from jonrc@atlantic.net Fri Aug 1 06:45:44 1997 berlin.atlantic.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with ESMTP id HAA28856 for; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:54:10 -0400 rio.atlantic.net (8.8.6/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA30487 for; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 07:45:36 -0400 Subject: Re: cork reel seat Matt Leiderman wrote: i have been searching for a while and have not been able to find a cork,slide ring, downlocking reel seat....accually i did find one in a catalog from "Kettle Creek Tackle Shop" here in PA, but the catalog's 3 yrs. old,and i have not been able to get ahold of them to send me a newercatalog....i also know that Winston sells one, but $50 for a cork reel seatis a bit much....i guess if i can't find one i'll just buy the hardware fromREC and turn my own insert, but i'd prefer to buy one alreadymade.....anyway, if you know of a place where i can get one PLEASEforwardit to me...THANKS!!! MattStruble sells a nickel silver slide band set (Butt cap & slid ring), Iwould order that and turn your own cork insert. -- Casting for the fish that has been seen in one's mind time and timeagain. Casting for that magic moment, when everything comes together,the fly is taken and the familiar pulsating tension is felt running thelength of the cane rod allowing the angler just a glimpse of the mysterybelow the surface of the water. Jonathan ClarkeTwin Pines Rod Co.2800 4th St. No #112St. Petersburg, FL 33704 http://rio.atlantic.net/~jonrc from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Aug 1 08:58:40 1997 Subject: Re: cork reel seat RO>Matt Leiderman wrote:RO>>RO>> i have been searching for a while and have not been able to find acork,RO>> slide ring, downlocking reel seat....accually i did find one in a catalogRO>> from "Kettle Creek Tackle Shop" here in PA, but the catalog's 3 yrs.old,RO>> and i have not been able to get ahold of them to send me a newerRO>> catalog....i also know that Winston sells one, but $50 for a cork reelseaRO>> is a bit much....i guess if i can't find one i'll just buy the hardware frRO>> REC and turn my own insert, but i'd prefer to buy one alreadyRO>> made.....anyway, if you know of a place where i can get one PLEASEforwardRO>> it to me...THANKS!!! RO>MattRO>Struble sells a nickel silver slide band set (Butt cap & slid ring), IRO>would order that and turn your own cork insert. RO>Jonathan Clarke Matt, Are you asking for an all-cork D/L twin sliding bands reelseat/spacer ora cork grip with D/L sliding band reelseat (butt cap & band) with a woodspacer (or cork)? I think Dale Clemens has the later of the two - D/L reelseat - slidingband (not screw) in their own line of seats plus in the both the Strubleand Bellinger brands. Angler's Workshop also carries these 2 brands. Ithought Clemens used to sell a cork spacer, but I didn't see it in thecatalog (didn't look too hard). Clemens (610) 395-5119Angler's (360) 225-9445 LAter, Don Burns from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Aug 1 10:32:29 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 08:32:02 -0700 Subject: RE: glue 4.0.995.52 Due the greater consistency for epon compared to nyatec does that inferthat it leaves a visible glue line:? ----------From: John Zimny[SMTP:JCZIMNY@dol.net]Sent: Thursday, July 31, 1997 4:20 PM Subject: Re: glue Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Has anybody used epon,either 828 resin/ 3140 curing agent or 829resin/v- 40 curing agent? Can you clean off the wet glue before it sets and ifyes acetone of vinegar.so how, and how well does it respond to heat straightening after theglue has set?very well How easy is it to remove the binding string after the glueeasy as can behas set,does it require lots of sanding and scraping to get it off ordoes it remove easily and what kind of mess does it leave behind?it takes a healthy sanding similar to Phenolic glues. But it is doable. PatrickJohn Zimny from khube@benmeadows.com Fri Aug 1 11:12:27 1997 Subject: Re: cork reel seat At 11:39 PM 7/31/97 -0500, you wrote:i have been searching for a while and have not been able to find a cork,slide ring, downlocking reel seat....accually i did find one in a catalog from "Kettle Creek Tackle Shop" here in PA, but the catalog's 3 yrs. old,and i have not been able to get ahold of them to send me a newercatalog....i also know that Winston sells one, but $50 for a cork reel seatis a bit much....i guess if i can't find one i'll just buy the hardware fromREC and turn my own insert, but i'd prefer to buy one alreadymade.....anyway, if you know of a place where i can get one PLEASEforwardit to me...THANKS!!!====================================================================Matt, The Struble ring and cap that Johnathan is talking about is a good choice.I've got two new rods fitted with them using my own cork filler. Costabout$12.00 to $13.00 and can be found at: Custom Tackle SupplyShelbyville, Tn615-684-6164 Karl Hube from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Aug 1 12:13:00 1997 Subject: Re: glue PatrickI haven't seen any glue lines. But you're correct, thicker glues tend tobe less forgiving that way. Call Shell and they will advise you onadjusting the viscosity to your liking. It is entirely possible tomaintain all needed characteristics yet have any degree of viscositythat you desire.You will have to change resins or curing agents. There are thousands ofpossible combinations. I would get one that maintains its flexibilityinto the colder ranges.John Zimny from santiago@ricochet.net Fri Aug 1 13:31:15 1997 LAA09815 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 1997 11:31:08 - Subject: FYI on bamboo On the morning of August 1, 1997, I received a telephone call from AndyRoyer, Bamboo Hardwoods. He was calling form Waitsap, China. He askedthat the following information be placed on the Internet for theAmerican rod builders. Andy Royer of Bamboo Hardwoods, Seattle, has spent the last six weeks inthe Waitsap on the Sui River, in China selecting a container of Tonkinbamboo for the American rod building market. Andy personally graded andselected each of the 4600 pieces of cane he purchased. D. L. Whitehead Andy describes the an as follows: Grade 1Best can availableNo slash marks with good color12ft x 2 in Grade 2Less than 10% slash marks, but water marked12ft x 2in Grade 1-A600 sticks, same as Grade 17ft long Butt sections used to fill container It has been a very rainy , wet season in the area and they have haddifficulty having enough sun to color the cane. The majority of thiscane is golden in color, but some have a slight greenish coloration. This container of bamboo will be in Seattle by the middle of September. Andy will be back in Seattle by August, 15th and will be acceptingorders for the sale of the bamboo at (206) 223-0658. Andy is the first American to travel to the bamboo fields and work inthe harvest hand selecting the cane for the American rod buildingmarket. email me directly for more details: santiago@ricochet.netor call Andy from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Aug 1 18:09:21 1997 Subject: Challenges Hi DarrylRegarding getting into five side geometry, why cant you and othersacceptthe aluminum planing form as the easy way to get into something new?TPF No29 covers a way to go. You can do it in one afternoon. My aluminum formsarestill servicable after 25 rods. This always puzzles me. Is there some sortof prestige value in steel forms, binding machines, dip tanks, and otherunnecessary baggage for the small scale maker or hobbyist?Please excuse me for getting on the soapbox again. Guess I'm just in thewrong generation. Bill from penr0295@uidaho.edu Fri Aug 1 19:02:00 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id RAA12113 for ; doing -bs Subject: Urac mix ratio Just to make sure, is the mix ratio for Urac 185 still 1 to 4 for canerod gluing, even though the mixing instructions on the can say 1 to 2? Thomas PenroseBend, OR from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Aug 2 07:58:58 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO205e ID# 0-39971U10000L10000S0)with SMTP id AAA80 for ;Sat, 2 Aug 1997 07:54:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Challenges Bill Fink wrote: Regarding getting into five side geometry, why cant you and othersaccept the aluminum planing form as the easy way to get into somethingnew? TPF No 29 covers a way to go. You can do it in one afternoon. Myaluminum forms are still servicable after 25 rods. This always puzzlesme. Is there some sort of prestige value in steel forms, bindingmachines, dip tanks, and other unnecessary baggage for the small scalemaker or hobbyist?Please excuse me for getting on the soapbox again. Guess I'm just inthe wrong generation. Bill, I was just about to embark on the arduous journey of creatingmyown steel forms, but aluminum sounds lighter and easier to work with tome. As one with no experience in metal work, could you expound, on thelist or privately, on the virtues of aluminum forms?In your post you mentioned TPF No 29. Maybe I'm missing something,butcould you explain further?Thanks for any input as I enter the critical stage of commitment totheprocess of building my first real rod. Harry Boydfbcwin@fsbnet.com from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Aug 2 10:26:09 1997 Subject: Re: Challenges In a message dated 97-08-02 04:56:59 EDT, you write: This always puzzles me. Is there some sortof prestige value in steel forms, binding machines, dip tanks, and otherunnecessary baggage for the small scale maker or hobbyist? I don't think it's a matter of prestige, I think it's a matter of the righttools because I didn't know what I was doing, and I thought that at least if thethe basic basis of the rod was correct and something was off I didn'tneed to worry about the forms being wrong. Binding machines areconvenient. The first few rods I made I bound by hand. This gave mecramps in my thumbs like you wouldn't believe. Dip tanks are thesame way. I used a brush for the first couple of rods I made, anda dip tank just flat out produces a better finish with less work andless time. I have made my own binding machine and dip tank though.And if you recall my dip tank is only a pvc pipe and a valve (the drainthe varnish method). Yes, you can produce a good rod without all the excess baggage,but the same person can produce a better rod with it. Darryl Hayashida from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Sat Aug 2 12:11:37 1997 Subject: challenges I think Darrell Hayashida's remarks are straight to the point. It is not aquestion of prestige but one of which tools are the easiest to use andproducethe best results. If aluminum forms can do what is required of them, thenthere is no reason not to use them. (I'll leave it to others moreexperiencedthan I to speculate whether they can or can't). The dip tube makes an illustrative example: I brushed my first rods; now Ihavea dip tank of my own design. While others (including those who are notPinkyGillum) may be able to make satisfactory finishes with a brush, I cannot.There's no prestige here either. Rather the reverse: I have more respect forthose who can get good finishes with a brush, but I see no reason in beingeither nostalgic or sentimental about it. Functionality is one of the things distinguishing arts from crafts. It is attention to detail as is found in cane rods. And I see no reason that samecommittment to function shouldn't carry over into the productionmethods--oneway or the other: aluminum or steel (or wood for that matter). -- Mark M. Freed, Ph.DDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sat Aug 2 15:50:02 1997 Subject: Phil Snyder I just heard from a friend that Phil Snyder past away on June 7th. Iplan on contacting Phil's wife on monday and make sure this is correct. I only got to know of him throught his cane rod mail list and a coupleof meetings at local tackle swap meets plus a trip or two to his housein Fullerton, CA. So I sure someone else among you can better give theproper respects due to him. Don Burns from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Aug 3 03:46:25 1997 Subject: Out Of The Closet the Makers Rod is legal( and we even mentioned TroutBum on theapplication) -the printer will have tickets finished wednesday - in time for the FFFinternational conclave here in Grand Rapids next week. If you want furtherinformation check out: http://members.aol.com/planecane1/index.htm Being on aol is like being part of the CB craze of several years ago -what's your handle 'good buddy' - any way they allow you 5 screen names(handles) so I used one to set up a home page for the raffle.Jerry and others - if you like you are welcome to lift what you like -if you want the print in a different size or dpi let me know and I can sendas needed. Gee - now I need to get bamboo shipped Wayne from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Aug 3 08:56:56 1997 KAA14068 for ; Sun, 3 Aug 1997 10:15:52 -0400 Subject: Re: Out Of The Closet Wayne Glad progress is being made - the Makers Rod 98 pagelooks great - I assume you don't mind if I link to it. Jerry - you mayalso want to put a link to it. Also, sent info to TU and ask if they also would link to it - let's get it others to do the same Regards Chris from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Aug 3 10:04:44 1997 Subject: Re: Challenges Having worked with both steel forms, and the wood/aluminum hybrids, Ifeel Ishould come to the aid of my beleaguered friend Bill. First, let me say thatmy preference is for steel forms, BUT, I have sufficient shop equipmentandmetalworking experience that working with them is not a problem. Forsomeoneworking with simple tools, the aluminum method is not a bad way to go,particularly if you want to experiment with 5 or 4 strip construction.Planing on aluminum is tricky. The blade wants to dig into the soft metal.You can either set the forms slightly tight and do a lot of measuring, orgroove the plane sole, so that the blade can't touch the forms. The groovedsole method will, no doubt, make holding tolerances easier. However,beforeadjustable forms became readily available, many amateurs made good rodsusingthe first method on fixed planing blocks. Anyone starting out today and wanting to build six strip rods shouldconsidergetting a professionally made set of forms. They cost about half what theydidwhen I started, and are a bargain. If you decide to make a few 4 or 5 strip rods, you will probably have tomakethe forms yourself. If you have access to the materials and tools to workinsteel, fine. If not, you can make a set like Bill's with stuff you can get atthe hardware store and hand tools. Either way, you can make good rods. --Tom from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sun Aug 3 10:55:51 1997 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA09662 for Subject: Aluminum forms and for that matter wood as well one additional observation.Until you've examined one of Bill Fink's rods, you should not becritical of his forms or comments.After you examine one of Bill's rods you'll have no reason to becritical! George Barnes from sjostran@algonet.se Sun Aug 3 11:56:29 1997 18:55:05 +0200 Subject: Martha Marie rod I am seeking info regarding the Martha Marie rod built by Paul Young. Ihave recently bought a splitcane blank and this blank is a copy of a rodcalled Martha Marie by Paul Young according to the builder. So I aminterested on all kinds of info on this rod; length, lineclass, building yearand I would be very greatful if anyone have the taper measurements .Thanks in advance from Mats Sjostrand, Helsingborg Swedensjostran@algonet.sehttp://www.algonet.se/~sjostran/English/ from russett@bcn.net Sun Aug 3 20:54:37 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA29279 for Subject: Re: FYI on bamboo Leo Santiago wrote: On the morning of August 1, 1997, I received a telephone call from AndyRoyer, Bamboo Hardwoods. He was calling form Waitsap, China. He askedthat the following information be placed on the Internet for theAmerican rod builders. Andy Royer of Bamboo Hardwoods, Seattle, has spent the last six weeksinthe Waitsap on the Sui River, in China selecting a container of Tonkinbamboo for the American rod building market. Andy personally gradedandselected each of the 4600 pieces of cane he purchased.D. L. Whitehead Andy describes the an as follows: Grade 1Best can availableNo slash marks with good color12ft x 2 in Grade 2Less than 10% slash marks, but water marked12ft x 2in Grade 1-A600 sticks, same as Grade 17ft long Butt sections used to fill container It has been a very rainy , wet season in the area and they have haddifficulty having enough sun to color the cane. The majority of thiscane is golden in color, but some have a slight greenish coloration. This container of bamboo will be in Seattle by the middle of September. Andy will be back in Seattle by August, 15th and will be acceptingorders for the sale of the bamboo at (206) 223-0658. Andy is the first American to travel to the bamboo fields and work inthe harvest hand selecting the cane for the American rod buildingmarket. email me directly for more details: santiago@ricochet.netor call Andy Please let me know how much this cane is.. Depending on price would liketo get some sent to me in Massachusett. Please e mail response Larry Russett Russett Rods.413 743 503439 East RdAdams, MA 01220 from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Aug 3 22:47:10 1997 Subject: Re: Aluminum forms and for that matter wood as well In a message dated 97-08-03 11:59:31 EDT, you write: one additional observation.Until you've examined one of Bill Fink's rods, you should not becritical of his forms or comments.After you examine one of Bill's rods you'll have no reason to becritical! Just in case you all feel I was being critical of Bill Fink - his methodsand/or his rods, I was not in any way. I think I need to explain whathappened. Bill contacted me privately about new challenges aftermy post about wanting to try a spiral rod or impregnating the bamboo.He suggested trying a five side rod. I replied it is something I would like to do, but I couldn't afford a new set of forms. What the list sawwas Bill's reply to me about that. Since Bill posted his reply on thelist I posted my reply to him on the list. Basically what the list sawwas the middle of our conversation. It was in no way contentiousand it was just a normal conversation. It just looked bad on thesurface because most of the others saw only part of it. Darryl Hayashida from khube@benmeadows.com Mon Aug 4 07:14:54 1997 Subject: Aluminum After reading one of Bill Fink's articles about twenty years ago, I built analuminum form that I still use today. It is a simple non-adjustable devicethat has served well and will continue to be useful. I agree that there is aplace for the simple, low cost approach for the occasional builder who canstill produce first-class results. Besides, you develop new skills and itcan be plain old fun!! Karl Hube from ttalsma@macatawa.org Mon Aug 4 07:22:04 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA03031 for ; Subject: Re: FYI on bamboo Larry & Jane Russett wrote: Leo Santiago wrote: snip Please let me know how much this cane is.. Depending on price would liketo get some sent to me in Massachusett. Please e mail response Larry Russett Russett Rods.413 743 503439 East RdAdams, MA 01220--I would also like to know about pricing on this bamboo. Please let usknow if you have this information. Thanks a lot.-- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Todd Talsma + Sligh Furniture Company + Phone:616- 394-0560 ++Sr. Systems Analyst + 1201 Industrial Avenue + Fax: 616- 392-9495 +++++++++++++++++++++++ Holland MI 49423 ++++++++++++++++++++++ from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Aug 4 07:27:20 1997 Subject: Re: Martha Marie rod Mats - This is from a finished rod that had been varnished, so themeasurements will be about .006-.008 oversize. Also, you should be awarethatthere are often more than one versions of a Young rod. If anyone hassomething more definitive, I hope they will post it. The rod I measuredwas 71/2 feet, 3 piece, for a 5 weight line. Each section was 30 1/2 incheslong. Tip0 -.0825-.08510-.10515-.11820-.12025-.15029-.163 mid33-.17535-.18240-.19245-.21050-.21855-.23558 1/4- .238 Butt62 1/2-.25465-.25870-.27575-.28580-.325 from WILHELM.RON@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Mon Aug 4 08:41:26 1997 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 04 Aug 1997 09:40:18 -0400 Subject: FYI on bamboo -Reply MR. SANTIAGO I HAVE EMAILED YOU DIRECTLY REGARDING YOUR POST. PLEASE LET MEKNOW IF YOU RECEIVED MY MAIL. THANKS. RON from harry37@epix.net Mon Aug 4 08:56:06 1997 JAA24295 Subject: Re: Out Of The Closet WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: sothe Makers Rod is legal( and we even mentioned TroutBum on theapplication) -the printer will have tickets finished wednesday - in time for the FFFinternational conclave here in Grand Rapids next week. If you wantfurtherinformation check out: http://members.aol.com/planecane1/index.htm Being on aol is like being part of the CB craze of several years ago -what's your handle 'good buddy' - any way they allow you 5 screen names(handles) so I used one to set up a home page for the raffle.Jerry and others - if you like you are welcome to lift what you like -if you want the print in a different size or dpi let me know and I cansendas needed. Gee - now I need to get bamboo shipped Wayne Wayne--The page really looks nice--could you send me a file of the print in alarge enough size that I could use it as a wallpaper? You can send offlist. Thanks. Greg Kuntzharry37@epix.net from jockscott@sprynet.com Mon Aug 4 10:29:36 1997 IAA07396 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 08:29:25 -0700 Subject: Re: FYI on bamboo Leo;Just got to work, thought I'd drop you a line. How did your gluingsession with Daryl go?Joe Rosonao and I spent the day Saterday doing the same thing, we gotfive rods done and will have to do another five this weekend. Lots ofblanks, I hate to think of the finish work that lays ahead. I only have a buyer for one, the rest are either rods I donated to FlyClubs or for Karen. Looks like you are getting a response on your post to RodMakers.Talk to you laterS. Gobin from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Aug 4 11:43:21 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Von Weise gear motor I picked up a Von Weise gear motor from American Science & Surplus for$19 - its 115VAC - to turn my rod binding jig. Its appeal is that it is very well made and has a built in gear box which reduces the turn rate to a few revs/minute. I think it needs a capacitor to start and am unsure how to wire it. Are there any EEngs out there who could help? If so, I'll post more details. Thanks, ThomasP@nacm.com from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Aug 4 13:05:55 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Server Internet Mail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 1997 10:45:33 -0700 Subject: RE: Von Weise gear motor 4.0.995.52 do you you have the phone number of AS&S and a part number for themotor (Von Weise gear motor) Patrick ----------From: Thomas Pindelski[SMTP:ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com]Sent: Monday, August 04, 1997 9:41 AM Subject: Von Weise gear motor I picked up a Von Weise gear motor from American Science & Surplus for$19 - its 115VAC - to turn my rod binding jig. Its appeal is that it is very well made and has a built in gear box which reduces the turn rate to a few revs/minute. I think it needs a capacitor to start and am unsure how to wire it. Are there any EEngs out there who could help? If so, I'll post more details. Thanks, ThomasP@nacm.com from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon Aug 4 13:35:19 1997 0000 Subject: Updated page with the Virtual Fly Shop down, i've had a chance to really dig into fixingup my page (http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/), it's almost done, with about20pics. left to scan and post, then that's it!! just letting you all knowabout it....stop by, sign my new guestbook, and e-mail me anysuggestions.....sorry that the frames aren't working yet, going to get mybrother to help me fix them tonight....if you have a link you want posted,e-mail it to me!! BTW...the first rod is done, and the next is going tostart getting roughed out today or tommorrow, building a Garrison 206,andusing components to make it look like an original....wish me luck!! ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////______MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net__/// \\\\_\\\\___________http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/____________\\\____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o------- ---------------------------------------'''''''/||\/||||\ from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Aug 4 15:17:18 1997 Subject: Re: Out Of The Closet RO>Wayne--RO>The page really looks nice--could you send me a file of the print in aRO>large enough size that I could use it as a wallpaper? You can send offRO>list. Thanks. RO>Greg KuntzRO>harry37@epix.net Greg, If you are using Netscape - you can to that yourself. Right clickthe picture and click set as wallpaper. Or save as a .jpg file andconvert it. Don Burns from GAM@mssmtpgate.housing.umich.edu Mon Aug 4 16:27:41 1997 runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.3) mssmtpgate.housing.umich.eduwith Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 04 Aug 1997 17:03:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Out Of The Closet -Reply I lost the "address" for the home page. Could you repost it.Thanks from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Aug 4 17:47:14 1997 TAA00387 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 19:06:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Aluminum Karl I agree with you and Bill. At some point the skill of the craftsman orshould I say artistian comes into play. Rodmaking can be as simple or complex as one makes it. But, it all comes down to understanding somebasic concepts and how well you can execute them - I just fault Bill for forsaking wood forms and going to that new fangled Aluminum! Regards Chris from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Aug 4 18:19:37 1997 Subject: Need reelseat I just acquired a ~7'4" 1929 - 1933 H-I (3/1) rod that had beenbastardized into a spinning rod, I'm trying to put it back to right. Ifanyone has an original H-I NPB cap and ring realseat, from this period,I'd be interested in purchasing it. Please email me directly. Thanks, Don BurnsFlyfisher@bbs.cmix.com PS - Any LA fishermen should know that you now need a permit to park inAngeles Nat. Forest (Piru Creek or San Gabriel River). Cost is $5.00/day- $30.00/year. Nat. Forest ranger was handing out warnings at P.C. onSunday. from harsha@aros.net Mon Aug 4 19:00:11 1997 Subject: Wayne C. Taper Wayne, I don't know if you remember me. We talked on the phone when you werevisiting the Demarest's a while back and I was ordering some cane. Well, I finished my first rod some while back and have had a few chancesto fish it. It is a 7'6" 4-5 3 piece built to your taper. I think itcame out pretty well. I do have a question for you. The rod seemsunderlined with a 4DT. I used Excel to glue it up. Could this be afactor? I am going to start a new rod soon and would like to build an8' 2 piece for a 4DT. I would like this rod for fishing inclose--thirty feet or less. As I am very new at this, I was hoping thatyou or one of the other people on the list might have some suggestions.Any help would be greatly appreciated! One more general comment----I agree with all of the folks who havewritten in in praise of the Demarest's. I got my cane some time ago andwas extremely pleased with the treatment I received. I used the worstculm for my first attempt and aside from some waste caused by problemssplitting-----my own fault!, I found it all usable. Thanks, Mike Harsha from santiago@ricochet.net Mon Aug 4 21:02:56 1997 TAA20181 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 19:02:54 - Subject: Re: FYI on bamboo hi steve, just got back from great fishing with my family. yeh, lots of talkabout the bamboo. daryll loves to stir it up. i have three more blanks, but havent started the finish work. i got anorder for another three blanks which means i don't have to worry aboutfinishing them. hope all is well. when do you want to go fishin? leo from santiago@ricochet.net Mon Aug 4 21:04:38 1997 TAA20502 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 19:04:38 - Subject: Re: FYI on bamboo just got back from fishin.. On the morning of August 1, 1997, I received a telephone call from AndyRoyer, Bamboo Hardwoods. He was calling form Waitsap, China. He askedthat the following information be placed on the Internet for theAmerican rod builders. Andy Royer of Bamboo Hardwoods, Seattle, has spent the last six weeks inthe Waitsap on the Sui River, in China selecting a container of Tonkinbamboo for the American rod building market. Andy personally graded andselected each of the 4600 pieces of cane he purchased. -D. L. Whitehead Andy describes the an as follows: Grade 1Best can availableNo slash marks with good color12ft x 2 inPrice $13.00 each* FOB Seattle Grade 2Less than 10% slash marks, but water marked12ft x 2inPrice $7.50 each* FOB Seattle Grade 1-A600 sticks, same as Grade 17ft long Butt sections used to fill containerPrice $9.00 each* FOB Seattle *NOTE: All prices are based on 20 culm bundles only. It has been a very rainy , wet season in the area and they have haddifficulty having enough sun to color the cane. The majority of thiscane is golden in color, but some have a slight greenish coloration. This container of bamboo will be in Seattle by the middle of September. Andy will be back in Seattle by August, 15th and will be acceptingorders for the sale of the bamboo at (206) 223-0658. Andy is the first American to travel to the bamboo fields and work inthe harvest hand selecting the cane for the American rod buildingmarket. from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Mon Aug 4 21:11:59 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA23517 Subject: Volunteer for Demo, FFF Conclave in MN To those in the upper midwest: I'm in the beginning stages of helping to plan a FFF conclave for theGreat Rivers Council. The conclave will be held next April 4 (1998) herein Minneapolis. I'm wondering if there is a rodmaker in the area (MN, WI, IA, SD, ND)who would be willing to set up and demonstrate at least several stagesof rodbuilding? Feel free to contact me off-list if you're interested. Best regards,Ed EstlowPresident, MN Fly Fishers&Armchair Rodbuilding Enthusiast from santiago@ricochet.net Mon Aug 4 21:26:39 1997 TAA24137 for ; Mon, 4 Aug 1997 19:26:41 - Subject: opps, sorry about the price post please forgive me, someone responded over rodmakers list and i forwarded the price.. again i am sorry for the mistake, leo from tworiver@mtnhome.com Mon Aug 4 21:56:39 1997 with SMTP id VAA09092 for ; Mon, 4 Aug message Subject: Need to contact program chairman Good evening Mr Estlow,I just received a post card, informing me that I should have receivedan invatation to ty at the Southeasten conclave. I have until the ninth ofthis month to let someone know that I wish to ty at the show, in MoutainHome Oct. this year. If you could pass my address along or maybe youhave a contact I could make. Thank You. Bob Roottworiver@mtnhome.comHCR 63 Box 14BYellville, Ar. 72687 ----------To those in the upper midwest: I'm in the beginning stages of helping to plan a FFF conclave for theGreat Rivers Council. The conclave will be held next April 4 (1998) herein Minneapolis. I'm wondering if there is a rodmaker in the area (MN, WI, IA, SD, ND)who would be willing to set up and demonstrate at least several stagesof rodbuilding? Feel free to contact me off-list if you're interested. Best regards,Ed EstlowPresident, MN Fly Fishers&Armchair Rodbuilding Enthusiast from kanarekorigami@hotmail.com Tue Aug 5 09:28:57 1997 Tue, 05 Aug 1997 07:28:24 PDT If you are looking for qualty 18% nickle silver reel seats write me I am the manufactures rep. for a custom shop.Vennerie reels seats have been made to the exacting standers you are looking for.Tight lines: Mike Kanarek ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from s.wang@cummins.com Tue Aug 5 10:26:01 1997 10:25:11 -0500 smap (3.2) (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Mike Kanarek wrote: If you are looking for qualty 18% nickle silver reel seats write me I amthe manufactures rep. for a custom shop.Vennerie reels seats have been made to the exacting standers you arelooking for.Tight lines: Mike Kanarek ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.comDo you have any catalogue or price list?-- Simon T. C. Wang s.wang@cummins.comSoftware Engineer Cummins Engine Company, Inc. http://www.cummins.com4080 West Jonathan Moore PikeCMC-7003, WestHill PlazaColumbus, IN 47201 Tel: (812)377-7632Fax: (812)377-1110 from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue Aug 5 14:34:06 1997 SVR4) PDT Subject: Andy Royer's culms I read with interest that Mr Royer's comoany, Bamboo Hardwoods ofSeattle, will be selling culms in mid-September. As I cannot justify buying 20 x 12ft culms, is there anyone in the SanDiego area who would be willing to split a minimum order with me - that makesit $130 FOB Seattle each? If so, please email me direct at ThomasP@nacm.com Thank you. from rbrown@infocom.net Tue Aug 5 15:10:44 1997 login1.infocom.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA19829 for; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:28:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Andy Royer's culms I'm interested in buying bamboo from Andy Royer but need only approx 1/4culms. Is there someone in the southeast (Galveston) Tx area that wantsto get together to buy a culms and divide it. Thanks Rob from eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com Tue Aug 5 16:56:29 1997 gateus.meissner-wurst.com via smap (3.2) with SMTP id AAA304; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 16:59:30 -0500 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 000079F1; Tue, 5 Aug 9717:06:04 -0500 Subject: Re[2]: Andy Royer's culms --IMA.Boundary.467818078 I'm just getting started with rodmaking (and a newbie to the listserv group), and I'd be happy to split an order with you... provided I don't end up with too much raw material. I don't think I'll have time to do more than a few rods per year. I live in Austin, and I get to the Houston/Galveston area a few times a year. Email me direct to discuss details... Thanks,Eck ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Andy Royer's culmsAuthor: Robbie Brown at SMTP_Gateway I'm interested in buying bamboo from Andy Royer but need only approx 1/4 culms. Is there someone in the southeast (Galveston) Tx area that wants to get together to buy a culms and divide it. Thanks Rob--IMA.Boundary.467818078 headers" ccgate.us.meissner-wurst.com with SMTP(IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 000079AE; Tue, 5 Aug 9715:36:46-0500 with ESMTP id AAA179 for ;Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:29:14 -0500 16:20:55 wurst.com viasmap (3.2) login1.infocom.