from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 1 00:06:16 1997 Subject: Re: Leonard blank In a message dated 97-03-31 15:20:46 EST, you write: What I was getting at is that you should not assemble andwiggle the rod before you wrap and coat the thread. Thiswill break loose a tab or two, and then the ferrule has abetter chance of coming loose. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 1 00:15:38 1997 Subject: Re: splitting headaches Splitting the bottom half of a culm is not easy. Ittakes practice. I can split the butt strips down to24, and I rarely have a reject other than imperfectionsin the culm I have to split around. I split the top halfin to 32 strips, but it took a year before I was able to do this. I don't think there is a magic procedure to beable to split like this, you just have to practice. Darryl Hayashida from d-deloach1@ti.com Tue Apr 1 01:01:34 1997 ESMTP id BAA22678 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA25783 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id QLHBAAAH; Tue,1 Apr 1997 01:01:01 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: Re: Cattanach 6' 6" Jon-- look at page 222 and compare it to page 223. Two pages with twodifferent 2-pctapers for a 6'6" 4-weight. The rod I am interested in is the one on the leftside of page 222 (11/64th ferrule). I'm almost positive its a misprint andtherod is a three-weight. I guessing this is so because of the other evennumberedpages in the tapers section-- for 6', 6'3", 7'0", and 7'3", all these are3-weight tapers. So, my question remains, is this 11/64 ferrule 6'6" taper a three- weightornot? ------------------Original text You are looking at a 2pc on the left of the page and a 3pc on the right hand side of the page. That's all. On 31 Mar 97 at 10:28, Don DeLoach wrote: All: I have decided on Wayne's 6'6" 4-weight taper for my first rod. I'd like toknow, though, why he has two 6'6" tapers for 4-weight in the book-- theoneI'mbuilding is the lighter one (butt is .240 I think). Could it be that it isactually a three-weight (typo)? What's the difference between the twotapers.One is stouter than the other--does this just mean its a little faster? Thanks Don DeLoach Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue Apr 1 08:32:15 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA17231 for; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:32:13 -0500 Subject: Dip Tubes Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan on using Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Apr 1 09:15:08 1997 Subject: Re: Dip Tubes Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG wrote: Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan onusing Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering I know of no reason why you couldn't use PVC pipe for a dip tube.John from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 09:38:09 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:43:48 EDT Subject: Re: splitting headaches Just so you know...I have problems similar to that. Wayne's book and Garrisons both talk about putting pressure on the side of the strip you want the split to walk back to. I tried but I did not have much luck. I was building a 3pc so I could split some of those wedge shaped sections into two. I think when I split the top section of the culm I will try Garrison's method. P.S. Jon L.- Do you ever take time out to study or go to class? Or doyou get credit for rod building? ;^) I wish...yesterday I got the Versatis sharpening guide and played all night. I think I got thee sharpening thing down pretty well now. The only problem is I have a Professional Speech and Communication exam tomorrow....so obviously...the exam will just have to wait. I am heat treating today damn it. :) Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 09:38:21 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:43:59 EDT Subject: Re: Cattanach 6' 6" Oh I see what you are talking about. I would agree it is a misprint. But, that is just me. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Canerods@aol.com Tue Apr 1 10:06:00 1997 Subject: Re: Dip Tubes In a message dated 97-04-01 10:50:33 EST, you write: Subj: Re: Dip TubesDate: 97-04-01 10:50:33 ESTFrom: JCZIMNY@dol.net (John Zimny)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG wrote: Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan onusing Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering I know of no reason why you couldn't use PVC pipe for a dip tube.John I'm building one now out of ABS pipe. I think after a coating of varnishbuilds- up on the inside - they'd all be the same. Don Burns from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 1 11:13:18 1997 Subject: Leonard Rod I was given a rod to work on by an elderly man who suddenly became illandpassed away. The rod is a 3 pc 8 ft Leonard Tornament. It feels like a 5weight. I don't know the model number. The cork grip is somewhat erodedand the female ferrule on the butt needs to be swaged. Some one replacedtheguides with black stainless at one point. A good job , but incorrect. In anycase, I am considering making an offer to the man's family for the rod, butdon't know what is fair. Anybody got a clue? It is probably fishable as is,but really should be completely re-done. -- Tom from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 1 12:01:19 1997 Subject: Leonard Rod RO>I was given a rod to work on by an elderly man who suddenly became illandRO>passed away. The rod is a 3 pc 8 ft Leonard Tornament. It feels like a 5RO>weight. I don't know the model number. The cork grip is somewhaterodedRO>and the female ferrule on the butt needs to be swaged. Some onereplaced thRO>guides with black stainless at one point. A good job , but incorrect. InanyRO>case, I am considering making an offer to the man's family for the rod,butRO>don't know what is fair. Anybody got a clue? It is probably fishable asis,RO>but really should be completely re-done. -- Tom Tom, The last Phil Snyder rod list (Art Warner's section) had: 8' Leonard Tournament (Hunt Model), circa 1930's, (3/2) (1tip 1 3/4"short at tip top but fishable), 4 2/5 oz (actual), DT5 line, crisp medaction, .... orig bag but unorig/ordinary tube. This is one classy rod. (t) VG cond(exception noted) $675 Art # is (310) 430-0183 Hope this helps. Don B. from bokstrom@axionet.com Tue Apr 1 15:35:20 1997 Subject: Re: Dip Tubes ----------From: Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Subject: Dip TubesDate: Tuesday, April 01, 1997 1:32 AM Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan on using Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Nothing wrong with the PVC, but there is the clear possibility that thesolvents in the urethane will soften whatever cement is used for the endcap of your tube. This won't happen immediately and can be avoided by NOTstoring urethane in your dip tube.How do I know this? Learned the hard way -- it ain't easy mopping up aquart of urethane from the bottom of a 30 inch pipe set in the basementfloor. Used copper ever since. John from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 15:46:56 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:52:30 EDT Subject: Re: Dip Tubes Just an idea. I was making a soaking tube for strips and came up with this solution. I do not know how permanent it is however. If the tube is going to be resting on the bottom on the floor...try this if you want. I coated the outside of the length of tube with vaseline....heheh...yup that is right...and forced the cap on. As long as the tube is resting on the ground I do not see a problem. However....I don't want to soak up a 6'x2" of water with a shop vac...not to mention varnish. On 1 Apr 97 at 7:12, John Bokstrom wrote: ----------From: Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Subject: Dip TubesDate: Tuesday, April 01, 1997 1:32 AM Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan on using Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Nothing wrong with the PVC, but there is the clear possibility that thesolvents in the urethane will soften whatever cement is used for the endcap of your tube. This won't happen immediately and can be avoided byNOTstoring urethane in your dip tube.How do I know this? Learned the hard way -- it ain't easy mopping up aquart of urethane from the bottom of a 30 inch pipe set in the basementfloor. Used copper ever since. John Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mrj@seanet.com Tue Apr 1 17:14:16 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00689 for Subject: Re: Form working troubles. brian & michelle creek wrote: Paul - Drill a hole in the end of your tap (size isn't critical, just leave agood ring of metal around the outside for strength) and buy an'easy-out' to fit it. You can find them at machinery supply stores orgood hardware stores. These twist into the busted screw, tap, whateverin the opposite twist used to drive them in (usually counterclock-wise). Then carefully, slowly, crank the broken part out, cuss atit, and give it another try.Good luck.Brian Brian and Michelle, FYI There is no possible way you are going to drill out a broken off tapunless it is the softest possible metel (unlikely you will ever find atap this bad) or you take the temper out. Taking the temper out is notpractical as you would most likely warp the forms. from kkimmel@tnc.com Tue Apr 1 17:50:20 1997 nisku.blackgold.ab.ca (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA02108 for Subject: ARAI Does anyone know anything about ARAI flyrods manufactured inJapan?The one I have is about 45 Years old.Its a 7 1/2' three section I think 6wt.History? Value? Where can I get more info?----------------------------------- -----------------------KEN KIMMELHYDRIL CANADIAN CO., LTD2307 8 ST.NISKU, ALBERTAT9E 7Z3PH. 403 955 2045FAX 403 955 7627 from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Apr 1 18:04:07 1997 20:03:34 -0400 (AST) Subject: Re: Dip Tubes I think the only downside to PVC is the natural tendency to create staticelectricity and draw dust etc. JB At 09:32 01/04/97 +0000, you wrote:Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan on using Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Apr 1 18:04:10 1997 20:03:36 -0400 (AST) Subject: Re: Leonard Rod A mint rod would be around 900-1100 (tube & bag), yours is probablyworthforty percent less, just an estimate. JB At 12:12 01/04/97 -0500, you wrote:I was given a rod to work on by an elderly man who suddenly became illandpassed away. The rod is a 3 pc 8 ft Leonard Tornament. It feels like a 5weight. I don't know the model number. The cork grip is somewhaterodedand the female ferrule on the butt needs to be swaged. Some one replacedtheguides with black stainless at one point. A good job , but incorrect. In anycase, I am considering making an offer to the man's family for the rod,butdon't know what is fair. Anybody got a clue? It is probably fishable as is,but really should be completely re-done. -- Tom James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 1 18:07:11 1997 Wed, 2 Apr 1997 08:06:58 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: ARAI On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Ken Kimmel wrote: Does anyone know anything about ARAI flyrods manufactured inJapan?The one I have is about 45 Years old.Its a 7 1/2' three section I think 6wt.History? Value? Where can I get more info?----------------------------------- -----------------------KEN KIMMELHYDRIL CANADIAN CO., LTD2307 8 ST.NISKU, ALBERTAT9E 7Z3PH. 403 955 2045FAX 403 955 7627 I don't know about this specific brand but I was recently talking to a fellow who made rods in his younger days in the UK and went to Japan after WWII and bought some "split" cane rods. He told me they looked split but were only planed from a solid piece. You could tell by looking down the ferrules and seeing if there are splines. Of course not all were like this but it seems they existed. The first cane rod I ever cast was Japaneese and it was so poor a casting device I couldn't believe anybody was bothering with them, I now think this rod may have been one of these.It came in a rather nice looking blue velvet hard case and had all the looks of a good rod until you tried it.I'll say again though that I'm sure these hex shaped solid rods were not the rule. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 1 19:02:55 1997 Subject: Fine Woodworking To all, John Bokstrom was kind enough to let me read an article in the May/June1987issue of fine Woodworking entitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity" whenIwas visiting with him last weekend. The article details testingundertakento determine what finishes are best to protect wood. The article will, I'mafraid, blow a few theories into right field about some of the finishes weuse on cane rods. Does anyone out there in radio land know whether Fine Woodworking has ahomepage or email address where I could get permission to share theinformationthat John had with the rest of us. I would assume that the article iscovered by copyright and I would not want to infringe upon someone'sbusiness. regards, Don from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Apr 1 19:06:48 1997 Subject: Re: Form working troubles. Thanks. I stand corrected. Use easy outs on hardened bolts, didn'tthink taps were that much harder! Brian from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 1 19:21:24 1997 Subject: lost messages I'm setting up my AOL account with an email address just for readingthis list- serv. I'm also still subscribed to the rodbuilders on my CMIXaccount and I've noticed not all messages are arriving on AOL. BesidesAOL being all screwed- up is there any other reasons that this couldhappen? Thank, Don Burns from rickcunn@tenet.edu Tue Apr 1 19:34:54 1997 Subject: Re: Form working troubles. Paul,Just in case you have not gotten the broken tap out by now, let me tell you how I did it just a few weeks ago. This tap was really stuck. I even broke a tap extractor trying to get it out. A machinist friend finally told me how.I took a carbide end mill slightly smaller than the hole and chewed it out.Luckily, I have a small mill in my shop.Good luck,Rick from rfairfie@cisco.com Tue Apr 1 19:39:30 1997 RAA17986 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:38:57 - 0800 Subject: Re: Fine Woodworking Fine Woodworking has a home page athttp://www.taunton.com/fw/index.htm. Thereis a link to the current issue of the magazine. There might be somethingon thepage that will point you to where you want to go. Thanks,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Apr 1 17:19:00 1997 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Don Andersen Subject: Fine WoodworkingMime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: dmanders@mail.ccinet.ab.caX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent- Length: 725 To all, John Bokstrom was kind enough to let me read an article in the May/June1987issue of fine Woodworking entitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity"when Iwas visiting with him last weekend. The article details testingundertakento determine what finishes are best to protect wood. The article will,I'mafraid, blow a few theories into right field about some of the finishesweuse on cane rods. Does anyone out there in radio land know whether Fine Woodworking hasa homepage or email address where I could get permission to share theinformationthat John had with the rest of us. I would assume that the article iscovered by copyright and I would not want to infringe upon someone'sbusiness. regards, Don from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 1 20:41:58 1997 Subject: Re: Fine Woodworking Don,I believe it's already been done-I've fogotten who did it but there wasquite a thread on it a few months ago. Hank. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Apr 1 21:47:45 1997 Subject: Re: Filing versus pressing nodes In a message dated 97-03-30 21:37:48 EST, you write: I do a little of both. I'd like to hear from others on the subject. Itseems to me that one needn't worry about the node's power fibers-there'snocontinuity through the node anyway.Hank. Hank - I fabricated a radius board (John Bokstrom, Merrit Lake '94) andwiththe node planed flat on the bottom, file for a minimum of node removal.Then, before pressing the node flat, I releive the bottom with half- roundfile to remove at least as much material as the nodal hump represents onthetop. This allows the strip to flatten without crushing. If there is a dipadjacent the node, I remove it prior to flattening the node. To prevent thenode from popping back out too much, I shim the rind side duringflatteningwith .005 brass stock. Would like to improve the process, though, so anysuggestions would be appreciated.Regards,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Apr 1 21:49:45 1997 Subject: Guides/ferrules Just a note concerning a previous posting about the advisabity of placingguides adjacent to ferrules. Just examined an 8-1/2' Granger Aristocrat3-pcand noticed the mid/tip ferrule has guides abutting the ferrule on eachside.The interval space between those two guides was much less than theintervalseither side of it.Richard Tyree from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Apr 1 21:49:58 1997 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fine Woodworking] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------28FF43EB6FFA net server is acting up. Sorry if this duplicates. --------------28FF43EB6FFA Subject: Re: Fine Woodworking Don -Let me guess, you can't keep moisture from re-enering wood when largeseaonal variations drive relative humidity way up there. Just like youcan't keep large wood panels from shrinking in the house in winter - sowe let panels in doors float in grooves and install table tops withslots rather than round holes.Finish on wood furniture lets you wipe up spills before the moisturesoaks in - doesn't form a moisture barrier.I haven't seen the article, just reading between the lines of yourposting.Am I warm? Brian --------------28FF43EB6FFA-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 1 22:00:55 1997 Subject: Re:(2)finishes was Woodworking At 21:41 01/04/97 -0500, Hank wrote:Don,I believe it's already been done- I've fogotten who did it but there wasquite a thread on it a few months ago. Hank. Hank, I know its been done [ a finish discussion] - was thinking about what folksare still doing even after the discussion - was first definitive testing I'dseen on the subject. Wished to share it with others if Fine Woodworkingwillallow posting. regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 1 22:10:38 1997 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fine Woodworking] At 22:54 01/04/97 -0500, Brian wrote:Don -Let me guess, you can't keep moisture from re-enering wood when largeseaonal variations drive relative humidity way up there. Just like youcan't keep large wood panels from shrinking in the house in winter - sowe let panels in doors float in grooves and install table tops withslots rather than round holes.Finish on wood furniture lets you wipe up spills before the moisturesoaks in - doesn't form a moisture barrier.I haven't seen the article, just reading between the lines of yourposting.Am I warm? You aren't only warm - you is red hot!!! The best is that some of the finishes that some of the folks are toutingdon't stop water at all. Look good though. Though some are better thanothers. Hope to post the whole thing if OK by fine Woodworking. Been fishin'? Was down in Southern Alberta last week for a couple of days - did OK -landed a bunch of 'bows. Off to the creek tommorrow. Don Brian from mrj@seanet.com Tue Apr 1 22:54:19 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA16164 for Subject: Re: Form working troubles. brian & michelle creek wrote: Thanks. I stand corrected. Use easy outs on hardened bolts, didn'tthink taps were that much harder! Brian Taps are harder then the Hubs of Hell (whatever THAT means! I have triedto drill them out in the past when I got into trouble and all I did wasget into more trouble. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 23:18:33 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:24:13 EDT Subject: Re: Filing versus pressing nodes Could someone explain what a radius board is? What is this whole process? Hank - I fabricated a radius board (John Bokstrom, Merrit Lake '94) andwiththe node planed flat on the bottom, file for a minimum of node removal.Then, before pressing the node flat, I releive the bottom with half- roundfile to remove at least as much material as the nodal hump represents onthetop. This allows the strip to flatten without crushing. If there is a dipadjacent the node, I remove it prior to flattening the node. To preventthenode from popping back out too much, I shim the rind side duringflatteningwith .005 brass stock. Would like to improve the process, though, so anysuggestions would be appreciated.Regards,RTyree Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 23:22:00 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:27:45 EDT Subject: Just wanted to run this by bigger minds.... I split the top section of a culm today. As a side note...I think I am getting better at splitting...however I would like to know in more detail techniques for splitting the tip section beyond 24. Ummm back to the point. I am going to build the butt section out of the bottom section of the culm. The mid section will be made out of the top section of the culm. The tip section will be made out of the bottom section of the culm. All this to redress several nodes if possible. Any of the minds out there coming to a stop. If so..please speak up.Till tomorrow...Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from bub@harborside.com Tue Apr 1 23:40:21 1997 VAA29706 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:40:14 - Subject: scraper planes does anyboby know where i can get a scraper plane. the stores in my areado not even know what im talking about.thank you for any help you cangive me,Leo in oregon. from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Wed Apr 2 01:22:26 1997 Subject: Orvis winding checks Rodmakers,I am looking for a few (3-4) of the winding checks that Orvis used on their cane rods prior to the eighties. I have several Orvis kit rods that I would like to refinish in the Orvis tradition. Tried the Orvis rodshop, but they no longer have a direct line to the shop. Somebody that doesn't know "diddly squat" answers the phone in VA and says she's never heard of the item. She suggested I could get a printing company that specializes in printing "checks" to print me some, but with out the Orvis logo of course! Would appreciate the help. They were sold in one size only. Raising cane,Ken Smith from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Apr 2 01:39:18 1997 Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:39:04 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: scraper planes On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Leo Rasch wrote: does anyboby know where i can get a scraper plane. the stores in my areado not even know what im talking about.thank you for any help you cangive me,Leo in oregon. You can deal direct with LN via email. I have a link to them from my home page. They respond to enquirys rapidly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from bub@harborside.com Wed Apr 2 03:27:33 1997 BAA08299 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 01:27:30 - Subject: Re: scraper planes Tony Young wrote: On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Leo Rasch wrote: does anyboby know where i can get a scraper plane. the stores in myareado not even know what im talking about.thank you for any help you cangive me,Leo in oregon. You can deal direct with LN via email. I have a link to them from myhomepage. They respond to enquirys rapidly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/thank you tony I will call today and get sent out. from sleach@plessey.co.za Wed Apr 2 06:00:33 1997 13:57:40 +0200 via smap (V3.1) 2 Apr 97 14:06:28 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: Re:Super Swiss Ferrule Mail them tommorrow - going fishing today. Hope you understand. Hi DonGot your drawings to-day. Thanks a lot. I was interested to see that the tabs are not tapered. Is this normally the case ?? Regards Steve LeachPlessey South Africa LtdP.O.Box 30451Tokai 7966South AfricaTel (021) 710 2460fax (021) 710 2692 from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Apr 2 08:25:23 1997 Subject: Re:Super Swiss Ferrule At 14:06 02/04/97 GMT+2, Steve wrote:Mail them tommorrow - going fishing today. Hope you understand. Hi DonGot your drawings to-day. Thanks a lot. I was interested to see that the tabs are not tapered. Is this normally the case ?? Steve,I don't know if I understand the question. The tabs can be tapered in anarrow shape or thinned out to where they join the cane or both. Both theRodon and Classic ferrules the tabs are not tapered or thinned. If you wishto do them yourself - shouldn't take much. British rods usually havetaperedtabs. You're choice. As far as thinning the cane/ferrule junction, I chuckup the ferrule and place the appropraite sized drill bit into the tail stockchuck. Slidding the drill bit into the ferrule gives enough support to spinthe ferrule @ low speeds and thin the end of the ferrule. Makes a goodtransition from ferrule to cane. Hope this helps. Don Regards Steve LeachPlessey South Africa LtdP.O.Box 30451Tokai 7966South AfricaTel (021) 710 2460fax (021) 710 2692 from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Apr 2 09:11:31 1997 SVR4) (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA254393662; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 07:07:42 -0800 Subject: hide glue Please let me clear up some misconceptions about hide glue and in relations to violins in particular. #1 violins are never steamed apartbecause the moisture screws up both the wood (swelling) and the varnish.Violins are taken apart with thin strips of steel wedged in the glue lines and HOT water. #2 the sound post is put in and adjusted through the sound holes with a sound post setter (tool). #3 the working time of hide glue can be extended by just adding a smidge (technical term) more water. Hide glue is the only reversasble glue there is, you have to plane down to fresh wood to reglue with any other glue but with hide gleu all you have to do is soften the glue with either heat or HOT water and add a drop more glue and clamp away. We bought old contact lense cleaners from starvation army (the type that boiled the lenses) and added litle dimmer swithchs,for the temp control, in the cord put water into it and adjusted it till we found 150 degrees and marked it on the dimmer switch. I know that this sounds like I'm advocating using hide glue but the truth of the matter is that I worked with it on a daily bases for 8 years and in a lot of respects it's as good as or better than the modern glues, with the exception of recorcinol which is the best waterproof wood glue there is imho! from Canerods@aol.com Wed Apr 2 09:26:14 1997 Subject: Re: Orvis winding checks In a message dated 97-04-02 03:37:57 EST, you write: Subj: Orvis winding checksDate: 97-04-02 03:37:57 ESTFrom: kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net (Ken & Kim Smith)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Rodmakers,I am looking for a few (3-4) of the winding checks that Orvis used on their cane rods prior to the eighties. I have several Orvis kit rods that I would like to refinish in the Orvis tradition. Tried the Orvis rodshop, but they no longer have a direct line to the shop. Somebody that doesn't know "diddly squat" answers the phone in VA and says she's never heardof the item. She suggested I could get a printing company that specializes in printing "checks" to print me some, but with out the Orvis logo of course! Would appreciate the help. They were sold in one size only. Raising cane,Ken Smith Ken, I don't know if they have any winding checks, but I'd give Orvis a secondcall. Ask to be transfered to the rod shop. If you've got an Orvis rod, witha S/N, tell them you're trying to find out some information about it. Thisshould get you to the rod department. Then hit this person up with yourwinding check need. Or call and ask for Lononi Synder. I had a replacement rod tube made up forone of my Orvis rods - waited forever. I wrote down Lononi's name duringoneof my "where-is-it-calls". I think she was the person that had theanswers.Or a good place to start - should get you past the "airhead" department. Don B. PS - Do Orvis cane blanks have S/N's? I recently was asked this questionanddidn't know the answer. from Canerods@aol.com Wed Apr 2 09:27:45 1997 Subject: Re: lost messages In a message dated 97-04-01 21:11:41 EST, you write: Subj: lost messagesDate: 97-04-01 21:11:41 ESTFrom: flyfisher@bbs.cmix.comSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I'm setting up my AOL account with an email address just for readingthis list- serv. I'm also still subscribed to the rodbuilders on my CMIXaccount and I've noticed not all messages are arriving on AOL. BesidesAOL being all screwed- up is there any other reasons that this couldhappen? Thank, Don Burns Ask and you shall receive -- this morning the missing rodmaker list- servmessages arrived. AOL must've been overloaded again. Sigh! It would beniceto see the original message before 2 or 3 replies. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. Don Burns from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Apr 2 10:49:32 1997 Subject: Re: ARAI RO>On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Ken Kimmel wrote: RO>> Does anyone know anything about ARAI flyrods manufactured inJapanRO>> The one I have is about 45 Years old.RO>> Its a 7 1/2' three section I think 6wt.RO>> History? Value? Where can I get more info?RO>> --- -------------------------------------------------------RO>> KEN KIMMELRO>> HYDRIL CANADIAN CO., LTDRO>> 2307 8 ST.RO>> NISKU, ALBERTARO>> T9E 7Z3RO>> PH. 403 955 2045RO>> FAX 403 955 7627RO>>RO>>RO>I don't know about this specific brand but I was recently talking to aRO>fellow who made rods in his younger days in the UK and went to JapanRO>after WWII and bought some "split" cane rods. He told me they lookedRO>split but were only planed from a solid piece. You could tell by lookingRO>down the ferrules and seeing if there are splines. Of course not allwereRO>like this but it seems they existed. The first cane rod I ever cast wasRO>Japaneese and it was so poor a casting device I couldn't believeanybodyRO>was bothering with them, I now think this rod may have been one ofthese.RO>It came in a rather nice looking blue velvet hard case and had all theRO>looks of a good rod until you tried it.RO>I'll say again though that I'm sure these hex shaped solid rods were notRO>the rule. RO>Tony RO>/***********************************************************************/RO>Tony YoungRO>http://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlRO>The Australian connectionRO>/***********************************************************************/ I don't know anything about your brand rod - I own a "Mayflower" canerod that I bought in Japan back in 1970. Mine's a split cane rod of generally poor quality. Has very cheapchrome- plated brass ferrules and very visible glue lines (it is splitcane). Looks to have been sawn (?), glued and then had the nodes fileddown? It with a wood box with some flies and misc. stuff. This rod also converts to a spinning rod by pulling the grip off thebutt and reversing it and using a spinning tip section. Value is about $25 - $50 unless someone wants to hang it on the wall andis willing to pay more. Please! I didn't know any better at the time - just a dumb (drunk) swabbie onshore leave. At least the japanese peddler used barbless hooks on me. Don Burns from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Wed Apr 2 10:57:05 1997 JAA12255 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:56:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Form working troubles. To all...... Thanks for all the useful suggestions. A local machinist made an attempt with tap extractors. He failed. I will decide which method to try next. Many suggestions sound useful I will try a carbide tip and Dremel. Pretend I am a dentist. If that doesn't work, the punch success/failure.... Thanks again! -Paul(Kalispell, MT) from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Wed Apr 2 11:48:47 1997 with BSMTP id 1975; Wed, 02 Apr 97 12:47:34 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 0380; Wed, 2 Apr1997 12:47:34 -0500Subject: Re: scraper planes Leo, You can order them from Woodcraft or directly from Lie-Nielsen if that is the type you want. Theirnumber is 888 751-2106. I think the model no. is212, but I believe they only have one scraper planeanyway. Good luck, Bob. from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Apr 2 11:54:51 1997 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fine Woodworking] Don - Wife & Children going to her folks for spring break, leaving Friday. Hope to exercise some steelhead this weekend. Brian from wishbone@headwaters.com Wed Apr 2 13:11:57 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Hello..ReSubscribed Hello All! Some time ago, I unsubscribed from the list, due to other committments, and certainly not because of anything with respect to the RodMakers List. I have re subscribed, and am looking forward to more productive and interesting discussions. I hope that I will be able to offer something usefull on ocassion! Regards,Ian ScottIan H. ScottWishbone Custom Rods2 Henry St., R.R. #1Grand Valley, Ont.L0N 1G0 519-928-2906http://www.absolute- sway.com/wishbone "It is in men as in soils, where sometimes thereis a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."Jonothan Swift IAW from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed Apr 2 13:38:43 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10541 for; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 14:38:41 -0500 Subject: Differential screws Hello, I'm looking for a source for the screws that Garrison used in his forms. Any help?? ThanksTom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Apr 2 15:55:17 1997 Subject: Re: Differential screws In a message dated 4/2/97 8:55:43 PM, you wrote: Tom - This would be a custom item as far as I know. You would have tohavethem made by a machine shop, or make them yourself if you have access toalathe. They would actually be a simple project. Many of us have come totheconclusion, however, that the two screw Push- Pull mechanism is just asaccurate, and much less tricky to set up. I'd suggest you consider it. - -TomS from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Wed Apr 2 16:20:15 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA01950 for ; Subject: RE: Re: Orvis winding checks Don,I'll try Orvis again, thanks alot. Orvis did apply a serial number to theirblanks, but most of the kit rods I've seen have it missing. I think peoplewere taking it off. I have Orvis catalogs from the 60's and 70's and thephotos of their kit blanks clearly were serial numbered. Unless they justgrabbed some rod blanks for the photo session. Ken Smith from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 2 17:13:49 1997 ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Orvis winding checks kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net wrote: Don,I'll try Orvis again, thanks alot. Orvis did apply a serial number totheirblanks, but most of the kit rods I've seen have it missing. I think peoplewere taking it off. I have Orvis catalogs from the 60's and 70's and thephotos of their kit blanks clearly were serial numbered. Unless they justgrabbed some rod blanks for the photo session. Ken Smith I don't want to throw 'cold water' on this but after multilple attemptsto get through to Orvis -- even having a dealer try -- I gave up. Gloria Jorden even tried. Next step was to get some made at CSE inVermont but he did not seem too interested. Gave up on him after half adozen or so phone calls and no response. I'd also be curious to know if these are available even though it'safter the fact. I did without. FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732- 2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed Apr 2 17:14:37 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA27126 for; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 18:14:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Differential screws Tom S. conclusion, however, that the two screw Push- Pull mechanism is justasaccurate, and much less tricky to set up. I'd suggest you consider it. -- Tom I agree, my forms have push me pull me, I'm looking for them here at work. They would be for a laser alignment for patient positioning during radiotherapy, the alignment is tricky and precise ( from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Apr 2 17:39:27 1997 Subject: Re: Orvis winding checks RO>kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net wrote:RO>>RO>> Don,RO>> I'll try Orvis again, thanks alot. Orvis did apply a serial number toRO>> blanks, but most of the kit rods I've seen have it missing. I thinkpeopleRO>>RO>> Ken Smith RO>I don't want to throw 'cold water' on this but after multilple attemptsRO>to get through to Orvis -- even having a dealer try -- I gave up.RO>Gloria Jorden even tried. Next step was to get some made at CSE inRO>Vermont but he did not seem too interested. Gave up on him after halfaRO>dozen or so phone calls and no response. RO>I'd also be curious to know if these are available even though it'sRO>after the fact. I did without. RO> FREDRO>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~RO>FRED BOHLS, CFPRO>Bohls Financial ServicesRO>P. O. Box 3303RO>Camp Hill, PA 17011- 9698RO>Office: (717) 732-2448RO>Fax: (717) 732-2414RO>e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com Ken, Thanks for the feedback on the S/N's. Fred, I've had a rod restored by Orvis (needed tube too) without much trouble- just took 5 months or so. I also ordered a tube and bag for a secondrod and again tooks months and 2 or 3 attempts to get the order places.Might have been my fault somewhat - I tried to add to the other order.But, in general, if not ordering a catalog item - be prepared to ask tobe be transfered to someone in the rod shop. And then a long wait. The rod work was fine, OBTW. Cheap too. Don Burns from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 2 17:52:50 1997 ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Orvis winding checks Fred, I've had a rod restored by Orvis (needed tube too) without much trouble- just took 5 months or so. I also ordered a tube and bag for a secondrod and again tooks months and 2 or 3 attempts to get the order places.Might have been my fault somewhat - I tried to add to the other order.But, in general, if not ordering a catalog item - be prepared to ask tobe be transfered to someone in the rod shop. And then a long wait. The rod work was fine, OBTW. Cheap too. Don Burns -- Been There -- Done That ..... Supposedly I was talking with the 'head man' in the rod shop. All ofus, Gloria Jorden, the dealer from Yellow Breeches outfitters who wasther in person, and myself were told that they were not available --PERIOD. Was most disappointed but this was after 3-4 months of effort. Maube ifI were to have paid them to do the work rather than do it myself I'd ofhad better results. FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732- 2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:02:36 1997 Subject: Re: Scraping.... Jon -A few comments that might help -1) The blade must be square in the plane - the point of the blade mustalign with the sole. Early on I discovered tat I had a tendency to rock theplane as I moved it forward. To help stablize the plane I started to touchmyfingers on the forms using a loose grip on the plane itself. Then to seevisually if the plane was aligned with the forms properly I placed a mirrorat the end of the workbench and adjusted it so I could watch the planeduringthe pass - learning the location of my fingers on the forms as a guideline.2) You will rock the plane and you will nick the forms with the plane -infact the metal of the forms may plane easier than the bamboo. A lightfiling with correct the forms - a sharpening will correct the blade. As youbecome more familiar with planing the nicks become fewer and fewer.3) even with the scraper headed in the right direction you will need tokeep it clean of shavings. Any shaving can wrap around the edge of thebladewhich will insulate the blade from cutting.4) Keep the froms clean of shavings and debris - anything under thestrips will elevate them up and there is a chance that you will cut themundersize. keep the v clean.5) The inter nodal sweeps will relax during heat treating or neutralizewhen glued (with the 2x2x2 staggering). The more material removed thelessresistant the sweeps become. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:03:03 1997 Subject: 6' 6" - OOPs Yes - there is a mistake - the taper on page 222 IS a 3 weight (tipfactor 1.536531) and the taper on page 223 IS a 4 weight (tip factor1.705867) - the action is a Garrisonish that I helped Wes Cooper create -RonBarch has one that I made for him. FYI - Ron's rod is the only example of ablonde rod I made outside of my collection. The concept for the rod was tocreate a midge rod with a little more speed than the #193. Caught in the Act Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:04:00 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` Jon -As you can see - there are differing viewpoints - from the sound of ityou are not getting the node warm enough before pressing. The heat gunshouldbe set on speed #2 or high heat and when vised the node should displaceenough so that the bamboo conforms to the vise jaws their entire length. Ilost your phone number at the dorm please e-mail off the list?? John Z -We talked about this at Somerset - how many rods are you going tomakenext years???? Way - Way too much time spent around those VOCs in thebasement. Perhaps us node lovers should have a support group - MEN(MakersEuphoric of Nodes). We could use the catch phrase -"Pressed Is Pretty" -Your turn Chris ! Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:04:20 1997 Subject: Split & Vise Three days ago I wrote this to the group and thought that I sent it -well somewhere in oblivion AOL did it to me again The proper splitting of the culm and the viseing of the nodes go handin hand. So a review.Over the years I have found that the splitting technique I use is easyto dobut hard to explain. The first split,halving the culm, and second split,splitting to sixths, is straight forward. Once completed each sixth of theculm is about 1" in width. The next step is to split each in half again tomake twelve. It is here that I lose folks. The split is initiated with a tapon the froe. But then the procedure changes and the split is finished bytwisting the froe to move the split downward. For safety reverse the froeorplace the backedge into the split. The width and the twist do the splittingso there is no need for the leading sharp edge. And if the froe get awayfromyou it is less destructive to hit your hand with a blunt edge rather thanthesharp edge.Now I have explained that the fat side of those being formed need tobeflexed against the blade to make the split walk to that side. This is whereIloose most. An example of the needed flexing would be to hold a woodendowelrod in both hands with a distance of a foot or so between them. Now twistyour hands so that the thumbs move outward to form a arch in the dowelrod.This is the flex that is needed to move the split toward you. Like wisetwistthe little fingers outward to form an inward arch. This is the motion usedtomove the split away from you. In actuality you are only using one hand todothe flexing when splitting. The other is holding the froe and remainsstationary to force the pieces to flex.This technique is used to split from 6 - 12 and from 12 - 24 pieces.Needless to say the second splitting, from 12 - 24, becomes easier to flexdue to the reduction in size. Done successfully you will end up with stripsthat are uniform in size, about 1/4" throughout their length.The key element of the above splitting is that each will require aboutthesame omount of heat when softening them to flatten the nodes. The morevariation the less successful you will be at flattening the nodes. John Z - As you and Chris were discussing this issue the other night -Chris was suggesting support groups I came up with a catchy one tosupportour side of the issue - - MEN - (Makers Euphoric of Nodes). Hope You likeit Chris Wayne It seems that I'm caught in communication HELL here with AOL. I'dswitchbut too many know the address. from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:04:53 1997 Subject: Re: varnish Mark -I hope that other will reply as well - but I will strongly recommendthat you use either a poly or spar varnish. A tung oil finish even theformby's with a little varnish added is more work to layer it up enough.Painter's Supply ( Grand Rapids) can UPS - the good stuff - either (77-5)poly or (77-10) spar. A quart will cost about $15 delivered / think of it asa $15 gamble. Just try it on a 1/4" maple dowel and see what you think.Youremind me of Carlos - for over a year he complained of his finish and thenIfinally sent him a quart - of the good stuff - After that he quitcomplaining. Or if you like I have a whole shelf of finishes that you can tryone by one. I hope that others are following this series of posts - our nature is tothink that a dipping system is just one more thing - you know a thing thattakes time and is just another hassle to set up and use. Do us a favor andtry it and report back once you have the finish on the rod - let us know ifit was worth the hassle??? Wayne from david_j_rogers@ccm2.hf.intel.com Wed Apr 2 19:43:29 1997 mailbag.jf.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA26165 for Subject: Herter's book Does anyone know where I can get a copy of George Leonard Herter's"Professional Split-Bamboo rod Building Manual and Manufacturer'sGuide?" Please advise,David Rogers from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Apr 2 20:16:26 1997 Subject: Re: Differential screws In a message dated 97-04-02 18:02:48 EST, you write: Tom - This would be a custom item as far as I know. You would have tohavethem made by a machine shop, or make them yourself if you have accessto alathe. They would actually be a simple project. Many of us have come totheconclusion, however, that the two screw Push- Pull mechanism is just asaccurate, and much less tricky to set up. I'd suggest you consider it. - -TomS Tom - Of interest to me is how Bill Waara approached the subject. Heinformed me that his forms have push/pull screws, with one inside theother.Not sure, but probably the pull inside the push. Ingenious, as is a numberof his innovations, such as splicing block, v-block, fluted hollower, etc.RTyree from bokstrom@axionet.com Wed Apr 2 20:36:48 1997 Subject: Re: Herter's book ----------From: David J Rogers Subject: Herter's bookDate: Wednesday, April 02, 1997 5:43 PM Does anyone know where I can get a copy of George Leonard Herter's"Professional Split-Bamboo rod Building Manual and Manufacturer'sGuide?" Please advise,David Rogers I have a copy and am willing to sell. What would be a fair price?John Bokstrom from Canerods@aol.com Wed Apr 2 21:50:28 1997 Subject: Re: Hello..ReSubscribed Welcome back. Don B. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Apr 2 22:40:31 1997 Subject: Re: Differential screws Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG wrote: Hello, I'm looking for a source for the screws that Garrison used in hisforms. Any help?? ThanksTom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering One has to make them.John from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Apr 3 06:13:00 1997 Subject: Ferrules Has anyone had experience with the NS ferrules from Angler's Workshop ?? Karl Hube from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Thu Apr 3 06:44:52 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA05211 for; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 07:44:49 -0500 Subject: Re: varnish Hello all,Quite a while ago I surveyed this list regarding finishes and methods. Now that i think of it, I never formalized the results. The majority of responses was that dipping was the hot set up. There were a few tung oil, and a couple of brushers. I whipped up my dip tank this past weekend. I used 1 1/2" PVC, takes two quarts to fill, and I'm using P&L VARMOR. I have an old motor out of the linear accelerator that raises the rod at about 4 sec/inch. The last couple of nights I've been dipping two of my blanks and a couple of old project rods. It works great, wouldn't try finishing any other way. Smooth finish with almost no effort.Things I would do different, I'd probably go a little bigger than 1 1/2 PVC. I chose it because 2 quarts is cheaper than 1 gallon. But after dipping a bunch of rods, I now have to go buy more. At $13 per quart and $39 per gallon, it seems I didn't save any money. If you are going to more than one rod, dipping is the way to go, IMHO. Just my $0.02. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Apr 3 07:24:30 1997 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: varnish Because of height limitations in my workshop, dipping won't work for meright now. The method I used was where you take a short 2 inch diametertube, cover the bottom with the finger of a latex glove, poke a very smallhole in the middle of the latex. Then with the rod suspended, slide thetube up to the top of the rod, fill almost to the top with varnish, andthen slowly slide the tube back down the rod. The rod gets coated withvarnish similar to dipping. My results turned out pretty good. I had trouble getting the right speedto move the tube down the rod so I would eliminate drips or runs. Can't remember if I saw this method discussed previously on this list or in thePlaning Form.. (the old mind is slipping..) -Jerryballard@zen.wes.army.mil from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Apr 3 07:45:30 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrules Karl Hube wrote: Has anyone had experience with the NS ferrules from Angler's Workshop?? Karl Hube They're Baily Woods' ferrules.John from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Thu Apr 3 07:55:21 1997 GAA15627; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 06:55:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Ferrules Has anyone had experience with the NS ferrules from Angler's Workshop?? Karl Hube Karl, I have been using their ferules from the start (only on 4th rod) and theyseem fine to me. But take this for what it's worth since I am new and donot have anything to compare them with. If any one has a more informedanswer on these ferules I would also appreciate it. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Apr 3 08:07:56 1997 Subject: Binding thread Someone was asking a few weeks ago about alternatives in binding thread.Ijust got some interesting stuff from American Science and Surplus(847-982-0870). It is suture cotton thread, size 1. ( stock #3985 ). Itcomes on 100 yard rolls, 2 dollars for two, $1.50 if you buy over ten. Theyhave about 150 spools left. The stuff is government surplus and appears tobewell made. It has a very smooth finish and is very strong for cotton. Itclaims to be uncoated and not sterilized. I wonder when was the last timecotton was used for sutures? -- Tom from DANNUGENT@aol.com Thu Apr 3 08:21:28 1997 Subject: Re: Form working troubles. PAULSave yourself alot of trouble use the punch and if that makes the hole tobigthen you will have to drill and tap on the other half of the form.If you don't whant to do that i can EDM it out for you for $5 OK.I had to say $5 because if i did it for free you know i would not rest. DAN from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Apr 3 09:06:32 1997 Subject: Re: varnish Tom seez... Quite a while ago I surveyed this list regarding finishes and methods. Now that i think of it, I never formalized the results. The majority of responses was that dipping was the hot set up. There were a few tung oil, and a couple of brushers. I whipped up my dip tank this past weekend. I used 1 1/2" PVC, takes two quarts to fill, and I'm using P&L VARMOR. I have an old motor out of the linear accelerator that raises the rod...^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wow, that must make for a pretty fast rod!!! :-) Mike - a little slow - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Apr 3 09:12:55 1997 SVR4) PST Subject: Hollow rod patents Does anyone have copies of the Stoner (#2,537,488) and Powell(#1,932,986) patents on hollow rods? If so, could you fax to me at (619) 687 8135? Many thanks. Thomas PindelskiThomasP@nacm.com from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Thu Apr 3 09:23:46 1997 Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 09:24:30 -0600 Subject: RE: Hollow rod patents 4.0.994.63 Tom,I have them.Our Fax machine sucks. I will mail them to youtomorrow if you can wait.I will need your address too. Olaf Borge, Systems Programmer/Basic SystemsCNO/AISSUniversity of Illinois728 West Roosevelt RoadChicago, Illinois 60607-7007Phone: (312)996-5212 INTERNET: oborge@uic.edu ----------From: Thomas Pindelski[SMTP:ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com]Sent: Thursday, April 03, 1997 9:09 AM Subject: Hollow rod patents Does anyone have copies of the Stoner (#2,537,488) and Powell(#1,932,986) patents on hollow rods? If so, could you fax to me at (619) 687 8135? Many thanks. Thomas PindelskiThomasP@nacm.com from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Thu Apr 3 10:51:10 1997 Subject: Orvis winding checks Looking for Orvis winding checks used on Orvis cane rods till mid 80's. Need at least 3. I am restoring some Orvis kit rods in the Orvis tradition. Would appreciate anybodies help. Orvis no longer carries this item. from m.boretti@agonet.it Thu Apr 3 11:43:04 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA19884 for; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:46:18 -0100 Please send me the method for re-subscribe to the list.Sincerely,Marco Boretti. P.S. Please the correct E-mail address from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 3 14:27:56 1997 Subject: Re: Filing versus pressing nodes Richard,I ,too, file the pith side so the node and rest of strip are the sameprofile-I'll have to try the shim bit.Thanks,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 3 14:28:07 1997 Subject: Re: Re:(2)finishes was Woodworking Don,I believe it's already been posted before Fine Woodworking publishedit- the archives should have it.Hank. from tball@sunny.ncmc.cc.mi.us Thu Apr 3 14:31:25 1997 sunny.ncmc.cc.mi.us (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00613 for Subject: Re: Cork rings without holes Frank Stetzer wrote: Does anyone know a source for cork rings without the centerbored hole? I want to experiment with some non-round gripshapes.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.Frank, you may want to try the C & D Trading Inc. out of Minnesota.Their Email address is ckishish@isd.net Good luck Tom B.- - [Dial-In Configuration]SiteName=ISP NameName=Password=InternationalNumber=falsePhone= [IP]DNSAddress=0.0.0.0Enabled=YesIPAddress=0.0.0.0DomainName=DNSAddress2=0.0.0.0 [NetBEUI]Enabled=No [IPX]Enabled=No [Security]SecurityDevice=NoSecurityEcho=No [Services]SMTP_Server=NNTP_Server=POP_Server= [Script]ScriptEnabled=NoScriptTerminal=NoScriptFileName=ISP.SCPScriptRecord=NoScriptRecordTimeout=30 from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Thu Apr 3 14:38:17 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA18977 for ; Subject: RE: Orvis winding checks Guys,Orvis still has the original winding checks on hand that was used ontheir cane rods! They come in NS and aluminum and are in various sizes per.xxx. Talked to Pat Nuener and rod shop. NS are $10.50 per item, Pat ischecking on aluminum price. Thanks for the prompting to "crack" the Orvistelephone answering wall.2nd question. I hear that Gloria Jordan is making the original Wes Jordanreel seats. Are these the same as on the early Orvis canes?What is the basic price for the seat with walnut insert and does it includethe cork ring check? Also for anyone who cares, REC makes the tapered cigar grip that wasused on so many early orvis canes. They call it the "standard" and comesin several lengths. I've ordered 2 in the past and they matched the originalgrips on my rods down to the tee. Raising cane,Ken Smith from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Thu Apr 3 14:40:43 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA19220 for ; Subject: RE: Re: Cork rings without holes Try looking at internet page www.isd.net/ckishish. They are in Minnesotaand are a source of high quality (AAAAA, Flor) cork. Raising caneKen from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Apr 3 14:46:43 1997 Subject: Re: Herter's book In a message dated 97-04-02 21:05:23 EST, you write: Does anyone know where I can get a copy of George Leonard Herter's"Professional Split-Bamboo rod Building Manual and Manufacturer'sGuide?" David - Try The Anglers Art, POBox 148, Plainfield, PA 17081 - Phone800- 848-1020, Fax 717-243-8603. If they do not have it, they will putiton their want list and eventually come across one for you. Note: do notgettoo hung up on the title. My copy has a totally different title, tho most ofthe book is devoted to rodmaking, the majority of which is bamboo. Has aninteresting section of tapers.Regards and good luck,RTyree from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Thu Apr 3 15:18:48 1997 QAA04919 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 16:18:40 - Subject: Re: Herter's book In a message dated 97-04-02 21:05:23 EST, you write: Does anyone know where I can get a copy of George Leonard Herter's"Professional Split-Bamboo rod Building Manual and Manufacturer'sGuide?" You might try: Alan Wigton, Little Journeys Bookshop, 376 Park Ave. W., , Mansfield, OH44906 Tel: (419) 522-2389 Fax: (419) 522-6019 Email Address:alanewig@richnet.net They did have a copy but it seemed a little pricey to me @$100. Later,Johnny-------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from tlz112@psu.edu Thu Apr 3 17:55:13 1997 f01n05.cac.psu.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA73078 for; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:55:24 -0500 ARCHIVES from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 3 17:55:16 1997 TAA11703 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 19:03:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` Jon -As you can see - there are differing viewpoints - from the sound of ityou are not getting the node warm enough before pressing. The heat gunshouldbe set on speed #2 or high heat and when vised the node should displaceenough so that the bamboo conforms to the vise jaws their entire length.Ilost your phone number at the dorm please e-mail off the list?? John Z -We talked about this at Somerset - how many rods are you going tomakenext years???? Way - Way too much time spent around those VOCs in thebasement. Perhaps us node lovers should have a support group - MEN(MakersEuphoric of Nodes). We could use the catch phrase -"Pressed Is Pretty" -Your turn Chris ! Wayne Wayne I think nodes speak for themselves. But I really think youguys should have a national day of attonement - Where you go around saying "Forgive me Lord for I have sinned and now I mustdo nodes!" Regards Chris from tlz112@psu.edu Thu Apr 3 17:59:29 1997 f01n05.cac.psu.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA284422 for; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:59:41 -0500 How do I get a list of the topics being talked about or into the archives? from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 3 18:12:33 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` In a message dated 97-04-03 19:02:39 EST, you write: I don't know what the big deal about nodes is.Sure they are a little bit harder to plane and keep fromchipping, but they are not that bad. I think cutting themout and splicing is a lot more work than planing withthem in. Am I missing something here? Darryl Hayashida from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Apr 3 18:13:35 1997 Subject: Re: 6' 6" - OOPs Wayne, Which rods? The 2 piece or the 3 piece on pages 222 and 223? I do notremember which was which. Thanks, Mark ColeLeadville, COHouston, TX from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 3 18:15:42 1997 Subject: Taper Design In a previous post I mentioned in passing aboutthe roll casting "hinge" that I first heard about fromWayne Cattanach. I don't recall if it's in his book. I have received a few inquiries by private email, so I thought I might post my answer to the list. The hinge is a small area of increased flexiblity(higher stress for the stress curve guys) about18 to 20 inches in front of the handle. What this does is gives the line a lift up off the water rightat the initial stroke of the rod when doing a rollcast. The hinge works! I recently finished a6' 2" 3 wt. 3 piece which I didn't build in a hinge,and this rod doesn't roll cast worth beans. Therod previous to this one was a 7' 0" 4 wt 2 pieceand since I was following Wayne's taper, the hingewas in there. This rod roll casts effortlessly. Another design idea I was trying with the 6' 2"was putting the highest stress as close to the tipas possible to see if the rod wold throw a tighterloop. I can report that this idea works also. It'svery hard not to cast with a tight loop with thisrod. This would be bad if you were trying to makea wet fly or nymphing rod and you needed to useweight on your line, and you need to cast a widerloop. If you were wondering why I would make a 6' 2"rod a three piece, it's because each section is25 inches long and the rod fits in a backpack. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 3 18:41:51 1997 Fri, 4 Apr 1997 08:41:33 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Cork rings without holes On Thu, 3 Apr 1997 kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net wrote: Try looking at internet page www.isd.net/ckishish. They are inMinnesota and are a source of high quality (AAAAA, Flor) cork. Raising caneKen I've got some cork and handles from C&D Trading and it all seems prettygood.They also have a lot of recipies for the ones you don't toss back. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 3 19:14:01 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` To nodes & nodeless ones,I've done it both ways and figure it's 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen the other,except the nodeless of the same taper seems stiffer.Hank. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 3 20:04:43 1997 VAA13403 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:12:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` In a message dated 97-04-03 19:02:39 EST, you write: guys should have a national day of attonement - Where you go around saying "Forgive me Lord for I have sinned and now I mustdo nodes!" I don't know what the big deal about nodes is.Sure they are a little bit harder to plane and keep fromchipping, but they are not that bad. I think cutting themout and splicing is a lot more work than planing withthem in. Am I missing something here? Darryl Hayashida Darryl Yes you are - I know that you think it is morework but actually there is less work in the long run - ponder that Regards Chris from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Apr 3 21:19:47 1997 Subject: Re: varnish You have a cyclotron motor in your dip finisher?? Way Cool!! Brian from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 3 22:30:44 1997 Subject: Re: 6' 6" - OOPs Mark -The layout of the tapers in the book is this - each page represents a rod(line weight and character) the 2 piece and 3 piece listing are of the samedesign only a different number of pieces Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 3 22:31:08 1997 Subject: A GrayRock Moment Over the past couple of weeks I have gotten several phone callsconcerning Grayrock 97. The what, where, and when of it. choice - 517 - 348 - 5405. There are supposted to be special rates for thegroup.The Official OverviewThursday night (6-19) - an arrivial picnic at Whispering Pines - CountyRoad #612 - On the Manistee River. Picnic social - start of river boatfloatinto the night as required. In case of rain the picnic will be at TheClubhouse.Friday (9 - 5) presentations - discussion groups - demos - rod casting.Attendee responsable for their own lunch - Spikes? (6 - ?) pizza party atTheClubhouse - social - beer tasting - fly tying demos - whatever the groupwants.Saturday (9 - 4) more of the same. *Notice - registration fee for the above (including food for picnic & pizza)is $20 - You need not pre register but it will make it easier if there is an Ave -Casnovia, MI 49318 - - Questions Call 616 - 675 - 5894 (evenings - Ihave areal job) Saturday (5- 12?) The Trout Bum BBQ - this is a group social event - therodmakers and the Compuserve FF group - Lots of food and social - PlusSporting Flies and other surprise events. Steve Southard and Vic Edwardsareco - hosts. The admission isn't set yet - but is due out soon. The cost forthis event is above that of the registration for the get together. OK - The agenda is up to those that are attending. In the past years thepresentations have run the gambit. The ratio of new comers to experiencedmakers is about 30/70. Many should be attending for the first time and arelooking for entry level info..... VOLUNTEERS NEEDED. I will be bringing a complete set of tools - including diamond sharpeningstones. Chris B - nodeless tools & constructionBill W - Tooling and historyRichard T - Hex cork check tool useSharp - o - rama Several stations**** for this - if anyone uses a different technique can youbring the needed equipment and suchFinish Round Table Discussion - Perhaps Reed can Chair the panelHands on stations -Harold & Eileen DemarestLuis Marden ??The reason for the ?? - Luis is having a bit of health concerns andas of last conversation he didn't know if he is going to make it - BelievemeI am going to do my best to encourage Luis to attend.If anyone has any comments or ideas on either what they want to see or doplease contact me here - ***** remember the success of any event likethis isthe willingness of those that attend. Please e-mail ****THEN*****Several of the group are coming early to do some fishing or what ever.The early start is the weekend of Father's day. For those that haven't beento a get together before PLEASE feel welcome to come early if you like.Fromwhat I've seen is that the group is friendly to newcomers. As I mentionedearlier I will have a complete set of tools and some scrap culms and therewill be time to do hands on things. BAMBOOIf there is interest Harold and Eileen will have Bamboo available - splita bundle or what ever. Let me know the Interest. Well it closer than you thinkWayne from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 4 00:26:17 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` In a message dated 97-04-03 20:42:25 EST, you write: Well, now I am confused. A node is stiffer than the nodelesssections between. When I bend a strip the nodes stay straighterthan the sections between the nodes. How can cutting out thestiffer sections of a strip make it stiffer? Unless the splice isactually stiffer than a node.... Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 4 00:30:42 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` In a message dated 97-04-03 21:29:56 EST, you write: I can't say for sure since I never made a nodeless rod, but Ithink I will stick to what works for me. Darryl Hayashida from mrj@seanet.com Fri Apr 4 00:51:16 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA21603 for Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-04-03 20:42:25 EST, you write: I've done it both ways and figure it's 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen the other,except the nodeless of the same taper seems stiffer.Hank. Well, now I am confused. A node is stiffer than the nodelesssections between. When I bend a strip the nodes stay straighterthan the sections between the nodes. How can cutting out thestiffer sections of a strip make it stiffer? Unless the splice isactually stiffer than a node.... Darryl HayashidaDarryl, Maybe it is that the node is denser than the regular fibers.that would make it heavier and add more mass to the rod. removing thiswould probably lighten the rod a bit. If the rod was a little lighter I think. This is conjecture and speculation on my part here, but I likeit. from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Fri Apr 4 02:31:36 1997 (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) KAA20345; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:31:32 +0200 09:31:31 +0100 Subject: Shops in St. Francisco Hello I will be, for business purpose, one week in Silicon Valley ( St. Francisco )Can you please recommend me some good FF shops and why not a goodplace to flyfishing ;-) Thanks Angel -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 4 06:30:34 1997 ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Fly Fishing List Serve Subject: HARRISBURG FLY FISHERS --Day in Carlisle Just a remindeer that tomorrow, April 5, is the 50th anniversery meetingof the Harrisburg Fly Fishers. Big day planned at the EmbersConvenbtion Center in Carlisle. It will start with Leon Chandler'spresentation @ 10:00am. Then at 11:00am there will be fly tyers,seminars, speakers, demonstrations, rod builders - both cane and'plastic', authors, etc. until 5:00pm. Lots of things happening -- ALLAT NO COST. The whole convention center is occupied. Stag cash bar anddinner @ 5:00pm until??? Should be quite a day. It is also being coordinated with Pennsylvania State Councel of TUmeeting that day at the Embers. FRED ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732- 2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Apr 4 07:30:20 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-04-03 20:42:25 EST, you write: I've done it both ways and figure it's 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen the other,except the nodeless of the same taper seems stiffer.Hank. Well, now I am confused. A node is stiffer than the nodelesssections between. When I bend a strip the nodes stay straighterthan the sections between the nodes. How can cutting out thestiffer sections of a strip make it stiffer? Unless the splice isactually stiffer than a node.... Darryl Hayashida DarrylI have often thought that. Could it not be the geometry of the splices that cahanges the apparent stiffness of the rod?John from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 4 08:06:33 1997 Subject: nodes vs nodeless I also am mystified as to why a nodeless rod should be stiffer, but I thinkChris has said that in the past, and now Hank. Could the extra glue lines bea factor?-------Tom from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 4 08:26:56 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA22934 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: I also am mystified as to why a nodeless rod should be stiffer, but IthinkChris has said that in the past, and now Hank. Could the extra glue linesbea factor?-------Tom Perhaps the node itself is more flexible than the strip between nodes.Thus, there would be slightly more flexing at a rod station thatcontained a node. Possible? Best regards,Ed Estlow from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 4 09:15:44 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless In a message dated 4/4/97 3:01:08 PM, you wrote: Ed - I can't say for sure, but in general my observations agree withDarryl's. In moderate bend testing the node seems stiffer to me. In anextreme bend, I would expect the node to be brittle and snap first, but Idon't do much destructive testing.-- Tom from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 4 14:56:14 1997 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA17878 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/4/97 3:01:08 PM, you wrote: Thus, there would be slightly more flexing at a rod station thatcontained a node. Possible?>> Ed - I can't say for sure, but in general my observations agree withDarryl's. In moderate bend testing the node seems stiffer to me. In anextreme bend, I would expect the node to be brittle and snap first, but Idon't do much destructive testing.-- Tom Tom, I read Darryl's response AFTER I had sent mine - figured I'd stuck myfoot in my mouth. I'm new to bamboo and was responding in a speculativesense from my knowledge of structural mechanics. You are right on with stiffness implying brittleness, which in turnimplies quicker fracture. And I'm sure none of us want to do too muchdestructive testing! However, one way to quantify, culm by culm, howbamboo would perform would be to make up a test piece, say a foot longand of constant cross section, and put it through a controlled series oftests. Perhaps one could develop a method of predicting how a rod made from that particular culm would perform. The test piece hopefullywouldn't take so much material that a rod couldn't be built from thatculm. Perhaps the extra glue lines, running on the bias in a nodeless rod doincrease stiffness. A few weeks ago I mentioned to someone how much funit would be to instrument a rod with strain gages and read in real timewhat the stresses and strains were in a rod as it was cast. This wouldbe easily done but, to paraphrase from my car racing days, knowledgecosts money son, how much do you want to know? All food for thought. Best regards, Ed Estlow from russett@bcn.net Fri Apr 4 17:48:09 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA01479 for Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: PENPAL virus] tyunker@tahiti.netreach.net, andyf@bcn.net, Cmj75@aol.com,ARTURO1977@aol.com, Wilskart@aol.com,jennifer.s.kapala@cleve.frb.org,grvs07a@prodigy.com, frank@bradick.reno.nv.us,bfrank@alibawal.maxisnet.com.my, foremcd2@juno.com,russett@bcn.net,ssh@prodigy.net, elizabethsmith@unn.unisys.com, count@one.net,cariddi@mv.mv.com, matthewlayman@unn.unisys.com,Matl1Dave@aol.com,RAKESTRAWT@aol.com, RaulRuben@aol.com,jimbenne@eaglequest.com,tomstevens@unn.unisys.com, dozzir@k2.kirtland.cc.mi.usSubject: Fwd: PENPAL virus ---------------------Forwarded message:Subj: Fwd: PENPAL virus Here.---------------------Forwarded message:Subj: Fwd: PENPAL virus ---------------------Forwarded message: Gbpack372@aol.com,QuilterN1@aol.com This information was received this morning from IBM, please share it with anyone that might access the Internet: If anyone receives e-mail entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" please delete it WITHOUT READING IT!! This is a warning for all Internet users - there is a dangerous virus propagating across the Internet through an e-mail message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" > DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS"!! This message appears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are interested in a penpal, but by the time you read the letter, it is too late. The"trojan horse" virus will have already infected the boot sector of > your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is aself-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will > AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone whose e-mail address ispresent in YOUR mailbox! This virus will DESTROY your hard drive, and holds the potential to DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your IN BOX, and > whose mail is in their in box and so on. If this virus keeps getting passed, it has the potential to do a great deal of damage to computer networks worldwide!!!! Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" AS SOON AS YOU SEE IT! Pass this message along to all of your friends and otherreaders of the newsgroups and mailing lists which you are on so that they are not hurt by this dangerous virus!!!! Please pass this along to everyone you know so this can be stopped. SMTPOriginator: rosevax!frmail.frco.com!DAVIHAI@uunet.uu.net > Dear everyone,I picked this up at work. It's important. Try to remember.Mike from mrj@seanet.com Fri Apr 4 18:32:18 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14530 for Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: PENPAL virus] Larry & Jane Russett wrote: Subject: Fwd: PENPAL virus From: Vroom222@aol.com tyunker@tahiti.netreach.net, andyf@bcn.net, Cmj75@aol.com,ARTURO1977@aol.com, Wilskart@aol.com,jennifer.s.kapala@cleve.frb.org,grvs07a@prodigy.com, frank@bradick.reno.nv.us,bfrank@alibawal.maxisnet.com.my, foremcd2@juno.com,russett@bcn.net,ssh@prodigy.net, elizabethsmith@unn.unisys.com, count@one.net,cariddi@mv.mv.com, matthewlayman@unn.unisys.com,Matl1Dave@aol.com,RAKESTRAWT@aol.com, RaulRuben@aol.com,jimbenne@eaglequest.com,tomstevens@unn.unisys.com, dozzir@k2.kirtland.cc.mi.us ---------------------Forwarded message:Subj: Fwd: PENPAL virusDate: 97- 04-04 16:51:57 ESTFrom: Maridozi Here.---------------------Forwarded message:Subj: Fwd: PENPAL virusDate: 97-04-04 06:31:33 ESTFrom: Cmj75 ---------------------Forwarded message:From: Mike_Frassetto@mascohq.com (Mike Frassetto) Gbpack372@aol.com,QuilterN1@aol.comDate: 97-04-02 10:11:49 EST This information was received this morning from IBM, please shareitwith anyone that might access the Internet: If anyone receives e-mail entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" pleasedeleteit WITHOUT READING IT!! This is a warning for all Internet users -there is a dangerous virus propagating across the Internet throughane-mail message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" >DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS"!!Thismessageappears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are interested inapenpal, but by the time you read the letter, it is too late. The"trojan horse" virus will have already infected the boot sector of >your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is aself-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will >AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone whose e-mail address ispresentin YOUR mailbox! This virus will DESTROY your hard drive, and holds the potential toDESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your IN BOX, and whose mail is in their in box and so on. If this virus keeps gettingpassed, it has the potential to do a great deal of damage tocomputernetworks worldwide!!!! Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" AS SOONASYOUSEE IT! Pass this message along to all of your friends and otherreaders of the newsgroups and mailing lists which you are on sothatthey are not hurt by this dangerous virus!!!! Please pass this along to everyone you know so this can be stopped. SMTPOriginator: rosevax!frmail.frco.com!DAVIHAI@uunet.uu.net > Dear everyone,I picked this up at work. It's important. Try toremember.MikeThis message is old and it is total Bull Shit. Don't worry about gettingany virus in e-mail. A message won't have a virus. Now an attachment,maybe. But you would not open one of those up unless you knew who it was from right?. This "PenPal Greetings" is a hoax and it shouldn't go anyfurther than it has.There are several good sites to go to inclucing Gov.sites that will explain hoaxes like this. These should be checked outbefore causing undue alarm. from david_j_rogers@ccm2.hf.intel.com Fri Apr 4 18:58:55 1997 mailbag.jf.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA10712 for Subject: Impregnating the finish What is meant by "impregnating" a rod finish? Regards,David Rogers from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Fri Apr 4 19:22:12 1997 Subject: Re: HARRISBURG FLY FISHERS --Day in Carlisle Apr 4, 97 07:28:31 am Fred, if the folks from Cold Springs Angler are there, please say hello from Oregon. They are nice folks. Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Apr 4 20:09:28 1997 ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:17:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` Darryl Stiffer may not be the right word. I find nodeless rod turnout to be smoother yet more powerfull than noded rods. Could thisbe due to more true Power Fibers (Tom S - are you listening). I dono contribute the stiffness to the splice - It is alot less mass thana node consumes - Now you have powerfiber where a node is. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Apr 4 20:10:43 1997 ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:18:48 -0500 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless I also am mystified as to why a nodeless rod should be stiffer, but I thinkChris has said that in the past, and now Hank. Could the extra glue linesbea factor?-------TomTom How much extra glue - A glue line is about .001" not muchlook at a cross section of a node. Regards Chris from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Apr 4 21:20:41 1997 Subject: Tip Breakage The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaksjustbelow the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were olderclassics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up with isthatthe cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of thecasesthe rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted the capwith enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the last incidentthe rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case.This raises the issue of how much extra room there should be in a rodcase.Apparently 3 inches is too much. This much room allows the enclosed rodtobuilt enough kinetic energy to fracture a tip say when a rod tube were tobedropped. Or a rod tube slides into a solid surface when the vehicle inwhichit is carried brakes hard. above thedisassembled length of the stored rod. This is enough room for the excessbagand tie strings. But not enough to allow the rod to accelerate and buildenergy. This dimension was determined by trial and error. Using a 1/8" dowel rod cut to the exact length of a finished rodsection, Ifirst stored the dowel housed in my normally used rod bag and then Islappedthe ends of the case against a solid surface. While I was doing this Ilistened for any tell tale sound of the dowel contacting the end caps.Starting with a longer than needed case I would administer the test andthenrecut the length of the case. Finally I felt comfortable with the 3/4 inch excess dimension.Unfortunatelyonly time will. Food For ThoughtWayne from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Fri Apr 4 21:33:21 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA23629 for ; Subject: RE: Mildrum Guides, bluing chromed guidesDoes anyone know if Mildrum snakes and tip tops are still available, ifso, where? Also I heard that there is a product out that will "blue"chromed guides. I heard this from a rod builder on a chat line but he wouldno divulge the product. Any info would help. Raising cane,Ken from mrj@seanet.com Fri Apr 4 23:08:16 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA20596 for Subject: Re: Tip Breakage WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaksjustbelow the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were olderclassics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up withis thatthe cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of thecasesthe rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted thecapwith enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the last incidentthe rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case.This raises the issue of how much extra room there should be in arod case.Apparently 3 inches is too much. This much room allows the enclosed rodtobuilt enough kinetic energy to fracture a tip say when a rod tube were tobedropped. Or a rod tube slides into a solid surface when the vehicle inwhichit is carried brakes hard. above thedisassembled length of the stored rod. This is enough room for theexcess bagand tie strings. But not enough to allow the rod to accelerate and buildenergy. This dimension was determined by trial and error.Using a 1/8" dowel rod cut to the exact length of a finished rodsection, Ifirst stored the dowel housed in my normally used rod bag and then Islappedthe ends of the case against a solid surface. While I was doing this Ilistened for any tell tale sound of the dowel contacting the end caps.Starting with a longer than needed case I would administer the test andthenrecut the length of the case.Finally I felt comfortable with the 3/4 inch excess dimension.Unfortunatelyonly time will. Food For ThoughtWayne I would tend to agree with you Wayne. In fishing the rod there shouldnever be anymore than a straight pull on the last 1 inch of rod. Itshould not break from fighting fish. I have actually flattened a tip topon a rod because the case was too long and the inner bag not enough. Ithink 3/4 inch is probably just about right. I assume you mean 3/4 inchmaximum. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Apr 4 23:45:39 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 00:51:25 EDT Subject: Re: varnish At the risk of sounding immature....what is a cyclotron? On 3 Apr 97 at 22:25, brian & michelle creek wrote: You have a cyclotron motor in your dip finisher?? Way Cool!! Brian Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Apr 4 23:45:39 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 00:51:27 EDT Subject: Tip section.... I finished redoing the mid and butt like I said I was. I made the old butt the mid section and the mid section the new butt. Everything worked out fine. I cannot wait to glue a the section up! I am starting to get scared however....the diameter of the mid section is awfully small. I am scared to think what the tip section is going to look like. Till then...Thanks for everyone's help and advice. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mrj@seanet.com Fri Apr 4 23:58:50 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21419 for Subject: Re: varnish Jon Lintvet wrote: At the risk of sounding immature....what is a cyclotron? On 3 Apr 97at 22:25, brian & michelle creek wrote: You have a cyclotron motor in your dip finisher?? Way Cool!! Brian Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean I believe it would be a motor out of a linear accelerator.You know, youcan speed up atoms. I have one out back but it has never broken down soI can't scavage the parts for rod building...yet from SealRite@aol.com Sat Apr 5 07:51:54 1997 Subject: Re: what is an amateur? My dad told me many years ago, it's just as easy to love a rich one. from SealRite@aol.com Sat Apr 5 08:09:16 1997 Subject: Re: THREAD I just use plain old cotton thread from the sewing store. I use it with afour head binder and you would be surprised at the amount of tension youcanget out of it. It heats well. Craig Anderson from bokstrom@axionet.com Sat Apr 5 09:17:31 1997 Subject: Re: Tip Breakage ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: Tip BreakageDate: Friday, April 04, 1997 7:20 PM The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaksjustbelow the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were olderclassics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up withisthatthe cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of thecasesthe rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted thecapwith enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the lastincidentthe rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case.... Try this: use a longer ferrule plug. Combine this with stitching to reducethe inside length of the tip compartment(s) of the rod bag. Then the buttsection with its long plug will absorb any impact and protect the tip John from molly@srv.net Sat Apr 5 09:40:37 1997 (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/01Feb97-1147PM) Subject: Re: Binding thread Someone was asking a few weeks ago about alternatives in bindingthread. Ijust got some interesting stuff from American Science and Surplus(847-982-0870). It is suture cotton thread, size 1. ( stock #3985 ). Itcomes on 100 yard rolls, 2 dollars for two, $1.50 if you buy over ten.Theyhave about 150 spools left. The stuff is government surplus and appearsto bewell made. It has a very smooth finish and is very strong for cotton. Itclaims to be uncoated and not sterilized. I wonder when was the lasttimecotton was used for sutures? -- Tom Taxidermy supply companies carry various threads that are excellent forbinding. Van Dykes in Woonsocket, SD is a good source. -Mike B from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sat Apr 5 09:47:39 1997 IAA27345; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:47:36 -0700 Subject: Guides I have been using H&H carbide guides and have been questioning weatherthey are worth the extra cost. I thought I would through this out fordisscussion to see what guides others have found best. Does anyone knowif the carbide is truly better or more advertising hype? Also I recentlynoticed Pac Bay has new carbide guides at a much lower price. Has anyonetried them? All coments welcomed. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Apr 5 09:48:53 1997 Subject: Re: Tip section.... In a message dated 97-04-05 01:47:40 EST, you write: Same thing I went through.... The tip section will amaze you.On the 2 wt. I'm working on now the tips of the splines arealmost transparent. Darryl Hayashida from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Apr 5 09:49:58 1997 Subject: Re: varnish A type of linear particle accelerator. An "atom smasher," if youwill. IU has one, all the physics geeks hung out there. The directorwas THE highest paid of IU's faculty at the time. Its good to be ageek, sometimes! Brian from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Apr 5 11:53:26 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless In a message dated 4/5/97 2:39:45 AM, you wrote: Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodes withsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod. Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom from khube@benmeadows.com Sat Apr 5 13:24:01 1997 Subject: Re: Tip Breakage At 10:20 PM 4/4/97 -0500, you wrote:The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaksjustbelow the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were olderclassics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up withis thatthe cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of thecasesthe rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted the capwith enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the last incidentthe rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case.This raises the issue of how much extra room there should be in arod case.Apparently 3 inches is too much. This much room allows the enclosed rodtobuilt enough kinetic energy to fracture a tip say when a rod tube were tobedropped. Or a rod tube slides into a solid surface when the vehicle inwhichit is carried brakes hard. above thedisassembled length of the stored rod. This is enough room for the excessbagand tie strings. But not enough to allow the rod to accelerate and buildenergy. This dimension was determined by trial and error. Using a 1/8" dowel rod cut to the exact length of a finished rodsection, Ifirst stored the dowel housed in my normally used rod bag and then Islappedthe ends of the case against a solid surface. While I was doing this Ilistened for any tell tale sound of the dowel contacting the end caps.Starting with a longer than needed case I would administer the test andthenrecut the length of the case. Finally I felt comfortable with the 3/4 inch excess dimension.Unfortunatelyonly time will. Food For ThoughtWayne========================================================================== so there is no motion in the case. Seems to work. Like all things in life,you have to think about what you're doing so the foam doesn't get stuffeddown on the rod tip and actually CAUSE a problem. Karl Hube from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sat Apr 5 14:11:12 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 15:17:01 EDT Subject: Re: varnish I believe it would be a motor out of a linear accelerator.You know, youcan speed up atoms. I have one out back but it has never broken down soI can't scavage the parts for rod building...yet I see..... Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mrj@seanet.com Sat Apr 5 16:12:38 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02670 for Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/5/97 2:39:45 AM, you wrote: look at a cross section of a node. Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodeswithsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod.Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom I am surprised that no one has mentioned my theory that the differencein action may be attributed to the difference in mass, or weight. Evento shoot it down. I would think that there would be a significantdifference. Easily enough to change the action noticeably. from BamboRods@aol.com Sat Apr 5 17:40:37 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Tom, The only time I use nodeless is for rods with sections that will not fitintomy 5' oven. Nodeless is the best way to make 1 piece rods 5' and up. Assomeone stated I also believe the work time is about equa with nodes ornodeless . Never did notice that nodeless is stiffer than nodes. How didyou and Bill bake that 1 piece rod you made for donation?Jon Parker from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 5 18:06:33 1997 TAA02588 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:14:49 -0500 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless In a message dated 4/5/97 2:39:45 AM, you wrote: look at a cross section of a node. Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodeswithsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod. Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom Tom I spent all day yesterday fishing - went way up on Jeremy's Run andhad a super day - did not get down off the mountain until after dark - Itdoes help the body and soul.I could do the same type of math with nodes - 1" per node x 30nodes = almost 3' of ugly stuff! Now lets go for overall mass - the nodesare full section width while glue lines are but .001. I think the important fact is today we have developed methodsto efficiently build nodeless rods while if I did it like Garrison did itwouldstill remain nice - but takes too much time. Regards Chris from russett@bcn.net Sat Apr 5 19:20:54 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA05499 for Subject: HH CARBIDE GUIDES I've been using the HH diamond like carbide on all my rods. I reallylike them but they have cost me sales. There are plenty of people outthere that want bronze snake guides on their bamboo. Others have complained that when I file down the feet of the guide they couldsee the silver color under the wraps. Now if I'm making the rod What would be the best way to blacken the feet on the guide afterI file them down? I am also interested in others opinions on Guides. Just got some Elephant silk from Belvoirdale. Said when he is sold out there isn't any more. Any other good sources of fuzzless real fine silk out there? Thanks. Larry from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Apr 5 19:36:52 1997 Subject: Re: Taper Design Darryl,The tapers I like the best have their highest stresses 13"-16 " from thetip. I'm finding the parabolics usually cast a country mile but they're notto my taste-I tend to like a straight taper with a fine tip-maybe evenparabolic somewhat in the tip only. It's all a matter of taste(some say it'sall in my mouth:-). Just my $.02.Hank.P.S. I believe the increased stiffness in the nodeless rods are due to thescarf joint glue lines-don't know for sure but I think so. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Apr 5 19:45:53 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Jon - I've got a 7 foot oven. Naturally, as soon as I built it Bill decidedthat 7 foot, 3 inches was the best length for a trout rod. For a while hewasafter me to drill a hole in one end. Thank God he went nodeless. -- Tom from DANNUGENT@aol.com Sat Apr 5 21:26:56 1997 Subject: OVEN I am thinking a vertical oven to conserve on space.Maybe call it a (SPACE SAVER OVEN).Juat woundering if some one has one working and how do they like thefinished product?DAN from KDLoup@aol.com Sat Apr 5 21:31:13 1997 Subject: desiccant I notice that the rodmakers web page list a source for desiccant, but Ihaven't read anything about its use. I assume it is used to store canestrips that are in the process of planing between heat treatments in highhumidity conditions. Is this correct? Any other uses? Since moistureentryis to be avoided, I came up with the idea of storing the cane that I will beworking on inside of a closed PVC tube with desiccant inside. Is thispractical or worth the effort? I live in Louisiana where humidity isalwayspresent, especially in the coming months. I'll probably start my first rodsometime next month with days and nights, I'm sure, that will havehumidityin the 90%+ range. Tonight's humidity is 93%. All advice will beappreciated. Kurt from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Apr 5 22:32:37 1997 Subject: Re: OVEN In a message dated 4/6/97 3:30:12 AM, you wrote: Dan - Remember that heat rises, and therefore you will probably havetemperature stratification unless you provide for air circulation -- Tom from Leessinker@aol.com Sun Apr 6 00:40:38 1997 Subject: Re: HH CARBIDE GUIDES Larry , here's a few from a beginner,To blacken the filed portion of the foot I have simply used a blackpermanentmarker.Also do you use a color preservative on your wraps? Without preservativethewraps changes color and transparent making things visable , no matterhowwell you burrnish the the wraps , including silver filed guide feet ormetalic threads used on your tippet .Learned this after it was too late, fortunatly the rod was for myself.Dewayne from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sun Apr 6 07:09:09 1997 Subject: HH CARBIDE GUIDES RO>I've been using the HH diamond like carbide on all my rods. I reallyRO>like them but they have cost me sales. There are plenty of people outRO>there that want bronze snake guides on their bamboo. Others haveRO>complained that when I file down the feet of the guide they couldRO>see the silver color under the wraps. Now if I'm making the rodRO>for someone I ask them what they want. RO>What would be the best way to blacken the feet on the guide afterRO>I file them down? RO>I am also interested in others opinions on Guides. RO>Just got some Elephant silk from Belvoirdale. Said when he isRO>sold out there isn't any more. Any other good sources ofRO>fuzzless real fine silk out there? RO>Thanks. Larry Larry, The only other major source of fine silk thread that I know is YLI. Theysell thread in sizes 50 and 100 (both metric) - but this thread, Ibelieve, was originally intended to be used as sewing thread. Very goodcolor selection. Angler's Workshop stocks and sells the YLI thread too. They order in quantity from YLI and still have a hard time getting somecolors for stock. (I talked to one of owners about trying to get somejasper thread made for restorations - no luck) The Elephant silk is getting to be rare stuff. Stock up! Don Burns from SealRite@aol.com Sun Apr 6 07:58:57 1997 Subject: Tip of the Day - Reel Seats When I turn a reel seat, I have found that I can work with really pretty andcomplex grained wood by ocassionally applying a coating of superglue tothesurface as I turn it down. It soaks into the wood, hardens & stabilizes thegrain. When I get down to the final +/- surface, I put a light coat on andhit it with an accelerator. It seals the grain well, can be polished to ahigh luster with fine sand paper 300-400 and just a little tung oilfinishesthe reel seat off nicely. Just be careful not to glue your fingers to thepiece. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Apr 6 08:20:28 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless In a message dated 97-04-05 20:57:19 EST, you write: Jon - I've got a 7 foot oven. Naturally, as soon as I built it Bill decidedthat 7 foot, 3 inches was the best length for a trout rod. For a while hewasafter me to drill a hole in one end. Thank God he went nodeless. -- Tom Tom: The hole in one end works just fine.RTyree from SealRite@aol.com Sun Apr 6 08:22:20 1997 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Angle Best plane I ever worked with is a Stanley 65. It is an older model out ofproduction now. It has a 12 +/- degree angle. I got it from myGrandfatherwho was a cabinet maker in the mid 50's. Another excellent plane is aRecord9 1/2. The Records have a little better fit & finish than the Stanley's.The Record 9 1/2 has a frog that keeps the blade from chattering. Craig Anderson from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Sun Apr 6 08:29:50 1997 Subject: disconnect Mike,Please remove me from the list. I will be out of town for awhile. Willget back to you upon my returnThanks,Ron Barch from SealRite@aol.com Sun Apr 6 08:40:13 1997 Subject: Re: Carbide Questions - George? I work in a company that does a substantial amount of wood millwork. Carbideblades are great for long production runs, but generally don't work well onsoftwoods. I don't know how you would classify bamboo. The reason a lotofpeople use carbide blades is because they don't need sharpened as often -thenegative is that they can never hold the edge that a steel blade does. Thecarbide basically wears away over time, causing a long term degregationofthe blade sharpness. Steel on the other hand needs to be resharpend moreoften, but can be hand sharpened to a sharper edge. Craig Anderson from SealRite@aol.com Sun Apr 6 08:45:27 1997 Subject: Re: Bag material If the node splits out, try using a simple cabinet scraper. A few pulls overthe node should clean it right up. Craig Anderson from jimholm@itsnet.com Sun Apr 6 09:51:02 1997 scratchy.itsnet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05423 for Subject: diconnect Please disconnect. Thanks for opportunity to listen in. Jim from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 6 09:58:16 1997 Subject: Rod testing A recent posting by Ed Estlow got me thinking about rod testing again. Ayearor so ago there was an article in Fly Fisherman in which a man with anengineering background had set up a machine to measure the oscillationrateof fly rods. Oscillation rate is directly related to the speed and distance aline can be cast. The man called this the hidden signature of a rod. Thepoint of the article was that over the years, the oscillation rate of flyrods has significantly increased. The whole thing made sense to me, and itoccurred to me that it would be a useful piece of information for bamboobuilders as well. Those of us who are experimenting with such things ashollow building, spiraling, 4 & 5 strip,etc. would have a method of seeinghow much of a difference we are making. The author gave no discription ofthemachine, I assume it must have been some sort of a metronomemechanism. Iwould be interested in comments by Ed, or others with technicalbackgrounds,as to what might be involved in such a machine. - Tom from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sun Apr 6 10:01:46 1997 JAA08604; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:01:43 -0600 Subject: Re: HH CARBIDE GUIDES Larry , here's a few from a beginner,To blacken the filed portion of the foot I have simply used a blackpermanentmarker.Also do you use a color preservative on your wraps? Without preservativethewraps changes color and transparent making things visable , no matterhowwell you burrnish the the wraps , including silver filed guide feet ormetalic threads used on your tippet .Learned this after it was too late, fortunatly the rod was for myself.Dewayne Larry, I tried the permenent marker, several brands, and had problems. The inkdid not stick when I coated the wraps. John Zimny recommended using amixof epoxy thinned with MEK mixed with black paint pigment from an artsupply store. Takes a little more time but since I prefer the transparentwraps will continue to use this as long as I am using the H&H carbideguides. Being new I am still not sure the H&H are the way to go. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun Apr 6 10:36:43 1997 Subject: Re: OVEN ----------From: DANNUGENT@aol.com Subject: OVENDate: Saturday, April 05, 1997 8:26 PM I am thinking a vertical oven to conserve on space.Maybe call it a (SPACE SAVER OVEN).Juat woundering if some one has one working and how do they like thefinished product?DAN See Issue #20 of The Planing Form.John from wishbone@headwaters.com Sun Apr 6 13:30:29 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Re: Rod testing From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Rod testing A recent posting by Ed Estlow got me thinking about rod testing again. Ayearor so ago there was an article in Fly Fisherman in which a man with anengineering background had set up a machine to measure the oscillationrateof fly rods. Oscillation rate is directly related to the speed and distancealine can be cast. The man called this the hidden signature of a rod. Thepoint of the article was that over the years, the oscillation rate of flyrods has significantly increased. The whole thing made sense to me, anditoccurred to me that it would be a useful piece of information for bamboobuilders as well. Those of us who are experimenting with such things ashollow building, spiraling, 4 & 5 strip,etc. would have a method of seeinghow much of a difference we are making. The author gave no discriptionof themachine, I assume it must have been some sort of a metronomemechanism. Iwould be interested in comments by Ed, or others with technicalbackgrounds,as to what might be involved in such a machine. - Tom I personally know an individual who set up such a test several years ago at the University of Alabama. My friend used to teach there, and he was able to use the equipment the University had, as well as use the expertise of the Professor in the field. The tests were an attempt to compare fibreglass to graphite, and, using a control sample, to test the theory that added thread and epoxy and different types of handles would affect sensitivity. What he discovered was that sensitivity was affected so slightly that he defied any human hand to notice the difference. If you want, I will try to locate the test results and scan them for you, or send copies snail mail. Perhaps it will give you an idea of what is involved in what you are thinking of doing. Regards, Ian H. ScottWishbone Custom Rods2 Henry St., R.R. #1Grand Valley, OntarioL0N 1G0 519-928-2906 http://www.absolute-sway.comhttp://www.absolute-sway.com/wishbone IAW "He that will not reason is a bigot;He that cannot reason is a fool; andHe that dare not reason is a slave" Sir William Drummond from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 6 14:36:29 1997 Subject: Re: Rod testing In a message dated 4/6/97 6:34:51 PM, you wrote: Ian - Thanks, I would be interested in anything you could come up with. -Tom from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Apr 6 16:35:13 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/5/97 2:39:45 AM, you wrote: look at a cross section of a node. Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodeswithsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod.Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom How about THE NODE LOVERS PROTECTIVE ASSOCIATION. Now that has aring to it. And remember masochism is in the gestalt of the beholder!John from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Sun Apr 6 17:49:49 1997 SAA18089 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 18:49:45 - Subject: Re: Tip of the Day - Reel Seats At 08:58 AM 4/6/97 -0400, someone wrote: When I turn a reel seat, I have found that I can work with really prettyandcomplex grained wood by ocassionally applying a coating of superglue tothesurface as I turn it down. It soaks into the wood, hardens & stabilizesthegrain. When I get down to the final +/- surface, I put a light coat on andhit it with an accelerator. It seals the grain well, can be polished to ahigh luster with fine sand paper 300-400 and just a little tung oilfinishesthe reel seat off nicely. Just be careful not to glue your fingers to thepiece. The thicker super glues such as Zap-a-Gap also do a great job of fillingthose small cracks that sometimes show up in highly figured wood. Justbuild it up a little higher than the surface of the wood, sand it smooth,polish it and the crack will disappear. Later,Johnny-------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun Apr 6 18:00:41 1997 Subject: Re: Rod testing ----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Rod testingDate: Sunday, April 06, 1997 7:57 AM A recent posting by Ed Estlow got me thinking about rod testing again. Ayearor so ago there was an article in Fly Fisherman in which a man with anengineering background had set up a machine to measure the oscillationrateof fly rods. Oscillation rate is directly related to the speed anddistance aline can be cast. The man called this the hidden signature of a rod. Thepoint of the article was that over the years, the oscillation rate of flyrods has significantly increased. The whole thing made sense to me, anditoccurred to me that it would be a useful piece of information for bamboobuilders as well. Those of us who are experimenting with such things ashollow building, spiraling, 4 & 5 strip,etc. would have a method ofseeinghow much of a difference we are making. The author gave no discriptionofthemachine, I assume it must have been some sort of a metronomemechanism. Iwould be interested in comments by Ed, or others with technicalbackgrounds,as to what might be involved in such a machine. - Tom There's not much new under the sun: I think it was Dawn Holbrook ofSeattlewho, around 1975, gave me a chart labelled "Determination of Line Size"onwhich you compared oscillations/min. to rod length to arrive at the linesize. I suspect the chart was developed in the 40's or earlier. No machine was involved - the rod was held down firmly by the handgriponthe edge of a table or bench with one hand. The other hand (one fingeractually) started the rod oscillating and once you found the rhythm timingbegan.e.g. 108 to 120 osc/min indicates a 4 line for a 7' rod, 5 for 7.5', 6 for8' etc. If I knew how to send a chart on this infernal contraption I would. Perhapssomeone who does know will send me his snail mail address and it can geton that way. John Bokstrom from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Apr 6 18:12:13 1997 TAA21574 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:12:08 - Subject: Nodeless To Tom, Chris, Ed, and all: 4/5/97Can't say for sure that nodeless are stiffer, but they do seem smootherand along with that they seem to have no detectable spline which may be aclue as to their superiority. They certainly are easy to plane and aguaranteed antidote to @#$%^&* nodes. Try one in penta geometry for arealkick. Viva Titebond II. Bill from mrj@seanet.com Sun Apr 6 18:33:56 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16970 for Subject: Re: Rod testing TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/6/97 6:34:51 PM, you wrote: you, or send copies snail mail. Perhaps it will give you an idea ofwhat is involved in what you are thinking of doing. Ian - Thanks, I would be interested in anything you could come up with. -Tom I read John Bokstroms message and I have some paper work by DawnHolbrook. He uses (and I use) this occilation meathod to determine theside of the rod to put the guides onI believe I also read somethingabout this in Letcher Lambuths book. I will check. Ray Gould is commingout with a new book on bamboo rod building and I think that he willmention in it the specifics on determining rod line weight using rodoccilation. As far as machine goes you really wouldn't need much. Justclamp the rod in a holder or vice and push on the rod near the handle.It doesn't matter if one person pushes fast and another person pushesslowly, by the time the vibrations get out to the end of the rod,whichis where you would measure them at, the occilations will be the sameregardless of the speed you start them at. I don't know if this is whatyou want but more information on your original article it is all I cando now. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 6 18:55:38 1997 Subject: Re: Rod testing In a message dated 4/6/97 11:21:14 PM, you wrote: John - The chart sounds like a very interesting resource. Maybe Ron wouldpublish it in The Planing Form? - -- Tom from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 6 19:04:51 1997 Subject: Re: Rod testing Martin - You are right that lambuth mentions this test in the book, but hedoes not go into the detail that you and John are talking about. Thanks forthe input---Tom from bryans@connectu.net Sun Apr 6 21:05:39 1997 ns1.connectu.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10217 for Subject: Plane numbers Uh-Oh here's one of those basic questions, please forgive my ignorance.I have just started to gather my tools for the foray into canerodbuilding and I came across a deal on a Stanley plane at my localhardware store. It has a Product No. 12-020 and a Catalog No. 9 1/2. Myquestion is this the same thing as the much heralded 9 1/2 that I see somuch written about? thanks for the time....bryan from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Apr 6 21:07:06 1997 Subject: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Hiya -I was just down in the work room heating and vising nodes when thed--- edest thing happened. I was using the heatgun, rocking and testingthe flex as Wayne shows in his video, when the strip broke apart rightat the node!! It just broke into two pieces, and I could see the endsof the power fibres staring at me! Had to quit and go get a beer andask you guys for some help.Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong? Should I beworried that this node in all the other strips (it's da butt) is bad?Any input (except Chris and his camp saying "See, one more reason to gonodeless!!!BG) would be mostly appreciated.I'm going to stop where I'm at until I figure this out. Thanks! Brian > from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 7 00:26:11 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA23120 for Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! I would not worry too much about this problem. What is happening is thatyou are learning when you can force a bend and when the bamboo is nothot enough. It is an experience thing. Pretty soon you will be able tosay to yourself "I'd better stop right there because if I go onemillameter further it will snap! I know it !" Seriously, you break a fewof these and you will learn the limits to which you can go. Just chalkit up to experience and start up with a new strip. When you get to thenode straightening, just be a little bit more sensitive. The bambooshould bend easily with allmost no required pressure. If it feels likeyou have to force it you are probably bending it before you get it hotenough. I get mine hot enough to just barley start to char the pithside. I make sure to not char the rind side. I use a heat gun on highand fine that it takes about 40 or 50 seconds to properly heat a stripthat is about 1/4 in. wide. Bigger strips take longer and smaller stripstake less. I rarly go less that 30 seconds though. Hiya -I was just down in the work room heating and vising nodes when thed--- edest thing happened. I was using the heatgun, rocking and testingthe flex as Wayne shows in his video, when the strip broke apart rightat the node!! It just broke into two pieces, and I could see the endsof the power fibres staring at me! Had to quit and go get a beer andask you guys for some help.Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong? Should I beworried that this node in all the other strips (it's da butt) is bad?Any input (except Chris and his camp saying "See, one more reason to gonodeless!!!BG) would be mostly appreciated.I'm going to stop where I'm at until I figure this out. Thanks! Brian > -- Martin Jensen from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 7 00:26:12 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA23123 for Subject: Re: Plane numbers My suggestion is to get the Stanley Model 12-920. This is the same thingwith an adjustable throat. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have two planes,one for roughing in and another for the finish work. This would be finefor, and infact better than my "roughing plane. Uh-Oh here's one of those basic questions, please forgive my ignorance.I have just started to gather my tools for the foray into canerodbuilding and I came across a deal on a Stanley plane at my localhardware store. It has a Product No. 12-020 and a Catalog No. 9 1/2. Myquestion is this the same thing as the much heralded 9 1/2 that I see somuch written about? thanks for the time....bryan -- Martin Jensen from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mon Apr 7 06:46:22 1997 Subject: Re: Plane numbers 97 10:19:06 pm Uh-Oh here's one of those basic questions, please forgive my ignorance.I have just started to gather my tools for the foray into canerodbuilding and I came across a deal on a Stanley plane at my localhardware store. It has a Product No. 12-020 and a Catalog No. 9 1/2. Myquestion is this the same thing as the much heralded 9 1/2 that I see somuch written about? thanks for the time....bryan Bryan,Yes, the 12-020 is a reproduction of the 9 1/2, which I believe is nolonger inproduction. The Stanley 12-020 is the block plane most people recommendforthe bulk of planing work. --Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mon Apr 7 07:08:45 1997 Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! at Apr 6, 97 10:12:26 pm Brian,That's probably a fairly common experience. It's happened to me once ortwice. Two things come to mind: 1) you might have overheated the strip(toasted it) and made it brittle that way. You only need to heat it enoughtocrush the node level with the surrounding cane. How dark is the nodearea? Itshouldn't be dark or charred at all, perhaps tanned or slightly toasted. 2)you might not have heated the node enough before you bent it, but if thatwerethe case I would expect a splintered break, not a clean one. The cleanbreaksuggests (only suggests mind you) crystalized lignin (the stuff you aretryingto melt to get it to bend). I suppose also it coule have been a weak piece ofcane. One thing you might try to prevent this in the future is holding the stripfarther away from the nozzle, thereby heating the strip more gradually,andheating it through the center without charring the external surfaces. As for the servicability of the strips, it's very hard to tell. If you havemore cane and are not far into the project, of course the smartest thing istostart over--that is, if you have reason to believe the other strips arebrittle. My guess is that a finished rod of overheated strips (if that's thecause) will be a bit faster that otherwise, and may, in the long run, notlastas long. Of course, it may also be subject to breakage when into a largefishor snag. You have probably already figured this out, and the answer willdepend on whether you have more cane and whether you want to start over. (Letme add this: if there is a question in your mind and you start over, it ishard might.) Please let me know if I can help further, and be sure to listen to others'judgments. -- Mark M. Freed, Ph.DDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from neuneman@fh-ge.de Mon Apr 7 08:15:04 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA03806; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:19:06 +0200Subject: Re: OVEN Hi Dan, I am thinking a vertical oven to conserve on space.Maybe call it a (SPACE SAVER OVEN).Juat woundering if some one has one working and how do they like thefinished product?DAN Try mine. I currently redo my web site, but I hope that I'll be ready in a few days. Frank Neunemannhttp://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/ P.S. If you build nodeless, use your kitchen stove. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Apr 7 08:49:03 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:48:54 EDT Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless This explanation sounds correct. However, the idea that the geometry of the glue line sounds like a plausible alternative theory. I have no basis for this thought, it just sounds reasonable. Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodeswithsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod. Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Apr 7 09:37:26 1997 Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Martin -Thanks for the advice. "Just be a little bit more sensetive." Nowwhere have I heard that before?!?Brian from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Apr 7 09:40:16 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Milward bindin machine I'm building the four head counter-rotating binding machine illustrated in the archives. I made the 6" pulleys out of hardwood turned on my wood lathe - anyonehave any ideas whether this will stand up to use? Also,, can anybody suggest a source for the polyurethane belt referencedin the write up? Many thanks. ThomasP@nacm.com from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon Apr 7 09:57:42 1997 services.state.mo.us (8.8.3/8.8.0) with SMTP id JAA24746 for Subject: Re: Tip Breakage Wayne wrote:The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaks just below the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were older classics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up with is that the cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of the cases the rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted the cap with enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the last incident the rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case. This raises the issue of how much extra room there should be in a rod case. Apparently 3 inches is too much. This much room allows the enclosed rod to built enough kinetic energy to fracture a tip say when a rod tube were to be dropped. Or a rod tube slides into a solid surface when the vehicle in which it is carried brakes hard. For myself, I have chose to leave only 3/4 of an inch extra room above the disassembled length of the stored rod. This is enough room for the excess bag and tie strings. But not enough to allow the rod to accelerate and build energy. This dimension was determined by trial and error. Using a 1/8" dowel rod cut to the exact length of a finished rod section, I first stored the dowel housed in my normally used rod bag and then I slapped the ends of the case against a solid surface. While I was doing this I listened for any tell tale sound of the dowel contacting the end caps. Starting with a longer than needed case I would administer the test and then recut the length of the case. Finally I felt comfortable with the 3/4 inch excess dimension. Unfortunately only time will. Food For ThoughtWayne from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Apr 7 10:28:34 1997 Mon, 7 Apr 1997 23:28:25 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! On Sun, 6 Apr 1997, brian & michelle creek wrote: Hiya -I was just down in the work room heating and vising nodes when thed--- edest thing happened. I was using the heatgun, rocking and testingthe flex as Wayne shows in his video, when the strip broke apart rightat the node!! It just broke into two pieces, and I could see the endsof the power fibres staring at me! Had to quit and go get a beer andask you guys for some help.Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong? Should I beworried that this node in all the other strips (it's da butt) is bad?Any input (except Chris and his camp saying "See, one more reason to gonodeless!!!BG) would be mostly appreciated.I'm going to stop where I'm at until I figure this out. Thanks! Brian > Hi Brian,Possibly try making this spline nodeless and see if you find it more work or trouble than messing about with nodes. It's no use as it is now anyhow.Went sailing in a bit of a blow on the weekend. Blew the # 1 main and jib which caused some excitement but we certainly made good time. I'll be stitching sails rather than making shavings for the next few nights. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rfairfie@cisco.com Mon Apr 7 10:44:19 1997 IAA22012 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 08:43:47 - 0700 Subject: Re: Tip Breakage An idea that you might want to try is putting a piece of foam rubber ateachend of the rod tube. Doing this has eliminated any tip breakage for me. Icarry rods in a large diameter PVC tube, and carry up to 5 of them in theirownbags. No problem. Thanks,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Apr 4 21:10:02 1997Date: Fri, 04 Apr 1997 21:10:52 -0800 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Martin Jensen Subject: Re: Tip BreakageMIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 2153 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rodbreaks justbelow the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were olderclassics. The question was always why. The answer I have come upwith is thatthe cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of thecasesthe rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted thecapwith enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the lastincidentthe rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case.This raises the issue of how much extra room there should be in arod case.Apparently 3 inches is too much. This much room allows the enclosedrod tobuilt enough kinetic energy to fracture a tip say when a rod tube wereto bedropped. Or a rod tube slides into a solid surface when the vehicle inwhichit is carried brakes hard. above thedisassembled length of the stored rod. This is enough room for theexcess bagand tie strings. But not enough to allow the rod to accelerate and buildenergy. This dimension was determined by trial and error.Using a 1/8" dowel rod cut to the exact length of a finished rodsection, Ifirst stored the dowel housed in my normally used rod bag and then Islappedthe ends of the case against a solid surface. While I was doing this Ilistened for any tell tale sound of the dowel contacting the end caps.Starting with a longer than needed case I would administer the testand thenrecut the length of the case.Finally I felt comfortable with the 3/4 inch excess dimension.Unfortunatelyonly time will. Food For ThoughtWayne I would tend to agree with you Wayne. In fishing the rod there shouldnever be anymore than a straight pull on the last 1 inch of rod. Itshould not break from fighting fish. I have actually flattened a tip topon a rod because the case was too long and the inner bag not enough. Ithink 3/4 inch is probably just about right. I assume you mean 3/4 inchmaximum. from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 7 12:00:45 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA04472 for Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! brian & michelle creek wrote: Martin -Thanks for the advice. "Just be a little bit more sensetive." Nowwhere have I heard that before?!?Brian It's the same idea (G) from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Apr 7 12:17:43 1997 Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Tony -But I like Nodes! They look cool, kinda like bamboo burls.Did anybody go swimming when your sails blew out?Also, could you send me your snail mail address off-list again, lostseveral files while in the process of cleaning up my hard drive. Gottaitchy delete finger, I guess.Happy sewing!Brian from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Apr 7 12:44:25 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:42:07 EDT Subject: Re: HH CARBIDE GUIDES Are the guides we are talking about the DLC's? Just curious. I received some today for a graphite salt water rod and played with permanent marker. I also have their bronzed guides. How do you get a pen the color bronze? Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Apr 7 13:00:49 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 13:56:40 EDT Subject: Wood inserts Just a question...does anyone know of a way to polish N.S. and the wood inserts of reel seats? Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Mon Apr 7 13:06:27 1997 MAA20360; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 12:06:21 -0600 Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Martin -Thanks for the advice. "Just be a little bit more sensetive." Nowwhere have I heard that before?!?Brian Brian, When I first started I took some of the end pieces that were cut off andpracticed heating and bending the nodes. I broke several nodes in thescrap pieces delibertly in order to get the feel just how far to push it. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Mon Apr 7 14:58:52 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: Wood inserts Just a question...does anyone know of a way to polish N.S. and the wood inserts of reel seats? Jon LintvetIthaca College attachment and jeweler's rouge. Bob Matarazzo from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Apr 7 15:23:27 1997 Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Jim, Thanks. Good idea. I'm holding the strip with my hands further apartnow so I can't put as much stress on the node I'm heating. Seems towork well. Brian from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Apr 7 15:29:31 1997 Subject: RE:Wood inserts RO>Just a question...does anyone know of a way to polish N.S. and theRO>wood inserts of reel seats? RO> Jon LintvetRO> Ithaca College RO>"All there is to thinking is seeing somethingRO>noticeable which makes you see something youRO>were'nt noticing which makes you see somethingRO>that isn't even visible."RO> -Norman Maclean John, The NS can be polished with "Nevr-Dull" or other auto cotton waddingpolishes. I cleaned a old NS Kingfisher reelseat from light brown tobright bright with this stuff and lots of elbow grease. Don Burns from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 7 16:22:50 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13197 for Subject: Re: Wood inserts Jon Lintvet wrote: Just a question...does anyone know of a way to polish N.S. and thewood inserts of reel seats? Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman MacleanPolishing NS is very easy if you have a bench grinder. I install acotton buffing pad and then use a stick of Jewelers rouge to load up thepad with and than polish away. I wouldn't get the wood though. You willprobably make it dark if you hit it with the buffing pad. By hand youcould use probably silver polish or any nonabrasive polisher. Shouldn'tbe too tough. from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 7 16:24:14 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA13212 for Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Jim Fillpot wrote: Martin -Thanks for the advice. "Just be a little bit more sensetive." Nowwhere have I heard that before?!?Brian Brian, When I first started I took some of the end pieces that were cut off andpracticed heating and bending the nodes. I broke several nodes in thescrap pieces delibertly in order to get the feel just how far to push it. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado Jim,Good idea. I think that Brian has an old scrap piece of bamboo to playwith now (G). from cpence@mwci.net Mon Apr 7 17:09:21 1997 Subject: Mail order problem with builder Hi, all. I hope you can help me with this. Last fall I sent a check fora rod to Bob Nunley Jr, a frequent contributor to this list at that timeand owner of Spring Valley Custom Cane Flyrods in Oklahoma. Bobexperienced family problems soon afterwards and closed the business. Thelong and short of it is that several promises were not kept, includingthe refunding of my money. This has never happened to me before ininternet/mail-order dealings. Does anyone know what steps I should takenext? I don't think further discussions with Bob will prove fruitful.Tnanks in advance -- Craig from bokstrom@axionet.com Mon Apr 7 17:45:24 1997 Subject: Rod testing I lost the message where someone mentioned that the chart ofoscillation/line size may be included in Ray Gould's forthcoming "Secretsof the Bamboo Fly Rod". Just checked with Ray and he confirms this. Bestguess for publication is this fall.John from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Apr 7 17:59:02 1997 ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 19:07:38 -0400 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless On Sun, 06 Apr 1997 17:23:46 -0400, John Zimny wrote: TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/5/97 2:39:45 AM, you wrote: look at a cross section of a node. Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodeswithsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod.Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom How about THE NODE LOVERS PROTECTIVE ASSOCIATION. Now that has aring to it. And remember masochism is in the gestalt of the beholder!John John Nope, That sounds too much like WOPA - knowing your stellarmillitary career.Let's try for other befitting titles: National Order Debating Evolution of Science (NODES)orNeeding Other Dumb enities of Scorn (again NODES) And my list can go on and on - Really you need to have a national day of attonement whereyou do nothing but nodes. Also for those node lovers out there - I havea whole bag full - I will bring to Grayrock and see if there are any takers. See John - you cannot even give them away. Happy Spring! Fishing is great Regards Chris from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon Apr 7 18:01:12 1997 with ESMTP id SAA17389 for ; Mon, 7 Apr robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id SAA04219 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id MOXAAIBE; Mon,7 Apr 1997 18:00:33 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: use of Veritas gauge Hi everyone, I just got my Veritas gauge today and was wondering how I am going touse itwith an off-the-stone (General) sharpening guide? Unless I make a flatrectangular base for the rollers on the General and prop the Veritas up onthewaterstone while I'm chucking the blade into the sharpening guide, I don'tseehow it will work. Am I missing something here? I would appreciate it ifsomeonewould tell this numbskull how to do this oh-so-simple task! Don from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Apr 7 18:07:15 1997 ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 19:15:54 -0400 Subject: Re: Tip Breakage Wayne / Terry I like Terry's idea - now where is Reed and his tip tubes -the real way to protect them! Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Apr 7 18:22:44 1997 ; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 19:31:23 -0400 Subject: Re: use of Veritas gauge Don Simple answer is to send it back - do not need it- look in Wayne'sbook. You make a simple wooden block to set the General off the stoneguide. I just posted some other hints for ensuring consistancy in using it. Regards Chris from ghilbers@earthlink.net Mon Apr 7 19:43:36 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Father forgive them, they nodes not what they do. from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 7 20:18:02 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21327 for Subject: Re: Rod testing John Bokstrom wrote: I lost the message where someone mentioned that the chart ofoscillation/line size may be included in Ray Gould's forthcoming"Secretsof the Bamboo Fly Rod". Just checked with Ray and he confirms this. Bestguess for publication is this fall.JohnI was the one who mentioned that John. I will see him this commingweekend down in Troutdale and will mention it again. from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Apr 7 20:23:36 1997 Subject: Re: use of Veritas gauge Veritas guage is made for their on-the-stone jig. You need to have thesurface of your guage at the same height as your stone's surface forthis to work. Hmmmmm.Hey! Just take the phone book (or any other disposable, thickish book)and just open enough pages until you get the right height and set yourjig. Or you could plane a hunk of wood to make up the correctdimension. Good luck. I like Veritas guage, but I use theirsharpenning jig as well.Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Apr 7 20:35:17 1997 Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Hey! I resemble that remark!My wife and kids went to visit her parents for spring break, but Ididn't have enough vacation days left to go with them and Grayrock too.. . .But I took today as a personal day to get a handle on this nodeflattening, cane bending stuff. I broke several pieces of cane, ranging from room temp to rubbery (I really gotta learn to wear gloves), andthink I have a better idea of the material's tolerances now. I've foundthat dog-legs are best (for me) straightened by hand until close totrue, and then vised. I'm using my bench-end Record vise with maplefaces. Works real nice and seems to spread the pressure out well. Nodes come out real flat.This stuff is a gas. I've learned that I need to get into the same kindof head I'm in when I fish a really technical stream. Go slow, stayalert for whatever clues are there, and if you screw up, laugh and tryagain. I've had to repalce three strips in the butt alone. I hope I'mlearning something, cause I'm about out of cane!!!Thanks to all for your help.Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Apr 7 20:41:31 1997 Subject: Grayrock Wayne posted a Grayrock update last week. Somehow I've managed todelete all of my archived files.(I'm Bummin') Can someone post thatagain, or forward me a copy via e-mail? Thanks Brian from JCZIMNY@dol.net Mon Apr 7 21:15:41 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Gary Hilbers wrote: Father forgive them, they nodes not what they do. That was ugly. UGLY!! SHAME.Zimny from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 7 21:49:49 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA24332 Subject: Cascade Rods Hi all, Does anyone have any info on Cascade rods and possible values? I'venever heard of them, but a friend has a line on one and wants to knowwhat to pay. I know it's extremely dependent upon condition, length,line weight, tube, bag, etc. but is $100 in the realm of possibility? Thanks in advance for any help. Best regards, Ed Estlow from rickcunn@tenet.edu Mon Apr 7 21:56:25 1997 Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! I've got a question for you all.(Pardon my Texan) I am building up a three piece from a 16 foot culm and deceided to use strips from the middle and tip for the mid section. I will probably use 2x2x2 staggering or 3x3. My question is what is the minimum distance the nodes should be apart? When you are working with strips with different distancesbetween nodes you cannot just split the spacings evenly. Rick C. from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Mon Apr 7 22:16:14 1997 0000 Subject: McClane's Std. Fishing Encyc. Hello, If any one is interested I have an extra McClane's Standard Fishing Encyc.1965 Has a fairly long bamboo rod building chapter with goodillustrations. Many color fly plates with flies tied mostly by the Darbee'sand more fish info that you can shake a rod at. Email if interested offlist. Also is there any demand for the differential screws talked about lastweekor so? As I recall they have a left and right hand thread? I can make themif needed. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 7 22:22:52 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA17257 Subject: Re: Rod testing Martin Jensen wrote: and TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: SNIP .......... Justclamp the rod in a holder or vice and push on the rod near the handle.It doesn't matter if one person pushes fast and another person pushesslowly, by the time the vibrations get out to the end of the rod,whichis where you would measure them at, the occilations will be the sameregardless of the speed you start them at. SNIP What this test is doing is "exciting" the rod to oscilate at its naturalfrequency. The natural frequency of a rod (or any other structure) is afunction of its structural characteristics (think tuning fork, violinstring, etc.). As we all understand, what line weight a rod will throwand how fast are also functions of a rod's structure (i.e., taper,length, hollow vs. solid, etc.). Apparently, the referenced chart is theresult of some empirical testing that correlates natural frequency withline weight. I, too, would like to see a copy of the chart. Good idea for Ron to putit in the Planing Form. I'd also be interested in any other referencespeople can send me, off list, of course. from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 7 22:49:01 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA26092 for Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Rick Cunningham wrote: I've got a question for you all.(Pardon my Texan) I am building up athree piece from a 16 foot culm and deceided to use strips from themiddle and tip for the mid section. I will probably use 2x2x2 staggeringor 3x3. My question is what is the minimum distance the nodes should beapart? When you are working with strips with different distancesbetweennodes you cannot just split the spacings evenly.Rick C.The easy answer is "as far apart as possible". If you look at a lot ofold cheap rods, you will see no node staggering pattern at all. Some ofthe nodes are right next to one another. This is not good but the rodsare still out there heavily used and not broken, so you can come to yourown conclusion. I would think for my own opinion is at least several inches would benecessary. If it were less than that I would probably try something elselike a different node staggering pattern. from neuneman@fh-ge.de Tue Apr 8 01:53:49 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA05566; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 08:58:00 +0200Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Hi there, I also am mystified as to why a nodeless rod should be stiffer, but I thinkChris has said that in the past, and now Hank. Could the extra glue linesbea factor?-------Tom I followed part of your discussion. A few years ago I tried buildingnodeless myself (2 rods) and talked to rodbuilders in Holland. There,building nodeless has a long tradition, but all the guys I talked to had toadmit that nodeless is just cosmetics. If you don't like the nodes cut themout. My own experience is the same, I was unable to find any advantagesbuilding nodeless. Even worse, I like nodes. Some higher entity put theminto the bamboo, so I leave them where they are :-) BTW, did someone notice that a bamboo strip breaks a lot easier at theglued area than a strip with nodes? I did a number of tests and stoppednodeless building after that. Frank from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue Apr 8 07:19:06 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA08737 for; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 08:19:04 -0400 Subject: NI/Brass ferrules DUMB QUESTION ALERT!!!!!But I gotta know,What am I losing using nickel plated brass over nickel silver, other than snobbery and thin wallet. Thanks,Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from kkimmel@tnc.com Tue Apr 8 09:03:38 1997 nisku.blackgold.ab.ca (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id IAA06655 for Subject: Unsubscribe How do I unsubscribre?----------------------------------------------------------KEN KIMMELHYDRIL CANADIAN CO., LTD2307 8 ST.NISKU, ALBERTAT9E 7Z3PH. 403 955 2045FAX 403 955 7627 from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 8 09:10:34 1997 Subject: RE:NI/Brass ferrules RO>DUMB QUESTION ALERT!!!!!RO>But I gotta know,RO>What am I losing using nickel plated brass over nickel silver, otherRO>than snobbery and thin wallet. RO>Thanks,RO>Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)RO>Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalRO>Dept. Of Biomedical Engineering Tom, As usual, the answer is - it depends. If you use good quality modern NPB ferrules, then they should hold upokay. They might start showing some brass after extended use, but theyshould work okay. But, if you're talking about using old recycled Montague bottle-styleferrules - then you're working with a ticking time-bomb. These crappythings seem to crack at will, I think. I've got 2 darn near mint(unfished?) Montague rods that have cracked ferrules. Cracked from thefactory? The brass is too thin, perhaps not annealed (?) and the designmakes them undersized in the mating dia. too. I would make sure that the ferrules were well coated with U-40's FerruleLube. If you ever plan to sell your rods, then the expected quality of acustom rod would, IMHO, demand NS ferrules. For learning and fishing -have at it. LAter, Don B. PS - I've ordered NPB ferrules from Angler's W.S. and Netcraft. Now thatNetcraft has merged with Jann's their prices have jumped a little bit -still have the lowest prices. from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 8 10:20:21 1997 Subject: What you can do with that bag of nodes This node v nodeless thread won't seem to go away, so I'm adding another$.02. We have had Martin suggesting a density difference, and Chrissuggesting a power fiber difference. I can't come up with a reallyscientificway of testing either theory, but in the immortal words of Yogi Berra, "youcan observe a heck of a lot just by looking". I took a few untreated nodesand sawed them through the middle and then polished up the end grain.Theirstructure was much like the rest of the cane. A very thin layer of finefiber, followed by a thicker layer of coarser fiber, followed by increasingpith. The unbroken layer of power fibers was shallower than in the rest ofthe cane. The fibers were there, but went deeper into the pith. In otherwords, the pith went higher, and the power fibers went lower.I also had a reject strip around with prepared nodes, it's depth was about.115. The center of these nodes was all power fiber with a small ammountofpith beginning to show at the apex. Most, but not all, of the very fine fiberlayer was gone. My guess based on these few observations, is that thereshould not be much differece in tip sections, in either power fiber ordensity. There may well be some differences in butt sections, but thedifferences will be near the center of the section, where they should nothave much effect. So anyway Chris, since you will probably find littlecommercial value for your bag of nodes, I suggest you cut them into littlepieces and see if my limited observations hold up. - Tom from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Apr 8 10:23:04 1997 QAA12928 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 16:22:58+0100 Subject: Suppliers Don and others: You've mentioned Netcraft and Jann's for ferrule supply. As a 'forriner' I'dbe very pleased to have some contact addresses, fax, email details oftheseand any other suppliers that you can suggest. Thanks as ever. John from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 8 10:33:31 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Chris et al, The operation must hurt like hell and don't you find it a trifflefrustrating - going nodeless that is. Don from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue Apr 8 10:34:03 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Veritas sharpening guide and blade angles I use the Veritas on stone sharpening guide and angle checker, but as the latter is finicky to use, I have found that by allowing the plane blade to protrude exactly 1.5" from the front of the retention screw (the flat part that bears on the blade) you get an exact 25 degree angle. Two clicks on the Veritas adjuster then gets you a 28 degree micro-bevel, if you want it. No need for the angle setting jig -this method gives great repeatability. I just use an accurate ruler for the 1.5" but Wayne's little jig made of scrap wood would be even faster. ThomasP@nacm.com from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Tue Apr 8 10:55:42 1997 mail-oak-2.pilot.net with ESMTP id IAA18014 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA138965354; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 09:02:34- 0700 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00028B40; Tue, 8 Apr 9708:59:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Cascade Rods Ed, Was this a bamboo or fiberglass rod? I seem to remember a Cascade Rod Company in Woodland, Washington thateventuallybecame the Lamaglass rod company. There was a story in Salmon-Trout-Steelheader Magazine some years ago profiling Gary Loomis who left Cascade to startG. Loomis rod company. Could this be the same company? Lloyd ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Cascade RodsAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet Hi all, Does anyone have any info on Cascade rods and possible values? I've never heard of them, but a friend has a line on one and wants to know what to pay. I know it's extremely dependent upon condition, length, line weight, tube, bag, etc. but is $100 in the realm of possibility? Thanks in advance for any help. Best regards, Ed Estlow from bootstrap@earthlink.net Tue Apr 8 11:01:24 1997 Subject: Re: Differential screws Forget trying to buy them. The screws that Garrison described can't bepurchased from any known source. You can have someone make them ormakethem yourself. .A. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster 18599 E. Louisiana Ave..AAA. Colorado Boostrap, Inc. Aurora, CO 80017.A"AAA. bootstrap@earthlink.net.A' `AAA. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.AAaaaaAAA. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626.A' `AAA. "It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,aAAa aAAAAa it's tha things we know that ain't so!" -Artemus Ward from bootstrap@earthlink.net Tue Apr 8 11:03:36 1997 Subject: Re: Differential screws Tom. There are on the market very precise positioning screws that willwork in the application you describe. Check with the machine toolindustry. They're used for platform positioning in machining centers andcan be bought separately. .A. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster 18599 E. Louisiana Ave..AAA. Colorado Boostrap, Inc. Aurora, CO 80017.A"AAA. bootstrap@earthlink.net.A' `AAA. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.AAaaaaAAA. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626.A' `AAA. "It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,aAAa aAAAAa it's tha things we know that ain't so!" -Artemus Ward from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.boeing.com Tue Apr 8 13:45:22 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 11:45:18 -0700 Subject: test 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC4412.54F7B030" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4412.54F7B030 just resubscribed this is a test Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4412.54F7B030 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4412.54F7B030-- from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 8 14:59:05 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 15:58:56 EDT Subject: Uh... Haven't seen anything in 24 hours?Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.boeing.com Tue Apr 8 15:00:33 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 13:00:27 -0700 Subject: test 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC441C.D498D490" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC441C.D498D490 test Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC441C.D498D490 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC441C.D498D490-- from mrj@seanet.com Tue Apr 8 15:19:02 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA18384 for Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: This node v nodeless thread won't seem to go away, so I'm adding another$.02. We have had Martin suggesting a density difference, and Chrissuggesting a power fiber difference. I can't come up with a reallyscientificway of testing either theory, but in the immortal words of Yogi Berra,"youcan observe a heck of a lot just by looking". I took a few untreated nodesand sawed them through the middle and then polished up the end grain.Theirstructure was much like the rest of the cane. A very thin layer of finefiber, followed by a thicker layer of coarser fiber, followed byincreasingpith. The unbroken layer of power fibers was shallower than in the restofthe cane. The fibers were there, but went deeper into the pith. In otherwords, the pith went higher, and the power fibers went lower.I also had a reject strip around with prepared nodes, it's depth was about.115. The center of these nodes was all power fiber with a smallammount ofpith beginning to show at the apex. Most, but not all, of the very finefiberlayer was gone. My guess based on these few observations, is that thereshould not be much differece in tip sections, in either power fiber ordensity. There may well be some differences in butt sections, but thedifferences will be near the center of the section, where they should nothave much effect. So anyway Chris, since you will probably find littlecommercial value for your bag of nodes, I suggest you cut them intolittlepieces and see if my limited observations hold up. - TomHmm,sounds like according to your observations, weight may not be all thatdifferent. I had never looked much at the nodes except to file themdown, press them and try not to break them when I straighten them. I wassimply guessing that they were denser because they had no structuralintegrity. I tried to weigh one the other day, but I don't have a scalethat is sensitive enough to do it. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 8 15:23:19 1997 Subject: Re: Uh... At 16:00 08/04/97 +0000, you wrote:Haven't seen anything in 24 hours?Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean Jon - the server only allows 25 postings/month - guess you've blownyours. Don from Canerods@aol.com Tue Apr 8 18:15:21 1997 Subject: Re: Suppliers In a message dated 97-04-08 13:31:56 EDT, you write: Date: 97-04-08 13:31:56 EDTFrom: jcooper@interalpha.co.uk (John Cooper)Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Don and others: You've mentioned Netcraft and Jann's for ferrule supply. As a 'forriner'I'dbe very pleased to have some contact addresses, fax, email details oftheseand any other suppliers that you can suggest. Thanks as ever. John John, Was that forriner or forninator. Jann's and Netcraft are now one and the same. The old Netcraft catalog hadless fly tying stuff and somewhat better prices for the rod building parts,but the new company has a better selection of equipment overall. TheAngler'sand Clemens catalogs are must have catalogs. All three ship internationalorders and take all major credit cards. Jann's NetcraftP.O. Box 89Maumee, OH 43537 USA(800) netcraft(419) 868- 8288FAX 868-8338 Angler's WorkshopP.O. Box 1010Woodland, WA 98674 USA(360) 225- 9445FAX 225-8641USA FAX (800) 278-1069 Clemens444 Schantz RoadAllentown, PA 18104 USA(610) 395-5119FAX 398-2580 Then there's the "Big 3" -- Orvis, L.L. Bean and Cabela's. None of these areas good as the above listed companies for rod parts. If anyone needsaddresses for these guys, please email me directly. Tight Lines and cane rods, Don Burns from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Apr 8 18:50:56 1997 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes You could also heat temper them, polish them up, coat them with severallayers of tung oil, and have the newest teen jewelry craze! from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 8 18:55:15 1997 UAA05125 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:04:06 -0400 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless On Mon, 07 Apr 1997 17:44:27 -0700, Gary Hilbers wrote: Father forgive them, they nodes not what they do. Amen brother! Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 8 19:21:31 1997 UAA05485 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:30:23 -0400 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes Tom Now the only other thing left to do is measure the densityof the node fiber versus power fiber areas. I think one of the greatmysteries associated with node stagger patterns is related to howto deal with the different density of the fibers. Power transmissiondown the rod is not consistent when you are dealing with differentdensity of materials. Boy! how can we ever seperate myth from fact and havedefinitive answers - is this why we call this a craft or even art ofmaking a fine bamboo fly rod - If it was easy then it would be nofun! Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 8 19:22:24 1997 UAA05494 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:31:15 -0400 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Don Yes it does - and it even changes your voice one octive! Chris et al, The operation must hurt like hell and don't you find it a trifflefrustrating - going nodeless that is. Don Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 8 19:24:44 1997 UAA05529 for ; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:33:35 -0400 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes On Tue, 08 Apr 1997 13:21:32 -0700, Martin Jensen wrote: TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: This node v nodeless thread won't seem to go away, so I'm addinganother$.02. We have had Martin suggesting a density difference, and Chrissuggesting a power fiber difference. I can't come up with a reallyscientificway of testing either theory, but in the immortal words of Yogi Berra,"youcan observe a heck of a lot just by looking". I took a few untreatednodesand sawed them through the middle and then polished up the end grain.Theirstructure was much like the rest of the cane. A very thin layer of finefiber, followed by a thicker layer of coarser fiber, followed byincreasingpith. The unbroken layer of power fibers was shallower than in the restofthe cane. The fibers were there, but went deeper into the pith. In otherwords, the pith went higher, and the power fibers went lower.I also had a reject strip around with prepared nodes, it's depth wasabout.115. The center of these nodes was all power fiber with a smallammount ofpith beginning to show at the apex. Most, but not all, of the very finefiberlayer was gone. My guess based on these few observations, is that thereshould not be much differece in tip sections, in either power fiber ordensity. There may well be some differences in butt sections, but thedifferences will be near the center of the section, where they shouldnothave much effect. So anyway Chris, since you will probably find littlecommercial value for your bag of nodes, I suggest you cut them intolittlepieces and see if my limited observations hold up. - TomHmm,sounds like according to your observations, weight may not be all thatdifferent. I had never looked much at the nodes except to file themdown, press them and try not to break them when I straighten them. I wassimply guessing that they were denser because they had no structuralintegrity. I tried to weigh one the other day, but I don't have a scalethat is sensitive enough to do it. Martin You can have my bag-o-nodes and weigh them and divide bythe number of nodes! See Tom - there is a use for them. Regards Chris from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 8 19:33:06 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:33:09 EDT Subject: Just a test Wanted to see if things were working for me.Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 8 19:34:47 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 20:34:32 EDT Subject: Sorry everyone... I lost the list there for a couple days or so. Did anyone respond to my questions regarding polishing N.S. and wood inserts? Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 8 19:49:19 1997 ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: propane torch Folks, I am getting ready to flame some bamboo for the first time. Can anyonerecommend a cheap but decent torch (the kind you screw on a propanebottle)? I tried the archives but I couldn't find any easy way tosearch. Mike-- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly- fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Apr 8 19:57:17 1997 Subject: Re: Veritas sharpening guide and blade angles FYI - A few months a friend and fellow maker Ken Rongey convinced metotry using diamond sharpening stones. In his trying them he had purchasedtheVeritas holder and set gauge. But because of the shift (caused by removingmetal during sharpening) Ken had made a set block similar to that that Iusedonly with a couple of revisions. The first was to use a stop distance of 11/8" - Ken had determined this to be the exposure needed to obtain a 30degree angle. The second modification was to add a side stop that thebladecould be aligned to - this will keep the blade square to the fixture andkeepthe edge from becoming skewed. The family is now using the diamondstones forinitial sharpening and Ken's set gauge and have had excellent results. Wayne from pete@koyote.com Tue Apr 8 20:59:56 1997 ns1.koyote.com (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id VAA28694 for; Tue, 8 Apr 1997 21:00:41 -0500 Subject: Information on L. & C. Regent Rod Has any one got any information on the L. & C. Regent Rod. I may wantot restore it. It is serial number r-123, has one tip broken the otheris fine and several guides missing. any information concerning value and etc would be appreciated. It is in a Peerless case no bag. from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Apr 8 21:26:30 1997 Subject: Re: propane torch Mike -You can search by using the "find"command whilst viewing the archives. Go to 'find,' enter your key words (in this case, 'propane torch')andhit go. This will take you to each match sequentially. I just went to the local lumber super store (Lowe's up here) and boughtwhat looked like the hottest Burnzomatic torch they had. It's notelectronic ignition (Using the striker is easy, and kinda fun!) and withspreader tip (I don't use this, the round flame is pretty big and worksbetter), striker and propane bottle was $19.95. FWIW. Been fishin' lately? Brian from cholly@ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 8 21:34:05 1997 ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Are they any good? I have just recently found two bamboo rods for sale in an antique shop 9' long and was made by Horrocks-Ibbotson in Utica, NY. The other isvery similar but has no manufacturer markings. Does anyone have an ideaof the correct value of the Horrocks-Ibbotson rod. Please answer to cholly@ix.netcom.com Thanks Chris Holly from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 8 21:43:30 1997 Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:43:17 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless wugate.wustl.edu id VAA17152 On Tue, 8 Apr 1997, Frank Neunemann wrote: Hi there, I also am mystified as to why a nodeless rod should be stiffer, but IthinkChris has said that in the past, and now Hank. Could the extra glue linesbea factor?-------Tom I followed part of your discussion. A few years ago I tried buildingnodeless myself (2 rods) and talked to rodbuilders in Holland. There,building nodeless has a long tradition, but all the guys I talked to had toadmit that nodeless is just cosmetics. If you don't like the nodes cut themout. My own experience is the same, I was unable to find any advantagesbuilding nodeless. Even worse, I like nodes. Some higher entity put theminto the bamboo, so I leave them where they are :-)BTW, did someone notice that a bamboo strip breaks a lot easier at theglued area than a strip with nodes? I did a number of tests and stoppednodeless building after that. Frank Scarfed wood and cane normaly break (when tested to destruction) just outside of the scarf, if the scarf is propperly made. This would suggestthe scarf stiffens the section.I've been thinking about the stifness issue between nodeless and noded rods while sewing my sails and I wonder (if there indeed is a difference) if the scarf is stiffer than the non scarfed section and I think it is, this scarfed section may not only not move as much but may also resist movement of the surounding splines. By this I don't just mean bending but the slight movement of the glue line which takes place during use. Just a thought. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Apr 8 21:49:38 1997 Subject: TTBBBQ III invite & comments Subj: TBBBQ invite Here' the TBBBQ invite info. You can leave in or take out the stuff aboutWed. & Thurs. activities as you think is appropriate for the RODMAKERSgroup.I'm also printing this up on a single sheet, 4 pages, for mailing, if you'dlike any. Don't hesitate to call or writed. Steve*************************************************************************************YOU ARE INVITED TO THE TROUT BUM BAR-B-Q '97! Join the bums at the third annual all-you-can-eat pig roast barbecue &sporting flies competition 5:00 Saturday Evening, June 21 along the banksofthe AuSable River at The Fly Factory. WHAT IS TBBBQ AND WHAT IS IT ALL ABOUT?The "Trout Bum Bar-B-Q" [known online in the Compuserve fly-fishingforumand elsewhere by its acronym: TBBBQ] is a by-invitation-only,"not-for-profit" barbecue for trout bums and of trout bums [trout bumsshouldbe subject to a little good natured roasting] and associated unplannedadventures. TBBBQ draws a diverse group of fly-fishing folk from all around N.America [plus occasional guests from the U.K. and/or Europe] to make new friends,renew old acquaintances, go fishin', unwind and raise a few dollars insupport of our fisheries resources. During TBBBQ weekend, a cane rod builders gathering - Rodmakers atGrayrock-will be held on the grounds and in the WorkShopp/Clubhouse at The FlyFactory. This is the third cane builders get- together held in conjunctionwith TBBBQ, hosted this year by RODMAKERS, a cane rod builders internetlistserve [information exchange] coordinated by Mike Biondo of St. Louis,MO. [616]675-5894 / e-mail WayneCatt@aol.com.Some Trout Bums arrive a week or more in advance of Saturdaynight's actual BBQ; there is a lot of "free-style" fishing and trout bum camaraderiethroughout the week leading up to Saturday evening's pig roast andsportingflies competition. Detailed planning and organization are NOT emphasized. Anumber of TBBBQ friends and veterans pitch in to support the TBBBQ effortandhelp make it all work. The first two TBBBQ's were not break-even events. At the urging of anumberof TBBBQ attendees [to prevent the guys putting on the event fromreceiving athree-peat financial ass whuppin'], this year the entry contribution hasbeenincreased to assure some $$$ for our fishing resources. As always, no individual or business reaps financial reward from theTBBBQ. TBBBQ '97 profits will be divided between the George Griffith Foundationproject to assess the impact caused to the upper AuSable by storm waterdischarges and, the Michigan Hydro Relicensing coalition which representsfly-fishing interests in the FERC dam relicensing process. The MHRC iscoordinated by the FFF Great Lakes Council President, Jim Schramm. YOUR TBBBQ CO-HOSTS ARE:The Fly Factory - Steve & Cecilia Southard and Family- and -Spike's Keg O'Nails - Victor & Kathy Edwards STEVE SOUTHARD OFFERS A WORD OF EXPLANATION ABOUT THE ORIGIN OFTHE TROUTBUM BAR-B-Q"The Fly Factory planned to host a cane rod builders gathering thethirdweek of June, 1995. My friend Victor Edwards, who became active on theCompuserve online fly-fishing forum while serving his 'farewell tour' forUncle Sam in Germany, invited some of his Compuserve fly-fishing friendstoGrayling for a visit in the spring of 1995, upon his return from Germany.Coincidentally, this was the same weekend as the cane rod gathering.While we were at the 1995 Central Michigan Fly Show Victorrecognized the opportunity, suggesting we get the two groups together during thatupcomingJune weekend for burgers; the diverse group would make for an interestingevening.Adding a few friends to the list, the burger cookout for a few dozenbecamea pig roast under a tent for 100+. As Victor & I drove 3 hours from SwartzCreek to Grayling that February, straining our creative thinking muscles,thename "Trout Bum Bar-B-Q" hit me [I'm big on alliteration and bad puns] andTBBBQ was born." TBBBQ SCHEDULE: (ALL EVENTS OCCUR IN/NEAR GRAYLING, MICHIGAN, USA)This years schedule will be less structured and will require moreselfreliance. We will however continue to turn you face down when warrantedgggGG]: http://www.troutbums.com "SUPPORT INFORMATION" * AREA RIVER ACCESS MAPS:Books that provide detailed maps and descriptions of access points in thelocal area plus a really good hatch chart are available through Steve'sshop. * LODGING:Lodging information can be obtained from:Grayling Area Visitors CouncilPO Box 217Grayling, MI 497381-800-937-8837FAX: (517) 348-7315http://www.grayling-mi.come-mail: visitor@grayling-mi.com * GRAYLING AREA INFORMATION:Grayling Regional Chamber of CommercePO Box 406Grayling, MI 49738(517) 348-2921FAX: (517) 348- 7315 * STATE WIDE MICHIGAN INFORMATIONMichigan Travel BureauPO Box 30226Lansing, MI 48909http://www.travel-michigan.state.mi.us ************Rodmakers Addition************* As was posted earlier the official Kick off for Grayrock 97 is with athursday night (6/19) picnic at the Whispering Pines Campgrounds - TheLovebug's (Frank Love) place. In case of severe weather the location willbeThe Clubhouse. River Floats - I have access to 5 AuSable riverboats and will make everyattempt to have them available for fishing from (6/14) until fridaymorningat sunrise at no charge. It is our hope that with many arriving early thatall wanting will be able to take advantage of this opportunity. After fridaymorning at sunrise the focus of the attention will be in making the gettogether a success. FYI - at this time of the year - the World famous "Hex"hatch is supposed to be underway - "Hex" fishing peaks in the middle ofthenight and we will be on the river at that time. Two years ago I floateduntil2:30am - upon loading the boat Luis looked at me and said "I don't knowhowyou did it" - you see we never used a flashlight all night long. So thosewanting to partake should start practicing tying on leader in the dark -turnthe bedroom lights off and shut yourself in the closet will simulate theneeded darkness. Use whatever explaination needed when the wife askswhat youare doing.(6/20) Scheduled activities (9 - 5) a more or less detailed list willfollow as it unfolds(6-??) Pizza Party - Homebrew Beer & Gourmet Coffee Tasting at TheClubhouse.Intended to be an educational social - Last year there was some fly tyingdemos - There will be a complete set of tools and a lot of knowledge onhowto use them.***** The Pizza Party is intended to be an event that is refrainedenoughthat those wanting to can have their families attend as well - I know minewill be there. However if you are the type of person in need of moreexcitement than this might provide - other accomadations will beprovided -Vic Edwards is hosting the Compuserve FF Forum and they have been knowtohave more of a relaxed atmosphere. (6- 21) (9 - 4) More formal get together (6-?) TTBBBQ - The aboveinformation is valid - Pre Registration is required - under certaincircumstances there will be a little flexibility on the BBQ - BUT therewillbe NO flexibility on the shirt orders because of the setup schedule andcosts.Rodmakers registration fee ($20) will cover the costs of:1) Thursday night picnic2) Friday and Saturday get together 3) Friday night Pizza Party4) Souvenir Event Apron BUT it doesn't cover the cost of TTBBQ III or the encompassing events. Wayne from jimholm@itsnet.com Tue Apr 8 22:00:35 1997 scratchy.itsnet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25465 for Subject: Re: diconnect Please disconnect. Thanks for opportunity to listen in. JimIf this isn't the correct address, could you help me? from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 8 22:04:02 1997 Subject: Information on L. & C. Regent Rod RO>Has any one got any information on the L. & C. Regent Rod. I may wantRO>ot restore it. It is serial number r-123, has one tip broken the otherRO>is fine and several guides missing. any information concerning valueRO>and etc would be appreciated. It is in a Peerless case no bag. My source book, Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook"lists the L&C Regency No. 123 as a 9' (3/2) bass action rod. This is a Heddon built rod and is the same (almost?) as a Heddon #20Bill Stanley's Favorite rod. List price was $22.50 in 1937. The ferrulesize would be a 2 1/2F, I think based upon the "bass" action. A nice rod. Value would depend upon how short the broken tip is. If less than 1.5"then value would not be greatly reduced (-10%?). If more than 1.5", butless than 4" then figure - 25%. Value for a normal unrestored condition, but 2 full-tip rod would be$120 - $160. Less if other damage. All IMHO. If interested in selling it, let me know. Don Burns from mrj@seanet.com Wed Apr 9 00:17:57 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA06047 for Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes Chris Bogart wrote: On Tue, 08 Apr 1997 13:21:32 -0700, Martin Jensen wrote: TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: This node v nodeless thread won't seem to go away, so I'm addinganother$.02. We have had Martin suggesting a density difference, and Chrissuggesting a power fiber difference. I can't come up with a reallyscientificway of testing either theory, but in the immortal words of Yogi Berra,"youcan observe a heck of a lot just by looking". I took a few untreatednodesand sawed them through the middle and then polished up the end grain.Theirstructure was much like the rest of the cane. A very thin layer of finefiber, followed by a thicker layer of coarser fiber, followed byincreasingpith. The unbroken layer of power fibers was shallower than in therest ofthe cane. The fibers were there, but went deeper into the pith. In otherwords, the pith went higher, and the power fibers went lower.I also had a reject strip around with prepared nodes, it's depth wasabout.115. The center of these nodes was all power fiber with a smallammount ofpith beginning to show at the apex. Most, but not all, of the very finefiberlayer was gone. My guess based on these few observations, is thatthereshould not be much differece in tip sections, in either power fiber ordensity. There may well be some differences in butt sections, but thedifferences will be near the center of the section, where they shouldnothave much effect. So anyway Chris, since you will probably find littlecommercial value for your bag of nodes, I suggest you cut them intolittlepieces and see if my limited observations hold up. - TomHmm,sounds like according to your observations, weight may not be all thatdifferent. I had never looked much at the nodes except to file themdown, press them and try not to break them when I straighten them. Iwassimply guessing that they were denser because they had no structuralintegrity. I tried to weigh one the other day, but I don't have a scalethat is sensitive enough to do it. Martin You can have my bag-o-nodes and weigh them and divide bythe number of nodes! See Tom - there is a use for them. Regards ChrisNot a bad idea. When I node what I want to do I will get back to you. from mrj@seanet.com Wed Apr 9 00:18:28 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA06068 for Subject: Re: Sorry everyone... Jon Lintvet wrote: I lost the list there for a couple days or so. Did anyone respondto my questions regarding polishing N.S. and wood inserts? Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman MacleanYes from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Apr 9 06:51:11 1997 Subject: RE:Are they any good? RO>I have just recently found two bamboo rods for sale in an antique shopRO>for $70.00 each. One looks to be in good shape, is a 3 piece rod aboutRO>9' long and was made by Horrocks-Ibbotson in Utica, NY. The other isRO>very similar but has no manufacturer markings. Does anyone have an RO>of the correct value of the Horrocks-Ibbotson rod. RO>Please answer to cholly@ix.netcom.com RO>Thanks RO>Chris Holly Chris, $70 is about tops unless it's one of the few high-end H-I's. Somearen't very good at all. All IMHO, Don Burns from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Wed Apr 9 07:52:43 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: propane torch Folks, I am getting ready to flame some bamboo for the first time. Can anyonerecommend a cheap but decent torch (the kind you screw on a propanebottle)? I tried the archives but I couldn't find any easy way tosearch. Mike-- Mike Ray Mike, I haven't tried this yet, but I'm planning to use a torch attachmentI bought years ago for burning pine tar into the bottoms of woodencross-country skis. It seems to be about the right shape. I don't knowif you can still buy these anywhere but you might ask around. Hope thishelps. Bob MatarazzoMelville, NY from neuneman@fh-ge.de Wed Apr 9 07:53:38 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA15934; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 14:57:48 +0200Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Tony, Scarfed wood and cane normaly break (when tested to destruction) just outside of the scarf, if the scarf is propperly made. This would suggestthe scarf stiffens the section. These are really interesting aspects. The tests I made were also to distruction. In fact I was unable to bend a strip to at least 1/3 circle, beause the scarp snapped before I could do it. In a triangular strip there are tremendous stresses in the dense power fiber layer of the strip that no glue can withstand. The stress area runs out to nothing and the ,stresses to infinity. All the breaks I had were in the scarfed area. I've been thinking about the stifness issue between nodeless and noded rods while sewing my sails and I wonder (if there indeed is a difference) if the scarf is stiffer than the non scarfed section and I think it is, this scarfed section may not only not move as much but may also resist movement of the surounding splines. By this I don't just mean bending but the slight movement of the glue line which takes place during use. A friend and I compared two rods of the same taper, that came from the same culm, same glue, same heat treatment. One nodeless, one with nodes. Both we did not find a noticable difference in stiffness. Of course I know that tests like these are questionable. Bamboo is a naturally grown material, so no two rods will be exactly the same, not to speak about measurement tolerances. I cannot imagine that a glue line of maybe 2 or 3/100 of a millimeter in thickness has any significant resistance against bending. In a nodeless rod the power fibers are interrupted but they still work the same as in a rod with nodes when the rod is flexed. A higher stiffness at the same given rod diameter (area) would require a higher resistance against bending of the material, but the bamboo is still the same in both rod types.... Frank http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Apr 9 08:15:28 1997 Subject: Re: OVEN Dan, Tom is correct-my first oven was a vertical tube with a 300 watt bulbin the bottom. It required constant monitoring and frquent reversal of thestrips- I found a 150 degree difference from top to bottom. Unless youhavesome way to circulate the air you're going to have some problems,Hank. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Apr 9 09:03:43 1997 Subject: Change of Pace All: Nodeless in Seattle has kind'a run its course - I hope? I hope tochange the subject (without too much flame mail?) over to a letter Ireceived form an European friend. It got me thinking about my fishingtrip over there. Last summer, I fished with this friend in his home waters near Ljubljanain Slovenia. A nice quiet little country tucked in just south of theAlps. The country is 100 wide and 45 miles north-to-south. Population isabout 2.5 million people total (so not a huge total # of fishers). Theydo have the largest percentage of fly fishers in all of Europe. Capitalcity, Ljubljana is only 250,000 or so. Sure beats the heck out of LA. There's something like 1000 miles of streams and 2 small lakes to fish.If anyone plans to do a European fishing tour should not miss thisplace. Maybe sell a few rods along the way? The money is hard currency(you can convert it) and is called the tolar (Our ancestors stole thename and changed it to dollar). The 1 tolar coin features a brown trout- what more need I say. My friend sent his letter in a special-cover envelope with four (firstday issue?) stamps all featuring local fish. One is a local trout,called the marble trout, found only in a few rivers that flow into theAdriatic. This beast reaches 40 - 50 lbs. Record fish was 39" and near60 lbs (I think). They also have huchen that go up to 100+ lbs - butthese are fished in deep rivers with non-fly gear. Almost all thestreams are caulk-streams and trout put on several pounds per year. Very little stocking of fish takes place (restoring the marble troutfisheries is about it). Brown trout were imported years ago and almostkilled off the marble trout. Several streams have great grayling fishing- this was first time grayling fishing for me. Took me a whole day tofigure out that grayling don't take a dry fly like a trout. Rainbows were also brought in and grow into fat pigs. I had a largerainbow break off 4X tippet on the Krka River as easily as if it wassome 7X. Average rainbows run about 4 - 5 lbs in this river! Wow! Meanwhile back in LA, local 'bows are about 4- 5 inches average. IfI fish them with 4X (or 6X) I can pretend I'm a bass-pro and just liftthe fish out of the water and swing them to shore. I need to returnto the Krka for more practice. The bad news is that the cost of fishing is quite high (isn't all ofEurope's fishing?) and an annual license fee can be as much as $2100even for locals. Tourist fishing licenses run about $45 to $75 per day,but I think maybe a few nodes will pop in a good streamside rod test? See back to the nodes. Beware the nodes of March (or April). LAter, Don Burns PS - Slovenia has a new fishing URL:http://stenar.arnes.si/guest/ljzavodrib6/ from BamboRods@aol.com Wed Apr 9 09:15:51 1997 Subject: Re: Mail order problem with builder In a message dated 4/8/97 1:47:37 AM, you wrote: Craig,How sad I was to hear that another maker has given rodbuilding a badname. Iwish I had an answer that would help you get your money back. Over theyearsI have seen quite a few makers who were fast at taking the deposit butslowon making the rod. They hurt us all. In the late '80s and early '90s rodprices increased so fast that makers who were a few years behind did notwantto fill their orders as they could sell them "off the table" to high rollers would print brochures for a number of makers for rod trade. This was agreatdeal for all involved until a known maker did not come through with hispromised rod. Now the printer will not work for rod makers. Craig, myadvise is don't forget it. Keep calling and keep up the letters. Good Luck!Jon ParkerParker Rods from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Apr 9 09:28:03 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Bandsaw use A while back I asked about objections to bandsawing culm into strips. One response pointed out that the fibres would/might be cut at an angle losing the throughflow from top to bottom. This prompts me to ask - doesn't the same problem arise in spliced nodeless construction? If so, what are the objections to nodeless, given that several makers seem to employ the technique without problems? My goal here is to increase yield from the culm and reduce the amount of planing that hand-split strips require and, while I'm in no particular hurry, I do have a bandsaw...... Opinions would be welcomed. Thanks you. ThomasP@nacm.com from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Wed Apr 9 09:43:23 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 10:43:26 EDT Subject: Re: Sorry everyone... I lost the list there for a couple days or so. Did anyone respondto my questions regarding polishing N.S. and wood inserts? Yes Would these responses be in the archive already? If not could someone repost them if they have them. Thanks. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Apr 9 09:44:54 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Binder and oven supplies I tracked down a supplier for the urethane belting for the Milward counter- rotating binder described in the archives as well as a cheap thermometer for use with Frank Neunemann's heat gun oven: MSC(800) 645 7270 Fender-Manheim Clear-Go Urethane Belting, round, 1/8" diamete, 100 feet (minimum order!)Order #: 35364660 - $24.73 Trend Bimetal Pocket Thermometer, metal case, polycarbonate crystal, 5" stem, 0.142" probe diameter. 0C to 250C. (Frank recommends 180C forheat treating, and this should be a cheap alternative to the digital thermometer he advocates.Order #: 56441025 - $11.70) They do so much volume with UPS that shipping is 2-day at no extracharge. elegant solution to the propane torch's dangers and the heat gun can beused I propose to use a Bosch 1943LED heat gun which is distinguished from the more common 1942 by an LED temperature read out and a variable heatrange setting. Acme Tools (Tool Crib of the North - 800 enquiries) carries theLED at approx. $110 - 10 day back order. The premium over the 1942 is small. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Apr 9 10:55:02 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Tsk,tsk-all this noise about nodes vs. nodeless-ya pays yer money andtakesyer cherce, from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Apr 9 14:40:04 1997 Subject: Re: Bandsaw use Thomas Pindelski wrote: A while back I asked about objections to bandsawing culm into strips. Oneresponse pointed out that the fibres would/might be cut at an anglelosingthe throughflow from top to bottom. This prompts me to ask - doesn'tthesame problem arise in spliced nodeless construction? If so, what are theobjections to nodeless, given that several makers seem to employ thetechnique without problems? My goal here is to increase yield from the culm and reduce the amount ofplaning that hand-split strips require and, while I'm in no particularhurry, I do have a bandsaw...... Opinions would be welcomed. Thanks you. ThomasP@nacm.com A most excellent point. Therefore are nodeless rods just a continuous series of grain run-outs.Only the nodes know. Or only run-outs know. Or only running knows.ZimnyZimny from bootstrap@earthlink.net Wed Apr 9 15:58:10 1997 Subject: postpone postpone .A. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster 18599 E. Louisiana Ave..AAA. Colorado Boostrap, Inc. Aurora, CO 80017.A"AAA. bootstrap@earthlink.net.A' `AAA. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.AAaaaaAAA. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626.A' `AAA. "It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,aAAa aAAAAa it's tha things we know that ain't so!" -Artemus Ward from jmitchel@wheaton.edu Wed Apr 9 16:25:22 1997 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Apr 9 16:41:42 1997 Subject: Re: UNSUBSCRIBE from owner-rodmakers@wugate Wed Apr 9 03:08:34 1997From: jmitchel@wheaton.eduSubject: UNSUBSCRIBE Just a reminder to anyone trying to unsubscribe... In the body of the message: UNSUBSCRIBE RODMAKERS That will get you unsub'ed from the list. But let me forewarn you,you'll miss us!!!! :-) Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Apr 9 18:25:57 1997 TAA04046 for ; Wed, 9 Apr 1997 19:25:52 - Subject: 4 or 5 sided rods Hi Jorge, 4/8/97 In answer to your questions, Tom and I both found glue joints difficult onquads (maybe because we both used the same planing forms?). Five-sidershowever are not at all bad. Sounds like you are launching a project similarto mine where I built Garrison 204 tapers in hex, penta and quad. Myconclusions were that the penta is quickest and, for me, best, while thequad is slower but still pretty nice. These results are not 100 percentvalid because I used geometrical conversions (same cross section area ateach station) rather than using the same stress curve for each.Can I ask what your plans are for tapers, and where you got your forms?It seems to me that rods as short as 6 feet are rather specialty items. Doyou think they will yield significant performance comparisons data?No, I don't plan to be at the Ontario gathering. Travel is not easy for methese days and besides I have a love affair with the local mayfly hatches.Am taking the liberty of putting this on the list in case others may beinterested. Bill from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Apr 9 21:47:38 1997 Thu, 10 Apr 1997 10:47:27 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless On Wed, 9 Apr 1997, Frank Neunemann wrote: Tony, Scarfed wood and cane normaly break (when tested to destruction) just outside of the scarf, if the scarf is propperly made. This would suggestthe scarf stiffens the section. These are really interesting aspects. The tests I made were also to distruction. In fact I was unable to bend a strip to at least 1/3 circle, beause the scarp snapped before I could do it. In a triangular strip there are tremendous stresses in the dense power fiber layer of thestrip that no glue can withstand. The stress area runs out to nothing and the ,stresses to infinity. All the breaks I had were in the scarfed area. I use a 1:22 scarf and resorcinol. The ratio wasn't decided upon it's just what looked right when I made the scarfing block. I haven't broken any scarfs with this arrangement but as you've done the testing it must be so. I wonder though if the scarf breaks before a node would? I've been thinking about the stifness issue between nodeless and noded rods while sewing my sails and I wonder (if there indeed is adifference) if the scarf is stiffer than the non scarfed section and I think it is, this scarfed section may not only not move as much but may also resist movement of the surounding splines. By this I don't just mean bendingbut the slight movement of the glue line which takes place during use. A friend and I compared two rods of the same taper, that came from the same culm, same glue, same heat treatment. One nodeless, one withnodes. Both we did not find a noticable difference in stiffness. Of course I know that tests like these are questionable. Bamboo is a naturally grown material, so no two rods will be exactly the same, not to speak about measurement tolerances.I'm not too sure about this stiffness thing relating to noded or nodeless I cannot imagine that a glue line of maybe 2 or 3/100 of a millimeter in thickness has any significant resistance against bending. In a nodeless rod the power fibers are interrupted but they still work the same as in a rod with nodes when the rod is flexed. I wonder how miniaml effect of a thin glue line is? I can't test this but in wood at least which is easier to relate to as the thickness are greater so the effects are more obvious a scarfed joint will normaly be "harder" at the bend than a solid piece. Meaning the jointed section will sometimes not follow the exact same curve, it sometimes flattens a little. What I'm thinking is that up to the point of destruction, in fact a long way short of that as in a rod being used, this may have an effect. A higher stiffness at the same given rod diameter (area) would require a higher resistance against bending of the material, but the bamboo is still the same in both rod types.... Agreed, but it is hard to tell which prob means it dosn't realy matter apart from personal tase. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from JHecht9234@aol.com Wed Apr 9 23:06:50 1997 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes You could send the Bag-O-Nodes to the Node Lovers Group. Someone couldsplice them all together and make the world's first All Node Rod (I canalready hear the argument: "It's easier to build Nodefull -- you don't haveto waste time staggering or worry about those internodal sweeps!"). from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Apr 10 10:47:48 1997 ESMTP id KAA07289 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA25917 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id VPPWBIAH; Thu,10 Apr 1997 10:47:08 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Wayne's binder kits Jerry Foster was telling me that Wayne is selling binder kits. Does anyoneknowhow much they are and what style binder? I e-mailed Wayne privately afew daysago but no response. Also, I heard he has an oven kit as well. How much for this one? Mica stripstyle? Thanks Don from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Apr 10 11:13:24 1997 Subject: RE: 4 or 5 sided rods RO>Hi Jorge, 4/8/97RO> In answer to your questions, Tom and I both found glue jointsdifficult onRO>quads (maybe because we both used the same planing forms?). Five-sidersRO>however are not at all bad. Sounds like you are launching a projectsimilarRO>to mine where I built Garrison 204 tapers in hex, penta and quad. MyRO>conclusions were that the penta is quickest and, for me, best, whiletheRO>quad is slower but still pretty nice. These results are not 100 percentRO>valid because I used geometrical conversions (same cross section areaatRO>each station) rather than using the same stress curve for each.RO> Can I ask what your plans are for tapers, and where you got yourforms?RO> It seems to me that rods as short as 6 feet are rather specialtyitems. DoRO>you think they will yield significant performance comparisons data?RO> No, I don't plan to be at the Ontario gathering. Travel is not easy formeRO>these days and besides I have a love affair with the local mayflyhatches.RO> Am taking the liberty of putting this on the list in case others may beRO>interested. Bill I met a rod builder (out here in LA) that made a 5 side rod out of 2quad strips and 3 hex strips (or the other order?) - he ended up with alop-sided rod but he claimed it casts okay. Anyone else ever try this? Don B. from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Apr 10 11:13:40 1997 with ESMTP id LAA01168 for ; Thu, 10 Apr robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA04737 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id VKQMABCM; Thu,10 Apr 1997 11:12:53 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Tung oil I'm nearing completion of my first rod and I have some beginnersquestions. I'dlike to use tung oil for the finish, but I don't know what brand or where toget it. Also, how many coats, spaced how far in time apart? I've heardsomeramblings on this subject, but nothing definitive. It seems like those of uswho like the tung oil look are in the minority. Finally, is all the tung oil applied before wrapping? Also, what is used tofinish the wraps? Any other info or sources of info would be appreciated. Don from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 10 11:19:29 1997 Subject: FS - Clemens rod lathe I've decided that I'm not using my Clemen rod lathe very much - if anyoneisinterested in buying it, please email me directly so as not to take of a lotof the rodmakers bandwidth. General details: One only, used Clemens 4' rod lathe (see Clemens Catalog page 60 -61 formoredetails). I've mounted it to a 4' wood/formica base with non-slide corktreads. Complete with: 3 jaw chuck (standard)Foot pedal speed control (standard)Belt drive 1/15 hp variable speed motor (std)Two adjustable rod supports (old style - non ballbearing sleds) - Std plusone extra(1) extra 2' extension rail (allows use with rod sections up to about 6')(1) spare drive v-belt (new) + some new o- rings for plastic wheels (goesaround the wheels which are in contact with the rod)(1) Manual Works on 115 VAC 60HZ - 1 phase power ---> normal USA house juice. Note: Clemens sells many options for this lathe (tail stock center, boringtools, thread carriages and etc. - but I DO NOT own them. Buy them direct).The rod supports can be converted to new-style ball-bearing type, but I'venever seen the need since they slide fine on the rail now. List price (1997 catalog) is $311.19 plus over $100 in options (2nd rodsupport and extension). In excellent condition. Selling price --- $195 plus S&H ( from LA & a pure guess on shipping wt.isabout 20 - 30 lbs) Cash, check (must clear) or Postal M.O. THX Don Burns PS - Clemens # (610) 395-5119 from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Thu Apr 10 11:20:12 1997 with BSMTP id 9337; Thu, 10 Apr 97 12:18:44 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 3606; Thu, 10 Apr1997 12:18:43 -0400Subject: Re: Change of Pace Don, Interesting details on your experience inSlovenia. What kind of rods to folks there preferand did you find any interesting new fly patterns?Do you know what a typical graphite or cane rod wouldcost there? (Could I partially finance a trip byselling a few rods?) Any problem with language? Bob. from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Thu Apr 10 11:27:01 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA23623 for; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:26:57 -0400 Subject: RE: 4 or 5 sided rods I met a rod builder (out here in LA) that made a 5 side rod out of 2quad strips and 3 hex strips (or the other order?) - he ended up with alop-sided rod but he claimed it casts okay. Anyone else ever try this? and to think Darryl H. says he's on the lunatic fringe....Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from Barry_Demmers@radian.com Thu Apr 10 12:21:00 1997 MAA13125 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 12:19:17 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 000996E6; Thu, 10 Apr 9712:20:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Tung oil Don,If you receive this info privately, please copy me. I am curious about these same answers for similar reasons. ThanksBarry ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Tung oilAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at INTERNET I'm nearing completion of my first rod and I have some beginnersquestions. I'd like to use tung oil for the finish, but I don't know what brand or where to get it. Also, how many coats, spaced how far in time apart? I've heardsome ramblings on this subject, but nothing definitive. It seems like those of us who like the tung oil look are in the minority. Finally, is all the tung oil applied before wrapping? Also, what is used to finish the wraps? Any other info or sources of info would be appreciated. Don from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Apr 10 13:18:23 1997 Subject: RE(2): 4 or 5 sided rods RO>> I met a rod builder (out here in LA) that made a 5 side rod out of 2RO>> quad strips and 3 hex strips (or the other order?) - he ended up withaRO>> lop-sided rod but he claimed it casts okay. Anyone else ever try this? RO>and to think Darryl H. says he's on the lunatic fringe....RO>Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)RO>Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalRO>Dept. Of Biomedical Engineering Well - you know we are in LA-LA land - the land of fruits and nuts. GeeI can't remember if it has nodes or not. Don Burns from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Apr 10 13:52:43 1997 ESMTP id NAA25997 for ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA01773 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id IJSBCHCS; Thu,10 Apr 1997 13:51:58 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: re: Tung oil Continuing my musings on tung oil vs. varnish. One of the reasons I don't like the idea of varnishing is because of theelaborate dip setup that appears to be a requirement in order to get asatinsmooth finish. That and I just really love the look of rubbed rods vs. shiny,dare I say plastic-looking finish on varnished rods. Now, if there were awayof obtainging a less glossy tung oil-like finish with varnish I'd be glad toentertain the idea. Correct me if I'm wrong but the main drawback of tung oil is the multiplerubbings required to get a good waterproof finish--I've read it takes up toamonth. Is this right, or is there a quicker way that yields good results?Also,how does tung oil compare to varnish in long-term finish life/mostureresistance? Sorry to take up bandwidth with simple questions but I can find no goodwrittencomparisons between tung oil and varnish. Thanks in advance for your help. Don ------------------Original text I'm nearing completion of my first rod and I have some beginnersquestions. I'dlike to use tung oil for the finish, but I don't know what brand or where toget it. Also, how many coats, spaced how far in time apart? I've heardsomeramblings on this subject, but nothing definitive. It seems like those of uswho like the tung oil look are in the minority. Finally, is all the tung oil applied before wrapping? Also, what is used tofinish the wraps? Any other info or sources of info would be appreciated. Don from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 10 14:37:52 1997 Subject: Re: 4 or 5 sided rods In a message dated 97-04-10 13:48:19 EDT, you write: I met a rod builder (out here in LA) that made a 5 side rod out of 2quad strips and 3 hex strips (or the other order?) - he ended up with alop-sided rod but he claimed it casts okay. Anyone else ever try this? and to think Darryl H. says he's on the lunatic fringe....Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org) Hoo Boy! Not that lunatic....Darryl from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Apr 10 14:40:12 1997 Subject: Matte Finish Don...... My last two rods have a spar varnish finish with a matte finish....and theywere done with gloss varnish. Each coat was wiped on...could easily havebeen brushed. The gloss was knocked off each coat with #600 paper. Thisalsocured the uneven varnish areas. The final coat was rubbed down with 4-0steel wool which gave a very attractive matte finish. The guides andwrapswere then put on and the wraps varnished with the same spar varnish. IusedBehr Super Spar for this work. I liked the methgod because I can work onthefinish in a temperature controlled environment in the house with a diptube.Use a tube with a 100-watt bulb as a heater to speed the varnishcure....sure helps in this Georgia weather. Karl HubeMarietta, Georgia from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 10 14:51:01 1997 Subject: Re: Tung oil In a message dated 97-04-10 12:44:54 EDT, you write: I use tung oil unless someone wants a dipped in varnish rod.All the woodcrafting catalogs have a variety of tung oils tochoose from. The polmerized tung oils dry quicker and havea shinier finish than pure tung oil. As for coats and such, Iput on at least 6, and follow the directions on the can as faras how far apart. There are tung oils with polyurethane varnishin them and they give a very shiny finish, and you can wipe themon with a rag if you want. Pure tung oil gives a very dull finish, butif you don't like it you can put something else over it later. No harmno foul... Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Apr 10 15:29:42 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 13:29:29 -0700 Subject: tung oil 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC45B3.37F33700" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC45B3.37F33700 polymerized tung oil, unless it says it is cut with petroleum distillates, is pure tung oil.When you polymerize tung oil you go from short molecules to long chain molecules. Made polymerized tung oil at the violin shop I worked at. Tung oil is a water resistant and heat resistant penetrating varnish. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC45B3.37F33700 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC45B3.37F33700-- from maiello@yorku.ca Thu Apr 10 15:46:16 1997 (fRZj3/qoUNSJUWAmgrhi7hQAPVVLflqX@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.4/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA28413 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: tung oil How did you polymerize it?MAuro On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: polymerized tung oil, unless it says it is cut with petroleum distillates, is pure tung oil.When you polymerize tung oil you go from short molecules to long chain molecules. Made polymerized tung oil at the violin shop I worked at. Tung oil is a water resistant and heat resistant penetrating varnish. Patrick from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Apr 10 16:10:07 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 14:09:43 -0700 Subject: RE: tung oil 4.0.994.63 we aireated the tung oil with a aquarium pump in full sunlight. Foundthis out from the catgut acoustical society,experts from Yale andHarvard, on how to do it. Worked like a charm ----------From: Mauro Aiello[SMTP:maiello@yorku.ca]Sent: Thursday, April 10, 1997 1:46 PM Subject: Re: tung oil How did you polymerize it?MAuro On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: polymerized tung oil, unless it says it is cut with petroleum distillates, is pure tung oil.When you polymerize tung oil you go from short molecules to long chain molecules. Made polymerized tung oil at the violin shop I worked at. Tung oil is a water resistant and heat resistant penetrating varnish. Patrick from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Apr 10 16:40:27 1997 Subject: re: Tung oil At 13:51 10/04/97 -0700, Don wrote:Continuing my musings on tung oil vs. varnish. One of the reasons I don't like the idea of varnishing is because of theelaborate dip setup that appears to be a requirement in order to get asatinsmooth finish. That and I just really love the look of rubbed rods vs.shiny,dare I say plastic-looking finish on varnished rods. Now, if there were awayof obtainging a less glossy tung oil-like finish with varnish I'd be glad toentertain the idea. Use tung oil if you want a cheap and easily way to complete a rod finish -Does a resonable job of protecting the rod BUT of all the finishes outthere, it does the worst job of protecting the rod from hummidity pickup.Infact according to fine Woodworking mag., of 21 finishes tested, tung oilwasfourth from the bottom in protection with nearly no resistance tomoistureuptake at all. If you are fishing in the desert areas of the US, it maybe OK- but if you expect rain - get it under cover.The best protection is still gloss polyurethane varnish - rub the gloss offwith either 4F rottenstone or a product that auto repainters use to removegloss. The auto repainters stuff works the best and is about $ 7.00US - onejug should last about 20 rods. Correct me if I'm wrong but the main drawback of tung oil is the multiplerubbings required to get a good waterproof finish--I've read it takes upto amonth. Is this right, or is there a quicker way that yields good results?Also,how does tung oil compare to varnish in long-term finish life/mostureresistance? See above - tung oil is bad. Looks OK though. Sorry to take up bandwidth with simple questions but I can find no goodwrittencomparisons between tung oil and varnish. Thanks in advance for yourhelp. If you are looking for comparisions of various finishes - Fine WoodworkingMay/June 1987 issue has a definitive article entitles Protecting WoodfromHumidity that compares finishes of all types. It's an eyeopener. regards, Don Andersen Don ------------------Original text From: Don DeLoach , on 4/10/97 11:12 AM:I'm nearing completion of my first rod and I have some beginnersquestions. I'dlike to use tung oil for the finish, but I don't know what brand or where toget it. Also, how many coats, spaced how far in time apart? I've heardsomeramblings on this subject, but nothing definitive. It seems like those ofuswho like the tung oil look are in the minority. Finally, is all the tung oil applied before wrapping? Also, what is used tofinish the wraps? Any other info or sources of info would be appreciated. Don from cpence@mwci.net Thu Apr 10 16:42:04 1997 Subject: Re: Mail order problem with builder Jon, Thanks for the encouragement and kind words. Bob is a nice fella, atleast on the phone, and things may finally work out. TL's -- Craig>> Craig,How sad I was to hear that another maker has given rodbuilding a badname. Iwish I had an answer that would help you get your money back. Over theyearsI have seen quite a few makers who were fast at taking the deposit butslowon making the rod. They hurt us all. In the late '80s and early '90s rodprices increased so fast that makers who were a few years behind didnot wantto fill their orders as they could sell them "off the table" to high rollers andwould print brochures for a number of makers for rod trade. This was agreatdeal for all involved until a known maker did not come through with hispromised rod. Now the printer will not work for rod makers. Craig, myadvise is don't forget it. Keep calling and keep up the letters. Good Luck!Jon ParkerParker Rods from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Apr 10 17:29:25 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Behr Spar Varnish Karl Hube - I was interested in your posting about the use of Behr Spar Varnish. Mindful of some of Wayne's warnings that not all varnishes are equal (he recommended PP&G products) I'm wondering if you can shareyour experiences with Behr, how it holds up to use, etc. I ask as it's readily available at my local Home Depot! Thanks, ThomasP@nacm.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 10 18:17:48 1997 Subject: Luis says Thanks I just got off the phone with Luis Marden and things are going better.The virus he has is fading away and he is out of the Hospital. He greatlyappreciated the E-mail that everyone sent - they were a lift to his spiritand he asked that I send a Thank You to all. Luis is totally convinced thatbamboo rodmakers are special folks and you have all went out of your waytoprove him right. Thank You Wayne from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Apr 10 18:30:55 1997 Subject: Re: Tung oil Don -I have been under the impression that tung oil is just about THE mostwaterproof finish you can get, (polyurethane perhaps not included) andseveral net companies finish their wood nets with tung oil. When FW didtheir tests, how many coats of tung oil were applied, and how long dideach coat dry before recoating?Once again, there is a difference between "water proof" and humidityproof. Would like to know more, cause I love tung oil. Brian from jonrc@atlantic.net Thu Apr 10 18:39:57 1997 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA25407 for; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:44:20 -0400 rio.atlantic.net (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id TAA32585 for; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 19:39:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Tung oil Don DeLoach wrote: I'm nearing completion of my first rod and I have some beginnersquestions. I'dlike to use tung oil for the finish, but I don't know what brand or wheretoget it. Also, how many coats, spaced how far in time apart? I've heardsomeramblings on this subject, but nothing definitive. It seems like those ofuswho like the tung oil look are in the minority. Finally, is all the tung oil applied before wrapping? Also, what is used tofinish the wraps? Any other info or sources of info would be appreciated. Don Don, I use tung oil on all my rods. I like the finish it gives me, it'seasy to use and very durable. I've been using Behlen pure tung oil from Garret Wade and have been veryhappy with the results. I put 10 to 12 coats on. I apply a coat to allsections of the blank with my fingers, I light coat is all you need.Then I wait 30 to 60 min. and wipe most of it off. Change the rag youare wiping with often, YOU DON'T WANT much left after wiping the blankdown, just a thin coat. I let this dry and repeat every day for 10 days.After 5 or 6 coats I make sure the finish is smooth with a very finesteel wool. After 10 or 11 coats I wrap the guides and use a tung oilbased varnish to coat the wraps. When everything is dry I often put afinal very, very thin coat of tung oil on and rub out the finish. The untreated tung oil ( not polmerized) will give you a smooth satinfinish that I prefer over the high gloss finishes. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water. Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Apr 10 18:40:36 1997 Subject: New acquisition Hiya -I've just acquired a 9.5' (10' with the fighting-butt/grip extension)L.L. Bean "Atlantic Salmon." It's a 3 piece, 2 tips (one broken-offright below the tip-top with tip-top missing) dark honey cane, redtipped gold with red intermediates every inch for the entire rod. NSD/L reel seat with a black bakelite spacer, red agate stripper, bronze(?) snake guides, darkened NS ferrules that are beefed-up in the middleof the females. Very good condition. Took it out on the lawn and casta #8 line, action's not fast, but you can cast the whole line wihouthurting yourself.Does anybody know anything about this rod? Thanks for your help. Brian from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 10 18:51:37 1997 ; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:00:42 -0400 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes John (nodes are my friend) Zimny Here is a neat project for you. If nodes don't make a differencethen this should be a great rod - but then again - if they do . . . . . You could send the Bag-O-Nodes to the Node Lovers Group. Someone couldsplice them all together and make the world's first All Node Rod (I canalready hear the argument: "It's easier to build Nodefull -- you don't haveto waste time staggering or worry about those internodal sweeps!"). Regards Chris from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Apr 10 19:35:43 1997 Subject: Re: tung oil Coffey, Patrick W wrote: we aireated the tung oil with a aquarium pump in full sunlight. Foundthis out from the catgut acoustical society,experts from Yale andHarvard, on how to do it. Worked like a charm ----------From: Mauro Aiello[SMTP:maiello@yorku.ca]Sent: Thursday, April 10, 1997 1:46 PM Subject: Re: tung oil How did you polymerize it?MAuro On Thu, 10 Apr 1997, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: polymerized tung oil, unless it says it is cut with petroleumdistillates, is pure tung oil.When you polymerize tung oil you go from short molecules to long chain molecules. Made polymerized tungoil at the violin shop I worked at. Tung oil is a water resistant andheat resistant penetrating varnish. Patrick Mauro,You can do the same thing with linseed oil. It then becomes "boiled" linseed oil. Linseed oil is not boiled, it is "blown" with air bubbles.Almost any vegetable oil will do this. John from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Apr 10 19:35:55 1997 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes Chris Bogart wrote: John (nodes are my friend) Zimny Here is a neat project for you. If nodes don't make a differencethen this should be a great rod - but then again - if they do . . . . . You could send the Bag-O-Nodes to the Node Lovers Group. Someonecouldsplice them all together and make the world's first All Node Rod (I canalready hear the argument: "It's easier to build Nodefull -- you don'thaveto waste time staggering or worry about those internodal sweeps!"). Regards Chris Rember Chris, rods without nodes means lots of grain "run-out". Let thelittle nodes nestle in the rod and make it stronger. After all, the nods know.Straigt grain,John (Dances with Nodes) Zimny from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 10 20:20:05 1997 Subject: Re: New acquisition In a message dated 97-04-10 19:47:05 EDT, you write: Subj: New acquisitionDate: 97-04-10 19:47:05 EDTFrom: mcreek@sirus.com (brian & michelle creek)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hiya -I've just acquired a 9.5' (10' with the fighting-butt/grip extension)L.L. Bean "Atlantic Salmon." It's a 3 piece, 2 tips (one broken-offright below the tip-top with tip-top missing) dark honey cane, redtipped gold with red intermediates every inch for the entire rod. NSD/L reel seat with a black bakelite spacer, red agate stripper, bronze(?) snake guides, darkened NS ferrules that are beefed-up in the middleof the females. Very good condition. Took it out on the lawn and casta #8 line, action's not fast, but you can cast the whole line wihouthurting yourself.Does anybody know anything about this rod? Thanks for your help. Brian I'd call LL Bean first and see what they can tell you. The broken tip and missing tiptop aren't to bad as long as the tip is only aninch or so short. Just fit a new tiptop to the broken end - try to match thetiptop to the other one as far as the line opening hole size. Perfectionmadeonly small opeings until recently. Don Burns Depending upon the spacer and reelseat you should be able to determinethemfg. I know Montague made reinforced ferrule rod, used extension butts,hadplastic spacers and made rods for many companies. But then so did manyothers. If there's a bag and it's green with purple thread - I'd say it's a Montaguebuilt rod. from jfoster@gte.net Thu Apr 10 20:29:06 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id UAA12516 for; Thu, 10 Apr 1997 20:29:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Tung oil Terrance has another option but i think he's hiding out Jerry from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 10 20:29:30 1997 Subject: RE: rod lathe - FS Thanks fellows, I've had 3 people interested in the lathe. I think one ofthese 3 will buy it. Don Burns from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Fri Apr 11 02:54:25 1997 (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) "FS - Clemens rod lathe" (Apr 10, 12:18pm) Subject: Re: FS - Clemens rod lathe Hello Don I'm interested in your rod lathe I living in Switzerland but I will be in St.Francisco end of this month so let me know if I can have it. Angel On Apr 10, 12:18pm, Canerods@aol.com wrote:Subject: FS - Clemens rod latheI've decided that I'm not using my Clemen rod lathe very much - if anyoneisinterested in buying it, please email me directly so as not to take of alotof the rodmakers bandwidth. General details: One only, used Clemens 4' rod lathe (see Clemens Catalog page 60 -61 formoredetails). I've mounted it to a 4' wood/formica base with non-slide corktreads. Complete with: 3 jaw chuck (standard)Foot pedal speed control (standard)Belt drive 1/15 hp variable speed motor (std)Two adjustable rod supports (old style - non ballbearing sleds) - Stdplusone extra(1) extra 2' extension rail (allows use with rod sections up to about 6')(1) spare drive v-belt (new) + some new o- rings for plastic wheels (goesaround the wheels which are in contact with the rod)(1) Manual Works on 115 VAC 60HZ - 1 phase power ---> normal USA house juice. Note: Clemens sells many options for this lathe (tail stock center, boringtools, thread carriages and etc. - but I DO NOT own them. Buy themdirect).The rod supports can be converted to new-style ball-bearing type, butI'venever seen the need since they slide fine on the rail now. List price (1997 catalog) is $311.19 plus over $100 in options (2nd rodsupport and extension). In excellent condition. Selling price --- $195 plus S&H ( from LA & a pure guess on shippingwt. isabout 20 - 30 lbs) Cash, check (must clear) or Postal M.O. THX Don Burns PS - Clemens # (610) 395-5119 -- End of excerpt from Canerods@aol.com -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 11 08:55:55 1997 Subject: 4 vs 5 vs 6 This is primarily for Jorge C., who is probably terribly confused at thispoint. Jorge is building a set of 4, 5, &6 strip rods and asked Bill Fink andmyself for advice on how to proceed. As many of you know, Bill and myselfoften collaborate on these projects. In this case, a bit of controversyexists in the approach we take. Both points of view have some validity,andalso some pitfalls. My approach for someone starting out as Jorge is is tobuild the rods with equal cross sections, the same weight and distributionofcane in each rods. Bill favors building to the same stress curves. This willgive you more cane in the 5 strip, less in the 4, and in theory anyway, thesame line size. In my view the equal cross section method gives you abetterlook at the difference in the character of the different geometries, and inmy opinion the actions in terms of line weights will be closer together.Thefive will feel a bit stiffer,and the 4 will have an interesting,slowerswinging power. The pitfall is that the stresses in the 5 will be higherthanthe 6, so if the 6 was close to the limits, the 5 will be over them. Youneedto be careful when selecting the 6 strip taper to start with.Bill's stress curve approach yields a 5 strip that is much faster than the 6strip. I don't see a problem here, in that I think most people would nothavea problem with the faster rods. I like them a lot myself, but I would fishthem a line size heavier than what the program says. Bill shudders when Isuggest this. The pitfall in Bill's method is the 4 strip. The stresses areso low, that the program gives you a light rod, that most people would findtoo slow. Those of you who were at the Catskills 2 years ago mayrememberthat we cast Bill's one piece 4wgt 4 strip with a 6 weight line. It cast itwell, but was very slow. So that's the story Jorge, I still feel that myapproach is best for you, Bill will be delighted to argue just the opposite.I might add here that this is only about starting out and gaining the feel withdifferent tapers for the 4's and 5's. That is a whole different discussion.--Tom from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Fri Apr 11 10:25:02 1997 Subject: scraper vs sanding Garrison recommends using a 212 scraper for removing the enamel priorto finalplaning. Most others I have talked with use sandpaper and a sandingblock--which how I have done it (probably due to Wayne's advice). Cananyonethink of disadvantages to using a scraper to remove enamel? It certainlyisfaster and I would think less likely to round off corners or alter theflatnessof the enamel side. -- Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Fri Apr 11 11:48:29 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Bevellers Does anyone know of any plans for bevellers for machining split cane in contrast to the planening/form approach? Thanks. ThomasP@nacm.com from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Fri Apr 11 12:18:00 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA421 0400 Subject: Re: 4 vs 5 vs 6 From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: 4 vs 5 vs 6 This is primarily for Jorge C., who is probably terribly confused at thispoint. Jorge is building a set of 4, 5, &6 strip rods and asked Bill Finkandmyself for advice on how to proceed. As many of you know, Bill andmyselfoften collaborate on these projects. In this case, a bit of controversyexists in the approach we take. Both points of view have some validity,andalso some pitfalls. My approach for someone starting out as Jorge is istobuild the rods with equal cross sections, the same weight anddistribution ofcane in each rods. Bill favors building to the same stress curves. Thiswillgive you more cane in the 5 strip, less in the 4, and in theory anyway,thesame line size. In my view the equal cross section method gives you abetterlook at the difference in the character of the different geometries, andinmy opinion the actions in terms of line weights will be closer together.Thefive will feel a bit stiffer,and the 4 will have an interesting,slowerswinging power. The pitfall is that the stresses in the 5 will be higherthanthe 6, so if the 6 was close to the limits, the 5 will be over them. Youneedto be careful when selecting the 6 strip taper to start with.Bill's stress curve approach yields a 5 strip that is much faster than the6strip. I don't see a problem here, in that I think most people would nothavea problem with the faster rods. I like them a lot myself, but I would fishthem a line size heavier than what the program says. Bill shudders whenIsuggest this. The pitfall in Bill's method is the 4 strip. The stresses areso low, that the program gives you a light rod, that most people wouldfindtoo slow. Those of you who were at the Catskills 2 years ago mayrememberthat we cast Bill's one piece 4wgt 4 strip with a 6 weight line. It cast itwell, but was very slow. So that's the story Jorge, I still feel that myapproach is best for you, Bill will be delighted to argue just theopposite.I might add here that this is only about starting out and gaining the feel withdifferent tapers for the 4's and 5's. That is a whole differentdiscussion.- -Tom Just to clarify where this all began, I am currently building three rods from the same culm that will be 6 feet long one piece construction. I have used a hex taper and come up with corresponding 4 and 5 sided tapers - all using the same crossectional area. All three rods are now preliminary planed ready for heat treating. The idea is to have these rods complete for the Rodgathering in Elora, Ontario (1 hour west of Toronto) May 30-31, 1997. The rods are a project/experiment that has been on the waiting shelf for several years now (back in 1995?) after purchasing the metal forms from Colorado Bootstrap via Zimny's hard work and efforts. To date, some observations come to mind. First the four sidedsplines are much more fragile especially the edges. Binding the splines is a little tricky on the 4's. The curvature of the cane plays a greater importance on 4 sided. Straightness is hardest to achieve on the 4's. Setting forms for 4's and 5's is an elaborate process because each requires is a pair of forms that must be set ala Barnes/Fink/Knott using drill bits/balls (see PF) - ie there are no depth gauges for direct measurements. Instead multiple calculations are necessary to do the setting process. Anyways this is as far as I have gone, the sticks are ready for heat treating and I will begin final planing this weekend - if anyone has any suggestions I would appreciate hearing from them. JorgeCarcao@myna.com (PS. - Thanks to all those who have responded to date I will get back to thank each of you when I can in the future) from mattj@barnum.ultranet.com Fri Apr 11 12:38:33 1997 Subject: Ferrule Removal Question A quick question about removing ferrules. I have a rather cheap cane rodthat I am restoring. According to the Sinclair book, the pin holding theferrules should be removed using a gunsmith's punch. I have no idea whatagunsmith punch is or where I would ever get one. What would be a suitablealternative tool? Will an awl and a hammer suffice or is that too risky?And once I've got the pin out of the way, is it just a matter of heating andpulling the ferrule off, just like with the reel seat and tip top? TIA,Matt Jorgensenmattj@ultranet.com from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Apr 11 13:32:34 1997 Subject: RE:Ferrule Removal Question RO>A quick question about removing ferrules. I have a rather cheap canerodRO>that I am restoring. According to the Sinclair book, the pin holding theRO>ferrules should be removed using a gunsmith's punch. I have no ideawhat aRO>gunsmith punch is or where I would ever get one. What would be asuitableRO>alternative tool? Will an awl and a hammer suffice or is that toorisky?RO>And once I've got the pin out of the way, is it just a matter of heatingandRO>pulling the ferrule off, just like with the reel seat and tip top? RO>TIA,RO>Matt JorgensenRO>mattj@ultranet.com I believe you'd open the hole up with a awl, since it is tapered. Any~0.039" steel wire gripped in a metal pin-vise -- might work. The punchyou need is a Brownells starter punch in 0.039" -- P/N 080-513-039 @$6.08 and if you want spare pins - P/N 080-513-639 @ $6.45/6 pins. If the pin is above the ferrule now and you are very lucky - you mightbe able to grip or in-bed (?) the pin with a single-sided razor blade(or two) and then try to lever the pin out. Watch out for your eyes ifthe blade(s) break. Brownells # (515) 623-5401 After driving the pin in so that the ferrule will clear the pin - thenheat and remove the ferrule. Don't twist the ferrule - straight pullshould be used. Good luck, Don Burns from khube@benmeadows.com Fri Apr 11 15:00:41 1997 Subject: Re: Behr Spar Varnish At 03:25 PM 4/10/97 PDT, you wrote: Karl Hube - I was interested in your posting about the use of Behr Spar Varnish. Mindful of some of Wayne's warnings that not all varnishes are equal (he recommended PP&G products) I'm wondering if you can shareyour experiences with Behr, how it holds up to use, etc. I ask as it's readily available at my local Home Depot! Thanks, ThomasP@nacm.com =========================================================================Thomas.......I have one rod that has been in service for several years witha Behr gloss finish. It has been thrashed around in the bushes of NorthGeorgia and East Tennessee with any ill effect. A couple of newer rodswitha buffed matte finish (same gloss Behr used) look good, to, but they havenot been around long enough to make long-term evaluations, However, I amconfident enough to be using it on a Garrison 190 taper....will actually putthe first coat on this weekend. I recall that mention has been made of good results with Behrpolyeurethane,too. And you are right...it is a few minutes away at Home Depot !! Karl Hube from jsmm@interaccess.com Fri Apr 11 17:45:48 1997 RAA15423 for ; Fri, 11 Apr 1997 17:45:30 Subject: Archive help I'm struggling trying to access the archives. I've checked the help file,but can't figure out the correct syntax to retrieve files from the archive.Sorry for wasting anyone's time, but help would be appreciated. I did abang up job of messing up my computer and having to reinstall someitems,internet mail being one of the lost items. Thanks,Matt from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Apr 11 18:01:41 1997 Subject: Re: Archive help Go to the Rodmakers page http://HOME1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmand just click on an icon.Way easier than trying to pull them off of the list server.Brian from jfoster@gte.net Fri Apr 11 19:08:38 1997 Subject: Re:correction TerryExcuse me for misspelling your name the other eve. Terance SorryJerry from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 11 19:38:04 1997 Subject: Re: Tung oil Jerry,I hope Terrence doesn't hide out to long -I enjoy his postings-they tendto make me think about the process, etc.Hank. from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Sat Apr 12 12:46:42 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 11:45:10 MDT #19314) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, Subject: Compatibility I have put 4 coats of Tung-oil on a 2nd Banty and after some of the recentthreads concerning varnish vs tung-oil I've decided to use varnish or urethane. My question is do I have to restrip the rod or are either of thesetwo compatible with tung-oil? Thanks in advance.gerald(jerry)johnson from Canerods@aol.com Sat Apr 12 16:11:55 1997 Subject: Re: Change of Pace In a message dated 97-04-10 15:21:02 EDT, you write: Subj: Re: Change of PaceDate: 97-04-10 15:21:02 EDTFrom: RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Robert Milardo)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Don, Interesting details on your experience inSlovenia. What kind of rods to folks there preferand did you find any interesting new fly patterns?Do you know what a typical graphite or cane rod wouldcost there? (Could I partially finance a trip byselling a few rods?) Any problem with language? Bob. Bob, The fellow I fished with had a Hardy 8 wt rod and Orvis Battenkill disk- drapreel for his rod and I think his wife's rod/reel was the same. He justboughta new Sage RPL+ rod. Imported it himself. No fly shops in the country, Ithink. I got a gray sedge fly from them - my elk-hair caddis outfished it. As for financing a trip? The average income is something like $6000/yearinSlovenia - # of rods sold might not pay for a trip. But there's a lot of"new" money there too. So?? Surf the Slovenia URL and maybe post an inquiry to them - they might beableto help. Note: this URL just changed addresses - just follow the thread. Ifaguy named Bojan answers, that's my friend. Don PS - I missed getting the lathe to MAil Boxes before they closed - I'll tryagain early monday and get back to you witht he shipping fee. Don from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sat Apr 12 16:56:46 1997 Subject: Re: Change of Pace Opps - sorry for putting my last on the list-serv. Don from holmesr@mwr.kic.or.jp Sat Apr 12 18:41:47 1997 Subject: help no messages coming thru about a week ago i stopped getting email from rodmakers, where i normaly receive 10-13 everyday i've had none, i re-subscribed thinking i mayhave been bounced somehow and an error came back saying i'm alreadyon the rodmakers listproc. how or what do i need to do to start receivingthe messages again??? i miss the group..wes in okinawa japan from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Apr 12 18:53:39 1997 TAA20875 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 19:53:32 Subject: 4, 5 &6 siders Hi Jorge, 4/11/97Can't argue with Tom's message. He makes valid points. Just wish he'dstoptrying to beat up on my five siders with one line size too heavy.Two questions remain:1. Are six footers adequate rods on which to base performancejudgments?After all, when the 9 inches under cork and the 6 inch tip deadsection are subtracted there isn't much left to work.2. Should you base performance judgments on a set of rods thatperhaps should be fished with different line sizes? Bill from tpaulsen@ecity.net Sat Apr 12 20:37:55 1997 Subject: help - straightening rod blanks after gluing I just spent a frustrating 1 1/2 hours trying tot straighten my first rod.It was reasonably straight from gluing up, but I c an not make muchheadway.I go through the length of the rod an mark out all of the little kinks, andbends, and then start to heat and then apply pressure and that bend willdisappear but no matter how much i fiddle with the blank it does not seemto end up straight. any one have any suggestions or hints for a first timer. Thanks in advance, Terry Paulsen- from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Apr 12 21:07:24 1997 Subject: Straightening old rods (No bad jokes, damnit!) Hiya - I have a couple of older bamboo rods with mild sets. My question isshould I fish them as is, or attempt to staighten them. One's the 10 LLBean Salmon rod I mentioned earlier (Over-all set from years of fishing)and the other is a 7.5" South Bend 290 with a very slight set fromleaning in the corner in the tube for a few years before I bought it.If you think I should straighten, how would you proceed??Thanks in advance. Brian from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Sat Apr 12 23:09:38 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA323 0400 Subject: Re: 4, 5 &6 siders From: fiveside@net-gate.com (Bill Fink) Subject: 4, 5 &6 siders Hi Jorge, 4/11/97Can't argue with Tom's message. He makes valid points. Just wish he'dstoptrying to beat up on my five siders with one line size too heavy.Two questions remain:1. Are six footers adequate rods on which to base performancejudgments?After all, when the 9 inches under cork and the 6 inch tip deadsection are subtracted there isn't much left to work.2. Should you base performance judgments on a set of rods thatperhaps should be fished with different line sizes? Bill Good observation Bill, my intention is to use this run of rods as a "field test" and learning experience. Later, yes try different line sizes and length of rods. The reason for 6ft is my oven can only handle up to 6'4". In a short 6ft length I figured a 4 wt would be most useful for me. However, remember that Lee Wulff used a rod that was of similar length in cane for Atlantic salmon! Later, yes I would like to try different line sizes and length rods for a 4/5/6 comparison. I just wish I new more people who dappled with say steelhead rods or heavy trout in 4 or 5 sided. I also figured that nointeruption from "different" sized ferrules would be a good idea. In any event what would you think might be an appropriate set of tests for next year? JorgeCarcao@myna.com (PS. I have Bill Waara & John Long over at my place this weekend for some serious brainstorming & they say "Hello to all rodmakers".) from gord@teleport.com Sun Apr 13 00:56:27 1997 WAA09956 for ; Sat, 12 Apr 1997 22:56:14 Subject: Re: Straightening old rods (No bad jokes, damnit!) Fish them brother! Bends don't hurt the action much if any. The heatneeded to straighten may well affect the finish. I've tried steam to noavail. A hot air gun can be murderous on your finish. Relax, don't worry, cast a cane rod. Cheers,Gord from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Apr 13 06:27:44 1997 Sun, 13 Apr 1997 19:27:33 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: help - straightening rod blanks after gluing On Sat, 12 Apr 1997, Terry Paulsen wrote: I just spent a frustrating 1 1/2 hours trying tot straighten my first rod.It was reasonably straight from gluing up, but I c an not make muchheadway.I go through the length of the rod an mark out all of the little kinks, andbends, and then start to heat and then apply pressure and that bend willdisappear but no matter how much i fiddle with the blank it does notseem toend up straight. any one have any suggestions or hints for a first timer. Thanks in advance, Terry Paulsen- It can be a bit like chasing your tail. I've taken to heating the section and laying the blank on a flat surface and lifting one end rather than holding the blank in my fingers and bending as I keep putting secondary kinks in while straightening the original bend. The flat surface tends to prevent this and works for me. I just lawn cast for it's first time a 7' WC taper from his book which I built for my son. Casts like a dream. Nice taper Wayne. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from caddisty@borg.com Sun Apr 13 08:53:25 1997 maxcow.borg.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id JAA20884 for (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA00711 for ; Subject: Planing Forms I am having a set of forms made at a local machine shop and I have 1. To what tolerences and finish should the forms be machined ?Would it be better to have the basic form made, drilled, tapped and have top and bottom milled parallel then takehome and stone it before I have the taper machined in? 2. All things being equal which is better ( not easier) to use on the forms: Garrison's Differential screws, or the push pull type. I personally lean towards the Garrison style. 3. I have seen some forms that have not only the screws on 5 inch centers, but have steel pins on 10 inch centers as well. Are the a good idea, bad idea, or just geegaws to impress greenhorns like me? 4. I have in my lumber pile some Eastern Hophornbeam.Is this suitable for make the two "roughing" forms described in Mr. Cattanach's book? Thanks in advance for the help. Bruce from rcurry@jlc.net Sun Apr 13 09:39:52 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA04626 for Subject: Re: Straightening old rods (No bad jokes, damnit!) brian & michelle creek wrote: Hiya -I have a couple of older bamboo rods with mild sets. My question isshould I fish them as is, or attempt to staighten them. One's the 10 LLBean Salmon rod I mentioned earlier (Over-all set from years of fishing)and the other is a 7.5" South Bend 290 with a very slight set fromleaning in the corner in the tube for a few years before I bought it.If you think I should straighten, how would you proceed??Thanks in advance. BrianI would just fish them. Many rods, old and not-so-old, develop "castingsets" in the tips; yet this doesn't seem to affect the action. Reed from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Apr 13 18:19:37 1997 Subject: 4, 5 &6 siders Hi Jorge,4/12/97Regarding setting forms for 4 & 5 siders, try just making a test strip outof a scrap spline. Mike it out, make pencil notations of the variouscalibration points and use it to set your forms to final dimensions. Bill from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Apr 13 19:54:13 1997 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes John, Chris, et al,Gents (and ladies if any)-without nodes there are grain run- outs,withnodes there are grain run-outs. What's the difference? Also, on sawing vs.splitting you are going to get grain runouts either way -only on splittingyou may not get as much if you plane evenly from both sides leaving asolidcore with contiguous grain. It depends a little on the culm. Just my $.02.Hank. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sun Apr 13 21:43:43 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 13 Apr 1997 22:44:05 EDT Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes I don't know about all this but it seems like cutting is trying to mass produce. Is that not the way commercial manufactures used to do it? Same thing with automatic planing or power sanding to final dimensions. It sure would be faster but I don't know what the end result would be. Seems artificial. On 13 Apr 97 at 20:53, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: John, Chris, et al,Gents (and ladies if any)-without nodes there are grain run- outs,withnodes there are grain run-outs. What's the difference? Also, on sawingvs.splitting you are going to get grain runouts either way -only on splittingyou may not get as much if you plane evenly from both sides leaving asolidcore with contiguous grain. It depends a little on the culm. Just my $.02.Hank. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from neuneman@fh-ge.de Mon Apr 14 04:31:14 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA29679; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:35:40 +0200Subject: Re: Luis says Thanks Hi Wayne, I just got off the phone with Luis Marden and things are going better.The virus he has is fading away and he is out of the Hospital. He greatlyappreciated the E-mail that everyone sent - they were a lift to his spiritand he asked that I send a Thank You to all. Luis is totally convinced thatbamboo rodmakers are special folks and you have all went out of yourway toprove him right. Good to learn is better now and I hope that he will be OK ASAP. Have a nice weekend. Frank Neunemann ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/-------------------- ---------------------------------------------- from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 14 05:52:26 1997 LAA25820 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 11:52:14+0100 Subject: A rod turning/drying cabinet. My wife has finally put her foot down. She says I CANNOT build a dipsystemdown the stair-well (the only possible site in or around the house).Furtherargument is hopeless. She says it simply will not sit well with theChippendale furniture, and the long-case clock. I'll have to stick with brushing. I'd like to build a warmed cabinet tohouse varnished sections during drying, incorporating 3 slow-speedturners,some sort of support system for heavier rod sections, and perhaps a dustexcluding sealing seal. It occurs to me that I can probably use a barbecue12v DC. motor, with a transformer to run it from our 240v mains supply.Perhaps, if the motor has sufficient power, I can rig up a series ofdrive-belts and pulley-wheels to turn all three sections from the onepowersource. I thought a couple of light-bulbs to provide the heat. I can re-invent the wheel - or more sensibly, I can take advice fromsomeoneout there who's done all this before. Perhaps there's even a set ofdrawingssomewhere. I've made my own drawing (not impressive) on the back of an envelope, butIhaven't yet figured out how to send a copy as an attachment to my email. Anyone been down this route before, or have any ideas. Thanks in advance for any input you can offer. John Cooper (England) from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mon Apr 14 06:42:22 1997 Subject: Re: A rod turning/drying cabinet. Cooper" at Apr 14, 97 11:52:14 am My wife has finally put her foot down. She says I CANNOT build a dipsystemdown the stair-well (the only possible site in or around the house).Furtherargument is hopeless. She says it simply will not sit well with theChippendale furniture, and the long-case clock. John, The dip system does not have to be permanent. I clamp my tube to aworkbench and take it down when I'm through. Unless you are buildingrods overeight feet, I would think you could find some temporary space. (And if youdowan t to build rods eight feet and over, make three-piece rods.) All youneedis a screw eye in the ceiling or a simple frame made of scrap lumber. Andyoucan place the dip tube inside a larger PVC tube (8"-10" dia.), but thatdoesn't have to be eight feet long either. Make it four feet and make awoodenplatform which plugs the bottom of the PVC and holds the dip tube in thecenter. When you are done, just cap off the dip tube securely and slide thePVCdown the the dip tube until the whole thing is just four feet tall. You'llhave a collapsable system with a dust-free cabinet. You will have tofigure outsome means of attaching it to a table or some other stable structure withhoseclamps an C-clamps, but that shouldn't be too difficult. Don't give up on the dip tube. It's not that difficult and it gives a muchbetter finish than a brush, Hope that helps, Mark M. Freed, Ph.DDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 14 07:45:04 1997 NAA27727 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 13:44:46+0100 Subject: Re: A rod turning/drying cabinet. My wife has finally put her foot down. She says I CANNOT build a dipsystemdown the stair-well (the only possible site in or around the house).Furtherargument is hopeless. She says it simply will not sit well with theChippendale furniture, and the long-case clock. John, The dip system does not have to be permanent. I clamp my tube to aworkbench and take it down when I'm through. Unless you are buildingrods overeight feet, I would think you could find some temporary space. (And if youdowan t to build rods eight feet and over, make three-piece rods.) All youneedis a screw eye in the ceiling or a simple frame made of scrap lumber. And youcan place the dip tube inside a larger PVC tube (8"-10" dia.), but thatdoesn't have to be eight feet long either. Make it four feet and make awoodenplatform which plugs the bottom of the PVC and holds the dip tube in thecenter. When you are done, just cap off the dip tube securely and slide thePVCdown the the dip tube until the whole thing is just four feet tall. You'llhave a collapsable system with a dust-free cabinet. You will have tofigure outsome means of attaching it to a table or some other stable structurewithhoseclamps an C-clamps, but that shouldn't be too difficult. Don't give up on the dip tube. It's not that difficult and it gives a muchbetter finish than a brush, Hope that helps, Mark M. Freed, Ph.DDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu Thank's Mark It's length that matters (I'm afraid). Because of our peculiar fishing wayshere in England, we often use rods with sections up to 6' long. All ourceilings are woefully low. The other thing is - I'm always renovating rods,and often have five or six on the go at any one time. My wife's too canny tofall for the hollow promise to remove the offending kit when the job'scomplete: the job is on-going. No, it's going to have to be the drying cabinet. In any case, it will alsoserve as a rod-turner, of which I'm in dire need. John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Apr 14 08:19:33 1997 Subject: RE:A rod turning/drying cabinet. RO>My wife has finally put her foot down. She says I CANNOT build a dipsystemRO>down the stair-well (the only possible site in or around the house).FurtherRO>argument is hopeless. She says it simply will not sit well with theRO>Chippendale furniture, and the long-case clock. RO>Anyone been down this route before, or have any ideas. RO>Thanks in advance for any input you can offer. RO>John Cooper (England) John, I'm sure Darryl H. will give you the details on how to make a dip tankthat drains the varnish back to the varnish can - much shorter overallheight than the Garrison style dip tank. My own design was a 4' tall ABS plastic tube, plastic bottom cap (Idrilled a small pipe fitting hole), fittings, 1/4" (3/8"?) plastic hoseand a shutoff/metering valve. I also bought a rubber cap with hoseclamp for sealing the top opening. intended for the installation of an ice cube maker on a refrig. Cost wasabout $4 -$5. Had most of the parts needed for the plumbing job. I've still got to make the final wood stand to support the thing - nowresting against the work bench and supported on blocks. Or you could buy an 18th amoure and convert it into a drying closet. This should keep the "Mrs" happy until she peeks inside it for the 1sttime. Tight Lines, Don Burns PS - OBTW, How tall is that clock? Any room inside for drying rodsections? from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Apr 14 08:20:24 1997 IAA16443 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 08:20:21 Subject: Re: A rod turning/drying cabinet. I just used a homemade drying cabinet to finish a rod. It hangsthe rod sections vertically (I am assuming yours is horizontal?)and I don't use a turner, so I can't comment on that, but I did incorporate a small blower fan, blowing air into the chamber from the outside through a doubled piece of furnace filter, on the theory that clean air leaking out through the cracks and seams would keep dirty air from entering in. It also has a 250 watt floodlight bulb which raises the internal temperature about 15DegF (8DegC) (less when the fan is working). I used a gloss wiping varnish and the rod came out very acceptable.