from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 1 08:34:20 1995 Subject: Quotes for 10/1 "Lest the reader become too discouraged let me say that one can fish beautifully with a rod that is not perfection, but at the expense of undue physical exertion. For years I fished with what I now realize were verypoor rods, but I found that I could place a fly as accurately as the next man, and execute the curve cast and other necesssities of fly fishing. Only when I acquired the unusually excellent rod I speak of, was I aware of the greater ease with which these things could be done." from "Any Luck?" by Eugene Connett, 3rd (1933 Windward House) IMO one of the most readable, enjoyable books about fly fishing for trout ever written. Good sections on tackle, great chapters on fishing. ReedP.S. - If any list members find these daily quotes tedious, please let me know by private email. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 1 19:44:25 1995 Subject: Barnes Book Is anyone familiar with 'How to Build a Bamboo Rod" by George Barnes. No one seems to mention it. Is it worth acquiring, is it availableanywhere?Please advise. JB from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 1 20:07:46 1995 Subject: Re: Quotes for 10/1 FWIW, I find the quotes delightful--and you've turned me on to a couple ofbooks I've never read. Thanks. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 2 01:43:41 1995 Subject: Re: Quotes for 10/1 Hi Reed and other rodbuilders, P.S. - If any list members find these daily quotes tedious, please let me know by private email. The quotes are great, Reed. Entertaining and inspiring. Keep them coming Martin Martin Joergensen, Copenhagen from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 3 07:36:37 1995 Subject: Re: Quotes for 9/30 "An angler perfectly equipped to fish for all species of trout dealt within this book would need a minimum of six rods: a midge for the smallerstreams, a 7 or 7.5' stick for slightly larger brooks and creeks, an 8-foot rod for wet and dry flies and nymphs on medium rivers, and 8.5-footer for thesame waters when using a bucktail or streamer, a 9-footer for really large streams and lakes, and a 9.5-footer for some of the big steelheadrivers." from "Trout Fishing" by Joe Brooks (1972 Times Mirror) I like his attitude. :) Reed I find it interesting that he makes no mention of line weight, just length. Russ Gelinasgelinas@ekman.unh.edu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 3 07:37:59 1995 Subject: Re: Need a new sock Y0u can get lovwely 9 foot 3 piece granger material socks from Bob Corsetti, Rods and Reels, Masssoit Road, Nashua, NH. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 3 07:39:36 1995 Subject: Quotes for 10/2 "This rod need not necessarily be an expensive one, as a number ofAmerican rodbuilders have at last developed a class of rods for as low a price as ten dollars that have surprisingly good action. Without belittling or discouraging those who of necessity must confine themselves to moderate priced tackle, it goes without saying that the greatest enjoyment isderived from the use of the very finest equipment produced by master craftsmen.What the Stradivarius is to the artist of the violin, the finer rods are to the expert fly caster." from "Fishing the Dry Fly" by Arthur J Neu (1933) in FIshing Lake andStream from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 3 17:24:44 1995 Subject: Re: Quotes for 9/30 I find it interesting that he makes no mention of line weight, just length. Russ Gelinasgelinas@ekman.unh.edu Actually, he does mention line weights for these 6 rods, but the comments are 7 pages later. This is one problem with "sound bites". The weights are: 6'- 7.5' #4 and #5 8' #4 - #6 8.5' #7 - #8 9' #8 - #9 9.5' #9 - #10 The book is a good (very good) read; probably his best work. Joe Brooks advocated slow action rods for big work, we're only getting back to thatnow. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 3 18:38:32 1995 Subject: Quotes for 10/3 "Right here, may I inject a thought that may prevent the ruination of agood rod -- perhaps loss of a treasured friendship at the same time. Many anglers, to be good fellows, loan their fly-fishing equipment to someone else. When this friend returns it after two or three weeks of use, theowner finds the rod just does not feel the same. So the friend is blamed for giving the rod improper use and thereby ruining it. He is generally right, too! However, both owner and friend are equally to blame. No man shouldask the loan of another's fishing tackle, and no owner should grant the use of his equipment to anyone, no matter how close he may be as a friend.Why? Here we come back to "balance" again!Because of the difference in physical characteristics betweenindividuals each and every angler exerts the pressure needed in casting in a different way. And this difference in leverage means that the rod action, or strainon the rod, whichever you call it, occurs in a different place on a rod. Therefore, when some man other than the owner uses it for a length oftime he forces a "stress" at a different place on the rod and a change in action through the weakening of the bamboo cells at a new place." from "With Fly, Plug and Bait" by Ray Bergman (1947 Morrow) quoting froma letter by Arthur Low I've seen one of my rods get a casting set in 5 minutes when someone insisted on using Lefty Kreh style casting to strut his stuff. Ugh. IMHO, this is one of Bergman's best books. A more mature work than "Just Fishing" and "Trout", the chapter on balance is worth the price. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 3 20:24:34 1995 Subject: Preparing Nodes Hi everyone, I am confussed. I am currently preparing the nodes on the culm before I start to spit it. I have a mill file and a sanding blockwhich I am ready to use once I can figure out what I am doing.I am looking at Wayne's book for reference. It says the processis to use the mill file first and work it until you get a 1/4" stripof enamel removed. That make sense. Where I get confussed is at the point where he switches fromtaking about the nodal ring to a valley. It says to keep sandinguntil there is a 1/16" wide strip of enamel left in the valley. Where does this valley come from? Thanks,Scott. Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Oct 4 06:53:08 1995 Subject: Need Cork Filler Recommendations The cork grip on one of my rods has lost a small piece (finger-nail size) that I wish to repair.Any suggestions on a commercially available filler?THX in advance. Jerry Donovanjdonovan@gates.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Oct 4 07:06:23 1995 Subject: Re: Need Cork Filler Recommendations Jerry,Clemens Custom Tackle in Allentown PA has some cork dust in a bag andsome glue materialwhich when mixed properly works fairly well for filling in gouges, etc. Hope this helps.Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Oct 4 19:04:52 1995 Subject: Bailey Wood's ferrules.Content-Identifier: Bailey Wood's fe Bailey Wood's ferrules seem to get good reviews. They come in two types. Can anyone comment on them? Paul Urban from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Oct 4 19:18:21 1995 Subject: Re: Quotes for 10/3 "I was interested in Eddie's rods, leaning here and there on various parcels about the room.I found that the new noibwood, such as I had ordered, was only a unit in a very respectable aggregate .....Whereupon I was moved to confess the little bamboo stick that I had bought in Boston, and producedit think viewed it and wiggled it with rather small respect. Still, he did not condemn it utterly..." from "The Tent Dwellers" by Albert Bigelow Paine (1908 ) now inpaperback reprint by Nimbus I love this book, only some of my affection generated by the descriptionsof Nova Scotia, from which I have been removed these eight years. Buy thisbook. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Oct 5 18:29:24 1995 Subject: Cane Rod Auction Hello Rodbuilders:I have put together a collection of over 25 classic cane rods that I amoffering for sale by way of a sealed bid auction. Included in the collectionare rods from such revered builders as Everett Garrison, "Pinky" Gillum,JimPayne, Paul and Jack Young, Gary Howells, Lew Stoner, H. L. Leonard andothers. If you would like a complete listing of the rods being auctionedplease respond via email or call me at 1-800-750-3675.Thank you,Clayton E. RawnRoaring Fork Outfitters, Ltd."The Finest in Fly Fishing" from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 6 04:55:54 1995 Subject: Dip Tube Revisited If you are frugal, as myself, you might try ! 1/4" tubing for thevarnish tubes - 48" holds exactly (1) quart. I make mine out of coppertubingand swell the cap end up to a 2" female - I then stop this with a PVC plug.Follow this - the exposed (to air) surface of the 1 1/4" tubing is muchsmaller than the surface area of the quart can - So I leave the finish inthetubing for long term storage. The finish that I am using has been in thetube have finished about 25 rods and it still looks good. Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 6 06:24:11 1995 Subject: cane blanks I am new on the list and very interested in rod building.I have just finished a rod using a cane blank made by R.Chapman &Co.,Englandand I am very satisfied.The blank is a 8 foot #4 model 212 Garrison.After using this rod I think I am hooked on cane rod fishing. Some questions to you rodmakers: I have seen that some cane rod makers have classified the 212 Garrison model as a #4/5 rod.Comments? Any comments about the above mentioned blank? Other cane blank makers? The best glue to join ferrules and the tiptop to the bamboo? I am going to build a cane rod for small river fishing(line wt.DT#4)and would appriciate comments about length,blank brand,etc. Regards from TA Hermansen,Telemark,Norway from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 6 07:49:23 1995 Subject: Steel type for final planing forms I need a bit of advice. I've been assembling my final planing forms duringthe past several months. Everything seemed to be going well, except that on one end of the form, Ididn't drill one of the bolt holes correctly and the opposite ends of theform isn't flush. I've tried to file/grind them down, but I didn't seemto make much progress. I found a machine shop that said they could plane the forms for me butaftera week they called me back and told me that I had used the *wrong* typeofsteel and it wasn't possible to plane it flat. Apparently I have purchased hot-rolled steel for the forms and the guys at the shop said I needed to use cold-rolled steel instead. Bummer. Has anyone had this problem? I really hate to think I need to start allover again. Jerryballard@zen.wes.army.mil from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 6 09:19:26 1995 Subject: Removing Tip Top I sent a message to the list a few weeks back concerning a Scott 7 wt Rod that I wanted to build. After deciding on the components, and puting aside the $$$$ to do the deed, I found out the blank I wanted will no longer be built. Wouldn't you know it? Since then I have stopped by every shop in my area, and have test casted lots of different rods. I have settled on an Orvis HLS 8 wt 4 pc Powerhouse blank (I know a lot of people sneer at Orvis, but what can I say? This rod felt right. So I won't apologize!). The main problem is that Orvis installs the tip- top on all of their blanks at the factory. Is it a big deal to remove a tip top? I have built one rod to date, and would like some guidance. Thanks DarenDaren C. Valentinedarenv@megaweb.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 6 10:57:45 1995 Subject: re: Removing Tip Top I sent a message to the list a few weeks back concerning a Scott 7 wt Rod that I wanted to build. After deciding on the components, and puting aside the $$$$ to do the deed, I found out the blank I wanted will no longer be built. Wouldn't you know it? Since then I have stopped by every shop in my area, and have test casted lots of different rods. I have settled on an Orvis HLS 8 wt 4 pc Powerhouse blank (I know a lot of people sneer at Orvis, but what can I say? This rod felt right. So I won't apologize!). The main problem is that Orvis installs the tip- top on all of their blanks at the factory. Is it a big deal to remove a tip top? I have built one rod to date, and would like some guidance. Thanks DarenDaren C. Valentinedarenv@megaweb.com Hi, Daren - I'm assuming you're talking about a graphite blank here. If so, thenI know of no rodbuilding reason to remove the tiptop. If you'redissatisfiedwith the one Orvis installed, then that's another story. To remove atiptop soak it in boiling water for about 5 min or until the epoxy holdingit on has softened.If you do decide to remove it, first wrap a piece of tape around the blankbelow the tiptop and put a mark on it pointing at the center of the tiptop.This will save you from having to find the spine later. Regards, Jon Hendersonjwh@cup.hp.