from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 08:23:24 1996 Subject: Re: Exponential functions Hi John.My experience with rod tapers is very lacking to say the least. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought Garrison used a semi parabolic STRESS curve to derive a taper.I'm suggesting a TAPER with curvature.I've looked at a few of Wayne's tapers and the one Garrison taper which Darryl used in his example the other day, and both average about a LINEAR taper. Both deviate from the line in certain places, Wayne's much mure than Garrisons, but still they are on average straight. So I pose the question once again. Any curved TAPERS? Thanks in advance for any answers.Mauro. On Thu, 29 Feb 1996, MR JOHN C ZIMNY wrote: -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Indeed, someone has thought of making a rod taper from an exponentialfunction. Garrison. Zimny from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 09:42:25 1996 Subject: Re: Slope and Rod Action DarrylI'm in the process of converting Waynes Hexrod, including Graphs and perhapsslope, to Excel. I hope to be generating a DOS and Mac version . I'll makeit available in a Zip file -- but only with Waynes permission and blessing,I'f youre interested.Jerry Foster I also have been working on an Excel version of hexrod off and on...There was a lot of things that I had to guess about, but since he postedthe actual code the other day, I started getting more serious aboutactually finishing it. I would be very interested in seeing yours. Itwould save me a lot of work. My spreadsheet I use for looking at tapers is a simple one, it justtakes the tapers as they are written in the books, plots in a line chartof the diameter vs. the length, divides the diameters in half so I canset my planing form if I decide to actually make the rod. I also plotthe slope, but up until recently all I did was look at it. It's only in thelast taper I posted on the list that I used the Goal Seek features inExcel to click and drag the line in the slope plot and have it changethe diameter to get back to the chosen slope. If you can receiveattachments I can send you the spreadsheet if you like. Let me knowyour email address so the attachment won't clog up the list server. 3.0 or 2.1 format. I don't think the Goal Seek functions will work in3.0 or older. Darryl Hayashida from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 13:59:02 1996 Subject: Re: The plan ! Hi there.Since I have been on the list for a short time, I'm not familiar withthe BBQ. I ould be interested in attending, but would like some info as to where and when.Thanks in advance.Mauro. On Wed, 28 Feb 1996 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I have mentioned in the past that I am working on descriptive text andgraphs to address the lack of information about rod designs. My friendLarryBlan and I have had these long late night discussions and the conceptsareset in place - it's just the time of putting it to paper - The general I've share here as I will with the completed project. The self imposeddeadline is now set for the Trout Bum BBQ.Also I have had many requests to do a hand ons workshop as well. Whatwehave come up with is to do this after the formal agenda on friday(afternoon)evening. I will have all the tools and workbenches at the 'clubhouse' -thereis no time limit and no fee - but it would be nice to have a rough numberofinterested bodies. Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 13:59:02 1996 Subject: Re: The plan ! Hi there.Since I have been on the list for a short time, I'm not familiar withthe BBQ. I ould be interested in attending, but would like some info as to where and when.Thanks in advance.Mauro. On Wed, 28 Feb 1996 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I have mentioned in the past that I am working on descriptive text andgraphs to address the lack of information about rod designs. My friendLarryBlan and I have had these long late night discussions and the conceptsareset in place - it's just the time of putting it to paper - The general I've share here as I will with the completed project. The self imposeddeadline is now set for the Trout Bum BBQ.Also I have had many requests to do a hand ons workshop as well. Whatwehave come up with is to do this after the formal agenda on friday(afternoon)evening. I will have all the tools and workbenches at the 'clubhouse' -thereis no time limit and no fee - but it would be nice to have a rough numberofinterested bodies. Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 18:34:19 1996 Subject: Something for you math heads! I was surfing around on the web (fishing stuff naturally!) and I foundsomehting very interesting. It's closely related to the discussion on rodtapers going on right now. Take a look at http://www.mit.edu:8001//people/kommers/fly.html tosee adiscussion of the physics of flycasting! I can't look at the MPEGanimations, but I will try to get that ability ASAP. This might be a starting point for making a more sophisticated computermodel for rod action with the effect of the flyline added. Let me know what you think of this site, it looks pretty useful to me! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 19:21:24 1996 Subject: Re: Exponential functions Hi folks,Being new to this list I'm a bit shy about sticking my $.02 in,buthere goes. I've been fooling around with rod tapers for about 20 years.Everytime I deviate from a straightline taper I end up with a disaster. I've castrods with a decided hinge in the middle that were good for roll casts andnothing else. Some of my tapers start at .058 ". I know I'm pushing theparameters a bit but I've been fishing a 7' hard since '82 with no illeffects. To increase speed I'll give the tip a parabolic taper in the 1st2/3. Of course, being a retired farmer I think I can do anything whichmeansI have a lot to learn. Makes life interesting don't it? Sorry for the BW.Hank Woolman from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 19:39:32 1996 Subject: Does one slope fit all? -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- That's it Chris. It appears to me that some very good rod taperscontain multiple slopes. Some apparently exponential and someapparently quadratic or cubic slopes coexisting in the same rod. Itpoints up a major problem in that perhaps our model and therefore ourbasic concept of the thing that produces rod actions is incorrect. Itbegins to boggle the mind. I think I'd rather go fishing. John from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 19:58:31 1996 Subject: Re: Something for you math heads! It's already been done. When I wrote Hexrod I also wrote a programcalledCast. The project was to build a robotic arm that would cast a fly rod.Hexrod was wrote to control the design of the fly rods ( there is agraphiteversion). Cast was written to act as a setup program for the robotic arm.Theprogram ploted points on the rod as it was cast that could be compared tothephoto capture of the actual rod being cast by the robotic arm. Castcalculated every 1/2" of the rod every 1/2 degree of motion. To do a backcast on an XT machine (the fastest of the time) took about an hour. Therobotic arm project was abandon because of the physical plant (windtunnel)that would have also been needed. Cast was never brought to completion.I hadn't thought of Cast until I talked to Dane Johnson last year. I thenwent on a search for my notes and diskettes and so for I haven't been abletofind them. I suspect that it was one of several programs that I left behindwhen I walked out on my partner - I also had a heat loss program and aradiant floor layout program that I haven't seen either. For those whohaven't heard the story - seven years ago I had a partner and 'babysat forfourteen employees' - then my partner (who was letting his little headdoinghis thinking) beat up his wife - the next morning I left 12 years of my life(& money)behind and walked out of the business.Cast was basically a deflection program. It would figure the movementofthe rod at 1/2" intervals then the angle change and then recalculate. Itcould be used to compare a predicted arch with an actual deflection boardarch. The applied cast and line wave portion was off some notes of CraigSpolak's that I got from Bruce Richards of Scientific Angler.As you can see I once thought that an active investigation of a fly rodwas important but since then I have found that a static investigation isfarmore workable. I plan on cleaning up my act sometime shortly and hope tofindsomething. I haven't talked to my ex since I left seven years ago and hefinally ran the business into the dirt about three years ago so there wouldbe no source there. Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 20:15:57 1996 Subject: Re: Something for you math heads! It's already been done. When I wrote Hexrod I also wrote a programcalledCast. The project was to build a robotic arm that would cast a fly rod.Hexrod was wrote to control the design of the fly rods ( there is agraphiteversion). Cast was written to act as a setup program for the robotic arm.Theprogram ploted points on the rod as it was cast that could be compared tothephoto capture of the actual rod being cast by the robotic arm. Castcalculated every 1/2" of the rod every 1/2 degree of motion. To do a backcast on an XT machine (the fastest of the time) took about an hour. Therobotic arm project was abandon because of the physical plant (windtunnel)that would have also been needed. Cast was never brought to completion. I'd love to see it, Wayne. The web site I mentioned earlier is concernedstrictly with the flyline, not the rod. If you manage to dig up your notes on this, let us know, OK? Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 1 20:33:57 1996 Subject: Re: Slope and Rod Action DarrylYes, I,d be glad to see what youv'e done and include or clone it if you don'tmind. my current mail adr is JFoster989@aol.com Are you going to th bumbbq?Jerry from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sat Mar 2 10:26:03 1996 Subject: Re: Something for you math heads! To Wayne,Richard Tyree, John Zimny, et al,Thanks for all your help. The NH4CL in the Urac 185 worked well might consider i'd died and gone to heaven.Hank Woolman. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sat Mar 2 14:30:38 1996 Subject: Night mare .. breaking a rod I still hear the sound of the rod breaking in my hands, one day after ithappened. I am to blame, I shouldn't have lifted the fish from the water bythe rod. The Hardy Accuracy 5'6" cane spinning rod from the 50s, built especially an old Abu "thread line" reel and a 5 gram lure from the 40s. All perfectlymatching except for the new 0.18mm line. Just below where I live I use to go and catch fish for my cat in the sea. from the harbour I supply her with fresh fish all year round. Now thefishing is good. I mainly take "sei", coalfish, in the inner harbour area.Not for human consumption of course, the water is not clean here, but thecat does not care. After some casts a fish took my lure. The rod bent deeply and the breakstarted to scream. Five minutes later I had the fish right under me: a codof approximetely 4 pounds. What now? I couldn't climb down to it, nor wasthere any long landing net available. I simply lifted it by the rod. Then Iheard that terrible sound of breaking bamboo. I didn't realize what it wasat first. The reel? Too late I understood, it must have been at the samemoment as the knot broke and the fish disappeared with the old spoon. Losing the fish might have saved the rod. Only one flat was broken and thesplintered wood pieces from the fracture pointed up on both sides of anode. I will be able to repair the damages. But I still hear the sound ofit, like a night mare... from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 3 09:50:59 1996 Subject: Re: Tips vs Butts Now that the taper discussions are running hot and heavy. I haveone little question. Does one slope fit all. I find that we canreally effect the action in the tip section more than butt. Chris,Right on. However, I would like to offer the premise that the mid is equally worthy of attention. For example, a change in the butt will affect the initial flow of power, and a change in the tip will dictate whether you have a straight, clean line loop; but the mid is the general interpreter. A mid with a steep taper near the butt and then little taper when used witha thin tip will give you a slow(er) action; coarsen the tip and you would have a parabolic. Reed from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Mar 4 00:29:09 1996 Subject: Trout Bum BBQ II rodmakers in Pennsyslvania - well last year neither Ron or I couldschedulethe time to come to PA - so instead the get together was moved toGrayling,Michigan. Also there was a group from the Compuserve flyfishing forum intownto do some flydrinking. To top off the scheduled activities The Fly Factoryand Spikes decided that a social event would be in order. Thus the firstannual Trout Bum BBQ - there were even t - shirts - a course of sportingflies and a few 'cocktails'.Well before the end of the evening it had already been decided to have asecond. This years event is June 22 again in Grayling, Michigan. And thereisat least a group of rodmakers that are going to get together both the 21 &22- with discussions on rod making and also workshop type things. ALSO thisisabout the second week of the famous HEX hatch here - the hexegenialimbatafemale has a wing span of 2 1/2" and the best fishing is after dark.Becauseof the fact that our 'clubhouse' is located in Grayrock I along with severalof my friends were able to guide some of the list members in our AuSableriverboats. I think they had fun. About 45 rodmakers were there - fromwhat Ifiqure there will be quite a few more this year.Ron has now decided to help with the get together and those interestedcan make reservations through him at 616 - 945 -2329 evenings. If Ron isoutof reservations let me know - We are having to limit the number to 150andany profits from the event will go to the AuSable River RestorationCommittee. When we stayed with the Demarests this past Janurary they said thattheyshould be there this year - Harold does a slide show about the history andgrowing of bamboo. I have committed to have a presentation on rod designaswell as an evening hands on workshop ( last year we watched the sun rise)andthere will be several other interesting and educational presentations byother very talanted folks. And Fishing Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Mar 4 08:02:58 1996 Subject: glue I measured the temerature in the room where I glue up my strips, and its65 deg F. the minimum temp is supposed to be 70 for URAC. Could this be the root of my many frustrating problems?Thanks in advance.Mauro from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Mar 4 12:24:39 1996 Subject: A site I found Hey, guys, here's a website I stumbled across while looking for somethingelse. Check it out.http://www.nano.no/%7Etelemark/FlyFishing/Frank Armbruster (Colorado Bootstrap) from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Mar 4 14:25:02 1996 Subject: Anger's Journal ? If anyone on the list subscribes to Angler's Journal could you pleasecontactme Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 6 16:40:49 1996 Subject: Re: Finger Cots or a Glove? I find finger cots are cheap in Canada even at full price. Theygive a better hold on the bamboo when planing. They also will fit nicelyinto the finger of glove when it developes a hole, if you prefer a glove. Jim. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 7 10:03:33 1996 Subject: tapers? I was reading Vincent Marinaro's book "In the Ring of the Rise". Hehas a chapter devoted to his theory and design of cane rods. He went withtheRobert Crompton's idea that a bamboo fly rod should be designed with aconvexor barreled configuration. The same idea used on the early ship mast orcolumns-pillars of early Grecian architecture. An interesting idea and onethatseems to have been over looked in the recent discussion on this listserver. However, Marinaro did stated that it was important just where the "fat"partwas located in each section. Few can deny that he was a creative thinkerwithinnovative ideas, both of his book prove this point. I believe that his roddesign was quite an accompolishment after all you don't see many 9', 3pc.5#rods out there that come in onder 4 oz. Now for the big question. Doesanyoneout there in cyberland have the specs for his taper, or did it follow him tohis grave? Has anyone played around with designing tapers based onMarinaro'stheories? Come on.......Rodmakers has been a little slow the last few days. Bill Blackburn from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 7 13:57:27 1996 Subject: Re: tapers? Bill et al,I haven't tried any of Marinaro's barrel tapers but remember anytime you decrease the general degree of slope and then increase it, in that"valley" you will increase the stress factors and have a hinge in that area.If thats what you're after, O.K. I would consider a barrel taper as anoverall configuration with a fast tip and action down into the butt. Ofcourse the degree of slope and relative variation of slope can make largedifferences in actions within a double or triple barrel taper. In any case itwill be fun to try some.I'll let the list know after I've made one.Hank Woolman. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 7 18:43:37 1996 Subject: Re: tapers? Bill et al,I just remembered that my nephew inherited an Orvis cane 8 ' fora 6 wgt. It had a double barrel taper with the "valley" near the middle ofthe 2pc. rod. I guess it was made in the late 40's or early 50's. It was abit slow for my taste but what I really didn't like was the two stage pulseI felt when I cast it. The two "barrels" were quite pronounced and perhapsifthey had been less so the double pulse would not have been so obvious. Ihaven't planed any tapers like it, yet. If anybody has, I'd like to hearabout it.Hank Woolman. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 7 21:45:54 1996 Subject: Re: Finger Cots or a Glove? If you have various problems with finger cotts, as I did, you mightconsiderthis alternative. It is a gardening glove that I found at Walmart. It is alight weight cotton glove with small dots of rubber-like material in thecritical grip areas. It is a great improvement to the typical gauntletleather glove that I had tried before. The gloves are easy to put on andremove and really enhance gripping a plane. My 2 cents. Regards, Richard Tyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 8 01:27:02 1996 Subject: rookie wants to know Hi there everybody! Is there anybody who knows what is the best/easiest/cheapest way to get tonkin bamboo and maybe some books (I would prefer to Master`s Guideto building a Bamboo Fly Rod by Garrison/Carmichael) from Finland. I knowthere is some rodmakers in Finland, too and if you are reading this message, please reply. I really would like to try building a bamboo rod but since I don`t have any bamboo it might be a little bit difficult, or what...?If you have good tips for a rookie... I am waiting. Regards, Seppo Karkkainen from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 8 08:43:11 1996 Subject: Re: Finger Cots or a Glove? Someone...I'm pretty sure it was Wayne, in his new video...hadwhat I think is a great idea for an alternative to cots/gloves.He was using a pink-pearl eraser to hold the rod segment whileplaning. I haven't tried it yet, but it sure sounds like a good idea. Seems as it would give a good grip on the segment while keepingthe ol' pinkies out of harms way. Has anyone else tried this??? Mike BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 8 16:53:48 1996 Subject: Re: Finger Cots or a Glove? Yes, I was in one of Wayne's classes in Cotter and I can highly recommendtheeraser technique. It'll still get you though.Jerry from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sat Mar 9 15:56:29 1996 Subject: For Sale: Frazer Amateur Rodmaking I found a copy of Amateur Rodmaking by Perry D. Frazer at a localAntiquarianBook Sale today. If anyone is interested PLEASE E-MAIL ME DIRECTLY atJonRC@aol.com. It's a 1949 edition, in great condition, no dust jacket,$30.00. