from HADN@chevron.com Tue Jul 9 10:40:06 1996 SMTP id KAA19062 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 199610:40:05 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 9 Jul 1996 08:40:01 -0700 Tue, 9 Jul 1996 08:40:01 -0700 Subject: Setting Gauge - Was: Milward Binder 4.0.838.14Encoding: 15 TEXT If I zero my dial gauge on a flat surface and use it toset my planing form, the splines end up being about .005 too large. This is caused by having broke a little bit of the tip off - get a newtip orperhaps one of the setting gauges mentioned here earlier. I know thatafterseveral years of stubbornness I am make a setting gauge. Wayne I thought about that... The tip is sharp, and is at 60 degrees.How do you make a setting gauge? Darryl from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Jul 9 11:00:53 1996 with SMTP id LAA20574 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 11:00:52 -0500 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 12:02:00 -0400 Subject: Taper # 3 Here is the 3d taperF E Thomas 7-6, 3-pc, 4-wt Station Tip # 1 Tip # 21-1/2 058-060-062 066-066-0676 073-071-073 077-078-07610 081-083-087 088-089-08815 106-108-108 107- 106-10620 122-122-124 120-120-12125-1/2 138- 134-135 138-137-138 28-1/2 136-137-138 139-140-140 Mid Butt32-1/2 154-153-150 62 209- 212-21135 159-157-157 65 222-222-22340 165-165-163 70 235-242-23844 174-176-173 75 260-253-25750 189-189-187 76 266-267- 26055 198-202-199 77 278-273-27857-1/2 203-202-206 78-1/4 305-301-30479-7/8 330-336-335 Guides: Tips 5-1/4; 11-1/8; 17-3/4; 24-7/8;Mid 31-1/4; 37-3/4; 44-5/8; 52-3/4Butt 63 NOTE: In the case of the three rod tapers sent, the guide spacing is given WITH THE ROD JOINED !! Varnish estimate: 002 to 004 per strip - 004 to 008 total acrossflats Again, thanks to Dennis for these tapers. Regards,RTyree from HADN@chevron.com Tue Jul 9 11:06:32 1996 SMTP id LAA21006 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 199611:06:30 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 9 Jul 1996 09:06:27 -0700 Tue, 9 Jul 1996 09:06:27 -0700 Subject: List Members currently making rods 4.0.838.14Encoding: 14 TEXT The posts for "What are you working on?" have dieddown, and the results are 5 people are currentlymaking new rods, and 1 person is doing a restoration. The professional rodmakers on the list are makingquite a few concurrently, one guy is making a matchedpair, and one guy is making 5 at once. I'm sure we have more than this, we just haven't heard from some of the lurkers out there. Come on! Time tounlurk! Let's here from you! Darryl Hayashida from maiello@yorku.ca Tue Jul 9 11:59:11 1996 with SMTP id LAA24245 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 11:59:09 -0500 (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA09876 for; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 12:59:08 - 0400 doing -bs Subject: Re: Milward Binder Hi there. I dont trust my micing on the strips, or the setting of my forms.It depends on how picky you want to be, but the best way to do themeasurement before gluing is to wrap up the rod without glue, and micacross the flats. If one spot is too big, but all three flats mic thesame, take off just a bit (like 0.0002") with a scraper. I did my firstrod this way, and got within 1 thou. on all the dimensions, and the acrossflats were also within 1 thou. It took me a LOOOONNNNNGGGG time, but Iwas very picky, and there is not even a hint of a glue line anywhere. Ifound that my dimensions were bigger when wraped than when I miced thestrips. Also, I flattened the enamel side before measuring. The curvewill change the across flats dimension (of course).I certainly wont be so picky on #2. Just my 0.02 Mauro On Mon, 8 Jul 1996, Michael Biondo wrote: Jim seez... Just finished my first rod. Waynes 7' 4wt. I am very please andpleasantly surprised with the results. However somehow I seemed togainapproximately 5% thickness when I glued the strips. A local buildersaidhe suspect my miward design binder was not applying the thread withenoughpressure. Is this a possible source of the increase in deminsions? How are your glue lines Jim? I would guess that if the increase indimensions is indeed a product of not enough binder tension, you wouldsee some noticable glue lines. Another possiblity might be the measuring of the splines prior togluing. If excess pressure was exerted by the caliper when measuring,the apex of the triangle may have been slightly crushed, rendering ameasurement slighly less than actual. However when glued up, and measured across the flats, it true dimension would be revealed aslarger than expected. Mike - always slightly in excess - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 9 12:30:06 1996 with SMTP id MAA26228 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 12:30:05 -0500 dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA08351 for; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 10:30:02 -0700 Organization: Bohls Financial Services Subject: Re: List Members currently making rods Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: The posts for "What are you working on?" have dieddown, and the results are 5 people are currentlymaking new rods, and 1 person is doing a restoration. The professional rodmakers on the list are makingquite a few concurrently, one guy is making a matchedpair, and one guy is making 5 at once. I'm sure we have more than this, we just haven't heard from some of the lurkers out there. Come on! Time tounlurk! Let's here from you! Darryl Hayashida I've been a bit intimidated by the discussions from the list members,being new to cane. I've been "building" glass and graphite - mostly spinning early on --fly now -- for ~45 years. Just for myself but a few fly rods for others. Iwas able to buy 2 of Alvin Groves' rods from his brother and that has wetted myappitite rebuilding. Actual restoration is not appropriate here. I also discoveredtwo old Herter's glass blanks that I built many years ago that I am redoing. One of the 'Grove' rods does need to be resored -- an Orvis kit rod with loosewraps, a loose ferrell and some other problems that need correcting. I'mattempting to bring that back to as original as I can. Finally, I have a Leonard blank to build. Hope at some time to actually build my own bamboo -- several of myfriends here in the Cumberland Valley have the same interest. The recent list ing of the equipment was of major interest but I just couldn' swing it at this time. Ihave talked to George Maurer on several occasions and, along with reading bothWayne's book, the Kirkfield book, Garrison, and others, and the talk on this list, I'm getting quite an education. Maybe at some point I'll even be able to make a contribution that makes sense. So, at this time I've got six rods in some sort of construction -- muchmore than I've ever had. Most I've built in any one year has been 9. At any rate -- thanks for the education !!! Fred Bohls from HADN@chevron.com Tue Jul 9 13:03:33 1996 SMTP id NAA29337 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 199613:03:31 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 9 Jul 1996 11:03:28 -0700 Tue, 9 Jul 1996 11:03:28 -0700 Subject: RE: List Members currently making rods 4.0.838.14Encoding: 36 TEXT Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote:I'm sure we have more than this, we just haven't heard from some of the lurkers out there. Come on! Time tounlurk! Let's here from you!^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Sorry about the spelling error..... I've been a bit intimidated by the discussions from the list members,being new to cane. No need to feel intimidated. I have yet to see a flame on this list, andI never would have gotten started if it wasn't for the answers I got from the experienced members of this list. from what I've seeneveryone is happy to help out a beginner. Hope at some time to actually build my own bamboo -- several of myfriends here in the Cumberland Valley have the same interest. The recent list ing ofthe equipment was of major interest but I just couldn' swing it at thistime. It doesn't have to be that expensive. My total cost for tools andeverythingelse to get started was $700, but I bought the steel planing form, an electronic heat gun, and a Lie Neilson scraper. If you make your ownplaning form out of wood I think you could get started for less than$400 Darryl Hayashida from crocm@netaxis.com Tue Jul 9 13:14:26 1996 with ESMTP id NAA00332 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 13:14:24 -0500 OAA00761 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:16:31 - Subject: Re: List Members currently making rods At 09:06 AM 7/9/96 -0700, you wrote: The posts for "What are you working on?" have dieddown, ....Snip....Come on! Time to unlurk! Let's here from you! Darryl Hayashida Sorry for the delayed response, I have been busy both making and fishing afew rods. Just completed a pair of 6' #3's to Wayne's tapers one two piece, the otherthree piece. The blank for a 7'6" #5 is finished, waiting for the ferrule and hardware. of 0.003/in, I had a piece of cane I didn't know what do with. I will start splitting a 9'6" #8 three piece in the morning for Salmon andlight salt water. Going to use Chris Bogart's Big Dog Rod Taper slightlymodified. Then I want to build a boat rod, for albacore, shark, big blue's andstrippers, looking to use double-build construction. I have only found onetaper for a rod made by South Bend Company. I could use some help andadvice. Ed Muraskihttp://www.netaxis.com/~crocm from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Tue Jul 9 13:22:37 1996 with SMTP id NAA00630 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 13:22:34 -0500 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA16343 for; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:22:32 -0400 Tue, 9 Jul 96 13:59:03 EST5EDT EST5EDT Tue, 9 Jul 96 13:58:50 EST5EDT Subject: Re: List Members currently making rodsPriority: normal Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote:I'm sure we have more than this, we just haven't heard from some of the lurkers out there. Come on! Time tounlurk! Let's here from you! OK, OK, OK .... In between trying to fill up my kegs with homebrew, emptying my kegs of homebrew, fishing, filling up my flyboxes,and being an active member of my family, I'm currently re-doing a Heddon rod that I recently bought and subsequently broke. Two tips from Dick Spurr should arrive shortly. On the bamboo front, its been slow going. The forms, ala Bruce Connor are complete, binder - check, rough forms - check, plane -check, measuring devices - check, time - uh ... ummm.....well almost all set. Did perform some splitting tho, big thanks to RTyree, your advice worked great. A big thanks to all, this is the most informative and friendly list going. I promise in the future to be more vocal, er, uh well you know what I mean. laterTom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from patrick@cyberport.com Tue Jul 9 13:57:20 1996 ESMTP id NAA02665 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 199613:57:18 -0500 cyberport.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA24043 for Organization: Bears Choice Honey Subject: Bamboo ...Unlurk...Delurk...Lurk off...whatever...OK you guys have done it, I think I'm finally ready to build bamboo. I got rodbuilding books years ago, thought about it, put it aside,...thought some more, got some tools, put it aside, thought about it some more and...now I am ready to get started (well, in three weeks after I get back from vacation, and after I do another batch of homebrew, and after I harvest the late summer honey crop...then I will be ready to get started.) But, I need one important item, Bamboo. I live in Northwest New Mexico but could drive to Albuquerque, Denver, or Salt Lake to pick up a shipment so, does anyone out there have a recommendation about a good supplier of culms, preferably in the Rockies, or western US (to keep postage down).Rather than clutter up the list with what is probably old news to most of you, private email responses are welcome. thanks to the collective wisdom, Patrick M. O'HearnBears Choice HoneyAztec, New Mexicoemail patrick@cyberport.com "Sharp ears are tuned in to the drones and chanters warming.Mist blowing round some headland, somewhere in your memory.Everyone is from somewhere ---even if you've never been there.".....Ian Anderson from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Jul 9 14:27:25 1996 OAA04813 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:27:20 -0500 Subject: Re: List Members currently making rods Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: The posts for "What are you working on?" have dieddown, and the results are 5 people are currentlymaking new rods, and 1 person is doing a restoration. The professional rodmakers on the list are makingquite a few concurrently, one guy is making a matchedpair, and one guy is making 5 at once. I'm sure we have more than this, we just haven't heard from some of the lurkers out there. Come on! Time tounlurk! Let's here from you! Darryl Hayashida Darryl et al: I lost my server about a month ago and have just as of today gotten back here. My apologies to those of you who may have been waiting for casting rod tapers. I promise I'll get some together soon.Since I do not have your original message, I can only guess at what you wanted. Anyway currently I have under way3 Horrocks and Ibbotson and 1 South Bend to renovate. all sound rods except for ferrule use and varnish and wraps.1 butt section for one of Wayne's 7' 2 piece tapers that one of my students destroyed while turning the handle. (He can't get back here to do it himself, although he is capable,)Teaching 1 16 year old grandson to build the same Catannach 7'He has finished planing his tip now working on the butt sectionTeaching 1 11 year old grandaughter to do the same.She is just beginning..Just finished a replacement tip to one of my 7'6" rods I sold a couple of years ago. Still waiting for a ferrule.Building a replacement tip for my own 6' 4wt taper. I found that the rod did not have enough rigidity to stop my 200+ lbs when I fell backward off our four foot deck and broke 5 ribs.I am doing some planning on some greenheart rods. I was fortunate enough to get some good greenheart some time ago and I have a few old greenhearts that need replacment of sections, then I hope to be able to build one somewhere in the 12-15' range for myself. The trouble is, I still get a sick feeling when I think of cutting that beautiful wood. I just finished last fall a 7' one piece, spiral rod. I truly think that it is the most difficult rod I have ever built. As you may be aware, post glue straightening is virtually impossible if the spiral is to remain true. That means gluing up about 8' of willowy whisps absolutely straight before the glue tacks up. Try it! Maybe I'll just sit back this summer and build me a couple of rods. It's good to be back. I have missed all the chatter and all of the good Ralph W. Moon from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Jul 9 14:43:34 1996 with ESMTP id OAA06248 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 14:43:31 -0500 OAA02303 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:43:30 - Subject: RE: List Members Currently Making Rods My name is Frank and I'm a rodbuilder... Well, I'm trying anyway. I'm working on my second cane rod(my first is locked in the attic with other grotesque familysecrets). I'm aiming at Wayne's 7'0" 4wt taper since it came highly recommended on this group. The final planing on the butt section was almost done when I decided to see how far a strip would bend without breaking and found it was just a little less than I thought. My goal is to have it done beforethe end of our trout season (Sept 30). Currently work is stalled as I promised my wife a cherry writing desk for ouranniversary. To Patrick O'Hearn: My mother's maiden name is O'Hearn; maybeyour some distant cousin or something. Any relatives in westernWisconsin? I have a distant relation on my father's side whois/was a guide for Kaufmann's (Randall Stetzer). So far, he hasn't invited my out to go fishing.