from sats@gte.net Sun Jun 1 09:30:31 1997 Subject: Re: Tensioners I made a tensioner with two beer bottle tops in contact with the spool, a spring, washer and wing nut. It worked OK but I threw it out when it rusted and have used the old telephone book ever since. The problem I found with the Telephone book (and a deck of cards, etc.) isthat,I occasionally screw up (not as much as I used to but still from time totime.)I wrap my rods by hand so stopping and backing up is no problem except forthefact that you lose tension. My solution was to build what looks like a big bobbin with a 1/16 hobbypipe fora feed. I leave the tube fairly long and drop the whole affair over theedgedof the work bench ( held in place by a cup holder on a large block of wood.). Istart with the bobbin dangling only a few inches from the floor. If I screwup,half way through a wrap, I can back off a few turns and fix the problem. Mytension is constant. If I feel that I'd like to add tension, I put a bolts around the tube (thereason I leave it long). Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Sun Jun 1 20:06:54 1997 Subject: Re: beginner question I think there are some typo's, be carefull, If i recal, identical tapers arelisted for two rods. JBAt 17:02 27/05/97 -0700, you wrote:Okay guys, maybe I missed something but I'm confused. Why, on aCattanach2-piece 6'6" rod for example, do the 35" and 40" stations appear on boththetip and butt sections? What does this imply as far as the setting of thefinalplaning forms is concerned? I'm no that good at math but I can see that78inches minus 35 inches is a lot more than half the total rod length (eachsection is 39 inches, but according to the taper chart in Waynes book 78 -35equals 43). What gives? and why does the tip section total up to beshorter? Don D. James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from sal@eol.ime.net Sun Jun 1 20:37:13 1997 Subject: Taper I am looking for a taper for a two handed fly rod twelve feet long orso. Anyone have one ? Mike from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Jun 2 07:52:33 1997 Subject: Two Hand Taper Mike - This was posted some time ago by Michael Marklund, who seems tohavesome experience with these tapers. ---- Tom Spey Special 13' # 9-10 ButtDist(mm) - Dia(mm)0 - 14,8055 - 14,70255 - 14,20455 - 13,70655 - 13,20855 - 12,701055 - 12,201300 - 11,50 MiddleDist(mm) - Dia(mm)0 - 11,2560 - 11,00260 - 10,40460 - 10,00660 - 9,40860 - 9,101060 - 8,501305 - 8,25 TopDist(mm) - Dia(mm)0 - 8,25160 - 8,00360 - 7,30560 - 6,60760 - 5,90960 - 5,101160 - 4,301360 - 3,50 The default handle-length is 650mm. Rings could be placed:-13-15-18-20-24- 25-25-28-33-39-59 cm. The problem is to get good, thick-walled bamboo and good ferrules. Please let me know if anyone builds it and tries it. Regards...----------------------------------------------------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm ----------------------- Headers from khube@benmeadows.com Mon Jun 2 09:18:41 1997 Subject: Ferrule Tabs I am fitting a new Bailey Woods' ferrule and two points have come up: 1. The standard slits look like they provide enough movement to eliminatethe need to snip out any material to create tapered tabs. This observationis based on a dry fit with a light-pressure thread wrap on the ferrule. Hasthis been the experience of others? 2. A few days ago, there was some chatter about fitting these ferruleswithcrocus cloth, special files, etc... I have a supply of 500 and 600 wet/drypaper. Do you think that the grit from this paper would imbed in theferrulematerial and eventually lead to it self destructing? Any input always valued. Karl Hube from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Jun 2 10:32:49 1997 Subject: Greyrock '97 It just dawned on me that at this time, two weeks from nowI'll be on the road heading towards Grayling, MI for Greyrock '97!!! I'll be leaving St. Louis, heading northto Chicago, meeting up with fellow listmember Dennis Highamand carpooling the rest of the way to Grayling. With anETA of "Evening:Hatch o'clock" GST(grayrock standard time :-) Last year, I only set aside three days which immeadiatelybecame apparent was NOT enough time to take in all greatfun, fishing, and friendships! So this year I'm planningalmost a week. (Geez, at this rate I might just have tomove up there in 5 years!!!) Another thing that became apparent...last year I broughtup a 2.5 gallon keg of homebrew which all but disappearedthe first night. This year I'm bringing a FIVE gallon keg!!! So, let's start up the attendance/arrival list... Wayne, Matt, and Lyndi Cattanach Friday the 13th (hmmmm!!? ;-)Dennis Higham Tuesday 6/17 Evening:Hatch o'clockMike Biondo Tuesday 6/17 Evening:Hatch o'clock Let me know what day/hatch you'll arriving and I'll get youadded to the list. Everyone is encouraged to come up a fewdays before the official start date of 6/20. Many side tripsto sample the surrounding waters are un-planned. (NON-planningis a well-seated tradition of Grayrock! :-) Hope to see you all in Greyrock... Mike - Rod & Mug at the ready - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mon Jun 2 15:35:06 1997 Subject: dip tubes I've got my dip tube up and running and the finishes are remarkable forthetime invested in each rod. I highly recommend dipping for those who aredissatisfied with their finishes.One question I do have is what others have done to solve the problem ofgelled finish at the top of the tube. I try to lay a piece of plastic foodwrap on top to cover the whole surface area, and then put an air-tight capon,but there are still gooy chunks of gelled varnish at the top. So far thishasn't been a problem because they tend to stick to the sides of the tube,butI'm afraid to pull them out for fear of breaking off and leaving bitssuspendedin the tube. (How) have others dealt with this threat? -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from HARRY@wacbhs.tstc.edu Mon Jun 2 15:52:37 1997 2 Jun 97 15:52:31 CST6CDT CST6CDT Subject: Tonkin Cane Does anyone in Texas have any Tonkin cane for sale? from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Mon Jun 2 15:54:52 1997 Subject: Re: dip tubes M Freed" at Jun 2, 97 04:35:01 pm I've got my dip tube up and running and the finishes are remarkable forthetime invested in each rod. I highly recommend dipping for those who aredissatisfied with their finishes.One question I do have is what others have done to solve the problemofgelled finish at the top of the tube. I try to lay a piece of plastic foodwrap on top to cover the whole surface area, and then put an air-tightcap on,but there are still gooy chunks of gelled varnish at the top. So far thishasn't been a problem because they tend to stick to the sides of the tube,butI'm afraid to pull them out for fear of breaking off and leaving bitssuspendedin the tube. (How) have others dealt with this threat? -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mark, I have run into the same problems. I have a valve at the bottom of my dip tube which now needs to be removed and cleaned. I did purchase a strainer recently and plan on straining the varnish when moving it between tube and storage container. Haven't tried it yet, but it may work. Please let the list know if you find anything out. Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jun 2 16:23:30 1997 Subject: Well Somebody Had To Well I'm starting to get some of the to-dos done - the last adventurewasswitching the ol' comput over to '95' - so I've been off line for a bit and Iam reading the posts of the last couple of weeks.In the mean time, I was kidnapped by trout bum terrorists this pastweekend and forced to float the upper Manistee. With the cool spring thatwe've had the hatches are off to a slow start but with the sunlight andwarmer weather we had a great fish.A progress report of the gathering would be as follows:a) there are still fish to be caughtb) the aprons are on orderc)the bamboo should be shipped this fridayd)ferrules and realseats are in transit BUT - a little planning on an agenda wouldn't hurt - Your help would begreatly appreciated. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jun 2 16:28:52 1997 Subject: beginner answer The layout in the book is correct - or at least the way that I set theforms and use them - follow - the finished rod is 6' 6" or 78" so in a 2piece version the start point for the butt section is at 39". To best getthis point set the forms at 35" and at 40" then make a start mark at whatwould be 39" - then set the strips so that the tip of the butt strips startat this mark. Well Hey it makes sense when you live in Casnovia. Wayne from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 2 18:12:26 1997 TAA08572 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:18:56 -0400 Subject: Re: Ferrule Tabs Karl Question 1 - It is a matter of personal preferance and experience - Wayne's suggestion of tapered tabs have merit - especially if you thinnerthreads - it helps to disapate energy - notice on older rods there isusuallya thread break at this point - if you go with A or C thread it may not be aprob Question 2 - Too coarse - must go to 1000 or better, 0000 steelwool,or a 6 or 8 cut pillar file. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 2 18:22:01 1997 TAA08702 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:28:31 -0400 Subject: Re: dip tubes Mark Despite your best efforts - sounds like an air seal problem. I havea copper tube with a screw top (plastic) and it seals good - After a fewrodsI top off the varnish from small jars I have stored the excess from fillingthetube. Just for info purposes - I replace my varnish each fall prior to thewinter production. I have found that it is a small price to pay to insure that I have good clean varnish in the tube - it is a false ecconomy to tryto streach the life of varnish to 2+ years - replacement is under $20 andwhen I do 8 - 10 rods a season it works out to a couple of bucks a rod. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 2 18:25:52 1997 TAA08740 for ; Mon, 2 Jun 1997 19:32:23 -0400 Subject: Re: Well Somebody Had To Wayne You forgot the most important part - I talked to the "Lovebug" on Sunday - he says most of the hatches are about 2 weeks behind sked - brown drakes will prob be in but the Hex hatch will be late -we will be lucky to see it (damn). Other than that - Mike is bringingthe beer - what else do we need to plan? Regards Chris from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jun 2 18:48:57 1997 Tue, 3 Jun 1997 07:48:40 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: dip tubes You could try removing the tube holding the varnish from the dip tube housing and slowly turn the tube with the varnish upside down. This wayany skin that forms is on the bottom. Before dipping any new rods again, make sure you leave the inner tube in it's upright possition for a few days so air bubbles etc selly either up or down. Tony On Mon, 2 Jun 1997, Mark M Freed wrote: I've got my dip tube up and running and the finishes are remarkable forthetime invested in each rod. I highly recommend dipping for those who aredissatisfied with their finishes.One question I do have is what others have done to solve the problemofgelled finish at the top of the tube. I try to lay a piece of plastic foodwrap on top to cover the whole surface area, and then put an air-tightcap on,but there are still gooy chunks of gelled varnish at the top. So far thishasn't been a problem because they tend to stick to the sides of the tube,butI'm afraid to pull them out for fear of breaking off and leaving bitssuspendedin the tube. (How) have others dealt with this threat? -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@jlc.net Mon Jun 2 19:26:44 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA19852 for Subject: Re: Greyrock '97 Michael Biondo wrote: It just dawned on me that at this time, two weeks from nowI'll be on the road heading towards Grayling, MI forGreyrock '97!!! I'll be leaving St. Louis, heading northto Chicago, meeting up with fellow listmember Dennis Highamand carpooling the rest of the way to Grayling. With anETA of "Evening:Hatch o'clock" GST(grayrock standard time :-) Last year, I only set aside three days which immeadiatelybecame apparent was NOT enough time to take in all greatfun, fishing, and friendships! So this year I'm planningalmost a week. (Geez, at this rate I might just have tomove up there in 5 years!!!) Another thing that became apparent...last year I broughtup a 2.5 gallon keg of homebrew which all but disappearedthe first night. This year I'm bringing a FIVE gallon keg!!! So, let's start up the attendance/arrival list... Wayne, Matt, and Lyndi Cattanach Friday the 13th (hmmmm!!? ;-)Dennis Higham Tuesday 6/17 Evening:Hatch o'clockMike Biondo Tuesday 6/17 Evening:Hatch o'clock Let me know what day/hatch you'll arriving and I'll get youadded to the list. Everyone is encouraged to come up a fewdays before the official start date of 6/20. Many side tripsto sample the surrounding waters are un-planned. (NON-planningis a well-seated tradition of Grayrock! :-) Hope to see you all in Greyrock... Mike - Rod & Mug at the ready - BiondoSt. Louis, MOMike,ETA 6/18Reed from WDHCJL@aol.com Mon Jun 2 19:57:29 1997 Subject: Re: beginner answer Amazing given the fact that he has disappeared...to get his attentionsomeonehad to challenge the book! Just joking Wayne. By the way, got your call andI wasn't on the couch! Word is that you are coming up on the 13th...I maytry that date to. Will call re: bamboo, video etc.Doug from plipton@sunvalley.net Mon Jun 2 22:21:51 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA206 Subject: dip tubes Mark: When I am through dipping, I float about a teaspoon of thinner on thetop of my finish before sealing the tube. The way I do this is bydipping a fresh clean soda straw in thinner, placing a finger over theother end, removing the straw, place it over the dip tube and let thethinner run onto the surface of the finish. Maybe the thinner seals outsome air and maybe it evaporates rather than the varnish. Another suggestion that I have not tried is to spray some inert gas inthe tube and seal it up. The idea comes from wine enthusiasts. Wineshops sell a product that you spray into a partial bottle beforere-corking it. It is a mixture of carbon dioxide, argon and small tracesof other gasses. One proprietary name is Alagal. Oh yes, and I pick out bits of goo that happen anyway. Mark M Freed wrote: I've got my dip tube up and running and the finishes areremarkable for thetime invested in each rod. I highly recommend dipping for those whoaredissatisfied with their finishes.One question I do have is what others have done to solve theproblem ofgelled finish at the top of the tube. I try to lay a piece ofplastic foodwrap on top to cover the whole surface area, and then put anair-tight cap on,but there are still gooy chunks of gelled varnish at the top. Sofar thishasn't been a problem because they tend to stick to the sides of thetube, butI'm afraid to pull them out for fear of breaking off and leavingbits suspendedin the tube. (How) have others dealt with this threat? -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu -- ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 3 01:07:00 1997 Subject: Re: beginner answer In a message dated 97-06-03 01:40:52 EDT, you write: the start point for the butt section is at 39". To best getthis point set the forms at 35" and at 40" then make a start mark atwhatwould be 39" - then set the strips so that the tip of the butt stripsstartat this mark. Well Hey it makes sense when you live in Casnovia. I was waiting for someone else to answer this one, becauseI'm beginning to sound like a know-it-all even to myself.Basically it's this: If the end of your section falls betweentwo stations, then you have to set the forms at both stationsto get the taper right at the end point of the section. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 3 01:16:39 1997 Subject: Re: dip tubes In a message dated 97-06-03 01:45:01 EDT, you write: Mark, I have run into the same problems. I have a valve at the bottom of my dip tube which now needs to be removed and cleaned. I did purchasea strainer recently and plan on straining the varnish when moving it between tube and storage container. Haven't tried it yet, but it may work. Please let the list know if you find anything out. The paint strainer works great. To clean the valve, after the varnish has drained and beforeit hardens, pour some paint thinner in a small can, like aCampbells soup can, and sumbmerge your valve in thepaint thinner by lifting the can up to the valve from the bottom.Prop the can up on another can or something and let it sit be sure you don't contact the end with the paint thinner. Thethinner will go up inside the tube if you lift the can up too far. DArryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 3 01:48:09 1997 Subject: Re: dip tubes In a message dated 97-06-02 17:56:58 EDT, you write: One question I do have is what others have done to solve the problemofgelled finish at the top of the tube. If you put the varnish back into the can, you leave the gelledvarnish in the can. Use a paint strainer when you fill the tubeup for the next rod. Or, if you carefully pour about a half ounceof thinner down the side of the tube, trying to form a layer ofthinner on the top of the varnish, and the thinner does floaton top if you're careful, then you don't have the gel problem.Mix well just before you do your next rod. I can't leave the varnish in the tube because it's out in thegarage, and my garage gets really hot in the summer. Darryl Hayashida from neuneman@fh-ge.de Tue Jun 3 03:06:22 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA18429; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 10:12:54 +0200Subject: Re: Ferrule Tabs Hi Karl, 2. A few days ago, there was some chatter about fitting these ferruleswithcrocus cloth, special files, etc... I have a supply of 500 and 600 wet/drypaper. Do you think that the grit from this paper would imbed in theferrulematerial and eventually lead to it self destructing? 600 grit paper is OK. If you can get some finer grit paper like 1000 it is even better. Take your time when fitting your ferrules. With finer grit paper it is easier not to screw up. Cleaning of the female (and the male) part of the ferrule before trying the fit is very important! If you do that, there won't be any problems. I don't use any oil stones or steel wool because I feel that I have better control with narrow strips of 1000 grit paper. Frank Neunemann ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/-------------------- ---------------------------------------------- from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Tue Jun 3 06:36:13 1997 Subject: dip tube Thanks for the help with the dip tube problem. John Lipton's solutionseems tome the most elegant: a soda straw full of thinner gently poured on as thetoplayer on the varnish. Thanks John, -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Tue Jun 3 06:42:07 1997 Subject: apology to Philip Lipton Philip,I am terribly sorry for having gotten your name wrong, especially soafteryou came up with such an elegant solution. Please put it down to my beinggiddyabout the simplicity of your suggestion. -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Jun 3 08:28:01 1997 IAA32342 for ; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 08:27:59 - Subject: Re: dip tubes The new Garrett-Wade catalog (the same one with the little scraperplane on the back) has just such a product. I recall its $10 for a can of heavier-than- air gas that they say will give ~100 treatments.You just lift the varnish can (or tube) lid a crack and give it a squirt.It sounds like a good investment to me; I just paid $25 for a quart of Pratt&Lambert spar varnish, and used about 2 tablespoons to do guideson 2 rods. The guy at the paint store says that when varnish skimsover, it disproportionally looses its driers, so whats left after youdiscard the skim isn't as good. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 2 Jun 1997, Philip Lipton wrote: Another suggestion that I have not tried is to spray some inert gas inthe tube and seal it up. The idea comes from wine enthusiasts. Wineshops sell a product that you spray into a partial bottle beforere-corking it. It is a mixture of carbon dioxide, argon and small tracesof other gasses. One proprietary name is Alagal. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 3 10:01:07 1997 Subject: Re:Ferrule Tabs 1. The standard slits look like they provide enough movement toeliminatethe need to snip out any material to create tapered tabs. Thisobservationis based on a dry fit with a light-pressure thread wrap on the ferrule.Hasthis been the experience of others? I've found that I've had to at least thin out the tabs, because it's hard tomake the step up over the tabs with the thread when you wrap it, andthen you either have to double layer the thread or leave a gap in thethread. 2. A few days ago, there was some chatter about fitting these ferruleswithcrocus cloth, special files, etc... I have a supply of 500 and 600 wet/drypaper. Do you think that the grit from this paper would imbed in theferrulematerial and eventually lead to it self destructing? With the CSE ferrules I've bought, usually all that's needed is a littletouch up with 600 wet - dry, then polishing with a rouge cloth. alcohol or acetone on a Q-tip. Sometimes there's oil inside and theglue doesn't stick. Darryl Hayashida from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Tue Jun 3 10:26:58 1997 Subject: Greyrock '97 Update Here's the latest update... Wayne, Matt, and Lyndi Cattanach Friday the 13th (hmmmm!!? ;-)Dennis Higham Tuesday 6/17 Evening:Hatch o'clockMike Biondo Tuesday 6/17 Evening:Hatch o'clockChris Bogart Saturday 6/14 PFT (Prime Fishing Time)Reed Curry Wednesday 6/18 PADT (Prime Ale Drinking Time :-) If you have been planning on coming up later in the week, buthave the opportunity come up earlier, I really recommend it!There is so much great water and so much to do, a weekend isjust not enough time. You won't be sorry in giving yourselfas much time as you can get away with in Grayling! Those whohave attended in the past can certainly confirm this. Besides,if want any chance at all of sampling the official Grayrock '97HomeBrew you better there early!!!! :-) Mike - 13 days and counting - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Tue Jun 3 11:04:25 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA14429 for; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 12:04:22 -0400 Subject: Re: Greyrock '97 Update Mike, Unfortunately my name will not be added to the list this year. I will be in the Adirondacks on an annual fishing expedition. I will bow my head in silent reflection in honor of the event. We will have two 5 gallon kegs of homebrew to keep us busy. Have fun, and y'all be on yer best behavior now, y'hear? Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from DEMARALON@aol.com Tue Jun 3 12:35:04 1997 Subject: Re: Tonkin Cane Don't know about Texas but can recommend Charles H. Demarest, Inc inNewJersey. Our e-mail address is DEMARALON@aol.com. Eileen Demarest from 102130.461@compuserve.com Tue Jun 3 18:18:22 1997 Subject: Re: Well Somebody Had To Message text written byChris, INTERNET:rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wayne You forgot the most important part - I talked to the "Lovebug" on Sunday - he says most of the hatches are about 2 weeks behind sked - brown drakes will prob be in but the Hex hatch will be late -we will be lucky to see it (damn). Other than that - Mike is bringingthe beer - what else do we need to plan? Regards, Chris from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Jun 3 20:52:41 1997 Subject: Hida Fax No. Does anyone have a fax number for Hida woodworking. JBJames Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from burgould@mint.net Tue Jun 3 21:29:40 1997 mint.mint.net (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA29771 for; Tue, 3 Jun 1997 22:29:27 -0400 Sorry to post this to the whole list, but I lost (actually, my computerate) the direct e-mail address. Bob, I hooked my first atlantic salmon -- he got away, -- and I have somequestions for you. Please reply. Thanks. Bill from Bangor. from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Wed Jun 4 19:09:05 1997 Subject: test Testing. BTW, Grayrock sounds like fun. I have Marinaro's "In the Ring of the Rise", which I believe Grarock is part of his old stomping ground. Only a few "old time places" out west. Maybe we need to do something similar on the Rogue or Deschutes. Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jun 4 21:56:46 1997 Subject: [Fwd: add a book] This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5FE9F246603 We have a new contribution to the bookshelfThanks to Marcel jerry --------------5FE9F246603 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release "2" ID# 0-32582L10S150000)with ESMTP id AAA14582 for ;Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:51:02 -0500 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release "2" ID# 0-32582L10S150000)with SMTP id AAA3558 for ;Wed, 4 Jun 1997 07:50:30 -0500 0405PM) Organization: personnal Subject: add a book Hello I'm a french fly fisher and fly rod buider. I wonder if u could add abook to your shelf. Here are the reference :La canne ` mouche - Traiti de construction et d'habillage des cannes `mouche - J. De Lespinay - Editions La Simarre ZI n02 37300 Joui LhsTours FranceVery good book and very helpfullThanks and best wishesMarcel Cornille --------------5FE9F246603-- from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Wed Jun 4 23:30:06 1997 0000 Subject: Re: Introduction and identification help Hello, Here is my revised list. I suddenly need to sell some of these, so pricesare reduced from previous lists. Should be something here you can use. Heddon #125 Expert 9' 2 1/2F 3/2 6 wt.bag and tube no cap (2 perfect tips2 1/2F) this rod has a replaced bottom ferrule set probably due to damagebut the rest of the rod is exc. original condition and is ready to fish.Gold plated guides, ferrules (other than the replaced one) and reel seatparts....$155 W&M Granger Victory 8 1/2' 3/2 older bag, a very nice rod, ready to fish inVG+ condition 5 wt....$215 Goodwin Granger Special. 9 1/2' 3/2 original bag with channeled wood tipprotector. This rod from the late 20's or early 1930's. Has model nameengraved between knurled bands on NS slide band seat. Coke bottle grip.While in good condition overall the mid is delaminated for about 6 inchesnear the big end. No breaks or splinters. Needs to be reglued (mid)rewrapping and varnish. Tips measure only .070 so will make a nice bantyrod with mid and tips or restore this very early Granger.....$145 Heddon Model 13 9' 3/2. Project rod. This early 13 has the NS slide bandseat with "Heddon" stamped on butt cap. Has rarely seen Fish Decal withHeddon. Early style Heddon ferrules. The butt has been broken and reglued.One tip is about 4 inches short. Good for parts or build a banty.....$50 Lyon & Coulson Crown #302 8 1/2' 2F ferrules. 5wt. Original bag and tube.Tube is taped up. Has readable label. Red/tipped black. Brown bakelite SLseat. Stripper is replaced with a snake guide. Varnish is good with somesmall chips and nicks. This rod should have a few rewraps and a rubout anddip. A nice casting rod for .....$165 Weber of Stevens Point Wisconcin. 9' 3/2 in original bag. Heddon made 21/2F ferrules. Jasper wrappings. Weber decal on butt. Varnish should berubbed out in places. this rod from early to mid 30's. Nice old rod to fishor display......$145 Heddon Model 20 9' 2 1/2F 3/2 original bag/tube needs a little more polishand a few rewraps of easy color no tipping....$225 H-I Tonka Queen 7'9" 2/2 bag/tube not original? 5 wt. These rods are verynice affordable short rods usually found with one tip for this price.VG toExc....$235...pending Heddon Model 10 9' 2 1/2F 3/2 bag/tube 6 wt. repair wrap on one tip butseems sound VG....$140 Model 1200 Webercraft, 8 1/2' 3 piece with two tips in excellentcondition. These Weber rods were made by Heddon. Original bag and tubeboth well marked. The varnish is beautiful. This rod will cast a 5 wt.well. This rod has a full metal DL reel seat and is from the late 30's. Ihave had this rod in my collection but want to get something new, so off itgoes......$255 Montgomery Ward's "Precision" 9' 3/2 bag and tube. South Bend built rod,one tip is about 3" short. Wraped in black w/yellow tipping. Probably for a6 wt. Varnish fairly good. South Bend style comficient grip.#97003......$55 South Bend Model 59 9' 3/2 bag and tube VG with a few wraps a little dry.Nice bass and panfish rod....$75 Montague Rapidan 9/ 3/2 bag and fiber tube with nice label. Flamed andwrapped as usual. EX original condition. Could use a little varnish on thesilks. Priced to sell at.......$95 Montague 9' rod 3/2. Project rod. Decal is gone so don't know the model.One tip is about 6" short. Ferrules not cracked. Plastic down lock seat.Good cork.....$45 Wiscoy #604 9' 3/2 one tip 1 inch short. bag and fiber tube no cap.Probably made by H-I good for bass and panfish, good solidcondition.....$45 Reels Horrocks-Ibbotson Mohawk No. 1106 Green VG-.....$15 Ocean City No. 35 Good.....$12 Pflueger Medalist 1495 1/2 with extra spool & lines Made in USA EX-.....$50 Books Trout by Ray Bergman not 1st EX condition......$15 Streamcraft by Holden 1919 not first. A little loose but good readingcopy.....$15 Standard three day inspection. $8 S&H per rod $4 per reel. Let me know if anything interests you. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Wed Jun 4 23:39:58 1997 0000 Subject: Sorry for mistaken post Hello, Sorry for the posting of my list. It was an accident and will try not tolet it happen again. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Thu Jun 5 08:33:03 1997 06:32:29 -0700 Subject: Re: Payne guide spacing Dennis: Thanks a bunch. I recently purchased an 8'0" 2pc Payne. I got it at abargain price because its ferrules were repalced and all sections areshort. I'm trying to determine how much of the tip "shortness" is due to tip-endbreaks and how much is due to ferrule reset. Thanks again. --Rich------------------------------ Richard-The following guide spacing is from a payne 200L (8',3piece,4wt).Measurementsare with the rod assembled. tip top = 0"#1 =5"#2 = 10 1/4"#3 = 15 5/8"#4 = 21 1/8"#5 = 26 5/8"ferrule#6 = 34 3/16" Guide foot touches the ferrule tabs with a single brownwrap covering both.#7 = 40 3/8"#8 = 47 3/4#9 = 56 7/8"ferrule#10 = 66 3/8" Guide foot touches ferrule tabs, same single wrap.