from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Feb 1 01:24:45 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 01:24:43 -0600 Subject: Re: Corey steel co -OOPS 0f 95 I recieved a letter that updated me with their current address andphone numbers - Well somehow I typed it into the wrong list so for thoselooking to contact tem try the following: Corey Steel Company2800 S. 61 st CTCicero, IL 60650 or Corey Steel CompanyP. O. Box 5137Chicago, IL 60680 - 5137 Phone 708 - 863 - 8000Fax 708 - 863 - 1288 FYI - The 7/8" rod stock works well for reel seats - it weights 2 1/8 #perfoot and it is sold in 12' lengths at about $10/ pound Wayne from dcanny@mhtc.net Sat Feb 1 07:35:33 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA25139 for; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 07:35:31 -0600 pearl.mhtc.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA06910 for Subject: 1882 patented Orvis rod Ment to add that the handle and reelseat are separate, with the bottom of the butt's male ferrule fitting into the top of the handle's female ferrule. David from FFer4trout@aol.com Sat Feb 1 10:53:56 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 10:53:55 -0600 Subject: Re: l882 patented orvis rod In a message dated 97-01-31 23:48:29 EST, you write: Subj: l882 patented orvis rodDate: 97-01-31 23:48:29 ESTFrom: dcanny@mhtc.net (David Canny)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hi,Saw an Orvis 9.5' 1882 patent date, with strip cork grip, ns reelseat with simple slip ring today in an antique store. In good shape, two tips full length, one tiptop missing. Cloth bag and round wood case also in good shape. Any idea what the value would range on this?Also saw a very unusual hexagon rod, 10.5', wood handle with turnedrings to imitate ratan painted black, the rod was nicely wrapped with leather as a finished surface. Has anyone heard of this. I have never read anything about this practice. Any info would be appreciated. Thankyou in advance. David David, I'd think these rods are now best used for wall-hanging or for a museum.Value would be more for their historical interest. Contact Len Cordella inFL(352 637-5454) or Martin Keane in Mass. (413 229-7988) for an idea oftheirvalue. Orvis could give you some info. on the Orvis rod, they have greatrecords. Don Burns from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 1 11:51:55 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 11:51:54 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Bill and Hank l've been reading your b.s for alittle while now and want to jump back in. luse the graph method for plotting tapers because its the only thing l canunderstand . Stress curves would be the soul of a rod but sometimes thatsoul is pretty well hidden , if you try to do the math backwards ( startwitha taper and work back to get a curve )you end up with a very radical curve. lt has something to do with the thewaythe numbers are rounded off , when your dealing with sq, and cube roots. The only reason l,ve tried this is because if l use one of the stress curvesin waynes or garrisons book , all my rods would be that type of action andlprefer something alittle different, not to say that those rods are bad. Justthat l like something more Dickerson like . l was wondering if either of you have fooled around with straight tapers?Thanks Gary from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 1 13:45:54 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 13:45:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Gary,Most of the tapers I've liked have been straight tapers, with a littlevariation here and there-sometimes I parabolic the tips slightly-I haveyetto build a full parabolic. That's next on the agenda after I finish my secondnodeless.Hank. from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 1 16:24:59 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:24:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Hank Have you used a taper of .014x 5 inches ? This is somewhat a favorite ofmine niceto use . Another l like is a three peice taper .013 -.014- .015 . it's not bad in atwo peice configuration . This can be flipped around and a dry fly or wetflyaction will result.How fast a taper have you tried ?? and what did you think of it ? l've goneas far as .018 x 5 and found it to be a very fast rod compared to what l hadbeen making . l'll have to wait until spring to really try it out . Thanks Gary from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 1 16:52:42 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 16:52:39 -0600 Subject: Rod builders meeting Hello list Just thought that l should post another notice about the meeting inPortlandOregon this coming April 12th . lf anyone is interested in attending thereare a few spaces left please contact me thanks Gary Lohkamp glohkamp@ aol .com from Fquinchat@aol.com Sat Feb 1 19:21:47 1997 ; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 19:21:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Gary: You mention preference for Dickerson like tapers. Do you have the taperfora 8014 Guide? I'd like to build one. Dennis, Brighton MI from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Feb 1 20:20:12 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA21534 for; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 20:20:10 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA10812 for Subject: Re: l882 patented orvis rod David,I have handled an Orvis of that vintage. The "wet fly" (straight taper)action is not to modern tastes, so I believe few would purchase such anitem for use. (I enjoy that type of rod, sometimes.) But if you can getit for a reasonable price ($125 or less), you might have a rod for thoselazy summer days.Best regards,Reed from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 1 22:29:24 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA28022 for; Sat, 1 Feb 1997 22:29:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Varnish Karl wrote: At 11:08 31/01/97 -0500, you wrote:Here are a couple of varnish questions: 1) I have only used spar varnish up till now. I have a little one-piece rodwith a second coat drying now. Drying time is always slow on thismaterial,but I wondered if I could help myself with a little heat. Nothing dramatic,just a tube with a 100 watt bulb for a gentle column of heated air. Anycomments on this process ? Tis the process I use - a cabinet with a 100W bulb - @ room temperatureinthe surroundings - inside the cabinet is about 95F. Keeps most of the dustoff too! I try to wait until the feel has no tack to it and then 4-0 steel wool thesurface for the next coat. This is the first wipe-on finish I've tried andthings look promising. 2) After some dialog with Don Anderson, Jonathan Clarke and few otherfolks,I'm setup tp try polyurethane and tung oil test finishes on the next coupleof rods.The tung oil seems straightforward enough, but the drying cycle on thepolyurethane is a problem. The can instructions clearly say that therecoattime should be about 8 hours....before the preceeding coat completelydries.On the other hand, I have some notes from a post on the list that sayswait24 hours and do the steel wool drill before coating. What is a provenrecoatcycle? Both work - the secret is to have a "tooth" on the previous coating for thenext coating to bind onto. If a chemical "tooth" - recoat time as cansuggests - for mechanical "tooth" use steel wool or equivalent. Note thatthe recoat time is interdepentant on both humidity and temperature - forAtlanta's humidity and temp. [ especially if your heating cabinet works]recoat time could be cut to 4>5 hours. regards, Don Always appreciate your generous comments. Karl Hube from JHecht9234@aol.com Sun Feb 2 11:01:08 1997 ; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:01:02 -0600 Subject: Lathe question I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. I haveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, a goodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed would be helpful. Latheless in D.C. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Feb 2 11:51:41 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA01513 for ;Sun, 2 Feb 1997 11:51:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. I haveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, agoodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed thatwould be helpful. Latheless in D.C. If all you want to do is to turn ferrule stations with abrasive paper mounted on a block of wood and do cork handels. You might well consider a wood lathe with a three-jaw chuck mounted. I know where a good Rockwell wood lathe is for pretty cheap.John from santiago@ricochet.net Sun Feb 2 13:01:21 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA03546 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 13:01:19 -0600 Organization: Home Subject: Re: Lathe question John Zimny wrote: JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. Ihaveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, agoodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed thatwould be helpful. Latheless in D.C. If all you want to do is to turn ferrule stations with abrasive papermounted on a block of wood and do cork handels. You might well considera wood lathe with a three-jaw chuck mounted. I know where a goodRockwell wood lathe is for pretty cheap.John john, if latheless in DC doesn't consider this, please let me know as i am looking for such a lathe and cheap... leo 206.440.2895 pst. thanks much! from JHecht9234@aol.com Sun Feb 2 18:05:36 1997 ; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:05:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question Would be interested in info. on wood lathe. Please post or e-mail medirectly. Thanks. from 73251.1513@CompuServe.COM Sun Feb 2 18:53:34 1997 SAA14983 for ; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 18:53:33 -0600 Subject: Lie-Nelson Plane I recently noted that Lie-Nelson has included a block plane in the toolstheyoffer. Has anyone had any experience using the plane? I have been using aRecord with a Hoch blade with very good success. I have also used a Lie-Nelsonscraper which is a beautifully made tool and a joy just to hold in oneshand. from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Feb 2 20:20:01 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18585 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:19:50 -0600 Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:19:31 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane I dont't *think* the LN block plane has an adjustable throat? Tony I recently noted that Lie-Nelson has included a block plane in the toolstheyoffer. Has anyone had any experience using the plane? I have been usingaRecord with a Hoch blade with very good success. I have also used a Lie-Nelsonscraper which is a beautifully made tool and a joy just to hold in oneshand. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Feb 2 20:23:11 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA18679 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 20:22:57 -0600 Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:22:49 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lathe question I have the metric model 4100, I think the one you'd be looking at would be the 4000. This model has a shorter bed than is available and wouls serve well enough. I like mine a lot.They have a page which you can locate using YAHOO which has pricelistsas well as info sheets. Worth a look if you're interested.I guess you'd pay circa $500 in the US. Tony I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. I haveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, agoodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed thatwould be helpful. Latheless in D.C. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 2 21:10:30 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA20087 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:10:29 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id VAA06534 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:10:24 -0600 Subject: Binders Chris submitted a great article on tuning the Garrison binder.you can find it under "Tips" also has a good picture of his binder andshop. Jerry from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Feb 2 21:18:14 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA20315 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:18:13 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA389 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Lie-Nelson Plane Karl: Lie-Nelson makes a beautiful small block plane. I use mine for thefinishing cuts on all my sections. It may not be in their catalog butthey do make a model with an adjustable throat. The throat plate is heldin place with two small screws. They include an extra plate. You canremove the plate and file it to the clearance you want. The Lie-Nelsonplane is shorter and narrower than either the Stanley of Record planes.I like the heft of the Stanley to bring strips down to the planing form.The width helps keep me from digging into the form. But I like theLie-Nelson when I am trying to remove the last half thousandth becausethe small plane is easier to handle. KARL W. ALMQUIST wrote: I recently noted that Lie-Nelson has included a block plane in the toolstheyoffer. Has anyone had any experience using the plane? I have been usingaRecord with a Hoch blade with very good success. I have also used a Lie-Nelsonscraper which is a beautifully made tool and a joy just to hold in oneshand. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Feb 2 21:36:04 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA21331 for; Sun, 2 Feb 1997 21:36:02 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA241 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: Lathe question This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------78A22C7B4339 Latheless: Here is the Sherline home page: http://www5.electriciti.com/sherline/ I use this lathe and like it. It is the best deal I could find. In myarea, there are not a lot of old machine shops to find a used piece ofequipment. There is a limitation with the small spindle diameter. Youcannot put a rod back in the lath after you mount a ferule or stripper.Some of the wood lathes that are fitted with a chuck have enoughclearance to avoid the limitation JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: I need a lathe to dress and mount ferrules, and to turn cork grips. I haveseen reference to Sherline lathes as a good alternative. If someone isfamiliar with these, could you recommend a model that is suitable, agoodsource (can you buy direct?), and any attachments/accessories I wouldneed thatwould be helpful. Latheless in D.C. