from mlivingston@esri.com Fri Jan 13 16:05:30 1995 Comment: Environmental Systems Research Institute Subject: 2-piece from 3-piece rod I have the remains of my father-in-law's bamboo rod - the top two sections of a 3-piece rod. I considered refinishing the rod and adding a grip and reel seat when someone of FLYFISH@ said it could be done. What I want to know is how functional I can expect this rod to be. I believe the remaining sections measure about 6'. I do fish a lot of remote creeks concealed in trees and brush. How would I determine the weight flyline to use with the rod? PS: If you plan to reply to the list, please reply to me directly as well. I just subscribed to the list a few minutes ago and don't know when I can expect to start receiving posts. Thanks for any help. Mike Livingston Environmental Systems Research Institute, Inc. mlivingston from michael Fri Jan 13 16:42:18 1995 Subject: Re: 2-piece from 3-piece rod Mike Livingston ponders... :-) I have the remains of my father-in-law's bamboo rod - the top two sections of a 3-piece rod. I considered refinishing the rod and adding a grip and reel seat when someone of FLYFISH@ said it could be done. What I want to know is how functional I can expect this rod to be. I believe the remaining sections measure about 6'. I do fish a lot of remote creeks concealed in trees and brush. How would I determine the weight flyline to use with the rod? Interesting question...how to determine line weight for a rod, when you don't know what line the rod was originally designed for, or in your case Mike...what will be a completely different rod. A lot of what I've read says cast different weight lines, until you find one that feels the best!!!? Lot of help that is when you don't have access to a lot of different lines. I then got thinking about the computer program HEXROD. (For those that might not know, Wayne Cattanach came up with this program, based on Garrison's formulae. Wayne distributes the program with his book.) The program allows you enter the taper of your rod, a line weight, and dimensions. It will then graph a stress curve. My thought was that if you ran the program several times, each time using a different line weight and keeping everything else the same, you could look at the resultant stress curves, and get pretty close idea what line weight comes closest to the curve you want. So...to answer a question with another question... does anyone have any idea if this hairbrained theory would work? :-) Mike Biondo St. Louis, Mo. ps: Mike, if you can get your hands on a micrometer, why don't mic your rod, and I'll be happy to run the dimensions through my copy HEXROD. from mlivingston@esri.com Fri Jan 13 16:58:24 1995 Comment: Environmental Systems Research Institute Subject: 2-piece from 3-piece rod Mike, Thanks for the direction. I'll see whether I can dig up a micrometer and report back Monday with the particulars. -mike Mike Livingston Environmental Systems Research Institute, Inc. mlivingston@esri.com from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Jan 13 19:59:02 1995 Subject: Garrison's Formulae Mike, In response to Mike Livingstone's question re: What weight line for agiven rod, you mentioned Garrison's formulae & Wayne's book containing Hexrod. First of all, where can one obtain the aforementioned formulae (possiblyfor inclusion in a program for personal use). I'm familiar w/ Wayne's book through various reviews, although now it seems like a possible purchase. Thanks, Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu from CFung@aol.com Sat Jan 14 20:59:28 1995 Subject: flexcoat cracks Rod builders:what would cause the flex coat to crack right ar the juctionof the graphite and silver nickel ferrule on both ends of the ferrule? Is this a structural problem which will cause the rod to fail? Is it just cosmetic? thanks in advance email cfung@AOL.com from reed@speedy.palette.com Mon Jan 16 06:52:37 1995 Subject: Re: 2-piece from 3-piece rod Mike Biondo suggests determining line weight by using HEXROD. I wonder how practical that is? Cane, being organic, will differ culm toculm. And the builder may use more power fiber, more flaming, etc. It wouldseem to me that only by holding the blank could one assess that line weight. As anexample, last week I decided to strip down a much worked over, no-name Calcuttacane 8.5' 3/2 rod that had always had a very pleasant parabolic 5wt. action. The rodhad last been treated by someone with an intermediate fetish. There were .25" intermediates every inch (nicely done but the same fellow had put theguides on spaced badly) so that more than 