from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 1 03:27:57 1997 Thu, 1 May 1997 16:27:43 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lathe speed On Thu, 1 May 1997 JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: What speed (rpms) is recommended when using a lathe to turn grips andferrulestations? Thanks in advance. smooth run, but for wood any speed from moderate to fast is usuallyalright but it depends on the type and how figured it is. Sanding cork, go as fast as you like also. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Jerry.Snider@UC.Edu Thu May 1 07:26:20 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes I certainly would be interested in the Sherline lathe. Keep me posted.At 06:24 PM 4/30/97 +0000, you wrote:I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathes but I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could get them at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else. I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However, they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Would anyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send for prices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean Jerry SniderProfessor of Biological Sciences andCurator of the Herbarium (CINC) Department of Biological SciencesP.O. Box 210006University of CincinnatiCincinnati, OH 45221-0006Phone: Office/Lab (513)556-9761e- mail: CINC@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDUhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Thu May 1 08:03:11 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA30783 for; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:03:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Same. I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathes but I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could get them at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else. I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However, they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Would anyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send for prices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 10:07:30 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 09:18:33 EDT, you write: Why use a stress curve to "represent an action in a rod on paper"? Theyaren't needed. It's much easier, simpler and safer to modify the actualtaper than to modify something that is twice removed by a mess ofcalculations. Because stress curves tell you a heck of a lot more than a graph of the diameters can. Check the archives over the last twomonths for a discussion on stress curves. Darryl Hayashida from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Thu May 1 10:18:05 1997 mail-oak-2.pilot.net with ESMTP id IAA27096 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA253770413; Thu, 1 May 1997 08:26:53- 0700 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 0003E75B; Thu, 1 May 9708:24:52 -0700 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon, I am looking to buy Sherline accessories for my small bench lathe. Many of these will fit with little or no modifications due to standard tool and taper sizes. I would also be very interested in their long-bed lathe. Please keep in touch. Regards, L.D.Crosslloyd.cross@clorox.comldcross3@worldnet.att.net (sorry for the bandwidth, as my cc-Mail does not give the address header) ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Sherline LathesAuthor: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu at Internet I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathes but I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could get them at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else. I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However, they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Would anyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send for prices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes you see something you were'nt noticing which makes you see something that isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from dbrady@got.net Thu May 1 11:31:06 1997 you.got.net (8.8.5/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA15356 for; Thu, 1 May 1997 09:21:31 -0700 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes John, I'm very interested in the Sherline lath. I've checked out theircatalog and the tool seems to fit the bill perfectly. Keep me posted onthe price and availability. Dennis,Santa Cruz, CA from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu May 1 11:33:43 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design John,I agree, now that I can run hexrod on my machine. After doing close to100 rods the last 20 years by graphing the tapers I think I can predictpretty closely the action for a given taper. The only thing the computermight do more quickly is give dimensions for a similar action when goingfromone length to another, although I can do it pretty well using graph paper.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu May 1 11:33:47 1997 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Same.Hank Woolman from bokstrom@axionet.com Thu May 1 11:56:05 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod design Date: Thursday, May 01, 1997 8:06 AM In a message dated 97-05-01 09:18:33 EDT, you write: Why use a stress curve to "represent an action in a rod on paper"? Theyaren't needed. It's much easier, simpler and safer to modify theactualtaper than to modify something that is twice removed by a mess ofcalculations. Because stress curves tell you a heck of a lot more than a graph of the diameters can. Check the archives over the last twomonths for a discussion on stress curves. Sorry, but I don't buy that. The stress curve concept of Mr. G. is a staticapproach to a dynamic situation and therefor cannot be correct. I'mstayingwith the engineers who don't agree with him. John from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu May 1 13:58:07 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id SAA19185 for; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:58:03 GMT Subject: Re: Rod design John Bokstrom wrote: ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod designDate: Wednesday, April 30, 1997 1:45 PM In a message dated 97-04-30 14:59:09 EDT, you write: theshortcomings of Mr. G's design method to come into the open, perhapsanindication of the well-deserved respect we all have for him. (big cut...) Bamboo, since it is a natural fiber, will not respond in theexact same way from culm to culm. It is much better to simplifyand spread your calculations over a broad range than to tryand pin down an exact response to some variable. Darryl Hayashida Why use a stress curve to "represent an action in a rod on paper"? Theyaren't needed. It's much easier, simpler and safer to modify the actualtaper than to modify something that is twice removed by a mess ofcalculations. John Bokstrom I think that leaving out the stress curve calculations could be a largemistake, one that might leave you with a fractured rod after the firstcast. The purpose of any stress curve is to determine wheather or notthe material being stressed can and will hold up to the moments ofinertial stress that it will normally be subjected to. With out thisinformation - construction becomes hit - or miss, hope it holds togetherguess work. When working in cane it is true that variances in the rawmaterial will occur but you will always have a base strength measurementto work from, the long fibers in cane vary mostly in number and length, the one major weak link- the joint. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 14:08:11 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 12:58:07 EDT, you write: Sorry, but I don't buy that. The stress curve concept of Mr. G. is a staticapproach to a dynamic situation and therefor cannot be correct. I'mstayingwith the engineers who don't agree with him. John Let's see... What can I do with a stress curve that I can't witha taper graph... With a stress curve you can tell what line weight should be used, and youcansee if going to a heavier line will over stress your rod. from the shape of the curve you can tell if a rod will be fast, slow,parabolic,or a strange variant action (check out the Leonard rod on Jerry Foster'swebpage). You can get an idea as to how the rod will roll cast. You can incorporate the weight of varnish, guides, ferrules, and the lengthof the line of your average cast into your taper design. You can duplicate an action of a rod for a different line weight or adifferentlength or both. You can simulate the effects of hollowing out the rod. You can find out how much the bamboo in a rod will weigh. You can change a two piece taper into a multipiece taperand still preserve the action. And maybe more, but that's all I can think of right now. Darryl Hayashida from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Thu May 1 15:12:16 1997 13:11:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod design Darryl: Weren't rod makers working these things out empirically way beforestresscurves? Yes, having a sound theory would eliminate the guess work andavoidhaving to iterate your work. But is the theory of stress curves asdevelopedso far the correct one? The other posts on this subject indicate that thetheory doesn't really apply to a dynamic system. Or has it been yourexperience that the static-based theory is adequate for rod design? Let's see... What can I do with a stress curve that I can't witha taper graph... With a stress curve you can tell what line weight should be used, and youcansee if going to a heavier line will over stress your rod. from the shape of the curve you can tell if a rod will be fast, slow,parabolic,or a strange variant action (check out the Leonard rod on Jerry Foster'swebpage). You can get an idea as to how the rod will roll cast. You can incorporate the weight of varnish, guides, ferrules, and the lengthof the line of your average cast into your taper design. You can duplicate an action of a rod for a different line weight or adifferentlength or both. You can simulate the effects of hollowing out the rod. You can find out how much the bamboo in a rod will weigh. You can change a two piece taper into a multipiece taperand still preserve the action. And maybe more, but that's all I can think of right now. Darryl Hayashida ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 12:15:53-0700 Subject: Re: Rod design from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu May 1 15:53:10 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Darryl, John et al, But what are the stresses? There are some big assumptions that rodstressover ???? are too much - says who? Garrison arbitarily assigns somestresses that shouldn't be exceeded. Do we assume that these are correctalso? After all, his math is questionable by some. Does Hexrod & othercomputer designs use similar "well I think these is the maximum stress"orhas someone developed a process of determining maximum stress. Wouldlike toknow. DonAnd yes I am a grapher - not computer literate enough to determinewhetherHexrod is for me. Appreciate that it works for others though. Thank God wedon't all do things the same way - we all would be married to the samewoman. At 15:50 01/05/97 -0800, you wrote:Darryl: Weren't rod makers working these things out empirically way beforestresscurves? Yes, having a sound theory would eliminate the guess work andavoidhaving to iterate your work. But is the theory of stress curves asdevelopedso far the correct one? The other posts on this subject indicate that thetheory doesn't really apply to a dynamic system. Or has it been yourexperience that the static-based theory is adequate for rod design? Let's see... What can I do with a stress curve that I can't witha taper graph... With a stress curve you can tell what line weight should be used, and youcansee if going to a heavier line will over stress your rod. from the shape of the curve you can tell if a rod will be fast, slow,parabolic,or a strange variant action (check out the Leonard rod on Jerry Foster'swebpage). You can get an idea as to how the rod will roll cast. You can incorporate the weight of varnish, guides, ferrules, and thelengthof the line of your average cast into your taper design. You can duplicate an action of a rod for a different line weight or adifferentlength or both. You can simulate the effects of hollowing out the rod. You can find out how much the bamboo in a rod will weigh. You can change a two piece taper into a multipiece taperand still preserve the action. And maybe more, but that's all I can think of right now. Darryl Hayashida ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------Received: by cpqm.saic.com with ADMIN;1 May 1997 12:15:40 -0800Return-Path: Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Thu, 1 May 9712:15:53-0700 Received: from emout08.mail.aol.com (emout08.mx.aol.com Received: ( from root@localhost) Message-Id: Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod design X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 1 16:04:18 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 14:04:14 -0700 Subject: attachment 4.0.994.63 gentleman is there still a attachment on my email or did I by chance figure outhow to eleminate it. Patrick from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu May 1 16:45:12 1997 Subject: RE:attachment RO>RO>gentleman is there still a attachment on my email or did I by chancefigureoutRO>how to eleminate it. RO>Patrick It's gone. Don B. from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Thu May 1 16:51:34 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA10758 Subject: Re: Rod design Don Andersen wrote: Darryl, John et al, But what are the stresses? There are some big assumptions that rodstressover ???? are too much - says who? Garrison arbitarily assigns somestresses that shouldn't be exceeded. Do we assume that these are correctalso? After all, his math is questionable by some. Does Hexrod & othercomputer designs use similar "well I think these is the maximum stress"orhas someone developed a process of determining maximum stress. Wouldlike toknow. DonAnd yes I am a grapher - not computer literate enough to determinewhetherHexrod is for me. Appreciate that it works for others though. Thank Godwedon't all do things the same way - we all would be married to the samewoman. The way you would figure out the maximum stress for bamboo is the sameas you sould figure it our for any material - you break it undercarefully controlled conditions. Knowing the cross sectionalcharacteristics of the test piece, the loading, and other relevantcriteria such as how you are holding the test piece, you can calculatethe stress at which the bamboo broke. A while back, I suggested makingsuch a test piece out of the same culm as the rod one is building. Itcould be a glued up, 12", non-tapered, hex piece for a hex rod, forinstance. That way one might make some predictions about the future rod. Note that this injects an element of engineering into an artisticprocess that many will get hives from just thinking about. Ultimatelyuseful? Who knows? Each should answer that for him- or herself. Best regards,Ed Estlow from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Thu May 1 16:59:28 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA15097 Subject: Re: Rod design John Bokstrom wrote: SNIP Sorry, but I don't buy that. The stress curve concept of Mr. G. is a staticapproach to a dynamic situation and therefor cannot be correct. I'mstayingwith the engineers who don't agree with him.John In structural engineering, static or dynamic, "correct" is a relativeterm. One uses varying degrees of approximation. Probably the realargument here is how close is our approximation. To be rigorouslycorrect, we'd all be doing higher order differential equations that makecalculations for a rendevoux with the moon look easy. So we resort toapproximations. If nothing else, they're a good starting point. One cancount any number of engineering approximations that work perfectly well quantum physics, for one. from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu May 1 17:31:59 1997 PAA18151 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 1 May 1997 15:31:25 - 0700 Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon, if the price is right, I'm interested. Thanks,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Apr 30 18:40:59 1997Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 18:25:29 -0700 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Martin Jensen Subject: Re: Sherline LathesMIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Win95; I)X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 974 Jon Lintvet wrote: I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathesbut I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could getthem at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else.I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However,they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Wouldanyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send forprices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman MacleanI would be interested. I haven't really paid much attention to thediscussion on the lathes though. I don't know if I could afford one. ButI'm still interested at this point. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu May 1 17:36:47 1997 SAA17272 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 18:38:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod design Hank The only real benefit I've found from the programs is to takea taper that my be on 6" centers and easily convert it to 5" centers withgood accuracy. After that - the taper is in the eye of the beholder. Regards Chris from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu May 1 17:54:53 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Perhaps it could be called a series of 'fudge' factors - less thatscientifically correct - whatever. But within reasonable bounds Mr G mathcanand does work for "fudging" several areas of rod design - 1)changing lineweight 2) changing from a 2 piece to 3 piece rod 3) illustrating differentrod characters a) a parabolic action - reversed J b) amplitude - which cancompare rod speeds.Are there better methods? perhaps - the test would be the percentageofoutcome predictability. Can I create a taper that is a correct line sizelower in a different ferrule arrangement than the original and have it castwith the same characteristic.I feel (emotion - not scientific) that I have been able to do this - butcan I explain all the elements - no.I think that you would all agree that no two rods can be exactly thesame- the material - components and many other factors come into play andwitheach having a window of error the combinations can represent twoextremes.The question is will a design system be as accurate as the total ofintolerances. If it is then it should work.I am convinced that Mr G had a file of tapers other than his own - justlike most of us do. And from this file he confirmed his formulas anddeveloped his curve to suit how he wanted to make his rods.There are other ideas and they may be better footed mathematically andI'm sure that there will be more to come as more minds enter into thecraft.Preferance - I chose to do what I'm doing. Just as others have spend yearsdesigning with their systems I have used Mr G's. If I were to change now Iwould be starting out fresh and unknowledged - throwing out severalyears ofthought and work.An illustration might be this - I'm told that the BETA video recordingsystem was better than the VHS version but because of some ' blue sky'VHSwon out for the consumer. Please understand too - this post was meant to deal with more of thegrassroots issues than to one design system over another. Wayne from jfoster@gte.net Thu May 1 18:22:03 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design I can't stand it any more... I think everyone, well... not everyone, but lots of us are missing thepoint.. Now that I've looked, a lot, at Wayne and G.'s math I'vepersonally come to the conclusion that the static, dynamic, imperical,arguments are bunk.. What's important to me is the fixed modelrelationship between a stress curve and FEEL. Hank and a few of you maybe able to look at a taper and determine the line wt. and action but I,and I assume, several others aren't in that league yet. So what does astress curve do for me? I can stick the taper in the program and relate what I see to rods Ihave made, or cast, or read about, and predict what the damn thingshould do. And to invert Terance's logic, ignor the humidity or fiberdensity, or whatever variables are also relevant, 'cause that, likehitting the numbers is in the hands of God and the builder anyway.If we know about modeling, that's what the program is for. Don't usethem if you don't want to but but at some point its like building a rodwithout a plane..Personally I think we owe Wayne, big time, for giving us a very valuabletool... Thank you Wayne...again Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Thu May 1 18:28:08 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Here here Wayne..I'd now like to retract my posting.. however I believe the better format is Hi 8 Jer from cbogart@shentel.net Thu May 1 18:32:19 1997 TAA17877 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 19:33:59 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod design Wayne Rod design by a steel driving man. There is no subsitute for for building rods to get a feel for tapers.The question that gets lost is can the man beat the machine. I think so.The grizzly old farts argueing for emperical methods seem to know whatnumbers work. The Hexrod program is really very simple programcompared to the complex programs that really are needed to do real rod design - OKmachine giveme a 6' 8" 3wt with good roll cast charateristics and delicatepresentation. See it just stared at me and looked stupid. I am sure that somebody willinvestthe time and effort to do real design - until then we are still in the stoneage andtrust the instincts of the old fart rod builder - each who has a particular the perfect rod for their fishing conditions. Right now there is no realsubsitute Regards Chris from jfoster@gte.net Thu May 1 18:43:44 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design See, Chris is right, you can't build you first rod until you haveexperience... Jer from GLohkamp@aol.com Thu May 1 19:02:42 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design l checked out stress curves because l wanted to know what all the fussisabout . l didnt see anything that was not based in guess work some wherealong the line . l dont need a stress curve to tell me the line weight or topredict the action a simple graph can do that for me .Besides l was taughtingrade school that a good math equation will work backwards as well asforwards when you work the math for a stress curve backwards you end upwithdifferent numbers ..go figure that one out . just thought l would jump in l really like this kind of thread.thanks Gary Lohkamp from geneh@telenet.net Thu May 1 19:07:39 1997 UAA29794 for ; Thu, 1 May 1997 20:09:02 - Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon, Keep me posted I too am interested. BTW I tried to send this to youprivately but it was bounced back. I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathesbut I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could getthem at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else.I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However,they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Wouldanyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send forprices and dealer information in the coming days. from mcreek@sirus.com Thu May 1 19:33:43 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design And boy would she be tired! Brian from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 1 19:51:48 1997 Fri, 2 May 1997 08:51:39 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Sherline Lathes Jon, seems you've opened the bottle on a jeanie. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from potterd@home.com Thu May 1 20:18:39 1997 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA20854 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS digest 606 I do not know if anyone would be interested in buy Sherline Lathes but I am looking into becoming a dealer. That way I could get them at wholesale prices and resell them for lower than anyone else. I do not believe they have a minimum retail selling price. However, they do not want to deal with someone that will only sell one. Would anyone be interested in buying a lathe. I am going to send for prices and dealer information in the coming days. Jon LintvetIthaca College Jon, I too could also be interested in a Sherline Lathe. Please let me know what info you find out regarding princing/ availability. Don ============================================================================== Don Potter== potterd@home.com== ============================================================================ from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu May 1 21:11:53 1997 mailfep1-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Rod design It's fun to read the mail on the many theories and opinions on the finepoints of rod design. But, listening to so many differing voices, onehas to wonder how many are actually planing the cane  and actuallybuilding rods. We are easily distracted by the many fine points of thisnoble pastime  isn't that part of it's charm. Surely, Mr. G and histheories of rod design leave much to be questioned  but, isn't thatpart of his lasting charm? I don't know about you guys, but, I stillprefer to fish with a rod and not a calculator in hand. And, I stillprefer to build my rods with a plane and not a computer. If you canfigure a less labor intensive way  please, e-mail me! Joe Loverti from bokstrom@axionet.com Thu May 1 22:18:53 1997 Subject: Rod Deezine Thanks everyone. I ain't had so much fun in a long time.John BokstromPS The next TPF will have my design method in it. Then those who wishcanthrow virtual tomatoes at me again. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu May 1 22:24:10 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design GLohkamp@aol.com wrote: l checked out stress curves because l wanted to know what all the fussisabout . l didnt see anything that was not based in guess work some wherealong the line . l dont need a stress curve to tell me the line weight or topredict the action a simple graph can do that for me .Besides l wastaught ingrade school that a good math equation will work backwards as well asforwards when you work the math for a stress curve backwards you endup withdifferent numbers ..go figure that one out . just thought l would jump in l really like this kind of thread.thanks Gary LohkampBelieve me Gary. All modeling is based upon guess-work.John from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu May 1 23:01:21 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design I agree that if you don't have much experience in building various tapersthat the current visualization of stress curves will keep you out oftrouble-but consider this-some of my finer tapered tips exceed Garrison'supper limit of 220,000 psi in compression and tension ACCORDING TOCURRENTSTRESS CURVES and using 45' of the given weight line. Two of these rods Ihave used heavily for at least 4 years in one case and 15 inthe other. Had Ilimited myself to the stress curve parameter I might not have designedthetapers. Where does this leave us? Still in never never land and we fallbackon expereience-some of it bad ( I've designed some godawfull tapers).Anywayjust an old man's $.02Hank from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 23:09:10 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 22:14:01 EDT, you write: See, Chris is right, you can't build you first rod until you haveexperience... ROTFL!!!! Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 23:34:21 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 20:27:50 EDT, you write: Weren't rod makers working these things out empirically way beforestresscurves? Yes, having a sound theory would eliminate the guess work andavoidhaving to iterate your work. But is the theory of stress curves as developedso far the correct one? The other posts on this subject indicate thatthetheory doesn't really apply to a dynamic system. Or has it been yourexperience that the static-based theory is adequate for rod design? Yes, rod makers were working things out empirically before stresscurves, but I would much rather be able to design a rod withouthaving to make a couple dozen first.I have actually made and casted, used, fished the rods that I graphed. from that experience I know what kind of rod will result from a graph.I went down the taper graph route a couple of years ago. I even wentas far as analyzing the slope of the line, taking the first and secondderivatives, but there is no way a taper graph can convey the informationa stress curve does. And, as I said a little while ago, what are we trying to accomplish here?A mathmatically correct formula, or a way to build a rod with an action you want? The formula may be wrong, but as long as it's wrong in thesame way all the time, and I can convey that graph to an action I'mtrying to get, then it's good enough for me. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 1 23:48:31 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-01 23:35:30 EDT, you write: Besides l was taught ingrade school that a good math equation will work backwards as well asforwards when you work the math for a stress curve backwards you endupwithdifferent numbers ..go figure that one out . Successive approximations don't give you the same numbers if youwork the equation backwards, unless you successivlely back calculate. Darryl from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri May 2 08:19:00 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-05-01 22:14:01 EDT, you write: See, Chris is right, you can't build you first rod until you haveexperience... ROTFL!!!! Darryl Again, I see great wisdom here or hear. If one shouldn't build a rod without experience, then let us form the SOVRM - the Society of Virtual RodMakers.So named because they can't make a rod. Even better, the Societ of Virtual Fisherpersons. That, indeed, would keep the streams uncrowded.John from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Fri May 2 09:13:17 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Sherline lathes Jon - I would be interested. Incidentally, I tried to private mail you a response to your Q on the Milward binder a while back and it bounced three times. You may like to check on your system. ThomasP@nacm.com from fernel@vaxa.cis.uwosh.edu Fri May 2 10:21:01 1997 rodmakers@mail.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: culms Demarest has only small diameter culms in stock. Orvis has largerdiameter($18/12'?). Orvis quality? Are there other sources? With the renewedinterest in bamboo rodmaking one would think new sources would besurfacing.At $15-$18/culm the horror stories of up to 50% unusable stock arefrightening to say the least! A short overview please. Thanks,Tom Chirko Laura FerneliusMathematics DepartmentUW Oshkoshfernel@uwosh.edu from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 2 10:38:58 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-02 09:20:53 EDT, you write: Again, I see great wisdom here or hear. If one shouldn't build a rodwithout experience, then let us form the SOVRM - the Society of Virtual RodMakers.So named because they can't make a rod. Even better, the Societ ofVirtual Fisherpersons. That, indeed, would keep the streams uncrowded. Anybody have the first rod they made? I do. And it's a humblingexperience to take it out and look at it. The third rod I made luckilywas the 7' 4wt Cattanach taper, and that experience hooked meinto this hobby. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 2 10:49:58 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-02 04:12:36 EDT, you write: onehas to wonder how many are actually planing the cane and actuallybuilding rods. I do both. Read a few postings, plane awhile, read a posting, plane, etc.A typical evening. Right now I'm working on a 6'2" 3 piece 2 wt. inpreparation for a backpacking trip in the Calif. Sierra Nevada Mtns.I want to backpack in the Golden Trout Wilderness and catch a Golden Trout. They run fairly small in the upper elevation lakes andstreams and the two wt. should be just right. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 2 11:03:56 1997 Subject: Re: culms In a message dated 97-05-02 11:43:15 EDT, you write: At $15-$18/culm the horror stories of up to 50% unusable stock arefrightening to say the least! A short overview please. At $15-$18/culm the cost of bamboo is the cheapest thing inmaking a rod. You can get at least 2, sometimes 3 or 4rods out of a culm. Personally I've never had 50% rejectionof my bamboo. A few odd strips every now and again, butnever 50%. The smaller diameter is fine. You'll just neverget that extra 3rd or 4th rod out of the culm. Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri May 2 11:30:43 1997 Subject: RE:culms RO>Demarest has only small diameter culms in stock. Orvis has largerdiameterRO>($18/12'?). Orvis quality? Are there other sources? With therenewedRO>interest in bamboo rodmaking one would think new sources would besurfacing.RO>At $15-$18/culm the horror stories of up to 50% unusable stock areRO>frightening to say the least! A short overview please. RO>Thanks,RO>Tom Chirko RO>Laura FerneliusRO>Mathematics DepartmentRO>UW OshkoshRO>fernel@uwosh.edu Some time last year my FFing club had the present Mr. Powell (Powellrods) as the monthly guest speaker. He was talking about their bamboostocks - they still have 1000's of culms from the pre-embargo timeperiod. I don't know if they'll sell any of them - somebody interested mightwant to ask. Don Burns from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Fri May 2 12:47:54 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: 15% discount on Sherline lathes Check out this site for a 15% discount - Jon Lintvet - can you beat this? http://www.mortonmachinery.com/sherline.html from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri May 2 14:03:57 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 May 1997 15:04:31 EDT Subject: Re: 15% discount on Sherline lathes rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu The 15% is on cash sales only....and yes I can beat it. The only reason I am becoming a dealer is to buy one for myself. So, I really don't care if I am making any money....just want to cover the costs. On 2 May 97 at 10:42, Thomas Pindelski wrote: Check out this site for a 15% discount - Jon Lintvet - can you beat this? http://www.mortonmachinery.com/sherline.html Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 2 14:29:37 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Hey John,I've seen a lot of the Virtual Fisherpersons crowding the streams - they're all decked out ln everything in the Orvis,etc. catalogue and can'tfish worth shucks, they just crowd you if you're catching anything. As farasrod design goes it really don't make no never mind, as long as we get whatwewant in an action.Consistency is the main thing-Ive seen some beautifulrodsmade from hexrod-it just ain't my way-I'll use it to check a new taperagainst an old one if I think I'm on the edge of too much stress. Hank. P.S. John B., Are you still havin' fun? from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Fri May 2 15:15:41 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 2 May 1997 16:16:29 EDT Subject: Re: 15% discount on Sherline lathes I wanted to take a minute and apologize for taking up the band width. I am trying to keep my responses off the list serve. My initial intention was to find out if anyone would be interested. If anyone has questions or comments in the future, please mail them to me directly. Thanks...and sorry again. The 15% is on cash sales only....and yes I can beat it. The only reason I am becoming a dealer is to buy one for myself. So, I really don't care if I am making any money....just want to cover the costs. Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from mrj@seanet.com Fri May 2 15:17:51 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12564 for Subject: Re: attachment Coffey, Patrick W wrote: gentleman is there still a attachment on my email or did I by chance figure outhow to eleminate it. PatrickIt's not there. Good job from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri May 2 15:58:54 1997 Subject: Triple Convex In some past post I have mentioned 'hinges' - will in putting togethersome ideas a few nights ago I reread Vince M's In The Ring of The Rise -It'sbeen a few years. Anyway on page 55 he talks of a triple convex taper -andin looking at the illustration just quess what the convexing will give you.Well, it's off to Grayrock again this weekend - a tragic happening of amonth ago - there were two riverboats stored in a garage - well the roofkinda collapsed and pancaked the boats. So for the next couple of years Iwill be jigsaw puzzling a plank boat back together again. Ya know Chris,thismight be your chance - I think that we might be able to cram the piecesintoyour trunk for the trip back home - we could throw in a picture or two togive you the general idea of what it should look like if successfullyrebuilt. Wayne from mcreek@sirus.com Fri May 2 16:21:42 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design yeah. what he said! Brian from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri May 2 16:28:21 1997 ESMTP id QAA02059 for ; Fri, 2 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id QAA01272 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id RMVCBFBD; Fri, 2May 1997 16:27:31 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Binder kits and oven kits Wayne: I am interested in your binder and oven kits you mentioned a few monthsback(December I think). Do you have any left, and can you ship them? How mucharethey? I sent you a message about this a few weeks back that may have nevergotten toyou. Jerry Foster told me about the kits. Thanks in Advance,Don DeLoachddeloach@ti.com from ghilbers@earthlink.net Fri May 2 17:46:14 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Know what you mean about 'Virtual Fisherpersons' decked out in thier newgear. We call it the Orvis hatch and it's usually coming off prettystrong about this time of year. Gary from jfoster@gte.net Fri May 2 19:18:51 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Ah Darryl Memories of Monanche Meadows.. No kill Jerry from jsbond@inforamp.net Fri May 2 21:25:15 1997 Subject: Re: attachment Thanks goodness, she's gone.....Cheers JB At 14:04 01/05/97 -0700, you wrote: gentleman is there still a attachment on my email or did I by chance figure outhow to eleminate it. Patrick James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from mrj@seanet.com Fri May 2 23:24:23 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25970; Fri, 2 May 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design Joe Loverti wrote: It's fun to read the mail on the many theories and opinions on the finepoints of rod design. But, listening to so many differing voices, onehas to wonder how many are actually planing the cane  and actuallybuilding rods. We are easily distracted by the many fine points of thisnoble pastime  isn't that part of it's charm. Surely, Mr. G and histheories of rod design leave much to be questioned  but, isn't thatpart of his lasting charm? I don't know about you guys, but, I stillprefer to fish with a rod and not a calculator in hand. And, I stillprefer to build my rods with a plane and not a computer. If you canfigure a less labor intensive way  please, e-mail me! Joe Loverti Jon,I'm guessing that your commas are being turned into the "N" as picturedabove. I think that this may be caused by a spell checker that makesfancy style commas and these cannot be handled by the e-mail. You mightcheck this out and if this is the case than maybe you can turn off thisfeature for your e-mail writing programs. from SalarFly@aol.com Sat May 3 00:25:55 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-02 23:06:18 EDT, you write: Ah Darryl Memories of Monanche Meadows.. Of course. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Sat May 3 00:56:25 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design In a message dated 97-05-03 00:37:33 EDT, you write: Subj: Re: Rod designDate: 97-05-03 00:37:33 EDTFrom: mcreek@sirus.com (brian & michelle creek) yeah. what he said! Brian Who? About what?It would make a little more sense If you would include something from the original post.... Darryl Hayashida from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat May 3 08:41:48 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA11657 for; Sat, 3 May 1997 15:43:40 -0200 Subject: Walter Brunner Fly Rods. Dear Friends, I am a collector of Walter Brunner Fly rods, the rodmaker it's fromAustria, and for me it's one of the best rodmakers.I search his rods in all model and condition, payment cash.Besides I am be glad send information at all the people want info aboutW.Brunner.I attend answer. Marco Boretti. from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat May 3 08:41:49 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id PAA11652 for; Sat, 3 May 1997 15:43:38 -0200 Subject: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration. Dear Friends,I must restore an old Hardy Fly Rod, Phantom 6'10" line 5, the snke guideare wrapped in Black tipped Red color.What type, size and color of Nylon must I use ?Do I owe besides use a color preserve ?Could I have a help ?Sincerely, Marco Boretti. from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sat May 3 08:42:36 1997 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: New address and phone number My new address is Bill HenselPOB 583Englewood, Co 80151 I am getting devorced and my Xwife will not forward any letters or fone calls to me. So please use the above mailing address. Also use the following telephone number if you must talk to me. It is a number at one of my franchises in Denver and I see the owner almost everyday. Indicate you are a rod maker and leave your number and I will call you later at my exspense. Telephone number is 1-303-420-7797 the business anme is Tracys karate studios so dont freak out and think you have the wrong number. Tight Lines, Bill from cbogart@shentel.net Sat May 3 09:12:53 1997 KAA04599 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 10:14:53 -0400 Subject: Re: Triple Convex Wayne A river boat is still on my list of to do's. With my work moving andme trying to get the house in town ready for sale it has been a hectic time.However, for the good news, I have plans for the new shop out by thecabinwith lots of room that will be done this fall. I have a friend and guidethatwill help me do the shop and boat over the winter and I should have oneready for next year - Now what I can bring back is some pieces to use asa template for mine! Regards Chris from domenic1@ix.netcom.com Sat May 3 10:25:32 1997 ix6.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 1997 11:24:46 -0400 Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK =_NextPart_000_01BC57B4.9B42B020" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC57B4.9B42B020 I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,if anyoneis interested please e mailor call me.Thank You Domenic P.Croce Croce Rod Co.1-26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC57B4.9B42B020 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC57B4.9B42B020-- from PATTEMI@mail.northgrum.com Sat May 3 11:16:37 1997 MAA17767 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 12:16:05 - MAA07469 for ; Sat, 3 May 1997 12:16:05 - mail1.essd.northgrum.com (8.8.4/8.7.1) with ESMTP id MAA09648 for (5.0.1457.3) Subject: RE: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK Hi,I am interested in some of your silk thread, please send info andprices.ThanksMike ----------From: Domenic Croce[SMTP:domenic1@ix.netcom.com]Sent: Saturday, May 03, 1997 10:22 AM Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,ifanyone is interested please e mailor call me.Thank You Domenic P.Croce Croce Rod Co.1-26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com from bx470@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sat May 3 14:36:04 1997 NAA03032; Sat, 3 May 1997 13:36:00 -0600 Subject: test I have not ben recieving the list. from devino@inlink.com Sat May 3 18:54:17 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id SAA05006 for Subject: Horrocks-Ibbottson ID? I was out in the country today and I bought myself an old cane rod at anantique place. At $35 (with old "cutaway" reel) I probably paid too much.I've been back and forth through Sinclairs book and can't yet get a handleon this rod's genre. I can positively tell you that it's an HI. There's abit of elongated diamond shaped Horrocks-Ibbotson label left. What's leftof the label, mostly on flats #6 and #2, is gold with black writing. The rest of the rod hardware is in bad shape. Excepting the tip-tops thereis only two snake guides left on this rod and they're in such bad shapethat I cannot tell if they were originally black or chrome. The cane looksgood to me. I know HI made some decent rods and I know they had some realbottom-of- the-barrel "brown baggers". If this rod is a real crapper I'llmake a wallhanger out of it. I know HI made a huge variety of rods. Here isas detailed a description: * Length overall is nine feet* Three piece, two identical tips* Reelseat is an all metal downlocking sliding band. It's plated brass* Grip is 4 1/2" sort of exaggerated full wells. Appears tobe solid cork, 1" rings. A rodent has chewed part of it.* Stripper guide is missing* Ferrules are rolled welt with two shallow ringscut in near the base.