from bhoy551@earthlink.net Fri Apr 19 11:24:30 2002 g3JGOT415256 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:24:29 -0500 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 12:24:25 -0400 , Subject: RE: Four string binder FILETIME=[AB87F0E0:01C1E7BE] g3JGOT415257 I noticed that Harry Boyd's howto article on rodbuilding has a nice picture of a hybrid smithwick/four string binder. It uses a smithwick drive system to run a the two binder wheels. Eliminates the need for a drive belt. I've been meaning to ask him about it. I can't remember the URL, but maybeHarry will jump in here. Bill . At 10:28 AM 4/19/2002 -0500, Lamberson, William R. wrote: "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w = "urn:schemas- microsoft-com:office:word">I put a motor from a garage sale sewing machine on my Smithwick binder. The on/off and speed is controlled with a foot pedal thus allows me to have both hands free for holding the section while binding. I took the tensioner from the sewing machine as well. The total cost of the binder was less than $20, a bit of copper tubing, a pulley, and the sewing machine. Bill Lamberson-----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:23 AM Subject: Sv: Four string binder Make a Smithwick binder - low tech, low cost, high efficiency regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message -----From: Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:36 PMSubject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders. Better than Garrison Binder? Don t bother? Are they too hard to use? All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from aebersold@ou.edu Fri Apr 19 11:35:11 2002 g3JGZB416325 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:35:11 -0500 id ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 11:35:10 -0500 LambersonW@missouri.edu,carstenjorgensen@mail.dk, rcristant@isgtransport.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Four string binder g3JGZB416326 I think last week someone posted a URL for a commercial version of asmithwick/four string with foot pedal and motor. I didn't go to the site,lost the URL and therefore can't quote a price. Anyone still have the URL?-d -----Original Message----- rcristant@isgtransport.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Four string binder I noticed that Harry Boyd's howto article on rodbuilding has a nice picture of a hybrid smithwick/four string binder. It uses a smithwick drive system to run a the two binder wheels. Eliminates the need for a drive belt. I've been meaning to ask him about it. I can't remember the URL, but maybeHarry will jump in here. Bill . At 10:28 AM 4/19/2002 -0500, Lamberson, William R. wrote: "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" xmlns:w ="urn:schemas- microsoft-com:office:word">I put a motor from a garage sale sewing machine on my Smithwick binder. The on/off and speed is controlled with a foot pedal thus allows me to have both hands free for holding the section while binding. I took the tensioner from the sewing machine as well. The total cost of the binder was less than $20, a bit of copper tubing, a pulley, and the sewing machine. Bill Lamberson-----Original Message----- Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 10:23 AM Subject: Sv: Four string binder Make a Smithwick binder - low tech, low cost, high efficiency regards, Carsten Jorgensen ----- Original Message -----From: Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 4:36 PMSubject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four stringbinders. Better than Garrison Binder? Don t bother? Are they too hard to use? All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 19 13:50:37 2002 g3JIob423128 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:50:37 -0500 g3JIoUtx024382 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:50:31 -0400 Subject: Payne 98 and ferrules All, I was looking over the taper archives on the canerod site, and wastrying to guesstimate the correct ferrule size for this rod. Since it's a 7' rod, half the length would be 42". The dimensions at the 40" station is .171, and the dimension at the 45" station is .194. Doing a little fuzzy math, I figured the 42" station would have a dimension of .1802. An 11/64's ferrule would fit over a dimension of .1719, while a 12/64's ferrule would fit over a dimension of .1875 (rounded). Did I figure something wrong, such as the placement of the ferrule, or if not, which ferrule would I use, and at what dimension would I put it? Thanks,Mark from Jkvseafood@aol.com Fri Apr 19 14:42:18 2002 g3JJgH426350 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:42:17 -0500 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:42:07 - Subject: where is everyone? i have stopped receiving mail from list? whats up? john from eamon_lee@hotmail.com Fri Apr 19 15:25:51 2002 g3JKPp428478 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:25:51 -0500 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 13:25:45 -0700 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:25:45 GMT Subject: Quad making questions FILETIME=[62B404E0:01C1E7E0] Folks-Ready to go on the quads, I think. Got my forms, modified my Medved style beveller to cut 90's, have appropriate router bits to make jigs, etc..but I do have a couple of questions. How do I set my forms? I have a new 90* point for the depth guage, but I didn't even think about setting the depth!? Where can I find some tapers of poven quads? And, did someone come upwith an accurate convrsion factor for altering hex tapers? .92 was it? Anything else you folks can offer would be much appreciated. Can't wait to start, just looking for some insight before I do. TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from rextutor@yahoo.com Fri Apr 19 15:33:55 2002 g3JKXr429063 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:33:53 -0500 19 Apr 2002 13:33:37 PDT Subject: Re: Quad making questions I just restored an Edwards quatrate 35 - 8 ft 5 wt -really great rod. I took the tapers on points andflats.--- Eamon Lee wrote: Folks-Ready to go on the quads, I think. Got my forms,modified my Medved style beveller to cut 90's, have appropriate router bitsto make jigs, etc..but I do have a couple of questions. How do I set my forms? I have a new 90* point forthe depth guage, but I didn't even think about setting the depth!? Where can I find some tapers of poven quads? And,did someone come up with an accurate convrsion factor for altering hextapers? .92 was it? Anything else you folks can offer would be muchappreciated. Can't wait to start, just looking for some insight before I do. TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________ Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger:http://messenger.msn.com __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Fri Apr 19 15:41:04 2002 g3JKf3429674 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:41:03 - Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:41:01 +0100 Subject: Re: Quad making questions The conversion factor is usually takem as Hex 'flat to flat'x 0.93 =Quad 'flat to flat'........some people use 0.92 but what theheck........It's a square world.........Paul Eamon Lee wrote: Folks-Ready to go on the quads, I think. Got my forms, modified my Medved stylebeveller to cut 90's, have appropriate router bits to make jigs, etc..but Ido have a couple of questions. How do I set my forms? I have a new 90* point for the depth guage, but Ididn't even think about setting the depth!? Where can I find some tapers of poven quads? And, did someone come upwithan accurate convrsion factor for altering hex tapers? .92 was it? Anything else you folks can offer would be much appreciated. Can't wait tostart, just looking for some insight before I do. TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from flytyr@southshore.com Fri Apr 19 15:43:14 2002 g3JKhD429980 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:43:13 -0500 g3JKhAO28134; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 15:43:10 -0500 Subject: Re: where is everyone? I got you here.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jkvseafood@aol.com wrote: i have stopped receiving mail from list? whats up? john from sats@gte.net Fri Apr 19 16:10:45 2002 g3JLAi401664 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:10:44 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.05 201-253-122-122-105-20011231) with ;Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:10:39 -0500 Subject: Re: PETA, Petition to revoke tax exempt status,, PETA is like the radical IRA side of the animal welfare movement. Own a pet? In PETA's eyes you're a slave owner...---------------------------- Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Florida(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMeet me at http://home1.gte.net/sats from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 19 16:26:37 2002 g3JLQa402572 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:26:36 -0500 Subject: RE: Quad making questions Eamon:1. How do you like the forms?2. I use a point tapered to 45* and I use the .707 factor. Once I get mytaper, I multiply the quad taper by that to get the proper figures for theforms. I have a chart that will tell you the conversion from tips as smallas .050 to butts around .350 (way too big for most quads!)Let me know if you (or anyone else) wants it.My best advice is to use the available Edwards tapers to start. Then work from there to get what you want. I recommend the Irgens article from THEBEST OF THE PLANING FORM.Bob PS., I never sent you the tapers I have? Shame on me. -----Original Message----- Subject: Quad making questions Folks-Ready to go on the quads, I think. Got my forms, modified my Medved stylebeveller to cut 90's, have appropriate router bits to make jigs, etc..but Ido have a couple of questions. How do I set my forms? I have a new 90* point for the depth guage, but Ididn't even think about setting the depth!? Where can I find some tapers of poven quads? And, did someone come upwithan accurate convrsion factor for altering hex tapers? .92 was it? Anything else you folks can offer would be much appreciated. Can't wait tostart, just looking for some insight before I do. TIA,Eamon _________________________________________________________________Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: http://messenger.msn.com from Dennishigham@cs.com Fri Apr 19 16:29:29 2002 g3JLTS402880 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 16:29:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Mark,Hal Bacon should jump in here... the original Payne 98 had a step down ferrule. The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You can averagethe #'s out and use a 12/64 ferrule. 11/64th cuts a little too much bamboo off IMHO. Al Medved and I have talked about this and Al has made a couple of 98's with 12/64 ferrules that cast really well. Dennis Mark, down ferrule. The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You canaverage the #'s out and use a 12/64 ferrule. 11/64th cuts a little too much made a couple of 98's with 12/64 ferrules that cast really well. Dennis from bob@mcelvain.org Fri Apr 19 17:16:34 2002 g3JMGX405069 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:16:33 -0500 Apr 2002 16:17:40 -0600 MDT Subject: New Lathe The Homier truck show was recently in town and I bought one of their 7x12lathes. Basically the same as the Harbor Freight 7x10 but with a longerbed. I also purchased a 4-jaw chuck from Harbor Freight. The spindle ofthe Homier and their 3-jaw chuck has 3 mounting holes, the 4-jaw chuck has4 holes. Homier doesn't sell accessories like 4-jaw chucks. Both chucksrely on the spindle flange mating with a receiving cutout on the chuck forconcentricity, the mounting holes on the spindle flange are clearance andaccuracy is not important. The YAHOO mini-lathe group talks about using transfer studs to mark theflange and then drilling three additional holes with a hand drill. Theyalso talk about flange being hard to drill and eating drill bits? I guessthey drill the flange with a hand drill? A template that would hang on the spindle flange and allow me center punchthe three new holes seems more reasonable but I have never seen a"template" discussed. Does anyone have any ideas. Thanks in advance. Bob McElvain from rextutor@yahoo.com Fri Apr 19 17:59:25 2002 g3JMxO406825 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 17:59:24 -0500 19 Apr 2002 15:59:19 PDT Subject: Re: where is everyone? I think fishing season started ? --- Tony Spezio wrote: I got you here.Tony FlyTyr@southshore.com Jkvseafood@aol.com wrote: i have stopped receiving mail from list? whats up? john __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTaxhttp://taxes.yahoo.com/ from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 19 19:16:57 2002 g3K0Gu408587 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:16:57 -0500 g3K0Gptx001980 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:16:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Dennis, out there had built one using a non-stepdown ferrule, and could confirmthe 12/64 size.MarkAt 05:27 PM 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote:Mark, down ferrule. The butt measured .190 at the ferrule and .173 . You canaverage the #'s out and use a 12/64 ferrule. 