from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 1 12:48:27 1995 Subject: Rod Actions (again) Hello Folks,At the risk of starting this whole discussion again,I just finished a 7' 0" 3 or 4 wt. split cane rod for myfather. This is rod number four for me, and the firstmade from a taper formula from Wayne Cattanach'sbook. Up until now I used tapers from the Garrisonbook. I haven't made the same Garrison counterpart to thisrod, but comparing the general action of a 8' 0" 5wtGarrison rod to the action of this 7' 0" Cattanach 3wt,I much prefer the Cattanach taper to the Garrison taper. I was intrigued enough to graph both tapers to visuallysee the differences in the tapers. The Garrison tapersare a straight line with a constant slope. The Cattanachtaper has three distinct sections where the slope of theline changes. Casting the Cattanach taper seems to bearout this observation. Casting up close, with a little line outstill loads the rod enough to cast effectively. When I try tocast a longer line, the rod doesn't bend way down to the handle(although I hear some people prefer it this way), and when Ireally try for a long cast the rod still doesn't feel like it's reachedit's limit. My conclusions are, for my casting style, the Cattanach tapersare better than the Garrison tapers. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 1 13:20:11 1995 Subject: Re: Titebond II It appears the following message was bounced by this LISTPROC. Thought I would re-send it...sorry if it's a duplicate. Mike-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-= Subject: Re: Titebond II Some thoughts on Varnish I have had great success with several brands of high quality marine grade varnish applied with a .5 inch foam brush(I can see eyesrolling now). Seriously, if done with the same care as the rest of theproject it looks as good as the dipping tube method. I first put onecoat on the blank with ferrules in place then wrap the guides. Putsix coats on the guides then one final coat on the entire rod. Try it! and varnished the rest of the rod. Caution varnish does not adhere toepoxy well. In the long run I'm not sure if there is an advantage to thismethod. I am currently doing a cane rod with single footed Fugi guidesthat I am using rod finish on for better holding power(I think anycomments) from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 1 17:33:06 1995 Subject: Thoughts on Varnish I read John L Whites "bounced" mail with interest. The part of his mail about the eyes rolling and also goingback to issue 33 of the Planing Form in Tom Smithwick's article on usinga cabinet scraper, the response he got when he told somebody he did notuse sandpaper. This got me to thinking. We need people to try new ideasand push the envelope of what we can do. Let them try and good thingswillhappen. There is a school of us that wants to turn rodmaking into anart form. But where is the art? in the fishability / castability of therod or the looks. Or is it a combination of both. Somebody once saidbeauty is in the eye of the beholder. I learn alot from the experimentsof other's. It gives me ideas to try. I'll have my first nodeless ferruledblank by the weekend due to other's "crazy" ideas. My next rod will be a nodeless / hollow fluted rod good for green trout. Let people try new access to this information. In the past it was trade secrets. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 8 12:04:09 1995 Subject: Anglers Workshop Can anyone out there give me the address/phone of Anglers Workshop.I would greatly appreciate it. dolan spitlerdolan.spitler@hq.doe.gov from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 8 12:25:30 1995 Subject: Trout Bum II The talk on the deck of The Fly Factory last night was that the TroutBum BBQ II would be held the weekend following Fathers Day next yearwhich Ibelieve would be June 22,1996. I have tried to reach Ron who does theplanning for the rod makers gatherings - but he has been away - so I don'tknow what his feelings are but I'm sure that there will be enoughinterestedto have some kind of gathering.I will see several of the group again this weekend and will run it bythem. Miles Tiernan now has a dilema after the last time. Cheryl nowwantsMiles to make her a rod and to build a boat by next years festivities. WellI'm sure that that will cut into the fishing time.When I last talked with Ron - The subject of several (moreregionalized)gatherings came up. He felt as I did that there would be more and that noteverybody would be able to make them all. The one that is Sept 11 in N.Y.isan example neither he nor I can make it even though we would like to.Here again if anybody has any ideas for topics or demonstrations pleasepass them along so that time and preparation can be given to the ideas. Iknow that there is an interest group for a standardized way of comparingandaltering rod tapers. I have been writing a piece for the last two years thatI hope to share with the group - but it is very very specialized and may beof little interest to the larger group. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Aug 10 10:05:01 1995 Subject: custom rods Subject: Time:8:52 AMOFFICE MEMO custom rods Date:8/10/95 It is my cedrtain knowledge that some rod and line mfgrs are shippingknown- to-be-defective equipment, expecting the customer to bethe QA team. What good is a guarantee 300 miles into the BC wilds or inCosta Rica?Lets hear it for custom rods built by men/women of integrity!Per ans Mario get my $$.Regards, CLiffclsojourner@lbl.gov from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 15 10:20:52 1995 Subject: Tapers and Titebond II I just got back from a week of fly fishing the California Sierra Mtns..and there were two items I was trying to evaluate. One of them washow Titebond II worked, and the other was how the taper formulas from the Garrison book compared to the tapers from the Cattanachbook. First the glue....One rod, the Garrison taper, I glued with URAC 185. The other rod,the Cattanach taper, I used Titebond II. I didn't have any problemswith either. Since URAC 185 is already accepted as a good glue issue I can anticipate with Titebond II is it's longevity. Does it lastas long as the other glues? Only time can answer this one.Titebond II is more readily available (even Sears had it!), lesstoxic, doesn't need to be mixed, and can be thinned with water. Next the tapers...On this one I have a clear cut choice. The Cattanach taper by farwas better for my casting style. It loaded better casting in closewith a little line out, but still didn't bend all the way down in the corkswhen I tried for maximum distance. My loops tended to stay tighterand casting into the wind was easier. Casting with the Garrisontaper felt slow and ponderous. When I tried for maximum distanceI felt the flex all the way into the handle. Fighting a fish felt a littlespongy compared to the Cattanach taper. I have fished with an oldercane rod (I couldn't read the label, I think it was Japanese made),and the Garrison taper is much, much better than it, but the Cattanachtaper was better for me. I think I will use the Garrison tapered rod fora nymphing rod, and the Cattanach tapered rod for a dry fly rod. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 15 12:40:45 1995 Subject: 60 deg Points depthgauges I just received an order from Starret. They are part number 6632/6with the standard 4-48 thread and should fit all depth gauges. If anyoneneeds a point let me know and I will send them one. Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Aug 16 08:51:38 1995 Subject: New builder Hello all, I have experience assembling Graphite rods from components and refinishing old bamboo rods. What tools and equipment do I need to make my own bamboo rod blanks. What books are essential reading? Where canI obtain bamboo? Thanks Gerald from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Aug 16 12:33:36 1995 Subject: Re: New builder Gerald seez... What tools and equipment do I need to make my own bamboo rod blanks. What books are essential reading? Where can I obtain bamboo? Gerald, an excellent book to start with is Wayne Cattanach's_Handcrafting Bamboo Flyrods_ It has everything you need to getstarted. I'll also include the latest copy of Bruce Conner's excellentBamboo Rodmaking FAQ at the end of this. Mike BiondoSt. Louis, MO =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Cane Rod Building FAQ (version 4)byBruce ConnerBConner@max.tiac.net Disclaimer: I am not associated with any of the companies mentioned inthis FAQ nor do I get any compensation for information contained herein. This FAQ is to answer the usual questions asked by those wanting to buildbamboo rods from scratch. "Are cane rods hard to make?" : Well, yes and no. It is considerably more work that making a rod from a blank, but nothing prohibitive. Some small degree of mechanicalskill is needed. Care and patience are the main thing you will need.Cane rods take time to build, but the time can be taken 30 minutes at astretch if need be. What else are you going to do in the winter anyway? "I've heard that the rods have to be made very accurately, down toone- thousandth of an inch!": You can be as particular as you want in this and still come upwith a decent rod. Yes, Garrison and most of the modern makers DO makethe rods very accurately, however, this is not beyond the capability ofthe home worker by any means. The process is a slow removal of smallamounts of material., Hence, it is very controllable. With the propermeasuring tools (described later in the FAQ) you will be able to makeyour rods to the desired accuracy. Many of the older books speak of64ths of an inch and the rods seemed to please just as much as the modernrods do. So do not let all the talk of thousandths of an inch scareyou. Yes, it does make a difference, but not a huge amount. You will beable to get the action you want and have a nice rod, honest! "How long does it take to build a rod?" I'd say about 40 hours or so total for a 2 piece rod, start tofinish. You can probably do it in less, but don't feel the need to rushyourself. A few evenings and a weekend will get you there. Again, youcan take the time in 30 minute increments and just poke along at it. "What equipment will I need?" There are some basic tools you will need to get started. BooksPlaning formsPlanesPlane bladesSharpening stoneScraperDepth gageDial caliperHand protection (glove or fingercots)URAC-185 glue Details on all this follows. First and foremost, get a good book on bamboo rodbuilding. Eitherthe Garrison book " A Master's Guide to Building a Bamboo Flyrod"(reprint edition about $60) and/or Wayne Cattanach's book "HandcraftingBamboo Flyrods" (about $40) These can be purchased from The Anglers Art1-800-848-1020. Wayne's Book is probably a better buy if you only wantto get one book. Planing forms: $30 - $400 depending on how you want to do it.If you buy steel forms you will spend over $300, if you make your own itcomes down to what material you decide to use. You can make metalforms,wood-bodied forms with metal faces, or all wood forms. My personalrecommendation is for the first time rod builder to make wooden formsoutof hard maple. These can be just as accurate as the metal forms and aresimple to make with nothing more than a drill, tap, and "V" scraper and adepth gauge with a 60 degree point. Hard maple will last for a lot ofrods. Mine isn't showing any appreciable wear after a number of rods.If you really get into rod building down the road, you can always get asteel planing form later. For the hobbyist, it really isn't needed. There are also other wooden forms you will need to make topreform the bamboo strips before going on to the final shaping. Theseare generally made of wood even if you have a metal planing form, so thisis no big deal. They don't have to be very accurate, just sturdy. Youcan make these with a plane, glue, ruler and scraper. Planes: You will need two planes, one for rough work and one forfinal planing. anything fancy. A Stanley block plane without adjustable throat is fine.Price is probably about $15 new, but any flea market has these forperhaps $5. throat. The Stanley or Record model 09 1/2 are good. Take out theblade and save it to use in your rough plane. You will be getting abetter plane blade for your fine work. In Wayne Cattanach's book youwill find details on how to make your plane flat and true on the bottom.This is a one-time thing you will need to do to get started. It paysoff! The plane will probably cost about $45-55 new, but you may find onein a flea market too. Since you will be smoothing the bottom anyway, afew minor dings in a used one shouldn't present a problem. There are also a modification to the sole (Bottom) of the planewhich you will need to make if you use the wooden forms as I havesuggested. What you are doing is making it so the blade will be exposedenough to cut the bamboo, but not enough to hit the wooden form. Iaccomplished this by using strips of stainless steel shim stock (.004)running down both sides of the plane sole. I just glued them on withsuperglue, but I think epoxy would keep them from popping off every oncein a long while. This modification makes a "tunnel" down the center inchor so of the plane sole and the blade sticks