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterInformation and Media Technologies than a waterproof coat and a Univ Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from jonrc@atlantic.net Tue Jul 9 15:23:35 1996 ESMTP id PAA09569 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 199615:23:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Setting Gauge - Was: Milward Binder I should get a stander to set my forms with. But when I set the forms I don't rely on the gauge I use except to do the first setting. I then plane one of the splines close to the form and rest it using the first spline as a gauge. I adjust until it's just right and check each spline every few inches as a get to the final taper. I also use a Milward binder design and like it because it doesn't tent to twist the blank as it is glued. The tension can be increased to a fairly hi level if needed, remembering that there are 4 threads under tension as the blank goes through. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and time again. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running the length of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mystery below the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from jonrc@atlantic.net Tue Jul 9 15:25:19 1996 ESMTP id PAA09688 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 199615:25:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Grayling Gathering '97 I've been watching the thread on this topic with interest, and have not posted, partly because I have not been to the Grayling Gathering. I've been there is spirit and hope to make it next year. I did make the Roscoe Gathering last September, despite my daughter wedding an the same weekend. Though it is not as catchy and clever as the previous posts I like the "The Bamboo Rodmakers Gathering at Grayling". The term "Gathering"seems to be well suited to this kind of event and suggests to me people coming together for a common interest. It also suggests something that is not to structured, as it seem these events have a life of their own. To further my cause, I will quote from the "New Merriam-Webster Packet Dictionary" "Gathering: to bring together, pick harvest, to pick up little by little, to gain or win by gradual increase, to summon up, guess, deduce, infer, to swell out and fill with pus." This seems to describe these rodmaker events and bamboo rod making in general The quote, though a real quote, is meant to be humorous, but my suggestion stands at "The Bamboo Rodmakers Gathering at Grayling" -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and time again. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running the length of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mystery below the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from KilchsGray@aol.com Tue Jul 9 15:52:20 1996 with SMTP id PAA11744 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 15:52:17 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 16:53:22 -0400 Subject: Timber rods (was Listmem...) In a message dated 96-07-09 15:33:27 EDT, you write: I am doing some planning on some greenheart rods. I was fortunate enough to get some good greenheart some time ago and I have a few old greenhearts that need replacment of sections, then I hope to be able to build one somewhere in the 12-15' range for myself. The trouble is, I still get a sick feeling when I think of cutting that beautiful wood. Dear Mr. Moon, et al, My "rodbuilding" so far is limited to wrapping one cane rod on aPartridge blank, but I am deeply interested in two-handers and solid woodrods. Any inf re: finding greenheart, washaba, dagama, lancewood, or otherrodbuilding woods would be very much appreciated. If this is too far offtopic for the List, please email.More to the topic: has anyone tried to do a cane rod with spliced joints? --Roger Wiggin from KilchsGray@aol.com Tue Jul 9 15:52:25 1996 with SMTP id PAA11754 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 15:52:22 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 16:53:20 -0400 Subject: Re: List Members Currently Making Rods In a message dated 96-07-09 15:49:16 EDT, you write: I have a distant relation on my father's side whois/was a guide for Kaufmann's (Randall Stetzer). So far, he hasn't invited my out to go fishing... Dear Frank, Several years ago, Randy Stetzer was my instructor in a speycastingclass at Kaufmann's. He impressed me as a fine teacher and a nice guy.Maybe you should contact him. --Roger Wiggin from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jul 9 16:14:25 1996 -0500 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA270706863; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 14:14:23 -0700 Subject: re: List Members currently making rods I'm currently working on convincing my spouse that I need to purchase rodmaking equipment so I can give it a try. I would appreciate any tips on "spouse convincing" that some of you pro's out there on the list could provide. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from LANE@dsa.unt.edu Tue Jul 9 16:44:29 1996 with ESMTP id QAA17425 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 16:44:25 -0500 mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA16034 for Tue, 9 Jul 96 16:44:22 -600 600 Subject: Re: Name, Grayling Gathering '97Priority: normal I hate to do this again, but I can't help it. My Throazine has worn off... and I need a vacation!:-) We can call it the B.G.'s (aka BeeGees).....stands for BamBoo Grayling Gathering (BB-GG's)Tim, feather for brains, Lane--------------------------------- ------------------------------------ I've been watching the thread on this topic with interest, and have not posted, partly because I have not been to the Grayling Gathering. I've been there is spirit and hope to make it next year. I did make the Roscoe Gathering last September, despite my daughter wedding an the same weekend. Though it is not as catchy and clever as the previous posts I like the "The Bamboo Rodmakers Gathering at Grayling". The term "Gathering" seems to be well suited to this kind of event and suggests to me people coming together for a common interest. Good Idea: The quote, though a real quote, is meant to be humorous, but my suggestion stands at "The Bamboo Rodmakers Gathering at Grayling"Says Johnathan..... from HADN@chevron.com Tue Jul 9 18:16:15 1996 SMTP id SAA00453 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 199618:16:14 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 9 Jul 1996 16:16:13 -0700 Tue, 9 Jul 1996 16:16:13 -0700 Tue, 9 Jul 1996 16:16:13 -0700 Subject: RE: List Members currently making rods 4.0.838.14Encoding: 23 TEXT I'm currently working on convincing my spouse that I need to purchase rodmaking equipment so I can give it a try. I would appreciate anytips on "spouse convincing" that some of you pro's out there on the list could provide. Thanks in advance for your assistance. My spouse just chalked it up to me having my mid-lifecrisis, and said it was better than me having anaffair with a younger woman, or buying a littlered sports car. It also keeps me home in theevening and on weekends. Rod making tools can be cheaper than buying onecane rod, and if you continue and make yourselftwo or three, you have saved a lot of money overbuying two or three new cane rods. If you get goodat it you can sell cane rods to friends and make allthe money you spent on tools back again plus more.But, I wouldn't count on that happening for at leasta year. Darryl Hayashida from wishbone@headwaters.com Tue Jul 9 18:16:37 1996 SMTP id SAA00458 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 199618:16:31 -0500 ns1.bellglobal.com (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA21946 for; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:05:56 -0400 (5.65/1.1.8.2/12Aug95-0226PM) Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Spouse Convincing (Was re list members currently...) Priority: normal Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 14:10:07 PDT From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Subject: re: List Members currently making rods I'm currently working on convincing my spouse that I need to purchase rodmaking equipment so I can give it a try. I would appreciate any tipson "spouse convincing" that some of you pro's out there on the list could provide. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu 1. Tell her the rod is for her to use, and will be an extensive labour of love. 2. Buy her a new sewing machine and tell her you will need her help 3. The time and expense invested will pay off in "absence makes the heart grow fonder." 4. Promise her some additional income when your rods become famous. 5. Promise that you will give her much credit so that if your rods do become classics, she will have a place in history. 6. Lie to her about the cost. Good Luck, hahahahahaIan ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jul 9 18:17:33 1996 -0500 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA004859654; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 15:00:54 -0700 Subject: re: Re: Ferrule glue If the ferr-l-tite referred to on the list is the hot melt stick, I use it to affix broadheads and field points to cedar arrows. I've also used it on ferrules, but have no idea how it works in the long run in comparison to other glues since my experience is limited. You have to heat it with atorch etc., dob some onto the area and affix the ferrule. One advantage, again if this is the same stuff I've used, is that you can heat it up and it will soften for broadhead or ferrule removal. Overall my impression is that the stuff works best on a rough surface where it can enter pores and get agood grip. I've had some instances where points have pulled off in hay bales,and I attributed this to lack of enough glue or a smooth surface. Since bamboo ferrule areas are smooth, it seems there may be a problem with ferrules pulling off? Anyway, if this isn't the same glue referred to then disregard this. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 9 18:45:51 1996 with SMTP id SAA02784 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 18:45:49 -0500 dfw-ix10.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA23542 for; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 15:15:51 -0700 Organization: Bohls Financial Services Subject: Re: List Members currently making rods CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I'm currently working on convincing my spouse that I need to purchaserodmaking equipment so I can give it a try. I would appreciate any tipson"spouse convincing" that some of you pro's out there on the list couldprovide. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu I can say "HELP" to that as well !!!!! Fred from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jul 9 18:54:50 1996 with SMTP id SAA03094 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 18:54:49 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 19:55:49 -0400 Subject: Spousal Verbiage Mac -Many of us have gone about getting into rod making in different ways - Iam a staunch DYI type - and even though I spent a year and a half to finishmy first rod the initial cost was only about $60.00 - I hand madepracticallyeverything -since then bamboo rod making has become something wellbeyond thehobby that I still call it - I have actually made a couple of buck at it. Theexpense becomes individual and only you know if it can fit into the budgetornot and at what rate. Eventually it won't be the economics of it that the wife will learn tohate (or like) - bamboo rod making , like anything enjoyable, can be timeconsuming. You will learn to listen to more music and watch less tv -don'tbuy just one stool for the workbench buy two (a his and hers). As for convincing phrases - It's only a couple of payments on a bass boat- I could MAKE that rod that you were going to buy me for a (choose event)gift - the other guys wives are letting them do it. Don't look past whining. Wayne from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Tue Jul 9 20:01:45 1996 with SMTP id UAA07522 for ; Tue, 9 Jul1996 20:01:43 -0500 dfw-ix9.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA02151 for; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 18:01:40 -0700 Organization: Bohls Financial Services Subject: Re: Spousal Verbiage WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Mac -Many of us have gone about getting into rod making in different ways- Iam a staunch DYI type - and even though I spent a year and a half tofinishmy first rod the initial cost was only about $60.00 - I hand madepracticallyeverything -since then bamboo rod making has become something wellbeyond thehobby that I still call it - I have actually made a couple of buck at it. Theexpense becomes individual and only you know if it can fit into thebudget ornot and at what rate.Eventually it won't be the economics of it that the wife will learn tohate (or like) - bamboo rod making , like anything enjoyable, can be timeconsuming. You will learn to listen to more music and watch less tv -don'tbuy just one stool for the workbench buy two (a his and hers).As for convincing phrases - It's only a couple of payments on a bassboat- I could MAKE that rod that you were going to buy me for a (chooseevent)gift - the other guys wives are letting them do it. Don't look pastwhining. Wayne NOW I'M LEARNING from THE EXPERTS??? However, whining doesn'twork. Since I don't let my teenage daughter get away with 'other parants let their kids do it' Imust feel uncomfortable with that. My wife already complains about the littleuse that our 'Bass' boat gets -- (at least that's why I bought it). You folks can do better than this -- I need REAL HELP. Maybe I'd better deferr to Zern for real help..... Fred from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Jul 10 06:38:43 1996 ESMTP id GAA01542 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199606:38:42 -0500 VAA25227 for ; Tue, 9 Jul 1996 21:16:55 - Subject: Re: Kirkfield Book There aren't many copies around, leave your name with a dealer and havehimkeep his eyes open. They are a bit expensive too. jb I'm looking for a copy of Stuart Kirkfield's book: "The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod -- A Master's Secrets of Restoration and Repair". Anglers Art doesn't have it nor do my other sources. Any Suggestions? Fred Bohls ----------------------------------------------------James Bond, Toronto, Canada - FAX 416-444-4196 Fledgling cane rod builder, fly tyer and collectorof modern collectable angling books. I don't fish enough, but who does? "On the road to Mandalay,Where the flyin' fishes play,An' the dawn comes up like thunder outer China'crost the Bay!" Rudyard Kipling 1865-1936---------------------------------------------------- from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Wed Jul 10 06:45:47 1996 with SMTP id GAA03000 for ; Wed, 10 Jul1996 06:45:45 -0500 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA15480 for; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 07:08:33 -0400 Wed, 10 Jul 96 6:45:00 EST5EDT EST5EDT Wed, 10 Jul 96 6:44:46 EST5EDT Subject: Re: Spouse Convincing (Was re list members currently...)Priority: normal Hello all, Gathering stuff a little at a time helps, as much as I would of wanted to buy it all at once, I know Jill would of balked at the cost. Same goes for fly tying, she still thinks its a great deal. All those flies I tie for next to nothing!!! I even sold a few. If I bought all the flies I've used and will use at Orvis, it would still cost less than all my tying materials. I like the idea of two stools, I