from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 11:36:19 1995 Subject: Shoulder bolts I've been working on a final set of planing forms, and am doing quite well. The only problem I'm having is finding the required hardware. I've been to every supply store I can find, and nobody has even heard of shoulder bolts. Any thoughts on where I can find these elusive pieces? Thanks, Hans _____________________________________________________________________________ "The worst monotonous drone coming from a lectern or the most eye-splittingtextbook written in turgid English is nothing in comparison to the psychological Sahara that starts right in your bedroom and spurns the horizon." -Joseph Brodsky, from "In praise of Boredom" delivered as a commencement address at Dartmouth College._____________________________________________________________________________Hans T.H. Beernink, Department of Biochemistry, University of Vermonthbeernin@protein.med.uvm.edu http://moose.uvm.edu/~hbeernin/ from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 12:31:13 1995 Subject: Re: Shoulder bolts Hans seez... I've been working on a final set of planing forms, and am doing quite well. The only problem I'm having is finding the required hardware. I've been to every supply store I can find, and nobody has even heard of shoulder bolts. Any thoughts on where I can find these elusive pieces? I've seen them listed as Axle Bolts, also. You might try that.Might also be a good idea to bring Wayne's book along when yougo out shopping. Pretty sure he has picture of them in there.I've found that a picture is indeed worth a thousand words whencomes to dealing with the run of the mill salesperson. Mike Biondo- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 12:36:37 1995 Subject: Re: Shoulder bolts Hans I've been working on a final set of planing forms, and am doing quite well. The only problem I'm having is finding the required hardware. I've been to every supply store I can find, and nobody has even heard of shoulder bolts. Any thoughts on where I can find these elusive pieces? Do you have access to a lathe, you can make some, otherwise a machine shop can make you some. Does UVM have a machine shop??? good luck,Tom Ausfeld (TOM@SP1.dhmc.dartmouth.edu)Newbury, Vermont from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 12:50:16 1995 Subject: Re: Shoulder bolts If you can't find them locally, the ENCO catalog has them.You can call them at 800-860-3400. They are sold in boxes of 25 for about $7, for the size that Wayne C. recommends in his book. If you need it, I'll look up the catalog numbers tonight. If youjust call them and send for a catalog, it'll take months for itto arrive. I need to get back to my own planing forms, now that fishing season,deer hunting, and the local flyfishing club banquet are about over.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterInformation and Media Technologies than a waterproof coat and a Univ Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 1 Dec 1995, Hans Beernink wrote: I've been working on a final set of planing forms, and am doing quite well. The only problem I'm having is finding the required hardware. I've been to every supply store I can find, and nobody has even heard of shoulder bolts. Any thoughts on where I can find these elusive pieces? Thanks, Hans from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 13:06:12 1995 Subject: Shoulder bolts - Video The shoulder bolt idea was before others came up with using dowel pinswith a bolt on one side and a set screw on the other. If you like I can senda drawing of what it looks like (need address). This is a good example howgetting more involved brings new and better ideas to the craft. And inkeeping an open mind you can always learn something new. As a thought for friday afternoon - After more than a year I finishedthe video that I was working on. I don't mean to advertise here but I havehad many request on when it might be done. The video is a 2 tape set and is31/2 hours long. Make a big bag of popcorn Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 13:36:11 1995 Subject: Re: Shoulder bolts - Video Like everyone else, I'd be interested (well, eager, really.) How much? from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 14:19:55 1995 Subject: Re: Shoulder bolts - Video Wayne,I'd like a drawing of the dowel-pin setup. You could put it in my next issue of the Planing Form if you're still involved in that, or send it to me at this address: John Carter, 2173 Dudley Ave., St. Paul MN 55108. Thanks for offering to do this. How much for the video?John Carter john carter, depts of hort sci and plant biol, univ mn, st paul 55108612 624 4966 voice, 612 624 4941 fax, carte004@maroon.tc.umn.edu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 14:32:50 1995 Subject: Re: Shoulder bolts - Video On Fri, 1 Dec 1995 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The shoulder bolt idea was before others came up with using dowelpinswith a bolt on one side and a set screw on the other. If you like I cansenda drawing of what it looks like (need address). This is a good examplehowgetting more involved brings new and better ideas to the craft. And inkeeping an open mind you can always learn something new. As a thought for friday afternoon - After more than a year I finishedthe video that I was working on. I don't mean to advertise here but I havehad many request on when it might be done. The video is a 2 tape set andis 31/2 hours long. Make a big bag of popcorn Wayne What is it about? not all on shoulder bolts I hope. ;)I would be interested in a copy, If you are willing to mail it, I will mail you a check. send me the info. I would like to do a nice bamboo rod some time. Probably a short (6.5 to 7.5 ft. )maybe 3 to 4 weight fairly stiff rod for accurate dry fly casting. My father is a cabinet maker, so I have acces to most of the the tools I would need, maybe someone here could help me out with the cane.Now all I need are some skills. I thought I saw some here somewhere... ;) thanksmauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 14:57:14 1995 Subject: Final forms Do you use stainless or regular steel for the final planning forms? Thanks,Scott. Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 17:03:44 1995 Subject: "V" Block John Long is now offering a precise 60 degree V block installedon a 6" caliper and master block for calibrating the dial indicator.The block allows rapid and accurate measuring of the bamboo strip fromthe rind face to the theoretical apex of the strip without damaging theapex.His price is $75 incl shipping. This is another Bill Waara design. Hisaddress is: John N. Long 16231 Appleby Ln. Northville, MI 48167 313 420-0267 He also has metal splicing blocks for sale also and plans to makethe hollow fluting plane available next year. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 1 21:19:13 1995 Subject: Congrats!! As a thought for friday afternoon - After more than a year I finishedthe video that I was working on. I don't mean to advertise here but I havehad many request on when it might be done. The video is a 2 tape set andis 31/2 hours long. Make a big bag of popcorn Wayne; how are you? Congratulations!! Finally got a new E-mail address, as you can see.Larry Blan from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Dec 2 01:52:09 1995 Subject: Re: Shoulder bolts - Video On Fri, 1 Dec 1995 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote:As a thought for friday afternoon - After more than a year I finishedthe video that I was working on. I don't mean to advertise here but Ihavehad many request on when it might be done. The video is a 2 tape set andis 31/2 hours long. from the distant country of Norway, in the small town of Bergen, we havenosuch privileges as experienced rod building masters or teachers. Iwelcomeyour video with joy. But there is one problem: the video standard. InEurope we use a different techonlogy and only a few and expensive videosets play both systems. Wayne, have you thought about this? Will yourtapesbe produced in both PAL and NTNC? --Terje Tveras from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Dec 2 13:29:19 1995 Subject: VIDEO (the scoop) This all started a year ago October - I had heard several times "If Icould only see it" and pursued the idea - originally I was going to justhavesomeone come in and shoot and edit a video - well that was until I got afewquotes. Next I thought I would just rent some equipment for a few days -until I got the prices of rental. So last November I bought a camera(SVHS)and the needed editing equipment - That was equal to the cost ofseveral fly rods - thinking that I could do the project and have it finished charged by the minute. Anyway, as of Thursday morning at 4:30 (that's A.M.) I have the videofinished. I tried to make it as thorough as the book and so it is 3 1/2 hourslong. I start with a new shipment of bamboo and work through all thestepsup to Lyndi fishing and the "purple plane". The video is broken up into eightsections (I do seven and Matt does one). For our foriegn friends I will beable to get it produced in the europeon format. The price is $50.00 andwillbe available from the same sources as the book or if you like I will acceptorders as well $50.00 postage ppd. Wayne Cattanach15315 Apple AveCasnovia, Mi 49318 from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Dec 3 20:01:09 1995 Subject: DYI - Wooden Body Scraper The following was written for the planing form but I thought that itmight make a good wintertime project for some - I will be sending Mike Bsomeimage file to go with this so watch for them Wood Bodied Scraper There is nothing to compare with the grace, beauty, andfunction of one of Tom Lie - Neilsen's bronze bodied scrapers.Recently on our internet group a fellow from California finallybroke down and bought one leaving his cabinet scraper behindforever. Perhaps the reluctance to try one is the $115.00 cost.Another purchase to justify.Remembering back, I was about to buy a wooden bodied scraperthat I saw in the Garrett - Wade catalog when Tom started producinghis. About two years ago I was reminded of this unit and set out tosee if a person could make their own. Since then I've built a totalof three in varying fashions and they work reasonably well. Thefirst is now owned by Carlos Santos, who helped text edit my book.I fabricated it around the blade that Tom supplies with his scraperwhich is 1 3/8" in width. Since then I have widened the body toaccept the 1 5/8" Hock blade from the Stanley planes I have. Thesecond was donated to the Luis Marden Museum of Bamboo Rod Makingand Flyfishing Antiquities. The third I've kept a tight grip on.Now for the purist of wooden planes tiger stripe maple may notbe the accurate wood to use but I had it so I used it. If anythingit makes the scraper look cute. When finished with the Hock bladethe unit weighs in at about 8 ounces which is light in comparisonto the one pound plus of bronze that i was used to. But it's veryworkable. The adjusting with the blade wedge is a little bitfussier but once you hit that sweet spot it will wisp away .00025"shavings with the best of them.I quess that there are no real bounds for dimensions but theunits I've made are about 5" long 2" high and 2 1/4" wide. Infabricating the scraper there are 5 pieces total. But only 3thicknesses of wood. The core is an exact 1 5/8" which is 1/32"wider than the Hock blade. The sides are 5/16" and the wedge can becut from anything thicker that 1/2".Our local wood store surfaces their wood at 3/4" and 7/8" soI bought a bit of each which cost about $7.00. The core is made bygluing (2) 7/8" thick pieces together and trimming to 1 5/8". Imade the core 2" high X 8" long. For the sides I split a 3/4" thickboard for (2) 2" high X 5" long X 5/16" pieces.The back core piece is cut to length with a 3 degree slope andis about 2 3/4" long. the front core need a shaving relief so it isfirst cut to 60 degrees then a 1/2" deep trough is cut into the 60degree sloped side leaving a 1/4" on each side for wedge seating.Then the angle is recut to 78 degrees so that the new cut and thetrough angle make a sharp point at the bottom face surface. Withthe core blocks cut the sides are then glued on so that the bottomis flat and there is a 7/32" gap between the front and back cores.Any glue squeezed into the wedge area should be removed before it'sdry.When the glue is dry the 'block' is trimmed up to the desiredlength. I profile the 'block' to a more traditional look with aband saw and then round the corners with a router mounted on atable as a shaper.To finish the scraper a wedge is cut to 15 degrees and justwide enough to slip into the slot and long enough to be easilyworked (2 1/4"). With the slot cleaned up you drop the blade intoplace and try the wedge. At first the wedge may extend past thebottom of the scraper. In practice I have found that if the wedgeis trimmed to end up 1/8" inside the body works best.As a finish up the bottom should be sanded on a sheet ofplexiglass and a finish applied. I used a dark wood stain followed Even if you have a bronze bodied scraper this can be anenjoyable project. But if you are still using a cabinet scraper andgrumbling everytime you have a chipping node do yourself a favorand make one. Wayne Cattanach As you can tell from the send times and dates I finally gave in toloading AOL on my home computer - that way I can respond better from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 4 08:17:05 1995 Subject: Some thoughts on forms Looks like the LISTPROC decide to choke on this message fromWayne. Sorry if it's a duplicate for everyone else but me... Mike BiondoRodmakers Listguy=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Dec 3 19:25:50 1995Subject: Some thoughts on forms When making the metal forms I would stick with CRS - it may not be asanexact square as HRS or stainless but for ease of working it can't be beat.The forms that I made are the Garrison differential screw type and theyworkfine - but - it can be a little difficult reassembling them after cleaning.The shoulder bolt idea was to incorporate a dowel pin and bolt all in oneandI've seen several sets of forms built that way. The concept that I thinkmostworkable is that used by Frank Armbruster on his forms and is as follows.The forms are kept in alignment by 1/4" dowel pins and then a bolt ismachined on one side (about 3/8" center to center) and the a set screw ismachined in on the