from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Apr 19 11:24:30 2002 g3JGOT415256 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:24:29 -0500 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:24:25 -0400 , Subject: RE: Four string binder FILETIME=[AB87F0E0:01C1E7BE] g3JGOT415257 I noticed that Harry Boyd's howto article on rodbuilding has a nice picture of a hybrid smithwick/four string binder. It uses a smithwick drive system to run a the two binder wheels. Eliminates the need for a drive belt. I've been meaning to ask him about it. I can't remember the URL, but maybeHarry will jump in here. Bill . At 10:28 AM 4/19/2002 -0500, Lamberson, William R. wrote: "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas- microsoft-com:office:word">I put a motor from a garage sale sewing machine on my Smithwick binder. The on/off and speed is controlled with a foot pedal thus allows me to have both hands free for holding the section while binding. I took the tensioner from the sewing machine as well. The total cost of the binder was less than $20, a bit of copper tubing, a pulley, and the sewing machine. Bill Lamberson-----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:23 AM Subject: Sv: Four string binder Make a Smithwick binder - low tech, low cost, high efficiency regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message -----From: Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:36 PMSubject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders. Better than Garrison Binder? Don t bother? Are they too hard to use? All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from aebersold@ou.edu Fri Apr 19 11:35:11 2002 g3JGZB416325 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:35:11 -0500 id ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:35:10 -0500 LambersonW@missouri.edu,carstenjorgensen@mail.dk, rcristant@isgtransport.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Four string binder g3JGZB416326 I think last week someone posted a URL for a commercial version of asmithwick/four string with foot pedal and motor. I didn't go to the site,lost the URL and therefore can't quote a price. Anyone still have the URL?-d -----Original Message----- rcristant@isgtransport.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Four string binder I noticed that Harry Boyd's howto article on rodbuilding has a nice picture of a hybrid smithwick/four string binder. It uses a smithwick drive system to run a the two binder wheels. Eliminates the need for a drive belt. I've been meaning to ask him about it. I can't remember the URL, but maybeHarry will jump in here. Bill . At 10:28 AM 4/19/2002 -0500, Lamberson, William R. wrote: "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w ="urn:schemas- microsoft-com:office:word">I put a motor from a garage sale sewing machine on my Smithwick binder. The on/off and speed is controlled with a foot pedal thus allows me to have both hands free for holding the section while binding. I took the tensioner from the sewing machine as well. The total cost of the binder was less than $20, a bit of copper tubing, a pulley, and the sewing machine. Bill Lamberson-----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:23 AM Subject: Sv: Four string binder Make a Smithwick binder - low tech, low cost, high efficiency regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message -----From: Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:36 PMSubject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four stringbinders. Better than Garrison Binder? Don t bother? Are they too hard to use? All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 19 13:50:37 2002 g3JIob423128 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:50:37 -0500 g3JIoUtx024382 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:50:31 -0400 Subject: Payne 98 and ferrules All, I was looking over the taper archives on the canerod site, and wastrying to guesstimate the correct ferrule size for this rod. Since it's a 7' rod, half the length would be 42". The dimensions at the 40" station is .171, and the dimension at the 45" station is .194. Doing a little fuzzy math, I figured the 42" station would have a dimension of .1802. An 11/64's ferrule would fit over a dimension of .1719, while a 12/64's ferrule would fit over a dimension of .1875 (rounded). Did I figure something wrong, such as the placement of the ferrule, or if not, which ferrule would I use, and at what dimension would I put it? Thanks,Mark from Jkvseafood@aol.com Fri Apr 19 14:42:18 2002 g3JJgH426350 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:42:17 -0500 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:42:07 - Subject: where is everyone? i have stopped receiving mail from list? whats up? john from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Fri Apr 19 15:25:51 2002 g3JKPp428478 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:25:51 -0500 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:25:45 -0700 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:25:45 GMT Subject: Quad making questions FILETIME=[62B404E0:01C1E7E0] Folks-Ready to go on the quads, I think. Got my forms, modified my Medved style beveller to cut 90's, have appropriate router bits to make jigs, etc..but I do have a couple of questions. How do I set my forms? I have a new 90* point for the depth guage, but I didn't even think about setting the depth!? Where can I find some tapers of poven quads? And, did someone come upwith an accurate convrsion factor for altering hex tapers? .92 was it? Anything else you folks can offer would be much appreciated. Can't wait to start, just looking for some insight before I do. TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from rextutor@yahoo.com Fri Apr 19 15:33:55 2002 g3JKXr429063 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:33:53 -0500 19 Apr 2002 13:33:37 PDT Subject: Re: Quad making questions I just restored an Edwards quatrate 35 - 8 ft 5 wt -really great rod. I took the tapers on points andflats.--- Eamon Lee wrote: Folks-Ready to go on the quads, I think. Got my forms,modified my Medved style beveller to cut 90's, have appropriate router bitsto make jigs, etc..but I do have a couple of questions. How do I set my forms? I have a new 90* point forthe depth guage, but I didn't even think about setting the depth!? Where can I find some tapers of poven quads? And,did someone come up with an accurate convrsion factor for altering hextapers? .92 was it? Anything else you folks can offer would be muchappreciated. Can't wait to start, just looking for some insight before I do. TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:http://messenger.msn.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Apr 19 15:41:04 2002 g3JKf3429674 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:41:03 - Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:41:01 +0100 Subject: Re: Quad making questions The conversion factor is usually takem as Hex 'flat to flat'x 0.93 =Quad 'flat to flat'........some people use 0.92 but what theheck........It's a square world.........Paul Eamon Lee wrote: Folks-Ready to go on the quads, I think. Got my forms, modified my Medved stylebeveller to cut 90's, have appropriate router bits to make jigs, etc..but Ido have a couple of questions. How do I set my forms? I have a new 90* point for the depth guage, but Ididn't even think about setting the depth!? Where can I find some tapers of poven quads? And, did someone come upwithan accurate convrsion factor for altering hex tapers? .92 was it? Anything else you folks can offer would be much appreciated. Can't wait tostart, just looking for some insight before I do. TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Apr 19 15:43:14 2002 g3JKhD429980 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:43:13 -0500 g3JKhAO28134; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:43:10 -0500 Subject: Re: where is everyone? I got you here.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jkvseafood@aol.com wrote: i have stopped receiving mail from list? whats up? john from sats@gte.net Fri Apr 19 16:10:45 2002 g3JLAi401664 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:10:44 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ;Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:10:39 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, PETA is like the radical IRA side of the animal welfare movement. Own a pet? In PETA's eyes you're a slave owner...---------------------------- Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 19 16:26:37 2002 g3JLQa402572 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:26:36 -0500 Subject: RE: Quad making questions Eamon:1. How do you like the forms?2. I use a point tapered to 45* and I use the .707 factor. Once I get mytaper, I multiply the quad taper by that to get the proper figures for theforms. I have a chart that will tell you the conversion from tips as smallas .050 to butts around .350 (way too big for most quads!)Let me know if you (or anyone else) wants it.My best advice is to use the available Edwards tapers to start. Then work from there to get what you want. I recommend the Irgens article from THEBEST OF THE PLANING FORM.Bob PS., I never sent you the tapers I have? Shame on me. -----Original Message----- Subject: Quad making questions Folks-Ready to go on the quads, I think. Got my forms, modified my Medved stylebeveller to cut 90's, have appropriate router bits to make jigs, etc..but Ido have a couple of questions. How do I set my forms? I have a new 90* point for the depth guage, but Ididn't even think about setting the depth!? Where can I find some tapers of poven quads? And, did someone come upwithan accurate convrsion factor for altering hex tapers? .92 was it? Anything else you folks can offer would be much appreciated. Can't wait tostart, just looking for some insight before I do. TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from Dennishigham@cs.com Fri Apr 19 16:29:29 2002 g3JLTS402880 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Mark,Hal Bacon should jump in here... the original Payne 98 had a step down ferrule. The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You can averagethe #'s out and use a 12/64 ferrule. 11/64th cuts a little too much bamboo off IMHO. Al Medved and I have talked about this and Al has made a couple of 98's with 12/64 ferrules that cast really well. Dennis Mark, down ferrule. The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You canaverage the #'s out and use a 12/64 ferrule. 11/64th cuts a little too much made a couple of 98's with 12/64 ferrules that cast really well. Dennis from bob@mcelvain.org Fri Apr 19 17:16:34 2002 g3JMGX405069 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:16:33 -0500 Apr 2002 16:17:40 -0600 MDT Subject: New Lathe The Homier truck show was recently in town and I bought one of their 7x12lathes. Basically the same as the Harbor Freight 7x10 but with a longerbed. I also purchased a 4-jaw chuck from Harbor Freight. The spindle ofthe Homier and their 3-jaw chuck has 3 mounting holes, the 4-jaw chuck has4 holes. Homier doesn't sell accessories like 4-jaw chucks. Both chucksrely on the spindle flange mating with a receiving cutout on the chuck forconcentricity, the mounting holes on the spindle flange are clearance andaccuracy is not important. The YAHOO mini-lathe group talks about using transfer studs to mark theflange and then drilling three additional holes with a hand drill. Theyalso talk about flange being hard to drill and eating drill bits? I guessthey drill the flange with a hand drill? A template that would hang on the spindle flange and allow me center punchthe three new holes seems more reasonable but I have never seen a"template" discussed. Does anyone have any ideas. Thanks in advance. Bob McElvain from rextutor@yahoo.com Fri Apr 19 17:59:25 2002 g3JMxO406825 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:59:24 -0500 19 Apr 2002 15:59:19 PDT Subject: Re: where is everyone? I think fishing season started ? --- Tony Spezio wrote: I got you here.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jkvseafood@aol.com wrote: i have stopped receiving mail from list? whats up? john __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 19 19:16:57 2002 g3K0Gu408587 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:16:57 -0500 g3K0Gptx001980 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:16:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Dennis, out there had built one using a non-stepdown ferrule, and could confirmthe 12/64 size.MarkAt 05:27 PM 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote:Mark, down ferrule. The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You canaverage the #'s out and use a 12/64 ferrule. 11/64th cuts a little too has made a couple of 98's with 12/64 ferrules that cast really well. Dennis from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 19 19:22:12 2002 g3K0MB408894 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:22:11 -0500 g3K0M5tx002087 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:22:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Hi Bob, Yup, I have a lathe. Do they make a reamer that sizes out to 11.5/64ths...... ;^} Just kidding. I'd thought about making my own ferrules, but have never done it before. I'll dig out the Power Fibers issue that details turning ferrules out of round stock. Anybody have a good place to buy NS round stock? Thanks,Mark At 05:05 PM 4/19/02 -0500, you wrote: Mark,Got a lathe? If so, then cut a set half way in between... a set of11.5/64ths ferrules would fit in right at .180... That way you won't betaking too much off the butt nor will you be leaving too much on the flats.The other option is to make a set of stepdowns so that the ID of the femalefits the butt section and the ID of the male fits the tip section. In otherwords, make a set of step down 12's but bore the female 12 and the male11.Leave the ferrule wall on the female the full thickness, and the maleferrule will have a little thicker than normal wall.You should have a hair more diameter to work with than you figured.Your actual ferrule cut should be at 42 3/8" for a standard ferrule with a3/4" male to female fit. can probably with that slope, figure on a coupleof more thousands.R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com----- Original Message -----From: "Mark Wendt" Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:50 PMSubject: Payne 98 and ferrules All, I was looking over the taper archives on the canerod site, and was tryingto guesstimate the correct ferrule size for this rod. Since it's a 7' rod, half the length would be 42". The dimensions at the 40" station is .171,and the dimension at the 45" station is .194. Doing a little fuzzy math, I figured the 42" station would have a dimension of .1802. An 11/64'sferrule would fit over a dimension of .1719, while a 12/64's ferrule wouldfit over a dimension of .1875 (rounded). Did I figure something wrong,such as the placement of the ferrule, or if not, which ferrule would I use, and at what dimension would I put it? Thanks,Mark from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 19 19:32:52 2002 g3K0Wp409294 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:32:51 -0500 g3K0Wktx002330 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:32:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules All, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. The Final Answer IS: 12/64ths - Dah Dah Dah Daaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! (that was supposed to be a royal trumpet call....) Mark At 07:37 PM 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote: Go with a #12 ferrule. Marty Mark Wendt wrote: All, I was looking over the taper archives on the canerod site, and was trying to guesstimate the correct ferrule size for this rod. Since it's a 7' rod, half the length would be 42". The dimensions at the 40" station is .171, and the dimension at the 45" station is .194.Doing a little fuzzy math, I figured the 42" station would have a dimension of .1802. An 11/64's ferrule would fit over a dimension of .1719, while a 12/64's ferrule would fit over a dimension of .1875 (rounded). Did I figure something wrong, such as the placement of the ferrule, or if not, which ferrule would I use, and at what dimension would I put it? Thanks,Mark from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Fri Apr 19 19:55:53 2002 g3K0tp409957 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:55:52 -0500 id g3K0tnO27472; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:55:49 +0900 (JST) id JAA16677; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:55:48 +0900 (JST) "Rodmakers" Subject: Tamegi, Japanese straightening tool Jason, et al So, what I want more about are those Tameki straightening tools. Jason On 4/18/02 2:12 PM, "chad wigham" wrote: http://homepage1.nifty.com/yukihiro-rod/englishindex.html Tamegi or Tameki is a wood bar which has groove(s) near the end.Tame=straightening, ki or gi=wood, in Japanese. Usually we pronounce it asTamegi. Tamegi is not a kind of automatic straightening tool like clothes iron,but the tool which is widely used in making a round non-splited cane rod,Wasao (means Japanese rod). the groove ofof Tamegi, and un-bend it by leverging by Tamegi. The groove is put 45 (orless) degrees against theside of the wood bar. So you have only to shake (glasp) the rod and Tamegitogether to lever.I am also using Tamegi to straightening hex rod. To make, prepare 1"x1"x1' wood bar and make a 45 degree groove on it, nearto the end like below;The groove's depth is half the block. Though this is not the same to realTamegi but it is easierto use for hex blank from my experience._____| ||//||/ || || | for the right handed Heating system of Japanese rod making is usually charcoal heat and its ultrared beam from the burned charcoal. Two blocks on charcoal oven is to focus the heatcoming out ofthe oven. The reason why we use this kind of heating system, is that all ofJapanesebamboos are very oily or juicy. We need wipe out such oil repeatedly whileheating at initial stage. The pictures on his web almost come from Japaneserod making system. Round files are used to shave the inside of round canestomake the wall thickness thinner. I am glad to bring and show you Tamegi at Grayrock as I join the gatheringthis June. Max ========================================Max Satoh - Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod Makerhttp://maxrod.tripod.comMax Rod Craft - Online Shophttp://m-r- c.tripod.com======================================== from sfario@hotmail.com Fri Apr 19 20:10:12 2002 g3K1AB410446 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:10:11 -0500 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:10:02 -0700 Subject: Wrapping FILETIME=[1980D320:01C1E808] This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides =beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A This is probably a dumb question but = tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than = nylon?ThanksBob A from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 19 20:14:58 2002 g3K1Ev411038 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:14:57 -0500 Subject: Quad Info Posted Hi Ron and list:I posted the tapers and the chart to the website so that I would not have tosend attachments to anyone and cause trouble. If you woudl like a copy in MSWord, I will send that on your request. The tapers are only those that wereposted to the list or that were available on the web or submitted to PowerFibers. There are no living makers included who sent tapers to me inconfidence.The tapers are here: http://www.powerfibers.com/quadtapers.htmThe conversion chart is here: http://www.powerfibers.com/chart.htmNow, here is how the chart works. Take the full rod section diameter andlook it up on the chart. It will give you the planing form setting which ishalf the rod section times .707. I find this easier to use. I seem to thinkin terms of rod sections not planing form settings when I am ponderingtapers.You will notice that since I rounded off to 3 digits that one planing formsetting covers three section diameter readings. I know this, and I usuallyadd .0005 for the top number and subtract .0005 for the smallest. Solooking at the chart you see that a .058, .059, and 060 tip would have aplaning form setting of .021 (half .058 times .707 rounded to the nearest.001). I would set the forms to .0205 for .058, .021 for .059, and to .0215 Am I fudging it, yes. Do you think I can actually set both sides of theforms to .0005...? I am not that crazy to think I could. I am doing thisusing a 45* tip on my depth gauge and using the information from JohnIrgensin THE BEST OF THE PLANING FORM. If I am doing it wrong, I must say...therods cannot tell the difference. They are coming out pretty close to thenumbers I am shooting for, which are...cross sectional sameness at anygivenpoint, intended line weight, and intended action.I hope to start using an Excel spreadsheet and drill rods to set the formsin the near future. Actually, I hope to start using the mill for quads soon,that is if I can remember to order the right cutters!!!!Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Quad making questions I would like to look at that chart if you don't mind!Thank You Ron from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 19 20:35:01 2002 g3K1Z0412059 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:35:00 -0500 19 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0400 Subject: RE: Wrapping Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is anyreal advantage. Silk does look very nice.I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wrapsopaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish.I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think itis significantly better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry,I could not resist).-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: Wrapping This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real = Silk does look very nice. rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like = like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use = any way except for saleability. cents...go ahead and flame away boys! the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could = resist). AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: =WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but = tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather = nylon?ThanksBob =A from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 19 20:43:50 2002 g3K1hn412498 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:43:49 -0500 Subject: RE: Payne 98 and ferrules Mark, try Sheffield's knife supply in FL. They have info posted on the web.They are very reasonable. I paid 3-4 dollars a foot for 1/4" barstock a fewyears back. Making ferrules is fun (but probably not that cost effective anymore with the Rush River ferrules being so nice and so affordable.)Bob Maulucci -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Anybody have agood place to buy NS round stock? Thanks,Mark from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Fri Apr 19 20:54:29 2002 g3K1sR412949 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:54:27 -0500 id g3K1sPO01633; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:54:25 +0900 (JST) id KAA18699; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:54:25 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Wrapping Bob A, et al, This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A I think it's a good and important question.Though I'm not sure if I reply to your question correctly... In our traditional Japanese rod making, making a round and hollow cane rod,the reason of using silk thread was for strength. Though we may not need such strong binding force of wrapping on snakeguidefoot,but we had needed rather stronger force of wrapping at the portion ofconnection and power wraps on hollowed blank. Power wrap was needed onsplit cane rods when we did not have so strong adhesives in old days. In old days, we used urushi varnish. When urushi is absorbed inside thesilk thread,if we use strong type of urushi, the varnish will weaken the thread.So, it was important to use weaker type of urushi on the wraps. Have you taken off your wrap which is varnished with epoxy andpolyurethane?Was the thread coming out as thread? Probably No. Thread may be takenoutlike as a thin sheet of plastic.When we use such chemical varnish, even silk thread is changed to theplastic by absorbing varnish andhas lost the original strength as thread.It is al right while it is used on snake wrapps where no such strong bindingforce is needed. So does nylon thread, probably even cotton for snake foot. Max ========================================Max Satoh - Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod Makerhttp://maxrod.tripod.comMax Rod Craft - Online Shophttp://m-r- c.tripod.com======================================== from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Apr 19 21:41:52 2002 g3K2fp414451 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:41:51 -0500 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:41:40 - Subject: Re: Wrapping Dont you think the silk lays flatter and makes for a smoother transition to the flat when varnishing? This leads me to a question: how do you guys smooth out the ridge ofvarnish that builds up between the ferrule wrap and the ferrule? When I mask offthe ferrule with magic tape a "wall" of varnish builds up, when I pull the tape off the varnish ridge stands out like a you know what in a punch bowl. Any suggestions here? Kyle In a message dated 04/19/2002 6:36:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is anyreal advantage. Silk does look very nice.I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wrapsopaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think itis significantly better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!BobPS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry,I could not resist).-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real advantage. Silk does look very nice. I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Robert AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? DIV> Thanks Bob A----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return- Path: Received: from rly-xe04.mx.aol.com (rly-xe04.mail.aol.com Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:36:28 -0500 rly- Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:35:20 -0400 g3K1ZI412106; [64. g3K1Z0412059 19 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0400 From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:23:29 -0400Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Apr 19 21:50:29 2002 g3K2oR414833 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:50:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Wrapping There are likely other reasons but the main one that I can see (the other being looks) is if you bind in nylon the bamboo will dent from the nylon trying to return to it's relaxed state after being stretched during the binding process, just like nylon on a fishing reel spool after fighting a really big fish. Tony At 07:09 PM 4/19/02 -0600, Robert Amundson wrote: This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Apr 19 22:17:18 2002 g3K3HH415485 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:17:17 -0500 (216.160.237.84) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429 Subject: Re: Tamegi, Japanese straightening tool Rodmakers Thanks Max. I appreciate the explanation. Sounds like a pretty slick tool.Would maybe be very useful for removing sets in finished rods. Jason On 4/19/02 6:55 PM, "Max Satoh" wrote: Jason, et al So, what I want more about are those Tameki straightening tools. Jason On 4/18/02 2:12 PM, "chad wigham" wrote: http://homepage1.nifty.com/yukihiro-rod/englishindex.html Tamegi or Tameki is a wood bar which has groove(s) near the end.Tame=straightening, ki or gi=wood, in Japanese. Usually we pronounce it asTamegi. Tamegi is not a kind of automatic straightening tool like clothes iron,but the tool which is widely used in making a round non-splited cane rod,Wasao (means Japanese rod). the groove ofof Tamegi, and un-bend it by leverging by Tamegi. The groove is put 45 (orless) degrees against theside of the wood bar. So you have only to shake (glasp) the rod and Tamegitogether to lever.I am also using Tamegi to straightening hex rod. To make, prepare 1"x1"x1' wood bar and make a 45 degree groove on it,nearto the end like below;The groove's depth is half the block. Though this is not the same to realTamegi but it is easierto use for hex blank from my experience._____| ||//||/ || || | for the right handed Heating system of Japanese rod making is usually charcoal heat and itsultrared beam from the burned charcoal. Two blocks on charcoal oven is to focus theheatcoming out ofthe oven. The reason why we use this kind of heating system, is that all ofJapanesebamboos are very oily or juicy. We need wipe out such oil repeatedly whileheating at initial stage. The pictures on his web almost come from Japaneserod making system. Round files are used to shave the inside of roundcanestomake the wall thickness thinner. I am glad to bring and show you Tamegi at Grayrock as I join the gatheringthis June. Max ========================================Max Satoh - Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod Makerhttp://maxrod.tripod.comMax Rod Craft - Online Shophttp://m-r- c.tripod.com======================================== from bennetts@cybermesa.com Fri Apr 19 22:25:45 2002 g3K3Pi415930 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:25:44 -0500 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:25:41 -0600 Subject: Fw: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Subject: Fw: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 OK, this should take you right to the rod : =www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/leonard/myst8.html This is whereJohn =Channer told me to find it so I'm assuming it is the correct one. Is it = Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Hi Scott: On W>C> list of tapers, which one is the Mystery rod, I have =been trhying to find that out myself.Lew ldboyko@cpinternet.com Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 I found the "Mystery Rod" specs on the Rodmakers site, = Scott Subject: RE: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 OK, you guys have me hooked. Got a taper for this rod? I'd like =to see the graph on it, and might just have to make one. Thanks Regards -- TAM @font-face { font-family: SimSun;}@font-face { font-family: Tahoma;}@font-face { font-family: Arial Black;}@font-face { font-family: \@SimSun;}P.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT- DECORATION: underline}A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}P { FONT- FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in;=MARGIN- RIGHT: 0in}SPAN.EmailStyle18 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} From:C. = Bennett Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:21 PMSubject: Fw: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 From:C. = Bennett Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:11 PMSubject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 OK, this should take you right to the =rod : www.c= This is where John Channer told me to find it so I'm assuming it is the = Scott ----- Original Message ----- boyko Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = AMSubject: Re: Cattanach Rod = 8052 ----- Original Message ----- Scott Bennett Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, April 18, = PMSubject: Re: Cattanach Rod = 8052 I found the "Mystery Rod" specs on = Rodmakers site, www.canerod.com/rodmakers/= Scott ----- Original Message ----- = Miller, Troy fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sent: Thursday, April 18, = AMSubject: RE: Cattanach Rod = 8052 OK, you = Thanks -- TAM from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Apr 19 22:40:21 2002 g3K3eK416445 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:40:20 -0500 ([209.179.146.1] helo=computer) id 16yljC-0007G2-00; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:39:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made right and adjust right it will give =no twist and no problems. Built mine for less then $25 Adam Subject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders. =Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? =All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert CleanCleanDocumentEmail =0=0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in =1.25in; mso- header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; =mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow- orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text- underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT- DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: =personal- compose; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-bidi- font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made = adjust right it will give no twist and no problems. Built mine for less = $25 Adam ----- Original Message ----- Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = AMSubject: Four string =binder Hello all, I am = advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Apr 19 23:23:03 2002 g3K4N2417386 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 23:23:02 -0500 Sat, 20 Apr 2002 04:22:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Four string binder Adam,I agree, there is nothing wrong with a Garrison Binder unless you try =to use to much weight. Try using 12oz - 24oz weight max depending on =what size strips you are binding and you won't have twist.Don Subject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made right and adjust right it will give =no twist and no problems. Built mine for less then $25 Adam Subject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders. =Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? =All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert CleanCleanDocumentEmail =0=0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in =1.25in; mso- header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; =mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow- orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text- underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT- DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: =personal- compose; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-bidi- font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Adam,I agree, there is nothing wrong with a = twist.Don From:Adam= ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 8:37 PMSubject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made = adjust right it will give no twist and no problems. Built mine for less = $25 Adam ----- Original Message ----- Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = AMSubject: Four string =binder Hello all, I am = advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Apr 20 02:11:25 2002 g3K7BO420080 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:11:25 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:11:19 -0700 Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:11:18 GMT Subject: Re: Wrapping FILETIME=[91D7C9F0:01C1E83A] There is no reason to use silk other than personal preference and tradition. Nylon will go clear just as silk does. Nylon works better for preserved wraps since the changes in varnish and laquer. White shellac gives a different look to the silk that can be attractive. It is increasingly difficult to obtain 2/0 nylon to wrap fly rods these days which is a significant point in obtaing nice looking wraps with nylon. As to flat wraps, the recent Pearsalls craze wraps just as round as any nylon. Like many things recently there seems to be the 'bamboo correct' way to build a rod that has no basis in fact or function. As there are many more talented amateur makers (less than a dozen sales a year) than proffesionals the dictated standards are being driven by builders with virtualy unlimited time to expend on each rod. Great if someone wants the resulting work of art but a tough break if someone wants to buy a cane rod to try one out for three digits. Use what you want to in other words.A.J. From: "Robert Amundson" Subject: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:09:54 -0600 This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Apr 20 02:21:34 2002 g3K7LY420442 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:21:34 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:21:28 -0700 Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:21:28 GMT Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules FILETIME=[FCE8E340:01C1E83B] Most of the classic rod tapers had a 'drop' over the ferrules. It made the action feel crisp and lively. If I had to guess it had a 12/64, about .186-.190 at the butt ferrule and .172-.176 at the tip ferrule. Step(leonard patent) ferrules do not actually change diameters from the male to the female unless made that way. Apparently almost no one uses them anymoreand there seems to be alot of misinformation about how they are constructed. Swiss ferrules are easy to make, easy to fit to the cane, strong and not very damn elegant. Please refer to earlier post about runaway 'cane correctness'.A.J. From: Mark Wendt Subject: Payne 98 and ferrulesDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:50:30 -0400 All, I was looking over the taper archives on the canerod site, and was tryingto guesstimate the correct ferrule size for this rod. Since it's a 7' rod,half the length would be 42". The dimensions at the 40" station is .171,and the dimension at the 45" station is .194. Doing a little fuzzy math, Ifigured the 42" station would have a dimension of .1802. An 11/64'sferrule would fit over a dimension of .1719, while a 12/64's ferrule wouldfit over a dimension of .1875 (rounded). Did I figure something wrong,such as the placement of the ferrule, or if not, which ferrule would I use,and at what dimension would I put it? Thanks,Mark _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from channer@frontier.net Sat Apr 20 06:49:44 2002 g3KBnh425339 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 06:49:43 - for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 05:49:46 - Subject: Re: Fw: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 yes Scott, that's the one.john from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sat Apr 20 07:10:00 2002 g3KC9x425739 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:09:59 - g3KC9ptx015955 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:09:52 - Subject: RE: Wrapping At 09:23 PM 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote:Stubbornessand self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any realadvantage. Silk does look very nice. I do all the rods I keep formyself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like them like that.It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks forcustomer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think it is significantly betterin any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead andflame away boys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk ornylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could notresist). beauty of having a wife who works at Victoria's Secret....... Mark from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 20 07:56:24 2002 g3KCuO426330 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:56:24 - Subject: rodmakers recipients rodmakers =recipients from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 20 08:06:25 2002 g3KD6P426650 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:06:25 - Subject: Re: Wrapping Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Wrapping This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 08:18:47 2002 g3KDIk427450 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:18:46 -0500 helo=default) id 16yulG-0005SS-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:18:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Wrapping Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely toopractical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lowermodulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased powercurve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it'sprofile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that noone can proveotherwise. >>8^? M-D Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 08:25:31 2002 g3KDPU427912 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:25:30 -0500 helo=default) id 16yurn-0006Ca-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:25:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Steve, Please allow me to avail myself of the opportunity to publicly castigate = Excuse me, but how long have you been on the List? Don't you know that =all Listproc commands have to be sent to Listproc@wugate.wustl.edu . I =bet you, like many others, not only didn't save the little intro page =that was sent you upon subscribing to the List, but you probably never =read it. If you had you might remember that not only were the commands =to be sent to the addy above, but that the information which you seek is =obtained with the command REVIEW RODMAKERS. Well, this should certainly serve as a warning to others who might =innocently, but ignorantly, post commands to the List. Not only that, =but perhaps they'll be unable to ever unsubscribe and remain stuck in =List Limbo for all Eternity, much as have those who found themselves =forever locked into Bamboo Joe's Cyber-Hell. Now, before anyone gets all bent over this, realize that Steve and I =know each other, and Steve knows I'm just messing with him, so go have =another cup of coffee and relax. (I don't think I need any more coffee =this morning.) >>8^=DE M-D rodmakers recipients Steve, Please allow me toavail = mercy. Excuse me, but howlong = Listproc@wugate.wustl.edu&n= that was sent you upon subscribing to the List, but you probably never = the command REVIEW RODMAKERS. Well, this should = a warning to others who might innocently, but ignorantly, post commands = List. Not only that, but perhaps they'll be unable to ever unsubscribe = remain stuck in List Limbo for all Eternity, much as have those who = themselves forever locked into Bamboo Joe's =Cyber-Hell. Now, before anyonegets = messing with him, so go have another cup of coffee and relax. (I don't = M-D ----- Original Message ----- Steve Trauthwein Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 = AM recipients from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sat Apr 20 08:36:00 2002 g3KDZx428998 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:35:59 - Subject: Re: Wrapping Yeah! I always just let my taste guide me. I like silk. I also like BuschBeer and pork rinds. No accounting for taste. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping There is no reason to use silk other than personal preference and tradition. Nylon will go clear just as silk does. Nylon works better for preservedwraps since the changes in varnish and laquer. White shellac gives adifferent look to the silk that can be attractive. It is increasinglydifficult to obtain 2/0 nylon to wrap fly rods these days which is asignificant point in obtaing nice looking wraps with nylon. As to flatwraps, the recent Pearsalls craze wraps just as round as any nylon. Likemany things recently there seems to be the 'bamboo correct' way to buildarod that has no basis in fact or function. As there are many more talentedamateur makers (less than a dozen sales a year) than proffesionals thedictated standards are being driven by builders with virtualy unlimited time to expend on each rod. Great if someone wants the resulting work of art but a tough break if someone wants to buy a cane rod to try one out for threedigits. Use what you want to in other words.A.J. From: "Robert Amundson" Subject: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:09:54 -0600 This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from lblove@omniglobal.net Sat Apr 20 08:39:17 2002 g3KDdG429255 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:39:16 - 0000 (12.162.144.79) Subject: Re: Wrapping --=====_10193100386334=_ Because if you dont use silk somebody will get the water hose outand spray you and your cagemates down. just kiddingBrad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/19/02 at 7:09 PM Robert Amundson wrote:This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides=beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A --=====_10193100386334=_ Because if you dont use silk somebody will get the water hoseout just kiddingBrad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********On 4/19/02 at 7:09 PM Robert Amundsonwrote: This is probably a dumb question but couldanyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A --=====_10193100386334=_-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Apr 20 08:51:40 2002 g3KDpb429842 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:51:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Wrapping The theory of Young's modules is based on seeing the dents left in a re wrap I once did that came to me with with nylon wraps.The wraps were very long and an ugly colour and the guy wanted the wraps shorter than they were. There were dents in the bamboo where the wrapswere so the silk needed to be wrapped to the same length as the nylon to cover these.It's no problem I guess but it does mean if you ever do a re wrap it has to at least cove the original wraps, again no big deal. The fishing spool part of the theory comes from catching some Samson fish on an ABU 7500 and not trailing the line and re winding it on the boat ride home. Two week later the line was a mass of crinkled and useless 25lb mono.Lesson, if you get too sea sick to look after your mono line after a fishing trip use Spider Wire or maybe silk??. Tony Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly rod /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sat Apr 20 08:54:13 2002 g3KDsC400089 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:54:12 - g3KDs5tx018053 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:54:06 - Subject: RE: Wrapping Yeah, I get some nifty, uh, toys......mark At 09:39 AM 4/20/02 -0400, you wrote:Whoa!Lucky man! -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Mark WendtSent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:11 AM Subject: RE: Wrapping At 09:23 PM 4/19/02 -0400, youwrote:Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that thereis any real advantage. Silk does look very nice. I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep thewraps opaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat,and fish. I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...Idon't think it is significantly better in any way except forsaleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame awayboys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer.(Sorry, I could not resist). the beauty of having a wife who works at Victoria'sSecret....... Mark from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Apr 20 09:01:06 2002 g3KE15400437 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:01:05 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules There are Leonard style ferrules available from Bailey Woods (CSE) which are very beautiful very functional and quite expensive. They also save a lot of hassle in doing replacements in restorations and allow using old tapers without modification. No commercial interest . . .-Doug At 07:21 AM 4/20/2002 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: Most of the classic rod tapers had a 'drop' over the ferrules. It made the action feel crisp and lively. If I had to guess it had a 12/64, about .186-.190 at the butt ferrule and .172-.176 at the tip ferrule. Step(leonard patent) ferrules do not actually change diameters from the male to the female unless made that way. Apparently almost no one uses them anymore and there seems to be alot of misinformation about howthey are constructed. Swiss ferrules are easy to make, easy to fit to the cane, strong and not very damn elegant. Please refer to earlier post about runaway 'cane correctness'.A.J. _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 20 09:07:12 2002 g3KE7A400911 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:07:11 - Subject: Re: Wrapping Kyle, I never try to mask off this area when varnishing the wrap. In fact, as Ibuild the finish, I allow a few coats to form a minute "ramp" between thewrap and the metal. After the wraps are finished, I varnish the entire rodincluding the ferrules, and this smooths out the transition. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping Dont you think the silk lays flatter and makes for a smoother transition to the flat when varnishing? This leads me to a question: how do you guys smooth out the ridge of varnish that builds up between the ferrule wrap and the ferrule? When I mask off the ferrule with magic tape a "wall" of varnish builds up, when I pull the tape off the varnish ridge stands out like a you know what in a punch bowl. Any suggestions here? Kyle from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 20 09:08:45 2002 g3KE8i401171 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:08:45 - Subject: Re: Four string binder Adam, True, but it's death on quads. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made right and adjust right it will give notwist and no problems. Built mine for less then $25 Adam----- Original Message -----From: Robert Cristant Subject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders.Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? Allopinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 20 09:15:43 2002 g3KEFg401662 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:15:42 -0500 ;Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:15:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah I am trying to furl leaders, and it is a distraction...at least that's =my excuse and I'm sticking with it. Steve Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:20 AM Steve, Please allow me to avail myself of the opportunity to publicly = Excuse me, but how long have you been on the List? Don't you know that =all Listproc commands have to be sent to Listproc@wugate.wustl.edu . I =bet you, like many others........., Yeah, Yeah, Yeah I am trying to furl leaders, and it is = distraction...at least that's my excuse and I'm sticking with =it. Steve ----- Original Message ----- Jojo =DeLancier group Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 = AMSubject: Re: Steve, Please allow me to = mercy. Excuse me, but howlong = sent to Listproc@wugate.wustl.edu&n= others........., from rextutor@yahoo.com Sat Apr 20 09:24:40 2002 g3KEOd402097 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:24:39 - 20 Apr 2002 07:24:38 PDT Subject: Re: Wrapping KyleEven if I wrap a ferrule , I occasionally get a wall/ring of varnish on the ferrule, too, but not always.My belief is that the varnish is too thick when thathappens. I always pull tape after 24 hour of drying. Ican easily remove varnish under or touching tape withalcohol on rag. The varnish has some pliability and isstill mildly workable. At about 48 hours I have tobuff off ,with the dremmel, any varnish on metal. Good Luck --- KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Dont you think the silk lays flatter and makes for asmoother transition to the flat when varnishing? This leads me to a question: how do you guys smoothout the ridge of varnish that builds up between the ferrule wrap and theferrule? When I mask off the ferrule with magic tape a "wall" of varnish buildsup, when I pull the tape off the varnish ridge stands out like a you knowwhat in a punch bowl. Any suggestions here? Kyle In a message dated 04/19/2002 6:36:28 PM PacificDaylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real advantage. Silk does look very nice.I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think it is significantly better in any way except for saleability. My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!BobPS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Robert Amundson Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? ThanksBob ATransitional//EN"> name=GENERATOR> Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real advantage. Silk does look very nice. I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks it is significantly better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys! Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">align=left>-----Original Message- ----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Robert AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? > DIV> Thanks Bob A ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-xe04.mx.aol.com (rly-xe04.mail.aol.com MAILINXE13-0419213628; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:36:28 -0500Received: from wugate.wustl.edu MAILRELAYINXE47-0419213520; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:35:20 -0400 g3K1ZI412106; [64. g3K1Z0412059 Messaging Server 4.15 19 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0400 From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:23:29 -0400Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from rextutor@yahoo.com Sat Apr 20 09:29:22 2002 g3KETL402389 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:29:21 - 20 Apr 2002 07:29:21 PDT Subject: Re: Wrapping rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I agree with Mr Thamer. I have seen guys swear theycan tell the difference between beers as well as nylon/ silk. I think alot of makers use nylon as it iseasier to deal with and let people admire the wrapsand think what they will. --- Allen Thramer wrote: There is no reason to use silk other than personalpreference and tradition. Nylon will go clear just as silk does. Nylon worksbetter for preserved wraps since the changes in varnish and laquer. Whiteshellac gives a different look to the silk that can be attractive.It is increasingly difficult to obtain 2/0 nylon to wrap fly rods thesedays which is a significant point in obtaing nice looking wraps withnylon. As to flat wraps, the recent Pearsalls craze wraps just asround as any nylon. Like many things recently there seems to be the 'bamboocorrect' way to build a rod that has no basis in fact or function. As thereare many more talented amateur makers (less than a dozen sales a year) thanproffesionals the dictated standards are being driven by builders withvirtualy unlimited time to expend on each rod. Great if someone wants theresulting work of art but a tough break if someone wants to buy a cane rod totry one out for three digits. Use what you want to in other words.A.J. From: "Robert Amundson" Subject: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:09:54 -0600 This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? ThanksBob A _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 20 09:30:55 2002 g3KEUs402699 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:30:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Wrapping MD, But, of course--as every schoolboy knows! This theory actually goes back toan ancient Yangtze discovery whereby the sinues of cricket legs were lashedtogether with silk to form crossbows. Silk wraps were found to be superioreven to graphite-impregnated epoxy. Oh yes, graphite existed in 5th cent.BC too--formed by charring strips of bamboo taken from Nunley's oven. Ohyes, Nunley was there! Indisputable and time-tested, this theory of silk wraps remains responsible they will not cast a line of ANY sort. :>) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice "Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity (Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly rod due to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during the casting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can prove otherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from robertgkope@attbi.com Sat Apr 20 10:15:38 2002 g3KFFb403851 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:15:37 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 15:15:31 +0000 , Subject: Re: Four string binder Really? I'm surprised to hear that. I built a PMQ recently and bound itwith a Garrison style binder (actually my imitation of Al Bellinger'sbinder), with no problems. You also have to realize that the tip of a PMQlooks about like the tip of a standard slotted screwdriver blade when youbind it because you plane the width after binding. What's the problem witha standard 4-strip quad? Do the corners get destroyed? -- Robert----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Four string binder Adam, True, but it's death on quads. Cheers, Bill from caneman@clnk.com Sat Apr 20 10:57:02 2002 g3KFv1404774 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:57:01 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Wrapping Kyle, I don't use masking tape on the ferrule, I use Scotch tape. It issuper thin and the ridge is very low that way. Can polish it off in aheartbeat with a little 2000 grit and touch it up with Finesse-It II polishand she's clean as a whistle. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping Dont you think the silk lays flatter and makes for a smoother transition to the flat when varnishing? This leads me to a question: how do you guys smooth out the ridge of varnish that builds up between the ferrule wrap and the ferrule? When I mask off the ferrule with magic tape a "wall" of varnish builds up, when I pull the tape off the varnish ridge stands out like a you know what in a punch bowl. Any suggestions here? Kyle In a message dated 04/19/2002 6:36:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,bob@downandacross.com writes: Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real advantage. Silk does look very nice.I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wrapsopaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think it is significantly better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: Wrapping This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A Stubbornessand self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any realadvantage.Silk does look very nice. I do all therods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like themlike that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks better inany way except for saleability.My twocents...go ahead and flame away boys!Bob PS. Now ifthe wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000002px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">-----Original Message- ----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Robert AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: Wrapping This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? > DIV> Thanks Bob A ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xe04.mx.aol.com (rly-xe04.mail.aol.com 0419213628; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:36:28 -0500 by rly- 0419213520; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:35:20 -0400 g3K1ZI412106; [64. g3K1Z0412059 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0400 From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:23:29 -0400Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Apr 20 10:59:17 2002 g3KFxF405040 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:59:15 -0500 helo=oemcomputer) id 16yxGZ-0006sj-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:59:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Wrapping Beer for Breakfast again?, eh boys? Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping MD, But, of course--as every schoolboy knows! This theory actually goes back to an ancient Yangtze discovery whereby the sinues of cricket legs were lashed together with silk to form crossbows. Silk wraps were found to be superior even to graphite-impregnated epoxy. Oh yes, graphite existed in 5th cent.BC too--formed by charring strips of bamboo taken from Nunley's oven. Ohyes, Nunley was there! Indisputable and time-tested, this theory of silk wraps remains responsible they will not cast a line of ANY sort. :>) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 9:13 AMSubject: Re: Wrapping Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice "Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity (Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly rod due to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during the casting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can prove otherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generate some theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from lblove@omniglobal.net Sat Apr 20 14:02:19 2002 g3KJ2I409381 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:02:18 - 0000 (12.162.144.79) Subject: virus alert hey everyone,heads up just got a virus alarm from a message from the list from one ZamBamBoo@aol.comwhich contained the "W32/klezgen@MM" virusDont open it , just delete the thing... Brad from bennetts@cybermesa.com Sat Apr 20 16:30:14 2002 g3KLUC412357 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 16:30:13 - Subject: Re: Router Bit Order I think we should each send $15 to David. Scott ----- Original Message ----- "WilhelmRG" ; "Tim Wilhelm";"Adam Vigil" ; "David Smith" ;"Shaffer" ; "Doug Sandberg";"Bob McElvain" ; "Dave LeClair" ;"LeeKoeser" ; "Rich Jezioro" ;"RobertHolder" ; "Tom Hardy" ; "NedGuyette" ; "Richard Green" ; "Rick Funcik"; "Tim Doughty"; "Lowell Davis" ;"Rick Crenshaw" ; "Onis Cogburn"; "GSBerenson" ; "HarryBoyd"; "C. Scott Bennett" ;"Jskve" Subject: Router Bit Order Hello I've sent out your bit order today. You should be receiving them shortly.Hopefully, they are what you anticipated. David Rinker819 Washington Crossing Rd.Newtown, PA 18940USABest regardsDavid Rinker from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Apr 20 19:51:59 2002 g3L0pw418234 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:51:58 - Subject: Re: Router Bit Order In a message dated 04/20/2002 5:30:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bennetts@cybermesa.com writes: Good idea. Dave check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site- http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Notsooyoun@aol.com Sat Apr 20 20:14:13 2002 g3L1ED418712 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:14:13 - for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:14:04 - Subject: Guide Spacing and Size I built a 7'6" 3 piece rod for 5 weight line and need help determining the number, and spacing for the guides. I have tried to down load hexrod, but it doesn't seem to want to download. Is there instructions for the use of the hexrod program? ThanksGary from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Sat Apr 20 20:20:51 2002 g3L1Ko419040 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:20:50 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 16z5zw-0003rs-00; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:18:36 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: Router Bit Order --------------000705040504040101060906 I agree...lots of time involved in this....... C. Scott Bennett wrote: I think we should each send $15 to David. Scott ----- Original Message -----From: "David Rinker" "WilhelmRG" ; "Tim Wilhelm";"Adam Vigil" ; "David Smith" ;"Shaffer" ; "Doug Sandberg";"Bob McElvain" ; "Dave LeClair" ;"LeeKoeser" ; "Rich Jezioro" ;"RobertHolder" ; "Tom Hardy" ; "NedGuyette" ; "Richard Green" ; "Rick Funcik"; "Tim Doughty"; "Lowell Davis" ;"Rick Crenshaw" ; "Onis Cogburn"; "GSBerenson" ; "HarryBoyd"; "C. Scott Bennett" ;"Jskve" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:27 AMSubject: Router Bit Order Hello I've sent out your bit order today. You should be receiving them shortly.Hopefully, they are what you anticipated. David Rinker819 Washington Crossing Rd.Newtown, PA 18940USABest regardsDavid Rinker --------------000705040504040101060906 I agree...lots of time involved in this....... C. Scott Bennett wrote: I think we should each send $15 toDavid.Scott----- Original Message ----- From: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:27 AMSubject: Router BitOrder HelloI've sent out your bit order today. You should bereceiving them shortly.Hopefully, they are what youanticipated.Your total amount is $13.97 for 1 bit. Please forward your PA 18940USABest regardsDavid Rinker --------------000705040504040101060906-- from LambersonW@missouri.edu Sat Apr 20 20:31:14 2002 g3L1VD419380 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:31:13 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:31:08 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: Four string binder Thread-Topic: Four string binderThread-Index: AcHoflqyUAnTm7ZBTNKDWaocgMrs0wAVZ2pH "Adam Vigil" , , FILETIME=[363665D0:01C1E8D4] g3L1VE419381 Yes, the corners get destroyed. There is a key difference between the PMQand a four-strip quad. The four-strip quad has a very fragile 45 degree angleat the edge of each strip. The fibers peel off these edges very easily. Running them through a Garrison style binder rubs those edges on thesupports. The PMQ doesn't have the acute angles so aren't as likely to bedamaged. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Sat 4/20/2002 10:21 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Cc: Subject: Re: Four string binder Really? I'm surprised to hear that. I built a PMQ recently and bound it with a Garrison style binder (actually my imitation of Al Bellinger's binder), with no problems. You also have to realize that the tip of aPMQ looks about like the tip of a standard slotted screwdriver blade whenyou bind it because you plane the width after binding. What's the problemwith a standard 4-strip quad? Do the corners get destroyed? -- Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Subject: Re: Four string binder > Adam, >True, but it's death on quads. >Cheers, Bill > from LambersonW@missouri.edu Sat Apr 20 20:36:25 2002 g3L1aP419666 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:36:25 -0500 Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:36:21 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: Wrapping Thread-Topic: WrappingThread-Index: AcHobgbqBajra3oLRB2vm7Q1RFf/pgAZpdES FILETIME=[F0ECB500:01C1E8D4] g3L1aP419667 M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrappedintermediates increase the power as has recently been suggested, then theincreased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretch should result in afaster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measuredthem, we might even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Sat 4/20/2002 8:13 AM Cc: Subject: Re: Wrapping Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely toopractical, as is the advice "Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lowermodulus of elasticity (Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increasedpower curve in the bamboo fly rod due to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flattenit's profile during the casting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, andthat no one can prove otherwise. >>8^Az( M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generate some theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? Thanks Bob A from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 20:45:06 2002 g3L1j5420056 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:45:05 -0500 helo=default) id 16z6PX-0005bX-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:45:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Wrapping Bill, Let me know when you get the thousand rods done, and I'll see if I can't findsome people to helpyou wrap them. ;o) M-D M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrappedintermediates increase the poweras has recently been suggested, then the increased tightness of the nylonwrap due to its stretchshould result in a faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousandand measured them, wemight even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely toopractical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lowermodulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased powercurve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it'sprofile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that noone can proveotherwise. >>8^Az M-D Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from caneman@clnk.com Sat Apr 20 20:57:21 2002 g3L1vK420480 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:57:20 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Router Bit Order Hey, I think that's great! Especially since I ordered 4 bits from him! Ofcourse, I think he'd probably prefer that I send a bit more than $15! *S* Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Router Bit Order I think we should each send $15 to David. Scott ----- Original Message -----From: "David Rinker" "WilhelmRG" ; "Tim Wilhelm" ; "Adam Vigil" ; "David Smith" ;"Shaffer" ; "Doug Sandberg" ; "Bob McElvain" ; "Dave LeClair"; "Lee Koeser" ; "Rich Jezioro" ;"RobertHolder" ; "Tom Hardy" ; "NedGuyette" ; "Richard Green" ; "Rick Funcik"; "Tim Doughty"; "Lowell Davis";"Rick Crenshaw" ; "Onis Cogburn"; "GSBerenson" ; "HarryBoyd"; "C. Scott Bennett" ;"Jskve" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:27 AMSubject: Router Bit Order Hello I've sent out your bit order today. You should be receiving them shortly. Hopefully, they are what you anticipated. David Rinker819 Washington Crossing Rd.Newtown, PA 18940USABest regardsDavid Rinker from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 20:59:58 2002 g3L1xv420732 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:59:57 -0500 helo=default) id 16z6ds-0005ui-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:59:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Gary, First, place the stripper approximately two inches in front of your hand asyou would normally reach spacing chart. You canfind one on most rod companies web sites, or www.rec.com You'll probablyuse a total of 9 guides onthis rod, including the stripper. So, after you've taped the guides into thesuggested positiongiven by the chart, tie a string to the tiptop and run the fly line or otherstring through all theguides. Holding the butt end stationary and vertical to the ground, flex therod to 90Ÿ and used thestring tied to the tiptop to hold it in this position. Now take the fly line andpull it just so that it is snug. What you are trying to see here is the arc described by thefly line relative tothe natural curvature of the bent rod. The arc of the line should be as nearto the arc of the rodas possible. Adjust the guide spacings until this is has been achieved. M-D I built a 7'6" 3 piece rod for 5 weight line and need help determining thenumber, and spacing for the guides. I have tried to down load hexrod, but itdoesn't seem to want to download. Is there instructions for the use of thehexrod program?ThanksGary from beadman@mac.com Sat Apr 20 21:00:12 2002 g3L20A420822 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:00:11 - Apr Subject: RE: Wrapping g3L20B420825 On a solid core rod, the actual deformation of the rod (flattening during casting) would have to be so minuscule as to be undetectable... On a hollow core rod, such as a graphite rod, the circular cross section will definitely become oval, but in a solid core cane rod, the pith/fibers in the center prevent the deformation. As to the stiffening of the rod...stiffening is related to stress - the stiffer the rod, the lower the stress (with a given force) - but stress is highly dependent upon the distance of the outside "surface" (power fibers, normally) at any given point. When intermediate wraps are used, the outer surface is extended, which reduces the stress on lower layers, and the overall stress is reduced thereby on the cane. In other words, as I understand the theory, intermediate wraps will stiffen a rod, not because of their silk or nylon composition, but because it makes the rod "thicker" at that point. Only my opinion, and my attempt at understanding the theory...Claude At 8:36 PM -0500 , 4/20/02, Lamberson, William R. wrote about RE:Wrapping M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrapped intermediates increase the power as has recently been suggested, then the increased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretch should result in a faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measured them, we might even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can proveotherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from lblan@provide.net Sat Apr 20 21:35:04 2002 g3L2Z3421716 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:35:03 - for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:35:02 - Subject: Interesting Idea So there I was, browsing one of the woodworking forums. A fellow posted apic of a spalted birch bowl he had turned, along with the fact that it wasto soft to turn when he started working on it. Rather than toss it on thescrap pile he decided to try an experiment. He soaked the wood in a 50/50mixture of white glue and water for 24 hours, then microwaved it a couple oftimes to speed the drying. He stated that it firmed up enough to turneasily, and that a couple of cracks had "disappeared". Lovely bowl too...looked great. Larry Blan from bob@downandacross.com Sat Apr 20 21:40:34 2002 g3L2eX422014 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:40:34 - 20 Apr 2002 22:40:27 -0400 Subject: RE: Guide Spacing and Size Try this:http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/guide.html I have also been using Ray Gould's book for a starting point for spacingguides. Honestly, you need to get the rod out on the lawn and adjust untilyou feel the magic. As far as guides go, I would use 8 or 9 depending onhow fast the rod is. If it is parabolic feeling, I would have a few moreguides ala the Payne paras.Bob M. -----Original Message----- Notsooyoun@aol.com Subject: Guide Spacing and Size I built a 7'6" 3 piece rod for 5 weight line and need help determining thenumber, and spacing for the guides. I have tried to down loadhexrod, but itdoesn't seem to want to download. Is there instructions for the use of thehexrod program?ThanksGary from bob@downandacross.com Sat Apr 20 21:48:40 2002 g3L2md422364 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:48:39 - 20 Apr 2002 22:48:33 -0400 ,"Adam Vigil" , , Subject: RE: Four string binder g3L2me422365 I thought the PMQ were usually glued up with Pony clamps? I did one a longwhile back on the Hand Mill and I used the 1" clamps with good results.Unfortunately, the rod was terrible.I think with quads, it works best if the blank never rotates. That's onereason I like the JW wrapper for doing guide wraps. The quads just do notwant to rotate when being bound for glueing or when you wrap guides on. Ihave two 4 string binders and they both outperform the Garrison styledBellinger one for quads. I think the four stringers are finicky, but once set upproperly, they are the best thing for any configuration. I am going to build a Smithwick style binder to see if that is superior, beingless finicky to adjust one spool tension as opposed to 4. I do not mindwrapping twice. Has anyone used both to compare the 4 string vs theSmithwick?Bob -----Original Message----- R. rcristant@isgtransport.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Four string binder Yes, the corners get destroyed. There is a key difference between the PMQ and a four-strip quad. The four-strip quad has a very fragile 45 degree angle at the edge of each strip. The fibers peel off these edges very easily. Running them through a Garrison style binder rubs those edges on the supports. The PMQ doesn't have the acute angles so aren't as likely to be damaged. Bill Lamberson from dongreife@hotmail.com Sat Apr 20 21:50:57 2002 g3L2ou422611 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:50:56 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:50:47 -0700 HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 02:50:47 GMT Subject: Re: Interesting Idea FILETIME=[56E69E70:01C1E8DF] Nice trick Larry,, also could you post the URL of the wood working forum "Rodmakers" fellow posted a fact that it was toss it on the wood in a 50/50 microwaved it a couple of enough to turn Lovely bowl too... Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from homes-sold@attbi.com Sat Apr 20 22:47:52 2002 g3L3lp423936 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:47:51 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 03:47:35 +0000 , ,"Adam Vigil" , , Subject: Re: Four string binder I've often wondered why we got into 4 string binders in the first place, whynot 2 string binders? Wouldn't a 2 string offset the twisting action just aswell ? Anybody ever try one ? Don't get we wrong, usually I believe that if 1/4 stick of dynamite will doa good job, a whole stick would be better. A 2 string would be easier to setup and if you really wanted 4 strings, runit through twice. Also, if a 4 sting is that much better or that much moreof a gadget, why not a 6 string ? We could keep going until the strips looklike mummies. Back to my Vodka, Don from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Apr 20 22:51:21 2002 g3L3pJ424212 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:51:19 - Subject: RE: Wrapping g3L3pK424213 All anybody's got to do it try it and give it a go. Tony At 09:59 PM 4/20/02 -0400, Claude Freaner wrote: On a solid core rod, the actual deformation of the rod (flattening during casting) would have to be so minuscule as to be undetectable... On a hollow core rod, such as a graphite rod, the circular cross section will definitely become oval, but in a solid core cane rod, the pith/fibers in the center prevent the deformation. As to the stiffening of the rod...stiffening is related to stress - the stiffer the rod, the lower the stress (with a given force) - but stress is highly dependent upon the distance of the outside "surface" (power fibers, normally) at any given point. When intermediate wraps are used, the outer surface is extended, which reduces the stress on lower layers, and the overall stress is reduced thereby on the cane. In other words, as I understand the theory, intermediate wraps will stiffen a rod, not because of their silk or nylon composition, but because it makes the rod "thicker" at that point. Only my opinion, and my attempt at understanding the theory...Claude At 8:36 PM -0500 , 4/20/02, Lamberson, William R. wrote about RE:Wrapping M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrapped intermediates increase the power as has recently been suggested, thenthe increased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretch should result in a faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measured them, we might even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can proveotherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from lblan@provide.net Sat Apr 20 22:52:28 2002 g3L3qR424460 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:52:27 - for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:52:25 - Subject: RE: Interesting Idea Well M-D, so much for my supersecret, improved, modified, hand planed withaspecial silk/nylon mix, 'cause it is just better that way method. Note: this forum is a bit to well moderated for my tastes. If you postanything, read the rules first! As one example, Harry's Chrismas Missivewould be pulled, and Harry would receive a nasty note with big red letters. Once again, thank you Mike B, for being a tolerant Listmeister Bossman! http://www.wwforum.com/cgi-bin/forum_main/ptools2.cgi?read=364613 Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Interesting Idea Nice trick Larry,, also could you post the URL of the wood working forumyou mentioned? TIA Don Greife From: "Larry Blan" Subject: Interesting IdeaDate: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:36:38 -0400 So there I was, browsing one of the woodworking forums. A fellow posted apic of a spalted birch bowl he had turned, along with the fact that itwasto soft to turn when he started working on it. Rather than toss it on thescrap pile he decided to try an experiment. He soaked the wood in a 50/50mixture of white glue and water for 24 hours, then microwaved it a coupleoftimes to speed the drying. He stated that it firmed up enough to turneasily, and that a couple of cracks had "disappeared". Lovely bowl too...looked great. Larry Blan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. M-D, so much for my supersecret, improved, modified, hand planed with a = this forum is a bit to well moderated for my tastes. If you post = and Harry would receive a nasty note with big red =letters. Bossman! http://www.wwforum.com/cgi- Larry Blan GreifeSent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:51 lblan@provide.netCc: = Re: Interesting Idea Nice trick Larry,, also could you post the URL of the wood working = = Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 23:38:55 2002 g3L4cs425415 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:38:54 -0500 helo=default) id 16z97d-0007HI-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:38:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Four string binder My experience with the 4-string is that it will put a long curve along thelength of the section,but that it induces very little, if any, twisting. The higher the tensions oneach thread the moredifficult it is to straighten, and the more pronounced is the long curve. I'vetried using only twostrings on the binder, each adjusted to light and even tension, and found thatthe long curve wasstill there, but that there was considerable induced twisting that was verydifficult to remove. Thelong curve, however was more easily removed. Makes sense to me.Part of the problem stems from the section being able to rotate aroundinside the tubes, due to therotation of the revolving heads, but it does not roll around. I think a shorterdistance from thetiptops, that the thread exits from, to the section itself would help toreduce the size of theserotations. The tips really get a working over as the size of the sectiondiminishes. M-D I've often wondered why we got into 4 string binders in the first place, whynot 2 string binders? Wouldn't a 2 string offset the twisting action just aswell ? Anybody ever try one ? Don't get we wrong, usually I believe that if 1/4 stick of dynamite will doa good job, a whole stick would be better. A 2 string would be easier to setup and if you really wanted 4 strings, runit through twice. Also, if a 4 sting is that much better or that much moreof a gadget, why not a 6 string ? We could keep going until the strips looklike mummies. Back to my Vodka, Don from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 23:51:14 2002 g3L4pD425787 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:51:13 -0500 helo=default) id 16z9Je-0002dj-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:51:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Wrapping Well, Bill's offered to make a thousand rods, and I told him I'd help him to findpeople to helpwith the wrapping, so sounds like we've got a good start on the mother of allbamboo experiments. M-D All anybody's got to do it try it and give it a go. Tony At 09:59 PM 4/20/02 -0400, Claude Freaner wrote: On a solid core rod, the actual deformation of the rod (flattening duringcasting) would have to be so minuscule as to be undetectable... On ahollow core rod, such as a graphite rod, the circular cross section willdefinitely become oval, but in a solid core cane rod, the pith/fibers inthe center prevent the deformation. As to the stiffening of therod...stiffening is related to stress - the stiffer the rod, the lower thestress (with a given force) - but stress is highly dependent upon thedistance of the outside "surface" (power fibers, normally) at any givenpoint. When intermediate wraps are used, the outer surface is extended,which reduces the stress on lower layers, and the overall stress isreduced thereby on the cane. In other words, as I understand the theory,intermediate wraps will stiffen a rod, not because of their silk or nyloncomposition, but because it makes the rod "thicker" at that point. Only my opinion, and my attempt at understanding the theory...Claude At 8:36 PM -0500 , 4/20/02, Lamberson, William R. wrote about RE:Wrapping M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrappedintermediates increase the power as has recently been suggested, thentheincreased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretch should result ina faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measuredthem, we might even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post wasentirely too practical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due toit's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to anincreased power curve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts toflatten it's profile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is thecase, and that no one can proveotherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we couldgeneratesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why,besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 21 00:00:15 2002 g3L50E426202 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:00:14 -0500 helo=default) id 16z9SO-0002gn-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:00:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Four string binder Isn't there an ad in the latest issue of Power Fibers? M-D I think last week someone posted a URL for a commercial version of asmithwick/four string with foot pedal and motor. I didn't go to the site,lost the URL and therefore can't quote a price. Anyone still have the URL?-d from shane_person@telus.net Sun Apr 21 01:46:47 2002 g3L6kj427790 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:46:45 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:46:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Four string binder Here is the URL for the binder in Power Fibers:http://www2.arkansas.net/~flyflinger/binder.htm You will also want to check out his "Wanton Mental Abandon" page athttp://www2.arkansas.net/~flyflinger/WMA.htm Shane Jojo DeLancier wrote: Isn't there an ad in the latest issue of Power Fibers? M-D From: "Aebersold, Dennis R" I think last week someone posted a URL for a commercial version of asmithwick/four string with foot pedal and motor. I didn't go to the site,lost the URL and therefore can't quote a price. Anyone still have the URL?-d from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Apr 21 05:14:38 2002 g3LAEa402182 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 05:14:36 - g3LAEJn23573; Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Gary Depends how precise you want to be. Something that works is this :(a) three key guide positions, one about 4" to 4 1/2 " below the tiptop, oneon the butt pretty close to the ferrule, and the stripper a bit less thanhalf way from the butt cap to the ferrule(b) you need one more guide between the stripper and the ferrule guide(c) position them coming back down the tip, each one spaced a bit furtherthan the last(d) put them on with masking tape, try them out, and buggerise about withthem until they're right. What amazes me is that if you do it this way just as a try thing, you willbe SOOO close to the theoretical arrangement that you will be veryimpressed with tradition after all, and you will start wrapping withGossamer and all that stuff, leading inevitably to a life of dissipation andof eccentricity! : > Peter from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 21 07:04:54 2002 g3LC4q403130 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:04:53 - (authenticated) Sun, 21 Apr 2002 05:04:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Peter, I'm not positive, but wasn't the rod in question a 3 pc. rod? If so, thentwo snake guides plus a stripper are going to be a little much for the buttsection. With two piece rods your suggested approach works quite well. Butthree piece rods require different tactics. I agree with the uppermost guide somewhere between 4"-5", but prefer tohavea guide on the mid-section right at the female ferrule. Seems like lots ofolder rods were subject to breakage there (Heddons, for instance), and alittleadditional thread there at least makes me feel better. But on these threepiecerods, I often place a guide right at the mid-section male ferrule as well,leaving only the stripper guide on the butt section. If I'm mistaken and this is a two piece rod, forgive my forgetfulness, Harry Peter McKean wrote: Depends how precise you want to be. Something that works is this :(a) three key guide positions, one about 4" to 4 1/2 " below the tiptop, oneon the butt pretty close to the ferrule, and the stripper a bit less thanhalf way from the butt cap to the ferrule(b) you need one more guide between the stripper and the ferrule guide(c) position them coming back down the tip, each one spaced a bit furtherthan the last(d) put them on with masking tape, try them out, and buggerise about withthem until they're right. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Apr 21 07:25:54 2002 g3LCPq403468 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:25:52 - g3LCPjn45708; Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Gary Ooooops! Sorry. Didn't read it well enough. Thanks Harry. Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 21 07:53:07 2002 g3LCr5403978 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:53:05 - Subject: Attn all Green heart nuts Ok all you green heard fishing rod nuts out there I was just at the John Norris web site looking for a spool for this bloody Hardy Princess reel some people seem to think is something other than a cruel joke and noticed in their used gear section quite a few green heart rods. I didn't look too closely because I'm not into this stuff but there was I think a spey rod made for when men were men and didn't know better and a few spinning type rods too.Worth a look if you're interested. The site is:www.JohnNorris.co.uk It's all very proper so mind your manners and have fun. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from aport@si.rr.com Sun Apr 21 08:08:05 2002 g3LD84404306 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:08:04 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:07:51 -0400 , ,,"Adam Vigil" , , Subject: Re: Four string binder Plus.... with a six string, you can play the Blues if it doesn't do a =good job! Ba-DUM-dum, cheeaah ( drum AND cymbals)Art Plus.... with a six string, you can play the Blues if it doesn't do = job! Ba-DUM-dum, cheeaah ( drum AND cymbals)Art from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Apr 21 08:10:37 2002 g3LDAa404733 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:10:36 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:10:34 +0100 Subject: Re: Attn all Green heart nuts Tony,Do you have to tell EVERYONE where I gets me used gearfrom...........Paul Tony Young wrote: Ok all you green heard fishing rod nuts out there I was just at the JohnNorris web site looking for a spool for this bloody Hardy Princess reelsome people seem to think is something other than a cruel joke and noticedin their used gear section quite a few green heart rods. I didn't look tooclosely because I'm not into this stuff but there was I think a spey rodmade for when men were men and didn't know better and a few spinningtyperods too.Worth a look if you're interested. The site is:www.JohnNorris.co.uk It's all very proper so mind your manners and have fun. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 21 08:32:47 2002 g3LDWj405549 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:32:46 - Subject: Re: Attn all Green heart nuts Sorry...It's not too bad a place though is it?It's worth looking at for the fly tying gear too. The prices all include VAT which I *THINK* is 17.5% but don't quote me on that. In any case the prices are in pounds so you reduce the price by the VAT which is at least 15% as it's going to be exported then add post and convert into yourcurrency.They have pretty good prices on the Leeda reels. I personally like the Dragon Fly reel. It's a nice weight and nice to use. Tony At 02:07 PM 4/21/02 +0100, paul.blakley wrote: Tony,Do you have to tell EVERYONE where I gets me used gearfrom...........Paul Tony Young wrote: Ok all you green heard fishing rod nuts out there I was just at the JohnNorris web site looking for a spool for this bloody Hardy Princess reelsome people seem to think is something other than a cruel joke andnoticedin their used gear section quite a few green heart rods. I didn't look tooclosely because I'm not into this stuff but there was I think a spey rodmade for when men were men and didn't know better and a few spinningtyperods too.Worth a look if you're interested. The site is:www.JohnNorris.co.uk It's all very proper so mind your manners and have fun. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Apr 21 08:44:17 2002 g3LDiB405934 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:44:11 - ([209.179.146.120] helo=computer) id 16zHdR-0000r6-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 06:44:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Wrapping AJ, Bingo! We amateur makers do spend a lot of time on a rod contemplatingwhatis to be done, checking every wrap and double checking and triple checkingall the fine details. It is the journey I guess that a lot of use like. WhenI finish a rod I start on another not because I need another rod but becauseit is another journey. I think all makers need to stop being followers andstart being innovators. We all know how to do it the "Traditional way" ofyears gone by it is time to make some advances and stir things up. I likereading stuff John Bokstrom came up with or Bill Warra, now there are 2guyswho understood rodmakeing is an adventure and not a fanatical fringe cult offollow the leader. The funny things is the Leonard, Payne, Powell were allinnovators not followers. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping There is no reason to use silk other than personal preference and tradition. Nylon will go clear just as silk does. Nylon works better for preservedwraps since the changes in varnish and laquer. White shellac gives adifferent look to the silk that can be attractive. It is increasinglydifficult to obtain 2/0 nylon to wrap fly rods these days which is asignificant point in obtaing nice looking wraps with nylon. As to flatwraps, the recent Pearsalls craze wraps just as round as any nylon. Likemany things recently there seems to be the 'bamboo correct' way to buildarod that has no basis in fact or function. As there are many more talentedamateur makers (less than a dozen sales a year) than proffesionals thedictated standards are being driven by builders with virtualy unlimited time to expend on each rod. Great if someone wants the resulting work of art but a tough break if someone wants to buy a cane rod to try one out for threedigits. Use what you want to in other words.A.J. From: "Robert Amundson" Subject: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:09:54 -0600 This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 21 08:51:05 2002 g3LDp5406218 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:51:05 - (authenticated) Sun, 21 Apr 2002 06:51:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Wrapping Adam, You might add AJ himself to that list of folks who think outside the box!Some of his ideas show lots of creativity and uncommon amounts of commonsense. Harry Adam Vigil wrote: I think all makers need to stop being followers andstart being innovators. We all know how to do it the "Traditional way" ofyears gone by it is time to make some advances and stir things up. I likereading stuff John Bokstrom came up with or Bill Warra, now there are 2guyswho understood rodmakeing is an adventure and not a fanatical fringe cultoffollow the leader. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Apr 21 09:20:29 2002 g3LEKO406910 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:20:24 - ([209.179.146.15] helo=computer) id 16zICG-00053k-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:20:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Four string binder Bill, Alas Quads elude me. I like them alright but have not caught the fever yet.When I do I will be cranking out a smithwick binder thats for sure! Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Four string binder Adam, True, but it's death on quads. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 11:37 PMSubject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made right and adjust right it will give no twist and no problems. Built mine for less then $25 Adam----- Original Message -----From: Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:36 AMSubject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders.Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sun Apr 21 09:36:23 2002 g3LEaM407367 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:36:22 - g3LEaGtx016823 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:36:17 - Subject: Re: Wrapping g3LEaN407368 Bill/M-D, I'd be glad to volunteer to wrap a few of those...... Provided I get to test cast them on one of the local trout streams..... Mark At 08:43 PM 4/20/02 -0500, you wrote: Bill, Let me know when you get the thousand rods done, and I'll see if I can't find some people to helpyou wrap them. ;o) M-D From: "Lamberson, William R." M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrapped intermediates increase the poweras has recently been suggested, then the increased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretchshould result in a faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measured them, wemight even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can proveotherwise. >>8^Az M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Apr 21 09:51:07 2002 g3LEp6407909 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:51:06 -0500 ([209.179.146.15] helo=computer) id 16zIg5-0002uK-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:50:58 -0700 Subject: Innovators not Imitators Commentary:(do not freak out) Many rodmakers are imitators and some are innovators. I guess we must =first imitate to gain the skills and experience. I think it would be a =good source of knowledge if we could share some of the innovations we = have learned from others or have come up with ourselves. While there are =many it would be nice if we could each post a couple of things and give =credit to those who deserve it. I think John Bokstrom came up with a lot of ideas. I use his slotted =base dial indicator method for measuring strip dimensions while laying =in the form.Another innovator was Montagne. While I have my own opinions about his =rods it is clearly evident this guy beat his own path when it came to =rodmaking(ugly reels seats though). EC Powell has to be one of my favorite inovators. A california boy =cranking out rods that are unique unto himself. Alright it is Sunday and time to sound off on rodmaking Adam P.S. Patty yourself on the back and spouting off is highly encouraged! Commentary:(do not freak =out) Many rodmakers are imitators andsome = innovators. I guess we must first imitate to gain the skills and = think it would be a good source of knowledge if we could share some of = innovations we have learned from others or have come up with ourselves. = there are many it would be nice if we could each post a couple of things = give credit to those who deserve it. I think John Bokstrom came up with a = dimensions while laying in the form.Another innovator was Montagne. WhileI = opinions about his rods it is clearly evident this guy beat his own path = came to rodmaking(ugly reels seats though). EC Powell has to be one of my favorite= california boy cranking out rods that are unique unto =himself. Alright it is Sunday and time to sound = rodmaking Adam P.S. Patty yourself on the back and = highly encouraged! from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 21 10:15:52 2002 g3LFFp408489 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:15:51 - (authenticated) Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:15:47 -0700 Subject: Re: Oven fan Dick, Thanks for the suggestion. Our HVAC man stopped by the Church thismorning,just to make sure that all 18 air conditioning units were working correctly. Iasked him about the draft fans, and he promised to look to see if he had onelying around. He agreed that fan would be perfect for my needs. Finally lethimget on with his business of checking out our AC units. Thanks for the suggestion,Harry Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: These assemblies are made to handle the heat of the combustion productsfromthe furnace which can be close to 400ŸF. One of these assemblies would beperfect for what you are considering. Might ask a dealer if he has replacedfan 80%+ furnace lately and if you can have the old Induced Draft FanAssembly. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sun Apr 21 12:31:04 2002 g3LHV3410608 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:31:03 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:31:02 PDT Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) LambersonW@missouri.edu, robertgkope@attbi.com, harms1@pa.net,Adam Vigil , rcristant@isgtransport.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I've been giving some thought to the 2-string ideamyself and am trying to come up with a way to use aSmithwick binder with an inner wheel that wouldcounter rotate inside the larger wheel. Any ideas?Would this require gearing of some kind? Bill W. --- Don Schneider wrote: I've often wondered why we got into 4 string bindersin the first place, whynot 2 string binders? Wouldn't a 2 string offset thetwisting action just aswell ? Anybody ever try one ? Don't get we wrong, usually I believe that if 1/4stick of dynamite will doa good job, a whole stick would be better. A 2 string would be easier to setup and if youreally wanted 4 strings, runit through twice. Also, if a 4 sting is that muchbetter or that much moreof a gadget, why not a 6 string ? We could keepgoing until the strips looklike mummies. Back to my Vodka, Don __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sun Apr 21 12:35:06 2002 g3LHZ5410873 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:35:05 - "Don Schneider" , ,, ,"Adam Vigil" , , Subject: RE: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) HI Bill:See Chris Lucker's improved Milward Binder in THE BEST OF THE PLANINGFORM.Great design.Bob -----Original Message----- robertgkope@attbi.com; harms1@pa.net; Adam Vigil;rcristant@isgtransport.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) I've been giving some thought to the 2-string ideamyself and am trying to come up with a way to use aSmithwick binder with an inner wheel that wouldcounter rotate inside the larger wheel. Any ideas?Would this require gearing of some kind? Bill W. --- Don Schneider wrote: I've often wondered why we got into 4 string bindersin the first place, whynot 2 string binders? Wouldn't a 2 string offset thetwisting action just aswell ? Anybody ever try one ? Don't get we wrong, usually I believe that if 1/4stick of dynamite will doa good job, a whole stick would be better. A 2 string would be easier to setup and if youreally wanted 4 strings, runit through twice. Also, if a 4 sting is that muchbetter or that much moreof a gadget, why not a 6 string ? We could keepgoing until the strips looklike mummies. Back to my Vodka, Don __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from channer@frontier.net Sun Apr 21 12:49:58 2002 g3LHnw411406 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:49:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Adam;The true innovator was the guy who came up with splitting, shaping andglueing together multiple strips of bamboo to make a fishin pole out of.Not to detract from the many contributions since then, but lets notforget the guy who started it all.john Adam Vigil wrote: Commentary:(do not freak out) Many rodmakers are imitators and some are innovators. I guess we mustfirst imitate to gain the skills and experience. I think it would be agood source of knowledge if we could share some of the innovations wehave learned from others or have come up with ourselves. While thereare many it would be nice if we could each post a couple of things andgive credit to those who deserve it. I think John Bokstrom came up with a lot of ideas. I use his slottedbase dial indicator method for measuring strip dimensions while layingin the form.Another innovator was Montagne. While I have my own opinions about hisrods it is clearly evident this guy beat his own path when it came torodmaking(ugly reels seats though). EC Powell has to be one of my favorite inovators. A california boycranking out rods that are unique unto himself. Alright it is Sunday and time to sound off on rodmaking Adam P.S. Patty yourself on the back and spouting off is highly encouraged! from irish-george@chartermi.net Sun Apr 21 12:50:14 2002 g3LHoE411431 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:50:14 - 2002 13:50:13 -0400 Subject: test seems it takes more work to stay on this list than it does to build a =rod... seems it takes more work to stay on = it does to build a rod... from harms1@pa.net Sun Apr 21 13:14:07 2002 g3LIE6412307 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:14:06 - , Subject: Re: Four string binder Robert, Well, I can't imagine what your secret is, but when I wrap quads with myGarrison-type binder, I find the corners "banging" against my cradle- guides.This was especially bad with the butt sections and their larger flats. WhenI adjusted the weight on the drive-string tightly enough to bring the fourstrips together, the corners of the section would scrape dangerously on thecradles. And when I adjusted lightly enough to minimize thebump-bump- bumping, the strips showed glue lines. So the Smithwick binderwas the answer for me--it's worry-free and my sections come out perfectly. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Four string binder Really? I'm surprised to hear that. I built a PMQ recently and bound itwith a Garrison style binder (actually my imitation of Al Bellinger'sbinder), with no problems. You also have to realize that the tip of a PMQlooks about like the tip of a standard slotted screwdriver blade when youbind it because you plane the width after binding. What's the problem with a standard 4-strip quad? Do the corners get destroyed? -- Robert----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:04 AMSubject: Re: Four string binder Adam, True, but it's death on quads. Cheers, Bill from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Apr 21 13:52:38 2002 g3LIqb413627 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:52:37 -0500 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:52:30 -0400 Subject: flex-coat vs. varnish Hi guys!,Quick question. Has anyone ever placed an overcoat of varnish on top of flex-coat? I guess the real question is did it work?TIAMike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Apr 21 15:00:58 2002 g3LK0v414940 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:00:57 -0500 (InterMail vK.4.03.05.00 201-232-132 license180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish Hey Mike. I built that canoe on my website and put 5 coats of marine sparover the epoxy used to fiberglass it.It is recommended for that boat. Don'tknow about the chemical composition of flex/coat. Good luck, Randall G.www.rifflewaterrods.com----- Original Message ----- Subject: flex-coat vs. varnish Hi guys!,Quick question. Has anyone ever placed an overcoat of varnish on top offlex-coat? I guess the real question is did it work?TIAMike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from shane_person@telus.net Sun Apr 21 16:32:56 2002 g3LLWt417125 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:32:55 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:32:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Adam's post is right on Does anyone know for sure who the guy was thatstarted it all??Shane channer wrote: Adam;The true innovator was the guy who came up with splitting, shaping andglueing together multiple strips of bamboo to make a fishin pole out of.Not to detract from the many contributions since then, but lets notforget the guy who started it all.john Adam Vigil wrote: Commentary:(do not freak out) from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Sun Apr 21 16:34:51 2002 g3LLYo417355 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:34:50 - 0000 Subject: Hola de nuevo Hola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por mucho tiempo. Razones de fuerza=mayor. $$$$ :-)))). No tenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo . =Envio un saludo a todos. Alberto Hello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot of time. Act of God =reasons. $$$$: -)))). Not taenia acseso to internet. I am again. I ship = Hola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por mucho tiempo. Razones de = mayor. $$$$ :-)))). No tenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo . = saludo a todos. AlbertoHello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot of time. Act of God = $$$$: -)))). Not taenia acseso to internet. I am again. I ship a = all. Alberto from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Apr 21 16:35:35 2002 g3LLZY417540 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:35:35 -0500 (InterMail vK.4.03.05.00 201-232-132 license180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish The canoe is on my Contact info page(at the bottom). The links were a =little out of whack. Let me know if you can't find it, or if something =isn't working correctly. Thanks, Randall G. Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish OK Randall, to paraphrase Eye-GOR in Young Fronkensteeen, WHEREcanoe? =I've been all over your site and can't find it. I'll let you in on a =little secret though; if you hit the buttons at the bottom of the Shop =Shots, nuttin' happens ( you get blank pages).Laytah!Art The canoe is on my Contact infopage(at = bottom). The links were a little out of whack. Let me know if you can't = or if something isn't working correctly. Thanks, Randall G. ----- Original Message ----- Art =Port internet.com = Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. =varnish OK Randall, to paraphrase Eye-GOR in Young Fronkensteeen, = I've been all over your site and can't find it. I'll let you in on a = secret though; if you hit the buttons at the bottom of the Shop Shots, = happens ( you get blank pages).Laytah!Art from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sun Apr 21 16:37:14 2002 g3LLbD417810 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:37:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators I think it was Terry A.; or maybe George Gerke. Just ask them! Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Adam's post is right on Does anyone know for sure who the guy was thatstarted it all??Shane channer wrote: Adam;The true innovator was the guy who came up with splitting, shaping andglueing together multiple strips of bamboo to make a fishin pole out of.Not to detract from the many contributions since then, but lets notforget the guy who started it all.john Adam Vigil wrote: Commentary:(do not freak out) from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 21 17:13:21 2002 g3LMDK418725 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:13:20 -0500 helo=default) id 16zPa8-0008LG-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:13:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Hola de nuevo Alberto, Bienvenido de nuevo a la Lista. Estoy alegre que se ha regresado y que =se tiene aceso al Internet otra vez tambi=E9n. Espero que se tendr=E1 =m=E1s dinero en el futuro. ;o) M-D Alberto, Welcome back to the list. I'm glad that you have returned and that you =have access to the Internet again, too. I hope that you will have more =money in the future. ;o) M-D Subject: Hola de nuevo Hola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por mucho tiempo. Razones de =fuerza mayor. $$$$ :-)))). No tenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo =. Envio un saludo a todos. Alberto Hello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot of time. Act of God =reasons. $$$$: -)))). Not taenia acseso to internet. I am again. I ship = Alberto, Bienvenido de nuevo a= = ;o) M-D Alberto, Welcome back to thelist. = that you have returned and that you have access to the Internet again, = hope that you will have more money in the future. =;o) M-D ----- Original Message ----- Usman Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 = PMSubject: Hola de nuevo Hola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por mucho tiempo. Razones de = mayor. $$$$ :-)))). No tenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo . = saludo a todos. AlbertoHello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot of time. Act of God = $$$$: -)))). Not taenia acseso to internet. I am again. I ship a = all. Alberto from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Apr 21 17:16:29 2002 g3LMGS418992 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:16:28 -0500 (InterMail vK.4.03.05.03 201-232-132-103 license180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish I think the website is fixed now. If you can't get it let me know. =Randall G. Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:34 PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish The canoe is on my Contact info page(at the bottom). The links were a =little out of whack. Let me know if you can't find it, or if something =isn't working correctly. Thanks, Randall G. Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish OK Randall, to paraphrase Eye-GOR in Young Fronkensteeen, =WHEREcanoe? I've been all over your site and can't find it. I'll let you =in on a little secret though; if you hit the buttons at the bottom of =the Shop Shots, nuttin' happens ( you get blank pages).Laytah!Art I think the website is fixed now. If = it let me know. Randall G. ----- Original Message ----- Randall Gregory Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. =varnish The canoe is on my Contact info = bottom). The links were a little out of whack. Let me know if you = it, or if something isn't working correctly. Thanks, Randall =G. ----- Original Message ----- Art =Port internet.com = Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 = PM varnish OK Randall, to paraphrase Eye-GOR in Young Fronkensteeen, = I've been all over your site and can't find it. I'll let you in on a = secret though; if you hit the buttons at the bottom of the Shop = nuttin' happens ( you get blank pages).Laytah!Art from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sun Apr 21 17:29:22 2002 g3LMTL419465 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:29:21 -0500 Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:29:12 -0700 Subject: Re: flex-coat removal FILETIME=[F6903CC0:01C1E983] Through a serious error in judgement, I need to remove some guides thatwerecoated with flex-cote. I promise never to use it again. Does anyone have anytricks for getting it off the rods? I am using a scalpel, but it is goingsloowwwwllly... Jeff Schaeffer from hartzell@easystreet.com Sun Apr 21 17:56:52 2002 g3LMup420273 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:56:51 - g3LMukm17129 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:56:46 - Subject: Milbro rod All ,Had anyone heard of a "Milbro Bantam" bamboo spinning rod made inScotland? Any info would be appreciated.Ed Hartzell from dybam@oct.net Sun Apr 21 17:59:13 2002 g3LMxC420539 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:59:12 -0500 Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish Communications, Inc. My neighbor did that to his canoe and it weighed a ton. How much doesyour canoe weigh? When built mine I used redwood lath for ribs and windowscreen for backing over which I laid cloth and fiber glassed it. It onlyweighed 40 lbs. My big mistake was to use epoxy paint. It sheds color everytime you handle it.Mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish Hey Mike. I built that canoe on my website and put 5 coats of marine sparover the epoxy used to fiberglass it.It is recommended for that boat. Don't know about the chemical composition of flex/coat. Good luck, Randall G.www.rifflewaterrods.com----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:52 PMSubject: flex-coat vs. varnish Hi guys!,Quick question. Has anyone ever placed an overcoat of varnish on top offlex-coat? I guess the real question is did it work?TIAMike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from KyleDruey@aol.com Sun Apr 21 18:07:52 2002 g3LN7p420976 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:07:51 - for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:07:37 - Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) Bill, thats an interesting idea, but wouldn't that be just the same as a Milward binder? I like the Smithwick binder but the only minor difficulty so far is if you want to reverse the wrap. To do this you must feed the rod in the opposite direction. Normally, I pull the rod away from the tube as I warp, giving me one half of a criss-cross style wrap. To get the other side of the crossed wrap you feed the rod in to the tube and pull from the other end. The problem this creates for me is that the thread gets pulled inside the tube and sometimes breaks. I've polished the edge of the tube but it has not helped much. I'm thinking of putting some type of fitting on the front of the tube, maybe half of a copper sweat union fitting, so that the thread has a larger surface to run over. If you have any ideas on how to prevent thread breaking while wrapping in to the tube I would be interested in hearing you Kyle In a message dated 04/21/2002 10:35:55 AM Pacific Daylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: HI Bill:See Chris Lucker's improved Milward Binder in THE BEST OF THE PLANINGFORM.Great design.Bob-----Original Message----- Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:31 PM robertgkope@attbi.com; harms1@pa.net; Adam Vigil;rcristant@isgtransport.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea)I've been giving some thought to the 2-string ideamyself and am trying to come up with a way to use aSmithwick binder with an inner wheel that wouldcounter rotate inside the larger wheel. Any ideas?Would this require gearing of some kind?Bill W.--- Don Schneider wrote:I've often wondered why we got into 4 string bindersin the first place, whynot 2 string binders? Wouldn't a 2 string offset thetwisting action just aswell ? Anybody ever try one ? Don't get we wrong, usually I believe that if 1/4stick of dynamite will doa good job, a whole stick would be better. A 2 string would be easier to setup and if youreally wanted 4 strings, runit through twice. Also, if a 4 sting is that muchbetter or that much moreof a gadget, why not a 6 string ? We could keepgoing until the strips looklike mummies. Back to my Vodka, Don __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/----------------------- Headers --------------------- -----------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xf03.mx.aol.com (rly-xf03.mail.aol.com Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:35:55 -0400 rly- Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:35:35 -0400 g3LHZY410909; [64. g3LHZ5410873 From: "Bob Maulucci" "Don Schneider" , ,, ,"Adam Vigil" , , Subject: RE: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea)Date: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:34:50 -0400Message-ID: Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: NormalSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from aport@si.rr.com Sun Apr 21 18:10:47 2002 g3LNAk421273 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:10:46 -0500 Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:10:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Shane,Samuel Phillippe I believe, in Easton PA, though a Mr. Green in =Newark N.J.had a hand in it too, I think. I don't believe either of them =built a full cane rod, though. Just tips for rods built of other woods. =I think that was himself, H.L. Leonard!Art Shane, Green in Newark N.J.had a hand in it too, I think. I don't believe = them built a full cane rod, though. Just tips for rods built of other = think that was himself, H.L. Leonard!Art from KyleDruey@aol.com Sun Apr 21 18:10:52 2002 g3LNAq421282 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:10:52 -0500 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:10:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Hola de nuevo g3LNAq421283 Don't speak no Arkie on this here list... got it, Bubba. Good. [:)] Kyle In a message dated 04/21/2002 3:13:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jojo@ipa.net writes: Alberto,Bienvenido de nuevo a la Lista. Estoy alegre que se ha regresado y que se tiene aceso al Internet otra vez tambiÄn. Espero que se tendr ms dinero en el futuro. ;o)M-DAlberto,Welcome back to the list. I'm glad that you have returned and that you have access to the Internet again, too. I hope that you will have more money in the future. ;o)M-D----- Original Message ----- From: Alberto Usman Subject: Hola de nuevoHola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por mucho tiempo. Razones defuerza mayor. $$$$ :-)))). No tenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo . Envio un saludo a todos. AlbertoHello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot of time. Act of God reasons. $$$$: -)))). Not taenia acseso to internet. I am again. I ship a greeting to all. Alberto Alberto, Bienvenido de nuevo a la Lista. Estoy alegre que se ha regresado y que se tiene aceso al Internet otra vez tambiÄn. Espero que se tendr ms dinero en el futuro. ;o) M-D Alberto, Welcome back to the list. I'm glad that you have returned and that you have access to the Internet again, too. I hope that you will have more money in the future. ;o) M-D style="PADDING-RIGHT: 0px; PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">----- Original Message ----- style="BACKGROUND: #e4e4e4; FONT: 10pt arial; font-color: black">From: Alberto Usman Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:35 PMSubject: Hola de nuevo Hola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por mucho tiempo.Razones de fuerza mayor. $$$$ :-)))). No tenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo . Envio un saludo a todos. Alberto Hello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot of time. Act of God reasons. $$$$: -)))). Not taenia acseso to internet. I am again. I ship a greeting to all. Alberto ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xg04.mx.aol.com (rly-xg04.mail.aol.com Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:13:54 -0400 rly- Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:13:37 -0400 g3LMDc418767; Received: from tisch.mail.mindspring.net (tisch.mail.mindspring.net [207.69. g3LMDK418725 Received: from 208-149-40-138.dial-up.ipa.net ([208.149.40.138] helo=default) Message-ID: From: "Jojo DeLancier" References: Subject: Re: Hola de nuevoDate: Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:11:39 - 0500 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Apr 21 18:19:27 2002 g3LNJQ422170 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:19:26 -0500 21 Apr 2002 16:19:24 PDT Subject: Re: flex-coat removal rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu varnish striper will work - orange (BTX ?) let itreally soak in and scrape it gently with somethinglike a soft plastic card. I mean apply it thick, every10 minutes for 4-5 times and wait an hour.I have also use a razor to get under it and peel itoff in a ring , then unwind thread Good luck--- Jeff Schaeffer wrote: Through a serious error in judgement, I need toremove some guides that werecoated with flex-cote. I promise never to use itagain. Does anyone have anytricks for getting it off the rods? I am using ascalpel, but it is goingsloowwwwllly... Jeff Schaeffer __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Apr 21 18:22:44 2002 g3LNMh422491 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:22:43 -0500 21 Apr 2002 16:22:39 PDT Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish I had this customer who did his own wraps withflexcoat on a Shakespeare. There were bulb shapped andI told him I would redo them but he just wanted avarnish. The varnish I dipped on coated the rod andthe wraps. It seemed to work bt He has not fished thisrod so The varnish on the wraps may come off but Ithink it is ok. --- Troutgetter@aol.com wrote: Hi guys!,Quick question. Has anyone ever placed an overcoatof varnish on top of flex-coat? I guess the real question is did it work?TIAMike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Apr 21 18:26:22 2002 g3LNQL422802 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:26:21 -0500 21 Apr 2002 16:26:20 PDT Subject: Re: Hola de nuevo Alberto Tambien para yo. Bienvenido --- Jojo DeLancier wrote: Alberto, Bienvenido de nuevo a la Lista. Estoy alegre que seha regresado y que se tiene aceso al Internet otravez tambiÄn. Espero que se tendr ms dinero en elfuturo. ;o) M-D Alberto, Welcome back to the list. I'm glad that you havereturned and that you have access to the Internetagain, too. I hope that you will have more money inthe future. ;o) M-D ----- Original Message ----- From: Alberto Usman Subject: Hola de nuevo Hola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por muchotiempo. Razones de fuerza mayor. $$$$ :-)))). Notenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo . Envioun saludo a todos. Alberto Hello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot oftime. Act of God reasons. $$$$: -)))). Not taeniaacseso to internet. I am again. I ship a greeting toall. Alberto __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Apr 21 18:28:38 2002 g3LNSb423100 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:28:37 -0500 21 Apr 2002 16:28:36 PDT Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Maty Keane implies that Chinese were making split canerods long before English or Yanks did in the 1870s. --- Shane Person wrote: Adam's post is right on Does anyone know for surewho the guy was thatstarted it all??Shane channer wrote: Adam;The true innovator was the guy who came up with splitting, shaping and glueing together multiple strips of bamboo to make a fishin pole out of. Not to detract from the many contributions since then, but lets not forget the guy who started it all.john Adam Vigil wrote: Commentary:(do not freak out) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 21 18:52:45 2002 g3LNqj424270 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:52:45 -0500 helo=default) id 16zR8M-0002Ft-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:52:43 -0400 Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish Spar varnish over epoxy is the common method used in the making of woodenMackenzie-style driftboats, as well as kayak paddles, and I'm sure other boat-building. M-D My neighbor did that to his canoe and it weighed a ton. How much doesyour canoe weigh? When built mine I used redwood lath for ribs and windowscreen for backing over which I laid cloth and fiber glassed it. It onlyweighed 40 lbs. My big mistake was to use epoxy paint. It sheds color everytime you handle it.Mark Hey Mike. I built that canoe on my website and put 5 coats of marine sparover the epoxy used to fiberglass it.It is recommended for that boat. Don't know about the chemical composition of flex/coat. Good luck, Randall G.www.rifflewaterrods.com From: Hi guys!,Quick question. Has anyone ever placed an overcoat of varnish on top offlex-coat? I guess the real question is did it work?TIAMike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from dpvbkjs@tdstelme.net Sun Apr 21 19:03:44 2002 g3M03h424706 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:03:43 -0500 Subject: F.E. Thomas Browntone advice Everyone, Has anyone made either of the F.E. Thomas Bowntone tapers from G.Maurer's book ? What do you think ? TIADavid from flytyr@southshore.com Sun Apr 21 19:07:31 2002 g3M07U425027 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:07:30 -0500 g3M07NO19111; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:07:23 -0500 Subject: Re: flex-coat removal Jeff,Don't know if this can be done with bamboo or not.With G------, I have soaked the rod in White Vinegar. It don't take too long tosoften the Flex Coat.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jeff Schaeffer wrote: Through a serious error in judgement, I need to remove some guides thatwerecoated with flex-cote. I promise never to use it again. Does anyone haveanytricks for getting it off the rods? I am using a scalpel, but it is goingsloowwwwllly... Jeff Schaeffer from robertgkope@attbi.com Sun Apr 21 19:16:24 2002 g3M0GO425455 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 19:16:24 -0500 Mon, 22 Apr 2002 00:16:18 +0000 Subject: Re: flex-coat removal Jeff, I made the same mistake once. I don't remember who it was, but someone onthe list told me what to do - Cut the thread next to the guide foot on theinside of the wrap (the end of the wrap toward the loop of the guide). Onceyou get the thread started pull it out toward the guide. You can unwind thethread and pull it out from under the epoxy, leaving a tube of epoxy aroundthe rod over the guide foot. The thread will come out and separate theepoxy from the rod, and you can just peel the epoxy off. Then it's mucheasier to scrape off the ridges that are left in-between the windings of thewrap. My solution was to simply strip the rod down to bare wood, wrap it again,and then dip the finish over the wraps. -- Robert ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: flex-coat removal Through a serious error in judgement, I need to remove some guides that were coated with flex-cote. I promise never to use it again. Does anyone have any tricks for getting it off the rods? I am using a scalpel, but it is goingsloowwwwllly... Jeff Schaeffer from blitzenrods@yahoo.com Sun Apr 21 20:18:35 2002 g3M1IY427006 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:18:34 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:18:33 PDT Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators I also read that some London makers, Smyth and Bownesswere making laminated bamboo rod sections in the early19th century. These were three sided with the powerfiber side facing in and the rods were shaved from theoutside to arrive at the taper they were after. Someone on this list posted something recently aboutgluing up the splines with the enamel inside, thenshaving the outside to the final dimensions. --- Art Port wrote: Shane,Samuel Phillippe I believe, in Easton PA, thougha Mr. Green in Newark N.J.had a hand in it too, Ithink. I don't believe either of them built a fullcane rod, though. Just tips for rods built of otherwoods. I think that was himself, H.L. Leonard!Art __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 21 20:22:47 2002 g3M1Mj427322 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:22:45 -0500 Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish Randall,nice canoe. Is it a prospector style?This is my canoe I made from Meranti which is a bit heavier than WRC but with 2 coats of West System on the outside and one on the inside with 5 coats of marine spar on both surfaces it was around 50 lbs.The deck is made from Ash and Rose Mahogany I had laying around. The ashis the lighter coloured wood.The pic was taken in the mid day sun so it's not at it's best. http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/english_20_small.JPG This is at a lake called Lake Moogera near Brisbane. Lots of very big Australian Bass in this lake. Unfortunately there is a Cascade Designs dry bag on the deck to ruin the pic.http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/english_20_mog.jpgTony At 05:14 PM 4/21/02 -0500, Randall Gregory wrote: I think the website is fixed now. If you can't get it let me know. Randall G.----- Original Message -----From: Randall Gregory Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:34 PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish The canoe is on my Contact info page(at the bottom). The links were a little out of whack. Let me know if you can't find it, or if something isn't working correctly. Thanks, Randall G.----- Original Message -----From: Art Port Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:18 PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish OK Randall, to paraphrase Eye-GOR in Young Fronkensteeen, WHEREcanoe?I've been all over your site and can't find it. I'll let you in on a little secret though; if you hit the buttons at the bottom of the Shop Shots, nuttin' happens ( you get blank pages).Laytah!Art /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from Jkvseafood@aol.com Sun Apr 21 20:42:52 2002 g3M1gp427940 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:42:51 - for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:42:41 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:42:40 -0400 Subject: test test from rmoon@ida.net Sun Apr 21 20:51:55 2002 g3M1ps428331 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:51:54 -0500 0000 rodmakers@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Innovators not Imitators I once talked with an archeologist who told me that 4000 years ago, theChinese were making flight arrows of split and laminated bamboo. It isnot inconeivable that with that technology, they extended it to fishingrods. But with something more than speculation. Rod makers in Englandwere making tips from split bamboo some time before Philippe build hisrods. Those tps were generally tridaic or quadratic, with the powerfibles on the inside and the outside pith rounded. Also, I think thatSamuel Phillipe did indeed made a complete rod of split cane, but I amdepending on my memory. Solon Phillupe made a number of rods withhardwood butts and split cane tips, but this was a few years after hisfather. Say What you will I cannot be convinced that Greene did anymore than try to cash in on Phillipes. discovery. HYrum Leonard whilenot first to make split cane rods, was the first to market them. I hopeI have remembered correctly in all of the above. If not put it down toand old man's dreaming. Ralph Rex Tutor wrote: Maty Keane implies that Chinese were making split canerods long before English or Yanks did in the 1870s.--- Shane Person wrote: Adam's post is right on Does anyone know for surewho the guy was thatstarted it all??Shane channer wrote: Adam;The true innovator was the guy who came up with splitting, shaping and glueing together multiple strips of bamboo to make a fishin pole out of. Not to detract from the many contributions since then, but lets not forget the guy who started it all.john Adam Vigil wrote: Commentary:(do not freak out) __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from rmoon@ida.net Sun Apr 21 20:55:10 2002 g3M1t9428608 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:55:09 -0500 0000 Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish Man, I built an 18' redwood strip canoe fiberglassed and I swear that dangedthing weighed 150# I couldn't carry it.Ralph Tony Young wrote: Randall,nice canoe. Is it a prospector style?This is my canoe I made from Meranti which is a bit heavier than WRC butwith 2 coats of West System on the outside and one on the inside with 5coats of marine spar on both surfaces it was around 50 lbs.The deck is made from Ash and Rose Mahogany I had laying around. The ashisthe lighter coloured wood.The pic was taken in the mid day sun so it's not at it's best. http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/english_20_small.JPG This is at a lake called Lake Moogera near Brisbane. Lots of very bigAustralian Bass in this lake. Unfortunately there is a Cascade Designs drybag on the deck to ruin the pic.http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/english_20_mog.jpgTony At 05:14 PM 4/21/02 -0500, Randall Gregory wrote: I think the website is fixed now. If you can't get it let me know. RandallG.----- Original Message -----From: Randall Gregory Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:34 PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish The canoe is on my Contact info page(at the bottom). The links were alittle out of whack. Let me know if you can't find it, or if somethingisn't working correctly. Thanks, Randall G.----- Original Message -----From: Art Port Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:18 PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish OK Randall, to paraphrase Eye-GOR in Young Fronkensteeen, WHEREcanoe?I'vebeen all over your site and can't find it. I'll let you in on a littlesecret though; if you hit the buttons at the bottom of the Shop Shots,nuttin' happens ( you get blank pages).Laytah!Art /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Sun Apr 21 20:59:05 2002 g3M1x4428948 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 20:59:04 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:58:58 -0700 Subject: Re: flex-coat removal- happy ending FILETIME=[44615340:01C1E9A1] My post about removal of flex coat ended happily thanks to great wisdomfroma large number of people. I used flex coat because I was in a rush to complete a rod for a fishingtrip, and ran out of time. I did the butt section, and one tip, then ran outof material. When mixing the second batch, a big glop sort of popped intothe cup, resulting in an uneven resin/hardener ratio. Like a fool I used it,and the stuff never set. It remained sticky for months. I finally decided toredo the entire rod, and had a hard time getting it off the first guide. Iposted one of my perrenial "help me please" requests and got some good 1. Heat it with a hair dryer until it softens, 2. Use that orange varnish remover, 3., soak it in vinegar or alcohol until it softens, 4. Cut the thread at the guide side, and pull thread out from under thecoating which will then peel off. I tried number 1 and 2, but it was going slowly. I found that if I used ahook blade scalpel, I could insert the blade between the guide foot and therod, and slowly and carefully make long slit along both guide feet. I thenrocked the guide back and forth until it broke free, and this also raisedthe thread and coating as one single sheet that peeled off easily. This wasrisky because it would have been fairly easy to cut myself, cut into therod, or break the tip as I rocked the guides. But I managed to do get itdone without incident. I will use varnish remover to spot-remove theremaining material. I will probably re- dip the rod (it had a very thin coatof PU), but I was able to preserve most of the finish. The guide wrapsshould cover the gaps, so even this may not be needed. One of those all torare happy endings. Thanks guys. Jeff Schaeffer from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 21 21:06:02 2002 g3M260429292 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:06:01 -0500 Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish [:-)] It prob did. You've got to remember for every foot added you're increasing the over all dimensions plus the extra materials and it sure adds up.I never had any problems loading and unloading this boat from the roof racks but if it was much more boat I would have had problems.The English 20 by the way was designed around the 1920s by a Canadian with the sir name of English hence the name. A very nice to paddle boat not that I'm any sort of expert mind you. I once made a clinker McGreggor fully decked sailing canoe which was really nice too. There was no rocker on it at all it being a sailing boat more than a paddling one but it did weight a ton so needed two people to handle making it useless it being a one person canoe. Pretty canoe though.I guess I could have made two but needing a crew just to handle a canoe each seems a pointless exercise for a canoe. Tony At 07:55 PM 4/21/02 -0600, Ralph W. Moon wrote: Man, I built an 18' redwood strip canoe fiberglassed and I swear thatdangedthing weighed 150# I couldn't carry it.Ralph Tony Young wrote: Randall,nice canoe. Is it a prospector style?This is my canoe I made from Meranti which is a bit heavier than WRC butwith 2 coats of West System on the outside and one on the inside with 5coats of marine spar on both surfaces it was around 50 lbs.The deck is made from Ash and Rose Mahogany I had laying around. Theash isthe lighter coloured wood.The pic was taken in the mid day sun so it's not at it's best. http://www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/english_20_small.JPG This is at a lake called Lake Moogera near Brisbane. Lots of very bigAustralian Bass in this lake. Unfortunately there is a Cascade Designsdrybag on the deck to ruin the pic.http://members.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/english_20_mog.jpgTony At 05:14 PM 4/21/02 -0500, Randall Gregory wrote: I think the website is fixed now. If you can't get it let me know. RandallG.----- Original Message -----From: Randall Gregory Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:34 PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish The canoe is on my Contact info page(at the bottom). The links were alittle out of whack. Let me know if you can't find it, or if somethingisn't working correctly. Thanks, Randall G.----- Original Message -----From: Art Port Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 4:18 PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish OK Randall, to paraphrase Eye-GOR in Young Fronkensteeen,WHEREcanoe? I'vebeen all over your site and can't find it. I'll let you in on a littlesecret though; if you hit the buttons at the bottom of the Shop Shots,nuttin' happens ( you get blank pages).Laytah!Art /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from DZRODS@PRODIGY.NET Sun Apr 21 21:09:54 2002 g3M29r429549 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:09:53 -0500 g3M29pK170246 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:09:52 -0400 Subject: INOVATORS New to the list, I hope this turns out o.k.I had to dig out the "ROD BUILDING MANUAL" by "GEORGE LEONARD HERTER".=It gives a good, but brief history of rodmaking. G.L. Herter looked at =himself as a man with "fixed ideas and strong opinions".So, it must be =accurate.As far as written record goes, credit possibly should go to Mr. =Bowness for making the first section of spilt bamboo with enamel inside =( 3 strip rent and glued up). What ever that means. For the first =section of spilt bamboo with enamel side out, credit belongs to Mr. =Little of England and Mr. Samuel Phillippe of America. Both were making =rod sections with enamel side out around 1846.The father of modern complete four and six strip bamboo fly rod =making, however, was Samuel Phillippe.If you can get a copy, it's pretty interesting! gives a good, but brief history of rodmaking. G.L. Herter looked at = man with "fixed ideas and strong opinions".So, it must be =accurate. possibly should go to Mr. Bowness for making the first section of spilt = of = with enamel side out, credit belongs to Mr. Little of England and Mr. = Phillippe of America. Both were making rod sections with enamel side out = 1846. = Phillippe. interesting! from tedknott@cogeco.ca Sun Apr 21 21:20:30 2002 g3M2KT400038 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 21:20:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators I have an old fly rod made by, or for, a Boston firm which has a hickorybutt, greenheart mid, and a split bamboo tip. There is a buffalo nickelsoldered into the butt cap which pre-dates 1900. The rod is buried in theback of my tackle closet, so I'm going by memory. from robin@coco.freeserve.co.uk Sun Apr 21 22:22:17 2002 g3M3MH401792 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:22:17 - helo=t9q1e0) id 16zUP8-0002h2-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 04:22:15 +0100 Subject: Re: Milbro rod I am new to this so I dont know whether this is the correct method ofreplying........Milbro was the trading name of Millard Bros,who were bougt by Daiwa.Their products were sound but not fashionable,exciting,or rare,hence oflittle interest to collectors.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Milbro rod All ,Had anyone heard of a "Milbro Bantam" bamboo spinning rod made inScotland? Any info would be appreciated.Ed Hartzell from robin@coco.freeserve.co.uk Sun Apr 21 22:22:21 2002 g3M3MK401797 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:22:20 - helo=t9q1e0) id 16zUPB-0002h2-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 04:22:18 +0100 Subject: Help needed Some years ago I made some built cane in an attic.I used triangular formers,and the canes that carpets came rolled =on.Stuck together with white wood glue!I was broke,but the results,whilst time consuming to produce,were =encouraging.these were sections of low diameter.I have decided to do it again.the main obstacles this time are ,apart from time,that I live in a very =obscure part of the UK,Cornwall.I have PB's list of cane suppliers from Jan 2001.Is there a source of ferrules that is a bit less exotic than Agutters?All I need are splint end suction jobs in brass,they never caused me =trouble in the past,although I intend to do some work on cane ferrules =asap.Nickel will do,but I never could see why it was thought to be so =wonderful,its hardly stronger than brass,and wears quicker.Is there a Uk source for planing forms?I could make one,but its time.I can easily make a wooden one,is there a design I can crib?My reasons for this eccentricity are severalfold:a)I have an increasing number of cane rods here for repair"one day"b)I don't like the tapers of many cane rods,especially the blanks.In =short they are too slow,too heavy,too short,and too damned expensive.c)because of the final reason above I might as well profiteer too.d)I AM eccentric,everyone knows that.I have been very busy analysing tapers and studying weight reduction =techniques,now is the time to act.....Panic not, I'm going to start on something simple,like a Dickerson =8014,but at 8'10''.Don't know where this fashion for silly little rods =came from.That's when I've made up a load of Richard walker Mkiv bits = piggery,so I shall be able to charge a bit,I suppose.trouble is,most are =friends,and I've had one rod for repair for longer than it took him to =break it......How should I start on this?What type of form/former?Plane? Could I use my electric planer?And finish with a block plane with =a tungsten carbide blade?Or just get a Lie Nielson or something?my =Stanley no4 might be a bit big,I think.What's the UK glue favourite?Have used Aerolite,west system,Resorcinol,etc for boats.I'd like a glue that I can dissolve off,as I used to leave the enamel on =sections for my own use,they looked absolutely terrible...Most of the rest I can deal with,but does anyone know if Aqualite rings =are still available?I mean,they're crap but they do look nice on other peoples rods.Mine get =Fujis,I only want to whip one set of rings on any rod,ever.Especially if =its my own and I thus cannot charge for it!Would anyone like to recommend a cane supplier?I am quite happy with the =grade B stuff that has surface markings for my own and experimental =work,it adds character,and anyway,after carpet poles ALL culms are grade =A,believe me.I think I'm going to be presuming on Paul Blakley a bit here,but his =American chums seem to think he's the Main Man on the Uk scene,and a =Gent with it.I just cleaned up one of the B James Mkiv's this afternoon,I must say =the cane was not special at all,wonder how it was made?ROBIN Some years ago I made some built cane in an attic.I used triangular formers,and the canes that carpets came rolled = together with white wood glue! encouraging.these were sections of low diameter.I have decided to do it again.the main obstacles this time are ,apart from time,that I live in a = obscure part of the UK,Cornwall.I have PB's list of cane suppliers from Jan 2001. Agutters?All I need are splint end suction jobs in brass,they never caused = wonderful,its hardly stronger than brass,and wears quicker.Is there a Uk source for planing forms?I could make one,but its time.I can easily make a wooden one,is there a design I can crib?My reasons for this eccentricity are severalfold:a)I have an increasing number of cane rods here for repair"one =day"b)I don't like the tapers of many cane rods,especially the = they are too slow,too heavy,too short,and too damned expensive.c)because of the final reason above I might as well profiteer =too.d)I AM eccentric,everyone knows that.I have been very busy analysing tapers and studying weight = techniques,now is the time to act.....Panic not, I'm going to start on something simple,like a Dickerson = repair,there's a fortune ,potentially,in broken Mkiv's in my piggery,so = be able to charge a bit,I suppose.trouble is,most are friends,and I've = rod for repair for longer than it took him to break it......How should I start on this?What type of form/former?Plane? Could I use my electric planer?And finish with a block plane = tungsten carbide blade?Or just get a Lie Nielson or something?my Stanley = might be a bit big,I think.What's the UK glue favourite?Have used Aerolite,west system,Resorcinol,etc for boats.I'd like a glue that I can dissolve off,as I used to leave the = sections for my own use,they looked absolutely terrible...Most of the rest I can deal with,but does anyone know if Aqualite = still available?I mean,they're crap but they do look nice on other peoples = Fujis,I only want to whip one set of rings on any rod,ever.Especially if = own and I thus cannot charge for it!Would anyone like to recommend a cane supplier?I am quite happy = grade B stuff that has surface markings for my own and experimental = character,and anyway,after carpet poles ALL culms are grade A,believe =me.I think I'm going to be presuming on Paul Blakley a bit here,but = American chums seem to think he's the Main Man on the Uk scene,and a = it.I just cleaned up one of the B James Mkiv's this afternoon,I must = cane was not special at all,wonder how it was made? from channer@frontier.net Sun Apr 21 22:42:17 2002 g3M3gG402762 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 22:42:17 - Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Robin;Glad to see you found us at last! If you can manage to pull upwww.canerod.com on your computer, you will find directions there formaking forms, they will work for both steel and wood forms. Paul willundoubtedly know where you can at least order some bamboo from. WeColonials are a bit spoiled , bamboo has been relegated to short, lightline rods, few have the arm for a long heavy line bamboo rod anymore.Good luck in your search for tools and materials, let us know how itgoes.john Robin Haywood wrote: Some years ago I made some built cane in an attic.I used triangular formers,and the canes that carpets came rolledon.Stuck together with white wood glue!I was broke,but the results,whilst time consuming to produce,wereencouraging.these were sections of low diameter.I have decided to do it again.the main obstacles this time are ,apart from time,that I live in avery obscure part of the UK,Cornwall.I have PB's list of cane suppliers from Jan 2001.Is there a source of ferrules that is a bit less exotic than Agutters?All I need are splint end suction jobs in brass,they never caused metrouble in the past,although I intend to do some work on cane ferrulesasap.Nickel will do,but I never could see why it was thought to be sowonderful,its hardly stronger than brass,and wears quicker.Is there a Uk source for planing forms?I could make one,but its time.I can easily make a wooden one,is there a design I can crib?My reasons for this eccentricity are severalfold:a)I have an increasing number of cane rods here for repair"one day"b)I don't like the tapers of many cane rods,especially the blanks.Inshort they are too slow,too heavy,too short,and too damned expensive.c)because of the final reason above I might as well profiteer too.d)I AM eccentric,everyone knows that.I have been very busy analysing tapers and studying weight reductiontechniques,now is the time to act.....Panic not, I'm going to start on something simple,like a Dickerson8014,but at 8'10''.Don't know where this fashion for silly little rodscame from.That's when I've made up a load of Richard walker Mkiv bits piggery,so I shall be able to charge a bit,I suppose.trouble is,mostare friends,and I've had one rod for repair for longer than it tookhim to break it......How should I start on this?What type of form/former?Plane? Could I use my electric planer?And finish with a block planewith a tungsten carbide blade?Or just get a Lie Nielson orsomething?my Stanley no4 might be a bit big,I think.What's the UK glue favourite?Have used Aerolite,west system,Resorcinol,etc for boats.I'd like a glue that I can dissolve off,as I used to leave the enamelon sections for my own use,they looked absolutely terrible...Most of the rest I can deal with,but does anyone know if Aqualiterings are still available?I mean,they're crap but they do look nice on other peoples rods.Mineget Fujis,I only want to whip one set of rings on anyrod,ever.Especially if its my own and I thus cannot charge for it!Would anyone like to recommend a cane supplier?I am quite happy withthe grade B stuff that has surface markings for my own andexperimental work,it adds character,and anyway,after carpet poles ALLculms are grade A,believe me.I think I'm going to be presuming on Paul Blakley a bit here,but hisAmerican chums seem to think he's the Main Man on the Uk scene,and aGent with it.I just cleaned up one of the B James Mkiv's this afternoon,I must saythe cane was not special at all,wonder how it was made?ROBIN from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 21 23:44:31 2002 g3M4iT404247 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 23:44:30 - "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Help needed Robin.being on the far side of the lunatic fringe you've found the right place fear not!!. All I need are splint end suction jobs in brass,they never caused me trouble in the past,although I intend to do some work on cane ferrules asap.Nickel will do,but I never could see why it was thought to be so wonderful,its hardly stronger than brass,and wears quicker. This list is non commercial so I wont say too much except nickle silver really is almost made for the job because it combines the right hardness with an absence of galling most other metals I've tried tend to have. It's also not almost impossible to buy as a lot of more exotic metals are and it's easy to work with again compared with other metals. b)I don't like the tapers of many cane rods,especially the blanks.In short they are too slow,too heavy,too short,and too damned expensive. I don't want to start a war of words here but if all you can get is English style blanks I'd go back to using the stuff carpets are imported on. They are terrible. In fact the rolled carpets have a better action than the rods. c)because of the final reason above I might as well profiteer too. Sounds fair. [:-)] d)I AM eccentric,everyone knows that. A required asset. Plane? Could I use my electric planer?And finish with a block plane with a tungsten carbide blade?Or just get a Lie Nielson or something?my Stanley no4 might be a bit big,I think. You can do the whole job with a block plane, the least expensive best one IMHO is the Record 9 1/2. If money is no problem the LN is great. The Stanley would be good for roughing. I've been doing this a bit lately and a few others on list are also doing it. It's a lot easier than using a block plane for the rough as guts stage of planing the strips.You'd need some kind of very "Heath Robertson" jig to make your electric planer work without the loss of digits though I'd think.I'd stick to the hand planes if you want my opinion. What's the UK glue favourite?Have used Aerolite,west system,Resorcinol,etc for boats. Aerolite & Resorcinol are great. Out of the two use the Resorcinol unless you object to the purple glue lines but if you've been around boats a lot you'd find the glue lines to be something of a safety blanket guaranteeing non failure [:-)] I know I do on my boat anyhow. Aerolite is fine. I wish I could get it here but the closest I can get and it's not very close at that is Borden liquid UF which is ok.The West epoxy is said to not be too good for rods but I don't know why. Others do and hopefully they'll chime in and tell. Is JZ out there??? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Apr 22 02:38:50 2002 g3M7co411954 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 02:38:50 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: flex-coat removal- happy ending What I do to remove Flex coat is heat with alchol lamp and then remove withexacto knife, just cut a little slit and it will peel right off.. ThanksDavewww.davesrods.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: flex-coat removal- happy ending My post about removal of flex coat ended happily thanks to great wisdom from a large number of people. I used flex coat because I was in a rush to complete a rod for a fishingtrip, and ran out of time. I did the butt section, and one tip, then ran out of material. When mixing the second batch, a big glop sort of popped intothe cup, resulting in an uneven resin/hardener ratio. Like a fool I used it, and the stuff never set. It remained sticky for months. I finally decided to redo the entire rod, and had a hard time getting it off the first guide. Iposted one of my perrenial "help me please" requests and got some good 1. Heat it with a hair dryer until it softens, 2. Use that orange varnish remover, 3., soak it in vinegar or alcohol until it softens, 4. Cut the thread at the guide side, and pull thread out from under thecoating which will then peel off. I tried number 1 and 2, but it was going slowly. I found that if I used ahook blade scalpel, I could insert the blade between the guide foot and the rod, and slowly and carefully make long slit along both guide feet. I thenrocked the guide back and forth until it broke free, and this also raisedthe thread and coating as one single sheet that peeled off easily. This was risky because it would have been fairly easy to cut myself, cut into therod, or break the tip as I rocked the guides. But I managed to do get itdone without incident. I will use varnish remover to spot-remove theremaining material. I will probably re-dip the rod (it had a very thin coat of PU), but I was able to preserve most of the finish. The guide wrapsshould cover the gaps, so even this may not be needed. One of those all torare happy endings. Thanks guys. Jeff Schaeffer from rodwrapp@swbell.net Mon Apr 22 02:42:54 2002 g3M7gs412245 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 02:42:54 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Help needed You might also try www.rushriverrods.comTony Larson makes forms and ferrules at a very reasonable price.. ThanksDavewww.davesrods.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Help needed Hi Robin;Glad to see you found us at last! If you can manage to pull upwww.canerod.com on your computer, you will find directions there formaking forms, they will work for both steel and wood forms. Paul willundoubtedly know where you can at least order some bamboo from. WeColonials are a bit spoiled , bamboo has been relegated to short, lightline rods, few have the arm for a long heavy line bamboo rod anymore.Good luck in your search for tools and materials, let us know how itgoes.john Robin Haywood wrote: Some years ago I made some built cane in an attic.I used triangular formers,and the canes that carpets came rolledon.Stuck together with white wood glue!I was broke,but the results,whilst time consuming to produce,wereencouraging.these were sections of low diameter.I have decided to do it again.the main obstacles this time are ,apart from time,that I live in avery obscure part of the UK,Cornwall.I have PB's list of cane suppliers from Jan 2001.Is there a source of ferrules that is a bit less exotic than Agutters?All I need are splint end suction jobs in brass,they never caused metrouble in the past,although I intend to do some work on cane ferrulesasap.Nickel will do,but I never could see why it was thought to be sowonderful,its hardly stronger than brass,and wears quicker.Is there a Uk source for planing forms?I could make one,but its time.I can easily make a wooden one,is there a design I can crib?My reasons for this eccentricity are severalfold:a)I have an increasing number of cane rods here for repair"one day"b)I don't like the tapers of many cane rods,especially the blanks.Inshort they are too slow,too heavy,too short,and too damned expensive.c)because of the final reason above I might as well profiteer too.d)I AM eccentric,everyone knows that.I have been very busy analysing tapers and studying weight reductiontechniques,now is the time to act.....Panic not, I'm going to start on something simple,like a Dickerson8014,but at 8'10''.Don't know where this fashion for silly little rodscame from.That's when I've made up a load of Richard walker Mkiv bits piggery,so I shall be able to charge a bit,I suppose.trouble is,mostare friends,and I've had one rod for repair for longer than it tookhim to break it......How should I start on this?What type of form/former?Plane? Could I use my electric planer?And finish with a block planewith a tungsten carbide blade?Or just get a Lie Nielson orsomething?my Stanley no4 might be a bit big,I think.What's the UK glue favourite?Have used Aerolite,west system,Resorcinol,etc for boats.I'd like a glue that I can dissolve off,as I used to leave the enamelon sections for my own use,they looked absolutely terrible...Most of the rest I can deal with,but does anyone know if Aqualiterings are still available?I mean,they're crap but they do look nice on other peoples rods.Mineget Fujis,I only want to whip one set of rings on anyrod,ever.Especially if its my own and I thus cannot charge for it!Would anyone like to recommend a cane supplier?I am quite happy withthe grade B stuff that has surface markings for my own andexperimental work,it adds character,and anyway,after carpet poles ALLculms are grade A,believe me.I think I'm going to be presuming on Paul Blakley a bit here,but hisAmerican chums seem to think he's the Main Man on the Uk scene,and aGent with it.I just cleaned up one of the B James Mkiv's this afternoon,I must saythe cane was not special at all,wonder how it was made?ROBIN from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Apr 22 04:31:51 2002 g3M9Vo413560 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 04:31:50 -0500 by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4196. .Clear:0. Processed in 0.900059 secs); 22 Apr 2002 09:26:24 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 rodmakers@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Innovators not Imitators --------------000705070104010305040005 Art, I may be wrong but I think Phillippe was the first to make a complete split bamboo rod (butt,mid , tips). Some sources say it was Murphy of Newark , NJ . As I said I could very well be wrong. Marty Art Port wrote: Shane, Samuel Phillippe I believe, in Easton PA, though a Mr. Green in Newark N.J.had a hand in it too, I think. I don't believe either of them built a full cane rod, though. Just tips for rods built of other woods. I think that was himself, H.L. Leonard! Art Art, I may be wrong but I think Phillippe was the first to make a completesplit bamboo rod (butt,mid , tips). Some sources say it was Murphy ofNewark Art Port wrote: Shane, Mr. Greenin Newark N.J.had a hand in it too, I think. I don't believe either of thembuilt a full cane rod, though. Just tips for rods built of other woods. Ithink that was himself, H.L. Leonard!Art --------------000705070104010305040005-- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Apr 22 06:04:56 2002 g3MB4t414558 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:04:55 - g3MB4oe69160 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:04:51 Subject: Innovators/imitators I sort of agree with what you are all saying, but bloody hell, I am havingquite enough trouble imitating at this point, thank you very much. Cheers Peter from petermckean@netspace.net.au Mon Apr 22 06:15:38 2002 g3MBFb414915 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:15:37 - g3MBFTe71412; Subject: Re: Milbro rod When I was a kid, I had an air rifle (BB) which was a Milbro Diana. Same company, I wonder? Some of these big sporting goods companies(Browning and BSA come to mind as well) made or marketed a huge range ofsporting equipment right across the spectrum. I seem to remember that the air rifle was a serviceable though cheap bit ofgear; I know that I used it and abused it for a lot of years, and thoughit was very difficult to actually kill anything with it, I caused enoughwanton suffering to the endemic fauna to assure me a quantum of regret tolast me through the rest of my life! Penitently, Peter from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Mon Apr 22 06:30:28 2002 g3MBUR415353 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:30:27 - Subject: Re: Innovators/imitators The opener is this week end here in Michigan. I'll ask the trout what theright way to do this is. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Innovators/imitators I sort of agree with what you are all saying, but bloody hell, I am havingquite enough trouble imitating at this point, thank you very much. Cheers Peter from harms1@pa.net Mon Apr 22 06:42:03 2002 g3MBg3415742 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:42:03 -0500 Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish My understanding is that flex-coat is an epoxy, and if so, it probablyrequires UV protection. I know that in the boat-building industry, all thevarious epoxy formulas lack this protection and must be overcoated with avarnish product. So, there's nothing unusual or incompatable about this. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish Hey Mike. I built that canoe on my website and put 5 coats of marine sparover the epoxy used to fiberglass it.It is recommended for that boat. Don't know about the chemical composition of flex/coat. Good luck, Randall G.www.rifflewaterrods.com----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 1:52 PMSubject: flex-coat vs. varnish Hi guys!,Quick question. Has anyone ever placed an overcoat of varnish on top offlex-coat? I guess the real question is did it work?TIAMike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from harms1@pa.net Mon Apr 22 06:48:28 2002 g3MBmR416037 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:48:27 - Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) Kyle, Why must you reverse the direction of feed for the cross-wrap? Can't yousimply crank the wheel clockwise for the first wrap and counter- clockwise Is there something about the construction of your unit that prevents this?I don't see the problem, 'cause mine is AC/DC. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) Bill, thats an interesting idea, but wouldn't that be just the same as aMilward binder? I like the Smithwick binder but the only minor difficulty so far is if youwant to reverse the wrap. To do this you must feed the rod in the opposite direction. Normally, I pull the rod away from the tube as I warp, giving me one half of a criss-cross style wrap. To get the other side of the crossed wrap you feed the rod in to the tube and pull from the other end. Theproblem this creates for me is that the thread gets pulled inside the tubeand sometimes breaks. I've polished the edge of the tube but it has nothelped much. I'm thinking of putting some type of fitting on the front ofthe tube, maybe half of a copper sweat union fitting, so that the thread has a larger surface to run over. If you have any ideas on how to prevent thread breaking while wrapping in to the tube I would be interested in hearing you Kyle from harms1@pa.net Mon Apr 22 06:55:43 2002 g3MBtg416363 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 06:55:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Art, Both of these men built full, six-strip cane rods, though apparentlyPhillipe was first in the mid 19th century. But long before that, tipsections were made of split bamboo in England. These, however, were usuallyfour-strip (and, often, the power fibers were oriented toward the inside). In all cases, too, these early rods had their corners rounded intocylindrical shafts. It was H.L. Leonard, in the early 1870s, who firstintroduced the idea of maintaining the hexagaonal shape, but he was notfirst in building the entire rod of bamboo. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Shane,Samuel Phillippe I believe, in Easton PA, though a Mr. Green in NewarkN.J.had a hand in it too, I think. I don't believe either of them built afull cane rod, though. Just tips for rods built of other woods. I think thatwas himself, H.L. Leonard!Art from jojo@ipa.net Mon Apr 22 08:19:54 2002 g3MDJs418454 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:19:54 -0500 helo=default) id 16zdjN-0002qa-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:19:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Milbro rod Perhaps it was a Daisy BB gun -- made in Arkansas. M-D When I was a kid, I had an air rifle (BB) which was a Milbro Diana. Same company, I wonder? Some of these big sporting goods companies(Browning and BSA come to mind as well) made or marketed a huge range ofsporting equipment right across the spectrum. I seem to remember that the air rifle was a serviceable though cheap bit ofgear; I know that I used it and abused it for a lot of years, and thoughit was very difficult to actually kill anything with it, I caused enoughwanton suffering to the endemic fauna to assure me a quantum of regret tolast me through the rest of my life! Penitently, Peter from ldboyko@cpinternet.com Mon Apr 22 08:52:34 2002 g3MDqX419968 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:52:33 - g3MDqTQE022176 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:52:30 - Subject: Bamboo nodes Bamboo Nodes: Last week soneone mentioned that they upon squaring the =strip up, then also plane down the node side, I believe to even things =up. They said that they did not even heat and straighten node prior to =this. I have my butt strips soaked in water for several days and an =going to start working on them tonight, and am wondering about this node =thing. I have a Wagner heat gun that goes from 200 to 1200 degrees, I =quess this would make it hot enough would it not. I quess I would like a =little more pro and cons about this node straightening thing. I suppose = then the comment the other day, it did not seem to make much difference =at all. Any comments. Lew in frozen Duluth, Mn got 3 inches of snow =last night, so may as well work on bamboo. Bamboo Nodes: Last week soneone = upon squaring the strip up, then also plane down the node side, I = even things up. They said that they did not even heat and straighten = to this. I have my butt strips soaked in water for several days and an = start working on them tonight, and am wondering about this node thing. I = Wagner heat gun that goes from 200 to 1200 degrees, I quess this would = hot enough would it not. I quess I would like a little more pro and cons = this node straightening thing. I suppose idealy you want to straighten = as straight as possible,, but then the comment the other day, it did not = make much difference at all. Any comments. Lew in frozen Duluth, = bamboo. from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Apr 22 09:07:00 2002 g3ME70420885 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:07:00 - 22 Apr 2002 07:06:59 PDT Subject: Re: Help needed rodmakers RobinSince both of our written languages started as EnglishI was able to understand most of your email.There'sa great new site on the web with lots of tipsand techniques for bamboo rod building. Praise Todd It is athttp://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/index.html http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Articles/Wood_Planing_Forms/wood_planing_forms.htmlgood luck and welcome--- Robin Haywood wrote: Some years ago I made some built cane in an attic.I used triangular formers,and the canes that carpetscame rolled on.Stuck together with white wood glue!I was broke,but the results,whilst time consuming toproduce,were encouraging.these were sections of lowdiameter.I have decided to do it again.the main obstacles this time are ,apart fromtime,that I live in a very obscure part of theUK,Cornwall.I have PB's list of cane suppliers from Jan 2001.Is there a source of ferrules that is a bit lessexotic than Agutters?All I need are splint end suction jobs in brass,theynever caused me trouble in the past,although Iintend to do some work on cane ferrules asap.Nickelwill do,but I never could see why it was thought tobe so wonderful,its hardly stronger than brass,andwears quicker.Is there a Uk source for planing forms?I could make one,but its time.I can easily make a wooden one,is there a design Ican crib?My reasons for this eccentricity are severalfold:a)I have an increasing number of cane rods here forrepair"one day"b)I don't like the tapers of many canerods,especially the blanks.In short they are tooslow,too heavy,too short,and too damned expensive.c)because of the final reason above I might as wellprofiteer too.d)I AM eccentric,everyone knows that.I have been very busy analysing tapers and studyingweight reduction techniques,now is the time toact.....Panic not, I'm going to start on somethingsimple,like a Dickerson 8014,but at 8'10''.Don'tknow where this fashion for silly little rods camefrom.That's when I've made up a load of Richardwalker Mkiv bits for repair,there's a fortune,potentially,in broken Mkiv's in my piggery,so Ishall be able to charge a bit,I suppose.troubleis,most are friends,and I've had one rod for repair How should I start on this?What type of form/former?Plane? Could I use my electric planer?And finishwith a block plane with a tungsten carbide blade?Orjust get a Lie Nielson or something?my Stanley no4might be a bit big,I think.What's the UK glue favourite?Have used Aerolite,west system,Resorcinol,etc forboats.I'd like a glue that I can dissolve off,as I used toleave the enamel on sections for my own use,theylooked absolutely terrible...Most of the rest I can deal with,but does anyoneknow if Aqualite rings are still available?I mean,they're crap but they do look nice on otherpeoples rods.Mine get Fujis,I only want to whip oneset of rings on any rod,ever.Especially if its myown and I thus cannot charge for it!Would anyone like to recommend a cane supplier?I amquite happy with the grade B stuff that has surfacemarkings for my own and experimental work,it addscharacter,and anyway,after carpet poles ALL culmsare grade A,believe me.I think I'm going to be presuming on Paul Blakley abit here,but his American chums seem to think he'sthe Main Man on the Uk scene,and a Gent with it.I just cleaned up one of the B James Mkiv's thisafternoon,I must say the cane was not special atall,wonder how it was made?ROBIN __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Apr 22 09:09:11 2002 g3ME9A421256 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:09:10 - Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:08:30 -0400 Subject: 6" to 5" stations FILETIME=[2E5C5C00:01C1EA07] OK. Do any of you mathemagicians out there have a formula or method toconvert tapers from rods measured at 6" stations to 5" stations? I'vegot quite a few and was wondering how y'all do it. (BTW, had to throw that obligatory y'all in there for Harry, since I'mthe dreaded Yankee)-- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 --- --- email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Apr 22 09:23:24 2002 Received: from g3MENN422156 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 rwcrmhc51.