know she won't join me but she'd love the offer. Maybe even put here name on it. That will be worthat least two hours of shop time, complaint free. Maybe even a Hock blade Tom - trying to pull the wool over my wife's eyes, but not succeeding - Ausfeld (sorry Mike, but its contagious)Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Wed Jul 10 07:00:33 1996 ESMTP id HAA00175 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199607:00:26 -0500 #14244) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: list members currently making rods Rebuilding an 8'6"-5 H-I. Building from a blank by Charlie Campbell-CacheLa Poudre Cane Works a 7'6"-4. Really enjoy the list and all theconversations. Grayling sounds fun but its a long way. Someday would liketo build my own. from rcurry@handel.jlc.net Wed Jul 10 07:21:21 1996 SMTP id HAA01973 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199607:21:19 -0500 Subject: A taper The following taper is from a no-name rod that has been refinished bymany hands. The is an 8'3", 3/2, 5wt., Calcutta cane rod, with stainless-steel ferrules, and a delightful, truly unique, parabolic action. Both tips are 32.375" long. Mid and butt are 35.375" long.Varnish thickness (total) probably .004", measurements are as read.The following taper is in 5" increments because I'm so courteous andthat's the demented method of choice.:) Please someone explain to me why five inches?? Is this something Freudian about Garrison that I really don'twant to know? 0 .0675 .07710 .08915 .10120 .11525 .12430 .136Ferrule - stepdown - Shoulder @ 31.5"35 .15640 .16345 .17750 .18755 .19760 .206 65 .218Ferrule - shoulder @ 66.070 .23875 .25880 .27785 .29090 .302Grip starts @ 91.875 Best regards,Reed P.S. - Tom Ausfeld, this is the rod you liked. from flyh2o@mtsi.com Wed Jul 10 07:22:22 1996 SMTP id HAA02024 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199607:22:20 -0500 Subject: RE: List Members Currently Making Rods At 02:43 PM 7/9/96 -0500, you wrote:My name is Frank and I'm a rodbuilder... Well, I'm trying anyway. I'm working on my second cane rod(my first is locked in the attic with other grotesque familysecrets). I'm aiming at Wayne's 7'0" 4wt taper since it came highly recommended on this group. The final planing on the butt section was almost done when I decided to see how far a strip would bend without breaking and found it was just a little less than I thought. My goal is to have it done beforethe end of our trout season (Sept 30). Currently work is stalled as I promised my wife a cherry writing desk for ouranniversary. To Patrick O'Hearn: My mother's maiden name is O'Hearn; maybeyour some distant cousin or something. Any relatives in westernWisconsin? I have a distant relation on my father's side whois/was a guide for Kaufmann's (Randall Stetzer). So far, he hasn't invited my out to go fishing.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterInformation and Media Technologies than a waterproof coat and a Univ Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank, your distant relative (Randy) is still at Kaufmann's, but doesn't domuch guiding these days. As you probably know, he is a cane afficionadoandone of the best casters you will see. He wasn't wired into the net yet lasttime I talked to him.Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state.:Tom McGuane from flyh2o@mtsi.com Wed Jul 10 07:22:25 1996 SMTP id HAA02030 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199607:22:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Spouse Convincing (Was re list members currently...) At 06:14 PM 7/9/96 +0000, you wrote:Date: Tue, 9 Jul 96 14:10:07 PDT From: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Subject: re: List Members currently making rods I'm currently working on convincing my spouse that I need to purchase rodmaking equipment so I can give it a try. I would appreciate any tipson "spouse convincing" that some of you pro's out there on the list could provide. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu 1. Tell her the rod is for her to use, and will be an extensive labour of love. 2. Buy her a new sewing machine and tell her you will need her help 3. The time and expense invested will pay off in "absence makes the heart grow fonder." 4. Promise her some additional income when your rods become famous. 5. Promise that you will give her much credit so that if your rods do become classics, she will have a place in history. 6. Lie to her about the cost. Good Luck, hahahahahaIan ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 If it works for Nike, maybe it will work for you....Just Do It!Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state.:Tom McGuane from oborge@uno.aiss.uic.edu Wed Jul 10 07:25:54 1996 ESMTP id HAA02277 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199607:25:53 -0500 userv.aiss.uiuc.edu (8.7.4/8.7.1) with SMTP id HAA13786; Wed, 10 Jul1996 07:25:52 -0500 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Spousal Verbiage Encoding: 53 TEXT Sell the bass boat.........! ---------- Subject: Re: Spousal Verbiage WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Mac -Many of us have gone about getting into rod making in different ways - Iam a staunch DYI type - and even though I spent a year and a half to finishmy first rod the initial cost was only about $60.00 - I hand made practicallyeverything -since then bamboo rod making has become something wellbeyond thehobby that I still call it - I have actually made a couple of buck at it. Theexpense becomes individual and only you know if it can fit into thebudget ornot and at what rate.Eventually it won't be the economics of it that the wife will learn tohate (or like) - bamboo rod making , like anything enjoyable, can be timeconsuming. You will learn to listen to more music and watch less tv - don'tbuy just one stool for the workbench buy two (a his and hers).As for convincing phrases - It's only a couple of payments on a bass boat- I could MAKE that rod that you were going to buy me for a (chooseevent)gift - the other guys wives are letting them do it. Don't look past whining. Wayne NOW I'M LEARNING from THE EXPERTS??? However, whining doesn'twork. Since I don'tlet my teenage daughter get away with 'other parants let their kids do it' I mustfeel uncomfortable with that. My wife already complains about the little use thatour 'Bass' boat gets -- (at least that's why I bought it). You folks can do better than this -- I need REAL HELP. Maybe I'd better deferr to Zern for real help..... Fred from neuneman@fh-ge.de Wed Jul 10 07:40:56 1996 07:40:07 -0500 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA20015; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:47:39 +0200 Organization: Fachhochschule Gelsenkirchen (Germany) Subject: Re: Kirkfield Book Fred Bohls, CFP wrote: I'm looking for a copy of Stuart Kirkfield's book: "The Fine Bamboo FlyRod -- A Master's Secrets of Restoration and Repair". Anglers Artdoesn't have it nor do my other sources. Any Suggestions? Fred Bohls I bought my copy from Anglers Art, Carlisle, PA. With a little luck you can get a copy. Frank Neunemann from neuneman@fh-ge.de Wed Jul 10 07:56:14 1996 07:54:54 -0500 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA20048; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 15:02:23 +0200 Organization: Fachhochschule Gelsenkirchen (Germany) Subject: Re: Setting Gauge - Was: Milward Binder Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: If I zero my dial gauge on a flat surface and use it toset my planing form, the splines end up being about .005 too large. This is caused by having broke a little bit of the tip off - get a newtip orperhaps one of the setting gauges mentioned here earlier. I know thatafterseveral years of stubbornness I am make a setting gauge. Wayne I thought about that... The tip is sharp, and is at 60 degrees.How do you make a setting gauge? Darryl There is no real sharp tip. The tip on my dial indicator seems to be perfectly sharp, too, but in fact it has a flat spot of about 0.15 mm. Set the depth using you depth gage, plane a strip, mic it and adjust your depth gage according to the tolerance you've got. Frank Neunemann from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Jul 10 10:01:11 1996 with SMTP id KAA18610 for ; Wed, 10 Jul1996 10:01:10 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:02:46 -0400 Subject: Roscoe II ??????? Not having talked to Bob or Ken in a while - has anyone heard anythingabouta Roscoe II?? from the dates that Bob had mentioned Miles Tiernan, Lyndi ,and I have planned on to go fishing somewhere in the east Sept 7, 8 -whichway do we point the trout truck??? Wayne from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Jul 10 10:35:52 1996 KAA22206 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:35:50-0500 Subject: Re: Timber rods (was Listmem...) KilchsGray@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 96-07-09 15:33:27 EDT, you write: I am doing some planning on some greenheart rods. I was fortunateenough to get some good greenheart some time ago and I have a few oldgreenhearts that need replacment of sections, then I hope to be able tobuild one somewhere in the 12-15' range for myself. The trouble is, Istill get a sick feeling when I think of cutting that beautiful wood. Dear Mr. Moon, et al, My "rodbuilding" so far is limited to wrapping one cane rod on aPartridge blank, but I am deeply interested in two-handers and solidwoodrods. Any inf re: finding greenheart, washaba, dagama, lancewood, orotherrodbuilding woods would be very much appreciated. If this is too far offtopic for the List, please email.More to the topic: has anyone tried to do a cane rod with splicedjoints? --Roger Wiggin Dear Roger: My interest in historical rods started while I was curator of the International Fly Fisahing Center in West Yellowstone. The museum had a number of very fine hardwood rods and I had an opportunity to handle them. A friend gave me a number of older rods but there was not a full one in the bunch all had 1 or more sections missing. I thought then of doing some museum quality restoration on those so that they might be exhibited. I started by looking for Greenheart. After a year of checking with hardwood dealers I finally located a source somewhere in the east for 2x4's. I didn't get any because I was not sure if 2x4's would work and secondly I was a little dubious of buying sight unseen expensive wood that had to meet my minimum qualifications. I searched ago, I dropped by a lumber yard called Handloggers near Sausalito. The firm deals only in rare woods and rarely keeps any continuing stock since as their name implies they generally buy and cut specific trees. I was fortunate enough to be there when they had two large bales of Greenheart and I purchased a plank about 1 1/4 x13" by 7'. It is beautifully grained and as I indicated I have been reluctant to cut it. (Yeah, I know it is irrational, but that's the way I am. I have not been successful in locating kany other rod building hardwoods, but except for lancewood and snakewood, I have not searched very assiduously. I hope that this may be of some value to you even if it is primarily negative. I'll be glad to keep you on my e-mail list and let you know how I do if you would like. Sincerely Ralph W. Moon from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Wed Jul 10 10:44:03 1996 KAA23211 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:43:58 -0500 Subject: Belting for a Milward Binder I called Small Part in Flordia about a drive belt for a Milward Binder.What they show is a Flexible Polyurethane tubing. Is that correct, Tubing?So is the correct number for a 1/4" sheave A-207015? Bob Berry Flatland Fly Fisher (FFF) but not for Bass from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Wed Jul 10 11:04:31 1996 LAA25725 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 11:04:29 -0500 Subject: Kirkfield Book If all else fails in finding Kirkfields' book, try Charles Readinger Fly shop in Lebanon, Missouri. I don't know the number but the area code is 417.The lord and Charlie only know whats in his shop, he can dredge up almostanything related to flyfishing. He has a large selection of books.Hope it works for you. Bob Berry (FFF) from rme257@kgv1.bems.boeing.com Wed Jul 10 11:43:10 1996 SMTP id LAA28474 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199611:43:05 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA185122995; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 08:36:35 -0700 Organization: r-5113 Subject: permission I find it hard to believe that someone has to ask their spouse for permission to spend money for anything. I suppose if they have to ask permission to buy anotheer pair of shoes or another purse (money spent by the average wife on shoes and purses is much more than tooling for flyrod building) than i could understand asking for permission. My wife has never asked my permission to buy anything and i have never had to ask her.Judging from the comments so far this is probably highly unusual and i am the luckiest man in world or i'm the only one who has it the way its supposed to be. On another subject has anybody come up for a source for bambo out here in the west? Also is there a reason that eight foot and longer are three piece and not two peice, if you have a 12 foot culm it seems to me it could be two piece unless theres a reason that i dont know about.Having fished on a 8 foot two piece bambo rod i have no knowledge on whether or not two ferrules on a rod negatively effect the action to a great degree or not.Having been a journeymane luthier for eight years i found two things that were constant:a) Its easier to make a piece of wood/bamboo shorter than it is to makeit longer.b) Tooling is the very last thing that you want to scrimp on. patrick from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Wed Jul 10 11:45:24 1996 SMTP id LAA28703 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199611:45:21 -0500 KAA12382; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 10:45:19 -0600 Subject: Milward Binder OK guys, looks like I recieved as many questions as answers. So here goes. Yes I did use URAC. It did seem thick but this being my firsy rod, how thick is too thick. mixed at 4 to 1 as in both books. As far as the Milward binder I did have fairly soft springs in the binder. I am closeto getting ready for glueng a second rod and have replaced the springs with stonger springs, but now notice a tendecy to twist toward the end of the wrap. (too much tension?) Seems to me that one of the advantages of the Garrison binder is the controlled weighting for tension, with the milward how do you know how much tension you are applying? As for glue lines, with my middle aged eyes, What lines? on closer examination under magifying lamp I can see some glue line. (and lots of problems around the nodes) How much of a glue line is too much? As for as setting the forms improperly with the depth guage, I only used the gauge to get the setting close the planed the first strip and adjustedto the correct deminsion as measured with calipers. Then planed the rest to that adjustment. Now to too much pressure from the calipers. This was my first thought,as I think with repeated measurements on the same 5" place on the splines probably did do some damage. I plan to call George Mauer for the V-block today. I did not want to post the taper for every one to see how far I missed the mark, but if it will help in diagnosing the problem here it is. Please keep in mind this is my first attempt : ) Waynes finished increase %increse Spec. dem. 00 068 071 .003 4.4 05 070 073 .003 4.3 `10 082 085 .003 3.715 102 107 .005 4.920 123 129 .006 4.925 137 145 .008 5.830 152 161 .009 5.935 166 176 .010 6.040 184 189 .005 2.745 206 215 .009 4.450 214 224 .010 4.755 220 230 .010 4.560 244 259 .015 6.165 258 268 .010 3.970 272 283 .011 4.0 I would appreciate any insights and hope I am not boring any one with such basic stuff, but all help is greatly appreciated. Iwould have never gotten this far without this group. Thanks again, Jim Fillpot from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Wed Jul 10 12:17:26 1996 SMTP id MAA03094 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199612:17:24 -0500 Subject: Kirkfield Book I have read some out-of-print books I could never otherwise afford libraries. Grayson Davis from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Wed Jul 10 12:41:13 1996 with SMTP id MAA06719 for ; Wed, 10 Jul1996 12:41:10 -0500 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA31679 for; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:41:08 -0400 Wed, 10 Jul 96 13:17:34 EST5EDT EST5EDT Wed, 10 Jul 96 13:17:18 EST5EDT Subject: Timber rods...Priority: normal Hello all, I have a "wooden rod" my wife bought several years ago, I never gave it much thought or attention. It casts ok. How do I go about any markings, I'll double check tonite. thanks from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Wed Jul 10 12:41:17 1996 MAA06740 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 12:41:16-0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Missouri House of Representatives Subject: Re: Kirkfield BookPriority: normal To add to Bob Berry's posting, the phone number for Charlie Reading's shop in Lebanon, MO, is (417) 588-4334. Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from wishbone@headwaters.com Wed Jul 10 12:55:44 1996 SMTP id MAA09397 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199612:55:41 -0500 ns1.bellglobal.com (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id NAA07322 for; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:53:04 -0400 (5.65/1.1.8.2/12Aug95-0226PM) Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: permission Priority: normal Seeing as you brought it up Pat!! Haha, well I guess it all depends on eaches financial situation, and what arrangements have been made with the spouse. I guess Pat, it is not so much asking permission, it is more attempting to convince the spouse that it is a worthwhile thing to spend Family money on, out of respect for that person. I mean if the bank account has 1500.00, and each spouse wants something that costs 1000.00, well, you gotta come to some arrangement, no? If you are lucky enough to be in a financial situation whereby you and your spouse do not have to worry about what you spend your money on, and that your family is in such a position that there are no worries about bills and so forth, that is fantastic. But, some are not in such a position, and, often spouses do consult with each other, just out of respect, if nothing else. Even if you can completely afford the item, it would make the other half feel that much more important that you value there opinion on a plan of spending. Anyhow, I know this list is not about marital relations, and believe me I am know expert on the matter, however, I felt I had to respond. It is not really asking permission, it is an attempt to keep good relations without envyings and jealosies about where money is being spent!! And dont take any offence, I mean this all in good fun and lightness.Ian ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 from jonrc@atlantic.net Wed Jul 10 13:29:58 1996 ESMTP id NAA13360 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199613:29:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Roscoe II ??????? WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Not having talked to Bob or Ken in a while - has anyone heard anythingabouta Roscoe II?? from the dates that Bob had mentioned Miles Tiernan,Lyndi ,and I have planned on to go fishing somewhere in the east Sept 7, 8 -whichway do we point the trout truck??? Wayne Wayne, I was talking to George Maurer the other day and he told me it was goingto be September 13th and 14th, though I have not heard anything form those thatare organizing it. I will not be able to make it this year, I've got a fishing trip planned for Colorado that week. Jonathan, Clarke -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and time again.Casting and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running the length of the cane rodallowing the angler just a glimpse of the mystery below the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Jul 10 13:35:22 1996 with SMTP id NAA13681 for ; Wed, 10 Jul1996 13:35:20 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:35:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Spousal Verbiage Folks (mostly fellas)My wife is a very patient woman - who over the 22 years of ourmarriagehas allowed me to do somewhat as I will - in return I have alwayssupportedher in what she wants. I have always been cautious about encouragingothersin spending money. I won't even mention how much I have invested intothislittle hobby.But if one were to ask counsel of the 'clubhouse' group on a saturdaynight after a few 'cocktails' I'm sure the phrase "testicularcircumferance"might be tossed about a bit. Wasn't there something like this in a recentbook "Fly fishing Through a Mid - Life Crisis" - where the fella asked hiswife if he could go fishing and she responded by saying that they wouldsee -the referance was about being handed one's antlers.As I said in the original post each of us need to evaluate our owncircumstance in life and make a decision from that. Wayne But remember that you're getting an answer from a person with NOmortage,NO car payments, a job refered to as "the Golden Handcuffs", 3 out of 4members of the family fly fish and make money at making bamboo flyrods.Itcould be slanted. from jonrc@atlantic.net Wed Jul 10 13:35:38 1996 ESMTP id NAA13692 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 199613:35:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Belting for a Milward Binder bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us wrote: I called Small Part in Flordia about a drive belt for a Milward Binder.What they show is a Flexible Polyurethane tubing. Is that correct,Tubing?So is the correct number for a 1/4" sheave A-207015? Bob Berry Flatland Fly Fisher (FFF) but not for Bass Bob, I just bought some from a LOCAL belt and bearing place, it is called"Orange Go". Call around you may be able to find it locally. Jonatahn Clarke -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and time again.Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together, the flyis taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running the length of the cane rodallowing the angler just a glimpse of the mystery below the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Jul 10 13:54:03 1996 NAA14758 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 13:54:01 -0500 Subject: Polymer Belting I use that drive belting from Small Parts in a lot of different applications in my rodmaking. It is not tube. It is solid. All you do is to cut it to 80% of the length you need, then heat both ends with a flame and stick together. Clean up the joint and stretch it on to the pulley or sheave assembly. No need for an idler to tension the belt. Works good even in high speed applications ie, 3500 rpms.John Zimny from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Jul 10 14:23:15 1996 SMTP id OAA16471 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:23:14 -0500 CDT Subject: RODMAKERS Archives Good news folks!!! I was FINALLY successful in getting the LISTPROC gods to turn on our Archiving functions. What this means is that from nowon, all your words of wisdom will be automatically archived retrieved using standard LISTPROC commands (I'll attach thecommands at the end of this). The unfortunate thing is that we did not have this from thebeginning so everything up until this point has been keptmanually. Those archives will be maintained on the RODMAKERSwebpage that Jerry Foster set up, and will include messages from January, 1995 thru today. All future messages will bestored on the RODMAKERS ListProc server. I would suggest you try out some of the following archivecommands to get a feel for what's out there and how itworks. If you have any problems, please let me know andI will try to get it figured out. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=All archive commands should be sent to the LISTPROC address.The LISTPROC address is: listproc@mail.wustl.edu The archive commands of interest to us are: (our archives are not setup as 'private' so the password option inthe below commands is not needed): index RODMAKERS [/password] [-all]-------------------------------------------------- --Get a list of files in the selected archive, or the master archive if noarchive was specified. If an archive is private, you have to provide itspassword as well. search RODMAKERS [/password] [-all] ----------------------------------------------- -----------------Search all files of the specified archive (and all of its subarchives if -allis specified) for lines that match the pattern. The pattern can be anegrep(1)-style regular expression with support for the followingadditionaloperators: '~' (negation), '|' and '&' (logical OR and AND), '' (groupregular expressions). The pattern may be enclosed in single or doublequotes.Note: . matches any character including new line. get RODMAKERS [/password] [parts]------------------------------------------------ ----------Get the requested file from the specified archive. Files are usually split inparts locally, and in such a case you will receive the file in multiple emailmessages -- an 'index' request tells you how many parts the file has beensplitinto, and their sizes; if you need to obtain certain parts, specify them asoptional arguments. If an archive is private, you have to provide itspasswordas well. from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Wed Jul 10 14:56:28 1996 OAA18458 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 14:56:26 -0500 Subject: The quote The trick "never"worksRocket J. Squirrel B.B. (FFF) from maiello@yorku.ca Wed Jul 10 15:32:53 1996 with SMTP id PAA20801 for ; Wed, 10 Jul1996 15:32:52 -0500 (8.6.12/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA21162 for; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 16:32:52 - 0400 doing -bs Subject: Re: Spousal Verbiage I had to get in on this one. You guys should have started building rods BEFORE you got hitched.I'm getting married in Aug /97, and have already gotten most of thestuff I need. She has NO choice in the matter. She's getting married toa rod maker, if she doesn't like it, she can leave me! If I start making some money at it, then I can justify a lathe, betterforms, etc, etc. The way to sell it to your wife, is that its a buisness investment.Convince her that people are willing to pay BIG BUCKS for a rod, and tellher that you will give her some, or take her somewhere, or buy hersomething, and see how fast she starts telling you to get to "work". Mauro from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Wed Jul 10 21:35:45 1996 VAA11237 for ; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 21:35:39 -0500 Subject: Dial Indicator Point I'm not sure who I'm resonding to on the setting of the dial indicator/depth gauge, but it sound like you need a new point for the depth gauge. I just bought one a couple of week ago from a Sterett (sp) dealer. The cost was under $5.00 but they did have to order it. As far as finding the depthof you forms I still working on this one. The reason is is if I push the plunger up in to the body of gauge using a 60 degree point that start the measure from the point. Now when I lower the point into the form thepointextend below the bottom of the form grove. So I don't really know thedepthof my grove in the forms. I'm working on this one. I like Frank Neunemann accoringly. I'm still a newbie wating for the first rod to fall out but thiswasmy IMHO. Thank for the opportunity Bob Berry (FFF) from 76375.2274@CompuServe.COM Wed Jul 10 23:47:30 1996 (8.7.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id XAA16550 for; Wed, 10 Jul 1996 23:47:29 - 0500 Subject: Polymer Belting I would like to get some of the belting and need an address or number forSmallParts, can't believe that I don't have their cataloge, mailman swears Imusthave everyone that was ever printed. Thank you for your help. Chuck Irvine from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Thu Jul 11 09:12:23 1996 JAA03776 for ; Thu, 11 Jul 1996 09:12:21 -0500 Subject: Address for Small Parts Inc. The Address for Small Parts Inc. is as follows13980 N.W. 58th CortP.O. Box 4650Miami Lakes Fl. 33014-0650Customer Service (305) 557-7955Fax 1- 800 423-9009 They have a 800 number but I don't have it in front of me. Hope this helps B. Berry (FFF) from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Jul 11 18:41:22 1996 with SMTP id SAA16654 for ; Thu, 11 Jul1996 18:41:21 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 11 Jul 1996 19:42:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Polymer Belting In a message dated 96-07-11 00:53:16 EDT, you write: I would like to get some of the belting and need an address or number forSmallParts, can't believe that I don't have their cataloge, mailman swears Imusthave everyone that was ever printed. Thank you for your help. Chuck Irvine Hey Chuck: Its a great catalog, and the belting works great. I'm not sure which listguy we owe for first bringing it up (Curry, Conner, ???), but my thanks toheim. Pho : 800-220-4242Fax : 800-423-9009 Enjoy. RTyree from richjez@wwa.com Fri Jul 12 00:42:15 1996 SMTP id AAA01733 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 199600:42:14 -0500 Subject: Re: List Members currently making rods Try the Kirkfield book for some heavy rod tapers. If you don't have it, I can send you the tapers though the book is worth having.I am interested in your untralight spinning rod. It sounds neat. Others onthe list might be interested in hearing how it works out too. Mayed the tapers too. Richard Tyree had a real nice spinning rod a Grayling. Rich Jezioro *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from richjez@wwa.com Fri Jul 12 00:42:16 1996 SMTP id AAA01738 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 199600:42:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Kirkfield Book I got my Kirkfield book at: Clayton RawnRoaring Fork Outfitters, Ltd.2577 Waukegan RoadBannockburn, IL 60015800-750-3675 I hope this helpsRich*_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from richjez@wwa.com Fri Jul 12 00:53:10 1996 SMTP id AAA02126 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 199600:53:10 -0500 Subject: Re: List Members currently making rods OOps, I ment the Krider bookRich *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| __________________________________________________|| /\ / \ > > > from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Fri Jul 12 07:45:40 1996 with SMTP id HAA03339 for ; Fri, 12 Jul1996 07:45:36 -0500 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA26069 for; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:45:34 -0400 Fri, 12 Jul 96 8:21:53 EST5EDT EST5EDT Fri, 12 Jul 96 8:21:43 EST5EDT Subject: Grayling NamePriority: normal Hello all, I know this is similar to the newsletter but I thought it was appropriate: The Planing Forum Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Jul 12 07:49:31 1996 with SMTP id HAA03436 for ; Fri, 12 Jul1996 07:49:30 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 08:50:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Belting for a Milward Binder Bob:Try A-PRB-4, pg 288 (catalog # 16)Regards,RTyree from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Jul 12 09:14:45 1996 SMTP id JAA07408 for ; Fri, 12 Jul 1996 09:14:44 -0500 Subject: GraylingGathering '97 With Tom's latest addition, I'll attach what we've got so far. entry of "Bamboo Rendezvous". Has sort