from KDLoup@aol.com Sat Mar 1 09:36:19 1997 Subject: varnish Does anyone have any experience using Behr 45 Sunblocking U.V.I. SuperSparVarnish? Any pros or cons would be appreciated. Kurt from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Mar 1 09:58:33 1997 Subject: Re: Garrison Rod Did it make your back crawl just a little to cast a $10K rod? Yes it did--I restrained my usual inpulse to see if I could cast all the wayacross the parking lot. We were VERY polite. from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 1 10:13:08 1997 ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: #100 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The next 100th for me will be the number of students that I've taughtrod making first hand - to date there are 67. Wayne, I wonder how many THOUSAND rods have been built with your book? I'm on my first but I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have tackled itwithout the aid of your book. CONGRATULATIONS! Mike -- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625 from jfoster@gte.net Sat Mar 1 11:06:48 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id LAA01053 for; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 11:06:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Archives? Reed Curry has supplied us with a whole new group of tapers (Pezon/Michel,F E Thomas, Jim Payne, and a Halstead) check them out in the taper archive Thanks Reed Jerry from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Mar 1 14:09:37 1997 Subject: Re: hexrod In a message dated 97-02-28 21:07:34 EST, you write: WOWIf you haven't run into it before check out L W's in the links list..knock you socks off international links.. Jerry Hi Jerry - for those of us who are not all that steeped in computer/netexpertise, would you please go into a bit of detail on the above? Ie, howdoI access the above for checking it out? Thanks and Best Regards,Richard from GLohkamp@aol.com Sat Mar 1 14:46:35 1997 Subject: rod builders meeting Hello All l'am going to post the notice for the Portland Oregon rod builders meetingagain l see new builders to the list all the time so just in case l've missedsomeone ,it will be April 12th 1997 in TroutDale Oregon which is about 18miles east of Portland . This is a one day meeting round table disscussion .So far we have 25 builders coming from all around the NorthWest . RayGouldwill be there with any luck his new book will be printed in time for themeeting . Ed Hartzell , Jack Byrd , Tom Fulk as well as Philip Lipton , AlBellinger to name afew . Harold Demarest will be attending he is truely agreat man we are lucky he can make it . There is still room for 20 morepeople lf you would like some detailed information about the meetingpleasefeel free to contact me . Hope you can make it .Gary Lohkamp503-666-4834 glohkamp@aol.com from jfoster@gte.net Sat Mar 1 14:46:59 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id OAA06157 for; Sat, 1 Mar 1997 14:46:53 -0600 Subject: Re: hexrod Richard, all Generally when I refer to the archives I'm talking about Http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm After that I kind of use a shorthand to refer to the specific page I'mrefering to. Each of the pages has an icon ( a little picture ) and/or sometimes ahighlighted and underlined text section. These are clickable items,meaning if you drag your mouse curser ( you MUST have a mouse ) over anyof the special items the normal curser will turn to a little hand with afinger (index finger) which means you can click now. This will cause thepage under the icon to spool to your screen. and so on and so on. I usually refer to the "links of interest" as just "links". etc. Most of the problems people have are related to AOL or old AOL browsers.I'd suggest getting the newest version off the AOL page if my home pageis splattered all over your screen. I'm sorry about the rma text.. The additional new line sequences won'tslow down your transfer but it is hard to read.. The problem is when Iupload the ram text from sirronald I have to delete the soft returnswhich cause automatic line wrapping. The Hard returns (return Key )sometimes cause and additional line feed accompaning them. That is whatcauses the addition line in your output. It is also caused by listserverusers (all of us) who hit the return key while sending messages unsteadof letting the mailer wrap the lines for you. Usually the extra line is a function of your local setup..somewhere, orAOL. Richard if you would post your exact machine type and AOL browserversion maybe someone can tell you how to correct the extra line feed. The other problem is since Mike "like" Biondo has turned on the newarchive process I'm getting more X-400 (addressing) information than themessage is long, which also makes the messages look ugly and hard tosort through. to download the rest of last month. I know some of this is confusing but we'll get it right for you If this is all nonsense Richard let me know your phone no. and I'll giveyou a call Jerry from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 1 15:36:46 1997 ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: #100 You wrote: Occassionally there are those that finish there first rod that willshare that with the list. Well, earlier this evening I started my 100th rod.Fifteen years ago I questioned whether I would ever get the first onefinished let alone a hundred. There were many nights that I would shut offthe lights in the basement and finally make it to bed only to wonder if Ihadn't started something that I may not be able to finish. It doesn't seemlike it's been that long ago.On the Winston Waters tape, Glen Brackett talks of reaching thatmilestone in his career. Gary Howells had introduced him to rod making andlike the rest of us Glen had all the questions. Apparently Gary, at one pointin time, told Glen that after he had made his 100th rod to ask his questionsagain. Glen doesn't talk of it further. It seems that as we mature atsomething the why questions sort of transend into knowledge but yet somequestions remain - only our focus is keener. I've often said that if I canonly tell all the things that went wrong - you would have to be creative incoming up with 'new' mistakes.The next 100th for me will be the number of students that I've taughtrod making first hand - to date there are 67. In the classes the excitementstarts about wednesday with the gluing of the first sections. Up to thatpoint the tension can be felt as everyone struggles with the new experience.And for some that excitement will last a lifetime. I know that I'm stillcaught up with it myself - it has become food for the soul.Now I've got it figured that in making each rod about 8 cubic feet ofshavings are generated - that means that I've planed away 3 dump truck loadsto make about 20 pounds of fly rods. Gee - a culm weights from 7 1/2 to 9pounds - I could have saved some time and just slapped a few guides on acouple of culms. And speaking of time - I figure that I've missed 5000 hours(or there 'bout) of laying on the couch and watching TV.Dear Wayne,Congrats go to you. I have finished three rods after buying your tapes and book. I was remote student and I thankyou. I am building up in the near future a 6'6" your taper and it will go in a local fly shop BUSINESS IS BUSNIESS: i PAY WITH EVERY THING NOW WITH CASH ORMONEY ORDER. MY QUESTION TO YOU DID I EVER PAY YOU FOR THE OVEN? IREMEMBER WHEN IT ARRIVED NOT SEEING A ENVOICE WITH A PRICE. I HONESTY DONT REMEMBER. PLEASE PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT I OWE YOU FOR THE OVEN. I FEEL I DIDNOT PAY YOU HOWEVER I WAS BUYING SO MANY THINGS FOR THISROD MAKING LOTS OF RECIEPTS WHEN AWAY CAUSE I DECIDED NOT TO FIGUREOUT HOW LONG OR HOW MUCH IT COST ME TO MAKE MY FIRST ROD. PLUS I HAVE TREIDTO STAY OUT OF DEVORCE COURTS. I EVEN GAVE MY WIFE A 7'6" ROD THEOTHER DAY AS AN ANNERVERFARY PRESENT. BILL IN DENVER Wayne from FFer4trout@aol.com Sat Mar 1 16:38:41 1997 Subject: Re: #100 Wayne, While some of us are just legends in our own minds, you're truely a legendinyour own time. Thanks for writting your book (&video) and all the helpoffered on this list too. When my finances allows, I'll be taking the big plunge - "The finalfrontier"! Then you can cut another notch in the grip of your wrapping machine. Don Burns PS - Congrad's on turning 100. from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Mar 1 22:02:54 1997 00:02:22 -0500 Subject: long ago and far away Several years ago an elderly lady called me after an article on bamboorodsappeared in the newspaper. She had some old fishing tackle that she shedidnot want and asked if I would be interested.I am not a collector and I am not really interested in old rods, refinishingetc. The lady sounded so interesting and she was a fly fisherman so thewifeand I paid a visit.The Lady lived in a big old house on the lake with servants quarters, tenniscourts and formal gardens. A bygone age in Canada I'm afraid.I was shown a couple of Hardy bamboo Salmon rods, "brand new" with thepricetags still on them and a Hardy Uniqua reel in a leather case and a dozenfully dressed Salmon flys. The tackle had belonged to a relative that had been killed in the trenchesin 1916 and had been away when the telegramme arrived.I suggested that the reel might be worth something to a collector becauseitwas in such good condition but I was not so sure about double handedsalmonrods. The lady said take them, she was going to throw them away, I couldsell them if I wanted to.I put the rods in the corner of my workshop and never really touched them beautiful, all except one which was dog-eared and had obviously beenfished.I untied one of the rods and inspected it, the finish had melted down alittle but it was still straight( that is saying something for a 14ft rod).I inspected the grip and noticed that there were some scales attached tothecork.This got me thinking, was fly fishing the last thing the young Canadianofficer did before going to France for King and Country? I had such a sadfeeling, the scales had been on the rod for almost 80 years, back in an ageso different from what we live in now.To me this rod is priceless, it is a heroes rod.Terry Ackland from KDLoup@aol.com Sat Mar 1 23:08:57 1997 Subject: Varnish I have a refinish rod that is ready for guide wrapping and varnishing. Noneof the books that I have read have recommended any particular brand ofvarnish. I have been experimenting with Behr 45 Super Spar Varnish usingathinned amount as a color preserver prior to an unthinned dippedapplicationof varnish. Before I use this on my rod, can someone relate theirexperience with the above product or recommend a brand of varnish thathasgiven them good results? If a color preserver is used over the threadwrapsbefore varnishing with your recommended finish, please specify preserverandmethod. Thanks in advance. Kurt from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sat Mar 1 23:13:28 1997 ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Good Bye God Bless and Tight Lines Dear Everyone, I have built my rods the addiction is set tight in my brain and forever the rods will be made. Thanks to all...I read Harry Middleton book "The Bright Country" and I wish I had know him personally. I have decided to leave the internet because cycber space is an illusion that I have fallen into and had exspected more humanity than I found. Its not you its me..... Snail mail welcome: Bill Hensel4701 So delaware St.Englewood, Co 80110 Tel 1-303-783-3957 I have been to hell and back again I want to be free on the system of ...... you will find me on the water. Build more rods and laugh more and find love. Good bye if any one really cares it is doubted.... from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 2 08:08:55 1997 Subject: Re: long ago and far away Terry,What you just wrote sort of sums up for me just what this bamboo thingisall about.Thanks.Hank. from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun Mar 2 12:04:57 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.0/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA20183 for; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 19:07:59 +0100 Subject: RE Information to Mark Huff Dear Mark,I have a problems with E-mail system.I send this message from Rodmakers list, enclose the GIorgio Dallariadrrees.Sincerely,Marco. GIORGIO DALLARIVia Morane 4841100 ModenaItaly from sats@gte.net Sun Mar 2 12:14:34 1997 ; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 12:14:30 -0600 Subject: Rebuilding II Just as I suspected. I taped the guides on my experiment yesterday morning, before going tothe Frank Sargent sporting show, in Tampa. (I was tying for my club.) The rod worked well to about 45 feet. After that performance fell offrapidly. I believe the reason is that I removed far too much of the outerpower fibers. I think that while I'm casting with the tip section ofthe rod, everything's fine, but when I start putting enough power inmy cast to get the butt section there isn't enough there to "stand up"to the cast. This has led me to rethink my approach. I'm now thinking aboutthe FLEX of the rod, rather then it's taper. The way I see it right now flex is what gives a rod it'spersonality. A fast rod has less flex in the butt then a slower rod.I believe flex in a rod has two major components: I'll call the first"elasticity," the ability to bend from the rod's axis, and what I'llcall "snap," the speed and force with which the rod returns to is'taxis. Each quality brings something important to a rod. A rod that istoo stiff could break while fighting fish, (or even casting, if it wastoo ridged and too frail.) It evens out the power applied to ourcast. It can even add power from the double hall.Snap is what allows us to get the line out where we want it. Itactually transfers the energy stored in the bent rod to the fly line. The rod that I'm toying with now lacks the second quality in it'sbutt section. So for my next project, I'd like to approach the modification ofthe taper from this angle. The problem is, I don't know where tostart. I guess that if I were to bend enough bamboo fly rods, I'deventually get a "Feel" for what I wanted. I don't know enough peoplewho own bamboo fly rods that would allow me the opportunity ofdeveloping that feel. Any suggestions? p.s. I was bumped from the list for about 48 hours this weekend. If Idon't respond to a post, please try me direct.... Thanks Terry Kirkpatrick Safety Harbor, Fl. sats@gte.net from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Sun Mar 2 18:44:10 1997 Subject: Leonard taper Two questions (actually one question and one request): When micing a rod, how much should one deduct for varnish? I suspectitshould vary with kind of finish etc, but is there some typical calculation? It's a 6' with a 11/64 ferrule.