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA19829 for; Tue, 5 Aug 1997 15:28:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Andy Royer's culms --IMA.Boundary.467818078-- from BBAUSUM@radiantsystems.com Wed Aug 6 09:30:05 1997 ESMTP id aa075946 for ; Wed, 6 Aug 199710:34:16 -0400 Subject: Antique? I have a friend at work who has an Edward Bristol bamboo rod.It is signed and seems to be a 9' 12 wt rod. His father in law was into salmon fishing. Thanks in advance,Bob from GAM@mssmtpgate.housing.umich.edu Wed Aug 6 09:49:27 1997 runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.3) mssmtpgate.housing.umich.eduwith Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:49:54 -0500 Subject: Andy Royer's culms -Reply I am also interested in splitting an order. I'm in southeat Michigan ifanybody else wants to split. from kanarekorigami@hotmail.com Wed Aug 6 12:29:10 1997 Wed, 06 Aug 1997 10:28:37 PDT Subject: Herters Bamboo Rod Building Book Rare Herter's Bamboo Rod Building book for sale! Higest offer over $90 takes this mint condition gem.I was the owner of Hackle & Tackle fly fishing shop of Saugerties NY and had a complete collection of Herters books.Many have dismissed Herter due to his anti-semtic personality. However, the information in this publication out weighs most others on the subject. If you wish to talk with me about this book you may call 914-339-1795 e.s.t. between 7:30 &9:30 PM thanks Mike Kanarek ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Wed Aug 6 12:56:44 1997 97 10:56:09 -0700 Subject: Re: Antique? Bristol rods are well made and under appreciated, in my opinion. Even thelowend models have good cane work and ferrules. Most 9'0" Bristols go forunder$200, but I have never seen a bona fide Bristol salmon rod for sale, so youmay have something pretty rare. If you're interested in selling, I couldsendyou a list of dealers (e-mail me directly: richard.a.margiotta@cpmx.saic.com --Rich------------------------------ I have a friend at work who has an Edward Bristol bamboo rod.It is signed and seems to be a 9' 12 wt rod. His father in law was into salmon fishing. Thanks in advance,Bob ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 07:39:52-0700 ESMTP 10:34:16 -0400 Subject: Antique? from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Wed Aug 6 18:49:34 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 6 Aug 1997 17:49:30 MDT #19314) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Varnish Has anyone had experience with "Valspar Exterior Gloss Spar Varnish" ? Ihave a chance to get some for $10.00 a gallon bu t don't know if it wouldbe useful. Thanks in advance.jerry from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Thu Aug 7 08:44:30 1997 Subject: FFF conclave in MN I'm kinda interested in learning more about the FFF conclave in MN nextspring.Does anyone (including Ed Estlow) have Ed Estlow's e-mail address? --Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from s.wang@cummins.com Thu Aug 7 10:01:09 1997 09:58:48 -0500 smap (3.2) (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: FFF conclave in MN Does anybody have a tapper for a weight 7 or 8 bass rod to share?Thanks! Simon T. C. Wang s.wang@cummins.comSoftware Engineer Cummins Engine Company, Inc. http://www.cummins.com4080 West Jonathan Moore PikeCMC-7003, WestHill PlazaColumbus, IN 47201 Tel: (812)377-7632Fax: (812)377-1110 from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Thu Aug 7 18:47:08 1997 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA23378 Subject: Re: FFF conclave in MN Mark M Freed wrote: I'm kinda interested in learning more about the FFF conclave in MN nextspring.Does anyone (including Ed Estlow) have Ed Estlow's e-mail address? --Mark M. Freed,Department of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mark, My e-mail address is: eestlow@worldnet.att.net Sorry about that. Contributors' addresses appear on my e-mail utility,so I assumed mine appears on theirs. Not much to say yet about the conclave. Its the first time (at least ina long time) that any of us have done this. Kind of an experiment. Itwill be a one day affair, April 4, 1998. Details to follow. Best regards,Ed Estlow from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Aug 7 21:32:43 1997 Subject: Tickets & Conclave (different One) I met up with Larry Cory this evening at the FFF conclave in GrandRapids- he had been to his printer and the tickets for The Makers Rod 98 are nowavailable. I will be resending this note to those that asked to reservetickets. And for those who didn't reserve tickets but would like to obtain George Mason Chapter of Trout UnlimitedP.O. Box 502Grayling, MI 49738ATTN: Makers Rod Raffle Also, I have been asked if batches of tickets can be sent out so thatother can sell them. Yes - for those wishing to help market tickets we cansend lots of 5 out at a time - at present I am not sure of the exactshippingbut some registered fashion. I would ask that the purchasing individualmakea check payable to the Chapter and then those selling could return checkandstub. let me know. I would thank the list members for their tolerance for the postsconcerning the rod raffle - it isn't exactly rodmaking but yet it is a waythat rodmaking can support the resources and I appreciate your patients. As I mentioned at the start, the FFF international conclave is in thenearby suburb of Grand Rapids. There is a retail show that startstomorrowafternoon and runs through the weekend. At last count I knew of over 100exhibitors with several rodmakers and like interests. The casting pondshad alittle set back - 2 out of 3 rolls of plastic had gaping holes in them but atrip to the customer service counter of Builders Square took care of that. Thanks AgainWayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Aug 7 22:49:59 1997 Subject: Diptube - FYI A while back a friend and I were trying to solve a finish problem hewashaving - the poly on the rod surface had long gaps in it and the gaps wererandom. Well, after several nights of thought we developed an insulationmethod and sure enough it was something in the diptube - either thevarnishor the tube itself. Well in the end - after much frustration - it was thetube or rather the flux that was used in assembling the copper parts tomakethe diptube. Even though the tube had been flushed with paint thinner afterassembly the paint thinner didn't remove the excess flux. The gaps in thefinish came from small droplets of flux intermixed in the surface of thepoly. As the rod was run into the finish the vortex drew the contaminatestothe rod - leaving a longish streak of acid on the surface - not allowing thefinish to adhere. Eventually the tube was taken apart - unsoldiered - todiscover the excess flux. After re-assembly the thought was to use a'hotter'cleaner - acetone. from a test I did later to assure our thoughts - acetonewill disolve the soldiering flux whereas paint thinner won't. Another learn from experience experiences. Wayne from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Fri Aug 8 14:54:18 1997 12:53:43 -0700 Subject: William Read & Sons Subject: Time: 2:56 PMOFFICE MEMO William Read & Sons Date: 8/8/97 I have a rod marked as William Read & Sons (Boston). The model is"Kennebago", after the famous Maine River. It has an all n/s reel seat andn/s ferrules. Any idea as to the maker? Thanks a bunch. --Rich from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Aug 8 18:06:15 1997 Subject: Challenges Hi Harry Boyd and others, FORM, a newsletter for those who make and appreciate the split bambooflyrod. You should subscribe. Contact Ron Barch, Editor. Who knows what Ron'slatest E-Mail address is? Use snail mail: PO Box 365, Hastings, MI. 49058.Also arrange to get his book BEST OF THE PLANING FORM. It has info onaluminum forms and a boatload of other rod-building gems.Sorry for the delay in getting back to you. I was disconnected. Bill from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sat Aug 9 12:15:51 1997 Subject: RE:William Read & Sons RO> Subject: Time: 2:56 PMRO> OFFICE MEMO William Read & Sons Date: 8/8/97 RO>I have a rod marked as William Read & Sons (Boston). The model isRO>"Kennebago", after the famous Maine River. It has an all n/s reel seatandRO>n/s ferrules. Any idea as to the maker? Thanks a bunch. RO>--Rich Rich, I looked in my copy of Sinclair's Heddon book - no reference to Wm. Reed& Sons. Might be one of many trade rods from any of the major productioncompanies. You'd need to provide more details. Don Burns from mrj@seanet.com Sat Aug 9 22:58:20 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA24225 for Subject: Recorcinal clamp delay? I have just started using Recorcinal glue and (of course) I never readthe instructions until I had glued up the rod. I noticed that it said tospread on the glue and let it sit for about 10 minutes before clamping.I did not do this. I spread on the glue, then went over again using moreglue a second time, and then clamped. I have done one rod withRecorcinal and it seems fine. Does anyone else wait the ten minutesbefore clamping? Do you think I should start doing so? The temperaturewas 70 degrees with maybe 40% to 50% humidity or so (Seattle).Note: I plan on taking the rod out of the binding cord in 2 days. Theinstructions say full stress joints are OK an about 8 hours and my gluedrying temperature is about 100 degrees.-- Martin Jensen from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Aug 10 21:18:10 1997 Mon, 11 Aug 1997 10:17:48 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Recorcinal clamp delay? I'm using mainly resorcinol and prefer it to UF even though it does leave the glueline that's hard to miss.I haven't been giving it any open time other than the time it takes to spread the glue and get the bundle of splines together ready for binding and haven't had any problems. One thing to watch however is that all the brands of resorcinol I know of shouldn't be used in temps of lower than 10 deg centigrade (F?) including the time it takes to cure.I've tried using it in lower temps on woods in the past and have alwayshad failures or one type or another but it isn't too dif to get around that with rods as you can just keep it inside. 2 days seems an OK time to leave the rod before unbinding in the temps you mention, you could prob do it sooner if you needed but the longer the better. Tony On Sat, 9 Aug 1997, Martin Jensen wrote: I have just started using Recorcinal glue and (of course) I never readthe instructions until I had glued up the rod. I noticed that it said tospread on the glue and let it sit for about 10 minutes before clamping.I did not do this. I spread on the glue, then went over again using moreglue a second time, and then clamped. I have done one rod withRecorcinal and it seems fine. Does anyone else wait the ten minutesbefore clamping? Do you think I should start doing so? The temperaturewas 70 degrees with maybe 40% to 50% humidity or so (Seattle).Note: I plan on taking the rod out of the binding cord in 2 days. Theinstructions say full stress joints are OK an about 8 hours and my gluedrying temperature is about 100 degrees.-- Martin Jensen /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mrj@seanet.com Sun Aug 10 22:36:52 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA10164 for Subject: Re: Recorcinal clamp delay? Tony Young wrote: I'm using mainly resorcinol and prefer it to UF even though it does leavethe glueline that's hard to miss.I haven't been giving it any open time other than the time it takes tospread the glue and get the bundle of splines together ready for bindingand haven't had any problems. One thing to watch however is thatall the brands of resorcinol I know of shouldn't be used in temps oflower than 10 deg centigrade (F?) including the time it takes to cure.I've tried using it in lower temps on woods in the past and have alwayshadfailures or one type or another but it isn't too dif to get around thatwith rods as you can just keep it inside.2 days seems an OK time to leave the rod before unbinding in the tempsyou mention, you could prob do it sooner if you needed but the longer thebetter. Tony On Sat, 9 Aug 1997, Martin Jensen wrote: I have just started using Recorcinal glue and (of course) I never readthe instructions until I had glued up the rod. I noticed that it said tospread on the glue and let it sit for about 10 minutes before clamping.I did not do this. I spread on the glue, then went over again using moreglue a second time, and then clamped. I have done one rod withRecorcinal and it seems fine. Does anyone else wait the ten minutesbefore clamping? Do you think I should start doing so? The temperaturewas 70 degrees with maybe 40% to 50% humidity or so (Seattle).Note: I plan on taking the rod out of the binding cord in 2 days. Theinstructions say full stress joints are OK an about 8 hours and my gluedrying temperature is about 100 degrees.--Martin Jensen /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/Thanks Tony,I noticed the warning about using the glue at low temperatures also.It's hot in Seattle now so it went on at about 70 degrees.(20 C)-- Martin Jensen from steviemo@iquest.net Mon Aug 11 10:29:05 1997 0000 Subject: Makers question Hello All, Was wondering if anyone has ever heard of Parker Custom of Roswell, GA?Just trying to find some info on them. Regards, Steve Steve StillabowerIndianapolis, Insteviemo@iquest.net from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Aug 12 10:56:15 1997 RAA23272 for ; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 17:01:53+0100 Subject: Rod Turner Chucks Rod Turner Chucks I have a good little electric motor and gearbox that turns at 6 rpm forturning rod sections whilst drying wrap fillers. I'm going to order asuitable chuck from Jann's Netcraft or Angler's Workshop. We simplycannotget them here in Britain. Can anyone offer advice on which is the best to use. I notice that theJann's model has adjustable rubber 'fingers', whereas the AW type has aflexible foam core that grips any size of ferrule (they claim). Alternatively, maybe someone has a spare or two that I might buy. Another question: is Flexcoat wrap filler any better than the Gibbs orGudebrod high build fillers? Incidentally Darryl, your suggestion that theGudebrod problems I experienced might be due to settlement wasabsolutelyspot-on. I stirred up each of the brews before mixing, and the stuff wentoff like iron in no time, and with no stickiness. So relieved am I, that youare hereby honourably Knighted, Sir Darryl, and may change your writingpaper to indicate your new status. John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Aug 12 13:18:08 1997 Subject: RE:Rod Turner Chucks RO>Rod Turner Chucks RO>I have a good little electric motor and gearbox that turns at 6 rpm forRO>turning rod sections whilst drying wrap fillers. I'm going to order aRO>suitable chuck from Jann's Netcraft or Angler's Workshop. We simplycannotRO>get them here in Britain. RO>Can anyone offer advice on which is the best to use. I notice that theRO>Jann's model has adjustable rubber 'fingers', whereas the AW type hasaRO>flexible foam core that grips any size of ferrule (they claim). RO>Alternatively, maybe someone has a spare or two that I might buy. RO>Another question: is Flexcoat wrap filler any better than the Gibbs orRO>Gudebrod high build fillers? Incidentally Darryl, your suggestion thattheRO>Gudebrod problems I experienced might be due to settlement wasabsolutelyRO>spot-on. I stirred up each of the brews before mixing, and the stuffwentRO>off like iron in no time, and with no stickiness. So relieved am I, thatyouRO>are hereby honourably Knighted, Sir Darryl, and may change yourwritingRO>paper to indicate your new status. RO>John Cooper (England) John, You can make something up from a large PVC pipe cap - drill a hole inthe center of the cap, put a bolt through the hole and add a nut on theoutside. Then you can fill the cap with a piece of foam or drill threeundersized holes in the circumference (120 deg apart) and screw threesmaller bolts through the plastic towards a common center. The boltsshould self-tap the plastic. Clemens sells a rubber-donut chuck (same as on the Flexcoat dryingmachine in AW's catalog). It's the kind that uses a hose clamp aroundthe donut. Cat. page #18 - P/N 60-34-02 price $10.95 Clemens444 Schantz RoadAllentown, PA 18104 USAPhone # (610) 395-5119 Fax # (610) 398-2580 LAter, Don BurnsPeasant and taxpayer Wishful collector of Gillum and Dickerson rods - owner of Montague, H-Iand Heddons from CharlesIrvine@compuserve.com Tue Aug 12 13:22:44 1997 Subject: Tuxedo Cane I just returned from a trip to Stockton, Calif and a visit to Tuxedo Cane.I was very low on cane so I called Eddie Perez and set up a date to pick upa couple of bundles. Eddie has many jobs and so can be hard at times to getto talk to but persistance paid off. The trip was well worth the effort,the cane I bought was very good quality with no farmers marks. Mr. Perezculls the badly marked cane from his stock and sells them seperatly at amuch reduced cost, ideal for the nodeless rods or for first time makers.The cane that I purchased was from the 95 harvest but he had a largeshipment of 96 still in the bundles which looked very good, thick walls,straight and good color, I brought one with me randomly selected from atopbundle. racks going up to the warehouse ceiling. On the drive home I promisedmyself to to share my experience with Tuxedo with the group. I know thatmany rodmakers have a strong loyalty to a long time supplier of cane butifwant or need cane that has the bad farmers marks culled out or can usethecane with grafity at a reduced price, here is a very good alternative. Tight linesCharles Irvine from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Aug 12 16:00:41 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Tuxedo Cane how much a culm for a bundle and how many culms in a bundle. Patrick ----------From: Charles A. Irvine[SMTP:CharlesIrvine@compuserve.com]Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 1997 11:21 AM Subject: Tuxedo Cane I just returned from a trip to Stockton, Calif and a visit to TuxedoCane.I was very low on cane so I called Eddie Perez and set up a date topick upa couple of bundles. Eddie has many jobs and so can be hard at timesto getto talk to but persistance paid off. The trip was well worth theeffort,the cane I bought was very good quality with no farmers marks. Mr.Perezculls the badly marked cane from his stock and sells them seperatly atamuch reduced cost, ideal for the nodeless rods or for first timemakers.The cane that I purchased was from the 95 harvest but he had a largeshipment of 96 still in the bundles which looked very good, thickwalls,straight and good color, I brought one with me randomly selected froma topbundle. onracks going up to the warehouse ceiling. On the drive home I promisedmyself to to share my experience with Tuxedo with the group. I knowthatmany rodmakers have a strong loyalty to a long time supplier of canebut ifwant or need cane that has the bad farmers marks culled out or can usethecane with grafity at a reduced price, here is a very good alternative. Tight linesCharles Irvine from davej@boss.com Tue Aug 12 16:22:04 1997 OAA04766 for ; Tue,12 Aug 1997 14:16:57 -0700 smap (V1.3) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.WKH.970527) via SMTP id OAA11293 for; Tue, 12 Aug 1997 14:17:45 -0700 Subject: RE:Rod Turner Chucks John Cooper mentioned a company called Jann's Netcraft for rod buildingsupplies/tools, does anybody have their phone number and address (e-mailtoo, if available)? Thanks in advance, Dave Jones,davej@boss.com from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Aug 12 16:37:36 1997 Subject: RE:Rod Turner Chucks/Netcraft RO>John Cooper mentioned a company called Jann's Netcraft for rodbuildingRO>supplies/tools, does anybody have their phone number and address (e-mailRO>too, if available)? RO>Thanks in advance, RO>Dave Jones,RO>davej@boss.com Dave, Jann's NetcraftP.O. Box 89Maumee, OH 43537(800) NETCRAFT(419) 868- 8288FAX (419) 868-8338Email I don't have - I think there's an AOL address. from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Aug 12 19:06:55 1997 (205.236.249.91) Subject: very strange Hi all,Looks as though I am signed up again for rodmakers, I do not know howthis happened.I hardly qualify as a rodmaker at present, I have not touched a piece ofbamboo for 3 months, except for training the beans up some of the scrapcane in the garden.I do enjoy the occasional late night scroll through the archives inJerry Fosters great site. I find that a half hour read of the archivesis most benificial to a bout of insomnia.Terry Ackland from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Aug 12 19:13:16 1997 Subject: Re: Rod Turner Chucks In a message dated 97-08-12 12:30:59 EDT, you write: Another question: is Flexcoat wrap filler any better than the Gibbs orGudebrod high build fillers? Incidentally Darryl, your suggestion thattheGudebrod problems I experienced might be due to settlement wasabsolutelyspot-on. I stirred up each of the brews before mixing, and the stuffwentoff like iron in no time, and with no stickiness. So relieved am I, thatyouare hereby honourably Knighted, Sir Darryl, and may change your writingpaper to indicate your new status. I'm happy I could help you out. Wow - knighted from a real Englishman. I've used Gudebrod and Flexcoat, I didn't see any difference between thetwo. I generally use the Lite Formula Flexcoat though, just as a matterof taste. I don't like a lot of epoxy on my wraps. Sir Darryl from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Aug 12 19:22:07 1997 (205.236.249.91) Subject: Re: Rod Turner Chucks John Cooper wrote: Rod Turner Chucks I have a good little electric motor and gearbox that turns at 6 rpmforturning rod sections whilst drying wrap fillers. I'm going to order asuitable chuck from Jann's Netcraft or Angler's Workshop. We simplycannotget them here in Britain. Can anyone offer advice on which is the best to use. I notice that the Jann's model has adjustable rubber 'fingers', whereas the AW type hasaflexible foam core that grips any size of ferrule (they claim). Alternatively, maybe someone has a spare or two that I might buy. Another question: is Flexcoat wrap filler any better than the Gibbs or Gudebrod high build fillers? Incidentally Darryl, your suggestion thattheGudebrod problems I experienced might be due to settlement wasabsolutelyspot-on. I stirred up each of the brews before mixing, and the stuffwentoff like iron in no time, and with no stickiness. So relieved am I,that youare hereby honourably Knighted, Sir Darryl, and may change yourwritingpaper to indicate your new status. John Cooper (England) Get a short length of flexible plastic pipe that fits on the motorshaft but is an inch or two longer. Slit the the surplus tube intothree or four legs that can be then be fixed around the ferrule with anelastic band or light cord.The easy way is the best.Terry from KDLoup@aol.com Tue Aug 12 22:15:19 1997 Subject: Re: Rod Turner Chucks Dave, The address for Jann's is - PO Box 89, Maumee OH 43537 - and thetelephone number is 1(800)638-2723. They don't appear to have an emailaddress. Good luck. Kurt Loup from pallen@wcoil.com Wed Aug 13 07:01:45 1997 alpha.wcoil.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00776 for Subject: Mentor for a day... Greetings all, I have been reading up on cane rod-building with the hopes of building myown rod. The problem is I can't seem to put together what I'm readingwithout seeing the process actually happen. With that in mind, I was hoping there might be someone in the Midwest(Southern Michigan, Ohio, Northern Kentucky, Western Pennsylvania, orEastern Indiana) who would be willing to let me stop by their shop for aday to see your equipment and how this actually works. (I currently live inNW Ohio) As long as I don't have too much coffee, I'll keep out of your way! Patrickpallen@wcoil.com from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Aug 13 08:21:27 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Mentor for a day... If you want to see how and when to use the various tools in rod buildingI suggest you get Wayne Cattanach's video tape. It's a fairly goodlearning tool. Patrick ----------From: Patrick Allen[SMTP:pallen@wcoil.com]Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 1997 5:04 AM Subject: Mentor for a day... Greetings all, I have been reading up on cane rod-building with the hopes of buildingmyown rod. The problem is I can't seem to put together what I'm readingwithout seeing the process actually happen. With that in mind, I was hoping there might be someone in the Midwest(Southern Michigan, Ohio, Northern Kentucky, Western Pennsylvania, orEastern Indiana) who would be willing to let me stop by their shop foraday to see your equipment and how this actually works. (I currentlylive inNW Ohio) As long as I don't have too much coffee, I'll keep out of your way! Patrickpallen@wcoil.com from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Wed Aug 13 19:02:20 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 13 Aug 1997 18:02:16 MDT #19314) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Info & help I met with Bill Hensel a former list member last night. He has been takingcare of many personal things. I cast his 6'6" Cattanach taper. He did anice job. He asked if I would drop a word to the list about him. Pleaseexcuse the length. The help I need is could the person who recently postedabout visiting Tuxedo Cane contact me off list. I deleted the post and would like to visit with you. Thanks to all for putting up with this post.jerry from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Aug 13 19:14:19 1997 Subject: Re: Mentor for a day... In a message dated 97-08-13 19:28:47 EDT, you write: With that in mind, I was hoping there might be someone in the Midwest(Southern Michigan, Ohio, Northern Kentucky, Western Pennsylvania, orEastern Indiana) who would be willing to let me stop by their shop for aday to see your equipment and how this actually works. (I currently liveinNW Ohio) Get Wayne Cattanach's video. If you can stay awake (sorry Wayne) ithas all the information you need, and shows you how to do everythingyou need to do. Even hanging around somebodies shop for a full dayisn't going to show you all you need to know. Not unless he has severalrods in different stages of completion. I still sometimes refer back to thevideo to review something I haven't done in a while. Sir Darryl from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Aug 13 19:23:29 1997 Subject: Re: Mentor for a day... Patrick -Perhaps what you need to do is to attend one of the get togethers - thechoices in your area would be the one at Grand River or the one in Grayling.Not only will you be able to get hands on help but also meet other with asimilar interest Wayne from sats@gte.net Wed Aug 13 19:46:57 1997 Subject: Re: very strange Looks as though I am signed up again for rodmakers, I do not know howthis happened....Terry Ackland Glad to see you back. You live up North, do you not? My wife and I spent a memorable 12 daysacrossthe border with our northern neighbors, this July. Before that I got to Fish for steelhead on the North Umpqua with an old9ft.7wt. that someone saved from the trash man (then gave it to me), someyears ago. I enjoyed the entire trip. Caught one Trout on 'that other material" andsawseveral Elk. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Wed Aug 13 19:46:57 1997 Subject: Re: Rod Turner Chucks Get a short length of flexible plastic pipe that fits on the motorshaft but is an inch or two longer. Slit the the surplus tube intothree or four legs that can be then be fixed around the ferrule with anelastic band or light cord.The easy way is the best.Terry Another way to hold the end in place is with masking tape. You can notonlysnuggly hold the three tube ends together, but also bind the work piece tothetube.Just don't leave it on for more then about a day and a half. The other Terry Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Wed Aug 13 19:46:58 1997 Subject: Honorary titles and all that. So relieved am I, thatyouare hereby honourably Knighted, Sir Darryl, and may change yourwritingpaper to indicate your new status. I'm happy I could help you out. Wow - knighted from a real Englishman. ...Sir Darryl Be careful Darryl, he may be fishing for honorary "Yank" status. Then we'dhaveto teach him the secret handshake!!! Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Aug 13 20:47:38 1997 Subject: Re: Honorary titles and all that. In a message dated 97-08-13 20:48:28 EDT, you write: Be careful Darryl, he may be fishing for honorary "Yank" status. Thenwe'd haveto teach him the secret handshake!!! But I live in *Southern* California.... Sir D. from CharlesIrvine@compuserve.com Wed Aug 13 21:36:14 1997 Subject: Info & help Jerry, Here I am, the guy who posted the Tuxedo Cane stuff, How may I help you? Chuckcharlesirvine@compuserve.com from CharlesIrvine@compuserve.com Wed Aug 13 21:45:26 1997 Subject: Tuxedo Jerry, Tried to contact you off list with no luck, try me again. Chuckcharlesirvine@compuserve.com from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Thu Aug 14 09:53:49 1997 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:53:40 -0400 Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:53:40 -0400 Thu, 14 Aug 1997 10:53:40 -0400 Subject: Line tensioners I am new to this list and to the hobby. Right now I am saving up for"proper"forms (the reality of two small children) and building a binding machine. Ijust happened by a sewing machine repair shop today and got the idea topop inand see if they had any tensioners available cheap. What I found was acollection of used tensioners varying from residential to commercialgrade.The owner feels that any tensioner would do, but recommended onewithout atake-spring on it. I selected and older balck and chrome / all metal modelwith a shaft that could be easily glued into wood or fastened to a metalplate. I walked out with the tensioner and a great assortment of threadguides * John A. Whitaker* NYSDOH AIDS Institute: 372 Corning Tower* E-Mail: jaw12@health.state.ny.us* (518) 486-1383 from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Thu Aug 14 11:03:37 1997 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:03:33 -0400 Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:03:33 -0400 Thu, 14 Aug 1997 12:03:33 -0400 Subject: Japanese Planes Does anybody have experience or comments on planing cane with Japaneseplanes.My experience with these is with musical instrument making and that theyarecapable of some very fine work. Plus, with a wooden sole, I could easilysanda groove in the center of the sole... * John A. Whitaker* NYSDOH AIDS Institute: 372 Corning Tower* E-Mail: jaw12@health.state.ny.us* (518) 486-1383 from GEORGE_BOURKE@HP-SantaClara-om2.om.hp.com Thu Aug 1411:31:42 1997 (8.7.1/8.7.3 TIS 5.0 Openmail) id JAA05438 for Subject: Re: Mentor for a day... Item Subject: 1.txt "unix headers"Could not convert BINARY FILE item to text.Will attempt to 'shar' item as file '05m226j' at end of msg. ....................................................................... Wayne (or anyone else with info), Are there any such get-togethers in Northern California? George ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Mentor for a day...Author: Non-HP-WayneCatt (WayneCatt@aol.com) at HP- SantaClara,shargw1 Patrick -Perhaps what you need to do is to attend one of the get togethers - thechoices in your area would be the one at Grand River or the one in Grayling. Not only will you be able to get hands on help but also meet other with a similar interest Wayne # This is a shell archive. Remove anything before this line,# then unpack it by saving it in a file and typing "sh file". from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Thu Aug 14 13:19:03 1997 Subject: finishing I would like to start a discussion concerning the relative advantages anddisadvantages of dipping before guides are wrapped versus dipping afterguidesare attached. I have been dipping after wrapping guides, and the problem Iencounter is that sanding inbetween coats is much mode involved. Cananyonethink of a disadvantage to dipping then wrapping? or are there distinctadvantages which make the troublesom sanding necessary/worth while? -- Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Aug 14 14:04:06 1997 Subject: Re: Mentor for a day... Geoge, maybe an Oregon/California gathering-somewhere along the Rogueormaybe the Sacramento, or Klamath? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: GEORGE_BOURKE@HP-SantaClara-om2.om.hp.com Subject: Re: Mentor for a day...Date: Thursday, August 14, 1997 9:31 AM Item Subject: 1.txt "unix headers"Could not convert BINARY FILE item to text.Will attempt to 'shar' item as file '05m226j' at end of msg. ....................................................................... Wayne (or anyone else with info), Are there any such get-togethers in Northern California? George ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Mentor for a day...Author: Non-HP-WayneCatt (WayneCatt@aol.com) at HP- SantaClara,shargw1Date: 8/13/97 5:22 PM Patrick -Perhaps what you need to do is to attend one of the get togethers - thechoices in your area would be the one at Grand River or the one inGrayling. Not only will you be able to get hands on help but also meet other with a similar interest Wayne 0 from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Aug 14 15:48:52 1997 Subject: Obsession "Obsession - a persistant disturbing preoccupation with an oftenunreasonable idea or feeling" In Mr. Garrison's book there is a short thank you written to his wife. Itthanks her for the years of taking care of upstairs as he, Mr. Garrison, setabout downstairs. The reason I'm reminded of this is that 'Ben' and I havejust past the 24 year mark and finally this weekend she will have mealone. Isuspect that it may be the same in several households where the termrodmakeris also used.Ben and I have had our ups and down over the years, just as many othercouples do. But in it all she has shown extreme patients for the thingsthatI do. And in trying to build our relationship we have read several books onrelations. In one the author refers to the caves that some of us withdrawto.A cave isn't necessarily a place although my basement area coulddefinatelyqualify, it can be just an absence from communication or preoccupation aswell.Admittedly, for me rodmaking has become an obsession or a cave in ourrelationship. It's in realizing this that makes me ask myself the whyquestion. But in trying to find an answer I bump into inner feeling that arefirst hard to face and secondly hard to confess. First it was the dream andthen it became the people.I would hope that I'm not the only one that has dreamed of being the nextEverett Garrison. You know - the sort of dream you have as a kid - the kindof thing that you can only share with your best friend - sort of a secret.But dreams take time to chase and occassionally they can become hauntingasyou start to see them come true. A dreams is a pristene thing it lacks that cloud which is known asreality. For a rodmaker the dream of selling the rod is clouded with thereality of the hours spend in isolation to make the tangible. from dragon@blueridge.net Thu Aug 14 16:12:05 1997 Subject: Re: Obsession WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: In Mr. Garrison's book there is a short thank you written to his wife. Itthanks her for the years of taking care of upstairs as he, Mr. Garrison,setabout downstairs. The reason I'm reminded of this is that 'Ben' and I havejust past the 24 year mark and finally this weekend she will have mealone. Isuspect that it may be the same in several households where the termrodmakeris also used. Congratulations! Hope you have another 24 (or more)! I would hope that I'm not the only one that has dreamed of being thenextEverett Garrison. You know - the sort of dream you have as a kid - thekindof thing that you can only share with your best friend - sort of a secret.But dreams take time to chase and occassionally they can becomehaunting asyou start to see them come true.A dreams is a pristene thing it lacks that cloud which is known asreality. For a rodmaker the dream of selling the rod is clouded with thereality of the hours spend in isolation to make the tangible. I know I have that same dream. Maybe it will happen, maybe it won't,but the dream is real nice. Donald Yelton "I Byde My Tyme"1496 Piney Ridge Rd Apt F dragon@blueridge.netForest City, NC 28043 (704) 248-2093 from mrj@seanet.com Thu Aug 14 16:12:20 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA28077 for Subject: Re: finishing Mark M Freed wrote: I would like to start a discussion concerning the relative advantages anddisadvantages of dipping before guides are wrapped versus dipping afterguidesare attached. I have been dipping after wrapping guides, and the problemIencounter is that sanding inbetween coats is much mode involved. Cananyonethink of a disadvantage to dipping then wrapping? or are there distinctadvantages which make the troublesom sanding necessary/worth while? -- Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.eduI agree that it is a bit more difficult to sand between coats with theguides on. I just use steel wood #0000 grade and it really isn't toomuch of a problem though. The reason I like to have the guides on isthat I can easily check for any twists in the rod with guides on. Onetime I crudely wrapped on guides, then straightened, and than removedthe guides for varnishing. I don't do this now. I wrap the guidesstraighten and varnish. Just too lazy to remove the guides and put themback on again. Again, I don't sand the blank between coats, just steelwool, and that is not too tough to do for me.-- Martin Jensen from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Aug 14 16:26:00 1997 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Any makers near Calumet, Michigan? I will be attending a conference in Calumet next week, and of courseI'll be bringing my rod I finished up this past spring to try outon the local waters. If there are any fellow listmembers in thearea, I would like to meet you and swap stories and tales of woe.Contact me at: ballard@zen.wes.army.mil -Jerry from lblan@oeonline.com Thu Aug 14 18:05:37 1997 (Smail3.1.28.1 #3) id m0wz8lV-00041qC; Thu, 14 Aug 97 18:53 EDT Subject: Re: Obsession Well spoken Wayne.... -----Original Message----- Subject: Obsession "Obsession - a persistant disturbing preoccupation with an oftenunreasonable idea or feeling" from pallen@wcoil.com Thu Aug 14 18:38:03 1997 alpha.wcoil.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12689 for Subject: Re: Mentor for a day... Wayne, Thanks for your post about my request to see someone's shop and tools. Could you tell me when the next "gathering" will be in either GrandRiver or in Grayling? Will these be posted on the list? Thanks foryour help. Patrickpallen@wcoil.com from SacMan6@aol.com Thu Aug 14 18:41:20 1997 Subject: Re: Obsession Wayne,Happy 24th to you and the Mrs. Thought provocing posting.Dreams are for chassing. Danny from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Aug 14 19:25:14 1997 Subject: Re: Obsession Wayne, I know that your work is highly regarded by those on this list. Iam new to this obsession, but I can already see what your impact is onthislist and on the craft in general. Please keep up the good work ,andcongrats on the 24th! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu BTW, Oregon Public Broadcasting is doing a program on Idaho craftpeopletonight at 8:30pm. One of the "lost arts" they will feature is bamboo rodbuilding. Anyone on the list familiar with who they will feature? ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: ObsessionDate: Thursday, August 14, 1997 1:48 PM "Obsession - a persistant disturbing preoccupation with an oftenunreasonable idea or feeling" In Mr. Garrison's book there is a short thank you written to his wife.Itthanks her for the years of taking care of upstairs as he, Mr. Garrison,setabout downstairs. The reason I'm reminded of this is that 'Ben' and Ihavejust past the 24 year mark and finally this weekend she will have mealone. Isuspect that it may be the same in several households where the termrodmakeris also used.Ben and I have had our ups and down over the years, just as manyothercouples do. But in it all she has shown extreme patients for the thingsthatI do. And in trying to build our relationship we have read several booksonrelations. In one the author refers to the caves that some of us withdrawto.A cave isn't necessarily a place although my basement area coulddefinatelyqualify, it can be just an absence from communication or preoccupationaswell.Admittedly, for me rodmaking has become an obsession or a cave inourrelationship. It's in realizing this that makes me ask myself the whyquestion. But in trying to find an answer I bump into inner feeling thatarefirst hard to face and secondly hard to confess. First it was the dreamandthen it became the people.I would hope that I'm not the only one that has dreamed of being thenextEverett Garrison. You know - the sort of dream you have as a kid - thekindof thing that you can only share with your best friend - sort of asecret.But dreams take time to chase and occassionally they can becomehauntingasyou start to see them come true. A dreams is a pristene thing it lacks that cloud which is known asreality. For a rodmaker the dream of selling the rod is clouded with thereality of the hours spend in isolation to make the tangible. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Aug 14 19:34:50 1997 Fri, 15 Aug 1997 08:34:40 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Obsession On Thu, 14 Aug 1997 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: "Obsession - a persistant disturbing preoccupation with an oftenunreasonable idea or feeling" In Mr. Garrison's book there is a short thank you written to his wife. Itthanks her for the years of taking care of upstairs as he, Mr. Garrison,setabout downstairs. The reason I'm reminded of this is that 'Ben' and I havejust past the 24 year mark and finally this weekend she will have mealone. Isuspect that it may be the same in several households where the termrodmakeris also used.Ben and I have had our ups and down over the years, just as many othercouples do. But in it all she has shown extreme patients for the thingsthatI do. And in trying to build our relationship we have read several booksonrelations. In one the author refers to the caves that some of us withdrawto.A cave isn't necessarily a place although my basement area coulddefinatelyqualify, it can be just an absence from communication or preoccupationaswell. That's a nice post and a thought provoking one too. Sounds a bit like "Ben" may have her own "cave" to withdraw to and as long as the two are ajoining the chances are good you'll have another 24 good years. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Aug 14 19:49:22 1997 Subject: Re: finishing In a message dated 97-08-14 20:35:21 EDT, you write: would like to start a discussion concerning the relative advantages anddisadvantages of dipping before guides are wrapped versus dipping after guidesare attached. I have been dipping after wrapping guides, and theproblemIencounter is that sanding inbetween coats is much mode involved. Cananyonethink of a disadvantage to dipping then wrapping? or are there distinctadvantages which make the troublesom sanding necessary/worth while? I like putting a finish on a blank before anything goes on other than theferrules. Seems to me the blank is better sealed, especially under thehandle and reel seat where moisture or humidity could enter the bamboo. Sir D. from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu Aug 14 20:38:30 1997 mailfep2-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Obsession Obsessions take many shapes and forms. Such is the stuff of life --Suchis the spice of life. Beautiful passions like cane rod buildingcontribute to the beauty of our time spent in this world. Wayne, you notonly have an obsession with building cane rods -- But, perhaps yousuffer from an even a nobler muse. And, that is simply helping others tobuild rods of their own. For that, many of us thank for your beautifulobsession. Congradulations. Your friend, Joe Loverti, Miamisburg,Ohio. from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Aug 14 20:54:55 1997 (205.236.248.106) Subject: plastic 'collector' rods I have recently returned from a trip to London and I took theopportunity to visit Farlows of Pall Mall, an up market sporting store (the British equivalent of Orvis)They stocked the usual goodies that seem a necessity until you get themhome! What really stopped me dead was that a Sage graphite rod wasabout 1/3 more expensive than a cane rod. The bamboo rods were very well finished with top quality hardware,( Idid not like the chrome snake guides). The varnishing was immaculate.I have not really recovered from this and have not touched a piece ofbamboo since. I am back, back ordered and have been avoiding answeringthe phone. I once visited a graphite rodmaking plant and they are quick and easy tomake. The graphite cloth is inexpensive, available and is of aguaranteed quality. Bamboo is hard to get and the quality is, well ..... About 3 years agoI picked up some bamboo culms from the old Payne rod shop and these hadbeen picked over for years. Basically these were the dreggs yet theywere better than what seems to be available now. Perhaps it is time for rodmakers to demand some quality control and nothave to purchase on an as is basis. The importer knows that cuts,scrapes and scorch marks are not acceptable for rodmaking and shouldensure that all the cane he supplies is seviceable. Every companynowdays are very quality minded and standards are set for quality andthe persuit of quality, why should we be short changed.Terry Ackland from CharlesIrvine@compuserve.com Thu Aug 14 20:58:34 1997 Subject: finishing I have been experimenting with the same thing, seems that if you dip before wrapping that you don't have to worry about residual dust butwrapping after dipping is a little more difficult but the final productseems worth the effort. I have a tank full of paint thinner and I runeach section through that tank after careful wiping, but I am stilllooking for the perfect solution and am not sure that such a thing exists? Chuck from CharlesIrvine@compuserve.com Thu Aug 14 21:19:08 1997 Subject: RE: Tuxedo Cane 20 per bundle depends on size 17---23 buc ks I belie Chuck from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Aug 14 21:32:58 1997 Subject: Re: finishing Mark, I varnish my blanks prior to installing the guides. I wet sandbetweeneach coat with 1200 grit wet/dry paper. The last coat is left as it comesout.I put on three coats of varnish,total. After I wrap the guides in place Icoat the silk wrapswith five coats of marine spar varnish,being carfull not to get any varnishon theblank. I think this looks alot neater than dipping after the guides are on.DaveLeClairTheFly & Rod Room from pjmraz@ibm.net Thu Aug 14 21:45:55 1997 02:45:22 GMT Subject: Unsubscribe unsubscribe from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Aug 14 23:44:08 1997 Subject: Re: Herters Bamboo Rod Building Book At 10:28 06/08/97 PDT,Mike wrote:Rare Herter's Bamboo Rod Building book for sale! Higest offer over $90 takes this mint condition gem.I was the owner of Hackle & Tackle fly fishing shop of Saugerties NY and had a complete collection of Herters books.Many have dismissed Herter due to his anti- semtic personality. However, the information in this publication out weighs most others on the subject. If you wish to talk with me about this book you may call 914-339-1795 e.s.t. between 7:30 &9:30 PM thanks Mike Kanarek ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Mike, You say that you have other Herter's books for sale - I am looking for 2 ofthem: - How to Live on $ 10.00/day- How to Live with a Bitch Not that I could ever live on 10.00/day and the gal I married 29 years agois still hanging around even though I fish too much - work too hard - playwith flies and cane. I would just like to see what old George had to say -remember when each of the books were about $ 2.00.Sorry for the late posting but the drive went bonkers a couple of weeksago. regards, Don Andersen from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Aug 14 23:44:11 1997 Subject: Re: very strange At 20:05 12/08/97 -0400, Terry wrote:Hi all,Looks as though I am signed up again for rodmakers, I do not know howthis happened.I hardly qualify as a rodmaker at present, I have not touched a piece ofbamboo for 3 months, except for training the beans up some of the scrapcane in the garden.I do enjoy the occasional late night scroll through the archives inJerry Fosters great site. I find that a half hour read of the archivesis most benificial to a bout of insomnia.Terry Ackland Nice to see you back Terry - now just don't dump and run - at least let usget a clean shot this time. Look forward to some post of yours or perhapsmine where there could be 2 sides [ and of course - you get to pick theside and for my benefit, I hope its the slippery one]. take care, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Aug 14 23:44:15 1997 Subject: Re: finishing At 14:18 14/08/97 -0400, Mark wrote:I would like to start a discussion concerning the relative advantages anddisadvantages of dipping before guides are wrapped versus dipping afterguidesare attached. I have been dipping after wrapping guides, and the problemIencounter is that sanding inbetween coats is much mode involved. Cananyonethink of a disadvantage to dipping then wrapping? or are there distinctadvantages which make the troublesom sanding necessary/worth while? -- Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu Mark, Done both ways - the guide before wrapping is a larger pain in the butt toget those glass smooth finishes. I temporarily mount the guides withorthdontal elastics to make sure the guides/flats are straight - removeandthen dip. However, the guide feet are not all straight and parallel withthe guide opening. If you temp. mount, make sure that the same guide youstraighten the blank for goes back to the same position after dipping. Don from cmax@jymis.com Fri Aug 15 00:12:16 1997 Subject: Test Testing logonChris Maxfield from freedmar@pilot.msu.edu Fri Aug 15 06:42:24 1997 Subject: Re: finishing "LECLAIR123@aol.com" at Aug 14, 97 10:32:24 pm Dave, are you at all concerned that wet sanding will introduce a significantamountof moisture? I've been dry sanding and cursing how quickly the 1000 gritgetsloaded, but I couldn't yet bring myself to get wet. Mark, I varnish my blanks prior to installing the guides. I wet sandbetweeneach coat with 1200 grit wet/dry paper. The last coat is left as it comesout.I put on three coats of varnish,total. After I wrap the guides in placeIcoat the silk wrapswith five coats of marine spar varnish,being carfull not to get anyvarnishon theblank. I think this looks alot neater than dipping after the guides are on.DaveLeClairTheFly & Rod Room --Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan Universityfreedmar@pilot.msu.edu from bootstrap@earthlink.net Fri Aug 15 07:40:39 1997 Subject: Re: For Randall Hicks Hey, guys- Sorry to use the newsgroup for this, but I can't get throughto Randall Hicks' email address. Don't flame me- I know better, I justdon't have an alternative. Apologies. Frank in Colorado. Hi Randall. Thanks for your interest. Form is 60 inches long, push- pullscrews every five inches, as per Garrison. Slope is .0014 per inch, as perGarrison. Extrra adjustment positions at 32.5, 37.5, 42.5, 1nd 47.5 for abutt swell if you choose. Smallest adjustment at the tip side small end isis 25 thousandths (smaller than Garrison's). Machining dimensions are + or- .003 on the chamfer. And, of course, it is sold satisfaction guaranteed,if you're not happy with it, send it back -for any reason- for a fullrefund. They're made in a commercial mnachine shop on a computer-controlledmill called a MAZAK. All machining is done in one pass on the mill.It uses ex wrenches, supplied. No tuning, filing, or other work isrequired unless you want a fancier look. It will make as good a rod as youcan just as it is supplied, but it is not pretty, it has the mill finish onthe exterior, not ground or polished. The roughing form is made the sameway, 3/4 ich cold rolled steel, with the same push-pull adjustments, butisnot as dimensionally accurate-made by students at the local vocationalschool . It's 22 to 24 inches long, they vary. Frank,Call if you want to talk about it. (303)745- 1353. Thanks again for yourinterest. .A. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster 18599 E. Louisiana Ave..AAA. Colorado Boostrap, Inc. Aurora, CO 80017.A"AAA. bootstrap@earthlink.net.A' `AAA. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.AAaaaaAAA. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626.A' `AAA. "It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,aAAa aAAAAa it's tha things we know that ain't so!" -Artemus Ward from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Aug 15 07:53:24 1997 (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA20154 for ; Subject: Re: Obsession WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: "Obsession - a persistant disturbing preoccupation with an oftenunreasonable idea or feeling" In Mr. Garrison's book there is a short thank you written to his wife. Itthanks her for the years of taking care of upstairs as he, Mr. Garrison,setabout downstairs. The reason I'm reminded of this is that 'Ben' and I havejust past the 24 year mark and finally this weekend she will have mealone. Isuspect that it may be the same in several households where the termrodmakeris also used. --Wayne (and "Ben'), Congradulations on 24 years. In this day of what seems to be a"disposable" society, it is heartwarming to hear of a relationship suchas yours. Let's see......I only have 15+ years to make it to thatplateau. -- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Todd Talsma + Sligh Furniture Company + Phone:616- 394-0560 ++Sr. Systems Analyst + 1201 Industrial Avenue + Fax: 616- 392-9495 +++++++++++++++++++++++ Holland MI 49423 ++++++++++++++++++++++ from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Aug 15 12:00:05 1997 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA29246 for Subject: REC Components Does anyone have the current e-mail address for REC Components?Apparently the one I have in my "address book" has been changed. George Barnesgwbarnes@gwi.net from ishikawa@stout.atd.ucar.edu Fri Aug 15 12:20:59 1997 Central Post Office 03/11/93) NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) 04/19/90) Subject: Re: Obsession Wayne, Congratulations on 24th. Best wishes to you and yours!!!.I remember a poem "The way not taken" or something like.I'm sure you are on the right way!!!. BTW. I got your book and video (didn't watch yet). The bookis great!!! Sergio H. IshikawaNCAR-UCARBoulder-Co from ishikawa@stout.atd.ucar.edu Fri Aug 15 12:40:33 1997 Central Post Office 03/11/93) NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) 04/19/90) Subject: NEW MEMBER Hi All,I'm new on this list and not a rod maker yet. I already have Kreider's,Wayne's (video also) and Garrison's book had been shipped (hurry UPS,please!) but I didn't touch any bamboo cane yet. I tryed to buy fromDemarest but they told me they don't have any good cane to sell me. Andsome time ago I read that some people have had problems with Tuxedoshipping. Can Anybody recommend a good source of canes?BTW. I'm from Brazil and I'm going to stay in Boulder-Co until the end ofOctober. I'm just learning Fly-fishing and beginning to read about rodmaking, but I'm sure I'd addicted to them.Advices are wellcome!.Regards, Sergio H. IshikawaNCAR-UCARBoulder-Co from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.saic.com Fri Aug 15 13:16:57 1997 11:16:22 -0700 Subject: Re: C Components George: http://www.reccomponents.com There's not much there yet but they say that a real catalog will beavailablein early September. --Rich------------------------------ Does anyone have the current e-mail address for REC Components?Apparently the one I have in my "address book" has been changed. George Barnesgwbarnes@gwi.net ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 10:05:22-0700 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA29246 for Subject: REC Components from bootstrap@earthlink.net Fri Aug 15 14:03:28 1997 Hi, Sergio. This is Frank in aurora. I have a couple of sticks of goodcane that have been in my basement for about 5 years. I'll sell them toyou at $10.00 each if you want them. I'll even meet you for breakfast atthe Buff in Boulder and deliver them if you wish. (I'll buy thebreakfast.) They're first quality, well dried, and from Demarest. Welcometo the group. Frank in Aurora .A. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster 18599 E. Louisiana Ave..AAA. Colorado Boostrap, Inc. Aurora, CO 80017.A"AAA. bootstrap@earthlink.net.A' `AAA. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.AAaaaaAAA. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626.A' `AAA. "It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,aAAa aAAAAa it's tha things we know that ain't so!" -Artemus Ward from ishikawa@stout.atd.ucar.edu Fri Aug 15 14:27:47 1997 Central Post Office 03/11/93) NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) 04/19/90) Hi Frank, Thanks for your offer! Sure I want your good cane, but also wantto visit (or disturb?) your shop? Were you making planing forms? you arefamous man! You can call off the list to talk about the details.As I told to Jon Zimny, regarding his help about nickel silver source, "I will really enjoy been adicted to rodmaking and to "friends-making""I'll prefer to use the term "Passion" than "Obsession" coined by Wayne(At least for while!!!).I'm looking forward to hearing from you,Sergio H. IshikawaNCAR-UCARBoulder-CoOffice (303) 497- 8825Home (303) 494-9747 On Fri, 15 Aug 1997, Franz O. Armbruster wrote: Hi, Sergio. This is Frank in aurora. I have a couple of sticks of goodcane that have been in my basement for about 5 years. I'll sell them toyou at $10.00 each if you want them. I'll even meet you for breakfast atthe Buff in Boulder and deliver them if you wish. (I'll buy thebreakfast.) They're first quality, well dried, and from Demarest. Welcometo the group. Frank in Aurora .A. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster 18599 E. Louisiana Ave..AAA. Colorado Boostrap, Inc. Aurora, CO 80017.A"AAA. bootstrap@earthlink.net.A' `AAA. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.AAaaaaAAA. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626.A' `AAA. "It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,aAAa aAAAAa it's tha things we know that ain't so!" -Artemus Ward from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Aug 15 19:22:10 1997 Subject: Re: finishing Mark, when I wet sand after varnishing, I am only taking the shine off ofthevarnishand removing any high spots. If you don't go through the coat of varnishthereis no chance of any moisture getting to the cane. As of yet I haven't hadanyproblem by wet sanding. Also, when you wet sand ,the paper doesn't cloguplikeit does when dry sanding.When your sand paper glogs up,you stand a chanceof damaging the finish by dragging the buildup across yor finish. Just to let you know,I don't dip varnish my rods like most buildersdo,I spraythem with an air brush.To me it is alot easier and they come out just asgood.But,weather you dip or spray I still like the way the rod looks with the guidesput onthe blank after it has been varnished. My customers like it better too. Dave LeClairThe Fly & RodRoom from rec@flyfishers.com Fri Aug 15 19:57:27 1997 mail2.nai.net (8.7.5/8.6.5) with SMTP id UAA01018 for Subject: Re: REC Components George W. Barnes wrote: Does anyone have the current e-mail address for REC Components?Apparently the one I have in my "address book" has been changed. George Barnesgwbarnes@gwi.net Dear George, Good to hear from you. Our email address is rec@flyfishers.com You canalso visit our new website at: www.reccomponents.com Let me know if we can be of assistance. Best regards,REC Components Alan Gnann from EMiller257@aol.com Fri Aug 15 21:17:16 1997 Subject: Re: Obsession Wayne,Congrats on twenty four years. It is an accomplishment for both of you tokeep it working for so long. I also think your dream is one that many of usentertain but you are making it happen in your own fashion with your rods,your classes, and your unselfish contributions to the rest of us. Kudos toyou and the rest of the "Trout Bums." Ed Miller from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Aug 16 12:42:05 1997 Subject: Changing the action of a finished rod. You might recall an experimental taper of minewhere I tried to see if putting the area of higheststress as close to the tip as possible wouldcast a tighter loop. It does cast a very tight loopwithout hardly trying, but you might also recall that I didn't put in a Cattanach Hinge in the handlesection, and it didn't roll cast very well. After a few attempts to sell the rod with notakers, I decided to experiment a bit further.I took off the stripper guide, and sanded ina hinge. With a sanding block, I sanded off.005 of the diameter 18 inches from the frontof the handle. The power fibers are well exposed,and I went completely through a couple, butnot a whole layer. After re-finishing and re- installation of the stripper guide, the rodcasts a bit slower, not much, but the rollcasting is much improved. So I've learned that The Cattanach Hinge or Triple Convex Taper or what ever it's called should be a design element of your tapers,and if you know what you are doing youcan change the action of your finished rods. Sir Darryl from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Aug 17 11:07:08 1997 Subject: Jerry in Wy Jerry, Your mailer is clearing off you email address - let me know what it is. Don Sorry for the BW folks. from jbr842@airmail.net Sun Aug 17 12:07:20 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.181) with smtp for Subject: Cane Rod Storage Hi Guys, The Old Cop from Dallas would like some sage (not the competitor ofWinston) advice on rod storage from the old pros such as Wayne, SirDarryl, Tony, John; messrs Ackland, Biondo, Thramer, Bogart, Burnes,Barns, et al (forgive me if I didn't name you, but your opinion isimportant too). To be more specific, should I store my prized cane rods(all two of them) in their cases standing up or laying horizontally? Ihave heard pros and cons on both methods and am curious what theconsensus of the group is. I know this opens up what could be a longthread, but those of we list members who are less knowledgeable of suchthings could surely benefit. By the way, has anybody talked to BobNunley who left the list a while back? I would like to hear from him. Thanks to all,Jim Bryan from frankc@webspan.net Sun Aug 17 12:21:26 1997 Subject: HELP JUST PURCHASED A SOUTH BEND MODEL 290. 7 1/2 FOOT FOR AN E OR HDHLINE. I'VE TRIED A 4WF, 4/5 TRIANGLE AND A 5WF. THE 4/5 SEEMS TOOCASTBEST. DO THE OLD LINE DESIGNATIONS CORRELATE TO THE NEW? I HAVE REFINISHED SEVERAL ROD BUT THIS IS THE FIRST ONE THAT HAS ALABELTHAT IS PERFECT AND I WOULD LIKE TO RESTORE THIS ROD. CAN SOMEONEOFFERA METHOD OF PROTECTING THE LABEL WHILE I AM REMOVING AS MUCH OFTHE OLDVARNISH AS POSSIBLE. ALSO, CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO MEASURE LINE GUIDES AND RELATETHEM TOTHE CURRENT SIZES. FRANK CARUSO from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sun Aug 17 13:00:58 1997 Subject: RE:HELP RO>JUST PURCHASED A SOUTH BEND MODEL 290. 7 1/2 FOOT FOR AN E ORHDHRO>LINE. I'VE TRIED A 4WF, 4/5 TRIANGLE AND A 5WF. THE 4/5 SEEMS TOOCASTRO>BEST. DO THE OLD LINE DESIGNATIONS CORRELATE TO THE NEW? RO>I HAVE REFINISHED SEVERAL ROD BUT THIS IS THE FIRST ONE THAT HASA LABELRO>THAT IS PERFECT AND I WOULD LIKE TO RESTORE THIS ROD. CANSOMEONE OFFERRO>A METHOD OF PROTECTING THE LABEL WHILE I AM REMOVING AS MUCH OFTHE OLDRO>VARNISH AS POSSIBLE. RO>ALSO, CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO MEASURE LINE GUIDES ANDRELATE THEM TORO>THE CURRENT SIZES. RO>FRANK CARUSO Frank, contact me directly - sorry my reader cuts off email addressesposted from a list-serv. Don Burnsflyfisher@bbs.cmix.com from gwr@seanet.com Sun Aug 17 14:00:36 1997 Subject: Re: HELP - protecting labels Frank, The first thing not to do is wrap masking tape over the label andthen proceed to strip the rod. I tried that on the first label I needed topreserve for a restoration and damn if two-thirds of the label didn't liftoff when I removed the tape even though it was "protected" by a layer ofvarnish. What I've done since then is to wrap single-sided (regular) maskingtape around the rod with the sticky side out. Do two tight turns this way,then double the tape back on itself and complete a turn so that all theadhesive is covered over. Next, overlapping on either side of the tape ringyou've just made, safely away from any labels or inscriptions you need topreserve, use the masking tape in its normal fashion to tightly seal theedges of the first tape ring.Now you can strip off the the bulk of the varnish. When the blankis bare, but for the preserved label and a thin ring of varnish, I use anacetone dampened (not wet) Q-tip to remove the old varnish up to theedgesof the label, changing Q- tips frequently. If you work slowly you canbevery precise with this method. Now, carefully test just the tiniest bit ofthe edge of the label, if it comes away, stop and try a milder solvent. Ifyou still detect the least bit of degredation of the label, then just leavethe old varnish over the label. When you re-finish the rod there will be adarker patch of varnish over the label, but at least you'll have preservedthe label. If you are working with an inscription, I've found that the oldcarbon based inks (black, obviously) lift immediately in the presence ofmost solvents. Again, I leave the old varnish in place, but just over theinscription. If anybody does know of a solvent that doesn't lift oldinscriptions, please let me know. That's my method come upon by trial and error. Some one else mayhave a better solution. Good luck, Russ Gooding At 01:06 PM 8/17/97 -0400, you wrote:JUST PURCHASED A SOUTH BEND MODEL 290. 7 1/2 FOOT FOR AN E OR HDHLINE. I'VE TRIED A 4WF, 4/5 TRIANGLE AND A 5WF. THE 4/5 SEEMS TOOCASTBEST. DO THE OLD LINE DESIGNATIONS CORRELATE TO THE NEW? I HAVE REFINISHED SEVERAL ROD BUT THIS IS THE FIRST ONE THAT HAS ALABELTHAT IS PERFECT AND I WOULD LIKE TO RESTORE THIS ROD. CAN SOMEONEOFFERA METHOD OF PROTECTING THE LABEL WHILE I AM REMOVING AS MUCH OFTHE OLDVARNISH AS POSSIBLE. ALSO, CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO MEASURE LINE GUIDES AND RELATETHEM TOTHE CURRENT SIZES. FRANK CARUSO from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sun Aug 17 14:25:11 1997 Subject: Re: Cane Rod Storage Jim, I don't think that one should store any rod in the case. It should behung in a cool, dry place--in the darkJohn Zimny from harry37@epix.net Sun Aug 17 17:43:29 1997 SAA12968 Subject: Re: HELP - protecting labels Russ Gooding wrote: Frank, The first thing not to do is wrap masking tape over the label andthen proceed to strip the rod. I tried that on the first label I needed topreserve for a restoration and damn if two-thirds of the label didn't liftoff when I removed the tape even though it was "protected" by a layer ofvarnish.What I've done since then is to wrap single-sided (regular) maskingtape around the rod with the sticky side out. Do two tight turns thisway,then double the tape back on itself and complete a turn so that all theadhesive is covered over. Next, overlapping on either side of the taperingyou've just made, safely away from any labels or inscriptions you needtopreserve, use the masking tape in its normal fashion to tightly seal theedges of the first tape ring.Now you can strip off the the bulk of the varnish. When the blankis bare, but for the preserved label and a thin ring of varnish, I use anacetone dampened (not wet) Q-tip to remove the old varnish up to theedgesof the label, changing Q- tips frequently. If you work slowly you can bevery precise with this method. Now, carefully test just the tiniest bitofthe edge of the label, if it comes away, stop and try a milder solvent. Ifyou still detect the least bit of degredation of the label, then just leavethe old varnish over the label. When you re-finish the rod there will be adarker patch of varnish over the label, but at least you'll have preservedthe label. If you are working with an inscription, I've found that the oldcarbon based inks (black, obviously) lift immediately in the presence ofmost solvents. Again, I leave the old varnish in place, but just over theinscription. If anybody does know of a solvent that doesn't lift oldinscriptions, please let me know. That's my method come upon by trial and error. Some one else mayhave a better solution. Good luck, Russ Gooding At 01:06 PM 8/17/97 -0400, you wrote:JUST PURCHASED A SOUTH BEND MODEL 290. 7 1/2 FOOT FOR AN E ORHDHLINE. I'VE TRIED A 4WF, 4/5 TRIANGLE AND A 5WF. THE 4/5 SEEMS TOOCASTBEST. DO THE OLD LINE DESIGNATIONS CORRELATE TO THE NEW? I HAVE REFINISHED SEVERAL ROD BUT THIS IS THE FIRST ONE THAT HASA LABELTHAT IS PERFECT AND I WOULD LIKE TO RESTORE THIS ROD. CANSOMEONE OFFERA METHOD OF PROTECTING THE LABEL WHILE I AM REMOVING AS MUCH OFTHE OLDVARNISH AS POSSIBLE. ALSO, CAN SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO MEASURE LINE GUIDES AND RELATETHEM TOTHE CURRENT SIZES. FRANK CARUSO Frank, I've used a variation of the process outlined above with one additionalstep. Rather than wrapping the first layer sticky side out, I wrap adouble layer of teflon pipe thread tape over the areas I want toprotect, and then I wrap masking tape over all of the teflon tape, beingcareful to leave enough of an overlap to seal the whole area. When Iwrap the second layer of teflon, I simply reverse direction. The realbeauty of this method is that the unwrapping step is simple. You canalso use this method with out the masking tape if you just want toprotect an area, and it doesn't leave any adhesive residue. Hope this helpsGreg Kuntz from beth@tco.net Sun Aug 17 18:06:33 1997 Subject: Garrison Planing Form I have a good friend who appraises and restores bamboo flyrods. Heasked me to see if I could find him a used Garrison Planing Form. Doesanyone have any idea how I could find this. Thanks for the help. Beth from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Aug 17 19:46:30 1997 Mon, 18 Aug 1997 08:45:55 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Cane Rod Storage On Sun, 17 Aug 1997, Jim Bryan wrote: Hi Guys, The Old Cop from Dallas would like some sage (not the competitor ofWinston) advice on rod storage from the old pros such as Wayne, SirDarryl, Tony, John; messrs Ackland, Biondo, Thramer, Bogart, Burnes,Barns, et al (forgive me if I didn't name you, but your opinion isimportant too). To be more specific, should I store my prized cane rods(all two of them) in their cases standing up or laying horizontally? Ihave heard pros and cons on both methods and am curious what theconsensus of the group is. I know this opens up what could be a longthread, but those of we list members who are less knowledgeable ofsuchthings could surely benefit. By the way, has anybody talked to BobNunley who left the list a while back? I would like to hear from him. Thanks to all,Jim Bryan I think laying them down is best. I've seen a few old rods with sets that were always layed down when stored but these were hevely fishedrods and may have taken a set for some other reason. Certainly all the older rods that have been leaned at any angle seem to be set. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Aug 17 20:51:25 1997 Subject: Re: REC Components George, REC E-Mail address is --rec@flyfishers.com There Webpage address is-WWW.reccomponents.com Hope this helps you out. David LeClair from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Aug 18 04:41:28 1997 KAA30807 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 10:48:36+0100 Subject: Re: Changing the action of a finished rod. You might recall an experimental taper of minewhere I tried to see if putting the area of higheststress as close to the tip as possible wouldcast a tighter loop. It does cast a very tight loopwithout hardly trying, but you might also recall that I didn't put in a Cattanach Hinge in the handlesection, and it didn't roll cast very well. After a few attempts to sell the rod with notakers, I decided to experiment a bit further.I took off the stripper guide, and sanded ina hinge. With a sanding block, I sanded off.005 of the diameter 18 inches from the frontof the handle. The power fibers are well exposed,and I went completely through a couple, butnot a whole layer. After re-finishing and re- installation of the stripper guide, the rodcasts a bit slower, not much, but the rollcasting is much improved. So I've learned that The Cattanach Hinge or Triple Convex Taper or what ever it's called should be a design element of your tapers,and if you know what you are doing youcan change the action of your finished rods. Sir Darryl Sir Darryl Hayashida's posting reminds me of a little rod made byMilwardshere in England in the 1950's and 1960's. They called it the FlyVersabecause the butt section tapered from ferrule to handle. I mention thisonlybecause although the action felt 'easy' it was able to throw a lovely tightloop, but was also quite a capable roll casting too too. I don't think they made it in short lengths (short in Britain in those daysbeing anything under 9'). It was quite heavy too. Milwards were wonderful rod makers with a very advanced R and Ddepartment.They are not particularly collected here in Britain - thank God: I buy all Ican find. Of course, the RM may well have debated the matter of reverse taper atlength, in the past. John Cooper (England) from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Aug 18 09:01:10 1997 Subject: Re: Changing the action of a finished rod. Darryl - As heretical as it sounds, you might have gotten a similar resultbyincreasing the weight of the ferrule. If you used a truncated, or otherlightweight ferrule originally, and then went to a standard, full lengthsuper Z, it might just have given you enough more bend in the butt toimproveroll casting. Try taping a bit of lead to the ferrule and see what happens.