10-15% of the rod was wrapped. I had twoheavy overcoats of varnish to remove as well. I hoped when I finished to have a lighter, crisper parabolic 4-5wt. Well, the result was a lighter, crisper, tip-action 4wt. A very uninspired rod, no-fun at all. And the taper was unchanged, but several other vaiables were dramatically altered. Just a thought. reed curry reed@palette.com from reed@speedy.palette.com Mon Jan 16 12:53:03 1995 Subject: Books Encyclopedia. I heartily recommend this book, the 30+ pages on rod-building include instructions on making a rod-binder and planing forms, as well assome interesting points on tapers and 5 vs 6 sided construction. A.J. McClane produced this volume before going on to edit the NEW Standard Fishing Excyclopedia. Ken said aprrox. $15 depending on condition. I am in no way affiliated with Callahan & Co., he just has good, hard to find volumes. reed curry PS - He also has 2 copies of Fraziers book on Rodmaking, 1 copy ofHolden's book, etc. But these aren't cheap. from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Mon Jan 16 13:10:58 1995 Subject: newbie questions Making a bamboo rod has been a dream of mine for about six months,but I anticipate another year of planning and preparation before I begin. Meanwhile, I have read three books (Kreider, Carmichael and Cattanach inthat order) and generated a few questions. 1) Cattanach puts a "shim between the tongue and surfaces that it seatagainst" before he dresses the sole of his plane. I guess I don't understandwhere the tongue is and what this will accomplish. 2) Cattanach mentions the Conover wood scraper but does not mention asource or price. Is it still available? 3) Has anyone modified Cattanach's program so that it will write to a filewhich could be imported into a spreadsheet program for immediategraphing? If so, are you willing to share a copy? 4) Has anyone purchased Frank Armbruster's $250 Colorado Bootstrapplaning form? Are you pleased with it? 5) Is there a source for a ready made rod binder? 6) Has anyone purchased the 30 minute video about rodmaker FrancisDegere? Is it helpful in explaining techniques? 7) Would it be a violation of the list principles to ask Cattanach (orothers) to post some of the specifications about the lessons he provides? Grayson Davis (219) 464-5385 GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Department of Biology Valparaiso University (Alma Mater of Ernie Schwiebert) Valparaiso, Indiana 46383 (home town of Orville Reddenbacher) So far as I can tell, no bamboo rodmakers have ever lived here. from CFung@aol.com Mon Jan 16 22:35:13 1995 Subject: starter kits I'm starting my first rod. I have 4 now its time to start building my own. Do I really need more...well yes! I can't cook with just one pot so what makes me think I can fish with just one rod? Anyone know of a cheapstarter kit with all the needed supplies so I can destroy I mean build my firstrod? Thanks in advance from reed@speedy.palette.com Tue Jan 17 07:44:26 1995 Subject: removing varnish Just thought I'd send a hint for anyone intent on restoring a cane rod.Instead of scraping the rod to remove old varnish (this can ruin edges) I suggestthe following which I have used on historic artifacts and Leonard rods. Thevirtue of this approach is that often the original varnish can be rejuvenatedwithout affecting windings or intermediates. Most of the varnish used by the better makers was a resin varnish in aturps base. When dry, this varnish is immune to the action of turps but yieldsreadily to alcohol. A preparation of 2 parts turps (or odorless paint cleaner) toslow evaporation and 1 part methyl hydrate (ethanol is better (safer) but hardto obtain) should be sufficient to "cut" the varnish. Dampen (dont saturate) a clean, lint-free cotton cloth with the mix and gently rub the cane. Youshould notice some dirt and old varnish coming onto the cloth. If you don't,increase the proportion of methyl h. until you do. Varnish which is slightly crazedcan be smoothed out. Should it be necessary to remove all the old varnish, usemore methyl h. but don't saturate the cane. Seldom will intermediates beloosened by the necessary rubbing. reed curry from BNUTTALL@FIDO.MM.UKY.EDU Tue Jan 17 08:19:29 1995 Subject: Line weight of unknown rods I had a similar situation. I have two bamboo rods that were in my father's estate. I took up fly fishing after his death and never talked to him about the rods. (Frankly, I don't think he ever fished with them and had gottenthem from his father.) I attended open houses at several local fly shops and was able to tryseveral different line weights