other. The hole for the bolt is drilled through one sideand taped into the other - that way when the bolt is tightened it acts todraw the forms together. The set screw is tapped into just one side of theform and when it is tightened it pushes against the opposite side of theforms and acts to push the forms apart. The drilling anf tapping in makingthis type of forms is a little less complex (it can still be done with adoweling jig) and for cleaning you simply take out the bolts and the formscome apart and reassemble without trying to retime the differentthreading ofthe Garrison forms. *****Note****** I've talked with Mike B and He is going to try to set updownloadable files of drawings and pictures. That way the list will bemorelike an electronic newsletter. Now that I've finished one project I havemany workshops. I hope that throughout the years to come that I can learn alongwith the rest of you. A simple wood working project is to build your own wooden scraper(simular to the one Garret-Wade sells). I am just finishing an article ontheproject - so far I've built three of them and I know of one who has built 5and all work well.But for now I can either sent(mail) or fax drawings as requested Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 5 06:51:01 1995 Subject: nodeless Here are a wannabe rodmaker's questions about how to cut my culm and assemble the segments for nodeless construction. The cut made prior to shipping (between segments 6 and 7) and my cuts made to saw the nodes out of my culm have produced the following segments. Segment Length Number (Inches)1 (bottom) 9 2 10 3 12 4 13.5 5 14 6 5 7 10 8 15.5 9 16 10 16 11 (top) 9 Cattanach taper. The rod tip and butt will be approximately 42 inches long. Allowing just 4 inches of staggering for splices, planed strips up to 46 inches long will be required. Was I wrong to think that this rod is not terribly demanding in its culm requirements? My inclination would be to discard segment 6. Is that a mistake? There is a total length of 58.5 inches in segments 1 through 5. Subtracting 5.25 inches for each of the 4 splices necessary to join them leaves 37.5 inches,not enough to make the butt. Then, for the tip, segments 7 through 11 (total length 66.5 inches minus 21 for splices) should provide strips approximately 41.5 inches long. I assume that I could represent some segments more than once in some strips, but which segments would best be repeated in which strips? Would it be better to use segment 7 and/or 5 in both the tip and butt? The diameter of this culm is approximately 2 inches. Should I be trying for more than 12 longitudinal strips per segment? How could I get a second tip from this culm? Suppose I had wanted an 8 foot rod? If there's a will, there's a way, but I'd like to see the best way before I start splicing. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 5 08:24:45 1995 Subject: Flexcoat on Bamboo I have been getting conflicting opinions onwhether or not epoxy, Flexcoat in particular,is safe to use for guide wrappings on a bamboorod. One guy claims Flexcoat doesn't allow thebamboo to breathe and the bamboo under thewrapping will rot. Another guy laughed at thatnotion. Anybody have any direct experience withusing Flexcoat for guide wrappings on a bamboorod? Darryl Hayashidadnh@chevron.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 5 09:07:27 1995 Subject: Re: Flexcoat on Bamboo At 04:26 PM 12/4/95 PST, you wrote: I have been getting conflicting opinions onwhether or not epoxy, Flexcoat in particular,is safe to use for guide wrappings on a bamboorod. One guy claims Flexcoat doesn't allow thebamboo to breathe and the bamboo under thewrapping will rot. Another guy laughed at thatnotion. Anybody have any direct experience withusing Flexcoat for guide wrappings on a bamboorod? Darryl Hayashidadnh@chevron.com I used Flexcoat on the first few rods I made. With regard to the finishbreathing - I'm not sure but in terms of gas permeability I'd thinkVarathane is close. No rot with either wrap finish for me so far. I thinkthe rot story is a lot of hogwash, frankly. The big problem with Flexcoat was minimizing 'build'. I used flexcoat liteand thinned it further with K&B epoxy thinner - available at modelairplanehobby shops. Cheers,Gord~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Gordon Johnsongord@teleport.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 5 13:18:39 1995 Subject: Flexcoat on Bamboo Darryl, I used Flexcoat on two rods ilong time ago and I had no problems. I cannotimagine bamboo to rot under the wrappings if the bamboo is varnishedbefore thewrap is applied. Frank Neunemann from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 5 17:50:38 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless There is a number of questions to be answered here - but I seeno problem with getting a rod out of this culm. You forget tomention if you have good thickness of power fibers in each section. I will assume you do have good thickness.First problem is you should get 24 strips per section. I willassume that you are going to heat treat the sections prior tosplitting. This will aid in splitting. The butt section should be no problem. Use sections 3 4 and5. Double up on 4 and 5 to get the length you need so the butt willbe 3 - 4 - 4 - 5 - 5 this gives you more than enough length. For the tip section you can easily get one tip and possiblytwo from sections 7 - 11. If you just want one tip then double upusing sections 8 and 9 only. for 8 - 8 - 9 - 9 pattern. otherwiseglue up 7 8 9 10 and 11 and see how long it is and plan from there. I've just finished glueing up strips for a 7' 6" nodeless and had no problem getting two tips - I think your problem came from justsplitting 12 strips vice 24. I find no problem using strips fromthe same section adjacent to each other in a section ... if thepower fiber is good thickness. Next time ask them to cut your culmat the node. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 5 22:23:35 1995 Subject: Scrapers Listmembers- intimidated or lack time/space/motivation/confidence to undertake theproject,you may want to investigate a device made to fit standard (Record,Stanley,etc) planes. It replaces the normal blade and cap iron and uses the normaldepth and lateral adjustment features of the plane. It also uses a builtintilt feature for fine adjustment. Made by Veritas, one supplier is LeeValleyTools of Canada 800-267-8767. Under 0 Can (about 2 US). No connectionwith Lee Valley or Veritas; just info here. Jack Tuckerjart@epix.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 6 09:09:38 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless First problem is you should get 24 strips per section. I willassume that you are going to heat treat the sections prior tosplitting. This will aid in splitting. I have never heard this before. At what point of splitting do you heat treat the sections? It is after you have already split the culm into six strips? Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 6 16:29:24 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless Scott There are certain advantages to going nodeless. One ofthem is when you heat treat your strips. In this case once hecut out those narsty nodes you can heat treat the sections in the oldTappan.Same temp and time. You then split each of the sections seperatelyand then splice into full length strips. Now you can do all yourplaning on heat treated nodeless strips. The blade goes throughthis like soft butter. With nodes you must wait until you get your angles andbind the strips. Does this help ??? Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 08:22:32 1995 Subject: Re: Flexcoat on Bamboo I have had excellent luck ussing Flex Coat on guide wrappings. Finish the rest of the rod with varnish. I have even used color preserver to get the brighter colors to not fade prior to using the Flex Coat. The bamboo rodstood the test of catching 3 + pound Bass without any difficulties.Good Luck P.S. The purist are getting ready to pounce on the key boards now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On Mon, 4 Dec 1995, Hayashida, Darryl - HADN wrote: I have been getting conflicting opinions onwhether or not epoxy, Flexcoat in particular,is safe to use for guide wrappings on a bamboorod. One guy claims Flexcoat doesn't allow thebamboo to breathe and the bamboo under thewrapping will rot. Another guy laughed at thatnotion. Anybody have any direct experience withusing Flexcoat for guide wrappings on a bamboorod? Darryl Hayashidadnh@chevron.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 09:20:24 1995 Subject: Beginner info Dear Folks:I have built several rods from graphite blanks. I want to advanceto building bamboo rods. What is the best way to begin. I live in theSeattle area. Are there individuals who teach on this subject? Take Care Jeff Ward from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 10:16:01 1995 Subject: Excel Glue - Pros and Cons I have just finished (except for the last coats of tung oil),my latest project, a 7' 6" 3 piece, 3-4 wt. with a hollowhandle section. I used Excel glue to assemble the wholething, except the wraps (you'll see why in a minute). Excel glue is a very strong extremely waterproof glue.It has a very long working time, listed as 20 to 30 min.but a lot longer than that if you chill it in a refrigeratorbefore use.It fills in gaps, which is good if the gap is hidden, badin the way it fills in the gap. This glue, as it is hardeningforms bubbles internally, giving it a frothy appearance.Not bad if the space it is filling is not seen, but unsightlyif the gap is seen, such as between cork layers in thehandle, between the handle and reel seat, etc. Also,you have to watch the rod as the glue is hardeningbecause it will seep out from between the joints. Thisdidn't happen when gluing the splines because thepressure from the binding cord, but in assembling thehandle and reel seat I was constantly wiping off dripsas the glue expanded and leaked out of the joints. At first I thought this glue would be great for finishingguide wraps, but as I saw how it frothed up as it dried,I rejected that idea. I do like the idea of if the are any gaps under the handleand reel seat, (shouldn't be if I fitted them perfectly, butyou know how that goes), they are filled by the glue as itdries. I think Excel is better than Tiebond II for gluing splines, andif you can take the time to wipe drips off of your handle andreel seat for the first two hours, then it is good for gluinghandles and reel seats. But other than being a one partglue instead of having to mix it, I don't think it's any betterthan a long setting epoxy. One thing I have been thinking about though, is if I made ahollow rod, and filled the hollow with this glue, as it hardenedand frothed up it would be almost like a foam core, very light,and very strong. on the top surface and makes it very hard to squeeze it out thenext time you use it. Darryl Hayashidadnh@chevron.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 10:52:43 1995 Subject: A question about ovens.... A question about ovens. I was wondering what the pros/cons were to using a hot air oven (like the diagram hotair.pdf)compared to the designs layed out in Wayne'sand Garrisons books? I have already made a hot air oven and I thinkit will work OK, but was wondering if I'mloosing something by going this route. Theonly problem left which I need to work on is the oven only maintains a temp of about 365 Fright now. I think I can get that up a bit withsome minnor modifications. Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 10:58:57 1995 Subject: Hollow rod (was: Excel Glue - Pros and Cons) Darryl writes: I have just finished (except for the last coats of tung oil),my latest project, a 7' 6" 3 piece, 3-4 wt. with a hollowhandle section. I used Excel glue to assemble the wholething, except the wraps (you'll see why in a minute). Darryl, What kind of weight saving did you get by making the hollowsection, and how is the action effected? Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 11:58:32 1995 Subject: Re: A question about ovens.... (and now binders) I recieved a few questions about how I made my oven. I thought I would post some of my answers to get feedback about the method I am using. I also had a questions about binders whichsomeone asked me and I have the same problem. First the binder.... I have not been about the find 6 inch non-spoked pulley wheels.I have looked everywhere I can think of. I have almost cometo the conclusion I will need to make some myself. And then how I made my oven...... I looked at the diagram (hotair.pdf) to get an idea of how to makethe oven, but I did not follow it all that close. The following willmake sense if you have looked at the diagram. I just used two roundduct pipes, one 5" and one 3", both 5 feet tall. I attached the 3" to theinside of the 5" by just one machine screw on the top. I did not rivet themlike the drawing. For a base I put a 5" duct pipe cap on and taped it. My heat gun then sits in the top, between the 5" and 3" pipe andI fill in the gaps with some insulation. I did have to put someinsultation around the outside to get the temp high enough, otherwiseit stayed around 330 F. I think if I shortend the pipes it might gethot enough without the insultation. For temp control I am just usinga candle wax thermometer hung inside the 3" pipe. After a few minutes,the temp should be pretty constant throughout the entire oven I think. Another idea for temp control which I am thinking aobut is using aturkey thermometer. It has a metel probe which you can stick intoany holes you drill in the pipe to check the temp at certain locations, and it changes reading pretty fast. The problem with it is that it is only marked to 195 F. However, when I was playing aroundwith it I found it still worked fine up to 350-400 F, the needle justkeeps going around. I thought I would mark it at 375 F and just use that. I think they are only a couple bucks at the store. Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 12:28:41 1995 Subject: RE: Hollow rod (was: Excel Glue - Pros and Cons) If you take a total distance of the flat to the inside apex as 100percent, I plane off 50 percent. This is total distance, not mass.Weight savings is about 25 percent. I think I could plane off moreif I fill the hollow with the foamed up Excel glue, but if you planeoff too much it becomes too hard to assemble the splines togetherand bind it with your binding cord to glue it. I'm still undecided on whether a hollow rod is worth the trouble.I have a 7ft. 2 piece solid rod for 3 - 4 wt., that casts beautifully.I haven't fished with this new 3 piece, so I can't compare yet. Darryl Hayashidadnh@chevron.com ---------- Darryl, What kind of weight saving did you get by making the hollowsection, and how is the action effected? Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 13:00:54 1995 Subject: RE: faq I remember getting a rod building faq at some point, but don't remember where, and I don't have it saved. It was bamboo stuff though. Does anyone have it, or can tell me where I got it. I think it is at someone's home page. thanks in advance.mauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 13:30:07 1995 Subject: RE: faq Mauro writes... I remember getting a rod building faq at some point, but don't remember where, and I don't have it saved. It was bamboo stuff though. Does anyone have it, or can tell me where I got it. I think it is at someone's home page. thanks in advance. That would be Bruce Conner's FAQ. Check out: http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html Mike BiondoRodmakers Listguy from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 18:41:58 1995 Subject: Re: A question about ovens.... (and now binders) Scott For a pulley - try a common shaft pulley. I got mine atthe local farmers co-op / hardware store. It has a 1/2 bore andI used a hex bolt with partial thread as a shaft and washers as spacers.I put some rubber bands in the v grouve for traction on the drivebelt. It works just fine. For oven temp control - try a old oven thermostat. I gotmine from local appliance store. he was just going to junk them.You can rig it to a plug for your air gun. I use a candy / jellyglass thermometer that the co-op also had. it is glass and goesto 400 degrees. I did a series of checks and "calibrated" the oven thermostat and put marks at the common temps for heat treating, curing, and just keeping strips warm. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 7 19:22:34 1995 Subject: V Block Report Last week I reported John Long had some v blocks that fiton dial calipers. I have now had a good chance to use itand it really does the job. I had a number of old tip andbutt strips to "practice" on. It makes the job of gettingmeasurements a lot easier and I believe - much more accurate. The v block is about 1" square with a V in the middleof the top and two small screws for "clamping" it on the dial caliper. from the side it is about 1/2" thick and lookslike an "H" the dial caliper prongs fit in the slots in the "H"with the bottom being "clamped". The strip is then held in the V front and back ofwhere you want to measure by the top of the "H". I measured a number of strips from .036 to .175 a number of times. I alwaysgot the same measurement quickly. This is a definite improvementover using a dial caliper alone. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 8 02:38:58 1995 Subject: New stuff on the web page I have just added a link to my web page that explains how to make woodenplaning forms. There have been a lot of questions about how this is done,and this should answer all of them. Take a look at http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/planeform.html Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 8 07:06:29 1995 Subject: Idea Time In looking ahead I was wondering if any of the group might have any ideasforTTBBQ II - I hopefully will be able to present a report on rod design - perhaps a panel discussion on how different rod designs are use to fishdifferent fishing styles and waters. Now is the time to plan. In talkingwithRon he thinks that is should be more loose - I thought that some of uswere'loose' last time Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 8 10:42:02 1995 Subject: Wooden form making is updated! (already!) I had to make a couple of minor corrections in the wooden form file.Nothing serious, just a clarification. Thanks to Mike Biondo for pointingout what could have been a confusing statement. If you have downloaded the flie, please do so again so you will have thebenefit of the new, improved instructions. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 8 15:14:30 1995 Subject: Re: Wooden form making is updated! (already!) I screwed up. More corrections needed to be made in the formbuildingpage./A minor, but rather important word got misused. It's fixed now. SO... If you want to build the forms according to the instructions, PLEASEdownload the instructions again. Sorry for the errors, I have no idea why the word finder didn't pick up oneinstance of the word I was changing the first time. THIS TIME FOR SURE! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 8 22:03:43 1995 Subject: Lathe Questions Here is a pretty stupid question, but I can not figure it out. I was looking at lathes today when I was in a woodworking store and I do not understand how you use one with rodbuilding.First, I will say that I have no experience with lathes at all. Itis limited to watching someone turn a candle holder and lookingat them today. When you are cutting the section of the rod down for a ferrule,how is it set up in the lathe? I was confussed looking in the store since most of the lathes (all in fact) had a max center tocenter length of 36". I did not understand how you would fit in a longer rod section. However, reading the Garrison book (about 6 times in fact)tonight, he made it sound like the rod could go through thetailstock (I don't know if that is the right term?). A drawingof what I think a lathe is: ------------- --- --------- ---- --------- --- ------------------ -----======================================^ ^ ^| | |Motor Spindle, 3 Jaw chuck Tailstock I hope this formats OK for you. The way I see one end of the rod section has to be in the 3-Jaw chuck on the spindle drivingthe rotation. Thus, it has to be the far end (right on my picture)which is being cut down to the correct size. In the garrison bookthere are quite a few picture, but I am unable to figure out how the rod in held in the lathe. He shows a drill type chuck in a lot of photos with the end he is cutting down sticking out about1-2 inches. Where is this 'drill type' chuck located on the lathe?The only place I can see is it is located on the tailstock facing away from the main lathe (right on my picture). Does this meanthat the rod is in both the 3-Jaw chuck on the motor housing andin the 'drill type' chuck on the tailstock? And also, he shows a holder for the loose end of the rod section to keep it from moving around and getting damaged. What partof the rod section do you work on if one end is in the 3-Jaw chuckand the other in some type of holder? Thanks in advance for enlightening the 'lathe illiterate' . Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 8 23:21:50 1995 Subject: Re: Lathe Questions - I figured it out I did not understand that there was a 'bore-through' onlathes. It makes sence now, and I can understand thephotos in the Garrison book. Sorry for the BW Here is a pretty stupid question, but I can not figure it out. I was looking at lathes today when I was in a woodworking store and I do not understand how you use one with rodbuilding.First, I will say that I have no experience with lathes at all. Itis limited to watching someone turn a candle holder and lookingat them today. When you are cutting the section of the rod down for a ferrule,how is it set up in the lathe? I was confussed looking in the store since most of the lathes (all in fact) had a max center tocenter length of 36". I did not understand how you would fit in a longer rod section. However, reading the Garrison book (about 6 times in fact)tonight, he made it sound like the rod could go through thetailstock (I don't know if that is the right term?). A drawingof what I think a lathe is: ------------- --- --------- ---- --------- --- ------------------ -----======================================^ ^ ^| | |Motor Spindle, 3 Jaw chuck Tailstock I hope this formats OK for you. The way I see one end of the rod section has to be in the 3-Jaw chuck on the spindle drivingthe rotation. Thus, it has to be the far end (right on my picture)which is being cut down to the correct size. In the garrison bookthere are quite a few picture, but I am unable to figure out how the rod in held in the lathe. He shows a drill type chuck in a lot of photos with the end he is cutting down sticking out about1-2 inches. Where is this 'drill type' chuck located on the lathe?The only place I can see is it is located on the tailstock facing away from the main lathe (right on my picture). Does this meanthat the rod is in both the 3-Jaw chuck on the motor housing andin the 'drill type' chuck on the tailstock? And also, he shows a holder for the loose end of the rod section to keep it from moving around and getting damaged. What partof the rod section do you work on if one end is in the 3-Jaw chuckand the other in some type of holder? Thanks in advance for enlightening the 'lathe illiterate' . Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net Thanks,Scott AllredSt. Louis, MOsallred@ibm.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Dec 10 12:30:20 1995 Subject: Lathes and operation thereof -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- To Scott et al: The spindle of a lathe is the hollow pipe/tube between the bearingsthat you are referring to. I would think twice before I used a threejaw metal working chuck at the speeds that a wood lathe makes. Usually,full size metal lathes operate at much slower speeds. There are,however numerous wood lathe chucks that are meant to be used at woodworking speeds. The extra "holder" to which you refer is called a steady rest and theone in the Garrison/Carmichael book is rather primitive. I suggest athree wheel arrangement such as is available from Clemens. This needsto be mounted on some sort of height-adjustable tripod such as a musicstand. All this would be quite easy to build. Lastly, I would be remiss if I did not warn you about the dangersattempting to reduce the ferrule station diameter with a tool. Indeed,it can be done, but often with poor results because of excessive "pushover" from the pressure of the tool on the unsupported cane. There areseveral methods but the best I have arrived at is to file the corners (carefully now!) and then finish the last 10 or 15 milles with sandpaper(on a block) in the lathe a` la Garrison. Further, for your information, Jacobs still makes chucks -drill type,with hollow internal that can be mounted on a "metal" lathe. Be advisedthat they are not cheap. All that being said I'm not so sure that theyare any great advantage in rod making. Much more useful would be a goodset of collets and a closer. Good luck,John Zimny from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 11 09:54:34 1995 Subject: nodeless I just bought the wood to make my first form.I asked for hard maple, and they looked at me funny and said :"we only have one kinda maple"I hope it'll work OK.It looks nice, and the grain is fairly even and no dents or knots. There seems to be little info on nodeless rods in the faq.I looked at the picture of the rig to plane the sections for the slice,but I would like someone to explain to me exactly how to join the sections. Are they simply glued when the whole rod gets glued?what does "splice the sections together" mean?I am trying to get wayne's book, but haven't yet.thanks in advance.mauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 11 10:47:49 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless I just bought the wood to make my first form.I asked for hard maple, and they looked at me funny and said :"we only have one kinda maple"I hope it'll work OK.It looks nice, and the grain is fairly even and no dents or knots. It should be fine. It probably is hard maple in any case. There seems to be little info on nodeless rods in the faq.I looked at the picture of the rig to plane the sections for the slice,but I would like someone to explain to me exactly how to join thesections. Are they simply glued when the whole rod gets glued?what does "splice the sections together" mean?I am trying to get wayne's book, but haven't yet.thanks in advance.mauro You glue the sections together into long strips and treat them just as youwould strips you had split from the culm. Maybe I'll put up a picture onthe web page. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 11 13:40:10 1995 Subject: not shoulder bolts, not axle bolts, but... I signed up to this list a short time ago and so far I've learned quite a bit. I haven't started building my first bamboo rod yet (have built a couple of graphites) -- haven't even gotten around to building the forms or other paraphernalia yet... just been studying and devising a plan of attack. I have an idea for adjusting forms that would be simpler to both make and operate than both the axle bolt & set screw mechanism and Garrison's shoulder bolt mechanism. I'm wondering, since I'm relatively new here, whether this has been tried and rejected, or have I stumbled on something new. While contemplating building handscew-type clamps, I thought, why notuse the same principle--a piece of rod with opposing threads cut on each half--to build a form-adjustment mechanism. Use studs (avalilable atauto parts stores) for the adjustment screws. These have left-hand threads on one half, and right-hand threads on the other half. Cut a slot in one end so you can turn it with a standard screwdriver. Drill holes of the proper diameter through both halves of the form. Tap the holes in one half of the form with a left-hand tap; tap the holes in the other with a right-hand tap.Start the studs into one half of the form-about 1 turn, then lay the other half of the form on top of the studs and gradually turn each stud, working your way up & down the form until the form is closed up. I've left out a few minor details for the sake of brevity, but you get the gist. This seems so simple. Too simple, in fact--I must be overlooking something. Please note that I am NOT suggesting anyone try this. I just wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone else has tried it, so that they can convince me why I should or shouldn't try it. I hope I haven't wasted too much of your time in the process. Anyway, I also have an Idea for cutting the grooves in the forms, but I'll save that for another time. -chuck oey(pardon the identity crisis--still no personal e-mail here at work)_____________________________________________________________________Professional Publications, Inc. profpubl@crl.