out into this tunnel andcuts the bamboo. But the blade is only pushed out to .003 or so so itnever sticks out past the shim stock and never hits the planing forms.Even if you use steel forms, this is a good modification to do because itkeeps you blade sharp longer. If you have a way to mill an area out ofthe centerline of the plane sole, feel free to do so instead of gluing onstrips. An alternative is to use a strip of wet/dry sandpaper about aninch wide glued to a flat surface (like a sheet of glass). Put a railmade of angle iron 3/4 of an inch away from the strip to use as a guiderail and then run the plane sole over the sandpaper. Since the paperonly touches the middle of the plane sole, this will remove a valley fromthe center portion of the sole. Think about this and it will be apparenthow to do it. Another modification I can heartily recommend is to make a "planeleveler" device. This device was written up in a back issue of "ThePlaning Form" and I have managed to get permission to reproduce thedrawings and article for the Internet. If you want a copy of the GIF,just ask me. The device acts as a handle and as a stabilizer when youare pushing on the plane allowing you to put most of your energy intogoing forward rather than keeping the plane level. It does this byhaving little ball bearing races which act as wheels out behind the planeand these stay in contact with the planing form at all times. The planeitself is attached to the handle/wheel gizmo by a pivot which is locatedjust behind where the blade goes through the sole of the plane. Theplane floats on this pivot as you push along the forms. A picture wouldexplain this in a second! It's plenty simple to build and I bet it couldbe made out of wood as well for those of you who have no metal workingtools. This little gizmo works amazingly well and your time is well spentin the making of it. Plane blade: You will need to get the best blade possible to dothe final planing on your bamboo strips. Bamboo has silica in it (that'slike glass folks!) and it will dull a blade very fast compared to wood.So what you need is a Hock replacement blade. This is a high carbonsteel blade and is thicker than the standard blade which comes with yourplane. Hardness of Rc 62 in case you were wondering. These blades areVASTLY superior to the standard blades. They stay sharp several timeslonger and your blade MUST be razor sharp if you want to do accuratework. I cannot stress this enough. The blade for a block plane isabout $19 and worth every cent. (Just think of the money you saved bymaking your own forms, you're still ahead of the game) Sharpening stone: To keep your plane blade sharp you will need aJapanese water stone. I use the combination stone which has 1000 grit onone side and 6000 grit on the other. These stones are lubricated withwater only. Get a little tupperware tub to keep the stone in and keep itwet at all times. Add a little soap to the water to keep things fromgrowing and to help lube things as well. This is also a must-have itemas far as I am concerned. The 6000 grit literally polishes the edge ofthe blade and makes it astoundingly sharp. I can EASILY shave the hairoff my arm with a blade sharpened on this stone. Get some sort of honingguide to hold the blade at a given angle on the stone, you will need itto get the proper results. If you have never seen a blade sharpened thisway, you are in for a revelation. You'll never go back. The stone costsabout $22 and the Stanley honing guide ran about $15 or so as I recall.I have the honing guide set at one angle and leave it there. Wayne'sbook tells about this stuff in more detail than I can here. Scrapers: You will do some scraping to get the final dimensionsin your strips sometimes. If your plane is well set up, this may not berequired, but it can help in problem areas if something has wandered alittle bit. I use a regular square cabinet scraper which looks like arectangle of steel about 2 by 4 inches. Keep it sharpened and a goodedge turned on it and it works fine. Given my druthers, I would love tohave a nice bodied scraper like an old Stanley. This looks like a blockplane except that it has a thick blade which rides almost straight up anddown in the holder. Of course, Stanley doesn't make them anymore.BUT... There is a company called Lee-Nielsen who make a brass bodiedcopy of the Stanley scraper which is nothing short of a work of art.It's expensive at about $100, but I'm sure it would find many uses inrodbuilding. There is another company from Germany called Kuntz (Kunz?)who make a bodied scraper as well for a little cheaper. You can get byjust fine without a bodied scraper and just use the "Danish" hand heldblade type. Scraping also comes into play after the strips have beenglued together and the final outside dimension is established. There isa very thin rind that covers the outside of the bamboo and this must bescraped off along with any glue that is still on the outside of the rod.Then a quick sanding with 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper and you are ready Hand protection: Get a leather glove for your left hand (if youare right handed). I use a racquetball glove. The bamboo is very, verysharp and if your hand slides on it, you will get a King-Kong papercut from the edge. Garrison used little rubber fingercots from an officesupply, but I happen to like the glove better. Up to you. The bamboostrip will try to slide in the form as you plane on it and you must holdit still. You may even want to glue some extra leather to the pointswhere you find you touch the cane, just for extra protection. Depth gage: I have a little dial gage with a 60 degree point onit to set the planing forms to the proper width. The 60 degree point ishard to come by and I made on on a lathe, but I understand that they areavailable from Starett. The dial gauge is mounted in a block of wood ormetal so the point sticks out the bottom of the block. A set screwadjusts the extension of the point to where you want it. Used tool shopsshould have a depth gage for about $20 or so. Be sure it measures inthousandths of inches. Dial caliper gage: This is used to measure the bamboo strips asyou work on them. Don't try to use a standard Verier caliper, because itwill take far to long to read it. You will be doing a LOT of readingsand the dial is much easier to use. If you have a snap gage with a dialon it, that would be OK too. Some people probably do fine with amicrometer, but it is pretty slow. You will be measuring not only the size of the section of thebamboo you are working on, but also measuring the fairness of the work.Imagine an equilateral triangle, 