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --------------78A22C7B4339 Content-Base: "http://www5.electriciti.com/sherline/" Sherline Products Home Page This site last updated or information added on1/27/97.Since December 18, 1995, this site has been visited by 64,885people. (1/26/97) The SHERLINE Products On-LineCatalogSHERLINE Miniature Machine ToolsSections...Welcome to the World of MiniatureMachiningAbout SHERLINE's Tools and Why They're Right forYouFrequently Asked Questions about SHERLINEtoolsSHERLINE Machinists Talk about usingtheir machines in hobbies and industryFeatures of SHERLINE LathesFeatures of SHERLINE Vertical MillingMachinesSetting Up and Using A SHERLINE Lathe orMill Table of ContentsSHERLINE Accessories (Description andcomplete instructions for each and every accessory we make. Lots of goodinformation!)SHERLINE Dealer ListingCNC Conversion Companies for SHERLINEToolsSHERLINE Tools and ChucksPrice ListSHERLINE Accessories Price ListSHERLINE Replacement Parts Price ListTips from SHERLINE Machinists give you waysto improve your machine or get a job done faster or easierSHERLINE's Miniature Machinist's Challenge CONTEST at the North American Model Engineering Society (N.A.M.E.S.)Show1996 Machinist's Challenge Winners withpictures of the winning entriesInternational Miniature Machinist'sAssociation needs your inputOther Resources and Hotlinks forMachinists Other SHERLINE Products... Full Size Machining Chucks and Accessories LOADMASTER Trailer Tongue Weight andSuspended Hydraulic Scales by SHERLINEFREE Trailer Loading and TowingGuideSHERLINE "Inspection Grade" Race CarAlignment SystemNEW! To learn more about aligningthe suspension of a race car, read Joe Martin's article prepared forVictory Lane magazine. It's called Straighten Up and Fly Right. We've also added asection on How to Make Your Own AlignmentBars.SHERLINE News, People and The Story of SHERLINE...Happenings, offers up-to-the-minute newsand product updates from SHERLINESHERLINE People, the faces and storiesbehind the voices on the phoneA History of SHERLINE Products, from itsbeginnings in Australia to today and beyond Check out SHERLINE's Special of theMonth!Offered only to those who see it on this Internet Site, a selected tool oraccessory is available at a substantial savings. Click on the underlinedheadline above to check out this month's special.New Sections:SHERLINE Replacement Parts Price ListNew Products: Mill Tooling Plate, P/N3560 saves your Mill Table and makes setups easier.Making Gravers is an article by worldreknowned watch and clock maker William R. Smith. It will accompany thenew T-Rest we are producing from his design. It will be available soon aspart number 2110.The article is available now if you would like to learnmore about turning metal with handheld tools. Welcome to theWorld of Miniature Machining!Hi, we're glad you stopped by to look at the SHERLINE catalog. This site hasbeen up and running since the end of 1995, and it has grown to the pointwhere it would take over 410 pages to print out everything we have madeavailable to you. Of course, not everything will be of interest to you rightnow, but remember that a lot of good information on miniature machiningis here should you even need to come back for it. and what they are used for. If you are new to machining, you may hearsome terms you are not familiar with. Don't let that worry you, as theinstructions that come with our tools are the most complete on themarket, and using the tools is fun and easy. Speaking of instructions, we have posted instruction sheets for every oneof our tools and accessories for your edification and enjoyment. It was atime consuming process, as it has taken us over 20 years to compile allthis information. It took a while to get them all reformatted for the web,but they're all available now. You get real, "how to" instructions on the useof tools and accesories that will be helpful for machinists using all kindsof equipment, not just SHERLINE. Click on the "SHERLINE Accessories"section above. Each of the underlined part names in that section is linkedto a set of illustrated instructions. By the way, for $10 you can order abinder containing most of the instructions that will be posted here if youdon't have a printer or want higher resolution on the line art. Call our tollfree number to order.We also provide links whenever possible to other sources of informationof interest to machinists. It is our goal to make SHERLINE's web site themost complete source of machining information avialable. Despite thesmall size of our tools, the information we have to offer usually appliesto machining practices regardless of size.We will not be answering E-mail or taking orders at this site, butencourage you to call our toll free number to order our free 36-page colorcatalog and price list or to order products you read about on this site.We'll be happy to answer any questions you may have about our products.Our office hours are M-F 8 AM to 4 PM (0800-1600) Pacific time. Thenumber is:1-800-541-0735 in theUSA.Outside the USA call: (619) 744-3674Our Fax is (619) 744- 1574Return to beginning of SHERLINE's home page. MACHINIST'S CHALLENGE CONTESTRESULTS!Scotty Hewett's Red Race Car Takes theWin at Wyandotte This little 5" long race car won the hearts and votes ofspectators at the N.A.M.E.S. show April 27th and 28th, 1996.ScottyHewitt built it from scratch using SHERLINE tools. (Body removed so youcan see frame and engine.)DATELINE: WYANDOTTE, MICHIGAN, April 29,1996 garnered the most votes in SHERLINE's Machinist's Challenge at the NorthAmerican Model Engineering Society (NAMES) Show. Scotty has been a racecar driver here and in Europe all his life, and he has only recently taken upminiature machining as a hobby. In that time, however, he has developed astyle of his own which appeals to spectators at the show. Since thespectators do the voting, he has aparantly found a winning combination. The past 2 years' winners have been versions of a 4-cylinder, oscillatingmarine engine. This year his 5" long tugboat with a sub-miniature steamengine took 3rd place, but his red, CO2-powered version of an old dirttrack car was popular in this suburb of Detroit. He designed and built the5" long car from the ground up, including not just the frame, engine anddrive system, but also the sculpted, red body and hand carved driver figurehunched over the wheel. (For those who saw it, the driver wasn't in placeat the show to better display the engine.) Second place, and by far the top choice of the expert machinists who casttheir votes, was a working version of a micro-lathe crosslide with cuttingtool turret by Wilhelm Huxhold of Ontario, Canada. The quality of finishand level of detail were beyond amazing! Pictures of some of the otherentries will be scattered throughout this site, including a shot of the toptwo finishers which will appear right here as soon as the film isdeveloped and scanned.These projects are the best illustration we can offer of the kind of thingswhich can be built on precision miniature machine tools like thosemanufactured by SHERLINE. In fact, though not a requirement of thecontest, Scotty's entries are all built using SHERLINE tools. Check the "N.A.M.E.S. CONTEST" page in this site to see howyou can enter and win a part of the cash purse in next year's contest.Sooner or later, ONE of you can surely break Scotty's streak ofwins!Return to beginning of SHERLINE's home page. Copyright 1996, Sherline Products Inc. All rights reserved.No part of this web site, including the text, photos or illustrations, maybe reproduced or transmitted in any other form or by any means(electronic, photocopying, recording or otherwise) for commercial usewithout the prior written permission of Sherline Products Inc. --------------78A22C7B4339-- from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Mon Feb 3 00:08:03 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA29517 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 00:08:00 -0600 Mon, 3 Feb 1997 14:07:57 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lathe question I use this lathe and like it. It is the best deal I could find. In myarea, there are not a lot of old machine shops to find a used piece ofequipment. There is a limitation with the small spindle diameter. Youcannot put a rod back in the lath after you mount a ferule or stripper.Some of the wood lathes that are fitted with a chuck have enoughclearance to avoid the limitation You can remove the tailstock to gain extra length, then work on the lefthand side of the headstock. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Feb 3 09:07:36 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA04690 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:07:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Transport II Bill Fink seez... Your concern about your first Epoxy rod is "deja-vue" all over again....Now I'm a bit worried about Titebond II splices for nodeless, but afterthe first year all is well. How else do we progress? Just curious Bill...after you glue up your splices and plane, doyou use Titebond to glue up the splines? Seems like if it wouldwork for the splices, it should work for the splines. Anyone else out there using Titebond for rod gluing? Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from whensel@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 3 09:40:53 1997 ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 07:40:49 -0800 Subject: Kicked out of cycberspace but still planing To All,I bought a pop camper and maxed out my last credit card. I have decided to sell off most of my things bigscreen, sterio, and lots of ham equipment in order to lessen the credit card debt.I have one rod glued up and will have another glued up by this WEDnesday. So for anyone who is interested I am very much into the rod building. Joe from Rocky Mountain has been a gret assest in helping me along this path and I personal thank him.If there are no more postings from me then you know my servers said good by to me and I did not have time to sell off my things. So be it I will miss you all but if anyone wants to communicate with me below is my address.Oh yes Mr. Cattanack you will recieve money for the oven by the 15th of this month. My address is : Bill Hensel4701 So Delaware St.Englewood, Colorado 80110 Tel 1-303-783-3957 Good bye to all if worst comes to worst. I want to tell all beginners to continue their building and if I can I will show up to Graylock in June. See You All Later either on the streams or in the next life, Bill from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Mon Feb 3 09:41:57 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA07515 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:41:55 -0600 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Wood Forms I'm in the middle of building a set of wooden planing forms per BruceConner's instructions. So far, so good. If anything, I've learned howto turn a good edge on a scraper. I'm at the point where I'm about to make the tapered groove in the forms.Bruce's write-up talks in terms of the width at each station but the depthgauge measures the depth. There is a factor of .866 between the widthandthe depth. It says "each station is .005 inches wider than the last one."Should this be taken literally, or is the intent that the depth reading ateachstation be .005 wider than the reading at the last station? Incidentally, for the benefit of any new kids who will be building thewooden forms, my total cash outlay was $62. This included all rawmaterialsand a few tools which I didn't have. I had to substitute a shoulder boltwhich had a 5/16-18 threaded section in place of the 1/4-20 called out inthe instructions. I got the shoulder bolts from ENCO (after a 3-weekwait). Thanks in advance for the help and thanks especially to Bruce Conner forthe excellent instructions. Bob MatarazzoMelville, NY from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 3 09:47:52 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA07696 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:47:51 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id JAA18756 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 09:47:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question I have a Carba-tec mini lathe. it's integrally powered and has a 1/2thru headstock. Works great for all rodmaking applications except metalwork. has a three jaw chuck etc. around $220 at woodcraft. Jerry from dmichels@usitc.gov Mon Feb 3 10:23:47 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10300 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 10:23:44 -0600 Subject: unsubscribe from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Feb 3 13:53:49 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29269 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 13:53:43 -0600 with BSMTP id 6069; Mon, 03 Feb 97 14:52:36 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 3184; Mon, 3 Feb 199714:52:36 -0500Subject: plotting tapers Are you folks plotting tapers by paper and pencilor are you using pc software? And whichever, whenplotting are you using raw diminsions or transformingthe data in some way? Just wondering as I've beenfooling around with tapers on Harvard Graphics. Bob from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Feb 3 15:00:08 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA03415 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 15:00:06 -0600 Subject: Re: plotting tapers Bob, Looks like there is still some of us the plot the tapers. Graduated to usinga spreadsheet within excel to do the graphing. Works just fine. Use bothrawflat to flat dimension and difference betwix the dimension/5" of rodtravel.Need further, send me personal email. Regards, Don At 14:49 03/02/97 EST, you wrote:Are you folks plotting tapers by paper and pencilor are you using pc software? And whichever, whenplotting are you using raw diminsions or transformingthe data in some way? Just wondering as I've beenfooling around with tapers on Harvard Graphics. Bob from cbogart@ibm.net Mon Feb 3 17:56:48 1997 ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 17:56:35 -0600 ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 18:58:06 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Rod Transport II Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Mike Try Bill Dinasoar epoxy AKA Shell Epon. It is closeto it as you could ask for. Long working time, no heat cure,binding cord easily removed from blank - takes low heatto straighten. Now all you need is lazy man planing system. Chris from rcurry@jlc.net Mon Feb 3 19:58:13 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA23155 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 19:58:06 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA13577 for Subject: Another pearl of wisdom found to be clam spit Did you ever listen to fisher folk years ago, when all rods hadferrules, describe their rods as 17/11 or 15/9, i.e., by the sizes ofthe ferrules? It really was quite popular, as a matter of fact, Ibelieve I have a cane rod makers catalogue somewhere that uses suchdescriptions. We really seemed to believe that it meant something, it seems to makesense, doesn't it? (Of course, many books suggested purchasing fly linesbased upon the physical weight of the finished rod. We know what that'sworth.) Anyway, I was stripping a new (1910ish) rod the other day and decided tocompare the ferrule sizes with beefier blanks. The new rod is a "ladies"wet fly, 8'6", 3/2, Calcutta cane, with a 4 inch cork grip (bizarre!).Nice rod, but very delicate, I assumed it would break the mold and nothave a 6-7 difference between ferrules. Wrong! It was a 16/10. I hauledout another 8'6", 3/2, 6wt., and it was also a 16/10. There is nosimilarity between the two rods, RodA has 1/2 the "wood" of RodB. This is, of course, no earthshaking revelation, but it exploded yetanother of my old myths. Now just don't anyone out there impugn thecharacter of Mr. Clinton, or I'll have nothing left. Best regards,Reed from rgriff@tcac.com Mon Feb 3 20:41:50 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA24960 for ;Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:41:49 - 0600 odin.tcac.com (8.7.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id UAA45580 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:45:22 -0600 Subject: Re: Titebond II Bill Fink seez... Your concern about your first Epoxy rod is "deja-vue" all over again....Now I'm a bit worried about Titebond II splices for nodeless, but afterthe first year all is well. How else do we progress? Just curious Bill...after you glue up your splices and plane, doyou use Titebond to glue up the splines? Seems like if it wouldwork for the splices, it should work for the splines. Anyone else out there using Titebond for rod gluing? Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Darryl Hayashida was using Titebond II, but I haven't seen a post from himin quite some time.Ron Griffithaka Wind knot"Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art." Charles McCabe from rklmeb@tiac.net Mon Feb 3 20:55:28 1997 ; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 20:55:27 -0600 maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id VAA20750 for zork.tiac.net (8.8.2/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id VAA11682 for Subject: Unsubscribe please take me off the list for now. Thanks.Richard K. Lodge from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Mon Feb 3 21:14:32 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA26439 for; Mon, 3 Feb 1997 21:14:29 -0600 Tue, 4 Feb 1997 11:14:25 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Rod Transport II That's a good question, but I've found that alaphatic glues have a quick "grip" time which is fine for scarfs, but tricky when you need a bit of time like when the splines are bound, but need straightening. Tony Bill Fink seez... Your concern about your first Epoxy rod is "deja-vue" all over again....Now I'm a bit worried about Titebond II splices for nodeless, but afterthe first year all is well. How else do we progress? Just curious Bill...after you glue up your splices and plane, doyou use Titebond to glue up the splines? Seems like if it wouldwork for the splices, it should work for the splines. Anyone else out there using Titebond for rod gluing? Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Tue Feb 4 05:17:18 1997 FAA27437 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 05:17:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question At 09:48 AM 2/3/97 -0600, you wrote:I have a Carba-tec mini lathe. it's integrally powered and has a 1/2thru headstock. Works great for all rodmaking applications except metalwork. has a three jaw chuck etc. around $220 at woodcraft. Jerry To anyone Interested in Lathes.The one advertised in The Planing Form and sold by J.C. Bogeman is anexcellent investment. Does everything the rodmaking could want at a goodprice, under $300. It comes ready to go and sets up in about 10 minutesoutof the box, Ron Barch from wliebbra@plessey.co.za Tue Feb 4 05:46:02 1997 +0200 smap (V3.1) 4 Feb 97 13:47:27 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Organization: PLESSEY TELLUMAT Subject: Ferrules Priority: normal Can anybody out there help me with an alternative (cheaper) to Nickel Silver Ferrules. The exchange rate is killing me and I can't afford using that expensive hardware whilst still learning to build rods "worthy" of NS ferrules.Any suggestions or suppliers will be appretiated. Werner. from FFer4trout@aol.com Tue Feb 4 07:43:53 1997 ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 07:43:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrules In a message dated 97-02-04 06:48:59 EST, you write: Subj: FerrulesDate: 97-02-04 06:48:59 ESTFrom: wliebbra@plessey.co.za (Werner Leibbrandt)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Can anybody out there help me with an alternative (cheaper) to Nickel Silver Ferrules. The exchange rate is killing me and I can't afford using that expensive hardware whilst still learning to build rods "worthy" of NS ferrules.Any suggestions or suppliers will be appretiated. Werner. Werner, There's Ni-plated brass ferrules on the market - cost about $1.50 - $2.50(USA). They can be ordered from Angler's Workshop, Jann's Netcraft, DaleClemems Company or other rod supply companies. Don B. PS - Great catalogs too: Angler's Workshop - (I can't find the addess my catolog is missing thebackcover) web site: http://www.anglersworkshop.com(360) 225- 9445FAX 225-8641or (800) 278-1069 (USA only FAX) Jann's NetcraftP.O. Box 89Maumee, OH 43537 USA(419) 868-8288FAX 868-8338(800) -netcraft (USA only) Clemens444 Schantz RoadAllentown, PA 18104 USA(610) 395-5119FAX 398-2580 from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Tue Feb 4 09:06:46 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08553 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:06:45 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Transport II Chris sayeth... Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Try Bill Dinasoar epoxy AKA Shell Epon. It is closeto it as you could ask for. Long working time, no heat cure,binding cord easily removed from blank - takes low heatto straighten. Sounds like my kinda stuff...Thanks! Now all you need is lazy man planing system. Hmmmm...how about: "Hey Chris, how about planing up my next rod for me!!!? " Oh well, it was worth a try... Mike - LazyBones - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 4 09:12:02 1997 ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:12:00 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Gary,Your .013-.014-.015 sounds interesting-I've found that a reverseparabolagives me a very slow rod unless the slope is so steep that the rod weightissomewhat prohibitive. I've been eyeballing my graphs and haven't checkedtosee what .001/5" they are. I'll get back to you on that. I'm in the middle ofmy second nodeless 7 1/2' for a 5 with a swelled butt (straight linetaper).Keep those blades sharp,Hank. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Feb 4 09:32:30 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA11474 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 09:32:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Lathe question Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Ok here is a question. If someone was to look into purchasing a lathe for purposes of rod building, what should I be looking for?Jon from rfairfie@cisco.com Tue Feb 4 10:40:51 1997 IAA24173 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 08:40:44 - 0800 Subject: Re: Ferrules Werner, there are plated brass ferrules available from some of the supplymailorder houses. One that I use is Janns-Netcraft. Their address is Jann's-Netcraftp.o.box 89Maumee, Ohio 43537 The ferrules run about $2.00 a pop. Good luck,Roger from santiago@ricochet.net Tue Feb 4 12:20:49 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA25653 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 12:20:39 -0600 Organization: Home Subject: cane for sale... if you are interested in purchasing cane at a very reasonable price, especially if you are a beginner, please contact Andy. the cane is 12' sticks in bundles of 20. andyr@bamboohw.comor206.223.0658 pst from jfoster@gte.net Tue Feb 4 13:06:05 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28733 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:06:03 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id NAA08126 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 13:06:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Dry Fly Taper Where are you Bob Nunley and where is your homepage? Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Tue Feb 4 16:21:33 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA12718 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:21:32 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id QAA27295 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:21:26 -0600 Subject: [Fwd: Mail for LITTLBIT from SNEAL at RALVM8] (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.AutoCF) via SMTP id QAA25512; Tue, 4 Feb1997 16:00:36 -0600 V2R3)with BSMTP id 1684; Tue, 04 Feb 97 17:01:02 EST Subject: Mail for LITTLBIT from SNEAL at RALVM8 *** Resending note of 02/04/97 15:50Message from:Nasser C. MomtaheniConsulting IT ArchitectAIX Consulting & Services(ISSC)Subject: Mail for LITTLBIT from SNEAL at RALVM8*===== from =====> 542-5445 -OR- (972)280-5445 >>> DO NOT REPLY TO THIS NOTE from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 4 16:47:18 1997 QAA14222 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:47:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Another pearl of wisdom found to be clam spit Reed,Mr. who?Hank. :-) from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Feb 4 16:53:24 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA14540 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 16:53:23 -0600 Subject: A question about Tapers III Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Just wanted to know exactly what a nodeless rod is? I am a bit ignorant because the book I ordered by Wayne has taken two weeks longer to get here than normal. Jon from cbogart@ibm.net Tue Feb 4 17:45:25 1997 ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 17:45:23 -0600 SAA09803 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:47:30 -0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Rod Transport II MikeWe could work on a beer for blanks deal - of courseyou may not like the blank after I had the beer. On Mon, 3 Feb 97 19:45:05 CST, Michael Biondo wrote: Chris sayeth... Mike - in search of the perfect LazyMan's glue - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Try Bill Dinasoar epoxy AKA Shell Epon. It is closeto it as you could ask for. Long working time, no heat cure,binding cord easily removed from blank - takes low heatto straighten. Sounds like my kinda stuff...Thanks! Now all you need is lazy man planing system. Hmmmm...how about: "Hey Chris, how about planing up my next rod for me!!!? " Oh well, it was worth a try... Mike - LazyBones - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Chris from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Feb 4 18:20:19 1997 SAA19414 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:20:17 -0600 TAA02349 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 19:20:10 - Subject: Glues Hi Mike,You ask about nodeless glue. I use Titebond II for the nodeless splicesbecause it is waterproof tested and is SOOOO convenient right out of thesqueeze bottle. Epoxies or other formulated adhesives would makenodelessreally less practical because you need to make so many splices. But for mysplines I use my dinosaur epoxy which I know and love for over thirtyyears.I have one year of success with this combo. Chris Bogart has two or moreyears. Stay tuned. Where's your spirit of adventure? Bill from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Feb 4 18:21:28 1997 SAA19485 for ; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:21:27 -0600 Subject: Re: Old rod Greetings, Abercrombie and Fitch is (was?) a high end fishing and hunting departmentstore that was in New York and other large cities. They did not make rodsthemselves, rather they had existing makers produce a private label rodforthem. I think that many different people produced rods for them and youshould be able to match your rod against makers of the day. Good Luck JB At 22:58 31/01/97 -0500, you wrote:To all,I've been asked to refinish a 3 pc. 8' Abercrombie &Fitch YellowstoneSpecial.Does anyone know the maker? The rod has a metal cap and ring (allmetal),intermediate wraps, a 5" cork cigar. The model name and seller areengravedin the metal slide of the reelseat. The writing above the cork is gone.Thereis a swell an inch above the cork and the wraps appear to be rose-what'sleftof 'em.Any help will be appreciated.Thanks ,Hank Woolman. James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from rcurry@jlc.net Tue Feb 4 18:52:43 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA21406 for; Tue, 4 Feb 1997 18:52:39 -0600 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA04546 for Subject: Re: Old rod Hank,Just glancing through one book of catalogues, I see that prior to1920,A&F (Apoplexy and Fits) sold Divine rods (probably others, too), whereasin a later catalogue they were marketing Hawes, Hardy, and Cross. Andstill later, they were flogging Paynes.Go figure.Best regards,Reed James Bond wrote: Greetings, Abercrombie and Fitch is (was?) a high end fishing and huntingdepartmentstore that was in New York and other large cities. They did not make rodsthemselves, rather they had existing makers produce a private label rodforthem. I think that many different people produced rods for them and youshould be able to match your rod against makers of the day. Good Luck JB At 22:58 31/01/97 -0500, you wrote:To all,I've been asked to refinish a 3 pc. 8' Abercrombie &FitchYellowstoneSpecial.Does anyone know the maker? The rod has a metal cap and ring (allmetal),intermediate wraps, a 5" cork cigar. The model name and seller areengravedin the metal slide of the reelseat. The writing above the cork is gone.Thereis a swell an inch above the cork and the wraps appear to be rose-what's leftof 'em.Any help will be appreciated.Thanks ,Hank Woolman. James Bond, Toronto, CanadaFax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Wed Feb 5 03:27:28 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id DAA23911 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 03:27:25 -0600 10:27:23 +0100 (MET) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) KAA11219; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 10:27:22 +0100 10:27:21 +0100 Subject: I'm new in the list Hello I'm new in this email list and beginner in building fly fishing rods. Let me introduce my self. My name is Angel Contreras and I'm living inNeuchatel (Switzerland). I'm fishing all the rivers here around inSwitzerlandand in France near the border. I'm building a new rod from a G. Loomis7' #4 IMX blank but I definitely want to build bamboo rods. As a beginner I have some questions: - There is any body in Switzerland or France having experience in buildingbamboo rods?- There is any way to find Tonkin bamboo cane (or another good one) inSwitzerland, France or any other close European country?- Can you recommand a good book to me. Thanks for you help and any other information that will help me increatingflyfishing rods. Angel Contreras -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 5 08:04:36 1997 ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 08:04:34 -0600 Subject: Re: I'm new in the list from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Wed Feb 5 09:40:01 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA08709 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 09:39:40 -0600 16:39:35 +0100 (MET) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) QAA02098; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 16:39:35 +0100 16:39:34 +0100 "Re: I'm new in the list" (Feb 5, 9:04am) Subject: Re: I'm new in the list On Feb 5, 9:04am, TSmithwick@aol.com wrote:Subject: Re: I'm new in the list Angel - If you read French,I would suggest you find a copy of "La Canne aMouche" by J. de Lespinay, Published by Edtions la Simarre in 1991. Itshouldhelp with European sources as well as building instructions.You should also subscribe to "The Planing Form", and get as many backissuesas you can.