of a nice ring to it, I think. Also, any of you that have a clear preference to what has been sent inso far, please post it to the list. I'll start tabulating the votes. Still not too late to send in suggestions... Mike - tabulator - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The Greater Grayrock Bamboo Rod, Bent Hackle, Balded Bambi,and Grain Futures Appreciation Society Wayne Cattanach RODMAKERS Encounter I Mike Biondo RODMAKERS raising CANE Jerry Ballard Brotherhood (of) All Makers (of) Bamboo Originals Outing (BAMBOO I)Jack Bewley Bamboo-zers I Tim Lane Woodstock (well, ok then... "Canestock") Tim Lane Bamboo Boogie Victor Edwards Rod Rendezous Victor Edwards Arundinaria Assembly Victor Edwards Split Cane Stop (or Station) Victor Edwards Makers Meet Victor Edwards Spare-the-Rod or A Good Caning Bruce Conner Plain Cane Planers James Bond. Bamboo Rendezvous CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL The Caneards Convention Gary LandryAccording to the dictionary the suffix -ard means - One that habitually orexcessively is in a specified condition or performs a specified action. Cane Rod Aficionados, Makers, and Purveyors Social Reed Curry(CRAMPS for short. This would go well with the results of eating toomuch at the Barbeque. Great food, Victor!) The Bamboo Rodmakers Gathering at Grayling Jonathan Clarke B.G.'s aka BeeGees(BamBoo Grayling Gathering (BB-GG's) Tim Lane The Planing Forum Tom Ausfeld from cbogart@ibm.net Sat Jul 13 10:04:23 1996 SMTP id KAA29904 for ; Sat, 13 Jul 199610:04:22 -0500 1996 11:05:19 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Ferrule glue Christopher I recieved the Ferr-L-tite and it appears to be the same hot meltthat you are familiar with. I would suggest people using their heat gunsvice butane lighters or other simular sources of heat. Second, as peoplementioned, cleaning ferrules prior to glueing would help remove dirt and residue flux from soldering. If you want to take some fine sandpaper and"rough" up the interior of the ferrule it would be fine. I have been using Devcon epoxy like a number of others. Removinga ferrule can be difficult and damn near impossible for repair orreplacemnetof a section. This hot melt would have solved at least one problem amakerhad at Grayling where his tabs of the ferrule were flared out and heldtheirpermanently by the epoxy. I plan to give this glue a try on an experimental rod I am building(as part of my mid summer madness) that I will use it on. Bailey Woodswears Another use for this glue is to attach the cap of your cap and ringreel seat. Makes for easy removal and repair latter on. I have been usingthe hot melt for attaching tip-tops for that purpose but I will switch tothisglue for that purpose. Now for the good news - it is only $2.50 a stick and should last alongtime - cheap investment to try. P.S. I havn't had to pull a rod out of a bale of hay yet. I have hadother unfortunate experieces but not that one - something to look forwardto. Chris from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Jul 14 09:41:54 1996 with SMTP id JAA02035 for ; Sun, 14 Jul1996 09:41:52 -0500 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 14 Jul 1996 09:53:20 -0400 Subject: Urac In a message dated 96-07-10 13:37:09 EDT, Jim Fillpot wrote: OK guys, looks like I recieved as many questions as answers. So here goes. Yes I did use URAC. It did seem thick but this being my firsy rod, how thick is too thick. mixed at 4 to 1 as in both books. As far as the Milward binder I did have fairly soft springs in the binder. I am close to Hi Jim: The info I got from John Zimny is that Urac is mfgd for theplywoodindustry, hence the catalyst is in the powder which is ground walnutshells.The powder is intended to be a filler of voids in the mfg of plywood. Hegotthat from the mfg of urac. As suggested by the manufacturer, the mixproduces a mixture that is quite thick...at least that has been myexperience.As I understand it, and it is with their blessing, John recommendsamoniumchloride(NH4CL) as the catalyst, sans powder. Source of NH4CL: The Science fair 140 College SquareNewark DE 19711(302) 453-1817They will package 500 grams (lifetime supply)of regent (sp?) grade for approx$25.oo Might package less is requested. Procedure for use: Mix AmChl 5% to 10% into solution with DistilledWaterMix the solution 10% into the Urac liquid.This produces a 1-/2 to 1 % catalyst mix thatprovides a good pot life and adhesive that is thinner than withthe suppliedpowder/catalyst. I have used this with goodresults on the last four rods glued up. I would appreciate any insights and hope I am not boring any one with such basic stuff, but all help is greatly appreciated. I would have never gotten this far without this group. Thanks again, Jim Fillpot Thanks for the taper. I suspect that most of us got most of what we havelearned about bamboo from others; at least I have. I enjoy relating myexperiences so keep up the questions. Best Regards,RTyree from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Jul 14 09:47:07 1996 SMTP id JAA03241 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 199609:47:05 -0500 0600 Subject: Hot Glues for Ferrules Chris and others, The hot glues seem to come in a number of formulatons - some melt @very lowtemperatures so chose your glue correctly. I use glues that are available @the local craft shop and select the higher melt variety. If you use or storethe rod in a hot enviornment, creeping of the glue joint could/will occur.I've been there. Ferrules seem to be OK in this service as long as they arekept cool but reel seats where there is constant stress of the reel footpressing the cap off will cause the cap to become somewhat loose as thecapslid marginally. When fishing a lot and moving from place to place, I putthe rod on the dash of my truck. The sunlight/heat caused a glue ferrulefailure when I assembled the rod, found the guides out of alignment andtried to disassemble it again. It was + 90 that day. Doesn't happen a lotup here so never gave the problem much thought till the failure. Certainlytip tops are OK with this glue. I pay about $.25/stick for the hot glues.Expect a lot less $'s south of border. Regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Jul 14 09:47:29 1996 SMTP id JAA03278 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 199609:47:27 -0500 0600 Subject: Silk Fly Lines To all, I know that this is not the topic normally discussed here but I figured thatof all the folks in the fly fishing world, anyone who makes cane may be oldenough to remember silk lines. I'm not quite old enough - the first "good"line was a Cortland 333 bought in 1963. Silk was already gone from thescene. The Problem: Every year I get about 3 weeks to a month in southern Alberta for fishing.The wind has a tendency to blow down there. Normal daytime breezes mayexceed 30 mph 2 out of 5 days. The larger plastic coated lines are pushedall over the place and what I'm considering is the purchase of a used silklines. A friend seems to get a fair number of them with hisantique/collectable reel business and I would like to try one. The Question: Does anyone know of the correlation between silk and plastic coated lines.Iknow that silk lines used a lettering system. I remeber seeing HCH andHDHas a kid. No idea then what it meant and still the same now. I figure thatHCH etc. was double taper but does anyone know what that might mean intermsof grains/30 ft. which is the standard now? Regards, Don from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Sun Jul 14 10:17:41 1996 KAA06075 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 1996 10:17:36 -0500 Subject: Lonely weerkend My gosh, nothng beem on the net. Eiter you have been fishing or schnickingaa new rod. Been work on some bamboo in the basement. No time for chitchat. When is the next meeting of the rodbuilders? Bob Berry (FFF) from tball@sunny.ncmc.cc.mi.us Sun Jul 14 11:04:08 1996 with ESMTP id LAA09515 for ; Sun, 14 Jul1996 11:04:06 -0500 Subject: re: List Members currently making rods Chris, all you have to do is let her use a bamboo rod just once. TOM On Tue, 9 Jul 1996, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I'm currently working on convincing my spouse that I need to purchase rodmaking equipment so I can give it a try. I would appreciate any tipson "spouse convincing" that some of you pro's out there on the list could provide. Thanks in advance for your assistance. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Jul 14 11:51:05 1996 SMTP id LAA13317 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 199611:51:03 -0500 1996 12:48:29 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Hot Glues for Ferrules Don You're right. Choose the glue carefully. The reason I brought up the hot glue is thatthis is the one Bailey Wood reccomends (and sells) and it offers aalternative to the epoxies that have been mentioned. The epoxies aregreatuntil you want to remove a ferrule - I ended up drilling out the lasttwo I had to remove - they did not want to cooperate with less drastic measures. This appears to be a good method for putting ferruleson those "new taper" rods everyone likes to try now and then and knowyou can easily recover the ferrules. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Jul 14 11:56:50 1996 SMTP id LAA13569 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 199611:56:49 -0500 1996 12:54:15 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Don In the back of Wayne's book (page 203) he has a cross referance chart that gives you the old / new line weight designations. This willget you in the ballpark. Going to silk lines will really help you gointo the wind (less air resistance due smaller dia.). Also based uponour line tests at Grayling - a silk line makes a bamboo rod comes alivecompared to almost any other line. The next best seems to be the oldair cell that Reed Curry had - none of the current lines appear to beas good. Chris from gord@teleport.com Sun Jul 14 14:32:16 1996 with ESMTP id OAA17955 for ; Sun, 14 Jul1996 14:32:15 -0500 MAA01473 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 1996 12:28:36 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines The Question: Does anyone know of the correlation between silk and plastic coatedlines. Iknow that silk lines used a lettering system. I remeber seeing HCH andHDHas a kid. No idea then what it meant and still the same now. I figure thatHCH etc. was double taper but does anyone know what that might mean intermsof grains/30 ft. which is the standard now? I have Haig-Brown's "A Primer of Fly-Fishing". Printed in '64 it has a bitabout the new numbers adopted January 1st, 1962. First, the letters were A=.060", B=.055", C=.050", D=.045", E=.040",F=.035", G=.030", H=.025", I=.022". I'd not known that. Mr. Haig-Brown states an HCH became a 7wt under the new system butdoesn'tdiscuss other lettered silk line's new designations. The first thirty feetare used to determine the lines weight under our new system. #3 94- 106grains, #4 114-126 gr, #5 134-146 gr, #6 152-168 gr, #7 177-193 gr, #8202-218 gr. Hope this helps... Cheers,Gordon from flyh2o@mtsi.com Sun Jul 14 19:08:52 1996 SMTP id TAA24283 for ; Sun, 14 Jul 199619:08:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines At 08:40 AM 7/14/96 -0600, you wrote:To all, I know that this is not the topic normally discussed here but I figuredthatof all the folks in the fly fishing world, anyone who makes cane may beoldenough to remember silk lines. I'm not quite old enough - the first "good"line was a Cortland 333 bought in 1963. Silk was already gone from thescene. The Problem: Every year I get about 3 weeks to a month in southern Alberta for fishing.The wind has a tendency to blow down there. Normal daytime breezes mayexceed 30 mph 2 out of 5 days. The larger plastic coated lines are pushedall over the place and what I'm considering is the purchase of a used silklines. A friend seems to get a fair number of them with hisantique/collectable reel business and I would like to try one. The Question: Does anyone know of the correlation between silk and plastic coatedlines. Iknow that silk lines used a lettering system. I remeber seeing HCH andHDHas a kid. No idea then what it meant and still the same now. I figure thatHCH etc. was double taper but does anyone know what that might mean intermsof grains/30 ft. which is the standard now? Regards, Don You have the info on line designations by now. As an aside, Orvis stillmakes their old "intermediate" line which is amber in color (like some silklines) and the diameters are finer than contemporary floatinglines.....unfortunately they only come in WF configuration except for theheavy lines for spey rods. I used to have some DTs and in 5 and 6 andthough I have only had the pleasure of fishing silk a couple of times, agreased intermediate is about as close to silk as anything I have seen.Mike in PDX "When the trout are lost, smash the state.:Tom McGuane from r_frank@foma.wsc.mass.edu Mon Jul 15 07:56:37 1996 with SMTP id HAA03066 for ; Mon, 15 Jul1996 07:56:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines New silk lines are available from Len Codella. Theprice is steep, however. About $180 as I recall.richard r_frank@foma.wsc.mass.edu Richard FrankDepartment of EducationWestfield State CollegeWestfield, MA 01086*****************************************I never get the last word!***************************************** from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jul 15 08:44:37 1996 with SMTP id IAA00673 for ; Mon, 15 Jul1996 08:44:36 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:15:05 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Don Andersen Says: "Every year I get about 3 weeks to a month in southern Alberta for fishing.The wind has a tendency to blow down there." You might also consider a modern intermediate weight line. I've used themforyears for salt water fishing and sometimes for trout also. They areexcellentin the wind. Orvis markets one that looks and feels very much like silk,theCourtland versions are nice also, but feel a little more dense to me. Thethings will float, ( sort of ) if you grease them, but I prefer them for wetflies and streamers. The're probably no worse than silk for dry fliesthough.Silk is nice to cast, if you can get a good used one, go for it. I certainlywouldn't pay the Pentagon type prices they want for a new one, however. -Tom Smithwick from pplumbo@che2.che.umn.edu Mon Jul 15 10:02:46 1996 SMTP id KAA06902 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 199610:02:45 -0500 15 Jul 96 10:02:51 CST6CDT CST6CDT 15 Jul 96 09:57:15 CST6CDT Subject: Re: Hot Glues for Ferrules Chris writes about removing epoxy... The epoxies are great until you want to remove a ferrule - I ended up drilling out the last two I had to remove - they did not want to cooperate with less drastic measures. Have you tried gentle heating? I've used epoxy for years and can debondit at will from most surfaces using a hot air gun, heating until theepoxy at the joint interface begins to deteriorate. It will weakenand begin to crumble after a few minutes exposure to heat. Work in a well ventilated area of course, and use a scraper to remove the weakened epoxy. -Phil Plumbo from HADN@chevron.com Mon Jul 15 12:22:13 1996 SMTP id MAA05719 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 199612:22:11 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:22:04 -0700 Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:22:04 -0700 Subject: RE: Hot Glues for Ferrules 4.0.838.14Encoding: 31 TEXT Chris writes about removing epoxy... The epoxies are great until you want to remove a ferrule - I ended up drilling out the last two I had to remove - they did not want to cooperate with less drastic measures. Have you tried gentle heating? I've used epoxy for years and can debondit at will from most surfaces using a hot air gun, heating until theepoxy