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 6 11:14:05 1995 Subject: re: Removing Tip Top I sent a message to the list a few weeks back concerning aScott 7 wt Rod that I wanted to build. After deciding on thecomponents, and puting aside the $$$$ to do the deed, I foundout the blank I wanted will no longer be built. Wouldn't youknow it? Since then I have stopped by every shop in my area, and havetest casted lots of different rods. I have settled on an OrvisHLS 8 wt 4 pc Powerhouse blank (I know a lot of people sneer atOrvis, but what can I say? This rod felt right. So I won'tapologize!). The main problem is that Orvis installs thetip-top on all of their blanks at the factory. Is it a bigdeal to remove a tip top? I have built one rod to date, andwould like some guidance. Thanks DarenDaren C. Valentinedarenv@megaweb.com Daren,You could try removal of the original tiptop by carefully heating theshank with analcohol burner or butane-type lighter. BE CARFUL! Before you begin, I'dalso suggest you wrap some masking tape just below the tiptop shank end to preserve any wrapsand to save anypossible scorching of the blank at this point. Also, in reverse order ofsteps :>) mark thepreviously wrapped tape with the location of the tip opening (assuming, ofcourse, that thisis the same location onto which you'll install the new tiptop - spline,etc.). Hope this helps.Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 6 12:01:40 1995 Subject: Re: Steel type for final planing forms Jerry,Yes, I made the same mistake, but I didn't go so far as to actually work with the hot-rolled steel. The pieces were bent and I couldn't straighten them. I went back to my old copies of "The Planing Form" (get these if you don't have them, and subscribe) and looked at Wayne's book again. They say cold-rolled steel and they mean it. Unless your stuff is exceptional you'll never get it flat enough and straight enough to work. Sorry.John Carter from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Oct 7 20:25:23 1995 Subject: Quote for 10/7 Missed a few days of my self-imposed task due to, um, a party and itsafter effects. You're never too old to be a fool. "The ideal rod should and can perform like this: Always have the tip-in-hand feeling; give perfect casts with greatest ease, using only wrists and other parts of the arm when desired; at all distances the action should be complete. You can have an ideal short and medium range fly rod with allthe power reserve for exceptionally long casts, without losing any of the qualities of light tip action and English type soft action rods. Maximum casting power with minimum muscle power, perfect side cast, perfectleft and right side casts, perfect overhead casts perfect sky casts, perfect roll casts. No line hump. Cast a wide or narrow loop -- and remain smooth atall times. It should be a perfect wet and dry fly. And in my opinion, the length should be at least 8.5 feet if you are only going to work with one rod." from "The Practical Fly Fisherman" by A.J.McClane (1989 - Nick Lyons) This is one great book; originally written in 1953, updated in 1975 -- it doesn't get better than this. (IMHO) Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 8 09:50:23 1995 Subject: re: Removing Tip Top All: Most tip-tops are put on with hot glue. I want to commenton the heating method. I've found it is a lot safer to use yourhot air gun when using the ferrule hot glue. This is a flamelessheat source. Using butane lighters will blacken the glue and tip top(it cleans off). Use a pair of needle nose pliers to hold the tip topand gently heat and pull off or put on - whatever the case may be. Also ferrule glue is good for putting on the reel seat caps. Thisway you can always easily remove it for repair work. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 8 15:03:35 1995 Subject: Forms for sale (1 set) Hello list members, I have a new set of forms for sale. I have decided to give up the challengeof building my first cane rod before I have ever started it. I live on avery demanding schedule and came to the realization that I simply do nothave the time to devote to rodmaking, which requires much devotion. I'msure all of you know that you can wrap up some money in tools andmaterialspreparing to build a rod. That is why I'm going to stop before I getinvolved in this any further. The forms have never been used. They were manufactured by FrankArmbrusterin Colorado. Frank had some trouble with his early forms, but these arenot from that period. The forms are perfectly flush through there wholelength. I am asking $200.00 for the forms. I paid $250.00 and Frank is currentlycharging $300.00 for them. So somebody could save $100.00 on a new setofforms. I also have 2 culms (2 left from Demarest's minimum of 3) of cane that Ihave only put a drying split in. They are the larger diameter cane and I amasking $15.00 a peice for them. Anybody that is interested in either of these items can E-mail me at:mattc@nauticom.net and we can work out a way to do the transaction(s)andshipment. Thanks for taking the time to read this, Matt Callihan from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 8 15:41:10 1995 Subject: re: Forms for sale (1 set) My aplogies list members. My mailer will not send mail to Matt Callihan directly; apparantly it is being rejected at one end or the other with a message: username unknown. Matt, I would very much like the oppurtunity to purchase the materials you described in your mail message this afternoon. Please advise of arrangements to contact you other than through the mail address supplied. I am having trouble sending mail to you directly. -.Robert.