-----Tom Smithwick-- End of excerpt from TSmithwick@aol.com It seems that this publisher is difficult to find. Do you have any otherinformation that will help me to find this book (Address, phone, ....) Thanks for your help -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 5 11:06:37 1997 ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:06:35 -0600 Subject: Re: I'm new in the list Angel -- The only address listed is Joue-Les- Tours (France)You can also write to the author at:11 rue Parmentier,3700 Tours, France -- Good Luck from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Wed Feb 5 12:30:31 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA21151 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 12:30:28 -0600 LAA25788 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 11:30:02 -0700 Comments: Authenticated sender is Organization: Flathead Valley Community College Subject: Sharpening NotesPriority: normal To all: I found a nice FAC on blade sharpening. I am new to building cane rods, but thought that others might find the info useful. http://www.mcn.org/a/rhock/sharpen.htm -Paul (Kalispell, MT) from santiago@ricochet.net Wed Feb 5 14:14:10 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA28099 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 14:13:56 -0600 Organization: Home Subject: more on the cane for sale February 5, 1997 This is a form letter to all of you who wrote emails to me inquiringabout=myinventory of 12=B9 x 2=B2 tonkin cane. First, tonkin is a bit of a generic name. Several species originating from= Southeastern China are called tonkin. The species I have in stock isArundinaria amabilis, which is regarded by most as the premiere speciesfor= bamboo fly-rods. It is grown northwest of Canton in a twenty-five squarem=ileoval overlapping the provinces of Kwantung and Kwangsi. The poles (or cane, or sticks, to some) are all 12 feet in length. Thediameter at the base ranges from 1 1/2=B2 to 2 1/4=B2. I do not knowexact=ly howthis material compares with cane from other companies. from what Ihear, t=hesepoles have more slash marks, more burn marks, similar percentage ofgreen c=olorand less cracks or splits per pole than other distributors of this material==2E The slash marks are man made. There are a dozen theories as to why theyar=epresent. On the poles I have in stock, the slashes are usually on the bott=omthird of the pole. I have over 3000 poles in stock, I have inspected over =100poles and have found slash marks on almost every pole. I will attempt tore-inspect the poles on Thursday the 6th. These marks are obviouslylimiti=ngfactors for rod builders. A wide, deep mark eliminates a builders chancea=tbuilding a rod from that piece of cane. The burn marks are present on about 25% of the poles I have inspected. Ab=urnmark is made when the pole is straightened over a fire. As I understand,a= light burn mark is not so significant, a medium to dark mark will render aportion of a pole useless. About 20% of the poles I have inspected haveme=diumto dark burn marks. The green colour is present in about 30% of the poles I have seen. Persona=lly,I do not feel that this is such a problem because if you store these poles,=thegreen will slowly be replaced by the yellow/straw colour which is moredesirable. If you have a chance to place a green pole in the sun, it willyellow much more quickly (remember, the poles will probably split whiledry=ingin our dry climate, you may want to pre-split them manually). from what I viewed, cracked or split cane is not a problem in thesepoles,=theall seemed in excellent shape structurally. So, how many pieces are usable from a bundle of 20 poles? Variancesexistbecause of the natural diversity in bamboo and because different buildersh=avedifferent needs. One of the two buyers I have been working with is DaryllWhitehead. The poles I imported (again, from what we have seen, which isl=essthan 5%) are not sufficient for Daryll=B9s needs. An importantdistinction=is tobe made here. Daryll is a professional rod builder, he needs a perfect pol=e.These poles are perfect for people who do not sell their rods for severalhundred dollars. According to Daryll, the imperfections can be cutaround,=thepoles can be manipulated to result in a fine rod, especially for a beginnin=gbuilder. How many poles out of twenty are usable? Probably between 4-12 i=s myguess. I think it would be prudent for people who buy a bundle to post the=irpersonal findings on the rod builders list server. As I understand, these poles offer a better opportunity for beginningbuild=ersbecause the cost is not so high. I hear that the quality of poles coming f=romother suppliers is not high, probably not better than the poles I have. The prices are (20 poles per bundle):$5.00/pole 1-4 bundles (I cannot sell less than a bundle per =order)$4.75/pole 5-15 bundles$4.50/pole 16- 50 bundles$4.25/pole 51-100 bundles I do not know the cost of shipping to the various areas around thecountry.= Call your local trucking company for a rate quote. This originating zip co=deis 98032 (Kent, WA) the weight per bundle is about 100 lbs and the classis=70.If you are west of the Mississippi, Action Express is the cheapestshipper=Ihave found, their number is 800-456-3661, tell them you are billing theshipment to Bamboo Hardwoods and the discount is 40%. If you are able tog=ivethem a business address as the delivery address, you should be able tosave=afew bucks. Look in your Yellow Pages (Yellow Freight is usuallyexpensive)==2E I think that=B9s it. Contact me if you need more information. Thank you, Andy RoyerBamboo Hardwoodsandyr@bamboohw.com from Mikael.Marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.SE Wed Feb 5 15:45:53 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA04185 for; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 15:45:29 -0600 skeria.skelleftea.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) 1.21);5 Feb 97 22:07:01 MET DST 22:06:52 MET DST 5 Feb 97 22:06:45 MET DSTComments: Authenticated sender is Subject: Re: I'm new in the listPriority: normal Hello Angel!No problem finding bamboo here in Sweden. If you can=B4t find anything closer I can give you some adresses. Have a look at my homepage - shows how to build a rod - good for beginners I think.------------------------------ ----------------------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Feb 5 18:12:32 1997 SAA13688 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:12:29 -0600 TAA01410 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:12:20 - Subject: Tapers III Hi Gary,As I mentioned to Hank, there is software out there that allows you toinput taper dimensions and outputs the stress curve. Computers handlecuberoots pretty well. Should be easy to do for known Dickerson tapers. Maybesomeone already has.You ask about straight tapers. No experience here but some of Garrison'sare pretty straight.Maybe we should change the subject from Tapers III to BS ad infinitum.Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Feb 5 18:12:51 1997 SAA13693 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 18:12:42 -0600 TAA01436 for ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:12:23 - Subject: Graphs Hi Robert, Don and any other graphites,Here's an idea, very old but still may have value: plot your graphsmanually on translucent paper, all with same ordinate and abscissa scalesand then view them via a light table for precision comparisons.And then look at stress curves.This BS will probably end when spring comes. Bill from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 5 19:54:30 1997 ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 19:54:28 -0600 Subject: Re: Old rod Reed,Thanks for your help. I guess I'll go figure.Take care,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 5 20:04:15 1997 ; Wed, 5 Feb 1997 20:04:14 -0600 Subject: Re: A question about Tapers III Jon,Nodeless means the nodes(where each year's new growth started) are cutoutof the culm ( I cut them out after I split out the strips I'm going touse- others cut the whole culm and then split). The pieces are then joinedwith a scarf joint-I use Elmer's professional carpenters wood glue-onlyforthe scarf joint.Hope this helps,Hank from wliebbra@plessey.co.za Thu Feb 6 07:53:59 1997 +0200 smap (V3.1) 6 Feb 97 15:55:35 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Organization: PLESSEY TELLUMAT Subject: Video Priority: normal Hi Wayne,Sorry I don't have your personal e-mail so will have to do through the mailing list. Will you please send me price for your Rodbuilding video incl shipping to Cape Town South-Africa. Thank youWerner Leibbrandtwliebbra@plessey.co.za from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu Feb 6 09:22:17 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA28782 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 09:22:15 -0600 Subject: Re: A question about Tapers III Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Thanks Hank,I just got Wayne's book today and was reading in statistics. Hehehe. I understand what you are talking about. I don't exactly know what a scarf joint is, but I will tray and ask around. Jon On 5 Feb 97 at 21:04, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Jon,Nodeless means the nodes(where each year's new growth started) arecut outof the culm ( I cut them out after I split out the strips I'm going touse-others cut the whole culm and then split). The pieces are then joinedwith a scarf joint-I use Elmer's professional carpenters wood glue- onlyforthe scarf joint.Hope this helps,Hank from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Thu Feb 6 15:20:19 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA24195 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 15:20:14 -0600 Subject: Re: depth gauge My tool supplier sold me an inexpensive depth guage made inChina for which he guaranteed the accuracy. He then sold me a 45 degreepoint and sent me off to a toolmaker who ground it to 60 degrees fornothing. Works just fine. good luck, Jim. from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Thu Feb 6 17:55:15 1997 RAA04819 for ; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 17:55:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III At 07:12 PM 2/5/97 -0500, you wrote:Hi Gary,As I mentioned to Hank, there is software out there that allows you toinput taper dimensions and outputs the stress curve. Computers handlecuberoots pretty well. Should be easy to do for known Dickerson tapers. Maybesomeone already has.You ask about straight tapers. No experience here but some of Garrison'sare pretty straight.Maybe we should change the subject from Tapers III to BS ad infinitum.Bill Hi Bill,One time I asked John Bokstrom what the first tool a guy needed tostartcane rodmaking......His reply was"a shovel for all the manure"Ron B.> from plipton@sunvalley.net Thu Feb 6 18:17:14 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA05835 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 18:17:11 -0600 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with SMTP id AAA402 Organization: Sun Valley Rods Subject: Re: depth gauge Jim: With no disrespect to your friendly machinist, check the 60 degreepoint. The made in China points I bought were more like 58 degreepoints. It makes a difference setting the form. Did you also get areference block to set your gage? Phil Jim Boone wrote: My tool supplier sold me an inexpensive depth gauge made inChina for which he guaranteed the accuracy. He then sold me a 45 degreepoint and sent me off to a toolmaker who ground it to 60 degrees fornothing. Works just fine. good luck, Jim. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip Lipton PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from rklmeb@tiac.net Thu Feb 6 19:23:55 1997 ; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 19:23:54 -0600 maildeliver0.tiac.net (8.8.0/8.8) with ESMTP id UAA31438 for zork.tiac.net (8.8.2/8.6.6.Beta9) with SMTP id UAA12667 for Subject: Re: Tapers III Ron,Can you help me get my name taken off the list for the time being? Myemailis getting pretty jammed. Thanks for your help.Richard K. Lodge from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Thu Feb 6 20:54:29 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA13147 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 20:54:16 -0600 Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:53:59 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: A question about Tapers III Imagine two pieces of wood 24" long and 1" thich (width dosn't matter)and you wanted to join them.If you measure 12" along the top of one piece and make mark and draw a diagonal line from the bottom of the very end of the piece of wood to this mark, you'll wind up with a 1:12 scarf which is prob the minimum ratio to work with. Do this on the other piece and glue the two together. If done correctly the joint is about as strong as a non scarfed section and is hard to detect.Wayne's book has a drawing of a scarfing jig in the rod repair section.When you use a jig, make sure all the strips are of even dimension, otherwise you'll get badly formed scarfs as the angle of attact while planing will differ between each strip.Simple. Tony Thanks Hank,I just got Wayne's book today and was reading in statistics. Hehehe. I understand what you are talking about. I don't exactly know what a scarf joint is, but I will tray and ask around. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Thu Feb 6 22:45:27 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA17595 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:45:26 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id WAA23170 for; Thu, 6 Feb 1997 22:45:24 -0600 Subject: Web Page Allright gang The page update is complete.. well mostly The Taper archive has stress ( graphs ) curves with all the dimensions..if you see any errors let me know.any additions..anything needs to be added? deleted? jerry from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Feb 7 04:39:04 1997 ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 04:39:03 -0600 Subject: The Bamboo Thing Over the past couple of days I have recieved a few direct e-mails askingwhatI think of the earlier posts concerning the offer of bamboo for sale byAndyRoyer of Bamboo Hardwoods. So I thought that I would respond to the list.The question that the others asked - is this a good deal - This is oneofthose questionsthat only time will tell. But in my mind Daryll Whitehead has alreadyanswered it for me(US) . Because of the distance I have only talked toDaryllonce or twice but as with so many others - his reputation precedes him.Andwhen I read that the offered culm are not sufficient for Daryll's needs Idon't need to hear anything further.To be fair to Mr Royer - in what I've read he appears to be trying todescribe his product in a straight forward manner. And yes you can saythat Imay be prejusticed towards Harold and Eileen Demarest - I have knownthem foryears and our families are close.So any answer I give must look at the facts and not emotion.1) there is no mention of the depth of usable power fibers which isperhapsone of Daryll's objections.2) doing the mathematics of what according to Mr. Royer is usable - theTRUEcost per culm could be as high as $25/each.Perhaps what I would see as somewhat of an insult is the statementthatthe product IS good enough for the non professional user. Because Iconsiderbamboo rod making a hobby (That's why I'm left out of the lists at the endofthose articles) I would be in this group as well. Personally I am notwilling to potentially jeopardize the out come of the many hours of effortthat it takes to make a bamboo fly rod for what may or may not be ameagersavings. from the talks that I've heard Harold give about the sorting involvedto getthe quality that he requests and the amounts of rejects I would suspectthatthat is what Mr Royer has gotten. I'm told that the Chinese can be verykeenin business and perhaps he has fallen victim. Just A Word Of Caution Wayne PS - as always I hope that agree or disagree comments please from santiago@ricochet.net Fri Feb 7 10:28:30 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23843 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:28:29 -0600 IAA12145 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:26:26 - Organization: Home Subject: Re: Web Page Jerry Foster wrote: Allright gang The page update is complete.. well mostly The Taper archive has stress ( graphs ) curves with all the dimensions..if you see any errors let me know.any additions..anything needs to be added? deleted? jerryhis is a beautiful page! from santiago@ricochet.net Fri Feb 7 10:28:51 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA23865 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 10:28:48 -0600 IAA12195 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 08:26:47 - Organization: Home Subject: Re: Web Page Jerry Foster wrote: Allright gang The page update is complete.. well mostly The Taper archive has stress ( graphs ) curves with all the dimensions..if you see any errors let me know.any additions..anything needs to be added? deleted? jerrythis is a beautiful page! leo from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Feb 7 12:58:13 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA05119 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:58:11 -0600 Subject: Stress Curves. Priority: normal Comments: Authenticated sender is Could someone please explain the concept of a stress curve. I am curious, and do not know what i am looking at when I see one. Jon from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Feb 7 12:58:17 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA05127 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 12:58:15 -0600 Subject: Re: Web Page Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is What's the address? Allright gang The page update is complete.. well mostly The Taper archive has stress ( graphs ) curves with all the dimensions..if you see any errors let me know.any additions..anything needs to be added? deleted? jerry