from 100423.176@CompuServe.COM Sun Sep 1 14:38:38 1996 OAA13760 for ; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 14:38:37-0500 Subject: Straightenning Blank Sections I want to know how to go about straightening bent rod sections. I juststrippedan old bamboo rod and the mid and tip sections have a gentle curve. How can they be straightened? Is it worth the bother? George Richardson M.D.Hirschhorn, Germanywriting at 9:28 PM,on Sunday, September 01, 1996 from caneman@clnk.com Sun Sep 1 16:16:50 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA15312 for; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 16:16:48 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA178 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Straightenning Blank Sections Ltc George Richardson wrote: I want to know how to go about straightening bent rod sections. I juststrippedan old bamboo rod and the mid and tip sections have a gentle curve. How can they be straightened? Is it worth the bother? George Richardson M.D.Hirschhorn, Germanywriting at 9:28 PM,on Sunday, September 01, 1996George,There are two relative simple methods of straightening bentsections. The least expensive is with an small alcohol lamp andeasiest is with a heat gun. Either way, you heat the section andgently bend it a little past straight, allow it to cool and release.Be careful not to burn the bamboo. You will have to straighten eachsection several times until it is to your satisfaction. Bob from Mikael.Marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.SE Sun Sep 1 16:33:43 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15656 for; Sun, 1 Sep 1996 16:33:41 -0500 skeria.skelleftea.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) 1.21);1 Sep 96 23:34:25 MET DST 23:34:22 MET DST 1 Sep 96 23:34:19 MET DSTComments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: Straightenning Blank SectionsPriority: normal From: Ltc George Richardson Subject: Straightenning Blank Sections I want to know how to go about straightening bent rod sections. I juststrippedan old bamboo rod and the mid and tip sections have a gentle curve. How can they be straightened? Is it worth the bother? George Richardson M.D.Hirschhorn, Germanywriting at 9:28 PM,on Sunday, September 01, 1996 I use my toaster. You can make the opening smaller by using aluminiumfoil. As a precaution I wrap the rod part with thread - You neverknow what happens when You heat these old rods.Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm from caneman@clnk.com Mon Sep 2 15:37:00 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA02522 for; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 15:36:58 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA64 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Web Sites Does anyone besides me have a web site for thier rod business. If so,let me know... I would like to compare to see how bad mine really is.Check out mine at http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm and rip me apart.Good Critique is the best teacher. This was my first experience withMarked Up HTML language, so make any suggestions you can.Thanks,Bob Nunley from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Mon Sep 2 21:23:52 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA11653 for; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 21:23:37 -0500 KAA14385; Tue, 3 Sep 1996 10:22:09 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Web Sites On Mon, 2 Sep 1996, Robert Nunley Jr. wrote: Does anyone besides me have a web site for thier rod business. If so,let me know... I would like to compare to see how bad mine really is.Check out mine at http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm and rip me apart.Good Critique is the best teacher. This was my first experience withMarked Up HTML language, so make any suggestions you can.Thanks,Bob Nunley I've got one that's realy just a means of letting fellow Aussies knowthere is a source of Tonkin Cane here now.http://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmltony from mstevens@prolog.net Mon Sep 2 22:46:36 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA13316 for; Mon, 2 Sep 1996 22:46:34 - 0500 ns1.ptd.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA02071 for Subject: Re: Web Sites Does anyone besides me have a web site for thier rod business. If so,let me know... I would like to compare to see how bad mine really is.Check out mine at http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm and rip me apart.Good Critique is the best teacher. This was my first experience withMarked Up HTML language, so make any suggestions you can.Thanks,Bob Nunley Here are three sites I have found: http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc/ Jonathon Clarke http://www.kaiwan.com/~mrbamboo/ Whitely Rods http://www.iea.com/~mruhe/ Bitterroot Rods Mark A. Ruhe I'm sure there are others. Mike Stevens Michael Stevens mstevens@prolog.net from Rich_Margiotta@cpqm.mail.saic.com Wed Sep 4 08:47:42 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA24768 for; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 08:47:37 -0500 06:45:49 -0700 Subject: Source for silk thread Subject: Time: 9:11 AMOFFICE MEMO Source for silk thread Date: 9/4/96 This may be old news, but I have found another source for silk thread. Thebrand name is "Tire" and its available from:Quilter's CornerP.O. Box 2024Martinez, CA 94553Ph/FAX: 510-228-2940E-Mail: QC_Inc@msn.comInternet: http://www.qcx.com They offer 171 colors all in Size 50, which I believe is between 00 and A. Ifyou send a SASE, they will send an order form and a small sample. For$12.00they will send a color card. I haven't yet ordered any thread but I will doso in the near future and will report back. The small sample they sent hadanice, tight weave (no fraying). Cost is $4.25 per 100 meter spool withdiscounts for quantity. --Rich from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Sep 4 09:54:28 1996 ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 09:54:26 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 10:53:43 -0400 Subject: Is someone bringing a laptop????? I just discovered that the laptop that I normally use (owned by theschool) has a kaput battery and may not be fixed by the time that I (we)leave tomorrow night. Does anyone that is coming to the Catskills have alaptop that they can bring? then we can play computer games!!! Wayne from caneman@clnk.com Wed Sep 4 15:46:09 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA16877 for; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 15:45:49 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA173 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Source for silk thread Rich Margiotta wrote: Subject: Time: 9:11 AMOFFICE MEMO Source for silk thread Date: 9/4/96 This may be old news, but I have found another source for silk thread. Thebrand name is "Tire" and its available from:Quilter's CornerP.O. Box 2024Martinez, CA 94553Ph/FAX: 510-228-2940E-Mail: QC_Inc@msn.comInternet: http://www.qcx.comEveryone... Same line is also carried by:Things Japanese9805 NE 116th St. Suite 7160Kirkland, WA. 98034-1187Ph 206-821-2287 This is the silk I use on my rods. Last batch I bought was $4.30 a 100meter spool and $44.10 per 1200meter spool (this is the way to go if youonly use one color. Will last forever). Bob Nunley from wishbone@headwaters.com Wed Sep 4 17:29:07 1996 ; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 17:29:05 -0500 ns1.bellglobal.com (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id SAA22774 for; Wed, 4 Sep 1996 18:25:32 -0400 (5.65/1.1.8.2/12Aug95-0226PM) Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: Web Sites Priority: normal Date: Mon, 2 Sep 1996 23:45:32 -0400 From: mstevens@prolog.net (Michael Stevens) Subject: Re: Web Sites Does anyone besides me have a web site for thier rod business. If so,let me know... I would like to compare to see how bad mine really is.Check out mine at http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm and rip me apart.Good Critique is the best teacher. This was my first experience withMarked Up HTML language, so make any suggestions you can.Thanks,Bob Nunley Here are three sites I have found: http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc/ Jonathon Clarke http://www.kaiwan.com/~mrbamboo/ Whitely Rods http://www.iea.com/~mruhe/ Bitterroot Rods Mark A. Ruhe I'm sure there are others. Mike Stevens Michael Stevens mstevens@prolog.net You did not stipulate cane rod building, so check out my site aswell, at: http://www.headwaters.com/wishbone Wishbone Custom Rods Regards,Ian ScottWishbone Custom Rods wishbone@headwaters.comhttp://credit.headwaters.com/wishbone ********************************************************************************************* "The butterfly counts not months but moments,and has time enough." Rabindranath TagoreFireflies, 1928 from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Sep 5 10:08:37 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22572 for; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:08:36 -0500 Subject: Second Tip Syndrome?? Got to thinking the other day about the second tip we usually build any longer. Or, do we continue to provide them out of tradition? As I understand it, historically the second tip was provided todistribute the wear&tear of the tip section between the two tips.I can understand this in the old days of inferior adhesives andintermediate wraps, but with our modern adhesives is it reallynecessary to 'baby' our tip sections to that degree? I know several of you rodmakers out there offer the option of oneor two tip rods. If you sell a one tip rod, do you worry aboutthat rod's life-expectancy? If a potential customer asks you ifthey _need_ two tips, how do you explain it to them? Just some of life's little nagging questions... :-) Mike - tip challenged - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Got a chance to use a Lie-Nelsonscraper on the rod I'm working on. What a joy to use!!! Took a full10minutes off time it takes me to go from rough-planed strips tofinished strip. Got to get me one of these!!! OGN (Obligatory Grayrock Note): Made a pilgrimage to Grayrock overLaborDay weekend! Met up with Wayne, and Grayrock local, fellowlistmember Victor Edwards. Through the efforts of Wayne, Wayne's sonMatt, and Victor I had two great days of fishing on the Manistee andthe Ausable. Wayne, Matt, Victor...thanks guys, I really appreciate it! from gord@teleport.com Thu Sep 5 10:22:52 1996 KAA23289 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:22:50 -0500 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14493 for ; Subject: Re: Second Tip Syndrome?? I suffer from a different "Second Tip Syndrome". I have a collection ofsecond tip blanks. They just don't seem to get wrapped although a fewhavebeen ferruled. This is good news for those wondering (myself included)about the degredation of a tip during use. There's always a possibilitythat one day I'll wrap one & be able to side by side compare a 3 or 4 yearold single tip against a fresh one. Cheers, Gordon At 12:39 AM 9/5/96 CDT, you wrote:Got to thinking the other day about the second tip we usually build any longer. Or, do we continue to provide them out of tradition? As I understand it, historically the second tip was provided todistribute the wear&tear of the tip section between the two tips.I can understand this in the old days of inferior adhesives andintermediate wraps, but with our modern adhesives is it reallynecessary to 'baby' our tip sections to that degree? I know several of you rodmakers out there offer the option of oneor two tip rods. If you sell a one tip rod, do you worry aboutthat rod's life-expectancy? If a potential customer asks you ifthey _need_ two tips, how do you explain it to them? Just some of life's little nagging questions... :-) Mike - tip challenged - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Got a chance to use a Lie-Nelsonscraper on the rod I'm working on. What a joy to use!!! Took a full10minutes off time it takes me to go from rough-planed strips tofinished strip. Got to get me one of these!!! OGN (Obligatory Grayrock Note): Made a pilgrimage to Grayrock overLaborDay weekend! Met up with Wayne, and Grayrock local, fellowlistmember Victor Edwards. Through the efforts of Wayne, Wayne's sonMatt, and Victor I had two great days of fishing on the Manistee andthe Ausable. Wayne, Matt, Victor...thanks guys, I really appreciate it! from caneman@clnk.com Thu Sep 5 10:47:01 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA24954 for; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 10:46:59 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA197 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Second Tip Syndrome?? I offer two tips with my rods, but not for "wear and tear" concerns. tapers and I give the customer a choice of any two tips. Bob Nunley At 12:39 AM 9/5/96 CDT, you wrote:Got to thinking the other day about the second tip we usually build any longer. Or, do we continue to provide them out of tradition? I know several of you rodmakers out there offer the option of oneor two tip rods. If you sell a one tip rod, do you worry aboutthat rod's life-expectancy? If a potential customer asks you ifthey _need_ two tips, how do you explain it to them? Mike - tip challenged - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Got a chance to use a Lie-Nelsonscraper on the rod I'm working on. What a joy to use!!! Took a full10minutes off time it takes me to go from rough-planed strips tofinished strip. Got to get me one of these!!! OGN (Obligatory Grayrock Note): Made a pilgrimage to Grayrock overLaborDay weekend! Met up with Wayne, and Grayrock local, fellowlistmember Victor Edwards. Through the efforts of Wayne, Wayne's sonMatt, and Victor I had two great days of fishing on the Manistee andthe Ausable. Wayne, Matt, Victor...thanks guys, I really appreciate it! from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Sep 5 11:05:52 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA26130 for; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 11:05:51 -0500 (4.1/SMI-4.0); Thu, 5 Sep 96 01:37:15 CDT LAA21165 for ; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 Subject: Qs about scraper construction I don't have a L-N scraper. I'd like to try to make a wood bodiedscraper to take a thick blade like the L-N. I've got a couplequestions about the blade. 1. I've used handheld scraper blades and also a Stanley #80 cabinetscraper for other woodworking, and have always turned a "hook".I noticed in Wayne's video that his L-N scraper blade was justsharp, no hook was turned. Is this the way its done? 2. Is 45 degrees a good angle for the blade bevel? 3. Somebody had plans for a wood bodied scraper. Did they evermake it on the 'net? I might have missed it.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Sep 5 12:40:24 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00297 for; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 12:40:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Qs about scraper construction Frank seez... I don't have a L-N scraper. I'd like to try to make a wood bodiedscraper to take a thick blade like the L-N. I've got a couplequestions about the blade. 1. I've used handheld scraper blades and also a Stanley #80 cabinetscraper for other woodworking, and have always turned a "hook".I noticed in Wayne's video that his L-N scraper blade was justsharp, no hook was turned. Is this the way its done? I think the 'accepted' method of using handheld scraper blades forwoodworking is to turn the edge, as you you have been doing Frank.Also fellow listmember, George Barnes recommends this and gives detailinstructions in his rodmaking book. However, I have always had problemswith chatter marks with a turned edge. I started using just thesquared edge, and it works quite well. Just doesn't cut quite as fast. 2. Is 45 degrees a good angle for the blade bevel? I think Wayne uses 30 degrees for his L-N scraper blades so he canuse the same guide as his plane blades. Wayne? beveling at 30 degrees also before turning the edge. George? 3. Somebody had plans for a wood bodied scraper. Did they evermake it on the 'net? I might have missed it. A while back, Wayne posted the directions for making a wood-bodiedscraper that used a standard plane blade. I dug it out of thearchives and will attach it at the end of this. I just received aphotograph of one of the wood-bodied scrapers that Wayne made.As soon as I can get it scanned I'll get it into the archives. Mike - just scrapin' by - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =From: WayneCatt@aol.comSubject: DYI - Wooden Body Scraper The following was written for the planing form but I thought that itmight make a good wintertime project for some - I will be sending Mike Bsomeimage file to go with this so watch for them Wood Bodied Scraper There is nothing to compare with the grace, beauty, andfunction of one of Tom Lie - Neilsen's bronze bodied scrapers.Recently on our internet group a fellow from California finallybroke down and bought one leaving his cabinet scraper behindforever. Perhaps the reluctance to try one is the $115.00 cost.Another purchase to justify.Remembering back, I was about to buy a wooden bodied scraperthat I saw in the Garrett - Wade catalog when Tom started producinghis. About two years ago I was reminded of this unit and set out tosee if a person could make their own. Since then I've built a totalof three in varying fashions and they work reasonably well. Thefirst is now owned by Carlos Santos, who helped text edit my book.I fabricated it around the blade that Tom supplies with his scraperwhich is 1 3/8" in width. Since then I have widened the body toaccept the 1 5/8" Hock blade from the Stanley planes I have. Thesecond was donated to the Luis Marden Museum of Bamboo Rod Makingand Flyfishing Antiquities. The third I've kept a tight grip on.Now for the purist of wooden planes tiger stripe maple may notbe the accurate wood to use but I had it so I used it. If anythingit makes the scraper look cute. When finished with the Hock bladethe unit weighs in at about 8 ounces which is light in comparisonto the one pound plus of bronze that i was used to. But it's veryworkable. The adjusting with the blade wedge is a little bitfussier but once you hit that sweet spot it will wisp away .00025"shavings with the best of them.I quess that there are no real bounds for dimensions but theunits I've made are about 5" long 2" high and 2 1/4" wide. Infabricating the scraper there are 5 pieces total. But only 3thicknesses of wood. The core is an exact 1 5/8" which is 1/32"wider than the Hock blade. The sides are 5/16" and the wedge can becut from anything thicker that 1/2".Our local wood store surfaces their wood at 3/4" and 7/8" soI bought a bit of each which cost about $7.00. The core is made bygluing (2) 7/8" thick pieces together and trimming to 1 5/8". Imade the core 2" high X 8" long. For the sides I split a 3/4" thickboard for (2) 2" high X 5" long X 5/16" pieces.The back core piece is cut to length with a 3 degree slope andis about 2 3/4" long. the front core need a shaving relief so it isfirst cut to 60 degrees then a 1/2" deep trough is cut into the 60degree sloped side leaving a 1/4" on each side for wedge seating.Then the angle is recut to 78 degrees so that the new cut and thetrough angle make a sharp point at the bottom face surface. Withthe core blocks cut the sides are then glued on so that the bottomis flat and there is a 7/32" gap between the front and back cores.Any glue squeezed into the wedge area should be removed before it'sdry.When the glue is dry the 'block' is trimmed up to the desiredlength. I profile the 'block' to a more traditional look with aband saw and then round the corners with a router mounted on atable as a shaper.To finish the scraper a wedge is cut to 15 degrees and justwide enough to slip into the slot and long enough to be easilyworked (2 1/4"). With the slot cleaned up you drop the blade intoplace and try the wedge. At first the wedge may extend past thebottom of the scraper. In practice I have found that if the wedgeis trimmed to end up 1/8" inside the body works best.As a finish up the bottom should be sanded on a sheet ofplexiglass and a finish applied. I used a dark wood stain followed Even if you have a bronze bodied scraper this can be anenjoyable project. But if you are still using a cabinet scraper andgrumbling everytime you have a chipping node do yourself a favorand make one. Wayne Cattanach As you can tell from the send times and dates I finally gave in toloading AOL on my home computer - that way I can respond better from hadn@chevron.com Thu Sep 5 23:58:01 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01010 for; Thu, 5 Sep 1996 23:57:58 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:57:13 -0700 Thu, 5 Sep 1996 21:57:13 -0700 Subject: RE: Qs about scraper construction 4.0.838.14Encoding: 28 TEXT 2. Is 45 degrees a good angle for the blade bevel? I think Wayne uses 30 degrees for his L-N scraper blades so he canuse the same guide as his plane blades. Wayne? beveling at 30 degrees also before turning the edge. George? I'm not Wayne or George, but I've had some experience with boththe handheld blades and the L-N scraper. The L-N scraper bladehas to be sharpened at an angle a lot steeper (closer to perpendicular)than the 25 to 30 deg. that plane blades are sharpened. I just measuredmine at 60 degrees. Scraper blades should be sharpened at this anglebecause the way that a scraper blade is used, the edge doesn't get dull,per se, you end up wearing an arch or little rounded gap in the edge ofyour blade. The thicker edge stands up to a lot more use with out having to resharpen as much. You can burnish a hook on the L-N scraper bladeafter you have sharpened it, but this makes the L-N scraper veryaggressive,and a lot more difficult to take off very thin shavings. The Veritasbladesharpening guide, due to the design, can be used to sharpen thescraper blade at the steeper angle. Darryl Hayashida from 100423.176@CompuServe.COM Fri Sep 6 03:54:31 1996 DAA06509 for ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 03:54:30-0500 Subject: Fitting Ferrules Hi everybody! First of all I'd just like to thank all you guys who have done your best toanswer my questions up to this point. Here's another.... After stripping one of the two Montague rods I recently obtained (this onewitha partial decal identifying it as a "Rapidan") I removed the old ferrules. It'spretty obvious they were all replacements that didn't fit the rod except female ferrule on the middle section which was pinned. The replacement job wasn't professionally done but I expect "UncleCharlie" (theoriginal owner) used a pocket knife for the job. I am now left with thefollowing measurements for the three sections of the rod: Butt Section: 35 3/8" long with 1 3/4" of the business end whittled down replacement ferrule to a diameter of .265"(17/64) ,but measuring at thejunctionof the carved up part with the untouched rod flat to flat .320"(20/64"+). Middle Section: 30 7/8" long with 1 3/4" of butt end whittled down to.240"(about 16/64") and measuring flat to flat .280" (18/64") ,and then atthetip end 1 1/8" whittled to .170 (about 11/64") and .200" (13/64") flat toflat. Tip Section: 28 3/8" long .170" (11/64") flat to flat at the butt end. I hadto cut this ferrule off as it had been crimped in place with pliers. There is a big difference between the butt and mid section diameters. Thewhittled ends are variable in diameter (not very carefully done). InitiallyIthought I would just cut off the whittled ends. If I were to shorten theButtto 33 1/2" I'd be installing a ferrule onto the end which would graduatefromabout 21/64" to 20/64". If I shortened the middle section to 27 3/4" Iwouldhave a butt end of this section measuring about .260" (17/64") along about11/2" of that end. If I didn't cut off the whittled ends there would still beadiscrepancy between them of about 1/64" not to mention how it wouldlook (notmuch better than the replacement job Uncle Charlie did) or how it wouldworkmechanically. I looked at new ferrules from Angler's Workshop and they are availablefrom9/64" up to 19/64". Jim Britt at Angler's suggested I buy 18/64" and19/64"ferrule sets for the junction between the butt section and the middlesection ashe was "worried about the difference in diameters." Right. At $33.95 a set. I'm not sure whether he means that I would usethefemale of one set with the male of the other or that he isn't sure whichsetwould work best. Any suggestions and/or alternatives? Other sources for ferrules thatmightavoid the above expenditure? George Richardson M.D.Hirschhorn, Germanywriting at 10:41 AM,on Friday, September 06, 1996 from jfoster@gte.net Fri Sep 6 09:17:39 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15138 for; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:17:37 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP -0500 Subject: Re: Qs about scraper construction Mike - all I have a scanner. If you'd like anything archived just send me thegraphics, pics, etc. and i'll post it for you or distribute it howeveryou'd like jwf Jerry Foster175 Browncliff Ct.Double Oak, Tx.75067 from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Fri Sep 6 09:21:38 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15502 for; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:21:36 -0500 IAA00596; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 08:20:35 -0600 Subject: guide finishes I have finished a couple of rods, have used tung oil varnish and have beenpleased at the results. However on the guides I used a spar varnish andhave had some problems getting it as smooth as I would like. I have beenusing a clock motor that runs @ 6rpm, but several of the wraps seem tohave dimples or other blemishes. Is there a better finish than the sparvarnish that will be compatible with the tung oil varnish? I would liketo know what others are using and how their experiences have been. Jim from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Sep 6 09:46:01 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA16972 for; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:46:00 -0500 Subject: RE: Qs about scraper construction Darryl seez...to what I sed... I think Wayne uses 30 degrees for his L-N scraper blades so he canuse the same guide as his plane blades. Wayne? beveling at 30 degrees also before turning the edge. George? I'm not Wayne or George, but I've had some experience with boththe handheld blades and the L-N scraper. The L-N scraper bladehas to be sharpened at an angle a lot steeper (closer to perpendicular)than the 25 to 30 deg. that plane blades are sharpened. I just measuredmine at 60 degrees. Yep, that's the way come. However, having borrowed one of Wayne'sLie- Neilsen scrapers, he indeed does use the same angle on his scraperblades as his plane blades, and I can say it works quite well. I supposethe advantage is that you do not have to reset you sharpening guide forthe two different blades. It seems that either angle cuts equally well.If I recall, Wayne posted about this a while back. Mike - angle of the dangle - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Well, if finally happened...justfinishing up the 4th strip of the second butt section, for the pairof Leonard 38 clones I'm working on...there it was, _TDWH_ ('TheDreaded WORM Hole') Damn!!! I've never come across one before.And to add insult to injury, the hole was almost dead center in themiddle of the section! The weird thing was that there was no hole onthe surface. Only upon real close examination with a glass, could yousee a slight mark on the surface, but you could sure see the little blackcrater the critter left behind under the surface when it was uncovered bythe plane. So now I have to decide how to best deal with it. I figureI can either start from scratch with a whole new strip, or try to splicein a piece. However, with the strip being finished and to dimension, Inot sure how easy it would be to splice in a new piece. Any thoughts... from hadn@chevron.com Fri Sep 6 11:16:20 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20874 for; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 11:16:17 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:15:31 -0700 Fri, 6 Sep 1996 09:15:31 -0700 Subject: RE: Qs about scraper construction 4.0.838.14Encoding: 47 TEXT I wrote...I'm not Wayne or George, but I've had some experience with boththe handheld blades and the L-N scraper. The L-N scraper bladehas to be sharpened at an angle a lot steeper (closer to perpendicular)than the 25 to 30 deg. that plane blades are sharpened. I just measuredmine at 60 degrees. To which Mike responded...Yep, that's the way come. However, having borrowed one of Wayne'sLie-Neilsen scrapers, he indeed does use the same angle on his scraperblades as his plane blades, and I can say it works quite well. Isupposethe advantage is that you do not have to reset you sharpening guide forthe two different blades. It seems that either angle cuts equallywell.If I recall, Wayne posted about this a while back. My response back...Either angle does cut equally well, but I also gave the reasons why thescraper blade should be sharpened at 60 degrees:Scraper blades should be sharpened at this angle because the waythat a scraper blade is used, the edge doesn't get dull, per se, youend up wearing an arch or little rounded gap in the edge of your blade.The thicker edge stands up to a lot more use with out having toresharpen as much. Mike also queried....ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Well, if finally happened...justfinishing up the 4th strip of the second butt section, for the pairof Leonard 38 clones I'm working on...there it was, _TDWH_ ('TheDreaded WORM Hole') I figure I can either start from scratch with a whole new strip, or try to splice in a piece. However, with the strip being finished and todimension, I not sure how easy it would be to splice in a new piece. Any thoughts... To which I answered...This happens to everyone sooner or later. In my experience it'sa lot easier to start from scratch with a new strip than to tryand salvage an already completed strip. Darryl Hayashida from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Sep 6 12:10:08 1996 ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 12:10:06 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 13:09:23 -0400 Subject: Re: guide finishes In a message dated 96-09-06 10:39:35 EDT, you write: Jim, do you look at your wraps with a 10X glass before coating? you mighthave some fuzzies sticking up. Use a Alcohol burner to burn them off. Justaguess. Don Burns from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Sep 6 15:18:22 1996 ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:18:18 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:17:35 -0400 Subject: Sticky ferrule pin -- help! Hi everybody, Anybody out there with an solution to removing a long pin from a ferrule.Thepin is in a female Montague bottle-style ferrule. Seems the pin goes all the way through the cane and is hitting the othersideof the ferrule while still sticking above the cane on the pinhole side. I've tryed driving it in, -- no go. Bent my darn (read damn) cheap punch. I need the ferrule for a restoration job. This is a "G" job and no money init for new NS ferrules. Help! Also, now I need a source of a better quality gun punch too! Thanks, Don Burns from moucheux@sympatico.ca Fri Sep 6 15:57:52 1996 ; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 15:57:50 -0500 smtp1.sympatico.ca (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id QAA27371 for; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:55:42 -0400 Organization: Le Moucheux Enr. Subject: Re: Sticky ferrule pin -- help! FFer4trout@aol.com wrote: Hi everybody, Anybody out there with an solution to removing a long pin from a ferrule.Thepin is in a female Montague bottle-style ferrule. Seems the pin goes all the way through the cane and is hitting the othersideof the ferrule while still sticking above the cane on the pinhole side. I've tryed driving it in, -- no go. Bent my darn (read damn) cheap punch. I need the ferrule for a restoration job. This is a "G" job and no money init for new NS ferrules. Help! Also, now I need a source of a better quality gun punch too! Thanks, Don Burns Have you tried drilling it..??? Take a bit just larger than the pin andtry and drill it.Mike from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 6 16:02:37 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA07092 for; Fri, 6 Sep 1996 16:02:33 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA173 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Sticky ferrule pin -- help! FFer4trout@aol.com wrote: Hi everybody, Anybody out there with an solution to removing a long pin from a ferrule.Thepin is in a female Montague bottle-style ferrule. Seems the pin goes all the way through the cane and is hitting the othersideof the ferrule while still sticking above the cane on the pinhole side. I've tryed driving it in, -- no go. Bent my darn (read damn) cheap punch. I need the ferrule for a restoration job. This is a "G" job and no money init for new NS ferrules. Help! Also, now I need a source of a better quality gun punch too! Thanks, Don BurnsDon,Carefully file the pin flush, the very very carefully, drillthe pin (dont get the ferrule body) with a wire guage drill bit. Onceyou get it past the inside surface of the ferrule, you are home free.Be extremely careful and use a good machinest vice and top quality bit.If you let the bit wander off, you will drill the ferrule. easy to do.I ruined a few before I decided to make a set of guides for drillingpins like this. Made the guides on a lathe out of tool steel thenhardened them. Of course I have a whisper forge, so I didn't have topay someone to do this part. good luck,Bob Nunley from FFer4trout@aol.com Sat Sep 7 16:19:09 1996 ; Sat, 7 Sep 1996 16:19:07 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 7 Sep 1996 17:18:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Sticky ferrule pin -- help! Thanks, I'll have to find a good hobby shop for 0.040" drills etc. Don from FFer4trout@aol.com Sat Sep 7 16:19:43 1996 ; Sat, 7 Sep 1996 16:19:41 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 7 Sep 1996 17:18:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Sticky ferrule pin -- help! In a message dated 96-09-06 17:10:38 EDT, you write: Bob, Thanks, I'll have to find a good hobby shop for 0.040" drills etc. Don from tpaulsen@ecity.net Sun Sep 8 10:29:51 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA03526 for; Sun, 8 Sep 1996 10:29:49 -0500 george.ecity.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA05089 for; Sun, 8 Sep 1996 10:37:01 -0500 Subject: ferrules, building them yourself some time back there was a discussion on mfg ferrlues. i missed most ofit andwuold appreciate information on ferruel building. Thanks, Terry Paulsen from hadn@chevron.com Mon Sep 9 13:18:17 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA21035 for; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 13:18:09 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 9 Sep 1996 11:17:14 -0700 Mon, 9 Sep 1996 11:17:14 -0700 Subject: Minimalist Dip Tube 4.0.993.5Encoding: 24 TEXT Some list members may remember the "Don't raisethe rod, lower the varnish" dip tube arrangementI came up with about a year ago. Last Labor Dayweekend, I was painting my house, and for parts of itI used an airless spray gun. One of the things you needto do is check the viscosity of the paint with a little cup- funnel arrangement. You time how long it takes thepaint to run out. Well, it occurred to me that I didn't need the valve onmy dip tube arrangement, just a hole of the right size.I tried it out on a scrap strip, and it seems to workfine. with the viscosity of the varnish I have - and itcan vary a great deal, so experiment first - a threesixteenths inch hole runs out at about four inchesa minute. So, all you need to dip finish your rods is a lengthof PVC pipe, an end cap, a stand to hold the pipe,a cork, and varnish. Dip finish your rods for lessthan ten dollars (not including varnish). Darryl Hayashida from Anachemrpo@aol.com Mon Sep 9 13:51:00 1996 ; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 13:50:57 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 14:50:13 -0400 Subject: Re: Minimalist Dip Tube Now that I've already bought and installed a valve! Daryl, your ingenuity astounds. Best regards, Russ LavigneAnachemro@aol.com from FFer4trout@aol.com Mon Sep 9 18:36:17 1996 ; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 18:36:15 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 19:35:29 -0400 Subject: Potential Mercury problem I would like to issue a caution for everyone on this list. I've been trying to restore some old cane rods and you've all been greathelp. But a problem just showed-up and after thinking about it, I decidedtopost this caution: I started to remove an old chrome-plated brass ferrule that was VERYstuck(yes the pin was removed) and my alcohol lamp's heat won't budge it. SinceIdidn't want the ferrule, just the cane section, I decided to call out the bigguns (kitchen gas stove). I heated the ferrule until the "Chrome"- platingstarted to bubble and run. What! Chrome-plating melting and running? After thinking about it for a day or so, I decide that someone, years ago,coated this brass ferrule with MERCURY!!!! As in Mercury poisoning! It wasin bad shape and I guess the mercury was to hide the brass color. So please check before heating! This ferrule did look VERY bright andshiny. So say welcome to a Darwin Award finalist for next year. Now I've got to make sure that I've got rid of all mercury from my (wife's)cooking mitt's. Might cost me the price of a new pair. GOK's about fumesinside the house.I aired out the house but ??? Don Burns PS - This year's Darwin Award winner mounted an aircraft Jato bottle onhis'67 Chevy. A true story! E-mail me for a copy of this, it is a funny story -but the guy did die. from JohnNatk@aol.com Mon Sep 9 19:40:14 1996 ; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 19:40:12 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 20:39:29 -0400 Subject: Propane powered heat gun oven Has anyone experimented with a propane heat gun in a heat gun oven? Istherean advantage to an electric unit over the propane unit. I'm asking becauseIfound a Benzomatic propane heat gun for $20 and I am wondering if itwould bea good choice. Thanks for any input. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Sep 9 20:23:26 1996 ; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 20:23:24 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 9 Sep 1996 21:22:41 -0400 Subject: Scraper thoughts - Catskills from the list of my mail - it looks like AOL has 'burned' some mailagain. I have chose to sharpen my scraper blades at 30 degree instead of thehigh angle that LN preshaped it at - two reasons - first, using the highangle with the blade holder it is quite easy to tip the holder over centerand muck up the leading edge - secondly being of Scotch ancestory byusingthe 30 degree angle just one blade holder is required.To clearify - I also remove the burr - as I do with the plane blade - Ialways had it flipping over guickly and it was a bother keeping it facingforward so I just did away with it.The real issue in all this is whether a person can consistantly removeshavings as fine as .00025" - If your 'system' can then it's working -whatever angle or presence of burr maybe - if it isn't than I wouldrecommendtrying the 30 degree with burr removed. Remember the blade angle in thescraper body should be set at 3 degrees forward of center. That way youare'dragging' the blade edge across the surface.On Mikes recent adventure here I finally gave him a photo of the woodenscraper that I made. Here again I use a LN #212 repo - but with a fewscrapsof wood and a table saw a person can make a very functional unit forpractically nothing. The thought is to tie a scan of the photos with thetextposted a while back and add a few drawing (Mike you can get those on thenextGrayrock run) and have a downloadable file for those wanting it. Theoriginal Miles Tiernan, Lyndi, and I have just returned to Mich from theCatskills. The get together was excellent. Bob and Ken deserve manythanks touchthings she did. The fishing was tough - but enjoyable - even Lyndi hadsucess. Sunday as we were leaving there was a last sightseeing excursionupto Beaverkill to see the covered bridge. Truly a must see if you are in thearea. It was great to finially meet George Barnes and some of the othersandto see the familiar faces again.On the Hex96 forefront - there is now a 'a' version that reflects sometext and instruction polish. I am preparing to be gone for the next coupleweeks (conducting classes in Grayrock) and when I get back I hope to posta'latest' version with the deflection simulator on board and working. Atthattime there will need to be a test set up to compare the predicted and theactual deflection of a rod to see if it works or if a 'fudge factor' needs tobe developed. Grayrock Bound Wayne FYI - Cattanach derives from the name Chattan which is one of the oldestclans in Scotland from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Tue Sep 10 04:12:04 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id EAA20241 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 04:11:58 -0500 RAA03858; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:11:05 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Scraper thoughts - Catskills Grayrock Bound Wayne FYI - Cattanach derives from the name Chattan which is one of the oldestclans in Scotland OK, but how's it pronounced? Tony from FFer4trout@aol.com Tue Sep 10 06:37:36 1996 ; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 06:37:34 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 07:36:51 -0400 Subject: Mercury? Tin? Regarding my Mercury posting, I've been informed by someone in the know,thatmost likely the plating was pure tin not mercury. Tin plating is also very a bright surface. Mercury would most likely be aliquid- form and won't plate the brass completely. I hope so. Don B. from MELLS@MUSIC.FERRIS.EDU Tue Sep 10 07:10:36 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA23808 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 07:10:34 -0500 V2R2)with BSMTP id 0884; Tue, 10 Sep 96 08:10:43 EDT Subject: Re: Potential Mercury problem After thinking about it for a day or so, I decide that someone, years ago,coated this brass ferrule with MERCURY!!!! As in Mercury poisoning! Itwasin bad shape and I guess the mercury was to hide the brass color. Don....Doubt that the coating was mercury because mercury will vaporizeslowly at room temperature. I accidently (honest!) coated my class ringwith mercury when in high school and within a week or two the silvery coating would "wear" off. Didn't know at the time what was actually happening! Mercury has been a problem for years in dental operatories sinceit is splashed out when making amalgams (sp?). Liquid Hg on the floor or carpet would slowly vaporize until gone - did produce quite an airborne mercury load. Mike from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Sep 10 08:00:19 1996 ; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 08:00:18 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 08:59:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Mercury? Tin? Regarding my Mercury posting, I've been informed by someone >in theknow,thatmost likely the plating was pure tin not mercury. Tin plating is also very a bright surface. Mercury would most >likely be aliquid-form and won't plate the brass completely. I hope so. Don - Having been associated in the past with metal plating, let me alsoassure you that mercury is not involved here. The only likely possibilitiesare tin and nickel. Given the evidently low melting point, tin is probablycorrect. - Tom Smithwick from hadn@chevron.com Tue Sep 10 09:46:57 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02110 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 09:46:53 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 10 Sep 1996 07:46:08 -0700 Tue, 10 Sep 1996 07:46:08 -0700 Subject: RE: Potential Mercury problem 4.0.993.5Encoding: 38 TEXT After thinking about it for a day or so, I decide that someone, years ago,coated this brass ferrule with MERCURY!!!! As in Mercury poisoning! Itwasin bad shape and I guess the mercury was to hide the brass color. Now I've got to make sure that I've got rid of all mercury from my(wife's)cooking mitt's. Might cost me the price of a new pair. GOK's about fumesinside the house.I aired out the house but ??? I used to work in a lab where mercury was routinely used, andwe were well trained in safety procedures for handling it. A one time exposure in the amount that would have beenon the ferrule isn't cause for too much concern, althoughvaporizing it like you did with heat is the best way to absorbit. Don't worry at all about lingering fumes because mercuryfumes are way heavier than air and they will sink to the floorout of your breathing space in seconds. The fumes will alsodisperse in an hour or so, or as you said you aired out yourhouse, they will be gone. Mercury isn't absorbed throughthe skin very fast at all. Most of the metallic mercuryabsorption is through breathing of the vapors of evaporatingmercury. All the health problems you read about happenswhen mercury is taken up into the food chain as organicmercury compounds, not by exposure to metallic mercuryunless you are exposed to it long term. Darryl Hayashida from hadn@chevron.com Tue Sep 10 10:15:20 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA03740 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:15:18 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 10 Sep 1996 08:14:27 -0700 Tue, 10 Sep 1996 08:14:27 -0700 Subject: RE: Scraper thoughts - Catskills 4.0.993.5Encoding: 11 TEXT The real issue in all this is whether a person can consistantly removeshavings as fine as .00025" - If your 'system' can then it's working - Wow - I don't know if I can go that fine. When I measured myshavings at half a thousandths - .0005 - I figured I had it dialedin and stopped worrying about it. With my caliper I have toestimate how far the needle is between tick marks withanything less than .001 Darryl Hayashida from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Tue Sep 10 10:24:51 1996 ; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:24:48 -0500 1.3.14/2.12um) id AB0038; Tue, 10 Sep 96 08:21:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Sticky ferrule pin -- help! Hi Don: Reading your request for a source for a new pin punch reminded me of acompany that'sprobably foremost in their stock of tools for gunsmithing. Please beaware I'm in no wayaffiliated with their organization but am passing their name on becausemany of their tools maybe useful for rodbuilding too. Anyway, they are: Brownell's Inc.200 S. Front StreetMontezuma, IA 50171(515) 623-5401 Hope this information is helpful not only to you but to other rodbuilders,as well. Best regards, Rich Brown from Anachemrpo@aol.com Tue Sep 10 10:59:24 1996 ; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 10:59:22 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:58:39 -0400 Subject: sticky pin and the big D So here I am deleting all the messages with regards to sticky pinsthinking"What do I need this information for?" Well, you gussed it. I just discovered the restored Heddon 17 that Iboughtand subsequently had break at the second female ferrule has a pin whereitbroke and I can't seem to remove it without further damage to the ferrule. Please forgive me while I ask your indulgence and advice. What best to donow? e-mail me direct if this stuff has been beaten into the ground. I promise I'll pay closer attention in the future.:-( Regards, Russ LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Tue Sep 10 11:01:22 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA06462 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:01:19 -0500 Subject: Planing Forms At the present time I'm making a set of planing forms for 3/4" keystock(cold roll). I'am using the push pull type of forms. I have found amachinistthat can make a single pass with a milling machine. What I'm need toknow ishow far do you need to set the forms apart in order to get the proper taper.Will Bruce Conners (wooden forms) gap work on steel forms? Does anyone havea complete set of plans for building a set of forms? Bob BerryFlatland Fly Fisher from maiello@YorkU.CA Tue Sep 10 11:27:59 1996 ; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 11:27:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Mercury? Tin? I agree it was not mercury.The reason is that mercury would not be shiny for long, since it willoxidize in air quickly. It would sublime over time also , as others havesaid. If you ever break a thermometer, the mercury balls that form, ifleft untouched will become dark in a short time ( maybe days ). Mauro On Tue, 10 Sep 1996 TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Regarding my Mercury posting, I've been informed by someone >in theknow,thatmost likely the plating was pure tin not mercury. Tin plating is also very a bright surface. Mercury would most >likely bealiquid- form and won't plate the brass completely. I hope so. Don - Having been associated in the past with metal plating, let me alsoassure you that mercury is not involved here. The only likelypossibilitiesare tin and nickel. Given the evidently low melting point, tin is probablycorrect. - Tom Smithwick from kvrtiska@esu6.esu6.k12.ne.us Tue Sep 10 12:45:36 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA13433 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 12:45:33 -0500 (5.65/1.1.8.2/26Dec94-0747PM) Organization: Tecumseh Public Schools Subject: Can anyone help me? I am interested in getting started building a spinning rod and would likesome help getting started. Am I in the right place? Help!Can anyone out there give me a point or a source to which get started? Thank you kvrtiska@esu6.esu6.k12.ne.us from bear4@srv.net Tue Sep 10 14:34:12 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA20095 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:34:10 -0500 0152AM) Subject: Rod Building Help I build graphite rods. If this is what you are interested in just letme know what you need help with.I can give you ordering info and tech.help.Barry Baledgebear4@srv.net from FFer4trout@aol.com Tue Sep 10 15:05:03 1996 ; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:05:01 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:04:06 -0400 Subject: Re: sticky pin and the big D In a message dated 96-09-10 12:12:37 EDT, you write: Russ, I was the poster of the "how to question" and here's what I've learnedfromthe group. Start with saying -- 3 Hail Mary's and 2 Our Father's. And I'm not evenaRoman Catholic. 1) Pray that the pin sticks up a little bit. If so, buy a good pair of flush-cutting cutters at a hobby shop or electricalsupply store. Make sure they're flush-cutting! They grab the pin with thecutters and pull the pin or rock them against the ferrule to pull the pin ifstuck in hard. 2) If this doesn't work, now you're in trouble. Buy a 0.040" bit, a pin vise and some small files at the same hobby shop.I'dalso buy some smaller bits too. But the procedure is to file any burrs off the pin to get a flat surface todrill on. Don't scratch the ferrule. Cover the ferrule with tape to protectit. Then drill the pin out. Much easier to say that do. Maybe start with a verysmall bit to make a centering hole. (I'm still learning myself) But drill down to below the inside surface of the ferrule. Then remove theferrule as you would if not pinned. Watch that the bit doesn't drift and cut into the ferrule itself. Some guyswill have machine shops and can make a fixture up. If you can do so. I had a ferrule that took many foot-lbs. to extract after heating. I'mworking on a ferrule extractor tool to help pull the ferrule off the "stick"after the pin is removed. If I work out a easy to build tool, I'll post it. Good luck! Don Burns from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Tue Sep 10 15:20:19 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25788 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:20:17 -0500 Subject: Horrocks & Ibbotson Company Can any one give me any infomation about a rod made by Horrocks &Ibbitson Company. Quality rod or not. Present value? Only has 5 guides,is that right? Bob BerryFlatland Fly Fisher from kvrtiska@esu6.esu6.k12.ne.us Tue Sep 10 15:33:53 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA27324 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 15:33:51 -0500 (5.65/1.1.8.2/26Dec94-0747PM) Organization: Tecumseh Public Schools Subject: Re: Rod Building Help I am very much interested in that. Right now I have no sources or info.I am just looking to get started. Anything that you can provide will bea great help. Kim from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Sep 10 16:24:33 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA01599 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 16:24:31 -0500 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA293560622; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 14:23:42 -0700 Subject: Need Belvoirdale's www address Can someone provide me with Belvoirdale's www address. I've seen itbeforebut now can't locate it under the search engine Alta Vista. Thank You. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Tue Sep 10 17:20:10 1996 ; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:19:56 -0500 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0042; Tue, 10 Sep 96 15:16:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod Building Help Hi Kim: There are several good texts on the market concerning building graphiterods. One I'drecommend highly is 'Advanced Custom Rod Building' by Dale Clements. The scope of thisbook is wider than some of the others and includes informationspecifically about spinningrods. The cost is about $30.00 and studying it thoroughly will give you asolid background in allphases of graphite and glass fibre rod building. You might even find a copyat your library youcould check out before you decide to pony up your hard-earned cash. Goodluck and enjoy! Rich Brown from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Tue Sep 10 17:41:52 1996 ; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:41:18 -0500 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0047; Tue, 10 Sep 96 15:38:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Need Belvoirdale's www address Hi Mac - Found this using Lycos search engine. Hope its the one you're looking for. www.netreach.net/company/belvoirdale Best regards, Rich Brown from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Tue Sep 10 17:56:42 1996 ; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 17:56:10 -0500 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0045; Tue, 10 Sep 96 15:27:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Need Belvoirdale's www address Hi Mac - Found this using Lycos search engine. Hope its the correct entity. http://www.netreach.net/company/belvoirdale Best regards, Rich Brown from cbogart@ibm.net Tue Sep 10 18:11:16 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA12952 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:11:14 -0500 1996 19:10:29 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Need Belvoirdale's www address Mac That address is easy: http://www.belvoirdale.com Chris from caneman@clnk.com Tue Sep 10 18:33:21 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA14789 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 18:32:56 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA61 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Horrocks & Ibbotson Company bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us wrote: Can any one give me any infomation about a rod made by Horrocks &Ibbitson Company. Quality rod or not. Present value? Only has 5guides, is that right? Bob BerryFlatland Fly FisherBob,Give me specifics, model name or number, length, any script onshaft, wrap colors, etc. and I can probably help you out. Email atcaneman@clnk.com and I will get back to you as soon as I can. Thanks,Bob Nunley from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Tue Sep 10 19:21:29 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA17762 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 19:21:18 -0500 IAA29608; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:20:17 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Need Belvoirdale's www address On Tue, 10 Sep 1996, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Can someone provide me with Belvoirdale's www address. I've seen itbeforebut now can't locate it under the search engine Alta Vista. Thank You. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Try http://www.belvoirdale.comI got some lit from them the other day and that's what's on the letterhead. Tony from tpaulsen@ecity.net Tue Sep 10 21:07:19 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA25564 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:07:15 -0500 george.ecity.