then. I also ran into a older gentleman rodmaker. He informed me, after examining the rod, that it was the equivalent of a 7WT. I had determined this by casting different lines. The whole thing boilsdown to trial and error and just ask someone. Brandon C. Nuttall K K GGGG SSSS BNUTTALL@FIDO.MM.UKY.EDU Kentucky Geological Survey KKK G SS (606) 257-5500 University of Kentucky KKK G GG SS 228 Mining & Mineral Resources Bldg K K GGGG SSSS Lexington, Kentucky 40506-0107 from michael Tue Jan 17 08:33:55 1995 Subject: Re: Books Reed Curry says... Encyclopedia. I heartily recommend this book, the 30+ pages on rod-building include instructions on making a rod-binder and planing forms, as well assome interesting points on tapers and 5 vs 6 sided construction. A.J. McClane produced this volume before going on to edit the NEW Standard Fishing Excyclopedia. Reed turned me on the this book also, and I heartily agree. An excellent value at $15.00 The section on bamboo rodmaking appears to have been written by Claude Krieder, who has also written a complete book on the subject. I also found Ken Callahan & Co. extremely helpful and a pleasure to deal with. Not many companies these days that will send a individual the merchandise, saying: 'Just send me check when you get the book' Mike- from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jan 17 08:40:02 1995 Subject: Re: newbie Answers Making a bamboo rod has been a dream of mine for about six months,but I anticipate another year of planning and preparation before I begin. Meanwhile, I have read three books (Kreider, Carmichael and Cattanach in that order) and generated a few questions. 1) Cattanach puts a "shim between the tongue and surfaces that it seat against" before he dresses the sole of his plane. I guess I don't understand where the tongue is and what this will accomplish. A)By shimming the surface that the front foot seats against - after thesole is surfaced and the shims removed the front foot is then recessed by the thickness of the shim - This allows the blade to be adjusted up so that it isn't below the surface of the sole and helps prevent planing metal whenyou are down to the last few thousanths 2) Cattanach mentions the Conover wood scraper but does not mention asource or price. Is it still available? A) Ernie Conover sold his company a few years ago and it has been resoldand broken up a few more times - I am in the process of tracking down asource 3) Has anyone modified Cattanach's program so that it will write to a file which could be imported into a spreadsheet program for immediategraphing? If so, are you willing to share a copy? A) Hexrod was wrote 12 years ago - at that time hard drives were veryscarce - I eventually am going to rewrite the program and include several new - IF ANYONE WANTS A COPY OF THE BASIC LISTING I WILL PROVIDE(ONDISKETTE) 4) Has anyone purchased Frank Armbruster's $250 Colorado Bootstrapplaning form? Are you pleased with it? A) I have used them in my classes and they are as good as the others in the same price range - but fine tuning may be required to forms in this rice range 5) Is there a source for a ready made rod binder? A) not yet but it is coming 6) Has anyone purchased the 30 minute video about rodmaker FrancisDegere? Is it helpful in explaining techniques? A) The video is good for entertainment but teaches little about the craft -I hope to have a video done very soon - It will be in the 4 - 6 hour play time - I just need some time to edit the raw tapes 7) Would it be a violation of the list principles to ask Cattanach (or others) to post some of the specifications about the lessons he provides? A) I will personally e-mail information to those interested in up coming workshops and classes Wayne Catt@AOL.COM Wayne from michael Tue Jan 17 09:39:59 1995 Subject: Re: Address request Mike Ells asked about how to contact Ken Callahan & Co... Reed Curry provided me with the following number, thought I'd let the rest of list know also: Callahan & Co. -- (603) 924-3726 Thanks Reed! Mike- from reed@speedy.palette.com Thu Feb 2 11:00:29 1995 Subject: Re: 95 Eastern Gathering I have restored two Calcutta cane rods; an 8'5" and a 10'. I was impressed the texture of the material, far less coarse than Tonkin. I seem to recall reading of some old makers that preferred Calcutta; and in readingFrazer's book Amatuer Rodbuilding (1914) he praises Calcutta and states that Tonkinhas replaced it for reasons of economy (so much waste with Calcutta). Has anyone else on the list worked with Calcutta cane? Experiences? Howdoes it handle heat treatment? reed curry reed@palette.com