from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Dec 1 16:34:15 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21508 for; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 16:34:13 -0600 1996 17:34:12 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Dial Indicators Mike Sorry I didn't answer earlier - been away for holiday. The L S Starrett Company phone numbers are1-(800) 254-86901-(508) 249-3551 Part number is PT06632/6 Contact Point. Current price is $3.05 - suggest you order a coupleand shipping will be approx $2.50 Chris from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Dec 1 17:30:52 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23060 for ;Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:30:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Plaintive cry for Help Whalostrivr@im4u.net wrote: At 09:02 PM 11/25/96 -0700, you wrote:To all, Got a Hardy into the shop yesterday from a lady whose husbanddestroyed thelast 8" of her rod. Need's tip repair. The question is: does anyone have ataper for aHardy Palkona #6 7 1/2' rod tip section. Not enough left to take anymorethan a guess @ the taper. Regards, Don Andersen Hi Don,I am curious. Did you have any luck with the Hardy e-mail addresssomeone sent you over the Rodmaker List?Ron Barchwhat Hardy e- mail address??John from lostrivr@im4u.net Sun Dec 1 17:52:55 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23485 for; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:52:52 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA27518 for; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:43:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Plaintive cry for Help At 06:23 PM 12/1/96 -0500, you wrote:Whalostrivr@im4u.net wrote: At 09:02 PM 11/25/96 -0700, you wrote:To all, Got a Hardy into the shop yesterday from a lady whose husbanddestroyed thelast 8" of her rod. Need's tip repair. The question is: does anyone have ataper for aHardy Palkona #6 7 1/2' rod tip section. Not enough left to take anymorethan a guess @ the taper. Regards, Don Andersen Hi Don,I am curious. Did you have any luck with the Hardy e-mail addresssomeone sent you over the Rodmaker List?Ron Barchwhat Hardy e- mail address??John Hi John,I am embarassed. Just changed over to a new internet server and I lostsome stuff in the process. Any way Don Andersen had an e-mail addressforthe folks at Hardy in England and it seems that they are willing to answerquestions and help with taper problems. If I retrieve the lost stuff frommy computer....ha ha ha fat chance!!! I will forward it to you.My daughter the freshman er freshwoman at Mich State U., no law suits hair is falling out and your computer is too slow!?! Its too cold to gofishing so I had to just grin and bare it.Keep In TouchRon B. from lostrivr@im4u.net Sun Dec 1 17:56:45 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA23513 for; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 17:56:40 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA27574 for; Sun, 1 Dec 1996 19:47:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Plaintive cry for Help At 06:23 PM 12/1/96 -0500, you wrote:Whalostrivr@im4u.net wrote: At 09:02 PM 11/25/96 -0700, you wrote:To all, Got a Hardy into the shop yesterday from a lady whose husbanddestroyed thelast 8" of her rod. Need's tip repair. The question is: does anyone have ataper for aHardy Palkona #6 7 1/2' rod tip section. Not enough left to take anymorethan a guess @ the taper. Regards, Don Andersen Hi Don,I am curious. Did you have any luck with the Hardy e-mail addresssomeone sent you over the Rodmaker List?Ron Barchwhat Hardy e- mail address??John John, Me again. Quick question. Did you get the e-mail message aboutJohnBradford's cork? Like I said with a new server I am not sure if I am online like before. Ronps Did you miss your students over the long weekend??????> from wang@cel.cummins.com Mon Dec 2 06:11:27 1996 ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 06:11:26 -0600 07:10:59 -0500 smap (3.2) (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) (5.x/SMI-SVR4) SVR4) Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Oven Shells for Grayrock 97 On Tue, 26 Nov 1996 09:28:42 -0500, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Another Idea for the 'Things To Do While In Grayrock' file might includea work bee constructing oven shells. Several folks have complained thatfinding someone to fabricate the duct work for an oven is impossible andtheshipping cost out of Grand Rapids is as expensive as the duct work itself.Ergo - For anyone interested it could be another Friday night projectotherthan building binders and just hanging around The Clubhouse samplinghomebrew. Gordy at Monarch Metal slaps out the shell parts for me at $30 andthere is about an hour into putting them all together.As a follow up to the binder idea - So far I have heard from 5individuals. Another thought - because most of the 'parts' will beprefabedthe question of a 'Binder in a Box' came up for those not attending. Theboxwould contain the 'parts' and perhaps a video showing how the finalassemblygoes. Besides the $25 or so in parts cost there would be another $10 or soUPS. ??????????? Wayne Wayne:This is an excellent idea. Please count me in. Thanks!Simon from wang@cel.cummins.com Mon Dec 2 08:34:36 1996 ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 08:34:34 -0600 09:34:07 -0500 smap (3.2) (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) (5.x/SMI-SVR4) SVR4) Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated To all:I came across a rod the past weekend. It was a 10', three sections rod, possibly built in the 20s or 30s, and is in excellent shape. The word "Pioneer" was signed on the butt section in front of the cork grip. Does anybody familiar with this kind of rod? Who built it? What year? Its value? ... etcAny information is appreciated. Thanks!Simon from Anachemrpo@aol.com Mon Dec 2 09:16:40 1996 ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:16:38 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:16:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Small piece(s) of bamboo requested Ron,Thanks in advance. Got a favorite pattern I could tie a few of for you, byway of return? Russ Lavigne, from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Mon Dec 2 09:56:29 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA24709 for; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 09:56:26 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Help for a newbie I am in the process of gathering up tools and materials for my firstventure into bamboo rodmaking. I'm using the Cattanach and Garrisonbooks, and also Bruce Conner's web page as my primary sources ofinformation (not to mention lots of help from you guys on this list).I have the following questions for anyone willing to help me out: 1. I'm planning to build the wooden planing forms per BruceConner's web page. I haven't been able to locate a source lists shoulder bolts, but not in the size mentioned in Bruce'swriteup. Can anyone point me to a source? 2. I'd like to build a heat treating oven following Wayne Cattanach'sdesign? This oven calls for a mica strip heater. I don't have aclue as to where to find one of those. 3. In addition to building flyrods, I would also like to build abaitcasting rod eventually. Can anyone point me to any sourcesof information on tapers, components, etc? Thanks,Bob MatarazzoMelville, NY from dmichels@usitc.gov Mon Dec 2 10:22:58 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA26206 for; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 10:22:19 -0600 Subject: re: Help for a newbie The shoulder bolts are also called axle bolts. You can generally find the ones you need at a local home supply or 'do it yourself' store. They usually have a special section with the little yellow trays and all different sizes. Personally, I am making planing forms but have decided that it isn't really necessary to use shoulder bolts. from a design standpoint, the only thing that the bolt is supposed to do is hold the forms together. The allen setscrews are used to push the forms apart, and from a combination of the two actions, you secure the form at the desired setting so that it will not change. I will probably use a standard _rҙ; " RQHF(z4!PP40 :SummaryInformation(vCurrent UserI@ :f?@6vvv&@:zz`z&/" "BXpp!Pp,&.<@//B/BP/B&0"00/0U0U0U0U&1"1&1H1`1`1`1`&1n"11111U2 02*z3Zv3`v4J$44"8^ 9 9"9. 949@ 9O9[ 9b*9nx92::BUN "^p 7$ Ăp^p IM-^ V,/7ddLorem Ipsum ,/7ddL^s V UuKdDelor sit amet consectetuer adipiscing elit sed diam Nonummy nibh euismod Tincidunt ut Laoreet dolore Magna aliquam Exerci tation ullamcorper suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea com 6 E 6UuKdD_dd UFAdUFAdD_ddEUuKdr Ăp_ 0H B^p`L s^ dd rO] P F?K5L'T,]'d,s$! 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E/_oϷ''^' #A6,6//_8@M]jذO"IEU"~.r=EU>brbOHDN\agx~o|jeL={/o'YJD9I(OI+>2I>`R'L D70*#8yAr-vs s ssnjb^YX^TUPULJOJEJJ,OTZ`dfRELHHJFOCSAVD\D_CcAjJAI8D0:0603+ oo "/Y`rO"U&""86 "*!.(3+6-+/(3+7+3 0178 3 - ,& $WoOǓaaaaaAr_/~>}{yEwItOu^wwtsmid!a#]#Z)W,T.T0N:T:V8Y:ZAZEWITLQLNOKOGRETEYEcAk;r9z4,#|rg a%T(L+D-:004'9 >BEKQWI`gYk_tz铀#I+ !$)+ (A$_$"#'"Y$>!EAI IE,I:I7O50O/I-I*I(A(,*,- 04400Y046'8';`=A>AA:>[33RR]hh\RR^""YYYYYYW\GGGvvv1117U///hhhRRRkkk)A)A)AJ[m[m[mKAAA% - ~|ddd7pXYhhhYDaG[U3I(^RRRddd7sXYhhhY~~~///glglglRRRPt/0OcObOT0M,,,,,ddddddddddL UuKdD_ddUFAdD_ddDddL ddddddddddLTddTddTddTddTddAdddddddddd 00 Helvetica4hTimes6Monotype Sorts8Geneva:0Pu 579;HPB from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Dec 2 22:52:00 1996 ; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 22:51:59 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 2 Dec 1996 23:51:54 -0500 Subject: Speaking of Cork Minnesota has some 1/4" thick cork that is really some good stuff ( orbetterstated - the batch that I got was good) - price wise it works out to aboutthe same as if you were using the 1/2" thick rings - but it adds a differentlook to the rod and it appears to be better quality. Been using this forabout a year now. Wayne from wang@cel.cummins.com Tue Dec 3 09:13:59 1996 ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 09:13:58 -0600 10:13:30 -0500 smap (3.2) (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) (5.x/SMI-SVR4) SVR4) Priority: Normal Subject: Re: 'Binder In A Box' info On Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:49:11 -0500, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The 'Binder In A Box' is being tested at this very moment by a coupleof fellows for the city of Atlanta. At present I have plates and armsroughcut for 15 units. I was hoping some one would come out with acommerical kit.Around Christmas I will be making some Baltic Birch pulleys - Al RohenfromAER is providing tensioners and the bolts and such are of the shelf. I wasgoing to wait until spring to finalize design for those that are coming toGrayrock 97 - But for those not able to attend or wanting to get startedearly I suppose that they could be ready in a week or so. When I made myjourney to Grand Rapids Central Iron & Steel they didn't have any moreflatstock there and I hope to fiond some more - Current used price is $1.00/pound and new is $4 - $5/ pound which would make a dramatic differencein thekit prices.I have heard from 7 who have asked to be on the list but I don't knowwhat schedule all want. Let me know. Wayne Wayne:If the kit is ready I wouldn't mind get it earlier since I don't have one yet.Thanks!!Simon from Jerry.Snider@UC.Edu Tue Dec 3 10:51:41 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA28104 for; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 10:51:39 -0600 #15949) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Re: 'Binder In A Box' info Please count me in for the "Binder in a Box" if at all possible. J. Snider On Tue, 3 Dec 1996, Simon Tien Chieh Wang wrote: On Mon, 2 Dec 1996 18:49:11 -0500, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The 'Binder In A Box' is being tested at this very moment by a coupleof fellows for the city of Atlanta. At present I have plates and armsroughcut for 15 units. I was hoping some one would come out with acommerical kit.Around Christmas I will be making some Baltic Birch pulleys - Al RohenfromAER is providing tensioners and the bolts and such are of the shelf. Iwasgoing to wait until spring to finalize design for those that are comingtoGrayrock 97 - But for those not able to attend or wanting to get startedearly I suppose that they could be ready in a week or so. When I made myjourney to Grand Rapids Central Iron & Steel they didn't have any moreflatstock there and I hope to fiond some more - Current used price is $1.00/pound and new is $4 - $5/ pound which would make a dramaticdifference in thekit prices.I have heard from 7 who have asked to be on the list but I don't knowwhat schedule all want. Let me know. Wayne Wayne:If the kit is ready I wouldn't mind get it earlier since I don't have oneyet.Thanks!!Simon from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 3 16:13:24 1996 ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 14:13:20 -0800 Subject: Tuxedo cane Has anyone been having trouble lately getting through to Tuxedo Cane? I either get an answering maching, from which the call is never returned, or no answer at all. Mike-- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly- fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from sullivjp@musc.edu Tue Dec 3 16:41:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20226 for; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:41:11 -0600 revere.musc.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id RAA21207 for Subject: Re: Oven Shell Kit Info WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: shell kit - they are available anytime(I have been providing them foryears). Gordy at Monarch Metal Manufacturing (616 - 241 - 0412) is mysource He charges me $40.00 per shell kit. Here is a list of what you get: 1) 4" x 8" - 59" open duct1) 6" x 10" - 60" open duct1) 4" x 8" end cap2) 6" x 10" end caps (1 end cap is cut w/ 4" x 8" opening 1" fold)2) 5' 'S') scrap duct board for insulation (as needed)Then I throw in 4' of high temperature wire To assemble the 'kit' you need a drill w 1/8" bit and some 1/8" x 1/4"pop rivets. If you need the other elements they cost as follows 1) 4" x 4" - 2 1/8" deep box ($2.00)1) Mica Strip heater ( Grand Technologies current price - $60?)1) 12" - 56" 'rat screen ($5.00)1) Robert Shaw thermostat 5320 - 175 ($40.00) Shipping is what UPS Charges me. I would love to make an assembled unit available (I used to do it )butI just don't have the time to do that at present. Wayne,I am interested in this kit, but I must wait for now. The startup costis getting too expensive considering that my wife's interest level inthis hobby is so low. I would sure love to see the plans on this one sothat I can decide if its construction is something that I can do and ifI may be able to find some of the parts right here in my home town. Ihave contacts here that might be able to find me some of the pieces andsave me some $$ if I just knew what I was looking for. thanks. John Sullivansullivjp@musc.edu from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 3 16:50:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA20831 for; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 16:50:06 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA11666 for; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 17:48:46 -0500 Subject: Flame tempering bamboo Hiya, I'm sure that I recall reading rather recently that some research hadbeen done on the best way to heat treat cane for greatest effect forbuilding fly rods and that the evidence suggested that flame temperingalone produced the best results. (Don't know who got to define "best")Now, I was at Indiana University for six years in the seventies and havedoubtlessly destroyed a significant portion of my brain, but can anyoneoffer any substantiation or a source to go to for further insights? Iknow phy used natural gas flame to temper his rods, and I love the dark,wild-flower honey color it gave them. I also like to burn things andplay with fire and was hoping that I could put the two together. . . . Thanks for any help. Brian Creek > from mrj@seanet.com Tue Dec 3 19:04:25 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA26603 for; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 19:04:23 -0600 Subject: Re: Flame tempering bamboo Brian,I can't tell you where to go for more information other than I have heardthata back issue of The Planing Form having the article describing the test youare probably talking about. Maybe you could ask Ron Barch about the issue? Ibelievehe is in this rodmakers group. I flame treat my bamboo and have used both propane and oxe-cetelene at different times both with equal success. I used propane at first and if Icould find a tip big enough (or make one which I may end up doing) I would stilluse it.At work we have a oxe- cetenene torch set up and I put on a large tip(called a "rosebud") and use that. It puts out a lot more heat and you have to be careful to keep the bamboo moving so as not to burn it, but if you do, the Fworldb.ppt - World SLD3PPT3SLD3PPT3lwHA`֟֟U @ @[x x[ [xHiya, I'm sure that I recall reading rather recently that some research hadbeen done on the best way to heat treat cane for greatest effect forbuilding fly rods and that the evidence suggested that flame temperingalone produced the best results. (Don't know who got to define "best")Now, I was at Indiana University for six years in the seventies and havedoubtlessly destroyed a significant portion of my brain, but can anyoneoffer any substantiation or a source to go to for further insights? Iknow phy used natural gas flame to temper his rods, and I love the dark,wild-flower honey color it gave them. I also like to burn things andplay with fire and was hoping that I could put the two together. . . . Thanks for any help. Brian Creek > from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 3 20:49:18 1996 ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 20:49:17 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:49:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Flame tempering bamboo To all,I don't know if the following has any validity or not -it works for me:I split and straigten each strip and then flame each strip with the usualfine point of a propane torch. Sometimes I flame both inside and out, othertimes flame just the outside and heat treat in a Wayne Catt. oven with athermometer inserted midway in the oven to verify the thermostatsetting- 375o. f. for 15 min. I have not found any appreciable difference between the 2methods. I'm just adding my bit to the inherent confusion of this list-butit's fun , ain't it?Hank Woolman. from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 3 21:07:43 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01089 for; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:07:42 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA14973 for; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:06:17 -0500 Subject: More on flame I just found the citation I was sure I'd never find, (some brain cellsmust just be wounded.) It was in The Classic Angler's Cracker BarrelCorner for November - December last year. ". . . flame tempering bamboo that is possibly the most distinguishingfeature of Young rods, not just from a cosmetic perspective but also from the resilience the flame tempering imparts to the cane: Young rodsare known for their responsive power and light weight. " from Don's comments, maybe it's the pre-embargo cane and Mr. Young'scraftsmanship that are responsible for his rod's "power and lightweight.", more than the tempering?? Brian > from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 3 21:14:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01325 for; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:14:53 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA15075 for; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:13:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Flame tempering bamboo Don Andersen wrote: Brian, I have done extensive testing of what different types of tempering doestocane and the original tests were published in the Planning form. In short - I could not find any method that was "best by test" if the testsI used were valid. The tests in some degree were replicated Tom Folkjustrecently with similar results.The testing consisted of a "resistance to bending" and "return tostraigtness after stress applied".Frankly, no tempering at all yielded about the same results as tempering.Inother words, you can do as you please. As far as flaming - cosmetic flaming where the cane passes quicklythough aheat source [usually a open flame] does not temper the cane - just colorsit. Looks lovely. John Zimny has it perfected. Contact John - he's a listmember for full instructions. Open flame can temper the cane and a method I used was to suspend thecanebetween two wires so all sides were exposed. Using a torch [ aBenzomaticwith a spreader worked just fine], play the flame onto the cane until youget the desired color effect. Make sure you roll the cane to get all sidesdone. Start @ one end and work the area between the nodes one at a time.Proceed up the cane till you get to the end. You will notice the moisturestart to bubble from the cane - stinks too. Wife may not be pleased. Thecane pole will shrink as you go along opening the previously installedsplit.This is about the least costly of all methods of cane tempering andlikelythe most fool proof as the cane is always visible. And please, if you get any information about any method that is "best bytest", give me a shout. I am really interested. Regards, DonAt 17:53 03/12/96 -0500, you wrote:Hiya, I'm sure that I recall reading rather recently that some research hadbeen done on the best way to heat treat cane for greatest effect forbuilding fly rods and that the evidence suggested that flame temperingalone produced the best results. (Don't know who got to define "best")Now, I was at Indiana University for six years in the seventies and havedoubtlessly destroyed a significant portion of my brain, but can anyoneoffer any substantiation or a source to go to for further insights? Iknow phy used natural gas flame to temper his rods, and I love the dark,wild-flower honey color it gave them. I also like to burn things andplay with fire and was hoping that I could put the two together. . . . Thanks for any help. Brian Creek > Don, In your research did you perform stress tests on splits, planed strips,glued- up blanks or what. (Maybe I should just buy the back issue, eh?)And did you temper to any consistent moisture content, or color, or didyou try a variety of flame tempering time values? Boy, its so liberating admitting that you are totally cluless!! Brian > from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Dec 3 21:18:30 1996 ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 21:18:29 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:18:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Flame tempering bamboo Brian -Perhaps 'best' is a personal thing - beside flaming I feel thatadditional heat treating is required to make maximum use of the pwoerfibers.But a more key issue is setting up an individual regiment - so that theresults (completed rods) can be repeated. Heat treating and flaming is justone of many areas that can effect the overall out come of a rod - each areaof the process can add error so the key is to have a tight bound to reducethe variation of each step.You will have lots of questions and may come up with differentanswers -that's one of the highlights of the get togethers the conversation sometechnical some personal. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Dec 3 22:11:43 1996 ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 22:11:41 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:11:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Flame tempering bamboo Hank -I do hope that you're not planning another snow storm like last year Just to bring you up to date with some of next summer's plans for herein Michigan - Offically Grayrock 97 is June 20 - 21. BUT - severalseeminglyhad so much fun last year that they want to do an entire week of it - thefishing and hanging out. The kids and I now plan on being at the 'Clubhouse'the thursday night before Fathers Day and staying there for the duration.Tenitive the group (and I would quess there will be 10 - 15 anyway) isgoingto do some excursion of the different river systems around the area.Realizethe number of streams that are all within an hours drive - AuSable -Manistee- Jordan - Pigeon - Boardman - Little Sturgeon - Boyne. And there waseventalk of driving into the UP to do the Two Hearted by Pine StumpJunction(it'son the map).Hopefully you and Marcia had a good time at last years event and youhave a personal invite to do it again - Come early if you can - We'll takefurther at DC Wayne from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Dec 3 23:02:17 1996 ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:02:15 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 00:02:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated In a message dated 96-11-26 08:43:23 EST, you write: You should cut a groove in the bottom of your plane, so you donttake any chunks out of your form. Hello MauroTo what width/depth did you cut groove in your plane? What was theorigin ofthe taper for the nodeless rod you had at Grayling? Appreciate your replyinadvance.Regards,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Dec 3 23:02:17 1996 ; Tue, 3 Dec 1996 23:02:16 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 00:02:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Fishing books In a message dated 96-11-30 18:31:04 EST, you write: Anyway, I'll be glad to get the books.....thanks a lot. Pete Pete - would like to get a peek at the book on bait casting. Either buyoutright, swap something or trade books for awhile. Please let me knowandthanks.Best Regards,Richard Tyree from lostrivr@im4u.net Wed Dec 4 15:04:11 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00442 for; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:03:59 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA02333 for; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:54:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated At 12:02 AM 12/4/96 -0500, you wrote:In a message dated 96-11-26 08:43:23 EST, you write: You should cut a groove in the bottom of your plane, so you donttake any chunks out of your form. Hello MauroTo what width/depth did you cut groove in your plane? What was theorigin ofthe taper for the nodeless rod you had at Grayling? Appreciate your replyinadvance.Regards,RTyree Hi Richard,I have two planes with grooves cut in the sole. If you want to try oneout before cutting into one of your planes let me know and I loan you onetomess around with.Ron BArch from lostrivr@im4u.net Wed Dec 4 15:08:45 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00817 for; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 15:08:39 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA02402 for; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:59:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Plaintive cry for Help At 11:15 PM 12/2/96 -0500, you wrote:Hi Ron! No!!! I surely did not miss my students. You should see the one generalmusic ( aka dumping ground) that I have. Kid threatened to bring his gun and shoot me. Told himhe'd better make it good the first time or he better be watching his back. Yeah, I heard about the cork only I'm in posession of around 2000 of ChrisKashih's best. The thing is, I have to throw half of it away. Seems like John's deal is asgood as buying a thou at a time. Only, you don't have to put out the money.I'm doing two shows on the second and fourth weekends in January. Ifyou'dlike to send some rods, I'd be happy to put them on the rack.John John,I have 5 rods in the works just now, If Iget something finished I letyou know. Thanks for the offer. I am doin shows in Feb and end ofMarch(Southfield Show) same offer extends to you. How is George doing. Ron> from maiello@yorku.ca Wed Dec 4 16:11:26 1996 ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:11:23 -0600 (8.8.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA13601 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated I never did put a groove in the sole of my plane.This was a case of do as I say not as I do.I tried a piece of sandpaper on glass with a "fence" on one side, but itwas taking too long, so I'm just real carefull when I get close to the topof the form. The taper is Wayne's 2 pc 7' 3/4 wt. from the book. I used a truncated ferrule. Let me know if I can help more.Mauro. On Wed, 4 Dec 1996 Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 96-11-26 08:43:23 EST, you write: You should cut a groove in the bottom of your plane, so you donttake any chunks out of your form. Hello MauroTo what width/depth did you cut groove in your plane? What was theorigin ofthe taper for the nodeless rod you had at Grayling? Appreciate yourreply inadvance.Regards,RTyree from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 4 16:45:34 1996 ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 16:45:29 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 17:45:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Flame tempering bamboo Wayne,We look forward to seeing you at the Md. show.Hank and Marcia. from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Dec 4 18:08:05 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA12001 for ;Wed, 4 Dec 1996 18:08:04 - 0600 TAA19302 for ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 19:07:53 - Subject: Hexrod To Jerry Foster, Hi Jerry,Can you help me find and download Wayne's latest Hexrod Program forTomSmithwick? I deal mainly in fivesiders but Tom wants the latest hex andhisMac doesn't seem to hack it. I can bring up your Archives file but can'tfind Hexrod. Thanks from us both. Bill Fink from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Dec 4 23:36:08 1996 ; Wed, 4 Dec 1996 23:36:07 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 00:36:06 -0500 Subject: Translation Question ????? I have been asked about possibly doing a Japanese version of the book -I have heard of computer programs that translate and am wondering if anyofthe list members have any knowledge of such programs and any hands onuse?????? Wayne from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Dec 5 06:05:40 1996 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 06:05:39 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:05:38 -0500 Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated In a message dated 96-12-04 17:17:35 EST, you write: The taper is Wayne's 2 pc 7' 3/4 wt. from the book. Thanks Mauro.RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Dec 5 06:05:57 1996 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 06:05:55 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:05:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated In a message dated 96-12-04 16:19:29 EST, you write: I have two planes with grooves cut in the sole. If you want to try oneout before cutting into one of your planes let me know and I loan you onetomess around with.Ron BArch Hi Ron:Thanks for the offer, but sounds like a lot of trouble for you and I have anextra plane that I plan to groove. Just need to settle on the specs, andhave heard that anywhere from .0015" to .014" depth is recommended. Whatdepth are yours cut to and what are your comments about them as well asgroovy planes in gereral? Again, thanks for the offer-very generous ofyou. Anyone else have comments, opinions and/or recommendations on thesubject?Would like to hear them. Best Regards,Richard from Anachemrpo@aol.com Thu Dec 5 06:58:17 1996 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 06:58:16 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:58:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Small piece(s) of bamboo requested Thank you so much for you unabashed generosity.Got your package yesterday, what a treat! Who would imagine that a grownman(myself) would take such amusement form getting wood shavings andsticks inthe mail? I am particularly grateful for the little stub of bound& turned assembledrodpiece and the cross section of culm. I'll make a bodkin from the rod pieceand the piece of culm is on my office desk for the time being. The people who populate flyfishing listservers never fail to amaze mewiththeir willingness to help. I'm popping a few Adams, Ausable Wulffs (the Ausable and the fliesoriginator, Fran Betters is about forty minute form my office), Cahills andIbelieve a March Brown of two in the mail. Thank you again so much for helping me indulge in my favorite pasttime"flyfishinstuff" Russ LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Thu Dec 5 08:23:32 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA06642 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 08:23:30 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated ----- Begin Included Message ----- from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Dec 5 07:21:36 1996 Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated Content-Length: 769 In a message dated 96-12-04 16:19:29 EST, you write: I have two planes with grooves cut in the sole. If you want to try oneout before cutting into one of your planes let me know and I loan you onetomess around with.Ron BArch Hi Ron:Thanks for the offer, but sounds like a lot of trouble for you and I have anextra plane that I plan to groove. Just need to settle on the specs, andhave heard that anywhere from .0015" to .014" depth is recommended. Whatdepth are yours cut to and what are your comments about them as well asgroovy planes in gereral? Again, thanks for the offer-very generous ofyou. Anyone else have comments, opinions and/or recommendations on thesubject?Would like to hear them. Best Regards,Richard ----- End Included Message ----- Instead of "grooving" my plane, I plan to add strips of shim stock to thesole,as suggested in Bruce Conner's web page. Anybody have any opinions onthis? Bob Matarazzo from Anachemrpo@aol.com Thu Dec 5 09:23:29 1996 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:23:27 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:23:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Small piece(s) of bamboo requested The post regarding receipt of pieces was meant to be posted to Ron Barch.Iguess no harm done. Now everyone who didn't already know now know thathe's agenerous and helpful guy...and that I really appreciate his response to myrequest... Sorry for the bandwith... Russ-faux pas-LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com from plipton@sunvalley.net Thu Dec 5 09:32:00 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA10890 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:31:58 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA129 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated Hi Ron:Thanks for the offer, but sounds like a lot of trouble for you and I haveanextra plane that I plan to groove. Just need to settle on the specs, andhave heard that anywhere from .0015" to .014" depth is recommended. Whatdepth are yours cut to and what are your comments about them as wellasgroovy planes in gereral? Again, thanks for the offer-very generous ofyou. Anyone else have comments, opinions and/or recommendations on thesubject?Would like to hear them. Best Regards,Richard Richard: Here is one method I read about. You use a piece of plate glass becauseit is nearly a true flat surface. Cut a strip of wet/dry sandpaper(aluminum oxide) to fit your plane. You want to leave a 1/4" edge onboth sides of your plane. If your plane is 2 1/2" wide then the paperwould be 2" wide. Glue the strip to the glass plate. There are sprayglues made for this. If you wet the sandpaper it may even stick in place from the water. You want to be careful to apply an even coat so thepaper thickness remains the same. Now the paper is on the glass plateand you need a guide to keep the plane exactly over the same spot on thewet/dry paper. I think of it as being like a rip fence on a table saw.Clamp a piece of wood across the glass plate, parallel to the abrasivestrip. Retract the blade so it does not get ground but leave it clampedin your plane. If you trued your plane's base you know the reasons whyyou need to keep the blade in your plane. Run the plane next to thefence and along the abrasive strip. You can start with a pretty coarsegrit like 80 and progress to finer grades like 400 or 600. The thicknessof the paper is enough depth. Personally, I think it is easier to super glue shim stock to the edge ofyour plane. The more experienced builders that I have met do not seem toknick the form very often. Good luck.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton,PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from plipton@sunvalley.net Thu Dec 5 09:43:25 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA11557 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:43:23 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA150 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Translation Question ????? WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I have been asked about possibly doing a Japanese version of the book-I have heard of computer programs that translate and am wondering ifany ofthe list members have any knowledge of such programs and any hands onuse?????? Wayne Wayne: I have friends that have tried using these programs for translationsinto French, Spanish and German. They were not happy with the results.The translations were literal and read like some of the tool manuals youget with imported equipment. Colloquial expressions come out mangled inprogramed translations. The bigger problem with foreign alphabets isprinter drivers for output. If any language has solved the problems, itought to be Japanese. But it may be quicker to find a student who willtranslate at reasonable price. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton,Sun Valley RodsPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726- 9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from LANE@dsa.unt.edu Thu Dec 5 09:49:53 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA12113 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:49:51 -0600 mercury.acs.unt.edu (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA23932 for Thu, 5 Dec 96 9:49:49 -600 600 Subject: Re: Fly Rod & Reel articlePriority: normal Hi gang, Just a note to see if others read the article on Bamboo rod-making in this months Fly Rod and Reel magazine, I think by Ed Engle.Basically, he spoke about the nature of building a rod by hand, and his process of indecision in ordering the rod, built by Mike Clark out of Lyons. The article is complemetary to bamboo, not to technical, but spoke about the aura- the magic of bamboo- and would be nothing new to bamboo afficianados' but might get some of the hi-tech"plastic" rod users to be interested. Uhmm, That bamboo might just get harder to get!Tim from hadn@chevron.com Thu Dec 5 09:51:59 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA12255 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:51:56 -0600 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:51:43 -0800 Thu, 5 Dec 1996 07:51:43 -0800 Subject: RE: Help for the uninitiated 4.0.993.5Encoding: 20 TEXT You want to leave a 1/4" edge onboth sides of your plane. If your plane is 2 1/2" wide then the paperwould be 2" wide. Almost all of this is great advice - except this part. Measure the widthof yourplaning form and cut a groove half to two thirds that width. It would doyouno good to cut a groove 2" wide if your planing form is 2" wide. Themainreason for cutting the groove is to keep your blade from touching theform,and even if the groove is a quarter inch less than the width of yourform, thecontrol required to keep an eighth of an inch on both sides as you planewould be very difficult. Darryl Hayashida from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Dec 5 10:28:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA14430 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:28:51 -0600 KAA32419 for ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 10:28:50 - Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated I put a groove in one plane sole with the sandpaper on glass method(depth = ~0.004"), but I wanted a deeper groove on another plane forrough work and the sandpaper was too slow, so I "relieved" the solein the groove area like some woodworkers do with planes. (I believe Japanese wooden planes are made this way, with just the 4 areas of contact with the planing surface.) I got the idea from "Fine Woodworkingon Planes and Chisels". I marked out the strip to be removed (well, it was marked out withthe sandpaper):View of Sole__________________________________/ || \| || ||----------||----------------------- ||A|XXXXXX|A||A|XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX|A| Hi Ron:Thanks for the offer, but sounds like a lot of trouble for you and I haveanextra plane that I plan to groove. Just need to settle on the specs, andhave heard that anywhere from .0015" to .014" depth is recommended. Whatdepth are yours cut to and what are your comments about them as wellasgroovy planes in gereral? Again, thanks for the offer-very generous ofyou. Anyone else have comments, opinions and/or recommendations on thesubject?Would like to hear them. Best Regards,Richard from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Thu Dec 5 11:04:21 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16328 for ;Thu, 5 Dec 1996 11:04:18 -0600 SVR4) (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA252615309; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 09:01:49 -0800 Organization: r-5113 Subject: binders Has anybody tried the Milward binder from Bruce Conners page and if so any comments and recomendations as whether I would be better off with a garrison style binder--pluses and minuses of both would be greatly appre.. Has anybody made a comparison of the Frank Armbruster forms as opposed the the Jeff Wagner forms, and is the Armbruster roughing form made out of steel or wood and has anybody out there tried it yet? patrick from jfoster@gte.net Thu Dec 5 12:37:21 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21831 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:37:17 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id MAA23821 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:37:13 -0600 Subject: Re: Translation Question ????? WayneWe do some international software at work and the translation softare asPhilip mentioned is very literal.. We have to hire human translators todo the job right. The suggestion of a student is probthe best one.. I understand that thee is some ai stuff that does apretty good job but it's watercooled stuff and very $$$. Jerry from bberry@terranet.net Thu Dec 5 12:44:01 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA22131 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 12:43:57 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-16231) with SMTP id AAA222 Subject: Groove in Plane Sole To Richard and Others; I took a Stanley 9 1/2 over to a machinest and had him cut a 3/4"grove down the center at a depth of .005". It works great! Make sure theyknow to soft clamp the plane in a vice, other word don't tighten it up hardin the vice. My other advice is have them use the highest speed on thecutting tool, so it doesn't leave as many cut marks in the sole. Make surethe machinest know what you really want, I had one cut it just theoppositeof what I asked for. I belive .005" is the best all around depth. To Patrick W.Coffey,Yes I built a Milward binder from as they say "scratch". I have nocomplaints except the cost of the belt, which was about $30.00 for 10feet.I coundn't find the shives I need so I turned them out of 3/4" plywood, theywork ok but I would have like steel or Aluminum. But for a low costeffective binder I'm well satisified. I think you will be amazed at how itwork, it kind of a Rube Goldberg machine that does something. I think youwill like it. Bob BerryFlatland Fly Fisher from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Thu Dec 5 15:40:06 1996 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:37:40 -0600 Subject: Lack of mail Haven't received any mail from the listserve in three days. Is the serverdown? Please excuse if this inquiry is one of many you've alreadyreceived. Thanks. Rich Brown from lostrivr@im4u.net Thu Dec 5 16:59:43 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA08835 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 16:59:39 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA19195 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:50:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Small piece(s) of bamboo requested At 07:58 AM 12/5/96 -0500, you wrote:Thank you so much for you unabashed generosity.Got your package yesterday, what a treat! Who would imagine that agrown man(myself) would take such amusement form getting wood shavings andsticks inthe mail? I am particularly grateful for the little stub of bound& turned assembledrodpiece and the cross section of culm. I'll make a bodkin from the rod pieceand the piece of culm is on my office desk for the time being. The people who populate flyfishing listservers never fail to amaze mewiththeir willingness to help. I'm popping a few Adams, Ausable Wulffs (the Ausable and the fliesoriginator, Fran Betters is about forty minute form my office), Cahillsand Ibelieve a March Brown of two in the mail. Thank you again so much for helping me indulge in my favorite pasttime"flyfishinstuff" Russ LavigneAnachemrpo@aol.com Hi Russ,Your message has made me smile after a hard hard day at work.. Gladyoucould use the stuff. My favorite all time place to fish is in theAdirondaks. I have been going there now for about 12 years each June. Imainly fish the lakes but have had some good days on the Ausable. I have agood pal in Glens Falls, Corinth and of course my buddy Digger over inMass.Maybe some day we can fish together. Ron Barch from whensel@ix.netcom.com Thu Dec 5 17:26:41 1996 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:26:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Lack of mail You wrote: Haven't received any mail from the listserve in three days. Is the server down? Please excuse if this inquiry is one of many you've already received. Thanks. Rich Brown Mile hi hello, Hi Rich just throught I would shoot an E mail at you to test your system. I am building my binder and considering sending away for the Catt. oven so far have not found a place for the duct tubing. After I saw the metal forms I ordered my form from Colorado Bootstrap and got to come up with the patience to wait another four weeks. I built the wooden forms and they have done good for pelimanry planing to get ready sure taking a life time from west coast ...maybe tomarrow or the next day because of the holliday crap. Be cool and take care, Bill in Denver from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Dec 5 18:04:47 1996 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:04:46 -0600 sherman.shentel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA05907 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:04:40 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: binders Patrick I have both forms - the Wagner is in a class by itself -no comparison. However, the Armbruster or Lon Blauvelt aremore than adequate for most rodmakers and are good value I have both binders - The Garrison is much easier tobuild by far. Tuned right it works fine. The Milward is far morecomplicated to build and unless you do Quads is not necessary. I have a roughing form (steel) on order now for several monthsand haven't seen it from Frank - so cannot comment - but my wooden onesare still working fine. Chris from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 5 18:30:15 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA14456 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:30:09 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06685 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:28:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Translation Question ????? WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I have been asked about possibly doing a Japanese version of the book-I have heard of computer programs that translate and am wondering ifany ofthe list members have any knowledge of such programs and any hands onuse?????? Wayne Wayne, An old friend of mine from college moved to Japan, married a girl fromthere, and moved back. I believe he teaches at Kent State now. Anyway, they have a small business that translates Japanese both ways formultinational businesses. I'll give him a call and get back to you . Brian > from whensel@ix.netcom.com Thu Dec 5 18:32:35 1996 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 15:42:08 -0800 Subject: Has any body been fishing the last two weeks? Just hanging out building up the stuff and doing a little waiting and more waiting. About two weeks ago I went fishing with my Grycel 7'#4 rod and caught a nice native rainbow trout about 12 inches and it had the prettiest colors any trout I caught this entire summer.So while I am waiting are there any rod builders who have been fishing the last two weeks? Mile High Bill from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 5 18:36:31 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA14686 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:36:29 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06762 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:34:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Lack of mail rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov wrote: Haven't received any mail from the listserve in three days. Is the serverdown? Please excuse if this inquiry is one of many you've alreadyreceived. Thanks. Rich Brown In two months (short timer) of being on the listserv I've noticed somegaps as well. Any one else?? Brian > from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 5 18:41:27 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA14900 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 18:41:25 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06819 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 19:39:52 -0500 Subject: Re: binders Chris Bogart wrote: Patrick I have both forms - the Wagner is in a class by itself -no comparison. However, the Armbruster or Lon Blauvelt aremore than adequate for most rodmakers and are good value I have both binders - The Garrison is much easier tobuild by far. Tuned right it works fine. The Milward is far morecomplicated to build and unless you do Quads is not necessary. I have a roughing form (steel) on order now for several monthsand haven't seen it from Frank - so cannot comment - but my woodenonesare still working fine. Chris I'm new at this and have not been following the thread relating to formmanufacturers. Who makes really good forms at as fair price, and how doI contact them. I've read that CO Bootstrap forms are just so-so, and have visited theirwebsite. What else is out there? Do used forms ever show up on themarket?? Brian > from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 5 20:08:36 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18741 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 20:08:33 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA07843 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 21:07:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Has any body been fishing the last two weeks? William Hensel wrote: Just hanging out building up the stuff and doing a little waiting andmore waiting. About two weeks ago I went fishing with my Grycel 7'#4rod and caught a nice native rainbow trout about 12 inches and it hadthe prettiest colors any trout I caught this entire summer.So while I am waiting are there any rod builders who have beenfishing the last two weeks? Mile High Bill Nope, just reading Gierach, tying, and watching it snow. But now I feel like wimp and am loadin' up for P.M. steelies. Thanks Brian > from rcurry@jlc.net Thu Dec 5 20:34:26 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19956 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 20:34:22 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03491 for Subject: Re: Translation Question ????? Wayne,I'm not familiar with any English>Japanese software; but I've tried a English>Korean program and it was not very good, surely inadequate for your needs. Yet, it was considered the best available.Best regards,ReedI have been asked about possibly doing a Japanese version of the book-I have heard of computer programs that translate and am wondering ifany ofthe list members have any knowledge of such programs and any hands onuse?????? Wayne from rcurry@jlc.net Thu Dec 5 20:45:17 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA20294 for; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 20:45:13 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA03668 for Subject: Re: Fishing books Peter,Thanks for the card (and check). This week has been frantic and I've had a hard time getting to the Postoffice with the book box. I've carried it back and forth with me every day. The books will be on their waytomorrow, I'm taking time off to do that and other errands. (Gotta fly out to Seoul on Sunday, so I cram some chores in before I leave.)Apologies, again for tardiness.Best regards,Reed from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Thu Dec 5 21:10:22 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21263 for ;Thu, 5 Dec 1996 21:10:21 -0600 Subject: Rodmaking tools Hello rodmakers, I received this post and thought I would post for your possible interest: " Hi, Michael. Thanks for the update.Would anyone you know be interested in two tools I have for cane rodbuilding? They are: a rod-wrapping machine for the gluing operation, verynice design, made by Cecil Pierce in Maine in the 1970s, and completelyunused, brand new, $75. I also have a beautiful maple planing form withthree grooves, for hexagonal rods, also completely unused and brand new,$100. Both prices include UPS insured shipping." Anybody interested in these items can email Jay at: "\"JD\" Kridner" Mike Michael Stevens610 681 5670mstevens@ptdprolog.net Collector of Heddon and Granger Flyrods send for email list of project and fishable cane rods from GLohkamp@aol.com Thu Dec 5 21:25:03 1996 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 21:25:01 -0600 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:25:01 -0500 Subject: northwest meeting 1997 northwest rod builders meeting april 12th Fmultbars.ppt - Multiple BarseSLD3PPT3lw$ap@U~@p9 ' >/cB from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Dec 5 22:32:07 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA24290 for ;Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:32:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 96-12-04 16:19:29 EST, you write: I have two planes with grooves cut in the sole. If you want to try oneout before cutting into one of your planes let me know and I loan youone tomess around with.Ron BArch Hi Ron:Thanks for the offer, but sounds like a lot of trouble for you and I haveanextra plane that I plan to groove. Just need to settle on the specs, andhave heard that anywhere from .0015" to .014" depth is recommended. Whatdepth are yours cut to and what are your comments about them as wellasgroovy planes in gereral? Again, thanks for the offer-very generous ofyou. Anyone else have comments, opinions and/or recommendations on thesubject?Would like to hear them. Best Regards,RichardHow are you going to do it.John from whensel@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 6 00:39:12 1996 AAA28563 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 00:39:10 -0600 ; Thu, 5 Dec 1996 22:39:03 -0800 Subject: Re: Has any body been fishing the last two weeks? Hello Brian,At a boy...JG is a good read and really refects my style of fishing and life in general. I have all his books and intend on reading them slowly this winter...which really hasnt be felt yet in the front ranch.Keep warm and give her a nice little pinch. By the way where is home ? Regards, Mile High Bill from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Dec 6 05:20:10 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id FAA07410 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 05:20:07 -0600 TAA03732; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:20:03 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Has any body been fishing the last two weeks? Bill,Sure have, caught a few over the last couple of weeks in a little stream about 1 hrs drive from here. Actually, I hooked em and my 11 year old son caught them. Now he understands why I stand at a bench and plane grass into triangle strips hrs on end. Tony Just hanging out building up the stuff and doing a little waiting and more waiting. About two weeks ago I went fishing with my Grycel 7'#4 rod and caught a nice native rainbow trout about 12 inches and it had the prettiest colors any trout I caught this entire summer.So while I am waiting are there any rod builders who have been fishing the last two weeks? Mile High Bill /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html/***********************************************************************/ from bootstrap@earthlink.net Fri Dec 6 08:42:23 1996 IAA13555 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 08:42:22 -0600 GAA03272 for ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 06:42:11 - Subject: Re: roughing form Chris-Problem. Either your order got lost in the mail or I've misplaced itsomehow. Did you order the roughing form by mail or did you phone mewithit? Please call me at (303)745-1353. I'm currently shipping them; haveseveral in stock right now. Frank from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 6 08:48:38 1996 ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 06:48:29 -0800 Subject: Re: northwest meeting GLohkamp@aol.com wrote: Format is round table disscussion.selecting cane : where to purchase/ what to look for.splitting cane :methods/ sawing?staggering nodes: spiral / 2x2 / 3x3 ?etc.....etc.Thats alot to talk about. With all of those great topics, you ought to consider videotaping or ahandbook of materials for those of us who can't go. I know I'd be willing to pay anominal price Mike-- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly- fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from Anachemrpo@aol.com Fri Dec 6 09:50:58 1996 ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 09:50:55 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 10:50:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Small piece(s) of bamboo requested In a message dated 96-12-05 18:28:00 EST, you write: I'd Like that. Keep in touch. See you on the List & thanks again. Russ Lavigne from CWoodrn@aol.com Fri Dec 6 10:06:31 1996 ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 10:06:30 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:06:29 -0500 Subject: Learning to build bamboo rods Hello there!Can anyone tell me how I would go about learning to build bamboo rods?I've been through Garrison/Carmichael a couple times and it's given me arough idea of the process. The thing is I'm not a very good "learn from thebook type person." What I would ultimately like to do is to learn from an individual whoknows the ins and outs. Are there any apprentice programs for bamboo rodbuilders? My main objective is to learn the craft of bamboo rodconstructionproperly. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them! Thanks,Bryan WoodSan Diego, CA from whensel@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 6 11:07:31 1996 ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 09:07:21 -0800 Subject: Re: Learning to build bamboo rods You wrote: Hello there!Can anyone tell me how I would go about learning to build bamboo rods?I've been through Garrison/Carmichael a couple times and it's given me arough idea of the process. The thing is I'm not a very good "learn from thebook type person." What I would ultimately like to do is to learn from an individual whoknows the ins and outs. Are there any apprentice programs for bamboo rodbuilders? My main objective is to learn the craft of bamboo rod constructionproperly. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them! Thanks,Bryan WoodSan Diego, CA Dear Bryan, Get Catts. book that coupled with Garrisons book should set you right on course.I found that most rod makers or very kind and will take the time to show you the ropes.However, and I could be wrong but finding a rod maker that has the time to walk you through your first rod might be tuff. My personal feeling is that all the rod makers bootstraped them selves in to thethe craft and once you have taken the plunge and I do mean plunge then the doors will open up to you.I am building my binder as we talk and built my own forms but decided to order a set of metal forms from Colorado Bootstrap so I am waiting for them also. I am a nobody but I think one has to get cut and sweat a little before the world of rod making opens its arms.Keep in mind I could be totally wrong so dive in and come up smiling. Regards Mile High Bill from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Dec 6 11:14:09 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23725 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:14:08 -0600 Subject: Re: Learning to build bamboo rods Bryan seez... Hello there!Can anyone tell me how I would go about learning to build bamboorods?I've been through Garrison/Carmichael a couple times and it's given me arough idea of the process. The thing is I'm not a very good "learn from thebook type person." What I would ultimately like to do is to learn from an individual whoknows the ins and outs. Are there any apprentice programs for bamboo rodbuilders? My main objective is to learn the craft of bamboo rodconstructionproperly. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them! Hello Bryan, welcome to the group... The Garrison book is an excellent resource, albeit a bit more technicalthan is necessary to start out. Another excellent book to start youout is fellow listmember, Wayne Cattanach's _Handcrafting BambooFlyrods_Wayne has also produced a two-tape video describing the whole process from start to finish. The tapes are an excellent resource, though allthe RODMAKERS are considering taking up a collection to send Wayne toacting school!!! As for classes, Wayne, as well as a few others in the midwest and eastcoast offer classes. Not sure of any classes on the west coast.Anyone else know of any classes out west? Any of the above resources should get you going... Mike - wishing he took a class - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Dec 6 11:35:20 1996 ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 11:35:18 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 12:35:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Learning to build bamboo rods Bryan -If you aren't a book type perhaps a video? The last option would beattending one of the classes offered by a few of the makers - but they aremostly located in the midwest and east coast. Ralph Moon nearYellowstone -Lon Blauvelt -Maine - Chris Bogart - Virginia - Myself - Michigan. I would ask this question as a sort of reality check - You aren'tthinking that you can make a living at rod making ????? Wayne from jonrc@atlantic.net Fri Dec 6 13:58:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA04153 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 13:58:11 -0600 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id PAA20176 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:05:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Saturday morning chat Just a reminder about the Saturday morning chat. This will be the thirdweek and it seems to be growing each week. I hope that some of you willjoin us there on Saturday at 10:00 AM EST. http://www.flyshop.com/Chat/index.html just a nice place to meet fellow fly fishing folk and cane builders too. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Dec 6 14:49:35 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07700 for ;Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:49:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Learning to build bamboo rods HAt 01:22 AM 12/6/96 CST, you wrote:Bryan seez... Hello there!Can anyone tell me how I would go about learning to build bamboorods?I've been through Garrison/Carmichael a couple times and it's given me arough idea of the process. The thing is I'm not a very good "learn fromthebook type person." What I would ultimately like to do is to learn from an individual whoknows the ins and outs. Are there any apprentice programs for bamboorodbuilders? My main objective is to learn the craft of bamboo rodconstructionproperly. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them! Hello Bryan, welcome to the group... The Garrison book is an excellent resource, albeit a bit more technicalthan is necessary to start out. Another excellent book to start youout is fellow listmember, Wayne Cattanach's _Handcrafting BambooFlyrods_Wayne has also produced a two-tape video describing the whole process from start to finish. The tapes are an excellent resource, though allthe RODMAKERS are considering taking up a collection to send Wayne toacting school!!! As for classes, Wayne, as well as a few others in the midwest and eastcoast offer classes. Not sure of any classes on the west coast.Anyone else know of any classes out west? Any of the above resources should get you going... Mike - wishing he took a class - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Byron I teach both individuals and classes. You are a little too far for me, butI know there are a number of rodmakers in the San Diego and LA area,perhapsyou can find someone who can help. Acually as Mike has indicated you cangoit alone, as I and many others did. Some us did not even have the leg upGarrison and Carmichael gave the craft. I still think that there are a lotof little techniques and tips that can be gained only through a lot ofexerience or by taking lessons. Example: most beginners simply cannotmaintain an eqilaterslconfiguration on their strips. There are some techniques that help Jump in, ask questions and prepare for a dose of humility, but go for it. Ralph MoonChester Idaho from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Dec 6 14:51:01 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07761 for ;Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:50:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Learning to build bamboo rods At 12:35 PM 12/6/96 -0500, you wrote:Bryan -If you aren't a book type perhaps a video? The last option would beattending one of the classes offered by a few of the makers - but theyaremostly located in the midwest and east coast. Ralph Moon nearYellowstone -Lon Blauvelt -Maine - Chris Bogart - Virginia - Myself - Michigan. I would ask this question as a sort of reality check - You aren'tthinking that you can make a living at rod making ????? Wayne Amen to your reality check Wayne, and thanks for the plug Ralph from lostrivr@im4u.net Fri Dec 6 15:14:16 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA08966 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:14:08 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA31772 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 17:04:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Learning to build bamboo rods At 11:06 AM 12/6/96 -0500, you wrote:Hello there!Can anyone tell me how I would go about learning to build bamboorods?I've been through Garrison/Carmichael a couple times and it's given me arough idea of the process. The thing is I'm not a very good "learn from thebook type person." What I would ultimately like to do is to learn from an individual whoknows the ins and outs. Are there any apprentice programs for bamboo rodbuilders? My main objective is to learn the craft of bamboo rodconstructionproperly. If anyone has any suggestions I would love to hear them! Thanks,Bryan WoodSan Diego, CA Bryan. Two comments: subscribe to the Planing Form Newsletter andtakeGeorge Mauer's rodmaking class or Lon Blauvlet's Ron B. from hood@hpesdah.fc.hp.com Fri Dec 6 15:49:17 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA11443 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 15:49:11 -0600 palrel3.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA02152 for (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA04489; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 14:48:48 -0700 Subject: Re: Learning to build bamboo rods Bryan -If you aren't a book type perhaps a video? The last option would beattending one of the classes offered by a few of the makers - but theyaremostly located in the midwest and east coast. Ralph Moon nearYellowstone -Lon Blauvelt -Maine - Chris Bogart - Virginia - Myself - Michigan.I would ask this question as a sort of reality check - You aren'tthinking that you can make a living at rod making ????? Wayne Who is Ralph Moon and how can I contact him regarding his rod buildingclasses? Any other information about this class would be appreciated. thanks,David Hoodhood@fc.hp.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Dec 6 18:42:46 1996 ; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 18:42:45 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:42:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Lack of mail Brian,I've had some gaps ,too, but not this time.Hank Woolman. from mrj@seanet.com Fri Dec 6 19:02:58 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22951 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:02:56 -0600 Subject: Re: binders I have built a Milward style binder. Actually the Milward binder is a copyof a Dawn Holbrook design and mine wasw copied from the original Holbrookone but it looks much more like the Milward style. It is very good and cost next to nothing. I have heard a lot of talk about people having a lot of troublefindingbelts for these. What I did was get some clear plastic flexable tubingabout 1/4 lengthand cut it and superglued a short piece of fiberglass fishing rod into the center (about 1 to 1 1/4 inches long is fine. I then wrapped flyting threadoverthe outside of the tubing where you connected the tubing. Yes there is ahard spot in the tubing, no it does not have any effect. cost of the belt is maybe $2.00. The pullys I got from a local hardware store. I mounted them on apiece of aluminum that I bored out to maybe 3/4 inch Over this I slipped onebearing which was about 3/4 inch wide. I set the bearing in a piece of steel angleironwhich I welded to a stand pipe with a base and used a hose clamp to fastenit (the bearing) down. The stand pipe was about three inches high. Just highenoughto clear the pully wheels. I found one bearing per side to be plenty. I was prepared to make two bearings per side if needed but the flex wasminimal. If you like I could send you a photo. This is pretty simple and did not costvery much. The In message writes:Has anybody tried the Milward binder from Bruce Conners page and if so any comments and recomendations as whether I would be better off with a garrison style binder--pluses and minuses of both would be greatly appre.. Has anybody made a comparison of the Frank Armbruster forms as opposed the the Jeff Wagner forms, and is the Armbruster roughing form made out of steel or wood and has anybody out there tried it yet? patrick Martin Jensen from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 6 19:57:53 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA25298 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 19:57:51 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19970 for; Fri, 6 Dec 1996 20:56:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Has any body been fishing the last two weeks? William Hensel wrote: Hello Brian,At a boy...JG is a good read and really refects my style offishing and life in general. I have all his books and intend onreading them slowly this winter...which really hasnt be felt yet in thefront ranch.Keep warm and give her a nice little pinch. By the way where ishome ? Regards, Mile High Bill _rҙ; RQHFeo3PP40 kSummaryInformation(vCurrent UserI? kf>@.nnn& @2rr`r&"" :P`h &`$$P$&t" `UUU&"(J b&"I.0Lz|}^vsvE0_" OY EU $x+2'UN "ϯ_&OA Ăs_,/ M-I,/7ddLorem Ipsum ,/7ddLIs UnKdDelor sit amet consectetuer adipiscing elit sed diam Nonummy nibh euismod Tincidunt ut Laoreet dolore Magna aliquam Exerci tation ullamcorper suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea comM 6 E 6UnKdDdd D_ddD_ddDddEUnKdr Ăp_ 0Oot B^p`L s^ dd rOc Pu >[33RR]hh\RR^""YYYYYYW\GGGvvv1117Uoo__333333oooo??XY% - ~|5dddXYhhh@1XI(^B%=pEr?: o%I~I^5Qddd/$Z|XYhhhYDaG[U3I(^RRRZddPAYX333333oO7UW<(?: ohhhPf0/01OZOZxOa0M,,,,,ddddddddddL UnKdDddD_ddDddD_ddL ddddddddddLTddTddTddTddTddAdddddddddd 00 Helvetica5pMonotype Sorts7Geneva90PfX"68:HP Brian, Lets Go Fishin Sometime or just talk rods and big fish. I am 30minutes South of GRand Rapids. Ron B from lostrivr@im4u.net Sat Dec 7 21:34:32 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05494 for; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 21:34:28 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id XAA14597 for; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 23:25:10 -0500 Subject: Re: The Planing Form At 02:15 PM 12/7/96 -0800, you wrote:This message is for Ron Barch, Editor of the Planing Form. I would like to submit a letter to you for the next issue of the PlaningForm and want to know if I can e-mail it to you. I am sure that I have seen youin this group before but I do not have your e-mail address.Thank you mrj@seanet.com Martin Jensen Marty I would prefer we conduct business via the old US Postal service.Address requets to The Planing Form PO Box 365 Hastings MI 49058Ron Barch rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us my e-mail address from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Dec 7 22:29:38 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA07246 for; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 22:29:37 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA30085 for; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 23:27:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Has any body been fishing the last two weeks? lostrivr@im4u.net wrote: At 09:01 PM 12/6/96 -0500, you wrote:William Hensel wrote: Hello Brian,At a boy...JG is a good read and really refects my style offishing and life in general. I have all his books and intend onreading them slowly this winter...which really hasnt be felt yet in thefront ranch.Keep warm and give her a nice little pinch. By the way where ishome ? Regards, Mile High Bill Bill, Western Michigan. I'm 2+ hours from the AuSable (if I'm confident thefuzzbuster is working and the deer aren't moving around too much), 1.5h from the PM. It's not right on the water, but close enough to get outafter work once daylight savings time kicks-in. Brian > Brian, Lets Go Fishin Sometime or just talk rods and big fish. I am 30minutes South of GRand Rapids. Ron B Ron, I'D like that. Do you do any winter steel head fishing? It's not realpredictable (to me, at any rate) but getting out is always better thanstewing in the cabin. Brian > from hihoslvr@teleport.com Sat Dec 7 23:09:35 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA08594 for; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 23:09:33 -0600 SMTP id VAA11332 for ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 Subject: Re: binders At 05:02 PM 12/6/96 -0800, you wrote:I have built a Milward style binder. Actually the Milward binder is a copyof a Dawn Holbrook design and mine wasw copied from the original Holbrookonebut it looks much more like the Milward style. It is very good and cost next to nothing. I have heard a lot of talk about people having a lot of troublefindingbelts for these. What I did was get some clear plastic flexable tubingabout 1/4 lengthand cut it and superglued a short piece of fiberglass fishing rod into the center (about 1 to 1 1/4 inches long is fine. I then wrapped flytingthreadoverthe outside of the tubing where you connected the tubing. Yes there is ahard spot in the tubing, no it does not have any effect. cost of the belt ismaybe $2.00. The pullys I got from a local hardware store. I mounted them on apiece of aluminum that I bored out to maybe 3/4 inch Over this I slipped onebearing which was about 3/4 inch wide. I set the bearing in a piece of steelangleironwhich I welded to a stand pipe with a base and used a hose clamp tofasten it (the bearing) down. The stand pipe was about three inches high. Just highenoughto clear the pully wheels. I found one bearing per side to be plenty. I was prepared to make two bearings per side if needed but the flex wasminimal. If you like I could send you a photo. This is pretty simple and did not costvery much. The In message writes:Has anybody tried the Milward binder from Bruce Conners page and ifso any comments and recomendations as whether I would be better offwith a garrison style binder--pluses and minuses of both would be greatly appre.. Has anybody made a comparison of the Frank Armbruster formsas opposed the the Jeff Wagner forms, and is the Armbruster roughingform made out of steel or wood and has anybody out there tried it yet? patrick Martin Jensen To Anyone out there with info.I have been hearing about Mr. Dawn Holbrook for years and years. Alwayswith a great deal of respect from who ever comments. I really would liketolearn more about the gentleman. Would appreciate anythoughts,commentsfirst hand reports. Thanks Ron Barch To Ron Barch I was taught Rod Building originally from Dawn Holbrook. I am sorry tosaythat he has passed on to the great steelhead river in the sky. There aresome people who believe him to be a maker of baseball bats, but in realityhe developed very usable rods for larger fish, i.e. salmon, tuna, resnapper sea bass, and even halibut. Nonetheless, he also developed somegood tapers for trout as well. Maybe the best thing he is remembered forishis rod winding machine. It is a huge monster. Your rod stayed wrappedwhen his machine was used. The binding cord was kite string (cotten). Hewas in love with bamboo, and could perform mircles at his planing form.When he and his brother had Rainbow Rods, they turned out somemagnificantpieces of art. Then his brother died and Dawn lost interest in hisbusiness, and just continued making twenty or so a year for special folks.He also had a rod building class yearly, as well as a casting clinic formen, women , and children. He strongly believed fly fishing was a familysport. I don't know if there are any past or present members of TheNorthwest Fly Anglers who are members, but if there are I am sure theycouldtell you more. He was one of the founding members, and a very specialmentor to many who are now bamboo rod artisans. Ron from RckyMtKane@aol.com Sat Dec 7 23:52:29 1996 ; Sat, 7 Dec 1996 23:52:27 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 00:52:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Has any body been fishing the last two weeks? Bill Joe here if you get to a point that you can't possibly wait any longer foryour forms come on up and I'll lend you my extra set!!! Wouldn't wantanyoneto have to wait to long to get his first rod built.See you Joe from FFer4trout@aol.com Sun Dec 8 03:28:40 1996 ; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 03:28:38 -0600 Dec 1996 04:28:37 -0500 Subject: Re:Re: baitcast taper In a message dated 96-12-07 16:05:30 EST, you write: Subj: baitcast taperDate: 96-12-07 16:05:30 ESTFrom: gord@teleport.com (Gordon Johnson) Hi Don, I'd love that Montague taper if it wouldn't put you out. I'll post in onmytaper page. Cheers,Gordhttp://www.teleport.com/~gord/canelink.shtml Gordon, This is my first time for providing a taper from a existing rod, and thisrodstill has the ferrules & realseat mounted. I just stripped it this week andI'm now ready to rewrap. I'll give you each section's total length (ferrules and all) and the canedepth from the ferrule end (inside the female ferrule). There's a cork plugin the last ring of the lower grip (no cap) so the cane ends somewhere upinside the grip, but that shouldn't marrer. The tip section has been roundedoff by Montague to fit the tiptop so I'll give you the 1" measurement also.I'll then go in 5" marks from tip -- 0", 1", 5" etc. Each measurement willbethe average of all three flat-to-flat's. I hope this is okay! Rod Spec's -- Montague trade rod baitcaster rod- no Montague label. Rod is of about Montague Rapidan level of quality with shouldered rolled- weltNPB ferrules, but has 3 guides plus tiptop (RapidaEEF6 neonlits.ppt - Neon LightsLSLD3PPT3lw,adD_dd UvKdUvKdD_ddEUu[x x[ [x from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Dec 8 13:58:24 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA25259 for; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 13:58:22 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA296 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Jasper Thread CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Don, I recently received some black/red mingled thread from Belvoirdale. Itlooks to me like about size A, although it's advertised as 00 to A in size.I'm going to use it on a Heddon #10 also. While I'm at it, does the #10your restoring originally have any signature wraps between the openhookkeeper wrap and the stripper guide wrap? Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mac: Do you have any experience with the other silk threads from Belvoirdale?They seemed pricey but I have not found much selection from othersuppliers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton,PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sun Dec 8 15:37:02 1996 ; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 13:36:57 -0800 Subject: Re: Has any body been fishing the last two weeks? You wrote: Bill Joe here if you get to a point that you can't possibly wait any longer foryour forms come on up and I'll lend you my extra set!!! Wouldn't want anyoneto have to wait to long to get his first rod built.See you JoeHi Joe, Thanks for the invite...never know I migh take you up on the offer. I am about 95 percent done on the binder as of today. I spent the entire day working outside in the yard. Should of been in some womens arms or fishing on a stream. If the weather is nice tommarrow I may go on the south platte.Still waiting for the CATT. vedios guess UPS lost them.Be cool and I stoped by Anglers all and told them about you there are a couple of guys that work there that are Bambo nuts. Regards, Bill from FFer4trout@aol.com Sun Dec 8 16:41:02 1996 ; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 16:41:00 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 17:40:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Jasper Thread In a message dated 96-12-08 15:03:13 EST, you write: Subj: Re: Jasper ThreadDate: 96-12-08 15:03:13 ESTFrom: plipton@sunvalley.net (Philip Lipton)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Don, I recently received some black/red mingled thread from Belvoirdale. Itlooks to me like about size A, although it's advertised as 00 to A insize. I'm going to use it on a Heddon #10 also. While I'm at it, does the#10your restoring originally have any signature wraps between the openhookkeeper wrap and the stripper guide wrap? Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mac: Do you have any experience with the other silk threads fromBelvoirdale?They seemed pricey but I have not found much selection from othersuppliers. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton,PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip, Mac posted the Belvoirdale posting for me and I'm just placed my firstorderwith Grahame Maisey (nice guy) for both some jasper and some othercolors andwill get back to you with results, if you like. Sure would be nice to be ableto have an Elephant thread color chart though. I've also ordered a lot of silk thread from Angler's Workshop (Phone #360-225-9445), they carry the complete Gudebrod line of thread plus YLIsilkthread sold under Angler's own part #'s. The YLI/Angler thread comes inmetric 100 (~ US 3/0) and metric 50 (~ US - "A") sizes and comes in ~ 47colors. NOTE - Not all YLI/Angler's colors come in both thread sizes and that's notclear from the catalog. Call and ask before you order. Also good people. Don Burns PS - Angler's Workshop also carries cane rod blanks, Mildrum stripperguides,Agateen guides and NS ferrules. from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sun Dec 8 19:59:30 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA02774 for; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 19:59:28 -0600 SAA17162; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 18:59:37 -0700 Subject: rodbuilder To David Hood of Ft Collins, I have been out of town and just getting back to you. Yes I am new to rodbuilding, just finishing my 3rd rod. I don't know if I can be of muchhelp as I am still learning. But two heads are better than one so I amalways ready to talk to any one about rodbuilding. Let me know if youwould like to get together and how I can contact you. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sun Dec 8 20:02:31 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA02852 for; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 20:02:29 -0600 TAA18036; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 19:02:38 -0700 Subject: Montague Rapidan? My brother recently picked up a 8 1/2 foot Montague Rapidan in a garagesale. Can anyone on the list fill me in on this rod. Line weight? value?ect. It appears to be in very good condition with the exception of aloose ferule on the middle section. Thanks in advance, Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Dec 8 21:19:53 1996 ; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 21:19:52 -0600 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 22:19:51 -0500 Subject: Plane grooves Thanks to Bob Matarazzo, Philip Lipton, Darryl Hayashida, Frank Stetzer,BobBerry and Ron Barch and others for help with plane grooving. To JohnZimny -think I'll take the easy way out and glue .005" shim stock on my planeafterRon Barch sends his loaner for evaluation. Best Regards to all,Richard from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Dec 8 21:44:24 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA05887 for; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 21:44:22 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA06688 for; Sun, 8 Dec 1996 22:42:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Montague Rapidan? Jim Fillpot wrote: My brother recently picked up a 8 1/2 foot Montague Rapidan in a garagesale. Can anyone on the list fill me in on this rod. Line weight? value?ect. It appears to be in very good condition with the exception of aloose ferule on the middle section. Thanks in advance, Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado Jim, set your web browser loose on http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htmIt's called the Classic Angler. Search their pages for the CrackerBarrel Corner and the Value Guide for Bamboo Flyrods. Montangue hasbeen featured there for several months (this part doesn't get up-datedvery much, apparently they are busy selling used, Er, I mean "classic"fishin' stuff) Seems like good information, but my knowledge is mostly anecdotal atthis time, so maybe I'm not a very good judge. Montague seems to have made a bazillion rods in hundreds of (well,dozens, maybe) of models. Some were reputed to have been outstandingtomato stakes. Haven't heard much praise for their production rods,tho'. Maybe someone who knows better can set me straight??? Rapidan seems to fall in the middle of their line, and if the used rodlists are an indication, there are many of them still around. A realnice 8.5' (according to Classic Angler) should fetch around $150 - $175,depending. Hope this is some small assistance. Brian > from wellive@ibm.net Mon Dec 9 08:23:57 1996 IAA06787 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 08:23:56 -0600 14:23:52 GMT smtp-gw01.ny.us.ibm.net via smap (V1.3mjr) VERSION 1.3.14/2.12um) id AA0019; Mon, 09 Dec 96 07:24:29 -0800 Subject: Bamboo Grading I've been interested in the mechanical properties of fly rods for some time. The discussions regarding "stress curves" here have lead meto ask if anyone is aware of the physical properties of bamboo. Specifically, the allowable "usable" stresses (fb) seem to be defined as aset upper limit as well as the modulus of elasticity (E). In wood framelumber grades are established either by visual grading or machine stressrating. Is there any recognition of varying qualities or are the limitsused as the best available knowledge ? You may be aware that lumber grades can vary widely based on the qualityofthe species used and the origin of the cut piece within the tree.Bamboo probably does not share this need for concern, but I'm wonderingif the performance characteristics are affected by this possiblevariation. //----------------------------------------------------------------// Barry H. Welliver(wellive@ibm.net)Draper, UtahWherever you go..... There you will be. from whensel@ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 9 08:55:12 1996 ; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 06:55:08 -0800 Subject: Re: rodbuilder Hello,Nice to see another rod maker near by. My name is Bill Hensel and I am working on finishing my binder and after I made my wooden formsI decided to order some metal ones from Colorado Bootstrap. Anyhow, have a nice day and I just wanted to touch base. Regards, Bill Hensel from FFer4trout@aol.com Mon Dec 9 09:30:34 1996 ; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 09:30:30 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 10:30:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Montague Rapidan? In a message dated 96-12-08 22:52:53 EST, you write: Jim Fillpot wrote: My brother recently picked up a 8 1/2 foot Montague Rapidan in a garagesale. Can anyone on the list fill me in on this rod. Line weight? value?ect. It appears to be in very good condition with the exception of aloose ferule on the middle section. Thanks in advance, Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado SNIP Montague seems to have made a bazillion rods in hundreds of (well,dozens, maybe) of models. Some were reputed to have been outstandingtomato stakes. Haven't heard much praise for their production rods,tho'. Maybe someone who knows better can set me straight??? Rapidan seems to fall in the middle of their line, and if the used rodlists are an indication, there are many of them still around. A realnice 8.5' (according to Classic Angler) should fetch around $150 - $175,depending. Hope this is some small assistance. Brian > Good advice regarding Classic Angler. Look around for their Montague valuelist. The Rapidan was the highest priced Montague rod that came without NSferrules, a real weakness in most low-end Montague rods. The rod shouldhavesome nice-looking flamed cane, but with only so-so glue lines and nodework.It was Montague's bread-and-butter model. Look for stress cracks in both male and female ferrules. If cracked, low- costnon-original design ferrules of NPB can be fitted (Angler's Workshop orNetcraft) or for more money than the rod's worth (2 NS ferrule sets ~$80)some quality NS ferrules can be installed. Regluing of the loose ferrule should easy but remove the retaining pinbeforetying to remove the ferrule. Line wt. on most of these production rods run in the 6 wt - 8 wt. range. Montague's high-end rods, the Fishkill model and above, are very nice rodswith quality NS (hand-welted and serrated) ferrules, very good cane andniceD/L reelreats. The low-end real-mass-production-rods' poor reputationstillkeeps the market value on these high-end rods quite low and they can beverygood bargains, if purchased right. But wait until after I buy a few more. I'd love to find a nice 2 piece 7' Manitou or Redwing model to go along withmy 7' Fishkill. Rewrap and other details for Montague rods can be found in MichaelSinclair's"Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook". Montague didn't seem to stardardizewrapcolors like most mfg'rs but most rod models have a very common colorpattern. Don Burns Collector of Gillums, owner of Montagues from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Dec 9 10:01:23 1996 ; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 10:01:20 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 11:01:17 -0500 Subject: 1997 NAPA Calender Parts calender shows a couple of culms of what appears to be tonkinbamboo.Perhaps this is the excuse I've needed to be able to hang the calender inmyshop. 1997 looks to be a very good year. Wayne from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Mon Dec 9 12:16:47 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA23796 for; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 12:16:41 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Taper Measuring This message is directed to Gordon Johnson, but if anyone else has anyopinions, feel free to jump in. I have a taper that I would like to "donate" to your taper list, butbefore I do I was wondering if there are any standardized ways formeasuring a taper. What I've done is take micrometer measurementsat multiples of 5 inches from the tip (where possible) by measuringacross the three pairs of flats and then taking the average. I alsoaverage across both tip sections in the case of a two-tip rod. Whenone of the "ideal" measurement points falls on a guide or ferrule orwhatever, I measure nearby points and then interpolate. My engineeringsense tells me that this is a good way to go, but I really don't knowwhat others have done. Bob MatarazzoMelville, NYe-mail: matarazz@hazeltine.com from whensel@ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 9 18:09:46 1996 ; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 16:09:38 -0800 Subject: Re: The Angler's Bamboo from jonrc@atlantic.net Mon Dec 9 21:11:18 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA29584 for; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:11:15 -0600 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id WAA32163 for; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 22:20:22 -0500 Subject: Re: El Primo Cork!!!!!! lostrivr@im4u.net wrote: I have just received some cork rings from John Bradford, a fellowrodmaker.I am so excited that I have to pass this on.....it would have been in thelatest issue of Planing Form Newsletter but it went to print before thecorkarrived.John called me awhile ago and we talked cork availability and quality.John told me he had around 4000 rings in his stockpile and wanted tosellsome. I was interested in seeing some and he sent enough for 2 grips. WHENTHEY ARRIVED I WAS PLEASANTLY SURPRISED. THE BEST CORK I HAVESEEN FOR SOMETIME.]Here's John Bradford's Numbers phone: 817-292-3324 fax 817-263-4404John is not a computer kind of guy that is why I am posting this. I did notwant to wait until the next newsletter to spread the word. Ron Barch If you need cork rings in small quanities, you need to contact JohnBradford. Yes the price is high, but the cork I've purchased in thepast, I would only use 40%. The 100 pieces I got from John, I'll use allbut three. It's a great value and John is only selling 1000 pieces. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Mon Dec 9 21:33:42 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA01332 for; Mon, 9 Dec 1996 21:33:41 -0600 #19314) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: TEST MIM_rҙ; RQHF^4PP40 SummaryInformation(vCurrent UserI@ f?@6vvv&@:zz`z&/" "BXpP*z& @ P &L"r&" & (" N p 0 zvv$z" " [33RR]hh\RR^""YYYYYYW\GGGvvv1117Uoo__333333oooo??JK% - ~|ddd7XYhhhYDaG[U3I(^RRRdt7\XY^o|ix]'UI(^C33e`EPfT/0Oa,OdO_(M,,,,,ddddddddddL UlKdD_ddUlAdD_ddDddL ddddddddddLTddTddTddTddTddAdddddddddd 00U Helvetica4Times6pMonotype Sorts8Geneva:(Pfx579;HPIB from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Dec 10 18:12:10 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA18609 for ;Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:12:09 - 0600 TAA10712 for ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:12:07 Subject: LONG Rods To Karl Hube, Hi Karl,Am sending this to the list because perhaps others may be interested.Yes, I love one-piecers because their performance greatly outpacesferruled rods. And no ferrules to wear out. But you need a van or Suburbanto transport them. It's worth it!You ask how to heat treat long rods. Two ways: either use TomSmithwick'sseven foot oven (and put a little splice in the handle of slightly longerrods) or make nodeless beauties care of Chris Bogart. (Incidently I'mtryingto get Tom to put a little hole in the end of his oven for even longer work.So far no luck)How do I finish the cork? Yes, by hand. Perhaps others might know a waytospin a long rod in a lathe without disaster. Any help out there?Yes the two-bobbin method works great to glue- bind long rods. Probablywould be a problem in your coffee-grinder binders.Try the ultimate rod, the five-side one piecer. Best regards, Bill Fink from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Dec 10 18:12:19 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18625 for ;Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:12:17 - 0600 Subject: Re: Morticing At 12:43 AM 12/10/96 CST, you wrote:Rich seez... Does anyone have any insights into the tools and techniques needed formorticing wood/cork spacers on reel seats? Wayne Cattanach has a section in his book on making reelseat spacers. 'fingernail' bit. Also, Jerry Foster arranged for a machinist to supply mandrels forturning reelseats. I think there is a description on the RODMAKERSwebpage. Mike - bit his fingernail - BiondoSt. Louis, MO I have used a dremel tool mounted as a mill attachment to my lathe withabout an 1/8" ball cutter. Worked pretty good for me, but I don't do muchof it. Ralph Moon from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Dec 10 18:22:52 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19361 for ;Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:22:50 - 0600 Subject: Re: Small 1 pc. rod tapers At 01:10 PM 12/10/96 -0500, you wrote:I roughed out some pieces about 4 months ago in the hopes ofmaking a 1 pc rod on the order of 6 ft. long. well, as withmany of my projects the pieces has been sitting........andwaiting. In the latest issue of the Planing Form (#42) thereis a taper for a Paul Young Midge 6'3". Is this a one-pieceand if os, would it be about a 4wt.? If not, does anyone haveany suggestions for a one-piece on the order of 6' 4wt. Herein Central VA I think such a rod would be great for smallstream fishing. Thanks Dave Makel Dave I have a number of tapers for short one piece rods. I'll send themto you a little later. I will have to dig them up and it is time for dinnerright now.Ralph Moon from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 10 18:34:17 1996 ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:34:15 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 19:34:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Grading Barry,While I'm not an engineer I've planed about a 100 rods in the last 20years and had variations in a given taper that I can only attribute tovariations in culm density. How this variation can be quantified withoutdestroying the culm escapes me. This variation is one of the reasons I lookon the computer generated stress factors with a slightly jaundiced eye.It'salso one of the reasons I still enjoy this silly game-I often get pleasantlysurprised.Good luck with whatever you do with this.Hank Woolman. from lostrivr@im4u.net Tue Dec 10 18:54:33 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21276 for; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 18:54:30 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA22921 for; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 20:45:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Small 1 pc. rod tapers At 01:10 PM 12/10/96 -0500, you wrote:I roughed out some pieces about 4 months ago in the hopes ofmaking a 1 pc rod on the order of 6 ft. long. well, as withmany of my projects the pieces has been sitting........andwaiting. In the latest issue of the Planing Form (#42) thereis a taper for a Paul Young Midge 6'3". Is this a one-pieceand if os, would it be about a 4wt.? If not, does anyone haveany suggestions for a one-piece on the order of 6' 4wt. Herein Central VA I think such a rod would be great for smallstream fishing. Thanks Dave Makel Hi Dave,The Midge is not designed to be a one pc. but maybe someone out therecan rework the numbers to make it one.Anyway.....Contact Chris Bogart for small rod tapers. The ones I havecast of his are very nice. He outfished me and Maurer one day in Michiganwith his small wooden stick. Another suggestion is the Black Jack Spring taper of Tom Fulk's. Itis a 5wt but an exception small stream one pc. rod. Good Luck. Ron Barch from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Dec 10 22:47:29 1996 ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:47:28 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:47:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Small 1 pc. rod tapers In a message dated 96-12-10 16:24:25 EST, you write: I roughed out some pieces about 4 months ago in the hopes ofmaking a 1 pc rod on the order of 6 ft. long. well, as withmany of my projects the pieces has been sitting........andwaiting. In the latest issue of the Planing Form (#42) thereis a taper for a Paul Young Midge 6'3". Is this a one-pieceand if os, would it be about a 4wt.? If not, does anyone haveany suggestions for a one-piece on the order of 6' 4wt. Herein Central VA I think such a rod would be great for smallstream fishing. ThanksDave Makel Dave - here is a 6-0 reported to be a #3/4 as a two piece. I cast it with a# 4 and it is really fine, but have not fished it. It is reported to be byRiffel and from a prototype Leonard blank. Those of us who cast it rate itas med to med slow, but no whimp as it has adequat power and a sweetfeel,though a very different rod from the PHY Midge I have cast. 0 - 070 36 - 1705 - 082 40 - 19210 - 100 45 - 20215 - 108 50 - 21220 - 120 55 - 23025 - 140 60 - 23630 - 148 65 - 24435 - 164 70 - 25236 - 170 70 - 254 As a one-piece rod, it will probably be a bit faster, not having to carry theweight of the ferrule and who knows, may be better. The rod as built isquite blond - one cy of it I know was glued up with NYATEX epoxy whichspeeded it up too much, so I recommend urac or resorcinol. BTW, startedculmprep this evening for both that rod as 2-pc and Midge as 3-pc. Best Regards,Richard Tyree from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Dec 10 22:49:02 1996 ; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 22:49:01 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:49:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Small 1 pc. rod tapers If you were to make a 1 pc rod from the 6' 3" taper listed in TPF thenumbers would look like this tip .0705 .08210 09915 .11520 .12825 .14530 .15835 .17840 .18945 .19250 .20655 .21660 .22765 .23470 .24170 .241 . from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Dec 10 23:01:28 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA05365 for ;Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:01:25 - 0600 Subject: Re: Morticing Rich Margiotta wrote: Subject: Time: 10:20 AMOFFICE MEMO Morticing Date: 12/10/96 Does anyone have any insights into the tools and techniques needed formorticing wood/cork spacers on reel seats? Rich Rich. This can be done with a router, but, the hot setup is a horizontal mill. Many do it right on a metal lath. You'll need a cutter suitable John from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Dec 10 23:11:20 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA05916 for ;Tue, 10 Dec 1996 23:11:19 - 0600 Subject: Re: LONG Rods Bill Fink wrote: To Karl Hube, Hi Karl,Am sending this to the list because perhaps others may be interested.Yes, I love one-piecers because their performance greatly outpacesferruled rods. And no ferrules to wear out. But you need a van orSuburbanto transport them. It's worth it!You ask how to heat treat long rods. Two ways: either use TomSmithwick'sseven foot oven (and put a little splice in the handle of slightly longerrods) or make nodeless beauties care of Chris Bogart. (Incidently I'mtryingto get Tom to put a little hole in the end of his oven for even longerwork.So far no luck)How do I finish the cork? Yes, by hand. Perhaps others might know away tospin a long rod in a lathe without disaster. Any help out there?Yes the two-bobbin method works great to glue- bind long rods. Probablywould be a problem in your coffee-grinder binders.Try the ultimate rod, the five-side one piecer.Best regards, Bill Fink Hi Bill.Why not add a couple of steady rests (floor mounte) and spin your rod.Also, there's no reason why you couldn's spin a handle on a mandrel and then mount it on the rod.John from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Dec 11 08:24:46 1996 ; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 08:24:44 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 09:24:43 -0500 Subject: Re: Small 1 pc. rod tapers from GLohkamp@aol.com Wed Dec 11 11:00:09 1996 ; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:00:07 -0600 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:00:06 -0500 Subject: re:binding cord Markl learned from garrisons book which lead me to belive that l needed 12different planes to do the job, it's not true all l use is a block plane.like wise when it came to binding l called every place in town tring tolocate the thread mentioned in the book , when l could'nt find it l did likeyou and used what l had . This is what l learned . first for gluing you canuse almost anything as long as it is not to thick if it is to big you willnot be able to see enough of the rod to determine if there are any twists init. Nylon and polyester (dacron) work ok with exopy glues , the glue do notstick to the thread like it will to cotton, but you should know that theystretch some. For heat treating you must use cotton because nylon andpolyester will leave burn marks on your rod . last thing be sure the threadyou use is strong enough for the job nothing is more madding than to havethethread break during glueing lf you use a garrison style binder it is reallyhard to back out and correct the problem. So if the thread your usingseemsto be doing the job use it.Hope this helps Gary from khube@benmeadows.com Wed Dec 11 11:16:36 1996 LAA11518 for ; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 11:16:34-0600 (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA66522 for ;Wed, 11 Dec 1996 17:16:29 GMT Subject: re:binding cord Markl learned from garrisons book which lead me to belive that l needed 12different planes to do the job, it's not true all l use is a block plane.like wise when it came to binding l called every place in town tring tolocate the thread mentioned in the book , when l could'nt find it l did likeyou and used what l had . This is what l learned . first for gluing you canuse almost anything as long as it is not to thick if it is to big you willnot be able to see enough of the rod to determine if there are any twistsinit. Nylon and polyester (dacron) work ok with exopy glues , the glue do notstick to the thread like it will to cotton, but you should know that theystretch some. For heat treating you must use cotton because nylon andpolyester will leave burn marks on your rod . last thing be sure the threadyou use is strong enough for the job nothing is more madding than to havethethread break during glueing lf you use a garrison style binder it is reallyhard to back out and correct the problem. So if the thread your usingseemsto be doing the job use it.Hope this helps Gary========================================================================= Mark............... Gary is right.......be creative. Don Anderson up inAlberta sent me off to the local craft store this spring to locate somemacrame thread. I found something close enough in cotton for a lowcost......works great. I have also used Coats & Clark's quilting thread forlight sections....also readily available and cheap. The Coats & Clark threadis available in either cotton or polyester. The polyester is stronger unlessyou are going into the oven....it melts and marks the cane !! Press on Regardless !!! Karl Hube from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Dec 11 12:10:20 1996 ; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 12:10:18 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 13:10:18 -0500 Subject: Re: binding cord In a message dated 96-12-10 21:25:39 EST, you write: In short: why can't I use more commonly available thread for heat-treating? Mark - A friend of mine uses a Bob Millwood made binder that arrivedequipedwith cotton sewing thread which works just fine for him.Regards,RTyree from lostrivr@im4u.net Wed Dec 11 14:01:41 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA25585 for; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 14:01:39 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA01382 for; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 15:52:09 -0500 Subject: Re: El Primo Cork!!!!!! At 10:11 PM 12/9/96 +0000, you wrote:lostrivr@im4u.net wrote: I have just received some cork rings from John Bradford, a fellowrodmaker.I am so excited that I have to pass this on.....it would have been in thelatest issue of Planing Form Newsletter but it went to print before thecorkarrived.John called me awhile ago and we talked cork availability andquality.John told me he had around 4000 rings in his stockpile and wanted tosellsome. I was interested in seeing some and he sent enough for 2 grips. WHENTHEY ARRIVED I WAS PLEASANTLY SURPRISED. THE BEST CORK I HAVESEEN FOR SOMETIME.]Here's John Bradford's Numbers phone: 817-292-3324 fax 817-263-4404John is not a computer kind of guy that is why I am posting this. I didnotwant to wait until the next newsletter to spread the word. Ron Barch If you need cork rings in small quanities, you need to contact JohnBradford. Yes the price is high, but the cork I've purchased in thepast, I would only use 40%. The 100 pieces I got from John, I'll use allbut three. It's a great value and John is only selling 1000 pieces. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything coEEFktop Folder:Symantec MPW PP4:Worsoarings.ppt - SoaringoSLD3SLD3PPT3lw"aWERQ֟Q[x x[ [x Priority: Normal Subject: re:binding cord Gary Your problem with cord breaking during binding isprob caused by too much tension on it. I have found thatthe cause of it is probdrag on the cord bobin itself. I have nowmodified my binder to eliminate the problem. I can nowadjust the tension accurately and have no more problemswith breakage or twists. I have promised Ron Barch an article on Masteringthe Mysteries of the Garrison Binder. I hope to cover a lotof the little things that can cause big headaches. Chris from mrj@seanet.com Wed Dec 11 18:43:10 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA14544 for; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 18:43:09 -0600 Subject: Re: binding cord In message writes:Perhaps this one has already been around the block but: I did a binding test to check thread strength in the heat-treating oven inwhich I used ordinary cotton sewing thread (I believe it was "emerald green").I bound two dowels using 1 pound thread tension and placed the bounddowels inthe oven at 375 for 7 minutes. I cannot see that the thread tension isanyless after the trip through the "burning ring of fire" (to quote Johnny Cash).This came up after I priced a spool of 16/4 cotton thread at about $36. Can this be right? Safe? (Democratic?) In short: why can't I use more commonly available thread for heat-treating? You can use Oupholstery thread" which can be found at any sewing store.Iuse the"Coats" brand Just make sure that any thread that you use is at leastcotton covered. If you use nylon or some other synthetic, it may melt or discolorthe rod if you go to heat it following the glue up. Also, the cotton will shrink just a little bit from the moisture in the glue, there by retaining tensionon the glued up section. Martin Jensen from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Dec 11 20:22:22 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA17165 for ;Wed, 11 Dec 1996 20:22:21 - 0600 Subject: Re: GLUE At 01:47 PM 12/11/96 PST, you wrote:This is my inaugural post, I've been sitting by the way side reading themessages as they go by. Now I have a question. I'm in the process of restoring an H-IGovenor and need to re-glue a few sections. I've been trying to locate Resorcinol andURAC 185 but no one seems to carry these in my area. This is my first attempt at doinganything with a cane rod, and I'm at a showstopper currently. If anyone has anysuggestions as to where I can obtain one of these glues in California I would appreciate theinput. The Garrison book says you can use a thinned Elmer's white glue, can I usethisif I can't find another source? Thanks in advance, John Pearce John Resorcinol should be available at almost any builders supply store.Urac is not readily available except as a mail order item from NelsonPaintCo. If you had followed the postings here for any length of time you willsee big arguments over the relative merits. If you are just regluingdelaminations, try Titebond II; it is water resistent has an excellentbond, but should be tightly clamped for best results. A rod binder issufficientRalph Moon> from ddm7t@faraday.clas.virginia.edu Wed Dec 11 23:36:03 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23072 for; Wed, 11 Dec 1996 23:36:02 -0600 12 Dec 96 0:34 EST (8.7.6/8.6.6) id AAA466794 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Dec1996 00:34:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Small 1pc. rod tapers Chris, I live in Nellysford, well, actually near Nellysford which isat the bottom of the hill from Wintergreen. Middle of thestate, about 2 mi. from Stoney Creek and the Rockfish River. I've seen one of the Carlos-built rods at Jim's fly and tacklein Charlottesville but I haven't had the pleasure of casting orfishing with any. Dave from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Dec 12 11:54:48 1996 JAA13891 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 09:54:36 - 0800 Subject: Splitting culms... Folks, I am having a problem getting straight splits when I attempt tosplitmy culms. I think that I am following the directions in Wayne's book andthe other sources of information on the net, but my results have been lessthan satisfactory. Instead of a split remaining straight as it crosses a node, it will 'rotate'--that is, the angle will go from 7 1/2 degrees to 30 or more! Needless tosay,this causes me to have to either lose the strip, or to do a lot of planing onthe side. Sometimes, the split wanders to one side or the other, and I endup with strips that are too narrow to use. After smoothing down the nodes using the method in Wayne's book, myprocess goes something like this: 1. Split the culm down the center, using the drying slit as a guide, intotwoequal pieces. Remove the diaghrams all the way to the pith2. Flame the culm halves.3. Mark the culm halves into 12 equal sections each.4. Using a lock-back knife with a 5" blade, I make the splits as outlinedin the book It's at this point that I run into trouble. Do any of you folks out therehave any words of wisdom about what I can do to reduce the amount ofwastedcane? HELP!! Thanks,Roger from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Dec 12 12:55:11 1996 MAA20964 for ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 12:55:10-0600 (8.8.2/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA88960 for ;Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:55:06 GMT Subject: Binder Mysteries Chris............ The publishing of "Mysteries" would be a great service. My own strugglehasincluded getting better weight calibrations and I am inclined to think thatthe Garrison book recommendations are too heavy. This observation basedonthe twist problem.....not starved joints. My binding cord tensioners are notup to par yet, either. Any data on these devices would help cut down on thelearning curve with "real" rods. Why is it that the binder works perfectlywhen you run a practice dowel through and chokes when you have a stickyrodin it.....cruel !!! Karl Hube from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Dec 12 15:26:54 1996 ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 15:26:52 -0600 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: splines that curl Hi all. I have had problems when I am planing a final taper on my splinesin that they start to 'curl' up out of the forms. The block planepushes them back into the form so everything is OK. These splineswere heat treated and were fairly straight before I started to planethem. This is rather annoying, any suggestions about what is happening? Perplexed,Jerry Ballardballard@zen.wes.army.mil from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Dec 12 17:42:17 1996 ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 17:42:16 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:42:15 -0500 Subject: So That's Why ???? I have often said that I'm simply sharing the mistakes that I make orcome up along the way. Here's the latest. Earlier I did a post about someadvertising that I was doing. WELL because of an apparent subscriptionglishI didn't get to see the finished ad that I had placed in Angler's Journal.Well in the bill for the second running there was a copy inserted. Imaginemydisbelief when I breezed through it only to see that my phone number waswrong. Apparently in the transition form my originals to the Mac systemused people calling a rather grumpy neighbor of mine. After several phone callsover that past few days I have only been able to talk to the answeringperson. Maybe their return calls are being taken by my grumpy neighbor. Wayne from cparham@crocker.com Thu Dec 12 18:15:49 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA00937 for; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:15:48 -0600 rmc1.crocker.com (8.7.6/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA27078 for; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:14:10 GMT Organization: Judd Wire, Inc. Subject: Re: Nickel Silver tube John Zimny wrote: I have, just this day, come upon a limited source of nickel silver tubein the following dimensions:.650 ID, .810 OD and .700 ID, .860ID. Itwill be available around $15 per foot. I think it most suitable forthose who make their own reel seats. It is thick enough to thread with afairly large thread. If you contact me, I'll pass along the address toyou.JohnIs the nickel silver tube a nickel\silveralloy or a silver plated nickelor what? Eric Parham from lostrivr@im4u.net Thu Dec 12 18:31:00 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA01258 for; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:30:53 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA17485 for; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:21:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Has any body been fishing the last two weeks? At 11:33 PM 12/7/96 -0500, you wrote:lostrivr@im4u.net wrote: At 09:01 PM 12/6/96 -0500, you wrote:William Hensel wrote: Hello Brian,At a boy...JG is a good read and really refects my style offishing and life in general. I have all his books and intend onreading them slowly this winter...which really hasnt be felt yet inthefront ranch.Keep warm and give her a nice little pinch. By the way where ishome ? Regards, Mile High Bill Bill, Western Michigan. I'm 2+ hours from the AuSable (if I'm confident thefuzzbuster is working and the deer aren't moving around too much), 1.5h from the PM. It's not right on the water, but close enough to get outafter work once daylight savings time kicks-in. Brian > Brian, Lets Go Fishin Sometime or just talk rods and big fish. I am 30minutes South of GRand Rapids. Ron B Ron, I'D like that. Do you do any winter steel head fishing? It's not realpredictable (to me, at any rate) but getting out is always better thanstewing in the cabin. Brian > Hi Brian,Yes I like winter steelhead fishing. Last year got skunked on theMuskegon during the January thaw. Year before my partner hooked a 2 footbrown that looked as if it had just spawned out. We were on the PM aboutDec.27th ???I must admit I do not use cane for winter fishing but I know guys whodo.Keep in touch. Ron B.> from cparham@crocker.com Thu Dec 12 18:38:50 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA01428 for; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:38:49 -0600 rmc1.crocker.com (8.7.6/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA28019 for; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:37:12 GMT Organization: Judd Wire, Inc. Subject: planes I have a STANLEY 12.5 degree block plane can I use this to plane bamboo? from GLohkamp@aol.com Thu Dec 12 18:46:10 1996 ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:46:09 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:46:08 -0500 Subject: Re: binding cord Chris l did notice that my tensioner is giving me problems ,lt has a mind of itown. l use a tensioner that came from a sewing machine and sometimes itwants totighten on it's own .l've solved that problem and now the problem is gluegetting on the thread before it enters the tensioner , because the glue isonmy hands ect, l 'am going to install a wet sponge that the thread will runacross ahead of the tensioner. anyway lf you have some better ideas formyproblems l would be happy to hear them . also what type of tensioner doyouuse ? my tensioner is almost compeletly incased in the housing makingcleaning it on the spot difficult . thanks gary from GLohkamp@aol.com Thu Dec 12 18:53:20 1996 ; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 18:53:19 -0600 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 19:53:18 -0500 Subject: re: heat treating l would like to ask the list what temprature and lenght of time they heattreat ? l think it would be interesting to see what the range is . l heattreat bound rough strips for 50 min, at 350 deg. thanks gary from cparham@crocker.com Thu Dec 12 20:27:26 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03391 for; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 20:27:24 -0600 rmc1.crocker.com (8.7.6/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA32462 for; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 21:25:47 GMT Organization: Judd Wire, Inc. Subject: Forms I have acess to a mill in school and some free titanium and thought I mighttry to make metal forms. Would it make a difference if I made planing forms out thisor is aluminun or any other metal better? I also have a wood shop at home and can makeforms out of maple. I am new to this but have followed the letters for some time now. Eric ParhamMontague City, Massachusetts from ddm7t@faraday.clas.virginia.edu Thu Dec 12 22:32:57 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA05270 for; Thu, 12 Dec 1996 22:32:55 -0600 12 Dec 96 23:32 EST (8.7.6/8.6.6) id XAA32706 for RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Thu, 12 Dec1996 23:32:02 -0500 Subject: Thanks Many thanks to Chris, Philip, Ralph, Wayne, Tom, Ron andRichard for your suggestions re. a small 1 pc. rod. With anyluck I hope to be back at the bench soon with taper in hand,well, plane in hand, taper on bench. Thanks. Dave Makel from whensel@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 13 11:43:13 1996 ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 09:43:08 -0800 Subject: What do your wives think of Fly Fishing? This might be kinda fun. I have been a Ham radio Operator for 20 years and have seen lots of hams turn into wimps. The hates radio and therefore the ham has to sneak to his Amature radio Station for a contact...harboring guilt. I told all my wives I was aham when I met them and would be a ham after they were gone. My third wife thinks my hobbies are great either I am home tieing fly, trying to build my first rod or talking to another Ham Radio operator. She says it beats my out at the bars chasing the ladies. Women have always been a weakness of mine. My wife sometimes out fishes me and we camp and fish almost every weekend in the summer.So be honest...what does the girl friend or the wife truely think of Fly fishing. Are you the master of your life or the servant? bet they are some stories of the guy that his wife sold or broke all his rods. Lets have it. Mile High Billbecause there might be another Bill comming on to the seen. from SealRite@aol.com Fri Dec 13 13:08:51 1996 ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:08:49 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:08:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver tube Please Email me the address or send to Craig A. Anderson, 4141 Boulder,Lincoln,NE from SealRite@aol.com Fri Dec 13 13:14:32 1996 ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 13:14:30 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:14:30 -0500 Subject: Re: So That's Why ???? Just wait until you run a calendar, and don't proof the final copy. Our adagent did that once, and printed the previous years calendar. They saylearning is an expensive proposition. information it provides me. I enjoy reading your mail - maybe you shouldwrite a column someday for one of the trade rags. from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Dec 13 14:05:40 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA26888 for ;Fri, 13 Dec 1996 14:05:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Splitting culms... At 09:54 AM 12/12/96 -0800, you wrote:Folks, I am having a problem getting straight splits when I attempt tosplitmy culms. I think that I am following the directions in Wayne's book andthe other sources of information on the net, but my results have beenlessthan satisfactory. Instead of a split remaining straight as it crosses a node, it will 'rotate'--that is, the angle will go from 7 1/2 degrees to 30 or more! Needless tosay,this causes me to have to either lose the strip, or to do a lot of planingonthe side. Sometimes, the split wanders to one side or the other, and I endup with strips that are too narrow to use. After smoothing down the nodes using the method in Wayne's book, myprocess goes something like this: 1. Split the culm down the center, using the drying_rҙ; RQHF4PP40 XSummaryInformation(vCurrent UserIC XfB6@N&,@R`&U" :ZpN(vv& @ P &H"n&"< & $" J@p lr#Bar}|a8B#r//t>.-UR.R.BRVRUlUV- B..R.&&EEt>asRa[Ba)R~})8B[sRDDddt> x}xA. BAV}kdVB.dx}xt>O2RBR~}28B2ORNNnnt>OO.BOVk_VOB._t>rBOr~}O8BrZZyyt>aaA.BAVlZVB.Zaayyt>4EA.4BAWEkNEWB.Nt>'A]RB_R~]}_8BA'RRRt>"T0R"AB"R~0}8BATRYYYYYYt>^ꂚA-^BAWl9WB-9<iAxAA- iBAWl4WxB- 4AAdPPNTPICT(&OcOm)HPfD*+zPnOb @@``@` _@`@vPfd- .$**X//++''_>>[33RR]hh\RR^""YYYYYYW\GGGvvv1117Uoo__333333oooo??JK% 0~|ddd7EXYhhhYDaG[U3I(^RRR`ddf7E R R 鮮PfT23ObAOd(Ob_M,,,,,ddddddddddL UKdUKdUAdUAdUAdL ddddddddddLTddTddTddTddTddAdddddddddd 00Times7 Helvetica9Monotype Sorts;Geneva=_Pft8:HP Brian, Lets Go Fishin Sometime or just talk rods and big fish. I am30minutes South of GRand Rapids. Ron B Ron, I'D like that. Do you do any winter steel head fishing? It's not realpredictable (to me, at any rate) but getting out is always better thanstewing in the cabin. Brian > Hi Brian,Yes I like winter steelhead fishing. Last year got skunked on theMuskegon during the January thaw. Year before my partner hooked a 2footbrown that looked as if it had just spawned out. We were on the PMaboutDec.27th ???I must admit I do not use cane for winter fishing but I know guys whodo.Keep in touch. Ron B.> Ron, Well, Uuh, I don't use cane rods for steelhead (or anything 7 - 8wt and9' or better), I use (blush, cringe)graphite. But my experience withwinter steelhead and michigan salmon doesn't involve much finesse. Mostly chuck and duck with just a running line and about a million feetof backing. Brian from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Dec 13 20:43:27 1996 ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:43:26 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 21:43:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Binder Mysteries In a message dated 96-12-13 11:02:23 EST, you write: The publishing of "Mysteries" would be a great service. Chris - just acquired a Garrison type binder - any info on tuning samewouldbe a big help here, also.Thanks, RTyree from rgriff@tcac.com Fri Dec 13 20:47:06 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA15513 for ;Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:47:05 - 0600 odin.tcac.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id UAA56626 for; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 20:53:23 -0600 Subject: Re: splines that curl In message writes: Hi all. I have had problems when I am planing a final taper on my splinesin that they start to 'curl' up out of the forms. The block planepushes them back into the form so everything is OK. These splineswere heat treated and were fairly straight before I started to planethem. This is rather annoying, any suggestions about what ishappening? Perplexed,Jerry Ballardballard@zen.wes.army.mil Jerry,Speaking as a woodworker, this problem can be helped by taking equalamounts of material off each side of the spline. I realize that you are onlyworking on two sides of the material, but by taking equal amounts off bothsides the curl should be only in one direction, the spline should not twist.Ron Griffithaka Wind knot"The probability of someone watching you is directly proportional to thestupidity of your actions," from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Fri Dec 13 22:19:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA17597 for; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 22:19:13 -0600 #19314) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: wives and FF hi billgoing on 25 yrs and my wife still thinks she problably should commit me. sheis really understanding of FF,tieing, and getting in to building. she hastriedFF but didn't enjoy it. i think the best way to describe her feelings is thattorable encourgment ie its gets me out of the house in the summer and itkeepsme busy in the winter.gerald(jerry)johnsongjflyfsh@uwyo.edu from wfmack@evansville.net Fri Dec 13 22:56:44 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA18280 for; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 22:56:42 -0600 (Smail3.2 #2) id m0vYm9R-000hyXC; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 22:56:41 - Subject: Re: wives and FF GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU wrote: hi billgoing on 25 yrs and my wife still thinks she problably should commit me. sheis really understanding of FF,tieing, and getting in to building. she hastriedFF but didn't enjoy it. i think the best way to describe her feelings isthattorable encourgment ie its gets me out of the house in the summer and itkeepsme busy in the winter.gerald(jerry)johnsongjflyfsh@uwyo.edu Thanks for the note, Jerry. I started by getting the cane maybe 10 years ago, and have gotten as far as doing he drilling and tapping for a Wayne Catenach-style planing form, but am stuck on getting the tops smooth and even so I can do the groove. Soemone suggested a belt sander (and after maybe 10 hours of filing--which seems longer than that) I have asked for one for Christmas. My fear is the slight nonconcentricity when drilling out the shoulder bolt portion of the holes will prevent the thing from oppening and closing completely evenly--but I have more bars of 3/4 cold-rolled if that turn out to be the case, and a positng a while back spells out an easier way todo ths without use of shoulder bolts---sooooo I'll get there eventually. Bill Mack from whensel@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 13 23:50:08 1996 ; Fri, 13 Dec 1996 21:49:59 -0800 Subject: Re: wives and FF Dear Jerry,Thanks for the responce sounds like you have a preety intelligent wife there. Mile High Bill from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Dec 14 00:30:46 1996 ; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 00:30:43 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:30:42 -0500 Subject: Re: What do your wives think of Fly Fishing? I started flyfishing at age 13, Stanley Shick taught me how - he and hiswife Hazel were good friends with my folks. In fact Hazel was my dadsniecebut the same age. That year my mother started a battle with cancer and Ispent the summer with Hazel and Stanley. They lived in Gladwin nearCedarCreek and Stanley and I fished it many times that year. Stanley had guidedinhis younger days and had a few 'old' fly rods. That was where I got myCatskill Fairy. Then when I was 15 my mother died and flyfishing becamemyescape. The day I lost the Leonard some 17 years later I relived thosesamefeelings. Stanley never saw me finish my book - he had a fatal heartattackopening day of 92. Hazel is guardian of the first fly rod I ever made.So I have been flyfishing since before my wife and I met and that goesback aways as well - we dated in high school some 30 years ago. Nowhavingbeen married for 23 years 'Ben' is just starting her flyfishing adventure.Orat least she is going with us more. It seems that the kids and I share theexcitement. And as we see the day that they will be around less - thequestion of what Ben and I are going to have in common at that time hascomeup lately in some of our quiet moments.If you haven't picked up on it in various past posts - flyfishing isquite serious with 3/4 of our family and most of our close friends. I oncethought about how much in dollar value a person could cram into and hitchonto a sport utility vechicle. Believe me we have rather complete 'TroutSuits'. But somehow I have escaped getting the tile floor in the kitchendoneafter some 16 years. Ben is a patient women.However over the years, many of her important images of our familyhavecome true. Some of the list members know it but for those who don't wehadproblems having a second child. After 3 miscarriages Ben was shattered.Sheis from a family of 7 and having a second ourselves was really importanttoher. Then one June afternoon we set in Detroit Metro awaiting a flightwhichoriginated in Korea. And as I watched Ben take Lyndi and hug her for thefirst time - all that I had read about the differances between men's andwomen's needs became clearer. She claims to see the same emotion in mewhenI'm on the stream.And the horizon is looking bright as well. Last year Ben finally wentwith me to one of the many shows that I attend. Don't look for her inSomerset or DC though - she hates long nonstop driving. And she doesclaimthe sport seat of a riverboat now and then - the Queen of The River Seat asshe calls it - the person in the back, me, does all the work you see. As Bill pointed out there are worse situations in life. Ben sees themand has to deal with them occassionally - she's a nurse in the local healthcare clinic and worse before that she worked emergency room on thirdshift tryand be what the lifemate has an image of - so every so often the pendilumneeds to swing back towards center. If all goes well I'll have the tile down Wayne from DIXALEE@aol.com Sat Dec 14 01:31:42 1996 ; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:31:41 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 02:31:40 -0500 Subject: Re: planes THe Stanley 12.5 has a tendency to lift the bamboo a bit worse than thestandard 20 degree planes. It also does not dig as hard into,the forms ifthey are not dressed smoothly.You can add a 12.5 plane to your stable but you have to have a 20 to startwith.A.J.ThramerYES! I am back. from DIXALEE@aol.com Sat Dec 14 01:42:48 1996 ; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 01:42:46 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 02:42:46 -0500 Subject: Re: splines that curl Jerry,How many passes do you make before flipping the strip? Depending on thephase of planing I am in I will flip every third pass to start with and workdown to a single pass when I am working off the last .010".A.J.Thramer from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sat Dec 14 06:33:10 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA27525 for; Sat, 14 Dec 1996 06:33:06 -0600 Sat, 14 Dec 1996 20:32:58 +0800 (WST) Subject: Wives and hobies What does my wife think of me ff'ing and rodmaking?If I must engage in these lunitic fringe activities, at least it's betterthan building one wooden boat after another. Rods take up a *lot* lessroomand cost *heaps* less. I might add it's also substantialy more satisfying.FF'ing also gets me and my son out of the house every weekend.All in all, she thinks it great. Boy am I lucky! Tony /*************************************************************************/http://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /*************************************************************************/ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Dec 15 15:12:55 1996 ; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 15:12:54 -0600 RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 16:12:53 -0500 [x3>U3>31?4 1NO11U133>3>3>>3C1311??1UNAU= OAOO?NA?141343!>3>3333134>3>3UN11N???OO;OOAAEA~wrw pywwpwvv~vq87AAA>O5OO&08O♙ 91aE EE ů; ǙE O"EOEOEOřO:O OEOEEOEOOO I have a STANLEY 12.5 degree block plane can I use this to plane bamboo?Sure, But grind the angle on the blade around 42 degrees.John from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Dec 15 16:04:57 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14590 for ;Sun, 15 Dec 1996 16:04:55 - 0600 Subject: Re: splines that curl Jerry Ballard wrote: Hi all. I have had problems when I am planing a final taper on my splinesin that they start to 'curl' up out of the forms. The block planepushes them back into the form so everything is OK. These splineswere heat treated and were fairly straight before I started to planethem. This is rather annoying, any suggestions about what is happening? Perplexed,Jerry Ballardballard@zen.wes.army.mil Hi Jerry, When you remove material, you're releiving stresses previously built up in the material. The can be a problem in any non-normalized material. I would try to make sure that my strips were straight when they went into the oven. Also, I think you can mitigate this problem by cooling the bound strips slowly and allowing a slow accretion of a small amount of moisture before planing the strips. Keep them tightly bound during this process. When all else fails- straighten. The strips won't plane optimally in the non straight condition. Also, the rod sections glued from curving strips tend to be more difficult to straighten. John from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Dec 15 17:21:26 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA16938 for; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 17:21:24 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA22502 for; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 18:20:01 -0500 Subject: Re: planes Has anyone tried the Lie-Nielson skew block plane? from cbogart@ibm.net Sun Dec 15 18:02:19 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA17727 for ;Sun, 15 Dec 1996 18:02:18 - 0600 sherman.shentel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA27582 for; Sun, 15 Dec 1996 19:04:19 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Splitting culms... Richard. The method of using a froe in the vise is a goodmethod that gives you complete control of the splitingprocess. I was never good at the freehand method soI always used this way. The method works like this.Start a split at the top of a strip.Put the split into the blade of the froe in the vise.The front hand near the froe is for guiding thestrip - you can put left or right preasure on it to straightenthe split. The rear hand pushes the strip. This method goes very quickly and does give good strips. Chris from RHeller@swri.edu Sun Dec 15 20:49:49 1996 Subject: re: Wives and FF After a few years of FF, I tried a different tact. I convinced my wife to flyfish with me. After several sessions trying my best to teach her tocast, I got tired of being yelled at. So, the next family visit to a Colorado guest ranch presented an oppurtunity I could not pass by. I enrolled mywife in private FF casting lessons. LET SOMEONE ELSE GET YELLED AT I thought. I sent her to the lessons with my favorite (at the time) rod and reel (a4wt 8'9" Winston and Orvis CFO reel) [this was before casting cane]. I talkedto the instructor after the lessons. He commented that she did very well in a short period of time, but the reel was "strung" backwards and so he haddone me the courtesy of restringing it. It seems that my wife naturally casts right handed and retrieves left handed -- I have never mastered a left hand retrieval. Though she insists on counting fish (and comparing "caught ratios"), and trying to correct my casting style (that's not how Bill said to do it!), and cussing unmercifully at missed strikes, she is a great occassional fishing partner. She insists that I tie all her flies -- even tells me what pattern, how many and when she wants them. "I need 6 more of those grey body,striped wing things right after lunch!" is her way to tell me to skip lunch and tie half a dozen Adams. She does not understand my attraction to cane. Furthermore, she does not understand my desire to begin building my own cane rods. She believesshe has a perfectly good rod (it used to be my Winston) and there is no reasonto build any more. -.Robert.- from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mon Dec 16 07:36:16 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA07989 for; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:36:15 -0600 Subject: ferrules Just to make sure: the ferrule size refers to I.D. of the part that fits onthe blank, right? I don't want to order a whole pile of these in the wrongsizes. -- Mark M. Freedfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from dmichels@usitc.gov Mon Dec 16 09:24:05 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA14280 for; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:23:52 -0600 Subject: sawing versus splitting I read the comment about flaming the culm halves before splitting. How long are they flamed? How hot? Is that the same temperature for regular heat treatment before gluing? I have a band saw and was considering sawing rather than splititng. Sawing with a band saw creates a very narrow kerf and there wouldn't be muchloss due to cutting. The table would have to be tilted but I would have to fiddle with it to get the angle on target. Has anyone considered using such a process? dave m.michels@usitc.gov from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Mon Dec 16 09:47:54 1996 ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 09:47:50 -0600 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: splines that curl Thanks for all the suggestions about the splines. Here is a bitmore additional information. 1) Before curling became a problem I was planing two passes and flipping. 2) The splines were bound, baked for 7 min at 375? (I don't havemy notes with me now), and layed on my workbench for about2 months. The humidity level was about 60-70 percent atthat time in the workshed. 3) The curling was linear, no spiraling problem at all. 4) Gluing the splines together was a pain. I should have re-straightenthem first. And yes the final result does have a noticable *yuck*jump to it. I'm sure it is still fishable. :-) I'll find outthis spring. Possible reasons: 1) Stress relief (thanks to Martin Jensen). I think I can see it like this:________ ===========____-------------------- where the (---) represents the fiber of thecaneand the taper cut by the plane would make the stress relief go upwards.(sorry it's a bad ASCII drawing). 2) Un-even planing. No explanation necessary (thanks A.J. Thamer - welcome back to the list) 3) Weird cane. Nice thing about building cane rods. If something goeswrong you can always blame the cane. ;-) 4) Have you noticed that on cover of Garrison's book the tip of hisspline is slightly in the air over his form? -Jerry Ballard (I think there are at least three Jerrys on the list)ballard@zen.wes.army.mil from whensel@ix.netcom.com Mon Dec 16 09:55:42 1996 dfw-ix1.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA29817 for; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 07:55:35 -0800 Subject: re: Wives and FF Hello Robert,Guess the answers are in the book "Men are from mars and Women are from venus" I am truely just laughing.My wife is a good solid philosphical FF and body counts are not important. In fact sense I have moved to fishing mainly Dry flys yes even on winter days she does occassionally catch more fish than I do she has a knack for nymphs. I also tie all her flyss but I have found about six basic patterns that work here and thats all I give her.I keep the new or other patterns to myself mainly because I just dont want to give all my time on the vise to her. There are persoanl reason for that.She is 33 and I am 44 I just closed down my business all 20 years and eek out a little money from Franchises I have created my goal was that I would retire before 45 so I did. However, I have my share of personal problems that might be comming from mid life crises. In fact I am reading the book "Fishing through mid life crises" in hopes that i can understand what changes I am going through.Let me put it this way the best sex I have is out on a stream which is a pretty sad statment. I dont want to miss out on it or fishing but what can I say sex with my second wife was great but was existense of living in a war zone. My third marrige has a 13 year old step daughter I guess that puts it out there doesnt it.Today I am thinking of going farther into debt and get a popup camper to put on my little Dodge Dakata. At least if the marrige doesnot work out I can have roof oer my head. The building a rod came into play because I knew after teaching and practicing Kenpo karate for 25 years I would need a challenge to keep my hands busy. I retired little over a weekago and there are days that my brain flips out. The only things I can say is that The wife goes to work and the kids go to school and I am left alone to figure out the thing call mid life. I want mid life with sex, and flyfishing ..but if one has to go I would rather be alone with a popup and a bambo rod in my hand standing in the middle of a trout stream.Iam I going nuts. did I go nuts? Is there anyone who can relate to my scream? regards, Bill Hensel from LANE@dsa.unt.edu Mon Dec 16 11:06:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA21329 for; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 11:06:06 -0600 Mon, 16 Dec 96 11:06:06 -600 -600 Subject: re: Wives and FFPriority: normal Bill H., (Bill, I counsel for nickel-silver ferrules and reel-seats..... so my 2 Cents worth- no, thats what it's worth WITH inflation, so please excuse my waxing philosophical this morning).... Isn't Flyfishing is supposed to lessen the severity of the midlife crisis- if that's possible? The midlife crisis is a little like male menopause, except instead of pure hormonal crises, it's more of a philosophical (or for some- religious) crisis that occurs. Hhummmm, (I say while stroking my go-tee, ala Freud) You sound like the kind of guy who has thrived on challenges (who else would try to build bamboo rods??!), and if you're retired early, it's obvious you will have to create a new challenge for yourself.... ...some men make the challenge the 22 year old babe at work (been there, done that, and that and that), others make it MORE money (shoulda done this instead), a new career, finding ways to give to the next generation, etc. You know, I'm beginning to believe that if we don't age gracefully (whatever the hell that means), I think it's because we don't accept (or appreciate) reality well....perhaps we have regrets. I hear some men are having as much plastic surgery as Fashion models in New York......to maintain the illusion of youth- they must not flyfish!. I think I'll spend my money instead on more important things, and try to keep young at heart, while appreciating the wisdom age brings. (I still can't bring myself to appreciate RAP music though...) Come on...isn't wisdom just the ability to keep things in perspective??? Flyfishing, and I think pursuing the arts of various kinds- including bamboo- zling, help us keep things in perspective and appreciate simple pleasures. (I liken this to Chaos theory- which touts a view that things are actually simpler if you move up to the bigger picture...) Fortunately, My wife doesn't flyfish, but does enjoy places where trout are found- she hikes, reads, etc.!!! It saves me $$$, and I enjoy her company more because..well....she let's me off the leash just long enough to indulge my "mistress" on stream. If your wife is jealous of this "mistress", then hope she cultivates the view "It doesn't matter where you get your appetite, as long as you come home for dinner!). Adios....I'm procrastinating doing those wraps! Keep the coffee pot on.Tim Hello Robert,Guess the answers are in the book "Men are from mars and Women are from venus" I am truely just laughing.My wife is a good solid philosphical FF and body counts are not important. In fact sense I have moved to fishing mainly Dry flys yes even on winter days she does occassionally catch more fish than I do she has a knack for nymphs. I also tie all her flyss but I have found about six basic patterns that work here and thats all I give her.I keep the new or other patterns to myself mainly because I just dont want to give all my time on the vise to her. There are persoanl reason for that.She is 33 and I am 44 I just closed down my business all 20 years and eek out a little money from Franchises I have created my goal was that I would retire before 45 so I did. However, I have my share of personal problems that might be comming from mid life crises. In fact I am reading the book "Fishing through mid life crises" in hopes that i can understand what changes I am going through.Let me put it this way the best sex I have is out on a stream which is a pretty sad statment. I dont want to miss out on it or fishing but what can I say sex with my second wife was great but was existense of living in a war zone. My third marrige has a 13 year old step daughter I guess that puts it out there doesnt it.Today I am thinking of going farther into debt and get a popup camper to put on my little Dodge Dakata. At least if the marrige doesnot work out I can have roof oer my head. The building a rod came into play because I knew after teaching and practicing Kenpo karate for 25 years I would need a challenge to keep my hands busy. I retired little over a weekago and there are days that my brain flips out. The only things I can say is that The wife goes to work and the kids go to school and I am left alone to figure out the thing call mid life. I want mid life with sex, and flyfishing ..but if one has to go I would rather be alone with a popup and a bambo rod in my hand standing in the middle of a trout stream.Iam I going nuts. did I go nuts? Is there anyone who can relate to my scream? regards, Bill Hensel from gord@teleport.com Mon Dec 16 12:01:01 1996 MAA24762 for ; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 12:00:56-0600 desiree.teleport.