11/64th cuts a little too has made a couple of 98's with 12/64 ferrules that cast really well. Dennis from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 19 19:22:12 2002 g3K0MB408894 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:22:11 -0500 g3K0M5tx002087 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:22:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Hi Bob, Yup, I have a lathe. Do they make a reamer that sizes out to 11.5/64ths...... ;^} Just kidding. I'd thought about making my own ferrules, but have never done it before. I'll dig out the Power Fibers issue that details turning ferrules out of round stock. Anybody have a good place to buy NS round stock? Thanks,Mark At 05:05 PM 4/19/02 -0500, you wrote: Mark,Got a lathe? If so, then cut a set half way in between... a set of11.5/64ths ferrules would fit in right at .180... That way you won't betaking too much off the butt nor will you be leaving too much on the flats.The other option is to make a set of stepdowns so that the ID of the femalefits the butt section and the ID of the male fits the tip section. In otherwords, make a set of step down 12's but bore the female 12 and the male11.Leave the ferrule wall on the female the full thickness, and the maleferrule will have a little thicker than normal wall.You should have a hair more diameter to work with than you figured.Your actual ferrule cut should be at 42 3/8" for a standard ferrule with a3/4" male to female fit. can probably with that slope, figure on a coupleof more thousands.R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com----- Original Message -----From: "Mark Wendt" Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 1:50 PMSubject: Payne 98 and ferrules All, I was looking over the taper archives on the canerod site, and was tryingto guesstimate the correct ferrule size for this rod. Since it's a 7' rod, half the length would be 42". The dimensions at the 40" station is .171,and the dimension at the 45" station is .194. Doing a little fuzzy math, I figured the 42" station would have a dimension of .1802. An 11/64'sferrule would fit over a dimension of .1719, while a 12/64's ferrule wouldfit over a dimension of .1875 (rounded). Did I figure something wrong,such as the placement of the ferrule, or if not, which ferrule would I use, and at what dimension would I put it? Thanks,Mark from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Fri Apr 19 19:32:52 2002 g3K0Wp409294 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:32:51 -0500 g3K0Wktx002330 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:32:47 -0400 Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules All, Thanks for pointing me in the right direction. The Final Answer IS: 12/64ths - Dah Dah Dah Daaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! (that was supposed to be a royal trumpet call....) Mark At 07:37 PM 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote: Go with a #12 ferrule. Marty Mark Wendt wrote: All, I was looking over the taper archives on the canerod site, and was trying to guesstimate the correct ferrule size for this rod. Since it's a 7' rod, half the length would be 42". The dimensions at the 40" station is .171, and the dimension at the 45" station is .194.Doing a little fuzzy math, I figured the 42" station would have a dimension of .1802. An 11/64's ferrule would fit over a dimension of .1719, while a 12/64's ferrule would fit over a dimension of .1875 (rounded). Did I figure something wrong, such as the placement of the ferrule, or if not, which ferrule would I use, and at what dimension would I put it? Thanks,Mark from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Fri Apr 19 19:55:53 2002 g3K0tp409957 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:55:52 -0500 id g3K0tnO27472; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:55:49 +0900 (JST) id JAA16677; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:55:48 +0900 (JST) "Rodmakers" Subject: Tamegi, Japanese straightening tool Jason, et al So, what I want more about are those Tameki straightening tools. Jason On 4/18/02 2:12 PM, "chad wigham" wrote: http://homepage1.nifty.com/yukihiro-rod/englishindex.html Tamegi or Tameki is a wood bar which has groove(s) near the end.Tame=straightening, ki or gi=wood, in Japanese. Usually we pronounce it asTamegi. Tamegi is not a kind of automatic straightening tool like clothes iron,but the tool which is widely used in making a round non-splited cane rod,Wasao (means Japanese rod). the groove ofof Tamegi, and un-bend it by leverging by Tamegi. The groove is put 45 (orless) degrees against theside of the wood bar. So you have only to shake (glasp) the rod and Tamegitogether to lever.I am also using Tamegi to straightening hex rod. To make, prepare 1"x1"x1' wood bar and make a 45 degree groove on it, nearto the end like below;The groove's depth is half the block. Though this is not the same to realTamegi but it is easierto use for hex blank from my experience._____| ||//||/ || || | for the right handed Heating system of Japanese rod making is usually charcoal heat and its ultrared beam from the burned charcoal. Two blocks on charcoal oven is to focus the heatcoming out ofthe oven. The reason why we use this kind of heating system, is that all ofJapanesebamboos are very oily or juicy. We need wipe out such oil repeatedly whileheating at initial stage. The pictures on his web almost come from Japaneserod making system. Round files are used to shave the inside of round canestomake the wall thickness thinner. I am glad to bring and show you Tamegi at Grayrock as I join the gatheringthis June. Max ========================================Max Satoh - Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod Makerhttp://maxrod.tripod.comMax Rod Craft - Online Shophttp://m-r- c.tripod.com======================================== from sfario@hotmail.com Fri Apr 19 20:10:12 2002 g3K1AB410446 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:10:11 -0500 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 18:10:02 -0700 Subject: Wrapping FILETIME=[1980D320:01C1E808] This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides =beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A This is probably a dumb question but = tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than = nylon?ThanksBob A from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 19 20:14:58 2002 g3K1Ev411038 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:14:57 -0500 Subject: Quad Info Posted Hi Ron and list:I posted the tapers and the chart to the website so that I would not have tosend attachments to anyone and cause trouble. If you woudl like a copy in MSWord, I will send that on your request. The tapers are only those that wereposted to the list or that were available on the web or submitted to PowerFibers. There are no living makers included who sent tapers to me inconfidence.The tapers are here: http://www.powerfibers.com/quadtapers.htmThe conversion chart is here: http://www.powerfibers.com/chart.htmNow, here is how the chart works. Take the full rod section diameter andlook it up on the chart. It will give you the planing form setting which ishalf the rod section times .707. I find this easier to use. I seem to thinkin terms of rod sections not planing form settings when I am ponderingtapers.You will notice that since I rounded off to 3 digits that one planing formsetting covers three section diameter readings. I know this, and I usuallyadd .0005 for the top number and subtract .0005 for the smallest. Solooking at the chart you see that a .058, .059, and 060 tip would have aplaning form setting of .021 (half .058 times .707 rounded to the nearest.001). I would set the forms to .0205 for .058, .021 for .059, and to .0215 Am I fudging it, yes. Do you think I can actually set both sides of theforms to .0005...? I am not that crazy to think I could. I am doing thisusing a 45* tip on my depth gauge and using the information from JohnIrgensin THE BEST OF THE PLANING FORM. If I am doing it wrong, I must say...therods cannot tell the difference. They are coming out pretty close to thenumbers I am shooting for, which are...cross sectional sameness at anygivenpoint, intended line weight, and intended action.I hope to start using an Excel spreadsheet and drill rods to set the formsin the near future. Actually, I hope to start using the mill for quads soon,that is if I can remember to order the right cutters!!!!Best regards,Bob -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Quad making questions I would like to look at that chart if you don't mind!Thank You Ron from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 19 20:35:01 2002 g3K1Z0412059 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:35:00 -0500 19 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0400 Subject: RE: Wrapping Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is anyreal advantage. Silk does look very nice.I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wrapsopaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish.I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think itis significantly better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry,I could not resist).-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: Wrapping This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real = Silk does look very nice. rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like = like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use = any way except for saleability. cents...go ahead and flame away boys! the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could = resist). AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: =WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but = tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather = nylon?ThanksBob =A from bob@downandacross.com Fri Apr 19 20:43:50 2002 g3K1hn412498 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:43:49 -0500 Subject: RE: Payne 98 and ferrules Mark, try Sheffield's knife supply in FL. They have info posted on the web.They are very reasonable. I paid 3-4 dollars a foot for 1/4" barstock a fewyears back. Making ferrules is fun (but probably not that cost effective anymore with the Rush River ferrules being so nice and so affordable.)Bob Maulucci -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules Anybody have agood place to buy NS round stock? Thanks,Mark from mrc@mars.plala.or.jp Fri Apr 19 20:54:29 2002 g3K1sR412949 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:54:27 -0500 id g3K1sPO01633; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:54:25 +0900 (JST) id KAA18699; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:54:25 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Wrapping Bob A, et al, This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A I think it's a good and important question.Though I'm not sure if I reply to your question correctly... In our traditional Japanese rod making, making a round and hollow cane rod,the reason of using silk thread was for strength. Though we may not need such strong binding force of wrapping on snakeguidefoot,but we had needed rather stronger force of wrapping at the portion ofconnection and power wraps on hollowed blank. Power wrap was needed onsplit cane rods when we did not have so strong adhesives in old days. In old days, we used urushi varnish. When urushi is absorbed inside thesilk thread,if we use strong type of urushi, the varnish will weaken the thread.So, it was important to use weaker type of urushi on the wraps. Have you taken off your wrap which is varnished with epoxy andpolyurethane?Was the thread coming out as thread? Probably No. Thread may be takenoutlike as a thin sheet of plastic.When we use such chemical varnish, even silk thread is changed to theplastic by absorbing varnish andhas lost the original strength as thread.It is al right while it is used on snake wrapps where no such strong bindingforce is needed. So does nylon thread, probably even cotton for snake foot. Max ========================================Max Satoh - Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod Makerhttp://maxrod.tripod.comMax Rod Craft - Online Shophttp://m-r- c.tripod.com======================================== from KyleDruey@aol.com Fri Apr 19 21:41:52 2002 g3K2fp414451 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:41:51 -0500 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:41:40 - Subject: Re: Wrapping Dont you think the silk lays flatter and makes for a smoother transition to the flat when varnishing? This leads me to a question: how do you guys smooth out the ridge ofvarnish that builds up between the ferrule wrap and the ferrule? When I mask offthe ferrule with magic tape a "wall" of varnish builds up, when I pull the tape off the varnish ridge stands out like a you know what in a punch bowl. Any suggestions here? Kyle In a message dated 04/19/2002 6:36:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is anyreal advantage. Silk does look very nice.I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wrapsopaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think itis significantly better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!BobPS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry,I could not resist).-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real advantage. Silk does look very nice. I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">-----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Robert AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? DIV> Thanks Bob A----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return- Path: Received: from rly-xe04.mx.aol.com (rly-xe04.mail.aol.com Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:36:28 -0500 rly- Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:35:20 -0400 g3K1ZI412106; [64. g3K1Z0412059 19 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0400 From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:23:29 -0400Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from avyoung@iinet.net.au Fri Apr 19 21:50:29 2002 g3K2oR414833 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:50:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Wrapping There are likely other reasons but the main one that I can see (the other being looks) is if you bind in nylon the bamboo will dent from the nylon trying to return to it's relaxed state after being stretched during the binding process, just like nylon on a fishing reel spool after fighting a really big fish. Tony At 07:09 PM 4/19/02 -0600, Robert Amundson wrote: This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jvswan@earthlink.net Fri Apr 19 22:17:18 2002 g3K3HH415485 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:17:17 -0500 (216.160.237.84) User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/10.0.0.1429 Subject: Re: Tamegi, Japanese straightening tool Rodmakers Thanks Max. I appreciate the explanation. Sounds like a pretty slick tool.Would maybe be very useful for removing sets in finished rods. Jason On 4/19/02 6:55 PM, "Max Satoh" wrote: Jason, et al So, what I want more about are those Tameki straightening tools. Jason On 4/18/02 2:12 PM, "chad wigham" wrote: http://homepage1.nifty.com/yukihiro-rod/englishindex.html Tamegi or Tameki is a wood bar which has groove(s) near the end.Tame=straightening, ki or gi=wood, in Japanese. Usually we pronounce it asTamegi. Tamegi is not a kind of automatic straightening tool like clothes iron,but the tool which is widely used in making a round non-splited cane rod,Wasao (means Japanese rod). the groove ofof Tamegi, and un-bend it by leverging by Tamegi. The groove is put 45 (orless) degrees against theside of the wood bar. So you have only to shake (glasp) the rod and Tamegitogether to lever.I am also using Tamegi to straightening hex rod. To make, prepare 1"x1"x1' wood bar and make a 45 degree groove on it,nearto the end like below;The groove's depth is half the block. Though this is not the same to realTamegi but it is easierto use for hex blank from my experience._____| ||//||/ || || | for the right handed Heating system of Japanese rod making is usually charcoal heat and itsultrared beam from the burned charcoal. Two blocks on charcoal oven is to focus theheatcoming out ofthe oven. The reason why we use this kind of heating system, is that all ofJapanesebamboos are very oily or juicy. We need wipe out such oil repeatedly whileheating at initial stage. The pictures on his web almost come from Japaneserod making system. Round files are used to shave the inside of roundcanestomake the wall thickness thinner. I am glad to bring and show you Tamegi at Grayrock as I join the gatheringthis June. Max ========================================Max Satoh - Bamboo Fly Fishing Rod Makerhttp://maxrod.tripod.comMax Rod Craft - Online Shophttp://m-r- c.tripod.com======================================== from bennetts@cybermesa.com Fri Apr 19 22:25:45 2002 g3K3Pi415930 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:25:44 -0500 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:25:41 -0600 Subject: Fw: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Subject: Fw: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 OK, this should take you right to the rod : =www.canerod.com/rodmakers/tapers/leonard/myst8.html This is whereJohn =Channer told me to find it so I'm assuming it is the correct one. Is it = Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 Hi Scott: On W>C> list of tapers, which one is the Mystery rod, I have =been trhying to find that out myself.Lew ldboyko@cpinternet.com Subject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 I found the "Mystery Rod" specs on the Rodmakers site, = Scott Subject: RE: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 OK, you guys have me hooked. Got a taper for this rod? I'd like =to see the graph on it, and might just have to make one. Thanks Regards -- TAM @font-face { font-family: SimSun;}@font-face { font-family: Tahoma;}@font-face { font-family: Arial Black;}@font-face { font-family: \@SimSun;}P.