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127- ; Mon, 22Apr 2002 14:23:14 +0000 Message-ID: From: "Don Schneider" References:Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Date: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Todd,Enter the 6" station data in hexrod, hit calculate and presto, you have the 5"station data. Don ----- Original Message ----- From: "Todd Talsma" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:09 AMSubject: 6" to 5" stations OK. Do any of you mathemagicians out there havea formula or method to convert tapers from rods measured at 6" stationsto 5" stations? I've got quite a few and was wondering how y'all do it. (BTW,had to throw that obligatory y'all in there for Harry, since I'm the dreadedYankee) -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from KyleDruey@aol.com Mon Apr 22 09:26:45 2002 Received: from imo- g3MEQj422531 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v32.5.) id 4.19d.11741db (4505) for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN For the ultra- precision-better-rod-making hand planers out there [:)] , got a few questions aboutusing bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge ofthe chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on theeffective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help,Kyle > from rmoon@ida.net Mon Apr 22 09:27:34 2002 Received: from 0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ida.net) (208.141.176.93) by Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 08:27:35 -0600 ldboyko@cpinternet.com CC: Rodmakers Subject: Re: Bamboo nodes References:Content-Type: Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN ------ ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lew: Look up Tom Smithwick'scomments on Todd Talsma's tip web site. Tom has a very down to earthmethod, but more importantly his philosophy of node straightening comesthrough loud and clear. I think that his method is the best, and apparently sodoes Tom. When builders start trying to be too innovative and come up with ahundred different ways of doing things, there are bound to be a few goodnew ideas, but for the most part the innovations range from bad todisastrous. Inch your way up from the tried and true Ralph lew boyko wrote: Bamboo Nodes: Last week soneone mentioned that they upon squaring thestrip up, then also plane down the node side, I believe to even thingsup. They said that they did not even heat and straighten node prior tothis. I have my butt strips soaked in water for several days and angoing to start working on them tonight, and am wondering about thisnode thing. I have a Wagner heat gun that goes from 200 to 1200degrees, I quess this would make it hot enough would it not. I quess Iwould like a little more pro and cons about this node straighteningthing. I suppose idealy you want to straighten the node as straight aspossible,, but then the comment the other day, it did not seem to makemuch difference at all. Any comments. Lew in frozen Duluth, Mn got 3inches of snow last night, so may as well work on bamboo. --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------D9EEB0818911E6E594A1AF49 Tom has a very down to earth method, but more importantly his philosophy start trying to be too innovative and come up with a hundred differentways of doing things, there are bound to be a few good new ideas, but forthe most part the innovations range from bad to disastrous. Ralphlew boyko wrote: BambooNodes: Last week soneone mentioned that they upon squaring the strip up,then also plane down the node side, I believe to even things up. They saidthat they did not even heat and straighten node prior to this. I have mybutt strips soaked in water for several days and an going to start workingon them tonight, and am wondering about this node thing. I have a Wagnerheat gun that goes from 200 to 1200 degrees, I quess this would make ithot enough would it not. I quess I would like a little more pro and consabout this node straightening thing. I suppose idealy you want to straightenthe node as straight as possible,, but then the comment the other day,it did not seem to make much difference at all. Any comments. Lew in frozen bamboo. --rmoon@ida.netwww.ida.net/users/rmoon --------------D9EEB0818911E6E594A1AF49-- from dryfly@erols.com Mon Apr 22 09:35:55 2002 g3MEZs423783 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:35:54 - ([208.58.202.90] helo=erols.com) id 16zeuv-0006ds-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:35:46 -0400 Subject: Where to pin ferrules? I successfully pinned a couple ferrules (for the first time) over theweekend on a couple rods where the ferrules had already been lapped. Ipinned the males in the collar between the tabs and slide. Tonight Iplan to start lapping ferrules for 3 more rods and wonder before I lapthem, where the best place is to pin the males. Is is better to pinthem as I did the others, in the collar between the tabs and the slidesor should I pin right in the middle of the slide? ThanksBob Also, for the three rods I just ferruled, I used Bob Nunley's method offiling the tabs to a point using a small triangle file (as described ina past issue of PowerFibers). I was amazed how easy is was and how muchfaster it was than just thinning the tabs. If you haven't tried it youshould, just follow the directions closely, make sure you use a small,fine triangle file and go slowly at first. Thanks again Bob for themethod and article. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 22 09:36:15 2002 g3MEaD423871 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:36:13 - Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane It's all related to the depth of cut as is the width of the mouth.Unless you're taking the cut really close to the stage you need the block plane for try setting the frog so the mouth's opened 2mm and the chip breaker about the same back from the edge of the iron and just mess with settings from there.If the chip breaker is too far back you'll get lifting and too close and clogging will result because the curls will jam the mouth. Do a couple of things before you start though. First make sure the chip breaker is set fair against the iron with no gap showing at all else the shavings will clog there, also make sure the iron is sharp or you'll be blaming the settings for any problems you may encounter. Tony At 10:26 AM 4/22/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: afew questions about using bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge of the chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on the effective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help, Kyle /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Mon Apr 22 09:44:27 2002 g3MEiQ424719 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:44:26 -0500 helo=default) id 16zf3H-0007vc-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:44:23 -0400 Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Todd, At least you used the word y'all in a correct context. ;o) Use Frank's Online Hexrod program. Just tag the bullet at the bottom of thepage that says somethingabout inputting dimensions and cut and paste. The next window will have thecorrect format forentering the dimensions. Just follow the instructions and go from there. M-D OK. Do any of you mathemagicians out there have a formula or method toconvert tapers from rods measured at 6" stations to 5" stations? I'vegot quite a few and was wondering how y'all do it. (BTW, had to throw that obligatory y'all in there for Harry, since I'mthe dreaded Yankee)--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464----- - web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from homes-sold@attbi.com Mon Apr 22 09:56:17 2002 g3MEuG425688 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:56:16 - ;Mon, 22 Apr 2002 14:56:11 +0000 Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane Kyle,The only thing I would add to what Tony said is: Make sure the back of theIorn is flat.Don----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane It's all related to the depth of cut as is the width of the mouth.Unless you're taking the cut really close to the stage you need the blockplane for try setting the frog so the mouth's opened 2mm and the chipbreaker about the same back from the edge of the iron and just mess withsettings from there.If the chip breaker is too far back you'll get lifting and too close andclogging will result because the curls will jam the mouth. Do a couple of things before you start though. First make sure the chipbreaker is set fair against the iron with no gap showing at all else theshavings will clog there, also make sure the iron is sharp or you'll beblaming the settings for any problems you may encounter. Tony At 10:26 AM 4/22/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: afew questions about using bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge of the chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on the effective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help, Kyle /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Apr 22 09:58:10 2002 g3MEw9426006 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 09:58:09 - (authenticated) Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:58:00 -0700 Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Todd, Don't be so sensitive. Some of my best friends are d.Yankees. [:-)] Harry Todd Talsma wrote: (BTW, had to throw that obligatory y'all in there for Harry, since I'mthe dreaded Yankee) --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Apr 22 10:01:36 2002 g3MF1Z426472 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 10:01:35 - Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:00:56 -0400 Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations FILETIME=[8179F620:01C1EA0E] Not really sensitive Harry, I'm just making sure y'all know I know whereI stand. ;^) (Yep, we've got pointy noses AND snow up here today!!!) Harry Boyd wrote: Todd, Don't be so sensitive. Some of my best friends are d.Yankees. [:-)] Harry Todd Talsma wrote: (BTW, had to throw that obligatory y'all in there for Harry, since I'mthe dreaded Yankee) --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 22 10:29:06 2002 Received: from 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Anyone out there ever heardof a rodmaker named Ron Taylor? I'm trying to track some info down foranother individual. I've looked through every website I can think of and all ofmy notes, and found nothing. Apparently Ron Taylor has been making rods can find nothing. Thanks in advance, Bob R.L. Nunley, Rodmaker Custom SplitCane Flyrods http://www.caneflyrod.com >Frompvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Mon Apr 22 10:57:36 2002 Received: from Boyd'" Cc: "'Rodmakers List'"Subject: RE: 6" to 5" stations Date: Mon, 22Apr 2002 11:59:58 -0400 Message-ID: Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Y'all need to keep your snowout west, here in New England the flowers are in full bloom along with theallergy's. Water temp at 55 Hendrickson's hatching - Life is good! Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Not really sensitive Harry, I'm just making surey'all know I know where I stand. ;^) (Yep, we've got pointy noses AND snow uphere today!!!) Harry Boyd wrote: Todd, Don't be so sensitive. Some of my best friends are d.Yankees. [:-)] Harry Todd Talsma wrote: (BTW, had to throw that obligatory y'all in there for Harry, since I'mthe dreaded Yankee) --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from kenealyj@gwi.net Mon Apr 22 11:09:17 2002 g3MG9G401636 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:09:17 - "'Harry Boyd'" Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Where in New England are you?? Up here in central Maine, most of the ponds are still ice covered, theKennebec River is running at 36Ÿ and my casting pond froze solid the last 2days with a high of 43Ÿ and a low of about 20Ÿ!! John K----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: 6" to 5" stations Y'all need to keep your snow out west, here in New England the flowers arein full bloom along with the allergy's. Water temp at 55 Hendrickson'shatching - Life is good! Pete -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 11:02 AM Cc: Rodmakers ListSubject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Not really sensitive Harry, I'm just making sure y'all know I know whereI stand. ;^) (Yep, we've got pointy noses AND snow up here today!!!) Harry Boyd wrote: Todd, Don't be so sensitive. Some of my best friends are d.Yankees. [:-)] Harry Todd Talsma wrote: (BTW, had to throw that obligatory y'all in there for Harry, since I'mthe dreaded Yankee) --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 22 11:11:06 2002 g3MGB6402015 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:11:06 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Ron Taylor OK, Guys, here is what I found out from Len Codella. Ron Taylor is BobTaylors older brother. His real job is in the Pizza Business, but he does,and has for quite a long time, make the occasional rod for himself and itwill sometimes find it's way onto the market. Len thinks that the rod soldin the 1990 auction was one that he had sold for Ron.There is more out there, I'm sure, and can find it now that I know WHOI'm looking for! Thanks,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Ron Taylor Hi Bob -Are you sure it's not Bob Taylor? he was with T & T, and is now on his own and well regarded. from harms1@pa.net Mon Apr 22 11:28:11 2002 g3MGSA403543 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:28:10 - Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Todd, I haven't done it mathematically, since I can barely add or subtract.Instead, I when I converted my early tapers (six-inch increments) tofive-inch increments, I plotted the original taper on very large graph paperand connected the dots. Then, the matter was simply one of counting offfive- inch stations instead of six, and taking my new readings where thetaper crossed those points. The small amount of "tweaking" needed was ofnosignificance. For me, pictures are better than formulae any day. Piece o'cake! Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: 6" to 5" stations OK. Do any of you mathemagicians out there have a formula or method toconvert tapers from rods measured at 6" stations to 5" stations? I'vegot quite a few and was wondering how y'all do it. (BTW, had to throw that obligatory y'all in there for Harry, since I'mthe dreaded Yankee)--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464----- - web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from jvswan@earthlink.net Mon Apr 22 11:32:13 2002 g3MGWC403972 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:32:12 -0500 (216.160.237.84) rodmakers@mail.wustl.eduUser-Agent: Microsoft- Entourage/10.0.0.1429Subject: Re: flex-coat removal My favorite trick for getting rid of epoxy that has cured on guide wraps isto use an old cork ring. Shave the threads and old epoxy off the guide footwith a razor or a scalpel. Remove the guide and remove all the thread andas much of the cured epoxy as you can. Then take an old cork ring andbriskly "erase" the epoxy. The friction from the cork creates a lot of heatthat breaks the epoxy down. Takes a little bit of elbow grease if the epoxyis really thick, but it works really well and leaves a nice clean surface. Good luck, Jason On 4/21/02 4:30 PM, "Jeff Schaeffer" wrote: Through a serious error in judgement, I need to remove some guides thatwerecoated with flex-cote. I promise never to use it again. Does anyone haveanytricks for getting it off the rods? I am using a scalpel, but it is goingsloowwwwllly... Jeff Schaeffer from harms1@pa.net Mon Apr 22 11:55:58 2002 g3MGtv405816 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:55:57 - Subject: Re: Bamboo nodes Lew, I'll offer my version, and others can chime in with theirs. I split myculms, stagger the nodes for each section, and cut all to length. Iheat-treat these rough strips and the soak everything in water for 3-5 daysprior to squaring- up and straightening. I do the squaring-up first, including planing off the little ridge on top ofthe node. When squaring-up, my intention is to reduce the dimensions asmuch as possible before straightening, following the line of fibers ratherthan that of the strip itself--especially important when entering andleaving a node area. Then, I fire up the heat gun and straighten the nodes. Do not be satisfiedthat you have actually straightened the cane just because a little heat willbe sufficient to counter-bend the wet cane. The objective is not to use theleast amount heat to bend the cane (because this does not producepermanentresults), but instead it is to use the MOST heat your cane can stand, shortof scorching. You shouldn't need to worry about this, however, since thewater-saturation will keep you safe. I think that cutting through nodal fibers is not, in itself, a significantfactor affecting the strength of a fly rod, because the fibers within a nodeare a tangled mess anyway. On the other hand, a crooked node requires youto cut through the long, internodal fibers just where these enter and exit anode, and I believe this MIGHT become a problem of reduced strength. Youwon't ruin a rod, but it may not be as crisp as the taper could have yeildedotherwise. (This issue seems open to opinion, however, and I wouldn't arguethe case very long one way or the other). Aesthetically, many of us builders just don't like the "looks" of a crookednode area that has been ignored and planed through. And, too, notinsignificantly, you will cause yourself untold headaches when planing astrip with nodes that have not been properly straightened. (Crooked fiberstypically mean "tear- out" and chipping when planing with anything less thana perfectly sharpened iron--as most irons are after their first three orfour passes). After heat straightening, you can either go ahead with the roughtriangulation (while the cane is still wet) and then dry the strips at 215degrees in your oven, or you can dry first (as I do) and then triangulate.Dealer's choice. But whatever you hear from one builder, be prepared to hear a dozenalternatives from others. It's all good stuff. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Bamboo nodes Bamboo Nodes: Last week soneone mentioned that they upon squaring thestripup, then also plane down the node side, I believe to even things up. Theysaid that they did not even heat and straighten node prior to this. I havemy butt strips soaked in water for several days and an going to startworking on them tonight, and am wondering about this node thing. I have aWagner heat gun that goes from 200 to 1200 degrees, I quess this wouldmakeit hot enough would it not. I quess I would like a little more pro and consabout this node straightening thing. I suppose idealy you want to straightenthe node as straight as possible,, but then the comment the other day, itdid not seem to make much difference at all. Any comments. Lew in frozenDuluth, Mn got 3 inches of snow last night, so may as well work on bamboo. from CALucker@aol.com Mon Apr 22 12:19:11 2002 g3MHJA407292 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:19:10 - Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) bob@downandacross.com,LambersonW@missouri.edu, robertgkope@attbi.com, harms1@pa.net,atlasc1@earthlink.net, rcristant@isgtransport.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 4/21/02 10:32:05 AM Pacific Daylight Time, wlwalter77us@yahoo.com writes: I've been giving some thought to the 2-string ideamyself and am trying to come up with a way to use aSmithwick binder with an inner wheel that wouldcounter rotate inside the larger wheel. Any ideas?Would this require gearing of some kind? Bill W. That would be essentially the Winston Mill design. Look at my plans for a dual action binder that appeared in the March/April 1994 Planing Form and I guess you can find it in the Best of the Planing Form too. I got around the gear/differential issue the same way that Bob Milward did.Chris Lucker In a message dated 4/21/02 10:32:05 AM PacificDaylight Time, wlwalter77us@yahoo.com writes: I've been giving somethought to the 2-string ideamyself and am trying to come up with a way to use aSmithwick binder with an inner wheel that wouldcounter rotate inside the larger wheel. Any ideas?Would this require gearing of some kind? Bill W. a dual action binder that appeared in the March/April 1994 Planing Form and I the gear/differential issue the same way that Bob Milward did.Chris Lucker from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Apr 22 12:39:57 2002 g3MHdu408529 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:39:56 - Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:39:53 +0100 Subject: Re: Help needed Robin,As you have 'thrown down the gaunlet'in my direction here's my response Firsts of all you are posing a serious number of questions which i canin no way answer , or for that matter are there any definitive answers!I am in no way the 'Main Man'........just an amateur knocking out as fewas 2 rods per year to as many as sometimes four or even five rods peryear.....work amd familly permitting .The real professionals being the likes of Edward Barder ( for coarserods ) and Tom Moran ( for fly rods ). Lets also not forget the likes ofTrevor Smith from Halifax, a former pro now amateur ( cos rod buildingjust doesn't pay serious cash )who builds the most exquisite fly rods Ihave ever seen or cast. I am only a keen amateur who is prepared to go alittle out of his way in helping others share and exchange thetechnologies behind bamboo/cane rod building .Now that said here we gowith some answers to your questions; Ferrules;Agutters ferrules are not particularly fine examples of the art !A few of the other amateurs are making some class ferrules but as a rulewe have only one ferrule maker left here in the UK ( Shirley Maisie ofLeicester )and he works exclusively in Nickle Silver and only inferrules suitable for Fly Rods.I you want Brass suction type i can but imagine you are working oncoarse rods.......hence your stated interest in Mk4's! I'll see what I have in stock so to speak........I have a few hundredleftovers from a past generation hiding away in my garage..........Alternatively try Chapmans of Ware who will be able to point you in theright direction ......... Planing Forms.Barry Grantham of Lincolnshire is the man for forms and depthgauges.....if your serious e-mail me off the list for details.Alternatively just surf the web , buy Wayne Cattanachs book and makeyour own.....part of the fun of rod building is tracking down thetooling.It took me two years to sort my tools out.......it ain't easyunless you have lots of cash and want to buy everything ready made. PlanesJust go to B&Q and buy either a record 91/2 for about £50 or get aStanley 91/2 equivalent ( I forget the exact designation) for about £35.Buy a few spare blades while your at it.......your going to need them . AdhesivesStatistically we don't have enough rodbuilders in The UK to quote afavourite adhesive..........but the ones most people use are eitherAerolite 308, Aerolite 'Single Shot',Resorcinol,Waterproof PVA, GorillaGlue or Cascamite. Rod Rings;Contact Hopkins and Holloway and get a copy of their catalogue fordetails of the rings that are READILLY available.For any specificrequiremnts re vintage rings e.g Agates, and if your serious pleasecontact me off the list......large Agates for Coarse rods are available from a few guarded sources........but boy are they expensive.........youcan pay up to £30 for butt ring for a Mk4 !! Don't forget Todds website which is full of useful info for beginnersand oldtimers alike...........a most excellent effort at TechnologyTransfer..............thats it for now .....tight lines.........Paul Robin Haywood wrote: Some years ago I made some built cane in an attic.I used triangular formers,and the canes that carpets came rolledon.Stuck together with white wood glue!I was broke,but the results,whilst time consuming to produce,wereencouraging.these were sections of low diameter.I have decided to do it again.the main obstacles this time are ,apart from time,that I live in avery obscure part of the UK,Cornwall.I have PB's list of cane suppliers from Jan 2001.Is there a source of ferrules that is a bit less exotic than Agutters?All I need are splint end suction jobs in brass,they never caused metrouble in the past,although I intend to do some work on cane ferrulesasap.Nickel will do,but I never could see why it was thought to be sowonderful,its hardly stronger than brass,and wears quicker.Is there a Uk source for planing forms?I could make one,but its time.I can easily make a wooden one,is there a design I can crib?My reasons for this eccentricity are severalfold:a)I have an increasing number of cane rods here for repair"one day"b)I don't like the tapers of many cane rods,especially the blanks.Inshort they are too slow,too heavy,too short,and too damned expensive.c)because of the final reason above I might as well profiteer too.d)I AM eccentric,everyone knows that.I have been very busy analysing tapers and studying weight reductiontechniques,now is the time to act.....Panic not, I'm going to start on something simple,like a Dickerson8014,but at 8'10''.Don't know where this fashion for silly little rodscame from.That's when I've made up a load of Richard walker Mkiv bits piggery,so I shall be able to charge a bit,I suppose.trouble is,mostare friends,and I've had one rod for repair for longer than it tookhim to break it......How should I start on this?What type of form/former?Plane? Could I use my electric planer?And finish with a block planewith a tungsten carbide blade?Or just get a Lie Nielson orsomething?my Stanley no4 might be a bit big,I think.What's the UK glue favourite?Have used Aerolite,west system,Resorcinol,etc for boats.I'd like a glue that I can dissolve off,as I used to leave the enamelon sections for my own use,they looked absolutely terrible...Most of the rest I can deal with,but does anyone know if Aqualiterings are still available?I mean,they're crap but they do look nice on other peoples rods.Mineget Fujis,I only want to whip one set of rings on anyrod,ever.Especially if its my own and I thus cannot charge for it!Would anyone like to recommend a cane supplier?I am quite happy withthe grade B stuff that has surface markings for my own andexperimental work,it adds character,and anyway,after carpet poles ALLculms are grade A,believe me.I think I'm going to be presuming on Paul Blakley a bit here,but hisAmerican chums seem to think he's the Main Man on the Uk scene,and aGent with it.I just cleaned up one of the B James Mkiv's this afternoon,I must saythe cane was not special at all,wonder how it was made?ROBIN from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 22 12:52:13 2002 g3MHqC409342 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:52:12 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:49:53 -0500 Subject: Reel seat tooling Anyone out there interested in Lathe Tooling to cut wedding band =(convex, 1/4" wide X 5/8" radius) reel seat sliding bands, contact me =offlist. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Hal Bacon should jump in here... the original Payne 98 had a step =down ferrule. The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You can =average the #'s out and use a 12/64 ferrule. 11/64th cuts a little too =much bamboo off IMHO. Al Medved and I have talked about this and Al has = Anyone out there interested in Lathe Tooling to cut = band (convex, 1/4" wide X 5/8" radius) reel seat sliding bands, contact = offlist. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Dennishigham@cs.com Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: Payne 98 and =ferrulesMark, = The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You can average the = and use a 12/64 ferrule. 11/64th cuts a little too much bamboo off = Al Medved and I have talked about this and Al has made a couple of = from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Mon Apr 22 13:12:36 2002 g3MICZ410615 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:12:35 - 0000 Subject: Pregunta Hola amigos de rodmaker. Hacia mucho tiempo que no podia comunicarme con=ustedes. Yo no tenia telefono ultimamente. Yo deseo saludarlos y =decirles que nuevamente puedo recibir mensajes. En este tiempo yo estube =trabajando en la finalizacion de una ca=F1a. Es para un amigo de =Espa=F1a. Ahora yo desearia que alguno de ustedes pudiera darme una =opinion de este dise=F1o que adjunto .Es un dise=F1o propio. Es una =ca=F1a de 7=B4 # 5/6. 2 Pc. Por favor si alguno ustedes pudiese calcular =el estres y envierme una grafica de su accion yo estaria muy agradecido. =Reciban todos un afectuoso saludo. Alberto. Hello rodmaker friends. Toward a lot of time that I could not =communicate with you. Me not taenia telephone lately. I want to greet =them and to tell them that again I can receive messages. In this time me =estube working in the finalization of a cane. It is for a friend from =Spain. Now I would want that some of you could give me an opinion of =this design that I attach. It is an own design. It is a cane of 7=B4 =#5/6. 2 Pc. Please if some you can calculate the stress and envierme one =it of their action I would be very grateful. Receive all an affectionate = P. 0- .088 P5- .094 P 10- .110 P 15- .124 P 20- .137 P 25- .155 P30- .175 P35- .195 P40- .215 P45- .225 P50 .224 P55- .260 P60 .275 P65- .293 P70- .310 P75- .325 P80- .342 P84- .360 Hola amigos de rodmaker. Hacia mucho tiempo que no podia comunicarme= ustedes. Yo no tenia telefono ultimamente. Yo deseo saludarlos y = nuevamente puedo recibir mensajes. En este tiempo yo estube trabajando = finalizacion de una ca=F1a. Es para un amigo de Espa=F1a. Ahora yo = alguno de ustedes pudiera darme una opinion de este dise=F1o que adjunto = dise=F1o propio. Es una ca=F1a de 7=B4 # 5/6. 2 Pc. Por favor si alguno = pudiese calcular el estres y envierme una grafica de su accion yo = agradecido. Reciban todos un afectuoso saludo. Alberto.Hello rodmaker friends. Toward a lot of time that I could not = with you. Me not taenia telephone lately. I want to greet them and to = that again I can receive messages. In this time me estube working in the = finalization of a cane. It is for a friend from Spain. Now I would want = some of you could give me an opinion of this design that I attach. It is = design. It is a cane of 7=B4 #5/6. 2 Pc. Please if some you can = stress and envierme one it of their action I would be very grateful. = an affectionate greeting. Alberto. P 10- .110P 15- .124P 20- .137P 25- .155P30- .175P35- .195P40- .215P45- .225P50 .224P55- .260P60 .275P65- .293P70- .310P75- .325P80- .342P84- =.360 from Jfoster@sunset.net Mon Apr 22 13:21:27 2002 g3MILQ411320 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 13:21:26 - for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 11:21:12 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) Chris got my binder tuned, thanks for the help.. it works great.everyone should take advantage of this great tool..no twists.. jerry from horsesho@ptd.net Mon Apr 22 15:23:37 2002 g3MKNa424928 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:23:36 - by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4197. .Clear:0. Processed in 0.822025 secs); 22 Apr 2002 20:23:36 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Ron Taylor Bob, I think Ron Taylor is Bob Taylor's brother . He at one time worked working with Bob(making rods) in upstate NY. Marty Bob Nunley wrote: Anyone out there ever heard of a rodmaker named Ron Taylor? I'm tryingtotrack some info down for another individual. I've looked through everywebsite I can think of and all of my notes, and found nothing. ApparentlyRon Taylor has been making rods for quite some time, as one of his rodswassold in an auction in 1990, but I can find nothing. Thanks in advance,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from bob@downandacross.com Mon Apr 22 15:51:30 2002 g3MKpT427679 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 15:51:29 - 22 Apr 2002 16:51:23 -0400 Subject: RE: ? Bench Plane As previous posts stated, the mouth adjustment deopends on the depth ofcut.I bet the chip breakers on mine are set somewhere around 1/32" to 1/16". Ifussed until I get the cut I want. Make sure the edge of the chip breaker issquare and will not let chips get underneath it. I now have a Sargent 408 which I beleive is #3 sized. It is smaller that myStanley 4 or Millers Falls 9. It is a great all around plane. I think Istill prefer the Lie Nielsen #2 to get the last bit. I rough bevel thestrips big in the beveler and heat treat. Then,I usually hog off some canewith the #4, switch to do most of the planing with the Sargent 408, and thenget the last .020 or so with the #2 and the LN 212. While waiting for quadforms, I built Bob Nunley's 5' 2 wt one piece on Saturday. It went veryfast, and I got very nicely cut strips to glue up today. Sold on bench planes in Buffalo,Bob Maulucci -----Original Message----- Subject: ? Bench Plane few questions about using bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge of the chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on the effective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help, Kyle from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Mon Apr 22 16:09:04 2002 g3ML93428845 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 16:09:03 - Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:09:01 +0100 Subject: Chatsworth Game Fair May 2002 Anyone attending this years Chatsworth Fishing Fair and would like tomeet up with a few Bamboo rod buffs please contact me off thelist......thanks..Paul B from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Apr 22 18:10:53 2002 g3MNAq404055 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:10:52 - Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Todd, The on line (Frank Stetzer) version of hexrod takes values in any increment. You can then run the program and get a taper on an inch by inch basis. Then pick out your 5 inch intervals. There might be some error in the interpolation. Frank could comment on that. -Doug At 10:09 AM 4/22/2002 -0400, Todd Talsma wrote: OK. Do any of you mathemagicians out there have a formula or method toconvert tapers from rods measured at 6" stations to 5" stations? I'vegot quite a few and was wondering how y'all do it. (BTW, had to throw that obligatory y'all in there for Harry, since I'mthe dreaded Yankee)--Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464----- - web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 22 18:47:26 2002 g3MNlP404944 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:47:25 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 22 Apr 2002 18:44:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Reel seat tooling Thanks to all who responded. All of the tooling is spoken for. Thanks,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Reel seat tooling Anyone out there interested in Lathe Tooling to cut wedding band =(convex, 1/4" wide X 5/8" radius) reel seat sliding bands, contact me =offlist. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Hal Bacon should jump in here... the original Payne 98 had a step =down ferrule. The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You can =average the #'s out and use a 12/64 ferrule. 11/64th cuts a little too =much bamboo off IMHO. Al Medved and I have talked about this and Al has = spoken for. Thanks,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Bob =Nunley Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 = PMSubject: Reel seat =tooling Anyone out there interested in Lathe Tooling to = band (convex, 1/4" wide X 5/8" radius) reel seat sliding bands, = offlist. Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Dennishigham@cs.com rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = PM ferrulesMark, = The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You can average the = of 98's with 12/64 ferrules that cast really well. = from robin@coco.freeserve.co.uk Mon Apr 22 19:21:45 2002 g3N0Li406030 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:21:44 - helo=t9q1e0) id 16zo3x-0005gd-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:21:42 +0100 Subject: Hollow building I notice that there has been some correspondence on this in the past,but =it seemed inconclusive.As I am sure everyone knows that stiffness of anything which is a =regular polygon is proportional to the fourth power of the diameter.thus,if you increase all the dimensions by 10% you will arrive at a rod = If we are using a hollow structure however stiffness is proportional to =the fourth power of the outside diameter minus the fourth power of the =inside diameter.And it gets worse when it bends because of =ovality,because for an ellipse stiffness is proportional to the major =axis multiplied by the cube of the minor axis.Its late,you can do the =sums yourself!HOWEVER,assuming a degree of buttressing ,say every 6'',and wall =thicknesses not less than about 50 thou,which is a bit minimal,adding 5% =to the dimensions where hollow building has occurred seems to work.this =is because we are only hollow building the bit that doesn't bend much.If =you do it properly you can see that a concave taper will be formed over =this section,but I doubt that its worth the calculation,especially as I =doubt that much ovality will occur anyway,due to the buttressing.You can =always use a light er wood to fill the gap,but you still need the 5%.A =5% increase may seem trivial,but without hollow building it will make =the section 20% stiffer.You can now see why not correcting for hollow building will change the =feel of a rod for the worse.I hope this helps but i'm not volunterring for the job of calculator!RobinI wonder,were those lovely steep butts on 8103s and 4s because they were =hollow built? I notice that there has been some correspondence on this in the = seemed inconclusive.As I am sure everyone knows that stiffness of anything which is a = polygon is proportional to the fourth power of the diameter.thus,if you increase all the dimensions by 10% you will arrive at a = If we are using a hollow structure however stiffness is = fourth power of the outside diameter minus the fourth power of the = diameter.And it gets worse when it bends because of ovality,because for = ellipse stiffness is proportional to the major axis multiplied by the = the minor axis.Its late,you can do the sums yourself! thicknesses not less than about 50 thou,which is a bit minimal,adding 5% = dimensions where hollow building has occurred seems to work.this is = are only hollow building the bit that doesn't bend much.If you do it = you can see that a concave taper will be formed over this section,but I = that its worth the calculation,especially as I doubt that much ovality = occur anyway,due to the buttressing.You can always use a light er wood = the gap,but you still need the 5%.A 5% increase may seem trivial,but = hollow building it will make the section 20% stiffer. the feel of a rod for the worse.I hope this helps but i'm not volunterring for the job of =calculator!RobinI wonder,were those lovely steep butts on 8103s and 4s because they= from robin@coco.freeserve.co.uk Mon Apr 22 19:33:20 2002 g3N0XK406461 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:33:20 - helo=t9q1e0) id 16zoFA-00066J-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:33:18 +0100 Subject: Quads Quads are hardly new,but I have come to this debate late,so a few =observations.I am assuming that they are made of four triangular strips,if so the =stiffness for a given cross sectional area will increase by 2.65%,which =hardly warrants all the effort.If they are made by a lamination process then the stiffness will =certainly noticeably increase,but so will the weight,because we are =using more of the denser outer fibres,like in double building.But is it worth all the hassle with ferrules,queer looks,and an increase =in max.stress of about 11%?If the answer is no,but its fun and trendy,that's fine by me!Robin observations.I am assuming that they are made of four triangular strips,if so = stiffness for a given cross sectional area will increase by 2.65%,which = warrants all the effort.If they are made by a lamination process then the stiffness will = noticeably increase,but so will the weight,because we are using more of = denser outer fibres,like in double building.But is it worth all the hassle with ferrules,queer looks,and an = max.stress of about 11%?If the answer is no,but its fun and trendy,that's fine by me! from KyleDruey@aol.com Mon Apr 22 19:34:20 2002 g3N0YJ406624 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 19:34:19 - for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:34:03 - Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) Bill, Do I feel stupid, DOH... just crank in the opposite direction for the second wrap! My unit is constructed properly, but even though I live in CA, it sure ain't ac/dc. [:)] Kyle In a message dated 04/22/2002 4:48:44 AM Pacific Daylight Time,harms1@pa.net writes: Kyle,Why must you reverse the direction of feed for the cross-wrap? Can'tyousimply crank the wheel clockwise for the first wrap and counter- clockwise Is there something about the construction of your unit that preventsthis?I don't see the problem, 'cause mine is AC/DC.Cheers, Bill----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 7:07 PMSubject: Re: Four string binder (now 2- string Smithwick binder idea)Bill, thats an interesting idea, but wouldn't that be just the same as aMilward binder? I like the Smithwick binder but the only minor difficulty so far is if you want to reverse the wrap. To do this you must feed the rod in theoppositedirection. Normally, I pull the rod away from the tube as I warp, givingmeone half of a criss-cross style wrap. To get the other side of thecrossedwrap you feed the rod in to the tube and pull from the other end. Theproblem this creates for me is that the thread gets pulled inside the tube and sometimes breaks. I've polished the edge of the tube but it has nothelped much. I'm thinking of putting some type of fitting on the front of the tube, maybe half of a copper sweat union fitting, so that the threadhasa larger surface to run over. If you have any ideas on how to preventthreadbreaking while wrapping in to the tube I would be interested in hearingyou Kyle----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xg01.mx.aol.com (rly-xg01.mail.aol.com Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:48:44 -0400 rly-xg01.mx.aol. 2002 07:48: 23 -0400 Message-ID: From: "WILLIAM HARMS" References: Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea)Date: Mon, 22 Apr 2002 07:43:53 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX- Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Apr 22 20:22:28 2002 g3N1MS407985 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:22:28 - UAA18016 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations The online hexrod uses a straight line interpolation to getdimensions at 5 inch stations. Just like using graph paper,connecting the dots at the 6 inch points and reading offat the 5 inch points.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 22 Apr 2002, Douglas P. Easton wrote: Todd, The on line (Frank Stetzer) version of hexrod takes values in anyincrement. You can then run the program and get a taper on an inch by inchbasis. Then pick out your 5 inch intervals. There might be some error inthe interpolation. Frank could comment on that. -Doug from Michael.Roberts@health.wa.gov.au Mon Apr 22 20:51:53 2002 g3N1pp408876 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:51:52 - Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:51:53 +0800 (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:51:52 +0800 rodmakers Subject: RE: Quads Hi Robin,the legendary Bob Nunley (G'day mate) took one of his quadsdown to New Zealand for the "Real SRG". It's the only quad I've ever seenand it didn't look half as queer as I expected it to. Most of us had a shotat casting with it too, and I for one, was really surprised at how muchsheer grunt it had for such a dainty little rod. I'm not sure how muchhassle is involved but making a quad is certainly on my list of things todo.Stay luckyMike -----Original Message----- Subject: Quads Quads are hardly new,but I have come to this debate late,so a fewobservations.I am assuming that they are made of four triangular strips,if so thestiffness for a given cross sectional area will increase by 2.65%,whichhardly warrants all the effort.If they are made by a lamination process then the stiffness will certainlynoticeably increase,but so will the weight,because we are using more of thedenser outer fibres,like in double building.But is it worth all the hassle with ferrules,queer looks,and an increase inmax.stress of about 11%?If the answer is no,but its fun and trendy,that's fine by me!Robin from tedknott@cogeco.ca Mon Apr 22 20:57:05 2002 g3N1v4409195 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:57:04 - Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Several of my early forms have 6" centres, and several more recent formshave 5" centres. An easy way to convert is to mark the desired spacing onthe form with a felt tip marker, set the depth at these points, and adjustthe screws (where ever they are) to achieve the desired depth. from caneman@clnk.com Mon Apr 22 21:17:14 2002 g3N2HD410033 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:17:13 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:14:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Quads & Hollow building Robin, First, Welcome to the List! I read your post on both Quadrates =and Hollow Building with great interest. Please don't take the comments =that follow as an affront, they are just my experiences with Bamboo over =the past (we won't say how many) years. Robin wrote: Quads are hardly new,but I have come to this debate =late,so a few observations. But is it worth all the hassle with =ferrules,queer looks,and an increase in max.stress of about 11%? On the quad issue, believe it or not, it isn't just a savings in =mass and increase in max stress that makes quads better. They simply =cast better and are more accurate by far than a hex rod. To be honest, =the only reason (in my opinion) that quads were abandoned is that a hex =rod is MUCH easier to make than a quad rod. If you've never made a =quad, you have no idea what kind of problems must be encountered in it's =making! There are PLENTY of them! Even though I love the quads, every =time I get an order for one, I think to myself "Why in the hell did you =ever start building these things?", then I take my little 4 wt quad out =and lawn cast it and remember why... they are superior rods, in my =opinion... Much uglier, but superior...Keep in mind also that you aren't looking at a true quadrate. If =you look at the cross section on MOST quad rods, the outer flats are not =flat, they are rounded. This causes some funny things to happen when =you start converting from hex to quad... the numbers just don't work the =way they should... the conversion factor changes as the dimension =increases on a constant slope to get the action similar. Now, you'd =think that since the radius of the outer flats was a constant, that the =conversion factor from hex to quad of .93 would remain constant... well =it doesn't. Bamboo doesn't understand rules! In my experience, Bamboo =doesn't understand or listen to anything that it should logically listen =to... Robin wrote: if you increase all the dimensions by 10% you will =arrive at a rod which is 50% stiffer If we are using a hollow =structure however stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of the =outside diameter minus the fourth power of the inside diameter.And it =gets worse when it bends because of ovality,because for an ellipse =stiffness is proportional to the major axis multiplied by the cube of =the minor axis A 5% increase may seem trivial,but without hollow =building it will make the section 20% stiffer. You can now see why not =correcting for hollow building will change the feel of a rod for the =worse. On the hollow building. First, I'm an engineer by education and by =trade for some number of years... lost my mind and quit my job to do =this full time. One of the first things I learned about bamboo is that =it can't read, so it doesn't understand math or the laws of physics and =it refuses to abide by them... it knows nothing about modulus of =elasticity, stress, strain and so forth. It does NOT follow the rules =that are tried and true for other materials, even wood... or even bamboo =numbers that you can find in the back of some old engineering textbooks.Now, hollow building you must not only look at wall thickness, but =at the method by which you hollow the rod. Some plane the apex flat, =some plane it flat leaving dams in certain places, I hollow flute. When =I hollow flute, I leave an outer wall thickness of .080 at the bottom of =the rounded flute, the width of the flute being 3/32" (that is the width =I chose for some reason forgotten years ago). Now the problem with it =getting worse in bending because of it being a modified oval on the =inside is not only greatly diminished, but it is almost eliminated. =...almost, but not quite... The nature of the shape of the flute has =something to do with it, as does the increased surface area to be glued =when using a fluting method. Also, keep in mind that the flats are not =truly flat on most rods, so you now have an outer cross section that is =a bit of a hex, a bit of a circle! I only hollow flute on rods 6 wt and =over, but I do allow an increase in dimension on a constant slope =starting at (X)% at the ferrule station and ending at (X)% at the end of =the rod (sorry, there are some numbers that I just don't tell! *S*), but =it's nowhere near the number that I calculated it to be... I crunched =numbers for months on end to come up with a proper increase in dimension =to allow me to hollow flute yet retain the same feel in the rod, I wrote =spread sheets to calculate and plot on graphs, the stiffness of solid =vs. hollow built, I even bought Fox Pro to build a database to cover all =the probabilities and possibilities rendered from input (Fox Pro... man, =that should tell you how long ago that project started! I don't even =know if you can buy FoxPro anymore, unless it's in an antique store)... =Guess what? Bamboo can't do math either. It doesn't care if you have a =spreadsheet or not or how accurate your formulae are... It doesn't care =about dimensions as they SHOULD be, it didn't care that it should have =taken a LOT different change in dimension to retain feel... it just =didn't care to follow any of the rules! Just as with the quads, Bamboo =didn't really care what the numbers said or about what the rules we all =learned in Mechanics of Materials stated; all it cared about was being =and reacting differently than any other material I've ever worked with =or seen... The months of crunching numbers turned into building a 6 wt =rod full (unfluted) and building a dozen, or so, hollow fluted at =different increase in dimensionand comparing them (deflection board and =casting), throwing the bad ones in the trash, until I came up with one =that would react, bend and recover the similarly to the full built rod. =Even after I got that first one close, I discovered that the increase, =in order to properly emulate the feel with my tapers, could not be a =constant all the way down the butt section. It had to change as the =dimension increased... That makes absolutely no sense to my engineering =mind, but I had forgotten one important thing! Bamboo doesn't know any =more about engineering than it does about math or physics!Don't get me wrong... crunching numbers for things like this is =helpful, but in nearly 15 years of rodmaking, it has never rendered a =final result for me. It has always ended up being sweat and blood, =trial and error... I just had to get in the shop and build my ass off =until I found that magical point that worked for my rods. I've had =people swear to me (other engineer friends of mine, one especially, an =M.E. for a major appliance manufacturer) that this can't be... that the =numbers will not lie and that regardless of it being a natural material, =that it must follow certain laws... well, I learned a long time ago that =you can punch the numbers into the computer for a better rod, but that =don't make it a better rod, or as we say here in the Southern U.S., you = Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com that follow as an affront, they are just my experiences with Bamboo over = past (we won't say how many) years. = 11%? isn't just a savings in mass and increase in max stress that makes quads = abandoned is that a hex rod is MUCH easier to make than a quad = you've never made a quad, you have no idea what kind of problems must be = love the quads, every time I get an order for one, I think to myself = hell did you ever start building these things?", then I take my little 4 = = things to happen when you start converting from hex to quad... the = don't work the way they should... the conversion factor changes as the = that since the radius of the outer flats was a constant, that the = factor from hex to quad of .93 would remain constant... well it = to... = dimensions by 10% you will arrive at a rod which is 50% stiffer = we are using a hollow structure however stiffness is proportional to the = power of the outside diameter minus the fourth power of the inside = it gets worse when it bends because of ovality,because for an ellipse = is proportional to the major axis multiplied by the cube of the minor = building will change the feel of a rod for the worse. education and by trade for some number of years... lost my mind and quit = and it refuses to abide by them... it knows nothing about modulus of = and true for other materials, even wood... or even bamboo numbers that = find in the back of some old engineering textbooks. not = plane the apex flat, some plane it flat leaving dams in certain places, = bottom of the rounded flute, the width of the flute being = keep in mind that the flats are not truly flat on most rods, so you now = hollow flute on rods 6 wt and over, but I do allow an increase in = (X)% at the end of the rod (sorry, there are some numbers that I just = increase in dimension to allow me to hollow flute yet retain the same = stiffness of solid vs. hollow built, I even bought Fox Pro to build a = started! I don't even know if you can buy FoxPro anymore, unless it's in = doesn't care if you have a spreadsheet or not or how accurate your = are... It doesn't care about dimensions as they SHOULD be, it didn't = it just didn't care to follow any of the = Just as with the quads, Bamboo didn't really care what the numbers said = cared about was being and reacting differently than any other material = worked with or seen... The months of crunching numbers turned into = casting), throwing the bad ones in the trash, until I came up with one = after I got that first one close, I discovered that the increase, in = properly emulate the feel with my tapers, could not be a constant all = makes absolutely no sense to my engineering mind, but I had forgotten = does about math or physics! = things like this is helpful, but in nearly 15 years of rodmaking, it has = never rendered a final result for= mine, one especially, an M.E. for a major appliance manufacturer) that = can't be... that the numbers will not lie and that regardless of it = natural material, that it must follow certain laws... well, I learned a = time ago that you can punch the numbers into the computer for a better = that don't make it a better rod, or as we say here in the Southern U.S., = Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Apr 22 21:54:43 2002 g3N2sg411076 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 21:54:42 - Subject: Re: Quads In a message dated 4/23/2 1:06:44 AM, robin@coco.freeserve.co.uk writes: Robin - Welcome to the rodmakers list. The engineering math on 4 and 5 strip rods assumes a material of constant density and tensile strength. In fact, a witches brew of variables prevails, and nothing comes out exactly as predicted by the math. If anyone has all the answers, they sure haven't published them. from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Mon Apr 22 22:44:36 2002 g3N3iZ412598 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:44:35 - Mon, 22 Apr 2002 20:44:30 -0700 Subject: Re: Varathane, what is next? FILETIME=[2C801B20:01C1EA79] I just did three thin coats of Varathane over Pearsall's orange and blackjasper guide wraps. It preserved the color pretty well, but what is next? Dopeople leave it at that, or can I put a top coat of Man O War spar over it?I also have some Varmor, but I have grown to love the way man o war handlesand looks on top of guide wraps. But can spar be applied over varathane? I am too close to opening day to take a chance on this, hence the question. Jeff Schaeffer from jojo@ipa.net Mon Apr 22 22:52:12 2002 g3N3qC413047 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 22:52:12 -0500 helo=default) id 16zrLb-0006pW-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:52:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Varathane, what is next? More Varathane, Jeff. Once you have enough built up so that you can sandthe wraps flat and scuffthe surface, then you can apply a spar varnish to it. Once cured,polyurethane varnishes do not like solitary and lonelyexistence, lacking the generally gregarious nature of the Spar family. M-D I just did three thin coats of Varathane over Pearsall's orange and blackjasper guide wraps. It preserved the color pretty well, but what is next? Dopeople leave it at that, or can I put a top coat of Man O War spar over it?I also have some Varmor, but I have grown to love the way man o war handlesand looks on top of guide wraps. But can spar be applied over varathane? I am too close to opening day to take a chance on this, hence the question. Jeff Schaeffer from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 22 23:50:38 2002 g3N4oa414428 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:50:36 - "'Robin Haywood'" ,rodmakers Subject: RE: Quads I found quads are are like comparing a straight line engine with a rotary.A straight line engine develops a lot of power and peaks while the rotary just keeps developing it smoothly until it presumably disassembles it self with a bang if it's allowed to but it's hard to see where all the power is coming from. I know that's not mechanically correct it's what it seemed like the first time I used Bob's quad. Really impressive. Tony At 09:48 AM 4/23/02 +0800, Roberts, Michael wrote: Hi Robin,the legendary Bob Nunley (G'day mate) took one of his quadsdown to New Zealand for the "Real SRG". It's the only quad I've ever seenand it didn't look half as queer as I expected it to. Most of us had a shotat casting with it too, and I for one, was really surprised at how muchsheer grunt it had for such a dainty little rod. I'm not sure how muchhassle is involved but making a quad is certainly on my list of things todo.Stay luckyMike -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, 23 April 2002 8:32 Subject: Quads Quads are hardly new,but I have come to this debate late,so a fewobservations.I am assuming that they are made of four triangular strips,if so thestiffness for a given cross sectional area will increase by 2.65%,whichhardly warrants all the effort.If they are made by a lamination process then the stiffness will certainlynoticeably increase,but so will the weight,because we are using more of thedenser outer fibres,like in double building.But is it worth all the hassle with ferrules,queer looks,and an increase inmax.stress of about 11%?If the answer is no,but its fun and trendy,that's fine by me!Robin /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from rsgould@cmc.net Tue Apr 23 01:14:06 2002 g3N6E5416748 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 01:14:05 -0500 for ; Mon, 22 Apr 2002 23:13:50 -0700 Subject: Doug Easton Hi Doug,Please advise me as to your zip code, I wish to mail something to you.Ray Gould Hi Doug,Please advise me as to your zip code, I= mail something to you.RayGould from tim.watson@watsonsrods.co.uk Tue Apr 23 05:23:09 2002 g3NAN7419553 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 05:23:08 - helo=sysmtim) id 16zxRo-0007P7-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:22:56 +0100 Subject: Silk Weights Anyone out there got a comparison between silk weights?There's 50's, A's, 0's and over here, denier numbers.The web hasn't shown anything up so I guess there's someone cleveramongstyou lot who has worked it out!!ThanksTim. NormalDocumentEmail Anyone out there got a comparison between silk =weights? There’s 50’s, A’s, 0’s and over here,=denier numbers. The web hasn’t shown anything up so I guess there’s =someone cleveramongst you lot who has worked it =out!! Thanks Tim. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Apr 23 06:17:04 2002 g3NBH2420457 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:17:02 - g3NBGc919019; Subject: Re: 6" to 5" stations Todd It depends why you want to perform the transform. If you have a taper with the 6" measurements, surely you can just draw the6" scale on your forms with a felt pen and set the forms as usual, usingyour 5" shoulder bolts to perform the adjustments, but measuring at the6's. If you want to fiddle around with the slope, you could draw a detailed graphand extrapolate. Maybe I am more than usually obtuse tonight, but I am not really seeing theproblem here. HARRY - help me out again if I am missing something obvious. Cheers Peter from bob@downandacross.com Tue Apr 23 06:25:07 2002 g3NBP6420812 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:25:06 - Subject: RE: Silk Weights Rick Margiotta had it all figured out. I think I saw it on Clark Davis'swebsite.Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:24 AM Subject: Silk Weights Anyone out there got a comparison between silk weights? There's 50's, A's, 0's and over here, denier numbers. The web hasn't shown anything up so I guess there's someone cleveramongstyou lot who has worked it out!! Thanks Tim. NormalDocumentEmail @page Section1 {size: 595.3pt 841.9pt; margin: 72.0pt 90.0pt =72.0pt 90.0pt; mso-header-margin: 35.4pt; mso-footer-margin: 35.4pt; =mso- paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast- font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0cm 0cm 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-pagination: widow-orphan; mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}SPAN.EmailStyle15 { COLOR: black; mso-style-type: personal-compose; mso-ansi-font-size:=10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; =mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} website.Bob WatsonSent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:24 RodmakersSubject: Silk Weights weights? numbers. web hasn=92t shown anything up so I guess there=92s someone clever = who has worked it out!!ThanksTim. from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Apr 23 06:51:20 2002 g3NBpJ421719 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 06:51:19 - g3NBp9m27321; Subject: Re: Hollow building Er? Whassat again? That one went right by me! Peter Er? Whassat again? That one went right byme! Peter from Grnmtrds@aol.com Tue Apr 23 07:20:57 2002 g3NCKv422485 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:20:57 - for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:20:48 - Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got up with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from Mark.Sargent@state.vt.us Tue Apr 23 07:30:58 2002 g3NCUw422953 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:30:58 - id ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:30:57 -0400 Subject: RE: Snow or sunshine It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and in thelate 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July 4th...Fallbegins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...if youknow where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got up with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 23 07:37:07 2002 g3NCb6423312 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:37:07 -0500 (authenticated) Tue, 23 Apr 2002 05:36:59 -0700 Subject: Re: Varathane, what is next? MD, Are you sure you don't have that backwards? I seem to have found thatspar goes on quite nicelyover scuffed poly, but the polyurethane won't stick to an oil based varnish.Of course it's been a tough week around here, and my brain may well beplaying tricks on me. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: More Varathane, Jeff. Once you have enough built up so that you can sandthe wraps flat and scuffthe surface, then you can apply a spar varnish to it. Once cured,polyurethane varnishes do not like -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 23 07:49:50 2002 g3NCnn423880 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:49:49 - (authenticated) Tue, 23 Apr 2002 05:49:47 -0700 Subject: non Rodmaking Question about virus Friends, Over the last few days I've received severalstrange email messages that have me beyondsuspicious, almost paranoid. I get some messagethat's about 75k but seems to contain no data whenI open the message. There is no attachment, justthe message. Subject lines vary widely. One froma list member seemed to describe a dangerousvirus, but held no data. One subject was simply"Height." The messages use my correct email addressrather than having picked up an address off one ofmy webpages, so that makes me think they come fromsomeone who knows me and perhaps has my address intheir Address Book somewhere. I use Netscape and am thus immune to manyviruses, (virii?) but would hate to be the carrier computers. With the most recent virus scare, Irecently downloaded all the latest updates, ranthe programs, and found nothing. But I'd ratherbe safe than sorry. Thanks in advance,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 23 07:57:43 2002 g3NCvh424309 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:57:43 -0500 helo=default) id 16zzrC-0000JU-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:57:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Varathane, what is next? Harry, Key word there was "scuffed", as we both noted. Spar does adhere as well asone might expect toscuffed poly, but poly's in their cured, unscuffed state don't want much ofanything sticking tothem. M-D MD, Are you sure you don't have that backwards? I seem to have found thatspar goes on quite nicelyover scuffed poly, but the polyurethane won't stick to an oil based varnish.Of course it's been a tough week around here, and my brain may well beplaying tricks on me. Harry Jojo DeLancier wrote: More Varathane, Jeff. Once you have enough built up so that you can sandthe wraps flat and scuffthe surface, then you can apply a spar varnish to it. Once cured,polyurethane varnishes do not like -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from robin@coco.freeserve.co.uk Tue Apr 23 08:07:16 2002 g3ND7E424812 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:07:15 - helo=t9q1e0) id 17000k-0004XY-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:07:11 +0100 Subject: Quads and Hollows I know you are trying to be nice to a new contributor and avoid pointing =out that I had made considerable assumptions!Bamboo is neither homogenous nor consistent as a material,which pure =engineers find something of a pain.......The larger the cross section of a quad then the less square it becomes =and the nearer to the circle that the original culm displayed,it will =therefore suffer a reduction in relative stiffness which is calculable =and will,as bob says,require an exponential increase in diameter to =counteract.with hollow building we don't have anything like the problems that the =designers of composite rods do because our tubes are very thick walled =and,possibly, not continuous.Before we cry for them we might envy the =(fairly) predictable nature of their raw material however!But you have to start somewhere,and this involves making =assumptions,upon which experiment will enable you to make further =generalisations,of course.If you are right about bamboo not sticking to the rules then it must be =impossible to build any two rods which are adequately alike,and this is =not so.I mentioned my carpet pole and triangular former efforts =previously,combine this with very limited joinery experience,the wrong =plane,which I couldn't even sharpen well and you have a recipe for =disaster,yet such deflection tests as I was able to make showed results =well within 10%,both in terms of stiffness and shape of curve.in those days I was something of an unrealistic idealist and considered =this unsatisfactory!Then I got sidetracked into rebuilding interesting houses,and still =am,but this one is the last!I do not think that anyone can design and build any rod from zero and =get it right first time,what we can,and do,do is to start with a design =we half like and modify it until the action is as we want it.It is then =a matter of mathematics to vary its length and stiffness("POWER")(?) to =suit our requirements.Inevitably,in the act of doing this we may find that it is too heavy,so =we have to start all over again by hollow building until the result is =right.nobody can put the feel of a rod that exactly suits them directly into =numbers,but once we have the thing right then it is measurable =and,within the limits of the material and our own skills,reproducible.The better rodmakers used to test the curves against a whiteboard with =the curve drawn on it,with a constant loading,often a quarter circle(of =sorts),and this was known as its test curve.this was not only,as is =popularly supposed the pull needed to obtain this curve,but also the =actual shape of the curve.You can try it,but I tell you from experience =you wont like the scrap rate!If you do this with glass or carbon rods you may well find that the =variations are greater than expected,but my testing lacks sufficient =samples to comment in much more detail,except to say that early glass =rods were generally awful!I had always considered that fluting was merely a method used to provide = inconsistent as bamboo!the mechanical solution was to provide a lighter =wood core,but delamination can be a problem as you are mixing two =materials with very different Moduli and rates of recovery.I should =think that modern adhesives can cope with this,but I don't know.I do =know that I have been trying to get two different bits of wood to bond =at the spreader block of a landing net for about a week and the joint =still separates when tested.......When Bruce and Walker tried to make hexagonal carbon rods with a thin =layer of carbon bonded to a lighter core the things delaminated most =embarrassingly,perhaps they were ahead of bonding technology?As an additional observation,for a given material weight hollow rod =sections will be stiffer in torsion,probably enough to affect =feel,depending on casting style,of course.I have not worked out how to =counteract that yet!The numbers don't lie at all,but the skill of interpretation is the =skill of the craftsman as much as the engineer.Even then he needs to =have a very clear idea about what he wants to achieve,if this sounds =reasonable then imagine the problems that ensue when you have to =interpret the numbers to achieve what someone ELSE wants!It makes dealing with the most eccentric woman seem like a breeze!All this is very worrying for me because I am beginning to think that my =awful carpet poles were more consistent than I had previously =thought......they were certainly consistently horrible to work with!In those days we used to just plane the nodes flat,not even press them =in a vice,and certainly no soaking got done.Are there real advantages in =these refinements?the sainted carpet poles were very prone to developing splits in use,not =to mention strange sets,and efforts to improve things by heat treatment =made them unpredictably fragile.The last section had three strips of un =heat treated cane and three of treated cane,when I last asked it was =still intact,and looking just as strange as ever,apparently.since I =didn't charge him,on account of it being a test piece,he can sing!So,are the Dickerson butts hollow built,then?And never worry about affronting we English,we got immune to it when we =ran most of the world,and developed the art of either ignoring it or =being even worse in reply!ROBIN I know you are trying to be nice to a new contributor and avoid = Bamboo is neither homogenous nor consistent as a material,which = engineers find something of a pain.......The larger the cross section of a quad then the less square it = the nearer to the circle that the original culm displayed,it will = suffer a reduction in relative stiffness which is calculable and will,as = says,require an exponential increase in diameter to counteract.with hollow building we don't have anything like the problems that = and,possibly, not continuous.Before we cry for them we might envy the = predictable nature of their raw material however!But you have to start somewhere,and this involves making = course.If you are right about bamboo not sticking to the rules then it = impossible to build any two rods which are adequately alike,and this is = so.I mentioned my carpet pole and triangular former efforts = this with very limited joinery experience,the wrong plane,which I = sharpen well and you have a recipe for disaster,yet such deflection = was able to make showed results well within 10%,both in terms of = shape of curve. considered this unsatisfactory!Then I got sidetracked into rebuilding interesting houses,and still = this one is the last!I do not think that anyone can design and build any rod from zero = it right first time,what we can,and do,do is to start with a design we = requirements.Inevitably,in the act of doing this we may find that it is too = have to start all over again by hollow building until the result is =right.nobody can put the feel of a rod that exactly suits them directly = numbers,but once we have the thing right then it is measurable = limits of the material and our own skills,reproducible. with the curve drawn on it,with a constant loading,often a quarter = sorts),and this was known as its test curve.this was not only,as is = supposed the pull needed to obtain this curve,but also the actual shape = curve.You can try it,but I tell you from experience you wont like the = rate!If you do this with glass or carbon rods you may well find that the = variations are greater than expected,but my testing lacks sufficient = comment in much more detail,except to say that early glass rods were = awful!I had always considered that fluting was merely a method used to = adequate bonding in the days when adhesives were as inconsistent as bamboo!the mechanical solution was to provide a = wood core,but delamination can be a problem as you are mixing two = very different Moduli and rates of recovery.I should think that modern = can cope with this,but I don't know.I do know that I have been trying to = different bits of wood to bond at the spreader block of a landing net = a week and the joint still separates when tested.......When Bruce and Walker tried to make hexagonal carbon rods with a = embarrassingly,perhaps they were ahead of bonding technology?As an additional observation,for a given material weight hollow rod = sections will be stiffer in torsion,probably enough to affect = casting style,of course.I have not worked out how to counteract that =yet!The numbers don't lie at all,but the skill of interpretation is the = of the craftsman as much as the engineer.Even then he needs to have a = problems that ensue when you have to interpret the numbers to achieve = someone ELSE wants!It makes dealing with the most eccentric woman seem like a =breeze! thought......they were certainly consistently horrible to work =with!In those days we used to just plane the nodes flat,not even press = vice,and certainly no soaking got done.Are there real advantages in = refinements?the sainted carpet poles were very prone to developing splits in = mention strange sets,and efforts to improve things by heat treatment = unpredictably fragile.The last section had three strips of un heat = and three of treated cane,when I last asked it was still intact,and = as strange as ever,apparently.since I didn't charge him,on account of it = test piece,he can sing!So,are the Dickerson butts hollow built,then?And never worry about affronting we English,we got immune to it = most of the world,and developed the art of either ignoring it or being = worse in reply!ROBIN from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 23 08:09:20 2002 g3ND9J425105 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:09:19 - helo=default) id 17002g-0005k3-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:09:10 -0400 Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question about virus you just want topermanently delete something in Outlook Express, if you will hold the rightShift key, then pressDelete, a window will pop up asking if you're sure that you want topermanently delete thesemessages. Make the appropriate choice, and it's gone. Warning: there is noretrieval for these oncedeleted. M-D Friends, Over the last few days I've received severalstrange email messages that have me beyondsuspicious, almost paranoid . . .Thanks in advance,Harry from bob@downandacross.com Tue Apr 23 08:18:51 2002 g3NDIo426141 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:18:50 - Subject: RE: Snow or sunshine Yep. Last week 80 and Hendricksons. Changed about 40* in one night (a fewhours tops). This week frost and light snow showers. Weird stuff.Waiting for the locusts next,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got upwith 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 23 08:38:51 2002 g3NDcp427176 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:38:51 -0500 helo=default) id 1700VK-0007EC-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:38:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine Whist all you in the Northeast are experiencing late Winter, in Arkansas thetemp is in the mid-70sto 80s, with lows in the mid-40s to 50s. We even had temps in the 90s lastweek, causing us tobelieve that there were now only two seasons of the year, Summer andWinter. For all your dreadfulWinters up there, be quite thankful you don't truly know the meaning ofHELL, which is a Summer inthe South. Moving soon to a tropical island paradise, M-D Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got upwith 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from harms1@pa.net Tue Apr 23 08:48:03 2002 g3NDm2427746 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:48:02 - Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) Hi Kyle, Don't blame me for my binder's kinky ("not that there's anything wrong withthat," as Sinefield would say) proclivities. Smithwick is the goofball whodesigned the thing, but he's really a nice guy anyway. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) Bill, Do I feel stupid, DOH... just crank in the opposite direction for the second wrap! My unit is constructed properly, but even though I live in CA, it sure ain't ac/dc. [:)] Kyle from mbiondo@wuacn.wustl.edu Tue Apr 23 09:00:08 2002 g3NE08428714 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:00:08 - Organization: Washington University in St. Louis Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question about virus Harry seez... Over the last few days I've received severalstrange email messages that have me beyondsuspicious, almost paranoid. Harry, I also have been getting several "suspicious" messages addressed tothe list that have been blocked due to the sender not being a subscriber. I suspect some list member has been infected, and has passed it on to allthose in their address book. All list members should follow Harry's lead, and download the latest virus definitions and run them regularly. And as always, be very wary of any messages containing attachments, even from folks you know - they may be infected and not know it. Mike BiondoRodmakers Listguy from lblove@omniglobal.net Tue Apr 23 09:06:41 2002 g3NE6e429293 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:06:40 -0500 0000 (12.162.144.173) "Rodmakers discussion group" Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine g3NE6f429294 Over here in Texas we have 4 seasons;almost summer, summer, still summer, and deer season. if it wasnt for deer season we would not get any rain at all. It will be in the mid 80's today with sunshine all day Brad *********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/23/02 at 8:28 AM Jojo DeLancier wrote: Whist all you in the Northeast are experiencing late Winter, in Arkansasthe temp is in the mid-70sto 80s, with lows in the mid-40s to 50s. We even had temps in the 90s lastweek, causing us tobelieve that there were now only two seasons of the year, Summer andWinter. For all your dreadfulWinters up there, be quite thankful you don't truly know the meaning ofHELL, which is a Summer inthe South. Moving soon to a tropical island paradise, M-D From: Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got upwith 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 23 09:31:09 2002 g3NEV8400878 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:31:08 - (authenticated) for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 07:31:05 -0700 Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question about virus Folks, Just got a note from one of the suspicious emailers. Hesays that he did not email me, although he did visit mywebsite. Sure makes me wonder if he doesn't have some sortof infection. Thanks for all the advice,Harry Harry Boyd wrote: Over the last few days I've received severalstrange email messages that have me beyondsuspicious, almost paranoid. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from MasjC1@aol.com Tue Apr 23 09:45:58 2002 g3NEjw401918 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:45:58 - for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:45:48 - Subject: Re: Quads & Hollow building Bob, All I can say is that I'm sure glad that you are not in charge of the cooking at SRG. Mark Cole Bob, All I can say is that I'm sure glad that you are not in charge of thecooking at SRG. Mark Cole from stoltz10@attbi.com Tue Apr 23 09:59:12 2002 g3NExB402936 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:59:11 - Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine It sunny and in the sixties in Oregon----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Snow or sunshine It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and in the late 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July 4th...Fallbegins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...if you know where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got up with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Apr 23 10:17:48 2002 g3NFHl404329 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:17:47 - Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:17:04 -0400 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine FILETIME=[ECEFDCF0:01C1EAD9] grumble...why I oughta..various grunts and groans...if they only knew... Dirty rotten...at least we have the lake to keep us cool during thesummer...OY VAY!...OH and the blue ribbon trout streams within easydriving distance.. OK..I feel a lot better now. Tim Stoltz wrote: It sunny and in the sixties in Oregon----- Original Message -----From: "Sargent, Mark" Cc: Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 5:30 AMSubject: RE: Snow or sunshine It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and in the late 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July4th...Fallbegins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...if you know where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got up with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from rextutor@yahoo.com Tue Apr 23 10:41:32 2002 Received: from g3NFfV405959 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 Received: from [12.253.1.195] by web14908.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 23 Apr Rex Tutor Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Harry I have been recieving anumber of these type mails , too. Upon checking the attachments withNorton they were invected with a 98 / 95 worm. no problems just deleted -They never hit my pc because I use yahoo, but they are still a PITA! - -- HarryBoyd wrote: Folks, Just got a note from one of the suspiciousemailers. Hesays that he did not email me, although he did visitmywebsite. Sure makes me wonder if he doesn't havesome sortof infection. Thanks for all the advice,Harry Harry Boyd wrote: Over the last few days I've received severalstrange email messages that have me beyondsuspicious, almost paranoid. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from dickay@alltel.net Tue Apr 23 10:49:50 2002 g3NFnn406675 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:49:49 -0500 srv.alltel.net Subject: How sharp is sharp Dear List, I was out of town for a while and am just now catching up on thenewspapers that piled up during my absence. We obsess over getting our plane irons SHARP. According to an item fromL.M. Boyd's column of March 26, 2002, maybe we're using the wrong thingforplaning. I quote: "The Mayans over 4,000 years ago in their blood rituals used thesharpest knives that even now have ever been known to man. They weresharperthan our best boning cutlery, sharper than diamond scalpels and as much as500 times sharper than modern razor blades. They were made fromobsidian,volcanic glass. Might be hard to hold in a plane!Dick Fuhrman from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Apr 23 10:52:38 2002 g3NFqb407049 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:52:37 -0500 g3NFkgS17364 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:46:42 -0700 2002 -0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:52:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine g3NFqc407052 Here in Phoenix we've already had a few days surpassing 100*. Thats a littlehot even for Arizona. "But it's a dry heat" Fortunately the temps havebacked off into the 90*'s and the snow covered White Mountains are near.JimH from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Tue Apr 23 10:52:53 2002 g3NFqp407125 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:52:52 -0500 IAA27893; KAA04604; g3NFrD720072; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 08:52:27 -0700 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.eduSubject: RE: How sharp is sharp watched a special on discovery channel about Neanderthals and the edgestheygot were one molecule thick from split obsidian, "sharper than scalpels" Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: How sharp is sharp Dear List, I was out of town for a while and am just now catching up on thenewspapers that piled up during my absence. We obsess over getting our plane irons SHARP. According to an item fromL.M. Boyd's column of March 26, 2002, maybe we're using the wrong thingforplaning. I quote: "The Mayans over 4,000 years ago in their blood rituals used thesharpest knives that even now have ever been known to man. They weresharperthan our best boning cutlery, sharper than diamond scalpels and as much as500 times sharper than modern razor blades. They were made fromobsidian,volcanic glass. Might be hard to hold in a plane!Dick Fuhrman from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 23 10:59:01 2002 g3NFwx408011 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:58:59 - Jerry Foster Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question about virus I'm getting them too. I just oppened my mail and of 31 messages 8 were deleted without looking at them.The best way to deal with all this is delete if in doubt but it helps a hell of a lot if people *never* post attachments on list so there can be no doubt it's genuine if from the list.I know I've deleted what is quite possibly great stuff without looking simply because of this personal policy I have.You can't rely on anti virus software every time and there is a newish virus out there now that is supposed to be mutating so much there is no subject line to alert you and the only give away unless the subject is so weird it's a giveaway is there are tow attachments. Sorry but I can't remember what this one is called.It's a real bug bear with me because it really shouldn't be done on lists anyhow. Tony At 07:47 AM 4/23/02 -0500, Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, Over the last few days I've received severalstrange email messages that have me beyondsuspicious, almost paranoid. I get some messagethat's about 75k but seems to contain no data whenI open the message. There is no attachment, justthe message. Subject lines vary widely. One froma list member seemed to describe a dangerousvirus, but held no data. One subject was simply"Height." The messages use my correct email addressrather than having picked up an address off one ofmy webpages, so that makes me think they come fromsomeone who knows me and perhaps has my address intheir Address Book somewhere. I use Netscape and am thus immune to manyviruses, (virii?) but would hate to be the carrier computers. With the most recent virus scare, Irecently downloaded all the latest updates, ranthe programs, and found nothing. But I'd ratherbe safe than sorry. Thanks in advance,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 23 11:04:30 2002 g3NG4T408789 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:04:29 - "rodmakers" Subject: Re: Quads and Hollows Robin,you've definitely found a home on this list [:-)] I know you are trying to be nice to a new contributor and avoid pointing out that I had made considerable assumptions!Bamboo is neither homogenous nor consistent as a material,which pure engineers find something of a pain.......The larger the cross section of a quad then the less square it becomes and the nearer to the circle that the original culm displayed,it will therefore suffer a reduction in And never worry about affronting we English,we got immune to it when we ran most of the world,and developed the art of either ignoring it or being even worse in reply!ROBIN We know. Some day you'll meet a bloke from the frozen wastes of Canadawho hails from the UK whose name I cannot tell. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from caneman@clnk.com Tue Apr 23 11:12:50 2002 g3NGCn409594 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:12:50 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:10:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine Jim,Yep... a dry heat... I used to have a T-Shirt from Death Valley... onthe front it said "Death Valley, USA"... there was a drawing of a cactuswith a pile of cows bones laying in the sand at it's base, and the captionsaid "But it's a Dry Heat" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine Here in Phoenix we've already had a few days surpassing 100*. Thats a little hot even for Arizona. "But it's a dry heat" Fortunately the tempshave backed off into the 90*'s and the snow covered White Mountains arenear. JimH from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Tue Apr 23 11:22:15 2002 g3NGME410545 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:22:15 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:04:26 -0500 Subject: RE: How sharp is sharp In geology class, I learned that there are things called "cleavage planes"(get your minds out of the gutter, not that kind of cleaveage). These arenatural fracturing planes where rocks will tend to break when stress isapplied to them. Some minerals will break into perfect cubes (sodiumchloride or common table salt is a great example). Some break in torhombahedrons (sp?) which are kind of diagonal cubes, and the angles thatthey break at are unique to each mineral. Obsidian is one that has a verylow angle, and as Patrick stated, will leave an infinitesimally fine edge.Ask me how I know... I don't know how we'd ever sharpen them, getting a perfectly flat edge wouldbe tough because you have to break the piece to create the edge. Cool idea,though! Regards -- TAM -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: How sharp is sharp watched a special on discovery channel about Neanderthals and the edgestheygot were one molecule thick from split obsidian, "sharper than scalpels" from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 23 11:24:16 2002 g3NGOE410885 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:24:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine You think that's bad? Imagine Death Valley running from NY to LA with a strip of lawn around the edges and you have Australia. [:-)] At 11:11 AM 4/23/02 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote: Jim,Yep... a dry heat... I used to have a T-Shirt from Death Valley... onthe front it said "Death Valley, USA"... there was a drawing of a cactuswith a pile of cows bones laying in the sand at it's base, and the captionsaid "But it's a Dry Heat" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "James Harris" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:52 AMSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine Here in Phoenix we've already had a few days surpassing 100*. Thats a little hot even for Arizona. "But it's a dry heat" Fortunately the tempshave backed off into the 90*'s and the snow covered White Mountains arenear. JimH /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jvswan@earthlink.net Tue Apr 23 11:33:34 2002 g3NGXX411863 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:33:33 - (216.160.237.84) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429Subject: Re: How sharp is sharp All right, I know it is off topic, but I did see a Discovery Channel specialwhere a doctor actually used the stuff in an operation. I don't think thatis standard operating procedure (no pun intended), but the incisions weremuch cleaner and did heal quicker and with less scaring than similarincisions used with a scalpel. So, with this in mind, now we all know that if we were stranded on a desertisland, with plenty of obsidian and bamboo, we could probably eke out afinely planed split cane rod. We may lose a finger or two on the way,but... Jason from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Apr 23 11:35:36 2002 g3NGZZ412197 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:35:35 -0500 g3NGThS18503 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:29:43 -0700 2002 -0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 09:35:20 -0700 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine g3NGZZ412198 Bob,One of the local flyshops had a ball cap made with a fish skeletonembroidered on it. The caption reads, "But it's a Dry Fly"JimH "Bob Nunley" 04/23/02 09:11AM >>> Jim,Yep... a dry heat... I used to have a T-Shirt from Death Valley... onthe front it said "Death Valley, USA"... there was a drawing of a cactuswith a pile of cows bones laying in the sand at it's base, and the captionsaid "But it's a Dry Heat" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine Here in Phoenix we've already had a few days surpassing 100*. Thats a little hot even for Arizona. "But it's a dry heat" Fortunately the tempshave backed off into the 90*'s and the snow covered White Mountains arenear. JimH from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 23 11:47:43 2002 g3NGlg413171 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:47:42 - Subject: Re: D.J.Duck Equipment I'm not personally interested thank you but this message has been posted to a list of possibly interested people.Thank you for thinking to email me with this. Tony Young At 11:39 AM 4/23/02 -0500, you wrote: Hello:The widow of D.J. Duck, maker of custom bamboo fly rods, who passedaway during August 2001, has asked me to help her sell D.J.'s fine rod making equipment. If you have an interest in being emailed a list, plus prices, of his equipment for sale, please reply to this email. Thank you.John RixDallas, Tx /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 23 11:52:51 2002 g3NGqo413619 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:52:50 - Subject: Re: D.J.Duck Equipment Sorry guys,the email address if you're interested is:12ga@ev1.net TY At 12:55 AM 4/24/02 +0800, Tony Young wrote: I'm not personally interested thank you but this message has been posted to a list of possibly interested people.Thank you for thinking to email me with this. Tony Young At 11:39 AM 4/23/02 -0500, you wrote: Hello:The widow of D.J. Duck, maker of custom bamboo fly rods, who passedaway during August 2001, has asked me to help her sell D.J.'s fine rod making equipment. If you have an interest in being emailed a list, plus prices, of his equipment for sale, please reply to this email. Thank you.John RixDallas, Tx /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from Darryl.Hayashida@phs.com Tue Apr 23 12:23:27 2002 g3NHNR416250 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 12:23:27 - pri.pacificare.com 2002 17:27:58 UT (Tumbleweed ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 10:22:26 -0700 Subject: RE: How sharp is sharp Actually obsidian is a glass which is an amorphous liquid - only happens tobe solid a room temperatures. It has a conchoidal fracture, no cleavage. Ifit did have cleavage you couldn't get it nearly as sharp. Just as an aside,since glass at room temps is a supercooled liquid, the edge dulls on it'sown from the slow "flowing" of the glass. Just as the edges of a water dropis drawn back into the main body of the drop, so does the sharp edge of theobsidian. So after a few days - since the edge is so thin - it will getduller. Also, the edge isn't very durable - it breaks very easily. Darryl Hayashida - used to be a geologist, but I knew this because I used tobe a rockhound.P.S. went fishing at the Kern River Ca. last weekend and found a CaliforniaJade boulder. Alas, it was way to big to carry back to my car. -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 9:21 AM Cc: RodmakersSubject: RE: How sharp is sharp In geology class, I learned that there are things called "cleavage planes"(get your minds out of the gutter, not that kind of cleaveage). These arenatural fracturing planes where rocks will tend to break when stress isapplied to them. Some minerals will break into perfect cubes (sodiumchloride or common table salt is a great example). Some break in torhombahedrons (sp?) which are kind of diagonal cubes, and the angles thatthey break at are unique to each mineral. Obsidian is one that has a verylow angle, and as Patrick stated, will leave an infinitesimally fine edge.Ask me how I know... I don't know how we'd ever sharpen them, getting a perfectly flat edgewouldbe tough because you have to break the piece to create the edge. Cool though! Regards -- TAM -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:52 AM Subject: RE: How sharp is sharp watched a special on discovery channel about Neanderthals and the edgestheygot were one molecule thick from split obsidian, "sharper than scalpels" This electronic message transmission, including any attachments, containsinformation from PacifiCare Health Systems Inc. which may be confidentialor privileged. The information is intended to be for the use of the individualor entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, be aware thatany disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thisinformation is prohibited. If you have received this electronic transmission in error, please notify thesender immediately by a "reply to sender only" message and destroy allelectronic and hard copies of the communication, including attachments. from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Apr 23 13:17:01 2002 g3NIH0419114 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:17:00 - g3NIGxO11212 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:16:59 -0500 Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question about virus Harry,I have been getting at least three virus warnings thepast few days. It has me wondering also.I have been able to catch them with Norton.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, Over the last few days I've received severalstrange email messages that have me beyondsuspicious, almost paranoid. I get some messagethat's about 75k but seems to contain no data whenI open the message. There is no attachment, justthe message. Subject lines vary widely. One froma list member seemed to describe a dangerousvirus, but held no data. One subject was simply"Height." The messages use my correct email addressrather than having picked up an address off one ofmy webpages, so that makes me think they come fromsomeone who knows me and perhaps has my address intheir Address Book somewhere. I use Netscape and am thus immune to manyviruses, (virii?) but would hate to be the carrier computers. With the most recent virus scare, Irecently downloaded all the latest updates, ranthe programs, and found nothing. But I'd ratherbe safe than sorry. Thanks in advance,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from flytyr@southshore.com Tue Apr 23 13:31:57 2002 g3NIVv420392 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:31:57 - g3NIVtO15552 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:31:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine I had a poster in my place in Vermont that showed a farmer and his wifestanding by a fence with a barn in the background.A tourist asking" is it ever summer in Vermont" the farmer replying " Yep,lastyear it was on a Wednesday".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Sargent, Mark" wrote: It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and in thelate 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July 4th...Fallbegins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...if youknow where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got upwith 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from kenealyj@gwi.net Tue Apr 23 13:35:05 2002 g3NIZ4420815 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:35:04 - Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine What's Summer? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine I had a poster in my place in Vermont that showed a farmer and his wifestanding by a fence with a barn in the background.A tourist asking" is it ever summer in Vermont" the farmer replying " Yep, last year it was on a Wednesday".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Sargent, Mark" wrote: It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and in the late 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July 4th...Fall begins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...if you know where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got up with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Tue Apr 23 13:37:19 2002 g3NIbI421196 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:37:18 - LAA10897; LAA28657; g3NIbe726581; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:37:12 -0700 Subject: RE: Snow or sunshine we once had "a" summer here in Seattle, and we cut a calf on a rock andsacrificed him to the great bright orb in the sky, it really scared us. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine What's Summer? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine I had a poster in my place in Vermont that showed a farmer and his wifestanding by a fence with a barn in the background.A tourist asking" is it ever summer in Vermont" the farmer replying " Yep, last year it was on a Wednesday".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Sargent, Mark" wrote: It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and in the late 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July 4th...Fall begins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...if you know where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got up with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from Mark.Sargent@state.vt.us Tue Apr 23 13:51:01 2002 g3NIp0423872 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:51:00 - id ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:51:00 -0400 Subject: RE: Snow or sunshine Unfortunately, during last week we experienced temps up into the late 80'sand in some places the low 90's....I am hoping that we didn't experience oursummer already!!! I haven't even purchased any charcoal for the grillyet.... -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine I had a poster in my place in Vermont that showed a farmer and his wifestanding by a fence with a barn in the background.A tourist asking" is it ever summer in Vermont" the farmer replying " Yep,lastyear it was on a Wednesday".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Sargent, Mark" wrote: It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and in the late 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July 4th...Fallbegins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...if you know where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got up with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Tue Apr 23 13:55:18 2002 g3NItH424815 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:55:17 - Subject: RE: Snow or sunshine Summer in CT was last Tuesday, 93 degrees, beer and burgers by the poolside, after a full day of fishing a Hendrickson hatch and miscellaneousother bugs. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine What's Summer? ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine I had a poster in my place in Vermont that showed a farmer and his wifestanding by a fence with a barn in the background.A tourist asking" is it ever summer in Vermont" the farmer replying " Yep, last year it was on a Wednesday".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Sargent, Mark" wrote: It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and in the late 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July 4th...Fall begins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...if you know where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I got up with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from ctcaneman@yahoo.com Tue Apr 23 13:57:43 2002 g3NIvg425283 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 13:57:42 - Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:57:39 PDT Subject: RE: Snow or sunshine Glad to hear your not eating the fish!!--- Peter Van Schaack wrote: Summer in CT was last Tuesday, 93 degrees, beer andburgers by the poolside, after a full day of fishing a Hendricksonhatch and miscellaneousother bugs. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Of John KenealySent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:36 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine What's Summer? ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:31 PMSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine I had a poster in my place in Vermont that showed a farmer and his wife standing by a fence with a barn in the background.A tourist asking" is it ever summer in Vermont" the farmer replying " Yep,last year it was on a Wednesday".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Sargent, Mark" wrote: It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and inthe late 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July4th...Fall begins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...ifyou know where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I gotup with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from lblan@provide.net Tue Apr 23 14:08:51 2002 g3NJ8p426819 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:08:51 - with HTTP id 18952692 for ; Tue, 23 Apr2002 15:08:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine Wow... you folks are starting to make me feel bad. Weusually enjoy all 5 seasons in Michigan. Larry On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:37:03 -0700"Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: we once had "a" summer here in Seattle, and we cut a calfon a rock andsacrificed him to the great bright orb in the sky, itreally scared us. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:36 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine What's Summer? ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:31 PMSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine I had a poster in my place in Vermont that showed a farmer and his wife standing by a fence with a barn in the background.A tourist asking" is it ever summer in Vermont" the farmer replying " Yep,last year it was on a Wednesday".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Sargent, Mark" wrote: It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and inthe late 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July4th...Fall begins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...ifyou know where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I gotup with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 23 14:55:37 2002 g3NJtb400076 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 14:55:37 -0500 ;Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:55:31 +0000 Subject: Re: How sharp is sharp The problem is all the Mayans had to do was cut open a human chest fastenough to extract a beating human heart so they could take a bite out of it.I don't know it the obsidian would hold up to the demands of bamboo. Steve ----- Original Message ----- Subject: How sharp is sharp Dear List, I was out of town for a while and am just now catching up on the newspapers that piled up during my absence. We obsess over getting our plane irons SHARP. According to an item fromL.M. Boyd's column of March 26, 2002, maybe we're using the wrong thing for planing. I quote: "The Mayans over 4,000 years ago in their blood rituals used thesharpest knives that even now have ever been known to man. They were sharper than our best boning cutlery, sharper than diamond scalpels and as muchas500 times sharper than modern razor blades. They were made fromobsidian,volcanic glass. Might be hard to hold in a plane!Dick Fuhrman from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Tue Apr 23 16:35:53 2002 g3NLZq405836 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 16:35:52 - Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine 5 Seasons? I only know Trout, Deer, Winter and Construction! What's the5th?? Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine Wow... you folks are starting to make me feel bad. Weusually enjoy all 5 seasons in Michigan. Larry On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:37:03 -0700"Coffey, Patrick W" wrote: we once had "a" summer here in Seattle, and we cut a calfon a rock andsacrificed him to the great bright orb in the sky, itreally scared us. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:36 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine What's Summer? ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:31 PMSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine I had a poster in my place in Vermont that showed a farmer and his wife standing by a fence with a barn in the background.A tourist asking" is it ever summer in Vermont" the farmer replying " Yep,last year it was on a Wednesday".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Sargent, Mark" wrote: It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late 40's today and inthe late 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day of summer...July4th...Fall begins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...the fishing is great...ifyou know where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like mad yesterday and I gotup with 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont from richjez@enteract.com Tue Apr 23 17:14:36 2002 g3NMEa407983 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:14:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine Now Tony you might be mistaken. The things in NY that are the size of roos are called rats. Rich At 11:31 AM 4/23/2002, Tony Young wrote: You think that's bad? Imagine Death Valley running from NY to LA with a strip of lawn around the edges and you have Australia. [:-)] At 11:11 AM 4/23/02 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote: Jim,Yep... a dry heat... I used to have a T-Shirt from Death Valley... onthe front it said "Death Valley, USA"... there was a drawing of a cactuswith a pile of cows bones laying in the sand at it's base, and the captionsaid "But it's a Dry Heat" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "James Harris" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:52 AMSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine Here in Phoenix we've already had a few days surpassing 100*. Thats a little hot even for Arizona. "But it's a dry heat" Fortunately the tempshave backed off into the 90*'s and the snow covered White Mountains arenear. JimH /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 23 18:12:15 2002 g3NNCE410361 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:12:14 -0500 helo=default) id 1709SD-0005PK-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:12:10 -0400 Subject: Re: Quads and Hollows Yes, Robin seems to over think the problem, analyze, then drown in theminutiae. He's definitelyright at home here. ;o) M-D Robin,you've definitely found a home on this list [:-)] I know you are trying to be nice to a new contributor and avoid pointingout that I had made considerable assumptions!Bamboo is neither homogenous nor consistent as a material,which pureengineers find something of a pain.......The larger the cross section of a quad then the less square it becomes andthe nearer to the circle that the original culm displayed,it willtherefore suffer a reduction in And never worry about affronting we English,we got immune to it when weran most of the world,and developed the art of either ignoring it or beingeven worse in reply!ROBIN We know. Some day you'll meet a bloke from the frozen wastes of Canadawhohails from the UK whose name I cannot tell. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 23 18:15:12 2002 g3NNFB410640 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:15:11 -0500 helo=default) id 1709V7-000641-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:15:09 -0400 Subject: Re: D.J.Duck Equipment Some of this stuff is listed on eBay right now. The user name is either the e- mail address quotedbelow, or just 12ga M-D Sorry guys,the email address if you're interested is:12ga@ev1.net TY At 12:55 AM 4/24/02 +0800, Tony Young wrote: I'm not personally interested thank you but this message has been postedto a list of possibly interested people.Thank you for thinking to email me with this. Tony Young At 11:39 AM 4/23/02 -0500, you wrote: Hello:The widow of D.J. Duck, maker of custom bamboo fly rods, who passedawayduring August 2001, has asked me to help her sell D.J.'s fine rod makingequipment. If you have an interest in being emailed a list, plusprices, of his equipment for sale, please reply to this email. Thank you.John RixDallas, Tx /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Tue Apr 23 18:28:23 2002 g3NNSM411371 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:28:22 - for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:28:30 - Subject: Re: Quads and Hollows Robin;To answer about the only part of your post that my simple mind cangrasp, No, the Dickerson tapers in the archives are not hollowbuilt, butI see no reason why they couldn't be. I do know a few of the guys havemade them hollow. Are you sure your carpet poles were ArundinariaAmabilis, or some other type of bamboo? It sounds to me like you wereusing a fraud and not the real thing.Due mostly to the influence of JimPayne, small nodes, which are the result of heating and straightening,have become one of the hallmarks of a quality bamboo rod, but manythousands more were made by just knocking the bumps off on a drumsander, so I suppose it is up to the maker to decide for himself if theextra effort is worth it or not. For handplaners, it is as much a matterof not tearing out the grain at the nodes as cosmetics, crooked nodesjust lead to disaster in the planing forms. I will leave the realms oftheory to those more capable of it, for myself, there are enough knowntapers of good rods out there to keep me busy for quite some time, I'llget around to experimenting with quads and otherwise re-inventing thewheeel when I get bored with what's already available in 6 sided tapers.john Robin Haywood wrote: I know you are trying to be nice to a new contributor and avoidpointing out that I had made considerable assumptions! from Eastkoyfly@aol.com Tue Apr 23 19:05:20 2002 g3O05J412423 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:05:19 - Subject: Re: D.J.Duck Equipment I have a few of Douglas Ducks block planes, his wife shipped them to me about a month and a half ago. His planes are in service once again!!! Joseph A. Perrigowww.geneseevalleyrods.com5733 Griffith Rd.Portageville,NY 14536585-493-2637 from Jkvseafood@aol.com Tue Apr 23 19:06:49 2002 g3O06m412613 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:06:48 - Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question about virus i had these for 2 days also. didn't open any . john from dpeaston@wzrd.com Tue Apr 23 19:23:05 2002 g3O0N4413276 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:23:04 - "Rodmakers" Subject: RE: Silk Weights At 07:09 AM 4/23/2002 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi All,I just happened to copy and stow away Ricks data. Size 50 is roughly equivalent to Size A.I did some tests several months ago. I marked off about 1/2" on a woodendowel and counted the number of revolutions it took with each size ofthread.I repeated the test with different spools of thread, but the results werealmost exactly the same. Here's what I found:Silk Wraps/0.5" IndexGossamer 108 0.67YLI #100 (3/0) 103 0.70Naples 87 0.83Rice 00 (old stock) 84 0.86Belding Corticelli A 78 0.92Tire #50 75 0.96YLI #50 72 1.00Janome #50 72 1.00Gudebrod 00 (modern) 72 1.00 --Rich "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas- microsoft-com:office:word">Rick Margiotta had it all figured out. I think I saw it on Clark Davis's website.Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Tim WatsonSent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:24 AM Subject: Silk Weights Anyone out there got a comparison between silk weights?There's 50's, A's, 0's and over here, denier numbers.The web hasn't shown anything up so I guess there's someone cleveramongst you lot who has worked it out!!ThanksTim. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from Lazybee45@aol.com Tue Apr 23 19:35:30 2002 g3O0ZT413958 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:35:29 - Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine In a message dated 4/23/02 7:21:29 AM Central Daylight Time,Grnmtrds@aol.com writes: Don't know about you guys, but I got something about "you might be from the midwest if.... and one part was "...you have had the A/C and the heat on in the same day!" Monday I had teh heat on in the truck in the morning and by noon had to turn the A/C back on! Last Monday it was 90 degrees, Thursdaywe had tornados and T-storms, On Saturday we were under a winter stormwatch. Boy, I LOVE weather. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from Jfoster@sunset.net Tue Apr 23 19:42:15 2002 g3O0gE414526 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:42:14 - g3O0gCVI013792 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:42:13 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: Quads and Hollows Quality or cosmetic quality? i am stll doubious of that much heat being applied at a concentrated area.. if you test some bad cane with heat treating you will find the cane breaks cleanly at the edge of the node almost every time.. no stringing..like many of the things we do to the cane, glueing it with the nodes offset makes up for a lot of evils.. mho jerry from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 23 19:47:19 2002 g3O0lJ414927 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:47:19 -0500 helo=default) id 170AwF-0006bP-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:47:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine It's the US military controlling the weather. I'm telling you, boys. Do a websearch for "HAARPProject". ;o) M-D In a message dated 4/23/02 7:21:29 AM Central Daylight Time,Grnmtrds@aol.comwrites: Don't know about you guys, but I got something about "you might be from themidwest if.... and one part was "...you have had the A/C and the heat on inthe same day!" Monday I had teh heat on in the truck in the morning and bynoon had to turn the A/C back on! Last Monday it was 90 degrees, Thursdaywehad tornados and T-storms, On Saturday we were under a winter stormwatch.Boy, I LOVE weather. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Tue Apr 23 20:16:56 2002 g3O1Gf417597 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:16:46 -0500 Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:16:40 PDT Subject: fred waara t.u.banquet greetings all! i just got back from the north countryand thought i would share a bit of my weekend withyou. i attended the annual trout unlimited festivitiesin marquette michigan this weekend and made some newfriends. one new friend was john long, of this list.the consensus of the rodmakers and families presentwas that rodmaking is a disease with the only curebeing death. (you know there is a lot of truth herebut not all that much humor if you think about it)john donated a really sweet 1 pc for auction that drew$725.00 to be used for the local trout unlimited youthprogram specifically. congradulations to you john! timothy ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Tue Apr 23 20:21:20 2002 g3O1LJ418314 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:19 - Subject: Muchas gracias. Hola a todos. Quiero agradecer los graficos recibidos, fueron de mucha =ayuda para mi. Hay algo que me llama la atencion y es el quiebre que =muestra la garfica en la estacion 50 - 55. Yo modificare la punta de la =ca=F1a y la voy a hacer mas fina. Otra pregunta que tengo es como Tony =desplaza los nodos, yo no lo puedo entender por medio de la traduccion. =Tambien me gustaria saber mejor cuanto es la proporcion de acertato que =se debe mesclar con acetona para la impregnacion de los ferules de =bambu. Yo deseo probar si puedo construir algunos, y ver como se adaptan =a mis ca=F1as, si eso me diera resultado yo podria solucionar el =problema que tengo, al no conseguir en Argentina el Nikel Silver. Bueno =con esto yo creo que ya moleste lo suficiente por hoy, ya para ma=F1ana =pensare en algo nuevo. Tambien estory tratando de aprender a usar el =programa Hexrod. Yo les saludo afectuosamente a todos los amigos y =compadres :-))). Hasta siempre. Alberto. La avispa. Hello to all. I want to thank the received graphics, they were of a lot =of help for my. There is something that gets me the attention and it is =the one it breaks that it shows the garfica in the station 50 - 55. I =will modify the tip of the cane and I will make it but it dies. Another =question that I have it is as Tony it displaces the nodes, I cannot =understand it by means of the translation. I would also like to know =better as much as it is the acertato proportion that owes you mesclar =with nail polish remover for the impregnation of the bamboo ferules. I =want to prove if I can build some, and to see like they adapt to my =canes, if that occurred result I could solve the problem that I have, =when not getting in Argentina the Nikel Silver. Good therewith I believe =that it already bothers enough per today, already for tomorrow I will =think of something new. Also estory trying to learn how to use the =program Hexrod. I greet all the friends and godfathers affectionately: = Hola a todos. Quiero agradecer los graficos recibidos, fueron de = para mi. Hay algo que me llama la atencion y es el quiebre que muestra = garfica en la estacion 50 - 55. Yo modificare la punta de la ca=F1a y la = hacer mas fina. Otra pregunta que tengo es como Tony desplaza los nodos, = lo puedo entender por medio de la traduccion. Tambien me gustaria saber = cuanto es la proporcion de acertato que se debe mesclar con acetona para = impregnacion de los ferules de bambu. Yo deseo probar si puedo construir = algunos, y ver como se adaptan a mis ca=F1as, si eso me diera resultado = solucionar el problema que tengo, al no conseguir en Argentina el Nikel = Bueno con esto yo creo que ya moleste lo suficiente por hoy, ya para = pensare en algo nuevo. Tambien estory tratando de aprender a usar el = Hexrod. Yo les saludo afectuosamente a todos los amigos y compadres = siempre. Alberto. La avispa.Hello to all. I want to thank the received graphics, they were of a = help for my. There is something that gets me the attention and it is the = breaks that it shows the garfica in the station 50 - 55. I will modify = of the cane and I will make it but it dies. Another question that I have = translation. I would also like to know better as much as it is the = proportion that owes you mesclar with nail polish remover for the = of the bamboo ferules. I want to prove if I can build some, and to see = adapt to my canes, if that occurred result I could solve the problem = have, when not getting in Argentina the Nikel Silver. Good therewith I = that it already bothers enough per today, already for tomorrow I will = something new. Also estory trying to learn how to use the program = greet all the friends and godfathers affectionately: -))). Until always. = Alberto. The wasp. from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Tue Apr 23 20:28:47 2002 g3O1Sj418726 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:28:45 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 170BYE-0005uj-00; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:26:30 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question about virus Has anyone had this problem with McAfee Virus Scan? Bought it 4 months ago and am now getting message on boot up "Virus Scan's license has expired. To continue using, you must purchase the product". One of our systems guys said somebody had cntacted McAfee and was told it is a glitch in the program, and was given instructions on how to correct, which involved getting into the systems files, something I am loathe to do. I stopped at Office Depot where I bought it to ask and there was an elderly couple complaining about the same thing; naturally the clerk had no clue. If it is a glitch, it sound deliberate to me. I realize that I will need to pay for the updates, but after 4 months? Any ideas before I start the hassle of trying to contact McAfee? Jojo DeLancier wrote: you just want topermanently delete something in Outlook Express, if you will hold the rightShift key, then pressDelete, a window will pop up asking if you're sure that you want topermanently delete thesemessages. Make the appropriate choice, and it's gone. Warning: there is noretrieval for these oncedeleted. M-D From: "Harry Boyd" Friends, Over the last few days I've received severalstrange email messages that have me beyondsuspicious, almost paranoid . . .Thanks in advance,Harry from jojo@ipa.net Tue Apr 23 20:38:17 2002 g3O1cG419242 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:38:16 -0500 helo=default) id 170BjZ-0004gx-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:38:14 -0400 Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question about virus Your license may (or may not) have expired, but that is for the upgradesonly. You will still beable to update your DAT files through the McAfee site. I'd still contactMcAfee and get the fix fromthem. M-D Has anyone had this problem with McAfee Virus Scan? Bought it 4 monthsago and am now getting message on boot up "Virus Scan's license hasexpired. To continue using, you must purchase the product". One of oursystems guys said somebody had cntacted McAfee and was told it is aglitch in the program, and was given instructions on how to correct,which involved getting into the systems files, something I am loathe todo. I stopped at Office Depot where I bought it to ask and there wasan elderly couple complaining about the same thing; naturally the clerkhad no clue. If it is a glitch, it sound deliberate to me. I realizethat I will need to pay for the updates, but after 4 months? Any ideas before I start the hassle of trying to contact McAfee? from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Tue Apr 23 20:55:33 2002 g3O1tW420162 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:55:32 - (authenticated) Tue, 23 Apr 2002 18:55:25 -0700 Subject: Guide feet (was Re: Quads and Hollows) John, Just thought I'd say thanks for a great tip you passed along a few weeksback. I just ground down a handful of bronze Snake Brand Guides to theshape I like, which is just a touch different than Mike supplies them.Touched them up on a Cratex wheel to polish them (Thanks JZ). To restorethe color to the ground guide feet, I just dipped a Q-tip in Dave LeClair'sbluing solution, and dabbed a little on the feet. Rinsed with water, andyou can hardly tell the feet were ground at all. Who says I don't owe this list anything? One tip and I had toacknowledge the contributions of three list members! Thanks,Harry channer wrote: I'll get around to experimenting with quads and otherwise re-inventing thewheeel when I get bored with what's already available in 6 sided tapers. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Apr 23 22:03:50 2002 g3O33n422168 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:03:49 - for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:03:06 - Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine There's just Football season and Trout season. I was messing around with some Hide glue tonight. Brings a whole newmeaning to the term stinky finger. That hide glue is disgusting! In a message dated 04/23/2002 2:36:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bdcbfr@chartermi.net writes: 5 Seasons? I only know Trout, Deer, Winter and Construction! What's the5th??Brian----- Original Message -----From: Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 3:08 PMSubject: Re: Snow or sunshineWow... you folks are starting to make me feel bad. Weusually enjoy all 5 seasons in Michigan. Larry On Tue, 23 Apr 2002 11:37:03 -0700"Coffey, Patrick W" wrote:we once had "a" summer here in Seattle, and we cut a calfon a rock andsacrificed him to the great bright orb in the sky, itreally scared us. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 11:36 AM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine What's Summer? ----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Spezio" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 2:31 PMSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine I had a poster in my place in Vermont that showed afarmer and his wifestanding by a fence with a barn in the background.A tourist asking" is it ever summer in Vermont" thefarmer replying " Yep,lastyear it was on a Wednesday".Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com "Sargent, Mark" wrote: It did snow!... the temps however will be in the late40's today and inthelate 50's tomorrow! In Vermont we have one day ofsummer...July4th...Fallbegins July 5th...Regardless of the weather...thefishing is great...ifyouknow where to fish! Mark/Montpelier, Vermont -----Original Message----- Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:21 AM Subject: Snow or sunshine Guys, I don't know were you are at, but It snowed like madyesterday and I gotupwith 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. cheers,Jim/Vermont ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa04.mx.aol.com (rly-xa04.mail.aol.com Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:36:39 -0400 rly- Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:36:20 -0400 g3NLaG405895; Received: from proxy2-grandhaven0.chartermi.net (24.247.15.40.gha.mi. g3NLZq405836 g3NLZMa22496; Message-ID: From: "Brian D. Creek" References: Subject: Re: Snow or sunshineDate: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 17:35:57 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX- Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Apr 23 22:10:15 2002 g3O3AE423812 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:10:14 - Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thanks everyone for the suggestions on using the bench plane. I was able to fiddle with it until I could make some smooth cuts. While the bench plane cuts nicely, it does not give me as good a feel as the 9 1/2 block plane does. If only the cutting ability of the bench plane could be combined with the feel of the block plane... is there such a plane out there that is like that? In a message dated 04/23/2002 5:21:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time, homes- sold@attbi.com writes: Kyle,The only thing I would add to what Tony said is: Make sure the back of theIorn is flat.Don----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:43 AMSubject: Re: ? Bench PlaneIt's all related to the depth of cut as is the width of the mouth.Unless you're taking the cut really close to the stage you need the blockplane for try setting the frog so the mouth's opened 2mm and the chipbreaker about the same back from the edge of the iron and just mess withsettings from there.If the chip breaker is too far back you'll get lifting and too close andclogging will result because the curls will jam the mouth.Do a couple of things before you start though. First make sure the chipbreaker is set fair against the iron with no gap showing at all else theshavings will clog there, also make sure the iron is sharp or you'll beblaming the settings for any problems you may encounter.TonyAt 10:26 AM 4/22/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: got a few questions about using bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge of the chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on the effective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help, Kyle /*************************************************************************/AV YoungVisit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html"Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:33 -0400 0423202109; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:09 -0400Received: (qmail 28122 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2002 00:11:31 -0000Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.arnet.com.ar) (200.45.0.5) Received: from mail pickup service by mail2.arnet.com.ar with Microsoft Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:06:07 -0300 with Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:24 -0300 mx2.arnet.com.ar Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:08 -0300 Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:02:03 -0300 g3MEuW425739; Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com g3MEuG425688for from KyleDruey@aol.com Tue Apr 23 22:12:32 2002 g3O3CW424092 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:12:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine You are in trouble now, just keep an eye out for those black helicopters... In a message dated 04/23/2002 5:48:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jojo@ipa.net writes: It's the US military controlling the weather. I'm telling you, boys. Do a web search for "HAARPProject". ;o)M-DFrom: In a message dated 4/23/02 7:21:29 AM Central Daylight Time,Grnmtrds@aol.comwrites:upwith 4 inches of the dreaded white stuff all around. Don't know about you guys, but I got something about "you might be fromthemidwest if.... and one part was "...you have had the A/C and the heat on inthe same day!" Monday I had teh heat on in the truck in the morning and by noon had to turn the A/C back on! Last Monday it was 90 degrees,Thursday wehad tornados and T-storms, On Saturday we were under a winter stormwatch.Boy, I LOVE weather.markvisit Wood Art Custom Designshttp://woodartcustom.freeservers.comorhttp://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.htmlHand crafted items made to order!----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xe01.mx.aol.com (rly-xe01.mail.aol.com Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:48:02 -0400 rly- Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:47:44 -0400 g3O0lc414976; Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net (granger.mail.mindspring.net [207. g3O0lJ414927 Received: from 208-149-40-169.dial-up.ipa.net ([208.149.40.169] helo=default) Message-ID: From: "Jojo DeLancier" References: Subject: Re: Snow or sunshineDate: Tue, 23 Apr 2002 19:45:49 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX- Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from rmoon@ida.net Tue Apr 23 22:25:46 2002 g3O3Pj424744 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:25:45 - 0000 Subject: Re: non Rodmaking Question about virus I had the same problem with a new computer, and I never did get an answer from the on line help.However, I did find that my clock had been set wrong. I never look at it so Ididn't notice. I had itset for August instead of February. Check to be sure it is right. I think thefree use is only about 6months before you have to renew.Ralph crmitchell wrote: Has anyone had this problem with McAfee Virus Scan? Bought it 4 monthsago and am now getting message on boot up "Virus Scan's license hasexpired. To continue using, you must purchase the product". One of oursystems guys said somebody had cntacted McAfee and was told it is aglitch in the program, and was given instructions on how to correct,which involved getting into the systems files, something I am loathe todo. I stopped at Office Depot where I bought it to ask and there wasan elderly couple complaining about the same thing; naturally the clerkhad no clue. If it is a glitch, it sound deliberate to me. I realizethat I will need to pay for the updates, but after 4 months? Any ideas before I start the hassle of trying to contact McAfee? Jojo DeLancier wrote: maybe you just want topermanently delete something in Outlook Express, if you will hold the rightShift key, then pressDelete, a window will pop up asking if you're sure that you want topermanently delete thesemessages. Make the appropriate choice, and it's gone. Warning: there isno retrieval for these oncedeleted. M-D From: "Harry Boyd" Friends, Over the last few days I've received severalstrange email messages that have me beyondsuspicious, almost paranoid . . .Thanks in advance,Harry --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from bpsj@brtc.net Tue Apr 23 22:26:18 2002 g3O3QG424836 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:26:16 - ;Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:30:17 -0500 Subject: turning does anyone know how to make a wedding band style ring.i cant seem to =grind one. does anyone know how to make a wedding band style= seem to grind one. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 23 22:40:00 2002 g3O3dw425709 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:39:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Snow or sunshine If they were that big we'd treat them like they were wombats [:-)] Hint here. NEVER hit a wombat at 120 mph on a motor cycle, I know why. Tony At 05:13 PM 4/23/02 -0500, Rich Jezioro wrote: Now Tony you might be mistaken. The things in NY that are the size of roos are called rats. Rich At 11:31 AM 4/23/2002, Tony Young wrote: You think that's bad? Imagine Death Valley running from NY to LA with a strip of lawn around the edges and you have Australia. [:-)] At 11:11 AM 4/23/02 -0500, Bob Nunley wrote: Jim,Yep... a dry heat... I used to have a T-Shirt from Death Valley... onthe front it said "Death Valley, USA"... there was a drawing of a cactuswith a pile of cows bones laying in the sand at it's base, and the captionsaid "But it's a Dry Heat" Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "James Harris" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 10:52 AMSubject: Re: Snow or sunshine Here in Phoenix we've already had a few days surpassing 100*. Thatsa little hot even for Arizona. "But it's a dry heat" Fortunately the tempshave backed off into the 90*'s and the snow covered White Mountainsarenear. JimH /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 23 22:49:52 2002 g3O3no426181 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:49:51 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane You get used to it pretty fast if you keep doing it and one handed use becomes second nature in time but you do need to keep the iron sharp just like always. Tony At 11:09 PM 4/23/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Thanks everyone for the suggestions on using the bench plane. I was abletofiddle with it until I could make some smooth cuts. While the bench planecuts nicely, it does not give me as good a feel as the 9 1/2 block planedoes. If only the cutting ability of the bench plane could be combined withthe feel of the block plane... is there such a plane out there that is likethat? In a message dated 04/23/2002 5:21:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,homes- sold@attbi.com writes: Kyle,The only thing I would add to what Tony said is: Make sure the back of theIorn is flat.Don----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:43 AMSubject: Re: ? Bench Plane It's all related to the depth of cut as is the width of the mouth.Unless you're taking the cut really close to the stage you need the blockplane for try setting the frog so the mouth's opened 2mm and the chipbreaker about the same back from the edge of the iron and just messwithsettings from there.If the chip breaker is too far back you'll get lifting and too close andclogging will result because the curls will jam the mouth. Do a couple of things before you start though. First make sure the chipbreaker is set fair against the iron with no gap showing at all else theshavings will clog there, also make sure the iron is sharp or you'll beblaming the settings for any problems you may encounter. Tony At 10:26 AM 4/22/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: gota few questions about using bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge of the chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on the effective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help, Kyle /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com 0423202133; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:33 -0400 0423202109; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:09 -0400Received: (qmail 28122 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2002 00:11:31 -0000Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.arnet.com.ar) (200.45.0.5) Received: from mail pickup service by mail2.arnet.com.ar with Microsoft Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:06:07 -0300 mail2.arnet.com.ar with Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:24 -0300 mx2.arnet.com.ar Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:08 -0300 Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:02:03 -0300 g3MEuW425739; Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com g3MEuG425688for /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from stoltz10@attbi.com Tue Apr 23 22:58:22 2002 g3O3wL426626 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 22:58:21 - Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane so a stanley #3 is the plane to use?----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane You get used to it pretty fast if you keep doing it and one handed usebecomes second nature in time but you do need to keep the iron sharp justlike always. Tony At 11:09 PM 4/23/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Thanks everyone for the suggestions on using the bench plane. I was able to fiddle with it until I could make some smooth cuts. While the bench plane cuts nicely, it does not give me as good a feel as the 9 1/2 block planedoes. If only the cutting ability of the bench plane could be combined with the feel of the block plane... is there such a plane out there that is like that? In a message dated 04/23/2002 5:21:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,homes- sold@attbi.com writes: Kyle,The only thing I would add to what Tony said is: Make sure the back of the Iorn is flat.Don----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:43 AMSubject: Re: ? Bench Plane It's all related to the depth of cut as is the width of the mouth.Unless you're taking the cut really close to the stage you need the block plane for try setting the frog so the mouth's opened 2mm and the chipbreaker about the same back from the edge of the iron and just mess with settings from there.If the chip breaker is too far back you'll get lifting and too close and clogging will result because the curls will jam the mouth. Do a couple of things before you start though. First make sure the chip breaker is set fair against the iron with no gap showing at all else the shavings will clog there, also make sure the iron is sharp or you'll be blaming the settings for any problems you may encounter. Tony At 10:26 AM 4/22/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: , gota few questions about using bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge of the chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on the effective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help, Kyle AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com 0423202133; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:33 -0400 0423202109; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:09 -0400Received: (qmail 28122 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2002 00:11:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.arnet.com.ar) (200.45.0.5) Received: from mail pickup service by mail2.arnet.com.ar with Microsoft Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:06:07 -0300 mail2.arnet.com.ar with Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:24 -0300 mx2.arnet.com.ar Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:08 -0300 Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:02:03 -0300 g3MEuW425739; Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com g3MEuG425688for /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 23 23:31:37 2002 g3O4VY427532 for ; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 23:31:35 - Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane A #3 is good.Something a lot of people will find is if their bench top is too high it'll be almost impossible to use a bench plane one handed.My bench is quite low because that's what I feel is the way benches made are when I stand straight and let my arms hang loose and a fist is made.Many people feel more comfortable with higher benches but I think this is as a result of power tools being predominant as these are more comfortable to use at kitchen bench height which is a lot higher.So, if you want to try using a bench plane and find it difficult try a lower height and see if it improves anything. You'll likely find the finishing stages of planing are easier too but that is a personal thing. Tony At 08:58 PM 4/23/02 -0700, Tim Stoltz wrote: so a stanley #3 is the plane to use?----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:57 PMSubject: Re: ? Bench Plane You get used to it pretty fast if you keep doing it and one handed usebecomes second nature in time but you do need to keep the iron sharpjustlike always. Tony At 11:09 PM 4/23/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Thanks everyone for the suggestions on using the bench plane. I wasable to fiddle with it until I could make some smooth cuts. While the bench plane cuts nicely, it does not give me as good a feel as the 9 1/2 block planedoes. If only the cutting ability of the bench plane could be combined with the feel of the block plane... is there such a plane out there that is like that? In a message dated 04/23/2002 5:21:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,homes- sold@attbi.com writes: Kyle,The only thing I would add to what Tony said is: Make sure the back of the Iorn is flat.Don----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:43 AMSubject: Re: ? Bench Plane It's all related to the depth of cut as is the width of the mouth.Unless you're taking the cut really close to the stage you need the block plane for try setting the frog so the mouth's opened 2mm and thechipbreaker about the same back from the edge of the iron and justmess with settings from there.If the chip breaker is too far back you'll get lifting and too close and clogging will result because the curls will jam the mouth. Do a couple of things before you start though. First make sure the chip breaker is set fair against the iron with no gap showing at all else the shavings will clog there, also make sure the iron is sharp or you'll be blaming the settings for any problems you may encounter. Tony At 10:26 AM 4/22/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: [:)] , gota few questions about using bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge of the chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on the effective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help, Kyle /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com 0423202133; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:33 -0400 0423202109; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:09 -0400Received: (qmail 28122 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2002 00:11:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.arnet.com.ar) (200.45.0.5) Received: from mail pickup service by mail2.arnet.com.ar with Microsoft Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:06:07 -0300 mail2.arnet.com.ar with Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:24 -0300 mx2.arnet.com.ar Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:08 -0300 Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:02:03 -0300 g3MEuW425739; Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com g3MEuG425688for /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Wed Apr 24 03:02:00 2002 g3O81x404124 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:01:59 -0500 id E1FA4D2CFE; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:01:55 +1200 (NZST) +1200 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: How sharp is sharp If you guy make it down this far (NZ) and get a trip out big game fishing to Mayor Island, make sure you wear your flip flops on the beach. Don't ask......, but Mayor island is a volcanic cone. Where the land has eroded, you can see bands of obsidian between layers of ash and pumice. it is sprinkled around all over the place. Seriously though, the impression I have is that it is tougher than window glass, but I can't see it being any 'sharper'. Dave Kennedy -----Original Message----- Subject: How sharp is sharp Dear List, I was out of town for a while and am just now catching up on thenewspapers that piled up during my absence. We obsess over getting our plane irons SHARP. According to an item fromL.M. Boyd's column of March 26, 2002, maybe we're using the wrong thingforplaning. I quote: "The Mayans over 4,000 years ago in their blood rituals used thesharpest knives that even now have ever been known to man. They were sharperthan our best boning cutlery, sharper than diamond scalpels and as much as500 times sharper than modern razor blades. They were made fromobsidian,volcanic glass. Might be hard to hold in a plane!Dick Fuhrman from d.kennedy@paradise.net.nz Wed Apr 24 03:02:06 2002 g3O825404129 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:02:05 - id 75E79D2C8F; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:01:58 +1200 (NZST) +1200 "'stoltz10@attbi.com'" ,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: ? Bench Plane So Tony, Australian benches are only three inches off the ground? All the best from Kiwiland -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane A #3 is good.Something a lot of people will find is if their bench top is too high it'll be almost impossible to use a bench plane one handed.My bench is quite low because that's what I feel is the way benches made are when I stand straight and let my arms hang loose and a fist is made.Many people feel more comfortable with higher benches but I think this is as a result of power tools being predominant as these are more comfortable to use at kitchen bench height which is a lot higher.So, if you want to try using a bench plane and find it difficult try a lower height and see if it improves anything. You'll likely find the finishing stages of planing are easier too but that is a personal thing. Tony At 08:58 PM 4/23/02 -0700, Tim Stoltz wrote: so a stanley #3 is the plane to use?----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:57 PMSubject: Re: ? Bench Plane You get used to it pretty fast if you keep doing it and one handed usebecomes second nature in time but you do need to keep the iron sharpjustlike always. Tony At 11:09 PM 4/23/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Thanks everyone for the suggestions on using the bench plane. I wasable to fiddle with it until I could make some smooth cuts. While the bench plane cuts nicely, it does not give me as good a feel as the 9 1/2 block planedoes. If only the cutting ability of the bench plane could be combined with the feel of the block plane... is there such a plane out there that is like that? In a message dated 04/23/2002 5:21:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,homes- sold@attbi.com writes: Kyle,The only thing I would add to what Tony said is: Make sure the back of the Iorn is flat.Don----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:43 AMSubject: Re: ? Bench Plane It's all related to the depth of cut as is the width of the mouth.Unless you're taking the cut really close to the stage you need the block plane for try setting the frog so the mouth's opened 2mm and thechipbreaker about the same back from the edge of the iron and justmess with settings from there.If the chip breaker is too far back you'll get lifting and too close and clogging will result because the curls will jam the mouth. Do a couple of things before you start though. First make sure the chip breaker is set fair against the iron with no gap showing at all else the shavings will clog there, also make sure the iron is sharp or you'll be blaming the settings for any problems you may encounter. Tony At 10:26 AM 4/22/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: [:)] , gota few questions about using bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge of the chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on the effective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help, Kyle /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com 0423202133; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:33 -0400 0423202109; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:09 -0400Received: (qmail 28122 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2002 00:11:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.arnet.com.ar) (200.45.0.5) Received: from mail pickup service by mail2.arnet.com.ar with Microsoft Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:06:07 -0300 mail2.arnet.com.ar with Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:24 -0300 mx2.arnet.com.ar Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:08 -0300 Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:02:03 -0300 g3MEuW425739; Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com g3MEuG425688for /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 24 03:09:58 2002 g3O89u404682 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:09:57 -0500 "'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: How sharp is sharp That's gota hurt! TY At 07:43 PM 4/24/02 +1200, d.kennedy wrote: If you guy make it down this far (NZ) and get a trip out big game fishingto Mayor Island, make sure you wear your flip flops on the beach. Don'task......, but Mayor island is a volcanic cone. Where the land has eroded,you can see bands of obsidian between layers of ash and pumice. it issprinkled around all over the place. Seriously though, the impression I have is that it is tougher than windowglass, but I can't see it being any 'sharper'. Dave Kennedy -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2002 03:42 Subject: How sharp is sharp Dear List, I was out of town for a while and am just now catching up onthenewspapers that piled up during my absence. We obsess over getting our plane irons SHARP. According to an item fromL.M. Boyd's column of March 26, 2002, maybe we're using the wrong thingforplaning. I quote: "The Mayans over 4,000 years ago in their blood rituals used thesharpest knives that even now have ever been known to man. They weresharperthan our best boning cutlery, sharper than diamond scalpels and as much as500 times sharper than modern razor blades. They were made fromobsidian,volcanic glass. Might be hard to hold in a plane!Dick Fuhrman /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 24 03:11:37 2002 g3O8Ba404942 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 03:11:36 - "'stoltz10@attbi.com'" ,"'rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu'" Subject: RE: ? Bench Plane You're a funny guy Kiwi [:-)] You have a point though, when I used to rock climb I was called Rock Ape. Tony At 07:48 PM 4/24/02 +1200, d.kennedy wrote: So Tony, Australian benches are only three inches off the ground? All the best from Kiwiland -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, 24 April 2002 16:39 Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane A #3 is good.Something a lot of people will find is if their bench top is too high it'llbe almost impossible to use a bench plane one handed.My bench is quite low because that's what I feel is the way benches made are when I stand straight and let my arms hang loose and a fist is made.Many people feel more comfortable with higher benches but I think this isas a result of power tools being predominant as these are morecomfortableto use at kitchen bench height which is a lot higher.So, if you want to try using a bench plane and find it difficult try alower height and see if it improves anything. You'll likely find thefinishing stages of planing are easier too but that is a personal thing. Tony At 08:58 PM 4/23/02 -0700, Tim Stoltz wrote: so a stanley #3 is the plane to use?----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 8:57 PMSubject: Re: ? Bench Plane You get used to it pretty fast if you keep doing it and one handed usebecomes second nature in time but you do need to keep the iron sharpjustlike always. Tony At 11:09 PM 4/23/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Thanks everyone for the suggestions on using the bench plane. I was able to fiddle with it until I could make some smooth cuts. While the bench plane cuts nicely, it does not give me as good a feel as the 9 1/2 blockplanedoes. If only the cutting ability of the bench plane could be combined with the feel of the block plane... is there such a plane out there that is like that? In a message dated 04/23/2002 5:21:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,homes- sold@attbi.com writes: Kyle,The only thing I would add to what Tony said is: Make sure the back of the Iorn is flat.Don----- Original Message -----From: "Tony Young" Sent: Monday, April 22, 2002 7:43 AMSubject: Re: ? Bench Plane It's all related to the depth of cut as is the width of the mouth.Unless you're taking the cut really close to the stage you need the block plane for try setting the frog so the mouth's opened 2mm and the chip breaker about the same back from the edge of the iron and justmess with settings from there.If the chip breaker is too far back you'll get lifting and too close and clogging will result because the curls will jam the mouth. Do a couple of things before you start though. First make sure the chip breaker is set fair against the iron with no gap showing at all else the shavings will clog there, also make sure the iron is sharp or you'll be blaming the settings for any problems you may encounter. Tony At 10:26 AM 4/22/02 -0400, KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: [:)] , gota few questions about using bench planes. How close to the edge of the blade do you set the edge of the chip breaker? How wide do you set the mouth? Any other insights on the effective use of a No 3 would be appreciated. Thanks in advance for our help, Kyle /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xa05.mx.aol.com (rly-xa05.mail.aol.com MAILINXA43-0423202133; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:33 -0400 MAILRELAYINXA59-0423202109; Tue, 23 Apr 2002 20:21:09 -0400Received: (qmail 28122 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2002 00:11:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO mail2.arnet.com.ar) (200.45.0.5) Received: from mail pickup service by mail2.arnet.com.ar with Microsoft Tue, 23 Apr 2002 21:06:07 -0300 mail2.arnet.com.ar with Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:24 -0300 mx2.arnet.com.ar Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:07:08 -0300 Mon, 22 Apr 2002 12:02:03 -0300 g3MEuW425739; Received: from rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (rwcrmhc53.attbi.com g3MEuG425688for /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from harms1@pa.net Wed Apr 24 07:07:21 2002 g3OC7K407401 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 07:07:21 - Subject: Re: Quads and Hollows Jerry, Indeed, a real and present danger! But I try to offset that bystraightening my nodes while the cane is saturated. Among otheradvantages,the water prevents excessive temps by functioning as a "heat-sink," and I amalways able to finish a node before signs of scorching appear. More importantly, however, I use the spiral system of staggering, wherebyeach node is adjoined by five stips of straight fiber. (clockwise in thebutt, and counter-clockwise in the tips). It is often said that this system"wastes" more cane. I suppose it is true, but I have never been able tofigure out what to do with the cut-off lengths of a six-foot strip anyhow. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Quads and Hollows Quality or cosmetic quality? i am stll doubious of that much heat beingapplied at a concentrated area.. if you test some bad cane with heattreating you will find the cane breaks cleanly at the edge of the nodealmost every time.. no stringing..like many of the things we do to thecane, glueing it with the nodes offset makes up for a lot of evils.. mho jerry from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Apr 24 08:57:58 2002 g3ODvv411403 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:57:57 - IAA04035 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 Subject: RE: ? Bench Plane I was rough planing a couple days ago and tried using a spokeshaveand it worked very well. The two side handles made it easy to managethe angles and the short sole made it easy to get close to the clamp.And you could push or pull, whatever was convenient. I liked it betterthan a bench plane. These were soaked strips so, even with the wide mouth I didn't haveany tearout at the nodes. That might be a problem with dry strips.Kunz makes a spokeshave with an adjustable mouth; I had one yearsago but I couldn't find it when I looked.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from ctcaneman@yahoo.com Wed Apr 24 10:06:21 2002 g3OF6K415256 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:06:20 - Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:06:13 PDT Subject: J Austin Forbes List, Through some research I have found that J AustinForbesBamboo rods are being made hear in CT. Just wonderingif anyone has cast any of them? if so, what are theylike? The web site says "Tapers developed with "HisEminence" Wayne Cattanach". TIA, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from trpgo@msn.com Wed Apr 24 10:27:41 2002 g3OFRe416678 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:27:40 - Wed, 24 Apr 2002 08:27:35 -0700 Subject: Decals FILETIME=[8F2958A0:01C1EBA4] I was just wondering how many rodmakers are using decals for signing thei=r rods and what finish you are using over the decals? I was also wondering if anyone has any information about a Stanley No. 45=beading, dado etc. plane that I have just received from my wife's grandf=ather. Included was a little wood holder that has multiple blades for ot=her uses. I was justwon=dering how many rodmakers are using decals for signing their rods and wha= wa= from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Wed Apr 24 10:31:44 2002 g3OFVh417160 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:31:43 - Subject: test Sorry for the bandwidth from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 24 10:35:07 2002 g3OFZ5417689 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 10:35:05 - Subject: RE: ? Bench Plane That's a really good point, pulling the shave would be a great way to do the job quickly but how did you hold the strip and use the shave in a form? Tony At 08:57 AM 4/24/02 -0500, Frank Stetzer wrote: I was rough planing a couple days ago and tried using a spokeshaveand it worked very well. The two side handles made it easy to managethe angles and the short sole made it easy to get close to the clamp.And you could push or pull, whatever was convenient. I liked it betterthan a bench plane. These were soaked strips so, even with the wide mouth I didn't haveany tearout at the nodes. That might be a problem with dry strips.Kunz makes a spokeshave with an adjustable mouth; I had one yearsago but I couldn't find it when I looked.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Apr 24 11:00:03 2002 g3OG03420930 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:00:03 - Subject: RE: ? Bench Plane With an ordinary spring clamp. If you have an unruly strip you mightneed a couple. But with the short sole of the spokeshave you canget close to the clamp. My wood roughing forms have a block onthe bottom and I clamp that in the vise, so the clamp can be putabout anywhere along the length. I think when people use a 2 handed bench plane they use a clamp(right?) Anyway thats what I tried but the shave seemed a lothandier, to me. I'm not sure if I'd use it past the roughing stage. I'd worryabout a big node chip.--Frank On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Tony Young wrote: That's a really good point, pulling the shave would be a great way to dothe job quickly but how did you hold the strip and use the shave in a form? Tony from stoltz10@attbi.com Wed Apr 24 11:40:37 2002 g3OGea427215 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:40:36 - Subject: stankey #3 plane I'm thiniking about giving a bench plane a try, but am wondering =whether I should purchase an old stanley #3 or purchase a new one, any =pros or cons? try, but am wondering whether I should purchase an old stanley #3 or = new one, any pros or cons? from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Wed Apr 24 11:47:25 2002 g3OGlO428693 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:47:24 - Subject: RE: J Austin Forbes Paul, I haven't had the pleasure of casting one of these rods, however QuietSports in Collinsville has a couple of Terry's blanks for sale. I talked toJohn there and he is trying to get a finished rod for display. The blanksare lighter line weights blonde and very nice. Pete -----Original Message----- Subject: J Austin Forbes List, Through some research I have found that J AustinForbesBamboo rods are being made hear in CT. Just wonderingif anyone has cast any of them? if so, what are theylike?The web site says "Tapers developed with "HisEminence" Wayne Cattanach". TIA, Paul __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Wed Apr 24 11:50:05 2002 g3OGo4429423 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:50:04 - Subject: Re: stankey #3 plane An older one will be better made and none the worse for wear most likely. Tony At 09:40 AM 4/24/02 -0700, Tim Stoltz wrote: I'm thiniking about giving a bench plane a try, but am wondering whether I should purchase an old stanley #3 or purchase a new one, any pros orcons? /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 24 12:11:59 2002 g3OHBw402914 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:11:58 - for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:11:36 - Subject: Outragious read this Everyone who reads this should send it to as many people as possible ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the70'sthat do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that ourfathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.Jane Fonda isbeing honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately,manyhave forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fondabetrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served andsacrificed during Vietnam. The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is JerryDriscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAFSurvivalSchool was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from astinkingcesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was orderedtodescribe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humanetreatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and draggedaway. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the campCommandant'sfeet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from theVietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. from 1963-65,Col.Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 - years in the"Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wifelived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned,fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world thatthey still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with hisSSNon it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and acameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking littleencouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Areyou grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?"Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver ofpaper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and oncethe camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, sheturnedto the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Threemendied from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number fourbut he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions thatday. I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured forover 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in acagein Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamesecaptors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse inaleprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the junglenearthe Cambodian border. At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is170lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals." When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist politicalofficer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for Iwould like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted byJaneFonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on arocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount ofsteelplaced on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours afterIwas released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. Shedid not answer me. This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100Yearsof Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" shouldneverinclude a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so manypatriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, butHanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. Itwill eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we willnever forget. http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ Everyone who reads thisshould send it to as many people as possible born in the our Fonda is Unfortunately, and Jerry USAF a ordered humane clubbed, and dragged Commandant's suffered the 65, the wife cleaned, that his Fonda and a little "Are captors?" of and once she Three almost number four that captured held for year in a Vietnamese nurse in jungle weight is political different a of dipped. after TV. She "100 never many to, but It will http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from rmoon@ida.net Wed Apr 24 12:58:00 2002 g3OHvx405410 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 12:57:59 - 0000 Subject: Re: Decals Thomas, It is a pretty valuable plane. Especially if all the irons andthe box are present. I can't give you a figure, but there are a coupleof web sites on Stanleys that might give you wome help. Strange youcame along with this question. Just a couple of days ago I startedusing my Sanley 45 to make a Greenheart rod. The concave curbed bladesin various sizes make the best scraper for the wood rods, that you canimagine.Rallph THOMAS PETERS wrote: I was just wondering how many rodmakers are using decals for signingtheir rods and what finish you are using over the decals? I was alsowondering if anyone has any information about a Stanley No. 45beading, dado etc. plane that I have just received from my wife'sgrandfather. Included was a little wood holder that has multipleblades for other uses. Tom --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from rmoon@ida.net Wed Apr 24 13:00:15 2002 g3OI0E405719 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:00:14 - Subject: Re: ? Bench Plane Frank Thanks for the idea. I hope that Todd gets it into the tips. I have nottried it yet, but I am splitting now and will be trying it out later today. Wishme luckRalph Frank Stetzer wrote: With an ordinary spring clamp. If you have an unruly strip you mightneed a couple. But with the short sole of the spokeshave you canget close to the clamp. My wood roughing forms have a block onthe bottom and I clamp that in the vise, so the clamp can be putabout anywhere along the length. I think when people use a 2 handed bench plane they use a clamp(right?) Anyway thats what I tried but the shave seemed a lothandier, to me. I'm not sure if I'd use it past the roughing stage. I'd worryabout a big node chip.--Frank On Wed, 24 Apr 2002, Tony Young wrote: That's a really good point, pulling the shave would be a great way to dothe job quickly but how did you hold the strip and use the shave in aform? Tony --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from rextutor@yahoo.com Wed Apr 24 13:47:50 2002 g3OIln409247 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:47:49 - 24 Apr 2002 11:47:44 PDT Subject: Re: Outragious read this Check your facts I didn't like Fonda in Nam any betterthan most guys but you are repeating rumours withoutany substance. You are repeating urban legendhttp://www.snopes2.com/military/fonda.htm The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above-- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtivelygiven her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese andthat several POWs were beaten to death as a result --are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatorye-mail categorically deny the events they supposedlywere part of. "It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret.Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentionedin the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shotdown over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time ina POW camp. He has no idea why the story wasattributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda." --- -In fact, Fonda carried home letters from many AmericanPOWs to their families upon her return from NorthVietnam, and rumors that a POW was beaten to deathwhen he refused to meet with her were nothing morethan rumors. Still, legally treasonous or not, JaneFonda's actions merit the contempt felt towards her,and her inclusion in ABC's 30 April 1999 "ACelebration: 100 Years of Great Women" rightly angeredmany who failed to see what was so "great" about thiswoman. She didn't go to North Vietnam to try to bringabout peace or to reconcile the two warring sides orto stop American boys from being killed; she wentthere as an active show of support for the NorthVietnamese cause. She lauded the North Vietnamesemilitary and citizens while she denounced Americansoldiers as "war criminals" and urged them to stopfighting, she lobbied to cut off all American economicaid to the South Vietnamese government even after theParis Peace Accords ended U.S. military involvement inVietnam, and she publicly thanked the Soviets forproviding assistance to the North Vietnamese. And shedid all this not as a reckless youth who rashlyspouted ill-considered opinions now best forgotten,but as a 34-year-old adult who should be expected tobear full responsibility for her actions. In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing Americansoldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs aspossessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met withVietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It'sinteresting to note that this nationally-televisedapology (during which she attempted to minimize heractions by characterizing them as "thoughtless andcareless") came at a time when New England vets weresuccessfully disrupting a film project she was workingon. It's also interesting that not only was thisapology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but ithas not been offered again since. More than a few haveread a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almostthirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I willgo to my grave regretting the photograph of me in ananti- aircraft carrier, which looks like I was tryingto shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers.It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horriblething I could possibly have done. It was justthoughtless.") --- Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Everyone who reads this should send it to as manypeople as possible ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the 70'sthat do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, manyhave forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam. The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAF SurvivalSchool was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinkingcesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered todescribe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. from 1963-65, Col.Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 -years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSNon it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turnedto the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three mendied from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day. I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cagein Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in aleprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle nearthe Cambodian border. At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals." When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steelplaced on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after Iwas released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me. This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Yearsof Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget. HREF="http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/">http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Apr 24 13:52:51 2002 g3OIqo409834 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 13:52:50 - LAA22861; LAA26841; g3OIr0729590; (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 11:52:30 -0700 RodMakers Listserve Subject: RE: Outrageous read this gee that's funny, I heard the C.O. of the pow's in the Hanoi Hilton say onfilm that she had done just that. The names maybe wrong in the email butwhat she did was something that us ex GI's will go to our graves holdingagainst her. She also fired some anti aircraft rounds that was also caughton film and implied that it was at our airplanes. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Outragious read this Check your facts I didn't like Fonda in Nam any betterthan most guys but you are repeating rumours withoutany substance. You are repeating urban legendhttp://www.snopes2.com/military/fonda.htm The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above-- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtivelygiven her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese andthat several POWs were beaten to death as a result --are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatorye-mail categorically deny the events they supposedlywere part of. "It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret.Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentionedin the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shotdown over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time ina POW camp. He has no idea why the story wasattributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda." --- -In fact, Fonda carried home letters from many AmericanPOWs to their families upon her return from NorthVietnam, and rumors that a POW was beaten to deathwhen he refused to meet with her were nothing morethan rumors. Still, legally treasonous or not, JaneFonda's actions merit the contempt felt towards her,and her inclusion in ABC's 30 April 1999 "ACelebration: 100 Years of Great Women" rightly angeredmany who failed to see what was so "great" about thiswoman. She didn't go to North Vietnam to try to bringabout peace or to reconcile the two warring sides orto stop American boys from being killed; she wentthere as an active show of support for the NorthVietnamese cause. She lauded the North Vietnamesemilitary and citizens while she denounced Americansoldiers as "war criminals" and urged them to stopfighting, she lobbied to cut off all American economicaid to the South Vietnamese government even after theParis Peace Accords ended U.S. military involvement inVietnam, and she publicly thanked the Soviets forproviding assistance to the North Vietnamese. And shedid all this not as a reckless youth who rashlyspouted ill-considered opinions now best forgotten,but as a 34-year-old adult who should be expected tobear full responsibility for her actions. In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing Americansoldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs aspossessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met withVietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It'sinteresting to note that this nationally-televisedapology (during which she attempted to minimize heractions by characterizing them as "thoughtless andcareless") came at a time when New England vets weresuccessfully disrupting a film project she was workingon. It's also interesting that not only was thisapology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but ithas not been offered again since. More than a few haveread a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almostthirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I willgo to my grave regretting the photograph of me in ananti- aircraft carrier, which looks like I was tryingto shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers.It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horriblething I could possibly have done. It was justthoughtless.") --- Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Everyone who reads this should send it to as manypeople as possible ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the 70'sthat do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, manyhave forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam. The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAF SurvivalSchool was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinkingcesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered todescribe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. from 1963-65, Col.Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 -years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSNon it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turnedto the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three mendied from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day. I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cagein Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in aleprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle nearthe Cambodian border. At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals." When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steelplaced on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after Iwas released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me. This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Yearsof Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget. HREF="http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/">http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Apr 24 15:32:15 2002 g3OKWE419654 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:32:14 - helo=oemcomputer) id 170TQx-0006ps-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:32:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Outrageous read this Some of the details in this so called "urban legend" may, or may not, befactual; however, there's no doubt that she gave "aid and comfort to theenemy", as she fully intended, and that's Treasonous behavior anyway youcutit and she should've been prosecuted. I'm just thankful I got back safely,one real close buddy didn't. Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Outrageous read this gee that's funny, I heard the C.O. of the pow's in the Hanoi Hilton say onfilm that she had done just that. The names maybe wrong in the email butwhat she did was something that us ex GI's will go to our graves holdingagainst her. She also fired some anti aircraft rounds that was also caughton film and implied that it was at our airplanes. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:48 AM Subject: Re: Outragious read this Check your facts I didn't like Fonda in Nam any betterthan most guys but you are repeating rumours withoutany substance.You are repeating urban legendhttp://www.snopes2.com/military/fonda.htm The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above-- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtivelygiven her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese andthat several POWs were beaten to death as a result --are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatorye-mail categorically deny the events they supposedlywere part of. "It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret.Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentionedin the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shotdown over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time ina POW camp. He has no idea why the story wasattributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."---- In fact, Fonda carried home letters from many AmericanPOWs to their families upon her return from NorthVietnam, and rumors that a POW was beaten to deathwhen he refused to meet with her were nothing morethan rumors. Still, legally treasonous or not, JaneFonda's actions merit the contempt felt towards her,and her inclusion in ABC's 30 April 1999 "ACelebration: 100 Years of Great Women" rightly angeredmany who failed to see what was so "great" about thiswoman. She didn't go to North Vietnam to try to bringabout peace or to reconcile the two warring sides orto stop American boys from being killed; she wentthere as an active show of support for the NorthVietnamese cause. She lauded the North Vietnamesemilitary and citizens while she denounced Americansoldiers as "war criminals" and urged them to stopfighting, she lobbied to cut off all American economicaid to the South Vietnamese government even after theParis Peace Accords ended U.S. military involvement inVietnam, and she publicly thanked the Soviets forproviding assistance to the North Vietnamese. And shedid all this not as a reckless youth who rashlyspouted ill-considered opinions now best forgotten,but as a 34-year-old adult who should be expected tobear full responsibility for her actions. In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing Americansoldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs aspossessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met withVietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It'sinteresting to note that this nationally-televisedapology (during which she attempted to minimize heractions by characterizing them as "thoughtless andcareless") came at a time when New England vets weresuccessfully disrupting a film project she was workingon. It's also interesting that not only was thisapology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but ithas not been offered again since. More than a few haveread a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almostthirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I willgo to my grave regretting the photograph of me in ananti- aircraft carrier, which looks like I was tryingto shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers.It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horriblething I could possibly have done. It was justthoughtless.") --- Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Everyone who reads this should send it to as manypeople as possible ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the 70'sthat do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, manyhave forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam. The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAF SurvivalSchool was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinkingcesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered todescribe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. from 1963-65, Col.Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 -years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSNon it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turnedto the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three mendied from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day. I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cagein Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in aleprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle nearthe Cambodian border. At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals." When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steelplaced on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after Iwas released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me. This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Yearsof Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget. HREF="http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/">http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ A> __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from turnerj8@msu.edu Wed Apr 24 15:57:48 2002 g3OKvl422327 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 15:57:47 - Subject: Re: Outrageous read this I'm sure the memories are quite painful, but what has this to do withrodmaking? Ed Riddle wrote: Some of the details in this so called "urban legend" may, or may not, befactual; however, there's no doubt that she gave "aid and comfort to theenemy", as she fully intended, and that's Treasonous behavior anyway youcutit and she should've been prosecuted. I'm just thankful I got back safely,one real close buddy didn't. Ed ----- Original Message -----From: "Coffey, Patrick W" Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 2:52 PMSubject: RE: Outrageous read this gee that's funny, I heard the C.O. of the pow's in the Hanoi Hilton say onfilm that she had done just that. The names maybe wrong in the emailbutwhat she did was something that us ex GI's will go to our graves holdingagainst her. She also fired some anti aircraft rounds that was alsocaughton film and implied that it was at our airplanes. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:48 AM Subject: Re: Outragious read this Check your facts I didn't like Fonda in Nam any betterthan most guys but you are repeating rumours withoutany substance.You are repeating urban legendhttp://www.snopes2.com/military/fonda.htm The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above-- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtivelygiven her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese andthat several POWs were beaten to death as a result --are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatorye-mail categorically deny the events they supposedlywere part of. "It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret.Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentionedin the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shotdown over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time ina POW camp. He has no idea why the story wasattributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."---- In fact, Fonda carried home letters from many AmericanPOWs to their families upon her return from NorthVietnam, and rumors that a POW was beaten to deathwhen he refused to meet with her were nothing morethan rumors. Still, legally treasonous or not, JaneFonda's actions merit the contempt felt towards her,and her inclusion in ABC's 30 April 1999 "ACelebration: 100 Years of Great Women" rightly angeredmany who failed to see what was so "great" about thiswoman. She didn't go to North Vietnam to try to bringabout peace or to reconcile the two warring sides orto stop American boys from being killed; she wentthere as an active show of support for the NorthVietnamese cause. She lauded the North Vietnamesemilitary and citizens while she denounced Americansoldiers as "war criminals" and urged them to stopfighting, she lobbied to cut off all American economicaid to the South Vietnamese government even after theParis Peace Accords ended U.S. military involvement inVietnam, and she publicly thanked the Soviets forproviding assistance to the North Vietnamese. And shedid all this not as a reckless youth who rashlyspouted ill-considered opinions now best forgotten,but as a 34-year-old adult who should be expected tobear full responsibility for her actions. In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing Americansoldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs aspossessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met withVietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It'sinteresting to note that this nationally-televisedapology (during which she attempted to minimize heractions by characterizing them as "thoughtless andcareless") came at a time when New England vets weresuccessfully disrupting a film project she was workingon. It's also interesting that not only was thisapology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but ithas not been offered again since. More than a few haveread a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almostthirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I willgo to my grave regretting the photograph of me in ananti- aircraft carrier, which looks like I was tryingto shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers.It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horriblething I could possibly have done. It was justthoughtless.") --- Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Everyone who reads this should send it to as manypeople as possible ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the 70'sthat do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, manyhave forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam. The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAF SurvivalSchool was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinkingcesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered todescribe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. from 1963-65, Col.Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 -years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSNon it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turnedto the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three mendied from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day. I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cagein Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in aleprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle nearthe Cambodian border. At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals." When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steelplaced on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after Iwas released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me. This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Yearsof Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget. HREF="http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/">http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ > A> __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from rhod@tremeifion.clara.co.uk Wed Apr 24 16:00:14 2002 g3OL0C422723 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:00:13 - helo=m8y8m2) id 170Trz-000BmF-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:00:08 +0100 Subject: RE: Outrageous read this whilst I would in no way wish to play down the importance of this thread,and I acknowledge the terrible suffering which took place in Vietnam, isthis the place for such discussion? I'm not narrow minded, but I subscribeto this list to learn more about cane rod building.Sorry if I'm out of lineRhod -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Outrageous read this Some of the details in this so called "urban legend" may, or may not, befactual; however, there's no doubt that she gave "aid and comfort to theenemy", as she fully intended, and that's Treasonous behavior anyway youcutit and she should've been prosecuted. I'm just thankful I got back safely,one real close buddy didn't. Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: RE: Outrageous read this gee that's funny, I heard the C.O. of the pow's in the Hanoi Hilton say onfilm that she had done just that. The names maybe wrong in the email butwhat she did was something that us ex GI's will go to our graves holdingagainst her. She also fired some anti aircraft rounds that was also caughton film and implied that it was at our airplanes. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 11:48 AM Subject: Re: Outragious read this Check your facts I didn't like Fonda in Nam any betterthan most guys but you are repeating rumours withoutany substance.You are repeating urban legendhttp://www.snopes2.com/military/fonda.htm The most serious accusations in the piece quoted above-- that Fonda turned over slips of paper furtivelygiven her by American POWS to the North Vietnamese andthat several POWs were beaten to death as a result --are proveably untrue. Those named in the inflammatorye-mail categorically deny the events they supposedlywere part of. "It's a figment of somebody's imagination," says Ret.Col. Larry Carrigan, one of the servicemen mentionedin the 'slips of paper' incident. Carrigan was shotdown over North Vietnam in 1967 and did spend time ina POW camp. He has no idea why the story wasattributed to him. "I never met Jane Fonda."---- In fact, Fonda carried home letters from many AmericanPOWs to their families upon her return from NorthVietnam, and rumors that a POW was beaten to deathwhen he refused to meet with her were nothing morethan rumors. Still, legally treasonous or not, JaneFonda's actions merit the contempt felt towards her,and her inclusion in ABC's 30 April 1999 "ACelebration: 100 Years of Great Women" rightly angeredmany who failed to see what was so "great" about thiswoman. She didn't go to North Vietnam to try to bringabout peace or to reconcile the two warring sides orto stop American boys from being killed; she wentthere as an active show of support for the NorthVietnamese cause. She lauded the North Vietnamesemilitary and citizens while she denounced Americansoldiers as "war criminals" and urged them to stopfighting, she lobbied to cut off all American economicaid to the South Vietnamese government even after theParis Peace Accords ended U.S. military involvement inVietnam, and she publicly thanked the Soviets forproviding assistance to the North Vietnamese. And shedid all this not as a reckless youth who rashlyspouted ill-considered opinions now best forgotten,but as a 34-year-old adult who should be expected tobear full responsibility for her actions. In 1988, sixteen years after denouncing Americansoldiers as war criminals and tortured POWs aspossessed of overactive imaginations, Fonda met withVietnam veterans to apologize for her actions. It'sinteresting to note that this nationally-televisedapology (during which she attempted to minimize heractions by characterizing them as "thoughtless andcareless") came at a time when New England vets weresuccessfully disrupting a film project she was workingon. It's also interesting that not only was thisapology delivered sixteen years after the fact, but ithas not been offered again since. More than a few haveread a huge dollop of self-interest into Fonda's 1988apology. (Finally, in an interview in 2000, almostthirty years after the fact, Fonda admitted: "I willgo to my grave regretting the photograph of me in ananti- aircraft carrier, which looks like I was tryingto shoot at American planes. It hurt so many soldiers.It galvanized such hostility. It was the most horriblething I could possibly have done. It was justthoughtless.") --- Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Everyone who reads this should send it to as manypeople as possible ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the 70'sthat do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that our fathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.Jane Fonda is being honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately, manyhave forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fonda betrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who served and sacrificed during Vietnam. The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is Jerry Driscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAF SurvivalSchool was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from a stinkingcesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was ordered todescribe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humane treatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, and dragged away. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the camp Commandant's feet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from the Vietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. from 1963-65, Col.Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 -years in the "Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wife lived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned, fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world that they still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with his SSNon it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and a cameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and asking little encouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and "Are you grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?" Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver of paper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and once the camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, she turnedto the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Three mendied from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost number four but he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions that day. I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and was captured Vietnam in 1968, and held for over 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in a cagein Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamese captors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurse in aleprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the jungle nearthe Cambodian border. At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is 170lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals." When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communist political officer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for I would like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs received different from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted by Jane Fonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on a rocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount of steelplaced on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours after Iwas released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. She did not answer me. This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100 Yearsof Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" should never include a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so many patriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, but Hanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. It will eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we will never forget. HREF="http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/">http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ A> __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Wed Apr 24 16:42:58 2002 g3OLgv427370 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:42:58 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:42:04 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:25:07 -0500 Subject: NonRodmaking -- Tough day on the water...... I've had days like this... This guy sounds like the R.L. Nunley of the BASS world.Regards -- TAM I recently attended a B.A.S.S. qualifier on C.J. Strike in Idaho. We wentout a couple of days early to prefish. Everything went well with theexception of me accidentally throwing one of my St. Croix rods into thelake.We did manage to recover it through a sheer miracle but it was a glimpse of what was to come.. Friday night, looking forward to hittin' the sack early for a good night'ssleep, I checked my running lights and had a burned out bulb.. No lights,nofish so it was off to Mountain Home, 30 miles away in hopes of the unlikely prospect of finding a bulb.. I did find one.. It required somemodificationsand was amber but I could make it work and so I finally made it to bed atabout 1:00 am. 4:00 am Saturday everything was going quite well. I drew a non-boater whoisa real good stick and very serious about winning. We launched the boat,unfortnately I'd forgotten the plug.. By the time I realized this we wereseriously sinking so I jumped in the lake and put in the plug. The weather was COLD and windy and I was completely soggy along with my cell phoneandpalm pilot (who the Hell brings those things to a bass tournament??? Me..). I froze my ass off and my concentration and attitude were anything butconducive to productive fishing. Along about 11:00 I was finally starting to dry out and feel like I mightactually survive and I began stickin' a few fish when the trolling motorconked out.. Whe wind simply would not allow even a few seconds of nontrolling motor supported fishing.. The banks were gaping jaws full of lava rock teeth and so I spent the remainder of the day running the big motor in an attempt to provide my non-boater with a decent day's fishing. Miscellaneously.. My hat blew off, my crankbait box overturned spillingmucho cranks with sharp treble hooks into my landing net. I hooked my self in the leg, right up to the shank.. I stepped on my sunscreen and thebottleexploded sending white crap all over my boat... I'm sure I made quite animpression on that poor feller that was fishin' with me.. Spent the evening dealing with the trolling motor problem and got to bedaround midnight.. Day 2 I drew a young kid who had never fished for bass before.. This washisfirst outing. He didn't have much in the way of lures and equipment and soon he was out of line on his rod and he was using one of mine. I told him togoahead and used anything he wanted out of my tackle bag and he chose a green bomber crank, of which I only had one.. He started slaying 'em with it.Outfishing me at least two to one with my own stuff... We both boated a lot of fish, most of them 1/4 to 1/8 inch shy of the limit. At one point helooked up as he was measuring a short fish and made the observation that he never saw them chech a single fish at weigh in the previous day. "Thisone'sso close and I know some of those I saw weighed yesterday were short...Should I keep him?" I told him the consequences of getting caught weighing ashort fish and he decided to keep it. He ended up limiting and culled allbut2 of the short fish. I had one kicker and two that barely measured up. At weigh in we were in line and watched the guy in front of us pulling fishfromhis live well. One of 'em had to be at least an inch short and the kidsaid,"Man, if they don't check that fish I'm safe for sure..." They didn't,Theydidn't check this kid's fish or anyone else's that I'm aware of.. exceptmineand they booted both of my little ones.. Seems they shrunk.. Plus.. If I'd been measurin' em they would've been made it.. It was as if the guy wastrying to scrunch 'em up when he laid 'em on the measure.. I couldn't help wondering if it had something to do with the previous day.. Maybe my partner had been talking about the idiot he'd been fishing with and ... The kicker to this story is that we headed home after the weigh in. A 6hourdrive and I hadn't had much sleep over the weekend. We rolled into hometown and I decided to fill up my truck before going home. I wanted to just gohome and take a hot shower but I decided to stop. I pulled into the service station and filled my brand new Dodge deisel with... gasoline. Fortunately I realized what I'd done so I didn't start it. It was midnightsoI couldn't call anyone to come help so I called the Diamler/Chryslerroadsideservice number from a payphone. I'm standing out in the wind freezin my ass off again as I wait for them to answer. After about 20 minutes I reallygettin' cold and my coat's only 20 yards away in the truck, but I don't dare run and get it because that's when they'll finally answer.. 1 1/2 hourslater they finally answer. I was so mad I wanted to kill someone andshivvering so hard I could barely speak.. "First, are you in danger?" hesaid.. "No, thank God.. If I was I'd have been dead an hour ago.." I survived, my truck survived, my boat survived..... We've got another tournament coming up on the 27th.. I can hardly wait! from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Wed Apr 24 17:07:01 2002 g3OM6u429592 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:06:56 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:06:50 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 16:48:21 -0500 Subject: FAOL Article - A Very Personal Thing Well, I guess they've sucked me in. If they want hits on their counter,they've succeded. Has anyone read the article by Ladyfisher about whatmakes a "favorite" rod? She slams AJ in there, and never really makes thepoint that I was expecting her to follow through with. The topic was concerning what variables a designer can toy with wheninventing a rod. AJ commented that the graphite boys play with diameterandwall thickness as the primary variables, which is true. LF says that thereis more to it than that, and then goes on to explain about how the pre-pregis wound onto the mandrels in varying configurations. In fact, this isexactly what AJ was saying. What I expected her to talk about was thevariety of fiber modulii that can be used to create the desired feel, butshe didn't really go there. AJ, I'm with you. The craze to make flyrods lighter and faster is reachingcritical mass, and rods exploding while casting is all the proof I need tosee... Regards -- TAM from Grnmtrds@aol.com Wed Apr 24 17:34:44 2002 g3OMYi401855 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:34:44 -0500 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:33:49 -0400 Subject: jojo /tropical paradice JoJo, Were is this tropical paradise you are heading too? Maybe you'll have lots of room for visitors when it cools down up here. Jim/Vermont from bob@downandacross.com Wed Apr 24 17:43:59 2002 g3OMhw402759 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:43:58 - Subject: RE: stankey #3 plane Hi Tim:The #3s are cheaper and easier to find than a #2. (#4s are really cheap).You might try to also find a Millers Falls 8/8C, Record 3/3C, or a Sargent408/408C. I have the Sargent equivelent (408), and while a bit harder tohandle than the #2 from LN, it could be the way to go if you only want touse one smoothing plane. My latest routine uses the #4, then the 408, andthen the #2.Best regards,Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:40 PM Subject: stankey #3 plane I'm thiniking about giving a bench plane a try, but am wondering whetherI should purchase an old stanley #3 or purchase a new one, any pros or cons? Tim: cheaper and easier to find than a #2. (#4s are really cheap). You might = also find a Millers Falls 8/8C, Record 3/3C, or a Sargent 408/408C. I = Sargent equivelent (408), and while a bit harder to handle than the #2 = it could be the way to go if you only want to use one smoothing plane. = routine uses the #4, then the 408, and then the #2. regards,Bob StoltzSent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 12:40 = plane try, but am wondering whether I should purchase an old stanley #3 or = a new one, any pros orcons? from jteft@frontiernet.net Wed Apr 24 17:51:34 2002 g3OMpY403463 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:51:34 - 0000 Subject: Progressing Gang,Guess I'am getting the bug real bad. Just tore all the wrappings off of =a rod cause I did not like the looks. This is a rod that I consider a =prototype so not to bad I guess.Jim T Gang,Guess I'am getting the bug real bad. Just tore all = wrappings off of a rod cause I did not like the looks. This is a rod = consider a prototype so not to bad I guess.Jim T from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Wed Apr 24 18:06:58 2002 g3ON6v404711 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:06:57 - 0000 Subject: RE: Guide feet (was Re: Quads and Hollows) Hola Harry. Las guide las fabrico usted. Que alambre de bronce utilizo.Cual fue el proseso de azulado que les dio. Puede usted pasarme el metodousado. Desde ya gracias.Hello Harry. The guide manufactures them you. That it wires of brass I use.Which it was the proseso of having blued that he/she gave them. You can tospend the used method. from already thank you.----- Original Message ----- Subject: Guide feet (was Re: Quads and Hollows) John, Just thought I'd say thanks for a great tip you passed along a few weeks back. I just ground down a handful of bronze Snake Brand Guides to theshape I like, which is just a touch different than Mike supplies them.Touched them up on a Cratex wheel to polish them (Thanks JZ). To restorethe color to the ground guide feet, I just dipped a Q-tip in Dave LeClair's bluing solution, and dabbed a little on the feet. Rinsed with water, andyou can hardly tell the feet were ground at all. Who says I don't owe this list anything? One tip and I had toacknowledge the contributions of three list members! Thanks,Harry channer wrote: I'll get around to experimenting with quads and otherwise re-inventing the wheeel when I get bored with what's already available in 6 sided tapers. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Wed Apr 24 19:48:39 2002 g3P0mc409094 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:48:38 - Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:48:32 -0700 Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? FILETIME=[ECB80360:01C1EBF2] I just fired up my new Para-15 for the first time. I honestly do not knowwhat to think.This is the strangest rod I have ever cast. It seems to cast 5, 6, or 7weight lines, but with 5 and 6 weightsI have no loop control whatsoever. With a 7, it is an absolute cannon, butonly if I use the shortest yet slowest casting stroke in the history of flyfishing. It IS interesting to feel the butt section flex. And I can throwalmost as much line without double hauling as I can with graphite using adouble haul. I am certain that the problem is with me, and I fully expected that thistaper would be "different". I also was casting in a rather nasty wind. Thisis a KT Keller or PT Kellum version depending on your source, flamed, andright on the money as far as the taper goes. Tried 5 and 6 DT lines, and anSA WF-7-F distance taper. But does anyone have any thoughts about how to get the most out of them? And in what fishing situations do you prefer your para-15 over other rods? Both praise and criticism of paras in general are acceptable in this threadprovided we are tolerant of different views. Jeff Schaeffer from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Wed Apr 24 19:57:35 2002 g3P0vZ409883 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:57:35 - Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Paras are cool rods, but kinda demanding to cast well. You need to messaround with them until you get the timing down. The stroke is slower, asyou are using the rod as much more of a spring than you are probably usedto. Paras store great amounts of energy, that's why you can cast so muchline without the dbl haul. They make good streamer and big fly rods. I prefer a faster, stiffer action now, but change my opinion every so often! Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? I just fired up my new Para-15 for the first time. I honestly do not knowwhat to think.This is the strangest rod I have ever cast. It seems to cast 5, 6, or 7weight lines, but with 5 and 6 weightsI have no loop control whatsoever. With a 7, it is an absolute cannon, butonly if I use the shortest yet slowest casting stroke in the history of fly fishing. It IS interesting to feel the butt section flex. And I can throwalmost as much line without double hauling as I can with graphite using adouble haul. I am certain that the problem is with me, and I fully expected that thistaper would be "different". I also was casting in a rather nasty wind. This is a KT Keller or PT Kellum version depending on your source, flamed, andright on the money as far as the taper goes. Tried 5 and 6 DT lines, and an SA WF-7-F distance taper. But does anyone have any thoughts about how to get the most out ofthem? And in what fishing situations do you prefer your para-15 over other rods? Both praise and criticism of paras in general are acceptable in this thread provided we are tolerant of different views. Jeff Schaeffer from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Apr 24 19:59:30 2002 g3P0xT410119 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 19:59:29 - Subject: Re: Decals In a message dated 04/24/2002 11:28:25 AM Eastern Daylight Time, trpgo@msn.com writes: Hi Tom, I use the black rub on lettering on my rods. It works great. I put one coat of spar on the blanks, then the lettering, then another coat of spar on the blanks. Works good. Dave L. check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site- http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from edriddle@mindspring.com Wed Apr 24 20:08:18 2002 g3P18H411001 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:08:17 -0500 helo=oemcomputer) id 170Xk3-0001uY-00; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:08:12 -0400 Subject: Fonda - off subject First, let me say right up front that this Fonda thing, obviously, hasnothing to do with rodmaking. If all non-rodmaking posts were "blown away" But we have frequent non-rodmaking posts here and they are tolerated forthemost part, several this past week; e.g, canoes, "where to fish","weather-where-I-live", etc come to mind, and I didn't see either of you twoguys jump on that. If you've got a problem with the fact that I fought in Viet-Nam, you fireaway at me and leave it off the List. We never lost a battle...but, thanks to a segment back home, we lost thewar. My apologies to those of you who feel as I do for my emotional missive.Ed from Lazybee45@aol.com Wed Apr 24 20:17:54 2002 g3P1Hs411860 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:17:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Fonda - off subject rhod@tremeifion.clara.co.uk In a message dated 4/24/02 8:08:52 PM Central Daylight Time, edriddle@mindspring.com writes: I too am a Vietnam era veteran, I am curious as to who "back home" is being attached to the blame here, the micromanaging Administration, or those ofthe populace who exercised their rights under that silly document, the Constitution, that says that they can protest the actions of ourgovernment. Ya know, if we didn't HAVE the constitution, you wouldn't have to blame people like fonda for their actions (not that I agree with her actions) You could simply have shot the protesters and the problem would have beensolved.That is my last word, sorry! mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from bamboorodmaker@hotmail.com Wed Apr 24 20:18:34 2002 g3P1IY412026 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:18:34 - Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:18:24 -0700 Thu, 25 Apr 2002 01:18:24 GMT Subject: Re: Outrageous read this FILETIME=[18B8D3A0:01C1EBF7] In my Life in Society class, my professor fought in Vietnam (Marine). Herecently returned from Vietnam (last week),on one of those "go back to find Millerwww.homestead.com/bambooshop/home.html Send and receiveHotmail on your mobile device: Click Here from KyleDruey@aol.com Wed Apr 24 20:24:47 2002 g3P1Oj412804 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:24:46 - Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Jeff, I can't provide any insights on the optimal use of the Para 15, but my experience was very similar to yours. I finished the rod and lawn casted it my Para-palegic 15. However, I spent several days of quality time with it and we finally bonded. I enjoy casting the rod and have yet to fish it. I am thinking this would be a great rod to fish a dry fly with a bead head dropper, at least thats what I am going to do with it first! Give it some time and I think you will eventually like the rod. BTW, what rod are you doint next?! Kyle In a message dated 04/24/2002 5:52:11 PM Pacific Daylight Time, jsschaeffer@hotmail.com writes: I just fired up my new Para-15 for the first time. I honestly do not knowwhat to think.This is the strangest rod I have ever cast. It seems to cast 5, 6, or 7weight lines, but with 5 and 6 weightsI have no loop control whatsoever. With a 7, it is an absolute cannon, butonly if I use the shortest yet slowest casting stroke in the history of flyfishing. It IS interesting to feel the butt section flex. And I can throwalmost as much line without double hauling as I can with graphite using adouble haul.I am certain that the problem is with me, and I fully expected that thistaper would be "different". I also was casting in a rather nasty wind. Thisis a KT Keller or PT Kellum version depending on your source, flamed, andright on the money as far as the taper goes. Tried 5 and 6 DT lines, and anSA WF-7-F distance taper.But does anyone have any thoughts about how to get the most out ofthem?And in what fishing situations do you prefer your para-15 over otherrods?Both praise and criticism of paras in general are acceptable in thisthreadprovided we are tolerant of different views.Jeff Schaeffer----------------------- Headers -------- ------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xj03.mx.aol.com (rly-xj03.mail.aol.com Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:52:11 -0400 rly- Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:51:50 -0400 g3P0ob409352; g3P0mc409094 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft Wed, 24 Apr 2002 17:48:32 -0700X-Originating-IP: [67.25.220.221]From: "Jeff Schaeffer" References: hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taper design?Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:36:05 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Priority: 3X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX- Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Apr 2002 00:48:32.0918 (UTC)FILETIME=[ECB80360:01C1EBF2] Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from lblan@provide.net Wed Apr 24 20:29:17 2002 g3P1TH413374 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:29:17 - for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:29:15 - Subject: RE: Fonda - off subject I can suggest a site for anyone who wants to view a strictly moderatedforum. [:)] I have no problem with off-topic posts. I can hit the delete key as fast asanyone, especially if the subject line is worded correctly. I rather enjoythe fact that we can share ideas that are not strictly related to rodmaking. There is a book titled "Aid and Comfort" which documents Fonda's actions inVietnam rather well. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, April 24, 2002 9:09 PM rhod@tremeifion.clara.co.ukSubject: Fonda - off subject First, let me say right up front that this Fonda thing, obviously, hasnothing to do with rodmaking. If all non-rodmaking posts were"blown away" But we have frequent non-rodmaking posts here and they aretolerated for themost part, several this past week; e.g, canoes, "where to fish","weather- where-I-live", etc come to mind, and I didn't see eitherof you twoguys jump on that. If you've got a problem with the fact that I fought in Viet-Nam, you fireaway at me and leave it off the List. We never lost a battle...but, thanks to a segment back home, we lost thewar. My apologies to those of you who feel as I do for my emotional missive.Ed from BambooRods@aol.com Wed Apr 24 20:55:36 2002 g3P1tY414762 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 20:55:34 - Subject: Re: Outragious read this Keep your politics to yourself! from cattanac@wmis.net Wed Apr 24 22:11:03 2002 g3P3B2419954 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:11:02 - Subject: Re: Outrageous read this fishing and the war. I remember a carefree summer - one of chasing trout =and a few girls as well - in particular I remember sleeping under a jeep =one night - we had chased north to the Jordan and the fishing was good =enough to spend the evening - that night a thunderstorm rolled through =and the tough decision was whether to get wet (we forgot the top of the =jeep) or to seek shelter under the jeep and risk the raining of oil from =the underbelly of the vehicle. Life was carefree and although it was =never talked of there were dreams of doing the escape in times to come. =But for one of us there was never another trek to the Jordan - there was =never another thrunderstorm to seek shelter from - one fly fishes on =more pristine streams - Over the years I have only lost 3 people that I =have fly fished with - the first was the most confusing . .A couple =years ago I saw another Jeep pull into that same fishing spot and for a = remember a carefree summer - one of chasing trout and a few girls as = particular I remember sleeping under a jeep one night - we had chased = the Jordan and the fishing was good enough to spend the evening - that = thunderstorm rolled through and the tough decision was whether to get = forgot the top of the jeep) or to seek shelter under the jeep and risk = raining of oil from the underbelly of the vehicle. Life was carefree and = although it was never talked of there were dreams of doing the escape in = to come. But for one of us there was never another trek to the Jordan - = was never another thrunderstorm to seek shelter from - one fly fishes on = pristine streams - Over the years I have only lost 3 people that I have = fished with - the first was the most confusing . .A couple years ago I = different face to emerge . . from richjez@enteract.com Wed Apr 24 22:15:42 2002 g3P3Fg420542 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 22:15:42 - Subject: Re: Outragious read this What our government did to our troops over there was far worse than Jane Fonda did. McNarma listed some of the horrible things that he and our government was guilty of in a book a few years ago. If you want to discuss the atrocities that tool place there, list all of them! Now that I got that off my chest, there is more than one perspective to most political views. If there is disagreement to this one, there will be a long off topic (rod making) thread which has no place on this list. Rich JezioroUSAF 1966-1970 At 12:11 PM 4/24/2002, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Everyone who reads this should send it to as many people as possible ACROSS AMERICA HONORING A TRAITOR This is for all the kids born in the70'sthat do not remember this, and didn't have to bear the burden, that ourfathers, mothers, and older brothers and sisters had to bear.Jane Fondaisbeing honored as one of the "100 Women of the Century." Unfortunately,manyhave forgotten and still countless others have never known how Ms. Fondabetrayed not only the idea of our country but specific men who servedandsacrificed during Vietnam. The first part of this is from an F-4E pilot. The pilot's name is JerryDriscoll, a River Rat. In 1978, the former Commandant of the USAFSurvivalSchool was a POW in Ho Lo Prison-the "Hanoi Hilton." Dragged from astinkingcesspit of a cell, cleaned, fed, and dressed in clean PJs, he was orderedtodescribe for a visiting American "Peace Activist" the "lenient and humanetreatment" he'd received. He spat at Ms. Fonda, was clubbed, anddraggedaway. During the subsequent beating, he fell forward upon the campCommandant'sfeet, which sent that officer berserk. In '78, the AF Col. still suffered from double vision (which permanently ended his flying days) from theVietnamese Col.'s frenzied application of a wooden baton. from 1963-65,Col.Larry Carrigan was in the 47FW/DO (F-4Es). He spent 6 - years in the"Hilton"- the first three of which he was "missing in action". His wifelived on faith that he was still alive. His group, too, got the cleaned,fed, clothed routine in preparation for a "peace delegation" visit. They, however, had time and devised a plan to get word to the world thatthey still survived. Each man secreted a tiny piece of paper, with hisSSNon it, in the palm of his hand. When paraded before Ms. Fonda and acameraman, she walked the line, shaking each man's hand and askinglittleencouraging snippets like: "Aren't you sorry you bombed babies?" and"Areyou grateful for the humane treatment from your benevolent captors?"Believing this HAD to be an act, they each palmed her their sliver ofpaper. She took them all without missing a beat. At the end of the line and oncethe camera stopped rolling, to the shocked disbelief of the POWs, sheturnedto the officer in charge and handed him the little pile of papers. Threemendied from the subsequent beatings. Col. Carrigan was almost numberfourbut he survived, which is the only reason we know about her actions thatday. I was a civilian economic development advisor in Vietnam, and wascaptured forover 5 years. I spent 27 months in solitary confinement, one year in acagein Cambodia, and one year in a "black box" in Hanoi. My North Vietnamesecaptors deliberately poisoned and murdered a female missionary, a nurseinaleprosarium in Ban me Thuot, South Vietnam, whom I buried in the junglenearthe Cambodian border. At one time, I was weighing approximately 90 lbs. (My normal weight is170lbs.) We were Jane Fonda's "war criminals." When Jane Fonda was in Hanoi, I was asked by the camp communistpoliticalofficer if I would be willing to meet with Jane Fonda. I said yes, for Iwould like to tell her about the real treatment we POWs receiveddifferent from the treatment purported by the North Vietnamese, and parroted byJaneFonda, as "humane and lenient." Because of this, I spent three days on arocky floor on my knees with outstretched arms with a large amount ofsteelplaced on my hands, and beaten with a bamboo cane till my arms dipped. I had the opportunity to meet with Jane Fonda for a couple of hours afterIwas released. I asked her if she would be willing to debate me on TV. Shedid not answer me. This does not exemplify someone who should be honored as part of "100Yearsof Great Women." Lest we forget..."100 years of great women" shouldneverinclude a traitor whose hands are covered with the blood of so manypatriots. There are few things I have strong visceral reactions to, butHanoi Jane's participation in blatant treason, is one of them. Please take the time to forward to as many people as you possibly can. Itwill eventually end up on her computer and she needs to know that we willnever forget. http://bretsovens.bravepages.com/ from Jfoster@sunset.net Wed Apr 24 23:22:18 2002 g3P4MH425654 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 23:22:17 -0500 g3P4M2B0019329 for ; Wed, 24 Apr 2002 21:22:03 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011130 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Actually i want to hear more about osama jane fondle and less about those stupid jack planes..on and on, and on.. if you want it to be easier than a block plane go by a beveler and let that thread sleep.. my TA for the day jerry sorry rich, i hit the wrong button from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 25 00:04:12 2002 g3P54A429946 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:04:10 - Subject: Re: FAOL Article - A Very Personal Thing Anybody ever seen a composite sailing yacht self destruct with this kind of nonsense?Hopefuly everybody will one day wake up and see the limits of the current materials have been about found and until something new comes along fiddling around the edges wont bring any benefits. Bamboo has it's limits, graphite has it's etc. To just keep modifying graphite rods ad nauseam to allow them to do as you say, that being make them lighter and stiffer by altering the construction so it's thinner here and thicker there but too thin over all is stupid but the power of advertising will win every time. Tony At 05:04 PM 4/24/02 -0500, Miller, Troy wrote: Well, I guess they've sucked me in. If they want hits on their counter,they've succeded. Has anyone read the article by Ladyfisher about whatmakes a "favorite" rod? She slams AJ in there, and never really makes thepoint that I was expecting her to follow through with. The topic was concerning what variables a designer can toy with wheninventing a rod. AJ commented that the graphite boys play with diameterandwall thickness as the primary variables, which is true. LF says that thereis more to it than that, and then goes on to explain about how the pre-pregis wound onto the mandrels in varying configurations. In fact, this isexactly what AJ was saying. What I expected her to talk about was thevariety of fiber modulii that can be used to create the desired feel, butshe didn't really go there. AJ, I'm with you. The craze to make flyrods lighter and faster is reachingcritical mass, and rods exploding while casting is all the proof I need tosee... Regards -- TAM /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 25 02:11:42 2002 g3P7Ba408925 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:11:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size You surprise me Jerry, these jack planes as you call them but are actually bench planes are actually designed for the job of leveling rough wood or strips.To struggle with a block plane when he has a bench plane neatly tucked away is self flagellating presumably for the sake of purity.Block planes aren't especially good for the job even at the final stages, they're just the best currently available but a bench plane needs a little more tuning than a block plane and since almost nobody ever actually uses a bench plane any more it's worth the time and number of threads. There are plenty of places where unlimited amounts of dredged up hatredand vitriol can be found on the web. Nobody will argue what Fonda did regardless of the details was criminal and probably evil too.As the son of a man who went to Viet Nam as Dad and returned as somebody else who's been tormented daily since I have a few things to say about that filthy little conflict too but it's not so much about the stupid actions of an individual as the governments involved and their reasons.I come from a family that is not religious and at the age I was when Dad was away I truly believed churches were only used for marriages andfunerals.I can remember going to church 5 times during his absence and none were marriages and all were friends of my parents who died in Viet Nam. It just so happens to be ANZAC Day. That's Australian New Zealand Army Corps. It was formed to fight during WWI and we've been involved in pretty much every conflict since and watching the old guys march then hear every one of them from WWII on (the last Digger from WWI died a couple of months back) tell anybody who'll listen war is something to be avoided at almost any cost even though they have medals to prove their "heroism", I used inverted commas because they don't consider them selves heros though I do and keep in mind, the Australian army doesn't give out medals like lollies I for one tend to believe them.Not any of these old guys still hate the countries they fought against though some still hate certain aspects and the people who did these things mainly in the Pacific theater so I imagine the meaning of that is clear. The Japanese prisons and work camps were no holiday either according to an uncle of mine who was in Changi and a grandfather who was a coast watcher on an Island that was occupied by the enemy for 4 months and continued to send troop movement signals knowing what he would get if found as manywere only to return to Australia and loose a leg and be mostly permanently crippled during one of the bombings of Darwin.There is plenty to hate. To return to my own experience, my most vivid memories of my childhoodare of Mum crying a lot and Dad either yelling or sitting in a room alone like an animal not wanting to see anybody which was in sharp contrast to how things were before he left.So poison your soul by continuing to hate if you will but please not on this list. Tony At 09:13 PM 4/24/02 -0700, Jerry Foster wrote: Actually i want to hear more about osama jane fondle and less about those stupid jack planes..on and on, and on.. if you want it to be easier than a block plane go by a beveler and let that thread sleep.. my TA for the day jerry sorry rich, i hit the wrong button from ajthramer@hotmail.com Thu Apr 25 02:14:00 2002 g3P7Dx409227 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:13:59 - Thu, 25 Apr 2002 00:13:50 -0700 Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:13:50 GMT Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? FILETIME=[C01C1F40:01C1EC28] Paras are not everyones cup of tea. The 15 works well with a 5 or 6. The 6 is easier to cast for a beginner para user, later a 5 might do what you want though. All lines are DT's of course. None of those commie pinko WF lines I can make a para really sing but I do not prefer them. There is a difference in knowing how to make a tool work and liking it. On the flip side I have at rare times come across a person who had a heck of a time with a standard rod and worked a para at the first try. Sort of like I can appreciate a Coevette but my PU makes a lot more sense for what I do.A.J. From: "Jeff Schaeffer" Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taper design?Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:36:05 -0400 I just fired up my new Para-15 for the first time. I honestly do not knowwhat to think.This is the strangest rod I have ever cast. It seems to cast 5, 6, or 7weight lines, but with 5 and 6 weightsI have no loop control whatsoever. With a 7, it is an absolute cannon, butonly if I use the shortest yet slowest casting stroke in the history of flyfishing. It IS interesting to feel the butt section flex. And I can throwalmost as much line without double hauling as I can with graphite using adouble haul. I am certain that the problem is with me, and I fully expected that thistaper would be "different". I also was casting in a rather nasty wind. Thisis a KT Keller or PT Kellum version depending on your source, flamed, andright on the money as far as the taper goes. Tried 5 and 6 DT lines, and anSA WF-7-F distance taper. But does anyone have any thoughts about how to get the most out ofthem? And in what fishing situations do you prefer your para-15 over other rods? Both praise and criticism of paras in general are acceptable in this threadprovided we are tolerant of different views. Jeff Schaeffer _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 25 02:19:20 2002 g3P7JI409775 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:19:18 - Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression oftaper design? I had the same experience. This was the first bamboo rod I ever made and had nothing to compare it with as any fly rod I knew of was either glass or graphite so I threw it in a cupboard and forgot about it for years.I was given a copy of WC's first book and found this list.The first rod I made from the book was the 8' #5 which was exactly thesame to cast as the rod I made years before so as you can imagine I wasperplexed.Anyhow I worked it out and now prefer paras in almost all situations.The thing to do is slow right down and don't force the rod. Also, these rods don't like to have a lot of line out so find a good length of line for false casting and shoot it.Keep using the rod and it'll sort of click and you'll find it's a very nice rod to use after that. Tony At 06:36 PM 4/24/02 -0400, Jeff Schaeffer wrote: I just fired up my new Para-15 for the first time. I honestly do not knowwhat to think.This is the strangest rod I have ever cast. It seems to cast 5, 6, or 7weight lines, but with 5 and 6 weightsI have no loop control whatsoever. With a 7, it is an absolute cannon, butonly if I use the shortest yet slowest casting stroke in the history of flyfishing. It IS interesting to feel the butt section flex. And I can throwalmost as much line without double hauling as I can with graphite using adouble haul. I am certain that the problem is with me, and I fully expected that thistaper would be "different". I also was casting in a rather nasty wind. Thisis a KT Keller or PT Kellum version depending on your source, flamed, andright on the money as far as the taper goes. Tried 5 and 6 DT lines, and anSA WF-7-F distance taper. But does anyone have any thoughts about how to get the most out ofthem? And in what fishing situations do you prefer your para-15 over other rods? Both praise and criticism of paras in general are acceptable in this threadprovided we are tolerant of different views. Jeff Schaeffer /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 25 02:25:05 2002 g3P7P3410535 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 02:25:03 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression oftaper design? Mike Roberts was like that. He'd never seen a working bamboo rod until I gave him the para 15 to try. I thought he'd hate it being a salt water fly fisher used to graphite but he false cast a few times then shot line so far first go I was amazed. The Para 15 is a relatively extreme rod but others like the Driggs and Perfectionist are easier to get used to and are very good all rounders for dry fly and nymphing. Tony I can make a para really sing but I do not prefer them. There is a difference in knowing how to make a tool work and liking it. On the flip side I have at rare times come across a person who had a heck of a time with a standard rod and worked a para at the first try. Sort of like I can appreciate a Coevette but my PU makes a lot more sense for what I do.A.J. From: "Jeff Schaeffer" Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taper design?Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:36:05 -0400 I just fired up my new Para-15 for the first time. I honestly do not knowwhat to think.This is the strangest rod I have ever cast. It seems to cast 5, 6, or 7weight lines, but with 5 and 6 weightsI have no loop control whatsoever. With a 7, it is an absolute cannon, butonly if I use the shortest yet slowest casting stroke in the history of flyfishing. It IS interesting to feel the butt section flex. And I can throwalmost as much line without double hauling as I can with graphite using adouble haul. I am certain that the problem is with me, and I fully expected that thistaper would be "different". I also was casting in a rather nasty wind. Thisis a KT Keller or PT Kellum version depending on your source, flamed, andright on the money as far as the taper goes. Tried 5 and 6 DT lines, and anSA WF-7-F distance taper. But does anyone have any thoughts about how to get the most out ofthem? And in what fishing situations do you prefer your para-15 over otherrods? Both praise and criticism of paras in general are acceptable in this threadprovided we are tolerant of different views. Jeff Schaeffer _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from dannyt@frisurf.no Thu Apr 25 03:48:18 2002 g3P8mH419790 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 03:48:17 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Damn, shuld I have been out in the street watching the Army corps paradethestreets of Auckland...:-? danny It just so happens to be ANZAC Day. That's Australian New Zealand ArmyCorps. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 25 04:39:33 2002 g3P9dV426107 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 04:39:31 - Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size I think you're confusing corps being an organised body of men with corpse being a dead body of which there are a lot connected to it. Tony At 08:47 PM 4/25/02 +1200, Danny Twang wrote: Damn, shuld I have been out in the street watching the Army corps paradethestreets of Auckland...:-? danny It just so happens to be ANZAC Day. That's Australian New Zealand ArmyCorps. /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Apr 25 05:05:18 2002 g3PA5G400656 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 05:05:16 - g3PA53936187 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:05:04 Subject: Ferrule Plugs What do you people make your ferrule plugs out of? And if, like me, you make them out of waste bits of rod section, does anyonebother to fit a cork insert to the actual plug bit? It seems to be a real bugger to turn down without ruining the cork, as youare working here with pretty thin cork. I have some that a friend made for me out of Delrin, and while they are notnearly as cool as the bamboo/cork items, they seem more practical. I am hoping that someone on the List might possibly have an opinion on thissubject. [:-)] Cheers Peter from dpvbkjs@tdstelme.net Thu Apr 25 06:30:58 2002 g3PBUv414770 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:30:57 -0500 rodmakers@mail.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Ferrule Plugs Peter, I also use "waste" bits of rod section and at first tried making cork inserts(a bit of a pain). I strengthened the cork with a wire core. I now just borethe bamboo piece and insert a hardwood dowel or piece of nylon turned to theproper diameter. They work. David What do you people make your ferrule plugs out of? And if, like me, you make them out of waste bits of rod section, doesanyonebother to fit a cork insert to the actual plug bit? It seems to be a real bugger to turn down without ruining the cork, as youare working here with pretty thin cork. I have some that a friend made for me out of Delrin, and while they arenotnearly as cool as the bamboo/cork items, they seem more practical. I am hoping that someone on the List might possibly have an opinion on thissubject. [:-)] Cheers Peter from dnorl@qwest.net Thu Apr 25 06:56:21 2002 g3PBuK417097 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 06:56:20 - 0000 (63.228.45.174) Subject: Re: Ferrule Plugs I turn down a cut off piece of the rod blank drill it out and glue in apiece of 3/32" brass rod. Glue a piece of cork on the brass rod and thenturn the cork down to fit the ferrule. I'll send a pix if you like.Dave-----Original Message----- Subject: Ferrule Plugs What do you people make your ferrule plugs out of? And if, like me, you make them out of waste bits of rod section, does anyone bother to fit a cork insert to the actual plug bit? It seems to be a real bugger to turn down without ruining the cork, as youare working here with pretty thin cork. I have some that a friend made for me out of Delrin, and while they are not nearly as cool as the bamboo/cork items, they seem more practical. I am hoping that someone on the List might possibly have an opinion on thissubject. [:-)] Cheers Peter from PABIX@aol.com Thu Apr 25 07:08:50 2002 g3PC8n418513 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 07:08:49 - Thu, 25 Apr 2002 08:08:25 -0400 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression oftaperdesign? I too have had a similar experience and it was with my first rod(s). I madetwo Perfectionists and when I went to test them on the lawn I was shocked. Iwas used to an Orvis tip action graphite prior to that and these rods werepolar opposites. I continued to practice lawn casting and took them bothfishing. The advice given so far in the thread is sound. Slow things down withthe casing stroke, use a little less line and don't give up too soon on the rod.In a very short time I have learned to use these rods and have put theplastics in the closet. -- Bill Bixler > from petermckean@netspace.net.au Thu Apr 25 07:28:552002 Received: from whirlwind.netspace.net.au (whirlwind.netspace.net.au From: "Peter McKean" "rodmakers" References:Subject: Re: Ferrule rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Thanks, Dave, but now thatyou have jogged the old memory, I believe that there is a drawing in an oldPlaning Form. What I have been trying to do is to turn down the male sectionout of bamboo to abot 200 -250 thou diameter, glue some cork onto thatand turn the cork down to within about 15-20 thou of that. Makes a niceplug, very firm, very solid, but a real bastard to turn the cork, obviously.Thanks Peter > from ldboyko@cpinternet.com Thu Apr 25 08:32:29 2002 , ,References:Subject: Re:Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taper design? Date: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Hi Tony: Saw your commentson the Para 15, I am planning on building the Perfectionist for my first rod. Ihave cast this rod twice, and at the time did not know anything about it beingPara, just liked the way it cast. I thought this was ;perrty good, a perttygood fast action 4 wt in bamboo, I like this. Am I missing something in myanalysis on the :Pert. Lawn casting is different that cast on the river, so Iam just wondering. Lew ldboyko@cpinternet.com ----- Original Message ---- - ; Sent:Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:32 AM Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, orthe ultimate expression of taper design? Mike Roberts was like that. He'd never seen a working bamboo rod until Igave him the para 15 to try. I thought he'd hate it being a salt water flyfisher used to graphite but he false cast a few times then shot line so far first go I was amazed. The Para 15 is a relatively extreme rod but others like the Driggs andPerfectionist are easier to get used to and are very good all rounders fordry fly and nymphing. Tony I can make a para really sing but I do not prefer them. There is adifference in knowing how to make a tool work and liking it. On the flipside I have at rare times come across a person who had a heck of a timewith a standard rod and worked a para at the first try. Sort of like I can appreciate a Coevette but my PU makes a lot more sense for what I do.A.J. From: "Jeff Schaeffer" Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign?Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:36:05 -0400 I just fired up my new Para-15 for the first time. I honestly do not know what to think.This is the strangest rod I have ever cast. It seems to cast 5, 6, or 7weight lines, but with 5 and 6 weightsI have no loop control whatsoever. With a 7, it is an absolute cannon, but only if I use the shortest yet slowest casting stroke in the history of fly fishing. It IS interesting to feel the butt section flex. And I can throw almost as much line without double hauling as I can with graphite using a double haul. I am certain that the problem is with me, and I fully expected that thistaper would be "different". I also was casting in a rather nasty wind. This is a KT Keller or PT Kellum version depending on your source, flamed, and right on the money as far as the taper goes. Tried 5 and 6 DT lines, and an SA WF-7-F distance taper. But does anyone have any thoughts about how to get the most out ofthem? And in what fishing situations do you prefer your para-15 over other rods? Both praise and criticism of paras in general are acceptable in this thread provided we are tolerant of different views. Jeff Schaeffer _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Apr 25 09:06:58 2002 g3PE6w401342 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:06:58 - g3PE6ltx014528 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:06:47 - Subject: Cedar and Mister Stanley Gents and Ladies, Last night in the shop was a Neanderthalithic experience.... A few days ago, I meandered over to one of our local Amish furniture makers, in search of some pretty type wood to build my drying cabinet. A fruitful search of his wood rack coughed up four planks, 8 1/2' to 9 1/2' long, roughly 9 inches wide and a full inch thick, of lustrous cedar wood. After watching the good Amish craftsman plane the boards down to 3/4"s of an inch thick, I asked what the damages were. He digs out his trusty old wooden ruler to figure out the board feet, and comes up with a total of 21 board feet (This after tossing in a board for free, because a very pretty knot smack dab in the middle of the board popped out and got crunched in the last planer pass), and tells me the total is $49.... Incredible!!!!!! We load the boards in the truck for the ride home, and I take off. Weather that day was sorta nasty, so I had all the windows closed with the heater on. The boards lined up between the front seats and stretching to the back of the inside of the SUV started giving off a wonderful perfume. There ain't nuthin' like fresh cut cedar. One of my buddy's that I work with calls it "Aromatherapy" for the Neanderthal.... Got home that day, and started cutting the boards to size for thedrying cabinet. The bandsaw was making short work of ripping and cross cutting the boards to size (one of the advantages of having a 1" resaw blade on an 18" bandsaw - it don't slow down for hell or high water....). After all the pieces were cut to size, I called it a night. I wasn't able to get back out to the shop until yesterday after work. I opened the garage door, and was again greeted by my Aromatherapy fromthe previous cutting extravaganza (I'd gotten a little pooped, since it was almost midnight when I quit working the other night, and didn't sweep up or vacuum when I was done. Shame on me.... But then again, there was that marvelous little tincture in the air). I popped one of the planks in my new wood vise - thanks guys for all the info on wood vises, by the way, I settled on a Record 7 1/2" wood vise, and it works beautiously!!!! After monkeying around with the wood vise, I drug out Mister Stanley #9 1/2, whispered the required mantras, and proceededto start planing the edges. I wasn't happy with the way the curls were coming off the board, so I starts ta do a little investigatin'. I rips the plane apart, and looks at the blade. I says to me self "Self, sumtin' ain't copascetic here. The blade was coated with what looked to be a cover coat of clear finish of some sort. So, I grabs me my can of Oops (available at your local Wally World, or Kmart if their still around), and wipes down the blade, removing the clear coat. Inserts the blade back into the plane, and ahhhh, muchy smoother, GI. Progress a little further, nicer curls coming off, but now I notice that the curlys a re a bit tapered to one side. Sooooo, I moves the little blade skew management device, and now the curlys are better. Buuuuuut, I looks down at the blade through the top of the plane, and notices that the blade angle ain't perpendicklar to the mouth openin'. Scratchin' me head, I thinks a little more investigatin' is required. I pull the plane apart again, and start looking at the blade, using a square to check the angles. Nope, everything looks just ducky there. Okey Doke, must be something in the blade holding arrangement. Played around with the frog, the blade skew alignment lever and the blade adjustor nut. Nope, everything hunky dory. So I pull off the adjustable throat plate, and stare down the throat of the beast (Yes Virginia, they will bite....). Aha, the veritable light bulb is lit..... The angled ramp where the blade exits the body of the plane has been machined, but not correctly! The angle from back to front on the plane is just fine, but the side to side cut is not parallel with the bottom of the plane. So, whilst the plane is still stripped of its particulate matter, I pull the board out from the vise, and secure the plane body in said vise, with a decent enough angle that I can see both sides and still work on the ramp with a file. I get it filed nice and parallel (at least by the Mark 1 eyeball method), blow out all the metal swarf with an air hose, and proceed to reassemble the plane. Said plane now reassembled, I pop the plank back into the vise, set the plane to take a nice shallow cut, and proceed to make beoootyful music on them cedar planks. The floor littered with aromatic cedar shavings (had visions of doggy beds, with the SWMBO sewing up covers. Nah, too much like household work....), I shaved and shaved the boards to my own level of perfection. Nirvanic. Neanderthalithic. I was in the zone...... Looked at the clock, and OH MY GOD! It's like 1:30 in the morning.... I gots to get up at 0500 hrs to go to work!!!!! Ah well, so I close up the shop, meander into the house, take off the old clothes and climb into bed. My wife rolls over and says, "What in the heck were you doing out there until the wee hours of the morning?" I smiled and said, "It's a guy thing. Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, Arrrrrrggggghhhhh." Cheers,Mark from rextutor@yahoo.com Thu Apr 25 09:15:18 2002 g3PEFH402653 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:15:18 - 25 Apr 2002 07:15:13 PDT Subject: email urban legends and scams- non bamboo Sorry to take up the bandwidth on a non bamboo subjectbut maybe I will save some future bandwidth on nonbamboo subjects. May I suggest before you forward anemail , if it starts with the following or somethinglike it , you consider it as rumor at best. "Everyone who reads this should send it to as manypeople as possible " After you have see a few urban legends you will beable to spot them from the starting gate. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from harms1@pa.net Thu Apr 25 09:20:55 2002 g3PEKs403604 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:20:55 - Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Lew, I think the only thing here is that each person's casting stroke isdifferent. Just think about how many different muscle groups and joints areinvolved in the activity--not to mention hand-eye coordination. I don'tmean to over- complicate the matter, but everyone's response tomuscle-feedback (sense of rhythm, line-speed and timing) is unique. We castpretty much without thinking about it, and usually don't quite "know" whatour own process consists of. Some folks like parabolic action and some do not, but I do not believe thisis a reflection on the rod design itself. You're not missing anything here.It's just that your particular casting style seems to be suited to parabolicaction. One last thing, though. Like so many production rods, the Para- 15underwentmore a few "incarnations," and it is possible that some of us may have builta version of the rod that really isn't so great. I have a friend who boughtthe "Midge," "Perfectionist" and "Para-15" as a matched set back in 1974.The first two are terrific rods, but the Para-15 is perfectly terrible. Hestill has them, and we drag the Para-15 out from time to time, just to seeif our own casting styles have deceived us through the years. Nope. Thatparticular rod is just a "clunker." On the other hand, I have cast otherPara-15s that feel very nice, indeed. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Hi Tony: Saw your comments on the Para 15, I am planning on building the Perfectionist for my first rod. I have cast this rod twice, and at the time did not know anything about it being Para, just liked the way it cast. Ithought this was ;perrty good, a pertty good fast action 4 wt in bamboo, Ilike this. Am I missing something in my analysis on the :Pert. Lawn casting is different that cast on the river, so I am just wondering. Lewldboyko@cpinternet.com----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:32 AMSubject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Mike Roberts was like that. He'd never seen a working bamboo rod until Igave him the para 15 to try. I thought he'd hate it being a salt water fly fisher used to graphite but he false cast a few times then shot line so far first go I was amazed. The Para 15 is a relatively extreme rod but others like the Driggs andPerfectionist are easier to get used to and are very good all rounders for dry fly and nymphing. Tony I can make a para really sing but I do not prefer them. There is adifference in knowing how to make a tool work and liking it. On the flip side I have at rare times come across a person who had a heck of atimewith a standard rod and worked a para at the first try. Sort of like I can appreciate a Coevette but my PU makes a lot more sense for what I do.A.J. From: "Jeff Schaeffer" Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taper design?Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:36:05 -0400 I just fired up my new Para-15 for the first time. I honestly do not know what to think.This is the strangest rod I have ever cast. It seems to cast 5, 6, or 7 weight lines, but with 5 and 6 weightsI have no loop control whatsoever. With a 7, it is an absolute cannon, but only if I use the shortest yet slowest casting stroke in the history of fly fishing. It IS interesting to feel the butt section flex. And I can throw almost as much line without double hauling as I can with graphite using a double haul. I am certain that the problem is with me, and I fully expected that this taper would be "different". I also was casting in a rather nasty wind. This is a KT Keller or PT Kellum version depending on your source, flamed, and right on the money as far as the taper goes. Tried 5 and 6 DT lines, and an SA WF-7-F distance taper. But does anyone have any thoughts about how to get the most out of them? And in what fishing situations do you prefer your para-15 over other rods? Both praise and criticism of paras in general are acceptable in this thread provided we are tolerant of different views. Jeff Schaeffer _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 25 09:23:53 2002 g3PENp404192 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:23:52 - , Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression oftaper design? The para 15 is just a pretty extreme example of the type while also being one of the best known.Because it's well known and recommended by people who like it people not knowing what to expect are often surprised with what they wind up with once made.I think that it's also held up as an example of a para which gives the idea that all paras will be like it to cast which they are not necessarily. The Perfectionist and Driggs for eg are not so extreme and much easier to get a handle on how to use. I guess it's a case of the shorter the rod the less trouble it is to handle and in the case of the Perfectionist the butt is more substantial for the length while the rod is also shorter than the para 15.It's a different taper while still being of parabolic type.The Perfectionist is also just a really nice rod to pick up and use. A good dry fly rod while also slow enough to be a good nymphing rod and deserves the status of classic. IMHO the dif between a good lawn casting rod and a great fishing rod is mainly how they handle in real conditions *where you fish*.If you fish from a boat on a lake with little wind or a lake from the shore with a decent back cast possible it'll be just like lawn casting, a stream will be different.A para can be very hard to handle in strong wind in the field, more so if the country is brushy while on the lawn this wont be an issue because you face in the best direction for casting.Also, while lawn casting it's pretty easy to try to shoot a lot more line than you'll use on a stream in a week so the length of cast people may go real fishing conditions the rod will behave differently because you're not trying to make it blast line.As an example I actually prefer a Para 15 in small streams that are brushy because although it's 2 feet longer than a midge for example being so slow it's easy to cast a short line which isn't the first thing you'd think of when lawn casting.It's not ideal for this I admit but it's also not too bad. Personaly I like paras to fish with except in big water and large fish situations where I think they're useless and prefer a Dickerson which is the anti thesis of a PHY taper. Windy conditions can also make a para almost unfishable depending on the terrain. But, I don't especially like lawn casting with a para and prefer to lawn cast with a Dickerson.On the unfortunately rare times I can get to do some fishing I always take a Driggs, sometimes my Para 15 and always my Dickerson 7614 and can'tsee the day I'll ever be in want for any other trout rod until I make a perfectionist for myself and possibly leave the Para 15 at home. Tony At 08:54 AM 4/25/02 -0700, lew boyko wrote: Hi Tony: Saw your comments on the Para 15, I am planning on building thePerfectionist for my first rod. I have cast this rod twice, and at the timedid not know anything about it being Para, just liked the way it cast. Ithought this was ;perrty good, a pertty good fast action 4 wt in bamboo, Ilike this. Am I missing something in my analysis on the :Pert. Lawn castingis different that cast on the river, so I am just wondering. Lewldboyko@cpinternet.com----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:32 AMSubject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Mike Roberts was like that. He'd never seen a working bamboo rod until Igave him the para 15 to try. I thought he'd hate it being a salt water flyfisher used to graphite but he false cast a few times then shot line so far first go I was amazed. The Para 15 is a relatively extreme rod but others like the Driggs andPerfectionist are easier to get used to and are very good all roundersfordry fly and nymphing. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Thu Apr 25 09:57:34 2002 g3PEvY408748 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 09:57:34 - g3PEvStx016096 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:57:29 - Subject: Re: Cedar and Mister Stanley Bill, I live in Southern Maryland, about 30 minutes south of Washington DC. There's quite a large Amish population down here in Charles, St. Mary's and Calvert Counties. Most of them here are/were tobacco farmers, but quite a few of them do furniture making or wood working. Quite amazing what they do to large power tools, so that they can use them under their religious beliefs. In order for the Amish to use a tool, it can't have electrical power going directly to the tool. So, what the most enterprising of them did, was to convert all the machinery to hydraulic or pneumatic power, depending on the application. The power planer for instance, uses hydraulic power to spin a small turbine that in turn powers the plane blades. The pneumatic tools, such as a drill are run by a compressor. Note that both types of power require some kind "power" to make them operate. They get by the structure of their religion, using a loophole - since the power tool itself isn't directly powered by electricity, that's okay...... The electricity is used to power the air compressor or the hydraulic pump, but not the machines themselves. Kinda a neat concept of operations...... Mark At 07:29 AM 4/25/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark, really enjoyed your account of the Cedar and Mr.Stanley. Can I identify completely with that timewarpyou experienced. Your mention of the Amish makes mewonder where you are? I regularly visit LancasterCounty as its only about an hour away for me and myinlaws live there, as well as a lot of Amish. Are youanywhere near there or are you out west? Bill Walters --- Mark Wendt wrote: Gents and Ladies, Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, Arrrrrrggggghhhhh." Cheers,Mark __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 25 10:07:54 2002 g3PF7q410317 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:07:52 - Subject: Re: Cedar and Mister Stanley It doesn't get much better than the sound of "snick" a well tuned plane taking curls of wood off makes. Tony At 10:06 AM 4/25/02 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote: Gents and Ladies, Last night in the shop was a Neanderthalithic experience.... A few days ago, I meandered over to one of our local Amish furniture makers, in search of some pretty type wood to build my drying cabinet. A fruitful search of his wood rack coughed up four planks, 8 1/2' to 9 1/2' long, roughly 9 inches wide and a full inch thick, of lustrous cedar wood. After watching the good Amish craftsman plane the boards down to 3/4"s of an inch thick, I asked what the damages were. He digs out his trusty old wooden ruler to figure out the board feet, and comes up with a total of 21 board feet (This after tossing in a board for free, because a very pretty knot smack dab in the middle of the board popped out and got crunched in the last planer pass), and tells me the total is $49.... Incredible!!!!!! /****************************** snip *****************/ Looked at the clock, and OH MY GOD! It's like 1:30 in the morning.... I gots to get up at 0500 hrs to go to work!!!!! Ah well, so I close up the shop, meander into the house, take off the old clothes and climb into bed. My wife rolls over and says, "What in the heck were you doing out there until the wee hours of the morning?" I smiled and said, "It's a guy thing. Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, Arrrrrrggggghhhhh." Cheers,Mark /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Thu Apr 25 10:17:43 2002 g3PFHg411580 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:17:42 - Subject: Re: Cedar and Mister Stanley Sounds like they can find loop holes in loop holes. To bad they aren't allowed to lie. They'd be amongst the most honest loop hole finding politicians around."I did not provide electrical power to that machine""I do not consider that to be electrical power""You call that a cigar ???" etc, etc, etc. Tony At 10:57 AM 4/25/02 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote: Bill, I live in Southern Maryland, about 30 minutes south of Washington DC. There's quite a large Amish population down here in Charles, St. Mary's and Calvert Counties. Most of them here are/were tobaccofarmers, but quite a few of them do furniture making or wood working. Quite amazing what they do to large power tools, so that they can use them under their religious beliefs. In order for the Amish to use a tool, it can't have electrical power going directly to the tool. So, what the most enterprising of them did, was to convert all the machinery to hydraulic or pneumatic power, depending on the application. The power planer for instance, uses hydraulic power to spin a small turbine that in turn powers the plane blades. The pneumatic tools, such as a drill are run by a compressor. Note that both types of power require some kind "power" to make them operate. They get by the structure of their religion, using a loophole - since the power tool itself isn't directly powered by electricity, that's okay...... The electricity is used to power the air compressor or the hydraulic pump, but not the machines themselves. Kinda a neat concept of operations...... Mark At 07:29 AM 4/25/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark, really enjoyed your account of the Cedar and Mr.Stanley. Can I identify completely with that timewarpyou experienced. Your mention of the Amish makes mewonder where you are? I regularly visit LancasterCounty as its only about an hour away for me and myinlaws live there, as well as a lot of Amish. Are youanywhere near there or are you out west? Bill Walters --- Mark Wendt wrote: Gents and Ladies, Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, Arrrrrrggggghhhhh." Cheers,Mark __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from Grayson.Davis@valpo.edu Thu Apr 25 10:30:11 2002 g3PFUB413350 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:30:11 - g3PFU7o25881 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:30:07 - M2002042510300604754 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:30:07 - Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Not only are different folks different, but people change over time. I made a Para 15 with the "wet and dry" tips a few years ago. I liked a #7 line on it then, but I wasn't crazy about the rod. Nowadays, I've come to love a #5 on it, and I flirt with a #4. That wet tip I can still take or leave. I think that the comment about different versions of the same rod name rings true also. Para 15 wet and dry tips were posted to this list by someone who worked in the "Young factory." But, to my knowledge, the taper of the Keller version has never been posted. According to Schwiebert (yeah, I know) the Keller had, "a slow-acting butt." Now I once found a Para 15 with a butt like that, but it was going to cost me $1,500 to measure it. Lew, would you consider posting your taper? - Grayson On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 10:16:23 -0400 WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Lew, I think the only thing here is that each person's casting stroke isdifferent. Just think about how many different muscle groups and jointsareinvolved in the activity--not to mention hand-eye coordination. I don'tmean to over- complicate the matter, but everyone's response tomuscle-feedback (sense of rhythm, line-speed and timing) is unique. Wecastpretty much without thinking about it, and usually don't quite "know" whatour own process consists of. Some folks like parabolic action and some do not, but I do not believe thisis a reflection on the rod design itself. You're not missing anything here.It's just that your particular casting style seems to be suited to parabolicaction. One last thing, though. Like so many production rods, the Para- 15underwentmore a few "incarnations," and it is possible that some of us may have builta version of the rod that really isn't so great. I have a friend who boughtthe "Midge," "Perfectionist" and "Para-15" as a matched set back in 1974.The first two are terrific rods, but the Para-15 is perfectly terrible. Hestill has them, and we drag the Para-15 out from time to time, just to seeif our own casting styles have deceived us through the years. Nope. Thatparticular rod is just a "clunker." On the other hand, I have cast otherPara-15s that feel very nice, indeed. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "lew boyko" ; Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:54 AMSubject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Hi Tony: Saw your comments on the Para 15, I am planning on building the Perfectionist for my first rod. I have cast this rod twice, and at the time did not know anything about it being Para, just liked the way it cast. Ithought this was ;perrty good, a pertty good fast action 4 wt in bamboo,Ilike this. Am I missing something in my analysis on the :Pert. Lawn casting is different that cast on the river, so I am just wondering. Lewldboyko@cpinternet.com----- Original Message -----From: Tony Young Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 12:32 AMSubject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Mike Roberts was like that. He'd never seen a working bamboo rod untilIgave him the para 15 to try. I thought he'd hate it being a salt water fly fisher used to graphite but he false cast a few times then shot line so far first go I was amazed. The Para 15 is a relatively extreme rod but others like the Driggs andPerfectionist are easier to get used to and are very good all rounders for dry fly and nymphing. Tony I can make a para really sing but I do not prefer them. There is adifference in knowing how to make a tool work and liking it. On the flip side I have at rare times come across a person who had a heck of atimewith a standard rod and worked a para at the first try. Sort of like I can appreciate a Coevette but my PU makes a lot more sense for what Ido.A.J. From: "Jeff Schaeffer" Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taper design?Date: Wed, 24 Apr 2002 18:36:05 -0400 I just fired up my new Para-15 for the first time. I honestly do not know what to think.This is the strangest rod I have ever cast. It seems to cast 5, 6, or 7 weight lines, but with 5 and 6 weightsI have no loop control whatsoever. With a 7, it is an absolute cannon, but only if I use the shortest yet slowest casting stroke in the history of fly fishing. It IS interesting to feel the butt section flex. And I can throw almost as much line without double hauling as I can with graphite using a double haul. I am certain that the problem is with me, and I fully expected that this taper would be "different". I also was casting in a rather nasty wind. This is a KT Keller or PT Kellum version depending on your source,flamed, and right on the money as far as the taper goes. Tried 5 and 6 DT lines, and an SA WF-7-F distance taper. But does anyone have any thoughts about how to get the most outof them? And in what fishing situations do you prefer your para-15 over other rods? Both praise and criticism of paras in general are acceptable in this thread provided we are tolerant of different views. Jeff Schaeffer _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device:http://mobile.msn.com /*************************************************************************/ AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ -----------------------------------------Grayson DavisEmail: Grayson.Davis@valpo.eduValparaiso University from harms1@pa.net Thu Apr 25 12:51:11 2002 g3PHpB400927 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 12:51:11 - Subject: The Amish--non rodmaking (sue me) Mark and Bill, The Amish are not nearly as homogeneous in their beliefs and practices asmost people think. I live in Perry County, PA and there are a fair numberof Amish living from here on up the western side of the Susquehanna Valley.When we built our present house two years ago, I got a fair amount of wood from an Amish sawmill about half an hour north. His mill is powereddirectly by diesel engines, but he will not use a telephone, calculator oranything eletrical. His home nearby uses no modern conveniences. The subcontractor I used for framing my house was an Amishman who sent ateam up from Shippensburg (to the southwest). The owner of this businesshas a telephone only in his barn ( from which he runs his business), and hassix framing crews that he contracts out to anyone needing the work. Five Amishmen comprised the crew, and all were between the ages of 16- 19.They were driven to work each day by a local Mennonite. One Mennonite ishired on for each crew to serve as a dirver, but never as the foreman. Iwas pretty skeptical about a bunch of kids building my house, but only untilthey strapped on their aprons. They had every power tool imaginable. Neverin my life have I seen such industry and precision. Each one had a "job,"did not speak more than half a dozen words to one another (except forbreaktime), and worked absolutely at a dizzying speed until the job wascompleted. Of all the various subs on my job, these Amishmen were the onlyones who ever gave me full eight-hour days and an actual 40-hour week. (Iasked them for permission to videotape their activity, and each one told meto "knock myself out." Not quite the vernacular I had expected.) Both the sawer and the construction crew told me that local bishops retainauthority to approve businesses and working conditions, and that almostanything MIGHT be acceptable, depending upon the welfare of the community.Believe me, there's much to be said in favor of these folks and their ways! Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Cedar and Mister Stanley Bill, I live in Southern Maryland, about 30 minutes south of WashingtonDC. There's quite a large Amish population down here in Charles, St.Mary's and Calvert Counties. Most of them here are/were tobaccofarmers,but quite a few of them do furniture making or wood working. Quite amazing what they do to large power tools, so that they can use them under theirreligious beliefs. In order for the Amish to use a tool, it can't haveelectrical power going directly to the tool. So, what the mostenterprising of them did, was to convert all the machinery to hydraulic orpneumatic power, depending on the application. The power planer forinstance, uses hydraulic power to spin a small turbine that in turn powersthe plane blades. The pneumatic tools, such as a drill are run by acompressor. Note that both types of power require some kind "power" tomake them operate. They get by the structure of their religion, using aloophole - since the power tool itself isn't directly powered byelectricity, that's okay...... The electricity is used to power the aircompressor or the hydraulic pump, but not the machines themselves. Kindaaneat concept of operations...... Mark At 07:29 AM 4/25/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark, really enjoyed your account of the Cedar and Mr.Stanley. Can I identify completely with that timewarpyou experienced. Your mention of the Amish makes mewonder where you are? I regularly visit LancasterCounty as its only about an hour away for me and myinlaws live there, as well as a lot of Amish. Are youanywhere near there or are you out west? Bill Walters --- Mark Wendt wrote: Gents and Ladies, Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, Arrrrrrggggghhhhh." Cheers,Mark __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from bhoy551@earthlink.net Thu Apr 25 13:54:39 2002 g3PIsc406853 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:54:38 - Thu, 25 Apr 2002 14:54:31 -0400 Subject: test FILETIME=[A2110170:01C1EC8A] Sorry for the bandwidth. UUNet is having problems and half the east coast is dead on the Internet. Just checking to see if the list is affected since I haven't gotten any mail lately. from horsesho@ptd.net Thu Apr 25 13:58:07 2002 g3PIw6407669 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 13:58:07 - by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4197. .Clear:0. Processed in 1.795303 secs); 25 Apr 2002 18:52:21 -0000 sender ) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: The Amish--non rodmaking (sue me) --------------000400030407000206050103 Hi Bill, Here in NJ there are South American Crews (Hispanic) that would put those Amish to shame. Marty WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Mark and Bill, The Amish are not nearly as homogeneous in their beliefs and practices asmost people think. I live in Perry County, PA and there are a fair numberof Amish living from here on up the western side of the SusquehannaValley.When we built our present house two years ago, I got a fair amount of wood from an Amish sawmill about half an hour north. His mill is powered directly by diesel engines, but he will not use a telephone, calculator oranything eletrical. His home nearby uses no modern conveniences. The subcontractor I used for framing my house was an Amishman who sentateam up from Shippensburg (to the southwest). The owner of this businesshas a telephone only in his barn ( from which he runs his business), and hassix framing crews that he contracts out to anyone needing the work. Five Amishmen comprised the crew, and all were between the ages of 16- 19.They were driven to work each day by a local Mennonite. One Mennonite ishired on for each crew to serve as a dirver, but never as the foreman. Iwas pretty skeptical about a bunch of kids building my house, but only untilthey strapped on their aprons. They had every power tool imaginable. Neverin my life have I seen such industry and precision. Each one had a "job,"did not speak more than half a dozen words to one another (except forbreaktime), and worked absolutely at a dizzying speed until the job wascompleted. Of all the various subs on my job, these Amishmen were theonlyones who ever gave me full eight-hour days and an actual 40-hour week. (Iasked them for permission to videotape their activity, and each one told meto "knock myself out." Not quite the vernacular I had expected.) Both the sawer and the construction crew told me that local bishops retainauthority to approve businesses and working conditions, and that almostanything MIGHT be acceptable, depending upon the welfare of thecommunity.Believe me, there's much to be said in favor of these folks and their ways! Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Mark Wendt" Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:57 AMSubject: Re: Cedar and Mister Stanley Bill, I live in Southern Maryland, about 30 minutes south of WashingtonDC. There's quite a large Amish population down here in Charles, St.Mary's and Calvert Counties. Most of them here are/were tobaccofarmers,but quite a few of them do furniture making or wood working. Quite amazing what they do to large power tools, so that they can use them under theirreligious beliefs. In order for the Amish to use a tool, it can't haveelectrical power going directly to the tool. So, what the mostenterprising of them did, was to convert all the machinery to hydraulic orpneumatic power, depending on the application. The power planer forinstance, uses hydraulic power to spin a small turbine that in turn powersthe plane blades. The pneumatic tools, such as a drill are run by acompressor. Note that both types of power require some kind "power" tomake them operate. They get by the structure of their religion, using aloophole - since the power tool itself isn't directly powered byelectricity, that's okay...... The electricity is used to power the aircompressor or the hydraulic pump, but not the machines themselves.Kinda aneat concept of operations...... Mark At 07:29 AM 4/25/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark, really enjoyed your account of the Cedar and Mr.Stanley. Can I identify completely with that timewarpyou experienced. Your mention of the Amish makes mewonder where you are? I regularly visit LancasterCounty as its only about an hour away for me and myinlaws live there, as well as a lot of Amish. Are youanywhere near there or are you out west? Bill Walters --- Mark Wendt wrote: Gents and Ladies, Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, Arrrrrrggggghhhhh." Cheers,Mark __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ --------------000400030407000206050103 would WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Mark and Bill,The Amish are not nearly ashomogeneous in their beliefs and practices asmost people think. I live inPerry County, PA and there are a fair numberof Amish living from hereon up the western side of the Susquehanna Valley.When we built ourpresent house two years ago, I got a fair amount of wood from an Amishsawmill about half an hour north. His mill is powereddirectly by dieselengines, but he will not use a telephone, calculator oranything eletrical. His home nearby uses no modern conveniences.The subcontractor Iused for framing my house was an Amishman who sent ateam up fromShippensburg (to the southwest). The owner of this businesshas atelephone only in his barn ( from which he runs his business), and hassixframing crews that he contracts out to anyone needing thework.Five Amishmen comprised the crew, and all were between theages of 16-19.They were driven to work each day as a dirver, but never as the foreman. Iwas pretty skeptical about abunch of kids building my house, but only untilthey strapped on theiraprons. They had every power tool imaginable. Neverin my life have Iseen such industry and precision. Each one had a "job,"did not speakmore than half a dozen words to one another (except forbreaktime),and worked absolutely at a dizzying speed until the job wascompleted. Of all the various subs on my job, these Amishmen were the onlyoneswho ever gave me full eight-hour days and an actual 40-hour week. (Iasked them for permission to videotape their activity, and each onetold meto "knock myself out." Not quite the vernacular I hadexpected.)Both the sawer and the construction crew told me thatlocal bishops retainauthority to approve businesses and workingconditions, and that almostanything MIGHT be acceptable, depending upon the welfare of the community.Believe me,there's much to be said in favor of these folks and theirways!Cheers, Bill----- Original Message ----- Re: Cedar and Mister Stanley Bill, I live in Southern Maryland, about 30 minutessouth of WashingtonDC. There's quite a large Amish population downhere in Charles, St.Mary's and Calvert Counties. Most of them hereare/were tobacco farmers,but quite a few of them do furniture makingor wood working. Quite amazing what they do to large power tools, so that they can use themunder theirreligious beliefs. In order for the Amish to use a tool, it can'thaveelectrical power going directly to the tool. So, what themostenterprising of them did, was to convert all the machinery tohydraulic orpneumatic power, depending on the application. The powerplaner forinstance, uses hydraulic power to spin a small turbine that inturn powersthe plane blades. The pneumatic tools, such as a drill arerun by acompressor. Note that both types of power require some kind"power" tomake them operate. They get by the structure of theirreligion, using aloophole - since the power tool itself isn't directlypowered byelectricity, that's okay...... The electricity is used to powerthe aircompressor or the hydraulic pump, but not the machinesthemselves. Kinda aneat concept ofoperations......MarkAt 07:29 AM 4/25/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark, really enjoyed your account of the Cedar andMr.Stanley. Can I identify completely with that timewarpyouexperienced. Your mention of the Amish makes mewonder where youare? I regularly visit LancasterCounty as its only about an hour away forme and myinlaws live there, as well as a lot of Amish. Areyouanywhere near there or are you out west?Bill Gents and Ladies, Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, Arrrrrrggggghhhhh." Cheers,Mark __________________________________________________DoYou Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool andmorehttp://games.yahoo.com/ --------------000400030407000206050103-- from Troy.Miller@BakerOilTools.com Thu Apr 25 15:20:16 2002 g3PKKF419240 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:20:15 - (bhihdcimc01.bakerhughes.com [204.253.245.34] (may be forged)) for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:20:08 - (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:02:02 -0500 Subject: For Rick Crenshaw Rick, have you received any of the three or four e-mails that I've sent youover the last couple days? I am getting messages that they can't bedelivered. Sorry for doing this on-list, guys Regards -- TAM from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Thu Apr 25 17:21:47 2002 g3PMLf429029 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:21:41 - Thu, 25 Apr 2002 15:21:40 PDT Subject: Re: The Amish--non rodmaking (sue me) Somehow I doubt it Marty. I've seen what Bill istalking about and when it comes to skilled labor, theAmish are hard to beat. My inlaws live in LancasterCounty and have a few Amish acquaintenances. Bill Walters --- "Marty D." wrote: Hi Bill, Here in NJ there are South American Crews(Hispanic) that would put those Amish to shame. Marty WILLIAM HARMS wrote: Mark and Bill, The Amish are not nearly as homogeneous in their beliefs and practices as most people think. I live in Perry County, PA and there are a fair number of Amish living from here on up the western side of the Susquehanna Valley. When we built our present house two years ago, I got a fair amount of wood from an Amish sawmill about half an hour north. His mill is powered directly by diesel engines, but he will not use a telephone, calculator or anything eletrical. His home nearby uses no modern conveniences. The subcontractor I used for framing my house was an Amishman who sent a team up from Shippensburg (to the southwest). The owner of this business has a telephone only in his barn ( from which he runs his business), and has six framing crews that he contracts out to anyone needing the work. Five Amishmen comprised the crew, and all were between the ages of 16-19. They were driven to work each day by a local Mennonite. One Mennonite is hired on for each crew to serve as a dirver, but never as the foreman. I was pretty skeptical about a bunch of kids building my house, but only until they strapped on their aprons. They had every power tool imaginable. Never in my life have I seen such industry and precision. Each one had a "job," did not speak more than half a dozen words to one another (except for breaktime), and worked absolutely at a dizzying speed until the job was completed. Of all the various subs on my job, these Amishmen were the only ones who ever gave me full eight-hour days and an actual 40-hour week. (I asked them for permission to videotape their activity, and each one told me to "knock myself out." Not quite the vernacular I had expected.) Both the sawer and the construction crew told me that local bishops retain authority to approve businesses and working conditions, and that almost anything MIGHT be acceptable, depending upon the welfare of the community. Believe me, there's much to be said in favor of these folks and their ways! Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Mark Wendt" Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 10:57 AMSubject: Re: Cedar and Mister Stanley Bill, I live in Southern Maryland, about 30 minutes south of Washington DC. There's quite a large Amish population down here in Charles, St. Mary's and Calvert Counties. Most of them here are/were tobacco farmers, but quite a few of them do furniture making or wood working. Quite amazing what they do to large power tools, so that they can use them under their religious beliefs. In order for the Amish to use a tool, it can't have electrical power going directly to the tool. So, what the most enterprising of them did, was to convert all the machinery to hydraulic or pneumatic power, depending on the application. The power planer for instance, uses hydraulic power to spin a small turbine that in turn powers the plane blades. The pneumatic tools, such as a drill are run by a compressor. Note that both types of power require some kind "power" to make them operate. They get by the structure of their religion, using a loophole - since the power tool itself isn't directly powered by electricity, that's okay...... The electricity is used to power the air compressor or the hydraulic pump, but not the machines themselves. Kinda a neat concept of operations...... Mark At 07:29 AM 4/25/2002 -0700, you wrote: Mark, really enjoyed your account of the Cedar and Mr. Stanley. Can I identify completely with that timewarp you experienced. Your mention of the Amish makes me wonder where you are? I regularly visit LancasterCounty as its only about an hour away for me and my inlaws live there, as well as a lot of Amish. Are you anywhere near there or are you out west? Bill Walters --- Mark Wendt wrote: Gents and Ladies, Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, Arrrrrrggggghhhhh." Cheers,Mark __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and more http://games.yahoo.com/ __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from parataper@hotmail.com Thu Apr 25 18:04:35 2002 g3PN4Z400241 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:04:35 - Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:04:22 -0700 Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:04:22 GMT Subject: mini lathe FILETIME=[8986BA50:01C1ECAD] Hey guys, Thanks, MPSend andreceive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Thu Apr 25 18:10:27 2002 g3PNAP400729 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:10:26 - 0000 Subject: Tony Specio Hola Tony. Perdone que yo lo moleste con este asunto. Usted una vez me =explico como trabaja usted poniendo en remojo las varillas despues de =haberlas cortado. Yo no puedo entender el sistema para desplazar los =nudos. Yo usualmente no soy tan duro de cabeza:-)). Pero con la =traduccion me las veo negra. Si usted tiene paciencia y me lo puede =explicar de nuevo, yo se lo agradecere. Muchas gracias. PD. Si alguno =pienza que yo tengo cabeza de piedra, no se equivocan :-))). Hello Tony. Forgive that I bother it with this matter. You once explain =to myself like you work putting in soaking the bars after having them =cut. I cannot understand the system to displace the knots. I am not =usually so hard of head: -)). But with the translation I see them to me =black. If you have patience and he/she can explain to it again, I will =thank it to him. Thank you. PD. If some pienza that I have stone head, = Hola Tony. Perdone que yo lo moleste con este asunto. Usted una vez = explico como trabaja usted poniendo en remojo las varillas despues de = cortado. Yo no puedo entender el sistema para desplazar los nudos. Yo = no soy tan duro de cabeza:-)). Pero con la traduccion me las veo negra. = tiene paciencia y me lo puede explicar de nuevo, yo se lo agradecere. = gracias. PD. Si alguno pienza que yo tengo cabeza de piedra, no se = :-))).Hello Tony. Forgive that I bother it with this matter. You once = myself like you work putting in soaking the bars after having them cut. = understand the system to displace the knots. I am not usually so hard of = -)). But with the translation I see them to me black. If you have = he/she can explain to it again, I will thank it to him. Thank you. PD. = from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Thu Apr 25 18:15:22 2002 g3PNFL401558 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:15:21 - 0000 Subject: Test Test. Test. from bob@downandacross.com Thu Apr 25 18:24:01 2002 g3PNO0402982 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:24:01 - Subject: RE: mini lathe Use your drill press and then turn the filler on a mandrel?Bob M.-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:04 PM Subject: mini lathe Hey guys, This is a question for all you mini lathe owners. I purchased a 7X10 minilathe which is ideal for making reel seat fillers, but I find that I can'tbore out the fillers because there isn't room for the filler, drill chuckand the bit. The filler won't go into the lathe chuck because it is tolarge for the chuck center hole. Any solutions other than a bigger lathe?I thought this one would be fine, and it would be if it wasn't for this.Does anyone know if I can get a lathe chuck for a Shopsmith machine? Thanks, MP ------------------------------------------------------------------------------Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here drill press and then turn the filler on a mandrel? M. petrieSent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:04 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: mini =lathe Hey guys, 7X10 mini lathe which is ideal for making reel seat fillers, = Thanks, MP Here from Lazybee45@aol.com Thu Apr 25 18:45:00 2002 g3PNix405917 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:44:59 - Subject: Re: The Amish--non rodmaking (sue me) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu In a message dated 4/25/02 12:52:49 PM Central Daylight Time,harms1@pa.net writes: I live in eastern iowa where Amish are all over the place, driving buggies and plowing with horse drawn teams. They are hard working and industrious nearly to a fault and are quite nice people. Yes, they are not homogenious. Some drive cars, some use electricity and there are other versions as well. but over all, they are "plain folk". not much of a problem for us around here. mark visit Wood Art Custom Designs http://woodartcustom.freeservers.com or http://hometown.aol.com/lazybee45/myhomepage/business.html Hand crafted items made to order! from cdn@ticon.net Thu Apr 25 19:01:50 2002 g3Q01n408349 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:01:49 - (66.181.136.144) Subject: router bits Three cheers for Dave! Got my bit in the mail today Dave and looks real good, the radiusis right on. You've done us all a great service by designing/ordering/anddistributing these bits. I really appreciate it, thank you. Ned from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Thu Apr 25 19:05:47 2002 g3Q05j409029 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:05:45 - Thu, 25 Apr 2002 17:05:36 -0700 Fri, 26 Apr 2002 00:05:36 GMT Subject: Re: mini lathe FILETIME=[17C2A600:01C1ECB6] Mark-I have a 7x12 and do this with room to spare. Turn your filler .100 over size. Mount it directly in the chuck, center drill, bore it out 1/2 way using a parabolic bit. Turn filler around and repeat going far enough through to meet your first bore. If you use a 3/8 bit, use a 3/8 mandrel to finish turning your seat. I use a standard piece of 3/8 aluminum round stock with a centering hole cut in one end for a center and two 3/8 drill stops on either side to keep the filler still on the mandrel if it wants to play. I'm sure someone will have something simpler, but it works for me. Best,Eamon From: "mark petrie" Subject: mini latheDate: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:04:22 -0500 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:04:22 -0700 MHotMailBE91D658004D40042A1F80FC7801BDF40; Thu, 25 Apr 200216:03:55 -0700 g3PN4p400265; g3PN4Z400241 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:04:35 - Thu, 25 Apr 2002 16:04:22 -0700 Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:04:22 GMT Subject: mini lathe FILETIME=[8986BA50:01C1ECAD] Hey guys, Thanks, MPSend andreceive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Apr 25 19:09:57 2002 g3Q09u409882 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:09:56 - Subject: Re: router bits In a message dated 04/25/2002 8:02:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,cdn@ticon.net writes: The same goes for me, too. Thanks Dave. Dave L. check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site- http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Thu Apr 25 19:50:35 2002 g3Q0oX413331 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:50:34 - 0000 Subject: Re: Tony Specio En el "Powerfibers" revista electr=F3nica en la telara=F1a, Tony tuvo un =art=EDculo muy bueno en desplazar de node. Vaya al www.powerfibers.com =asunto de com y cheque numera cinco. Si pide una se=F1a, yo pienso era =el "Salm=F3n". Esto tiene los retratos y limpia explicar de texto el =proceso. Espero traduce OK para usted. La construcci=F3n de la buena = KurtNixa, MO-----Original Message-----From: Alberto Usman Subject: Tony Specio Hola Tony. Perdone que yo lo moleste con este asunto. Usted una vez =me explico como trabaja usted poniendo en remojo las varillas despues de =haberlas cortado. Yo no puedo entender el sistema para desplazar los =nudos. Yo usualmente no soy tan duro de cabeza:-)). Pero con la =traduccion me las veo negra. Si usted tiene paciencia y me lo puede =explicar de nuevo, yo se lo agradecere. Muchas gracias. PD. Si alguno =pienza que yo tengo cabeza de piedra, no se equivocan :-))). Hello Tony. Forgive that I bother it with this matter. You once =explain to myself like you work putting in soaking the bars after having =them cut. I cannot understand the system to displace the knots. I am not =usually so hard of head: -)). But with the translation I see them to me =black. If you have patience and he/she can explain to it again, I will =thank it to him. Thank you. PD. If some pienza that I have stone head, = Hola Alberto, En el "Powerfibers" = electrónica en la telaraña, Tony tuvo un artículo = en desplazar de node. Vaya al www.powerfibers.com asunto decom y = "Salmón". Esto tiene los retratos y limpia explicar de = proceso. Espero traduce OK para usted. La construcción de la = suerte. KurtNixa, =MO -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Specio Hola Tony. Perdone que yo lo moleste con este asunto. Usted una = explico como trabaja usted poniendo en remojo las varillas despues = haberlas cortado. Yo no puedo entender el sistema para desplazar los = Yo usualmente no soy tan duro de cabeza:-)). Pero con la traduccion = veo negra. Si usted tiene paciencia y me lo puede explicar de nuevo, = lo agradecere. Muchas gracias. PD. Si alguno pienza que yo tengo = piedra, no se equivocan :-))).Hello Tony. Forgive that I bother it with this matter. You once = to myself like you work putting in soaking the bars after having = cannot understand the system to displace the knots. I am not usually = of head: -)). But with the translation I see them to me black. If = patience and he/she can explain to it again, I will thank it to him. = you. PD. If some pienza that I have stone head, doesn't make a = -))). from kurt.clement@flashmail.com Thu Apr 25 19:59:23 2002 g3Q0xM414684 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 19:59:22 - Subject: Re: Tony Specio Hola Alberto,Aqu=ED est=E1 el texto ingl=E9s de mi mensaje m=E1s temprano Here is the English text from my message earlier. Hello Alberto,In the Powerfibers electronic magazine on the web, Tony had a very good =article on node displacing. Go to www.powerfibers.com and check issue =number five. If it asks for a password, I think it was "Salmon". This =has pictures and clear text explaining the process. I hope it =translates OK for you. Good luck building. Kurt-----Original Message-----From: Kurt Clement rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Tony Specio En el "Powerfibers" revista electr=F3nica en la telara=F1a, Tony =tuvo un art=EDculo muy bueno en desplazar de node. Vaya al =www.powerfibers.com asunto de com y cheque numera cinco. Si pide una =se=F1a, yo pienso era el "Salm=F3n". Esto tiene los retratos y limpia =explicar de texto el proceso. Espero traduce OK para usted. La = KurtNixa, MO-----Original Message-----From: Alberto Usman Subject: Tony Specio Hola Tony. Perdone que yo lo moleste con este asunto. Usted una =vez me explico como trabaja usted poniendo en remojo las varillas =despues de haberlas cortado. Yo no puedo entender el sistema para =desplazar los nudos. Yo usualmente no soy tan duro de cabeza:-)). Pero =con la traduccion me las veo negra. Si usted tiene paciencia y me lo =puede explicar de nuevo, yo se lo agradecere. Muchas gracias. PD. Si =alguno pienza que yo tengo cabeza de piedra, no se equivocan :-))). Hello Tony. Forgive that I bother it with this matter. You once =explain to myself like you work putting in soaking the bars after having =them cut. I cannot understand the system to displace the knots. I am not =usually so hard of head: -)). But with the translation I see them to me =black. If you have patience and he/she can explain to it again, I will =thank it to him. Thank you. PD. If some pienza that I have stone head, = Hola Alberto,Aquí está el texto inglés de mi = más temprano Here is the English text from my message =earlier. Hello Alberto,In the Powerfibers electronic = check = Kurt -----Original = Kurt Clement <kurt.clement@flashmail.com= rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= SpecioHola Alberto, En el "Powerfibers" = electrónica en la telaraña, Tony tuvo un = bueno en desplazar de node. Vaya al www.powerfibers.com asunto de= "Salmón". Esto tiene los retratos y limpia explicar = texto el proceso. Espero traduce OK para usted. La = buena suerte. KurtNixa, =MO rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Specio Hola Tony. Perdone que yo lo moleste con este asunto. Usted = me explico como trabaja usted poniendo en remojo las varillas = haberlas cortado. Yo no puedo entender el sistema para desplazar = traduccion me las veo negra. Si usted tiene paciencia y me lo = explicar de nuevo, yo se lo agradecere. Muchas gracias. PD. Si = pienza que yo tengo cabeza de piedra, no se equivocan =:-))).Hello Tony. Forgive that I bother it with this matter. You = explain to myself like you work putting in soaking the bars = them cut. I cannot understand the system to displace the knots. = usually so hard of head: -)). But with the translation I see = black. If you have patience and he/she can explain to it again, = thank it to him. Thank you. PD. If some pienza that I have stone = from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Thu Apr 25 20:19:48 2002 g3Q1Jl417621 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:19:47 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 170uL5-0004th-00; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:15:55 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: router bits Mine came yesterday. Wish I had something ready to try it on now! Many thanks to Dave LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 04/25/2002 8:02:52 PM Eastern Daylight Time,cdn@ticon.net >writes: Three cheers for Dave! Got my bit in the mail today Dave and looks real good, the radiusis right on. You've done us all a great service by designing/ordering/anddistributing these bits. I really appreciate it, thank you. Ned The same goes for me, too. Thanks Dave. Dave L. check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site- http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Thu Apr 25 21:02:10 2002 g3Q22A421051 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:02:10 - Subject: Re: mini lathe I had a 7x10 and traded up to a 7x12 the first week because of the lack ofspace for this sort of work and turning grips. There just isn't enough room could have the reel seat filler INSIDE the 3 jaw chuck, but I didn't thinkof this until just now. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: mini lathe Mark-I have a 7x12 and do this with room to spare. Turn your filler .100 oversize. Mount it directly in the chuck, center drill, bore it out 1/2 wayusing a parabolic bit. Turn filler around and repeat going far enoughthrough to meet your first bore. If you use a 3/8 bit, use a 3/8 mandrel to finish turning your seat. I use a standard piece of 3/8 aluminum round stock with a centering hole cut in one end for a center and two 3/8 drill stops on either side to keep the filler still on the mandrel if it wants to play. I'm sure someone will have something simpler, but it works for me. Best,Eamon From: "mark petrie" Subject: mini latheDate: Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:04:22 -0500 _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from jojo@ipa.net Thu Apr 25 21:58:04 2002 g3Q2w3422662 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:58:04 -0500 helo=default) id 170vvt-00042a-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:58:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Tony Specio] Alberto, Me Tony preguntõ para repuestar. Las tiras te necesitas poner en remojo portres a cinco d¯as.Entonces te puedes calentar los nudos con un heat gun. El heat gun necesitaestar a caliente mximo.Solamente calientas cado uno de los nudos por un minuto o menos pero tenecesitas calentar cada ladodel nudo, no solo un lado, tambiÄn. Si no tienes un heat gun te puedes usaruna lampara de alcoholpero esto requirir ms tiempo o exposiciõn al calor. Cuando el nudo estflexible desde el calor,ponerlo en un torno y se puede apretarlo en los lados y en el lado de barn¯z,tambien. Es muy simplepero te necesitas tener un torno expecial o quizs tornos multiples conaccesorios diferentes. Tepuedes ver ejemplos ahttp://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Cont/Contraptions/Node_Flatttening/node_flatttening.html Te enviarÄ ms fotograf¯as de mis tornos tamb¯en. El foto de mio en el sitiode web es solo para lastiras que se han estado esbozado toscamente. En el foto de Tony te haces caso del nudo lo que ha estado dejado hueco en ellado contrario delbarn¯z. Necesitar hacer esto ante las tiras te pones en remojo. Si tienes preguntas solamente te necesitas preguntar. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Subject: [Fwd: Tony Specio] Jo Jo,Can you help me with this one.I am sure the translation will not be clearenough.Tony from jojo@ipa.net Thu Apr 25 21:58:40 2002 g3Q2wd422769 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:58:39 -0500 helo=default) id 170vwT-0005XE-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:58:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Ferrule Plugs I've done it this way, and done them out of brass, as well as NS. M-D I turn down a cut off piece of the rod blank drill it out and glue in apiece of 3/32" brass rod. Glue a piece of cork on the brass rod and thenturn the cork down to fit the ferrule. I'll send a pix if you like.Dave What do you people make your ferrule plugs out of? from jojo@ipa.net Thu Apr 25 22:00:21 2002 g3Q30K423160 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:00:20 -0500 helo=default) id 170vy5-00066W-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:00:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Fonda - off subject Amen. M-D I can suggest a site for anyone who wants to view a strictly moderatedforum. [:)] I have no problem with off-topic posts. I can hit the delete key as fast asanyone, especially if the subject line is worded correctly. I rather enjoythe fact that we can share ideas that are not strictly related to rodmaking. There is a book titled "Aid and Comfort" which documents Fonda's actions inVietnam rather well. Larry Blan from jojo@ipa.net Thu Apr 25 22:22:50 2002 g3Q3Mo424863 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:22:50 -0500 helo=default) id 170wJq-0003mC-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:22:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Outrageous read this Well hell, since we're off topic anyway . . . I had a friend (died last =year) who was a survivor of the USS Houston (an unbelievable story in =itself www.usshouston.org) As such, he and many of his fellow survivors =were interned with the Japanese, and helped build the Railway of Death =and the bridge over the River Kwai (the movie was complete and utterly =fabricated BS). Ross had been back several times to these "reunions", =meeting with his fellow prisoners and their captors. I once asked him if =he had any animosity or bitterness towards his captors. He replied, ="Nah. I used to but hell, those men had jobs to do just like we did." In =previous conversations he related to me how brutal were the Japanese =when they were in the jungle. Yet, despite all he'd seen and =experienced, the wounds healed, and he no longer hated any of his =captors, and was able to sit down with them and talk. Now, that's =forgiveness.During all this time he was listed as KIA, and a memorial service was =held for him. It was not known that he had survived until his return to =the States. He said the looks people would give him, as if he really =were the walking dead, caused him more pain than anything the Japanese =ever did to him. M-D In my Life in Society class, my professor fought in Vietnam (Marine). =He recently returned from Vietnam (last week),on one of those "go back =to find the meaning of things." He talked to many people who were in the =NVA and Viet Cong. He is writing a book on his experiences and when he =returned, he addressed the class. I was surprised when I asked him "did =you have any animosity towards the Vietnamese you interviewed?" He =looked at me with the straightest face and said, "No." My point is, we =should not forget those who died and served our country. However, what I = Tony Miller Well hell, since we're = anyway . . . I had a friend (died last year) who was a survivor of the = Houston (an unbelievable story in itself www.usshouston.org) As such,he = his fellow survivors were interned with the Japanese, and helped build = Railway of Death and the bridge over the River Kwai (the movie was = utterly fabricated BS). Ross had been back several times to these = meeting with his fellow prisoners and their captors. I once asked him if = any animosity or bitterness towards his captors. He replied, "Nah. I = hell, those men had jobs to do just like we did." In previous = related to me how brutal were the Japanese when they were in the jungle. = despite all he'd seen and experienced, the wounds healed, and he no = any of his captors, and was able to sit down with them and talk. Now, = forgiveness.During all this time he= KIA, and a memorial service was held for him. It was not known that he = survived until his return to the States. He said the looks people would = anything the Japanese ever did to him. M-D Anthony Miller In my Life in Society class, my professor fought in Vietnam = recently returned from Vietnam (last week),on one of those "go back to = Millerwww.homestead.com/= from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Thu Apr 25 22:23:07 2002 g3Q3N6424877 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 22:23:06 - Thu, 25 Apr 2002 20:23:00 -0700 Subject: Re: mini lathe FILETIME=[AB37B7C0:01C1ECD1] Another solution is to bore your filler first on a drill press. Mount =the block in vise, drill halfway, then reverse it and drill out the =other side. Put your filler on a threaded mandrel and hold it in place =with hex nuts. Of course, this only works if you have a drill press and =a brad-point bit. You will then have all the room you need for turning. Center boring is more accurate, though. Jeff Schaeffer Another solution is to bore your filler = drill press. Mount the block in vise, drill halfway, then reverse it and = out the other side. Put your filler on a threaded mandrel and hold it in = with hex nuts. Of course, this only works if you have a drill press and = turning. though. Jeff = Schaeffer from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Thu Apr 25 23:31:27 2002 g3Q4VP427145 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:31:26 - (authenticated) for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 21:31:23 -0700 Subject: Trying out tapers Folks, Was wondering about something. Those of youwho design your own tapers, how do you try themout? You can do only so much with a computer anda pile of graph paper. There comes a time whenyou have to make shavings. Once you get a new blank built, do you have aremovable handle assembly of some sort? Do youtape guides on and build up a duct tape grip?Electric tape for a reel seat? What do you do totry out your rods before going to all the troubleof finishing them out? I know I've finished out my share of rods thatwill never see the light of day. Stripped thecomponents off and used them on different rods.Any better ideas? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from caneman@clnk.com Thu Apr 25 23:51:12 2002 g3Q4pB427662 for ; Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:51:11 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Trying out tapers Harry,Here's my routine. I put the ferrules and tip top on with hot melt glue(the cheap stuff, so when the rod isn't like I want it, I can take them offeasy for the next try) put the guides on with black electrical tape, have acouple of old stock grips around that I slip on and taped down with maskingtape, electrical tape the reel in place and give it a try... then I usuallyend up throwing the first few attempts in the corner for the burn pile anduse the same hardware to try until I get it right.now, with everything in place, I clamp it to my bench, run the linethrough the guides, find the best guide placement, and check to see if it'sbending right (the way I think it should, at least). When I'm satisfiedthat it's close, i take it in the front yard and cast it. I test it foraccuracy, delicacy and distance. If it performs like I wanted it to(usually on the third or fourth rod at the most), then I'll strip all thetemp stuff off and start finishing it like a real rod. If not, then it goesin the burn pile for Mom's fireplace kindling! Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Trying out tapers Folks, Was wondering about something. Those of youwho design your own tapers, how do you try themout? You can do only so much with a computer anda pile of graph paper. There comes a time whenyou have to make shavings. Once you get a new blank built, do you have aremovable handle assembly of some sort? Do youtape guides on and build up a duct tape grip?Electric tape for a reel seat? What do you do totry out your rods before going to all the troubleof finishing them out? I know I've finished out my share of rods thatwill never see the light of day. Stripped thecomponents off and used them on different rods.Any better ideas? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dnhayashida@yahoo.com Fri Apr 26 01:07:44 2002 g3Q67h429187 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 01:07:43 -0500 25 Apr 2002 23:07:42 PDT Subject: Re: Trying out tapers Tape the guides on, use hot melt glue for ferrules andtip top. I don't use a handle and reel seat just tosee how it casts. I put the reel on the ground, or ina jacket pocket. Be careful about cleaning the rodwhen you are done though, some line cleaners havesilicone in them - messes up your varnish if youdecide to finish the rod.Darryl Hayashida --- Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, Was wondering about something. Those of youwho design your own tapers, how do you try themout? You can do only so much with a computer anda pile of graph paper. There comes a time whenyou have to make shavings. Once you get a new blank built, do you have aremovable handle assembly of some sort? Do youtape guides on and build up a duct tape grip?Electric tape for a reel seat? What do you do totry out your rods before going to all the troubleof finishing them out? I know I've finished out my share of rods thatwill never see the light of day. Stripped thecomponents off and used them on different rods.Any better ideas? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from dickay@alltel.net Fri Apr 26 05:51:47 2002 g3QApk402230 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 05:51:46 -0500 srv.alltel.net Subject: Test Test from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 26 07:15:41 2002 g3QCFe403349 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 07:15:40 -0500 26 Apr 2002 08:13:34 -0400 Subject: RE: Trying out tapers HI Harry:I hope this generates some more posts.I have been tinkering with prototype rods for a while now. I picked up someWells grips of eBay a while back that have a gigantic 5/8" bore. I take afew turns of duct tape (wide enough to support the handle) and slide thegrip in place. For the reelseat, I have tried taping reels directly on, butit doesn;t really feel nice when casting. What I am planing to do next is todrill a pilot hole in the butt end. I will make up a stop piece that willscrew into the small hole and hold the reel seat floating in place. Betweenthe grip and the end stop the reelseat should stay put. The small hole coulddouble if you later use an eye hook to dip your rods with. I usually drill asmall hole there anyway when I turn the grip so hat I can use the livecenter.I finish out about half of rods because I don't find them to be all thatbad. I do not take too many major chances on them. I finish them quick withnylon and the one thread technique. I give them to a buddy who fishes themwith his dad. I make a cork filler for them and some simple bands. Withferrules, I might have only about $50 into them. That's okay with me. Theunused half become parts for ferrule plugs and trying wrap colors.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Trying out tapers Folks, Was wondering about something. Those of youwho design your own tapers, how do you try themout? You can do only so much with a computer anda pile of graph paper. There comes a time whenyou have to make shavings. Once you get a new blank built, do you have aremovable handle assembly of some sort? Do youtape guides on and build up a duct tape grip?Electric tape for a reel seat? What do you do totry out your rods before going to all the troubleof finishing them out? I know I've finished out my share of rods thatwill never see the light of day. Stripped thecomponents off and used them on different rods.Any better ideas? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from rkrees@mcn.net Fri Apr 26 08:43:19 2002 g3QDhI406142 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 08:43:18 -0500 helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 17160K-0002NW-00; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 06:43:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Trying out tapers ?HarryJust about all I do is make test tapers and stoke the fire, though in thepast few years I havesurprised myself and friends with some fine rods. I built a grip on a finepiece of clear polytubing complete with a cork filler and cheap bands. I have several corkinserts for the top end(complements of Darryl that he sent extra with a order) made fromcompositecork that fit in thetop. The butt cap has a small pin which goes into a pilot hole drilled intothe butt of the rod. Forferrules I have made one piece joints of most popular sizes by machining todiameter and boringin both ends mounted with "cheap hot glue" Tape the guides cast and stripthrough in the corneris about all there is to it.Ron from rmoon@ida.net Fri Apr 26 09:07:44 2002 g3QE7h407512 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:07:43 -0500 0000 Subject: Re: Trying out tapers Bob, I will volunteer to burn all of your culls. Ralph Bob Nunley wrote: If it performs like I wanted it to(usually on the third or fourth rod at the most), then I'll strip all thetemp stuff off and start finishing it like a real rod. If not, then it goesin the burn pile for Mom's fireplace kindling! Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message -----From: "Harry Boyd" Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 11:28 PMSubject: Trying out tapers Folks, Was wondering about something. Those of youwho design your own tapers, how do you try themout? You can do only so much with a computer anda pile of graph paper. There comes a time whenyou have to make shavings. Once you get a new blank built, do you have aremovable handle assembly of some sort? Do youtape guides on and build up a duct tape grip?Electric tape for a reel seat? What do you do totry out your rods before going to all the troubleof finishing them out? I know I've finished out my share of rods thatwill never see the light of day. Stripped thecomponents off and used them on different rods.Any better ideas? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 26 11:00:54 2002 g3QG0s413733 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 11:00:54 -0500 helo=elmo.psp.pas.earthlink.net) id 17189R-00016Q-00; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 09:00:49 -0700 by elmo.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3QG0jr15493; Subject: Re: mini lathe Hi Mark. I started out with a 7x10 and upgraded it to a 7x12 when LittleMachine Shop started selling the bed extension kits. Here's what I did. First, I was never able to get the drilling from both sides to center wellenough. There would always be some misalignment and the mandrel wouldwobble. You wouldn't see it in the finished rod but I knew it was there. Ididn't have a working drill press when I started so I drilled on the lathe. I drillall the way through the insert. If it is off, the turning will bring it into true. You can either turn the block down to a cylinder using a woodworking "spur"or drill first. The spur in a 1MT can sometimes be found at Harbor Freight To drill the block, I bought screw machine bits. These are short drill bits andwill allow you to start the hole. When you have drilled the length of the screwmachine drill bit, back it out and replace it with a jobber length drill bit andfinish the hole. To turn the drilled block down to an insert, make a mandrel. Mine is a 3/8"rod with a 1/2" end pieces that capture the rod. One end is dimpled to runon the live center and the other is held either by the chuck or 1/2" collet. Make the mandrel long enough to allow the tool post to move enough to turnthe entire insert. Mine pretty much takes up the entire bed. Now, the handiest addition I've found is a trim router. These can be had forabout $20 from Harbor Freight and down to $10 from Homier. Set your latheup for horizontal milling using a cheap vise as shown in "Varmint Al's" webpage (~ $16 total for angle plate and vise) or get a Taig milling adapter ~$40. Make an adapter to hold the router to the vise. A PVC pipe coupling justlarger than the router screwed to a piece of angle metal (al or iron) workswell. Now you are set up with the wood turning in the mandrel and the routermounted to the tool post. Turn both the lathe and router on and let thelathe power drive the router to turn down the insert. When you have theinsert turned to the desired dimensions, turn the lathe and router off,replace the router straight bit with the fingernail bit, position the router andperform the mortising. A finished insert requiring only light sanding forfinishing. One note. When you do the mortising, unplug the lathe. It'sawfully easy to reach for the wrong switch and turn the lathe on instead ofthe router. Anyway, this is the way I have mine set up. I really like these lathes. I'venever been sorry I bought mine. Regards,OnisK5vkq@ix.netcom.com On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 18:04:22 -0500 mark petrie wrote: Hey guys, This is a question for all you mini lathe owners. I purchased a 7X10 mini lathewhich is ideal for making reel seat fillers, but I find that I can't bore out thefillers because there isn't room for the filler, drill chuck and the bit. Thefiller won't go into the lathe chuck because it is to large for the chuck centerhole. Any solutions other than a bigger lathe? I thought this one would befine, and it would be if it wasn't for this. Does anyone know if I can get alathe chuck for a Shopsmith machine? Thanks, MPSend and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: Click Here from twilhelm@occasionalrod.com Fri Apr 26 12:33:58 2002 g3QHXw418881 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:33:58 -0500 Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:33:57 -0400 Subject: Re: mini lathe Since we are talking mini lathes, let me pass on to the list that Grizzleyhas their 7x12 on sale for $475 with $30 shipping. This is more expensivethen the others, but is longer than the Harbor Freight and includes someaccessories such as a steady rest. I quess I'm supposed to add that I have no financial interest. Tim from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Apr 26 12:35:18 2002 g3QHZH419101 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:35:18 -0500 Subject: Nodeless Splices Hi All, Try as I may I can't seem to get the splices to line-up right. Let me tell what I want to do in the following order. Not wanting to put =any heat on the glue joint, rough plan the strips a little oversize for =the largest dimension of the section, bind and heat treat. Cut the =splice angle and glue the strips. I've tried using: all kinds of clamps, made clamps, made V blocks and =forced the joint into the V and plain old warp the joint. All to no =avail. Everything slips slightly or at least doesn't line up right as =far as I'm concerned. The only way I can get a good glue joint is heat treat the split chop =sticks, splice and then plane the strips. To me, I lose any =straightening, what little there may be, during the heat treating doing =it this way. Any ideas ? TIA, Don Hi All, Try as I may I can't seem to get the = line-up right. a little oversize for the largest dimension of the section, bind and = Cut the splice angle and glue the strips. I've tried using: all kinds of clamps, = made V blocks and forced the joint into the V and plain old warp the = to no avail. Everything slips slightly or at least doesn't line up right = as I'm concerned. The only way I can get a good glue = doing it this way. TIA, = from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 26 12:49:57 2002 g3QHnu419909 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:49:56 -0500 helo=bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net) id 1719r1-00057y-00; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:49:55 -0700 by bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3QHntl02048; Subject: Re: Nodeless Splices I gave up rough planing before gluing splices real quick. I heat treated, cutthe splices and glued. If they needed straightning, I did it after the splicegluing. Compared to noded, I never had a straightning problem with nodeless. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:41:38 -0700 Don Schneider wrote: Hi All, Try as I may I can't seem to get the splices to line-up right. Let me tell what I want to do in the following order. Not wanting to put any heat on the glue joint, rough plan the strips a little oversize for the largest dimension of the section, bind and heat treat. Cut the splice angle and glue the strips. I've tried using: all kinds of clamps, made clamps, made V blocks and forced the joint into the V and plain old warp the joint. All to no avail. Everything slips slightly or at least doesn't line up right as far as I'm concerned. The only way I can get a good glue joint is heat treat the split chop sticks, splice and then plane the strips. To me, I lose any straightening, what little there may be, during the heat treating doing it this way. Any ideas ? TIA, Don from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 26 12:58:44 2002 g3QHwi420409 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:58:44 -0500 helo=elmo.psp.pas.earthlink.net) id 1719zW-0001US-00; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 10:58:42 -0700 by elmo.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3QHwgZ03338; Subject: Re: mini lathe Homier sells the 7x12 for $299. Their shipping charges are high but as theyare also a traveling road show, send them an email. They may be in yourarea next week. If so, no shipping charges. They are also light on theacessories. Micro Mark is the highest priced of the 7x12 but theysupposedly done a good bit of quality control and have implemented inchbased lead screws rather than "calibrated" metric. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com On Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:25:55 -0400 Tim Wilhelmwrote: Since we are talking mini lathes, let me pass on to the list that Grizzleyhas their 7x12 on sale for $475 with $30 shipping. This is more expensivethen the others, but is longer than the Harbor Freight and includes someaccessories such as a steady rest. I quess I'm supposed to add that I have no financial interest. Tim from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Apr 26 13:19:11 2002 g3QIJA421545 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:19:10 -0500 Subject: RE: Trying out tapers Harry, How about using some hose clamps? An old grip, a clamp would hold it inplace, also use them like slide ring bands and tighten them up enough tohold the reel in place. Pete -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Trying out tapers HI Harry:I hope this generates some more posts.I have been tinkering with prototype rods for a while now. I picked up someWells grips of eBay a while back that have a gigantic 5/8" bore. I take afew turns of duct tape (wide enough to support the handle) and slide thegrip in place. For the reelseat, I have tried taping reels directly on, butit doesn;t really feel nice when casting. What I am planing to do next is todrill a pilot hole in the butt end. I will make up a stop piece that willscrew into the small hole and hold the reel seat floating in place. Betweenthe grip and the end stop the reelseat should stay put. The small hole coulddouble if you later use an eye hook to dip your rods with. I usually drill asmall hole there anyway when I turn the grip so hat I can use the livecenter.I finish out about half of rods because I don't find them to be all thatbad. I do not take too many major chances on them. I finish them quick withnylon and the one thread technique. I give them to a buddy who fishes themwith his dad. I make a cork filler for them and some simple bands. Withferrules, I might have only about $50 into them. That's okay with me. Theunused half become parts for ferrule plugs and trying wrap colors.Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Trying out tapers Folks, Was wondering about something. Those of youwho design your own tapers, how do you try themout? You can do only so much with a computer anda pile of graph paper. There comes a time whenyou have to make shavings. Once you get a new blank built, do you have aremovable handle assembly of some sort? Do youtape guides on and build up a duct tape grip?Electric tape for a reel seat? What do you do totry out your rods before going to all the troubleof finishing them out? I know I've finished out my share of rods thatwill never see the light of day. Stripped thecomponents off and used them on different rods.Any better ideas? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from oossg@vbe.com Fri Apr 26 13:36:59 2002 g3QIaw422923 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:36:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Trying out tapers Harry,You should finish them out in your usual wonderful way. If the rod isgood you don't waste time and effort. If the rod is no good, just takeit down to the local furniture and decorating store, I hear they paygood dollars just to put it on the wall!Scott Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, Was wondering about something. Those of youwho design your own tapers, how do you try themout? You can do only so much with a computer anda pile of graph paper. There comes a time whenyou have to make shavings. Once you get a new blank built, do you have aremovable handle assembly of some sort? Do youtape guides on and build up a duct tape grip?Electric tape for a reel seat? What do you do totry out your rods before going to all the troubleof finishing them out? I know I've finished out my share of rods thatwill never see the light of day. Stripped thecomponents off and used them on different rods.Any better ideas? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Apr 26 13:43:22 2002 g3QIhL423384 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:43:21 -0500 Subject: Tip top meets the butt A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night athin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack)slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in thefall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce Ifeel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stoppedgrabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later thewife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain isexcruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metalring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tiptop. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes saysshe better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a pieceof a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. Thedoctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. Iexplained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group ofresidents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laughabout this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in thegarbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking hishead. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Fridaylaugh. Take care, Peter from dickay@alltel.net Fri Apr 26 13:50:11 2002 g3QIoA423986 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:50:10 -0500 srv.alltel.net Fri, 26 Apr 2002 13:50:09 -0500 "Rod Makers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt Peter, You working on trying to catch up to Nunley? It will take more thanthat! I know that it hurt, but your pride was probably damaged the most ofall. Hope you heal fast!Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Tip top meets the butt A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night athin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack)slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in thefall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce Ifeel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stoppedgrabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later thewife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain isexcruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metalring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tiptop. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes says she better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a piece of a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. Thedoctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. Iexplained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group ofresidents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laugh about this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in the garbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking hishead. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Friday laugh. Take care, Peter from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Apr 26 14:01:13 2002 g3QJ1D424836 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:01:13 -0500 Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:00:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt FILETIME=[A4358050:01C1ED54] Jeff Schaeffer, where are you??? Can we re-open the "April Fool NunleyWannabe" award process back up or does this one have to wait until nextyear? Peter, I really do feel for you, but.......I'm ROTFLMAO, I'm sure with alot of other guys! Peter Van Schaack wrote: A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night athin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack)slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in thefall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce Ifeel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stoppedgrabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later thewife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain isexcruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metalring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tiptop. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes saysshe better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a pieceof a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. Thedoctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. Iexplained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group ofresidents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laughabout this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in thegarbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking hishead. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Fridaylaugh. Take care, Peter -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from caneman@clnk.com Fri Apr 26 14:02:19 2002 Received: from Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:00:12 -0500 Message-ID:From: "Bob Nunley" , "Rod Makers \(E-mail\)"References: Subject: Re: Tip Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Peter, Personally, I'm proudthat you remained calm enough to realize that you needed that brokensection to repair the rod... there ARE priorities in life, ya know! Welcome toEXTREME RODMAKING!!! Maybe ESPN will do a special on us one day! LOL Oh,and thanks for the laugh... I really needed it today! Later, Bob Subject: Tip top meets the buttDoc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws inthe garbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking his head. from dryfly@erols.com Fri Apr 26 14:02:44 2002 g3QJ2h425182 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:02:43 -0500 ([208.58.203.115] helo=erols.com) id 171AzS-0001Eg-00; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:02:42 -0400 Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt Peter See what happens when you use a rod with a line weight too light for thesituation. Thanks for sharing this, great humor for a Friday afternoon. Notsure where you are located, but the Mid-Atlantic Fly Fishing Guide sponsorsanannual broken rod contest and this sounds like a winner to me. Bob Peter Van Schaack wrote: A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night athin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack)slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in thefall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce Ifeel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stoppedgrabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later thewife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain isexcruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metalring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tiptop. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes saysshe better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a pieceof a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. Thedoctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. Iexplained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group ofresidents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laughabout this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in thegarbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking hishead. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Fridaylaugh. Take care, Peter from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Fri Apr 26 14:05:12 2002 g3QJ5B425682 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:05:11 -0500 26 Apr 2002 12:05:10 PDT Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt todd, i think you should include this in your "tips"section on your web site. timothy --- Todd Talsma wrote: Jeff Schaeffer, where are you??? Can we re-open the"April Fool NunleyWannabe" award process back up or does this one haveto wait until nextyear? Peter, I really do feel for you, but.......I'mROTFLMAO, I'm sure with alot of other guys! Peter Van Schaack wrote: A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night a thin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack) slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in the fall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce I feel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stopped grabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later the wife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain is excruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metal ring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tip top. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes says she better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a piece of a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. The doctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. I explained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group of residents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laugh about this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in the garbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking his head. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Friday laugh. Take care, Peter -- Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from dryfly@erols.com Fri Apr 26 14:07:37 2002 g3QJ7a426019 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:07:37 -0500 ([208.58.203.115] helo=erols.com) id 171B4B-0002EF-00; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:07:36 -0400 "Rod Makers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt Peter, I wonder if every time you hook fish on the rod you'll get shooting pain in yourback side (a little voodoo)? Bob Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: Peter, You working on trying to catch up to Nunley? It will take more thanthat! I know that it hurt, but your pride was probably damaged the most ofall. Hope you heal fast!Dick Fuhrman ----- Original Message -----From: "Peter Van Schaack" Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 1:45 PMSubject: Tip top meets the butt A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night athin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rodsack)slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in thefall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce Ifeel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stoppedgrabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later thewife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain isexcruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metalring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tiptop. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes says she better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a piece of a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. Thedoctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage.Iexplained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group ofresidents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laugh about this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in the garbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking hishead. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Friday laugh. Take care, Peter from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Apr 26 14:10:52 2002 g3QJAp426420 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:10:51 -0500 Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:10:12 -0400 "Rod Makers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt FILETIME=[FD603BB0:01C1ED55] What do you think Peter? Want to be know as "Tip in the butt Dutchman" from now on? timothy troester wrote: todd, i think you should include this in your "tips"section on your web site. timothy --- Todd Talsma wrote: Jeff Schaeffer, where are you??? Can we re-open the"April Fool NunleyWannabe" award process back up or does this one haveto wait until nextyear? Peter, I really do feel for you, but.......I'mROTFLMAO, I'm sure with alot of other guys! Peter Van Schaack wrote: A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night a thin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack) slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in the fall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce I feel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stopped grabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later the wife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain is excruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metal ring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tip top. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes says she better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a piece of a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. The doctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. I explained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group of residents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laugh about this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in the garbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking his head. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Friday laugh. Take care, Peter --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Apr 26 14:24:40 2002 Received: from g3QJOd427560 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 rwcrmhc53.attbi.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127- ; Fri, 26Apr 2002 19:24:34 +0000 Message-ID: mail\)" References:Subject: Re: Tip top 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook V5.50.4807.1700 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CRENPeter, Which parts do you need the scarfing advice on ? I've heard of rodsthat were a pain in the you know where but this one takes the cake. Heal fastand get back out there fishing ! Don > from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us FriApr 26 14:24:47 2002 Received: from mailhost.ev.state.az.us ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:18:38 -0700 Received: from ev.state.az.us BY webshld.adeq.lcl ; Fri Apr 26 12:26:25 2002 -0700 Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:24:31 -0700 Message-Id:X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise Internet Agent5.5.3.1 Date: Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:24:24 - 0700 From: "James Harris" from quoted-printable to 8bit by wugate.wustl.edu id g3QJOl427570 Reply- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Your never going to hear theend of this Peter. It could turn out to be a real cain in the ass. "Peter Van Schaack" 04/26/0211:45AM >>> A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night athin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack) slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in thefall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce Ifeel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stoppedgrabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later thewife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain isexcruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metalring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tiptop. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes saysshe better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a pieceof a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. Thedoctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. Iexplained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group ofresidents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laughabout this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in thegarbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking hishead. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Fridaylaugh. Take care, Peter from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Fri Apr 26 14:24:58 2002 g3QJOv427627 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:24:58 -0500 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:24:56 -0400 Subject: VIRUS: Hi list, I have been receiving a bunch of e-mail with attachments, I have not openedthem but my gut instinct is that the attachment is a virus. SO BEWARE,DON'TOPEN THEM. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod MakerUpstream Custom Rods name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" eJ8+IicTAQaQCAAEAAAAAAABAAEAAQeQBgAIAAAA5AQAAAAAAADoAAEIgAcAGAAAAElQTS5NaWNyb3NvZnQgTWFpbC5Ob3RlADEIAQ2ABAACAAAAAgACAAEGgAMADgAAANIHBAAaAA8AGgAAAAUAJQEBA5AGAGwMAAAlAAAACwACAAEAAAALACMAAAAAAAMAJgAAAAAACwApAAAAAAADADYAAAAAAB4AcAABAAAABwAAAFZJUlVTOgAAAgFxAAEAAAAWAAAAAcHtWElQPP/Y2VjqEdaaAt1Qq3FzRAAAAgEdDAEAAAAjAAAAU01UUDpST0RTVVBTVFJFQU1ARVhQTE9SRU1BSU5FLkNPTQAACwABDgAAAABAAAYOAJROMljtwQECAQoOAQAAABgAAAAAAAAAzFTkWVIfwRGEbAaI1VDIV8KAAAALAB8OAQAAAAIBCRABAAAAEwgAAA8IAADUEwAATFpGdXD3VnUDAAoAcmNwZzEyNXIyDGBjMQMwAQcLYG6RDhAwMzMPFmZlD5JPAfcCpANjAgBjaArAc4RldALRcHJxMgAAkioKoW5vElAgMAHQhQHQNg+gMDUwNBQh8wHQFBA0fQdtAoMAUAPU+xH/EwtiE+EUUBOyGPQU0PMHEwKDMjcC4xa/EwkcciMUUBzbfVN3BbBkc3kVtjI4Gn8bjxyfHaBDEQrAbmVnCJBFeHRLCfABAGQCgzM0EY4yFjMesRdyIAdtIENFPSMUNSOPFEAkvyXFeXLnIxQaYRGsMTYWMSgPA4L6RwnRayMUHrEqHg5QKz+tA3NUCHAjFDktXzcaYUMurwOCKEhlYglwd+4pAoMUUDCfNySvMsYHEJ8BoA3gM6UWMSodODY1X/UlxEIHQHQN4DO0LnEWbPckiAcTJhY0D8A7PifHPMV9KWU0JqEWbCr4PMQsmDTfONFAfi52PMQv9jQaYUB9/zGnPMQzPB6xRd48TDbMMIG/QH04xzzEOlYCkQjmOwlv6jBOz2UOMDVP+lERUM//UdlP5FICUG9UP1P9U39Rr/9P/xBgHqBZylrhWp9bqU/kf1vSWj9eD13NXU9bf19EOb8OUGKUY/FcE2PwWcM1ONAfCcNIgVwUT+ACkXN0eapsB5BoCeB0AABxAyE8bGkBQAUQAUAD8GRj7HRsCrEAYHMKsGigH0ARaOJudW0CAGFhdcR0bwBgZGp1ZtAFEHhnaHRoAQoBZ9AKAWn5AZBwMAMxFjIMAQ9XEBjPCNAJwGhgbKNucGz5bpTdAzBzIkAioGwATgWwAMBzAnMTEGNzD5ADMGpgZOlrwGl2E4BEARBqEDpwNCBQCsBhCcBr4GggNkYCIWaTMSagZ5JmaXotD5A4a1J0U2gcM2Bk3nIJUHXyFqB18ndAMTNg/2kAAdBxUWkPah9rJnRTa8/3bN9t727+YnewCYACIHrxz2/jc7BycGshdC1zEANhCjo5QG+AsFN1YmqlBZB0gLBEYSKwOnNk/zjQc+90/3YPdx94L3k/ekz/ZyCHsAuADhJ68QwweyQOUJ97r3y/fc9+33/nUmVx0P0fYSAzQIewBJBzZBpggn9/g4+En4Wvhr4IYGiQC4Bl+2cAcdBsAUCHv4jPidQgwWUI0GIKsHQ4imh7hjI/I3AQFpuxjGQTUBdwb29+Zoy/jc+O15qAj/ALUHneL3MglFALEZBlc3NkHrD/kV+Sb5N/lI+Gv5ePek97X/+L752vnr+fz6DSgNKAdIGpfzCAZ59or6afas+o5JozOT+pL6o/q0+sX47ItWBEb+5jsqAJ8AVATajwcLalk+9xhrWFnHEAQDe5KHEyseCfkCECIDzxZsAFoG1wE2K2RQDAAxBTZuJmdTIAUP+wf7GPsp+zr6jvtk+3X7hv946LwIC/YC2/ggYAw/C+kLp0CHBlTfMTEE7gdgJRoCB7VW5rE1B3FdG+fcFizGDBoKRBAYBugTDfAGAiwY6gAOATUHgLYAJA1G95CfBccABwZyAAIP8LkBNQckGkQMIgAOECMAJguQCAYmQMMBNRCrBjARAfBbByQAIBcHCJsmVcaKUFsHrOEmRnAMByImA7C5DS8GjRIziwAUFnds/TudJxw/CoYTcwAFDUQbnVNTk4I3DTgtJwd9XD/9b0gUDPIABwCzDOEWbgvkClDlB2CJB3awuAZCNw/9jyBPAHQBBhAUAOAKQSZzB3w4DaVQIQb8QgwiCgYHT/zHCW0c1i2+fEEADAw0DCIP+c4dCQxBDDgQkyw7CW8AJQ/wdAC5De8QJR2UHA4Nvw2eH7waACYHffswJRACAJwMDg+c2QcmvRkbxiH4ES8iKwh78QzoETgEM6XFyAAHpvcsFtcxADEAeQ4zBNzw3gA2C+cAGAIE8BIA3gvdJQXOTmD5PPAL+CLo6g/nTMsB9wwaCg8MSCcAABQH8iwd3wBJDSUObylsLHIjP3E/Dm5HIUY8vxEwIAgAWQ+Gx2bABQwsEFAMLw6oH/AZAAIOsC2UG6wQHB6nEfQJ8PcAAAwsAM0AGQIC7LRH/qhg5Q6yLP0euP7J/tr2y/D8DCwAWB71/wb/F/bCNw38LA4CDvL/Pv9PQp7ewmoPfyv/ef9NRiMyACkfi/6rP/OND2b/sv/D/9T+rgGmD+kv/rb///AQ/t7B6w/p8EHwUv/wY/6uAwgAMfCK8JvwrEEyH/20DbAMXQtGDA0MC/wc/C3//D78T/xg/HH8grTiGbErzIGEhpIBCgZtAsDQplD5IgGjVJIB9AcdFivU9RIE7g0VBxwInxIPUwKGJ1bh8wIJ1AIGX7ykRAgHRzAE4SGNzOkdSQ8mi6snMsGwbRAHJgnQB7T2BO8CAdsOKQHIFyYG34eSBnIVG0YGbQtGARUP8h4DYAHbCBsCDiHvkicvUwU9jw0ZBzLsqQTzpARRBXQVJFH7BET063He8QgDkQdduQ4vBU5NCIUEVOOUBIRU3t0F8lrxqWGjUs8tkAbNhAZv8qYE7wFJDqQiqRIfIYkijTAEFVVE9URVhUuExJUycw4zA2ACLKPn4iHdAwMipgQRByUTPRMp9Fohk1m0+cUpz1IFXPMJcTgJCA47BB4GBheR+gvykvL2BIki/PMN8dAFQz47cvjzVPMaRp47C6cHUTsbJ5GjVSb6DwuwBroVC7GjUyB0MTYb8AOpJzNsX/N48xDimWD38QjxGfEq8Tvz8UzxXfFu8X/L0iP2cAAAFKMAALAAGACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAADhQAAAAAAAAMAEIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAFKFAAAnagEAHgASgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAVIUAAAEAAAAEAAAAOS4wAB4AE4AIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAADaFAAABAAAAAQAAAAAAAAAeABSACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAA3hQAAAQAAAAEAAAAAAAAAHgAVgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAOIUAAAEAAAABAAAAAAAAAAsAFoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAIKFAAABAAAACwBDgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAADoUAAAAAAAADAEWACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAAQhQAAAAAAAAMARoAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAABGFAAAAAAAAAwBHgAggBgAAAAAAwAAAAAAAAEYAAAAAGIUAAAAAAAADAFuACCAGAAAAAADAAAAAAAAARgAAAAABhQAAAAAAAAsAbIAIIAYAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAaFAAAAAAAAAgH4DwEAAAAQAAAAzFTkWVIfwRGEbAaI1VDIVwIB+g8BAAAAEAAAAMxU5FlSH8ERhGwGiNVQyFcCAfsPAQAAAIIAAAAAAAAAOKG7EAXlEBqhuwgAKypWwgAAUFNUUFJYLkRMTAAAAAAAAAAATklUQfm/uAEAqgA32W4AAABDOlxXSU5ET1dTXExvY2FsIFNldHRpbmdzXEFwcGxpY2F0aW9uIERhdGFcTWljcm9zb2Z0XE91dGxvb2tcb3V0bG9vay5wc3QAAAADAP4PBQAAAAMADTT9NwAAAgF/AAEAAAA9AAAAPE1CQkJJRUdNTUtOTURCQUpKS0VJQUVFRUNKQUEucm9kc3Vwc3RyZWFtQGV4cGxvcmVtYWluZS5jb20+AAAAAAMABhAxblv5AwAHELwAAAADABAQAAAAAAMAERAAAAAAHgAIEAEAAABlAAAASElMSVNULElIQVZFQkVFTlJFQ0VJVklOR0FCVU5DSE9GRS1NQUlMV0lUSEFUVEFDSE1FTlRTLElIQVZFTk9UT1BFTkVEVEhFTUJVVE1ZR1VUSU5TVElOQ1RJU1RIQVRUSEVBVAAAAADnJA== from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 26 14:45:56 2002 g3QJjt429958 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:45:56 -0500 helo=bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net) id 171BfH-0006s3-00; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 12:45:55 -0700 by bigbird.