from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Nov 2 10:45:37 1995 Subject: Wahoo! The web page is popular The web page has over 50 hits already! Thanks guys for checking it out. Ihave added some features (which will be implemented shortly). Of courseYOU won't take advantage fo the auto-subscribe list. *grin* ANyway, if there are thing you would like to see on the web page, just letme know and I'll do what I can. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 06:35:32 1995 Subject: planing forms It's been pretty quiet here lately, so I think I'll throw out a question that I'm sure has been covered in great depth. Regardless, I need some advice: I'm starting to make a set of final planing forms. Once the stock is square and tapped, what is the best jig to get the perfect 30' bevels? I was thinking of a block of hardwood that would sit on top of the stock and hold the file at the correct angle- this would keep the bevel square to the top of the form (which I assume is most important). I could then remove material just by sliding the block across the top of the form. One of the problems I face is that I don't have a surface that is smooth/flat/level enough for 6 feet of square steel stock. I thought by riding the jig along the top of the form, I could avoid this dilemma. any thoughts? Best regards, Hans_____________________________________________________________________________ "The worst monotonous drone coming from a lectern or the most eye-splittingtextbook written in turgid English is nothing in comparison to the psychological Sahara that starts right in your bedroom and spurns the horizon." -Joseph Brodsky, from "In praise of Boredom" delivered as a commencement address at Dartmouth College._____________________________________________________________________________ Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermonthbeernin@protein.med.uvm.edu http://moose.uvm.edu/~hbeernin/ from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 09:25:16 1995 Subject: Form ideas An idea that might work to form the v's in the planing forms would be this- First epoxy glue a 8" triangler file to a piece of nylon or plexiglass. Thenusing a set of feeler gauges open the forms up so that there is .060 to .070gap between the two sides(it must be even). Then using the triangle filejustfile the grooves in as needed. Sighting the nylon or plexiglass as anindicator uniform with the form surface. I have never used this method tocompletely make a set of forms but I have used it to straighten out acoupleof badly machined sets and it works well. The key is to pull the trianglefile and not to push it. The reason for the gap is that the file doesn't cometo a sharp point at the corner and this is a way to expose the accuratesides. With a little geometery I'm sure you could work out the correcttaper.If there is a correct taper. Remember that as long as the slope is uniform from station (set screws) to station the adjustability of the forms is thesalvation just don't file them too deep at the tip ends Wayne. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 09:57:36 1995 Subject: Forms further In thinking about making forms I thought that I should also explain how toget the two sides extremely flat. CRS can at times be more of a rhombusvssquare and you may have some inaccuracies in drilling the bolt holes. WhenIwas straightening out the forms that I mentioned earlier I also used a 14"mill bastard file to file the forms extremely flat ( I was checking thiswitha 6" beveled square) . Now most of a file is hard but just at the handle issoft so I drilled a hole there and mounted a block of wood for a handle. thekey here is to run the file as much on the forms as possible - in otherwordscant the file accross the forms only enough so that you are filing thecomplete surface and not making a valley down the center. The forms thatIrepaired had about .010 to .014 difference in elevation (both sides) and ittook about 3 - 4 hours to correct both sides. But when I was finished theforms were as flat as if they had been surface ground. If you don't use toomuch pressure on the file the surface finish is equal to having been groundwith a 120 grip rotating stone. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 10:54:58 1995 Subject: Re: Forms further Wayne,Now I feel better. I was going by your book and the articles in The Planing Form and using a stone to get my forms flat. It was taking forever, so I gave up on the stone and used a new bastard file. It still took several hours, but that's better than several weeks.John from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 15:30:41 1995 Subject: Re: Forms I would like to make a form from hard wood ( maple maybe ). Is the triangle file accurate enough to do a good job ( angle wise)?Will it work OK for wood? If I make the form flat by passing it through a planner ( large industrial feed through type ) will it be flat enough? Something I an confused about, is why the form must be so perfectly flat. I thought you were supposed to mic. all the way along,and so the accuracy of the flatness of the form ( within reason )should not matter right? Am I missing something? from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 16:05:46 1995 Subject: Re: Forms Mauro seez... Something I an confused about, is why the form must be so perfectly flat. I thought you were supposed to mic. all the way along,and so the accuracy of the flatness of the form ( within reason )should not matter right? Am I missing something? As I understand it, with a *steel form*, flatness is imperativebecause you are actually planing and/or scraping down to the actualmetal of the form. In essence, the form also becomes a measuringdevice. The advantage being, that once the forms are set, much lessmeasuring is required due the form be set to the dimension required. With wooden forms, you are right, flatness is not an issue, becauseyou can't go all the way down to the form without reducing the formalso. So, the wooden form becomes strictly a device to steady thepiece while planing, thereby requiring frequent measurements withthe caliper/mic. You can make a wooden form with a tapering groovethat is close to you final dimensions...that should help, but onceyou get close, it seems to me that you would have to take a measurementevery one or two passes of the plane. Has anyone out there used wooden forms for final planing? Is my understanding correct... Mike Biondo- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 16:18:09 1995 Subject: Re: Forms With wooden forms, you are right, flatness is not an issue, becauseyou can't go all the way down to the form without reducing the formalso. So, the wooden form becomes strictly a device to steady thepiece while planing, thereby requiring frequent measurements withthe caliper/mic. You can make a wooden form with a tapering groovethat is close to you final dimensions...that should help, but onceyou get close, it seems to me that you would have to take a measurementevery one or two passes of the plane. Has anyone out there used wooden forms for final planing? Is my understanding correct... Mike Biondo- Mike, I use my wood forms to go to final dimensions. But my plane is modifiedsothe blade doesn't hit the forms. It works fine. I also use a scraper onthe forms and it takes a little dust off the forms, but not anysignificant amount of wood. Works fine. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 16:27:37 1995 Subject: Re: Forms Bruce sayeth... I use my wood forms to go to final dimensions. But my plane is modifiedsothe blade doesn't hit the forms. It works fine. I also use a scraper onthe forms and it takes a little dust off the forms, but not anysignificant amount of wood. Works fine. That makes sense...if you can keep the blade off the form you shouldbe alright. So Bruce, do you make new forms for each rod that youbuild? How do compensate for the adjustability of the steel form? Mike Biondo- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 16:27:41 1995 Subject: Re: Forms Bruce sayeth... I use my wood forms to go to final dimensions. But my plane is modifiedsothe blade doesn't hit the forms. It works fine. I also use a scraper onthe forms and it takes a little dust off the forms, but not anysignificant amount of wood. Works fine. That makes sense...if you can keep the blade off the form you shouldbe alright. So Bruce, do you make new forms for each rod that youbuild? How do compensate for the adjustability of the steel form? Mike Biondo- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 7 16:57:29 1995 Subject: Re: Forms Bruce sayeth... I use my wood forms to go to final dimensions. But my plane is modifiedsothe blade doesn't hit the forms. It works fine. I also use a scraper onthe forms and it takes a little dust off the forms, but not anysignificant amount of wood. Works fine. That makes sense...if you can keep the blade off the form you shouldbe alright. So Bruce, do you make new forms for each rod that youbuild? How do compensate for the adjustability of the steel form? Mike Biondo- I made my wood forms out of two pieces of 5 foot by 1 by 2 inch rockmaplenad made them the same push pull adjustments and grooves as the metalforms. Thge threads are right in the wood, I just made em tight and waxedthe shoulder bolts on the threads and the shoulder so they move easily.They hold dimensions very well and ended up costing me about $20 total tomake. I clamped the two boards together with a couple of screws, planed andscraped the surfaces ( a surface planer would have been nice!) and thendrilled all the holes for the adjustment bolts. Then I adjusted the forms"in reverse", that is, the narrow part of the form is set wide apart so thetool takes hardly any cut and the end that is to be deep is set closetogether. Then