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT- DECORATION: underline}A:visited { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline}P.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}LI.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}DIV.MsoAutoSig { FONT-FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in0pt}P { FONT- FAMILY: "Times New Roman"; FONT-SIZE: 12pt; MARGIN-LEFT: 0in;=MARGIN- RIGHT: 0in}SPAN.EmailStyle18 { COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} From:C. = Bennett Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:21 PMSubject: Fw: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 From:C. = Bennett Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:11 PMSubject: Re: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 OK, this should take you right to the =rod : www.c= This is where John Channer told me to find it so I'm assuming it is the = Scott ----- Original Message ----- boyko Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = AMSubject: Re: Cattanach Rod = 8052 ----- Original Message ----- Scott Bennett Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Thursday, April 18, = PMSubject: Re: Cattanach Rod = 8052 I found the "Mystery Rod" specs on = Rodmakers site, www.canerod.com/rodmakers/= Scott ----- Original Message ----- = Miller, Troy fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sent: Thursday, April 18, = AMSubject: RE: Cattanach Rod = 8052 OK, you = Thanks -- TAM from atlasc1@earthlink.net Fri Apr 19 22:40:21 2002 g3K3eK416445 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 22:40:20 -0500 ([209.179.146.1] helo=computer) id 16yljC-0007G2-00; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 20:39:58 -0700 Subject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made right and adjust right it will give =no twist and no problems. Built mine for less then $25 Adam Subject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders. =Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? =All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert CleanCleanDocumentEmail =0=0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in =1.25in; mso- header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; =mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow- orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text- underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT- DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: =personal- compose; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-bidi- font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made = adjust right it will give no twist and no problems. Built mine for less = $25 Adam ----- Original Message ----- Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = AMSubject: Four string =binder Hello all, I am = advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from homes-sold@attbi.com Fri Apr 19 23:23:03 2002 g3K4N2417386 for ; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 23:23:02 -0500 Sat, 20 Apr 2002 04:22:52 +0000 Subject: Re: Four string binder Adam,I agree, there is nothing wrong with a Garrison Binder unless you try =to use to much weight. Try using 12oz - 24oz weight max depending on =what size strips you are binding and you won't have twist.Don Subject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made right and adjust right it will give =no twist and no problems. Built mine for less then $25 Adam Subject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders. =Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? =All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert CleanCleanDocumentEmail =0=0 MicrosoftInternetExplorer4 @page Section1 {size: 8.5in 11.0in; margin: 1.0in 1.25in 1.0in =1.25in; mso- header-margin: .5in; mso-footer-margin: .5in; =mso-paper-source: 0; }P.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso- fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}LI.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT-FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow-orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}DIV.MsoNormal { FONT-SIZE: 10pt; MARGIN: 0in 0in 0pt; FONT- FAMILY: "Times NewRoman"; =mso-style-parent: ""; mso-pagination: widow- orphan; =mso-fareast-font-family: "Times New Roman"}A:link { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlink { COLOR: blue; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}A:visited { COLOR: purple; TEXT-DECORATION: underline; text- underline: single}SPAN.MsoHyperlinkFollowed { COLOR: purple; TEXT- DECORATION: underline; text-underline: single}SPAN.EmailStyle17 { COLOR: windowtext; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-style-type: =personal- compose; mso-style-noshow: yes; mso-ansi-font-size: 10.0pt; =mso-bidi- font-size: 10.0pt; mso-ascii-font-family: Arial; =mso-hansi-font-family: Arial; mso-bidi-font-family: Arial}DIV.Section1 { page: Section1} table.MsoNormalTable {mso-style-name:"Table Normal"; mso-tstyle- rowband-size:0; mso-tstyle-colband-size:0; mso-style-noshow:yes; mso- style-parent:""; mso-padding-alt:0in 5.4pt 0in 5.4pt; mso-para- margin:0in; mso-para-margin-bottom:.0001pt; mso-pagination:widow- orphan; font-size:10.0pt; font-family:"Times New Roman";} Adam,I agree, there is nothing wrong with a = twist.Don From:Adam= ; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 8:37 PMSubject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made = adjust right it will give no twist and no problems. Built mine for less = $25 Adam ----- Original Message ----- Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 = AMSubject: Four string =binder Hello all, I am = advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Apr 20 02:11:25 2002 g3K7BO420080 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:11:25 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:11:19 -0700 Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:11:18 GMT Subject: Re: Wrapping FILETIME=[91D7C9F0:01C1E83A] There is no reason to use silk other than personal preference and tradition. Nylon will go clear just as silk does. Nylon works better for preserved wraps since the changes in varnish and laquer. White shellac gives a different look to the silk that can be attractive. It is increasingly difficult to obtain 2/0 nylon to wrap fly rods these days which is a significant point in obtaing nice looking wraps with nylon. As to flat wraps, the recent Pearsalls craze wraps just as round as any nylon. Like many things recently there seems to be the 'bamboo correct' way to build a rod that has no basis in fact or function. As there are many more talented amateur makers (less than a dozen sales a year) than proffesionals the dictated standards are being driven by builders with virtualy unlimited time to expend on each rod. Great if someone wants the resulting work of art but a tough break if someone wants to buy a cane rod to try one out for three digits. Use what you want to in other words.A.J. From: "Robert Amundson" Subject: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:09:54 -0600 This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from ajthramer@hotmail.com Sat Apr 20 02:21:34 2002 g3K7LY420442 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 02:21:34 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 00:21:28 -0700 Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:21:28 GMT Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules FILETIME=[FCE8E340:01C1E83B] Most of the classic rod tapers had a 'drop' over the ferrules. It made the action feel crisp and lively. If I had to guess it had a 12/64, about .186-.190 at the butt ferrule and .172-.176 at the tip ferrule. Step(leonard patent) ferrules do not actually change diameters from the male to the female unless made that way. Apparently almost no one uses them anymoreand there seems to be alot of misinformation about how they are constructed. Swiss ferrules are easy to make, easy to fit to the cane, strong and not very damn elegant. Please refer to earlier post about runaway 'cane correctness'.A.J. From: Mark Wendt Subject: Payne 98 and ferrulesDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:50:30 -0400 All, I was looking over the taper archives on the canerod site, and was tryingto guesstimate the correct ferrule size for this rod. Since it's a 7' rod,half the length would be 42". The dimensions at the 40" station is .171,and the dimension at the 45" station is .194. Doing a little fuzzy math, Ifigured the 42" station would have a dimension of .1802. An 11/64'sferrule would fit over a dimension of .1719, while a 12/64's ferrule wouldfit over a dimension of .1875 (rounded). Did I figure something wrong,such as the placement of the ferrule, or if not, which ferrule would I use,and at what dimension would I put it? Thanks,Mark _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com from channer@frontier.net Sat Apr 20 06:49:44 2002 g3KBnh425339 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 06:49:43 - for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 05:49:46 - Subject: Re: Fw: Cattanach Rod taper 8052 yes Scott, that's the one.john from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sat Apr 20 07:10:00 2002 g3KC9x425739 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:09:59 - g3KC9ptx015955 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:09:52 - Subject: RE: Wrapping At 09:23 PM 4/19/02 -0400, you wrote:Stubbornessand self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any realadvantage. Silk does look very nice. I do all the rods I keep formyself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like them like that.It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks forcustomer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think it is significantly betterin any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead andflame away boys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk ornylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could notresist). beauty of having a wife who works at Victoria's Secret....... Mark from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 20 07:56:24 2002 g3KCuO426330 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 07:56:24 - Subject: rodmakers recipients rodmakers =recipients from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 20 08:06:25 2002 g3KD6P426650 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:06:25 - Subject: Re: Wrapping Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Wrapping This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 08:18:47 2002 g3KDIk427450 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:18:46 -0500 helo=default) id 16yulG-0005SS-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:18:43 -0400 Subject: Re: Wrapping Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely toopractical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lowermodulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased powercurve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it'sprofile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that noone can proveotherwise. >>8^? M-D Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 08:25:31 2002 g3KDPU427912 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:25:30 -0500 helo=default) id 16yurn-0006Ca-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:25:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Steve, Please allow me to avail myself of the opportunity to publicly castigate = Excuse me, but how long have you been on the List? Don't you know that =all Listproc commands have to be sent to Listproc@wugate.wustl.edu . I =bet you, like many others, not only didn't save the little intro page =that was sent you upon subscribing to the List, but you probably never =read it. If you had you might remember that not only were the commands =to be sent to the addy above, but that the information which you seek is =obtained with the command REVIEW RODMAKERS. Well, this should certainly serve as a warning to others who might =innocently, but ignorantly, post commands to the List. Not only that, =but perhaps they'll be unable to ever unsubscribe and remain stuck in =List Limbo for all Eternity, much as have those who found themselves =forever locked into Bamboo Joe's Cyber-Hell. Now, before anyone gets all bent over this, realize that Steve and I =know each other, and Steve knows I'm just messing with him, so go have =another cup of coffee and relax. (I don't think I need any more coffee =this morning.) >>8^=DE M-D rodmakers recipients Steve, Please allow me toavail = mercy. Excuse me, but howlong = Listproc@wugate.wustl.edu&n= that was sent you upon subscribing to the List, but you probably never = the command REVIEW RODMAKERS. Well, this should = a warning to others who might innocently, but ignorantly, post commands = List. Not only that, but perhaps they'll be unable to ever unsubscribe = remain stuck in List Limbo for all Eternity, much as have those who = themselves forever locked into Bamboo Joe's =Cyber-Hell. Now, before anyonegets = messing with him, so go have another cup of coffee and relax. (I don't = M-D ----- Original Message ----- Steve Trauthwein Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 = AM recipients from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sat Apr 20 08:36:00 2002 g3KDZx428998 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:35:59 - Subject: Re: Wrapping Yeah! I always just let my taste guide me. I like silk. I also like BuschBeer and pork rinds. No accounting for taste. Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping There is no reason to use silk other than personal preference and tradition. Nylon will go clear just as silk does. Nylon works better for preservedwraps since the changes in varnish and laquer. White shellac gives adifferent look to the silk that can be attractive. It is increasinglydifficult to obtain 2/0 nylon to wrap fly rods these days which is asignificant point in obtaing nice looking wraps with nylon. As to flatwraps, the recent Pearsalls craze wraps just as round as any nylon. Likemany things recently there seems to be the 'bamboo correct' way to buildarod that has no basis in fact or function. As there are many more talentedamateur makers (less than a dozen sales a year) than proffesionals thedictated standards are being driven by builders with virtualy unlimited time to expend on each rod. Great if someone wants the resulting work of art but a tough break if someone wants to buy a cane rod to try one out for threedigits. Use what you want to in other words.A.J. From: "Robert Amundson" Subject: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:09:54 -0600 This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from lblove@omniglobal.net Sat Apr 20 08:39:17 2002 g3KDdG429255 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:39:16 - 0000 (12.162.144.79) Subject: Re: Wrapping --=====_10193100386334=_ Because if you dont use silk somebody will get the water hose outand spray you and your cagemates down. just kiddingBrad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR *********** On 4/19/02 at 7:09 PM Robert Amundson wrote:This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides=beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A --=====_10193100386334=_ Because if you dont use silk somebody will get the water hoseout just kiddingBrad*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********On 4/19/02 at 7:09 PM Robert Amundsonwrote: This is probably a dumb question but couldanyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A --=====_10193100386334=_-- from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Apr 20 08:51:40 2002 g3KDpb429842 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:51:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Wrapping The theory of Young's modules is based on seeing the dents left in a re wrap I once did that came to me with with nylon wraps.The wraps were very long and an ugly colour and the guy wanted the wraps shorter than they were. There were dents in the bamboo where the wrapswere so the silk needed to be wrapped to the same length as the nylon to cover these.It's no problem I guess but it does mean if you ever do a re wrap it has to at least cove the original wraps, again no big deal. The fishing spool part of the theory comes from catching some Samson fish on an ABU 7500 and not trailing the line and re winding it on the boat ride home. Two week later the line was a mass of crinkled and useless 25lb mono.Lesson, if you get too sea sick to look after your mono line after a fishing trip use Spider Wire or maybe silk??. Tony Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly rod /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sat Apr 20 08:54:13 2002 g3KDsC400089 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 08:54:12 - g3KDs5tx018053 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:54:06 - Subject: RE: Wrapping Yeah, I get some nifty, uh, toys......mark At 09:39 AM 4/20/02 -0400, you wrote:Whoa!Lucky man! -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Mark WendtSent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 8:11 AM Subject: RE: Wrapping At 09:23 PM 4/19/02 -0400, youwrote:Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that thereis any real advantage. Silk does look very nice. I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep thewraps opaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat,and fish. I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...Idon't think it is significantly better in any way except forsaleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame awayboys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer.(Sorry, I could not resist). the beauty of having a wife who works at Victoria'sSecret....... Mark from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Apr 20 09:01:06 2002 g3KE15400437 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:01:05 - rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Payne 98 and ferrules There are Leonard style ferrules available from Bailey Woods (CSE) which are very beautiful very functional and quite expensive. They also save a lot of hassle in doing replacements in restorations and allow using old tapers without modification. No commercial interest . . .-Doug At 07:21 AM 4/20/2002 +0000, Allen Thramer wrote: Most of the classic rod tapers had a 'drop' over the ferrules. It made the action feel crisp and lively. If I had to guess it had a 12/64, about .186-.190 at the butt ferrule and .172-.176 at the tip ferrule. Step(leonard patent) ferrules do not actually change diameters from the male to the female unless made that way. Apparently almost no one uses them anymore and there seems to be alot of misinformation about howthey are constructed. Swiss ferrules are easy to make, easy to fit to the cane, strong and not very damn elegant. Please refer to earlier post about runaway 'cane correctness'.A.J. _________________________________________________________________Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 20 09:07:12 2002 g3KE7A400911 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:07:11 - Subject: Re: Wrapping Kyle, I never try to mask off this area when varnishing the wrap. In fact, as Ibuild the finish, I allow a few coats to form a minute "ramp" between thewrap and the metal. After the wraps are finished, I varnish the entire rodincluding the ferrules, and this smooths out the transition. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping Dont you think the silk lays flatter and makes for a smoother transition to the flat when varnishing? This leads me to a question: how do you guys smooth out the ridge of varnish that builds up between the ferrule wrap and the ferrule? When I mask off the ferrule with magic tape a "wall" of varnish builds up, when I pull the tape off the varnish ridge stands out like a you know what in a punch bowl. Any suggestions here? Kyle from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 20 09:08:45 2002 g3KE8i401171 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:08:45 - Subject: Re: Four string binder Adam, True, but it's death on quads. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made right and adjust right it will give notwist and no problems. Built mine for less then $25 Adam----- Original Message -----From: Robert Cristant Subject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders.Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? Allopinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from saltwein@worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 20 09:15:43 2002 g3KEFg401662 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:15:42 -0500 ;Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:15:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Yeah, Yeah, Yeah I am trying to furl leaders, and it is a distraction...at least that's =my excuse and I'm sticking with it. Steve Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:20 AM Steve, Please allow me to avail myself of the opportunity to publicly = Excuse me, but how long have you been on the List? Don't you know that =all Listproc commands have to be sent to Listproc@wugate.wustl.edu . I =bet you, like many others........., Yeah, Yeah, Yeah I am trying to furl leaders, and it is = distraction...at least that's my excuse and I'm sticking with =it. Steve ----- Original Message ----- Jojo =DeLancier group Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 = AMSubject: Re: Steve, Please allow me to = mercy. Excuse me, but howlong = sent to Listproc@wugate.wustl.edu&n= others........., from rextutor@yahoo.com Sat Apr 20 09:24:40 2002 g3KEOd402097 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:24:39 - 20 Apr 2002 07:24:38 PDT Subject: Re: Wrapping KyleEven if I wrap a ferrule , I occasionally get a wall/ring of varnish on the ferrule, too, but not always.My belief is that the varnish is too thick when thathappens. I always pull tape after 24 hour of drying. Ican easily remove varnish under or touching tape withalcohol on rag. The varnish has some pliability and isstill mildly workable. At about 48 hours I have tobuff off ,with the dremmel, any varnish on metal. Good Luck --- KyleDruey@aol.com wrote: Dont you think the silk lays flatter and makes for asmoother transition to the flat when varnishing? This leads me to a question: how do you guys smoothout the ridge of varnish that builds up between the ferrule wrap and theferrule? When I mask off the ferrule with magic tape a "wall" of varnish buildsup, when I pull the tape off the varnish ridge stands out like a you knowwhat in a punch bowl. Any suggestions here? Kyle In a message dated 04/19/2002 6:36:28 PM PacificDaylight Time, bob@downandacross.com writes: Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real advantage. Silk does look very nice.I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think it is significantly better in any way except for saleability. My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!BobPS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Behalf Of Robert Amundson Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? ThanksBob ATransitional//EN"> name=GENERATOR> Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real advantage. Silk does look very nice. I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks it is significantly better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys! Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #000000 2px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">align=left>-----Original Message- ----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Robert AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: WrappingThis is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? > DIV> Thanks Bob A ----------------------- Headers -------------------------------- Return-Path: Received: from rly-xe04.mx.aol.com (rly-xe04.mail.aol.com MAILINXE13-0419213628; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:36:28 -0500Received: from wugate.wustl.edu MAILRELAYINXE47-0419213520; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:35:20 -0400 g3K1ZI412106; [64. g3K1Z0412059 Messaging Server 4.15 19 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0400 From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:23:29 -0400Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal V6.00.2600.0000 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from rextutor@yahoo.com Sat Apr 20 09:29:22 2002 g3KETL402389 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:29:21 - 20 Apr 2002 07:29:21 PDT Subject: Re: Wrapping rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I agree with Mr Thamer. I have seen guys swear theycan tell the difference between beers as well as nylon/ silk. I think alot of makers use nylon as it iseasier to deal with and let people admire the wrapsand think what they will. --- Allen Thramer wrote: There is no reason to use silk other than personalpreference and tradition. Nylon will go clear just as silk does. Nylon worksbetter for preserved wraps since the changes in varnish and laquer. Whiteshellac gives a different look to the silk that can be attractive.It is increasingly difficult to obtain 2/0 nylon to wrap fly rods thesedays which is a significant point in obtaing nice looking wraps withnylon. As to flat wraps, the recent Pearsalls craze wraps just asround as any nylon. Like many things recently there seems to be the 'bamboocorrect' way to build a rod that has no basis in fact or function. As thereare many more talented amateur makers (less than a dozen sales a year) thanproffesionals the dictated standards are being driven by builders withvirtualy unlimited time to expend on each rod. Great if someone wants theresulting work of art but a tough break if someone wants to buy a cane rod totry one out for three digits. Use what you want to in other words.A.J. From: "Robert Amundson" Subject: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:09:54 -0600 This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? ThanksBob A _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer athttp://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from harms1@pa.net Sat Apr 20 09:30:55 2002 g3KEUs402699 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 09:30:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Wrapping MD, But, of course--as every schoolboy knows! This theory actually goes back toan ancient Yangtze discovery whereby the sinues of cricket legs were lashedtogether with silk to form crossbows. Silk wraps were found to be superioreven to graphite-impregnated epoxy. Oh yes, graphite existed in 5th cent.BC too--formed by charring strips of bamboo taken from Nunley's oven. Ohyes, Nunley was there! Indisputable and time-tested, this theory of silk wraps remains responsible they will not cast a line of ANY sort. :>) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice "Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity (Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly rod due to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during the casting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can prove otherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from robertgkope@attbi.com Sat Apr 20 10:15:38 2002 g3KFFb403851 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:15:37 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 15:15:31 +0000 , Subject: Re: Four string binder Really? I'm surprised to hear that. I built a PMQ recently and bound itwith a Garrison style binder (actually my imitation of Al Bellinger'sbinder), with no problems. You also have to realize that the tip of a PMQlooks about like the tip of a standard slotted screwdriver blade when youbind it because you plane the width after binding. What's the problem witha standard 4-strip quad? Do the corners get destroyed? -- Robert----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Four string binder Adam, True, but it's death on quads. Cheers, Bill from caneman@clnk.com Sat Apr 20 10:57:02 2002 g3KFv1404774 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:57:01 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Wrapping Kyle, I don't use masking tape on the ferrule, I use Scotch tape. It issuper thin and the ridge is very low that way. Can polish it off in aheartbeat with a little 2000 grit and touch it up with Finesse-It II polishand she's clean as a whistle. Later,Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping Dont you think the silk lays flatter and makes for a smoother transition to the flat when varnishing? This leads me to a question: how do you guys smooth out the ridge of varnish that builds up between the ferrule wrap and the ferrule? When I mask off the ferrule with magic tape a "wall" of varnish builds up, when I pull the tape off the varnish ridge stands out like a you know what in a punch bowl. Any suggestions here? Kyle In a message dated 04/19/2002 6:36:28 PM Pacific Daylight Time,bob@downandacross.com writes: Stubborness and self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any real advantage. Silk does look very nice.I do all the rods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wrapsopaque. I like them like that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks for customer's rods. Is it nicer?...I don't think it is significantly better in any way except for saleability.My two cents...go ahead and flame away boys!Bob PS. Now if the wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).