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 11 14:18:31 1995 Subject: Re: not shoulder bolts, not axle bolts, but... On Mon, 11 Dec 1995, Professional Publications, Inc. wrote: I signed up to this list a short time ago and so far I've learned quite a bit. I haven't started building my first bamboo rod yet (have built a couple of graphites) -- haven't even gotten around to building the forms or other paraphernalia yet... just been studying and devising a plan of attack. I have an idea for adjusting forms that would be simpler to both makeand operate than both the axle bolt & set screw mechanism and Garrison's shoulder bolt mechanism. I'm wondering, since I'm relatively new here, whether this has been tried and rejected, or have I stumbled onsomething new. While contemplating building handscew-type clamps, I thought, why notuse the same principle--a piece of rod with opposing threads cut on each half--to build a form-adjustment mechanism. Use studs (avalilable atauto parts stores) for the adjustment screws. These have left-hand threadson one half, and right-hand threads on the other half. Cut a slot in one end so you can turn it with a standard screwdriver. Drill holes of the proper diameter through both halves of the form. Tap the holes in one half of the form with a left-hand tap; tap the holes in the other with a right-handtap.Start the studs into one half of the form-about 1 turn, then lay the other half of the form on top of the studs and gradually turn each stud, working your way up & down the form until the form is closed up. I've left out a few minor details for the sake of brevity, but you get the gist. This seems so simple. Too simple, in fact--I must be overlooking something. Please note that I am NOT suggesting anyone try this. I just wanted to throw this out there to see if anyone else has tried it, so that they can convince me why I should or shouldn't try it. I hope I haven't wasted too much of your time in the process. Anyway, I also have an Idea for cutting the grooves in the forms, but I'll save that for another time. -chuck oey(pardon the identity crisis--still no personal e-mail here at work) _____________________________________________________________________Professional Publications, Inc. profpubl@crl.com If I understood you're idea right (maybe not!):The way I see it, if you screw into one half of the form you are unscrewing the other half of the form. How do you adjust?Why is it easier to have a set of right hand and a set of left hand threads, than two sets of right hand threads?Seems like the same work to me. If I misunderstood you're idea please clarify.mauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 11 14:54:09 1995 Subject: Re: not shoulder bolts, not axle bolts, but... Use studs (avalilable at auto parts stores) for the adjustment screws. These have left-hand threadson one half, and right-hand threads on the other half. Cut a slot in one end so you can turn it with a standard screwdriver. Drill holes of theproper diameter through both halves of the form. Tap the holes in one half ofthe form with a left-hand tap; tap the holes in the other with a right-handtap.Start the studs into one half of the form-about 1 turn, then lay the other half of the form on top of the studs and gradually turn each stud, working your way up & down the form until the form is closed up. If I understood you're idea right (maybe not!):The way I see it, if you screw into one half of the form you are unscrewing the other half of the form. How do you adjust?Why is it easier to have a set of right hand and a set of left hand threads, than two sets of right hand threads?Seems like the same work to me. If I misunderstood you're idea please clarify.mauro OK... here's a clarification. The studs (in the form) would look like this: ________ _________| \ / || | | || | | | |::::\\\\\\//////:::::| Subject: Re: not shoulder bolts, not axle bolts, but... I'm about to jump on the wagon and fabricate a set of wooden forms,and think the idea of using studs (with L and R hand threads) hassome merit. At least in theory, adjustment would be quicker andmuch simpler. But finding the right studs might be very difficult. A quick look in an MSC supply catalog found the finest threads to be 1/4-20. I'm not sure whether this would be fine enough, sinceone turn of the stud would move the form apart (or together) 1/10(100 thou) inch. If available, a 1/4-32 stud would move the form 1/16 (62.5 thou) inch per turn. Is this degree of adjustment acceptable? Is my reasoning sound? LOU from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 11 17:03:47 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless Bruce / Mauro First sorry about the blank message but if I hit the magic buttontwice - it is no stopping it. Garrison's book has the best info on making splices. I've sent someinfo to Ron at the Planing Form so there may be more forthcoming. I willmake copies and send it to Bruce if you desire it for FAQ. But here's a little info on glueing up for nodeless. The splicing block in garrison is good for starters. Make all splices for a strip with the enamel facing the samedirection. For a section make 3 strips with left hand splices and 3 with righthand. I have extra copies of my article on making good splices if you needit. For glueing up you can use garrison's string wrap method or use 1"spring Clamps. I use 3 clamps per splice. I usually make all the splices fora strip and glue the strip up at the same time. after the strip is dried you can dress the splices with your planeprior to finding your 1st angle. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 11 17:48:16 1995 Subject: Wayne's Video Title? Maybe I missed it, but I don't know the title of thevideo. I tried to order it, but when the salespersonasked me the title, I drew a blank. Can anyonehelp me out?ThanksDarryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 12 04:46:05 1995 Subject: Re: not shoulder bolts, not axle bolts, but... I'm about to jump on the wagon and fabricate a set of wooden forms,and think the idea of using studs (with L and R hand threads) hassome merit. At least in theory, adjustment would be quicker andmuch simpler. But finding the right studs might be very difficult. A quick look in an MSC supply catalog found the finest threads tobe 1/4-20. I'm not sure whether this would be fine enough, sinceone turn of the stud would move the form apart (or together) 1/10(100 thou) inch. If available, a 1/4-32 stud would move the form1/16 (62.5 thou) inch per turn. Is this degree of adjustmentacceptable? Is my reasoning sound? LOU While I think the idea of the studs is a good one, it leaves out onecritical factor which makes the push-pull system work very well in thelonghaul. Using a stud system, there would be no way to take up any slop onthe threads and the forms would probably get loose after a while as thethreads loosen up. The push pull takes up slack automagically. Just a consideration (and the push-pull is easy to build in reality) Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 12 05:11:52 1995 Subject: Adjusting bolt precision... I've read the shoulder bolt discussion and have wondered about theprecisionobtained by left/right & right/right threads. If you use left/right threading - like a stud - you would get accuracy ofhalf the thread pitch. If the stud were threaded 32 TPI, one revolutionwould move EACH HALF 1/32" - a difference of 1/16" per revolution(.0625").This seems a bit too course to me. Garrison/Carmichael talked about differential screws threaded 1/4"x20 &5/16x24. The movement between the halves would be the differencebetween1/20" (.050") & 1/24"(.0417"). I have no idea what this is fractionally -but it's about .0083". This is value is the change made in the length ofthe SIDE with one revolution. The difference one revolution makes in theheight of your triangle is then, I believe, about .007". I think my calculations are close and that the stud idea is pretty muchruled out by the inaccuracy inherent in left/right thread use. Cheers,Gord~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Gordon Johnson gord@teleport.com Portland, OR from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 12 05:18:59 1995 Subject: Re: not shoulder bolts, not axle bolts, but... It seems to me that you might have a hard time simply installing thesescrews.Ican see getting the first one in but after that I am at a total loss. Maybe Iamjust missing something here. Also if these screws are at all tight, which Iwould think that they must be, it would probably be really hard to operatethemwith a slotted screw driver. I know that I really crank on my bolt heads onmyform using a 1/2 inch wrench.Martin Jensen from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 12 05:30:30 1995 Subject: Montgue Reel Seet I have a friend that just purchased a Montague fly rod that is missing theformed butt cap. The rest of the reel seat is intact and in good shape. Anyhelp in finding this part would be appreciated. The rod has no markings on it, it has red wraps with intermediate wrapsthroughout. The reel seat appears to be nickel plated brass and has"MONTAGUE" engraved where the reel would go. The reel seat also has reelfootguides. Any help in finding this part would be appreciated. Contact me at JonRC@aol.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 12 08:35:50 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless ChrisC, BruceC, and all you other nodeless fans out there... With all this talk lately about nodeless construction, I waswondering if there is any appreciatible difference in the actionof a nodeless rod vs. one with nodes intact, given the same design? I got thinking about all the glue joints, and wondered if the gluehad the effect of stiffening the spline. Mike BiondoRodmakers Listguy from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 12 09:16:14 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless From: owner-rodmakers Subject: Re: nodelessDate: Tuesday, December 12, 1995 8:29AM ChrisC, BruceC, and all you other nodeless fans out there... With all this talk lately about nodeless construction, I waswondering if there is any appreciatible difference in the actionof a nodeless rod vs. one with nodes intact, given the same design? I got thinking about all the glue joints, and wondered if the gluehad the effect of stiffening the spline. Mike BiondoRodmakers Listguy I haven't made an entire rod nodeless yet, but sinceI like to experiment ( I actually had the job title ofscientist in a previous job), I took two strips from the sameculm, from right next to each other, on one I cut the nodes outspliced it. To see if it made any difference I clamped the endsof each one and hung a small weight on the free end of both.The one with the nodes left in, I cut down to the same lengthas the nodeless one. The spliced one didn't deflect as much, so it must be stiffer.I didn't do any heat treating on the strips, but I think that everythingelse being equal the spliced strip would be stiffer. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 12 09:16:14 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless From: owner-rodmakers Subject: Re: nodelessDate: Tuesday, December 12, 1995 8:29AM ChrisC, BruceC, and all you other nodeless fans out there... With all this talk lately about nodeless construction, I waswondering if there is any appreciatible difference in the actionof a nodeless rod vs. one with nodes intact, given the same design? I got thinking about all the glue joints, and wondered if the gluehad the effect of stiffening the spline. Mike BiondoRodmakers Listguy I haven't made an entire rod nodeless yet, but sinceI like to experiment ( I actually had the job title ofscientist in a previous job), I took two strips from the sameculm, from right next to each other, on one I cut the nodes outspliced it. To see if it made any difference I clamped the endsof each one and hung a small weight on the free end of both.The one with the nodes left in, I cut down to the same lengthas the nodeless one. The spliced one didn't deflect as much, so it must be stiffer.I didn't do any heat treating on the strips, but I think that everythingelse being equal the spliced strip would be stiffer. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 12 16:57:40 1995 Subject: Event Update I was recently sent an e-mail asking what The Trout Bum BBQ was - Thatbrought to mind that the list has grown quite a bit since last June andsomemay not know. For several years The Planing Form sponsored a gettogether forbamboo rod makers and the event was held in PA. This last year both Ronand Ihad schedules so that the trip to PA was out so we decided to sponser thegathering here in our home state of MI. There were about 45 who attendedthefestivities. Because we knew the area we were able to help with fishingandto top off the two day event the rod makers and a group from compu -servehad a pig roast on saturday night (along with a round of sporting flies).Well apparently everyone had a good enough time that we plan on doing itagain this next year (June 21 & 22) in Grayrock (aka Grayling, MI). Also coming up are several fly fishing only shows. The first is onJanuary 6 in Chicago, IL (the windy city) followed by the CollegePark,MD(Washington DC) the 13th, the Boston, MA the 20th, Somerset, NJthe27th, the Flint, MI Feb 4th, Southfield, MI March 18 and back to Chicago the25th. There will be an award for those who attend them all. Wayne Cattanach(a cold) Casnovia, MI from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 12 17:58:41 1995 Subject: Nodeless Action Mike What ya mean with all those splices - I say what about all thosenodes???? There is the crust of the question. Really not that manysplices per strip 3 for most tips 4 max. So, what is the result you ask! I find that a nodeless rod is usually characterized as being smoother and powerful. I have been working on developing a rod forfishingthe small freestone mountain streams for native brook trout. I had tohavea rod that could cast short. Going to nodeless construction gave me a rodthat cast from 0 - 35 feet! I could not get the same results with nodes.The only other rod I've found that cast as well was a 7' one piece nodelessrod built by Jon Parker (2Wt). Sooooo, let the debate begin Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 13 05:38:34 1995 Subject: Fwd: Wayne's Book Looks like the LISTPROC coughed up another post. I'm forwardingthis to the list, as it looks like it just made it to the errorsfolder. Sorry Hans... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 11:46:49 +0100From: "Kohl, J.W.E." Subject: Wayne's Book I'm looking for wayne's book here in Europe , but can't find it.Could anyone give me a tip or the specificationsexact name, publisher, and esp. ISBN number? thanksHansNetherlands from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 13 09:39:22 1995 Subject: Why fish with Bamboo Last May I posed the question to this list on which was better,bamboo or graphite. I had never fished with a cane rod sincemost new bamboo rods were out of my reach, and no way canyou convince a cane rod owner to lend you his. As I now know,this is a very smart thing for cane rod owners to do. It is true thata cane rod melds itself to an individual. It will soften in certainplaces, flexing more or less along it's length, adapting to it'sowner's casting style. If someone else borrows it, when it isreturned it will feel like a different rod. But, back to why I originally wrote to the list. I was quitewilling to admit that graphite is better than split cane,even though I have a lot invested in making split cane rods.Now that I have a half of a year fishing with a cane rod, Ifind I much prefer cane than graphite. I have a difficult timeexplaining why, and even though in certain conditions I willbreak out my Sage RPL (long casts on lakes, big rivers,etc.), I will fish with my split bamboo rod a good majorityof the time. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 13 10:02:59 1995 Subject: Re: Why fish with Bamboo On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Hayashida, Darryl - HADN wrote: Last May I posed the question to this list on which was better,bamboo or graphite. I had never fished with a cane rod sincemost new bamboo rods were out of my reach, and no way canyou convince a cane rod owner to lend you his. As I now know,this is a very smart thing for cane rod owners to do. It is true thata cane rod melds itself to an individual. It will soften in certainplaces, flexing more or less along it's length, adapting to it'sowner's casting style. If someone else borrows it, when it isreturned it will feel like a different rod. But, back to why I originally wrote to the list. I was quitewilling to admit that graphite is better than split cane,even though I have a lot invested in making split cane rods.Now that I have a half of a year fishing with a cane rod, Ifind I much prefer cane than graphite. I have a difficult timeexplaining why, and even though in certain conditions I willbreak out my Sage RPL (long casts on lakes, big rivers,etc.), I will fish with my split bamboo rod a good majorityof the time. Darryl Hayashida Hey Darryl.I have only cast a bamboo rod on about 10 different occasions. I have a few graphite rods of various lengths, and weights. Some I wrappedmyself.I learned to cast with a cheapy fiberglass 8 weight.Why would I like to have a bamboo rod?There are a few reasons, and fishing is not one of them, since I haven't fished with one yet, and would not know the pros and cons. I like the idea of having built a rod, from begining to end with my own hands. Split the bamboo to wraping the guides. This would be worthless however if I could not fish with it. I intend to fish any rod I build, and fish with it often. I want my "money's" worth out of it.Which brings me to another point; the price of any high quality graphiterod regardless of who finishes it, me or the factory, makes me think long and hard before I will buy a rod. A sage goes for ~$400 cdn. around here. What are they crazy? Its a good rod you get for that price, but I just couldn't afford it.When you buy a graphite rod, you buy what they give you. With a bamboorodI make what I want. I can experiment all I want with tappers for a relitively low price. The time doesn't count, because we all need to do something different once in a while. Instead of watching TV, go plane some splines. I like to learn as much as I can. I don't learn anything if I buy a blank.Why do flyfishermen tie their own flies? They get the fly they want.Same for bamboo I guess. just my $.02 worth.mauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 13 11:45:57 1995 Subject: Question from a Lurker Good day, everybody. This is my first post to this list (I think), thoughI've been reading it since its inception. I've gained a lot from thelearned discussions in this fine forum! Thanks! I am a reasonably competent flyfisher & flytyer, and I've got an adequateselection of nice graphite rods. However, I *really* want a cane rod, but Ihaven't gotten up the guts to put down the money. I was browsing acatalogthis week from Smallman's in Alberta, and they list Partridge cane blanks to"assemble" a rod from components, I don't have the time or the shop tostart from scratch as some of you do... Fishing for answers :-) + Joel Dunn+ Manager, Communications - UNC-Chapel Hill ADP+ Email: joel_dunn@unc.edu Voice: 919-966-5837 FAX: 919-962-0900+ Finger longlegs@bullhead.adp.unc.edu for PGP Public Key+ http://www.adp.unc.edu/~longlegs/longlegs.html_,,,\|/,-------------------------- ------------------------(_ /|\ from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 13 13:27:27 1995 Subject: Question from a Lurker Joel, I built my first bamboo flyrods from blanks,too. Nothing wrong with that.Regarding Partridge blanks I have to say that they are not bad and goodenoughmaterial to get started. You will get a nice rod to fish with and to wetyourappetite for more. After getting addicted you will find out that a self built blank isdefinitelybetter, not just because it is self made. The blanks a company likePartridgesells are taken from the production, because they don't want them fortheir ownrods because of minor flaws. I built about 8 rod from blanks like that and I had fun with them. Just giveita try and $260 for a bamboo blank is not too much. Frank from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 14 08:13:24 1995 Subject: Re: Question from a Lurker Another bounced message...sorry! Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=Date: Wed, 13 Dec 95 14:36 CDTFrom: Subject: Question from a Lurker Joel,I haven't built my first fly rod yet but I read am reading andresearching.The price I got for a Partridge was $460.00 with two tips. A little toorich for me. I think it was from Anglers Workshop? from that smallsample $260.00 looks pretty good.There is a Page http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm that has a range ofusedand collectable, bamboo, glass and Carbon rods for sale. THereis a valueguide and a rod restoration marketplace that list cane rods that needwork. There is also a listing for Bamboo rod makers. I have only lookednever bought. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 14 09:10:23 1995 Subject: Re: Question from a Lurker I guess the LISTPROC is having a really bad day! Yet anotherbounced message. Sorry Richard... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Richard Nootebos/UB Networks Date: 14 Dec 95 16:17:49 EDTSubject: Re: Question from a Lurker Joel,I haven't built my first fly rod yet but I read am reading andresearching.The price I got for a Partridge was $460.00 with two tips. A little toorich for me. I think it was from Anglers Workshop? from that smallsample $260.00 looks pretty good.There is a Page http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm that has a range ofusedand collectable, bamboo, glass and Carbon rods for sale. THereis a valueguide and a rod restoration marketplace that list cane rods that needwork. There is also a listing for Bamboo rod makers. I have only lookednever bought. I did actually buy a South Bend #29 from Centennial Classic Sales (onGORP). It is in good condition and fishes really well. I payed $200 for the rod (onlyone tip included) plus the shipping etc. to Belgium. I found that this rod is actually easier to cast than a graphite rodbecause you can "feel" the loading of the rod when the line is completelystretched behind you. And now I am trying to build up the knowledge to make my"own" bamboo rod when I have time (yes for some people time is the problem,not money). Regards, RichardThe Flyfishing Dutchman from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 14 09:46:37 1995 Subject: Rod finish Some finish questions:What is the finish of choise for dipping?Dip before wrapping guides or after?Thanks!!!back to lurker.Tom Ausfeld (TOM@SP1.dhmc.dartmouth.edu)Newbury, Vermont from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 14 10:54:26 1995 Subject: RE: Rod finish From: owner-rodmakers Subject: Rod finishDate: Thursday, December 14, 1995 11:40AM Some finish questions:What is the finish of choise for dipping?Dip before wrapping guides or after?Thanks!!!back to lurker.Tom Ausfeld (TOM@SP1.dhmc.dartmouth.edu)Newbury, Vermont Having spent a lot of time, effort and thought on this verysubject in the last two weeks, here are my conclusions.If any of you on the list disagree with me, feel free tosay so. The traditional finish has been Tung oil. This is the stuffthat is used when the finish is described as a hand rubbedoil finish, although Danish oil could also be used, try to avoidthis because Danish oil isn't as waterproof as Tung oil. The next traditional finish is Marine Spar Varnish, and latelya lot of bamboo rod builders have been using the newPolyurethanes. Advantages and disadvantages to each are:Tung oil can dry out and lose its waterproofing ability, but itis readily replenished by rubbing on a few coats. Scratchesare readily fixed just by rubbing the oil over the scratch. It alsodoesn't require a dipping tube setup.Marine Spar varnish can go into meltdown if you happento leave it exposed to the sun in your car, or other highheat sources. It runs, gets gummy and sticks to everythingit comes into contact with, like the rod sock, or cements thetip section to the handle section if they were stored next toeach other, sticks to the car seat, etc. On the other hand,it can be repaired easily if you should scratch or chip it.Just dab new varnish over the ding and buff it out.Polyurethane is a very hard, very durable, long lasting finishit doesn't dry out, doesn't go into meltdown, and is very hardto scratch or chip. But, if you should scratch it, it is very hard torepair. You can dab fresh polyur on the scratch or chip, but itdoesn't buff out very nicely. You end up with a lumpy, wavysurface. I would try to determine what kind of fisherman the person usingthe rod is. If the guy only fishes a few times a year and stores therod away most of the year, put a polyur finish on it. If the rod isgoing to be used a lot, or the person using the rod will be moreconscientious in caring for the rod, use a tung oil or marine sparvarnish. I prefer tung oil for my own rod, but the rod I made for myDad, who fishes once or twice a year, I put polyurethane on. Usually if you are going to dip finish the rod, wrap the guides on first.But, the choice is yours. There are no great disadvantages towrapping on your guides over the finish, except most things youwill use to finish the wraps don't stick very well to tung oil. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 14 11:12:33 1995 Subject: Hinges & Ferrules I have seen references to hinges in rod tapers on this list and thoughtthe concept was from Wayne; however, having just read Wayne's book Ifoundno reference to hinges. What are hinges and where can I find a referencethat describes there theory and application? Does anyone have a list of ferrule weights for different sizes? thanksDavid Hoodhood@dilbert.fc.hp.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 14 13:32:22 1995 Subject: Hans - The Netherlands This may sound odd but I don't know all the places that sell my book"Handcrafting Bamboo Fly Rods" But about two years ago a fellowcountryman ofyours took the time to translate my book to Dutch and I gave himpermissionto have the KOK company publish it so you have two options. Because Iselfproduced the book I never applied for a ISBN # but I'm sure thatsomewhereyou should be able to find one. Wayne Cattanach from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 14 17:30:09 1995 Subject: RE: Rod finish Darryl, except most things that you will use to finish the wraps don't stick wellto tung oil. What guide wrap finish have you found to be most compatible with tungoil? Johnny from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 14 17:43:02 1995 Subject: RE: Rod finish From: owner-rodmakers Subject: RE: Rod finishDate: Friday, December 14, 1900 11:53PM Darryl, except most things that you will use to finish the wraps don't stick wellto tung oil. What guide wrap finish have you found to be most compatible with tungoil? Johnny Just straight polyurethane varnish. Use several layers if you wanta buildup. Don't try to get one thick coat like you do with flexcoat. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 18 11:54:06 1995 Subject: Somewhat related Okay, cane rod makers, a question you've doubtless been asked many times:How do you weight your reels to balance your rods? Most of my reels are Pfleuger Medalist (made in USA) and they have access holes for pouring in birdshot; but I've got a new reel (alright, I confess, its an old hard-rubber, NS, non-raised pillar 60 yard type) which should handle a 4DTF with perhaps 25 yds of backing. Any suggestions onweights? Has anyone had any luck in getting a decent balance with lead stripswrapped around the arbor; (tho' I'd like to find some better way)? What do other list members do for that elusive balance? Reedrcurry@jlc.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Mon Dec 18 17:03:40 1995 Subject: Re: Somewhat related Curry, I have to say that being fairly new to building and fishing bamboo rods(3&1/2done) that I haven't done anything about the balance question. My first rod-a7wt, I am fishing with a 6wt line as that is the heaviest that I own at thistime. My other two rods are a 5wt and a 5&1/2 wt and while the reel istechnically too light for the rod, there is not a noticable problem withfishingit. The 7wt. always felt like it needed abit more line and a bit more reel.Martin from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 04:57:02 1995 Subject: 60 deg lathe tool I recently went to a woodworkers's supply store.