60 degrees on each corner. Now imagineit skewed off to one side a bit. The angles are no longer 60 degrees ineach corner! This is something you have to keep an eye on whileplaning. You can tell if the angles are off by measuring two sides ofthe triangle at one spot on the strip. If they match, fine. If not, youhave some correcting to do. This is why you will be measuring all thetime. The forms pretty much take care of the final size of the stripwithout too much looking after. So the thing to consider in acaliper/micrometer/whatever is fast reading, accurate reading andrepeatability. I have seen decent enough dial calipers in the MSCcatalog for about $25 on sale. They are made of steel (don't useplastic) but are inexpensive. Again, make sure you get one in inches. The way to correct for a NON equal triangle when you come acrossit (and you will!) is to make an adjustment on the plane. What you needto do is skew the blade so it cuts deeper on one side of the plane thanthe other. Think about the shape of the triangle you have measured withthe calipers. In fact, it might help to actually draw a scale drawing onsome graph paper so you can really visualize it. Now notice that becausethe triangle is off to one side, you will need to tighten the angle onone side and relieve the angle on the other. Remember, you NEVER cut onthe side with the rind! Luckily, because you have to flip the bamboospline over to cut both sides when it is in the form, you only have tomake a correction to the plane in one direction. It automaticallytightens one angle and relieves the other because you are flipping thespline over and now the rind is facing the other way. The best thingto do is make a couple of "practice" splines and experiment. Make noteson how you adjust the blade to get which effect. Some times you willfind that the spline is off in on one direction on part of the spline andoff in the other direction on the other end. You will have to correct oneend first by only planing partway down the spline. Then adjust the planethe other way and do the other end. This can be a pain, but if you catchit early in the preforming stages and keep an eye out when you are doingthe first few cuts in the final planing. Always measure after every fewcuts on each side to avoid the panic of having to make a large correctionwith only a little room to go. This is, for me at least, the mostdifficult aspect of rodbuilding, so if you can get this working right,the rest should be easy. "What about the glue for putting the rod together? Do I need somethingspecial?" Yes. You can use epoxy, but I don't. It's really slippery! Youcan also use resourcinol glue, but it is dark purple and leaves a line atthe gluelines. I use URAC 185 glue . It is very controllable and workswell. The measuring of the two parts seems tricky at first, but itreally isn't. What you need to do is add the powder to the liquid untilit is about the thickness of regular white glue (like Elmer's). This isthick enough to hold a seam, but thin enough not to make the glue linetoo thick. If you have a way to weigh the parts, OK, if not, just mix toa good consistency. The stuff has about 10-15 minutes working time, sohave EVERYTHING ready to go before mixing the glue! If you make amistake, wipe it off with a damp cloth. Only buy a pint of this glue, ithas a shelf life. Cost is about $10 including shipping. Call forcurrent prices. You can get URAC-185 from: The Nelson Paint CompanyOne Nelson DriveKingsford, MI 49801Phone (906) 774-5566 "Where do I buy the bamboo?" You need to get Tonkin Cane to build your rods. Cane sources area little tricky. The main place to get cane is from: Charles H Demarest IncPO Box 238Bloomingdale, NJ 07403. My price data are a bit old ( I have enough cane for my own needs (Ihope!)) but here is an idea of the cost. 12 foot x 2 to 2 1/2 inchdia with a minimum order of 3 pieces is$20 per piece + $21 ups shipping (they have to cut the culm in half tomake it 6 feet long) Or, you can buy a bale of 20 pieces for $15.25 perpiece plus $7 per piece for shipping. This would be East of theMississippi. I have a local guy who builds stuff from all kinds of bamboo, and he alsohas Tonkin Cane, but it is slightly different in character from the "rodbuilding" cane I have seen. It is a little larger in diameter and thenodes are further apart. But it seems to have just as good a fibredensity and stiffness and I have used it to make a couple of rods thatare very good. There was some debate about what cane is best in someissues of "The Planing Form" and it seems there are really no hard andfast rules. This stuff works, and I can go paw through the piles, so I'mhappy to have it available. And the longer internodal length makes doing"nodeless" construction a little easier. Just a data point, but it showsthere are sources out there who might be unconventional but quitesatisfactory, it's popular as a fence material and for furniture. An alternative would be to contact a maker of cane rods and see if theywould sell you some. I got some from a well known commercial maker foradecent price, but they asked me to keep quiet about who they were untilthey could get a better way of accounting for sales of raw material toamateur makers. I will see if they have made any moves on this and leteverybody know. You might also try contacting The American Bamboo Society for localbamboo people in your area. Michael Bartholomew, A.B.S.Box 215Slingerlands, NY 12159 "Are there any newsletters I can subscribe to?" Of course! There is "The Planing Form" run by Ron Barch. A verygood little publication and highly recommended for anyone who buildsrods. And at $15 per year, it is a bargain. The address is: The Planing FormPO Box 365Hastings, MI 49058 (USA) Tell Ron where you heard about him, he'll be surprized at all theinterest on the Internet. Back issues are available. This is pretty much all you will need to get going. You can use ameat cleaver and a busted off knife with a mallet or other hunk of woodto split the bamboo. No need for fancy tools here. are more into gizmos, I will suggest a rod wrapper for gluing the stripstogether. There is a wonderful design for a rod wrapper in a back issueof "The Planing Form" which I have managed to get permission to reprinthere on the net. If you want a copy of the GIF, just ask me. Thismachine has several advantages over hand wrapping. It puts 4 threads onat once, which increases the pressure on the glue joint. The threads areput on in a counter-rotating fashion so there is no torque on the freshlyglued strips. This keeps the blank from being twisted. It is fast soyou don't have to rush before the glue