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sat Mar 9 21:39:20 1996 Subject: Re: tapers? Hello Hank:In the original, you wrote " I would consider a barrel taper as anoverall configuration with a fast tip and action down into the butt. Ofcourse the degree of slope and relative variation of slope can make largedifferences in actions within a double or triple barrel taper. In any case itwill be fun to try some."Paul Young would probably be very proud of you - that seems todescribethe curve of the PHY Perfectionist to a "T". Some say the Perfectionist isthe best of the best. The two I have cast are in a word, super! Best Regards, Richard Tyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sat Mar 9 21:39:59 1996 Subject: Re: tapers? Hello again Hank:You wrote: " I just remembered that my nephew inherited an Orvis cane8' fora 6 wgt. It had a double barrel taper with the "valley" near the middle ofthe 2pc. rod. I guess it was made in the late 40's or early 50's. It was abit slow for my taste but what I really didn't like was the two stage pulseI felt when I cast it." And: " I haven't planed any tapers like it, yet. Ifanybody has, I'd like to hear about it." I have an Orvis Flea, 6-6, 2-pc #4,that I made from blanks years ago. It has a plotted taper profile thatlookslike what you describe as a dbl bbl. It is quite slow but powerful (fairlylarge tip d) and an overall enjoyable rod with which to fish. I intend toduplicate it one day. Also have a Granger taper of a 7-6, 3-pc, #4 thatplots out a a triple bbl. As I remember, it had a nice casting feel, tho I'mreally not much of a fly caster. Best Regards, Richard Tyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sat Mar 9 23:33:50 1996 Subject: Re: tapers? Paul Young would probably be very proud of you - that seems todescribethe curve of the PHY Perfectionist to a "T". Some say the Perfectionist isthe best of the best. The two I have cast are in a word, super! Best Regards, Richard Tyree Speaking of which, does anyone have a good set of measurements for aPerfectionist? I've been looking for this for a while with no luck. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sat Mar 9 23:47:27 1996 Subject: perfectionist I too am looking for the taper specs for the Paul Young Perf. If anyone has'em please post them. Thanks, Bill Blackburn from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 10 07:27:44 1996 ld The book has been sold. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 10 09:51:10 1996 Subject: Frazer Amateur Rodmaking has been sold The Frazer Amateur Rodmaking has been sold! from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 10 15:14:33 1996 Hello there.I just learned about this list when going through the flyfish@ archives onthe subject "rodbuilding". I would like to know how to subscribe.I am new to the net, so these proceedings are somewhat confusing to me.Notnew to rodbuilding, though. I have been building rods for something like 15years now, for a few recent years on a commercial basis. Thing is, though,that we are very few here in scandinavia, so this is pure gold to me. Hopeto be able to contribute, too.Please let me know what to do. respectfully Bo Wessman (p.s. in case the procedure is the same as with flyfish@ I put down here: subscribe rodmakers Bo Wessman d.s. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 10 22:57:42 1996 Subject: Nodeless Before starting a nodeless rod, I would like to confirm several procedures First, if starting with a culm that has been halved, I assume that the buttsection of the rod should be made from the lower or butt section of theculm andthe tip section from the upper portion. Second, after tempering and splitting the nodeless sections, I assume thattheindividual strips should be made by splicing pieces from successivesections ofthe culm. Lastly, I assume that the strips shuld be staggered in the same manner asin thetraditional method with nodes intact. I would appreciate learning if I am on the right track. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Mar 12 08:17:35 1996 Subject: Leonard Rod Specs I just acquired a Leonard 6' 10" 4/5 wt bamboo blank to finish out. It isalready ferruled. My question(s):Does any have a similar finished production rod to describe real set type,grip type, color wraps, guide placement. Is anyone (Mr. Spurr) able to give me this information about this sizeLeonard rod in general. I'm in the process of deciding to either finish the rod in a classic style(if I caan obtain the type of information listed above) or to just customizeit to suit my personl preferences. Please E-mail direct Russell LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com4 Fox Haven LaneSt. Albans Vt. 518-297-4444Fax 518-297-2960 from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Mar 12 12:34:03 1996 Subject: "Growing" Parts I have a chance to purchase a Heddon #20 "Bill Stanley'sFavorite" 5 wt. which would be a nice partner to my BlackBeauty, but the mid section is about 4 inches short. Should Iconsider this to be a terminal problem or would it seem areasonable project to "grow a part" by splicing a portion ontothe short section. Having never performed this particularrepair procedure before I am wary of the possible pitfalls andI wonder if anyone out there has experience doing this. Ohyeah, the asking price for the rod is $110 and it appears tootherwise be in pretty good shape. Any comments? Thanks. Dave Makel from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 13 08:11:08 1996 Subject: Pink Pet Trick office supply and grab yourself a pink pet(pearl) eraser. Kim Fairchildneeded a way of holding strips in our last class and this is what evolved. Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 14 04:35:39 1996 Subject: my1rod Hey folks,I'm working on my first rod. The Tip-Section is allready glued andsince a few days the kinks and twists are out. And thats my questionabout:Is there anyone who knows a better and easier way to get all the kinksand twists out as by warming up and bending ??The most problems i have is to locate the right position of the kinks ? I have an idea myself but it works not so good as i wish.Maybe someone try it this way and have some more ideas:I hang up the blank at the ceiling of my working-room and hanga weight (about an Kilogramm) on it.Then i heat it up step by step (inch for inch) with an heat gun.I do with procedure 2 to 3 times and the great kinks were gone.But some of them were allready there. tight lines Michael Brandt (Germany) from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 14 05:35:01 1996 Subject: Re: my1rod After gluiing the splices and the glue is still fresh,I pu the rodsection on a flat table an put a large piece of glass on it.I roll the section between table and glass for about 15 min.works fine for me. greetingsHans Kohl Hey folks,I'm working on my first rod. The Tip-Section is allready glued andsince a few days the kinks and twists are out. And thats my questionabout:Is there anyone who knows a better and easier way to get all the kinksand twists out as by warming up and bending ??The most problems i have is to locate the right position of the kinks ? I have an idea myself but it works not so good as i wish.Maybe someone try it this way and have some more ideas:I hang up the blank at the ceiling of my working-room and hanga weight (about an Kilogramm) on it.Then i heat it up step by step (inch for inch) with an heat gun.I do with procedure 2 to 3 times and the great kinks were gone.But some of them were allready there. tight lines Michael Brandt (Germany) from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 14 08:04:46 1996 Subject: Re: Pink Pet Trick Wayne et al,As I lost the fingers of my right hand some years ago I've beenusing an eraser to hold the strips when they're getting down close to theform. It never occurred to me that someone else might benefit from this.Sorry about that.Question: Did Jim Payne make the Abercrombie&Fitch Payne canerods?I have a fishing buddy who has access to one at a reasonable price.Thanks for any help you can give,Hank Woolman. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 15 14:00:48 1996 Subject: some rod stuff Enough testing, I have a question. the stuff? I found a company who sells it, but they won't sell less than a mill run (a whole buch more than I will ever use in my life time).If anyone has some they would be willing to sell, please let me know.Thanks in advance.Mauro. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sat Mar 16 09:24:18 1996 Subject: Nickel-Silver -- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Mauro et al:Try the following:The Fly Rod Room (Dave LeClair)Box 505 Elbridge NY 13060 (315) 689-7896 Metal Buyers Mart N15 W22218 Watertown Road #3Waukesha, WI 53186(800) 657 0721John from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 17 12:12:06 1996 ne with AOL and this is my first contact with the Rodmakersmail. So who is out there and what is happening?Jon ParkerBallston Lake, NY from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 17 12:56:17 1996 Subject: Who is out there? Jon, I'm new to the rodmakers and I've been watching for afew weeks. Volume has been pretty low of late. Perhaps,your presence will perk things up a bit. I've seen yourrods advertised in Len Codella's catalogue and actuallywiggled a few at Len's old haunt up in Turners Falls. I especially remember a fast parabolic five strip of yoursthat was just lovely. (As it happens, I was already commited to A.J.Thramer sticks.) I'm not a care builder, but I love the craft and I like to knowwhat's happening in case a rod pops up that interests me. You'reclearly in the elite ranks, Jon. Hope some of the newer builders on the listget the benefit of your advice so I can buy from them before they'refamous. :-) richard r_frank@foma.wsc.mass.edu Richard FrankDepartment of EducationWestfield State CollegeWestfield, MA 01086*****************************************I never get the last word!***************************************** from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 17 13:25:37 1996 Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver Thanks John.I'll be in touch with them (metal buyers mart) on Monday. If it is OK withpeople on the list I'm willing to get prices on various sizes and post them.If there are any objections to this at all please let me know.Mauro. At 10:33 AM 3/15/96 EST, you wrote:-- [ From: John Zimny * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] -- Mauro et al:Try the following:The Fly Rod Room (Dave LeClair)Box 505 Elbridge NY 13060 (315) 689-7896 Metal Buyers Mart N15 W22218 Watertown Road #3Waukesha, WI 53186(800) 657 0721John from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 17 14:31:14 1996 Subject: Re: ne with AOL and this is my first contact with the Rodmakersmail. So who is out there and what is happening?Jon ParkerBallston Lake, NY Hi John! Welcome to the list. I'm sure you will have a lot of input for us here.If you want to get up to speed on what we have been doing, go to my webpage http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html and look toward thebottomof the thing for the "back issues". The March stuff isn't there yet, butat least you will get an idea of what has gone on up to the beginning ofMarch. Pipe up if you have any problem with the web page! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 17 14:31:14 1996 Subject: Re: ne with AOL and this is my first contact with the Rodmakersmail. So who is out there and what is happening?Jon ParkerBallston Lake, NY Hi John! Welcome to the list. I'm sure you will have a lot of input for us here.If you want to get up to speed on what we have been doing, go to my webpage http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html and look toward thebottomof the thing for the "back issues". The March stuff isn't there yet, butat least you will get an idea of what has gone on up to the beginning ofMarch. Pipe up if you have any problem with the web page! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 17 14:31:21 1996 Subject: Re: Nickel-Silver Thanks John.I'll be in touch with them (metal buyers mart) on Monday. If it is OK withpeople on the list I'm willing to get prices on various sizes and postthem.If there are any objections to this at all please let me know.Mauro. Please do list the stuff, I'll even put it on the web page if it looks good! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 17 17:59:22 1996 Subject: Re: rod building equipment I am in the process of acquiring the tools to build cane rods. Does any onehave or know of used equipment for sale. At this point I am looking for everything: planningforms, rod wrapper, old Stanley planes, heat treating oven, lathe, supplies. There are sources found in Wayne Cattanach¯s book and the Planing Form.Would any of you share your experiences with me as to the good and the bad. For instance, a rodbuilder told me about a particular planing form that is reasonably priced but not made to veryclose tolerances. He spent more time and money bringing things up to specs. Perhaps this is part ofthe learning curve but I am trying not to be penny wise and pound foolish. Many thanks, Phil from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 17 18:10:33 1996 Subject: Re: CaneRods@aol.com wrote: ne with AOL and this is my first contact with the Rodmakersmail. So who is out there and what is happening?Jon ParkerBallston Lake, NY Welcome Jon, from Jonathan Clarke. We met at the Roscoe gathering. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sun Mar 17 18:54:59 1996 Subject: Re: Hi Jonathan,Thanks for the welcome! Sure I remember you and I remember your binder. Jon from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Mar 18 09:52:11 1996 Subject: Taper of Leonard blank blank below.This is the diameter from flat to flat every 5 inches from tip to butt. My only reference are the tapers in Garrison/Carmichael which seem muchlessdramatic than the taper measurements that I have here. Do these seem correct or should I re-measure to confirm my abililty toread amicrometer correctly? Russ LavigneAnachemrpo@AOL.COM from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Mar 18 11:49:39 1996 Subject: Re: Taper of Leonard blank(with numbers) blank below. This is the diameter form flat to flat every 5 inches from tip to butt. My only reference is the tapers in Garrison/Carmichael which seem muchlessdramatic than the taper measurements that I have here. Do these seem correct or should I re-measure to confirm my ability toread amicrometer correctly? 0Ü .0625Ü .09410Ü .10515Ü .12320Ü .14125Ü .15330Ü .16135Ü .17039.5Ü .19240Ü Ferrule45Ü .19550Ü .21155Ü .21560Ü .22065Ü .24070Ü .30775Ü .36280Ü .385 Russell LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Mar 19 09:55:06 1996 Subject: rodbuilding Hey folks,is anyone out there who has an software-tool to calculate tapers. I try do develop a tool, but now the fishing season is starting in germany and iwant to end up with my first rod so i like to go fishing and not hacking on the pc. Thanks Hans Kohl for your hint for straightening a rod ! from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Mar 19 10:19:40 1996 Subject: Re: rodbuilding Hans,I have a Lotus worksheet that I can send you if you can tell me howto mail a non text file.Davidhood@fc.hp.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Mar 19 10:57:37 1996 Subject: Re: rodbuilding Hey folks,is anyone out there who has an software-tool to calculate tapers. I try dodevelop a tool, but now the fishing season is starting in germany and iwant toend up with my first rod so i like to go fishing and not hacking on the pc. Wayne Cattanach has a DOS version which comes with his book, and I amalmost finished with a Windows version which should be easier to use. You can find a list of them at: http://www.teleport.com/~gord/tapers.shtml Good luck on your first rod! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Mar 19 12:15:27 1996 Subject: Cane rod patent searches, asking for help. Hi. Is there anybody out there who lives near one of the US patentrepositories? If you do and you know what that means, please contactOlafBorg,"Borge, Olaf" or me. We'e like to have your help putting togethrer a bibliography ofrelevant cane rodmaking patents. We already have a nice list of numbers;weneed knowledgable rod-makers to read the patents and write abstracts ofthem. If you don't know how to do that, I'll teach you. Thanks. Frank from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Mar 19 18:02:30 1996 Subject: Re: Cane rod patent searches, asking for help. Hi. Is there anybody out there who lives near one of the US patentrepositories? If you do and you know what that means, please contactOlafBorg,"Borge, Olaf" or me. We'e like to have your help putting togethrer a bibliography ofrelevant cane rodmaking patents. We already have a nice list of numbers;weneed knowledgable rod-makers to read the patents and write abstracts ofthem. If you don't know how to do that, I'll teach you. Thanks. Frank I can do the reading and write the abstracts if you already have all thepatent numbers in hand. Are you sure they are all relevant numbers or isit just stuff from a class/subclass search which will have to be weededforcontent? Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Mar 19 22:24:47 1996 discussions of building nodeless, Hans Hoh's posting suggestedgrinding the splice bevel onto the strip sections. I located a source for a10" aluminum circular attachment to convert table saws into disksanders.The item is sold by Woodworker's Supply (1-800-645-9292); in cat # 117it islisted on pg 21 as item # 95-430. Hans recommended as coarse of asandingdisk as possible. The catalog lists 40, 60, 80, and 120 grits. Hans, whichwould be your grit of choice? Hope this helps someone.Best Regards, Richard Tyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 20 01:05:47 1996 Subject: Re: Bo,Have updated the pages, I would welcome your comments, Remenmberit's for the amature Regards, Darryl G. Trezise from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 20 01:21:19 1996 Subject: Home Page Hi,I'm a amature rod builder from Australia and are currently puttingtogether a home page on the craft of putting together a fishing rod, I'mtrying to cover as many topics as I can relating to building a fishing rod Iwould be gratefull if some of you fellow rod crafters would browse overthepages and give me an idea of what you want added to them or correct me ifIhave strayed off the track or not been clear in the subjects I haveincluded. Is there any other subjects you want added and if so suggestionswould be kindly received.The HHP is http://www.iconnect.net.au/~darrylt/darryl.html Regards, Darryl G. Trezise from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 20 06:50:00 1996 Subject: rodbuilding Hey Bruce,please can you attach the softwaretool to an emailand send it to me.No chance to get Wayneós book in germany. Thanks David for your message,but I donót have LOTUS available. Michael Brandt (Germany) from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 20 07:38:26 1996 Subject: First step(s). Hello, I've read the FAQ, other stuff in print and am ready to move from graphiterod building to bamboo rod making. Any advice from those of you fartherdown this path would be greatly appreciated. Should my questions orcontentbe out of line with this list please let me know. 1. I don't have time in the short-term to build and acquire more tools, andam considering a restoration or building from pre-made components as myfirst bamboo effort. Is this too much like the graphite building I'm usedto or a good exercise in working with different materials? 