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA01791 for; Tue, 10 Sep 1996 21:15:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing Forms When I made my forms I made a fixture which had one end elevated enoughtogive the proper amount of rise per ft. I do not remember the amount ofriseper ft. but I got it out of the Garrison book. I milled my forms one sideat a time as I had to relocate the bar several times as my mill was notlongenough to do it in one pass. The idea with the fixture being preciserelocation of the barstock at the end of the pass. If your Machinist has along enough bed all you need to do is jack up one end of your forms so thatthe beginning depth of cut and the ending depth of cut correspond to thespecs shown on Garrison's plans which I think is .0888 from end to end.youshould thne clamp both forms a precise distance apart and then center thecutter for the one pass needed to complete your forms. You may also wantthe machinist to bore your holes for the alignment pins, he will do a muchbetter job of it in a milling machine then you can do in a drill press. Theholes for the push pull bolts could be done in the drtill press as they arenot as critical. I did all my drilling in the mill as I used Garrison'ssystem of differential screws, as I was not smart enough to figure out thealternative, and that was what the plan called for. It was also befor Idiscovered the internet and this news group. My latest and final bit of fixturing has just been finished, I built mystarting form in cold rolled bar stock. I did get some deformation becauseof the depth of cut on the 57deg bevel. But I have been told this is aproperty of cold rolled to deform when it is milled on one side only. If you have any further questions feel free to write, I will try to help. sincerly, Terry Paulsen At the present time I'm making a set of planing forms for 3/4" keystock(cold roll). I'am using the push pull type of forms. I have found amachinistthat can make a single pass with a milling machine. What I'm need toknow ishow far do you need to set the forms apart in order to get the propertaper.Will Bruce Conners (wooden forms) gap work on steel forms? Does anyone havea complete set of plans for building a set of forms? Bob BerryFlatland Fly Fisher from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 11 06:57:08 1996 ; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 04:56:22 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod Building Help rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov wrote: Hi Kim: There are several good texts on the market concerning building graphiterods. One I'drecommend highly is 'Advanced Custom Rod Building' by Dale Clements. I concur about Clemens' book although it may be a little much for abiginner in someareas. Its an excellent reference book. Another source, although notrelatingspecifically to spinning gear are Garcia's book and video on buildinggraphite fly rods.I personally like videos as a learning aid. Mike --Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625 from bootstrap@earthlink.net Wed Sep 11 09:48:25 1996 JAA02842 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:48:22-0500 HAA22879 for ; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 07:47:21 Subject: Re: Jato bottle on Chevy Hi. Please send me the story about the Darwin Award. Thanks. Frank inColorado from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Sep 11 09:59:41 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA03623 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:59:40 -0500 CDT Subject: Re: Planing Forms Terry seez... My latest and final bit of fixturing has just been finished, I built mystarting form in cold rolled bar stock. I did get some deformationbecauseof the depth of cut on the 57deg bevel. But I have been told this is aproperty of cold rolled to deform when it is milled on one side only. I've heard of that deformation happening in milling CRS. I asked amachinist friend, and the way he explained it to me was that thereare great surface stresses that are built up during the cold-rollingprocess. When you mill just one side some of those stresses arerelieved on the milled side, causing the deformation. I was told the stresses can be relieved after milling by a mildheat treating. Simply heating the forms up to 375-400 degrees andthen letting them slowly cool is suppose to relieve those stresses.Sounds like something you could do in your heat-treating oven... Mike - hot & relieved - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Last night, at our TU meeting, afellow brought in an old cane rod for me to take a look at. It waspenned: 1926 / G. Ashton, Maker / St. Louis. I pretty sure that was thename, though I can't remember exactly now. Anyone know of any STLrodmakers from that era? Didn't realized there might have been anyhometown rodmakers... from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Sep 11 10:23:54 1996 ; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 10:23:52 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 11:23:02 -0400 Subject: Cross Rod Taper This rod amazed all who handled it at the Catskills Gathering. On paper,andto the eye of several experienced rodbuilders , it looks like a 5 weighttaper, but it competently cast a 7 weight for considerable distance. WhileIhaven't charted the rod yet, It looks like this is explained by a strongmiddle. Look at the jump from 42" to 39". I'm a little confused on how to Zimney? Chris? Can one of you clear this up?In any case here is the taper: 7 ft 13/64 ferrule 4/64 Tiptop 0 in. - .2903 - .2906 - .2909 - .29012 - .28615 - .28218 - .27521 - .26524 - .26027 - .25530 - .24833 - .24036 - .23039 - .22042 - .20345 - .19848 - .19051 - .18054 - .16857 - .15860 - .15063 - .14066 - .13069 - .12072 - .11275 - .10678 - .09681 - .08084 - .062 from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Wed Sep 11 10:38:40 1996 dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA20789 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 08:37:53 -0700 Organization: Bohls Financial Services Subject: Winston Value -- Bob Clouser has a Winston cane rod in his shop to sell for a client.It's an 8'9", 5 1/2 oz. For 8wt. I think a modle 2282. 3 piece 2 tips.Case and bag. All in mint condition. Any Ideas as to value????FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732- 2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from hadn@chevron.com Wed Sep 11 11:49:35 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA11547 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 11:49:30 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:48:45 -0700 Wed, 11 Sep 1996 09:48:45 -0700 Subject: Rubbed on Polyurethane finish 4.0.993.5Encoding: 13 TEXT Okay guys - another one of my experiments that seemed to haveworked out. If you thin out polyurethane varnish a lot - I mean because there are so many different formulas for polyurethanevarnish), you can actually rub it on with a rag. Or use a brush,this mix is so thin brush marks don't linger. You also get a lotof time to fill in, etc. before it gets tacky. I put a rod section onmy rod turning motor, brushed on this mix as it turned, let itcontinue to turn as it dried, put on three coats, and the resultswere excellent. No brush marks, no runs, no drips, no errors. Darryl Hayashida from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Wed Sep 11 14:42:25 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA21795 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:42:22 -0500 Subject: Answer to rod stresses from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Wed Sep 11 14:52:59 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA22566 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 14:52:57 -0500 Subject: Answer to rod stresses To Darryl Hayashida:You posted a question a couple of week ago about if you moved a rod from 15" to 5 " would it make a faster rod or a rod that would cast atighterloop. I don't remember the exact question I going from memory (this isscarry in itself) but did you receive an answer to that problem. If sowould you share the answer againBob BerryFlatland Fly Fisher from hadn@chevron.com Wed Sep 11 15:12:21 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23641 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:12:19 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:11:35 -0700 Wed, 11 Sep 1996 13:11:35 -0700 Subject: RE: Answer to rod stresses 4.0.993.5Encoding: 16 TEXT To Darryl Hayashida:You posted a question a couple of week ago about if you moved a rod from 15" to 5 " would it make a faster rod or a rod that would cast atighterloop. I don't remember the exact question I going from memory (this isscarry in itself) but did you receive an answer to that problem. If sowould you share the answer againBob BerryFlatland Fly Fisher No, I didn't get an answer. I guess it's one of those thingsI have to try myself, or try and develop a casting simulator.... Darryl from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Sep 11 15:28:29 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24447 for ;Wed, 11 Sep 1996 15:28:27 - 0500 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Michael Biondo wrote:. I've heard of that deformation happening in milling CRS. I asked amachinist friend, and the way he explained it to me was that thereare great surface stresses that are built up during the cold-rollingprocess. When you mill just one side some of those stresses arerelieved on the milled side, causing the deformation. I was told the stresses can be relieved after milling by a mildheat treating. Simply heating the forms up to 375-400 degrees andthen letting them slowly cool is suppose to relieve those stresses.Sounds like something you could do in your heat-treating oven...Very good idea Mike. I've advocated for a long time forms built frommaterials other than CRS because of CRS's propensity to deform when theharder, outer layer of partially carburized steel is removed. Simplyrelieve it in the oven and then flaten. john from bear4@srv.net Wed Sep 11 16:35:34 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28706 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 16:35:32 -0500 0152AM) Subject: Re: Rod Building Help Kim Vrtiska wrote: I am very much interested in that. Right now I have no sources or info.I am just looking to get started. Anything that you can provide will bea great help. Kim Kim,Tell me what kind of rod you are interested in building andI can tell you what kind of price and where to order from. I also have avideo on rod building for beginners. If you give me your address I'dcertainly send you a copy.Barrybear4@srv.net from jfoster@gte.net Wed Sep 11 18:52:42 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07962 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 18:52:40 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP 18:49:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Taper I know this is going to get a blast but.. What would be the issue of fixing the taper of the last 3.5 in. of a rod(regardless of the taper) so the reelseats could be bored to like 3sizes and would just fit?jwf from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Sep 11 19:46:57 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA10093 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 19:46:56 -0500 UAA10986; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 20:46:19 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Cross Rod Taper Tom A long time ago Reed Curry Xerox'd the tapers out of Herter's book but section is 42.873 in long end .15557" .155513 .143519 .13525 .12531 .117536 .10841.873 .10213/64 ferruletip section is 42.873 in long end .1027 .08913 .079519 .06825 .057531 .047536 .043542.873 .039 5/64 top Total length of reel seat and cork grip is 8 3/4 in though theyreccomend a7 in cork grip on the rod.. HDH line recommend even though you may think it is too heavy. Guides: But section 1 stripping guide 29 3/8 from end and 1 snake 103/8 from stripping fuide tip section 5 snake guide 9 1/4, 7 7/8, 7 7/8, 7 and 6 3/8 center tocenter from the snake guide on buttsection when rod is assembled. Hope this provides even more information on this rod. It isone remarkable rod. Chris from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Sep 11 21:20:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA12847 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 21:20:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Winston Value New, the rod is worth $1600. Since this rod is long and not considered apopular length, it is worth what someone would pay. Maybe 550-700 range,just an estimate, the length I suggest is the key to the value more so thanthe maker/competition jb At 11:40 11/09/96 -0700, you wrote:-- Bob Clouser has a Winston cane rod in his shop to sell for a client.It's an 8'9", 5 1/2 oz. For 8wt. I think a modle 2282. 3 piece 2 tips.Case and bag. All in mint condition. Any Ideas as to value????FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732- 2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com James Bond, Toronto, CanadaFax (416) 444-4196E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jfoster@gte.net Wed Sep 11 23:46:59 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA17311 for; Wed, 11 Sep 1996 23:46:58 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) via SMTP 23:44:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Cross Rod Taper Chris I bet you do this just to skrew with my tiny mind but section is 42.873 in long ..41.873 .102 with such precision ????? .039*** are these half tapers? jerry from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Sep 12 06:12:57 1996 ; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 06:12:55 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:12:13 -0400 Subject: Stones In the 24 hours on the road this weekend one of the topics is the largerselection of sharpening stones available today. Going back only a fewyears(Ol' Fartism) there were only waterstones and Arkansas stones. Today youhavethe ceramics and diamond stones. Miles Tiernan, who I shared the weekendtripwith, has added a diamond to his sharpening regiment and comments aboutthetime savings he sees. Well for the next few weeks I will be at the'Clubhouse' for classes and have borrowed a few diamond stones - onefromMiles and another from Ken Rongey and hope to give them a workout.Miles recommended that for next year at Grayrock 97 - that it might beaworthwhile project to throw out all the different stones and such on atableand let everybody try them. I have quite a collection of plane and scraperblades that I could provide so that every one should get a chance to seehowfast the different combinations can can whip a beatup blade back intoshape.Miles says that in his research that the only thing authors agree abouton the subject of sharpening systems is that you can throw a bit of moneyatit. Wayne from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Sep 12 08:13:46 1996 ; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:13:44 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:12:58 -0400 Subject: Re: Answer to rod stresses You posted a question a couple of week ago about if you >moved a rod from 15" to 5 " would it make a faster rod or a rod that would >cast atighterloop. I don't remember the exact question I going from memory (this isscarry in itself) but did you receive an answer to that >problem. If sowould you share the answer againBob BerryFlatland Fly Fisher I was going to attempt an answer to this at the time, but decided to waitandsee if one of the real taper wonks out there jumped on it. Actually, thereisnot enough information to give a definitive answer, but assuming you aretalking about a reasonably smooth taper with no unexpected hinges, whatyoupropose is probably counter productive. Think about it. In order to lowerthestresses at the 15" and 10" marks, you will have add material, andthereforeweight and stiffness. This will force the rod to bend deeper into the butt.Any slight increase in flex in the last 5" would probably be negated by theincrease in flex deeper in the rod. You would need more skill, not less, tothrow a tight loop. -- Tom Smithwick from hadn@chevron.com Thu Sep 12 09:44:43 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA02304 for; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 09:44:41 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:43:57 -0700 Thu, 12 Sep 1996 07:43:57 -0700 Subject: RE: Answer to rod stresses 4.0.993.5Encoding: 20 TEXT . In order to lower thestresses at the 15" and 10" marks, you will have add material, andthereforeweight and stiffness. This will force the rod to bend deeper into the butt. You can keep the 10" and 15" diameters the same and reduce thediameters from tip to 5". I've done just that on an Excel spreadsheetI stuck together, and for practical purposes the reduction has to extendto about the 8 to 9" mark, but as long as you keep max stress less than200,000 there shouldn't be any problem with breakage. The way thatstress is calculated (rightly or wrongly) any reduction of materialbefore(towards the tip) the point in question reduces stress at that point. As long as you mentioned hinges, maybe building in a hinge at 5" orthereabouts would accomplish the same thing, but the stress curve isso steep in that area I think a hinge there would just translate into ahigher maximum stress. Darryl Hayashida from hadn@chevron.com Thu Sep 12 10:59:46 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA07247 for; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 10:59:44 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:58:58 -0700 Thu, 12 Sep 1996 08:58:58 -0700 Subject: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper 4.0.993.5Encoding: 10 TEXT I ran the posted Cross taper through my Excel spreadsheet,and this stress curve has the same shape as the 7 ft. 4wt.2 piece listed in the back of Wayne Cattanach's book. Wayne'staper is the one that I have been raving about for the last year,so I can see why you liked the Cross taper. One thing, though.With 40 ft. of 5wt. the max stress is only 150,000. I can seewhy it seemed to you that it probably would handle a 7 wt. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Sep 12 16:15:33 1996 ; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:15:31 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper Darryl - Thanks for the quick service on the stress analysis. What youfounddoes not suprise me. While the rod did cast well with the 7 weight, Ithoughtit was a bit slow. I would like to have tried it with a 6 weight, also, forcomparison.--Tom Smithwick from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Sep 12 16:15:36 1996 ; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 16:15:33 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:14:50 -0400 Subject: Re: RE: Answer to rod stresses You can keep the 10" and 15" diameters the same and reduce >thediameters from tip to 5". I've done just that on an Excel >spreadsheet Darryl - OK, I'm with you now. I didn't pick up that you were doing this bytaking material out of the tip. You might wellsee some improvement, but how much depends on what the tip felt like inthefirst place. If the tip felt stiff and unresponsive to begin with, you mighthave a noticeable improvement. If the tip works smoothly with the rest oftherod already, I doubt if you will feel much difference. How much are youtaking out of the tip? ( in thousandths) from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Sep 12 17:39:34 1996 ; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 17:39:33 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:38:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper Darryl -The charactrer of the 7'0" #4 and that of the Cross isn't planned butmakes sense. Earlier on I actually used the stress curve of a Cross and'crossed' it with the Garrison curve. It is the H - 3 (hybrid - 3), which Ilist in the book. The 7' 9" is designed off this stress curve. It seams thatthe character of the listed tapers bounce about a bit.Perhaps now that I have finally give in and added a save to disk andchange routine to Hexrod. It will be easier to do comparisons of taperprofiles. When I get some time (If I were ever to be quoted I'm afraid thatwould be the phrase) I can foresee a separate program that would wadethrougha pile of character curves and then from that information limits could besetso that the major speed groups could be assigned to each by tracking thepeaks and lows and dividing into three or four groupings.Another theory is that after looking at several hundred tapers - a highproportion of them will be very similar and that there will be very few'odd'character curves. This goes back to my motion that most rod design arejusttweeked spinoffs of others. Wayne Ps - If you (or others) don't have a revised copy of Hexrod and would likeone - I will download as requested. But tomorrow night I'm out of here foracouple weeks from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Sep 12 18:18:04 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04230 for; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:18:01 -0500 TAA12083; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:17:20 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Cross Rod Taper Jerry No mind games - this was out of the book w/o meadding or subtracting - Did you ever think those old guysmay just have worked to those measurements - astoundingnext thing is to find an old computer in the pyramids. Yes - half tapers - I am sure Reed can help us withthe history of printing tapers if he is listening. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Sep 12 18:20:52 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04291 for; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 18:20:50 -0500 TAA12276; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:19:58 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Stones Wayne Good idea - have a sharp-o-rama and have some caneto test the results and compare notes. Chris from rcurry@jlc.net Thu Sep 12 19:37:56 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07661 for; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:37:52 -0500 verdi.jlc.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA22473 for; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:40:18 -0400 Subject: Re: Cross Rod Taper Yes, Chris, I'm listening. I'll dig for some answers.ReedYes - half tapers - I am sure Reed can help us withthe history of printing tapers if he is listening. Chris from rcurry@jlc.net Thu Sep 12 19:48:15 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA08098 for; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 19:48:11 -0500 verdi.jlc.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA22637 for; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:50:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Scraper thoughts - Catskills Wayne,I seem to remember that the name Catanach or Cattanach has ameaning, but I don't have a Gaelic-English dictionary at hand. The onlytimeI've seen the name in use in in several of Geo. Macdonald's (d. 1905)Scottish novels, "Malcolm" and "Marquis of Lossie". Are there manyCattanachs (not to be confused with Sassenachs)?ReedWayne FYI - Cattanach derives from the name Chattan which is one of the oldestclans in Scotland from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Sep 12 20:58:05 1996 ; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 20:58:03 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Sep 1996 21:57:20 -0400 Subject: Re: Scraper thoughts - Catskills Reed -Many can be a undefined. As far a Cattanachs go there are few. Ainteresting thing - a year or so ago the National Geographic did a thing onScotland and low and behold there was a Cattanach guiding a sport on astaghunt. It must have something to do with the genes or something.I have never heard a meaning for the name but on the crest (or whateverit is called) the saying 'Beware The Cat' is inscribed.Another interesting occurance - My maternal grandmother was a McNittwhich derives from Mac Naughton - in the family history there is recordedafeud between the two clans in 1272. Wayne Ps - Next years dinner entertainment for TTBBBQ is going to be a bagpiper. from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Sep 13 03:12:13 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA21427 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 03:12:08 -0500 QAA08593; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:11:20 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Scraper thoughts - Catskills On Thu, 12 Sep 1996 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote:Reed -Many can be a undefined. As far a Cattanachs go there are few. Ainteresting thing - a year or so ago the National Geographic did a thingonScotland and low and behold there was a Cattanach guiding a sport on astaghunt. It must have something to do with the genes or something.I have never heard a meaning for the name but on the crest (orwhateverit is called) the saying 'Beware The Cat' is inscribed.Another interesting occurance - My maternal grandmother was aMcNittwhich derives from Mac Naughton - in the family history there isrecorded afeud between the two clans in 1272. Wayne Ps - Next years dinner entertainment for TTBBBQ is going to be abagpiper. Wayne, the few people down here interested in cane rods have had morediscussion on the pronounciation of your sirname than any other singletopic. How do you pronounce it? Tony from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Fri Sep 13 07:11:57 1996 ; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 05:11:12 -0700 Subject: Re: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Ps - If you (or others) don't have a revised copy of Hexrod and would likeone - I will download as requested. But tomorrow night I'm out of here couple weeks Wayne, I would like a copy of the revised version. BTW, I watched your video this weekend. I thought you really did a greatjob andpassed on a lot of useful information that was never totally clear to me from your bookor Garrison's. Video really is a great way to teach. However, if I wereyou, Iwouldn't make any plans to be Dan Rathers' replacement [bg]. I don't thinkyou have abig future as an on the air personality. Mike--Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly- fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Sep 13 08:13:28 1996 ; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:13:27 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:12:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper Mike -I will download the program tonight - I'm stuck here at work and don'thave it with me - As for the video thanks for the kind comments - Thevideocan use a little life - It has been recommended that if I ever redo it that Ishould have an assistant - A tool girl perhaps - Demi Moore has been thenamebounced around in the past. It's a good thing that we don't have to be realPC here. Wayne from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Fri Sep 13 08:52:57 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA01251 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 08:52:55 -0500 HAA04011; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:52:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Ps - If you (or others) don't have a revised copy of Hexrod and wouldlikeone - I will download as requested. But tomorrow night I'm out of here couple weeks Wayne, I would also like a copy of the new Hexrod. Also are there anyplans on a version for Mac users? If you are not planning on making one translate the program to mac if he had the code. He is willing to to this I know my PC friends are getting tired of me tying up their machines. Jim Fillpot from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Fri Sep 13 09:02:31 1996 ; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 07:01:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Mike -I will download the program tonight - Thanks - It has been recommended that if I ever redo it that Ishould have an assistant - A tool girl perhaps - Demi Moore has been thenamebounced around in the past. GREAT IDEA - can I direct? My wife and I have this deal - If she ever getsa chance,she can have Bruce Willis; and if I get the opportunity with Demi Moore,its alrightwith her. Somehow, I wasn't real optimistic until I got your note. [bg] Wayne --Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625 from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 13 09:09:13 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA02219 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:09:11 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA109 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Mike -I will download the program tonight - I'm stuck here at work and don'thave it with me - As for the video thanks for the kind comments - Thevideocan use a little life - It has been recommended that if I ever redo it thatIshould have an assistant - A tool girl perhaps - Demi Moore has been thenamebounced around in the past. It's a good thing that we don't have to be realPC here. WayneWayne... I would also like a copy... Bob Nunley from jtausig@bu.edu Fri Sep 13 09:52:20 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA05496 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:52:18 -0500 Subject: Stuck ferrule...HELP!! Fished the Swift River yesterday, andwas unable to separate the cane rodI was using...it has now had a nightto think about it, and STILL REFUSESto part.... any suggestion how to separate METALferrules???? Already tried the "rod-behind-the-legs"trick -- force seems to be having NOeffect... help!!! thanks! jared jtausig@acs.bu.edu from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Sep 13 10:33:18 1996 ; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:33:16 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:32:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Stuck ferrule...HELP!! Jarad, I've tryed several methods over the years: 1) With a friend's help pull the section apart. To prevent breaking the rod,try holding the rod section that's furthest from you and push - not pull.Your friend does the same thing with the section closest to you. This putsthe force in-line with the rod and reduces side (rod breaking) forces. 