from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jul 1 06:39:18 1997 MAA21238 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:45:44+0100 Subject: The Makers Rod Wayne and others. I wouldn't want to impose anything of my own manufacture onto you, but....if you don't mind a small British input into what sounds like a trulysplendid all- American effort, I could donate a vintage real agate innickel-silver stripper guide (we would call this a butt ring, but thatno-doubt has rude connotations for you chaps). I have some small 1920Hardysthat might be suitable. They're exquisitly made. I don't have many (and I don't want to sell any) but if I have a size thatwould suit, I'll post it to you. What size would you like to use.Unfortunately, I don't have matching tip tops (tip rings in Britishparlance,) but I suspect that in any event you would consider an agate atthe tip to be too heavy for a little rod's action. I will not be offended if you would prefer to use something else. John Cooper (England) from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jul 1 06:39:20 1997 MAA21265 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 12:45:57+0100 Subject: Extreme temperature kilns. But firstly - Soggy Rods. This thread has provided a huge amount of information, both empirical andscientifically 'proven'. Thank's to everyone who contributed. Extreme temperature kilns. My fishing chum and I have recently acquired ( from the R and D departmentofan electronics company) a surplus high temperature kiln. This is by nomeansthe sort of thing into which one might put wood - other than for thepurposeof reducing it to carbon dust. I believe it can be set to achieve somethingover 1000Ÿ but maybe I'm just thinking in hyperbole. Anyway, it's the sortof kiln that's used for small quantity experiments. The chamber size isabout 8" x 6" x 6". It runs on household single phase AC. 220v. , but Isuspect will put quite a strain on the national grid when we crank it up.Shares in the local Electricity Company have risen 20 points inanticipationof my experiments. I was wondering whether it could be used in conjunction with specialpaintsor sprays to re-finish rod components, or perhaps vintage reelcomponents. Ialso have a couple of very pretty fly boxes that were once enamel coated,but now too sad to use. A chum of mine suggested that the kiln might be used to set a powdercoatingre-finish on reels, or to bake a new enamel coat onto the fly boxes. Thissounds like a good idea, because straight re-paints with standard air-cureenamels have proven to be too soft to last. This is clearly not a game for fools; other than those who want to reducetheir aluminium reels to crucible-shaped aluminium ingots. At presentneither of us has a clue where to start, so we're doing nothing. Thematerials required, the pre-coating preparation, application, bakingtimes/temperatures - they're all unknown quantities to us. All we have isakiln that goes up to silly numbers, and the thought that something thatoriginally cost £3,000 ($5,000) MUST be useful for something to do withourfishing passions. I'd be grateful for some informed advice from anyone who has experienceofthese processes. John Cooper (England) from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jul 1 07:37:50 1997 Subject: Re: Superheavy fly rods (greater than 10 wts) George - Excuse me for butting into this discussion, but I am curious howyoumade out with your 4 vs 5 vs 6 set. Did you get it done in time for theOntario gathering? I'm afraid I have no tapers for heavier rods, but fromwhat I have seen, I would certainly agree with your decision to hollowbuild. from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jul 1 08:09:35 1997 Subject: Re: Extreme temperature kilns. John - I'm afraid I cannot help you with fired enamels or powder coat, butifyou can operate in the 600- 700 degree Farenheight range, you can turnstainless guides to a deep bronze color. Just leave them in for an hour andair cool. This does not affect their temper or corrosion resistance. It willwork only with 300 series stainless guides, not chrome plated. In thiscountry, The inexpensive guides are all 300 series stainless. If you getmuchabove 800 degrees, you risk ruining the corrosion resistance. -- Tom from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Tue Jul 1 08:13:26 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA116 Subject: Re: Superheavy fly rods (greater than 10 wts) From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: Superheavy fly rods (greater than 10 wts) George - Excuse me for butting into this discussion, but I am curioushow youmade out with your 4 vs 5 vs 6 set. Did you get it done in time for theOntario gathering? I'm afraid I have no tapers for heavier rods, but fromwhat I have seen, I would certainly agree with your decision to hollowbuild. Hi Tom, Didn't quite get finished because of a slight setback in my heat treating oven. I carbonized the first run, so I had to start all over. For the second run I made 2 sets of 4,5,6 sided rods (blond and flamed). These I brought to the gathering varnished but no guides. This is how they have remained, although they should be complete by the end of this month, although we are expecting an addition to our family in the next 4 weeks so who hows... With any luck I will be coming to the Catskills gathering and I should be bringing them complete for casting. P.S. Bill Fink, my preliminary thoughts are that the 5 sided rods holdthe greatest potential. Jorge from delaney@acc.mcneese.edu Tue Jul 1 08:35:38 1997 IAA27821; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 08:35:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Superheavy fly rods (greater than 10 wts) I'd also be interested in whatever taper you come up with. Mark in LA On Mon, 30 Jun 1997 Canerods@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-06-29 22:10:29 EDT, you write: Date: 97-06-29 22:10:29 EDTFrom: JorgeCarcao@myna.com (Jorge Carcao)Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu There was a posting a while back requesting a 12 wt taper. I am wondering if anyone responded or if anyone might have something to start from. If not, my thought is to modify a heavy Steelhead/salmonrodtaper to take a size 21 ferrule (really) and a 7 tip top. I will post this laterif anyone wants this taper sometime this fall. Does anyone have a Paul Young "Powerhouse" taper (9'6" 10 wt) or the "Florida Special" (9'0" 9wt) Jorge Carcao@myna.com Jorge, I wonder if this should be designed as a double-built rod? Maybe someonehasa Cross rod that could be copied? Don B. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jul 1 10:08:33 1997 Subject: Re: Extreme temperature kilns. In a message dated 97-07-01 07:47:51 EDT, you write: I'd be grateful for some informed advice from anyone who has experienceofthese processes. My other hobby is jewelry making. I have a kiln that goes up to 2500 deg. F. You can use this kiln for lost wax casting or enameling. You can cast fancy sterling silver (or gold) butt caps, sliding rings, or perhaps the reel seat. Enameling is really powdered glass which is melted on to the surface of an object. Cloissonee (I think that is the right spelling) is a fancy form of enameling using sterling wire arranged artistically along with the powderedglass. Darryl Hayashida from JCZIMNY@dol.net Tue Jul 1 10:23:10 1997 Subject: Re: Extreme temperature kilns. TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: John - I'm afraid I cannot help you with fired enamels or powder coat,but ifyou can operate in the 600- 700 degree Farenheight range, you can turnstainless guides to a deep bronze color. Just leave them in for an hourandair cool. This does not affect their temper or corrosion resistance. Itwillwork only with 300 series stainless guides, not chrome plated. In thiscountry, The inexpensive guides are all 300 series stainless. If you getmuchabove 800 degrees, you risk ruining the corrosion resistance. -- TomTom, Is the wire obtainable? Does it need to be tempered to be usable asguides?John from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jul 1 11:05:04 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.7.6/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA27825 for; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:11:44 +0100 Subject: Re: Extreme temperature kilns. In a message dated 97-07-01 07:47:51 EDT, you write: I'd be grateful for some informed advice from anyone who hasexperience ofthese processes. My other hobby is jewelry making. I have a kiln that goes up to 2500 deg. F. You can use this kiln for lost wax casting or enameling. You can cast fancy sterling silver (or gold) butt caps, sliding rings, or perhaps the reel seat. Enameling is really powdered glass which is melted on to the surface of an object. Cloissonee (I think that is the right spelling) is a fancy form of enameling using sterling wire arranged artistically along with the powderedglass. Darryl Hayashida Good Grief Darryl, You seem to have answers to all my questions. What do you do in yourSPARE time? The prospect of being able to cast sliding rings and butt caps fills mewithhope. I have the Devil's own job finding the sorts I need, so provided it'snot too dangerous, and I can find the required materials, I'll certainly beup for a go at that. If the subject is not too complicated, and assuming the use of aluminiumorbrass (solid gold would be considered to be in the worst possible taste)howdo I proceed? I have valuable (rather than sacrificial) originals to use aspatterns - if that helps. ________________ Tom, Thank's for the stainless steel thought. In the past I have done this bysuspending in the chimney of a wood burning stove - and with somesuccesstoo. I noticed the effect when the stainless chimney of the burner bronzeditself. I'm hoping someone knows about re-finishing vintage reel spools - and thelike. John Cooper (England) from 76250.1771@CompuServe.COM Tue Jul 1 11:16:04 1997 Subject: Superweight Rods Jorge-I don't have the tapers you asked for but I do have the 9' Texas General8/9wt. If you'd like that taper let me know and I'll post it. Dennis from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jul 1 11:40:06 1997 RAA28707 for ; Tue, 1 Jul 1997 17:46:45+0100 Subject: British rodmakers reply Hans Wrote: Hi John, You may remember we had an exchange of mail some weeks ago regardingthe 'ranking' of British builders. Now while I only have first hand knowledge of Tom Moran's products, I didaskaround regarding the two other builders you mentioned. General concensus which came back was rating Tom still as best Britishbuilder.A fact which appears to be supported by the value of used rods in (US)catalogs,where Tom Moran rods command the highest price of any living canebuilder,including US producers. And more specifically, I have a friend who has made the planing forms fortwo,and the wrapping tool for the third builder, stated Tom is still 'the man' ;-) Your chance for rebuttal (id you so wish) Cheers,Hans ====================== You have friends in Low Places=======================Hans Weilenmann, The Netherlands Hans If I had unlimited money to buy any fly rod from a British maker, I wouldbuy from Edward Barder in Newbury, even though, in my experience, he'soneof the most 'difficult' and sometimes 'ornery' blighters in the rod-makingworld. He can also be charming. He also makes rods you would kill yourGrandmother for. Forget the American ratings for British rods, they are not correct. Atleast, they do not reflect the perfection of each rod: only its marketvalue. If you believe a rod is to be judged only on its market value, ratherthan (also) as a fishing tool, well ...... I am not saying that Tom Moran's rods are bad. I'm sure Barder himselfwouldbe the first to say they are superb. What I'm saying, is that Barder's arethe best. I don't think Barder has built many rods for America. Once the rods areseenand tried there, the demand will push his prices off the scale. they'realready too much for me, and he's already got a huge waiting list (and ahuge self-belief to go with it). Try both. See which you prefer. But remember when at some time in thefutureyou are on a five year list for a $4,000 Barder rod - I told you so. John Cooper (England) from MCALWILL@FS.isu.edu Tue Jul 1 11:41:00 1997 SMTP (8.7.5/8.7.3) id KAA09258 for ; Tue, 1 Tue, 1 Jul 97 10:45:25 -0600 0600 Subject: Confirmation of your message. Confirmation: message read at 10:40, 1 Jul 1997Subject: Re: Superheavy fly rods (greater than 10 wts) from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jul 1 12:15:07 1997 Subject: Re: Extreme temperature kilns. In a message dated 7/1/97 3:31:54 PM, you wrote: John - What I was suggesting was starting with a commercially madeguide, butyes, the material is available. It would need to be tempered, as stainlessina soft condition would easily deform, and wear out quickly, also. I wouldsuggest stainless music wire, which is an extra hard drawn temper. Thisshould be fairly easy to come by. The 600 degree treatment is a stressrelief, which will "set" the material in it's present form. It should be doneafter the guides are formed. You may also get a slight hardnessimprovement.Keep in mind that 300 series stainless will wear faster than the newercoated guides. I would not use it on a rod that will see heavy service. Ifyou are doing a restoration, and don't have a bronze guide, this methodoffers an alternative. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jul 1 14:33:47 1997 Subject: Re: Extreme temperature kilns. In a message dated 97-07-01 12:12:20 EDT, you write: If the subject is not too complicated, and assuming the use ofaluminiumorbrass (solid gold would be considered to be in the worst possible taste)howdo I proceed? I have valuable (rather than sacrificial) originals to useaspatterns - if that helps. You'll have to make a rubber mold of the original, and inject aspecial type of wax. The wax model is then imbedded in what they call "investment" cast. It really is just a type ofplaster that can take the high heat. The cast is then heatedin the kiln, the wax is melted out - hence the name "lost waxcasting" and metal is then either injected into the mold ordrawn in with a vacuum (notice I had the vacuum equipmentlying around to try the impregnation experiment). If you reallydon't want to get into it yourself, give me a holler. I have thestuff to do it already. Nickel silver is one of the standard metalsused in casting jewelry. I still think 14 kt gold would make astunning reel seat. The originals usually aren't affected at all, but they do have to be separate. They can't be copied still attached to the rod. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jul 1 19:18:50 1997 Wed, 2 Jul 1997 08:18:39 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Extreme temperature kilns. On Tue, 1 Jul 1997, John Cooper wrote: I'm hoping someone knows about re-finishing vintage reel spools - andthe like. John Cooper (England) John,try contacting JW Young in Redditch. I had reason to contact them recently about a reel and they were extremly helpful. Even though the company is no longer family owned, I think it is still run by the original family members.If you do contact them you might like to ask for their historical folder which has old advertisments etc of the original reels. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Tue Jul 1 20:59:59 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA123 Subject: Re: Superweight Rods Date: 01 Jul 97 12:14:09 EDT From: dennis higham Subject: Superweight Rods Jorge-I don't have the tapers you asked for but I do have the 9' Texas General8/9wt. If you'd like that taper let me know and I'll post it. Dennis Hi Dennis, I originally started my research with the Texas General 9/9'6" in the taper directory for an 8/9 has a 18/64 ferrule, a size 6 1/2 tip top.However, the Texas General according to the Young catalog is an 8'6"with a 16/64 ferrule a size 6 tip top. In fact according to the catalog the rod in the taper directory sounds like the "Florida Special". If you have a different taper I would appreciate recieving it. My question then is, whether you know who the real Texas General is? & casts a 7 wt line. The posted taper from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed Jul 2 15:37:31 1997 with ESMTP id PAA12820 for ; Wed, 2 Jul dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id TMULBGCN; Wed,2 Jul 1997 15:36:56 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Re: Tung Oil Can anyone give me the URL for Constantine? Thanks Don D ------------------Original text Don DeLoach wrote: Has anyone used Behr Scandanavian Tung Oil? It was the only brandavailableatmy local Home Depot. By the way Home Depot did not carry Recorcinol.Anyothersuggestions on where to look? Thanks,Don D.get on line and go to constintine's web site... they will have thetools,glues,ect that you want. Bryant C. from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed Jul 2 15:56:15 1997 with ESMTP id PAA05962 for ; Wed, 2 Jul dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id WGUFCQBQ; Wed,2 Jul 1997 15:55:41 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: ferrule glues Anyone use anything besides Urethane Bond? I'm having trouble finding itlocally. Thanks,Don from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Jul 2 15:57:49 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA111756968; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 13:56:08 -0700 Subject: Constantine's Website Don, I think this is it. http://www.constantines.com/ Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jonrc@atlantic.net Wed Jul 2 18:11:34 1997 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA05141 for; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:22:41 -0400 rio.atlantic.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id TAA14597 for; Wed, 2 Jul 1997 19:11:26 -0400 Subject: Re: ferrule glues Don DeLoach wrote: Anyone use anything besides Urethane Bond? I'm having trouble finding itlocally. Thanks,Don Don, I've been usung Devcon 2-ton epoxy with no problems. Classic Sportring Ent, is selling a hot glue ferrule cement called"Ferr-L-Tite". But I haven't tried it yet, so I can't report any resultsas yet.-- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water. Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Wed Jul 2 22:02:04 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA138 Subject: Re: ferrule glues Date: Wed, 2 Jul 1997 15:55:40 -0700 From: Don DeLoach Subject: ferrule glues Anyone use anything besides Urethane Bond? I'm having trouble finding itlocally. Thanks,Don Hi Don, Try Home Depot, look for "Probond" it is a urethane glue, same composition as Urethane bond. It dries a transluscent tan rather than clear transluscent which was the original Urethane Bond colour. Jorge from penr0295@uidaho.edu Thu Jul 3 00:12:03 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id WAA17920 for ; doing -bs Subject: Stanley Planes Looking through the William Alden Woodworking catalog, I see that theStanley 9 1/2 plane they carry is a model number 12920, whereas themodelnumber I have most often seen recommended for a current Stanley "9 1/2"block plane is 12020. The catalog says that the 12920 has a 21 degreecutter angle, and has a 6 1/4" base (throat is adjustable). Is this what Iam looking for? Also, I am considering the 9 1/2 plane made by Record. Stanley? Finally, I may go all out and order a Lie-Nielsen 212. The LNwebsite lists it as "No. 212 Bronze or Iron Scraper Plane". They do notelaborate on this "bronze or iron" description, and if there is in fact achoice between a bronze or iron body, is one better than the other for ourpurposes? Thomas Penrose from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jul 3 01:11:09 1997 Thu, 3 Jul 1997 14:10:53 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Stanley Planes I could be wrong, but I think apart from the different "heft" of the bronze, the bronze wont rust. Tony Stanley? Finally, I may go all out and order a Lie-Nielsen 212. The LNwebsite lists it as "No. 212 Bronze or Iron Scraper Plane". They do notelaborate on this "bronze or iron" description, and if there is in fact achoice between a bronze or iron body, is one better than the other for ourpurposes? Thomas Penrose /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 3 01:57:17 1997 Subject: Re: Superheavy fly rods - Use a stress curve In a message dated 97-07-03 02:41:57 EDT, you write: Because this rod will be approx. .450" at the butt, I should be able to find a suitable culm. Although I intend on using the thickest walled cane I can find, surely I will hollow it. Specifically I am concerned that this rod will end up being a club that fights fish O.K. but casts poorly. Rather than trial and error, if anyone has any ideas I am open to suggestions. Otherwise, everyone will have to wait and see this fall. This is where a stress curve design would be a good place to start.If you want me to take a crack at it let me know. There are a fewthings I would need to know first, though. What is the actual weightof the footage of line you would cast on average, the weight of thetip top, the weight of the guides, and the weight of the ferrule. Anotherthing I would need to know is what type of action you would want.Fast, slow, parabolic, or ? Darryl Hayashida from Jerry.Snider@UC.Edu Thu Jul 3 08:29:18 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: Re: soggy rods I enter this discussion with great trepidation, but here goes. As a plantanatomist, I often place woody tissues in a vacuum to help infiltratetissue fixatives and paraffin wax more easily in difficult tissues to besectioned later. I would not even think of using pressure. The purpose isto pull out all of the air/moisture in the tissues and replace these withthe fixative, and then later with paraffin. Perhaps this helps?At 10:10 AM 6/25/97 -0500, you wrote:Darryl seez... A little while back we had a discussion on immersing a blankin tung oil and then pulling a vacuum on it to drive the tung oilinside the rod. My "drain the varnish" dip tube lends itself nicelyto this process, and I have tried it on a scrap piece of gluedup blank. ... Darryl used a vacuum, and I've heard of others using pressure. I was wondering if one method has any advantages over the other?In a recent article in _The Planing Form_ on resin inpregnation,the author used a combination of both...according to the author,the vacuum to open the pores of the cane, followed by pressureto force the resins into the opened pores. Anyone out there have further thoughts on the process... Mike - in a vacuum - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Jerry SniderTrout Grouch from pjmraz@ibm.net Thu Jul 3 11:26:41 1997 ; Thu, 3 Jul 1997 16:26:26 GMT Subject: Re: Stanley Planes Thomas Penrose wrote: Looking through the William Alden Woodworking catalog, I see that theStanley 9 1/2 plane they carry is a model number 12920, whereas themodelnumber I have most often seen recommended for a current Stanley "91/2"block plane is 12020. The catalog says that the 12920 has a 21 degree cutter angle, and has a 6 1/4" base (throat is adjustable). Is thiswhat Iam looking for? Also, I am considering the 9 1/2 plane made byRecord. Stanley? Finally, I may go all out and order a Lie-Nielsen 212. TheLNwebsite lists it as "No. 212 Bronze or Iron Scraper Plane". They donotelaborate on this "bronze or iron" description, and if there is infact achoice between a bronze or iron body, is one better than the other forourpurposes? Thomas Penrose Thomas, I have both the Stanley and the Record planes. The stanley appearsheavier in hand, but the Record plane is my favorite of the two. Itjust feels more comfortable to me. P.J. from penr0295@uidaho.edu Thu Jul 3 11:52:52 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id JAA26058 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Stanley Planes I ordered a Lie-Nielsen 212 this morning, and the person at LN said thatit was available with an iron body because some folks prefer their planesto be made of this more traditional material. I was also told that thereshould be no difference in durability between the two. I think that thebronze one was more hefty though, and as Tony said, it has the advantageof corrosion resistance. I opted for bronze. Thomas Penrose On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Tony Young wrote: I could be wrong, but I think apart from the different "heft" of the bronze, the bronze wont rust. from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jul 3 13:45:33 1997 Subject: Re: Superheavy fly rods (greater than 10 wts) Jorge, I just remembered something - The Classic Angler had a 12' - ?? wt.MontagueManitou (Monty's best quality model) (3/2) listed some time ago. Quite anunusual rod. It was listed for several issues of the list, if I recall correctly. I wonderif you could find out who bought it and get the taper from them? EmailDickSpurr and maybe he would help you out. Don Burns Flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com or canerods@aol.com from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Jul 3 16:35:43 1997 with ESMTP id QAA11416 for ; Thu, 3 Jul dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id MJVKBIAK; Thu,3 Jul 1997 16:35:08 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: lathe RPM Everyone, What is the recommended RPM for turning ferrule stations and corkhandles? ThanksDon D. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jul 3 18:37:29 1997 Fri, 4 Jul 1997 07:37:12 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: lathe RPM On Thu, 3 Jul 1997, Don DeLoach wrote: Everyone, What is the recommended RPM for turning ferrule stations and corkhandles? ThanksDon D. Turn the ferrule stations at a dead slow speed. I've found that if you bind the blank tightly just below the end you're turning you can use the dead center of the lathe. Chuck the blank with the station you're cutting as close as possible to the jaws. I cut a hole small enough to accept which ever end is poking through the headstock in a piece of pine and possition it in such a way that the blank is supported by it to prevent wipping while turning the blank. Corks han be turned at what ever speed you feel comfortable with. RPM wise, I guess that'd be for ferrule stations: Not very many RPMHandles: Lots of RPM. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Thu Jul 3 20:53:48 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA165 Subject: (Fwd) Probond Glue ------- Forwarded Message Follows ------- Subject: Probond GluePriority: normal Probond is made by Elmers Products, Inc (Columbus, OH). Like Urethane bond it expands, so make sure whatever you are gluing is secure (clamp, tape or elastic band it down so it doesn't move). You can use acetone to clean off stuff the expands out - very clean. I have used it for reelseats & cork handles. This stuff really expands so be cautious. I bought my first bottle in Detroit, MI at Builder's Square because it was new and I hadn't seen Urethane Bond for a few years. A few months later I noticed that Home Depot has it here in Canada in 8 oz & 32 oz sizes about $7 & $13 respectively. Urethane bond came in these horrible tubes, an "eye" screw served as the capand you got tendonitus dispensing the stuff. The new stuff comes in a regular squeeze bottle, is less viscous & dries into the same stuff. from sall@eol.ime.net Thu Jul 3 20:57:49 1997 Subject: To Mike Biondo Mike I am getting duplicate postings and can't get off the list. I triedthe command but it doesn't work. I know what I did wrong when I joined.I am on there twice sal and sall@eol.ime.net can you take me off and Iwill rejoin. Thanks Mike from pwillen1@swarthmore.edu Fri Jul 4 00:57:36 1997 oak.cc.swarthmore.edu with SMTP id BAA11244 Fri, 4 Jul 1997 01:57:33 - Subject: Black marks on old cane rod I am restoring an old can rod and it has dark black stains where theguides where rapped. They are not rot but seem to be deep in the wood.Does anyone know how to get these out? thanks, Tight Lines,Paul M. Willenbergpwillen1@swarthmore.eduhttp://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/~pwillen1/lit/http://www.sccs.swarthmore.edu/org/deltaups/-_-_-_-_-_-_- _-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-_-Flies have a strong, marvelous power, and each is meaningful as apoint ofcontact with nature. Embodied in the fly is a message that reflects thetyer's point of view about nature. By creating an enduring fly, you conveyyour message to future fly fishers. ~Nori Tashiro from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jul 4 10:13:09 1997 Subject: Re: Stanley Planes Thomas -The options for the '9 1/2' plane are the Record 9 1/2 and the Stanley012 - 920 (old stock # 012-020). The Record is of the original designusing apinwheel to make blade adjustments. The Stanley has a new designturnboltsystem of blade adjustment. The pinwheel moves a lever arm that movestheblade - the turnbolt is more direct. The example of the original 9 1/2 thatIhave is an original stanley that my grandfather had and could be worn inthisarea. My preferance is the new Stanley version - it seems more direct. TheStanley is heavier and you might like that as well. Locally (Casnovia) Ihavepurchased the plane at Builder's Square II - cost $36.82. Either will needtobe tuned in ( flatten sole and such).Tom originally made the #212 in a steel version then switched to thebronze cast body - I have both - both work the same but the steel is soldfora few dollars less. The sole of the scraper is flat on arrivial but - theblade is shaped to a rather blunt angle - because this angle is hard tosharpen I switch it to a 30 degree so that I only sharpen to one angle forboth plane and scraper - the burrs are removed as well. Wayne from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Jul 4 11:37:34 1997 Subject: Re: Superheavy fly rods - Use a stress curve In a message dated 7/4/97 10:35:33 AM, you wrote: Jorge and Darryl - If I were designing a heavy rod, I would definitelyconsider a slower action. A fast taper in a long, heavy rod demands apowerful response from the caster's wrist, and few have the strength tofishsuch a rod for any length of time. from Leessinker@aol.com Fri Jul 4 23:14:28 1997 Subject: Re: Stanley Planes Wayne ,While still in the process of convincing myself that I can do this I'vestarted collecting the tools.Question- picked up a Stanley 60 -1/2 (G12- 060) thinking that I wasgettingthe 9-1/2 that is recommended. The 60-1/2 is identcal feature wise i.e.adjustable thoat, lever cam, depth adjusting screw,lateral adjustingscrewetc.,it is 1/4 in. shorter and blade width is 1/4 in. narrower. It is a lowangle block plane but shows a blade angle of 13-1/2 . Can I use this planeordid I waste my money?Thx Dewayne from maiello@yorku.ca Sat Jul 5 11:59:56 1997 (zzGQLWOdnZ9VUrHp6z6+zKxJ/RpkVRbW@sunspot.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA08676 for ; doing -bs Subject: Hawaii Hi there.Is there anyone from Hawaii on the list?Please contact me off list.Thanks in advance.Mauro from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Jul 5 18:26:32 1997 Subject: Catskill Gathering? To The List, 7/5/97Yes I'm still alive, just fishing a lot. Would like to know if a CatskillGathering is in the works so we can get reservations etc. Hendricksons aregone but we still have Tricos and ants. Wish you midwesterners wouldsend ussome of that rain. We are running out of water. Bill from Maver7@aol.com Sun Jul 6 09:08:41 1997 Subject: rodmaking 101 I am interested in making fishing rods but i am unsure where to start. Iamlooking for information on suplliers, or sources of imformation. Also,whatare the basic tools needed to get started. Anyone replying I thank you verymuch from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sun Jul 6 09:25:21 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id HAA10544 for ; doing -bs Subject: Lathe question I have been looking for a used metal lathe that I could use to turnferrule stations, grips, and eventually use to turn real seat components(primarily for trout rods, but I would prefer a lathe with the capacity towork with larger rods as well). What diameter hole through the headstockwould I need to fit most all rod sizes? Minimum distance betweencenters?Any reason to avoid using the same lathe for both metal and wood turning?I would appreciate any recommendations concerning brands, models,specs,and etc. Thomas Penrose from maiello@yorku.ca Mon Jul 7 10:02:43 1997 (gZpB4KUPnkdof/xzGD9PI4yZ2cnDioeL@sunrise.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA02134 for ; doing -bs Subject: test test from HARRY@wacbhs.tstc.edu Mon Jul 7 10:19:02 1997 7 Jul 97 10:18:50 CST6CDT CST6CDT Subject: Re: To Mike Biondo Date sent: Thu, 3 Jul 1997 21:58:32 -0500 From: sall@eol.ime.net Subject: To Mike Biondo Mike I am getting duplicate postings and can't get off the list. I triedthe command but it doesn't work. I know what I did wrong when I joined.I am on there twice sal and sall@eol.ime.net can you take me off and Iwill rejoin. Thanks Mike I'm having the same problem that Mike is having, duplicate postings and can't get off the list. Tried the command - didn't work. Can anyone help? > > from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Jul 7 10:26:18 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA139469077; Mon, 7 Jul 1997 08:24:37 -0700 Subject: RE: Black marks on old cane rod Paul, I have used bleach. Sometimes I can remove or lighten the dark marks by applying the bleach with a cloth and a lot of elbow grease. It doesn't always work. The best remedy is to wrap the rod as original and hopefully your new guides and wraps will cover the old marks. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from GAM@mssmtpgate.housing.umich.edu Mon Jul 7 11:30:20 1997 runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.3) mssmtpgate.housing.umich.eduwith Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 07 Jul 1997 12:30:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Superweight Rods -Reply I have a 12' two handed spey rod with approx. the size ferrules and topyou mentioned. If you want the tapers from that let me know. It may be astart. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jul 7 12:44:23 1997 Subject: Philadelphia (Ft Washington) Show This is a FYI - This next weekend (saturday) Angler's Art is having aBook Fair (Show) at Ft Washington - Barry asked me out but there is noofficial workshop - I will however have tools and bamboo on hand foranyoneinterested in hands on help. Another 28 hour DriveWayne from Leessinker@aol.com Tue Jul 8 01:00:08 1997 Subject: STANLEY WHO , LOOKING FOR PLANE ANSWERS RECENTLY WENT SCROUNGING IN MY FATHERS GARAGE AND FOUND AN OLDSTANLEY , THEONLY ID ON THE PLANE WAS A SW ENCLOSED IN A HEART THE PATENT DATEREAD2-18-13 . THIS PLANE HAS AN ADJUSTABLE THROAT , PIN WHEELADJUSTMENT , ANDLATERAL ADJUSTMENT LEVER.QUESTION BEING HOW DOES THIS COMPARE TO THE INFAMOUS 9 1/2?i KNOW I'VE HAD QUESTION BEFORE CONCERNING PLANES AND DON'T WANTIT TO BECOMETIRESOME , TRYING TO MAKE DO WITH WHAT I'VE GOT THAT WAY I CANJUSTIFY THISDREAM TO THE MRS.THX DEWAYNE from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Tue Jul 8 21:26:46 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 8 Jul 1997 20:26:41 MDT #19314) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: slowwwwwwwwww Everyone must have given up planing for fishing. Good Choice!! I'm posting this just to keep mail-a-comin. Fishing is great in my area, allthe waters are down or soon will be. I'm still pursuing the planing dreama bit slower but moving forward. jerry from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Wed Jul 9 05:46:46 1997 Subject: Re: Concerning Grips Any suggestions why my pointer finger always seems togo numb after a few hours of casting. Most of my rodsare full wells grips. It doesn't seem to matter if I'musing a 7.5' trout rod or a 14' spey rod. Sure is abother. I hadn't thought I was making the grips toosmall, but maybe?? Anyone have a similar experience? Bob. Bob!I have been everywhere but at my computer for the last several weeks - including four wonderful days at Corbett Lake Lodge near Merrit B.C. PeterMcVey has added some trophy fish to it's stock.Before I retired from medicine I practised Paeditriac Rheumatology. Ilearned enough about the problems of adults to say that your flyrodnumbness must be a result of median nerve compression and therefore acomponent of carpal tunnel syndrome which you have had for a long time.The suggestion of changing your grip is a good one. If that doesn't workmaybe your local Physio could supply you with a wrist splint that wouldprevent the movement or position that produces nerve pressure. What everyou do don't stop fishing.good luck, Jim. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Jul 9 11:50:09 1997 Subject: Sinclair's Heddon book Well my wait is over, my copy of Michael Sinclair's "Heddon - The RodWith The Fighting Heart" book arrived yesterday. I must say that upon 1st look-over that he's done a great job ofresearching details about each rod model. A short history model-by-modelplus rod model charts, by year, of exact rod details. He's outdone himself this time - much better edited than his "Bamboo RodRestoration Handbook". A nice addition to the bookshelf of anyonerestoring Heddon rods. He's even got details on how Paul Young ordered rods from Heddon(Young's Dry Fly Special rods). Plus other great little tidbits. Too bad there's not books like this for all the other brands of rods. LAter, Don Burns from sall@eol.ime.net Wed Jul 9 18:20:58 1997 Subject: duplicate postings thanks for your help mike I appreciate it. from sall@eol.ime.net Wed Jul 9 18:32:30 1997 Subject: lopsided triangles I have been making rods for a few years, perhaps 10 or so rods.Periodically I have a problem with lopsided triangles and can't seem tostraighten it out. The problem is worse in the butt section than the tip section. It seemsto occur after a node most of the time. I do not think it is improperlystraightened nodes ( I have a system that straightens them dead flat ).It could be that I do not hold the plane level as I work. I have tried to correct the problem by taking extra strokes off the oneside as in the Garrison book but it doesn't work. I have tried using a preliminary form and planing the one side to 57degrees as Garrison suggested. I have put the strip right in the formand turned the strip every every few strokes as Barnes suggested.Nothing seems to prevent this. This is the last problem I have left and not being able to solve it isdriving me wild. Can anyone help? Mike from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Wed Jul 9 19:41:25 1997 ; Thu, 10 Jul 1997 12:42:48 +1200 Subject: communications I have not received any communications from rodmakers over the last twoweeks . Is the link down or is it just a good time to be out fishing ? Ian Kearney from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Jul 9 20:21:56 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles Mike,Did you check your forms?John Zimny from 76250.1771@CompuServe.COM Wed Jul 9 22:59:27 1997 Subject: Re: communications Ian-Lot of us out fishing -but- there's been 12 messages in the last 3 days .Tryunsubscribing to the list and re-subscribing . It's Wed night , I just gothomeafter three day away and had 12 messages. regards Dennis from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Thu Jul 10 11:28:32 1997 services.state.mo.us (8.8.3/8.8.0) with SMTP id LAA03194 for Subject: Replacement tube cap To the list: I recently obtained a vintage big but beautiful F.E. Thomas Browntone rod. The rod, bag, and tube are in great shape, but the tube cap has been lost to the ages. I know I can get a suitable new, replacement tube with cap, but I'd prefer to obtain a replacement cap for the original tube if possible. Does anyone have any advice in where/how to obtain a replacement? I'm not a machinist, so I may not be using the correct terms here, but the threads on the tube collar are rounded (stamped?) rather than sharp-edged (die or lathe cut?), so I assume the cap had stamped threads. I think it would be relatively simple for a machinist to make a cap with cut threads, but can a cap to match the roundedthreads be made at a reasonable price? Alternatively, does anyone have a bin of old caps for sale? Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Jul 10 17:30:11 1997 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA20777 for Subject: Re: Replacement tube cap TERRY FINGER wrote: To the list: I recently obtained a vintage big but beautiful F.E. Thomas Browntonerod. The rod, bag, and tube are in great shape, but the tube cap hasbeen lost to the ages. I know I can get a suitable new, replacementtube with cap, but I'd prefer to obtain a replacement cap for theoriginal tube if possible. Does anyone have any advice in where/how to obtain a replacement?I'm not a machinist, so I may not be using the correct terms here,but the threads on the tube collar are rounded (stamped?) rather thansharp-edged (die or lathe cut?), so I assume the cap had stampedthreads. I think it would be relatively simple for a machinist tomake a cap with cut threads, but can a cap to match the roundedthreads be made at a reasonable price? Alternatively, does anyone have a bin of old caps for sale? Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us If you don't find a cap, I have a friend who has a Thomas Browntone. Hiscap might provide the information you need to have one made. George Barnesgwbarnes@gwi.net from brookside.rod@juno.com Thu Jul 10 18:37:39 1997 19:37:14 EDT Subject: 1997 Catskill Rodmakers Gathering Once again it is nearly time for the annual gathering of rodmakers at theCatskill Fly Fishing Center and Museum. Located on the banks of thehistoric Willowemoc river in New Yorks Catskill Region, the Center willhost this years meeting to be held September 6th and 7th. Additionalinformation will soon be published but individuals may obtain what newswhich may be available by contacting one of the organizers directly. Call Mr. Bob Reid at (617)782-2513 for these preliminary details. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.commaker of fine handcrafted split bamboo fly rodsBrookside Rod Co.37 Brook Street Naugatuck, Ct. 06770- 3101 from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sat Jul 12 12:19:22 1997 Subject: Why so quiet? My daily "fix" seems to have gone missing - why so quiet? My 5'5" Montague baitcaster is ready for my new varnish dip tank - otherthan that - all quiet on the western front. Tight lines, Don Burns from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sat Jul 12 14:37:24 1997 Subject: Signature wrap info needed Hi all; I've got a nice 7'6" Montague Fishkill (2/1) - green plastic reelseatspacer-era rod that needed to be rewrapped. The butt had been rewrappedyears ago by someone and the original signature wrap pattern was notused. If anyone can provide the proper pattern, please email both thecolor and spacings from winding check on out towards the stripper guide.The stripper guide's outer tipping wraps have survived, so I believe caneasily restore the stripper wraps and the tip section has all theoriginal wraps so no problems there. I'm also not sure if there was any mid-shaft wraps? Anyone have a hoard of unused original Montague shaft decals? Or asecond complete tip section? No? Oh well, I guess I'll settle for thesig' wrap pattern. Thanks in advance, Don Burns PS - I'll post the taper after I've stripped the rod. from mrj@seanet.com Sat Jul 12 14:50:03 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA05738 for Subject: flame tempering and splitting I have been flame tempering my bamboo as that was how I was tought. Onmy last rod I had it split before I flamed it so I couldn't use thatmethod. I oven treated it. One thing I seemed to noticed was that it(bamboo) appeared to be easier to split when it wasn't tempered. Theflame tempered bamboo seemed to be more difficult to split and tocontrol the splits as far as running off line. The untempered bambooseemed much easier to control the direction of the split. Have othersnoticed this? Maybe I just got hold of a piece of bamboo that was easyto split. I have built 7 rods, 6 of which have been flame tempered, so Idon't have a lot of experience as far as spliting the untreated bamboo.-- Martin Jensen from sall@eol.ime.net Sun Jul 13 11:37:57 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles RO>Mike,RO>Did you check your forms?RO>John Zimny John, thanks for the reply. Yes I did check the forms. Actually I havesix forms ( talk about overdoing it, and another story ) and it doesn'tseem to matter which forms I use. The thing that makes me think it isnot the forms is that the more narrow the strip the less likely it is tohappen, and it is not consistent from strip to strip. I have also triedusing different forms. I have even gone so far as to mark the side thatneeds to be planed with marker along the area that is lopsided and tryto selectively plane it , measuring after each pass to straighten itout. Sometimes that doesn't work either. I think it is something I amdoing that is somehow ameliorated after a given dimension is exceededbut I can't figure it out.I'll consider any advice. Thanks Mike Palumbo from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sun Jul 13 13:28:30 1997 Subject: RE:flame tempering and splitting RO>I have been flame tempering my bamboo as that was how I was tought.OnRO>my last rod I had it split before I flamed it so I couldn't use thatRO>method. I oven treated it. One thing I seemed to noticed was that itRO>(bamboo) appeared to be easier to split when it wasn't tempered. TheRO>flame tempered bamboo seemed to be more difficult to split and toRO>control the splits as far as running off line. The untempered bambooRO>seemed much easier to control the direction of the split. Have othersRO>noticed this? Maybe I just got hold of a piece of bamboo that was easyRO>to split. I have built 7 rods, 6 of which have been flame tempered, so IRO>don't have a lot of experience as far as spliting the untreated bamboo.RO>--RO>Martin Jensen Martin, In an old Montague catalog, I noticed that the Manitou Tournament rodwas described as having its heat treating done after milling (italics inthe original catalog). None of their other rods were described this way. Don B. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sun Jul 13 15:20:57 1997 Subject: Restoration stripper guides FS (maybe) I might have a change to purchase a small hoard of old-style low-ringstripper guides. They seem to range from about ~2.5 mm to about 8 mm insize and all of them are are chrome- plated (I think). There's a few Perfection guides (some of these might be used), but mostseem to be new and from Allan Mfg. The Perfection guides are about the same size as was originally used onmany Heddon rods. The Allan guides have a stamped metal frame that's then formed tosupport the ring. I don't know what brands of rods (if any) used Allanstyle guides. The Allan guides seem to range in size from about 2.5 mm(?) to 8 mm or larger. Several different designs from what I saw. Theremight also be some small high-ring guides from Allan for use on canespinning or baitcasting rods - in both chrome and gold-tone. If anyone is interested in buying any of these guides from me (assumingI can swing the deal), please email me directly. Price and quantityavailable is TBD at this time. I do hope to be able to sell them for$2.00 each (maybe less), if I can swing the deal. I'll know more next weekend, but I'd like to know the interest levelbeforehand. SPECIAL NOTE: After monday morning (west-coast time), I'll be out oftown until early friday morning - so sorry if I can't respond quickly. Finally, sorry for the use of the list-serv for business, but I thoughtmany rodbuilder/restorers might be interested. Sincerely, Don Burnsflyfisher@bbs.cmix.com from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Jul 13 20:41:13 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles sall@eol.ime.net wrote: RO>Mike,RO>Did you check your forms?RO>John Zimny John, thanks for the reply. Yes I did check the forms. Actually I havesix forms ( talk about overdoing it, and another story ) and it doesn'tseem to matter which forms I use. The thing that makes me think it isnot the forms is that the more narrow the strip the less likely it is tohappen, and it is not consistent from strip to strip. I have also triedusing different forms. I have even gone so far as to mark the side thatneeds to be planed with marker along the area that is lopsided and tryto selectively plane it , measuring after each pass to straighten itout. Sometimes that doesn't work either. I think it is something I amdoing that is somehow ameliorated after a given dimension is exceededbut I can't figure it out.I'll consider any advice. Thanks Mike PalumboAre your splines gluing up OK? Or are you seeing visible glue lines?John from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jul 13 21:29:34 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles Mike -There are several things that can cause loopsided strips other than justthe forms.1) The blade - you may want to check the plane blade - it leading edgeneedsto be straight with the edge of the fornt foot of the plane - visuallyinspect it from a low angle either from the rear or front of the plane.2) The blade - the blade may be crowned from a washed out waterstone -planing at other than exact center will cause uneven removal and a lessthandesired angle.3) The Hand - You may not be holding the plane with the sole flat to theforms - this is my personal downfall area - I have in the past placed amirror at the end of the forms so that I could watch the cant of the plane.Iwill also drag my third finger along the side of the forms - this acts tostablize the plane from rocking.4) Downward Pressure - I have seen that if for some reason the plane isn'tcutting that some will try to put more down pressure on it. The more downpressure the more loss of control. The problem is with the plane - a dullblade - lack of throat opening - something. If the blade was just sharpenedlook for a flipped up burr. The weight of the plane is all that is needed tomake the cut - alot of energy can be burned up by trying to force the planeto work.5) Raised nodes - if the node area was less than softened when flatteneditmay be raised and creating a teater toter in the strips. The movement inthestrip can cant the angle - check to see that the node areas are well seatedagainst the forms.6) Debris in the forms - Always keep the forms clean - any shavings orsanddust in the forms can cause the strips to not seat and throw the anglesoff. Realize this - once the angle is off it can be a little tricky to get itback on course. The natural tendency of the plane is to follow the existingflat surface - the forward foot will jump to the flat. When you are tryingtochange the angle a very soft downward pressure is needed. Understand thatthefirst pass on an angle change will only yield a very fine hair of a shavingand only with a few successful passes with the normal full widthshavings beseen.To check the forms - place your angle gauge in the slot and check withamachinist's square - the blade of the square and the side of the anglegaugeshould be flush.Now - the reason for the quiet list is that most of us are fishing ( lastsunday evening or monday morning - 3 am - as it was - was especiallysuccessful - Mr 5# brown)or in certain cases mowing the lawn and othermondain summer time tasks. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jul 13 22:49:08 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles Mike -One other thing that I forgot to mention in the last post. Sometimes oddangles can be caused by the forms - especially if they are new. At timesthere can be maching burrs left in the forms that can cause you grief. Ifyouhaven't you might consider fine tuning your forms - it a one time onlythingand will probably take an hour or so to do.The first step in fine tuning is to file the broad surface of the forms -this will do the same purpose a surface grinding - it make the metalsurfaceflat and uniform. The file you want to use is a long (12" - 14") millbastard. Because the mount end of the file is soft you can drill andcountersink a screw (#10 - #12) and mount a handle to the file.To file - lay the file on the forms and point it as parallel as possible.The idea is to file the entire width at the same time. As you begin to fileswitch the file position from crossing to the left to crossing to the right.Inspect the file marks often - you need then to evidence at the trough ofthevalley. This will create a shear when you are in the final stages ofscraping and leave cleaner strips. If one side initally marks at the edgesofthe form the other side will usually mark at thr vslley first. Continualfiling until the entire surface is marked.Now to clean up the valley. First using a set of feeler gauges set theforms so that .070" of feeler gauge will just move between the formhalves(in the straight not valley area). You will be using a triangler file hereand they do not come to a true point and by opening up the forms thisallowsthe mill surface to fit to the valley surface properly. For tooling epoxy a6" fine mill file to a piece of 1/4" plexiglass or nylon -a 2" x6" piece isthe recommended size - make sure that when you glue the two togetherthatthere isn't a build up and that the surface of the file and the surface ofthe plexiglass are snug.The file is pulled lightly through the valley of the forms. Theplexiglass is an indicator and is positioned parallel to the form surface.Ofter each pass inspect to see exactly where the file is hitting. At timesthere is a lip either at the top or bottom of the forms and at first the fileonly touches this lip. Remember ONLY pull the file lightly. Now the balancehere is to clean up the surfaces of the valley but not take too much off sothat you can't make the delicate tips when you want to. I usually file untilI have at least a 50 % surface. also at the end of each pass sweep theyvalley clean and whisk the file with a brush or file card to keep it clean aswell.To assure that you are doing what you want check the valley with athreadgauge. Set the gauge into the valley and inspect the amount of light thatpassses between the two surfaces. Then you might want to check the edgeofthe gauge with the blade edge of a machinist's square. This will confirmthatthe v is in correct position with the form surface.And another item to add to the last list7) Screws set too tight - avoid putting too much pressure on the adjustingscrews of your forms. A large amount of pressure can cause the dowelalignment pins to flex and create an angle in the valley of the forms thatisn't 60 degrees. Wayne from blairdhs@pop.k12.vt.us Mon Jul 14 09:29:43 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-12124) with SMTP id AAA175 Subject: rod makers Hello, My name is Bob Laird and I am beginning to learn about cane rod building. Are there any rod builders in Vermont or Northern New Hampshire who would be willing to set a beginner on the right path? Thanks,Bob Laird blairdhs@pop.k12.vt.us from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon Jul 14 10:45:02 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA07091 for; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 11:44:59 -0400 Subject: Re: rod makers Hi Bob,I live in Newbury, vt. What do you need to know, be glad to help. I completed two rods and ready for heat treating the third.Where abouts in Vt. are you?? tom My name is Bob Laird and I am beginning to learn about cane rod building. Are there any rod builders in Vermont or Northern New Hampshire who would be willing to set a beginner on the right path? Thanks,Bob Laird blairdhs@pop.k12.vt.us from rec@flyfishers.com Mon Jul 14 11:56:35 1997 mail2.nai.net (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id MAA26859 for Subject: European Angling Periodicals I am interested in obtaining the name(s), address, phone, & fax numbersof several European fly fishing or related angling magazines including "Trout & Salmon", an English publication. I appreciate yourassistance. Regards, Alan Gnann from jockscott@sprynet.com Mon Jul 14 12:27:02 1997 KAA19728 for ; Mon, 14 Jul 1997 10:26:54-0700 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles sall@eol.ime.net wrote: RO>Mike,RO>Did you check your forms?RO>John Zimny John, thanks for the reply. Yes I did check the forms. Actually I havesix forms ( talk about overdoing it, and another story ) and it doesn'tseem to matter which forms I use. The thing that makes me think it isnot the forms is that the more narrow the strip the less likely it is tohappen, and it is not consistent from strip to strip. I have also triedusing different forms. I have even gone so far as to mark the side thatneeds to be planed with marker along the area that is lopsided and tryto selectively plane it , measuring after each pass to straighten itout. Sometimes that doesn't work either. I think it is something I amdoing that is somehow ameliorated after a given dimension is exceededbut I can't figure it out.I'll consider any advice. Thanks Mike Palumbo You might want to consider, in addition to the excelent suggestionsgivin by Mr. Cattanch, that;1. Make full length passes with the plane to correct errors. Think ofthe strip in its entiety, breking it down into sections will onlycompound your problem. You might be able to correct the trangle in ashort section and find that when you glue it up there are still gluelines in the corrected area. You must correct both sides of the Triangle, I generally try to makethree passes on the short side than one on the long, two on short one onlong than one and one. Measure and if it is within 8 thousands it willcorrect itself by taking a pass from each side by the time you reach theforms. you are close to final dimensions you may not have sufficient bamboo tomake your correction.2. Is the hight of your bench at a comfortable level? If you must leaninto the form you are probably compensating with your hand in the formof pressure on one side of the plane. Also you should walk your planedown the form, don't stand in one place, this was my problem and until Ilearned to walk my plane down the form I always had lopsided trianglesabout 2/3rds down the strip.3. I helped a friend of mine with this problem, for him it was theattitude of his hand in relation to the plane, we solved it by raisinghis form on a set of blocks.4. Most importantly make sure your plane is well tuned and your bladesare sharp, this is the most common reason for errors.Hope this helps you;S. Gobin from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon Jul 14 15:29:06 1997 with ESMTP id PAA11665 for ; Mon, 14 Jul dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id AKSGCRAH; Mon,14 Jul 1997 13:56:17 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Re: lopsided triangles Not to bve a naysayer here or anything but.. On my first rod I had never touched a hand plane or scraper before and allmytriangles were perfect after final planing. In fact, I found final planing tobe a breeze compared to roughing to 60's. I find it hard to believe thatWaynecan go from culm to twelve straight 60 deg strips in an hour without abeveller. It took me at least ten hours to get from culm to 60's. I thinkmaybespending the extra time getting the angles RIGHT before tempering andfinalplaning really made it a lot easier. Just a theory, still on rod #1, but hasanyone else had similar experiences? I wonder, for you guys that aregettingthese bad triangles, how careful were you in getting your 60's PERFECTbeforetempering and final planing? Oh, I was also using Frank's form so this was a big help as well. Don D. from sall@eol.ime.net Mon Jul 14 19:49:25 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles RO>Are your splines gluing up OK? Or are you seeing visible glue lines?RO>John John, My splines glue up really well .The glue lines are invisible (Iuse epoxy), people who don't know how rods are made think it is onepiece! Mike from sall@eol.ime.net Mon Jul 14 19:53:51 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles thanks Wayne. I just returned from two days of fishing for wild trout innorthern Maine. I printed your reply and will follow your advice on mynext rod. Mike from sall@eol.ime.net Mon Jul 14 19:59:25 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles RO>MikeO>that you can't make the delicate tips when you want to. I usuallyfileuntilRO>I have at least a 50 % surface. Wayne, What do you mean by a 50% surface ? Mike from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jul 14 22:07:43 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles Don -You are very correct about the angles - the list I posted are some of thethings I've seen happen over the years.About the in the oven in an hour - The answer is simply that of practiceand accumulated knowledge - paying your dues - it's that way with almosteverything that we undertake in life. Wayne from m.boretti@agonet.it Tue Jul 15 10:58:50 1997 Subject: R: European Angling Periodicals Dear Alan,I am a hobby rodmakers, and I havew buy many months ago from REC whentheCo. are in the Vermont, if it's possible send me your new Catalog and pricelist.Concerning the magazine, in Italy there are only one, I send his addrees.FLY LINEEcosistemi FluvialiVia Pietro Gobetti 1941043 Formigine ( MO )ItalyFax 0039 . 59 . 573663 My Addrees: Marco Boretti Via Boselli Bonini 1329100 PiacenzaItaly Sincerely,Marco ----------Da: REC COMPONENTS ( Alan Gnann ) A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: lunedá 14 luglio 1997 18.50 I am interested in obtaining the name(s), address, phone, & fax numbersof several European fly fishing or related angling magazines including "Trout & Salmon", an English publication. I appreciate yourassistance. Regards, Alan Gnann from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue Jul 15 15:34:07 1997 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA06783 for Subject: Missing Information As usual, when I discard something, I develop a need for it within days. This time it's the availability and approximate cost of rod blanks thatwere on the list a week or so ago. Does anyone still have the information? I just learned a friend has thebutt and middle section of a three piece rod and is looking for a blankto make a new tip. George Barnesgwbarnes@gwi.net from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jul 15 15:41:06 1997 Subject: Re: lopsided triangles Mike -A 100 % surface would be that where the entire surface has beenbrightenedwith a file - a 50 % surface in where only half of the surface shows theeffect of filing. This will save pushing the valley down in the forms anyfarther than you have to. Wayne from rec@flyfishers.com Tue Jul 15 16:54:48 1997 mail2.nai.net (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id RAA24867 for Subject: Re: R: European Angling Periodicals Marco Boretti wrote: Dear Alan,I am a hobby rodmakers, and I havew buy many months ago from RECwhen theCo. are in the Vermont, if it's possible send me your new Catalog andpricelist.Concerning the magazine, in Italy there are only one, I send his addrees.FLY LINEEcosistemi FluvialiVia Pietro Gobetti 1941043 Formigine ( MO )ItalyFax 0039 . 59 . 573663 My Addrees: Marco BorettiVia Boselli Bonini 1329100 PiacenzaItaly Sincerely,Marco ----------Da: REC COMPONENTS ( Alan Gnann ) A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: lunedá 14 luglio 1997 18.50 I am interested in obtaining the name(s), address, phone, & fax numbersof several European fly fishing or related angling magazines including"Trout & Salmon", an English publication. I appreciate yourassistance. Regards, Alan Gnann Dear Marco, Thank you for calling me today and for the information sent by emailregarding the Italian fishing magazine. I have already sent them aletter by fax requesting information regarding advertising. With regardto your request, we have already sent you a letter along with a productlist for you and your friend. I can source the silk thread youdiscussed today, The Gudebrod silk thread, color # 541 (Medium Brown) is available in size 2/0 only. I have an account with Gudebrod and amwilling to include your needs on our next order. If you would like meto try to get Bill Alley to pay for this I would require somedocumentation to represent you in your dispute. In any event, I will dowhat can to assist you. I have recorded your phone numbers in your file information from you regarding the other magazines in Europe. With best regards, Alan Gnann from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Jul 15 16:57:58 1997 Subject: red agateen tip tops I have a chance to buy some old red agateen tip tops and stripperguides. Any one out there have an opinion on their useability? Brian > from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jul 15 17:19:56 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA053705095; Tue, 15 Jul 1997 15:18:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Red Agateen Stripper Guides Brian, If you do restoration work than red agateen stripper guides of the right size would be very desirable for certain models that had these type of strippers. Many Montagues, and the Wright & McGill Stream and Lake rods had these as well as many other models. In the parts catalog's these type of guides are being offered at about $30 each. Whether anyone actually buys them for that price would be interesting to know. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rcurry@jlc.net Tue Jul 15 17:47:05 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA28379 for Subject: Re: red agateen tip tops brian & michelle creek wrote: I have a chance to buy some old red agateen tip tops and stripperguides. Any one out there have an opinion on their useability? Brian >Brian,I use agate strippers when I can get them (usually from old rods), ifthe agate is not chipped or cracked. They look good on most cane rods. Ihave tried the agatine strippers and recently purchased some for 1 poundeach (H&H). A good substitute.I've found the agate tiptops to be too heavy.Best regards,Reed from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Jul 15 20:49:14 1997 Subject: Re: red agateen tip tops Reed, Yeah, they seem kinda heavy, but I can get them for $2 each. Seems likea good chance to experiment. At any rate, they look cool on myworkbench!! Brian > from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed Jul 16 16:49:33 1997 (8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA17944 for ; Wed, dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id QJVXBICM; Wed,16 Jul 1997 16:48:58 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Ferrule Cement Hey everyone, A while ago a rodmaker listed Elmers Probond as a good ferrule cement.Theproblem is that "Probond" is not a name of one glue but rather an overbrandfora family of Elmers glues including Probond Contact Cement, Probond ModelandHobby Glue, and Probond Household Cement. These oare the ones I saw atmy localTarget. Which Probond is the right one for ferrules?? ThanksDon D. from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jul 16 19:44:35 1997 Subject: Blanks Reed I ran into a critter that said he had several Garrison Blanks, no.ed andsigned... true? of any value? Jerry from mrj@seanet.com Thu Jul 17 00:36:58 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA29784 for Subject: Nitrogen spray in dip tube?? A while ago there was some talk about an inert gas you could spray onthe top of your varnish in your dip tube. It's purpose would be toremove the air from contacting the varnish and hardening it. The gas washeavier then air so it would be an easy job to spray it into the top ofthe tube. What was the spray and where do I buy it. I seem to think it was maybenitrogen and it was in a small pressurized container easily available.Again I forget where.-- Martin Jensen from mrj@seanet.com Thu Jul 17 00:41:07 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA29906 for Subject: Re: Ferrule Cement Don DeLoach wrote: A while ago a rodmaker listed Elmers Probond as a good ferrule cement.Theproblem is that "Probond" is not a name of one glue but rather anoverbrand fora family of Elmers glues including Probond Contact Cement, ProbondModel andHobby Glue, and Probond Household Cement.Which Probond is the right one for ferrules?? Do one of the Probond types list Urethane as it's main ingredient? Ibelieve that this is the type of cement that Probond is replacing on theMarket (Dow Corning Urethane Cement).-- Martin Jensen from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Thu Jul 17 09:34:53 1997 JAA10833 for ; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 09:34:51 Subject: Re: Ferrule Cement On the topic of ferrule cement, a lot of people seem to like good-oldPlioBond. It sticks like grim death to about everything (some plasticsexcluded) yet releases with a little heat. Years ago, Herter's usedto sell it as "Silhower Ferrule Cement".......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jul 17 10:26:37 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA006893096; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 08:24:57 -0700 Subject: Devcon 2-ton Epoxy Question Has anyone used this product for ferrules? Will heat allow you to later remove a ferrule? Also, could some of you experienced listmembers tellme of a good brand of glue for use on wood reelseats. I'm looking for a product that would come off with minimal heat to avoid burning the wood,if the reelseat needed to be removed later. Thanks. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Jul 17 10:59:57 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id PAA03295 for; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 15:59:54 GMT Subject: Re: Devcon 2-ton Epoxy Question CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Has anyone used this product for ferrules? Will heat allow you to laterremove a ferrule? Also, could some of you experienced listmembers tellmeof a good brand of glue for use on wood reelseats. I'm looking for aproduct that would come off with minimal heat to avoid burning thewood, ifthe reelseat needed to be removed later. Thanks. MacThe Devcon epoxy does work well. It does'nt require a lot of heat tosoften and holds up in hot car trunks. I have two rods I built and usethat have this product holding the ferrules, cork grip, and walnut seatin place. I have been using them since 1984 and they are in great shape.Bryant J. Cochran, Jr. from GEORGE_BOURKE@HP-SantaClara-om2.om.hp.com Thu Jul 1711:16:45 1997 (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.4 Openmail) id AA091476198; Thu, 17 Jul1997 09:16:38 -0700 Subject: Re: Blanks Hi, I'd be EXTREMELY skeptical. If true, most likely rejects to be turned down for ferrule plugs, etc. Garrison's tapers, nodal patterns, and methods are (obviously) published -- very easy to counterfeit. In my experiences of buying components directly from famousrodmakers they only put their name on a completely finished rod, not blanks, reel seats or anything else (to help avoid counterfeits). George Subject: BlanksAuthor: Non-HP-owner-rodmakers (owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu)at HP-SantaClara,mimegw1 Reed I ran into a critter that said he had several Garrison Blanks, no.ed and signed... true? of any value? Jerry from delaney@acc.mcneese.edu Thu Jul 17 11:24:54 1997 LAA10730; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 11:24:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Devcon 2-ton Epoxy Question I have used both Devcon's 5 minute epoxy and Devcon's 2-ton epoxy for ferrule cement. Both have worked well for me. I haven't tried removing them with heat, however. Most epoxies do break dow to release the epoxy damage the bamboo that it is bonded to? I haven't experimented with that aspect for these epoxies. Mark in LA On Thu, 17 Jul 1997, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Has anyone used this product for ferrules? Will heat allow you to later remove a ferrule? Also, could some of you experienced listmembers tellme of a good brand of glue for use on wood reelseats. I'm looking for a product that would come off with minimal heat to avoid burning thewood, if the reelseat needed to be removed later. Thanks. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mrj@seanet.com Thu Jul 17 12:13:13 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA13626 for Subject: Re: Devcon 2-ton Epoxy Question CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: Has anyone used this product for ferrules? Will heat allow you to laterremove a ferrule? Also, could some of you experienced listmembers tellmeof a good brand of glue for use on wood reelseats. I'm looking for aproduct that would come off with minimal heat to avoid burning thewood, ifthe reelseat needed to be removed later. Thanks. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Use ferrule cement. The type that is like the hot glue gun glue. Youjust heat it with a candle or a heat gun and it softens up. Personallythough, I would use epoxy.If I wanted to get a real seat off I would figure that the only reasonwas the rod was ruined and I would probably just saw it off and drill itout.-- Martin Jensen from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Thu Jul 17 12:50:38 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 7855; Thu, 17 Jul 97 13:49:09 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 2555; Thu, 17 Jul1997 13:49:09 -0400Subject: Re: Devcon 2-ton Epoxy Question I've used Devcon slow cure and 5min brands for lots of rod project withoutincident. However...Just recently I bought a new reel, a used Ross, that Ireally like but was too light for my purposes. I made some weights ofbrasstubing filled with lead to add a few ozs to the reel. They were formed tofitsnugly behind the spool on the inside of the body of the reel. I used 5- minepoxy. A week or two later after of full weekend of camping and hardfishingthe glue just pealed off. Apparently, the 5-min stuff doesn't stand up tohard and wet use. Anyone else have similar failures? Bob. from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Thu Jul 17 12:55:42 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 7878; Thu, 17 Jul 97 13:54:13 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 2721; Thu, 17 Jul1997 13:54:13 -0400Subject: Re: Concerning Grips Jim, Thanks for the advice on the grip problem. Several folks mentionedsomerelation to wrist injury, but it's just my finger that goes numb. I've nevernoticed any wrist involvement. As a solution I'm trying to train myself totake an occasional break, and vary my grip. Bob. from GAM@mssmtpgate.housing.umich.edu Thu Jul 17 15:56:20 1997 runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.3) mssmtpgate.housing.umich.eduwith Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 17 Jul 1997 16:56:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Devcon 2-ton Epoxy Question -Reply I have used both epoxies for rod projects. I read somewhere once thatthe 5 min. does not stand up well in water. The 2 ton is good but a littleoverkill for grips. For grips I like either pliobond or titebond. Also if youuse epoxy on anodized alum. you need to rough up the plating first. Learned that one the hard way onmy first rod. from RandBOR@aol.com Thu Jul 17 19:13:39 1997 Subject: Re: Nitrogen spray in dip tube?? MartinCalled Blo2xygen and is sold by Garrett Wade. $9.95/can of about 150secondsof spray. Using it, but do not yet know how effective it is.DRT from mrj@seanet.com Thu Jul 17 19:40:31 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA06741 for Subject: Re: Nitrogen spray in dip tube?? RandBOR@aol.com wrote: MartinCalled Blo2xygen and is sold by Garrett Wade. $9.95/can of about 150secondsof spray. Using it, but do not yet know how effective it is.DRTI just bought a can of the same stuff locally at a woodworkers store.I'm in the same boat as you. It should work though.