2. Are particular weights or lengths easier or more practical as a firsteffort? Thank you, and don't hesitate to flame this new member if my questions oropinions are out of character with this list. WJL from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 20 12:46:45 1996 Subject: Re: rodbuilding Hey Bruce,please can you attach the softwaretool to an emailand send it to me.No chance to get Wayne=A5s book in germany. I will be posting the program to the sirronald ftp site as soon as it isfinished. Might be about a week or so before it is ready. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 20 13:40:14 1996 Subject: Re: First step(s). 1. I don't have time in the short-term to build and acquire more tools, andam considering a restoration or building from pre-made components asmyfirst bamboo effort. Is this too much like the graphite building I'm usedto or a good exercise in working with different materials? I'm sure you will get differing opinions on this one! Building from apre-made blank will be essentially the same as building a graphite rod interms of skills and techniques. The only thing that will be different isthe varnishing and the fitting of the ferrules. If you think this is thebest way to get started,then go fo it! Take the time you need to collect up the tools for building from scratch.They aren't that expensive and you can make many things yourself. It's notas if there isn't another winter season coming where you will be trappedinthe house, right? :') Just do one thing at a time and soon you will haveall the stuff you need. 2. Are particular weights or lengths easier or more practical as a firsteffort?Don't try to build a 2 weight your first time out. Maybe a 6 weight wouldbe good, since you won't be making little tiny tips. Also, if you screw upand have to make it smaller, you can always make a 5 weight or a 4weight.And a 7 1/2 foot rod is a nice length IMHO. Thank you, and don't hesitate to flame this new member if my questionsoropinions are out of character with this list. We have to be the most civilised list in the history of the net! The onlyflame we have here is used to darken the cane! We are here to help eachother and exchange ideas and questions are always welcome. Good luck on your first rod, and welcome to the list! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 20 13:40:42 1996 Subject: Re: First step(s). Hello, I've read the FAQ, other stuff in print and am ready to move from graphiterod building to bamboo rod making. Any advice from those of you fartherdown this path would be greatly appreciated. Should my questions orcontentbe out of line with this list please let me know. 1. I don't have time in the short-term to build and acquire more tools, andam considering a restoration or building from pre-made components asmyfirst bamboo effort. Is this too much like the graphite building I'm usedto or a good exercise in working with different materials? 2. Are particular weights or lengths easier or more practical as a firsteffort? Thank you, and don't hesitate to flame this new member if my questionsoropinions are out of character with this list. WJL William; I have built alot of graphite/glass rods and refinished alot ofcane rods. The only great difference is the finish. If you want a newexperience you will have to go the building route. Best of luck. ClarkClark I.DavisZion- Benton High School3901 W. 23 rd. Street.Zion, IL. 60099847-746-1202 ext. 270c- davis@zbths.k12.il.us from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 21 07:06:08 1996 Subject: Re: First step(s). Hello William: A few suggestions that might be of help, based on what I would do now vswhatI did. When I got started, the plan was to get everything needed that couldbe possibly listed. As a result, after about a year of "getting started",new things to get kept popping up. If I had it to do again, would get thebasics, then start on a rod. Even if work stoppage for tools occured, Iwould have at least been that far along, and with added incentive. Also,some of the Garrison tapers have rather large zero station (tip top)dimensions which may be easier at first. Another statagy I used that is questionable: I picked a really gross culmandchose a three piece rod whose taper I designed using the Garrison method.The plan was to get as many of the elements encountered in the first rod.Ever hear of a rookie in his first game being the star of a super bowl? Thetaper was way too slow and the bamboo too difficult; not a stellarperformance and old no. one is a wall hanger. I saw written somewherethat aGarrison taper is the way to go for a first rod ( tho I've not yet built one)and is probably ok advice. Best RegardsRichard Tyree from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 21 07:20:47 1996 Subject: Bamboo reference nice discussion of Bamboo in the October 1980 issue of NATIONALGEOGRAPHIC.I found my copy at a Goodwill store. Check it out. There's a picture ofHoagy Carmichael planing a strip on page 524, along with some goodcloseups of a rod in process. Frank from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 21 09:57:57 1996 Subject: Re: Bamboo reference Luis Marden wrote the article for the NGS article - In a letter I recievedform Luis last week you will soon be able to see and read the rest of thestory - perhaps as early as mid summer. Luis is planning on attending thegettogether this June and has many, many stories from his career with NGS.Hestarted with them in 1934. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Mar 26 20:27:39 1996 Subject: Re: Fly lines for bamboo Have I missed something obvious? I have fished bamboo for a number ofyearsand have built bamboo for about just as long. The rods that were built forsilk lines had smaller diameter guides. The rods built today have guidesinstalled that are required for the newer larger in diameter plastic coatedlines. To my knowledge, there isn't any lines built specifically for bamboo.I use Cortland 444's, a friend uses Corland SL series, another SA Ultras. Itried Cortland Lazer lines. Sent 2 back with cracking problems.There isn't any question that quality silk lines will outcast any plasticline built todaySubject: Consignments Dear rodmakers: I was wondering if some of you knew the answers to the followingquestions: When selling a hand planed bamboo flyrod by consignment, whatpercentage does the builder typically get and what percentage does the store get? What price range do folks usually sell hand planed rods for? (When theyare starting out, but have good craftsman skills.) I am not getting into the craft for the money. I just am having a hard time selling the idea to my wife (~$500 for equipment) and I am looking for an avenue to get some money back to buy more materials.... Thanks! Paul Martino from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 27 17:31:11 1996 Subject: Finishes - Math Glishes - Silk line -etc -etc Looking across my basement I have a shelf full of finishing material ofall types and brands - from what I have found is this. Personally I willonlyuse two brands of finish for fly rods - The first is PPG (Pittsburgh Pant &Glass) - I use both their poly (77-5) high gloss and spar (77-10). Thesecondbrand is Epifanes Bootlak - Blank . This is a Dutch varnish used alot onwoodboats. I'm afraid that this is where I pull out the orange crate - there is avast world of difference in the quality (purity) of the readily availablefinishes some (minwax) are too thin out of the can others (Moore - Valsparand others) have been heated in the poly process and most will leachoxidesthat usually show up on the rod. I have shared this with several makersandmost were reluctant to use (PPG) because it is perhaps harder to find. Ifyouwould like referances they exist.A footnote to finishes. The clean air act of the 70's prompted finishmanufactures to change their formulations. So if you are using a finishbecause a classic maker of the 40- 60's used it. It isn't the same finish.A few days ago I was alerted to a (possible) math glish in Hex Rod. In anearly investigation indicates that the math is solid and that working todimensions to .001" all is well.Hex Rod was wrote some 11 years ago when I was first making rods. Atthetime I was using a 8088 and tested the math rather closely. Since thentherehave been several generations of computers come and go. I think that twothing have come to surface - today the numeric extension is far greaterandthere may be a different carry over and that if the input were carried outtoa greater degree that the results from the stress and dimensions could bebrought closer. But I have a hard enough time keeping the tolerances to.001"instead of .0000001". I hope that others will take a look at it and see ifthey agree or disagree. I've only been wrong once ------------- today.At times I often think that I should pay attention more often. I wasjust talking