from mlivingston@esri.com Fri Jan 13 16:05:30 1995 Comment: Environmental Systems Research Institute Subject: 2-piece from 3-piece rod I have the remains of my father-in-law's bamboo rod - the top two sections of a 3-piece rod. I considered refinishing the rod and adding a grip and reel seat when someone of FLYFISH@ said it could be done. What I want to know is how functional I can expect this rod to be. I believe the remaining sections measure about 6'. I do fish a lot of remote creeks concealed in trees and brush. How would I determine the weight flyline to use with the rod? PS: If you plan to reply to the list, please reply to me directly as well. I just subscribed to the list a few minutes ago and don't know when I can expect to start receiving posts. Thanks for any help. Mike Livingston Environmental Systems Research Institute, Inc. mlivingston from michael Fri Jan 13 16:42:18 1995 Subject: Re: 2-piece from 3-piece rod Mike Livingston ponders... :-) I have the remains of my father-in-law's bamboo rod - the top two sections of a 3-piece rod. I considered refinishing the rod and adding a grip and reel seat when someone of FLYFISH@ said it could be done. What I want to know is how functional I can expect this rod to be. I believe the remaining sections measure about 6'. I do fish a lot of remote creeks concealed in trees and brush. How would I determine the weight flyline to use with the rod? Interesting question...how to determine line weight for a rod, when you don't know what line the rod was originally designed for, or in your case Mike...what will be a completely different rod. A lot of what I've read says cast different weight lines, until you find one that feels the best!!!? Lot of help that is when you don't have access to a lot of different lines. I then got thinking about the computer program HEXROD. (For those that might not know, Wayne Cattanach came up with this program, based on Garrison's formulae. Wayne distributes the program with his book.) The program allows you enter the taper of your rod, a line weight, and dimensions. It will then graph a stress curve. My thought was that if you ran the program several times, each time using a different line weight and keeping everything else the same, you could look at the resultant stress curves, and get pretty close idea what line weight comes closest to the curve you want. So...to answer a question with another question... does anyone have any idea if this hairbrained theory would work? :-) Mike Biondo St. Louis, Mo. ps: Mike, if you can get your hands on a micrometer, why don't mic your rod, and I'll be happy to run the dimensions through my copy HEXROD. from mlivingston@esri.com Fri Jan 13 16:58:24 1995 Comment: Environmental Systems Research Institute Subject: 2-piece from 3-piece rod Mike, Thanks for the direction. I'll see whether I can dig up a micrometer and report back Monday with the particulars. -mike Mike Livingston Environmental Systems Research Institute, Inc. mlivingston@esri.com from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Jan 13 19:59:02 1995 Subject: Garrison's Formulae Mike, In response to Mike Livingstone's question re: What weight line for agiven rod, you mentioned Garrison's formulae & Wayne's book containing Hexrod. First of all, where can one obtain the aforementioned formulae (possiblyfor inclusion in a program for personal use). I'm familiar w/ Wayne's book through various reviews, although now it seems like a possible purchase. Thanks, Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu from CFung@aol.com Sat Jan 14 20:59:28 1995 Subject: flexcoat cracks Rod builders:what would cause the flex coat to crack right ar the juctionof the graphite and silver nickel ferrule on both ends of the ferrule? Is this a structural problem which will cause the rod to fail? Is it just cosmetic? thanks in advance email cfung@AOL.com from reed@speedy.palette.com Mon Jan 16 06:52:37 1995 Subject: Re: 2-piece from 3-piece rod Mike Biondo suggests determining line weight by using HEXROD. I wonder how practical that is? Cane, being organic, will differ culm toculm. And the builder may use more power fiber, more flaming, etc. It wouldseem to me that only by holding the blank could one assess that line weight. As anexample, last week I decided to strip down a much worked over, no-name Calcuttacane 8.5' 3/2 rod that had always had a very pleasant parabolic 5wt. action. The rodhad last been treated by someone with an intermediate fetish. There were .25" intermediates every inch (nicely done but the same fellow had put theguides on spaced badly) so that more than 