2) Cool the rod. Wrap in plastic and put in ice bath. Wait until cold. Removeand warm the female ferrule quickly with a very hot rag (you could put inaplastic bag - I guess). Put behind the knees and pray. 3) Dribble a VERY-VERY small amount of WD-40 on the male/female joint.Wait afew seconds and then try the behind the knee stuff. Don't put on enoughWD-40to get it into the cane (just a liquid RCH). Wipe off the WD-40 when yougetapart. I also have would that a routine application of the U-40 "Ferrule Lube"product does wonders for prevention of future SOB's. Good luck, Don Burns from bean@vassar.edu Fri Sep 13 10:44:33 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA09434 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 10:44:32 -0500 #15333) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Hi-I wonder if anyone has any insights about a question a friend of minerecently suggested. I have refinished a couple of cane fly rods for myselfand freinds, but do not build cane rods from scratch. Consequently, thismay be an overly simplistic question for those of you who understandstresses, actions, and tapers of cane rods. Is there a way to cut down anolder 3 pc. 9 ft rod to make it into a 3 pc 7' or 7'6" and not destroy therod's action? One would obviously have to be creative about referrulingthe rod, but would the important dynamics of the rod be so messed up thatit would be virtually unusable? The question arose when a friend pickedupan old 9 ft production rod for very little money and realized that ashorter rod would be better suited to the type of fishing that he does.Because it is an inexpensive rod that has no sentimental value, needs to berefinished, and has little value as it is, we're not afraid to experiment.Obviously, there is no great loss if the experiment fails. We could alwaysbuild an independent handle and use it as a 6' without changing the mid andtip sections but the original question would remain. Jay Bean from hadn@chevron.com Fri Sep 13 11:48:37 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA12851 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:48:35 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:47:33 -0700 Fri, 13 Sep 1996 09:47:33 -0700 Subject: RE: Re-made old rod 4.0.993.5Encoding: 47 TEXT Is there a way to cut down anolder 3 pc. 9 ft rod to make it into a 3 pc 7' or 7'6" and not destroy therod's action? An interesting question.I've never done it myself, but here's my opinion. First, find out what you have. Take off all guides. You aregoing to have to reposition them anyway, and measure thediameter with your calipers every inch. If you are going torefinish it, strip off the varnish first so you will have a truemeasurement of the actual diameter. Measure the diameterall the way around, flat to flat (three times, 1 - 4, 2 - 5, 3 - 6).I would use the average of the three for the measurementat each station. If you want to preserve the original action, use Bruce Connorsprogram (or Waynes, I haven't seen Waynes new improvedversion yet), and get a characteristic stress curve. Now, withyour new length in mind, try and see if you can duplicate thestress curve by repositioning the shorter sections. The first thingI would try is eliminating the thicker ends of each section, becausethe way the stresses work, a shorter rod has less stress exertedat any given point on the rod than a longer rod. If you aren'tconcerned about each section being the same length, youshould be able to come up with many different stress curves part of another section, etc. One problem you will probably run into is miss matched roddiameters where the ferrule goes. There are two ways youcan handle this. If the difference isn't too great, you can turndown the bamboo on the fatter side to match the thinner side.You can also use scrap pieces of bamboo and carve piecesto be glued to the flats of the thinner side and position themso that they are entirely hidden by the ferrule. If you want to make a faster action rod the first thing I wouldtry is keep the handle on the butt section, trim the ferruleend to length, trim equal amounts off of each end of themid section, and trim the thicker end off of the tip section.BUT, look at the stress curve first. Do this all on paper firstbefore you start cutting you sections down. Darryl Hayashida from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Sep 13 13:37:45 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA18903 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 13:37:44 -0500 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA170239807; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 11:36:47 -0700 Subject: Old Fly Line I came across an old fly line at a second hand store and am curious aboutwhat it is made up of. It looks like a natural color although their seemsto be a faded dye of various colors along various intervals of the line.It has a braided look to it like lanyard cord. The diameter seems as bigas modern lines. It was on a South Bend Oren-O-Matic reel attached to anold fiberglass fly rod. Does anyone know what the line might be made of? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from hadn@chevron.com Fri Sep 13 14:43:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23098 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 14:43:09 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:42:24 -0700 Fri, 13 Sep 1996 12:42:24 -0700 Subject: RE: Answer to rod stresses 4.0.993.5Encoding: 19 TEXT You can keep the 10" and 15" diameters the same and reduce >thediameters from tip to 5". I've done just that on an Excel >spreadsheet Darryl - OK, I'm with you now. I didn't pick up that you were doing this bytaking material out of the tip. You might wellsee some improvement, but how much depends on what the tip felt likein thefirst place. If the tip felt stiff and unresponsive to begin with, you mighthave a noticeable improvement. If the tip works smoothly with the restof therod already, I doubt if you will feel much difference. How much are youtaking out of the tip? ( in thousandths) Keep in mind this is all on paper and not actually in bamboo (yet).Since actual numbers will vary depending on your application,reducing the tip by 17 percent, the five inch station by 5 percent,and the 10 inch station by 1 percent brought the max stress up tothe 6 inch mark from it's previous place at the 15 inch station. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Sep 13 16:41:57 1996 ; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 16:41:55 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:41:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper Jim Fillpot wrote:Not sure how many mac users we have in the group butI know my PC friends are getting tired of me tying up their >machines. Jim - There is a program called Soft PC which will allow you to runHexrod onyour Mac. (At least it works on the original)The program sells for about $100.00. I downloaded a 15 minute demoversion from AOL some time ago. It works, but you have to have your ducks in arow,as 15 minutes is not a lot of time.I would LOVE to have a Mac version of Hexrod. let me know if onesomehowbecomes available. -- Tom Smithwick from Mikael.Marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.SE Fri Sep 13 17:10:02 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00544; Fri, 13 Sep 199617:09:59 -0500 skeria.skelleftea.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) 1.21);14 Sep 96 00:11:15 MET DST 00:10:51 MET DST 14 Sep 96 00:10:49 MET DSTComments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: Stuck ferrule...HELP!!Priority: normal Don Burns first metod is almost working. If You pull the nearestrodpart towards You and push the other and Your friend does the samething but from the opposite side the "side forces" will really bereduced and the chances of separation is good.-------------------------------------------------------- --------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Sep 13 17:11:36 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA00620 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 17:11:35 -0500 Subject: Hexrod on a MAC (pffft! :-) Tom seez... I would LOVE to have a Mac version of Hexrod. let me know if onesomehowbecomes available. -- Tom Smithwick Hey guys, through the generosity of Wayne in supplying the code,and the cleverness of a couple list members there is an EXCELspreadsheet version of HEXROD available on the RODMAKERS webpage. Now be it understood that I am totally 'MAC Impaired', but I understandthat there is a version of EXCEL available for the MAC, and the HEXRODspreadsheet runs equally well as it was intended on the PC andon the MAC. I think Jerry Foster, who ported HEXROD to EXCEL, runs iton both platforms. Mike - the only MAC I know from, sells hamburgers - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from kpickrel@agt.net Fri Sep 13 22:59:20 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA10382 for; Fri, 13 Sep 1996 22:59:18 -0500 agt.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA22881 for Subject: varnish can I get direction to archive info on varnishing pls, if available? bob cochrane________________________________________________________________________ Kelly N. Pickrell phone: (403) 674-26055334 59 Ave.Barrhead AB T7N 1E1 e-mail: kpickrel@agt.netCANADA kpickrel@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca________________________________________________________________________ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Sep 14 10:01:25 1996 ; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:01:24 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:00:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Hexrod on a MAC (pffft! :-) Mike wrote:I understandthat there is a version of EXCEL available for the MAC, Mike- I checked my computer catalog ( Mac version ), and damn if you arenotright. All I have to do is offer $299.95 in tribute to Bill Gates ( + $29.95 business. - Tom " thought spreadsheet was something you did in thebedroom"Smithwick. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Sep 14 10:01:27 1996 ; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 10:01:26 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:00:44 -0400 Subject: Re: RE: Answer to rod stresses Darryl Wrote:Since actual numbers will vary depending on your application,reducing the tip by 17 percent, the five inch station by 5 >percent,and the 10 inch station by 1 percent brought the max stress >up tothe 6 inch mark from it's previous place at the 15 inch station. Darryl - These numbers are certainly significant enough to effect a changeinrod behavior. Based on the stress numbers you have mentioned, It's hard tosee how you could get into trouble here. I'd be a lot more comfortable,however, If there was an existing rod to cast before making the change.Stress curves are a fantastic tool, but the casters hand remains theultimatevariable. Maybe we can get Wayne working on a virtual casting program?I did modify a taper once by decreasing the material from the 20" mark tothetip just as you are doing here in the last 10".It made a huge difference, making it much easier to cast tight loops anddecreasing casting effort, BUT, the original tip was a poor design beingwaytoo stiff for any caster. - Tom Smithwick from FFer4trout@aol.com Sat Sep 14 11:01:46 1996 ; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 11:01:45 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 12:01:01 -0400 Subject: Re: Hexrod on a MAC (pffft! :-) In a message dated 96-09-14 11:04:03 EDT, you write: I understandthat there is a version of EXCEL available for the MAC, Mike- I checked my computer catalog ( Mac version ), and damn if you arenotright. All I have to do is offer $299.95 in tribute to Bill Gates ( + $29.95 business. - Tom " thought spreadsheet was something you did in thebedroom"Smithwick. Surplus Direct in Oregon has (had) MS Excel 4.0 for Mac's @ $12.99, saysit'san update version. So does it require older version? I'd call them and findout. They've got good stuff for PC's and some Mac stuff. (800) 753-7877 or also http://www.surplusdirect.com Don Burns from jtausig@bu.edu Sat Sep 14 16:04:24 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA02205 for; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:04:22 -0500 Subject: Rodmakers url?? Can someone send or post theurl where I can find the Mac versionof the Hexrod program?? thanks! Jared P.S. Rod came apart last night -- the 2-personpull turned out to be the key...thanks toall for help & advice! from moucheux@sympatico.ca Sat Sep 14 16:13:49 1996 ; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 16:13:48 -0500 smtp1.sympatico.ca (8.6.12/8.6.6) with SMTP id RAA28469 for; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:11:35 -0400 Organization: Le Moucheux Enr. Subject: Re: Old Fly Line CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I came across an old fly line at a second hand store and am curious aboutwhat it is made up of. It looks like a natural color although their seemsto be a faded dye of various colors along various intervals of the line.It has a braided look to it like lanyard cord. The diameter seems as bigas modern lines. It was on a South Bend Oren-O-Matic reel attached toanold fiberglass fly rod. Does anyone know what the line might be madeof? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Maybe horse hair... Maybe....!!!--Mike LajoieLe Moucheux(514) 699- 1184http://www.titan.qc.ca/moucheux from Mikael.Marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.SE Sat Sep 14 17:13:44 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA04042 for; Sat, 14 Sep 1996 17:13:42 -0500 skeria.skelleftea.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) 1.21);15 Sep 96 00:15:06 MET DST 00:15:01 MET DST 15 Sep 96 00:14:54 MET DSTComments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: Old Fly LinePriority: normal CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I came across an old fly line at a second hand store and am curiousabout what it is made up of. It looks like a natural color althoughtheir seems to be a faded dye of various colors along variousintervals of the line. It has a braided look to it like lanyardcord. The diameter seems as big as modern lines. It was on a SouthBend Oren-O-Matic reel attached to an old fiberglass fly rod. Doesanyone know what the line might be made of? Thanks,Mac Must be a silk line. Very good to cast with if greased. Some of theseold lines are rotten and goes into pieces when wet.------------------------------------------- ---------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Sep 15 11:22:44 1996 ; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 11:22:43 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 12:22:00 -0400 Subject: fish stories I supose I ought to apologize to Mike for jumping on him after he poked funat us Mac users. The fact is I have been in a surly mood ever since theCatskill gathering. Not that I didn't have a good time because I did. Asusual, there was a wealth of imformation, and I got to cast more rods thanIcould build in a lifetime. What happened was this. After the first day, abunch of us were sitting on the porch of the Roscoe Motel drinking bourbonand beer, and naturally enough we got to telling fishing stories.Well, BillFink and I were putting on our Martha's Vineyard slide show the next day,so,of course, I started to tell some of the fly fishing legends from theVineyard. I started out with the time that a group was night fishing forStripers off the Menemsha jetty and one of the guys hooked into somethingreally big. It thrashed around like crazy for a while but didn't make a fastrun like a big striper would have. Nobody could figure out what it wasuntilit crawled up on the jetty and offered to punch out the fisherman. Turnedouthe had snagged a scuba diver in the thigh. Just when I got through tellingthe story, someone, who shall remain nameless, got up and said the storywasBS and they didn't believe a word of it. Boy, was I put out! If I'm going togo to all the trouble of sitting on the porch drinking shots and beers, theleast anyone else can do is believe my stories! Hey, If I was going to lie, Iwould have said they took the scuba guy to the supermarket and weighedhim tosee if he was an IFGA line class record. That wouldn't have been true. Thetruth is that they were going to do that, but someone remembered that hewasfoul hooked, and the catch would have been disqualified anyway. Theyreleasedhim right there on the jetty.What really honked me off was that this was only the Scuba diverstory.I never even got to tell about the time one of the other guys lassoed a1000lb tuna in the surf and dragged it up on the beach with a pickup truck. OnceI knew what kind of people I was dealing with, I wouldn't have told themthatstory if they begged me. So, sorry Mike, I was holding this in and I guess Ikind of took it out on you. - Tom Smithwick from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Sep 15 16:56:25 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29230 for; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 16:55:52 -0500 1996 17:54:58 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: fish stories Tom We should have know to complement you on praticing "catch andrelease". Chris from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Sun Sep 15 20:24:33 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA04430 for; Sun, 15 Sep 1996 20:24:31 -0500 CDT Subject: Re: Hexrod on a MAC (pffft! :-) Tom - spreadin' his sheets - Smithwick seez... Mike- I checked my computer catalog ( Mac version ), and damn if you arenotright. All I have to do is offer $299.95 in tribute to Bill Gates ( + $29.95 business. - Tom " thought spreadsheet was something you did in thebedroom"Smithwick. 299.95!!! Wow, pretty pricey! You wouldn't even need a hard-disk if all you wanted to do was runHEXROD on it. Hmmmm, might be an option... Mike - inverse technology - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Just wondering...how many tip stripscan you folks get on a resharpening? I've been planing tips all weekendand I for the life of my I can't seem to get more that three stripswithout having to resharpen my plane blade. I'm using a Hock blade andsharpening till I can shave the hair on my arm. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Sep 15 21:04:47 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA06304 for ;Sun, 15 Sep 1996 21:04:44 - 0500 Subject: Re: Hexrod on a MAC (pffft! :-) o. ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Just wondering...how many tip stripscan you folks get on a resharpening? I've been planing tips all weekendand I for the life of my I can't seem to get more that three stripswithout having to resharpen my plane blade. I'm using a Hock blade andsharpening till I can shave the hair on my arm. Mike, That's as much as you can expect on a blade. You'd probably getmore on carbide, but not steel. John from TOM@sp1.hitchcock.org Mon Sep 16 06:21:20 1996 GAA21658 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 06:21:14-0500 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA24356 for; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:20:30 -0400 Mon, 16 Sep 96 6:52:39 EST5EDT EST5EDT Mon, 16 Sep 96 6:52:24 EST5EDT Subject: Re: varnishPriority: normal can I get direction to archive info on varnishing pls, if available? bob cochrane A while back I surveyed the list on thier varnish methods. I gotseveral responses, the most prevelant method was dipping. I promise tuned... Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Newbury, Vermont Beer makes you feel the way you ought to feel without beer.- Henry Lawson from hadn@chevron.com Mon Sep 16 09:33:47 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27714 for; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:33:44 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:32:56 -0700 Mon, 16 Sep 1996 07:32:56 -0700 Subject: RE: Strips per sharpening Was:Hexrod on a MAC (pffft! :-) 4.0.993.5Encoding: 15 TEXT ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Just wondering...how many tip stripscan you folks get on a resharpening? I've been planing tips all weekendand I for the life of my I can't seem to get more that three stripswithout having to resharpen my plane blade. I'm using a Hock blade andsharpening till I can shave the hair on my arm. Have you put a groove in your plane sole? I found that the bladestays sharp longer since I grooved my planes. I also grooved myLie-Neilsen scraper. The groove keeps the blade from touchingthe planing form, and if your form is metal, one touch on the bladeand you need to resharpen. Darryl Hayashida from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Sep 16 09:43:32 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA28348 for; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 09:43:32 -0500 CDT Subject: Sharpening I previously sed... ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Just wondering...how many tip stripscan you folks get on a resharpening? I've been planing tips all weekendand I for the life of my I can't seem to get more that three stripswithout having to resharpen my plane blade. I'm using a Hock blade andsharpening till I can shave the hair on my arm. And John Zimny 'sharply' replies... Mike, That's as much as you can expect on a blade. You'd probably getmore on carbide, but not steel. John That's what I was afraid of! It takes me 30-40 minutes per blade usinga 1000/6000 waterstone. I can turn a burr pretty quickly with the 1000grit, but it seems to take forever to turn one with the 6000 grit side. I am really considering going to some mechanical method. Not so muchbecause I am in hurry but more because sharpening just seems so tediousto me. I remember a while back, someone on the list describing usinga leather-covered wheel and diamond dust. How is this working out?How long does actually take to sharpen the blade? I also saw a poweredsharpening unit that has a small two-inch wide wheel for roughing, anda fine, eight-inch wheel with water for finishing. Does anyone useanything like that? Mike - a little dull - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from bobb@fsccax.ftscott.cc.ks.us Mon Sep 16 13:30:59 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA10540 for; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 13:30:56 -0500 Subject: Rod Guides Does anyone know of a source of rod guides that is made from two ringsthat are joined at the top and spread apart at the bottom where they jointhe foot. It was on an I-H rod I'm refinisheing. Any help appreciated. BobBerry (FFF) from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Sep 16 16:15:10 1996 ; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:15:04 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:14:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Sharpening boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.848.emout04.mail.aol.com.842908460" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.848.emout04.mail.aol.com.842908460 Mike - Do not go out and spend big bucks on a sharpening machine until youtry the diamond method. You can hone a blade in less than a minute. Theonlycost involved is the diamond lapping compound, which is actually a paste,notdust. Ron asked for a copy of the posting, so it will be in "The PlaningForm." A copy of the article is in the attachment, in the form of an RTFfile, which I am led to believe you PC guys can download. - TomSmithwick --PART.BOUNDARY.0.848.emout04.mail.aol.com.842908460 name="Sharpening rig RTF" {\rtf0\mac\deff21{\fonttbl{\f1959 \fnil American Heritage;}{\f12777\fnil=Avant Garde;}{\f12760 \fnil Benguiat Frisky;}{\f12939 \fnil BernhardMod=ern;}{\f13001 \fnil Bookman;}{\f11 \fnil Cairo;}{\f0 \fswiss Chicago;}{\f=1025 \fnil ClosedCaption2;}{\f12981 \fnil Cooper Black;}{\f22 \fmodernCo=urier;}{\f15900 \fnil Dom Casual;}{\f9840 \fnil Espy Sans;}{\f9842 \fnil=Espy Sans Bold;}{\f14809 \fnil eWorld Tight;}{\f3 \fswissGeneva;}{\f1276=2 \fnil Graphite Light;}{\f12770 \fnil Graphite Light Narrow;}{\f21 \fswi=ss Helvetica;}{\f15 \fswiss Helvetica Narrow;}{\f6 \fdecorLondon;}{\f876=3 \fnil Lucida Casual;}{\f9998 \fnil Milestones;}{\f4 \fmodern Monaco;}{\=f13005 \fnil New Century Schoolbook;}{\f2 \froman New York;}{\f16\froman=Palatino;}{\f13003 \fnil Phyllis;}{\f13000 \fnil Poster Bodoni;}{\f1899 =\fnil PTE;}{\f15054 \fnil Signet Roundhand;}{\f3228 \fnilStateGothic;}{\=f23 \ftech Symbol;}{\f1024 \fnil TaxLine;}{\f20 \froman Times;}{\f12761\=fnil Torino Outline;}{\f13009 \fnil Zapf Chancery;}{\f13010 \fnil Zapf Di=ngbats;}}{\colortbl\red255\green255\blue255;\red0\green0\blue0;\red255\green0\blue=0;\red0\green255\blue0;\red0\green0\blue255;\red0\green255\blue255;\red25=5\green0\blue255;\red255\green255\blue0;}{\stylesheet{\sbasedon222\snext Normal;}}\paperw12240\paperh15820\margt1440\margb1440\margl1440\margr1440\widowctr=l\ftnbj\ftnrestart\ftnstart1\pgnstart1\deftab720\sectd\linemod0\linex0\co=ls1\colsx0\pard\plain\pard\qc{\plain\f3\fs36\cf1 Diamond Sharpening}{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 \par }\pard\ql{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 \par }\pard\ql{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 Here is an inexpensive way to sharpen planeb=lades that is quick and easy to use. I am indebted to George Barnes, who =inspired me to try this. Basically, the setup is a leather covered wheel,=onto which a diamond lapping compound has been rubbed. Take a pi}{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 ece of 2 X 6 lumber and bandsaw a 5 3/4 inch circle.=You now have a 5 3/4 x 1 1/2 disc. Drill a suitable hole in the center a=nd true up the OD on a lathe. If you don't have a lathe you could also tr=ue up by mounting the disc on pillow blocks and holding a}{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 sanding block against it.\par }\pard\ql{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 \tab Cut a 1 1/2 inch wide belt out of 1/8in=ch hard leather and glue it to the OD of the disc. I used contact cement,=which worked fine. The disc is now 6 inch diameter, same as mostgrindin=g wheels. Mount the disc on pillow blocks over a bench and drive with}{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 an electric motor. I use a salvaged appliance motor =which runs at 1250 rpm. This is probably too fast, I would guesssomewher=e under 1000 is better with a wooden wheel. For a tool rest I simply clam=ped a block to the table top in such a way that the prope}{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 r angle on the blade is maintained.\par }\pard\ql{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 The Diamond lapping compound may not bea=vailable locally. Try Travers Tool ( 1-800-221-0270 ) in NY. The stuff co=mes in different grits. I have used the 4-8 micron size with great result=s. I have some lighter grits also, but have not seen fit to use t}{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 hem so far. Expect to pay about $ 20.00 for 5 grams, =which should last for a while. To use, squeeze some compound on yourfing=er and spread a thin coat on the leather. You will be amazed at the highl=y polished, ultra sharp edge which is quickly produced.\par }\pard\ql{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 \par }\pard\ql{\plain\f3\fs24\cf1 {\pict\macpict\picw439\pich213079effffffff00=d401b6001102ff0c00ffffffffffff0000ffff000001b6000000d400000000000000a1009=6000a01000000020000000000001affffffffffff0001000affffffff00d401b600090000=00000000000000310000000100d201b5001a000000000000000cffff00000001000a00000=00000d201b4000700000000002300000001000a00000000008101b40009ffffffffffffff=ff00230000001affffffffffff000900000000000000000061003600c9004900ca010e005=a0023000000a100b600040001000100a100b6000400010001001a00000000000000070001=00010009ffffffffffffffff0068010e005a001affffffffffff000900000000000000000=051001b00db006d012d0007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b6000400=010001001a0000000000000007000100010009ffffffffffffffff0058001afffffffffff=f000900000000000000000051003600f6005201120007000000000023000000a100b60004=0001000100a100b6000400010001001a0000000000000007000100010009fffffffffffff=fff0058001affffffffffff000900000000000000000051001b0015006d00670007000000=000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b6000400010001001a0000000000000007000=100010009ffffffffffffffff0058001affffffffffff000900000000000000000051002d=00300049004c0007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b60004000100010=01a0000000000000007000100010009ffffffffffffffff00580007000000000023000000=a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100070001000100220051001500240007000=000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100070001000100220051=006600240007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100070=00100010023af000007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b60004000100=01000700010001002000480039005101080007000000000023000000a100b600040001000=100a100b60004000100010007000100010020002d00420036010800070000000000230000=00a100b600040001000100a100b600040003000300070006000600200073014e007300010=00cffeaffff0001000a00000000000e00750007000000000022000000000000002c000c00=150948656c76657469636100030015000d000c002e000400000000002a0a054d6f746f720=0000c001600010001000a00000000008101b40022000a001f000000a100b6000400030003=00a100b600040001000100a0008c0071001a0011003a001c0043001c00430015003a00110=043001c0043000700010001002200090039091100a0008d001affffffffffff0009000000=0000000000003100630147007601510007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a=100b6000400010001001a0000000000000007000100010009ffffffffffffffff00380007=000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100070001000100220=03f012c1b360007000000000023000000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100=070001000100220036012c1b36000cfec1ffff0001000a00000000000e007500070000000=000220000000000000029000b706c616e6520626c61646500000cffdcff9d0001000a0000=0000001c00510023000000290011426c6f636b20636c616d70656420746f2000002a0e056=2656e636800000c016300640001000a00000000008101b4002200180022000000a100b600=040001000100a100b600040001000100a0008c0071001a006801500070015b006c0150006=8015b0070015b006c01500007000100010022006c0162f00000a0008d0007000000000023=000000a100b600040001000100a100b600040001000100a0008c0071001a003e013e00490=1470049013e003e0140004301470049013e000700010001002200120162dd3500a0008d00=01000a0000000000d201b4000d000e002a964152696720666f72207368617270656e696e6=720706c616e6520626c616465732077697468206469616d6f6e64206c617070696e672063=6f6d706f756e64206f6e2000002a10336c65617468657220636f766572656420776865656=c2e202020202d2d2d2d2d2d2d2d2d2d2020546f6d20536d6974687769636b0000a0009700=0c000100000001000affffffff00d401b6000700000000002200ce0000000000a100b6000=40001000100a100b600040001000100a0008c0071001a0029006f00340077003400730029=006f0029007700340073000700010001002200210073001000a0008d00a10096000a01000=000020000000000000cff30fff00001000a00000000000e00460007000000000022000000=000000000d000c0028000a000008726f746174696f6e0000a00097000c00d000100001000=affffffff00d401b60022000a0029000000a100b600040001000100a100b6000400010001=00a0008c0071001a001d00b9002500c4002100b9001d00c4002500c4002100b9000700010=0010022002100e8d30000a0008d00a10096000a01000000020000000000000cffacfff500=01000a00000000000e006c00070000000000220000000000000029000a647269766520626=56c7400a0009700ff}}}= --PART.BOUNDARY.0.848.emout04.mail.aol.com.842908460-- from JCZIMNY@dol.net Mon Sep 16 16:24:03 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21645 for ;Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:23:56 - 0500 Subject: Re: Sharpening Michael Biondo wrote: I previously sed... ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Just wondering...how many tipstripscan you folks get on a resharpening? I've been planing tips allweekendand I for the life of my I can't seem to get more that three stripswithout having to resharpen my plane blade. I'm using a Hock bladeandsharpening till I can shave the hair on my arm. And John Zimny 'sharply' replies... Mike, That's as much as you can expect on a blade. You'd probably getmore on carbide, but not steel. John That's what I was afraid of! It takes me 30-40 minutes per blade usinga 1000/6000 waterstone. I can turn a burr pretty quickly with the 1000grit, but it seems to take forever to turn one with the 6000 grit side. I am really considering going to some mechanical method. Not so muchbecause I am in hurry but more because sharpening just seems so tediousto me. I remember a while back, someone on the list describing usinga leather-covered wheel and diamond dust. How is this working out?How long does actually take to sharpen the blade? I also saw a poweredsharpening unit that has a small two-inch wide wheel for roughing, anda fine, eight-inch wheel with water for finishing. Does anyone useanything like that? Mike - a little dull - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo.Mike, save your money. I've bought it all and tried it all. Setyourselfup a sharpening station. Find a way to avoid the guides - they take toomuch time. Use whatever stones you like-make sure the last one is veryfine. It should take very little time.Power honing equipment doesn't degrease the time nor does it increasethe sharpness.If you let a blade go "dead", it'll take much longer to sharpen.John from caneman@clnk.com Mon Sep 16 16:32:20 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA22058 for; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:31:09 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA170 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Strips per sharpening Was:Hexrod on a MAC (pffft! :-) Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: ORN (Obligatory Rodmaking Note): Just wondering...how many tip stripscan you folks get on a resharpening? I've been planing tips all weekendand I for the life of my I can't seem to get more that three stripswithout having to resharpen my plane blade. I'm using a Hock blade andsharpening till I can shave the hair on my arm. Have you put a groove in your plane sole? I found that the bladestays sharp longer since I grooved my planes.Darryl Hayashida I also have grooved all of my planes. I get an average of 6 strips persharpening. That saves a lot of time on the stone. Plus it helps tohave multiple planes. I keep 6 grooved soled planes sharpened andready. Bob Nunley from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Mon Sep 16 16:56:43 1996 ; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 16:56:38 -0500 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0086; Mon, 16 Sep 96 14:58:21 -0400 Subject: Re: Sharpening Tom - May I inquire what grit size you're using to hone your plane blades. I knowthat diamondstones or lapping plates (those impregnated with diamond "dust") areavailable in different gritsizes. Unfortunately, the method of assigning grit size designationsseems to vary betweendomestic and foreign abrasive manufacturers. I've been using Japanese waterstones to prepare and hone my blades butI've found that thewear rate on the waterstone's surface requires me to frequently true thestones. It becomestiresome to have to repeat this process and I feel my time sharpeningblades could be moreproductively spent by using a harder abrasive, i.e., diamond, instead. Suggestions, advice,comments gladly welcomed. Thanks. Rich Brown from cbogart@ibm.net Mon Sep 16 17:35:48 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25149 for; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 17:35:46 -0500 Sep 1996 18:35:13 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Sharpening Mike 30 - 40 min to sharpen a blade using 1000/6000 waterstones! Iusuallyhave mine done from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Mon Sep 16 18:41:24 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA27427 for; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 18:41:18 -0500 mail.pilot.net with ESMTP id QAA07144 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA024957270; Mon, 16 Sep 199616:41:10 - 0700 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 23DE5960; Mon, 16 Sep 9616:41:10 -0700 Subject: Re[2]: Sharpening Rich Brown writes... - text omitted - I've been using Japanese waterstones to prepare and hone my blades butI've found that thewear rate on the waterstone's surface requires me to frequently true thestones.It becomestiresome to have to repeat this process and I feel my time sharpeningblades could be moreproductively spent by using a harder abrasive, i.e., diamond, instead.Suggestions, advice,comments gladly welcomed. Thanks. Rich Brown Fellow Rodmakers: I am getting set to start on my first cane rod. I spent this weekend truingthesole of my 09 1/2 and sharpening plane irons, so this thread is verywelcomeinfo... I have noticed the same problem with my waterstone, perhaps it's becauseI usean on-the-stone guide which wears a groove in the stone. I have stumbledupon aninteresting alternative...Alumina Ceramic. I had some samples from Coorsthat Iwas testing for use as a bearing material in a large linear motor. Thestuff isvery hard and flat. I would estimate the abrasive quality to somewherebetween7000 and 10000. It put a scary sharp bright mirror finish to a Recordplaneiron. Have not tried it on my Hock blade yet. The only drawback was thatwithsuch a fine grit, it took some time to achieve this finish. The sample isabout3" x 6" x .125". Anyone have any experience with or thoughts about this material? Thismaterialis similar to that used in "V" sharpening sticks and thermocoupleinsulators. Is there a point of diminishing returns with sharpening above 6000 grit? Thanks, L.D.Cross from bruno@vv.cta.com Mon Sep 16 21:19:32 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02368 for; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:19:30 -0500 victor1.vv.cta.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA09210; Mon, 16 Sep1996 19:37:33 -0700 Organization: Fatherhood/Brotherhood Subject: More Sharpening OSN (Obligitory Sharpening Note)I believe all stones take on a concave "dip" after heavy repeated use.This troubles me when I'm trying to do precision work.I also believe that stones are messy and a big pain in the...This troubles me doing any kind of work.Anyway, I use alot of old tools and I've restored my share of planes andblades. The method I've used for truing up plane soles can be applied toplane blades. This method involves gluing strips of wet/dry sandpaperto a perfectly flat surface (glass) and honing away. For a detaileddissertation on this method, read Steve LaMantia's excellent essay"Scary Sharp" You can find it at:http://www.woodforum.com/docscary.htmThe differences between the way I learned this method and the way Stevedescribes his method is that I do not double bevel my plane edges and Ido not use a magnifying glass to determine when I've lapped enoughto feel confident to go to the next grit. Without a doubt, this methodis thefastest, least expensive, and most effective sharpening system I'veused.Good luck and let me know how it works for you.Bill "Keepin' my kids away from my tools" Cooper from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Sep 16 21:22:12 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02530 for ;Mon, 16 Sep 1996 21:22:10 - 0500 Subject: Re: sticky pin and the big D I have been gone from home for a couple of weeks and I expect that youhave solved your problem. However, I do not like to use twist drills todrill out pins. Even if you can find the right size, they are so darnedflimsy they break and even worse they have a tendency to wander all overhell's half acre. I simply can't drill a pin out with them. What I havefound to be an excellent way is to ask your friendly dentist to save allof his worn drills for you. Most dentists discard them after a while.In the assortment you will find some that are straight shafted andsomewhat smaller than the diameter of your pin. If possible file the pinsmooth, and use a dril the exact size or maybe .001 smaller stick thedental drill in your drill press if it closes to zero (If not you willhave to use a pin vise). Use a machinest's vise to hold the ferrule.Drill slowlyuntil you are just below the ID of the ferrule. If there isa little bit of the pin left it will break out when you remove theferrule. Try it it works, and the dental drills do not repeat do notwander.Good LuckRalph Moon from gord@teleport.com Tue Sep 17 01:03:47 1996 BAA09682 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 01:03:45-0500 XAA16893 for ; Mon, 16 Sep 1996 23:02:59 Subject: Re: Sharpening I've not found sharpening to a razor's edge to take a great deal of time. A great friend of mine and master woodworker has stressed the followingpoints... Don't let your blades get too far out of shape. I'm convinced that the thetime 'saved' is later wasted when you try to bring the edge back. Look at the back of the blade - not the bevel side - you'll see a shine onthat edge more readily. Stones can be trued by lapping. I just rub my two 800's against eachother.Then I lap my 1200 with an 800 & finally lap the gold stone with the 1200.This is my sharpening regime & my stones are always very flat. Anotherinstance of not getting too dull perhaps. The process is only a couple ofminutes per sharpen at the outside. On my own I've made a 'jig' to help me set the blade in my honing guide.The guide I'm loving is a Somax 22. Readily available throughWoodCraftershere in the North West. It auto-squares the blade as the sides clamp ontothe blade. For the jig I took a scrap piece of ply and glued a couple ofpieces of fiberboard a distance from the edge of the ply. One piece is formy low angle plane & the other for my 9 1/2 Lay the flat side of the bladeon the ply against the stop & slide the guide up to meet it - then tightenthe guide. Stay sharp!Gordon from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Sep 17 07:30:08 1996 ; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 07:30:07 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 08:29:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Sharpening Rich Brown writes Tom - May I inquire what grit size you're using to hone your plane >blades. Rich - The lapping compound comes in many size grits. I got some 30microinch, some 12, and some 2. So far have not seen a need for the lightersizes. The 30 produces a very sharp edge. Tom Smithwick from FFer4trout@aol.com Tue Sep 17 10:09:34 1996 ; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:09:32 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 11:08:49 -0400 Subject: Ferrule Wars (was: Re: sticky pin and the big D) In a message dated 96-09-16 23:02:25 EDT, you write: Ralph, I've been playing with the hobby drills and I agree they wander like crazy. Ilike your idea of using a dentist drill. Heck, I might even start to like togo to the guy. But I've also been toying with the idea of just making a small dia. hole inthe pin and inserting a metal wire (one strand) that has been dipped inepoxy or superglue. After the glue sets-up, pull out the pin using the wire.I findmost pins aren't all that tightly held-in just can't be grasped. So it mightwork. Even if it only pulls the pin up high enough so that a cutter tool can graspit. I've got to try this on the weekend on a pin. But does anyone else find it hard to remove the unpinned ferrules fromveryold rods? What's the best method of heating-up the ferrule withoutdamagingthe cane and yet still getting it hot enough to release the glue? Alcoholflame? Sometimes seems I've got to overheat like crazy to get the glue torelease. How about a source of small amounts (~ 1' - 3') of 0.40" NS wire? Anyonehaveone? How about using silver-solder to fix cracked NPB (ni-plated brass)ferrules?Is anyone out there able to re-plate original NPB ferrules forrestorations? Thanks, Don Burns from hadn@chevron.com Tue Sep 17 12:52:26 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08295 for; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 12:52:24 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:51:39 -0700 Tue, 17 Sep 1996 10:51:39 -0700 Subject: Rod Swap 4.0.993.5Encoding: 13 TEXT Last summer we were tossing around the ideaof a rod swap. I made an 8 ft. 4 wt. 3 piece withtwo tips for my son, and it did get used 4 times.Now he says he wants to make his own fromscratch, so this one is available. Anybody stillinterested in a swap? Brown (flamed), full wells grip, Struble uplockingCocobolo reel seat, hook keeper, complete withrod sock and aluminum tube. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Sep 17 13:33:03 1996 ; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:32:59 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:32:16 -0400 Subject: Rod building theory Let me say right now that I am Mathematically Challenged and could nothavecome up with this. I am posting it for Bill Fink, who is updating hiscomputer and will soon be joining us on the list. EFFECTS OF ROD BENDINGAt the Catskill gathering, Wayne showed some stress magnitudes forwell-tested and proven rods which were well beyond the limits proposedbyGarrison. This caused me to take another look at the effects of rod bendingto possibly find an explanation to this enigma.To do this I made a simple minded assumption as follows: Consider a 90inch rod held in a horizontal plane, which loads in such a manner as tohavezero bending for half it's length from butt (zero inches) to midpoint (45inches), and then deflects progressively 5 degrees for each 5 inchincrementtowards the tip so that the last 5 inch segment is deflected at an angle of45 degrees to the horizontal.Before proceeding, there are two things that mechanical engineers seemtoagree on: stress formulas (such as Garrison's) assume negligible beamdeflection, and only moments normal to (perpindicular to) a point on abeamact to bend the beam.Now back to the simple minded assumption (SMA). Consider just thelast 5inch segment at the tip: It's bent to a 45 degree angle to the horizontal,and a little trig shows that the force acting normal to this segment has amagnitude reduced by a factor of the cosine of 45 degrees to about 70percentof its calculated value.And again back to the SMA, the bending has the effect of shortening themoment arm in the horizontal plane, in this case by 5.25 inches ( cosine ofit's deflection angle X each 5 inch increment).Both these phenomena, normalizing moments and foreshorteningmoment armsseem to have the effect of reducing actual stresses (compared tocalculatedstresses)progressively toward the tip.Woulden't it be amazing if some rod building mathematical genius wouldsolve D.Y. Barrer's differential equations only to find that real world flyrod stress curves are more or less horizontal lines centering about150,000inch-ounces? -------Bill Fink from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Sep 17 15:01:15 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA18042 for ;Tue, 17 Sep 1996 15:01:12 - 0500 Subject: Re: Ferrule Wars (was: Re: sticky pin and the big D) You might try a jewelry findings suply store for nickle silver wire. Ifound a place in Salt Lake City called Freshfields. A couple of yearsago I got a packet of assorted guages of wire (probably 24 5 inch pieces) that the small packets were no longer stocked, but they did have a muchlarger package with some sizes that were way to large but with plenty ofusable wire for about $18.00Good Luck Ralph Moon from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Tue Sep 17 16:38:29 1996 QAA24005 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:38:26-0500 ; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 13:52:57 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod Swap Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: Last summer we were tossing around the ideaof a rod swap. I made an 8 ft. 4 wt. 3 piece withtwo tips for my son, and it did get used 4 times.Now he says he wants to make his own fromscratch, so this one is available. Anybody stillinterested in a swap? Brown (flamed), full wells grip, Struble uplockingCocobolo reel seat, hook keeper, complete withrod sock and aluminum tube. Darryl Hayashida -- How much are you asking, Daryl? Mike Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625 from hadn@chevron.com Tue Sep 17 16:47:33 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA24581 for; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 16:47:30 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:46:46 -0700 Tue, 17 Sep 1996 14:46:46 -0700 Subject: RE: Rod Swap 4.0.993.5Encoding: 24 TEXT Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: Last summer we were tossing around the ideaof a rod swap. I made an 8 ft. 4 wt. 3 piece withtwo tips for my son, and it did get used 4 times.Now he says he wants to make his own fromscratch, so this one is available. Anybody stillinterested in a swap? Brown (flamed), full wells grip, Struble uplockingCocobolo reel seat, hook keeper, complete withrod sock and aluminum tube. Darryl Hayashida -- How much are you asking, Daryl? Just a rod from another maker - An even swap. Darryl from cbogart@ibm.net Tue Sep 17 17:48:01 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA27986 for; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 17:47:59 -0500 1996 18:46:37 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Ferrule Wars (was: Re: sticky pin and the big D) Don NS .040 pinning wire - Bailey Wood sells the stuff. min order 10' at$0.70 a footbuy some and share with the neighborhood. Chris from maiello@YorkU.CA Tue Sep 17 19:01:52 1996 ; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 19:01:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod building theory Hi there. This is exactly what should be done. I suspect that the stresses undercasting will come out to be mch less than we think they are. Also, withany old computer, it would not be so difficult to apply a "load" to theend of a rod, and calculate numericaly what the position of the rod is at5 inch increments or less, and taking into account the bending should bepossible (ie dont assume small deflections) A few iterations should beginto converge.You know you get the right answer with this model, because you canphysically do the measurement of position to see how far off the modelis.The question is, would having a plot of deflection vs. length for a rodyield any information which is not seen in a stress plot?Many of you seem to be good at reading a stress plot and getting a feel Is there much to gain?Mauro from wellive@ibm.net Tue Sep 17 20:39:53 1996 UAA04748 for ; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 20:39:51-0500 01:39:06 GMT gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) VERSION 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0018; Tue, 17 Sep 96 19:39:18 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod building theory //--- forwarded letter -------------------------------------------------------MIME- Version: 1.0Date: Tue, 17 Sep 96 14:32:16 -0400From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Rod building theory Let me say right now that I am Mathematically Challenged and could nothavecome up with this. I am posting it for Bill Fink, who is updating hiscomputer and will soon be joining us on the list. EFFECTS OF ROD BENDINGAt the Catskill gathering, Wayne showed some stress magnitudes forwell-tested and proven rods which were well beyond the limits proposedbyGarrison. This caused me to take another look at the effects of rodbendingto possibly find an explanation to this enigma.To do this I made a simple minded assumption as follows: Consider a90inch rod held in a horizontal plane, which loads in such a manner as tohavezero bending for half it's length from butt (zero inches) to midpoint (45inches), and then deflects progressively 5 degrees for each 5 inchincrementtowards the tip so that the last 5 inch segment is deflected at an angleof45 degrees to the horizontal.Before proceeding, there are two things that mechanical engineersseem toagree on: stress formulas (such as Garrison's) assume negligible beamdeflection, and only moments normal to (perpindicular to) a point on abeamact to bend the beam. What you say is true regarding bending stresses in a member howeverwhen the forceis broken into a component normal to the rod, there is also a componentparallel. Now back to the simple minded assumption (SMA). Consider just thelast 5inch segment at the tip: It's bent to a 45 degree angle to the horizontal,and a little trig shows that the force acting normal to this segment hasamagnitude reduced by a factor of the cosine of 45 degrees to about 70percentof its calculated value. Here is where I would suggest that the "lost" component which is parallelto therod will add tensile stresses into the section which are additive to thebendingstresses and therefore bring the number back up. And again back to the SMA, the bending has the effect of shorteningthemoment arm in the horizontal plane, in this case by 5.25 inches ( cosineofit's deflection angle X each 5 inch increment). This one I'm lost on. Seems that the stresses taken at the same 5" sectiononthe horzontal plane would actually have an arm less than 5" (3.54") if youwerestill considering the original force but remain 5" when you take thenormalforce. Sorry for the weak description... am I missing something (other thanclarity) Both these phenomena, normalizing moments and foreshorteningmoment armsseem to have the effect of reducing actual stresses (compared tocalculatedstresses)progressively toward the tip.Woulden't it be amazing if some rod building mathematical geniuswouldsolve D.Y. Barrer's differential equations only to find that real world flyrod stress curves are more or less horizontal lines centering about150,000inch-ounces? -------Bill Fink I apologize for adding my two cents without having read the Garrisonstuff. I'mjust interested in what you're saying and trying to get to an understandingof thedynamic behavior of fly rods. Help me with with the D.Y. Barrier equationreference.I promise to buy Garrisons book soon so I don't make you all rehash stuffyou mayalready know. Thanks //----------------------------------------------------------------//Barry H. Welliver(wellive@ibm.net)Draper, UtahWherever you go..... There you will be. from caneman@clnk.com Tue Sep 17 23:34:30 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA10571 for; Tue, 17 Sep 1996 23:34:28 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA181 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Grooved Sole on Planes Mike,I accidentally deleted your original on the subject ofsharpening plane blades, so here's a new thread. I spent about 7hours yesterday and 10 hours today beveling strips (fishing trip gotcancelled) and for once kept track of how my planes were performing.First, I have a .0015" x 1.250" groove in the sole of all of myplanes. While beveling today, I got as many as 11 strips from one bladeto as little as 5 strips. I beveled a total of 54 strips, and while Ididn't count how many I got with 3 of my planes, I did all of these withmy 6 planes and didn't have to stop to sharpen. (nice to have 6 planes).The last plane still had a nice edge on it when I finished the laststrip. That is an average of 8.1 strips per blade. This number shouldnot change on my steel planing form, because the grooved sole preventsthe blade from ever coming in contact with the form. I probably willnever try more than 6 strips per blade in the tapering process, but, onthe average, at least, this little experiment proved to me that I amreasonably safe in assuming that I can count on one plane per rodsection when final planing. The Grooved sole definitely makes adifference. Bob Nunley from ttalsma@macatawa.org Wed Sep 18 07:06:19 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19035 for ; Organization: Sligh Furniture Subject: Re: Stress analysis of the posted Cross taper Jim Fillpot wrote: WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Ps - If you (or others) don't have a revised copy of Hexrod and wouldlikeone - I will download as requested. But tomorrow night I'm out of here couple weeks Wayne, I would also like a copy of the new Hexrod. Also are there anyplans on a version for Mac users? If you are not planning on making one translate the program to mac if he had the code. He is willing to to this butI know my PC friends are getting tired of me tying up their machines. Jim FillpotWayne,If I could get a copy of the new Hexrod, I would appreciate it.Thanks in advance.Todd Talsma-- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Todd Talsma +Sligh Furniture Company+Phone:616-394- 0560++Sr. Systems Analyst+1201 Industrial Avenue +Fax: 616-392- 9495++++++++++++++++++++++Holland MI 49423 ++++++++++++++++++++ from bean@vassar.edu Wed Sep 18 07:33:43 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA21510 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 07:33:42 -0500 #15333) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Re: Hexrod on a MAC Mike Biondo said -Hey guys, through the generosity of Wayne in supplying the code,and the cleverness of a couple list members there is an EXCELspreadsheet version of HEXROD available on the RODMAKERS webpage. Does anyone have the URL for this webpage? I've been unable to locateit with any of the search engines I have available. Thanks,Jay from caneman@clnk.com Wed Sep 18 11:44:24 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA05394 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 11:44:15 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA172 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Dry Fly Taper After building and trashing 3 rods trying to get what I wanted, here ismy latest taper. I just finished the first "good" rod on this taper andit casts like a dream. It is a DRY FLY rod, so if you like a soft tipand strong butt, give it a try when your not so busy. I used a 9/64thferrule on this, but I make them in my shop. If you don't fab your ownferrules, you could probably get by with a 10/64ths standard. Stresscurve looks a little strange on paper, but it works when you put a 2DTline and an Adams on it. Bob Nunley 6'9" Dry Fly Action, 2p 2w, 9/64th Ferrule. Excellent Dry fly rod.Sta. Tip Butt01 .046 .14705 .056 .16210 .073 .18015 .087 .20320 .105 .22125 .119 .24130 .126 .26235 .137 .26240 .145 .26242.5 .147 .262 from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Sep 18 12:40:30 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08339 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 12:40:29 -0500 CDT Subject: Re: Grooved Sole on Planes Bob seez... That is an average of 8.1 strips per blade. This number shouldnot change on my steel planing form, because the grooved sole preventsthe blade from ever coming in contact with the form. That's pretty impressive Bob! How did you go about grooving the soles? Also, do you, like Darryl groove the sole of your scraper? Darryl, with a grooved sole in your scraper, how do you