(Lee Valley in toronto canada). It is a very well stocked place, with almost any tool you would want, but of course not the 60 degree lathe tool I need to make the V in my wooden forms! Is there a specific name have a part number and manufacuter name for a tool that I could use? I will make the scraper the way that is shown on Bruce's page.Thanks in advance.mauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 05:26:47 1995 Subject: Re: 60 deg lathe tool Does anyone have a part number and manufacuter name for a tool that I could use? I will make the scraper the way that is shown on Bruce's page.Thanks in advance.mauro Mauro,I was thrown off at first too, but this is a common tool. It's a thread- cutting tool that mounts in a metal lathe. They're very common, only cost $3-5, and if you ask your local machinist he'll probably give you a used one free.John Carter from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 06:42:08 1995 Subject: Somewhat related Reed, Okay, cane rod makers, a question you've doubtless been asked manytimes:How do you weight your reels to balance your rods? I fish bamboo rods for quite some time, but it never came to my mind toaddweight just to balance something. I never found it necessary to do that. Frank from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 08:21:24 1995 Subject: Re: 60 deg lathe tool Mauro There is two ways to skin the cat when making wooden forms. Icome from the wood working side of the fence rather than our metal workingcousins.The alternative I used to make my wooden forms is to cut the angles on myhandy dandy tilting arbor table saw - and if you want to clean up the cutyou can do so on a jointer with a tilting fence which you can set with an angle gauge. I also know an old timer who does it all with a jig and handplane. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 09:40:05 1995 Subject: Reel Balance I picked up my first fly rod in 1991, and really don't recall tryingto find a particular balance with a reel. Since that time, I'veaccumulated several cane rods, the biggest being a 8 1/2 ft. Winston4 1/2 oz. and the smallest a 6 1/2 ft. Lee Wulff Midge. I fish bothrods, and have fit reels to them according to the size/diameter andweight. Perhaps by chance or by luck the choices have worked out tomy satisfaction. I believe the best rod/reel balance is achieved while fishing, when casting the rod with a certain amount of line beyond the tip that loads the rod to your liking. The typical cane rod being a bit heavier and slower in action, I guess a heavier reel would also seem appropriate. I usually fit a Hardy 3 3/8" St.George to the Winston. Good luck, LOU from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 09:46:55 1995 Subject: Re: 60 deg lathe tool Chris-- I automatically thought of the tablesaw, too,when pondering how best to make my planingforms. But how do you adjust the taper closelyenough? Any way I think of requires either anextremely long taper jig a lot more precise thanit's likely to be or a fence extension roughlyas long as my shop. More likely both. I'd sooneruse the 60-degree scratchstock or hand-plane itthan go with any of my ideas. Owen from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 10:10:52 1995 Subject: Re: Reel Balance With all this talk about balance, I got wondering how do youactually go about checking the balance of a rod. I checkedthrough the books I had, and the only reference I found wasin _The Angler's Workshop_ by Lambuth. In that, he suggests that a rod is in balance if the centerpointof the grip is exactly halfway between the center of gravity ofrod, and a point in line with the spindle of the reel. The COGbeing measured with the line completely wound on the reel, and the reel mounted on the rod. Is this what other folks understanding of balance is, or is otherbalance points? Mike Biondo- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 10:28:20 1995 Subject: Re: 60 deg lathe tool Owen seez... I automatically thought of the tablesaw, too,when pondering how best to make my planingforms. But how do you adjust the taper closelyenough? ... George Barnes had a neat trick in his book _How To Make Bamboo Flyrods_ taper jig is the form stock itself. By setting the two piece of theforms, side by side, and attaching them together by tacking a scrap ofwood to their top surfaces - the forms touching each other at one end,and seperated at the other - the taper is formed. The whole thing isthen run along the fence with the blade set at 60 degrees. Cut theright side, turn the whole thing around and cut the left side. Thetwo tapering cuts are now on the outside corners. Take off the scrapsof wood holding them together, and put the tapering cuts together, andthere you have it. Standard disclaimer: I haven't tried it but it sure *sounds* like a neat idea!!! :-) Mike Biondo- from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 12:21:39 1995 Subject: Re: Reel Balance With all this talk about balance, I got wondering how do youactually go about checking the balance of a rod. I checkedthrough the books I had, and the only reference I found wasin _The Angler's Workshop_ by Lambuth. Mike,What I meant by reel balance was the static balance that, IMHO (I should drop my haitches), really makes a big difference with a laaaaaazy caster like me. I could wax poetic about the larger issue of balance but it would be regurgitating what others have said. However, when it comes to the elementary sort of balance, the kind that comes into play when you are casting short distances with the traditional "book under the arm"approach, ah, that can be sooo relaxing if the reel weight is helping you out.The traditional formula was that the reel weight should be 1.5 times the weight of the rod, such that the point of balance is 2" (approx) forward of the hookkeeper. It really works, in a general sense.I guess the rivers I fish don't really demand the Lefty Kreh approach, but when I think of the streams that Chris and Wayne enjoy, why, they canreally relax in their casting (when they have enough headroom to cast). Maybemost of us are able to go easy on the casting arm;.... 'specially with cane rods. (Dat's bait!) Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 13:59:55 1995 Subject: quote on nodes I have never been caught up in making a nodeless rod so I have just keptout of sight on that one, but I did come up with a quote: The nodes were put there for a purpose. Without them, how are bamboorodmakers ever to become crotchity old farts? Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 14:00:03 1995 Subject: Re: 60 deg lathe tool When I make wooden forms I attach a piece of wood to the rip fence -thenI raise the blade all the way and adjust the angle with a 30 - 60 - 90drafting triangle - then I lower the blade below the table top level next imove the rip fence to where I think it should be and then I raise the bladewith the motor running and cut my way into the board on the ripfence - thefinal depth can be adjusted by moving the rip fence to or away from theblade- here again the motor is running. The above method allows you to use the table saw in a similar manner asashaper - that is if the work piece falls away from the blade the dimensionisreduced and not increased. A further thought for those wanting to make wooden final forms is todothis - using a set of feeler gauges and a real sticky tape - figure out theamount that you don't want to remove and tape a piece of feeler gauge totheupper part of the wood form ( by this I mean the part that rides againsttherip fence but placed high enough so that the metal doesn't come in contactwith the blade - place the feeler gauge parts at 5" or even 2 1/2" centers-at least it sounds like a good idea Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 14:13:01 1995 Subject: Re: Reel Balance The main idea is to offset the torsion of inertia - I like a reel thatbalances at the lower end of the reelseat with no line out that way you areonly combatting the line load. I perfer Bill Ballan reels ( if any one saw itthis summer I have one with the fly on it - he put the fly on his first fivereels) they make for a complete 'trout suit'. Oh! about the casting thing on small streams - ever hear of a slingshotcast- you grab hold of the fly and pull back - aim down the rod and let it go -don't believe me - look it up Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 14:16:33 1995 Subject: Re: 60 deg lathe tool Now that you explain it, that reallydoes sound like it might work. Thanks! from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 14:37:30 1995 Subject: Re: 60 deg lathe tool To Chris The way that my teacher made our wooden forms was in a table saw. Youdon'treally need a long jig. You need to shim the form up so that it is high ononeend and touching on the other end. This way when you push the form alongthefence over the 60 degree cutter it will cut a taper in the wood as soon asyouraise the cutter up. You would want to raise the wooden form on the highendbasically as high as you want the deepest groove to be. Then you want tosetthe hight of the cutter to the same dimention "above" the bed. My feeling isthat if you do exactly this with calipers or whatever, then your forms willbeWAY WAY off. You have to take into account how much wood is going to betakenoff at the speed of your machine and you will have to do some trial anderror toboth shim up your form and set the hight of the cutter. As for the shim ontheform, you could probably glue on pieces temporarly. Since it is a constanttaper, figuring the thickness of the shims should not really be that hard Iwould say. On say a 5ft. form I would think that if you didn't press downhardon the form when passing it over the cutter, and I don't think that youshould,then 4 shims should be enough. Also, I would not "hog" off the wood. Iwouldtake several cuts so that I could measure my progress.Martin from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 19 15:33:11 1995 Subject: Re: 60 deg lathe tool Gee guys, you make it sound like you are in such a *hurry* to get yourforms made. The scraper only takes an evening and it assures that yourforms are all square and true. I think the table saw would work, but I would wonder about gettingeverything lined up perfectly and getting the depth EXACTLY the same onboth sides. Just my $.02! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 20 03:21:57 1995 Subject: Re: 60 deg lathe tool On Tue, 19 Dec 1995, Bruce Conner wrote: Gee guys, you make it sound like you are in such a *hurry* to get yourforms made. The scraper only takes an evening and it assures that yourforms are all square and true. I think the table saw would work, but I would wonder about gettingeverything lined up perfectly and getting the depth EXACTLY the same onboth sides. Just my $.02! Bruce Conner If you guys want a fast easy way that would work very well, and would ensure a true groove, at the right taper:then use a 60 degree bit in a router( they are availabe), with some kind of fence on the side to follow the contour of the fence ( if any at all ), to take equal amounts off both sides. The taper is made just by setting the forms up just like bruce conner explains. Fast easy and it gives the same results as the scraper. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 20 05:14:35 1995 Subject: Re: Reel Balance The traditional formula was that the reel weight should be 1.5 timesthe weight of the rod, such that the point of balance is 2" (approx) forwardof the hookkeeper. It really works, in a general sense. In the semi-related world of golf clubs, it is known as "swing weight".My father used to build and sell an iron driver. It had an oversizedhead (this was years ago, he was ahead of his time), so it felt verybottom-heavy. By adding weight to the handle of the club, the club actually felt lighter, and swung more easily, even though the total weight had increased. I forget exactly how it was calculated, but there were denominations such as L8, A3, etc. that classified different swing weights. Russell Gelinasgelinas@ekman.sr.unh.edu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 20 06:06:59 1995 Subject: Demerest? I am starting to build my first rod, but have been unable to reach CharlesDemerest through the phone number in Waynes book. A recording says they donot acceptanonomous calls? Is there another phone number or do I need to contactthem first through the US mail? Also in Waynes book he mentions a drying split and allowing the cane todry but Ido not recall seeing how long the cane should be dried before splittinginto strips. Anyone's help will be greatl appreciated. Jim Fillpotbx470@freenet.uchsc.edu from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 20 06:59:31 1995 Subject: Re: Demerest? On Wed, 20 Dec 1995, Jim Fillpot wrote: I am starting to build my first rod, but have been unable to reach CharlesDemerest through the phone number in Waynes book. A recording says they donot acceptanonomous calls? Is there another phone number or do I need to contactthem first through the US mail? Also in Waynes book he mentions a drying split and allowing the cane todry but Ido not recall seeing how long the cane should be dried before splittinginto strips. Anyone's help will be greatl appreciated. Jim Fillpotbx470@freenet.uchsc.edu I ordered some cane about a week ago from them.Their address is in Bruce's home page http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html.I called directory assistance for the area, and got the direct phone numberthat way. They take orders over the phone.hope this helps.mauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 20 09:16:43 1995 Subject: Rod building in Hawaii I have a friend in Hawaii who wants to build a bamboo rod. We arewondering just what problems he will run into and how to overcome them in an areaof such high humidity (around 50% to 80% most of the time). (He) says thatthe moisture in most other woods tends to hang around 19% or so. Thanks forany answers.Martin from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 20 10:48:32 1995 Subject: A Wayne Cattanach Taper Rave On Sun, 17 Dec 1995, John Brick wrote: I am looking for a small rod about 4 wt for small stream. I like fasteraction and although I am l not adverseto expensive devise I do not like to be ripped off,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, anyadvice would be appreciated. john brick I fish small streams in Colorado. Last year I built a 6'3' 3 piece 4 wtbamboo rod. After a summer of fishing with this rod it has become my favoriterod. For packing it brakes down to 25". I can easily throw 40'-50' of line ifI need to, but for the 10' to 30' range that I often fish in these smallstreams it really shines. It also has enough back bone to roll cast when youwant to. The taper is a Wayne Cattanach taper. I have made a number of bamboorods since then but this little wonder will be my rod of preference for sometome to come. Jonathan Clarke I have made a 7' 0" 4 wt. 2 piece Cattanach taper, and ditto to everythingJonathan Clarke has to say about Cattanach tapers. This rod is truly ajoy to cast. This rod is the main reason I have turned to using bamboorods for the majority of my trout fishing. Darryl Hayashidadnh@chevron.