sets up. All very usefulfeatures. Besides which, it is a lot of fun to operate and looks reallynifty while it is running. Mine is made from some old 3/4 inch plywoodand some brass tubing, but the published design uses some copperplumbingparts for the bearings and is plenty cheap to make. You can motorizethis or hand crank it. A good optional tool! Easy to make. The designI am talking about is NOT the Garrison style wrapper, which has someproblems and isn't nearly as elegant. Rod finishing: You can probably find all the catalogs you needto get the snake guides and hardware on your own. A very good sourceis: Angler's Workshop, PO Box 1010, 1350 Atlantic Ave., Woodland, WA98674 (360) 225-9445. The ferrules are from Bailey Woods- ClassicSporting Enterprises, Box 1909, Fitch Hill Rd., Hyde Park, VT 05655(802) 888-7859. As for Varnishing, this is something of a no-man's land. You can use abrush, you can rub, you can dip the rod. It all depends on yoursituation. If you have the room and the desire for yet another bit ofimpedimenta, you can build a rod dipping setup. You will need either astairwell or a hole in the floor a couple of inches in diameter. I havemine in a closet, so the whole thing is out of the way and the varnishtube sticks down into the garage by the wall. The dipping works verywell for getting a super smooth finish and good build. Varnishing byhand should not be ruled out for giving a good looking, functionalfinish, so don't feel you simply MUST have a dipping setup. Mine was puttogether for about $35 or so not including the cost of the varnish.There is a design for one in Wayne's book and it is the basis for thesomewhat smaller and much simpler model I made for myself. I used astepper motor "demo" kit for the drive motor and can really regulate howfast the rod moves and can move it very precisely by using the singlestep mode. You do not have to have a lathe to fit the ferrule joints on therod, it is handy if you have access to one, but this is another job thatcan be done by hand if need be. Just be careful. The same goes formaking the cork grip and the reel seat. You can buy premade grips andreel seats or simply hand shape your own. A small lathe is a help inmaking some of the tools too, but don't think you have to have one tobuild rods. Some people have even rigged big ball bearing races into awooden frame held in a vise to make a "lathe", just wedge in a split corkinto each bearing to hold the rod. Be creative, this part isn't so hard. Some of you who may have experience building rods may wonder whyI didn't mention a heat treating oven in my list of required tools. Thisis for a good reason. I use my regular oven to do my heat treating ofthe bamboo. How can I do that? I build my rods in the "nodeless"fashion, meaning that I cut out all the little node areas in the bambooand splice the pieces together top make a long strip. It sounds like alot of work, but it takes me about the same amount of time to flatten andsmooth the nodes if I do it the regular way. But it does have the addedadvantage that I can take all of may bamboo pieces before I splice themand put them in my oven. They are usually about 18 inches or so long. Isaw out a section of bamboo between the nodes, split it, and heat treat.Then I put the splice joints in and glue up the strips. I can make anylength strip I want and I have a much easier time while planing becausethose darn nodes are gone! If you want to make a heat treating oven todo regular construction, there are a few different types you can make. Imade one that uses a heat gun and home heating ductwork. Didn't costmuch and works great. Again, it's from "The Planing Form" in a backissue and I'll try to get permission to reproduce it. The design in theGarrison book is a little outdated. Just to complicate matters, I was reading in a back issue of "ThePlaning Form" and someone ran some tests to find the best heat treatment is that flamed cane, made to a medium brown with no other heattreatmentis the most resilient. It looks like there is some latitude here. If this all sounds intimidating, don't let it throw you.ANYBODY can build a cane rod. It may not be a Garrison or a Payne rod onyour first attempt, but it could be. There are those who takerodbuilding to a high art and those who build good working rods that area joy to use, without getting too overblown about details. Take yourpick. It's a good winter hobby and it keeps you from doing somethingsilly like ice fishing. That about does it. I will be putting together a list ofquestions I get and perhaps a master list of suppliers of stuff to postin an updated FAQ later. If you have questions, feel free to ask. I'lldo what I can to help. Bruce ConnerBConner@max.tiac.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 22 09:41:01 1995 Subject: Finishes There is lumber yard near my house that has a hobby sectionin the store area, and as I was browsing I found a section devotedto wood finishing products. On the shelves I found some cans ofoutdoor Tung oil. The reason it was called outdoor Tung oil wasthat it had ultraviolet inhibitors added. I have just recently started making split cane rods, and the onlything I have used is polyurethane, after reading that Tung oil israther old fashioned and doesn't last as long as polyurethane. My question to all the experienced rodmakers out there is whatare the pros and cons of the various different types of finishes?I imagine polyurethane is harder and lasts longer, but can't Tungoil be "refreshed" by just rubbing on another coat? Does Tung oilslow down the action of the rod more than poly because it doesn'tstiffen up like poly? How does Danish oil compare? What aboutboiled linseed oil? Thank you for your responses in advance,Darryl Hayashidadnh@chevron.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 22 10:05:56 1995 Subject: Re: Finishes Opinions, only- no first-hand tung/bamboo experience. Tung is a traditional rod finish, and very prety. As you say, it is easilyreplenished. It is about twice as waterproof as Linseedand about half that of Polyu. A scratch in polyu is difficult to repair. Isuggest using tung and if you are not happy, the polyuis compatable with the tung, so you can just wipe with solvent and applypolyu. Works good on sailboats. Forget danish oils theyare mostly kerosene.Regards, Cliff from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 22 16:18:03 1995 Subject: Re: Finishes Danish oil appears to be a thin oil-varnish mix. You could make your own starting with the 3/2/1 parts ratio of turps/boiled linseed oil/varnish(or, if you must, polyurethane). Modify the proportions to suit the application. I've used this on cane rods, fine furniture, Neo-Irish harps, and the hull and decking of a 103' gaff-topsail ketch. IMHO, Tung oil has been used on rods for years; it should be fine. Beats the rubber cement that Paul Young used on that rod we saw in MI. Theurethanes are a hard sell with me. I don't like any finish that is so difficult to remove. Just personal opinion. reedrcurry@jlc.