-RHeller@SwRI.EduVoice: (210) 522-3824 from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 8 19:23:01 1995 Subject: rodbuilding course Hi folks,On my way back home from N.J. this weekend I stopped in Kutztown,Pa. and talked with George Maurer. He offers a rodbuilding course that Ican take at my own pace. Along with the instruction, all the masterialsareprovided to build a complete rod. The rod type, action, reel seat, etc.,are my choice. I need a few of the basic hand tools of my own but theplaning forms, oven, binder, lathe, varnishing tube, etc are all in place.I would learn not only how to build a rod but also how to use all thesethings so that when I do it at home on my own I'll know what I need andwhat I don't.I looked at and cast one of the rods that George built, anabsolutely beautiful 3 pc. 7'3" for 5 wt. The rod practically cast itself.In fact, I had to make myself remember to let it do the work. When I triedto give it the power stroke I use on my graphite rod the line collapsed infront of me. If I can learn to build a rod like that I'll be a most happycamper.George had two students working there today, at different stages ofboth the learning and building processes. They were both pleased withwhatthey were getting out of the course. George is a nice guy and we got alongwell. I know I could work easily with him.The course costs $850.00.I asked George if he minded if I asked you all for your opinionsand he said it was fine with him.I'm interested on the lists' opinions of courses like this ingeneral and George and his course in particular if anyone has hadexperience with him. My own feelings at the moment are that even thoughitmay be a more expensive way to get started, the knowledge and experienceIget will probably save me money and grief in not too long a time. Havingbeen taught a trade and having taught it in turn, I know there is nosubstitute for this kind of instruction. I also know that the mostimportant tool one can have in his toolbox is knowledge.If you have opinions or comments that you'd rather not share withthe whole list please send them to me privately.So...?TIA,David David Leschinsky sxl8@psu.eduAND NO TROUT" 'By crotch,' I says, 'I sh'ud think that ye'd hate to live away down thar.'"Why? What d'ye mean?' he says, kinda taken aback." 'Down to N'York,' I says." 'Why?' he says, like he was completely puzzled." 'Becuz,' I says, 'it's so far away from everything.'"Then he begun to laugh, like what I'd said was funny. Now whatin the devil was he laughin' at?" "Search me," I said. "Me, too," concluded Mat."Business is Business" from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 8 19:29:44 1995 Subject: Dial indicator base Does anyone have suggestions on the ideal base for the dial indicator. Ihave purschased a dial indicator from Emco and would appreciate anysuggestionsas to the set up. I have a scrap of brass bar stock that I would like to use, butI want to be sure of what I am doing as there is not enough for a secondtry. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 9 10:00:31 1995 Subject: Excel Glue Hello List Members! Last weekend I glued up my latest project usingExcel glue, (a type of polyurethane glue) and hereare my impressions about it. My previous experiences with glue include URAC 185,Titebond II for gluing splines, and epoxy for the variousother things you have to glue in making rods. The advantages Excel give you are it's waterproof,very strong, and has more creep resistance than thealiphatic resin glues (Titebond II). It's supposed to workin temperatures from -20 to 200 deg. F, and it has a 20 to30 min. working time, with a clamp time of 4 to 12 hours.Believe the specs on clamp time. I unwrapped the blankafter two hours and the splines separated. It wasn't a bigdeal, I was able to put another coat of glue and rewrap. Itis clear with a brown tint, and you can't see glue lines. Ifyou need to thin it acetone does the job. It's a one part nomixing glue, so a little more convenient than epoxy. Excel made the blank stiffer than I would have expectedcompared to Titebond II and even a little stiffer than if I hadglued it with URAC 185. I haven't tried epoxy for gluingsplines yet, but I would expect that Excel would compare toepoxy in the amount of stiffening the blank. Excel would begreat for gluing ferrules, (it's supposed to swell as it dries)handles, and reel seats. Use Excel in a well ventilated area, it does give off a lot ofsolvent fumes, and be sure to wear latex gloves, it bondsreal well to skin. Excel is a lot like epoxy in working time, strength, and mostother characteristics. It's just a little more convenient in thatyou don't have to mix it. In my opinion, if Excel (another brandis Gorilla Glue) is hard for you to get, use a long setting epoxy.There isn't much difference. using Titebond II yet. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 9 10:26:06 1995 Subject: Re: Excel Glue Can anyone pos a mail source for Excel glue?Regards, Cliff from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 9 11:05:24 1995 Subject: Source for Excel glue I got mine from Constantine's, a woodworkersupply mail order. Order No. - 800 223- 8087 from the 1994 - 95 catalogueCatalogue No. Size PricePWG8 250 ml (8.5 oz.) $ 8.75 (US)PWG1 750 ml (25.4 oz.) $ 18.95PWG2 5 liters (1.32 gal) $ 92.95 from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 9 11:05:55 1995 Subject: Rodbuilding Courses David, et al: There are only two people that give rodbuilding courses ona regular basis that I know of: George and Wayne. Wayne is currentlyin Arkansas giving two courses each 6 days long. Wayne gives hiscourses using his leave from work so he has little flexiblity to accomondate a seperate student. Wayne's courses were booked long inadvance. As you found out George gives his courses at home in his shop.due to this fact, George has more flexibility to accomondate the student'sschedule. Other than that, both do an excellent job. Taking either course will save you $$$ in time, effort, and results.Wayne says at the end of the course you will produce a rod equivilant ofthe20th rod by someone who has to learn by the trial and error method. Considerthis: you leave the course with a handcrafted fly rod for $850. You cannotbuy one of George's rods for that! Plus you can make more. What a bargin. We are lucky that both Wayne and George teach