at the joint interface begins to deteriorate. It will weakenand begin to crumble after a few minutes exposure to heat. Work in a well ventilated area of course, and use a scraper to remove the weakened epoxy. -Phil Plumbo Also, if you are not too concerned about the rod itself (seems to me the ferrule is the cheaper compared to the rod, but it may be a trashed rod), scrape away the winding and varnish around theferrule tabs and soak in acetone. Put acetone in a jar, immerseend of rod in the acetone, use tin foil around top of jar and rod.In a couple days the ferrule will pull right off. Acetone does a good job weakening set epoxy. It also does a good job deteriorating bamboo, so if the intent is to keep the blank,use the heat method. Darryl Hayashida from HADN@chevron.com Mon Jul 15 12:34:32 1996 SMTP id MAA07674 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 199612:34:27 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:34:25 -0700 Mon, 15 Jul 1996 10:34:25 -0700 Subject: RE: Belting for a Milward Binder 4.0.838.14Encoding: 12 TEXT I used PVC tubing. I used a round file to cut a groovein the edge of the pulleys (made out of plywood). Ifound some PVC tubing sold at the local hardwarestore to fit in the grooves. It's the kind used for variouspurposes to pipe water around. To connect the endsI simply bought a short section of smaller tubing thatfits inside the tubing with a bit of friction. Works likea charm. Darryl Hayashida from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Jul 15 22:17:05 1996 WAA12710 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 1996 22:17:03-0500 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Don Andersen Says: "Every year I get about 3 weeks to a month in southern Alberta forfishing.The wind has a tendency to blow down there." You might also consider a modern intermediate weight line. I've usedthem foryears for salt water fishing and sometimes for trout also. They areexcellentin the wind. Orvis markets one that looks and feels very much like silk,theCourtland versions are nice also, but feel a little more dense to me. Thethings will float, ( sort of ) if you grease them, but I prefer them forwetflies and streamers. The're probably no worse than silk for dry fliesthough.Silk is nice to cast, if you can get a good used one, go for it. I certainlywouldn't pay the Pentagon type prices they want for a new one, however. -Tom Smithwick Somewhere, sometime ago, I saw a procedure for renovating old stiffened silk lines. I don't remember where; can any one help? I have a couple of silk lines in good condition, but one is too stiff and coarse to be of much value and I'd like to try to reclaim it. Thanks Ralph Moon from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Jul 15 22:17:07 1996 WAA12715 for ; Mon, 15 Jul 1996 22:17:06-0500 Subject: Re: Hot Glues for Ferrules Phil Plumbo wrote: Chris writes about removing epoxy... The epoxies are great until you want to remove a ferrule -I ended up drilling out the last two I had to remove - they didnot want to cooperate with less drastic measures. Have you tried gentle heating? I've used epoxy for years and can debondit at will from most surfaces using a hot air gun, heating until theepoxy at the joint interface begins to deteriorate. It will weakenand begin to crumble after a few minutes exposure to heat. Work in a well ventilated area of course, and use a scraper to removethe weakened epoxy. -Phil Plumbo I agree with Phil. Epoxy will break down with heat. The trick is to heat gently and slowly. You rush this operation and you have trouble.I don' like and don't use epoxy or hot glues for ferrule setting. I have used Urethane Bond made by Dow Corning for years and never had a failure and I have always been able to remove a ferrule if necessary with GENTLE heat. Urethane bond never dries rock hard and thus will not crack and powder as do hot melt glues and epoxy. It expands which gives the rodmaker a little plus in setting ferrules. The only place I will use a hot melt glue--and it must have a high temperature melting point-- is on a tip top. I don't like to use much heat on a delicate tip and for this purpose hot melt is ok if it has a highmelting point. from rme257@kgv1.bems.boeing.com Tue Jul 16 03:59:39 1996 SMTP id DAA21821 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 199603:59:36 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA056076659; Mon, 15 Jul 1996 09:04:19 -0700 Organization: r-5113 Subject: bamboo and tooling This being the first time that i've bought non aged bamboo i'm not sure if i have to dry in the sun and/or age it before i can use it. If somebody could help me with this it would be greatly appreciated. I built a rod in a class taught by D. Holbrook years ago and he supplied some very old bamboo for those of use who took the class. Also does any- body have a source for a bamboo fro, the base for a dial indicator and the heating elements for a tempering oven or a oven it self. I bought a stainless steel dial caliper and was wondering has anybody tried putting a 60 degree notch in it in lew of using a mic with a anvil with a 60 deg notch in it, if so how deep should the notch be? I am working on a deal with a friend with a small machine shop to produce Garrison type control screws and possible roughed out cold rolled steel planing forms.if anybody is interested i will post his name/address and phone numberwhen he gets the particulars worked out and its not to cost prohibitive. Patrick from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jul 16 07:31:22 1996 with SMTP id HAA01261 for ; Tue, 16 Jul1996 07:31:21 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:31:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines Ralph Moon writes:"Somewhere, sometime ago, I saw a procedure for renovating old stiffened silk lines. I don't remember where; can any one help?" Ralph - I have heard you can clean an old silk line with a mild detergentlike Ivory, dry it, and then polish with talcum powder. The line can then begreased with red tin mucilin.If the line is worn I think you can also re-varnish it, but you will have toask someone else about that procedure. If the line is stiff I think you canalso begin the cleaning process by washing it with turpentine. - TomSmithwick from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Tue Jul 16 08:47:27 1996 IAA03581 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 1996 08:47:22 -0500 Subject: Bamboo Fro To Patrick CoffeyAt the present time I'm making a fro out of an old 10" table saw blade. I laid out a L on the blade just out side of the center hole and this will becut out. I will then sharpen the blade and attach a handle on the short partof the L. I think mine may be a little to wide so ther might be a lot ofgriding.As soon as got it close to sharpening I will have it tempered. Any cheapsaw blade will work, most have fairly good steel. Handle is just make out ofany wood. If you want to make your own and need a set of rough plans giveyourfax and I'll send you what I did Good Luck Bob Berry (FFF) from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Tue Jul 16 10:19:13 1996 with SMTP id KAA00880 for ; Tue, 16 Jul1996 10:19:11 -0500 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Block plane blade angles It's been quiet on the list lately, so... Does anyone have any experience with using a lower plane bladeangle than the 9 1/2 (21 degree angle)? I have been playing witha Stanley 60 1/2 (12 degree angle), which is virtually idential to the9 1/2 except for the blade angle, and I get lots of more (severe)splinteringand tearing around the nodes when planing than I do with the 9 1/2.I was hoping that the lower angle could give easier thinner cutsacross the cane. Both blades are have a good 30 degree angle sharpened prior to use -Jerry B. from gord@teleport.com Tue Jul 16 22:57:33 1996 with ESMTP id WAA15458 for ; Tue, 16 Jul1996 22:57:32 -0500 UAA09184 for ; Tue, 16 Jul 1996 20:56:08 Subject: Re: Hot Glues for Ferrules At 10:02 AM 7/15/96 -0500, you wrote:Chris writes about removing epoxy... The epoxies are great until you want to remove a ferrule - I ended up drilling out the last two I had to remove - they did not want to cooperate with less drastic measures. Have you tried gentle heating? I've used epoxy for years and can debondit at will from most surfaces using a hot air gun, heating until theepoxy at the joint interface begins to deteriorate. It will weakenand begin to crumble after a few minutes exposure to heat. I agree... Heat will break the epoxy I've used (devcon 5 minute) but don'tapply too much heat. I discovered the solder in Bailey Woods ferrulesusinga torch. Cheers,Gordon from neuneman@fh-ge.de Wed Jul 17 01:10:10 1996 01:10:08 -0500 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA24811; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:17:49 +0200 Organization: Fachhochschule Gelsenkirchen (Germany) Subject: Re: bamboo and tooling Patrick Coffey wrote: This being the first time that i've bought non aged bamboo i'm not sureif i have to dry in the sun and/or age it before i can use it. Ifsomebody could help me with this it would be greatly appreciated. Ibuilt a rod in a class taught by D. Holbrook years ago and he suppliedsome very old bamboo for those of use who took the class. Patrick, if your bamboo is reasonably and evenly straw colored, you can build a rod from it. I did it was and I guess still is impossible to get aged bamboo, so (years ago) I had to settle withcoparatively "fresh" bamboo. I did some additional gentle heat treating to simulateaging, but I always used straw colored culms. If there is still some grayish-green shading on your culms, just exposethem to direct sunlight and after a few days the grayish-green tint will disappear. I thinkthat the importance of having "very old" bamboo to make good rods is prettyoverstressed. Good quality bamboo with lots of power fibers seems to be more important to me. Frank Neunemann from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Jul 17 09:18:44 1996 SMTP id JAA28872 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 09:18:42 -0500 CDT Subject: Re: Lonely weerkend Bob - or was that Chuck - Berry sang out... :-) My gosh, nothng beem on the net. Eiter you have been fishing orschnicking aa new rod. Been work on some bamboo in the basement. No time for chitchat.When is the next meeting of the rodbuilders? Yep, been pretty quiet lately. Hopefully everyone is out USING thosenice cane rods instead of being cooped up planing them!!! :-) I for one unfortunately have been doing very little of either! :-(Pesky things like work keep interfering with the things I reallywould rather be doing. Fortunately though I have managed to sneak in a little fishing, andam making some progress on what I hope will turn out as a Leonard 38clone. Sure hope everyone else is managing a bit more fun... Mike - is it Friday yet - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from HADN@chevron.com Wed Jul 17 10:43:35 1996 SMTP id KAA05335 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 199610:43:31 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:42:18 -0700 Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:42:18 -0700 Subject: RE: Lonely weerkend 4.0.838.14Encoding: 48 TEXT I'm getting ready for my yearly week long fishing trip to the CaliforniaSierra Nevada Mtns. I bring my whole family, including my parents,and rent a condo. I finished my 8ft. 3 piece 4wt. I've test casted it, and it seems okay. Only a real fishing session will tell, though. To underscore how wonderful the Internet is, a fellow list memberrecognized my name and inquired as to my identity, and it turnsout that he had served with my Dad in the Army. Way back in themid 60's. He is meeting us at Mammoth CA this weekend to fishtogether and ask questions about bamboo rod making. He juststarted purchasing the tools and supplies. Looks like this will be a great trip. Darryl Hayashida ----------From: michael@wupsych.wustl.edu[SMTP:michael@wupsych.wustl.edu]Sent: Wednesday, July 17, 1996 1:49 AM Subject: Re: Lonely weerkend Bob - or was that Chuck - Berry sang out... :-) My gosh, nothng beem on the net. Eiter you have been fishing orschnicking aa new rod. Been work on some bamboo in the basement. No time forchit chat.When is the next meeting of the rodbuilders? Yep, been pretty quiet lately. Hopefully everyone is out USING thosenice cane rods instead of being cooped up planing them!!! :-) I for one unfortunately have been doing very little of either! :-(Pesky things like work keep interfering with the things I reallywould rather be doing. Fortunately though I have managed to sneak in a little fishing, andam making some progress on what I hope will turn out as a Leonard 38clone. Sure hope everyone else is managing a bit more fun... Mike - is it Friday yet - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from rme257@kgv1.bems.boeing.com Wed Jul 17 10:50:27 1996 SMTP id KAA06066 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 199610:50:25 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA249907206; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 08:26:46 -0700 Organization: r-5113 Subject: three piece rods Is there a reason makers make rods over 8 foot as three piece rods as apposed to two piece? Doesn,t the action suffer from the two sets of ferruls interrupting the power fibers. Is this done because at one time all there was was 8 foot culms or is there a reason that nobody in any of the books has not mentioned? Is there any kind of formula for deciding where to put the ferrul if i was to make a 9' Thomas "Dirigo", out west here we have big rivers and most fly fishers use 9' and 10' graphite, but as you and i well know there's nothing like bamboo. Patrick from Rich_Margiotta@cpqm.mail.saic.com Wed Jul 17 11:14:26 1996 SMTP id LAA08201 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 199611:14:24 -0500 09:08:40 -0700 Subject: Varnish choices Subject: Time: 11:40 AMOFFICE MEMO Varnish choices Date: 7/17/96 This may have already been discussed, but being a newbie I'll raise theissueanyway. What are the feelings out there concerning the best varnish fordipping/brushing? I have used Minwax Spar Urethane in my dip tube withgoodresults. It does, however, have a plastic look to it. Any feelings onalternatives, including specific product names? --Rich from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Jul 17 11:30:09 1996 with SMTP id LAA09843 for ; Wed, 17 Jul1996 11:30:07 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 12:28:16 -0400 Subject: Re: Block plane blade angles Congrats Jerry-You have made the same discovery that a lot of the rest of us have -that is that the low (60 1/2) angle plane just doesn't work - That's whyyoudon't see any mention of it in my book or video.Another problem that you will also see is that the bamboo actuallysplits ahead of the blade - following the 'grain' and you will have littleactual control of the final dimensions. from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Jul 17 11:53:26 1996 SMTP id LAA12325 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 11:53:25 -0500 CDT Subject: Re: Silk Fly Lines A few months back, there was much discussion about silk lines andtheir reconditioning. As I recall, detail instructions were postedon exactly how to not only condition the old lines but also howto re-varnish them. I'm sure a little time spent in the RODMAKERS archives will turn upthe messages. The archives can be accessed by pointing your WWW You should be able to use your web browser's FIND function to searcheach month for something like 'silk lines' or such so you won't haveto read each and every message. Mike - browsin' - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from FFer4trout@aol.com Wed Jul 17 15:21:58 1996 with SMTP id PAA27930 for ; Wed, 17 Jul1996 15:21:49 -0500 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 