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA21977 for with SMTP id KAA25740 for ; Mon, 16 Dec Subject: Re: sawing versus splitting At 10:15 AM 12/16/96 EST, you wrote:I read the comment about flaming the culm halves before splitting. How long are they flamed? How hot? Is that the same temperature forregular heat treatment before gluing? I don't know how hot my flame is. I use a burnzomatic torch with theregular nozzle - haven't upgraded to the high output one Wayne advocatesyet. It's MUCH hotter than the 300 or so degrees I heat treat with. Iflame until the cane is black. Remember that you're flaming the enamelandthat the cane under that enamel won't be so dark. It's a bit tricky, I'lladmit. It's hard to judge shades of black and one can and I have been alittle heavy on the heat and ended up with black marks on the finished rod. I have a band saw and was considering sawing rather than splititng. Sawing with a band saw creates a very narrow kerf and there wouldn't be muchloss due to cutting. The table would have to be tilted but I would have to fiddle with it to get the angle on target. Has anyone considered using such a process? Production rod makers of the past cut their strips. Garrison talks aboutthe importance splitting rather than sawing to retain the grain the lengthof the strips - no cross cut fibers. In Colorado Classic Cane there arelots of reprints of old Grainger advertisements. Many of them point outthefact that Graingers were split not sawn as a selling point. Whether or notyou feel there's a real advantage to not having cross cut fibers from astrength perspective I think you'd find planing against the grain wouldresult in a lot of lifts and tears. Cheers,Gord from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Mon Dec 16 13:02:09 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28442 for ;Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:02:08 - 0600 SVR4) (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA097042776; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 10:59:36 -0800 Organization: r-5113 Subject: hot air gun Who makes the best hot air gun for heat treating cane, both used in a hot air oven and for straightening nodes and kinks? Other than it makes them easier to the carry as a three piece rod I dont understand why you would want the extra weight and action inhibiting the second ferrule costs you. patrick from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Dec 16 13:20:02 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29429 for; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 13:20:01 -0600 with BSMTP id 6688; Mon, 16 Dec 96 14:19:06 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 8077; Mon, 16 Dec1996 14:19:06 -0500Subject: splitting bits Thanks Ralph, The original message was garbled and thecritical word "bit" was absent. So you refinish spadebits. I have several lying around, never use themmuch but now they just might have a purpose. Bob from lostrivr@im4u.net Mon Dec 16 17:17:09 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA12781 for; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 17:17:02 -0600 quark.im4u.net (8.8.2/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA28145 for; Mon, 16 Dec 1996 19:07:27 -0500 Subject: re: Wives and FF At 08:36 PM 12/15/96 CST, you wrote:After a few years of FF, I tried a different tact. I convinced my wife to flyfish with me. After several sessions trying my best to teach her tocast, I got tired of being yelled at. So, the next family visit to a Colorado guest ranch presented an oppurtunity I could not pass by. I enrolled mywife in private FF casting lessons. LET SOMEONE ELSE GET YELLED AT Ithought. I sent her to the lessons with my favorite (at the time) rod and reel (a4wt 8'9" Winston and Orvis CFO reel) [this was before casting cane]. I talkedto the instructor after the lessons. He commented that she did very well ina short period of time, but the reel was "strung" backwards and so he haddone me the courtesy of restringing it. It seems that my wife naturally casts right handed and retrieves left handed -- I have never mastered a lefthand retrieval. Though she insists on counting fish (and comparing "caught ratios"), and trying to correct my casting style (that's not how Bill said to do it!), and cussing unmercifully at missed strikes, she is a great occassionalfishing partner. She insists that I tie _rҙ; 35 !"#$%&'()*+,- ./012RQHF"44PP40 `aSummaryInformation(vCurrent UserI@ a`f?@6vvv&@:zz`z&/" "BXp FT SD&U`@UUUNU&W"W:W\WtWtWtWt&W"WW W,W,W,W,&W"XX8XJXZXtX0XzY\~8X~6T~2P~0L~.F~*B~(~ 0~ .~,~(~$~ ~^^^^U^ ^O^I^E^^,^^/U^^`O^_E^,^^<^^^"^_^R^R^R^R^"^^/^<^^,^E^|I^zO^xU^v^^r^p^n^n^n ^n^n^n^n^n^r ^v$^z$^~(^*^*^*^.^0^4^8^:^:^:^:^~>~~B~F~J~N~N~P~R~V~Z~^~b~d~f~f~|f~xf~tf~pd~l`~h^~d\~`X~^R~^N~^J~^F~^@~^@zB~BD֘DǘHJNPRVZ^`,^`EIU/,EIOUU^UUUIOIIEI,E,,,,/,Ea"ܯǯ$(,04:ǯ>ܯBѯJLP|TvZr\l`hbdd`f\h\dVdRfNhJlFnDrBv8~40,$" 寧 ^OIE,<``"A ~zv߯tpfۯbϯ^ZVLHD@>:66666 4R4"8`BFLP"V$Z$^&b&f&j(n(r(v(~(*..024444444444444A4_4`68<:>>>> >>,B,F(H$J$N"RRTTVVVVVVUXXI\I`IdEhElrv,z,~/BߘDDϘDFHLPTZ^``Ϙbۘfhjlpr tRv"z~/ĘEEIIOOOOU^똁AR"/ ,EIU $&*. 2 68LNPT X"Z&^(b*f,j2n4t8zBBBDDFH LAN"NJ/F:662E2I.O,U(U&&$$$$ $&*,.$.(2*6,:.>0B2F2N4R6Z6^6f4j4n2r2v2x.|*~&"Ā ^Uį~OzIvEt,rn<ѯǯ߯ϯ믁 R__`,:6E2I2*U(^$ ^$^(U.O2O8Ob:`6`2^.Z*Z&X"TRPPPPPPPPUPPIPER,RR/RR"RRV X\`bfjnvzǰܣ֣|xtplhd`\XTNJ~DzBv@p2@.B*F&H"NRT X ZVRNJFB>:4 0 , ( ^ U O IE,/"^RUAE럟<"R ۟۟۟ϟ큟 R"<EU埰 ǟܟ֟ğ|z t"p"j"f"b"\"X"R N JFB@B۟DJLPTZ^bfjnrxǟ|ܟܟܟܟџџ֟֟~zvrnjd`ZVNJFBX:T8P6N2L.H*D(@"_BRD HJLLLLLLLLLJFD@>:60,& ğUOIE,/і_A2bVbf h$l(l,p.t2x4|666:阘:40,(($I E","$<(/,,"2`6_8A6 : @ F H%" J8""""""&$*$.(0*4.62888 : 6 2 . * *(&"7 tF""" " "$("(&**,.0206486BBFFFJFNFTFXF\FbDfDjDnDrBt:t6t0t*t&t"rlhfb` \ X T P PLFB,DEFIHILNURRVVXX XXXVV V$V(V,V2V6T:R>PBNFLHHJDL>L:L6L2H.F*B(@$BFFJ JNRTTVUVVITETRP/NN`R_TRZ ZZ^bfjnptx|~ĘĘ|xtplhd^ZXVRPNNNJFBB>>@@@@BFAH_J`JHD@/BD9>I"E"""<""`&_(_,_0_4R8 888844226::62,($"  ۘۘߘؘA_`/pBlFfFbH^HZHVFTBR>R:R6T2X2\2^.b,f*j(n((߯&&$ϯ$"߯߯߯߯ ߯ۯ "$($Dr nllnۯnnlhhfدb ^ X T P L HدFDD߯DDHۯLۯNPTVXZ^bfjnr֘`/ۖ"RRRRR AA_""///<,EIIOUUU^럮^A^"UOO:62.*& EOU^ "&*.26:>@@@"D"H"HJPVZ^^bfjnrvv x~  $(,048\RBP@L0804000,,,,(&&"&$"($,&0"242.*($ ^UOI"I&I*E.24<6/::"8R8ABAFJNPTXZ\fdhlptz~ǰϰۧϣ|xtplhd`\XXVVZ^bhlnnnnlljd`^ZVRNJFBB>BDDB>:60,($ ܯܯܯ^ѯU֯OIEį,~|/||R| z||||||~~~||鯧֯ܯయѣ֯|zvttܯt֯vx||~xxxxtpppnjfd`\XTPLHFB>:~8~4z2z.v,r*n(l$h"fb^Z"V$R$N&L*H.D0@2鯯BBDH"L$P$T$X"\"`"d&h*l.p.t(x(|(**&"ѯǯ ^^ǟџ^U|xItEljBFJ,N,T,Z,^,`EbIfIjEnEnph܁|xtpnjhhhhhhhlpttx|܀ѧ!HRtxtdpdlfljhlfpdt`x\xXxTvPtNpLlHjHfHbH^HZHVLVPTTTZT^RbRfRjRnXl\p\r`td/OZ$U^ ~z x$v$r$n"h db^\\Z ZZZZ^^b^dUhUlUptx|OOOrp|~t~x~|z|v|rvvtxp|prvj$|"z$v$r$n$j jjjlptx|退|"z2pFDrDvFzF~FDD@rBp8/./..,.E.I,I(O$U"U ^UOIE ^UOIE,EEEI,I,U///// ///// /$/(/,K(N*J0N4N8NZ>^: ::62222"2&2*.,*0*4*8*/:/64`4_4A8A:>[33RR]hh\RR^""YYYYYYW\GGGvvv1117Uoo__333333oooo??JK% - ~|ddd7XYhhhYDaG[U3I(^RRRddd7WXA'O'UI(^W<(B from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Dec 17 21:54:30 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24379 for; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:54:28 -0600 VAA20400 for ; Tue, 17 Dec 1996 21:54:28 Subject: Re: Web version of hexrod Chris, I put in the numbers and it seemed to work for me. Give it one moretry. Or maybe some one else would try your numbers. Let me know eitherway. from the glossary of the Perl Programming Manual:Hubris: ....the quality that makes you write (and maintain) programs that other people won't want to say bad things about. Here is what I got (not formatted very well in ascii): big dog Design Report from Dimensions Point Dimension Stress (F(b)) Rod Parameters1 0.086 62386 Rod Length 10 ft 0 in5 0.098 213284 Action Length 9 ft 2 in10 0.116 261943 Line Weight 915 0.136 248944 Pieces 220 0.156 225257 Line Fished 60 ft25 0.168 231647 Tip Factor 4.75830 0.184 217996 Ferrule Type Standard35 0.198 210837 Ferrule #1 Size 18/64; Wt 0.529 oz.; Loc 60 in40 0.212 20327245 0.230 18587250 0.248 17140455 0.268 15584460 0.288 14327665 0.298 15023670 0.314 14777075 0.326 15078180 0.336 15624985 0.346 16144290 0.362 15827495 0.382 150608100 0.402 144010105 0.427 133543110 0.452 124846--Frank On Tue, 17 Dec 1996, Chris Bogart wrote: Frank I gave your perverted idea a try and gota error on input dimensions that I could not resolve.Is it still in beta? Try this: Big Dog Rod no 1. Length 10'Action length 9' 2"Line 9Wt.Length fished 60'FO%;V4" splats.ppt - SplatterSLD3PPSLD3PPT3lwn EX1<_گa=`"UO {Ow[ⷣX,U9Se"qIqx [x x[ [x Subject: Re: Ferrules In a message dated 96-12-17 21:24:41 EST, you write: Subj: FerrulesDate: 96-12-17 21:24:41 ESTFrom: GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDUSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu After 2 more coats of tung-oil i will be ready start to finish out a cut down6'. i would like to referrule the rod but do not wih to put a lot ofmoneyinto them. i have seen the cheaper ferrules in Angler's Workshop andfromCleamen's but have no experience with them. any ideas or suggestionswould beappriciated. -7 degrees -38 degree WC cabin fever begins Thanksgerald (jerry) johnsongjflyfsh@uwyo.edu Also try Netcraft in Ohio (800) 638-2723 for smaller dia. NPB ferrulesthanwhat Angler's carries. But why not make a new grip/reelseat handle to be used with the mid andtipwhen you want a short rod. Don Burns from MNBHEXROD@aol.com Wed Dec 18 08:05:06 1996 ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:05:04 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:05:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrules If you think the rod will work out for you at all, use he best ferrules youcan get. If you don't and the rod works out great for you, you'll be sorryyou didn't. Classic Sporting Enterprises, Inc. makes some good ones. (802)525- 3623 Mark from MNBHEXROD@aol.com Wed Dec 18 08:15:26 1996 ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:15:25 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 09:15:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Terry Ackland Terry can take the heat. He has been having to deal with the Frenchmen forsome time now. If he can take that heat, a little from the rod builderswon'thurt him. Believe me I know. Mark from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Wed Dec 18 08:47:34 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA10932 for; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 08:47:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrules Is the telephone no. for Classic Sporting Ent. 525-3523 or 525-3623 orboth? thanks, Jim. from devino@inlink.com Wed Dec 18 15:25:22 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA00404 for; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 15:25:21 -0600 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id PAA01136 for Subject: Satisfied CUSTOMER I got my first ever contemporary cane rod a couple weeks ago. I love itcompletely and have put up some pics and a few paragraphs on a web page.Therod was built by Jonathan Clarke (TWIN PINES RODS) and the page is athttp://www.inlink.com/~devino/bamboo.html . -Mark- _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ Mark Devino (devino@mo.net)_/ _/ _/ TROUT UNLIMITED - Ozark Council_/ _/ _/ Meramec Basin chapter - St. Louis_/ _/_/_/_/ www.TroutUnlimited.org from rfairfie@cisco.com Wed Dec 18 16:32:18 1996 OAA27722 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 14:32:07 - 0800 Subject: Re: Splitting culms... To all who have responded, THANK YOU! Your input has been greatlyappreciated.I am now using a wood chisel to make my splits at the nodes beforerunningthe splits between the nodes. I am going to make a splitting board perinput from RTyree, and will probably sacrifice a couple of screw drivers andretirethe wood chisel. Now, are there any words of wisdom (experience) for one who is justabout toembark on final planing on my rough planed strips? Thanks again from this first timer,Roger from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Dec 18 17:51:24 1996 ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 17:51:22 -0600 ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:53:56 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Web version of hexrod Frank Ok - must of done something wrong and thenrepeated the mistake. Didn't know if it didn't likebig rods. Thanks Chris from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Dec 18 18:11:53 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA06897 for ;Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:11:50 - 0600 TAA16194 for ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:11:48 Subject: Web Site Addresses To the List, 12/17/96As a newcomer, I would appreciate being advised about some of the WebSiteaddresses of our fly rod and other FF areas of interest. No X rated stuffplease. I'm getting on in years. Happy holidays. Thanks. Bill Fink from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Dec 18 18:21:20 1996 ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:21:19 -0600 sherman.shentel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA13661 for; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:23:57 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Web version of hexrod Frank I retried and it works - I think the problem wasI inputed the dimensions w/o the "0" in front of thedecimal point. I am a bit lazy - can do it with spreadsheets. Good work gives me a nice clean output report.Needed that. Chris from rfairfie@cisco.com Wed Dec 18 18:23:29 1996 QAA02480 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 16:23:27 - 0800 Subject: Re: Web Site Addresses Bill, a good place to start is http://www.flyshop.com. It has lots of linksto other places of interest to folks with our FF passion. Tight lines,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Dec 18 16:15:56 1996 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: fiveside@net-gate.com (Bill Fink) Subject: Web Site Addresses Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: fiveside@net-gate.comX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3X- Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 246 To the List, 12/17/96As a newcomer, I would appreciate being advised about some of the WebSiteaddresses of our fly rod and other FF areas of interest. No X rated stuffplease. I'm getting on in years. Happy holidays. Thanks. Bill Fink from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Dec 18 18:32:31 1996 ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 18:32:29 -0600 sherman.shentel.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA13708 for; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:35:07 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Web Site Addresses Bill If I had to give you one URL to start with it mustbe Jerry Fosters Rodmakers homepage Http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Have fun surfing. Chris from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Dec 18 19:29:05 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA09343 for; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:29:04 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA30413 for; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 20:27:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Web Site Addresses Hi Bill, The quickest way to oodles of good (and not so good) FF web sites isthrough a search on webcrawler, yahoo, and search.com forFly FishingCane Fly RodsBamboo Fly Rods and visiting the resulting sites and following their links, bookmarkinginteresting sites and coming back to visit them later. If you are using netscape, put your ff links in a seperate folder(s) tosave having to hunt around for them. Good luck and good hunting! Brian > from whensel@ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 18 21:48:47 1996 ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 19:48:42 -0800 Subject: Beginers get the Videos To all beginners such as I be advised:Beg do anything...whatever it takes...purchase Mr. Cattanach twoTape vedio on rod building. I started my project with simply the Garrison book. Great book... the book is a great reference of the state of art at that time. The bamboo hasnt changed but boy oh boy have the tools we have at our disposal changed. If Garrison had heat guns, micro strips, the glues measuring devices etc. he would have been in heaven.I initally straightened my nodes with a oil lamp and finger pressure only. Today I built Mr. Cattanach vise or you could say choped a three inch vise down I bought from sears along with sears Heat Gun and I can only say I wish I had straighted that way. It even fun and boy will you get straight as an arrow nodes.Mr. Cattanach if you read this post. I personally thankyou for you efforts on your book and the tapes. I know the stress of attempting to demonmstrate skills and methods through the development of vedios. My chain of Tracy Karate Studios have used vedios for year to pass on proper technique and theory for years.The inductry background color is Blue and If you would have worn a white shirt you would have been surprised at the outcome. This knowledge I gained from Al Tracy who has made all of our training tapes. Anyhow, you did a super job I almost feel indebted to you and the Masters who have come before you. You are a humble man and the True Masters of an Art Form only see themselves as students or trades men. So I wont call you a master I know the term bothers me but don't be surprised if it gets sent your way some day. One time I had a student of mine say " Mr. hensel you truley are a Master and I replyed if you have spent 25 years of your life practicing a task you to would have some skill also...I am just an effecient student and the basics are easy for me...I am just a student of life.Kinda long winded isnt it. Sincerely, Bill Hensel from MNBHEXROD@aol.com Wed Dec 18 23:12:50 1996 ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:12:48 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:12:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrules Hello Jim,The phone number and address for :CLASSIC SPORTING ENTERPRISE INC.RD# 3, BOX3 ROARING BROOKROADBARTON, VERMONT 05822 Phone: (802) 525-3623Fax: (802) 525-3982 I have been happy with the ferrules that I have received from them, hopethishelps. Take Care,Mark from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 18 23:31:53 1996 ; Wed, 18 Dec 1996 23:31:51 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:31:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Terry Ackland A.J.,Tell Terry I enjoy his British humour and have the same reservationsaboutthe computor that he seems to have. Anyway we need a few iconoclastsherejust to keep us awake.Hank Woolman. from FFer4trout@aol.com Thu Dec 19 00:12:15 1996 ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 00:12:13 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 01:12:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Web Site Addresses In a message dated 96-12-18 19:14:51 EST, you write: Subj: Web Site Addresses Date: 96-12-18 19:14:51 ESTFrom: fiveside@net-gate.com (Bill Fink)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu To the List, 12/17/96As a newcomer, I would appreciate being advised about some of theWebSiteaddresses of our fly rod and other FF areas of interest. No X rated stuffplease. I'm getting on in years. Happy holidays. Thanks. Bill Fink http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm http://HOME1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html http://www.flyshop.com/Chat/index.html (sat. morning chat session) Hope this is a start Don B. from dmichels@usitc.gov Thu Dec 19 08:26:22 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00652 for; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 08:25:00 -0600 Subject: rod rebuilding Col george: The Rapidan I recently acquired is known as a project rod. As such, the wraps are gone although the guides are included if I want them. The ferrules appear to be in good shape and fit verrry tight. So tight, in fact, that I thought they may have suffered some some damage, but theyare not out of round at all. They do, however, have some varnish splashed over and I am not sure whether someone else had put a coat of varnish on or what. Rapidans were of average quality as cane rods go (at least that is what I am told) but this appears to be in rather good shape. The cane is fine, although not flamed or darkened excessively by heat treatment, and the ferrules are good. What I am going to do is replace the cork, and use a better reel seat, and new guides while I am at it.. Hopefully the refinishing experience will give me an idea of how cane rods are constructed, as I plan on purchaisng some tonkin cane in the future for my own rod(s). Where I am in Maryland there aren't too many FF places and I usually order what i need from cabella's in Sydney, Nebraska. from FFer4trout@aol.com Thu Dec 19 11:20:07 1996 ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:20:05 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:19:59 -0500 Subject: Re: rod rebuilding In a message dated 96-12-19 09:27:51 EST, you write: Subj: rod rebuildingDate: 96-12-19 09:27:51 ESTFrom: dmichels@usitc.govSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Col george: The Rapidan I recently acquired is known as a project rod. As such, the wraps are gone although the guides are included if I want them. The ferrules appear to be in good shape and fit verrry tight. So tight,in fact, that I thought they may have suffered some some damage, but theyare not out of round at all. They do, however, have some varnish splashedover and I am not sure whether someone else had put a coat of varnish on or what. Rapidans were of average quality as cane rods go (at least that is what I am told) but this appears to be in rather good shape. The cane is fine, although not flamed or darkened excessively by heat treatment, and the ferrules are good. What I am going to do is replace the cork, and use a better reel seat, and new guides while I am at it.. Hopefully the refinishing experience will give me an idea of how cane rods are constructed, as I plan on purchaisng some tonkin cane in the future formy own rod(s). Where I am in Maryland there aren't too many FF places and I usually order what i need from cabella's in Sydney, Nebraska. The Dale Clemens and the Angler Workshop catalogs are the best one's thatI've found for building FF rod building gear and both have some cane rodbuilding goodies. Dale Clemens - Allentown PA(610) 395-5119 FAX 398-2580 Angler's Workshop - Somewhere in Washington State (360) 225-9445 FAX (800) 278-1069 Also Netcraft has some FF stuff but is just good all-round fishing catalogtohave. They carry a line of cheap ferrules that can be used on Montague rodswithout breaking the bank. Not much better than the original ferrules butfishable rods can be made from rods that aren't worth spending the $30 to$75to buy quality NS ferrules. They've also got a great 8 buck wooden fishingnet. Netcraft - Toledo Ohio(800) 638-2723 FAX (419) 472-8058 See Clemens catalog or others for "Ferrule Lube" used for lubing metalferules. Many tight ferrules are just oxidized or dirty. Read directions onthe bottle. Works wonders!! Just don't get a swap stuck down in the female ferrule like I've done! Also, If interested in proper thread colors for the Rapidan then buy a copyof Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook". Angler's carriesalarge silk thread array in both 3/0 and "A". May all of your Christmas presents be fishable! Don Burns PS - A special Holiday thanks to Tom Smithwick for providing me with aroughplaning form and also my scarfing block. Merry Christmas to all and to allagood night! from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Thu Dec 19 11:40:58 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA12055 for; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 11:40:57 -0600 mail.pilot.net with ESMTP id JAA21223 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA126767634; Thu, 19 Dec 199609:47:14 - 0800 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 2B97EB50; Thu, 19 Dec 9609:43:17 -0800 Subject: Atlas Lathes Hello all, It has been written that there is a parts source for Atlas/Craftsmanlathes (Wayne's book, "Cheap Lathe" chapter). Is there anyone on the list that can point me in the right direction? BTW I found this lathe by posting to this list! The lathe is in great shape and is perfect for turning rod parts. I would like to find a source for spare parts and accessories. One source I have found is other lathe manufacturers (Sherline, Smithy, etc). For example, accessories based upon Morse tapers of the proper size are interchangeable. Many Thanks, L.D.CrossLDCross3@aol.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Dec 19 12:56:25 1996 ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 12:56:23 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:56:16 -0500 Subject: Re: Atlas Lathes The Atlas parts are available from:Clausing Industrial IncService Center811 Eisenhower Dr. SouthP.O. Box 877Goshen, Indiana 46526Phone 219-533- 0371I have not called them for a while, so the area code might have changed. Mylathe is a virtual duplicate of Garrison's and probably goes back to the1930's. All parts are still available except the castings, but pricing isdefinitely 1990's from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Thu Dec 19 13:41:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA18181 for; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 13:41:53 -0600 mail.pilot.net with ESMTP id LAA27806 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA146614890; Thu, 19 Dec 199611:48:10 - 0800 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 2B99AD50; Thu, 19 Dec 9611:43:17 -0800 Subject: Re: Atlas Lathes My Lotus cc:Mail did not report who this message was from, just the list's address. I wanted to follow up and say THANKS! to whoever sent the reply. The number listed below is current. I called, and a catalog and price list is on the way. It appears they do carry parts for the little Craftsman lathes. Mine dates back to the 50's. Tight Lines,L.D.Cross ______________________________ Forward Header__________________________________Subject: Re: Atlas LathesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet The Atlas parts are available from:Clausing Industrial IncService Center811 Eisenhower Dr. SouthP.O. Box 877Goshen, Indiana 46526Phone 219-533- 0371I have not called them for a while, so the area code might have changed. My lathe is a virtual duplicate of Garrison's and probably goes back to the 1930's. All parts are still available except the c_rҙ; RQHFi"4PP40 SummaryInformation(vCurrent UserI@ f?@6vvv&@:zz`z&/" "BXpPjj& @ I IP I& ` r 0 `zv~vUj" " I *xC2IUN ,$^ 0CO4 Ă^_ 0CO4NA^J"^,/7ddLorem IpsumU ,/7ddL>^J^ UnKdDelor sit amet consectetuer adipiscing elit sed diam Nonummy nibh euismod Tincidunt ut Laoreet dolore Magna aliquam Exerci tation ullamcorper suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea com 6 E 6UnKdUKd D_ddD_ddUKdEUnKdr Ăp_ 0Oo  B^p`L s^ dd rO] P >[33RR]hh\RR^""YYYYYYW\GGGvvv1117U{].po U& SKA@EYc pJmc{K# >% - ~|ddd7ZXYhhhYDaG[U3I(^RRR``dd`]逖SX'UW<(?: o{AIҰIPfT/0Oc Ob`Ob_N,,,,,ddddddddddL UnKdUKdD_ddUnAdUAdL ddddddddddLTddTddTddTddTddAdddddddddd 00 Helvetica4p Book Antiqua6Monotype Sorts8Geneva:_Pft57 9;HPFoB; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:59:26 -0600 (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA11548 for ;Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:59:44 - 0600 Subject: Re: Atlas Lathes I down loaded the address of the Clausing Corp off of Rec.Metalworkinglast yearthey have a catalog of parts and accsy available for the Atlas Lathes. Phone 219 533 0371 Clausing Corp. 811 Eisenhower Dr. So.Goshen, Ind. 46526 The article stated that they would sen a catalog free of charge. I downloaded the article for future reference as my own lathe is an atlas, but Ihave not yet needed to contact them and i have no idea as to what theyhaveavailable or at what price. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Dec 19 21:47:12 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10682 for ;Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:47:11 - 0600 Subject: Re: Atlas Lathes Regarding Atlas Lathes. For those who are interested in making ferrules collets are a big help. The Atlas lath takes a 3AT Collet which is as of this moment priced at around $40.00 a pop. One needs at least 10 collets to cover the needed sizes. So much nicer and cheaper are the 5C collets which can be had at $5.00 per. When you look at a machine tool, check out the cost of tooling. Because tooling can end up costing more than the cost of the main tool.John from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Dec 19 21:53:20 1996 ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 21:53:18 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:53:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Beginers get the Videos Bill -Thank You for the kind words and comments about the video. I feel thatthe craft is constantly evolving for the better and that there are MANYthathave added (and are adding) to it. The list here is just another example ofthat advance - over time as you get to hear the comments and if you get achance to see the rods that go with the names you will realize that youarein pretty good company. Best Of Luck With The Adventure Wayne Casnovia,MI from SealRite@aol.com Thu Dec 19 22:20:19 1996 ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:20:18 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 23:20:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Guide feet Hi,My name is Craig, I get to the Denver area about 1 -2 times a month onbusiness. Where is your shop located? I would like to drop by some time. from SealRite@aol.com Thu Dec 19 22:29:30 1996 ; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 22:29:29 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Dec 1996 23:29:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Help for the uninitiated I had mine milled down to .005 and works well - the key is a razor sharpedge from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Fri Dec 20 06:45:13 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA22539 for; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 06:45:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Tubes Biondo" at Dec 19, 96 04:18:18 am I've been looking for a particular rod tube, an unfortunately do notknow who the manufacturer is. The tube I am looking for is analuminium tube, with a black, wrinkle finish paint. It also has abrass, internally threaded top collar, with a knurled, brass screw-oncap. Anyone know where I can order these... Mike - tubeless - Biondo(frozen) St. Louis, Mo. Mike, back in my pre-cane days (daze) I once purchased a tube like the one youdescribe from Powell, although you may not want to pay their premiumprice. Ithink the model is the de luxe.Hope you can find a better source. --Mark M. Freedfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Fri Dec 20 08:08:59 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25348 for; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:08:57 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Rod Tubes ----- Begin Included Message ----- from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Dec 19 15:24:11 1996 Subject: Rod Tubes Content-Length: 364 I've been looking for a particular rod tube, an unfortunately do notknow who the manufacturer is. The tube I am looking for is analuminium tube, with a black, wrinkle finish paint. It also has abrass, internally threaded top collar, with a knurled, brass screw-oncap. Anyone know where I can order these... Mike - tubeless - Biondo(frozen) St. Louis, Mo. ----- End Included Message ----- Mike, I bought one of these from the Classic & Custom Fly Shop. I don'trecall the address. It's somewhere in the New England area. The pricewas pretty reasonable as I remember. Bob MatarazzoMelville, NY from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Fri Dec 20 08:11:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA25430 for; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:11:52 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: Beginers get the Videos ----- Begin Included Message ----- from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Dec 19 20:59:48 1996 Subject: Re: Beginers get the Videos Content-Length: 2150 Where can such a beginner get the Cattanach videos? Thanks. Bill. ----- End Included Message ----- Most catalogs that sell fly fishing or rod bulding books probably have it.I got mine from the Cabela's catalog. Bob MatarazzoMelville, NY from oborge@aiss.uic.edu Fri Dec 20 08:36:06 1996 IAA26350 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 08:36:05 -0600 Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.993.5) 08:44:51 -0600 Subject: RE: Beginers get the Videos 4.0.993.5Encoding: 41 TEXT Why not order it from the author?That's were I got my copy. Are you still selling directly Wayne? ----------From: rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com[SMTP:rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com]Sent: Friday, December 20, 1996 8:13 AM Subject: Re: Beginers get the Videos ----- Begin Included Message ----- from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Dec 19 20:59:48 1996Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:54:36 -0500 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Elizabeth Burke Subject: Re: Beginers get the VideosMime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: burgould@mint.netX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 2150 Where can such a beginner get the Cattanach videos? Thanks. Bill. ----- End Included Message ----- Most catalogs that sell fly fishing or rod bulding books probably have it.I got mine from the Cabela's catalog. Bob MatarazzoMelville, NY from whensel@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 20 08:51:39 1996 dfw-ix5.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA02513 for; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 06:51:34 -0800 Subject: Re: Beginers get the Videos You wrote: ----- Begin Included Message ----- from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Dec 19 20:59:48 1996Date: Thu, 19 Dec 1996 20:54:36 -0500 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Elizabeth Burke Subject: Re: Beginers get the VideosMime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: burgould@mint.netX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (32)X-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 2150 Where can such a beginner get the Cattanach videos? Thanks. Bill. ----- End Included Message ----- Most catalogs that sell fly fishing or rod bulding books probably have it.I got mine from the Cabela's catalog. Bob MatarazzoMelville, NY Anglers Workshop Tel - (360) 225-9445ask for Bambo Fly Rod vedio my cost was $50.00 that encluded shipping and there are two vedios. Lots of luck. Bill Hensel from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Dec 20 09:30:27 1996 ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 09:30:25 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:30:24 -0500 Subject: Ferrule pin removal (revisited) Hi All: Some time back, I posed the question: How do I remove the pin from aferrulewithout damaging the ferrule? Many of you responded with methods and Thanks. I've tryed several of the methods out and what I've found works best formeis to try to remove the pin with a pair of flush cutting pliers. If you can'tgrip the pin with the pliers, then I use a punch to drive the pin lower thanthe ferrule's I.D. and remove the ferrule first. By driving the pin downbelow the I.D. of the ferrule, removal of most ferrules (or reelseats) is apiece of cake. I use the 0.039" starter punch that Michael Sinclair talks about in hisrestoration book. (The starter punch has a shorter pin than a normal lengthpunch and there's less of a chance that a bent or broken punch pin willcausesome ferrule damage) Note: Some pins are too long to be fully driven lower than the ferrule I.D.without damaging the opposite side of the ferrule and so they'll still needto be drilled. Most of these SOB's, I've found, are in Montagues that alsocomes with a pin that also has a sheared-off tip (not flat surface). Thesepins also won't allow a drill bit to run true without wandering around anddamaging the ferrule. The punch flatens these pinheads (no pun) somewhatandhelps a drill bit run truer (if you're lucky). The starter punch is listed in the Brownells' catalog #49 on page 133, p/n080-513-039 @ $6.08 (complete with one 0.039" pin). Replacement pinsare p/n080-513-639 @ $6.45 per package of 6 pins. Brownells -- (515) 623-5401 or FAX (515) 623-3896 Brownells, Inc.200 South Front St.Montezuma, Iowa 50171-1000 Sorry if this is old news to some. Don Burns PS - They also sell gun stock polish (3F or 5F) that works wonders onpolishing up old varnish and some other products intended to be sold to thegun trade (brass black for "bluing" NS ferrules) that also works well forcane rod repair or building. from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Fri Dec 20 10:08:59 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA01118 for; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 10:08:58 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: Rod Tubes To Mike Biondo, The info on Classic & Custom Fly Shop is: 437 MainWinsted, Connecticut 06098 Phone: (860) 738-3597 RegardsBob Matarazzo P.S. The directory assistance search engine athttp://www.555- 1212.com/#telephone came in handy for this. Check itout. from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Dec 20 12:25:53 1996 ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 12:25:52 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 13:25:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Tubes Orvis carries this type of tube too. Don B. from jockscot@montana.campus.mci.net Fri Dec 20 17:35:40 1996 RAA25527 for ; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:35:38-0600 Subject: Milward binder I am attempting to build the Milward binder. The problem is with thepulleywheels....I can't find what I want The company listed by Bruce Conner nolonger has them. The local hardware store has six inch cast aluminumpulleysbut they have four beveled spokes which would make it difficult to mountallthe necessary hardware required for the binding process. I could sandwichthe pulley with two pieces of plywood to accommodate all theattachments butI would prefer to avoid that approach. And I do not have the means tomanufacture my own. The question is does anyone have a source for aninexpensive pulley? That's all I really want for Christmas.Also, while at the hardware store I can across Gorilla glue. Claims to be100% waterproof, highly heat resistant, no mixing and a working time of20min. I'm not so sure I'm willing to give up urac 185 but I would like tohear from anyone who has some experience with it. Thanks and have a Merry Christmas,Bill Blackburn from mrj@seanet.com Fri Dec 20 17:54:56 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26090 for ;Fri, 20 Dec 1996 17:54:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Milward binder If you tell me what size you want I may be able to fine some that havesolid centers.Martin In message writes:I am attempting to build the Milward binder. The problem is with thepulleywheels....I can't find what I want The company listed by Bruce Conner nolonger has them. The local hardware store has six inch cast aluminumpulleysbut they have four beveled spokes which would make it difficult tomount allthe necessary hardware required for the binding process. I couldsandwichthe pulley with two pieces of plywood to accommodate all theattachments butI would prefer to avoid that approach. And I do not have the means tomanufacture my own. The question is does anyone have a source for aninexpensive pulley? That's all I really want for Christmas.Also, while at the hardware store I can across Gorilla glue. Claims to be100% waterproof, highly heat resistant, no mixing and a working time of20min. I'm not so sure I'm willing to give up urac 185 but I would like tohear from anyone who has some experience with it. Thanks and have a Merry Christmas,Bill Blackburn Martin Jensen from jonrc@atlantic.net Fri Dec 20 19:11:48 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA28007 for; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 19:11:46 -0600 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA29069 