-----Original Message-----From: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: Wrapping This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A Stubbornessand self torture come to mind. I do not think that there is any realadvantage.Silk does look very nice. I do all therods I keep for myself wrapped in nylon. I keep the wraps opaque. I like themlike that. It's cheaper, easier to wrap, coat, and fish. I use Pearsall's silks better inany way except for saleability.My twocents...go ahead and flame away boys!Bob PS. Now ifthe wife said silk or nylon teddy...that's a no brainer. (Sorry, I could not resist).style="PADDING-LEFT: 5px; MARGIN-LEFT: 5px; BORDER-LEFT: #0000002px solid; MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">-----Original Message- ----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu wustl.edu]On Behalf Of Robert AmundsonSent: Friday, April 19, 2002 9:10 PM Subject: Wrapping This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? > DIV> Thanks Bob A ----------------------- Headers --------------------------------Return-Path: Received: from rly-xe04.mx.aol.com (rly-xe04.mail.aol.com 0419213628; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:36:28 -0500 by rly- 0419213520; Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:35:20 -0400 g3K1ZI412106; [64. g3K1Z0412059 Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:23:31 -0400 From: "Bob Maulucci" Subject: RE: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 21:23:29 -0400Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; X-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-MSMail-Priority: NormalX-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.2.09/990901/11:28 -- ListProc(tm) by CREN from edriddle@mindspring.com Sat Apr 20 10:59:17 2002 g3KFxF405040 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 10:59:15 -0500 helo=oemcomputer) id 16yxGZ-0006sj-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 11:59:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Wrapping Beer for Breakfast again?, eh boys? Ed ----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping MD, But, of course--as every schoolboy knows! This theory actually goes back to an ancient Yangtze discovery whereby the sinues of cricket legs were lashed together with silk to form crossbows. Silk wraps were found to be superior even to graphite-impregnated epoxy. Oh yes, graphite existed in 5th cent.BC too--formed by charring strips of bamboo taken from Nunley's oven. Ohyes, Nunley was there! Indisputable and time-tested, this theory of silk wraps remains responsible they will not cast a line of ANY sort. :>) Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Jojo DeLancier" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 9:13 AMSubject: Re: Wrapping Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice "Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity (Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly rod due to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during the casting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can prove otherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generate some theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from lblove@omniglobal.net Sat Apr 20 14:02:19 2002 g3KJ2I409381 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 14:02:18 - 0000 (12.162.144.79) Subject: virus alert hey everyone,heads up just got a virus alarm from a message from the list from one ZamBamBoo@aol.comwhich contained the "W32/klezgen@MM" virusDont open it , just delete the thing... Brad from bennetts@cybermesa.com Sat Apr 20 16:30:14 2002 g3KLUC412357 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 16:30:13 - Subject: Re: Router Bit Order I think we should each send $15 to David. Scott ----- Original Message ----- "WilhelmRG" ; "Tim Wilhelm";"Adam Vigil" ; "David Smith" ;"Shaffer" ; "Doug Sandberg";"Bob McElvain" ; "Dave LeClair" ;"LeeKoeser" ; "Rich Jezioro" ;"RobertHolder" ; "Tom Hardy" ; "NedGuyette" ; "Richard Green" ; "Rick Funcik"; "Tim Doughty"; "Lowell Davis" ;"Rick Crenshaw" ; "Onis Cogburn"; "GSBerenson" ; "HarryBoyd"; "C. Scott Bennett" ;"Jskve" Subject: Router Bit Order Hello I've sent out your bit order today. You should be receiving them shortly.Hopefully, they are what you anticipated. David Rinker819 Washington Crossing Rd.Newtown, PA 18940USABest regardsDavid Rinker from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Apr 20 19:51:59 2002 g3L0pw418234 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:51:58 - Subject: Re: Router Bit Order In a message dated 04/20/2002 5:30:57 PM Eastern Daylight Time, bennetts@cybermesa.com writes: Good idea. Dave check out our new site at- flyandrodroom.com AOL site- http://hometown.aol.com/leclair123/index.html from Notsooyoun@aol.com Sat Apr 20 20:14:13 2002 g3L1ED418712 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:14:13 - for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:14:04 - Subject: Guide Spacing and Size I built a 7'6" 3 piece rod for 5 weight line and need help determining the number, and spacing for the guides. I have tried to down load hexrod, but it doesn't seem to want to download. Is there instructions for the use of the hexrod program? ThanksGary from crmitchell@ocsonline.com Sat Apr 20 20:20:51 2002 g3L1Ko419040 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:20:50 - helo=ocsonline.com) id 16z5zw-0003rs-00; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:18:36 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Win98; en-US; rv:0.9.4)Gecko/20011128 Netscape6/6.2.1 Subject: Re: Router Bit Order --------------000705040504040101060906 I agree...lots of time involved in this....... C. Scott Bennett wrote: I think we should each send $15 to David. Scott ----- Original Message -----From: "David Rinker" "WilhelmRG" ; "Tim Wilhelm";"Adam Vigil" ; "David Smith" ;"Shaffer" ; "Doug Sandberg";"Bob McElvain" ; "Dave LeClair" ;"LeeKoeser" ; "Rich Jezioro" ;"RobertHolder" ; "Tom Hardy" ; "NedGuyette" ; "Richard Green" ; "Rick Funcik"; "Tim Doughty"; "Lowell Davis" ;"Rick Crenshaw" ; "Onis Cogburn"; "GSBerenson" ; "HarryBoyd"; "C. Scott Bennett" ;"Jskve" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:27 AMSubject: Router Bit Order Hello I've sent out your bit order today. You should be receiving them shortly.Hopefully, they are what you anticipated. David Rinker819 Washington Crossing Rd.Newtown, PA 18940USABest regardsDavid Rinker --------------000705040504040101060906 I agree...lots of time involved in this....... C. Scott Bennett wrote: I think we should each send $15 toDavid.Scott----- Original Message ----- From: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:27 AMSubject: Router BitOrder HelloI've sent out your bit order today. You should bereceiving them shortly.Hopefully, they are what youanticipated.Your total amount is $13.97 for 1 bit. Please forward your PA 18940USABest regardsDavid Rinker --------------000705040504040101060906-- from LambersonW@missouri.edu Sat Apr 20 20:31:14 2002 g3L1VD419380 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:31:13 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:31:08 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: Four string binder Thread-Topic: Four string binderThread-Index: AcHoflqyUAnTm7ZBTNKDWaocgMrs0wAVZ2pH "Adam Vigil" , , FILETIME=[363665D0:01C1E8D4] g3L1VE419381 Yes, the corners get destroyed. There is a key difference between the PMQand a four-strip quad. The four-strip quad has a very fragile 45 degree angleat the edge of each strip. The fibers peel off these edges very easily. Running them through a Garrison style binder rubs those edges on thesupports. The PMQ doesn't have the acute angles so aren't as likely to bedamaged. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Sat 4/20/2002 10:21 AM rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Cc: Subject: Re: Four string binder Really? I'm surprised to hear that. I built a PMQ recently and bound it with a Garrison style binder (actually my imitation of Al Bellinger's binder), with no problems. You also have to realize that the tip of aPMQ looks about like the tip of a standard slotted screwdriver blade whenyou bind it because you plane the width after binding. What's the problemwith a standard 4-strip quad? Do the corners get destroyed? -- Robert ----- Original Message ----- From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Subject: Re: Four string binder > Adam, >True, but it's death on quads. >Cheers, Bill > from LambersonW@missouri.edu Sat Apr 20 20:36:25 2002 g3L1aP419666 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:36:25 -0500 Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:36:21 -0500 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: RE: Wrapping Thread-Topic: WrappingThread-Index: AcHobgbqBajra3oLRB2vm7Q1RFf/pgAZpdES FILETIME=[F0ECB500:01C1E8D4] g3L1aP419667 M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrappedintermediates increase the power as has recently been suggested, then theincreased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretch should result in afaster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measuredthem, we might even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson -----Original Message----- Sent: Sat 4/20/2002 8:13 AM Cc: Subject: Re: Wrapping Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely toopractical, as is the advice "Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lowermodulus of elasticity (Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increasedpower curve in the bamboo fly rod due to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flattenit's profile during the casting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, andthat no one can prove otherwise. >>8^Az( M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generate some theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besides beauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon? Thanks Bob A from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 20:45:06 2002 g3L1j5420056 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:45:05 -0500 helo=default) id 16z6PX-0005bX-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:45:03 -0400 Subject: Re: Wrapping Bill, Let me know when you get the thousand rods done, and I'll see if I can't findsome people to helpyou wrap them. ;o) M-D M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrappedintermediates increase the poweras has recently been suggested, then the increased tightness of the nylonwrap due to its stretchshould result in a faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousandand measured them, wemight even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely toopractical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lowermodulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased powercurve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it'sprofile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that noone can proveotherwise. >>8^Az M-D Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from caneman@clnk.com Sat Apr 20 20:57:21 2002 g3L1vK420480 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:57:20 - (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-61365U2500L250S0V35) Subject: Re: Router Bit Order Hey, I think that's great! Especially since I ordered 4 bits from him! Ofcourse, I think he'd probably prefer that I send a bit more than $15! *S* Bob R.L. Nunley, RodmakerCustom Split Cane Flyrodshttp://www.caneflyrod.com- ---- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Router Bit Order I think we should each send $15 to David. Scott ----- Original Message -----From: "David Rinker" "WilhelmRG" ; "Tim Wilhelm" ; "Adam Vigil" ; "David Smith" ;"Shaffer" ; "Doug Sandberg" ; "Bob McElvain" ; "Dave LeClair"; "Lee Koeser" ; "Rich Jezioro" ;"RobertHolder" ; "Tom Hardy" ; "NedGuyette" ; "Richard Green" ; "Rick Funcik"; "Tim Doughty"; "Lowell Davis";"Rick Crenshaw" ; "Onis Cogburn"; "GSBerenson" ; "HarryBoyd"; "C. Scott Bennett" ;"Jskve" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:27 AMSubject: Router Bit Order Hello I've sent out your bit order today. You should be receiving them shortly. Hopefully, they are what you anticipated. David Rinker819 Washington Crossing Rd.Newtown, PA 18940USABest regardsDavid Rinker from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 20:59:58 2002 g3L1xv420732 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 20:59:57 -0500 helo=default) id 16z6ds-0005ui-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:59:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Gary, First, place the stripper approximately two inches in front of your hand asyou would normally reach spacing chart. You canfind one on most rod companies web sites, or www.rec.com You'll probablyuse a total of 9 guides onthis rod, including