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from plipton@sunvalley.net Mon Apr 14 11:40:50 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA379 0600 Subject: Re: Bevellers Thomas Pindelski wrote: Does anyone know of any plans for bevellers for machining split canein contrast to the planening/form approach? Thomas: Contact Al Bellinger, Bellinger's Real Seats, 503-371-6151. Al and hisson are building a beveler. It does not eliminate planing in a form butit will get sections down to 50 thousandths or less with 60 degreesangles on all sections. It was shown at the Northwest Rodbuildersmeeting this last weekend. Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Apr 14 13:47:45 1997 with BSMTP id 9179; Mon, 14 Apr 97 14:46:31 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 8875; Mon, 14 Apr1997 14:46:31 -0400Subject: Re: Planing Forms Bruce, A point of clarification: some forms aredesigned with push and pull screws plus steel dowelsat each station (i.e. every 5"). The steel dowels orpins keep the two halfs of the forms aligned, while thescrews only serve to adjust the width of the chamfer.Wayne's bk depicts another method with shoulder boltsthat serve the same function as the pull screw and pinsin the above design. The function and placement of thepush screws are the same in both designs. I have no on that. (Incidentally, the Garrison design requiresdifferential screws, which would have to be custom made.) Where did you get the hornbeam? As you probably know,it is also known as "iron wood" which tells all. It isat least as hard as maple and maybe harder. My guess isthat it would work fine for "first forms" (but don'ttry it for tomato stakes--hard as it is it rots quickly,which always seemed contradictory to me). In finishingoff my forms, the 60 degree cutting tools were reallyhelpful. They've been mentioned on this list and inthe Planning Form. I probably have an ENCO part # hangingaround if you need it. Bob. from mattj@barnum.ultranet.com Mon Apr 14 15:12:14 1997 Subject: RE:Ferrule Removal Question Thanks for the suggestions on removing ferrules. Matt RO>A quick question about removing ferrules. I have a rather cheap canerodRO>that I am restoring. According to the Sinclair book, the pin holdingtheRO>ferrules should be removed using a gunsmith's punch. I have no ideawhat aRO>gunsmith punch is or where I would ever get one. What would be asuitableRO>alternative tool? Will an awl and a hammer suffice or is that toorisky?RO>And once I've got the pin out of the way, is it just a matter of heatingandRO>pulling the ferrule off, just like with the reel seat and tip top? RO>TIA,RO>Matt JorgensenRO>mattj@ultranet.com I believe you'd open the hole up with a awl, since it is tapered. Any~0.039" steel wire gripped in a metal pin-vise -- might work. The punchyou need is a Brownells starter punch in 0.039" -- P/N 080-513-039 @$6.08 and if you want spare pins - P/N 080-513-639 @ $6.45/6 pins. If the pin is above the ferrule now and you are very lucky - you mightbe able to grip or in-bed (?) the pin with a single-sided razor blade(or two) and then try to lever the pin out. Watch out for your eyes ifthe blade(s) break. Brownells # (515) 623-5401 After driving the pin in so that the ferrule will clear the pin - thenheat and remove the ferrule. Don't twist the ferrule - straight pullshould be used. Good luck, Don Burns from bokstrom@axionet.com Mon Apr 14 16:53:34 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless ----------From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: nodes vs nodelessDate: Tuesday, April 08, 1997 6:53 PM On Mon, 07 Apr 1997 17:44:27 -0700, Gary Hilbers wrote: Father forgive them, they nodes not what they do. Amen brother! Regards Chris Nobody nodes the troubles I've seen,Nobody nodes but Jesus,Nobody nodes the troubles theres been,Glory hallelujah! The rodmaker's spiritual. With apologies. John from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Apr 14 18:01:12 1997 TAA12485 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:11:16-0400 Subject: Re: A rod turning/drying cabinet. John The trick is to make the dip system look like a piece of furniture.Tom Fulk has his in his living room and it is very tastefully done. Now ifyou gut that clock and put the tubes in . . . . You may want to give thought to a portable system.I use no motorsI have a simple wooden gear and claw system that seems to work fine. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Apr 14 18:04:54 1997 TAA12528 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:14:59-0400 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless John Sheer poetry - I just node it! Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Apr 14 18:07:08 1997 TAA12557 for ; Mon, 14 Apr 1997 19:17:13-0400 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes Jon I am not sure where the grain run out from nodeless comes fromsince the sections are split. All the fibers still run north to south and the planing is the same. Soooo each man to their own ... Regards Chris from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 15 08:05:38 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA18966 +0000 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes Chris Bogart wrote: Jon I am not sure where the grain run out from nodeless comes fromsince the sections are split. All the fibers still run north to south andtheplaning is the same. Soooo each man to their own ... Regards Chris Chris, I've been following this discussion and it seems to me that the impliedgrain runout in a nodeless rod is at the end of each piece of canestrip, e.g., at the splice. There certainly is a discontinuity in thegrain at the splice - whether it makes a difference, I don't know. Best regards, Ed Estlow from bootstrap@earthlink.net Tue Apr 15 08:25:06 1997 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Hey, Bruce. I'll trade you a finished roughing form with push-pull screws exotic woods. That wood is great for that kind of thing. How big is thepiece? .A. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster 18599 E. Louisiana Ave..AAA. Colorado Boostrap, Inc. Aurora, CO 80017.A"AAA. bootstrap@earthlink.net.A' `AAA. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.AAaaaaAAA. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626.A' `AAA. "It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,aAAa aAAAAa it's tha things we know that ain't so!" -Artemus Ward from Marty.Ball@noaa.gov Tue Apr 15 10:14:15 1997 Content-Identifier: 0333C33539CA700DContent-Return: Allowed Subject: Making ferrules. I have access to a lathe and I would like to try making my own nickel silver ferrules. I have been to a web site in Australia that describes the process but it did not leave me with a clear picture of the dimensions of a set of ferrules. I am also unclear as to the differences (if any) between Swiss, Super Z and step down ferrules. The Australian description also talks of making the ferrules from solid rod because of the difficulty in getting NS tubing in Australia. Is it possible to get NS tubing in the US? If so where?I suppose that I could buy some ferrules to use as patterns but at $40 a pop I would rather not. Are the plated brass ferrules made to the same dimensions and patterns?I appreciate any and all comments on making ferrules. ThanksMarty Ball from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Apr 15 10:17:14 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.6.11/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA26167 for; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 16:17:02 +0100 Subject: Re: Bevellers Thomas Pindelski wrote: Does anyone know of any plans for bevellers for machining split canein contrast to the planening/form approach? Thomas: Contact Al Bellinger, Bellinger's Real Seats, 503-371-6151. Al and hisson are building a beveler. It does not eliminate planing in a form butit will get sections down to 50 thousandths or less with 60 degreesangles on all sections. It was shown at the Northwest Rodbuildersmeeting this last weekend. Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A guy over here in England has designed and built a brilliant new designsmall footprint beveller. The prototype is apparently good for less than athou. Weight #1 tapers should be a breeze (as I understand you say, overthere). I understand that he is negotiating with someone in California who is hotto sell them in the States. If anyone's interested I'll put a note into the rodmakers email addresswhenthe beast is finally available. Planning forms would be cheaper (only a lot) but anyone wanting to getintoserious production might be interested. On a greyer note. Last year I went to Sharpes bamboo rod-making factorytotake photographs for a magazine article I was writing. When I came to thehuge cast-iron beveller, the owner told me that he'd sledge-hammered asecond identical machine into pieces because they hadn't got room for it.Sweet Jesus!!!!! John Cooper (England) from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Apr 15 10:24:21 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 08:24:17 -0700 Subject: stuff 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC4976.691C4440" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4976.691C4440 Just returned from the northwest rod makers meeting in troutdale Oregon and found two people building nickel silver agate stripping guides. They were both hand crafted and of excellent quality. The first ones made by Mike McCoy & D.L.Whitehead tel (206)781-0133 were of slightly heavier construction than the usual but without looking massive and clunky and the second made by Kevin Calloway tel (503)590-3120 were also of excellent quality, both were priced at $25.00 each.Looked at the powere beveler made by Ballenger ReelSeats,excellently made machine that did a great job. Also there was a pattern maker there that suggested if someone was making a set of steel forms that they should use key stock, which is ground cold roll steel, in that it is ground with all four sides flat,square and parallel.Saw some great rods and some great makers and a good time was had all. There was one garrison binder and two milward binders there, one powered and one not, and as near as anybody could the Milwards worked much better that the Garrison and layed four wraps at once. The powered one was made by Martin Jensen and a bunch of us were trying to talk him into making and marketing them as his design and workmanship was truly outstanding.A great big thanks from all of us who attended, goes out to Gary Lohkamp who did a excellent job in setting it up and making sure that everything went smoothly. The location he picked was in a little town in Oregon called Troutdale and the meeting hall was maybe 100 yards from the river.Gary had a set of planing forms made by a gentleman in Oregon named Cicerionie (spelling?) that had to be the rolls Royce of planing forms. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4976.691C4440 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4976.691C4440-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 15 10:41:31 1997 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes Ed, John,Chris, etc.It seems to me that as far as grain runout goes, nodes or nodelessmakes no difference-I do know that until I get some clamps, wrapping thescarf joints with only one set of fingers is time consuming! I think I'llbend, smash ,soak, and heat a few nodes 'til the clamps arrive.One thing more-if the scarf joint does not bend as easily as acontinuous strip (and it may not) then the nodeless rod should be stifferthan the noded rod everything else being equal. Of course everything elseisnever equal.:-)Hank- what's the dif-Woolman. from sleach@plessey.co.za Tue Apr 15 11:46:31 1997 18:44:42 +0200 via smap (V3.1) 15 Apr 97 18:55:38 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: Clamping Scarf Joints (was:...that bag of nodes) On 15 Apr 97 at 11:40, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: makes no difference-I do know that until I get some clamps, wrappingthe scarf joints with only one set of fingers is time consuming! Ithink I'll bend, smash ,soak, and heat a few nodes 'til the clampsarrive. If you want to start your node collection early you can make a cheapset of clamps (hundreds of them if you want to) from a length of PVCwater pipe. Cut it into short sections a half to an inch wide andthen split each ring. These "C" shaped clamps are then clipped ontothe joint. I have found that three, or four per joint, distributedon both sides, will normally do the job. It takes a bit of practice but, if you are careful, you can glue up and entire strip in one go. Steve Leach from Canerods@aol.com Tue Apr 15 14:16:42 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Removal Question Matt, No problem. Brownells sells gun repair stuff - so if they ask for your fed.gun license just tell them that you're working on bamboo fly rods. I got acatalog out of them that way. They also sell the brass black (NS ferrule bluing) and the varnish polishesthat Sinclair talks about in his book. What kind of rod are you working on? Looking for others? Don B. PS - My punch arrived with the wrong spare pins - plastic bag had thecorrectP/N, but the pins inside were for the next larger punch. A one time oops? Ihaven't broken the 1st pin yet - so you might want to save the money? Docheck before storing them away for a few years. from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 15 17:06:52 1997 SAA24675 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 18:16:59-0400 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes Ed The node knows! Regards Chris from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Apr 15 19:12:31 1997 UAA16872 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:12:27 Subject: Nodeless splices Hi Steve, Hank, Chris and all nodeless fans, 4/15/97Another neat low budget clamp is the common blued spring steel 1 1/4inchpaper clip. Three per splice works just fine. Bill from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 15 20:00:09 1997 VAA27081 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 1997 21:10:22-0400 Subject: Re: Nodeless splices Bill Last year when I was out at Corbett Lake there was the suggestion you could use the rubber bands sold at your localFarmers co-op for nutering pigs - needless to say this lead directly downhill from there. So where there is a will there is a way and where therewas a node there is now a splice. Cheers Regards Chris from rgriff@bscn.com Tue Apr 15 20:33:55 1997 (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ;Tue, 15 Apr 1997 20:34:17 -0500 Subject: Re: What you can do with that bag of nodes Chris Bogart wrote: Jon I am not sure where the grain run out from nodeless comes fromsince the sections are split. All the fibers still run north to southand theplaning is the same. Soooo each man to their own ... Regards Chris Chris, I've been following this discussion and it seems to me that the impliedgrain runout in a nodeless rod is at the end of each piece of canestrip, e.g., at the splice. There certainly is a discontinuity in thegrain at the splice - whether it makes a difference, I don't know. Best regards, Ed EstlowGentlemen, It seems to me that when you taper a strip of cane, runout occursall the way down the strip whether or not it is nodeless.Ron Griffithaka Wind knot"Any clod can have the facts, but having an opinion is an art." Charles McCabe from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Apr 15 21:05:16 1997 Subject: Re: Nodeless splices And nodes are like pig nuts?Don't ask me to do that to a poor defenseless piece of bamboo! Thehumainty!Brian from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Apr 15 22:51:49 1997 Subject: the 6' 3" #2 & #4 node - nodeless challenge !! A while back I mentioned that I was trying a couple of two line weightrods based on one butt section - At the time I was making Bill Ballan his7"6" #3 & #5. Well personally I wanted a 6" 3" #2 & #4 - any 'o' how here arethe numbers Tip - 1 tip - .057505 - .06710 - .08215 - .09620 - .10725 - .122 Mid - 125 - .12230 - .13535 - .15840 - .17045 - .17850 - .193 Tip - 2Tip - .06505 - .07610 - .09315 - .10820 - .12025 - .136 Mid - 225 - .13630 - .15035 - .16840 - .17845 - .18250 - .193 The One & OnlyButt 50 - .19355 - .20560 - .21965 - .22970 - .23575 - .235 Understand - the #2 portion will be a fast action and the #4 assemblywillbe slower because of the single butt - ERGO - The #2 tip and mid should bemade with nodes - they are slower you know & the #4 tip and butt shouldbemake nodeless to speed it up - However in trying to make a decision aboutthebutt - Because there will be no guides on the butt it should be made'bastardized' using both node and nodeless - when the #2 is fished thenodeshould be in line with the guides and when the #4 is fished the nodelessshould be in alignment with the guides. Question ??? If a 2x2x2 staggeringisused how shall it be divided??? A node opposite a nodeless???I will never have this rod make for Grayrock - perhaps a progress report- BUT - I intend on fishing Tricos mornings at Twin Islands this fall whenwedo the Catskills - and using the same rod per sa I also intend on Harassingthe Flygirls 'Pet Trout' with whatever it takes to get the job done in theafternoons.The rod taper is madified from the 6' 3" series in my book Wayne from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Apr 16 08:33:54 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 06:33:59 -0700 Subject: help 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC4A30.2A8D9A20" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4A30.2A8D9A20 Gentleman I'm about to make a purchase of elephant silk for bamboo rods while it's still available and I'm not sure just what size to get so if anybody out there can help me it would be greatly appreciated. Does anybody have a good source for elephant silk other than Belvoirdale? Does anybody have an opinion (yah right) on Shell Epon glue? Patrick from plipton@sunvalley.net Wed Apr 16 09:36:45 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA138 0600 Subject: Re: help Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Gentleman I'm about to make a purchase of elephant silk for bamboorods whileit's still available and I'm not sure just what size to get so ifanybody out there can help me it would be greatly appreciated. Does anybody have a good source for elephant silk other than Belvoirdale? Does anybody have an opinion (yah right) on Shell Epon glue? Patrick: I tried some silk from Belvoirdale. Although I requested only the smallsize, they were out of the small size and shipped the large. Mypreference would be for the YLI silk sold by Anglers. If you are avolume buyer, meaning $75.00 or more, you can order direct from YLI atwholesale prices. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Apr 16 10:18:42 1997 Wed, 16 Apr 1997 23:18:18 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Making ferrules. On 15 Apr 1997, Marty Ball wrote: I have access to a lathe and I would like to try making my own nickel silver ferrules. I have been to a web site in Australia that describes the process but it did not leave me with a clear picture of the dimensions of a set of ferrules. I am also unclear as to the differences (if any) between Swiss, Super Z and step down ferrules. The Australian description also talks of making the ferrules fromsolid rod because of the difficulty in getting NS tubing in Australia. Is it possible to get NS tubing in the US? If so where?I suppose that I could buy some ferrules to use as patterns but at $40 a pop I would rather not. Are the plated brass ferrules made to the same dimensions and patterns?I appreciate any and all comments on making ferrules. ThanksMarty Ball Marty,I intentionaly left dimensions out as there are a few dif types around and I don't profess to know the best type. In my experience it's not getting the dimensions that's tricky but the sequence of motions in the making of them. Please let me know how you go with this and any refinements you can come up with.You aught not have too much trouble comming up with tube in the USthough and I'd recomend very much using it rather than solid rod. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from plipton@sunvalley.net Wed Apr 16 12:37:06 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA165 0600 Subject: Storing Bamboo In addition to check splitting a culm before storing it, some one at theNW Rod Builders Meeting suggested coating the ends of the culm withparafin thinned with paint thinner. The idea was to slow down the dryingprocess similar to the way wood is stored and air dried. Does any onehave some experience with this? Is it a good idea that works or is itone those things that sounds good but is irrelevant. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from sneider@ottawa.net Wed Apr 16 12:58:52 1997 dns.ottawa.net (8.8.5/1.2) with SMTP id NAA14236 for Subject: Advice, please, for rodmaking. I am new to rod making and I wish to make a bamboo fly rod. Any advicewouldbe greatly appreciated, as I am new to this and need all the help I can get.ThanksFrank HarrisFH from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Wed Apr 16 13:08:23 1997 Subject: Re: Storing Bamboo Phil I dpn't have your e-mail address, so I am imposing on all of the membersof the list to send a personal message. Were you intending to attendthe Fly Fair in Idaho Falls Saturday? If so will you look me up; I'dlike to meet you. Ralph Moon rmoon@ida.net from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Wed Apr 16 14:30:15 1997 Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. "Frank Harris" at Apr 16, 97 02:06:05 pm I am new to rod making and I wish to make a bamboo fly rod. Any advicewouldbe greatly appreciated, as I am new to this and need all the help I canget.ThanksFrank HarrisFH Frank, I think most people on the list would suggest your first move is to gethold of Wayne Cattanach's book (and video) or Everett Garrison's AMaster'sGuide to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod. The Garrison book is in reprint forabout$100. Cattanach's is based on Garrison's but updated in some importantways.I think it sells for something like $40.You probably should contact Wayne (through the list) about where to gethold of a copy. Mark M. Freed, Ph.DDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Apr 16 14:35:03 1997 Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. At 14:06 16/04/97 -0400, Frank wrote:I am new to rod making and I wish to make a bamboo fly rod. Any advicewouldbe greatly appreciated, as I am new to this and need all the help I can get.ThanksFrank HarrisFH Frank, You just go ahead and post what you need for ideas, material and so on - thequestions will get answered. There's a bunch of people on this list thathave some experience with nearly every facet of building wooden poles. DonAnd have you found the rodmakers home page? Lotsa good stuff there. from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 16 14:52:26 1997 ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. Mark M Freed wrote: I think most people on the list would suggest your first move is to gethold of Wayne Cattanach's book (and video) or Everett Garrison's AMaster'sGuide to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod. The Garrison book is in reprint forabout$100. Just check Cabellas - sells for $74.99 Cattanach's is based on Garrison's but updated in some important ways.I think it sells for something like $40. Wayne's book is $37.99 from Cabella's. The video is $47.99. If you are a novice like me, Wayne's book and vidoe are invaluable. Mike -- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly- fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from mrj@seanet.com Wed Apr 16 14:53:01 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA06583 for Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. Frank Harris wrote: I am new to rod making and I wish to make a bamboo fly rod. Any advicewouldbe greatly appreciated, as I am new to this and need all the help I canget.ThanksFrank HarrisFH Frank,What would work pretty well is if you have a specific question and thenask it. You will get a lot of answers that way. Have you looked at theGarrison/Carmichael book? The Cattanach book? These are excellentreference sources to start with. These are obtainable at your library(at least they should be even through a library transfer) or fly fishingshops that sell books. So, ask away from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Apr 16 15:14:14 1997 Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. RO>Mark M Freed wrote:RO>> I think most people on the list would suggest your first move is togeRO>> hold of Wayne Cattanach's book (and video) or Everett Garrison's AMaster'RO>> Guide to Building a Bamboo Fly Rod. The Garrison book is in reprint RO>> $100. RO>Just check Cabellas - sells for $74.99 RO>Cattanach's is based on Garrison's but updated in some important ways.RO>> I think it sells for something like $40. RO>Wayne's book is $37.99 from Cabella's. The video is $47.99. RO>If you are a novice like me, Wayne's book and vidoe are invaluable. RO>Mike Also surf to these 2 URL: pages: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html They will help with a lot of basic stuff. Don B. from pjmraz@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 16 15:31:08 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA10646 +0000 Subject: Re: the 6' 3" #2 & #4 node - nodeless challenge !! Finally, a message that supports both node and nodeless construction!Maybe this message from Wayne will be the one that finally ends all ofthatwasted bandwidth trying to convince the rest of us to go with or withoutnodes (my guess is most are already in a comfort zone as to the type ofconstruction that they like, as well as experimenting with the othermethods!) Thanks Wayne! Just my 2 bandwidths worth! PJ Mraz At 03:51 AM 4/16/97 +0000, you wrote:A while back I mentioned that I was trying a couple of two line weightrods based on one butt section - At the time I was making Bill Ballan his7"6" #3 & #5. Well personally I wanted a 6" 3" #2 & #4 - any 'o' how herearethe numbers Tip - 1 tip - .057505 - .06710 - .08215 - .09620 - .10725 - .122 Mid - 125 - .12230 - .13535 - .15840 - .17045 - .17850 - .193 Tip - 2Tip - .06505 - .07610 - .09315 - .10820 - .12025 - .136 Mid - 225 - .13630 - .15035 - .16840 - .17845 - .18250 - .193 The One & OnlyButt 50 - .19355 - .20560 - .21965 - .22970 - .23575 - .235 Understand - the #2 portion will be a fast action and the #4 assemblywillbe slower because of the single butt - ERGO - The #2 tip and mid shouldbemade with nodes - they are slower you know & the #4 tip and butt shouldbemake nodeless to speed it up - However in trying to make a decisionabout thebutt - Because there will be no guides on the butt it should be made'bastardized' using both node and nodeless - when the #2 is fished thenodeshould be in line with the guides and when the #4 is fished the nodelessshould be in alignment with the guides. Question ??? If a 2x2x2staggering isused how shall it be divided??? A node opposite a nodeless???I will never have this rod make for Grayrock - perhaps a progressreport- BUT - I intend on fishing Tricos mornings at Twin Islands this fall whenwedo the Catskills - and using the same rod per sa I also intend onHarassingthe Flygirls 'Pet Trout' with whatever it takes to get the job done in theafternoons.The rod taper is madified from the 6' 3" series in my book Wayne from pjmraz@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 16 15:36:38 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA12750 +0000 Subject: Forms Finally, that brown UPS truck stopped at my home to deliver the formsthatI ordered from Frank at Colorado Bootstrap. They are great! I priced them through a couple of local machine shops, andthe lowest bid was $400.00. Plus, all the local shops had dozens ofquestions and concerns with working to the thousandth over a 60" form. One phone call to Frank, and I got a great product for $100 less than thelocals! (No I don't work for Frank, but I do believe in passing alongpositive feedback!) Thanks Frank! PJ Mraz from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Wed Apr 16 16:24:46 1997 services.state.mo.us (8.8.3/8.8.0) with SMTP id QAA14393 for Subject: Re: Storing Bamboo Philip Lipton wrote: ">>In addition to check splitting a culm before storing it, some one at the NW Rod Builders Meeting suggested coating the ends of the culm with parafin thinned with paint thinner. The idea was to slow down the drying process similar to the way wood is stored and air dried. Does any one have some experience with this? Is it a good idea that works or is it one those things that sounds good but is irrelevant. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Apr 16 16:30:42 1997 Subject: Re: help Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Gentleman I'm about to make a purchase of elephant silk for bamboo rods whileit's still available and I'm not sure just what size to get so ifanybody out there can help me it would be greatly appreciated. Doesanybody have a good source for elephant silk other than Belvoirdale?Does anybody have an opinion (yah right) on Shell Epon glue? Patrick --------------------------------------------------------------- Attachment 2 Type: application/ms-tnefEncoding: base64 Patrick,The Shell Epon is superb and offer large variety of formulations for the rod maker. I have just heard that Gudebrod is having silk made in China in 2/0,3/0 and 4/0. It will be made in the most useful B/C colors. I'd give thiem a call. It is said to be available in several months.John from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Apr 16 18:05:59 1997 TAA08201 for ; Wed, 16 Apr 1997 19:16:26-0400 Subject: Re: the 6' 3" #2 & #4 node - nodeless challenge !! Wayne That 2 Wt looks more like a 1 Wt. I just finished buildinga 7' 2wt 2 piece and I used the heavier of the two tapers I was toyingwith. Your taper is almost a duplicate of my lighter taper and it willbe definitely a light line. The heavy can cast the "H" line level taperenameledbraided silk line that I got from Reed as part of our infamous trade - likea dream. The heavy taper is based upon a 7' 2wt (1 piece) taper that I got from JonParker -Also a nodeless rod!. It will cast just a leader and work it on out. I willbring this jewel out to Grayling. Here is the two tapers I played with: Sta Lite Heavytip .062 .0625 .068 .06810 .080 .08815 .096 .10220 .108 .11625 .124 .12830 .134 .14035 .146 .15040 .158 .16645 .170 .18050 .188 .18855 .204 .20460 .212 .21265 .230 .23070 .255 .25575 .280 .28080 .280 .280 Tip top - 4.5Ferrule - 11/64 Regards Chris from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Apr 16 19:40:16 1997 Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. Frank, There is a rodmakers get together at the end of May. It will be held on theGrand River west of Toronto. It would be a great place to come and see thebig picture. I would also suggest Waynes books and video as anintroduction. JB At 14:06 16/04/97 -0400, you wrote:I am new to rod making and I wish to make a bamboo fly rod. Any advicewouldbe greatly appreciated, as I am new to this and need all the help I can get.ThanksFrank HarrisFH James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Apr 16 21:17:19 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 19:17:24 -0700 Subject: drying 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC4A9A.D05E20E0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4A9A.D05E20E0 I was the one at the northwest meeting last weekend that brought up using paraffin and paint thinner painted on the ends of the culm to slow down the drying process and maybe eliminate drying checks. The shop that I worked at bought logs of spruce and maple and we found that if we sealed the ends with the mixture we almost completely eliminated cracks and checks during the period that we dried the wood, which was at least 5 years due to the thickness of the wood. My question was would that work in relation to bamboo, I thought of it after looking at my culms that I received from Demhust and all the check that were in them as a way they could eliminate the problem at the source. I dont know if it will work on bamboo but I'm going to test it out on the next batch of bamboo that I get. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4A9A.D05E20E0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4A9A.D05E20E0-- from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 16 22:27:44 1997 Subject: Finished and Fished Last weekend I finally got to use a rodI recently finished. It's the 7' 0" Cattanachtaper that I always rave about. This is thefifth one of this taper I've made, but allthe others were either given away forChristmas or birthday presents or soldas blanks. This one is mine, and I vownever to sell it or give it away. This taper continues to amaze me everytime I cast it. By actual measurement itwill cast to 65 - 70 feet, but still turns overa 12 ft. leader with only a foot of fly lineoutside the tip top. Roll casting is effortless.I have yet to come across a better taper. Since I already knew I had an excellenttaper I used top quality components on it.REC nickel silver reel seat with a cocobollawood insert, bronze snake guides and a topquality stripping guide. At 9:08 Saturday morning a beautifully colored10 in. rainbow decided to inaugurate the newrod. I thanked it and put it back in the stream. I only caught one other fish all day, but it was an excellent day of fishing nonetheless. Darryl Hayashida from wishbone@headwaters.com Thu Apr 17 02:55:00 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. From: James Bond Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. Frank, There is a rodmakers get together at the end of May. It will be held ontheGrand River west of Toronto. It would be a great place to come and seethebig picture. I would also suggest Waynes books and video as anintroduction. JBJames: Where about is the venue exactly? Any dates yet? I would love to know, so I can figger out if I am off or what. Please provide some more info! Ian Scott At 14:06 16/04/97 -0400, you wrote:I am new to rod making and I wish to make a bamboo fly rod. Any advicewouldbe greatly appreciated, as I am new to this and need all the help I canget.ThanksFrank HarrisFH James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net Ian H. ScottWishbone Custom Rodshttp://absolute- sway.com/wishbonehttp://absolute- sway.comwishbone@headwaters.comIAW************************************************************** "And the day came when the risk to remain closed in a budBecame greater than the risk it took to blossom."Sam Keith ************************************************************* from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 17 08:00:18 1997 Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:00:06 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Finished and Fished On Wed, 16 Apr 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Last weekend I finally got to use a rodI recently finished. It's the 7' 0" Cattanachtaper that I always rave about. This is thefifth one of this taper I've made, but allthe others were either given away forChristmas or birthday presents or soldas blanks. This one is mine, and I vownever to sell it or give it away. This taper continues to amaze me everytime I cast it. By actual measurement itwill cast to 65 - 70 feet, but still turns overa 12 ft. leader with only a foot of fly lineoutside the tip top. Roll casting is effortless.I have yet to come across a better taper. Since I already knew I had an excellenttaper I used top quality components on it.REC nickel silver reel seat with a cocobollawood insert, bronze snake guides and a topquality stripping guide. At 9:08 Saturday morning a beautifully colored10 in. rainbow decided to inaugurate the newrod. I thanked it and put it back in the stream. I only caught one other fish all day, but it was an excellent day of fishing nonetheless. Darryl Hayashida Darryl,All you say about this rod is true. I made a posting earlier this week about this same rod which I just finished for my 12 yo son. When I lawn cast it for the first time I was amazed by it's casting ability and light feel. This is a very nice taper and is to be recomended highly to anybody looking for a rod of it's type. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Thu Apr 17 08:09:09 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: Finished and Fished Darryl, Which specific taper were you referring to? Bob Matarazzo from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Apr 17 08:55:42 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 06:55:44 -0700 Subject: sealing 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC4AFC.5EED8650" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4AFC.5EED8650 We tried the elmers glue to seal the end of wood and it doesn't work very well, it dries up and cracks and allows the wood to dry out to quickly and you end up with a lot of check cracks. The paraffin maynot smell as good but it never solidifies up and expands and contracts with the wood and definitely works real good. Wood and bamboo are both a bunch of cellulose fibers, and seems to me from my experience with both mediums, act the same under the same circumstances. Does anybody have a recommendation for a fast action 8 1/2foot taper and also a taper for a 6 1/2 foot spinning rod, my nephew came over last night and asked me if I would build him a spinng rod and I thought bamboo form different culms probably wont matter that much in a spinning rod and would be a good way for me to get rid of some scrap pieces I have. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4AFC.5EED8650 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4AFC.5EED8650-- from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Apr 17 09:38:02 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Check out the taper archive! If you haven't been there recently, check out the taper archive at: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/tapers.html Jerry Foster has made some magnificent improvements to this greatresource - you now get a stress curve with the tapers, ready to print for theworkshop! Thank you Jerry. Darryl - which of the 7' Cattanach tapers were you referring to in thetaper you "...always rave about"? 2pc or 3pc? Thanks. ThomasP@nacm.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 17 09:51:22 1997 Subject: re:re: nodeless splices Tsk,tsk,As a retired farmer I could take this thread downhill pretty fast. Chris,it seems to me you could use some more fishin'-as soon as I get throughthenext 2 weeks of "keep your back cast up,etc." I'll give you a call-I haven'tbeen on Jeremy's yet.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 17 09:51:24 1997 Subject: re:clamping scarf joints Thanks Steve, I'll give it a go. Sorry for the delay-for some reason I wasunsubscribed to the list.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 17 09:51:56 1997 Subject: Leonard tournament rod To all,A young friend of mine has been given an 8', 3 3/4 oz. Leonard tounamentrod. He says that with a 5 wgt. line it casts funny.Can anyone give me anyparticulars on this rod? Any help would be appreciated.Thanks,Hank. from pjmraz@postoffice.worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 17 10:28:19 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA17054 +0000 Subject: Re: Finished and Fished Darryl, What was the taper for this 7' rod, and what weight? PJ Mraz At 03:27 AM 4/17/97 +0000, you wrote:Last weekend I finally got to use a rodI recently finished. It's the 7' 0" Cattanachtaper that I always rave about. This is thefifth one of this taper I've made, but allthe others were either given away forChristmas or birthday presents or soldas blanks. This one is mine, and I vownever to sell it or give it away. This taper continues to amaze me everytime I cast it. By actual measurement itwill cast to 65 - 70 feet, but still turns overa 12 ft. leader with only a foot of fly lineoutside the tip top. Roll casting is effortless.I have yet to come across a better taper. Since I already knew I had an excellenttaper I used top quality components on it.REC nickel silver reel seat with a cocobollawood insert, bronze snake guides and a topquality stripping guide. At 9:08 Saturday morning a beautifully colored10 in. rainbow decided to inaugurate the newrod. I thanked it and put it back in the stream. I only caught one other fish all day, but it was an excellent day of fishing nonetheless. Darryl Hayashida from sleach@plessey.co.za Thu Apr 17 10:36:16 1997 17:33:50 +0200 via smap (V3.1) 17 Apr 97 17:46:13 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: re:clamping scarf joints On 17 Apr 97 at 10:50, FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Thanks Steve, I'll give it a go. Sorry for the delay-for some reasonI was unsubscribed to the list. Hank Try Bill Finks "common blued spring steel 1 1/4 inch paper clip" easier to use. I could add a pile of plastic rings to the "bag ofnodes" but I dont want to start that discussion again ;-) Regards Steve LeachPlessey South Africa LtdP.O.Box 30451Tokai 7966South AfricaTel (021) 710 2460fax (021) 710 2692 from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Apr 17 11:18:34 1997 Subject: re:clamping scarf joints RO>Thanks Steve, I'll give it a go. Sorry for the delay-for some reason IwasRO>unsubscribed to the list.RO> Hank. I'll toss this in, if you guys don't mind, when doing a scarf joint on abroken rod section - I've found that plain waxed dental floss makes agreat binding thread. Strong, cheap and easy to remove after the gluedries. You use the mint flavor for nodeless rods. Don Burnsflyfisher@bbs.cmix.com from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Thu Apr 17 13:59:26 1997 with BSMTP id 1092; Thu, 17 Apr 97 14:58:09 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9478; Thu, 17 Apr1997 14:58:09 -0400Subject: Re: Finished and Fished Nice way to christen a new rod Darryl. Abouta 5wt?? from lfoushee@glasgow-ky.com Thu Apr 17 16:42:40 1997 (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ;Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:42:38 -0500 Subject: Re: A GrayRock Moment Hey fellow rodmakers: Would someone tell me how to unsubscribe for one week. We'll bevacationingin Palm Springs, CA and don't want to be overloaded with messages whenwereturn. S.O.S.!!! from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Thu Apr 17 18:05:32 1997 2.0/2.12um) id QAA000.63; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 16:04:48 -0400 Subject: Re: A GrayRock Moment Hi Linda: Log on to the Rodmakers Listserver (Rodmakers Page). Click on theJoin/Resign icon. Click on the Vacation Reminder icon and read the info on how to suspend your mail. Hava a great vacation. Rich Brown from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 17 18:37:56 1997 TAA21353 for ; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 19:48:37-0400 Subject: re:re: nodeless splices Hank I was up on Jeremy's last Sunday Morning - too Claude Freaner anda bunch from the Trifly list up there. I fished the upper stretch betweenthe 3rd and4th crossovers about a week and half ago and it was fantastic. We keepfishingand didn't care what time it was and walked out after dark. Looking forward to you coming out - bring your big rod and we can getsmallmouth on the river in the evening before retire to the cabin for acookout. Regards Chris from burgould@mint.net Thu Apr 17 20:27:23 1997 mint.mint.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA23377 for; Thu, 17 Apr 1997 21:27:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Finished and Fished Darryl: What are the specifics of this rod, weight et cetera? Is the taper inWayne's book? Thank you. Bill. At 11:27 PM 4/16/97 -0400, you wrote:Last weekend I finally got to use a rodI recently finished. It's the 7' 0" Cattanachtaper that I always rave about. This is thefifth one of this taper I've made, but allthe others were either given away forChristmas or birthday presents or soldas blanks. This one is mine, and I vownever to sell it or give it away. This taper continues to amaze me everytime I cast it. By actual measurement itwill cast to 65 - 70 feet, but still turns overa 12 ft. leader with only a foot of fly lineoutside the tip top. Roll casting is effortless.I have yet to come across a better taper. Since I already knew I had an excellenttaper I used top quality components on it.REC nickel silver reel seat with a cocobollawood insert, bronze snake guides and a topquality stripping guide. At 9:08 Saturday morning a beautifully colored10 in. rainbow decided to inaugurate the newrod. I thanked it and put it back in the stream. I only caught one other fish all day, but it was an excellent day of fishing nonetheless. Darryl Hayashida from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Apr 17 21:33:36 1997 Subject: Re: Finished and Fished Darryl -Congratulations! I can't wait to finish my first rod and catch a fishwith it. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Apr 17 21:37:01 1997 Subject: Re: sealing I use a product called Anchor Seal, made in Buffalo, NY to seal logend-grain before sawing and to totally coat turning blocks. % gallonscosts about 40 bucks delivered. It's a non-flamable wax based productyou can spray or paint on. (I dip turning stock) Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 17 22:57:31 1997 Subject: Cattanach 7 ft. 4wt. taper Due to the considerable interest generated bymy post here is the taper taken straight outof Wayne's book. 7'0" DT4 2 Piece13/64ths FerruleSource: Handcrafting Bamboo Fly RodsTIPtip .06805 .07010 .08215 .10220 .12325 .13730 .15235 .16640 .18445 .206BUTT40 .18445 .20650 .21455 .22060 .24465 .25870 .27275 .30080 .30085 .300 from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 17 23:20:13 1997 Subject: Cattanach 7 ft. 4wt. taper - adding to the legend The third rod I made I was lucky enough to have chosenthis taper. I figured that by the third rod I made them good enough to please my Dad, and he wanted a 7 ft. 4 wt. My Dad can't cast. I tried numerous times to help him,but I gave up. I suggested he learn to wade very carefullyto get within 30 ft. of the fish because he couldn't castfarther than that. I didn't know at that time how good the taper is, I justhappened to choose that one from Wayne's book. WhenI finished it I took it out to test cast, and at the first castI knew I had something special. Every year in July I take my family and my parents for a week in the Sierra Nevada Mtns. in Calif. I presented the rod to my Dad on the first day of the vacation, and Ifigured I would have to take a couple hours to try andget him used to a cane rod. His first cast was perfect!Tight loops, perfect timing, and 50 ft. long! Even mymother and my wife commented on how much betterhis casting looked. After 2 days of fishing he was sopleased with the rod he went to a flyfishing store andbought me am Orvis CFO reel. ago, and no problems yet. Darryl Hayashida from Canerods@aol.com Fri Apr 18 09:11:42 1997 Subject: Re: A GrayRock Moment In a message dated 97-04-17 18:59:06 EDT, you write: Subj: Re: A GrayRock MomentDate: 97-04-17 18:59:06 EDTFrom: lfoushee@glasgow-ky.com (Linda Foushee)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hey fellow rodmakers: Would someone tell me how to unsubscribe for one week. We'll bevacationingin Palm Springs, CA and don't want to be overloaded with messageswhen wereturn. S.O.S.!!! Do take the P.S. Tram to the top of the mountain when you're there, theviewis great and you pass through 4 climate zones on the way up. (Bring awarmjacket along with you - there might still be snow up there). There's some trout streams near Lake Arrowhead if you want to fish. Don B. from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Fri Apr 18 11:55:51 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 6300; Fri, 18 Apr 97 12:54:31 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9650; Fri, 18 Apr1997 12:54:31 -0400Subject: Re: Binder and oven supplies Thomas, Could you kindly post the location of theplans for Frank's heat gun oven. Thanks, Bob. from jsmm@interaccess.com Fri Apr 18 12:38:31 1997 MAA06069 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:37:11 Subject: Depth Gauge I've been looking at depth gauges by Starrett and need advice on whichmodel to buy. The 640JZ or the 644JZ? Starrett also makes a 625 model,but I have not been able to see a picture or find out the specifications. All I know is that the 60 degree point was made for the 625. If anothercompany makes a similar quality gauge that would work I am open tosuggestions. I was also wondering if the 60 degree point that Starrett makes would fitanother manufacturers depth gauge? Thanks, Matt Makowski from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 18 12:45:23 1997 ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Depth Gauge Matt and Julie wrote: I was also wondering if the 60 degree point that Starrett makes wouldfitanother manufacturers depth gauge? Yes - I got a cheap ($10) guage from Emco - works fine.-- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly- fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Fri Apr 18 13:21:59 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 6917; Fri, 18 Apr 97 14:20:42 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 6991; Fri, 18 Apr1997 14:20:42 -0400Subject: Re: Depth Gauge Matt, Would you post the prices on the gauges youmentioned? I believe the threat size of points isfairly standard, something like 4-28, e.g., theStarrett 60d pt fits my ENCO gauge. Bob. from jsbond@inforamp.net Fri Apr 18 13:40:14 1997 Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. Ian, Give me a call at home on the weekend at 416-444-4196, I am out Fridayniteso try Sat or Sun or e-mail your tel number and I will call you. JB At 03:59 AM 17/04/97 +0500, you wrote: From: James Bond Subject: Re: Advice, please, for rodmaking. Frank, There is a rodmakers get together at the end of May. It will be held ontheGrand River west of Toronto. It would be a great place to come and seethebig picture. I would also suggest Waynes books and video as anintroduction. JBJames: Where about is the venue exactly? Any dates yet? I would love to know, so I can figger out if I am off or what. Please provide some more info! Ian Scott At 14:06 16/04/97 -0400, you wrote:I am new to rod making and I wish to make a bamboo fly rod. Anyadvice wouldbe greatly appreciated, as I am new to this and need all the help I canget.ThanksFrank HarrisFH James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net Ian H. ScottWishbone Custom Rodshttp://absolute- sway.com/wishbonehttp://absolute- sway.comwishbone@headwaters.comIAW************************************************************** "And the day came when the risk to remain closed in a budBecame greater than the risk it took to blossom."Sam Keith ************************************************************* from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Apr 18 13:51:22 1997 NAA00282 for ; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:51:20 Subject: Re: Depth Gauge If you are going to plunk down $100+ on a Starrett guage, be sure to get one where the face reads in the opposite direction, so you cantake direct readings. (The standard is for more push on the stem to register as higher numbers; you want just the opposite, so when the point is pushed in all the way level with the base it reads 0.) On my cheap Enco, I had to remove the glass and glue on numbers in reverse order (90,80,70... instead of 10,20,30...) which wasn't hard to do.It saves a lot of mental math, especially if you are making your ownplaning forms and have to take measurements repeatedly. Like others said, the Starrett 60Deg point fits Enco fine. I really love all the gadgets you get to fiddle with to make yourfirst cane rod...makes the weeks go faster.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 18 Apr 1997, Matt and Julie wrote: I've been looking at depth gauges by Starrett and need advice on whichmodel to buy. The 640JZ or the 644JZ? Starrett also makes a 625model,but I have not been able to see a picture or find out the specifications. All I know is that the 60 degree point was made for the 625. If anothercompany makes a similar quality gauge that would work I am open tosuggestions. I was also wondering if the 60 degree point that Starrett makes wouldfitanother manufacturers depth gauge? Thanks, Matt Makowski from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Fri Apr 18 14:59:44 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: Depth Gauge My "el cheapo" Enco guage has two sets of numbers on the dial which runin opposite directions. One set is black and the other is red. The red setis for us. No mental math or re-labeling is required. I don't rememberthe model number but it's the one which has 1" of travel and costssomething like $10- $12. Hope this helps. Bob Matarazzo from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Apr 18 15:00:42 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:00:04 EDT Subject: Ferrules Is there a way to figure what size ferrule you will need for a rod. I mean the taper says, but I have a feeling the rod will end up a little bigger than the taper. I just am trying to figure out how to decide what to order.Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Fri Apr 18 15:05:45 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Depth gauges Matt - I bought the 60 degree Starrett point and it fit fine on my El Cheapo Japanese depth gauge. I suspect the fittings are pretty standard. gauge (much as I would love one!). EMCO does several cheap ones (I suspectmostly from China) and they s/b good for a thouandth of an inch. I bought one of their Chinese micrometers ($10 if you can believe that, compared to $70+ the beautiful Starrett) and it checks out fine with my Starrett dial caliper. ThomasP@nacm.com---------- Subject: Depth Gauge I've been looking at depth gauges by Starrett and need advice on whichmodel to buy. The 640JZ or the 644JZ? Starrett also makes a 625 model,but I have not been able to see a picture or find out the specifications.All I know is that the 60 degree point was made for the 625. If anothercompany makes a similar quality gauge that would work I am open tosuggestions. I was also wondering if the 60 degree point that Starrett makes would fitanother manufacturers depth gauge? Thanks, Matt Makowski from rfairfie@cisco.com Fri Apr 18 15:14:50 1997 NAA14252 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:14:16 - 0700 Subject: Re: Ferrules Jon, I bought a range of inexpensive plated brass ferrules. Took the onethatwas the next size larger and used it--used narrow strips of masking tapeto take up the slack. Only drawback to this for me was the need to put on acoupleof layers of thread to match the step from the blank to the edge of theferrule. As the rod was for me, I didn't mind the appearance. Good luck,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Apr 18 13:08:30 1997Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:00:30 +0000 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Jon Lintvet Subject: FerrulesMIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BITX-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 520 Is there a way to figure what size ferrule you will need for a rod. I mean the taper says, but I have a feeling the rod will end up a little bigger than the taper. I just am trying to figure out how to decide what to order.Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Apr 18 16:57:07 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:56:31 EDT Subject: Re: Ferrules Like many of you know I am building a 3pc. 6'3" 3wt. Would short ferrules be appropriate for this rod. I really have no idea to tell you the truth. In Wayne's book he talks about coating the rod once with 100% Tung oil before he applies varnish to seal it while he personalizes it and what not. What varnishes besides Tung oil are compatible with that first coat? On 18 Apr 97 at 13:14, Roger Fairfield wrote: Jon, I bought a range of inexpensive plated brass ferrules. Took the onethatwas the next size larger and used it--used narrow strips of maskingtape to take up the slack. Only drawback to this for me was the need to put on acoupleof layers of thread to match the step from the blank to the edge of theferrule. As the rod was for me, I didn't mind the appearance. Good luck,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Apr 18 13:08:30 1997Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:00:30 +0000 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Jon Lintvet Subject: FerrulesMIME-version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BITX-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.52)X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 520 Is there a way to figure what size ferrule you will need for a rod. I mean the taper says, but I have a feeling the rod will end up a little bigger than the taper. I just am trying to figure out how to decide what to order.Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Fri Apr 18 17:54:26 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id SAA16172 for ; Subject: Unsubscribe Please cancel my subscription. Am going on vacation for 3 weeks. Willrenew when I return.Lots of good stuff here!!Raising cane,Ken Smith from mrj@seanet.com Fri Apr 18 19:51:39 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA23601 for Subject: Re: Ferrules Jon Lintvet wrote: Is there a way to figure what size ferrule you will need for a rod. Imean the taper says, but I have a feeling the rod will end up alittle bigger than the taper. I just am trying to figure out how todecide what to order.Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean I would say here that if your rod ends up larger than it is suppost tothan you will need a larger ferrule. The ferrule will fit a range ofdimentions and if your finished size falls inbetween the ferrule plus orminus figures than you are alright with the recomended ferrule. If yoursize is so much larger that you have to go up one size in ferrules thanyou are probably going to end up with a "different" rod than you thinkyou are making. Following is a list of dimentions for ferrules out of Ray Goulds up andcomming book. (No it is not out yet and no I don't have a copy but Iwill bet this info will be in ti as he gave it to me.) min. dim. accross flat max. accross flat ferrule.125 .141 9/64.142 .156 10/64.157 .172 11/64.173 .187 12/64.188 .203 13/64.204 .219 14/64.220 .234 15/64.235 .250 16/64.251 .265 17/64.266 .281 18/64.282 .297 19/64 from Global2u@aol.com Fri Apr 18 20:14:13 1997 Subject: Re: Unsubscribe Please take me off the e-mail list......Thank you from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Apr 19 01:48:26 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrules In a message dated 97-04-18 16:20:34 EDT, you write: It's not difficult. Measure flat to flat - you are going to file orturn down the points of the hex. Multiply your measurement in 64ths of an inch. For example: You get a measurement flatto flat of 0.219 - Multiply 0.219 X 64. Result is 14.016. Youbuy a 14/64 ferrule. If you get a result of 14.5 get the 14/64.If you get a result of 14.75 get the 15/64. In between thosetwo measurements, up or down doesn't matter. It all dependson how much you want to file the bamboo down. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Apr 19 01:51:43 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrules In a message dated 97-04-18 21:16:53 EDT, you write: Most all varnishes will stick to 100% tung oil.But since varnishes vary in formulation, try itout first. Darryl Hayashida from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Apr 19 04:30:33 1997 KAA30428 for ; Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:30:19+0100 Subject: New Beveller Jorge, Olaf, and others. The new British beveller The first of the new machines is complete, and running to perfection. Iunderstand that it's only 6' long overall, but can be smaller for shortersection capability and could be longer to allow for long one-piece rodconstruction. The engineering concern building the machine have asked me to keep theirdetails to myself until production of the unit is properly sheduled (this isonly a small item in their overall game plan). But, I will get details outas soon as I'm given the go-ahead. Not quite the hands-on business that a hand planing form demands, andperhaps not quite the personal contact with the bamboo that forms anemotional bond: but for commercial production in search of a 'a living' avery fine tool. I'll let you know. John Cooper (England) from sneider@ottawa.net Sat Apr 19 07:02:34 1997 dns.ottawa.net (8.8.5/1.2) with SMTP id IAA09531 for Subject: Thank you all!!!