10-15% of the rod was wrapped. I had twoheavy overcoats of varnish to remove as well. I hoped when I finished to have a lighter, crisper parabolic 4-5wt. Well, the result was a lighter, crisper, tip-action 4wt. A very uninspired rod, no-fun at all. And the taper was unchanged, but several other vaiables were dramatically altered. Just a thought. reed curry reed@palette.com from reed@speedy.palette.com Mon Jan 16 12:53:03 1995 Subject: Books Encyclopedia. I heartily recommend this book, the 30+ pages on rod-building include instructions on making a rod-binder and planing forms, as well assome interesting points on tapers and 5 vs 6 sided construction. A.J. McClane produced this volume before going on to edit the NEW Standard Fishing Excyclopedia. Ken said aprrox. $15 depending on condition. I am in no way affiliated with Callahan & Co., he just has good, hard to find volumes. reed curry PS - He also has 2 copies of Fraziers book on Rodmaking, 1 copy ofHolden's book, etc. But these aren't cheap. from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Mon Jan 16 13:10:58 1995 Subject: newbie questions Making a bamboo rod has been a dream of mine for about six months,but I anticipate another year of planning and preparation before I begin. Meanwhile, I have read three books (Kreider, Carmichael and Cattanach inthat order) and generated a few questions. 1) Cattanach puts a "shim between the tongue and surfaces that it seatagainst" before he dresses the sole of his plane. I guess I don't understandwhere the tongue is and what this will accomplish. 2) Cattanach mentions the Conover wood scraper but does not mention asource or price. Is it still available? 3) Has anyone modified Cattanach's program so that it will write to a filewhich could be imported into a spreadsheet program for immediategraphing? If so, are you willing to share a copy? 4) Has anyone purchased Frank Armbruster's $250 Colorado Bootstrapplaning form? Are you pleased with it? 5) Is there a source for a ready made rod binder? 6) Has anyone purchased the 30 minute video about rodmaker FrancisDegere? Is it helpful in explaining techniques? 7) Would it be a violation of the list principles to ask Cattanach (orothers) to post some of the specifications about the lessons he provides? Grayson Davis (219) 464-5385 GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Department of Biology Valparaiso University (Alma Mater of Ernie Schwiebert) Valparaiso, Indiana 46383 (home town of Orville Reddenbacher) So far as I can tell, no bamboo rodmakers have ever lived here. from CFung@aol.com Mon Jan 16 22:35:13 1995 Subject: starter kits I'm starting my first rod. I have 4 now its time to start building my own. Do I really need more...well yes! I can't cook with just one pot so what makes me think I can fish with just one rod? Anyone know of a cheapstarter kit with all the needed supplies so I can destroy I mean build my firstrod? Thanks in advance from reed@speedy.palette.com Tue Jan 17 07:44:26 1995 Subject: removing varnish Just thought I'd send a hint for anyone intent on restoring a cane rod.Instead of scraping the rod to remove old varnish (this can ruin edges) I suggestthe following which I have used on historic artifacts and Leonard rods. Thevirtue of this approach is that often the original varnish can be rejuvenatedwithout affecting windings or intermediates. Most of the varnish used by the better makers was a resin varnish in aturps base. When dry, this varnish is immune to the action of turps but yieldsreadily to alcohol. A preparation of 2 parts turps (or odorless paint cleaner) toslow evaporation and 1 part methyl hydrate (ethanol is better (safer) but hardto obtain) should be sufficient to "cut" the varnish. Dampen (dont saturate) a clean, lint-free cotton cloth with the mix and gently rub the cane. Youshould notice some dirt and old varnish coming onto the cloth. If you don't,increase the proportion of methyl h. until you do. Varnish which is slightly crazedcan be smoothed out. Should it be necessary to remove all the old varnish, usemore methyl h. but don't saturate the cane. Seldom will intermediates beloosened by the necessary rubbing. reed curry from BNUTTALL@FIDO.MM.UKY.EDU Tue Jan 17 08:19:29 1995 Subject: Line weight of unknown rods I had a similar situation. I have two bamboo rods that were in my father's estate. I took up fly fishing after his death and never talked to him about the rods. (Frankly, I don't think he ever fished with them and had gottenthem from his father.) I attended open houses at several local fly shops and was able to tryseveral different line weights