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 20 11:32:09 1995 Subject: Wood Forms - Final Thoughts had one of his final forms there. Two interesting pointsis that he made the form as a "push-pull" adjustable. He usespolished 1/4" pins as guides (MSC has them or any supply house).Second is that he screws one side of the form to a board (2x6) ateach end to give it stablity. The form is still adjustable buta bit more rigid and stable. Making a wood final form is great for those who want todapple in Quads or one piece rods without having to spend big $$. George does most of his rods on these forms. Live and learn Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 20 12:04:16 1995 Subject: Titebond-2 Final Verdict I have been using Titebond-2 for making spices on nodeless rods and also this glue for splices. I had talked with other and found no problems. Remember, I even queried this group as to any problems. I have now had problems with failure after application of heat.I splice with titebond and glue the strips with epoxy. I also heat treatthis glue to raise the thermal deflection temp. I also had to dominor straightening in a butt section and had failure of a splice section.After talking John Zimny (read his article in the latest Planing Form onglues) I called Borden Custom-Pak and talked to Kent Pitcher at length.Titebond is a PVA family glue. He recognizes the problem of a lowthermalfailure point. He does not reccomend this glue for rodbuilding. I also waswalking a thin line with the heat treatment. If I had done everything withtitebond it may be a different story, but .... He suggest either a polyurethane (Excel is one) or even bettera urea formaldehyde glue. I am switching glues for splicing because ofthe potential for failure. Others be warned about the effect of heat onthis glue. He also says that they get failure in cabinet manafacturingwhere they heat treat the finish at 200+ degrees. I will continue to use Titebond for my grips and rod cases. Sothere is a lesson to be learned here. Titebond may be easy and convient touse but you chance paying the price. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 21 02:29:57 1995 Subject: Re: Rod building in Hawaii Martin Jensen writes: I have a friend in Hawaii who wants to build a bamboo rod. We arewondering just what problems he will run into and how to overcome them in an areaof such high humidity (around 50% to 80% most of the time). (He) says thatthe moisture in most other woods tends to hang around 19% or so. Thanks forany answers. MartinI live in Florida and have to deal with humidity problems. In the summer(Nine-ten months of the year) I have the air conditioner on which keepsthehumidity at 40%. What I have done when the air is off is to store mysectionsin my heat treating oven at 130 to 150 degrees before I do any criticalfunction, gluing, planing etc. Once I get a couple of coats of tong oil onthe blanks I feel more comfortable. Jonathan Clarke from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 21 18:30:57 1995 Subject: 6' 3' - #2 weight tapers I have been reluctent in the past to list tapers for 2 weight rods -they are not intended for tarpon fishing. I have built a couple - alwayswithreservations on how they are going to be fished. Listed below are thenumbers same as the upper ferrule of the 3 piece 4 weight. These tapers will testtheol' planing forms. 6' 3" - #2 - 3 piece 6' 3" - #2 - 2 piecetip .056 .05605 .067 .06710 .081 .08115 .095 .09520 .106 .10625 .121 .12130 .132 .13535 .149 .15540 .160 .16545 .166 .17050 .178 .18155 .192 .19860 .203 .21165 .211 .22170 .211 .22175 .211 .221 Have FunWayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 21 18:50:44 1995 Subject: Binder plans I just recieved my 1st issue of the planing form. Found it full of goodinformation. I thought I had read some where in this NG about plans for a binderin a back issue. I would apprecate if any ony could tell me which back issuethe planswere in. Thanks in advance,Jim Fillpot from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 21 21:31:42 1995 Subject: Re: Binder plans Jim writes, Jim, I don't know what back issue the plans were in but last year when I was upatCorbett Lk. (BC) at the Rodbuilders workshop, I got a set of rough plans foraBob Milward (copy of a Dawn Holbrook design) binder. I built the binder anditwasn't too much trouble. I modified it a little to suit my tastes but it isbasically the same thing and it works very well. It uses four spools ofcounter-rotating thread to wrap the rod, just like the fancy wraps theyput onbig ocean fishing rods. If you can't find the plans anywhere else lit meknowand I can either fax or mail you a copy of the Milward design.Martin from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 21 21:55:46 1995 Subject: Re: Binder plans Jim writes, Jim Check out Bruce Conner's web page he has plans for the binder that you candown load. I've built one of the Milward binders as well as a Garrisonbinder, I prefer the Milward. Bruce Conner's page is at http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html Jonathan Clarke from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 21 22:00:13 1995 Subject: Re: Binder plans I just recieved my 1st issue of the planing form. Found it full of goodinformation. I thought I had read some where in this NG about plans for a binderin a back issue. I would apprecate if any ony could tell me which back issuethe planswere in. I'll see if I can find the issue for you. The plans are also at my website and available by ftp on the net. If you want to have a look, tryhttp://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 22 09:48:07 1995 Subject: Re: Binder plans The plans for the Milward binder are in issue # 3 of The Planing form. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 22 10:05:22 1995 Subject: scrapers Silly me, I had my thinking cap on again and here's what resulted: A newscraper design. Maybe. The ever lust-worthy Lee-Nielsen scraper seems to be the benchmark inthescraper world, and recent mention of a converter for changing the angle ofyour plane hasn't panned out with my esearch. All I have found is ascraper adapter for the BIG Stanley plane, not my little block plane.Somebody tell me if I'm wrong about this... Wayne's home-made scrapers are a nice idea as well, but I simply couldn'tleave well enough alone. My idea is to use the block plane you alreadyhave and modify a hock blade to make it into a scraper. All that is needed(insert optimistic attitude here) is to grind the blade so that theresulting angle at the tip ends up the same as if you had tilted the bladeto stand up in "normal" scraper fashion. I measured the angle of the bladein my Record plane and it came in at about 21 degrees. If I want a 3degree forward rake to the scraper, I would have to make the end of theblade 82 degrees (as opposed to 90 degrees which would make the end oftheblade perfectly squared off). Now it looks like I will have to also grind a little relief into theadjustable throat piece to make clearance for the forward rake of the newblade, but the actual lower edge of the throat adjustment won't betouched,so it seems safe enough. Then again, if the throat is opened enough, itwouldn't need the clearance. Any reason why the blade of a scraper HAS to be held vertically? Wouldn'tsimply raising the angle of the grind on the blade have the same effect?It seems like it should be plenty stiff enough. My preliminary tests seem to bear this out, but I haven't wanted to do a 3hour grind on my spare blade to get the thing fully ground back, I only dida little bit right at the tip until it was about 1 mm high. It ended upthat this put the adjustment at the end of the travel, so I couldn't getthe cut adjusted perfectly. If I continue grinding, it will put me in theproper adjustment range. It seemed best to ask here in case I'mreinventinga square wheel before I do any more grinding on a nice blade! Any comments are welcome, as always. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 22 12:14:08 1995 Subject: Re: Binder plans The plans for the Milward binder are in issue # 3 of The Planing form. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net Bruce, Thanks for the info. I do appreciate your help. I would like to check outyour web page but at the present time I am connected through a freenetthat does not have web access, so that will have to come later. Jim, from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 22 14:37:27 1995 Subject: Re: scrapers Any reason why the blade of a scraper HAS to be held vertically? Wouldn'tsimply raising the angle of the grind on the blade have the same effect?It seems like it should be plenty stiff enough. Actually, Bruce, if you used your burnisher thoughtfully after truing the blade you could create a cutting (scraping) edge appropriate for any angle. No one says you can't use a burnisher and a thinner scraper blade, do they? When I was doing conservation work we used to use cabinet scrapers at all sorts of angles, according to our needs. Altho' we had the Lee-Neilsen scraper, for most applications we would use cabinet scrapers, either store- bought or made from power hacksaw blades or other scavenged saw blades. Sometimes for fine work we found it easiest to cut a piece ofplate glass and use that. I'm not advocating a cabinet scraper for this application, but the burred edge is, I hope, applicable. Just a thought. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 22 15:28:40 1995 Subject: Re: scrapers Bruce No need to change the angle on your hock blade. Use itas is. Wayne showed me that have your scraper blade and planeblade both at same angle - It simplifies your sharpening. Youcan use the same setup for both. All you want, is to hold the scraper blade at a radical angle of say 87 degrees. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 22 15:53:40 1995 Subject: glue Zimny's Planing Form article hints that resorcinol's purple can belightened.Has any one read p. 94 of the latest Garrison-Carmichael book? - Grayson from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 22 16:13:31 1995 Subject: Re: glue Can anyone provide the name of a source in the SF area for urea- formaldehide glue? Is Aerolite an example?Polyurethanes are avalable from Handy-Harmon here.I have been using PU in the form "plumber's goop" for joining manymaterials. It thins with toluene-by the way.Another question- what will adhere to Black Bamboo? I have a sourcesuitable for fine wading staffs but I wish I could findsomething to stick to the outside. I can share some bamboo material.Regards, Cliffclsojourner@lbl.govRegards, Cliff from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 22 19:30:50 1995 Subject: Re: scrapers Actually, Bruce, if you used your burnisher thoughtfully after truing theblade you could create a cutting (scraping) edge appropriate for any angle.No one says you can't use a burnisher and a thinner scraper blade, dothey? When I was doing conservation work we used to use cabinet scrapers atallsorts of angles, according to our needs. Altho' we had the Lee- Neilsenscraper, for most applications we would use cabinet scrapers, eitherstore-bought or made from power hacksaw blades or other scavenged sawblades. Sometimes for fine work we found it easiest to cut a piece ofplateglass and use that. I'm not advocating a cabinet scraper for thisapplication, but the burred edge is, I hope, applicable. I thought about this for a while, but couldn't decide how it would workwith the blade being held the way it is in a plane body. Any chance youcould draw a picture of what youthink it should look like? It seems that what the burred edge does, is act as an inclined blade with avery short run before the material being cut hits into the high angle ofthe scraper blade. This keeps the burred edge from digging in very far andacting like a chisel or plane blade. Sort of like the new "safety" routerbits that only take a certain depth of bite and reduce kickback. So, thatbeing the case, should I burnish the bottom edge of the blade to projectforward and act as the cutting surface? Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 22 19:50:43 1995 Subject: Re: scrapers Bruce No need to change the angle on your hock blade. Use itas is. Wayne showed me that have your scraper blade and planeblade both at same angle - It simplifies your sharpening. Youcan use the same setup for both. All you want, is to hold thescraper blade at a radical angle of say 87 degrees. That was what I was trying to get around, you see. I wanted to hold theblade in the "normal" position in the plane body. That way all I have todo is change over to my "scraper" blade and use it as a bodied scraper.Your point about sharpening is well taken, however. Maybe I should take off the thinking cap and put on the woodworking capandmake one of Wayne's wood bodied scrapers... I just liked the adjustablitymaintained by having the regular block plane body with all the knobs thereto make the depth and skew adjustments. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Dec 23 06:50:06 1995 Subject: Re: glue On Fri, 22 Dec 1995 GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU wrote: Zimny's Planing Form article hints that resorcinol's purple can belightened. Has any one read p. 94 of the latest Garrison-Carmichael book? - Grayson I just got the new Garrison/Carmichael. Here is what is says: If you decide that you prefer the qualities of Resorcinol glue,but would rather not have the dark lines in the finished rod sections, you might try the following. Add a tip of a teaspoon'sworth of titanium dioxide, the additive that paint companies use as a basis for the color white, to the pot of mixed glue. Thenadd approximately a 1/4 of a teaspoon of inert mustard coloredpowder (both can be found in art supply stores) to the solutionand mix thoroughly. The resulting color should be a light yellow-brown, and neither additive will hurt the bonding qualities of theResorcinol. You might find that some of the pink color returnsin places where the rod has to be straightened by heat, because ofoxidation, but I offer this good, but imperfect solution, in theseimperfect times. On p. 89, the quantity of glue being mixed is 2 oz., or 3 oz includingalcohol. So I suppose these addditions are to a 2 oz glue base. I'm not sure how big a "tip of a teaspoon's worth" is. It remindsme of Mark Twain's recipe for ash cakes: A lot of flour and a lotof water and a quarter of a lot of salt.