from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 1 03:27:57 1997 Thu, 1 May 1997 16:27:43 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lathe speed On Thu, 1 May 1997 JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: What speed (rpms) is recommended when using a lathe to turn grips andferrulestations? Thanks in advance. smooth run, but for wood any speed from moderate to fast is usuallyalright but it depends on the type and how figured it is. Sanding cork, go as fast as you like also. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Jerry.Snider@UC.Edu Thu May 1 07:26:20 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes I certainly would be interested in the Sherline lathe. Keep me posted.At 06:24 PM 4/30/97 +0000, you wrote:I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathes but I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could get them at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else. I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However, they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Would anyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send for prices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean Jerry SniderProfessor of Biological Sciences andCurator of the Herbarium (CINC) Department of Biological SciencesP.O. Box 210006University of CincinnatiCincinnati, OH 45221-0006Phone: Office/Lab (513)556-9761e- mail: CINC@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDUhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Thu May 1 08:03:11 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA30783 for; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:03:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Same. I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathes but I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could get them at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else. I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However, they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Would anyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send for prices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 10:07:30 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 09:18:33 EDT, you write: Why use a stress curve to "represent an action in a rod on paper"? Theyaren't needed. It's much easier, simpler and safer to modify the actualtaper than to modify something that is twice removed by a mess ofcalculations. Because stress curves tell you a heck of a lot more than a graph of the diameters can. Check the archives over the last twomonths for a discussion on stress curves. Darryl Hayashida from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Thu May 1 10:18:05 1997 mail-oak-2.pilot.net with ESMTP id IAA27096 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA253770413; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:26:53- 0700 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 0003E75B; Thu, 1 May 9708:24:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon, I am looking to buy Sherline accessories for my small bench lathe. Many of these will fit with little or no modifications due to standard tool and taper sizes. I would also be very interested in their long-bed lathe. Please keep in touch. Regards, L.D.Crosslloyd.cross@clorox.comldcross3@worldnet.att.net (sorry for the bandwidth, as my cc-Mail does not give the address header) ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Sherline LathesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathes but I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could get them at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else. I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However, they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Would anyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send for prices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes you see something you were'nt noticing which makes you see something that isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from dbrady@got.net Thu May 1 11:31:06 1997 you.got.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA15356 for; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:21:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes John, I'm very interested in the Sherline lath. I've checked out theircatalog and the tool seems to fit the bill perfectly. Keep me posted onthe price and availability. Dennis,Santa Cruz, CA from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu May 1 11:33:43 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design John,I agree, now that I can run hexrod on my machine. After doing close to100 rods the last 20 years by graphing the tapers I think I can predictpretty closely the action for a given taper. The only thing the computermight do more quickly is give dimensions for a similar action when goingfromone length to another, although I can do it pretty well using graph paper.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu May 1 11:33:47 1997 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Same.Hank Woolman from bokstrom@axionet.com Thu May 1 11:56:05 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod design Date: Thursday, May 01, 1997 8:06 AM In a message dated 97-05-01 09:18:33 EDT, you write: Why use a stress curve to "represent an action in a rod on paper"? Theyaren't needed. It's much easier, simpler and safer to modify theactualtaper than to modify something that is twice removed by a mess ofcalculations. Because stress curves tell you a heck of a lot more than a graph of the diameters can. Check the archives over the last twomonths for a discussion on stress curves. Sorry, but I don't buy that. The stress curve concept of Mr. G. is a staticapproach to a dynamic situation and therefor cannot be correct. I'mstayingwith the engineers who don't agree with him. John from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu May 1 13:58:07 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id SAA19185 for; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:58:03 GMT Subject: Re: Rod design John Bokstrom wrote: ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod designDate: Wednesday, April 30, 1997 1:45 PM In a message dated 97-04-30 14:59:09 EDT, you write: theshortcomings of Mr. G's design method to come into the open, perhapsanindication of the well-deserved respect we all have for him. (big cut...) Bamboo, since it is a natural fiber, will not respond in theexact same way from culm to culm. It is much better to simplifyand spread your calculations over a broad range than to tryand pin down an exact response to some variable. Darryl Hayashida Why use a stress curve to "represent an action in a rod on paper"? Theyaren't needed. It's much easier, simpler and safer to modify the actualtaper than to modify something that is twice removed by a mess ofcalculations. John Bokstrom I think that leaving out the stress curve calculations could be a largemistake, one that might leave you with a fractured rod after the firstcast. The purpose of any stress curve is to determine wheather or notthe material being stressed can and will hold up to the moments ofinertial stress that it will normally be subjected to. With out thisinformation - construction becomes hit - or miss, hope it holds togetherguess work. When working in cane it is true that variances in the rawmaterial will occur but you will always have a base strength measurementto work from, the long fibers in cane vary mostly in number and length, the one major weak link- the joint. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 14:08:11 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 12:58:07 EDT, you write: Sorry, but I don't buy that. The stress curve concept of Mr. G. is a staticapproach to a dynamic situation and therefor cannot be correct. I'mstayingwith the engineers who don't agree with him. John Let's see... What can I do with a stress curve that I can't witha taper graph... With a stress curve you can tell what line weight should be used, and youcansee if going to a heavier line will over stress your rod. from the shape of the curve you can tell if a rod will be fast, slow,parabolic,or a strange variant action (check out the Leonard rod on Jerry Foster'swebpage). You can get an idea as to how the rod will roll cast. You can incorporate the weight of varnish, guides, ferrules, and the lengthof the line of your average cast into your taper design. You can duplicate an action of a rod for a different line weight or adifferentlength or both. You can simulate the effects of hollowing out the rod. You can find out how much the bamboo in a rod will weigh. You can change a two piece taper into a multipiece taperand still preserve the action. And maybe more, but that's all I can think of right now. Darryl Hayashida from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Thu May 1 15:12:16 1997 13:11:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod design Darryl: Weren't rod makers working these things out empirically way beforestresscurves? Yes, having a sound theory would eliminate the guess work andavoidhaving to iterate your work. But is the theory of stress curves asdevelopedso far the correct one? The other posts on this subject indicate that thetheory doesn't really apply to a dynamic system. Or has it been yourexperience that the static-based theory is adequate for rod design? Let's see... What can I do with a stress curve that I can't witha taper graph... With a stress curve you can tell what line weight should be used, and youcansee if going to a heavier line will over stress your rod. from the shape of the curve you can tell if a rod will be fast, slow,parabolic,or a strange variant action (check out the Leonard rod on Jerry Foster'swebpage). You can get an idea as to how the rod will roll cast. You can incorporate the weight of varnish, guides, ferrules, and the lengthof the line of your average cast into your taper design. You can duplicate an action of a rod for a different line weight or adifferentlength or both. You can simulate the effects of hollowing out the rod. You can find out how much the bamboo in a rod will weigh. You can change a two piece taper into a multipiece taperand still preserve the action. And maybe more, but that's all I can think of right now. Darryl Hayashida ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 12:15:53-0700 Subject: Re: Rod design from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu May 1 15:53:10 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Darryl, John et al, But what are the stresses? There are some big assumptions that rodstressover ???? are too much - says who? Garrison arbitarily assigns somestresses that shouldn't be exceeded. Do we assume that these are correctalso? After all, his math is questionable by some. Does Hexrod & othercomputer designs use similar "well I think these is the maximum stress"orhas someone developed a process of determining maximum stress. Wouldlike toknow. DonAnd yes I am a grapher - not computer literate enough to determinewhetherHexrod is for me. Appreciate that it works for others though. Thank God wedon't all do things the same way - we all would be married to the samewoman. At 15:50 01/05/97 -0800, you wrote:Darryl: Weren't rod makers working these things out empirically way beforestresscurves? Yes, having a sound theory would eliminate the guess work andavoidhaving to iterate your work. But is the theory of stress curves asdevelopedso far the correct one? The other posts on this subject indicate that thetheory doesn't really apply to a dynamic system. Or has it been yourexperience that the static-based theory is adequate for rod design? Let's see... What can I do with a stress curve that I can't witha taper graph... With a stress curve you can tell what line weight should be used, and youcansee if going to a heavier line will over stress your rod. from the shape of the curve you can tell if a rod will be fast, slow,parabolic,or a strange variant action (check out the Leonard rod on Jerry Foster'swebpage). You can get an idea as to how the rod will roll cast. You can incorporate the weight of varnish, guides, ferrules, and thelengthof the line of your average cast into your taper design. You can duplicate an action of a rod for a different line weight or adifferentlength or both. You can simulate the effects of hollowing out the rod. You can find out how much the bamboo in a rod will weigh. You can change a two piece taper into a multipiece taperand still preserve the action. And maybe more, but that's all I can think of right now. Darryl Hayashida ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------Received: by cpqm.saic.com with ADMIN;1 May 1997 12:15:40 -0800Return-Path: Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Thu, 1 May 9712:15:53-0700 Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com (emout08.mx.aol.com Received: ( from root@localhost) Message-Id: Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod design X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 1 16:04:18 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 14:04:14 -0700 Subject: attachment 4.0.994.63 gentleman is there still a attachment on my email or did I by chance figure outhow to eleminate it. Patrick from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu May 1 16:45:12 1997 Subject: RE:attachment RO>RO>gentleman is there still a attachment on my email or did I by chancefigureoutRO>how to eleminate it. RO>Patrick It's gone. Don B. from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Thu May 1 16:51:34 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA10758 Subject: Re: Rod design Don Andersen wrote: Darryl, John et al, But what are the stresses? There are some big assumptions that rodstressover ???? are too much - says who? Garrison arbitarily assigns somestresses that shouldn't be exceeded. Do we assume that these are correctalso? After all, his math is questionable by some. Does Hexrod & othercomputer designs use similar "well I think these is the maximum stress"orhas someone developed a process of determining maximum stress. Wouldlike toknow. DonAnd yes I am a grapher - not computer literate enough to determinewhetherHexrod is for me. Appreciate that it works for others though. Thank Godwedon't all do things the same way - we all would be married to the samewoman. The way you would figure out the maximum stress for bamboo is the sameas you sould figure it our for any material - you break it undercarefully controlled conditions. Knowing the cross sectionalcharacteristics of the test piece, the loading, and other relevantcriteria such as how you are holding the test piece, you can calculatethe stress at which the bamboo broke. A while back, I suggested makingsuch a test piece out of the same culm as the rod one is building. Itcould be a glued up, 12", non-tapered, hex piece for a hex rod, forinstance. That way one might make some predictions about the future rod. Note that this injects an element of engineering into an artisticprocess that many will get hives from just thinking about. Ultimatelyuseful? Who knows? Each should answer that for him- or herself. Best regards,Ed Estlow from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Thu May 1 16:59:28 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA15097 Subject: Re: Rod design John Bokstrom wrote: SNIP Sorry, but I don't buy that. The stress curve concept of Mr. G. is a staticapproach to a dynamic situation and therefor cannot be correct. I'mstayingwith the engineers who don't agree with him.John In structural engineering, static or dynamic, "correct" is a relativeterm. One uses varying degrees of approximation. Probably the realargument here is how close is our approximation. To be rigorouslycorrect, we'd all be doing higher order differential equations that makecalculations for a rendevoux with the moon look easy. So we resort toapproximations. If nothing else, they're a good starting point. One cancount any number of engineering approximations that work perfectly well quantum physics, for one. from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu May 1 17:31:59 1997 PAA18151 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:31:25 - 0700 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon, if the price is right, I'm interested. Thanks,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Apr 30 18:40:59 1997Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:25:29 -0700 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Martin Jensen Subject: Re: Sherline LathesMIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 974 Jon Lintvet wrote: I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathesbut I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could getthem at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else.I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However,they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Wouldanyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send forprices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman MacleanI would be interested. I haven't really paid much attention to thediscussion on the lathes though. I don't know if I could afford one. ButI'm still interested at this point. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu May 1 17:36:47 1997 SAA17272 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:38:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod design Hank The only real benefit I've found from the programs is to takea taper that my be on 6" centers and easily convert it to 5" centers withgood accuracy. After that - the taper is in the eye of the beholder. Regards Chris from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu May 1 17:54:53 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Perhaps it could be called a series of 'fudge' factors - less thatscientifically correct - whatever. But within reasonable bounds Mr G mathcanand does work for "fudging" several areas of rod design - 1)changing lineweight 2) changing from a 2 piece to 3 piece rod 3) illustrating differentrod characters a) a parabolic action - reversed J b) amplitude - which cancompare rod speeds.Are there better methods? perhaps - the test would be the percentageofoutcome predictability. Can I create a taper that is a correct line sizelower in a different ferrule arrangement than the original and have it castwith the same characteristic.I feel (emotion - not scientific) that I have been able to do this - butcan I explain all the elements - no.I think that you would all agree that no two rods can be exactly thesame- the material - components and many other factors come into play andwitheach having a window of error the combinations can represent twoextremes.The question is will a design system be as accurate as the total ofintolerances. If it is then it should work.I am convinced that Mr G had a file of tapers other than his own - justlike most of us do. And from this file he confirmed his formulas anddeveloped his curve to suit how he wanted to make his rods.There are other ideas and they may be better footed mathematically andI'm sure that there will be more to come as more minds enter into thecraft.Preferance - I chose to do what I'm doing. Just as others have spend yearsdesigning with their systems I have used Mr G's. If I were to change now Iwould be starting out fresh and unknowledged - throwing out severalyears ofthought and work.An illustration might be this - I'm told that the BETA video recordingsystem was better than the VHS version but because of some ' blue sky'VHSwon out for the consumer. Please understand too - this post was meant to deal with more of thegrassroots issues than to one design system over another. Wayne from jfoster@gte.net Thu May 1 18:22:03 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design I can't stand it any more... I think everyone, well... not everyone, but lots of us are missing thepoint.. Now that I've looked, a lot, at Wayne and G.'s math I'vepersonally come to the conclusion that the static, dynamic, imperical,arguments are bunk.. What's important to me is the fixed modelrelationship between a stress curve and FEEL. Hank and a few of you maybe able to look at a taper and determine the line wt. and action but I,and I assume, several others aren't in that league yet. So what does astress curve do for me? I can stick the taper in the program and relate what I see to rods Ihave made, or cast, or read about, and predict what the damn thingshould do. And to invert Terance's logic, ignor the humidity or fiberdensity, or whatever variables are also relevant, 'cause that, likehitting the numbers is in the hands of God and the builder anyway.If we know about modeling, that's what the program is for. Don't usethem if you don't want to but but at some point its like building a rodwithout a plane..Personally I think we owe Wayne, big time, for giving us a very valuabletool... Thank you Wayne...again Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Thu May 1 18:28:08 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Here here Wayne..I'd now like to retract my posting.. however I believe the better format is Hi 8 Jer from cbogart@shentel.net Thu May 1 18:32:19 1997 TAA17877 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 19:33:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod design Wayne Rod design by a steel driving man. There is no subsitute for for building rods to get a feel for tapers.The question that gets lost is can the man beat the machine. I think so.The grizzly old farts argueing for emperical methods seem to know whatnumbers work. The Hexrod program is really very simple programcompared to the complex programs that really are needed to do real rod design - OKmachine giveme a 6' 8" 3wt with good roll cast charateristics and delicatepresentation. See it just stared at me and looked stupid. I am sure that somebody willinvestthe time and effort to do real design - until then we are still in the stoneage andtrust the instincts of the old fart rod builder - each who has a particular the perfect rod for their fishing conditions. Right now there is no realsubsitute Regards Chris from jfoster@gte.net Thu May 1 18:43:44 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design See, Chris is right, you can't build you first rod until you haveexperience... Jer from GLohkamp@aol.com Thu May 1 19:02:42 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design l checked out stress curves because l wanted to know what all the fussisabout . l didnt see anything that was not based in guess work some wherealong the line . l dont need a stress curve to tell me the line weight or topredict the action a simple graph can do that for me .Besides l was taughtingrade school that a good math equation will work backwards as well asforwards when you work the math for a stress curve backwards you end upwithdifferent numbers ..go figure that one out . just thought l would jump in l really like this kind of thread.thanks Gary Lohkamp from geneh@telenet.net Thu May 1 19:07:39 1997 UAA29794 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 20:09:02 - Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon, Keep me posted I too am interested. BTW I tried to send this to youprivately but it was bounced back. I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathesbut I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could getthem at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else.I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However,they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Wouldanyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send forprices and dealer information in the coming days. from mcreek@sirus.com Thu May 1 19:33:43 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design And boy would she be tired! Brian from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 1 19:51:48 1997 Fri, 2 May 1997 08:51:39 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon, seems you've opened the bottle on a jeanie. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from potterd@home.com Thu May 1 20:18:39 1997 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA20854 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS digest 606 I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathes but I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could get them at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else. I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However, they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Would anyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send for prices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College Jon, I too could also be interested in a Sherline Lathe. Please let me know what info you find out regarding princing/ availability. Don ============================================================================== Don Potter== potterd@home.com== ============================================================================ from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu May 1 21:11:53 1997 mailfep1-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Rod design It's fun to read the mail on the many theories and opinions on the finepoints of rod design. But, listening to so many differing voices, onehas to wonder how many are actually planing the cane  and actuallybuilding rods. We are easily distracted by the many fine points of thisnoble pastime  isn't that part of it's charm. Surely, Mr. G and histheories of rod design leave much to be questioned  but, isn't thatpart of his lasting charm? I don't know about you guys, but, I stillprefer to fish with a rod and not a calculator in hand. And, I stillprefer to build my rods with a plane and not a computer. If you canfigure a less labor intensive way  please, e-mail me! Joe Loverti from bokstrom@axionet.com Thu May 1 22:18:53 1997 Subject: Rod Deezine Thanks everyone. I ain't had so much fun in a long time.John BokstromPS The next TPF will have my design method in it. Then those who wishcanthrow virtual tomatoes at me again. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu May 1 22:24:10 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design GLohkamp@aol.com wrote: l checked out stress curves because l wanted to know what all the fussisabout . l didnt see anything that was not based in guess work some wherealong the line . l dont need a stress curve to tell me the line weight or topredict the action a simple graph can do that for me .Besides l wastaught ingrade school that a good math equation will work backwards as well asforwards when you work the math for a stress curve backwards you endup withdifferent numbers ..go figure that one out . just thought l would jump in l really like this kind of thread.thanks Gary LohkampBelieve me Gary. All modeling is based upon guess-work.John from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu May 1 23:01:21 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design I agree that if you don't have much experience in building various tapersthat the current visualization of stress curves will keep you out oftrouble-but consider this-some of my finer tapered tips exceed Garrison'supper limit of 220,000 psi in compression and tension ACCORDING TOCURRENTSTRESS CURVES and using 45' of the given weight line. Two of these rods Ihave used heavily for at least 4 years in one case and 15 inthe other. Had Ilimited myself to the stress curve parameter I might not have designedthetapers. Where does this leave us? Still in never never land and we fallbackon expereience-some of it bad ( I've designed some godawfull tapers).Anywayjust an old man's $.02Hank from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 23:09:10 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 22:14:01 EDT, you write: See, Chris is right, you can't build you first rod until you haveexperience... ROTFL!!!! Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 23:34:21 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 20:27:50 EDT, you write: Weren't rod makers working these things out empirically way beforestresscurves? Yes, having a sound theory would eliminate the guess work andavoidhaving to iterate your work. But is the theory of stress curves as developedso far the correct one? The other posts on this subject indicate thatthetheory doesn't really apply to a dynamic system. Or has it been yourexperience that the static-based theory is adequate for rod design? Yes, rod makers were working things out empirically before stresscurves, but I would much rather be able to design a rod withouthaving to make a couple dozen first.I have actually made and casted, used, fished the rods that I graphed. from that experience I know what kind of rod will result from a graph.I went down the taper graph route a couple of years ago. I even wentas far as analyzing the slope of the line, taking the first and secondderivatives, but there is no way a taper graph can convey the informationa stress curve does. And, as I said a little while ago, what are we trying to accomplish here?A mathmatically correct formula, or a way to build a rod with an action you want? The formula may be wrong, but as long as it's wrong in thesame way all the time, and I can convey that graph to an action I'mtrying to get, then it's good enough for me. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 23:48:31 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 23:35:30 EDT, you write: Besides l was taught ingrade school that a good math equation will work backwards as well asforwards when you work the math for a stress curve backwards you endupwithdifferent numbers ..go figure that one out . Successive approximations don't give you the same numbers if youwork the equation backwards, unless you successivlely back calculate. Darryl from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri May 2 08:19:00 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-05-01 22:14:01 EDT, you write: See, Chris is right, you can't build you first rod until you haveexperience... ROTFL!!!! Darryl Again, I see great wisdom here or hear. If one shouldn't build a rod without experience, then let us form the SOVRM - the Society of Virtual RodMakers.So named because they can't make a rod. Even better, the Societ of Virtual Fisherpersons. That, indeed, would keep the streams uncrowded.John from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Fri May 2 09:13:17 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Sherline lathes Jon - I would be interested. Incidentally, I tried to private mail you a response to your Q on the Milward binder a while back and it bounced three times. You may like to check on your system. ThomasP@nacm.com from fernel@vaxa.cis.uwosh.edu Fri May 2 10:21:01 1997 rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: culms Demarest has only small diameter culms in stock. Orvis has largerdiameter($18/12'?). Orvis quality? Are there other sources? With the renewedinterest in bamboo rodmaking one would think new sources would besurfacing.At $15-$18/culm the horror stories of up to 50% unusable stock arefrightening to say the least! A short overview please. Thanks,Tom Chirko Laura FerneliusMathematics DepartmentUW Oshkoshfernel@uwosh.edu from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 2 10:38:58 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-02 09:20:53 EDT, you write: Again, I see great wisdom here or hear. If one shouldn't build a rodwithout experience, then let us form the SOVRM - the Society of Virtual RodMakers.So named because they can't make a rod. Even better, the Societ ofVirtual Fisherpersons. That, indeed, would keep the streams uncrowded. Anybody have the first rod they made? I do. And it's a humblingexperience to take it out and look at it. The third rod I made luckilywas the 7' 4wt Cattanach taper, and that experience hooked meinto this hobby. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 2 10:49:58 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-02 04:12:36 EDT, you write: onehas to wonder how many are actually planing the cane and actuallybuilding rods. I do both. Read a few postings, plane awhile, read a posting, plane, etc.A typical evening. Right now I'm working on a 6'2" 3 piece 2 wt. inpreparation for a backpacking trip in the Calif. Sierra Nevada Mtns.I want to backpack in the Golden Trout Wilderness and catch a Golden Trout. They run fairly small in the upper elevation lakes andstreams and the two wt. should be just right. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 2 11:03:56 1997 Subject: Re: culms In a message dated 97-05-02 11:43:15 EDT, you write: At $15-$18/culm the horror stories of up to 50% unusable stock arefrightening to say the least! A short overview please. At $15-$18/culm the cost of bamboo is the cheapest thing inmaking a rod. You can get at least 2, sometimes 3 or 4rods out of a culm. Personally I've never had 50% rejectionof my bamboo. A few odd strips every now and again, butnever 50%. The smaller diameter is fine. You'll just neverget that extra 3rd or 4th rod out of the culm. Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri May 2 11:30:43 1997 Subject: RE:culms RO>Demarest has only small diameter culms in stock. Orvis has largerdiameterRO>($18/12'?). Orvis quality? Are there other sources? With therenewedRO>interest in bamboo rodmaking one would think new sources would besurfacing.RO>At $15-$18/culm the horror stories of up to 50% unusable stock areRO>frightening to say the least! A short overview please. RO>Thanks,RO>Tom Chirko RO>Laura FerneliusRO>Mathematics DepartmentRO>UW OshkoshRO>fernel@uwosh.edu Some time last year my FFing club had the present Mr. Powell (Powellrods) as the monthly guest speaker. He was talking about their bamboostocks - they still have 1000's of culms from the pre-embargo timeperiod. I don't know if they'll sell any of them - somebody interested mightwant to ask. Don Burns from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Fri May 2 12:47:54 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: 15% discount on Sherline lathes Check out this site for a 15% discount - Jon Lintvet - can you beat this? http://www.mortonmachinery.com/sherline.html from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri May 2 14:03:57 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:04:31 EDT Subject: Re: 15% discount on Sherline lathes rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu The 15% is on cash sales only....and yes I can beat it. The only reason I am becoming a dealer is to buy one for myself. So, I really don't care if I am making any money....just want to cover the costs. On 2 May 97 at 10:42, Thomas Pindelski wrote: Check out this site for a 15% discount - Jon Lintvet - can you beat this? http://www.mortonmachinery.com/sherline.html Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 2 14:29:37 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Hey John,I've seen a lot of the Virtual Fisherpersons crowding the streams - they're all decked out ln everything in the Orvis,etc. catalogue and can'tfish worth shucks, they just crowd you if you're catching anything. As farasrod design goes it really don't make no never mind, as long as we get whatwewant in an action.Consistency is the main thing-Ive seen some beautifulrodsmade from hexrod-it just ain't my way-I'll use it to check a new taperagainst an old one if I think I'm on the edge of too much stress. Hank. P.S. John B., Are you still havin' fun? from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri May 2 15:15:41 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 May 1997 16:16:29 EDT Subject: Re: 15% discount on Sherline lathes I wanted to take a minute and apologize for taking up the band width. I am trying to keep my responses off the list serve. My initial intention was to find out if anyone would be interested. If anyone has questions or comments in the future, please mail them to me directly. Thanks...and sorry again. The 15% is on cash sales only....and yes I can beat it. The only reason I am becoming a dealer is to buy one for myself. So, I really don't care if I am making any money....just want to cover the costs. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mrj@seanet.com Fri May 2 15:17:51 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12564 for Subject: Re: attachment Coffey, Patrick W wrote: gentleman is there still a attachment on my email or did I by chance figure outhow to eleminate it. PatrickIt's not there. Good job from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri May 2 15:58:54 1997 Subject: Triple Convex In some past post I have mentioned 'hinges' - will in putting togethersome ideas a few nights ago I reread Vince M's In The Ring of The Rise -It'sbeen a few years. Anyway on page 55 he talks of a triple convex taper -andin looking at the illustration just quess what the convexing will give you.Well, it's off to Grayrock again this weekend - a tragic happening of amonth ago - there were two riverboats stored in a garage - well the roofkinda collapsed and pancaked the boats. So for the next couple of years Iwill be jigsaw puzzling a plank boat back together again. Ya know Chris,thismight be your chance - I think that we might be able to cram the piecesintoyour trunk for the trip back home - we could throw in a picture or two togive you the general idea of what it should look like if successfullyrebuilt. Wayne from mcreek@sirus.com Fri May 2 16:21:42 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design yeah. what he said! Brian from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri May 2 16:28:21 1997 ESMTP id QAA02059 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA01272 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id RMVCBFBD; Fri, 2May 1997 16:27:31 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Binder kits and oven kits Wayne: I am interested in your binder and oven kits you mentioned a few monthsback(December I think). Do you have any left, and can you ship them? How mucharethey? I sent you a message about this a few weeks back that may have nevergotten toyou. Jerry Foster told me about the kits. Thanks in Advance,Don DeLoachddeloach@ti.com from ghilbers@earthlink.net Fri May 