from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Fri Feb 7 13:37:12 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA07743 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 13:37:08 -0600 (WST) Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:22:12 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: The Bamboo Thing I'd like to comment further on the point Wayne has made.Wayne says it's a hoby to be enjoyed and the cost of each culm is as high as $25. Even if it's less, what are you saving?I used to be a wooden dingy builder, I still build the occasional one and it's always the case that the cost of the hull is only about 25% or less than the overall cost but accounts for almost 100% of the integrity of the boat itself. As far as I can see, cane rods are the same. It takes a lot of effort to make a decent rod and saving a few bucks at the wrong end of the equasion dosn't make sence.As a final comment, I've been offered various cane to try, and who knows, I may even come across something that works but I'm paying a *lot* more than $25 per culm over here and considering the effort involved, so what, I enjoy what I'm doing and like what I'm making. Tony Over the past couple of days I have recieved a few direct e-mailsasking whatI think of the earlier posts concerning the offer of bamboo for sale byAndyRoyer of Bamboo Hardwoods. So I thought that I would respond to thelist.The question that the others asked - is this a good deal - This is oneofthose questionsthat only time will tell. But in my mind Daryll Whitehead has alreadyanswered it for me(US) . Because of the distance I have only talked toDaryllonce or twice but as with so many others - his reputation precedeshim. Andwhen I read that the offered culm are not sufficient for Daryll's needs Idon't need to hear anything further.To be fair to Mr Royer - in what I've read he appears to be trying todescribe his product in a straight forward manner. And yes you can saythat Imay be prejusticed towards Harold and Eileen Demarest - I have knownthem foryears and our families are close. /**** Lots sniped out *****/So any answer I give must look at the facts and not emotion.1) there is no mention of the depth of usable power fibers which isperhapsone of Daryll's objections.2) doing the mathematics of what according to Mr. Royer is usable - theTRUEcost per culm could be as high as $25/each.Perhaps what I would see as somewhat of an insult is the statementthatthe product IS good enough for the non professional user. Because Iconsiderbamboo rod making a hobby (That's why I'm left out of the lists at theend ofthose articles) I would be in this group as well. Personally I am notwilling to potentially jeopardize the out come of the many hours ofeffortthat it takes to make a bamboo fly rod for what may or may not be ameagersavings. from the talks that I've heard Harold give about the sorting involvedto getthe quality that he requests and the amounts of rejects I would suspectthatthat is what Mr Royer has gotten. I'm told that the Chinese can be verykeenin business and perhaps he has fallen victim. Just A Word Of Caution Wayne PS - as always I hope that agree or disagree comments please /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from davida@grove.ufl.EDU Fri Feb 7 14:04:30 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id OAA09457 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:04:23 -0600 mail1.grove.ufl.EDU (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA17993 for (8.8.5/8.7.3/3) with SMTP id PAA14056 for Subject: finishes? Trying to find out the advantages of spar varnish over tung oil or viceversa? What is the best finish for bamboo rods? Please explain the prosand cons. Thanks, DADavid Allertondavida@grove.ufl.edu from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Fri Feb 7 15:40:04 1997 PAA14758 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:40:02 -0600 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Thing At 05:38 AM 2/7/97 -0500, you wrote:Over the past couple of days I have recieved a few direct e-mails askingwhatI think of the earlier posts concerning the offer of bamboo for sale byAndyRoyer of Bamboo Hardwoods. So I thought that I would respond to the list.The question that the others asked - is this a good deal - This is oneofthose questionsthat only time will tell. But in my mind Daryll Whitehead has alreadyanswered it for me(US) . Because of the distance I have only talked toDaryllonce or twice but as with so many others - his reputation precedes him.Andwhen I read that the offered culm are not sufficient for Daryll's needs Idon't need to hear anything further.To be fair to Mr Royer - in what I've read he appears to be trying todescribe his product in a straight forward manner. And yes you can saythat Imay be prejusticed towards Harold and Eileen Demarest - I have knownthem foryears and our families are close.So any answer I give must look at the facts and not emotion.1) there is no mention of the depth of usable power fibers which isperhapsone of Daryll's objections.2) doing the mathematics of what according to Mr. Royer is usable - theTRUEcost per culm could be as high as $25/each.Perhaps what I would see as somewhat of an insult is the statementthatthe product IS good enough for the non professional user. Because Iconsiderbamboo rod making a hobby (That's why I'm left out of the lists at the endofthose articles) I would be in this group as well. Personally I am notwilling to potentially jeopardize the out come of the many hours ofeffortthat it takes to make a bamboo fly rod for what may or may not be ameagersavings. from the talks that I've heard Harold give about the sorting involvedto getthe quality that he requests and the amounts of rejects I would suspectthatthat is what Mr Royer has gotten. I'm told that the Chinese can be verykeenin business and perhaps he has fallen victim. Just A Word Of Caution Wayne PS - as always I hope that agree or disagree comments please To Whom It May Concern,I have been wanting to comment on the "Cane Concerns" that have beenonthe list the last few days but hesitated. I am glad Wayne took the lead, aresponse has been needed.In the Spring of 1996 prior to the Corbett Lake Meeting in BC Mr. Royercontacted me and asked if I would consider brokering some Tonkin cane. Ilike money so I listened to what he had to say. He sent some samples tothemeeting and all thought it it looked pretty good. I usually trust my gut reactions when it comes to business deals and Ihad a strange feeling about this one. In short it sounded too good to betrue!!! In my experience if it sounds that way it usually is. For avariety of reasons I chose to pass on Mr. Royer's offer. I am glad I did.I know that Mr. Demarest and Mr. Calcettera both offer good products ata fair price. After that it's Buyer Beware. Ron Barch/Planing Form Newsletter from mrj@seanet.com Fri Feb 7 15:51:10 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA15345 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 15:51:09 -0600 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA02056 for Subject: dimensions Organization: Seanet I have just taken my latest (No.5) rod out of the wrapping thread and Inoticed that when I measured it across the flats, it measured up to .005over the dimensions of the individual splines. Now I "knocked" down theinside edge, and as this area in particular is going under a ferrule Imade sure of the dimentions when I planed the strip. Is this normal? Ihave talked to two rodmakers one of whom sells his rods, and they bothsaid that yes, this is normal, or at least quite common. I was figuringthat my problem may have been because I am fairly new to this and mytolerances are not as good as they could be. Other than the obviousquestion of "is this a normal occurrence", I am now wondering that ifthis is normal, it sort of puts a chink in the method of taking afinished rod and working backwards to get the spline dimensions forbuilding. -- Martin Jensen from santiago@ricochet.net Fri Feb 7 16:53:31 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18392 for; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 16:53:30 -0600 OAA18800 for ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 14:50:56 - Organization: Home Subject: Re: The Bamboo Thing...another perspective WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Over the past couple of days I have recieved a few direct e-mails askingwhatI think of the earlier posts concerning the offer of bamboo for sale byAndyRoyer of Bamboo Hardwoods. So I thought that I would respond to thelist.The question that the others asked - is this a good deal - This isone ofthose questionsthat only time will tell. But in my mind Daryll Whitehead has alreadyanswered it for me(US) . Because of the distance I have only talked toDaryllonce or twice but as with so many others - his reputation precedes him.Andwhen I read that the offered culm are not sufficient for Daryll's needs Idon't need to hear anything further.To be fair to Mr Royer - in what I've read he appears to be trying todescribe his product in a straight forward manner. And yes you can saythat Imay be prejusticed towards Harold and Eileen Demarest - I have knownthem foryears and our families are close.So any answer I give must look at the facts and not emotion.1) there is no mention of the depth of usable power fibers which isperhapsone of Daryll's objections.2) doing the mathematics of what according to Mr. Royer is usable - theTRUEcost per culm could be as high as $25/each.Perhaps what I would see as somewhat of an insult is the statementthatthe product IS good enough for the non professional user. Because Iconsiderbamboo rod making a hobby (That's why I'm left out of the lists at theend ofthose articles) I would be in this group as well. Personally I am notwilling to potentially jeopardize the out come of the many hours ofeffortthat it takes to make a bamboo fly rod for what may or may not be ameagersavings. from the talks that I've heard Harold give about the sorting involvedto getthe quality that he requests and the amounts of rejects I would suspectthatthat is what Mr Royer has gotten. I'm told that the Chinese can be verykeenin business and perhaps he has fallen victim. Just A Word Of Caution Wayne PS - as always I hope that agree or disagree comments please your word of caution is well taken. i posted the info and do not have any connection to the cane. i do not get a kickback or have a financial advantage, but i did purchase a bundle because i am a novice and with the bundle i should be able to produce a few very nice rods, but more importantly i will be able to practice flamming, heat treating, learning to plane, grind, sand, fit, steam, straighten, and anything else that will come my way for very little money. when i am more confident with my skills, i will choose only the best cane because my rods will be worth it. until then, hacking on this stuff is fine and even my wife does not mind the "practice" expense. just another perspective, leo from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 7 22:33:42 1997 ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 22:33:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Titebond II In a message dated 97-02-03 21:46:41 EST, you write: Still here, but in a different persona. I got laid off from my jobwith Chevron, but immediately found a new job. Dec 31 wasmy last day with Chevron, and Jan. 2 was my first day withthe new company. I'm getting paid more, and Chevron gaveme 2 weeks of full pay for every year I worked for them as aseverance package. That was a whole half a years pay. So, I can't complain. Anybody know of any good investments? The new company doesn't have an internet connection like Chevron did, so I started an account with AOL so I could stay in touch with you guys. I still use Titebond II, and haven't had any problems. I sometimes use Excel glue also. They both have been holding upwell, no failures. I think Titebond II is an acceptable glue aslong as you are careful about overheating it when you try tostraighten your blank. Franklin says it's good up to boilingtemp (212 F) and it's possible to exceed that temp with aheat gun during straightening. It doesn't have a very longworking time, you better have your splines bound andstraightened 15 minutes after you spread the glue on. Ihave seen Titebond II Extend in a wood workers catalogthat is supposed to have twice the working time, but Ihaven't tried it yet. Excel is harder to use, but has a 4hour working time. If your blank isn't straight by then, itnever will be. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 7 23:21:14 1997 ; Fri, 7 Feb 1997 23:21:12 -0600 Subject: Jerry Fosters Stress Curves Good job Jerry!!I looked at quite a few of the stress curvesand in every case they matched the curvesthat I generated with my Excel spreadsheet. To those unfamiliar with stress curves - Look at the Cattanach 7' 0" #4 DT stress curve. This rod is the nicestcasting rod I have come across so far.It has a fast action, throws a tight loop,but can turn over a 12 ft. leader with barely a foot of flyline past the tip top. Contrast that with any of the Garrison stress curves. Garrison rods are very slow. Some people like the way they cast. I do not. To me it feels like I can start the back cast, get a cup of coffee, drink half of it, then start the forward cast. While you are there takea look at the Paul Young rods. They can casta lot of line if you can adapt to the timing, butthe timing is complex. To me it feels like the rodis jointed and you have to cast in a slow fast slow manner - if that makes any sense. In my opinion stress curves are the only way tounderstand what type of action a taper will havebefore you actually make the rod. Darryl Hayashida from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Feb 8 01:36:34 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 01:36:33 -0600 Subject: Tapers Bill Thanks for the information l would like to know more about these pcprograms , l know that hex rod and rod maker won't work the taperbackwardsyou got to know what the curve is to start with. l know that the curvesthatl made working the math backwards produced curves that were not usable.Theywere up and down on my chart not a nice curve at all. Garrison tapers are pretty straight but not an even reduction of taper atone 5 in station you may have a .010 difference the next .007 the next .014.008 l know that this is because Garrison used stress curves to plot histapers . l've found that the garrison tapers to make fine rods but they are alittle to slow for me . What l've been doing is to start with a butt dia.and evenly reduce the taper by .014 per 5in station . lf needed l'll beef upthe tip to .065 -.070 depending on the line weight, some adjustment maybeneeded at the ferrule sation too but l base the taper on this .l like the results l think it could be possible to carry this out to 5ft sections and then cutthem back to make many different rod lenghts and weights depending onwhereyou cut the sections.Tell me what you think guys is there something wrong with this ? Thanks Gary from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 8 07:08:48 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id HAA22327 for; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 07:08:46 -0600 Subject: Re: dimensions Martin - It's normal and expected and the reason that taking a taper from a finishedrod will likley yield much different results than expected. There are a couple of things that you can do - -under shoot the taper to adjust for glue etc.