#11 = 74 1/2 agate stripper Hope this helps. Are you redoing an old payne or building a new rod? Regards Dennis ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 17:09:28-0700 Subject: Re: Payne guide spacing from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jun 5 08:37:12 1997 Subject: Conservation vs Restoration ? This is a question that has been nagging at me for some time, and wasbroughtto a head when I was asked my opinion on how to proceed with restorationon aC.F. Murphy rod. I haven't seen it yet, but it is apparently in rough shape,with short tips, some delamination, and old looking varnish and wraps.Normally, if a rod in this shape were brought to me, I would do arestoration job. That is; reglue, splice on new tip pieces, re- wrap, and re- varnish. In other words, restore the rod to it's original appearance, andalso restore it's ability to function as a fishing tool. My question is: Is there a point when that is no longer appropriate, whenthehistoric value of a rod exceeds its value as a tool and it should be treatedas a museum piece instead of a functional piece? In that case, should weadopt the attitude of a furniture conservator, doing only the minimalrepairsnecessary to stabilize the piece, and preserving as much of the originalstructure and finish as possible? I've never heard this area addressed, andwould be interested in the comments of fellow list members. --- Tom from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Thu Jun 5 09:06:21 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA13369 for; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 10:06:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Conservation vs Restoration ? Hello all, C.F. Murphy did not build rods to be hung up on a wall or stored in a glass case.I think all rod makers build rods to fish with. Granted, they are things of beauty, but the "spirit of the rod" wants to fish. By all means fish with it. My $.02 worth. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from santiago@ricochet.net Thu Jun 5 09:27:29 1997 HAA27921 for ; Thu, 5 Jun 1997 07:27:24 - Subject: Re: Introduction and identification help michael, do you have or are you able to get a copy of martin keane's book? email me directly thanks, leo santiago@ricochet.net from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Thu Jun 5 09:48:41 1997 07:48:06 -0700 Subject: Re: Conservation vs Restorat Tom: On a rod like this, whose value is in historical significance, it may beappropriate to do absolutely NOTHING to the rod, regardless of thecondition. If you were to do something, maybe just regluing the delaminations wouldbe asfar as you should go. If I were in your shoes, I would call Martin Keane anddiscuss what should be done. I'm sure he can offer the best advice. Hisnumber is: (413) 229-7988. --Rich------------------------------ This is a question that has been nagging at me for some time, and wasbroughtto a head when I was asked my opinion on how to proceed with restorationon aC.F. Murphy rod. I haven't seen it yet, but it is apparently in rough shape,with short tips, some delamination, and old looking varnish and wraps.Normally, if a rod in this shape were brought to me, I would do arestoration job. That is; reglue, splice on new tip pieces, re- wrap, and re- varnish. In other words, restore the rod to it's original appearance, andalso restore it's ability to function as a fishing tool. My question is: Is there a point when that is no longer appropriate, whenthehistoric value of a rod exceeds its value as a tool and it should be treatedas a museum piece instead of a functional piece? In that case, should weadopt the attitude of a furniture conservator, doing only the minimalrepairsnecessary to stabilize the piece, and preserving as much of the originalstructure and finish as possible? I've never heard this area addressed, andwould be interested in the comments of fellow list members. --- Tom ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 06:48:44-0700 Subject: Conservation vs Restoration ? from rcurry@jlc.net Thu Jun 5 18:35:10 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA28480 for Subject: Re: Conservation vs Restoration ? TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: This is a question that has been nagging at me for some time, and wasbroughtto a head when I was asked my opinion on how to proceed withrestoration on aC.F. Murphy rod. I haven't seen it yet, but it is apparently in rough shape,with short tips, some delamination, and old looking varnish and wraps.Normally, if a rod in this shape were brought to me, I would do arestoration job. That is; reglue, splice on new tip pieces, re- wrap, andre- varnish. In other words, restore the rod to it's original appearance, andalso restore it's ability to function as a fishing tool.My question is: Is there a point when that is no longer appropriate, whenthehistoric value of a rod exceeds its value as a tool and it should betreatedas a museum piece instead of a functional piece? In that case, should weadopt the attitude of a furniture conservator, doing only the minimalrepairsnecessary to stabilize the piece, and preserving as much of the originalstructure and finish as possible? I've never heard this area addressed,andwould be interested in the comments of fellow list members. --- TomTom,I used to work in the "Conservation" field and we were constantlyconfronted by that question. Most of our pieces were significanthistorically and were the property of the peoples of Canada. We wishedto "conserve", but in many cases, where the piece would be exhibited, we"restored" the piece, sometimes removing some wood in order to cut aDutchman, sometimes painting in grain with Pot. Dichr. on a patch. Theresult of our restoration efforts was usually a fully functional piecerepresentative of the original craftsman's effort.In the case of your piece, knowing the high quality of your work, Iwould personally vote for restoration.Best regards,Reed from jsbond@inforamp.net Thu Jun 5 19:26:25 1997 Subject: Hida fax number I was kicked of the server for a few days, can anyone send me a faxnumber the server. JBJames Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri Jun 6 08:03:34 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id NAA15439 for; Fri, 6 Jun 1997 13:03:30 GMT Subject: Re: Conservation vs Restoration ? Reed F. Curry wrote: TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: This is a question that has been nagging at me for some time, and wasbroughtto a head when I was asked my opinion on how to proceed withrestoration on aC.F. Murphy rod. I haven't seen it yet, but it is apparently in roughshape,with short tips, some delamination, and old looking varnish and wraps.Normally, if a rod in this shape were brought to me, I would do arestoration job. That is; reglue, splice on new tip pieces, re- wrap, andre- varnish. In other words, restore the rod to it's original appearance, andalso restore it's ability to function as a fishing tool.My question is: Is there a point when that is no longer appropriate,when thehistoric value of a rod exceeds its value as a tool and it should betreatedas a museum piece instead of a functional piece? In that case, shouldweadopt the attitude of a furniture conservator, doing only the minimalrepairsnecessary to stabilize the piece, and preserving as much of the originalstructure and finish as possible? I've never heard this area addressed,andwould be interested in the comments of fellow list members. --- TomTom, I mostly do work like you describe. I would vote for restoration likereed. I would also think about taking the tip measurements and extendthem to the origonal length and make new tips if I were planning toactually fish the rod. by the way when a rod restorer says "restore" hemeans a full restoration, to origonal look and fishability. Bryant C. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Jun 7 04:26:27 1997 KAA28539 for ; Sat, 7 Jun 1997 10:26:09+0100 Subject: Testing Nothing coming in for several days. Has America slid into the sea, or hassome glitch appeared in the system? Gimme a come-back good buddy. JO-C. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jun 7 05:40:40 1997 Sat, 7 Jun 1997 18:40:26 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Testing On Sat, 7 Jun 1997, John Cooper wrote: Nothing coming in for several days. Has America slid into the sea, or hassome glitch appeared in the system? Gimme a come-back good buddy. JO-C. Reading you OK in the (your) Antipodes Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from SacMan6@aol.com Sat Jun 7 09:51:57 1997 Subject: Re: Testing I think everyone is out fishing. Have not had good response to questions oflate.DanPalo Alto from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Jun 7 14:49:58 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA27484 for Subject: Grayling - Trading Last year I had some fun making some trades at the Grayrock Gathering(the strangest being a Leonard for a Montague... don't ask). There aresome hard to find rod parts, obscure books, blanks, etc. that I need.And I have some things that might delight someone else (e.g., Traver's"Anatomy of a Fisherman", Walden's "Angler's Choice"). Informally, overone of Mike B's brews we might exchange pleasantries and more.See you there,Reed from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Sat Jun 7 20:13:29 1997 0000 Subject: 60 degree pt. for indicator i just got my dial indicator and need the 60 degree point for it. I knowStarett has one, but i have contacted them numerous times to ask for acatalog and have not seen one yet (going on about 5 weeks). If anyonecouldsuppy me with the phone number, item number, and price from eitherStarettor a catalog which sells it, i would REALLY appreciate it. THANKS!!! Matt Leidermanmleider@postoffice.ptd.nethttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from KDLoup@aol.com Sat Jun 7 21:12:16 1997 Subject: Re: 60 degree pt. for indicator Matt, Oliver Van Horn Company in Baton Rouge, LA (504)355-2531 has aStarret60 degree point and 60 degree gauge ordered for me. The price is about $4and $10 respectively. I was told it would take about one week for Starrettoship the items to them. I assume they will be willing to ship an order outof state. Good luck. Kurt from jfoster@gte.net Sun Jun 8 12:50:50 1997 Subject: error Warning... I've just uploaded a new version of excel hexrod..In using it i found asmall bug in the form setup page.. This version is corrected. Please download this version if you have previously been using the oldversion Sorry about the inconvenience Jerry from jsbond@inforamp.net Sun Jun 8 20:18:25 1997 Subject: Re: 60 degree pt. for indicator Contact your local machinists supply store. Starrett does not sell directlyand they are also very expensive. If you don't live in a large centre, trythe library yellow pages for a supply house in the nearest large centre. JB At 20:13 07/06/97 -0500, you wrote:i just got my dial indicator and need the 60 degree point for it. I knowStarett has one, but i have contacted them numerous times to ask for acatalog and have not seen one yet (going on about 5 weeks). If anyonecouldsuppy me with the phone number, item number, and price from eitherStarettor a catalog which sells it, i would REALLY appreciate it. THANKS!!! Matt Leidermanmleider@postoffice.ptd.nethttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jsmm@interaccess.com Sun Jun 8 23:12:18 1997 XAA02857 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:10:05 - Subject: Straightening How long did it take most of you to go insane straightening a gluedsection? Any tips? Thanks,Matt Makowski from jsmm@interaccess.com Sun Jun 8 23:12:23 1997 XAA02868 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:10:09 - Subject: Herters Rod Looking for any information (value, production date, etc..) on a Hertersrod I picked up. Here are some of the details and markings: "Made in England" stamp on the rod"Grand Deluxe, St. Albans""Entirely hand made RH8C"Wraps are red and black Thanks,Matt Makowski from jsmm@interaccess.com Sun Jun 8 23:14:39 1997 XAA03133 for ; Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:12:25 - Subject: Re: 60 degree pt. for indicator I was able to order eight 60 degree points from Starrett for under $4. Ican get the number of the retailer if you need it. They might have thrownin some extra points because I also got a depth gauge, but it's probablyworth checking out. Matt Makowski from neuneman@fh-ge.de Mon Jun 9 02:52:14 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA06127; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:59:01 +0200Subject: Re: Straightening Hi there! How long did it take most of you to go insane straightening a gluedsection? Any tips? It largely depends on various things: - How I am emotionally prepared (having a good straightening day).- How many bends I put into that particular blank.- The day (hours before straightening) I had before switching on the hot air gun.- The amount of Valium and/or Scotch I took in. In fact I don't straighten, when I am not emotionally prepared to do it. The time required? It varies from 5 minutes to several hours. Tips? Keep VERY cool and relaxed. Frank Frank Neunemann ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/-------------------- ---------------------------------------------- from neuneman@fh-ge.de Mon Jun 9 02:52:19 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA06129; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:59:02 +0200Subject: Re: Testing Hi John, I can understand you loud and clear. Greetings fom Germany. Frank Frank Neunemann ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/-------------------- ---------------------------------------------- from neuneman@fh-ge.de Mon Jun 9 02:52:21 1997 (1.38.193.4/16.2) id AA06131; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 09:59:03 +0200Subject: Re: Ferrule Fitting "Rodbuilders List" Hi Karl, The fine grit paper seems to be a popular method although somebuilders also use a small felt buffing wheel to get a final polished finishon the slide. While I know it looks good, I am not sure how you control theprocess. Thats exactly the problem! You have absolutely no real control about how much material is removed. A ferrule is a high precision fit and the way I described it is the best way to do it, because you fit the ferrule step-by- step. I have put two new rods through the "Neunemann Oven" with good success.Maintaining temperature level and distribution has not been difficult.Lastweekend, I helped a new builder assemble his oven which also performswell. Great! Good to learn that you guys have success. I still use my oven, too. :-) No plans to try something different. In early May, my wife traveled through southern Germany and part ofAustriaand the corner of Switzerland with my son and his wife. She came backwithstories of beautiful rivers and reports of seeing several flyfisherman "atwork". We hope to expand on her travels as I have only been able to spendalittle time around Trier and some of the Moselle. In an early message youindicated that you fish small streams....what area of the country is yourpersonal favorite? There are lots of nice spots in southern Germany, Austria and Switzerland and I used to fish there regularly many years ago. I don't know about the conditions there right now, but fishing licenses tend to be pretty expensive. In 1983 the day license at the river Traun in Austria was about $65, which made me look for other spots to chase trout. Maybe someone else can tell you more about how the water conditions and prices are now. I fish in a "secret spot" or better say pretty unknown spot in northwest Germany