[The larger story here is that I miced one, but don't have muchconfidencein the numbers: and the measurements around the ferrule and grip are, ofcourse, estimates.] I would be quite grateful if someone could send memorereliable dimensions. --Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from jfoster@gte.net Sun Mar 2 19:15:10 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id TAA14236 for; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 19:15:06 -0600 Subject: Re: Leonard taper Speaking of tapers A new guy on the list Don DeLoach happens to have a beautiful 8' 6" E CPowell. I think you guys should coerse him into poping with the taper. I'll help, Don. I had a chance to cast it, talk about smooth Jerry from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sun Mar 2 19:40:09 1997 Subject: Guide Wraps? Here is a question for you all... Has anyone ever had epoxy or varnish creep up the guide feet? A capillary action it looks like. It was not apparent on the first thin coat. But upon further applications the epoxy created a clump (?) under the guide feet.Any ideas or comments? Jon in Ithaca from jfoster@gte.net Sun Mar 2 21:10:33 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id VAA24792 for; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 21:10:30 -0600 Subject: tapers I know it's awful late but i finally got the grayrock 96 tapers posted a leonard, an fe thomas, a calcutta special, and a mystery rod.. i'm not sure i did them justice so you'd better check them out richard They have their own icon , grayrock 96 jerry from FFer4trout@aol.com Sun Mar 2 21:19:11 1997 Subject: Re: long ago and far away In a message dated 97-03-01 23:05:07 EST, you write: To me this rod is priceless, it is a heroes rod.Terry Ackland Hear, hear! from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Mar 2 21:36:17 1997 Subject: Re: Guide Wraps? At 20:23 02/03/97 +0000, Jon wrote:Here is a question for you all... Has anyone ever had epoxy or varnish creep up the guide feet? A capillary action it looks like. It was not apparent on the first thin coat. But upon further applications the epoxy created a clump (?) under the guide feet.Any ideas or comments? Jon in Ithaca Jon, Just stripped a rod that used varnish on the guide wraps and there was alittle bit of varnish under each foot - didn't measure depth but it may havebeen about 0.002". Suspect the varnish filled in the irregularities aroundthe guide foot when the guides wraps were coated. I know that I didn'tfile/grind/lap the guide feet flat prior to installation. Never use epoxy. regards, Don from rbrown@infocom.net Sun Mar 2 22:03:54 1997 login1.infocom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA25473 for; Sun, 2 Mar 1997 22:05:50 -0600 Subject: Mail Problem Having problems with the bulletin board. This is a check. Thanks Rob Brown from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Mar 3 08:51:28 1997 Subject: Re: Guide Wraps? In a message dated 97-03-02 20:41:29 EST, you write: Here is a question for you all... Has anyone ever had epoxy or varnish creep up the guide feet? A capillary action it looks like. It was not apparent on the first thin coat. But upon further applications the epoxy created a clump (?) under the guide feet.Any ideas or comments? Jon in Ithaca Jon - If you mean varnish migrating out from under the wrap and along theguide and spreading out onto the bamboo to a point where the guide beginstoclimb steeply, that has happened to me when, (1) c/p not being used, (2) inan attempt to wet out the thread, thined the 1st coat maybe too much, andespecially, (3) when the first coat is put on too heavily coupled with (2),above.Regards,RTyree from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Mar 3 09:56:02 1997 with BSMTP id 9699; Mon, 03 Mar 97 10:54:49 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9884; Mon, 3 Mar1997 10:54:48 -0500Subject: Re: #100 congratulations Wayne, that's a lot of shavings.Let you know when I finish my first. Binder is nowunder construction. Bob. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Mar 3 10:35:50 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA240986946; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 08:35:46 -0800 Subject: RE: Varnish I use a spar varnish made by Carver Tripp. It is titled marine super spar varnish and comes in a high gloss finish, which I prefer. I have also used Man- O-War high gloss and matte finish spar varnish. I didn't care for the matte finish and had some trouble with shiny streaks. I use a dip tube to apply the final coat of varnish over the guides, wraps and blank. No it doesn't create drips at the guides, and no it doesn't leave an ugly film on the guides. preservers, as well as flex coat and more recently Parks laquer. The laquer I used darkens the thread(Which is fine in most cases and original). I have found the best true color retention, (if that is your goal) with the alcohol based Gudebrod. I apply two 50% thinned coats of theGudebrod, followed by five coats of flex coat. I like the flex coats ease of use and it will fill gaps nicely (if you like that look, I do). If your using 3/0 thread then the build is not that drastic even with seven total coats of preserver. Following color preservation I brush a coat of spar varnish onto the wraps to check for a good seal. If the wraps are not completely sealed you will soon see a dark patch developing at a weak spot on the wrap, and will need to start over on that wrap(if the darkness bothers you). Once all the wraps are sealed and tested with the spar varnish I dip the entire section into a tube of spar varnish. Dipping over the guides gives you a seamless, hopefully flawless appearance. I'm still experimenting with color preserver combinations. Others may reach their desired goals with an easier method. Hope this helps. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from thezig@ix.netcom.com Mon Mar 3 11:45:13 1997 ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Leonard taper Jerry Foster wrote: Speaking of tapers A new guy on the list Don DeLoach happens to have a beautiful 8' 6" E CPowell. I think you guys should coerse him into poping with the taper. I'll help, Don. I had a chance to cast it, talk about smooth JerryIs it an E.C. or a Tony Maslan powell. The hookkeeper is the tipoff. Also Hollowbuilt or solid?jz from hood@hpesdah.fc.hp.com Mon Mar 3 11:58:17 1997 palrel3.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA26690 for (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA00389; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:58:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Some Numbers for Hollowbuilt Rods! David A. Hood wrote: Using Garrison's equations and Waynes 7'6" #5 rod as an example: Assumptions:Action length 75 feetCast length 40 inchesFerrule weight 0.22 ounces Cool! But did you mean Action length of 75 INCHES and Cast length or 40FEET? Of course, I live in an apartment and when I cast in here, thecasts are about 40 inches! Yea, what he said! I also assumed that bamboo is homogeneous in bothdensity and strength; this assumption will serve adequately for smallrods but not so well for very large rods. Davidhood@fc.hp.com from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Mon Mar 3 12:24:20 1997 2.0/2.12um) id KAA000.41; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 10:12:11 -0500 Subject: Re: #100 Wayne: What a milestone! May you experience as much success and enjoyment from your second hundred as your first. My wife (bless her) gave me copies of your video for Christmas last year and they've helped me greatly to further understandcane rodmaking. Thanks for all you've done to further "the art." Best regards, Rich Brown from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon Mar 3 14:58:28 1997 with ESMTP id OAA10518; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 14:48:03 -0600 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA07554; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.8.3) with SMTP id TPUXBDAA; Mon, 3 Mar 199714:48:03 -0600 (Central Standard Time) boundary="BeyondBoundary_2_Mon_Mar_03_14:48:00_1997__4823" Subject: E.C. Powell 8'6" --BeyondBoundary_2_Mon_Mar_03_14:48:00_1997__4823 Jim, The rod was restored by Glenn Brackett at Winston, who is widelyacknowledgedas an expert on both Powell and Maslan. I asked Glenn what he thought andhesaid that in all probability it was E.C.'s work, citing the guide wraps andseveral other details. My Mom has had the rod since the early fifties(aboutthe time E.C. quit making rods, right?) so it may well have been one ofE.C.'slast. I'm pretty sure its hollow-built too. How can I find this out--I wasthinkingabout weighing it(?) I thought E.C. only built hollow rods. This was why hislonger rods were so good--they could be made so much lighter. The hookkeeper is a small snake guide--was this original equipment? Iassume itwas since Glenn's instructions were to restore the rod to its original spec. Don DeLoach P.S. I finally got a chance to take the rod on the water and it was awonderfulto spend the day with--my first fishing experience with a cane rod. I knowwhatyou mean about the tip action now Jerry; very supple and a joy to cast. Thebest part: after only about five minutes of fishing I hooked a fat, 17"rainbowthat I had to put on the reel when he ripped off about fifty feet of line onhis first run downstream. Several minutes later when I had landed andadmiredthe fish before releasing it, all I could think of was how the old roddeservedsuch a fitting return to its former glory when my Mom had last fishedwith itsome thirty years before. A great experience, and one that I'll neverforget! ------------------Original text Jerry Foster wrote: Speaking of tapers A new guy on the list Don DeLoach happens to have a beautiful 8' 6" E CPowell. I think you guys should coerse him into poping with the taper. I'll help, Don. I had a chance to cast it, talk about smooth JerryIs it an E.C. or a Tony Maslan powell. The hookkeeper is the tipoff. Also Hollowbuilt or solid?jz --BeyondBoundary_2_Mon_Mar_03_14:48:00_1997__4823 Part 1.2 Name: ATTRIBS.BNDType: unspecified type (application/octet- stream)Encoding: x-uuencode --BeyondBoundary_2_Mon_Mar_03_14:48:00_1997__4823-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Mar 3 15:32:43 1997 17:31:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Rebuilding II Just as I suspected. I taped the guides on my experiment yesterday morning, before going tothe Frank Sargent sporting show, in Tampa. (I was tying for my club.) The rod worked well to about 45 feet. After that performance fell offrapidly. I believe the reason is that I removed far too much of the outerpower fibers. I think that while I'm casting with the tip section ofthe rod, everything's fine, but when I start putting enough power inmy cast to get the butt section there isn't enough there to "stand up"to the cast. This has led me to rethink my approach. I'm now thinking aboutthe FLEX of the rod, rather then it's taper. The way I see it right now flex is what gives a rod it'spersonality. A fast rod has less flex in the butt then a slower rod.I believe flex in a rod has two major components: I'll call the first"elasticity," the ability to bend from the rod's axis, and what I'llcall "snap," the speed and force with which the rod returns to is'taxis. Each quality brings something important to a rod. A rod that istoo stiff could break while fighting fish, (or even casting, if it wastoo ridged and too frail.) It evens out the power applied to ourcast. It can even add power from the double hall.Snap is what allows us to get the line out where we want it. Itactually transfers the energy stored in the bent rod to the fly line. The rod that I'm toying with now lacks the second quality in it'sbutt section. So for my next project, I'd like to approach the modification ofthe taper from this angle. The problem is, I don't know where tostart. I guess that if I were to bend enough bamboo fly rods, I'deventually get a "Feel" for what I wanted. I don't know enough peoplewho own bamboo fly rods that would allow me the opportunity ofdeveloping that feel. Any suggestions? p.s. I was bumped from the list for about 48 hours this weekend. If Idon't respond to a post, please try me direct.... Thanks Terry Kirkpatrick Safety Harbor, Fl. sats@gte.net The softness in the butt section could be caused by not having a finishunder the grip. Cork is only moisture proof when highly compressed as in abottle cork or a gasket.Terry Ackland from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Mar 3 15:50:31 1997 Subject: A New 6' 3" I've been polishing some of the tapers lately and have a new base curve tip - .07005 - .07910 - .09515 - .11720 - .13425 - .14430 - .15935 - .18240 - .19445 - .20350 - .21655 - .22760 - .23765 - .24770 - .25375 - .253 Now if you run this through a 'hexy' program and compare it to the curve ofthe 7' 6" - the curve for this rod should be just a foreshortened version. Wayne from JCZIMNY@dol.net Mon Mar 3 16:31:08 1997 Subject: Re: Guide Wraps? Don Andersen wrote: Never use epoxy. regards, Don Hi Don,Pray tell. Why did you write "never use epoxy"??John from sats@gte.net Mon Mar 3 17:21:42 1997 ; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 17:21:35 -0600 Subject: Re: Rebuilding II On Mon, 3 Mar 1997 17:31:33 -0500, you wrote: The softness in the butt section could be caused by not having a finishunder the grip. Cork is only moisture proof when highly compressed as inabottle cork or a gasket.Terry Ackland I guess I wasn't clear in what I'm trying to do. I apologize. I had a 7 1/2ft butt section from an old rod. I scrounged a 7 1/2ft. tip section from another rod. My goal was to mate the twopiece into a 6 1/2 rod by removing 6in from each piece. That's the easy part, of course. (I've never been known to do thingsthe easy way....!) The hard part is getting the two to join without ahellofa' change in the taper at the ferrule. (I think there was morethen 1/32nd difference between the end of the tip section and thestart of the butt section. My solution was to shave the outside of the rod, one flat at a time,until I got the two to match. The problem is, (As you know) when you remove material from theOutside of a rod, you're removing the so-called "Power fibers" thething that puts a SNAP in a fly rod. I think I removed too much material around the ferrule of the buttsection. When I put enough pressure on the rod getting down into thetop of the butt section, it loses additional snap. Because I'm working from the outside, rather then the inside, computermodels won't do me much good. (I based my taper on a modification ofseveral rods that I checked with "HEXROD") If I had some Idea of theamount of usable outer fibers, I might be able to come up with amodification to the programs, but because each rod is different, Idon't. My solution is to check the "Flex" of the rod, removing just enoughmaterial from each section to have a smooth action and leaving enoughto keep the Snap. I AM learning a lot about Bamboo. The rod's fine as long as I don't go beyond it's capability. Terry Kirkpatrick Safety Harbor, Fl.sats@gte.net from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Mon Mar 3 18:40:46 1997 Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:40:37 +0800 (WST) Subject: RE: Varnish On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I use a spar varnish made by Carver Tripp. It is titled marine super spar varnish and comes in a high gloss finish, which I prefer. I have also used Man- O-War high gloss and matte finish spar varnish. I didn't care for the matte finish and had some trouble with shiny streaks. I use a dip tube to apply the final coat of varnish over the guides, wraps and blank. No it doesn't create drips at the guides, and no it doesn't leave an ugly film on the guides. preservers, as well as flex coat and more recently Parks laquer. The laquer I used darkens the thread(Which is fine in most cases andoriginal). I have found the best true color retention, (if that is your goal) with the alcohol based Gudebrod. I apply two 50% thinned coats of theGudebrod, followed by five coats of flex coat. I like the flex coats ease of use and it will fill gaps nicely (if you like that look, I do). If your using 3/0 thread then the build is not that drastic even with seven total coats of preserver. Following color preservation I brush a coat of spar varnish onto thewraps to check for a good seal. If the wraps are not completely sealed you will soon see a dark patch developing at a weak spot on the wrap, and willneed to start over on that wrap(if the darkness bothers you). Once all thewraps are sealed and tested with the spar varnish I dip the entire section intoa tube of spar varnish. Dipping over the guides gives you a seamless, hopefully flawless appearance. I'm still experimenting with color preserver combinations. Others may reach their desired goals with an easier method. Hope this helps. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu What you've described is exactly what I've found works except I only use Flex Coat, and I reserve a brush to use only with the Flex Coat so there is no possibility of contamination between liquids. The varnish I've used is Epiglass Goldspar. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Mar 3 18:42:09 1997 Subject: Sherline Lathes I have a question about the Lathes from Sherline. What would be one of those lathes? One bed was 7" between centers. What exactly does that mean. I really have no idea what to look into or what would work. Jon from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Mon Mar 3 20:06:28 1997 mail.pilot.net with ESMTP id SAA25532 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA274731646; Mon, 3 Mar 1997 18:14:06- 0800 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 0000734C; Mon, 3 Mar 9718:10:24 -0800 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon, First, everything you ever wanted to know about centers: The "Between Centers" dimension refers to the horizontal distance between theheadstock center and the tailstock center on a metal lathe. A center on a metal lathe is analogous to spur centers on a wood lathe. Centers are used to hold shafts. The headstock center goes where you would normally see a 3 or 4jaw chuck. Most lathe manufacturers state the individual size of the center in terms of a standard "Morse Taper" or MT. I think the Sherline uses a MT-1 could be wrong. The back of each center is tapered and is fit into the headstock and tailstock spindles. Much of what is written about building handles involves gluing and turning the handle on the rod blank. One way to get by with a small lathe is to use an arbor. An arbor is simply a shaft that can be mounted between the lathe centers. Glue the handle up on the arbor just as you would on a rod shaft. The only difference is that a release agent is used on the arbor so you can slip the handle off when finished. That's how ready to assemble handlesare made. The release agent depends on the type of glue used. You would probably be able to make a 7" handle on the Sherline providedyou held the headstock end of the arbor with the chuck instead of a center. That way the arbor could extend through the hole through the headstock. Some bare shaft is helpful as a place to hang on to when pushing thehandle off the arbor. Also, I belive Sherline has just come out with a longer bed version of their 4000 series lathe. I think it is 24" between centers, but once again this is from memory... ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Sherline LathesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet I have a question about the Lathes from Sherline. What would be one of those lathes? One bed was 7" between centers. What exactly does that mean. I really have no idea what to look into or what would work. Jon from dryfly@erols.com Mon Mar 3 21:23:25 1997 Subject: Half Culm Rod I am getting ready to start planing my first rod and I know a rod shouldbe made from a full 12ft culm, tips from top half and butts from bottomhalf. However, I have been given a half culm (6ft, top half)to use as asacrifical culm. Rather than just experimenting only, I thought I wouldtry to build a 6'0" #3 or #4 rod from the half culm. What problems arethere are to making all the sections from the same 6ft culm? Bob from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Mar 3 21:25:44 1997 ; Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Thanks a lot...I think i have learned a little more and I will save themessage for the future. Is a lathe like that suitable for turningreel seat parts and ferrules?Also, the way I have seen people turn ferrule stations is by putting the rod through the (headstock or 3 jaw chuck?). Is that possible with one of those lathes? not necessarily the Sherline, but a metal working lathe. Jon On 3 Mar 97 at 17:42, Lloyd Cross wrote: Jon, First, everything you ever wanted to know about centers: The "Between Centers" dimension refers to the horizontal distance between theheadstock center and the tailstock center on a metal lathe. A center on a metallathe is analogous to spur centers on a wood lathe. Centers are used to hold shafts. The headstock center goes where you would normally see a 3 or 4jaw chuck. Most lathe manufacturers state the individual size of the centerin terms of a standard "Morse Taper" or MT. I think the Sherline uses a MT-1 could be wrong. The back of each center is tapered and is fit into the headstock and tailstock spindles. Much of what is written about building handles involves gluing andturning the handle on the rod blank. One way to get by with a small lathe is touse an arbor. An arbor is simply a shaft that can be mounted between thelathe centers. Glue the handle up on the arbor just as you would on a rod shaft. The only difference is that a release agent is used on the arbor so youcan slip the handle off when finished. That's how ready to assemble handlesare made. The release agent depends on the type of glue used. You would probably be able to make a 7" handle on the Sherline providedyou held the headstock end of the arbor with the chuck instead of a center. That way the arbor could extend through the hole through the headstock. Some bare shaft is helpful as a place to hang on to when pushing thehandle off the arbor. Also, I belive Sherline has just come out with a longer bed version of their 4000 series lathe. I think it is 24" between centers, but once again this is from memory... ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Sherline LathesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at InternetDate: 3/3/97 07:25 PM I have a question about the Lathes from Sherline. What would be one of those lathes? One bed was 7" between centers. What exactly does that mean. I really have no idea what to look into or what would work. Jon from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Mar 3 21:57:30 1997 Subject: Re: Half Culm Rod Bob,It depends on the depth of power fibers in the culm. Some top half culmsare better than some bottom halves on different culms-if it's any good youshould be all right. Measure the depth of the usable power fibers and ifthey'r equal to or greater than 1/2 the largest butt measurement betweentheflats you'r all right.Hank Woolman. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Mon Mar 3 22:41:00 1997 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon Lintvet wrote: I have a question about the Lathes from Sherline. What would be one of those lathes? One bed was 7" between centers. What exactlydoes that mean. I really have no idea what to look into or whatwould work. JonDear Jon,I means that you can fit a piece no more than 7" long between centers on the lath. If you're turning between a chuck and a tailstock center, this distance could be somewhat less.John from GLohkamp@aol.com Mon Mar 3 23:23:08 1997 Subject: Re: Half Culm Rod Bob remember you need to space your nodes l would build a three peice rod .Garrison used 8ft culms but he needed to splice strips to bring them tolength .. go for it have some fun it's just a fishing rod . Gary from impalass@litenet.net Mon Mar 3 23:23:23 1997 litenet.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA31559 for; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 00:23:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Varnish CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I use a spar varnish made by Carver Tripp. It is titled marine super sparvarnish and comes in a high gloss finish, which I prefer. I have also usedMan-O-War high gloss and matte finish spar varnish. I didn't care for thematte finish and had some trouble with shiny streaks. I use a dip tube toapply the final coat of varnish over the guides, wraps and blank. No itdoesn't create drips at the guides, and no it doesn't leave an ugly film onthe guides. preservers, as well as flex coat and more recently Parks laquer. Thelaquer I used darkens the thread(Which is fine in most cases andoriginal).I have found the best true color retention, (if that is your goal) withthe alcohol based Gudebrod. I apply two 50% thinned coats of theGudebrod,followed by five coats of flex coat. I like the flex coats ease of use andit will fill gaps nicely (if you like that look, I do). If your using 3/0thread then the build is not that drastic even with seven total coats ofpreserver. Following color preservation I brush a coat of spar varnish onto thewrapsto check for a good seal. If the wraps are not completely sealed you willsoon see a dark patch developing at a weak spot on the wrap, and willneedto start over on that wrap(if the darkness bothers you). Once all thewrapsare sealed and tested with the spar varnish I dip the entire section intoatube of spar varnish. Dipping over the guides gives you a seamless,hopefully flawless appearance. I'm still experimenting with color preserver combinations. Others mayreach their desired goals with an easier method. Hope this helps. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.eduTry wetting the threads with water after using color preserver andbefore final finish. If there are any spots that have not been fullycovered with color preserver they will show up as a dark spot. When thewater dries up the color will return to normal. If dark spots show upyou know you need another coat of color preserver, if not apply yourfinish. This prevents flaws showing up when finished and its too late.Rich Uffert from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Tue Mar 4 02:31:12 1997 Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:31:02 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Varnish On Tue, 4 Mar 1997, Rich Uffert wrote: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I use a spar varnish made by Carver Tripp. It is titled marine supersparvarnish and comes in a high gloss finish, which I prefer. I have alsousedMan-O-War high gloss and matte finish spar varnish. I didn't care forthematte finish and had some trouble with shiny streaks. I use a dip tubetoapply the final coat of varnish over the guides, wraps and blank. No itdoesn't create drips at the guides, and no it doesn't leave an ugly filmonthe guides. preservers, as well as flex coat and more recently Parks laquer. Thelaquer I used darkens the thread(Which is fine in most cases andoriginal).I have found the best true color retention, (if that is your goal) withthe alcohol based Gudebrod. I apply two 50% thinned coats of theGudebrod,followed by five coats of flex coat. I like the flex coats ease of useandit will fill gaps nicely (if you like that look, I do). If your using 3/0thread then the build is not that drastic even with seven total coats ofpreserver. Following color preservation I brush a coat of spar varnish onto thewrapsto check for a good seal. If the wraps are not completely sealed youwillsoon see a dark patch developing at a weak spot on the wrap, and willneedto start over on that wrap(if the darkness bothers you). Once all thewrapsare sealed and tested with the spar varnish I dip the entire section intoatube of spar varnish. Dipping over the guides gives you a seamless,hopefully flawless appearance. I'm still experimenting with color preserver combinations. Others mayreach their desired goals with an easier method. Hope this helps. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.eduTry wetting the threads with water after using color preserver andbefore final finish. If there are any spots that have not been fullycovered with color preserver they will show up as a dark spot. When thewater dries up the color will return to normal. If dark spots show upyou know you need another coat of color preserver, if not apply yourfinish. This prevents flaws showing up when finished and its too late.Rich Uffert That's good advise. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Tue Mar 4 02:40:07 1997 Tue, 4 Mar 1997 16:39:53 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes I own the metric model of the 4000 (4100) with which I turn ferrules from NS rod stock and make screw type reel seats. If I were to buy another lathe, it'd be another Sherline (if I were in the market for another lathe of this size). Reason I say that is that they are very well made and all the parts are interchangeable with older models. Sherline *say* any future models will remain interchangeablewith earlier models. Also they're made in the US. I'm an Aussie and even I think that counts for something.When I turn handles or mount ferrules, I remove the tailstock and work on the handle/ferrule not within the bed section as per usual, but have the handle/ferrule on the left hand side of the headstock. If the tailstock is removed the rod fits and you don't need to fit the handle through the jaws.This adds about 50 seconds to the job and works well.I have a link to Sherline in my home page, as well as my (not ver Tony. On Mon, 3 Mar 1997, Jon Lintvet wrote: Thanks a lot...I think i have learned a little more and I will save themessage for the future. Is a lathe like that suitable for turningreel seat parts and ferrules?Also, the way I have seen people turn ferrule stations is by putting the rod through the (headstock or 3 jaw chuck?). Is that possible with one of those lathes? not necessarily the Sherline, but a metal working lathe. Jon On 3 Mar 97 at 17:42, Lloyd Cross wrote: Jon, First, everything you ever wanted to know about centers: The "Between Centers" dimension refers to the horizontal distance between theheadstock center and the tailstock center on a metal lathe. A center on a metallathe is analogous to spur centers on a wood lathe. Centers are used to hold shafts. The headstock center goes where you would normally see a 3 or4 jaw chuck. Most lathe manufacturers state the individual size of the centerin terms of a standard "Morse Taper" or MT. I think the Sherline uses aMT-1 I could be wrong. The back of each center is tapered and is fit into the headstock and tailstock spindles. Much of what is written about building handles involves gluing andturning the handle on the rod blank. One way to get by with a small lathe is touse an arbor. An arbor is simply a shaft that can be mounted between thelathe centers. Glue the handle up on the arbor just as you would on a rodshaft. The only difference is that a release agent is used on the arbor so youcan slip the handle off when finished. That's how ready to assemble handlesare made. The release agent depends on the type of glue used. You would probably be able to make a 7" handle on the Sherline providedyou held the headstock end of the arbor with the chuck instead of a center. That way the arbor could extend through the hole through theheadstock. Some bare shaft is helpful as a place to hang on to when pushing thehandle off the arbor. Also, I belive Sherline has just come out with a longer bed version of their 4000 series lathe. I think it is 24" between centers, but onceagain this is from memory... ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Sherline LathesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at InternetDate: 3/3/97 07:25 PM I have a question about the Lathes from Sherline. What would be one of those lathes? One bed was 7" between centers. What exactly does that mean. I really have no idea what to look into or what would work. Jon /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Tue Mar 4 08:56:11 1997 mail.atl.bellsouth.net (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA17391 for Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Hi Folks, The Sherline Web pages also include lots of good info on how to setup anduse the lathe and mill. You won't find any info on using the lathe to turnferrule stations or cork handles but there is lots of good info on standardmetal cutting practices. There's also a picture of a nine cylinder gasengine that was made on a Sherline lathe. Later,Johnny At 04:39 PM 3/4/97 +0800, Tony wrote:I own the metric model of the 4000 (4100) with which I turn ferrules from NS rod stock and make screw type reel seats. If I were to buy another lathe, it'd be another Sherline (if I were in the market for another lathe of this size). Reason I say that is that they are very well made and all the parts are interchangeable with older models. Sherline *say* any future models will remain interchangeablewith earlier models. Also they're made in the US. I'm an Aussie and even I think that counts for something.When I turn handles or mount ferrules, I remove the tailstock and work on the handle/ferrule not within the bed section as per usual, but have the handle/ferrule on the left hand side of the headstock. If the tailstock is removed the rod fits and you don't need to fit the handle through the jaws.This adds about 50 seconds to the job and works well.I have a link to Sherline in my home page, as well as my (not ver Tony. -------------------John JohnsonLilburn, GA from wfmack@evansville.net Tue Mar 4 09:14:15 1997 via sendmail with smtp (Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #21 built 1997-Feb-28) Subject: heat guns I am starting to look at heat guns. Surprisingly few catalogs seem to mention them. Found a Bosch in Tool Crib of the North. Do any of you have preferences for brand, temperature, air flow, accessory tips you might care to suggest? Many thanks. By the way, have drilled, tapped, and almost flattened my planing form. The previous one I did suffered from poor drilling technique and didn't remian level as it opened. Once I get this one flat I'll see how much better I did-so far looks pretty good. Skipped the shoulder bolts and drilled out the near side bar (where the shoulder would be) to clear the threads. Used 1 1/2 steel dowels on each side of the pull and pull holes. Would be glad to go into more detail on the trials and tribulations on each for anyone starting one--but since I don't have a finished product tested yet, so listener beware! Bill Mack from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Mar 4 09:47:20 1997 Subject: Re: Guide Wraps? At 17:15 03/03/97 -0500, you wrote:Don Andersen wrote: Never use epoxy. regards, Don John, Well, I never use epoxy on wraps - other things yes - wraps - no. And Ireally don't want to tell you what I think it looks like on canes - do useit on graphites - appropriate there - plastic rod deserves a plastic finish- I know - I know - give me a hard time for using varathane on canes -Well, I ain't pure - just opinionated. Good hearing from you - Are you getting any notes from John B.? regards, Don Hi Don,Pray tell. Why did you write "never use epoxy"??John from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Tue Mar 4 10:33:59 1997 2.0/2.12um) id IAA000.44; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 08:20:43 -0500 Subject: Re: heat guns Hi Bill: Re heat guns I seem to recall a post recently about the Steinel line of heatguns. Because I'm also looking for one I found they have a web page (http://www.thomasregister.com:8000/olc/steinelamerica/) that youshould check out next time you surf the web. The author of the post (Chris Bogart, I think)spoke quite highly of their product and I believe he said he owned one. Steinelalso has a toll-free number you can call to determine the distributor closest toyou. The number id 1-800-910-7673. Hope this helps. Regards, Rich Brown from sats@gte.net Tue Mar 4 10:47:53 1997 ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 10:47:48 -0600 Subject: Re: Half Culm Rod It depends on the depth of power fibers in the culm...Measure the depth of the usable power fibers and ifthey'r equal to or greater than 1/2 the largest butt measurement betweentheflats you'r all right.Hank Woolman.Hank, Wayne, My understanding is that the power fibers don't just stop, but thinout at a more or less even rate as we move toward the inside of theculm? How do you know where the usable power fibers end. 1/2 the largest butt measurement would mean that each piece of the rodis made of 100% power fibers? 1/2 the butt section would be thethickness of one of the six sections. Is this correct? Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.sats@gte.net from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Mar 4 13:16:19 1997 Subject: Re: Half Culm Rod To confirm the use of the 1/2 culm to this - block sand the cut endsuntil you can clearly see the power fibers - looking closely you will see apoint where the fibers are no longer touching each other the fiber layerwill have a distinct white(pith) ring around the fibers. mark this depth andmeasure it with a caliper using the depth feature. with these dimensionscompare them with the 1/2 dimensions of the rod that you intend to makefromthe culm. if the power fiber depth is equal or greater - fine. If the powerfiber depth is less the rod will be weaker than anticipated but by anunknowndegree. If at all posible make sure that the power fiber is always greaterthan 1/2 ff the butt dimension of the rod. Wayne from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Mar 4 15:41:21 1997 Subject: Re: Guide Wraps? Hi Don.I haven't heard from John B. Posted him a message a week ago.John from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Mar 4 16:09:51 1997 Subject: Re: Guide Wraps? At 16:30 04/03/97 -0500, you wrote:Hi Don.I haven't heard from John B. Posted him a message a week ago.John He's being having some teething problems with his machine/applications. got message from him this PM. He's alive!!!! Going out to see my daughter in Vancouver in late March - will see JohnandJoy then. Don from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Mar 4 17:09:14 1997 Subject: Re: Half Culm Rod Terry,Yes, I try to use all power fibers if I can. As far as knowing where theusable fibers end I try to not have very much light colored spaces betweenthe dark bundles-less than a 1/4th.Hope this helps-most of the above is subjective and comes fromexperience-some of it bad :-)Hank. from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Mar 4 18:19:59 1997 TAA04099 for ; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 19:19:47 - Subject: Reelseats To the list,Having never tried uplocking reelseats, am I missing something? Most ofmy rods are light in weight (hopefully), with a Garrison type butt cap anda sliding ring, or two lightweight sliding rings, using a cork insert. Thesetypes seem to hold reels quite well. Many exotic wood inserts areavailable.Is there any advantage to them other than cosmetics? Many of my rods areexperimental models where cosmetics don't count much. Even wine corkswork from rbrown@infocom.net Tue Mar 4 20:23:40 1997 login1.infocom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA27124 for; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 20:25:36 -0600 Subject: Help I am having trouble with my subscription to rodbuilders bulletin board.I guess I need to re-subscribe but I can't find the starting point. Please help me to find it. Thanks Rob Brown from jfoster@gte.net Tue Mar 4 21:18:23 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id VAA06344 for; Tue, 4 Mar 1997 21:18:19 -0600 Subject: archives All The listproc archives for feb are now up to date..thanks MikeMike, I read a thing on your listproc and was led to believe there's anoption the admin can set to store abbreviated x400 addresses.. surewould make things cleaner.. check out Chris Bogart and John Zimny's web sites under rodmakers.. Wayne's grayrock III poster icon now links you to The Fly Factory website in grayling.. I understand they will be posting info on GRAYROCK III I also added their link on the links page.. Might be posting the final intermediate version of hexrod for excellater tonight.. need testers, along with Chris..( thanks chris) Jerry from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Mar 4 21:20:49 1997 Subject: Re: Guide Wraps? Don Andersen wrote: At 16:30 04/03/97 -0500, you wrote:Hi Don.I haven't heard from John B. Posted him a message a week ago.John He's being having some teething problems with his machine/applications. got message from him this PM. He's alive!!!! Going out to see my daughter in Vancouver in late March - will see JohnandJoy then. DonPlease give them my greetings.John from gqla14@udcf.gla.ac.uk Wed Mar 5 08:55:39 1997 [130.209.135.199] sender gqla14) by lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk (8.8.5/UK- 2.2a/cent-sparc) with SMTP id OAA22166 for; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 14:54:54 GMT Subject: 60 degree lathe tool/Shoulder bolts I have been trying to obtain a 60 degree lathe tool but my tool store doesn't know what this is. I saw in the archives that it is actually a thread cutting tool for a metal lathe but even this description drew a blank, can anyone help with the correct name for this tool.I have obtained shoulder bolts for my forms, but although I asked for bolts with a 1 inch shoulder when I got home and measured them I found the shoulder to be 1 and 3/8ths inches. Will these be ok for forms made from 3/4 inch as described by Bruce Connor, should I make my forms from thicker wood or should I replace them with 1 inch bolts, assuming these are available at the same tool store.Thanks in advance.John KennedyResearch TechnicianDept of SurgeryWestern InfirmaryGlasgow from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Wed Mar 5 09:14:06 1997 Wed, 5 Mar 1997 23:13:55 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: 60 degree lathe tool/Shoulder bolts John,sounds like you're doing your shopping at the local hardware store.Try an industrial tooling /engineers outlet. You might find 58 deg cutting tools are more or less standard in the UK, but you will be able to get 60 deg if you specify it. Tony I have been trying to obtain a 60 degree lathe tool but my tool store doesn't know what this is. I saw in the archives that it is actually a thread cutting tool for a metal lathe but even this description drew a blank, can anyone help with the correct name for this tool.I have obtained shoulder bolts for my forms, but although I asked for bolts with a 1 inch shoulder when I got home and measured them I found the shoulder to be 1 and 3/8ths inches. Will these be ok for forms made from 3/4 inch as described by Bruce Connor, should I make my forms from thicker wood or should I replace them with 1 inch bolts, assuming these are available at the same tool store.Thanks in advance.John KennedyResearch TechnicianDept of SurgeryWestern InfirmaryGlasgow /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Wed Mar 5 09:23:31 1997 IAA29643; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 08:23:07 -0700 Subject: Re: Reelseats To the list,Having never tried uplocking reelseats, am I missing something? Mostofmy rods are light in weight (hopefully), with a Garrison type butt cap anda sliding ring, or two lightweight sliding rings, using a cork insert. Thesetypes seem to hold reels quite well. Many exotic wood inserts areavailable.Is there any advantage to them other than cosmetics? Many of my rodsareexperimental models where cosmetics don't count much. Even wine corkswork Bill, One of the main benifits of an uplocking reel seat is that it gets theweight of the reel closer to your hand. Try making a cast with your handup the rod about 1-2 feet and you will feel the momentem of the reel whenyou try to check your cast. The closer you can get the reel to your handthe less the weight of the reel will effect your cast. For a betterexplanation see Gary Borgers new book Presentation. As far as wood inserts I believe they are mainly cosmetic. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 5 09:59:11 1997 Subject: Re: Reelseats Bill,Im(not so)ho the uplocking reel seat has the rod butt sticking out so thatwhen I cast the line sometimes wraps around it when shooting line- Ipreferdownlocking. If your rods are lightweight and your cap and ring do the jobstay with it . If you can find a supply of special woods it should be asimple matter to make your own cap and ring reel seats(buying thehardware,of course).Good luck.Hank. from johnnatk@juno.com Wed Mar 5 12:33:52 1997 Subject: Nodeless Splicing I have question for those of you building nodeless. What type of slpicedo you use. Are you using a compound splice as described in Garrison onpgs. 42-46 or is everyone using a "standard" splice? Does it make muchdifference? Thanks from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Wed Mar 5 12:51:39 1997 2.0/2.12um) id KAA000.44; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 10:39:04 -0500 Subject: Re: 60 degree lathe tool/Shoulder bolts John: Tony is correct. If your trying to find the 60 degree threading tool at ahardware store you're probably in for a long search. In the U.S., these tools arecommonly known as lathe tool bits and the cutting surface is most often made ofcarbide to prolong sharpness and long life when machining abrasive and toughmaterials, i.e., cast iron. They are produced by brazing a carbide chip to the surface of ashort piece of square steel bar stock. The carbide chip is also available indifferent shapes for different applications. An industrial supplier specializing in machine tools and supplies is yourbest bet. Failing that, a machine shop may be willing to sell you one from theirstock. But check the included angle of the tool bit. A thread gage is the tool to use purpose. If it is 58 degrees, ask the machinist to dress the tool to a 60degree included angle for you. You could also buy a high speed steel tool bit and have it sharpened to a 60degree included angle. These bits are normally not pre-formed, leaving it up tothe user to grind his (or her) own cutting profile. Any machine shop could do this Regards, Rich Brown from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Wed Mar 5 13:00:47 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: 60 degree lathe tool/Shoulder bolts John, I have mail order sources for the 60 degree lathe tool and theshoulder bolts. I'll look them up tonight and post the info tomorrow. Bob Matarazzo from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed Mar 5 14:55:39 1997 with ESMTP id OAA14295 for ; Wed, 5 Mar1997 14:55:06 -0600 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA23762 for (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.8.3) with SMTP id XQUECRBF; Wed, 5 Mar 199714:54:44 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: Alden Co. phone number All: What's the phone# for Alden Co. I can't find which folder I put it in*1 Thanks, Don from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Mar 5 15:09:08 1997 (8.8.5/8.7.5) with ESMTP id QAA10311 for ; 17:10:13 -0400 (AST) Subject: Re: Leonard taper Mark, I have a 38 (H?) 7' 4wt that I could mic for you, as far as the varnishgoes, I would guess at 3 thou which you would divide the mic measures X 2and subtract 1.5 for final dimension. Beware, I am not an expert,Comments?Also this rod is pretty slow as so many of them are. JB At 19:44 02/03/97 -0500, you wrote:Two questions (actually one question and one request): When micing a rod, how much should one deduct for varnish? I suspectitshould vary with kind of finish etc, but is there some typicalcalculation? It's a 6' with a 11/64 ferrule.