takeyour strips down to final dimensions, which in most cases isthe top of the forms? Do you set your forms a little shallowof final dimension? Mike - groovey - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from mrj@seanet.com Wed Sep 18 14:54:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA15875 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:54:48 -0500 Subject: wise fishermans encyclopedia I just found a copy of "Wise Fishermans Encyclopedia" by AJ Mclane. It isa1957 print of the 1951 original copyright date. It is in good condition butthedust jacket is only half there. It is $25.00. Is this a good deal? Doesanyonewant it? If so let me know. It is in a shop and who knows when it will besold,but it is there now. mrj@seanet.com Martin Jensen "Fishing tackle: This is an extreme but useful maneuver for preventing afellowconclaver angler fromreaching the best fishing hole before you do. - McManis Daffynitions " from hadn@chevron.com Wed Sep 18 15:52:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19055 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:52:38 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 18 Sep 1996 13:51:42 -0700 Wed, 18 Sep 1996 13:51:42 -0700 Subject: Garrison Book 4.0.993.5Encoding: 11 TEXT I don't know if availability is still limited, since I haven't beenkeeping track after buying my own, but, I was just in BobMarriott's fly fishing store at lunchtime and noticed theyhad 3 copies of the Garrison book for $75 each. Order number is 800-535-6633.They also have a web page at:http://www.bobmarriotts.com Darryl Hayashida from caneman@clnk.com Wed Sep 18 17:00:33 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23646 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:00:27 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA66 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Grooved Sole on Planes Michael Biondo wrote: Bob seez... That is an average of 8.1 strips per blade. This number shouldnot change on my steel planing form, because the grooved sole preventsthe blade from ever coming in contact with the form. That's pretty impressive Bob! How did you go about grooving the soles? Also, do you, like Darryl groove the sole of your scraper? Darryl, with a grooved sole in your scraper, how do you takeyour strips down to final dimensions, which in most cases isthe top of the forms? Do you set your forms a little shallowof final dimension? Mike - groovey - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo.Mike,I have a friend who has a machine shop and I used his end millto groove the soles of my planes. I set the plane up so that the bladeis about .001 above the surface of the form and set my forms up .001shallow. And, no, my scraper is not grooved. from hadn@chevron.com Wed Sep 18 17:00:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23682 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:00:35 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:59:46 -0700 Wed, 18 Sep 1996 14:59:46 -0700 Subject: RE: Grooved Sole on Planes 4.0.993.5Encoding: 33 TEXT Darryl, with a grooved sole in your scraper, how do you takeyour strips down to final dimensions, which in most cases isthe top of the forms? Do you set your forms a little shallowof final dimension? The blade rides just above the metal form, but doesn'tactually touch it. That's what the groove is for. Withouta groove the blade has to stick out below past the soleof the plane to cut. With a groove you set the bladeeven with the sole, but the blade will still cut becauseof the groove. The groove is not deep, perhaps .002to .003. In fact if you covered up half the groove lengthwise and looked at it, it looks like a slight ridge runningdown the length of the plane sole. scraper has an even shallower groove, about .001 to.002. The scraper blade is set to barely touch the metalof the form. Just kisses it. Not enough to scrape anymetal off, but it no longer takes any bamboo whenthe strip reaches final dimension. And, I suppose ifyou were able to measure that closely I suppose Iwould be a half to a quarter thousandths thicker thanif I didn't have the grooves, but as another lister noticed,measure your final glued up blank across all flats at thesame station and see how far off you are there. Thebenefits from your blades staying sharp longer faroutweighs the minus of being very slightly off inyour final dimension. Darryl Hayashida from hadn@chevron.com Wed Sep 18 17:27:27 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24589 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:27:25 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:26:36 -0700 Wed, 18 Sep 1996 15:26:36 -0700 Subject: RE: Dry Fly Taper - stress curve 4.0.993.5Encoding: 26 TEXT After building and trashing 3 rods trying to get what I wanted, here ismy latest taper. I just finished the first "good" rod on this taper andit casts like a dream. It is a DRY FLY rod, so if you like a soft tipand strong butt, give it a try when your not so busy. I used a 9/64thferrule on this, but I make them in my shop. If you don't fab your ownferrules, you could probably get by with a 10/64ths standard. Stresscurve looks a little strange on paper, but it works when you put a 2DTline and an Adams on it. Bob Nunley I know you expected it so here it is... This stress curve of this taper looks sort of like a hybrid betweenthe Cross rod or the 7 ft 4 wt in Wayne's book, and a Paul Youngparabolic. It has the two hump camel silhouette of a PY Para, butthe hump nearest the handle is much reduced and moved to themid section of the rod. Another difference is that the maximumpoint of the curve is at 6 inches from the tip, perhaps answeringmy question about tip design and tight loops from a week ago.The butt *is* stiff, going down to 100,000 inch-ounces at 55 inches from the tip (using 30 feet of 2 wt line). Darryl Hayashida from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Wed Sep 18 17:58:30 1996 ; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 17:58:29 -0500 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0076; Wed, 18 Sep 96 16:00:02 -0400 Subject: Re: Hexrod on a MAC Jay - Try using ftp://sirronald.wustl.edu/pub/rm. Works for me. Good luck. Rich Brown from bill@trident.net Wed Sep 18 18:24:29 1996 ; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:24:26 -0500 (post.office MTA v1.9.1 ID# 81-11796) with SMTP id AAA78 0400 Subject: identifying a bamboo rod Gentlemen, I'm looking for some help identifying athe maker andinformation about a split bamboo rod I recently purchased. I'm new tothis, but very interested... If this is the wrong forum, please acceptmy appology...but the butt end of the rod has the name "Noris" and it ishand written on the rod itself. the top and bottom guide appear to be ofnickel silver with a liner ring that appears to be made of agate orsomething similar..The rod also has an undistinguisable word, then"Original Noris 1948 a"/// any help or information would be appreciatedagain thank you Bill from caneman@clnk.com Wed Sep 18 18:41:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA27972 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 18:40:48 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA43 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper - stress curve Hayashida, Darryl N. (hadn) wrote: After building and trashing 3 rods trying to get what I wanted, here ismy latest taper. I just finished the first "good" rod on this taper andit casts like a dream. It is a DRY FLY rod, so if you like a soft tipand strong butt, give it a try when your not so busy. I used a 9/64thferrule on this, but I make them in my shop. If you don't fab your ownferrules, you could probably get by with a 10/64ths standard. Stresscurve looks a little strange on paper, but it works when you put a 2DTline and an Adams on it. Bob Nunley I know you expected it so here it is... This stress curve of this taper looks sort of like a hybrid betweenthe Cross rod or the 7 ft 4 wt in Wayne's book, and a Paul Youngparabolic. It has the two hump camel silhouette of a PY Para, butthe hump nearest the handle is much reduced and moved to themid section of the rod. Another difference is that the maximumpoint of the curve is at 6 inches from the tip, perhaps answeringmy question about tip design and tight loops from a week ago.The butt *is* stiff, going down to 100,000 inch-ounces at 55 inches from the tip (using 30 feet of 2 wt line). Darryl Hayashida You're right Darryl, I did kind of anticipate some feedback once peoplestarted looking at the stress curve. Actually, what I started with wasmy stress curve for my Supreme series rods. It is quite parabolic, andsimilar to the PY para's except that mine were a bit thinner above thehandle. I dropped the curve off initially to about 110,000 at thebottom end, from there, I neglected the stresses and went for feel withthe next two rods. When I came up with the final rod and final taper, Irecomputed the stresses from the dimensions and came up with a value ofabout 92000 oz/in at 65. Try recalculating the stress curve for 35 feetof 2wt and you will come up with a value at 55 of about 110700 in/oz.This super strong butt section coupled with the soft, soft, tip makesleader only casting absolutely easy. You will notice when calculated at35 feet, that my Fmax reaches nearly 280000 in/oz. I have no doubt thatthe rod will work well at these values. As a matter of fact, I havebeen in the front yard this afternoon, hard casting a weighted nymph inthe 50 foot plus range, abusing the rod as much as I possibly can (I am6'4" and weigh about 250... I can abuse a rod with the best of them).What did I find? I found that it cast great as far out as 60 feet.That is a 2dt with a hard double haul... but the rod did it's job. Itlaid the line out with a tight loop to within a couple of feet of theline I was aiming for. Bottom line: this rod is a killer. from jfoster@gte.net Wed Sep 18 19:05:21 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA28752 for; Wed, 18 Sep 1996 19:05:19 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) viaESMTP id TAA29166 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 199619:03:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Hexrod on a MAC Rich The permanent archives are now at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Jer from 102130.461@CompuServe.COM Wed Sep 18 22:17:04 1996 WAA05667 for ; Wed, 18 Sep 199622:17:03 -0500 Subject: Sunny in Downtown Grayrock from Wayne in Grayrock, via Steve's computer: Having took at bit of a break I am Pleased to report that Yes the sundoesshine in downtown Grayrock - since monday I have been punishing a fewnewrecruits to the rod making adventure -so far I seemingly am the only onewho hashad to run for the band aids. Steve Southard just downloaded all the pastmailthat I have missed and I see that sharpening has been mentioned quite abit.This week we have been trying a few new methods and tools - Thanksto KenRongey and Miles Tiernan - we have been able to try the Veritas bladeholdersand the diamond sharpening stones. The combination seems to save quite abit oftime - although we are still trying different regiments of diamond andwaterstone (a better report will follow).On the subject of any powered sharpening wheels - I've been able totrythem and was sadly disappointed in there lack of speed.A nice bit of nostalga - Terry O Connor bought a white apron andaskedthe other members of the class to sign it - I followed and thought that itmightbe fitting to have the students of each class sign one and hang them in theclubhouse as a lasting reminder ---- Anyway that brought up the idea for amomento for the next get together here (Grayrock 97) - a shop arpon withsomeinprint for those that attend - Perhaps a hexagonal (sorry Bill Fink) endcutwith the name that the group decides on. Comments??????Well so much for the break - I should get back to the clubhouse beforesomething bad happens. from (Sunny) Grayrock Wayne from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Sep 19 09:35:18 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25297 for; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 09:35:17 -0500 CDT Subject: Re: Hexrod on a MAC Rich seez... Try using ftp://sirronald.wustl.edu/pub/rm. Works for me. Good luck. Just a reminder folks...the sirronald site may be permanently shut downat any time now. The archives there have not been updated for a fewmonthsnow. The current archives are now house on the RODMAKERS web page thatis maintained by Jerry Foster. The address is: http://HOME1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from mrj@seanet.com Thu Sep 19 16:05:05 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17937 for; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 16:04:58 -0500 Subject: Re: FW: wise fishermans encyclopedia OK Olaf,I just picked the book up and it is yours. Hopefully you got my e-mail toyoupersonally. In message "Borge, Olaf A." writes:Martin,If it is not already taken ........ I will. ----------From: Martin Jensen[SMTP:mrj@seanet.com]Sent: Wednesday, September 18, 1996 2:51 PM Subject: wise fishermans encyclopedia I just found a copy of "Wise Fishermans Encyclopedia" by AJ Mclane. Itis a1957 print of the 1951 original copyright date. It is in good conditionbut thedust jacket is only half there. It is $25.00. Is this a good deal? Doesanyonewant it? If so let me know. It is in a shop and who knows when it willbe sold,but it is there now. mrj@seanet.com Martin Jensen "Fishing tackle: This is an extreme but useful maneuver for preventing afellowconclaver angler fromreaching the best fishing hole before you do. - McManis Daffynitions " Martin Jensen "Fishing tackle: This is an extreme but useful maneuver for preventing afellowconclaver angler fromreaching the best fishing hole before you do. - McManis Daffynitions " from mrj@seanet.com Thu Sep 19 18:52:52 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25064 for; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 18:52:46 -0500 Subject: Duracane? I am looking for any information on just what the term "Duracane" reallymeans.A friend has seen it printed on a H L Leonard rod from approximately the'30'sor the '40's. Any information as to it's defination and any referencesourceswould be appreciated. I have heard of it but can find no written word on it. If I had to guess I would say it is an impregnation process, the name beingahybred of "durable" and "cane". Again, this would be only my guess. Martin Jensen "Fishing tackle: This is an extreme but useful maneuver for preventing afellowconclaver angler fromreaching the best fishing hole before you do. - McManis Daffynitions " from jhward@montana.campus.mci.net Thu Sep 19 23:19:28 1996 XAA02170 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:19:26-0500 WAA06465 for ; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 22:17:41 Subject: Cane blanks Dear folks:I am a beginning cane rod builder and would like information onobtaining bamboo rod blanks. I would like to learn some of the simplertechniques before I attempt to split and glue up my own blanks. Take Care, Jeffjhward.montana@montana.campus.mci.net from caneman@clnk.com Thu Sep 19 23:37:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA02654 for; Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:37:06 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA43 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Cane blanks Jeffrey H. Ward wrote: Dear folks:I am a beginning cane rod builder and would like information onobtaining bamboo rod blanks. I would like to learn some of the simplertechniques before I attempt to split and glue up my own blanks. Take Care, Jeffjhward.montana@montana.campus.mci.netJeff,Partridge makes a decent impregnated blank. Cost around $330 you. Good luck, RL Bob NunleySpring Valley Rod Co. http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm101 West Dora LanePoteau, OK 74953 from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Fri Sep 20 07:04:37 1996 ; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 05:03:50 -0700 Subject: planingform OK, guys, I've been reading the books, subscribed tio the "Planing Form" andI guess thetime has come to start assembling the materials to tackle my first canerod. Since Idon't have power tools (e.g., router, table saw, drill press etc), and don'twant to buya whole bunch of tools just to build the tools to make cane rods, I guess Iwill buyyhe final form (ouch!!). Can someone give me recommendations as to thebest suppliersof forms. Thanks, Mike --Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625 from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 20 08:13:30 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA11631 for; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:13:29 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA175 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: planingform Mike Ray wrote: OK, guys, I've been reading the books, subscribed tio the "Planing Form"and I guess thetime has come to start assembling the materials to tackle my first canerod. Since Idon't have power tools (e.g., router, table saw, drill press etc), and don'twant to buya whole bunch of tools just to build the tools to make cane rods, I guessI will buyyhe final form (ouch!!). Can someone give me recommendations as to thebest suppliersof forms. Thanks, Mike --Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625Mike, Bootstrap. His web site is listed on the web site that Jerry maintainsathttp://HOME1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm If you have enough patience, you won't have to have all of thenice power tools to build your own stuff. Remember, hex rods have beenbeing built for over a century and most of the early makers didn't havethese tools. A few files, a couple of planes, time and a lot ofimagination will be enough to build most everything you need. Good Luck, RL "Bob" NunleySpring Valley Rod Co. http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm101 West Dora LanePoteau, OK 74953"Flyfishin is a lot like sex... the more youpractice, the slower you go and the better youbecome at it, the more enjoyable it is..."Unknown smiling FFer from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Fri Sep 20 09:01:09 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA13587 for; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 09:01:07 -0500 IAA13794; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 08:00:04 -0600 Subject: Re: planingform Mike Ray wrote: OK, guys, I've been reading the books, subscribed tio the "Planing Form"and I guess thetime has come to start assembling the materials to tackle my firstcane rod. Since Idon't have power tools (e.g., router, table saw, drill press etc), and don'twant to buya whole bunch of tools just to build the tools to make cane rods, I guessI will buyyhe final form (ouch!!). Can someone give me recommendations as to thebest suppliersof forms. Thanks, Mike --Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625Mike, Bootstrap. His web site is listed on the web site that Jerry maintainsathttp://HOME1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm If you have enough patience, you won't have to have all of thenice power tools to build your own stuff. Remember, hex rods have beenbeing built for over a century and most of the early makers didn't havethese tools. A few files, a couple of planes, time and a lot ofimagination will be enough to build most everything you need. Good Luck, RL "Bob" NunleySpring Valley Rod Co. http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm101 West Dora LanePoteau, OK 74953"Flyfishin is a lot like sex... the more youpractice, the slower you go and the better youbecome at it, the more enjoyable it is..."Unknown smiling FFer I bought my form from Armbruster and for me was very much worth theprice.Frank has also came up with a roughing form wich is adjustable like thefinish forms. I know the rough form is easier to build than the finishform but if time is short Franks form work beautifully. If you would liketo reach Frank by phone his number is 303/745-1353. Also Bob is right you do not need power tools to make most of the tools.Good luck, Jim Fillpot from rfairfie@cisco.com Fri Sep 20 09:45:13 1996 HAA10690 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 07:44:26 - 0700 Subject: Re: Cane blanks Jeff, Anglers Workshop, http://anglersworkshop.com, have blanks, eitherone or two tip models for $330 or $460 respectively. They can be reachedat1- 800-278-1069. They also have a mailorder catalogue for the asking. Lookthem up! Have fun--this is a fun hobby. I am going to attempt splitting my firstcanesometime this winter. Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Sep 19 21:42:47 1996Date: Thu, 19 Sep 1996 23:34:14 -0500 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: caneman@clnk.com (Robert Nunley Jr.) Subject: Re: Cane blanksMIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U)X- Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 585 Jeffrey H. Ward wrote: Dear folks:I am a beginning cane rod builder and would like information onobtaining bamboo rod blanks. I would like to learn some of the simplertechniques before I attempt to split and glue up my own blanks. Take Care, Jeffjhward.montana@montana.campus.mci.netJeff,Partridge makes a decent impregnated blank. Cost around $330 you. Good luck, RL Bob NunleySpring Valley Rod Co. http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm101 West Dora LanePoteau, OK 74953 from hsc4floo@wwa.com Fri Sep 20 14:02:46 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA28035 for; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:02:44 -0500 (Smail3.1.29.1 #3) id m0v4ApN-00016KC; Fri, 20 Sep 96 14:01 CDT Subject: Re: guide finishes JimI maybe in the minority on this, but when I build new rods (vsrestoration projects) I use flex-cote rod finish on the wraps. The buildis excellent as well as the finish looks just like six coats of varnishwithout the hassle. The other interesting aspect of this compositetechnique is that the flex cote doesn't seem to be adversely affected bythe varnish on the rest of the rod. Go for it, break with tradition!!!!!!!!! On Fri, 6 Sep 1996, Jim Fillpot wrote: I have finished a couple of rods, have used tung oil varnish and have beenpleased at the results. However on the guides I used a spar varnish andhave had some problems getting it as smooth as I would like. I have beenusing a clock motor that runs @ 6rpm, but several of the wraps seem tohave dimples or other blemishes. Is there a better finish than the sparvarnish that will be compatible with the tung oil varnish? I would liketo know what others are using and how their experiences have been. Jim from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 20 14:40:07 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA29506 for; Fri, 20 Sep 1996 14:40:03 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA94 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: guide finishes John L. White wrote: JimI maybe in the minority on this, but when I build new rods (vsrestoration projects) I use flex-cote rod finish on the wraps. The buildis excellent as well as the finish looks just like six coats of varnishwithout the hassle. The other interesting aspect of this compositetechnique is that the flex cote doesn't seem to be adversely affected bythe varnish on the rest of the rod. Go for it, break with tradition!!!!!!!!!John,Did you see the stress graph for my new rod taper... I willnever say anything about anyone breaking tradition. Bob Nunley from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sat Sep 21 05:33:27 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA25350 for; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 05:33:24 -0500 SAA00079; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 18:32:37 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: planingform On Fri, 20 Sep 1996, Mike Ray wrote: OK, guys, I've been reading the books, subscribed tio the "Planing Form"and I guess thetime has come to start assembling the materials to tackle my first canerod. Since Idon't have power tools (e.g., router, table saw, drill press etc), and don'twant to buya whole bunch of tools just to build the tools to make cane rods, I guessI will buyyhe final form (ouch!!). Can someone give me recommendations as to thebest suppliersof forms. Thanks, Mike --I just put the first coat of spar varnish on my first cane rod beforelooking at my mail, and while even I can't say (pround as I am of it)that the rod's as good as I will ultimately make them, this rod was madeon a set of forms I made from Jarrah which is just like Rock Maple usingWayne's dimentions. For adjustment I drilled through both pieces of woodat each 5" station, then on one piece another hole from top to bottomthrough the hole running across the forms. Then I put barrel bolts inthese holes and a strip of steel along the length of the piece of woodwith the heads of the bolts so when the bolts are loosened, the steelholds the bolts in place and the wood seperates or comes closer dependingon which you want.This cost about $15 and as I said was good enough to make a rod I'm happywith. Having made this form from wood, I'd say making one from steelwouldn't be that much harder as the amount of steel to be removed issmall and I found it tricky not to remove TOO much using wood. Many thanks to all who helped out with my questions while making thisrod. Tony Young. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Sep 21 22:12:32 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA12869 for; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 22:12:30 -0500 0600 Subject: Ron Barch Ron, Drop me a note when you get a chance. There are some things I want to runbyyou.Lost your email address. Regards, Don Andersen Sorry for the BW folks - - had no other idea how to do it. from jsbond@inforamp.net Sat Sep 21 23:38:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA14162 for; Sat, 21 Sep 1996 23:38:52 -0500 Subject: Re: wise fishermans encyclopedia Not too bad, they can be found for less, buy not too much less. JB At 12:51 18/09/96 -0700, you wrote:I just found a copy of "Wise Fishermans Encyclopedia" by AJ Mclane. It isa1957 print of the 1951 original copyright date. It is in good condition butthedust jacket is only half there. It is $25.00. Is this a good deal? Doesanyonewant it? If so let me know. It is in a shop and who knows when it will besold,but it is there now. mrj@seanet.com Martin Jensen "Fishing tackle: This is an extreme but useful maneuver for preventing afellowconclaver angler fromreaching the best fishing hole before you do. - McManis Daffynitions " James Bond, Toronto, CanadaFax (416) 444-4196E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jfoster@gte.net Sun Sep 22 20:01:39 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09261 for; Sun, 22 Sep 1996 20:01:38 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) viaESMTP id TAA17144 for ; Sun, 22 Sep 199619:59:40 -0500 Subject: Re: links-- GangJust added Tony Young's page from downunder and the Demarest's check 'em out jwf from mstevens@prolog.net Sun Sep 22 21:55:08 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA12936 for ;Sun, 22 Sep 1996 21:55:00 - 0500 ns1.ptd.net (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA13271 for Subject: E.K.Tryon Co. Hello, Does anybody have a Catalog of the Edward K. Tryon Co. of Philadelphia? Ipicked up a Jay Harvey "Cleveland" Model and would like some info. Wouldbe glad to pay for copies. Also I need info on "Bob Smith" rods, I think from a store in Boston. Thanks for any help. Mike Stevens Michael StevensStevens Sight & Tool Co.610 681 5670mstevens@prolog.net from PUrban1032@gnn.com Mon Sep 23 16:51:31 1996 QAA01408 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 16:51:30-0500 RAA01466 for ; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:50:44 Subject: Contemporary rodmakers I am looking to purchase a new rod from one of the current rodmakers. Any suggestions? from hadn@chevron.com Mon Sep 23 17:04:49 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA02033 for; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:04:46 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:03:59 -0700 Mon, 23 Sep 1996 15:03:59 -0700 Subject: RE: Contemporary rodmakers 4.0.993.5Encoding: 15 TEXT I am looking to purchase a new rod from one of the current rodmakers. Any suggestions? I can get no indication form your return email address whatpart of the world you are from, but if you are in the LosAngeles/Orange County area Bob Marriotts is going tohave a showing of the work of contemporary Californiasplit cane rodmakers on a Saturday sometime soon.