courses. Building acane rod is no easy task - you need an experienced rodmaker to help youlearn.Be prepared to spend many hours each day in class. Wayne's studentsspent normally 10 - 14 hours each day in class ( from my experience). By the endof the week you are totally exhausted but proud of what you haveaccomplished. Lots of luck Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 9 20:46:54 1995 Subject: Quote for 10/9 "The rod I used is made of heat-tempered bamboo; it is 7.5' long andweighs exactly 2.74 ounces. It is slower than the sticks usually classified as having dry-fly action. The butt section works. It doesn't shrug off the load but flexes down into the corks.... So the whole outfit, line included, doesn't heft much over 6 ounces. I can swing it all day long without a blister. It has stopped big trout and Atlantic salmon without stress. In twelve years I have broken two tips in the usual way rods are demolished-- with a car door." from "The Compleat McClane" A.J. McClane (1988 Plume) from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 10 20:29:10 1995 Subject: Quote for 10/10 "As to glass or bamboo, I have always preferred bamboo over glass and am still considered a holdout. True, I've fished with many glass rods that I've designed myself for the manufacturers, so one would think that I'vearrived at the perfect rod at least for myself. This is not the case. When I think of glass, I unconsciously begin to push hard and slash at the water, fighting the elements. Bamboo, on the other hand, sets me calm and quiet, and I find that if I "feel" the rod and almost go along with what it wants to do with the particular rig that I have attached to the line at the moment, my efforts are more than rewarded." from "Tactics on Trout" by Ray Ovington (1969 - Knopf) Very enjoyable book, good thoughts on rods. Say, if anyone reading this knows someone who needs a slightly used Sr. Software Engineer, my firmjust went through major downsizing and I am now looking for new employmentin the MA or NH area. Ordinarily, I wouldn't be too concerned, but I saw in a store Green (yes, Seth Green) ca. 1897 with a great section on rods ... and I didn't feel I should buy it! This sort of fiscal responsibility is totally foreign to me and must be exorcised; so, somebody tell me about a job. Of course, its probably to late to get the book... Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Oct 11 07:10:22 1995 Subject: Reed contact me! Reed Curry please contact me! (direct mail to Reed bounced). /-----------------------------------------------------\Russell GelinasExperimental Space Physics/Ocean Process Analysis LabUniversity of New Hampshire, Durham NH (USA)gelinas@ekman.unh.edu\------------------------------------------- ----------/ from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Oct 11 17:07:04 1995 Subject: Re: Reed contact me! (direct mail to Reed bounced). Russ,I wonder why it bounced? Did you send to my personal net address (rcurry@jlc.net) or my "old" (last Thurs.) work address(reed@palette.com)?Anyway, I be here. Just reply to this missive.What's up?Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Oct 11 18:56:25 1995 Subject: Quote for 10/11 "In the first place, sheer lightness in a rod doesn't necessarily mean less effort. The difference between a two ounce rod and a longer five ouncemodel in ratio to the angler's total weight on the scales is about the same as drinking half a tumbler full of water or going thirsty." "The point is, ask not what you can do for the rod but what the rod can do any reasonable length of lineoff the water for the backcast because therereally isn't that much line clutched by surface tension." "Can't I, after all this, find at least one kind thing to say about our new short fly rods? Well, yes, perhaps this, I am reminded of the countrysage's defense of bad breath. "It's mighty unpleasant, but it beats no breath atall." from "Fly-fishing Heresies" by Leonard M. Wright (1975 - Winchester) This is a two thumbs up. Some great ideas in this book. Pithy writing, too. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Oct 12 15:06:20 1995 Subject: Quote for 10/12 "While a 7.5 foot, lightweight rodis very good for small trout streams, for wet-fly salmon fishing ... a rod from 11.5 feet to 14.5 feet long might be selected, in weights that range from 16.5 to 24 ounces." "Only use, real fly-casting and fish-killing use, will show the character of a rod." "A first-class, well-balanced fly rod weighing 5.5 ounces will actuallyfeel lighter than an inferior rod of poor balance that weighs two ounces less." from "Fly Casting for the Novice and the Expert" (1941 - Outdoor LifeBooks) Neat little book. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Oct 14 20:14:17 1995 Subject: Impregnation Help Wanted, I am about to complete a cane blank that I believe to be a Wes Jordan 8 '. I can't tell if the rod has been impregnated. How can I tell? The colour ishoney or dark straw. Any hints would be appreciated. Thanks JB from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 15 08:27:55 1995 Subject: Wes Jorden Blank -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- If the shaft is labeled "Wes Jorden", it is almost surely impregnatedwith bakelite "phenolic" resins. However, the color you describedisturbs me. The color of the resin contributed to a darkish browncolor. Certainly not a straw color. If the finish is smooth and seemsintact (satin), I would go with it as it is. The only way to be sure isto cut all the way through the blank. I'm sure you don't want to dothat. Good luck. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Oct 15 20:35:10 1995 Subject: Quote for 10/15 "And how you should make your rod skillfully, I will tell you. You must cut, between Michaelmas and Candlemas, a fair, smooth staff six feet long, or longer if you wish, of hazel, willow or aspen; and heat it in an oven when you bake, and set it as exactly straight as you can make it; then let it cool and dry for four weeks or maore. Then take it and bind it tight with a good cord to a bench or to an exactly squared timber. Then take a plumber's wire that is straight and strong and sharp at one end. Heat the sharp end in a charcoal fire till it is hot, and pierce the shaft with it through the pith of the shaft -- first at one end and then at the other until it is all the way through. Then take a bird spit and burn the hole as you think fit, until it is big enough for your purpose and like a taper of wax; and then wax it. .... "In the same season, take a rod of white hazel and beath it even and straight, and let it dry in the same way as the staff; and when they are dry, make the rod fit the hole in the said staff..." from "The Treatise of Fishing with an Angle" (1450) as modernized in "The Origins of Angling" by John McDonald (1963 Doubleday) So, heat-tempered and hollow-built, eh. If I'd included the whole section you'd have had the full instructions for building a 3 piece, 18' hollowbuilt fly rod, envy of your neighbors. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 16 16:24:48 1995 Subject: Re: Wes Jordan blank Looks like the LISTPROC choked on this note from Alan Grombacher. pass it along to you all... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= If the rod is an Orvis Wes Jordan then it will be impregnated, if it is aCross Wes Jordan then it should be coated (varnished). Alberta Al P.S. Where did you find a Wes Jordan blank? from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 17 09:55:50 1995 Subject: Wes Jordan Blank Received some mail from Bond...James Bond! :-)regarding his Wes Jordan blank. Some interesting background onthe blank, so I thought pass it along to ya'll... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Subject: "The Blank"Content-Length: 681 Michael, Thanks for the note on the blank. As there is no writing on it, I can'tdiscern if it has been impregnated or not. As the rod is still unbuilt, doyou have any other suggestions? I purchased the blank through David Klausmeyer who is a rod builder inMaine. He purchased a quantity of blanks from Wes when he (Wes) was atOrvis. David had the blanks for many years and never did anything withthemso he opted to sell them. They are 8' 2/2. They were made with resorcinolglue and are well built. They are about twenty five years old. I plan to complete the rod this winter but I'm still trying to figure out ifthey have been inpregnated. Can I tell by colour? JB from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 20 11:18:55 1995 Subject: Quote for 10/19 "Ordinarily the man accustomed to a 9-foot fly rod would reduce to oneabout 7 feet long and feel that he was equipped for working a small brook. This,I beg to point out, is only the palest concession to that kind of angling. If we chop 4 feet off that, however, the remaining 3 foot length will permit casting from almost any position. I use mine right- or left-handed, withthe tip pointing almost at the water. Because of the length and essentially greater line speed, the rod throws tight loops, which permits castingunder obstacles with relative ease. There is no tendency to "hook" casts off the target, as you certainly must when casting with a longer rod in a purely horizontal plane." from "Fishing with McClane" edited by George Reiger (1975 - PrenticeHall) This article on the virtue of 36-40" fly rods is a gem. He even suggest the proper taper. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 20 17:30:14 1995 Subject: Splicing Blocks Follow-up to Grayling. John Long is making splicing blocks finance his fishing trip to Russia. I got mine today and it is worththe price. I've been using one made out of maple and his is cold rolledsteel. It is spring loaded and should last a lifetime.The price is $50 plus $10 S&H for those who want a good splicingblock. He can be reached at: John N. Long 16231 Appleby LN Northville, MI 48167 PH 313-420-0267 Also noticed in Trend Lines woodworking catalog I just gotthey have the Record 9 1/2 plane on sale for $34.95 which is a goodprice. If you already get the catalog you get an additional 10% off. Ph 1-800-767-9999 for ordering and 800-877-7899 for customerservice. item nr: XXR0912. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 23 14:55:11 1995 Subject: Low Humidity I live in the Southern California area, and every so often wehave a condition where a wind blows off of the desert. It'scalled a Santa Ana wind. When this happens the relativehumidity goes down to the teens. I was wondering if anybodyknew of something I could do to take advantage of this as faras drying out my stored bamboo. Should I bring the culmsoutside to dry, or lay them out on my table indoors? Or doesthe bamboo pick up moisture when conditions return tonormal, so there is nothing to be gained by extra dry conditions? Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 23 17:17:16 1995 Subject: German Rodmakers To All: Is there any German rodmakers listening in? I'm goingto be in the Munich area on business and have the weekend of3/4 November free. I thought it might be nice to meet up withso european rodmakers. I have car so I can travel. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 24 22:49:15 1995 Subject: Humidity -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- The cane reaches an equilibrium moisture content base upon the averagehumidity in and area. Normally, this condition is arrived at slowly.Often over the period of a year - or more. You may be able to lowerthe average percentage of moisture somewhat by exposing the cane to alow humidity atmosphere; but, It would gradually return to the average One of the reasons that we kiln our cane before final shaping is toreduce the moisture content. Ofcourse, exposure to heat cause oraccelerates other chemical reactions which, by the way, are ratherextensive. I believe a maker should be careful not to get the percent of moisturetoo low when gluing the rod with certain adhesives. Because, somevarieties do not cure properly without the presence of at least 4.5 to5 % moisture. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 27 17:01:36 1995 Subject: Re: Am I still here? I was wondering the same thing. I sent Reed a note -thought he got lost. Guess everyone just not intowinter rodmaking yet and trying to get in last minutefishing. I'll be off for two weeks so I hope tohave some activity before I get back. Got no bites from German rodmakers so I guess it's Schnitzel and beer! Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Oct 27 20:55:25 1995 Subject: Quote for 10/27 "When the bamboo is received (in the US), it is checked for moisture content. If it is over 13% it must again be stored and dried until it is 13% or less. Storing and drying bamboo anywhere in the U.S. under natural air drying conditions with the exceptions of parts of Arizona and Death Valley will never reduce the moisture content of the bamboo to less than 8% and very rarely as low as 8%. A hundred years of storing and drying will not reduce it lower than this... If your climate has a relative humidity of 50% you can air dry bamboo to 9.5% moisture content. ... Bamboo with 13% moisture content will shrink little in any part of the U.S. and works up well for fishing rods. Lower moisture contents are, however, some better. careful, slow, scientific kiln drying, the moisture content can be safely reduced to as low as 4% without damaging the bamboo in any way. In fact,4% scientifically kiln dried bamboo makes excellent rods." from "Professional Split-Bamboo Rod Building Manual and Maufacturer'sGuide" This work has George's infamous penchant for opinion, let the facts fall where they may. Should be examined for the taper discussions; the onlyplace you'll likely see a description of the Castleconnell Kick Taper. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Oct 28 14:10:12 1995 Subject: Quote for 10/28 "Well over a century ago, the classic British chalk streams were fishedwith live insects on gossamer silk, wind-carried "blow lines". So, the treeswere cut back from the riverbank a hundred feet or more to give the wind full, even sweep. Today, the typical chalk stream bank has only a lowoccasional bush behind which the angler must kneel for cover; hence the kneepad. And since the angler may have to wait hours for a rise to develop, and no tree handy against which to lean his rod, the removable or collapsible butt-spear enables him to stand his rod upright and safe on the turf. It is not intended, as some light-minded American types insist, to repel the chargeof an infuriated trout." A note by Sparse Grey Hackle in "Great Fishing Catalogs of the Golden Age" (1972) I'd really always wondered... Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Oct 28 14:28:08 1995 Subject: Re: Am I still here? On Fri, 27 Oct 1995 18:40:41 -0500, Richard Nathan wrote: Am I still on this list or is it just really quiet? Rick You are still here. I, for one, have nothing to say these days. What passed for my rod-building area is now chock full of other house stuff while the kitchen is being remodelled. Why Reed or the other more vocal builders are quiet is for them to say. Are you making anything?John from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Oct 28 16:35:44 1995 Subject: Tapers -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Reed. What in the hell is the Castle McConnick Kick-Taper? I know a fewthings with a kick to them and they more often than not involveimbibing, not tapering. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Oct 28 19:12:16 1995 Subject: Re: Tapers -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Reed. What in the hell is the Castle McConnick Kick-Taper? I know a fewthings with a kick to them and they more often than not involveimbibing, not tapering. John, et al, "Castleconnell Kick Taper: This taper was used sometime back in Ireland and England on long salmon rods. However, it is no longer in use. Themiddle part of the rod is made weak so that the rod is top heavy. Because of this the rod "kicks" the line out." G.L.Herter from the illustration I assume it to be an early "parabolic" wherein the lower 1/3 of the mid (to quote) "area drops sharply and then proceeds witha very slight taper". The stiff tip gives that final kick which is difficult to control on short casts, but can actually strip line off the reel on long casts. I have a rod made by my wife's grandfather (tied a beautiful full-dress salmon fly) which has these properties; a joy on long casts but feels twice as heavy as it really is. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Oct 28 23:12:45 1995 Subject: Walker Bampton Rods In years past I had the opportunity to cast several Walker-Bampton rods ofvarious lengths. As I recall, they were very fast and light for a Britishbuilt production rod, or for that matter, even the typical Orvis/SouthBend/Granger/Heddon rods. Is anyone familiar with the rods or theirtapers?Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 30 11:22:10 1995 Subject: Am I still here? Chris, Got no bites from German rodmakers so I guess it's Schnitzel and beer! No Schnitzel and beer, but this is from Germany. I had almost no time forrodbuilding and e-mailing during the last 1/2 year, but a few days ago Iresubscribed to the list. Have a good time, See you in 2 weeks. Frank Neunemann from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 30 13:02:32 1995 Subject: My new web site OK, I took the plunge and decided to put the FAQ on the World Wide Web.Check out the following site. http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html It will automatically send you to the ftp site for the GIF files and youcan email me from there too! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 30 14:32:31 1995 Subject: Lie-Nielsen Scraper Two weeks ago I took the plunge and invested in aLie-Nielsen scraper. The thing is so pricey I havehad reservations about buying it. I figured that theregular cabinet scraper was good enough.After fiddling around with it for a week figuringout how it works and using it on a few of my rejectedsplines (I just knew they would come in handy if Ikept them), I finally used it on the tip section of athree piece hollow rod I'm building.My recommendation is BUY IT! Because it is abodied scraper, it scrapes the surface off flat. Aregular cabinet scraper follows the waves and dipsas you scrape. The Lie-Nielsen scraper can be setto take off scrapings so thin they are transparent.This is the tool which will allow you to get tothousandths of an inch tolerance. It also does agreat job of fixing lifts and chips at the nodes. Itis well worth the cost. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Oct 30 17:59:35 1995 Subject: My rodbuilding project (Part 1) Hi all, I thought I would pass on my experiences of the first stage of building a bamboo fly rod. Hopefully, it might be helpful for those of you who have not yet started building a rod. I know I can't addanything which isn't in the FAQ, but it might be from a different perspective ( from someone who doesn't have a clue). Also, I was hoping to get some advice on a few aspects of the process which I don't think I understand very in depth. I'll put ***'s by my questions. First, I will tell you that I have not tried to do this the cheapest way possible since I travel about 4-5 days a week and would rather spend a little more money than spend my time trying to find tools at the lowest price. If you want spend time looking at garage sales, I know you could find quality tools for a lot less than I have spent. I am really just starting to build a rod. I have got together most of the tools, and have taken practice cane strips through the first planning step. I started out with Waynes book to get an overview of the process. I have found that I missed a huge amount of info in it the first time I read through it. I now make sure to read the chapter relating to what I'm doing over once or twice over. (Cost $40). I also ordered the Garrison book last month and have got a chance to read it in the last few weeks. (Cost $75). It is interesting and I am glad I got it, but as far a building a rod, I think I will be getting most of the info from Wayne's book. It is helpful in that you can get the same info from another angle sometimes when you are confussed. The most costly items I got dealt with the block plane. I found a Stanley 9 1/2 block plane for $32 at Builder's Square. Where it started adding up was a Hock blade ($20), waterstone ($40, yes Iknow I got screwed there), and sharping guild ($15). Where I have the most questions right now is the best way to split the culms. I ordered 3 ($123 total with shipping) and am playing around with the worst one (it has the identification marking on it). I tried using a blade by hand, pushing it into the culm and twisting it to go through the nodes. I seemed to work very good (I was surprised) down to to point where I had 6 strips. At that point the split would sometime start to go off course and I can not figure out how to direct it at all. I have read the Garrison book and followed the advice of putting pressor on the side which is getting bigger to correct the problem, but so far have never been able to effect it. I also tried this last weekend to secure the blade in my vice ($30) and push the culm through. Using this method, almost every split went off course, compared to the half that went off course when I was pushing the blade through the culm. I also played around with using side-cutting pliers on the nodes, but no luck. *** Any advice from those of you with a few rods under your belt? *** I just picked up a heat gun which a range of 120F to 1100F ($42) this last weekend. I used to to straiten the nodes in my vice. It worked great and I was surprised how easy it was. I heated the nodes for about 1-2 minutes each and put them in the vice to let them cool off. I also cleaned up the nodes which a sanding block to level out the nodes. I was confussed about how much material to remove from the cane when I preparing the nodes, but found it was not that confussing once I started and could see how much I could remove before getting to the power fibers. I used two oak strips to make my first planning form. I have been happy with the forms so far and think I will use oak again for the second planning forms. Right now I am planning on using cold-rolled steel for the final planning forms in a push-pull method. *** Anyone have any options on using oak for the second planning form? *** Other misc costs so far: Oak strips ($6),Depth gage and metal base ($20),Dial caliper ($15),2 center gages ($7),Sanding block ($10). *** Another question. Where can I get a 60 degree point for my depth gage? I saw in the FAQ and Wayne's book that Starrlet (sp??) sold one, but I don't know what Starrlet is. *** Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 31 07:26:58 1995 Subject: Misc thoughts Question about splitting? Once you have 6 strips are you splitting themin half (down the middle) for twelve pieces or are you trying to split each3times starting at one edge? Down the middle is the only way to go.Splittingin from one edge causes a problem - tapered pieces. By splitting the 1/6thpieces in half to 1/12ths balances the amount of material on each side ofthesplitting knife. DO NOT push into the knife - use a twisting action on theknife - that way you can better control walking. To move (walk) the knife(split line) - using wrist pressure - presure the thicker side of the splitagainst the knife and then twist to move the split. Also keep the knifeperpendicular to the arched surface of the bamboo - this prevents'backcuts'.Forms - the first and second angle forms can be made of wood - thefinalfinish forms are best nade of crs.60 deg gauge point - E- mail address and i'll send you one. Starret#6632/6.As Darryl mentioned about the Lie-Neilsen scraper - sometimes thebest touse is the most expensive. I'm sure that if you were to add up the dollarvalue that most of us have in fly tying materials that it would exceed the$700 - $800 it takes to start making fly rods - However that investmentwasspread out over several years and usually started at $100 for a vise and ahandful of feathers and fur. With rod making you pretty much need it allthefirst time through.I'm quite often teased at work about the cost of bamboo fly rods andsome of the accessories that I have (Ballan Reels and silk lines) - But Istop to remind a few of my co workers that at best it all represents only acouple of payments on a bass boat. That's why they buy their poles frombargain barrels.As a last bit of consulation just think of the expense of buying 8 ofeverything. WayneCasnovia, Mi from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Oct 31 20:23:34 1995 Subject: To Scott Re Starrett -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- That is a company, based in Conn. that sells all manner of niftymensuration devices - all of the best quality. You can get 60 degreepoints from them for about $3.