- temper the rod @ final plane stage - this yields about "right on"measurements.The best is to ignore the whole business of final dimensions and cast whatyou got. If you like it, make another the same taper.The essence of rod making is repeatability - If each rod you build has thesame "overage" so what - adjust the taper accordingly and forget theoverage. I get measurements about right one -/+ 0.001>2 only if I temper afterfinalplanning. Expect that shrinkage of cane is offsetting addition of glue. Sothat's what I do now. best, Don At 13:53 07/02/97 -0800, you wrote:I have just taken my latest (No.5) rod out of the wrapping thread and Inoticed that when I measured it across the flats, it measured up to .005over the dimensions of the individual splines. Now I "knocked" down theinside edge, and as this area in particular is going under a ferrule Imade sure of the dimentions when I planed the strip. Is this normal? Ihave talked to two rodmakers one of whom sells his rods, and they bothsaid that yes, this is normal, or at least quite common. I was figuringthat my problem may have been because I am fairly new to this and mytolerances are not as good as they could be. Other than the obviousquestion of "is this a normal occurrence", I am now wondering that ifthis is normal, it sort of puts a chink in the method of taking afinished rod and working backwards to get the spline dimensions forbuilding. -- Martin Jensen from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 8 08:14:38 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:14:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III Ron,Amen to Bokstrom.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 8 08:14:42 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 08:14:40 -0600 Subject: Re: The Bamboo Thing Wayne,Your reaction is the same as mine.Hank. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 8 09:34:44 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 09:34:43 -0600 Subject: Re: Jerry Fosters Stress Curves Darryl - Nice to hear from you. I also was wondering what happened. Youwrote: from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sat Feb 8 10:49:18 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA27651 for; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 10:49:17 -0600 Subject: Burner Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is This may or may not be answerable, but what type of alcohol burner does anyone use for wraps? Any methods of application would be appreciated for both getting rid of the fuzzies associated with wraps, and the epoxies. Jon from mrj@seanet.com Sat Feb 8 11:50:13 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA29292 for; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 11:50:12 -0600 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20212 for Subject: Re: dimensions Organization: Seanet Hi Don,I seem to be having fairly consistent results with this occurrence (Ihate to call it a problem (G)) so I will try "undershooting the tapernext rod. I am heat treating the bamboo before I split it and no heattreating is done afterwards. I will stick with this practice right nowbut may experiment with tempering at a later stage in the future. BTW this rod that I am making is named "Don Andersons' Personalfavorite". This is the original taper as I like slow rods.I got thetaper from the Corbett Lake group three years ago. Martin - It's normal and expected and the reason that taking a taper from afinishedrod will likley yield much different results than expected. There are a couple of things that you can do - -under shoot the taper to adjust for glue etc.- temper the rod @ final plane stage - this yields about "right on"measurements.The best is to ignore the whole business of final dimensions and castwhatyou got. If you like it, make another the same taper.The essence of rod making is repeatability - If each rod you build has thesame "overage" so what - adjust the taper accordingly and forget theoverage. I get measurements about right one -/+ 0.001>2 only if I temper afterfinalplanning. Expect that shrinkage of cane is offsetting addition of glue. Sothat's what I do now. best, Don At 13:53 07/02/97 -0800, you wrote:I have just taken my latest (No.5) rod out of the wrapping thread and Inoticed that when I measured it across the flats, it measured up to .005over the dimensions of the individual splines. Now I "knocked" down theinside edge, and as this area in particular is going under a ferrule Imade sure of the dimentions when I planed the strip. Is this normal? Ihave talked to two rodmakers one of whom sells his rods, and they bothsaid that yes, this is normal, or at least quite common. I was figuringthat my problem may have been because I am fairly new to this and mytolerances are not as good as they could be. Other than the obviousquestion of "is this a normal occurrence", I am now wondering that ifthis is normal, it sort of puts a chink in the method of taking afinished rod and working backwards to get the spline dimensions forbuilding. -- Martin Jensen -- Martin Jensen from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Feb 8 19:26:00 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 19:25:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Burner Jon -This answer may not be what you are looking but here goes anyway.Therecan be several problems in using an alcohol lamp in trying to singe the'fuzzies' - The first thought is to try to eliminate the in the first place.I at one time used thread tensioners from a sewing machine to tension thewrapping thread. By tensioning just the spool of thread instead can make abig difference in reducing 'ol fuzzy one'.The rpoblem I had with trying to singe these pesky out bounds ran thegambit - from leaving soot on the thread to burn throughs a couple oftimes.So a different method was called for. Now I just ignore the fuzzies until Ihave two coats of varnish on - Then using a surgeons scalpel I shear themoff- the varnish coats and lock them in place so that the shearing can be doneeasily. There are several sources for scapel handles and blades - my wife is anurse which helped at first - now I get them from Appearence Products - I see them at the shows and make a yearly purchase. I get the smallhandleand the #11 blade (non sterile) which is the straight cut. I also use the scapel to scrape away the excess of the varnish that is onthe shaft after the two coats are dry - this overlay on the shaft is neededto hold the varnish on the wraps - without the over run you get varnishstarved wraps at the very end - this is caused by the sag of the varnishhasa tendency to draw the varnish toward the center of the wrap after it isapplied.Appearance Products215 - 628 - 0939Jim & Patti BorisNow you may be temped to us an xacto knife but the blades aren't assharpas a scapel blade. from 73251.1513@CompuServe.COM Sat Feb 8 21:22:39 1997 VAA18451 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 21:22:38 -0600 Subject: Dimensions I have also had the problem of rod dimensions after gluing exceeding theprodicted dimension based on the planing of individual splines. In Garrisons's book, he recommends removing .003 from the inside apex asthefinal step in planing although he doesn't explain why. Could this be toovercome the problem we are discussing? Regards,Karl Almquist from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Feb 8 21:40:47 1997 ; Sat, 8 Feb 1997 21:40:45 -0600 Subject: A Sad Note know of or have met Steve Southard, who owns The Fly Factory - LastweekSteve's brother Brian passed away. I am passing word along so that thosewanting to might send Steve a note on his loss. I'm sure he'd appreciate it. The Fly FactoryP. O. Box 709Grayling, MI 49738 or 102130.461@CompuServe.COM (Steve W. Southard) ThanksWayne from mrj@seanet.com Sun Feb 9 00:45:11 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id AAA06408 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 00:45:09 -0600 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA02300 for Subject: Re: Dimensions KARL W. ALMQUIST wrote: I have also had the problem of rod dimensions after gluing exceeding theprodicted dimension based on the planing of individual splines. In Garrisons's book, he recommends removing .003 from the inside apexas thefinal step in planing although he doesn't explain why. Could this be toovercome the problem we are discussing? Regards,Karl AlmquistI did take off the apex by at least .003, probably more. I think thatmaybe the thickness of the glue has something to do with it. Also, Iimagine that my dimensions are not as close as they will be when I get"good" at this.-- Martin Jensen from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 9 10:48:35 1997 ; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 10:48:34 -0600 Subject: Grayrock Well it's another 'Gray' day here in Michigan and cabin fever isstarting to take it's toll. This next weekend is the Flint Muddler Minnowsshow over at Swartz Creek and that will bring the group together for afirstplanning secession of TTBBQ 97. The subject has been put aside for awhilebut I have talked to several at the different shows and over the phone. Andperhaps it might be worthy of trying to get a plan together.A review - Offically the activities are scheduled for the 20 & 21 ofJune. But for the more addicted - the 14 is when some of us will bearriving.If the weather co operates it will be a time of fishing on the differentstreams in the area. If the weather doesn't co operate the business atSpike's will be good. As a side note the 14th is a special day for us anyway- That's the day Lyndi came to our family. At one point there was the idea of a work secession for binders andovenshells - The binders for those not coming are in the works - the plates arecut, the arms are made and I am working on pulleys this week with hopestomove them out by next weekend. Several oven shells have been shippedwith anew batch due out this week.Another thought that Doug Hall (our Atlanta representative) and I aregoing to try is to video tape the different demos and such with the idea ofbeing able to provide copies for those not able to come and to haveavailable A call for volunteers - anyone wishing to share techniques - tools -theory - or whatever.Mentioned ideas have been: nodeless constructionsharpening equipment - Sharp 'O' Rama - as Chris put ithex cork checkspowered tools - Al and GeorgeBill WaaraHarold and Eileen Demarestrod design programscreating a resourse listtaper sharelist of web sites And if there are any ideas of how the 'Sporting Flies' contest can behandicapped any further - your input would be appreciated - as in the pastyears the rules will be changes just prior to or during the event. A name? Aprons to commemorate the event? Focus or direction???? from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun Feb 9 11:36:04 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20131 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 11:36:00 -0600 mago.agonet.it (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA24075 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 18:39:13 +0100 Subject: Information Dear subscriber I seek other European subscribers, please, all European orItalian,contoct me for exchange information about bambbo Fly Rods.Thanks, Marco Boretti. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sun Feb 9 12:54:54 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA22476 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:54:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Jerry Fosters Stress Curves Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Ok, I understand the concept of a stress curve, but how do you read it? Jon from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sun Feb 9 12:56:03 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA22507 for; Sun, 9 Feb 1997 12:56:02 -0600 Subject: Guides? Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is I received bronzed guides for a Wes Jordan rod I restored. When I sanded the feet down silver was exposed. Any comments or finishing techniques? Does silk always go transparent? Jon from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 10 01:50:38 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 01:50:36 -0600 Subject: Re: Jerry Fosters Stress Curves In a message dated 97-02-09 13:58:50 EST, you write: Basically the higher up the curve goes the more stressand the more the bamboo bends. Garrison liked to use200,000 ounces per square inch for an upper limit at thetip although the book did say he would go to 220,000 forthe lighter, shorter rods. Garrison also went down to the 130,000 to 150,000 range at the handle. I feel that thisis the range the bamboo bends very little and bring that point up to around where the stripper guide would go fora faster rod. If I want an even faster rod, the 140,000 pointmight go as far up as the mid point of the rod. If you likea stiff tip, don't let the stresses go higher than 180,000to 190,000. If you look at the Paul Young rods, the stressesgo up at the 10 to 15 inch mark, then down at the midpoint of the rod, then back up again just before the handle.Interpeting this, I would conclude that the tip third is flexible,the mid third is stiff, and the rod is flexible again just in frontof the handle. What this all boils down to though, is you have to graph asmany rods as you can and actually cast them. If you dothis with enough rods you will begin to get a good ideaof what kind of stress curve produces the kind of rod youlike. And what I like in a rod may be entirely different fromwhat you like in a rod. Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Feb 10 10:18:24 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA18088 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 10:18:22 -0600 Subject: Paul ?????? Paul, You sent me a private email message that I would like to reply to BUT Ilostall of my email addresses when this thing crashed couple of days ago. Youremail address is not attached to your message. Please send me youraddress. regards, Don Andersen from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 10 10:40:43 1997 dfw-ix6.ix.netcom.com (8.6.13/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA23357; Mon, 10Feb 1997 08:34:24 -0800 Organization: Fred Bohls - Financial Services Rod Makers List Serve Subject: Charlie Fox -- TO ALL: A sad note --- Charlie Fox died early today. He had deterioated to apoint where this was a blessing. The world will miss him. I'm sure that the Cumberland Valley Chapter of Trout Unlimited will beco- ordinating some effort on his behalf. I'll try and keep you posted. Feel free to contact me with questions and I'll try to respond. FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732- 2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Feb 10 12:02:11 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25223 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 12:02:10 -0600 Subject: Re: Grayrock Wayne, talking about this year's RODMAKERS gathering seez... A name? Aprons to commemorate the event? Focus or direction???? We were originally thinking about a t-shirt to commemorate the eventuntil Wayne came up with the idea of a shop apron. I think that's agreat idea. A shop apron is something I know I would get a whole lot more use out of than a t-shirt. What do others think... As for the official name for the gathering, some of you may rememberthat we were collecting suggestions of names for this years eventshortly after we returned from last year's event. I will include atthe end of this the suggestions we have so far. If anyone else hasa good idea for a name please send it in. Mike - A PARTY by any other name... - BiondoSt. Louis, MO =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= The Greater Grayrock Bamboo Rod, Bent Hackle, Balded Bambi,and Grain Futures Appreciation Society Wayne Cattanach RODMAKERS Encounter I Mike Biondo RODMAKERS raising CANE Jerry Ballard Brotherhood (of) All Makers (of) Bamboo Originals Outing (BAMBOO I)Jack Bewley Bamboo-zers I Tim Lane Woodstock (well, ok then... "Canestock") Tim Lane Bamboo Boogie Victor Edwards Rod Rendezous Victor Edwards Arundinaria Assembly Victor Edwards Split Cane Stop (or Station) Victor Edwards Makers Meet Victor Edwards Spare-the-Rod or A Good Caning Bruce Conner Plain Cane Planers James Bond. Bamboo Rendezvous CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL The Caneards Convention Gary LandryAccording to the dictionary the suffix -ard means - One that habitually orexcessively is in a specified condition or performs a specified action. Cane Rod Aficionados, Makers, and Purveyors Social Reed