[The larger story here is that I miced one, but don't have muchconfidencein the numbers: and the measurements around the ferrule and grip are, ofcourse, estimates.] I would be quite grateful if someone could send memorereliable dimensions. --Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Mar 5 15:19:40 1997 Subject: NS Blackening (revisited) We had a thread a few weeks ago on this topic, describing the Payne typesolution for blackening NS. The stuff works great, and if you need to matchaPayne or Garrison greenish black, you have no choice. But the stuff isnasty,corrosive and potentially dangerous. Here is another method using KodakRapidFixer( cat. # 146 4106). It should cost about 10 dollars for the one gallonsize at a well stocked photography store.You will get one large bottle of fixer, marked solution A, and a smallbottleof hardener, marked solution B. Place small ammounts of both solutions inseparate containers.The NS pieces must be oxide and grease free. I usually spin them with adrill, and polish them with 0000 steel wool. Don't touch them with yourfingers afterward. Mask off any areas you don't want to blacken and dip insolution A. With the high copper alloys of NS this may be enough. If youdon't get a color change, dip in solution B. Rinse thoroughly with water anddry and lightly polish with a soft cloth. If you did not get completecoverage repeat the process, but never dip from solution B to A withoutrinsing or you will "kill" solution A. Solution B will develop a milkyprecipitate, but will continue to work.The result is a blackish blue color, sometimes with bronze overtones, thatisvery attractive. This is not a durable coating, and should be protected withvarnish or lacquer ASAP.- --Tom Smithwick from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Mar 5 16:07:34 1997 Subject: NS blackening In my earlier post, I should have mentioned that while the solutionsinvolvedare relatively benign, they are still acids, and all the usual precautionsshould be taken. from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Mar 5 17:19:08 1997 ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:21:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Rebuilding II Terry IF the tip was smaller than the butt at the ferrule -I would have left well enough alone - You would of havea famous Millward step-down taper design. Having bothequal at the ferrule is not always good. Depends on theaction you wanted. You may have been surprised athow good some of these mismatches turn out - just askReed Curry - he put one together that can roll cast 100+ feet - impressive. Chris from cbogart@ibm.net Wed Mar 5 17:33:56 1997 ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 18:35:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodeless Splicing John Use a regular splice block - a compound splice block is used forrepairing rods - see the info on the rodmakers homepage. Chris from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Wed Mar 5 19:20:48 1997 #19314) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Alden's Number The John Alden Co. number is (800)-249-8665. Ordered the stanley plane on a Thursday received it the next Tuesday. from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Mar 5 19:26:05 1997 (8.8.5/8.7.5) with ESMTP id UAA04098 for ; 16:50:47 -0400 (AST) Subject: Re: Leonard taper Mark, I have a 38 (h?) 7' 4wt that I could mic for you, as far as the varnishgoes, I would guess at 3 thou which you would divide X 2 and subtract 1.5 rod ispretty slow as so many of them are. JB At 19:44 02/03/97 -0500, you wrote:Two questions (actually one question and one request): When micing a rod, how much should one deduct for varnish? I suspectitshould vary with kind of finish etc, but is there some typicalcalculation? It's a 6' with a 11/64 ferrule.[The larger story here is that I miced one, but don't have muchconfidencein the numbers: and the measurements around the ferrule and grip are, ofcourse, estimates.] I would be quite grateful if someone could send memorereliable dimensions. --Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from sats@gte.net Wed Mar 5 20:15:43 1997 ; Wed, 5 Mar 1997 20:15:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Rebuilding II IF the tip was smaller than the butt at the ferrule -I would have left well enough alone - You would of havea famous Millward step-down taper design. Having bothequal at the ferrule is not always good. Depends on theaction you wanted. You may have been surprised athow good some of these mismatches turn out - just askReed Curry - he put one together that can roll cast 100+ feet - impressive. Chris, That's how I started out. (actually took about .005 off the buttsection but really didn't change anything.) It cast great... after you got the line out to 50ft. The first fiftyfeet were terrible. Like casting a straw stuck in a broomstick. Terry Kirkpatrick Safety Harbor, Fl.sats@gte.net from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Wed Mar 5 21:20:42 1997 Thu, 6 Mar 1997 11:20:26 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Nodeless Splicing On Wed, 5 Mar 1997, John R Natkevicius wrote: I have question for those of you building nodeless. What type of slpicedo you use. Are you using a compound splice as described in Garrison onpgs. 42-46 or is everyone using a "standard" splice? Does it make muchdifference? Thanks Just use the simple standard scarf. I use a 1:20 scarf and UF glue.Also, try getting the two pieces closely matched in diamension otherwise you'll wind up with one half of the scarf longer than the other and it wont be such a good joint. Clamp using spring clamps. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Mar 5 21:38:44 1997 23:36:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Rebuilding II Terry IF the tip was smaller than the butt at the ferrule -I would have left well enough alone - You would of havea famous Millward step-down taper design. Having bothequal at the ferrule is not always good. Depends on theaction you wanted. You may have been surprised athow good some of these mismatches turn out - just askReed Curry - he put one together that can roll cast 100+ feet - impressive. ChrisI have a British rod that has been built up at the ferrule with 6 splintsof bamboo just around the section that fits into the male.I would not plane off the dense outside fibers of a rod section to make ausable rod and I certainly would not try a 100 ft+ roll cast with it.The so called power fibers of bamboo are very shallow, take a look at thephotomicrogram of a rod section on my web page and you will get an idea.Thesection is .2 across flats!I personally do not use any of these expensive scraper planes, I justscrapethe powdery coating off and stop before any grain becomes visible.I build rods differently to the book and to most people on this site, sowhat I do might not work for you.Terry from DANNUGENT@aol.com Wed Mar 5 22:34:42 1997 Subject: Re: 60 degree lathe tool/Shoulder bolts the tool you are looking for is called a center gage.Ask for a starett center gage. DAN from KDLoup@aol.com Wed Mar 5 22:54:53 1997 Subject: Re: 60 degree lathe tool/Shoulder bolts John, Enco Manufacturing 1(800)873-3626 list a 60 degree "V" threadinginsert in their catalog on page 269 for $4.95-9.50. I suspect thatSherline's web page, under accessories, would also sell this tool - seeRodmaker's page for URL. Kurt from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Thu Mar 6 08:14:27 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: 60 degree lathe tool/Shoulder bolts John,A 60-degree lathe tool is available from: Blue Ridge Machinery & ToolsP.O. Box 536Hurricane, WV 25526-0536Tel: (800) 872-6500 The part number is E-8 370 and costs $3.84 Shoulder bolts and set screws are available from: ENCO Manufacturing5000 W. BloomingdaleChicago, IL 60639Tel: (800) 860- 3400 The shoulder bolts have 1" x 3/8" body - 5/16-18 ThreadCost: $11.75 for box of 25 (Order # 434-0021)I used these with good results. The set screws are 3/4" long - 1/4-20 ThreadCost: $5.75 for box of 100 (Order # 431-0103) They also have other things like dial indicators and center gauges. Bothcompanies put out a catalog. Good luck!Bob Matarazzo from gqla14@udcf.gla.ac.uk Thu Mar 6 09:08:06 1997 [130.209.135.199] sender gqla14) by lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk (8.8.5/UK- 2.2a/cent-sparc) with SMTP id PAA08584 for; Thu, 6 Mar 1997 15:04:47 GMT Subject: Update: 60 degree lathe tool/Shoulder bolts Thanks for the advice on the lathe tool. I was shopping at an industrial outlet. I went back today and eventually got the correct shoulder bolts and set screws. It turned out the screws I got yesterday were a different thread from the bolts. I then went back to the tool department with the latest info on the lathe tool, they still didn't know what I wanted until the manager was sent for. He eventually produced a tool with a 60 degree point. This tool was aprox 5 inches long and 5/8ths square, the point was off set and measured 3/8ths at its widest.The apex of the point was the full thickness of the tool(5/8ths) I had imagined it to be much thinner, it was also higher at one end than the other.Is this the correct tool, is the 3/8ths point large enough? It costs 7pounds UK for this the smallest tool of its type they stocked, which is considerably more than the cost in the USA but it is probably easier to buy here than import. Thanks again.John KennedyResearch TechnicianDept of SurgeryWestern InfirmaryGlasgow from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu Mar 6 11:10:02 1997 Subject: Polishing Wraps Does anyone have any methods for sanding down epoxy wraps and polishing them up again? To remove any slight blemishes. Jon from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Mar 6 12:29:18 1997 Subject: Another heat gun In looking for another heat gun - in a pannick I stopped at the localTrue Value Hardware and found one on sale. I one I bought was theEasypowerunit with their accessories pak the True Value #'s are: 355669 Easy Power 2 speed heat gun 21.88 (caught on sale)865238 4 pk asst. Heat Gun Wayne from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Mar 6 13:09:28 1997 with ESMTP id NAA25453 for ; Thu, 6 Mar1997 13:08:55 -0600 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA26112 for (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.8.3) with SMTP id YQTIACCQ; Thu, 6 Mar 199713:08:52 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: re: Another heat gun Wayne: Have you tried it out yet? Is it worth it, or is Steinel still the best bet? Thanks, Don DeLoach ------------------Original text In looking for another heat gun - in a pannick I stopped at the localTrue Value Hardware and found one on sale. I one I bought was theEasypowerunit with their accessories pak the True Value #'s are: 355669 Easy Power 2 speed heat gun 21.88 (caught on sale)865238 4 pk asst. Heat Gun Wayne from FFer4trout@aol.com Thu Mar 6 15:10:41 1997 Subject: Re: Polishing Wraps In a message dated 97-03-06 13:03:07 EST, you write: Subj: Polishing WrapsDate: 97-03-06 13:03:07 ESTFrom: jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu (Jon Lintvet)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Does anyone have any methods for sanding down epoxy wraps and polishing them up again? To remove any slight blemishes. Jon Jon, Sand them smooth and then add a light 50-50 thinned overcoat of epoxy(flexcoat). I was taught to use MEK to thin the flexcoat. Don B. from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Mar 6 15:15:20 1997 16:14:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Polishing Wraps Does anyone have any methods for sanding down epoxy wraps and polishing them up again? To remove any slight blemishes. Jon Epoxy on the wraps of a bamboo rod? hmmm. from 100423.176@CompuServe.COM Thu Mar 6 15:25:01 1997 Subject: Re:Polishing Wraps Does anyone have any methods for sanding down epoxy wraps and polishing them up again? To remove any slight blemishes. Jon from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Mar 6 21:31:05 1997 Subject: Re: hexrod In a message dated 97-03-01 15:51:10 EST, you write: f this is all nonsense Richard let me know your phone no. and I'll giveyou a call Jerry Jerry - its ok; thanks for all your help.Richard from plipton@sunvalley.net Fri Mar 7 09:46:25 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA99 Subject: Re: rod builders meeting Gary: Looking forward to the April12th get together. I wish we could make it atwo day affair. Do other folks share my feeling? GLohkamp@aol.com wrote: Hello Alll'am going to post the notice for the Portland Oregon rod buildersmeetingagain l see new builders to the list all the time so just in casel've missedsomeone ,it will be April 12th 1997 in TroutDale Oregon which isabout 18miles east of Portland . This is a one day meeting round tabledisscussion .So far we have 25 builders coming from all around the NorthWest .Ray Gouldwill be there with any luck his new book will be printed in time forthemeeting . Ed Hartzell , Jack Byrd , Tom Fulk as well as PhilipLipton , AlBellinger to name afew . Harold Demarest will be attending he istruely agreat man we are lucky he can make it . There is still room for 20morepeople lf you would like some detailed information about the meetingpleasefeel free to contact me . Hope you can make it .Gary Lohkamp503-666-4834glohkamp@aol.com -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Fri Mar 7 12:49:05 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: No need to read this - just a test Just testing from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Fri Mar 7 16:01:48 1997 PAA10364 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 15:01:30 -0700 Subject: Final Planing Form Fix Hello to all: I have purchased a set of reject forms from Frank in Colorado. The forms were exactly as Frank described them. They only cost $25.00 basically for shipping and handling. Anyhow, I spent most of last weekend draw filing the top and bottom surfaces true. Both my hands are bruised and blistered, but I now have true steel forms. The problem now is that the taper is off. I took so many valleys and ridges off the two form surfaces that I need to reconstruct the 0.001"/1" slope taper. I have attached a drawing of the jig that I plan to make in order to correct the problem. (Wayne: I think that my design is similar to the design that you described in your book, but I had trouble visualizing what you were describing. A great resource and book by the way. Well worth the money I spent for it.) I was wondering if some of you would check out the attached drawing and send me comments? The drawing is in a jpeg file format and most Internet browsers will view the drawing. I really want to know if my machinist to correct the taper. I have access to a drill press so the form alignment situation will be no problem. Regards- -Paul(Kalispell, Montana) Subject: Re: Final Planing Form Fix Paul That looks like one way to skin the cat. Wayne also hadanother idea expressed here on the list is to use a triangle file thatwas epoxied to something and work the 60 degree grouve thatway. I like the second idea better since the depth on both sideswill be the same. Give this consideration. from Mikael.Marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.SE Fri Mar 7 17:24:39 1997 skeria.skelleftea.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) 1.21);8 Mar 97 00:32:01 MET DST 00:31:56 MET DST 8 Mar 97 00:31:50 MET DST Subject: tapers Hello rodbuilders!I've added some salmon tapers to my rodbuilding / flyfishing site.Check them out and let me know if anyone tries to build the rods.See URL below. Regards...