with Tom Moran (now back in England) he knows the fellow totalkwith about silk lines. from what I've heard is that you need to do a 16thread braid vs a 8 thread braid - that way you have better control of thetapers. Don Calcatara (Tuxedo Cane) might be another. If needed I can postaddresses. Wayne from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Mar 27 19:32:01 1996 Subject: Re: Finishes - Math Glishes - Silk line -etc -etc A few days ago I was alerted to a (possible) math glish in Hex Rod. Inanearly investigation indicates that the math is solid and that working todimensions to .001" all is well. I agree that .001 is all the accuracy that is needed. Since then therehave been several generations of computers come and go. I think that twothing have come to surface - today the numeric extension is far greaterandthere may be a different carry over and that if the input were carried outtoa greater degree that the results from the stress and dimensions could bebrought closer. But I have a hard enough time keeping the tolerances to.001"instead of .0000001". I hope that others will take a look at it and see ifthey agree or disagree. I propose the following test for hexrod so people can see what happens.Start with a stress of 200,000 at the tip and subtract 6000 for each 5inchstation for an 85 inch action length. Print out the result and then goback and enter the dimensions from the printout and have hexrod calculatethe stresses. You will find that the stresses do not mirror the stressesyou put in the first time. If you then enter THOSE stresses and calculatethe taper again, the taper changes (but only slightly) For all practicalpurposes, the math works fine, but with my windows program, peoplemight betempted to "loop" the results back and forth this way and get wonkyresults. A word to the wise! At times I often think that I should pay attention more often. I wasjust talking with Tom Moran (now back in England) he knows the fellow totalkwith about silk lines. from what I've heard is that you need to do a 16thread braid vs a 8 thread braid - that way you have better control of thetapers. Don Calcatara (Tuxedo Cane) might be another. If needed I can postaddresses. Yes, 16 thread was all anybody talked about. If you have the addresseshandy, please post them. I still don't have any exact number on whatdeiner yarns to use to make a given diameter line (assuming 16 yarns).Finding a source for the yarns (threads) is also proving to be difficult.I've been considering unspinning some Corticelli silks or maybe buildingthread out of floss. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 06:17:35 1996 Subject: Re: Consignments Hi PaulIf you decide to go that route you are the one who decides what you wantforyour rodthe person or store selling your rod will add their mark up to the price youwant. As for how much do you charge,That again is up to you. Go to a store thatsells bamboo rods look at the quality and workmanship and ask yourself ismywork as good or better than the rod you are looking at.Next check the priceand ask yourself what you can make that rod for? ex:Material + your time = costI don't want to discourage you but what about warrenty will you fix therodif it comes apart or an eye twists. hope this helps Geoffrey PlourdeAnglers choicefly-man@ra.isisnet.com Dear rodmakers: I was wondering if some of you knew the answers to the followingquestions: When selling a hand planed bamboo flyrod by consignment, whatpercentage does the builder typically get and what percentage does the store get? What price range do folks usually sell hand planed rods for? (When theyare starting out, but have good craftsman skills.) I am not getting into the craft for the money. I just am having a hardtime selling the idea to my wife (~$500 for equipment) and I am looking for an avenue to get some money back to buy more materials.... Thanks! Paul Martino from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 06:19:06 1996 Subject: Guides Hello,I'm putting together a graphite rod for my son (8 yrs old) and I'm trying single foot guides for the first time. I had a REAL hard time wrapping these boogers. With the tradition snakes I could tape one side to keep it from moving, but after several yards of wasted thread I just got frustrated and decided tonite's not the night. Before I try again, does anyone have any pointers?? Also, what are your thoughts regarding pros/cons of the single foot vs. snakes? Keep up the great work, Bruce!!!!TIATom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 07:00:21 1996 Subject: Re: Guides Dear Tom, I have just finished assembling an 11'3" graphite stealhead rodwith single foot guides. If you cut a thin (1/8") strip of masking tape youcan easily strap on the guide and leave sufficient of the foot tip bare tobegin the tie. Once you have covered the first third or so of the foot tipthe tape can be removed. It is important to always tie uphill so begin your tie on therod shaft move up over the foot and right up to the first bend in theguide. I suspect the advantage of the single foot guide is less stresson the rod at the attachment site, less interference with rod action andless stress on the binding itself. good luck!, Jim from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 07:28:47 1996 Subject: Re: Guides I suspect the advantage of the single foot guide is less stresson the rod at the attachment site, less interference with rod action andless stress on the binding itself. Yes, I recently did a rod with single foot guides and like all but the factthat they could be more easily broken (pulled out) while bush wacking. Atfirst I had some problems with the non-tradional look. I compared my work with a commercial rod with the same blank and feelit isa better working lighter weight rod. It is no doubt easier casting, andbetter at shooting line. -wjl- from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 07:35:16 1996 Subject: Re: Finishes - Math Glishes - Silk line -etc -etc Wayne, Thanks so much for your thoughts on rod finishes. I greatly value youropinion.Your insights with regards to revisions surrounding the clean air act areparticularly useful. Thanks for sharing your expereince so openly and generously. Best regards, Russ LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 08:44:54 1996 Subject: Re: Guides Thomas,Something I have done, is used a rubber band on the top part of the foot and started wraping the bottom, just like the tape method. Either method will work fine.Mauro. On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, Thomas W. Ausfeld wrote: Hello,I'm putting together a graphite rod for my son (8 yrs old) and I'm trying single foot guides for the first time. I had a REAL hard time wrapping these boogers. With the tradition snakes I could tape one side to keep it from moving, but after several yards of wasted thread I just got frustrated and decided tonite's not the night. Before I try again, does anyone have any pointers?? Also, what are your thoughts regarding pros/cons of the single foot vs. snakes? Keep up the great work, Bruce!!!!TIATom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 09:02:44 1996 Subject: Re: Guides At 07:12 AM 3/28/96 EST5EDT, you wrote:Hello,I'm putting together a graphite rod for my son (8 yrs old) and I'm trying single foot guides for the first time. I had a REAL hard time wrapping these boogers. With the tradition snakes I could tape one side to keep it from moving, but after several yards of wasted thread I just got frustrated and decided tonite's not the night. Before I try again, does anyone have any pointers?? Also, what are your thoughts regarding pros/cons of the single foot vs. snakes? Those things are hard to wrap aren't they! For my first attempt I usednarrow pieces of tape that I cut from a wider roll. The first few guidesgave me fits but it got easier as I went. The plus is that you only have tomake one wrap per guide, not two. Some have been other suggestions suchas: o Instead of cutting tape go to the auto supply store and buy the narrowtape that is sold for masking off pinstriping. o Super glue - Others said not to do this as you run the risk of damagingthe rod's finish. o Flex Coat makes a cement for sticking the guide to the blank. You heatthe foot with a lighter, rub the foot on the cement, and then place it onthe blank. I like to be able to adjust the guide after wrapping and I don'tif this product allows that. You might try calling Flex Coat at 512858-7742 and talking to Rodger. I believe that he is the Pres but, in anycase, he is very helpful and can give you good advice. Lots of luck,John Johnson from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 09:19:14 1996 Subject: Re: Guides Tom Ausfield writes: I had a REAL hard time wrapping theseboogers. With the tradition snakes Icould tape one side to keep it from moving,but after several yards of wasted thread I just got frustrated and decided tonite'snot the night. Before I try again, doesanyone have any pointers??(Omissions before and after.) I haven't tried single-foot guides, butcouldn't you just put a dab of hot-melt glueunder the foot to hold it in place whileyou begin the wrap? Silicone caulk mightalso work, but it's slower to set. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 09:39:47 1996 Subject: Re: Guides John Johnson Wrote:o Flex Coat makes a cement for sticking the guide to the blank. You heatthe foot with a lighter, rub the foot on the cement, and then place it onthe blank. I like to be able to adjust the guide after wrapping and I don'tif this product allows that. You might try calling Flex Coat at 512858-7742 and talking to Rodger. I believe that he is the Pres but, in anycase, he is very helpful and can give you good advice. I did call Rodger. Very nice fellow, I really enjoyed talking with him. He is pretty excited about this cement. As for adjusting guide after it is wrapped, very little. He states its probably more of a bending thing happening instead of actual guide movement (he calls this "tweeking"). He says that with a little practice you can get the guides where they belong and you can do the whole rod at once, sight down it, if any need moving, just pull them off and reheat and re-attach. Working time is approx. 