16:20:31 -0400 Subject: I need Mont. Sunbeam Ferrules, please. I hope that there's a pack-rat or two still out there that's still buildingrods. Someone with some old Montague tips or ferrules squirreled away. I'm trying to restore some 9' Sunbeams for my dad and I'm in need of setsofferrules for the tip section to mid-section. I'm trying to get one or more(total 3) rods finished for his 84th birthday. Matched two male/one female sets, if possible. Males, females or amatchedpair of each. These aren't made of NS, just nickel-plated brass ferrules ofthe weird bottle-style that only Mont. used. Or whatever non-cracked pieces that you've got. Full length tips w/woguidesalso considered. Also, a set of mid section to butt ferrules. I know, I know, I'm asking for the impossible. I've got some more modern types ferrules, chromed-guides for spinningrods oreven large spools of NCP thread for trade. Or e-mail me your price or ifyouknow of someone with these ferrules. Thanks in advance, Don Burns from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Jul 17 17:27:50 1996 SMTP id RAA08087 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 199617:27:46 -0500 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA02629; Wed, 17 Jul1996 18:27:34 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Hot Glues for Ferrules Phil You described the "less drastic" measures that I tried.Some days the bamboo gods smile on you and some days they don't. Chris from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Jul 17 19:31:00 1996 with SMTP id TAA13876 for ; Wed, 17 Jul1996 19:30:59 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:30:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Block plane blade angles In a message dated 96-07-17 11:23:50 EDT, you write: Hi jerry: Does anyone have any experience with using a lower plane bladeangle than the 9 1/2 (21 degree angle)? I have been playing witha Stanley 60 1/2 (12 degree angle), which is virtually idential to the9 1/2 except for the blade angle, and I get lots of more (severe)splinteringand tearing around the nodes when planing than I do with the 9 1/2. Me, too. Must be the nature of bamboo. I was hoping that the lower angle could give easier thinner cutsacross the cane. Both blades are have a good 30 degree angle sharpened prior to use -Jerry B. This brings up a question. Has anyone tried any angles steeper than 30dforeither of the planes mentioned? Wonder if there might be some advantagesosuch. Regards,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Jul 17 19:31:02 1996 with SMTP id TAA13881 for ; Wed, 17 Jul1996 19:31:01 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:31:41 -0400 Subject: Re: I need Mont. Sunbeam Ferrules, please. In a message dated 96-07-17 16:35:49 EDT, you write: I've got some more modern types ferrules, chromed-guides for spinningrodsoreven large spools of NCP thread for trade. Or e-mail me your price or ifyouknow of someone with these ferrules. Thanks in advance, Don Burns Hi Don:If you strike out and receive no offers, you might try Baily Wood @:Classic Sporting Enterprises, Roaring Brook RoadRD # 3. Box 3 Pho (802)525-3623Barton, VT 05822 Fax "" -3982 Baily has indicated in the past that he will supply that type ferrule, but itwill be in NS. Good Luck. Regards,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Jul 17 19:31:09 1996 with SMTP id TAA13891 for ; Wed, 17 Jul1996 19:31:07 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 20:31:22 -0400 Subject: Re: three piece rods In a message dated 96-07-17 16:30:53 EDT, you write: Is there a reason makers make rods over 8 foot as three piece rods as apposed to two piece? Doesn,t the action suffer from the two sets of ferruls interrupting the power fibers. Is this done because at one time all there was was 8 foot culms or is there a reason that nobody in any of the books has not mentioned? Is there any kind of formula for deciding where to put the ferrul if i was to make a 9' Thomas "Dirigo", out west here we have big rivers and most fly fishers use 9' and 10' graphite, but as you and i well know there's nothing like bamboo. Patrick Hi Patrick: I think you are on the right track. As a matter of fact, Ireceived a taper from Mikael Marklund of Sweded who built it as a one-peice13-foot spey rod. As far as the ferrules affecting the action, it can be delt with. One way isto use Wayne Cattanach's computer program which will compensate fortheextra weight and displacement of the ferrules. I once had a conversation with Tom Dorsey of T & T concerning theirCaenismodle. It is a 7-1/2, 3-wt. He alluded that as a three piece it was moredesireable because it was toned down/softened a bit vs. as a two piece. Gofigger. Best Regards,Richard Tyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Jul 17 19:31:45 1996 with SMTP id TAA13944 for ; Wed, 17 Jul1996 19:31:43 -0500 Jul 1996 20:31:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Varnish choices In a message dated 96-07-17 16:31:37 EDT, you write: This may have already been discussed, but being a newbie I'll raise theissueanyway. What are the feelings out there concerning the best varnish fordipping/brushing? I have used Minwax Spar Urethane in my dip tube withgoodresults. It does, however, have a plastic look to it. Any feelings onalternatives, including specific product names? --Rich Hi Rich:You might give a look at The Planing Form, two issues back. I put anarticlein there about using Pratt and Lambert Var Mor, a urethane. I am havingreally wonderful results using it (dipping) and George Maurer's "secretsauce" to polish. Of course, the varnish you use may polish ok to get rid of the wet look. There has been a lot on finishes on the list, mostly a few months back. Iwould be glad to e-mail you some of the better listings - just let meknow.It is a variable subject. Seems to me that many, many finishes will work,or at least some one is happy with any particular one. Good Luck,Richard Tyree from FFer4trout@aol.com Wed Jul 17 23:17:21 1996 with SMTP id XAA21812 for ; Wed, 17 Jul1996 23:17:20 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 00:18:09 -0400 Subject: Re: I need Mont. Sunbeam Ferrules, please. Thanks for the feedback. I did try to contact someone in the N.E. some time back about ferrules. Ican't remember who, off-hand, but they were moving the company toFlorida(?). I think I got that person's name from Michael Sinclair's book onProduction Rod Restorations, but I'll need to check. I didn't want to put $45 ferrules (NS) on a $75 rod. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Jul 17 23:25:30 1996 SMTP id XAA22010 for ; Wed, 17 Jul 199623:25:27 -0500 0600 Subject: Re: Block plane blade angles Jerry, I'm sure that I didn't discover it but I found that the higher angled bladessure do make a lot less of a mess of the nodes. I'm presently using 39degrees and have tried up to 45 with some success. Note: that is the angleof the blade only. Have tried a 60 1/2 with more severe angles and found Ididn't like it. Seemed to take more to push it through the cane. Regards, Don At 10:09 16/07/96 -0500, you wrote: It's been quiet on the list lately, so... Does anyone have any experience with using a lower plane bladeangle than the 9 1/2 (21 degree angle)? I have been playing witha Stanley 60 1/2 (12 degree angle), which is virtually idential to the9 1/2 except for the blade angle, and I get lots of more (severe)splinteringand tearing around the nodes when planing than I do with the 9 1/2.I was hoping that the lower angle could give easier thinner cutsacross the cane. Both blades are have a good 30 degree angle sharpened prior to use -Jerry B. from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jul 17 23:58:15 1996 23:58:14 -0500 SMTP(1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA036648226; Wed, 17 Jul 1996 19:03:46 - 0500 Subject: Re: Lonely weerkend Darryl A note from TX If you havn't been to Arcularius Ranch.. check it out for your next trip... n on 395 to the OWENS River rd. turnoff opposite the rest stop just before you get to the June Lake loop..go about 5 Mi. You can also check out Thousand Springs ( origin of the owens)on the way. Huge Browns, almost solitary fishing for 5 mi. Good fishing Jerry from neuneman@fh-ge.de Thu Jul 18 01:28:20 1996 01:28:18 -0500 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA26009; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 08:36:05 +0200 Organization: Fachhochschule Gelsenkirchen (Germany) Subject: Re: Block plane blade angles Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: This brings up a question. Has anyone tried any angles steeper than 30dforeither of the planes mentioned? Wonder if there might be someadvantage sosuch. Regards,RTyree Richard, I tried steeper angles some time ago, but was unable to find anyadvantages. The the cutting edges should stay sharper for a longer time, but I needed morepower to plane. Frank from neuneman@fh-ge.de Thu Jul 18 01:48:47 1996 01:48:44 -0500 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA26053; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 08:56:26 +0200 Organization: Fachhochschule Gelsenkirchen (Germany) Subject: Re: Lonely weerkend Michael Biondo wrote: Yep, been pretty quiet lately. Hopefully everyone is out USING thosenice cane rods instead of being cooped up planing them!!! :-) I for one unfortunately have been doing very little of either! :-(Pesky things like work keep interfering with the things I reallywould rather be doing. Fortunately though I have managed to sneak in a little fishing, andam making some progress on what I hope will turn out as a Leonard 38clone. Sure hope everyone else is managing a bit more fun... Mike - is it Friday yet - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Mike, The same thing happened and still happens to me :-(. Lots of work, not bamboo related and little fishing during weekend. When I finally make it to the river, the fish are not very interested. Frank from neuneman@fh-ge.de Thu Jul 18 02:15:49 1996 02:15:47 -0500 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA26113; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 09:23:34 +0200 Organization: Fachhochschule Gelsenkirchen (Germany) Subject: Re: three piece rods Patrick Coffey wrote: Is there a reason makers make rods over 8 foot as three piece rods asapposed to two piece? Doesn,t the action suffer from the two sets offerruls interrupting the power fibers. Is this done because at one timeall there was was 8 foot culms or is there a reason that nobody in any ofthe books has not mentioned? Is there any kind of formula for decidingwhere to put the ferrul if i was to make a 9' Thomas "Dirigo", out westhere we have big rivers and most fly fishers use 9' and 10' graphite, butas you and i well know there's nothing like bamboo. Patrick Patrick, I think the main reason for making 3-piece rods is to make it easier to transport. Ideally a rod should be one piece, but imagine all those rodsthat would get killed in slammed (car) doors etc. Things get complicated whenyou don't have a large station wagon with a 10 foot rod tube on top :-). Two ferrules are heavier than one ferrule (of course), so they add massand according to Newton's law they contribute to slow down the action, whichin some cases may be desirable. I built a few 3-piece rods and they turned out tobe nice fishing and casting tools. Frank from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Thu Jul 18 08:19:52 1996 IAA07142 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 08:19:50 -0500 Subject: Plane Angles Jerry B. I bought a 60 1/2 Block plane put in a new Hoch Blade use 1000/6000waterstone. Flatten the back and polished to a 30d angle and I'm having trouble with the nodes. The cane is smooth but the nodes have a roughedgetoward the pith. I'm going to shelf the 60 1/2 in favor of an old 9 1/2 I found in a junk store. I belive the blace is old enough not to have any chromium (sp) in it because it had a lot of surface rust on it and itsharpenfairly hard. I may be buying a new Hoch blace. I'm getting the feelingwhenthe old timers (those who have made more than 1 rod) say something thatis generally the way it is. Wayne uses a 9 1/2 by durn use a 9 1/2. I hate itwhen experience always out weigh what I think should be right. Theoldtimersalways know> Bob Berry from rme257@kgv1.bems.boeing.com Thu Jul 18 08:45:19 1996 SMTP id IAA08565 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 199608:45:16 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA156747385; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 06:43:05 -0700 Organization: r-5113 Subject: block plane blade angl The only time a low angle block plane is advantageous is when planing end grain where you want to shear the material not rip it apart as a regularblock plane would do. To achieve less tear out you want to put a steepermicro- bevel on the plane blade and close the throat up to almost nothing.The chip brker is what stops the grain from diving deep. I spent 8 years hand planing curly maple and curly myrtle and tried every conceivable wasfinely tuned (the blade makes good contact with all surfaces),the blade is extremely sharp with a micro bevel and the throat closed almost to nothing. The opening of the the throat to a large degree determines how thick a shaving the plane will remove. The instruments we made (violins,basses and cellos) were made of curley maple and every 1/4" is end grain going one way and then end grain going the other way. We found the most important thing was the throat opening and sharpnes of the blade, we used hard white and hard black arkansas stones with fantastic success. Patrick from HADN@chevron.com Thu Jul 18 09:45:44 1996 SMTP id JAA12238 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 199609:45:41 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 18 Jul 1996 07:44:29 -0700 Thu, 18 Jul 1996 07:44:29 -0700 Subject: RE: Lonely weerkend 4.0.838.14Encoding: 24 TEXT Darryl A note from TX If you havn't been to Arcularius Ranch.. check it out for your next trip... n on 395 to the OWENS River rd. turnoff opposite the rest stop just before you get to the June Lake loop..go about 5 Mi. You can also check out Thousand Springs ( origin of the owens)on the way. Huge Browns, almost solitary fishing for 5 mi. Good fishing Jerry Yes, I've been there, but you have to stay at the ranch to beable to fish on the property. With a total of six people (myfamily and my parents), it would be a bit pricey. By the waythe owners are trying to sell the ranch. Do you have a spare7 million? Darryl Hayashida from KilchsGray@aol.com Thu Jul 18 10:57:12 1996 ; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 10:57:10 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 11:57:22 -0400 Subject: Re: three piece rods In a message dated 96-07-17 20:42:56 EDT, you write: Hi Patrick: I think you are on the right track. As a matter of fact, Ireceived a taper from Mikael Marklund of Sweded who built it as a one-peice13-foot spey rod. Dear Richard, If it is neither inconvenient nor a state secret, could you pleasepost/email Mikael Marklund's taper for his 13' spey? A great deal of inkhasbeen spilled on the issue of what constitutes a 'true' spey rod; I am surethat the answer lies in the stress curve, i.e., are spey rods parabolic,progressive, or something in between? I hope to convince DarrylHayashida orone of the other computer experts to help me with this burning, crucial,world-shaking question... Thanks for any help. Roger Wiggin from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Jul 18 14:12:36 1996 OAA29419 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:12:33-0500 PAA16797 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:11:21 (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA15926 for; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 15:11:18 - 0400 Subject: Ferrules Two questions today.................. 