-- Martin Jensen from nakayama@katri.kajima.co.jp Thu Jul 17 20:21:25 1997 (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.4W4) with ESMTP id KAA20127 for; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 10:20:56 +0900 (JST) SMTP id KAA08990 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 199710:20:55 +0900 (JST) katrigw.katri.kajima.co.jp (8.6.11+2.4W/3.4W3) with SMTP id KAA04526 I am looking for a router bit called a fingernail bit in a 5/8" diameterwhich is described in Wayne's book. This bit is useful to cut reel seatmortise. I was not able to find it in Japanese market. Dose anybody informme the shop where I can purchase it by mail order? Minoru NakayamaMusashino-shi, TokyoJapan from wfmack@evansville.net Thu Jul 17 22:26:34 1997 world.evansville.net via sendmail with smtp id for ; Thu, Subject: Re: Nitrogen spray in dip tube?? Martin Jensen wrote: A while ago there was some talk about an inert gas you could spray onthe top of your varnish in your dip tube. It's purpose would be toremove the air from contacting the varnish and hardening it. The gas washeavier then air so it would be an easy job to spray it into the top ofthe tube.What was the spray and where do I buy it. I seem to think it was maybenitrogen and it was in a small pressurized container easily available.Again I forget where.--Martin JensenPhotography supply houses sometimes sell spray cans of some sort ofinert gas to spray in on top of developer to slow oxidation in thecontainer. You might try your local yellow pages under photographicsupplies. Not sur eif it's nitrogen. Bill from mrj@seanet.com Fri Jul 18 00:28:59 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA24329 for Subject: Re: Minoru Nakayama wrote: I am looking for a router bit called a fingernail bit in a 5/8" diameterwhich is described in Wayne's book. This bit is useful to cut reel seatmortise. I was not able to find it in Japanese market. Dose anybodyinformme the shop where I can purchase it by mail order? Minoru NakayamaMusashino-shi, TokyoJapanGrizzly Imports IncPO Bx 2069Bellingham, WA 98227 West of Mississippi Phone No. 1-800-541-5537East of .... phone N. 1-800- 523-4777 Fingernail bit part No. C-1215 This is the company re-named, that is listed in Wayne's book.Good luck-- Martin Jensen from mrj@seanet.com Fri Jul 18 00:31:09 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA24391 for Subject: Re: Nitrogen spray in dip tube?? William Mack wrote:Photography supply houses sometimes sell spray cans of some sort ofinert gas to spray in on top of developer to slow oxidation in thecontainer. You might try your local yellow pages under photographicsupplies. Not sur eif it's nitrogen. Bill You are correct it is not nitrogen. The Gas is Argon. This is a commongas used in TIG and MIG welding. -- Martin Jensen from rcurry@jlc.net Fri Jul 18 07:46:38 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA06987 for Subject: Re: Blanks Jerry Foster wrote: Reed I ran into a critter that said he had several Garrison Blanks, no.ed andsigned... true? of any value? JerryJerry,Due to the limited production of Garrison, and that most people wouldonly sign a finished rod, I would tend to accept these the same way Iwould a Roman coin imprinted "130 B.C.".Best regards,Reed from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Fri Jul 18 08:49:59 1997 Subject: Re: Nitrogen spray in dip tube?? Another common source of nitrogen gas is wine shops. It is soldin small containers to displace the air in partially consumed bottlesof wine. Mike - who never seems to have "partially consumed bottles"only EMPTY ones - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Jul 18 09:16:25 1997 Subject: RE:red agateen tip tops RO>I have a chance to buy some old red agateen tip tops and stripperRO>guides. Any one out there have an opinion on their useability? RO>Brian > Brian, Adding to the other replies - I've only found only one small agatetiptop that I'll use on a fly rod. The others that I've found are allway too heavy. Strippers sure - if small. In the end, it all depends upon the size and weight of the guides. DOcheck for worn agateen or any cracks, any damaged ones could still beused for display (wall-hanger) rods. Don Burns from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Jul 18 09:26:51 1997 Subject: Re: Blanks RO>Jerry Foster wrote:RO>>RO>> ReedRO>>RO>> I ran into a critter that said he had several Garrison Blanks, no.ed andRO>> signed... true? of any value?RO>>RO>> By the way, Chris I didn't seem to run into that SMS..RO>>RO>> JerryRO>Jerry,RO> Due to the limited production of Garrison, and that most peoplewouldRO>only sign a finished rod, I would tend to accept these the same way IRO>would a Roman coin imprinted "130 B.C.".RO>Best regards,RO>Reed Reed, I've got a few of those coins. I'd check to see if the ink was dry on the rods - there's a lot of"Garrison" taper rods floating around. Don B. from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri Jul 18 09:29:48 1997 (8.8.5) with ESMTP id JAA00377 for ; Fri, dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id JJOEBPAD; Fri,18 Jul 1997 09:29:15 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Wood River Urethane Oil Has anyone ever heard of a this stuff? I didn't know you could have aurethanefinish that was (linseed) oil based. Is it tung oil compatible? The brand is Wood River, house brand for Woodcraft. ThanksDon D. from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri Jul 18 09:35:29 1997 with ESMTP id JAA06381 for ; Fri, 18 Jul dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id UCOJBECM; Fri,18 Jul 1997 09:34:54 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: fwd: rod ID help Resend... ------------------Original text Guys, I recently obtained an old rod I was hoping might sound familiar to someofyou. It's unmarkrd, flamed,8 1/2" 3-piece, with purple wraps and intermediate wraps, cigar grip andinexpensive dwnlocking reel seat with a plastic threaded insert.It also hasarather large chromed winding check. I'm sure it is a production rod from the 40s or 50s, but can anyone be morespecific and provide an approximate value? It casts very nicely with afive-weight line and the cane is in good shape so I'm probably going torestoreit. ThanksDon D. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Jul 18 10:11:32 1997 Subject: Marriott's Fly Fair Bob Marriott's tackle store in Fullerton, CA is having their annual flyfishing fair on November 22th and 23th, are any rodbuilders planning tohave a booth? The store is fly fishing only and there's many thousandsof people thru the store on the weekend. They will have all major brandsof rods and many 10x10 booths. Check out the URL for more info. URL: www.bobmarriotts.com I'm being greedy and trying to do my best to get some of you guys out toLA, so I can see your work. LAter, Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 18 10:15:29 1997 Subject: Re: Missing Information In a message dated 97-07-15 17:10:56 EDT, you write: George, What brand rod is the rod? Some tips are available for high-end rods - cost~$75 - $100. If this is a production rod, you might find a used tipsomewhere- I've got a few. Don B. from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri Jul 18 10:26:56 1997 (8.8.5) with ESMTP id KAA12918 for ; Fri, dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id QGPBBVAO; Fri,18 Jul 1997 10:26:22 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: lost rodmaker Has anyone heard of Gerald Clarlk, rodmaker, formerly of Ridgewood NJ?I'dappreciate a new address and/or phone number if you have it. ThanksDon D. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Jul 18 10:54:43 1997 Subject: RE:fwd: rod ID help RO>Resend... RO>------------------RO>Original text RO>From: Don DeLoach , on 7/17/97 4:45 PM: RO>Guys, RO>I recently obtained an old rod I was hoping might sound familiar tosome ofRO>you. It's unmarkrd, flamed,RO>8 1/2" 3-piece, with purple wraps and intermediate wraps, cigar gripandRO>inexpensive dwnlocking reel seat with a plastic threaded insert.It alsohasRO>rather large chromed winding check. RO>I'm sure it is a production rod from the 40s or 50s, but can anyone bemoreRO>specific and provide an approximate value? It casts very nicely with aRO>five-weight line and the cane is in good shape so I'm probably going torestRO>it. RO>ThanksRO>Don D. Don, Since it has flamed cane - not a Heddon. Could be a Montague, H-I orSouth Bend. The plastic reelseat spacer might help give you a clue as tobrand - also the ferrule design helps. But if Ni-plated brass ferrules then you've got a low-end productionrod. If they're NS then maybe it's a higher-end rod and could be worth afew 100 dollars. Not much more even if mint. Not much more help without more details. My best guess is a MontagueRapidan or something close - flamed cane, plastic spacer and big bellshaped winding check? But it does sound like is might have been refinished before - removingthe label, so a collector isn't likely to want it. Wraps might have been"fancied-up" to make it look better at the same time. Fix it and fish it. Don Burns from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri Jul 18 11:09:38 1997 (8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA22147 for ; Fri, dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id KNQJABAS; Fri,18 Jul 1997 11:09:02 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: re: RE:fwd: rod ID help Yeah, I forgot to mention that the wraps and varnish looked a little newerthan1950's. The thread even looks like nylon. I wasn't really interested in collecting this rod--after all they're calledFISHING rods for a very good reason... Thanks for the Help,Don D. ------------------Original text RO>Resend... RO>------------------RO>Original text RO>From: Don DeLoach , on 7/17/97 4:45 PM: RO>Guys, RO>I recently obtained an old rod I was hoping might sound familiar tosome ofRO>you. It's unmarkrd, flamed,RO>8 1/2" 3-piece, with purple wraps and intermediate wraps, cigar gripandRO>inexpensive dwnlocking reel seat with a plastic threaded insert.It alsohasRO>rather large chromed winding check. RO>I'm sure it is a production rod from the 40s or 50s, but can anyone bemoreRO>specific and provide an approximate value? It casts very nicely with aRO>five-weight line and the cane is in good shape so I'm probably going torestRO>it. RO>ThanksRO>Don D. Don, Since it has flamed cane - not a Heddon. Could be a Montague, H-I orSouth Bend. The plastic reelseat spacer might help give you a clue as tobrand - also the ferrule design helps. But if Ni-plated brass ferrules then you've got a low-end productionrod. If they're NS then maybe it's a higher-end rod and could be worth afew 100 dollars. Not much more even if mint. Not much more help without more details. My best guess is a MontagueRapidan or something close - flamed cane, plastic spacer and big bellshaped winding check? But it does sound like is might have been refinished before - removingthe label, so a collector isn't likely to want it. Wraps might have been"fancied-up" to make it look better at the same time. Fix it and fish it. Don Burns from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Jul 18 12:23:36 1997 Subject: RE:fwd: rod ID help RO>Yeah, I forgot to mention that the wraps and varnish looked a littlenewer tRO>1950's. The thread even looks like nylon. RO>I wasn't really interested in collecting this rod--after all they'recalledRO>FISHING rods for a very good reason... RO>Thanks for the Help,RO>Don D. Don, If the spacer is black - then my Rapidan guess was a very good one. ManyRapidan's had wraps of purple/gold tripping. Yea, I agree - they should be fished - and as often as possible. LAter, Don B. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Jul 18 12:43:37 1997 Subject: Ferrule Troubles Hi all, Haven't been around lately - been fishing - just back from a couple ofweeks of slightly heavy angling in southern Alberta. Most of the cane rodsdid what was asked of them, but I do have a problem with one rod. Themaleferrules seem to swell - fits today and 2 days later won't. Here is theconstruction technique used: - Cane air dried in basement in Alberta - humidity rarely goes to 60%except in the summer - 15 year old cane- Splines split, planed to final dimensions- Splines tempered @ 350F for 15 minutes- Two days later -reel seat, tip tops & ferrules installed - Devcon 2 tonused on ferrules- Ferrules preliminary fitting- Rod dipped in Professional grade varathane gloss coat - 3 coats -polished with 00000 steel wool- Rod dipped again and polished with 600 grit wet/dry- Final dipping and the rod was polished with rottenstone/water toremovegloss-Guides installed and 4 coats of spar varnish on wraps- Ferrules final fit- Packed into rod bag and alum. case and left in basement from March toearly May- Ferrules wouldn't fit so repolished them again to good fit- Fished rod about every 2 days for about 2 weeks with ferrules needing tobe fitted about every 4 days - would fit fine after polishing - tight after2 days and impossible to insert all the way after 2 more days. To date I've likely fit the ferrules about 7>8 times and they are finallyquit swelling. Now the big question is - would atmospheric moisture going through 5coatsof varathane cause the problem I've seen. The cane swelling and causingthemale ferrule to swell.Some of the literature suggests this is possible. The swelling seemed to stabilize after about 4 months.Any ideas? Don Andersen from delaney@acc.mcneese.edu Fri Jul 18 13:15:38 1997 NAA16344; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 13:15:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Nitrogen spray in dip tube?? If the gas is argon, it has one advantage over nitrogen. The advantage is tht argon is heavier than air, while nitrogen is apporoximately the same density as air. The argon theoretcially should sit on top of the varnish in your dip tube after it displaces the air protecting it better than nitrogen. Anybody know the price of the argon spray bottle? Mark in LA On Thu, 17 Jul 1997, Martin Jensen wrote: William Mack wrote:Photography supply houses sometimes sell spray cans of some sort ofinert gas to spray in on top of developer to slow oxidation in thecontainer. You might try your local yellow pages under photographicsupplies. Not sur eif it's nitrogen. Bill You are correct it is not nitrogen. The Gas is Argon. This is a commongas used in TIG and MIG welding. -- Martin Jensen from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri Jul 18 14:28:41 1997 with ESMTP id OAA12202 for ; Fri, 18 Jul dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id FNTDBGAM; Fri,18 Jul 1997 14:28:06 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: re: RE:fwd: rod ID help Don- The spacer isn't black, its a lt chocolate color--looks like teakwood fromadistance. And yes the ferrules are nickle plated brass, and very long. You still think its a Montague? By the way, how do you pronounce itMON-tah- gyoo or mon-TAYge? The rod doesn't fell anything like the Montague Clipper I have (9' 3 piece#5).The Clipper is much slower. ThanksDon D. ------------------Original text RO>Yeah, I forgot to mention that the wraps and varnish looked a littlenewer tRO>1950's. The thread even looks like nylon. RO>I wasn't really interested in collecting this rod--after all they'recalledRO>FISHING rods for a very good reason... RO>Thanks for the Help,RO>Don D. Don, If the spacer is black - then my Rapidan guess was a very good one. ManyRapidan's had wraps of purple/gold tripping. Yea, I agree - they should be fished - and as often as possible. LAter, Don B. from penr0295@uidaho.edu Fri Jul 18 17:17:48 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id PAA08273 for ; doing -bs Subject: Cane Sources Would appreciate it if someone could tell me of a source for aged cane. Ihave heard that a George Maurer in Knuztown, PA sells it. Has anyonedealt with him before, and does he sell via mail order? Also, doesDemarest sell anything aged or blonde that is available at a higherprice? Thomas PenroseBend, OR from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jul 18 17:22:30 1997 SAA21337 for ; Fri, 18 Jul 1997 18:38:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles Don I would first venture the ferrules are not swelling but (I assume)you are using N/S ferrules and they will (for lack of better word) oxydizeand that is just enough to cause you problems - remember the fit onferrules is about .0001 to it does not take much. When you polish (andagain I assume you are using 0000 steel wool) it removes some ofthis oxydation. You may have no problem at all Regards Chris from GEORGE_BOURKE@HP-SantaClara-om2.om.hp.com Fri Jul 18 18:32:251997 (1.37.109.16/15.5+ECS 3.4 Openmail) id AA273698741; Fri, 18 Jul1997 16:32:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Cane Sources I just contacted Demarest (sp?), a couple of days ago. Frank e-mailed me back to say that the last shipment he received was below rod-building quality (some was even moldy). He did say that he is expecting another shipment this year, so cross your fingers and hope it is a good one. George BourkeSan Jose, CA. ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Cane SourcesAuthor: Non-HP-owner-rodmakers (owner- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu)at HP-SantaClara,mimegw1 Would appreciate it if someone could tell me of a source for aged cane. I have heard that a George Maurer in Knuztown, PA sells it. Has anyone dealt with him before, and does he sell via mail order? Also, does Demarest sell anything aged or blonde that is available at a higherprice? Thomas PenroseBend, OR from lblan@oeonline.com Fri Jul 18 19:59:07 1997 (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0wpNhp-0002oHC; Fri, 18 Jul 97 20:49 EDT Subject: Re: Wood River Urethane Oil Don; I've used this on my bench top. I don't know anything about it thatisn't on the label. It seems to be holding up so far, but the bench hasn'tseen any heavy use (abuse) yet. ----------From: Don DeLoach Subject: Wood River Urethane OilDate: Friday, July 18, 1997 12:29 PM Has anyone ever heard of a this stuff? I didn't know you could have aurethanefinish that was (linseed) oil based. Is it tung oil compatible? The brand is Wood River, house brand for Woodcraft. ThanksDon D. from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jul 18 22:31:48 1997 Subject: Re: R: European Angling Periodicals Alan, I do you already have "Stillwater Trout" on your list of European mag's? Ican buy it at my local newsstand in Los Angeles - so I'm now sure if it's ahard to find magazine here in the states. Don Burns from mrj@seanet.com Sat Jul 19 00:00:55 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA20123 for Subject: Re: Nitrogen spray in dip tube?? Mark Delaney wrote: If the gas is argon, it has one advantage over nitrogen. The advantageis tht argon is heavier than air, while nitrogen is apporoximately thesame density as air. The argon theoretcially should sit on top of thevarnish in your dip tube after it displaces the air protecting it betterthan nitrogen. Anybody know the price of the argon spray bottle? $8.95 plus tax in a Seattle woodworkers store. The bottle is said to begood for 150 good sprays, what ever that means.-- Martin Jensen from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jul 19 08:13:52 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles In a message dated 7/18/97 5:50:21 PM, you wrote: Don - Chris could be right about the ferrule oxidizing, but assuming youareusing a ferrule plug, and given what I remember about your fittingtechniques, I doubt that it would cause you this much grief. I think youhavecorrectly diagnosed the problem. I did some tests a while back, and foundthat unvarnished cane took about 2 months to come back into equilibriumwithatmospheric moisture after heat treating. About half came back in thefirsttwo weeks, the remainder entering slowly over the next 6 weeks. 4months tostabilize after varnishing does not sound out of line. - Tom from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Jul 19 08:26:32 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles At 18:23 18/07/97 -0600, you wrote:Don I would first venture the ferrules are not swelling but (I assume)you are using N/S ferrules and they will (for lack of better word) oxydizeand that is just enough to cause you problems - remember the fit onferrules is about .0001 to it does not take much. When you polish (andagain I assume you are using 0000 steel wool) it removes some ofthis oxydation. You may have no problem at all Regards Chris Chris, 1] Yup, I'm using classic stuff NS.2] Ferrules are wiped down prior to inserting male>female.3] Using diamond dust impregnated cello tape to resize/polish the ferrule.The diamond dust acutally removes the NS.4] The swelling isn't much - just a little - but a little is too much. After about 60 rods - this is the only one I've ever had react like this. Still pondering the problem. Don from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jul 19 08:44:44 1997 ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 10:00:41 -0400 Subject: Re: Ferrule Troubles Don / Tom If it is swelling - then think of the presure required to streach the N/S tube. I would ask if by chance would you have a pressed node(s)under the male ferrule? Another thought - is this a two tip rod - and does it occur on bothtips' male ferrules and also - have you measured them to see if they indeed swelled? Regards Chris from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sat Jul 19 15:39:18 1997 PAA25525 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 15:39:15 Subject: Re: Cane Sources I ordered cane from Demarest last week and it arrived Thursday.She (Mrs D?) said supply was very low and they would only sellme three culms. I'd say that 2 of the 3 are below rod buildingquality, being very thin-walled, light as a feather and coveredwith grower's marks. One has a wall thickness of 0.15 inches;another is 0.18 inches. For reference, a 3.5 inch floppy in itsshell is 0.13 inches thick. After you take off the enamel and pith,that ain't much left to work with. I guess I can make some ice fishing poles for bluegills... I wish they would price it by the pound. I'm sure that all the new hobby builders, like myself, are puttinga strain on the cane supply. But I'd be surprised if established, quantity buyers aren't getting better cane somewhere, somehow, thanthe stuff I just got. I've said enough.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 18 Jul 1997 GEORGE_BOURKE@HP-SantaClara-om2.om.hp.comwrote: I just contacted Demarest (sp?), a couple of days ago. Frank e-mailed me back to say that the last shipment he received was below rod-building quality (some was even moldy). He did say that he is expecting another shipment this year, so cross your fingers and hope it is a good one. George BourkeSan Jose, CA. from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jul 19 16:08:23 1997 ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 17:24:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Cane Sources Frank Blame the Chinese not the Demarests. Harrold andEileen are only the importers.Harold in his talks always emphasizes the problemsof maintaining quality control with the Chinese under the Communistgovernment. He went over the recent problems at Grayling. There is no secret source of this stuff. We are just in a bad period. The only good stuff around is being held by rodmakerswho bought it awhile back. If any of them will sell to you (George Maurer)then go for it - but you will pay a premium. Others, like me will beholdingon to what I have for dear life until a good shipment shows up - then I willbuy several bundles again to make sure I have a good working supply.Expect the price of bamboo to be higher with the next shipment. Rememberyou are competing with other users of this bamboo and the rodmaking useis just a drop in the bucket. There probably some fine chopsticks outtherethat would have made a terrific fly rod - the same goes for the corksupply -I have found some magnificant stuff in wine bottles - better than I have seen on any fly rod. Regards Chris from sall@eol.ime.net Sat Jul 19 18:44:40 1997 Subject: Re: Concerning Grips RO>Jim, Thanks for the advice on the grip problem. Several folksmentioned soRO>relation to wrist injury, but it's just my finger that goes numb. I'veneveRO>noticed any wrist involvement. As a solution I'm trying to trainmyself toRO>take an occasional break, and vary my grip. Bob.if your finger is going numb you have a nerve entrapment problem.Knowing what finger will tell you what nerve. See your doctor! Mike from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sat Jul 19 19:51:11 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id RAA27264 for ; doing -bs Subject: Pulley wheel for Garrison binder If anyone is interested, I came across a 3 inch pulley wheel very muchlike the narrow V-groove wheel shown on the binder in theGarrison/Carmichael book.It is labeled as a #213 garage door pulley with clevis hook, nut, andbolt. It is made by DPI (Door Products Inc.), Itasca, IL 60143 (this isall that was listed as an address). I found mine at a local builder'ssupply. I have no idea whether it is a commonplace item or not. I doknow I had a hard time finding it though. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sat Jul 19 21:21:27 1997 VAA15777 for ; Sat, 19 Jul 1997 21:21:22 Subject: Re: Cane Sources Reed, Thanks for your perspective. I had heard on this list that the cane supply was short. Wayne had mentioned that the Demarest'swere expecting a shipment in time for the Grayling gathering,and I was hoping some would be left in early July. I never heardwhether the cane Wayne had for sale at Grayling was good, fair orpoor. I don't know the Demarests or the problems of their business, and I'msure that they would like to sell good cane to everybody at a fairprofit. I don't want to disparage their business practices, but if I were them,and my incoming supply of good cane was very low, the good stuff would go to my best, long term customers. The rest would go to people I never heard of, buying small quantities, like me. At least the good customers would be informed of good cane as it became available. There is something unusual about the cane market, from my point ofview. There is no grading. When I go to the sawmill, I can get #1 common cherry for $2.30 a board foot; Select& Better for $3.10;and the fancy stuff from there on up. If they are out of fancy stuff, the price of S&B doesn't go up. If I want S&B but its gone, I can makea rational decision about the alternatives. Cork rings, the same way. But with cane you pay the same rate and take your chances. I think some sort of grading scheme would be useful. Low grade, $15 a culm; medium$25;high grade $40. If I asked for medium and was told there was onlylow, I could decide to take it or wait. If demand for high grade way exceeded supply, the price could work its way up to an equilibrium.Demarest's would probably make more money. Well, there is nothing I can do about any of this so I'll try again ina few months. Its only a hobby; if I were trying to make a living itwould be a more serious.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Chris Bogart wrote: Frank Blame the Chinese not the Demarests. Harrold andEileen are only the importers.Harold in his talks always emphasizes the problemsof maintaining quality control with the Chinese under the Communistgovernment. He went over the recent problems at Grayling. There is no secret source of this stuff. We are just in a bad period. The only good stuff around is being held by rodmakerswho bought it awhile back. If any of them will sell to you (GeorgeMaurer)then go for it - but you will pay a premium. Others, like me will beholdingon to what I have for dear life until a good shipment shows up - then Iwillbuy several bundles again to make sure I have a good working supply.Expect the price of bamboo to be higher with the next shipment. Rememberyou are competing with other users of this bamboo and the rodmakinguseis just a drop in the bucket. There probably some fine chopsticks outtherethat would have made a terrific fly rod - the same goes for the corksupply -I have found some magnificant stuff in wine bottles - better than I have seen on any fly rod. Regards Chris from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sat Jul 19 22:10:24 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id UAA29172 for ; doing -bs Subject: Zoo Bamboo A friend of mine who works at a zoo in the Midwest e-mailed me to saythatat the zoo he has access to a number of pieces of bamboo, about 30- 40feetlong and about 3 inches in diameter. It was used for some kind ofbackdrop for one of the animal exhibits. Is there much chance this issomething good, or is it more likely a different species than tonkin? Thomas PenroseBend, OR from mrj@seanet.com Sat Jul 19 23:07:34 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA06026 for Subject: wall thickness of "good "cane The question regarding wall thickness of the culm got me to thinkingabout my stock. I have not read anywhere as to the actual figures thatare required to call it good wall thickness. The way I measured mine wasto lightly file the end of the 12 ft. culm (top end not the Butt end). Ihave I think 15 culms and what I measured was the outer ring of darkercane . When the cane got noticeably lighter, I figured that this was thepith starting and I stopped measuring. It was very subjective as towhere I stopped measuring. Is this correct? I had a magnifying glass tosee and I used my caliper resting on the outer edge and went inwarduntil the pith. My average measurement appears to be .090 or so. Thetotal wall thickness appears to be about twice that averaging around.200 or so. Does anyone have actual data on this or could you compareyour cane? I have not measured the Butt ends as I didn't want to dragout all my cane right now. The top ends are just sticking out there forall the world to see and it was pretty easy. If someone has made asimilar measurement on the butt end, I think I could be persuaded tomeasure mine in the interests of science. -- Martin Jensen from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jul 20 06:55:21 1997 Sun, 20 Jul 1997 19:52:54 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Cane Sources On Sat, 19 Jul 1997, Frank Stetzer wrote: I ordered cane from Demarest last week and it arrived Thursday.She (Mrs D?) said supply was very low and they would only sellme three culms. I'd say that 2 of the 3 are below rod buildingquality, being very thin-walled, light as a feather and coveredwith grower's marks. One has a wall thickness of 0.15 inches;another is 0.18 inches. For reference, a 3.5 inch floppy in itsshell is 0.13 inches thick. After you take off the enamel and pith,that ain't much left to work with. I guess I can make some ice fishing poles for bluegills... I wish they would price it by the pound. I'm sure that all the new hobby builders, like myself, are puttinga strain on the cane supply. But I'd be surprised if established, quantity buyers aren't getting better cane somewhere, somehow, thanthe stuff I just got. I've said enough. I received a letter from the Demarests last month in which it was explained that they (Demarests) have had only a single shipment of cane in the last 2 years but they are expecting shipments to arrive this year.The letter quotes problems of supply over the years ranging from wars, embargos, river pirates etc. Lately a new problem has arrisen due to the Chineese opening up Special Economic Zones which has had people movingto where the money is. I suppose that means the people left in the country need to grow rice or something rather than cut bamboo?One other problem not mentioned in the letter but one I've had some experience with is the Chineese don't have the same idea of supply and demand as I as an Aussie, let alone people in the US so you never realy know what you think you're buying till you see what's in the container. The supply problem will no doubt be over come one way or the other as the Demarests have been through it all before but in the mean time it's worth reflecting that one of the nice things about this cane rod thing is that it can't just be cranked out of a sausage making machine like plastics and that sometimes means being patient. Cold comfort I know. Nice time to try *NODELESS* construction and squeeze that little extra out of each culm? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sun Jul 20 11:51:39 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id JAA04873 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Cane Sources What is the minimum diameter of bamboo culms one should work with Thomas PenroseBend, OR from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jul 20 13:04:04 1997 Subject: Re: Cane Sources As for the bamboo shipment to Grayrock - There were 4 bundlesdelivered- 1 for sale to others and 3 for myself - or at least that was the plan - inthe end the bamboo sold was the cream of the 4 bundles. Because ofclassesand supply to other local makers I normally go through 40 or so culms ayearand usually order once or twice a year. Because of reserves I am still ingood shape but am looking forward to replenishing the stock. from talks with Harold and Eileen - they are hopeful of recieving a goodshipment this coming fall and will be able to get back on track. This is anexcellent example of what can happen with the import of commodities. Inthepast I have been asked to be involved with bulk purchases that wouldcircumvent the Demerasts and I have chose to pass. Over the years I'msurethat Harold and Eileen have paid for their education in their business and Itrust them as being the best source for the delivery of Tonkin bamboo. Idon't feel let down by the Demarests but rather thankful that they havespared us from ourselves.As for the bamboo that was delivered - I have several pre - embargopieces including samples of that used by Lyle Dickerson - He purchased the11/4" size - which some of use would turn our noses up at. It seems thatoverthe years the expectation of the quality of the bamboo has risen. A goodshare of the delivered bamboo would make rods BUT - todays expectationof thequality makes the pieces look less than usable.On a different note - I was just talking with Al Bellinger this morning- for those that aren't aware of it Al has been producing a mill for makingstrips with for that past year or so. To date he and the company havedelivered 12 or so unit. The mill is intended to produce strips to within.020" of the given dimensions - the final planing is then done with moretraditional methods. Al said that the current price is $2900. For anyoneinterested they are welcome to contact Al or Jeff for details. In the past Ihave helped on a computerized beveling unit and just the parts alone forthatwere in excess of that figure. Personally I prefer the sound of a Hock blade- but the information is there for those wishing to pursue it. Wayne from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sun Jul 20 14:56:48 1997 Subject: FS- Clemens butt wrap alignment tool Clemens "Improved butt wrap alignment tool" - Clemens P/N 60-00- 11,ListPrice $26.25 No instructions (order new ones from Clemens for a few bucks or less). Ihave no idea on how to use the tool - I acquired it with some otherstuff. Catalog claims it is great for laying out wrap patterns. Special- one only - $15.00 including Priority Mail shipping in the USA. Don Burns from sneider@ottawa.net Sun Jul 20 20:27:28 1997 dns.ottawa.net (8.8.6/1.5) with SMTP id VAA18310 for Subject: unsubscribe " The pride of the artisan in his art and it's uses is pride in himself....It is in his skill and ability to make things as he wishes them to be thathe rejoices."George Santayana from plipton@sunvalley.net Mon Jul 21 00:55:23 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-11203) with ESMTP id AAA163 0600 Subject: Cane Sources An old timer in the import business once told me "If it were easy,everyone would be in the business." At the Portland rod buildersgathering, Harold Demerast said rod builders were perhaps less than 1%of the Tonkin cane market. That doesn't give him much leverage with theChinese. To the Demerast's credit, they do not grade the culms when they sellless than bale quantities. You get the luck of the draw. In the balesthat I have received, a couple of culms were extra heavy and thickwalled and I am saving them for a special rod. Most culms seemed verygood and a few were pretty rough. By that I mean growers marks and burns from straightening. No culm was a tomato stake - unusable. If you arevery particular, a full bale will give you more choices. You could buy alife time supply of cane for less than the price of one bamboo rod. I think Wayne is close to the heart when he mentions expectations.Grading cane gets to be very subjective. What is aged cane? When is itdry enough? Does flaming and tempering make age irrelevant? I am not sosure about pre- embargo cane either. A couple of times I went to visitfellows who had a stash of "old" bamboo. They valued it quite highly!But some of it was in poor shape. They were not positive it was Tonkincane. None of it seemed superior to what the Demarest's sell. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jul 21 13:01:49 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 1997 11:01:28 -0700 Subject: test 4.0.995.52 test test test Patrick from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jul 21 17:06:26 1997 Subject: The Makers Rod - Tickets There has been an all out effort to get the tickets produced for the FFFconclave which is here in Grand Rapids starting Aug 5. It looks like wewillmake our target. But before we get in too much of a rush to put them onsalethe thought came up that it might be appropiate to take reservations fromthe2 list groups that are part of TTBBBQ. So for those wanting to reserve aticket or tickets for the Makers Rod 98 here is the announcement.HopefullyAOL won't really screw this up. The program is this - we (the raffle folks rather) will reserverequested tickets - when tickets are available (hopefully Aug 5 - 7) wewillnotifly you - we will hold the reservation for 30 days from when ticketsareavailable then they will go to the open market. If anyone has a particularnumber that they feel is luckier than another we will do our best toprovideyou with that number. The # 1 ticket has been reserved and will be part ofadisplay for in the 'Clubhouse'. There will be 500 tickets available.The reason that we are notifying the list is this - there are supposedto be several thousand folks at the conclave and if all goes well they willput a serious dent in the available number.Lastly because of the AOL thing - I will send a response to allreservation requests - so if you don't hear from me please resend - or call616 - 675 - 5894 between 7 - 11 pm EDT. Wayne from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Jul 21 17:26:16 1997 Subject: RE:The Makers Rod - Tickets Wayne, What's the price of the tickets? Don Burns from lawdevil@ix.netcom.com Mon Jul 21 18:25:56 1997 ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: The Makers Rod - Tickets WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The program is this - we (the raffle folks rather) will reserverequested tickets - when tickets are available (hopefully Aug 5 - 7) wewillnotifly you - we will hold the reservation for 30 days from when ticketsareavailable then they will go to the open market. Wayne, I know this has been posted before but frankly I didn't save it. I'msure others are in the same boat. How much will the tickets be? Also, what will the preceeds go for? Mike -- Mike Ray "...sex, death and fly-fishing;lawdevil@ix.netcom.com the meanings of life and sport;Atlanta, Georgia are we real participants or just observers,404-332-6661 and what kind of difference does it make?"Cashiers, NC John Gierach704-743-5625 from santiago@ricochet.net Mon Jul 21 19:08:47 1997 RAA09926 for ; Mon, 21 Jul 1997 17:08:33 Subject: Re: The Makers Rod - Tickets hi wayne, please reserve a ticket for leo santiago thanks... from jfoster@gte.net Mon Jul 21 21:31:11 1997 Subject: web site Chris just checked out your site again ...super...like your new logo. Didn't know the ROSE was also a fly Just start planing a rose with knodes.."the nodes noze" buy the way everyone.. we should all show the reverence that chris shows Jerry from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Tue Jul 22 08:16:12 1997 06:15:39 -0700 Subject: UNSUBSCRIBE Subject: Time: 9:02 AMOFFICE MEMO UNSUBSCRIBE Date: 7/22/97 from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jul 22 08:20:01 1997 OAA08745 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 14:24:39+0100 Subject: Gudebrod I'm trying to get a contact name, address, phone, email for Gudebrod - theAmerican varnish and whipping silks people. I have a technical questionforthem. Can anyone give me any of their company contact points. John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Jul 22 10:44:06 1997 Subject: RE:Gudebrod RO>I'm trying to get a contact name, address, phone, email for Gudebrod - theRO>American varnish and whipping silks people. I have a technicalquestion forRO>them. RO>Can anyone give me any of their company contact points. RO>John Cooper (England) John, from one of their flyers: Gudebrod, Inc.P.O. Box 357Pottstown, PA 19464 USA(610) 327-4050 FAX (610) 327-4588Easylink 62017160 LAter, Don Burns from thoman3@ibm.net Tue Jul 22 13:41:29 1997 ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 18:41:19 GMT Subject: Re: The Makers Rod - Tickets WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: There has been an all out effort to get the tickets produced for theFFFconclave which is here in Grand Rapids starting Aug 5. It looks like wewillmake our target. But before we get in too much of a rush to put them onsalethe thought came up that it might be appropiate to take reservations from the2 list groups that are part of TTBBBQ. So for those wanting to reserve aticket or tickets for the Makers Rod 98 here is the announcement.HopefullyAOL won't really screw this up.The program is this - we (the raffle folks rather) will reserverequested tickets - when tickets are available (hopefully Aug 5 - 7) wewillnotifly you - we will hold the reservation for 30 days from when ticketsareavailable then they will go to the open market. If anyone has a particularnumber that they feel is luckier than another we will do our best toprovideyou with that number. The # 1 ticket has been reserved and will be partof adisplay for in the 'Clubhouse'. There will be 500 tickets available.The reason that we are notifying the list is this - there are supposedto be several thousand folks at the conclave and if all goes well theywillput a serious dent in the available number.Lastly because of the AOL thing - I will send a response to allreservation requests - so if you don't hear from me please resend - orcall616 - 675 - 5894 between 7 - 11 pm EDT. WayneWayne,please reserve a raffle for Bruce Thoman. thanks from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jul 22 13:42:27 1997 Subject: Re: Cane Sources In a message dated 97-07-21 02:03:19 EDT, you write: I am not sosure about pre-embargo cane either. A couple of times I went to visitfellows who had a stash of "old" bamboo. They valued it quite highly!But some of it was in poor shape. They were not positive it was Tonkincane. None of it seemed superior to what the Demarest's sell. I'd like to second Philips' observations. I met a cane rod aficionado,and although he doesn't make rods himself, he had a stash - well, threeculms - of pre-embargo cane that he was holding on to. He said he wasgoing to have a master rodmaker make a rod for his grandson out ofthe cane when his grandson was old enough to appreciate a fine canerod. I looked at the culms, and they were okay, but not spectacular.Most of what I bought from Demarest was better. And I really do believethat heat treating and/or flaming makes the age of the cane irrelevant.Another thing I wonder about is does heat treatment make the typeof cane irrelevant? Will a flamed Calcutta cane rod perform as well?Has anybody tried a different type of cane? Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jul 22 13:42:35 1997 Subject: Spiral Rods? I'm beginning to feel like experimenting again, andI've seen references to a spiral split cane rod. Howare they made? What are the advantages ordisadvantages? I was intrigued about the impregnatedrods, but nobody came up with any specific polymerto use or where to get it. Shall we have a spiral vs.straight discussion like the node vs. nodeless?Just kidding... I am interested in spiral consructionthough. Darryl Hayashida from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Tue Jul 22 14:32:26 1997 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Cane Sources On a slightly different perspective... If you live in the southern U.S. you could buy a 5 gallon bucketof Tonkin cane shoots (for a $100 U.S. dollars), plant them in yourbackyard and wait for them to mature in 5-6 years and still getpoor culms. It makes that 6-12 month wait for the Demerest shipment not seemso bad after all. -Jerry (no, the other one)Ballard from d-deloach1@ti.com Tue Jul 22 15:19:56 1997 with ESMTP id PAA20597 for ; Tue, 22 Jul dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id PJUTAWAP; Tue,22 Jul 1997 15:19:22 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: re: Spiral Rods? Darryl: Tom Smithwick is a modern maker who builds spirals. I cast one of hissevenfooters recently and it was really nice. Medium-fast and very smooth. Theadvantage of spiral rods is their slightly faster actions. The primarydisadvantage is their complex jig setup required for gluing in the spiral. Smithwick's article on spirals appears in The Best of the Planing Formbook. Don DeLoach ------------------Original text I'm beginning to feel like experimenting again, andI've seen references to a spiral split cane rod. Howare they made? What are the advantages ordisadvantages? I was intrigued about the impregnatedrods, but nobody came up with any specific polymerto use or where to get it. Shall we have a spiral vs.straight discussion like the node vs. nodeless?Just kidding... I am interested in spiral consructionthough. Darryl Hayashida from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jul 22 15:23:43 1997 Subject: Re: Gudebrod John Try http://www.vitinc.com/nn/mud/cat/finish.html I'll post it on the archive Jerry from d-deloach1@ti.com Tue Jul 22 15:24:18 1997 (8.8.5) with ESMTP id PAA19479 for ; Tue, dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id IKUXAUBH; Tue,22 Jul 1997 15:23:45 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: rod wrapping A basic question for someone who has never wrapped a rod before, Do any of you attach the guide feet with epoxy before laying in the silkwrappings? I'm finishing a tung oiled rod that will only have the varnishoverthe wraps when done--this doen't seem like it will be strong enough in thelongrun without a small amount of Devcon under the wraps. Thoughts anyone? T-minus four days till Rod #1 gets broken in at the Pine River in SWColorado!! Don D. from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Tue Jul 22 15:52:46 1997 Subject: Re: rod wrapping At 03:23 PM 7/22/97 -0700, you wrote:A basic question for someone who has never wrapped a rod before, Do any of you attach the guide feet with epoxy before laying in the silkwrappings? I'm finishing a tung oiled rod that will only have the varnishoverthe wraps when done--this doen't seem like it will be strong enough inthe longrun without a small amount of Devcon under the wraps. Thoughts anyone? T-minus four days till Rod #1 gets broken in at the Pine River in SWColorado!! Don D. just use little strips of masking tape to hold the guides on, then after thethread has begun to wrap the guide feet and the guide is secured, take offthe tape and finish the wrap....no need for any type of epoxy underneath theguides....it is strong enough....have never used epoxy under guides, andhave never had problems with lose guides.....i'm one step ahead of you, ifinished my first rod last Friday, and fished it this past weekend....noproblems....yet at least!! good luck!! ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////______MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net__/// \\\\_\\\\___________http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/____________\\\____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o------- ---------------------------------------'''''''/||\/||||\ from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jul 22 15:55:45 1997 Subject: Re: web site YA - and who said Brook trout can't jump from ghilbers@earthlink.net Tue Jul 22 15:56:41 1997 Subject: Planes This question is primarily for Wayne, but maybe some others might havesome input. Wayne; Agroup of us int eh San Diego area are under taking our first attemptat this together. (Talk about the blind leading the blind....) One ofour main sources of information is your book. Sunday a question came upon one of the methods you tlked about for tunning a plane sole, and Ithought you might be able to shed some light on it. At the bottom ofpage 23, you talk about placing a .0005 piece of shim stock between thetongue and the surface that it seat against. To put it bluntly, I don'tunderstand. Does the shim extend below the cutting edge or does itcause the sole to bulge abit below the tongue? Also, I have been following the string about the availability of cane.I got mine from Tuxedo Cane Rods in Stockton, Ca., and he indicated hehad a supply of '95 crop available. If anyone is interested, let meknow and I will supply and address and number. Thank YouGary Hilbers from harry37@epix.net Tue Jul 22 17:38:55 1997 SAA12693 Subject: Re: The Makers Rod - Tickets Wayne, I know I asked to be put on the list a few weeks ago when the discussionfirst started about the Makers Rod, but I just want to be certain thatI'm on the list. Please reserve a ticket for Greg Kuntz Thanks--Let me know where to send the check! Greg Kuntz from mrj@seanet.com Tue Jul 22 17:57:17 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09550 for Subject: Re: Spiral Rods? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I'm beginning to feel like experimenting again, andI've seen references to a spiral split cane rod. Howare they made? What are the advantages ordisadvantages? I was intrigued about the impregnatedrods, but nobody came up with any specific polymerto use or where to get it. Shall we have a spiral vs.straight discussion like the node vs. nodeless?Just kidding... I am interested in spiral consructionthough. Darryl HayashidaLook for a book by Letcher Lambuth called "The Anglers Workshop". Thisguy built spiral rods as you are talking about. Apparently what he doesis to build a jig and when the rod is glued up he clamps each sectionwith one flat turn for each guide. This is a gross simplification of theprocess but it is the gist of it. There are others who have used thespiral method. Someone back east I forget who. -- Martin Jensen from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jul 22 18:17:55 1997 TAA03358 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:34:30-0400 Subject: Re: web site Jerry The "Rose" is for the Rose River that flows off the east side ofthe BlueRidge - the local TU chapter has their kids day there each year.It is really a very nice mountain stream - next stream over is the storiedRapidan. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jul 22 18:27:28 1997 TAA03466 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:44:07-0400 Subject: Re: web site YA - and who said Brook trout can't jump Wayne Then they haven't fished for the natives we have here. Itis amazing what they can do - watch them swim upstream - just likesalmonwhen they need to. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jul 22 18:31:42 1997 TAA03533 for ; Tue, 22 Jul 1997 19:48:21-0400 Subject: Re: Spiral Rods? Darryl You might want to do a match set of right hand versusleft hand spiral rods for each hemisphere - if you do them nodeless then you will have a world's first. Also Lambuthalso tried wraping his rods completely in silk! The possibilitiesare endless. Regards Chris from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jul 22 18:44:53 1997 Subject: The Makers Rod 98 Raffle Grayling, MI - the Rodmakers and the Flyfishing Forum from CompuServe.To topoff the gatherings The Trout Bum BBQ was begun. A mixture of food andsport.But from the start it was always the intent to raise some money for thelocalresources. This past June some $3000 dollars was raised. Well in the weehours of the post TTBBBQ wake held at Vic Edwards garage the idea forTheMakers Rod came about and all makers present (all 3 of us) weresupportive. The Grand Prize for TTBBBQ IV (that stands for 4 not the method ofintake) will be The Makers Rod 98 which consists of the following items:a) a 7' 6" # 4 weight - 3 piece bamboo fly rod made by 28 rod makers b) a custom sewn rod bag by Dorothy Schrammc) a hand tooled and dyed leather rod case by James Acordd) a Briarwood reele) a fly line custom designed by Bruce Richards and produced by 3M -Scientific Angler The raffle tickets will feature a limited edition border print by LarryCory - noted Michigan wildlife artist. There will be 500 tickets availableand the cost will be $50 (fifty dollars) each. The money raised from thisraffle will be equally divided between the following - the Manistee andAuSable River Restoration Funds and the George Griffith Foundation.Becauseof the lack of a 501C by TTBBBQ the raffle tickets will be sold by theGeorgeMason Chapter of Trout Unlimited with the money forwarded to theappropiategroups. It isn't hard to see that several of us - rodmakers and others involvedwith this project have taken a serious stand to improve our localresources.The beneficiary groups have track records for finding matching dollars forthose that they raise so the potential impact of this raffle could approachthe $100,000 marker. Most of the folks involved with making the fly rod have fished thestreams that the raffle is supporting. And most will recognize the streamnames - but for those that don't let me share this - many years ago therewasanother group of flyfishers that were equally concerned with doingsomethingabout the streams that they fished. They had a meeting in a cottage on thebanks of the AuSable - the cottage was owned by George Griffith - and attheend of the meeting Trout Unlimited had been formed. It's the dream ofmanythat as the two groups come to Grayling in the years to come that all willbeable to see their support dollars at work in improving the trout habitat.At present there is the wait for a raffle license required by our statelaws - that approval is expected within days. When approved the projecthasalready secured the support of the major flyfishing publications - theartwork is finished and is being adapted to a home page that will befeaturedat several locations. All are expecting that the raffle will be a sell outwithin a short time. And if I can put Jim Butler on a decent fish in acouple of weeks we might get more support than what we think.As I posted yesterday - reseverations are being taken for raffle tickets from the two list groups - once the tickets are available (Aug 5 - 7) youwill be notified and have 30 days to act. Because of AOL's great reputationat delivering the mail - I will send a response to those asking to reservetickets. For those wanting a favorite number - every effort will be madetoprovide that numbered ticket - # 1 has been reserved for display at 'TheClubhouse'. Wayne Ps - If you would - to reduce the load of the list - please E-mailresponsesto me personally - waynecatt@aol.com from peerlessrod@earthlink.net Tue Jul 22 20:44:28 1997 Subject: 4 sided planing forms I would appreciate any help I can get in locating a 4 sided planingform. I've faxed, E-mailed and called George Barnes with no reply. Frank Armbruster at Colorado Bootstrap has none and is not planinganother production run. If you know of one for sale E-mail me atpeerlessrod@earthlink.net Thanx Jim Kaelin of Peerless Rods. from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Jul 22 22:32:58 1997 Subject: Re: Planes Gary -Don't think of it as the blind leading the blind - consider it assharing an adventure together. If you need help or have questions you haveagreat resource with all the members of the list right at your keyboard.The answer - the shim is placed between the body of the plane and thefoot - the shims would go on the side rails of the body - the part of thebody that the foot seats against. By placing the shim there beforesurfacingyou cause the foot to stick out by .0005" - then after surfacing the soletheshims are removed. This causes the foot to be recessed by the thickness ofthe shim stock. The thought is that the edge of the blade can then be justabove the remainder of the sole of the plane and you don't dig into theformsas easily when you are down to the final few.If you are new to the list a great service that Jerry Foster has done at - http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmJerry has a real cornucopia of information at his location - it's a mustsee. As far as the bamboo supply - for me it becomes more of a personalissuebased on our families relationship with Harold and Eileen - I have enoughtoget by with and I will wait for the next shipment - Best Of Luck To The Group Wayne from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jul 23 00:32:33 1997 Subject: Re: Planes In a message dated 97-07-23 00:11:26 EDT, you write: The answer - the shim is placed between the body of the plane andthefoot - the shims would go on the side rails of the body - the part of thebody that the foot seats against. By placing the shim there beforesurfacingyou cause the foot to stick out by .0005" - then after surfacing the sole the shims are removed. This causes the foot to be recessed by thethicknessofthe shim stock. The thought is that the edge of the blade can then bejustabove the remainder of the sole of the plane and you don't dig into the forms as easily when you are down to the final few. Another way to do this is to groove your plane sole. Check out BruceConnors' FAQ. It's listed as a link from Jerry Fosters' Web Page. Darryl Hayashida from jbr842@airmail.net Wed Jul 23 05:34:24 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.181) with smtp for Subject: Re: Reservation Response WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Jim -I recieved your request to reserve (2) tickets for The Makers Rod 98 - Iwill send you the when and where to send money when available Thank You For Your SupportWayne Wayne, Thank you for your prompt reply. I just wanted to let you know what anincredibly novel idea this is....I love cane and have your book alongwith Carmichael/Garrison's and have found them facinating reading...but,because of my many other interests I may never get around to planing anycane and because this old cop has a vacation/retirement house inColorado that I have to use to justify its cost, I may never get to fishthe Ausable or any other of your wonderful Northern waters; however, Ican think of no better use for my hard-earned dollars than to helpguarantee that those streams will be there for our kids and grandkids toenjoy. Maybe we are finally making some progress in keeping thedevelopers, industrialists, and greedy politicians from totally ruiningwhat little good water we have left. May God bless you and the rest ofthe volunteers in this most selfless endeavor.....thanks, Guys, forbeing such good stewards of these precious resources. It just goes toshow what private groups can accomplish without the red tape that seemsto accompany any proposal put to the bureaucracy. But, as a littleplaque that once hung over my desk in the Intelligence Division said,"Crime wouldn't pay if the government ran it". Let's fish...... Cordially, Jim "the old cop from Dallas" Bryan from dalzell@titan.tcn.net Wed Jul 23 08:17:27 1997 titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id JAA26647 for Subject: Re: 4 sided planing forms gwbarnes@gwi.net Is George's new e-mail address. I would appreciate any help I can get in locating a 4 sided planingform. I've faxed, E-mailed and called George Barnes with no reply. Frank Armbruster at Colorado Bootstrap has none and is not planinganother production run. If you know of one for sale E-mail me atpeerlessrod@earthlink.net Thanx Jim Kaelin of Peerless Rods. from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed Jul 23 09:26:32 1997 with ESMTP id JAA00742 for ; Wed, 23 Jul Subject: Tuxedo Cane Anybody get cane from them lately? How does it compare to Demarest? Don D. from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Jul 23 09:26:37 1997 CDT Subject: Re: Reservation Response Jim "the old cop from Dallas" Bryan seez... ...but, because of my many other interests I may never get around to planing any cane and because this old cop has a vacation/retirementhouse in Colorado that I have to use to justify its cost ... oh-oh, now ya done it Jim! You do know that as a subscriber to theRODMAKERS list, AND the owner of a vacation home in Colorado, youare required to host wayward rodmakers, and offer your services asfishing guide to said wayward rodmakers looking for a new place tofish, don't you??? :-) Mike - wayward rodmaker extraordinaire - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Jul 23 09:37:40 1997 Subject: Re: Spiral Rods? Darryl - I think you would find a spiral rod to be a very rewarding project.I have built several, and find them to be excellent casters. Some of thespiral rods were built as matched sets, ie. one straight rod and one spiralbuilt from the same cane at the same time. In every case the spiral rodwasthe superior caster. As Martin suggests, you do have to build a jig. The jigmay look complex, but in fact is fairly simple to build. I would estimate 1hour building time if you have a bandsaw and drill press, 2-3 hours timewithhand tools. I don't want to take a lot of bandwidth blathering on about oneof my favorite rodbuilding topics. If you contact me off list, I would behappy to supply you with whatever information you need to proceed. - TomP.S. I expect to bring some spiral rods to the Catskill Gathering this year from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Jul 23 09:46:18 1997 Subject: Cane strip Wayne, The cane strip was delivered to me, but no information wasattached. Iassume you will be contacting with dimensions, node spacing, etc? Nicelooking piece of cane BTW. I'm afraid I couldn't make the hex hatch. Bigfamily wedding, and you don't want a big bunch of Irishmen as enemies.Seeyou in the Catskills.------Tom from jbr842@airmail.net Wed Jul 23 12:25:47 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.181) with smtp for Subject: Re: Reservation Response Michael Biondo wrote: Jim "the old cop from Dallas" Bryan seez... ...but, because of my many other interests I may never get around toplaning any cane and because this old cop has a vacation/retirementhousein Colorado that I have to use to justify its cost ... oh-oh, now ya done it Jim! You do know that as a subscriber to theRODMAKERS list, AND the owner of a vacation home in Colorado, youare required to host wayward rodmakers, and offer your services asfishing guide to said wayward rodmakers looking for a new place tofish, don't you??? :-) Mike - wayward rodmaker extraordinaire - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Mike.... You assume a lot when you refer to me as a guide!!!!!Would love to rip a tippet with you someday, however. Your witty andinformative replies are a joy to me as I peruse these pages... Jim "cane bender" Bryan from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Wed Jul 23 13:42:04 1997 0000 Subject: Garrison taper does anyone have the taper for a Garrison 208P....saw a reproduction of itin a catalog, but can't seem to find the taper ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////______MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net__/// \\\\_\\\\___________http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/____________\\\____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o------- ---------------------------------------'''''''/||\/||||\ from d-deloach1@ti.com Wed Jul 23 16:06:15 1997 (8.8.5) with ESMTP id QAA03397 for ; Wed, Subject: Re: Reservation Response Jim: Alright, another Texan on the list! I'm from Dallas also, and so is JerryFoster who does the web page "Rodmakers" Where in Colo. do you go? My girlfriend and I are leaving the day aftertomorrow for the a cabin on the pine river near Durango. E--mail back off the list Don DeLoach ------------------Original text WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Jim -I recieved your request to reserve (2) tickets for The Makers Rod 98 -I> will send you the when and where to send money when available Thank You For Your SupportWayne Wayne, Thank you for your prompt reply. I just wanted to let you know what anincredibly novel idea this is....I love cane and have your book alongwith Carmichael/Garrison's and have found them facinating reading...but,because of my many other interests I may never get around to planing anycane and because this old cop has a vacation/retirement house inColorado that I have to use to justify its cost, I may never get to fishthe Ausable or any other of your wonderful Northern waters; however, Ican think of no better use for my hard-earned dollars than to helpguarantee that those streams will be there for our kids and grandkids toenjoy. Maybe we are finally making some progress in keeping thedevelopers, industrialists, and greedy politicians from totally ruiningwhat little good water we have left. May God bless you and the rest ofthe volunteers in this most selfless endeavor.....thanks, Guys, forbeing such good stewards of these precious resources. It just goes toshow what private groups can accomplish without the red tape that seemsto accompany any proposal put to the bureaucracy. But, as a littleplaque that once hung over my desk in the Intelligence Division said,"Crime wouldn't pay if the government ran it". Let's fish...... Cordially, Jim "the old cop from Dallas" Bryan from ghilbers@earthlink.net Wed Jul 23 17:42:09 1997 Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane Don DeLoach wrote: Anybody get cane from them lately? How does it compare to Demarest? Don D.Don;I have received seventeen pieces from them a couple of months ago. Since this is a class/club project, he offered me farmers mark at areduced price. It was cosmeticly flawed as I expected. But as far asthe thickness of the power fibers, there is no problem. As to how itcompares to Demarest, I can't say in that I've never ordered from them.I do have a friend who has, and he says the stuff we got is a good asanything else we would get. The across the line prices were a littlelower and I saved a little on shipping since I live on the west coast. Gary from ghilbers@earthlink.net Wed Jul 23 18:52:04 1997 Subject: Torch OK, next question. I have just finished fileing the nodes (nobody nodesthe troubles I've seen.....)and done my first split. Now I am ready toflame it. It didn't take long to figure out that my wifes cigarettelighter wasn't going to get it. I know that the butane torch that I have next step up seems to be a Weler Brazing torch. It goes to about 3500degrees. Is this hot enough. Gary from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Jul 23 19:28:55 1997 Subject: #@&* Fly Some refer to bamboo rodmakers as - well let's say a little less thannormal - hidden away in our shops concocting something. A touch of this adash of whatever. Well with the latest happening I found myself thinkingalong such lines early this morning.It seems that somehow insectous pestous penetrated the defenses andgot afoot( or leg depending on definition) stuck in the final coat of varnish on arod - sorta the fly in the ointment. When broken loose of the butt sectionthere remained this tiny dimple in the surface - the type of thing thatshould be sanded and recoated. But with the hour or frustration the normalbecame the extreme.Sitting there I recalled a conversation with Jess Wells about recreatingthe smell of the Payne finish. Jess - a violin maker knows varnishes andcanmake them from scratch. According to Jess anything that evaporates canbeused as a thinner. The idea then was to add citrucell ( juice from orangepeel) to varnish to add the infamous fragrance. Last night the thought ofthemoment was to use DEET. Perhaps enough so that even was a 15 year afterlifethere would be no need for repellant by the user of the fly rod. from sall@eol.ime.net Wed Jul 23 19:56:14 1997 Subject: Re:ferruless rods and cane on the subject of cane, I am glad for the comments about the cane supplyrecently. I was about to buy a bale of cane, figured it would last me afew years, I'll wait until this fall. I built a ferruless rod this winter. Some time ago there was an articlein the planing form on ferruless rods from a builder in France. Idecided to try so I built two rods both 8'0'' from the taper inGarrison's book. The rod with the ferrules is a bit soft for my tastes,feels like it needs more heft below the butt section ferrule. I tried a5 and 6 weight on it and it did not seem to make a difference. Both rods were built from the same culm and they turned out within 2 or3 thousands on the butts and closer on the tips. The ferruless rod throws a 6 wt line in a pleasant way by my tastes ( Itend to fish ponds and some larger streams). I am actually quite pleasedwith the results and must admit the French rod builder was right aboutthe difference in action. I thought it would slip but the tape holds ittogether quite well. I did see an antique rod once that was puttogether this way but using string of course not tape. Has anyone else tried this? Mike from rcurry@jlc.net Wed Jul 23 19:59:55 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA14664 for Subject: Re: Cane Sources SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Another thing I wonder about is does heat treatment make the typeof cane irrelevant? Will a flamed Calcutta cane rod perform as well?Has anybody tried a different type of cane? Darryl HayashidaDarryl,My experience with Calcutta cane has only been with the finishedrods,I own a few (too many, I guess), however, I have never seen that thematerial was in any way inferior to Tonkin. As I understand it, the mainreason for migrating to Tonkin was that, due to insect damage and otherfactors, Calcutta had a huge waste factor. In fact, Dickerson made a fewCalcutta cane rods and is quoted in Keane's book as saying that "it wasjust like working with ivory".I don't have any flamed Calcutta rods, so I don't have any idea.I have seen an Gene Edwards rod made with Louisiana cane. It wasuuuuuuuuugly, mottled gray.Best regards,Reed from sall@eol.ime.net Wed Jul 23 20:02:25 1997 Subject: rod wrapping RO>A basic question for someone who has never wrapped a rod before, RO>Do any of you attach the guide feet with epoxy before laying in the silkRO>wrappings? I'm finishing a tung oiled rod that will only have thevarnish ovRO>the wraps when done--this doen't seem like it will be strong enough inthe lRO>run without a small amount of Devcon under the wraps. RO>Thoughts anyone? RO>T-minus four days till Rod #1 gets broken in at the Pine River in SWColorad RO>Don D. I have wrapped three rods with only varnish over the silk and have noproblem. the guide is actually held on by the silk much the same way aleaf curler bug can wrap a leaf with only those tiny little threads it'sthe sum total of the forc of each thread that holds it on. Mike from tworiver@mtnhome.com Wed Jul 23 20:48:43 1997 mail.cei.