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterInformation and Media Technologies than a waterproof coat and a Univ Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Dec 23 16:08:25 1995 Subject: Re: glue Cliff A good source for urea formaldehyde is Borden Custom-Pak viamailorder. Ph nr is (614) 763-2886. John Zimny mentioned them inhis article. You can get either wet (L100 resin and S120 catalyst)or dry (cm- 12) and the GF-10 wetting solution. They also have thereactive polyeurthane also. I got my order in 2 days. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sat Dec 23 23:47:08 1995 Subject: Quadrate rods Anyone have any well tested dimensions for a nice quadrate rod? I thinkit's time I made teh forms and tried this style. Any helpful hints would also be welcome! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Dec 24 10:50:40 1995 Subject: Lightening Glue -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- A fellow maker, Richard Sherman, got me on the rail of "white urac" 2years ago. I found that either an inert pigment had been added to themix ( also sometimes wheat flour) or that the gound walnuts shells hadbeen left out- thereby leaving a very light colored glue. The truth isthat the brown color of the UF glue comes from ground walnut shells and the reason for this in themixture is gap filling. There is in addition to the walnut shells andacid salt which "kicks" the mix into the polymerized state (hardens).So, in theory, it is possible to harden the mixture through theaddition of any of the acid salts. As for resorsinol glues, you have a very deep color to contend with.Mr. Carmichael's directions are right on the money. Regards John Zimny from owner-rodmakers@wugate Tue Dec 26 17:36:24 1995 Subject: Re: Quadrate rods Bruce I casted a very nice Quad this fall. Bill Fink built it basedupon a Garrison taper (204). To get the quad taper from a hex multiply in the rod between hex and quad. Give that a try on your favorite taperand go from there. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 27 11:59:08 1995 Subject: nodeless taper I have read most of both wayne's and garrison's books(reprint), and collected most of the tools. My wooden planing forms are just aboutfinished (i have to put the grove in). My bamboo should be here any day now, and I'm getting very excited. Both books mention splicing, and there is some discussion of a nodeless rod in the garrison book, but no real details about this being a commonmethod for making rods. Garrison only made one nodeless, and that was a ~5ft. rod or so.Why did nodeless not take off more quickly? Here's my question:There was some discusion about nodes stiffening a rod. This I assume means that the tapers will be different for a given rod action.Has anyone seen or come up with tapers for nodeless? My impresion isthat one could make the rod somewhat thiner (lighter) and still get the same action.Thanks in advance.mauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Dec 27 18:26:18 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless taper Mauro I think Garrison's book makes building a nodeless rod anbig deal. First impression is that making all the splices addslots of time to the project. So it has scared a number of peopleoff from trying such a rod. In reality it may be easier to buildnodeless rods. I don't think nodeless rods are stiffer. They can becharacterized as smoother. I don't think you need to change yourtaper. This is equivilant to changing glues. Do people matchtheir taper to glue?? It prob has more of an effect on the taperthan splices. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 28 15:06:06 1995 Subject: nodeless heat treating Do experienced makers of nodeless rods heat for more than 10 min @375because they are heating internodes rather than splines? Thanks! Grayson from owner-rodmakers@wugate Thu Dec 28 17:26:43 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless heat treating Grayson 10 minutes is excessive. Once I cut the culm down into sectionswithout nodes, I treat for 7 - 8 minutes @ 375. I find that any longer willproduce undesirable results. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 29 09:30:28 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless heat treating On Thu, 28 Dec 1995 cbogart@ibm.net wrote: Grayson 10 minutes is excessive. Once I cut the culm down into sectionswithout nodes, I treat for 7 - 8 minutes @ 375. I find that any longerwillproduce undesirable results. Chris I just got my bamboo!It still looks green.How should I proceed from here? Should I put a drying split in the ones I won't use right away? Could I heat treat these right now, or do I have to wait until they are aged a bit? The ones that seem a little more aged I was goingto cut out the nodes, so that I would have a few bamboo tubes, and thensplit these in half, then into 6 then into 18 etc.., and then heat treat the split strips in the oven. Or should I heat the tubes and then split?Does it matter? Something I noticed, is that at the ends where the culms were cut, there are a few frayed outer fibers. Is this something I have to be carefull to avoid when I'm cutting?thanks in advance.mauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 29 16:31:12 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless heat treating Mauro Lots of questions - here a few answers If you plan on flaming rods then green don't matter. If youwant blond put in sun and it will bleach it over a period of months. Put in drying split right away and put them in attic or simularplace - make sure roof don't leak. I keep mine in my barn loft. Don't heat treat until ready to build rod. Cut out nodes prior to heat treating. Heat treat the cylinders (tubes) before spliting. After heat treatingthey will split just like well seasoned oak. Frayed ends were caused by the saw when it first cuts in. Youcan cut by hand with hack saw (or expensive japanesse ones) and advoidthis.If you cut on power saw - start the cut and rotate the culm to minimizethis problem. Hope I got all the questions Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 29 16:42:31 1995 Subject: Re: nodeless heat treating Frayed ends were caused by the saw when it first cuts in. Youcan cut by hand with hack saw (or expensive japanesse ones) and advoidthis.If you cut on power saw - start the cut and rotate the culm to minimizethis problem. I wrap a couple of layers of masking tape tightly over the place I am goingto cut. It helps keep the fibers from lifting very well. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 29 18:39:50 1995 Subject: Frazer Book at good price I found a copy of Perry D. Frazer's "Amateur Rodmaking" in a usedbookstore today. As I already have a copy, I asked them to hold it for me while I checked with a friend (You all). The price is $25 (that's cheap) and the book is near mint with the original dustjacket. I neglected to check the printing, this book was first copyrighted in 1914 and again in 1942 andwent through many printings. If anyone is interested, email me pronto and I will go down and buy it for you. Reedrcurry@jlc.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 29 19:51:10 1995 Subject: Re: Frazer Book at good price Yes I am interested in the book. I am probably too late but let me know. Thanks Rich Jeziororichjez@wwa.com37021 Sheridan Rd.Waukegan IL. 60087(708) 662-1727 *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 29 22:01:27 1995 Subject: Re: Frazer Book at good price That was quick. Rich Jezioro was the first to respond. I'm glad one of the list members wanted the book and not just a collector. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Fri Dec 29 22:09:24 1995 Subject: Re: Frazer Book at good price Yes I am interested in the book. I am probably too late but let me know. Thanks Rich Jeziororichjez@wwa.com37021 Sheridan Rd.Waukegan IL. 60087(708) 662-1727 Rich, you were number one (by minutes). I will get the book tomorrow and mail it off on Tuesday. I'll then email you the cost of postage (probably about $1 or $2) and you can mail a check for the total to me at: Reed CurryR.R. #2 Box 468Temple, N.H. 03084(603)878-5007 Best regards,Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Dec 31 13:51:54 1995 Subject: bamboo-heating and splitting I need help with two problems: 1. What are the 'problems' that result from oven heating bambooat 375'F for greater than 9-10 minutes? 2. I waste a lot of bamboo. from one half of a 2 1/2" culm thebest I can achieve is 6 to 7 usable strips. I have tried a Japanesesplitting knife and a thin paring knife either hand held or held in a vice. Happy New Year, Jim Boone. from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Dec 31 17:00:56 1995 Subject: Re: Quadrate rods Bruce I casted a very nice Quad this fall. Bill Fink built it basedupon a Garrison taper (204). To get the quad taper from a hex multiply in the rod between hex and quad. Give that a try on your favorite taperand go from there. What's the correct way to deal with the ferrules? Do I add little slips ofcane to build up the ferrule area or do I trim the corners off the sqaureor a little of both? Of course, I could just make it a one piece rod. 7 1/2 feet is a bitcumbersome! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Dec 31 17:06:35 1995 Subject: Re: bamboo-heating and splitting Jim Excessive heat treating will end up weakening the cane.There is a point that the moisture and resin has been driven off.This tempers the cane. Once this is done, then start have an adverse effect. You end up carmelizing the cane and making itbrittle. Keep going and you have charcoal. Garrison did a lotof study about optimal times. There is a good discussion of thisin his book. As for spliting - it is hard to say what your problemis without watching. Are you using a bamboo froe ? This workswell. Alternative is to go nodeless and splitting that way isa snap - may end up saving you a lot of cane. Chris from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Dec 31 17:51:33 1995 Subject: Re: bamboo-heating and splitting Jim WritesI need help with two problems: 1. What are the 'problems' that result from oven >heating bambooat 375'F for greater than 9-10 minutes? 2. I waste a lot of bamboo. from one half of a 2 1/2" >culm thebest I can achieve is 6 to 7 usable strips. I have tried a >Japanesesplitting knife and a thin paring knife either hand held or held >in a vice. Happy New Year, Jim Boone. Jim I can share your frustration. I am going into my second year of makingrods.The first two culms that I split were a nightmare. The third was betterandthe last to were great. Two things happened. I stuck with it. When you make a rod you get lots ofpractice planing, you only get one shot at the culm, you will get better atit. The other thing that worked for me was a different approach. I now splittheculm in half with my fro. Then I mark each half to be split in thirds. Imount my fro in a vice an a good solid workbench with the blade up. Liningthe half culm up against the fro I give it a sharp rap on the end to startthe split. Do the same for the next split. Split these pieces in half andthen half again buy pushing the bamboo into the fro. BE CAREFUL !!!OBVIOUSLY YOU MUST KEEP YOUR PUSHING HAND FOR from THE FRO. If yoursplitstarts to wander slightly put pressure on that side pushing it towards tofro. I just split a fro this weekend and got 48 pieces and most are usable. Myfeeling is that I want to get one rod out a fro, anything more is a bonus. from this fro I got enough pieces to make a 8' 2/2, 7' 2/1 & 5' 1 piece. Splitting has gone from a hair pulling experience to an enjoyable part oftherod making experience. Hope this will help, Jon from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Dec 31 19:23:01 1995 Subject: Re: bamboo-heating and splitting Jim -As other have said - there is a limit at which the strips can be heattreated @ 375 before the is critical damage - I once forgot about somestripsin the oven and at about 10 minutes I had fibers and dust (dried lignum) soplease be careful. The idea of heat treating is to reduce the moisture andthis can be monitored in test strips. Using a grain scale (used for handloading bullets) and weight a test bundle before and at intervals ofdifferent times. Once you stop losing weight then there is really no needforfurther heat treating. Splitting - NEVER push the froe through the bamboo - you want to use aneutral twisting action to cause the split to move down stream. By that Imean without 'pushing the froe simply twist it to cause the split to moveandthen lightly follow the split with the froe until resistance is felt and thentwist it again. In fact once you have made the initial split the froe can beturned about (blunt end forward) - the sharp edge is not causing thebambooto split the twist is.Now for walking - remember this is not a race to see how fast the bamboocanbe split but rather how many useful pieces that you can get. After eachtwiststop to evaluate if the split is on center or if it needs to move. Alwaysflex the bamboo so that the fatter side is being pushed into the froe. Sidepressure not forward pressure. And always keep the froe perpendicular tothesurface of the bamboo or you will get 'backcut pieces which will be hardtoshape to 60 degree angles in the forms. I hope this has helped Wayne CattanachCasnovia,MI from owner-rodmakers@wugate Sun Dec 31 19:30:44 1995 Subject: For Hans I apologize to the list members but for some Reason AOL is not letting mesend this message Hans -The Dutch title is 'Bamboe vliegenhengels met de hand maken' - thetrabslater is Jan Tjeerd Rommen - and the address for the KOK Company isasfollows KokStrevelsweg 763075 AMRotterdam I hope this will help you in finding the book - but if you need moreinformation I will be more than glad to help Best of wishes for the new year Wayne Cattanach