from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 1 00:06:16 1997 Subject: Re: Leonard blank In a message dated 97-03-31 15:20:46 EST, you write: What I was getting at is that you should not assemble andwiggle the rod before you wrap and coat the thread. Thiswill break loose a tab or two, and then the ferrule has abetter chance of coming loose. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 1 00:15:38 1997 Subject: Re: splitting headaches Splitting the bottom half of a culm is not easy. Ittakes practice. I can split the butt strips down to24, and I rarely have a reject other than imperfectionsin the culm I have to split around. I split the top halfin to 32 strips, but it took a year before I was able to do this. I don't think there is a magic procedure to beable to split like this, you just have to practice. Darryl Hayashida from d-deloach1@ti.com Tue Apr 1 01:01:34 1997 ESMTP id BAA22678 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id BAA25783 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id QLHBAAAH; Tue,1 Apr 1997 01:01:01 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: Re: Cattanach 6' 6" Jon-- look at page 222 and compare it to page 223. Two pages with twodifferent 2-pctapers for a 6'6" 4-weight. The rod I am interested in is the one on the leftside of page 222 (11/64th ferrule). I'm almost positive its a misprint andtherod is a three-weight. I guessing this is so because of the other evennumberedpages in the tapers section-- for 6', 6'3", 7'0", and 7'3", all these are3-weight tapers. So, my question remains, is this 11/64 ferrule 6'6" taper a three- weightornot? ------------------Original text You are looking at a 2pc on the left of the page and a 3pc on the right hand side of the page. That's all. On 31 Mar 97 at 10:28, Don DeLoach wrote: All: I have decided on Wayne's 6'6" 4-weight taper for my first rod. I'd like toknow, though, why he has two 6'6" tapers for 4-weight in the book-- theoneI'mbuilding is the lighter one (butt is .240 I think). Could it be that it isactually a three-weight (typo)? What's the difference between the twotapers.One is stouter than the other--does this just mean its a little faster? Thanks Don DeLoach Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue Apr 1 08:32:15 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA17231 for; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 09:32:13 -0500 Subject: Dip Tubes Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan on using Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Apr 1 09:15:08 1997 Subject: Re: Dip Tubes Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG wrote: Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan onusing Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering I know of no reason why you couldn't use PVC pipe for a dip tube.John from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 09:38:09 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:43:48 EDT Subject: Re: splitting headaches Just so you know...I have problems similar to that. Wayne's book and Garrisons both talk about putting pressure on the side of the strip you want the split to walk back to. I tried but I did not have much luck. I was building a 3pc so I could split some of those wedge shaped sections into two. I think when I split the top section of the culm I will try Garrison's method. P.S. Jon L.- Do you ever take time out to study or go to class? Or doyou get credit for rod building? ;^) I wish...yesterday I got the Versatis sharpening guide and played all night. I think I got thee sharpening thing down pretty well now. The only problem is I have a Professional Speech and Communication exam tomorrow....so obviously...the exam will just have to wait. I am heat treating today damn it. :) Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 09:38:21 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 10:43:59 EDT Subject: Re: Cattanach 6' 6" Oh I see what you are talking about. I would agree it is a misprint. But, that is just me. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Canerods@aol.com Tue Apr 1 10:06:00 1997 Subject: Re: Dip Tubes In a message dated 97-04-01 10:50:33 EST, you write: Subj: Re: Dip TubesDate: 97-04-01 10:50:33 ESTFrom: JCZIMNY@dol.net (John Zimny)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG wrote: Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan onusing Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering I know of no reason why you couldn't use PVC pipe for a dip tube.John I'm building one now out of ABS pipe. I think after a coating of varnishbuilds- up on the inside - they'd all be the same. Don Burns from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 1 11:13:18 1997 Subject: Leonard Rod I was given a rod to work on by an elderly man who suddenly became illandpassed away. The rod is a 3 pc 8 ft Leonard Tornament. It feels like a 5weight. I don't know the model number. The cork grip is somewhat erodedand the female ferrule on the butt needs to be swaged. Some one replacedtheguides with black stainless at one point. A good job , but incorrect. In anycase, I am considering making an offer to the man's family for the rod, butdon't know what is fair. Anybody got a clue? It is probably fishable as is,but really should be completely re-done. -- Tom from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 1 12:01:19 1997 Subject: Leonard Rod RO>I was given a rod to work on by an elderly man who suddenly became illandRO>passed away. The rod is a 3 pc 8 ft Leonard Tornament. It feels like a 5RO>weight. I don't know the model number. The cork grip is somewhaterodedRO>and the female ferrule on the butt needs to be swaged. Some onereplaced thRO>guides with black stainless at one point. A good job , but incorrect. InanyRO>case, I am considering making an offer to the man's family for the rod,butRO>don't know what is fair. Anybody got a clue? It is probably fishable asis,RO>but really should be completely re-done. -- Tom Tom, The last Phil Snyder rod list (Art Warner's section) had: 8' Leonard Tournament (Hunt Model), circa 1930's, (3/2) (1tip 1 3/4"short at tip top but fishable), 4 2/5 oz (actual), DT5 line, crisp medaction, .... orig bag but unorig/ordinary tube. This is one classy rod. (t) VG cond(exception noted) $675 Art # is (310) 430-0183 Hope this helps. Don B. from bokstrom@axionet.com Tue Apr 1 15:35:20 1997 Subject: Re: Dip Tubes ----------From: Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Subject: Dip TubesDate: Tuesday, April 01, 1997 1:32 AM Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan on using Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Nothing wrong with the PVC, but there is the clear possibility that thesolvents in the urethane will soften whatever cement is used for the endcap of your tube. This won't happen immediately and can be avoided by NOTstoring urethane in your dip tube.How do I know this? Learned the hard way -- it ain't easy mopping up aquart of urethane from the bottom of a 30 inch pipe set in the basementfloor. Used copper ever since. John from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 15:46:56 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 16:52:30 EDT Subject: Re: Dip Tubes Just an idea. I was making a soaking tube for strips and came up with this solution. I do not know how permanent it is however. If the tube is going to be resting on the bottom on the floor...try this if you want. I coated the outside of the length of tube with vaseline....heheh...yup that is right...and forced the cap on. As long as the tube is resting on the ground I do not see a problem. However....I don't want to soak up a 6'x2" of water with a shop vac...not to mention varnish. On 1 Apr 97 at 7:12, John Bokstrom wrote: ----------From: Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Subject: Dip TubesDate: Tuesday, April 01, 1997 1:32 AM Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan on using Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Nothing wrong with the PVC, but there is the clear possibility that thesolvents in the urethane will soften whatever cement is used for the endcap of your tube. This won't happen immediately and can be avoided byNOTstoring urethane in your dip tube.How do I know this? Learned the hard way -- it ain't easy mopping up aquart of urethane from the bottom of a 30 inch pipe set in the basementfloor. Used copper ever since. John Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mrj@seanet.com Tue Apr 1 17:14:16 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00689 for Subject: Re: Form working troubles. brian & michelle creek wrote: Paul - Drill a hole in the end of your tap (size isn't critical, just leave agood ring of metal around the outside for strength) and buy an'easy-out' to fit it. You can find them at machinery supply stores orgood hardware stores. These twist into the busted screw, tap, whateverin the opposite twist used to drive them in (usually counterclock-wise). Then carefully, slowly, crank the broken part out, cuss atit, and give it another try.Good luck.Brian Brian and Michelle, FYI There is no possible way you are going to drill out a broken off tapunless it is the softest possible metel (unlikely you will ever find atap this bad) or you take the temper out. Taking the temper out is notpractical as you would most likely warp the forms. from kkimmel@tnc.com Tue Apr 1 17:50:20 1997 nisku.blackgold.ab.ca (8.8.5/8.8.2) with SMTP id QAA02108 for Subject: ARAI Does anyone know anything about ARAI flyrods manufactured inJapan?The one I have is about 45 Years old.Its a 7 1/2' three section I think 6wt.History? Value? Where can I get more info?----------------------------------- -----------------------KEN KIMMELHYDRIL CANADIAN CO., LTD2307 8 ST.NISKU, ALBERTAT9E 7Z3PH. 403 955 2045FAX 403 955 7627 from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Apr 1 18:04:07 1997 20:03:34 -0400 (AST) Subject: Re: Dip Tubes I think the only downside to PVC is the natural tendency to create staticelectricity and draw dust etc. JB At 09:32 01/04/97 +0000, you wrote:Hello, Has anyone come up with a reason why you shouldn't use PVC, I plan on using Pratt & Lambert VARMOR clear urethane? Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Apr 1 18:04:10 1997 20:03:36 -0400 (AST) Subject: Re: Leonard Rod A mint rod would be around 900-1100 (tube & bag), yours is probablyworthforty percent less, just an estimate. JB At 12:12 01/04/97 -0500, you wrote:I was given a rod to work on by an elderly man who suddenly became illandpassed away. The rod is a 3 pc 8 ft Leonard Tornament. It feels like a 5weight. I don't know the model number. The cork grip is somewhaterodedand the female ferrule on the butt needs to be swaged. Some one replacedtheguides with black stainless at one point. A good job , but incorrect. In anycase, I am considering making an offer to the man's family for the rod,butdon't know what is fair. Anybody got a clue? It is probably fishable as is,but really should be completely re-done. -- Tom James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 1 18:07:11 1997 Wed, 2 Apr 1997 08:06:58 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: ARAI On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Ken Kimmel wrote: Does anyone know anything about ARAI flyrods manufactured inJapan?The one I have is about 45 Years old.Its a 7 1/2' three section I think 6wt.History? Value? Where can I get more info?----------------------------------- -----------------------KEN KIMMELHYDRIL CANADIAN CO., LTD2307 8 ST.NISKU, ALBERTAT9E 7Z3PH. 403 955 2045FAX 403 955 7627 I don't know about this specific brand but I was recently talking to a fellow who made rods in his younger days in the UK and went to Japan after WWII and bought some "split" cane rods. He told me they looked split but were only planed from a solid piece. You could tell by looking down the ferrules and seeing if there are splines. Of course not all were like this but it seems they existed. The first cane rod I ever cast was Japaneese and it was so poor a casting device I couldn't believe anybody was bothering with them, I now think this rod may have been one of these.It came in a rather nice looking blue velvet hard case and had all the looks of a good rod until you tried it.I'll say again though that I'm sure these hex shaped solid rods were not the rule. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 1 19:02:55 1997 Subject: Fine Woodworking To all, John Bokstrom was kind enough to let me read an article in the May/June1987issue of fine Woodworking entitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity" whenIwas visiting with him last weekend. The article details testingundertakento determine what finishes are best to protect wood. The article will, I'mafraid, blow a few theories into right field about some of the finishes weuse on cane rods. Does anyone out there in radio land know whether Fine Woodworking has ahomepage or email address where I could get permission to share theinformationthat John had with the rest of us. I would assume that the article iscovered by copyright and I would not want to infringe upon someone'sbusiness. regards, Don from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Apr 1 19:06:48 1997 Subject: Re: Form working troubles. Thanks. I stand corrected. Use easy outs on hardened bolts, didn'tthink taps were that much harder! Brian from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Apr 1 19:21:24 1997 Subject: lost messages I'm setting up my AOL account with an email address just for readingthis list- serv. I'm also still subscribed to the rodbuilders on my CMIXaccount and I've noticed not all messages are arriving on AOL. BesidesAOL being all screwed- up is there any other reasons that this couldhappen? Thank, Don Burns from rickcunn@tenet.edu Tue Apr 1 19:34:54 1997 Subject: Re: Form working troubles. Paul,Just in case you have not gotten the broken tap out by now, let me tell you how I did it just a few weeks ago. This tap was really stuck. I even broke a tap extractor trying to get it out. A machinist friend finally told me how.I took a carbide end mill slightly smaller than the hole and chewed it out.Luckily, I have a small mill in my shop.Good luck,Rick from rfairfie@cisco.com Tue Apr 1 19:39:30 1997 RAA17986 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 17:38:57 - 0800 Subject: Re: Fine Woodworking Fine Woodworking has a home page athttp://www.taunton.com/fw/index.htm. Thereis a link to the current issue of the magazine. There might be somethingon thepage that will point you to where you want to go. Thanks,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Apr 1 17:19:00 1997 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Don Andersen Subject: Fine WoodworkingMime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: dmanders@mail.ccinet.ab.caX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent- Length: 725 To all, John Bokstrom was kind enough to let me read an article in the May/June1987issue of fine Woodworking entitled "Protecting Wood from Humidity"when Iwas visiting with him last weekend. The article details testingundertakento determine what finishes are best to protect wood. The article will,I'mafraid, blow a few theories into right field about some of the finishesweuse on cane rods. Does anyone out there in radio land know whether Fine Woodworking hasa homepage or email address where I could get permission to share theinformationthat John had with the rest of us. I would assume that the article iscovered by copyright and I would not want to infringe upon someone'sbusiness. regards, Don from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 1 20:41:58 1997 Subject: Re: Fine Woodworking Don,I believe it's already been done-I've fogotten who did it but there wasquite a thread on it a few months ago. Hank. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Apr 1 21:47:45 1997 Subject: Re: Filing versus pressing nodes In a message dated 97-03-30 21:37:48 EST, you write: I do a little of both. I'd like to hear from others on the subject. Itseems to me that one needn't worry about the node's power fibers-there'snocontinuity through the node anyway.Hank. Hank - I fabricated a radius board (John Bokstrom, Merrit Lake '94) andwiththe node planed flat on the bottom, file for a minimum of node removal.Then, before pressing the node flat, I releive the bottom with half- roundfile to remove at least as much material as the nodal hump represents onthetop. This allows the strip to flatten without crushing. If there is a dipadjacent the node, I remove it prior to flattening the node. To prevent thenode from popping back out too much, I shim the rind side duringflatteningwith .005 brass stock. Would like to improve the process, though, so anysuggestions would be appreciated.Regards,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Apr 1 21:49:45 1997 Subject: Guides/ferrules Just a note concerning a previous posting about the advisabity of placingguides adjacent to ferrules. Just examined an 8-1/2' Granger Aristocrat3-pcand noticed the mid/tip ferrule has guides abutting the ferrule on eachside.The interval space between those two guides was much less than theintervalseither side of it.Richard Tyree from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Apr 1 21:49:58 1997 Subject: [Fwd: Re: Fine Woodworking] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------28FF43EB6FFA net server is acting up. Sorry if this duplicates. --------------28FF43EB6FFA Subject: Re: Fine Woodworking Don -Let me guess, you can't keep moisture from re-enering wood when largeseaonal variations drive relative humidity way up there. Just like youcan't keep large wood panels from shrinking in the house in winter - sowe let panels in doors float in grooves and install table tops withslots rather than round holes.Finish on wood furniture lets you wipe up spills before the moisturesoaks in - doesn't form a moisture barrier.I haven't seen the article, just reading between the lines of yourposting.Am I warm? Brian --------------28FF43EB6FFA-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 1 22:00:55 1997 Subject: Re:(2)finishes was Woodworking At 21:41 01/04/97 -0500, Hank wrote:Don,I believe it's already been done- I've fogotten who did it but there wasquite a thread on it a few months ago. Hank. Hank, I know its been done [ a finish discussion] - was thinking about what folksare still doing even after the discussion - was first definitive testing I'dseen on the subject. Wished to share it with others if Fine Woodworkingwillallow posting. regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 1 22:10:38 1997 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fine Woodworking] At 22:54 01/04/97 -0500, Brian wrote:Don -Let me guess, you can't keep moisture from re-enering wood when largeseaonal variations drive relative humidity way up there. Just like youcan't keep large wood panels from shrinking in the house in winter - sowe let panels in doors float in grooves and install table tops withslots rather than round holes.Finish on wood furniture lets you wipe up spills before the moisturesoaks in - doesn't form a moisture barrier.I haven't seen the article, just reading between the lines of yourposting.Am I warm? You aren't only warm - you is red hot!!! The best is that some of the finishes that some of the folks are toutingdon't stop water at all. Look good though. Though some are better thanothers. Hope to post the whole thing if OK by fine Woodworking. Been fishin'? Was down in Southern Alberta last week for a couple of days - did OK -landed a bunch of 'bows. Off to the creek tommorrow. Don Brian from mrj@seanet.com Tue Apr 1 22:54:19 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA16164 for Subject: Re: Form working troubles. brian & michelle creek wrote: Thanks. I stand corrected. Use easy outs on hardened bolts, didn'tthink taps were that much harder! Brian Taps are harder then the Hubs of Hell (whatever THAT means! I have triedto drill them out in the past when I got into trouble and all I did wasget into more trouble. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 23:18:33 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:24:13 EDT Subject: Re: Filing versus pressing nodes Could someone explain what a radius board is? What is this whole process? Hank - I fabricated a radius board (John Bokstrom, Merrit Lake '94) andwiththe node planed flat on the bottom, file for a minimum of node removal.Then, before pressing the node flat, I releive the bottom with half- roundfile to remove at least as much material as the nodal hump represents onthetop. This allows the strip to flatten without crushing. If there is a dipadjacent the node, I remove it prior to flattening the node. To preventthenode from popping back out too much, I shim the rind side duringflatteningwith .005 brass stock. Would like to improve the process, though, so anysuggestions would be appreciated.Regards,RTyree Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue Apr 1 23:22:00 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 00:27:45 EDT Subject: Just wanted to run this by bigger minds.... I split the top section of a culm today. As a side note...I think I am getting better at splitting...however I would like to know in more detail techniques for splitting the tip section beyond 24. Ummm back to the point. I am going to build the butt section out of the bottom section of the culm. The mid section will be made out of the top section of the culm. The tip section will be made out of the bottom section of the culm. All this to redress several nodes if possible. Any of the minds out there coming to a stop. If so..please speak up.Till tomorrow...Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from bub@harborside.com Tue Apr 1 23:40:21 1997 VAA29706 for ; Tue, 1 Apr 1997 21:40:14 - Subject: scraper planes does anyboby know where i can get a scraper plane. the stores in my areado not even know what im talking about.thank you for any help you cangive me,Leo in oregon. from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Wed Apr 2 01:22:26 1997 Subject: Orvis winding checks Rodmakers,I am looking for a few (3-4) of the winding checks that Orvis used on their cane rods prior to the eighties. I have several Orvis kit rods that I would like to refinish in the Orvis tradition. Tried the Orvis rodshop, but they no longer have a direct line to the shop. Somebody that doesn't know "diddly squat" answers the phone in VA and says she's never heard of the item. She suggested I could get a printing company that specializes in printing "checks" to print me some, but with out the Orvis logo of course! Would appreciate the help. They were sold in one size only. Raising cane,Ken Smith from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Apr 2 01:39:18 1997 Wed, 2 Apr 1997 15:39:04 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: scraper planes On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Leo Rasch wrote: does anyboby know where i can get a scraper plane. the stores in my areado not even know what im talking about.thank you for any help you cangive me,Leo in oregon. You can deal direct with LN via email. I have a link to them from my home page. They respond to enquirys rapidly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from bub@harborside.com Wed Apr 2 03:27:33 1997 BAA08299 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 01:27:30 - Subject: Re: scraper planes Tony Young wrote: On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Leo Rasch wrote: does anyboby know where i can get a scraper plane. the stores in myareado not even know what im talking about.thank you for any help you cangive me,Leo in oregon. You can deal direct with LN via email. I have a link to them from myhomepage. They respond to enquirys rapidly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/thank you tony I will call today and get sent out. from sleach@plessey.co.za Wed Apr 2 06:00:33 1997 13:57:40 +0200 via smap (V3.1) 2 Apr 97 14:06:28 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: Re:Super Swiss Ferrule Mail them tommorrow - going fishing today. Hope you understand. Hi DonGot your drawings to-day. Thanks a lot. I was interested to see that the tabs are not tapered. Is this normally the case ?? Regards Steve LeachPlessey South Africa LtdP.O.Box 30451Tokai 7966South AfricaTel (021) 710 2460fax (021) 710 2692 from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Apr 2 08:25:23 1997 Subject: Re:Super Swiss Ferrule At 14:06 02/04/97 GMT+2, Steve wrote:Mail them tommorrow - going fishing today. Hope you understand. Hi DonGot your drawings to-day. Thanks a lot. I was interested to see that the tabs are not tapered. Is this normally the case ?? Steve,I don't know if I understand the question. The tabs can be tapered in anarrow shape or thinned out to where they join the cane or both. Both theRodon and Classic ferrules the tabs are not tapered or thinned. If you wishto do them yourself - shouldn't take much. British rods usually havetaperedtabs. You're choice. As far as thinning the cane/ferrule junction, I chuckup the ferrule and place the appropraite sized drill bit into the tail stockchuck. Slidding the drill bit into the ferrule gives enough support to spinthe ferrule @ low speeds and thin the end of the ferrule. Makes a goodtransition from ferrule to cane. Hope this helps. Don Regards Steve LeachPlessey South Africa LtdP.O.Box 30451Tokai 7966South AfricaTel (021) 710 2460fax (021) 710 2692 from patrick.w.coffey@boeing.com Wed Apr 2 09:11:31 1997 SVR4) (1.37.109.16/16.2) id AA254393662; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 07:07:42 -0800 Subject: hide glue Please let me clear up some misconceptions about hide glue and in relations to violins in particular. #1 violins are never steamed apartbecause the moisture screws up both the wood (swelling) and the varnish.Violins are taken apart with thin strips of steel wedged in the glue lines and HOT water. #2 the sound post is put in and adjusted through the sound holes with a sound post setter (tool). #3 the working time of hide glue can be extended by just adding a smidge (technical term) more water. Hide glue is the only reversasble glue there is, you have to plane down to fresh wood to reglue with any other glue but with hide gleu all you have to do is soften the glue with either heat or HOT water and add a drop more glue and clamp away. We bought old contact lense cleaners from starvation army (the type that boiled the lenses) and added litle dimmer swithchs,for the temp control, in the cord put water into it and adjusted it till we found 150 degrees and marked it on the dimmer switch. I know that this sounds like I'm advocating using hide glue but the truth of the matter is that I worked with it on a daily bases for 8 years and in a lot of respects it's as good as or better than the modern glues, with the exception of recorcinol which is the best waterproof wood glue there is imho! from Canerods@aol.com Wed Apr 2 09:26:14 1997 Subject: Re: Orvis winding checks In a message dated 97-04-02 03:37:57 EST, you write: Subj: Orvis winding checksDate: 97-04-02 03:37:57 ESTFrom: kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net (Ken & Kim Smith)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Rodmakers,I am looking for a few (3-4) of the winding checks that Orvis used on their cane rods prior to the eighties. I have several Orvis kit rods that I would like to refinish in the Orvis tradition. Tried the Orvis rodshop, but they no longer have a direct line to the shop. Somebody that doesn't know "diddly squat" answers the phone in VA and says she's never heardof the item. She suggested I could get a printing company that specializes in printing "checks" to print me some, but with out the Orvis logo of course! Would appreciate the help. They were sold in one size only. Raising cane,Ken Smith Ken, I don't know if they have any winding checks, but I'd give Orvis a secondcall. Ask to be transfered to the rod shop. If you've got an Orvis rod, witha S/N, tell them you're trying to find out some information about it. Thisshould get you to the rod department. Then hit this person up with yourwinding check need. Or call and ask for Lononi Synder. I had a replacement rod tube made up forone of my Orvis rods - waited forever. I wrote down Lononi's name duringoneof my "where-is-it-calls". I think she was the person that had theanswers.Or a good place to start - should get you past the "airhead" department. Don B. PS - Do Orvis cane blanks have S/N's? I recently was asked this questionanddidn't know the answer. from Canerods@aol.com Wed Apr 2 09:27:45 1997 Subject: Re: lost messages In a message dated 97-04-01 21:11:41 EST, you write: Subj: lost messagesDate: 97-04-01 21:11:41 ESTFrom: flyfisher@bbs.cmix.comSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I'm setting up my AOL account with an email address just for readingthis list- serv. I'm also still subscribed to the rodbuilders on my CMIXaccount and I've noticed not all messages are arriving on AOL. BesidesAOL being all screwed- up is there any other reasons that this couldhappen? Thank, Don Burns Ask and you shall receive -- this morning the missing rodmaker list- servmessages arrived. AOL must've been overloaded again. Sigh! It would beniceto see the original message before 2 or 3 replies. Sorry for the wasted bandwidth. Don Burns from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Apr 2 10:49:32 1997 Subject: Re: ARAI RO>On Tue, 1 Apr 1997, Ken Kimmel wrote: RO>> Does anyone know anything about ARAI flyrods manufactured inJapanRO>> The one I have is about 45 Years old.RO>> Its a 7 1/2' three section I think 6wt.RO>> History? Value? Where can I get more info?RO>> --- -------------------------------------------------------RO>> KEN KIMMELRO>> HYDRIL CANADIAN CO., LTDRO>> 2307 8 ST.RO>> NISKU, ALBERTARO>> T9E 7Z3RO>> PH. 403 955 2045RO>> FAX 403 955 7627RO>>RO>>RO>I don't know about this specific brand but I was recently talking to aRO>fellow who made rods in his younger days in the UK and went to JapanRO>after WWII and bought some "split" cane rods. He told me they lookedRO>split but were only planed from a solid piece. You could tell by lookingRO>down the ferrules and seeing if there are splines. Of course not allwereRO>like this but it seems they existed. The first cane rod I ever cast wasRO>Japaneese and it was so poor a casting device I couldn't believeanybodyRO>was bothering with them, I now think this rod may have been one ofthese.RO>It came in a rather nice looking blue velvet hard case and had all theRO>looks of a good rod until you tried it.RO>I'll say again though that I'm sure these