I used a 60 degree lathe tool mounted in a little woodblock as a scraper. Just set the tool so it barely cuts and then scrapethe groove out until it stops cutting and set the tool a little deeper.Keep this up till the groove is deep enough. Took me an evening to do bothsides of the form (one side for butts and the other for tips) I can makea.035 tip spline without too much problem on these forms. Steel is nice,but not required. Of course, if anybody want to send me some steel forms Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Nov 13 09:56:11 1995 Subject: Design Thoughts I have had several conversations with some of the list members andothers sohopefully Reed will get input to his project. from what I've seen fromviewing several writen original tapers is that many of the makers usedfineradjustments than the prescribed 5" or 6" tapers - some used as fine as 11/2"which may or may not be useful. I am adding adjustment stations at 2 1/2"tomy forms now - so a basic concept to any program is to have it acceptinformation in increments as ssmall as 1" or maybe as close as !/2" andlikewise the reports that it issues should do as well. The major flaw thatIhear of about Hexrod is that it doesn't spool and retrieve to disk or harddrive. That brings up another consideration of how much info you want tostore and at what stages of calculation( dimensions, stress values,deflection)? When I wrote Hexrod I was using an XT and hard drives wereunheard of. (Does that sound as if I'm dating myself?) Another primeconsideration (for me at least) would be the many years of rod tapers andconcepts and how they would convert. I have a 3" ring binder under myworkbench that is overflowing with odd scrapes of notes and printoutscoveringabout 11 years of work.Another ambious project would be to graphically illustrate the rod asitis being cast on a computer screen from the data derived from a designprogram - Craig Spolack could share his thoughts on line models and thetwocould be intertwinded. Wayne Cattanach(cold and snowy)Casnovia, MI from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Nov 13 12:48:34 1995 Subject: Re: Design Thoughts Thanks to Wayne for his excellent input. Actually, I think the bestapproach extrapolating to any desired increments, would be to permit the user to input at any stations. Thus if he needed to measure at 5", 12.5", 17.75", etc. because of wraps he would be able to do so. I would then apply the spline curve and derive the final user-selected output stations, e.g. every 3", 5", whatever. Another ambious project would be to graphically illustrate the rod asitis being cast on a computer screen from the data derived from a designprogram - Craig Spolack could share his thoughts on line models and thetwocould be intertwinded. I would be definitely interested in Craig's offerings. Graphical output shouldn't be very difficult; unless one wanted 3D wireframe, actually, Idid that for similar applications, not too bad, used Bezier patches. Certainly something to consider. Also printing. Thanks, Wayne. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Nov 13 14:47:41 1995 Subject: Re: Design Thoughts Not all rods are monotonic in slope. Use smaller station spaces.Regards, Cliff from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Nov 13 17:03:50 1995 Subject: Re: Design Thoughts Reed Since everyone is joining in with their X-mass wish list -here is mine. I want a design tool. To me that means a capabilityto what if... I want to play with the numbers without re-inputtingdata. Let me change line weight, ferrules, stations etc and lookat the results. Also I want to go backwards from the result - IfI design a rod and then don't like the stress number - let me reduce the resultant number and see what the diameter should ofbeen to give me that number. We also should consider a tool thatallows us to do a better job of reverse engineering old rods. Oh by the way - how about using SPC input from a digitalcaliper or mic??? Is Santa that good ??? Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Nov 13 19:44:01 1995 Subject: Re: Design Thoughts Do you mean Graig Spolek of Portland State University?Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Nov 13 20:22:24 1995 Subject: Re: Design Thoughts While we're at it, why not wish for a direct feed from the software into aCNC machine adapted for milling tapers? from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Nov 13 22:33:06 1995 Subject: Repost from FF@- Rod Tube from Bamboo Culm? I thought you cane folks might be interested in the response I got fromTerje on my question of building a cane rod tube. I've enjoyed yourRodmaking List althought I have yet to build a cane rod. Tight Lines! Return-path: Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 23:50:32 +0100From: Terje Tveras Subject: Re: Rod Tube from Bamboo Culm?Sender: Fly Fishing Digest X-Sender: edptt@alf.uib.no David