the stripper. So, after you've taped the guides into thesuggested positiongiven by the chart, tie a string to the tiptop and run the fly line or otherstring through all theguides. Holding the butt end stationary and vertical to the ground, flex therod to 90Ÿ and used thestring tied to the tiptop to hold it in this position. Now take the fly line andpull it just so that it is snug. What you are trying to see here is the arc described by thefly line relative tothe natural curvature of the bent rod. The arc of the line should be as nearto the arc of the rodas possible. Adjust the guide spacings until this is has been achieved. M-D I built a 7'6" 3 piece rod for 5 weight line and need help determining thenumber, and spacing for the guides. I have tried to down load hexrod, but itdoesn't seem to want to download. Is there instructions for the use of thehexrod program?ThanksGary from beadman@mac.com Sat Apr 20 21:00:12 2002 g3L20A420822 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:00:11 - Apr Subject: RE: Wrapping g3L20B420825 On a solid core rod, the actual deformation of the rod (flattening during casting) would have to be so minuscule as to be undetectable... On a hollow core rod, such as a graphite rod, the circular cross section will definitely become oval, but in a solid core cane rod, the pith/fibers in the center prevent the deformation. As to the stiffening of the rod...stiffening is related to stress - the stiffer the rod, the lower the stress (with a given force) - but stress is highly dependent upon the distance of the outside "surface" (power fibers, normally) at any given point. When intermediate wraps are used, the outer surface is extended, which reduces the stress on lower layers, and the overall stress is reduced thereby on the cane. In other words, as I understand the theory, intermediate wraps will stiffen a rod, not because of their silk or nylon composition, but because it makes the rod "thicker" at that point. Only my opinion, and my attempt at understanding the theory...Claude At 8:36 PM -0500 , 4/20/02, Lamberson, William R. wrote about RE:Wrapping M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrapped intermediates increase the power as has recently been suggested, then the increased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretch should result in a faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measured them, we might even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can proveotherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from lblan@provide.net Sat Apr 20 21:35:04 2002 g3L2Z3421716 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:35:03 - for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:35:02 - Subject: Interesting Idea So there I was, browsing one of the woodworking forums. A fellow posted apic of a spalted birch bowl he had turned, along with the fact that it wasto soft to turn when he started working on it. Rather than toss it on thescrap pile he decided to try an experiment. He soaked the wood in a 50/50mixture of white glue and water for 24 hours, then microwaved it a couple oftimes to speed the drying. He stated that it firmed up enough to turneasily, and that a couple of cracks had "disappeared". Lovely bowl too...looked great. Larry Blan from bob@downandacross.com Sat Apr 20 21:40:34 2002 g3L2eX422014 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:40:34 - 20 Apr 2002 22:40:27 -0400 Subject: RE: Guide Spacing and Size Try this:http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/guide.html I have also been using Ray Gould's book for a starting point for spacingguides. Honestly, you need to get the rod out on the lawn and adjust untilyou feel the magic. As far as guides go, I would use 8 or 9 depending onhow fast the rod is. If it is parabolic feeling, I would have a few moreguides ala the Payne paras.Bob M. -----Original Message----- Notsooyoun@aol.com Subject: Guide Spacing and Size I built a 7'6" 3 piece rod for 5 weight line and need help determining thenumber, and spacing for the guides. I have tried to down loadhexrod, but itdoesn't seem to want to download. Is there instructions for the use of thehexrod program?ThanksGary from bob@downandacross.com Sat Apr 20 21:48:40 2002 g3L2md422364 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:48:39 - 20 Apr 2002 22:48:33 -0400 ,"Adam Vigil" , , Subject: RE: Four string binder g3L2me422365 I thought the PMQ were usually glued up with Pony clamps? I did one a longwhile back on the Hand Mill and I used the 1" clamps with good results.Unfortunately, the rod was terrible.I think with quads, it works best if the blank never rotates. That's onereason I like the JW wrapper for doing guide wraps. The quads just do notwant to rotate when being bound for glueing or when you wrap guides on. Ihave two 4 string binders and they both outperform the Garrison styledBellinger one for quads. I think the four stringers are finicky, but once set upproperly, they are the best thing for any configuration. I am going to build a Smithwick style binder to see if that is superior, beingless finicky to adjust one spool tension as opposed to 4. I do not mindwrapping twice. Has anyone used both to compare the 4 string vs theSmithwick?Bob -----Original Message----- R. rcristant@isgtransport.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE: Four string binder Yes, the corners get destroyed. There is a key difference between the PMQ and a four-strip quad. The four-strip quad has a very fragile 45 degree angle at the edge of each strip. The fibers peel off these edges very easily. Running them through a Garrison style binder rubs those edges on the supports. The PMQ doesn't have the acute angles so aren't as likely to be damaged. Bill Lamberson from dongreife@hotmail.com Sat Apr 20 21:50:57 2002 g3L2ou422611 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 21:50:56 - Sat, 20 Apr 2002 19:50:47 -0700 HTTP; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 02:50:47 GMT Subject: Re: Interesting Idea FILETIME=[56E69E70:01C1E8DF] Nice trick Larry,, also could you post the URL of the wood working forum "Rodmakers" fellow posted a fact that it was toss it on the wood in a 50/50 microwaved it a couple of enough to turn Lovely bowl too... Get your FREE download of MSNExplorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from homes-sold@attbi.com Sat Apr 20 22:47:52 2002 g3L3lp423936 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:47:51 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 03:47:35 +0000 , ,"Adam Vigil" , , Subject: Re: Four string binder I've often wondered why we got into 4 string binders in the first place, whynot 2 string binders? Wouldn't a 2 string offset the twisting action just aswell ? Anybody ever try one ? Don't get we wrong, usually I believe that if 1/4 stick of dynamite will doa good job, a whole stick would be better. A 2 string would be easier to setup and if you really wanted 4 strings, runit through twice. Also, if a 4 sting is that much better or that much moreof a gadget, why not a 6 string ? We could keep going until the strips looklike mummies. Back to my Vodka, Don from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sat Apr 20 22:51:21 2002 g3L3pJ424212 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:51:19 - Subject: RE: Wrapping g3L3pK424213 All anybody's got to do it try it and give it a go. Tony At 09:59 PM 4/20/02 -0400, Claude Freaner wrote: On a solid core rod, the actual deformation of the rod (flattening during casting) would have to be so minuscule as to be undetectable... On a hollow core rod, such as a graphite rod, the circular cross section will definitely become oval, but in a solid core cane rod, the pith/fibers in the center prevent the deformation. As to the stiffening of the rod...stiffening is related to stress - the stiffer the rod, the lower the stress (with a given force) - but stress is highly dependent upon the distance of the outside "surface" (power fibers, normally) at any given point. When intermediate wraps are used, the outer surface is extended, which reduces the stress on lower layers, and the overall stress is reduced thereby on the cane. In other words, as I understand the theory, intermediate wraps will stiffen a rod, not because of their silk or nylon composition, but because it makes the rod "thicker" at that point. Only my opinion, and my attempt at understanding the theory...Claude At 8:36 PM -0500 , 4/20/02, Lamberson, William R. wrote about RE:Wrapping M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrapped intermediates increase the power as has recently been suggested, thenthe increased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretch should result in a faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measured them, we might even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can proveotherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from lblan@provide.net Sat Apr 20 22:52:28 2002 g3L3qR424460 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:52:27 - for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:52:25 - Subject: RE: Interesting Idea Well M-D, so much for my supersecret, improved, modified, hand planed withaspecial silk/nylon mix, 'cause it is just better that way method. Note: this forum is a bit to well moderated for my tastes. If you postanything, read the rules first! As one example, Harry's Chrismas Missivewould be pulled, and Harry would receive a nasty note with big red letters. Once again, thank you Mike B, for being a tolerant Listmeister Bossman! http://www.wwforum.com/cgi-bin/forum_main/ptools2.cgi?read=364613 Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:51 PM Subject: Re: Interesting Idea Nice trick Larry,, also could you post the URL of the wood working forumyou mentioned? TIA Don Greife From: "Larry Blan" Subject: Interesting IdeaDate: Sat, 20 Apr 2002 22:36:38 -0400 So there I was, browsing one of the woodworking forums. A fellow posted apic of a spalted birch bowl he had turned, along with the fact that itwasto soft to turn when he started working on it. Rather than toss it on thescrap pile he decided to try an experiment. He soaked the wood in a 50/50mixture of white glue and water for 24 hours, then microwaved it a coupleoftimes to speed the drying. He stated that it firmed up enough to turneasily, and that a couple of cracks had "disappeared". Lovely bowl too...looked great. Larry Blan ------------------------------------------------------------------------------Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. M-D, so much for my supersecret, improved, modified, hand planed with a = this forum is a bit to well moderated for my tastes. If you post = and Harry would receive a nasty note with big red =letters. Bossman! http://www.wwforum.com/cgi- Larry Blan GreifeSent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 10:51 lblan@provide.netCc: = Re: Interesting Idea Nice trick Larry,, also could you post the URL of the wood working = = Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com. from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 23:38:55 2002 g3L4cs425415 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:38:54 -0500 helo=default) id 16z97d-0007HI-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:38:45 -0400 Subject: Re: Four string binder My experience with the 4-string is that it will put a long curve along thelength of the section,but that it induces very little, if any, twisting. The higher the tensions oneach thread the moredifficult it is to straighten, and the more pronounced is the long curve. I'vetried using only twostrings on the binder, each adjusted to light and even tension, and found thatthe long curve wasstill there, but that there was considerable induced twisting that was verydifficult to remove. Thelong curve, however was more easily removed. Makes sense to me.Part of the problem stems from the section being able to rotate aroundinside the tubes, due to therotation of the revolving heads, but it does not roll around. I think a shorterdistance from thetiptops, that the thread exits from, to the section itself would help toreduce the size of theserotations. The tips really get a working over as the size of the sectiondiminishes. M-D I've often wondered why we got into 4 string binders in the first place, whynot 2 string binders? Wouldn't a 2 string offset the twisting action just aswell ? Anybody ever try one ? Don't get we wrong, usually I believe that if 1/4 stick of dynamite will doa good job, a whole stick would be better. A 2 string would be easier to setup and if you really wanted 4 strings, runit through twice. Also, if a 4 sting is that much better or that much moreof a gadget, why not a 6 string ? We could keep going until the strips looklike mummies. Back to my Vodka, Don from jojo@ipa.net Sat Apr 20 23:51:14 2002 g3L4pD425787 for ; Sat, 20 Apr 2002 23:51:13 -0500 helo=default) id 16z9Je-0002dj-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:51:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Wrapping Well, Bill's offered to make a thousand rods, and I told him I'd help him to findpeople to helpwith the wrapping, so sounds like we've got a good start on the mother of allbamboo experiments. M-D All anybody's got to do it try it and give it a go. Tony At 09:59 PM 4/20/02 -0400, Claude Freaner wrote: On a solid core rod, the actual deformation of the rod (flattening duringcasting) would have to be so minuscule as to be undetectable... On ahollow core rod, such as a graphite rod, the circular cross section willdefinitely become oval, but in a solid core cane rod, the pith/fibers inthe center prevent the deformation. As to the stiffening of therod...stiffening is related to stress - the stiffer the rod, the lower thestress (with a given force) - but stress is highly dependent upon thedistance of the outside "surface" (power fibers, normally) at any givenpoint. When intermediate wraps are used, the outer surface is extended,which reduces the stress on lower layers, and the overall stress isreduced thereby on the cane. In other words, as I understand the theory,intermediate wraps will stiffen a rod, not because of their silk or nyloncomposition, but because it makes the rod "thicker" at that point. Only my opinion, and my attempt at understanding the theory...Claude At 8:36 PM -0500 , 4/20/02, Lamberson, William R. wrote about RE:Wrapping M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrappedintermediates increase the power as has recently been suggested, thentheincreased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretch should result ina faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measuredthem, we might even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post wasentirely too practical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due toit's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to anincreased power curve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts toflatten it's profile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is thecase, and that no one can proveotherwise. >>8^? M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we couldgeneratesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why,besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 21 00:00:15 2002 g3L50E426202 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:00:14 -0500 helo=default) id 16z9SO-0002gn-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:00:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Four string binder Isn't there an ad in the latest issue of Power Fibers? M-D I think last week someone posted a URL for a commercial version of asmithwick/four string with foot pedal and motor. I didn't go to the site,lost the URL and therefore can't quote a price. Anyone still have the URL?