which is in easy driving distance from my home (less than 2 hours. Nice water, but no guest licenses any more. If you want to fish there, you'd have to come with me. For (vacation) fly fishing trips I now prefer Alberta (far nicer people, better fishing) and I can combine fishing with an other hobby, or switch between both, in case the waters are unfishable (which happened to me all too often in the past). Around Trier and up in the Eifel mountains there are a number of spring creeks and rivers that hold nice fish. I have been there once in 1986, so I don't have any up-to-date information. Frank Frank Neunemann ------------------------------------------------------------------ http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/-------------------- ---------------------------------------------- from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jun 9 04:00:15 1997 KAA18254 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:00:00+0100 Has everyone gone fishing? I'm used to my system telling me I have 36newmessages - mostly from the States: for several days there's beenabsoultelynothing.. My last 'testing' mail elicited only one response from Frank inGermany. I wouldn't like to think I'm missing hundreds of 'pearls of wisdom.' Could someone at head-office just say 'hi'. from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Mon Jun 9 08:54:11 1997 Subject: Re: Hi John , I am certainly not from the head office, and I have not beenable to go fishing yet although we had one of the greatest giantstonefly hatches in history on the Henry's Fork this spring. Bad back,and my wife's commitment to my helping get a garden planted have keptmedown. I'm not even doing enough rod building to crow about, but that iscoming. I am only about 6 behind right now. It is good to hear fromsome of our friends from out of the US like you and Frank Neunemann Ralph Moon from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon Jun 9 09:03:58 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04076 for; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 10:03:56 -0400 Subject: Re: testing John, This is very common this time of year, everyone is trying out the rods they built over the winter, I know I've been. Add to it the Grayrock Meeting, BAM.... silence. If you think this is quiet, wait 'til the meeting starts. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jun 9 09:53:13 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.994.63) 1997 07:52:50 -0700 Subject: RE: 60 degree pt. for indicator 4.0.994.63 Starrett Tools 1-800-254-8690 part number is EDP70794. I bought twofroma starrett dealer here in Seattle for about $4.50 each. Patrick ----------From: Matt Leiderman[SMTP:mleider@postoffice.ptd.net]Sent: Saturday, June 07, 1997 6:13 PM Subject: 60 degree pt. for indicator i just got my dial indicator and need the 60 degree point for it. I knowStarett has one, but i have contacted them numerous times to ask for acatalog and have not seen one yet (going on about 5 weeks). If anyonecouldsuppy me with the phone number, item number, and price from eitherStarettor a catalog which sells it, i would REALLY appreciate it. THANKS!!! Matt Leidermanmleider@postoffice.ptd.nethttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Mon Jun 9 10:49:52 1997 Subject: Edward's Quadrate Anyone out there have info on an Edward's Quadrate? It is a 4 sided, 3 piece rod. It says #35 on it, light cane. The tube says AAW Co, Peerless, Newark, NJ. It belongs to a colleague of mine, and I am trying to get any info on it I can. Thanks in advance. Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from SacMan6@aol.com Mon Jun 9 12:18:00 1997 Subject: Re: Straightening I live in a dry region and a fellow suggested I use a steam vaporizer. Itworks great but you have to watch the moisture exposure. good luck.Dan from rbrown@cleanair.arb.ca.gov Mon Jun 9 15:08:41 1997 2.0/2.12um) id NAA000.70; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 13:08:38 -0400 Subject: Videos Hi all: While in my local fly shop yesterday, I rented two videos that might be of interest to the members of this list. They are: "Winston Waters - A Philosophy of Fly Fishing", narrated by Charles Kuralt and written by artist Russell Chatham, and The Art of Fly Reel and Rod Manufacture (A guided tour of the House of Hardy factory). I'd seen the Winston video referred to on this list before but never viewed it. Filmed in Montana (where else?) the cane rodmaking segment features Glen Brackett (who else?) and shows in some detail the building of a cane blank in a production environment. The video portrays the history of the R.L. Winston Company from its founders through its present owner. The scenery alone is worth the watching. The House of Hardy video shows the manufacturing steps involved inmaking a Hardy reel from casting the frame and spool to final inspection. I was amazed at the number of specialized machines employed in the factory to speed up repetitive operations. Time is also devoted to showing the building of both cane and graphite rods with some coverage of the use of a beveling maching for milling of the strips prior to gluing. Both these videos were well done and interesting. I plan on renting them again and I'd recommend them to anyone interested in knowing a bit more about how these two manufacturers produce their products. Regards, Rich Brown from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jun 9 17:22:08 1997 Subject: Re: testing Tom - You're right on several counts - or close - It's not the rods that got donethis winter that our family is concerned with but rather the ones thatHAVEto be shipped by next friday before we leave for Grayrock. Then add in ahard drive crash last week and you can generally get the idea. This year acouple of us have planned a surprise - Grayrock On Line. That's right - forthose of you that for one reason or another won't be attending this yearsfestivities - We plan to post updates and take questions on the hour. Nowthepost may be toned down a bit - we won't let on as if we were having fun orthe like - but if there happens to be a big fish caught or something - youwill hear about it at ' web ' speeds.And there will be several videos made of the presentations that will gointo a library that other gathering can ask to get copies of Well I must be off to the basement. Wayne from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jun 9 17:22:26 1997 SAA22747 for ; Mon, 9 Jun 1997 18:30:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Straightening MattNot to open an old can of worms - I spend very little and sometimes - NO rpt NO time straightening. I had one student whoafter taking the glue off wanted to know about straightening and I had to find an old scrap and induce straightening problems since his rod turned out straight. (of course this may lead to his long termphycosis trying to duplicate the feat in thinking all rods turn outthis way).Now, I contribute it to three reasons:First - nodeless constructionSecond - maintaining your anglesThird - Shell Epon Epoxy allowing a long working time. I have also had students bring me their straightening problems inclone hard dog leg to the right in a butt section (worse I have ever seen). Guidance is simple - straightening is a finesse thing - small stepsnot one great leap.Start at butt end and first get out twists - going forward - don'tjumpbackwards and forwards. Then get bends (starting at the butt end) thatseem to be caused by a flat (usually at a node) and lastly you may havea bend on an edge and straighten that. Key is to develop a system thatyou start from the back and go forward and not haphazzardly jumping around on a blank. On Sun, 8 Jun 1997 23:07:33 -0500, Matt and Julie wrote: How long did it take most of you to go insane straightening a gluedsection? Any tips? Thanks,Matt Makowski Regards Chris from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon Jun 9 17:52:04 1997 with ESMTP id RAA16611 for ; Mon, 9 Jun dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id SLWACUBM; Mon,9 Jun 1997 17:50:45 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Lie-Nielsen Scraper Everyone, Got my LN scaper the other day and was wondering, how does one sharpenthisblade, and how often should this take place? It seems sharp enough directfromthe factory but wouldn't I need a much steeper angle on my sharpeningguide ascompared to the hock plane blade (looks like about 30 deg for the planebladeversus about 60-70 deg for the scraper blade). BTW, regretfully I will not be joining you at Grayrock. I will be spendingthetimely wisely, however, as I will be in NYC on business and then mygirlfriendand will be meeting with some Catskill trout over the weekend. You guyshavefun, I know I will! ThanksDon DeLoach from rcurry@jlc.net Mon Jun 9 18:04:35 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA06470 for Subject: Grayling - lines Chris,At previous gatherings we enjoyed testing rods with different lines.Soplease bring all the lines you can carry, its the least likely one thatturns a ho-hum rod into a star. Reed from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jun 9 18:22:11 1997 Subject: Re: Conservation vs Restoration ? Can you keep the existing tips original and rebuild replacements? Sounds like this might be the best of all worlds. IMHO, Brian from M1L2@aol.com Mon Jun 9 18:40:37 1997 Subject: Potter County, PA - Flies? I will be fishing in Potter County, PA in several days. Any suggestions onwhat hatches to expect or fly patterns to have on hand? I am a new user of this service and hope this is an appropriate subject. Thanks. Myron Ward from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Jun 9 19:34:56 1997 Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Scraper Don, Sharpen the blade as you would a plane iron. First flatten the back, thenestablish the 30 deg. angle and then final sharpening, don't forget toremove the burr that develops on the opposite side. There is a great Hockhow to on the Conner FAQ, I believe it is in the Rodmakers homepage. Good Luck. JB At 17:50 09/06/97 -0700, you wrote:Everyone, Got my LN scaper the other day and was wondering, how does one sharpenthisblade, and how often should this take place? It seems sharp enough directfromthe factory but wouldn't I need a much steeper angle on my sharpeningguide ascompared to the hock plane blade (looks like about 30 deg for the planebladeversus about 60-70 deg for the scraper blade). BTW, regretfully I will not be joining you at Grayrock. I will be spendingthetimely wisely, however, as I will be in NYC on business and then mygirlfriendand will be meeting with some Catskill trout over the weekend. You guyshavefun, I know I will! ThanksDon DeLoach James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Jun 9 19:39:18 1997 Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Scraper Don, One more things, very important, THE BEVEL FACES BACK, this is theoppositeof a plane iron. JB At 17:50 09/06/97 -0700, you wrote:Everyone, Got my LN scaper the other day and was wondering, how does one sharpenthisblade, and how often should this take place? It seems sharp enough directfromthe factory but wouldn't I need a much steeper angle on my sharpeningguide ascompared to the hock plane blade (looks like about 30 deg for the planebladeversus about 60-70 deg for the scraper blade). BTW, regretfully I will not be joining you at Grayrock. I will be spendingthetimely wisely, however, as I will be in NYC on business and then mygirlfriendand will be meeting with some Catskill trout over the weekend. You guyshavefun, I know I will! ThanksDon DeLoach James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jun 9 20:04:20 1997 Tue, 10 Jun 1997 09:03:59 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: testing On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Tom - You're right on several counts - or close - It's not the rods that gotdonethis winter that our family is concerned with but rather the ones thatHAVEto be shipped by next friday before we leave for Grayrock. Then add in ahard drive crash last week and you can generally get the idea. This year acouple of us have planned a surprise - Grayrock On Line. That's right - forthose of you that for one reason or another won't be attending this yearsfestivities - We plan to post updates and take questions on the hour. Nowthepost may be toned down a bit - we won't let on as if we were having funorthe like - but if there happens to be a big fish caught or something - youwill hear about it at ' web ' speeds.And there will be several videos made of the presentations that willgointo a library that other gathering can ask to get copies of Well I must be off to the basement. Wayne Grayrock on line sounds good, it's a long drive from here! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon Jun 9 21:11:57 1997 0000 Subject: a few questions i have a few questions for those who accually know what they're doing! 1. are there any other ways to temper the cane other than in an oven?? iREALLY don't feel like building an oven, but if i have to i will. i read onBruce Conner's FAQ's that flaming is the most resiliant form of heating??also could i just get a heat gun and slowly run it up and down the sidesuntil the cane turns darker brown?? 2. i was looking through the new Woodcraft catalog and there was ascraperin there with a 2in. carbide tiped blade, and it was mounted on a plastichandle, sort of like a chisel handle, really hard to explain! i sawsomething like it on Mikael's page in his "How to build cnae rods" part, oneof the last pictures. wondering if anyone had any experiance with it, or ifi should just stay with a standard cabinet scraper for now. 3. i was reading through some of the archives and saw that someone(forgetwho) made a rod glued with Titebond II. i was just wondering how the rodwas holding up (the post was about a year ago), were there any problemswithit?? any input on these questions are appreciatted, THANKS!!! Matt Leidermanmleider@postoffice.ptd.nethttp://home.ptd.net from WDHCJL@aol.com Mon Jun 9 21:44:01 1997 Subject: Re: Videos Anyone that may have leads on the availablility of these videos pleaseprovide details thanksDoug Hall from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jun 9 22:15:21 1997 Tue, 10 Jun 1997 11:14:53 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: a few questions On Mon, 9 Jun 1997, Matt Leiderman wrote: i have a few questions for those who accually know what they're doing! 1. are there any other ways to temper the cane other than in an oven?? iREALLY don't feel like building an oven, but if i have to i will. i read onBruce Conner's FAQ's that flaming is the most resiliant form ofheating??also could i just get a heat gun and slowly run it up and down the sidesuntil the cane turns darker brown?? If you make your rods nodeless, you can use your kitchen oven. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Jun 10 04:44:51 1997 Subject: Re: testing At 09:03 AM 10/06/97 +0800, you wrote:On Mon, 9 Jun 1997 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Tom - You're right on several counts - or close - It's not the rods that gotdonethis winter that our family is concerned with but rather the ones thatHAVEto be shipped by next friday before we leave for Grayrock. Then add in ahard drive crash last week and you can generally get the idea. This yearacouple of us have planned a surprise - Grayrock On Line. That's right - forthose of you that for one reason or another won't be attending thisyearsfestivities - We plan to post updates and take questions on the hour.Now thepost may be toned down a bit - we won't let on as if we were having funorthe like - but if there happens to be a big fish caught or something - youwill hear about it at ' web ' speeds.And there will be several videos made of the presentations that willgointo a library that other gathering can ask to get copies of Well I must be off to the basement. Wayne Grayrock on line sounds good, it's a long drive from here! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ And from here , but I hope to make it next year if I can wangle a businesstrip at the right time Ian k Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jun 10 05:29:17 1997 Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:28:52 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: testing /***snip ******/ hard drive crash last week and you can generally get the idea. Thisyear acouple of us have planned a surprise - Grayrock On Line. That's right - forthose of you that for one reason or another won't be attending thisyearsfestivities - We plan to post updates and take questions on the hour.Now thepost may be toned down a bit - we won't let on as if we were havingfun orthe like - but if there happens to be a big fish caught or something -youwill hear about it at ' web ' speeds. Grayrock on line sounds good, it's a long drive from here! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ And from here , but I hope to make it next year if I can wangle a businesstrip at the right time Ian k Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Hey, Hey!!!! A Kiwi!! This list is getting downright mutli cultural! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from harry37@epix.net Tue Jun 10 07:06:04 1997 HAA15694 Subject: Re: Potter County, PA - Flies? M1L2@aol.com wrote: I will be fishing in Potter County, PA in several days. Any suggestionsonwhat hatches to expect or fly patterns to have on hand? I am a new user of this service and hope this is an appropriate subject. Thanks. Myron Ward Myron, I haven't fished the area for a few years, but I remember that this timeof year was good with Adams, 14 & smaller, Light Cahills/Sulfurs, 14 &smaller, and BWO are just starting to the east on Pine Creek in TiogaCounty.You might want to refer to Charlie Meck's books--a lot of what he talksabout for Pine Creek will probably be just as valid for most PotterCounty streams, since they're the adjoining county to the west. Probably the best title to look for would be "Pennsylvania Trout Streamsand Their Hatches". You don't have to buy it, just look at it for aboutfive minutes--you'll probably get enough to get you started. The tableswill be a little off this year since the spring's been so cold, and alot of hatches are late. Good luck--I grew up nearby and fished a lot in Potter County many yearsago, and always did well. If you're nearby and can get directed to theProuty, try it for an evening-It always fished well. Greg Kuntz from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Jun 10 08:54:59 1997 Subject: Re: Videos The winston video can be ordered from Winston directly. JB At 10:43 PM 6/9/97 -0400, you wrote:Anyone that may have leads on the availablility of these videos pleaseprovide details thanksDoug Hall from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Jun 10 09:03:12 1997 Subject: Re: a few questions Matt, Get some metal pipe, the kind we use for wood clamps (plumbing supplies)suspend it with wire and run a torch along it. Put an end cap on one end,slowly pass the torch along, when it it warm, put the cane in and you willsee steam escaping and you will have tempered some. Needless to say runabunch of tests first, use a watch and develop some tables. If you have agram scale, you can actually weigh the strips. Also, you may have tofashiona sort of shelf to aviod scorching. Garrison's oven was an external LP gastype and his rods sell for incredible sums. Go figure. JB At 09:11 PM 6/9/97 -0500, you wrote:i have a few questions for those who accually know what they're doing! 1. are there any other ways to temper the cane other than in an oven?? iREALLY don't feel like building an oven, but if i have to i will. i read onBruce Conner's FAQ's that flaming is the most resiliant form of heating??also could i just get a heat gun and slowly run it up and down the sidesuntil the cane turns darker brown?? 2. i was looking through the new Woodcraft catalog and there was ascraperin there with a 2in. carbide tiped blade, and it was mounted on a plastichandle, sort of like a chisel handle, really hard to explain! i sawsomething like it on Mikael's page in his "How to build cnae rods" part,oneof the last pictures. wondering if anyone had any experiance with it, orifi should just stay with a standard cabinet scraper for now. 3. i was reading through some of the archives and saw that someone(forgetwho) made a rod glued with Titebond II. i was just wondering how therodwas holding up (the post was about a year ago), were there any problemswithit?? any input on these questions are appreciatted, THANKS!!! Matt Leidermanmleider@postoffice.ptd.nethttp://home.ptd.net from maiello@yorku.ca Tue Jun 10 09:35:08 1997 (YbJakcePPMbwBaVZQkCex5qxzBskSG0B@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA16019 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: a few questions Matt,There was a post by Darryl a while ago where he describes how to heattreat a culm with a heat gun by just running it over the culm from one endto the other. If you cant find it in the archives I'm sure Darryl wouldshare it with you.If I recall, he split the culm in half, then with the heat gun hescorched the pith side slowly from one end to the other. This is to avoidhaving a spot which was not treated, and holding on to some water. Thenhewould start on the enamel side and work his way up again. Mauro from rfairfie@cisco.com Tue Jun 10 09:47:12 1997 HAA09756 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 07:46:40 - 0700 Subject: Re:heat treatment All, here is a re-post of Darryl's heat treating technique. Thanks,Roger ----- Begin Included Message ----- from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Feb 24 18:47:49 1997 Subject: Re:heat treatment Content-Length: 870 I've been staying out of the heat treatment thread becausethe subject is akin to religion to some people, and I'vealready been accused of being on the lunatic fringe ofbamboo rod making. But, here goes.... I heat gun the heck out of the pith side of a culm splitin half length wise. Until the pith scorches black andalmost ignites. You can heat the bamboo until thesmoke alarm goes off and the enamel side won'tchange color. a heat gun gives the heat time to soakthrough to the outside, a propane torch is too intenseto allow the heat to soak through before the pith ignites.You need to heat the nodes longer, but when you are doneyou have a nicely tempered culm. I also flame the enamelside, but not very much - mostly just for color. I like theflamed appearance. I think my rods turn out okay, at leastthey don't take and hold a set. Darryl Hayashida ----- End Included Message ----- from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Tue Jun 10 10:00:48 1997 Subject: Grayrock Rodmakers Gathering Hey everyone, if you are currently working on a rod, or gettingready to start one, bring it along with you to Grayling. Therewill be several complete sets of tools, forms and binders there a lathe if your blank just happens to be ready for ferrules, orturning a grip. C'mon up a few days early, fish the day away, and during theevenings you can build a rod while you're hanging out witheveryone in "The Clubhouse". Hey, I've been wanting to starton the 6'3" out of Wayne's book for a while now, this will bethe perfect time to do it! Hmmmm, this has possibilites... :-) Mike - counting the days - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 10 10:13:59 1997 Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen Scraper In a message dated 97-06-10 03:00:00 EDT, you write: Sharpen the blade as you would a plane iron. First flatten the back, thenestablish the 30 deg. angle and then final sharpening, don't forget toremove the burr that develops on the opposite side. There is a greatHockhow to on the Conner FAQ, I believe it is in the Rodmakers homepage. I find I disagree with this. A scraper blade does not work like a planeblade, and does not get dull as a plane blade does. I find that the timeto resharpen a LN scraper blade is when a little arch gets worn in theedge. Due to the angle that the blade is presented to the spline, as aLN scraper blade "dulls" a new edge is created. The time to resharpenis when the edge no longer cuts (scrapes) a flat surface. The original60 degree bevel presents an edge with a lot of metal behind it, anddoesn't wear away as quickly as a 30 degree bevel would. It alsotends not to chatter as much, also due to the thicker edge. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jun 10 10:21:53 1997 Subject: Re: a few questions In a message dated 97-06-10 10:36:59 EDT, you write: If I recall, he split the culm in half, then with the heat gun hescorched the pith side slowly from one end to the other. This is to avoidhaving a spot which was not treated, and holding on to some water. Thenhewould start on the enamel side and work his way up again. Yup, thats it! You can flame the enamel side too, but if you wanta light colored rod the heat gun works. It takes longer than usingan oven, and don't faint when your electric bill comes. Darryl Hayashida from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jun 10 17:48:39 1997 SAA04786 for ; Tue, 10 Jun 1997 18:56:46-0400 Subject: Re: Grayling - lines Reed Plan to do so - I have a selection of different lines for my7' 2wt incl the braided silk H line that we traded last year - It is interesting to see the difference line makes to a rod - maybe people will stop buying some of the cheap crap they sell whenthe can dramatically feel the difference. I encourage othersto bring lines and try different lines on their rods. A real education. See you and the SM in Grayling Regards Chris from wfmack@evansville.net Tue Jun 10 18:48:06 1997 world.evansville.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Tue, Subject: Re: Ralph Moon wrote: Hi John , I am certainly not from the head office, and I have not beenable to go fishing yet although we had one of the greatest giantstonefly hatches in history on the Henry's Fork this spring. Bad back,and my wife's commitment to my helping get a garden planted have keptmedown. I'm not even doing enough rod building to crow about, but that iscoming. I am only about 6 behind right now. It is good to hear fromsome of our friends from out of the US like you and Frank Neunemann Ralph MoonRalph--I tell my wife that if God had intended us to plant and tendgardens he wouldn't have invented gorcery stores! Of course thatdoesn't get me out of my annual duty on the compost heap, but it makesme feel better. Bill from M1L2@aol.com Tue Jun 10 19:47:57 1997 Subject: Re: Potter County, PA - Flies? Greg, Thanks for the tips on Potter County. I have heard of the Prouty and willtry to get to it. Best, MLW from EMiller257@aol.com Wed Jun 11 00:38:40 1997 Subject: Re: Grayrock Rodmakers Gathering question. What do your wives and kids do in Grayling while you're hangingoutat the clubhouse? The answer to this could affect future gatherings in agood way. Wishin' I was goin'..... ed m. from Fquinchat@cac.net Wed Jun 11 05:10:40 1997 1997 06:15:22 EDT Subject: Grayrock How do I sign up for the Grayrock rod builders gathering? Dennis Bertram from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Jun 11 09:51:17 1997 CDT Subject: Re: Grayrock Dennis asks... How do I sign up for the Grayrock rod builders gathering? Sign up???? Oh that's much too formal for this group!!! :-) Seriously, anyone interested in attending the rodmakersgathering in Grayling June 20 & 21, please just come onup. There is a $25 registration fee for the weekend.Many folks will be coming up earlier in the week, so ifyou have the time, everyone is encourage to get up therea few days early to enjoy the fishing, get started onbuilding a rod, and/or just hang out. If anyone would like more specific info, just let me know. Hope to see ya all there... Mike- from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Wed Jun 11 09:56:49 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA13451 for; Wed, 11 Jun 1997 10:56:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Lines Hello all, Chris wrote:interesting to see the difference line makes to a rod - maybe You don't kknow how true this is. I built two rods this winter, one was a Paul Young para-15, (he taper accuracy was not great). When test casting, it was horrible with a five weight, better witha 6 weight, but I think it will be best with a 7 or an 8. This is all with about 45-50' of line out. This test casting got me thinking, What is wrong with this logic:I'm fishing my local stretch of river, which is not very wide. I want to use my 8' - 5 wt.(based on 50' of line out), But I will only be casting 20' tops, couldn't I use a 7 or 8 wt line and not change the feel of the rod? I was just playing with Rodmaker, the stress curve's profiles look the same just shifted in the Y plane with just a change in line. (It seemed for a line change from 5 to 6, it took approx 10' to compensate to keep stress levels the same).I'm sorry if this revelation seems obvious, but it took some mystery out of this for me. Please tell me what you think. Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed Jun 11 13:45:20 1997 with ESMTP id NAA21623 for ; Wed, 11 Jun dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id OESTBTBL; Wed,11 Jun 1997 13:44:44 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Scraper blade sharpening Re sharpening the LN scraper blade, do those of you who use an off- stoneguide theangle would have to be drastically different because of the steep bevel onthescraper blade. How many strips do you get of of one sharpening typically? Thanks,Don DeLoach from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jun 11 16:12:24 1997 Subject: Re: Scraper blade sharpening In a message dated 97-06-11 15:06:04 EDT, you write: Re sharpening the LN scraper blade, do those of you who use an off- stoneguide course,theangle would have to be drastically different because of the steep bevelon thescraper blade. How many strips do you get of of one sharpeningtypically? I use an on the stone sharpening jig, because I use two differentwaterstones,and if the thickness of the stones are different you will get two differentangleswith an off the stone jig. To sharpen my LN scraper blade I use a Veritas jig. Due to the way thedesignis on a Veritas jig, you can sharpen a scraper blade at steep angles. becauseI get very close to final dimensions with a Record 9 1/2 plane before I usethe LN scraper. I usually have to do only a couple of passes per strip withthe LN scraper. I can do a number of complete rods without resharpeningthe scraper blade. Darryl Hayashida from MiTiernan@aol.com Wed Jun 11 16:37:53 1997 Subject: Re: Grayrock Rodmakers Gathering To answer E. Miller regarding what do the wives and kids do? Well I am awife and I fish (since my husband was kind enough to finally make me acanerod). However there are other activities also. Hartwick Pines State Parkisclose and has some nice hiking areas, an interpretive center, andactivities.Canoeing is very popular in the area and the back half of the Fly Factory isknown as Ray's Canoes. There is a wonderful quilt store called the Ice Boxin Grayling that needs to be visited regardless of sewing ability. (Mysewing is limited to rod tube bags). Traverse City is close and has manytourist attractions, including an outlet mall. Interlochen has a nationallyknown musical arts center and probably about an hour away. The group is friendly and I have always felt welcomed. Not havingchildren Ican't directly respond to that, however there are children there and theyalwaysseem to be having fun. For more information contact the Grayling AreaVisitors Council at:http://www.grayling-mi.com e-mail : visitor@grayling-mi.comor theMichigan Travel Bureau at: http://www.travel-michigan.state.mi.us It is great fun in Grayrock, hope to see you and the family there.Cheryl Tiernan from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Jun 11 16:38:56 1997 Subject: Re: Grayrock Rodmakers Gathering My answer may be different than others - but the 'kids' will be in withthe group especially Lyndi and the fishing. The wife doesn't fish or makerods but she enjoys the boat rides. justwest of Grayrock 45 miles in TC(Traverse City). And if by some chancetheygolf there is Gaylord to the north. And then Fudgey Mackinew City andIslandabout 1 1/2 hours up I 75.And you thought that you were going to be stuck out in the middle ofnowhere. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Jun 11 16:41:30 1997 Subject: Re: Grayrock Dennis -All you have to do is show up - And If you are in town this weekend itmight be a good time to do the boat thing we were supposed to do earlier. Wayne from "rmoon"@dns.ida.net Wed Jun 11 17:33:58 1997 Subject: Re: Lines You are quite right Tom. I have never done the math to determine theexact line size for a relative distance in a given rod, but I rememberwhen I was still a boy that I invariably overloaded my rod when I wasfishing near and fine. Sounds dumb does'nt it. Heavier line for closerfishing, but then it is really the way one casts and the leader that areimportant at the final link between fly and fish. I have gotten soraunchy in my old age I am deliberately not marking line weights on myrods. Ralph from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Jun 11 18:39:36 1997 Subject: Grayrock - the wednesday before An update of sorts - the aprons are done - There will also be name tags- the around the neck type ( similar as dog tags - for body identification -if needed). Several are bring tools and rods under construction or start onsite. I have an oven and wood lathe - torches - in addition to a couplecomplete sets of hand tools. Mile T is coming with canoe and dip tubelatchedto the roof of the sport utility. Ya - the dip tube is a bail out plan for arod that looks like it won't quite get all the coats of finish on beforefriday.With the extended unofficial days several of the group will have achanceto learn and practice their skills (flyfishing - rod making - brewskis). Iambring practice culms as well as some to make rods with. I suspect thatanyrain days and evenings that the shavings will be rolling in the clubhouse.There is not going to be any moon to fish too late into the night with sothis could all work out well. All are welcome to come and join us whetherveteran or novice - this could be a rewarding experienceI talked with Ron Barch a couple of nights ago and he will have freshcopies of his new book available. The ferrules are in for those that orderedthem and there maybe a spare set or two for impromptu selection. AlBellingerhas sent several sample reelseats as well as Al at REC - Bellinger also a reel for all to drool over - wholesale it's a tad over $700.AND - a while back I purchased a fine piece of fly fishing antiquia -buried in a corner of a local shop I pawed out a new # 6 DTsilk line - itcame mounted on an even more collectible bakelite reel with green crankhandle - NOW this line is bigger than what I normally fish so I might beableto be talked out of it or it might be donated to a less than silent bid forthe local stream improvement fund.I appologize for the silence of late - it has been a period of addressingneeded issues - but I'm looking forward to a relaxing sleepless week inGrayrock. There will be a postings board for messages and to indicate thelocale of the major flock - or if in dought just come to Spike's. The phonenumber for The Fly Factory is 517 - 348 - 5844 or my home number is 616- 675- 5894 - my patient and loving wife will take messages and answerquestionsas needed. Wayne from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Jun 11 19:29:36 1997 Subject: test Test from Fquinchat@cac.net Wed Jun 11 21:13:13 1997 1997 22:18:04 EDT Subject: Re: Grayrock ----------From: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: GrayrockDate: Wednesday, June 11, 1997 5:50 PM Dennis -All you have to do is show up - And If you are in town this weekend itmight be a good time to do the boat thing we were supposed to do earlier. Wayne Wayne: We will be up this weekend (in Fredrock). Let's do the boat thing, I'lldrop by the Fly Factory Friday evening. If we don't connect, call thecabin. Dennis from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Jun 12 11:17:38 1997 with ESMTP id LAA15745 for ; Thu, 12 Jun dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id NMQQAOBM; Thu,12 Jun 1997 11:16:44 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Alternative glues Was at the local Boater's World last night looking for Resorcinol when Istarted talking with one of the employees who was a boatbuilder about hisfavorite glue-- West Systems epoxy. He thinks this stuff is far superior toanything he's used, including Resorcinol and Nyatex, mainly because itswater-thin and extremely flexible. He seemed to indicate that theflexibilityof this stuff would be perfectly suited to rod building. Also he said it islighter than anything he's tried--this really peaked my curiosity. Thelighterthe better, because a glue-heavy tip section changes rod actionconsiderably.Anyway the guy seemed real knowledgable and helpful and gave me lots ofinformation on the glue. There are several resin/hardener combinationswithvarying setup times. The 206 formula is the quickdry formula (15-20minutes)whereas the 209 has a working time of nearly an hour. The only drawback Icouldsee with this stuff is the cost--about $50 for the resin and hardener inthe209 formula. Anyone heard of this stuff, or tried it on a rod? Don DeLoach from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Jun 12 11:45:37 1997 Subject: Re: Alternative glues Dear Don,You should try to find out at what temperature the cured resinsoftens(glass transition temperature). Then find out at what temperaturecatastrophic failure occurs. If these two figures are close, then youwon't be able to straighten the glued sections without risk. If they are50 or more degrees apart, then you'll have a good useable compound.John Zimny from 102130.461@compuserve.com Thu Jun 12 12:28:45 1997 Subject: Grayrock Hatch Update I thought that those of you coming to Grayrock might appreciate a streamconditions and hatch update. It follows below. Steve Southard~~ *************************************************************************** THE FLY FACTORY HATCHLINE UPDATE 6/12 BROWN DRAKE ALERT! Things are warming up here in the north. Evening fishing and bigger-fish-on- dry-flies fishing is in fashion !! The sulphurs, march browns, light cahills and mahoganys [...ies??] are active. There have been reports of brown drakes on the north branch and also in the bigger water below Mio. Both reports are unconfirmed [not firsthand] but come from reliable sources. All indicators point to increasing brown drake activity over the next few days to a week. STREAM CONDITIONS The streams have dropped considerably and virtually all streams sections are either at normal levels or are a little below normal levels. Some ofthe sections that lower than normal are extremely clear. All stream sections are fishable! Essentially, we have already reached summer stream conditions. Though we have a good ground water charge, from snowpack and a good, gradual melt off, the woods are dry and streams are dropping steadily. We need some rain to wet the woods and reduce the fire danger, which is very high right now. Water temps firmly moved over 60 degrees. Morning water temps recently have ranged from the mid 50's to low 60's and late afternoon water temps in the low to high 60's. With warmer evenings [in the 50's] the water temps are not dropping dramatically overnight. This morningwe repeated our highest AM water temp of the season - 62 degrees. Conditions are likely not to change significantly as the balance of theweek should bring us a continuing spell of warm weather, perhaps cooling from the 80's to the 70's, with decent sunshine and [we hope] a chance of showers Thursday and Saturday in addition to the little bit of rain wereceived via a thunderstorm last evening. HATCH ACTIVITY We're still seeing some olives early in the AM, from dawn until the sungets high enough in the sky to chase away early morning shadows, and again at dusk and after dark. With warmer temps, the black caddis [#16-18 with green egg sac) have peaked, but we are still seeing a few on some river sections. The olive caddis [#12-16]and tan caddis [#14] are hatching strongly now, with lots of both caddis coming off at and after dark. We've had bugs on our shop window after dark regularly over the past two weeks and the overnight conditions have steadily been becoming more 'summer-like'. There have March Browns [#12] and Sulphurs [#16-18] for sometime and the Light Cahills [#12-16] have come on more strongly during this week. These light bodied mayflies are a great hatch to fish -at dusk in the "sweet" time of the evening; Roberts Drake [#14-18] can be very effective. In some river sections we are also seeing good numbers of yellow [or "green"] stones [#12-14], a few larger stones [#8-10] and an occasional "giant" stone [similar to the western "salmon fly"] that run up size 2-4. In the past two days we've had some reports of brown drakes, particularly on the North Branch; haven't been there personally to confirm, butcertainly conditions are right for the brown drakes and we are going to be seeing plenty of them very soon ---- expect good brown drake activity by the end of the week. There are also decent numbers of big "mahoganies". These bugs range size 10-12 [primarily 12] and are a very dark reddish-brown. When the spinners hit the water, generally near dark, they can be tough to see with their very dark body color and clear wing. the trout will sometimes go "selective" on these bigger flies, to the exclusion of larger numbers of sulphur duns and spinners. Keep an eye out for them!! With the caddis active throughout the day, Royal trudes and sparkle trudes [#12-14] have been a good daytime attractor pattern. You can also fish a soft-hackled wet fly [like a partridge & peacock] during the day when you see the caddis hatching and no surface feeding activity. Try rigging upwith a beadhead nymph "down" [on the end of your line] and a soft-hackle on a dropper, up 12-18" from the beadhead. If fishing a caddis dry fly,"skitter" it a bit to attract attention. Alternatively, try trailing a caddisemerger or soft-hackle from the bend of the hook of the dry, about 12-18" behind; treat the trailing dropper with leader sink. Look for trout to more actively feed on the caddis emergers near the surface late in the day, when the sun is low in the sky and until dark, but generally very close to cover. There can be a real 'pot pouri' [big assortment!] of bugs active at dark [including mosquitoes!!]. It can be tough to identify which of the insects the fish are feeding on. Look closely and use a net seine to identifywhich fly to use; carry a bunch of different flies!!!! [it's good for business] AND there is a decent chance that we may see some showers later in the week. Heavy overcast and rain can bring bigger browns out to cruise [that normally stay very close to cover in the daylight hours]. They come out to pick up minnows and smaller fish dislodged by increased flows caused by the rain. Get out and fish in that rain!!! --- using zonkers, sculpins, matukas, muddlers, etc. We like using a sinking leader system - which we have diagrammed on our board in the shop -- rather than a split shot or a sink tip line. It is very versatile, easier to cast and is resistant togetting hung up on the bottom. WEATHERThu: partly sunny; 80Fri: partly sunny; upper 70's - 80Sat: dry; upper 60's - mid 70'sSun: chance of showers; 70 - 75Mon: chance of showers; 70 AN OLINE HATCHLINE BONUS TODAY: A "fishing story": The night before last I headed over to the Manistee with Sam Surre for an evening wade. Some of you know Sam, who is an excellent and creative production tyer who also guides and does instruction [both ff'ing and fly- tying] through the shop. We arrived at the river [between Yellow Trees and CCC Bridge] just as the sun got very low in the sky. We could see some bugs on the water and some smaller fish were already active, so we hurried to get into our waders and the river. Sam went upstream and I went down. Within a few minutes there were nicer fish feeding; 3 or 4 looked to be in the 12-18" range, judging bytheir rise forms and feeding habits. Sulphurs and mahogany spinners were obviously active. In short order I went through a succession of 5 or 6 fly changes, trying to match the bugs that were the object of these finebrowns' attention. The best I managed were several very tentative takes and a like number of outright refusals. I knew that I hadn't succeeded in finding the right fly and considered wading over into their feeding lane to see if I could figure out what I was missing. I didn't do so [not wanting to disrupt their feeding rhythm] but,in retrospect, now wish that I had. At least I would have likely discovered what these trout had gone 'selective' on and had the right fly on my line before it became too late. While I was standing in midstream with the latest wrong-fly-of-choice in my hand and contemplating my next move, Sam waded down behind me. "Did you hear my little 2 weight reel singing?", says he. Too involvedwith my own predicament to notice, I hadn't heard Sam's good fortune, but the twinkle in his eye was a quick indicator that Sam had landed a nice fish. It turned out that he had identified the trout's food-of-choice fairly quickly-- #20-22 olives [in the midst of #16 Sulphurs and #12 mahogany spinners] -- and had landed and released two nice browns, one 17"+ and another a little smaller. Sam offered his rod and #20 olive; I had a couple of decent fish roll on it, but the feeding activity was winding down and I never "hooked up". Moral of the story: It is always important, and especially so during this evening/night-time fishing period, to fully and accurately assess what is going on with regard to the bugs on the water and the trout's bug of choice. At this time of year there can be perhaps a half dozen or more different insects on the water at one time. Bigger is not always better,as the above story illustrates. Take time when you enter the water to take a close look around; check a feeding lane [generally where the bubblesgather into a steady stream in the river - the "bubble line". Using