* Guide wraps are red, tipped in black* "Intermediates" on the butt section are a red wrap with two olive or yellow colored wraps spaced 3/8" away on either side.* Intermediates on the mid and tips are evenly spaced alternatingolive (or yellow) and red. Thanks to the list in advance for any commentary you may have on this rod.I have no clue what I'm going to do with it. It could end up on the wall instrument. Then again a big ole' heavy nine foot rod may make meappreciate my other cane rod more. Who knows? -=Mark=- from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Sat May 3 19:18:03 1997 ix5.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Horrocks-Ibbottson ID? Mark Devino wrote: I have no clue what I'm going to do with it. It could end up on the wall instrument. Then again a big ole' heavy nine foot rod may make meappreciate my other cane rod more. Who knows? Obviously, Mark, this is the finest piece of fishing equipment producedthis half century. Accordingly, you will have no need for your otherClark rod which I will be glad to take off your hands for the same $35. Please ship it to me ASAP by Federal Express. Mike -- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625 from rcurry@jlc.net Sat May 3 20:30:06 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA01883 for Subject: Re: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK Domenic Croce wrote:From: Domenic Croce[SMTP:domenic1@ix.netcom.com]Sent: Saturday, May 03, 1997 10:22 AM Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,ifanyone is interested please e mailor call me.Thank YouDomenic P.CroceCroce Rod Co.1- 26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com I've found the Corticelli silk to be excellent for larger rods. At $2.75 bargain. (Although I once bought it at $0.35 per spool.)Reed from sats@gte.net Sat May 3 20:44:34 1997 Subject: Re: Denver Bill is back She even gladly took the aniversy cane rod I made for her and I gave her the rod the first week in March...March 15 was our third aniversy.I asked her why she took the rod if she had wanted a devorce for a long time so she said. Her responce was " it was a beautiful thing" You lucked out, in only investing 3 years with her. And she even gave you a compliment on the way out the door. Sorry aboutthetip. I've been told that's how most rods come to grief . Terry Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from devino@inlink.com Sat May 3 20:50:08 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id UAA20514 for Subject: Re: Horrocks-Ibbottson ID? At 07:18 PM 5/3/97 -0700, Mike Ray said something like: Obviously, Mark, this is the finest piece of fishing equipment producedthis half century. Accordingly, you will have no need for your otherClark rod which I will be glad to take off your hands for the same $35. Please ship it to me ASAP by Federal Express. I unders from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 3 21:45:03 1997 Subject: Re: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration. In a message dated 97-05-03 09:50:07 EDT, you write: Subj: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration.Date: 97-05-03 09:50:07 EDTFrom: m.boretti@agonet.it (Boretti Marco)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Dear Friends,I must restore an old Hardy Fly Rod, Phantom 6'10" line 5, the snke guideare wrapped in Black tipped Red color.What type, size and color of Nylon must I use ?Do I owe besides use a color preserve ?Could I have a help ?Sincerely, Marco Boretti. Marco, I think the original thread is silk and you can still buy silk thread torewrap this rod. Silk will lie down better than nylon and look like theoriginal wraps. The black is easy - black. Red comes in several stades of red and youmightneed to purchase several spoons to find the proper match. Try Angler's Workshop in Washington state for silk thread. They sell it insize 50 ("A") and size 100 (3/0). The size 100 is the smallest dia. stuffforintermediate wraps. http://www.anglersworkshop.com Or try Belvoirdale (note he has the sizes reversed on his web page anddoesn't seem to know which is which when you talk to him). Tell him largeorsmall dia. and you'll get the correct stuff. http://www.netreach.net/company/belvoirdale/ Good luck rebuilding this rod. Don Burns from domenic1@ix.netcom.com Sun May 4 00:31:07 1997 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) 1997 01:29:49 -0400 Subject: RE: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK =_NextPart_000_01BC582A.A82B1E00" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC582A.A82B1E00 ---------- Subject: RE: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK Hi,I am interested in some of your silk thread, please send info andprices.ThanksMike ----------From: Domenic Croce[SMTP:domenic1@ix.netcom.com]Sent: Saturday, May 03, 1997 10:22 AM Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,ifanyone is interested please e mailor call me.Thank You Domenic P.Croce Croce Rod Co.1-26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com Michael,please e mail me with your e mail adress and I will send you a list ofcolorsand prices. Domenic ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC582A.A82B1E00 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC582A.A82B1E00-- from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun May 4 01:53:00 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id IAA03542 for; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:54:55 -0200 Subject: Risp: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration. Hi Don,Thank for your information.Marco ----------Da: Canerods@aol.comA: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: domenica 4 maggio 1997 4.43 In a message dated 97-05-03 09:50:07 EDT, you write: Subj: Hardy Phantom 6'10" Restoration.Date: 97-05-03 09:50:07 EDTFrom: m.boretti@agonet.it (Boretti Marco)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Dear Friends,I must restore an old Hardy Fly Rod, Phantom 6'10" line 5, the snkeguideare wrapped in Black tipped Red color.What type, size and color of Nylon must I use ?Do I owe besides use a color preserve ?Could I have a help ?Sincerely, Marco Boretti. Marco, I think the original thread is silk and you can still buy silk thread torewrap this rod. Silk will lie down better than nylon and look like theoriginal wraps. The black is easy - black. Red comes in several stades of red and youmightneed to purchase several spoons to find the proper match. Try Angler's Workshop in Washington state for silk thread. They sell itinsize 50 ("A") and size 100 (3/0). The size 100 is the smallest dia. stuffforintermediate wraps. http://www.anglersworkshop.com Or try Belvoirdale (note he has the sizes reversed on his web page anddoesn't seem to know which is which when you talk to him). Tell himlargeorsmall dia. and you'll get the correct stuff. http://www.netreach.net/company/belvoirdale/ Good luck rebuilding this rod. Don Burns from SCHURDLU@aol.com Sun May 4 02:43:03 1997 Subject: How to identify a rod I have a 7 1/2-foot two-piece rod that appears to be very old. The nameonit isBernard & Son, St. James, London SW. Can anyone tell me where to find outabout the maker? Also have a 9 1/2-foot rod with two tips. It's completewith four-pocket rod holder and fabric case. There's no name on it. I livein Santa Clara, California.Is there anyone in my area who might be able to help me identify themaker? Gary Williamsschurdlu@aol.com from cparham@crocker.com Sun May 4 07:57:10 1997 rmc1.crocker.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA09056 for; Sun, 4 May 1997 08:58:02 GMT Subject: Re: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK Reed F. Curry wrote: Domenic Croce wrote:From: Domenic Croce[SMTP:domenic1@ix.netcom.com]Sent: Saturday, May 03, 1997 10:22 AM Subject: BELDING CORTICELLI SILK I have a supply of Belding Corticelli silk for sale in many colors,ifanyone is interested please e mailor call me.Thank YouDomenic P.CroceCroce Rod Co.1- 26 Lambert RoadFair lawn,N.J. 07410(201)791- 1774domenic1@ix.netcom.com I've found the Corticelli silk to be excellent for larger rods. At $2.75 bargain. (Although I once bought it at $0.35 per spool.)ReedI worked for Belding in the 70's dyeing the silk thread. I used to pick up a spool or two that failed QA because of color match. How I wish I had it all now. from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun May 4 11:31:59 1997 MAA29928 for ; Sun, 4 May 1997 12:31:55 - Subject: Paper Airplanes To the list, 5/3/97I was on the traditional rod design track for over twenty years. If anyonedoubts this look up my article "Bamboo Rods in the Space Age" in the March1971 issue of FLYFISHERMAN Magazine. (Yes, Virginia, we did do spacework in71. In fact one of my inventions from that era sits on the moon's surfaceasof now). I graphed dozensof rods and rigged up an optical comparator to pick out the good and badtaper features, making real progress with trial and error designs, andwhenMr. G and Son-of -Stardust hit the street it was very satisfying to findthat Mr. G's engineered tapers closely approximated those that I hadarrivedat empirically and independently. But what I remember from all that earlyeffort is the number of hours spent in making less-than- wonderful rods.Andthat in a few(?)words is the reason I use stress curves today. If you makepaper airplanes, trial and error is fine. If you choose to make cane rodsit's too darned wasteful of time and effort.Now back to the Hendricksons. Bill from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun May 4 15:01:01 1997 Subject: Rod design Several days ago someone wrote about rods "breaking on the first cast",implying this could be the fate of rods designed by methods other than Mr.G's stress curve. I don't wish to prolong this debate but cannot leave thatremark unchallenged. The following were designed using my own method:No. 1 - 9' 8 wt., sold to Jerry, one of the best steelheaders anywhere, in1980. Used to catch in excess of 100 steelhead, some to 25 pounds.No. 2 - 9' 8 wt., slightly faster than No. 1, traded to Bill for a radialarm saw in 1983. He and I fished together until his death in '95 and I knowfirst hand he caught more than 200 steelhead with it. Friend Ron now hasitand last August in a 5 day period beached 13 steelhead to 18 pounds.No. 3 - 9' 7 wt. designed and built in 1985 specially for Mac who wanted aslower rod that would be slightly underlined with a 7 line. Immediatelybecame his favorite for steelhead and for salmon off the beach of hisVancouver Island home. Not sure of the numbers, but in dozens of trips Iwitnessed he was rarely skunked.No. 4 - 8'9" 7 wt. modified by my method from a Garrison 221, built in'82. My favorite for summer steelhead. Score is well over 100 to 12pounds.Not bad for one-tip rods. In 20+ years and about 80 rods, the only rod ofmine that has broken came out second best in an encounter with a screendoor. What does this prove? Just this -- damn good rods that will withstandheavyuse can be designed without a stress curve.And this is my last word on this topic. (Did you say "Thankfully?")John from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun May 4 15:01:03 1997 Subject: Re: Rod design ----------From: FISHWOOL@aol.com Subject: Re: Rod designDate: Friday, May 02, 1997 12:29 PM Hey John,I've seen a lot of the Virtual Fisherpersons crowding the streams - they're all decked out ln everything in the Orvis,etc. catalogue andcan'tfish worth shucks, they just crowd you if you're catching anything. Asfar asrod design goes it really don't make no never mind, as long as we getwhat wewant in an action.Consistency is the main thing-Ive seen some beautifulrodsmade from hexrod-it just ain't my way-I'll use it to check a new taperagainst an old one if I think I'm on the edge of too much stress. Hank. P.S. John B., Are you still havin' fun? Sure am. Now, about this word "parabolic"....JB from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Sun May 4 17:15:45 1997 Subject: Re: Paper Airplanes Bill Fink wrote: To the list, 5/3/97I was on the traditional rod design track for over twenty years. If anyonedoubts this look up my article "Bamboo Rods in the Space Age" in theMarch1971 issue of FLYFISHERMAN Magazine. (Yes, Virginia, we did do spacework in71. In fact one of my inventions from that era sits on the moon's surfaceasof now). I graphed dozensof rods and rigged up an optical comparator to pick out the good and badtaper features, making real progress with trial and error designs, andwhenMr. G and Son-of -Stardust hit the street it was very satisfying to findthat Mr. G's engineered tapers closely approximated those that I hadarrivedat empirically and independently. But what I remember from all thatearlyeffort is the number of hours spent in making less-than- wonderful rods.Andthat in a few(?)words is the reason I use stress curves today. If youmakepaper airplanes, trial and error is fine. If you choose to make cane rodsit's too darned wasteful of time and effort.Now back to the Hendricksons. BillBill Would you believe that the taper for the butt section of my first rodwas from the taper you had behind you in the picture accompaning yourartickle. You didn't have a tip taper shown so I had to work that outmyself, empiracally. The rod looked like hell, but it was a sweetcasting rod. Thank You for the lift. Ralph Moon from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun May 4 20:38:22 1997 Subject: Re: Walter Brunner Fly Rods. Marco Hello seen your post on the rod builders list and thought that l would sendyou a note . l hope that all is well with you and your family . Spring hascome to Oregon the rivers are high but still fishable we have had a verywetyear . l went out last weekend to the Deschutes river .lt is a large stream300 meters across and some places the fish are rainbows in the 10 -18inchrange . This strain of rainbows is called redside it is native to the easternpart of Oregon . l had to try out a new rod 7.5ft 4 wt got a few fish hadsome real nice weather and a good time . Not much of a fish story l knowbutl should have some tall tale to tell by summer . Best Regards Gary from sats@gte.net Sun May 4 20:41:59 1997 Subject: Re: Am I talking total garbage? You can talk plainly to me. John Cooper (England) John, A very interesting post. I've come to the conclusion that "Sets" in bamboorodsare not from fighting large fish. (Oh, Okay, some of them could be). Butmostfishermen didn't catch fish that big, that often. If bamboo could take a setjust by fighting a fish then I should be able to take the set out by applyingabout the same pressure pressure in the opposite direction for about 5minutes.I haven't tried this but I don't think it would cure the problem. (might justgive it a whack. I thought that maybe the difference in the sections glued together could,overtime expand and contract, much like a house thermostat. I don't know, allthesets seem to go in the same direction. Is it along the spline?? We know that rods that set proped up against a wall for some period oftime DOtake a set. How long?? I don't know. Most of the rods I've come in contactwith, have a checkered history, so I don't know what their lenage is... I have tried straightning rods by placing them in a "jig" for some period ofweeks. It doesn't seem to do much good.?!? Terry Kirkpatrick Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun May 4 21:21:00 1997 Subject: Re: Walter Brunner Fly Rods. Sorry that last message was not supposed to go here got to learn to checkwere lam sending things it could get me in trouble someday . Thanks Gary from Canerods@aol.com Sun May 4 21:51:45 1997 Subject: Re: Horrocks-Ibbottson ID? In a message dated 97-05-03 20:02:02 EDT, you write: * Length overall is nine feet* Three piece, two identical tips* Reelseat is an all metal downlocking sliding band. It's plated brass* Grip is 4 1/2" sort of exaggerated full wells. Appears tobe solid cork, 1" rings. A rodent has chewed part of it.* Stripper guide is missing* Ferrules are rolled welt with two shallow ringscut in near the base.* Guide wraps are red, tipped in black* "Intermediates" on the butt section are a red wrap with two olive or yellow colored wraps spaced 3/8" away on either side.* Intermediates on the mid and tips are evenly spaced alternatingolive (or yellow) and red. Thanks to the list in advance for any commentary you may have on thisrod.I have no clue what I'm going to do with it. It could end up on the wall instrument. Then again a big ole' heavy nine foot rod may make meappreciate my other cane rod more. Who knows? -=Mark=- With the rolled welts, 1" cork rings and plated brass reelseat spacer - I'dsay a low end rod. At 9' too long for much value today. Buy it cheap andmakea banty rod out of the mid and tips. Don Burns from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun May 4 22:51:28 1997 Subject: Boat - Grayrock Logo - Design boundary="PART.BOUNDARY.0.21145.emout14.mail.aol.com.862804250" --PART.BOUNDARY.0.21145.emout14.mail.aol.com.862804250 Well another long weekend - The Judge's boat is back looking like a boat-a few more hours and the outside glass will be repaired - A re-launchpartyis scheduled in two week. We also retrieved a second plank boat from thedebirs - the impact of the falling roof pulverized the back half of the boat- we gathered up all the slivers and brought the boat home to store in ourbarn - it'll be a couple of years before I can even think of restoration.Attached is the design that was created for the aprons for Grayrock - itajpg file I hope you can all view. If there are no objections I will be givingthe screen printed the go ahead to produce 60 aprons - last year therewere50 or so and I hope to have a few spares incase some one wants more thanone. The karma is that the group will grow a bit this year - a mailing isgoing out at the end of the week. A straw poll might be helpful - Couldthoseintending attending please - e-mail me off the list (WayneCatt@aol.com)andin case you have an extra $20 that you would like to register with you can Wayne Cattanach15315 Apple AveCasnovia, MI 49318 A while back I was asked if I had any further information on rod designusing hexrod - so for the last bit I have been putting some thoughtstogether- sort of a users guide and instructions - some is a rehash of earlierpostings of the correctness of the program. The goal is to finish this textin a couple of weeks - at which time I'm sending it off for John B to use orwhatever for a presentation at the Grand River gathering. For those thatmaynot be attending I will post if the desire is there - caution!!! - it isgetting a bit lenghty ( 24 pages in WP5 ) and I'm still showing examples ofthe program use. I will be printing it for part of the handout packet forGrayrock and will have disks of the program and taper data base as well. In the past I have always felt that rod design was a earned thing -through stream experience and at the workbench creating the differentrods.My attitude hasn't changed. I don't foresee a day that a computer programorother technique will 'just spit it out'. Yes - with a big enough data base itcould be fairly close to that - but I think at that point the individual ismissing out. The reason the text is so sparse in my book is a reflection ofthat attitude - Here is a tool explore with it - investigate and develop. There are a couple of areas of this craft that I am shoared in - nodedconstruction and mr G's curve idea. But - I am not going to get ruffled ifthere are other ideas come down the phone line. As I explained earlier I'msofar into both that changing either would be a major uprooting. I set asignature with my rods that I need to maintain and I have seen the resultsofthe other. For those starting out I will always encourage the testing ofnew Lastly - I have only recieved a few requests for ferrules and such -Iwill be ordering those items in another 2 weeks so that they will beavailable at Grayrock. I have sent return e-mails to those that sent - Ifyouhaven't recieved a response please resent your request - You know the AOLthing. Wayne --PART.BOUNDARY.0.21145.emout14.mail.aol.com.862804250 name="GRAYRCK.JPG" 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--PART.BOUNDARY.0.21145.emout14.mail.aol.com.862804250-- from mrj@seanet.com Mon May 5 00:15:22 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA03133 for Subject: Re: Walter Brunner Fly Rods. GLohkamp@aol.com wrote: Sorry that last message was not supposed to go here got to learn tocheckwere lam sending things it could get me in trouble someday . Thanks Gary Don't worry. As long as you send a good fishing report like you did Iwon't mind.-- Martin Jensen from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 5 09:11:46 1997 ESMTP id JAA11611 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA16405 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id VNOLAJAK; Mon,5 May 1997 09:11:10 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Re: 15% discount on Sherline lathes Jon Lintvet: Sorry for the delay but I am also interested in possibly going in on theSherline deal. So, how much better than 15% off can you do? Just Interested,Don DeLoach from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 5 09:19:59 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 07:19:38 -0700 Subject: stuff 4.0.994.63 Gentlemen First things first, Wayne I ordered one of your oven kits 6 monthsago,and my email inquiries don't seem to be reaching you, anyhow just afriendly little reminder to let you know that I'm am still waiting butam getting to the point that I need it soon.Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and first ofall he doesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the40's,50's and 60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He saidthe cane today isn't worth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that hehasn't had any cane that he would buy for the last two years. Said heknows the Chinese family that supplies it and they are no longer growingany but are just scavenging cane that they can find. How true this is Idon't know. He did say that if it was him he would only by the 1 3/4" to2" cane because the smaller diameter cane has more and better powerfibers. His suggestion was to buy all the good cane one gets a chance atbecause before long all that will be available will be garbage.I asked him if he could advise me on cooking cane and both he and hisson said that he had worked out what they considered the ideal times andtemperatures. I asked if this was a secret or would he mind telling mein that I was a ameture maker and was seeking help and information. Thisis the temperatures and times he gave me:250 degrees 1 1/2 - 2 hours300 degrees 1 hour375-400 degrees 30 minutes Having never had the opportunity to play with one of his rods I'm notenough of a expert to say one way or another if he knows what he'stalking about other than going by his reputation. Patrick from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 5 09:20:17 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: J shaped oven I put the finishing touches to my cane oven this weekend. Derived from Frank Neunemann's design (one tube inside the other) it's very simple to make and avoids potential overheating of the heat gun. A J shaped tube is fashioned out of galvanized steel pipe conduit - Home Depot sells double wall conduit which costs more but greatly reduces the risk of burns. The long end of the J is 5' tall, the short 2.5 feet. The Bosch 1945LED heat gun (superb tool with great ergonomics - about$110) goes in the short end with some flash shrouding for support and sealing. The J is fastened to a scrap wood stand with stand-off pipe connnectorsto minimize heating/fire risk. The U in the base of the J uses flexible metal hose, from the same store. Set at position 13 out of 15 at blower speed 4, a cheap MSC thermometer ( from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 5 09:33:24 1997 ESMTP id JAA17351 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA24811 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id FKOHBXBA; Mon,5 May 1997 09:32:49 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: basic question: lathes Dumb Question: I don't know anything about lathes, so here goes. How many different kinds of lathes are there? I mean, the kind with athree jawchuck (external--like a hand drill) is one kind right? How about the oneWayneuses in his video--it has an "internal" chuck that enables him to put thewholerod shaft thru and mount it, say, just above the cork to shape the handleforinstance. Is one of these a wood lathe and one a metalworking lathe? Itseemslike the kind Wayne uses in the video would be a heck of a lot more usefulforrod making. In all my catalogs (grizzley, alden, enco) I can't find this styleof lathe offered by any manufacturer. Does Sherline offer this style oflathe? Another question, this time subjective: what is the best all around latheforminimum rodbuilding puposes (turning handles and ferrule stations)? Willjustone lathe do it all? Sorry for bandwidth suckage, but we never got to the lathe (or the routertable) in seventh grade wood shop--our teacher was kinda slow and it wasa bigclass! Don D. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 5 09:40:08 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 07:38:39 -0700 Subject: FW: stuff 4.0.994.63 ----------From: Coffey, Patrick WSent: Monday, May 05, 1997 7:00 AM Subject: stuff Gentlemen First things first, Wayne I ordered one of your oven kits 6 monthsago, andmy email inquiries don't seem to be reaching you, anyhow just a friendlylittle reminder to let you know that I'm am still waiting but am gettingtothe point that I need it soon.Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and first ofall hedoesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the 40's,50'sand60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He said the cane todayisn'tworth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that he hasn't had any canethathe would buy for the last two years. Said he knows the Chinese familythatsupplies it and they are no longer growing any but are just scavengingcanethat they can find. How true this is I don't know. He did say that if it washim he would only by the 1 3/4" to 2" cane because the smaller diametercanehas more and better power fibers. His suggestion was to buy all the goodcaneone gets a chance at because before long all that will be available will begarbage.I asked him if he could advise me on cooking cane and both he and hissonsaid that he had worked out what they considered the ideal times andtemperatures. I asked if this was a secret or would he mind telling me inthat I was a ameture maker and was seeking help and information. This isthetemperatures and times he gave me:250 degrees 1 1/2 - 2 hours300 degrees 1 hour375-400 degrees 30 minutes Having never had the opportunity to play with one of his rods I'm notenoughof a expert to say one way or another if he knows what he's talking aboutother than going by his reputation. Patrick from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Mon May 5 09:44:40 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: J shaped oven Thomas, Is there a drawing of this oven design around anywhere? Bob Matarazzo from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 5 09:50:21 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: J oven time/temp I forgot to mention results of my first experiments. 15 minutes at 180C (356F) yields a dark honey color once the enamel is removed. ThomasP@nacm.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon May 5 09:56:00 1997 Subject: Re: basic question: lathes Don - Most, but not all, lathes have the hollow headstock you refer to as aninternal chuck. Actually, the chuck is a removeable accessory to the lathe. one. Make sure it has a hollow headstock with at least 3/8" ID, and a longenough bed to turn the longest handle you expect to make. Don't forgetaboutbutt extensions. I used a Sears model for many years before I came acrossmymetalworking lathe. -- Tom from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 5 11:13:03 1997 ESMTP id LAA06736 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA05119 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id XOQLADCT; Mon,5 May 1997 11:12:00 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Resorcinol I was at the Orvis (ugh) store the other day to look at the two REAL rodstheyhad there (sitting, blasphemously, alongside a sea of plastic poles). I wasadmiring the details and noticed the fabled purple glue line and realizedOrvismust use Resorcinol. I was surprised in that the rods weren't ugly at all,assome have said of Resorcinol rods. I actually was drawn to the look oftheseglue lines and now have decided to use Resorcinol on my first rod. So, anyone who has strong feelings about Resorcinol, please share yourthoughts, tips for working with it, etc. I know the number one drawback isthefifteen minute pot time--is this all? Also, can anyone tell me an inexpensive source for Resorcinol, in a verysmalltest quantity, for just one rod? ThanksDon from SalarFly@aol.com Mon May 5 11:36:04 1997 Subject: Re: Resorcinol In a message dated 97-05-05 12:25:39 EDT, you write: So, anyone who has strong feelings about Resorcinol, please share yourthoughts, tips for working with it, etc. I know the number one drawbackis thefifteen minute pot time--is this all? You can extend the pot time by icing it down. Get a large bowl and asmaller container - one of those frozen chicken pot pie containerswork fine. Fill the larger bowl with ice, put the smaller one on top ofthe ice, mix it in there. Pot life goes to at least 25 minutes. Also, can anyone tell me an inexpensive source for Resorcinol, in a very smalltest quantity, for just one rod? Most woodworking stores have Resorcinol, that's what it is primarilyused for. In my opinion, if you are going to go to the trouble of usingResorcinol, you might as well go to epoxy. Same amount ofwork, stronger bond. Darryl Hayashida from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Mon May 5 12:06:17 1997 2.0/2.12um) id JAA000.45; Mon, 5 May 1997 09:37:41 -0400 Subject: Re: basic question: lathes Hi Don: You need to only concern yourself with two basic lathe types; woodturning and metal cutting. Wood turning lathes are usually the less expensive alternative relative tosize (distance between centers and swing, the maximum diameter of the piece to beturned). Metal cutting lathes have a moveable carriage that holds anapron/toolpost/toolholder/cutting tool. This combination moves/feeds the cutting tool against the work. Wood lathesemploy a tool rest and and hand-held turning tools (gouges, scrapers, etc.) to do the cutting. Normally, both can use a 3 or 4-jaw chuck to grip the work. Lathes with a hollow spindle in the headstock are the rule for rodmakers. If you'll only be turning grips and ferrule stations you could get by with a wood lathenicely. Be sure to consider some type of support device for the unchucked portion of the rodto reduce "whip" as it revolves. Clemens shows one type among accessories for theirrodbuilder's lathes. Hope this is helpful. Regards, Rich Brown from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 5 12:53:08 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 10:52:46 -0700 Subject: cooking bamboo 4.0.994.63 Mr. Powell said that the reason he cooks his bamboo at 250 degreesbefore cranking it up to higher temperatures is the lower temperatureallows the moisture to cook out of the bamboo without turning to steam.He said that at a higher initial temperature the moisture turns to steamand ruptures the cell walls instead of escaping out the end of the tubes(power fibers are hollow tubes). Patrick from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 5 15:28:32 1997 ESMTP id PAA11567 for ; Mon, 5 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA02416 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id DIUCBLBS; Mon, 5May 1997 15:27:37 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Catskill gathering Is there a rodmakers gathering coming up in the Catskill region? Don from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon May 5 15:56:10 1997 Subject: Re: Resorcinol Don - Resourcinal is a good glue for your first rod for a few reasons. It iseasy to get, and reasonably easy to use, and it will show you yourmistakes. edges, which seem insignificant to a first timer will show up on the rodandyou will have a better idea what kind of quality standards to maintainnexttime. The only problem I have ever had with the stuff is that it tends todarken with age. You are liable to leave small traces of it on the rodsurface which are invisible, only to have them turn into purple splotches afew months later. Some people leave the enamel on the cane until aftertheyglue to avoid this. I don't always use the stuff, but I always have some inthe shop, it's a good glue.---Tom from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 5 16:39:06 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Octagonal rods I notice that the Fred Divine company makes mention of 8 sided rods in ads reprinted in Michael Sinclair's engrossing book "Fishing Rods by Divine". Anyone have any thoughts on the pros and cons of this approach? ThomasP@nacm.com from hood@hpesdah.fc.hp.com Mon May 5 17:17:38 1997 palrel1.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA25064 for (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA09237; Mon, 5 May 1997 16:17:30 -0600 Subject: Re: 4 vs 5 vs 6 Jorge,I have incorporated Garrison's equations into a spreadsheet that hasas an option the ability to graph tapers for rods with other than 6 sides.If you would like tapers (or corresponding stress curves for your equalcross section rods) I will be glad to produce them for you. Davidhood@fc.hp.com from Lloyd.Cross@clorox.com Mon May 5 17:42:00 1997 mail-oak-1.pilot.net with ESMTP id PAA11751 for (CEMS 5.01/1.37.109.14) id AA052862651; Mon, 5 May 1997 15:50:51- 0700 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00041DCC; Mon, 5 May 9715:48:19 -0700 Subject: Planing Forms Hello folks, As an all around metal head, (machinery, not music) I am humbled by the question I'm about to ask, but here goes... stone did you use to polish the steel? Wayne refers to an India Combination, but I am unable to locate one at the local hardware stores. I have some nice ceramic stones (probably too hard), a combination water stone (too soft), and can easily get Arkansas stones of varying grades. What grade and type of stones are you folks using on the metal forms? Thanks! L.D.Cross from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon May 5 17:50:57 1997 Subject: RE:Resorcinol RO>I was at the Orvis (ugh) store the other day to look at the two REALrods thRO>had there (sitting, blasphemously, alongside a sea of plastic poles). IwasRO>admiring the details and noticed the fabled purple glue line andrealized OrRO>must use Resorcinol. I was surprised in that the rods weren't ugly atall, aRO>some have said of Resorcinol rods. I actually was drawn to the look oftheseRO>glue lines and now have decided to use Resorcinol on my first rod. RO>So, anyone who has strong feelings about Resorcinol, please share yourRO>thoughts, tips for working with it, etc. I know the number onedrawback is tRO>fifteen minute pot time--is this all? RO>Also, can anyone tell me an inexpensive source for Resorcinol, in avery smaRO>test quantity, for just one rod? RO>ThanksRO>Don Don Try you local Home Depot store - or other good hardware outlet. Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 5 19:25:42 1997 Tue, 6 May 1997 08:25:32 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Resorcinol Hi Don, I was at the Orvis (ugh) store the other day to look at the two REAL rodstheyhad there (sitting, blasphemously, alongside a sea of plastic poles). Iwasadmiring the details and noticed the fabled purple glue line and realizedOrvismust use Resorcinol. I was surprised in that the rods weren't ugly at all,assome have said of Resorcinol rods. I actually was drawn to the look oftheseglue lines and now have decided to use Resorcinol on my first rod. I find resorcinol tends to define the shape nicely. I like to use blued guides and a bronze reel seat with a dark wood filler and the effect is pretty nice to my eyes. So, anyone who has strong feelings about Resorcinol, please share yourthoughts, tips for working with it, etc. I know the number one drawbackis thefifteen minute pot time--is this all? You should get better than 15 mins pot life. It's temp dependant and I've used it to glue rods here where it gets very hot without undue stress. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon May 5 19:37:41 1997 0000 Subject: REC Components i'm having trouble finding companies or catalogs who sell REC components.Do you have to order them factory direct? If so, should i contact them andask for a brochure? I have never used REC components, but have heard alotabout them. Figure I should try more companies other than Struble. Thanks Matt Leidermam (aka Blue-Winged Olive in VFS Chat Room) from burgould@mint.net Mon May 5 21:03:22 1997 mint.mint.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA00471 for; Mon, 5 May 1997 22:03:19 -0400 Subject: Re: stuff Can anyone offer any addl. information on the cane situation discussedbelow? Is it really that bad? I was about to order some cane from Mr.Demarest. Should I reconsider? What do others think? Frantic in Bangor. Thanks, Bill. Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and first ofall he doesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the40's,50's and 60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He saidthe cane today isn't worth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that hehasn't had any cane that he would buy for the last two years. Said heknows the Chinese family that supplies it and they are no longer growingany but are just scavenging cane that they can find. How true this is Idon't know. He did say that if it was him he would only by the 1 3/4" to2" cane because the smaller diameter cane has more and better powerfibers. His suggestion was to buy all the good cane one gets a chance atbecause before long all that will be available will be garbage. from bokstrom@axionet.com Mon May 5 21:03:44 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components ----------From: Matt Leiderman Subject: REC ComponentsDate: Monday, May 05, 1997 5:37 PM i'm having trouble finding companies or catalogs who sell RECcomponents.Do you have to order them factory direct? If so, should i contact themandask for a brochure? I have never used REC components, but have heardalotabout them. Figure I should try more companies other than Struble. Thanks Matt Leidermam (aka Blue-Winged Olive in VFS Chat Room) Al Bellinger in Salem, OR makes beautiful reel seats in a wide variety. Tryhim at Bellinger Reel Seats Inc.2017 25th Street S.E.Salem, OR 97302-1130Phone 503-371-6151Fax 503-371-3771 John from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon May 5 23:42:46 1997 Subject: RE:REC Components RO>i'm having trouble finding companies or catalogs who sell RECcomponents.RO>Do you have to order them factory direct? If so, should i contact themandRO>ask for a brochure? I have never used REC components, but have heardalotRO>about them. Figure I should try more companies other than Struble. ThanksRO>for the help! RO>Matt Leidermam (aka Blue-Winged Olive in VFS Chat Room) MAtt, Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Tue May 6 00:44:56 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components In a message dated 97-05-06 01:41:12 EDT, you write: Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com I was just there yesterday, and asked about REC reelseatssince there are very few left on the hanger. John told me thatthey will not be carrying them any more, because REC isvery unreliable in delivery times. Darryl Hayashida from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue May 6 01:32:33 1997 Subject: Re: Catskill gathering Don DeLoach wrote: Is there a rodmakers gathering coming up in the Catskill region? Don Yes Don, there is going to be one.Usually the weekend after labor day.John from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue May 6 07:33:22 1997 Tue, 6 May 1997 20:32:59 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: REC Components On Tue, 6 May 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-05-06 01:41:12 EDT, you write: Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com I was just there yesterday, and asked about REC reelseatssince there are very few left on the hanger. John told me thatthey will not be carrying them any more, because REC isvery unreliable in delivery times. Darryl Hayashida I have Belvoirdale catalogue. Their gear looks good though I haven't actually seen any. Maybe worth a look? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from sleach@plessey.co.za Tue May 6 08:47:42 1997 15:45:53 +0200 via smap (V3.1) 6 May 97 16:02:17 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: Sherline lathes - Recomendation Please Could any of you give and opinion on which model Sherline lathewould be most suitable for the various aspects of rod building and, probably more important, which of the accessories are necessary (or even just nice to have.) Steve Leach from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue May 6 09:00:47 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA18752 for; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:00:44 -0400 Subject: Re: REC Components FWIW:The REC stuff I've seen is nice and the price is fair. Never had a problem with them, although they are practically in my backyard, as opposed to Darryl's backyard. Usual disclaimer - no financial interest,blah, blah, blah.(possibly a geographical bias though. ; ) Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from dryfly@erols.com Tue May 6 09:08:43 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components Matt Leiderman wrote: i'm having trouble finding companies or catalogs who sell RECcomponents.Do you have to order them factory direct? If so, should i contact themandask for a brochure? I have never used REC components, but have heardalotabout them. Figure I should try more companies other than Struble. Thanks Matt Leidermam (aka Blue-Winged Olive in VFS Chat Room) Matt I use REC componenets exclusively. REC recently changed hands, Alan andLinda Gnann are the new owners and they are trying to increase theircustomer base to include amateur rod builders. You can order direct from REC with no trouble. Tell Alan or Linda I told you to call. Theycan be reached at 860-749-3476. Bob Williams from dryfly@erols.com Tue May 6 09:11:09 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components Tony Young wrote: On Tue, 6 May 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-05-06 01:41:12 EDT, you write: Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com I was just there yesterday, and asked about REC reelseatssince there are very few left on the hanger. John told me thatthey will not be carrying them any more, because REC isvery unreliable in delivery times. Darryl Hayashida I have Belvoirdale catalogue. Their gear looks good though I haven'tactually seen any. Maybe worth a look? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/Very expensive, up near $100 per seat. from dryfly@erols.com Tue May 6 09:13:57 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-05-06 01:41:12 EDT, you write: Bob Marriott's has REC reelseats in their '96 catalog - I haven't gotthe '97 catalog yet so I'm assuming they're still carrying them. Formore info - URL: http://www.bobmarriotts.com I was just there yesterday, and asked about REC reelseatssince there are very few left on the hanger. John told me thatthey will not be carrying them any more, because REC isvery unreliable in delivery times. Darryl Hayashida REC has new owners, Alan and Linda Gnann. 860-749-3476 They areserious about improving the service problems that existed with theprevious owner. from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue May 6 09:22:29 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA07946 for; Tue, 6 May 1997 10:22:27 -0400 Subject: Re: REC Components Hi Bob,Did REC move, weren't they from up here in Vermont? I use REC componenets exclusively. REC recently changed hands, AlanandLinda Gnann are the new owners and they are trying to increase theircustomer base to include amateur rod builders. You can order direct from REC with no trouble. Tell Alan or Linda I told you to call. Theycan be reached at 860-749-3476. Bob Williams Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from dryfly@erols.com Tue May 6 09:40:11 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components Thomas Ausfeld wrote: Hi Bob,Did REC move, weren't they from up here in Vermont? I use REC componenets exclusively. REC recently changed hands, AlanandLinda Gnann are the new owners and they are trying to increase theircustomer base to include amateur rod builders. You can order direct from REC with no trouble. Tell Alan or Linda I told you to call. Theycan be reached at 860-749-3476. Bob Williams Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering REC moved from Vermont to Connecticut. New address is as follows:REC Components72 Shaker RoadEnfield, CT 06082Ph 860-749-3476Fax 860-749-3478 from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue May 6 09:48:32 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Milward binder I did a first dry run with the Milward binder I made over the past weekend, using my first six strips. I'm building the Wayne C 7 foot 2 piece that Darryl H spoke so highly of recently. I must say it is compelling in its effectiveness; indeed, I found that my thread tension was too high, which resulted in one of the four threads snapping and the others being so tight on the cane that fine marks wereleft after removal! I'm using upholstery thread and a portable variable speed electric drill for power. A helper feeds the strips until I come up with some sort of motor/foot switch arrangement. Regards,ThomsP@nacm.com from maiello@yorku.ca Tue May 6 10:08:57 1997 (PNBboDs2MUwH6HHOh6NubAArnZGe59yE@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA14951 for ; Subject: Southbend Rods Someone asked me if I could take apart a southbend, and use the cane tobuild another rod with it. What kind of glue did they use? Could it behide glue? There are no blue lines, so its not resorcinol (sp?).Thanks in advance for any help.Mauro Aiello from SalarFly@aol.com Tue May 6 10:11:08 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components In a message dated 97-05-06 10:20:43 EDT, you write: REC has new owners, Alan and Linda Gnann. 