Curry(CRAMPS for short. This would go well with the results of eating toomuch at the Barbeque. Great food, Victor!) The Bamboo Rodmakers Gathering at Grayling Jonathan Clarke B.G.'s aka BeeGees(BamBoo Grayling Gathering (BB-GG's) Tim Lane The Planing Forum Tom Ausfeld MEET YOUR MAKER Olaf Borge from whensel@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 10 13:58:12 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 11:57:39 -0800 Subject: BIGINERS FIRST ROD DEAR ALL MY FRIENDS AND HELPERS, THIS WEEKEND I FINISHED MY FIRST ROD AND TODAY I AM BUILDING THE VARNAISHING SYSTEM. I TOOK INTO A FLY SHOP WHERE A NUMBER OF THEGUYS WHO WORK THERE FISH BAMBOO AND BEILIEVE IT OR NOT THEY REALLYLIKED IT. UPDATE ON THE PERSOANL STORM. THE WIFE AND I WENT TO SOME PROFESSIONAL HELP AND SHE IS ALSO WORKING ALONE IN THESE MATTERS. THIS WEEKEND INDICATED TO ME WE ARE STARTING TO REBUILD THE MARRIGE. IHAVE GREAT HOPE IN THE THIS AREA.I SOLD THE BIG SCREEN AND A NUMBER OF OTHER ITEMS SO GUESS I AM STILL ON LINE . REGARDS TO ALL from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Feb 10 16:21:10 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11084 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:21:08 -0600 with BSMTP id 1331; Mon, 10 Feb 97 17:19:36 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9568; Mon, 10 Feb1997 17:19:36 -0500Subject: final form fix Would appreciate any comments on the following workplan, especially from those of you with more exp. in workingwith metal. I received two forms from Frank, who charged a really nominal fee,and they are just as he described. The basic problem is that whenthe holes were drilled for the adjustment screws, the two sides ofthe forms were not aligned (i.e., the beast isn't anywhere nearflat). With such a mindless error in the drilling, Frank must havebeen flamed at least. I would have been. These forms are designed with two adjustment screws and a 1/4" dowelat each of 17 stations (17 x 3 holes). I checked the width of eachside and they are close, about +/_ .0005. So no difference there.Once the new holes are drilled, the bottom edge of each chamfer shouldbe aligned, and form's top and bottom flat. So here is the planned fix. 1. Leave the push screws as is w/out redrilling and call thisside B. 2. Ignor the dowel holes running thru each side as these will notbe used. 3. Now here is the kicker. In order to avoid alot of unusable holesand redrilling of new holes, redesign the system for shoulder boltshence no need for dowels. Drill holes for shoulder bolts from side A (L=1.5", D=3/8") andeither a) use the current holes for the original 'pull screws' andredrill these holes, or b) forget the old holes and drill completelynew ones. The first option is a bit less work, a bit easier, andwill look a bit better. However, with the first option there arerisks because the old hole will now be enlarged leaving a max.of 1/16 between this and the ajoining and now obsolete dowel pin hole. 4. Using a "Dowel It" jig and hand drill:1st pass--drill 3/16 (or skip if old holes are used)2nd pass--drill 1/43rd pass--hand tap the entire hole at 5/16 18.4th pass--drill for shoulder fit with 23/64 to 1"+ depth5th pass--hand ream to 3/8 to 1"+ depthWill the basic design work?Any suggested course corrections? Bob. from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 10 16:56:58 1997 QAA14678 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:56:55-0600 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Organization: Fred Bohls - Financial Services Fly Fishing List Serve ,Federation of Fly Fishers Subject: Charlie Fox Update -- TO ALL: Arrangements have been set ... Viewing is to be from 12:00 to 1:30 onThursday, Feb. 13 at the Church of the Bretheren on Carlisle, PA. Services to follow at 1:30. The family requests that -- in place of flowers, contributions be madeto the Cumberland Valley Chapter of Trout Unlimited. Address either P.O. Box 520, Carlisle, PA 17013 or to me as I am the Treasurer. OurBoard, in consultation with the family, will decide on an appropriateuse. Again, if there are any questions, please fel free to drop a note. FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732- 2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 10 18:09:56 1997 SAA20545 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:09:55-0600 TAA29041 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:09:17 Subject: Tapers Hi Gary,You ask about the PC program that generates stress curves. It's calledFLYROD and was marketed by Len Histand, 40 Davis Rd.Doylestown PA.18901,215-348-5209. This software was offered at one time in the PlaningForm. Itdeals with 6, 5 and 4 sided tapers and I use it a lot.Did I read you right? Is there a taper program called "rod maker"? I'dlike to know more about that.Yes it seems that Garrison tapers could perhaps be linear- segmented anditsounds like your reducing tapers to 5 inch linear segments should work outOK. Could you give more details about "carrying this out to 5 ft sections---many different rod lengths--"? Think spring, Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 10 18:10:02 1997 SAA20564 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:10:01-0600 TAA29037 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:09:15 Subject: Tapers III Hi Ron,Maybe some are out there fishing, and we here are still shooting in thegeneral direction of a few pheasants, but by and large at this time of yearBS prevails so let's make the most of it. Bill from cbogart@ibm.net Mon Feb 10 18:18:30 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:18:28 -0600 TAA05423 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:21:16-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Grayrock Mike The Trout Bum BBQ gives the Tee Shirt - since weplan on the Friday Pizza bash with Brew - why not official beersteins?! practical and usable. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Mon Feb 10 18:44:50 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:44:49 -0600 TAA05705 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:47:43-0500 Priority: Normal Subject: Re: Grayrock Mike Let me add yet another suggested name: Hex-A-Mania Got to remember this is also time of the world famous hex hatch. Chris from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 10 18:53:19 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA23265 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:53:17 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id SAA28209 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:52:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Grayrock Chris I'll drink to that! from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 10 18:57:39 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA23523 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:57:37 -0600 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id SAA28788 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:57:07 -0600 Subject: Stress Curves Darryl Nice to have you back!! Would you mind if i include that statement somewhere on the page..Seemsthe most straight forward explanation of the curves i've read.. Jerry from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Mon Feb 10 18:59:47 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 18:59:45 -0600 2.0/2.12um) id QAA000.71; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 16:50:31 -0500 Subject: Re: final form fix Hi Bob: I agree it's unthinkable to not first verify the set up and alignment of theforms before performing any machining operations on them. But whateverdirection you choose to pursue to remedy this unfortunate situation, may I suggest youdispense with the doweling jig and hand drill method? Instead, if the $$$ are available, consult with a capable (and trustworthy) machinist that has a vertical mill, i.e., Bridgeport. He can set up andclamp the forms on the mill table before redrilling and tapping, providing therigidity and accuracy needed to hold them and machine them in their proper alignment. No matter which method you end up using, once the machining is done, besure to recheck the forms for tolerances and alignment as machining some coldrolled steels tends to relieve internal stresses which may cause minor distortions. Hope my 2/cents worth helps. Rich Brown from crocm@flinet.com Mon Feb 10 19:40:52 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id TAA26122 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 19:40:50 -0600 shell.flinet.com (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id UAA25342 for Subject: Silk Lines I recently acquired a "Old Gold" silk line made by the Horrocks Ibbotson Co.The line is brown and gold in color, 30 yards long, GBG (DT#8) and inexcellent condition. It is very flexable with no cracks or stickness.The line has is "oil tapered" and about 1/3 the thickness of modernlines. Before I fish it with one of my bamboo rods I would like tocondition (grease) it and continue to maintain it over the years. Doesanyone remember how to do this? I can't find references anywhere on theweb.Thanks Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Feb 10 20:38:05 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA27736 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 20:38:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Charlie Fox Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Jon from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Feb 10 21:05:47 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA28778 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:05:46 -0600 Subject: Grip Turning Priority: normalComments: Authenticated sender is Just a question, or rather a poll of opinions if you will. What methods would you all suggest for the turning of grips. Not including a lathe unless someone has one pretty cheap :) Jon from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Mon Feb 10 21:20:54 1997 VAA29303 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:20:53-0600 Subject: Re: Tapers III At 07:09 PM 2/10/97 -0500, you wrote:Hi Ron,Maybe some are out there fishing, and we here are still shooting in thegeneral direction of a few pheasants, but by and large at this time ofyearBS prevails so let's make the most of it. Bill BillI always catch the largest fish during the off season and make the bestgrouse shot from my easy chair! Rod designs always seem to change alotwhen one gets down off a bar stool and actually steps into the shop. Keep Well Old Friend,Ron> from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Feb 10 21:28:32 1997 VAA29687 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:28:31-0600 Subject: Re: Grip Turning Without as lathe, I think an electric drill on a base (Anglers Workshop)works pretty well. I suggest that you "anchor" the rest of the butt sectionwith a wheel type assembly that can be made very easily. (Likr the rodwrapping jigs you see in the magazines. JB At 22:03 10/02/97 +0000, you wrote:Just a question, or rather a poll of opinions if you will. What methods would you all suggest for the turning of grips. Not including a lathe unless someone has one pretty cheap :) Jon James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Feb 10 21:33:16 1997 VAA29945 for ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 21:33:14-0600 Subject: Re: Grayrock Wayne, If you end up embroidering anything, let me know as I have some FFspecificdigitised discs available (I can loan them to a most worthy cause), thiswill save you any digitising costs. I will check around for a cost too onthe apron as things in Canada can be less. JB At 11:48 09/02/97 -0500, you wrote:Well it's another 'Gray' day here in Michigan and cabin fever isstarting to take it's toll. This next weekend is the Flint Muddler Minnowsshow over at Swartz Creek and that will bring the group together for afirstplanning secession of TTBBQ 97. The subject has been put aside for awhilebut I have talked to several at the different shows and over the phone.Andperhaps it might be worthy of trying to get a plan together.A review - Offically the activities are scheduled for the 20 & 21 ofJune. But for the more addicted - the 14 is when some of us will bearriving.If the weather co operates it will be a time of fishing on the differentstreams in the area. If the weather doesn't co operate the business atSpike's will be good. As a side note the 14th is a special day for usanyway- That's the day Lyndi came to our family. At one point there was the idea of a work secession for binders andovenshells - The binders for those not coming are in the works - the platesarecut, the arms are made and I am working on pulleys this week with hopestomove them out by next weekend. Several oven shells have been shippedwith anew batch due out this week.Another thought that Doug Hall (our Atlanta representative) and I aregoing to try is to video tape the different demos and such with the ideaofbeing able to provide copies for those not able to come and to haveavailable A call for volunteers - anyone wishing to share techniques - tools -theory - or whatever.Mentioned ideas have been: nodeless constructionsharpening equipment - Sharp 'O' Rama - as Chris put ithex cork checkspowered tools - Al and GeorgeBill WaaraHarold and Eileen Demarestrod design programscreating a resourse listtaper sharelist of web sites And if there are any ideas of how the 'Sporting Flies' contest can behandicapped any further - your input would be appreciated - as in thepastyears the rules will be changes just prior to or during the event. A name? Aprons to commemorate the event? Focus or direction???? James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from mrj@seanet.com Mon Feb 10 22:15:32 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA01702 for; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:15:31 -0600 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA19055 for Subject: Re: Grip Turning I mount a drill motor in a bench clamp. I use a Zyliss vice but you couldmake one pretty easily. To support the rod, I slip pieces of fiberglass rodover the bamboo rod and tape it in position and use a couple of Vee blocks rod down. I also use a foot petal speed control from an old sewingmachine.I guess this is really just a home made lathe but this is really the bestway to turn the grips unless you have a real lathe. ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: Grip TurningDate: Monday, February 10, 1997 2:03 PM Just a question, or rather a poll of opinions if you will. What methods would you all suggest for the turning of grips. Not including a lathe unless someone has one pretty cheap :) Jon from DANNUGENT@aol.com Mon Feb 10 22:47:18 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 22:47:16 -0600 Subject: Re: final form fix BOBYou can drill the clearance side of the pull screw bigger. plug and weld one side of the dowl pin hole.Then redrill and ream.this should be done in a milling machine (BRIDGEPORT)Caution: welding should be done by a pro. (low heat) DAN from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Feb 10 23:11:15 1997 ; Mon, 10 Feb 1997 23:11:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Charlie Fox are many that haven't that should have been.Years ago when the flyfishing community was smaller than it is todayandthose that did it were also very concerned with the environment and thepassing on of knowledge there were two groups - one from Michigan andanother from Pennsylvania. I have never heard exactly how it started - perhaps theyears have schrouded that. But I'm sure it had something to do with thefishing and the seriousness of those involved.The tradition was that each group would host the other each summer foraweek or so of fishing. The Pennsylvania group normally fished the Letortandthe Michigan group fished the AuSable. Over the years the faces remainedmostly the same. The Stories I've heard tell of this exchange going on forabout 10 years or so. And just as it started it came to an end. Word has itthat a conflict occurred between a couple members of the group. I'm sureitwas just a reflection of life and relations in general. Several members ofthe group went on to do great things for the sport and hind sight mightshowthat each pushed one another to new plateaus. In a side trip to the second eastern rod makers gathering in PennsylvaniaI met a couple of that side of the group. They still remembered the daysspent together and were surprised that I knew the connections. To the bestofmy knowledge the group consisted of the following. Vince Marinaro - ever wonder how an AuSable riverboat got featured in thebook " In The Ring Of The Rise" Charlie Fox - "The Wonderful World of Trout" Art & Bill Flick - Art wrote "Streamside Guide to Naturals and TheirImitations" George Griffith - Trout Unlimited was founded in his living room 'Uncle' Art Neuman - Art is no relation - gave up his job and went on theroad for an entire year without pay to form T/U chapters through out thecountry. Also owned Wanigas Rod Company - His company sign is onpermanantdisplay at 'The Clubhouse' in Grayrock from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 11 01:20:11 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 01:20:09 -0600 Subject: Re: Stress Curves In a message dated 97-02-10 22:14:09 EST, you write: No I wouldn't mind at all. If you think it's good enough to beput on your excellent web page, go ahead. If you want I canreword it a bit to fit in the web page context a little better. Mypost was in response to a question posted by someone else. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Tue Feb 11 06:10:16 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id GAA25647 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:10:12 -0600 Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:10:05 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Stress Curves the most straight forward explanation of the curves i've read.. >> No I wouldn't mind at all. If you think it's good enough to beput on your excellent web page, go ahead. If you want I canreword it a bit to fit in the web page context a little better. Mypost was in response to a question posted by someone else. Darryl Hayashida Possibly add a little about what the x-y axis is all about, but apart from that, an excellent description. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Anachemrpo@aol.com Tue Feb 11 06:49:42 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 06:49:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Charlie Fox In a message dated 97-02-10 21:46:07 EST, you write: Yikes! Have some fun and explore "The Wonderful World of Trout". byCharlesFox from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Feb 11 07:40:25 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 07:40:24 -0600 Subject: Re: Silk Lines ED --You need to find some "red tin" mucilin to use as the grease. Theyalsosell it in a "green tin", but this is a synthetic that should not be used onsilk. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 11 08:45:57 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id IAA01848 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 08:45:54 -0600 Subject: John Bokstrom's Premier To all, Talked to John last nite and he's finally bought a machine fast enough toplay with us on Rodmakers etc. He expects to be "wired" by tommorrownite. rodmakers get-together in Merritt, British Columbia. This event, I believe,marked the first time a bunch of cane adicts got together to share/trade isa direct result of John's efforts. The Merritt meetings spawned othermeetings in other places. John has contributed a host of ideas to the advancement of rodmaking. ThePlane Leveler on the Rodmakers Homepage is just an example of them. John's email address is You can help me and John [for those that still have it] by posting to therodmakers list the process to get "signed on" and forwarding a copy of theprocess to him and me at our respective addresses. my thanx and please make John welcome, regards, Don from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 11 09:14:02 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:14:01 -0600 Subject: Re: Grip Turning In a message dated 97-02-10 22:11:23 EST, you write: Just a question, or rather a poll of opinions if you will. What methods would you all suggest for the turning of grips. Not including a lathe unless someone has one pretty cheap :) Jon to prevent dings, pointed the ferrule away and began filing strokes aft tofwd, turning the shaft a bit after each stroke or two. You can get verygoodresults to the point of not being able to discern bumps when spinning thegrip between thumb and forefinger as well as good concentricity. Asuccession of coarse-to-fine files and then sand papers along withpatiencesees the job through. Any reasonable grip shape is possible, and takesonlya a couple hours or so. Regards,Richard Tyree from whensel@ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 11 09:47:57 1997 JAA05458 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 09:47:56-0600 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Titebond II You wrote: In a message dated 97-02-03 21:46:41 EST, you write: in quite some time. >> Still here, but in a different persona. I got laid off from my jobwith Chevron, but immediately found a new job. Dec 31 wasmy last day with Chevron, and Jan. 2 was my first day withthe new company. I'm getting paid more, and Chevron gaveme 2 weeks of full pay for every year I worked for them as aseverance package. That was a whole half a years pay. So, I can't complain. Anybody know of any good investments? The new company doesn't have an internet connection like Chevron did, so I started an account with AOL so I could stay in touch with you guys. I still use Titebond II, and haven't had any problems. I sometimes use Excel glue also. They both have been holding upwell, no failures. I think Titebond II is an acceptable glue aslong as you are careful about overheating it when you try tostraighten your blank. Franklin says it's good up to boilingtemp (212 F) and it's possible to exceed that temp with aheat gun during straightening. It doesn't have a very longworking time, you better have your splines bound andstraightened 15 minutes after you spread the glue on. Ihave seen Titebond II Extend in a wood workers catalogthat is supposed to have twice the working time, but Ihaven't tried it yet. Excel is harder to use, but has a 4hour working time. If your blank isn't straight by then, itnever will be. Darryl HayashidaHello Bill in Denver> I use that dlue also and enjoy the easy cleanup. The rod maker that John Gierach writes about Mike Clark out of Lyons Colorado I believe use s it also. If its good enough for Mike Clark its good enough for me. Bill in Denver from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Tue Feb 11 10:41:08 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:41:06 -0600 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Bibliography for the archives? Does anyone have a semi-complete bibliography on books/articles dealingwith cane rod making that we could submit to Jerry's (the other Jerry)archive? Ocassionaly I see people referencing books that I was not awareexisted. Thanks,Jerry Ballard (whose other vice is book collecting)ballard@zen.wes.army.mil from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Tue Feb 11 10:52:00 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA09090 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 10:51:58 -0600 with BSMTP id 6452; Tue, 11 Feb 97 11:50:50 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 5730; Tue, 11 Feb1997 11:50:50 -0500Subject: Re: Grip Turning Jon, I have often used a 24" length of "all thread"about 1/4 or 3/8 in dia. Raw cork is glued and placedon the steel dowel of "all thread", bound in placewith appropriate nuts etc. Then I use my drill asthe lathe, with a home made jig to hold the drill. Thesteel bar is placed in the drill, held in place bythe jig and parallel to the work bench. Now if yourun this the far end of the bar will wobble aroundlike crazy, so you need one more jig to keep it allturning true. A length of 2x 4 mounted perpendicularto the bench and with a hole in it matching the diaof the bar does the trick. A few 1" wide strips ofsand paper and your all set. Bob. from holmesr@mwr.kic.or.jp Tue Feb 11 11:33:08 1997 ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 11:33:06 -0600 Subject: HELLO ARUNDINARIA AMABILIS SPLITTERS i've been hanging around for about a month or so now, downloaded all the archives except the jan. 95 - feb 96, that bruce has on his faq. i'll have to tell all that i wanted to just make fishing rods as a hobby, i had know idea there was anything but graphite or cheaper graphite, untili started searching/surfing the net to find info. what i found was a group of dedicated professional people that somehow became my friends.reading all the back archived material and current material from: bruce conner( great faq bruce! thanks!!) mikaels flyfishing, which was the first i'd found of any kind of rod building and which ultimately led me to bruce, wayne, frank, chris,darryl,don,tom, tony, and all of you that have contributed and keep contributing to this profession.i've sent for garrison's book and wayne's book. talked (email) with frank, and just want to get started. I'm in okinawa japan, tried findingthe water stone and splitters, guess that must be a mainland japan thingbecause as of yet have not figured it out or found, i thought i might beable to locate and get better prices from here. so as i may contributesomething to you cane scientists. just want to let you know that i'm out here learning from you and listening. don't think for a minute that your talking on deaf ears. thanks for your motivation and expertise..keep it coming... wesley d. parker from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Feb 11 13:08:42 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18336 for ;Tue, 11 Feb 1997 13:08:40 - 0600 Subject: Re: Titebond II I use it also and I like it. Only problem has been the very rapid set uptime. I just got some of the extender last week. I'll let you know how itworks.Ralph from whensel@ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 11 15:49:22 1997 ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: HELLO ARUNDINARIA AMABILIS SPLITTERS You wrote: i've been hanging around for about a month or so now, downloaded all the archives except the jan. 95 - feb 96, that bruce has on his faq. i'll have to tell all that i wanted to just make fishing rods as a hobby, i had know idea there was anything but graphite or cheaper graphite, untili started searching/surfing the net to find info. what i found was a group of dedicated professional people that somehow became my friends.reading all the back archived material and current material from: bruce conner( great faq bruce! thanks!!) mikaels flyfishing, which was the first i'd found of any kind of rod building and which ultimately led me to bruce, wayne, frank, chris,darryl,don,tom, tony, and all of you that have contributed and keep contributing to this profession.i've sent for garrison's book and wayne's book. talked (email) with frank, and just want to get started. I'm in okinawa japan, tried findingthe water stone and splitters, guess that must be a mainland japan thingbecause as of yet have not figured it out or found, i thought i might beable to locate and get better prices from here. so as i may contributesomething to you cane scientists. just want to let you know that i'm out here learning from you and listening. don't think for a minute that your talking on deaf ears. thanks for your motivation and expertise..keep it coming... wesley d. parker Hello Wesley, Man I just finished my first rod and hate to say it but looks damn good very pretty compared to my favorite rod which was made by a local rod maker in Colorado. It blows my mind that my first rod came out better than one I paid $700 for and I still love the one I bought. Tomarrow I might take it out on the water. It looks great but maybe it wont cast worth a damn. Oh well it is mine so I will love it till the day I die because its the first one I ever built. The Cat. vedios are great get those also. Regards Bill in Colorado from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Tue Feb 11 16:28:53 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA27861 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 16:28:51 -0600 Subject: Re: depth gauge Dear Phil, Found the same problem with the available points made in China. That iswhyI had to have one reground to 60 degrees. I made my own block. Works fine. Jim. from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Tue Feb 11 18:34:10 1997 SAA02865 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:34:08-0600 ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Organization: Fred Bohls - Financial Services Subject: Re: Bibliography for the archives? Jerry Ballard wrote: Does anyone have a semi-complete bibliography on books/articlesdealingwith cane rod making that we could submit to Jerry's (the other Jerry)archive? Ocassionaly I see people referencing books that I was notawareexisted. Thanks,Jerry Ballard (whose other vice is book collecting)ballard@zen.wes.army.mil -- SUPER IDEA ... We all know of Garrison, Cattanach, Kirkland, Sinclaire, Kreider, etc,but there must be authors of lesser renown that have something to say. I just learned that George Leonard Herter had a book on cane rodbuilding. Maybe some of these aren't worth a look, but those of you with more'senority' could give advice through the building of this bibliographythat could include titles that, if nothing else, have some historicalnote.FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from crocm@flinet.com Tue Feb 11 18:57:49 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA03620 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 18:57:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Silk Lines Hi Richard and Don Thanks for the input, I completely forgot about that thread in the archives.Given the excellent condition of this line, I will start with the "red tinmucilin" if I can find it again. The last tin I had melted and waterproofedmy vest, but that was at least 25 years ago. Thanks again, BTW the 9' 12wt offshore is almost done, if the rod works, I'll be glad toshare the taper. Ed Muraskicrocm@flinet.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Feb 11 19:45:18 1997 TAA05234 for ; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 19:45:15-0600 Subject: A suggestion ofthe memories is the tee shirts that they get all their new and old friendsto sign. The idea of an apron came up last year at the class that I wasteaching at 'The Clubhouse' - all the students signed it and it is nowhanging on the wall as part of the memories that were created there I onlywish it had started with the first class that I taught. That's why I thoughtof getting an apron to celebrate the event - markers could be available sothat all your new and old friends can sign your apron. Just think of it assummer camp for more grown up kids. Then when your'e planing away ayear fromnow you will have better linkage to the group. Now I know that there will need to be a couple of 2 or 3 x aprons for acouple of us but to keep the printing cost down I also suggest the wording- Rodmakers At Grayrock 97 - Comments Please from those thinking about attending???????? Wayne Chris - we could do styrofoam beer can wraps from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 11 20:09:05 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA06126 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:09:04 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12352 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:07:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Grayrock Hiya, from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 11 20:10:23 1997 wugate.wustl.edu (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA06159 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 20:10:22 -0600 sirus.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12374 for; Tue, 11 Feb 1997 21:08:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Grayrock