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3QJjsh18820; Subject: Re: Trying out tapers Looks like I am the odd man. I am also the incredable optomist so I finishevery rod. Since I am a non profit (very) establishment with only onecustomer (me), every rod is a prototype. The taper design falls in with allthe rest. The taper may be pared with new varnish, a new reel seat design,porcelain stripper guides (coming up in a couple of months) or some otherioditic experiment I have concocted. Also I accumulat building experiencewith each rod. So far about half of the rods I've built have been my owntaper. Some are good, some are not so good. Anyway the satisfaction ofdoing my own taper when it is good is worth the ones that are somethingless. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com On Thu, 25 Apr 2002 23:28:58 -0500 Harry Boyd wrote: Folks, Was wondering about something. Those of youwho design your own tapers, how do you try themout? You can do only so much with a computer anda pile of graph paper. There comes a time whenyou have to make shavings. Once you get a new blank built, do you have aremovable handle assembly of some sort? Do youtape guides on and build up a duct tape grip?Electric tape for a reel seat? What do you do totry out your rods before going to all the troubleof finishing them out? I know I've finished out my share of rods thatwill never see the light of day. Stripped thecomponents off and used them on different rods.Any better ideas? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from dryfly@erols.com Fri Apr 26 14:58:25 2002 g3QJwO400969 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:58:24 -0500 ([208.58.203.115] helo=erols.com) id 171BrL-00054O-00; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:58:23 -0400 Subject: Tip top meets the butt/Trying out tapers Harry I would not recommend Peter's method of trying out tapers! Just had to tie these two topics together,Bob Peter Van Schaack wrote: A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night athin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack)slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in thefall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce Ifeel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stoppedgrabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later thewife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain isexcruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metalring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tiptop. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes saysshe better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a pieceof a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. Thedoctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. Iexplained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group ofresidents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laughabout this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in thegarbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking hishead. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Fridaylaugh. Take care, Peter from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Apr 26 15:41:33 2002 g3QKfW403549 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:41:32 -0500 Subject: RE: Tip top meets the butt TITBD for short, I've got to say the comments are making me laugh and my@#$hurt!LMAIP (Laughing My Ass In Pain!) You need to add a "Bloopers" section to therodmaking tips page. I've got along away to go to catch up to Nunley and others in rodmakingblunders, but I'll keep trying to catch up! Anyway I was planning on fishing tomorrow, neoprene might just be too tight! Have a great week end all! Pete -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt What do you think Peter? Want to be know as "Tip in the butt Dutchman" from now on? timothy troester wrote: todd, i think you should include this in your "tips"section on your web site. timothy --- Todd Talsma wrote: Jeff Schaeffer, where are you??? Can we re-open the"April Fool NunleyWannabe" award process back up or does this one haveto wait until nextyear? Peter, I really do feel for you, but.......I'mROTFLMAO, I'm sure with alot of other guys! Peter Van Schaack wrote: A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night a thin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack) slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in the fall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce I feel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stopped grabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later the wife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain is excruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metal ring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tip top. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes says she better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a piece of a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. The doctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. I explained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group of residents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laugh about this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in the garbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking his head. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Friday laugh. Take care, Peter --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Fri Apr 26 15:44:08 2002 g3QKi7404019 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:44:08 -0500 Subject: RE: Tip top meets the butt Never scarfed a rod before. I lost a few slivers in the tip removalprocedure, is that going to matter? Thanks, Pete -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt Peter,Which parts do you need the scarfing advice on ? I've heard of rods thatwere a pain in the you know where but this one takes the cake. Heal fast andget back out there fishing !Don from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Fri Apr 26 15:48:52 2002 g3QKmp404506 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:48:51 -0500 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:48:50 -0400 Subject: VIRUS CHECK: Hi List, I scan my computer to make sure I didn't have the virus and then went toNorton's to scan there just and case, my system is clear the virus seems tobe coming from the list or someone on the list. I suggest that everyonecheck to make sure, take care, Tim Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod MakerUpstream Custom Rods name="winmail.dat" filename="winmail.dat" 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 from rcristant@isgtransport.com Fri Apr 26 15:56:47 2002 g3QKul405242 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 15:56:47 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:messageSubject: RE: Tip top meets the butt Thread-Topic: Tip top meets the buttThread-Index: AcHtYt+BxFaUohWUQkKgvAOTTtJqsAAAdUDg g3QKul405243 In the immortal words of Johnny Cochran (kind of) "if the tip don't fit,you must re-split." Robert -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Tip top meets the butt TITBD for short, I've got to say the comments are making me laugh and my@#$hurt!LMAIP (Laughing My Ass In Pain!) You need to add a "Bloopers" section totherodmaking tips page. I've got along away to go to catch up to Nunley and others in rodmakingblunders, but I'll keep trying to catch up! Anyway I was planning on fishing tomorrow, neoprene might just be tootight! Have a great week end all! Pete -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt What do you think Peter? Want to be know as "Tip in the butt Dutchman" from now on? timothy troester wrote: todd, i think you should include this in your "tips"section on your web site. timothy --- Todd Talsma wrote: Jeff Schaeffer, where are you??? Can we re-open the"April Fool NunleyWannabe" award process back up or does this one haveto wait until nextyear? Peter, I really do feel for you, but.......I'mROTFLMAO, I'm sure with alot of other guys! Peter Van Schaack wrote: A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night a thin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack) slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in the fall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce I feel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stopped grabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later the wife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain is excruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metal ring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tip top. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes says she better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a piece of a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. The doctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. I explained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group of residents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laugh about this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in the garbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking his head. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Friday laugh. Take care, Peter --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from jsschaeffer@hotmail.com Fri Apr 26 16:46:07 2002 g3QLk6407970 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 16:46:06 -0500 Fri, 26 Apr 2002 14:45:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt FILETIME=[BF8850F0:01C1ED6B] I am sorry, but rules are rules. The contest is closed, however, thisincident may be submitted for next year's contest. Although I just ought tomake him his reel seat now and be done with it. Jeff from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Fri Apr 26 17:03:26 2002 g3QM3P408952 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:03:25 -0500 id g3QM3NH07064; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:03:23 +0900 (JST) id HAA02683; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:03:22 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Ferrule Plugs Hello Friends, I am using rubber cork at slide part of plugs which is poled out of a rubbercork ring which is sold at C&D Trading. (non commercial).Rubber cork can also be turned on lathe with byte if it can be centered withcore.It just fits to ferrule and never slipped out, nor tightened by abosobingmoisture likethe one made from leeway blank.. Max ========================================Max Satoh - Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod Makerhttp://maxrod.tripod.comMax Rod Craft - Online Shophttp://m-r- c.tripod.com======================================== from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Fri Apr 26 18:40:40 2002 g3QNeb411912 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:40:38 -0500 0000 Subject: Okey, Gracias. Okey. Gracias a todos por la informacion. Especialmente a ti Jojito por =la traducion. Que seria de mi vida sin ti. :-))))). Yo mas o menos voy =entendiendo las cosas. Mi cabeza de a poco se esta ablandando. :-))). =Anoche yo puse unas varillas en remojo y probare ma=F1ana, a ver como =resulta el metodo. En cuanto al liquido para te=F1ir el bronce no creo =que lo pueda conseguir en Argentina. En un pais que se da el lujo de =estar completamente parado durante nueve dias no se puede pretender =mucho. Desean ustedes a nuestros dirigentes politicos. Se los podemos =enviar gratuitamente. Esto es una verguenza. Una semana estuvieron =deliberando nuestros legisladores para hacer una ley que impide devolver =los ahorros que teniamos en el banco. Ahora nos daran unos bonos que =recien podremos cobrar en el 2010. Bueno dejando la rabia en otro lado. =Yo voy amirar en esos sitios para ver las imagenes de como desplazar los =nodos. Gracias a todos. Hasta siempre. Alberto. La avispa. Okey. Thanks to all for the information. Especially to you Jojito for =the traducion. That serious of my life without you. : -))))). Me but or =fewer go understanding the things. My head little by little you this =relenting. : -))). Last night I put some bars in soaking and I will =prove tomorrow, to see like it is the method. As for the I liquidate to =tint the brass I don't believe that it can get it in Argentina. In a =country that the luxury is given of being totally stopped during nine =days you cannot seek a lot. You want to our political leaders. We can =send them gratuitously. This is a shame. One week our legislators were =deliberating to make a law that prevents to return the savings that we =had in the bank. Now they will give us some funds that newly will be =able to get paid in the 2010. Good leaving the rage in another side. I =go amirar in those places to see the images of as displacing the nodes. = Okey. Gracias a todos por la informacion. Especialmente a ti Jojito = traducion. Que seria de mi vida sin ti. :-))))). Yo mas o menos voy = las cosas. Mi cabeza de a poco se esta ablandando. :-))). Anoche yo puse = varillas en remojo y probare ma=F1ana, a ver como resulta el metodo. En = liquido para te=F1ir el bronce no creo que lo pueda conseguir en = pais que se da el lujo de estar completamente parado durante nueve dias = puede pretender mucho. Desean ustedes a nuestros dirigentes politicos. = podemos enviar gratuitamente. Esto es una verguenza. Una semana = deliberando nuestros legisladores para hacer una ley que impide devolver = ahorros que teniamos en el banco. Ahora nos daran unos bonos que recien = cobrar en el 2010. Bueno dejando la rabia en otro lado. Yo voy amirar en = sitios para ver las imagenes de como desplazar los nodos. Gracias a = siempre. Alberto. La avispa.Okey. Thanks to all for the information. Especially to you Jojito for = traducion. That serious of my life without you. : -))))). Me but or = understanding the things. My head little by little you this relenting. : = Last night I put some bars in soaking and I will prove tomorrow, to see = is the method. As for the I liquidate to tint the brass I don't believe = can get it in Argentina. In a country that the luxury is given of being = stopped during nine days you cannot seek a lot. You want to our = legislators were deliberating to make a law that prevents to return the = that we had in the bank. Now they will give us some funds that newly = able to get paid in the 2010. Good leaving the rage in another side. I = in those places to see the images of as displacing the nodes. Thanks to = Until always. Alberto. The wasp. from sfario@hotmail.com Fri Apr 26 19:06:36 2002 g3R06Z412499 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:06:35 -0500 Fri, 26 Apr 2002 17:06:30 -0700 Subject: Test Email FILETIME=[62079C60:01C1ED7F] This is a test email---although I'm confirmed as a Rodmaker List =Subscriber, I'm not getting any list emails---I should get this one if =all is OK.---and never see it again if it's not.Bob A This is a test email---although I'm = Rodmaker List Subscriber, I'm not getting any list emails---I should get = one if all is OK.---and never see it again if it's not.Bob A from jojo@ipa.net Fri Apr 26 20:16:52 2002 g3R1Gp413643 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:16:51 -0500 helo=default) id 171GpV-0003Dk-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:16:50 -0400 Subject: Re: Nodeless Splices Hmmm, interesting thought, Bill. I think this might work for gluing the splices,though I'm not surehow one could clamp the strips together. I can see starting at one end withthe splice running fromheel to toe, adding the next piece on top of it, with the splice running toe toheel, etc., but Idon't know how these could be held together. I suppose that all six stripscould be arranged so thatthere was a splice offset in adjoining strips but opposites had the sameoffset, and clamp them intoplace, add the next group of strips, clamp them into place, etc. This way 1and 4, 2 and 5, 3 and 6would have their splices in the same spot, but 3 and 6 would be 4 inchesahead of 2 and 5 whichwould be another 4 inches ahead of 1 and 4, thus staggering the splices andallowing room to beclamped. I would say that maybe all the pieces could then be bound to thefixture in a normal mannerbut that might prove quite a challenge with all the clamps on the fixture. Itmight even be possibleto bind the first set of strips, add the next, bind, add the next, bind, etc. butI would think thestrips would slip against the pressure, and trying to keep six splices togetherall at once mightprove quite daunting, though I'm sure somebody on this list can figure it allout (masking tape?).Another problem would be to keep the adhesive of choice, and thus thestrips, from sticking to thefixture. I could treat the fixtures chemically to prevent this, and the personcould then add apaste wax on top of this for further insurance. While I think all of theproblems could be addressedwith using the fixtures for this purpose, why not just splice the strips intheir square,pre- roughed state? Wouldn't this be easier, then rough plane them, etc.? M-D Hi Don, I've never been able to get planed strips to line up either. When you heat treat first, do you find the strips need much straighteningonce you have taken thenodes out? Unless there happens to be a twist in the section I seldom do anystraightening beforeplaning nodeless sections. One idea you might try if you haven't is to put them in a jig with a 60 degreegroove, maybe one ofM-D's heat-treating jigs, and glue the splices. I would try to put them in withthe enamel on theinside to be sure that it is even and leave one of the pith sides out of line ifthe pieces aren'texactly the same size. M-D, do you think that would work? Bill Hi All, Try as I may I can't seem to get the splices to line-up right. Let me tell what I want to do in the following order. Not wanting to put anyheat on the glue joint,rough plan the strips a little oversize for the largest dimension of thesection, bind and heattreat. Cut the splice angle and glue the strips. I've tried using: all kinds of clamps, made clamps, made V blocks and forcedthe joint into the Vand plain old warp the joint. All to no avail. Everything slips slightly or at leastdoesn't line upright as far as I'm concerned. The only way I can get a good glue joint is heat treat the split chop sticks,splice and then planethe strips. To me, I lose any straightening, what little there may be, duringthe heat treatingdoing it this way. Any ideas ? TIA, Don from sfario@hotmail.com Fri Apr 26 20:53:00 2002 g3R1r0414464 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 20:53:00 -0500 Fri, 26 Apr 2002 18:52:55 -0700 Subject: Re: Test Email FILETIME=[400AC0B0:01C1ED8E] Hi DennisThanks for the welcome--but my email did not come thru--but of course =your reply to my hot.mail address did. So, I'm responding with the =rodmakers address--which I should see if everything is working---I ="unsubscribed" the "resubscribed" again so let's hope.RegardsBob A Subject: RE: Test Email Hi Bob, It (your message) came through OK. Things are a little slow on the =list lately. The season's opening in a lot of states these days. If =you're new to the list, welcome! This is a great group of makers that =can teach you a lot. If you're a veteran rodmaker, see the previous = Most of all, have fun! Dennis Haftel, relative newbie rodmaker.-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:06 PM Subject: Test Email This is a test email---although I'm confirmed as a Rodmaker List =Subscriber, I'm not getting any list emails---I should get this one if =all is OK.---and never see it again if it's not.Bob A Hi DennisThanks for the welcome--but my email= responding with the rodmakers address--which I should see if everything = hope.RegardsBob A ----- Original Message ----- Haftel Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 = PMSubject: RE: Test Email Bob, of all, have fun! Dennis Haftel, relative newbierodmaker. AmundsonSent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:06 = EmailThis is a test email---although I'm = as a Rodmaker List Subscriber, I'm not getting any list emails---I = not. A from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 26 21:04:33 2002 g3R24X414889 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:04:33 -0500 g3R24Ntx012583 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:04:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt Robert my good man, Jeez Louise! Now there's a category we can have Todd put up on the tips site.... "Extreme Rodmaking" - Founded by Bob Nunley, Contributors - Peter Van Schaack, et al.... Mark At 02:03 PM 4/26/02 -0500, you wrote: Peter,Personally, I'm proud that you remained calm enough to realize that youneeded that broken section to repair the rod... there ARE priorities inlife, ya know!Welcome to EXTREME RODMAKING!!! Maybe ESPN will do a special on us oneday! LOLOh, and thanks for the laugh... I really needed it today! Later,Bob Subject: Tip top meets the buttDoc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws inthe garbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking his head. from jojo@ipa.net Fri Apr 26 21:12:09 2002 g3R2C8415204 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:12:09 -0500 helo=default) id 171Hgy-0004b1-00; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:12:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Test Email Bob, Your post came through the Listserver, both times. I am responding to =your hotmail account, and to the List, so you should receive this twice. M-D Subject: Re: Test Email Hi DennisThanks for the welcome--but my email did not come thru--but of course =your reply to my hot.mail address did. So, I'm responding with the =rodmakers address--which I should see if everything is working---I ="unsubscribed" the "resubscribed" again so let's hope.RegardsBob A Subject: RE: Test Email Hi Bob, It (your message) came through OK. Things are a little slow on the =list lately. The season's opening in a lot of states these days. If =you're new to the list, welcome! This is a great group of makers that =can teach you a lot. If you're a veteran rodmaker, see the previous = Most of all, have fun! Dennis Haftel, relative newbie rodmaker.-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu = Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:06 PM Subject: Test Email This is a test email---although I'm confirmed as a Rodmaker List =Subscriber, I'm not getting any list emails---I should get this one if =all is OK.---and never see it again if it's not.Bob A Bob, Your post camethrough = Listserver, both times. I am responding to your hotmail account, and to = List, so you should receive this twice. M-D ----- Original Message ----- Amundson Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: Test Email Hi DennisThanks for the welcome--but my email= responding with the rodmakers address--which I should see if = hope.RegardsBob A ----- Original Message ----- Haftel Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 = PMSubject: RE: Test Email Bob, Most of all, have fun! Dennis Haftel, relative newbie =rodmaker. AmundsonSent: Friday, April 26, 2002 8:06 = EmailThis is a test email---although = as a Rodmaker List Subscriber, I'm not getting any list emails---I = not. A from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Fri Apr 26 21:27:51 2002 g3R2Rp415682 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:27:51 -0500 (authenticated) for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 19:27:42 -0700 Subject: Birmingham, AL Hi Friends, Would any of you who live within say 50 milesof Birmingham, Alabamba, mind getting in touchwith me off-list? I've got a friend there whoneeds a little help and I would like to ask you avery small favor.... Thanks in advance,Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Apr 26 21:35:10 2002 g3R2Z9416031 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 21:35:09 -0500 (216.160.237.84) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429Subject: Cork Hi all, Just a quick update on cork orders. I got a box of 1/2" cork (950 pieces,the expensive stuff) from Chesapeake yesterday. I am divvying it up tonightand will send it via USPS tomorrow. It is packaged in bags of 100 pieces,so if I can, I'll just ship them that way so no one wonders if I sorted itin any way. After I get it all out, I'll follow up with the individuals whorequested cork to let them know what the total price will be. I haven't heard back from Pace yet. When I placed the order a couple ofweeks ago, I was told that they would receive the cork from Portugal in twoto three weeks. Then they would box it up and send it my way. Sorry forthe delay. Please feel free to contact me if you have any questions/concerns. Jason Swan(435) 752-8676 from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Apr 26 22:13:15 2002 g3R3DF416646 for ; Fri, 26 Apr 2002 22:13:15 -0500 (216.160.237.84) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429Subject: Chesapeake cork It looks like I have 45 extra Chesapeake 1/2" cork rings if anyone isinterested. Very nice cork. The best I've seen. $1.55 per ring (that isStreett's volume discount) plus shipping. Or, if you have an order pending,let me know and I'll add it before it goes out tomorrow. Thanks, Jason from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Apr 27 00:22:16 2002 g3R5ME418589 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 00:22:14 - Subject: Re: Nodeless Splices Try holding the scarfs together and binding with thread. Thread provides more than enough pressure. When the glue's cured just plane the thread off. Tony At 10:41 AM 4/26/02 -0700, Don Schneider wrote: Hi All, Try as I may I can't seem to get the splices to line-up right. Let me tell what I want to do in the following order. Not wanting to put any heat on the glue joint, rough plan the strips a little oversize for the largest dimension of the section, bind and heat treat. Cut the splice angle and glue the strips. I've tried using: all kinds of clamps, made clamps, made V blocks and forced the joint into the V and plain old warp the joint. All to no avail. Everything slips slightly or at least doesn't line up right as far as I'm concerned. The only way I can get a good glue joint is heat treat the split chop sticks, splice and then plane the strips. To me, I lose any straightening, what little there may be, during the heat treating doing it this way. Any ideas ? TIA, Don /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Apr 27 02:25:14 2002 g3R7PD420261 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 02:25:13 - Subject: Re: Nodeless Splices Sorry Don, I mis read the question. Before splitting the section of bamboo into chopsticks draw a line around the circumference of the butt end so you know which way is up.Heat treating the chop sticks then sort them into groups that allow the assembled chopsticks to be the required length allowing for length lost in each scarf.You'll notice the chopsticks will all vary in width so use this to your advantage by making the assembly taper by using the thickest for the butt end and narrowest for the tip end.Planne the scarfs with a scarfing block. I use 1:22 ratio for my scarfing angle. A freshly planed face is the best face to make a scarf with.Glue both sides of the scarf, allow the glue to sit a min or so then hold the faces together making the spline straight by adjusting the way the chopsticks are glued and bind with thread.Allow the glue to cure and plane the thread off when you plane the spline at the roughing stage.The biggest problem you can have with nodeless is heat straightening. Try like hell to avoid needing to do this because the node will pop if you need to heat a node to straighten a section with the node in the middle of that section.I had best results by using shell epon for the scarf.Hide glue would work too for that reason but so far I haven't tried it though I know some people do and it works for them. Tony At 10:41 AM 4/26/02 -0700, Don Schneider wrote: Hi All, Try as I may I can't seem to get the splices to line-up right. Let me tell what I want to do in the following order. Not wanting to put any heat on the glue joint, rough plan the strips a little oversize for the largest dimension of the section, bind and heat treat. Cut the splice angle and glue the strips. I've tried using: all kinds of clamps, made clamps, made V blocks and forced the joint into the V and plain old warp the joint. All to no avail. Everything slips slightly or at least doesn't line up right as far as I'm concerned. The only way I can get a good glue joint is heat treat the split chop sticks, splice and then plane the strips. To me, I lose any straightening, what little there may be, during the heat treating doing it this way. Any ideas ? TIA, Don /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Apr 27 02:37:13 2002 g3R7bC420648 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 02:37:12 - "Rod Makers \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt You and Bob Nunley are twins separated at birth right? Tony At 02:45 PM 4/26/02 -0400, Peter Van Schaack wrote: A little humor! How my day started - Weather is cold this morning, from rain last night athin layer of ice covering just about everything.Head out the door at 6:30 am two piece 3wt in hand (no tube or rod sack)slipped on the top step of my porch, eight steps in all, somewhere in thefall tip gets broken above the top guide, somewhere around fifth bounce Ifeel a sharp stabbing pain in left butt cheek. After the falling stoppedgrabbed the butt to find blood and a sharp object. Many curses later thewife is at the top step, asks if I'm OK, said yes, but the butt pain isexcruciating. I hobble back into the house and she takes a look and sees a little metalring poking out of my butt cheek, I see missing from the flyrod, the tiptop. After she realizes what it is and stops laughing and making jokes saysshe better take me to the ER. I get to the ER the triage nurse asks what's wrong? I reply, I have a pieceof a flyrod stuck in my ass! Coffee comes out her nose in laughter. Thedoctor takes a look and chuckles. X-rays are taken to check for damage. Iexplained what happened, now he has to show my ass to the new group ofresidents that just punched in, about ten of them, luckily I'm able to laughabout this. Doc pulls the 4" tip piece from my butt cheek and throws in thegarbage, I say "I need that to fix the rod", he hands it to me shaking hishead. Couple of stitches and I'm on my way home. Need some scarfing advice! Hope you all have had a better day than me! Thought you all needed a Fridaylaugh. Take care, Peter /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from tapanisalmi@hotmail.com Sat Apr 27 04:59:34 2002 g3R9xX421906 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 04:59:33 - Sat, 27 Apr 2002 02:59:28 -0700 Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:59:27 GMT Subject: re: trying out tapers FILETIME=[37F4F500:01C1EDD2] Hi Harry,if you would like easily to try tapers and re-taper your rod you could try an inside-out structure with all the strips turned 60 degrees to have the power fibres inside the rod as a star-like form. Now you can plane or sand the rod to modify the taper without affecting the power fibres! I have made a comparison last winter of two rods build with traditional and inside-out way (glued with epoxy) and they are acting very, very similarly. I have found thereafter that the inside-out structure has been the traditional Japanese way to build rods also used by Mr Yukihiro Yoshida (http://homepage1.nifty.com/yukihiro-rod/spec.html)Tapani Salmi ----- Alkuper€inen viesti -----L€hett€j€: "Harry Boyd" Vastaanottaja: "Rodmakers" L€hetetty: 26. huhtikuuta 2002 7:28Aihe: Trying out tapers Folks, Was wondering about something. Those of youwho design your own tapers, how do you try themout? You can do only so much with a computer anda pile of graph paper. There comes a time whenyou have to make shavings. Once you get a new blank built, do you have aremovable handle assembly of some sort? Do youtape guides on and build up a duct tape grip?Electric tape for a reel seat? What do you do totry out your rods before going to all the troubleof finishing them out? I know I've finished out my share of rods thatwill never see the light of day. Stripped thecomponents off and used them on different rods.Any better ideas? Harry -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from mrmac@tcimet.net Sat Apr 27 06:03:14 2002 g3RB3E422936 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 06:03:14 - Sat, 27 Apr 2002 07:04:16 -0400 Subject: Re: trying out tapers Tapani, do you build the star configuration just for experimenting withtapers, or do you do all of your rods that way? Do you have a specialtechnique to assure removing material equally from each side when you makean adjustment? Sounds like an interesting approach, and the idea that onecould make some *serious* adjustments to the taper on the finished rodwouldseem to be great for taper development. Best regards, mac ----- Original Message ----- Subject: re: trying out tapers Hi Harry,if you would like easily to try tapers and re-taper your rod you could tryan inside-out structure with all the strips turned 60 degrees to have thepower fibres inside the rod as a star-like form. Now you can plane or sandthe rod to modify the taper without affecting the power fibres! I have made a comparison last winter of two rods build with traditional and inside-outway (glued with epoxy) and they are acting very, very similarly. from cw@vanion.com Sat Apr 27 10:44:21 2002 g3RFiK427938 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:44:20 - for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 09:49:18 - Subject: Looking for bags Hi, I'm trying to find some good rod bags at a reasonable price. Thought =I'd get some imfo from you guys. I've tried REC, and their service has =been terrible. Any references appreciated.Thanks in advance, Chad Hi, I'm trying to find some goodrod = reasonable price. Thought I'd get some imfo from you guys. I've tried = their service has been terrible. Any references =appreciated. Chad from ttalsma@macatawa.org Sat Apr 27 10:58:30 2002 g3RFwS428345 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 10:58:28 - "Rod Makers (E-mail)" Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt Jeff, Was that a "reel seat" or his "real seat." Never heard of anyonereplacing a butt cheek before. Still rolling on the floor in Zeeland. Jeff Schaeffer wrote: I am sorry, but rules are rules. The contest is closed, however, thisincident may be submitted for next year's contest. Although I justought tomake him his reel seat now and be done with it. Jeff --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Rodmaking Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Rodmaking Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/index.htmgenealogy home page: Under Construction from ttalsma@macatawa.org Sat Apr 27 11:04:44 2002 g3RG4h428642 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:04:43 - "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt Yeah, but the only problem is that to get the right effect, we wouldHAVE to have pictures. Now, with all respect to Peter, I don't think alot of people would like to be looking at a picture of his butt cheek(his wife excluded of course). I'll bet he didn't even think of takinga picture before, during or after to document this correctly. I guessthe only thing we can ask for is for him to recreate the events, makingsure to document fully with photos. What say you Pete? Can you do that for us? HE HE HE Claude Freaner wrote: !LMAIP (Laughing My Ass In Pain!) You need to add a "Bloopers" section to the rodmaking tips page. Good idea! Add a "Bloopers" button to the web site. Claude --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Rodmaking Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Rodmaking Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/index.htmgenealogy home page: Under Construction from tjtrodmaker@yahoo.com Sat Apr 27 11:48:57 2002 g3RGmu429505 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:48:56 -0500 27 Apr 2002 09:48:52 PDT Subject: Re: Looking for bags chad, i am thinking of selling rod bags. what do youthink would be a reasonable price and what sort offratures are you looking for. or anyone what designfeatures do you like on rod socks? timothy --- chad wigham wrote: Hi, I'm trying to find some good rod bags at areasonable price. Thought I'd get some imfo from youguys. I've tried REC, and their service has beenterrible. Any references appreciated.Thanks in advance, Chad ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from rodsupstream@exploremaine.com Sat Apr 27 12:48:36 2002 g3RHmZ400786 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:48:35 - for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:48:32 -0400 Subject: RE: Looking for bags Hi Chad, We do rod bags here, Standard and reproduction of F.E. Thomas bag. We alsodo monogramming with clients initials and business logo or info. Dependingon what you want we can quote you a price on one or as many as you want.Please e-mail me of list so we can abide by the rules. Take care, Tim. Upstream Always, Tim DoughtyRod MakerUpstream Custom Rods -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Looking for bags chad, i am thinking of selling rod bags. what do youthink would be a reasonable price and what sort offratures are you looking for. or anyone what designfeatures do you like on rod socks? timothy --- chad wigham wrote: Hi, I'm trying to find some good rod bags at areasonable price. Thought I'd get some imfo from youguys. I've tried REC, and their service has beenterrible. Any references appreciated.Thanks in advance, Chad ====="Gooda' mornin', mister bear!" ...Ride, boldly ride,"The shade replied, -"If you seek for Eldorado!" -- E.A.Poe __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from jvswan@earthlink.net Sat Apr 27 13:13:42 2002 g3RIDf401413 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:13:41 - (216.160.237.84) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429Subject: Re: Looking for bags understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3102753311_5748298 My wife makes all my bags. Really great and for about $5 worth of material.They are not too hard if you want to put in the time. Jason On 4/27/02 10:46 AM, "chad wigham" wrote: Hi, I'm trying to find some good rod bags at a reasonable price. Thought I'dget some imfo from you guys. I've tried REC, and their service has beenterrible. Any references appreciated.Thanks in advance, Chad --B_3102753311_5748298 Re: Looking for bags and for = i=n the time. Jason wrote: Hi, I'mtrying to fi=nd some good rod bags at a reasonable price. Thought I'd get some imfo from=you guys. I've tried REC, and their service has been terrible. Any reference=s appreciated. Sent using the Entourage X Test Drive. --B_3102753311_5748298-- from channer@frontier.net Sat Apr 27 13:20:19 2002 g3RIKJ401788 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:20:19 - Subject: Re: Looking for bags Chad;I don't understand how you can have had terrible service from REC, theyhave been great for me. I buy almost everything I use except the bambooand thread from them and they alwys get my orders out promptly. Trye-mailing Dan Lanier direct at custserv@reccomponents.com.John chad wigham wrote: Hi, I'm trying to find some good rod bags at a reasonable price.Thought I'd get some imfo from you guys. I've tried REC, and theirservice has been terrible. Any references appreciated.Thanks in advance, Chad from cw@vanion.com Sat Apr 27 13:31:43 2002 g3RIVh402192 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:31:43 - for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 12:36:51 - Subject: Looking for bags Thanks for the responses. I hope to start making my own at somepoint, =but for now just need a couple. My experience with REC has been not =getting what I ordered, and waiting a month to get it corrected. Have =dealt with two reps, and both are professional about it, but...Thanks again, Chad Thanks for the responses. I hopeto = my own at somepoint, but for now just need a couple. My experience with = been not getting what I ordered, and waiting a month to get it = dealt with two reps, and both are professional about it, =but... Chad from gjm80301@yahoo.com Sat Apr 27 13:34:02 2002 g3RIY1402454 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 13:34:01 - Sat, 27 Apr 2002 11:33:57 PDT Subject: RE: Silk Weights If you look in the archives, I posted almost exactlythe same experiment in 1999. The thread was titled"silk thread sizing experiment" or something likethat. Archives good. Jerry --- "Douglas P. Easton" wrote: At 07:09 AM 4/23/2002 -0400, Bob Maulucci wrote: Hi All,I just happened to copy and stow away Ricks data. Size 50 is roughly equivalent to Size A.I did some tests several months ago. I marked offabout 1/2" on a woodendowel and counted the number of revolutions it tookwith each size of thread.I repeated the test with different spools of thread,but the results werealmost exactly the same. Here's what I found:Silk Wraps/0.5" IndexGossamer 108 0.67YLI #100 (3/0) 103 0.70Naples 87 0.83Rice 00 (old stock) 84 0.86Belding Corticelli A 78 0.92Tire #50 75 0.96YLI #50 72 1.00Janome #50 72 1.00Gudebrod 00 (modern) 72 1.00 --Rich "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:word">Rick Margiotta had it all figured out. I think I saw it on Clark Davis's website.Bob-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Tim Watson Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2002 6:24 AM Subject: Silk Weights Anyone out there got a comparison between silk weights? There's 50's, A's, 0's and over here, denier numbers. The web hasn't shown anything up so I guess there's someone clever amongst you lot who has worked it out!!ThanksTim. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from jvswan@earthlink.net Sat Apr 27 14:46:27 2002 g3RJkQ403870 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 14:46:26 - (216.160.237.84) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429Subject: Jerry Madigan Can you get in touch with me about your cork order? Your emails seem to bebouncing. Thanks, Jason(435) 752-8676 from caneman@clnk.com Sat Apr 27 15:05:42 2002 g3RK5f404527 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:05:41 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Sat, 27 Apr 2002 15:03:18 -0500 Subject: Knurling tools Anyone know where I can buy a Scissors or Straddle type knurling tool holderthat has a 1/2" square shank? Thanks,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com from cdn@ticon.net Sat Apr 27 16:31:11 2002 g3RLV9406150 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:31:10 - (66.181.137.19) Subject: knurling tools Bob, try msc industrial at mscdirect.com - they list both scissorand clamp type with 1/2 inch shank in their catalog. Ned from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Sat Apr 27 16:57:14 2002 g3RLvC407714 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 16:57:12 - id g3RLvBH02464; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:57:11 +0900 (JST) id GAA15638; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 06:57:09 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: trying out tapers Oyaho gozaimasu, Friends, I remembered that I once looked at Yoshihiro's round rod somewhere. Itsaction was very nice. I haven't known if its a traditional way of our rodmaking.In most cases, our traditon is refferred to making a connection rod which ismade from a thin, round, hollow, non-split cane and it was mainly not for flyfishing. Where, makers surely made a tip section, only a tip section, byshaving outside of a glued strips made of the teeth of whale or glued stripsof madake, or just by shaving one strip of thick madake (in oldest days).So, shaving outside is not necessarily the traditional way of Japanese rodmaking. Our fly rod history is short, probably it started around 1930's orso, I guess. Inside-out structure of hex rod may be good to adjust a taper from outsidethough it might be estheticcally declined. Most of our traditional tipsections are coated with black urushi or Kashu (artificial urushi) to hideits striped surface. As for outside shaving method of hexagonal blank, I invented a tool socalled, Para-grinder, which will sand off two side (up and down) at a time.I used to use it when I oversized the taper due to glue thickness ormis-adjustment of brade setting of my grooved plane. The structure of Para-grinder is simple. It holds a pair of sand papers atupper portion and at bottom, and they are tightened by coil springs throughtwolong bolts. I move a straightened glued blank between the sandpapers bypushing and pulling. It can control a taper by 0.0004" to 0.004" (orwhatever) based on the number of push & pull. Ten push&pull for 0.0004", As para-grinder can sand the edge line of each flat to straight, I am mainlyuse it now just for polishing purpose (to remove file's scratch, etc.) ofthe surface of a blank prior to varnishing. method, there is such a way by holding a sand paper by palm in round shape(like a pipe) and move it along with the blank. It's a traditional way.Or, we may be able to turn or file it on lathe. you like. Max Tapani, do you build the star configuration just for experimenting withtapers, or do you do all of your rods that way? Do you have a specialtechnique to assure removing material equally from each side when youmakean adjustment? Sounds like an interesting approach, and the idea that onecould make some *serious* adjustments to the taper on the finished rod would seem to be great for taper development. Best regards, mac ----- Original Message -----From: "Tapani Salmi" Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 5:59 AMSubject: re: trying out tapers Hi Harry,if you would like easily to try tapers and re-taper your rod you could try an inside-out structure with all the strips turned 60 degrees to have the power fibres inside the rod as a star-like form. Now you can plane or sand the rod to modify the taper without affecting the power fibres! I have made a comparison last winter of two rods build with traditional and inside-out way (glued with epoxy) and they are acting very, very similarly. from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Sat Apr 27 17:54:54 2002 g3RMsq408722 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 17:54:52 - 0000 Subject: Hola. Hola a todos. Yo esta ma=F1ana retire del agua las varillas que tenia en =remojo, y las miraba con desconfianza. Les aplique calor con una pistola =de aire caliente, marca Boch. Entonces pude apreciar lo facil que es =enderezar las varillas y los nudos. En muy poco tiempo yo enderece las =doce varillas de una ca=F1a de 7=B46" que estoy preparando. Yo a la =tarde las cepille y ya las tengo atadas para templarlas ma=F1ana por la =tarde. Despues debere darles el cepillado final en el planing form. =Bueno muchachos, les saludo a todos . Yo agradesco las atenciones y si =en algo puedo ser de utilidad por favor haganmelo saber . Hasta siempre. =Alberto. La avispa. Hello to all. Me this morning it moves away of the water the bars that =taenia in soaking, and he/she looked at them with distrust. Apply them =heat with a hot-air gun, Boch marks. Then I could appreciate the easy =thing that it is to straighten the bars and the knots. In very little =time I straighten the twelve bars of a cane of 7=B46" that am preparing. =I an afternoon brush them and I already have them tied to temper them =tomorrow afternoon. Then I will give them the final brushing in the =planing form. Good boys, I greet all. Me agradesco the attentions and if =in something I please can being of utility makes it to me to know. Until = Hola a todos. Yo esta ma=F1ana retire del agua las varillas que tenia = remojo, y las miraba con desconfianza. Les aplique calor con una pistola = caliente, marca Boch. Entonces pude apreciar lo facil que es enderezar = varillas y los nudos. En muy poco tiempo yo enderece las doce varillas = ca=F1a de 7=B46" que estoy preparando. Yo a la tarde las cepille y ya = atadas para templarlas ma=F1ana por la tarde. Despues debere darles el = final en el planing form. Bueno muchachos, les saludo a todos . Yo = atenciones y si en algo puedo ser de utilidad por favor haganmelo saber = siempre. Alberto. La avispa.Hello to all. Me this morning it moves away of the water the bars = in soaking, and he/she looked at them with distrust. Apply them heat = hot-air gun, Boch marks. Then I could appreciate the easy thing that it = straighten the bars and the knots. In very little time I straighten the = bars of a cane of 7=B46" that am preparing. I an afternoon brush them = already have them tied to temper them tomorrow afternoon. Then I will = the final brushing in the planing form. Good boys, I greet all. Me = attentions and if in something I please can being of utility makes it to = know. Until always. Alberto. The wasp. from dnhayashida@yahoo.com Sat Apr 27 18:07:08 2002 g3RN77409090 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 18:07:07 - 27 Apr 2002 16:07:07 PDT Subject: Making my own ferrules - Step 1 I decided to begin making my own ferrules, mainlybecause I would like to try different materials anddifferent designs. I really like the look of bronzeferrules, but they aren't readily available. So, myfirst step - buying a metal lathe. After reading theposts on this list,and researching on the internet, Idecided to start off with a 7 x 12. HarborFreight.comhas a 7 x 10 and a 8 x 12. I went to a HF store tolook at the 8 x 12, but they don't have them - website only, and they are $500.00. So, looking throughall the choices on littlemachineshop.com, I decided ongetting a 7 x 12 from Homier.com. It's only $300.00.Just about everyone else sells them for around$500.00. Why Homier sells them so cheap I can't figureout - it's the same machine made by the same companyin China as everyone else's. Shipping to my address is$63.00, so I'm still way under $500. When it arrivesI'll let everyone know what it looks like. Then on tothe next step - what cutting tools, reamers, drills,etc. I need to get. Gee... this is just like startingup in rodmaking again....Darryl Hayashida __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from richjez@enteract.com Sat Apr 27 20:35:37 2002 g3S1Zb411335 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 20:35:37 - Subject: RE: Tip top meets the butt It depends where the slivers are. Rich Jezioro At 03:46 PM 4/26/2002, Peter Van Schaack wrote: Never scarfed a rod before. I lost a few slivers in the tip removalprocedure, is that going to matter? Thanks, Pete -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, April 26, 2002 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt Peter,Which parts do you need the scarfing advice on ? I've heard of rods thatwere a pain in the you know where but this one takes the cake. Heal fastandget back out there fishing !Don from dnhayashida@yahoo.com Sat Apr 27 21:20:53 2002 g3S2Kr412281 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 21:20:53 - 27 Apr 2002 19:20:52 PDT Subject: Ferrule Design What is the advantage to the "spigot" type ferrule yousee on graphite rods?Darryl Hayashida __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from dongreife@hotmail.com Sat Apr 27 21:50:26 2002 g3S2oP413029 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 21:50:25 - Sat, 27 Apr 2002 19:50:20 -0700 HTTP; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 02:50:19 GMT Subject: Re: Nodeless Splices FILETIME=[6F766B20:01C1EE5F] Don,,I've had a similar problem with alignment of scarf joints. Some ofthe problems came as a result of twisting of the denoded cane tubebeing dried in the kitchen oven at a low heat. This condidion also resulted in between enamel and pith. This then made squaring up the chopstick sidesreally difficult. My next(?) nodeless will be built as follows: 1) Spilt the strips from the culm just the way it came in the mailing tube. 2) Soak the stripsovernight. 3) Cut the nodes off the strips, leaving the chopsticks. 4) Square alternating left/right patern. 6) Allow the chop sticks to dry about threedays. 7)Glue up goes like this: spread news paper on your glue table. Selectthe chopsticks you wish for the first 'strip'and make 'witness marks on themwhere each is to join the next.with a lead pencil. Brush URAC on bothsurfaces o!f the first pair of chopsticks to be joined. Place them enamel side down onthe news paper and press down firmly and press them together near thewitness marks. Place the first of four (4) pony clamps on the joint. Turn theglued joint over so that you can see the 'glue line' and adjust the joint so thatno glue line is visable. Set the joined pair of chopsticks aside to dry. Join thenext pair of sticks. The next day, join the four sticks.....The width/thicknessof each chopstick that is joined will be a little different and will cause an to cure,soak the strips over night ,preliminary plane the strips, bind, heattreat, glue up the strips and bind.(etc). May Work,,May Schneider" , a line up. that allow length to thickest for the my scarf with. so then the way plane the if middle haven't tried right. wanting oversize treat. Cut the V blocks All to no as far the split any it this Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from dannyt@frisurf.no Sat Apr 27 22:40:14 2002 g3S3eD414812 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 22:40:13 - User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Subject: Silk line g3S3eE414813 Hi, Anyone with experience with the two different silk line brand available onthe marked..?I have one of each, and I like the Ph**** much more than the Th****** one.It seams like the "coating" on the latter breaks more easily..... Also, does You leave the full 6' level line after the taper, or do You cutit down....? danny'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜.>.˜'ü'˜.. ,....˜'ü'˜..>>.˜'ü'˜..˜'ü'˜...>.˜'ü'˜.. ,. Danny Twang94 Bayswater ave.North Shore, AucklandNew Zealand +64 9 445 8949 dannyt@frisurf.nodanny@twang.no from saweiss@flash.net Sat Apr 27 23:39:01 2002 g3S4d0415880 for ; Sat, 27 Apr 2002 23:39:00 - g3S4cw077760 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 00:38:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Looking for bags I sew my own. Jack Howell has good instructions in his book. Golden =Witch sells bags but I haven't tried them.Steve Hi, I'm trying to find some good rod bags at a reasonable price. Thought =I'd get some imfo from you guys. I've tried REC, and their service has =been terrible. Any references appreciated.Thanks in advance, Chad I sew my own. Jack Howell has good instructions in his book. Golden = sells bags but I haven't tried them.Steve Hi, I'm trying to find some goodrod = reasonable price. Thought I'd get some imfo from you guys. I've tried = their service has been terrible. Any references =appreciated. Chad from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sun Apr 28 01:03:45 2002 g3S63j418486 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 01:03:45 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Looking for bags I sell custom rod bags off my sight. Thanks Davewww.davesrods.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven A. Weiss Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:38 PMSubject: Re: Looking for bags I sew my own. Jack Howell has good instructions in his book. Golden Witchsells bags but I haven't tried them.Steve Hi, I'm trying to find some good rod bags at a reasonable price. Thought I'dget some imfo from you guys. I've tried REC, and their service has beenterrible. Any references appreciated.Thanks in advance, Chad www.davesrods.com ----- Original Message ----- From: Steven A. Weiss Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2002 11:38 PMSubject: Re: Looking for bags I sew my own. Jack Howell has good instructions in his book. GoldenWitch sells bags but I haven't tried them.Steve Hi, I'm trying to find some good rodbags at a reasonable price. Thought I'd get some imfo from you guys. I've tried REC,and their service has been terrible. Any referencesappreciated. Chad from Jkvseafood@aol.com Sun Apr 28 07:47:29 2002 g3SClS421612 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 07:47:28 - Subject: Re: Tip top meets the butt pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us is it to late to enter this in that contest about rod related misadventures? john from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sun Apr 28 08:11:52 2002 g3SDBp422336 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:11:51 - g3SDBhtx025079 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:11:44 - Subject: Re: Making my own ferrules - Step 1 Darryl, The 7 x 12 by Homier is a nice little lathe. When you get it, make sure you head over to Varmint Al's web site, for all the tricks to tuning the lathe to make it work real nice. You've been to the Little Machine Shop, so I won't add much other than to say Chris Woods is a great guy to do business with. If he doesn't carry it, he'll try to see if he can get it. I've had my 7 x 12 for a couple of months now, got it all tuned up and ready to go. I've so far turned three DG bases, all the pulleys for my binder, and a couple of other little knick knacks for Momma. I like it a lot. Oh yeah, there's a 7 x 10 mailing list that not only covers the 7 x 10, but pretty much all of the mini machinery, even mini mills, small foundries and so on. The list is a lot like ours, very friendly, tons of information, and trolling is the barest minimum. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/7x10minilathe/, and you can subscribe. There's also the mlathemods group, which has little traffic, but a lot of stuff in the archives on mods to the lathe. It's an active group, but most of the postings are for stuff that gets posted to the groups archives. It's at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlathemods/. Mark At 04:07 PM 4/27/02 -0700, you wrote: I decided to begin making my own ferrules, mainlybecause I would like to try different materials anddifferent designs. I really like the look of bronzeferrules, but they aren't readily available. So, myfirst step - buying a metal lathe. After reading theposts on this list,and researching on the internet, Idecided to start off with a 7 x 12. HarborFreight.comhas a 7 x 10 and a 8 x 12. I went to a HF store tolook at the 8 x 12, but they don't have them - website only, and they are $500.00. So, looking throughall the choices on littlemachineshop.com, I decided ongetting a 7 x 12 from Homier.com. It's only $300.00.Just about everyone else sells them for around$500.00. Why Homier sells them so cheap I can't figureout - it's the same machine made by the same companyin China as everyone else's. Shipping to my address is$63.00, so I'm still way under $500. When it arrivesI'll let everyone know what it looks like. Then on tothe next step - what cutting tools, reamers, drills,etc. I need to get. Gee... this is just like startingup in rodmaking again....Darryl Hayashida __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from harms1@pa.net Sun Apr 28 08:39:18 2002 g3SDdI423077 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:39:18 - Subject: Re: Ferrule Design Daryll, Certainly, there's no structural advantage. The spigot style saves a littleweight and provides a slimmer profile only. Perhaps a properly designedgraphite rod can withstand such reduced dimensions at the ferrule stationbut, except for the old "step-down" ferrule, I can't iamgine an equivalent Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Ferrule Design What is the advantage to the "spigot" type ferrule yousee on graphite rods?Darryl Hayashida __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Apr 28 08:56:58 2002 g3SDuv423546 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 08:56:57 - helo=excalibur.ix.netcom.com) id 171pA8-0008Je-00; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:56:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Making my own ferrules - Step 1 --=======67EF479D======= ascii; format=flowed Also check out Frank Hoose's page at www.mini-lathe.com for all the mods, information and links. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 09:13 AM 4/28/02 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote: Darryl, The 7 x 12 by Homier is a nice little lathe. When you get it, make sure you head over to Varmint Al's web site, for all the tricks to tuning the lathe to make it work real nice. You've been to the Little Machine Shop, so I won't add much other than to say Chris Woods is a great guy to do business with. If he doesn't carry it, he'll try to see if he can get it. I've had my 7 x 12 for a couple of months now, got it all tuned up and ready to go. I've so far turned three DG bases, all the pulleys for my binder, and a couple of other little knick knacks for Momma. I like it a lot. Oh yeah, there's a 7 x 10 mailing list that not only covers the 7 x 10, but pretty much all of the mini machinery, even mini mills, small foundries and so on. The list is a lot like ours, very friendly, tons of information, and trolling is the barest minimum. Go to http://groups.yahoo.com/group/7x10minilathe/, and you can subscribe. There's also the mlathemods group, which has little traffic, but a lot of stuff in the archives on mods to the lathe. It's an active group, but most of the postings are for stuff that gets posted to the groups archives. It's at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mlathemods/. Mark At 04:07 PM 4/27/02 -0700, you wrote: I decided to begin making my own ferrules, mainlybecause I would like to try different materials anddifferent designs. I really like the look of bronzeferrules, but they aren't readily available. So, myfirst step - buying a metal lathe. After reading theposts on this list,and researching on the internet, Idecided to start off with a 7 x 12. HarborFreight.comhas a 7 x 10 and a 8 x 12. I went to a HF store tolook at the 8 x 12, but they don't have them - website only, and they are $500.00. So, looking throughall the choices on littlemachineshop.com, I decided ongetting a 7 x 12 from Homier.com. It's only $300.00.Just about everyone else sells them for around$500.00. Why Homier sells them so cheap I can't figureout - it's the same machine made by the same companyin China as everyone else's. Shipping to my address is$63.00, so I'm still way under $500. When it arrivesI'll let everyone know what it looks like. Then on tothe next step - what cutting tools, reamers, drills,etc. I need to get. Gee... this is just like startingup in rodmaking again....Darryl Hayashida __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com ---Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/02 --=======67EF479D======= ok-2553727D ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/02 --=======67EF479D=======-- from bob@downandacross.com Sun Apr 28 09:50:39 2002 g3SEoc424343 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 09:50:38 - 28 Apr 2002 10:17:07 -0400 Subject: Cheap flies Could someone tell me what the link for the cheap flies posted a while backwas and if they were any good? A buddy is in serious need of filling his flyboxes, and I cannot tie enough as it is. I hate to send him to the localflyshop for $3 flies when they are probably stocking the $3 a dozen fliesanyway.Thanks,Bob from Dkenney94@cs.com Sun Apr 28 10:07:26 2002 g3SF7Q424725 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 10:07:26 - for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:07:05 - Subject: Re: Looking for bags I would give REC another chance. I've had great service from them & they do make very nice bags at a good price. Most other makes look odd to me I would give REC anotherchance. I've had great service from them & they do make very nice bags from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Apr 28 11:23:21 2002 g3SGNL425822 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 11:23:21 - Subject: Re: Making my own ferrules - Step 1 Hi Darryl,When you get your lathe, check the run out of the chuck.If you want to make ferrules, you will want to keep it to .001 orless. If the chuck has a lot of run out, you may need to buy somecollets. If you are making your ferrules from tubing, you shouldn'tneed reamers. The inside diam. of the tubing should be fairlyclose to the 64th. dimension that you would need. You will haveto measure the inside diam. of the tubing, to know what diam. toturn your male slides to. The main reason you need accuracy in the lathe, is for turning your males. If your lathe doesn't hold close enoughtolerances, your male slide may be turned larger than you wouldwant. If it is accurate enough, you can turn the males down to within .001 of the final fit and have very little hand fitting to do. If they are too big, you will have to do a lot of hand fitting toget them to fit the females. This is where the accuracy comes in to play. If your lathe is within a few thousands of an inch, thefemales will be OK, because you are only turning down the outside of the ferrule. But, when turning down the outside of the males, you want to keep the tolerances close. I have an adjustable six jaw chuck in my South Bend lathe.I can hold to .0005" . But, this chuck and adapter cost me $1,200.I'm sure you don't want to spend that much. I checked Eamon Lee's small lathe when he got it, andthe chuck held a tolerance of .0005" they don't come any closerthan that. But, some of the lathes I've seen, have a run out ofanywhere from .002 to .010" . you don't want that. The best way to check it is to mount a piece of roundstock into the chuck and using a dial indicator with a magneticbase, place the ind. point onto the stock and rotate the chuck Lets say you get .002" run out. This will give you a turnedpiece that could be .002 to .004" larger diam. than you wanted. You would have a lot of time spent fitting the males to thefemale. Let me know when you get your lathe, if you have anyquestions. i've been making ferrules for a long time and I maybe able to help you out. As a matter of fact, I just made a set of ferrules for a heddon #10 this weekend, to match the originals. They turned outgood. Dave LeClair check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site- http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from cdn@ticon.net Sun Apr 28 12:52:38 2002 g3SHqc401580 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 12:52:38 - (66.181.136.147) Subject: anybody out there? Did I get bumped or is it realy quiet today? from channer@frontier.net Sun Apr 28 13:00:17 2002 g3SI0G401914 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 13:00:16 - Subject: Re: Looking for bags me,too! One of the best things about REC bags is they don't have anystrings on them!john Dkenney94@cs.com wrote: I would give REC another chance. I've had great service from them &they do make very nice bags at a good price. Most other makes lookodd to me from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Apr 28 14:06:07 2002 g3SJ66403092 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:06:06 - 28 Apr 2002 12:06:05 PDT Subject: Re: anybody out there? I have got about 10 messages today total.It's fishin day --- Ned Guyette wrote: Did I get bumped or is it realy quiet today? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 28 14:28:45 2002 g3SJSi403688 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 14:28:44 -0500 helo=default) id 171uLh-0007jI-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 15:28:42 -0400 Subject: Re: anybody out there? Just another weekend on the List. Ever notice how on weekends, wheneveryone is at home and not atwork, there aren't many posts, but during the week, when everyone is atwork, there are lots andlots of posts? Hmmmm . . . ;o) M-D Did I get bumped or is it realy quiet today? from horsesho@ptd.net Sun Apr 28 16:00:07 2002 g3SL06405646 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 16:00:06 - by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4197. .Clear:0. Processed in 0.816296 secs); 28 Apr 2002 21:00:05 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Re: Cheap flies Hi Bob, MDRE is Flycast99@aol.com Also there is Hill's discount flies Telephone # 509-972-0412. I have received flies from both and they are first rate. Price used to be $7.95 per dozen. I do not know what it is now. Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Could someone tell me what the link for the cheap flies posted a while backwas and if they were any good? A buddy is in serious need of filling his flyboxes, and I cannot tie enough as it is. I hate to send him to the localflyshop for $3 flies when they are probably stocking the $3 a dozen fliesanyway.Thanks,Bob from rodwrapp@swbell.net Sun Apr 28 16:43:51 2002 g3SLhp406794 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 16:43:51 - (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) Subject: Re: Cheap flies Try www.yagersflies.com ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Cheap flies Hi Bob, MDRE is Flycast99@aol.com Also there is Hill's discountflies Telephone # 509-972-0412. I have received flies from both andthey are first rate. Price used to be $7.95 per dozen. I do not knowwhat it is now. Marty Bob Maulucci wrote: Could someone tell me what the link for the cheap flies posted a while back was and if they were any good? A buddy is in serious need of filling his fly boxes, and I cannot tie enough as it is. I hate to send him to the localflyshop for $3 flies when they are probably stocking the $3 a dozen fliesanyway.Thanks,Bob from oakmere@carol.net Sun Apr 28 18:04:29 2002 g3SN4S408730 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:04:28 -0500 g3SN4LX25847 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:04:22 -0400 Subject: RE: Ferrule Designs Hi Darryl: The advantage of the spigot design is a more uniform EI modulus of the therod as it passes through the ferrule. E is the modulus of elasticity of thegraphite prepreg and the I is the area moment of inertia used in mechanics.I have done mathematical calculations on this and analyzed both types(sleeve over butt and spigot) to show that the EI is smoother in trasitionbecause the area moment is closer to the center line of the rod. Best, FrankFrank Paul, "GreyFox"TroutBeck Fly and RodBamboo Rod Refinishing and Restoration;Graphite and Glass Rod Repair;Trout Flies, Seneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from dnhayashida@yahoo.com Sun Apr 28 18:17:20 2002 g3SNHJ409151 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:17:20 - 28 Apr 2002 16:17:19 PDT Subject: Re: Making my own ferrules - Step 1 I intend to make my ferrules from solid rod. Thereason for this is I have had solder joints onferrules made from tubing fail. Another reason is rodstock made from different metals is more availablethan tubing. My intention is to try aluminum,different alloys of bronze, stainless steel, maybeeven titanium. I don't think some of those metals canbe soldered. There is a lot I need to learn about machining. How docollets prevent run out? Darryl Hayashida --- LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Hi Darryl,When you get your lathe, check therun out of the chuck.If you want to make ferrules, you will want tokeep it to .001 orless. If the chuck has a lot of run out, you mayneed to buy somecollets. If you are making your ferrules fromtubing, you shouldn'tneed reamers. The inside diam. of the tubingshould be fairlyclose to the 64th. dimension that you would need.You will haveto measure the inside diam. of the tubing, to knowwhat diam. toturn your male slides to. The main reason you need accuracy inthe lathe, is for turning your males. If your lathe doesn't holdclose enoughtolerances, your male slide may be turned largerthan you wouldwant. If it is accurate enough, you can turn themales down to within .001 of the final fit and have very littlehand fitting to do. If they are too big, you will have todo a lot of hand fitting toget them to fit the females. This is where theaccuracy comes in to play. If your lathe is within a few thousandsof an inch, thefemales will be OK, because you are only turningdown the outside of the ferrule. But, when turning down theoutside of the males, you want to keep the tolerances close. I have an adjustable six jaw chuck inmy South Bend lathe.I can hold to .0005" . But, this chuck andadapter cost me $1,200.I'm sure you don't want to spend that much. I checked Eamon Lee's small lathewhen he got it, andthe chuck held a tolerance of .0005" they don'tcome any closerthan that. But, some of the lathes I've seen, havea run out ofanywhere from .002 to .010" . you don't wantthat. The best way to check it is to mounta piece of roundstock into the chuck and using a dial indicatorwith a magneticbase, place the ind. point onto the stock androtate the chuck Lets say you get .002" run out. Thiswill give you a turnedpiece that could be .002 to .004" larger diam.than you wanted. You would have a lot of time spentfitting the males to thefemale. Let me know when you get your lathe,if you have anyquestions. i've been making ferrules for a longtime and I maybe able to help you out. As a matter of fact, I just made aset of ferrules for a heddon #10 this weekend, to match the originals.They turned outgood. DaveLeClair check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site-http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from dnhayashida@yahoo.com Sun Apr 28 18:26:55 2002 g3SNQs409482 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:26:55 -0500 28 Apr 2002 16:26:54 PDT Subject: RE: Ferrule Designs Okay, next question is do you think a bamboo rod wouldbenifit from a spigot type ferrule? My guess would benickel silver or bronze couldn't stand the stress, butperhaps stainless steel or titanium.....Darryl Hayashida --- "Frank W. Paul" wrote: Hi Darryl: The advantage of the spigot design is a more uniformEI modulus of the therod as it passes through the ferrule. E is themodulus of elasticity of thegraphite prepreg and the I is the area moment ofinertia used in mechanics.I have done mathematical calculations on this andanalyzed both types(sleeve over butt and spigot) to show that the EI issmoother in trasitionbecause the area moment is closer to the center lineof the rod. Best, FrankFrank Paul, "GreyFox"TroutBeck Fly and RodBamboo Rod Refinishing and Restoration;Graphite and Glass Rod Repair;Trout Flies, Seneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA;570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University;864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina;864-882-0077 __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from saweiss@flash.net Sun Apr 28 18:32:02 2002 g3SNW1409768 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:32:01 - g3SNVe0101752; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:31:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Making my own ferrules - Step 1 Darryl,Collets can't prevent runout if there is runout in the spindle of the lathe.The collets are accurately machined and fit very precisely in the spindlenose of the lathe, so the inherent accuracy of the lathe is maintained. Thecollet used is chosen so there is a close fit of the stock in the collet.You can obtain collets in 1/64th increments. I don't know what colletarrangements are available for your lathe as there are many different colletstandards, from watchmaker's (WW) to large lathe applications (5c orlarger). I use 5C collets in my 11 inch logan lathe. You need at least anose cap and drawbar to utilize collets.You can minimize runout by using a 4-jaw chuck and a dial indicator to setup your stock. Potential runouts approaching zero can be achieved, but it istime consuming and the stock must be re-set each time it is removed andreplaced in the chuck. Collets are more suitable for production.Steve I intend to make my ferrules from solid rod. Thereason for this is I have had solder joints onferrules made from tubing fail. Another reason is rodstock made from different metals is more availablethan tubing. My intention is to try aluminum,different alloys of bronze, stainless steel, maybeeven titanium. I don't think some of those metals canbe soldered. There is a lot I need to learn about machining. How docollets prevent run out? Darryl Hayashida --- LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Hi Darryl,When you get your lathe, check therun out of the chuck.If you want to make ferrules, you will want tokeep it to .001 orless. If the chuck has a lot of run out, you mayneed to buy somecollets. If you are making your ferrules fromtubing, you shouldn'tneed reamers. The inside diam. of the tubingshould be fairlyclose to the 64th. dimension that you would need.You will haveto measure the inside diam. of the tubing, to knowwhat diam. toturn your male slides to. The main reason you need accuracy inthe lathe, is forturning your males. If your lathe doesn't holdclose enoughtolerances, your male slide may be turned largerthan you wouldwant. If it is accurate enough, you can turn themales down towithin .001 of the final fit and have very littlehand fitting to do. If they are too big, you will have todo a lot of hand fittingtoget them to fit the females. This is where theaccuracy comes into play. If your lathe is within a few thousandsof an inch, thefemales will be OK, because you are only turningdown the outside of the ferrule. But, when turning down theoutside of themales, you want to keep the tolerances close. I have an adjustable six jaw chuck inmy South Bend lathe.I can hold to .0005" . But, this chuck andadapter cost me $1,200.I'm sure you don't want to spend that much. I checked Eamon Lee's small lathewhen he got it, andthe chuck held a tolerance of .0005" they don'tcome any closerthan that. But, some of the lathes I've seen, havea run out ofanywhere from .002 to .010" . you don't wantthat. The best way to check it is to mounta piece of roundstock into the chuck and using a dial indicatorwith a magneticbase, place the ind. point onto the stock androtate the chuck Lets say you get .002" run out. Thiswill give you a turnedpiece that could be .002 to .004" larger diam.than you wanted. You would have a lot of time spentfitting the males to thefemale. Let me know when you get your lathe,if you have anyquestions. i've been making ferrules for a longtime and I maybe able to help you out. As a matter of fact, I just made aset of ferrules for aheddon #10 this weekend, to match the originals.They turned outgood. DaveLeClair check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site-http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from dybam@oct.net Sun Apr 28 18:39:31 2002 g3SNdV410199 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:39:31 -0500 Subject: Re: anybody out there? Communications, Inc. Jojo, It may be quiet because we are out fishing. The weather here in easternKansas is beautiful today, and I just returned from some fun bass fishing.At the back of a little agg land that I own I have a 30 acre reservoir andits full of crappie and bass.I used an electric motor on an old aluminumboat and landed some nice bass and two crappie.They were eager for a black woolyworm or a green streamer. Great day.mark----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: anybody out there? Just another weekend on the List. Ever notice how on weekends, when everyone is at home and not at work, there aren't many posts, but during the week, when everyone is at work, there are lots and lots of posts? Hmmmm . . . ;o) M-D From: "Ned Guyette" Did I get bumped or is it realy quiet today? from dnorl@qwest.net Sun Apr 28 18:44:38 2002 g3SNib410521 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 18:44:37 - 0000 (63.228.45.94) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Making my own ferrules - Step 1 Darryl,You can get ER type collets that fit in the morse taper of your lathe andtighten like a chuck either by hand or with a wrench. J&L have them intheir catalog and the imports are not too spendy. You only need to buy thecollets you need and not have to get a whole set.Dave----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Making my own ferrules - Step 1 Darryl,Collets can't prevent runout if there is runout in the spindle of the lathe. The collets are accurately machined and fit very precisely in the spindlenose of the lathe, so the inherent accuracy of the lathe is maintained. The collet used is chosen so there is a close fit of the stock in the collet.You can obtain collets in 1/64th increments. I don't know what colletarrangements are available for your lathe as there are many different collet standards, from watchmaker's (WW) to large lathe applications (5c orlarger). I use 5C collets in my 11 inch logan lathe. You need at least anose cap and drawbar to utilize collets.You can minimize runout by using a 4-jaw chuck and a dial indicator to setup your stock. Potential runouts approaching zero can be achieved, but it is time consuming and the stock must be re-set each time it is removed andreplaced in the chuck. Collets are more suitable for production.Steve I intend to make my ferrules from solid rod. Thereason for this is I have had solder joints onferrules made from tubing fail. Another reason is rodstock made from different metals is more availablethan tubing. My intention is to try aluminum,different alloys of bronze, stainless steel, maybeeven titanium. I don't think some of those metals canbe soldered. There is a lot I need to learn about machining. How docollets prevent run out? Darryl Hayashida --- LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Hi Darryl,When you get your lathe, check therun out of the chuck.If you want to make ferrules, you will want tokeep it to .001 orless. If the chuck has a lot of run out, you mayneed to buy somecollets. If you are making your ferrules fromtubing, you shouldn'tneed reamers. The inside diam. of the tubingshould be fairlyclose to the 64th. dimension that you would need.You will haveto measure the inside diam. of the tubing, to knowwhat diam. toturn your male slides to. The main reason you need accuracy inthe lathe, is forturning your males. If your lathe doesn't holdclose enoughtolerances, your male slide may be turned largerthan you wouldwant. If it is accurate enough, you can turn themales down towithin .001 of the final fit and have very littlehand fitting to do. If they are too big, you will have todo a lot of hand fittingtoget them to fit the females. This is where theaccuracy comes into play. If your lathe is within a few thousandsof an inch, thefemales will be OK, because you are only turningdown the outside of the ferrule. But, when turning down theoutside of themales, you want to keep the tolerances close. I have an adjustable six jaw chuck inmy South Bend lathe.I can hold to .0005" . But, this chuck andadapter cost me $1,200.I'm sure you don't want to spend that much. I checked Eamon Lee's small lathewhen he got it, andthe chuck held a tolerance of .0005" they don'tcome any closerthan that. But, some of the lathes I've seen, havea run out ofanywhere from .002 to .010" . you don't wantthat. The best way to check it is to mounta piece of roundstock into the chuck and using a dial indicatorwith a magneticbase, place the ind. point onto the stock androtate the chuck Lets say you get .002" run out. Thiswill give you a turnedpiece that could be .002 to .004" larger diam.than you wanted. You would have a lot of time spentfitting the males to thefemale. Let me know when you get your lathe,if you have anyquestions. i've been making ferrules for a longtime and I maybe able to help you out. As a matter of fact, I just made aset of ferrules for aheddon #10 this weekend, to match the originals.They turned outgood. DaveLeClair check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site-http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from rextutor@yahoo.com Sun Apr 28 19:18:26 2002 g3T0IP417184 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:18:25 -0500 28 Apr 2002 17:18:24 PDT Subject: Re: anybody out there? Rodmakers discussion group MarkI have been down to the local lake to test rods andtest the spawn (blegill and crappy) 3 times this monthand they aren't ready yet in Denver, Co. I tie agirdle bug and always have a blast, especially early.You've inspired me, I will try again tomorrow. --- Mark Dyba wrote: Jojo, It may be quiet because we are out fishing. Theweather here in easternKansas is beautiful today, and I just returned fromsome fun bass fishing.At the back of a little agg land that I own I have a30 acre reservoir andits full of crappie and bass.I used an electricmotor on an old aluminumboat and landed some nice bass and two crappie.They were eager for a black woolyworm or a greenstreamer. Great day.mark----- Original Message -----From: Jojo DeLancier Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 2:26 PMSubject: Re: anybody out there? Just another weekend on the List. Ever notice how on weekends, wheneveryone is at home and not at work, there aren't many posts, but during the week, when everyone is atwork, there are lots and lots of posts? Hmmmm . . . ;o) M-D From: "Ned Guyette" Did I get bumped or is it realy quiet today? __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from OSEGAL@glcc.com Sun Apr 28 20:17:11 2002 g3T1HB422222 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:17:11 - with Novell_GroupWise; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:17:03 -0400 Subject: Re: VIRUS CHECK: Hi list, I was in my HQ office last week and the IT dept. checked my lap top for =viruses. All clean!! Regards, Oscar Segal "Tim Doughty" 04/26/02 05:50PM I scan my computer to make sure I didn't have the virus and then went = Norton's to scan there just and case, my system is clear the virus seems = Hi list, I was in my HQ office last week and the IT dept. = lap top for viruses. All clean!! Regards, Oscar Segal <rodsupstream@exploremaine.com&g= to = sure I didn't have the virus and then went to Norton's to scan there = and case, my system is clear the virus seems to be coming from the = someone on the list. I suggest that everyone check to make sure, take= Tim Upstream Always, Tim Doughty Rod MakerUpstream= Custom Rods from BambooRods@aol.com Sun Apr 28 20:21:53 2002 g3T1Lq422626 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 20:21:52 - Subject: Re: Cheap flies Try Percy Flies (not sure of the WWW) I just received some for 7.50 per dozen. from rkrees@mcn.net Sun Apr 28 21:48:41 2002 g3T2me424899 for ; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 21:48:40 - helo=rkrees.mcn.net) id 1721DF-0005NJ-00; Sun, 28 Apr 2002 19:48:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Cheap flies http://www.llcote.com/ Percy Flies from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Apr 29 01:05:25 2002 g3T65O402241 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 01:05:24 -0500 Subject: Re: anybody out there? Well the opener here in Michigan was a bit COLD and WET - so I got tocleaning up my computer area and I found the first post of the list -January 14th 1995 - there were 16 members to start - from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Mon Apr 29 07:29:37 2002 g3TCTa407479 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:29:36 - Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt This would take a serious amount of beer, it would probably take severalfalls to get the angles just right, therefore requiring more beer - I'll do a live performance at the next gathering... Just need a planeticket! The butt is much better! The ego is still hurting. Did get to fish Saturdayafternoon (with a different rod) Thanks for all the concern, Peter -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt Yeah, but the only problem is that to get the right effect, we wouldHAVE to have pictures. Now, with all respect to Peter, I don't think alot of people would like to be looking at a picture of his butt cheek(his wife excluded of course). I'll bet he didn't even think of takinga picture before, during or after to document this correctly. I guessthe only thing we can ask for is for him to recreate the events, makingsure to document fully with photos. What say you Pete? Can you do that for us? HE HE HE Claude Freaner wrote: !LMAIP (Laughing My Ass In Pain!) You need to add a "Bloopers" section to the rodmaking tips page. Good idea! Add a "Bloopers" button to the web site. Claude --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Rodmaking Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Rodmaking Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/index.htmgenealogy home page: Under Construction from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Apr 29 07:41:21 2002 g3TCfK407972 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:41:20 - Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:40:40 -0400 Rodmakers List Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt FILETIME=[1237D7B0:01C1EF7B] Peter, I'm sure that somebody would pony up the beer, just to see therecreation. Glad to hear that the butt is healing. Peter Van Schaack wrote: This would take a serious amount of beer, it would probably take severalfalls to get the angles just right, therefore requiring more beer - I'll do a live performance at the next gathering... Just need a planeticket! The butt is much better! The ego is still hurting. Did get to fish Saturdayafternoon (with a different rod) Thanks for all the concern, Peter -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 12:08 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt Yeah, but the only problem is that to get the right effect, we wouldHAVE to have pictures. Now, with all respect to Peter, I don't think alot of people would like to be looking at a picture of his butt cheek(his wife excluded of course). I'll bet he didn't even think of takinga picture before, during or after to document this correctly. I guessthe only thing we can ask for is for him to recreate the events, makingsure to document fully with photos. What say you Pete? Can you do that for us? HE HE HE Claude Freaner wrote: !LMAIP (Laughing My Ass In Pain!) You need to add a "Bloopers" section to the rodmaking tips page. Good idea! Add a "Bloopers" button to the web site. Claude --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business home: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Rodmaking Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Rodmaking Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/index.htmgenealogy home page: Under Construction -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from rmoon@ida.net Mon Apr 29 08:16:04 2002 Received: from ida.net 0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ida.net) (208.141.176.39) by Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:16:10 -0600 ttalsma@macatawa.org CC: pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us, Rodmakers ListSubject: Re: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt Content-Type: text/plain; 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Todd Talsma wrote: Peter, I'm sure that somebody would pony up the beer, just to see therecreation. Glad to hear that the butt is healing. Butt how is the tip doing?rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from mrmac@tcimet.net Mon Apr 29 08:24:25 2002 g3TDOP410265 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:24:25 - Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:25:25 -0400 Rodmakers List Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt Maybe an .mpg for the Tips site on preferred ways NOT to produce a swelledbutt? mac Todd Talsma wrote: Peter, I'm sure that somebody would pony up the beer, just to see therecreation. Glad to hear that the butt is healing. Peter Van Schaack wrote: This would take a serious amount of beer, it would probably take severalfalls to get the angles just right, therefore requiring more beer - I'll do a live performance at the next gathering... Just need a planeticket! from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Apr 29 08:30:25 2002 g3TDUO410784 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:30:24 - Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:29:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt FILETIME=[ED5C3FB0:01C1EF81] Here we go again. Good one Ralph. I'll have to see if I can get adigital camcorder into the budget. Ralph MacKenzie wrote: Maybe an .mpg for the Tips site on preferred ways NOT to produce aswelled butt? mac Todd Talsma wrote: Peter, I'm sure that somebody would pony up the beer, just to see therecreation. Glad to hear that the butt is healing. Peter Van Schaack wrote: This would take a serious amount of beer, it would probably takeseveralfalls to get the angles just right, therefore requiring more beer - I'll do a live performance at the next gathering... Just need a planeticket! -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us Mon Apr 29 08:39:28 2002 g3TDdR411380 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 Moon'" Cc: "Rod Makers \(E-mail\)"Subject: RE: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu X-Listprocessor- Version:8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN The tip is doing well, will workon the repair someday. Pete -----Original Message----- From: Ralph W. Moon ttalsma@macatawa.org Cc: pvansch@wethersfield.k12.ct.us; Rodmakers ListSubject: Re: Fwd: RE: Tip top meets the butt Todd Talsma wrote: Peter, I'm sure that somebody would pony up the beer, just to see therecreation. Glad to hear that the butt is healing. Butt how is the tip doing?rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Apr 29 08:56:32 2002 g3TDuV412532 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:56:31 -0500 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:56:22 -0400 Subject: Re: anybody out there? Wayne, How many are still members of the list? Who were they? Mark Cole Wayne, Mark Cole from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Mon Apr 29 08:59:44 2002 g3TDxh413082 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 08:59:43 - g3TDxXtx029991 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:59:33 - Subject: We're not in Kansas anymore..... Well, last evening was an experience I'd rather not go through again. As I'm sure a lot of you know, there were some killer twisters that went through Southern Maryland last night and did heavy damage, killing three people, and flattening many homes and businesses. My daughter was on line chatting with some of her friends from school that live in La Plata Maryland, about 8 miles down the road to the south of us. All of a sudden, she started freaking out. She said one of her friends said that there was a tornado in their neighborhood, and then her friend dropped off line. Then the power in our home went out. The wind started really picking up, and a couple of tree branches broke off some trees and hit our home. My wife lit one of the hurricane candles we had under the sink, and I turned on one of our battery powered radios. We picked up the news broadcasts, and they were reporting the twisters hitting to the south of us, and they weren't sure of the direction of the path of the twisters. We went into one of the rooms in our house with no windows, huddled together with the radio and sat out the wind storm. It lasted almost a half an hour. The wind was really screaming, but there was no more flying branches, at least that I could tell, hitting our home. The news broadcast said that a number of tornados touched down south of us, and according to the reports, the one that did the major damage in La Plata, had winds of over 250 mph. We're finally seeing footage from the news helicopters this morning, and it looks like bombs had gone off all over the town of La Plata. Nobody in my home injured, and just a slight bit of damage to the home. Other than the fright, we're okay, as well as the neighbors. We all ended up out in the street in front of our homes after the wind died down, and eventually, the power came back on. Glad to be alive,Mark from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Mon Apr 29 09:32:41 2002 g3TEWe415276 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:32:40 - (authenticated) Mon, 29 Apr 2002 07:31:37 -0700 Subject: Re: We're not in Kansas anymore..... Mark, Glad you and yours are okay, if a little wind-beaten. Sounds a lot like ahurricane, except quicker and with perhaps less warning. Our thoughts arewith thosewho did not fair so well.obligatory rodmaking note: As you're pawing through the debris, keepyour eyeout for nice burled woods. Harry Mark Wendt wrote: Well, last evening was an experience I'd rather not go through again. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from stoltz10@attbi.com Mon Apr 29 10:20:07 2002 g3TFK6419012 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:20:06 - Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:20:00 +0000 Subject: Re: We're not in Kansas anymore..... Glad to hear you and your family are safe, sound way too scary for me. Tim----- Original Message ----- Subject: We're not in Kansas anymore..... Well, last evening was an experience I'd rather not go through again. AsI'm sure a lot of you know, there were some killer twisters that wentthrough Southern Maryland last night and did heavy damage, killing threepeople, and flattening many homes and businesses. My daughter was onlinechatting with some of her friends from school that live in La PlataMaryland, about 8 miles down the road to the south of us. All of a sudden, she started freaking out. She said one of her friends said that there wasa tornado in their neighborhood, and then her friend dropped offline. Then the power in our home went out. The wind started reallypicking up, and a couple of tree branches broke off some trees and hit ourhome. My wife lit one of the hurricane candles we had under the sink, andI turned on one of our battery powered radios. We picked up the newsbroadcasts, and they were reporting the twisters hitting to the south ofus, and they weren't sure of the direction of the path of the twisters. We went into one of the rooms in our house with no windows, huddled togetherwith the radio and sat out the wind storm. It lasted almost a half anhour. The wind was really screaming, but there was no more flyingbranches, at least that I could tell, hitting our home. The news broadcast said that a number of tornados touched down south of us, and according tothe reports, the one that did the major damage in La Plata, had winds ofover 250 mph. We're finally seeing footage from the news helicopters thismorning, and it looks like bombs had gone off all over the town of LaPlata. Nobody in my home injured, and just a slight bit of damage to thehome. Other than the fright, we're okay, as well as the neighbors. We all ended up out in the street in front of our homes after the wind died down,and eventually, the power came back on. Glad to be alive,Mark from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Apr 29 11:13:56 2002 g3TGDt422887 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:13:55 - helo=gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net) id 172Dmh-0002ig-00; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 09:13:51 -0700 by gonzo.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3TGDoq28352; Subject: Re: We're not in Kansas anymore..... This thread stirs memories. Some are 10 years old, some are last week. Iwill start with the ten year old one. Ever stand outside in a thunderstorm. I have. It was not intentional. I hadleft work early; by the way, this is the Dallas area. Thunderstorms andtornadoes are not uncommon. It was the summertime and hot. I had riddenthe DART bus to work so I walked about a quarter to the bus stop. Therewas a little cloud to the north that was putting out a few "sparks". Iremember thinking "wish that thing would come down this way. Maybe therain would cool things off." Be careful what you wish for. You may get it. Idid. The clouds came closer and closer and the sky turned dark and it beganto rain. I was standing under a sapling beside the bus stop sign. The areawas mostly warehouses with no place to go. Then the rain started. The windblew so hard the rain was falling horizontal. I clung to the sapling until myback was completely wet. Then the wind changed directions and I got it full inthe face. When my front was completely wet, the wind eased and it reallyrain!ed. When the bus finally got there, there was about 6 inches of water in thestreet. It was just level with the curb. The only humorous note. When I changed busses, the driver of the bus Itransferred to wanted to know why I was wet. When I told him he answered"Raining, it hasn't been raining." I pulled the pocket protector out of myshirt pocket and emptied out almost a half cup of water. The other was last week. My mother had back surgery and we were going totake her home. We left Austin a few minutes after six and headed north. The trip was uneventful until we neared Waxahachie. Time and coffee werehaving their effect and the rest stop just south of Waxahachie was where Iwanted to be. As we got to Hillsboro, south of Waxahachie, we could see adarkening to the north. It became a race, could we make the rest areabefore the storm. My wife turned on the radio but didn't have any luckfinding information on the weather. We made the rest area just as thestorm did. Lots of luck getting to the rest rooms though. Those arrivingbefore us had the access blocked. Cars parked here and there, in the middleof the street. No chance of making the rest room until the storm passed. I'm thinking, " I gotta find a rest room." I told my wife we would look for aservice station. She finally remembered to turn on the cell phone. It hadn'tbeen on for more tha!n a few seconds when it began to ring. It was my daughter. She had beentrying to reach us. Waxahachie was in the middle of a storm front that wassprouting tornadoes. So here we were. Driving down the interstate, looking remember thinking that it was just as likely to be hit by a tornado when wewere sitting still as when we were moving so I kept looking for a rest room. Besides a moving target is harder to hit! It was pitch black out and the rainwas horizontal and the wind was blowing west to east across the highway. The car rocked back and forth as the wind howled past the car but all I couldthink of was finding a rest room. Finally as the storm was subsiding wefound a service station. Relief! Did I get scared? Not really. I remember thinking, "I'll get scared when thisis over. I gotta find a rest room!" Then there was the time in '94 when the L.A. earthquake hit. My wife and Iwere staying on the seventh floor of a hotel not far from Bob Mariott'sstore. My wife woke me wanting to know what was going on. The bed wasshaking and I could hear water in the toilet being splashed out onto the floor. "Go back to sleep," I told her, "it's only an earthquake." Regards,OnisK5vkq@ix.netcom.com from Dennishigham@cs.com Mon Apr 29 11:53:55 2002 g3TGrs425410 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 11:53:54 - Subject: Re: Para-15: rod from hell, or the ultimate expression of taperdesign? Jeff,Just got back from the Merritt, BC gathering or I would have posted this sooner. We should have 2 original Para-15's at Grayrock. Bring your's and we can try them out. Dennis Jeff,Just got back from the Merritt, BC gathering or I would have postedthis sooner. We should have 2 original Para-15's at Grayrock. Bring your'sand we can try them out. Dennis from ECKTOR_66@YAHOO.COM Mon Apr 29 12:01:46 2002 g3TH1j426087 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:01:45 - Mon, 29 Apr 2002 10:01:44 PDT Subject: Re: Nodeless Splices rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I have nothing but trouble trying to bind my nodelesssplices with thread I always get some serious shiftingwhich, because I flame, results in a very visiblesplice joint. (This happened last night as a matterof fact.) I'm going back to using the Pony clamps (per ChrisBogart's article). I use three clamps per splice andfit both pieces together - enamel side down - on athick piece of glass to ensure the enamel surfaces areeven. the splices. I'm increasingly concerned about thelong-term integrity of Titebond II after thestraightening process. I'm usually very careful withthe heat application and I'll really flex a strip toattempt to cause a failure if I think I've overheateda splice. As far a striaght strips go, I dry fit the piecestogether - looking for alignment of the sufaces to beglued and then eyeballing the strip to be as straightas possible. Sometimes I get good results, but nevergood enough that I don't have to straighten. Eric --- Tony Young wrote: Try holding the scarfs together and binding withthread. Thread provides more than enough pressure. When the glue's curedjust plane the thread off. Tony snip >> __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from cattanac@wmis.net Mon Apr 29 12:50:12 2002 g3THoC428697 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:50:12 -0500 Subject: List History The Rodmakers list came as a spin off of sorts - there were several =interested folks that were subscribed to the Flyfishing @ list - however =as some list have - there were some people that were just laying in wait = and when it was my turn in the barrel so to say - from statements of the =differences between instructing men at rodmaking vs instructing women at =rodmaking - I got rather flamed from this guy that apparently had little =to do during his day other than finding fault with others - So - step =ahead - Mike Biondo - Mike was in a position at Washington University =(St Louis, MO) - he emailed me and asked if I would be interested in =creating a separrate list just for the rodmaking interest - and so =started the list (at first a email repeater) - the first 'post' came = from Mike the afternoon of 1/14/95 and there were 16 'original' members =they were as follows Mike BiondoWayne CattanachKevin Van DorenRichard MiyaraStefan TritscherFrank StetzerReed CurryPeter JustDanny WallsGary YoungSteve RobbinsLen GorneyJoel DunnMike EllsGene HolowachukBrandon Nuttall I have no Idea of the list membership today - I believe that a list can =be had by sending a 'review' request to the list server - obviously the =activity here with some folks is cyclic - as they(we) get caught up with =other issues or fishing Wayne The Rodmakers list came as a spin off= there were several interested folks that were subscribed to the = list - however as some list have - there were some people that were just = in wait for some of us to slip with less that Politically Correct = and when it was my turn in the barrel so to say - from statements of the = differences between instructing men at rodmaking vs instructing women at = rodmaking - I got rather flamed from this guy that apparently had little = during his day other than finding fault with others - So - step ahead - = he emailed me and asked if I would be interested in creating a separrate = just for the rodmaking interest - and so started the list (at first a = repeater) - the first 'post' came from Mike the afternoon of 1/14/95 and = were 16 'original' members they were as follows Mike BiondoWayne CattanachKevin Van DorenRichard MiyaraStefan TritscherFrank StetzerReed CurryPeter JustDanny WallsGary YoungSteve RobbinsLen GorneyJoel DunnMike EllsGene HolowachukBrandon Nuttall Some of the names are still with us - = I have no Idea of the list membership = believe that a list can be had by sending a 'review' request to the list = - obviously the activity here with some folks is cyclic - as they(we) = up with other issues or fishing Wayne from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Apr 29 12:55:26 2002 g3THtP429118 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 12:55:25 -0500 Mon, 29 Apr 2002 13:54:45 -0400 Subject: Re: List History FILETIME=[F2763FD0:01C1EFA6] As of 4/12/2002, the list had 544 subscribers. Looks like the guys whostarted list (thanks to all of you) really have had an impact. Wayne Cattanach wrote: The Rodmakers list came as a spin off of sorts - there were severalinterested folks that were subscribed to the Flyfishing @ list - however as some list have - there were some people that were justlaying in wait for some of us to slip with less that PoliticallyCorrect statements - and when it was my turn in the barrel so to say - from statements of the differences between instructing men atrodmaking vs instructing women at rodmaking - I got rather flamed fromthis guy that apparently had little to do during his day other thanfinding fault with others - So - step ahead - Mike Biondo - Mike wasin a position at Washington University (St Louis, MO) - he emailed meand asked if I would be interested in creating a separrate list just repeater) - the first 'post' came from Mike the afternoon of 1/14/95and there were 16 'original' members they were as follows Mike BiondoWayne CattanachKevin Van DorenRichard MiyaraStefan TritscherFrank StetzerReed CurryPeter JustDanny WallsGary YoungSteve RobbinsLen GorneyJoel DunnMike EllsGene HolowachukBrandon Nuttall Some of the names are still with us - I have no Idea of the list membership today - I believe that a listcan be had by sending a 'review' request to the list server -obviously the activity here with some folks is cyclic - as they(we)get caught up with other issues or fishing Wayne -- Todd Talsma 8412 North Maple Court Zeeland MI 49464 ------ email: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/ Bamboo Tips site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/ Bamboo Sources site:http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/ home page:http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/ genealogy pages: Under construction from aebersold@ou.edu Mon Apr 29 15:10:45 2002 Received: from g3TKAi428143 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 15:10:44 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Heat treating Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2002 format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or allof this message may not be legible. ------ seen a discussion of this since joining the list about six months ago. I've gotmy strips oversized 0.05 and am ready to heat treat. I don't think I've readanywhere if this is the right dimension. It seems the mass of the stripsshould make a difference. Also I can't find two authors who agree aboutlength of time and temperature. The only definitive thing I've read is Nunleysaying he can smell when to take the cane out but I don't know what thatsmell is. All the rods I've made to date (grand total of 4) I've cranked for15min at 350. I saw one post where someone cooked a rod over 400 and said"no problem". Any advice/thoughts or smell meters are welcome. -d Dennis text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heat treating I haven't seen a discussion of this = thing I've read is Nunley saying he can smell when to take = the cane out but I Any advice/thoughts or smell meters are = welcome. lblan@provide.net Mon Apr 29 15:21:19 2002 Received: from mailgw1 mailgw1.qatar.net.qa (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:18:22 +0300 (QATAR) header was inserted by mailgw1.qatar.net.qa From: lblan Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN Subject: Virus - Please Read My computer has apparently been sending a .exe file topeople in my address book. I am sending this using myISP's webmail feature, this note will not be infected. My sincere apologies to anyone who might have receivedinfected mail from my system. One of the auto-responders tells me that the file name ispictu.exe. This corresponds to the Worm_Klez worm, andit's variants. I have searched my system for the filesthat should be present, with no success. I have alsodownloaded and run an application designed specifically toremove this worm. The application reports that I do nothave the virus present on my system. I would welcome any specific ideas relating to this worm. Larry Blan from rextutor@yahoo.com Mon Apr 29 16:19:56 2002 g3TLJs415618 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:19:54 - 29 Apr 2002 14:19:53 PDT Subject: Re: Heat treating 4 min per side (reversing direction) at 375. The smellis like cinnamon- a truly wonderful smell. --- "Aebersold, Dennis R" wrote: I haven't seen a discussion of this since joiningthe list about six monthsago. I've got my strips oversized 0.05 and am readyto heat treat. I don'tthink I've read anywhere if this is the rightdimension. It seems the massof the strips should make a difference. Also Ican't find two authors whoagree about length of time and temperature. Theonly definitive thing I'veread is Nunley saying he can smell when to take thecane out but I don'tknow what that smell is. All the rods I've made todate (grand total of 4)I've cranked for 15min at 350. I saw one post wheresomeone cooked a rodover 400 and said "no problem". Any advice/thoughtsor smell meters arewelcome.-dDennis Aebersold __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Mon Apr 29 16:35:18 2002 g3TLZH419466 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:35:18 - g3TLZ4tx015620 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:35:10 - Subject: Re: List History Well done guys! What a great list, and really good list members! Mark At 01:56 PM 4/29/02 -0400, you wrote: As of 4/12/2002, the list had 544 subscribers. Looks like the guys whostarted list (thanks to all of you) really have had an impact. from rmoon@ida.net Mon Apr 29 16:39:37 2002 g3TLdb420502 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:39:37 - 0000 Subject: Re: Heat treating Dennis you are right, the mass of the strips does indeed make adifference, and heating for 21 minutes 20.432 seconds at 271.5 degreesmay be fine in one oven, but another may require 271.834 degrees. BobHas it right. The time strips heat treat is dependent on the point thatthe moisture content is brought low enough so that the steamy smelldisappears, and is replaced by a pleasant aroma of volatile oils. Do alittle playing and smelling on some scrap to determine the right point.So you may waste a little of your cuttings. So?? but try it, it doeswork and it works very accurately so that each batch of cane is treatedto the same doneness. Ralph Rex Tutor wrote: 4 min per side (reversing direction) at 375. The smellis like cinnamon- a truly wonderful smell.--- "Aebersold, Dennis R" wrote: I haven't seen a discussion of this since joiningthe list about six monthsago. I've got my strips oversized 0.05 and am readyto heat treat. I don'tthink I've read anywhere if this is the rightdimension. It seems the massof the strips should make a difference. Also Ican't find two authors whoagree about length of time and temperature. Theonly definitive thing I'veread is Nunley saying he can smell when to take thecane out but I don'tknow what that smell is. All the rods I've made todate (grand total of 4)I've cranked for 15min at 350. I saw one post wheresomeone cooked a rodover 400 and said "no problem". Any advice/thoughtsor smell meters arewelcome.-dDennis Aebersold __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Health - your guide to health and wellnesshttp://health.yahoo.com --rmoon@ida.net www.ida.net/users/rmoon from bob@downandacross.com Mon Apr 29 16:42:59 2002 g3TLgw421486 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 16:42:58 - Subject: RE: Heat treating Heat treatingIf I flame a rod, I have been using the "Garrisonesque" 7 or 8minutes at 375 with good results. I do all the strips the same size so thatthe color is the same. I have tried other times on blonde rods with goodresults(lately, 40 minutes at 310, 30 minutes at 350). Most of the time Iflame my rods, so I stick to 7 or 8 minutes @ 375. I figure the shorter thetime, the less chances I will forget to flip the strips because I have movedon to something else. I have not had any trouble with sets or brittle cane.It changes the color slightly, not drastically, which I would see as being abad thing.I will say one thing for sure...the only rods I have ever had trouble withare those that are flamed only. I don't care how many sides you flame, aflamed only rod will be softer and may even take a set. A good oven (I haveBret Reiter's) is the best tool I have bought, even if the time andtemperature seem at times to be unimportant. The fact that the rods aretreated makes all the difference.Best regards,Bob-----Original Message--- --From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu RSent: Monday, April 29, 2002 4:11 PM Subject: Heat treating I haven't seen a discussion of this since joining the list about sixmonths ago. I've got my strips oversized 0.05 and am ready to heat treat.I don't think I've read anywhere if this is the right dimension. It seemsthe mass of the strips should make a difference. Also I can't find twoauthors who agree about length of time and temperature. The only definitivething I've read is Nunley saying he can smell when to take the cane out butI don't know what that smell is. All the rods I've made to date (grandtotal of 4) I've cranked for 15min at 350. I saw one post where someonecooked a rod over 400 and said "no problem". Any advice/thoughts or smellmeters are welcome. -dDennis Aebersold Heat treating good results. I do all the strips the same size so that the color is the = have tried other times on blonde rods with good results(lately, 40 = 310, 30 minutes at 350). Most of the time I flame my rods, so I stick to = forget to flip the strips because I have moved on to something else. I = had any trouble with sets or brittle cane. It changes the color = drastically, which I would see as being a bad thing. = one thing for sure...the only rods I have ever had trouble with are = are flamed only. I don't care how many sides you flame, a flamed only = be softer and may even take a set. A good oven (I have Bret Reiter's) is = best tool I have bought, even if the time and temperature seem at times = difference. regards,Bob treatingI haven't seen a discussion of this = can smell when to take the cane out but I don't know what that smell = All the rods I've made to date (grand total of 4) I've cranked for = = welcome. Aebersold from aport@si.rr.com Mon Apr 29 17:00:44 2002 g3TM0i425784 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:00:44 - Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:00:37 -0400 Subject: Virus All,My Norton is quaranting "lblan"'s e-mail . Says it has the picacu =virus. I'm NOT doing this to get everyone to shun Larry, but I thought =you all should know before you open any attachments you get from him.Art All, the picacu virus. I'm NOT doing this to get everyone to shun Larry, but = thought you all should know before you open any attachments you get from = him.Art from avyoung@iinet.net.au Mon Apr 29 17:53:12 2002 g3TMrB407512 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 17:53:11 - Subject: Re: We're not in Kansas anymore..... Good nothing serious happened to you all there.All we've got to worry about are cyclones and even then where I am they're rare. Quite an amazing event to have to deal with. Tony At 09:59 AM 4/29/02 -0400, Mark Wendt wrote: Well, last evening was an experience I'd rather not go through again. As I'm sure a lot of you know, there were some killer twisters that went through Southern Maryland last night and did heavy damage, killing three people, and flattening many homes and businesses. My daughter was on line chatting with some of her friends from school that live in La Plata Maryland, about 8 miles down the road to the south of us. All of a sudden, she started freaking out. She said one of her friends said that there was a tornado in their neighborhood, and then her friend dropped off line. Then the power in our home went out. The wind started really picking up, and a couple of tree branches broke off some trees and hit our home. My wife lit one of the hurricane candles we had under the sink, and I turned on one of our battery powered radios. We picked up the news broadcasts, and they were reporting the twisters hitting to the south of us, and they weren't sure of the direction of the path of the twisters. We went into one of the rooms in our house with no windows, huddled together with the radio and sat out the wind storm. It lasted almost a half an hour. The wind was really screaming, but there was no more flying branches, at least that I could tell, hitting our home. The news broadcast said that a number of tornados touched down south of us, and according to the reports, the one that did the major damage in La Plata, had winds of over 250 mph. We're finally seeing footage from the news helicopters this morning, and it looks like bombs had gone off all over the town of La Plata. Nobody in my home injured, and just a slight bit of damage to the home. Other than the fright, we're okay, as well as the neighbors. We all ended up out in the street in front of our homes after the wind died down, and eventually, the power came back on. Glad to be alive,Mark AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from bob@downandacross.com Mon Apr 29 18:08:55 2002 g3TN8s411041 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:08:54 - ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:53:46 -0400 Subject: Still setting up my mill Guys:I would like to ask some advice from those who have done this sort of thingbefore. I am trying to get my mill going, but I have been happily pluggingaway on the forms, and I am having quite a good time. I promised myself, nomilling until I get the orders done.When I catch up, my first order of business is to get some of my tapers seton the numerous taper bars that I have for the mill. If you look herehttp://www.powerfibers.com/taperset.jpg you can see the simple milling setup. I have tried to set the forms with calipers to no avail. It is too hardto hold and adjust all three screws. What you cannot see in the pic is thatthere is another screw on the bottom side of each bar. The small set screwsin the picture push, and the large screw on the other side pulls. What doyou all think the best way to set the tapers would be...on the mill itself?With a micrometer? An inside mic to check the distance between bars? Sincethere are two screws pushing, I am unsure of how to get equal distances oneach side as well as tightening the bottom screw. It seems like a lot to doat once. I also thought that maybe it would be easy to make some wooden or mdftemplates on the table saw. Any advice on the best way to do those? Iapologize for the bandwidth, but sometimes we all miss the obvious answerright under our noses.Thanks,Bob from cristantr@rogers.com Mon Apr 29 18:33:09 2002 g3TNX6416518 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 18:33:08 - (InterMail vM.5.01.04.13 201-253-122-122-113-20020313) with Subject: Stress Charts mail.bloor.is.net.cable.rogers.com from [24.112.204.167] using IDat Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:32:59 -0400 Good evening everyone, Being somewhat new to the craft of rodbuilding, I have taken it upon =myself to try to understand fly rod stress charts. Now, not being an =engineer, frankly, they are 'stressing' me out. Please exuse the punn =but it has been a long day. If any one can lend advice in this matter =it would be greatly apreciated. ie: what a slow, medium, or fast action =rod stress curve looks like, what a slight kick upwards in a stress =curve indicates etc. Or if someone can point me in the right direction =as far as understanding them (web sites and the such) it would be =greatly apreciated. ThanksRobert Good evening everyone, Being somewhat new to the craft of = have taken it upon myself to try to understand fly rod stress = matter it would be greatly apreciated. ie: what a slow, medium, or fast = rod stress curve looks like, what a slight kick upwards in a stress = apreciated. ThanksRobert from dpvbkjs@tdstelme.net Mon Apr 29 19:23:45 2002 g3U0Ni426374 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:23:44 -0500 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:23:43 -0500 Subject: Waxilit Tool Wax List, Has anyone had any experience wwith a product called Waxilit. Lee Valleysays it is a silicon free wax for protecting tools. Unfortunately they, forsome reason, don't send it to the U.S. I would like to protect my L-N planesand this sounds like the stuff to do it. I found a company in the U.S. thatsells it to protect woodworking tool tables but the smallest quantity they sellis 1.6 kg. I may get it anyway. Any advice ? David (in snowy, rainy Maine) from oakmere@carol.net Mon Apr 29 19:59:45 2002 g3U0xi403213 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 19:59:44 -0500 g3U0xRr00910 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:59:28 -0400 Subject: RE: Ferrules Hi Darryl: In some ways, bamboo rods have spigot ferrules. The male ferrule hasbamboointo its base and then it is put into a female ferrule that receives italmost to its base when assembled. Quite different than on a graphite rod(opps - sorry guys) which has a hollow blank and then fitted with a spigotplug. Here the spigot plug only goes part way into the rod when assembled. Best, Frank Frank Paul, "GreyFox"TroutBeck Fly and RodBamboo Rod Refinishing and Restoration;Graphite and Glass Rod Repair;Trout Flies, Seneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from oakmere@carol.net Mon Apr 29 20:04:40 2002 g3U14e404442 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:04:40 -0500 g3U14XT03411 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:04:34 -0400 Subject: RE: Storm Hi Folks: Glad to hear most of you survived the bad weather up in Maryland. Will betraveling to Pennsylvania on Wednesday to open the cottage for the summerand fall period. Will do some fishing and relaxing after a very busy springacademic semester at Clemson University. Best, FrankFrank Paul, "GreyFox"TroutBeck Fly and RodBamboo Rod Refinishing and Restoration;Graphite and Glass Rod Repair;Trout Flies, Seneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from oakmere@carol.net Mon Apr 29 20:10:38 2002 g3U1Ab405974 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:10:37 -0500 g3U1AVw05765 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:10:31 -0400 Subject: RE: Bamboo Rod History Hi Wayne and others: As someone who has only been on the list the last couple of years, I wouldlike to see a history of the list published somewhere. What about someonewriting an article for Bob's Power Fibers? Just a thought. Talky tonight -aren't I?? Best, FrankFrank Paul, "GreyFox"TroutBeck Fly and RodBamboo Rod Refinishing and Restoration;Graphite and Glass Rod Repair;Trout Flies, Seneca, SC Summer Residence: Troutbeck Cottage, Waterville, PA; 570-753- 8121fwpaul@ces.clemson.edu (work), Clemson University; 864-656- 7471oakmere@carol.net (home), South Carolina; 864-882-0077 from BambooRods@aol.com Mon Apr 29 20:19:29 2002 g3U1JR408129 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:19:27 -0500 Subject: Re: anybody out there? And the 16 were??? from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Apr 29 20:52:04 2002 g3U1q4415295 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 20:52:04 -0500 helo=excalibur.ix.netcom.com) id 172Mo8-0000Qi-00; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 21:51:57 -0400 Subject: Re: Waxilit Tool Wax --=======264254D3======= ascii; format=flowed I have a small can of something called DriCote by Sandaro. It is billed as a dry lubricant. No petroleum products and no silicone. Made for woodworking tools. Sold by Woodcraft. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 07:23 PM 4/29/02 -0500, D.P. Van Burgel and K.J. Scott wrote: List, Has anyone had any experience wwith a product called Waxilit. Lee Valley says it is a silicon free wax for protecting tools. Unfortunately they, planes and this sounds like the stuff to do it. I found a company in the U.S. that sells it to protect woodworking tool tables but the smallest quantity they sell is 1.6 kg. I may get it anyway. Any advice ? David (in snowy, rainy Maine) ---Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/02 --=======264254D3======= ok-182F310D ---Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).Version: 6.0.351 / Virus Database: 197 - Release Date: 4/19/02 --=======264254D3=======-- from channer@frontier.net Mon Apr 29 22:09:39 2002 g3U39c418925 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:09:38 - Subject: Re: Stress Charts Robert;The stress curves don't mean a d--n thing to me, I find the dimensiongraph tells me a lot more. Look at what the actual shape of the rod is.You can use a rod, or rods, you know as a benchmark to compare otherrods against.john Robert Cristant wrote: Good evening everyone, Being somewhat new to the craft of rodbuilding, I have taken it uponmyself to try to understand fly rod stress charts. Now, not being anengineer, frankly, they are 'stressing' me out. Please exuse the punnbut it has been a long day. If any one can lend advice in this matterit would be greatly apreciated. ie: what a slow, medium, or fastaction rod stress curve looks like, what a slight kick upwards in astress curve indicates etc. Or if someone can point me in the rightdirection as far as understanding them (web sites and the such) itwould be greatly apreciated. ThanksRobert from channer@frontier.net Mon Apr 29 22:12:45 2002 g3U3Cj419339 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:12:45 -0500 Subject: Re: anybody out there? Wayne already posted who the original list members were, if i hadn't would forward it to you.john BambooRods@aol.com wrote: And the 16 were??? from irish-george@chartermi.net Mon Apr 29 22:55:19 2002 g3U3tJ421483 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 22:55:19 -0500 Subject: Re: List History You probably have a few more who think they're on the list at any given timeas the list seems to rather randomly "unsubscribe" a few folks on a fairlyregular basis. (Anyone know what causes that?) All in all, it is a great list and a very nice group of helpful folks! George Bourke ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: List History As of 4/12/2002, the list had 544 subscribers. Looks like the guys whostarted list (thanks to all of you) really have had an impact. Wayne Cattanach wrote: The Rodmakers list came as a spin off of sorts - there were severalinterested folks that were subscribed to the Flyfishing @ list - however as some list have - there were some people that were justlaying in wait for some of us to slip with less that PoliticallyCorrect statements - and when it was my turn in the barrel so to say - from statements of the differences between instructing men atrodmaking vs instructing women at rodmaking - I got rather flamed fromthis guy that apparently had little to do during his day other thanfinding fault with others - So - step ahead - Mike Biondo - Mike wasin a position at Washington University (St Louis, MO) - he emailed meand asked if I would be interested in creating a separrate list just repeater) - the first 'post' came from Mike the afternoon of 1/14/95and there were 16 'original' members they were as follows Mike BiondoWayne CattanachKevin Van DorenRichard MiyaraStefan TritscherFrank StetzerReed CurryPeter JustDanny WallsGary YoungSteve RobbinsLen GorneyJoel DunnMike EllsGene HolowachukBrandon Nuttall Some of the names are still with us - I have no Idea of the list membership today - I believe that a listcan be had by sending a 'review' request to the list server -obviously the activity here with some folks is cyclic - as they(we)get caught up with other issues or fishing Wayne --Todd Talsma8412 North Maple CourtZeeland MI 49464------ web design business page: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo Tips site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo/Bamboo Sources site: http://www.webbizbuilders.com/Bamboo_Sources/home page: http://external.sligh.com/~toddt/genealogy pages: Under construction from shane_person@telus.net Mon Apr 29 23:10:07 2002 g3U4A6422265 for ; Mon, 29 Apr 2002 23:10:06 - (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Subject: Re: Ferrule Design Darryl Hayashida wrote: What is the advantage to the "spigot" type ferrule yousee on graphite rods?Darryl Hayashida I have a Henry Milwards 9'-3" 5-piece rod, the ferrules of which arebrass and have a spike-type projection on the male half. What is the Shane from lblan@provide.net Tue Apr 30 06:08:27 2002 g3UB8Q428949 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:08:27 - with HTTP id 19646243 for ; Tue, 30 Apr2002 07:08:26 -0400 Subject: Virus Update An update on my virus problem. I have been unable to detectany virus, despite using two different AV programs and 3programs designed to remove the virus. I found the following at:http://www3.ca.com/solutions/collateral.asp?CT=65&ID=1705 "Klez.H may use address 'spoofing' to make the e-mail itsends appear as if it has come from another machine. Ituses addresses that it locates in the infected system todisplay in the "From" line of the e-mail." This may not be the problem here, but I rather suspect itsince I cannot find any trace of the virus on my machine.In addition, my ISP uses a virus scanner, I use an AV thatis updated daily, and my firewall did not log anythingususual. This is especially insidious, since the personwho might actually be spreading the virus would remainunaware that he is doing so. Larry Blan from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Apr 30 06:15:48 2002 g3UBFl429404 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:15:47 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Subject: LN # 2 Guys/Gals, Need some help. Ordered a # 2 and it arrived last night. How in the devil doyou hold it? Wrapped my hand every which way around it and still I eitherstrike my fingers on the blade adjustment, the butt of my hand hangs overthe end or my fingers are laying along the blade. Is this a toy or a serious plane? Would expect that it should cut wood if I canjust figure it out. regards, Don ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from petermckean@netspace.net.au Tue Apr 30 06:25:40 2002 g3UBPc429737 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:25:39 - g3UBPVL71070; Subject: Re: LN # 2 Yeah, send it over, Don, and I'll have a look at it for you. If you want,I'll send you something bigger, like my Stanley #4, as a replacement. Peter from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Apr 30 06:51:16 2002 g3UBpG400301 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:51:16 - g3UBp9B24239; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: Virus Update --------------2B431E2F1D7B1D0CEE1A49F6 The Duke Univ. email server has a virus checker that has twice (in thepast 2 days) blocked emails from RODMAKERS from reaching me. Both wereblocked because the Klez.H virus was detected. Good luck, dws. lblan@provide.net wrote: An update on my virus problem. I have been unable to detectany virus, despite using two different AV programs and 3programs designed to remove the virus. I found the following at:http://www3.ca.com/solutions/collateral.asp?CT=65&ID=1705 "Klez.H may use address 'spoofing' to make the e-mail itsends appear as if it has come from another machine. Ituses addresses that it locates in the infected system todisplay in the "From" line of the e-mail." This may not be the problem here, but I rather suspect itsince I cannot find any trace of the virus on my machine.In addition, my ISP uses a virus scanner, I use an AV thatis updated daily, and my firewall did not log anythingususual. This is especially insidious, since the personwho might actually be spreading the virus would remainunaware that he is doing so. Larry Blan --------------2B431E2F1D7B1D0CEE1A49F6 The Duke Univ. email server has a virus checker that has twice (in the lblan@provide.net wrote:An update on my virus problem. I have been unableto detect I found the following at:http://www3.ca.com/solutions/collateral.asp?CT=65&ID=1705"Klez.H may use address 'spoofing' to make the e-mail it This may not be the problem here, but I rather suspect it Larry Blan --------------2B431E2F1D7B1D0CEE1A49F6-- from horsesho@ptd.net Tue Apr 30 06:51:17 2002 g3UBpH400306 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:51:17 - by uid 50002 with qmail-scanner-1.10 (uvscan: v4.1.60/v4199. .Clear:0. Processed in 0.72706 secs); 30 Apr 2002 11:51:16 -0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011019 Netscape6/6.2 Subject: Heddon (folsom) ferrule Hi List, I am looking for the male tip ferrule to repair a Folsom (Heddon made) rod I own. The ferrule is different than the usual Heddon ferrule. The male slide diameter is .1755" and the male slide length is .975" with a shoulder length .485 +or-. The slide length is longer then youir standard Heddon issue. If you have some old stock or old tips stashed away maybe someone can find time to check. Thanks, Marty from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Tue Apr 30 07:26:37 2002 g3UCQb401515 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:26:37 - g3UCQRtx006430 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:26:27 - Subject: Twister Pics Hi all, One of my buds sent me a series of pictures of the twister that roared through here two days ago. I've put them in a zip file, and can send it to anyone who's interested. The pictures were taken from the Maryland Route 301 bridge that connects Southern Maryland to Virginia, which is about 8 miles from where the twister touched down in La Plata. They show the twister as it crosses the Potomac River. This thing is just huge! If you're interested, send me your email address. Mark from cezeb@arnet.com.ar Tue Apr 30 07:36:10 2002 g3UCa9402047 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:36:09 - 0000 Subject: Re: Stress Charts Excuse that I write him in Spanish. If you have a lot of interest in =this topic, tell me and I will try to help him. Las Stress Charts es algo que heredamos de Garrison sin que nadie pueda =explicar realmente qu=E9 hacia =E9l con ellas. Ellas son una =suposicion del estado tensional de una ca=F1a luego de cargarla con los =pesos propios y de la linea. Adem=E1s =E9l estimaba una carga adicional = Solo podemos hacer comparaciones de las Stress Charts de distintas =ca=F1as, pero siempre usaremos mas la experiencia en la construcci=F3n = Tambien usaremos nuestra experiencia al hacer comparaciones con los = Garrison hizo simplificaciones est=E1ticas de un fen=F3meno que es = Usted puece leer sobre los Stiffness Profile de Don Phillips y tambien = La Natural Frecuency of Vibration es el valor mas cercano a la acci=F3n =de una ca=F1a. Lamentablemente no hay muchos estudios sobre este tema = C=E9sar Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 8:31 PMSubject: Stress Charts Good evening everyone, Being somewhat new to the craft of rodbuilding, I have taken it upon =myself to try to understand fly rod stress charts. Now, not being an =engineer, frankly, they are 'stressing' me out. Please exuse the punn =but it has been a long day. If any one can lend advice in this matter =it would be greatly apreciated. ie: what a slow, medium, or fast action =rod stress curve looks like, what a slight kick upwards in a stress =curve indicates etc. Or if someone can point me in the right direction =as far as understanding them (web sites and the such) it would be =greatly apreciated. ThanksRobert = Spanish. If you have a lot of interest in this topic, tell me and I will = help him. = ellas. Ellas son una suposicion del estado tensional de una ca=F1a luego = cargarla con los pesos propios y de la linea. Adem=E1s =E9l estimaba una = podemos hacer comparaciones de las Stress Charts de distintas ca=F1as, = siempre usaremos mas la experiencia en la construcci=F3n de ca=F1as que = = comparaciones con los di=E1metros de distintas = Garrison hizo simplificaciones est=E1ticas de un fen=F3meno que es = Phillips y tambien sobre los trabajos de Natural Frecuency of Vibration = cercano a la acci=F3n de una ca=F1a. Lamentablemente no hay muchos = C=E9sar ----- Original Message ----- Cristant Sent: Monday, April 29, 2002 = PMSubject: Stress Charts Good evening everyone, Being somewhat new to the craft of = have taken it upon myself to try to understand fly rod stress = Now, not being an engineer, frankly, they are 'stressing' me = this matter it would be greatly apreciated. ie: what a slow, medium, = action rod stress curve looks like, what a slight kick upwards in a = as far as understanding them (web sites and the such) it would be = apreciated. ThanksRobert from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 30 07:48:51 2002 g3UCmo402610 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 07:48:50 -0500 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:48:35 -0400 Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:48:35 -0400 Subject: Lie Nielson #2 Don - I just got one too. I like mine a lot, it is a very serious plane. Your mittsare probably a bit bigger than mine. I can get my middle, ring and littlefingers around the handle and sort of let my thumb and index fingers curlaround the blade. I can use the plane with one or two hands. If worse comes to worse, you could probably rig up a small extension to movethe handle back an inch or two. I would not give up on the tool, it's really nice. I spent several hours last weekend trying to tune my UK Stanley #3 with ahock blade to get it to cut as well as the LN. It's really very good, but I can'ttruly match LN. There is no substitute for mass and rigidity. No financialinterest etc, but LN makes a great product. from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 30 08:00:27 2002 g3UD0P403167 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:00:25 -0500 Subject: Re: LN # 2 Hi Don,it's not actually a plane but a scraper. The bevel needs to be facing the knob meaning the flat of the edge is facing forward.To use you hold it with the knob in the palm of your hand, thumb and second finger in the milled grooves along the sides, index finger over the top of the iron and push.The iron needs to be sharpened just like a plane and I'd suggest not adjusting the angle until you mess with it a bit.The depth is adjusted by placing a sheet of paper under the front end, loosening the loosener, allow the iron to drop then tighten and see how it goes.Adjust the depth until it scrapes smoke thin shavings without chattering.That's all this is really designed to do but it does it so well. It really does make a dif in the end result of the glue lines. Tony At 05:14 AM 4/30/02 -0600, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Need some help. Ordered a # 2 and it arrived last night. How in the devil do you hold it? Wrapped my hand every which way around it and still I either strike my fingers on the blade adjustment, the butt of my hand hangs over the end or my fingers are laying along the blade.Is this a toy or a serious plane? Would expect that it should cut wood if I can just figure it out. regards, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html > /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 30 08:02:33 2002 g3UD2V403526 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:02:31 -0500 Subject: Re: LN # 2 Sorry,I should read these damn things better. Obviously I was going on about the scraper but it's all true for that anyhow [:-)] Tony Hi Don,it's not actually a plane but a scraper. The bevel needs to be facing the knob meaning the flat of the edge is facing forward.To use you hold it with the knob in the palm of your hand, thumb and second finger in the milled grooves along the sides, index finger over the top of the iron and push.The iron needs to be sharpened just like a plane and I'd suggest not adjusting the angle until you mess with it a bit.The depth is adjusted by placing a sheet of paper under the front end, loosening the loosener, allow the iron to drop then tighten and see how it goes.Adjust the depth until it scrapes smoke thin shavings without chattering.That's all this is really designed to do but it does it so well. It really does make a dif in the end result of the glue lines. Tony At 05:14 AM 4/30/02 -0600, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys/Gals, Need some help. Ordered a # 2 and it arrived last night. How in the devil do you hold it? Wrapped my hand every which way around it and still I either strike my fingers on the blade adjustment, the butt of my hand hangs over the end or my fingers are laying along the blade.Is this a toy or a serious plane? Would expect that it should cut wood if I can just figure it out. regards, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html > /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from Jkvseafood@aol.com Tue Apr 30 08:10:49 2002 g3UDAn403979 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:10:49 - Subject: Re: Virus i received that file today and deleted it. there are 2 items in it. be careful! john from dpvbkjs@tdstelme.net Tue Apr 30 08:11:06 2002 g3UDB5404028 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:11:05 -0500 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:11:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Lie Nielson #2 LN # 2 users, Is anyone having these planes "grooved" ? Also what are the tradeoffsbetween the #2 and #3. I was at LN a week or so ago and the #3 looked likeit may be easier to hold. David Don - I just got one too. I like mine a lot, it is a very serious plane. Yourmitts are probably a bit bigger than mine. I can get my middle, ring and littlefingers around the handle and sort of let my thumb and index fingers curlaround the blade. I can use the plane with one or two hands. If worse comes to worse, you could probably rig up a small extension tomove the handle back an inch or two. I would not give up on the tool, it'sreally nice. I spent several hours last weekend trying to tune my UK Stanley #3 with ahock blade to get it to cut as well as the LN. It's really very good, but I can'ttruly match LN. There is no substitute for mass and rigidity. No financialinterest etc, but LN makes a great product. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Apr 30 08:13:31 2002 g3UDDU404529 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:13:30 - Subject: Re: Stress Charts Robert, We had lively discussions of this topic last July, August-September,and December. I think we are disinclined to launch into it again.You should check the list archives for those months. Start by reading Darryl Hayashida's simple description of how to readstress curve charts. Its athttp://www.uwm.edu/cgi- bin/stetzer/search2.pl/rm9710.461in the archives.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 29 Apr 2002, Robert Cristant wrote: Good evening everyone, Being somewhat new to the craft of rodbuilding, I have taken it uponmyself to try to understand fly rod stress charts. Now, not being anengineer, frankly, they are 'stressing' me out. Please exuse the punn but ithas been a long day. If any one can lend advice in this matter it would begreatly apreciated. ie: what a slow, medium, or fast action rod stress curvelooks like, what a slight kick upwards in a stress curve indicates etc. Or ifsomeone can point me in the right direction as far as understanding them(web sites and the such) it would be greatly apreciated. ThanksRobert from bob@downandacross.com Tue Apr 30 08:17:49 2002 g3UDHl404908 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:17:48 -0500 Subject: RE: LN # 2 Don:I grip it with my index and middle fingers and push with my palm. I hadindicated in my previous post on the subject that I have pretty tiny hands.I think that it is just about right for me. I hold the strip with the lefthand and plane with the right...no clamps. It cuts smoothly enough that Ican hold the strip with little pressure.If you have stubby fingers it may be a tight fit. I wonder if you couldadjust the blade so that the knob is farther in and away from the handle.It is definiteky a serious plane. I love mine, although I had it initializedwhen I ordered it from Woodcraft. That is some ugly engraving for sure.WIshI had not done it, worst $3 I have ever spent.Best regards,Bob-----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AndersenSent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:15 AM Subject: LN # 2 Guys/Gals, Need some help. Ordered a # 2 and it arrived last night. How in the devildo you hold it? Wrapped my hand every which way around it and still I eitherstrike my fingers on the blade adjustment, the butt of my hand hangs overthe end or my fingers are laying along the blade.Is this a toy or a serious plane? Would expect that it should cut wood ifI can just figure it out. regards, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html Don: with my index and middle fingers and push with my palm. I had indicated = previous post on the subject that I have pretty tiny hands. I think that = just about right for me. I hold the strip with the left hand and plane = right...no clamps. It cuts smoothly enough that I can hold the strip = pressure. stubby fingers it may be a tight fit. I wonder if you could adjust the = that the knob is farther in and away from the handle. = definiteky a serious plane. I love mine, although I had it initialized = ordered it from Woodcraft. That is some ugly engraving for sure. WIsh I = done it, worst $3 I have ever spent. regards,Bob & = AndersenSent: Tuesday, April 30, 2002 7:15 2Guys/Gals,Need some help. Ordered a# 2 = arrived last night. How in the devil do you hold it? Wrapped my hand = adjustment, the butt of my hand hangs over the end or my fingers are = along the blade.Is this a toy or a serious plane? Would expect = from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Tue Apr 30 08:26:33 2002 g3UDQW405468 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:26:33 - GAA10609 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:24:46 - GAA09446 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:26:31 - g3UDQwh09482 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:26:58 - (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 06:26:30 -0700 Subject: Corbett lake Just got back from Corbett lake gathering and had a chance to see the newJWelectric mill in operation. One pass and each strip was ready to glue upwith the strip being only 1000 off at each 5" interval. Have no interestand fact have never even talked to the man. Got a chance to cast all therods from the grand experiment and was blown away at the differencesbetweenall the makers using the same taper, no wonder we end up with differentrodswhen we follow the old tapers. The fastest was a 5 stripper that castbeautiful. We came to a conclusion, that is some of us, that we shouldeither subtract 3 thousands for glue line when w plane the taper or sand 3thousands off, like milward does, off the finished rod to end up at thetaper we were shooting for. Beautiful rods, great makers and outstandingwhiskey. Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Tue Apr 30 09:21:14 2002 g3UELD409241 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 09:21:13 - g3UEL8tx010630 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:21:08 - Subject: RE: Cedar and Mister Stanley Patrick, I can completely understand your vernacular.... I also ran my plane blade through the "Scary Sharp" system, and man oh man, I can honestly say, "It really works!" What an awesome edge it put on the blade. I can count nose hairs on the back side of the blade, just like in the article. Mark At 07:05 AM 4/30/2002 -0700, you wrote: aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrgggggggggggghhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!! Patrick W. CoffeyAOG Incident Repair PlanningPhone: 425-234-2901Fax: 425-237-0083M-2112 M/C 61-79 -----Original Message----- Sent: Thursday, April 25, 2002 7:07 AM Subject: Cedar and Mister Stanley Gents and Ladies, Last night in the shop was a Neanderthalithic experience.... A fewdaysago, I meandered over to one of our local Amish furniture makers, in searchof some pretty type wood to build my drying cabinet. A fruitful search ofhis wood rack coughed up four planks, 8 1/2' to 9 1/2' long, roughly 9inches wide and a full inch thick, of lustrous cedar wood. After watchingthe good Amish craftsman plane the boards down to 3/4"s of an inch thick,Iasked what the damages were. He digs out his trusty old wooden ruler tofigure out the board feet, and comes up with a total of 21 board feet (Thisafter tossing in a board for free, because a very pretty knot smack dab inthe middle of the board popped out and got crunched in the last planerpass), and tells me the total is $49.... Incredible!!!!!! We load the boards in the truck for the ride home, and I takeoff. Weather that day was sorta nasty, so I had all the windows closedwith the heater on. The boards lined up between the front seats andstretching to the back of the inside of the SUV started giving off awonderful perfume. There ain't nuthin' like fresh cut cedar. One of mybuddy's that I work with calls it "Aromatherapy" for the Neanderthal.... Got home that day, and started cutting the boards to size for thedryingcabinet. The bandsaw was making short work of ripping and cross cuttingthe boards to size (one of the advantages of having a 1" resaw blade on an18" bandsaw - it don't slow down for hell or high water....). After allthe pieces were cut to size, I called it a night. I wasn't able to get back out to the shop until yesterday afterwork. Iopened the garage door, and was again greeted by my Aromatherapy fromtheprevious cutting extravaganza (I'd gotten a little pooped, since it wasalmost midnight when I quit working the other night, and didn't sweep up orvacuum when I was done. Shame on me.... But then again, there was thatmarvelous little tincture in the air). I popped one of the planks in my new wood vise - thanks guys for alltheinfo on wood vises, by the way, I settled on a Record 7 1/2" wood vise, andit works beautiously!!!! After monkeying around with the wood vise, I drugout Mister Stanley #9 1/2, whispered the required mantras, and proceededtostart planing the edges. I wasn't happy with the way the curls were comingoff the board, so I starts ta do a little investigatin'. I rips the planeapart, and looks at the blade. I says to me self "Self, sumtin' ain'tcopascetic here. The blade was coated with what looked to be a cover coatof clear finish of some sort. So, I grabs me my can of Oops (available atyour local Wally World, or Kmart if their still around), and wipes down theblade, removing the clear coat. Inserts the blade back into the plane, andahhhh, muchy smoother, GI. Progress a little further, nicer curls comingoff, but now I notice that the curlys a re a bit tapered to oneside. Sooooo, I moves the little blade skew management device, and nowthecurlys are better. Buuuuuut, I looks down at the blade through the top ofthe plane, and notices that the blade angle ain't perpendicklar to themouth openin'. Scratchin' me head, I thinks a little more investigatin' isrequired. I pull the plane apart again, and start looking at the blade,using a square to check the angles. Nope, everything looks just duckythere. Okey Doke, must be something in the blade holdingarrangement. Played around with the frog, the blade skew alignment leverand the blade adjustor nut. Nope, everything hunky dory. So I pull offthe adjustable throat plate, and stare down the throat of the beast (YesVirginia, they will bite....). Aha, the veritable light bulb islit..... The angled ramp where the blade exits the body of the plane hasbeen machined, but not correctly! The angle from back to front on theplane is just fine, but the side to side cut is not parallel with thebottom of the plane. So, whilst the plane is still stripped of itsparticulate matter, I pull the board out from the vise, and secure theplane body in said vise, with a decent enough angle that I can see bothsides and still work on the ramp with a file. I get it filed nice andparallel (at least by the Mark 1 eyeball method), blow out all the metalswarf with an air hose, and proceed to reassemble the plane. Said planenow reassembled, I pop the plank back into the vise, set the plane to takea nice shallow cut, and proceed to make beoootyful music on them cedarplanks. The floor littered with aromatic cedar shavings (had visions ofdoggy beds, with the SWMBO sewing up covers. Nah, too much likehouseholdwork....), I shaved and shaved the boards to my own level ofperfection. Nirvanic. Neanderthalithic. I was in the zone...... Looked at the clock, and OH MY GOD! It's like 1:30 in themorning.... Igots to get up at 0500 hrs to go to work!!!!! Ah well, so I close up theshop, meander into the house, take off the old clothes and climb intobed. My wife rolls over and says, "What in the heck were you doing outthere until the wee hours of the morning?" I smiled and said, "It's a guything. Aaaarrrrrgggghhhhh, Arrrrrrggggghhhhh." Cheers,Mark from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 30 10:15:32 2002 g3UFFW412578 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:15:32 - helo=elmo.psp.pas.earthlink.net) id 172ZLn-00064H-00 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:15:31 -0700 by elmo.psp.pas.earthlink.net (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) id g3UFFVI09616 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:15:31 -0700 Subject: Plexiglas impregnation Well, after thinking about it for 2 or 3 years, I have decided to do thePlexiglas impregnation on a rod. It works really good with the inserts somaybe it will have some positive effects on the bamboo. I thought I wouldpost the process as I am basically lazy and would procrastinate if I waitheuntil I had finished. Everything below reflects some early experiments and isbased on the process I use for preparing reel seat inserts. Each strips needto be continuous with no glue joints. I.e. no nodeless strips! Some thoughts.There is a couple of questions to be answered along the way. One is how wellwill the Epon stick to the impregnated bamboo and if it doesn't can thePlexiglas be used as the glue. My first attempt will be to impregnate thestrips, plane and finish in the usual manner. One option is to finish plane thestrips, bind without glue and impregnate the blank. If the amount of retainedPlexiglas is sufficient, it should bridge the glue joints so that additional gluingwould be unnecessary. This is an experiment for farther down the road. This raises the question of how much Plexiglas should the bamboo retain. The amount that is retained in the article being impregnated can be keptquite small. This is accomplished by thinning (solvent to Plexiglas ratio) andvarying the method of impregnation. I intend to start with one; pressure. Byplacing the bamboo in a solution of Plexiglas and solvent in an enclosedchamber, the Plexiglas can be forced into the bamboo by using air pressure. I have used this method on some insert impregnation experiments and itworks. If this amount is insufficient, the ratio of Plexiglas to solvent can beincreased and/or a vacuum can be used in addition to pressure. The methodof using pressure alone is attractive as the Plexiglas solution is forced intothe bamboo while compressing the air within the bamboo. At 100 psi, the airis compressed to a very small volume. When the pressure is released, theair expands pushing the excess out of the bamboo. This leaves a thin coating!throughout the bamboo. The ratio of solvent to Plexiglas can be manipulatedto get the desired amount of retained Plexiglas. If a higher amount of retained Plexiglas is desired, a vacuum pump can beused. This is implemented in the same method as recharging an airconditioner after repair. The bamboo is placed in the chamber and a vacuumis drawn. After the material is out gassed enough, the Plexiglas solution isinjected into the chamber and a pressure is applied. After sufficient time taken out of the chamber. The impregnation chamber.The impregnation chamber is constructed of 1 1/4" galvanized pipe. Youmay want to use 1 1/2" if you intend on doing a whole rod at once. You needto decide what length before you ask the store to cut and thread it. Somestores, Lowes for one, carry some precut and threaded pieces. I have a 50"piece that I decided was to short for some applications so I use a couplingand one of several random "nipples" (short pieces of pipe threaded on bothends) to make up the length I want. This came about after I had purchased a50" piece of pipe and realized that if I made a 8' or longer rod, 50" is notquite long enough. Now purchase two galvanized end caps. One goes on each end of the pipe. Now drill a hole through the top of one end cap and thread it for a 1/4" airfitting and screw a 1/4" male quick disconnect fitting into the cap. Checkthe air fittings for compatibility. There are several different types of quickdisconnect fittings and they are incompatible with each other. Check whatyou use on your air compressor and get the same thing. If you don't have acompressor, Kmart has some real bargains on some small compressors rightnow. Impregnating the stripsTo prepare the strips for impregnation, you need a piece of 1/2" to 5/8"metal pipe or rod the same length or a little shorter than your strips. Youneed something to hold the strips under the impregnation solution and thepipe will do this plus providing a straight surface to hold the strips straightwhile being impregnated. To use this, arrange the strips with each stripparallel to the pipe with the enamel side contacting the metal pipe. Bind thestrips to the pipe while insuring the strips are as straight as possible. Thereis an old technician's trick that can be used here. By starting with a few halfhitches at one end of the strip, the string used (dental floss or dental tapecan be used here as well as most other string the same size or larger. If youhaven't seen this done, check some old electronics texts on shop techniques. In a pinch, I can probably scan a page from an old text . Now you should havethe strips for a blank laced (bound) to a pipe and ready for!impregnation. Make sure the galvanized pipe is clean inside. Acetone and MEK is a veryvolatile solvent and oil or similar product will be dissolved and added to thePlexiglas solution. Now screw the bottom on. Use some plumbers goo ortape to get a good seal. You don't want a leak here with 100 psi or you willhave Plexiglas all over your floor. Now set the pipe vertical with the open endup. Make a stand to hold it this way or strap it to a table leg like I do. Nowinsert the pipe laced strips into the pipe. Now pour the Plexiglas solution intothe pipe filling it until it completely covers the bamboo. Now screw on thetop. It is not as important to get a really good seal since nothing but air willleak at this end, Now hook it up to your compressor and run the pressure upto about 100 psi. Let it set for a while. How long is "a while". Truthfully, I don't know so I let it set for 24 hrs. After I have decided that is enough, I release the pressure, unscrew the topand remove the bamboo. A handy attachment to the air fitting is a valvefitting. There is a cheap one sold by Harbor Freight stores that claims to bea regulator. It is nothing but a leaky valve. Works great to slow the airrelease from the pipe when the quick release is disconnected. Making Plexiglas "syrup"The "syrup" is Plexiglas dissolved in acetone (or MEK). Plexiglas can bebought at Home Depot or other sources. Make sure to emphasize"Plexiglas". Some stores assume you mean clear plastic and will substituteLexan or other clear non glass products. They may or may not be soluble inacetone or MEK. It's difficult to identify the amount you need from 1/8"thick sheets but do your best and buy what you need. $10 to $12 is enoughto make a gallon or more. Break up or saw up the Plexiglas. You need a vessel to dissolve the Plexiglasin. A good place to start is a pint or quart fruit jar with a lid. Make sure it isglass! The Plexiglas comes with a sheet of protective plastic on each side ofthe Plexiglas. If You are going to break up the Plexiglas, leave the protectiveplastic on. If you are going to saw, take it off. If you decide to break it up.Wear leather gloves and use protective eye wear. The Plexiglas mimics glasswhen broken and breaking produces shards ever bit as sharp as glass. A flattop anvil and a small hammer work well. The hammer will produce "star"cracks in the plastic. The protective sheets hold most of the Plexiglastogether so it doesn't scatter to much. Most of the pieces can be collected sawdust. Wear protective eye wear. What size of pieces do you need; smallenough to fit in the jar. Jars are the preferred cont!ainer for dissolving the Plexiglas. Fill it about 2/3 full with Plexiglas piecesand cover with acetone (or MEK). Shake it several times a day; invert the jarto keep the Plexiglas from making a glob stuck to the bottom. If thishappens, just sit the Jar upside down and shake it often and the Plexiglas willdrip away. In 2 or three days you will have a "syrup" that looks like clearKayro syrup. Dilute and use. Determining ratio of Plexiglas to solvent. There are a couple of ways to dothis. First start with either two equal jars or a jar and a quart sizedmeasuring cup. Put a piece of tape on that will be the jar containing thePlexiglas marking where a quart is. Determine this before adding thePlexiglas. Now add the Plexiglas pieces. Now pour a quart of acetone (MEK)into either a measuring cup or a second jar that also has a 1 quart mark. Now add acetone to the Plexiglas containing jar until the quart mark isreached. Now measure the amount of acetone (MEK) remaining. This is thevolume of the Plexiglas. One quart minus the Plexiglas is the amount ofsolvent by volume. Now keep track of how much solvent you use to diluteand you will always know the ratio. Second method. If you forget to measure, there is still an out. This is easyif you reload ammunition. You will already have a scale for measuring weightaccurately. Now you need a small, light container to hold a sample of thePlexiglas solution. This can be the syrup or any dilution along the way or thefinal solution. You can fold a piece of aluminum foil to make a smallcontainer. If you are using a reloading scale, it must fit in the measuringpan. Now add enough Plexiglas solution to produce a reading of about 1/2 to2/3 the maximum on the scale. Better to err on the high side rather thanthe low side. Record the weight of the container before adding the Plexiglassolution and after the Plexiglas solution has been added. Now set thecontainer of solution where it can evaporate. Pick a place where the vaporswill not accumulate. Not a good idea to breathe to much solvent fumes. In aweak or more, re-measure the container. It now contains only Plexiglas inthe!container. Compare the weight of the container before evaporation andafter evaporation. The amount of solvent by weight is the total weight ofthe container before evaporation minus the total weight after evaporation. The weight of the Plexiglas is the total weight of the evaporated containerminus the weight of the container alone. The ratio of the solvent to Plexiglasin this case is by weight. Containers. It is to your benefit to dissolve the Plexiglas in a glass containerwith a wide mouth that can be closed with a screw on lid. You will want toshake and invert the contents while it is dissolving. Using this method youshould be finished in 2 or 3 days. I used a 3 lb potato can once. It had a vinyllid that I protected with a sheet of aluminum foil. I had to stir it because Icouldn't shake or invert the container. It took over two weeks to get all thePlexiglas dissolved. I will post the results as I go along. I am drying and heat treating the stripsthis weekend. I will try and get the impregnation done sometime thisweekend or next week. I have the strips sitting in a PVC pipe with desiccant. This weekend I will remove them and heat treat and then impregnate. Regards,OnisK5vkq@ix.netcom.com from Harris.James@ev.state.az.us Tue Apr 30 10:19:32 2002 g3UFJV413107 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:19:31 -0500 g3UFD2S04963 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:13:02 -0700 2002 -0700 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 08:19:20 -0700 Subject: PL-Polyurathane Glue g3UFJV413111 Guys, FYI - Last night I tried the less expensive Polyurethane Glue commonly foundat Home Depot and many other stores. It's called "PL- Polyurethane" andabout half the price of Gorilla glue. I made the following observations. There was very little foaming. Actually no foaming was observed until thismorning and that was in some of the thicker glue left on the string. I did notdampen the strips before applying the glue but I did spray the left over glueon the newspaper with water and did not observe any foaming there either. This is in stark contrast to my experience with Gorilla Glue, which foams upso fast that I can barely get the strips through the binder. I understand from Adam Vigil however, that his Gorilla Glue did not foam like mine, sothere may be some variations in the formula from batch to batch coming from the factory. PL had a significantly longer working time than Gorilla. The glue was appliedat 7pm and remained sticky until past my bed time. The glue was set hard inthe morning. I don't know the reason why, but PL seemed to be a lot less messy in thebinder and seemed easyer to clean up. Perhaps the longer working time hadsomething to do with this. The strips glued up nice and tight with no visible glue lines or dry joints andthis morning the sections were good and stiff. Temps last night were in theLow 70's. So far, I'm fairly impressed. I'll pull the string off tonight and see how itscrapes and sands. Any comments on PL out there? JimH from lblan@provide.net Tue Apr 30 10:26:24 2002 g3UFQO413884 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:26:24 - with HTTP id 19671324 for ; Tue, 30 Apr2002 11:26:24 -0400 Subject: Virus Update Larry Blan from earsdws@duke.edu Tue Apr 30 10:27:48 2002 g3UFRl414212 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:27:47 -0500 g3UFRYB23697; Organization: Hearing Research Laboratories, Div. of Otolaryngology-Head andNeck Surgery, Subject: Re: PL-Polyurathane Glue I use Gorilla glue (and the Titebond PU) for everything around the house(including gluing loose bricks on the stairs and a cement birdbath that brokein half - still holding water, as new, after 1 year). I do not see the instantfoaming you report with either. I bind my rods by hand and have plenty oftime, though I assume it takes me longer than the binder gizmo guys. It seems that even mediocre quality control would prevent the batch-to- batch variation notion, but would expect different working times acrossformulations. I love the stuff, dws. James Harris wrote: Guys, FYI - Last night I tried the less expensive Polyurethane Glue commonlyfound at Home Depot and many other stores. It's called "PL- Polyurethane"and about half the price of Gorilla glue. I made the following observations. There was very little foaming. Actually no foaming was observed until thismorning and that was in some of the thicker glue left on the string. I did notdampen the strips before applying the glue but I did spray the left over glueon the newspaper with water and did not observe any foaming there either. This is in stark contrast to my experience with Gorilla Glue, which foams upso fast that I can barely get the strips through the binder. I understand from Adam Vigil however, that his Gorilla Glue did not foam like mine, sothere may be some variations in the formula from batch to batch coming from the factory. PL had a significantly longer working time than Gorilla. The glue was appliedat 7pm and remained sticky until past my bed time. The glue was set hard inthe morning. I don't know the reason why, but PL seemed to be a lot less messy in thebinder and seemed easyer to clean up. Perhaps the longer working time hadsomething to do with this. The strips glued up nice and tight with no visible glue lines or dry joints andthis morning the sections were good and stiff. Temps last night were in theLow 70's. So far, I'm fairly impressed. I'll pull the string off tonight and see how itscrapes and sands.Any comments on PL out there? JimH from lblan@provide.net Tue Apr 30 10:29:35 2002 g3UFTY414504 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 10:29:34 - with HTTP id 19671728 for ; Tue, 30 Apr2002 11:29:34 -0400 Subject: Virus Update Sorry for the blank note. Webmail works a bit differentlythan my regular mail. Thanks for everyone's assistance with the virus. One last request... if anyone still has one of the infectedposts that came from me, please send me a copy. I want toexamine the headers in the note. Larry Blan from dmanders@telusplanet.net Tue Apr 30 14:28:04 2002 g3UJS3404136 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 14:28:04 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Subject: More on the LN #2 Guys, Thanx for the guidance and help. Have contacted the distributor in Canada [where I live} and he is sending along a # 3 for me to look @. Will return theother. And Tony, thanx for the info on scrapers. Was needed. regards, Don ffff,0000,0000http://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html from beadman@mac.com Tue Apr 30 17:58:18 2002 g3UMwI416378 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 17:58:18 - Tue, 30 Apr 2002 18:56:41 -0400 Subject: Non Rodmaking: HUBBLE'S NEW CAMERA... FILETIME=[4B562090:01C1F09A] X-Authentication-Warning: spinoza.public.hq.nasa.gov: majordom set sender to owner-press-release using -f From: NASANews@hq.nasa.govSubject: HUBBLE'S NEW CAMERA DELIVERS BREATHTAKING VIEWS OF THEUNIVERSESender: owner-press- release@lists.hq.nasa.gov ... HUBBLE'S NEW CAMERA DELIVERS BREATHTAKING VIEWS OF THEUNIVERSE "Remarkable, breathtaking" are words jubilantastronomers are using to describe the first four views of theuniverse taken by the Hubble Space Telescope's new AdvancedCamera for Surveys, released by NASA today. ... Electronic image files, animation and additional informationare available on the Internet at:http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/pr/2002/11http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/latest.htmlhttp://oposite.stsci.edu/publinfo/pictures.htmlandhttp://hubblesite.org/go/news and if those links are too busy, try this one: and click on "News and Views" Claude from Grnmtrds@aol.com Tue Apr 30 19:55:45 2002 g410ti412400 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 19:55:44 - for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 20:55:33 - Subject: thread color Guys, I just acquired a Leonard 3/2. I am trying to make it usable and look as original as I can. The wraps are dark brown or maroon and so are the intermediates. I think! Does anyone have an idea as to what color and what I should wrap it with? Also I need a female ferrule for the mid section. Are there any replacement ferrules that would look like original equipment and where might I get that? Having fun,Jim/Vermont from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Tue Apr 30 22:56:00 2002 g413u0409795 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 22:56:00 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 172lA7-0007XL-00; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:52:16 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: Virus Update Apparently, I have not received any of the recent viruses, nor any of those over the past months. Could it be that they travel via Microsoft Outlook, and since I use Netscape instead of Explorer, the bullets miss me ? If so, it seems to be an easy way to avoid some of the problems. Comments? David W. Smith, Ph.D. wrote: The Duke Univ. email server has a virus checker that has twice (in the past 2 days) blocked emails from RODMAKERS from reaching me. Both were blocked because the Klez.H virus was detected. Good luck, dws. lblan@provide.net wrote: An update on my virus problem. I have been unable to detectany virus, despite using two different AV programs and 3programs designed to remove the virus. I found the following at:http://www3.ca.com/solutions/collateral.asp?CT=65&ID=1705 >> "Klez.H may use address 'spoofing' to make the e-mail itsends appear as if it has come from another machine. Ituses addresses that it locates in the infected system todisplay in the "From" line of the e-mail." This may not be the problem here, but I rather suspect itsince I cannot find any trace of the virus on my machine.In addition, my ISP uses a virus scanner, I use an AV thatis updated daily, and my firewall did not log anythingususual. This is especially insidious, since the personwho might actually be spreading the virus would remainunaware that he is doing so. Larry Blan from avyoung@iinet.net.au Tue Apr 30 23:41:23 2002 g414fK412220 for ; Tue, 30 Apr 2002 23:41:21 -0500 Subject: Re: More on the LN #2 Don,I guess it wasn't a total waste then [:-)] Tony At 01:26 PM 4/30/02 -0600, Don & Sandy Andersen wrote: Guys, Thanx for the guidance and help. Have contacted the distributor in Canada [ where I live} and he is sending along a # 3 for me to look @. Will return the other. And Tony, thanx for the info on scrapers. Was needed. regards, Donhttp://www.telusplanet.net/public/dmanders/index.html > /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now