2 17:46:14 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Know what you mean about 'Virtual Fisherpersons' decked out in thier newgear. We call it the Orvis hatch and it's usually coming off prettystrong about this time of year. Gary from jfoster@gte.net Fri May 2 19:18:51 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Ah Darryl Memories of Monanche Meadows.. No kill Jerry from jsbond@inforamp.net Fri May 2 21:25:15 1997 Subject: Re: attachment Thanks goodness, she's gone.....Cheers JB At 14:04 01/05/97 -0700, you wrote: gentleman is there still a attachment on my email or did I by chance figure outhow to eleminate it. Patrick James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from mrj@seanet.com Fri May 2 23:24:23 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25970; Fri, 2 May 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Joe Loverti wrote: It's fun to read the mail on the many theories and opinions on the finepoints of rod design. But, listening to so many differing voices, onehas to wonder how many are actually planing the cane  and actuallybuilding rods. We are easily distracted by the many fine points of thisnoble pastime  isn't that part of it's charm. Surely, Mr. G and histheories of rod design leave much to be questioned  but, isn't thatpart of his lasting charm? I don't know about you guys, but, I stillprefer to fish with a rod and not a calculator in hand. And, I stillprefer to build my rods with a plane and not a computer. If you canfigure a less labor intensive way  please, e-mail me! Joe Loverti Jon,I'm guessing that your commas are being turned into the "N" as picturedabove. I think that this may be caused by a spell checker that makesfancy style commas and these cannot be handled by the e-mail. You mightcheck this out and if this is the case than maybe you can turn off thisfeature for your e-mail writing programs. from SalarFly@aol.com Sat May 3 00:25:55 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-02 23:06:18 EDT, you write: Ah Darryl Memories of Monanche Meadows.. Of course. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Sat May 3 00:56:25 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-03 00:37:33 EDT, you write: Subj: Re: Rod designDate: 97-05-03 00:37:33 EDTFrom: mcreek@sirus.com (brian & michelle creek) yeah. what he said! Brian Who? About what?It would make a little more sense If you would include something from the original post.... Darryl Hayashida from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat May 3 08:41:48 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA11657 for; Sat, 3 May 1997 15:43:40 -0200 Subject: Walter Brunner Fly Rods. Dear Friends, I am a collector of Walter Brunner Fly rods, the rodmaker it's fromAustria, and for me it's one of the best rodmakers.I search his rods in all model and condition, payment cash.Besides I am be glad send information at all the people want info aboutW.Brunner.I attend answer. Marco Boretti. from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat May 3 08:41:49 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA11652 for; Sat, 3 May 1997 15:43:38 -0200 Subject: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration. Dear Friends,I must restore an old Hardy Fly Rod, Phantom 6'10" line 5, the snke guideare wrapped in Black tipped Red color.What type, size and color of Nylon must I use ?Do I owe besides use a color preserve ?Could I have a help ?Sincerely, Marco Boretti. from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sat May 3 08:42:36 1997 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: New address and phone number My new address is Bill HenselPOB 583Englewood, Co 80151 I am getting devorced and my Xwife will not forward any letters or fone calls to me. So please use the above mailing address. Also use the following telephone number if you must talk to me. It is a number at one of my franchises in Denver and I see the owner almost everyday. Indicate you are a rod maker and leave your number and I will call you later at my exspense. Telephone number is 1-303-420-7797 the business anme is Tracys karate studios so dont freak out and think you have the wrong number. Tight Lines, Bill from cbogart@shentel.net Sat May 3 09:12:53 1997 KAA04599 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 10:14:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Triple Convex Wayne A river boat is still on my list of to do's. With my work moving andme trying to get the house in town ready for sale it has been a hectic time.However, for the good news, I have plans for the new shop out by thecabinwith lots of room that will be done this fall. I have a friend and guidethatwill help me do the shop and boat over the winter and I should have oneready for next year - Now what I can bring back is some pieces to use asa template for mine! Regards Chris from domenic1@ix.netcom.com Sat May 3 10:25:32 1997 ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 1997 11:24:46 -0400 Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK =_NextPart_000_01BC57B4.9B42B020" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC57B4.9B42B020 I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,if anyoneis interested please e mailor call me.Thank You Domenic P.Croce Croce Rod Co.1-26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC57B4.9B42B020 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC57B4.9B42B020-- from PATTEMI@mail.northgrum.com Sat May 3 11:16:37 1997 MAA17767 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 12:16:05 - MAA07469 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 12:16:05 - mail1.essd.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id MAA09648 for (5.0.1457.3) Subject: RE: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK Hi,I am interested in some of your silk thread, please send info andprices.ThanksMike ----------From: Domenic Croce[SMTP:domenic1@ix.netcom.com]Sent: Saturday, May 03, 1997 10:22 AM Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,ifanyone is interested please e mailor call me.Thank You Domenic P.Croce Croce Rod Co.1-26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sat May 3 14:36:04 1997 NAA03032; Sat, 3 May 1997 13:36:00 -0600 Subject: test I have not ben recieving the list. from devino@inlink.com Sat May 3 18:54:17 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id SAA05006 for Subject: Horrocks-Ibbottson ID? I was out in the country today and I bought myself an old cane rod at anantique place. At $35 (with old "cutaway" reel) I probably paid too much.I've been back and forth through Sinclairs book and can't yet get a handleon this rod's genre. I can positively tell you that it's an HI. There's abit of elongated diamond shaped Horrocks-Ibbotson label left. What's leftof the label, mostly on flats #6 and #2, is gold with black writing. The rest of the rod hardware is in bad shape. Excepting the tip-tops thereis only two snake guides left on this rod and they're in such bad shapethat I cannot tell if they were originally black or chrome. The cane looksgood to me. I know HI made some decent rods and I know they had some realbottom-of- the-barrel "brown baggers". If this rod is a real crapper I'llmake a wallhanger out of it. I know HI made a huge variety of rods. Here isas detailed a description: * Length overall is nine feet* Three piece, two identical tips* Reelseat is an all metal downlocking sliding band. It's plated brass* Grip is 4 1/2" sort of exaggerated full wells. Appears tobe solid cork, 1" rings. A rodent has chewed part of it.* Stripper guide is missing* Ferrules are rolled welt with two shallow ringscut in near the base.* Guide wraps are red, tipped in black* "Intermediates" on the butt section are a red wrap with two olive or yellow colored wraps spaced 3/8" away on either side.* Intermediates on the mid and tips are evenly spaced alternatingolive (or yellow) and red. Thanks to the list in advance for any commentary you may have on this rod.I have no clue what I'm going to do with it. It could end up on the wall instrument. Then again a big ole' heavy nine foot rod may make meappreciate my other cane rod more. Who knows? -=Mark=- from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Sat May 3 19:18:03 1997 ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Horrocks-Ibbottson ID? Mark Devino wrote: I have no clue what I'm going to do with it. It could end up on the wall instrument. Then again a big ole' heavy nine foot rod may make meappreciate my other cane rod more. Who knows? Obviously, Mark, this is the finest piece of fishing equipment producedthis half century. Accordingly, you will have no need for your otherClark rod which I will be glad to take off your hands for the same $35. Please ship it to me ASAP by Federal Express. Mike -- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625 from rcurry@jlc.net Sat May 3 20:30:06 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA01883 for Subject: Re: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK Domenic Croce wrote:From: Domenic Croce[SMTP:domenic1@ix.netcom.com]Sent: Saturday, May 03, 1997 10:22 AM Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,ifanyone is interested please e mailor call me.Thank YouDomenic P.CroceCroce Rod Co.1- 26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com I've found the Corticelli silk to be excellent for larger rods. At $2.75 bargain. (Although I once bought it at $0.35 per spool.)Reed from sats@gte.net Sat May 3 20:44:34 1997 Subject: Re: Denver Bill is back She even gladly took the aniversy cane rod I made for her and I gave her the rod the first week in March...March 15 was our third aniversy.I asked her why she took the rod if she had wanted a devorce for a long time so she said. Her responce was " it was a beautiful thing" You lucked out, in only investing 3 years with her. And she even gave you a compliment on the way out the door. Sorry aboutthetip. I've been told that's how most rods come to grief . Terry Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from devino@inlink.com Sat May 3 20:50:08 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id UAA20514 for Subject: Re: Horrocks-Ibbottson ID? At 07:18 PM 5/3/97 -0700, Mike Ray said something like: Obviously, Mark, this is the finest piece of fishing equipment producedthis half century. Accordingly, you will have no need for your otherClark rod which I will be glad to take off your hands for the same $35. Please ship it to me ASAP by Federal Express. I unders from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 3 21:45:03 1997 Subject: Re: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration. In a message dated 97-05-03 09:50:07 EDT, you write: Subj: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration.Date: 97-05-03 09:50:07 EDTFrom: m.boretti@agonet.it (Boretti Marco)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Dear Friends,I must restore an old Hardy Fly Rod, Phantom 6'10" line 5, the snke guideare wrapped in Black tipped Red color.What type, size and color of Nylon must I use ?Do I owe besides use a color preserve ?Could I have a help ?Sincerely, Marco Boretti. Marco, I think the original thread is silk and you can still buy silk thread torewrap this rod. Silk will lie down better than nylon and look like theoriginal wraps. The black is easy - black. Red comes in several stades of red and youmightneed to purchase several spoons to find the proper match. Try Angler's Workshop in Washington state for silk thread. They sell it insize 50 ("A") and size 100 (3/0). The size 100 is the smallest dia. stuffforintermediate wraps. http://www.anglersworkshop.com Or try Belvoirdale (note he has the sizes reversed on his web page anddoesn't seem to know which is which when you talk to him). Tell him largeorsmall dia. and you'll get the correct stuff. http://www.netreach.net/company/belvoirdale/ Good luck rebuilding this rod. Don Burns from domenic1@ix.netcom.com Sun May 4 00:31:07 1997 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 1997 01:29:49 -0400 Subject: RE: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK =_NextPart_000_01BC582A.A82B1E00" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC582A.A82B1E00 ---------- Subject: RE: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK Hi,I am interested in some of your silk thread, please send info andprices.ThanksMike ----------From: Domenic Croce[SMTP:domenic1@ix.netcom.com]Sent: Saturday, May 03, 1997 10:22 AM Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,ifanyone is interested please e mailor call me.Thank You Domenic P.Croce Croce Rod Co.1-26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com Michael,please e mail me with your e mail adress and I will send you a list ofcolorsand prices. Domenic ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC582A.A82B1E00 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC582A.A82B1E00-- from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun May 4 01:53:00 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA03542 for; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:54:55 -0200 Subject: Risp: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration. Hi Don,Thank for your information.Marco ----------Da: Canerods@aol.comA: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: domenica 4 maggio 1997 4.43 In a message dated 97-05-03 09:50:07 EDT, you write: Subj: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration.Date: 97-05-03 09:50:07 EDTFrom: m.boretti@agonet.it (Boretti Marco)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Dear Friends,I must restore an old Hardy Fly Rod, Phantom 6'10" line 5, the snkeguideare wrapped in Black tipped Red color.What type, size and color of Nylon must I use ?Do I owe besides use a color preserve ?Could I have a help ?Sincerely, Marco Boretti. Marco, I think the original thread is silk and you can still buy silk thread torewrap this rod. Silk will lie down better than nylon and look like theoriginal wraps. The black is easy - black. Red comes in several stades of red and youmightneed to purchase several spoons to find the proper match. Try Angler's Workshop in Washington state for silk thread. They sell itinsize 50 ("A") and size 100 (3/0). The size 100 is the smallest dia. stuffforintermediate wraps. http://www.anglersworkshop.com Or try Belvoirdale (note he has the sizes reversed on his web page anddoesn't seem to know which is which when you talk to him). Tell himlargeorsmall dia. and you'll get the correct stuff. http://www.netreach.net/company/belvoirdale/ Good luck rebuilding this rod. Don Burns from SCHURDLU@aol.com Sun May 4 02:43:03 1997 Subject: How to identify a rod I have a 7 1/2-foot two-piece rod that appears to be very old. The nameonit isBernard & Son, St. James, London SW. Can anyone tell me where to find outabout the maker? Also have a 9 1/2-foot rod with two tips. It's completewith four-pocket rod holder and fabric case. There's no name on it. I livein Santa Clara, California.Is there anyone in my area who might be able to help me identify themaker? Gary Williamsschurdlu@aol.com from cparham@crocker.com Sun May 4 07:57:10 1997 rmc1.crocker.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA09056 for; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:58:02 GMT Subject: Re: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK Reed F. Curry wrote: Domenic Croce wrote:From: Domenic Croce[SMTP:domenic1@ix.netcom.com]Sent: Saturday, May 03, 1997 10:22 AM Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,ifanyone is interested please e mailor call me.Thank YouDomenic P.CroceCroce Rod Co.1- 26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com I've found the Corticelli silk to be excellent for larger rods. At $2.75 bargain. (Although I once bought it at $0.35 per spool.)ReedI worked for Belding in the 70's dyeing the silk thread. I used to pick up a spool or two that failed QA because of color match. How I wish I had it all now. from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun May 4 11:31:59 1997 MAA29928 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:31:55 - Subject: Paper Airplanes To the list, 5/3/97I was on the traditional rod design track for over twenty years. If anyonedoubts this look up my article "Bamboo Rods in the Space Age" in the March1971 issue of FLYFISHERMAN Magazine. (Yes, Virginia, we did do spacework in71. In fact one of my inventions from that era sits on the moon's surfaceasof now). I graphed dozensof rods and rigged up an optical comparator to pick out the good and badtaper features, making real progress with trial and error designs, andwhenMr. G and Son-of -Stardust hit the street it was very satisfying to findthat Mr. G's engineered tapers closely approximated those that I hadarrivedat empirically and independently. But what I remember from all that earlyeffort is the number of hours spent in making less-than- wonderful rods.Andthat in a few(?)words is the reason I use stress curves today. If you makepaper airplanes, trial and error is fine. If you choose to make cane rodsit's too darned wasteful of time and effort.Now back to the Hendricksons. Bill from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun May 4 15:01:01 1997 Subject: Rod design Several days ago someone wrote about rods "breaking on the first cast",implying this could be the fate of rods designed by methods other than Mr.G's stress curve. I don't wish to prolong this debate but cannot leave thatremark unchallenged. The following were designed using my own method:No. 1 - 9' 8 wt., sold to Jerry, one of the best steelheaders anywhere, in1980. Used to catch in excess of 100 steelhead, some to 25 pounds.No. 2 - 9' 8 wt., slightly faster than No. 1, traded to Bill for a radialarm saw in 1983. He and I fished together until his death in '95 and I knowfirst hand he caught more than 200 steelhead with it. Friend Ron now hasitand last August in a 5 day period beached 13 steelhead to 18 pounds.No. 3 - 9' 7 wt. designed and built in 1985 specially for Mac who wanted aslower rod that would be slightly underlined with a 7 line. Immediatelybecame his favorite for steelhead and for salmon off the beach of hisVancouver Island home. Not sure of the numbers, but in dozens of trips Iwitnessed he was rarely skunked.No. 4 - 8'9" 7 wt. modified by my method from a Garrison 221, built in'82. My favorite for summer steelhead. Score is well over 100 to 12pounds.Not bad for one-tip rods. In 20+ years and about 80 rods, the only rod ofmine that has broken came out second best in an encounter with a screendoor. What does this prove? Just this -- damn good rods that will withstandheavyuse can be designed without a stress curve.And this is my last word on this topic. (Did you say "Thankfully?")John from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun May 4 15:01:03 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design ----------From: FISHWOOL@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod designDate: Friday, May 02, 1997 12:29 PM Hey John,I've seen a lot of the Virtual Fisherpersons crowding the streams - they're all decked out ln everything in the Orvis,etc. catalogue andcan'tfish worth shucks, they just crowd you if you're catching anything. Asfar asrod design goes it really don't make no never mind, as long as we getwhat wewant in an action.Consistency is the main thing-Ive seen some beautifulrodsmade from hexrod-it just ain't my way-I'll use it to check a new taperagainst an old one if I think I'm on the edge of too much stress. Hank. P.S. John B., Are you still havin' fun? Sure am. Now, about this word "parabolic"....JB from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Sun May 4 17:15:45 1997 Subject: Re: Paper Airplanes Bill Fink wrote: To the list, 5/3/97I was on the traditional rod design track for over twenty years. If anyonedoubts this look up my article "Bamboo Rods in the Space Age" in theMarch1971 issue of FLYFISHERMAN Magazine. (Yes, Virginia, we did do spacework in71. In fact one of my inventions from that era sits on the moon's surfaceasof now). I graphed dozensof rods and rigged up an optical comparator to pick out the good and badtaper features, making real progress with trial and error designs, andwhenMr. G and Son-of -Stardust hit the street it was very satisfying to findthat Mr. G's engineered tapers closely approximated those that I hadarrivedat empirically and independently. But what I remember from all thatearlyeffort is the number of hours spent in making less-than- wonderful rods.Andthat in a few(?)words is the reason I use stress curves today. If youmakepaper airplanes, trial and error is fine. If you choose to make cane rodsit's too darned wasteful of time and effort.Now back to the Hendricksons. BillBill Would you believe that the taper for the butt section of my first rodwas from the taper you had behind you in the picture accompaning yourartickle. You didn't have a tip taper shown so I had to work that outmyself, empiracally. The rod looked like hell, but it was a sweetcasting rod. Thank You for the lift. Ralph Moon from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun May 4 20:38:22 1997 Subject: Re: Walter Brunner Fly Rods. Marco Hello seen your post on the rod builders list and thought that l would sendyou a note . l hope that all is well with you and your family . Spring hascome to Oregon the rivers are high but still fishable we have had a verywetyear . l went out last weekend to the Deschutes river .lt is a large stream300 meters across and some places the fish are rainbows in the 10 -18inchrange . This strain of rainbows is called redside it is native to the easternpart of Oregon . l had to try out a new rod 7.5ft 4 wt got a few fish hadsome real nice weather and a good time . Not much of a fish story l knowbutl should have some tall tale to tell by summer . Best Regards Gary from sats@gte.net Sun May 4 20:41:59 1997 Subject: Re: Am I talking total garbage? You can talk plainly to me. John Cooper (England) John, A very interesting post. I've come to the conclusion that "Sets" in bamboorodsare not from fighting large fish. (Oh, Okay, some of them could be). Butmostfishermen didn't catch fish that big, that often. If bamboo could take a setjust by fighting a fish then I should be able to take the set out by applyingabout the same pressure pressure in the opposite direction for about 5minutes.I haven't tried this but I don't think it would cure the problem. (might justgive it a whack. I thought that maybe the difference in the sections glued together could,overtime expand and contract, much like a house thermostat. I don't know, allthesets seem to go in the same direction. Is it along the spline?? We know that rods that set proped up against a wall for some period oftime DOtake a set. How long?? I don't know. Most of the rods I've come in contactwith, have a checkered history, so I don't know what their lenage is... I have tried straightning rods by placing them in a "jig" for some period ofweeks. It doesn't seem to do much good.?!? Terry Kirkpatrick Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun May 4 21:21:00 1997 Subject: Re: Walter Brunner Fly Rods. Sorry that last message was not supposed to go here got to learn to checkwere lam sending things it could get me in trouble someday . Thanks Gary from Canerods@aol.com Sun May 4 21:51:45 1997 Subject: Re: Horrocks-Ibbottson ID? In a message dated 97-05-03 20:02:02 EDT, you write: * Length overall is nine feet* Three piece, two identical tips* Reelseat is an all metal downlocking sliding band. It's plated brass* Grip is 4 1/2" sort of exaggerated full wells. Appears tobe solid cork, 1" rings. A rodent has chewed part of it.* Stripper guide is missing* Ferrules are rolled welt with two shallow ringscut in near the base.* Guide wraps are red, tipped in black* "Intermediates" on the butt section are a red wrap with two olive or yellow colored wraps spaced 3/8" away on either side.