a seine tocheck in a pouch right on your net and is very handy - the "Quick-Seine" from gwbarnes@biddeford.com Thu Jun 12 12:50:47 1997 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27578 for Subject: Re: Alternative glues At 11:16 AM 6/12/97 -0700, you wrote:Was at the local Boater's World last night looking for Resorcinol when Istarted talking with one of the employees who was a boatbuilder abouthisfavorite glue-- West Systems epoxy. He thinks this stuff is far superiortoanything he's used, including Resorcinol and Nyatex, mainly because itswater-thin and extremely flexible. He seemed to indicate that theflexibilityof this stuff would be perfectly suited to rod building. Also he said it islighter than anything he's tried--this really peaked my curiosity. Thelighterthe better, because a glue-heavy tip section changes rod actionconsiderably.Anyway the guy seemed real knowledgable and helpful and gave me lots ofinformation on the glue. There are several resin/hardener combinationswithvarying setup times. The 206 formula is the quickdry formula (15-20minutes)whereas the 209 has a working time of nearly an hour. The only drawbackIcouldsee with this stuff is the cost--about $50 for the resin and hardener inthe209 formula. Anyone heard of this stuff, or tried it on a rod? Don DeLoach Sure have. I've been using West Epoxy for years on all the rods I've built.The things John Z. mentioned are all available from West System (GougeonBrothers, Inc., P.O. Box X908, Bay City, MI 48707, Tel 517-684-7286, FAX517-684-1374). They also have a WEB page but I've misplaced the URL. When contacted they have been very helpful. For example when I startedgoing nodeless, they went to great length to be sure their system wascompatible with the Tight Bond II I wasnted touse for splicing the shortsections. They also addressed straightening, giving a temperature at which the bondand strength would both be increased. Those I'd have to look up but I'msure they would respond if you contact them. The address I quoted is an old one but I believe still good. George Barnes from gwbarnes@biddeford.com Thu Jun 12 12:53:19 1997 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27959 for Subject: Re: Alternative glues At 11:16 AM 6/12/97 -0700, you wrote:Was at the local Boater's World last night looking for Resorcinol when Istarted talking with one of the employees who was a boatbuilder abouthisfavorite glue-- West Systems epoxy. He thinks this stuff is far superiortoanything he's used, including Resorcinol and Nyatex, mainly because itswater-thin and extremely flexible. He seemed to indicate that theflexibilityof this stuff would be perfectly suited to rod building. Also he said it islighter than anything he's tried--this really peaked my curiosity. Thelighterthe better, because a glue-heavy tip section changes rod actionconsiderably.Anyway the guy seemed real knowledgable and helpful and gave me lots ofinformation on the glue. There are several resin/hardener combinationswithvarying setup times. The 206 formula is the quickdry formula (15-20minutes)whereas the 209 has a working time of nearly an hour. The only drawbackIcouldsee with this stuff is the cost--about $50 for the resin and hardener inthe209 formula. Anyone heard of this stuff, or tried it on a rod? Don DeLoach P.S. Prices quoted are high compared to this area if you go with quart sizeon the resin. 206 hardener will give a pot life of 25 to 30 minutes at 70degrees. GWB from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Jun 12 14:12:32 1997 Subject: RE:Grayrock Hatch Update RO>I thought that those of you coming to Grayrock might appreciate astreamRO>conditions and hatch update. It follows below. RO>Steve Southard~~ You guys are making it very very hard to miss the outing - I really wishI could go this year. Enjoy and tight lines all, Don Burns from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jun 12 17:17:58 1997 Subject: Re: Alternative glues I hate to be argumentative - but remember you were talking to a boatbuilder and not a rod maker - his recommendation for the West Systemglue isonly leading you toward disappointment. The thermoset system 125/126of theWest system can be used for rods if you are willing to purchase theminimumquanities.The problem is the HDT (heat deflection temperature) of the gluingsystem105/209 system - It's great if you are building an AuSable river boat butnota bamboo fly rod. Wayne from nakayama@katri.kajima.co.jp Thu Jun 12 18:48:58 1997 (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.4W4) with ESMTP id IAA11040 for; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:48:30 +0900 (JST) SMTP id IAA02781 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 199708:48:29 +0900 (JST) katrigw.katri.kajima.co.jp (8.6.11+2.4W/3.4W3) with SMTP id IAA02168 1345963142==_============" Subject: Self introduction --============_-1345963142==_============ This is the first time for me to mail this mailing list. I introducemyself briefly. I am a Japanese amateur bamboo rod builder experienced 8years. I usually make 1 or 2 rods per year. I show you a latest rod whichwon the first prize of amateur bamboo rod building contest in 1997 . JPEGphoto of this rod is attached , so you can open and view it using browser.It is 4 pieces 6ft. 6in. #3 and no node. The materials of reel seat areelm and nickel silver.Please send your impression and advice to me. Minoru NakayamaMusashino-shi, TokyoJapan from wfenior@cris.com Thu Jun 12 19:31:14 1997 [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Subject: Re: Greyrock '97 Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum (some of you may have seen a couple posts from me acouple weeks ago...), and I've been doing a lot of lurking/learning. I'd like to meet you all this weekend, but my Mom is in Michigan for a visitand I'll be driving down to the Clarkston area. (Maybe I'll get a chance tocome up Sunday). Anyway, my son and I fished the South Branch of the AuSable Sunday night,sohere's my report on the river for all you guys coming up to fish. (Wefished down from Chase bridge road). Lots of sulfurs, generally size 16. Most of our fish were caught on spinnerimitaions. (all brookies).Mahogonies were falling at about 9:30 pm.We saw a lot of tan caddis, but the fish as far as I could tell were notkeying in on them. That's it! Its raining in Midland now, we're about an hour and a half from"the zone." Good luck to everyone this weekend, and maybe I'll get up tosee you all Sunday. There is a remote possibility that we'll fish tomarrownight, in which case I'll post another report. Wayne FeniorMidland, MI======================================---- ---------------------------------- wfenior@cris.com Wayne B. FeniorQuebecor Printing Pendell Inc.Electronic Prepress Technical Manager Extention 199 at:517-496-3333 - or -800-448-4288Fax:517-496-9165 World Wide Web Family Home Page:http://www.cris.com/~wfenior/ --------------------------------------- ======================================= from holmesr@mwr.kic.or.jp Thu Jun 12 19:37:44 1997 Subject: nodeless am trying to do a nodeless rod and am wondering if the splice bockis the 4 degree as mentioned in garrison/carmichael book, chris'ssplice block looks to be 8-12 degrees, any advice? wes parker okinawa, japan from wfenior@cris.com Thu Jun 12 19:41:57 1997 [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Straightening I've been reading the straightening posts and still have a question. What is everyone using for heat source? The Hoagy Carmichael book saystouse an alcohol lamp. (Haven't found one yet, and I did try one of the oilones with alcohol in it, but it kept burning out).Also tried the gas stove. That got the cane way to hot and soft, and I putan extra kink in. Also that delaminated a couple sections on the tip that Ihad to then fix. Wayne FeniorMidland MI from joannedgill@clear.net.nz Thu Jun 12 19:52:25 1997 orange.clear.net.nz (1.5/1.8) with ESMTP id MAA19009; Fri, 13 Jun 199712:52:18 +1200 (NZST) Subject: Re: nodeless HiPlease remove my name from the rodmakers mailing listThanksJoanne ----------From: REBECCA L. HOLMES Subject: nodelessDate: Saturday, 14 June 1997 04:32 am trying to do a nodeless rod and am wondering if the splice bockis the 4 degree as mentioned in garrison/carmichael book, chris'ssplice block looks to be 8-12 degrees, any advice? wes parker okinawa, japan from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jun 12 19:54:59 1997 Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:54:51 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: nodeless On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, REBECCA L. HOLMES wrote: am trying to do a nodeless rod and am wondering if the splice bockis the 4 degree as mentioned in garrison/carmichael book, chris'ssplice block looks to be 8-12 degrees, any advice? wes parker okinawa, japan Experiment a bit with the scarf angles. Too short a scarf will fail every time. I'm using about 1:20 and that works ok. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rclarke@eosc.osshe.edu Thu Jun 12 20:30:36 1997 Subject: Re: Straightening "Wayne Fenior" at Jun 12, 97 08:42:03 pm I've been reading the straightening posts and still have a question. What is everyone using for heat source? The Hoagy Carmichael book saystouse an alcohol lamp. (Haven't found one yet, and I did try one of the oilones with alcohol in it, but it kept burning out).Also tried the gas stove. That got the cane way to hot and soft, and I putan extra kink in. Also that delaminated a couple sections on the tip thatIhad to then fix. Wayne FeniorMidland MI Cabela's and Angler's Workshop both carry small alcohol lamps. I use mine for a number of different aspects of restoration. Don't know if it would work for your purposes. Robert Clarkerclarke@eosc.osshe.edu from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Jun 12 22:24:10 1997 Subject: Re: Straightening Wayne Fenior wrote: I've been reading the straightening posts and still have a question. What is everyone using for heat source? The Hoagy Carmichael book saystouse an alcohol lamp. (Haven't found one yet, and I did try one of the oilones with alcohol in it, but it kept burning out).Also tried the gas stove. That got the cane way to hot and soft, and I putan extra kink in. Also that delaminated a couple sections on the tip thatIhad to then fix. Wayne FeniorMidland MIUse a paint stripper type heat gun. You'll be glad that you did.John Zimny from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu Jun 12 22:37:53 1997 mailfep3-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Straightening Robert Clarke wrote: I've been reading the straightening posts and still have a question. What is everyone using for heat source? The Hoagy Carmichael booksays touse an alcohol lamp. (Haven't found one yet, and I did try one of the oilones with alcohol in it, but it kept burning out).Also tried the gas stove. That got the cane way to hot and soft, and Iputan extra kink in. Also that delaminated a couple sections on the tipthat Ihad to then fix. Wayne FeniorMidland MI I don't think anything can beat the dry, concentrated heat from a commonpaint stripping heat gun. Anything that can get hot enough to strippaint should do the job. I like to straighten my blanks (if they needit) without wearing any gloves. My 'unprotected' hands tell me quicklywhen the cane is getting up to temperature. Wearing gloves would notallow me to feel the heat, and then perhaps get into trouble withallowing the blank to get too hot. It's touch and go. But, with practiceyou'll soon get the knack. Joseph Loverti, Miamisburg, Ohio from mrj@seanet.com Thu Jun 12 23:36:40 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA00867 for Subject: Re: Self introduction Minoru Nakayama wrote: This is the first time for me to mail this mailing list. I introducemyself briefly. I am a Japanese amateur bamboo rod builder experienced8years. I usually make 1 or 2 rods per year. I show you a latest rod whichwon the first prize of amateur bamboo rod building contest in 1997 . JPEGphoto of this rod is attached , so you can open and view it using browser.It is 4 pieces 6ft. 6in. #3 and no node. The materials of reel seat areelm and nickel silver.Please send your impression and advice to me.Don't think I can give you any advice but what I saw of your rod lookedpretty good. What material did you use for the sliding band on the reelseat? It looked like wood in the photo. I would guess that you simplyeliminated the nodes and that there are no splices in this rod. Correct?Each section must be pretty short. I would guess that you didn't need tosplice.-- Martin Jensen from 102130.461@compuserve.com Fri Jun 13 00:07:49 1997 Subject: Grayrock BONUS Hatch Update Tonight [Thurs] was very pleasant in the north and more reports of browndrakes and decent fish feeding are rolling in. I thought that those of youheaded to Grayrock might appreciate this "bonus" hatchline update beforethe upcoming weekend. Steve Southard~~ www.troutbums. com "BONUS" FLY FACTORY E-MAIL HATCHLINE REPORT 6/13/97 MID-SEASON FLY-TYING WORKSHOP/DEMO SUNDAY, JUNE 15 Sam Surre will be demonstrating tying techniques for mid-season flies at the shop this coming Sunday, June 15 from mid-morning [about 10 AM until 2 or 3 in the afternoon]. Stop by if you'd like some fresh tying BROWN DRAKE ALERT! As indicated might be the case in Thursday morning's e-mail hatchline report, the brown drakes are coming! Drakes reported for three days now on the upper north branch; recent drake activity below Mio. Sporadic, light hatches of drakes on lower South Branch and lower Manistee [CCC-Sharon area]. Brown drake activity should become more generalized over the next few days and into next week. The forecast is pretty good - but things willcool down a little, so concerns that the hatch might get hot everywhere at once have been somewhat tempered. More nice fish moving with the warmer temps., 'tho not necessarily onlyonbrown drakes. Sam had another "run in" with a big brown taking the littleolives [#20] at dusk over on the Manistee this evening. One fish in atough lie PROMPTLY broke the 6x leader after rolling to take the olive. Bob Andrus reported several active "pods" of fish in the holy water - onegroup feeding on yellow stones that responded to dry yellow skunks skatedon the surface. Another pod went for #6 dry stones [stimulators] skatedonthe surface. Bob also saw good numbers of yellow stones and mahoganyspinners in the air below Wakeley Bridge. LATEST WEATHER OUTLOOKFri: partly sunny; upper 70's - 80Sat: mostly cloudy AM, partly sunny PM; lower 70'sSun: dry mid to upper 60's Mon: dry; mid to upper 60'sTue: dry; lower 70's from nakayama@katri.kajima.co.jp Fri Jun 13 03:39:24 1997 (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.4W4) with ESMTP id RAA29867 for; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 17:39:01 +0900 (JST) SMTP id RAA25987 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 199717:39:00 +0900 (JST) katrigw.katri.kajima.co.jp (8.6.11+2.4W/3.4W3) with SMTP id RAA15834 Subject: Re: Self introduction At 9:39 PM 97.6.12, Martin Jensen wrote:Minoru Nakayama wrote: This is the first time for me to mail this mailing list. I introducemyself briefly. I am a Japanese amateur bamboo rod builderexperienced 8years. I usually make 1 or 2 rods per year. I show you a latest rodwhichwon the first prize of amateur bamboo rod building contest in 1997 . JPEGphoto of this rod is attached , so you can open and