---------------------------------------------------------------- Mikael MarklundDragongatan 22931 64 Skellefftea0910- 777795mikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Fri Mar 7 17:48:23 1997 QAA11943 for ; Fri, 7 Mar 1997 16:48:10 -0700 Subject: Re: Final Planing Form Fix Chris wrote: Paul That looks like one way to skin the cat. Wayne also hadanother idea expressed here on the list is to use a triangle file thatwas epoxied to something and work the 60 degree grouve thatway. I like the second idea better since the depth on both sideswill be the same. Give this consideration. To all: I have thought about the triangular file. Sounds like a good idea. Do you know where I can get such a file? I assume the three edges mustbe very sharp, and the angles must be a very precise 60 degrees. I haven't seen such files around Kalispell, or in Enco, and Woodworkers Supply catalogs. -Paul************************************************ Dr. Paul Martino * * Flathead Valley Community College * Chemistry Department * 777 Grandview Dr. Kalispell, MT 59901 * * Phone: 406-756-3895 FAX: 406-756-3815 * * Email Address: pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us * *********************************************** from bootstrap@earthlink.net Fri Mar 7 17:49:33 1997 Subject: Re: Final Planing Form Fix Hello to all: I have purchased a set of reject forms from Frank in Colorado.The forms were exactly as Frank described them. They only cost$25.00 basically for shipping and handling. Anyhow, I spent most oflast weekend draw filing the top and bottom surfaces true. Both myhandsare bruised and blistered, but I now have true steel forms. Theproblem now is that the taper is off. I took so many valleys andridges off the two form surfaces that I need to reconstruct the 0.001"/1"slope taper. I have attached a drawing of the jig that I plan tomake in order to correct the problem. (Wayne: I think that mydesign is similar to the design that you described in your book, butI had trouble visualizing what you weredescribing. A great resource and book by the way. Well worth themoney I spent for it.) I was wondering if some of you would check out the attached drawingand send me comments? The drawing is in a jpeg file format and mostInternet browsers will view the drawing. I really want to know if my machinist to correct the taper. I have access to a drill press so the form alignment situation will be noproblem. Regards- -Paul(Kalispell, Montana)Hi, paul, this is Frank. Are the chamfers too far off to be able to filethem with a triangular file? If they're not too bad, attach a handle to afile and push it down the groove starting at the small end. Let me knowhow bad they are. I don't want yoiu to have to pay a machinist to do thatunless he's a friend and doing it for free. Otherwise, it'll bbe more thanthe forms are worth. Frank from bootstrap@earthlink.net Fri Mar 7 18:08:35 1997 Subject: Re: Final Planing Form Fix Chris: All I have is an old ENCO catalog, but in that catalog, I'drecommend the three following: get one of each, the bastard for the roughcut, then the second cut for clean up, and finally the smooth cut for thefinal smooth surface. the part numbers are as follows:382-6464-bastard cut, 382-6460- smooth cut, 382-6462, smooth cut. Orif youwish, like the lady said when the hardware clerk asked her if she wanted abastard cut, or a second cut file, " I think I'll take that little son-of-abitch over there!Frank in Colorado from lblan@oeonline.com Fri Mar 7 19:39:44 1997 (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0w3B6z-0005QpC; Fri, 7 Mar 97 20:39 EST Subject: Re: Final Planing Form Fix Paul; just a couple of comments. You mention a sharp file. It isn'tnecessary to use a file that tapers to a sharp edge, a common 60 degreefile will work just fine. Open the forms up, using shims at each station tokeep the gap even, or adjust them with the screws, and check with afeelergauge. Chris' advise is good, use Wayne's method, epoxy the file to arectangular block. The block gives you a good visual reference to ensurethat the file isn't canted. I use a 6" by 2" by 1/4" piece of aluminum.Work slowly, and check often. If you get close, you can do the last coupleof passes with a 60 degree stone. It leaves a nice finish, and isn't asaggressive as the file. Subject: Re: Final Planing Form FixDate: Friday, March 07, 1997 6:48 PM Chris wrote: Paul That looks like one way to skin the cat. Wayne also hadanother idea expressed here on the list is to use a triangle file thatwas epoxied to something and work the 60 degree grouve thatway. I like the second idea better since the depth on both sideswill be the same. Give this consideration. To all: I have thought about the triangular file. Sounds like a good idea. Do you know where I can get such a file? I assume the three edges mustbe very sharp, and the angles must be a very precise 60 degrees. I haven't seen such files around Kalispell, or in Enco, and Woodworkers Supply catalogs. -Paul************************************************ Dr. Paul Martino * * Flathead Valley Community College * Chemistry Department * 777 Grandview Dr. Kalispell, MT 59901 * * Phone: 406-756-3895 FAX: 406-756-3815 * * Email Address: pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us * *********************************************** from GLohkamp@aol.com Fri Mar 7 20:44:46 1997 Subject: Re: rod builders meeting Philip lt's getting close l'am hearing from more people all the time ,yes therehas been some talk about a two day meeting . This is something that we asagroup should talk about l don't want this to be a one time thing we shouldget together at least once a year .Next year the corbett lake meeting willbeheld in Merritt BC, it is a three day meeting firday nite all day sat, andjust people hanging out together on sunday . l had a great time there andplan on going next year . The corbett lake meeting is every other year lwould like to see a meeting to fill in the gap but that is just me .We willsee what everyone would like to do . Also l would like to discuss formatoptions . The meeting hall that l rented almost 3 months ago will not beavailableto have the meeting more than one day .But it could be possible to arrange thedeschutes should be fishing good then ,or possilbly meet at someones shopthesecond day . l guess we have another topic for disscussion . Well l need togo, got to finish a rod for the meeting . Thanks Gary from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sat Mar 8 10:41:31 1997 Subject: Re: Final Planing Form Fix Paul- I was just cleaning out a stack of mail to be thrown away, andfound an ENCO catalog for 1997. The files are on p. 301. The numbers arethe same, namely:382-6464-bastard cut, $2.40;382-6460-second cut, $2.14;382- 6462, smooth cut, $2.54.They're cheap, so when I buy files, I always order two each at the sametime, so order two of each, use one for your present job, and when you'redone, you'll be able to throw the worn one away and still have a new one inyour tool box. Frank from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Mar 8 11:02:56 1997 MAA02457 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 12:05:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Final Planing Form Fix Paul I just checked the master Enco Catalog - they have Triangle MillBastard files. I like this idea since you take both sides down at the sametime to the same depth while maintaining the angle. Also, I checked the big MSC book and they have triangler files, sharpening stones and polishing stones to finish the job with.I also have a triangler finishing stick to dress my froms just beforeplaning to remove any crap that may have accumilated. (800-645- 7270)Lots of luck on your project. from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sat Mar 8 11:05:07 1997 Subject: Re:Planing Form price increase/offer Announcement-Announcement-Announcement-Hey, guys, don't flame, I asked permission from the list guy to post this,and he said "okay."If you read THE PLANING FORM newsletter, you've probably noticed that theprice has gone up on the finish-planing form from Colorado Bootstrap.It'll be $325 plus shipping and handling ($25 in the US), for a total of$350.BUT, if you send a copy of this message along with your order, I'llstill honor the old price of $300.00, includes free shipping in thecontiguous US for anyone who is a member of this newsgroup. So you guyswho are lurking out there, here's a chance to save a little change. Printthis, and then when you decide to order, include a copy of this lettterwith your order. The offer is good until Dec. 31, 1997. Frank in Colorado .o..888. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster.8"888. Colorado Boostrap, Inc..8' `888. bootstrap@earthlink.net.88ooo8888. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.8' `888. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626o88o o8888o"It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,it's tha things we know that ain't so! -Artemus Ward from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Mar 8 13:14:44 1997 Subject: [Fwd: which hock] Subject: which hock Hiya, I want to order a Hock blade for my stanley 9 1/2 block plane, but I'mconfused by the two thicknesses. My planes are old style with theknurled, vertical adjustment nut, adjustable throat, etc. Do I want thethicker or thinner blade?Thanks for the help, Brian > from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Sat Mar 8 15:20:07 1997 OAA16850 for ; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 14:20:01 -0700 Subject: Re: Final Planing Form Fix Thanks for all the comments! Chris, Frank, Larry...and whoever else... I will look into getting a triangular file and stone. I will try ENCO, and possibly a local hatrdware store. -Paul(Kalispell, Montana) from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sat Mar 8 19:16:15 1997 SAA13924; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 18:16:11 -0700 Subject: Urac kicker Has anyone out there been using the amonium chloride as a kiker for uracas suggested by John Zimney in a past issue of the planning form? Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Sat Mar 8 19:41:27 1997 #19314) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, Subject: Re: Planing Form price increase/offer FrankThank -you for the great offer. I deeply appriciate the offer. You along with Wayne and other members of this list make it a hellua lot easier toenter rod building. Thanks to all.gerald(jerry) johnson from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Mar 8 21:44:16 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment In a message dated 97-02-24 21:01:42 EST, you write: Richard, your posting about Nyatex epoxy was interesting. This is athermoset resin. I had no idea. Did you know that Urac is also athermosetresin? It is used ine the manufacture of plywood and laminated productsusing high frequency to cure the the multiple glue lines very fast. If youwere to use urac and then cured it at the same time/temp that you useforthe epoxy you will get the same results.Urac is an easier adhesive to use, it is water soluble and the blank can bewashed with a wet cloth before cooking. Terry Delayed response:Terry - Thought that urac was quick-set at a milder temp, that highertempswould break it down. Right/wrong? Presently using urac with nh4cl askickerand find it quite good. What cooking time/temp do you propose w/urac?Nyatex can be set at 350 f for for as little as 15 min (per Nyatex) withgood results in case of a hurry, as in at least one rod making classprocedure. I've tried it and it seems as ok as otherwise had been used. Onechap used it thus from a batch at least 5-6 yrs old with no noticableproblems, so guess it has its strong points. We are blessed in that wehaveso many great choices - glad we do not depend solely on hide glue, for ex. Ichanged to urac because of it's reputation of being able to straighten withmilder heat than w/nyatex. Use nh4cl to control working time. I like toexperiment, and as my urac is about outdated, will next try Bill's dinosaurglue, tho it is a bit pricey. Regards,Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Mar 8 21:44:21 1997 Subject: Re: tapers In a message dated 97-02-24 21:32:18 EST, you write: From: cbogart@ibm.net (Chris Bogart) BillDo you mean things like swelled butts and stuff like that?If so, I believe that it was to stop the effective length of the taper -more of a control mechanism - some people like the action to goright into the handle and other want to control it by creating a definatestop. The question then procedes to how we can best control theweight - which is not all bad - I have to go back to a paragraph outof Bill Phillips book which is preceeded by: Chris - Cast an 8-ft #4 a few years ago, with the swell beginningsomewherearound 12" ahead of the grip. The builder said it was simply the taper of ashorter rod extended to 8' by the long swell. Wonder if that fits in withthe great scheme of things in the swell's development? Of course, therewerethe very early rods with the swell progressing on up to become the grip.Regards,RTyree from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Mar 8 21:49:15 1997 Subject: Re:Re:Planing Form price increase/offer At 09:04 08/03/97 -0800, you wrote:Announcement-Announcement- Announcement-Hey, guys, don't flame, I asked permission from the list guy to post this,and he said "okay."If you read THE PLANING FORM newsletter, you've probably noticed thattheprice has gone up on the finish-planing form from Colorado Bootstrap.It'll be $325 plus shipping and handling ($25 in the US), for a total of$350.BUT, if you send a copy of this message along with your order, I'llstill honor the old price of $300.00, includes free shipping in thecontiguous US for anyone who is a member of this newsgroup. So youguyswho are lurking out there, here's a chance to save a little change. Printthis, and then when you decide to order, include a copy of this lettterwith your order. The offer is good until Dec. 31, 1997. Frank in Colorado .o..888. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster.8"888. Colorado Boostrap, Inc..8' `888. bootstrap@earthlink.net.88ooo8888. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.8' `888. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626o88o o8888o"It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,it's tha things we know that ain't so! -Artemus Ward To all, Frank quotes for his product is way more than fair. My first set of formswere done by a major machine shop after touring the local shops with theprints and getting the same comment " they'll be ready next week" and thatwas in 1983 - still waiting for next week. The major shop produced me asetthat were so far off I returned them and had them rebuilt. The cost for thejob was $ 600.00 and I still had to build the bolts. from what I'vegathered, Frank's forms are "good equipment" and well worth the price.Whileyou can build rods with wooden form [ I did ], I recommend that you don'teven try if you expect to build more than a couple of rods. The time spentbuilding on a single rod using wood forms can yield about 3 on metal forms+the strips are a lot more accurate. just my $0.02 Don from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Mar 8 22:22:47 1997 Subject: Re: Urac kicker In a message dated 97-03-08 20:17:30 EST, you write: Has anyone out there been using the amonium chloride as a kiker for uracas suggested by John Zimney in a past issue of the planning form? Jim - yes. It works just fine for me. Let me know if you want details.Regards,Richard from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sat Mar 8 22:34:12 1997 VAA26594; Sat, 8 Mar 1997 21:34:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Urac kicker Jim - yes. It works just fine for me. Let me know if you want details.Regards,Richard Yes any info would be appreciated. esp. int in amount of kicker mixedwith the urac. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Mar 9 00:57:07 1997 Sun, 9 Mar 1997 14:56:43 +0800 (WST) Subject: Looking for Ron Barch Sorry to bother the list with this. If your out there Ron, could you reply to this. I've a message for you and it's been bouncing. I must have a wrong address. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Mar 9 06:17:17 1997 07:15:11 -0500 Subject: Re: heat treatment In a message dated 97-02-24 21:01:42 EST, you write: Richard, your posting about Nyatex epoxy was interesting. This is athermoset resin. I had no idea. Did you know that Urac is also athermosetresin? It is used ine the manufacture of plywood and laminated productsusing high frequency to cure the the multiple glue lines very fast. If youwere to use urac and then cured it at the same time/temp that you useforthe epoxy you will get the same results.Urac is an easier adhesive to use, it is water soluble and the blank canbewashed with a wet cloth before cooking. Terry Delayed response:Terry - Thought that urac was quick-set at a milder temp, that highertempswould break it down. Right/wrong? Presently using urac with nh4cl askickerand find it quite good. What cooking time/temp do you propose w/urac?Nyatex can be set at 350 f for for as little as 15 min (per Nyatex) withgood results in case of a hurry, as in at least one rod making classprocedure. I've tried it and it seems as ok as otherwise had been used. Onechap used it thus from a batch at least 5-6 yrs old with no noticableproblems, so guess it has its strong points. We are blessed in that wehaveso many great choices - glad we do not depend solely on hide glue, for ex. Ichanged to urac because of it's reputation of being able to straightenwithmilder heat than w/nyatex. Use nh4cl to control working time. I like toexperiment, and as my urac is about outdated, will next try Bill'sdinosaurglue, tho it is a bit pricey. Regards,Richard Urac can be cured at 225F. At this temp a 1/16in glue line sets up in1.5mins and a 1/8in glue line @ 3.0 min.Remember that you can wash the glued up section with a wet cloth toremoveall the excess glue before cooking! You cannot do that with epoxy. I wish you guys would explain to me the advantages of using the smellystuff? To me "the book" is rodmaking the hard way, and epoxy is taking it a stepfurther. Building nodeless rods with epoxy and one hand in your pocket could bereally interesting.Terry Ackland from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Mar 9 08:06:51 1997 09:04:48 -0500 Subject: urac If a glued up section is difficult to straighten, it is as it should be.Urac is difficult to straighten when used as a thermoset adhesive. Thereismoisture in urac and cooking removes that moisture that would otherwiseremain in the cane. Terry from george.barnes@acornbbs.com Sun Mar 9 09:28:40 1997 KAA32104 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 10:32:58 -0500 John Zimny: I've a question that should not clutter up the list, if you'll shoot me up your e-mail address.George Barnes(george.barnes@acornbbs.com) from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sun Mar 9 09:57:57 1997 IAA29921; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 08:57:52 -0700 Subject: Re: urac If a glued up section is difficult to straighten, it is as it should be.Urac is difficult to straighten when used as a thermoset adhesive. Thereismoisture in urac and cooking removes that moisture that wouldotherwiseremain in the cane. Terry Terry, in the previous post you said urac could be cured at 225 degrees. Is thisthe temp that you are using? Also are you using NH4CL as a kicker. Mylast rod I set at 175 degrees for one hour then kept it at 100 degreesovernight. seemed to work well but I would like to know the temps youhave been using. As a new builder I greatly appreciate any information onheat treating and setting urac that you would like to pass on. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Mar 9 10:46:32 1997 11:44:22 -0500 Subject: Re: urac If a glued up section is difficult to straighten, it is as it should be.Urac is difficult to straighten when used as a thermoset adhesive. Thereismoisture in urac and cooking removes that moisture that wouldotherwiseremain in the cane. Terry Terry, in the previous post you said urac could be cured at 225 degrees. Is thisthe temp that you are using? Also are you using NH4CL as a kicker. Mylast rod I set at 175 degrees for one hour then kept it at 100 degreesovernight. seemed to work well but I would like to know the temps youhave been using. As a new builder I greatly appreciate any information onheat treating and setting urac that you would like to pass on. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado Jim, 225 is the max safe temperature for curing urac, the time specified issupplied by Cyanamid for production manufacturers. You must decide whattemperature/time suites you, as long as you do not exceed 220F in theinitial say, 10 mins I am not going to give out exactly what I do. I do not have time, plus thereare books out there to be purchased and it is basically up to you to decidewhether the information is correct. I have only read Carmichaels book, it is an excellent book to start with butremember it is only a guide for amateur builders and I have not been anamateur builder for a few years now. A big problem is, is that most of the subscribers on the list have not helda good bamboo rod, they are too young. I willingly tell guys what I think they should not use, epoxy and tung oiletc only because I have tried them and they give problems. Terry from rcurry@jlc.net Sun Mar 9 13:33:30 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA01490 for Subject: Extra Wise Fisherman's Encyclopedia I picked up a spare Wise Fisherman's Encyclopedia today. It lookedlonely.If anyone wants it, it is a first edition (1951) with dustjacket,overall in good condition, for $30 U.S. plus shipping.This book contains an excellent section on cane rodmaking.Best regards,Reed Curryrcurry@jlc.net from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Mar 9 13:59:30 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA77 Subject: Re: Planing Form price increase/offer Don's comments about Frank's forms are similar to my experience. Ibought my first form from a fellow builder here in Idaho. It is a niceform but one shoulder bolt is too short. It was a $100.00 more expensivethan the Colorado Bootstrap form so there was no bargain to the deal. Ialso have another form from Jeff Wagner. It is well made and longer(6-1/2 feet). At twice the price I can't say it is twice as good. Lastyear, I built a rod on one of Frank's form and it worked well. My initial problem was that I heard his forms were not accurate. Thatmight have been true for some early forms but it is not the case now.They say a good craftsman never blames his tools. There is a sense forme that accuracy comes from developing my skills. It doesn't come frommy tools. The skill is working to tolerances tighter than my tools. Don Andersen wrote: To all, thatFrank quotes for his product is way more than fair. My first set offormswere done by a major machine shop after touring the local shops withtheprints and getting the same comment " they'll be ready next week"and thatwas in 1983 - still waiting for next week. The major shop producedme a setthat were so far off I returned them and had them rebuilt. The cost job was $ 600.00 and I still had to build the bolts. from what I'vegathered, Frank's forms are "good equipment" and well worth theprice. Whileyou can build rods with wooden form [ I did ], I recommend that youdon'teven try if you expect to build more than a couple of rods. The timespentbuilding on a single rod using wood forms can yield about 3 on metalforms +the strips are a lot more accurate. just my $0.02 Don ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Mar 9 14:08:58 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA269 Subject: Re: Scrapers Wayne: Do you remember showing me a miniature scraper in your tool box? I waslooking through catalog 30 from CMT Tools and on page 57 they show avery similar scraper and plane. I have a second catalog if you areinterested or you can call them at 800-531- 5559. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Jerry.Snider@UC.Edu Sun Mar 9 16:12:42 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: Bootstrap Planing Forms Frank, received your hex form and the rough form. Thanks for providing uswith a decent form for a good price! The rough form is fantastic, excellentprice, and way overbuilt (that is NOT a complaint!). Thanks for steering mein the right direction with all of your advice.At 04:08 PM 3/7/97 -0800, you wrote:Chris: All I have is an old ENCO catalog, but in that catalog, I'drecommend the three following: get one of each, the bastard for theroughcut, then the second cut for clean up, and finally the smooth cut for thefinal smooth surface. the part numbers are as follows:382-6464- bastard cut, 382-6460-smooth cut, 382-6462, smooth cut. Orif youwish, like the lady said when the hardware clerk asked her if she wantedabastard cut, or a second cut file, " I think I'll take that little son-of-abitch over there!Frank in Colorado Jerry Snidere-mail: CINC@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDUhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from jfoster@gte.net Sun Mar 9 17:47:21 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id RAA18893 for; Sun, 9 Mar 1997 17:47:18 -0600 Subject: ferrules Reed..anyone Whats the story with titanium ferrules..?? Jerry from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sun Mar 9 18:46:49 1997 Subject: Re: Extra Wise Fisherman's Encyclopedia I want it if it's still available. Frank in Colorado-Colorado Bootstrap18599 E. Louisiana Ave.Aurora, CO 80017(303)745-1353FAX (303)7551-8626Let me know how to get the money to you. Thanks .A. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster.AAA. Colorado Boostrap, Inc..A"AAA. bootstrap@earthlink.net.A' `AAA. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.AAaaaaAAA. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626.A' `AAA. "It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,aAAa aAAAAa it's tha things we know that ain't so!" -Artemus Ward from bootstrap@earthlink.net Sun Mar 9 18:49:51 1997 Subject: Re: Bootstrap Planing Forms Thanks for those kind words, Jerry. I appreciate them. Good luck and stayin touch. Frank in Colorado .A. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster.AAA. Colorado Boostrap, Inc..A"AAA. bootstrap@earthlink.net.A' `AAA. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.AAaaaaAAA. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626.A' `AAA. "It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,aAAa aAAAAa it's tha things we know that ain't so!" -Artemus Ward from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Mar 9 19:27:20 1997 Subject: I should know better - - - I should know better - butQuite often at the end of a tiring day I will sit with a cup of coffeeand reflect on the different thoughts and events. It's one of the times thatlife and I seem to get back in touch with each other. And because of myinvolvement with bamboo rod making those thoughts often revolve aroundthatinterest. I just got back from the fly fishing show at Southfield - had agreat time. As I shared earlier I have been involved with the show for anumber of years and in preparing for the show I came across a brochurefromthe 1985 show which was the first that I attended. I brought it along totheshow so that Sam and I could reviewed it together. from 1985 until today50 %of the individuals and shops are no longer involved with the business.Included in that list, several "PROFESSIONAL" rod makers. They havevanished.I would suspect that either their expectations were set too high or theirquality too low with respect to todays market.I have always said that my rod making is a hobby - therefore I can beand am considered an amateur at it - just as many of the others I knowconsider themselves amateurs at it. But the label 'amateur' doesn'tdescribeeither their knowledge of the craft or their workmanship. Today some ofthebest bamboo fly rods ever made are being produced by this group who somemaylabel as less than the professionals that they are.Last night Lyndi and I were at diner with a group from the show - TomBrookover has a pasta fest each year and invites his friends over for funandfellowship. It's times like last night and at the get togethers that Irealize a part of why I make rods. It's the people. Like Sam says - if itwere money that we were after then we should be selling real estateinstead.The rodmakers list was started by and has been supported by those whoenjoythe craft and the people involved with it. And it has been and shouldalwaysbe a place where those looking for information can come and feel free toaskquestions of the other list members. Well, the coffee is ready - I think I'll take a cup and go down to theshop - I'd hate to lose touch with reality Wayne from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Mar 9 20:19:37 1997 Subject: Re: heat treatment In a message dated 97-03-09 07:21:06 EST, you write: Urac can be cured at 225F. At this temp a 1/16in glue line sets up in1.5mins and a 1/8in glue line @ 3.0 min. Terry - Thanks for the info. Regards,RTyree from rcurry@jlc.net Sun Mar 9 20:20:19 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA10208 for Subject: Re: Extra Wise Fisherman's Encyclopedia Franz O. Armbruster wrote: I want it if it's still available. Frank in Colorado-Colorado Bootstrap18599 E. Louisiana Ave.Aurora, CO 80017(303)745-1353FAX (303)7551-8626Let me know how to get the money to you. Thanks To Frank and all the others (except one),I'm sorry, the book is bespoke. Would that I had enough for all.Best regards,Reed from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Mar 9 21:43:53 1997 Subject: Re: Final Planing Form Fix Paul -In better reading the posts - I forgot to answer all your questions. Thetriangle file I talked of can be had for most any hardware store - a checkofthe angle with a center gauge might be in order just to make sure it is atrue 60 degree angle. For the epoxy to hold it on just use the 2 ton stuff -eventually it will come loose of the plastic but it should last for the oneset of forms that you are working on.Wayne from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Mar 9 21:53:52 1997 22:51:33 -0500 Subject: what is an amateur? The word AMATEUR is not used in a derogatory way, it has nothing to dowithquality. If A maker builds a rod and he pays no attention to how long ittakes and is just happy to have sold a couple of rods no matter if he isworking for $10 per hour then, to my thinking he is an amateur.As far as I can gather if you build a rod by "the book" it takes between 50and 60 hrs, add to that the cost of all the hardware and you are onminimumwage. A professional to me is a builder who can produce a rod sell it and walkaway with a realistic profit from his investment and skill. The fame factor is important in rodmaking to many builders and this hasbeenperpetuated by angling authors and historians that have ignored the factthat most custom rodmakers died poor. Heddon,Granger and other production rodmakers made good rods and alsomadegood profits and to me these are the companies to emulate when bamboo isrediscovered. Terry from tyoung@perth.DIALix.oz.au Sun Mar 9 23:36:37 1997 Mon, 10 Mar 1997 13:36:29 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: what is an amateur? Personaly, I don't see a problem with being called an amatuer. Used in the correct way all it realy means is non professional, and no matter how many rods I'll ever make, I don't want to have to earn a living at it. All that would do is force me to find another hobby to unwind with.Besides, amatures don't *have* to perform, they can experiment. It's always been amatures who developed ideas into paying enterprises likeearly planes starting with kites, motors, boats etc, etc.Don't cringe at being an amature, rather enjoy it's freedom to be creative. I'll just slink away into my corner again now and make some shavings.... Tony On Sun, 9 Mar 1997, ACKLAND TERENCE wrote: The word AMATEUR is not used in a derogatory way, it has nothing to dowithquality. If A maker builds a rod and he pays no attention to how long ittakes and is just happy to have sold a couple of rods no matter if he isworking for $10 per hour then, to my thinking he is an amateur.As far as I can gather if you build a rod by "the book" it takes between50and 60 hrs, add to that the cost of all the hardware and you are onminimumwage. A professional to me is a builder who can produce a rod sell it and walkaway with a realistic profit from his investment and skill. The fame factor is important in rodmaking to many builders and this hasbeenperpetuated by angling authors and historians that have ignored the factthat most custom rodmakers died poor. Heddon,Granger and other production rodmakers made good rods and alsomadegood profits and to me these are the companies to emulate when bambooisrediscovered. Terry /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Mar 10 13:13:09 1997 Subject: Re: what is an amateur? To Tony, Terry et al,The word "amateur" derives from the Latin meaning "love" and used tomean one does something for the joy of doing it. I'm extremely jealous ofmyamateur status as a huntsman and hound man but I'm better at it than mostprofessionals I know-being an amateur is no put down in my book.Hank. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Mon Mar 10 14:34:36 1997 Subject: Re: george.barnes@acornbbs.com wrote: John Zimny: I've a question that should not clutter up the list, if you'll shoot meup your e- mail address.George Barnes(george.barnes@acornbbs.com)Hi George,Need to talk to you too. Want one of those plane depth setters that you're making. You can also get me at jczimny@bamboorods.comJohn from jfoster@gte.net Mon Mar 10 14:58:20 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id OAA10906 for; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:57:47 -0600 Subject: archive All Just a note to let you know I got a very nice email from Dennis Highamdiscussing the tbbq tapers I had previously posted. I had made severalinterpretive errors which he helped me straighten out. anyway.... thebbq tapers have been straightend out now and I beleive they are correct. Jerry from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Mon Mar 10 16:22:55 1997 SVR4) (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA272212361; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 14:19:21 -0800 Subject: forms Does anybody know if Lon Bluevelt (spelling?) still makes planning forms and if so does anybody have a phone number or e-mail address for him.I was wondering why not use stainless steel to build planning forms, ifa guy is going to put the bevel on the steel forms himself why not usestainless and completly do away with the problem of rust and skin acidseating the surface of the forms. Two peices of stainless to buld a formcan't be that expensive to make the forms or is there another reason Patrick from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 10 17:07:22 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA21690 +0000 Subject: Re: forms Patrick W. Coffey wrote: Does anybody know if Lon Bluevelt (spelling?) still makes planning formsand if so does anybody have a phone number or e-mail address for him.I was wondering why not use stainless steel to build planning forms, ifa guy is going to put the bevel on the steel forms himself why not usestainless and completly do away with the problem of rust and skin acidseating the surface of the forms. Two peices of stainless to buld a formcan't be that expensive to make the forms or is there another reason Patrick from a metalurgical point of view, I would think the free machiningforms of stainless would do quite well - 303 (free machining form of304) and 416 are the two grades I've specified for other things. The 300series is basically non- magnetic, if I remember my former lifecorrectly. These have a machinability index of 60 to 80 (100 being themachinability of mild steel, i.e. 1018). Typically, the additives thatmake steel stainless make it hard to machine. If you can overcome that,stainless is great. Also, remember that stainless is a relative term. It is quite easy toget "stainless" to corrode under the proper conditions, most commonlyexcess moisture (like in a garage in winter). The 300 series should bemore resistant than the 400 series. Best regards, Ed Estlow (caveat: not much knowledge of planing forms, but a fair amount onsteels) from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Mar 10 18:04:18 1997 TAA04621 for ; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 19:04:13 Subject: Tapers Hi Chris, 3/9/97Richard's message of 3/8/97 was a reminder to me to respond to yourquestion about swelled butts. They seem like a nice cosmetic but they doadda bit of weight and quite honestly when I try swelled butts my glue jointscome out less than great. Any suggestions?One more thought prompted by your quote from Bill Phillips: I don't everintend to become a slave to lightness to the point where rod performanceiscompromised. My rods seem to perform OK. Computer taper programs basedonstress curves would seem to guarantee this compared to empirical (trialanderror) tapers. And nobody who's a real light weight nut should ever messwith penta's. They should make only quads. Bill from jaquin@netsync.net Mon Mar 10 20:19:33 1997 quartz.netsync.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA14650 for; Mon, 10 Mar 1997 21:19:30 -0500 Subject: Re: I should know better - - - WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I should know better - butQuite often at the end of a tiring day I will sit with a cup of coffeeand reflect on the different thoughts and events. It's one of the timesthatlife and I seem to get back in touch with each other. And because of myinvolvement with bamboo rod making those thoughts often revolvearound thatinterest. I just got back from the fly fishing show at Southfield - had agreat time. As I shared earlier I have been involved with the show for anumber of years and in preparing for the show I came across a brochurefromthe 1985 show which was the first that I attended. I brought it along totheshow so that Sam and I could reviewed it together. from 1985 untiltoday 50 %of the individuals and shops are no longer involved with the business.Included in that list, several "PROFESSIONAL" rod makers. They havevanished.I would suspect that either their expectations were set too high or theirquality too low with respect to todays market.I have always said that my rod making is a hobby - therefore I can beand am considered an amateur at it - just as many of the others I knowconsider themselves amateurs at it. But the label 'amateur' doesn'tdescribeeither their knowledge of the craft or their workmanship. Today some ofthebest bamboo fly rods ever made are being produced by this group whosome maylabel as less than the professionals that they are.Last night Lyndi and I were at diner with a group from the show -TomBrookover has a pasta fest each year and invites his friends over for funandfellowship. It's times like last night and at the get togethers that Irealize a part of why I make rods. It's the people. Like Sam says - if itwere money that we were after then we should be selling real estateinstead.The rodmakers list was started by and has been supported by those whoenjoythe craft and the people involved with it. And it has been and shouldalwaysbe a place where those looking for information can come and feel free toaskquestions of the other list members.Well, the coffee is ready - I think I'll take a cup and go down to theshop - I'd hate to lose touch with reality Wayne hi wayne that was a great note on the Why you're in the rod makingbusiness. have read your book through once and gathering my thoughts onequipment. one question on final planing form. You filed your own 60degree taper in the form. What grade of steel is the form made of? Just cold rolled steel? some tool steels are hard enough, it would takeforever to file those grooves. do you know of any shops that wouldmachine the grooves at a reasonable cost? thanks for your help!! from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Mar 10 21:10:55 1997 22:08:12 -0500 Subject: going by the book The problem with building rods by the book is the expense of theequipmentis very high and selling a couple of rods to get some of the original outlayback is necessary. This is difficult because the methods taught in the bookdoes not make it a commercially viable proposition. I had (have) a small rodbuilding book written by a a guy down in Maine,George Burns or Barnes? He made rodmaking look simple, too simple infact,how could you build a bamboo rod with a hunting knife? In retrospect this book is excellent, for the equipment requirements areminimal and an angler can build himself a couple of rods with very littleoutlay. The book may have been a victim of its simplicity. Who wouldbelieverodbuilding was that simple after reading Carmichaels technicallyslightlyover the top offering on a subject that is basically a handicraft! I guess there are two schools of thought.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Mar 10 21:36:08 1997 22:33:31 -0500 Subject: Re: what is an amateur? Personaly, I don't see a problem with being called an amatuer. Used in the correct way all it realy means is non professional, and no matter how many rods I'll ever make, I don't want to have to earn a living at it. All that would do is force me to find another hobby to unwind with.Besides, amatures don't *have* to perform, they can experiment. It's always been amatures who developed ideas into paying enterprises likeearly planes starting with kites, motors, boats etc, etc.Don't cringe at being an amature, rather enjoy it's freedom to be creative. I'll just slink away into my corner again now and make some shavings.... Tony I,ll disagree very slightly with you Tony, The professionals of the old daysknew stuff that we have to rediscover and I have not noticed any strikingdevelopments yet among the new crop. OK rod finishing has been developed to the point of garish overstatement.Who would buy a rod now with the primitive yet functional fittings thatGarrison made? There has been a sort of contest on the best finished rodsthat was started by T&T and is now the hallmark of a good flyrod. I think this is a shame really for a good rod is about casting performanceand looking half decent. Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Mar 10 21:48:27 1997 22:45:50 -0500 Subject: Re: what is an amateur? Personaly, I don't see a problem with being called an amatuer. Used in the correct way all it realy means is non professional, and no matter how many rods I'll ever make, I don't want to have to earn a living at it. All that would do is force me to find another hobby to unwind with.Besides, amatures don't *have* to perform, they can experiment. It's always been amatures who developed ideas into paying enterprises likeearly planes starting with kites, motors, boats etc, etc.Don't cringe at being an amature, rather enjoy it's freedom to be creative. I'll just slink away into my corner again now and make some shavings.... Tony Tony, I actually have a day job, I am a tool and die maker. When I buildrods I build them making sure that I do not suffer financially. What is thepoint of working in the basement for nothing when I can get overtime rateatwork? I have to make more than overtime rate, its that simple.Terry from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Mar 10 22:03:26 1997 00:02:43 -0400 (AST) Subject: Re: going by the book Hey Terry, Bye the bye, Mr Barnes is a member of our list, he appears to be mostaccomodating and congenial. It should be noted that fine wordworking haschanged very little in the past, oh few, hundred years or so. With theexception of time saving power tools, adhesives and finish materials thecraft remains much the same. Some would suggest that even the use ofpowertools is a compromise to the purist. If the goal of a good rod is a marriageof aesthetics and performance, it is important not to lose sight thatbeautyis indeed in the eye of the beholder and user. I personally don't think flyrods need fine tooling on the reel seat a la gun tooling, but many do. I ampleased that some makers do this so that the user (purchaser) can selectthat rod if he/her so chooses. I was once asked "what is the mostsignificant technological change that has taken place in the last 50 years".Other than modern fly lines, ff'ing itself remain unchanged. Graphite,fiberglass, submarine technology, synthetic dubbing, monofilamentleadersdon't make you a better fisherman per se, just poorer and lazier. I figurethat Vince Marinaro or George Harvey could out fish me today with theirgear from the fifties. Anyway, I've run of at the mouth (fingers) enough for one night. Best Regards, JB Regards and thin shavings, JB At 22:08 10/03/97 -0500, you wrote:The problem with building rods by the book is the expense of theequipmentis very high and selling a couple of rods to get some of the original outlayback is necessary. This is difficult because the methods taught in thebookdoes not make it a commercially viable proposition. I had (have) a small rodbuilding book written by a a guy down in Maine,George Burns or Barnes? He made rodmaking look simple, too simple infact,how could you build a bamboo rod with a hunting knife? In retrospect this book is excellent, for the equipment requirements areminimal and an angler can build himself a couple of rods with very littleoutlay. The book may have been a victim of its simplicity. Who wouldbelieverodbuilding was that simple after reading Carmichaels technicallyslightlyover the top offering on a subject that is basically a handicraft! I guess there are two schools of thought.Terry James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Mar 10 22:59:45 1997 Subject: Re: Tapers or plastic. yecchh! from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Mar 10 23:07:16 1997 Subject: Re: what is an amateur? Terry,Perhaps for some (yuppie scum, wet-behind-the-ears,more-money- than-sense) fly fisherfolk the finish is the hallmark, but Ihumbly believe that the performance of a rod in casting and playing afish is the acid-test. AHB/AWB.Yet again, as my daddy told me so many years ago"It's just as easy to love a pretty one." ;^)Brian from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Mar 11 05:00:23 1997 KAA20001 for ; Tue, 11 Mar 1997 10:59:13GMT Subject: A novice's tribulations Good morning everyone. Greetings from southern England. I'm new to yourlist, which is providing some fascinating snippets of information. After twenty-odd years in the soulless plastic wilderness, some of us Britsare returning to proper bamboo rods. Some, more sensitive characters,neverleft them of course. Others of us - perhaps without the innate neuralconnection to the natural integrity of bamboo, needed prompting in onewayor another. We are grateful to those who provided the necessary catalysttoproduce the reaction that was for so long dormant in us. Those of usre-converted tend to be the greatest proselytizers: like recentlyconfirmednon-smokers. There's no harm in that. Returning to bamboo, and thenon-razzmatazz ways of a kinder world is the best thing that hashappened tomy fishing in twenty years. It has put me in touch with folks of like mind:quieter, more aesthetic souls for whom the fishing is more important thanthe fish. I just wish I'd seen the light years ago. The next step is obvious - I must take a piece of that 'lovely reed' andconvert it with my own hands into a fishing rod that combines my love,andmy modest craft, with the Chinese wisdom in the cane. If you think that'stoo romantic, or just plain foolish - keep it to yourself please. It's aslight of mind that gives me pleasure. A couple of year ago I made some bamboo rod-sections on a Moss-type 60degree hardwood former. The top professional who put me on to themethodsuggested that if I couldn't make a good rod by this method, I would be a'pillock' (a British term of derision). The result - I proved to be apillock. Despite being a pretty handy wood-worker, my sections we