* Intermediates on the mid and tips are evenly spaced alternatingolive (or yellow) and red. Thanks to the list in advance for any commentary you may have on thisrod.I have no clue what I'm going to do with it. It could end up on the wall instrument. Then again a big ole' heavy nine foot rod may make meappreciate my other cane rod more. Who knows? -=Mark=- With the rolled welts, 1" cork rings and plated brass reelseat spacer - I'dsay a low end rod. At 9' too long for much value today. Buy it cheap andmakea banty rod out of the mid and tips. Don Burns from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun May 4 22:51:28 1997 Subject: Boat - Grayrock Logo - Design boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.21145.emout14.mail.aol.com.862804250" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.21145.emout14.mail.aol.com.862804250 Well another long weekend - The Judge's boat is back looking like a boat-a few more hours and the outside glass will be repaired - A re-launchpartyis scheduled in two week. We also retrieved a second plank boat from thedebirs - the impact of the falling roof pulverized the back half of the boat- we gathered up all the slivers and brought the boat home to store in ourbarn - it'll be a couple of years before I can even think of restoration.Attached is the design that was created for the aprons for Grayrock - itajpg file I hope you can all view. If there are no objections I will be givingthe screen printed the go ahead to produce 60 aprons - last year therewere50 or so and I hope to have a few spares incase some one wants more thanone. The karma is that the group will grow a bit this year - a mailing isgoing out at the end of the week. A straw poll might be helpful - Couldthoseintending attending please - e-mail me off the list (WayneCatt@aol.com)andin case you have an extra $20 that you would like to register with you can Wayne Cattanach15315 Apple AveCasnovia, MI 49318 A while back I was asked if I had any further information on rod designusing hexrod - so for the last bit I have been putting some thoughtstogether- sort of a users guide and instructions - some is a rehash of earlierpostings of the correctness of the program. The goal is to finish this textin a couple of weeks - at which time I'm sending it off for John B to use orwhatever for a presentation at the Grand River gathering. For those thatmaynot be attending I will post if the desire is there - caution!!! - it isgetting a bit lenghty ( 24 pages in WP5 ) and I'm still showing examples ofthe program use. I will be printing it for part of the handout packet forGrayrock and will have disks of the program and taper data base as well. In the past I have always felt that rod design was a earned thing -through stream experience and at the workbench creating the differentrods.My attitude hasn't changed. I don't foresee a day that a computer programorother technique will 'just spit it out'. Yes - with a big enough data base itcould be fairly close to that - but I think at that point the individual ismissing out. The reason the text is so sparse in my book is a reflection ofthat attitude - Here is a tool explore with it - investigate and develop. There are a couple of areas of this craft that I am shoared in - nodedconstruction and mr G's curve idea. But - I am not going to get ruffled ifthere are other ideas come down the phone line. As I explained earlier I'msofar into both that changing either would be a major uprooting. I set asignature with my rods that I need to maintain and I have seen the resultsofthe other. For those starting out I will always encourage the testing ofnew Lastly - I have only recieved a few requests for ferrules and such -Iwill be ordering those items in another 2 weeks so that they will beavailable at Grayrock. I have sent return e-mails to those that sent - Ifyouhaven't recieved a response please resent your request - You know the AOLthing. Wayne --PART.BOUNDARY.0.21145.emout14.mail.aol.com.862804250 name="GRAYRCK.JPG" 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--PART.BOUNDARY.0.21145.emout14.mail.aol.com.862804250-- from mrj@seanet.com Mon May 5 00:15:22 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA03133 for Subject: Re: Walter Brunner Fly Rods. GLohkamp@aol.com wrote: Sorry that last message was not supposed to go here got to learn tocheckwere lam sending things it could get me in trouble someday . Thanks Gary Don't worry. As long as you send a good fishing report like you did Iwon't mind.-- Martin Jensen from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 5 09:11:46 1997 ESMTP id JAA11611 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA16405 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id VNOLAJAK; Mon,5 May 1997 09:11:10 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Re: 15% discount on Sherline lathes Jon Lintvet: Sorry for the delay but I am also interested in possibly going in on theSherline deal. So, how much better than 15% off can you do? Just Interested,Don DeLoach from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 5 09:19:59 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 07:19:38 -0700 Subject: stuff 4.0.994.63 Gentlemen First things first, Wayne I ordered one of your oven kits 6 monthsago,and my email inquiries don't seem to be reaching you, anyhow just afriendly little reminder to let you know that I'm am still waiting butam getting to the point that I need it soon.Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and first ofall he doesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the40's,50's and 60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He saidthe cane today isn't worth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that hehasn't had any cane that he would buy for the last two years. Said heknows the Chinese family that supplies it and they are no longer growingany but are just scavenging cane that they can find. How true this is Idon't know. He did say that if it was him he would only by the 1 3/4" to2" cane because the smaller diameter cane has more and better powerfibers. His suggestion was to buy all the good cane one gets a chance atbecause before long all that will be available will be garbage.I asked him if he could advise me on cooking cane and both he and hisson said that he had worked out what they considered the ideal times andtemperatures. I asked if this was a secret or would he mind telling mein that I was a ameture maker and was seeking help and information. Thisis the temperatures and times he gave me:250 degrees 1 1/2 - 2 hours300 degrees 1 hour375-400 degrees 30 minutes Having never had the opportunity to play with one of his rods I'm notenough of a expert to say one way or another if he knows what he'stalking about other than going by his reputation. Patrick from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 5 09:20:17 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: J shaped oven I put the finishing touches to my cane oven this weekend. Derived from Frank Neunemann's design (one tube inside the other) it's very simple to make and avoids potential overheating of the heat gun. A J shaped tube is fashioned out of galvanized steel pipe conduit - Home Depot sells double wall conduit which costs more but greatly reduces the risk of burns. The long end of the J is 5' tall, the short 2.5 feet. The Bosch 1945LED heat gun (superb tool with great ergonomics - about$110) goes in the short end with some flash shrouding for support and sealing. The J is fastened to a scrap wood stand with stand-off pipe connnectorsto minimize heating/fire risk. The U in the base of the J uses flexible metal hose, from the same store. Set at position 13 out of 15 at blower speed 4, a cheap MSC thermometer ( from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 5 09:33:24 1997 ESMTP id JAA17351 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA24811 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id FKOHBXBA; Mon,5 May 1997 09:32:49 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: basic question: lathes Dumb Question: I don't know anything about lathes, so here goes. How many different kinds of lathes are there? I mean, the kind with athree jawchuck (external--like a hand drill) is one kind right? How about the oneWayneuses in his video--it has an "internal" chuck that enables him to put thewholerod shaft thru and mount it, say, just above the cork to shape the handleforinstance. Is one of these a wood lathe and one a metalworking lathe? Itseemslike the kind Wayne uses in the video would be a heck of a lot more usefulforrod making. In all my catalogs (grizzley, alden, enco) I can't find this styleof lathe offered by any manufacturer. Does Sherline offer this style oflathe? Another question, this time subjective: what is the best all around latheforminimum rodbuilding puposes (turning handles and ferrule stations)? Willjustone lathe do it all? Sorry for bandwidth suckage, but we never got to the lathe (or the routertable) in seventh grade wood shop--our teacher was kinda slow and it wasa bigclass! Don D. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 5 09:40:08 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 07:38:39 -0700 Subject: FW: stuff 4.0.994.63 ----------From: Coffey, Patrick WSent: Monday, May 05, 1997 7:00 AM Subject: stuff Gentlemen First things first, Wayne I ordered one of your oven kits 6 monthsago, andmy email inquiries don't seem to be reaching you, anyhow just a friendlylittle reminder to let you know that I'm am still waiting but am gettingtothe point that I need it soon.Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and first ofall hedoesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the 40's,50'sand60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He said the cane todayisn'tworth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that he hasn't had any canethathe would buy for the last two years. Said he knows the Chinese familythatsupplies it and they are no longer growing any but are just scavengingcanethat they can find. How true this is I don't know. He did say that if it washim he would only by the 1 3/4" to 2" cane because the smaller diametercanehas more and better power fibers. His suggestion was to buy all the goodcaneone gets a chance at because before long all that will be available will begarbage.I asked him if he could advise me on cooking cane and both he and hissonsaid that he had worked out what they considered the ideal times andtemperatures. I asked if this was a secret or would he mind telling me inthat I was a ameture maker and was seeking help and information. This isthetemperatures and times he gave me:250 degrees 1 1/2 - 2 hours300 degrees 1 hour375-400 degrees 30 minutes Having never had the opportunity to play with one of his rods I'm notenoughof a expert to say one way or another if he knows what he's talking aboutother than going by his reputation. Patrick from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Mon May 5 09:44:40 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: J shaped oven Thomas, Is there a drawing of this oven design around anywhere? Bob Matarazzo from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 5 09:50:21 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: J oven time/temp I forgot to mention results of my first experiments. 15 minutes at 180C (356F) yields a dark honey color once the enamel is removed. ThomasP@nacm.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon May 5 09:56:00 1997 Subject: Re: basic question: lathes Don - Most, but not all, lathes have the hollow headstock you refer to as aninternal chuck. Actually, the chuck is a removeable accessory to the lathe. one. Make sure it has a hollow headstock with at least 3/8" ID, and a longenough bed to turn the longest handle you expect to make. Don't forgetaboutbutt extensions. I used a Sears model for many years before I came acrossmymetalworking lathe. -- Tom from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 5 11:13:03 1997 ESMTP id LAA06736 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA05119 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id XOQLADCT; Mon,5 May 1997 11:12:00 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Resorcinol I was at the Orvis (ugh) store the other day to look at the two REAL rodstheyhad there (sitting, blasphemously, alongside a sea of plastic poles). I wasadmiring the details and noticed the fabled purple glue line and realizedOrvismust use Resorcinol. I was surprised in that the rods weren't ugly at all,assome have said of Resorcinol rods. I actually was drawn to the look oftheseglue lines and now have decided to use Resorcinol on my first rod. So, anyone who has strong feelings about Resorcinol, please share yourthoughts, tips for working with it, etc. I know the number one drawback isthefifteen minute pot time--is this all? Also, can anyone tell me an inexpensive source for Resorcinol, in a verysmalltest quantity, for just one rod? ThanksDon from SalarFly@aol.com Mon May 5 11:36:04 1997 Subject: Re: Resorcinol In a message dated 97-05-05 12:25:39 EDT, you write: So, anyone who has strong feelings about Resorcinol, please share yourthoughts, tips for working with it, etc. I know the number one drawbackis thefifteen minute pot time--is this all? You can extend the pot time by icing it down. Get a large bowl and asmaller container - one of those frozen chicken pot pie containerswork fine. Fill the larger bowl with ice, put the smaller one on top ofthe ice, mix it in there. Pot life goes to at least 25 minutes. Also, can anyone tell me an inexpensive source for Resorcinol, in a very smalltest quantity, for just one rod? Most woodworking stores have Resorcinol, that's what it is primarilyused for. In my opinion, if you are going to go to the trouble of usingResorcinol, you might as well go to epoxy. Same amount ofwork, stronger bond. Darryl Hayashida from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Mon May 5 12:06:17 1997 2.0/2.12um) id JAA000.45; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:37:41 -0400 Subject: Re: basic question: lathes Hi Don: You need to only concern yourself with two basic lathe types; woodturning and metal cutting. Wood turning lathes are usually the less expensive alternative relative tosize (distance between centers and swing, the maximum diameter of the piece to beturned). Metal cutting lathes have a moveable carriage that holds