view it usingbrowser.It is 4 pieces 6ft. 6in. #3 and no node. The materials of reel seat areelm and nickel silver.Please send your impression and advice to me. Don't think I can give you any advice but what I saw of your rod lookedpretty good. What material did you use for the sliding band on the reelseat? It looked like wood in the photo. I would guess that you simplyeliminated the nodes and that there are no splices in this rod. Correct?Each section must be pretty short. I would guess that you didn't need tosplice. Sliding band was made of nickel silver coverd with thin layler of elm.First making appropriate diameter of nickel silver band then adheringwoodblock with epoxy on it. Finaly lathe again to desired shape.You are correct. I only use bamboo between node and node. That is thereason why I made 6ft 6in 4 piece rod.Which amount of work do you like eliminating splice or making ferrure? Minoru NakayamaTokyo, Japan from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jun 13 04:27:52 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 1997 02:27:10 -0700 Subject: RE: Alternative glues 4.0.995.52 I've used that epoxy for building a few things for my boat and one thingthat I discovered is that it has a severe tendency to break down andcome apart when exposed to sunlight. I built a bow sprit for my boat,and had to glue up mahogany 1x3 to make up a 2x3, and after one year inthe sun here in Seattle, and we cut a calf on a rock when the sun comesout, the glue joint had completely failed and separated. Now whether ornot they've fixed that problem in the last 3 years since I used it ornot, I don't know but I would be terribly wary of using it to glue up arod. Patrick----------From: Don DeLoach[SMTP:d-deloach1@ti.com]Sent: Thursday, June 12, 1997 11:16 AM Subject: Alternative glues Was at the local Boater's World last night looking for Resorcinol when Istarted talking with one of the employees who was a boatbuilder abouthisfavorite glue-- West Systems epoxy. He thinks this stuff is far superiortoanything he's used, including Resorcinol and Nyatex, mainly because itswater-thin and extremely flexible. He seemed to indicate that theflexibilityof this stuff would be perfectly suited to rod building. Also he said it islighter than anything he's tried--this really peaked my curiosity. Thelighterthe better, because a glue-heavy tip section changes rod actionconsiderably.Anyway the guy seemed real knowledgable and helpful and gave me lots ofinformation on the glue. There are several resin/hardener combinationswithvarying setup times. The 206 formula is the quickdry formula (15-20minutes)whereas the 209 has a working time of nearly an hour. The only drawbackIcouldsee with this stuff is the cost--about $50 for the resin and hardener inthe209 formula. Anyone heard of this stuff, or tried it on a rod? Don DeLoach from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jun 13 05:11:37 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 1997 03:10:59 -0700 Subject: color preservative 4.0.995.52 What is the best color preservative to put on silk wraps beforevarnishing? I bought some elephant silk for my rod I'm making and I amhoping that I can coat it with something that will allow the color toremain the same after I varnish it that it is before varnishing. Patrick from wishbone@headwaters.com Fri Jun 13 06:32:11 1997 (5.65/1.1.8.2/17Feb97-0626PM) Subject: Re: Glues for ferrules Date: 26 May 1997 16:20:25 -0800 From: "Rich Margiotta" Subject: Glues for ferrules Subject: Time: 4:11 PMOFFICE MEMO Glues for ferrules Date: 5/26/97 Does anyone know how to obtain a glue made by Dow Corning called "urethane bond"? I have found this to be great stuff for attaching ferrulesbecause it sets up with slight expansion and stays flexible. BTW, do the new polyurethaneglues have these characteristics and could theybe used for attaching ferrules? --Rich Rich: Dow did discontinue this adhesive due to some ingredient that has posed some health concerns. It was brought back onto the market, however, because it was off the market for so long, most of the suppliers merely ignored it, it seemed. I believe it is still available, however, I have not purchased it myself in a couple of years. I think I still have some left, if you are interested, I will check my stock. I personally stopped using it, and prefer an epoxy called Rod Bond made by U- 40. Although urethane bond does expand, this is not necessarily of any advantage. Anytime you use any epoxy, it is important to ensure a complete coverage of the area to be epoxied. The other problem with urethane bond that I have heard from my discussions with chemists is that it has a relatively weak shear strength. It does have an advantage over epoxy in that there is no mixing, to be sure. Hope this is of some help,Regards, Ian H. ScottWishbone Custom Rods2 Henry St., R.R. #1Grand Valley, Ont.L0N 1G0 519-928-2906http://www.absolute-sway.com/wishbone "It is in men as in soils, where sometimes thereis a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."Jonothan Swift IAW from sal@ime.net Fri Jun 13 06:57:32 1997 Subject: West System Epoxy I noticed the comments on west system epoxy the other day.I have made about a dozen rods with it over the past few years. Have nothad any problem and I do heat straighten using a heat gun. It was recommended to me by a local rodmaker, Cecil Pierce , nowdeceased. He used it exclusively and sold his rods commercially. Mike Palumbo from sall@eol.ime.net Fri Jun 13 07:13:42 1997 Subject: New to the list Well here goes. I am new to the list and have been having troublegetting the server to identify me. I have been making rods for a fewyears. The forum here looks very interesting. I look forward to participatingin the discussions. Mike from sall@eol.ime.net Fri Jun 13 07:20:44 1997 Electronic MailMessage # Topic: New to the list I am new to the list and have been having trouble getting the server to The forum here looks very interesting. I look forward to participatingin the discussions. Mike from sall@eol.ime.net Fri Jun 13 07:22:44 1997 Patrick, I use a water based latex varnish for the color preservative over mysilk. Any hardware store should have it. The one I use is made byBenjamin Moore. I dilute it with water by 50% and put three coats on it. Mike from jsmm@interaccess.com Fri Jun 13 07:52:17 1997 HAA16451 for ; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 07:50:01 - Subject: First rod Yesterday I put the final coat of tung oil on my first rod! It's an 8'5wt. This has become a favorite past-time that started in January. I probablyspent a little more than seems reasonable on good tools, but I am veryhappy with the rod and since a carpenter always blames his tools that'swhat I'll do. Thank you to good tools, this list, Garrison's book, andmostly Wayne's book. I've been flyfishing for almost 15 years and havemoved away from the Pacific Northwest, this has been a great way to getback to the rivers. I learned a lot with this first rod and the two 3-wt's ready for finalplanning will definitely reflect what I gained from my first rod. Thanksagain to all. Matt Makowski from rfairfie@cisco.com Fri Jun 13 10:42:02 1997 IAA01061 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 13 Jun 1997 08:41:30 - 0700 Subject: Re: Straightening Wayne, I've used a heat gun and the edge of a burner on our electric stove.Both worked, but I think you have to be careful when using the stove. It'sdifficult for me to gauge temperature. Thanks,roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Jun 12 17:48:15 1997Date: Thu, 12 Jun 1997 20:42:03 -0400 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Wayne Fenior "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: StraighteningMime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: wfenior@mail.cris.comX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 2.2 (32)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent- Length: 467 I've been reading the straightening posts and still have a question. What is everyone using for heat source? The Hoagy Carmichael book saystouse an alcohol lamp. (Haven't found one yet, and I did try one of the oilones with alcohol in it, but it kept burning out).Also tried the gas stove. That got the cane way to hot and soft, and I putan extra kink in. Also that delaminated a couple sections on the tip thatIhad to then fix. Wayne FeniorMidland MI from maiello@yorku.ca Fri Jun 13 11:13:21 1997 (YiLYTMI+oG39Ch7CmoxoejBLNFrYINRn@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA18132 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: nodeless Hi there.I've built a few nodeless rods.The advantage of the 4 deg is the strength.The advantage of 8 deg. is the length.I think that for my next rod I will use 8 deg on the butt and 4 deg on thetip. I think 6 deg is fine if you only want to make one splicing jig.Mauro On Fri, 13 Jun 1997, REBECCA L. HOLMES wrote: am trying to do a nodeless rod and am wondering if the splice bockis the 4 degree as mentioned in garrison/carmichael book, chris'ssplice block looks to be 8-12 degrees, any advice? wes parker okinawa, japan from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jun 13 11:45:05 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 1997 09:39:53 -0700 Subject: COLOR PRESEVATIVE 4.0.995.52 I'm preparing the components of the bamboo rod I'm making and I waswondering what the general opinion,of the list, as to what is the bestcolor preservative for silk winding thread. I bought some burgundycolored elephant silk for my rod and I'm hoping that I can find a colorpreservative that works so that after I varnish the rod it's windingsare still burgundy. Patrick from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Jun 13 12:34:03 1997 Subject: RE:COLOR PRESEVATIVE RO> I bought some burgundyRO>colored elephant silk for my rod and I'm hoping that I can find a colorRO>preservative that works so that after I varnish the rod it's windingsRO>are still burgundy. Patrick, Lacquer as a preserver will give you almost the same color when dry. Dilute 50-50 with thinner for the 1st coat or 2. Then 100% lacquer forthe final coat. Thread's cheap. Wrap a piece of wood dowel with some wraps and tryseveral preservers over the thread - use the one you like on the rod. Don B. from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Fri Jun 13 14:20:06 1997 Subject: Colorado I realize this is not strickly about rodmaking, but: I'm headed to Breckenridge-area in Colorado: does anyone haverecommendations about where a rodmaker might fish in that area? Whatmight begood flies to take along etc. Thanks, -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Jun 13 16:27:52 1997 Subject: Re: West System Epoxy At 08:16 AM 13/06/97 -0700, you wrote:I noticed the comments on west system epoxy the other day.I have made about a dozen rods with it over the past few years. Have nothad any problem and I do heat straighten using a heat gun. It was recommended to me by a local rodmaker, Cecil Pierce , nowdeceased. He used it exclusively and sold his rods commercially. Mike Palumbo I have not used west system in rod building but would make a generalcommentregarding epoxy glues from my use of glues in the business of makinglaminated timber beams . Firstly epoxy glues will soften when heated evensome months after being used . This may have some advantages for rodbuilding but can also lead to problems . By comparision resornal glues willtend to harden or cure faster if heated . Secondly the epoxy glues have anability to "bridge " gaps whereas resornal needs a close matching of thesurfaces to be glued . This may not be so important given the closetolerences in rodbuilding . regards IankIan Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from Global2u@aol.com Fri Jun 13 17:34:53 1997 Subject: Re: Colorado Take the float trip on the Eagle river, by Beaver Creek. It is terrific. from wfenior@cris.com Fri Jun 13 17:36:22 1997 [1-800-745-2747 The Concentric Network] Subject: Re: Colorado Hi Mark, I just got back from out there. I fished the Frying Pan at the dam withvery good success. About 15 rainbows, the smallest was about 20". I usedabunch of the micro pattern that they sold to me out there, but they didn'twork. Instead, I caught most of my fish on olive caddis nymphs, size 8-10, inpatterns like we use on the Pere Marquette. Other patterns usefull around the dam would be mysis shrimp, which Ifoundto be in fair abundance. The lower pan was pretty high, as was the Roaring Fork, and the Eagleriver.Most of them may be high till July I just read in one report. Good Luck!!! Wayne FeniorMidland MI HAt 03:20 PM 6/13/1997 -0400, Mark M Freed wrote:I realize this is not strickly about rodmaking, but: I'm headed to Breckenridge-area in Colorado: does anyone haverecommendations about where a rodmaker might fish in that area? Whatmight begood flies to take along etc. Thanks, -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu ======================================-------------------------------- ------ wfenior@cris.com Wayne B. FeniorQuebecor Printing Pendell Inc.Electronic Prepress Technical Manager Extention 199 at:517-496-3333 - or -800-448-4288Fax:517-496-9165 World Wide Web Family Home Page:http://www.cris.com/~wfenior/ --------------------------------------- ======================================= from sall@eol.ime.net Fri Jun 13 18:34:59 1997 Subject: two handed rods I would like to make a 13 foot or so two handed rod to fish some of thelarger rivers here.Does anyone have a taper they would be willing to share. Mike from sall@eol.ime.net Fri Jun 13 18:38:10 1997 Subject: lie nielson scraper I have been receiving the postings but unable to reply for a few daysand saw the postings about the lie nielson scraper plane. To therodmaker who just bought one: it works extremely well for flattening thenodes. You need to straighten them first. Set the plane to take off 5thousanths or so and you will have a perfectly flat node in a fewminutes. Mike from mrj@seanet.com Fri Jun 13 18:49:14 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA28829 for Subject: Re: Self introduction Minoru Nakayama wrote:Sliding band was made of nickel silver coverd with thin layler of elm.First making appropriate diameter of nickel silver band then adheringwoodblock with epoxy on it. Finaly lathe again to desired shape.You are correct. I only use bamboo between node and node. That is thereason why I made 6ft 6in 4 piece rod.Which amount of work do you like eliminating splice or making ferrure? Very interesting on the sliding band. Have you used this design long? Iam curious as to how well it holds up. It sure is attractive.I was taught to press the nodes and straighten the sections. I have beenbuilding about 3 years now and I have my hands full just getting mytolerances down and numerous other small details (like a decent finish).It will be some time before I try to do a node less rod as I amcomfortable with nodes at this point. My next rod I do plan on makinghollow though. It will be an 8.5 footer and I want to lighten it a bit.Martin Jensen from sall@eol.ime.net Sat Jun 14 04:55:35 1997 Subject: Morley Bros My brother picked up a two handed rod made by "Morley Brothers". Iintend to refinish it.Does anyone know where and when it was made ? I have never heard ofthem. It has an unusual cork grip . The cork appears to be a sheet that waswrapped around the rod handle. Mike from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jun 14 08:05:02 1997 Subje