-d from shane_person@telus.net Sun Apr 21 01:46:47 2002 g3L6kj427790 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 01:46:45 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Sun, 21 Apr 2002 00:46:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Four string binder Here is the URL for the binder in Power Fibers:http://www2.arkansas.net/~flyflinger/binder.htm You will also want to check out his "Wanton Mental Abandon" page athttp://www2.arkansas.net/~flyflinger/WMA.htm Shane Jojo DeLancier wrote: Isn't there an ad in the latest issue of Power Fibers? M-D From: "Aebersold, Dennis R" I think last week someone posted a URL for a commercial version of asmithwick/four string with foot pedal and motor. I didn't go to the site,lost the URL and therefore can't quote a price. Anyone still have the URL?-d from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Apr 21 05:14:38 2002 g3LAEa402182 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 05:14:36 - g3LAEJn23573; Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Gary Depends how precise you want to be. Something that works is this :(a) three key guide positions, one about 4" to 4 1/2 " below the tiptop, oneon the butt pretty close to the ferrule, and the stripper a bit less thanhalf way from the butt cap to the ferrule(b) you need one more guide between the stripper and the ferrule guide(c) position them coming back down the tip, each one spaced a bit furtherthan the last(d) put them on with masking tape, try them out, and buggerise about withthem until they're right. What amazes me is that if you do it this way just as a try thing, you willbe SOOO close to the theoretical arrangement that you will be veryimpressed with tradition after all, and you will start wrapping withGossamer and all that stuff, leading inevitably to a life of dissipation andof eccentricity! : > Peter from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 21 07:04:54 2002 g3LC4q403130 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:04:53 - (authenticated) Sun, 21 Apr 2002 05:04:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Peter, I'm not positive, but wasn't the rod in question a 3 pc. rod? If so, thentwo snake guides plus a stripper are going to be a little much for the buttsection. With two piece rods your suggested approach works quite well. Butthree piece rods require different tactics. I agree with the uppermost guide somewhere between 4"-5", but prefer tohavea guide on the mid-section right at the female ferrule. Seems like lots ofolder rods were subject to breakage there (Heddons, for instance), and alittleadditional thread there at least makes me feel better. But on these threepiecerods, I often place a guide right at the mid-section male ferrule as well,leaving only the stripper guide on the butt section. If I'm mistaken and this is a two piece rod, forgive my forgetfulness, Harry Peter McKean wrote: Depends how precise you want to be. Something that works is this :(a) three key guide positions, one about 4" to 4 1/2 " below the tiptop, oneon the butt pretty close to the ferrule, and the stripper a bit less thanhalf way from the butt cap to the ferrule(b) you need one more guide between the stripper and the ferrule guide(c) position them coming back down the tip, each one spaced a bit furtherthan the last(d) put them on with masking tape, try them out, and buggerise about withthem until they're right. -- -- Harry Boyd --http://www.canerods.com/ -- Bamboo Rods -- http://www.fbcwin.com/ -- Our Church -- from petermckean@netspace.net.au Sun Apr 21 07:25:54 2002 g3LCPq403468 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:25:52 - g3LCPjn45708; Subject: Re: Guide Spacing and Size Gary Ooooops! Sorry. Didn't read it well enough. Thanks Harry. Peter from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 21 07:53:07 2002 g3LCr5403978 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:53:05 - Subject: Attn all Green heart nuts Ok all you green heard fishing rod nuts out there I was just at the John Norris web site looking for a spool for this bloody Hardy Princess reel some people seem to think is something other than a cruel joke and noticed in their used gear section quite a few green heart rods. I didn't look too closely because I'm not into this stuff but there was I think a spey rod made for when men were men and didn't know better and a few spinning type rods too.Worth a look if you're interested. The site is:www.JohnNorris.co.uk It's all very proper so mind your manners and have fun. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from aport@si.rr.com Sun Apr 21 08:08:05 2002 g3LD84404306 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:08:04 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:07:51 -0400 , ,,"Adam Vigil" , , Subject: Re: Four string binder Plus.... with a six string, you can play the Blues if it doesn't do a =good job! Ba-DUM-dum, cheeaah ( drum AND cymbals)Art Plus.... with a six string, you can play the Blues if it doesn't do = job! Ba-DUM-dum, cheeaah ( drum AND cymbals)Art from paul.blakley@ntlworld.com Sun Apr 21 08:10:37 2002 g3LDAa404733 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:10:36 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:10:34 +0100 Subject: Re: Attn all Green heart nuts Tony,Do you have to tell EVERYONE where I gets me used gearfrom...........Paul Tony Young wrote: Ok all you green heard fishing rod nuts out there I was just at the JohnNorris web site looking for a spool for this bloody Hardy Princess reelsome people seem to think is something other than a cruel joke and noticedin their used gear section quite a few green heart rods. I didn't look tooclosely because I'm not into this stuff but there was I think a spey rodmade for when men were men and didn't know better and a few spinningtyperods too.Worth a look if you're interested. The site is:www.JohnNorris.co.uk It's all very proper so mind your manners and have fun. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from avyoung@iinet.net.au Sun Apr 21 08:32:47 2002 g3LDWj405549 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:32:46 - Subject: Re: Attn all Green heart nuts Sorry...It's not too bad a place though is it?It's worth looking at for the fly tying gear too. The prices all include VAT which I *THINK* is 17.5% but don't quote me on that. In any case the prices are in pounds so you reduce the price by the VAT which is at least 15% as it's going to be exported then add post and convert into yourcurrency.They have pretty good prices on the Leeda reels. I personally like the Dragon Fly reel. It's a nice weight and nice to use. Tony At 02:07 PM 4/21/02 +0100, paul.blakley wrote: Tony,Do you have to tell EVERYONE where I gets me used gearfrom...........Paul Tony Young wrote: Ok all you green heard fishing rod nuts out there I was just at the JohnNorris web site looking for a spool for this bloody Hardy Princess reelsome people seem to think is something other than a cruel joke andnoticedin their used gear section quite a few green heart rods. I didn't look tooclosely because I'm not into this stuff but there was I think a spey rodmade for when men were men and didn't know better and a few spinningtyperods too.Worth a look if you're interested. The site is:www.JohnNorris.co.uk It's all very proper so mind your manners and have fun. Tony /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ /*************************************************************************/AV Young Visit my web site at: www.iinet.net.au/~avyoung/flyrod.html "Give me ambiguity or give me something else."Some guy I can't remember just now /*************************************************************************/ from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Apr 21 08:44:17 2002 g3LDiB405934 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:44:11 - ([209.179.146.120] helo=computer) id 16zHdR-0000r6-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 06:44:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Wrapping AJ, Bingo! We amateur makers do spend a lot of time on a rod contemplatingwhatis to be done, checking every wrap and double checking and triple checkingall the fine details. It is the journey I guess that a lot of use like. WhenI finish a rod I start on another not because I need another rod but becauseit is another journey. I think all makers need to stop being followers andstart being innovators. We all know how to do it the "Traditional way" ofyears gone by it is time to make some advances and stir things up. I likereading stuff John Bokstrom came up with or Bill Warra, now there are 2guyswho understood rodmakeing is an adventure and not a fanatical fringe cult offollow the leader. The funny things is the Leonard, Payne, Powell were allinnovators not followers. Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Wrapping There is no reason to use silk other than personal preference and tradition. Nylon will go clear just as silk does. Nylon works better for preservedwraps since the changes in varnish and laquer. White shellac gives adifferent look to the silk that can be attractive. It is increasinglydifficult to obtain 2/0 nylon to wrap fly rods these days which is asignificant point in obtaing nice looking wraps with nylon. As to flatwraps, the recent Pearsalls craze wraps just as round as any nylon. Likemany things recently there seems to be the 'bamboo correct' way to buildarod that has no basis in fact or function. As there are many more talentedamateur makers (less than a dozen sales a year) than proffesionals thedictated standards are being driven by builders with virtualy unlimited time to expend on each rod. Great if someone wants the resulting work of art but a tough break if someone wants to buy a cane rod to try one out for threedigits. Use what you want to in other words.A.J. From: "Robert Amundson" Subject: WrappingDate: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 19:09:54 -0600 This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A _________________________________________________________________Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp. from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 21 08:51:05 2002 g3LDp5406218 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:51:05 - (authenticated) Sun, 21 Apr 2002 06:51:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Wrapping Adam, You might add AJ himself to that list of folks who think outside the box!Some of his ideas show lots of creativity and uncommon amounts of commonsense. Harry Adam Vigil wrote: I think all makers need to stop being followers andstart being innovators. We all know how to do it the "Traditional way" ofyears gone by it is time to make some advances and stir things up. I likereading stuff John Bokstrom came up with or Bill Warra, now there are 2guyswho understood rodmakeing is an adventure and not a fanatical fringe cultoffollow the leader. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Apr 21 09:20:29 2002 g3LEKO406910 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:20:24 - ([209.179.146.15] helo=computer) id 16zICG-00053k-00; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:20:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Four string binder Bill, Alas Quads elude me. I like them alright but have not caught the fever yet.When I do I will be cranking out a smithwick binder thats for sure! Adam----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Four string binder Adam, True, but it's death on quads. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message -----From: "Adam Vigil" Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 11:37 PMSubject: Re: Four string binder Bob, If the Garrison style binder is made right and adjust right it will give no twist and no problems. Built mine for less then $25 Adam----- Original Message -----From: Robert Cristant Sent: Friday, April 19, 2002 7:36 AMSubject: Four string binder Hello all, I am interested in your opinions on four string binders.Better than Garrison Binder? Don't bother? Are they too hard to use? All opinions and advice would be greatly appreciated. Robert from wendt@kingcrab.nrl.navy.mil Sun Apr 21 09:36:23 2002 g3LEaM407367 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:36:22 - g3LEaGtx016823 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:36:17 - Subject: Re: Wrapping g3LEaN407368 Bill/M-D, I'd be glad to volunteer to wrap a few of those...... Provided I get to test cast them on one of the local trout streams..... Mark At 08:43 PM 4/20/02 -0500, you wrote: Bill, Let me know when you get the thousand rods done, and I'll see if I can't find some people to helpyou wrap them. ;o) M-D From: "Lamberson, William R." M-D It seems to me that it should be the opposite. If tightly wrapped intermediates increase the poweras has recently been suggested, then the increased tightness of the nylon wrap due to its stretchshould result in a faster than one wrapped with silk. If we built a thousand and measured them, wemight even be able to show a difference. Bill Lamberson Hmmm, good idea, Bill. The List is slow, and AJ's post was entirely too practical, as is the advice"Build it any way you want to." Can anyone substantiate the postulation that the silk, due to it's lower modulus of elasticity(Young's Modulus) than nylon, actually contributes to an increased power curve in the bamboo fly roddue to increased resistance to stretch as the rod attempts to flatten it's profile during thecasting stroke? I submit for your approval that this is the case, and that no one can proveotherwise. >>8^Az M-D From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Nope, that's about it. But, being rod-makers, I'm sure we could generatesome theories. Cheers, Bill From: "Robert Amundson" This is probably