---More help! Hello allI have found the original print of Garrison's book and I now would like toknow where the plans for the forms are?...I found a plan from therodmakerspage, are there anymore?Thanks in advance!!!!FrankFH from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Apr 19 09:37:41 1997 Subject: Camping at Grayrock Is anyone else going to be camping while at the Grayrock Gathering? Iam, and would like to know where others are staying. I plan to arriveearly in the week and stay through Saturday. I'm looking for a good, clean, cheap campground with hot showers and anice machine. Brian from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 19 10:21:57 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA5918 +0000 Subject: Re: New Beveller John Cooper wrote: Jorge, Olaf, and others. The new British beveller The first of the new machines is complete, and running to perfection. Iunderstand that it's only 6' long overall, but can be smaller for shortersection capability and could be longer to allow for long one-piece rodconstruction. The engineering concern building the machine have asked me to keeptheirdetails to myself until production of the unit is properly sheduled (thisisonly a small item in their overall game plan). But, I will get details outas soon as I'm given the go-ahead. SNIP John, Please forgive this ignorant question, but your letter implies that thisnew beveller will put the taper on the strip as well as the properangle. True? If so, how accurately? +/-0.001? Also, will it havecapabilities for four and five strip rods? And the big question, howabout price (at least ballpark)? I'm interested more from a researchstandpoint - I'd like to be able to build several rods a year andcompare their performance. My own personal pipe dream! Perhaps these are the details the maker has asked you to keep toyourself for the time being. If so, I certainly understand and respectthat. I for one would appreciate any details you can give me. Thank youin advance. Best regards, Ed Estlow from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sat Apr 19 12:45:22 1997 Subject: U-40 products Hi All,A while back there was a gentleman who was the owner of U-40 Products who had some comments on the surface preparation of parts to be joined with epoxy adhesives. He seemed to be quite expert and I'd very much like to contact him. Can anyone provide me with his name and a way to cintact him.ThanksJohn from wishbone@headwaters.com Sat Apr 19 13:12:43 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Re: U-40 products Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:33:43 -0400 From: John Zimny Subject: U-40 products Hi All,A while back there was a gentleman who was the owner of U- 40Products who had some comments on the surface preparation of parts to be joined with epoxy adhesives. He seemed to be quite expert and I'd very much like to contact him. Can anyone provide me with his name and a way to cintact him.ThanksJohn Hi John: I posted an article by the develloper of U40 products, and I carry the products. That was some time ago that the article was posted! Is there anything I can help you with? Regards, Ian H. ScottWishbone Custom Rodshttp://absolute- sway.com/wishbonehttp://absolute- sway.comwishbone@headwaters.comIAW************************************************************** "And the day came when the risk to remain closed in a budBecame greater than the risk it took to blossom."Sam Keith ************************************************************* from johnnatk@juno.com Sat Apr 19 21:34:45 1997 Subject: Milward Binder questions I just finished making all the parts I need to assemble a Milward binderbut I want to know some dimensions before I end up botching the job. Iwould like to know what distance between the binding heads others haveused? from the drawing of the Milward binder on the Rodmakes web pageit would appear that there is about 5 inches between the heads (if thedrawing is to scale.) I think the other dimensions can be fudged, butI'm worried about the clearance necessary for the thread spools. Anyadvice? John from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sat Apr 19 23:05:30 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:06:04 EDT Subject: Tip section Well...I am almost finished with the tip section of my rod. Wow! Those damn things get small. I new they would be tiny but my word. Oh well...had a question...I am planning to Nytex epoxy. I was wondering how much it adds to the dimensions of a rod. Also, how much do you think the sanding of the enamel will take off. I am just trying to figure how my dimensions will come out. Is this taken into account when people mic older rods? I mean glue has to as something right? Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sat Apr 19 23:10:34 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 00:11:08 EDT Subject: Along those lines... I would like to know how someone would go about getting parts for a binder. I cannot (will not) spend 350 on a binder. I rather work on my own but I have no idea how to do it. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Apr 20 00:55:13 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrules In a message dated 97-04-19 03:36:14 EDT, you write: Oops... I meant calipers not dial gauge. Darryl Hayashida from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun Apr 20 07:14:16 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id OAA13049 for; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 14:16:00 -0200 Subject: Risp: New Beveller Dear John,I am one of the people are interested in a final precision beveler machine.Please, if it's possible send me the address of beveler maker from England.I live in Northern of Italy, and for any questions or other I can putmyservice at your disposal.Sincerely,Marco Boretti. ----------Da: John Cooper A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: sabato 19 aprile 1997 11.30 Jorge, Olaf, and others. The new British beveller The first of the new machines is complete, and running to perfection. Iunderstand that it's only 6' long overall, but can be smaller for shortersection capability and could be longer to allow for long one-piece rodconstruction. The engineering concern building the machine have asked me to keeptheirdetails to myself until production of the unit is properly sheduled (thisisonly a small item in their overall game plan). But, I will get detailsoutas soon as I'm given the go-ahead. Not quite the hands-on business that a hand planing form demands, andperhaps not quite the personal contact with the bamboo that forms anemotional bond: but for commercial production in search of a 'a living' avery fine tool. I'll let you know. John Cooper (England) from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun Apr 20 10:17:37 1997 Subject: Re: Milward Binder questions ----------From: John R Natkevicius Subject: Milward Binder questionsDate: Saturday, April 19, 1997 11:31 PM I just finished making all the parts I need to assemble a Milward binderbut I want to know some dimensions before I end up botching the job. Iwould like to know what distance between the binding heads others haveused? from the drawing of the Milward binder on the Rodmakes webpageit would appear that there is about 5 inches between the heads (if thedrawing is to scale.) I think the other dimensions can be fudged, butI'm worried about the clearance necessary for the thread spools. Anyadvice? John If by "heads" you mean the two pulleys driven by the belt, then they areapprox. 5 inches apart. This is not critical and depends on yourarrangements for the spools which may be either vertical or horizontal onthe face of the pulleys. What matters is that the final thread guides,usually tip-tops, pass very close to those of the opposite side as theycontra-rotate. Bob Milward's early versions had the spools mountedvertically, the later versions horizontally. Check with Martin Jensen aboutthe motor he uses to drive his Milward binder.John from mrj@seanet.com Sun Apr 20 11:07:46 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22478 for Subject: Re: Along those lines... Jon Lintvet wrote: I would like to know how someone would go about getting parts for abinder. I cannot (will not) spend 350 on a binder. I rather work onmy own but I have no idea how to do it. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman MacleanJon,I built my binder out of commonly obtained parts most of which came froma good hardware store. Out here on the left coast Eagle Hardware cansupply most of the parts. It is a large local hardware super store. Theydid not have the pulley wheels though. I found those at a small localAce Hardware. They are not expensive. I made my drive belt out of clearplastic tubing. I could send you some photographs of mine if you like. Ibasically copied the Milward design with a couple of my own"simplifications". The bearings I took from our shop. I had removed them from a piece of machinery I was rebuilding but they were still good.( Iknow, it sounds like your worst nightmare. A mechanic replacingperfectly good parts. But that is another story. I can explain. Really!)You could buy them from a bearing supply house. They should not costmuch. My design requires that you have a lathe to turn the shafts. Onbearing selection I might add that depending on your design. Try to beflexible with the bearing dimensions. The reason is that there arethousands of bearings made. If you pick a bearing size that is not verycommon, than it may cost $25 buck or more. You may be able to find onthat is very close to the size you need that is used for a common pieceof equipment and that one will (or may) be very cheap. I have seen pricedifferences attributable to this of $200.00! from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Apr 20 13:22:44 1997 Subject: leonard tournament rod To all,A young friend of mine has been given a mint Leonard Tournament rod-8',33/4 oz. no. 6619. Does anyone know any thing about this model Leonard ? Ihave not seen it, yet. He says it casts strangely with a 5 line. Its lightwgt. leads me to believe it may handle a lighter line.Any help will be most appreciated,Hank. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sun Apr 20 15:06:33 1997 Subject: RE:leonard tournament rod RO>To all,RO> A young friend of mine has been given a mint Leonard Tournamentrod-8',RO>3/4 oz. no. 6619. Does anyone know any thing about this model Leonard? IRO>have not seen it, yet. He says it casts strangely with a 5 line. Its lightRO>wgt. leads me to believe it may handle a lighter line.RO> Any help will be most appreciated,RO> Hank. Hank, How come I can't find friends like that? The latest Heritage rod list has an 8' Leonard Tournament rod (3/2) andit's rated for a #4/5 line. Both tips were short and the rod wt. was 3.9oz - not 3/4 oz. like your friends (you might have a mistaken wt?). Saysits an exceptional caster with a 5DT. Talk to Len Cordella at Heritage Sporting Collectibles (352) 637-5454 Don Burns from jsbond@inforamp.net Sun Apr 20 16:45:03 1997 Subject: Re: leonard tournament rod The model you are referring to is a model 40. This rod was available in4,5,or 6 wt models. It features full intermediate wrap construction. Good luckAt 14:22 20/04/97 -0400, you wrote:To all,A young friend of mine has been given a mint Leonard Tournament rod-8',33/4 oz. no. 6619. Does anyone know any thing about this model Leonard ? Ihave not seen it, yet. He says it casts strangely with a 5 line. Its lightwgt. leads me to believe it may handle a lighter line.Any help will be most appreciated,Hank. James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from burgould@mint.net Sun Apr 20 19:07:15 1997 mint.mint.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA20031 for; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:07:14 -0400 The Federal Government has been generous this year (please read nopolitical commentary into this statement), and my wife and I are getting anice refund. I am thinking about buying a Peerless 1 1/2 reel for my newbamboo rod -- quite a bold purchase, I think, given that I do not know ifthe rod will even cast yet. What do people think of Peerless reels forbamboo rods? Have I just read too many Gierach books? What about theHardy reels as an alternative? BTW, my rod is an eight foot, five weight-- actually, I think that one tip is five weight, the other looks thinnerand may be a three weight -- we shall see. Any discussion would be appreciated. Thank you. Bill. from Global2u@aol.com Sun Apr 20 19:54:31 1997 Subject: Unsubscribe Unscubscibe from jfoster@gte.net Sun Apr 20 20:50:36 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id UAA07484 for; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 20:50:34 -0500 Subject: Hi Hello Been out of town for a few weeks, will start catching up with thebacklog of requests for postings...sorry about the delay.Starting with yours Leo. Chris has sent several new links and we'veacquired the taper for a young midge... anything new? Jerry from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Sun Apr 20 21:56:42 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA06498 for ; Subject: RE: Bill and Peerless reels Bill,The Peerless reel is manufactured by Bob Corsetti who also runs a usedcane business. Bought most of my canes from him. The Peerlesswas designed to compliment fine cane rods and I think the Peerless looksalot better on them than on graphites. Corsetti has also recently designeda series of raised pillar reels along the designs of the Leonard reels.Peerless was popular before it showed up on the cover of Gierach's book. As far as Hardies, the best Hardy reel is the St. George. I think the 3"model would do fine on your 8' rod. It handles a 5DT with backing. As forthe rod, what kind is it? I know that several makers (Young especially andOrvis put out a couple of models also ) designed rods with two differenttip sizes. One tip may handle a different line weight,or usually one tip wasa fast dry fly and the other for wets/nymphs. Hope this answers yourquestions. Raising cane,Ken Smith from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sun Apr 20 22:18:20 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:18:57 EDT Subject: Bill Fink If you are around, I would like to ask you some questions about epon use. Thanks Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from KDLoup@aol.com Sun Apr 20 22:32:11 1997 Subject: Re: Along those lines... John, I recently built my binder for about $40-50. I used Wayne's designafter considering the binder designs of Garrison and Robert Crompton(illustrated in McClane's Standard Fishing Encyclopedia, 1965). Wayne'sdesign has one less pulley to buy than Garrison's binder and the sizepulleysWayne uses seemed easier to come by than that required in Compton'sdesign(one large pulley requiring a bearing shaft). I bought 6"x12" sheet metal used a garage door pulley for the drive pulley and for the other three Iusedbrass pulleys approximately 1.5" in diameter both were complete withbearings. I used plastic spacers on the appropriate sized bolts (used asspindles) to align the center of the pulleys for the drive belt. I usedaluminum L shaped metal for the cradles. The cradles ended up being themostdifficult part to construct due to using hand tools. A drill was all thatwas required for the assembly of the pulleys. I purchased each partexcept sameitems. Hope this helps. Oh yeah...I'm almost finished with my convectionoven which should cost about $150. The 50" 120 volt 1500 watt elementandthe corresponding thermostat is $105 alone. I guess you can't get by toocheaply unless you go nodeless and use your home's oven. from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Apr 20 22:49:00 1997 XAA24506 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 1997 23:48:28 - Subject: Grand River Bamboo Rod Makers Gathering, May 29-30 The "grand gathering" has passed our goal of forty registrants! We haveset an upper limit of fifty, but can probably handle a couple more, so ifyou are thinking of attending, contact us soon. We've got a full two dayprogram, May 29-30, from 9:00 to 4:00 with time to fish the Grand in theevening. Program features include rod making topics ranging from experttobeginner with something for all. We will have some embroidered polocommemorative shirts available as long as they last, and a bale of bambooculms for $40.oo(Can.) each. A couple of local river guides are going togive us an overview of whats happening on the river. Time will bescheduled for book signing by local Grand River guide and author, Dr. IanMartin, and our own Ron Barch and George Maurer.Your hosts and planning team are Ted Knott, George Carcao, James Bond, Carl Connors, Ray Blades, Roy De Giusti, Gary Allen and Derek Strub. from neuneman@fh-ge.de Mon Apr 21 01:26:28 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA29647; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 08:31:15 +0200Subject: Re: Along those lines... Hi John, How about spending about 5 bucks on 2 thread tension devices. Fix them in your vise and string the cord through them. That's the "power wrapper I use for over 10 years now. A minimalist solution, but works fine for me. No need for a binder. Frank Neunemann ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/-------------------- ---------------------------------------------- from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 21 07:38:50 1997 NAA06910 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 13:38:22+0100 Subject: Re: New Beveller John Cooper wrote: Jorge, Olaf, and others. The new British beveller The first of the new machines is complete, and running to perfection. Iunderstand that it's only 6' long overall, but can be smaller for shortersection capability and could be longer to allow for long one-piece rodconstruction. The engineering concern building the machine have asked me to keeptheirdetails to myself until production of the unit is properly sheduled (thisisonly a small item in their overall game plan). But, I will get details outas soon as I'm given the go-ahead. SNIP John, Please forgive this ignorant question, but your letter implies that thisnew beveller will put the taper on the strip as well as the properangle. True? If so, how accurately? +/-0.001? Also, will it havecapabilities for four and five strip rods? And the big question, howabout price (at least ballpark)? I'm interested more from a researchstandpoint - I'd like to be able to build several rods a year andcompare their performance. My own personal pipe dream! Perhaps these are the details the maker has asked you to keep toyourself for the time being. If so, I certainly understand and respectthat. I for one would appreciate any details you can give me. Thank youin advance. Best regards, Ed Estlow Ed, Marco, and anyone else interested. Firstly, the machine produces tapered strips to less than a 1/000accuracy.Price, I'm not allowed to say, but I am aware that there is a US dealer whois talking about the purchase of lots of units, so he obviously thinks itwill sell at a price that includes his margin, and shipping costs. Can't say more now, but I promise to put further information here whenproduction starts and I'm given the go-ahead to promulgate the word. Until then, just leave it all with me. John Cooper (England) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Apr 21 07:48:58 1997 +0800 (WST) Mon, 21 Apr 1997 19:59:43 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Along those lines... On Mon, 21 Apr 1997, Frank Neunemann wrote: Hi John, How about spending about 5 bucks on 2 thread tension devices. Fix themin your vise and string the cord through them. That's the "power wrapper I use for over 10 years now. A minimalist solution, but works fine for me. No need for a binder. Frank Neunemann ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/-------------------- ---------------------------------------------- I've taken to using a fly tying bobbin held by a bent nail in a board in the same manner. It's a bit tiring on your wrists, but it works and saves messing about with binders.Your fingers get a bit sticky though. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Apr 21 09:28:55 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 07:29:04 -0700 Subject: stuff 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC4E25.B0A79360" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4E25.B0A79360 If anybody is interested I have two sets of Mr. armbrusters bad forms and having a set for tops and a set for butts. Since I purchased them from Frank I bought a complete set at the northwest gathering a week ago. The price is the same as what I paid for them, $25.00 plus shipping from Seattle WA.Does anybody have a source for a 60 degree anvil for a dial caliper and a 60 degree gage for setting a dial indicators as the point gets damaged zeroing it out on the forms. A name and phone number would be greatly appreciated.Saw and played with Martin Jensens Milward binder at the northwest rod makers gathering and it work slicker than all get out. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4E25.B0A79360 from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Mon Apr 21 09:43:11 1997 Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 09:44:07 -0500 Subject: RE: stuff 4.0.994.63 John Long16231 Appleby LaneNorthville, MI 48167.313-420-0267Maker of V- block dial calipers andsteel splicing blocks GEORGE MAURER Sweetwater Rods361 SiegfriedaleKutztown, Pennsylvania 19530 (610) 683-6759 George has the 60 degree gage for setting a dial indicators This may be an old address he has advertisement in the current PF. Olaf Borge, Systems Programmer/Basic SystemsCNO/AISSUniversity of Illinois728 West Roosevelt RoadChicago, Illinois 60607-7007Phone: (312)996-5212 INTERNET: oborge@uic.edu ----------From: Coffey, Patrick W[SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Monday, April 21, 1997 9:29 AM Subject: stuff If anybody is interested I have two sets of Mr. armbrusters badforms forsale. I bought them with the intention of fixing them and end up andhaving aset for tops and a set for butts. Since I purchased them from Frank Iboughta complete set at the northwest gathering a week ago. The price is thesameas what I paid for them, $25.00 plus shipping from Seattle WA.Does anybody have a source for a 60 degree anvil for a dial caliperand a 60degree gage for setting a dial indicators as the point gets damagedzeroingit out on the forms. A name and phone number would be greatlyappreciated.Saw and played with Martin Jensens Milward binder at the northwestrodmakers gathering and it work slicker than all get out. Patrick from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Apr 21 09:45:45 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 10:36:17 EDT Subject: Glues? Well, the other day in the hardware store I saw Titebond I or II. I can't remember. I don't want to start a war here, but I was wondering which of the two has the heat breakdown problems, or is that both of them. My sections are only 27" unfinished so I think a 15 minute set up time would be ok. Also, just so i know I am looking a the right stuff....it's kinda orange right? In reading the archives about the threads on titebond I have one question. Isn't it hard to heat a section too much if your holding it with bare hands? ( I am treading on theory because I haven't done this before) Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from GROMBACHERA@phibred.com Mon Apr 21 10:10:09 1997 via smap (3.2) Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 10:09:39 -0500 Subject: RE: stuff 4.0.994.63 Hey Pat, What is wrong with the forms? Alberta Al ----------From: Coffey, Patrick W[SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Monday, April 21, 1997 8:29 AM Subject: stuff If anybody is interested I have two sets of Mr. armbrusters badforms forsale. I bought them with the intention of fixing them and end up andhaving aset for tops and a set for butts. Since I purchased them from Frank Iboughta complete set at the northwest gathering a week ago. The price is thesameas what I paid for them, $25.00 plus shipping from Seattle WA.Does anybody have a source for a 60 degree anvil for a dial caliperand a 60degree gage for setting a dial indicators as the point gets damagedzeroingit out on the forms. A name and phone number would be greatlyappreciated.Saw and played with Martin Jensens Milward binder at the northwestrodmakers gathering and it work slicker than all get out. Patrick from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 21 10:21:45 1997 Subject: Re: Glues? In a message dated 97-04-21 10:46:27 EDT, you write: All glues will break down with enough heat. Other glues like epoxywill take more heat though. It's Titebond II you are looking for, thewater resistant type. It is possible to delaminate your splines byover heating in one spot as you try to straighten the glued upsection. Something that has been working well for me I saw inan issue of the Planing Form. Use a clothes iron and your steelplaning form to straighten rod sections. It takes out the kinks,but doesn't take out the large sweeps. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 21 10:29:36 1997 Subject: Re: Along those lines... In a message dated 97-04-21 08:51:27 EDT, you write: I've done all three methods, by hand, Garrison style, and Milwardbinder. Garrison style binders aren't bad, but by far the quickest and easiest is the Milward binder. It is well worth the time and effort to put together a Milward binder. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Apr 21 10:30:34 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 08:30:41 -0700 Subject: RE: stuff 4.0.994.63 The dowel holes were drilled off from each other and according to theinstructions that I got from Mr. Armbruster a machine shop can enlargeand redill them with a end mill. I will include the instructions I got from Frank with them. It looks like if a guy went to the next dowel(steel) size up from 1/4" that it would salve the problem. There'sadjustment holes every 2 1/2' on the but end for making swelled buttrods.With the dowel holes that are in them now,one side is slightlyhigher than the other also these are push pull adjustment forms and cost$325.00 if you buy good ones from Frank now. ----------From: Grombacher, Alan[SMTP:GROMBACHERA@phibred.com]Sent: Monday, April 21, 1997 8:09 AM Subject: RE: stuff Hey Pat, What is wrong with the forms? Alberta Al ----------From: Coffey, Patrick W[SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Monday, April 21, 1997 8:29 AM Subject: stuff If anybody is interested I have two sets of Mr. armbrusters badforms forsale. I bought them with the intention of fixing them and end up andhavingaset for tops and a set for butts. Since I purchased them from Frank Iboughta complete set at the northwest gathering a week ago. The price is thesameas what I paid for them, $25.00 plus shipping from Seattle WA.Does anybody have a source for a 60 degree anvil for a dial caliperand a60degree gage for setting a dial indicators as the point gets damagedzeroingit out on the forms. A name and phone number would be greatlyappreciated.Saw and played with Martin Jensens Milward binder at the northwestrodmakers gathering and it work slicker than all get out. Patrick from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Apr 21 11:35:33 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Milward Binder I managed to complete mine this weekend and pass on these tips, FWTW. As I turned my own pulleys from some scrap hardwood, I learned that to prevent the drive belt coming off the pulley, it's best to make the drive and return pulleys' diameter identical to the spacing between the binder head pulleys. Further, the former should be located at the same height as the latter protrude above the axle axis. This approach ensures that the belt comes off each of the four pulleys in line with the pulley, rather than at an angle. The approach with a small drive and return pulley illustrated in the archives did not work for me (the belt would come off), though deeper pulleys may have helped. I used six inch diameter pulleys all around; thus, the binder head pulleys are six inches apart and the drive and return pulleys are some 2.5 - 2.75 inches above/below the binder pulley axis, allowing for a 0.75 inch thick mounting surface. The tip-tops dispensing the binding thread are probably 1.5" apart - enough to give working clearance. The drive and return pulleys have inset ball bearing rollers used in shower doors - $2.70 each. I used copper plumber's pipe for the hollow axles on the binder heads, rotating in plain copper bearings held down with pipe straps silversoldered to the outer bearing. Lubrication, if properly aligned, appears unnecessary. Costs were $0 for the wood, maybe $45 for the myriad screws, nuts, bolts, washers, copper pipe, tip tops, etc; not to mention too many trips on the old BMW bike to the local hardware store. Moral: unless you really enjoy riding, develop a proper Bill of Materials before you start. Only a modicum of garage language was necessary during a generally pleasurable project. I stress-tested this set up at 500 rpm using an electric drill and it held up nicely for a couple of minutes, after which I got bored watching it. I propose to use upholstery thread which is very tough. Any comments,anyone? ThomasP@nacm.com from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Apr 21 12:05:19 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:55:28 EDT Subject: Milward Binder Ok...after looking at the drawings on the rodmakers page I have a couple questions. The Garrison binder: The thread was secured to one end with a series of half hitches. The Milward: How is the thread started. Hmmm....what else....am I wrong to think that a handle could be mounted for manual operation?I think that's it. The two pulley's spin in opposite directions. As a result 2 threads are wrapped in one direction and another 2 in the other direction. I just don't understand how the thread is started on the rod I think. Looks like a great concept. I think I will go to the hardware store today. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Apr 21 12:24:06 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 10:24:13 -0700 Subject: binders 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC4E3E.28BAF050" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4E3E.28BAF050 I saw two milwards and one garrison binders at the northwest rodmakers meeting in Oregon last weekend. Of the two different kinds the milward performed better than the garrison.One milward was martin jenson powered with its own motor and the other was hand cranked.Both laid down four tightly wrapped threads quite easily, the only difference was with the powered one you had both hands free to guide the rod through. It looked that if you didn't feed the rod through at the beginning,there was enough wraps on top of each other to keep them from unraveling or you could half hitch them on before you began binding. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4E3E.28BAF050 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4E3E.28BAF050-- from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Apr 21 12:42:28 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Milward binder Jon - You tie all four threads together (after adjusting the tensioners in a dry run on a piece of dowel), place the rod through the middle (above or below the knot, it won't matter) and turn the pulley. Seems to me hand power would be fine but you will need a helper. ThomasP@nacm.com from mchuff@raptor.lethbridgec.ab.ca Mon Apr 21 13:09:21 1997 owl.LethbridgeC.ab.ca with ESMTP id ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 12:08:24-0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, (5.65v4.0/1.1.10.5/27Feb97-0908AM) id AA24181; Mon, 21 Apr 199712:10:10 -0600 Subject: Trout Bum Just a little message concerning my request for a blank. Rob Roy, of Colorado, accepted my offer to trade flies for a blank, and the blank will be showing up here this week. Thanks, Rob.Awhile back, Dan Nugent posted the group, regarding the nets he makes by hand. I acquired one of Dan's nets last week, and I must say, it was astonishing. At first glance, one notices the lovely shades that Dan's finishes produce from the wood. Then, you notice the curves of his design, very nice. Dan knits the mesh by hand, so every knot in the net is hand tied. And, as a final touch, he has tastefully drawn a trout fly on my net, and written his name, and the net #, on the very bottom of the handle. Dan's nets are as functional and practical as they are pretty. Tight Lines........Mark Huff from sneider@ottawa.net Mon Apr 21 14:24:19 1997 dns.ottawa.net (8.8.5/1.2) with SMTP id PAA26737 for Subject: Tonkin Cane Hello allI am looking for some Tonkin cane. I would like to find a dealer in theOttawa or Toronto area of Canada. I would appreciate any help.Thanks Frank HarrisFH from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 21 15:03:35 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA26560 for Subject: Re: Glues? Jon Lintvet wrote: Well, the other day in the hardware store I saw Titebond I or II. Ican't remember. I don't want to start a war here, but I waswondering which of the two has the heat breakdown problems, or isthat both of them. My sections are only 27" unfinished so I think a15 minute set up time would be ok. Also, just so i know I am lookinga the right stuff....it's kinda orange right? In reading thearchives about the threads on titebond I have one question. Isn't ithard to heat a section too much if your holding it with bare hands? (I am treading on theory because I haven't done this before) Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Macleanregarding heat. If you are talking about the heat applied to the blankafter it is glued up and you are straightening it (blank), then thepurpose of not using gloves is so you don't get the blank too hot. youshould be able to straighten the blank with an amount of heat that youcan touch. This is what I do at least. When I am straightening thesplines prior to planing them down, then I use gloves as I use a lot ofheat there. from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Apr 21 15:59:27 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 5038; Mon, 21 Apr 97 16:58:09 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 8086; Mon, 21 Apr1997 16:58:10 -0400Subject: Milward binder Looks like several of us have had recent experienceworking on these binders. I've just finished my second.In the first, the 3 in. drive pulley was too close to the 5in bindingheads, so that the binding heads were constantly throwing thedrive belt. In the lastest version, I moved the drive pulleyfurther away from the binding heads and this solved the problem.(As has been suggested, another solution would be to use all pulleysof the same dia.) Incidentially, old fly line works fine for a drive belt, andit's cheaper than poly cord. The one problem I still have with this model is the design ofthe thread tensioners. I do wish I could make them more sensitivein their adjustment, and more stable. I'm using the basicdesign as posted on Bruce's wed site, with 1.25in fender washers.Has anyone found a better way to build them? (Clements hasthread tensioners in their cat., but they are a bit priceyat 15 or so each.) Thanks, Bob. from rfairfie@cisco.com Mon Apr 21 16:30:07 1997 OAA23785 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 14:29:34 - 0700 Subject: Re: Milward binder You can find tensioners in Jann's Netcraft catalog, page 49, for $4.19 each.There's a delux model for $5.19 on the same page. One of these ought to doit. thanks,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Apr 21 14:05:13 1997Date: Mon, 21 Apr 97 16:32:55 EDT Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU (Robert Milardo) Subject: Milward binderX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 953 Looks like several of us have had recent experienceworking on these binders. I've just finished my second.In the first, the 3 in. drive pulley was too close to the 5in bindingheads, so that the binding heads were constantly throwing thedrive belt. In the lastest version, I moved the drive pulleyfurther away from the binding heads and this solved the problem.(As has been suggested, another solution would be to use all pulleysof the same dia.) Incidentially, old fly line works fine for a drive belt, andit's cheaper than poly cord. The one problem I still have with this model is the design ofthe thread tensioners. I do wish I could make them more sensitivein their adjustment, and more stable. I'm using the basicdesign as posted on Bruce's wed site, with 1.25in fender washers.Has anyone found a better way to build them? (Clements hasthread tensioners in their cat., but they are a bit priceyat 15 or so each.) Thanks, Bob. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Apr 21 17:14:44 1997 SAA01877 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 18:26:11-0400 Subject: RE: Bill and Peerless reels Bill The other reel you may want to consider is the Ballan's - that is whatI use - and I know Wayne has more than a few. Regards Chris from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Apr 21 17:16:28 1997 Subject: RE:Milward binder RO>Incidentially, old fly line works fine for a drive belt, and it's cheaperthan poly cord. RO>The one problem I still have with this model is the design of the threadtensioners. I do wish I could make RO>them more sensitivein theiradjustment,and more stable. I'm using the basic design as posted on Bruce's RO>wedsite,with 1.25in fender washers.Has anyone found a better way to build them?(Clements hasRO>thread tensioners in their cat., but they are a bit pricey at 15 or soeach.)Thanks, Bob. Bob, Try making a tensioner from a shoulder bolt with two flat washers and asmall spring above these washers. Then place a 3rd washer and finish offwith a wingnut. This should work about the same as the Clemenstensioner, except their's has cupped shaped lower washers and theydon't need the upper washer due to the shape of their spring (it tapersin). Also, the shoulder bolt should be used to prevent the line from rubbingagainst the bolt threads. Don Burns from sats@gte.net Mon Apr 21 17:55:53 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id RAA17244 for; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 17:55:45 -0500 Subject: rod sets - was: Tip Breakage Wayne wrote:The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaks just below the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were older classics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up with is that the cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of the cases the rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted the cap with enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the last incident the rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case. The two late-60's/early 70's Leonard rods that I own both have a 1/4" or so diameter dowel section permanently sewn into an extra, sewn-closed pouch in the rod sack. The sack thus has four pouches: one for the butt, one for each tip, and a narrow one in between, sewn shut, for the dowel. Making the dowel just a little bit longer than the rod sections should help protect them. Even with this, the case is only about 3/4-inch longer than the rod sections. Which brings up another question . When stored in a rod bag and tube,theguides of the tip sections almost always turn out from the butt section. Oneend is pushed out by the cork handle. Is it possible that years of beingtrapped in these confined conditions cause tip sets, and not all those fishthatwere caught? (I can't rationalize the force between a fore cast and a back cast being sodifferent that it would cause a bend. Nor can I believe that catching anaverage fish an average number of times would do permanent damage to arod?? Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Apr 21 18:18:29 1997 Subject: Re: Tonkin Cane Frank, There are no dealers in our great country, Ted Knott is bringing sone caneto our get-together, send me a private e-mail about how much you needand Iwill see if I can help you out locally (Toronto). Try to come to the gettogether if you can, it should be a lot of fun. JB At 15:38 21/04/97 -0400, you wrote:Hello allI am looking for some Tonkin cane. I would like to find a dealer in theOttawa or Toronto area of Canada. I would appreciate any help.Thanks Frank HarrisFH James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from bryans@connectu.net Mon Apr 21 18:26:24 1997 ns1.connectu.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05735 for Subject: Re: Along those lines... KDLoup@aol.com wrote: John, I recently built my binder for about $40-50. I used Wayne's designafter considering the binder designs of Garrison and Robert Crompton(illustrated in McClane's Standard Fishing Encyclopedia, 1965). Wayne'sdesign has one less pulley to buy than Garrison's binder and the sizepulleysWayne uses seemed easier to come by than that required in Compton'sdesign(one large pulley requiring a bearing shaft). I bought 6"x12" sheet metal Iused a garage door pulley for the drive pulley and for the other three Iusedbrass pulleys approximately 1.5" in diameter both were complete withbearings. I used plastic spacers on the appropriate sized bolts (used asspindles) to align the center of the pulleys for the drive belt. I usedaluminum L shaped metal for the cradles. The cradles ended up being themostdifficult part to construct due to using hand tools. A drill was all thatwas required for the assembly of the pulleys. I purchased each partexcept sameitems. Hope this helps. Oh yeah...I'm almost finished with my convectionoven which should cost about $150. The 50" 120 volt 1500 watt elementandthe corresponding thermostat is $105 alone. I guess you can't get by toocheaply unless you go nodeless and use your home's oven.Hello! I'm interested to know where you found a couple of the items youmentioned. First the thread tensioning device seems to be kind of toughto track down. Second is the 50" 1500 watt element for the heater. Iwould be intrested to know where you got those. thanks in advance,Bryan from bryans@connectu.net Mon Apr 21 18:30:58 1997 ns1.connectu.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05766 for Subject: Re: stuff Coffey, Patrick W wrote: If anybody is interested I have two sets of Mr. armbrusters badforms and having a set for tops and a set for butts. Since I purchased them from Frank I bought a complete set at the northwest gathering a weekago. The price is the same as what I paid for them, $25.00 plusshipping from Seattle WA.Does anybody have a source for a 60 degree anvil for a dial caliperand a 60 degree gage for setting a dial indicators as the point getsdamaged zeroing it out on the forms. A name and phone number would begreatly appreciated.Saw and played with Martin Jensens Milward binder at thenorthwestrod makers gathering and it work slicker than all get out. Patrick --------------------------------------------------------------- Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnefEncoding: base64Patrick, I would love to have the forms!!! What is wrong with them? I'mjust starting out and trying to keep cost at aminium. Thanks, Bryanbryans@connectu.net from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Apr 21 19:20:02 1997 UAA07069 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 20:19:23 - Subject: Grand River Rod Makers Gathering CORRECTION The correct dates of the Grand River Bamboo Rodmakers Gathering areFriday,May30 and Saturday, May 31 . . . NOT May 29-30 as stated in yesterday'snotice. Sorry, Ted Knott from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Apr 21 20:00:56 1997 VAA26201 for ; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 21:00:49 Subject: Binders To the list, 4/21/97To add a thought to the binder discussion, let me suggest the two-bobbinmethod. It has served me well for thirty years and is the essence ofsimplicity. No way can you get a tighter bond. Bill from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Mon Apr 21 20:15:38 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA282 0400 Subject: Re: Tonkin Cane Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 15:38:29 -0400 From: Frank Harris Subject: Tonkin Cane Hello allI am looking for some Tonkin cane. I would like to find a dealer in theOttawa or Toronto area of Canada. I would appreciate any help.Thanks Frank HarrisFH Hi Frank, Sorry but there is no such source here in Ontario. There are several bamboo stores but not the tonkin. You have to get it from Demarest in NJ at about $700 CDN for 20 poles. I might be oredering some in the fall if you are interested in more than one (I am in Toronto). If you only need one try coming to the Grand River Rodgathering on May 30-31 near Elora (1 hour west of Toronto). You will be able to meet some very experienced rodbuilders, lots of info & supplies will be available. JorgeCarcao@myna.com from jfoster@gte.net Mon Apr 21 22:29:30 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id WAA08768 for; Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:29:26 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod testing Ian Glad to see you're back..still associated with wishbone..I'll add thelink Jerry from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Apr 21 23:39:15 1997 Subject: Re: Along those lines...oven components Brian, The heating element and thermostat just came in today. I had tocustom order the element and it only took 6 days to come in. They said itwould take about two-three weeks. Anyway, I ordered the element fromVeazeySuppliers Inc. 1(800)248-2988, a local Louisiana company I assume, whohad itmade by a manufacturer of heating elements. The cost was $44. Not beingawhiz when it comes to electrical matters, I requested the element in thewattage suggested by Don Andersen (his oven plans are on the rodmaker'spage,I think). Robert, the sales rep, matched a thermostat to the element. Thethermostat has a range of 150-550 degrees and I was told that thesettingswould be fairly accurate. The thermostat (model #RS5320- 175) went for$60.60. The oven is unproven as of yet. I'll finish sometime this week asall that is left is the mounting and wiring of the thermostat and element.If the above is what you are looking for, give Robert a call. He wasextremely helpful and I'm sure he'll remember the items I ordered. By theway, the element can be made to any desired size, wattage, or voltage. Thetensioning device can be ordered from Jann's 1(800)638-2723. If I can beofany further assistance, e-mail me at KDLoup@aol.com. Kurt from jsmm@interaccess.com Tue Apr 22 00:12:01 1997 AAA15635 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:10:38 Subject: Re: Depth Gauge ----------From: Robert Milardo Subject: Re: Depth GaugeDate: Friday, April 18, 1997 1:18 PM Matt, Would you post the prices on the gauges youmentioned? I believe the threat size of points isfairly standard, something like 4-28, e.g., theStarrett 60d pt fits my ENCO gauge. Bob. Sorry for the delay in writing back:The 644 model was $189 with a case. from jfoster@gte.net Tue Apr 22 00:46:40 1997 smtp.gte.net (SMI-8.6/) via SMTP id AAA16821 for; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 00:46:37 -0500 Subject: Re: the 6' 3" #2 & #4 node - nodeless challenge !! Chris A heavy 2wt. ? Jerry from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Apr 22 04:12:23 1997 KAA21353 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 10:12:01+0100 Subject: Milward Binder A thought: The Milward Binder - I wonder whether this would be better powered by anoldsewing machine motor. This would have plenty of torque, I would think,andwith the treadle speed control would allow the starting and finishing ofthesection to be a controlled business. I'm thinking of building a wrapping set up using the same components. Does anyone have a source of chucks (preferably self-centering) for use inarod turner. I've seen the Angler's Workshop line, but I don't think they'reself centering. I need four - sounds expensive. John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 22 07:41:37 1997 Subject: RE:Milward Binder RO>A thought: RO>The Milward Binder - I wonder whether this would be better powered RO>sewing machine motor. This would have plenty of torque, I would think,andRO>with the treadle speed control would allow the starting and finishingof theRO>section to be a controlled business. RO>I'm thinking of building a wrapping set up using the same components. RO>Does anyone have a source of chucks (preferably self-centering) foruse in aRO>rod turner. I've seen the Angler's Workshop line, but I don't thinkthey'reRO>self centering. I need four - sounds expensive. RO>John Cooper (England) John, The cheapest self-centering chuck that I know about would be the chuck from the Rodsmith rod lathe. Shaft size is 0.315". The jaws travel from0.25" to ~1.7". Jann's Netcraft has this chuck listed at $24.79 (US$). Jann's P/N280-904 - four of them plus shipping and duty charges should be justshort of unbelievable for the total cost. They also sell the foot petal from the lathe for $26.45 (P/N 280-908)and the 600 rpm wrapping motor (P/N 280-910) @ $36.75 but the motor is The motor does come with a drive pulley attached. The thread tensioning device is listed as P/N 290-600 @ $4.59 or Deluxe(numbered settings) P/N 290-601 @ $5.75 Don Burns FYI - Jann's NetcraftP.O. Box 89Maumee, OH 43537(800) NETCRAFT or (419) 868-8288FAX (419) 868-8338 from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Apr 22 08:21:11 1997 IAA22576 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 08:21:08 Subject: Rod finished--fish caught--camper happy Gentlemen, I took the day off yesterday and went out with my first built-from-scratch cane rod. Even though the trout were not too cooperative Icaught a 10" brown on a nymph and a matching rainbow on an EHC. I just wanted to thank all the helpful people on this list for theirpatience with the questions of beginners like myself. In particular,Bruce Conner for the FAQ, which got me started in 1994 when I saw it onROFF; Mike Biondo for starting this list; Henry K. for recommendingWayne's 7ft 4wt rod; Wayne for his help and book and video; andeveryone else who answered a beginner's questions. One of the real benefits of this forum is that you learn that there ismore than one way to skin the proverbial cat. The downside is that Iwas always second guessing myself as new ideas come along. So I'd liketo thank Terry Ackland (are you listening?) for the most importantadvise of all, given to another beginner a few months ago: just buildthe damn rod. Anyway the rod came out far better than I had hoped. It looks great,casts dreamy (I don't know how to describe it) and catches fish. I'llfish it a lot this summer and see if it survives! After building one rod I'm hardly in position to give advice, but Iwant to mention three technical things that really worked well for me.First is nodeless construction. Sometime I'll try a rod with the nodeswhere God put 'em. But cutting them out, while it adds a couplestraightforward steps to the whole process, eliminates several stepswhere things seem to go wrong, especially for beginners: filing,flattening, and planing the nodes. Second, I'd like to recommend theMilward binder to the binderless. Its fun to build and fun tooperate. Since this is binder week, I'll chip in some advice. Yes asewing machine motor works great. I got an old sewing machine with anexternal motor for $8 at a resale shop. The foot control and variablespeed leave your hands free to feed the rod sections through. Also,its hard to tell if you have the tension equal on all four spools. Tryrunning a fine tip section through the binder (like a graphite rodtip); you will be able to see which thread is pulling too hard becauseit will bend the fine tip. Finally, I'd recommend a grooved plane soleto beginners. It certainly helped me. So now I need a heavier rod for Hex hatch time, a rod for streamsmallmouth, and maybe a midge rod for Trico time. Thanks again to all.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Tue Apr 22 10:38:35 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 8656; Tue, 22 Apr 97 11:37:17 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 4215; Tue, 22 Apr1997 11:37:17 -0400Subject: Re: Rod finished--fish caught--camper happy Congratuations Frank and tight lines. B. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 22 11:35:34 1997 Subject: Re: RE:leonard tournament rod Don,Thanks for your help-I just got my Heritage Sporting Collectibles afterposting my request.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 22 11:35:34 1997 Subject: Re: leonard tournament rod Thanks, James.Hank. from ttalsma@macatawa.org Tue Apr 22 11:44:18 1997 freenet.macatawa.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA17140 for Subject: White Bear Rod? Has anyone heard of this rod? I've seen one at an auction and wonderedwhat it was worth. Just a question.-- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Todd Talsma +Sligh Furniture Company+Phone:616-394- 0560++Sr. Systems Analyst+1201 Industrial Avenue +Fax: 616-392- 9495++++++++++++++++++++++Holland MI 49423 ++++++++++++++++++++ from george.barnes@acornbbs.com Tue Apr 22 12:08:44 1997 NAA01252 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 13:14:45 - 0400 Subject: FOREIGN TO ME Last night, a friend showed me a cane rod he picked up for under $7.00. Two tips. In lieu of a rod case, a formed cloth covered wood "dowel" with recesses for each tip and the butt. Only marking is a small printed anyone know this manufacturer?George Barnes from Canerods@aol.com Tue Apr 22 12:55:10 1997 Subject: Re: FOREIGN TO ME In a message dated 97-04-22 13:25:54 EDT, you write: Date: 97-04-22 13:25:54 EDTFrom: george.barnes@acornbbs.comSender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Last night, a friend showed me a cane rod he picked up for under $7.00. Two tips. In lieu of a rod case, a formed cloth covered wood "dowel" with recesses for each tip and the butt. Only marking is a small printed anyone know this manufacturer?George Barnes George, I own a Windsor rod - it's a trade rod mfg'd by Montague. Your friend'ssounds like a much older rod than the one I own. The one I have is from the1930's, IMHO. Uses Montague's bottle-shaped plated-brass ferrules. The name "Windsor" is in blk. ink just above the hook keeper but below thesignature wraps. About where Montague put their own label. Try looking at some early Montague rods (Sinclair's book too) for commonfeatures with your friend's rod - maybe you'll find the same reel seatdesign, same ferrules etc. Don Burns from d-deloach1@ti.com Tue Apr 22 14:11:01 1997 ESMTP id OAA13202 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA27205 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id JNTKAWAF; Tue,22 Apr 1997 14:10:23 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: re: Binders--two bobbin method Bill--could you kindly expand on your two bobbin method? Sounds as though you're doing it freehand, binding with two threads(togetheror staggered?) at once. I can't envision this setup. Do you use guide arms or a crank or anything? Everyone, it sounds as though Bill has done well enough (thirty years!)withouta binder, could it be that we're complicating this a bit by designing andbuilding elaborate gizmos for such a (simple?) task. Just a thought--I'mlearning a lot from this thread. Don D. ------------------Original text To the list, 4/21/97To add a thought to the binder discussion, let me suggest the two-bobbinmethod. It has served me well for thirty years and is the essence ofsimplicity. No way can you get a tighter bond. Bill from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Tue Apr 22 14:49:43 1997 Subject: ferrule - penetration I have just received two 11/64 ferrules from Classic Sporting Ent. Themale ends will only penetrate about 1/8th of an inch into the female ends.Can anyone advise me on how to remedy the situation. (I'm serious). thanks, Jim. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 22 16:48:53 1997 Subject: ferrule - penetration RO> I have just received two 11/64 ferrules from Classic Sporting Ent.TheRO>male ends will only penetrate about 1/8th of an inch into the femaleends.RO>Can anyone advise me on how to remedy the situation. (I'm serious). RO> thanks, Jim. Who says one size fits all? If these are new ferrules ( from the sounds of it) then they need to handmate them to the female. If you don't have the Garrison/Carmichael book for details - you need tosand the sleeves to fit. I use crocus cloth (a very lightpolishing/sanding material). You should be able to buy some at any goodhardware store. Also, the use of some U-40 ferrule lube is helpful to prevent gettingthem too loose. Polish, clean, coat with some lube and test. Repeat until they fit. Don Burns from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 22 16:49:13 1997 Subject: Ferrule repairs Since it's quiet - here's a trick - FYI: I own a Weber rod that I purchased cheap because of bad ferrules. Theworst one was the butt's female and I decided to repair vs. replace. It suffered from a mojor ding - preventing the mid section's male fromseating. Also the welt was off and needed to be resoldered. And thenthere was the many many plier marks. I filed the plier marks to remove any burrs (gently). Then I drove aseveral wood dowels into the ferrule, each a little bit bigger in O.D.until the ding was 99.9% gone. Then I cleaned the welt and ferrule with denatured alcohol. Using someAlphametals "Instant Plumbing Solder" - a liquid low temperature silversolder - I coated the welt and the tube of the ferrule with the solderand also applied a light layer over the plier gouges. I wrapped the base of the ferrule in a wet cloth (the ferrule was thison the rod) and applied heat from my small hobby torch. I heated untilthe solder turned "silver" as per the instructions. Then cooled the endwith the wet cloth. After polished the welt and tube with some crocus cloth, I was amazed athow well the repair worked. Most of plier marks are gone (a secondattempt could fix them), the welt is tightly bonded too. If the Weber had japaned ferrules, as it's Heddon cousins, I doubt ifmost people could see the repairs. Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 22 17:56:01 1997 TAA16299 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:07:38-0400 Subject: Re: the 6' 3" #2 & #4 node - nodeless challenge !! Jerry Not really - just relative tapers. We fished the 7' 2wt yesterdayand it aint heavy. A very powerful yet smooth action that can present a fly in a shot glass filled with favorite beverage. It also handled somevery large brookies with ease and telegraphed the strike nicely. It will cast flies very nicely with wind and not wimp out. It can serve as a point of reference for other tapers. That was the point. I will bring it to Grayrock - I have used three different lines on it:the "H" weight level taper enameled braided silk (it loves that line), an2WT DT spring creek line (works fine), and a 2 Wt DT silk from Phoenix(which it enjoys also). After building it - I figure that the other taper would be a light 2Wtor maybeeven a 1 wt taper. That was the point of the response.I should have some pictures in a week or so to post to you. P.S. The rod also has a kick ass butt to it. Regards Chris from Steven.Carleton@UC.Edu Tue Apr 22 17:56:45 1997 #15949) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: ovens ATE1M0 V1ATDP 861-9600 Question regarding ovens for heat tempering from a neophyte. The thoughtofbuilding an oven, wither with resistive elements or a heat gun, is a littledaunting to me (mostly to my budget). I have a pizza place about 3 blocksfrommy home. The owner saud he would be happy to allow my to place mywrappedslines in the oven at the close of work on any day, and will allow me toadjustthe temperature prior to this to an appropriate one. The oven will easilyaccomodate a 4' length, and I could place them in a hardware cloth cage toprevent scorching. Any reason why this should not work? The ovens arethere...a wasted resource. Any comments would be gratefully appreciated.Many thanks in advanceSteve Carletonnrefa from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 22 18:04:54 1997 Subject: Re: ferrule - penetration At 15:25 22/04/97 -0400, you wrote:I have just received two 11/64 ferrules from Classic Sporting Ent. Themale ends will only penetrate about 1/8th of an inch into the femaleends.Can anyone advise me on how to remedy the situation. (I'm serious). thanks, Jim. Jim, Most manufacuturer's leave the make ferrule a tad over-sized to allow thebuilder to fit them. Some builders make 'em loose - some tight.There are many ways to size the male ferrule:- crocus cloth or other abrasive cloths- paste abrasives- buffing wheels and buffing compound- very fine files Each of the materials or methods have some draw back and advantages: 1] crocus clothes or other types of abrasive cloth materials will scratchthe male ferrule leaving high spots that will wear quickly causingprematurefailure of the ferrule joints. On the other hand, laying a crocus cloth on aflat surface and slowly drawing the male accross it while rotating theferrule give a straight and reasonable finish.2] buffing wheels and buffing compound with give a mirror finish to themaleferrule but care has to be taken to make sure the metal material isremovedevenly around the male to avoid high/low spots.3] Paste abrasives[ even touth paste] on wood pieces also give finefinishesbut like crocus cloth leave micro scratches that wear quickly causingferrule failure.4] very fine files - these files were available from Classic and work wellto get the male "close". Again finishing with a buff wheel is best. coolbetwix buffing sessions to allow both the male and female to sabilize tothesame temperature. Failure to let the male cool will result in an unsizedmale ferrule - further - you might find that when the ferrules are mountedand the rod is not fished pronto, the males may have to be resized after amonth or so. Don't know why, but the males seem to "grow" in size a verysmall bit. Also, leave about 0.025" of male slightly oversize to allow forsome wear on the male ferrule over the years. Happy penatration Don from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 22 18:06:37 1997 TAA16415 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:18:18-0400 Subject: Re: ferrule - penetration Jim This may sounds like sexual disfunction but really it is somebody not doing their job. I noticed the last batch from CSEhad the same trait - You need to get a pillar file from (you guess it)CSE to properly finish the job. I reccomend a 3/4" one number 6 (you cannot but an 8 cut anylonger). If you have a lathe that you use to fit your ferrules to the sections then the problem is easily solved. I have a simple setup - wood lathe head with 3 jaw chuck(see Waynes book). I turn the sections and fit the ferrules. Glue them and leave masking tape in place. I then remount them in thechuck and using the pillar file I do a final dressing on the male ferruleso it fits into the female. It may take a couple of trys and fits to getit right on. Then polish with 0000 steel wool. They resulted in thebest fits I have had. In a odd sort of way - Bailey had done mea favor and forced me to properly fit the ferrules and I ended upwith a superior result. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 22 18:11:34 1997 TAA16463 for ; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 19:23:16-0400 Subject: Re: ovens Steve You're right - make mine with paparoni and extra cheese. Regards Chris from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 22 18:45:40 1997 Subject: Re: ferrule - penetration RO>Jim, RO>Most manufacuturer's leave the make ferrule a tad over-sized to allowtheRO>builder to fit them. Some builders make 'em loose - some tight.RO>There are many ways to size the male ferrule:RO>- crocus cloth or other abrasive clothsRO>- paste abrasivesRO>- buffing wheels and buffing compoundRO>- very fine files RO>Each of the materials or methods have some draw back and advantages: RO>1] crocus clothes or other types of abrasive cloth materials willscratchRO>the male ferrule leaving high spots that will wear quickly causingprematureRO>failure of the ferrule joints. On the other hand, laying a crocus cloth onaRO>flat surface and slowly drawing the male accross it while rotating theRO>ferrule give a straight and reasonable finish. Don I use "Nevr-Dull" cotton wadding polish to polish up metal after usingcrocus cloth. Pep Boys and other auto stores should have it. You can geta mirror finish if you want. Don Burns from mrj@seanet.com Tue Apr 22 19:31:46 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA12835 for Subject: Re: Milward Binder John Cooper wrote: A thought: The Milward Binder - I wonder whether this would be better powered byan oldsewing machine motor. This would have plenty of torque, I would think,andwith the treadle speed control would allow the starting and finishing ofthesection to be a controlled business. I'm thinking of building a wrapping set up using the same components. Does anyone have a source of chucks (preferably self-centering) for usein arod turner. I've seen the Angler's Workshop line, but I don't think they'reself centering. I need four - sounds expensive. John Cooper (England)re the binder: I think that is a great idea. I assume that you mean thefoot powered type of sewing machine motor. The only thing about it isthat the whole set up would be rather large. It would be good becauseyou could have both hands free and power it as you need. I was going toput a sewing machine foot control on my binder but it never seemednecessary. Also the binder with a motor (or a hand crank) can be made alot smaller and more portable. from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Tue Apr 22 19:46:19 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 22 Apr 1997 18:40:21 MDT #19314) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: RE:Rod Sets-was: tip breakage I haven't had a problem with any tip breakage. All my rods are in casesthatdon't exceed the length of the sections by much. Both ends of the casesarepadded with foam. I have always placed the butt section down and the tip section/section up. Also to Frank congratulations. I'm still dreamin.jerry from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Apr 22 19:48:05 1997 Subject: Re: ferrule - penetration Well, maybe some candle light, soft music, good wine and talk ofcommittment would be a good place to start. . . . Sorry, I just couldn't pass that opportunity up!! (G) Brian from mrj@seanet.com Tue Apr 22 19:57:19 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13715 for Subject: Re: ovens Steven.Carleton@UC.Edu wrote: ATE1M0 V1ATDP 861-9600 Question regarding ovens for heat tempering from a neophyte. Thethought ofbuilding an oven, wither with resistive elements or a heat gun, is a littledaunting to me (mostly to my budget). I have a pizza place about 3blocks frommy home. The owner saud he would be happy to allow my to place mywrappedslines in the oven at the close of work on any day, and will allow me toadjustthe temperature prior to this to an appropriate one. The oven will easilyaccomodate a 4' length, and I could place them in a hardware cloth cagetoprevent scorching. Any reason why this should not work? The ovens arethere...a wasted resource. Any comments would be gratefullyappreciated.Many thanks in advanceSteve CarletonnrefaYour rods will smell like pizza you know but I suppose it will work. from mrj@seanet.com Tue Apr 22 20:09:41 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA13962 for Subject: Re: ferrule - penetration brian & michelle creek wrote: Well, maybe some candle light, soft music, good wine and talk ofcommittment would be a good place to start. . . . Sorry, I just couldn't pass that opportunity up!! (G) BrianYes and after he gets the ferrule to fit properly you KNOW he won'trespect it. from EMiller257@aol.com Tue Apr 22 21:40:59 1997 Subject: quadrate rods Would anyone have a taper design for a quad trout rod? Thanks, Ed Miller from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 22 22:08:57 1997 Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:08:10 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Rod finished--fish caught--camper happy Frank,Congratulations on the rod and fish. Fells something else when you realise the fish on the end of the line is on a rod you realy have built dosen't it?Don't be too suprised if you find your next rod dosen't have the same "dream" feel as the 7' #4 you've built. I wish I'd come across that taper before I did. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 22 22:10:11 1997 Wed, 23 Apr 1997 11:09:53 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: FOREIGN TO ME On Tue, 22 Apr 1997 george.barnes@acornbbs.com wrote: Last night, a friend showed me a cane rod he picked up for under $7.00. Two tips. In lieu of a rod case, a formed cloth covered wood "dowel" with recesses for each tip and the butt. Only marking is a small printed anyone know this manufacturer?George Barnes It's not the Dukes is it? Just joking. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Apr 23 07:52:54 1997 Subject: Re: re: Binders--two bobbin method Don- The Hendricksons are hatching hereabouts and Bill is nowhere to befound. I'm sure he will answer you, so I won't elaborate except to say Ihaveseen him use this method with great success. Nothing is used except thebobbins and a clamp to hold the rod butt.Personally, I am a gadget lover and have built a Garrison type binder and aMilward. I don't like the Garrison much as it seems a bit cranky. TheMilwardhad promise, but I powered it with an old ice cream maker motor. It hadenough torque to break your arm, but was maddeningly slow. I may makeanotherattempt after following this thread. The foot controlled sewing machinemotorsounds like a good idea. In the interim I hand bind with the thread runningoff an old Penn salt water casting reel. It does a fine, controlled job, butlike any hand method,is slow. How come you can buy a casting reel with agreat drag for less than a hundred bucks, but if you want a fly reel with agreat drag it costs you $500? - Tom from mattj@barnum.ultranet.com Wed Apr 23 09:00:43 1997 Subject: Wrap-Varnish or Varnish-Wrap I just finished stripping an old 3 piece cane rod and have fixed up theferrules and the reel seat. According to Sinclair's book there is somedebate over whether you should wrap the guides first and then varnish orvarnish first and then wrap the guides. Any suggestions? This is the firstrod I've tried to restore and my first exposure to cane rods at all. I'mnot ready to make a dipping tube or anything like that and haven't decidedon the type of varnish or the application method. What would be the bestvarnish/method for a beginner? TIA,Matt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Matthew Jorgensen New England Regional Primate Research CenterResearch Fellow Harvard Medical Schooljorgy@warren.med.harvard.edumattj@ultranet.com "I think I fish, in part, because it's an antisocial, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. It's a nice position. No one considers you to be dangerous, but very little is expected of you."- John Gierach, Even Brook Trout Get the Blues (1992). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Wed Apr 23 09:54:50 1997 Subject: Re: Wrap-Varnish or Varnish-Wrap Jorgensen" at Apr 23, 97 10:00:40 am I just finished stripping an old 3 piece cane rod and have fixed up theferrules and the reel seat. According to Sinclair's book there is somedebate over whether you should wrap the guides first and then varnish orvarnish first and then wrap the guides. Any suggestions? This is thefirstrod I've tried to restore and my first exposure to cane rods at all. I'mnot ready to make a dipping tube or anything like that and haven't decidedon the type of varnish or the application method. What would be the bestvarnish/method for a beginner? TIA,Matt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Matthew Jorgensen New England Regional Primate Research CenterResearch Fellow Harvard Medical Schooljorgy@warren.med.harvard.edumattj@ultranet.com "I think I fish, in part, because it's an antisocial, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. It's a nice position. No one considers you to be dangerous, but very little is expected of you."- John Gierach, Even Brook Trout Get the Blues (1992). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Matthew, I have done both varnishing before and after wrapping, and there is not a huge difference between the methods. You might find a little better seal on your wraps if you varnish first. I have gone to that method, and then use Elmers white glue as a color preserver. I still get a little bleeding, but I like the look. It looks fairly close to the original. Good luck and enjoy. Rebuilding an old rod and catching fish with it is a real joy. BTW, I use a spar varnish straight out of the can. I brush it on and get fair results with a little patience and practice. Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from plipton@sunvalley.net Wed Apr 23 10:15:29 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA209 0600 Subject: Re: Peerless Reels Bill: I like the Peerless reels, especially the raised pillar designs. Theyare pricey. Have you looked at the Robichaud reels? He runs a small adin most of the fly fishing magazines and sells direct. The reels are acouple of hundred dollars less. There is a difference in the finish butthe quality seems close. At the other extreme, you might look at thereels being made by Bellinger with input from Saracione. The reels arenickel silver, engraved button on the side, the highest fits andfinishes I have ever seen and the most money. Have fun making yourdecision. Phil Elizabeth Burke wrote: The Federal Government has been generous this year (please read nopolitical commentary into this statement), and my wife and I aregetting anice refund. I am thinking about buying a Peerless 1 1/2 reel formy newbamboo rod -- quite a bold purchase, I think, given that I do notknow ifthe rod will even cast yet. What do people think of Peerless reelsforbamboo rods? Have I just read too many Gierach books? What abouttheHardy reels as an alternative? BTW, my rod is an eight foot, fiveweight-- actually, I think that one tip is five weight, the other looksthinnerand may be a three weight -- we shall see. Any discussion would be appreciated. Thank you. Bill. -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Wed Apr 23 10:59:46 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:00:10 EDT Subject: Re: varnish Does anyone have an 800 for Painters Supply? And is a quart enough. Also, is this stuff compatible with 100% tung oil? On 2 Apr 97 at 19:04, WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Mark -I hope that other will reply as well - but I will strongly recommendthat you use either a poly or spar varnish. A tung oil finish even theformby's with a little varnish added is more work to layer it up enough.Painter's Supply ( Grand Rapids) can UPS - the good stuff - either (77-5)poly or (77-10) spar. A quart will cost about $15 delivered / think of itasa $15 gamble. Just try it on a 1/4" maple dowel and see what you think.Youremind me of Carlos - for over a year he complained of his finish andthen Ifinally sent him a quart - of the good stuff - After that he quitcomplaining. Or if you like I have a whole shelf of finishes that you cantryone by one. I hope that others are following this series of posts - our nature is tothink that a dipping system is just one more thing - you know a thingthattakes time and is just another hassle to set up and use. Do us a favorandtry it and report back once you have the finish on the rod - let us know ifit was worth the hassle??? Wayne Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Apr 23 11:00:24 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 08:58:51 -0700 Subject: RE: stuff 4.0.994.63 Bryan sorry for the delay in answering you but I've been busier than aone legged square dancer for the last few days. Two other guys beat youto the forms but until I have a check from them I am going to keep youremail address. If by some chance they are sold you can have a setmachined (planed) for about $150 according to a local machine shop herein Seattle. The head machinist told me they should be made by cuttingthe bevel with a metal planer at a machine shop or filing a set as inthe instructions in Wayne book.I will let you know one way or the other about the forms I have. ----------From: Bryan Stiles[SMTP:bryans@connectu.net]Sent: Monday, April 21, 1997 4:45 PM Subject: Re: stuff Coffey, Patrick W wrote: If anybody is interested I have two sets of Mr. armbrusters badforms and having a set for tops and a set for butts. Since I purchased them from Frank I bought a complete set at the northwest gathering a weekago. The price is the same as what I paid for them, $25.00 plusshipping from Seattle WA.Does anybody have a source for a 60 degree anvil for a dial caliperand a 60 degree gage for setting a dial indicators as the point getsdamaged zeroing it out on the forms. A name and phone number would begreatly appreciated.Saw and played with Martin Jensens Milward binder at thenorthwestrod makers gathering and it work slicker than all get out. Patrick --------------------------------------------------------------- Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnefEncoding: base64Patrick, I would love to have the forms!!! What is wrong with them? I'mjust starting out and trying to keep cost at aminium. Thanks, Bryanbryans@connectu.net from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Apr 23 13:07:43 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 11:07:31 -0700 Subject: rod 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC4FD6.89A81160" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4FD6.89A81160 I looked at an tried a 8 1/2' chironomid rod made by Ray Gould that was his own taper and had the butt hollowed out for the first 18" and a graphite fly rod tip inserted. The rod cast and felt like a dream and was developed for fishing chironomids in the lakes we have in the northwest as well as British Columbia. He said he had also made a bamboo rod that had the graphite rod tip all the way up to the ferrule.Seemed to be a fascinating marriage between graphite and bamboo, taking advantage of both the old and the new. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4FD6.89A81160 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC4FD6.89A81160-- from mchuff@raptor.lethbridgec.ab.ca Wed Apr 23 13:16:38 1997 owl.LethbridgeC.ab.ca with ESMTP id ; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 12:15:13-0600 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, (5.65v4.0/1.1.10.5/27Feb97-0908AM) id AA30763; Wed, 23 Apr 199712:16:39 -0600 Subject: gotte quit I forget the correct adress to send this to, but please take my name off the list. School is done, and now it's time to fish for 4 months. See you in september................Mark Huff from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Wed Apr 23 13:32:10 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 14:32:42 EDT Subject: Turning ferrules I asked this once before and got a pretty quite response....if you are turning ferrule stations by hand what are some ways to go about it? All I have heard is to be critical about the amount of material being taken off every corner. That way the ferrule sits straight. Any other tid bits? Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 23 14:47:19 1997 Subject: Re: Turning ferrules In a message dated 97-04-23 14:45:37 EDT, you write: At the risk of sounding like a Nike commercial, just do it. It's really not that hard. The biggest problem I run into isgetting them stuck when test fitting and they are getting close.Most of the time just a little more muscle removes them. If theyare really stuck, then the wood ferrule puller is needed. I thinkboth the Garrison book and Wayne's book has pictures of one. Darryl Hayashida from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Wed Apr 23 14:56:55 1997 NAA19918; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:56:47 -0600 Subject: Re: Turning ferrules I asked this once before and got a pretty quite response....if you are turning ferrule stations by hand what are some ways to go about it? All I have heard is to be critical about the amount of material being taken off every corner. That way the ferrule sits straight. Any other tid bits? Jon LintvetIthaca College Jon, I am no expert, but the way I have been turning ferule stations is to markthe blank with a black felt tip pen the full lenght to be removed. Then Ifile the corners two or three passes at a time turning the blank. The inkhelps to see that you are removing the same amount of material from eachcorner. The main thing is to go slowly and check the fit frequently tomake sure you are removing only the needed amount of bamboo. I hope thisis of some help. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from rfairfie@cisco.com Wed Apr 23 15:15:31 1997 NAA18230 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:14:58 - 0700 Subject: Re: Turning ferrules I scrape the corners of the bamboo with an exacto knife and count thenumber of strokes on each corner. Then, I check the fit. I do this untilI have the fit that I want. Low tech, but it works. Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Apr 23 13:11:25 1997Date: Wed, 23 Apr 1997 13:56:47 -0600 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU (Jim Fillpot) Subject: Re: Turning ferrulesX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 899 I asked this once before and got a pretty quite response....if you are turning ferrule stations by hand what are some ways to go about it? All I have heard is to be critical about the amount of material being taken off every corner. That way the ferrule sits straight. Any other tid bits? Jon LintvetIthaca College Jon, I am no expert, but the way I have been turning ferule stations is to markthe blank with a black felt tip pen the full lenght to be removed. Then Ifile the corners two or three passes at a time turning the blank. The inkhelps to see that you are removing the same amount of material fromeachcorner. The main thing is to go slowly and check the fit frequently tomake sure you are removing only the needed amount of bamboo. I hopethisis of some help. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Apr 23 17:06:30 1997 0400 Subject: Re: gotte quit you lucky dog. some of us still gotta work for a living.enjoy your summer!! Brian from mrj@seanet.com Wed Apr 23 18:29:34 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20151 for Subject: Re: rod Coffey, Patrick W wrote: I looked at an tried a 8 1/2' chironomid rod made by Ray Gould thatwas his own taper and had the butt hollowed out for the first 18" anda graphite fly rod tip inserted. The rod cast and felt like a dreamand was developed for fishing chironomids in the lakes we have in thenorthwest as well as British Columbia. He said he had also made abamboo rod that had the graphite rod tip all the way up to theferrule.Seemed to be a fascinating marriage between graphite andbamboo, taking advantage of both the old and the new. Patrick --------------------------------------------------------------- Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnefEncoding: base64Hey Pat,Can you give me some suggestions on how to open up your attachment? Ihave been unable to. I save it as a html file and try to decode it andit doesn't work. I save it and open it up and it opens up a page innetscape looking like it's been binhexed and I again try to save it andno go. from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Wed Apr 23 18:44:40 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRODMAKERS@WUGATE.WUSTL.EDU; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 17:44:36 MDT #19314) RODMAKERS@WUGATE.WUSTL.EDU; Wed, Subject: VArnish I'm in the process of taking a friends Orvis 7' bamboo spinning rod toa fly rod. Would spar urethane bond to the orignal Orvis finish which isin good shape? Also he would like the wraps to be transparent is sparurethane apt to discolor? Thanks in advance.jerry from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 23 19:00:44 1997 Subject: Busy Lately ???? It seems that quite a few of us have been busy lately - perhaps makingrod or something - and the list has been a little quieter lately. I know thatit is 'take a number' in our basement right now - if you think it getscluttered at your workbench just think how it would be sharing it with acouple of others looking to make deadlines as well.I have read of several that have gone fishing already - I finally madeit out with fellow list member Brian Creek this past sunday and caught atrout on a dry fly. This weekend it's Grayrock time for the normal openingweekend activities.A few FYI things -I have recently worked with another list member from Europe and willshortly have videos available in the PAL & SECAM formats for thosewantingthem. I have talked with several to plan out some details of Grayrock 97 -a) Volunteer presenters are still welcome to share - the plan is to print up an information packet that each attendingwill recieve - or if you are able to do a demo and have hand outinformationto include in a packet please send in advance.b) Bamboo - There will be bamboo available for those wanting it picksomeup - Please let us know the interest - To make selection fair a draw strawrotation selection will be used. I don't have a cost per culm yet - but willhave it shortly.c) Ferrule purchase - If anyone is interested in getting ferrules - thereare a couple of ways this can be handled - I normally order enough for mystock to recieve a 40% discount - if I know who wants what I can have itavailable at that price - or perhaps there could be an order form fordelivery after the gathering.c) Cork - this could be done the same as bamboo - I normally purchasebythe 1000 - because of the better quality I currently get the 1/4 " thickchampaigne grade which cost $0.33/each.d) Bellinger Reelseats - I am trying to twist Al's arm and get him herein person - He says that he could handle a cold homebrew - but if thatfailsan assortment of his hardware could be available - The last I ordered - theslide band set (metal only) cost $15 and some of the wildest burl maplewoodfillers were $10 each (unfinished)e) Nyatex glue - this might be a chance to get some to try or toreplenish your supply at a reduced cost. I normally glue by the gallons andthem repackage it to smaller quanities for other - a pint system (a quartofmixed glue) costs about $8 this way - or smaller portions can be packagedifdesired. If you are coming in from Canada this would be an excellent waytosmuggle some home with you - Your government and I have this thing aboutsoftware - that's why I can't join you in Mayf) Veg- O - Matic - it slices - dices - and does Julien fries and ifpurchased at Grayrock 97 you will recieve a set of Ginsu knives at noextracost. Display tables for those wanting to offer goods for sale will beavailable- products should be appropiate to the occassion (no Amway orTupperwareplease) from jfoster@gte.net Wed Apr 23 21:32:56 1997 Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? Wellll Chris... anyone who's interested. The new version of the excel based hexrod is loaded on the page.. new enhancements The ability to add comments and a form setup page and the biggie is thatyou can play with the dimensions and see the stress curve withoutre-entering all the data.. if anyone is interested I'll post a helpthing, if required.. other than that it's still Waynes modified Garrisonmath.. I've also posted a few new suppliers including a new supplier of agateguides.. still have some catching up to do.. Jerry Oh. Wayne's new 6' 3" taper is set up on the program, sort of anhonerary thing, hope you don't mind Wayne.. Jerry from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Wed Apr 23 22:53:10 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 23 Apr 1997 23:53:48 EDT Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? I just wanted to say thank you for myself. Personally, I have loaded the page for information more that I care to admit. But thank you for all of your hard work. If you are ever behind let me know. That's what I do. Take care, and thanks again. On 23 Apr 97 at 21:33, Jerry Foster wrote: Wellll Chris... anyone who's interested. The new version of the excel based hexrod is loaded on the page.. new enhancements The ability to add comments and a form setup page and the biggie is thatyou can play with the dimensions and see the stress curve withoutre-entering all the data.. if anyone is interested I'll post a helpthing, if required.. other than that it's still Waynes modified Garrisonmath.. I've also posted a few new suppliers including a new supplier of agateguides.. still have some catching up to do.. Jerry Oh. Wayne's new 6' 3" taper is set up on the program, sort of anhonerary thing, hope you don't mind Wayne.. Jerry Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from wishbone@headwaters.com Thu Apr 24 00:52:12 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Re: Rod testing Date: Mon, 21 Apr 1997 22:30:27 -0600 From: Jerry Foster Subject: Re: Rod testing Ian Glad to see you're back..still associated with wishbone..I'll add thelink Jerry Thanks Jerry. Please note the new URL in my signature. IanIan H. ScottWishbone Custom Rodshttp://absolute- sway.com/wishbonehttp://absolute-sway.com/pfpemail: wishbone@headwaters.comIAW *************************************************************** "It is better to light one wee candleThan to curse the darkness."Scotch/Irish Proverb ****************************************************************** from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 24 01:00:50 1997 Subject: Hock vs. Stock I followed the recent discussion on Hock vs.the stock Stanley blades, but since I usedHock blades from the beginning, I had nothingto contribute. But, being intrigued by thediscussion, I dug out the stock Stanleyblade, carefully sharpened it and the Hockblade. I polished the back of the Stanley blade, just like my Hock blade, then proceededto sharpen both. It seemed like I could get both blades to the same degree of sharpness, but theStanley blade took longer. I started planing on mynext project, another small (6' 2") 2 wt. The Hockblade lasted about 3 times longer than the stockblade. I can plane about 6 splines with the Hockblade before I feel the need to resharpen. The stockStanley blade lasts for 2 splines and I really need toresharpen. Keep the stock blade to plane old two Darryl Hayashida from gord@teleport.com Thu Apr 24 02:36:00 1997 AAA29695 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 00:35:54 Subject: Fish story Hello! Although this isn't directly related to building it does involve my firstrod. It turned out to be a Garrison 206 - the oven fire precluded the 209EI'd envisioned. I'd been fishing a fork of Oregon's McKenzie for many years. It's abeautiful bit of country. Some old growth remains and the stream runssmall, cold, and clear year round. Although it is a wonderful place, the trout run smallish and are fairly fewand far between. In the years we'd fished it prior to my sister's arrivalthe largest trout caught by any means was 16". Trout there generally run8-10" My little sister came out a few years ago. We headed up there to camp andfish. There is a gravel bar which used to have a deep, fast channel flowingbeneath a fallen Doug between the angler and the "far" bank. It ran about12' wide there. The trick was to wade deep and dap across the torrentintothe eddy about 3' x 4' behind the root-wad of the fallen fir. The little sister was new to fly fishing. After a brief explaination ofcasting and my flyfishing demo in which I'd deftly caught a couple of 6-8"trout she was set loose. She bravely waded deeply and began to put herbackcast into the brush on the gravel bar. I hollered at her - "Watch yourbackcast!" She turned to see what I was talking about. Her fly was on thewater in the pool - this in itself was a miracle - don't tell her I eversaid that - and as she turned, bodily - rod and all - she dragged the flyacross the pool. It was then that "Harvey" decided he couldn't resist a skating fly. Hestruck and was soundly hooked. She'd been at the helm of a fly rod for lessthan a minute in her life. Needless to say she didn't play him off the reel. After he was released we lay on our backs dumbstruck in the sun on thegravel bar. We were both laughing furiously but my laughter, I admit, wasmixed with.. "I found the hole... I studied the bugs... I tied the fly...I built the DAMN ROD... YOU CAUGHT THE DAMN FISH!" I fear I said thosephrases over and over, in random order, for a fairly long time. It will be one of the angling highlights of my life. Harvey (the trout in question) measured an honest 16 1/2". I now have animage of both my sister and Harvey on my webpage. The death-grip shehas onhim was not my suggestion. Cheers,Gord http://www.teleport.com/~gord Needless to say I did go back in search of him. I rose him three weekslater. I hooked and lost him another month after that. I hooked and landedhim the subsequent year. He had grown to 17 1/4". I'm just assuming itwasthe same fish. It is possible it was just a wonder hole. Unfortunately the floods of '96 decimated his home. Every old Doug whichonce provided shelter from osprey from mp 18 up to mp 22 was sweptdownstream against his log - courtesy of Willamette-Pacific andWeyerhauser.The jam diverted the stream around the rootwad and through that hole. Thegood news is they dropped new logs in with a helicopter this fall andwinter. It will be fun again. from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Thu Apr 24 06:22:17 1997 Subject: Re: ferrule - penetration at Apr 22, 97 03:25:53 pm I have just received two 11/64 ferrules from Classic Sporting Ent. Themale ends will only penetrate about 1/8th of an inch into the femaleends.Can anyone advise me on how to remedy the situation. (I'm serious). thanks, Jim. Jim, One of the standard practices is to cut small strips (1/2" or 1/4" wide)of1000 or 1500 grit wet/dry sandpaper. Wrap a strip around the male end,andgently turn the blank while holding the paper in place. After several turnscheck the fit with the female. It takes a while--the 1000 grit doesn't cutvery fast--but you want to sneak up on it, and this is a safe way to dothat.Be sure you rotate the blank evenly--through 360 degs--otherwise youwillend upwith an oval-shape. You can get 1000, 1500, even 2000 grit from autopsrtsstores. (I should prob. mention that it is easier to do this after theferrulesare mounted to the blank--that way you have the same leverage you willneed toget the two apart when the rod is finished.) Hope that helps some, -- Mark M. Freed, Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Thu Apr 24 11:36:33 1997 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu,24 Apr 1997 11:37:16 CST Subject: silk vs. nylon When an experienced maker sees a finished rod, can he tell nylon fromsilk wraps? If so, what are the key features? Thanks. -Grayson from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 24 11:37:27 1997 Subject: Re: Fish story A magic moment, a lifetime of memories. Don B. PS - I hope you find Harvey's new home. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Apr 24 13:38:58 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 11:38:23 -0700 Subject: Ron Barch 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC50A4.041820C0" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC50A4.041820C0 Does anybody have Ron Brach's e-mail address? I'm trying to find out how to get a hold of Bill Waara. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC50A4.041820C0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC50A4.041820C0-- from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Thu Apr 24 14:16:33 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 4810; Thu, 24 Apr 97 15:15:09 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 4185; Thu, 24 Apr1997 15:15:09 -0400Subject: Re: Fish story CMDGreat story Gord. I had a similar experience someyears ago. I gave my brother my rod to try out andtied on my own nymph design. Although we both grew upfly fishing, he has never spent much time at it or infly tying, or in rod building. Cold Creek is generallyproductive in the fall with spawning salmon and brooktrout. Why the togue was there I'll never understand,but at the head of the pool a not too slight fellow inthe person of my older brother was being subdued bya 8 lb lake trout. What my brother lacks in fishingelan he more than makes up for in sheer enthusiasm. Bob. from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Thu Apr 24 14:24:15 1997 2.0/2.12um) id MAA000.58; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 12:23:34 -0400 Subject: Re: Ron Barch Patrick: from the March 1997 Rodmaker's archives: rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Rich Brown from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 24 14:28:07 1997 Subject: Re: silk vs. nylon In a message dated 97-04-24 15:03:55 EDT, you write: I use silk strictly for it's appearance. If you can't tell by lookingat it, what difference does it make? Actually nylon is moredurable and a better thread to use, except that it doesn'tburnish out as flat as silk does. If the thread is standing upand you can see the individual strands easily it might be nylon.Or, the wrapper didn't burnish silk thread. Outlandish colorsare generally nylon, only because the manufacturers don'tsell much garish colors in silk. Darryl Hayashida from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Apr 24 14:46:33 1997 Subject: Re: Turning ferrules Jim Fillpot wrote: I asked this once before and got a pretty quite response....if youare turning ferrule stations by hand what are some ways to go aboutit? All I have heard is to be critical about the amount of materialbeing taken off every corner. That way the ferrule sits straight.Any other tid bits? Jon LintvetIthaca College Jon, I am no expert, but the way I have been turning ferule stations is to markthe blank with a black felt tip pen the full lenght to be removed. Then Ifile the corners two or three passes at a time turning the blank. The inkhelps to see that you are removing the same amount of material fromeachcorner. The main thing is to go slowly and check the fit frequently tomake sure you are removing only the needed amount of bamboo. I hopethisis of some help. Jim Fillpot, Loveland ColoradoJohnJust check that the corner measurements are all the same. That way you know that the ferrule is going to be round and concentric.John from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Apr 24 18:33:36 1997 Subject: Plating? Does anyone in the group have the ability to nickel plate brassferrules? I've got a couple classics that I'm repairing - the localplating companies want a large minimum fee ($40). Unless I go into the ferrule repair business full time, I don't think Iwant to learn how to build an at home plating setup. Thanks, Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 24 18:36:53 1997 TAA13931 for ; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:48:59-0400 Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? Jerry I down loaded the new version of hexrod. Other than the stress graphof the default rod looking a little bizzare - severe vibration syndrome? Ithink itlooks very good. I played with the update feature and it works fine. I thengotbold and tried to bring it up under Lotus 123 - got the spreadsheet stuffbut . . . none of the visual basic stuff worked - FYI. Regards Chris from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Thu Apr 24 18:38:31 1997 Subject: Re: Plating? "flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com" at Apr 24, 97 04:44:38 pm Does anyone in the group have the ability to nickel plate brassferrules? I've got a couple classics that I'm repairing - the localplating companies want a large minimum fee ($40). Unless I go into the ferrule repair business full time, I don't think Iwant to learn how to build an at home plating setup. Thanks, Don Burns Don, I would be interested in this as well. Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 24 18:52:35 1997 Subject: Concerning Stuff This is an update of last nights post - First - In some cases there would be no need to advise me of quantitiesand sizes to meet requests - but in others I will need to know say in 2 - 3weeks to assure adequate time for delivery (as noted) Ferrules - I just talked to Bailey tonioght and he said it would be bestto do a bulk order in advance. I will be ordering for my personal need sothere will be no problem reaching the $500 list price value to recieve a40%discount. I was looking to find my last invoice so I could post prices - butit's in a pile somewhere. from memory a #14 S2 lists for a little over$40so it would cost about $25 - please advise of needs Bamboo - I ordered 4 bundles which can be broken up as needed - Thereisno 2 - 2 1/2 size to be had - the size will be 1 3/4 - 2. The bamboo will be from the shipment arriving in the next couple of weeks and there isn't aprice available yet. I would suspect or guess $15/culm max. Rememberther isdiscounting for this number of bundles. Bellinger Reelseats - Al's off fishing and will be back next week - Inormally order just the NS slideband hardware and unfinished fillers - Iwillbe ordering 30 sets but if someone wants something special please let meknow. Cork - I have a couple thousand rings - they are the 1/4" champaignegradewith a 1/4" bore hole - $0.33 each Glue - I will have a new Gallon kit ( 1 gal resin - 1 gal hardener) tobreak up as needed I don't need any money in advance - and if you need to back out for somereason that won't be upsetting Wayne from rbrown@infocom.net Thu Apr 24 19:10:06 1997 login1.infocom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA16493 for; Thu, 24 Apr 1997 19:15:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? Jerry I'm also interested in the updated software. Please give me a littlemore info on how to find it!! ThanksRob Brown from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Thu Apr 24 19:17:24 1997 mail-oak-2.pilot.net with ESMTP id RAA02901 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA206187963; Thu, 24 Apr 199717:26:03 - 0700 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00038E7C; Thu, 24 Apr 9717:23:26 -0700 Subject: Re[2]: Plating? Don, battery charger and some chemicals. See Jed Davis's book "Spinner fishing ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Plating?Author: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet Does anyone in the group have the ability to nickel plate brassferrules? I've got a couple classics that I'm repairing - the local plating companies want a large minimum fee ($40). Unless I go into the ferrule repair business full time, I don't think I want to learn how to build an at home plating setup. Thanks, Don Burns Don, I would be interested in this as well. Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from ghilbers@earthlink.net Thu Apr 24 19:34:15 1997 Subject: Re: silk vs. nylon I am not an experienced rod maker, but I can tell the difference. If youjust want to hold the guides in place, (which is the primary reason forwrapping,) then nylon is fine. But silk is prettier. Gary from jfoster@gte.net Thu Apr 24 20:24:54 1997 Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? Robbie It's on the rodmakers archive page under the software icon,hexrod5.2.xls http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Jon, I didn't mean to sound like i was complaining, i was making excuses Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Thu Apr 24 20:33:32 1997 Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? Chris I've noticed that several quality rods have that vibrationcharacteristic. I'm not a whiz,nor a math whiz either, but it looks likea harmonic reflection from the ferrule location.. someone, maybe Wayne, would like to comment..Where's Terance when you need him? Thanks for the testing.. enjoy Jerry from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 24 21:56:15 1997 Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? Jerry -I was just thinking of you today - I was testing out our new T1 at workand was surfing your excellent web page. I have been playing with the ideamyself - I even bought a copy of "HotDog Pro 2" but it's another time issue.You really have done a great job.Earlier I wrote some thoughts on the different stress curve things - itdidn't read well and I suspect I lost everyone. Over the past few weeks I'vebeen tossing around some different thoughts as I occupy that space infrontof the workbench in the basement and am looking to make a better attemptatit. I know John Bockstrom is working on a presentation for the Grand RiverGathering dealing with computers in some fashion. The thread on design has gone quiet for a while - I am quite sure that ithas something to do with several of us trying to get some rods made -perhapsa 'cash flow issue'- I know that John Z and I talked about what it is like tohave a real job and make more than a dozen rods a year. I am convincedthathuman nature is to wade in up to our eyebrows on an occassion.This weekend will be an excellent time to test some of the thoughts -Opening weekend and all - Larry Blan is coming up to the clubhouse - heand Iusually have some deep thought discussions. I'll report back Wayne Hey Chris -I was even checking out this picture of a little red barn - Kool from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 25 07:17:46 1997 Subject: Re: Plating? Don - Try some jewelry shops, the kind that actually make and repairjewelry.Sometimes they have plating setups. -- Tom from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Apr 25 07:19:02 1997 Fri, 25 Apr 1997 20:18:50 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: silk vs. nylon On Thu, 24 Apr 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-04-24 15:03:55 EDT, you write: silk wraps? If so, what are the key features? Thanks. -Grayson I use silk strictly for it's appearance. If you can't tell by lookingat it, what difference does it make? Actually nylon is moredurable and a better thread to use, except that it doesn'tburnish out as flat as silk does. If the thread is standing upand you can see the individual strands easily it might be nylon.Or, the wrapper didn't burnish silk thread. Outlandish colorsare generally nylon, only because the manufacturers don'tsell much garish colors in silk. Darryl Hayashida I've been told nylon will leave indentations in the cane as it will stretch when being wraped and contract over time. Not a problem until the rod's refinished? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Fri Apr 25 07:56:20 1997 Subject: guides Wayne's Guide program offers the opportunity to adjust the "increment". Iwould be grateful for some input regading that adjustment. I normally use.5,but when might one increase or decrease it? What is to be gained byincreasingor decreasing it? Thanks, -- Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from tlz112@psu.edu Fri Apr 25 08:05:54 1997 r02n02.cac.psu.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA31098 for; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 09:05:50 -0400 Subject: Finishing I just finished putting on the first coat of varnish on two rods. Thevarnish is a poly-spar made by the gateway co. in Pittsburgh, PA. It seemsto have just sunk into the cane. I also feels somewhat rough. I dipped itand every other time I dipped a rod it was with Pratt & Lambert 61itdidnotdo this. The varnish does seem sort of thin. Any suggestions? Thanks Tim Zietak from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Fri Apr 25 12:47:56 1997 services.state.mo.us (8.8.3/8.8.0) with SMTP id MAA09419 for Subject: FFF Conclave The talk about Grayrock prompts the following: I cannot make Grayrock but I will be at the FFF Conclave in Grand Rapids, MI, in early August. Are there any cane rod builder activities scheduled for that conclave? Any chance of any bamboo being available for pickup then? Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Apr 25 13:59:17 1997 Subject: Re: FFF Conclave Terry -I and the kids will have a booth at the FFF conclave and I will be teachinga 2 day workshop. If you want some bamboo or other whatever just e-mail.Grand Rapids is a suburb of Casnovia. Wayne from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Apr 25 14:09:10 1997 freenet.macatawa.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA17138 for Subject: Re: FFF Conclave WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Terry -I and the kids will have a booth at the FFF conclave and I will beteachinga 2 day workshop. If you want some bamboo or other whatever just e-mail.Grand Rapids is a suburb of Casnovia. WayneHey!! Wait a minute. I though Grand Rapids was a suburb of Borculo. (At least that's what they told me while I was growing up. Don't tellme it was a lie after all these years.)-- +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Todd Talsma +Sligh Furniture Company+Phone:616-394- 0560++Sr. Systems Analyst+1201 Industrial Avenue +Fax: 616-392- 9495++++++++++++++++++++++Holland MI 49423 ++++++++++++++++++++ from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 25 17:02:35 1997 Subject: Re: silk vs. nylon In a message dated 97-04-25 08:43:30 EDT, you write: It could happen, but as in wrapping a graphite rod, you can'tput too much tension on the thread when you wrap it. I'venever done a cane rod with nylon, but when wrapping agraphite rod with nylon I have less tension on the threadthan on the silk thread on a cane rod. I don't think too tightthread will do anything to a cane rod, but I've heard thatgraphite rods can break with too tight thread wrapping. Darryl Hayashida from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Apr 25 17:18:57 1997 SAA25260 for ; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 18:31:14-0400 Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? Jerry Just like my favorite program used to say when I was growing up - "Plunk your magic twanger, Frogie" I played with several tapers I had and could not duplicate the effect. Igot other bizzare behavor from the program - but that was unique. Regards Chris from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Fri Apr 25 17:33:33 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRODMAKERS@WUGATE.WUSTL.EDU; Fri, 25 Apr 1997 16:25:07 MDT #19314) RODMAKERS@WUGATE.WUSTL.EDU; Fri, Subject: Wrap Finish My first post of this question must have gotten lost in the mix. I'mconverting an Orvis Spinning Rod (kit circa 1969) to a fly rod for a friendHe desires transparent wraps. Will most any finish adhere to what Orvisused?Thanks in advancewjerry from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Sat Apr 26 06:25:47 1997 Subject: Re: Milward binder - thread tension I built myself a Garrison type binder out of scrap aluminium from a junkdealer. A local sewing machine centre found some spare thread bobins forpulleys and two tension gadgets that work fine with my cotton upholsterythread. from Canerods@aol.com Sat Apr 26 09:37:19 1997 Subject: Re: Wrap Finish In a message dated 97-04-25 18:54:37 EDT, you write: Subj: Wrap FinishDate: 97-04-25 18:54:37 EDTFrom: GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDUSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu My first post of this question must have gotten lost in the mix. I'mconverting an Orvis Spinning Rod (kit circa 1969) to a fly rod for afriendHe desires transparent wraps. Will most any finish adhere to what Orvisused? Thanks in advancewjerry Jerry, Is this an impregnated rod? If it is, then maybe just use someflexcoat. If it's a varnished rod, then wrap with white or light tan thread. Then coatyour wraps with several coats of the same spar varnish you'll use on therestof the rod and the wraps should be transparent. You'll get bettertransparentresults with silk thread rather than nylon thread. Won't this rod be too stiff for a fly rod? All IMHO Don B. from russett@bcn.net Sat Apr 26 11:24:26 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06066 for Subject: nice rod tube Hi Does anyone know where you can get a nice heavy black annodized rod tubewith brass caps. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sat Apr 26 12:34:47 1997 Subject: RE:nice rod tube RO>Hi RO>Does anyone know where you can get a nice heavy black annodized rodtubeRO>with brass caps. I got a couple of tubes like this made up for my Orvis rods by Orvis.Ask for their "Classic" rod tube design. Cost was ~$25 with a S/NedLabel for my existing bamboo rods. Might be cheaper without the label? Don B. from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 26 16:26:06 1997 ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 17:38:35 -0400 Subject: Re: nice rod tube On Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:17:07 +0100, Larry & Jane Russett wrote: Hi Does anyone know where you can get a nice heavy black annodized rodtubewith brass caps. Try: Landmark Company4350 Ryan Way Carson City, Nevada 89706 Phone: (702) 882-6667 Regards Chris from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Apr 26 18:26:52 1997 TAA24371 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:26:48 Subject: Disconnect To the List, 4/26/97I was disconnected for a couple of days starting 4/22, I think. If Imissed anything important in that period please send again. Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Apr 26 18:37:19 1997 TAA25364 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:37:15 Subject: Two-bobbin Binding To Don and the List, 4/26/97Trying again after being disconnected, in answer to your question thetwo-bobbin method was detailed in Issue 14 of TPF. Would be most happytoelaborate further if it would help. Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Apr 26 18:50:27 1997 TAA26966 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 19:50:23 Subject: Quads (Trying again after disconnect) Hi Ed and the List, 4/26/97In response to your question about quad tapers, I made several nice quadsusing straight geometric conversions from Garrison hex tapers and hisstandard stress curve. Measured across the flats, quad diameter at anystation equals .931 times the hex diameter for equivalent area. Quadsbuiltthis way seem just a bit slower than their hex prototypes. Someone shoulddevelop optimized tapers and stress curves for quads. They seempromising. Bill from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sat Apr 26 19:14:51 1997 ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: relist Please reinstate me on the list I use to be there. from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sat Apr 26 19:51:15 1997 ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Denver Bill is back Here is the story. My wife stoped talking to me the first 4 weeks in January. She then decided that after her second thearopy session she was co- dependant. After she read two books on the subject she closed down completely. Everyday she looked at me and told me she was angry and could not tell me why. She said she was mentally abused by her parents and didnot want to work on our marrige. I decided to give her a seperation and lived in my pop up camper for six weeks only to have her decided to call it quits. So for six weeks no computer, no ham radio, no rod making. It was a real test. She even gladly took the aniversy cane rod I made for her and I gave her the rod the first week in March...March 15 was our third aniversy.I asked her why she took the rod if she had wanted a devorce for a long time so she said. Her responce was " it was a beautiful thing"I rented a storage room for the house items and it has electristy so I have enough room in it to plane rods. In fact I glued up the fourth rods but section today. Last thrusady I moved out 95 percent of all things in our house...they her mine before I met her. She had the gual to ask me to leave the canoe... I said" I lost both step daughters, I lost my best friend, I lost my fly fishing partner and my wife ...I said I dont think so." Last weekend I took the popup to the Arkansaw and caught a few trout on my split cane rods and had the wind blow the camper door shut on the tip of my favorite rod a 6'6" Cat tapper.Life can be bitter sweet and some where there is a silver lining ..life goes on and rods will be built and fish will be sort after. Love does not always produce the results we want. My heart was broke but will heal in time.Tight lines to all...I missed everyone greatly. P.S. Chris thanks for the letter my wife never forwarded anything to me the past six weeks so picked it up when I was moving the washer and dryer out . Regards, Bill Hensel from jfoster@gte.net Sat Apr 26 19:56:16 1997 Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? Wayne Thanks.. Have you ever figured out what the oscillation is on some of the tapers?They are obviously good tapers it's just that the hexrod math looksstrange. Jerry from wishbone@headwaters.com Sat Apr 26 20:20:36 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Re: Denver Bill is back Bill! Ahh..your story brings back tons of memories..ha. Know exactly what you went through. Almost gave up rod building myself not long ago, and yeah..I know all bout that codependancy thing too! But guess what? Things do get better, and there is a silver lining! Just takes time, bro! Just get out there and do a lot of fishing! Been there..done that. Regards, Ian H. ScottWishbone Custom Rods2 Henry St., R.R. #1Grand Valley, Ont.L0N 1G0 519-928-2906http://www.absolute-sway.com/wishbone "It is in men as in soils, where sometimes thereis a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."Jonothan Swift IAW from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Apr 26 20:59:28 1997 Subject: Re: Busy Lately ???? Jerry,If you're old and slow ,I'm a sloth.Hank.P.S. I've been having fun with adobe photo shop-even made a letterheadinquark express from a drawing of a peregrine falcon over a lake that I did .Thanks. from EMiller257@aol.com Sat Apr 26 21:38:25 1997 Subject: Re: Quads (Trying again after disconnect) Thanks for the info Bill. I've been intrigued with the idea of making aquadrate rod ever since a friend gave me the remains of a quadrate boatrodthat he used for ocean fishing in Florida. I took the smallest end of thismonster and cut some sections out for bodkins (fly tying tools). I alsohelda beautty at the Midwest Fly Show that was made by Don Schroeder ofJanesville, Wi. Don is now making rods full time after about fifteen yearsof part time building. Lastly, I stumbled onto Bruce Conner'sFAQ article which I think was written up in Fly Rod and Reel Magazine. Bruceincludes a very short section on a down and dirty method of doing aquadrate.Some time this year I'm going to give it a try. I'll let you know how itturns out. Best regards, from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Sat Apr 26 21:59:52 1997 WAA19001 for ; Sat, 26 Apr 1997 22:59:39 Subject: Re: Two-bobbin Binding At 07:37 PM 4/26/97 -0400, Bill wrote:To Don and the List, 4/26/97Trying again after being disconnected, in answer to your question thetwo-bobbin method was detailed in Issue 14 of TPF. Would be most happytoelaborate further if it would help. Bill Bill, Please do - My copies of TPF don't go back as far as #14. Thanks,Johnny-------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from santiago@ricochet.net Sat Apr 26 22:29:39 1997 Subject: Re: Hi Jerry Foster wrote: Hello Been out of town for a few weeks, will start catching up with thebacklog of requests for postings...sorry about the delay.Starting with yours Leo. Chris has sent several new links and we'veacquired the taper for a young midge... anything new? Jerry thanks jerry, it is beautiful and we already have a few orders. has your www beennoted as one of the best yet? if not, it should be...you have my vote. leo from Cowboy_Ken@msn.com Sun Apr 27 03:51:55 1997 SMTPSVC;Fri, 25 Apr 1997 21:54:56 -0700 Subject: Introduction Hello, I am new to the list but eager to learn as much as I can about the art of creating cane flyrods. I currently own a Granger, two South Bends and a Phillipson (all soon toneed the attentions of a restoration artist). I am 40, single and a flyfisher, fly tier for approximately 15 years. I work a little playhouse in Jackson, Wyoming where I go to wind down and chaseSnake River cutts. I will be at this years World Flyfishing Championships and next years OneFly Competition (both in Jackson Hole) as a volunteer. Maybe one of you will be their two and I can show you what I know of the beautiful Snake River inthe shadow of the gorgeous Tetons. I also attend the Fly Tackle Dealer Showeach year in September. I am ALWAYS looking to meet new flyfishing fanatics. Joining this list hopefully will expand my relationships and horizons. Can anyone offer any experiences, ownership, and opinions on cane rodsbuilt I have been unable to find any reference to his products. I met Davidbriefly in 1996 at the Fly Tackle Dealer Show in Denver. I did not have the opportunity to cast his rods but was impressed by their fit and finish. Thanks ! Ken Cowboy_Ken@msn.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Apr 27 05:04:56 1997 Sun, 27 Apr 1997 18:03:07 +0800 (WST) Subject: Hardy Rods (fwd) A person called Karlo Machado emailed me today re a Hardy rod which sounds pretty good. I've forwarded the message here in the hope somebody can help Karlo out. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Hardy Rods Hello, I live in Nelson British Columbia Canada. At the age of 14 Ivisited Australia and was given a old split cane Hardy's fly fishing rod. I am now 30 and have decided to sell it but am not familiar with all the technicalities. I was wondering if you knew the price of one or could tell me who I would contact throught the internet to find the value of the rod. I also wondered if you knew a sight that I could advertise it acquiredt at an estate auction from a doctor that was very old. The canvas package says "Hardy's"- The world angling specialistAlnwick england- the rod is in very good condition - it has the inscription of -The Lo. 1 "tronagram" Fly rod. It also has Bri pat #1962161 . Thak you for your time Karl Machadoemail-kmachado@cln.etc.bc.ca from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Apr 27 09:47:57 1997 LAA09597 for ; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 11:00:35-0400 Subject: Re: Quads (Trying again after disconnect) Bill I have cast the Quad ( that a one side missing from a 5 sider?)that you built using this method at Roscoe. I really liked that rod. Itprovesthat for a start - the conversion factor will get you into the ballpark. After thatit is up to the maker to "tune it" to their own particular tastes. Regards Chris from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Sun Apr 27 09:49:16 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA3525 +0000 Subject: Re: Denver Bill is back Bill, Hang in there. Many of us have similar stories to tell, some of usmultiple ones. You're doing a great job of keepin' on keepin' on. That'show life comes back. Best, Ed Estlow from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Sun Apr 27 10:11:20 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA9185 +0000 Subject: Re: Quads (Trying again after disconnect) Bill Fink wrote: Hi Ed and the List, 4/26/97In response to your question about quad tapers, I made several nicequadsusing straight geometric conversions from Garrison hex tapers and hisstandard stress curve. Measured across the flats, quad diameter at anystation equals .931 times the hex diameter for equivalent area. Quadsbuiltthis way seem just a bit slower than their hex prototypes. Someoneshoulddevelop optimized tapers and stress curves for quads. They seempromising. Bill Bill, Converting a hex taper to a quad taper by matching areas is a goodbeginning. However, I believe it may be better to match section moduli(a function of the cross sectional shape, not just area). This will givedifferent dimensions by a few percent. I believe that would give you an performance. Stresses across points will be different, I think (Ihaven't worked through the math yet on this). Best regards,Ed Estlow from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sun Apr 27 16:34:08 1997 ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Cattanach 6' 6" You wrote: Jon-- look at page 222 and compare it to page 223. Two pages with two different 2-pctapers for a 6'6" 4-weight. The rod I am interested in is the one on the leftside of page 222 (11/64th ferrule). I'm almost positive its a misprint and therod is a three-weight. I guessing this is so because of the other even numberedpages in the tapers section-- for 6', 6'3", 7'0", and 7'3", all these are3-weight tapers. So, my question remains, is this 11/64 ferrule 6'6" taper a three-weight ornot? ------------------Original text From: Jon Lintvet , on 3/31/97 11:31 AM:You are looking at a 2pc on the left of the page and a 3pc on the right hand side of the page. That's all. On 31 Mar 97 at 10:28, Don DeLoach wrote: All: I have decided on Wayne's 6'6" 4-weight taper for my first rod. I'd like toknow, though, why he has two 6'6" tapers for 4-weight in the book--the oneI'mbuilding is the lighter one (butt is .240 I think). Could it be that it isactually a three-weight (typo)? What's the difference between the two tapers.One is stouter than the other--does this just mean its a little faster? Thanks Don DeLoach Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean Hello, Been out of touch isolated from it all but let me say I built up the 6'6" Cat taper and love it in fact I have a butt and tip section glue up as of this week for the 2nd one. Go for it the rod cast super and real nice work horse on small streams with good backbone also. My first fish this season was a 16 inch rainbow with it.The other weekend I cut off the tip on a fishing trip to the arkansaw river and it is now a 6' rod hope it cast ok . Denver Bill from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Apr 27 18:44:52 1997 Subject: Re: Quads (Trying again after disconnect) Ed Estlow wrote: Bill Fink wrote: Hi Ed and the List, 4/26/97In response to your question about quad tapers, I made several nicequadsusing straight geometric conversions from Garrison hex tapers and hisstandard stress curve. Measured across the flats, quad diameter at anystation equals .931 times the hex diameter for equivalent area. Quadsbuiltthis way seem just a bit slower than their hex prototypes. Someoneshoulddevelop optimized tapers and stress curves for quads. They seempromising. Bill Bill, Converting a hex taper to a quad taper by matching areas is a goodbeginning. However, I believe it may be better to match section moduli(a function of the cross sectional shape, not just area). This will givedifferent dimensions by a few percent. I believe that would give you an performance. Stresses across points will be different, I think (Ihaven't worked through the math yet on this). Best regards,Ed Estlow Having made some quads. I think I can safely advise that section modulus is the best comparison. However, I think that there is some inertial factor because one can rarely match frequency with this conversion. It involves a lot of "tweaking". Even then, different makers get different results.I think I'm glad of that.John from Cowboy_Ken@msn.com Sun Apr 27 19:48:00 1997 (8.6.8.1/Configuration 4) with SMTP id RAA26496 for; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 17:43:33 -0700 Subject: RE: Black Anodized Rod Tube Source On Sat, 26 Apr 1997 12:17:07 +0100, Larry & Jane Russett wrote: Hi Does anyone know where you can get a nice heavy black anodized rod tubewith brass caps. I believe I saw the product you are looking for at the '95 and '96 Fly Tackle Dealer Show in Denver. There are 2 inch and 1 5/8 inch tubes avaialble.They seemed quite nice and the prices were reasonable. Colors as I recall are anodized blue, red, green and black WITH brass or anodized "simulatedbrass" caps. There were likely several different sized models available (various lengths). I also recall that the black tube was black textured powder paint insteadof anodized color dipped aluminum. Clear Creek CompanyP.O. Box 182110 West ProspectNew Hampton, Iowa 50659-0064 (800) 894-0483(515) 394-2048FAX (515) 394-2048 Hope this works for you. Regards, KenCowboy_Ken@msn.com from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Sun Apr 27 21:06:34 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 27 Apr 1997 20:03:27 MDT #19314) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: RE:relist Welcome back Bill. How are the rods perfoming? from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Apr 27 23:34:30 1997 Subject: 6' 6" The 6' 6" taper from my book (page 222) in a #3 weight - Delivered toRonBarch 4 - 3 - 89 (blonde). The taper on page 223 in the #4 version CrisKelly3 - 12 - 87 (flamed). These are deriver from a modified (increasedamplitude)Garrison taper but converted to the 6" 6" format. This is just one of a fewtext errors in the book - I am working to correct these on the next goround. Wayne from Cowboy_Ken@msn.com Mon Apr 28 00:14:30 1997 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Sun, 27 Apr 1997 22:13:29 -0700 Subject: Introduction Hello, I have had the luck of discovering this list on the net and have just completed the reprint of 6 months of archives - wow ! What a wealth of information and experience in the art of cane rod making. God, what have I been missing. I am not a maker but a flyfisherman and tier (15 years) who appreciatesthe work of artisans. I own a Granger, 2 South Bends and a Phillipson. All four rods could use a nice restoration. I own a home in Jackson Hole Wyoming, live and work in southernCalifornia and toil for United Airlines, maybe we can barter "something" one day. Maybe "barter" is not the word, but an evening stalking Snake River cutts in the shadows of the Tetons, can weaken any mans testament to bribery. I have but one question before I sit back and wait for the rodmakers list to arrive: Is anyone familiar with the work of David Norwich of Scotland. I metDavid at the 1996 Fly Tackle Dealer Show in Denver and although unable to cast his rods, I felt that they were aesthetically beautiful works of art. I realize you are all gentlemen and would never disparage another cane maker, Iwas just wondering how well known he is in the United States. I have located someold Flyfisherman Magazine ads he ran about 10 years ago and a short "press release" product review in Fly Rod and Reel and that is about it. Call me curious, that is all. Glad to be here ! Regards, Ken Cowboy_Ken@msn.com Corporate Headquarters for LONESOME COWBOY, INCORPORATEDAnd Occasionally PISCATORIAL PURSUITS INTERNATIONAL, LIMITEDAnd Rarely UNITED AIRLINES, INCORPORATED Eventually, all things merge into one, and a river runs through it. The river was cut by the world's great flood and runs over rocks from the basementof time. On some of the rocks are timeless raindrops. Under the rocks are the words, and some of the words are theirs. I am haunted by waters. Norman Maclean "A River Runs Through It" from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 28 04:59:44 1997 KAA16836 for ; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 10:58:23+0100 Soggy rods Now here's a thing. I bought a bedraggled little 8' # 5 made circa 1950 byMilwards of Redditch (famous old British rod-maker: sadly defunct). Todescribe it as bedraggled is nothing more than a salesman's over-sell: itwas DEAD. I bought it for pennies, for the nice N/S fittings. It was SOGGY- that is - it stayed set (partially) in any curve I cared to put impart. BUT (you know how it is) I stripped off the varnish of ages, and all thefittings, and found nice flamed cane underneath. I then left it in a corner WELL: for some reason, after that week the rod was very much 'springier',soI decided to give it a chance, and hung it in the boiler (furnace) room. To cut a six week story short, the rod is now back to new. Removing allthecrap and drying out the cane has transformed it. Once the sections werestraightened they remained straight. There is no set, and the rod has asuperb sprung-steel feel. Who's the expert on this? Was the old varnish keeping in moisture? If so,why hadn't the cane/glue deteriorated beyond recall? Were the 1,487coats ofbrown varnish supporting the imposed bend, and not allowing the rod torecover straightness? I'm now convinced that heavily varnished rods are prone to sets. I'm not atall clear about what is going on between the cane and the varnish to causethis effect, but I am now also quite convinced that minimally wrapped andvarnished rods maintain their straightness for longer: always assumingthatthe varnish is still intact and waterproof, and bearing in mind that allvarnishes are to a greater or lesser extent, hygroscopic (I think that's theword - they let in moisture). I also sail my on classic wooden yacht. We noticed that even when drieddown to about 8% moisture content, then fully encapsulated with epoxy(WESTsystem) the wood underneath was back to 25% water content within twoyears.Moreover, boats that were not encapsulated were able to dry out whenconditions allowed. Encapsulated boats stayed wet. Aha - could this FACTapply also to rods made of wood-like giant grass? An engineer would probably be able to explain the phenomenon quite easily.Iexpect he would tell us that we elect to use our highly processed Tonkincane for its outstanding structural and engineering ability. He would askwhy on earth we should expect common-o-garden varnish to have the sameabilities to recover from the stretching and compression loads imposed onthe cane. He might tell us that ten heavy coats of varnish on a the buttsection of a very stiff (thick) rod might not be all that obvious, but thatthe same ten coats of varnish on a thin fly rod tip would change the actionof the rod completely. My degree was not maths based, so what follows may be total head up tail each (brushed) coat of varnish is (0.00175") 1.75 thousandths of an inchthick (maybe it isn't), then we multiply that by 10 (ten coats) and becauseit is on both sides of the rod we multiply by 2 then we arrive at an overallthickness of varnish of .035" A #6 fly rod tip might typically be .075" indiameter. It seems then that the varnish (in this extreme case) can amountto an increase of over 46% in the diameter of the rod - and this 46% inun-structural (maybe it is) heavy varnish. More typically, and for the sake of charity, let us assume that eachvarnishcoat is only (0.0016") 1.60 thousandths of an inch thick, then we multiply we arrive at a varnish thickness of 0.0256". The butt section of 9' # 8type rod might typically be 0.30". In this case there is an increase in thediameter of the rod by 8.5% in un-structural, heavy varnish. These calculations are very naive, probably also ill-conceived. There'sbound to be more to the whole business than these bare figures. Ourengineerfriend would probably offer a more complex explanation. Because basic engineering law tells us that it is the outermost part (thesurface) of the rod that confers most of its rigidity (the core of the roddoes little to add stiffness) it is possible that a very hard coat ofvarnish might even have a stiffening effect on a rod's action.Nevertheless,experience demonstrates that multiple coats of aged varnish produceun-helpful effects. It seems to me that the most likely thing is that there are effects fromboth the varnish and the retained moisture, and that (as in the case of mypoor little Milwards) in extreme cases these effects can render a caneshaftnear to useless. Am I talking total garbage? You can talk plainly to me. John Cooper (England) from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Mon Apr 28 08:10:25 1997 06:09:26 -0700 Subject: Re: nice rod tube Orvis has a decent one for $24. Also try REC. --Rich------------------------------ Hi Does anyone know where you can get a nice heavy black annodized rod tubewith brass caps. ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 09:30:21-0700 adams.berk.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06066 for Subject: nice rod tube from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 28 10:20:25 1997 Subject: Re: No Subject In a message dated 97-04-28 06:04:00 EDT, you write: Yes sir. Thick coats of varnish definitely change the action. I'm alsoconvinced that any impregnation chemical introduced into the bamboowill change the action also. But going by what is available in the flyfishing stores, people want thick glossy varnish or impregnatedrods. A good stress curve program will have a varnish and guide"fudge factor" incorporated into it to allow for the extra weight. Darryl Hayashida from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Mon Apr 28 11:29:59 1997 2.0/2.12um) id JAA000.41; Mon, 28 Apr 1997 09:29:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Two-bobbin Binding Hi Bill: I too would be interested in knowing more about the two-bobbin method of rod wrapping. I'm unsure if issue #14 of TPF is still available to order as a back issue. Thanks in advance. Regards, Rich Brown from rcurry@jlc.net Mon Apr 28 14:52:33 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA26262 for Subject: Re: Introduction Ken wrote: Is anyone familiar with the work of David Norwich of Scotland. I metDavid atthe 1996 Fly Tackle Dealer Show in Denver and although unable to casthisrods, I felt that they were aesthetically beautiful works of art. I realizeyou are all gentlemen and would never disparage another cane maker, Iwas justwondering how well known he is in the United States. I have locatedsome oldFlyfisherman Magazine ads he ran about 10 years ago and a short "pressrelease" product review in Fly Rod and Reel and that is about it. Call me curious, that is all. Glad to be here ! Regards,Dear Curious,I've seen and cast a Norwich rod made for a friend and old listmemberJohn Friedman. Unfortunately, I cast it at one of the Graylinggatherings after trying some of the work of the members of this list.IMHO, it didn't compare favorably in casting performance with some ofthe rods of similar length and line weight made by many of ourlistmates.Best regards,Reed from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Apr 28 16:07:43 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 14:06:10 -0700 Subject: spinning rod 4.0.994.63 =_NextPart_000_01BC53DD.53303F80" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC53DD.53303F80 Does anybody have a taper for a 6 foot bamboo spinning rod. I have some leftover strips, not enough to make a fly rod but enough to make a spinning rod. I figure that the strips aren't so critical in a spinning rod and my favorite nephew requested that I make him one when I get a chance. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC53DD.53303F80 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC53DD.53303F80-- from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Apr 28 18:15:36 1997 Subject: Quads Hi Ed and the List, 4/27/97Ed, you seem to agree that quads have a lot of untapped promise, but youlost me on that section moduli function. I'm an electrical engineer withdefinite limitations in the mechanical area though I do have someunderstanding of stress curves and I have good software to deal withthem.My most recent quad is not a geometric derivitave of a hex taper butrathera stand-alone with its own independent stress curve, although the stresscurve is Garrison's standard which perhaps works best for hex. All myquadsare nice but on the slow side which is why I suggested that more work isneeded to realize their full potential. My software tells me that thestresses in quads are so low that there is plenty of room forexperimentation. I've never had a chance to handle the available quads onthe market: Quadrate's, Per Brandin's etc. Probably the biggest drawback to quads is the ferrule problem. How doyousolve it? I make only one piecers, a cop-out. And the biggest plus, I guess, is the fact that you need to make only fourstrips per section ( but good glue joints do seem more difficult. No freelunch!) Best ' sport, Bill from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 28 18:19:27 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA25551 for Subject: Re: spinning rod Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Does anybody have a taper for a 6 foot bamboo spinning rod. I havesome leftover strips, not enough to make a fly rod but enough to makea spinning rod. I figure that the strips aren't so critical in aspinning rod and my favorite nephew requested that I make him one whenI get a chance. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Patrick --------------------------------------------------------------- Part 1.2 Type: application/ms-tnefEncoding: base64Pat this attachment is back. It must be something in your signaturefile. Can anyone else open this attachment? It is at the end of Pat'sname. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Apr 28 20:21:33 1997 Subject: Lovely Grayrock Weekend It's now early monday morning and the kids and I have just returnedformthe clubhouse. It was your typical trout opener - slow hatches and evenslower fishing for us dry fly folks but great weather and a great time.Talked with Steve Southard (Fly Factory and TTBBBQ) - The discussioneventually focused on TTBBBQ III from jfoster@gte.net Mon Apr 28 20:52:10 1997 Subject: Re: spinning rod Martin The attatchment to Patricks mail is an X-400 address trailer. much likethe glop you see in the archives under everyones mail. Ignore it unlesshe says he's sending an attatchment? erry from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 28 21:06:37 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA6052 +0000 Subject: Re: Quads Bill Fink wrote: Hi Ed and the List, 4/27/97Ed, you seem to agree that quads have a lot of untapped promise, butyoulost me on that section moduli function. I'm an electrical engineer withdefinite limitations in the mechanical area though I do have someunderstanding of stress curves and I have good software to deal withthem.My most recent quad is not a geometric derivitave of a hex taper butrathera stand-alone with its own independent stress curve, although the stresscurve is Garrison's standard which perhaps works best for hex. All myquadsare nice but on the slow side which is why I suggested that more work isneeded to realize their full potential. My software tells me that thestresses in quads are so low that there is plenty of room forexperimentation. I've never had a chance to handle the available quads onthe market: Quadrate's, Per Brandin's etc.Probably the biggest drawback to quads is the ferrule problem. How doyousolve it? I make only one piecers, a cop-out.And the biggest plus, I guess, is the fact that you need to make onlyfourstrips per section ( but good glue joints do seem more difficult. No freelunch!) Best ' sport, Bill Bill, Sorry about confusing you. A quick word of explanation. Section modulus(moduli is plural, I think) is a function of the cross sectional shapeof a structural member and is used to calculate stress in thatstructural member. I'm writing a short paper on engineering terminologyand elementary beam mechanics (for this purpose, a fly rod is a beam,albeit verrrry flexible and given to large deflections) which I intendto get to Wayne to distribute at Grayrock III if I can't make it myself. As to your other comments and questions, you have infinitely moreexperience than I as I have yet to build my first rod. I've beendistracted with a job search, now solved. My background is in aerospaceengineering and strength of materials. You are right, I am facinatedwith quads. I don't know why, they're just different, I guess. Regarding the ferrule problem on quads, there is a gentleman here inMinneapolis who makes and sells quads (his name is Mike Spittler). Hehas what I think is a wonderfully elegant solution. His ferrules arefour-sided where they fit to the blank and transition to round for themale-female engagement (no cracks, Brian!). I believe he makes themhimself, certainly modifies them to four-sided. They look great. I don'tknow if he would sell them or not. Hope some of this helps, rather than just taking bandwidth. Best regards,Ed Estlow from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Apr 28 21:21:31 1997 Subject: Re: No Subject John,I'm no expert on varnish but 8 coats!? Wow, I usually do 3 and they arecut 50/50 with mineral spirits. If I do tung oil I may do 8-10 coats with agreat deal of rubbing between. Darryl is right about the effect of varnishonaction-the only problem with a fudge factor is we all tend to do thingsdifferently, therefore I would leave the fudge factor out and do a swagcalculation as far as the varnish effect goes(swag= simple wild assedguess).Being a retired farmer I do alot of that :-).Hank. from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 28 22:47:06 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA03197 for Subject: Re: spinning rod Jerry Foster wrote: Martin The attatchment to Patricks mail is an X-400 address trailer. much likethe glop you see in the archives under everyones mail. Ignore it unlesshe says he's sending an attatchment? erryThanks Jerry,I opened up the attachment in "notepad" today and I was thinking that itwas something like an automatic mail attachment. I guess it was. It wasdriving me crazy. Things like that I can't handle unless I know whatthey are. Thanks again-- Martin Jensen from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 29 00:31:55 1997 Subject: Re: spinning rod In a message dated 97-04-28 20:31:31 EDT, you write: About a year ago I made a split cane spinning rod for mymother - she doesn't fly fish. The taper I used was justmy Colorado Bootstrap planing form closed up from.100 diameter to whatever it is six feet down from thatpoint. I guess it must be a straight taper. As a spinningrod it's okay, although a little stiff - fast I guess you wouldcall it. It would be in the ultralight to light range. Darryl Hayashida from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Apr 29 02:16:02 1997 Subject: Favorite Stream - 7' taper In a recent issue of FR & R John G. wrote of his fishing the Jordan here inMichigan. This June I hope to show some of you this river, which for mefoldsspecial memories. The Jordan is north and west of Grayrock near the roadsignof Alba. It is unique from most Michigan rivers because of the vast federaland state land holdings. Of the 22 miles of the river 11 are sheltered bythis protection. Connected to Lake Michigan via Lake Charlovoix it sees amigration of 'silver' lake browns during the hex hatch of june and july.Although reduced over the years because of TMF lamperside the hatches areexpected to rebound now with the use of an electric weir.I first fished the Jordan with my dad and cousin Stanley in the late 60'sthen as now the river was a magical place to fish. The pristene beauty ofmiles of tamrack lined banks and the lack of visual civilization make theexperience seem bigger than life. And as day turns to night it can beenchantingly quiet.As with other rivers several of the named locations hold tradition. Ihaveactually given a name to one myself - the Rodmakers Hole. To date it hasswallowed up three that I know of - two had warning the other was lead inbysomeone not knowing the river a couple of years back. They will gounnamed. of times and some sobbering ones. The summer I graduated from high school I made a run to the river withalife long friend, Larry Woodard. We had fished together for years in thelocal streams and ventured to the Jordan on a warm and sunny fridayafternoon. After several hours of fishing and a couple of dirnks later wewere posed with not wanting to make the 3 hour drive home in larry's oldjeep. So we made do to spend the night slumped in the jeep. Somewhere into the night a storm brewed up and we became aware ofthe factthat the top for our room with a view was back in Newaygo. The toughdecisionwas which was going to be worse, sleeping in the rain or craweling underthething and having to deal with the oil dripping off the frame. Last yearwhenMike Biondo ( aka List Kahuna) and Matt and I made a quick fly by of theriver, Mike's jeep reminded of that night to the point that I thought Iwouldsee Larry spring from it. But Larry is fishing different streams today -drafted later that year, Larry Woodard Jr. was a casuality of that conflict.And then on opening day of 1981 in front of a group of friends I placed aLeonard Catskill Fairy fly rod on a pickup topper to go off adventuring upSection 13 Creek. Not paying attention to time I returned to an anxiouscrew,we needed to get to a cabin near Sharon on the Manistee by night fall. Allhad been stowed away and the motors were running. Upon waking the nextmorning, I inquired about my fly rod and where it had been stored away at.Suddenly the reality of the situation set in when I realized that no one hadknown that I had placed my rod on the pick up topper. Wishfully I checked,but it was gone.Because I have only fished in the head waters of the river - which are ashort rodder's delight I focused at a rod for portion of the stream. Ingeneral most rods will work but in certain stretches where the tamerackscanopy the river - tight loops are a must have. The influence for the designcan from an older gentleman who I saw fish the river for years. His fishcarwas a 1957 Rambler with a charter member TU sticker in the rear window.Hefished a 7' Dickerson which he had gotten from Lyle personally. Bellaire isjust a few miles from Alba. The gentleman had grown up on a farm not farfromthe Jordan and had kept the farm as his northern retreat from a life inChicago. I don't recall the gentleman's name but we talked a few times. Hismost interesting story was of when he was a kid and had watched amuskratdisappear in a swirl of fish at Grave's Crossing. The gentleman assertedthata 7' rod was the only length to use on the sections that we shared over theyears. I had a feeling that he had a few other rods and that he spoke fromexperience. I never did cast the Dickerson but I know that they were of theolder dry fly actions.The action of the rod is a blend or hybred of a Cross Sylph model and ahinged parabolic produced for a #4 weight line. Now, I know that mostmakershave named their rod actions and the one I heard that I liked the best wasofa reduced model of George Maurer's Bitch Creek Special - or Son of a Bitch.But I've never gotten into that but the same influences that draw out thenames are there - Piney Bridge - Section 13 Creek - and The RodmakersHole. from george.barnes@acornbbs.com Tue Apr 29 10:36:48 1997 LAA27349 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 11:42:29 - 0400 Ed Estlow, Bill Fink and anyone else who cares to comment: As Bill knows, I'm an old dirt engineer with minimum exposure to structural. It's always bothered me that we approach rod design on the basis of a cantilever when a fly rod in operation is a far cry from a standard cantilever with a fixed end. It's always seemed to me that a better analogy would be to approach the problem as a wing design, a process that is far beyond my capabilities. I'm delighted that someone with an aerospace background is having a look. As for ferrules, some time ago I think there was some information circulated on square nickle silver tubing. I'd taken the same route as Bill and simply omitted a ferrule in my quad. When the square tubing appeared, I printed it out with the intention of obtaining some and trying to solder up some ferrules. As usual my filing system ate the printout and I now find myself wondering if it was just an overactive imagination. George Barnes from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Apr 29 10:44:45 1997 QAA20784 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:44:24+0100 Subject: RE:soggy rods John, I asked this same question myself, some time back, I asked if anyone hada method to re-heat treat old rods. I guess I'll stick a rod up into my southern California home's attic fora few months and see what happens. I hope it's not just a pile of stickswith a puddle of melted hide glue. You're ideas about varnish also hold true - most of my restorationprojects arrive with the 2000 coats of varnish too. Sometimes it's hardto tell if their any cane inside all that crud. It's has to change thecasting characteristics of a rod. Don Bruns PS - Do you know of a good rod restorer for Hardy cane rods? There wasrecently a fellow, from Norway, on the R.O.F.F. newsgroup looking forsome help in getting his Hardy cane rod's tip repaired. I emailed himsome ideas - including contacting Hardy. Maybe you can do the work forhim or maybe you know of someone who can do it. I told him that the dutyand shipping charges to have the work done in the states might be lotsof money on top of the repair costs. Don, Hardys will refurbish their own rods - at a price. I would guess that thebest restorer in the history of the world is Edward Barder, Ham Mill,Newbury, England. He used to work for Hardys, and now makes rod professionally. His outputisutterly superb, and his restoration charges reasonable. He can be a bit crusty to deal with (believe me, I know this) but this ispure artistic temperament - underneath I think he's very good news indeed. I have three rods restored by Barder, and two made by him. They arePERFECT.If you want something in particular, he'll certainly be able to do it. Aye, John Cooper (England) from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 29 12:33:36 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:34:07 EDT Subject: Varnish So everyone knows...a while back Wayne mentioned some varnish from Painters Supply that was good. Well I though I would post some info just in case anyone else wanted it for their books. The # is 616-245-2148. I ordered the 77-5 Polyurethane. It was 18.17 delivered. from the time they gave me I think they only sell wholesale. Not quantity wise, but I had to give them my sales and use tax #. If anyone wants the 77- 5 or 77-10 just give me a holler. I don't work for anyone, just was trying to help everyone out. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Canerods@aol.com Tue Apr 29 12:58:39 1997 Subject: Re: soggy rods In a message dated 97-04-29 11:55:59 EDT, you write: Don, Hardys will refurbish their own rods - at a price. I would guess that thebest restorer in the history of the world is Edward Barder, Ham Mill,Newbury, England. He used to work for Hardys, and now makes rod professionally. Hisoutputisutterly superb, and his restoration charges reasonable. He can be a bit crusty to deal with (believe me, I know this) but this ispure artistic temperament - underneath I think he's very good newsindeed. I have three rods restored by Barder, and two made by him. They arePERFECT.If you want something in particular, he'll certainly be able to do it. Aye, John Cooper (England) John, You mean something like Terry A.? My grandfather was a crusty oldEnglishman and artisan - I know what they're like too. Or as we used to say about our Admiral Rickover (back in my navy days) - "He's not God - but he's qualified to stand the watch!" Ta, Don Burns from whensel@ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 29 13:05:24 1997 ix9.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Camping at Grayrock You wrote: Is anyone else going to be camping while at the Grayrock Gathering? Iam, and would like to know where others are staying. I plan to arriveearly in the week and stay through Saturday. I'm looking for a good, clean, cheap campground with hot showers and anice machine. Brian Brain, Bill here in denver. I have a popup camper and if I go will stay in it. If you get any infomation please forward me. Regards, Bill from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 29 13:20:57 1997 Subject: Re: No Subject In a message dated 4/29/97 3:43:36 PM, George Barnes wrote: George, I guess people have done this, and maybe someone will comment. Itseems to me that a square ferrule would be devilish to dress to a goodsliding fit. I would think that the reinforced splice method advocated byDeLespinay in The Planing Form would work for 4 strip rods. I have nottriedit on a six strip rod yet, but intend to on my next rod. The theory is thatyou don't get the flat spot or the weight of the ferrule, and the rod castslike a one piece rod. You just have to get used to the idea that your rod isheld together by a piece of plastic tape. - -----Tom from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Apr 29 13:23:30 1997 Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 13:24:33 -0500 Subject: RE: Camping at Grayrock 4.0.994.63 If I can come I will rent one of the primitive cabins here.He also rents campsites. He is right on the Manistee. Whispering Pines Guide ServiceFrank Love11763 W. 612 Frederic Mi. 49733517/348-8113 Olaf Borge, Systems Programmer/Basic SystemsCNO/AISSUniversity of Illinois728 West Roosevelt RoadChicago, Illinois 60607-7007Phone: (312)996-5212 INTERNET: oborge@uic.edu ----------From: whensel@ix.netcom.com[SMTP:whensel@ix.netcom.com]Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 1997 1:04 PM Subject: Re: Camping at Grayrock You wrote: Is anyone else going to be camping while at the Grayrock Gathering? Iam, and would like to know where others are staying. I plan to arriveearly in the week and stay through Saturday. I'm looking for a good, clean, cheap campground with hot showers and anice machine. Brian Brain, Bill here in denver. I have a popup camper and if I go will stay in it. If you get any infomation please forward me. Regards, Bill from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Tue Apr 29 13:33:37 1997 CDT Subject: RE: Camping at Grayrock Olaf seez... If I can come I will rent one of the primitive cabins here.He also rents campsites. He is right on the Manistee. Whispering Pines Guide ServiceFrank Love11763 W. 612 Frederic Mi. 49733517/348-8113 Also, don't forget, Wispering Pines is also the site of theThursday evening floats and BBQ and homebrew fest!!!! Mike- from s.wang@cummins.com Tue Apr 29 13:51:02 1997 14:50:38 -0400 smap (3.2) (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Camping at Grayrock This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------1B2F521EBC1 William Hensel wrote: You wrote: Is anyone else going to be camping while at the Grayrock Gathering? Iam, and would like to know where others are staying. I plan to arriveearly in the week and stay through Saturday.I'm looking for a good, clean, cheap campground with hot showers andanice machine. Brian Brain, Bill here in denver. I have a popup camper and if I go will stayin it. If you get any infomation please forward me. Regards, Bill Brain:I stayed in Hartwick Pines State Park last Sept. It's a very nicefacility. It's reasonable(I forgot exactly how much I paid for, sorry),but you do have to pay extra to get in. There are plenty private campinggrounds around the area, please see the attached file for moreinformation. Simon T. C. Wang s.wang@cummins.comSoftware Engineer Cummins Engine Company, Inc. http://www.cummins.com4080 West Jonathan Moore PikeCMC-7003, WestHill PlazaColumbus, IN 47201 Tel: (812)377-7632Fax: (812)377-1110 --------------1B2F521EBC1 [Image] Grayling Michigan Camping Grayling Michigan is surrounded by camp grounds. Private Parks and Campgrounds, State Parks, State Forest Campgrounds Private Parks and Campgrounds Penrod's CabinsModern log cottages on the AuSable River sleep 2-6. A family resort withtrout fishing, swimming & lawn games. Grills and picnic tables for eachcabin. Located within 5 miles of Michigan's finest cross country skiing.Thespacious grounds also accommodate Penrod's Canoe, Kayak and MountainBikeRental. Moderate weekly rates, some daily rentals available. Open yeararound. 100 Maple St., P.O. Box 432, Grayling, MI 49738; (517) 348-2910;Toll Free 888-467-4837. State ParksWherever you are in Michigan, you are never more than an hour from one ofMichigan's 96 state park or recreation areas. Three of Michigan's fineststate parks are located near Grayling. Hartwick Pines State ParkRt. E, Box 3840, Grayling MI 49738, phone (517)348-7068Hartwick Pines State Park features one of the few remaining tracts ofvirginpines in the Midwest, the Michigan Forest Visitor Center and a loggingcampmuseum. The 9,762-acre park also offers hiking, mountain bike trails andfishing opportunities on two inland lakes and the east branch of the AuSable River. Take I-75 north of Grayling and go east on M-93 two miles. N. Higgins Lake State Park11252 N. Higgins Lake Dr., Roscommon, MI 48653,(517)821-6125North Higgins Lake State Park offfers a glimpse of Michigan's history,featuring a Civilian Conservation Corps museum and a self- guided naturetrail through a state forest nursery area dating back to 1903. The parkalsohas a shallow swimming area appropriate for families with youngchildren.Boat rental is available. from I-75 take exit 244 and go left six miles. from US-27, take the Military Road exit and follow sign to the park. S. Higgins Lake State Park 106 State Park Dr., Roscommon, MI 48653,(517)821-6374 South Higgins LakeState Park provides boat rentals, hiking and cross-country ski trails, aself-guided nature trail and a gradually sloping swimming area. Trout andperch fishing and scuba diving are popular water activities. from US-27,take the Higgins Lake Road exit and go east six miles. State Forest CampgroundsMichigan boasts over 150 State Forest Campgrounds. Fifteen sites offeringcanoeing, fishing, horseback riding, hiking, mushroom hunting, and blueberry picking are located near Grayling. Daily fees range: $4 to $8. Pay bycheck payable to the State of Michigan and deposit in the "fee collectionpipe". Shupac Lake30 sites, boating, swimming, fishing, special regulations on boat motors.2 miles N. of Lovells via Twin Bridge Rd. Jones Lake42 sites, boating swimming, fishing, ramp for small boats.9 miles E. of Frederic via Co. Rd. 612 Upper Manistee River30 sites, 10 walk-in sites, canoeing, fishing, group camping for canoeists.6.5 miles W. of Frederic via Co. Rd. 612 Manistee River Bridge23 sites, canoeing, good trout fishing, canoe access8 miles W. of Grayling via M-72 Lake Margrethe37 sites, swimming, fishing, boat ramp & parking.5 miles W. of Grayling via M-72 Au Sable River Canoe CampDay use and canoe access campsites only, fishing, Au Sable River7 miles E. of Grayling via North Down River Td & Headquarters Rd. Burton's Landing12 sites, canoeing, fishing on Au Sable River, canoe access4.5 miles E. of Grayling via M-72 & Burton's Landing Rd. Keystone Landing18 sites, canoeing, fishing, on Au Sable River, canoe access6 miles E. of Grayling via M-72 & Keystone Landing Rd. Canoe Harbor44 sites, canoeing, fishing on Au Sable S. Branch, 10 canoe groupcampsites,Mason Tract Pathway14 miles SE. of Grayling via M-72 White pine Canoe CampCanoe access campsites only, fishing on Au Sable River12 miles E. of Grayling via M-72 & McMaster's Bridge Rd. Rainbow Bend6 sites, canoeing, fishing on Auy Sable River, canoe access, canoe ghroupcamping sites15 miles E. of Grayling via M-72 and McMasters Bridge Rd. Parmalee Bridge7 sites, canoeing, fishing on Au Sable River, canoe access, canoe groupcampsites5 miles N. of Luzerne via Co. Rd. 489 Mio Pond24 sites, canoeing, swimming, fishing on Au Sable River, canoe access,canoegroup campsites3 miles NW. of curran via M-65 & Mc Collum Lake Rd. 4 Mile Trail camp50 sites, horse camp on Michigan Shore to Shore Riding- Hiking Trail from I-75 and Four Mile Rd. interchange, E. on Four Mile Rd. 4 miles, turnS. into camp ----------------------------------------------------------------------------[index.html] | Grayling Michigan Home Page | ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://www.grayling-mi.com/camping.htm is maintained by EPCS --------------1B2F521EBC1-- from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Apr 29 14:14:37 1997 Subject: Re: george.barnes@acornbbs.com wrote: Ed Estlow, Bill Fink and anyone else who cares to comment: As Bill knows, I'm an old dirt engineer with minimum exposure tostructural. It's always bothered me that we approach rod design on thebasis of a cantilever when a fly rod in operation is a far cry from astandard cantilever with a fixed end. It's always seemed to me that abetter analogy would be to approach the problem as a wing design, aprocess that is far beyond my capabilities. I'm delighted that someonewith an aerospace background is having a look. As for ferrules, some time ago I think there was some informationcirculated on square nickle silver tubing. I'd taken the same route asBill and simply omitted a ferrule in my quad. When the square tubingappeared, I printed it out with the intention of obtaining some andtrying to solder up some ferrules. As usual my filing system ate theprintout and I now find myself wondering if it was just an overactiveimagination. George BarnesTo George et al,Squaring the tubing is no problem. I've been doing it for two years with excellent results. The problem is getting the round ferrule stock made.A minimum order of the sizes needed would cost from $7 to $8 Thousand;but, would yield one hell of a large quantity. Anyone interested?John from george.barnes@acornbbs.com Tue Apr 29 17:56:03 1997 TAA08979 for rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:01:44 - 0400 Don Burns: Your comment about Admiral Rickover elicited a chuckle. I once spent an hour and a half with him in the back of a limo. We were giving him an award and no one else wanted to risk the trip. I had my plans well laid. Got him talking about building the Nautilus within three hundred yards of the airport and he was sweet as a nut. George Barnes from sats@gte.net Tue Apr 29 18:07:24 1997 Subject: Re: Turning ferrules I asked this once before and got a pretty quite response....if you are turning ferrule stations by hand what are some ways to go about it? All I have heard is to be critical about the amount of material being taken off every corner. That way the ferrule sits straight. Any other tid bits? Take your time. I've over done it a couple of times because I got in toomuchof a hurry. I center mine in a 1/2in PVC pipe, by wrapping it in masking tape, untilthebuild up just fits inside the pipe. I build up a smaller amount on the otherend, but leave enough to push a coupling over it to keep it centered. I leave about half an inch more then my expected depth extending from thepipe. To start I turn it with a file, but when the end is close to round I switchto60 grit sandpaper, and roll the tube with the sand paper held betweenfinger andthumb. After a few turns the section will be scored. I take the scoringoffwith an x-acto knife, then check fit. If the section still wont fit theferruleI repeat the steps. Rotating between the thumb and fingers makes surethat Ikeep even pressure on both sides of the section and keep it "true" to thecenterline. I use the X-acto to make sure I don't have longitudinal bulgesinmy work. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Apr 29 18:21:24 1997 TAA16289 for ; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:21:12 Subject: Two-Bobbin Method To the many anxious rodbuilders awaiting this info (I think there werethree of you): 4/28/97This was first published in PENNSYLVANIA ANGLER in Dec. 1971. In thoseancient days this was a premier flyfishing magazine, regularly publishingworks by Marinaro, Fox and Fink. Today PA. ANGLER covers boating andwalleyefishing. To proceed: Bobbins(much like large fly tying bobbins) are easily made of 7/8 in. dowels orfishing line spools-- with wire cord holders and rubber bands fortensioning.To begin binding, the glued section held together with masking tape, etc.is loosely held on the table with a wood clamp -- free to slide, with about4 inches of the butt end extending off the edge of the table. Now the cords from both bobbins are knotted together - Then holding a bobbin in eachhandthe knot is located on the top and at the end of the protruding bamboo withthe heavy end of the bamboo section pointed at the rodmaker's navel. Thebobbin in the right hand is wound clockwise around the assembly taking aturn so that it hangs down about a half inch past the knot start. The bobbinin the left hand is wound CCW taking a turn in the other direction againprogressing approx 1/2 inch ---. This sequence results in a torquelesswrap-- no twist. After 6 or 8 inches of binding are completed the section can be reversed-- since it is much easier to bind toward rather than away from therodmaker. Binding a section takes 10 minutes tops.That's about it. Just be careful not to develop any twist because if youbind at all tightly it will be hard to remove, and this does bind tightly.Like I said-- KISS--ultimate simplicity. Bill from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 29 18:22:02 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:22:50 EDT Subject: Varnishing Wraps Well I have a question. I was on the phone a while back ordering some ferrules when I realized the gentleman I was talking to sold elephant silk. 3 things: What is so special about it? I ordered a dozen or so spools of colors I was interested in, and I wrapped each on a piece of bamboo and varnished. Well....do people have tips on varnish application to wraps. I mean how many coats do people put on(and the time in between) before they dip a rod? Oh well...I am just trying to pass the time while I wait for the ferrules. About section lengths...I am confused on how you determine section length on a 3 piece rod without the ferrules in hand. I am using the truncated ferrules from Belvoirdale.Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 29 18:30:43 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:31:29 EDT Subject: Lathes I have seen the sherline lathes for metal parts, but I am interested in wood lathe manufactures. I found a used one a little while back but the thing was huge. I just want something that I can turn ferrule stations on and turn seat fillers. Anyone know company names. I saw a lather for $425 roughly, but it did not have a pass through head stock, and the bed was huge. Thanks in advance for the any info. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from whensel@ix.netcom.com Tue Apr 29 18:56:14 1997 ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Amature never has met....... Dear fellow Rod makers,There will always be greater or lessor quality of rods made somtimes even by a single maker. Because a person makes a living at a craft doesnot always mean there is extream quality present. Case in point would be the martial Arts industry that I have been envolved in or no knowledge and dupe the general public. None of these guys felt a consciousness and were professional con men. Eighty percent of the industry mains unfit.What resonates with ones being are the sounds of the plan, the crack of the splitting bamboo and the rhythm of motion that a nice casting bamboo rod vibrates with. Knowing this comes from anothers hand melts away the pain of life and places the maker and the user in a small universe of joy which is often followed by laughter.Even tears can come....it happened when I had my camper door closed on my Cat 6'6" two weeks ago. So even us Amaturs of greater or lessor degrees of skill and knowledge still laugh and cry. The dance with bamboo is lovely. Denver Bill from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 29 20:02:55 1997 Wed, 30 Apr 1997 09:02:41 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lathes On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Jon Lintvet wrote: I have seen the sherline lathes for metal parts, but I am interested in wood lathe manufactures. I found a used one a little while back but the thing was huge. I just want something that I can turn ferrule stations on and turn seat fillers. Anyone know company names. I saw a lather for $425 roughly, but it did not have a pass through head stock, and the bed was huge. Thanks in advance for the any info. Jon, a wood lathe will turn the reel seat fillers ok, but unless it's something special, I think it'll make a mess of the ferrule stations. The lathes realy needs to be running dead slow to turn these or else you'll tear the cane.Sherline lathes are good value. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Apr 29 20:17:47 1997 Subject: Re: Varnishing Wraps MMMMMM..... It can take up to 7 lt coats to sometimes coat the threads. You should beable to apply a second coat after 1 1/2 hours. JB oAt 19:22 29/04/97 +0000, you wrote:Well I have a question. I was on the phone a while back ordering some ferrules when I realized the gentleman I was talking to sold elephant silk. 3 things: What is so special about it? I ordered a dozen or so spools of colors I was interested in, and I wrapped each on a piece of bamboo and varnished. Well....do people have tips on varnish application to wraps. I mean how many coats do people put on(and the time in between) before they dip a rod? Oh well...I am just trying to pass the time while I wait for the ferrules. About section lengths...I am confused on how you determine section length on a 3 piece rod without the ferrules in hand. I am using the truncated ferrules from Belvoirdale.Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Apr 30 06:58:55 1997 Subject: RO>Don Burns: RO>Your comment about Admiral Rickover elicited a chuckle. RO>I once spent an hour and a half with him in the back of a limo. We wereRO>giving him an award and no one else wanted to risk the trip. I had myRO>plans well laid. Got him talking about building the Nautilus withinRO>three hundred yards of the airport and he was sweet as a nut. RO> George Barnes George, There's 100's of stories about the adm. - too bad none are fishingrelated. I don't think he'd be a bamboo rod man. He didn't care a bitabout traditions. Don Burns from bokstrom@axionet.com Wed Apr 30 11:24:25 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design ----------From: george.barnes@acornbbs.com Subject: Date: Tuesday, April 29, 1997 9:39 AM Ed Estlow, Bill Fink and anyone else who cares to comment: As Bill knows, I'm an old dirt engineer with minimum exposure to structural. It's always bothered me that we approach rod design on the basis of a cantilever when a fly rod in operation is a far cry from a standard cantilever with a fixed end. It's always seemed to me that a better analogy would be to approach the problem as a wing design, a process that is far beyond my capabilities. I'm delighted that someone with an aerospace background is having a look. George Barnes Very good point. Interesting, isn't it, that it has taken 20 years for theshortcomings of Mr. G's design method to come into the open, perhaps anindication of the well-deserved respect we all have for him. Bill Fink, inTPF #46, showed that in action, the length of the lever, and therefor thestress, is never constant. That was pointed out to me by an engineer justmonths after the book appeared and several times since by other engineersand is in itself enough to raise doubts. Be assured I don't get any pleasure knocking Mr. Garrison -- I'd be thefirst to nominate him Patron Saint of Bamboo Builders. We owe him atremendous amount for giving of his knowledge and eliminating themystiqueso jealously guarded by many before him. How about Rube Goldberg for Saint #2? John Bokstrom from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Wed Apr 30 14:46:50 1997 PAA12370 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 15:46:34 Subject: Re: spinning rod At 04:22 PM 4/28/97 -0700, Martin Jensen wrote: Pat this attachment is back. It must be something in your signaturefile. Can anyone else open this attachment? It is at the end of Pat'sname. Martin, It's a formatting file being sent by Microsoft mail. It means somethingwhen received by another Microsoft mail program but to the rest of us it'sjust another file to clog up our hard drive. Later,Johnny-------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 30 15:46:19 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-04-30 14:59:09 EDT, you write: I don't think it's taken 20 years for people to realize that Garrisonsstress curve calculations are really simplistic, because even myself,a retreaded geologist, when I was going over and trying to understandGarrison stress curves realized that a lot of the assumptions he wasmaking were simplified. One of the biggest simplified assumptionswas that the end of the lever (rod) was fixed. It is not. The handle isbeing moved and rotated as a cast is being performed, the forceimparted from the line is not at 90 degrees to the rod, and on and on.But, what are we trying to accomplish with stress curves? This is how I look at it. Using his stress curve calculations youcan represent an action in a rod on paper. If you cast that rod anddecide you like it, or don't like it, you then have a basis for designingyour own rod. Using his stress curves you can reproduce the actionof that rod in a different line weight, different length, etc. Whether youlike an action or not is really subjective anyway, so once you identifythe shape of the curve of what you personally call a fast or slow orwhatever action rod, then you can design the type of rod that youwant . Bamboo, since it is a natural fiber, will not respond in theexact same way from culm to culm. It is much better to simplifyand spread your calculations over a broad range than to tryand pin down an exact response to some variable. Darryl Hayashida Darryl Hayashida from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Apr 30 17:19:50 1997 SAA05312 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:21:18-0400 Subject: Re: Turning ferrules George I might add one last thing about fitting ferrules. When I fit themand we are getting close - I notice the black left by the ferrule on the bamboo after fitting. The black shows the "high" edges. I hit these markslightly with a mill bastard file and fit again. I find this gives me a realgood final fit. Regards Chris from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Wed Apr 30 17:26:07 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:26:57 EDT Subject: Sherline Lathes I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathes but I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could get them at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else. I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However, they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Would anyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send for prices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Apr 30 17:32:50 1997 SAA05439 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:34:17-0400 Subject: Re: Varnishing Wraps Jon First depends on the thread size. You prob used either 00 or Asize - usually 3 - 4 light coats will do before dipping. I use a bobkin that I make using the excess rod section I cut offof a rod after glueing and drill a small hole and epoxy a large needle intoit and use it for applying varnish - also head varnish for flies. The onlyrule is not to put too much on - now for the question - how do you know it is too much - look at the bottom side of the wrap and if you see any blob of varnish hanging down - too much and use the bodkin to wickit off until nothing sags.Last question - Good trick is to go to local hardware store andget some wooden dowels 1/8" dia. Use them as surogates to measuresection lengths. Basic formula is rod length plus male ferrule length that penetrates into female ferrule plus and 1/8" or so for the plugs inthe ferrule divided by number of sections. Now using the objective length by above formula mark iton your workbench. Using the dowel and the ferrule(s) you can exactly determine what length you have to cut the rod blank to. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Apr 30 17:35:03 1997 SAA05461 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:36:31-0400 Subject: Re: Lathes Jon I use just a lathe head (pass through that I found real cheap) andput on a 3 jaw head. Do not ever get a lath w/o the pass through - Recordis one of those that doesn't - the Delta do. Mine is an off brand but works fine. Regards Chris from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Apr 30 18:03:23 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Order of events - when to varnish? I could use some help on this topic. Is the right way to varnish the naked rod, then apply rings/silk and lacquer the silk, or is it better to affix the rings to an unvarnished rod and then dip the rod in varnish? If the latter, do you seal the silk before dipping? Thank you for any guidance - I'm approaching my first six strips andlooking forward to the varnishing stage. ThomasP@nacm.com from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Apr 30 18:10:36 1997 TAA05823 for ; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 19:12:04-0400 Subject: Re: Order of events - when to varnish? Thomas The answer is yes. People have done and are doing it both ways - your choice orpreferance. Pros and cons both way. Pick one you feel comfortablewith. Regards Chris from rbrown@infocom.net Wed Apr 30 19:56:17 1997 login1.infocom.net (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA20508 for; Wed, 30 Apr 1997 20:02:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon I'm interested in one of the lathes. I need to look at the cost andshipping. Let me know when you get the info. Rob from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 30 20:02:04 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA19367 Subject: Help To the list, Has anyone heard from Richard Tyree lately? I know he was talking aboutdropping his AOL account. Perhaps I've missed his signature. Sorry abouttaking the bandwidth. Best,Ed Estlow from mrj@seanet.com Wed Apr 30 20:22:41 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA09618 for Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon Lintvet wrote: I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathesbut I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could getthem at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else.I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However,they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Wouldanyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send forprices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman MacleanI would be interested. I haven't really paid much attention to thediscussion on the lathes though. I don't know if I could afford one. ButI'm still interested at this point. from bokstrom@axionet.com Wed Apr 30 21:02:05 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod design Date: Wednesday, April 30, 1997 1:45 PM In a message dated 97-04-30 14:59:09 EDT, you write: shortcomings of Mr. G's design method to come into the open, perhaps anindication of the well-deserved respect we all have for him. Bill Fink,inTPF #46, showed that in action, the length of the lever, and thereforthestress, is never constant. That was pointed out to me by an engineerjustmonths after the book appeared and several times since by otherengineersand is in itself enough to raise doubts. >> I don't think it's taken 20 years for people to realize that Garrisonsstress curve calculations are really simplistic, because even myself,a retreaded geologist, when I was going over and trying to understandGarrison stress curves realized that a lot of the assumptions he wasmaking were simplified. One of the biggest simplified assumptionswas that the end of the lever (rod) was fixed. It is not. The handle isbeing moved and rotated as a cast is being performed, the forceimparted from the line is not at 90 degrees to the rod, and on and on.But, what are we trying to accomplish with stress curves? This is how I look at it. Using his stress curve calculations youcan represent an action in a rod on paper. If you cast that rod anddecide you like it, or don't like it, you then have a basis for designingyour own rod. Using his stress curves you can reproduce the actionof that rod in a different line weight, different length, etc. Whetheryoulike an action or not is really subjective anyway, so once you identifythe shape of the curve of what you personally call a fast or slow orwhatever action rod, then you can design the type of rod that youwant . Bamboo, since it is a natural fiber, will not respond in theexact same way from culm to culm. It is much better to simplifyand spread your calculations over a broad range than to tryand pin down an exact response to some variable. Darryl Hayashida Why use a stress curve to "represent an action in a rod on paper"? Theyaren't needed. It's much easier, simpler and safer to modify the actualtaper than to modify something that is twice removed by a mess ofcalculations. John Bokstrom from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 30 23:14:38 1997 Subject: Camping reservations HartwickPines is an excellent choice - the information number is 517 - 348 - 7068-But to reserve a campsite you need to do it through the state computersystem800 - 5432 - yesI appologize for not knowing more about the workings of our state parksystem here but I've never taken advantage of it. The times I do a tent it'squite a distance from a state park.The upper reaches of the East Branch are close to Hartwick - you needtoventure out Climax Trail - OK you figure it out - a two track road out inthemiddle of a big woods with no one around. Wayne from JHecht9234@aol.com Wed Apr 30 23:28:29 1997 Subject: Lathe speed What speed (rpms) is recommended when using a lathe to turn grips andferrulestations? Thanks in advance.