hex shaped solid rods were notRO>the rule. RO>Tony RO>/***********************************************************************/RO>Tony YoungRO>http://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlRO>The Australian connectionRO>/***********************************************************************/ I don't know anything about your brand rod - I own a "Mayflower" canerod that I bought in Japan back in 1970. Mine's a split cane rod of generally poor quality. Has very cheapchrome- plated brass ferrules and very visible glue lines (it is splitcane). Looks to have been sawn (?), glued and then had the nodes fileddown? It with a wood box with some flies and misc. stuff. This rod also converts to a spinning rod by pulling the grip off thebutt and reversing it and using a spinning tip section. Value is about $25 - $50 unless someone wants to hang it on the wall andis willing to pay more. Please! I didn't know any better at the time - just a dumb (drunk) swabbie onshore leave. At least the japanese peddler used barbless hooks on me. Don Burns from pmartino@fvcc.cc.mt.us Wed Apr 2 10:57:05 1997 JAA12255 for ; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 09:56:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Form working troubles. To all...... Thanks for all the useful suggestions. A local machinist made an attempt with tap extractors. He failed. I will decide which method to try next. Many suggestions sound useful I will try a carbide tip and Dremel. Pretend I am a dentist. If that doesn't work, the punch success/failure.... Thanks again! -Paul(Kalispell, MT) from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Wed Apr 2 11:48:47 1997 with BSMTP id 1975; Wed, 02 Apr 97 12:47:34 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 0380; Wed, 2 Apr1997 12:47:34 -0500Subject: Re: scraper planes Leo, You can order them from Woodcraft or directly from Lie-Nielsen if that is the type you want. Theirnumber is 888 751-2106. I think the model no. is212, but I believe they only have one scraper planeanyway. Good luck, Bob. from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Apr 2 11:54:51 1997 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Fine Woodworking] Don - Wife & Children going to her folks for spring break, leaving Friday. Hope to exercise some steelhead this weekend. Brian from wishbone@headwaters.com Wed Apr 2 13:11:57 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Hello..ReSubscribed Hello All! Some time ago, I unsubscribed from the list, due to other committments, and certainly not because of anything with respect to the RodMakers List. I have re subscribed, and am looking forward to more productive and interesting discussions. I hope that I will be able to offer something usefull on ocassion! Regards,Ian ScottIan H. ScottWishbone Custom Rods2 Henry St., R.R. #1Grand Valley, Ont.L0N 1G0 519-928-2906http://www.absolute- sway.com/wishbone "It is in men as in soils, where sometimes thereis a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."Jonothan Swift IAW from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed Apr 2 13:38:43 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA10541 for; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 14:38:41 -0500 Subject: Differential screws Hello, I'm looking for a source for the screws that Garrison used in his forms. Any help?? ThanksTom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Apr 2 15:55:17 1997 Subject: Re: Differential screws In a message dated 4/2/97 8:55:43 PM, you wrote: Tom - This would be a custom item as far as I know. You would have tohavethem made by a machine shop, or make them yourself if you have access toalathe. They would actually be a simple project. Many of us have come totheconclusion, however, that the two screw Push- Pull mechanism is just asaccurate, and much less tricky to set up. I'd suggest you consider it. - -TomS from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Wed Apr 2 16:20:15 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id QAA01950 for ; Subject: RE: Re: Orvis winding checks Don,I'll try Orvis again, thanks alot. Orvis did apply a serial number to theirblanks, but most of the kit rods I've seen have it missing. I think peoplewere taking it off. I have Orvis catalogs from the 60's and 70's and thephotos of their kit blanks clearly were serial numbered. Unless they justgrabbed some rod blanks for the photo session. Ken Smith from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 2 17:13:49 1997 ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Orvis winding checks kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net wrote: Don,I'll try Orvis again, thanks alot. Orvis did apply a serial number totheirblanks, but most of the kit rods I've seen have it missing. I think peoplewere taking it off. I have Orvis catalogs from the 60's and 70's and thephotos of their kit blanks clearly were serial numbered. Unless they justgrabbed some rod blanks for the photo session. Ken Smith I don't want to throw 'cold water' on this but after multilple attemptsto get through to Orvis -- even having a dealer try -- I gave up. Gloria Jorden even tried. Next step was to get some made at CSE inVermont but he did not seem too interested. Gave up on him after half adozen or so phone calls and no response. I'd also be curious to know if these are available even though it'safter the fact. I did without. FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732- 2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed Apr 2 17:14:37 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA27126 for; Wed, 2 Apr 1997 18:14:32 -0500 Subject: Re: Differential screws Tom S. conclusion, however, that the two screw Push- Pull mechanism is justasaccurate, and much less tricky to set up. I'd suggest you consider it. -- Tom I agree, my forms have push me pull me, I'm looking for them here at work. They would be for a laser alignment for patient positioning during radiotherapy, the alignment is tricky and precise ( from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Apr 2 17:39:27 1997 Subject: Re: Orvis winding checks RO>kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net wrote:RO>>RO>> Don,RO>> I'll try Orvis again, thanks alot. Orvis did apply a serial number toRO>> blanks, but most of the kit rods I've seen have it missing. I thinkpeopleRO>>RO>> Ken Smith RO>I don't want to throw 'cold water' on this but after multilple attemptsRO>to get through to Orvis -- even having a dealer try -- I gave up.RO>Gloria Jorden even tried. Next step was to get some made at CSE inRO>Vermont but he did not seem too interested. Gave up on him after halfaRO>dozen or so phone calls and no response. RO>I'd also be curious to know if these are available even though it'sRO>after the fact. I did without. RO> FREDRO>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~RO>FRED BOHLS, CFPRO>Bohls Financial ServicesRO>P. O. Box 3303RO>Camp Hill, PA 17011- 9698RO>Office: (717) 732-2448RO>Fax: (717) 732-2414RO>e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com Ken, Thanks for the feedback on the S/N's. Fred, I've had a rod restored by Orvis (needed tube too) without much trouble- just took 5 months or so. I also ordered a tube and bag for a secondrod and again tooks months and 2 or 3 attempts to get the order places.Might have been my fault somewhat - I tried to add to the other order.But, in general, if not ordering a catalog item - be prepared to ask tobe be transfered to someone in the rod shop. And then a long wait. The rod work was fine, OBTW. Cheap too. Don Burns from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 2 17:52:50 1997 ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Orvis winding checks Fred, I've had a rod restored by Orvis (needed tube too) without much trouble- just took 5 months or so. I also ordered a tube and bag for a secondrod and again tooks months and 2 or 3 attempts to get the order places.Might have been my fault somewhat - I tried to add to the other order.But, in general, if not ordering a catalog item - be prepared to ask tobe be transfered to someone in the rod shop. And then a long wait. The rod work was fine, OBTW. Cheap too. Don Burns -- Been There -- Done That ..... Supposedly I was talking with the 'head man' in the rod shop. All ofus, Gloria Jorden, the dealer from Yellow Breeches outfitters who wasther in person, and myself were told that they were not available --PERIOD. Was most disappointed but this was after 3-4 months of effort. Maube ifI were to have paid them to do the work rather than do it myself I'd ofhad better results. FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732- 2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:02:36 1997 Subject: Re: Scraping.... Jon -A few comments that might help -1) The blade must be square in the plane - the point of the blade mustalign with the sole. Early on I discovered tat I had a tendency to rock theplane as I moved it forward. To help stablize the plane I started to touchmyfingers on the forms using a loose grip on the plane itself. Then to seevisually if the plane was aligned with the forms properly I placed a mirrorat the end of the workbench and adjusted it so I could watch the planeduringthe pass - learning the location of my fingers on the forms as a guideline.2) You will rock the plane and you will nick the forms with the plane -infact the metal of the forms may plane easier than the bamboo. A lightfiling with correct the forms - a sharpening will correct the blade. As youbecome more familiar with planing the nicks become fewer and fewer.3) even with the scraper headed in the right direction you will need tokeep it clean of shavings. Any shaving can wrap around the edge of thebladewhich will insulate the blade from cutting.4) Keep the froms clean of shavings and debris - anything under thestrips will elevate them up and there is a chance that you will cut themundersize. keep the v clean.5) The inter nodal sweeps will relax during heat treating or neutralizewhen glued (with the 2x2x2 staggering). The more material removed thelessresistant the sweeps become. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:03:03 1997 Subject: 6' 6" - OOPs Yes - there is a mistake - the taper on page 222 IS a 3 weight (tipfactor 1.536531) and the taper on page 223 IS a 4 weight (tip factor1.705867) - the action is a Garrisonish that I helped Wes Cooper create -RonBarch has one that I made for him. FYI - Ron's rod is the only example of ablonde rod I made outside of my collection. The concept for the rod was tocreate a midge rod with a little more speed than the #193. Caught in the Act Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:04:00 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` Jon -As you can see - there are differing viewpoints - from the sound of ityou are not getting the node warm enough before pressing. The heat gunshouldbe set on speed #2 or high heat and when vised the node should displaceenough so that the bamboo conforms to the vise jaws their entire length. Ilost your phone number at the dorm please e-mail off the list?? John Z -We talked about this at Somerset - how many rods are you going tomakenext years???? Way - Way too much time spent around those VOCs in thebasement. Perhaps us node lovers should have a support group - MEN(MakersEuphoric of Nodes). We could use the catch phrase -"Pressed Is Pretty" -Your turn Chris ! Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:04:20 1997 Subject: Split & Vise Three days ago I wrote this to the group and thought that I sent it -well somewhere in oblivion AOL did it to me again The proper splitting of the culm and the viseing of the nodes go handin hand. So a review.Over the years I have found that the splitting technique I use is easyto dobut hard to explain. The first split,halving the culm, and second split,splitting to sixths, is straight forward. Once completed each sixth of theculm is about 1" in width. The next step is to split each in half again tomake twelve. It is here that I lose folks. The split is initiated with a tapon the froe. But then the procedure changes and the split is finished bytwisting the froe to move the split downward. For safety reverse the froeorplace the backedge into the split. The width and the twist do the splittingso there is no need for the leading sharp edge. And if the froe get awayfromyou it is less destructive to hit your hand with a blunt edge rather thanthesharp edge.Now I have explained that the fat side of those being formed need tobeflexed against the blade to make the split walk to that side. This is whereIloose most. An example of the needed flexing would be to hold a woodendowelrod in both hands with a distance of a foot or so between them. Now twistyour hands so that the thumbs move outward to form a arch in the dowelrod.This is the flex that is needed to move the split toward you. Like wisetwistthe little fingers outward to form an inward arch. This is the motion usedtomove the split away from you. In actuality you are only using one hand todothe flexing when splitting. The other is holding the froe and remainsstationary to force the pieces to flex.This technique is used to split from 6 - 12 and from 12 - 24 pieces.Needless to say the second splitting, from 12 - 24, becomes easier to flexdue to the reduction in size. Done successfully you will end up with stripsthat are uniform in size, about 1/4" throughout their length.The key element of the above splitting is that each will require aboutthesame omount of heat when softening them to flatten the nodes. The morevariation the less successful you will be at flattening the nodes. John Z - As you and Chris were discussing this issue the other night -Chris was suggesting support groups I came up with a catchy one tosupportour side of the issue - - MEN - (Makers Euphoric of Nodes). Hope You likeit Chris Wayne It seems that I'm caught in communication HELL here with AOL. I'dswitchbut too many know the address. from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Apr 2 18:04:53 1997 Subject: Re: varnish Mark -I hope that other will reply as well - but I will strongly recommendthat you use either a poly or spar varnish. A tung oil finish even theformby's with a little varnish added is more work to layer it up enough.Painter's Supply ( Grand Rapids) can UPS - the good stuff - either (77-5)poly or (77-10) spar. A quart will cost about $15 delivered / think of it asa $15 gamble. Just try it on a 1/4" maple dowel and see what you think.Youremind me of Carlos - for over a year he complained of his finish and thenIfinally sent him a quart - of the good stuff - After that he quitcomplaining. Or if you like I have a whole shelf of finishes that you can tryone by one. I hope that others are following this series of posts - our nature is tothink that a dipping system is just one more thing - you know a thing thattakes time and is just another hassle to set up and use. Do us a favor andtry it and report back once you have the finish on the rod - let us know ifit was worth the hassle??? Wayne from david_j_rogers@ccm2.hf.intel.com Wed Apr 2 19:43:29 1997 mailbag.jf.