860-749-3476 They areserious about improving the service problems that existed with theprevious owner. I'm glad to hear that. I really do like the reel seat, as a matter of factthe "flagship" 7ft. Cattanach taper of mine has a REC nickel silverreel seat with an excellent cocobolo wood insert. Darryl Hayashida from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Tue May 6 10:41:55 1997 2.0/2.12um) id IAA000.41; Tue, 6 May 1997 08:41:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Hi Lloyd: "India" is a tradename used by Norton Abrasives. Sources follow: Rutland Tool and Supply 1-800-289-4787Woodcraft 1- 800-225-1153Garrett Wade 1-800-221-2942 The Norton India Combination Bench stone comes in a two-grit "sandwich", Coarse (100 grit) and Fine (280 grit). These grit sizes are based on U.S. grit sizes, not Japanese. I would presume Wayne would be using the fine grit side to polish the forms. Hope you find this information useful. Regards, Rich Brown from santiago@ricochet.net Tue May 6 10:49:17 1997 IAA25961 for ; Tue, 6 May 1997 08:49:11 - Subject: Wayne Catt... good morning wayne, i am checking through "rodmakers" listserv to see if you are receivingemail. i responded to your email about a month ago and haven't heardanything since. anyway, i will send a letter through smail with my requests and $. thanks, leo santiago@ricochet.netor206-440-2895 from mcalwill@fs.isu.edu Tue May 6 10:58:27 1997 SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id JAA27230 for ; Tue, 6 Tue, 6 May 97 10:02:32 -0600 0600 Tue, 6 May 97 10:02:00 -0600 Subject: Rod Taper for steelhead Hi !!If anyone knows of a good taper for Steelhead I would sure appreciatethe help. Thanks, Will McAleese - Idaho from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue May 6 11:02:11 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Lie Nielsen low angle block plane The latyest Garrett Wade catalog shows a new Lie Nielsen plane design -it's the 12 degree low angle block plane they have made for a while, but this time with an adjustable mouth. Not cheap at $145, but my experience withthe LN 20 degree fixed mouth block plane and with their bodied scrapersuggests that these are superb tools. My question is whether the 12 degree angle is too low for bamboo planing- this would be the same as the angle in the Stanley 920, compared to the20 degree angle in the Stanley 9 1/2? ThomasP@nacm.com from mcalwill@fs.isu.edu Tue May 6 11:03:33 1997 SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA27334 for ; Tue, 6 Tue, 6 May 97 10:07:42 -0600 0600 Tue, 6 May 97 10:07:03 -0600 Subject: rod taper - steelhead Hi; If anyone has a taper for Steelhead I would appreciate the help. Thanks, Will McAleese from mrj@seanet.com Tue May 6 19:37:43 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA21936 for Subject: Re: Milward binder Thomas Pindelski wrote: I did a first dry run with the Milward binder I made over the pastweekend,using my first six strips. I'm building the Wayne C 7 foot 2 piece thatDarryl H spoke so highly of recently. I must say it is compelling in its effectiveness; indeed, I found that mythread tension was too high, which resulted in one of the four threadssnapping and the others being so tight on the cane that fine marks wereleftafter removal! I'm using upholstery thread and a portable variable speed electric drillforpower. A helper feeds the strips until I come up with some sort ofmotor/foot switch arrangement. Regards,ThomsP@nacm.com Thomas,I have my milward binder running at about 100 rpm or so at the pullywheels. Maybe you are running faster? I have never found a foot switchnecessary at this speed. I have a foot switch that I could just plug inso it would be no problem if I wanted to. I do have an on off switchmounted on the base of the unit though. I set the thread tension with afishing scale and set it at about 2 or 4 lbs. for each thread. If youare breaking thread, than you probably have the tension set too high oryour tensioning devices are hanging up. -- Martin Jensen from mrj@seanet.com Tue May 6 19:47:58 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA22167 for Subject: Re: stuff Elizabeth Burke wrote: Can anyone offer any addl. information on the cane situation discussedbelow? Is it really that bad? I was about to order some cane from Mr.Demarest. Should I reconsider? What do others think? Frantic in Bangor. Thanks, Bill. Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and firstofall he doesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the40's,50's and 60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He saidthe cane today isn't worth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that hehasn't had any cane that he would buy for the last two years. Said heknows the Chinese family that supplies it and they are no longergrowingany but are just scavenging cane that they can find. How true this is Idon't know. He did say that if it was him he would only by the 1 3/4" to2" cane because the smaller diameter cane has more and better powerfibers. His suggestion was to buy all the good cane one gets a chance atbecause before long all that will be available will be garbage. If you are starting rod building I would buy from Demerast. I haveboughtr two bundles from him in the recent past and basically been happywith them. The FIRST thing I would do is to put a split in them all theway dowm the length. Use a previous split if posslble. I have bought thelarger stuff in the past but after all the talk I would probably buy the1&3/4 stuff now. I think that the deal is, is that if you are making alot of rods, than you will get a lot of bamboo that you don't want tobother straightening or worring about bends. If you are learning thanyou should learn how to straighten bends and how to split properly, andwhat better way than with bamboo that has bends. I am taking my worstbamboo and making by all appearances, good rods out of it. By the time Iget really good, all I will have left will be primo stuff, the easystuff to work with.Hope this helps. You don't have a lot of options either.-- Martin Jensen from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 7 03:03:37 1997 Wed, 7 May 1997 16:03:02 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Sherline lathes - Recomendation Please I have the shorter bed model (4100 metric) and now think the longer bed would have been better.If you will be making screw type reel seats get the threading attachment though as I've mentioned before it's a bit fiddly though it works 100% once you get the hang of it.The knerling attachment is very good.I think there is also a tool rest so you can use wood turning chisels and if you don't have a wood lathe this would be good, but I think rigging something up wouldn't be too difficult.The attachment to allow the lathe to be converted into a milling machine may work ok, but I haven't bothered looking into it that much as it wont work as well as a purpos built milling machine Sherline also make. The lathe comes with a cutter as well as some tool steel so you can make your own cutters, but buy a center drill and a boring tool also.Without the center drill you wont drill neat holes and may break you drill bits and if you make reel seats you'll need the boring tool.That's all you need. I've found when turning ferrule stations that if you tightly bind the very end of the blank you can use the tailstock spindle to hold the blank while turning. Don't use too much presure on the tailstock or you'll split the blank, but enough will relieve stress on your part while performing this operation as it prevents the blank from running off centre when you apply the cutter.I've also found that a piece of wood with a small hole bored in it set at the correct height to allow the other end of the blank to enter and rest in will prevent the rod whipping about....too much.Take it slowwww and easy. Tony Could any of you give and opinion on which model Sherline lathewould be most suitable for the various aspects of rod building and, probably more important, which of the accessories are necessary (or even just nice to have.) Steve Leach /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed May 7 03:13:19 1997 Wed, 7 May 1997 16:12:46 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Lie Nielsen low angle block plane On Tue, 6 May 1997, Thomas Pindelski wrote: The latyest Garrett Wade catalog shows a new Lie Nielsen plane design -it's the 12 degree low angle block plane they have made for a while, but this time with an adjustable mouth. Not cheap at $145, but my experiencewith the LN 20 degree fixed mouth block plane and with their bodied scrapersuggests that these are superb tools. My question is whether the 12 degree angle is too low for bambooplaning - this would be the same as the angle in the Stanley 920, compared to the20 degree angle in the Stanley 9 1/2? ThomasP@nacm.com I've been using a Stanley 60 1/2 which has the lower angle. I like it and wouldn't change. I think it's a case of getting used to things but I don't get the tear out problems people sometime associate with the 601/2 but I have a Hock iron which I keep sharp and don't try taking too much cane in each pass.LN use good steel and the tools are of the highest quality, I don't want to think about it too much or I'll be forced to go and buy one. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Wed May 7 09:16:11 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: A TEST: No need to read this This was just a test from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed May 7 10:46:07 1997 Subject: What defines a Master???? In a conversation with a student last night the question of what definesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -thereisn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments?????? from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed May 7 13:14:07 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 11:13:56 -0700 Subject: help 4.0.994.63 has anybody done a investigation into staggering as to which is bettergarrison's or the 2-2-2 method. also whats the opinion on ovens-which is better wayne's or the hot airoven using a hot air gun. Am purchasing a hot air gun and dependent onthe oven I'm going to build, how good a hot air gun I need. Patrick from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Wed May 7 19:21:01 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 7 May 1997 20:22:03 EDT Subject: Test Think I lost you allJon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jfoster@gte.net Wed May 7 20:44:39 1997 Subject: web I seem to have lost communications but.. We have three new tapers in the archive, thanks to Tom Smithwick, ChrisBogart and a Young midge.Thanks to you guy's .. check 'em out Jerry from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed May 7 21:47:22 1997 Subject: Test - is the server down? Test message, a repost of a Sloven friend's post to me: Don: Yesterday, Bojana and I fished Krka. It was great. We intended togo on Friday but changed our plans and went on Saturday. Surprisingly,the water raised for a 20-30 cm and was a bit coloured so the muddlerswere just fine. We fished the upper, trophy part. Bojana had landed tworainbows (47 and 49 cm) and a brownie (54 cm). I released three rainbowseach having more than 45 cm and a giant one broke the 0.25mm tippet.The warden that came by said that the water raised in the night fromFriday to Saturday . Today, I went with Joze (my neighbour, gave you a license) to SavaBohinjka. We fished the part from the wooden bridge downstream whichis now catch-and-release part. The Sava river is on the other hand stilllow. However, I was using a red beadhead and mickey finn and hooked(and released), you will not beleive, 50- 60 brookies (25-40 cm) andsome ten rainbows three of them having more than 60 cm. We fished forthree, four hours and at the end my hand did not want to listen me anymore. Excelent fishing weekend. The new Sagerod worked perfectly. I just love it. from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Thu May 8 08:08:08 1997 Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 08:09:15 -0500 Subject: RE: What defines a Master???? 4.0.994.63 Websters Dictionary's definition 1 &2 for master: 1. A male person having another living being so far subject to his will,that he can, in the main,control his or its actions; -- formerly used with much more extensiveapplication than now. (a) Theemployer of a servant. (b) The owner of a slave. (c) The person to whoman apprentice is articled.(d) A sovereign, prince, or feudal noble; a chief, or one exercisingsimilar authority. (e) The head of ahousehold. (f) The male head of a school or college. (g) A male teacher.(h) The director of anumber of persons performing a ceremony or sharing a feast. (i) Theowner of a docile brute, --especially a dog or horse. (j) The controller of a familiar spirit orother supernatural being. 2. One who uses, or controls at will, anything inanimate; as, to bemaster of one's time. Shak. Olaf Borge, Systems Programmer/Basic SystemsCNO/AISSUniversity of Illinois728 West Roosevelt RoadChicago, Illinois 60607-7007Phone: (312)996-5212 INTERNET: oborge@uic.edu ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com[SMTP:WayneCatt@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 1997 10:45 AM Subject: What defines a Master???? In a conversation with a student last night the question of whatdefinesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -thereisn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments?????? from Marty.Ball@noaa.gov Thu May 8 09:10:37 1997 Content-Identifier: 019F53371E0741F7Content-Return: Allowed Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? I would suggest that a Master rod maker is someone who has enough command of all aspects of the rod building craft that he or she can build, from basic materials, a rod that is a masterpiece. A masterpiece rod would be one that exhibits excellent craftsmanship in all phases of the rodbuilding process as judged by other masters.This, as I understand it, is the basis for the traditional apprentice, journeyman, master system of craft training. Marty Ball ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: What defines a Master????Author: WayneCatt@aol.com at EXTERNAL In a conversation with a student last night the question of what definesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -there isn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments?????? from mattj@barnum.ultranet.com Thu May 8 09:23:16 1997 Subject: Tip top seams splitting I have slowly but surely been making progress on restoring my girlfriend'sfather's old cane rod. I have removed all the hardware, stripped the rod,replaced the hardware and am almost done rewrapping the guides. Idecidedto wrap first and varnish later, so the rod is still without varnish. I gotthe end of one of the tip sections when I noticed that the strips of canehad started to split about three inches down from the tip top. Three of theseams have started to open up. I am not sure when this happened. The rodis pretty beat up anyway, but I don't remember those seams being splitbefore. Is there anything I can do to remedy this situation? How seriousis this problem? I was just about to put a small decorative wrap in thelocation of the split seams. Will that hold it together or is it somethingthat must be fixed before the whole tip section falls apart? TIA,Matt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Matthew Jorgensen New England Regional Primate Research CenterResearch Fellow Harvard Medical Schooljorgy@warren.med.harvard.edumattj@ultranet.com "I think I fish, in part, because it's an antisocial, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. It's a nice position. No one considers you to be dangerous, but very little is expected of you."- John Gierach, Even Brook Trout Get the Blues (1992). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Thu May 8 10:08:43 1997 08:08:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Tip top seams splitting Matt: I would consider regluing the split first. Work the splits apart with smallstraight pins and work in very slightly thinned Titebond II (thinned by onlyabout 5%-10% with distilled water). Hide glue and even Elmer's can beusedbut Titebond II is probably best. After gluing, pressure wrap slightly withcotton or waxed fly tying thread. When dry, remove the thread and sandverylightly. Then you should wrap the affected area either with the decorativewrap you suggest or the white silk "invisible wrap affair. Should be goodasnew. --Rich------------------------------ I have slowly but surely been making progress on restoring my girlfriend'sfather's old cane rod. I have removed all the hardware, stripped the rod,replaced the hardware and am almost done rewrapping the guides. Idecidedto wrap first and varnish later, so the rod is still without varnish. I gotthe end of one of the tip sections when I noticed that the strips of canehad started to split about three inches down from the tip top. Three of theseams have started to open up. I am not sure when this happened. The rodis pretty beat up anyway, but I don't remember those seams being splitbefore. Is there anything I can do to remedy this situation? How seriousis this problem? I was just about to put a small decorative wrap in thelocation of the split seams. Will that hold it together or is it somethingthat must be fixed before the whole tip section falls apart? TIA,Matt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Matthew Jorgensen New England Regional Primate Research CenterResearch Fellow Harvard Medical Schooljorgy@warren.med.harvard.edumattj@ultranet.com "I think I fish, in part, because it's an antisocial, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. It's a nice position. No one considers you to be dangerous, but very little is expected of you."- John Gierach, Even Brook Trout Get the Blues (1992). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 07:32:51-0700 for Subject: Tip top seams splitting from maiello@yorku.ca Thu May 8 10:45:56 1997 (h3zMnbw8xdYaK5qJzWcX14dNYjZZMlcM@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA19873 for ; Subject: (Fwd) Thought provoking (fwd) Just a little story I thought you all would like.Mauro One day a fisherman was lying on a beautiful beach, with his fishing pole propped up in the sand and his solitary line cast out into the sparkling blue surf. He was enjoying the warmth of the afternoon sun and the prospect of catching a fish. About that time, an investment banker came walking down the beach, trying to relieve some of the stress of her workday. She noticed the fisherman sitting on the beach and decided to find out why this fisherman was fishing instead of working harder to make a living for himself and his family."You aren't going to catch many fish that way," said the investment banker to the fisherman. "You should be working rather than lying on the beach" The fisherman looked up at the investment banker, smiled and replied, "And what will my reward be?" "Well, you can get bigger nets and catch more fish" was the banker's answer. "And then what will my reward be?" asked the fisherman, still smiling. The investment banker replied, "You will make money and you'll be able to buy a boat, which will then result in larger catches of fish" "And then what will my reward be?" asked the fisherman again. The investment banker was beginning to get a little irritated with the fisherman's questions. "You can buy a bigger boat, and hire some people to work for you" she said. "And then what will my reward be?" repeated the fisherman. The investment banker was getting angry. "Don't you understand? You can build up a fleet of fishing boats, sail all over the world, and let all your employees catch fish for you" Once again the fisherman asked, "And then what will my reward be?" The investment banker was red with rage and shouted at the fisherman, "Don't you understand that you can become so rich that you will never have to work for your living again. You can spend all the rest of your days sitting on this beach, looking at the sunset. You won't have a care in the world." The fisherman, still smiling, looked up and said, "And what the hell youthink I'm doing right now ?" from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu May 8 11:00:45 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 8 May 1997 12:01:36 EDT Subject: Re: Lie Nielsen low angle block plane I don't have the Garrison book in front of me....but didn't he use three separate planes. I thought one was a low angle. My question is whether the 12 degree angle is too low for bambooplaning - this would be the same as the angle in the Stanley 920, compared to the20 degree angle in the Stanley 9 1/2? ThomasP@nacm.com I've been using a Stanley 60 1/2 which has the lower angle. I like it and wouldn't change. I think it's a case of getting used to things but I don't get the tear out problems people sometime associate with the 601/2 but I have a Hock iron which I keep sharp and don't try taking too much cane in each pass.LN use good steel and the tools are of the highest quality, I don't want to think about it too much or I'll be forced to go and buy one. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from m.boretti@agonet.it Thu May 8 11:26:49 1997 mago.agonet.it (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA23927 for; Thu, 8 May 1997 18:28:21 +0200 Subject: R: What defines a Master???? year.Sincerely,Marco Boretti. ----------Da: WayneCatt@aol.comA: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: mercoledá 7 maggio 1997 17.45 In a conversation with a student last night the question of whatdefinesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -thereisn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments?????? from cparham@crocker.com Thu May 8 12:28:55 1997 rmc1.crocker.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with SMTP id NAA13871 for; Thu, 8 May 1997 13:30:07 GMT Subject: Polyurethane glue Does anybody have experience using Titebond Polyurethane glue? They advertise it as one-part, waterproof and say it's even stainable. Woodworkers Warehouse has it on sale for $9.95 for 16 oz. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 8 12:42:23 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 10:42:10 -0700 Subject: RE: Tip top seams splitting 4.0.994.63 MattYou need to determine what type of glue was used in the first place.Inorder to get tiebond to reqlue you need to remove the old glue and getdown to a fresh surface, the only glues that allow you to reqlue withoutdoing this and not have the reoccurring problem of glue failure, is hideglue and epoxies.One of the reasons that old time wood workers used hideglue is because it is reversible and all you needed to do was rewet thesurface wait a little bit and add a little more glue by hydraulicing itin with your finger tip.Titebond needs to be able to grab the ell wallsin order to create a good bond. Patrick----------From: Rich Margiotta[SMTP:RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com]Sent: Thursday, May 08, 1997 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Tip top seams splitting Matt: I would consider regluing the split first. Work the splits apart withsmallstraight pins and work in very slightly thinned Titebond II (thinned byonlyabout 5%-10% with distilled water). Hide glue and even Elmer's can beusedbut Titebond II is probably best. After gluing, pressure wrap slightlywithcotton or waxed fly tying thread. When dry, remove the thread and sandverylightly. Then you should wrap the affected area either with thedecorativewrap you suggest or the white silk "invisible wrap affair. Should be goodasnew. --Rich------------------------------Date: 5/8/97 7:36 AM From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I have slowly but surely been making progress on restoring mygirlfriend'sfather's old cane rod. I have removed all the hardware, stripped the rod,replaced the hardware and am almost done rewrapping the guides. Idecidedto wrap first and varnish later, so the rod is still without varnish. I gotthe end of one of the tip sections when I noticed that the strips of canehad started to split about three inches down from the tip top. Three oftheseams have started to open up. I am not sure when this happened. Therodis pretty beat up anyway, but I don't remember those seams being splitbefore. Is there anything I can do to remedy this situation? How seriousis this problem? I was just about to put a small decorative wrap in thelocation of the split seams. Will that hold it together or is it somethingthat must be fixed before the whole tip section falls apart? TIA,Matt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Matthew Jorgensen New England Regional Primate Research CenterResearch Fellow Harvard Medical Schooljorgy@warren.med.harvard.edumattj@ultranet.com "I think I fish, in part, because it's an antisocial, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. It's a nice position. No one considers you to be dangerous, but very little is expected of you."- John Gierach, Even Brook Trout Get the Blues (1992). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------Received: by cpqm.saic.com with ADMIN;8 May 1997 07:31:50 -0800Return-Path: Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Thu, 8 May 9707:32:51-0700 Received: from d5.dial-12.mbo.ma.ultra.net (d5.dial-12.mbo.ma.ultra.net KAA09237 for Message-Id: Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: mattj@barnum.ultranet.com (Matthew Jorgensen) Subject: Tip top seams splittingMime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: mattj@mail.ultranet.com (Unverified)X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu May 8 14:56:34 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 8 May 1997 15:57:21 EDT Subject: Re: R: What defines a Master???? Personally I would have to disagree..... I bet I could make more rods than anyone.....they wouldn't cast a fly....and would more than likely break on the first cast. On 8 May 97 at 18:32, Marco Boretti wrote: year.Sincerely,Marco Boretti. ----------Da: WayneCatt@aol.comA: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: mercoledá 7 maggio 1997 17.45 In a conversation with a student last night the question of whatdefinesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -thereisn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments??????Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu May 8 15:09:39 1997 Subject: Re: Lie Nielsen low angle block plane Jon Lintvet wrote: I don't have the Garrison book in front of me....but didn't he usethree separate planes. I thought one was a low angle. My question is whether the 12 degree angle is too low for bambooplaning - this would be the same as the angle in the Stanley 920, compared tothe 20degree angle in the Stanley 9 1/2? ThomasP@nacm.com I've been using a Stanley 60 1/2 which has the lower angle. I like it andwouldn't change. I think it's a case of getting used to things but Idon't get the tear out problems people sometime associate with the 601/2but I have a Hock iron which I keep sharp and don't try taking too muchcane in each pass.LN use good steel and the tools are of the highest quality, I don't wantto think about it too much or I'll be forced to go and buy one. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean There shouldn't be any problem at all as long as the included angle between the bed (bedding angle) and the relief angle of the bevel is around 55 degrees. About 12 degrees rake is fine for a finishing plane.John from mattj@barnum.ultranet.com Thu May 8 15:49:26 1997 QAA01114 for ; Thu, 8 May 1997 16:49:55 - Subject: RE: Tip top seams splitting Thanks to Rich and Patrick for their suggestions thus far. I am pretty sure that hide glue was used on the rod (based on removing thereel seat and ferrules). Would it be possible to somehow simply loosentheglue at the trouble spot (by heating?) and then wrap the rod thustighteningup the seals? Or would I still need to put some more glue in the spaces?Right now the seals are opened up but they don't budge. Does that make adifference? Thanks again,Matt MattYou need to determine what type of glue was used in the first place.Inorder to get tiebond to reqlue you need to remove the old glue and getdown to a fresh surface, the only glues that allow you to reqlue withoutdoing this and not have the reoccurring problem of glue failure, is hideglue and epoxies.One of the reasons that old time wood workers used hideglue is because it is reversible and all you needed to do was rewet thesurface wait a little bit and add a little more glue by hydraulicing itin with your finger tip.Titebond needs to be able to grab the ell wallsin order to create a good bond. Patrick----------From: Rich Margiotta[SMTP:RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com]Sent: Thursday, May 08, 1997 11:56 AM Subject: Re: Tip top seams splitting Matt: I would consider regluing the split first. Work the splits apart withsmallstraight pins and work in very slightly thinned Titebond II (thinned byonlyabout 5%-10% with distilled water). Hide glue and even Elmer's can beusedbut Titebond II is probably best. After gluing, pressure wrap slightlywithcotton or waxed fly tying thread. When dry, remove the thread and sandverylightly. Then you should wrap the affected area either with thedecorativewrap you suggest or the white silk "invisible wrap affair. Should begood asnew. --Rich from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu May 8 17:18:37 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Plane angles John wrote: There shouldn't be any problem at all as long as the included anglebetween the bed (bedding angle) and the relief angle of the bevel isaround 55 degrees. About 12 degrees rake is fine for a finishing plane. I'm not sure about this. With a 12 degree rake and a 30 degree bevel, the included angle is 42 degrees, well below the 55 degree total yourecommend. Are you suggesting use of a 43 degree (=55-12) bevel or that the 12degree plane is appropriate for finish work but not for regular planing? ThomasP@nacm.com from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu May 8 17:22:00 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Hide glues Mindful of earlier comments about the poor properties of modern hideglues, does anyone know whether the granular hide glues sold by Garrett Wade(they list 2 types) for use in a heated glue pot measure up to old worldstandards TIA ThomasP@nacm.com from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 8 17:56:17 1997 Subject: Re: help In a message dated 97-05-08 07:07:51 EDT, you write: has anybody done a investigation into staggering as to which is bettergarrison's or the 2-2-2 method. I've used both, started out with the Garrison method, but settledwith the 2- 2-2 method. I've had no problems with the Garrisonmethod, the 2-2-2 just seems better. also whats the opinion on ovens-which is better wayne's or the hot airoven using a hot air gun. Am purchasing a hot air gun and dependent onthe oven I'm going to build, how good a hot air gun I need. This is how I heat treat my culms. You don't need an oven. I use a heat gun - a fairly cheap paint stripping heat gun, the top temp is listed as 1050 deg F. and scorch the inside of a culm split in half.Turn the pith black. Go extra slow over the nodes, and do it out-side or the smoke detector will go off. Then I flame the enamelside. This makes a very nice springy rod. Using the heat gungives the heat time to soak through. If you try using a torch onthe inside, the heat is too intense and burns the pith before theheat has time to soak through to the enamel side. Darryl Hayashida from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Thu May 8 18:36:31 1997 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA28251 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: In a conversation with a student last night the question of whatdefinesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -thereisn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments?????? Other peoples' opinion and nothing else. I'm sure we all can name people who have done a lot of something or doneit for a long time, badly, and couldn't be called masters. There arepeople widely known for the poor quality of their work. Anyone withmoney can buy advertising. I have a friend that writes books, but I'm nomaster. Best regards,Ed Estlow from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu May 8 18:46:24 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 8 May 1997 19:47:28 EDT Subject: Re: Lie Nielsen low angle block plane Whoa...you lost me there John. (that is my age and inexperience talking) What are the angles you are talking about? There shouldn't be any problem at all as long as the included angle between the bed (bedding angle) and the relief angle of the bevel is around 55 degrees. About 12 degrees rake is fine for a finishing plane.John Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from GLohkamp@aol.com Thu May 8 19:11:11 1997 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? Marty That would be a Guild. A robmakers guild is a interesting idea .Who would be the first master?they would certainly have to be living . Walt Carpenter ? HoagyCarmichael?maybe Glen Brackett? Gary from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 8 19:30:44 1997 Subject: Re: Polyurethane glue In a message dated 97-05-08 15:33:32 EDT, you write: Does anybody have experience using Titebond Polyurethane glue? They advertise it as one-part, waterproof and say it's even stainable. Woodworkers Warehouse has it on sale for $9.95 for 16 oz. I haven't used that paticular brand, but I've been using Excel, whichis a polyurethane glue. It's good and strong, and really waterproof.It has a four hour tack time, so there is a lot of time to straighten the blank. Be sure to use latex gloves because it bonds really well to skin,and will give you a slick coating on your skin which won't go awayuntil the top layer of your skin wears off. Darryl Hayashida from caddisty@borg.com Thu May 8 19:38:31 1997 maxcow.borg.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA08573 for (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA13028 for ; Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: What defines a Master???? In a conversation with a student last night the question of whatdefinesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -thereisn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments?????? Many can "master" an art but only a few can become it's masters. It is more than a skill level, or obtaining reconition or wealth. It is a "oneness" with your craft, a communion with it's tools and materials. My Grandfather was neither famous nor rich but was a master woodworker in every sense of the word. His work was beyond compare.He felt that each board had it's own spirit and destiny, and only by understanding that could one hope to get the most from each piece- to create what that piece of wood was meant to become. He taught me that only when one learns that the tools and materials of ones trade are not just a means to get the job done , to earn a living, but rather that each has it's own soul, and it's own true destiny can you hope to create beauty from what you do.It seems to me that anyone in time, with practice can make any number of excellent rods, or chairs or what ever be his craft. But only a "master" can can impart that special magic that can't be seen or named, perhaps not even felt, but rather sensed. A master is a teacher, that teaches not only how to do it, but instills a love, a respect, a spiritualness for the art. I can remember watching Gramps spend days touching , looking at aWalnut plank trying to see what piece of furniture was laying in waitjust below the surface. Reverence, Patience, Understanding and Skillthese make the Master. IMHO Jumping of the Soap Box Now,Bruce from EMiller257@aol.com Thu May 8 20:09:16 1997 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? My concept of a Master is a craftsman who possesses such skill at hiscraftthat difficult problems are handled routinely and the objects which heproduces exhibit such a high quality that it is plain for all to see. I thinkthat anyone who aspires to building cane rods has probably experiencedthefeeling of awe while holding a fine cane rod. These were made by Masters. Tight lines,Ed Miller from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu May 8 20:23:48 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 8 May 1997 21:24:52 EDT Subject: Re: Lie Nielsen low angle block plane I was referring to the definitions of the angles you were talking about.Bedding angle?Relief Angle?Rake? Sorry...I have not had that much experience with tools. On 8 May 97 at 19:46, Jon Lintvet wrote: Whoa...you lost me there John. (that is my age and inexperience talking) There shouldn't be any problem at all as long as the included angle between the bed (bedding angle) and the relief angle of the bevel is around 55 degrees. About 12 degrees rake is fine for a finishing plane.John Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman MacleanJon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jsbond@inforamp.net Thu May 8 21:20:43 1997 Subject: VERY IMPORT RE:CANE-POWELL I sent a copy the posting regarding cane to the Demarest for theircomments,I am posting their reply. JB Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 20:33:13 From: DEMARALON@aol.com (by way of James Bond)Subject: VERY IMPORT RE:CANE-POWELL Dear Jim, Both Harold and I are very appreciative of your taking the time to pass onCoffey" e-mail. We were getting rodmakers@wugate mail but justrecently itceased. Are in the process of correcting this situation. It would appear that the years are catching up with Walton Powell! Itwas inl990 that we last brought any Tonkin in for him and other than a note inhisfile date August l9, l994 Harold has had one - maybe two - conversationswithhim. The note indicates that Walton was interested in more l-3/4 - 2"Tonkin, which is the size he usually bought. He was told that a directshipment would not be before January 1995. Nothing ever happened . Hisso-called statements about "Mr Demarest told him that he hasn't had anycanethat he wouldbuy for the last two years" is simply not true. We don'tevenknow what time period he is talking about inasmuch as so many yearshavepassed since speaking to him. Regarding the family that supplies it -theynever grew it - Tonkin cane grows on hillsides that for many years werecontrolled by the Communist Government. It is true that it is increasingly difficult to maintain high standards, butwe continue to strive for just that. 60% of the Tonkin production is l-1/2-2". This allows a better selectionforquality than can be obtained from the less than 5% that grows 2" andover. We are expecting a shipment of 1-3/4-2" Tonkin to arrive the end of thismonth and, after clearing customs etc. to be available for distributionaboutJune 10th . While the 2-2-1/2 is and has been on order for quite sometimeand we have been assured shipment will be made this year, we still donothave any approximate date. Anything you can do to spread the truth would be most appreciated. Our e-mail address is DEMARALON@aol.com. Cordially, EileenDemarest James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu May 8 22:49:38 1997 Subject: Re: Plane angles Thomas Pindelski wrote: John wrote: There shouldn't be any problem at all as long as the included anglebetween the bed (bedding angle) and the relief angle of the bevel isaround 55 degrees. About 12 degrees rake is fine for a finishing plane. I'm not sure about this. With a 12 degree rake and a 30 degree bevel, theincluded angle is 42 degrees, well below the 55 degree total yourecommend.Are you suggesting use of a 43 degree (=55-12) bevel or that the 12degreeplane is appropriate for finish work but not for regular planing? ThomasP@nacm.com No. The use of the term rake is probably a misnomer here. I used it for want of a better word. I was refering to the angle of the iron back to the sole of the plane. In bevel-down planes, often the best finishing planes, the bevel angle can be reduced to facilitate planning on difficult grain patterns. This keeps the material from springing back quickly during the cut. In a bevel-down plane, this has no effect on the relief angel. This being the established bedding angle of the plane.JOhn from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu May 8 22:54:35 1997 Subject: Re: Lie Nielsen low angle block plane Jon Lintvet wrote: I was referring to the definitions of the angles you were talkingabout.Bedding angle? Bedding angle is the angle is the angle that the iron sitsin the plane.Relief Angle?Relief angle is the angle ground in the bevel (bezel if youwant the proper term)Rake?Rake (only a slight misnomer) angle between the sole of the planeand the iron.J. Sorry...I have not had that much experience with tools. On 8 May 97 at 19:46, Jon Lintvet wrote: Whoa...you lost me there John. (that is my age and inexperiencetalking) There shouldn't be any problem at all as long as the included anglebetween the bed (bedding angle) and the relief angle of the bevel isaround 55 degrees. About 12 degrees rake is fine for a finishing plane.John Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman MacleanJon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Thu May 8 23:47:04 1997 ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: VERY IMPORT RE:CANE-POWELL J> Date: Tue, 06 May 1997 20:33:13 From: DEMARALON@aol.com (by way of James Bond)Subject: VERY IMPORT RE:CANE-POWELL 60% of the Tonkin production is l-1/2-2". This allows a betterselection forquality than can be obtained from the less than 5% that grows 2" andover. We are expecting a shipment of 1-3/4-2" Tonkin to arrive the end ofthismonth and, after clearing customs etc. to be available for distributionaboutJune 10th . While the 2-2-1/2 is and has been on order for quite sometimeand we have been assured shipment will be made this year, we still donothave any approximate date. I just recently got some 2+" cane from Tuxedo Cane in California. Theywere a little solw on delivery but made up for it by throwing in anextra culm. Mike-- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly- fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Fri May 9 06:57:41 1997 Subject: What defines a Master? If I am not mistaken, in the context in which we are using it, the term"Master" comes from the guild system and designates someone who is qualified tofollowa trade independently--as opposed to an apprentice, who must be overseen. Itcomes from the Latin, magnus, "great". With that etymological note in mind, I would say that a Master issomeonewho can solve his/her own problems, and has important contributions tothedevelopment of both the product and the practice of (in this case) buildingrods. Furthermore, as the guild system had also an educative function: aMaster would be someone who helped others learn the trade. In one way or another, these qualities were mentioned in other posts. Ijust thought I'd give a bit of historical background for what seemed to meniceobservations. -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 9 10:08:57 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 08:08:42 -0700 Subject: FW: stuff 4.0.994.63 If you read my posting you will see that I wasn't trying to castdisparaging comments on the quality of the product that Mr. Demerastsells but just reporting what Mr. Powell told me over the phone. If itwas interpreted that way I humbly appoligize but if you notice in theposting that I said "how true this is I don't know". I think that he wasright in that the quality of cane comming out of China taday is oflesser quality than what came out of the past and that we should buy allthe good cane we can afford because sooner later there wont be as gooda quality that we have available today, the quality and scarcity of goodhardwood today is a good example of that. Once again if my commentsweretaken as bad mouthing Mr. Demerast that was not the intent but justreporting what Walton Powell told me over the phone. Patrick ----------From: Coffey, Patrick WSent: Monday, May 05, 1997 7:00 AM Subject: stuff Gentlemen First things first, Wayne I ordered one of your oven kits 6 monthsago, andmy email inquiries don't seem to be reaching you, anyhow just a friendlylittle reminder to let you know that I'm am still waiting but am gettingtothe point that I need it soon.Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and first ofall hedoesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the 40's,50'sand60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He said the cane todayisn'tworth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that he hasn't had any canethathe would buy for the last two years. Said he knows the Chinese familythatsupplies it and they are no longer growing any but are just scavengingcanethat they can find. How true this is I don't know. He did say that if it washim he would only by the 1 3/4" to 2" cane because the smaller diametercanehas more and better power fibers. His suggestion was to buy all the goodcaneone gets a chance at because before long all that will be available will begarbage.I asked him if he could advise me on cooking cane and both he and hissonsaid that he had worked out what they considered the ideal times andtemperatures. I asked if this was a secret or would he mind telling me inthat I was a ameture maker and was seeking help and information. This isthetemperatures and times he gave me:250 degrees 1 1/2 - 2 hours300 degrees 1 hour375-400 degrees 30 minutes Having never had the opportunity to play with one of his rods I'm notenoughof a expert to say one way or another if he knows what he's talking aboutother than going by his reputation. Patrick from santiago@ricochet.net Fri May 9 10:53:15 1997 IAA11322 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 08:53:09 - Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? Ed Estlow wrote: WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: In a conversation with a student last night the question of whatdefinesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -thereisn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments?????? Other peoples' opinion and nothing else. I'm sure we all can name people who have done a lot of something or doneit for a long time, badly, and couldn't be called masters. There arepeople widely known for the poor quality of their work. Anyone withmoney can buy advertising. I have a friend that writes books, but I'm nomaster. Best regards,Ed Estlow another thought on this...back when i was in construction we stated thatthe difference between the journeyman and apprentice was that ajourneyman knew how to fix his mistakes. it seems fair that a masterrodmaker would fit this definition. leo from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri May 9 11:10:34 1997 Sat, 10 May 1997 00:09:51 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: FW: stuff It's anyones guess as to the political situation now or in the future between China/everybody who isn't China, but I think the future availability of quality cane isn't so much one of a limited resource like hardwood as cane is a relatively fast growing grass, but rather what willbe allowed to be sold, which I suppose comes down to meaning the samething.The shortage of larger dia culms is something to wonder about though. I wonder if the cane of today really is of lesser quality of that " from the good old days". If the cane is growing on the same hills, with the same wind blowing etc why would it be inferior? Tony On Fri, 9 May 1997, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: If you read my posting you will see that I wasn't trying to castdisparaging comments on the quality of the product that Mr. Demerastsells but just reporting what Mr. Powell told me over the phone. If itwas interpreted that way I humbly appoligize but if you notice in theposting that I said "how true this is I don't know". I think that he wasright in that the quality of cane comming out of China taday is oflesser quality than what came out of the past and that we should buy allthe good cane we can afford because sooner later there wont be as gooda quality that we have available today, the quality and scarcity of goodhardwood today is a good example of that. Once again if my commentsweretaken as bad mouthing Mr. Demerast that was not the intent but justreporting what Walton Powell told me over the phone. Patrick ----------From: Coffey, Patrick WSent: Monday, May 05, 1997 7:00 AM Subject: stuff Gentlemen First things first, Wayne I ordered one of your oven kits 6 monthsago, andmy email inquiries don't seem to be reaching you, anyhow just afriendlylittle reminder to let you know that I'm am still waiting but am gettingtothe point that I need it soon.Called the elder Mr. Powell of Powell rods this weekend and first ofall hedoesn't really have any cane for sale. What he has is from the 40's,50'sand60's and is keeping for sons and grandchildren. He said the cane todayisn'tworth buying and that Mr. Demarest told him that he hasn't had any canethathe would buy for the last two years. Said he knows the Chinese familythatsupplies it and they are no longer growing any but are just scavengingcanethat they can find. How true this is I don't know. He did say that if itwashim he would only by the 1 3/4" to 2" cane because the smallerdiameter canehas more and better power fibers. His suggestion was to buy all thegood caneone gets a chance at because before long all that will be available willbegarbage.I asked him if he could advise me on cooking cane and both he and hissonsaid that he had worked out what they considered the ideal times andtemperatures. I asked if this was a secret or would he mind telling meinthat I was a ameture maker and was seeking help and information. Thisis thetemperatures and times he gave me:250 degrees 1 1/2 - 2 hours300 degrees 1 hour375-400 degrees 30 minutes Having never had the opportunity to play with one of his rods I'm notenoughof a expert to say one way or another if he knows what he's talkingaboutother than going by his reputation. Patrick /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri May 9 11:39:48 1997 Sat, 10 May 1997 00:38:55 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? When I was a boatbuilding (wooden boats) apprentice there was an old guy who kept to himself but always answered questions patiently and always knew the right way of doing things, always taking into account new ways and adjusting his way to do the job effeciently, sometimes this made him a bit cranky but he knew if it made the job better, so be it. He never got used to epoxy though.One day we were all on "smoko" (coffe break) and Old Bill was sorting through the huge pile of off cuts of timber and found a half slice of a stump of Spotted Gum with a limb on it sticking out about 1".He took this and bolted it to a bench and started chiseling.He chiseled for about 1 1/2 days all up and everybody stoped by to look at his work and sort of rub their chins and say meaningful things like "hummmm" and get back to work.In the end the job was complete and it turned out to be a replacement of a rotten part of the tailfeather of a boat built around the turn of the century in the same boatyard when he was an apprentice. I'd like to say the half of the stump was the same stump being replaced but that'sunlikely.In fact I asked Bill if that was so, being the romantic type, but Bill just looked at me as if to say "what do you reckon, kid?" If you know boats, you'd know no-one ever sees this part of a boat but Bill worked at it just like it was the figure head all the same.I'd call Old Bill a master, but I'm not sure you need to be as ancient.Old Bill wasn't officialy on the pay roll for at least 10 years before this, I guess he just need his daily fix of hand tools, wood shavings and like minded people who care enough to continue high workmanship while surounded by plastic and keep asking questions. Tony uOn Fri, 9 May 1997, Leo Santiago wrote: Ed Estlow wrote: WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: In a conversation with a student last night the question of whatdefinesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -thereisn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workuaICcxc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments?????? Other peoples' opinion and nothing else. I'm sure we all can name people who have done a lot of something ordoneit for a long time, badly, and couldn't be called masters. There arepeople widely known for the poor quality of their work. Anyone withmoney can buy advertising. I have a friend that writes books, but I'm nomaster. Best regards,Ed Estlow another thought on this...back when i was in construction we stated thatthe difference between the journeyman and apprentice was that ajourneyman knew how to fix his mistakes. it seems fair that a masterrodmaker would fit this definition. leo /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from davida@grove.ufl.edu Fri May 9 13:03:44 1997 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? A master is one, regardless of age and experience, who can bring out theaesthetic and or functional sensibilities of any object that he spendstime on. The master can instinctively know what is necessary to reachthatlevel of aesthetics or function that will satisfy any and all beholders. Just a thought... DADavid Allertondavida@grove.ufl.edu from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri May 9 14:25:26 1997 Subject: Re: FW: stuff Hi all,I am reminded of the terrible state of Dry fly neck in the early 70's.One enterprizing fellow saw a market and produced necks of a quality thatthe Asian markets couldn't imagine. Let us hope that some remarkable fellowdoes the same with arundaria.John from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri May 9 16:03:32 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id VAA23955 for; Fri, 9 May 1997 21:03:28 GMT Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: In a conversation with a student last night the question of whatdefinesa Master rod maker came up - I really didn't have a definate answer -thereisn't a test or such. Perhaps some ideas a) teaches othersb) known for their workc) buys a lot of advertisingd) has a friend that writes bookse) minimum of xx years at crafte) produced xx number of rods Any Thoughts or comments??????I would think that a master would be defined by; a complete knowledge ofhis craft/art and the ability to put said knowledge to use ,an attentionto detail in an almost extreme manner, an eye to create something thatis pleasing to the eye from all angles and perspectives,willingly givesthis knowledge to his students with the desire to see them become asgood or better than the teacher.These are the standards the artist's like michelangello had to live upto to be considered Masters why not us? We are artist and artisans atthe same time are we not. Bryant C. from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri May 9 16:09:08 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id VAA24275 for; Fri, 9 May 1997 21:09:05 GMT Subject: Re: Hide glues Thomas Pindelski wrote: Mindful of earlier comments about the poor properties of modern hideglues,does anyone know whether the granular hide glues sold by Garrett Wade(theylist 2 types) for use in a heated glue pot measure up to old worldstandards TIA ThomasP@nacm.comThe hide glues of to day are every bit as good as the old ones. Yes theymust be used in a hot glue pot and thinned every so often. the hold andgrip is quite strong as is evidenced by the number of guitar makersstill using hide glue for steel string insturments. Bryant C. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri May 9 16:35:16 1997 Subject: Re: Hide glues RO>Thomas Pindelski wrote:RO>>RO>> Mindful of earlier comments about the poor properties of modern hidegluesRO>> does anyone know whether the granular hide glues sold by GarrettWade (theRO>> list 2 types) for use in a heated glue pot measure up to old worldstandarRO>> for tenacity and reuseability?RO>>RO>> TIARO>>RO>> ThomasP@nacm.comRO>The hide glues of to day are every bit as good as the old ones. Yes theyRO>must be used in a hot glue pot and thinned every so often. the hold andRO>grip is quite strong as is evidenced by the number of guitar makersRO>still using hide glue for steel string insturments. Bryant C. Has anyone tried the hide glue from Franklin - makers of Titebond II. Itcomes in a bottle, just like titebond. It also says not to be useoutdoors nor to be allied to get wet. Under a coat of varnish is okay? Don Burns from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri May 9 16:52:40 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id VAA26643 for; Fri, 9 May 1997 21:52:36 GMT Subject: Re: Hide glues flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>Thomas Pindelski wrote:RO>>RO>> Mindful of earlier comments about the poor properties of modernhide gluesRO>> does anyone know whether the granular hide glues sold by GarrettWade (theRO>> list 2 types) for use in a heated glue pot measure up to old worldstandarRO>> for tenacity and reuseability?RO>>RO>> TIARO>>RO>> ThomasP@nacm.comRO>The hide glues of to day are every bit as good as the old ones. YestheyRO>must be used in a hot glue pot and thinned every so often. the hold andRO>grip is quite strong as is evidenced by the number of guitar makersRO>still using hide glue for steel string insturments. Bryant C. Has anyone tried the hide glue from Franklin - makers of Titebond II. Itcomes in a bottle, just like titebond. It also says not to be useoutdoors nor to be allied to get wet. Under a coat of varnish is okay? Don BurnsI would not consider the franklin no-heat hide glue as acceptable for myrods or the guitars that I repair, it just doesn't seem to have the gripthat I deem necessary for rods. I have all the hot hide glue stuffalready and I use it enough to keep in practice with it. Bryant C. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri May 9 17:14:52 1997 Subject: Re: Hide glues & Leonard rods RO>> Has anyone tried the hide glue from Franklin - makers of Titebond II.ItRO>> comes in a bottle, just like titebond. It also says not to be useRO>> outdoors nor to be allied to get wet. Under a coat of varnish is okay?RO>>RO>> Don BurnsRO>I would not consider the franklin no-heat hide glue as acceptable formyRO>rods or the guitars that I repair, it just doesn't seem to have the gripRO>that I deem necessary for rods. I have all the hot hide glue stuffRO>already and I use it enough to keep in practice with it. Bryant C. Thanks - saves me some money and wasted efforts. Did anyone "happen" to purchase the 2 tragic Leonards from the latestPhil Snyder list? Looks like I missed out by a few hours, I guess.Bummer. Seems 2 nice Leonards (7' & 7'9"- 1920's vintage) were left in abasement - some recent flood turned them into loose delaminated strips -with corroded fittings. The bags fell apart and the tubes are messed uptoo. Sold for $325 for the pair. Anybody want to guess as to the chance they'd be okay after regluing?The cane was discolored from being wet too. I thought they'd be worth ashot at that price. Brings up a 2nd question, someone posted that REC has new owners - dothey still have any Leonard parts? Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Fri May 9 18:40:05 1997 TAA05920 for ; Fri, 9 May 1997 19:41:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Catskill gathering Don I talked to Robert Reid over the winter and he indicated that Roscoewould be held this year - weekend after Labor day - you might want togivehim a call at 617-782-2513. Regards Chris from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri May 9 22:15:30 1997 Subject: Re: Hide glues flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>Thomas Pindelski wrote:RO>>RO>> Mindful of earlier comments about the poor properties of modernhide gluesRO>> does anyone know whether the granular hide glues sold by GarrettWade (theRO>> list 2 types) for use in a heated glue pot measure up to old worldstandarRO>> for tenacity and reuseability?RO>>RO>> TIARO>>RO>> ThomasP@nacm.comRO>The hide glues of to day are every bit as good as the old ones. YestheyRO>must be used in a hot glue pot and thinned every so often. the hold andRO>grip is quite strong as is evidenced by the number of guitar makersRO>still using hide glue for steel string insturments. Bryant C. Has anyone tried the hide glue from Franklin - makers of Titebond II. Itcomes in a bottle, just like titebond. It also says not to be useoutdoors nor to be allied to get wet. Under a coat of varnish is okay? Don BurnsThe stuff in the plastic bottle is pure dreck! Don't use it. Theground hide glue is very good.John from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat May 10 16:52:23 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 14:51:54 -0700 Subject: sandpaper 4.0.994.63 While watching Waynes video last night and talking to other makers Inoticed that people are using the gray colored no fill sand paper. Atthe shop I worked at we had a continuing problem with the spar typevarnish that was used (Behlens rock hard) that being fish eyes or orangepeel or some other adhesion problem. Then a one of the fellow makers,who was having the same problems did some investigation and found outthat what made the paper no fill was the mixing in of sterates in theglue by the manufacturer and that was the cause of the varnish problemswe were encountering. When we quit using that type of sand paper theproblems went away. If anybody is having varnish problems with sparvarnishes the use of that kind of paper could quite easily be thereason. Patrick from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat May 10 19:33:21 1997 Subject: Disconnect To the list, 5/10/97 Have been disconnected since I went seeking the elusive Hendrickson on5/5/97. Any messages relating to paper airplanes or related subjects,pleasesend again. Thanks. Bill from InfoMan@InfoGuys.com Sun May 11 06:46:24 1997 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? from the not-so-humble opinions of a wanna-be rod builder: "One who constructs an undeniably damn fine product; and because of histalent and passion for this craft probably makes a comfortable living,the demands for his product exceeding his ability to produce." Billy from whensel@ix.netcom.com Sun May 11 09:17:10 1997 ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR Has any rod makers who ofcourse enjoy the conversations relative to all the good things that come wraped in the package called split cane bamboo fly rods ever notice that in most fly shops the owners dont want to talk to long or loud regarding bamboo fly rods. The shop I hang out at Anglers All has a number of salespeople who fish splitt cane so the is naturaly converstaion in this area...however I do temper the loudness and excitment when a flyfisher comes into the store. I sense that no one wants the sales boat tiped in favor of a new flyfiher learning the merts of bamboo rods and just perhaps venturing into the world of split cane..because he mighnot ever come back to plastic. I never well. If I want a rod...these days I make one.Am I alone in this? Denver Bill from EMiller257@aol.com Sun May 11 10:08:05 1997 Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR Let's face it. Nothing in the way of grafite compares with the warmthand beauty of cane. No shop owner is going to promote cane when he cansella customer five plastic rod for five different situations, while the samecustomer could buy one decent cane rod and just fish. Shop owners needrepeat business and the guy that buys cane isn't coming in every sixmonthsto hear about "new and improved" models 'cause he doesn't have to! Ed M. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun May 11 10:15:24 1997 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? Billy Shelton wrote: from the not-so-humble opinions of a wanna-be rod builder: "One who constructs an undeniably damn fine product; and because of histalent and passion for this craft probably makes a comfortable living,the demands for his product exceeding his ability to produce." Billy BillyShow me a man "master" or not who makes a comfortable living makingcane rods and I'll show you a liar.John from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun May 11 10:20:02 1997 Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR Am I alone in this? Denver Bill Yes Bill,I also get the same feeling in the big, slick fly fishing mags. I get an aroma of not wanting to offend the buyers of the full page adds.John from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Sun May 11 16:48:13 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 11 May 1997 15:48:08 MDT #19314) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, Subject: TEST No need to read This is just a test Thanks from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Mon May 12 07:34:25 1997 05:33:46 -0700 Subject: Re: Hide glues & Leonard ro 5/12/978:21 AMRE>>Hide glues & Leonard rods Hi Don: I just missed them too! When I talked to Art Warner's wife, she said thatDwight Lyons was at the top of the list, so they'll be in good hands. --Rich------------------------------ RO>> Has anyone tried the hide glue from Franklin - makers of Titebond II.ItRO>> comes in a bottle, just like titebond. It also says not to be useRO>> outdoors nor to be allied to get wet. Under a coat of varnish is okay?RO>>RO>> Don BurnsRO>I would not consider the franklin no-heat hide glue as acceptable formyRO>rods or the guitars that I repair, it just doesn't seem to have the gripRO>that I deem necessary for rods. I have all the hot hide glue stuffRO>already and I use it enough to keep in practice with it. Bryant C. Thanks - saves me some money and wasted efforts. Did anyone "happen" to purchase the 2 tragic Leonards from the latestPhil Snyder list? Looks like I missed out by a few hours, I guess.Bummer. Seems 2 nice Leonards (7' & 7'9"- 1920's vintage) were left in abasement - some recent flood turned them into loose delaminated strips -with corroded fittings. The bags fell apart and the tubes are messed uptoo. Sold for $325 for the pair. Anybody want to guess as to the chance they'd be okay after regluing?The cane was discolored from being wet too. I thought they'd be worth ashot at that price. Brings up a 2nd question, someone posted that REC has new owners - dothey still have any Leonard parts? Don Burns ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 15:20:56-0700 Subject: Re: Hide glues & Leonard rods from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 12 09:08:59 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Planing - tempered or not? Well, I'm finding that planing strips which have been tempered for 15 minutes at 310F is harder - more splintering/tearing - than untreated strips. I'm using a Record #9 1/2 plane with a 30 degree bevel. Anyone care to comment? ThomasP@nacm.com from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 12 09:09:54 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Thread tensioners I just took delivery of a couple of thread tensioners from Jann's Netcraft - the deluxe models with numbered tension gauges at $5.75 each. First impression is of a beautifully made product. These are for use on my home made ring binder and compare somewhat favorably in the looks departmentto the 'two washers and a spring on a bolt' design I used in my Milward strip binder. ThomasP@nacm.com from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon May 12 09:15:28 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA21977 for; Mon, 12 May 1997 10:15:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Planing - tempered or not? Date: Mon, 12 May 97 07:07:00 PDT From: Thomas.Pindelski. Subject: Planing - tempered or not? Well, I'm finding that planing strips which have been tempered for 15 minutes at 310F is harder - more splintering/tearing - than untreated strips. I'm using a Record #9 1/2 plane with a 30 degree bevel. Anyone care to comment? ThomasP@nacm.com Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon May 12 09:17:54 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA14384 for; Mon, 12 May 1997 10:17:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Planing - tempered or not? Thomas: I can not concur. I also use the record 9 1/2, standard blade. I have planed non tempered, tempered for 7 minutes at 375, and tempered 30 minutes 375. I have seen no noticable difference in planability. Well, I'm finding that planing strips which have been tempered for 15 minutes at 310F is harder - more splintering/tearing - than untreated strips. I'm using a Record #9 1/2 plane with a 30 degree bevel. Anyone care to comment? ThomasP@nacm.com Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon May 12 09:24:29 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA07374 for; Mon, 12 May 1997 10:24:26 -0400 Subject: Re: Planing - tempered or not? Hmmmm, sorry. My message got chomped on that last post, lets try again.Thomas:I can not concur.I use a record 9 1/2, standard blade. I have planed non-tempered, tempered at 7 min at 375, and 30 min at 375. I have not noticed anychange in planability. Well, I'm finding that planing strips which have been tempered for 15 minutes at 310F is harder - more splintering/tearing - than untreated strips. I'm using a Record #9 1/2 plane with a 30 degree bevel. Anyone care to comment? ThomasP@nacm.com Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 12 10:01:35 1997 Mon, 12 May 1997 23:00:27 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Planing - tempered or not? You should find a change in the character of the cane after heat treating. It will be a bit harder.If you are tearing cane, you might try planing in the opposite direction and or reducing the depth of the iron, also reduce the throat gap. Tony On Mon, 12 May 1997, Thomas Pindelski wrote: Well, I'm finding that planing strips which have been tempered for 15 minutes at 310F is harder - more splintering/tearing - than untreated strips. I'm using a Record #9 1/2 plane with a 30 degree bevel. Anyone care to comment? ThomasP@nacm.com /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from RONGEY@aol.com Mon May 12 10:17:42 1997 Subject: What defines a master? The comments directed to defining a "master" remind me of a valuablelessonone of my favorite professors shared with me many years ago: Some people have many years of experience. Others have a year ofexperiencemany times! Tight lines! Ken Rongey from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 12 10:36:16 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 08:28:29 -0700 Subject: ovens 4.0.994.63 Whats the general opinion on ovens? Which one is better or is it 6 ofone and half a dozen of the other. I'm making a oven and need to decideon Wayne or the hot air gun oven. from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon May 12 11:10:26 1997 Subject: Re: ovens Patrick - I don't think you will find any two makers who heat treat exactlyalike. Either of the ovens you mention will work fine. I would just pickwhichever one appeals to you and learn how to use it. I use a rig I builtseveral years ago from salvaged parts from a old stove. Basically, Istraightened out the heating element from the oven and re-used thetemperature sensor and control. The element is 6 1/2 feet long and sits ina7 foot insulated box. A UL inspector would probaly have me arrested, but itworks fine. -- Tom from bjcoch@arkansas.net Mon May 12 12:37:12 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id RAA29504 for; Mon, 12 May 1997 17:37:08 GMT Subject: Re: Planing - tempered or not? Thomas Pindelski wrote: Well, I'm finding that planing strips which have been tempered for 15minutes at 310F is harder - more splintering/tearing - than untreatedstrips. I'm using a Record #9 1/2 plane with a 30 degree bevel. Anyone care to comment? ThomasP@nacm.comI have always finished the strips before tempering. Bryant C. from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 12 13:08:35 1997 ESMTP id NAA03969 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA13070 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id VNSHAUBH; Mon,12 May 1997 13:07:47 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) boundary="BeyondBoundary_1_Mon_May_12_13:07:43_1997__29" Subject: Finish planing before tempering? --BeyondBoundary_1_Mon_May_12_13:07:43_1997__29 This brings up a interesting point--why do the tempering before finalplaning?Why not bind the strips right before gluing and heat treat them, then bindandglue after they've cooled down. This would seem to to reduce thepossibility ofmoisture re-entry because there would be a lot less lag time between heattreating and gluing. Unless the heat treating makes plaing easier--which according to a recentpostmay be the opposite of the truth--why not plane before tempering? Still on my first rod--basic questions.... Don ------------------Original text Thomas Pindelski wrote: Well, I'm finding that planing strips which have been tempered for 15minutes at 310F is harder - more splintering/tearing - than untreatedstrips. I'm using a Record #9 1/2 plane with a 30 degree bevel. Anyone care to comment? ThomasP@nacm.comI have always finished the strips before tempering. Bryant C. --BeyondBoundary_1_Mon_May_12_13:07:43_1997__29 Part 1.2 Name: ATTRIBS.BNDType: unspecified type (application/octet- stream)Encoding: x-uuencode --BeyondBoundary_1_Mon_May_12_13:07:43_1997__29-- from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon May 12 13:13:36 1997 ESMTP id NAA09044 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA14866 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id UDSMARBE; Mon,12 May 1997 13:12:42 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Silk Could someone please explain the various brands and size #'s of rodwrappingsilk? What is the preferred size and brand (Elephant?) for trout-sized rods, ordoessize not matter? I have the anglers wkshop catalog--what spool(s) do yourecommend? Don DeLoach from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon May 12 13:21:32 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA04472 for; Mon, 12 May 1997 14:21:17 -0400 Subject: Re: Finish planing before tempering? Hello all, I would be leery to temper after final planing, as the dimensions will change as evidenced by the bindings on my rough planed strips to be tempered are loose after tempering. Just my observations....Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from bjcoch@arkansas.net Mon May 12 13:34:30 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id SAA02792 for; Mon, 12 May 1997 18:34:22 GMT Subject: Re: Finish planing before tempering? Don DeLoach wrote: This brings up a interesting point--why do the tempering before finalplaning?Why not bind the strips right before gluing and heat treat them, then bindandglue after they've cooled down. This would seem to to reduce thepossibility ofmoisture re-entry because there would be a lot less lag time betweenheattreating and gluing. Unless the heat treating makes plaing easier--which according to arecent postmay be the opposite of the truth--why not plane before tempering? Still on my first rod--basic questions.... Don The method I use is as folows; split the cane into strips, straightenall the strips, plane the strips bind the rod sections, temper to amedium brown color(350 deg f for 9-11 min), glue and rebind,straightenbefore glue sets, scrape residue, finish blanks, wrap and varnish wraps. I prefer to do the completion work after the blank is sealed,so there isno worry here in the humid south, I use a marine grade spar varnish withtwo spit coats for penetration before final coats brushed thinly on theblank. That way I can have a smooth rod to install all hardware on andthe varnishing of the wraps of silk will be all that is left to do. Bryant C. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon May 12 13:59:33 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 May 1997 15:00:35 EDT Subject: Thread Sizes from what I have learned there is a bit more tradition involved in the wrapping of the rods. The two sizes that I am familiar with is 40 and 60. 40 is for the smaller rods (trout rods) and tip sections of larger rods. 60 is for butt sections and larger rods. I may have this switched.Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Mon May 12 13:59:57 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 12 May 1997 15:00:33 EDT Subject: Regarding: Heat treating after planing Well, I am new to this as you all know but something sticks out in this question. When heat tempering as a result of the moisture being baked out, there is a loss in dimension size. So in theory, if you strips were a bit oversized then this could work if we all knew how much a butt section of .xxx was reduced in size. However, I would find it hard to believe that the size reduction occurs uniformly over the entire strip.Just my .02 Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from s.wang@cummins.com Mon May 12 15:04:21 1997 16:03:36 -0400 smap (3.2) (5.65v3.2/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Finish planing before tempering? two spit coats for penetration before final coats What is spit coat?-- Simon T. C. Wang s.wang@cummins.comSoftware Engineer Cummins Engine Company, Inc. http://www.cummins.com4080 West Jonathan Moore PikeCMC-7003, WestHill PlazaColumbus, IN 47201 Tel: (812)377-7632Fax: (812)377-1110 from bjcoch@arkansas.net Mon May 12 15:56:25 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id UAA09549 for; Mon, 12 May 1997 20:56:20 GMT Subject: Re: Finish planing before tempering? Simon Wang wrote: two spit coats for penetration before final coats What is spit coat?--Forgive me for I was un-clear on my previous post. I said I finishplaning before tempering and that is correct but..I final scrape to enddemensions after the tempering process. Also to clairify-- a spit coatis a varnish that has been thinned in a 1 part varnish 3 parts thinnerratio. This is designed to penetrate and seal the pores of thewood,bamboo ect. that you will afterward use a 1:1/2 thinned varnish ora straight varnish for your build coat(s). Bryant C. from MasjC1@aol.com Mon May 12 17:30:00 1997 Subject: Re: Finish planing before tempering? Bryant, What do you mean by a spit coat? Mark C. In a message dated 5/12/97 7:47:07 PM, you wrote: The method I use is as folows; split the cane into strips, straightenall the strips, plane the strips bind the rod sections, temper to amedium brown color(350 deg f for 9-11 min), glue and rebind,straightenbefore glue sets, scrape residue, finish blanks, wrap and varnish wraps. I prefer to do the completion work after the blank is sealed,so there isno worry here in the humid south, I use a marine grade spar varnish withtwo spit coats for penetration before final coats brushed thinly on theblank. That way I can have a smooth rod to install all hardware on andthe varnishing of the wraps of silk will be all that is left to do. Bryant C. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon May 12 17:40:35 1997 SAA01249 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 18:42:50-0400 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? John You're right - I never heard of a selfmade millionaire rodmaker.! I gave this subject some thought and here is my observations. There is a lot of accomplished rodmakers out there so whatseperates the men we refer to as Masters from the rest of the field. It islike selecting all stars and then who gets in the Hall of Fame. Mainlyit is the rodmakers body of work evaluated over a period of time by others-namely critics and peers. Another fact that helps alot is that you haveto be very old or DEAD!. I do not think that a rodmaker can call himself a master - but others can. Does this make sense to the populace outthere? Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon May 12 17:47:02 1997 SAA01322 for ; Mon, 12 May 1997 18:49:16-0400 Subject: Re: Thread Sizes Jon Do not think you got you thread sizes rightThe more "O's" the finer the thread. Big rodsstart with a size "A" thread - OO is smaller then OOO then OOOOa 6xO thread is very fine and would be used for tipping. FYI for bigger rods then you get to size C and upwardsin the alphabet for saltwater rods, boat rods and the like. Interesting thing about rodmaking is that you learn more stuff about things then you ever enmagined. On Mon, 12 May 1997 14:59:32 +0000, Jon Lintvet wrote: from what I have learned there is a bit more tradition involved in the wrapping of the rods. The two sizes that I am familiar with is 40 and 60. 40 is for the smaller rods (trout rods) and tip sections of larger rods. 60 is for butt sections and larger rods. I may have this switched.Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean Regards Chris from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 12 18:01:11 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Tempering before planing Thanks for the interesting feedback. It occurs to me that, using Nyatex, and assuming that tempering canfollow planing, you can kill two birds with one stone by planing first, gluing, then tempering the bamboo + heat treating the Nyatex in one pass throughthe oven. As I recall, Wayne's book speaks to enhancing the strength of Nyatex at something like 300F for a few minutes - which is pretty much thetempering requirement to get moisture out and color in. Does that sound right? ThomasP@nacm.com from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 12 18:14:38 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: O ring source I'm moving to completion on my ring binder - largely following the style illustrated in Clemens's book in the Tools chapter. I used nylon rollers sold in the bathroom hardware section - with three at each of three stations supporting the rod. Two on a horizontal plane, the third above and moveable vertically with a locking device to hold it andthe rod in place. Two of the three supports are anchored to the 24" long base, with the third free-standing - like in the Flexcoat ads. A 'T' extension at the center of the main base extends to hold tensioners, silk thread and the directional eyelet. No motor,,,yet! I would like to fit the rollers with rubber/vinyl O rings to provide a softer supporting surface than the hard nylon affords, but have had difficult finding O rings to fit - the diameter is some 1 1/2". Required thickness is probably 3/32". The selection listed in the Enco catalog is not appropriate and MSC's catalog sells in large quantities only. Any ideas for a good supply source, anyone? ThomasP@nacm.com BTW, construction cost (using some nice old birch from the garage's recesses) was $15, including vertical 4 1/2" slider bolts for the top roller. These rollers are especially neat as they run on a (supplied) inner nylon plain bearing which is wider than the roller's thickness, thus allowing the bearing to be clamped to the upright and letting the roller spin freely. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon May 12 21:50:34 1997 Subject: RE:O ring source RO>I would like to fit the rollers with rubber/vinyl O rings to provide aRO>softer supporting surface than the hard nylon affords, but have hadRO>difficult finding O rings to fit - the diameter is some 1 1/2". RequiredRO>thickness is probably 3/32". The selection listed in the Enco catalog isnotRO>appropriate and MSC's catalog sells in large quantities only. RO>Any ideas for a good supply source, anyone? Try any hydraulic supply or repair store. Ask for "Viton" o-rings forlonger life, LA's smog ate natural rubber o-rings on my Clemens Lathe. Don Burns from measter@sdcoe.k12.ca.us Mon May 12 23:11:07 1997 intergate.sdcoe.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id WAA08055; Mon, 12 Subject: PIE CUTTERS A couple months back all the hot talk was about these splitters from Hida tool. What happened? Did they work? Mark from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue May 13 00:00:28 1997 Subject: RE:Silk RO>Could someone please explain the various brands and size #'s of rodwrappingRO>silk? RO>What is the preferred size and brand (Elephant?) for trout-sized rods,or doRO>size not matter? I have the anglers wkshop catalog--what spool(s) doyouRO>recommend? RO>Don DeLoach Don, USA thread is measured differently than the rest of the world. Size "A"(usa) is about the same size as metric size 50, size 3/0 (usa) is aboutthe same as metric 100. If you look at Belvoirdale's URL, I think, hehas them backwards. Angler's has them correctly labeled in theircatalog. Which of the two sizes to buy? Depends. Size "A" is the largest that I'duse on a fly rod. But what are you going to do with it - 3/0 (100) takesmore turns to equal a size "A" (50) wrap. This is handy for replacingsmall intermediate wraps on old rods. Allows you a few more turns tohide your tag-end under. If you are just wrapping simple guide wraps,then size "A" (50) thread is fine. Remember - USA sizes, the higher the letter the thicker the thread,metric #'s - just reverse this. For the USA 3/0 thread - just rememberthat 3/0 snakes guides are tiny. Elephant thread was purpose made for rod wrapping, Angler's thread isYLI silk sewing thread. I've used both. If you don't over-tension thethread - it all works. As for colors - you pick-em. Don Burns from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue May 13 05:08:00 1997 Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 05:09:08 -0500 Subject: RE: PIE CUTTERS 4.0.994.63 I got the 12 segment pie cutter ($110.00+shipping).I split two culms. It works great.Cuts straight even pieces.Then of course I had to hand split to 24.The cutter is definitely better than myself.I was able to get 23 pieces. Olaf Borge, Systems Programmer/Basic SystemsCNO/AISSUniversity of Illinois728 West Roosevelt RoadChicago, Illinois 60607-7007Phone: (312)996-5212 INTERNET: oborge@uic.edu ----------From: mark east[SMTP:measter@sdcoe.k12.ca.us]Sent: Monday, May 12, 1997 3:27 PM Subject: PIE CUTTERS A couple months back all the hot talk was about these splitters from Hida tool. What happened? Did they work? Mark from InfoMan@InfoGuys.com Tue May 13 07:33:23 1997 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? John Zimny wrote: Billy Shelton wrote: from the not-so-humble opinions of a wanna-be rod builder: "One who constructs an undeniably damn fine product; and because ofhistalent and passion for this craft probably makes a comfortable living,the demands for his product exceeding his ability to produce." Billy BillyShow me a man "master" or not who makes a comfortable living makingcanerods and I'll show you a liar.John John,I think comfortable is relative. Someone else on the list likened it(comfortable) to being a millionaire. Having made a living as amusician, I can surely appreciate the efforts in pursuing an unlikelysource of income in the name of passion. Comfortable, in my opinion, issimply and humbly being able to make ends meet, with maybe a littleextra to save. I do know of one person I consider truly a "Master",although he is in the field of making guitar amplifiers and not bamboorods. He was prodidgal in his youth, being able to exactly duplicateclassics. His life style is very humble AND he gets more orders for hisproducts than he is able to produce - there is a two year waiting list.And although "tube" guitar amplifiers are NOT bamboo rods they do havesimilarities. They have a small specialized market, both have atradition and can be made by hand by a single individual, both arerelatively expensive to their competition, and both are very difficultto make a living at. Is he a liar? No. He's a true Master at his craft. Best,Billy from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Tue May 13 08:01:38 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? John,I think comfortable is relative. Someone else on the list likened it(comfortable) to being a millionaire. Having made a living as amusician, I can surely appreciate the efforts in pursuing an unlikelysource of income in the name of passion. Comfortable, in my opinion, issimply and humbly being able to make ends meet, with maybe a littleextra to save. I do know of one person I consider truly a "Master",although he is in the field of making guitar amplifiers and not bamboorods. He was prodidgal in his youth, being able to exactly duplicateclassics. His life style is very humble AND he gets more orders for hisproducts than he is able to produce - there is a two year waiting list.And although "tube" guitar amplifiers are NOT bamboo rods they do havesimilarities. They have a small specialized market, both have atradition and can be made by hand by a single individual, both arerelatively expensive to their competition, and both are very difficultto make a living at. Is he a liar? No. He's a true Master at his craft. Best,Billy Billy, Dont't keep me in suspense. Who is that tube amp master guy? Bob Matarazzo from InfoMan@InfoGuys.com Tue May 13 08:31:59 1997 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? Bob Matarazzo X2631 wrote: snip Dont't keep me in suspense. Who is that tube amp master guy? Bob Matarazzo Hi Bob,Does the name Dumble ring a bell? ;-) Best,Billy from sneider@ottawa.net Tue May 13 09:31:48 1997 dns.ottawa.net (8.8.5/1.2) with SMTP id KAA26248 for Subject: Disconnect Disconnect" The pride of the artisan in his art and it's uses is pride in himself....It is in his skill and ability to make things as he wishes them to be thathe rejoices."George Santayana from plipton@sunvalley.net Tue May 13 10:59:59 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA192 0600 Subject: Ovens Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Whats the general opinion on ovens? Which one is better or is it 6ofone and half a dozen of the other. I'm making a oven and need todecideon Wayne or the hot air gun oven. Patrick: I prefer Wayne's oven design. Unfortunately, I learned that the hardway. The heat gun oven is noisy. I work in a quiet spot and the noisegets on my nerves after a while. The more relevant trick is setting thetemperature. The variable temperature heat guns have a dial that goes from 1 to 10, maybe some brands go 1 to 20, it begs the point. You haveto use a thermometer placed in the tube to read temperature. How muchwill the heat go up when you go from #7 to #8 on the heat gun? It is aguess. My gun, made by Milwaukee, does not repeat the heat settings veryprecisely. You can easily overshoot the temperature in the gun and burnthe cane. Case in point: my oven read 225 degrees after 20 minutes ofheating, I turned the dial from #7 to #8 and in 10 minutes it read 300degrees so I put my cane in the oven. The oven is noisy remember, so Ilike to go outside for a while to get away from it. After 15 minutes, Icame back to check on things and there was fire in the hole. The ovenhad gone to 400 degrees and my strips were history. There are severallessons learned from my mistake starting with don't do two things atonce. Now with Wayne's oven there is some safety built in the design. The oventhermostat has an upper limit switch that shuts the heat off. It is alot less likely to set your strips on fire by accident. You might needto calibrate the thermostat to be sure the dial matches statedtemperatures but Wayne has specified a pretty good unit (hence theprice). The oven is silent so it is unobtrusive and you can set it tolow temperatures and use it as a hot box. Since Wayne is puttingtogether some kits for Grayling, it will be easy to get parts. Let me know what you decide. Good Luck... Smokin Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Tue May 13 11:02:40 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 13 May 1997 12:03:47 EDT Subject: Tensioners I have a question for everyone. I really do not like using tensioners that put the tension on the thread itself. Rather, I like the kind that puts the tension on the spool. However, in the one I made when I fist started out making graphite rods doesn't;t work very well. There seems to be too much contact between the spool and what not. Which ever way the spool is turning, the wing nut will tighten or loosen. Does anyone have any suggestions that work?Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue May 13 11:35:02 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA06439 for; Tue, 13 May 1997 12:34:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Tensioners what not. Which ever way the spool is turning, the wing nut will tighten or loosen. Does anyone have any suggestions that work? How about "double nutting"???Ok, OK, keep it clean...Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from mattj@barnum.ultranet.com Tue May 13 12:41:33 1997 Subject: Re: Tensioners There is a great article in American Angler by C. Boyd Pfeiffer withsuggestions on how to make a rod wrapping stand and thread tensioner. Ican't recall the date of the article, but could look it up. The tensionerset up has the thread spool laying on its side on top of a piece ofaluminum. There is a bolt that sticks through the hole in the spool andalso sticks through the eye section of two eye bolts that are on eithersideof the spool. The other ends of the eye bolts stick through 2 holes in thealuminum on either side of the spool. On the bottom of the aluminum theeyebolts are attached with washers, nuts and tension springs. Looks something like this: _ |---------| _==( )===| Spool |===( )== Bolt| |---------| | Eye Bolt=============================={|} {|}{|} {|}| | Pfeiffer also suggests putting a string of plastic milk container betweenthe aluminum and the spool as a smoother surface. The whole tensiondevicecan then be attached to a piece of wood (or whatever) and attached to yourrod holding set up. Attach a stripping guide to the piece of wood for thethread to feed through. I just recently built one of these contraptions and I love it! Hope that helps. Matt ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Matthew Jorgensen New England Regional Primate Research CenterResearch Fellow Harvard Medical Schoolmattj@ultranet.comjorgy@warren.med.harvard.edu "I think I fish, in part, because it's an antisocial, bohemian business that, when gone about properly, puts you forever outside the mainstream culture without actually landing you in an institution. It's a nice position. No one considers you to be dangerous, but very little is expected of you."- John Gierach, Even Brook Trout Get the Blues (1992). ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ I have a question for everyone. I really do not like using tensioners that put the tension on the thread itself. Rather, I like the kind that puts the tension on the spool. However, in the one I made when I fist started out making graphite rods doesn't;t work very well. There seems to be too much contact between the spool and what not. Which ever way the spool is turning, the wing nut will tighten or loosen. Does anyone have any suggestions that work?Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue May 13 13:02:21 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Heat ovens Philip Lipton makes some excellent points about ovens and his experiences with the Milwaukee heat gun. FWIW, the J shaped oven (concept from Frank Neunemann's page) I builtdoes not suffer from these problems. The Bosch LED heat gun is verypredictable - set it to 13 (out of 15) and it generates a rock steady 182C over a 4foot length. It is also VERY quiet - much quieter than, say, a hair dryer - just a faint 'woosh' and a gentle ticking sound. Temperatures are also dead steady over 20 minute time spans. I cannot speak for other designs, but the open top of the long end of the J permits heat and moisture to escape. The latter appears especially desireable. The Bosch 1435LED gun cost me ~$110. The galvanized double wall pipes -2' straight + U + 4 foot straight about $30. The wooden stand was cobbled up from old scraps. The thermometer came from MSC for $10 - it reads to300C and is robust. The sensor is a couple of millimeters in diameter and some 4" long. My mum also bought me this heat gun so I now have two. The second isunused and for sale to anyone interested. ThomasP@nacm.com from cparham@crocker.com Tue May 13 15:43:30 1997 rmc1.crocker.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA00243 for; Tue, 13 May 1997 16:43:03 GMT Subject: Re: Tensioners Jon Lintvet wrote: I have a question for everyone. I really do not like usingtensioners that put the tension on the thread itself. Rather, Ilike the kind that puts the tension on the spool. However, in theone I made when I fist started out making graphite rods doesn't;t workvery well. There seems to be too much contact between the spool andwhat not. Which ever way the spool is turning, the wing nut willtighten or loosen. Does anyone have any suggestions that work?Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean There are two basic problems in placing tension on the spool. 1) The thread may slip between the layers on the spool resulting is poor control. 2) As you use thread over time the radius of the spool is reduced and thus the tension increases. Singer figured it out a long time ago. Tension the thread. from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Tue May 13 19:38:43 1997 Subject: Re: Tensioners There are two occasions when thread tension is required in rodmaking1st is for binding - I have equipped my Garrison style binder withspare tensioners picked up from the local sewing machine store.2nd for wrapping guides etc. - I simply draw the thread thru a thickbook such as the local telephone book - about two thirds down is the righttension for rod tips.Both provide consistent tension and are easy on thread. Jim. from tpaulsen@ecity.net Tue May 13 20:45:01 1997 Subject: Re: O ring source if you are fortunate enough to live in an area where there is a lot ofagriculture you might want to try one of the farm and fleet type of stores,they usually have a fairly large selection of o rings. otherwise get intouch with a heavy equipment company such as one of the case powerequipmentfranchises hope this helps, Terry PaulsenAt 04:14 PM 5/12/97 PDT, you wrote: I'm moving to completion on my ring binder - largely following the style illustrated in Clemens's book in the Tools chapter. I used nylon rollers sold in the bathroom hardware section - with threeat each of three stations supporting the rod. Two on a horizontal plane, the third above and moveable vertically with a locking device to hold it andthe rod in place. Two of the three supports are anchored to the 24" long base, with the third free-standing - like in the Flexcoat ads. A 'T' extension at the center of the main base extends to hold tensioners, silk thread andthe directional eyelet. No motor,,,yet! I would like to fit the rollers with rubber/vinyl O rings to provide a softer supporting surface than the hard nylon affords, but have had difficult finding O rings to fit - the diameter is some 1 1/2". Required thickness is probably 3/32". The selection listed in the Enco catalog isnot appropriate and MSC's catalog sells in large quantities only. Any ideas for a good supply source, anyone? ThomasP@nacm.com BTW, construction cost (using some nice old birch from the garage's recesses) was $15, including vertical 4 1/2" slider bolts for the top roller. These rollers are especially neat as they run on a (supplied) inner nylon plain bearing which is wider than the roller's thickness, thus allowing the bearing to be clamped to the upright and letting the roller spin freely. from wishbone@headwaters.com Wed May 14 01:08:46 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Re: U-40 products Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 13:33:43 -0400 From: John Zimny Subject: U-40 products Hi All,A while back there was a gentleman who was the owner of U- 40Products who had some comments on the surface preparation of parts to be joined with epoxy adhesives. He seemed to be quite expert and I'd very much >like to contact him. Can anyone provide me with his name and a way to cintact him.ThanksJohn Hey John! Sorry for the delay here, but the fellow who wrote the article is: Ralph O'QuinnU-40Trondak Inc11710 Airport Rd.Suite 300Everett, WA(206) 290-7530 Hope this helps. Regards,Ian H. ScottWishbone Custom Rods2 Henry St., R.R. #1Grand Valley, Ont.L0N 1G0 519-928-2906http://www.absolute-sway.com/wishbone "It is in men as in soils, where sometimes thereis a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."Jonothan Swift IAW from SalarFly@aol.com Wed May 14 01:38:43 1997 Subject: Sharpening Tips Yesterday I was flattening my sharpening stones, andI happened to think with all the new guys that havejoined the list, maybe this is worth posting. To get a sharp edge use a Japanese waterstone. Ihaven't tried the hard felt on a powered buffer assomeone else on the list has reccommended, butI used to pride myself on getting a sharp edge usingArkansas sharpening stones. Using the Japanesewaterstone is orders of magnitude better. I use two combination stones, the 800 / 4000 andthe 1000 / 6000. Usually it isn't necessary to usethe 800 unless your plane blade is nicked or really bad. I use an on the stone jig because I use twodifferent stones, and if the thicknesses of the twostones isn't the same you will get different angleswith the off the stone type of jig. Grind flat and polish the back of your blade. Thisstep and using a Japanese water stone is thesecret to a really sharp blade. Of course youdon't need to do the whole back of the blade,just the end where the edge is. Having twoperfectly flat surfaces, the back and the bevelintersecting each other is a really sharp edge. Get a Hock blade. I recently compared thestock blade and a Hock blade. The Hock blade is much better. Back to why I was flattening my waterstones.Waterstones are designed to wear awayquickly to always have a fresh surface tosharpen the blades, and they tend to getbowed. Your first clue that this is happeningis when you go to the next finer grit only aportion of the bevel gets polished. To flattenthe stone, get a metal plate or piece of thickplate glass, sprinkle water on it, and rub yourstone around in a circular pattern. Your bevelhas to be straight. If it isn't there will be portionsof the edge that doesn't get polished. You mightnot be able to see it, but it happens. Once the bevel is polished, turn the blade overand do a few passes on the back with the 6000grit. This takes off the wire edge that forms inpolishing the bevel. Darryl Hayashida from sleach@plessey.co.za Wed May 14 02:30:02 1997 09:24:29 +0200 via smap (V3.1) 14 May 97 09:46:25 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Tensioners On 13 May 97 at 12:02, Jon Lintvet wrote: what not. Which ever way the spool is turning, the wing nut willtighten or loosen. Does anyone have any suggestions that work? The problem is that the spool turns the washers, spring and wing nut. Best thing to do is to prevent the washer, that is in contact with the spool, from turning. The easiest way is to flatten on side of the threaded shaft or bolt that runs through the spool. File it down to about 1/4 of its diameter. If you screw a nut onto the shaft before you start you can use this to clean up the thread when you have finished. Get a washer with a smaller diameter than the shafts original and file it out till it fits snugly on the shaft but cannot rotate. I made a tensioner with two beer bottle tops in contact with the spool, a spring, washer and wing nut. It worked OK but I threw it out when it rusted and have used the old telephone book ever since. Hope this helpsSteve Leach RegardsSteve Leach from jshimizu@m2.sprynet.com Wed May 14 02:35:39 1997 ; Wed, 14 May 1997 00:36:03 -0700 Subject: Cheap Ferrules Hello Everyone- I am new to this newsgroup and to cane rodmaking - introduced to it bya friend a year ago and just now getting things together... I will be starting on the *first* rod soon and have been collectingthe various paraphernalia...as far as other rod parts, I've beentrying to get cheap stuff to go along with the "sacrificial culm" (tocoin Mr. Cattanach's term)... Anyone know of a place that might have cheap ferrules, possibly madewith materials other than nickel silver? I know I'd scavenge a nickelsilver one at a later date... Thanks in advance... jshimizu@sprynet.com from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed May 14 09:12:16 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Glue for cork ring hand grips I would be grateful for suggestions for the best glue to use for glueing up cork hand grips. Thank you ThomasP@nacm.com from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed May 14 09:17:27 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: The Angler's Bamboo I just took delivery of my copy of Luis Marden's book - The Angler'sBamboo - and recommend it strongly to anyone interested in the growing andhistory of babmoo for fly rods. Mr. Marden is not only a fine photographer, he also writes beautifu;;y. This little tome takes all of an hour to read and provides pleasure well in excess of its weight. ThomasP@nacm.com from khube@benmeadows.com Wed May 14 09:29:42 1997 Subject: Re: Glue for cork ring hand grips At 07:10 AM 5/14/97 PDT, you wrote: I would be grateful for suggestions for the best glue to use for glueing up cork hand grips. Thank you ThomasP@nacm.com============================================================================== I've recently completed two grips using Titebond II which is waterproofandeasy to use. May be a few years before I can tell how they hold up, butlooks promising. Karl HUbe from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Wed May 14 10:01:51 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: Glue for cork ring hand grips I would be grateful for suggestions for the best glue to use for glueingup cork hand grips. Thank you ThomasP@nacm.com Thomas, I've always used Crystal Clear epoxy which I purchase from theCabela's catalog. Bob Matarazzo from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed May 14 10:30:41 1997 ESMTP id KAA23994 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA24494 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id AQPEBVBM; Wed,14 May 1997 10:29:48 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Tung Oil Has anyone used Behr Scandanavian Tung Oil? It was the only brandavailable atmy local Home Depot. By the way Home Depot did not carry Recorcinol. Anyothersuggestions on where to look? Thanks,Don D. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed May 14 10:41:24 1997 Subject: RE:Cheap Ferrules RO>Hello Everyone- RO>I am new to this newsgroup and to cane rodmaking - introduced to it byRO>a friend a year ago and just now getting things together... RO>I will be starting on the *first* rod soon and have been collectingRO>the various paraphernalia...as far as other rod parts, I've beenRO>trying to get cheap stuff to go along with the "sacrificial culm" (toRO>coin Mr. Cattanach's term)... RO>Anyone know of a place that might have cheap ferrules, possibly madeRO>with materials other than nickel silver? I know I'd scavenge a nickelRO>silver one at a later date... RO>Thanks in advance... RO>jshimizu@sprynet.com Try Jann's Netcraft -- (800) netcraft They have Ni-plated brass ferrules for about $2.00 a set. Don B. from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed May 14 10:47:35 1997 ESMTP id KAA08943 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 robin.itg.ti.com (8.7.3/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA01526 for dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id QNPVBLAB; Wed,14 May 1997 10:46:13 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Best of the Planing Form All: I ordered my "Best of the Planing Form" book today and was wonderingabout thecontents. Does it include instructions on building ovens and binders?These aremy two main needs right now and I hope it addresses them. Don D. from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Wed May 14 12:37:18 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 14 May 1997 13:38:23 EDT Subject: Re: Sherline lathes - Recomendation Please I think there is also a tool rest so you can use wood turning chisels and if you don't have a wood lathe this would be good, but I think rigging something up wouldn't be too difficult. Yes they do make the wood tool rest. It is quite nice, but I agree it would be pretty easy to rig something. However, for 50 or so it would probably be less work just to buy one. The attachment to allow the lathe to be converted into a milling machine may work ok, but I haven't bothered looking into it that much as it wont work as well as a purpose built milling machine Sherline also make. I am curious why you say this. I spoke with Sherline today and the headstock, motor, and what not is exactly the same for both the lathe and milling machine. The milling machines come with several different choices of table set ups, and this conversion lets you avoid paying for a second motor and head stock given you want to spend the 3 minutes or so to convert it. The lathe comes with a cutter as well as some tool steel so you canmake your own cutters, but buy a center drill and a boring tool also.Without the center drill you wont drill neat holes and may break you drill bits and if you make reel seats you'll need the boring tool. I would agree with these recommendations as well, however, I would also add the new cover for the on/off switch and a couple other little things. I've found when turning ferrule stations that if you tightly bind the very end of the blank you can use the tailstock spindle to hold the blank while turning. Don't use too much pressure on the tailstock or you'll split the blank, but enough will relieve stress on your part while performing this operation as it prevents the blank from running off centre when you apply the cutter.I've also found that a piece of wood with a small hole bored in it set at the correct height to allow the other end of the blank to enter and rest in will prevent the rod whipping about....too much.Take it slowwww and easy. TonyJon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed May 14 13:13:26 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 11:13:02 -0700 Subject: scraping plane 4.0.994.63 I received the new Garrett Wade catalogue last night and on the backcover was a new scraping plane made in England. It's 2 3/4's" long andlooks like about a 1" wide, it has solid brass sides and rosewood middleand the blade looks like about 3/4" wide. It looks like the wood body;aka wood infill, is the same width as the blade and a person couldrelieve the wood part of the sole about 1 or 2 thousands and the brasssides would be the only part riding on the planing form. It says thatthe angle of the scraper blade is adjustable. They also have a blockplane that is built the same way and has a 3/4" wide body. The scraperplane is $32.75 and the block plane is $27.50 and has a bed angle of 27degrees. Phone number for a catalogue is 1-800-221-2942. This looks likeit just maybe a great useful (recessing the sole) cheap alternative tothe Lie Nielsen scraping plane, take a look and decide for yourself. Itlooks like if you relieve the sole .001" it would never touch theplaning form and would ride on the brass sides and the blade would notprotrude below the sides and not touch the planing form either. Patrick from santiago@ricochet.net Wed May 14 13:28:27 1997 LAA12143 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 11:28:20 Subject: Re: scraping plane Coffey, Patrick W wrote: I received the new Garrett Wade catalogue last night and on the backcover was a new scraping plane made in England. It's 2 3/4's" long andlooks like about a 1" wide, it has solid brass sides and rosewood middleand the blade looks like about 3/4" wide. It looks like the wood body;aka wood infill, is the same width as the blade and a person couldrelieve the wood part of the sole about 1 or 2 thousands and the brasssides would be the only part riding on the planing form. It says thatthe angle of the scraper blade is adjustable. They also have a blockplane that is built the same way and has a 3/4" wide body. The scraperplane is $32.75 and the block plane is $27.50 and has a bed angle of 27degrees. Phone number for a catalogue is 1-800-221-2942. This lookslikeit just maybe a great useful (recessing the sole) cheap alternative tothe Lie Nielsen scraping plane, take a look and decide for yourself. Itlooks like if you relieve the sole .001" it would never touch theplaning form and would ride on the brass sides and the blade would notprotrude below the sides and not touch the planing form either. Patrick another idea... sandivic cabinet scraper...$7 this is the best yet, full control with the touch that works. leo from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed May 14 13:41:47 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA24172 for; Wed, 14 May 1997 14:41:39 -0400 Subject: Re: scraping plane another idea... sandivic cabinet scraper...$7 Better yet, they go on sale at Woodworkers warehouse often for 4.95. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed May 14 14:19:40 1997 Subject: Re: Glue for cork ring hand grips At 10:26 14/05/97 -0400, you wrote:At 07:10 AM 5/14/97 PDT, you wrote: I would be grateful for suggestions for the best glue to use for glueingup cork hand grips. Thank you ThomasP@nacm.com On a rod I'm trying to fish to death { 4000 hrs. & counting} one of thethings that became obvious is that epoxy doesn't give @ the same rate asthecork grip. The cork grip both where my thumb and first finger rest is nowindented from fishing. The epoxy glue line became a ridge that must befileddown about once/yr. to make it comfortable. Using a more "flexible" glueissuggested - Titebond II is fine. Don Andersen from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed May 14 14:36:16 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Glue for corks Many thanks to everyone for the wonderful input in response to myquestion. TitebondII seems to be the way to go - an added advantage being that my woodworking hobby uses this as a default glue! Thanks again, Thomas P.S. For now I'm going to go with Nyatex for the strips because of the heat tempering + long setting properties. from santiago@ricochet.net Wed May 14 14:53:12 1997 MAA00205 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 12:53:05 Subject: Re: scraping plane Thomas Ausfeld wrote: another idea... sandivic cabinet scraper...$7 Better yet, they go on sale at Woodworkers warehouse often for 4.95. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineeri i agree, this is better yet... from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 14 14:56:33 1997 Subject: Re: Tung Oil In a message dated 5/14/97 3:39:01 PM, you wrote: Don - Try a well stocked marine supply store -- Tom from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed May 14 15:20:41 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 13:17:59 -0700 Subject: RE: scraping plane 4.0.994.63 excuse me, you are saying that a cabinet scraper that you have to holdwith two hands is better than a scraping PLANE or am I missing somethinghere. I've used both a sandvic scraper and a Lie Nielsen scraping plane- the plane is definitely better. ----------From: Leo Santiago[SMTP:santiago@ricochet.net]Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 5:55 AM Subject: Re: scraping plane Thomas Ausfeld wrote: another idea... sandivic cabinet scraper...$7 Better yet, they go on sale at Woodworkers warehouse often for 4.95. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineeri i agree, this is better yet... from SalarFly@aol.com Wed May 14 15:22:17 1997 Subject: Re: scraping plane In a message dated 97-05-14 14:50:15 EDT, you write: another idea... sandivic cabinet scraper...$7 Better yet, they go on sale at Woodworkers warehouse often for 4.95. I think you really need both. A cabinet scraper and a bodiedscraper. I built rods for a year usiing just a cabinet scraper,then finally bought a Lie-Nielsen scraper. The control you get from the L-N scraper can't be beat. Wayne Cattanach sayshe can get a quarter of a thousandths (.00025) shavings. Ican get a half a thousandths (.0005). The L-N scraper isTHE tool to get to the thousandths tolerances everyone talksabout. Also, a bodied scraper allows you to flatten bumpssuch as the nodes. Since it has a body like a plane it onlyallows the blade to contact the tops of the bumps or waves,essentially flattening them out. A cabinet scraper, since ithas only one point of contact - the cutting edge - followsthe bumps and waves of your spline and doesn't cut aflat surface. Darryl Hayashida from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed May 14 15:41:41 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Scrapers I second Darryl H's comments on the L-N bodied scraper. As a new (re-)entrant to the spli cane world, using the L-N and Frank Armbruster's steel planing forms (thank you Frank!) the 1/1000th inch tolerance is, if not trivial, relatively easy to accomplish. The L-N can take whisks off easily, as can a freehand Sandvik. The difference is that retaining a plane surface (parallel to the form) on the strip with the L-N is easy. Not so with the Sandvik. ThomasP@nacm.com from santiago@ricochet.net Wed May 14 16:46:46 1997 OAA25088 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 14:46:27 Subject: Re: scraping plane Coffey, Patrick W wrote: excuse me, you are saying that a cabinet scraper that you have to holdwith two hands is better than a scraping PLANE or am I missingsomethinghere. I've used both a sandvic scraper and a Lie Nielsen scraping plane- the plane is definitely better. ----------From: Leo Santiago[SMTP:santiago@ricochet.net]Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 1997 5:55 AM Subject: Re: scraping plane Thomas Ausfeld wrote: another idea... sandivic cabinet scraper...$7 Better yet, they go on sale at Woodworkers warehouse often for 4.95. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineeri i agree, this is better yet... off. as one who is also new to the hobby, i find the "feel" is muchcloser by hand. i am not concerned about how sharp my blade is or if itis adjusted correctly. most importantly, i am suggesting "another idea," an idea that doesn'trequire a huge expense. this is only a suggestion... :) leo from bjcoch@arkansas.net Wed May 14 17:23:13 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id WAA14384 for; Wed, 14 May 1997 22:23:10 GMT Subject: Re: Tung Oil Don DeLoach wrote: Has anyone used Behr Scandanavian Tung Oil? It was the only brandavailable atmy local Home Depot. By the way Home Depot did not carry Recorcinol.Any othersuggestions on where to look? Thanks,Don D.get on line and go to constintine's web site... they will have thetools,glues,ect that you want. Bryant C. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed May 14 18:52:14 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11694) with SMTP id AAA320 0500 Subject: Unsubscribe please unsubscribe, I'll be gone for a while, and last time I came backthere were 768 messages! from rkovalak@mail.bright.net Wed May 14 20:07:18 1997 mail.bright.net (8.8.5/8.8.5/FNG) with SMTP id VAA03431 for Subject: Re: O ring source Thomas Pindelski wrote: I'm moving to completion on my ring binder - largely following the styleillustrated in Clemens's book in the Tools chapter. I used nylon rollers sold in the bathroom hardware section - with threeateach of three stations supporting the rod. Two on a horizontal plane, thethird above and moveable vertically with a locking device to hold it andtherod in place. Two of the three supports are anchored to the 24" longbase,with the third free-standing - like in the Flexcoat ads. A 'T' extension atthe center of the main base extends to hold tensioners, silk thread andthedirectional eyelet. No motor,,,yet! I would like to fit the rollers with rubber/vinyl O rings to provide asofter supporting surface than the hard nylon affords, but have haddifficult finding O rings to fit - the diameter is some 1 1/2". Requiredthickness is probably 3/32". The selection listed in the Enco catalog isnotappropriate and MSC's catalog sells in large quantities only. Any ideas for a good supply source, anyone? ThomasP@nacm.com BTW, construction cost (using some nice old birch from the garage'srecesses) was $15, including vertical 4 1/2" slider bolts for the toproller. These rollers are especially neat as they run on a (supplied) innernylon plain bearing which is wider than the roller's thickness, thusallowing the bearing to be clamped to the upright and letting the rollerspin freely. Tom, Small Parts, Inc. (1.800.220.4242) out of Miami Lakes, FL has the o-rings you need. Their prices are high due to their large stocking and small sales volume. They have o-rings in Viton (fluorocarbon), Silicone rubber or Buna-N (nitrile). The prices are: Part No. Mat'L Size PriceE-ORV-218 Viton 1 1/4 ID x 1 1/2 OD 2.94 ea.E-ORS-218 Silicone 1 1/4 ID x 1 1/2 OD 1.57 ea.E-ORB-218 Buna-N 1 1/4 ID x 1 1/2 OD 3.56 ea. They are all 1/8 in. width. The pricing may not be bad if you only need a few. They have a $15.00minimum. from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed May 14 20:20:16 1997 VAA07883 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 21:20:10 Subject: Rod design To John Bokstrom and the List, 5/14/97John, I've been meaning to get back to you regarding your message of4/30,but the quest for the elusive Hendricksons -- well, you know.I believe that Mr.G. showed us the way to systematic rod design viastresscurves and mathematical analysis. What I was getting at in TPF 46 was tosuggest that perhaps the stress levels of some tapers which exceedconventional limits could be explained away by taking into account thefactthat rods do indeed bend. Mr.G. may well have been wise enough to take usonly as far as stress curves, realizing that the second order differentialequations needed to solve the equations for beams in deflection are notappropriate for us ordinary mortals. Again he was right. Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed May 14 20:20:17 1997 VAA07888 for ; Wed, 14 May 1997 21:20:12 Subject: Rod design - correction To John and the List, 5/14/97Previous message. Make that TPF 43. TPF 46 is still a vision in Ron'smind. Sorry about that. Bill from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed May 14 23:40:07 1997 Subject: Re: The Angler's Bamboo Luis have always had a special interest (love) in bamboo fly rods andthose that make them - and I know that his book is special because it can from the heart. In talking with him about it you realize that he has morepersonal delight in it than he does in the many adventures that he sharedinhis lenghty career with the NGS. from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Thu May 15 03:02:40 1997 env- from (angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) KAA11669; Thu, 15 May 1997 10:02:34 +0200 10:02:33 +0200 "scraping plane" (May 14, 11:13am) Subject: Re: scraping plane Hello Patrick. I'm Angel Contreras from Switzerland.I'm interested in the scraping plane that you mentioned. Can you pleasegive tome some more information about this material. I would like to see if I candirectly get it from the manufacturer in England. Thanks Angel On May 14, 11:13am, Coffey, Patrick W wrote:Subject: scraping planeI received the new Garrett Wade catalogue last night and on the backcover was a new scraping plane made in England. It's 2 3/4's" long andlooks like about a 1" wide, it has solid brass sides and rosewood middleand the blade looks like about 3/4" wide. It looks like the wood body;aka wood infill, is the same width as the blade and a person couldrelieve the wood part of the sole about 1 or 2 thousands and the brasssides would be the only part riding on the planing form. It says thatthe angle of the scraper blade is adjustable. They also have a blockplane that is built the same way and has a 3/4" wide body. The scraperplane is $32.75 and the block plane is $27.50 and has a bed angle of 27degrees. Phone number for a catalogue is 1-800-221-2942. This lookslikeit just maybe a great useful (recessing the sole) cheap alternative tothe Lie Nielsen scraping plane, take a look and decide for yourself. Itlooks like if you relieve the sole .001" it would never touch theplaning form and would ride on the brass sides and the blade would notprotrude below the sides and not touch the planing form either. Patrick -- End of excerpt from Coffey, Patrick W -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu May 15 06:00:56 1997 Thu, 15 May 1997 19:00:06 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Sherline lathes - Recomendation Please The attachment to allow the lathe to be converted into a millingmachine may work ok, but I haven't bothered looking into it that much as it wont work as well as a purpose built milling machine Sherline also make. I am curious why you say this. I spoke with Sherline today and the headstock, motor, and what not is exactly the same for both the lathe and milling machine. The milling machines come with several different choices of table set ups, and this conversion lets you avoid paying for a second motor and head stock given you want to spend the 3 minutes or so to convert it.When I purchased the lathe I intended getting the conversion kit at the time. The problem was that (according to the owner of the store I bought the lathe from) Sherline didn't recomend using the milling table with a converted lathe as the lathe bed is too narrow. Also, and I didn't look too much further once I found out about the milling table it seems the converted lathe dosn't have the same degree of movement verticaly.Milling setup operations can be tricky enough with a milling table. The vertical adjustment bit may not be correct, as I said I sort of lost interest in the conversion but I thought it was prob better to just get the mill. Maybe it's better to by a mill without the motor and swap the motor? If I'm wrong about the milling table, I'd like to find out as the $500 the conversion costs here is a lot less than $1400 for a mill. As in all things, this is just my opinion. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 15 08:01:21 1997 Subject: Re: scraping plane I use both the L/N and the Sandvik. No argument from me that the L/N isthesuperior tool for leveling and for the ultimate in tolerances, but I stillprefer the Sandvik for removal of the enamel, and for final cleaning of theblank after the glue is removed. I guess it all has to do with the sequencein which you do these things. I like to remove the enamel at the beginningoffinal planing, and level if necessary when the strip is nearing finaldimension. It seems to me that because of the different densities ofenameland cane, the hooked edge on the Sandvik gets the enamel off with lessdisturbance to the cane. The fact that it follows irregularities is a plus atthis stage, in my opinion. -- Tom from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Thu May 15 08:19:15 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA27519 for; Thu, 15 May 1997 09:19:12 -0400 Subject: Scraper confessions To all, I have never used a L/N scraper, I have used the hand scrapers. I will not argue that a block scraper is more accurate and precise. To me its bang for the buck, I'm happy with the tolerances I can achieve now, with the hand scraper. As I progress, maybe my tolerances will get tighter and I'll need a L/N, but I'm not yet convinced I must achieve .001" accuracy for my purposes. Just my opinion,Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu May 15 08:20:32 1997 Subject: Re: The Angler's Bamboo Wayne, I read Luis' book last week and agree with those who have writteninto praise it. One of the reviewers called it a love letter to bamboo. Thatcertainly came across to me. I also found his inclusion of Dr. McClure'soriginal scientific descriptions to be very interesting. -- Tom from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu May 15 09:55:16 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: O rings Sincerest thanks to the list member who recommended Small Parts Inc inFL Unfortunately I do not know your name (my Email says everything is from 'owner-rodmakers') but I am most grateful for the lead. ThomasP@nacm.com from santiago@ricochet.net Thu May 15 10:13:42 1997 IAA13846 for ; Thu, 15 May 1997 08:13:29 Subject: Re: The Angler's Bamboo WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Luis have always had a special interest (love) in bamboo fly rods andthose that make them - and I know that his book is special because itcan from the heart. In talking with him about it you realize that he has morepersonal delight in it than he does in the many adventures that he sharedinhis lenghty career with the NGS. this is a beautiful book...wonderfully written, and excellent photos. thank you for the book, now my cane isn't so mysterious. leo from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Thu May 15 10:15:13 1997 08:14:15 -0700 Subject: Truncated vs. regular ferru Subject: Time: 10:57 AMOFFICE MEMO Truncated vs. regular ferrules Date: 5/15/97 To All: I am thinking of using the CSE truncated ferrules on a 3 piece 7'6" rod forDT4 line. Is this a good idea or would the regular ones be OK? Thanks abunch. --Rich from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu May 15 10:22:33 1997 IAA28113 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 15 May 1997 08:21:57 - 0700 Subject: Extending a taper... Gang, I am interested in making a 9 foot rod that behaves like Wayne's 4wtdouble taper 7' 6" rod. Anyone out there have any words of wisdom as tohowHexrod is used to accomplish this? I want to preserve the action, butmakeit 8' 6" long instead of 7'. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated. I really like the feel of the7' 6" rod! Thanks,Roger from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu May 15 13:14:30 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 11:14:14 -0700 Subject: scrapers 4.0.994.63 Here's a idea for those of you that like to use hand held scrapers.What we did at the shop I worked at was make our own from old brokenband saw blades. We went to big wood shops and they were glad to get ridof their old blades to somebody who didn't want to charge them for them.They are already hardened and tempered so all we had to do was scorethem with a grinder and/or file, snap them off to length, stone them tothe correct angle like you do with a cabinet scraper and put a burr onthem with a burnished. We made ours out of 1 1/2' bandsaw blades snaped(cut ) off about 3"s long so we could hold them with one hand and havemore control of them. We ground them to various shapes so they would fitinside and outside curves. Patrick from devino@inlink.com Thu May 15 15:10:03 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id PAA13644 for Subject: Reel seat scrounging I'd like to get my hands on a reel seat often found on old production rods.It's the nickel plated brass downlocking sliding band type. You know whatI'm talking about. I have one on this old rod I am messing with but I'dlike to get one that's in better shape - ie no brass showing through. WhileI'm at it I could use one of the big old clunky NPB winding checks. Thisone is rough. Maybe what I need is a complete butt of an old rod. If some has these partsI can pay a little cash or swap for flies or something. Thanks. -=Mark Devino=- 314-949-6699 from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 15 15:21:08 1997 Subject: Re: Extending a taper... In a message dated 97-05-15 13:23:59 EDT, you write: Gang, I am interested in making a 9 foot rod that behaves like Wayne's 4wtdouble taper 7' 6" rod. Anyone out there have any words of wisdom as tohowHexrod is used to accomplish this? I want to preserve the action, butmakeit 8' 6" long instead of 7'. This is how I do it. Using the original stress curve, I break eachsignificant point into percentage of length. For example, say the 200,000 point is at 10 inches from the tip. That is 10 / 90 (90 inches in a 7'6" rod) On your 9 ft. stress curve you should putthat point at 0.111 of 108 or at 12 inches from the tip. Go ondown the curve in a likewise manner, and you will have a rodwith a similar action. Be aware though, the "feel" will not beexactly the same. You cannot expect the lightness of a7'6" rod to be duplicated in a 9' rod. Darryl Hayashida Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu May 15 15:43:40 1997 Subject: Re: [1] Truncated vs. regular ferru At 11:06 15/05/97 -0800, Rich wrote: To All: I am thinking of using the CSE truncated ferrules on a 3 piece 7'6" rod forDT4 line. Is this a good idea or would the regular ones be OK? Thanks abunch. --Rich Rich, They both have their uses - truncated in lower stress areas like in the topsection of your 3 peice and regular lengths in the higher stress areas ofthe butt section ferrule.What you must remember it that all things fail - shorter [truncated] maleslids will fail faster than regular length male slids.The only true failure of ferrules that I've encountered was on truncatedferrules on the 8' 5 wt. 2 piece rod after 2 years of use by a friend wherethe male just plain wore out fast - replaced with regular length and itsstill going strong 8 years later. Mind you the ferrules were from differentmanufacturers. Perhaps with CSE, the truncated ferrule would havesurvived. Don Andersen from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Thu May 15 16:32:11 1997 with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 15 May 1997 17:33:19 EDT Subject: Re: Reel seat scrounging Why not try the N/S seat made by Struble. I have seat like you are talking about made by Wes Jordan. Still on the rod though. I think his wife out in vermont still makes them. On 15 May 97 at 15:08, Mark Devino wrote: I'd like to get my hands on a reel seat often found on old production rods.It's the nickel plated brass downlocking sliding band type. You know whatI'm talking about. I have one on this old rod I am messing with but I'dlike to get one that's in better shape - ie no brass showing through.WhileI'm at it I could use one of the big old clunky NPB winding checks. Thisone is rough. Maybe what I need is a complete butt of an old rod. If some has thesepartsI can pay a little cash or swap for flies or something. Thanks. -=Mark Devino=- 314-949-6699 Jon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from santiago@ricochet.net Thu May 15 17:25:40 1997 Subject: Re: scrapers Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Here's a idea for those of you that like to use hand held scrapers.What we did at the shop I worked at was make our own from old brokenband saw blades. We went to big wood shops and they were glad to getridof their old blades to somebody who didn't want to charge them for them.They are already hardened and tempered so all we had to do was scorethem with a grinder and/or file, snap them off to length, stone them tothe correct angle like you do with a cabinet scraper and put a burr onthem with a burnished. We made ours out of 1 1/2' bandsaw bladessnaped(cut ) off about 3"s long so we could hold them with one hand and havemore control of them. We ground them to various shapes so they wouldfitinside and outside curves. Patrick great idea patrick, i will give it a try. also, we should get togetherand chat rodmaking. i too live in the seattle area. leo from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Thu May 15 19:05:02 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRODMAKERS@WUGATE.WUSTL.EDU; Thu, 15 May 1997 17:55:42 MDT #19314) RODMAKERS@WUGATE.WUSTL.EDU; Thu, Subject: Reel seat Scrounging MarkI have two reelseats that match your description they came off of low endSouth Bends (I pretty sure). If you're interested let me know.jerry from finney.1@osu.edu Thu May 15 20:09:20 1997 Subject: Re: Reel seat Scrounging Hi Jerry: I'm not the original poster to this request,but I am also looking for reelseats for a Shakespeare 1300 anD a SB 291 I am trying to restore. I wouldbeinterested in the reel seats tthat you have. I'm looking for either a Southbend Lite lock, the type that is up lock with a plastic filler (barrel) withthe hood that is moved into position by screwing the knob at the end of theseat. Also an older typical down locking real seat. If you would send adescription (color of the barrel, hoods/screw lock if different) of the reelseats that you have it would be most appreciated. Please include what youwant for them. Thanks, Bill finney.1@osu.edu At 05:55 PM 5/15/97 -0600, you wrote:MarkI have two reelseats that match your description they came off of lowendSouth Bends (I pretty sure). If you're interested let me know.jerry from rkovalak@mail.bright.net Thu May 15 20:25:30 1997 mail.bright.net (8.8.5/8.8.5/FNG) with SMTP id VAA04200 for Subject: Re: O rings Thomas Pindelski wrote: Sincerest thanks to the list member who recommended Small Parts Incin FL Unfortunately I do not know your name (my Email says everything is from'owner-rodmakers') but I am most grateful for the lead. ThomasP@nacm.com When you call Small Parts ask for Catalog 17. They have many sizes ofo- rings and other interesting 'small parts' that are handy. Ron Kovalakrkovalak@bright.net from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri May 16 07:46:28 1997 Subject: RE:Tung Oil RO>Has anyone used Behr Scandanavian Tung Oil? It was the only brandavailableRO>my local Home Depot. By the way Home Depot did not carry Recorcinol.Any otRO>suggestions on where to look? RO>Thanks,RO>Don D. Don Try Orchard Supply (OSH) if that chain is in your area. Don B. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 16 09:10:46 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 07:10:34 -0700 Subject: RE: scrapers 4.0.994.63 Leo, Martin Jensen also lives in Seattle, we should pick a good bar andhave a Seattle rodmakers meeting. Patrick ----------From: Leo Santiago[SMTP:santiago@ricochet.net]Sent: Thursday, May 15, 1997 8:27 AM Subject: Re: scrapers Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Here's a idea for those of you that like to use hand held scrapers.What we did at the shop I worked at was make our own from old brokenband saw blades. We went to big wood shops and they were glad to getridof their old blades to somebody who didn't want to charge them forthem.They are already hardened and tempered so all we had to do was scorethem with a grinder and/or file, snap them off to length, stone them tothe correct angle like you do with a cabinet scraper and put a burr onthem with a burnished. We made ours out of 1 1/2' bandsaw bladessnaped(cut ) off about 3"s long so we could hold them with one hand and havemore control of them. We ground them to various shapes so they wouldfitinside and outside curves. Patrick great idea patrick, i will give it a try. also, we should get togetherand chat rodmaking. i too live in the seattle area. leo from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 16 10:16:24 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 08:16:15 -0700 Subject: Waynes oven 4.0.994.63 Gentlemen Does anybody have instructions on how wire and construct Wayne'sbamboooven. I have all the duct and ductboard but I'm not sure on how to wireand install the heating element and thermostat. My knowledge ofelectricity is when the red light isn't on it's broke and you take it to"BOB" and say "BOB" it's broke fix it. Patrick from santiago@ricochet.net Fri May 16 10:29:27 1997 IAA24327 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 08:29:07 - Subject: Re: scrapers Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Leo, Martin Jensen also lives in Seattle, we should pick a good bar andhave a Seattle rodmakers meeting.Patrick ----------From: Leo Santiago[SMTP:santiago@ricochet.net]Sent: Thursday, May 15, 1997 8:27 AM Subject: Re: scrapers Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Here's a idea for those of you that like to use hand held scrapers.What we did at the shop I worked at was make our own from oldbrokenband saw blades. We went to big wood shops and they were glad to getridof their old blades to somebody who didn't want to charge them forthem.They are already hardened and tempered so all we had to do was scorethem with a grinder and/or file, snap them off to length, stone themtothe correct angle like you do with a cabinet scraper and put a burr onthem with a burnished. We made ours out of 1 1/2' bandsaw bladessnaped(cut ) off about 3"s long so we could hold them with one hand and havemore control of them. We ground them to various shapes so they wouldfitinside and outside curves. Patrick great idea patrick, i will give it a try. also, we should get togetherand chat rodmaking. i too live in the seattle area. leo a big YES to the first NWRODMAKERS GUILD at a good local bar. one wherecigars are allowed. leo email me directly... santiago@ricochet.net from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 16 11:17:29 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 09:15:51 -0700 Subject: RE: scrapers 4.0.994.63 a place where GOOD cigars are allowed ----------From: Leo Santiago[SMTP:santiago@ricochet.net]Sent: Friday, May 16, 1997 1:31 AM Subject: Re: scrapers Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Leo, Martin Jensen also lives in Seattle, we should pick a good bar andhave a Seattle rodmakers meeting.Patrick ----------From: Leo Santiago[SMTP:santiago@ricochet.net]Sent: Thursday, May 15, 1997 8:27 AM Subject: Re: scrapers Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Here's a idea for those of you that like to use hand heldscrapers.What we did at the shop I worked at was make our own from oldbrokenband saw blades. We went to big wood shops and they were glad toget ridof their old blades to somebody who didn't want to charge them forthem.They are already hardened and tempered so all we had to do wasscorethem with a grinder and/or file, snap them off to length, stone themtothe correct angle like you do with a cabinet scraper and put a burr onthem with a burnished. We made ours out of 1 1/2' bandsaw bladessnaped(cut ) off about 3"s long so we could hold them with one hand andhavemore control of them. We ground them to various shapes so theywould fitinside and outside curves. Patrick great idea patrick, i will give it a try. also, we should get togetherand chat rodmaking. i too live in the seattle area. leo a big YES to the first NWRODMAKERS GUILD at a good local bar. one wherecigars are allowed. leo email me directly... santiago@ricochet.net from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Fri May 16 11:51:00 1997 Subject: Re: Reel seat scrounging Mark You didn't specify what size winding check you needed. I have asmall supply, and if you will get to me by email (rmoon@ida.net) and letme know shat you want maybe I can help. Ralph Moon from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Fri May 16 12:06:57 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 6158; Fri, 16 May 97 13:05:30 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 9226; Fri, 16 May1997 13:05:29 -0400 What are the costs for parts in building a WC typeoven. Anyone have any recent experience? I'm tryingto weight this type against a heat gun type model.Thanks, Bob. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 16 13:10:56 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 11:10:45 -0700 Subject: RE: 4.0.994.63 I just purchased the ducts and duct board this week here in Seattle andthe costs were 6' of 6" x !0") $16.20, 2 end caps were $6.75 and aboutthe same price for the 4' x 8' duct and caps. the duct board wasexpensive because I had to buy a 6' x 10' sheet (full sheet) for $54.24.It's cheaper to buy one of Wayne's kits if you can get one. Patrick ----------From: RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU[SMTP:RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU]Sent: Friday, May 16, 1997 10:03 AM What are the costs for parts in building a WC typeoven. Anyone have any recent experience? I'm tryingto weight this type against a heat gun type model.Thanks, Bob. from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Fri May 16 13:40:42 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 6531; Fri, 16 May 97 14:27:54 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 4242; Fri, 16 May1997 14:27:54 -0400Subject: RE: Thanks Patrick. I've sent several notes to Wayneover the last few months re his ovens, but noreply. Did you try ordering one of those micestrip heaters yet? Expensive? Bob. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 16 13:46:36 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 11:46:21 -0700 Subject: RE: 4.0.994.63 haven't ordered the heater or the thermostat yet but you know one thingI learned working in a shop is that you can't scrimp on tools. I totried to get one from Wayne.Patrick ----------From: RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU[SMTP:RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU]Sent: Friday, May 16, 1997 11:25 AM Subject: RE: Thanks Patrick. I've sent several notes to Wayneover the last few months re his ovens, but noreply. Did you try ordering one of those micestrip heaters yet? Expensive? Bob. from cparham@crocker.com Fri May 16 14:47:10 1997 rmc1.crocker.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with SMTP id PAA13426 for; Fri, 16 May 1997 15:47:01 GMT Subject: Garrison's book Does anyone know where I can order a copy of Garrison's book? Bob Marriott's is out of it and has no date of re-stock. Thanks, Charlie from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri May 16 15:03:33 1997 Subject: Re: Garrison's book In a message dated 5/16/97 7:54:48 PM, you wrote: Charles - Wilderness Adventures claims to have a limited number ofcopies.Their price is $75.00 ( 1-800-925-3339 ) ( www.wildadv.com ) from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Fri May 16 15:07:58 1997 ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Garrison's book Charles Parham wrote: Does anyone know where I can order a copy of Garrison's book? BobMarriott's is out of it and has no date of re-stock. Check out Cabellas. Mike -- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704- 743-5625 from cparham@crocker.com Fri May 16 16:17:47 1997 rmc1.crocker.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with SMTP id RAA20736 for; Fri, 16 May 1997 17:17:49 GMT Subject: Re: Garrison's book TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 5/16/97 7:54:48 PM, you wrote: Charles - Wilderness Adventures claims to have a limited number ofcopies.Their price is $75.00 ( 1-800-925-3339 ) ( www.wildadv.com ) Yes they do have several books. I just ordered one. Thanks for the prompt reply. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 16 17:19:44 1997 Subject: Re: Ovens Phil,Patrick,et. al.,I concur on Wayne's oven-I find the thermostat setting calibratesalmostexactly with my thermometer set midway of the oven. I am quite pleasedwiththe results.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 16 17:19:51 1997 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? Chris,A master is anyone who is better than me-that means there are onehelluva lot of masters out there :-)Hank. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri May 16 18:03:18 1997 TAA21460 for ; Fri, 16 May 1997 19:06:21-0400 Subject: Re: What defines a Master???? HankIt is all in the eye of the beholder - and you are the beholder. Chris,A master is anyone who is better than me-that means there are onehelluva lot of masters out there :-)Hank. Regards Chris from mrj@seanet.com Fri May 16 18:46:53 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA11086 for Subject: Re: scrapers Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Leo, Martin Jensen also lives in Seattle, we should pick a good bar andhave a Seattle rodmakers meeting.Patrick ----------From: Leo Santiago[SMTP:santiago@ricochet.net]Sent: Thursday, May 15, 1997 8:27 AM Subject: Re: scrapers Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Here's a idea for those of you that like to use hand held scrapers.What we did at the shop I worked at was make our own from oldbrokenband saw blades. We went to big wood shops and they were glad to getridof their old blades to somebody who didn't want to charge them forthem.They are already hardened and tempered so all we had to do was scorethem with a grinder and/or file, snap them off to length, stone themtothe correct angle like you do with a cabinet scraper and put a burr onthem with a burnished. We made ours out of 1 1/2' bandsaw bladessnaped(cut ) off about 3"s long so we could hold them with one hand and havemore control of them. We ground them to various shapes so they wouldfitinside and outside curves. Patrick great idea patrick, i will give it a try. also, we should get togetherand chat rodmaking. i too live in the seattle area. leo sounds fine to me. I just finished #6 rod. I would have to play show andtell-- Martin Jensen from jfoster@gte.net Fri May 16 21:43:38 1997 Subject: Re: I know sometimes it's necessary but unless you can't get by without itcould we turn off our "echo" when responding to messages... what happensis two things.. firstly it's costing me megabytes (ie $$$) to archivethe stuff, and it is a lot off unnecessary clutter when you or someonenew tries to review the archive files.. secondly, thridly.. the strip heaters are in the $75 range and newtherostats are in the $45-50 range. You guys looking for Mr. G's book should chek out the Archive.. Thanks Jerry from KDLoup@aol.com Fri May 16 21:50:15 1997 Subject: Re: oven I recently purchased a 50" 110v 1500 watt oven element with thermostatforabout $110. If you would like more information, email me. KurtKDLoup@aol.com from mrj@seanet.com Fri May 16 22:00:20 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16981 for Subject: Re: Jerry Foster wrote:could we turn off our "echo" when responding to messages... If you mean echo in the sense of a copy of the message that we areresponding to, I like to see that so if I have not been following thethread, I can still understand the message. I will agree to edit myquoted message more often though so as to eliminate a lot of the stuff Iam not replying to though. Martin Jensen from jfoster@gte.net Fri May 16 22:08:20 1997 Subject: Re: Thanks Martin I wasn't homeing in on anyone in particular..it's just i've noticed thatin some cases over the last year the messages have been eating up kbytes Thanks again Jerry from russett@bcn.net Fri May 16 22:13:18 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA13487 for Subject: suggestion May I suggest that people e-mail directly when they are responding to anoffer to purchase. We all shouldn't have to read all of those postseither. Would save you space also Larry from jfoster@gte.net Fri May 16 22:37:21 1997 Subject: books Chris.. all I finally got the Powell's bookstore link on the page Thanx Jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri May 16 23:59:04 1997 Sat, 17 May 1997 12:58:42 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Garrison's book On Fri, 16 May 1997, Charles Parham wrote: Does anyone know where I can order a copy of Garrison's book? Bob Marriott's is out of it and has no date of re-stock. Thanks, Charlie Try Abenaki Publishers.126 North Street , PO Box 4100 Bennington, VT 05201PH 802-447-1518, FAX 802-447-2471 My wife (bless her) bought me a copy from Abernaki recently. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from measter@sdcoe.k12.ca.us Sat May 17 10:42:21 1997 intergate.sdcoe.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id JAA13865; Sat, 17 Subject: 7'3" Driggs Looking for 7'3" Driggs taper. Any help appreciated. Thanks in advance. Mark from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat May 17 15:44:44 1997 Subject: Re: 7'3" Driggs In a message dated 5/17/97 3:58:36 PM, you wrote: Mark - The following was measured from a varnished rod. You shoulddeductabout 6 thousanths for the varnish. A Driggs taper was published in TPF afewyears ago that varies from this one, a not uncommon situation with Youngrods. I don't know which is the final version. I did build a successful rod from this taper, however. 0 -.0795 -.10010-.10915-.12520-.13525-.15030-.16835-.19240-.20345- .20550-.21555-.22160-.22965-.25070-.26075-.270 from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat May 17 18:14:17 1997 Subject: Re: 7'3" Driggs A 7' 3" Driggs River?????????? The original I cast was a 7' 2" from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat May 17 21:05:56 1997 Subject: Re: 7'3" Driggs As I said earlier the Driggs or Driggs River Special was a 7' 2" rod -named for a UP stream - I have cast the original when it was in the shop.AllYoungs were made on 6" center spacings starting at the butt so theoriginallisting is as follows: 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" Gee - after posting several Young originals and even knowing whichguidebars were used - I would think that one of you might have figured out thatIhave actually made some Youngs - or at least Todd put the Young name onthem. Wayne from GRANDBEER@aol.com Sun May 18 10:03:13 1997 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Please unsubscribe, I will be gone for awhile. Thanks from WDHCJL@aol.com Sun May 18 16:15:58 1997 Subject: New Online Well I finally did it, I bought a computer and I look forward to talking rodsetc. with all of you. Since I already know some of you but not your e- mailsaddresses I thought I should start by letting anyone interested know mye-mail address so you may send me yours, mine is WDHCJL@aol.com Giveme acal Wayne! from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 19 09:12:12 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Cork Grips I'm moving closer to making my first cork grip, having glued the first six strips together this weekend. The rod is the 7' 2pc Cattanach 4 Wt of which Darryl Hayashida speaks so highly. My question is: What is the 'correct' grip shape and length from both usage and aesthetic points of view, and what is suggested as the best shaping method? (I do own a wood lathe). My proposed reel seat is a simple 2 sliding ring type. Many thanks, ThomasP@nacm.com from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon May 19 09:34:58 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Binding strips - precautions Just a word to say how it pays to follow Wayne's advice; before glueingmy first six strips this weekend, I bound them dry using the Milward binder to check for fit, as Wayne recommends. Sure enough, there were a few irregularities which needed correction. Also, using Nyatex (another Wayne C idea from his book) it was great to enjoy the very long open time this epoxy has as....my Milward binder blew a bearing half way through and needed some emergency surgery! For the butt section of the 7' 2 pc. I found that 1 1/2 teaspoons each of glue + hardener was just right. Actually, I used three of each and ended up throwing half away. Nyatex is very liquid (ambient temperature was 75-80F) and a joyto spread. Also, after brushing on, a few slivers of bamboo showed up - like Wayne says, remove these before binding, or else... I let the bound butt dry overnight (probably no lower than 55F), but the glue was still a little tacky 24 hours later. However, after 15 minutes at 365F (185C) in my 'J' shaped heat gun oven it was dry and the rod butt beautifully tempered to a honey tone. After sandpapering the binding off I found (much to my amazement) thatmy maximum error against Wayne's measurements was 0.003" across theflats, with flat-to-flat 'out of round' ('out-of-hex'?) also at 0.003" or better. The Lie-Nielsen 212 imitation scraper has, I feel, contributed greatly to accurate dimenisioning and flatness. Thanks, Wayne! ThomasP@nacm.com from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon May 19 09:35:47 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA10421 for; Mon, 19 May 1997 10:35:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Cork Grips Tom, My question is: What is the 'correct' grip shape and length from bothusage and aesthetic points of viewIt is my opinion that don't worry about aesthetics, go with what is comfortable, after all this is YOUR flyrod, CUSTOM built for you. As Open screen type sandpaper works ok for me. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from SalarFly@aol.com Mon May 19 10:04:31 1997 Subject: Re: Cork Grips In a message dated 97-05-19 10:16:30 EDT, you write: My question is: What is the 'correct' grip shape and length from bothusage and aesthetic points of view, To my eye the reverse half wells or the Orvis superfine taper corkgrip looks best, but to my hand the full wells feels best. I have beenputting the full wells on my rods lately. Darryl Hayashida from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Mon May 19 11:27:10 1997 Subject: Re: Cork Grips You will always have a trade off between function and aesthetics. Ithink that there is little question that the best design for a cork gripis the full wells. There are a lot of reasons that I could cite, butI'll pass this time. The disadvantage to always using the full wells isthat it is bulky looking, even awkwward looking with a slide band reelseat. There an Orvis or cigar shape looks much better. The choice isstrictly up to the user of the rod. You might consider too that thehand grip on the handle micht influence your choice. Gary La Fontain shape that tapers down to the rod shaft is much easier to use with sucha grip thanone which, like the wells, tapers up. Like Tom Ausfeld said go with what is most comfortable for yourself Ralph Moon from InfoMan@InfoGuys.com Mon May 19 14:57:15 1997 Subject: [Fwd: bamboo repairman needed] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------24153FA5D43 I hope forwarding is appropriate here. If not please let me know. Thanks!Billy --------------24153FA5D43 mail0.erols.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/970113.001cmo) with ESMTP id MAA08200 mail0.erols.com (8.8.5/8.7.3/970113.001cmo) with ESMTP id MAA07988 (8.8.4/970128.004ccg) with ESMTP id NAA06583 for v1.0a) with SMTP id 5000E910 ; Mon, 19 May 1997 12:51:04 -0400 1.8b) withspool id 93815321 for FLYFISH@LSV.UKY.EDU; Mon, 19 May 199712:50:55-0400 withSMTP id 4A83B520 ; Mon, 19 May 1997 12:50:55 -0400 (8.8.4/(UKY.POP.1.4)) with SMTP id MAA02733 for Subject: bamboo repairman needed Folks, a friend was left a bamboo rod and it needs repair. Could you pointme to some aritsans who do that kind of thing? Thanks, Danny Danny WallsSystems Analyst Owner Flyfish ListDept. of AgronomyUniversity of Kentucky agrdanny@pop.uky.edu606-257-5524 (work) flyfish web page url is606-887-4803 (home) http://www.uky.edu/~agrdanny/flyfish/main.htm --------------24153FA5D43-- from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon May 19 16:20:44 1997 Subject: Resorcinal Glue - Home Depot I just made a run to the local Home Depot, I can confirm that they nolonger carry Resorcinal glue. Too bad. Don Burnsflyfisher@bbs.cmix.com from WDHCJL@aol.com Mon May 19 17:35:50 1997 Subject: Rod Finishes I am attemting to utilize a hand rubbed tung oil finish on my rods. I knowmost everyone likes to use dip tubes etc., but I like the classical simplelook I can get without applying heavier finishes. Now the problem! I havenot been able to place maker information on the butt section that willremainon the rod (It rubs off after application). Although I have not tried it, Iwas thinking of using a lacqer normally used in taxidermy (it is very thin)and airbrushing it on. Hopefully, this could be limited to the area over thewritten information and some how match the "tung oil" look that is on therest of the rod. Any other ideas?Thanks,Doug HallDecatur, Ga from hood@hpesdah.fc.hp.com Mon May 19 17:50:10 1997 palrel1.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id PAA09321 for (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA10993; Mon, 19 May 1997 16:50:05 -0600 Subject: 4/5/6 Sided Rods Prompted by Jorge's experiment with equal cross section rods offour, five and six sides I ran the Garrison equations on Wayne's7' #4 taper that seems to be so popular lately to see how thestresses varied. The tables below list the results.The first column is the distance in inches from the tip; thesecond column is the diameter of the original rod as published inWayne's book; the third column is the derived stresses using myguesses for tip impact (basically cast length) and ferrule weight*.Wayne, please correct me if these numbers are in error.The next two columns show the diameter** derived if the stressesremain constant and the % delta diameter from the constant crosssectional area rod when the taper is derived for the differentgeometry.The last three columns show the diameter, derived stress and%delta stress if the cross sectional areas remain constant forthe different geometry. * To simplify the comparisons and keep things somewhat consistantI used the same ferrule weight for all rods: 0.21 ounce. ** In the case of the pentagonal rod it is twice the distance fromthe center of the rod to the flat of a triangular section; theequivalent diameter is not directly measurable in rods with anodd number of sides. Note: weights given are the weight of the cane only. --Hexagonal-- Constant Stress ----Constant Area---- D Stress D delta D Stress deltaPentagonal:Weight: 2.04 1.98 -2.94% 2.04 0 0.068 0.066 0.00% 0.0665 0.070 191785 0.068 - 1.10% 0.068 185567 -3.24%10 0.082 243917 0.079 -1.11% 0.080 236010 -3.24%15 0.102 195415 0.098 -1.12% 0.100 189079 -3.24%20 0.123 153965 0.119 -1.14% 0.120 148974 -3.24%25 0.137 145593 0.132 -1.17% 0.134 140873 -3.24%30 0.152 134755 0.147 -1.19% 0.148 130386 -3.24%35 0.166 127999 0.160 -1.22% 0.162 123849 -3.24%40 0.184 114590 0.177 -1.26% 0.180 110875 -3.24%45 0.206 100963 0.199 - 1.29% 0.201 097690 -3.24%50 0.214 111091 0.206 -1.31% 0.209 107489 -3.24%55 0.220 124024 0.212 -1.34% 0.215 120003 -3.24%60 0.244 108805 0.235 -1.37% 0.238 105278 -3.24%65 0.258 109085 0.248 -1.40% 0.252 105549 -3.24%70 0.272 109478 0.262 -1.43% 0.266 105929 -3.24%75 0.300 0.288 -1.69% 0.29380 0.300 0.288 -1.69% 0.29385 0.300 0.288 -1.69% 0.293 --Hexagonal-- Constant Stress ----Constant Area---- D Stress D delta D Stress deltaSquare:Weight: 2.04 1.86 -8.82% 2.04 0 0.068 0.061 -3.60% 0.0635 0.070 191785 0.063 - 3.65% 0.065 171738 -10.45%10 0.082 243917 0.073 -3.69% 0.076 218422 -10.45%15 0.102 195415 0.091 -3.74% 0.095 174989 -10.45%20 0.123 153965 0.110 -3.81% 0.114 137872 -10.45%25 0.137 145593 0.123 -3.88% 0.127 130374 - 10.45%30 0.152 134755 0.136 -3.97% 0.141 120669 - 10.45%35 0.166 127999 0.148 -4.06% 0.154 114620 - 10.45%40 0.184 114590 0.164 -4.17% 0.171 102612 - 10.45%45 0.206 100963 0.184 -4.26% 0.192 090410 - 10.45%50 0.214 111091 0.190 -4.35% 0.199 099479 - 10.45%55 0.220 124024 0.196 -4.44% 0.205 111060 - 10.45%60 0.244 108805 0.217 -4.53% 0.227 097432 - 10.45%65 0.258 109085 0.229 -4.62% 0.240 097683 - 10.45%70 0.272 109478 0.241 -4.71% 0.253 098035 - 10.45%75 0.300 0.266 -4.72% 0.27980 0.300 0.266 -4.72% 0.27985 0.300 0.266 -4.72% 0.279 The interesting thing is that a square rod should be eitherthinner and lighter for the same stresses or faster for the sameweight. I thought I had read that quadrate rods were heavy andslow; were these rods square or rectangular? Square rods alsoavoid the concentration of stress problem in pentagonal rods thatGarrison rants against near the end of his book.Am I missing something? Have I been misinformed regarding thecharacteristics of quadrate rods? Why aren't fly rods square?I don't think I could ever appreciate a square rod aestheticallywhen compared to a hex but are there other reasons? regards,Davidhood@fc.hp.com P.S. Yes, I do need to quit playing with this spreadsheet andgo plane some cane! from sats@gte.net Mon May 19 18:39:05 1997 Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR In a British Isle publication, "Fly-fisnig & Fly-tying" Is an interview withTomMoran, Considered to be one of the best, if not the best British cainbuilders. When the interviewer ask what advantages Tom believed cain offered oversynthetic materials for rod making, Tom replied "None. But then no onehas tolive in a thatched cottage: it's just what some people choose to do." I'd have to agree. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Mon May 19 21:29:52 1997 0000 Subject: Wise Fisherman's Encyc. Hi all, I have two extra books if anyone is interested. The Wise Fisherman'sEncyclopedia 1951 and Advanced Custom Rod Building by Clemens. Emailofflist if interested. Also have a list of bamboo fishable and project rods available. Email arequest for the rod list and I will email it to you. Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods from russett@bcn.net Mon May 19 22:07:18 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA04909 for Subject: Re: Rod Finishes Doug You commented that you had trouble with ink staying when you finishedyour rods. been there done that. buy some black india ink and the oldfashoned dipping pen. (whatever their called) Go to the best artsupply store in your area and they should be able to help you. mine let me try several pens and inks on pencils to see what i liked. Good luck Larry from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue May 20 03:32:32 1997 JAA26501 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 09:32:21+0100 Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR In a British Isle publication, "Fly-fisnig & Fly-tying" Is an interviewwith TomMoran, Considered to be one of the best, if not the best British cainbuilders. When the interviewer ask what advantages Tom believed cain offeredoversynthetic materials for rod making, Tom replied "None. But then no onehas tolive in a thatched cottage: it's just what some people choose to do." I'd have to agree. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net Very nice quote Terry, but I just have to correct you on one thing. With alldue respect to Moran, received wisdom here places Edward Barder ofNewbury,in Berkshire as the BEST British maker, followed closely by Shaun LinsleyofStour Provost in Dorset. There are some good makers here, Moran included,but the two mentioned are fields ahead. If Barder ain't the best, you wantto stand well clear when someone is fool enough to tell him so. John Cooper (England) from flytier@worldonline.nl Tue May 20 05:42:27 1997 (MET DST) Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR John Cooper wrote: Very nice quote Terry, but I just have to correct you on one thing. Withalldue respect to Moran, received wisdom here places Edward Barder ofNewbury,in Berkshire as the BEST British maker, followed closely by ShaunLinsley ofStour Provost in Dorset. There are some good makers here, Moranincluded,but the two mentioned are fields ahead. If Barder ain't the best, you wantto stand well clear when someone is fool enough to tell him so. John Cooper (England) John, You have piqued my curiosity now. I have five rods Tom Moran built me,and like them a lot. Both taper and finish agree with me ;-) If there are better rods produced in the UK I sure would like tosee/hear more about it. Any addidtional info you can give me on the work done by Barker and/orProvost? Thanks,Hans ============ You have friends in Low Places ============Hans Weilenmann Tel: +31 204853583Elsevier Science b.v Fax: +31 204853230Amsterdam, The Netherlands Email: h.weilenmann@elsevier.nl================================================ from jonrc@atlantic.net Tue May 20 07:03:22 1997 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA03931 for; Tue, 20 May 1997 07:18:30 -0400 rio.atlantic.net (8.8.5/8.7.5) with SMTP id IAA01033 for; Tue, 20 May 1997 08:02:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Rod Finishes WDHCJL@aol.com wrote: I am attemting to utilize a hand rubbed tung oil finish on my rods. Iknowmost everyone likes to use dip tubes etc., but I like the classical simplelook I can get without applying heavier finishes. Now the problem! I havenot been able to place maker information on the butt section that willremainon the rod (It rubs off after application). Although I have not tried it, Iwas thinking of using a lacqer normally used in taxidermy (it is verythin)and airbrushing it on. Hopefully, this could be limited to the area overthewritten information and some how match the "tung oil" look that is ontherest of the rod. Any other ideas?Thanks,Doug HallDecatur, Ga Doug,I use tung oil on my rods, but over the signatures I put a coat ofvarnish. I always put a decorative trim wrap 1 1/2" to 2" up from thegrip and varnish that area.-- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water. Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Tue May 20 07:30:26 1997 Subject: Re: Rod Finishes I used old fashioned India Ink and it stuck well to my Tung Oil finish. Jim. from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue May 20 09:14:20 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Nomenclature The interesting thread on india ink for documenting rods prompts me toask what list members' preferences are for rod 'signatures'? Length/line weight/taper source/maker's name, etc. Any standards out there. I'm asking as my first (two!) rods are moving right along and I'm concerned that I will forget to record some vital statistic after the varnish has dried! Also, do you write on the top hex, bottom hex, or what? I would be interested to learn of customs and practices in this area. TIA ThomasP@nacm,.com from MasjC1@aol.com Tue May 20 17:10:20 1997 Subject: Re: [Fwd: bamboo repairman needed] Contact Micheal Sinclair at: Caneclinic@aol.com phone 303 292 2979 from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue May 20 19:13:16 1997 Subject: Concerning Grips I have been setting here for a couple of days disconnected or ratherconnected to the wrong line - I have been doing a tcp/ip through a localserver and it seems that the phone company switched a couple linerecently -with only 2 data lines in a town it seems like it wouldn't be hard to figureout - but instead of hitting the net I've been tapping into the local bankprovider - Gee this might not be all bad - what was that pin again. Anyway - grip sizing is an area that is a pet issue of mine - mostmodern grips are wrong - they are too small especially in the smallerrods.When you grip a rod there should be 1/8" between the pad of the hand andthetip of the third finger. Anything less and you will be uncomfortable fishing of7-5 (6 1/2" grips) - that means - starting at the front of the handle - theslope climbs for 7 rings then crests and declines for 5 rings. the crest isnormally 1 - 1/16" in diameter with the front 5/8" and the back 3/4".It's simple to try - glue up some cork on a dowel rod and spin a handle.Secondly - this nonsense about a ladies handle - ladies usually havelessfat on their hands and the fat is on the inward side of the centerline of thefingers - so they need just as big a grip even though their fingers might bea little shorter than the other group that occupy the streams. Wayne (Now under construction) http://members.aol.com/waynecatt/index.html from cbogart@shentel.net Tue May 20 19:19:14 1997 UAA29472 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:23:06-0400 Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR TerryI have to disagree on the advantages of cane over graphite streams in the Blue Ridge Mountains of VA. Basic trueth of the matteris that Graphite cannot make the short. delicate, and accurate castsrequired for this fishing. I have the "so-called" best graphite rod forthese conditions that I let customers cast - then go with cane. No comparison. Maybe for other conditions there is no difference but made believers out of seasoned guides. This is what drove meinto doing cane vice plastic - the material could not perform up tomy abilities as a fisherman - cane has lived up to it - I can flat outfish a plastic rod on any stream of my choosing. On Mon, 19 May 1997 23:19:02 GMT, Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: In a British Isle publication, "Fly-fisnig & Fly-tying" Is an interview withTomMoran, Considered to be one of the best, if not the best British cainbuilders. When the interviewer ask what advantages Tom believed cain offeredoversynthetic materials for rod making, Tom replied "None. But then no onehas tolive in a thatched cottage: it's just what some people choose to do." I'd have to agree. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net Regards Chris from sats@gte.net Tue May 20 19:24:40 1997 Subject: Re: Cork Grips In a message dated 97-05-19 10:16:30 EDT, you write: My question is: What is the 'correct' grip shape and length from bothusage and aesthetic points of view, My first rods had "Western" or reversed half Wells (plastic and rebuiltBamboo.) My last rod had a half wells. I believe it's a classic look. I alsoused a salvaged "antique" reel seat. I wouldn't want them on every rod,buton this one it looks okay... Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Tue May 20 19:24:42 1997 Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR In a British Isle publication, "Fly-fisnig & Fly-tying" Is an interviewwith TomMoran, Considered to be one of the best, if not the best British cainbuilders. Very nice quote Terry, but I just have to correct you on one thing. With alldue respect to Moran, received wisdom here places Edward Barder ofNewbury,in Berkshire as the BEST British maker, followed closely by Shaun LinsleyofStour Provost in Dorset. There are some good makers here, Moranincluded,but the two mentioned are fields ahead. If Barder ain't the best, you wantto stand well clear when someone is fool enough to tell him so. We Yanks get so little information on the coming and going on your side ofthepond. I hope you'll fill us in from time to time. Terry K. (Scots Irish and proud of it...!!!)Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from cbogart@shentel.net Tue May 20 19:28:19 1997 UAA29583 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 20:32:12-0400 Subject: Re: Concerning Grips Wayne I agree with you that a lot of the commercial grips are pure crap - Itismarketing hype - small grips for small rods. Put on a comfortable gripthat the fisher(person?) at the end of the day did not notice. It is funny -serious fisher(person) like my grips and Yuppies don't - they go for image. I fishseriously - So.... Regards Chris from gylesl@darla.badm.sc.edu Tue May 20 20:52:37 1997 TCP;Tue, 20 May 97 21:51:59 EDT 20 May 97 21:52:00 EST5EDT EST5EDT Subject: Help ... Before I get flamed - I know this is not FF@ list ... and since I have been setting on the fence listening to the discussion for the last year I have a related but unrelated question for the list ... I'll be in Seattle on business from June 7 - 12 and would love to take a day off for a little ff'ing ... can anyone recommend a guide? Many thanks in advance ... Leon Gyles Leon GylesUniversity of South CarolinaSprings Business LibraryColumbia, SC 29208(803) 777-3470 FAX (803) 777-6876 from jfoster@gte.net Tue May 20 22:58:54 1997 Subject: Re: New Online Well, I've been updating the page again.. REC is now posted undersuppliers..Wayne's new page ( Do I perceive some influence from Lyndi? purple business cards..really Wayne) is linked under rodmakers..and theGrizzly and MSC pages are linked. Jerry PS: Welcome to the new members and who is WDHCJL? from santiago@ricochet.net Tue May 20 23:31:18 1997 VAA19190 for ; Tue, 20 May 1997 21:30:42 Subject: Re: Help ... Leon Gyles wrote: Before I get flamed - I know this is not FF@ list ... and since Ihave been setting on the fence listening to the discussion for thelast year I have a related but unrelated question for the list ... I'll be in Seattle on business from June 7 - 12 and would love totake a day off for a little ff'ing ... can anyone recommend a guide? Many thanks in advance ... Leon Gyles Leon GylesUniversity of South CarolinaSprings Business LibraryColumbia, SC 29208(803) 777-3470 FAX (803) 777-6876 sure leon, email me directly. santiago@ricochet.net rivers will be out, but we have a few very nice lakes that are fishingwell. from bciesiel@goisd.k12.mi.us Wed May 21 05:32:09 1997 SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Wed, 21 May 1997 06:34:07 - 0400 Subject: Rod Restoration I have recently purchased what I believe to be a pre-1920'schubb( unmarked? ) rod with NS machined serreted ferules(GeorgeVarney?), NS sliding band reel seat, reverse English snake guides down to 4/0, swelled butt, and round loop tip tops. It has redmain wraps with some black tipping and red intermediates. I wouldlike to restore this rod to original specs but some of the snakeguides and stripper are missing. Is there a source for the Englishsnake guides and does anyone know if the snake guide was red agate?Any help will be greatly appreciated. Brian Ciesielczyk from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed May 21 06:47:49 1997 Subject: Re: New Online Sorry about the lack of information on the who part (remember I'm new online). Actually right after I sent that it occurred to me that no one wouldknow who wdhcjl was. I'm Doug Hall a "Wayne" built rod builder from theAtlanta area. I will be at the TBBBQ (2nd time) and hopefully you will alsoand we can catch up.Doug Hallwdhcjl from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Wed May 21 07:58:36 1997 05:58:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Rod Restoration The Angler's Workshop in Woodland WA has English snakes in blued, bronze,andchrome finishes. Call 800-278-1069. --Rich------------------------------ I have recently purchased what I believe to be a pre-1920'schubb( unmarked? ) rod with NS machined serreted ferules(GeorgeVarney?), NS sliding band reel seat, reverse English snake guides down to 4/0, swelled butt, and round loop tip tops. It has redmain wraps with some black tipping and red intermediates. I wouldlike to restore this rod to original specs but some of the snakeguides and stripper are missing. Is there a source for the Englishsnake guides and does anyone know if the snake guide was red agate?Any help will be greatly appreciated. Brian Ciesielczyk ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 03:41:08-0700 SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Wed, 21 May 1997 06:34:07 - 0400 Subject: Rod Restoration from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed May 21 09:31:10 1997 Subject: Re: Rod Restoration RO>The Angler's Workshop in Woodland WA has English snakes in blued,bronze, anRO>chrome finishes. Call 800-278-1069. RO>I have recently purchased what I believe to be a pre-1920'sRO>chubb( unmarked? ) rod with NS machined serreted ferules(GeorgeRO> Varney?), NS sliding band reel seat, reverse English snake guidesRO>down to 4/0, swelled butt, and round loop tip tops. It has redRO>main wraps with some black tipping and red intermediates. I wouldRO>like to restore this rod to original specs but some of the snakeRO>guides and stripper are missing. Is there a source for the EnglishRO>snake guides and does anyone know if the snake guide was red agate?RO>Any help will be greatly appreciated. RO> Brian Ciesielczyk The bronze H&H snake guides won't take a Brass Black coating - must besomething other than true bronze material. Try to find a copy of Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbook" too. I think Angler's sells it - if not Cabela's does.Chubb/Varney rods will be listed under Montague. Don Burns from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed May 21 09:51:24 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Cheap ferrules I ordered some of the $2 ferrules from Jann's Netcraft catalog and must confess that the quality seems very poor. They are indented crudely on the female to ensure a tight fit - same on both pairs. If this is typical I cannot recommend these ferrules. Guess you get what you pay for! ThomasP@nacm.com from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed May 21 10:16:04 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Great web page Looks like Frank Neunemann had redone his web page - the new one issuperb - great pictures and content. Check it out at: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/ ThomasP@nacm.