for; Fri, 20 Dec 1996 20:27:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Milward binder William Blackburn wrote: I am attempting to build the Milward binFUNtoplines.ppt - Top LineSLD3SLD3PPT3lw"E&*=HPfD(zPn`O^ @@``@` _@`@vPfhEE[x x[ [x > > and is perfect for turning rod parts. I would like to find a source forspare parts and accessories. One source I have found is other lathe manufacturers (Sherline,Smithy,etc). For example, accessories based upon Morse tapers of the propersizeare interchangeable. Many Thanks, L.D.CrossLDCross3@aol.com /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/I would be interested in people's opinions about small lathes, such asthe Sherline, the Unimat, Smithy, and others. Bill Mack Bill,In my opinion, any thing smaller than one of the 9 inch (swing) lathes is simply not heavy enough to give the accuracy needed. Weight means more cast iron and more cast iron means rigidity. I think a good many makers are avoiding the tool making capabilities that a good metal working lathe can give. I use my lathes a lot in my rod making activities and I regard them and metal working skills to be an indispensible component of the rod maker's craft.John from DIXALEE@aol.com Sat Dec 21 01:58:28 1996 ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 01:58:27 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 02:58:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Tubes Hi Mike,I have ordered tubes like that from a company called Black Guard at 3214Matthew Ave. NE, Albuquerque, NM, 87107. You have to be patient at times shopand I will be away this weekend.WET, FLOODED, & DISGUSTED in OREGONA.J.Thramer from 100423.176@CompuServe.COM Sat Dec 21 04:38:12 1996 EAA11227 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 04:38:11-0600 Subject: "5 Easy Pieces" Hello everybody, I was just thumbing through a catalog yesterday and noticed that a popularbrandof graphite rod had just come out "new this year" in five (that's right 5)sections. I suppose this muliplicity of pieces is meant to provide for easeoftransport, or perhaps as a facility for concealment......who knows. It's true that two sections is a little cumbersome for a backpack (but therodtube made a neat centerpost for my pup tent) if a person is into hiking thehightrails. And it's also true that a two piece rod doesn't fit conveniently intoamazda trunk or an airline overhead for that matter. But why five (5) pieces..... Is this a reaction to some need expressed by the "now" generation or the young upward types for a flyrod that will fit in a brief case along with thelaptop....or is there some other facility that I am just totally missinghere? Isn't a certain amount of efficiency lost in transmission of casting forcesacross so many ferrules? How does one find the spine of such a creature(or isit "spineless" in so many sections....). I would ask the "Gods of Rods" to pass judgement (or pass whatever) onthisquestion. George Richardson M.D.Hirschhorn, Germanywriting at 10:06 AM, on Saturday, December 21, 1996 from bconner@cybercom.net Sat Dec 21 06:18:54 1996 ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 06:18:53 -0600 HAA05685 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 07:18:47 Subject: Re: Milward binder I am attempting to build the Milward binder. The problem is with thepulleywheels....I can't find what I want The company listed by Bruce Conner nolonger has them. The local hardware store has six inch cast aluminumpulleysbut they have four beveled spokes which would make it difficult to mountallthe necessary hardware required for the binding process. I couldsandwichthe pulley with two pieces of plywood to accommodate all theattachments butI would prefer to avoid that approach. And I do not have the means tomanufacture my own. The question is does anyone have a source for aninexpensive pulley? That's all I really want for Christmas.Also, while at the hardware store I can across Gorilla glue. Claims to be100% waterproof, highly heat resistant, no mixing and a working time of20min. I'm not so sure I'm willing to give up urac 185 but I would like tohear from anyone who has some experience with it. Thanks and have a Merry Christmas,Bill Blackburn Sorry the supplier has run out of those pulleys. If you run out of otheroptions, you could head down to the local vocational school and have somekid whip out a set of plywood wheels on a lathe for a few dollars. Or youmight be able to make the pulleys out of something like cheap plastic lawnfurniture wheels. The rubber "tire" would give a good grip to the drivebelt, but you would have to figure out a way to drill out the center andinsert the copper tube. I'll keep my eyes open for a good starting wheel when I'm at the hardwareand builders supplies. This seems to be a sticking point for a lot ofpeople and if there were a good source for them, it would save a lot offrustration. Bruce Connerbconner@cybercom.net from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sat Dec 21 08:47:22 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA15806 for; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 08:47:20 -0600 HAA23517; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 07:47:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Milward binder I am attempting to build the Milward binder. The problem is with thepulleywheels....I can't find what I want The company listed by Bruce Conner nolonger has them. The local hardware store has six inch cast aluminumpulleysbut they have four beveled spokes which would make it difficult to mountallthe necessary hardware required for the binding process. I couldsandwichthe pulley with two pieces of plywood to accommodate all theattachments butI would prefer to avoid that approach. And I do not have the means tomanufacture my own. The question is does anyone have a source for aninexpensive pulley? That's all I really want for Christmas.Also, while at the hardware store I can across Gorilla glue. Claims to be100% waterproof, highly heat resistant, no mixing and a working time of20min. I'm not so sure I'm willing to give up urac 185 but I would like tohear from anyone who has some experience with it. Thanks and have a Merry Christmas,Bill Blackburn Bill I also had problems finding the 6" pulley with a solid center. Allthe local supply houses did have 5" pulleys so I went with that and havehad no problems. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Dec 21 09:46:27 1996 ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 09:46:25 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:46:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Milward binder In a message dated 96-12-20 18:40:45 EST, you write: The question is does anyone have a source for aninexpensive pulley? That's all I really want for Christmas. Hi Bill :Try Graingers; 1-800-323-0620. They have 5" die-cast at $4.91 incatalog #387; have seen a binder using that size and it works ok.RTyree from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 21 12:38:38 1996 MAA21044 for ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 12:38:36-0600 ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 10:38:35 -0800 Subject: The Wise Fishermens Encylopedia I have found and bought today a cool book" The Wise Fishermen's Encyclopedia". My copy in copywrited 1952 which I think is the first one made. Its a great book and if you run into one grab it up. Very good sections on casting and Rod making. I wonder if any other of you have this book in their libraries? I paid $21.00 dollars for it today in a used book store. After looking through it for 30 minutes I realised it is a some what historical book regarding fishing. Bill Hensel from JHecht9234@aol.com Sat Dec 21 21:53:54 1996 ; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:53:53 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 21 Dec 1996 22:53:52 -0500 Subject: depth gauge I need to buy a depth gauge and a 60 degree point suitable for rod building(EMCO apparently does not carry the 60 degree point to fit thegauge/indicator). I understand that the 60 degree point can be difficult tofind. If anyone has recently purchased these items and could provide mewitha good source/part numbers, I would appreciate it. I don't have anyexperience with these types of tools, so any information (the morespecificthe better) would be very helpful. Thanks. from kmsmith@inx.net Sat Dec 21 21:55:01 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA04558 for ;Sat, 21 Dec 1996 21:55:00 - 0600 Subject: Re: "5 Easy Pieces" Hi Back in the sixty's A&F had made a bamboo rod called the Passport - if in your coat pocked each section aboutone foot long - WISH I had bot one, have to be great colletoritem today. Kevin Smith Ltc George Richardson wrote: Hello everybody, I was just thumbing through a catalog yesterday and noticed that apopular brandof graphite rod had just come out "new this year" in five (that's right 5)sections. I suppose this muliplicity of pieces is meant to provide forease oftransport, or perhaps as a facility for concealment......who knows. It's true that two sections is a little cumbersome for a backpack (butthe rodtube made a neat centerpost for my pup tent) if a person is into hikingthe hightrails. And it's also true that a two piece rod doesn't fit convenientlyinto amazda trunk or an airline overhead for that matter. But why five (5) pieces..... Is this a reaction to some need expressed by the "now" generation or the young upward types for a flyrod that will fit in a brief case along withthelaptop....or is there some other facility that I am just totally missinghere? Isn't a certain amount of efficiency lost in transmission of castingforcesacross so many ferrules? How does one find the spine of such a creature(or isit "spineless" in so many sections....). I would ask the "Gods of Rods" to pass judgement (or pass whatever) onthisquestion. George Richardson M.D.Hirschhorn, Germanywriting at 10:06 AM,on Saturday, December 21, 1996 from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Dec 22 00:06:07 1996 ; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 00:06:05 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 01:05:57 -0500 Subject: Aesthetic Balance Well for me the Christmas rush has subsided and as a relaxer I havefound myself doing a little writing before the confusion starts to rebuildinJanurary with all the flyfishing shows.An area that I've been mulling over for a while is what makes a flyrod appealing to the masses. Other than a good marketing scam. The termthatI've used for the past few years is aesthetic balance. If you were to line up a number of bamboo fly rods made by differentindividuals. I'm positive that certain ones would stand out over others.There would be a certain rightness about a few that would attract. Now ifthis is true to your eye what about to others. Perhpas those that you arelooking to sell rods to. The term that I've come to use is aestheticbalance,the judgment concerning beauty. And I feel it is as important to a fly rodasproportion is to a fly.In examining what represents aesthetic balance there are no lines inthesand but certain facets are obviuos. I would think that a lengthy butt wrapwith an imbedded tuna a bit bold.An asset of a bamboo fly rod is the beauty of the bamboo itself andthe quality of construction. Sheathed in a flawless finish. But is the purestate the most appealling? The numbers don't support that. Perhaps asmany as3/4 of all bamboo fly rods are flamed to some extent. Regionallypersentagemay vary. In the east where Leonards are popular it's perhaps 50 - 50.One of the first traits that I realized is how critical the balance of'tone' between the shaft and the reelseat filler is. So often you see ablonde rod with a walnut filler or a flamed rod with a filler that is dark incolor but a mismatch as far as tone is concerned.Because of the long slender look of a fly rod the components shouldcarry the same look as well. An agate stripping guide may be nice and of aclassic era but does it detract from the sleekness of the rod?And what color wraps compliment?As the maker, each of us has to address these issues and more tocomeup with a rod that we feel best represents us. If you hadn't thought aboutsome of these areas in the past perhaps this will be the start. The answeris in the eyes when a person picks up a rod. They may have no intention ofbuying it but when you see the gleam in the eye of a person familiar withthemany bamboo fly rods. You have found the answers. Wayne Ps.The dance card of shows is as follows if anyone wants to get together forcoffee. Janurary 11 - 12 College Park, MDJanurary 24 - 26 Somerset, NJFeb - Flint Muddler Minnows Flint,MIMarch 15-16 Southfield, MIMarch 21 - 23 Fly Rod & Reel Chicago,ILAugust 4 - 9 FFF National Conclave Grand Rapids, MI from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Sun Dec 22 07:32:35 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA21154 for; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 07:32:33 -0600 Subject: Re: depth gauge "JHecht9234@aol.com" at Dec 21, 96 10:53:52 pm I need to buy a depth gauge and a 60 degree point suitable for rodbuilding(EMCO apparently does not carry the 60 degree point to fit thegauge/indicator). I understand that the 60 degree point can be difficulttofind. If anyone has recently purchased these items and could provide mewitha good source/part numbers, I would appreciate it. I don't have anyexperience with these types of tools, so any information (the morespecificthe better) would be very helpful. Thanks. Like you I had no experience with machine tools, but it turns out thattheyare easy enough to find. One national outfit that may have a local store isProduction Tool Supply. Check the yellow pages for machine tools. Manyof themachine shops can order these things for you al well. If that fails, even ifit doesn't, there is ENCO Manufacturing CO at 1-800-860-3400. Dialgaguesbegin at $9.95. I haven't called them about points, but I'm pretty sure theywould have them. Production Tool Supply did not look at all surprisedwhen Isauntered in and demanded to see a 60degree point for a dial gauge. Also: make sure you ask for a dial gague, not a dial depth gague. Thelatter will cost you about $100 more than the former. The only thing youwillneed then is some sort of body, which can be made out of a block of wood(mineis 2 1/2 wide X 1 1/2 thick X 1 1/2 tall) with a 3/8" hole bored verticallythrough it. Make sure you have one really flat bottom to sit on the forms. If you need these things fast, call a couple of machine shops ans ask themwhere they get their tools locally.--Let me know if you need more information, though I'll be out of town forthe next couple of days.Mark M. Freed freedmar@pilot.msu.edu from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Dec 22 08:32:57 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA22234 for; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 08:32:55 -0600 IAA15382 for ; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 08:32:54 Subject: Re: Milward binder I got perfect and inexpensive pulleys for my Milward-stylebinder at American Science and Surplus. They were only about $4 each. This won't do you much good unless you are in Milwaukee or Chicago.I'm going to be out of town for several days, but if you're interestedI'll check next weekend and see if they have them any more. I've gotto stop there for something for a kid's science project anyway.If they have them I'll post the specs here. If you are thinking of putting a motor on your binder, go to a resale shop and get an old sewing machine with a detachable motor.I had to add a speed reduction pulley, but it's variable speed with a foot control, leaving your hands free to feed the rod sections thru.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, William Blackburn wrote: I am attempting to build the Milward binder. The problem is with thepulleywheels....I can't find what I want The company listed by Bruce Conner no from wfmack@evansville.net Sun Dec 22 10:38:43 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA25877 for; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 10:38:41 -0600 (Smail3.2 #2) id m0vbprm-000hxOC; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:31:06 - Subject: Re: depth gauge JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: I need to buy a depth gauge and a 60 degree point suitable for rodbuilding(EMCO apparently does not carry the 60 degree point to fit thegauge/indicator). I understand that the 60 degree point can be difficulttofind. If anyone has recently purchased these items and could provide mewitha good source/part numbers, I would appreciate it. I don't have anyexperience with these types of tools, so any information (the morespecificthe better) would be very helpful. Thanks.A small machine shop in New Jersey called J. Catalano will sell you the point, the stand, and a calbration block for a reasonable amount. I don't have his address at hand, but he was mentioned in one of the Planing Forum issues, and someone else in this group probably has that info at hand. Bil Mack from wfmack@evansville.net Sun Dec 22 11:19:21 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA27742 for; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 11:19:05 -0600 (Smail3.2 #2) id m0vbpw8-000hxKC; Sun, 22 Dec 1996 09:35:36 - Subject: Re: Milward binder Frank Stetzer wrote: I got perfect and inexpensive pulleys for my Milward-stylebinder at American Science and Surplus. They were only about $4 each. This won't do you much good unless you are in Milwaukee or Chicago.I'm going to be out of town for several days, but if you're interestedI'll check next weekend and see if they have them any more. I've gotto stop there for something for a kid's science project anyway.If they have them I'll post the specs here. If you are thinking of putting a motor on your binder, go to aresale shop and get an old sewing machine with a detachable motor.I had to add a speed reduction pulley, but it's variable speed witha foot control, leaving your hands free to feed the rod sections thru.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, William Blackburn wrote:_rҙ; RQHFfA4PP40 !SummaryInformation(vCurrent UserI@ !f?@6vvv&@:zz`z&/" "BXp4 0h dA&E@NNPN&"E& "2Tllll&z"`06zfvvV$A" $ . : @ L [ g n* zx 2!!NUN "L^p 7I Ă^pA ,/Mi^ V,/7ddLorem Ipsum ,/7ddL^O V UuKdDelor sit amet consectetuer adipiscing elit sed diam Nonummy nibh euismod Tincidunt ut Laoreet dolore Magna aliquam Exerci tation ullamcorper suscipit lobortis nisl ut aliquip ex ea com 6 E 6UuKdD_dd DddDddD_ddEUuKdr Ăp_ 0&OL B^p`dL s^ dd rOY P O 00@6'j>O00,D%"%,D90oFZY1N6r >q=iO O N _T d r > < " A ' O w l `, U1 Q5Aw%q3nAI@>8O[EuO"E *15A%Am$x>IALo]g}Hu ',OIa&r|WB- >>G)mOmEjO*)t,tu,_pe_spkjf_pPa_jOpPoDsyytsyK tIK j_ tP/,,E O\,O A" '` g8 ݟ2 0 ʟ. O, . U2 7 "? 3H F[ Ok Ix = . O > d5>OD.DDEMD'C$? ?;72- !0@Er S 2 S E & / 1~ 2O 1E 0 -r &R#oo"a#v#d"\ I R`Uj۟jJx`@(Z5 c) c)A5(Z?Mi^ V,dd Click to edit Master title style , ddL^O VDddRClick to edit Master text styles Second Level Third Level Fourth Level Fifth Level R! R!UuKd D_dd Ddd D_ddD"dd.r B_^p` Ăp_ 0^/?L s^ ddSClick to edit Master notes styles Second Level Third Level Fourth Level Fifth Level SS S"dd dd dd ddddO]tPuPvUN rObAUN %l%"r#$Ocl!&*=HPfD(zPmOS\ @@``@` _@`@vPfh*+t$**X//++''_>>[33RR]hh\RR^""YYYYYYW\GGGvvv1117U{].po U& SKAUJKp% - ~|#*ddd7wXYhhhYDaG[U3I(^RRRZddP7z\XYXppp^C33e`EPfT/0OcPB > Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Dec 1996, William Blackburn wrote: I am attempting to build the Milward binder. The problem is with thepulleywheels....I can't find what I want The company listed by Bruce ConnernoThere is a www site called www.sciplus.com that might be the sameplace,and they also have a catalog. Bill Mack The web site for American Science & Surplus is: http://www.sciplus.com Their address is: American Science & Surplus3605 W. Howard St.Skokie, IL 60077(847) 982-0874Fax: (800) 934-0722 I have been buying from them for years and have found them to be goodpeople to deal with. Their prices are great. They sell mostly surplus items and haveelectrical, mechanical, lab wear, toys, nolvities, raw materials and much more. Thecatalog lists more than the web page and is humorus to read. They gladly accept returnsif items don't perform as advertised but read the item description carefully before youbuy. Their advertising is honest. I have bought motors, gears, pulleys, heaters andeven rabbit fur from them. Look through the web page but I recommend the catalog. It'sfree for the asking. from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Dec 23 08:45:13 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03195 for ;Mon, 23 Dec 1996 08:45:11 -0600 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance At 07:37 PM 12/22/96 -0500, you wrote:Don -I'd love to come to the 'left' coast - the problem is transporting tools& bamboo - You see I am a guest speaker at all the shows I listed exceptSouthfield - there I just hang out with Sam and Larry - watching them tieflies and try to hustle a rod sale or two. At the others I do 6 (which runsto 10 - 12) hour hands on workshops. It may have a hint of glamour to itbutI drive the ol' pick up (as many as 28 hours on a weekend) so I can carrythestuff. Last year I drove to Washington the weekend after the 28" of snow- Atone point in time I was the only vechicle on the Beltway at 10 o'clockfridaymorning- a scary thought.Jim Butler (Fly Rod & Reel)has asked me to come back to Boston forthepast couple of years - flying myself isn't that expensive - the pile I takewith me is what costs a fortune to ship. I have thought about borrowingfroma couple locals but it just hasn't worked out.There are a lot of things in life that I would like to adventure outand do but having just turned 22 for the second time I still have about 20years before I can retire from the 'golden hand cuffs' - I would like totakea sojourn - you know - hop in the truck one morning with the idea thatsomeday you'll be back - pack a fly rod and a camera and go. Well you getthe So for now the answer is someday Wayne Wayne This is a subject that really deserves a good look. My greatestproblem is that although I am aware of the factors that "turn people on,"those factors DON"T turn me on. Glassy smooth varnish coat, beautifulshinyNS ferrules and guides are the two things I have observed that really catchthe eye of those looking at rods. You know and I know that a far betterfishiung tool would be a satin finish, with oxidized ferrules. Flash andglitter catches the eye, but not the fish. I feel strongly that grip designis far more important than most rodmakers realize, yet I find myselfplayingthe whore, by making grips that look elegant. I am really curious, do weprostitute our craft for the easy buck or do we remain true to our personalconcepts of what makes a good fly rod? As for me I still prefer to do myown thing and be damned to those who might turn up their nose at one ofmyrods because it is not as pretty as some one else's. I know that mydesignsare sound, my craftsmanship is meticulous and each rod I make I hope is alittle better than the last one. I can live with this. Ralph W. Moon from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Mon Dec 23 11:53:04 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA13315 for; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:53:03 -0600 mail.pilot.net with ESMTP id JAA28272 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA071433961; Mon, 23 Dec 199609:59:21 - 0800 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 2BEC78F0; Mon, 23 Dec 9609:55:27 -0800 Subject: Re[2]: Atlas Lathes A comment about the rigidity of small lathes: BTW, I have no affiliation with Sherline... The Sherline lathe is quite capable of producing extremely accurate small parts. Accuracy to plus or minus 5 tenths (.0005") is not uncommon if the machine is set up properly and light finishing cuts are taken. The Sherline lathe although small, is very rigid. If you have ever seen a large load of steel box tubing lifted from a flatbed truck, you will notice that the weight of the steel causes the ends to deflect a considerable distance.Pick up a short rigid piece of box tube and there is no sag at all. It is this deflection that makes shimming and leveling a large lathe very important. The Sherline also has relatively large bearings supporting the headshaft. Great machine for making small parts like realseats, rod tube caps, etc.My only complaint is that the machine does not have enough swing to turn afly real without buying an expensive spacer kit. It is for this reason I chose to buy an older Atlas. It does not have anywhere near the rigidity of the smaller Sherline, but is plenty accurate for my needs. I would however love to have a large engine lathe. I used to have unlimited access to a wonderful old Prat & Whitney lathe. I would give my eyeteethto have it in my shop. I considered a Smithy lathe, but the according to the manufacturer, this machine was only good for plus or minus .003". I am also not a big fan of Chinese machine tools. Happy Holidays! L.D.CrossBlue River, Oregon ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Atlas LathesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet ~Text Omitted~ /***********************************************************************/ Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ I would be interested in people's opinions about small lathes, such as the Sherline, the Unimat, Smithy, and others. Bill Mack from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Mon Dec 23 12:39:11 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA15739 for; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 12:39:10 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: depth gauge The 60 degree point is made by Starret. If you call them at (800) 254- 8690,they will give you the name of a distributor in your area and you canorder it through the distributor. (They don't sell direct.) The cost is$3.05 plus whatever the distributor tacks on for shipping, etc. You'llalso need to know the part number of the 60-degree point. I don't happentohave it but perhaps someone else on the list will provide that. Good Luck,Bob Matarazzo from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Mon Dec 23 13:06:16 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA16639 for; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 13:06:15 -0600 mail.pilot.net with ESMTP id LAA01490 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA080728357; Mon, 23 Dec 199611:12:37 - 0800 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 2BED8C00; Mon, 23 Dec 9611:08:48 -0800 Subject: Re[2]: Dial Indicators I happened to save this message from earlier this month.Hope this helps. L.D.Cross ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Dial IndicatorsAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet Mike Sorry I didn't answer earlier - been away for holiday. The L S Starrett Company phone numbers are 1-(800) 254-86901-(508) 249-3551 Part number is PT06632/6 Contact Point. Current price is $3.05 - suggest you order a coupleand shipping will be approx $2.50 Chris from rfairfie@cisco.com Mon Dec 23 13:38:45 1996 LAA17675 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 11:28:27 - 0800 Subject: Re: depth gauge If you call and have the part number, Starret will ship to you direct. The part number is PTO6632/6, and they charge $2.50 for shipping andhandling. Hope this helps. Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Dec 23 11:10:01 1996Date: Mon, 23 Dec 96 13:40:34 EST Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com (Bob Matarazzo X2631) Subject: Re: depth gaugeX-Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 466 The 60 degree point is made by Starret. If you call them at (800) 254- 8690,they will give you the name of a distributor in your area and you canorder it through the distributor. (They don't sell direct.) The cost is$3.05 plus whatever the distributor tacks on for shipping, etc. You'llalso need to know the part number of the 60-degree point. I don't happentohave it but perhaps someone else on the list will provide that. Good Luck,Bob Matarazzo from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Dec 23 15:23:38 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA22853 for; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:23:36 -0600 with BSMTP id 1786; Mon, 23 Dec 96 16:22:40 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9612; Mon, 23 Dec1996 16:22:40 -0500Subject: Points Thanks to all. I can't tell you how manyfriends and shop keepers I asked about this,including a machinist friend at Pratt andWhitney. Finally a simple call to Starret'sand they are sending two points for a dialgauge for under 10 bucks. Ain't life sweet.Bob. from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Mon Dec 23 15:44:19 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24137 for; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:44:18 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Wayne,Since we're talking aesthetics here I have to ask - am I the the only onewho hates uplocking reelseats? One of the reasons I learned to build myown rods in the first place is so I don't have to follow market trends likeuplocking reelseats, non-cork handles, and gaudy guide wraps. Have a MerryBob MatarazzoMelville, NY from carte004@maroon.tc.umn.edu Mon Dec 23 15:57:58 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA24778 for; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 15:57:57 -0600 15:57:57 -0600 15:57:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Bob,I'm definitely with you on the reel-seat question. Down-lockers look better, they give you better balance, and they let you shape that first cork ring the way you want to. I like classic cigar-shaped handles, an impossibility with the up-lock seats. The notion that you don't damageyour reel as much because it's away from the butt doesn't justify an up-lock in my book. Most of us pay enough for our reels that we're pretty careful anyway. John Carter from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Dec 23 16:30:51 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25943 for ;Mon, 23 Dec 1996 16:30:50 - 0600 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance At 04:45 PM 12/23/96 EST, you wrote:Wayne,Since we're talking aesthetics here I have to ask - am I the the only onewho hates uplocking reelseats? One of the reasons I learned to build myown rods in the first place is so I don't have to follow market trends likeuplocking reelseats, non-cork handles, and gaudy guide wraps. Have a MerryBob MatarazzoMelville, NY I'm with you Bob, on every point Ralph from cbogart@ibm.net Mon Dec 23 17:18:44 1996 ; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 17:18:43 -0600 SAA06181 for ; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 18:22:21-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Ralph Just remember: Beauty is all in the eye of the beholder.I have seen some mighty ugly people married. I have seen ugly rods and pretty rods. One of the nicest rods I have ever cast was and still is the ugliest - so as the song goes "Never make a pretty woman your wife" Does that apply to rods also?? `To everyone - Have a Merry Xmas and a Happy NewYears and hope we have another year on the list like the past one. Chris from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Mon Dec 23 20:46:06 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA03869 for; Mon, 23 Dec 1996 20:45:59 -0600 Tue, 24 Dec 1996 10:45:49 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Atlas Lathes Hi, I'll just wade in again on this thread.As mentioned below, the Sherline is plenty accurate. I'm turning ferrules from NS rod stock as I can't source tuF'+'YUOh'+'Y0travels.ppt - TravelTSLD3PPSLD3PPT3lw.K $ Lorem IpsumMicrosoft CorporationJJ[x x[ [x > BTW, I have no affiliation with Sherline... The Sherline lathe is quite capable of producing extremely accuratesmall parts. Accuracy to plus or minus 5 tenths (.0005") is not uncommon ifthe machine is set up properly and light finishing cuts are taken. TheSherline lathe although small, is very rigid. If you have ever seen a large loadof steel box tubing lifted from a flatbed truck, you will notice that the weight of the steel causes the ends to deflect a considerable distance.Pick up a short rigid piece of box tube and there is no sag at all. It isthis deflection that makes shimming and leveling a large lathe veryimportant. The Sherline also has relatively large bearings supporting theheadshaft. Great machine for making small parts like realseats, rod tube caps,etc. My only complaint is that the machine does not have enough swing to turnafly real without buying an expensive spacer kit. It is for this reason Ichose to buy an older Atlas. It does not have anywhere near the rigidity ofthe smaller Sherline, but is plenty accurate for my needs. I would however love to have a large engine lathe. I used to haveunlimited access to a wonderful old Prat & Whitney lathe. I would give myeyeteeth to have it in my shop. I considered a Smithy lathe, but the according to the manufacturer,this machine was only good for plus or minus .003". I am also not a big fanof Chinese machine tools. Happy Holidays! L.D.CrossBlue River, Oregon ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Atlas LathesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet Date: 12/20/96 10:28 PM ~Text Omitted~ /***********************************************************************/ Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.html /***********************************************************************/ I would be interested in people's opinions about small lathes, such as the Sherline, the Unimat, Smithy, and others. Bill Mack /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from MNBHEXROD@aol.com Tue Dec 24 07:34:55 1996 ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:34:54 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 08:34:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Atlas Lathes Ref: Nickel SilverYou can purchase Nickel Silver from David Le Clair: The Fly and Rod Room P.O.Box 565 BontaLane Elbridge,N.Y. 13060 (315)689-7896 Mark MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF YOU ON THE LIST AND TO YOUR FAMILIES.MAY THE COMING YEAR BE FILLED WITH JOY AND HAPPINESS FOR YOU ! from MNBHEXROD@aol.com Tue Dec 24 07:48:26 1996 ; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:48:24 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 08:48:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Atlas Lathes Ref: Nickel Silveryou can purchase Nickel Silver from David Le Clair: The Fly and Rod RoomP.O. Box565Bonta LaneElbridge,N.Y. 13060 I am sending this through again, I don't think it went out the first time. MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL OF YOU ON THE LIST AND TO YOUR FAMILIES.MAY THE COMING YEAR BRING PEACE AND HAPPINESS TO EACH OF YOU. Mark from jonrc@atlantic.net Tue Dec 24 07:53:51 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA18764 for; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 07:53:50 -0600 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id JAA22027 for; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:11:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Atlas Lathes Tony Young wrote: Hi, I'll just wade in again on this thread.As mentioned below, the Sherline is plenty accurate. I'm turning ferrules from NS rod stock as I can't source tube for the job and I can cut as fineas I need to get a good interference fit with the male/female parts. I'malso making screw type reel seats which I like very much. My onlycomplaint is the threading attatchment is a bit "micky mouse" but itcertainly does the job.I also have no affiliation with Sherline, but I think the lathe is worth alook if you're in the market.They have a home page that you can find using Yahoo. Tony Young I just purchased a Sherline lathe also. But I've been busy enoughplaning and glueing that I haven't had time to spend using it yet.. Tony and others that are turning their own ferrules, I would like tohear more about how the process is done. Thanks and Happy Holidays -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from kmsmith@inx.net Tue Dec 24 09:40:40 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21254 for ;Tue, 24 Dec 1996 09:40:39 - 0600 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Hi, Uplocking reel seats are great for Salt Water rods other wise -I don't see any purpose.Kevin Smithkmsmith@inx.net from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Dec 24 12:59:43 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA28398 for ;Tue, 24 Dec 1996 12:59:42 - 0600 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Bob Matarazzo X2631 wrote: Wayne,Since we're talking aesthetics here I have to ask - am I the the onlyonewho hates uplocking reelseats? One of the reasons I learned to build myown rods in the first place is so I don't have to follow market trends likeuplocking reelseats, non-cork handles, and gaudy guide wraps. Have a MerryBob MatarazzoMelville, NY Bob,I, like you, despise unlocking reel seats.John from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Tue Dec 24 16:52:07 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA04095 for; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 16:52:06 -0600 #19314) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Re: aesthetics I'm relly to much of a newbie to offer an opinion but i like slide bandswith wood inserts on the smaller rods. Thanks to all for the help and encourgement MERRY CHRISTMASler rods. Thanks to all for the help and gerald(jerry)johnsongjflyfsh@uwyo.edu from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 24 21:09:04 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10322 for; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 21:09:02 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA30654 for; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 22:06:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Dickerson felt the same as you do. Build 'em the way you believe theyought to be built and someday I can add your rods to the list of makersI can't afford. Merry Christmas to all, and to all a g'nite. Brian > from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 24 21:13:02 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA10422 for; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 21:13:00 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA30685 for; Tue, 24 Dec 1996 22:10:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance I like up-locking seats. Don't loosen 'em w/ the heel of my hand (soI'm a sloppy caster, drown me.), like the balance, like the look.I may not know art, but I know what I like. Isn't that the best part of all of this? Brian > from cparham@crocker.com Wed Dec 25 07:00:04 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA20407 for; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 07:00:02 -0600 rmc1.crocker.com (8.7.6/8.6.10) with SMTP id HAA10368 for; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 07:58:19 GMT Organization: Judd Wire, Inc. Subject: Re: Nickel Silver tube John Zimny wrote: Charles Parham wrote: John Zimny wrote: I have, just this day, come upon a limited source of nickel silver tubein the following dimensions:.650 ID, .810 OD and .700 ID, .860ID. Itwill be available around $15 per foot. I think it most suitable forthose who make their own reel seats. It is thick enough to threadwith afairly large thread. If you contact me, I'll pass along the address toyou.JohnIs the nickel silver tube a nickel\silveralloy or a silver plated nickelor what? Eric Parham No. The alloy is a cupro-nickel alloy of 18% nickel, about 1%zinc andthe rest copper. No plating involved. John Thanks for all the help with rod bulding from all you guys. ERIC P. from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Dec 25 12:59:33 1996 ; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 12:59:32 -0600 ; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 14:02:52 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Informal Survey Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how manyrodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipmentdoesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoeornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family,or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? Chris from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Wed Dec 25 13:19:25 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA26717 for; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 13:19:24 -0600 #19314) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Survey ChrisYes, in fact all but two of the gifts were fishing related. Ornamanents,book, fishing saying imprinted on board along with other 'clever' items.The jolley elf(my wife) must not have heard the request and seen the list of needed rod building supplies and tools. She gave up on real fishingequipment years ago.gerald(jerry)johnsongjflyfsh@uwyo.edu from rcurry@jlc.net Wed Dec 25 14:53:47 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28008 for; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 14:53:46 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA13683 for Subject: Re: Informal Survey Chris,My Christmas list was heavily weighted towards golden caste Andualusian hackle necks (Portugese not Spanish), Argus quills, Bali Duck skins, Polar Bear hair, and African Red Baboon skins. You know, all the little staples of fly-tying. Did I get any? No, not even a single Black Sacred Monkey hide. But I did get books, some on fishing, so I'm content.Reed P.S. - All of the above items are listed for sale in my latest Herter's catalog (1942). I couldn't place my order by phone 'cause they didn't list a phone number. If anyone has an alternate source for Viscala skins, let meknow. Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how manyrodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipmentdoesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoeornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family,or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? Chris from 76375.2274@CompuServe.COM Wed Dec 25 16:24:28 1996 QAA28935 for ; Wed, 25 Dec 199616:24:27 -0600 Subject: Survey Chris, I was a little lite this year on that sort of thing, I did well on Fly FishingCalenders though. Hope everyone is having a great holiday and it has beenfunbeing on the list, actually more than fun it has been a real priviledge. Tight lines to all and to all best fishes. Chuck Irvine from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Wed Dec 25 18:03:37 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA29999 for; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 18:03:35 -0600 8.7/8.7) id SAA50268 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 Subject: Re: Informal Survey Chris,My daughter (who has a somewhat warped sense of humor, especiallywhen itcomes to gifts for good old Dad) got me a Fish ruler. A nice woodenfigure of a fish to hang in my office - total length about 5" - withmarkingsof 1" 2" 3" 5" 8" 13" 20" Now why didn't I think of that :>)Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from jonrc@atlantic.net Wed Dec 25 19:03:21 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA01403 for; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 19:03:19 -0600 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with ESMTP id UAA30889 for; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 20:22:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Informal Survey Chris Bogart wrote: Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how manyrodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipmentdoesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoeornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family,or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? Chris Chris, it's not just your family. I got a letter box with a trout on it,a tie with flys on it, three fishing books, an ornament with a fly in itand a rug with trout on it. In fact we even have a tree this year (asmall one) with just fishing related ornaments on it. Best of all, is an understanding wife that puts up with all the bambooaround the house. In fact, I even spent a little time today (Christmas)sanding the glue off one of the balnks I'm working on. Happy holidays everyone.-- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from whensel@ix.netcom.com Wed Dec 25 19:56:39 1996 ; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 17:56:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Informal Survey You wrote: Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how manyrodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipmentdoesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoeornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family,or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? Chris I just wanted to tell everyone that it was avery positive xmas. The weird presents stoped this year. My mother inlaw gave me fish shaped slippers last year...thank god it didnt happen this year. I wish everyone a great rod making year and hope that my first rod is functional. Happy new year to all, Bill Hensel from FFer4trout@aol.com Wed Dec 25 20:47:09 1996 ; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 20:47:08 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 21:47:07 -0500 Subject: Up on the roof top I sprang to my workbench,making a clatter. Glued a rod,wrapping with some stringand making a splater. The wife came running,to see what was the matter. Just a rod builder, as crazy as a hatter. Wishing you all,A Merry Christmas Don Burns from cheri@jit.com Wed Dec 25 21:05:42 1996 (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA08670 for; Wed, 25 Dec 1996 19:05:34 - 0800 Subject: ROD: from Cheri, saying "seasons greetings" in many languages! "How Do You Send Season's Greetings To YourOnline Friends? Let Us Count the Ways ..." from Cheri Sigmon (A "new," silent rod-maker to be, whenmy Dad gets his woodshop finished! ;-) + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + /_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\/_\| | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | Afrikander - Een Plesierige KerfeesArabic - I'D MIILAD SAID OUA SANA SAIDAArgentine - Felices Pasquas Y felices ano NuevoArmenian - Shenoraavor Nor Dari yev Pari GaghandAzeri - Tezze Iliniz Yahsi Olsun Basque - Zorionak eta Urte Berri On!Bohemian - Vesele VanoceBrazilian - Boas Festas e Feliz Ano NovoBreton - Nedeleg laouen na bloavezh matBulgarian - Tchestita Koleda; Tchestito Rojdestvo Hristovo Chinese - (Mandarin) Kung His Hsin Nien bing Chu Shen Tan(Catonese) Gun Tso Sun Tan'Gung Haw SunCornish - Nadelik looan na looan blethen nowethCree - Mitho Makosi KesikansiCroatian - Sretan BozicCzech - Prejeme Vam Vesele Vanoce a stastny Novy Rok Danish - Glfdelig JulDutch - Vrolijk Kerstfeest en een Gelukkig Nieuwjaar! English - Merry ChristmasEsperanto - Gajan KristnaskonEstonian - Ruumsaid juulup|hi Farsi - Cristmas-e-shoma mobarak bashadFinnish - Hyvaa jouluaFrench - Joyeux NoelFrisian - Noflike Krystdagen en in protteLok en Seine yn it Nije Jier! German - Froehliche WeihnachtenGreek - Kala Christouyenna! Hawaiian - Mele KalikimakaHebrew - Mo'adim Lesimkha. Chena tovaHindi - Shub Naya BarasHungarian - Kellemes Karacsonyi unnepeket Icelandic - Gledileg JolIndonesian - Selamat Hari NatalIraqi - Idah Saidan Wa Sanah JadidahIrish - Nollaig Shona DhuitItalian - Buone Feste Natalizie Japanese - Shinnen omedeto. Kurisumasu Omedeto Korean - Sung Tan Chuk Ha Latvian - Prieci'gus Ziemsve'tkus un Laimi'gu Jauno Gadu!Lithuanian - Linksmu Kaledu Manx - Nollick ghennal as blein vie noaMaori - Meri KirihimeteMarathi - Shub Naya Varsh Navajo - Merry KeshmishNorwegian - God Jul Pennsylvania German - En frehlicher Grischtdaagun en hallich Nei Yaahr!Polish - Wesolych Swiat Bozego NarodzeniaPortuguese - Boas Festas Rapa-Nui - Mata-Ki-Te-Rangi. Te-Pito-O-Te-HenuaRomanian - Sarbatori fericite!Russian - Pozdrevlyayu s prazdnikom Rozhdestva is Novim Godom Serbian - Hristos se rodiSlovakian - Sretan Bozic or Vesele vianoceSami - Buorrit JuovllatSamoan - La Maunia Le Kilisimasi Ma Le Tausaga FouScots Gaelic - Nollaig chridheil huibhSerb-Croatian - Sretam Bozic. Vesela Nova GodinaSinghalese - Subha nath thalak Vewa. Subha Aluth Awrudhak VewaSlovak - Vesele Vianoce. A stastlivy Novy RokSlovene - Vesele Bozicne. Screcno Novo LetoSpanish - Feliz NavidadSwedish - God Jul & (Och) Ett Gott Nytt Er Tagalog - Maligayamg Pasko. Masaganang Bagong TaonTamil - Nathar Puthu Varuda ValthukkalThai - Sawadee Pee MaiTurkish - Noeliniz Ve Yeni Yiliniz Kutlu Olsun Ukrainian - Srozhdestvom KristovymUrdu - Naya Saal Mubarak Ho Vietnamese - Chung Mung Giang Sinh Welsh - Nadolig Llawen Yugoslavian - Cestitamo Bozic ' , ' , ',--. ' Cheri Sigmon, Owner ________ . . / \ | |, ' (__________) http://www.jit.com __|______|__(/ O O \) | O O |(`._,()._,') "Happy Holidays!" | > |( `-'`-' ) .--. ,--. \ ____[]\ /--'.==.`---'.==.`---'.==.`---'.==.`--'.==.`_;------\,,,,,,/ - |()| - | | - |()| - | | - |()| / O \.' \/ `. \/ .' \/ `. \/ .' \/ `.| O | from FFer4trout@aol.com Thu Dec 26 06:18:01 1996 ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 06:18:00 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 07:18:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Informal Survey In a message dated 96-12-25 14:03:08 EST, you write: Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how manyrodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipmentdoesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoeornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family,or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? Universal - I got a "Gone Fishing" coffee mug. DB from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Dec 26 08:56:00 1996 IAA16576 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 08:55:59-0600 OAA13642 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 14:55:57GMT (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA27393 for ; Subject: Re: Informal Survey You wrote >>>>>>>>>>>>>. Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how manyrodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipmentdoesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoeornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family,or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? ===================================================================== A rainbow trout pen !!!!!!! Along with one book that may be OK. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia ********************************* F. Karl Hube , PresidentBen Meadows Company, Inc. Atlanta, Georgia USA khube@benmeadows.com********************************* from cparham@crocker.com Thu Dec 26 09:00:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA16700 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:00:53 -0600 rmc1.crocker.com (8.7.6/8.6.10) with SMTP id JAA05751 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:59:15 GMT Organization: Judd Wire, Inc. Subject: Re: Informal Survey Chris Bogart wrote: Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how manyrodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipmentdoesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoeornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family,or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? Chris None for me but I got my youngest his first vest and my other, Wayne's book. from dmichels@usitc.gov Thu Dec 26 09:25:10 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA17390 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:25:02 -0600 Subject: re: Informal Survey I got a bamboo project rod. Not much to look at, but something to wile away the hours thinking about how to do a perfect re-build job. Let's see now, Full wells or half wells? Other than that, it was pretty much standard fare in the presents, except for the silk boxers. But the wife gets what she wants. . . . from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Dec 26 09:41:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA17858 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:41:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Re:Informal Survey Chris, Missed the fishing ornaments, bottle openers etc. etc. this year and gotjust one book - Another Lousy Day in Paradise by John Gierach. Aboutdescribes things around here - its -20F and I haven't been fishing in 8weeks. Building though. Best wishes of the season to all. Don Andersen At 14:04 25/12/96 -0600, you wrote:Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how manyrodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipmentdoesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoeornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family,or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? Chris from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Thu Dec 26 10:03:18 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA18609 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 10:03:16 -0600 mail.pilot.net with ESMTP id IAA10727 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA188046574; Thu, 26 Dec 199608:09:34 - 0800 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 2C2A2580; Thu, 26 Dec 9608:05:44 -0800 Subject: Re[2]: Informal Survey Chris, I tied two dozen flies each for the fly fishermen in our family. In return I recieved a couple of neat t-shirts with fly fishing motifs. Thank god no ties with trout on them this year. Happy Holidays!! L.D.CrossBlue River,Oregon ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re:Informal SurveyAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how many rodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipment doesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoe ornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family, or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? Chris from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Thu Dec 26 11:13:10 1996 ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:13:03 -0800 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Informal Survey Lloyd Cross wrote:Thank god noties with trout on them this year. Actually, I received one tie with a non-descript fish(carp?) design that Ilove.. It's a Jerry Garcia creation. In the words of Yogi Berra, "I guess he made itbefore he died". Mike -- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly- fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Dec 26 11:19:48 1996 JAA13084 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 09:19:46 - 0800 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Informal Survey My wife is aware of this illness I have--the desire to build a first class(atleast a first) bamboo fly rod this winter. I received a heat gun and anorbital sander--just what I need to straighten/heat treat bamboo, and to prepare culms for splitting. Thanks to all for the great conversation and tips on this this! Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Dec 26 08:11:32 1996Date: Thu, 26 Dec 1996 07:52:01 -0800 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com (Lloyd Cross) Subject: Re[2]: Informal SurveyMime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitContent-Description: cc:Mail note partX- Listprocessor-Version: 7.1 -- ListProcessor by CRENContent-Length: 809 Chris, I tied two dozen flies each for the fly fishermen in our family. In return I recieved a couple of neat t-shirts with fly fishing motifs. Thank god no ties with trout on them this year. Happy Holidays!! L.D.CrossBlue River,Oregon ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re:Informal SurveyAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at InternetDate: 12/26/96 08:37 AM Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how many rodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipment doesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoe ornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family, or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Dec 26 17:22:39 1996 ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 17:22:38 -0600 SAA16798 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 18:26:41-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Survey Results I am glad that I am not alone in getting fish gifts - thoughI did one real object d'art that a friend of ours who is a well know and respected artist made for me. But the rest of the stuff is pretty bane - I have all the books - lastyear it was flyfishing through mid life crisis - Coffee mugwith flies, elf fishing ornament (motorized) - though no tiesyet (thank god) - though for some strange reason santagave the family last year the "Digger" video which I appreaciated and the rest of the family tolerated. So here's to all those good gifts and lookingforward to some good rodmaking next year and hopefullyan usable gift or two - I liked Reeds list but we all have dreams.I would have settled for an #1 Hoffman neck (Grizzly). `To all Happy New Years. Chris from jfoster@gte.net Thu Dec 26 17:41:00 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA03756 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 17:40:58 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id RAA15508 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 17:40:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Informal Survey Yup Chris me too got a trout pen, a picture frame adorned with flies, and a fishermen seethings differently, hanging thing, and oh yes, two books on northern NewMexico fly fishing, inducement from a sister in law...I really wanted the trout slippers..Jerry from cbogart@ibm.net Thu Dec 26 17:57:47 1996 ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 17:57:46 -0600 TAA16956 for ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 19:02:00-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Informal Survey There is good news: At least no one got the trouser trout that I knowsomeone got!!! explain that one away. Chris from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Thu Dec 26 18:57:47 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05952 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 18:57:45 -0600 mail.pilot.net with ESMTP id QAA25829 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA216838651; Thu, 26 Dec 199617:04:11 - 0800 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.02 Enterprise) id 2C31FA50; Thu, 26 Dec 9617:00:21 -0800 Subject: Neunemann Oven Design Ok folks, I'm about to open a can of worms and bring up the heat treating oven / heat gun issue. Please forgive me... I'm ready to build a heat treating oven. I've scanned through the achieves and downloaded Frank Neunemann's design. The question for the folks who have used this basic design: How has the oven worked for you and what modifications have you made to improve the performance? Any hidden pitfalls to avoid? (e.g. insulation, size of air gap between tubes, thermostats, etc.) Many thanks in advance, L.D.CrossBlue River, Oregon from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 26 18:58:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05965 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 18:58:39 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14686 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 19:56:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Informal Survey I got a little clay santa wearing waders, with a pipe and a rod, withlittle candy canes on the vest. It is certainly symptomatic, and much better than a chia pet. Brian C. > from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Thu Dec 26 19:15:40 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA06473 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 19:15:39 -0600 8.7/8.7) id UAA42098 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 Subject: Informal Survey Chris Bogart wrote:At least no one got the trouser trout that I knowsomeone got!!! explain that one away. Christo which I reply . . . anyone get the trout UNDERWEAR?!?!?!?!?!Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from SealRite@aol.com Thu Dec 26 22:57:10 1996 ; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 22:57:09 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 23:57:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance If you ever have an opportunity, pick up something written by JamesKrenov - a master cabinet maker. He stresses that form follows function - nothinginthe design should distract from the function. The function of the fly rodisto cast a fly, nothing in the design should distract from that originalpurpose, other than to celebrate the beauty of the bamboo - ergo aestheticbalance. from rcurry@jlc.net Thu Dec 26 23:19:49 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA13594 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 23:19:47 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id AAA24157 for Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance SealRite (of the Philadelphis SealRites : ) wrote:If you ever have an opportunity, pick up something written by JamesKrenov -a master cabinet maker. He stresses that form follows function -nothing inthe design should distract from the function. The function of the fly rodisto cast a fly, nothing in the design should distract from that originalpurpose, other than to celebrate the beauty of the bamboo - ergoaestheticbalance. If we acknowledge any value in the Bauhaus "form follows function" philosophy, then we must look more closely at the function(s) of a cane fly rod. Wayne's premise, with which I agree, is that casting the fly and playing the fish (optional), and doing both with the requisite power and delicacy for the situation, are the acknowledged functions of any fly rod -- cane, FRP, metal, etc.. However, since the material (cane) offers the opportunity to create an object of beauty, then this introduces a third function, aesthetic enjoyment, which, perhaps, should be acknowledged asa desirable function, as well. Best regards,Reed from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Thu Dec 26 23:56:04 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA14724 for; Thu, 26 Dec 1996 23:56:00 -0600 Fri, 27 Dec 1996 13:55:53 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance That's true,Although in all his books, Krenov stresses form following function, the best book IMHO is his Fine Art of Cabinetmaking. It's true that what he writes about cabinet making can be carried over to musical instruments, flyrods or boats. Worth reading. Tony If you ever have an opportunity, pick up something written by JamesKrenov - a master cabinet maker. He stresses that form follows function -nothing inthe design should distract from the function. The function of the fly rodisto cast a fly, nothing in the design should distract from that originalpurpose, other than to celebrate the beauty of the bamboo - ergoaestheticbalance. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from FFer4trout@aol.com Fri Dec 27 03:26:11 1996 ; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 03:26:10 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 04:26:09 -0500 Subject: Restoration questions Hi All, I've been working my way towards planing my first cane, but so far mytimehas been put into restoring rods. I've got a couple of questions and I hopesome of you might be able to answer for me. I've removed the grip, reelseat and wooden reelseat-spacer from an 7'(2/1)Kingfisher rod. It's an early 20th century Montague-built rod fromreelseatdesign. I've reglued a long delaminated section under the cork grip. I usedTitebond II glue to re-glue the delaminated area. My questions: 1) Is Titebond II strong enough to glue a tip scarf joint? Or is it a MUSTthat I use Urac or Resorcinol? 2a) Working on some misc. tips (Montague) that I also hae, I noticed thatsome ferrules are very tight fitting upon the cane, in fact, darn nearimposible to removeeven with the pins removed. In really, while heatingonetip in a vain attempt to remove it's ferrule, I noticed a lot of blacktar-like "stuff" coming out of the tip. Is this a sign that the cane wasn't heat tempered properly? Or a sign ofthecane was picking up moisture over the years? 2b) If so, is there a way to re-temper an existing tip? 3) Is it possible that the cane expanded as it picked up moisture makingtheferrule fit that tight due to moisture build-up? Maybe all this is thereason Thanks, Don Burns PS - I'll post the taper for the Kingfisher rod after I finish scarfing thetip. Right now the tip is only half length, but I don't think they used areal fancy taper and I've got a Montague tip that seems it will scrafperfectly to the end. from khube@benmeadows.com Fri Dec 27 08:15:59 1996 IAA25516 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 08:15:58 -0600 OAA22094 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 14:15:57GMT (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15523 for ; Subject: Neunemann Oven Lloyd, I built the Neunemann oven last summer and have had good results. The shell was made from stock ducting from the local Home Depot with 5-inand 3-in used for the outside and inside, respectively. I had to use somelarge tin cans for the caps on top and bottom, but there are supposed to beregular duct caps around. A low-end Black& Decker heat gun was pressed into service for the initialruns. I had the loan of a good digital thermometer with a proper air probeto inset in the three port that Frank suggested. First runs were not up to par as I had could not reach the target 350 deglevel. A wrap of R-11 insulation I had on hand solved the problem and it isnot too tough to drive the temperature to 400 degs. You may be able to findan insulation sleeve complete with outside aluminum foil covering thatwouldbe great for the insulation. I still need to wrap mine in foil so I won'tget into to the fiberglass. The insulation also helped block off any leaks,too. Some of the other folks have had comments on heat guns. The one I used isnot adjustable and the temperature sort of drifts through the desiredrangeduring the run. However, the temperature remained stable enough anduniformthrough the tube so I was able to treat two rods. The first is a tiny"Banty" one piece that was run through at 350 deg for fifteen minutes.Thisgave an attractive deep brown shade. The second pass was with a Garrison6'9" two piece rod that got the Garrison 350 deg for 7.5 minutetreatment......yielding a blonde tone. They will be fished about April. Once the heat gun status is upgraded, I should have a good (and low cost)unit. The next level up would be the type of ovens Wayne and Don Andersonhave described....double shells with circulating fans and electrical heatingelements. Go ahead and jump in on this one...you can get results in a hurrywith the gun. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Dec 27 09:28:28 1996 ; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 09:28:27 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 10:28:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Restoration questions from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 27 11:29:56 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA02468 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:29:54 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA20341 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 12:27:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Frank Lloyd Wright was among the staunchest advocates of form followingfunction. It was a mantra he used. But you can't charge big bucks ifthat form doesn't appeal to the consumer. Wright's work was clean,ordered, functional, and very beautiful. Moreso because everythingworked so well. I think that's a distinction that needs to be made. A beautiful flyrodthat casts like a shovel or caves-in on a 6" chub may be many things,but it has missed the mark of being functional and is therefor not aflyrod, but something else. But there is no reason for it to look ugly.Craftsmanship is the marriage of form and function. Hopefully, thebetter craftsman I become the more beauty I can incorporate intofunctional widgets. Remember that form is only one element of design. There are also things like line, hue, chroma, repetition, space,balance. How you use these is the expression of your personal style. And beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder. Just because theymake hot pink winding thread doesn't mean anyone should use it; unlessit fits with the overall design of the rod. FWIW, Brian C. > from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Dec 27 12:35:51 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA05307 for ;Fri, 27 Dec 1996 12:35:49 -0600 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Curry wrote: SealRite (of the Philadelphis SealRites : ) wrote:If you ever have an opportunity, pick up something written by JamesKrenov -a master cabinet maker. He stresses that form follows function -nothing inthe design should distract from the function. The function of the flyrod isto cast a fly, nothing in the design should distract from that originalpurpose, other than to celebrate the beauty of the bamboo - ergoaestheticbalance. If we acknowledge any value in the Bauhaus "form follows function"philosophy, then we must look more closely at the function(s) of a caneflyrod. Wayne's premise, with which I agree, is that casting the fly andplaying the fish (optional), and doing both with the requisite power anddelicacy for the situation, are the acknowledged functions of any fly rod-- cane, FRP, metal, etc.. However, since the material (cane) offers theopportunity to create an object of beauty, then this introduces a thirdfunction, aesthetic enjoyment, which, perhaps, should be acknowledgedas adesirable function, as well. Best regards,Reed To one and all,I know that I should kick myself soundly in the seat of my trousers for engaging in this.I am familiar with the work of Krenov and many others of the Crafts School. They make nice things. But, in truth, if form really follows function, how are we to account for all the superb ornimentation that is incorporated into furniture and architecture. Indeed, we can hold a religious service in a garage with no loss of content, But, how much more awesome are the worksof the great cathedrals. I think that the "form follows function" movement was a Hegelian attempt to achieve anew voice for a new time. I don't think that good balanced, ornimentation is ever out of place.And, after that, we come to Krenov himself. If form really follows function, there is no need to pay $25,000 for one of his most beautiful display cabinets in order to show off one's expensive bric-a-brac. Simply put your stuff in a cardboard box. After all, form follows function- doesn't it ??? from rcurry@jlc.net Fri Dec 27 12:38:53 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA05449 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 12:38:51 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA09649 for Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance And beauty is, after all, in the eye of the beholder. Just because theymake hot pink winding thread doesn't mean anyone should use it; unlessit fits with the overall design of the rod. FWIW, Brian C. > Brian,What is your source for hot pink silk winding thread? Do they have neon colors as well? And phosphoresent white for night fishing?Reed from rcurry@jlc.net Fri Dec 27 12:44:30 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA05906 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 12:44:28 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA09781 for Subject: Re: Restoration questions Hi All, I've been working my way towards planing my first cane, but so far mytimehas been put into restoring rods. I've got a couple of questions and I hopesome of you might be able to answer for me. I've removed the grip, reelseat and wooden reelseat-spacer from an 7'(2/1)Kingfisher rod. It's an early 20th century Montague-built rod fromreelseatdesign. I've reglued a long delaminated section under the cork grip. I usedTitebond II glue to re-glue the delaminated area. Don,I seem to recall that the Kingfisher make was produced by Heddon. Some of the Kingfishers had a (hideous?) rainbow winding on all guides, these were surprisingly nice rods to cast.Reed from jfoster@gte.net Fri Dec 27 18:33:20 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18743 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:33:18 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id SAA23497 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:33:16 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: antique rod (I think)] (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AutoCF) via ESMTP id LAA19633 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 11:28:23 -0600 (8.8.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA24048 for ; Fri, 27 Dec thomas.ge.com (8.8.4/8.7.5) with SMTP id MAA04968 for Organization: General Electric Subject: antique rod (I think) Goodday mate,Can u point me to resources to research this bamboo - INTERVALE rod myfather-in-law recently handed down to me ?? 8 1/2 feet six sidedThanks for whatever assist u can provide from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 27 18:40:19 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA18959 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:40:18 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA24215 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:37:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Are we building rods or pneumenons? John, your comments are right-on. And anyone who bring Hegelian realityinto a discussion gets a gold star. from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 27 18:41:21 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA19001 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 18:41:19 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA24223 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:38:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Cabella's has all the really good stuff, call their 800 number. from whensel@ix.netcom.com Fri Dec 27 18:50:31 1996 ; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 16:50:23 -0800 Subject: Mr. Cattanach Ovens "Where Art Thou" I never did get an E mail regarding the telephone number for the mica strip. Rocky Mountain Cane helped out thanks to Joe. I ordered the oven from you and since I never got a comfirmation perhaps you forgot. I know you are abusy man this time of year. But the oven is the only thing holding me up. So where do I stand? Like a kid waiting, Bill Hensel from heist@p2.acadia.net Fri Dec 27 19:40:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA20997 for; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 19:40:53 -0600 p2.acadia.