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA26165 for Subject: Herter's book Does anyone know where I can get a copy of George Leonard Herter's"Professional Split-Bamboo rod Building Manual and Manufacturer'sGuide?" Please advise,David Rogers from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Apr 2 20:16:26 1997 Subject: Re: Differential screws In a message dated 97-04-02 18:02:48 EST, you write: Tom - This would be a custom item as far as I know. You would have tohavethem made by a machine shop, or make them yourself if you have accessto alathe. They would actually be a simple project. Many of us have come totheconclusion, however, that the two screw Push- Pull mechanism is just asaccurate, and much less tricky to set up. I'd suggest you consider it. - -TomS Tom - Of interest to me is how Bill Waara approached the subject. Heinformed me that his forms have push/pull screws, with one inside theother.Not sure, but probably the pull inside the push. Ingenious, as is a numberof his innovations, such as splicing block, v-block, fluted hollower, etc.RTyree from bokstrom@axionet.com Wed Apr 2 20:36:48 1997 Subject: Re: Herter's book ----------From: David J Rogers Subject: Herter's bookDate: Wednesday, April 02, 1997 5:43 PM Does anyone know where I can get a copy of George Leonard Herter's"Professional Split-Bamboo rod Building Manual and Manufacturer'sGuide?" Please advise,David Rogers I have a copy and am willing to sell. What would be a fair price?John Bokstrom from Canerods@aol.com Wed Apr 2 21:50:28 1997 Subject: Re: Hello..ReSubscribed Welcome back. Don B. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Apr 2 22:40:31 1997 Subject: Re: Differential screws Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG wrote: Hello, I'm looking for a source for the screws that Garrison used in hisforms. Any help?? ThanksTom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering One has to make them.John from khube@benmeadows.com Thu Apr 3 06:13:00 1997 Subject: Ferrules Has anyone had experience with the NS ferrules from Angler's Workshop ?? Karl Hube from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Thu Apr 3 06:44:52 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA05211 for; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 07:44:49 -0500 Subject: Re: varnish Hello all,Quite a while ago I surveyed this list regarding finishes and methods. Now that i think of it, I never formalized the results. The majority of responses was that dipping was the hot set up. There were a few tung oil, and a couple of brushers. I whipped up my dip tank this past weekend. I used 1 1/2" PVC, takes two quarts to fill, and I'm using P&L VARMOR. I have an old motor out of the linear accelerator that raises the rod at about 4 sec/inch. The last couple of nights I've been dipping two of my blanks and a couple of old project rods. It works great, wouldn't try finishing any other way. Smooth finish with almost no effort.Things I would do different, I'd probably go a little bigger than 1 1/2 PVC. I chose it because 2 quarts is cheaper than 1 gallon. But after dipping a bunch of rods, I now have to go buy more. At $13 per quart and $39 per gallon, it seems I didn't save any money. If you are going to more than one rod, dipping is the way to go, IMHO. Just my $0.02. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Apr 3 07:24:30 1997 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: varnish Because of height limitations in my workshop, dipping won't work for meright now. The method I used was where you take a short 2 inch diametertube, cover the bottom with the finger of a latex glove, poke a very smallhole in the middle of the latex. Then with the rod suspended, slide thetube up to the top of the rod, fill almost to the top with varnish, andthen slowly slide the tube back down the rod. The rod gets coated withvarnish similar to dipping. My results turned out pretty good. I had trouble getting the right speedto move the tube down the rod so I would eliminate drips or runs. Can't remember if I saw this method discussed previously on this list or in thePlaning Form.. (the old mind is slipping..) -Jerryballard@zen.wes.army.mil from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Apr 3 07:45:30 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrules Karl Hube wrote: Has anyone had experience with the NS ferrules from Angler's Workshop?? Karl Hube They're Baily Woods' ferrules.John from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Thu Apr 3 07:55:21 1997 GAA15627; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 06:55:16 -0700 Subject: Re: Ferrules Has anyone had experience with the NS ferrules from Angler's Workshop?? Karl Hube Karl, I have been using their ferules from the start (only on 4th rod) and theyseem fine to me. But take this for what it's worth since I am new and donot have anything to compare them with. If any one has a more informedanswer on these ferules I would also appreciate it. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Apr 3 08:07:56 1997 Subject: Binding thread Someone was asking a few weeks ago about alternatives in binding thread.Ijust got some interesting stuff from American Science and Surplus(847-982-0870). It is suture cotton thread, size 1. ( stock #3985 ). Itcomes on 100 yard rolls, 2 dollars for two, $1.50 if you buy over ten. Theyhave about 150 spools left. The stuff is government surplus and appears tobewell made. It has a very smooth finish and is very strong for cotton. Itclaims to be uncoated and not sterilized. I wonder when was the last timecotton was used for sutures? -- Tom from DANNUGENT@aol.com Thu Apr 3 08:21:28 1997 Subject: Re: Form working troubles. PAULSave yourself alot of trouble use the punch and if that makes the hole tobigthen you will have to drill and tap on the other half of the form.If you don't whant to do that i can EDM it out for you for $5 OK.I had to say $5 because if i did it for free you know i would not rest. DAN from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Apr 3 09:06:32 1997 Subject: Re: varnish Tom seez... Quite a while ago I surveyed this list regarding finishes and methods. Now that i think of it, I never formalized the results. The majority of responses was that dipping was the hot set up. There were a few tung oil, and a couple of brushers. I whipped up my dip tank this past weekend. I used 1 1/2" PVC, takes two quarts to fill, and I'm using P&L VARMOR. I have an old motor out of the linear accelerator that raises the rod...^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Wow, that must make for a pretty fast rod!!! :-) Mike - a little slow - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Apr 3 09:12:55 1997 SVR4) PST Subject: Hollow rod patents Does anyone have copies of the Stoner (#2,537,488) and Powell(#1,932,986) patents on hollow rods? If so, could you fax to me at (619) 687 8135? Many thanks. Thomas PindelskiThomasP@nacm.com from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Thu Apr 3 09:23:46 1997 Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 09:24:30 -0600 Subject: RE: Hollow rod patents 4.0.994.63 Tom,I have them.Our Fax machine sucks. I will mail them to youtomorrow if you can wait.I will need your address too. Olaf Borge, Systems Programmer/Basic SystemsCNO/AISSUniversity of Illinois728 West Roosevelt RoadChicago, Illinois 60607-7007Phone: (312)996-5212 INTERNET: oborge@uic.edu ----------From: Thomas Pindelski[SMTP:ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com]Sent: Thursday, April 03, 1997 9:09 AM Subject: Hollow rod patents Does anyone have copies of the Stoner (#2,537,488) and Powell(#1,932,986) patents on hollow rods? If so, could you fax to me at (619) 687 8135? Many thanks. Thomas PindelskiThomasP@nacm.com from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Thu Apr 3 10:51:10 1997 Subject: Orvis winding checks Looking for Orvis winding checks used on Orvis cane rods till mid 80's. Need at least 3. I am restoring some Orvis kit rods in the Orvis tradition. Would appreciate anybodies help. Orvis no longer carries this item. from m.boretti@agonet.it Thu Apr 3 11:43:04 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA19884 for; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:46:18 -0100 Please send me the method for re-subscribe to the list.Sincerely,Marco Boretti. P.S. Please the correct E-mail address from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 3 14:27:56 1997 Subject: Re: Filing versus pressing nodes Richard,I ,too, file the pith side so the node and rest of strip are the sameprofile-I'll have to try the shim bit.Thanks,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 3 14:28:07 1997 Subject: Re: Re:(2)finishes was Woodworking Don,I believe it's already been posted before Fine Woodworking publishedit- the archives should have it.Hank. from tball@sunny.ncmc.cc.mi.us Thu Apr 3 14:31:25 1997 sunny.ncmc.cc.mi.us (8.7.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00613 for Subject: Re: Cork rings without holes Frank Stetzer wrote: Does anyone know a source for cork rings without the centerbored hole? I want to experiment with some non-round gripshapes.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899.Frank, you may want to try the C & D Trading Inc. out of Minnesota.Their Email address is ckishish@isd.net Good luck Tom B.- - [Dial-In Configuration]SiteName=ISP NameName=Password=InternationalNumber=falsePhone= [IP]DNSAddress=0.0.0.0Enabled=YesIPAddress=0.0.0.0DomainName=DNSAddress2=0.0.0.0 [NetBEUI]Enabled=No [IPX]Enabled=No [Security]SecurityDevice=NoSecurityEcho=No [Services]SMTP_Server=NNTP_Server=POP_Server= [Script]ScriptEnabled=NoScriptTerminal=NoScriptFileName=ISP.SCPScriptRecord=NoScriptRecordTimeout=30 from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Thu Apr 3 14:38:17 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA18977 for ; Subject: RE: Orvis winding checks Guys,Orvis still has the original winding checks on hand that was used ontheir cane rods! They come in NS and aluminum and are in various sizes per.xxx. Talked to Pat Nuener and rod shop. NS are $10.50 per item, Pat ischecking on aluminum price. Thanks for the prompting to "crack" the Orvistelephone answering wall.2nd question. I hear that Gloria Jordan is making the original Wes Jordanreel seats. Are these the same as on the early Orvis canes?What is the basic price for the seat with walnut insert and does it includethe cork ring check? Also for anyone who cares, REC makes the tapered cigar grip that wasused on so many early orvis canes. They call it the "standard" and comesin several lengths. I've ordered 2 in the past and they matched the originalgrips on my rods down to the tee. Raising cane,Ken Smith from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Thu Apr 3 14:40:43 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id OAA19220 for ; Subject: RE: Re: Cork rings without holes Try looking at internet page www.isd.net/ckishish. They are in Minnesotaand are a source of high quality (AAAAA, Flor) cork. Raising caneKen from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Apr 3 14:46:43 1997 Subject: Re: Herter's book In a message dated 97-04-02 21:05:23 EST, you write: Does anyone know where I can get a copy of George Leonard Herter's"Professional Split-Bamboo rod Building Manual and Manufacturer'sGuide?" David - Try The Anglers Art, POBox 148, Plainfield, PA 17081 - Phone800- 848-1020, Fax 717-243-8603. If they do not have it, they will putiton their want list and eventually come across one for you. Note: do notgettoo hung up on the title. My copy has a totally different title, tho most ofthe book is devoted to rodmaking, the majority of which is bamboo. Has aninteresting section of tapers.Regards and good luck,RTyree from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Thu Apr 3 15:18:48 1997 QAA04919 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 16:18:40 - Subject: Re: Herter's book In a message dated 97-04-02 21:05:23 EST, you write: Does anyone know where I can get a copy of George Leonard Herter's"Professional Split-Bamboo rod Building Manual and Manufacturer'sGuide?" You might try: Alan Wigton, Little Journeys Bookshop, 376 Park Ave. W., , Mansfield, OH44906 Tel: (419) 522-2389 Fax: (419) 522-6019 Email Address:alanewig@richnet.net They did have a copy but it seemed a little pricey to me @$100. Later,Johnny-------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from tlz112@psu.edu Thu Apr 3 17:55:13 1997 f01n05.cac.psu.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA73078 for; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:55:24 -0500 ARCHIVES from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 3 17:55:16 1997 TAA11703 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 19:03:07 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` Jon -As you can see - there are differing viewpoints - from the sound of ityou are not getting the node warm enough before pressing. The heat gunshouldbe set on speed #2 or high heat and when vised the node should displaceenough so that the bamboo conforms to the vise jaws their entire length.Ilost your phone number at the dorm please e-mail off the list?? John Z -We talked about this at Somerset - how many rods are you going tomakenext years???? Way - Way too much time spent around those VOCs in thebasement. Perhaps us node lovers should have a support group - MEN(MakersEuphoric of Nodes). We could use the catch phrase -"Pressed Is Pretty" -Your turn Chris ! Wayne Wayne I think nodes speak for themselves. But I really think youguys should have a national day of attonement - Where you go around saying "Forgive me Lord for I have sinned and now I mustdo nodes!" Regards Chris from tlz112@psu.edu Thu Apr 3 17:59:29 1997 f01n05.cac.psu.edu (8.7.6/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA284422 for; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 18:59:41 -0500 How do I get a list of the topics being talked about or into the archives? from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 3 18:12:33 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` In a message dated 97-04-03 19:02:39 EST, you write: I don't know what the big deal about nodes is.Sure they are a little bit harder to plane and keep fromchipping, but they are not that bad. I think cutting themout and splicing is a lot more work than planing withthem in. Am I missing something here? Darryl Hayashida from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Apr 3 18:13:35 1997 Subject: Re: 6' 6" - OOPs Wayne, Which rods? The 2 piece or the 3 piece on pages 222 and 223? I do notremember which was which. Thanks, Mark ColeLeadville, COHouston, TX from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 3 18:15:42 1997 Subject: Taper Design In a previous post I mentioned in passing aboutthe roll casting "hinge" that I first heard about fromWayne Cattanach. I don't recall if it's in his book. I have received a few inquiries by private email, so I thought I might post my answer to the list. The hinge is a small area of increased flexiblity(higher stress for the stress curve guys) about18 to 20 inches in front of the handle. What this does is gives the line a lift up off the water rightat the initial stroke of the rod when doing a rollcast. The hinge works! I recently finished a6' 2" 3 wt. 3 piece which I didn't build in a hinge,and this rod doesn't roll cast worth beans. Therod previous to this one was a 7' 0" 4 wt 2 pieceand since I was following Wayne's taper, the hingewas in there. This rod roll casts effortlessly. Another design idea I was trying with the 6' 2"was putting the highest stress as close to the tipas possible to see if the rod wold throw a tighterloop. I can report that this idea works also. It'svery hard not to cast with a tight loop with thisrod. This would be bad if you were trying to makea wet fly or nymphing rod and you needed to useweight on your line, and you need to cast a widerloop. If you were wondering why I would make a 6' 2"rod a three piece, it's because each section is25 inches long and the rod fits in a backpack. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 3 18:41:51 1997 Fri, 4 Apr 1997 08:41:33 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Cork rings without holes On Thu, 3 Apr 1997 kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net wrote: Try looking at internet page www.isd.net/ckishish. They are inMinnesota and are a source of high quality (AAAAA, Flor) cork. Raising caneKen I've got some cork and handles from C&D Trading and it all seems prettygood.They also have a lot of recipies for the ones you don't toss back. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 3 19:14:01 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` To nodes & nodeless ones,I've done it both ways and figure it's 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen the other,except the nodeless of the same taper seems stiffer.Hank. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 3 20:04:43 1997 VAA13403 for ; Thu, 3 Apr 1997 21:12:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` In a message dated 97-04-03 19:02:39 EST, you write: guys should have a national day of attonement - Where you go around saying "Forgive me Lord for I have sinned and now I mustdo nodes!" I don't know what the big deal about nodes is.Sure they are a little bit harder to plane and keep fromchipping, but they are not that bad. I think cutting themout and splicing is a lot more work than planing withthem in. Am I missing something here? Darryl Hayashida Darryl Yes you are - I know that you think it is morework but actually there is less work in the long run - ponder that Regards Chris from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Apr 3 21:19:47 1997 Subject: Re: varnish You have a cyclotron motor in your dip finisher?? Way Cool!! Brian from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 3 22:30:44 1997 Subject: Re: 6' 6" - OOPs Mark -The layout of the tapers in the book is this - each page represents a rod(line weight and character) the 2 piece and 3 piece listing are of the samedesign only a different number of pieces Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 3 22:31:08 1997 Subject: A GrayRock Moment Over the past couple of weeks I have gotten several phone callsconcerning Grayrock 97. The what, where, and when of it. choice - 517 - 348 - 5405. There are supposted to be special rates for thegroup.The Official OverviewThursday night (6-19) - an arrivial picnic at Whispering Pines - CountyRoad #612 - On the Manistee River. Picnic social - start of river boatfloatinto the night as required. In case of rain the picnic will be at TheClubhouse.Friday (9 - 5) presentations - discussion groups - demos - rod casting.Attendee responsable for their own lunch - Spikes? (6 - ?) pizza party atTheClubhouse - social - beer tasting - fly tying demos - whatever the groupwants.Saturday (9 - 4) more of the same. *Notice - registration fee for the above (including food for picnic & pizza)is $20 - You need not pre register but it will make it easier if there is an Ave -Casnovia, MI 49318 - - Questions Call 616 - 675 - 5894 (evenings - Ihave areal job) Saturday (5- 12?) The Trout Bum BBQ - this is a group social event - therodmakers and the Compuserve FF group - Lots of food and social - PlusSporting Flies and other surprise events. Steve Southard and Vic Edwardsareco - hosts. The admission isn't set yet - but is due out soon. The cost forthis event is above that of the registration for the get together. OK - The agenda is up to those that are attending. In the past years thepresentations have run the gambit. The ratio of new comers to experiencedmakers is about 30/70. Many should be attending for the first time and arelooking for entry level info..... VOLUNTEERS NEEDED. I will be bringing a complete set of tools - including diamond sharpeningstones. Chris B - nodeless tools & constructionBill W - Tooling and historyRichard T - Hex cork check tool useSharp - o - rama Several stations**** for this - if anyone uses a different technique can youbring the needed equipment and suchFinish Round Table Discussion - Perhaps Reed can Chair the panelHands on stations -Harold & Eileen DemarestLuis Marden ??The reason for the ?? - Luis is having a bit of health concerns andas of last conversation he didn't know if he is going to make it - BelievemeI am going to do my best to encourage Luis to attend.If anyone has any comments or ideas on either what they want to see or doplease contact me here - ***** remember the success of any event likethis isthe willingness of those that attend. Please e-mail ****THEN*****Several of the group are coming early to do some fishing or what ever.The early start is the weekend of Father's day. For those that haven't beento a get together before PLEASE feel welcome to come early if you like.Fromwhat I've seen is that the group is friendly to newcomers. As I mentionedearlier I will have a complete set of tools and some scrap culms and therewill be time to do hands on things. BAMBOOIf there is interest Harold and Eileen will have Bamboo available - splita bundle or what ever. Let me know the Interest. Well it closer than you thinkWayne from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 4 00:26:17 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` In a message dated 97-04-03 20:42:25 EST, you write: Well, now I am confused. A node is stiffer than the nodelesssections between. When I bend a strip the nodes stay straighterthan the sections between the nodes. How can cutting out thestiffer sections of a strip make it stiffer? Unless the splice isactually stiffer than a node.... Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 4 00:30:42 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` In a message dated 97-04-03 21:29:56 EST, you write: I can't say for sure since I never made a nodeless rod, but Ithink I will stick to what works for me. Darryl Hayashida from mrj@seanet.com Fri Apr 4 00:51:16 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA21603 for Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-04-03 20:42:25 EST, you write: I've done it both ways and figure it's 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen the other,except the nodeless of the same taper seems stiffer.Hank. Well, now I am confused. A node is stiffer than the nodelesssections between. When I bend a strip the nodes stay straighterthan the sections between the nodes. How can cutting out thestiffer sections of a strip make it stiffer? Unless the splice isactually stiffer than a node.... Darryl HayashidaDarryl, Maybe it is that the node is denser than the regular fibers.that would make it heavier and add more mass to the rod. removing thiswould probably lighten the rod a bit. If the rod was a little lighter I think. This is conjecture and speculation on my part here, but I likeit. from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Fri Apr 4 02:31:36 1997 (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) KAA20345; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 10:31:32 +0200 09:31:31 +0100 Subject: Shops in St. Francisco Hello I will be, for business purpose, one week in Silicon Valley ( St. Francisco )Can you please recommend me some good FF shops and why not a goodplace to flyfishing ;-) Thanks Angel -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Fri Apr 4 06:30:34 1997 ix10.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Fly Fishing List Serve Subject: HARRISBURG FLY FISHERS --Day in Carlisle Just a remindeer that tomorrow, April 5, is the 50th anniversery meetingof the Harrisburg Fly Fishers. Big day planned at the EmbersConvenbtion Center in Carlisle. It will start with Leon Chandler'spresentation @ 10:00am. Then at 11:00am there will be fly tyers,seminars, speakers, demonstrations, rod builders - both cane and'plastic', authors, etc. until 5:00pm. Lots of things happening -- ALLAT NO COST. The whole convention center is occupied. Stag cash bar anddinner @ 5:00pm until??? Should be quite a day. It is also being coordinated with Pennsylvania State Councel of TUmeeting that day at the Embers. FRED ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732- 2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Apr 4 07:30:20 1997 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-04-03 20:42:25 EST, you write: I've done it both ways and figure it's 6 of 1 and 1/2 dozen the other,except the nodeless of the same taper seems stiffer.Hank. Well, now I am confused. A node is stiffer than the nodelesssections between. When I bend a strip the nodes stay straighterthan the sections between the nodes. How can cutting out thestiffer sections of a strip make it stiffer? Unless the splice isactually stiffer than a node.... Darryl Hayashida DarrylI have often thought that. Could it not be the geometry of the splices that cahanges the apparent stiffness of the rod?John from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 4 08:06:33 1997 Subject: nodes vs nodeless I also am mystified as to why a nodeless rod should be stiffer, but I thinkChris has said that in the past, and now Hank. Could the extra glue lines bea factor?-------Tom from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 4 08:26:56 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA22934 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: I also am mystified as to why a nodeless rod should be stiffer, but IthinkChris has said that in the past, and now Hank. Could the extra glue linesbea factor?-------Tom Perhaps the node itself is more flexible than the strip between nodes.Thus, there would be slightly more flexing at a rod station thatcontained a node. Possible? Best regards,Ed Estlow from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 4 09:15:44 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless In a message dated 4/4/97 3:01:08 PM, you wrote: Ed - I can't say for sure, but in general my observations agree withDarryl's. In moderate bend testing the node seems stiffer to me. In anextreme bend, I would expect the node to be brittle and snap first, but Idon't do much destructive testing.-- Tom from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 4 14:56:14 1997 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA17878 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/4/97 3:01:08 PM, you wrote: Thus, there would be slightly more flexing at a rod station thatcontained a node. Possible?>> Ed - I can't say for sure, but in general my observations agree withDarryl's. In moderate bend testing the node seems stiffer to me. In anextreme bend, I would expect the node to be brittle and snap first, but Idon't do much destructive testing.-- Tom Tom, I read Darryl's response AFTER I had sent mine - figured I'd stuck myfoot in my mouth. I'm new to bamboo and was responding in a speculativesense from my knowledge of structural mechanics. You are right on with stiffness implying brittleness, which in turnimplies quicker fracture. And I'm sure none of us want to do too muchdestructive testing! However, one way to quantify, culm by culm, howbamboo would perform would be to make up a test piece, say a foot longand of constant cross section, and put it through a controlled series oftests. Perhaps one could develop a method of predicting how a rod made from that particular culm would perform. The test piece hopefullywouldn't take so much material that a rod couldn't be built from thatculm. Perhaps the extra glue lines, running on the bias in a nodeless rod doincrease stiffness. A few weeks ago I mentioned to someone how much funit would be to instrument a rod with strain gages and read in real timewhat the stresses and strains were in a rod as it was cast. This wouldbe easily done but, to paraphrase from my car racing days, knowledgecosts money son, how much do you want to know? All food for thought. Best regards, Ed Estlow from russett@bcn.net Fri Apr 4 17:48:09 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA01479 for Subject: [Fwd: Fwd: PENPAL virus] tyunker@tahiti.netreach.net, andyf@bcn.net, Cmj75@aol.com,ARTURO1977@aol.com, Wilskart@aol.com,jennifer.s.kapala@cleve.frb.org,grvs07a@prodigy.com, frank@bradick.reno.nv.us,bfrank@alibawal.maxisnet.com.my, foremcd2@juno.com,russett@bcn.net,ssh@prodigy.net, elizabethsmith@unn.unisys.com, count@one.net,cariddi@mv.mv.com, matthewlayman@unn.unisys.com,Matl1Dave@aol.com,RAKESTRAWT@aol.com, RaulRuben@aol.com,jimbenne@eaglequest.com,tomstevens@unn.unisys.com, dozzir@k2.kirtland.cc.mi.usSubject: Fwd: PENPAL virus ---------------------Forwarded message:Subj: Fwd: PENPAL virus Here.---------------------Forwarded message:Subj: Fwd: PENPAL virus ---------------------Forwarded message: Gbpack372@aol.com,QuilterN1@aol.com This information was received this morning from IBM, please share it with anyone that might access the Internet: If anyone receives e-mail entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" please delete it WITHOUT READING IT!! This is a warning for all Internet users - there is a dangerous virus propagating across the Internet through an e-mail message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" > DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS"!! This message appears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are interested in a penpal, but by the time you read the letter, it is too late. The"trojan horse" virus will have already infected the boot sector of > your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is aself-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will > AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone whose e-mail address ispresent in YOUR mailbox! This virus will DESTROY your hard drive, and holds the potential to DESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your IN BOX, and > whose mail is in their in box and so on. If this virus keeps getting passed, it has the potential to do a great deal of damage to computer networks worldwide!!!! Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" AS SOON AS YOU SEE IT! Pass this message along to all of your friends and otherreaders of the newsgroups and mailing lists which you are on so that they are not hurt by this dangerous virus!!!! Please pass this along to everyone you know so this can be stopped. SMTPOriginator: rosevax!frmail.frco.com!DAVIHAI@uunet.uu.net > Dear everyone,I picked this up at work. It's important. Try to remember.Mike from mrj@seanet.com Fri Apr 4 18:32:18 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA14530 for Subject: Re: [Fwd: Fwd: PENPAL virus] Larry & Jane Russett wrote: Subject: Fwd: PENPAL virus From: Vroom222@aol.com tyunker@tahiti.netreach.net, andyf@bcn.net, Cmj75@aol.com,ARTURO1977@aol.com, Wilskart@aol.com,jennifer.s.kapala@cleve.frb.org,grvs07a@prodigy.com, frank@bradick.reno.nv.us,bfrank@alibawal.maxisnet.com.my, foremcd2@juno.com,russett@bcn.net,ssh@prodigy.net, elizabethsmith@unn.unisys.com, count@one.net,cariddi@mv.mv.com, matthewlayman@unn.unisys.com,Matl1Dave@aol.com,RAKESTRAWT@aol.com, RaulRuben@aol.com,jimbenne@eaglequest.com,tomstevens@unn.unisys.com, dozzir@k2.kirtland.cc.mi.us ---------------------Forwarded message:Subj: Fwd: PENPAL virusDate: 97- 04-04 16:51:57 ESTFrom: Maridozi Here.