( Sorry, don't know the exact date right now ) It wouldbe a great way to see and compare the rods from severaldifferent makers all at the same place. Darryl Hayashida from caneman@clnk.com Mon Sep 23 17:17:01 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA02522 for; Mon, 23 Sep 1996 17:17:00 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA190 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Contemporary rodmakers Paul Urban wrote: I am looking to purchase a new rod from one of the current rodmakers. Any suggestions?Paul,Yep.... Me. Seriously, Any of the professional rod makers thatare willing to guarantee their rods against damage from proper use areprobably worth buying from. There are many that participate on thislist that are pro's and will build you a quality product at a fairprice. But.... if you think you might be interested in one of mine,Check out my web site. Good luck in your search and be sure you choosea maker because he build the style and type of rod that you prefer tofish with. Tight Lines,RL Bob Nunley, Maker caneman@clnk.comSpring Valley Rod Co. http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm101 West Dora LanePoteau, OK 74953 Shop 918-647-9237 Home 918-647-3549 from cparham@crocker.com Tue Sep 24 05:57:09 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA25397 for; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 05:57:04 -0500 rmc1.crocker.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id GAA21949 for; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 06:54:01 -0400 Organization: Judd Wire, Inc. Subject: Site error Does anyone know what happened to the rod building site at: http://www.artorg.hmc.psu.edu/~dkatz/rodbuilding.html The first page opens but then everything else returns a 'file not found'error. Thanks Charles Parham P.S. My son and I are thinking of building a pair of rods this winter.The messages have been a great help. Thank you all very much. from mrj@seanet.com Tue Sep 24 10:05:55 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA03303 for; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 10:05:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Site error II checked it out too and came up with the same thing. He must have takenit"off the air" huh? n message writes:Does anyone know what happened to the rod building site at: http://www.artorg.hmc.psu.edu/~dkatz/rodbuilding.html The first page opens but then everything else returns a 'file not found'error. Thanks Charles Parham P.S. My son and I are thinking of building a pair of rods this winter.The messages have been a great help. Thank you all very much. Martin Jensen "Fishing tackle: This is an extreme but useful maneuver for preventing afellowconclaver angler fromreaching the best fishing hole before you do. - McManis Daffynitions " from bconner@cybercom.net Tue Sep 24 15:08:31 1996 ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 15:08:29 -0500 QAA10530 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 16:07:43-0400 Subject: A new goody :') Just a little addition to my web page you might want to see if you have aJava capable browser. I have made a Java applet version of the leadercalculator which resides athttp://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/Fishgood.html It only does English measurements right now, but I'm working on addingthemetric options. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from jfoster@gte.net Tue Sep 24 19:26:48 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01496 for; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:26:46 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) viaESMTP id TAA14706 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 199619:26:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Site error Martin There's a home page with a name search athttp://www.artorg.hmc.psu.eduIf you put in katz and you know which d katz your looking for you mightemail him and see where he put his page luckjwf from jfoster@gte.net Tue Sep 24 19:31:56 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01650 for; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:31:54 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) viaESMTP id TAA16874 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 199619:31:04 -0500 Subject: Re: A new goody :') Bruce Neat goodie.. even on my mac.. netscape 3.0 java compliant anyway thats a great online tool jwf from jfoster@gte.net Tue Sep 24 19:44:28 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01901 for; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 19:44:26 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) viaESMTP id TAA21940 for ; Tue, 24 Sep 199619:43:42 -0500 Subject: Re:help OS2 Heros rich is having a problem donloading from the rma archives on the website. have any of you downloaded any of the text files and does it workproperly on os2 ruunning ibm's browser nor is it my problem help jwf from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Tue Sep 24 20:10:16 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA02390 for; Tue, 24 Sep 1996 20:10:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Site error Martin,Try my flyfishing links at my homepage - I think I made a recent changeto Katz's page - something about short-term-memory-slippage :>) - andnothaving access to my page from home at the moment. Hope this helpsLen Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from cparham@crocker.com Wed Sep 25 14:13:34 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10424 for; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 14:13:28 -0500 rmc1.crocker.com (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA01097 for; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 15:10:31 -0400 Organization: Judd Wire, Inc. Subject: Re: Site error Jerry Foster wrote: Martin There's a home page with a name search athttp://www.artorg.hmc.psu.eduIf you put in katz and you know which d katz your looking for you mightemail him and see where he put his page luckjwfI found Mr. Katz at: dkatz@artorg.hmc.psu.edu graduated and moved on. from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Sep 25 17:50:24 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23377 for; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 17:50:22 -0500 Sep 1996 18:49:52 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re:help Jerry I have no problem with using OS2 and the WebExplorer for this.The only problem anyone may have is with Java sites or those that havesome of netscapes frames. But..... the following will fix that: There is a Beta of a native lang version of Netscape for os2 availat: http://www.internet.ibm.com/browsers/netscape/warp Chris from jfoster@gte.net Wed Sep 25 18:57:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25961 for; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 18:57:53 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) viaESMTP id SAA11237 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 199618:56:59 -0500 Subject: Re: help chris Thanxjerry did you ever get your excel issue fixed? from jfoster@gte.net Wed Sep 25 20:17:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA28604 for; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 20:17:53 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) viaESMTP id UAA12257 for ; Wed, 25 Sep 199620:17:09 -0500 Subject: Re:rod.zip Mike while browsing i noticed a sirronald file named rod.zip,, do i have itwhat is it? thanx jer from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Sep 25 21:51:18 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA02713 for; Wed, 25 Sep 1996 21:51:17 -0500 Subject: Tuning Planing forms Greetings, I want to take my forms apart to give them a thorough cleaning and minorcorrosion removal. I have Frank's forms. Has anyone done this and are thereany problems that may arise. I also am planning to coat them with aproductcalled TopCote which is for table saws, you spray the components and thenrub the protectant right into the metal to prevent any moisture fromgetting in. Please advise, JBJames Bond, Toronto, CanadaFax (416) 444-4196E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Sep 26 08:51:03 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23995 for; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 08:51:02 -0500 CDT Subject: Re:rod.zip not sure what it is. I'll check it out and let you know... Mike- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Sep 26 10:05:38 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA28113 for; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:05:34 -0500 0600 Subject: Info on the "net" Micheal & Jerry et al, I am confused about the legal ramifications of information provided to therodmakers bulletin board. I am aware that there have been items posted tothe archives where the author was not contacted prior to the inclusion ofthe article/item to the achives. from my prespective, I do not care one way or the other. However, itseemsto be prudent that items that are not posted to the bulletin board ( wherethe author should believe that this information is now public domain andcanbe used by anyone) but are "lifted" from other sources, that at least theauthor is contacted and permission secured prior to archiving thearticle/item. At a minimum, common courtesy should dictate that theauthorbe contacted. I realize that the internet is as close to anarchy as it gets in today'sworld what with the push to have information provided @ an everincreasingpace but there are still copyright laws that govern people's actions withregard to proprietory information. Is the Internet different? If so, whereis it written or at least understood by common convention howinformationshould be handled on the net? Similarly, there have been times that I and others have written to thebulletin board and private email messages about rod building techniques orequipment. These messages are now whose property. The reason I ask hasto dowith several items I would like to submit to the Planning Form that werepreviously mentioned on the "net". Does that now mean that I loseownershipand have to contact the listmiester or _______ ? to get permission toprintthe same article to what has to be a wider audience than Rodmakers. Ifsuchis the case, it seems to be that inhibition of information flow on the netwould be the result. Nobody wants that - certainly not me!!! We all benefit from "info-speed".So what's the solution - just go ahead and submit the article to thePlanning Form and let Ron take the heat, if any? I can't imagine anyonecaring if the person who authored an article resubmitted it to a differentforum, but in today's world it seems like everyone has an opinion and somelike to sue. Help, Don Andersen from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Sep 26 10:54:17 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA01404 for; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 10:54:16 -0500 CDT Subject: Re: Info on the "net" Don Anderson, mentioning his concerns... I am confused about the legal ramifications of information provided totherodmakers bulletin board. I am aware that there have been items postedtothe archives where the author was not contacted prior to the inclusion ofthe article/item to the achives. Don, I am not aware of any verbatim articles that were posted, or residein the archives, that the author has not been first notified. If thereare any that I am not aware of, and the author would prefer them not tobe in the archives, then by all means they should not be there. Similarly, there have been times that I and others have written to thebulletin board and private email messages about rod building techniquesorequipment. These messages are now whose property. The reason I ask hasto dowith several items I would like to submit to the Planning Form that werepreviously mentioned on the "net". Does that now mean that I loseownershipand have to contact the listmiester or _______ ? to get permission toprintthe same article to what has to be a wider audience than Rodmakers. It is my understanding, and admittedly what I've heard has been prettyvague, that the original author maintain complete ownership of theintellectual property. In other words, there is an implicit copyright.The author can do what he pleases with his own works regardless if ithas appeared on the 'net. Also from what I understand, the same goesif it were to appear in a paper newsletter...the author still maintainsthe copyright, and that material cannot be reprinted without the authorspermission. So what's the solution - just go ahead and submit the article to thePlanning Form and let Ron take the heat, if any? I can't imagine anyonecaring if the person who authored an article resubmitted it to a differentforum, but in today's world it seems like everyone has an opinion andsomelike to sue. If it's your material Don, it's yours to do what you please. I for onereally appreciates the the cross-posting' of information from theRODMAKERS list and The Planing Form. I really wish we would see more ofit. If anyone is preparing an article for The Planing Form, please postit here also, vis-versa. I am sure everyone would benefit. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from bootstrap@earthlink.net Thu Sep 26 15:02:40 1996 PAA18450 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 15:02:39-0500 NAA13540 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 13:01:42 Subject: Re: Tuning Planing forms Hi, James, this is Frank. No problems with what you want to do. Just besure you don't lose any of the screws or dowel pins. Remember that theholes at 32.5, 37.5, 42.5 & 47.5 don't have dowel pins in them, just thescrews. If you shouild happen to lose one of the screws or pins, write mehere or at 18599 E. Louisiana Ave. Aurora CO, 80017, or call me at (303)745-1353 and I'll send you replacements. Otherwise no problem. FrankArmbruster from jfoster@gte.net Thu Sep 26 19:12:25 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01861 for; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:12:24 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) viaESMTP id TAA26142 for ; Thu, 26 Sep 199619:11:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Info on the "net" Don here's my take ( However it's a good question and I'm going to throw itour co. legal source ) Things posted or sent to an open forum are not legal property, unless acopyright is included or they are previously copywri. Just a a DJ can bequoted without infringment. however , media which already has acopywright is not netfodder just because someone sends it illegally.I am very careful ( I hope ) to check with each of you before i post. orI have established a previous overall agreement. I would assume thatanything sent to Ron could not appear on the archive or the listprocwithout that persons agreement. I think Mike and I have been verycareful forinstance not to scan Rons articles onto the net. link page for permission.It's a tricky issue.. I think you take the proper path by gaining arelease for re-quotes..Remember Ron does have a legal status. It's interesting... if you happen to capture Wayne's thoughts he may bequoting his book..definitly a close call. I'll give you a legal opinion from our lawyer. Jerry from caneman@clnk.com Thu Sep 26 19:46:13 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA04391 for; Thu, 26 Sep 1996 19:46:11 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA151 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Re: Info on the "net" Jerry Foster wrote: Don here's my take ( However it's a good question and I'm going to throw itour co. legal source ) Things posted or sent to an open forum are not legal property, unless acopyright is included or they are previously copywri. Just a a DJ can bequoted without infringment. however , media which already has acopywright is not netfodder just because someone sends it illegally.I am very careful ( I hope ) to check with each of you before i post. orI have established a previous overall agreement. I would assume thatanything sent to Ron could not appear on the archive or the listprocwithout that persons agreement. I think Mike and I have been verycareful forinstance not to scan Rons articles onto the net. link page for permission.It's a tricky issue.. I think you take the proper path by gaining arelease for re-quotes..Remember Ron does have a legal status. It's interesting... if you happen to capture Wayne's thoughts he may bequoting his book..definitly a close call. I'll give you a legal opinion from our lawyer. JerryJerry, Mike, Everyone:Just to let you know, anything the listserv or any rodmaker onthe listserv receives from me, can be utilized, reprinted or retold inany form or fashion you please. If I didn't want to share it, Iwouldn't post it. This listserv is, in my opinion, an open forum forrodmakers. Even though I am young in the profession, I like to helpanyone already working as a rodmaker or any existing professional, ornovice rodmaker in any way I can, up to and including sharing some of mytapers, thoughts, ideas and philosophies of the art. Many people inthis industry (Wayne, Ron, George Maurer, Bob Summers, HomerJennings, Steve Jenkins, etc. etc. etc.) have given me so muchof their time, patience, and advice, that I think the least I could do time as a rodmaker. I owe that to the sport and I owe that to the otherpurveyors of this dying art.So, Jerry and Mike, file this note, archive it, whatever you do,and consider it legal license from this rodmaker to reprint, quote orshare for the common good, anything that I send into this listserv or toeither of you. If I don't want it shared, I will tell you. Otherwise,print it to the world. Thanks... and I have enjoyed the hell out of the listserv. I hope I can(uninfringed) be an active participant in this forum for a longtime to come. RL 'Bob' Nunley, Rodmaker caneman@clnk.comSpring Valley Rod Co http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm101 West Dora LanePoteau, OK 74953 1-918-647-9237 or 647-3549 from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Fri Sep 27 01:03:36 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id BAA15704 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 01:03:14 -0500 #14244) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: Re: info on the net-"SNOWY" Sorry but all the conversation on the latest threads does not help me getthe equipment built and acquired to build Its snowing at 7200' were below30 degrees but there will be a couple of more great weeks of good weatherto fish just getting equipment together will be asking many questionswhat aboutgrooving the sole of the plane. must it be milled? let's talk rodbuilding. from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Fri Sep 27 07:57:31 1996 HAA24452 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:57:30-0500 ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 05:56:45 -0700 Subject: sanding I'm new to this so PLEASE excuse the ignorance. I was just curious ifinstead ofplaning, at least for the last .001 or so, one could sand the cane dowm tothe surfaceof the form? Or maybe use a power sander earleir in the process to bringthe stripsdown to size? Just curious ? Mike--Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly- fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Fri Sep 27 08:50:52 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA27297 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:50:50 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Missouri House of Representatives Subject: Rejected CanePriority: normal Question to the List: A friend (with no e-mail access) is a maker of traditional longbows. a cane lamination. The cane must be from a reasonably large culm(3-4" in diameter), but the density of power fibers is not ascritical as it is in rodmaking. He is wondering if there are anyrodmakers out there with culms for sale that they have rejected forrodmaking, but that may be suitable for his bowmaking. Thanks,Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Sep 27 08:54:06 1996 ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 08:54:05 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:53:22 -0400 Subject: Rust stains? Anyone know how to remove old rust stains from bamboo? I've got a nice rod that was put away wet about 40 years ago and all theguides rusted. Almost new rod except for this, paper label on the corkstill. I plan on rewrapping it but the stains will still show. A real bummer. Don Burns from hadn@chevron.com Fri Sep 27 09:26:42 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29428 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:26:40 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:25:49 -0700 Fri, 27 Sep 1996 07:25:49 -0700 Subject: RE: Info on the "net" 4.0.993.5Encoding: 32 TEXT Just to let you know, anything the listserv or any rodmaker onthe listserv receives from me, can be utilized, reprinted or retold inany form or fashion you please. If I didn't want to share it, Iwouldn't post it. This listserv is, in my opinion, an open forum forrodmakers. Even though I am young in the profession, I like to helpanyone already working as a rodmaker or any existing professional, ornovice rodmaker in any way I can, up to and including sharing some of mytapers, thoughts, ideas and philosophies of the art. Many people inthis industry (Wayne, Ron, George Maurer, Bob Summers, HomerJennings, Steve Jenkins, etc. etc. etc.) have given me so muchof their time, patience, and advice, that I think the least I could do time as a rodmaker. I owe that to the sport and I owe that to the otherpurveyors of this dying art.So, Jerry and Mike, file this note, archive it, whatever you do,and consider it legal license from this rodmaker to reprint, quote orshare for the common good, anything that I send into this listserv or toeither of you. If I don't want it shared, I will tell you. Otherwise,print it to the world. Thanks... and I have enjoyed the hell out of the listserv. I hope I can(uninfringed) be an active participant in this forum for a longtime to come. RL 'Bob' Nunley, Rodmaker caneman@clnk.comSpring Valley Rod Co http://www.clnk.com/bob/home.htm101 West Dora LanePoteau, OK 74953 1-918-647-9237 or 647-3549 That goes for me too!!! Darryl Hayashida from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Sep 27 09:47:11 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00878 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:47:10 -0500 Subject: Re: sanding Mike Ray seez... I'm new to this so PLEASE excuse the ignorance. I was just curious ifinstead of planing, at least for the last .001 or so, one could sand thecane dowm to the surface of the form? Or maybe use a power sanderearleirin the process to bring the strips down to size? In my opinion, it really doesn't make any difference how you bring thestrips down to size...as long as they are accurate. I think the biggestproblem with power methods of beveling is a way to securely hold thecane to maintain the proper angles. For example, it seems like it wouldbe pretty tough to hold the cane in the form, to hold the sander level,and to move the sander back and forth, all at the same time. But on the other hand, it's been done. Back in the old days all the bigproduction rodmakers had some sort of power beveling equipment. While in Grayling for the Rodmakers Gathering last June, a fellow made apretty neat beveler using a router for the cutter. It did not taper thestrips, but beveled them to the initial 60 degrees really well, therebyeliminating all of your initial rough planing. I liked it so much that I built myself one. It is really a prettyclever design. All it is, is basically a router table that will holdthe router horizontal rather than vertical. Under the cutter, there isa guide with a 60 degree groove cut into it's length that can be pivotedup into the cutter. The remainder of the beveler is a couple ofpivoting hold-downs/anti-kickbacks - one mounted on either side of thecutter. It works amazingly well. My first attempt at using it wasdoing 18 strips for three tip sections. Starting with rough split,straighten, and node-flattened strips, it took 7 - 8 minutes per stripto take them down to a beveled .150, ready for final planing. I thinkthe time could easily be gotten down to 5 minutes or less once you getused to using it. Unfortunately, I don't remember the fellow's name that designed it.Do any of you that were also there remember his name? I would like toget a hold of him and ask him if has some plans drawn up that we putinto the archives. So Mike, it can be done. If you think you want to play around with your Mike - beveled - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from bconner@cybercom.net Fri Sep 27 09:47:24 1996 ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 09:47:22 -0500 KAA10245 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 10:46:30-0400 Subject: Re: Rust stains? Anyone know how to remove old rust stains from bamboo? I've got a nice rod that was put away wet about 40 years ago and all theguides rusted. Almost new rod except for this, paper label on the corkstill. I plan on rewrapping it but the stains will still show. A real bummer. Don Burns You *should* be able to remove the rust stains with a solution of Oxalicacid. It's not gonna hurt the cane (somebody warn me if I'm wrong here!). An alternative is to use an opaque wrap, like black and just put up with aDarth Vader looking rod. :') Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Sep 27 15:18:18 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA16432 for ;Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:18:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Rejected Cane TERRY FINGER wrote: Question to the List: A friend (with no e-mail access) is a maker of traditional longbows. a cane lamination. The cane must be from a reasonably large culm(3-4" in diameter), but the density of power fibers is not ascritical as it is in rodmaking. He is wondering if there are anyrodmakers out there with culms for sale that they have rejected forrodmaking, but that may be suitable for his bowmaking. Thanks,Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.usWe see almost no cane for rod building thatis 3inches OD. Most of thelargest is slightly under 3". If you friend need 3 to 4 Inche culms, Isuggest he find it in varieties other than arundaria.John Zimny from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Sep 27 15:32:34 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA17121 for ;Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:32:33 -0500 Subject: Re: sanding Mike,That fellow's name was Al Medved. And you're correct, It's a very usefulmachine. You're also right about the problem of power tapering cane. Yousimply can't get a good grip on it! It, because of its small size,eludes the conventional methods for holding. The only system that I'veknown to work is a hole drilled into the strip then mounted on acorresponding pin with holddowns before and after the cutter. Perhapsthe answer to power milling of cane lies in some sort of grinding orsanding lashup. Also, laser cutting would work if one could dissipatethe heat rapidly enough. Any mechanical engineers or machine tooldesigners out there?John Zimny from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Sep 27 16:01:19 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA18147 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:01:18 -0500 Subject: Re: sanding John Zimny seez... That fellow's name was Al Medved. Thanks John, I will drop him a line to find out if he has somedrawings on it, or would mind if drew some up. Hans Kohl asked ifI had some drawings. No, I don't have any drawings Hans, as soon asI get in touch with Al, I'll get some drawings into the archives. Perhaps the answer to power milling of cane lies in some sort of grindingor sanding lashup. I was thinking about how a motor mounted, sanding drum would workinsteadof router cutter. You have to be pretty careful with the router. If youtry to take too thick of a cut, it will have that piece of cane for lunchin nothing flat! I think a larger diameter 'cutter' would eliminate thetendancy to eat the cane if you mistakenly take too thick of a cut. Mike - cane muncher - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from jhward@montana.campus.mci.net Fri Sep 27 16:46:28 1996 QAA20076 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:46:26-0500 PAA06084 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:42:49 Subject: Winston rods Dear Folks:I had the the bug to try to build a bamboo rod for a while. Pleasetell me where to get plans for forms and the other major tools andsuppliesto get started. Also, I've been looking at some Winston made rods. Isquality like that hard to duplicate or can it be done only by a master rodbuilder like Glen Brackett? Take Care, Jeffjhward.montana@montana.campus.mci.net from rfairfie@cisco.com Fri Sep 27 17:17:22 1996 PAA23681 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 15:16:31 - 0700 Subject: Re: Winston rods Jeff, I, too, have the bug, and found some really good information athttp://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html. Bruce has directions onhow to builda set of wood forms, and I'm going to give it a try. The Rodmakers have ahome page with links to a bunch of suppliers who handle the stuff we need.It can be found at http://Home1.gte.net/jfoster/links.html. With thesetwolinks, I think I have about all I need to get started. I also bought the book I have a question for anyone reading this. How critical is the size of theplane used for final planing on the strips? I have seen a number ofreferences to the Stanley 9 1/2 plane. Is it considered optimal? Pleaseadviseas I'm about to go out and invest some $$$ in planes, stones, and otherparaphanalia. Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Sep 27 14:49:08 1996Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:52:42 -0500 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: jhward@montana.campus.mci.net (Jeffrey H. Ward) Subject: Winston rodsMime-Version: 1.0 X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 397 Dear Folks:I had the the bug to try to build a bamboo rod for a while. Pleasetell me where to get plans for forms and the other major tools andsuppliesto get started. Also, I've been looking at some Winston made rods. Isquality like that hard to duplicate or can it be done only by a master rodbuilder like Glen Brackett? Take Care, Jeffjhward.montana@montana.campus.mci.net from cbogart@ibm.net Fri Sep 27 18:04:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA23017 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:04:12 -0500 1996 19:03:06 -0400 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Info on the "net" Bob I agree with you - pass the info on. If someone didn't stopand share with me then I wouldn't be where I am today. thank god Chris from hadn@chevron.com Fri Sep 27 18:15:43 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA23541 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:15:41 -0500 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:14:56 -0700 Fri, 27 Sep 1996 16:14:56 -0700 Subject: RE: Winston rods 4.0.993.5Encoding: 20 TEXT I have a question for anyone reading this. How critical is the size of theplane used for final planing on the strips? I have seen a number ofreferences to the Stanley 9 1/2 plane. Is it considered optimal? The size of the Stanley 9 1/2 is just about right, and anotherconsiderationis the adjustable throat. You need that feature, but there are otherbrandsthat are made the same, one of them is Record. I have a Stanley 9 1/2, and the equivalent Record plane. The Record issmaller than the Stanley by just a little bit. I have small hands and Ifeel I have more control with the Record than with the Stanley. TheStanley is still used for taking off thicker shavings, but when I getclose to final dimensions, I use the Record. I guess I'm telling youto get both. Darryl Hayashida from cbogart@ibm.net Fri Sep 27 18:18:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA23693 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:18:38 -0500 1996 19:18:08 -0400 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Rejected Cane Terry At Roscoe NY there was a rodmaker who also make longbows.the technologies and skills used are quite simular. Have your friend giveRick Ingraham a call at 518 686 5738 for info and technique. I don't thinkyou need the really big culm of tonkin. Another type of bamboo is alsoused for that - they have it at the wharehouse that also deals Demarest'scane - I think the phone nr is 1-800-4bamboo or something like that.FYI Wes Jordan made some famous tonkin laminated bows thatset several world distance records. Chris from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Sep 27 18:31:15 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA24460 for ;Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:31:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Info on the "net" Well Said, Don! Ralph Moon Ralph Moon from jfoster@gte.net Fri Sep 27 19:50:38 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA27033 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 19:50:36 -0500 mail.gte.net (951211.SGI.8.6.12.PATCH1042/950213.SGI.AUTOCF) viaESMTP id TAA24865 for ; Fri, 27 Sep 199619:49:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Winston rods Jeff/Roger Some of the most valuable Info on the Archive is containd under theRMA.. button.. it's a lot of data but take the time to wade through itwhen you get the chanch. it's the monthly library of the last year or soof this (Mikes) listprocessor good luck Jerry from caneman@clnk.com Fri Sep 27 20:32:16 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27825 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:32:14 -0500 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA208 +0000 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: This is why we do it!!!! This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------76D860BDF2F Fellow rodmakers:The following is an email I just received from a customer whodrove up here from Dallas to pick up his 6' 2wt rod. Comments like hisare what make rodmaking worth while. NOVICES... if you ever get aletter like this, then you have learned your craft well... Thanks toall of the guys I mentioned in the INFO thread for helping me get toa point in my rodmaking where I get letters like this... Bob Nunley Here it is: Bob, Oklahoma is sure a soggy place. I thought a lot of Oakies went toCalifornia someyears ago because it was dusty up there...They should see it now!! When I got back to Broken Bow yesterday afternoon, the river was almostready to plow,so obviously I didn't fish the new stick and all I could do last nightwas sit in themotel room and ogle the rod! When I got up this morning it was stillraining, so Ipointed the iron pony toward Big D and got home about 11:00am. Icouldn't wait to takethe rod up to show David and Cathie Coleman (Westbank Anglers) and theywere impressed, although David hasthe old misconception of the fragility of cane and was almost afraid totouch it. I thentook it up to show Marcos Enriquez, who runs the fishing side of theDallas Orvis store,and I had to wipe his drool off of it. I very much enjoyed watching hisglasses fog upand his eyes cloud over. He was very envious as were the other guys whowork in thestore and your ability and artistry received a lot of compliments. Ithen went to alocal park lake near my house since it was windy, cloudy, and cold, butdry, here andI christened the fishing pole. The first fish the rod caught was a 6"largemouth blackbass on one of those little Orange Ashers I showed you. Folks aroundthis park have beenthrowing bass in there and they have spawned, apparently, because I wenton to catch twomore about 4-5 inches long and I lost count of the bream I caught. Thewind was prettystiff, but the little rod handled it as well as could be expected ofanything less thana long, fast graphite cannon. That's not what the rod was meant foranyway. It seemed tolike the Wulff line well enough, but I can't wait to see what it doesunder betterconditions. I'll bet I will like it even more. Bob, thanks again foryour hospitalityyesterday. I thoroughly enjoyed our visit and meeting Bill, Duane, Bob,and Andy. Thanks that Little RedRiver trip we talked about. I would enjoy fishing with you. One thing Iforgot to askyou; what is the walnut case finished with? I am thinking of doing awalnut fly box tomatch it and would like to use the same varnish or whatever that youused. Oh, and bythe way, did I mention I love the rod!!!!???? Stay in touch, Cordially,Jim --------------76D860BDF2F (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA135 Subject: Rain, rain, and more rain. Bob, Oklahoma is sure a soggy place. I thought a lot of Oakies went toCalifornia someyears ago because it was dusty up there...They should see it now!! When I got back to Broken Bow yesterday afternoon, the river was almostready to plow,so obviously I didn't fish the new stick and all I could do last night wassit in themotel room and ogle the rod! When I got up this morning it was stillraining, so Ipointed the iron pony toward Big D and got home about 11:00am. I couldn'twait to takethe rod up to show David and Cathie Coleman and they were impressed,although David hasthe old misconception of the fragility of cane and was almost afraid totouch it. I thentook it up to show Marcos Enriquez, who runs the fishing side of the DallasOrvis store,and I had to wipe his drool off of it. I very much enjoyed watching hisglasses fog upand his eyes cloud over. He was very envious as were the other guys whowork in thestore and your ability and artistry received a lot of compliments. I thenwent to alocal park lake near my house since it was windy, cloudy, and cold, butdry, here andI christened the fishing pole. The first fish the rod caught was a 6"largemouth blackbass on one of those little Orange Ashers I showed you. Folks around thispark have beenthrowing bass in there and they have spawned, apparently, because I wenton to catch twomore about 4-5 inches long and I lost count of the bream I caught. Thewind was prettystiff, but the little rod handled it as well as could be expected of anythingless thana long, fast graphite cannon. That's not what the rod was meant foranyway. It seemed tolike the Wulff line well enough, but I can't wait to see what it does underbetterconditions. I'll bet I will like it even more. Bob, thanks again for yourhospitalityyesterday. I thoroughly enjoyed our visit and meeting Bill, Duane, Bob, andAndy. Thanks that LittleRiver trip we talked about. I would enjoy fishing with you. One thing Iforgot to askyou; what is the walnut case finished with? I am thinking of doing awalnut fly box tomatch it and would like to use the same varnish or whatever that you used.Oh, and bythe way, did I mention I love the rod!!!!????Stay in touch, Cordially,Jim --------------76D860BDF2F-- from mrj@seanet.com Fri Sep 27 23:18:03 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA01754 for; Fri, 27 Sep 1996 23:18:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Winston rods You can't go wrong with the Stanly 9 1/2 in plane. I think the modelnumber isG-12-020.It costs about $35 bucks and has good weight which isbenificial as alighter plane cannot OmussleO through small hard spots as well. It reallyhelpsto have several planes but only the finish plane needs to be really reallygood.I have a cheaper plane (another Stanley) that I use for roughing in thesplinesthat I adjust with a light hammer tap to the blade to position it. That istheonly way to adjust the blade. It works fine. I am now up to 5 planes andthisyear I am going to try a large plane for at least the roughing in. Note: youdon't really need this many planes but I go to a lot of garage sales(G). In message writes:Jeff, I, too, have the bug, and found some really good information athttp://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html. Bruce has directions onhow tobuilda set of wood forms, and I'm going to give it a try. The Rodmakers have ahome page with links to a bunch of suppliers who handle the stuff weneed.It can be found at http://Home1.gte.net/jfoster/links.html. With thesetwolinks, I think I have about all I need to get started. I also bought thebook I have a question for anyone reading this. How critical is the size of theplane used for final planing on the strips? I have seen a number ofreferences to the Stanley 9 1/2 plane. Is it considered optimal? Please adviseas I'm about to go out and invest some $$$ in planes, stones, and otherparaphanalia. Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Sep 27 14:49:08 1996Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 14:52:42 -0500 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: jhward@montana.campus.mci.net (Jeffrey H. Ward) Subject: Winston rodsMime-Version: 1.0 X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 397 Dear Folks:I had the the bug to try to build a bamboo rod for a while. Pleasetell me where to get plans for forms and the other major tools and suppliesto get started. Also, I've been looking at some Winston made rods. Isquality like that hard to duplicate or can it be done only by a master rodbuilder like Glen Brackett? Take Care, Jeffjhward.montana@montana.campus.mci.net Martin Jensen from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sat Sep 28 11:42:23 1996 Subject: Re: Rejected Cane Sure, I've got some culms that are large. I was going to make drinkingcups (vessels) from them, but the customer backed out. Call me at (303)745-1353, and we'll talk. Frank in Colorado from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sat Sep 28 11:48:35 1996 Subject: Re: Winston rods Hi, Jeff. I'll send you the plans for the forms that I sell. Call me at(303) 745-1353, or FAX (303)751-8626. I took the basic dimensions from theGarrison Book, but I replaced the damn differential screws with dowel pinsand push-pull screws. Works better and can be machined more easily. Frankin Colorado from lostrivr@im4u.net Sun Sep 29 20:03:30 1996 Subject: Re: Rust stains? At 10:46 AM 9/27/96 -0400, you wrote:Anyone know how to remove old rust stains from bamboo? I've got a nice rod that was put away wet about 40 years ago and all theguides rusted. Almost new rod except for this, paper label on the cork still. I plan on rewrapping it but the stains will still show. A real bummer. Don Burns You *should* be able to remove the rust stains with a solution of Oxalicacid. It's not gonna hurt the cane (somebody warn me if I'm wrong here!). An alternative is to use an opaque wrap, like black and just put up with aDarth Vader looking rod. :') Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net Here is my two cents worth.When you see black stains on an old rod it can somethimes mean ddryrot. If that is the case the rod becomes something for the mantle and notthe stream. Before you spend a lot of time restoring the rod make sure theblank is sound. When the guides rust it often does damge to the cane.Sometimes you get lucky and sometimes you don't. A good wiggle will usuallytell you if it has any life left. If it doesn't break or become delaminatedthings are hopefull. Ron Barch from lostrivr@im4u.net Sun Sep 29 20:12:35 1996 Subject: Re: Info on the "net" At 09:01 AM 9/26/96 -0600, you wrote:Micheal & Jerry et al, I am confused about the legal ramifications of information provided to therodmakers bulletin board. I am aware that there have been items posted tothe archives where the author was not contacted prior to the inclusion ofthe article/item to the achives. from my prespective, I do not care one way or the other. However, it seemsto be prudent that items that are not posted to the bulletin board ( wherethe author should believe that this information is now public domain and canbe used by anyone) but are "lifted" from other sources, that at least theauthor is contacted and permission secured prior to archiving thearticle/item. At a minimum, common courtesy should dictate that the authorbe contacted. I realize that the internet is as close to anarchy as it gets in today'sworld what with the push to have information provided @ an ever increasingpace but there are still copyright laws that govern people's actions withregard to proprietory information. Is the Internet different? If so, whereis it written or at least understood by common convention how informationshould be handled on the net? Similarly, there have been times that I and others have written to thebulletin board and private email messages about rod building techniques orequipment. These messages are now whose property. The reason I ask has to dowith several items I would like to submit to the Planning Form that werepreviously mentioned on the "net". Does that now mean that I lose ownershipand have to contact the listmiester or _______ ? to get permission to printthe same article to what has to be a wider audience than Rodmakers. If suchis the case, it seems to be that inhibition of information flow on the netwould be the result. Nobody wants that - certainly not me!!! We all benefit from "info-speed".So what's the solution - just go ahead and submit the article to thePlanning Form and let Ron take the heat, if any? I can't imagine anyonecaring if the person who authored an article resubmitted it to a differentforum, but in today's world it seems like everyone has an opinion and somelike to sue. Help, Don Andersen Concerning Information submitted to the Planing Form Newsletter.It has always been my policy that info sent in to the newsletter holdsjoint copyright status......That is, both the author and The Planing Formhave use of the material. If things should ever reach a point where legalproblems arise I am going fishing and let the lawyers fight it out!?! Lifeis too short and rodmaking is too much fun to let things like that get inthe way. I believe that angling is one of the last places where gentlemen stillhave a code of ethics...although some do forget on occasion. Ron Barch from jfoster@gte.net Sun Sep 29 21:32:02 1996 Subject: Re: Info on the "net" RonGreat attitude..I think we can all abide in the same spirit.. Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sun Sep 29 21:34:08 1996 Subject: Re: sanding Mike Where did you find a 60 Deg. inward router bit? Jerry from olfart@atlanta.com Sun Sep 29 21:55:45 1996 Organization: Ol'Fart Trading Company, Inc Subject: Varnish removal Please forgive this amateur's question. While I've built, wrapped and repaired several graphite rods, I have no experience in refinishing cane. I just received an old Heddon Black Beauty that I need to rewrap (the old wrappings are brittle and breaking apart). I've been told that I should remove the old finish before I rewrap. Can one of you fellows help me out or point me in the right direction refinishing (type of varnish, etc.) Thanks,Dave Teffeteller-- Visit Dave Teffeteller's Fly Fishing Guides Home Pagehttp://www.olfart.com from Anachemrpo@aol.com Mon Sep 30 06:50:16 1996 Subject: Re: Varnish removal Look for the book by Michael Sinclair "Restoring Bamboo Rods" (or "Bamboo RodRestoration" cant't recall exact title). It is THE book your looking for. Usual disclaimer blah, blah, blah, He also can be reached by E-mail at Caneclinic if you are on AOL...but buyhis book before you start asking him question via bandwidth. I have found him really helpful in clarifying some decisions I've had to makeregarding a couple of rods I'm restoring, including a Heddeon Black Beauty 81/2 foot...similar to what you describe... Russ Lavigne from Anachemrpo@aol.com Mon Sep 30 06:51:19 1996 Subject: Re: Varnish removal Hey Dave,Are you in Atlanta?I'm going there in March 1997. Where to fish? Russ Lavigne from FFer4trout@aol.com Mon Sep 30 09:42:25 1996 Subject: Re: Varnish removal In a message dated 96-09-30 07:52:50 EDT, you write: Book is called "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" by Michael Sinclair and ISBN# is 1-882418-11-5. Cost about $25.00 (USA). Good information, IMHO. Buy it. Don Burns from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Sep 30 09:57:50 1996 Subject: Re: sanding Jerry seez... Where did you find a 60 Deg. inward router bit? I finally found it through Woodcraft Supply. We have a store here in STLbut they are also a big mailorder place (800-225-1153). Great catalog todrool over... Mike- from rfairfie@cisco.com Mon Sep 30 10:32:08 1996 Subject: Re: This is why we do it!!!! Bob, it sounds like you have arrived, and will have a happy repeat customer!Congratulations. I hope I have a similar experience in the future. My processis just beginning, as I will be splitting my first culm ever tonight. To say the least, I am excited! Thanks to all on this list for inspiration andinformation, as I venture into the world of cane. Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Sep 27 18:35:01 1996Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 20:29:41 -0500 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: caneman@clnk.com (Robert Nunley Jr.) Subject: This is why we do it!!!!MIME-Version: 1.0Content-Type> : > multipart/mixed> ; > boundary="------------76D860BDF2F"> X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.01 (Win95; U)X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 6170 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------76D860BDF2F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Fellow rodmakers:The following is an email I just received from a customer who drove up here from Dallas to pick up his 6' 2wt rod. Comments like his are what make rodmaking worth while. NOVICES... if you ever get a letter like this, then you have learned your craft well... Thanks to all of the guys I mentioned in the INFO thread for helping me get to a point in my rodmaking where I get letters like this... Bob Nunley Here it is: Bob, Oklahoma is sure a soggy place. I thought a lot of Oakies went to California someyears ago because it was dusty up there...They should see it now!! When I got back to Broken Bow yesterday afternoon, the river was almost ready to plow,so obviously I didn't fish the new stick and all I could do last night was sit in themotel room and ogle the rod! When I got up this morning it was still raining, so Ipointed the iron pony toward Big D and got home about 11:00am. I couldn't wait to takethe rod up to show David and Cathie Coleman (Westbank Anglers) and they were impressed, although David hasthe old misconception of the fragility of cane and was almost afraid to touch it. I thentook it up to show Marcos Enriquez, who runs the fishing side of the Dallas Orvis store,and I had to wipe his drool off of it. I very much enjoyed watching his glasses fog upand his eyes cloud over. He was very envious as were the other guys who work in thestore and your ability and artistry received a lot of compliments. I then went to alocal park lake near my house since it was windy, cloudy, and cold, but dry, here andI christened the fishing pole. The first fish the rod caught was a 6" largemouth blackbass on one of those little Orange Ashers I showed you. Folks around this park have beenthrowing bass in there and they have spawned, apparently, because I went on to catch twomore about 4-5 inches long and I lost count of the bream I caught. The wind was prettystiff, but the little rod handled it as well as could be expected of anything less thana long, fast graphite cannon. That's not what the rod was meant for anyway. It seemed tolike the Wulff line well enough, but I can't wait to see what it does under betterconditions. I'll bet I will like it even more. Bob, thanks again for your hospitalityyesterday. I thoroughly enjoyed our visit and meeting Bill, Duane, Bob, and Andy. Thanks that Little Red River trip we talked about. I would enjoy fishing with you. One thing I forgot to askyou; what is the walnut case finished with? I am thinking of doing a walnut fly box tomatch it and would like to use the same varnish or whatever that you used. Oh, and bythe way, did I mention I love the rod!!!!???? Stay in touch, Cordially,Jim --------------76D860BDF2FContent-Type: message/rfc822Content-Transfer- Encoding: 7bitContent-Disposition: inline Return-Path: (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA135 Received: by mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.74) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Sep 1996 18:08:22 -0500From: Jim Bryan X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win95; I)MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Rain, rain, and more rain. Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mozilla-Status: 0001 Bob, Oklahoma is sure a soggy place. I thought a lot of Oakies went to California some years ago because it was dusty up there...They should see it now!! When I got back to Broken Bow yesterday afternoon, the river was almost ready to plow, so obviously I didn't fish the new stick and all I could do last night was sit in the motel room and ogle the rod! When I got up this morning it was still raining, so I pointed the iron pony toward Big D and got home about 11:00am. I couldn't wait to take the rod up to show David and Cathie Coleman and they were impressed, although David has the old misconception of the fragility of cane and was almost afraid to touch it. I then took it up to show Marcos Enriquez, who runs the fishing side of the Dallas Orvis store, and I had to wipe his drool off of it. I very much enjoyed watching his glasses fog up and his eyes cloud over. He was very envious as were the other guys who work in the store and your ability and artistry received a lot of compliments. I then went to a local park lake near my house since it was windy, cloudy, and cold, but dry, here and I christened the fishing pole. The first fish the rod caught was a 6" largemouth black bass on one of those little Orange Ashers I showed you. Folks around this park have been throwing bass in there and they have spawned, apparently, because I went on to catch two more about 4-5 inches long and I lost count of the bream I caught. The wind was pretty stiff, but the little rod handled it as well as could be expected of anything less than a long, fast graphite cannon. That's not what the rod was meant for anyway. It seemed to like the Wulff line well enough, but I can't wait to see what it does under better conditions. I'll bet I will like it even more. Bob, thanks again for your hospitality yesterday. I thoroughly enjoyed our visit and meeting Bill, Duane, Bob, and Andy. Thanks River trip we talked about. I would enjoy fishing with you. One thing I forgot to ask you; what is the walnut case finished with? I am thinking of doing a walnut fly box to match it and would like to use the same varnish or whatever that you used. Oh, and by the way, did I mention I love the rod!!!!???? Stay in touch, Cordially, Jim --------------76D860BDF2F-- from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Sep 30 11:48:06 1996 Subject: Updates in the mail Having just returned from 2 weeks in Grayrock - fairly unattached fromthe net I just sent out those requests for the update version of hexrod -Hex96a. There is still one menu item that isn't complete - the deflectionportion which I'm checking currently.If I have missed someone in all the requests please let me know and I'lldo a follow up. Wayne from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Mon Sep 30 12:44:37 1996 Subject: Re: Updates in the mail WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Having just returned from 2 weeks in Grayrock - fairly unattached fromthe net I just sent out those requests for the update version of hexrod -Hex96a. There is still one menu item that isn't complete - the deflectionportion which I'm checking currently.If I have missed someone in all the requests please let me know and I'lldo a follow up. Wayne, unless I was too quick with the Delete key, You missed me. Thanks, Mike -- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625 from caneman@clnk.com Mon Sep 30 13:50:08 1996 (Netscape Mail Server v1.1) with SMTP id AAA190 Organization: Spring Valley Subject: Southern boys get together??? All of you within a reasonable drive of Oklahoma. There is a creek in Northwest Arkansas that is spring fed and holding wild trout. It is strictly a catch and release creek, and has "zero" public access.I have found a landowner that has an old farmhouse (good condition) that he would consider renting to us for a weekend very reasonably. from his land, there is access to about 2 miles of this stream and in this area, many 18 to 22 inch wild trout can be landed.The only problem is, the place will only comfortably sleep about 8 people.I brought up the idea of getting a group of bamboo rodmakers to come to the house for a weekend for a "Cane Only" fishing trip. Not only would that give us a chance to meet each other, but would give us a chance to see each others work and discuss how well we think of ourselves over a beer or two. Not only that, we can bend some bamboo on some of the finest wild fish in the South. been promised great coverage for this, if we can work something out.I'm not sure yet what the cost would be, but anyone who is intersted, email me directly at caneman@clnk.com and I will start putting a list together. Thanks, Bob Nunley from lostrivr@im4u.net Mon Sep 30 17:43:42 1996 Subject: Re: Info on the "net" At 09:34 PM 9/29/96 -0600, you wrote:RonGreat attitude..I think we can all abide in the same spirit.. Jerry Jerry,Nice to know there are kindred spirits around. Thanks for the kindcomment.Ron...Who caught no fish in Grayling last weekend!!!> from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Sep 30 23:34:06 1996 Subject: Historic information Having just returned from two weeks in Grayrock I thought that I shouldadd just a bit of history to the discussion on material submitted todifferent medias. The subject isn't new to the list and if we look back thediscussion was that there should be some type of notice with postings onwheather or not it was intended to be made public or held private. Because ofmy involvment I know that early on there were several articles and drawingssubmitted to The Planing Form that the originator(Don Anderson - JohnBrockstrom - and others) included a note stating that the submitted materialwas to be used on a single time only basis which would be similar as aposting to the list. Beyond that single use permission of the originatorwould be needed again at each use. The same I would think would hold true forthe posting here. They are held in archive and available to view but iffurther use were intended it should involve the approval of the originator ateach use.I would think that The Planing Form and its subscribers could benefit from some of the information on the list and that it would be fairly easycapturing it for publication - saving typing time. The thought might be forthose wanting to - simply send Ron a letter stating that he can use furtherposts of the originator and any conditions that they would attach. Ron couldthen keep these letters on file for easy reference. Wayne Ps - For those that have seen Grayrock during the summer(ala TTBBBQ) - itbecomes an entirely different area after Labor Day. To further add to theatmosphere Luis Marden was there with his great tales and experiences ofyears with the Geographic and his great love for bamboo and the fly rods itmakes.