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA26521; Wed, 23 Jul 1997 Subject: Re: Cane Sources With regards to Calcutta=what specie is it? ----------: SalarFly@aol.com wrote:: : > Another thing I wonder about is does heat treatment make the type: > of cane irrelevant? Will a flamed Calcutta cane rod perform as well?: > Has anybody tried a different type of cane?: > : > Darryl Hayashida: Darryl,: My experience with Calcutta cane has only been with the finishedrods,: I own a few (too many, I guess), however, I have never seen that the: material was in any way inferior to Tonkin. As I understand it, the main: reason for migrating to Tonkin was that, due to insect damage and other: factors, Calcutta had a huge waste factor. In fact, Dickerson made a few: Calcutta cane rods and is quoted in Keane's book as saying that "it was: just like working with ivory".: I don't have any flamed Calcutta rods, so I don't have any idea.: I have seen an Gene Edwards rod made with Louisiana cane. It was: uuuuuuuuugly, mottled gray.: Best regards,: Reed: from JCZIMNY@dol.net Wed Jul 23 21:25:14 1997 Subject: Re: 4 sided planing forms Thomas Dalzell wrote: gwbarnes@gwi.net Is George's new e-mail address. I would appreciate any help I can get in locating a 4 sided planingform. I've faxed, E-mailed and called George Barnes with no reply.Frank Armbruster at Colorado Bootstrap has none and is not planinganother production run. If you know of one for sale E-mail me atpeerlessrod@earthlink.net Thanx Jim Kaelin of Peerless Rods. Jim,Why not order a dozen sets from Frank. You're free to use the designthat Per Brandin and I developed. You'll just have to find 11 otherinterested makers to purchase a set. That shouldn't be too difficult.John Zimny from peerlessrod@earthlink.net Wed Jul 23 23:09:04 1997 Subject: Re: 4 sided planing forms John Zimny wrote: Thomas Dalzell wrote: gwbarnes@gwi.net Is George's new e-mail address. I would appreciate any help I can get in locating a 4 sided planingform. I've faxed, E-mailed and called George Barnes with no reply.Frank Armbruster at Colorado Bootstrap has none and is not planinganother production run. If you know of one for sale E-mail me atpeerlessrod@earthlink.net Thanx Jim Kaelin of Peerless Rods. Jim,Why not order a dozen sets from Frank. You're free to use the designthat Per Brandin and I developed. You'll just have to find 11 otherinterested makers to purchase a set. That shouldn't be too difficult.John ZimnyJohn, I just ordered 4 sidedforms from George Barnes. I amalso interested in the forms you developed with Per and Frank. Since Ido not know what makes one set of quad forms more desireable thananother, I would appreciate any information on the subject. I wouldgreatly appreciate any information on a source for quad ferrules andwinding checks. Thanks for your kindhelp! Jim Kaelin from peerlessrod@earthlink.net Wed Jul 23 23:15:18 1997 Subject: Re: 4 sided planing forms John Zimny wrote: Thomas Dalzell wrote: gwbarnes@gwi.net Is George's new e-mail address. I would appreciate any help I can get in locating a 4 sided planingform. I've faxed, E-mailed and called George Barnes with no reply.Frank Armbruster at Colorado Bootstrap has none and is not planinganother production run. If you know of one for sale E-mail me atpeerlessrod@earthlink.net Thanx Jim Kaelin of Peerless Rods. Jim,Why not order a dozen sets from Frank. You're free to use the designthat Per Brandin and I developed. You'll just have to find 11 otherinterested makers to purchase a set. That shouldn't be too difficult.John ZimnyJohn, I just ordered 4 sided forms from George Barnes. Thanks JimKaelin from mrj@seanet.com Thu Jul 24 00:31:33 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA27445 for Subject: Re: Torch Gary Hilbers wrote:...)and done my first split. Now I am ready toflame it. next step up seems to be a Weler Brazing torch. It goes to about 3500degrees. Is this hot enough. Gary 3500 degrees is actually way way too hot. You can use the torch OK butyou will have to hold it back from the flame a bit. The first severalculms I flamed by myself was done with a "rosebud" welding torch. Thisproduces a flame about 3 inches in diameter. The size is what you want.What I made now and what you could buy if you want to is a Weed burnertorch that runs off of Propane. I have seen them at Eagle Hardware. Theyrun about $60.00 or so. This will produce a nice large flame and it isplenty hot enough. I made my own by using a 2 inch diameter piece ofpipe. The flame nozzle is a grease zerk with the ball punched out. Ibuilt mine for about $5.00 or so using materials from work. I have awelder at work and a lots of hand tools which you would need. If you areinterested I could tell you more about the construction of mine of linemaybe snail mail. A weed burner should work fine and it runs withpropane which I think will be less likely to soot up the bamboo thanoxe- cetalene which I assume you are talking about using as you mention3500 degrees heat level. -- Martin Jensen from jbr842@airmail.net Thu Jul 24 01:57:38 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.181) with smtp for Subject: Re: #@&* Fly WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Some refer to bamboo rodmakers as - well let's say a little less thannormal - hidden away in our shops concocting something. A touch of thisadash of whatever. Well with the latest happening I found myself thinkingalong such lines early this morning.It seems that somehow insectous pestous penetrated the defenses andgot afoot( or leg depending on definition) stuck in the final coat of varnish onarod - sorta the fly in the ointment. When broken loose of the butt sectionthere remained this tiny dimple in the surface - the type of thing thatshould be sanded and recoated. But with the hour or frustration thenormalbecame the extreme.Sitting there I recalled a conversation with Jess Wells aboutrecreatingthe smell of the Payne finish. Jess - a violin maker knows varnishes andcanmake them from scratch. According to Jess anything that evaporates canbeused as a thinner. The idea then was to add citrucell ( juice from orangepeel) to varnish to add the infamous fragrance. Last night the thought ofthemoment was to use DEET. Perhaps enough so that even was a 15 yearafter lifethere would be no need for repellant by the user of the fly rod. Wayne.... With our skeeters and chiggers here in Texas and the black-flies I haveread about up in your country, you may have shead a whole new(picatorially speaking) light on the concept of "scratch and sniff".. Jim from harry37@epix.net Thu Jul 24 07:08:24 1997 IAA24343 Subject: Re: The Makers Rod 98 Raffle To the list-- I'm going to be in the SW Montana area next week (Big Sky)--obviously,the Gallatin and Madison will be on my list. Does anyone have anysuggestions or know how any water in that area's fishing? I'll be thereon business and be able to fish late afternoons and evenings all week,and driving a few hours isn't a problem for good water----E-mail me at harry37@epix.net or post any info to the listThanks in advance Greg Kuntz from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jul 24 08:00:48 1997 Subject: Spiral rod update Since there has been some recent interest, I thought I should update theinfoin TPF article, which is now several years old. I remain convinced that thespiral rod is a superior caster. Understand that I am talking about distancecasting, if you are a small stream fisherman you don't need a spiral rod,unless the novelty appeals to you. A spiral rod will feel slightly stiffer atshort ranges. Where you really feel the difference is on long casts, therodscontinue to cast well beyond the point where a straight rod would havequit. As I mentioned in the article, straightening is a problem. If you heat thesection to the point where the glue softens, the twist will unwind andmessup the guide spacing. I have learned a great deal about cold straighteningbymassaging the rod with my hands, and also about the use of light heat andmassage combination. Getting the guide spacing exactly as planned stilleludes me, but I still have not made an un-usable section. I've learned howto adjust guide positions a bit by twisting the feet slightly. I've never hada finished rod unwind, even slightly. My favorite configuration for a spiral rod is a two piece two tip rodwith one spiral tip and one straight one. The stiffer spiral tip forces thebutt to bend more, and produces a slower, but more powerful action. Themoreflexible straight tip produces a faster action. The effect is much like thewet fly/dry fly tip rods that some makers used to make. It gives a gooddemonstration of the effects of spiraling without having to build tworods.The extra tweaking to complete a spiral rod would drive a professionalmad,he would never get paid for the time. The spiral rod is really only fit foran amateur builder with enough experience to take on a bit more challenge.--Tom from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Jul 24 09:17:04 1997 Subject: Re: Spiral rod update Tom "Twisted" Smithwick sayeth... I have learned a great deal about cold straightening bymassaging the rod with my hands, and also about the use of light heat and massage combination. Tom, is there anything you can share with us about "coldstraightening", or is it one of those "touchy-feeling","I guess you had to be there" type of techniques. I have tried on a couple of occasions to cold straightena section with no success. I massaged, and massaged somemore, and the set was still there...though the rod did seem to develop quite a smile in the process!!! :-) Mike - slightly bent - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Thu Jul 24 10:25:34 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA10359 +0000 Subject: SW Montana last week Greg Kuntz wrote: To the list-- I'm going to be in the SW Montana area next week (Big Sky)--obviously,the Gallatin and Madison will be on my list. Does anyone have anysuggestions or know how any water in that area's fishing? I'll be thereon business and be able to fish late afternoons and evenings all week,and driving a few hours isn't a problem for good water----E-mail me at harry37@epix.net or post any info to the listThanks in advance Greg KuntzGreg:Last week the Big Hole and the Beaverhead were fishing well. Latemorning hatch of small stones on the Beaverhead, afternoon hatch of PMD and nymphs (beadhead GRHE and Pheasant tails) all day except around noon changed depending on which run you were on. The Missouri fished verywell on Wooly buggers with bullet heads, size 6! (the smaller the drythe better on the Beaverhead. Ended up with #20.) On the lakes alittle north of where you are going it was elk hair caddis after aboutfour in the afternoon and nymphs all day. The wind was a big bigproblem on the lakes in the north. Of course by next week it could allbe very different. Whirling disease is supposed to be in all threerivers but did not affect the fishing yet. Fish caught were rainbows,browns and one grayling. Average size about 17 inches on the rivers,with the largest about 20. Dick Schiller (KY) from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Jul 24 10:56:21 1997 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA04228 for Subject: Calcutta cane. The comments of the past few days have really renewed thatinterest. Does anyone know a source of good Calcutta cane? George Barnesgwbarnes@gwi.net from SacMan6@aol.com Thu Jul 24 11:02:44 1997 Subject: Re: The Makers Rod 98 Raffle Greg,Try contacting the Madison River Outfitters in West Yellowstone Montana.Lotsof info. Sorry I dont have the numer.Dan from SacMan6@aol.com Thu Jul 24 11:12:12 1997 Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane Gary,Could you please post how to get in contact with Tuxedo.ThanksDan from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jul 24 11:17:57 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA147851072; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 09:17:52 -0700 Subject: Re: #@&* Fly Wayne, I think you're on to something here. Paint stores sell a product that can be added to paint to ward off bugs after the paint is dry. I wonder if I added some to my varnish tank if it would keep off the mosquitos I've been dealing with on the upper Deschutes? People who see me casting think I'ma spastic, but "I'm only trying to wave the mosquitos off" I tell them. It's a good excuse for my style, anyway. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Jul 24 11:29:39 1997 with ESMTP id LAA05834 for ; Thu, 24 Jul dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id WNQEBEAE; Thu,24 Jul 1997 11:29:04 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane test... from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jul 24 12:26:08 1997 Subject: Re: Spiral rod update In a message dated 7/24/97 4:25:59 PM, you wrote: Mike - I hesitate to describe this procedure in this company, but here goesanyway. You simply get a firm grasp on the shaft and vigorously slide yourhand back in forth. You should have a firm grip, and your thumb shouldpressin the direction you want curvature to go. Cold straightening is somethingofa misnomer since you do need to generate some heat. In general you willhavebetter success the nearer to the tip you are. In the thicker sections someadditional heat will probably be necessary. ( I don't want to hear ANYcomments from Chris B! )---- Tom from penr0295@uidaho.edu Thu Jul 24 14:19:07 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id MAA23360 for ; doing -bs Subject: Splicing glue I have some URAC 185 coming in the mail, but in the meantime there is asingle splice I would like to do on one spline. Is there a readilyavailable glue that I could use for this that would be entirely suitable(I would prefer some water resistance)? Thomas PenroseBend, OR from dalzell@titan.tcn.net Thu Jul 24 15:07:42 1997 titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA02183 for Subject: Re: Splicing glue I have some URAC 185 coming in the mail, but in the meantime there is asingle splice I would like to do on one spline. Is there a readilyavailable glue that I could use for this that would be entirely suitable(I would prefer some water resistance)? Thomas PenroseBend, OR You have to figure that all you need to do is make the splice stronger thana filed down node. For this kind of scarphing, almost any epoxy is good.even though five-minute epoxy is less than totally waterproof unless youexpect your rod to play sub-mariner even more so than say an epoxy crabimitation, I wouldn't worry about it. The greatter risk with epoxy isexcesive squeeze out, so don't over-clamp, or use a brand that while notthinned, penetrates well, like WEST, which is available in most boatshops.WEST would be my first choice, but I keep it arround for other purposes, Iisn't cheap, but it is the best glue I know of for scarphs where fire isn'ta mojor issue (or on boats even if it is). I know someone who made abeautiful rod using urethane glue for the splices, but I don't have anyexperience with that product. from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Jul 24 16:05:37 1997 Subject: Re: Spiral rod update Tom,Get help quickly!Zimny from bc940@freenet.uchsc.EDU Thu Jul 24 18:47:27 1997 RAA13804; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 17:46:59 -0600 Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane Gary,Could you please post how to get in contact with Tuxedo.ThanksDan Tuxedo CanePO BOX 1167Stockton, CA 95201Phone 209-948-6508Fax 209-948-6757 Let me know if you can get any cane from them. I was promised ashipmentlast November, I'm still waiting. Did not get any of several calls returned. Good Luck, Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado -- from ghilbers@earthlink.net Thu Jul 24 18:55:34 1997 Subject: Re: Torch 3500 degrees is actually way way too hot. I am confussed. It sounds like the weed burner you mentioned would burnat about the temp as the standard butane torch I have. I know that theflame is to tight for this purpose, but that could be resolved byputting on a defuser type device. The one I saw at the hardware storedoes burn butane, but it uses hi-temp butane. (I think it might beoxygenated.) But I thought a higher temp was needed. Gary from ghilbers@earthlink.net Thu Jul 24 19:05:27 1997 Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane SacMan6@aol.com wrote: Gary,Could you please post how to get in contact with Tuxedo.ThanksDanOnce more, the day time #'s I have are (209)948-6500 and 6508. Theseare to Carando Machine Works. You want to talk to Eddie Perez. Thenight # I have is (209)464-6133. This is an answering machine. The fax# is (209)948-6757. The mailing address is:Tuxedo Custom RodP.O. Box 1167Stockton, CA 95201 Gary from SacMan6@aol.com Thu Jul 24 19:16:49 1997 Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane Thanks for the info. I'll let you know. from mrj@seanet.com Thu Jul 24 19:26:40 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25838 for Subject: Re: Torch Gary Hilbers wrote: 3500 degrees is actually way way too hot. I am confussed. It sounds like the weed burner you mentioned would burnat about the temp as the standard butane torch I have. I know that theflame is to tight for this purpose, but that could be resolved byputting on a defuser type device. The one I saw at the hardware storedoes burn butane, but it uses hi-temp butane. (I think it might beoxygenated.) But I thought a higher temp was needed. GaryIf you can get an acceptable flame just by putting on a diffuser on apropane torch, good luck. I doubt it though. What you want is a largeflame. Temp is not that important as any thing that flames is hotenough. Remember, Aluminum melts at about 1000 degrees. I would guessthat the temperature that you want to get the bamboo is probably aboutthe same as if you were going to oven treat your bamboo, around 350 orso. My flame is 5 inches long and maybe 2.5 to 3 inches in diameter.With this I can flame and spread out the heat so I don't get unevenspots. Generally I am going for that perfect marshmallow tone or a bitlighter. -- Martin Jensen from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jul 24 21:39:31 1997 Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane In a message dated 97-07-24 19:52:27 EDT, you write: Let me know if you can get any cane from them. I was promised ashipmentlast November, I'm still waiting. Did not get any of several callsreturned. Exactly what happened to me. Demarest on the other hand sent me thecane before I even paid for it, trusting me to send the check while theshipment was enroute. I'll wait until the next shipment comes in for them. That kind of service deserves loyalty. Darryl Hayashida from jsmm@interaccess.com Thu Jul 24 22:43:27 1997 WAA13699 for ; Thu, 24 Jul 1997 22:40:24 Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane Exactly what happened to me. Demarest on the other hand sent me thecane before I even paid for it, trusting me to send the check while theshipment was enroute. I'll wait until the next shipment comes in forthem. That kind of service deserves loyalty. Darryl Hayashida Exactly what they did for me. Ms. Demarest had my first order of cane out, trusting that I would send the check when the cane arrived. I plan onwaiting for their next shipment. Matt Makowski from Leessinker@aol.com Thu Jul 24 23:02:06 1997 Subject: Re: #@&* Fly Hi Wayne , Have had the "fly in the ointment" happen to me more than once , and sworethat next time I was going to leave that darn thing there and just put asecond over the wrap. After all it is a "fly" rod. reviewingthem in my sleep. Started collecting the needed tools , still working onmaking the final forms , screwed up one piece of 12' 3/4 bar stock so far. Thx Dewayne Davison from holmesr@mwr.kic.or.jp Fri Jul 25 04:27:24 1997 Subject: Re: The Makers Rod 98 Raffle wayne..i sent an email to your address but have'nt rec'd a response, so just to ensure you've rec,d my request an doing it thru rodmakers. pleasereserve (2) tickets for me. wes parker, okinawa, japan...holmesr@mwr.kic.or.jp...thanks wes from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Jul 25 07:52:18 1997 Subject: Re: Re:ferruless rods and cane Mike, I have a rod under way that will use the system that De Lespinaydescribes in the article. I'm building the 8 ft 6-7 weight taper also in thearticle to test out the taper theory also. The difference you are feeling isno suprise. Bill Fink has done a lot of experimenting with one piece rods,and the improvement in casting ability is impressive. - Tom from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri Jul 25 10:16:45 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id PAA02429 for; Fri, 25 Jul 1997 15:16:40 GMT Subject: Re: Torch Gary Hilbers wrote: 3500 degrees is actually way way too hot. I am confussed. It sounds like the weed burner you mentioned would burnat about the temp as the standard butane torch I have. I know that theflame is to tight for this purpose, but that could be resolved byputting on a defuser type device. The one I saw at the hardware storedoes burn butane, but it uses hi-temp butane. (I think it might beoxygenated.) But I thought a higher temp was needed. Gary; IMHO the temp range needed to flame (harden) cane is 600 - 1200degrees f. I use a mapp gas bottle and equip it with a regular fandiffuser that I have opened the gap and filled with coarse copper wool.This gives me a diffused flame of aprox.1000 deg.f and the flame isaround 1/2" wide. I hold the piece 3-4" away from the diffuser and moveit back and forth till the desired effect is achived. hope this isspecific enough to help you out. BryantC. from SacMan6@aol.com Fri Jul 25 11:42:19 1997 Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane Good point on the Service and Loyalty. Hard to come by these days. I wentahead and ordered from the Demarest. Thanks for the info. Dan Sachs from SacMan6@aol.com Fri Jul 25 11:49:03 1997 Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane Once more thanks. Did'nt get a first response.Dan from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Jul 25 12:35:05 1997 Subject: Re: Re:ferruless rods and cane Mike - I neglected to mention a neat little gadget that may be of interest.The spliced connection has thin edges when the rod is not assembled, andmaybe succeptable to damage. You can make a protective device by taking adowelabout an inch longer than the splice, mounting it in your splice block andcutting the taper. Drill a hole in the untouched end and attach a length ofsturdy string. When the rod is disassembled, this is lashed onto the spliceand protects it from damage. Obviously, you will need two of these. --Tom from steviemo@iquest.net Fri Jul 25 16:43:11 1997 0000 Subject: The Makers Rod 98 Raffle Hi All, As a newomer to this list, I would like to know about the raffle mentioned- what is being raffled, how much are tickets, am I eligible? You can contact me off list if desired. Regards, Steve StillabowerIndianapolis, Insteviemo@iquest.net from russett@bcn.net Fri Jul 25 17:06:27 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA04157 for Subject: TAPER WANTED recently I made and sold a 7'9" 4 wt with the taper taken from wayne'sbook. The taper was a really nice slow action rod. The customer was sohappy his hands were shaking.. Now im sitting down and want to make one for me. I really liked thatrod but my casting style is just a little faster. does anyone have ataper for a 7'9" 4 wt with a faster dry fly action. Ill be using this on the Dearfield River in Mass which is a pretty large river with manyrainbows and browns up to 5 lbs. Thanks for your help Larry Russett from ghilbers@earthlink.net Fri Jul 25 17:48:35 1997 Subject: Re: Torch bryant j coochran wrote: Gary Hilbers wrote: 3500 degrees is actually way way too hot. I am confussed. It sounds like the weed burner you mentioned wouldburnat about the temp as the standard butane torch I have. I know that theflame is to tight for this purpose, but that could be resolved byputting on a defuser type device. The one I saw at the hardware storedoes burn butane, but it uses hi-temp butane. (I think it might beoxygenated.) But I thought a higher temp was needed. Gary; IMHO the temp range needed to flame (harden) cane is 600 - 1200degrees f. I use a mapp gas bottle and equip it with a regular fandiffuser that I have opened the gap and filled with coarse copper wool.This gives me a diffused flame of aprox.1000 deg.f and the flame isaround 1/2" wide. I hold the piece 3-4" away from the diffuser and moveit back and forth till the desired effect is achived. hope this isspecific enough to help you out. BryantC.Thank you. This sounds about like what I had in mind, although I hadnot thought of the copper wool. I will do some experamenting over theweekend and see what I can accomplish. Gary from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jul 25 20:32:50 1997 Sat, 26 Jul 1997 09:32:28 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Tuxedo Cane On Thu, 24 Jul 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-07-24 19:52:27 EDT, you write: Let me know if you can get any cane from them. I was promised ashipmentlast November, I'm still waiting. Did not get any of several callsreturned. Exactly what happened to me. Demarest on the other hand sent me thecane before I even paid for it, trusting me to send the check while theshipment was enroute. I'll wait until the next shipment comes in forthem. That kind of service deserves loyalty. Darryl Hayashida My experience with the Demarests was the same. You would not believethe hasles of getting a few pieces of cane into Australia because of quarenteen requirements, tarrifs etc and Eileen Demarest did all that was required and sent the shipment off to me before I was aware it was ready to go only informing me the shipment was dispatched a couple of days later after all the charges were known.Personaly, I think that anybody who ever deals with the Demarests would find difficulty in going elsewhere unless absolutely necessary. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jul 25 21:43:54 1997 Subject: Fast 7'9" 4wt. Use a Stress Curve (Was: TAPER WANTED) In a message dated 97-07-25 18:43:05 EDT, you write: Now im sitting down and want to make one for me. I really liked thatrod but my casting style is just a little faster. does anyone have ataper for a 7'9" 4 wt with a faster dry fly action. It's kind of hard to explain what a fast dry fly action stress curvelooks like, but if you could go to Jerry Fosters Web Page and lookat Wayne C's 7ft. 4wt. 2 piece and study the profile of thatstress curve, any rod with a stress curve with that "look" willbe what you are looking for. In general a higher maximumstress with the "peak" close to the tip, quickly going downto around 140,000 by about the middle of the rod will have afaster dry fly action. If you would like I could design a taper foryou with the same action as the 7ft 4wt Wayne C. taper, butin a 7' 9" length. Darryl Hayashida from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sat Jul 26 00:21:00 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id WAA08791 for ; doing -bs Subject: Silk line I.D. I have an old DT silk line that is in very good condition, but am not surehow to go about identifying its size. Would appreciate any suggestions. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jul 26 07:37:42 1997 Subject: Re: Silk line I.D. Tom - Look on page 203 of Wayne's book and you will find a chart of silklinethicknesses. If you carefully measure what you have, you should be able tofigure it out. -- Tom from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Jul 26 12:15:38 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.3/8.6.9) with SMTP id NAA16852 for Subject: Re: Silk line I.D. TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Tom - Look on page 203 of Wayne's book and you will find a chart of silklinethicknesses. If you carefully measure what you have, you should be abletofigure it out. -- TomToms,I have several different tables of weights for silk lines ... but theyare unreliable. I also have pages of specific gravities of silk lines from various manufacturers ... but this too changes with the line's age.Best bet? Take it out and try it on different rods. Sometimes a linewill be a 4 1/2, in other words , not quite what you're accustomed towith your 4 weight but less than a 5.Again, the extreme difference in diameter from the modern plasticlinesmakes a big difference in what weight you might want to use.I'm sold on silk now. I'm switching all of my rods over to silk, asquickly as I can properly line them. I do have some silk lines thatdon't seem right for any of my rods, so the line tapers are critical,too, not just the weight.Beware of the old British lines. Some of them have 10' or more oflevelH (or G or I) before the taper. This needs to be reduced to approx 2'.Trim carefully.Some of the line tapers are (were) magnificient, but others weredogs,IMHO.Best regards,Reed from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Jul 27 00:13:04 1997 Subject: Re: TAPER WANTED Larry -I'm sure that one could be designed for your needs. Do you want just adry fly action or do you want it to have some parabolic qualities? Wayne from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sun Jul 27 13:01:02 1997 Subject: Thread Does anyone know where I could acquire Gudebrod #6038 silk thread in3/0size? I like the color, but wrapping tippings and intermediates in "A" sizethread is a pain. YLI doesn't make a matching thread in their #100 (3/0)thread line. Thanks, Don B. from russett@bcn.net Sun Jul 27 17:13:02 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA01406 for Subject: Re: TAPER WANTED WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Larry -I'm sure that one could be designed for your needs. Do you want just adry fly action or do you want it to have some parabolic qualities? Wayne Wayne. I have to learn to speak the lingo better. What Im trying to build isfairly fast 7"9" 4 wt that can handle 60 ft casts when needed. your 7'9" in the book is great and i just want to make it a littlefaster if possible. Maybe stiffen up the middle just if thats possible. So I guess I dont want a dry fly action. The proper term would be amedium dry fly action with slight parabolic tendicies. Does that make sence to you?Let me know. Thought I would let you know Im also starting your 7'4wt. The customerwanted a 9ft 4 wt. (never owned bamboo). Then I had him try that taperand he Loved it. Looks like you have a Hit.. And thanks for the help on the taper. Larry. Ps. do you have a lot of cork rings left? from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Jul 28 05:38:51 1997 LAA21518 for ; Mon, 28 Jul 1997 11:45:04+0100 Subject: RE:Gudebrod RO>I'm trying to get a contact name, address, phone, email for Gudebrod - theRO>American varnish and whipping silks people. I have a technicalquestion forRO>them. RO>Can anyone give me any of their company contact points. RO>John Cooper (England) John, from one of their flyers: Gudebrod, Inc.P.O. Box 357Pottstown, PA 19464 USA(610) 327-4050 FAX (610) 327-4588Easylink 62017160 LAter, Don Burns Thank's Don and Jerry I've now tried Gudebrod several times with my query, but they don't botherto respond: good service eh? Perhaps a rodmaker can help. In advance can I beg the forgiveness ofpuristswho consider the use of two-pack on cane to be akin to child molestation.Ihave thought about this hard, and made my peace with my maker. Becausemanyof our old makers put on hundreds of (ridiculous) tiny intermediates, andthese have left 'time shadows' that require re-installation andre-finishing, the two pack allows me to remain sane (nearly). With somanyrods passing through, I simply cannot face, with the required equanimity,three accurately-placed coats of spar on a hundred minusculeintermediates, varnish over. It looks utterly breathtaking. Because I shellac the threadsfirst, the two pack doesn't actually go through the silk onto the caneitself. This was my letter to Gudebrod: any ideas? My speciality is the refurbishment of split bamboo rods, using acombinationof modern and traditional materials to produce a finish that is profoundlysuperior to the maker's original. I am using your High Build thread filler over burnished silk to provide mewith a super-smooth base before final varnishing over with spar varnish.This works to perfection. Occasionally the High Build simply refuses to harden, or at least, seems toproduce a sticky surface, although underneath it appears to be quite hard.It's not a matter of mixing - I'm meticulous about quantities,contaminants,and cleanliness. I've tried additional warming in a furnace room (85F), andI've tried washing off the surface with detergent after several days ofdrying - it simply recovers its stickiness. Past experience shows that itdoes all eventually dry - perhaps after three months. Until then, sparvarnish (if it is applied) over the High Build stays tacky when all the restof the surface is nail hard. The effect is not seen on every application from the one batch of High Build. Any ideas? Someone mentioned that it might be a surface excretion calledamine. Does that mean anything to you? As you can imagine, 30 hours into the restoration, having got to the stagewhen the thread filler is on, it's not just a matter of whipping it all offand starting over. When this happens, is there anything I can do, or apply, to complete thehardening of the surface, or remove the stickiness? As an angling writer I recommend this system to my readers, and I ampresently writing a book on rod restoration that will include informationonGudebrod products. It would be nice to get it all right. John Cooper from dalzell@titan.tcn.net Mon Jul 28 09:04:01 1997 titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA12980 for Subject: RE:Gudebrod I don't know what is causing your sticky mess with the two part finish. Idoubt it is amine blush. This is, in the cases with which I am familliar, agreassy residue on the surface of cured epoxy, not unlike a faint coat ofbutter. It can be easilly removed with warm water. Under the amineblush,epoxy is cured normally. The amount of blush seems to vary a lot relativeto the evironment in which a prodduct is applied, and the brand of epoxy.WEST epoxy for instance has typically been prone to blush. About the onlyproblem with blush, is as reguards re-coating. The blush doesn't formimediately, and one can coat again prior to its forming. If the surface isleft unatended for long, however, one may need to wash and sand it to getbythe blush. It seems to me that goo generally results from improper mixing ofcomponents, or contamination. Epoxy isn't catalyzed, so if not enough partA is mixed with part B there just aren't enough molecule guys floatingarround to complete the bonds. You can wait for ever, and these bondswon'tform. Since you say you are mixing correctly, and assuming Gudebrod isalso, then I think you have a contamination problem. The likely culpritwould be the shellac you are using on the thread as a base. So the question for the day is "when you end up with gooey epoxy, is theresidue in your mixing container also gooey, or does it kick-off hard?". Ifthe stuff left in the pot is hard, then your epoxy is fine, and perhaps theshellac or other contaminant is responsible. If your pot is gooey also,then get some epoxy which works! Thomas from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jul 28 10:32:42 1997 Subject: Re: Gudebrod I've found that if my bottles of Flexcoat have been sitting I have the same problem you described. All I do is turn them upside down until the bubble inside reaches thetop, then right side up until the bubble reaches the top, etc. about a half dozen times. I think that the componentswithin each bottle settles into layers, and when you use the supplied syringe to draw out Part A and Part B youdraw out just the lightest of the settled out components.I haven't had the problem since I started doing this. Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Jul 28 12:18:59 1997 Subject: Re: Gudebrod RO>I've found that if my bottles of Flexcoat have been sittingRO>for a while they have to be stirred a bit before mixing, orRO>I have the same problem you described. All I do is turnRO>them upside down until the bubble inside reaches theRO>top, then right side up until the bubble reaches the top,RO>etc. about a half dozen times. I think that the componentsRO>within each bottle settles into layers, and when you useRO>the supplied syringe to draw out Part A and Part B youRO>draw out just the lightest of the settled out components.RO>I haven't had the problem since I started doing this. RO>Darryl Hayashida I also like to heat the the epoxy bottles up to about 90 - 100 deg. Fbefore using it. If it get cold during storage sometimes crystals canform in the bottles too. I think it's best to toss out old epoxy - say once a year? Don Burns from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Jul 28 14:01:29 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 3567; Mon, 28 Jul 97 14:59:58 EDT MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 5735; Mon, 28 Jul1997 14:59:58 -0400 I'm off to AK with 360 flies and four rods. Hopefully the rods will returnintact, the flies burnt up on silvers, dollies and rainbows, and the brownbears are already well fed. I'll be on my own in the bush for 10 days andthen meet some friends for a week long float trip. I can hardly wait. Hopeyou all have a fine aug. and labor day. --Bob. from ghilbers@earthlink.net Mon Jul 28 18:55:07 1997 Subject: Sold I was in my local fly shop today talking to the owner, Bill Stroud,about cane rods. The discussion turned to how many high end cane rods,total, are sold each year? Any opinions? Gary from impalass@litenet.net Mon Jul 28 22:35:57 1997 Subject: Re: Gudebrod John Cooper wrote: RO>I'm trying to get a contact name, address, phone, email for Gudebrod- theRO>American varnish and whipping silks people. I have a technicalquestion forRO>them. RO>Can anyone give me any of their company contact points. RO>John Cooper (England) John, from one of their flyers: Gudebrod, Inc.P.O. Box 357Pottstown, PA 19464 USA(610) 327-4050 FAX (610) 327-4588Easylink 62017160 LAter, Don Burns Thank's Don and Jerry I've now tried Gudebrod several times with my query, but they don'tbotherto respond: good service eh? Perhaps a rodmaker can help. In advance can I beg the forgiveness ofpuristswho consider the use of two-pack on cane to be akin to childmolestation. Ihave thought about this hard, and made my peace with my maker. Becausemanyof our old makers put on hundreds of (ridiculous) tiny intermediates, andthese have left 'time shadows' that require re-installation andre-finishing, the two pack allows me to remain sane (nearly). With somanyrods passing through, I simply cannot face, with the required equanimity,three accurately-placed coats of spar on a hundred minusculeintermediates, varnish over. It looks utterly breathtaking. Because I shellac the threadsfirst, the two pack doesn't actually go through the silk onto the caneitself. This was my letter to Gudebrod: any ideas? My speciality is the refurbishment of split bamboo rods, using acombinationof modern and traditional materials to produce a finish that isprofoundlysuperior to the maker's original. I am using your High Build thread filler over burnished silk to provide mewith a super-smooth base before final varnishing over with spar varnish.This works to perfection. Occasionally the High Build simply refuses to harden, or at least, seemstoproduce a sticky surface, although underneath it appears to be quite hard.It's not a matter of mixing - I'm meticulous about quantities,contaminants,and cleanliness. I've tried additional warming in a furnace room (85F),andI've tried washing off the surface with detergent after several days ofdrying - it simply recovers its stickiness. Past experience shows that itdoes all eventually dry - perhaps after three months. Until then, sparvarnish (if it is applied) over the High Build stays tacky when all therestof the surface is nail hard. The effect is not seen on every application from the one batch of High Build. Any ideas? Someone mentioned that it might be a surface excretioncalledamine. Does that mean anything to you? As you can imagine, 30 hours into the restoration, having got to thestagewhen the thread filler is on, it's not just a matter of whipping it all offand starting over. When this happens, is there anything I can do, or apply, to complete thehardening of the surface, or remove the stickiness? As an angling writer I recommend this system to my readers, and I ampresently writing a book on rod restoration that will include informationonGudebrod products. It would be nice to get it all right. John CooperJohn,It sounds as if you might be picking up some of the unmixed portionof the epoxy from the corners of your mixing container. Try pouring out your mixture onto a flat surface such as a large glazed ceramictile,which can be had at a tile store for free as a sample. Thiseliminates getting unmixed epoxy from the corners and also slows downthe set up time giving you a longer working time. As to the stickyfinish, try putting another well mixed coat on. This will trigger thefirst coat and it should all dry to a nice hard finish. If you don'twant a thick second coat use the low build for the second coat. I havehad this trouble and this worked for me.Rich Uffert from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Jul 29 05:01:10 1997 ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 22:01:09 +1200 Subject: Re: Gudebrod At 11:32 AM 28/07/97 -0400, you wrote: I've found that if my bottles of Flexcoat have been sitting I have the same problem you described. All I do is turn them upside down until the bubble inside reaches thetop, then right side up until the bubble reaches the top, etc. about a half dozen times. I think that the componentswithin each bottle settles into layers, and when you use the supplied syringe to draw out Part A and Part B youdraw out just the lightest of the settled out components.I haven't had the problem since I started doing this. Darryl Hayashida Darryl and John Darryl's reply reminded me that in my other life as a manufacturer of gluelaminated beams we always "turn" bulk epoxy product every three days .Thismeans that the drums are turned upside down every three days and thentheright way up again three days later and this continues until the drums areopened for use . This is done on the makers recommendation to prevent anylayering of product which can happen and could be the cause of yourproblem . regards IankIan Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Jul 29 08:43:10 1997 Subject: RE:Sold RO>I was in my local fly shop today talking to the owner, Bill Stroud,RO>about cane rods. The discussion turned to how many high end canerods,RO>total, are sold each year? Any opinions? RO> Gary Depends upon your meaning of "high-end" - any cane rod or custom built? But my guess is that it would be in the 100's to maybe a couple of1000's max (international builders included). Quite a change from the 1930 - 50's, when the total # of cane rodsproduced per year would've been in the 100's of thousands. "High-end"rods back then (including top rods from the production rod houses) wouldhave been in the 10,000 or so per year. IMHO Don Burns from penr0295@uidaho.edu Tue Jul 29 10:56:51 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id IAA22104 for ; doing -bs Subject: RE:Sold I was in my local fly shop today talking to the owner, Bill Stroud,about cane rods. The discussion turned to how many high end cane rods,total, are sold each year? Any opinions? I read in a recent article that R.L. Winston makes about 100 cane rods ayear. A recent article in one of the mags had Mike Clark doing 40 ayear. I don't know how these numbers would compare to other largercompanies like T&T and Powell. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jul 29 11:08:01 1997 RAA26717 for ; Tue, 29 Jul 1997 17:14:31+0100 Subject: Re: Gudebrod I've found that if my bottles of Flexcoat have been sitting I have the same problem you described. All I do is turn them upside down until the bubble inside reaches thetop, then right side up until the bubble reaches the top, etc. about a half dozen times. I think that the componentswithin each bottle settles into layers, and when you use the supplied syringe to draw out Part A and Part B youdraw out just the lightest of the settled out components.I haven't had the problem since I started doing this. Darryl Hayashida Darryl and others Many thanks you chaps. I knew you'd come up trumps. I'm certain that youhave hit right onto my problem's cause. I shall both heat and mix the goo ineach bottle before I try again. It can't be the shellac, because some complete sections dry to perfectionvery quickly. When this happens, it happens on a complete section ofthreads. I would guess you've saved me a lot of grief and frustration. OH BLISS. It would help if Gudebrod issued instructions to cover this eventuality. Itwould also help if they answered their customers' queries. Aye John Cooper (England) from ghilbers@earthlink.net Tue Jul 29 18:01:12 1997 Subject: Re: Sold flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>I was in my local fly shop today talking to the owner, Bill Stroud,RO>about cane rods. The discussion turned to how many high end canerods,RO>total, are sold each year? Any opinions? RO> Gary Depends upon your meaning of "high-end" - any cane rod or custom built? We were talk about $1500 or better (an arbitrary figure) and weretalking mostly U.S. Bill came up with a guess of 500 at the most andthat sounded about right to me. But we just wondered if anyone had doneany serious research on the subject. Gary from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue Jul 29 18:21:25 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Protective gloves This may be of help to those (like me!) who occasionally cut themselves on sharp edged bamboo. Up to now I have used cheap cotton gloves from Home Depot. Theseeventually get cut and have to be replaced. I have been trying a superior - and still cheap - Home Depot variant which covers the working surfaces withsmall rubber dimples. These offer superior grip, enhanced cut resistance, andare also great for handling hot cane exiting your tempering oven. Thomas from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Jul 29 20:36:50 1997 Subject: Re: SW Montana last week I was in Big Sky last week. The Gallatin is a little of colour due to somerain but the flows are normal. There were Caddis coming off and somesmallmayflies. The river is pretty fast moving so I wouldn't worry about littleflies. We had good succes in the evenings however we fished deep. Also adropper seemed to work best in thw two-three feet riffle water aroundBigSky. Good Luck JB At 11:27 24/07/97 -0400, you wrote:Greg Kuntz wrote: To the list-- I'm going to be in the SW Montana area next week (Big Sky)--obviously,the Gallatin and Madison will be on my list. Does anyone have anysuggestions or know how any water in that area's fishing? I'll be thereon business and be able to fish late afternoons and evenings all week,and driving a few hours isn't a problem for good water----E-mail me at harry37@epix.net or post any info to the listThanks in advance Greg KuntzGreg:Last week the Big Hole and the Beaverhead were fishing well. Latemorning hatch of small stones on the Beaverhead, afternoon hatch of PMD and nymphs (beadhead GRHE and Pheasant tails) all day except aroundnoon changed depending on which run you were on. The Missouri fished verywell on Wooly buggers with bullet heads, size 6! (the smaller the drythe better on the Beaverhead. Ended up with #20.) On the lakes alittle north of where you are going it was elk hair caddis after aboutfour in the afternoon and nymphs all day. The wind was a big bigproblem on the lakes in the north. Of course by next week it could allbe very different. Whirling disease is supposed to be in all threerivers but did not affect the fishing yet. Fish caught were rainbows,browns and one grayling. Average size about 17 inches on the rivers,with the largest about 20. Dick Schiller (KY) James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jul 30 11:42:51 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 0-39971U10000L10000S0)with SMTP id AAA258 for ;Wed, 30 Jul 1997 11:38:30 -0500 Subject: Re: Protective gloves Thomas Pindelski wrote: I have been trying a superior - and stillcheap - Home Depot variant which covers the working surfaces withsmall rubber dimples. These offer superior grip, enhanced cut resistance,and are also great for handling hot cane exiting your tempering oven. Has anyone tried using golf gloves? They are thin fine leather, fairlydurable, and available rather inexpensively if you don't buy from proshops. I know the word "golf" is an ugly term to many fly fishermen,but surely some redeeming qualities can be found for the game! In aformer life I was a 4 handicapper, but haven't played since I made myfirst and only hole in one. What would be the point? Harry Boyd, fbcwin@fsbnet.com from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wed Jul 30 17:24:35 1997 Subject: Everyone fishing - or what? Sure have been quiet on the list lately. Don Burns from dalzell@titan.tcn.net Thu Jul 31 07:49:34 1997 titan.tcn.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA20150 for Subject: remove from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Thu Jul 31 08:12:30 1997 Subject: forms Can anyone think of meaningful advantages or disadvantages to using hotrolledsteel over cold rolled steel for forms? Is there likely to be lesselasticityin the hot rolled steel, so that they may not hold their shape in the longrun?(I'm thinking about not being able to adjust them between the stationsbecausethey will have bowed out) In short, are there any reasons not to use hotrolled steel? -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Jul 31 12:08:07 1997 Subject: Re: forms Mark M Freed wrote: Can anyone think of meaningful advantages or disadvantages to using hotrolledsteel over cold rolled steel for forms? Is there likely to be lesselasticityin the hot rolled steel, so that they may not hold their shape in the longrun?(I'm thinking about not being able to adjust them between the stationsbecausethey will have bowed out) In short, are there any reasons not to use hotrolled steel? -- Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu Hot rolled steel should work better than CRS. In filing off the harderouter skin on CRS, one often relieves stress and the part does adimensional "dance". HRS should not be prone to this problem. And,therefore offer a more accurate alternative.Most shops will not use CRS for any precision fixture.John Zimny from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jul 31 15:00:14 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 1997 12:59:45 -0700 Subject: glue 4.0.995.52 Has anybody used epon,either 828 resin/ 3140 curing agent or 829 resin/v- 40 curing agent? Can you clean off the wet glue before it sets and ifso how, and how well does it respond to heat straightening after theglue has set? How easy is it to remove the binding string after the gluehas set,does it require lots of sanding and scraping to get it off ordoes it remove easily and what kind of mess does it leave behind? Patrick from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jul 31 18:23:42 1997 TAA16778 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 19:42:09-0400 Subject: Re: glue PatrickI use the 828/3140To clean the uncured resins - just use white vinegar!The binding cord easily removes and requires nofiling or sanding. It leaves no hard to remove mess.It heat straightens nicely - see spec sheet on the rodmakers homepage. On Thu, 31 Jul 1997 12:59:35 -0700, Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Has anybody used epon,either 828 resin/ 3140 curing agent or 829 resin/v- 40 curing agent? Can you clean off the wet glue before it sets and ifso how, and how well does it respond to heat straightening after theglue has set? How easy is it to remove the binding string after the gluehas set,does it require lots of sanding and scraping to get it off ordoes it remove easily and what kind of mess does it leave behind? Patrick Regards Chris from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Jul 31 18:34:58 1997 Subject: Re: glue Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Has anybody used epon,either 828 resin/ 3140 curing agent or 829 resin/v- 40 curing agent? Can you clean off the wet glue before it sets and ifyes acetone of vinegar.so how, and how well does it respond to heat straightening after theglue has set?very well How easy is it to remove the binding string after the glueeasy as can behas set,does it require lots of sanding and scraping to get it off ordoes it remove easily and what kind of mess does it leave behind?it takes a healthy sanding similar to Phenolic glues. But it is doable. PatrickJohn Zimny from chuckt@jetlink.net Thu Jul 31 23:01:02 1997 VAA25633 for ; Thu, 31 Jul 1997 21:00:58 Subject: Ron Barch Does anyone have the e-mail address of Ron Barch Thanks !!! from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Thu Jul 31 23:39:08 1997 Subject: cork reel seat i have been searching for a while and have not been able to find a cork,slide ring, downlocking reel seat....accually i did find one in a catalog from "Kettle Creek Tackle Shop" here in PA, but the catalog's 3 yrs. old,and i have not been able to get ahold of them to send me a newercatalog....i also know that Winston sells one, but $50 for a cork reel seatis a bit much....i guess if i can't find one i'll just buy the hardware fromREC and turn my own insert, but i'd prefer to buy one alreadymade.....anyway, if you know of a place where i can get one PLEASE forwardit to me...THANKS!!! ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////______MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net__/// \\\\_\\\\___________http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/____________\\\____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o------- ---------------------------------------'''''''/||\/||||\