then. I also ran into a older gentleman rodmaker. He informed me, after examining the rod, that it was the equivalent of a 7WT. I had determined this by casting different lines. The whole thing boilsdown to trial and error and just ask someone. Brandon C. Nuttall K K GGGG SSSS BNUTTALL@FIDO.MM.UKY.EDU Kentucky Geological Survey KKK G SS (606) 257-5500 University of Kentucky KKK G GG SS 228 Mining & Mineral Resources Bldg K K GGGG SSSS Lexington, Kentucky 40506-0107 from michael Tue Jan 17 08:33:55 1995 Subject: Re: Books Reed Curry says... Encyclopedia. I heartily recommend this book, the 30+ pages on rod-building include instructions on making a rod-binder and planing forms, as well assome interesting points on tapers and 5 vs 6 sided construction. A.J. McClane produced this volume before going on to edit the NEW Standard Fishing Excyclopedia. Reed turned me on the this book also, and I heartily agree. An excellent value at $15.00 The section on bamboo rodmaking appears to have been written by Claude Krieder, who has also written a complete book on the subject. I also found Ken Callahan & Co. extremely helpful and a pleasure to deal with. Not many companies these days that will send a individual the merchandise, saying: 'Just send me check when you get the book' Mike- from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jan 17 08:40:02 1995 Subject: Re: newbie Answers Making a bamboo rod has been a dream of mine for about six months,but I anticipate another year of planning and preparation before I begin. Meanwhile, I have read three books (Kreider, Carmichael and Cattanach in that order) and generated a few questions. 1) Cattanach puts a "shim between the tongue and surfaces that it seat against" before he dresses the sole of his plane. I guess I don't understand where the tongue is and what this will accomplish. A)By shimming the surface that the front foot seats against - after thesole is surfaced and the shims removed the front foot is then recessed by the thickness of the shim - This allows the blade to be adjusted up so that it isn't below the surface of the sole and helps prevent planing metal whenyou are down to the last few thousanths 2) Cattanach mentions the Conover wood scraper but does not mention asource or price. Is it still available? A) Ernie Conover sold his company a few years ago and it has been resoldand broken up a few more times - I am in the process of tracking down asource 3) Has anyone modified Cattanach's program so that it will write to a file which could be imported into a spreadsheet program for immediategraphing? If so, are you willing to share a copy? A) Hexrod was wrote 12 years ago - at that time hard drives were veryscarce - I eventually am going to rewrite the program and include several new - IF ANYONE WANTS A COPY OF THE BASIC LISTING I WILL PROVIDE(ONDISKETTE) 4) Has anyone purchased Frank Armbruster's $250 Colorado Bootstrapplaning form? Are you pleased with it? A) I have used them in my classes and they are as good as the others in the same price range - but fine tuning may be required to forms in this rice range 5) Is there a source for a ready made rod binder? A) not yet but it is coming 6) Has anyone purchased the 30 minute video about rodmaker FrancisDegere? Is it helpful in explaining techniques? A) The video is good for entertainment but teaches little about the craft -I hope to have a video done very soon - It will be in the 4 - 6 hour play time - I just need some time to edit the raw tapes 7) Would it be a violation of the list principles to ask Cattanach (or others) to post some of the specifications about the lessons he provides? A) I will personally e-mail information to those interested in up coming workshops and classes Wayne Catt@AOL.COM Wayne from michael Tue Jan 17 09:39:59 1995 Subject: Re: Address request Mike Ells asked about how to contact Ken Callahan & Co... Reed Curry provided me with the following number, thought I'd let the rest of list know also: Callahan & Co. -- (603) 924-3726 Thanks Reed! Mike- from reed@speedy.palette.com Thu Feb 2 11:00:29 1995 Subject: Re: 95 Eastern Gathering I have restored two Calcutta cane rods; an 8'5" and a 10'. I was impressed the texture of the material, far less coarse than Tonkin. I seem to recall reading of some old makers that preferred Calcutta; and in readingFrazer's book Amatuer Rodbuilding (1914) he praises Calcutta and states that Tonkinhas replaced it for reasons of economy (so much waste with Calcutta). Has anyone else on the list worked with Calcutta cane? Experiences? Howdoes it handle heat treatment? reed curry reed@palette.com