anapron/toolpost/toolholder/cutting tool. This combination moves/feeds the cutting tool against the work. Wood lathesemploy a tool rest and and hand-held turning tools (gouges, scrapers, etc.) to do the cutting. Normally, both can use a 3 or 4-jaw chuck to grip the work. Lathes with a hollow spindle in the headstock are the rule for rodmakers. If you'll only be turning grips and ferrule stations you could get by with a wood lathenicely. Be sure to consider some type of support device for the unchucked portion of the rodto reduce "whip" as it revolves. Clemens shows one type among accessories for theirrodbuilder's lathes. Hope this is helpful. Regards, Rich Brown from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 5 12:53:08 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 10:52:46 -0700 Subject: cooking bamboo 4.0.994.63 Mr. Powell said that the reason he cooks his bamboo at 250 degreesbefore cranking it up to higher temperatures is the lower temperatureallows the moisture to cook out of the bamboo without turning to steam.He said that at a higher initial temperature the moisture turns to steamand ruptures the cell walls instead of escaping out the end of the tubes(power fibers are hollow tubes). Patrick from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 5 15:28:32 1997 ESMTP id PAA11567 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA02416 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id DIUCBLBS; Mon, 5May 1997 15:27:37 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Catskill gathering Is there a rodmakers gathering coming up in the Catskill region? Don from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon May 5 15:56:10 1997 Subject: Re: Resorcinol Don - Resourcinal is a good glue for your first rod for a few reasons. It iseasy to get, and reasonably easy to use, and it will show you yourmistakes. edges, which seem insignificant to a first timer will show up on the rodandyou will have a better idea what kind of quality standards to maintainnexttime. The only problem I have ever had with the stuff is that it tends todarken with age. You are liable to leave small traces of it on the rodsurface which are invisible, only to have them turn into purple splotches afew months later. Some people leave the enamel on the cane until aftertheyglue to avoid this. I don't always use the stuff, but I always have some inthe shop, it's a good glue.---Tom from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 5 16:39:06 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Octagonal rods I notice that the Fred Divine company makes mention of 8 sided rods in ads reprinted in Michael Sinclair's engrossing book "Fishing Rods by Divine". Anyone have any thoughts on the pros and cons of this approach? ThomasP@nacm.com from hood@hpesdah.fc.hp.com Mon May 5 17:17:38 1997 palrel1.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA25064 for (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA09237; Mon, 5 May 1997 16:17:30 -0600 Subject: Re: 4 vs 5 vs 6 Jorge,I have incorporated Garrison's equations into a spreadsheet that hasas an option the ability to graph tapers for rods with other than 6 sides.If you would like tapers (or corresponding stress curves for your equalcross section rods) I will be glad to produce them for you. Davidhood@fc.hp.com from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Mon May 5 17:42:00 1997 mail-oak-1.pilot.net with ESMTP id PAA11751 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA052862651; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:50:51- 0700 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00041DCC; Mon, 5 May 9715:48:19 -0700 Subject: Planing Forms Hello folks, As an all around metal head, (machinery, not music) I am humbled by the question I'm about to ask, but here goes... stone did you use to polish the steel? Wayne refers to an India Combination, but I am unable to locate one at the local hardware stores. I have some nice ceramic stones (probably too hard), a combination water stone (too soft), and can easily get Arkansas stones of varying grades. What grade and type of stones are you folks using on the metal forms? Thanks! L.D.Cross from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon May 5 17:50:57 1997 Subject: RE:Resorcinol RO>I was at the Orvis (ugh) store the other day to look at the two REALrods thRO>had there (sitting, blasphemously, alongside a sea of plastic poles). IwasRO>admiring the details and noticed the fabled purple glue line andrealized OrRO>must use Resorcinol. I was surprised in that the rods weren't ugly atall, aRO>some have said of Resorcinol rods. I actually was drawn to the look oftheseRO>glue lines and now have decided to use Resorcinol on my first rod. RO>So, anyone who has strong feelings about Resorcinol, please share yourRO>thoughts, tips for working with it, etc. I know the number onedrawback is tRO>fifteen minute pot time--is this all? RO>Also, can anyone tell me an inexpensive source for Resorcinol, in avery smaRO>test quantity, for just one rod? RO>ThanksRO>Don Don Try you local Home Depot store - or other good hardware outlet. Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 5 19:25:42 1997 Tue, 6 May 1997 08:25:32 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Resorcinol Hi Don, I was at the Orvis (ugh) store the other day to look at the two REAL rodstheyhad there (sitting, blasphemously, alongside a sea of plastic poles). Iwasadmiring the details and noticed the fabled purple glue line and realizedOrvismust use Resorcinol. I was surprised in that the rods weren't ugly at all,assome have said of Resorcinol rods. I actually was drawn to the look oftheseglue lines and now have decided to use Resorcinol on my first rod. I find resorcinol tends to define the shape nicely. I like to use blued guides and a bronze reel seat with a dark wood filler and the effect is pretty nice to my eyes. So, anyone who has strong feelings about Resorcinol, please share yourthoughts, tips for working with it, etc. I know the number one drawbackis thefifteen minute pot time--is this all? You should get better than 15 mins pot life. It's temp dependant and I've used it to glue rods here where it gets very hot without undue stress. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon May 5 19:37:41 1997 0000 Subject: REC Components i'm having trouble finding companies or catalogs who sell REC components.Do you have to order them factory direct? If so, should i contact them andask for a brochure? I have never used REC components, but have heard alotabout them. Figure I should try more companies other than Struble. Thanks Matt Leidermam (aka Blue-Winged Olive in VFS Chat Room) from burgould@mint.net Mon May 5 21:03:22 1997 mint.mint.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00471 for; Mon, 5 May 1997 22:03:19 -0400 Subject: Re: stuff Can anyone offer any addl. information on the cane situation discussedbelow? Is it really that bad? I was about to order some cane from Mr.Demarest. Should I reconsider? What do others think? Frantic in Bangor. Thanks, Bill. Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and first ofall he doesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the40's,50's and 60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He saidthe cane today isn't worth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that hehasn't had any cane that he would buy for the last two years. Said heknows the Chinese family that supplies it and they are no longer growingany but are just scavenging cane that they can find. How true this is Idon't know. He did say that if it was him he would only by the 1 3/4" to2" cane because the smaller diameter cane has more and better powerfibers. His suggestion was to buy all the good cane one gets a chance atbecause before long all that will be available will be garbage. from bokstrom@axionet.com Mon May 5 21:03:44 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components ----------From: Matt Leiderman Subject: REC ComponentsDate: Monday, May 05, 1997 5:37 PM i'm having trouble finding companies or catalogs who sell RECcomponents.Do you have to order them factory direct? If so, should i contact themandask for a brochure? I have never used REC components, but have heardalotabout them. Figure I should try more companies other than Struble. Thanks Matt Leidermam (aka Blue-Winged Olive in VFS Chat Room) Al Bellinger in Salem, OR makes beautiful reel seats in a wide variety. Tryhim at Bellinger Reel Seats Inc.2017 25th Street S.E.Salem, OR 97302-1130Phone 503-371-6151Fax 503-371-3771 John from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon May 5 23:42:46 1997 Subject: RE:REC Components RO>i'm having trouble finding companies or catalogs who sell RECcomponents.RO>Do you have to order them factory direct? If so, should i contact themandRO>ask for a brochure? I have never used REC components, but have heardalotRO>about them. Figure I should try more companies other than Struble. ThanksRO>for the help! RO>Matt Leidermam (aka Blue-Winged Olive in VFS Chat Room) MAtt, Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Tue May 6 00:44:56 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components In a message dated 97-05-06 01:41:12 EDT, you write: Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com I was just there yesterday, and asked about REC reelseatssince there are very few left on the hanger. John told me thatthey will not be carrying them any more, because REC isvery unreliable in delivery times. Darryl Hayashida from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue May 6 01:32:33 1997 Subject: Re: Catskill gathering Don DeLoach wrote: Is there a rodmakers gathering coming up in the Catskill region? Don Yes Don, there is going to be one.Usually the weekend after labor day.John from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue May 6 07:33:22 1997 Tue, 6 May 1997 20:32:59 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: REC Components On Tue, 6 May 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-05-06 01:41:12 EDT, you write: Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com I was just there yesterday, and asked about REC reelseatssince there are very few left on the hanger. John told me thatthey will not be carrying them any more, because REC isvery unreliable in delivery times. Darryl Hayashida I have Belvoirdale catalogue. Their gear looks good though I haven't actually seen any. Maybe worth a look? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from sleach@plessey.co.za Tue May 6 08:47:42 1997 15:45:53 +0200 via smap (V3.1) 6 May 97 16:02:17 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: Sherline lathes - Recomendation Please Could any of you give and opinion on which model Sherline lathewould be most suitable for the various aspects of rod building and, probably more important, which of the accessories are necessary (or even just nice to have.) Steve Leach from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue May 6 09:00:47 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA18752 for; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:00:44 -0400 Subject: Re: REC Components FWIW:The REC stuff I've seen is nice and the price is fair. Never had a problem with them, although they are practically in my backyard, as opposed to Darryl's backyard. Usual disclaimer - no financial interest,blah, blah, blah.(possibly a geographical bias though. ; ) Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from dryfly@erols.com Tue May 6 09:08:43 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components Matt Leiderman wrote: i'm having trouble finding companies or catalogs who sell RECcomponents.Do you have to order them factory direct? If so, should i contact themandask for a brochure? I have never used REC components, but have heardalotabout them. Figure I should try more companies other than Struble. Thanks Matt Leidermam (aka Blue-Winged Olive in VFS Chat Room) Matt I use REC componenets exclusively. REC recently changed hands, Alan andLinda Gnann are the new owners and they are trying to increase theircustomer base to include amateur rod builders. You can order direct from REC with no trouble. Tell Alan or Linda I told you to call. Theycan be reached at 860-749-3476. Bob Williams from dryfly@erols.com Tue May 6 09:11:09 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components Tony Young wrote: On Tue, 6 May 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-05-06 01:41:12 EDT, you write: Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com I was just there yesterday, and asked about REC reelseatssince there are very few left on the hanger. John told me thatthey will not be carrying them any more, because REC isvery unreliable in delivery times. Darryl Hayashida I have Belvoirdale catalogue. Their gear looks good though I haven'tactually seen any. Maybe worth a look? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/Very expensive, up near $100 per seat. from dryfly@erols.com Tue May 6 09:13:57 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-05-06 01:41:12 EDT, you write: Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com I was just there yesterday, and asked about REC reelseatssince there are very few left on the hanger. John told me thatthey will not be carrying them any more, because REC isvery unreliable in delivery times. Darryl Hayashida REC has new owners, Alan and Linda Gnann. 860-749-3476 They areserious about improving the service problems that existed with theprevious owner. from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue May 6 09:22:29 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA07946 for; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:22:27 -0400 Subject: Re: REC Components Hi Bob,Did REC move, weren't they from up here in Vermont? I use REC componenets exclusively. REC recently changed hands, AlanandLinda Gnann are the new owners and they are trying to increase theircustomer base to include amateur rod builders. You can order direct from REC with no trouble. Tell Alan or Linda I told you to call. Theycan be reached at 860-749-3476. Bob Williams Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from dryfly@erols.com Tue May 6 09:40:11 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components Thomas Ausfeld wrote: Hi Bob,Did REC move, weren't they from up here in Vermont? I use REC componenets exclusively. REC recently changed hands, AlanandLinda Gnann are the new owners and they are trying to increase theircustomer base to include amateur rod builders. You can order direct from REC with no trouble. Tell Alan or Linda I told you to call. Theycan be reached at 860-749-3476. Bob Williams Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering REC moved from Vermont to Connecticut. New address is as follows:REC Components72 Shaker RoadEnfield, CT 06082Ph 860-749-3476Fax 860-749-3478 from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue May 6 09:48:32 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Milward binder I did a first dry run with the Milward binder I made over the past weekend, using my first six strips. I'm building the Wayne C 7 foot 2 piece that Darryl H spoke so highly of recently. I must say it is compelling in its effectiveness; indeed, I found that my thread tension was too high, which resulted in one of the four threads snapping and the others being so tight on the cane that fine marks wereleft after removal! I'm using upholstery thread and a portable variable speed electric drill for power. A helper feeds the strips until I come up with some sort of motor/foot switch arrangement. Regards,ThomsP@nacm.com from maiello@yorku.ca Tue May 6 10:08:57 1997 (PNBboDs2MUwH6HHOh6NubAArnZGe59yE@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA14951 for ; Subject: Southbend Rods Someone asked me if I could take apart a southbend, and use the cane tobuild another rod with it. What kind of glue did they use? Could it behide glue? There are no blue lines, so its not resorcinol (sp?).Thanks in advance for any help.Mauro Aiello from SalarFly@aol.com Tue May 6 10:11:08 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components In a message dated 97-05-06 10:20:43 EDT, you write: REC has new owners, Alan and Linda Gnann. 860-749-3476 They areserious about improving the service problems that existed with theprevious owner. I'm glad to hear that. I really do like the reel seat, as a matter of factthe "flagship" 7ft. Cattanach taper of mine has a REC nickel silverreel seat with an excellent cocobolo wood insert. Darryl Hayashida from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Tue May 6 10:41:55 1997 2.0/2.12um) id IAA000.41; Tue, 6 May 1997 08:41:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Hi Lloyd: "India" is a tradename used by Norton Abrasives. Sources follow: Rutland Tool and Supply 1-800-289-4787Woodcraft 1- 800-225-1153Garrett Wade 1-800-221-2942 The Norton India Combination Bench stone comes in a two-grit "sandwich", Coarse (100 grit) and Fine (280 grit). These grit sizes are based on U.S. grit sizes, not Japanese. I would presume Wayne would be using the fine grit side to polish the forms. Hope you find this information useful. Regards, Rich Brown from santiago@ricochet.net Tue May 6 10:49:17 1997 IAA25961 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 08:49:11 - Subject: Wayne Catt... good morning wayne, i am checking through "rodmakers" listserv to see if you are receivingemail. i responded to your email about a month ago and haven't heardanything since. anyway, i will send a letter through smail with my requests and $. thanks, leo santiago@ricochet.netor206-440-2895 from mcalwill@fs.isu.edu Tue May 6 10:58:27 1997 SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA27230 for ; Tue, 6 Tue, 6 May 97 10:02:32 -0600 0600 Tue, 6 May 97 10:02:00 -0600 Subject: Rod Taper for steelhead Hi !!If anyone knows of a good taper for Steelhead I would sure appreciatethe help. Thanks, Will McAleese - Idaho from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue May 6 11:02:11 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Lie Nielsen low angle block plane The latyest Garrett Wade catalog shows a new Lie Nielsen plane design -it's the 12 degree low angle block plane they have made for a while, but this time with an adjustable mouth. Not cheap at $145, but my experience withthe LN 20 degree fixed mouth block plane and with their bodied scrapersuggests that these are superb tools. My question is whether the 12 degree angle is too low for bamboo planing- this would be the same as the angle in the Stanley 920, compared to the20 degree angle in the Stanley 9 1/2? ThomasP@nacm.com from mcalwill@fs.isu.edu Tue May 6 11:03:33 1997 SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA27334 for ; Tue, 6 Tue, 6 May 97 10:07:42 -0600 0600 Tue, 6 May 97 10:07:03 -0600 Subject: rod taper - steelhead Hi; If anyone has a taper for Steelhead I would appreciate the help. Thanks, Will McAleese from mrj@seanet.com Tue May 6 19:37:43 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21936 for Subject: Re: Milward binder Thomas Pindelski wrote: I did a first dry run with the Milward binder I made over the pastweekend,using my first six strips. I'm building the Wayne C 7 foot 2 piece thatDarryl H spoke so highly of recently. I must say it is compelling in its effectiveness; indeed, I found that mythread tension was too high, which resulted in one of the four threadssnapping and the others being so tight on the cane that fine marks wereleftafter removal! I'm using upholstery thread and a portable variable speed electric drillforpower. A helper feeds the strips until I come up with some sort ofmotor/foot switch arrangement. Regards,ThomsP@nacm.com Thomas,I have my milward binder running at about 100 rpm or so at the pullywheels. Maybe you are running faster? I have never found a foot switchnecessary at this speed. I have a foot switch that I could just plug inso it would be no problem if I wanted to. I do have an on off switchmounted on the base of the unit though. I set the thread tension with afishing scale and set it at about 2 or 4 lbs. for each thread. If youare breaking thread, than you probably have the tension set too high oryour tensioning devices are hanging up. -- Martin Jensen from mrj@seanet.com Tue May 6 19:47:58 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22167 for Subject: Re: stuff Elizabeth Burke wrote: Can anyone offer any addl. information on the cane situation discussedbelow? Is it really that bad? I was about to order some cane from Mr.Demarest. Should I reconsider? What do others think? Frantic in Bangor. Thanks, Bill. Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and firstofall he doesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the40's,50's and 60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He saidthe cane today isn't worth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that hehasn't had any cane that he would buy for the last two years. Said heknows the Chinese family that supplies it and they are no longergrowingany but are just scavenging cane that they can find. How true this is Idon't know. He did say that if it was him he would only by the 1 3/4" to2" cane because the smaller diameter cane has more and better powerfibers. His suggestion was to buy all the good cane one gets a chance atbecause before long all that will be available will be garbage. If you are starting rod building I would buy from Demerast. I haveboughtr two bundles from him in the recent past and basically been happywith them. The FIRST thing I would do is to put a split in them all theway dowm the length. Use a previous split if posslble. I have bought thelarger stuff in the past but after all the talk I would probably buy the1&3/4 stuff now. I think that the deal is, is that if you are making alot of rods, than you will get a lot of bamboo that you don't want tobother straightening or worring about bends. If you are learning thanyou should learn how to straighten bends and how to split properly, andwhat better way than with bamboo that has bends. I am taking my worstbamboo and making by all appearances, good rods out of it. By the time Iget really good, all I will have left will be primo stuff, the easystuff to work with.Hope this helps. You don't have a lot of options either.-- Martin Jensen from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 7 03:03:37 1997 Wed, 7 May 1997 16:03:02 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Sherline lathes - Recomendation Please I have the shorter bed model (4100 metric) and now think the longer bed would have been better.If you will be making screw type reel seats get the threading attachment though as I've mentioned before it's a bit fiddly though it works 100% once you get the hang of it.The knerling attachment is very good.I think there is also a tool rest so you can use wood turning chisels and if you don't have a wood lathe this would be good, but I think rigging something up wouldn't be too difficult.The attachment to allow the lathe to be converted into a milling machine may work ok, but I haven't bothered looking into it that much as it wont work as well as a purpos built milling machine Sherline also make. The lathe comes with a cutter as well as some tool steel so you can make your own cutters, but buy a center drill and a boring tool also.Without the center drill you wont drill neat holes and may break you drill bits and if you make reel seats you'll need the boring tool.That's all you need. I've found when turning ferrule stations that if you tightly bind the very end of the blank you can use the tailstock spindle to hold the blank while turning. Don't use too much presure on the tailstock or you'll split the blank, but enough will relieve stress on your part while performing this operation as it prevents the blank from running off centre when you apply the cutter.I've also found that a piece of wood with a small hole bored in it set at the correct height to allow the other end of the blank to enter and rest in will prevent the rod whipping about....too much.Take it slowwww and easy. Tony Could any of you give and opinion on which model Sherline lathewould be most suitable for the various aspects of rod building and, probably more important, which of the accessories are necessary (or even just nice to have.) Steve Leach /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 7 03:13:19 1997 Wed, 7 May 1997 16:12:46 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lie Nielsen low angle block plane On Tue, 6 May 1997, Thomas Pindelski wrote: The latyest Garrett Wade catalog shows a new Lie Nielsen plane design -it's the 12 degree low angle block plane they have made for a while, but this time with an adjustable mouth. Not cheap at $145, but my experiencewith the LN 20 degree fixed mouth block plane and with their bodied scrapersuggests that these are superb tools. My question is whether the 12 degree angle is too low for bambooplaning - this would be the same as the angle in the Stanley 920, compared to the20 degree angle in the Stanley 9 1/2? ThomasP@nacm.com I've been using a Stanley 60 1/2 which has the lower angle. I like it and wouldn't change. I think it's a case of getting used to things but I don't get the tear out problems people sometime associate with the 601/2 but I have a Hock iron which I keep sharp and don't try taking too much cane in each pass.LN use good steel and the tools are of the highest quality, I don't want to think about it too much or I'll be forced to go and buy one. Tony /**