L. DeVries asked:Would it be possible to make a rod tube from a length of bamboo culm? Idon't know it would be possible to cleanly remove the inner separations,anddo you think the thing would eventually split as it aged? I already wrote an answer to this thread yesterday, but when I stretchedmylegs and was away for five minutes, my cat had stepped over thekeyboardand deleted all my return mail. Although she might object to what I hadwritten, I insist of trying again in her absence: Hardy made rod tubes out of bamboo culms before WWII, for 3p rods up to12ft, and for certain tip sections of salmon rods. Thsee rod tubes arebeautiful pieces of handicraft and work fine for some of my cane rods. Ihave a few of them, bought in England from tackle dealers. To preventthem from splitting, Hardy wrapped 3/4 in of green or red silk on each foot ofthe tudes. On the bottom end they are enforced with a piece of mahogny,andaround the opening there is a brass cylinder with a leather cap and strap.There is a Hardy inscription on the surface, and the entire tube isvarnished. To remove the separations in the wood you need a long tool, Iguess. One of the tubes I have has a charming S-form, obviously arejectedculm to making a rod, but good enough to house one. --Terje Tveras ------------------------------------------------------------------------"Astonishment is one of the chief by-products of life." Harry MiddletonDavid L. DeVries Communications Dept Calif State Univ. Fullertonnet: DDevries@Fullerton.Edu Voice:714.773.3004 Fax: 714.773.2209 from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Nov 16 19:06:53 1995 Subject: Old bamboo fly rod prices I have a friend who's Uncle passed away and his widow is selling his old fly rods. I am interested in purchasing these rods for a fair price, alas, I really don't know the value of these rods. Montague Rapidian 8.5'McGill Redfire Trout sizeFoothill Trout sizeHeddon Riptide #19-9'-23/4F GB GOV C If someone could tell me the market value of the above rods I would appreciate it. Any information about what the #19-9'-23/4F GB GOV Cmeanswould be appreciated too. Thanks & tight lines,Mac from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Nov 19 11:23:09 1995 Subject: Swelled Butt I am new to bamboo rod making (I am starting my 5th rod) and I have ataperthat calls for a swelled butt that I want to try. Any ideas on how to dothis, my forms are not adjustable enough to accomidate this taper at thebutt. Thanks, Jon Clarke from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Nov 20 12:35:06 1995 Subject: lock box Subject: Time:11:26 AMOFFICE MEMO lock box Date:11/20/95 I want to buy or fabricate a stout, lockable box for fishing eqpt to bemounted inside the new truck. Possibly on the tail gate so any effort tobreak into it would be conspicuous. I plan to shroud the lock so a crowbarwould be needed.Any rodmakers know of such a thing for sale? Full size truck, length ofbox to fit a 9ft in two pieces if possible. Say 3/16 steel or alum channel.Regards, CLiffclsojourner@lbl.gov from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 21 09:37:17 1995 Subject: tonkin Hi, I'm a new dutch member of this list,and buiding cane-rods for several years.But I've got a problem getting the tonkin-cane. Does anyone know a place in W-Europe where I canbuy the right Cane? Thanks Hans Kohl +---------------------------+ | E-mail: HAKO@pop.pi.net | | Date: 11/08/95 | | Time: 11:54:22 | +------------------------- --+ from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Nov 22 15:25:11 1995 Subject: Re: Swelled Butt Jon I haven't seen a reply to this question yet so here'smy two cents. You can either modify the butt section of your finalplaning form to accomondate the drastic taper or make yourselfa disposable wood (maple) form with the taper if you don't wantto touch your final form. I would suggest giving Wayne's triangle bastard file epoxied to plexiglass a try to relievethe V grouve. I know that I don't use the far right sideof my final form Sooooo.... Lots of luck Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Nov 22 19:16:33 1995 Subject: Re: Swelled Butt Jon, RE. THE SWELLED BUTT PROBLEM. Just set your groove to a large enough straight tapeer and slide the splineback and forth in it to achieve the proper taper just as you would do withanon-adjustable form. I've made al ot of swelled butt rods, and many ofthemwere on a non-adjustable form. Good luck. My best, Dave Engerbretson dengerbr@moscow.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Nov 28 20:51:42 1995 Subject: Re: how ? Subject: Time:3:35 PMOFFICE MEMO how ? Date:11/27/95 A friend wants to sign up for rodmakers. How to do?Pleaee reply emailRegared, Cliffclsojourner@lbl.gov In email body type: SUBSCRIBE RODMAKERS Your Name I've found this group very informative and am looking forward to buildingmyfirst bamboo rod as soon as I finish my thesis.Mac Frey