1. When is it appropriate to use the short truncated ferrules versusregularlength ? 2. Did someone recently say they had been able to put spliced splines(Titebond II) in an oven for heat treating without a failure ? Seems likesuch a point came up, but couldn't find it in the archives. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from jonrc@atlantic.net Thu Jul 18 14:33:36 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA00318 for; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:33:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrules Karl Hube wrote: Two questions today.................. 1. When is it appropriate to use the short truncated ferrules versusregularlength ? Karl, I use the truncated ferrules for my three piece rods. As far a I know,that is what they are designed for. I did notice that on Chris's Big Dog Rod, he used onetruncated and one regular ferrule. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and time again.Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together, the fly is taken and thefamiliar pulsating tension is felt running the length of the cane rod allowing the angler justa glimpse of the mystery below the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from 76250.1771@CompuServe.COM Thu Jul 18 14:36:28 1996 OAA00430 for ; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 14:36:27-0500 Subject: Silk Fly Lines Ralph-George Parker Holden's ,1931, "Angling Recollections And Practices"has achapter on "Home Dressing of Fly Lines". He describes how to dress a newlineand how to renovate used lines. If you don't have a copy at home or at theFFFcenter e-mail me and I'll xerox and mail you a copy of the chapter.Dennis Higham from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Jul 18 18:48:53 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA10574 for; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 18:48:50 -0500 TAA26965; Thu, 18 Jul 1996 19:48:39 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Ferrules Karl Normally you can heat treat the cane prior to splicing. Aftersplicing no need for heat - - unless your glue needs a heat cure (Nyatex).Titebond or Titebond-II can suffer from heat - some days you can win andothers - oh hell!! I reccomend using heat very spareingly around theseglues. Truncated ferrules. for most 3 + piece rods they are appropriatesince less mass. On larger rods (9'+) then it up to choice since each section is as long as say one section of a 6-7' two piece. Chris from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Fri Jul 19 07:58:18 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA29790 for; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 07:58:13 -0500 Subject: Hexrod Explaination To Wayne Cattanach from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Fri Jul 19 08:24:51 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00826 for; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 08:24:49 -0500 Subject: Hexrod Explaination To Wayne Cattanach or others who understand Hexrod Is there a written explaination anywhere that tell what the prints out ofHexrod mean? I understand what "DIMEN" is but the rest I don'tunderestnd.In graphing the stress curve graph where does the figure "thousand inchounces"come from? I can get the X axis of inches ok. Is there a new Hexrod beingdeveloped that is compatable with Exel 5.0. If so when and where will itbe available? To Patrick Coffey;Did you receive the fax on the fro? I was reluctant to send it outsinceI havn't finished my own fro as a matter of fact a welder friend is cuttingit pieceof an Oak log. The idea has got to be the same and that is to start the cutandthen wedge the wood (bamboo) by twisting (pulling the handle out ofparallelwith the stock) the handle. It would seem that when you hit a node acoupleof taps would be in order to get through. If this is not correct let meknowor someone let me know. I don't wnat to be burning Bamboo in thefireplace thiswinter. O yea Wayne is a bending moment a time when you are picking up a dime intheparking lot? Bob Berry -almost a flatland Flyfisher from arqmmao@dow.on.doe.ca Fri Jul 19 09:14:50 1996 JAA02900 for ; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 09:14:49 -0500 (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA235705613; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 10:13:33 -0400 Subject: Re: Ferrules Hi Karl . I used a truncated ferrule on my first rod 7' 4 wt 2 pc. Wayne C. taper.A bunch of people have cast it and everyone realy liked it. I think thetruncated ferrules can be used on any 2 piece rod, and on any butt to midon 3 piece rods. They may be a bit too short in the smaller sizes (ie themid to tip in a 3 piece.) Just my 0.02.Mauro On Thu, 18 Jul 1996, Karl Hube wrote: Two questions today.................. 1. When is it appropriate to use the short truncated ferrules versusregularlength ? 2. Did someone recently say they had been able to put spliced splines(Titebond II) in an oven for heat treating without a failure ? Seems likesuch a point came up, but couldn't find it in the archives. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from TKirkpat@clw.unisysgsg.com Fri Jul 19 09:19:51 1996 with SMTP id JAA03139 for ; Fri, 19 Jul1996 09:19:49 -0500 EDT Subject: Re: Ferrules Encoding: 16 TEXT To Jonathan Clarke=Twin Pines Rod Co.=http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc I took a look at your home page. Looks good. The photos are great. I like the way you've given graphic examples of your work. It loads fairly quickly too. For me that's a real plus. You might think about the background. To me it takes away from the text. (It could be the way my computer is reading the colors?? For me any background makes the text hard to read.) Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor Flu from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jul 19 09:59:18 1996 ; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 09:59:16 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 10:59:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Hexrod Explaination Bob (and others with the same question)Over the years I have given several explainations of Mr. Garrisons Roddesign idea - with so - so results. There needs to be a simple explainationcreated. And believe it or not your picking up a dime in a parking lot isn'ta bad example. Follow along:In normal use the principles Mr. Garrison used are for calculating the'safety' of members (individual components) of structures (houses -bridgesand such). Using formulas and standardized test charts of variousmaterials aperson can calculate - how much snow load a roof can support - or howmuchweight a bridge can support - By investigating the individual members.Normal the design is keyed to limiting or minimizing the deflection ofthe members - the floor of a house would be a good example - the buildingcodes call for limiting the deflection of a floor joist to 1/360 of the totalspan - using the f(b) element of a certain type of wood -a person cancalculate the size joist needed to support a certain live (people - snow)load and dead (wood - steel) load.Well altering this system a bit Mr. Garrison developed his method usingthe same math but instead of using fixed f(b) factors he altered thesenumbers to alter the flex of the fly rod. It works backwards of what youmignt think - if the f(b) value is low the stiffer and the Higher the f(b)value the more flexible. Think of it this way for a dime you might slowlystoop to pick it up but for a 'C' note you are going to have fastermovement.To achieve the dimensions the 'moments of interia' are calculated andthe applying these against the f(b) you reach dimensions that account fortheweight of the different elements of the fly rod(fly line cast- bambooweight- ferrules) By raising and lowering the f(b) values you will either slow themovement of energy flowing through that point or increase the flow ofenergyat that point.Now looking at a f(b) curve you will see that at the tip(rod wise) thevalues are high - so the rod is more flexable. And as you progress to thebutt(rod wise) the values are lower - so that the action of the rod stiffenstowards the butt. The f(b) only shows the character of a rod - you candevelope a #2 weight rod and a #6 weight using the same f(b) curveyieldingrods that will share the same character but with dimensions appropiate totherod size(weight).If this doesn't help please let me know - I am determined to come upwith an explanation of the whole matter sooner or later. Perhpas morestreamside study is required - That's it!! - I need to go fishing thisweekend and make personal observations to further the cause. Great Idea !! Off to Grayrock Wayne from TKirkpat@clw.unisysgsg.com Fri Jul 19 10:38:17 1996 with SMTP id KAA06560 for ; Fri, 19 Jul1996 10:38:15 -0500 EDT Subject: Wayne - std measurement yet? Encoding: 15 TEXT Before I went on vacation, some question was raised about how one should give the Actual measurement on a hex rod taper. i.e.; station sizes (5in. .07 -- 10in. .11 etc,ect.) The question was ask how the list felt about coming up with a standard, My only suggestion was if we're giving all three measurement we specify clock wise or counter clock wise, and viewed from the tip or the butt. Was any conclusion reached or did everyone go fishing? Terry Kirkpatrick Safety Harbor, Flu from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jul 19 19:40:04 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA26579 for; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:40:03 -0500 SMTP(1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA273763132; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 19:38:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Wayne - std measurement yet? Terry Speaking for what I could perceive.. I think most of the guy's with mic's agreed that starting with the guide flats and going some direction was benificial ? absolutly perhaps.. I think 5in increments is a default because of the tapering forms.. I wish however we could get everyone to measure on even in. increments (except the tip,butt?) because the programs that expand the data to get stresses work better that way no hope Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jul 19 20:51:46 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27738 for; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:51:45 -0500 SMTP(1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA043367434; Fri, 19 Jul 1996 20:50:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Hexrod Explaination Bob,all I mounted an excel 5 hexrod version on the archive under stuff. It's in raw format so just clicking on it should download it. I need someone with a DOS/WIN machine to download and test it from the arc. It's not as complete as I would like yet (Chris) but all the functions seem to be pretty bug free. I also placed a few tapers on line, namely, Chris,AJ, and Payne. Would someone give me some feedback before I go on. Thanx Jerry from jonrc@atlantic.net Sat Jul 20 15:04:55 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15078 for; Sat, 20 Jul 1996 15:04:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrules Thanks for the comments on my page. I think I will be changing the background. I wont be at the Aug meeting, I'll be in Colorado, so see ya' in September.-- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and time again. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running the length of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mystery below the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from mstevens@prolog.net Sat Jul 20 21:02:29 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA23016 for ;Sat, 20 Jul 1996 21:02:24 - 0500 ns1.ptd.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA00269 for Subject: Heddon #17 Black Beauty My first post to the group. Looking for opinion. I picked up a Heddon #17 8 1/2 Black Beauty today at a local flea market.It's in almost new condition except for the cork grip which has a coat ofvarnish over it. My question is whether this is something Heddon did? Ihave never looked at a Heddon before. I doubt that it is but want to besure. Suppose some varnish remover carefully applied would do the job ofremoving it. Then some light sanding? I definately had a good day. I may have an oportunity to make a rod this winter using someone else'sequipment and expertise. Looking forward to that. Mike Stevens The Stevens Familymstevens@prolog.net from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Sun Jul 21 08:12:13 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA27970 for; Sun, 21 Jul 1996 08:12:11 -0500 Subject: brushing varnish I recently finished varnishing my first rod with a brush and have one ortwo things to report to any neophyter-than-I: 1). It can be done with very good results, though I'm quite sure dippingiseasier and produces a generally better finish. 2). Thinner is better when using a brush--it may take a bit longer todryand that means more exposure to dust, but brush marks aren't nearly asmuch aproblem as with thick varnish: aren's really a problem at all. I wonder, though, why it wouldn't be possible to varnish the rod withoutthe guides, then wrap, then varnish the wraps. I suspect that this mightbe aslightly better way to varnish with a brush, though when dipping therewouldbe no reason not to dip the completed rod. Any thoughts on this? On the whole I would have to say that dipping is more of a hassle to setup, but less of a hassle to varnish; the reverse is true of the brush.Probably depends on how many rods you propose to make. --Mark Freedfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from wishbone@headwaters.com Sun Jul 21 10:13:53 1996 ; Sun, 21 Jul 1996 10:13:50 -0500 ns1.bellglobal.com (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id KAA21491 for; Sun, 21 Jul 1996 10:12:36 -0400 (5.65/1.1.8.2/12Aug95-0226PM) Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: brushing varnish Priority: normal I have found a great product for finishing and refinishing. It is called "PermaGloss" and is made by U40. It is a urethane type of finish, but is very thin, brushes easily, and if not put on thickly has virtually no bubble problems. You will be required to use several coats though. Hope this may help anyone still looking for a suitable finish. May be worth a try! Regards,Ian ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jul 21 21:06:25 1996 ; Sun, 21 Jul 1996 21:06:22 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 21 Jul 1996 22:04:25 -0400 Subject: Oops I just received the current issue of The Planing Form and was readingofthe gatherings planned for next year - apparently Ron missed theRodmakers atGrayrock '97' & Trout Bum BBQ III. Yes, it will be the third year for the gettogether at Grayling June 20 - 21,1997. Well, that's the 'official' dates - lasted Although there was no published announcement - thursday night therewas(is again next year) a picnic & fish at Whispering Pines (Frank Loves) placewith riverboat runs going to the 'Horse Camp' or Long's or where ever.Another event that didn't get any press was a Pizza & BYOB friday nightat the clubhouse. It was supposed to be a social for hands on things and flytying demo. This year Larry Blan demonstrated how he does his mice. LuisMarden promises a report on there use in Labador this fall.Now that Ron has chose to put his efforts into the get together inCanada - it, I guess, is up to us (those wanting to attend) to plan and carryoff Grayrock '97'. Any Idea or suggestions ?????? Wayne from TKirkpat@clw.unisysgsg.com Mon Jul 22 09:06:13 1996 with SMTP id JAA19310 for ; Mon, 22 Jul1996 09:06:09 -0500 EDT Subject: Re: Ferrules Encoding: 31 TEXT Jonathan,=Thanks for the comments on my page. I think I will be changing the=background. I wont be at the Aug meeting, I'll be in Colorado, so see ya'=in September. My c