from rcurry@jlc.net Wed Apr 5 17:16:46 1995 Subject: Fitting Ferrules From: rcurry@jlc.net (Curry) Subject: Fitting Ferrules Cc: Bcc: X-Attachments: I talked with Sam Carlson last night about ferrules. Sam had somevaluable observations which I thought I would pass along. Sam makes his own ferrules from NS tubing. The males are drawn to .001" greater than the females. Welts are applied with cold solder. The females are always exactly spot on (e.g., a 12 is .1875"). He handed me a ferrule and a steel test rod miked at .1875 and the steel pushed in nicely and if withdrawn part way and released the suction pulled it tight again. Sam considers this a good fit. He said that the practice of many makers (e.g., Edwards, Thomas, etc.) was to size the males to the females withoutconcern just any butt; its best fit would be with the butt it was fitted to explicitly. He is sceptical of turned ferrules that fit "off the shelf". He believes the turning grooves left from the feed should always be removed. Sam believes that all male ferrules are slightly (ten thousandth??)tapered after fitting because of the hand filing involved. Sam uses a range of 3 6cut files for his fitting. THe most worn seems smooth as glass. reed curry rcurry@jlc.com from rcurry@jlc.net Fri Apr 7 19:39:17 1995 Subject: Fitting Ferrules I talked with Sam Carlson last night about ferrules. Sam had somevaluable observations which I thought I would pass along. Sam makes his own ferrules from NS tubing. The males are drawn to .001" greater than the females. Welts are applied with cold solder. The females are always exactly spot on (e.g., a 12 is .1875"). He handed me a ferrule and a steel test rod miked at .1875 and the steel pushed in nicely and if withdrawn part way and released the suction pulled it tight again. Sam considers this a good fit. He said that the practice of many makers (e.g., Edwards, Thomas, etc.) was to size the males to the females withoutconcern just any butt; its best fit would be with the butt it was fitted to explicitly. He is sceptical of turned ferrules that fit "off the shelf". He believes the turning grooves left from the feed should always be removed. Sam believes that all male ferrules are slightly (ten thousandth??)tapered after fitting because of the hand filing involved. Sam uses a range of 3 6cut files for his fitting. THe most worn seemssmooth as glass. reed curry rcurry@jlc.com from rcurry@jlc.net Fri Apr 7 20:26:09 1995 Subject: Step down and varnishing windings Further from conversations with Sam Carlson. (Is "Sam says" gettingboring? Understand please that Sam is a very modest man, he is not didactic or pedantic. I hope I am not giving the wrong impression of him.) Sam questioned the old wisdom of one 64th step between sections (e.g.,the butt measures 14/64th at the ferrule, the tip 13/64 at the male ferrule).He has often found that no step gave him a good taper, other times he would step more than 1/64th. On the subject of varnishing windings, Sam said he used shellac as a color preservative for many years, until the day that the varnish peeled off the threads. Since then he has used no color preservative and puts 5 coats of thinned (50%) Cosmo spar on his windings before dipping. What is the consensus on color preservative? I usually don't use it but sometimes Iwant a certain effect that would be ruined by translucent windings, then I use thinned lacquer. Payne, F.E. Thomas and may others used shellac or lacquer. John Alden Knight in "Field Book of Fresh-water Angling" (good rodbuilding section) advises against it, as do some others. Debate???? Sam showed me a Gene Edwards rod that was made with Louisiana cane. Apparently, during cane shortages, Gene would use some domestic cane in spinning rods. He would sometimes mix it with Tonkin in other rods. The nodes are quite different from Tonkin. reed curry rcurry@jlc.net from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Apr 8 18:59:47 1995 Subject: ferrule sizes? Ocassionally in the older angling literature one sees rods described as a "#4 ferrule" or a "#1/0 ferrule", etc. Given that these tell the reader the diameters of the rods at the ferrules, (24/64 and 12/64, respectively)this system has some merit. However, I am flummoxed in finding a number fora 13/64 or 20/64. What was the purpose of this system? Why not use64ths? Any ideas? reed curry rcurry@jlc.net from gelinas@ekman.unh.edu Mon Apr 10 07:36:25 1995 Subject: coming unglued Content-Length: 544 I'm rebuilding an old cane rod, and noticed that the bamboo strips just below the tip-top are no longer glued together. The area is about 3" below the tip, and is about 4" long. I would sure appreciate suggestions as to how to repair that. Note that the rod is not of any value except as a fishing device, so aesthetics are secondary to structural. I apologize if this has been recently covered; I'm not really a bamboo rodmaker (yet) so haven't been following the threads, so to speak. Thanks. Russell Gelinas gelinas@ekman.unh.edu from michael Mon Apr 10 09:18:24 1995 Subject: Re: Step down and varnishing windings Reed was saying... Further from conversations with Sam Carlson. (Is "Sam says" gettingboring? Understand please that Sam is a very modest man, he is not didactic or pedantic. I hope I am not giving the wrong impression of him.) Reed, have you mentioned to Sam, that you are sharing some of your talks with the rest of us on the net? If so, please pass along mine, as I'm sure the rest of our thanks, for sharing his