---------------------Forwarded message:Subj: Fwd: PENPAL virusDate: 97-04-04 06:31:33 ESTFrom: Cmj75 ---------------------Forwarded message:From: Mike_Frassetto@mascohq.com (Mike Frassetto) Gbpack372@aol.com,QuilterN1@aol.comDate: 97-04-02 10:11:49 EST This information was received this morning from IBM, please shareitwith anyone that might access the Internet: If anyone receives e-mail entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" pleasedeleteit WITHOUT READING IT!! This is a warning for all Internet users -there is a dangerous virus propagating across the Internet throughane-mail message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" >DO NOT DOWNLOAD ANY MESSAGE ENTITLED "PENPAL GREETINGS"!!Thismessageappears to be a friendly letter asking you if you are interested inapenpal, but by the time you read the letter, it is too late. The"trojan horse" virus will have already infected the boot sector of >your hard drive, destroying all of the data present. It is aself-replicating virus, and once the message is read, it will >AUTOMATICALLY forward itself to anyone whose e-mail address ispresentin YOUR mailbox! This virus will DESTROY your hard drive, and holds the potential toDESTROY the hard drive of anyone whose mail is in your IN BOX, and whose mail is in their in box and so on. If this virus keeps gettingpassed, it has the potential to do a great deal of damage tocomputernetworks worldwide!!!! Please, delete the message entitled "PENPAL GREETINGS!" AS SOONASYOUSEE IT! Pass this message along to all of your friends and otherreaders of the newsgroups and mailing lists which you are on sothatthey are not hurt by this dangerous virus!!!! Please pass this along to everyone you know so this can be stopped. SMTPOriginator: rosevax!frmail.frco.com!DAVIHAI@uunet.uu.net > Dear everyone,I picked this up at work. It's important. Try toremember.MikeThis message is old and it is total Bull Shit. Don't worry about gettingany virus in e-mail. A message won't have a virus. Now an attachment,maybe. But you would not open one of those up unless you knew who it was from right?. This "PenPal Greetings" is a hoax and it shouldn't go anyfurther than it has.There are several good sites to go to inclucing Gov.sites that will explain hoaxes like this. These should be checked outbefore causing undue alarm. from david_j_rogers@ccm2.hf.intel.com Fri Apr 4 18:58:55 1997 mailbag.jf.intel.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id RAA10712 for Subject: Impregnating the finish What is meant by "impregnating" a rod finish? Regards,David Rogers from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Fri Apr 4 19:22:12 1997 Subject: Re: HARRISBURG FLY FISHERS --Day in Carlisle Apr 4, 97 07:28:31 am Fred, if the folks from Cold Springs Angler are there, please say hello from Oregon. They are nice folks. Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Apr 4 20:09:28 1997 ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:17:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodes #$#^@%&%^*^*`` Darryl Stiffer may not be the right word. I find nodeless rod turnout to be smoother yet more powerfull than noded rods. Could thisbe due to more true Power Fibers (Tom S - are you listening). I dono contribute the stiffness to the splice - It is alot less mass thana node consumes - Now you have powerfiber where a node is. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Apr 4 20:10:43 1997 ; Fri, 4 Apr 1997 21:18:48 -0500 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless I also am mystified as to why a nodeless rod should be stiffer, but I thinkChris has said that in the past, and now Hank. Could the extra glue linesbea factor?-------TomTom How much extra glue - A glue line is about .001" not muchlook at a cross section of a node. Regards Chris from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Apr 4 21:20:41 1997 Subject: Tip Breakage The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaksjustbelow the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were olderclassics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up with isthatthe cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of thecasesthe rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted the capwith enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the last incidentthe rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case.This raises the issue of how much extra room there should be in a rodcase.Apparently 3 inches is too much. This much room allows the enclosed rodtobuilt enough kinetic energy to fracture a tip say when a rod tube were tobedropped. Or a rod tube slides into a solid surface when the vehicle inwhichit is carried brakes hard. above thedisassembled length of the stored rod. This is enough room for the excessbagand tie strings. But not enough to allow the rod to accelerate and buildenergy. This dimension was determined by trial and error. Using a 1/8" dowel rod cut to the exact length of a finished rodsection, Ifirst stored the dowel housed in my normally used rod bag and then Islappedthe ends of the case against a solid surface. While I was doing this Ilistened for any tell tale sound of the dowel contacting the end caps.Starting with a longer than needed case I would administer the test andthenrecut the length of the case. Finally I felt comfortable with the 3/4 inch excess dimension.Unfortunatelyonly time will. Food For ThoughtWayne from kksmith@minotafb.ndak.net Fri Apr 4 21:33:21 1997 (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA23629 for ; Subject: RE: Mildrum Guides, bluing chromed guidesDoes anyone know if Mildrum snakes and tip tops are still available, ifso, where? Also I heard that there is a product out that will "blue"chromed guides. I heard this from a rod builder on a chat line but he wouldno divulge the product. Any info would help. Raising cane,Ken from mrj@seanet.com Fri Apr 4 23:08:16 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA20596 for Subject: Re: Tip Breakage WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaksjustbelow the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were olderclassics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up withis thatthe cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of thecasesthe rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted thecapwith enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the last incidentthe rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case.This raises the issue of how much extra room there should be in arod case.Apparently 3 inches is too much. This much room allows the enclosed rodtobuilt enough kinetic energy to fracture a tip say when a rod tube were tobedropped. Or a rod tube slides into a solid surface when the vehicle inwhichit is carried brakes hard. above thedisassembled length of the stored rod. This is enough room for theexcess bagand tie strings. But not enough to allow the rod to accelerate and buildenergy. This dimension was determined by trial and error.Using a 1/8" dowel rod cut to the exact length of a finished rodsection, Ifirst stored the dowel housed in my normally used rod bag and then Islappedthe ends of the case against a solid surface. While I was doing this Ilistened for any tell tale sound of the dowel contacting the end caps.Starting with a longer than needed case I would administer the test andthenrecut the length of the case.Finally I felt comfortable with the 3/4 inch excess dimension.Unfortunatelyonly time will. Food For ThoughtWayne I would tend to agree with you Wayne. In fishing the rod there shouldnever be anymore than a straight pull on the last 1 inch of rod. Itshould not break from fighting fish. I have actually flattened a tip topon a rod because the case was too long and the inner bag not enough. Ithink 3/4 inch is probably just about right. I assume you mean 3/4 inchmaximum. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Apr 4 23:45:39 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 00:51:25 EDT Subject: Re: varnish At the risk of sounding immature....what is a cyclotron? On 3 Apr 97 at 22:25, brian & michelle creek wrote: You have a cyclotron motor in your dip finisher?? Way Cool!! Brian Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri Apr 4 23:45:39 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 00:51:27 EDT Subject: Tip section.... I finished redoing the mid and butt like I said I was. I made the old butt the mid section and the mid section the new butt. Everything worked out fine. I cannot wait to glue a the section up! I am starting to get scared however....the diameter of the mid section is awfully small. I am scared to think what the tip section is going to look like. Till then...Thanks for everyone's help and advice. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mrj@seanet.com Fri Apr 4 23:58:50 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21419 for Subject: Re: varnish Jon Lintvet wrote: At the risk of sounding immature....what is a cyclotron? On 3 Apr 97at 22:25, brian & michelle creek wrote: You have a cyclotron motor in your dip finisher?? Way Cool!! Brian Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean I believe it would be a motor out of a linear accelerator.You know, youcan speed up atoms. I have one out back but it has never broken down soI can't scavage the parts for rod building...yet from SealRite@aol.com Sat Apr 5 07:51:54 1997 Subject: Re: what is an amateur? My dad told me many years ago, it's just as easy to love a rich one. from SealRite@aol.com Sat Apr 5 08:09:16 1997 Subject: Re: THREAD I just use plain old cotton thread from the sewing store. I use it with afour head binder and you would be surprised at the amount of tension youcanget out of it. It heats well. Craig Anderson from bokstrom@axionet.com Sat Apr 5 09:17:31 1997 Subject: Re: Tip Breakage ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: Tip BreakageDate: Friday, April 04, 1997 7:20 PM The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaksjustbelow the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were olderclassics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up withisthatthe cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of thecasesthe rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted thecapwith enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the lastincidentthe rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case.... Try this: use a longer ferrule plug. Combine this with stitching to reducethe inside length of the tip compartment(s) of the rod bag. Then the buttsection with its long plug will absorb any impact and protect the tip John from molly@srv.net Sat Apr 5 09:40:37 1997 (5.65v3.2/1.1.10.5/01Feb97-1147PM) Subject: Re: Binding thread Someone was asking a few weeks ago about alternatives in bindingthread. Ijust got some interesting stuff from American Science and Surplus(847-982-0870). It is suture cotton thread, size 1. ( stock #3985 ). Itcomes on 100 yard rolls, 2 dollars for two, $1.50 if you buy over ten.Theyhave about 150 spools left. The stuff is government surplus and appearsto bewell made. It has a very smooth finish and is very strong for cotton. Itclaims to be uncoated and not sterilized. I wonder when was the lasttimecotton was used for sutures? -- Tom Taxidermy supply companies carry various threads that are excellent forbinding. Van Dykes in Woonsocket, SD is a good source. -Mike B from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sat Apr 5 09:47:39 1997 IAA27345; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 08:47:36 -0700 Subject: Guides I have been using H&H carbide guides and have been questioning weatherthey are worth the extra cost. I thought I would through this out fordisscussion to see what guides others have found best. Does anyone knowif the carbide is truly better or more advertising hype? Also I recentlynoticed Pac Bay has new carbide guides at a much lower price. Has anyonetried them? All coments welcomed. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Apr 5 09:48:53 1997 Subject: Re: Tip section.... In a message dated 97-04-05 01:47:40 EST, you write: Same thing I went through.... The tip section will amaze you.On the 2 wt. I'm working on now the tips of the splines arealmost transparent. Darryl Hayashida from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Apr 5 09:49:58 1997 Subject: Re: varnish A type of linear particle accelerator. An "atom smasher," if youwill. IU has one, all the physics geeks hung out there. The directorwas THE highest paid of IU's faculty at the time. Its good to be ageek, sometimes! Brian from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Apr 5 11:53:26 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless In a message dated 4/5/97 2:39:45 AM, you wrote: Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodes withsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod. Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom from khube@benmeadows.com Sat Apr 5 13:24:01 1997 Subject: Re: Tip Breakage At 10:20 PM 4/4/97 -0500, you wrote:The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaksjustbelow the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were olderclassics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up withis thatthe cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of thecasesthe rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted the capwith enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the last incidentthe rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case.This raises the issue of how much extra room there should be in arod case.Apparently 3 inches is too much. This much room allows the enclosed rodtobuilt enough kinetic energy to fracture a tip say when a rod tube were tobedropped. Or a rod tube slides into a solid surface when the vehicle inwhichit is carried brakes hard. above thedisassembled length of the stored rod. This is enough room for the excessbagand tie strings. But not enough to allow the rod to accelerate and buildenergy. This dimension was determined by trial and error. Using a 1/8" dowel rod cut to the exact length of a finished rodsection, Ifirst stored the dowel housed in my normally used rod bag and then Islappedthe ends of the case against a solid surface. While I was doing this Ilistened for any tell tale sound of the dowel contacting the end caps.Starting with a longer than needed case I would administer the test andthenrecut the length of the case. Finally I felt comfortable with the 3/4 inch excess dimension.Unfortunatelyonly time will. Food For ThoughtWayne========================================================================== so there is no motion in the case. Seems to work. Like all things in life,you have to think about what you're doing so the foam doesn't get stuffeddown on the rod tip and actually CAUSE a problem. Karl Hube from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Sat Apr 5 14:11:12 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 15:17:01 EDT Subject: Re: varnish I believe it would be a motor out of a linear accelerator.You know, youcan speed up atoms. I have one out back but it has never broken down soI can't scavage the parts for rod building...yet I see..... Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mrj@seanet.com Sat Apr 5 16:12:38 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA02670 for Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/5/97 2:39:45 AM, you wrote: look at a cross section of a node. Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodeswithsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod.Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom I am surprised that no one has mentioned my theory that the differencein action may be attributed to the difference in mass, or weight. Evento shoot it down. I would think that there would be a significantdifference. Easily enough to change the action noticeably. from BamboRods@aol.com Sat Apr 5 17:40:37 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Tom, The only time I use nodeless is for rods with sections that will not fitintomy 5' oven. Nodeless is the best way to make 1 piece rods 5' and up. Assomeone stated I also believe the work time is about equa with nodes ornodeless . Never did notice that nodeless is stiffer than nodes. How didyou and Bill bake that 1 piece rod you made for donation?Jon Parker from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 5 18:06:33 1997 TAA02588 for ; Sat, 5 Apr 1997 19:14:49 -0500 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless In a message dated 4/5/97 2:39:45 AM, you wrote: look at a cross section of a node. Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodeswithsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod. Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom Tom I spent all day yesterday fishing - went way up on Jeremy's Run andhad a super day - did not get down off the mountain until after dark - Itdoes help the body and soul.I could do the same type of math with nodes - 1" per node x 30nodes = almost 3' of ugly stuff! Now lets go for overall mass - the nodesare full section width while glue lines are but .001. I think the important fact is today we have developed methodsto efficiently build nodeless rods while if I did it like Garrison did itwouldstill remain nice - but takes too much time. Regards Chris from russett@bcn.net Sat Apr 5 19:20:54 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.4/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA05499 for Subject: HH CARBIDE GUIDES I've been using the HH diamond like carbide on all my rods. I reallylike them but they have cost me sales. There are plenty of people outthere that want bronze snake guides on their bamboo. Others have complained that when I file down the feet of the guide they couldsee the silver color under the wraps. Now if I'm making the rod What would be the best way to blacken the feet on the guide afterI file them down? I am also interested in others opinions on Guides. Just got some Elephant silk from Belvoirdale. Said when he is sold out there isn't any more. Any other good sources of fuzzless real fine silk out there? Thanks. Larry from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Apr 5 19:36:52 1997 Subject: Re: Taper Design Darryl,The tapers I like the best have their highest stresses 13"-16 " from thetip. I'm finding the parabolics usually cast a country mile but they're notto my taste-I tend to like a straight taper with a fine tip-maybe evenparabolic somewhat in the tip only. It's all a matter of taste(some say it'sall in my mouth:-). Just my $.02.Hank.P.S. I believe the increased stiffness in the nodeless rods are due to thescarf joint glue lines-don't know for sure but I think so. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Apr 5 19:45:53 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless Jon - I've got a 7 foot oven. Naturally, as soon as I built it Bill decidedthat 7 foot, 3 inches was the best length for a trout rod. For a while hewasafter me to drill a hole in one end. Thank God he went nodeless. -- Tom from DANNUGENT@aol.com Sat Apr 5 21:26:56 1997 Subject: OVEN I am thinking a vertical oven to conserve on space.Maybe call it a (SPACE SAVER OVEN).Juat woundering if some one has one working and how do they like thefinished product?DAN from KDLoup@aol.com Sat Apr 5 21:31:13 1997 Subject: desiccant I notice that the rodmakers web page list a source for desiccant, but Ihaven't read anything about its use. I assume it is used to store canestrips that are in the process of planing between heat treatments in highhumidity conditions. Is this correct? Any other uses? Since moistureentryis to be avoided, I came up with the idea of storing the cane that I will beworking on inside of a closed PVC tube with desiccant inside. Is thispractical or worth the effort? I live in Louisiana where humidity isalwayspresent, especially in the coming months. I'll probably start my first rodsometime next month with days and nights, I'm sure, that will havehumidityin the 90%+ range. Tonight's humidity is 93%. All advice will beappreciated. Kurt from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Apr 5 22:32:37 1997 Subject: Re: OVEN In a message dated 4/6/97 3:30:12 AM, you wrote: Dan - Remember that heat rises, and therefore you will probably havetemperature stratification unless you provide for air circulation -- Tom from Leessinker@aol.com Sun Apr 6 00:40:38 1997 Subject: Re: HH CARBIDE GUIDES Larry , here's a few from a beginner,To blacken the filed portion of the foot I have simply used a blackpermanentmarker.Also do you use a color preservative on your wraps? Without preservativethewraps changes color and transparent making things visable , no matterhowwell you burrnish the the wraps , including silver filed guide feet ormetalic threads used on your tippet .Learned this after it was too late, fortunatly the rod was for myself.Dewayne from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sun Apr 6 07:09:09 1997 Subject: HH CARBIDE GUIDES RO>I've been using the HH diamond like carbide on all my rods. I reallyRO>like them but they have cost me sales. There are plenty of people outRO>there that want bronze snake guides on their bamboo. Others haveRO>complained that when I file down the feet of the guide they couldRO>see the silver color under the wraps. Now if I'm making the rodRO>for someone I ask them what they want. RO>What would be the best way to blacken the feet on the guide afterRO>I file them down? RO>I am also interested in others opinions on Guides. RO>Just got some Elephant silk from Belvoirdale. Said when he isRO>sold out there isn't any more. Any other good sources ofRO>fuzzless real fine silk out there? RO>Thanks. Larry Larry, The only other major source of fine silk thread that I know is YLI. Theysell thread in sizes 50 and 100 (both metric) - but this thread, Ibelieve, was originally intended to be used as sewing thread. Very goodcolor selection. Angler's Workshop stocks and sells the YLI thread too. They order in quantity from YLI and still have a hard time getting somecolors for stock. (I talked to one of owners about trying to get somejasper thread made for restorations - no luck) The Elephant silk is getting to be rare stuff. Stock up! Don Burns from SealRite@aol.com Sun Apr 6 07:58:57 1997 Subject: Tip of the Day - Reel Seats When I turn a reel seat, I have found that I can work with really pretty andcomplex grained wood by ocassionally applying a coating of superglue tothesurface as I turn it down. It soaks into the wood, hardens & stabilizes thegrain. When I get down to the final +/- surface, I put a light coat on andhit it with an accelerator. It seals the grain well, can be polished to ahigh luster with fine sand paper 300-400 and just a little tung oilfinishesthe reel seat off nicely. Just be careful not to glue your fingers to thepiece. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Apr 6 08:20:28 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless In a message dated 97-04-05 20:57:19 EST, you write: Jon - I've got a 7 foot oven. Naturally, as soon as I built it Bill decidedthat 7 foot, 3 inches was the best length for a trout rod. For a while hewasafter me to drill a hole in one end. Thank God he went nodeless. -- Tom Tom: The hole in one end works just fine.RTyree from SealRite@aol.com Sun Apr 6 08:22:20 1997 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Angle Best plane I ever worked with is a Stanley 65. It is an older model out ofproduction now. It has a 12 +/- degree angle. I got it from myGrandfatherwho was a cabinet maker in the mid 50's. Another excellent plane is aRecord9 1/2. The Records have a little better fit & finish than the Stanley's.The Record 9 1/2 has a frog that keeps the blade from chattering. Craig Anderson from rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us Sun Apr 6 08:29:50 1997 Subject: disconnect Mike,Please remove me from the list. I will be out of town for awhile. Willget back to you upon my returnThanks,Ron Barch from SealRite@aol.com Sun Apr 6 08:40:13 1997 Subject: Re: Carbide Questions - George? I work in a company that does a substantial amount of wood millwork. Carbideblades are great for long production runs, but generally don't work well onsoftwoods. I don't know how you would classify bamboo. The reason a lotofpeople use carbide blades is because they don't need sharpened as often -thenegative is that they can never hold the edge that a steel blade does. Thecarbide basically wears away over time, causing a long term degregationofthe blade sharpness. Steel on the other hand needs to be resharpend moreoften, but can be hand sharpened to a sharper edge. Craig Anderson from SealRite@aol.com Sun Apr 6 08:45:27 1997 Subject: Re: Bag material If the node splits out, try using a simple cabinet scraper. A few pulls overthe node should clean it right up. Craig Anderson from jimholm@itsnet.com Sun Apr 6 09:51:02 1997 scratchy.itsnet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA05423 for Subject: diconnect Please disconnect. Thanks for opportunity to listen in. Jim from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 6 09:58:16 1997 Subject: Rod testing A recent posting by Ed Estlow got me thinking about rod testing again. Ayearor so ago there was an article in Fly Fisherman in which a man with anengineering background had set up a machine to measure the oscillationrateof fly rods. Oscillation rate is directly related to the speed and distance aline can be cast. The man called this the hidden signature of a rod. Thepoint of the article was that over the years, the oscillation rate of flyrods has significantly increased. The whole thing made sense to me, and itoccurred to me that it would be a useful piece of information for bamboobuilders as well. Those of us who are experimenting with such things ashollow building, spiraling, 4 & 5 strip,etc. would have a method of seeinghow much of a difference we are making. The author gave no discription ofthemachine, I assume it must have been some sort of a metronomemechanism. Iwould be interested in comments by Ed, or others with technicalbackgrounds,as to what might be involved in such a machine. - Tom from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sun Apr 6 10:01:46 1997 JAA08604; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 09:01:43 -0600 Subject: Re: HH CARBIDE GUIDES Larry , here's a few from a beginner,To blacken the filed portion of the foot I have simply used a blackpermanentmarker.Also do you use a color preservative on your wraps? Without preservativethewraps changes color and transparent making things visable , no matterhowwell you burrnish the the wraps , including silver filed guide feet ormetalic threads used on your tippet .Learned this after it was too late, fortunatly the rod was for myself.Dewayne Larry, I tried the permenent marker, several brands, and had problems. The inkdid not stick when I coated the wraps. John Zimny recommended using amixof epoxy thinned with MEK mixed with black paint pigment from an artsupply store. Takes a little more time but since I prefer the transparentwraps will continue to use this as long as I am using the H&H carbideguides. Being new I am still not sure the H&H are the way to go. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun Apr 6 10:36:43 1997 Subject: Re: OVEN ----------From: DANNUGENT@aol.com Subject: OVENDate: Saturday, April 05, 1997 8:26 PM I am thinking a vertical oven to conserve on space.Maybe call it a (SPACE SAVER OVEN).Juat woundering if some one has one working and how do they like thefinished product?DAN See Issue #20 of The Planing Form.John from wishbone@headwaters.com Sun Apr 6 13:30:29 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Re: Rod testing From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Rod testing A recent posting by Ed Estlow got me thinking about rod testing again. Ayearor so ago there was an article in Fly Fisherman in which a man with anengineering background had set up a machine to measure the oscillationrateof fly rods. Oscillation rate is directly related to the speed and distancealine can be cast. The man called this the hidden signature of a rod. Thepoint of the article was that over the years, the oscillation rate of flyrods has significantly increased. The whole thing made sense to me, anditoccurred to me that it would be a useful piece of information for bamboobuilders as well. Those of us who are experimenting with such things ashollow building, spiraling, 4 & 5 strip,etc. would have a method of seeinghow much of a difference we are making. The author gave no discriptionof themachine, I assume it must have been some sort of a metronomemechanism. Iwould be interested in comments by Ed, or others with technicalbackgrounds,as to what might be involved in such a machine. - Tom I personally know an individual who set up such a test several years ago at the University of Alabama. My friend used to teach there, and he was able to use the equipment the University had, as well as use the expertise of the Professor in the field. The tests were an attempt to compare fibreglass to graphite, and, using a control sample, to test the theory that added thread and epoxy and different types of handles would affect sensitivity. What he discovered was that sensitivity was affected so slightly that he defied any human hand to notice the difference. If you want, I will try to locate the test results and scan them for you, or send copies snail mail. Perhaps it will give you an idea of what is involved in what you are thinking of doing. Regards, Ian H. ScottWishbone Custom Rods2 Henry St., R.R. #1Grand Valley, OntarioL0N 1G0 519-928-2906 http://www.absolute-sway.comhttp://www.absolute-sway.com/wishbone IAW "He that will not reason is a bigot;He that cannot reason is a fool; andHe that dare not reason is a slave" Sir William Drummond from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 6 14:36:29 1997 Subject: Re: Rod testing In a message dated 4/6/97 6:34:51 PM, you wrote: Ian - Thanks, I would be interested in anything you could come up with. -Tom from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Apr 6 16:35:13 1997 Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/5/97 2:39:45 AM, you wrote: look at a cross section of a node. Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodeswithsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod.Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom How about THE NODE LOVERS PROTECTIVE ASSOCIATION. Now that has aring to it. And remember masochism is in the gestalt of the beholder!John from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Sun Apr 6 17:49:49 1997 SAA18089 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 18:49:45 - Subject: Re: Tip of the Day - Reel Seats At 08:58 AM 4/6/97 -0400, someone wrote: When I turn a reel seat, I have found that I can work with really prettyandcomplex grained wood by ocassionally applying a coating of superglue tothesurface as I turn it down. It soaks into the wood, hardens & stabilizesthegrain. When I get down to the final +/- surface, I put a light coat on andhit it with an accelerator. It seals the grain well, can be polished to ahigh luster with fine sand paper 300-400 and just a little tung oilfinishesthe reel seat off nicely. Just be careful not to glue your fingers to thepiece. The thicker super glues such as Zap-a-Gap also do a great job of fillingthose small cracks that sometimes show up in highly figured wood. Justbuild it up a little higher than the surface of the wood, sand it smooth,polish it and the crack will disappear. Later,Johnny-------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun Apr 6 18:00:41 1997 Subject: Re: Rod testing ----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Rod testingDate: Sunday, April 06, 1997 7:57 AM A recent posting by Ed Estlow got me thinking about rod testing again. Ayearor so ago there was an article in Fly Fisherman in which a man with anengineering background had set up a machine to measure the oscillationrateof fly rods. Oscillation rate is directly related to the speed anddistance aline can be cast. The man called this the hidden signature of a rod. Thepoint of the article was that over the years, the oscillation rate of flyrods has significantly increased. The whole thing made sense to me, anditoccurred to me that it would be a useful piece of information for bamboobuilders as well. Those of us who are experimenting with such things ashollow building, spiraling, 4 & 5 strip,etc. would have a method ofseeinghow much of a difference we are making. The author gave no discriptionofthemachine, I assume it must have been some sort of a metronomemechanism. Iwould be interested in comments by Ed, or others with technicalbackgrounds,as to what might be involved in such a machine. - Tom There's not much new under the sun: I think it was Dawn Holbrook ofSeattlewho, around 1975, gave me a chart labelled "Determination of Line Size"onwhich you compared oscillations/min. to rod length to arrive at the linesize. I suspect the chart was developed in the 40's or earlier. No machine was involved - the rod was held down firmly by the handgriponthe edge of a table or bench with one hand. The other hand (one fingeractually) started the rod oscillating and once you found the rhythm timingbegan.e.g. 108 to 120 osc/min indicates a 4 line for a 7' rod, 5 for 7.5', 6 for8' etc. If I knew how to send a chart on this infernal contraption I would. Perhapssomeone who does know will send me his snail mail address and it can geton that way. John Bokstrom from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Apr 6 18:12:13 1997 TAA21574 for ; Sun, 6 Apr 1997 19:12:08 - Subject: Nodeless To Tom, Chris, Ed, and all: 4/5/97Can't say for sure that nodeless are stiffer, but they do seem smootherand along with that they seem to have no detectable spline which may be aclue as to their superiority. They certainly are easy to plane and aguaranteed antidote to @#$%^&* nodes. Try one in penta geometry for arealkick. Viva Titebond II. Bill from mrj@seanet.com Sun Apr 6 18:33:56 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16970 for Subject: Re: Rod testing TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 4/6/97 6:34:51 PM, you wrote: you, or send copies snail mail. Perhaps it will give you an idea ofwhat is involved in what you are thinking of doing. Ian - Thanks, I would be interested in anything you could come up with. -Tom I read John Bokstroms message and I have some paper work by DawnHolbrook. He uses (and I use) this occilation meathod to determine theside of the rod to put the guides onI believe I also read somethingabout this in Letcher Lambuths book. I will check. Ray Gould is commingout with a new book on bamboo rod building and I think that he willmention in it the specifics on determining rod line weight using rodoccilation. As far as machine goes you really wouldn't need much. Justclamp the rod in a holder or vice and push on the rod near the handle.It doesn't matter if one person pushes fast and another person pushesslowly, by the time the vibrations get out to the end of the rod,whichis where you would measure them at, the occilations will be the sameregardless of the speed you start them at. I don't know if this is whatyou want but more information on your original article it is all I cando now. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 6 18:55:38 1997 Subject: Re: Rod testing In a message dated 4/6/97 11:21:14 PM, you wrote: John - The chart sounds like a very interesting resource. Maybe Ron wouldpublish it in The Planing Form? - -- Tom from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Apr 6 19:04:51 1997 Subject: Re: Rod testing Martin - You are right that lambuth mentions this test in the book, but hedoes not go into the detail that you and John are talking about. Thanks forthe input---Tom from bryans@connectu.net Sun Apr 6 21:05:39 1997 ns1.connectu.net (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA10217 for Subject: Plane numbers Uh-Oh here's one of those basic questions, please forgive my ignorance.I have just started to gather my tools for the foray into canerodbuilding and I came across a deal on a Stanley plane at my localhardware store. It has a Product No. 12-020 and a Catalog No. 9 1/2. Myquestion is this the same thing as the much heralded 9 1/2 that I see somuch written about? thanks for the time....bryan from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Apr 6 21:07:06 1997 Subject: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Hiya -I was just down in the work room heating and vising nodes when thed--- edest thing happened. I was using the heatgun, rocking and testingthe flex as Wayne shows in his video, when the strip broke apart rightat the node!! It just broke into two pieces, and I could see the endsof the power fibres staring at me! Had to quit and go get a beer andask you guys for some help.Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong? Should I beworried that this node in all the other strips (it's da butt) is bad?Any input (except Chris and his camp saying "See, one more reason to gonodeless!!!BG) would be mostly appreciated.I'm going to stop where I'm at until I figure this out. Thanks! Brian > from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 7 00:26:11 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA23120 for Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! I would not worry too much about this problem. What is happening is thatyou are learning when you can force a bend and when the bamboo is nothot enough. It is an experience thing. Pretty soon you will be able tosay to yourself "I'd better stop right there because if I go onemillameter further it will snap! I know it !" Seriously, you break a fewof these and you will learn the limits to which you can go. Just chalkit up to experience and start up with a new strip. When you get to thenode straightening, just be a little bit more sensitive. The bambooshould bend easily with allmost no required pressure. If it feels likeyou have to force it you are probably bending it before you get it hotenough. I get mine hot enough to just barley start to char the pithside. I make sure to not char the rind side. I use a heat gun on highand fine that it takes about 40 or 50 seconds to properly heat a stripthat is about 1/4 in. wide. Bigger strips take longer and smaller stripstake less. I rarly go less that 30 seconds though. Hiya -I was just down in the work room heating and vising nodes when thed--- edest thing happened. I was using the heatgun, rocking and testingthe flex as Wayne shows in his video, when the strip broke apart rightat the node!! It just broke into two pieces, and I could see the endsof the power fibres staring at me! Had to quit and go get a beer andask you guys for some help.Am I missing something? Am I doing something wrong? Should I beworried that this node in all the other strips (it's da butt) is bad?Any input (except Chris and his camp saying "See, one more reason to gonodeless!!!BG) would be mostly appreciated.I'm going to stop where I'm at until I figure this out. Thanks! Brian > -- Martin Jensen from mrj@seanet.com Mon Apr 7 00:26:12 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA23123 for Subject: Re: Plane numbers My suggestion is to get the Stanley Model 12-920. This is the same thingwith an adjustable throat. It wouldn't be a bad idea to have two planes,one for roughing in and another for the finish work. This would be finefor, and infact better than my "roughing plane. Uh-Oh here's one of those basic questions, please forgive my ignorance.I have just started to gather my tools for the foray into canerodbuilding and I came across a deal on a Stanley plane at my localhardware store. It has a Product No. 12-020 and a Catalog No. 9 1/2. Myquestion is this the same thing as the much heralded 9 1/2 that I see somuch written about? thanks for the time....bryan -- Martin Jensen from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mon Apr 7 06:46:22 1997 Subject: Re: Plane numbers 97 10:19:06 pm Uh-Oh here's one of those basic questions, please forgive my ignorance.I have just started to gather my tools for the foray into canerodbuilding and I came across a deal on a Stanley plane at my localhardware store. It has a Product No. 12-020 and a Catalog No. 9 1/2. Myquestion is this the same thing as the much heralded 9 1/2 that I see somuch written about? thanks for the time....bryan Bryan,Yes, the 12-020 is a reproduction of the 9 1/2, which I believe is nolonger inproduction. The Stanley 12-020 is the block plane most people recommendforthe bulk of planing work. --Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mon Apr 7 07:08:45 1997 Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! at Apr 6, 97 10:12:26 pm Brian,That's probably a fairly common experience. It's happened to me once ortwice. Two things come to mind: 1) you might have overheated the strip(toasted it) and made it brittle that way. You only need to heat it enoughtocrush the node level with the surrounding cane. How dark is the nodearea? Itshouldn't be dark or charred at all, perhaps tanned or slightly toasted. 2)you might not have heated the node enough before you bent it, but if thatwerethe case I would expect a splintered break, not a clean one. The cleanbreaksuggests (only suggests mind you) crystalized lignin (the stuff you aretryingto melt to get it to bend). I suppose also it coule have been a weak piece ofcane. One thing you might try to prevent this in the future is holding the stripfarther away from the nozzle, thereby heating the strip more gradually,andheating it through the center without charring the external surfaces. As for the servicability of the strips, it's very hard to tell. If you havemore cane and are not far into the project, of course the smartest thing istostart over--that is, if you have reason to believe the other strips arebrittle. My guess is that a finished rod of overheated strips (if that's thecause) will be a bit faster that otherwise, and may, in the long run, notlastas long. Of course, it may also be subject to breakage when into a largefishor snag. You have probably already figured this out, and the answer willdepend on whether you have more cane and whether you want to start over. (Letme add this: if there is a question in your mind and you start over, it ishard might.) Please let me know if I can help further, and be sure to listen to others'judgments. -- Mark M. Freed, Ph.DDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from neuneman@fh-ge.de Mon Apr 7 08:15:04 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA03806; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 15:19:06 +0200Subject: Re: OVEN Hi Dan, I am thinking a vertical oven to conserve on space.Maybe call it a (SPACE SAVER OVEN).Juat woundering if some one has one working and how do they like thefinished product?DAN Try mine. I currently redo my web site, but I hope that I'll be ready in a few days. Frank Neunemannhttp://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/ P.S. If you build nodeless, use your kitchen stove. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon Apr 7 08:49:03 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 7 Apr 1997 09:48:54 EDT Subject: Re: nodes vs nodeless This explanation sounds correct. However, the idea that the geometry of the glue line sounds like a plausible alternative theory. I have no basis for this thought, it just sounds reasonable. Chris - I'm still mystified, and not really arguing for one theory oranother. My point on the glue lines is that if you replace say 30 nodeswithsplice that average 2 inches long you have added 5 feet of glue line,probably an increase of about 10% in an average rod. Anyway, we probably should end this thread. I'm starting to have visionsofthe Node Lovers support group meeting to perform their masochisticpreparation rituals, while elsewhere you and Bill perform gleefulcircumcisions. I really need to go fishing. -- Tom Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Apr 7 09:37:26 1997 Subject: Re: Flatening nodes - HELLLLP!! Martin -Thanks for the advice. "Just be a little bit more sensetive." Nowwhere have I heard that before?!?Brian from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Apr 7 09:40:16 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Milward bindin machine I'm building the four head counter-rotating binding machine illustrated in the archives. I made the 6" pulleys out of hardwood turned on my wood lathe - anyonehave any ideas whether this will stand up to use? Also,, can anybody suggest a source for the polyurethane belt referencedin the write up? Many thanks. ThomasP@nacm.com from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon Apr 7 09:57:42 1997 services.state.mo.us (8.8.3/8.8.0) with SMTP id JAA24746 for Subject: Re: Tip Breakage Wayne wrote:The Mysterious Broken TipsIt's now happened 4 times, mysteriously the tip of a fly rod breaks just below the tip top. Two of the rods I had made, the others were older classics. The question was always why. The answer I have come up with is that the cases were too long for the rods. Because of the over length of the cases the rod under certain circumstances slid in the case and impacted the cap with enough energy as to fracture the tip. In the case of the last incident the rod case is a good 3 inches too long for the case. This raises the issue of how much extra room there should be in a rod case. Apparently 3 inches is too much. This much room allows the enclosed rod to built enough kinetic energy to fracture a tip say when a rod tube were to be dropped. Or a rod tube slides into a solid surface when the vehicle