15 secs. William Lorman talked (wrote) about guides being pulled out while bush whacking, I wonder if this will help strengthen it.??I tried the tape thing last night. My difficulties were probablycaused by the comet Hyukataki or something. I ordered some guide cement and report my findings. Anyone out there try this stuff?Thanks again all,Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 12:16:52 1996 Subject: Re: Guides Yes. Put the guide where you want it, then put a TINY drop of C/A(superglue)in the joint to hold it. DON'T put the tip of the glue bottle on thejoint. put a drop of the glue on the tip of a toothpick and then transferthe glue with the toothpick. Use the thin stuff, it's instant. Get it at ahobby shop. I use Goldberg's JET, or Altec's Super ST. Don't use theaccelerator, although the shop person will probably try to sell it to you.This stuff's dynamite, so practice first. Frank Armbruster from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 16:24:50 1996 Subject: Guides and Hotglue I use a type of hot-melt glue for tip-tops that happens to work very well with guide feet. I'm not sure of the brand name, as I have been using the same stick for the last 5 years and have long since discarded the packaging. It is brown in color and aprox. 1"w x 5"l x 1/4"thick. I have built a number of ultra and micro-light graphite rods, with very tiny blank diameters, and this product works great. I use a zippo lighter to gently heat up the guide foot, apply a very small amount of glue and set in place. Small adjustments can be made bycarefully heating the guide. I have found that when using masking tape for double foot snake guides, that the process of wrapping the guides can torque the guide out of alignment. This is not a problem with this hot-glue. One drawback to using hot glue is that soot is produced when the guide is heated. A cleaner heat source (hot soldering iron?) would fix the problem. Lloyd.Cross@Clorox.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 18:03:25 1996 Subject: My Rod Design Program I have just placed the file tapers.wk1 on sirronald.wustl.edu in thepub/rmdirectory. This is a Lotus 123 spreadsheet file based on Garrison's mathwith extensions for n-sided rods. This is a work in progress and while Ibelieve all the equations to be correct the layout and "user interface" issomewhat cryptic. The equations for Wayne's stress curves have not yetbeen developed and the numbers under that column have been manuallyenteredand only apply to whatever action length I was working on when I enteredthem.There are hidden numbers at the top of each stress column whichdeterminewhich column is used (normally a single column should be a 1 and allothers0; however, these can be combined in any ratio desired. The "used" columnshows the stress curve selected/calculated and the "derived" column isthestresses calculated should you manually enter a taper.Because of the circular nature of the calculations, manual recalculationis used and is envoked by pressing f9; this should be done until thenumbersno longer change.This spreadsheet was developed on Lotus123 but will work on the excellprogram that comes with Windows95 and I assume with other versions ofexcell.Let me know if you have any problems or questions. regards,Davidhood@fc.hp.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 20:06:48 1996 Subject: Re: An update on my doings Hello Bruce: Your comments about making silk lines were very interesting to me,especiallywhere you wrote: Sounds like the info I have been needing for the rehab of old silk lines. Ihave a question or two, though. Would you please elaborate on the"linseedoil and tung oil" comment? I presume this is a mix of the two, and if so,inwhat proportions? Because my lines are not devoid of the coating in thecore, it looks as tho this will be a good way to proceed. Also, from yourdiscussions, was there any info that might be a good clue as to whatmaterialto use for for cleaning the old lines? Do you see any reason to use or notuse naptha or mineral spirits? Any comments about this would begreatlyappreciated. Well, no one seems to be too specific, some call for only bioled linseedothers say a mix of tung and linseed. I'm pretty sure you could do a 50/50mix and it would work. As for cleaning the old lines, an alkali seems to be the best and safest.I wouldn't use naptha. Terje Tveras wrote the following back in February:------ -------------------------------------------------------------------------I have a paper here describing how to remove the stickiness of asilk line, written by Chris Partington, England. He writes: "Over a period of use a silk line would lose its original polish. When lefton a reel or whatever, warmth would make the oils in the line melt andflowout -- causing a stickiness which we know all too well. Several ways havebeen suggested to remove this stickiness, many of which do irreparabledamage to the silk. One of the most popular methods in Scotland involvesthe removal of the stickiness but the retaining of the dressing still inthe line. This is important as it is not possible to replace the dressing.(The Kingfisher factory took 3 to 4 months to dress a trout line, and 5 to6 months for a salmon line). Receipe: Put 1 cup ordinary garden lime into a full bucket of water. Put inthe line and leave to soak for 3 to 4 hours. Thoroughly rinse line in cleanwater and stretch out to dry. When dry, rub the entire length of line witha cloth of chamois -- really hard so that the heat generated will bring outthe remaining dressing. After rubbing line should be dry and smooth. If the dressing appears to have all gone, a receipe that appeared in theTrout and Salmon Magazine in June 1978 seems a good idea: Soak the lineinwarm linseed oil for 2 days. Remove and stretch in air on hot day. Leaveuntil tacky. Work a mixture of spar varnish and graphite powder(consistency of glue) into line using shamois. Allow to dry a few hoursuntil tacky, then finally polish with clean chamois until smooth and shiny.------------------------------------------ -----------------------------------Using the graphite doesn't seem like such a good idea if you want to haveyour line float well. I've heard of people using graphite to help the linesink, which is why I say this. You might have to really extend the limetreatment to get all the finish off. Hope this helps! Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 21:49:41 1996 Subject: Re: Guides Tom, What I tried and it works fine is to get a supply of orthidontal( not sureon spelling) elastics from your dentist ( they are little rubbber bandsabout 1/4" OD. Roll one elastic down the blank for each guide to beinstalled. You will have to put up to three turns in each one as you installthem to get them tight enough. Roll an elastic over each guide when theguide is at the tie in point. Insert your guide under the elastic or thebest way is to roll the elastic up the guide foot until the elastic isnearly to the furtherest point along the guide foot. (Sliding the guidealong the blank will occasionally result in a scratch in the rodsurface.)Start your thread as normal up the foot of the guide and when youget just short of the elastic, touch it with a razor blade. It disappears towho knows where and you finish the wrap.Done a bunch of rods like that and am satisfied. The best part is no glue from the masking tape left on the blank when you remove it.The elastics work great for testing the rod guide spacing also. Best of luck, Don Andersen Hello,I'm putting together a graphite rod for my son (8 yrs old) and I'm trying single foot guides for the first time. I had a REAL hard time wrapping these boogers. With the tradition snakes I could tape one side to keep it from moving, but after several yards of wasted thread I just got frustrated and decided tonite's not the night. Before I try again, does anyone have any pointers?? Also, what are your thoughts regarding pros/cons of the single foot vs. snakes? Keep up the great work, Bruce!!!!TIATom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Mar 28 22:15:18 1996 Subject: Re: Guides and Hotglue ""I use a zippo lighter to gently heat up the guide foot, apply a very small amount of glue"" I never though of using hot glue to slow a guide down...does it work on thefast talkers too?Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 00:37:44 1996 Subject: Re: Guides Date: Thu, 28 Mar 1996 07:12:14 EST5EDT From: "Thomas W. Ausfeld" Subject: Guides Hello,I'm putting together a graphite rod for my son (8 yrs old) and I'm trying single foot guides for the first time. I had a REAL hard time wrapping these boogers. With the tradition snakes I could tape one side to keep it from moving, but after several yards of wasted thread I just got frustrated and decided tonite's not the night. Before I try again, does anyone have any pointers?? Also, what are your thoughts regarding pros/cons of the single foot vs. snakes? Keep up the great work, Bruce!!!!TIATom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson I have obtained a supply of 1/8" masking tape, which is thin enough to go over the foot just between the center point of the foot and the guide frame. If you wrap the tape on fairly tight, the foot will not move around, and as you approach the center of the foot with your thread wrap, you may remove the tape, and there should be enough tension on the foot to keep it in place. This thin masking tape is available from auto body supply shops, or you may lay a wider piece of tape on a flat object and use a sharp razor blade to cut your own strips.Ian ScottWishbone Custom Rods2 Henry St., RR 1Grand Valley, Ont.wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "Bad habits are easy to form, but hard to live with.Good habits are hard to form, but easy to live with."Anon. from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 01:17:54 1996 Subject: first contact Hi you all! Could you please send me a reply if this message reaches you!!I live in Finland and I would be very eager to try building a bamboo flyrod. I have a few problems, though.First, I do not know how/ from where to get tonkin bamboo. So if anyoneknows a good bamboo source in Finland, or maybe in scandinavia, please let me know.Another thing is the price of the bamboo. How expensive it might be? Iwould like to know this because I want to avoid paying extra for it. Well, I guess this is all for now. Again, if anyone gets this message, throw me a reply. Regards,Seppo Karkkainen from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 02:28:11 1996 Subject: Re: first contact Hi you all! Could you please send me a reply if this message reaches you!!I live in Finland and I would be very eager to try building a bamboo flyrod.I have a few problems, though.First, I do not know how/ from where to get tonkin bamboo. So if anyoneknowsa good bamboo source in Finland, or maybe in scandinavia, please let meknow.Another thing is the price of the bamboo. How expensive it might be? Iwouldlike to know this because I want to avoid paying extra for it. Well, I guess this is all for now. Again, if anyone gets this message,throwme a reply. Hello! Yes, your posting made it to the list. I don't know of any suppliers ofTonkin in your area, but there are some poeple on the list who are near youand should know. I'm sure you will be hearing from them. (I'd like toknow too so I can put it in the FAQ) Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 06:53:04 1996 Subject: re: seppo first contact Hello, I knew a rodmaker in denmark who sells bamboo.But i have to look in my papers at home,you will hear from me after weekend. english) from my professional rod builder for 20 DM is about 13US$. Michael Brandt (Germany) from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 09:07:06 1996 Subject: Re: Guides Tom: Two possible solutions for holding single foot guides in place: 1) Surgical tubing, cut into thin widths. (About 75 cents a ft. at medical supply companies.) 2) Rubber O-rings, available at most mom 'n pop hardware stores for about 35 cents each. BTW, the use of single foot guides came up on the FF@ list several months ago. My reading of the opinions of many contributors is that single foot guides do not decrease the weight nor increase the flexibility of the rod. Regards, Jerry Donovan from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 09:24:09 1996 Subject: Re: Guides Hello,I'm putting together a graphite rod for my son (8 yrs old) and I'm tryingsingle foot guides for the first time. I had a REAL hard timewrapping these boogers. With the tradition snakes I could tape oneside to keep it from moving, but after several yards of wasted threadI just got frustrated and decided tonite's not the night. Before Itry again, does anyone have any pointers?? Also, what are yourthoughts regarding pros/cons of the single foot vs. snakes? I have tried all kinds of glues and things, but I strongly recommend justusing thin strips of tape or surgical tubing/rubber bands to hold the guidein place while wrapping the first part of the guide foot, then removing thefixation and continuing the wrap up th foot of the guide. That is because Ican never get the guides straight at firs attempt! Even if I very carefullyalign the guide with the tiptop it will invariably be out of angle when thewrap is done, sometimes up to 30 degrees. I suspect that I have a very badeye for this, but also that the thread drags the guide out of line whilethe wrap is being done. Anyway, the guide WILL NOT be in line when I havefinished wrapping, and I NEED to be able to adjust it.As for pros/cons of single foot guides, I have used these as long as I havebeen building rods (17 years) and I will always prefer a single-foot to asnake. Not so much because of the effect on action or stress, but becausethe guide is higher and keeps the line away from the blank in the backwardpart of the cast. Using snakes, the line will drag against the blank in thebackcast, and I can never get it to slide as I want it to do when Idouble-haul, With a single foot guide, I get a lot less contact between theblank and the line, which means to me a successfull double-haul andconsequently, the distance that I can shoot the line increases.As for solving the problem of guides slipping out of the wrap, try thesesuggestions:Wrap a first layer of thread directly on the blank before attaching theguide. Then fix the guide in place with a second wrap, over the first. Thefriction between the guide foot and what=B4s under it increases and thefinish will seep in under the foot and glue it to the thread/blank underit.Continue the guide wrap 3-5 turns on the other side of the guide foot, pastthe part of the guide frame that goes up to the ceramic ring. This willform a low "hump" in the opening of the channel that the wrap forms, andthis hump will stop the guide foot from sliding out. regards Bosse (Custom Cane)(Bo.Wessman@samskola.danderyd.se) from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 11:21:44 1996 Subject: Re: Guides I can second what Don says about using orthodontic elastics. He told me about this trick last year and it works very well. There is one problem, and that is getting the elastics. If you know your dentist well, then he can probably supply them. But if you are not well acquainted with a dentist (as I not, as I try to avoid them), then you may have problems getting them from a dental supply company. When you ask about them they will probably act as if they have never heard of them. After phoning several and talking to another half dozen orthodontist clinics, I finally found one that was willing to give me some. The reason why they are so reluctant is that printed on the envelope is the message that they are for sale to licensed orthodontists ONLY. So these elastics are like a prescription item. But they do a great job, so it's worthwhile to cultivate a relationship with a fishing dentist/orthodontist. Michael MICHAEL DELL email: mdell@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca On Thu, 28 Mar 1996, Don Andersen wrote: Tom, What I tried and it works fine is to get a supply of orthidontal( not sureon spelling) elastics from your dentist ( they are little rubbber bandsabout 1/4" OD. Roll one elastic down the blank for each guide to beinstalled. You will have to put up to three turns in each one as you installthem to get them tight enough. Roll an elastic over each guide when theguide is at the tie in point. Insert your guide under the elastic or thebest way is to roll the elastic up the guide foot until the elastic isnearly to the furtherest point along the guide foot. (Sliding the guidealong the blank will occasionally result in a scratch in the rodsurface.)Start your thread as normal up the foot of the guide and whenyouget just short of the elastic, touch it with a razor blade. It disappears towho knows where and you finish the wrap.Done a bunch of rods like that and am satisfied. The best part is no glue from the masking tape left on the blank when you remove it.The elastics work great for testing the rod guide spacing also. Best of luck, Don Andersen from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 11:49:06 1996 Subject: Jerry Foster your mail bounced Apologies to the rest of the list, I've been trying to geta message to Jerry Foster, and the message bounced. Jerry,This is what I got back with just hitting the reply key.If this isn't your address, send me your complete newaddress. ----- Recipients of this delivery -----Bounced, cannot deliver: Darryl Hayashidadnh@chevron.com from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 13:38:17 1996 Subject: re: lotus 1-2-3 Spreadsheet Hello, I pretested the spreadsheet with EXCEL for Windows 3.1.It works fine, but you have to switch the option "ITERATIONS" to on.(Menu: EXTRAS, OPTIONS, CALCULATIONS, ITERATION) More testing against Wayneós prog will follow. Best Regards Michael Brandt (Germany) from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 14:28:53 1996 Subject: finishes etc. Thanks for the info, Wayne! Short of driving to Pittsburgh, where mighta builder get Pittsburgh Paint and Glass products? - Grayson from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 15:06:32 1996 Subject: Archives and Administrivia Well folks, the 'official' word just came down from thepowers to be regarding sirronald.wustl.edu - the currenthome of the RODMAKERS archives. The machine will be shutdown on June 30th. Currently in the archives, there is a wealth of informationthat is free for the taking. I'd sure hate to see theresource lost. If there is anyone out there with a machine that might besuitable for the RODMAKERS archives, please let me know.We don't have a whole lot of time left. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note) The last strip of a 6ft. 6in. 4wt will be planed this evening.Hopefully gluing this weekend... Mike BiondoRodmakers Listguy from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 29 17:56:51 1996 Subject: Re: Guides and Hotglue Lloyd Try using your heat gun as a flameless heat source - Iuse mine for this purpose - no soot. Chris Chris