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA25751 for ; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 21:55:59 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 27 Dec 1996 22:55:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance In a message dated 96-12-27 13:52:35 EST, you write: And, after that, we come to Krenov himself. If form really follows function, there is no need to pay $25,000 for one of his most beautiful display cabinets in order to show off one's expensive bric-a-brac. Simply put your stuff in a cardboard box. After all, form follows function- doesn't it ??? John -I think you are right. Personally, I consider the building of bamboo rods tobe an art. As far as the form/function thing goes, the function of mostproducts being manufactured these days seems to be to make $ for themanufacturers / owners / stockholders, etc. Take the $ out of theequationand see how much variety is produced. It is just this group's good fortunethat that which we so lovingly create can also be physically used withgreatpleasure as well as admired as art. An example: one point of aestheticbalance of importance to me is proportioning the hand grasp to the rest ofthe rod, yet still have it be of comfort in use for the particular rod beingmade; thus tho considered an art object, it is also a tool and function hasto have its place. So, in my view both form and function is important tothebamboo rod buildr. $ 0.02 Hope I havn't stepped on any toes !RTyree Ps - Not grinding an ax as I have no problem with those who build rodsspecifically to sell, including those seriously in the business. from FFer4trout@aol.com Sat Dec 28 07:37:49 1996 ; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 07:37:48 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 08:37:47 -0500 Subject: Urac Glue Gentlemen: Does anyone out there have more Urac glue than they can use before theexpiration date? I need just a small amount - for a scarf joint on a tipsection. Please e-mail me directly if you can help out. Thanks, Don Burns from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Dec 28 07:50:34 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA06637 for; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 07:50:32 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA04300 for Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance John Zimney wrote:To one and all,I know that I should kick myself soundly in the seat of my trousers for engaging in this. Why? I am familiar with the work of Krenov and many others of the Crafts School. They make nice things. But, in truth, if form really follows function, how are we to account for all the superb ornimentation that is incorporated into furniture and architecture. How indeed. I don't think that good balanced, ornimentation is ever out of place. I agree. I believe that the "F-F-F" premise was a reaction against *inappropriate* ornamentation. The age of "fripperies and geegaws"insisted upon decorating the simplest objects. (Imagine the additional labour and cost invested in a "gingerbread" house; that it wasn't aesthetically pleasing is evidenced by the fact that they were produced for such a short time.) A metal handplane was no better for adding 5 oz. of frivolous scrollwork, simply additional weight and uuuuuugly, too. And, after that, we come to Krenov himself. If form really follows function, there is no need to pay $25,000 for one of his most beautiful display cabinets in order to show off one's expensive bric-a-brac. Simply put your stuff in a cardboard box. After all, form follows function- doesn't it ??? Don't get me started on Krenov, Castle, etc. Remember that I wrote:If we acknowledge any value in the Bauhaus "form follows function"philosophy, then we must look more closely at the function(s) of a caneflyrod. I personally don't follow the "F-F-F" credo. But if I did, the only way the "F-F- F" paradigm (you knew I'd use that word eventually) would have any credibility with me was if I could acknowledge "beauty" as a function ofthe object. I would find that difficult with an FRP flyrod, but not with cane. With FRP, its "silk purse, sow's ear", but with cane it seems appropriateto make every attempt to accentuate the beauty of the natural materials asthey form the whole. What do you think, John? Whew, pontificating is hard work,Best regards,Reed from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Dec 28 08:05:13 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA06868 for; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 08:05:12 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.7.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA04586 for Subject: Re: Urac Glue Don Burns wrote:Gentlemen: Does anyone out there have more Urac glue than they can use before theexpiration date? I need just a small amount - for a scarf joint on a tipsection. Don,Why not use hide glue? It is thoroughly appropriate to the time period, and in fact, use of any other glue for relaminating will give you a different stiffness than the original. It was also used for scarf joints, tremendously strong, quick to set, easy to use, cures the common cold,etc. Happy new year,Reed from SealRite@aol.com Sat Dec 28 09:05:49 1996 ; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 09:05:48 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 10:05:47 -0500 Subject: Re: 'Binder In A Box' info I would be interested in purchasing one of your binder kits, along withpicking up a copy of your video. Let me how you would like to proceed. Iamin the middle of a rod right now and would like to upgrade. from wfmack@evansville.net Sat Dec 28 10:39:58 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09298 for; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 10:39:57 -0600 (Smail3.2 #2) id m0ve1ng-000hxMC; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 10:39:56 - Subject: Re: Informal Survey Chris Bogart wrote: Just for fun: Now that Xmas gifts have been recieved - how manyrodmakers got fish / fishing related gifts - real fishing equipmentdoesn't count. You know stuff like a santa fishing from a canoeornament, a fish bottle opener, books, and etc. Is it just my family,or is this a general society type state of mind towards peoplewho fish???? ChrisThis year it was limited to fishing books and a calendar, but in years past it has included foil-wrapped "fish" chocolates, tackle box tree ornaments, "antique" ice fishing rigs, an old galvanised minnow bucket (?!), book nameplates with middle ages pictures of fish on them, etc., etc. They mean a lot to me, even though many are far removed from fly fishing. It probably helps people to have something to type-cast us by when they are trying to figure out what to get us (my late grandmother was type-cast as a birder, which gave us something to look for when shopping for her, she was obviously much more complex than that, but this made it easy, and she got a kick out the items). I play up the superficial part of my fish/clean water/small boats/making stuff/solitude mania because it's too difficult (and sounds mighty pretentious) to actually try to explain it. Hope everyone on this list had a good holiday. Bill Mack from kmsmith@inx.net Sat Dec 28 10:55:18 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09654 for ;Sat, 28 Dec 1996 10:55:17 - 0600 (8.6.10/8.6.10) with SMTP id LAA26769 for; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 11:48:16 - 0500 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance Guess I'll also need to kick myself for getting into this.If the 'beauty is in function and form follows function'statements have a place in Fishing Rods - then why did the great rod builders add little bric-a-brac to their rods. Different wrappings to say I made this- or Signing the rod itself - stampings on reel seats all little ego trips to say I did this. But which had no function or even esthic value? I know I add my ID somewhere on all the rods I make.I even added a few wippings on a Squash Racket that I redid the handel of- just a little to say I did this.Kevin M Smith - guess I'm on ego trip - enjoy all yours letters.kmsmith@inx.net Curry wrote: John Zimney wrote:To one and all,I know that I should kick myself soundly in the seat of my trousers forengaging in this. Why? I am familiar with the work of Krenov and many others of the CraftsSchool. They make nice things. But, in truth, if form really followsfunction, how are we to account for all the superb ornimentation that isincorporated into furniture and architecture. How indeed. I don't think that good balanced, ornimentation isever out of place. I agree. I believe that the "F-F-F" premise was a reaction against*inappropriate* ornamentation. The age of "fripperies and geegaws"insistedupon decorating the simplest objects. (Imagine the additional labour andcost invested in a "gingerbread" house; that it wasn't aestheticallypleasing is evidenced by the fact that they were produced for such ashorttime.) A metal handplane was no better for adding 5 oz. of frivolousscrollwork, simply additional weight and uuuuuugly, too. And, after that, we come to Krenov himself. If form really followsfunction, there is no need to pay $25,000 for one of his most beautifuldisplay cabinets in order to show off one's expensive bric-a-brac.Simply put your stuff in a cardboard box. After all, form followsfunction- doesn't it ??? Don't get me started on Krenov, Castle, etc. Remember that I wrote:If we acknowledge any value in the Bauhaus "form follows function"philosophy, then we must look more closely at the function(s) of a caneflyrod. I personally don't follow the "F-F-F" credo. But if I did, the only way the"F-F-F" paradigm (you knew I'd use that word eventually) would have anycredibility with me was if I could acknowledge "beauty" as a function oftheobFz0H.g/- IHm/NP/p>/ training.pptnSLD3PPT3 @SLD3PPT3 @lw:G+HE6p+@IH+@I; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 16:47:29 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 17:47:29 -0500 Subject: AB Because of a 'little' problem at work I have missed a few days here. First I would like to extend a belated Merry Christmas and HappyHolidays to all.I was able to go 'Mall Crawling' with our daughter on Christmas Eve - areal delight and an interesting study in human interaction. The best that Isaw was the Tee shirt with "Here Fishy Fishy Fishy" imprinted on it - Ihavea pair of the boxer shorts with the fly motifAnyway - A lot of the posts I do come from questions that I hear fromthose that call or I see out and about. Because we have a fair size qrouplistening I feel that these questions may represent a typical cross sectionof that groups interests. The thought of aesthetic balance comes up as one grows in the craft -either for their personal pleasure - or with an eye to perhaps marketingrods notnecessarily a personal expression. The example would be - someone handsyou arod and asks you what you think about it. I caught up on reading the past posts and remember seeing the exampleofa Frank Lloyd Wright home - They are renown alright - especially for theirleaky flat roofs - Oops - so even in the best there are the flaws as well.I would think that most would agree that bamboo fly rod making hasfallen (or transended) from being the only product available torepresentingthe elite of the sport. The days of the Montaque and Heddons are past.Todaythe supply is from a cottage industry of a number of makers that maymake upto 50 or so rods a year with a number of hobbist makers completeing onlyahandful. Consequently over the years the 'quality' has risen as well as each'artist' strives to be at their best and the others follow until as a groupthe best bamboo fly rods are being made today.The idea of the original post wasn't to dictate what AB was but to getothers to share the details they feel should be included so that thosewanting to know would have the information.Reed made a comment of a rod a while back. The rod was appreciatedforits casting and not its 'beauty'. I know that the rod I fish with has lost alittle of its charm laying on the dashboard of my truck for the past 12summers. Or has it? Flyfishing itself exceeds the function - that can beaccomplished with a tag alder and a worm. Let's face it - we don't flyfishjust to catch fish. And for the serious minded flyfisher casting is pinnacleof the aesthetics of a rod.Like it or not the unfortunate truth of the sport is that there IS alot of emphasis on the visual as well. Think about it - we release the fish-so the only 'antlers' that we have to show are those items that we use inthechase. Besides the art work of the 'toys' you see works of art of the flies,rivers, and the moments not to mention the numerous books that touch onthethought and not the tactic. Happy HolidaysWayne Ps - Cheri - our daughter,Lyndi (15 going on 30), goes with us to all theshows and get togethers - and has always felt comfortable with the group- soif you get an opportunity come along - I'm sure that you and her can be'buds' from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sat Dec 28 18:27:18 1996 ; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 16:27:13 -0800 Subject: Re: Mr. Cattanach Ovens "Where Art Thou" You wrote: Bill -I finally got the metal parts from Gordy this afternoon - It will beshipped monday - I will sent tracking info when I have it - ETA for UPS willbe about 5 - 6 working days. With the Holidays it has been a bit hectic andI apologize for any delays that I have caused. To be sure that you have the right contact info for the mica heater - Grand Technologies4616 44th StreetGrand Rapids, MI 49512616 - 940 - 3345 PS - The needed High temp wire will be included with the cabinet assy - sothat is dealt with Wayne Thanks for the quick reply and I look forward to the arrival of the oven. Sorry if I was a pain in the..... Best Regards and happy new year, Bill Hensel from jfoster@gte.net Sat Dec 28 19:41:48 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22721 for; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 19:41:47 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id TAA03309 for; Sat, 28 Dec 1996 19:41:40 -0600 Subject: Web Site Gang I hate to be redundant, again, but as I've said I'm revamping the pageand I'd like to at least provide a list of those of you (rodcreators)who desire, or show the link to your home pages if you have them...so ifyou'd please respond i'll get it done.. If you'd like to send me yourbusiness card I'll scan it in also. Jerry Foster175 Brown Cliff Ct.Double Oak, Tx 75067 from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sat Dec 28 19:45:37 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22862 for ;Sat, 28 Dec 1996 19:45:36 - 0600 Subject: Re: Aesthetic Balance I am reluctant to engage on a discussion of esthetics because it is best done late a night over a slightly more than moderate quantity of a single malt.But I must say that a "good" cane rod, be it fast or slow, long or short, has an organic/lyrical truth to it that strikes me as what most would call beautiful - in the way of a great melody or perhaps a great poem. John from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Dec 29 08:47:26 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA07316 for; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 08:47:24 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA374 0700 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Reels Having built my first few bamboo rods, I am looking for a reel to matchup with them. The shinny new black jobs at the local fly shop are notwhat I had in mind. Do any of you on the list have some suggestions? Cananyone tell me about the reels made by Balan, Peerles or Robichaud? Theyhave old style looks, are there problems with them? What about usedreels? Does anyone have good or bad experience with the used reeldealers?~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208- 622-8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from heist@p2.acadia.net Sun Dec 29 10:10:34 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA08890 for; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 10:10:32 -0600 p2.acadia.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA09589 for Subject: where to get bamboo I am thinking about building a bamboo rod and I need to know where to getthe bamboo and about how much it might cost?ThanksJerry Heist from rbrown@infocom.net Sun Dec 29 11:16:34 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA10494 for ;Sun, 29 Dec 1996 11:16:31 - 0600 login1.infocom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id LAA02945 for; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 11:17:43 -0600 Organization: Home Subject: New rod bulder Am in need of parts to build oven for heat treating bamboo components. "Please" send info and/or directions. ThanksRob from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Dec 29 15:45:59 1996 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15932 for ;Sun, 29 Dec 1996 15:45:58 - 0600 QAA05956 for ; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 16:45:45 Subject: New year nodeless To the list; 12/29/96A question for the new year for you builders of nodeless rods: Now thatwe've dispensed with the problems of nodes and node staggering, what areyour thoughts about staggering of splices? Happy New Year. Bill Fink from JHecht9234@aol.com Sun Dec 29 18:23:02 1996 ; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 18:23:01 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:23:01 -0500 Subject: Heat treating oven Does anyone have experience with the heat gun ovens built by WilliamSenecalin Massachusetts. I saw an ad for his ovens in The Planing Form andthoughtthis might be an easy way to get set up. Would appreciate any advice. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Dec 29 19:53:39 1996 ; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:53:38 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 20:53:37 -0500 Subject: Re: New year nodeless In a message dated 96-12-29 16:55:03 EST, you write: To the list; 12/29/96A question for the new year for you builders of nodeless rods: Now thatwe've dispensed with the problems of nodes and node staggering, whatareyour thoughts about staggering of splices? Happy New Year. Bill Fink Bill: Have only done one nodeless and not a pretty sight because of poorplanning (not planing). I erred in not having uniform widths of pre- splicedpieces and hence the same with the spliced sticks. That caused somemismatching of splices, especially since I did not necessarily take anequalamount off each side when planing. The result was different distancesbetween splices. To answer your question, it seems that prudence woulddictate staggering the splices one way or another and I plan to do so onfuture nodeless work. from an engineering standpoint, what do you think? Best Regards and Happy New YearRichard Tyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Dec 29 19:53:41 1996 ; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 19:53:40 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 20:53:39 -0500 Subject: Re: Reels In a message dated 96-12-29 14:59:35 EST, you write: Having built my first few bamboo rods, I am looking for a reel to matchup with them. The shinny new black jobs at the local fly shop are notwhat I had in mind. Do any of you on the list have some suggestions? Cananyone tell me about the reels made by Balan, Peerles or Robichaud? Theyhave old style looks, are there problems with them? What about usedreels? Does anyone have good or bad experience with the used reeldealers? Philip: Presently the Pflueger Medalist reels are good buy if you are notgoing for top of the line items. Actually, a lot of the early Fly Fishermanissues had cover pictures of bamboo rods equipped with the Medalist reels.The classic tackle lists usually have a lot of them along with used Hardyreels which compliment bamboo very well. Some sources: Classic Rods & Tackle - Marty Keane - 413-229-7988 Catalog style list;MassRods & Reels - Bob Corsetti - 603-886-0411 " "" NHHeritage Sporting Collectibles - Len Codella - 352-637-5454 " "" FLTackle Listing - Phil Snyder - 714-870-7401 - Letter style listCAThe Classic Angler - http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/equipcat.htm - COor Classic Angler - Dick Spur - 970-243-8780 - Quarterly newsletter Hope this helps.Richard Tyree from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Dec 29 20:57:14 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA23874 for; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 20:57:11 -0600 Mon, 30 Dec 1996 10:57:06 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: New year nodeless I'm making sure the direction of the scarf alternates, and trying to stagger them a bit depending on the splines themselves.I don't worry too much about stagering them as you would a noded(?) rod as it's virtually impossible to see the scarf. My concern is avoiding scarf failure if too many scarfs line up around the same cross section.This still aught not cause a failure anyhow as the glue line is by far strong enough to not pose a problem but it seems good form.I made a test section and intentionaly lined up the scarfs and broke it. The scarfs didn't fail, the blank just broke as if it were a section without scarfs, ie. it broke across the joints, not along them.I might add though that I'm using a fairly long scarf ratio of 1:20 but I'm going to decrease the angle as I think it's a liitle more than needed. Now I have a question.I'm getting a problem of the binding parting on the male ferrule at the junction of the end of the ferrule and the cane. It's obviously where the cane flexes and the ferrule dosn't enough. What am I missing? Tony. To the list; 12/29/96A question for the new year for you builders of nodeless rods: Now thatwe've dispensed with the problems of nodes and node staggering, whatareyour thoughts about staggering of splices? Happy New Year. Bill Fink /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Dec 29 21:02:52 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA24083 for; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 21:02:49 -0600 Mon, 30 Dec 1996 11:02:44 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: New year nodeless I forgot to mention that I use a jig to plane the scarfs.It's just a block of wood with a 6mm router slot at the correct angle with another block glued over the slot so you wind up with a block of wood with a square hole running through it.I plane all sides (except the enamel of course) prior to planing the scarf, this way your working with equal dimensions. Make sure the scarfs are the same length and angle and you'll hardly see them when finished. Tony (again) To the list; 12/29/96A question for the new year for you builders of nodeless rods: Nowthatwe've dispensed with the problems of nodes and node staggering, whatareyour thoughts about staggering of splices? Happy New Year. Bill Fink Bill: Have only done one nodeless and not a pretty sight because of poorplanning (not planing). I erred in not having uniform widths of pre- splicedpieces and hence the same with the spliced sticks. That caused somemismatching of splices, especially since I did not necessarily take anequalamount off each side when planing. The result was different distancesbetween splices. To answer your question, it seems that prudence woulddictate staggering the splices one way or another and I plan to do so onfuture nodeless work. from an engineering standpoint, what do youthink? Best Regards and Happy New YearRichard Tyree /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Dec 29 22:51:19 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA26777 for; Sun, 29 Dec 1996 22:51:18 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA363 0700 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Heat treating oven I have one of these ovens. It works very well for me. It is small andeasy to store out of the way. The heat is relatively consistent (+/- 25degrees) and it was easy to learn how to adjust and control thetemperature. I purchased it before I had a chance to see WayneCattanaugh's oven. Since Wayne has put his oven together in a kit, it isa very attractive package. Wayne sells this oven kit at his cost whichis a generous offer. You can save money but you will have to put in abit of sweat equity and assemble the parts. Personally, I like Wayne'soven because you do not have to put up with the roar of a heat gun. Itis large enough to heat set a wooden rod case if you want to build oneand you can set it to a low heat like 100 degrees to hold and dry bamboosections before gluing. JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have experience with the heat gun ovens built by WilliamSenecalin Massachusetts. I saw an ad for his ovens in The Planing Form andthoughtthis might be an easy way to get set up. Would appreciate any advice. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton, PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from DIXALEE@aol.com Mon Dec 30 01:52:01 1996 ; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 01:52:00 -0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 02:52:00 -0500 Subject: Re: should I make a bamboo rod Before I went too much further I would pick up a copy of WayneCattanach'sbook. It will provide most of the answers you seek. A.J.Thramer from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon Dec 30 07:34:26 1996 HAA10496 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 07:34:25-0600 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA14706 for; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 08:34:24 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: AB Priority: normal Hello all: Wayne Catt wrote:I was able to go 'Mall Crawling' with our daughter on Christmas Eve -areal delight and an interesting study in human interaction. The best thatIsaw was the Tee shirt with "Here Fishy Fishy Fishy" imprinted on it - Ihavea pair of the boxer shorts with the fly motifThe tee shirt I got has a fly on it and says: Whip meStrip meTie meFly me Reed sez: (welcome back)I personally don't follow the "F-F-F" credo. But if I did, the onlyway the "F-F-F" paradigm (you knew I'd use that word eventually) wouldhave any credibility with me was if I could acknowledge "beauty" as afunction of the object. I consider beauty a function.... when I'm buying. When I'm building and not considering selling these for my livelihood, I don't. Someone said something about being a craftsman is being able to76MPWYCE"Y)Anti-aliased PICT8BAM8BIM8BAM8BIMk3_9pPNCfPNC2@0k'OGX%Norton FileSaver DataPNCfl`8BAM>AONqNq`^Jxk"0IN_"_0JgF`F.N_NVR O!n1n B(B(Bp` @Rf"n2=@N^ _OO N_NVR O1n=@ N^ _TN_Q`PNVR O!n 1n"n !Q$Bh,B.Jf`=@"n "(N^"_OO N_NV O!n 1n=@N^"_\N_NVR O1n =@"n"N^"_\N_NVR O1n1n ,!n.D=@N^"_PN_ o?,&_ KJ/NB?BHx|$_HzdHn/ KIL N^NuNuNVU/ Nj(Q=|/. ?.HnUHnUHn/B>p`|-|'O4?Hn l/(D _N ao'WD-|?Hn l/(D _N SA%WDR-|4?Hn l/(D _N !Y.WDR-|1O?Hn l/(D _N OWDRJfBg?B>p`pLN^NuNVO/. ?.HnHn^HnO nf/.^? n (g0/. l hN` n JPf lJg/. l hN(_nON^Nt NV_NJg6B/-_I nIJ/.INXB?BHx|- _O`LB/BTp`@ nIJ/.INXB? nm|[J.g(B/B>9|`B/JGg9G`UBg?.HnNUF .")HV Tf?JGg9G lV* lV#`fBg?.NUB>9| lV* lV#`N8Jf9| lV* lV#`, l:o9|: l)l:B)l6F)l:J0,LAH9@L0,JAH9@J)lFN)lJRXlJ lLo9|LJ,Zg l1| l1|` l1| l1|p0lL"$JGg9| lV* lV#`BgHl&?BBB JGg"9| lV* lV#/,* 9lfBJf:,f` l:(l9| l1|2 lBh. l hf lBh0` l1|00,D l!@80lD"l#H4 l!l2" lHh&Bg?,?(0,_E? l0h/0lHpPNE.*B E-lBI- lF- lJJDXopv`f0r h=@I0.I@=@O0rh=@,0.,@=@E?.,?.xHn/,VHlN^ l*Hh"l&HiHnHnEBgBIR0DҚbJnAob=nI0.I_nA=@O0rh=@,0.AAH_n,=@E?.,?.xHn/,VHlN^ l*Hh"l&HiHnHnEBgBI/,"/, NuNVNIf"/ NI^(Q U~CI0DDd_>DDd>DDUUUUUU""""""333333DDDDDDffffffwwwwww춶AAAAAA>>>>>>OOOOOO !!!!!!######$$$$$$%%%%%%&&&&&&''''''(((((())))))******++++++,,,,,,------ ......//////000000111111222222444444555555666666777777888888999999::::::;;;;;;>>>>>??????@@@@@@AAAAAABBBBBBCCCCCCEEEEEEFFFFFFGGGGGGHHHHHHIIIIIIJJJJJJKKKKKKLLLLLLMMMMMMNNNNNNOOOOOOPPPPPPQQQQQQRRRRRRSSSSSSTTTTTTVVVVVVWWWWWWXXXXXXYYYYYYZZZZZZ[[[[[[\\\\\\]]]]]]^^^^^^______``````aaaaaabbbbbbccccccddddddeeeeeegggggghhhhhhiiiiiijjjjjjkkkkkkllllllmmmmmmnnnnnnooooooppppppqqqqqqrrrrrrssssssttttttuuuuuuvvvvvvxxxxxxyyyyyyzzzzzz{{{{{{||||||}}}}}}~~~~~~ꀀaaaaaaⰰ㧧ooooooů''''''OOOOOOʔoooooo AAAAAAOOOOOORRRRRRrrrrrr____________""""""""""""``````''''''YYYYYY//////<<<<<<,,,,,,AAAAAAEEEEEEAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU^^^^^^~~~~~~ !!!!!!!"""""""#######$$$$$$$%%%%%%%&&&&&&&'''''''((((((()))))))*******+++++++,,,,,,,------- .......///////0000000111111122222223333333444444455555556666666777777788888889999999:::::::;;;;;;;>>>>>>???????@@@@@@@AAAAAAABBBBBBBCCCCCCCDDDDDDDEEEEEEEFFFFFFFGGGGGGGHHHHHHHIIIIIIIJJJJJJJKKKKKKKLLLLLLLMMMMMMMNNNNNNNOOOOOOOPPPPPPPQQQQQQQRRRRRRRSSSSSSSTTTTTTTUUUUUUUVVVVVVVWWWWWWWXXXXXXXYYYYYYYZZZZZZZ[[[[[[[\\\\\\\]]]]]]]^^^^^^^_______```````aaaaaaabbbbbbbcccccccdddddddeeeeeeefffffffggggggghhhhhhhiiiiiiijjjjjjjkkkkkkklllllllmmmmmmmnnnnnnnooooooopppppppqqqqqqqrrrrrrrssssssstttttttuuuuuuuvvvvvvvwwwwwwwxxxxxxxyyyyyyyzzzzzzz{{{{{{{|||||||}}}}}}}~~~~~~~ꀀaaaaaaaⰰ㧧oooooooů'''''''OOOOOOOʔooooooo AAAAAAAAAAAAAAOOOOOOORRRRRRRrrrrrrr______________""""""""""""""```````'''''''YYYYYYY///////<<<<<<<>>>>>>>,,,,,,,AAAAAAAEEEEEEEAAAAAAAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU^^^^^^^~~~~~~~6A$#OK.AB#Cancel+^;a+(;VWidth:E^UaE%UUHeight:+;(pixels)EU(pixels)g w8Mode:yaz Gray Scaleѣz RGB Colorew2Constrain Proportions YImage Size: ^^9M Cancel F-:Could not continue because 32bit QuickDraw is not present.H9M Cancel F-$There was an error opening the file.d@TCancel F6"?Sorry, this plugin requires Adobe Photoshop specific features. &6>Anti-Aliased PICT&6>Anti-Aliased PICTA>( 8BIMkind8BAM8BIMnameAnti-aliased PICT8BIMvers8BIMprty8BIMhost8BIM8BIMm68k8BAM>AAnti-aliased PICT v3.0$ W/5 1990-1994 Adobe Systems Incorporated WA Photoshop plug-in module to perform anti-aliased rasterization of object PICT files.23.0'3.0 1990-94 Adobe Systems Incorporated76I- f 8BAMZDLGXfckid~ALRTplttclutdctbDITL"DLOGPiPL2vers>>P >p>d> '>A>%~> >*> 2)> 25>-3o>93_>H4> 5> 4@u 4O> 4Y?z 46qI ProjectorNo 32bit QDResource errorToo oldNo 32bit QDresource errortoo oldAnti-aliased PICTrt" Priority: Normal Subject: Re: New year nodeless Tony Your problem with the wrap spliting on the maleferrule at the junction of the cane and ferrule - commonproblem - this area has maximum transfer of stresses.Two possile solutions - first Wayne reccomends sandingthe ferrule tabs to a point (see the book) second and oneI find helps most is center the tabs (pointed or not) onthe edge of flats not on the center. Lastly use strongerthread on the ferrule wrap - go one size larger if all elsefails. Chris from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 30 19:11:29 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11170 for; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:11:27 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21562 for; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:08:51 -0500 Subject: Re: AB Two yeas ago my wif egot me a shirt that had a picture of a leapingtrout (spp??) and had the legend;"The quickest way to a fisherman's heart is through his fly." Well, of course it is . . . . from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 30 19:14:08 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11248 for; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:14:06 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21597 for; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:11:30 -0500 Subject: Re: should I make a bamboo rod Frank, That offer good here in Michigan too??!!?? Brian C. > from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 30 19:15:18 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11319 for; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:15:17 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA21613 for; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 20:12:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Handyman Specials For Sale Rich, Any Heddon 50 or 100's in the lot?? Brian C. > from heist@p2.acadia.net Mon Dec 30 19:22:54 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA11694 for; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:22:53 -0600 p2.acadia.net (8.7.6/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA10215 for Subject: Re: should I make a bamboo rod Before I went too much further I would pick up a copy of WayneCattanach'sbook. It will provide most of the answers you seek.A.J.Thramer Thanks I'm about to order it. My other option is to buy a bamboo blank andI heard you made an excellent one for John Johnson. Jerry Heist from rklmeb@tiac.net Mon Dec 30 19:31:08 1996 ; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 19:31:06 -0600 maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id UAA16060 for zork.tiac.net (8.8.2/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id UAA13977 for Subject: Re: Handyman Specials For Sale Rich,Please send me your list of handyman specials. I'm always looking forinteresting projects at a good price. Thanks!Richard Lodge from ddm7t@faraday.clas.virginia.edu Mon Dec 30 23:10:32 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA18671 for; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:10:31 -0600 31 Dec 96 0:10 EST (8.7.6/8.6.6) id AAA65626 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 31 Dec1996 00:10:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Handyman Specials For Sale at Dec 30, 96 02:09:33 pm Hi Rich, I'm always interested in the right project rod and I'd like tosee what you have. Dave Makel ddm7t@virginia.edu from bootstrap@earthlink.net Mon Dec 30 23:44:00 1996 XAA19717 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 23:43:58-0600 VAA00952 for ; Mon, 30 Dec 1996 21:43:53 Subject: Re: should I make a bamboo rod Sure, just tell me something about yourself, your background and skillwithtools. If I'm impressed as I was with Jerry's, I'll extend the offer. Callme at (303)7435-1353 and we can talk. Frank from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue Dec 31 07:09:48 1996 HAA00439 for ; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 07:09:47-0600 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA18646 for; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 08:09:46 -0500 Comments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: renting stuff to beginners Priority: normal Hi Frank, Hmmm, you got me thinking... I am currently in the process of building my first rod. I'm getting close to the point of planing, I made a set of hardwood forms, but I still have some reservations as to their accuracy, but then again I'm not sure how many of these things I will build. I guess it depends on how much fun it is, so far, its been alot of fun. I'll extend the same deal I offered Jerry to anyone who seemsserious about getting started. In thinking about it more and more, the offer you gave is actually very generous and is a good deal. Not to mention the headaches involved in keeping track of your rental forms.To quote Miss Emily Litella: "Never mind". I will give your offer serious consideration tho, but I think I will give the hardwood forms a try. If I feel compelled to build more rods, I'll upgrade. Thanks for the timely response.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from whensel@ix.netcom.com Tue Dec 31 09:37:09 1996 dfw-ix4.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA23532 for; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 07:37:03 -0800 Subject: Re: renting stuff to beginners You wrote: Hi Frank, Hmmm, you got me thinking... I am currently in the process of building my first rod. I'm getting close to the point of planing, I made a set of hardwood forms, but I still have some reservations as to their accuracy, but then again I'm not sure how many of these things I will build. I guess it depends on how much fun it is, so far, its been alot of fun. I'll extend the same deal I offered Jerry to anyone who seemsserious about getting started. In thinking about it more and more, the offer you gave is actually very generous and is a good deal. Not to mention the headaches involved in keeping track of your rental forms.To quote Miss Emily Litella: "Never mind". I will give your offer serious consideration tho, but I think I will give the hardwood forms a try. If I feel compelled to build more rods, I'll upgrade. Thanks for the timely response.Tom Ausfeld (Tom@sp1.hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering Hello Tom, I was at the same point you are at when I witnessed a local Rod maker preform the final planing on a piece of bambo. My wife saw the process and she instantly agreed that in order to control the final out come of my first rod to the greatist degree I should order one of Bootstrps metal forms. When I arrived home I did just that and I have sleep alot better knowing that all the work I have put into the rod so far will not be in vain.Besides the forms are really cool and if one takjes a close look at all the successful rod builders they all have metal forms. It is the reference point that all your efforts will be linked with. Its like gold no matter how will you can drive the ball off the tee and up to the green, if you can't putt you score will always be poor.I have no personal relationship with Frank Armbrerwster or a business one either. It is clear that he is attempting to guide beginners in a direction that will elevate their experience along witha quality rod.The quality of his forms is fantastic and cannot be made better. Therefore, it can be surmised that one could get his money backout of the forms if one wanted to. It has come down to this in my life: take the bigscreen, the sterio, all my vhf ham gear but your have to fight it out if you want my: HF Drake B Line ( amature radio gear american made in the 60s), my Bambo Rods, my fly tying bench, my 22 Rifles, my little Dodge fishing Truck, and finally my METAL PLANING FORMS.If that seems radical it is....fishing with Bamboo means ....everything to me and it allows me to listen to the words of planet earth and dance with rythms of life. In a world of I want it now, fishing with a hand crafted rod is a tradition that keeps me from being totally cynical.Life has few absolutes but I have a funny feeling Metal Forms made available to us by Bootstrapp is ONE OF THEM. Long winded but from the heart and soul of Bill Hensel from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 31 10:39:40 1996 1996 10:39:39 -0600 Dec 1996 11:39:32 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: New year nodeless To Richard et al,I've run into the same problem with my first nodeless rod- thestaggering a la Garrison didn't work out due to nonuniform strip width. Itcasts pretty well though. I hope to do better on the next one.Hank W. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 31 10:50:20 1996 1996 10:50:18 -0600 Dec 1996 11:50:02 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: New year nodeless Tony,I'm going to assume you're talking about the thread wraps having thefinish splitting where the metal and the cane meet. This (in myexperience)comes from not feathering the metal flutings enuf making the transitionfromcane to ferrule too abrupt. Of course down under gravity may do strangethings :.)Happy New Year,Hank Woolman from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 31 11:01:08 1996 1996 11:01:07 -0600 Dec 1996 12:01:00 -0500 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: New year nodeless Tony,I forgot about centering the ferrule tabs on the rod edges not theflats. Sometimes I take for granted that everybody knows certain stepsandleave some things out. Probably the onset of Altheimer's-at least my wifethinks so.Good luck,Hank W. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Dec 31 12:34:57 1996 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA13890 for; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 12:34:56 -0600 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA016337293; Tue, 31 Dec 1996 10:34:53 - 0800Ham ExportE8BEM8BIM8BEM8BIM87TW^%"%"ImageWriterColor..rsrc%< button ModelRb`8BEMBhAONqNq`NN.N>NVNNNN _24XWJBgN _24WJBgN _24Bn Am_@A0gN //A"//_HAHGǂ0HG2Nu$&,,b邮2.HGRHG"ebDNuS@`PNV/ 0. jD@2.jDA@lAJAfBn `HAHAHA=A N^ _XON_@@@@@@@@@@ @ @@@@@@ @$@(@- @2@7@MbMMMrMUNN=NbNNN_N^OOBOgOOO/PP&PMPtPoPPEQQ7Q_QQQQR&RNRvRRRSSBSkSSSETT9TcTTTUU5U_UUUV V4V_VVVW W7WcWWWEXX>XjXXXOYYHYuYYRYZ(ZUZa"_NuB' l!8/( _NNuNV/./. l!8/( _NN^NuNuNVHA>,Q,!pGEOA@H L__9h1! 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