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 22 16:32:50 1995 Subject: Re: Finishes ReedDid you work on Bancroft's FAIR SAIRY? She was at Yerba Buena about 5yrs ago.Regards, CLiff from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Aug 23 07:47:23 1995 Subject: Silk Lines re-visited To All: John Freidman and I have been following up on Terje's suggestion for a French connection for silk flylines. Jackie Boileau, the line maker, sent me some samples and a price list of sorts. I must say that the dozen line sizes he sent are very nice, his new technique for waterproofing the silk produces a very elegant line with all the properties one associates with silk lines.However, the price (900 Fr) of $182 dollars leaves us cold. We were hoping that if we could arouse significant interest in a group purchase Jackie might get that price down. Its worth a try. I will be away for a few days so, if you are interested in joining a group purchase please notify John at johannes@uiuc.edu Thank you. Reedrcurry@jlc.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Aug 23 10:16:02 1995 Subject: Re: Silk Lines re-visited Don is providing silk lines much cheaper Donald J. CalcaterraCarando Machine WorksTuxedo Custom Cane Company420 No. Madsion St.Stockton, CA 95202209-948-6500Regards, Cliff from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Aug 23 14:08:28 1995 Subject: neophyte with questions I am new to bamboo rodmaking, and have some questions which I hopemembers ofthe list might answer. Most of this will be old ground for you, but I'm notsure of where else to start.1) What are sources of good quality 18% nickel-silver ferrules?2) what type of epoxy, or other resin, can be used to impregnate the blank,and where can it be found?3) Any novel ideas for manufacturing wooden planing forms?4) Can satisfactory results be obtained in glueing up the strips into ajointwithout a wrapping machine (ala Holden's book)?5) Is there any problem associated with splitting off strips, planing themtoshape, and then not glueing them up until a different season of the year(mustrods be completed in one season to avaoid problems with varying moisturelevels, etc.)?6) Does anyone know of a source for a caliper or micrometer suitable formicingstrips that costs Subject: Re: neophyte with questions Planeing Forms !!Sam Higginbotham 510-724-8204Regards, Cliffclsojourner@lbl.gov from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Aug 23 15:50:11 1995 Subject: RE:neophyte with questions Have you looked at Bruce Connors' FAQ?It answers many of your questions. Calipers, dial indicator, and a good quality heat gun - try Sears.Stainless steel dial calipers that measure to the .001thcapacity of 6" were $39.95Dial indicator with 1" depth measures to .001 was $29.95You still have to come up with your own 60 degree tip andbase.A great heat gun - electronic heat control, dual fan speeds,260 to 1050 degrees was $99.95 Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Aug 24 13:33:35 1995 Subject: Linseed finish A painting contractor once explained to me why linseed oil paint lastedso long on a house. While other paints actually sealed the surface - whichacts like a vapor barrier blocking moisture travel. Eventually thismoisturewould freeze blistering the paint and the paint would peel the next warmseason. Linseed oil paint didn't blisted because it didn't block moisturetravel. If the idea is to waterproof the surface of the rod - why would youwant to do it with a finish that didn't block moisture? Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Aug 24 13:34:19 1995 Subject: Suppliers List Adhesives Nelson Paint (URAC 185)pob 907Iron Mountain, Mi 49801906 - 774 - 5566 Nyatex (Epoxy 10EH008/10E007)2112 IndustrialHowell, Mi 48843517 - 546 - 4046Bill Hulbert Bamboo Charles H. Demarest IncPO Box 238Bloomingdale, NJ 07403201 - 492 - 1414Harold & Eileen Demarest Ferrules Classic Sporting EntBox 3 RD3Barton, VT 05822802 - 525 - 3623Bailey Wood Stanley 9 1/2 Plane Builder's Square II (a division of K - Mart)Stanley part # G12- 020 $34.00 Machinist Tools Enco5000 West BloomingdaleChicago, IL 60639800 - 860 - 3400 Dial Caliper 6" $14.95Depth Gauge $9.95 I have used both and both are a good value 60 deg point for depth gaugeStarret # 6632/6 Hock Blades and King Waterstones The Japan Woodworker1731 Clement AveAlameda, CA 94501800 - 537 - 7820 Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Aug 24 16:31:35 1995 Subject: Cane Rod Building FAQ Just wanted to let everyone know that I just uploaded the latestversion of Bruce Conners Cane Rod Building FAQ to the RODMAKERSarchives. anonymous FTP. In addition to Bruce's FAQ, there is past monthsRODMAKERS messages, several GIF files on ovens, binders, etc. andassociated doc files. If interested, to access the archives: ftp sirronald.wustl.edu login: anonymous password: Your.Email.Address cd /pub/rm get whatever.filename.you.want (if downloading GIF files, before you do the 'get'enter the command: binary) When finished, enter: bye Let me know if have any problems... Mike BiondoSt. Louis, MoRODMAKERS ListGuy from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Aug 25 00:27:50 1995 Subject: Groovy A few months ago The Planing Form had an article about puttinga groove in the sole of a hand plane. I thought it was a good idea,but I had just gotten started in making my own split cane rods,and had just bought a new Record 9 1/2 plane and didn't wantto do something that drastic to it. A month ago I ran across aused Stanley 920 in a used tool store and all they wanted for itwas 10 bucks. It was in pretty good condition so I bought it withthe grooving procedure in mind. I have just gotten to the final planing step on my latest project,a 7' 6" 3 piece for 3 or 4 wt, and used my grooved plane. It sureworks a lot better this way! The blade stays sharp longer - Ifinished planing all six strips in one section without having toresharpen instead of resharpening every other strip. Before, everyonce in a while the blade would really dig in and leave a deep nick inthe edge of my planing form which I would have tofile or sand out.I no longer do this with the grooved plane. I can really tighten thethroat of the plane and take a lot smaller shaving than I could before.I sanded the groove to a .004 depth. Now I'm going to groove myroughing plane also. I'm sure it will prolong the life of my woodroughing form. So far I haven't run into any disadvantages to groovingyour planes. I guess the veterans out there know the advantages to grooving yourplanes, but to the neophytes, drop everything, don't do another thinguntil your planes are grooved! Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Aug 25 17:59:37 1995 Subject: Welcome Wagon Mike In reading the mail this week and idea occurred to me. Whenpeople subscribe to rodmakers we should send a welcome message thatpoints people to FAQ, Sources of info / supplies, books, etc. This will helppeople get orientated without having to send the same "I am a newbieand need help" message. A comprehensive welcome message to thelistserverwill give them access to what they want quickly. To alot of people thiswould help them. Other Listservers send a message so we could make awelcome wagon type: If you're looking for ... try here, if this try there. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Aug 26 15:56:10 1995 Subject: New email address Hi everyone. Hope that your rodbuilding has been going well and that thefishing has been good for you this summer. bconner@cybercom.net The FAQ seems to be a popular item and I would like to keep updating it from time to time. If anyone in Europe has suppliers they find useful,please let me know and I will put them in the FAQ. There seem to bequeries about non-US suppliers from time to time. That's all for now. Keep your blade sharp and your cane dry! Bruce Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Aug 27 14:26:32 1995 Subject: re:archives access To "the group",Greg Payne helped me out getting into the direcotry for thearchives and i wasable to download and print out the GIF for the planeleveler, but when I open the binder GIF all I get is a black screen. Forthe record, I have a Mac, and I'm using Netscape to access these files. Allhelp is appreciated. Thanks in advance. David Leschinsky sxl8@psu.edu "I fish...not because I regard fishing asbeing so terribly important but because so many of the other concerns ofmen are equally unimportant-and not nearly so much fun." - Robert Traver from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Aug 27 14:26:38 1995 Subject: Re: Linseed finish don't know if your question on why you'd want linseed oil as a finish if itdidn't block moisture. I'd like to add the point that there is a differencebetween moisture vapor transmission and water (liquid) resistance. It's alittle like the Gortex concept. Most coatings, paints, etc. have somedegreeof moisture vapor transmissibility. The blisters come into play when asudden release of a buildup has no place to go and forces the film up intobubbles... from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Aug 28 03:41:57 1995 Subject: Re: Starter question Hello I'm not only new to the list but I'm new (interested) in starting to build cane rods. After having read some messages and the FAQ interst is growing rapidly. So there are two main questions: 1) Does anybody have addresses of European suppliers for bamboo and tools (I've just found one in Denmark still waiting for cataloque) ? Are there any german list members ?? 2) are there any plans or description to buid the planing forms (wooden once) or can somone recommend me literature where I can find a descrition ? Ok - many thanks in advance Stephan **************************************Stephan GrimmFachhochschule Konstanz - GermanyPhone 07531206364Fax 07531206172e-mail grimm@kos.fh-konstanz.de*************************************** from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Aug 25 16:42:37 1995 Subject: archives access To "the group",I'm only slightly less new to this computer than I am to making myown rods. Since I firmly believe the only dumb question is the oneun-asked, here's the first round: The address(?) given to access the archives for the GIF(what's thatmean, BTW?) on the binders, ovens, etc. is ftp sirronald.wustl.edu I haveEudora 1.4.1 for my e-mail and Netscape 1.1 to access the net. When I tryto open this as a location on Netscape I get a "server does not have a DNSentry,check location and try again." Am I going about this right? Do I need to add something to theaddress? Can anyone help? Thanks in advance David Leschinsky sxl8@psu.edu "I fish...not because I regard fishing asbeing so terribly important but because so many of the other concerns ofmen are equally unimportant-and not nearly so much fun." - Robert Traver from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Aug 28 08:06:13 1995 Subject: Re: Welcome Wagon Chris Bogart seez... In reading the mail this week and idea occurred to me. Whenpeople subscribe to rodmakers we should send a welcome message thatpoints people to FAQ, Sources of info / supplies, books, etc. ... Great idea Chris!!! When I first got the list going I threwtogether the brief welcome that is currently being sent out toeach new subscriber. You're absolutely right though, it's high time the officialwelcome message be expanded to include other info that wouldbe useful to a new subscriber. When I get it finished, I'llpost it to the list for critique. Thanks again... Mike- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 29 14:17:34 1995 Subject: Re: Welcome Wagon Can't wait to see the welcome wagon. I still struggle. On another topic: I am experimenting with different finishes and wrapping detailsutilizing old cane. Centennial is out of dark cane. I am looking fora refinishable mid section. Does anyone out there have one I can purchaseto finish my project?????? Regards from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 29 15:43:29 1995 Subject: Error Condition Re: Hollow Rods? We are sorry, but this system sensed the following request which mayhave beeninadvertently sent to list rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu: RECENTLY I TEST CASTED A SCOTT SPLIT CANE ROD MADE BY A RODMAKER If your posting was intentional, please accept our apologies and resendyourmail message, making sure you do not include anything that may look likearequest in the first line of the body of the actual message. If this was indeed a request please resend it to listproc@mail.wustl.eduYour entire message is copied below. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- from HADN@chevron.com Tue Aug 29 16:48:19 1995 wugate.wustl.edu (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA24800 for; Tue, 29 Aug 1995 16:48:16 -0500 SMTP id AA19217(InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for );Tue, 29 Aug 1995 14:48:09 -0700 id ; Tue, 29 Aug 9514:53:26 PDT Subject: Hollow Rods? Encoding: 19 TEXT Recently I test casted a Scott split cane rod made by a rodmaker by thenameof Mario Wojnicki. The action was faster than anything I have seen in acanerod before. When I asked the store clerk about it he said the rod wasmostlyhollow in the butt section and solid in the tip section. I have been looking inall the books I can, but none of them show how to make a hollow rod. Is this one of those "secrets of the masters" nobody wants to tell anybodyelse about? Thinking about it I can imagine planing off the apexes of theinside of the strips would yield a hollow section, but what about strength places, but how would I get the glue out of the hollow sections? Has anybody made hollow rods, and would they care to tell othersabout how they did it? Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 29 16:42:39 1995 Subject: Hollow Rods? The following is a message from Darryl Hayashida, that the listprocdecide to choke on for some reason. Sorry Darryl... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS ListGuy =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Subject: Hollow Rods? Recently I test casted a Scott split cane rod made by a rodmaker by the name of Mario Wojnicki. The action was faster than anything I have seen ina cane rod before. When I asked the store clerk about it he said the rodwasmostly hollow in the butt section and solid in the tip section. I have beenlooking in all the books I can, but none of them show how to make a hollowrod. Is this one of those "secrets of the masters" nobody wants to tell anybodyelse about? Thinking about it I can imagine planing off the apexes of theinside of the strips would yield a hollow section, but what about strength places, but how would I get the glue out of the hollow sections? Has anybody made hollow rods, and would they care to tell othersabout how they did it? Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 29 17:24:08 1995 Subject: Re: Hollow Rods? Darryl: Yes it is one of the great untold secrets of rodmaking. At GraylingJohn Long had a shop made hollow fluting jig. It is a real Cadilac. I talkedto him about it and the real secret is an oval tip plane blade. I have sincemade a chevy version using the same maple that I made my 1st and 2ndforms with.I basically made a wood plane with a 60 degree grove just like your 2ndform. an 30 degree angle. I put in a tapered strip and hold down the strip withmy thumb and pull it through. Simple and you get excellent results. Theovalbit leaves more glue surface between the strips for greater strength. Inherentlya hollow butt section will be stiffer thus faster than a solid section. I am bringing this jig to Livingston Manor and demonstrating itthere.I have done practice strips and now in the process of doing a rod. You don'tflute the whole section. Leave the area where you mount the ferrulessolid only need to complete a drawing of the plane. I have not seen this in any printed matter before - but John haschecked some old patent documents and this matches pretty much. Functionallyboth my and John's jigs work the same except mine can be made in thehome shop. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 29 18:16:37 1995 Subject: Re: Hollow Rods? oh yeah! Winstons, Howells, even the quads by Woz's shopmate, Per. That'swhere the front of the envelope is for cane... from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 29 18:36:22 1995 Subject: Re: Hollow Rods? Darryl:With regard to hollow rods, your supposition that you can simply plane offtheapices of the strips is not far from the truth. However, when doing theplaning, you do it in segments, with areas left solid in between. Thisallosthe lightness, but preserves a significant portion of the strength. Winstonused to create a fluted channel in the center of their rods, preservingmaximymgluing surface while also maximally lightening the planed portion of thebut.They may even have made some hollow mid-sections. I have not done thismyself(I have not even built a rod), but I have seen it done by a maker inCincinnati, Ohio (flyfishing capitol of the Western Hemisphere:)). I illattempt to find out more from this person, and report the results to thelist.I am sure that there is some magic in the spacing of the hollow portionsandsolid intervening diaphragms. There is a certain symmetry to doing this,in mymind...kind of recalling the structure of the original raw-material.Sincerely,Steven C. Carletonjde from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Aug 29 23:15:31 1995 Subject: grip turning Rodders, We have been discussing locally the best/different methods for turninggrips while making a rod. One guy around here turns the grip by hand with a file; too much work for lazy me. Any suggestions? Thanks. Buster WolfeMonroe, LA bwolfe@wwic.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Aug 30 08:33:52 1995 Subject: Hollow Rods Darryl, and others interested in Hollow Rods: Some great mind once stated "only by studying the past can we understandthepresent and control the future." Judging from the recent commentsconcerning Hollow Rods; this quote is very true. The concept of buildingHollow Rods is nothing new. Both Lew Stoner of Winston Rods and E.C. Powell of Powell Rods hadpatentson building hollow rods. The drawings and texts of these patents are like atext book on the topic. These two men spent years perfecting thetechniquesof building hollow rods; and they produced some of the finest castinglightweight rods ever made. Stoner's Patent is #2,537,488 (1951): this number is inked on the shaft ofeach rod built by R.L. Winston Rod Co. that employes the fluted- hollowmethod of construction. Powell's Patent is #1,932,986 (1933). Both of these patents are available from the U. S. Patent Office or frommost larger city libraries. Or I have copies of both patents if you can'tfind them elsewhere; contact me by e-mail if you would like a copy. Dick SpurrCentennial Publications & The Classic Angler256 Nashua Court - Grand Junction, CO 81503Phone: (303) 243-8780 - Fax: (303) 243-6503 E- mail: bamboo@cognet.comThe Classic Angler: http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Aug 31 22:58:31 1995 Subject: Re: grip turning A lathe will work just fine. You can also fashion a lathe out of a handdrill. Another method I have used prior to the afore mentioned is using apiece of threaded rod or to turn the grip, then ream out the inside. Thisdoes not make as good a fit as would the above two. Any comments,criticisms, or observations would be appreciated. Jim Stroh, CustomRiverRods and Supplies, Plymouth, MI