a dumb question but could anyone tell me why, besidesbeauty, a rod should be wrapped in silk rather than nylon?ThanksBob A from atlasc1@earthlink.net Sun Apr 21 09:51:07 2002 g3LEp6407909 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 09:51:06 -0500 ([209.179.146.15] helo=computer) id 16zIg5-0002uK-00 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 07:50:58 -0700 Subject: Innovators not Imitators Commentary:(do not freak out) Many rodmakers are imitators and some are innovators. I guess we must =first imitate to gain the skills and experience. I think it would be a =good source of knowledge if we could share some of the innovations we = have learned from others or have come up with ourselves. While there are =many it would be nice if we could each post a couple of things and give =credit to those who deserve it. I think John Bokstrom came up with a lot of ideas. I use his slotted =base dial indicator method for measuring strip dimensions while laying =in the form.Another innovator was Montagne. While I have my own opinions about his =rods it is clearly evident this guy beat his own path when it came to =rodmaking(ugly reels seats though). EC Powell has to be one of my favorite inovators. A california boy =cranking out rods that are unique unto himself. Alright it is Sunday and time to sound off on rodmaking Adam P.S. Patty yourself on the back and spouting off is highly encouraged! Commentary:(do not freak =out) Many rodmakers are imitators andsome = innovators. I guess we must first imitate to gain the skills and = think it would be a good source of knowledge if we could share some of = innovations we have learned from others or have come up with ourselves. = there are many it would be nice if we could each post a couple of things = give credit to those who deserve it. I think John Bokstrom came up with a = dimensions while laying in the form.Another innovator was Montagne. WhileI = opinions about his rods it is clearly evident this guy beat his own path = came to rodmaking(ugly reels seats though). EC Powell has to be one of my favorite= california boy cranking out rods that are unique unto =himself. Alright it is Sunday and time to sound = rodmaking Adam P.S. Patty yourself on the back and = highly encouraged! from fbcwin@3g.quik.com Sun Apr 21 10:15:52 2002 g3LFFp408489 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:15:51 - (authenticated) Sun, 21 Apr 2002 08:15:47 -0700 Subject: Re: Oven fan Dick, Thanks for the suggestion. Our HVAC man stopped by the Church thismorning,just to make sure that all 18 air conditioning units were working correctly. Iasked him about the draft fans, and he promised to look to see if he had onelying around. He agreed that fan would be perfect for my needs. Finally lethimget on with his business of checking out our AC units. Thanks for the suggestion,Harry Dick & Kathy Fuhrman wrote: These assemblies are made to handle the heat of the combustion productsfromthe furnace which can be close to 400ŸF. One of these assemblies would beperfect for what you are considering. Might ask a dealer if he has replacedfan 80%+ furnace lately and if you can have the old Induced Draft FanAssembly. --Harry Boyd http://www.canerods.com/ Bamboo Rodshttp://www.fbcwin.com/ Our Church from wlwalter77us@yahoo.com Sun Apr 21 12:31:04 2002 g3LHV3410608 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:31:03 - Sun, 21 Apr 2002 10:31:02 PDT Subject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) LambersonW@missouri.edu, robertgkope@attbi.com, harms1@pa.net,Adam Vigil , rcristant@isgtransport.com,rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I've been giving some thought to the 2-string ideamyself and am trying to come up with a way to use aSmithwick binder with an inner wheel that wouldcounter rotate inside the larger wheel. Any ideas?Would this require gearing of some kind? Bill W. --- Don Schneider wrote: I've often wondered why we got into 4 string bindersin the first place, whynot 2 string binders? Wouldn't a 2 string offset thetwisting action just aswell ? Anybody ever try one ? Don't get we wrong, usually I believe that if 1/4stick of dynamite will doa good job, a whole stick would be better. A 2 string would be easier to setup and if youreally wanted 4 strings, runit through twice. Also, if a 4 sting is that muchbetter or that much moreof a gadget, why not a 6 string ? We could keepgoing until the strips looklike mummies. Back to my Vodka, Don __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from bob@downandacross.com Sun Apr 21 12:35:06 2002 g3LHZ5410873 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:35:05 - "Don Schneider" , ,, ,"Adam Vigil" , , Subject: RE: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) HI Bill:See Chris Lucker's improved Milward Binder in THE BEST OF THE PLANINGFORM.Great design.Bob -----Original Message----- robertgkope@attbi.com; harms1@pa.net; Adam Vigil;rcristant@isgtransport.com; rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Four string binder (now 2-string Smithwick binder idea) I've been giving some thought to the 2-string ideamyself and am trying to come up with a way to use aSmithwick binder with an inner wheel that wouldcounter rotate inside the larger wheel. Any ideas?Would this require gearing of some kind? Bill W. --- Don Schneider wrote: I've often wondered why we got into 4 string bindersin the first place, whynot 2 string binders? Wouldn't a 2 string offset thetwisting action just aswell ? Anybody ever try one ? Don't get we wrong, usually I believe that if 1/4stick of dynamite will doa good job, a whole stick would be better. A 2 string would be easier to setup and if youreally wanted 4 strings, runit through twice. Also, if a 4 sting is that muchbetter or that much moreof a gadget, why not a 6 string ? We could keepgoing until the strips looklike mummies. Back to my Vodka, Don __________________________________________________Do You Yahoo!?Yahoo! Games - play chess, backgammon, pool and morehttp://games.yahoo.com/ from channer@frontier.net Sun Apr 21 12:49:58 2002 g3LHnw411406 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:49:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Adam;The true innovator was the guy who came up with splitting, shaping andglueing together multiple strips of bamboo to make a fishin pole out of.Not to detract from the many contributions since then, but lets notforget the guy who started it all.john Adam Vigil wrote: Commentary:(do not freak out) Many rodmakers are imitators and some are innovators. I guess we mustfirst imitate to gain the skills and experience. I think it would be agood source of knowledge if we could share some of the innovations wehave learned from others or have come up with ourselves. While thereare many it would be nice if we could each post a couple of things andgive credit to those who deserve it. I think John Bokstrom came up with a lot of ideas. I use his slottedbase dial indicator method for measuring strip dimensions while layingin the form.Another innovator was Montagne. While I have my own opinions about hisrods it is clearly evident this guy beat his own path when it came torodmaking(ugly reels seats though). EC Powell has to be one of my favorite inovators. A california boycranking out rods that are unique unto himself. Alright it is Sunday and time to sound off on rodmaking Adam P.S. Patty yourself on the back and spouting off is highly encouraged! from irish-george@chartermi.net Sun Apr 21 12:50:14 2002 g3LHoE411431 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 12:50:14 - 2002 13:50:13 -0400 Subject: test seems it takes more work to stay on this list than it does to build a =rod... seems it takes more work to stay on = it does to build a rod... from harms1@pa.net Sun Apr 21 13:14:07 2002 g3LIE6412307 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:14:06 - , Subject: Re: Four string binder Robert, Well, I can't imagine what your secret is, but when I wrap quads with myGarrison-type binder, I find the corners "banging" against my cradle- guides.This was especially bad with the butt sections and their larger flats. WhenI adjusted the weight on the drive-string tightly enough to bring the fourstrips together, the corners of the section would scrape dangerously on thecradles. And when I adjusted lightly enough to minimize thebump-bump- bumping, the strips showed glue lines. So the Smithwick binderwas the answer for me--it's worry-free and my sections come out perfectly. Cheers, Bill ----- Original Message ----- ; Subject: Re: Four string binder Really? I'm surprised to hear that. I built a PMQ recently and bound itwith a Garrison style binder (actually my imitation of Al Bellinger'sbinder), with no problems. You also have to realize that the tip of a PMQlooks about like the tip of a standard slotted screwdriver blade when youbind it because you plane the width after binding. What's the problem with a standard 4-strip quad? Do the corners get destroyed? -- Robert----- Original Message -----From: "WILLIAM HARMS" Sent: Saturday, April 20, 2002 7:04 AMSubject: Re: Four string binder Adam, True, but it's death on quads. Cheers, Bill from Troutgetter@aol.com Sun Apr 21 13:52:38 2002 g3LIqb413627 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 13:52:37 -0500 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 14:52:30 -0400 Subject: flex-coat vs. varnish Hi guys!,Quick question. Has anyone ever placed an overcoat of varnish on top of flex-coat? I guess the real question is did it work?TIAMike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Apr 21 15:00:58 2002 g3LK0v414940 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:00:57 -0500 (InterMail vK.4.03.05.00 201-232-132 license180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish Hey Mike. I built that canoe on my website and put 5 coats of marine sparover the epoxy used to fiberglass it.It is recommended for that boat. Don'tknow about the chemical composition of flex/coat. Good luck, Randall G.www.rifflewaterrods.com----- Original Message ----- Subject: flex-coat vs. varnish Hi guys!,Quick question. Has anyone ever placed an overcoat of varnish on top offlex-coat? I guess the real question is did it work?TIAMike Mike's Bamboo Rod ShopMontclair, CAhttp://www.mshaybamboo.gq.nu/ from shane_person@telus.net Sun Apr 21 16:32:56 2002 g3LLWt417125 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:32:55 -0500 (InterMail vM.5.01.04.01 201-253-122-122-101-20011014) with Sun, 21 Apr 2002 15:32:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Adam's post is right on Does anyone know for sure who the guy was thatstarted it all??Shane channer wrote: Adam;The true innovator was the guy who came up with splitting, shaping andglueing together multiple strips of bamboo to make a fishin pole out of.Not to detract from the many contributions since then, but lets notforget the guy who started it all.john Adam Vigil wrote: Commentary:(do not freak out) from joseus@cybertech.com.ar Sun Apr 21 16:34:51 2002 g3LLYo417355 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:34:50 - 0000 Subject: Hola de nuevo Hola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por mucho tiempo. Razones de fuerza=mayor. $$$$ :-)))). No tenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo . =Envio un saludo a todos. Alberto Hello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot of time. Act of God =reasons. $$$$: -)))). Not taenia acseso to internet. I am again. I ship = Hola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por mucho tiempo. Razones de = mayor. $$$$ :-)))). No tenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo . = saludo a todos. AlbertoHello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot of time. Act of God = $$$$: -)))). Not taenia acseso to internet. I am again. I ship a = all. Alberto from goodaple@cox-internet.com Sun Apr 21 16:35:35 2002 g3LLZY417540 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:35:35 -0500 (InterMail vK.4.03.05.00 201-232-132 license180e1de7f543f89455b24e508f9cca39) Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish The canoe is on my Contact info page(at the bottom). The links were a =little out of whack. Let me know if you can't find it, or if something =isn't working correctly. Thanks, Randall G. Subject: Re: flex-coat vs. varnish OK Randall, to paraphrase Eye-GOR in Young Fronkensteeen, WHEREcanoe? =I've been all over your site and can't find it. I'll let you in on a =little secret though; if you hit the buttons at the bottom of the Shop =Shots, nuttin' happens ( you get blank pages).Laytah!Art The canoe is on my Contact infopage(at = bottom). The links were a little out of whack. Let me know if you can't = or if something isn't working correctly. Thanks, Randall G. ----- Original Message ----- Art =Port internet.com = Sent: Sunday, April 21, 2002 = PMSubject: Re: flex-coat vs. =varnish OK Randall, to paraphrase Eye-GOR in Young Fronkensteeen, = I've been all over your site and can't find it. I'll let you in on a = secret though; if you hit the buttons at the bottom of the Shop Shots, = happens ( you get blank pages).Laytah!Art from bdcbfr@chartermi.net Sun Apr 21 16:37:14 2002 g3LLbD417810 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 16:37:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators I think it was Terry A.; or maybe George Gerke. Just ask them! Brian----- Original Message ----- Subject: Re: Innovators not Imitators Adam's post is right on Does anyone know for sure who the guy was thatstarted it all??Shane channer wrote: Adam;The true innovator was the guy who came up with splitting, shaping andglueing together multiple strips of bamboo to make a fishin pole out of.Not to detract from the many contributions since then, but lets notforget the guy who started it all.john Adam Vigil wrote: Commentary:(do not freak out) from jojo@ipa.net Sun Apr 21 17:13:21 2002 g3LMDK418725 for ; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 17:13:20 -0500 helo=default) id 16zPa8-0008LG-00 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Apr 2002 18:13:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Hola de nuevo Alberto, Bienvenido de nuevo a la Lista. Estoy alegre que se ha regresado y que =se tiene aceso al Internet otra vez tambi=E9n. Espero que se tendr=E1 =m=E1s dinero en el futuro. ;o) M-D Alberto, Welcome back to the list. I'm glad that you have returned and that you =have access to the Internet again, too. I hope that you will have more =money in the future. ;o) M-D Subject: Hola de nuevo Hola amigos. Yo estube desconectado por mucho tiempo. Razones de =fuerza mayor. $$$$ :-)))). No tenia acseso a internet. Yo estoy de nuevo =. Envio un saludo a todos. Alberto Hello friends. Me estube disconnected by a lot of time. Act of God =reasons. $$$$: -)))). No