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed May 21 10:39:58 1997 Subject: cork grips I've played around a great deal with grips over the years, including customshapes with thumb depressions, palm reliefs, and finger grooves. I finallysettled on the full wells for heavier rods, and the cigar for light andmedium weights. One variation on the cigar that deserves mention is tomakeit with an oval cross section. You turn the cork about 1/16 inch heavierthanyour normal preference, and then sand a flat on either side of the grip. I dothis by feel, but usually end up taking off slightly less than 1/8 inchtotal. When it feels right, sand the edges of the flats until they blend insmoothly. The oval is the traditional handle shape for tools such as thehammer and the hatchet. Partially close your hand and look down thetunnelformed by your fingers. What shape do you see? -- Tom from maiello@yorku.ca Wed May 21 10:55:03 1997 (lC1QJbMQUD9J4V3fr0vRW244UJQDM8s+@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA01633 for ; Subject: greenheart rods Hi there.I've seen some talk about greenheart rods.Can anyone tell me how they are built?Are they 6 pieces glued together or are they one piece made round somehow?Thanks in advance for any helpMauro Aiello from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed May 21 11:07:33 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA16370 for; Wed, 21 May 1997 12:07:30 -0400 Subject: Re: Cheap ferrules Tom, I did not have the same experience as you. I'm not saying the quality is great, but it served my purpose. When I make a really great blank, I'll dig deep for the Nickel $ilver. I ordered some of the $2 ferrules from Jann's Netcraft catalog and must confess that the quality seems very poor. They are indented crudely onthe female to ensure a tight fit - same on both pairs. If this is typical I cannot recommend these ferrules. Guess you get what you pay for! ThomasP@nacm.com Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed May 21 13:17:25 1997 with ESMTP id NAA21923 for ; Wed, 21 May dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id SISQADCT; Wed,21 May 1997 13:16:54 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Re: Cheap ferrules This raises an interesting question--what is so great about the "highquality"nickel silver ferrules, other than their obvious beauty? Could alternate,cheaper metals (like brass for instance) be turned and ground to the samehighprecision and an equally good ferrule be the result? Unlike some others, Ihaven't seen the Netcraft 2 dollar jobs but there has to be some reason--otherthan a wide variation in quality--that they cost roughly 1/20th of theprice ofCSEs. Anyone? ------------------Original text 12:06 PM:Tom, I did not have the same experience as you. I'm not saying the quality is great, but it served my purpose. When I make a really great blank, I'll dig deep for the Nickel $ilver. I ordered some of the $2 ferrules from Jann's Netcraft catalog and must confess that the quality seems very poor. They are indented crudely onthe female to ensure a tight fit - same on both pairs. If this is typical I cannot recommend these ferrules. Guess you get what you pay for! ThomasP@nacm.com Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed May 21 13:29:41 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA00010 for; Wed, 21 May 1997 14:29:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Cheap ferrules I raised this very question not long ago, the overall answer was the brass ones will not last as long. No one stated that you're suffering action or anything like that.... So..... If you are selling your rods, you have to go with Nickel $ilver because it is the standard to which you are compared. Otherwise, if you don't mind changing ferrules every once and awhile... go for cheap. This raises an interesting question--what is so great about the "highquality"nickel silver ferrules, other than their obvious beauty? Could alternate,cheaper metals (like brass for instance) be turned and ground to thesame highprecision and an equally good ferrule be the result? Unlike some others, Ihaven't seen the Netcraft 2 dollar jobs but there has to be some reason--otherthan a wide variation in quality--that they cost roughly 1/20th of theprice ofCSEs. Anyone? ------------------Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Wed May 21 14:10:08 1997 12:09:34 -0700 Subject: Re: Cheap ferrules In addition to the metal used, there are design features that show up onthemore expensive n/s ones that aren't on the cheaper ones, namely, endserrations and waterproof caps. There's no reason why these featurescan't beadded to CPB ferrules, but no one does to my knowledge. BTW, many highquality Hardy rods have pure brass (sometimes blackened) ferrules. I don'thave any experience with these but they look and "feel" (fit and "pop") justfine. --Rich------------------------------ I raised this very question not long ago, the overall answer was the brass ones will not last as long. No one stated that you're suffering action or anything like that.... So..... If you are selling your rods, you have to go with Nickel $ilver because it is the standard to which you are compared. Otherwise, if you don't mind changing ferrules every once and awhile... go for cheap. This raises an interesting question--what is so great about the "highquality"nickel silver ferrules, other than their obvious beauty? Could alternate,cheaper metals (like brass for instance) be turned and ground to thesamehighprecision and an equally good ferrule be the result? Unlike some others, Ihaven't seen the Netcraft 2 dollar jobs but there has to be somereason--otherthan a wide variation in quality--that they cost roughly 1/20th of thepriceofCSEs. Anyone? ------------------Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 11:36:02-0700 mailhub.hitchcock.org(8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA00010 for;Wed, 21 May 1997 14:29:36 -0400 Subject: Re: Cheap ferrules from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Wed May 21 14:30:14 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 1224; Wed, 21 May 97 15:28:47 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 4484; Wed, 21 May1997 15:28:48 -0400Subject: Re: Concerning Grips Any suggestions why my pointer finger always seems togo numb after a few hours of casting. Most of my rodsare full wells grips. It doesn't seem to matter if I'musing a 7.5' trout rod or a 14' spey rod. Sure is abother. I hadn't thought I was making the grips toosmall, but maybe?? Anyone have a similar experience? Bob. from SalarFly@aol.com Wed May 21 14:50:10 1997 Subject: Dust Free Drying Chamber New idea for a dip tube and dust free drying chamber: This is for the folks who like to dip their rods with theguides already on. Materials:PVC pipe - 2 lengths, both as long as the longest section youthink you will ever make, plus the length of the handle and reel seat.3 end caps - To fit the PVC pipe.4 hose clamps - to fit around the PVC pipe.Wood Screws - fairly large sized, to attach the hose clamps to awall or ?Transparency film - from any stationary store. Or any clearplastic sheet. Glue an end cap on one end of each pipe. In one end cap drill a hole just big enough to be able to thread a string through it.Mount the hose clamps on a vertical surface somewhere. Forme it's along an exposed stud in my garage. All you need is awood screw through the slots of the hose clamp into the wood.Put the pipe with out the hole end cap down. This is going to be your dip tube. Put the other pipe (with the hole) end cap up above the dip tube. Leave about a 4 inch gap between the two. This is how you use it. Take down the top tube, thread a string( use a fairly stout string - nylon monofilament might be thebest choice - no potential for adding dust inside the dryingchamber) through the hole in the top end cap, and tie it toyour rod section. Pull the rod section up into the pipe, andmount it above the dip tube again. Tape the clear plastic sheet between the dip tube and drying tube - this is yourviewing window. Lower the section down into the varnish,and draw it back up. You can use your favorite method topull the section up, by hand, rod turning motor, steppermotor, rotisserie motor, etc. The advantage to this is ifyou like to dip your sections with the guides already wrappedyou can see when your guide clears the varnish and stop tolet the varnish drain off. When the section is drawn all the way into the top tube, letit sit for a while so all the drips are gone ( if you draw it outslow enough there will be no drips ). Then remove the plasticsheet and tape a rag on the bottom of the top tube. Use a ragso that the section will dry. If you seal it entirely, the sectionwill dry, but very slowly. This gives you a low cost dust free space to dry the section. Your varnish can stay in the tube if you want - that's what the third end cap is for. Wayne C says he has kept his varnish in his dip tube for years. I usually take it off the wall and pour it back in to the can. Darryl Hayashida from harry37@epix.net Wed May 21 15:04:41 1997 PAA07117 Subject: Re: Cheap ferrules Rich Margiotta wrote: In addition to the metal used, there are design features that show up onthemore expensive n/s ones that aren't on the cheaper ones, namely, endserrations and waterproof caps. There's no reason why these featurescan't beadded to CPB ferrules, but no one does to my knowledge. BTW, many highquality Hardy rods have pure brass (sometimes blackened) ferrules. Idon'thave any experience with these but they look and "feel" (fit and "pop")justfine. --Rich------------------------------Date: 5/21/97 11:43 AM From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu I raised this very question not long ago, the overall answer was thebrass ones will not last as long. No one stated that you're sufferingactionor anything like that....So..... If you are selling yourrods, you have to go with Nickel $ilver because it is the standard towhich you are compared. Otherwise, if you don't mind changingferrules every once and awhile... go for cheap. This raises an interesting question--what is so great about the "highquality"nickel silver ferrules, other than their obvious beauty? Couldalternate,cheaper metals (like brass for instance) be turned and ground to thesamehighprecision and an equally good ferrule be the result? Unlike someothers, Ihaven't seen the Netcraft 2 dollar jobs but there has to be somereason--otherthan a wide variation in quality--that they cost roughly 1/20th of thepriceofCSEs. Anyone? ------------------Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------Received: by cpqm.saic.com with ADMIN;21 May 1997 11:36:31 -0700Return-Path: Received: from wugate.wustl.edu by cpmx.mail.saic.com; Wed, 21 May 9711:36:02- 0700 Received: from mailhub.hitchcock.org (MAILHUB.HITCHCOCK.ORG mailhub.hitchcock.org(8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA00010 for;Wed, 21 May 1997 14:29:36 -0400Message-Id: Date: Wed, 21 May 1997 14:28:47 +0000 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "Thomas Ausfeld" Subject: Re: Cheap ferrulesMIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BITX-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.42a)X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN I'm just finishing up a refurb on a Philipson Pacemaker, and I needed toinstall new ferrules--I got two sets from Cortland (NS) and wassomewhat surprised to find out that I had to do a fair amount of lightmachining to get a god fit and pop. Now that I did all that, they fitwell, but it took about an hour per male ferrule to polish them down,using a drill chuck and progressively finer abrasives. This is the first cane refurb I've ever done--should I expect ferrulesthat don't fit together unless they're machined for a final fit, orshould I expect something closer? I got the ferrules at a nearby flyshop rather than mail order because I didn't know how to size themcorrectly, and I had to do a great deal of hand fitting on the blank tomake sure I got the right size. Any comments? from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed May 21 15:14:37 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Cheap ferrules Another Q on these - the poor quality ones I purchased have no 'legs' (not sure what to call these - the bit where you bind them.) Do I have to cut these or do I just glue them on the rod, reserving wraps TIA ThomasP@nacm.com from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed May 21 15:22:50 1997 Subject: Re: Cheap ferrules Sounds like Netcraft has has gone over to cheaper brand of ferrules thanwhat they had the last time I bought from them. I haven't purchased fromNetcraft since the buy out by Jann's. Maybe Angler's NPB ferrules are the better deal these days. Cost is abit higher, $3 vs $2. Angler's ferrules had a tight fit between themale/female portions the last time I bought from them (late last year).I did get a bad quality ferrule once from Angler's - male part wasmis-shappen. Which they replaced it for free. I've purchased from both companies in the past - often to replacecracked original NPB ferrules on Montague production rods. Since NS is a form of brass (white brass) the only difference should bethe Nickel added to the alloy. It's a non-galling material and thisshould lead to longer life compared to normal brass and maybe lessoxidation too. Assuming all other spec's were the same - which is most likely not true- a heavily nickel plated brass ferrule would be fine too. Remember -normally you get what you pay for. If it's cheaper by a factor of 20 - something's been left out. Thinnerwalls, poorer quality control and less time spent mating the male/femalehalves. IMHO, Don Burns from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed May 21 16:23:04 1997 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules RO>Another Q on these - the poor quality ones I purchased have no 'legs'(notRO>sure what to call these - the bit where you bind them.) RO>Do I have to cut these or do I just glue them on the rod, reservingwrapsRO>for decoratve purposes only? RO>TIA RO>ThomasP@nacm.com Tom - I think you mean serrations? The cheapies aren't designed forserrations - just glue them on. Then do a wrap up to the ferrule. Or wrap up to the ferrule and then doa 2nd wrap over the the end of the ferrule. There's a small blue plastic device - put out by Mildrum - it costs onlya few dollars. Designed for tiptop measuring and maybe ferrulemeasuring. This thing allows for some quick measuring in 64th's. It hasboth male and female sizes. The male projections are from 4/64ths to32/64ths, female holes are 4/64ths through 10/64ths. I don't know ifthis will help you at all. Don Burns from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Wed May 21 17:41:01 1997 0000 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules At 02:43 PM 5/21/97 -0600, you wrote: RO>Another Q on these - the poor quality ones I purchased have no 'legs'(notRO>sure what to call these - the bit where you bind them.) RO>Do I have to cut these or do I just glue them on the rod, reservingwrapsRO>for decoratve purposes only? RO>TIA RO>ThomasP@nacm.com Tom - I think you mean serrations? The cheapies aren't designed forserrations - just glue them on. Then do a wrap up to the ferrule. Or wrap up to the ferrule and then doa 2nd wrap over the the end of the ferrule. There's a small blue plastic device - put out by Mildrum - it costs onlya few dollars. Designed for tiptop measuring and maybe ferrulemeasuring. This thing allows for some quick measuring in 64th's. It hasboth male and female sizes. The male projections are from 4/64ths to32/64ths, female holes are 4/64ths through 10/64ths. I don't know ifthis will help you at all. Don Burns could someone please give me the phone number for Netcraft....i'm new torodbuilding and don't want to shell out $40 for NS ferrules on my first fewrods...Thanks in advance!! Matt Leidermanmleider@postoffice.ptd.nethttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from mrj@seanet.com Wed May 21 17:45:15 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19836 for Subject: Re: Dust Free Drying Chamber SalarFly@aol.com wrote: New idea for a dip tube and dust free drying chamber: This is for the folks who like to dip their rods with theguides already on. I can suggest the way I do it also. I have my dip tube installed in a 3 inch diameter cardboard tube. Ihave cut a hole on my stairs and in the top section I cut a door longenough to remove a rod. Just above the copper varnish tube I haveanother door I use to watch and clean the rod apon removal. I use a tackcloth on the rod prior to putting it in the tube and lowering it in thevarnish.- Martin Jensen from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed May 21 18:11:43 1997 TAA22409 for ; Wed, 21 May 1997 19:11:39 Subject: Multi-sided rods Hi David and the List, 5/20/97Haven't yet fully digested your message of 5/19/97 but a few questionshave come up.Wayne's famous 7' taper aroused so much interest that I am looking tobuilding it as next winter's project. I ran out the stresses and had markeddifferences from those you listed. My numbers, with standard weight 4line,50 foot casts and impact number 4 are much higher, for example 300,000plusat the 10 inch station, run on Histand's FLYROD software. Tom Smithwickverifies my results run on HEXROD software. Could we ask what constantsyouused in your stress calculations?One conclusion you seem to have reached is that five-siders stresses arelower than hex. This contradicts Mr G.'s geometry (p286) in that since thedistance between the point of the Five and its neutral axis is 1.2 timesthedistance between the bottom flat of the Six and its neutral axis, theworking stress of the Five will be 120 percent of that in the flat of theSix. The biggest problems with quad (square) rods aside from aestheticacceptance seem to be ferrules and availability of planing forms. Theyfishgreat. Bill from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed May 21 18:13:59 1997 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules RO>could someone please give me the phone number for Netcraft....i'm newto rodRO>building and don't want to shell out $40 for NS ferrules on my firstfewRO>rods...Thanks in advance!! RO>Matt Leiderman Matt, Three good catalogs are: Netcraft --- (800) netcraftAngler's Workshop -- (360) 225-9445Clemens -- (610) 395-5119 All 3 carry NPB ferrules - Netcraft must have some real low quality ones from feedback in this thread. Don Burns from delaney@acc.mcneese.edu Wed May 21 18:28:25 1997 SAA21194; Wed, 21 May 1997 18:28:23 -0500 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules In Netcraft's defense, they sell several models of nickel plated brass ferrule. I have never used the low end ones. The slightly more expensive ones (~$4.00-6.00) have given me good service on several restorations of low end South Bend bamboo rods. Mark in Lousiana On Wed, 21 May 1997 flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>could someone please give me the phone number for Netcraft....i'mnew to rodRO>building and don't want to shell out $40 for NS ferrules on my firstfewRO>rods...Thanks in advance!! RO>Matt Leiderman Matt, Three good catalogs are: Netcraft --- (800) netcraftAngler's Workshop -- (360) 225-9445Clemens -- (610) 395-5119 All 3 carry NPB ferrules - Netcraft must have some real low quality ones from feedback in this thread. Don Burns from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Wed May 21 19:15:42 1997 Subject: dip tubes Since we started talking dip tubes again, is there a way to eliminate the "ripple effect" from removing the rod and turning on a rod turner. I like the results much more than brushing, but do get some very slight ripples. Mac, if you are out there, I am dipping buddy. Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Several South Bends, a couple Montagues, one Heddon,and a '71 Triumph that I have not touched sinceI started rebuilding bamboo. from rec@flyfishers.com Wed May 21 19:40:47 1997 mail2.nai.net (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA27679 for Subject: Re: Rod Restoration Brian Ciesielczyk wrote: I have recently purchased what I believe to be a pre-1920'schubb( unmarked? ) rod with NS machined serreted ferules(GeorgeVarney?), NS sliding band reel seat, reverse English snake guidesdown to 4/0, swelled butt, and round loop tip tops. It has redmain wraps with some black tipping and red intermediates. I wouldlike to restore this rod to original specs but some of the snakeguides and stripper are missing. Is there a source for the Englishsnake guides and does anyone know if the snake guide was red agate?Any help will be greatly appreciated. Brian CiesielczykBrian, we may be able to help you out on the guides if you can bespecific on quantity, size and color. Best regards, REC Components Alan Gnann from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Wed May 21 20:12:39 1997 Subject: Re: greenheart rods Greenheart rods are solid wood and generally were not laminated,although there have been hardwood rods that were laminated; however notin hex sections. They are made by using drawknives, spokeshaves andscrapers with a semicircular notch of varying sizes. I have been usinga block plane with some success in the early stages Ralph Moon from sats@gte.net Wed May 21 20:27:07 1997 Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR TerryI have to disagree on the advantages of cane over graphite streams in the Blue Ridge Mountains of VA. Basic trueth of the matteris that Graphite cannot make the short. delicate, and accurate castsrequired for this fishing. I have two 9ft. 7wt. rods. One graphite and one bamboo. The bamboo is ofaquestionable heratige. (It was given to me by a friend in a church parkinglot,one evening. He'd dug it out of a trash can. A son was cleaning out hisfathersgarage. ) I can cast the graphite maybe 5 ft further then the bamboo. The difference is in HOW the two rods cast. The graphite is very stiff andspringy, The bambo much more flexable. With the graphite I do all thework.To cast the bamboo rod, I have to let IT do most of the work. The twocastingstrokes are almost exactly opposite, but they produce almost identicalresults. I also had my day saved by the happy circumstance of having a 6ft. cain rodwithme one day in North Carolina. I enjoy fishing cain because it fits mycastingstyle. But there are days that I use nothing but graphite. I'm loading mycar andsome glass. Each rod has it's own personallity. And if I'm in the mood forthat rod, that's the one I'll fish. (but I do enjoy working with bamboo.) Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from mrj@seanet.com Wed May 21 20:34:23 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25082 for Subject: Re: dip tubes Robert Clarke wrote: Since we started talking dip tubes again, is there a way to eliminate the"ripple effect" from removing the rod and turning on a rod turner. Ilike the results much more than brushing, but do get some very slightripples. Mac, if you are out there, I am dipping buddy. Correct me if I am wrong. You are dipping your rod and then removing itand mounting it horizontally in a rod turner?If this is correct than maybe that is the problem. I let mine hangvertically and have not had a problem. Martin Jensen from russett@bcn.net Wed May 21 20:47:45 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA15718 for Subject: re dip tube I to use a dip tube. Rippleing can be caused by turning the rod fordrying, pulling the rod out of the varnish to quickly, varnish thats tothick, and once I tried dipping the rod leaving it in for a while 15 minor so then starting the removing process. by the time the second halfof the rod came out what a rippley mess. It appears the varnish in thetube disolved what was on the rod. My advice experiment with your brand. If you dont like it try removethe varnish try it again until you like the results. Good luck Larry from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed May 21 22:10:54 1997 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules RO>In Netcraft's defense, they sell several models of nickel plated brassRO>ferrule. I have never used the low end ones. The slightly moreRO>expensive ones (~$4.00-6.00) have given me good service on severalRO>restorations of low end South Bend bamboo rods. RO>Mark in Lousiana Mark - how did you find these ferrules? I don't see them listed in thecatalog. Don B. from bciesiel@goisd.k12.mi.us Wed May 21 22:43:22 1997 SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Wed, 21 May 1997 23:45:18 - 0400 Subject: Rod Restoration Subject: English style snake guides for Chubb rod The sizes and numbers I would need are as follows:1-4/02-3/02-2/01-1/0Do you have these sizes or anything close and do you have a catalog that I could purchase from? Thank'sBrian from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu May 22 05:04:36 1997 LAA20993 for ; Thu, 22 May 1997 11:04:24+0100 Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR John Cooper wrote: Very nice quote Terry, but I just have to correct you on one thing. Withalldue respect to Moran, received wisdom here places Edward Barder ofNewbury,in Berkshire as the BEST British maker, followed closely by ShaunLinsley ofStour Provost in Dorset. There are some good makers here, Moranincluded,but the two mentioned are fields ahead. If Barder ain't the best, youwantto stand well clear when someone is fool enough to tell him so. John Cooper (England) John, You have piqued my curiosity now. I have five rods Tom Moran built me,and like them a lot. Both taper and finish agree with me ;-) If there are better rods produced in the UK I sure would like tosee/hear more about it. Any addidtional info you can give me on the work done by Barker and/orProvost? Thanks,Hans ============ You have friends in Low Places ============Hans Weilenmann Tel: +31 204853583Elsevier Science b.v Fax: +31 204853230Amsterdam, The Netherlands Email: h.weilenmann@elsevier.nl================================================ Hans and others, The two makers mentioned can be recommended without reservation. I owntwoBarder rods, and can report that they are faultless, both in utility andfinish (oooooh the finish!!!!). I have seen and used Linsley rods, and amnow saving hard. To use a new and not very British expression that my sonpicked up on his MBA course, they are 'gob-smackingly wonderful'. Such ismodern education. Barder is very haughty and arrogant: probably with good reason. Hisdeliveries are extended. His mood variable. The results are worth the wait,and the occasional haughty 'dressing-down'. Prices are high by Britishstandards, but lower than many American makers. He produces a veryseductivecatalogue. Considered by many to be the best. Linsley is a delightfully laid-back chap. Utterly capable, but quiteunassuming in his manner. Prices are lower than Barder's (what Linsleythinks is fair, rather than as much as he can possibly get). Produces a lessimpressive sales brochure: but my advice is not to allow that to cloud yourjudgement - the results are much more impressive. Has a fast-growingfollowing, some of whom have been previous Barder customers. Both men are one or two-man bands trying to make a living, so if they areupto their eyes in wet glue they can't afford to drop everything to talk forhours. They therefore (very sensibly) use an answerphone machine to filtertime wasters. Neither would want to have to call back at internationaltelephone call rates, so you should write if possible: or put a message onthe answerphone saying when you will call again. Both would expect you tomake an appointemnt, rather than just appear at their workshop door. In either case, you will probably have any rod you buy from them buriedwithyou in your coffin. Edward Barder Rod CompanyHam MillLondon RoadNewburyBerkshire RG13 2BU Telephone: 1635.552916 Shaun Linsley Split Cane RodsJenamyMill LaneStour ProvostGillinghamDorsetTelephone: 1747.838251 John Cooper (England) from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Thu May 22 10:06:17 1997 Subject: Re: re dip tube May 21, 97 09:37:27 pm Thanks Larry. I will give it a try, also thanks to Martin. I will hang the rods instead of turning. Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu May 22 10:09:20 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Best of The Planing Form An excellent book, full of articles form past issues of TPF. I'mmeandering through mine and learning a lot. I only wish it was available in hardback, Thomas. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 22 10:15:11 1997 Subject: Ripples in the Finish Two things I've noticed producing ripples in a varnish finish:Drawing the rod out of a dip tube too fast. This producesdrips and runs more than ripples.Not letting a previous coat dry long enough before tryingto apply the next coat. This depends on the varnish youuse, but since this is a hobby and I have to go to work,I have to let each coat dry at least 24 hours. I've never tried dipping and then turning with a motor.The only reason I would see to do this is if your varnishwas too thick and you neede to do this to avoid runs. Darryl Hayashida from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu May 22 10:22:28 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Dipping tube Darryl - having built one of your dip tubes (I'm going to try Behr Spar Varnish) do I remember correctly that you set the drain rate for about 7 minues? (I'm at 75-85F ambient in San Diego) Also, how long do you let each coat dry, do you do anything to the finish between coats and how many coats is 'right'? TIA ThomasP@nacm.com from delaney@acc.mcneese.edu Thu May 22 11:15:35 1997 LAA24047; Thu, 22 May 1997 11:15:32 -0500 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules I ordered them about the time Jann's was buying Netcraft (last of stock maybe?) - I'm not sure they are in Jann's Netcraft's new complete catalog which I only got last week. If you got a catalog that was from earlier intheyear that apparently was an intermediate catalog and many items werenot in that one. I've been too busy at work (getting home at 10pm doesn't leave much time for hobbies)- haven't done much of anything for about a month. I hope to be able to do more this summer. Anyway, the ferrules I received were of high quality, but were at a premium price compared to the low end ones. Mark in LA On Wed, 21 May 1997 flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>In Netcraft's defense, they sell several models of nickel plated brassRO>ferrule. I have never used the low end ones. The slightly moreRO>expensive ones (~$4.00-6.00) have given me good service on severalRO>restorations of low end South Bend bamboo rods. RO>Mark in Lousiana Mark - how did you find these ferrules? I don't see them listed in thecatalog. Don B. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 22 12:14:01 1997 Subject: Re: Dipping tube In a message dated 97-05-22 12:02:41 EDT, you write: Darryl - having built one of your dip tubes (I'm going to try Behr Spar Varnish) do I remember correctly that you set the drain rate for about 7 minues? (I'm at 75-85F ambient in San Diego) This depends on the viscosity of your varnish. I like to use a thinnervarnish and usually thin it out by about 20% thinner. Another factoris if you are dipping just the blank, or a rod with the guides areadywrapped. You have to go slower if you have the guides on. A goodballpark rate is around 4 inches per minute. Also, how long do you let each coat dry, do you do anything to the finish between coats and how many coats is 'right'? As I said in my previous post today under rippled finishes, since I haveto work during the day, each coat dries for about 20 to 24 hours. Iusually don't have to do anything between coats, but if it should happenthat I have to let it sit for several days, I steel wool it first then put onthe next coat. As far as how many coats, it's all up to you. I use three,but I use a really thinned out varnish. I have seen rods that look likethey have an eigth of an inch thick coat on them. Some people likethis, some people don't. Darryl Hayashida from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Thu May 22 13:13:25 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 4664; Thu, 22 May 97 14:12:03 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 3126; Thu, 22 May1997 14:12:04 -0400Subject: Discount on N/S ferrules I am about purchase some "Super Swiss" ferrules fromClassic Sporting Enterprises. They will offer discounts formass orders. If any of you would be interested, please letme know off list. I expect if we have enough peopleinterested we can all see a discount of about 30-35% includingshipping. (I.e., I'll make one large order and ship toeach of you.) The same discount applies to winding checksand hk keepers. Expect 3-pc ferrule sets to be about $30each including shipping, or possibly a bit less. Inorder to judge if there is enough interest, let me know offlist the number of ferrule sets you'd be interested in. I'll getback to you next week with price details etc., and place theorder soon thereafter.Hope you all have a fine holidayweekend. Leaving today for the West Branch, and back ontuesday, Bob. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu May 22 13:45:24 1997 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules RO>I ordered them about the time Jann's was buying Netcraft (last ofstockRO>maybe?) - I'm not sure they are in Jann's Netcraft's new completecatalogRO>which I only got last week. If you got a catalog that was from earlierin tRO>year that apparently was an intermediate catalog and many items werenot inRO>that one. I've been too busy at work (getting home at 10pm doesn'tRO>leave much time for hobbies)- haven't done much of anything for aboutaRO>month. I hope to be able to do more this summer. Anyway, the ferrulesIRO>received were of high quality, but were at a premium price comparedtoRO>the low end ones. Mark in LA Mark, I've got both catalogs and the last of the pre-Jann's catalogs, noneshow anything but one level of NPB ferrules. Maybe they still have thebetter ones, if you ask for them. I see they've put the $8 wood troutnet back into the lastest catalog. One of the best deals around, IMHO.I hear you regarding work and play. I've always said the ratio ofwork to play days was reversed from what it should be. Don Burns from delaney@acc.mcneese.edu Thu May 22 15:38:15 1997 PAA28819; Thu, 22 May 1997 15:37:59 -0500 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules I may have order from a winter 95/96 catalog. If you are like me, I can never seem to find the latest. I know I saw the cheaper ferrules, and they had a premium grade in whatever catalog I ordered from. I didin't trust the cheaper priced ones- seemed to be too good a deal to me to be of a high quality. If they no longer carry the premium ferrules I'll have to start looking for another source. Fortunately, I bought a lot of ferrules of various sizes the last time I bought any. I just used a set to make a 7 foot fiberglass spinning rod (2-piece so it will fit in her car) for my wife for surf fishing. I saw no problems with them, they fit well and seemed of high quality. But I know I paid more like $6.00 for that set and eneded up waiting so long I had just about written off the order when it finally showed up. Just looked through Cabela's Tackle craft catalog I got yesterday. Couldn't find a ferrule in it anywhere. Seems to be getting harder and harder to find these things. - Mark. On Thu, 22 May 1997 flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>I ordered them about the time Jann's was buying Netcraft (last ofstockRO>maybe?) - I'm not sure they are in Jann's Netcraft's new completecatalogRO>which I only got last week. If you got a catalog that was fromearlier in tRO>year that apparently was an intermediate catalog and many itemswere not inRO>that one. I've been too busy at work (getting home at 10pm doesn'tRO>leave much time for hobbies)- haven't done much of anything forabout aRO>month. I hope to be able to do more this summer. Anyway, theferrules IRO>received were of high quality, but were at a premium price comparedtoRO>the low end ones. Mark in LA Mark, I've got both catalogs and the last of the pre-Jann's catalogs, noneshow anything but one level of NPB ferrules. Maybe they still have thebetter ones, if you ask for them. I see they've put the $8 wood troutnet back into the lastest catalog. One of the best deals around, IMHO.I hear you regarding work and play. I've always said the ratio ofwork to play days was reversed from what it should be. Don Burns from hood@hpesdah.fc.hp.com Thu May 22 15:47:02 1997 palrel3.hp.com with SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id NAA03318 for (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA20154; Thu, 22 May 1997 14:46:51 -0600 Subject: Re: Multi-sided rods Bill,I used a 40' cast length in my calculations and an impact factorof 4. Maybe Wayne can tell us what he used? I use a spreadsheetbased on Garrison's equations except instead of two and a halfiterations that Garrison used I can iterate until the numbersconverge; that should only produce a small difference.I'll have to reread Garrison on five sided rods! Davidhood@fc.hp.com from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu May 22 16:35:32 1997 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules - part 20? RO>I may have order from a winter 95/96 catalog. If you are like me, I canRO>never seem to find the latest. I know I saw the cheaper ferrules, andRO>they had a premium grade in whatever catalog I ordered from. I didin'tRO>trust the cheaper priced ones-seemed to be too good a deal to me to beofRO>a high quality. If they no longer carry the premium ferrules I'll haveRO>to start looking for another source. Fortunately, I bought a lot ofRO>ferrules of various sizes the last time I bought any. I just used a setRO>to make a 7 foot fiberglass spinning rod (2-piece so it will fit in herRO>car) for my wife for surf fishing. I saw no problems with them, theyfitRO>well and seemed of high quality. But I know I paid more like $6.00 forRO>that set and eneded up waiting so long I had just about written off theRO>order when it finally showed up. Just looked through Cabela's TackleRO>craft catalog I got yesterday. Couldn't find a ferrule in it anywhere.RO>Seems to be getting harder and harder to find these things. - Mark. I also noticed that the very smallest size (10/11) is no longer listedin the new Jann's catalogs. Different brand again? Angler's has an okay brand of quality NPB ferrules and Clemens has NPBferrules listed, but I haven't ordered ferrules from Clemens yet. Bothare a little more than Netcraft's price (~$1.00). Both also sell NS ferrules. I've got some real nice ones from somewhere, the ends are ground down these lately. Don Burns PS - Does anyone have any unused Perfection tungsten steel snakesguides? I've got some in sizes #1 and #2 - I'm looking for some smallerones. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu May 22 17:00:38 1997 Subject: Re:Dust Free Drying Chamber One other thing I forgot to mention.If you rub the outside of the upper drying pipe with a soft cloth, it getsrid of dust inside. It builds up a staticelectricity charge, but I don't know if it repels the dust, or sticks it to the PVC pipe. Either way, there is no dust driftingaround inside. Darryl Hayashida from delaney@acc.mcneese.edu Thu May 22 17:06:18 1997 RAA29181; Thu, 22 May 1997 17:06:15 -0500 Subject: RE:Cheap ferrules - part 20? Hopefully the last on ferrules for a while! I finally got a chance to look at the new Jann's Netcraft catalog - you're right the only ferrules they have are the $2.19 ones. To tell the truth, they look bad even from the drawing. I've ordered from Clemens before and been extremely pleased with the quality. What happened with Netcraft is that I think I may have bought out the last of their premium stock. (These ferrules are ground down, for an overwrap). Guess I was just lucky. I've never ordered from Angler's though. Used to be you could order a ferrule from almostanywhere! Mark in LA On Thu, 22 May 1997 flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>I may have order from a winter 95/96 catalog. If you are like me, IcanRO>never seem to find the latest. I know I saw the cheaper ferrules, andRO>they had a premium grade in whatever catalog I ordered from. Ididin'tRO>trust the cheaper priced ones-seemed to be too good a deal to me tobe ofRO>a high quality. If they no longer carry the premium ferrules I'll haveRO>to start looking for another source. Fortunately, I bought a lot ofRO>ferrules of various sizes the last time I bought any. I just used a setRO>to make a 7 foot fiberglass spinning rod (2-piece so it will fit in herRO>car) for my wife for surf fishing. I saw no problems with them, theyfitRO>well and seemed of high quality. But I know I paid more like $6.00forRO>that set and eneded up waiting so long I had just about written offtheRO>order when it finally showed up. Just looked through Cabela's TackleRO>craft catalog I got yesterday. Couldn't find a ferrule in it anywhere.RO>Seems to be getting harder and harder to find these things. - Mark. I also noticed that the very smallest size (10/11) is no longer listedin the new Jann's catalogs. Different brand again? Angler's has an okay brand of quality NPB ferrules and Clemens has NPBferrules listed, but I haven't ordered ferrules from Clemens yet. Bothare a little more than Netcraft's price (~$1.00). Both also sell NS ferrules. I've got some real nice ones from somewhere, the ends are ground down these lately. Don Burns PS - Does anyone have any unused Perfection tungsten steel snakesguides? I've got some in sizes #1 and #2 - I'm looking for some smallerones. from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Thu May 22 18:23:22 1997 Subject: Re: Cheap ferrules I have been reading the postings on cheap ferrules and I'd like to makea couple of comments. NS ferrules have been used on good rods frombefore the turn of the century. There is a very good reason for this; NS is the best material. The metallurgical characteristics of NSferrules are quite different from the chrome plating on cheap platedferrules. Chrome plating just does not make a ferrule that will slideeasily, wear uniformly and last. Most plated brass ferrules show suchproblems as cracking, irregular wear on the male slike, deforming, and(if you really want the truth) uigliness. Cheap nickle silver ferrules, and there have been a lot made, usually donot have a moisture protecion cap, are of much thinner guage metal (andthus are subject to bending denting and other deformations) ard have noreal style. A good nickle silver ferrule will arrivee in your hands with the maleoversize for the female part. That is you cannot put them togetheruntil they have been mounted and dressed. I might add a word of caution, the difference between a good fit and no fit at all is measured in afraction of a thousandth of an inch. A good ferrule will be serrated ,but even then the serrated ends usually require some dressing. Ferrulesmust be made so that the connection between the cane and the metalflexes. I failed to do that on my first rod, and it waas not longuntil I cast the tip clear to the end of the line. Ever wonder why somany older rods break at the edge of the ferrule. You can do your ownserrating, but it is difficult to do the knd of work that you get on agood ferrule. Take it from me, the ferrule is rightfully the mostexpensive part of the rod. You cannot REPEAT CANNOT build a good rodwith cheap nickle plated brass ferrules. from rec@flyfishers.com Thu May 22 18:29:47 1997 mail2.nai.net (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id TAA25181 for Subject: Re: Rod Restoration Brian Ciesielczyk wrote: From: Brian Ciesielczyk Subject: English style snake guides for Chubb rod The sizes and numbers I would need are as follows:1-4/02-3/02-2/01-1/0Do you have these sizes or anything close and do you have acatalog that I could purchase from? Thank'sBrianDear Brian, I just went through our inventory to see if I could help you out andhere is what I have in "English" snake guides. I believe that you areusing the Perfection system when indicating the sizes you require. Theenglish guides we have are referred to as # H619HB (black) and H619HC(chrome). The sizes run from 1 (smallest) to 5 (largest). The crosssection is different from the perfection type in that the shape is moreoval than round. In black we have sizes 2-5 and in chrome we have1,2,3,5. I may be able to locate the 2 missing sizes but at firstglance these drawers were empty. In relation to perfection, size 2 isequivalent to 1/0 and size 1 to 2/0 which is very small.Perhaps youcould mic the ID and give me dimensions to work with. Also, pleaseindicate the color. If you will forward your address, we will send youa product list which includes pricing. Regards, Alan from jfoster@gte.net Thu May 22 18:36:03 1997 Subject: [Fwd: TBBBQ Invite] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------26FF10B52DD4 Update on Grayrock from Steve --------------26FF10B52DD4 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release "2" ID# 0-32582L10S150000)with ESMTP id AAA11664 for ;Thu, 22 May 1997 03:57:26 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release "2" ID# 0-32582L10S150000)with ESMTP id AAA12412 for ;Thu, 22 May 1997 03:57:25 -0500 onramp.freeway.net (8.8.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id EAA10342; Thu, 22 May Subject: TBBBQ Invite YOU ARE INVITED TO THE TROUT BUM BAR-B-Q '97! Join the bums at the third annual all-you-can-eat pig roast barbecue &sporting flies competition 5:00 Saturday Evening, June 21 along the banksofthe AuSable River at The Fly Factory. WHAT IS TBBBQ AND WHAT IS IT ALL ABOUT?The "Trout Bum Bar-B-Q" [known online in the Compuserve fly-fishingforumand elsewhere by its acronym: TBBBQ] is a by-invitation-only,"not-for-profit" barbecue for trout bums and of trout bums [trout bumsshould be subject to a little good natured roasting] and associatedunplanned adventures. TBBBQ draws a diverse group of fly-fishing folkfromall around N. America [plus occasional guests from the U.K. and/or Europe]to make new friends, renew old acquaintances, go fishin', unwind and raiseafew dollars in support of our fisheries resources. During TBBBQ weekend, a cane rod builders gathering - Rodmakers atGrayrock- will be held on the grounds and in the WorkShopp/Clubhouse atTheFly Factory. This is the third cane builders get-together held inconjunction with TBBBQ, hosted this year by RODMAKERS, a cane rodbuildersinternet listserve [information exchange] coordinated by Mike Biondo of St.Louis, MO. For information about the RODMAKERS gathering, contact WayneCattanach [616] 675-5894 / e-mail WayneCatt@aol.com.Some Trout Bums arrive a week or more in advance of Saturdaynight's actualBBQ; there is a lot of "free-style" fishing and trout bum camaraderiethroughout the week leading up to Saturday evening's pig roast andsportingflies competition. Detailed planning and organization are NOT emphasized.A number of TBBBQ friends and veterans pitch in to support the TBBBQeffortand help make it all work. The first two TBBBQ's were not break-even events. At the urging of anumber of TBBBQ attendees [to prevent the guys putting on the event fromreceiving a three-peat financial ass whuppin'], this year the entrycontribution has been increased to assure some $$$ for our fishingresources. As always, no individual or business reaps financial reward from theTBBBQ.TBBBQ '97 profits will be divided between the George Griffith Foundationproject to assess the impact caused to the upper AuSable by storm waterdischarges and, the Michigan Hydro Relicensing coalition which representsfly-fishing interests in the FERC dam relicensing process. The MHRC iscoordinated by the FFF Great Lakes Council President, Jim Schramm. YOUR TBBBQ CO-HOSTS ARE:The Fly Factory - Steve & Cecilia Southard and Family- and -Spike's Keg O'Nails - Victor & Kathy Edwards STEVE SOUTHARD OFFERS A WORD OF EXPLANATION ABOUT THE ORIGIN OF THE TROUT BUM BAR-B-QThe Fly Factory planned to host a cane rod builders gathering thethirdweek of June, 1995. My friend Victor Edwards, who became active on theCompuserve online fly-fishing forum while serving his 'farewell tour' forUncle Sam in Germany, invited some of his Compuserve fly- fishing friendstoGrayling for a visit in the spring of 1995, upon his return from Germany.Coincidentally, this was the same weekend as the cane rod gathering.While we were at the 1995 Central Michigan Fly Show Victorrecognized theopportunity, suggesting we get the two groups together during thatupcomingJune weekend for burgers; the diverse group would make for an interestingevening. Adding a few friends to the list, the burger cookout for a fewdozen became a pig roast under a tent for 100+. As Victor & I drove 3hours from Swartz Creek to Grayling that February, straining our creativethinkingmuscles, the name "Trout Bum Bar-B-Q" hit me [I'm big on alliteration andbad puns] and TBBBQ was born." TBBBQ SCHEDULE: (ALL EVENTS OCCUR IN/NEAR GRAYLING, MICHIGAN, USA)This years schedule will be less structured and will require moreselfreliance. We will however continue to turn you face down when warrantedgggGG]: http://www.troutbums.com "SUPPORT INFORMATION" * AREA RIVER ACCESS MAPS:Books that provide detailed maps and descriptions of access points in thelocal area plus a really good hatch chart are available through Steve'sshop. * LODGING:Lodging information can be obtained from:Grayling Area Visitors CouncilPO Box 217Grayling, MI 497381-800-937-8837FAX: (517) 348-7315http://www.grayling-mi.come-mail: visitor@grayling-mi.com * GRAYLING AREA INFORMATION:Grayling Regional Chamber of CommercePO Box 406Grayling, MI 49738(517) 348-2921FAX: (517) 348- 7315 * STATE WIDE MICHIGAN INFORMATIONMichigan Travel BureauPO Box 30226Lansing, MI 48909http://www.travel-michigan.state.mi.us --------------26FF10B52DD4-- from jfoster@gte.net Thu May 22 18:56:30 1997 Subject: web Chris found another bookstore (Amazon)..I don't know where he comes upwith this stuff.. It's posted under the bookstore on the web page Jerry from bciesiel@goisd.k12.mi.us Thu May 22 22:40:34 1997 SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.1.2); Thu, 22 May 1997 23:42:29 -0400 Subject: English Snake Guides ALAN- The English guides I need replaced are black and thesizes would probably be 2 and 3. I also just found your address in Michael Sinclair's book on bamboo rod restoration and willforward my address for a catalog. In the meantime I will micthe guides for size. Thanks,Brian from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Fri May 23 03:20:37 1997 env- from (angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) KAA22052; Fri, 23 May 1997 10:20:29 +0200 10:20:28 +0200 "Discount on N/S ferrules" (May 22, 1:55pm) Subject: Re: Discount on N/S ferrules Hello Robert. Are these "Super Swiss" ferrules realy Swiss?? Are these realy mede inSwitzerland?? On May 22, 1:55pm, Robert Milardo wrote:Subject: Discount on N/S ferrulesI am about purchase some "Super Swiss" ferrules fromClassic Sporting Enterprises. -- ___________________________________________________________________________ _________* (______________________Angel Contreras \ email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software Coordinator\ vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2European I/S \ tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 Cortaillodo> fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland/| ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~/\~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~~~~~~~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~((()))~~*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Fri May 23 08:10:36 1997 06:09:49 -0700 Subject: Re: Best of The Planing Form How do I order a copy? Thanks. --Rich------------------------------ An excellent book, full of articles form past issues of TPF. I'mmeandering through mine and learning a lot. I only wish it was available in hardback, Thomas. ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 09:00:24-0700 SVR4) PDT Subject: Best of The Planing Form from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri May 23 14:14:48 1997 Subject: Test Is the list down? Don B. PS - Looking for old-style Perfection tungsten steel snake guides. Gotany? from rcurry@jlc.net Fri May 23 16:23:35 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA28474 for Subject: Looking for Halstead/Payne ferrules Has anyone a source for Halstead and/or Payne style ferrules? Thanks,Reedrcurry@jlc.net from rcurry@jlc.net Fri May 23 16:33:00 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id RAA28623 for Subject: Burnishing Cane I'm wondering what others use to burnish their cane before winding theguides? I was taught to use my lapping file, it works very well, betterthan the scraper burnisher I used to use on wood. However, I waswondering if anyone was using any other materials, and what resultsthey get. I was thinking of buying some lignum vitae and carving it indifferent curves for use as burnishers. Is anyone using hardwoods?Best regards,Reed from GLohkamp@aol.com Fri May 23 21:11:35 1997 Subject: Re: Burnishing Cane Reed l use the shavings from the bamboo to polish the blank before putting ontheguides . Works for me . Gary from wfmack@evansville.net Fri May 23 21:28:08 1997 world.evansville.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Fri, Subject: Re: Concerning Grips Robert Milardo wrote:Any suggestions why my pointer finger always seems togo numb after a few hours of casting. Most of my rodsare full wells grips. It doesn't seem to matter if I'musing a 7.5' trout rod or a 14' spey rod. Sure is abother. I hadn't thought I was making the grips toosmall, but maybe?? Anyone have a similar experience? Bob.I wonder if it is related to carpal tunnel? My middle and ring fingerand one other (can't remember if it was index finger or not) becamsenumber 20 some years ago when I was hand milking a small dairy herd. Comes back sometimes when casting. Putting hand and wirst in thestream regularly. Good luck. Bill Mack from JHecht9234@aol.com Fri May 23 23:03:30 1997 Subject: Re: Burnishing Cane What does it mean to "burnish the cane?" How do you do it and what is thepurpose? I take it this is different from burnishing the wraps to get themcloser together. Thanks in advance. from rcurry@jlc.net Sat May 24 15:07:48 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA14997 for Subject: Re: Burnishing Cane JHecht9234@aol.com wrote: What does it mean to "burnish the cane?" How do you do it and what isthepurpose? I take it this is different from burnishing the wraps to getthemcloser together. Thanks in advance.J,Burnishing is a method of wood finishing which involves rubbing thewood with some force to bring a polish to the wood. Sometimes only a waxwood be applied after this treatment. Woodturners often use a rag filledwith shavings on a piece while it is turning to give it a naturalpolish.With cane, some makers would burnish the cane after straightening,andbefore putting on the guides. The gloss that develops is a result, Isuppose, of crushing the top .00001" of cells into a perfectly uniformlayer. Sounds brutal but gives a better undercoat for a finish thanscraping or sanding alone, IMHO. Reed from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 24 22:10:35 1997 Subject: Re: Dust Free Drying Chamber Darryl,I'm in the process of mounting and using a 6" diam. clear industrial pipewith a drain valve so I can drain out the varnish slowly and leave the rodsections in the pipe to dry. I will use a cloth on top of the pipe to keepthe dust from entering the pipe. Do you see any problems in this method?Any Thanks, Hank. from SalarFly@aol.com Sun May 25 00:56:08 1997 Subject: Re: Dust Free Drying Chamber In a message dated 97-05-24 23:12:14 EDT, you write: I'm in the process of mounting and using a 6" diam. clear industrialpipewith a drain valve so I can drain out the varnish slowly and leave therodsections in the pipe to dry. I will use a cloth on top of the pipe to keepthe dust from entering the pipe. Do you see any problems in thismethod?Any One problem I can see is a 6" in diameter pipe is going totake a lot of varnish to fill... Darryl from cbogart@shentel.net Sun May 25 08:13:03 1997 JAA11864 for ; Sun, 25 May 1997 09:17:50-0400 Subject: Re: Dust Free Drying Chamber HankConcept will work - however a 6" dia pipe of 4' - 5' lengthwill take one heck of a lot of varnish! When this concept of draining the varnish was first banteredabout - I suggest instead of having a valve - you may want anotherlarger container that is connected via tube that you can clamp andyou can adjust the level by raising or lowering that container sincea liquid will be at equal level in both. Ideally that container wouldbe a colapsable bladder type that would not let air in - give it somethought you may come up with something that works. Are you out west yet or still in the area? Darryl,I'm in the process of mounting and using a 6" diam. clear industrial pipewith a drain valve so I can drain out the varnish slowly and leave the rodsections in the pipe to dry. I will use a cloth on top of the pipe to keepthe dust from entering the pipe. Do you see any problems in this method?Any Thanks, Hank. Regards Chris from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun May 25 09:00:37 1997 Subject: Re: RESPECT with A TOUCH OF FEAR To all,I have to go with Chris Bogart as far as cane vs. graphite is concerned.I probably would go to graphite above 8 1/2' for weight considerations-Ibroke a tip with a yuk bug on my 8 footer back handing from a boat on theYellowstone after fishing it all day-I now throw heavy bugs with thesynthetics-breaking a graphite is less traumatic. Because of family business I won't make Grayrock this year and as I'mgoing to be away from the rod shop 'til Labor Day I am unsubscribing 'tilthen. I want to thank all of you for your generous help and friendlycomments(yes, you too, Terry A.). Have a good summer and if any of you are in SilverGate, Montana look me up.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun May 25 09:14:25 1997 Subject: Re: Dust Free Drying Chamber Chris,Headed out to Pa. today, then Montana the 23 of June-have a greatsummer-hope it rains soon.Hank. from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Sun May 25 09:45:12 1997 07:44:38 -0700 Subject: Payne guide spacing Subject: Time: 10:34 AMOFFICE MEMO Payne guide spacing Date: 5/25/97 Does anyone have the guide spacing for an 8'0" Payne, either 2 or 3 piece? Thanks. --Rich from wfenior@cris.com Sun May 25 15:26:14 1997 [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Subject: Introduction Hi Everyone, I've recently joined the listserv after reading through several monthsof archives. I'm new to bamboo and am considering doing some "real"rod-building after building several other graphite and fiberglass rods. I've recently undertaken the job of refinishing/remaking a rod that hassat in the closet for a dozen years. Some people that have looked at itthink that it was a Montague. The only inscription on the nine-foot rodis "Belmour." It's not a very good casting instrument, and I've gotten the bright ideaof making a 6-foot two piece rod out of it. So far I've removed theguides, stripped the finish, tried straightening the tip, delaminatedthe tip (too much heat), relaminated the tip, and aam in the process oftrying to get the more crooked than when I started tip straight again. I've purchased a nice cork reel seat with nickel sliding bands, and I'llre-use the original agate stripping guide. If I ever finish the job Iplan on using the rod for midges on the AuSable and PM rivers inMichigan. I'm considering purchasing some of the Partridge blanks from theCabela's catalog. For the price they sound like pretty good imprenatedblanks. I don't think that I'm ready for a start to finish from rawculms. (btw, if anyone in the group sells ferulled blanks drop me anemail... I think I want a 7-foot four weight). Well, enough of an introduction. I hope that it was appropriate. Regards, Wayne FeniorMidland, MI from Canerods@aol.com Sun May 25 21:15:00 1997 Subject: Re: Introduction In a message dated 97-05-25 16:29:35 EDT, you write: Subj: IntroductionDate: 97-05-25 16:29:35 EDTFrom: wfenior@cris.com (Wayne, Carol and Isaiah)Sender: owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Hi Everyone, I've recently joined the listserv after reading through several monthsof archives. I'm new to bamboo and am considering doing some "real"rod-building after building several other graphite and fiberglass rods. I've recently undertaken the job of refinishing/remaking a rod that hassat in the closet for a dozen years. Some people that have looked at itthink that it was a Montague. The only inscription on the nine-foot rodis "Belmour." It's not a very good casting instrument, and I've gotten the bright ideaof making a 6-foot two piece rod out of it. So far I've removed theguides, stripped the finish, tried straightening the tip, delaminatedthe tip (too much heat), relaminated the tip, and aam in the process oftrying to get the more crooked than when I started tip straight again. I've purchased a nice cork reel seat with nickel sliding bands, and I'llre-use the original agate stripping guide. If I ever finish the job Iplan on using the rod for midges on the AuSable and PM rivers inMichigan. I'm considering purchasing some of the Partridge blanks from theCabela's catalog. For the price they sound like pretty good imprenatedblanks. I don't think that I'm ready for a start to finish from rawculms. (btw, if anyone in the group sells ferulled blanks drop me anemail... I think I want a 7-foot four weight). Well, enough of an introduction. I hope that it was appropriate. Regards, Wayne FeniorMidland, MI Wayne, I looked for the "Belmour" name in my Montague literature - couldn't find areference to it. Might be a Montague built trade rod. If the rod hasNi-plated Brass ferrules - it's a production rod and making a shorter rodoutof it would be fine. No lost value. If the female ferrules are bottle shaped(neck down) then its most likely a Montague rod. Check for cracks in theferrules - you might want to replace them with new ferrules beforereworkingthe rod. LAter, Don Burns from Bamboo4me@aol.com Mon May 26 04:28:13 1997 Subject: Introduction and identification help Hi all. I'm new here, so I wanted to introduce myself, and then ask forhelpin identifying a rod I am going to restore. My name is Robert Carl. I have been flyfishing off and on (as time and workhas allowed) for about 26 years. I spent 13 years in the Navy and wasluckyenough to spend some time on many of the nation's best waters. I currentlyreside and work in the Silicon Valley, Ca. My bamboo experience leavesmuchto be desired. I have restored one Montague Highland, and I own Slipswitchwhich is not in need of restoration. I plan to begin with restoration andeventually move into building my own from scratch. I have a third rodwhichwill be my next restoration project, and I am attempting to identify itpurely for historical purposes because I'm sure it's just a mass productionrod. I know it's not worth much; that's not why I'm trying to identify it. Ijust makes the restoration process more meaningful if I know a little ofitshistory. I know it's very difficult without seeing it, but some of the labelis left, which I think can help. The readable letters, however don't seem tomatch anything I've read about or seen for sale (granted, I have limitedexperience). Information about the rod:8' 3pc. Dark cane. Uplocking metal reel seat which can be reversed(ferruled).Half wells grip (not reversed). Snake guides and tip-top with very heavymetal stripper. Looks like the tip may have been crimped slightly to holditon ( from the factory this way or just get munched?)Yellow with black variagated guide wraps which I believe are original.Periodically down the rod are small red wraps.Ferrules are similar to my Montagues, except that they have two ~1/8"widecheckered lines near the base of the ferrule on each side.There is very little of the sticker left. It was larger than on Montagues,red with gold letters. The shape was an arched banner across the top withthecompany name. Looks like about 5 letters, maybe six. Only identifiableletters left are the last letter ( an 'L'), and the third from the lastletter ( an 'A'). It looks like there may have been a fish below the banner,and then a straight gold strip with black letters below it it, which Ibelieve carried the model name (the letters are unreadable, however). If you think you might be able to help, or need more info, let me know.Either way, thanks for reading and I want to thank everybody for sharingyourknowledge through this mailing list. And if you are new to computers andtheInternet, and have any questions, feel free to e-mail me with them. I knowalot more about computers, at this point, than bamboo. Still winds and plentiful hatches,Rob from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Mon May 26 15:32:31 1997 13:31:57 -0700 Subject: Glues for ferrules Subject: Time: 4:11 PMOFFICE MEMO Glues for ferrules Date: 5/26/97 Does anyone know how to obtain a glue made by Dow Corning called "urethane bond"? I have found this to be great stuff for attaching ferrulesbecause it sets up with slight expansion and stays flexible. BTW, do the new polyurethaneglues have these characteristics and could theybe used for attaching ferrules? --Rich from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Mon May 26 15:32:33 1997 13:31:59 -0700 Subject: Color preserver and dipping Subject: Time: 4:10 PMOFFICE MEMO Color preserver and dipping Date: 5/26/97 I have experienced some problems with color preserver not completely protecting wraps when varnishing in thedip tube. I have been using Flexcoat color preserver,which appears to be a white glue-based formulation instead of the traditional lacquer. I apply 3 coats,after which I add a coat of varnish. Even with this,I don't seem to be able to fully proctect the wraps.I use McCloskey spar varnish thinned by about 10% withgum spirits of turpentine. Any suggestions? --Rich from mrj@seanet.com Mon May 26 16:02:50 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14561 for Subject: Re: Glues for ferrules Rich Margiotta wrote: Subject: Time: 4:11 PMOFFICE MEMO Glues for ferrules Date: 5/26/97 Does anyone know how to obtain a glue made byDow Corning called "urethane bond"? I have foundthis to be great stuff for attaching ferrulesbecause it sets up with slight expansion andstays flexible. BTW, do the new polyurethaneglues have these characteristics and could theybe used for attaching ferrules? --Rich I found a tube at a local hardware store. Did you try a big hardwaresuperstore? It appears to have a short shelf life. Where I bought it, Igot the only good tube left out of maybe 8 tubes on the shelf. I thinkalso Ace Hardware had it also here in Seattle.-- Martin Jensen from rec@flyfishers.com Mon May 26 17:18:48 1997 mail2.nai.net (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id SAA24062 for Subject: Re: English Snake Guides Brian Ciesielczyk wrote: ALAN- The English guides I need replaced are black and thesizes would probably be 2 and 3. I also just found your address inMichael Sinclair's book on bamboo rod restoration and willforward my address for a catalog. In the meantime I will micthe guides for size.Thanks,BrianBrian, The address in Sinclair's book does not reflect our recent move to CTOur current address is 72 Shaker Rd., Enfield, CT tel: 860-749-3476, fax: 860- 749-3478, email: rec@flyfishers.com. I just checked for aresponse later than this and I could not find one re required sizing. I'll wait to hear from you. Alan from lblan@oeonline.com Mon May 26 18:17:46 1997 (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0wW8vx-0003GJC; Mon, 26 May 97 19:12 EDT 19:15:23 -0400 Subject: RE: Glues for ferrules =_NextPart_000_01BC6A09.28C9E060" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6A09.28C9E060 I have found this in hardware stores. Clemens carries (or used to carry it)albeit at a greatly increased cost. -----Original Message----- Subject: Glues for ferrules Subject: Time: 4:11 PMOFFICE MEMO Glues for ferrules Date: 5/26/97 Does anyone know how to obtain a glue made by Dow Corning called "urethane bond"? I have found this to be great stuff for attaching ferrulesbecause it sets up with slight expansion and stays flexible. BTW, do the new polyurethaneglues have these characteristics and could theybe used for attaching ferrules? --Rich ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6A09.28C9E060 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6A09.28C9E060-- from lblan@oeonline.com Mon May 26 18:17:49 1997 (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0wW8w2-0003iiC; Mon, 26 May 97 19:12 EDT 19:15:27 -0400 Subject: RE: Color preserver and dipping =_NextPart_000_01BC6A09.2B462B00" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6A09.2B462B00 Try thinning the first and possibly the second coat. This will allowcomplete penetration of the thread. -----Original Message----- Subject: Color preserver and dipping Subject: Time: 4:10 PMOFFICE MEMO Color preserver and dipping Date: 5/26/97 I have experienced some problems with color preserver not completely protecting wraps when varnishing in thedip tube. I have been using Flexcoat color preserver,which appears to be a white glue-based formulation instead of the traditional lacquer. I apply 3 coats,after which I add a coat of varnish. Even with this,I don't seem to be able to fully proctect the wraps.I use McCloskey spar varnish thinned by about 10% withgum spirits of turpentine. Any suggestions? --Rich ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6A09.2B462B00 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BC6A09.2B462B00-- from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon May 26 20:40:04 1997 0000 Subject: rod building links i'm working on a new homepage that's all about rod-building androd- builders....if anyone has a homepage or any good cane links which theywould like to be included, please either send the address to me through thelist or privately....i already have all the makers listed in "Rodmakers"bookmarked, if anyone listed there would have a problem with me puttingup alink from my page, please say something...THANKS!!!! Matt Leidermanmleider@postoffice.ptd.nethttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from russett@bcn.net Mon May 26 21:16:50 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA13011 for Subject: New web site?? Someone just sent a posting that they had a new site. Lost it whencomputer went down. Been having troubles. Would you please send me the site address as I would like to beincluded. thanks Larry from bjcoch@arkansas.net Tue May 27 09:15:30 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id OAA03877 for; Tue, 27 May 1997 14:15:26 GMT Subject: Re: Concerning Grips Any suggestions why my pointer finger always seems togo numb after a few hours of casting. Most of my rodsare full wells grips. It doesn't seem to matter if I'musing a 7.5' trout rod or a 14' spey rod. Sure is abother. I hadn't thought I was making the grips toosmall, but maybe?? Anyone have a similar experience? I would suspect that you are stressing the base joint of your indexfinger by having it rest on the up slope of the wells. I would recomendthat you stop using the finger pointing method and go to the thumbmethod. You will have to get used to the change but you will not havethe problem of numbess. If you read Lefty's book on fly casting you willfind that the finger pointing method is not recomended ;because youloose some timing and power with it. Bryant C. from delaney@acc.mcneese.edu Tue May 27 09:21:54 1997 JAA13551; Tue, 27 May 1997 09:21:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Cheap ferrules I knew all that. I think you missed that I was restoring a rod (cheap though it was) and had to replace one nickled plated brass ferrule. The other ferrule was fine. I thought it would be really strange to have a nickel silver ferrule when all the other hardware on the rod was nickel plated brass! Mark in LA On Thu, 22 May 1997, Ralph Moon wrote: I have been reading the postings on cheap ferrules and I'd like to makea couple of comments. NS ferrules have been used on good rods frombefore the turn of the century. There is a very good reason for this; NS is the best material. The metallurgical characteristics of NSferrules are quite different from the chrome plating on cheap platedferrules. Chrome plating just does not make a ferrule that will slideeasily, wear uniformly and last. Most plated brass ferrules show suchproblems as cracking, irregular wear on the male slike, deforming, and(if you really want the truth) uigliness. Cheap nickle silver ferrules, and there have been a lot made, usually donot have a moisture protecion cap, are of much thinner guage metal (andthus are subject to bending denting and other deformations) ard have noreal style. A good nickle silver ferrule will arrivee in your hands with the maleoversize for the female part. That is you cannot put them togetheruntil they have been mounted and dressed. I might add a word of caution, the difference between a good fit and no fit at all is measured in afraction of a thousandth of an inch. A good ferrule will be serrated ,but even then the serrated ends usually require some dressing. Ferrulesmust be made so that the connection between the cane and the metalflexes. I failed to do that on my first rod, and it waas not longuntil I cast the tip clear to the end of the line. Ever wonder why somany older rods break at the edge of the ferrule. You can do your ownserrating, but it is difficult to do the knd of work that you get on agood ferrule. Take it from me, the ferrule is rightfully the mostexpensive part of the rod. You cannot REPEAT CANNOT build a good rodwith cheap nickle plated brass ferrules. from d-deloach1@ti.com Tue May 27 09:25:31 1997 with ESMTP id JAA26347 for ; Tue, 27 May dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id VHOYAQBE; Tue,27 May 1997 09:24:42 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: node lifting All, Heat treated my first set of strips yesterday and I have a problem. Many ofmynodes have popped back out. Now what? Re-press them before final planingorjust swallow hard and file them down (this rod ain't gonna be that goodanyway)? I guess what caused this is they weren't hot enough when I pressed themthefirst time? Don D. from devino@inlink.com Tue May 27 12:57:40 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id MAA13782 for Subject: Thread Question I have a graphite spinning rod that has spent the last 12 months underfifteen feet of lake water. I lost it last on Memorial Day 1996 and snaggedand retrieved it this past weekend. The reel looks pretty much trashed butthe rod looks fine. Should I worry about the thread on the guide wraps?It's factory wrap and finish and appears intact. Thanks. -=Mark=- _/_/_/_/_/ _/ _/ Mark Devino _/ _/ _/ TROUT UNLIMITED_/ _/ _/ Meramec Basin chapter - St. Louis_/ _/_/_/_/ www.troutunlimited.org from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Tue May 27 14:57:07 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA223 0400 Subject: RE: Glues for ferrules Date: Mon, 26 May 1997 19:02:05 -0400 From: Larry Blan Subject: RE: Glues for ferrules I have found this in hardware stores. Clemens carries (or used to carryit) albeit at a greatly increased cost. -----Original Message-----From: Rich Margiotta [SMTP:RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com]Sent: Monday, May 26, 1997 8:20 PM Subject: Glues for ferrules Subject: Time: 4:11 PMOFFICE MEMO Glues for ferrules Date: 5/26/97 Does anyone know how to obtain a glue made by Dow Corning called "urethane bond"? I have found this to be great stuff for attaching ferrulesbecause it sets up with slight expansion and stays flexible. BTW, do the new polyurethaneglues have these characteristics and could theybe used for attaching ferrules? --Rich Try a glue called Probond by Elmers. Its new & its the same stuff. Get it at Builder's Square. from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue May 27 15:08:29 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Glueing, varnishing My first two rods move forward. The two butts have now been through the Hayashida Dip Tube twice, using undiluted Behr Spar Varnish. The 4'6'' tube, 1 1/2" diameter, takes just over half a US gallon - 70 fl.ozs. or so. Covered with a cloth for 24 hours it yields perfect, run- and dust-free surfaces of a very high gloss. Ambient temperature is 80F. I think 3 coats will be adequate. I'm going to attach guides, etc. after dipping. Thanks, Darryl! No responses to my nomenclature request so I settled for: "Maker" - on one hex, and- on the adjacent hex. i.e. T Pindelski, Maker7' 0" 4wt DT The above is inscribed with a Pigma Micron 03 pen, purchased from a local art store for from d-deloach1@ti.com Tue May 27 16:49:14 1997 with ESMTP id QAA15242 for ; Tue, 27 May dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id QEVXBXAM; Tue,27 May 1997 16:48:25 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Resorcinol All, I found Dap Weldwood brand recorcinol in the Wm. Alden catalog-- thisisokay stuff right? Does it have a shelf life? Also, I am going to be using Behr Scandanavian Tung Oil. What is therecommended thinning procedure for this product when used on rods? IknowBehlen pure tung oil recommends 4:1 mineral spirits to tung oil. Thanks,Don D. from d-deloach1@ti.com Tue May 27 17:04:09 1997 with ESMTP id RAA18272 for ; Tue, 27 May dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.3) with SMTP id MKWDACAF; Tue,27 May 1997 17:03:03 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: beginner question Okay guys, maybe I missed something but I'm confused. Why, on aCattanach2-piece 6'6" rod for example, do the 35" and 40" stations appear on boththetip and butt sections? What does this imply as far as the setting of thefinalplaning forms is concerned? I'm no that good at math but I can see that 78inches minus 35 inches is a lot more than half the total rod length (eachsection is 39 inches, but according to the taper chart in Waynes book 78 -35equals 43). What gives? and why does the tip section total up to beshorter? Don D. from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Tue May 27 18:45:35 1997 Subject: Re: Glues for ferrules Rich The last word I had was that Dow Corning had discontinued UrethaneBond. You are right on the money though, it is by far the best ferruleadhesive I have ever seen. Did you know that you can break the bondwith heat, so that the ferrule may be removed. I heard that Dow hadfranchised someone else to produce urethane bond, but I don't know whoor when. Maybe a call to Dow might be in order? I'll try. In themeantime I am rigorously hoarding my two tubes. Ralph Moon from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Tue May 27 18:47:15 1997 Subject: Re: Color preserver and dipping Rich try four or five coats of thinned down lacquer. It works a quartis a millenium supply and it dries very fast so thast five coats goquickly. Ralph from SacMan6@aol.com Tue May 27 22:25:14 1997 Subject: Restoration Hello,Im new to this repeater and would like to ask if anyone nows anythingabout abamboo rod that that I found in Ohio. It has a decal that reads "foothills" .It doesn't look like a fancy rod but the cane is in good shape. A goodpractice restoration.ThanksDan SachsPalo Alto from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed May 28 07:21:05 1997 Subject: Re: Resorcinol Please provide me with more information on what you are using the "pure"tungoil for. Are you using it as a finish instead of the varnish approach? As anote that is what I have been doing and when I posted this with somequestions on the listserv, it met with some odd responses (see Fear with atouch of respect). I just think that the clean, pure look is classic, Iwill admitt that who knows what the future holds, I may end up followingWayne C's advice and dipping but for know tung oil gets some wonderfulreactions especially from some are familiar with seeing "traditional"finishlooks. Doug HallDecatur, GAwdhcjl.com from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed May 28 09:50:16 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 07:49:47 -0700 Subject: oven 4.0.994.63 HELP! HELP! HELP! I just got my mica strip heater and my Robert Shawthermostat for Waynes oven and I have no idea on how to connect thingsup. I tried getting some directions from Wayne but got no response soI'm turning to you guys for help.How do you mount the mica strip to the oven and/or copper tubespacers,there is no mounting holes in the mica strip and I wasn't sure if it wassafe to drill holes in it. There is two threaded posts on one end of themica strip and two connectors on the thermostat. I'm assuming that yourun a hot line into one connector on the thermostat and out from theother connector then in on one side of the mica strip and out the otherconnector and connected to the white wire from the plug. Is this a 110volt or 220 volt heater, there was no indication of that anywhere on thestrip heater, It was just in a box of peanuts.Any and all help will be GREATLY appreciated. Patrick from jlintve1@ic3.ithaca.edu Wed May 28 12:36:32 1997 (1Cust43.Max2.Washington.DC.MS.UU.NET) by ic3.ithaca.edu (PMDF V5.1- 8#17259)with SMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 28 May 1997 13:38:06 EDT Subject: Test just checkingJon LintvetIthaca College "All there is to thinking is seeing somethingnoticeable which makes you see something youwere'nt noticing which makes you see somethingthat isn't even visible."-Norman Maclean from harry37@epix.net Wed May 28 13:25:26 1997 OAA12005 Subject: My education Hello, I was going to send almost the same e-mail as Wayne Fenior until I readWayne's. I'm in much the same situation as Wayne-I have built glass andgraphite for almost 20 years, and I always learn something new wheneverI do a new rod.I recently acquired a Philipson Pacemaker blank that was stripped ofguides and ferrules, but seemed to be structurally ok, with just alittle bit of set in the tips, and a slight wiggle in the other twosections. I'm doing a refurb on it, and am using it as my first caneproject I learned a lot about fitting ferrules (and I guess I probablylost a lot of the power fibers when I was inletting the blank sectionsto fit the ferrules), and a lot of other things that you never see on agraphite or glass blank.I wish I would have found this listserver about two months ago, becauseI've learned a lot about finish details that I wasn't able to get acomplete answer anywhere else I've been. Please keep up theconversations--I'm learning something from all of them. I have two questions for anyone who might have an answer--1. I'm a little limited for space (and have 2 small children who liketo look at or into everything)-- Would anyone be willing to take a rodthat has everything but the varnish completed and dip it? please e-mailme and let me know what you'd charge to do it. 2. I like the idea of bringing an old rod back to use. Can anyoneadvise me of some sources for rods or stripped rods that could berefurbished or restored? Thanks Greg Kuntzharry37@epix.net from rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com Wed May 28 14:14:37 1997 (1.37.109.16/3.1.090690-Hazeltine Corporation) (4.1/SMI-4.1) Subject: Re: My education 2. I like the idea of bringing an old rod back to use. Can anyoneadvise me of some sources for rods or stripped rods that could berefurbished or restored? Thanks Greg Kuntzharry37@epix.net Greg, Get on the catalog mailing lists of the two sources listed below. Theysell used cane rods, including "handyman specials". Centennial Classic Sales --> Tel. (970) 243-8780Web Page at http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/equipcat.htm Heritage Sporting Collectibles --> Tel. (352) 637-5454 Good Luck,Bob Matarazzo from rec@flyfishers.com Wed May 28 16:32:02 1997 mail2.nai.net (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA14829 for Subject: Re: English Snake Guides Brian Ciesielczyk wrote: ALAN- The English guides I need replaced are black and thesizes would probably be 2 and 3. I also just found your address inMichael Sinclair's book on bamboo rod restoration and willforward my address for a catalog. In the meantime I will micthe guides for size.Thanks,BrianBrian, received your fax today and the information you requested isenroute. regards, Alan from SacMan6@aol.com Wed May 28 17:41:53 1997 Subject: Re: My education Greg,You might try Mike Stevens at mstevens@ptdprolog.net. He has a list ofrods Dan SachsPalo Alto from brookside.rod@juno.com Wed May 28 17:50:29 1997 SAAAA08962 (queuemail) Subject: Re: My education Re: Dealers in classic tackle including handyman specials. Below aretwo fine dealers who publish comprehensive lists who may have rods ofinterest to you. 1. Martin J. Keane P.O.Box 288 Ashley Falls Ma. 01222 (413) 229-7988 2. Bob Corsetti 17 Massasoit Road Nashua, N.H. 03063 (603) 886-0411 Regards; Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.commaker of fine handcrafted split bamboo fly rodsBrookside Rod Co.37 Brook Street Naugatuck, Ct. 06770- 3101 On Wed, 28 May 97 15:17:49 EDT rm5552@gumby.engsvc.hazeltine.com (BobMatarazzo X2631) writes: 2. I like the idea of bringing an old rod back to use. Can anyoneadvise me of some sources for rods or stripped rods that could berefurbished or restored? Thanks Greg Kuntzharry37@epix.net Greg, Get on the catalog mailing lists of the two sources listed below. Theysell used cane rods, including "handyman specials". Centennial Classic Sales --> Tel. (970) 243-8780Web Page at http://www.gorp.com/cl_angle/equipcat.htm Heritage Sporting Collectibles --> Tel. (352) 637-5454 Good Luck,Bob Matarazzo from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed May 28 22:18:26 1997 Subject: Re: oven Don't panic, My suggestion on how to mount the mica strip to the "coppertube" actually comes from Kim Fairchild (MI builder) he suggests taking ascrew and placing a washer on it so that when placed into the tubing(slightly each side of the strip, just wider that the strip) the washeroverlaps the mica strip and can being held on without damaging it. Also, Iwas confused with the thermostat when I did my oven, one line (either oneasone side of the strip will always be hot) is simply interrupting the otherline. from the outlet ( the plug) one line goes straight to the mica strip,the other goes to the thermostat attaches and then the other post on thethermostat continues to the remaining connector of the mica. Lastly,100V(it should show that info in fine print on the strip itself.Good Luck Doug HallDecatur, GAwdhcjl@aol.com from cparham@crocker.com Thu May 29 07:09:14 1997 rmc1.crocker.com (8.8.5/8.6.10) with SMTP id IAA00194 for; Thu, 29 May 1997 08:10:21 GMT Subject: Re: oven WDHCJL@aol.com wrote: Don't panic, My suggestion on how to mount the mica strip to the "coppertube" actually comes from Kim Fairchild (MI builder) he suggests takingascrew and placing a washer on it so that when placed into the tubing(slightly each side of the strip, just wider that the strip) the washeroverlaps the mica strip and can being held on without damaging it. Also,Iwas confused with the thermostat when I did my oven, one line (eitherone asone side of the strip will always be hot) is simply interrupting the otherline. from the outlet ( the plug) one line goes straight to the mica strip,the other goes to the thermostat attaches and then the other post on thethermostat continues to the remaining connector of the mica. Lastly,100V(it should show that info in fine print on the strip itself.Good Luck Doug HallDecatur, GAwdhcjl@aol.com People making and using ovens should always ground the case (metal) of the oven frame back to the outlet with the use of a three prong power cord. If your outlets are of the old type and do not have the third (ground) pin the oven should be grounded separately with a connection to something like a copper water pipe (cold not hot). Power cords can be bought at most electrical supply dealers or at Radio Shack. When connecting the thermostat to the power cord, use the side of the power cord that plugs into the SMALL slot of the wall outlet. This is the HOT side of the line. Connect the other side of the thermostat to the heater and then connect the other side of the heater to the side of the power cord which plugs into the LARGE slot of the wall outlet. This is the NEUTRAL side of the line. This configuration switches the hot side of the line and leaves the heater wire neutral when the thermostat is off. If you connect it in reverse the heater wire will be electrically hot when the thermostat is off. The danger of this is that if the heater wire were to contact the case of the oven then it would be electrically hot. Play it safe and ground the case of the oven regardless. from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu May 29 11:31:19 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Bamboo splitters I'm afraid I missed much of the recent thread on bamboo splitters;however, I just received a brochure from Hida Tool & Hardware (800) 443 5512 cataloging these, and note pricing of $33.60 for the 6 strip and $110 for the 12 strip models. These are pie-type splitters with radially protruding handles. My question to the list: Do these work and are they a worthwhile tool to save the agony of manual splitting? TIA ThomasP@nacm.com from santiago@ricochet.net Thu May 29 11:52:16 1997 Subject: Rio Grande mornin' to all, does anyone have a phone number for the catalogue, RIO GRANDE? thanks in advance, leo from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Thu May 29 12:13:18 1997 Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 12:14:22 -0500 Subject: RE: Bamboo splitters 4.0.995.52 I have the 12 segment splitter. It makes short work of getting the first12 pieces. Olaf Borge, Systems Programmer/Basic SystemsCNO/AISSUniversity of Illinois728 West Roosevelt RoadChicago, Illinois 60607-7007Phone: (312)996-5212 INTERNET: oborge@uic.edu ----------From: Thomas Pindelski[SMTP:ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com]Sent: Thursday, May 29, 1997 11:30 AM Subject: Bamboo splitters I'm afraid I missed much of the recent thread on bamboo splitters;however, I just received a brochure from Hida Tool & Hardware (800) 443 5512 cataloging these, and note pricing of $33.60 for the 6 strip and $110 for the 12 strip models. These are pie-type splitters with radially protruding handles. My question to the list: Do these work and are they a worthwhile tool to save the agony of manual splitting? TIA ThomasP@nacm.com from 76250.1771@CompuServe.COM Thu May 29 19:03:20 1997 Subject: Re: Payne guide spacing Richard-The following guide spacing is from a payne 200L (8',3piece,4wt).Measurementsare with the rod assembled. tip top = 0"#1 =5"#2 = 10 1/4"#3 = 15 5/8"#4 = 21 1/8"#5 = 26 5/8"ferrule#6 = 34 3/16" Guide foot touches the ferrule tabs with a single brownwrap covering both.#7 = 40 3/8"#8 = 47 3/4#9 = 56 7/8"ferrule#10 = 66 3/8" Guide foot touches ferrule tabs, same single wrap.#11 = 74 1/2 agate stripper Hope this helps. Are you redoing an old payne or building a new rod? Regards Dennis from harry37@epix.net Fri May 30 01:43:03 1997 CAA00780 Subject: Re: My education Hello,I was going to send almost the same e-mail as Wayne Fenior until I readWayne's. I'm in much the same situation as Wayne-I have built glassandgraphite for almost 20 years, and I always learn something new wheneverI do a new rod.I recently acquired a Philipson Pacemaker blank that was stripped ofguides and ferrules, but seemed to be structurally ok, with just alittle bit of set in the tips, and a slight wiggle in the other twosections. I'm doing a refurb on it, and am using it as my first caneproject I learned a lot about fitting ferrules (and I guess I probablylost a lot of the power fibers when I was inletting the blank sectionsto fit the ferrules), and a lot of other things that you never see on agraphite or glass blank.I wish I would have found this listserver about two months ago, becauseI've learned a lot about finish details that I wasn't able to get acomplete answer anywhere else I've been. Please keep up theconversations--I'm learning something from all of them. I have two questions for anyone who might have an answer--1. I'm a little limited for space (and have 2 small children who liketo look at or into everything)-- Would anyone be willing to take a rodthat has everything but the varnish completed and dip it? please -mailme and let me know what you'd charge to do it. 2. I like the idea of bringing an old rod back to use. Can anyoneadvise me of some sources for rods or stripped rods that could berefurbished or restored? ThanksGreg Kuntzharry37@epix.net from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Fri May 30 08:55:59 1997 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: National Geographic I received June's issue of National Geographic in the mail two daysago and there is a nice introduction and picture by the editor aboutLouis Marden, plus an article by Louis Marden himself. Louis Mardenhas recently written a excellent book on Tonkin bamboo. Last night, my wife asked me if I saw the article in the NG by NickLyons. (IMO one of the best fly fishing authors) I assured her thatshe was wrong and the article was by Louis Marden. (should haveknown better) We got out the magazine and sure enough the last articlein the issue was by Nick Lyons with a picture of him in the back of themagazine standing midstream. -Jerry (the other one)ballard@zen.wes.army.mil p.s.About to complete rod #2. It's based on a bonefish taper posted I had done a pretty decent job on rod #1, but after gluing the buttsection on #2, it is very obvious that I have learned quite a bit moreabout planing cane since then. from SacMan6@aol.com Fri May 30 19:08:02 1997 Subject: Cane Binder Hello,Can any help me get a line on a "Binder"? I'll try and make one if I have tobut I'd rather see if I can get a hold of one first. I would appreciate thehelp.Dan from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Fri May 30 21:29:59 1997 mailfep4-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: e-mail address? Does anyone have an e-mail address for Ron Barch, publisher of thePlaning Form Newsletter? from 76250.1771@CompuServe.COM Fri May 30 22:35:44 1997 Subject: Re: e-mail address? Joe-Try Ron Barch at rbarch@remc.k12.mi.us Dennis from gwbarnes@biddeford.com Sat May 31 06:59:36 1997 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA27308 for Subject: Re: e-mail address? At 10:30 PM 5/30/97 -0500, you wrote:Does anyone have an e-mail address for Ron Barch, publisher of thePlaning Form Newsletter? rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us from JHecht9234@aol.com Sat May 31 12:40:32 1997 Subject: Finishing question A few questions for a first attempt at dipping with spar varnish: 1. I picked up a quart of Benjamin Moore 440 Spar Varnish ("Impervo") formarine and exterior use. Does anyone have any experience with thisand/or doyou think it will be acceptable. 2. Is it likely that it needs to be thinned out of the can. If so, how doyou thin it (in a separate container, in the tube, etc?) 3. I know copper tube is recommended but will PVC be sufficient. Can Ijustpour it back in the varnish can for storage when I'm done? Any other thoughts on how to avoid a disaster would be appreciated. Thanksin advance. from measter@sdcoe.k12.ca.us Sat May 31 21:49:45 1997 intergate.sdcoe.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with SMTP id UAA12929; Sat, 31 Subject: Re: e-mail address? Joe Loverti wrote: Does anyone have an e-mail address for Ron Barch, publisher of thePlaning Form Newsletter?Don't bother he doesn't return mail