knowledge. I for one am really appreciative of rodmakes such has Wayne Cattanach and Sam Carlson, who so unselfishly share their knowledge and expertise. Thank You, gentlemen!!! Sam questioned the old wisdom of one 64th step between sections (e.g.,the butt measures 14/64th at the ferrule, the tip 13/64 at the male ferrule).He has often found that no step gave him a good taper, other times he would step more than 1/64th. Speaking of joining rod sections...in reading one of the older rodmaking texts (yeah, I know, real descriptive...sorry, don't have my notes here :-) that as an alternative to ferrules, the ends of the two rod sections to _______\ \_____ the actual cuts appearing to be more like about 20 degrees. Then when one wanted to use the rod, the two sections were put together and then wrapped with a rawhide throng to hold them together. In later years, the rawhide was replaced with a tape of some sort. Has anyone ever heard of this, or tried it? I seems like if one wants the feel of a one-piece rod, this would be one way to do it. Sam showed me a Gene Edwards rod that was made with Louisiana cane. Apparently, during cane shortages, Gene would use some domestic cane in spinning rods. He would sometimes mix it with Tonkin in other rods. The nodes are quite different from Tonkin. I also read about how years ago, trying to grow the same spieces of cane as what is known as 'Tonkin' cane, in Louisiana. Does anyone know if cane is still being grown in Louisiana? Mike- from reed@speedy.palette.com Mon Apr 10 10:27:26 1995 Subject: Spliced rods that as an alternative to ferrules, the ends of the two rod sections to _______\ \_____ the actual cuts appearing to be more like about 20 degrees. Then when one wanted to use the rod, the two sections were put together and then wrapped with a rawhide throng to hold them together. In later years, the rawhide was replaced with a tape of some sort. Has anyone ever heard of this, or tried it? I seems like if one wants the feel of a one-piece rod, this would be one way to do it. Why doesn't Terje give us a dissertation on spliced rods. I believe he usesthem occasionally. I, for one, would appreciate hearing from anyone who hasused this type of joinery. reed reed@palette.com from tert@cc.uib.no Tue Apr 11 09:00:40 1995 Subject: Re: Step down and varnishing windings Speaking of joining rod sections...in reading one of the older rodmaking texts (yeah, I know, real descriptive...sorry, don't have my notes here :-) that as an alternative to ferrules, the ends of the two rod sections to _______=AF =AF_____ the actual cuts appearing to be more like about 20 degrees. Then when one wanted to use the rod, the two sections were put together and then wrapped with a rawhide throng to hold them together. In later years, the rawhide was replaced with a tape of some sort. Has anyone ever heard of this, or tried it? I seems like if one wants the feel of a one-piece rod, this would be one way to do it. In UK there was a tradition of making spliced rods of greeheart and split cane, especially long spey rods. Spey casting with cane required solid ferrues in order to keep the ferrules from twisting. A simple solution to this problem was splicing the joint as Mike mentions. The only maker, as far as I know, which continued with spliced rods in "modern" time, was Sharpe in Aberdeen, Scotland. Sharpe was taken over by new owners (late 70s?) and moved to England. I think they no longer make the spliced rods. The 13 footer was their last one to be produced only a few years ago. During the fifties and sixties, Sharpe became very popular with thespliced rods. Their "Scottie" and "Aberdeen" series of rods consisted of 9' #6, 10' #7/8, 12' #8/9, 13' #9/10, 14' #10/11 and 15' #11/12. They also made 8'and 16' on special order. All the rods were made of impregnated cane. The joints were swelled to support the twisting power. They definitely feel like one piece rods and are *excellent* for roll and spey casting. The rods had a renaissance in the seventies and eighties after the Swedish angler Jan Johansson published his salmon and sea trout books where he recommended them of all his heart. Spey casting became popular and the tackle dealers in the UK sold lots of Sharpe rods to Scandinavia. I fish with the 10' one-handed rod for salmon in small rivers and with the 14' and 15' in bigger rivers. The 10' is heavy for my arm but is a magic wand (according to my dictionary) with a spey line and it allows me to hit quite exactly where I want to place the fly. The 14' is not heavy at all with two hands and is my number one salmon rod. I have fished withseveral 14 footers and there seems to be a difference in action from one rod to another. My present one is a lot stiffer than the rest of the ones I have tried and I have no problems with overhead casts as well. The 15' is heavier and only used with sinking line on heavy spring water. I wrap the joints with modern electrical tape (correct terms?) whichmust not be too adhesive since this could remove fractions of cane when taking it off. I reuse the piece of tape from time to time. I suppose impregnated cane is best for this kind of joints since the joining flats are under heavy pressure which would destroy the varnished surface on ordinarycane. Also, isn't impregnated cane less fast and thus more suited for spey casting? Some recent rod builders have tried to make spliced rods, I know. Unfortunately I do not know their names. --Terje Tveras, Univ. of Bergen, Norway tert@cc.uib.no