-- Tom from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Aug 18 09:29:52 1997 Mon, 18 Aug 1997 22:29:42 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Changing the action of a finished rod. On Mon, 18 Aug 1997, John Cooper wrote: You might recall an experimental taper of minewhere I tried to see if putting the area of higheststress as close to the tip as possible wouldcast a tighter loop. It does cast a very tight loopwithout hardly trying, but you might also recall that I didn't put in a Cattanach Hinge in the handlesection, and it didn't roll cast very well. After a few attempts to sell the rod with notakers, I decided to experiment a bit further.I took off the stripper guide, and sanded ina hinge. With a sanding block, I sanded off.005 of the diameter 18 inches from the frontof the handle. The power fibers are well exposed,and I went completely through a couple, butnot a whole layer. After re-finishing and re- installation of the stripper guide, the rodcasts a bit slower, not much, but the rollcasting is much improved. So I've learned that The Cattanach Hinge or Triple Convex Taper or what ever it's called should be a design element of your tapers,and if you know what you are doing youcan change the action of your finished rods. Sir Darryl Sir Darryl Hayashida's posting reminds me of a little rod made byMilwardshere in England in the 1950's and 1960's. They called it the FlyVersabecause the butt section tapered from ferrule to handle. I mention thisonlybecause although the action felt 'easy' it was able to throw a lovelytightloop, but was also quite a capable roll casting too too. I don't think they made it in short lengths (short in Britain in those daysbeing anything under 9'). It was quite heavy too. Milwards were wonderful rod makers with a very advanced R and Ddepartment.They are not particularly collected here in Britain - thank God: I buy all Ican find. Of course, the RM may well have debated the matter of reverse taper atlength, in the past. John Cooper (England) Not being in exactly the same thread but simmilar, all the above reminds me of somebody on this list (sorry I can't remember the person) whomentioned he has sections of rods of different tapers which he uses to showpotential clients various actions. I believe the results were often good. Another very interesting point is that which Tom Smithwick hassuggested and I've done which is to make a spiral tip to go with a conventional butt.Just to keep the interest high, I made this nodeless which didn't add to the difficulty though I did use epoxy on the scarfs.Spiral rods are worth a go. It's hard to say what causes the extra stifness but I think it's the shortening (increase of density?) of the fibers.Tom, you were right. I need to perfect the locks used for putting in the twist as it's tricky to get the guide placement right because the twist dosn't always (I'll be honest, mostly dosn't) allow the guide to go where you'd like it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from devino@inlink.com Mon Aug 18 11:00:32 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id LAA04326 for Subject: Bags and Tubes Where do you guys get your rodbags? I assume most makers sew their ownbutI could be wrong. I have a couple of old rods that need bags. My wife saysour sewing machine is hopelessly broken, otherwise I'd have tried to sewthem up myself. For those of you who make yours, is there a materialpreference? I have a 9' 3/2 and an 8.5' 3/1 that need bags. Is there an offthe shelf supplier? And I'm looking for another source of 'semi-custom' aluminum rod tubes.What company has them and do they cut them to length? Thanks! -=Mark=-Devino's Websitehttp://www.inlink.com/~devino from heaver@bigfoot.com Mon Aug 18 11:35:15 1997 Subject: Need Help: Refinishing Cork Handles.... A customer does NOT want me to replace the cork handles on his flyrod and instead wants me to "refinish" them. I made him understand that refinishing them would require somesanding, with the resulting loss of some cork. The blank is in goodshape, the thread somewhat faded on all guides - frayed on one. He estimates the rod to be 20+ years old, so I understand his desireto want to maintain the rod in as a original state as possible, butrepairing the cork has me stumped. A portion of the butt grip ispitted and eroded to a depth of 3/16 or so. The rest of the cork isok. My first instinct is to use commercially available cork filler(adhesive mixed with cork dust). My question to all of you is: Isthere a more "original or traditional" repair technique to restore thecork? Any tips on glues/adhesives, cork dust, etc will be greatlyappreciated. Lewis from Lou.Martin@mci.com Mon Aug 18 13:00:46 1997 Subject: Leonard Duracane for Sale Hello, Reluctantly, I am offering my Duracane for sale. I may considerreasonableoffers. This is an 8' 4wt Leonard Duracane, finished by Tom Maxwell from blanks I bought back in 1992. It is a 2 pc., 2-tip, pregnated rod withtungsten guidesand all the right Leonard fittings (ferrules, striper, cap and ringseat, cork andwinding checks, rod tube). Small torpedo grip. Rod is straight.Perfect midgerod. Fished 6 or 7 times. $700 Regards, Lou MartinMonument, CO(719)535-1943, 481-9551 home from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Aug 18 13:02:04 1997 Subject: RE:Need Help: Refinishing Cork Handles.... RO>A customer does NOT want me to replace the cork handles on his flyRO>rod and instead wants me to "refinish" them. RO>I made him understand that refinishing them would require someRO>sanding, with the resulting loss of some cork. The blank is in goodRO>shape, the thread somewhat faded on all guides - frayed on one. RO>He estimates the rod to be 20+ years old, so I understand his desireRO>to want to maintain the rod in as a original state as possible, butRO>repairing the cork has me stumped. A portion of the butt grip isRO>pitted and eroded to a depth of 3/16 or so. The rest of the cork isRO>ok. RO>My first instinct is to use commercially available cork fillerRO>(adhesive mixed with cork dust). My question to all of you is: IsRO>there a more "original or traditional" repair technique to restore theRO>cork? Any tips on glues/adhesives, cork dust, etc will be greatlyRO>appreciated. RO>Lewis Lewis, You can try steaming the cork - sometimes the cork will "pop" back outif it's dented. You can also rub a little baby oil (unscented kind) onto your hands andthen rub the grip. This will also restore the cork so that any sandingdoesn't chew it up as badly. You can also cut out a bad part of a ring (or a whole ring) and glue ina new piece. It you cut a piece out on a "seam" in the ring - you canhide the cut with filler. Then it will look like a normal filled-indefect in the ring. You can stain the new cork to match (almost) with a used tea bag. I've used the cork dust and glue setup from theemens catalog - worksokay but you can tell the cork is filled. At some point it's just betterto replace the cork - nothing will make crappy cork look brand new. Good luck. Don Burns from d-deloach1@ti.com Mon Aug 18 13:29:41 1997 (8.8.5) with ESMTP id NAA20324 for ; Mon, dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id BPSDBABK; Mon,18 Aug 1997 13:28:25 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: cork sources Hi all: I was wondering where everyone is getting their cork. I just finished myfirstrod and used the rings from Cabela's--they weren't too bad but like mostcanemakers, I'd like to get my hands on some better ones for use on futurerods. Iwould prefer a source where I could buy in bulk (100+ rings) to savemoney. mewith my questions and problems on my first rod. Started it March 27,1997;finished on July 20, 1997. For those of you who don't remember It's a 6'6"2/1Cattanach 3-weight. First fish was July 28th, on a little secret creekwhere Ilearned to fish some twenty years ago in Hinsdale County, Colorado. Littlebitty brookie, but a special moment of "coming full circle" -- you all knowwhatI mean. Later that week I went on to a Colorado "Grand Slam" with thelittlerod, catching many rainbows, browns, and cutthroats. The memorable weekculminated in a beatiful day float of the Rio Grande, where the rod landedmeseveral 16-17" browns. What great fun it has been, and what great fun itwillbe building many more rods for many years to come. Thanks again everyone! Don DeLoach from GAM@mssmtpgate.housing.umich.edu Mon Aug 18 13:48:45 1997 runningman.rs.itd.umich.edu (8.8.5/2.3) mssmtpgate.housing.umich.eduwith Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 18 Aug 1997 14:49:21 -0500 Subject: Need Help: Refinishing Cork Handles.... -Reply I've mixed the cork dust with clear fingernail polish for filler. You have towork quick but it sands better than using glue. I also use "lava" handsoap to clean the cork. The soap part cleans and the "lave" helps get outthe grit and smooth the finish.hope this helps, Gary from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Aug 18 13:56:50 1997 Subject: Re: Changing the action of a finished rod. In a message dated 97-08-18 05:42:44 EDT, you write: Of course, the RM may well have debated the matter of reverse taper atlength, in the past. I don't recall a discussion of a reverse taper, unless it's part ofthe McCastle- Connell Kick taper we batted about a couple ofyears ago. It would seem that a reverse taper would be a lot like a PaulYoung Para rod, only exaggerated. I can see how it would roll cast very well, but the regular casting would take somegetting used to. While we are on the subject of tapers, I noticed that the rodthat I sanded the "hinge" into feels a bit heavier now. I believethe reason for this because the overall action is a bit slower.It seems to me that slower rods feel heavier. It must be theleverage of the rod against your hand, or perhaps the lengthof time you are pushing against the rod when changing fromfore to back cast and vice versa that translates into a feelingof heaviness. Sir D. from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Aug 18 13:57:35 1997 Subject: Re: Cane Rod Storage In a message dated 97-08-18 08:53:12 EDT, you write: I don't think that one should store any rod in the case. It should behung in a cool, dry place--in the darkJohn Zimny This is such good advice it should be etched in stone somewhere! Sir Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Aug 18 13:57:55 1997 Subject: Re: Changing the action of a finished rod. In a message dated 97-08-18 10:02:42 EDT, you write: Darryl - As heretical as it sounds, you might have gotten a similar result byincreasing the weight of the ferrule. If you used a truncated, or otherlightweight ferrule originally, and then went to a standard, full lengthsuper Z, it might just have given you enough more bend in the butt to improveroll casting. Try taping a bit of lead to the ferrule and see whathappens.-- Tom Well, the deed has already been done, but if I ever run across thesame situation, I certainly will try the lead trick first. It should be easyto do. I could just use some lead wire from my fly tying supplies, andwrap a few turns around the ferrule. Sir Darryl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Aug 18 14:17:09 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: cork sources try Anglers Workshop 360-225-9445. They have various grades and alsowill sell in bulk quantities. I was there last month and picked up a bagof 50 top grade while I was on my way to California (shudder). Also JohnBradford at 817-292-3324 had some at one time, don't know if he stilldoes. Patrick ----------From: Don DeLoach[SMTP:d-deloach1@ti.com]Sent: Monday, August 18, 1997 1:28 PM Subject: cork sources Hi all: I was wondering where everyone is getting their cork. I just finishedmy firstrod and used the rings from Cabela's--they weren't too bad but likemost canemakers, I'd like to get my hands on some better ones for use on futurerods. Iwould prefer a source where I could buy in bulk (100+ rings) to savemoney. helped mewith my questions and problems on my first rod. Started it March 27,1997;finished on July 20, 1997. For those of you who don't remember It's a6'6" 2/1Cattanach 3-weight. First fish was July 28th, on a little secret creekwhere Ilearned to fish some twenty years ago in Hinsdale County, Colorado.Littlebitty brookie, but a special moment of "coming full circle" -- you allknow whatI mean. Later that week I went on to a Colorado "Grand Slam" with thelittlerod, catching many rainbows, browns, and cutthroats. The memorableweekculminated in a beatiful day float of the Rio Grande, where the rodlanded meseveral 16-17" browns. What great fun it has been, and what great funit willbe building many more rods for many years to come. Thanks again everyone! Don DeLoach from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Aug 18 15:14:45 1997 Subject: RE:Bags and Tubes RO>Where do you guys get your rodbags? I assume most makers sew theirown butRO>I could be wrong. I have a couple of old rods that need bags. My wifesaysRO>our sewing machine is hopelessly broken, otherwise I'd have tried tosewRO>them up myself. For those of you who make yours, is there a materialRO>preference? I have a 9' 3/2 and an 8.5' 3/1 that need bags. Is there anoffRO>the shelf supplier? RO>And I'm looking for another source of 'semi-custom' aluminum rodtubes.RO>What company has them and do they cut them to length? Thanks! RO> -=Mark=-RO> Devino's WebsiteRO> http://www.inlink.com/~devino Mark, I found that Orvis supports the cane rod mkt. quite well - I bought somevery nice replacement bags for a couple of cane rods for about $15.00each. Just tell them rod length, # of sections and that it's for a 1 or2 tip rod. They also have AL tubes - but marked "Orvis", I think. Try Angler's Workshop or Dale Clemens for generic AL tubes - do tellthem it's for a "x" length 3 piece, 1 or 2 tip cane rod to get thecorrect dia. tube. Cost is about $25 each. Angler's - (360) 225-9445Clemens - (610) 395-5119 LAter, Don B. PS - Remember to never store a wet rod in the tube. Let it air dry for aday or 2. from gwr@seanet.com Mon Aug 18 15:57:09 1997 Subject: Re: cork sources Don, You might try Shoff Tackle at (800) 735-7197. I use them when I canand can't say enough about their service. They have several grades ofcork,the best of which should certainly be better than Cabella's. Their"Flor" grade rings are $.90 each or $86.00 for 100 rings. I use scarequotes around flor because I've yet to receive a batch of truly flor cork from any of the several suppliers I use. Still, Shoff's is good stuff andthe service is first rate. Angler's Workshop is another reputable dealer with solid service.You can reach them at (360) 225-8641. Their best rings are labeled "XtraSuper Fine" and run $1.30 per ring or $124.95 per 100. Russ At 01:28 PM 8/18/97 -0700, you wrote:Hi all: I was wondering where everyone is getting their cork. I just finished myfirstrod and used the rings from Cabela's--they weren't too bad but like mostcanemakers, I'd like to get my hands on some better ones for use on futurerods. Iwould prefer a source where I could buy in bulk (100+ rings) to savemoney. mewith my questions and problems on my first rod. Started it March 27,1997;finished on July 20, 1997. For those of you who don't remember It's a 6'6"2/1Cattanach 3-weight. First fish was July 28th, on a little secret creekwhere Ilearned to fish some twenty years ago in Hinsdale County, Colorado.Littlebitty brookie, but a special moment of "coming full circle" -- you all knowwhatI mean. Later that week I went on to a Colorado "Grand Slam" with thelittlerod, catching many rainbows, browns, and cutthroats. The memorableweekculminated in a beatiful day float of the Rio Grande, where the rod landedmeseveral 16-17" browns. What great fun it has been, and what great fun itwillbe building many more rods for many years to come. Thanks again everyone! Don DeLoach from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Aug 18 16:09:42 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bags and Tubes I got a tube from a local fly fishing shop here in Seattle and they cutit to length. It's aluminum and if I remember correctly it was about$20. Patrick ----------From: flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com[SMTP:flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com]Sent: Monday, August 18, 1997 12:15 PM Subject: RE:Bags and Tubes RO>Where do you guys get your rodbags? I assume most makers sew theirown butRO>I could be wrong. I have a couple of old rods that need bags. Mywife saysRO>our sewing machine is hopelessly broken, otherwise I'd have triedto sewRO>them up myself. For those of you who make yours, is there amaterialRO>preference? I have a 9' 3/2 and an 8.5' 3/1 that need bags. Isthere an offRO>the shelf supplier? RO>And I'm looking for another source of 'semi-custom' aluminum rodtubes.RO>What company has them and do they cut them to length? Thanks! RO> -=Mark=-RO> Devino's WebsiteRO> http://www.inlink.com/~devino Mark, I found that Orvis supports the cane rod mkt. quite well - I boughtsomevery nice replacement bags for a couple of cane rods for about $15.00each. Just tell them rod length, # of sections and that it's for a 1or2 tip rod. They also have AL tubes - but marked "Orvis", I think. Try Angler's Workshop or Dale Clemens for generic AL tubes - do tellthem it's for a "x" length 3 piece, 1 or 2 tip cane rod to get thecorrect dia. tube. Cost is about $25 each. Angler's - (360) 225-9445Clemens - (610) 395-5119 LAter, Don B. PS - Remember to never store a wet rod in the tube. Let it air dry foraday or 2. from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Aug 18 17:56:36 1997 Subject: One Year On RodMakers Tomorrow (8/19/97) marks my first year of reading the RodMakers list. This all started with cousin Butch. Last year he sent me an old fly rod thathe had come into possession of on the death of his father. The rod hadbelongto Barbara's first husband. Knowing that I fly fished he sent it to me. Atfirst I was almost afraid to touch it, but I screwed up my courage and tookit to the backyard, along with by various fly reels loaded with 3 wt to 9wtline, and started casting. Boy, it was slow and seems to cast best with a 5weight line. Before the casting exercise, I purchased a copy of MichaelSinclair's book -- Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook. This book contains awealth of information on production bamboo fly rods. from this data I wastentatively able to identify the rod as a Montague from the 1920's, but Istill did not know what it was worth. Stream side guide repairs and looseferrules indicated that it needed work to be put in fishable condition. Prior to all this I had done a search on the internet and came up with theflyfish@ mail list, to which I subscribed (Feb. 26, 1996). About the timetherod arrived from Butch a lister, who had obtained a bamboo rod thatneededrestoration, asked the list for help in identifying someone who restoredrods. During this discussion Michael Sinclair's E-mail address was posted.InAugust 1996 I contacted Michael, described the rod and its condition.Michael business. I sent him the rod for his appraisal of the necessary work tomakeit fishable. His response was a surprise. He advised me that the rod wasnotworth the cost of restoration. "...the rod does not justify the expense ofrepair. It was made in the era just before WWI (c. 1914) by the MontaqueRodCompany using the "pool-cue" design they acquired when Montague boughttheThomas H. Chubb Rod Company of Post Mills Vermont in 1898-99. This is aneatold rod for display -- AS IS. This type of rod has almost NO collectiblevalue -- too common, and has a limp, wet fly action." rod. If this one would not do, then how about another. I contacted Michaeland asked if he had any fishable rods. He had one that he was restoringthathe thought I might like. We agreed that I would take it when he completedtherestoration work. However, in May of 1997, Michael notified me that therodhad turned into a "wall hanger" during the work he found the rod to beun-sound and would not be fishable. Michael had taken in trade two other rods and he offered them to me as areplacement for the failed restoration: #1 Goodwin Granger " Colorado Special" 8 1/2'. 3/1, for DT5. Made in about1928. Honey-colored cane, red wraps, fancy mid-butt wrap of red and gold.Coke bottle grip, NS, SB marked "Made by / Goodwin Granger Company /Denver".There are no other markings - that's correct for this model. Rod has beenrestored. The only flaw in the rod is a few hook nicks at bottom of corkgrip- a common Granger Condition (because no hookkeeper). Comes withunoriginalbag, no tube. (did not come with either originally.) #2 Wright & McGill "Stream & Lake" 8 1/2', 3/1, for DT5. This one has theusual mild reversed half-Wells grip and patented internal UL, NS reel seat.Caramel colored cane. Wraps are red. Reel seat marked in three lines:"Made anddate on this one. Made in about 1950. Rod has had a few guides replacedandre-wrapped, and a light new coat of varnish. It is ready to go fishing.Comeswith an unoriginal bag and no tube. I could not make up my mind and bought both. Fished both on the East fork of the Arkansas River this summer (1997).Caughtfish with both but preferred the Wright and McGill. It has a little fasteraction and casts better. Besides I like the dark cane better than the honeycolored cane. While all this was going on I found the rodmakers mailing list andsubscribedon August 19, 1996. This is a group of hobby and professional bamboo rodmakers. This was a big mistake! The bug continues to chew into my flesh.Itwas not long before I began to think about building rods of my own. So Ilurked on the list and gathered much useful information and opinions.Duringthe winter I purchased Wayne Cattanach's book and video and the GarrisonandCarmichael book. I've read each book and watched the video several timesandmade list of the required items. During the spring I built 4 graphite rods With this as prolog, this weekend (8/15/97) I took the first steps tomakingthe dream a reality. I started to assemble the necessary equipment. Thefirstthing I did was purchase a plane -- a Stanley 9 1/2. I'm now on my way! I would like to thank all the active list members for the helpful posts overthe past year. I look forward to many more interesting discussions. As Iadvance in my quest for my own bamboo rod, I anticipate taking a moreactiverole and posting to the list with many questions. Thank you one and all. Mark R. ColeLeadville, COHouston, TX from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Aug 18 20:52:38 1997 Subject: Re: Bags and Tubes Mark, Try contacting Clear Creek Co. in New Hampton,Iowa. at 1-800-894- 0483.Ask for Bob.Tell him I told you to call. They will make the bags to yourlength andwill cut the tubes to length,too. There tubes and bags are very good. Tubescomein different colors,etc. Ask for there catalog and price sheet. Dave LeClair from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Aug 18 22:35:17 1997 Subject: 3 weeks wasn't enough Hi, y'all- Just got back from 3 weeks camping in wyoming, montana and colorado(with the usual mid- westerner's pennance of Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, andNebraska. Thank the gods for Cabela's. You need a fix right aboutthen!)Had a lousy time, as you might expect. Hit The Park hard, and severalstreams who have requested anonymity. Most whipped my ass quitethoroughly, thank you. Generally without breaking a sweat. A couplewere kinder than most and I caught some pretty fish. Had a griz and hercubs camped accross the river from us. Only bothered one fisherman by"woofing" at him. Appearantly you CAN walk on water if given the rightmotivation.Going to order my own planing form this week and return the one Iborrowed. Does anyone have a spare binder they want to sell? I'd liketo buy one better than I could make. . . . I've used up enough space here. I'll tell more of my trip later. Oh, did I mention I hit the salmon-fly hatch? Brian from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Aug 19 12:06:06 1997 Subject: Cork rings needed I'm restoring an old rod and need a few large dia. cross-cut cork rings(~1 3/16" or larger) to correctly repair the cork grip - does anyone onehave any of these? "pinholes" are on the outer dia. I'm willing purchase them outright orswap for a few old-style stripper guides. Thanks, Don Burns from kanarekorigami@hotmail.com Tue Aug 19 12:57:41 1997 Tue, 19 Aug 1997 10:57:03 PDT Subject: Herters/Cork Santiago!! Sorry I lost your e-mail address. Herters has much information; from picking clums to finishing rods. Excellent addition to any library on bamboo. Anyone looking for hand picked cork. Real AAA. I have a select ammount that I hand picked for my personal rods when I owned Hackle & Tackle of Saugerties. Serious inquires can call 914-339-1795 between 7-9 PM Am also the manufatures rep. for Vennerie reel seats. Having trouble getting prices from printer. But e-mail me for flyer that I shall send soon as posible. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from hypex@community.net Tue Aug 19 14:20:46 1997 odin.community.net with SMTP id MAA20699 for Subject: Re: Herters/Cork Mike Kanarek wrote: Santiago!! Sorry I lost your e-mail address. Herters has muchinformation; from picking clums to finishing rods. Excellent addition toany library on bamboo. Anyone looking for hand picked cork. Real AAA. I have a select ammountthat I hand picked for my personal rods when I owned Hackle & Tackle ofSaugerties. Serious inquires can call 914-339-1795 between 7-9 PM Am also the manufatures rep. for Vennerie reel seats. Having troublegetting prices from printer. But e-mail me for flyer that I shall sendsoon as posible. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Please send me a flyer on Vennerie reel seats. Grizzly Rod Co.Henry Olhava2425 Rigdon St.Napa, CA 94558 hanko@i-cafe.net from hypex@community.net Tue Aug 19 14:28:40 1997 odin.community.net with SMTP id MAA22316 for Subject: Re: Herters/Cork Mike Kanarek wrote: Santiago!! Sorry I lost your e-mail address. Herters has muchinformation; from picking clums to finishing rods. Excellent addition toany library on bamboo. Anyone looking for hand picked cork. Real AAA. I have a select ammountthat I hand picked for my personal rods when I owned Hackle & Tackle ofSaugerties. Serious inquires can call 914-339-1795 between 7-9 PM Am also the manufatures rep. for Vennerie reel seats. Having troublegetting prices from printer. But e-mail me for flyer that I shall sendsoon as posible. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com Please send me your flyer and prices onVennerie reel seats. Grizzly Rod Co.Henry Olhava2425 Rigdon St.Napa, CA 94558 hanko@thevine.i-cafe.net from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Tue Aug 19 14:38:25 1997 ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Herters/Cork Mike Kanarek wrote: Santiago!! Sorry I lost your e-mail address. Herters has muchinformation; from picking clums to finishing rods. Excellent addition toany library on bamboo. Anyone looking for hand picked cork. Real AAA. I have a select ammountthat I hand picked for my personal rods when I owned Hackle ? Tackle ofSaugerties. Serious inquires can call 914-339-1795 between 7-9 PM Am also the manufatures rep. for Vennerie reel seats. Having troublegetting prices from printer. But e-mail me for flyer that I shall sendsoon as posible. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com -- Would also like a flyer...FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011- 9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Aug 19 18:10:34 1997 TAA05320 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 1997 19:04:13 Subject: Penta Scarfing Blocks To the list, 8/18/97Need help. Have just acquired a beat up old Uslan with a short tip. Wouldappreciate any suggestions as to how to make a scarf (inline) splice, orhowto make scarfing blocks (probably need two?) for a penta. Thanx Bill from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Aug 20 08:43:16 1997 Subject: Re: Penta Scarfing Blocks Bill - My suggestion would be to keep the block very simple. Don't try tomess with the angles. Use the typical 2 sided scarf block with one flatface,and cut an angled rabbet on the face of the other. In this way, the pentasection would sit on it's flat base on the flat bottom of the rabbet. Theside points of the section would simply be grabbed by the sides of theblock.I would consider using softwood for the block to avoid damaging thepoints. Come to think of it, maybe you could get away with using your stripsplicingblock? -- Tom from steviemo@iquest.net Wed Aug 20 12:23:27 1997 0000 (206.53.236.204) Subject: Old cork source Hi All, Don't know if I missed the responses or not but i have an old GrangerChampion and the grip is a bit chewed up at the bottom end. Does anyonehave or know of a source for the rough (crosscut?) cork? Sure doappreciate it. Also, has anyone ever heard of Parker Custom of Roswell GA? That isreallyall the info I have about them. Don't think it is Jon Parker. Any/all infoabout them will be greatly appreciated. Many Thanks, Steve Steve StillabowerIndianapolis, Insteviemo@iquest.net from kanarekorigami@hotmail.com Wed Aug 20 15:11:18 1997 Wed, 20 Aug 1997 13:10:44 PDT Subject: cork No great buy here just great cork 100/rings $1.50 all AAA+500 AAA+ $1.25 for it all. add s&hMike Kanarek 914-339-1795 bet.7-9 EST ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from bjcoch@arkansas.net Wed Aug 20 15:16:57 1997 mail.anc.net (8.7.6/SCO5) with SMTP id UAA04329 for; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 20:16:52 GMT Subject: Re: Japanese Planes jaw12@health.state.ny.us wrote: Does anybody have experience or comments on planing cane withJapanese planes.My experience with these is with musical instrument making and thatthey arecapable of some very fine work. Plus, with a wooden sole, I could easilysanda groove in the center of the sole... * John A. Whitaker* NYSDOH AIDS Institute: 372 Corning Tower* E-Mail: jaw12@health.state.ny.us* (518) 486-1383Since you have experience with japanese planes in luthrie you are awareof every thing you need to know to use them in rod building. They willhold an edge much longer than a HOCK blade due to the method ofmanufacture. Get to planing and good luck. Bryant Cochran from brian_thoman@rhco.com Wed Aug 20 17:16:05 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id SAA00602 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Ferrule Failures I've read in the Listserve archives about some people having ferrulesfail when using Devcon 2-ton epoxy so I thought I'd tell of myexperiences. So far, I've built four rods. Two 2-pieces, one 3-pieceand one 1-piece. Every ferrule was glued with Devcon epoxy and everyrod with a ferrule has had at least one failure. Each was cleanedbefore gluing with a degreaser followed by alcohol. I'd say that's apretty high failure rate. Any similar experiences? Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Aug 20 20:14:13 1997 UAA06922 for ; Wed, 20 Aug 1997 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id UAA20509 for ; Subject: On-line Stress Curve Analysis of hooey, (and it may be!) I've made some improvements to my on-line (web) version of Wayne's Hexrod program. The primary improvement is that you can start with a rod and make changes to the "fundamentals" such as length, number of ferrules, line weight, etc., then design a new rod with thesame stress curve as the original. So you can start with a 7ft 2pc 4wt that you like and go click-click-click and have an8ft 3pc 6wt with the same stress curve. Alternatively, you can take a rod and see what the stress curvewould look like with a different line weight, lighter ferrules, etc. Some other new features: You can let the program calculate the ferrule sizes for you; you can smooth the stress curve with amoving average filter and recompute dimensions; and you can save yourwork between sessions. Also, better documentation for the program.And ferrule locations are shown on the stress and dimension graphs. More changes are planned. You can find this all, at no charge and worth every penny, athttp://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Aug 20 20:34:12 1997 Thu, 21 Aug 1997 09:33:54 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Japanese Planes On Wed, 20 Aug 1997, bryant j coochran wrote: jaw12@health.state.ny.us wrote: Does anybody have experience or comments on planing cane withJapanese planes.My experience with these is with musical instrument making and thatthey arecapable of some very fine work. Plus, with a wooden sole, I couldeasily sanda groove in the center of the sole... * John A. Whitaker* NYSDOH AIDS Institute: 372 Corning Tower* E-Mail: jaw12@health.state.ny.us* (518) 486-1383Since you have experience with japanese planes in luthrie you are awareof every thing you need to know to use them in rod building. They willhold an edge much longer than a HOCK blade due to the method ofmanufacture. Get to planing and good luck. Bryant Cochran Just to add to this, you can also get Jananeese style (laminated) irons I haven't used one on metal forms as mine are wood, but I think you may have to be very careful not to damage the plane iron. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Aug 20 20:51:04 1997 0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Thoman, Brian A. wrote: I've read in the Listserve archives about some people having ferrulesfail when using Devcon 2-ton epoxy so I thought I'd tell of myexperiences. So far, I've built four rods. Two 2-pieces, one 3-piece and one 1-piece. Every ferrule was glued with Devcon epoxy and everyrod with a ferrule has had at least one failure. Each was cleanedbefore gluing with a degreaser followed by alcohol. I'd say that's apretty high failure rate. Any similar experiences? Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA I quit after the second failure! Ralph Moon from devino@inlink.com Wed Aug 20 21:26:03 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id VAA25630 for Subject: Re: On-line Stress Curve Analysis At 08:14 PM 8/20/97 -0500, Frank Stetzer said something like: of hooey, (and it may be!) I've made some improvements to my on-line (web) version of Wayne's Hexrod program. Awesome Frank. I know that had to be difficult to make the changes. I forone will DEFINITELY use it. I have an old "Jim Dandy (Shakespeare) that Ijust got my hands on. It desperately needs to be run through with varyingline weights. Thanks! -=Mark=-http://www.inlink.com/~devino from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Wed Aug 20 21:27:29 1997 mailfep3-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: On-line Stress Curve Analysis type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Frank Stetzer wrote: of hooey, (and it may be!) I've made some improvements to my on-line(web) version of Wayne's Hexrod program. The primary improvement is that you can start with a rod andmake changes to the "fundamentals" such as length, number offerrules, line weight, etc., then design a new rod with thesame stress curve as the original. So you can start with a7ft 2pc 4wt that you like and go click-click-click and have an8ft 3pc 6wt with the same stress curve. Alternatively, you can take a rod and see what the stress curvewould look like with a different line weight, lighter ferrules, etc. Some other new features: You can let the program calculate theferrule sizes for you; you can smooth the stress curve with amoving average filter and recompute dimensions; and you can save yourwork between sessions. Also, better documentation for the program.And ferrule locations are shown on the stress and dimension graphs. More changes are planned. You can find this all, at no charge and worth every penny, athttp://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html...................................................................... Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank, thanks for the nice link! I'm sure it will get a lot of use.Joe Loverti from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Aug 21 05:59:20 1997 (205.236.248.132) Subject: Re: Cork rings needed flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: I'm restoring an old rod and need a few large dia. cross-cut corkrings(~1 3/16" or larger) to correctly repair the cork grip - does anyoneonehave any of these? "pinholes" are on the outer dia. I'm willing purchase them outright or swap for a few old-style stripper guides. Thanks, Don Burns Don,try a winemaking supply store, they use corks with the grain horizontal,they should stock larger diameters than wine bottle size.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Aug 21 05:59:47 1997 (205.236.248.132) Subject: Re: Bags and Tubes flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>Where do you guys get your rodbags? I assume most makers sew theirown butRO>I could be wrong. I have a couple of old rods that need bags. Mywife saysRO>our sewing machine is hopelessly broken, otherwise I'd have triedto sewRO>them up myself. For those of you who make yours, is there amaterialRO>preference? I have a 9' 3/2 and an 8.5' 3/1 that need bags. Isthere an offRO>the shelf supplier? RO>And I'm looking for another source of 'semi-custom' aluminum rodtubes.RO>What company has them and do they cut them to length? Thanks! RO> -=Mark=-RO> Devino's WebsiteRO> http://www.inlink.com/~devino Mark, I found that Orvis supports the cane rod mkt. quite well - I boughtsomevery nice replacement bags for a couple of cane rods for about $15.00each. Just tell them rod length, # of sections and that it's for a 1or2 tip rod. They also have AL tubes - but marked "Orvis", I think. Try Angler's Workshop or Dale Clemens for generic AL tubes - do tellthem it's for a "x" length 3 piece, 1 or 2 tip cane rod to get thecorrect dia. tube. Cost is about $25 each. Angler's - (360) 225-9445Clemens - (610) 395-5119 LAter, Don B. PS - Remember to never store a wet rod in the tube. Let it air dry foraday or 2. Hi,Generally sewing machines only require cleaning and oiling and thebobbin tension checked. I suggest you check these out and than sign upon the dressmakers list! My wife is not interested either in helping me, she does pickup afterme though.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Aug 21 06:09:00 1997 (205.236.248.132) Subject: Re: Cane Rod Storage Jim Bryan wrote: Hi Guys, The Old Cop from Dallas would like some sage (not the competitor ofWinston) advice on rod storage from the old pros such as Wayne, SirDarryl, Tony, John; messrs Ackland, Biondo, Thramer, Bogart, Burnes,Barns, et al (forgive me if I didn't name you, but your opinion isimportant too). To be more specific, should I store my prized canerods(all two of them) in their cases standing up or laying horizontally? I have heard pros and cons on both methods and am curious what theconsensus of the group is. I know this opens up what could be a longthread, but those of we list members who are less knowledgeable ofsuchthings could surely benefit. By the way, has anybody talked to BobNunley who left the list a while back? I would like to hear from him. Thanks to all,Jim Bryan Hi, from what I can remember of a trip to the American Museum ofFlyfishing is that the rods are stored in the horizontal position intheir tubes in racks. This takes up less room if you have a lot of rods. A collector that I know also stores his valuable rods in the samemanner and they all looked in good shape.Terry from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Aug 21 08:51:44 1997 Subject: Re: Cork rings needed RO>flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>> I'm restoring an old rod and need a few large dia. cross-cut corkRO>> ringsRO>> (~1 3/16" or larger) to correctly repair the cork grip - does anyoneRO>> oneRO>> have any of these?RO>>RO>> By cross-cut, I mean not like modern cork rings - but cut so thatRO>> "pinholes" are on the outer dia. I'm willing purchase them outright orRO>>RO>> swap for a few old-style stripper guides.RO>>RO>> Thanks,RO>>RO>> Don Burns RO> Don,RO>try a winemaking supply store, they use corks with the grainhorizontal,RO>they should stock larger diameters than wine bottle size.RO>Terry Thanks for the idea - a tryed looking for bottle supply companies in thethe local phone company yellow pages - nothing there. I guess I need togo down to the sesspool (Los Angeles) and look in their yellow pages. Don B. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Aug 21 08:52:10 1997 Subject: Dumb gifts Some time back there was a post about dumb gifts one receives fromfriends and family when they know you fish or are a rodbuilder. Well, I've got one now. My mother & father just sent me an 18" bright green wood "fish" - it'sdesigned to screw to a wall and then become a rod holder for 5 rods. Youslip each rod into a groove in the side of the "thing" and let it hang from a snake guide (I guess). A great piece of modern American folk-art - not! Now if they had only purchased the Standley plane the guy used to makeit - I'd be happy. Don B. from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Aug 21 09:02:13 1997 Subject: FS - Agateen tiptips for spinnning rods I acquired a few more than a dozen red agateen titptips for spinningrods (I think) - the rings are offset from the rod by about 1/2". Theyrange in size from ~ 6/64ths to 8.5/64 ths. I'll sell them for my costplus any shipping charges. I won't post the cost here but not expensive - ~1/5 the cost of anAngler's agateen stripper guide for those who just must know. I'm still working on getting the large amount (~200) of chrome smallring stripper guides from this fellow - stay tuned regarding these. If interested in the agateen guides, please post me directly. Don Burns Flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com from jparker@union-tel.com Thu Aug 21 09:24:38 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-12165) with SMTP id AAA783 0600 Subject: Big Move Greetings from Wyoming, Just a short message to inform all my good friends of the list that I havepermanently moved from Ballston Lake, NY to Saratoga, Wyoming. Juststarting to set up my new shop. My new address is: Parker RodsPO Box 1379Saratoga, WY 82331307-326-5058jparker@union- tel.com Last weektwo listmembers, Jerry Johnson (Laramie, WY) and Jim Filpot(Longmont,CO) stopped by and welcomed me to the west. Best regards, Jon PS Steve Stillabower - you are right -no connection with the GA ParkerCustoms. from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Aug 21 09:29:54 1997 CDT Subject: List Problems??? Have you folks that recently sent a message into the list (Don, Frank, Mark, others) get an error message back about duplicatemessages? I've gotten an error notification back on each ofyour messages. Before I go harass the listproc folks, I thoughtI would check with the list first. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Aug 21 09:37:53 1997 Subject: RE:Big Move RO>Greetings from Wyoming, RO>Just a short message to inform all my good friends of the list that IhaveRO>permanently moved from Ballston Lake, NY to Saratoga, Wyoming. JustRO>starting to set up my new shop. My new address is: RO> Parker RodsRO> PO Box 1379RO> Saratoga, WY 82331RO> 307-326-5058RO> jparker@union-tel.com RO>Last weektwo listmembers, Jerry Johnson (Laramie, WY) and JimFilpotRO>(Longmont,CO) stopped by and welcomed me to the west. RO>Best regards, RO>Jon RO>PS Steve Stillabower - you are right -no connection with the GAParker Cust Jon, You just can't seem to leave "Saratoga" behind, I see. Was the big steel "ball" still in Ballston Spa when you left - I did 6mts inside that sucker back in the 70's. The green glow from my buttstill keeps the fish away - that's what I tell people. My wife wants to move to WY when we retire - californicate the place, soto speak. Good luck, Don Burns from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Aug 21 09:38:55 1997 Subject: RE:List Problems??? RO>Have you folks that recently sent a message into the list (Don,RO>Frank, Mark, others) get an error message back about duplicateRO>messages? I've gotten an error notification back on each ofRO>your messages. Before I go harass the listproc folks, I thoughtRO>I would check with the list first. RO>Mike BiondoRO>RODMAKERS Listguy Nope - no problems here. Don B. from s.wang@cummins.com Thu Aug 21 10:13:34 1997 10:12:38 -0500 smap (3.2) (5.65v4.0/1.1.8.2/04Mar96-1128AM) 8.6/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: List Problems??? flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>Have you folks that recently sent a message into the list (Don,RO>Frank, Mark, others) get an error message back about duplicateRO>messages? I've gotten an error notification back on each ofRO>your messages. Before I go harass the listproc folks, I thoughtRO>I would check with the list first. RO>Mike BiondoRO>RODMAKERS Listguy A while back, I had received duplicate messages without any errormessages. It corrected itself somehow. -- Simon T. C. Wang s.wang@cummins.comSoftware Engineer Cummins Engine Company, Inc. http://www.cummins.com4080 West Jonathan Moore PikeCMC-7003, WestHill PlazaColumbus, IN 47201 Tel: (812)377-7632Fax: (812)377-1110 from JCZIMNY@dol.net Thu Aug 21 10:23:23 1997 Subject: Re: Big Move Jon Parker wrote: Greetings from Wyoming, Just a short message to inform all my good friends of the list that I havepermanently moved from Ballston Lake, NY to Saratoga, Wyoming. Juststarting to set up my new shop. My new address is: Parker RodsPO Box 1379Saratoga, WY 82331307-326-5058jparker@union- tel.com Last weektwo listmembers, Jerry Johnson (Laramie, WY) and Jim Filpot(Longmont,CO) stopped by and welcomed me to the west. Best regards, Jon PS Steve Stillabower - you are right -no connection with the GA ParkerCustoms. Jon,Congradulations!See you at Somerset??John from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Aug 21 10:33:37 1997 IAA04450; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 08:33:03 -0700 Subject: Re: On-line Stress Curve Analysis Frank, thanks a bunch for doing the web version of Hexrod! I for one use itquite a bit. My computers are a Mac and a Sparcstation 20, so the PCversionof Hexrod is kinda difficult for me to use, so your program gets quite a bitof use. Thanks again,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Aug 20 18:18:40 1997 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Frank Stetzer Subject: On-line Stress Curve AnalysisMIME-Version: 1.0 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 1467 of hooey, (and it may be!) I've made some improvements to my on-line (web) version of Wayne's Hexrod program. The primary improvement is that you can start with a rod and make changes to the "fundamentals" such as length, number of ferrules, line weight, etc., then design a new rod with thesame stress curve as the original. So you can start with a 7ft 2pc 4wt that you like and go click-click-click and have an8ft 3pc 6wt with the same stress curve. Alternatively, you can take a rod and see what the stress curvewould look like with a different line weight, lighter ferrules, etc. Some other new features: You can let the program calculate the ferrule sizes for you; you can smooth the stress curve with amoving average filter and recompute dimensions; and you can save yourwork between sessions. Also, better documentation for the program.And ferrule locations are shown on the stress and dimension graphs. More changes are planned. You can find this all, at no charge and worth every penny, athttp://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@csd.uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Aug 21 11:16:42 1997 with ESMTP id LAA04361 for ; Thu, 21 Aug dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id RIQPAXAQ; Thu,21 Aug 1997 11:15:24 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: Jon Parker, other WY list members Guys: I'll be in Jelm, WY (southwest of Laramie) over labor day weekend and waswondering if any of you guys would be interested in getting together anddoingsome fishing. I'll be staying at my aunt's cabin on the Big Laramie, but I'ddefinitely be interested in getting over to the N Platte at Saratoga atleastone day. Sorry for the theft of bandwidth, please respond to me off the list. Don D. from gwr@seanet.com Thu Aug 21 13:23:17 1997 Subject: Thread Source?/ Rod ID Hello all, I'm restoring an old boat rod that is in rough shape. Among otherthings it needs a complete re-wrap. The primary thread color is a white &black jasper/variegated silk. If anybody has a spool or knows a source fora spool I'm very interested in buying one or perhaps swapping somecomponents that I have lying about the shop. I'm also at a loss regarding identification. It is one piece rodwith a detachable handle. The rod is 5'6" long, very stout, with a 6.25"section just above the ferrule that has been painted with black enamel. Onthe guide flat of the enamel has be painted the word (model name, mostlikely) "Saltaire" in gold script. There are five double-footed guides withmetal (carbide/carboloy) rings plus a similar tip top. The detachablehandle is 22" long and features a chrome plated brass reel seat, a 13"hardwood grip (looks to be walnut stained oak), and a single slottedgimbalbutt. The hardwood grip has two 1.375" sections featuring "half a knurl" -the grooves run only in one direction, i.e., they are not cross-hatched. Any help on either account would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Russ from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Thu Aug 21 14:09:26 1997 Subject: RE:Thread Source?/ Rod ID RO>Hello all, RO> I'm restoring an old boat rod that is in rough shape. Among otherRO>things it needs a complete re-wrap. The primary thread color is awhite &RO>black jasper/variegated silk. If anybody has a spool or knows a sourceforRO>a spool I'm very interested in buying one or perhaps swapping someRO>components that I have lying about the shop. RO> I'm also at a loss regarding identification. It is one piece rodRO>with a detachable handle. The rod is 5'6" long, very stout, with a 6.25"RO>section just above the ferrule that has been painted with black enamel. OnRO>the guide flat of the enamel has be painted the word (model name,mostRO>likely) "Saltaire" in gold script. There are five double-footed guideswithRO>metal (carbide/carboloy) rings plus a similar tip top. The detachableRO>handle is 22" long and features a chrome plated brass reel seat, a 13"RO>hardwood grip (looks to be walnut stained oak), and a single slottedgimbalRO>butt. The hardwood grip has two 1.375" sections featuring "half aknurl" -RO>the grooves run only in one direction, i.e., they are not cross-hatched. RO> Any help on either account would be greatly appreciated! RO> Thanks, RO> Russ Russ, Try Belvoirdale - they had some blk/white jasper thread. Since it's aboat rod, I'd go with the large dia. stuff (Size 50). URL:http://www.netreach.net/company/belvoirdale/ Can't help you with brand. Don B. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Aug 21 14:18:52 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Cork rings needed try the liberty malt supply co at email: liberty@mdv-beer.com ----------From: flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com[SMTP:flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com]Sent: Thursday, August 21, 1997 5:51 AM Subject: Re: Cork rings needed RO>flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>> I'm restoring an old rod and need a few large dia. cross-cut corkRO>> ringsRO>> (~1 3/16" or larger) to correctly repair the cork grip - doesanyoneRO>> oneRO>> have any of these?RO>>RO>> By cross-cut, I mean not like modern cork rings - but cut so thatRO>> "pinholes" are on the outer dia. I'm willing purchase themoutright orRO>>RO>> swap for a few old- style stripper guides.RO>>RO>> Thanks,RO>>RO>> Don Burns RO> Don,RO>try a winemaking supply store, they use corks with the grainhorizontal,RO>they should stock larger diameters than wine bottle size.RO>Terry Thanks for the idea - a tryed looking for bottle supply companies inthethe local phone company yellow pages - nothing there. I guess I needtogo down to the sesspool (Los Angeles) and look in their yellow pages. Don B. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Aug 21 17:16:55 1997 SAA21798 for ; Thu, 21 Aug 1997 18:21:26-0400 Subject: Re: On-line Stress Curve Analysis It is very well done and have some nice functional features theother versions do not have. Job well done Frank. Regards Chris from jbr842@airmail.net Thu Aug 21 17:48:43 1997 mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.181) with smtp for Subject: Re: Cork rings needed flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>> I'm restoring an old rod and need a few large dia. cross-cut corkRO>> ringsRO>> (~1 3/16" or larger) to correctly repair the cork grip - does anyoneRO>> oneRO>> have any of these?RO>>RO>> By cross-cut, I mean not like modern cork rings - but cut so thatRO>> "pinholes" are on the outer dia. I'm willing purchase them outrightorRO>>RO>> swap for a few old-style stripper guides.RO>>RO>> Thanks,RO>>RO>> Don Burns RO> Don,RO>try a winemaking supply store, they use corks with the grainhorizontal,RO>they should stock larger diameters than wine bottle size.RO>Terry Thanks for the idea - a tryed looking for bottle supply companies in thethe local phone company yellow pages - nothing there. I guess I need togo down to the sesspool (Los Angeles) and look in their yellow pages. Don B. Don, Try this site and maybe you won't have to risk life and limb going toLA. I've found it useful and maybe you and others on the list willalso...p.s. this is not a commercial.... http://guide.netscape.com/samplers/bigyellow_pops.html Cordially, from gwr@seanet.com Thu Aug 21 19:39:11 1997 Subject: RE:Thread Source? Try Belvoirdale - they had some blk/white jasper thread. Since it's aboat rod, I'd go with the large dia. stuff (Size 50). URL:http://www.netreach.net/company/belvoirdale/ Can't help you with brand. Don B. Don, Thanks, Belvoirdale worked out nicely. Grahame Maisey had what Ineeded and then some. Russ from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Aug 21 21:44:18 1997 (205.236.248.230) Subject: Re: Cane Rod Storage Terence Ackland wrote: Jim Bryan wrote: Hi Guys, The Old Cop from Dallas would like some sage (not the competitor ofWinston) advice on rod storage from the old pros such as Wayne, SirDarryl, Tony, John; messrs Ackland, Biondo, Thramer, Bogart, Burnes, Barns, et al (forgive me if I didn't name you, but your opinion isimportant too). To be more specific, should I store my prized canerods(all two of them) in their cases standing up or laying horizontally?I have heard pros and cons on both methods and am curious what theconsensus of the group is. I know this opens up what could be a long thread, but those of we list members who are less knowledgeable ofsuchthings could surely benefit. By the way, has anybody talked to BobNunley who left the list a while back? I would like to hear fromhim. Thanks to all,Jim Bryan Hi, from what I can remember of a trip to the American Museum ofFlyfishing is that the rods are stored in the horizontal position intheir tubes in racks. This takes up less room if you have a lot ofrods. A collector that I know also stores his valuable rods in the samemanner and they all looked in good shape.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Aug 21 22:01:52 1997 (205.236.249.156) Subject: Re: Cane Rod Storage Jim Bryan wrote: Hi Guys, The Old Cop from Dallas would like some sage (not the competitor ofWinston) advice on rod storage from the old pros such as Wayne, SirDarryl, Tony, John; messrs Ackland, Biondo, Thramer, Bogart, Burnes,Barns, et al (forgive me if I didn't name you, but your opinion isimportant too). To be more specific, should I store my prized canerods(all two of them) in their cases standing up or laying horizontally? I have heard pros and cons on both methods and am curious what theconsensus of the group is. I know this opens up what could be a longthread, but those of we list members who are less knowledgeable ofsuchthings could surely benefit. By the way, has anybody talked to BobNunley who left the list a while back? I would like to hear from him. Thanks to all,Jim Bryan Jim,the American Museum of FF store their rods,(those that are not ondisplay), horizontal on racks in their bags and tubes. I know of anothercollector that also stores his valuable collection in the same manner.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Aug 21 22:53:33 1997 (205.236.248.207) Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Thoman, Brian A. wrote: I've read in the Listserve archives about some people having ferrulesfail when using Devcon 2-ton epoxy so I thought I'd tell of myexperiences. So far, I've built four rods. Two 2-pieces, one 3-piece and one 1-piece. Every ferrule was glued with Devcon epoxy and everyrod with a ferrule has had at least one failure. Each was cleanedbefore gluing with a degreaser followed by alcohol. I'd say that's apretty high failure rate. Any similar experiences? Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA Brian,I guess I will have a stab at this one, all the interesting questionsget passed over. Without knowing your actual proceedure it sounds to me like a moistureproblem. You could be gluing ferrules to a blank that contains too muchmoisture and as it drys out the blank shrinks and becomes loose in theferrule. If you follow the recomended time temperature for drying the cane fromGarrisons book you will get this problem. I believe there is a printerserror in the book.Basement stored cane is not very dry and 6 minutes in the oven will notdry even the very ends. Adhesives can also contain moisture and have tobe dried out of the cane before fitting ferrules and finnishing This also shows that the finish you have chosen cannot keep humidityin, therefore it will not keep it out. To me the ability to control the moisture fluctuations is the key to arod with an action that does not change and will never need refinishing. I am not plugging myself here, I have actually got tired of buildingrods, they have become rather repetitive. I also understand that it isbad form to go against the book but I honestly believe it is only astarting point and better rods can be made without getting locked in. Terry Ackland from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Aug 21 22:54:19 1997 (205.236.248.207) Subject: Re: Cork rings needed flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>> I'm restoring an old rod and need a few large dia. cross-cut cork RO>> ringsRO>> (~1 3/16" or larger) to correctly repair the cork grip - doesanyoneRO>> oneRO>> have any of these?RO>>RO>> By cross-cut, I mean not like modern cork rings - but cut so that RO>> "pinholes" are on the outer dia. I'm willing purchase themoutright orRO>>RO>> swap for a few old-style stripper guides.RO>>RO>> Thanks,RO>>RO>> Don Burns RO> Don,RO>try a winemaking supply store, they use corks with the grainhorizontal,RO>they should stock larger diameters than wine bottle size.RO>Terry Thanks for the idea - a tryed looking for bottle supply companies inthethe local phone company yellow pages - nothing there. I guess I needtogo down to the sesspool (Los Angeles) and look in their yellow pages. Don B. Don,perhaps more difficult than I thought, I guess there is no need to makeyour own plonk in your area!Terry from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Aug 22 00:24:19 1997 Subject: Re: Cork rings needed RO> Don,RO>perhaps more difficult than I thought, I guess there is no need to makeRO>your own plonk in your area!RO>Terry Terry, It might be because no one know how to read in LA and therefore can'tmake their own plonk - besides we can get an okay (won't say decent) redplonk at the store (4 or 5 liters for under $7). I've got a 6 bottle case of 1994 R. Mondavi Cab. Reserve sitting herethat I'd swap for one of your rods, but then you'd have to come downhere to drink it - darn laws make it a felony to ship wine in most ofthe USA - GOK's what it would take to get it into Quebec. Je ne parlepas! Used to be easy to get Canadian beer when I lived in Buffalo - just zipover to Fort Erie and buy some real Molson (that's 6% - 8% for thosewho don't know), maybe some Schooner if I could get to Halifax. Mosportand St. Jovite for the races and to our cabin just inside Algonquin forsome trout fishing. Now its 3.2 Corona with a lime yuppie beer, the I-5 for the drive-byshootings and Piru Creek for minnow fishing. Thanks, Don from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Aug 22 08:23:40 1997 Fri, 22 Aug 1997 21:23:31 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Cork rings needed On Thu, 21 Aug 1997 flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO> Don,RO>perhaps more difficult than I thought, I guess there is no need tomakeRO>your own plonk in your area!RO>Terry Terry, It might be because no one know how to read in LA and therefore can'tmake their own plonk - besides we can get an okay (won't say decent) redplonk at the store (4 or 5 liters for under $7). I've got a 6 bottle case of 1994 R. Mondavi Cab. Reserve sitting herethat I'd swap for one of your rods, but then you'd have to come downhere to drink it - darn laws make it a felony to ship wine in most ofthe USA - GOK's what it would take to get it into Quebec. Je ne parlepas! Used to be easy to get Canadian beer when I lived in Buffalo - just zipover to Fort Erie and buy some real Molson (that's 6% - 8% for thosewho don't know), maybe some Schooner if I could get to Halifax. Mosportand St. Jovite for the races and to our cabin just inside Algonquin forsome trout fishing. Now its 3.2 Corona with a lime yuppie beer, the I-5 for the drive-byshootings and Piru Creek for minnow fishing. Thanks, Don Boy, have I got it good here! Wine you can drink, beer with flavour, oceans to sail and trout to catch. Maybe I should keep it all quiet ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Aug 22 09:42:37 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Regarding the cleaning of ferrules. Alcohol will not have any effect onflux. If any flux was left in the ferrules after it was soldered, theepoxy will not bond to that surface. A good wash in a moderate base willpreclude this.John Zimny from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Aug 22 09:50:03 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures In a message dated 8/22/97 4:22:32 AM, you wrote: Terry - You could well be right about shrinkage, I have seen it happen. Ioncerestored an old rod that I later found out had been in a garage for years.Thecane shrank so much the ferrule actually became so loose it rattled. I dothink, however, that some glues are just not suited for this work. Theyjustseem to crystallize from the constant flexing. Any shrinkage would onlyadd tothe problem. As to Garrison's heat schedule, it doesn't work in my oven either. I don'tthink it's because of a misprint, however, I think his oven was moreagressivethan mine. I am not an engineer and no expert on heat transfer, but I seemtorecall from basic science that there is a difference between radiant heatandconvective heat. I use a relatively small electric element and the oventakesa while to heat up. Garrison's setup involved direct flame on a steel pipe. Ithink it radiated heat to the cane much faster. Any of the engineers outtherecare to comment? from bc940@freenet.uchsc.EDU Fri Aug 22 10:39:35 1997 JAA14347; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 09:39:29 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Regarding the cleaning of ferrules. Alcohol will not have any effect onflux. If any flux was left in the ferrules after it was soldered, theepoxy will not bond to that surface. A good wash in a moderate base willpreclude this.John Zimny Moderate base? guess you lost me. Could you get more specific on whatyoureccomend to clean the ferules Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado -- from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Aug 22 11:15:42 1997 Subject: Re: Cork rings needed RO>Boy, have I got it good here! Wine you can drink, beer with flavour,RO>oceans to sail and trout to catch. Maybe I should keep it all quiet ;-) RO>Tony RO>/***********************************************************************/RO>Tony YoungRO>http://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlRO>The Australian connectionRO>/***********************************************************************/ Yeah, but could you pull that island of your's a little closer to the"real" world. OBTW, I recently "discovered" that Australian shepherd dogs aren't fromthere - they're from California - go figure. They're a cross-breed ofAus. cattle dogs and German Shepherds. We gave one to the mother-in-lawa few years ago. Don from eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com Fri Aug 22 11:37:22 1997 gateus.meissner-wurst.com via smap (3.2) with SMTP id AAA302 for ;Fri, 22 Aug 1997 11:40:45 -0500 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 000090D6; Fri, 22 Aug 9711:53:02 -0500 Subject: depth gauge I've been lurking and learning on the list for a month or so while attempting to gather tools to begin rodmaking. Here's the first of what may be many questions: Is it possible to purchase a quality depth gauge for less than $180-$210? I've checked on-line tool suppliers as well as thru a local hardware stores... I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to go low-quality. But this tool gathering is getting expensive! Thankseck from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Fri Aug 22 12:02:25 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA289 0400 Subject: Re: depth gauge Subject: depth gauge I've been lurking and learning on the list for a month or so while attempting to gather tools to begin rodmaking. Here's the first of what may be many questions: Is it possible to purchase a quality depth gauge for less than $180-$210? I've checked on-line tool suppliers as well as thru a local hardware stores... I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to go low-quality. But this tool gathering is getting expensive! Thankseck Eric, Try Enco Mfg. 1(800)860-3400 Depth gauge & points #605-4080 $16.99Depth base #610- 5000 $10.99 This set set up is very inexpensive, has served me well and I highly recommend it. JorgeCarcao@myna.comToronto, Canada from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Aug 22 12:05:24 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: depth gauge try MSC industrial Supply Co. they have the worlds biggest toolcatalogue, about 3' thick and I bought a real nice depth gage (not onethat you have to read backwards) for about $50 dollars. 1-800-753-7937they have a web site. I got to it through the Thomas Register-anotherthing you can register with for free at:http://www.thomasregister.com/index.htmlhas almost every business in the United States in it. Patrick ----------From:eric.koehler@meissner- wurst.com[SMTP:eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com]Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 9:52 AM Subject: depth gauge I've been lurking and learning on the list for a month or sowhile attempting to gather tools to begin rodmaking. Here's the first of what may be many questions: Is it possibleto purchase a quality depth gauge for less than $180-$210? I'vechecked on-line tool suppliers as well as thru a local hardware stores... I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to go low-quality.But this tool gathering is getting expensive! Thankseck from rfairfie@cisco.com Fri Aug 22 12:11:19 1997 KAA14320; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 10:10:46 -0700 Subject: Re: depth gauge Eric, I use a dial indicator mounted in a block of wood. I spent about $50 Rutland Tool and Supply catalog. Thanks,Roger from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Aug 22 09:51:28 1997Date: Fri, 22 Aug 1997 11:52:25 -0500 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: eric.koehler@meissner- wurst.com (eric.koehler) Subject: depth gaugeMime-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitContent-Description: cc:Mail note partX- Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 517 I've been lurking and learning on the list for a month or so while attempting to gather tools to begin rodmaking. Here's the first of what may be many questions: Is it possible to purchase a quality depth gauge for less than $180-$210? I'vechecked on-line tool suppliers as well as thru a local hardware stores... I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to go low-quality. But this tool gathering is getting expensive! Thankseck from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri Aug 22 12:12:58 1997 with ESMTP id MAA14490 for ; Fri, 22 Aug dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id EPRMAAAI; Fri,22 Aug 1997 12:12:00 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: re: depth gauge Eric, yes, you can get a generic dial indicator (1/1000") and either make orbuy a base for it to yield a perfectly good depth gage for around 30- 40bucks. Get the Enco catalog and you'll find an indicator and base that will meetyourneeds. Don D. ------------------Original text AM: I've been lurking and learning on the list for a month or so while attempting to gather tools to begin rodmaking. Here's the first of what may be many questions: Is it possible to purchase a quality depth gauge for less than $180-$210? I've checked on-line tool suppliers as well as thru a local hardware stores... I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to go low-quality. But this tool gathering is getting expensive! Thankseck from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Fri Aug 22 12:18:30 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA27581 for; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:18:22 -0400 Subject: Re: depth gauge Eric, I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to go low-quality. But this tool gathering is getting expensive! You ain't seen nothing yet!! This process can kill you, or at least break you. I've said it before, and I still believe it: The imperfections of your first couple of rods will be from technique problems rather than cheap tools. I don't mean to say cheap out on everything, but it is not necessary to get top line stuff. Good luck.t Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Fri Aug 22 12:23:50 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA10421 for; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 13:23:44 -0400 Subject: RE: depth gauge Patrick Coffey wrote:try MSC industrial Supply Co. they have the worlds biggest toolcatalogue, about 3' thick and I bought a real nice depth gage (not one Now Patrick, you shouldn't exaggerate, everyone knows its only two and a half feet thick. sorryt from jbr842@airmail.net Fri Aug 22 12:25:06 1997 mail.airmail.net (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.181) with smtp for Subject: Re: Gee ,Thanks Boy, have I got it good here! Wine you can drink, beer with flavour,oceans to sail and trout to catch. Maybe I should keep it all quiet ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/Tony, You rat!!!! Cordially, Jim Bryan from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Aug 22 12:40:25 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: depth gauge I learned an important lesson as a violin maker (8 years) you can onlydo work as good as your tools. Tools are the last thing you want toscrimp on, get the best you can afford-it will pay dividends in the longrun. As your skills improve cheap tools will hold you back and you willhave to get good ones sooner or later and it's cheaper if you don't haveto buy the cheap ones and then the good ones, also you will find that itis easier to improve your skills if you are using good tools in thefirst place. Just my two cents worth and past experience that my masterluthier taught me. Patrick ----------From: Thomas Ausfeld[SMTP:Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG]Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 6:13 AM Subject: Re: depth gauge Eric, I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to golow-quality. But this tool gathering is getting expensive! You ain't seen nothing yet!! This process can kill you, or at least break you. I've said it before, and I still believe it: The imperfections of your first couple of rods will be from technique problems rather than cheap tools. I don't mean to say cheap out on everything, but it is not necessary to get top line stuff. Good luck.t Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Aug 22 13:08:39 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id OAA28925 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: depth gauge I found a dial gauge from ENCO for about $20 but had trouble making thebase out of wood, as Wayne suggests. I didn't have a drill press norwas I good at drilling a straight hole for the post. So, I went to alocal machine shop and had them drill the holes (as per Wayne's book) ina block of steel. It cost $20. I then wrapped tape around the post ofthe dial gauge to make it stay and it works great. Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA -----Original Message-----From: eric.koehler@meissner- wurst.com[SMTP:eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com]Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 12:52 PM Subject: depth gauge I've been lurking and learning on the list for a month or sowhile attempting to gather tools to begin rodmaking. Here's the first of what may be many questions: Is it possibleto purchase a quality depth gauge for less than $180-$210? I'vechecked on-line tool suppliers as well as thru a local hardware stores... I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to go low-quality.But this tool gathering is getting expensive! Thankseck from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Aug 22 13:15:27 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id OAA29065 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Ferrule Failures I believe this could be a problem with the last rod in particular. I'vekept the rod next to the dehumidifier, set on high. The heat from themachine keeps the rod about 95 degrees. It has sat this way for abouttwo months and when I took it out last the guides rattled, just as yousaid the ferrules would do. But, all the previous failures did not havethe "rattling guides." I've used Duro epoxy to replace the ferrulesthat fail and have had no subsequent problems. Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA -----Original Message-----From: Terence Ackland [SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net]Sent: Thursday, August 21, 1997 4:49 PM Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Thoman, Brian A. wrote: I've read in the Listserve archives about some people havingferrulesfail when using Devcon 2-ton epoxy so I thought I'd tell of myexperiences. So far, I've built four rods. Two 2-pieces, one3-piece and one 1-piece. Every ferrule was glued with Devcon epoxy andeveryrod with a ferrule has had at least one failure. Each was cleanedbefore gluing with a degreaser followed by alcohol. I'd say that'sapretty high failure rate. Any similar experiences? Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA Brian,I guess I will have a stab at this one, all the interesting questionsget passed over. Without knowing your actual proceedure it sounds to me like a moistureproblem. You could be gluing ferrules to a blank that contains toomuchmoisture and as it drys out the blank shrinks and becomes loose in theferrule. If you follow the recomended time temperature for drying the cane fromGarrisons book you will get this problem. I believe there is aprinterserror in the book.Basement stored cane is not very dry and 6 minutes in the oven willnotdry even the very ends. Adhesives can also contain moisture and havetobe dried out of the cane before fitting ferrules and finnishing This also shows that the finish you have chosen cannot keep humidityin, therefore it will not keep it out. To me the ability to control the moisture fluctuations is the key to arod with an action that does not change and will never needrefinishing. I am not plugging myself here, I have actually got tired of buildingrods, they have become rather repetitive. I also understand that it isbad form to go against the book but I honestly believe it is only astarting point and better rods can be made without getting locked in. Terry Ackland from Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Fri Aug 22 13:19:53 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA14674 for; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 14:19:50 -0400 Subject: RE: depth gauge Patrick, Point well taken, I did mention "not cheap tools". As a beginner, I don't think its completely necessary to have a $100 plane with a hock blade to start with, when a $40 record or stanley with stock blade willsuffice. Right there is an $80 savings. I fully realize that the yard sale cheapothat has no adjustments and sells for $4.50 will be a handicap. I remember when I started tool gathering, it was easy to get caught up in the mysticism behind rod making, it seemed like a very long road. Complicate that with the differing (and sometimes strong) opinions of the ones already building rods.My first book was Garrison's, who I feel overly complicated the craft. According to him, I should have 5 different types of planes. This just isn't necessary. If I held out for top of the line stuff, I wouldn't of cast my first two rods this past year. I just wanted to make the point, top of the line is not required, nice to have, but not required. I do agree though, cheap is bad. Can you tell I'm clock watching this afternoon? Pulled a double shift last night and my ambition is a little on low side. This is the most you guys (and gals) heard from me in a long time. Respectfully,tom "watcher of clocks" ausfeld I learned an important lesson as a violin maker (8 years) you can onlydo work as good as your tools. Tools are the last thing you want toscrimp on, get the best you can afford-it will pay dividends in the longrun. As your skills improve cheap tools will hold you back and you willhave to get good ones sooner or later and it's cheaper if you don't haveto buy the cheap ones and then the good ones, also you will find that itis easier to improve your skills if you are using good tools in thefirst place. Just my two cents worth and past experience that my masterluthier taught me. Patrick ----------From: Thomas Ausfeld[SMTP:Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG]Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 6:13 AM Subject: Re: depth gauge Eric, I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to golow-quality. But this tool gathering is getting expensive! You ain't seen nothing yet!! This process can kill you, or at least break you. I've said it before, and I still believe it: The imperfections of your first couple of rods will be from technique problems rather than cheap tools. I don't mean to say cheap out on everything, but it is not necessary to get top line stuff. Good luck.t Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Aug 22 13:27:10 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Alisa Fillpot wrote: Regarding the cleaning of ferrules. Alcohol will not have any effect onflux. If any flux was left in the ferrules after it was soldered, theepoxy will not bond to that surface. A good wash in a moderate basewillpreclude this.John Zimny Moderate base? guess you lost me. Could you get more specific on whatyoureccomend to clean the ferules Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado --Just wash it with a little baking soda disolved in a cup of water.John from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Aug 22 13:43:51 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: depth gauge you can get a stanley 9 1/2 block plane from William Alden for $27.99. Istarted watching the clock yesterday afternoon-I figure its never toearly to start, after all I do like to beat the crowd. Patrick ----------From: Thomas Ausfeld[SMTP:Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG]Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 7:14 AM Subject: RE: depth gauge Patrick, Point well taken, I did mention "not cheap tools". As a beginner, I don't think its completely necessary to have a $100 plane with a hock blade to start with, when a $40 record or stanley with stock bladewill suffice. Right there is an $80 savings. I fully realize that the yard salecheapothat has no adjustments and sells for $4.50 will be a handicap. I remember when I started tool gathering, it was easy to get caught up in the mysticism behind rod making, it seemed like a very long road. Complicate that with the differing (and sometimes strong) opinions of the ones already building rods.My first book was Garrison's, who I feel overly complicated the craft. According to him, I should have 5 different types of planes. This justisn't necessary. If I held out for top of the line stuff, I wouldn't of cast my first two rods this past year. I just wanted to make the point, top of the line is not required, nice to have, but not required. I do agree though, cheap is bad. Can you tell I'm clock watching this afternoon? Pulled a double shift last night and my ambition is a little on low side. This is the most you guys (and gals) heard from me in a long time. Respectfully,tom "watcher of clocks" ausfeld I learned an important lesson as a violin maker (8 years) you canonlydo work as good as your tools. Tools are the last thing you want toscrimp on, get the best you can afford-it will pay dividends in thelongrun. As your skills improve cheap tools will hold you back and youwillhave to get good ones sooner or later and it's cheaper if you don'thaveto buy the cheap ones and then the good ones, also you will findthat itis easier to improve your skills if you are using good tools in thefirst place. Just my two cents worth and past experience that mymasterluthier taught me. Patrick ----------From: Thomas Ausfeld[SMTP:Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG]Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 6:13 AM Subject: Re: depth gauge Eric, I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to golow-quality. But this tool gathering is getting expensive! You ain't seen nothing yet!! This process can kill you, or at least break you. I've said it before, and I still believe it: The imperfections of your first couple of rods will be from technique problems rather than cheap tools. I don't mean to say cheap out on everything, but it is not necessary to get top line stuff. Good luck.t Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Aug 22 15:42:36 1997 (205.236.248.204) Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Thoman, Brian A. wrote: I believe this could be a problem with the last rod in particular.I'vekept the rod next to the dehumidifier, set on high. The heat from the machine keeps the rod about 95 degrees. It has sat this way for about two months and when I took it out last the guides rattled, just as you said the ferrules would do. But, all the previous failures did nothavethe "rattling guides." I've used Duro epoxy to replace the ferrulesthat fail and have had no subsequent problems. Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA Brian, silk thread will give loose guides when the the rod dries out. If nylonis used the elasticity should prevent the guides from loosening if theywere wrapped with enough tension. I also think that the 2 ton epoxy would have done just as good a job asthe Duro for the re-gluing because the rod had reached an equilibriummoisture content .Terry Ackland from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Aug 22 15:56:05 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id QAA02816 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Ferrule Failures I did use silk thread and I'm sure that's why the guides were loose.The first two failures (not on this particular rod) were reglued withthe 2-ton and one failed a second time. I'm going to give the 2-tonanother chance since I have a brand new tube but I may continue to usethe Duro if I don't have a failure. Thanks,Brian -----Original Message-----From: Terence Ackland [SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net]Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures silk thread will give loose guides when the the rod dries out. Ifnylonis used the elasticity should prevent the guides from loosening iftheywere wrapped with enough tension. I also think that the 2 ton epoxy would have done just as good a jobasthe Duro for the re-gluing because the rod had reached an equilibriummoisture content .Terry Ackland from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Aug 22 18:49:31 1997 (205.236.248.188) Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 8/22/97 4:22:32 AM, you wrote: moistureproblem. You could be gluing ferrules to a blank that contains toomuchmoisture and as it drys out the blank shrinks and becomes loose in the ferrule. If you follow the recommended time temperature for drying the canefromGarrisons book you will get this problem. I believe there is aprinterserror in the book.>> Terry - You could well be right about shrinkage, I have seen ithappen. I oncerestored an old rod that I later found out had been in a garage foryears. Thecane shrank so much the ferrule actually became so loose it rattled. Idothink, however, that some glues are just not suited for this work.They justseem to crystallize from the constant flexing. Any shrinkage wouldonly add tothe problem.As to Garrison's heat schedule, it doesn't work in my oven either. Idon'tthink it's because of a misprint, however, I think his oven was moreagressivethan mine. I am not an engineer and no expert on heat transfer, but Iseem torecall from basic science that there is a difference between radiantheat andconvective heat. I use a relatively small electric element and theoven takesa while to heat up. Garrison's setup involved direct flame on a steelpipe. Ithink it radiated heat to the cane much faster. Any of the engineersout therecare to comment? Tom,the oven which I have used since I started making rods consists of alength of pipe which is wrapped with 2 1,000w heat mats and thencovered with insulation. What I have is a 5ft pipe heated all around anddown the length with no cold spots. This is all kept within a tightlimit with a proportional controller. Six minutes is just not enough, sorry. This is why straightening is sodifficult and the twists often return. The moisture gets chased out fromthat particular area with the heat and then returns when the rod cools.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Aug 22 19:14:26 1997 (205.236.248.188) Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Thoman, Brian A. wrote: I did use silk thread and I'm sure that's why the guides were loose.The first two failures (not on this particular rod) were reglued withthe 2-ton and one failed a second time. I'm going to give the 2-tonanother chance since I have a brand new tube but I may continue to use the Duro if I don't have a failure. Thanks,Brian -----Original Message-----From: Terence Ackland [SMTP:hexagon@odyssee.net]Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 4:41 PM Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures silk thread will give loose guides when the the rod dries out. Ifnylonis used the elasticity should prevent the guides from loosening iftheywere wrapped with enough tension. I also think that the 2 ton epoxy would have done just as good a job asthe Duro for the re-gluing because the rod had reached anequilibriummoisture content .Terry Ackland Brian,I do not use epoxy for ferrules, I use hot melt glue, used with aspirit lamp. I make my ferrule a loose fit on the blanks so that thereis a cushion of pliable adhesive around the cane. I have been usingthis method for years(10) and have had no failures. I make my ferrulesvery tight by the way. I am not much of a believer in epoxy, I find it expensive and messy andnot really an adhesive for a dynamic material as bamboo or wood. If arod is not completely protected from the seasonal changes in humiditythen the the failure of epoxy is assuredTerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Aug 22 20:08:14 1997 Sat, 23 Aug 1997 09:07:33 +0800 (WST) Subject: RE: depth gauge I agree, but it wont take too long before you reach the stage where poor tools will hinder you considerably. At least buy a good plane and decent sharpening stone. Cheep tools are normaly the most expensive in the longrun. Tony On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Thomas Ausfeld wrote: Patrick, Point well taken, I did mention "not cheap tools". As a beginner, I don't think its completely necessary to have a $100 plane with a hock blade to start with, when a $40 record or stanley with stock blade willsuffice. Right there is an $80 savings. I fully realize that the yard sale cheapothat has no adjustments and sells for $4.50 will be a handicap. I remember when I started tool gathering, it was easy to get caught up in the mysticism behind rod making, it seemed like a very long road. Complicate that with the differing (and sometimes strong) opinions of the ones already building rods.My first book was Garrison's, who I feel overly complicated the craft. According to him, I should have 5 different types of planes. This justisn't necessary. If I held out for top of the line stuff, I wouldn't of cast my first two rods this past year. I just wanted to make the point, top of the line is not required, nice to have, but not required. I do agree though, cheap is bad. Can you tell I'm clock watching this afternoon? Pulled a double shift last night and my ambition is a little on low side. This is the most you guys (and gals) heard from me in a long time. Respectfully,tom "watcher of clocks" ausfeld I learned an important lesson as a violin maker (8 years) you can onlydo work as good as your tools. Tools are the last thing you want toscrimp on, get the best you can afford-it will pay dividends in the longrun. As your skills improve cheap tools will hold you back and you willhave to get good ones sooner or later and it's cheaper if you don't haveto buy the cheap ones and then the good ones, also you will find that itis easier to improve your skills if you are using good tools in thefirst place. Just my two cents worth and past experience that mymasterluthier taught me. Patrick ----------From: Thomas Ausfeld[SMTP:Thomas.Ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG]Sent: Friday, August 22, 1997 6:13 AM Subject: Re: depth gauge Eric, I know it's an important tool, so I don't want to golow-quality. But this tool gathering is getting expensive! You ain't seen nothing yet!! This process can kill you, or at least break you. I've said it before, and I still believe it: The imperfections of your first couple of rods will be from technique problems rather than cheap tools. I don't mean to say cheap out on everything, but it is not necessary to get top line stuff. Good luck.t Tom Ausfeld (Thomas.Ausfeld@hitchcock.org)Dartmouth Hitchcock Memorial HospitalDept. Of Biomedical Engineering /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Aug 22 20:31:10 1997 Subject: Re: depth gauge I'll second that. Getcha some decent tools, learn to use them, anddevelop the proper skills free from unnecessary pitfalls.Tools are expensive, but hey, what isn't? Brian > from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Aug 22 20:36:57 1997 Subject: Re: depth gauge One thing that we have overlooked. That really good tools make the workeasier, and carry some big magic of their own. Believing that you havethe best really has an effect on your efforts. Brian > from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Fri Aug 22 20:50:21 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 22 Aug 1997 19:50:16 MDT #19314) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, Subject: Please forgive Don Anderson and Don Deloach did you receive my personal e- mail?gjflyfsh@uwyo.edujerry-wy from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Aug 22 21:05:34 1997 (205.236.249.72) Subject: Re: Gee ,Thanks Jim Bryan wrote: snip Boy, have I got it good here! Wine you can drink, beer with flavour, oceans to sail and trout to catch. Maybe I should keep it all quiet;-) TonyTony, you even carry spare corks hanging round your hats eh?Terry /***********************************************************************/ Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/Tony, You rat!!!! Cordially, Jim Bryan from ghilbers@earthlink.net Fri Aug 22 21:27:24 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Tom,the oven which I have used since I started making rods consists of alength of pipe which is wrapped with 2 1,000w heat mats and thencovered with insulation. What I have is a 5ft pipe heated all around anddown the length with no cold spots. This is all kept within a tightlimit with a proportional controller. Six minutes is just not enough, sorry. This is why straightening is sodifficult and the twists often return. The moisture gets chased out fromthat particular area with the heat and then returns when the rod cools.Terry Terry; I am new at this. Tell me more about these heat mats. Like where doyou get them, etc. Thank YouGary Hilbers from pezdel@iconn.net Fri Aug 22 21:38:46 1997 22:37:30 -0400 Subject: RE: Please forgive To whom was it going to? ---------- Subject: Please forgive Don Anderson and Don Deloach did you receive my personal e- mail?gjflyfsh@uwyo.edujerry-wy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Aug 23 05:58:29 1997 Sat, 23 Aug 1997 18:58:21 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Gee ,Thanks On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Terence Ackland wrote: Jim Bryan wrote: snip Boy, have I got it good here! Wine you can drink, beer with flavour, oceans to sail and trout to catch. Maybe I should keep it all quiet;-) TonyTony, you even carry spare corks hanging round your hats eh?Terry Never seen it done, but I'm told we do. Now I think of it, makes a handy place to keep all that wine bottle cork till you need it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from skyboss@ibm.net Sat Aug 23 11:30:45 1997 SMTP id QAA146230 for ; Sat, 23 Aug 199716:30:33 GMT 23 Aug 1997 09:29:23 -0600 Subject: Fly Tackle Dealer Show Assistance =_NextPart_000_01BCAFA7.0A970580" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCAFA7.0A970580 Gentlemen, I will be attending the 1997 Fly Tackle Dealer Show in Denver this year, =September 17 - 20. Although not a cane builder, I have the honor and =pleasure of assisting my friend, David Norwich of Scotland who has a =booth of his own this year for the first time. David will be attempting =to sell some of his cane and graphite rods in the U.S. market. I know some of you may want to visit the show but for what ever reason =can not. I am offering that I will pass along your names and addresses = Send me a private e-mail and I will send you my address. What I would =hope to arrange is that you would send your business cards and a list of =product types you are interested in. When I make the rounds at the show =I will inform the specific product type manufacturers/sales =reps/owners/builders etc that you would like to receive product =information about his/her products. What is in it for me. Nothing, other than I admire the work of all cane =makers, famous or not. I envy you and your talents. Sincerely, Ken HolderSkyboss@ibm.net ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCAFA7.0A970580 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCAFA7.0A970580-- from cmax@jymis.com Sat Aug 23 12:58:15 1997 Subject: Splitting headache Greetings,I have just recently logged on. For the most part I have just beenreading and learning. I have just finished my first rod-which consumedan entire culm of tonkin cane. I recently purchaced a bamboo froe, andhave not had much better rusults. While, I am learning a great dealabout splitting as I go along, I would like improve my technique enoughthat I am not speaking with Demarest each day. I have started using Garrisons bench technique and have had goodresults. I would prefer to use the Froe however, since it seems to makethe job alot less tramatic. If anyone could provide me with some tips as to the use of the froe, Iwould greatly appriciate it. The welts on my head- from breaking wastedstrips over it-have finally healed. Thanks in advance, Chris MaxfieldFT. Collins, CO from jbr842@airmail.net Sat Aug 23 13:40:30 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.181) with smtp for Subject: Re: Splitting headache Chris Maxfield wrote: Greetings,I have just recently logged on. For the most part I have just beenreading and learning. I have just finished my first rod-which consumedan entire culm of tonkin cane. I recently purchaced a bamboo froe, andhave not had much better rusults. While, I am learning a great dealabout splitting as I go along, I would like improve my technique enoughthat I am not speaking with Demarest each day. I have started using Garrisons bench technique and have had goodresults. I would prefer to use the Froe however, since it seems to makethe job alot less tramatic. If anyone could provide me with some tips as to the use of the froe, Iwould greatly appriciate it. The welts on my head- from breaking wastedstrips over it-have finally healed. Thanks in advance, Chris MaxfieldFT. Collins, CO Chris, I'm not a rodmaker, but I have seen this tip on the list in the past andhave used it myself in other applications with close-fibered woods and,although technically bamboo is a grass, it should yield similar results.Forgive me if you have tried it already. Rather than trying to split inthin strips from one side of the segment, split the segment in half,then in half again, then... etc. That way the path of splitting isequally (more or less) supported by the fibers on each side and yourknife, froe, or whatever does not tend to split to the unsupported, orthin side of the segment. Hope this helps prevent new welts on yournoggin. By the way, my wife and I have a house just south of Estes Parkand are headed up that way next week. Where are they biting? Cordially,Jim Bryan- the Old Cop from Dallas from skyboss@ibm.net Sat Aug 23 15:52:17 1997 "Rodmakers (E-mail)" Subject: Top Ten List - Apologies to David Letterman =_NextPart_000_01BCAFCB.77766140" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCAFCB.77766140 Top Ten Reasons You're a Certified Flyfishing Addict 10. You'll pay 60 bucks for a Hoffman's #2 but scoff at your wife whenshe pays $3.89 a pound for a fryer chicken. 9. You go to a petting zoo and ask to see the peacocks. 8. You giggle quietly when flyfishing neophytes pronounce the "P" inPflueger. 7. You name your golden retriever "Tippet" 6. Finding the Holy Grail is discovering the exact chemical compositionof Gehrke's Gink" 5. You silently mouth the closing words to "A River Runs Through It" asit repeats on HBO for the 100th time. 4. You wet your shoelaces with saliva before you pull them tight 3. Powerbait, bobber, garden hackle and pork rind are curse words. 2. You subscribe to the Flyfish, Rod Makers and Flytie Lists and feelwithdrawal symptoms if you don't read every thread or message. 1. You name your first born son Orvis. KenSkyboss@ibm.net from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Aug 23 16:50:29 1997 ; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 09:52:10 +1200 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures At 07:48 PM 22/08/97 -0400, you wrote:TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 8/22/97 4:22:32 AM, you wrote: moistureproblem. You could be gluing ferrules to a blank that contains toomuchmoisture and as it drys out the blank shrinks and becomes loose in the ferrule. If you follow the recommended time temperature for drying the canefromGarrisons book you will get this problem. I believe there is aprinterserror in the book.>> Terry - You could well be right about shrinkage, I have seen ithappen. I oncerestored an old rod that I later found out had been in a garage for.agressivethan mine. I am not an engineer and no expert on heat transfer, but I. clippedTom,the oven which I have used since I started making rods consists of alength of pipe which is wrapped with 2 1,000w heat mats and thencovered with insulation. What I have is a 5ft pipe heated all around anddown the length with no cold spots. This is all kept within a tightlimit with a proportional controller. Six minutes is just not enough, sorry. This is why straightening is sodifficult and the twists often return. The moisture gets chased out fromthat particular area with the heat and then returns when the rod cools.Terry Tom and Terry I am not an expert in either rod making or or heat transfer but are involvedin the timber industry and the drying of timber . It seems to me thatmoisture in timber can be a problem and drying of timber is a complexprocess that cannot be done quickly without creating problems. In our business it takes about 4 days in a controlled temperatre kiln totake a 1 inch thickness of low density timber like pine from 19 % to 12 %moisture and up to two weeks for high density hardwoods . There are fastdrying kilns which can do this in about 2 days but they usually causetwisting and checking ( very minute cross fractures )of the wood due todifferential drying and movement of moisture . Cane would have a densitysimilar to high density hardwoods . It seems to me that drying using a slower more controlled heat process ,including the use of steam to control humidity during drying , could lessenmany of the twist problems in drying . Unfortunately I cannot offer adviceas to how to do this for the rodmaker at this stage , other then to try tofind a local timber processor with a low temperature kiln and ask them ifyou can put some culns in the back corner for a few days . Incidently there are also major problems if you over dry and take themoisture content below 10% as there is some cell failure in the timberandmoisture will be absorbed dirrerentially in the future causing twistingthatwill not be fixed by attempting to corrrect moisture differences . my two cents worth Ian K. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Sat Aug 23 18:44:05 1997 mailfep2-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Let me throw my 2 cents in on ferrule failures: I've been building canerods since 1991 and have never had a ferrule loosen. My procedure isvery simple: First, swab the inside of ferrule with denatured alcohol.Second, turn the ferrule station on rod blank for tight fit of theferrule -- but, not so tight that excessive force is needed to seat theferrule. Third, 'rough-up' the interior of the ferrule with a needlefile. 'Rough-up' means scraping and scratching thousands of tiny linesinside the ferrule to give the ferrule some 'teeth' -- this gives theepoxy something to grip  a mirror smooth interior of a ferrule isn'tthe best surface for epoxy adhesion. Fourth, wrap the ferrule withbinding cord and allow sufficient curing time. Joe LovertiLoverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from WDHCJL@aol.com Sat Aug 23 23:09:53 1997 Subject: Re: Top Ten List - Apologies to David Letterman To Ken / Skyboss,Number 1 would obviously would only apply to someone that was misleadas tobeing the true parent of the child (Orvis) . Does anyone other than me getthis? from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Aug 24 08:50:44 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Ferrule Failures In a message dated 8/23/97 12:18:35 AM, you wrote: Terry - I'm not a big fan of epoxy for ferrules either, but the hot meltglues make me nervous for another reason. I've had a couple of femalesuper Zferrules come apart due to poor solder joints over the years. I amconcernedabout applying heat to the female ferrules for fear of disturbing thisjoint.Any tricks you can share with regard to this? -- Tom from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Aug 24 09:06:09 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Ferrule Failures In a message dated 8/23/97 9:51:27 PM, you wrote: Ian - Thanks for the input, but what Terry and I were discussing is asomewhat different thing. We are starting with material that is alreadywelldried, probably into the 10-12 percent area. What we are doing is a heattreatment that stiffens the bamboo further. As to the exact mechanismthatcauses this or the best way to do it, lets just say that any attempt todiscuss this area usually leads off into Voodoo, Alchemy, and accusationsofDevil Worship and leave it at that. :-) -- Tom from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Aug 24 10:52:16 1997 (205.236.249.95) Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/23/97 12:18:35 AM, you wrote: spirit lamp. >> Terry - I'm not a big fan of epoxy for ferrules either, but the hotmeltglues make me nervous for another reason. I've had a couple of femalesuper Zferrules come apart due to poor solder joints over the years. I amconcernedabout applying heat to the female ferrules for fear of disturbing thisjoint.Any tricks you can share with regard to this? -- Tom Tom,I heat up the glue and the bamboo together working on a good layer ofglue on the joint area. While the glue is still molten I quickly pushthe ferrule on and wipe off the excess glue. The melting temperature ofthe glue is far below that of soft solder. Make sure there is clearancebetween the cane and the ferrule so that air and excess glue can escape. Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Aug 24 11:06:42 1997 (205.236.249.95) Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/23/97 9:51:27 PM, you wrote: moisture in timber can be a problem and drying of timber is a complexprocess that cannot be done quickly without creating problems. Ian - Thanks for the input, but what Terry and I were discussing is asomewhat different thing. We are starting with material that isalready welldried, probably into the 10-12 percent area. What we are doing is aheattreatment that stiffens the bamboo further. As to the exact mechanismthatcauses this or the best way to do it, lets just say that any attempttodiscuss this area usually leads off into Voodoo, Alchemy, andaccusations ofDevil Worship and leave it at that. :-) -- Tom Tom,a 'well dried' piece of cane from say a basement workshop on a July dayin Atlanta is a not quite as well dried as a piece of cane stored in abarn in New Mexico.Is a well dried piece of cane well dried enough for flyrods? I do notthink so.Terry from bc940@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sun Aug 24 12:39:07 1997 LAA17378; Sun, 24 Aug 1997 11:39:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Moderate base? guess you lost me. Could you get more specific on whatyoureccomend to clean the ferules Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado --Just wash it with a little baking soda disolved in a cup of water.John Thanks John, some time I am more than a little slow.:) Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado -- from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Aug 25 00:58:00 1997 ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 17:57:50 +1200 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures At 12:04 PM 24/08/97 -0400, you wrote:TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/23/97 9:51:27 PM, you wrote: moisture in timber can be a problem and drying of timber is a complexprocess that cannot be done quickly without creating problems. Ian - Thanks for the input, but what Terry and I were discussing is asomewhat different thing. We are starting with material that isalready welldried, probably into the 10-12 percent area. What we are doing is aheattreatment that stiffens the bamboo further. As to the exact mechanismthatcauses this or the best way to do it, lets just say that any attempttodiscuss this area usually leads off into Voodoo, Alchemy, andaccusations ofDevil Worship and leave it at that. :-) -- Tom Tom,a 'well dried' piece of cane from say a basement workshop on a July dayin Atlanta is a not quite as well dried as a piece of cane stored in abarn in New Mexico.Is a well dried piece of cane well dried enough for flyrods? I do notthink so.TerryTerry I do not particually wish to further extend this discussion as I tend toagree with Tom's comments as where it leads . However ....Any timber will change its moisture content to match the moisturecontent ofthe surrounding atmosphere .( not the relative humidity ) If it moves itsmoisture content up it will swell and vice versa if its moisture contentdecreases . most of the movement will be in diameter rather then inlengthhence my link to ferrul fitting . I saw a note in a relatively reputablejournal suggesting that 6% might be appropriate for Arizona and 12% for anormal temperate climate . ( shall we say 25% for England in myexperience ) regards Iank Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Aug 25 01:06:11 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures In a message dated 97-08-24 11:58:07 EDT, you write: I've had a couple of female super Z ferrules come apart due to poor solder joints over the years. I am concerned about applying heat to the female ferrules for fear of disturbing this joint. You must have jinxed me! I just went out to lawn cast the redone6' 2" rod, and I noticed it knocking. I took a long close look atthe cane - ferrule juncture under magnification, and couldn't see anything wrong. So I held the barrel of the female side with a ragand pulled, thinking that I would see a little separation if the gluewas failing. What happened was the ferrule pulled apart! The barrelpulled off the tube. My other hobby is jewelry making, so I amthinking of trying to resolder it myself, but if I botch the job I'm out$40. Probably the best thing to do is return it. So how hard is it to make ferrules yourself? I think I recall ourAustralian friend doing it about a year ago. Sir Darryl from nakayama@katri.kajima.co.jp Mon Aug 25 04:11:12 1997 (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.4W4) with ESMTP id SAA03322 for; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 18:10:44 +0900 (JST) SMTP id SAA12593 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 199718:10:43 +0900 (JST) katrigw.katri.kajima.co.jp (8.6.11+2.4W/3.4W3) with SMTP id SAA26404 Subject: Re: Cork rings needed At 10:05 AM 97.8.19, flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote:I'm restoring an old rod and need a few large dia. cross-cut cork rings(~1 3/16" or larger) to correctly repair the cork grip - does anyone onehave any of these? "pinholes" are on the outer dia. I'm willing purchase them outright orswap for a few old-style stripper guides. Thanks, Don Burns Hi Don, You can get such cork rings from pharmaceutical products supplyer.Cross cut corks are usually used for plug of cmemical glass containers. Minoru Nakayama from harry37@epix.net Mon Aug 25 07:22:42 1997 IAA23034 Subject: Ferrule sizing I have been refurbishing old cane blanks (usually without ferrules) orrods that show some promise, with encouraging results. My biggestdifficulty, however, has been in selecting and sizing ferrules. Cananyone give me any advice on how to select sizes? Am I better to fitthe smaller upper section and machine the lower section to fit (andwould this affect the power fibers), fit the lower section and build upthe smaller upper section, or to split the difference between both? Sofar, I've selected ferrules that seemed to minimize the amount of workneeded for both pieces, and have had a very accomodating fly shop dealerwho had a rather good selection of ferrules and let me fit them. I'dlike to be able to mail order and save some money, but I've got thefeeling that I'd either be returning a lot, or ordering a lot more thanI'd really need--The accomodating fly shop dealer is charging top dollar the fact that some of these rods may have had a little shortening workdone on them, and there may be a big diference between sections. Isthere also a rule of thumb to follow in looking at an old blank inmeasuring diameter differences between the top of a lower section andthe base of the next section up? Any advice, as well as leads on ferrule sources, would be a great help.Contact me off list if you'd like. Thanks, Greg Kuntz from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Aug 25 07:49:18 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures In a message dated 8/25/97 12:13:19 PM, you wrote: Sorry about that. Infuriating, isn't it. The solder joint is the Achillesheel of the Super Z. I did re-solder one successfully once. I also tried toepoxy one back together with some potent epoxy, but it failed again afterafew months. If you're serious about building one, Tony has instructions onhis web page. Also, Dave LeClair has a series going in TPF on how to do it.There are some older articles in TPF also. I wish someone would come outwitha high quality stamped ferrule. I'm sure it would be both stronger andlighter. I doubt that we would generate the volume to justify the toolingcost, however. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Aug 25 09:16:17 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Splitting headache boundary="---- =_NextPart_000_01BCB126.8C7B0F80" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB126.8C7B0F80 ----------From: Jim Bryan[SMTP:jbr842@airmail.net]Sent: Saturday, August 23, 1997 11:41 AM Subject: Re: Splitting headache Chris Maxfield wrote: Greetings,I have just recently logged on. For the most part I have just beenreading and learning. I have just finished my first rod-whichconsumedan entire culm of tonkin cane. I recently purchaced a bamboo froe,andhave not had much better rusults. While, I am learning a great dealabout splitting as I go along, I would like improve my techniqueenoughthat I am not speaking with Demarest each day. I have started using Garrisons bench technique and have had goodresults. I would prefer to use the Froe however, since it seems tomakethe job alot less tramatic. If anyone could provide me with some tips as to the use of the froe,Iwould greatly appriciate it. The welts on my head- from breakingwastedstrips over it-have finally healed. Thanks in advance, Chris MaxfieldFT. Collins, CO Chris, I'm not a rodmaker, but I have seen this tip on the list in the pastandhave used it myself in other applications with close-fibered woodsand,although technically bamboo is a grass, it should yield similarresults.Forgive me if you have tried it already. Rather than trying to splitinthin strips from one side of the segment, split the segment in half,then in half again, then... etc. That way the path of splitting isequally (more or less) supported by the fibers on each side and yourknife, froe, or whatever does not tend to split to the unsupported, orthin side of the segment. Hope this helps prevent new welts on yournoggin. By the way, my wife and I have a house just south of EstesParkand are headed up that way next week. Where are they biting? Cordially,Jim Bryan- the Old Cop from Dallas ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB126.8C7B0F80 Subject: splitting Getting a bamboo froe is definitely the way to go. Measure thecircumference of the fat end of the culm and divide it by six,put pencilmarks on the end of the culm. Split the culm in half length wise andthen split each half into thirds following your pencil marks. You shouldhave 6 pieces of roughly equal width in front of you. Now all you haveto do is split each of those pieces in half, now you have 12 pieces. Nowsplit each of those in half and you end up with 24 strips. What I foundthat helps me is measuring the width of each piece and carring my pencilmarks all the way down. In other Words after I've spit in half and amnow going to split each half into thirds, I measure the width at eachnode and divide by three and put a pencil mark-thats the mark I aim atwhen splitting and adjust the split in or out to hit those marks. If youhold the froe in your right had (if your are right handed) and thebamboo in you left hand with your thumb pointed towards the middle ofyour body and along the edge of the bamboo closest to your body, you candirect the split by bending the strip across its width towards you ifyou want the split to run towards the right looking down on the strip oraway from you if you want to move it towards the left looking down onthe strip. What you are attempting to do is to get the split to moveside ways jumping across the grain by arching the bamboo so the splitmoves side ways. Hope this helps, the first culm I split doing it thisway I easily got 24 strips out of it and probably could have got more. Patrick ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCB126.8C7B0F80-- from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Aug 25 09:29:10 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule sizing Sir Daryl gave a nice tip a few months back about measuring the size withyour micrometer (in decimal inches) and then mutiplying by 64 to get the#of 64ths. It works really well. REC sells what look to be top qualityferrules. There web address is : http://www.flyfishers.com/rec/you might start there. What say ye, Sir Daryl? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.eduhttp://www.eou.edu/fao/fish.htm ----------From: Greg Kuntz Subject: Ferrule sizingDate: Monday, August 25, 1997 5:23 AM I have been refurbishing old cane blanks (usually without ferrules) orrods that show some promise, with encouraging results. My biggestdifficulty, however, has been in selecting and sizing ferrules. Cananyone give me any advice on how to select sizes? Am I better to fitthe smaller upper section and machine the lower section to fit (andwould this affect the power fibers), fit the lower section and build upthe smaller upper section, or to split the difference between both? Sofar, I've selected ferrules that seemed to minimize the amount of workneeded for both pieces, and have had a very accomodating fly shop dealerwho had a rather good selection of ferrules and let me fit them. I'dlike to be able to mail order and save some money, but I've got thefeeling that I'd either be returning a lot, or ordering a lot more thanI'd really need--The accomodating fly shop dealer is charging top dollar the fact that some of these rods may have had a little shortening workdone on them, and there may be a big diference between sections. Isthere also a rule of thumb to follow in looking at an old blank inmeasuring diameter differences between the top of a lower section andthe base of the next section up? Any advice, as well as leads on ferrule sources, would be a great help.Contact me off list if you'd like. Thanks, Greg Kuntz from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Aug 25 09:38:40 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Ferrule Failures Walton Powell's oven time and temperatures for heat treating are 250degrees for 1 1/2-2 hours to get the main body of moisture moving outwith out it turning to steam and rupturing the cells,then 300 degrees has never had a rod that took a set and that they were quite easy tostraighten. Patrick ----------From: Ian Kearney[SMTP:iank@nelson.planet.org.nz]Sent: Saturday, August 23, 1997 2:52 PM Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures At 07:48 PM 22/08/97 -0400, you wrote:TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 8/22/97 4:22:32 AM, you wrote: moistureproblem. You could be gluing ferrules to a blank that contains toomuchmoisture and as it drys out the blank shrinks and becomes loose inthe ferrule. If you follow the recommended time temperature for drying the canefromGarrisons book you will get this problem. I believe there is aprinterserror in the book.>> Terry - You could well be right about shrinkage, I have seen ithappen. I oncerestored an old rod that I later found out had been in a garagefor.agressivethan mine. I am not an engineer and no expert on heat transfer, butI. clippedTom,the oven which I have used since I started making rods consists of alength of pipe which is wrapped with 2 1,000w heat mats and thencovered with insulation. What I have is a 5ft pipe heated all aroundanddown the length with no cold spots. This is all kept within a tightlimit with a proportional controller. Six minutes is just not enough, sorry. This is why straightening issodifficult and the twists often return. The moisture gets chased outfromthat particular area with the heat and then returns when the rodcools.Terry Tom and Terry I am not an expert in either rod making or or heat transfer but areinvolvedin the timber industry and the drying of timber . It seems to me thatmoisture in timber can be a problem and drying of timber is a complexprocess that cannot be done quickly without creating problems. In our business it takes about 4 days in a controlled temperatre kilntotake a 1 inch thickness of low density timber like pine from 19 % to12 %moisture and up to two weeks for high density hardwoods . There arefastdrying kilns which can do this in about 2 days but they usually causetwisting and checking ( very minute cross fractures )of the wood duetodifferential drying and movement of moisture . Cane would have adensitysimilar to high density hardwoods . It seems to me that drying using a slower more controlled heat process,including the use of steam to control humidity during drying , couldlessenmany of the twist problems in drying . Unfortunately I cannot offeradviceas to how to do this for the rodmaker at this stage , other then totry tofind a local timber processor with a low temperature kiln and ask themifyou can put some culns in the back corner for a few days . Incidently there are also major problems if you over dry and take themoisture content below 10% as there is some cell failure in the timberandmoisture will be absorbed dirrerentially in the future causingtwisting thatwill not be fixed by attempting to corrrect moisture differences . my two cents worth Ian K. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Aug 25 09:44:28 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Ferrule sizing .125-.141=9/64.142-.156=10/64.157-.172=11/64.173-.187=12/64.188- .203=13/64.204-.219=14/64.220-.234=15/64.235-.250=16/64.251- .265=17/64.266-.281=18/64.282-.297=19/64 Patrick----------From: Robert Clarke[SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Monday, August 25, 1997 7:32 AM Subject: Re: Ferrule sizing Sir Daryl gave a nice tip a few months back about measuring the sizewithyour micrometer (in decimal inches) and then mutiplying by 64 to getthe #of 64ths. It works really well. REC sells what look to be topqualityferrules. There web address is : http://www.flyfishers.com/rec/you might start there. What say ye, Sir Daryl? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.eduhttp://www.eou.edu/fao/fish.htm ----------From: Greg Kuntz Subject: Ferrule sizingDate: Monday, August 25, 1997 5:23 AM I have been refurbishing old cane blanks (usually without ferrules)orrods that show some promise, with encouraging results. My biggestdifficulty, however, has been in selecting and sizing ferrules. Cananyone give me any advice on how to select sizes? Am I better tofitthe smaller upper section and machine the lower section to fit (andwould this affect the power fibers), fit the lower section and buildupthe smaller upper section, or to split the difference between both?Sofar, I've selected ferrules that seemed to minimize the amount ofworkneeded for both pieces, and have had a very accomodating fly shopdealerwho had a rather good selection of ferrules and let me fit them.I'dlike to be able to mail order and save some money, but I've got thefeeling that I'd either be returning a lot, or ordering a lot morethanI'd really need--The accomodating fly shop dealer is charging topdollar bythe fact that some of these rods may have had a little shorteningworkdone on them, and there may be a big diference between sections. Isthere also a rule of thumb to follow in looking at an old blank inmeasuring diameter differences between the top of a lower sectionandthe base of the next section up? Any advice, as well as leads on ferrule sources, would be a greathelp.Contact me off list if you'd like. Thanks, Greg Kuntz from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Aug 25 10:14:20 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule sizing In a message dated 97-08-25 10:33:54 EDT, you write: What say ye, Sir Daryl? I've never run across the problem Greg was asking about(two different sizes across the ferrule), but in thinkingabout it, I would pretty much do what he is doing. I mighttend to try and preserve the power fibers on the large side,but building up the small side too much might make itlook a bit odd. Sir Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Aug 25 10:25:19 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule sizing In a message dated 97-08-25 10:45:37 EDT, you write: .125-.141=9/64.142-.156=10/64.157-.172=11/64.173-.187=12/64etc. This table is not bad, but tends to be a little on the loosefit side. My method is to take the caliper measurementand mulitipy it by 64. For example take the .157 listedas a 11/64 ferrule in the table. .157 x 64 = 10.05. I wouldtend to buy a 10/64 and turn the bamboo down a bit tofit the ferrule. I go to the larger ferrule at the halfway mark.10.50 would be where I go to an 11/64. Sri Darryl from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Mon Aug 25 11:02:29 1997 Subject: Re: Cork rings needed RO>Hi Don, RO>You can get such cork rings from pharmaceutical products supplyer.RO>Cross cut corks are usually used for plug of cmemical glass containers. RO>Minoru Nakayama I'm in the process of searching out local suppliers - thanks all. Too bad wine bottles don't have larger necks, I'd have no shortage ofcorks to use. Don Burns from tlongair@telusplanet.net Mon Aug 25 13:44:23 1997 with ESMTP id ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:43:46 -0600 Subject: The video I am new to the list, gradually collecting materials and yes, the bestquality tools in my budget. I have read the bibles and now wouldlike to see the video by Wayne Cattanach. I have been having troubleslocating it, however. The rodmakers page lists a source The AnglersArt, unfortunately the 1-800 # cannot be accessed from Canada. Doesanyone have a phone number for these folks or perhaps another source from which to order the video. Thanks. Crowsnest river, Alberta will have to put up with my plastic pole.Terry LongairLethbridge, Alberta. from davej@boss.com Mon Aug 25 14:11:14 1997 MAA21324 for ; Mon,25 Aug 1997 12:03:34 -0700 smap (V1.3) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/950213.SGI.WKH.970527) via SMTP id MAA28002 for; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:06:28 -0700 Subject: Re: The video Terry: You can contact Wayne Cattanach directly at waynecatt@aol.com to orderhisvideo. Enjoy! Dave Jonesdavej@boss.com I am new to the list, gradually collecting materials and yes, the bestquality tools in my budget. I have read the bibles and now wouldlike to see the video by Wayne Cattanach. I have been having troubleslocating it, however. The rodmakers page lists a source The AnglersArt, unfortunately the 1-800 # cannot be accessed from Canada. Doesanyone have a phone number for these folks or perhaps another source from which to order the video. Thanks. Crowsnest river, Alberta will have to put up with my plastic pole.Terry LongairLethbridge, Alberta. from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Mon Aug 25 14:12:24 1997 MAA26177 for ; Mon, 25 Aug 1997 12:11:09 R8.00.00) Subject: Re:The video Try Bob Marriott's. He is listed on the Rod Makers Page. I was in thereabouta week ago and he had 2 copies. MC from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Aug 25 15:37:55 1997 Subject: Grayrock weekend Well it's been another fishing weekend - no wonder the house is fallingdown. It seems that our listserve guru - aka Mike Biondo - purchased ayearlyfishing license when he was here in june and with frugality in mind hedecided to get a few more hours for his money. Also joining our party offivewere Miles & Cheryl Tiernan and our daughter Lyndi.Not to embarass any individuals BUT - there was a decent fish hooked inalittle back water cut of the upper Manistee. However the fishing personhadhad a long day of setting hooks and had fatiqued somewhat. So whenMisterBrook Trout hit there was little strength left. Well at the boat the fish dida self release just as camera was being raised to capture the moment ofthistrophy fish. Perhaps some of the blame for the incident could rest here. Idon't own a net - or better stated I haven't gotten the ones I do own fromthe Woodchuck - Anyway Mister Brook Trout - who would have beenreleasedanyway - escaped measurement - estimates range for 12" to 15" - whichwouldbe the size of the trout illustrated by Larry Cory on the Makers Rod raffletickets.On the new fly pattern front - Sam with his concern for being currentwith the time and knowing of the incest and inbreeding of certain localshasfashioned a pattern using portions of a latex condom - there is now the"Safe Hex"Well all in all it was another fine weekend in Grayrock - caught sometrout - picked some wild berries - lost some sleep - attended theriverboatregatta - got pictures of the new shop pet ( otter pup ) - life is good. Wayne from jdonovan@csn.net Mon Aug 25 16:18:52 1997 Subject: Re: Need Help: Refinishing Cork Handles.... Lewis et al, I have successfully used No. 206 Light Birch-colored Color Putty(manufactured by Color Putty Co., Monroe, WI) to fill the cracks on manyof my flyrod cork handles. Use the "water born" version with the black &blue label on the jar. Call 608-325-6033 for name of a local dealer. Trondak, Inc.). Good luck,Jerry DonovanLittleton, CO from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Aug 25 16:45:16 1997 (205.236.248.114) Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures Ian Kearney wrote: At 12:04 PM 24/08/97 -0400, you wrote:TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 8/23/97 9:51:27 PM, you wrote: moisture in timber can be a problem and drying of timber is acomplexprocess that cannot be done quickly without creating problems. Ian - Thanks for the input, but what Terry and I were discussing isasomewhat different thing. We are starting with material that isalready welldried, probably into the 10-12 percent area. What we are doing is a heattreatment that stiffens the bamboo further. As to the exactmechanismthatcauses this or the best way to do it, lets just say that anyattempttodiscuss this area usually leads off into Voodoo, Alchemy, andaccusations ofDevil Worship and leave it at that. :-) -- Tom Tom,a 'well dried' piece of cane from say a basement workshop on a Julydayin Atlanta is a not quite as well dried as a piece of cane stored inabarn in New Mexico.Is a well dried piece of cane well dried enough for flyrods? I do not think so.TerryTerry I do not particually wish to further extend this discussion as I tendtoagree with Tom's comments as where it leads . However ....Any timber will change its moisture content to match the moisturecontent ofthe surrounding atmosphere .( not the relative humidity ) If it movesitsmoisture content up it will swell and vice versa if its moisturecontentdecreases . most of the movement will be in diameter rather then inlengthhence my link to ferrul fitting . I saw a note in a relativelyreputablejournal suggesting that 6% might be appropriate for Arizona and 12% normal temperate climate . ( shall we say 25% for England in myexperience ) regardsIankIan Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374RichmondNew Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Ian,up where I come from the relative humidity IS the surrounding air and isexpressed as a pecentage and indicates the dampness of the air. Lumbertakes on and gives off moisture trying to keep an Equilibrium moisturecontent. This is also expressed as a pecentage. A length of machined wood, or bamboo will only stay straight as long asthe miosture content does not shift from the moisure content it wasmachined at( equilibrium moisture content) . A rod section that contains too much moisture will end up loose afterequilibrium moisture content is reached, the reverse is possible with atoo dry section. Ancient cultures used this phenomenon to split rock.Dry wood was split and rammed into the cracks or holes and thensoaked. Drying of timber does not have to be a long drawn out proccess for forthose that do not count board feet. Wood turners dry blanks in theirwives microwave ovens . Bamboo does not split if dried fast, rememberwesplit it first. You must remember that we are building fly rods, not furniture. Bamboois not Wood, nothing like wood. It does behave in the same mannerregarding hygroscopicity but that is about all.I think that rodmakers must look at bamboo flyrods as completelydifferent animals than wooden furniture and start experimenting. I havecooked bamboo in a vacuum until almost black and it was still lively. Do not worry about further extending the discussion Ian, there seems tobe little else going on on the list. Terry from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Aug 25 19:00:45 1997 Subject: Re: The video The Anglers Art phone 717-243-9721; fax 717-243-8603. Mark Cole from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Aug 25 19:17:50 1997 Tue, 26 Aug 1997 08:17:17 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures On Mon, 25 Aug 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: /****************** snip ************************************/was failing. What happened was the ferrule pulled apart! The barrelpulled off the tube. My other hobby is jewelry making, so I amthinking of trying to resolder it myself, but if I botch the job I'm out$40. Probably the best thing to do is return it. So how hard is it to make ferrules yourself? I think I recall ourAustralian friend doing it about a year ago. Sir Darryl It's not hard, just time consuming as each one takes about an hr to make if you turn them from solid rod as I do.If you want to know how I make them (and I'm open to suggestions on how to improve the technique) I've writen how in my home page. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Aug 25 22:56:53 1997 Subject: Re: depth gauge The original depth gauge I used was a Central used to time 2 cycleengines combines with a plywood block. But in assembling further units inrecent years a good unit can be had for $20 or so with the following: A Enco 605 - 4070 gauge - the last I bought was $11 ish - this iscombined with a alum block 1" x 1 1/2" x 2" - the block has a hole firstdrilled to 5/16" and then followed by a 3/8" hole 3/4 of the depth of theblock - the gauge is set in the hole and is secured with epoxy glue at uppersurface. The only point that you want to use is the Starret #6632/6 for acost of $3.10 - the others aren't a true 60 degrees. The hole in the alum block can be drilled with a drill press or dowelingjig - I wouldn't try freehanding it - the size of the block is open - butmake sure it is heavy enough to hold the gauge in place with just itsweight.I would order a couple of points - the very point can be biffed easilyand cause problems with not geting the dimensions that the gauge sets theforms at.The guage from Enco is made in China and I feel it is good enough toworkto the nearest .001" - the ones I got were very smooth operating and haveworked well for several years - Caution - no depth gauge bounces well -sowhen you set it down put it towards the back of your work bench. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Aug 25 22:57:08 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Failures The glue failure of ferrules can be caused by a couple things. The firstis the lack of sufficient glue - the glue needs to ooz out when the partsareseated. I got a vibrator from a dentist friend to help sonic seat the ferruleand bamboo. Too much downward pressure can blow out the moisture plug.Alsowhen you are waiting for the glue to cure make sure that the rod sectionisupright so that the glue will settle into the ferrule. A substitue would beapad sander (tip by John Z).Second - the flux used for soft silver soldier becomes powdery whenheated - before mounting the ferrules clean out the socket with a coursersteel wool noodle - this will remove the powder and ad 'tooth' to thenicklesilver.In the past the original Super Z had a bad habit of coming apart - itseems that as Rodon fell on economic hard times the quality of theirproductgot worse - When Cortland bought them out there were few experiencedmakersthat would touch them - practically all were using Super Swiss instead - Ihave never heard of a soldier failure on the Super Swiss but know of manywith the Super Z's. Hopefully Cortland has resolved this problem in thelateryears. Wayne from g0901@edu.otaru-uc.ac.jp Mon Aug 25 23:29:34 1997 ESMTP id NAA03945; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 13:24:29 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Japanese Translation for W. Cattanach's Book Dear Wayne, I know this thread is a bit old, but reading through the archives, I hope my$0.02 may be helpful. As a research student here in Japan, I took the liberty of showing myroommateWayne's book on rodmaking (roommate is a Phd student in Japaneseliterature.) He said it would take about an hour per page to translate, and another halfhourto hour per page to edit nicely ... and that it would be best if a Japaneseperson who is fluent in English translated it since they would know moretermsand idioms which would be helpful in making the technical language alittleelegant. In Japan, one can get a translator for about Yen 8,000 per hour(professional) and probably half to two-thirds that for a Phd/graduatestudent inliterature at the university. Cheers, Christian from lcramond@olis.net.au Tue Aug 26 08:01:52 1997 olis.olis.net.au (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id WAA13866 for; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 22:31:42 +0930 Subject: Re: The video HiTerry, That phone no. for Anglers Art you wanted is 717 243 9721 9OutsideU.S.). They list Wayne's video at $50 for three and a halfhours. Regards, Lee Cramond, Littlehampton, SouthAustralia. Terry Longair wrote: I am new to the list, gradually collecting materials and yes, the bestquality tools in my budget. I have read the bibles and now wouldlike to see the video by Wayne Cattanach. I have been having troubleslocating it, however. The rodmakers page lists a source The AnglersArt, unfortunately the 1-800 # cannot be accessed from Canada. Doesanyone have a phone number for these folks or perhaps another source from which to order the video. Thanks. Crowsnest river, Alberta will have to put up with my plastic pole.Terry LongairLethbridge, Alberta. from penr0295@uidaho.edu Tue Aug 26 08:52:22 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id GAA09345 for ; doing -bs Subject: Cane building site While making my first cane rod I took a few photos of the process to putup on a rod building page at my website. The site itself is for other beginners. It is at:http://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/bamboo.htmImages will probably be added/replaced in recent weeks as I fine tunethings. Please feel free to send any suggestions regarding improvements Icould make. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from jdonovan@csn.net Tue Aug 26 09:52:55 1997 Subject: Re: Bags and Tubes Mark, During last year's Sportsmen's Expo in Denver, I visited a booth for a local company that makes rod bags. The quality appeared to be excellent,and the company will make any size on special order and mail the bag to the customer. Price is approx $7, plus shipping. If interested, contact Colorado Fishing Stuff, Aurora, CO, 303-337-5278. Ask for Paul or Harlene Seipel, owners. PS: Since the Show, I have seen this company's rod bags in just about every FF shop in the Denver area. I figure this to be a good sign. Regards, Jerry DonovanLittleton, CO from ishikawa@stout.atd.ucar.edu Tue Aug 26 11:52:52 1997 Central Post Office 03/11/93) NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) 04/19/90) Subject: Re: Japanese Translation for W. Cattanach's Book Hi Christian, Congratulations!!! and good luck for you!!! I was in Japan in 92 atShizuoka University.BTW. Wayne, In respect to your book I don't think is a good idea to translate it as it is (I have the 92's edition, perhaps the last published) - probably you have some improvements to add. Personally I'm used toread technical and scientific papers and I felt the need of a moreorganized sequence of the chapters and it would be good to have thepictures numbered and commented (pictures and tables need to have concise and clear comments). Just my personal opinion. I'm sorry toput this comment in the list, but my last two messages about thecourse didn't reach you. I would like to be clear that I'm not in doubt you are a good rodmaker (I was diing to get your course), but need some help to become a good writer. The life teaches us and friends help. Cordially,Sergio Hiroshi IshikawaNCAR-UCARBoulder-CO On Tue, 26 Aug 1997, Christian Thalacker wrote: Dear Wayne, I know this thread is a bit old, but reading through the archives, I hopemy$0.02 may be helpful. As a research student here in Japan, I took the liberty of showing myroommateWayne's book on rodmaking (roommate is a Phd student in Japaneseliterature.) He said it would take about an hour per page to translate, and anotherhalf hourto hour per page to edit nicely ... and that it would be best if a Japaneseperson who is fluent in English translated it since they would know moretermsand idioms which would be helpful in making the technical language alittleelegant. In Japan, one can get a translator for about Yen 8,000 per hour(professional) and probably half to two-thirds that for a Phd/graduatestudent inliterature at the university. Cheers, Christian from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Tue Aug 26 12:01:54 1997 Subject: Re: The video Cabela's sells the book and video. Sorry all I have is the USA 800 #. Don Burns from cmax@jymis.com Tue Aug 26 12:06:37 1997 Subject: Re: Bags and Tubes Jerry Donovan wrote: Mark, During last year's Sportsmen's Expo in Denver, I visited a booth for alocal company that makes rod bags. The quality appeared to be excellent,andthe company will make any size on special order and mail the bag to thecustomer. Price is approx $7, plus shipping. If interested, contact Colorado Fishing Stuff, Aurora, CO, 303-337-5278.Ask for Paul or Harlene Seipel, owners. PS: Since the Show, I have seen this company's rod bags in just aboutevery FF shop in the Denver area. I figure this to be a good sign. Regards, Jerry DonovanLittleton, COMark,Just noticed Jerrys response. Forgive me if the following info is of nointrest to you.A good friend of mine, a furniture maker by trade, has made severaloctagonal, exotic wood cases for me. The last time I spoke with him, hehad plans to start making them on a limited basis. They are absolutlybeautiful! He is in the process of moving to Maine, so I am not sure asto when he will start taking orders again. In the mean time, If you oranyone else on the list might be interested in one of his cases, I willtrack him down and get you some pricing and options info. Hope I could help.Chris Maxfield from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Aug 26 12:29:10 1997 8.6/SMI-SVR4) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: oven Does anybody have a source for a oven shell? I attempted to make onehere in Seattle and all I could find was duct work 4 feet long that onehas to rivet extra length to in order for it to reach the required 6foot on length, needless to say that becomes an exercise in futility asthe rivet heads interfere with everything sliding together and gettingit to line up was a joke. Patrick from nschaan@netnet.net Tue Aug 26 12:59:12 1997 Subject: Cane!! Help Does anyone know of where I can get some decent quality cane for myfirst rod. I live in the Green Bay, WI area. I have tried the addresson the rodbuilders WWW site and they replied that all of their cane hasmold damage. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Nathan Schaan from devino@inlink.com Tue Aug 26 13:14:24 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id NAA26196 for Subject: Re: Bags and Tubes At 01:13 AM 8/27/97 -0700, Chris Maxfield wrote: A good friend of mine, a furniture maker by trade, has made severaloctagonal, exotic wood cases for me. Thanks a bunch Chris. These rods are your basic blue collar productioncane and don't deserve treatment anywhere near that good. I'll save yourpost for the future. I have tubes coming from REC but I'm going to checkout those Colorado bags JerryD talked about. -=Mark=-Devino's Websitehttp://www.inlink.com/~devino from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Aug 26 13:25:14 1997 Subject: Re: Cane building site Thomas Penrose wrote: While making my first cane rod I took a few photos of the process toputup on a rod building page at my website. The site itself is forother beginners. It is at:http://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/bamboo.htmImages will probably be added/replaced in recent weeks as I fine tunethings. Please feel free to send any suggestions regardingimprovements Icould make. Thomas PenroseBend, OR Tom: Very nice work on the cane rod building portion of your web site. I amcurious though why anyone who has such a phenomenal talent as an artisteven bothers to engage in such a pedestrian pursuit as rod building. Iguess I really know, as I have been doing it for nearly thirty years.Again congratulations. I have you bookmarked. Ralph Moon from jbr842@airmail.net Tue Aug 26 13:46:41 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.181) with smtp for Subject: Re: Cane building site Thomas Penrose wrote: While making my first cane rod I took a few photos of the process to putup on a rod building page at my website. The site itself is forother beginners. It is at:http://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/bamboo.htmImages will probably be added/replaced in recent weeks as I fine tunethings. Please feel free to send any suggestions regarding improvementsIcould make. Thomas PenroseBend, OR Thomas, All I can say is, WOW!!!!Please e-mail me off list re: your paintings and rods. Please forgive meif you don't get an immediate reply as I am leaving for two weeks inColorado on thursday. Thanks,Jim Bryan from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Aug 26 14:14:49 1997 Subject: Re: Cane building site Thomas, I think the site is great. I am just getting my tools puttogether. As a fllow Oregonian, maybe you'd let me look at your setupsometime. Again, great sight. Robert ClarkeLa Grande, ORrclarke@eou.edu(541)962- 3551http://www.eou.edu/fao/fish.htm ----------From: Thomas Penrose Subject: Cane building siteDate: Tuesday, August 26, 1997 6:52 AM While making my first cane rod I took a few photos of the process to putup on a rod building page at my website. The site itself is for other beginners. It is at:http://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/bamboo.htmImages will probably be added/replaced in recent weeks as I fine tunethings. Please feel free to send any suggestions regarding improvementsIcould make. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from penr0295@uidaho.edu Tue Aug 26 16:36:09 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id OAA01775 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Cane building site Incidentally, I redid many of the images on this site this afternoo, andadded more. I experienced some weird FTP glitches, and while everythingseems to be working fine now, I hope it holds together for a while. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from penr0295@uidaho.edu Tue Aug 26 16:47:28 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id OAA02325 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Cane building site I tried sending this earlier, but I do not think it went through: I redid many of the images at this site this afternoon. Adding some, andreplacing others. A lot of them had been a bit too dark. I experiencedsome weird FTP difficulties, and while the site seems fine now, I hope ithold together for the time being. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from GJFLYFSH@UWYO.EDU Tue Aug 26 18:22:55 1997 #19314)with ESMTP id forRodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 26 Aug 1997 17:21:55 MDT #19314) Rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: rod building site TomJust visited your rod building page very nicely done.jerry wy from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Aug 26 19:17:05 1997 Subject: Re: Japanese Translation for W. Cattanach's Book Christian -Starting last winter I realized that there was an interest in flyfishingin Japan. In doing some investigation I found that several hundred booksandvideos have ended up there. I also have contacts that are fluent in bothlanguages and often do translation. The crystal ball question was (andperhaps is) is there enough interest to make it worth while.Currently the decision is that it isn't - this past winter I hadbreakfast with Gary La Fontaine and even with the greater interest in flytying he feels that the additional effort wouldn't pay off. Gary's books outsell mine 4 - 5 to one. Gary is his own publisher (Graycliff) as I am so wewere viewing the interest from the same margins.A second consideration is that I have added greatly to the text - manyof the posts of the past couple years are thoughts that came from thequestions asked in the classes that I have taught and from closer contactwith other makers. AND there are other books coming out in the very nearfuture. The one I am looking forward to is by Jack Howell - published byPruett. I can remember the -28 degree night (Jack is form New Mexico - hethought that it was real cold) that Jack and I had dinner together here inGrand Rapids. Out of those couple of nights I encouraged Jack to write andIthink it will be an excellent work.This may sound like a cop out but I am waiting to see how the intereststands up over the next year to make a decision about releasing a revision.Ihave made a promise to a special friend that the revision will be of thecaliber of the Garrison book or better. He is in his eighties and I wouldlike him to see the finished work - although I have sent him copies of theupdates. Understand - the longer I wait the more polished. At the time oftherevision then the translation would be appropiate. The video wouldprobablysee a revision as well. Thus a major undertaking.Thank for the informationWayne from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Aug 27 03:54:45 1997 Wed, 27 Aug 1997 16:53:48 +0800 (WST) Subject: landing net Some time back I saw a posting about somebody making nets for landingnets.Can anybody help out with who this was and where I can contact him? As per always, thanks in advance. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Wed Aug 27 09:48:26 1997 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:48:22 -0400 Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:48:22 -0400 Wed, 27 Aug 1997 10:48:22 -0400 Subject: Beveler Does anyone know of any sources for power bevelers? * John A. Whitaker* NYSDOH AIDS Institute: 372 Corning Tower* E-Mail: jaw12@health.state.ny.us* (518) 486-1383 from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Aug 27 10:36:37 1997 mail.gwi.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA14456 for Subject: Re: oven Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Does anybody have a source for a oven shell? I attempted to make onehere in Seattle and all I could find was duct work 4 feet long thatonehas to rivet extra length to in order for it to reach the required 6foot on length, needless to say that becomes an exercise in futilityasthe rivet heads interfere with everything sliding together and getting it to line up was a joke. Patrick A sheet metal shop should be able to make up the duct work, absentrivets. from kanarekorigami@hotmail.com Wed Aug 27 13:59:46 1997 Wed, 27 Aug 1997 11:59:13 PDT I realize that most cannot afford to purchase 100 cork rings at a time; so I will sell AAA+ cork for $1.50 each per. 30 at a time. Mike Kanarek 914-339- 1795 between 7-9 PM est. for more details ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from sats@gte.net Wed Aug 27 20:17:58 1997 Subject: Re: Bags and Tubes Hi,Generally sewing machines only require cleaning and oiling and thebobbin tension checked. I suggest you check these out and than sign upon the dressmakers list! My wife is not interested either in helping me, she does pickup afterme though.Terry Or find a neighbor who sews, and will do it for cheep. TerrySafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Wed Aug 27 20:18:09 1997 Subject: Re: Changing the action of a finished rod. While we are on the subject of tapers, I noticed that the rodthat I sanded the "hinge" into feels a bit heavier now. I believethe reason for this because the overall action is a bit slower.It seems to me that slower rods feel heavier. It must be theleverage of the rod against your hand, or perhaps the lengthof time you are pushing against the rod when changing fromfore to back cast and vice versa that translates into a feelingof heaviness. Sir D. S.D. I'd also suggest that the change of C.G. you made to the rod adds to thefeeling. You've probably moved the Center of Gravity a bit to the tip. Thiswould make the rod "feel" heaver. Most dry fly rods have faster actions,which usually means lighter tips vs. heavier butts. (relative that is.) Wetflyrods often have tapers that are more modest, moving the C.G. up the rod. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from g0901@edu.otaru-uc.ac.jp Wed Aug 27 23:58:39 1997 ESMTP id NAA09821 for ; Thu, 28 Aug 199713:58:23 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Japanese Translation for W. Cattanach's Book Thursday, 28th August 1997 Dear Wayne, You may or may not be right (probably are) in saying that there isn'tenoughinterest in a Japanese translation for the book. To give you a gauge of the local scene, I know of a few professionalrodmakersworking in Honshu and here in Hokkaido... the most established isone-man/craftsman (I believe) is a fellow named Hirao-san (put out hisshinglearound 1983 in Honshu) - his early rods second-hand run about US $800,new aboutUS $1,300; another famous (in Japan) rodmaker, Mutaro- san (sp.?) inHokkaido.They haven't put out any books or videos in the local language - at leastnot inthe two shops I have my fly tying club classes in. However, I have seen your book in the shop here as well as the video inEnglish(at least no pirated versions). In the fly fishing magazine (Japaneselanguage),there usually is an advertisement for "do it yourself" cane kit (completewithtwo planes, the forms, the cane, tools) for about $500. I don't know if itisselling well or not or if the quality of the tools/cane is high. However, the Japanese are pretty crazy collectors, especially for foreigngoodsmanufactured by "famous" craftsmen. If you are thinking that there is notenoughinterest for a Japanese version of the book/video, maybe a trip here -visitingthe major FF shops and bringing a few samples - would change your mind. Rob W.Summers of Traverse City was recently profiled in a major FF magazinehere(published quarterly with high res pictures and glossy pages - still a stealatjust $8 a copy), and I am sure he will enjoy a bump in his orders. My $0.02. Cheers, Christian WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Christian -Starting last winter I realized that there was an interest in flyfishingin Japan. In doing some investigation I found that several hundred booksandvideos have ended up there. I also have contacts that are fluent in bothlanguages and often do translation. The crystal ball question was (andperhaps is) is there enough interest to make it worth while.Currently the decision is that it isn't - this past winter I hadbreakfast with Gary La Fontaine and even with the greater interest in flytying he feels that the additional effort wouldn't pay off. Gary's booksoutsell mine 4 - 5 to one. Gary is his own publisher (Graycliff) as I am sowewere viewing the interest from the same margins.A second consideration is that I have added greatly to the text - manyof the posts of the past couple years are thoughts that came from thequestions asked in the classes that I have taught and from closer contactwith other makers. AND there are other books coming out in the very nearfuture. The one I am looking forward to is by Jack Howell - published byPruett. I can remember the -28 degree night (Jack is form New Mexico -hethought that it was real cold) that Jack and I had dinner together here inGrand Rapids. Out of those couple of nights I encouraged Jack to writeand Ithink it will be an excellent work.This may sound like a cop out but I am waiting to see how the intereststands up over the next year to make a decision about releasing arevision. Ihave made a promise to a special friend that the revision will be of thecaliber of the Garrison book or better. He is in his eighties and I wouldlike him to see the finished work - although I have sent him copies oftheupdates. Understand - the longer I wait the more polished. At the time oftherevision then the translation would be appropiate. The video wouldprobablysee a revision as well. Thus a major undertaking.Thank for the informationWayne from rmoon@dns.ida.net Thu Aug 28 11:25:25 1997 Subject: Re: Japanese Translation for W. Cattanach's Book Christian Thalacker wrote: Thursday, 28th August 1997 Dear Wayne, You may or may not be right (probably are) in saying that there isn'tenoughinterest in a Japanese translation for the book. To give you a gauge of the local scene, I know of a few professionalrodmakersworking in Honshu and here in Hokkaido... the most established isone-man/craftsman (I believe) is a fellow named Hirao-san (put out hisshinglearound 1983 in Honshu) - his early rods second-hand run about US $800,new aboutUS $1,300; another famous (in Japan) rodmaker, Mutaro- san (sp.?) inHokkaido.They haven't put out any books or videos in the local language - atleast not inthe two shops I have my fly tying club classes in. However, I have seen your book in the shop here as well as the videoin English(at least no pirated versions). In the fly fishing magazine (Japaneselanguage),there usually is an advertisement for "do it yourself" cane kit(complete withtwo planes, the forms, the cane, tools) for about $500. I don't knowif it isselling well or not or if the quality of the tools/cane is high. However, the Japanese are pretty crazy collectors, especially forforeign goodsmanufactured by "famous" craftsmen. If you are thinking that there isnot enoughinterest for a Japanese version of the book/video, maybe a trip here -visitingthe major FF shops and bringing a few samples - would change yourmind. Rob W.Summers of Traverse City was recently profiled in a major FF magazinehere(published quarterly with high res pictures and glossy pages - still asteal atjust $8 a copy), and I am sure he will enjoy a bump in his orders. My $0.02. Cheers, Christian WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: Christian -Starting last winter I realized that there was an interest inflyfishingin Japan. In doing some investigation I found that several hundredbooks andvideos have ended up there. I also have contacts that are fluent inbothlanguages and often do translation. The crystal ball question was(andperhaps is) is there enough interest to make it worth while.Currently the decision is that it isn't - this past winter Ihadbreakfast with Gary La Fontaine and even with the greater interestin flytying he feels that the additional effort wouldn't pay off. Gary'sbooks outsell mine 4 - 5 to one. Gary is his own publisher (Graycliff) as Iam so wewere viewing the interest from the same margins.A second consideration is that I have added greatly to the text- manyof the posts of the past couple years are thoughts that came fromthequestions asked in the classes that I have taught and from closercontactwith other makers. AND there are other books coming out in the verynearfuture. The one I am looking forward to is by Jack Howell - published byPruett. I can remember the -28 degree night (Jack is form New Mexico- hethought that it was real cold) that Jack and I had dinner togetherhere inGrand Rapids. Out of those couple of nights I encouraged Jack towrite and Ithink it will be an excellent work.This may sound like a cop out but I am waiting to see how theintereststands up over the next year to make a decision about releasing arevision. Ihave made a promise to a special friend that the revision will be ofthecaliber of the Garrison book or better. He is in his eighties and Iwouldlike him to see the finished work - although I have sent him copiesof theupdates. Understand - the longer I wait the more polished. At thetime of therevision then the translation would be appropiate. The video wouldprobablysee a revision as well. Thus a major undertaking.Thank for the informationWayne There is a superb builder named Sieji (sp?) Urano. I think he is inTokyo. He is using a Japanese bamboo, but was unwilling to divulge thename or species. The cane is a beautiful mellow ivory color and heclaims that it has been tested by the Univ. of Tokyo and that it issuperior to Tonkin. His handle and reel seat on the rod I saw were of abeautifully figured Japanese Chestnut. He was inspired by and usesGarrison techniques. Ralph Moon from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Thu Aug 28 13:43:51 1997 CDT Subject: Signature flat? I have been using the first flat to the left of the top flat(top flat being the flat opposite the guides) as a thesignature flat. I got to wondering if there exists an acceptedstandard as to what flat normally get the signature? Likewise, is there a standard for numbering the flats? Mike - got a patch for that flat - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Aug 28 16:02:21 1997 Subject: Ferrules To the list, 8/27/97Have built many rods over the last thirty years using contact cement forferrule cement. One of my older rods, used hard in Montana, was reportedthis summer to have a loose ferrule, the first such incident. Listening tothe discussion on the list, think I'll stay with what I use. Bill from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Aug 28 21:47:17 1997 (205.236.249.62) Subject: Re: Ferrules Bill Fink wrote: To the list, 8/27/97Have built many rods over the last thirty years using contact cementforferrule cement. One of my older rods, used hard in Montana, wasreportedthis summer to have a loose ferrule, the first such incident.Listening tothe discussion on the list, think I'll stay with what I use. Bill Bill,Exactly, a big tub of contact cement costs nothing, it does not set rockhard so it can 'move' with the cane.I am afraid that 'expensive' is best in our culture, and new just hasto be better. One has to be very careful about changing tried and testedcompounds. I once tried the West epoxy system to glue a blank up and when I came tostraighten a tip section up with heat it just came appart. The technicaldept. at West said that the adhesive was not heat proof I put the remaining tip and butt section in a corner and forgot aboutthem. After a clean up I found them. It had been a couple of years. Iflexed the tip section, as you do, and it just delaminated, the buttsection also. I am glad that I did not put any rods on the market usingepoxy adhesive! Terry from nakayama@katri.kajima.co.jp Thu Aug 28 22:43:26 1997 (8.8.5+2.7Wbeta5/3.4W4) with ESMTP id MAA19831 for; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 12:43:09 +0900 (JST) SMTP id MAA00207 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 199712:43:08 +0900 (JST) katrigw.katri.kajima.co.jp (8.6.11+2.4W/3.4W3) with SMTP id MAA22188 Subject: Re: Re Japanese Translation for W. Cattanach's Book Christian, I am surprised to read your list mail. Up to now, I only know one listmember who is in Japan. Whose name is REBECCA L. HOLMES living inOkinawa.You are living in Hokkaido, aren't you?There are several bamboo rod making school that are held in off fishingseason in Japan. The oldest one is Hirata school which is supported byTsuruya, established FF tackle shop in Tokyo. I think Mr. Hirata is themost experienced rod builder in Japan . Mr. Hirata uses his written text from 8 years ago . More than 80 students have his text. I am also haveone.I heard Mr. Hirao and Mr. Mochizuki living in Kyusyu also have their class. Minoru NakayamaTokyo, Japan At 2:03 PM 97.8.28, Christian Thalacker wrote:Thursday, 28th August 1997 Dear Wayne, You may or may not be right (probably are) in saying that there isn'tenoughinterest in a Japanese translation for the book. To give you a gauge of the local scene, I know of a few professionalrodmakersworking in Honshu and here in Hokkaido... the most established isone-man/craftsman (I believe) is a fellow named Hirao-san (put out hisshinglearound 1983 in Honshu) - his early rods second-hand run about US $800,new aboutUS $1,300; another famous (in Japan) rodmaker, Mutaro- san (sp.?) inHokkaido.They haven't put out any books or videos in the local language - at leastnot inthe two shops I have my fly tying club classes in. However, I have seen your book in the shop here as well as the video inEnglish(at least no pirated versions). In the fly fishing magazine (Japaneselanguage),there usually is an advertisement for "do it yourself" cane kit(complete withtwo planes, the forms, the cane, tools) for about $500. I don't know if itisselling well or not or if the quality of the tools/cane is high. However, the Japanese are pretty crazy collectors, especially for foreigngoodsmanufactured by "famous" craftsmen. If you are thinking that there isnot enoughinterest for a Japanese version of the book/video, maybe a trip here -visitingthe major FF shops and bringing a few samples - would change your mind.Rob W.Summers of Traverse City was recently profiled in a major FF magazinehere(published quarterly with high res pictures and glossy pages - still asteal atjust $8 a copy), and I am sure he will enjoy a bump in his orders. My $0.02. Cheers, Christian from g0901@edu.otaru-uc.ac.jp Thu Aug 28 23:03:31 1997 ESMTP id NAA12687 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 199713:03:02 +0900 (JST) Subject: Re: Japanese Translation for W. Cattanach's Book Dear Ralph, I am intrigued ... you wouldn't happen to have a contact address? Cheers, Christian Ralph W Moon wrote: There is a superb builder named Sieji (sp?) Urano. I think he is inTokyo. He is using a Japanese bamboo, but was unwilling to divulge thename or species. The cane is a beautiful mellow ivory color and heclaims that it has been tested by the Univ. of Tokyo and that it issuperior to Tonkin. His handle and reel seat on the rod I saw were of abeautifully figured Japanese Chestnut. He was inspired by and usesGarrison techniques. Ralph Moon from ishikawa@stout.atd.ucar.edu Fri Aug 29 10:49:50 1997 Central Post Office 03/11/93) NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) 04/19/90) Subject: ROD COLOR Hi All,I had read that, less fish see you and/or your "strange" equipmentmore you can catch fish (The curtis Creek Manifesto). Does anybody have advice about the color of the bamboo rod? Are there problem in a blonde rod? related to scaring fish? I have bamboo culms that looks different in color (butt and tip section)should I flame them or use just the butt section? I'm going to move soonthen I'd like to try nodeless contruction.Any advice?Sergio from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri Aug 29 11:16:22 1997 (8.8.5) with ESMTP id LAA25877 for ; Fri, dpcs4.itg.ti.com (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id XQQPAXBJ; Fri,29 Aug 1997 11:15:48 -0600 (Central Daylight Time) Subject: re: ROD COLOR Sergio, I think the main issue is with reflectivity not color. The idea is that amattefinish like tung oil or rubbed low gloss varnish will relect less light, andreflected flashes of light can scare fish if they flash into a pool whereyou're fishing. To me, color doesn't seem to matter, because regardless of color the rodstillcasts a shadow. And until the high tech companies develop an invisiblerod, wewill continue to have that problem. I can see it now, next years marketing slogan will be "higher line speed,double lifetime warranty, and an all-new INVISIBLE graphite, only $900..." As for me, I'll just keep planin' Don D. ------------------Original text 11:08AM:Hi All,I had read that, less fish see you and/or your "strange" equipmentmore you can catch fish (The curtis Creek Manifesto). Does anybody have advice about the color of the bamboo rod? Are there problem in a blonde rod? related to scaring fish? I have bamboo culms that looks different in color (butt and tip section)should I flame them or use just the butt section? I'm going to move soonthen I'd like to try nodeless contruction.Any advice?Sergio from ishikawa@stout.atd.ucar.edu Fri Aug 29 11:42:58 1997 Central Post Office 03/11/93) NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) 04/19/90) Subject: re: ROD COLOR Hi Don,Thanks for your advice. I agree with you, the flashes will scare fishmore than the color. What you recommend to do with the bamboo culm?Should I flame? or after planing and varnishing the color will be moreclose. It's because the tip side of culm looks more green than the buttside of the culm. Will the heat treatment "darker" the culm a little?Sergio On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, Don DeLoach wrote: Sergio, I think the main issue is with reflectivity not color. The idea is that amattefinish like tung oil or rubbed low gloss varnish will relect less light, andreflected flashes of light can scare fish if they flash into a pool whereyou're fishing. To me, color doesn't seem to matter, because regardless of color the rodstillcasts a shadow. And until the high tech companies develop an invisiblerod, wewill continue to have that problem. I can see it now, next years marketing slogan will be "higher line speed,double lifetime warranty, and an all-new INVISIBLE graphite, only$900..." As for me, I'll just keep planin' Don D. ------------------Original text From: Sergio Hiroshi Ishikawa , on8/29/97 11:08AM:Hi All,I had read that, less fish see you and/or your "strange" equipmentmore you can catch fish (The curtis Creek Manifesto). Does anybody have advice about the color of the bamboo rod? Are there problem in a blonde rod? related to scaring fish? I have bamboo culms that looks different in color (butt and tip section)should I flame them or use just the butt section? I'm going to move soonthen I'd like to try nodeless contruction.Any advice?Sergio from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Aug 29 13:20:38 1997 Subject: Re: Japanese Translation for W. Cattanach's Book Christian Thalacker wrote: Dear Ralph, I am intrigued ... you wouldn't happen to have a contact address? Cheers, Christian Ralph W Moon wrote: There is a superb builder named Sieji (sp?) Urano. I think he isinTokyo. He is using a Japanese bamboo, but was unwilling to divulgethename or species. The cane is a beautiful mellow ivory color and heclaims that it has been tested by the Univ. of Tokyo and that it issuperior to Tonkin. His handle and reel seat on the rod I saw wereof abeautifully figured Japanese Chestnut. He was inspired by and uses Garrison techniques. Ralph Moon Christian. I used to have an address; I will see if I can dig it up. You shouldbe aware though that Urano and English are about on a par with Ralph andJapanese. Ralph from ghilbers@earthlink.net Fri Aug 29 14:45:25 1997 Subject: Heat Mat A week or two ago Terry Ackland mentioned that his oven was heated bytwo 1000 watt heat mats. I responded by asking more about these heatmats, but got no answer. Can anyone help me out? Gary Hilbers from devino@inlink.com Fri Aug 29 15:19:59 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id PAA00270 for Subject: African Steelcane (OLD) While out in the country I came across what looked like a VERY old rod. Itis 8 1/2 feet long, three sections, two tips. Packaged in a funny way on adoo-dad that held each rod section in it own individual compartment on along spindle. The rod had an intermediate wrap about every 1.5" of its'length. The reelseat was IN FRONT of the cork grip. Guides were tubular &flared at both ends. Tip top was some "pre-perfection" three ring thing. The only markings on the rod were the words "AFRICAN STEELCANE" on thebuttcap. Any clue what this one is? -=Mark=-Devino's Websitehttp://www.inlink.com/~devino from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Aug 29 15:40:25 1997 QAA03031 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 16:46:33-0400 Subject: Re: ROD COLOR SergioSome people have to blame something. Most fish are spooked bybody movement or "lineing them". I usually fish up stream and rod colorseemsto have no affect on the fish - I have yet to catch one with rear viewmirrors on it. Hi All,I had read that, less fish see you and/or your "strange" equipmentmore you can catch fish (The curtis Creek Manifesto). Does anybody have advice about the color of the bamboo rod? Are there problem in a blonde rod? related to scaring fish? I have bamboo culms that looks different in color (butt and tip section)should I flame them or use just the butt section? I'm going to move soonthen I'd like to try nodeless contruction.Any advice?Sergio Regards Chris from ishikawa@stout.atd.ucar.edu Fri Aug 29 15:53:48 1997 Central Post Office 03/11/93) NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) 04/19/90) Subject: Re: ROD COLOR Hi Chris,Thanks for the comments. I just had my first fly-fishing last sunday. Likeyou I tried upstream. It was great, specially considering it was my firsttime (14 between cutroat, browns and rainbow). BTW.Can you give me some advices about my culms? I have a tip section of the culm more green than the butt section, should I flame or after planningand varnishing its color will match? What you suggest?Regards,Sergio On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, Chris Bogart wrote: SergioSome people have to blame something. Most fish are spooked bybody movement or "lineing them". I usually fish up stream and rod colorseemsto have no affect on the fish - I have yet to catch one with rear viewmirrors on it. from maiello@yorku.ca Fri Aug 29 16:03:27 1997 (YvCQqKUKWc3DLqSsr4oJZXahHz18iBCx@sunspot.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.5/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA12829 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Ferrule failure I used devcon epoxy on my first rod, and had the ferrule start knockingone day after someone wanted to cast it in the middle of winter (It wasbelow freezing that day). It was fine before and durring, but we noticedit after. Switched to ferrule cement (dow corning) and stopped fishing inthe snow.Mauro from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Aug 29 16:11:25 1997 RAA03343 for ; Fri, 29 Aug 1997 17:17:32-0400 Subject: Re: ROD COLOR Sergio If a culm is greenish in color - just put it some place where it canget sunlight. I have a shed with overhang where I sun my culms for a while - it turns them a nice straw color. Even then you will have somecolor mismatches. But you will be surprised in the final rod that thecolor all seems to be the same. I see the differences when I splicenodeless - but once you scrape the enamel off the color appearsmore uniform. Flaming will cover up almost any imperfection in color and anythingyou do see is "character". Hi Chris,Thanks for the comments. I just had my first fly-fishing last sunday. Likeyou I tried upstream. It was great, specially considering it was my firsttime (14 between cutroat, browns and rainbow). BTW.Can you give me some advices about my culms? I have a tip section of the culm more green than the butt section, should I flame or after planningand varnishing its color will match? What you suggest?Regards,Sergio On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, Chris Bogart wrote: SergioSome people have to blame something. Most fish are spooked bybody movement or "lineing them". I usually fish up stream and rod colorseemsto have no affect on the fish - I have yet to catch one with rear viewmirrors on it. Regards Chris from ishikawa@stout.atd.ucar.edu Fri Aug 29 16:24:31 1997 Central Post Office 03/11/93) NCAR Mail Server 04/10/90) 04/19/90) Subject: Re: ROD COLOR Chris,Thanks for the advice!!!Sergio On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, Chris Bogart wrote: Sergio If a culm is greenish in color - just put it some place where it canget sunlight. I have a shed with overhang where I sun my culms for a while - it turns them a nice straw color. Even then you will have somecolor mismatches. But you will be surprised in the final rod that thecolor all seems to be the same. I see the differences when I splicenodeless - but once you scrape the enamel off the color appearsmore uniform. Flaming will cover up almost any imperfection in color and anythingyou do see is "character". from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Fri Aug 29 17:01:50 1997 Subject: RE:African Steelcane (OLD) RO>While out in the country I came across what looked like a VERY old rod.ItRO>is 8 1/2 feet long, three sections, two tips. Packaged in a funny way onaRO>doo-dad that held each rod section in it own individual compartment onaRO>long spindle. The rod had an intermediate wrap about every 1.5" of its'RO>length. The reelseat was IN FRONT of the cork grip. Guides were tubular&RO>flared at both ends. Tip top was some "pre- perfection" three ring thing. RO>The only markings on the rod were the words "AFRICAN STEELCANE" ontheRO>buttcap. Any clue what this one is? RO> -=Mark=-RO> Devino's WebsiteRO> http://www.inlink.com/~devino Mark, "African Steel" was a H-I rod model, there seems to be 2 differentsub- models (#2354 - red/green wraps, #2353 - Green/yellow wraps). Infois from Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" pages107-108. Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Aug 29 18:19:37 1997 Subject: Tests of Glues Over the last year I have been buying differentglues as I run across them in craft stores,hardware stores etc. and testing them. Mytest was taking two 18 inch long strips,planing a side flat on each strip ( to simulatethe way they would be glued in a rod ), andusing the glue to glue the flat sides together.After a couple days allowing them to set, Ibend the glued strip until it breaks. EpoxiesI can't tell you that one brand of epoxy is betterthan another, because they were all good. Noneof them failed, except the quick set types ( 5minute and 1 minute epoxy ), but I wouldn't usethose to glue up splines due to the short workingtime. As long as the epoxy is of the long set type,and it ranged from 30 minutes to overnight, theyheld up. Personally I would get the type that takesand hour or two to set up for the longer working time,overnight is a bit long to wait. By the way, oneof the epoxies I tested was put out by the Flexcoatpeople. It wasn't the rod wrapping epoxy, it was sold as rod repair epoxy for reel seats, handles,general repair. It held up great. Since we all already have our respective fly fishing sources Flexcoat epoxy should be readily available. White glues and their derivitivesElmers white glue worked great. Very strong bond.It's not waterproof though. All the other derivitivesof white glue - Woodworkers glue, Carpenters glueetc. All held up fine. The bamboo broke before theglue let go. One type was absolutely terrible. It wasa powder called Dap Weldwood. You have to mixwater in it to a paste consistancy and then it lookslike the darker Elmers Carpenters glue. The Dapglue had no shear strength at all. The strips came apart when they were only moderately bent. TitebondTitebond is like Elmers glue, probably the samestuff chemically. I have made a few rods usingTitebond II, a water resistant version (actuallywaterproof up to boiling temp), and it worksgreat. Polyurethane gluesSome brand names for this type of glue areExcel, Gorrila Glue, Pro Bond, Titebond nowputs out a Titebond Polyurethane glue, theyare becoming more common than they werea year ago. These are excellent glues forrodmaking. Very strong, waterproof, easilysanded, easily stained. Long working time,long setup time - plenty of time to straightenyour rod section. What would I recommend? Due to it's availibility,strength, and durability, a long setting epoxy.Second would be the polyurethane glues.I haven't had any problems with Titebond II,but I don't know about it's longevity. It's fairlynew. Well... so are the polyurethane glues,but once you work with them you will haveno doubt they will be very durable. Darryl Hayashida from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Aug 29 18:57:12 1997 Subject: Re: Tests of Glues Nice test, Sir D. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Tests of GluesDate: Friday, August 29, 1997 4:19 PM Over the last year I have been buying differentglues as I run across them in craft stores,hardware stores etc. and testing them. Mytest was taking two 18 inch long strips,planing a side flat on each strip ( to simulatethe way they would be glued in a rod ), andusing the glue to glue the flat sides together.After a couple days allowing them to set, Ibend the glued strip until it breaks. EpoxiesI can't tell you that one brand of epoxy is betterthan another, because they were all good. Noneof them failed, except the quick set types ( 5minute and 1 minute epoxy ), but I wouldn't usethose to glue up splines due to the short workingtime. As long as the epoxy is of the long set type,and it ranged from 30 minutes to overnight, theyheld up. Personally I would get the type that takesand hour or two to set up for the longer working time,overnight is a bit long to wait. By the way, oneof the epoxies I tested was put out by the Flexcoatpeople. It wasn't the rod wrapping epoxy, it was sold as rod repair epoxy for reel seats, handles,general repair. It held up great. Since we all already have our respective fly fishing sources Flexcoat epoxy should be readily available. White glues and their derivitivesElmers white glue worked great. Very strong bond.It's not waterproof though. All the other derivitivesof white glue - Woodworkers glue, Carpenters glueetc. All held up fine. The bamboo broke before theglue let go. One type was absolutely terrible. It wasa powder called Dap Weldwood. You have to mixwater in it to a paste consistancy and then it lookslike the darker Elmers Carpenters glue. The Dapglue had no shear strength at all. The strips came apart when they were only moderately bent. TitebondTitebond is like Elmers glue, probably the samestuff chemically. I have made a few rods usingTitebond II, a water resistant version (actuallywaterproof up to boiling temp), and it worksgreat. Polyurethane gluesSome brand names for this type of glue areExcel, Gorrila Glue, Pro Bond, Titebond nowputs out a Titebond Polyurethane glue, theyare becoming more common than they werea year ago. These are excellent glues forrodmaking. Very strong, waterproof, easilysanded, easily stained. Long working time,long setup time - plenty of time to straightenyour rod section. What would I recommend? Due to it's availibility,strength, and durability, a long setting epoxy.Second would be the polyurethane glues.I haven't had any problems with Titebond II,but I don't know about it's longevity. It's fairlynew. Well... so are the polyurethane glues,but once you work with them you will haveno doubt they will be very durable. Darryl Hayashida from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Aug 29 19:13:28 1997 (205.236.249.161) Subject: Re: African Steelcane (OLD) Mark Devino, St. Louis wrote: While out in the country I came across what looked like a VERY oldrod. Itis 8 1/2 feet long, three sections, two tips. Packaged in a funny wayon adoo-dad that held each rod section in it own individual compartment onalong spindle. The rod had an intermediate wrap about every 1.5" ofits'length. The reelseat was IN FRONT of the cork grip. Guides weretubular &flared at both ends. Tip top was some "pre-perfection" three ringthing. The only markings on the rod were the words "AFRICAN STEELCANE" onthe buttcap. Any clue what this one is? -=Mark=-Devino's Websitehttp://www.inlink.com/~devino Mark,a friend of mine told me the history of African steel vine. During theembargo there was little Tonkin left so a large rod manufacturer'discovered' a vine with the strength of steel growing in Africa. Rods were produced for years from this vine and then someone took aclose look at one of these rods and noticed they were built from 6strips. The steel vine was in fact the old Calcutta cane built as per usual butthen the hexagon rounded off. He showed me one in his collection whichhe said was not valuable but interesting all the same.Terry Ackland from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Aug 29 19:32:36 1997 (205.236.249.161) Subject: Re: Heat Mat Gary Hilbers wrote: A week or two ago Terry Ackland mentioned that his oven was heated bytwo 1000 watt heat mats. I responded by asking more about these heatmats, but got no answer. Can anyone help me out? GaryHilbers Gary,these mats are flat elements covered in glass cloth and heat resistantsilicon, they just look like a thin red rubber mat. They can bepurchased in varous sizes, mine are 18 ins x 24ins .I do not rember who makes them and I am not going to not going to stripmy ovens down to find out.I think Mcmaster-Carr carries them but they are very expensive. The words ' heating mats' I would have thought been enough to go onGary? Finding stuff is a large part of the fun of rodbuilding.T.A from ghilbers@earthlink.net Fri Aug 29 20:17:38 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Mat The words ' heating mats' I would have thought been enough to go onGary? Finding stuff is a large part of the fun of rodbuilding.T.A One of the best way to find stuff is to ask questions:-)} Gary from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Aug 29 21:07:58 1997 Sat, 30 Aug 1997 10:07:28 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: African Steelcane (OLD) On Fri, 29 Aug 1997, Terence Ackland wrote: Mark Devino, St. Louis wrote: While out in the country I came across what looked like a VERY oldrod. Itis 8 1/2 feet long, three sections, two tips. Packaged in a funny wayon adoo-dad that held each rod section in it own individual compartment onalong spindle. The rod had an intermediate wrap about every 1.5" ofits'length. The reelseat was IN FRONT of the cork grip. Guides weretubular &flared at both ends. Tip top was some "pre-perfection" three ringthing. The only markings on the rod were the words "AFRICAN STEELCANE" onthe buttcap. Any clue what this one is? -=Mark=-Devino's Websitehttp://www.inlink.com/~devino Mark,a friend of mine told me the history of African steel vine. During theembargo there was little Tonkin left so a large rod manufacturer'discovered' a vine with the strength of steel growing in Africa. Rods were produced for years from this vine and then someone took aclose look at one of these rods and noticed they were built from 6strips. The steel vine was in fact the old Calcutta cane built as per usual butthen the hexagon rounded off. He showed me one in his collection whichhe said was not valuable but interesting all the same.Terry Ackland I think I've seen one of these rods. I thought it may have been a cheap Japaneese rod from around the end of WWII. It cast terribly and if you looked down the ferrule you saw it was solid. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from JCZIMNY@dol.net Fri Aug 29 21:17:33 1997 Subject: Re: Tests of Glues Darryl,Most interesting that the glue that failed was a powdered form of Ureaformaldehyde-- URAC type.While the solid resin UF's have a considerably longer shelf-life thanthe liquid formulations, they do "give up the ghost" in about a year.It all depends upon the ambient temperature and humidity.I suspect that you got an old batch. Because that stuff should be asgood as any other UF. Indeed, it was probably made by one of the twomanufacturers of that resin-American Cyanimid or Borden.John Zimny from devino@inlink.com Fri Aug 29 21:28:05 1997 thor.inlink.com (8.8.0/V8) with SMTP id VAA19724 for Subject: Re: African Steelcane (OLD) The rod I saw was a definite hex and wasnt light colored like theCalcutta's I've read about. It had so many intermediates I just figuredthey were structural and that the rod was either very old or built withpoor adhesives. -=Mark=-http://www.inlink.com/~devino from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Aug 30 07:30:41 1997 (205.236.248.88) Subject: Re: Tests of Glues John Zimny wrote: Darryl,Most interesting that the glue that failed was a powdered form of Urea formaldehyde-- URAC type.While the solid resin UF's have a considerably longer shelf-life thanthe liquid formulations, they do "give up the ghost" in about a year.It all depends upon the ambient temperature and humidity.I suspect that you got an old batch. Because that stuff should be asgood as any other UF. Indeed, it was probably made by one of the twomanufacturers of that resin-American Cyanimid or Borden.John Zimny John,An expert at Cyanamid said that they give a 1 year shelf life to coverthemselves. Well stored powder in sealed tubs with dessicating crystalsin will last a few years. I was told that when the adhesive started toget lumpy during mixing it was time to stop using it. I have someMelurac stored this way and it is 5 years old and still good. Terry from KGaucher@aol.com Sat Aug 30 07:55:33 1997 Subject: Re: Oven thermostat I have a mica strip heating element, does anyone know where I can get an oven thermostat to control the temperature? from JCZIMNY@dol.net Sat Aug 30 08:52:17 1997 Subject: Re: Tests of Glues Terence Ackland wrote: John Zimny wrote: Darryl,Most interesting that the glue that failed was a powdered form of Urea formaldehyde-- URAC type.While the solid resin UF's have a considerably longer shelf-life thanthe liquid formulations, they do "give up the ghost" in about a year.It all depends upon the ambient temperature and humidity.I suspect that you got an old batch. Because that stuff should be asgood as any other UF. Indeed, it was probably made by one of the twomanufacturers of that resin-American Cyanimid or Borden.John Zimny John,An expert at Cyanamid said that they give a 1 year shelf life to coverthemselves. Well stored powder in sealed tubs with dessicatingcrystalsin will last a few years. I was told that when the adhesive started toget lumpy during mixing it was time to stop using it. I have someMelurac stored this way and it is 5 years old and still good. TerryI too have had the same experience a you. But no one knows how long orunder what conditions some of that hardware store stuff is stored.John from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Aug 30 08:58:30 1997 KAA10794 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 10:04:46-0400 Subject: Re: Oven thermostat KenI went down to my local appliance store and took a thermostat out ofa"junk" stove that he took after installing a new stove. I bought about $2 ofhightemp wire from him and I was set to go - so cruse your neighbor hood foroldstove and salvage the part. Price is right - free. I have a mica strip heating element, does anyone know where I canget an oven thermostat to control the temperature? Regards Chris from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sat Aug 30 10:47:23 1997 Subject: Re: African Steelcane (OLD) flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>While out in the country I came across what looked like a VERY oldrod. ItRO>is 8 1/2 feet long, three sections, two tips. Packaged in a funnyway on aRO>doo-dad that held each rod section in it own individual compartmenton aRO>long spindle. The rod had an intermediate wrap about every 1.5" ofits'RO>length. The reelseat was IN FRONT of the cork grip. Guides weretubular &RO>flared at both ends. Tip top was some "pre-perfection" three ringthing. RO>The only markings on the rod were the words "AFRICAN STEELCANE"ontheRO>buttcap. Any clue what this one is? RO> -=Mark=-RO> Devino's WebsiteRO> http://www.inlink.com/~devino Mark, "African Steel" was a H-I rod model, there seems to be 2 differentsub- models (#2354 - red/green wraps, #2353 - Green/yellow wraps).Info is from Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" pages107-108. Don Burns Fred Devine made some African Steel Vine rods as well. African SteelVine was Calcutta Cane and was so named because of the upsurge ofTonkinCane and the glut of Calcutta on the market. It was advertised as thestrongest, steeliest, springiness material for fly rods. from mduclos@mail.advertisnet.com Sat Aug 30 12:36:35 1997 with ESMTP id AAA146 for ;Sat, 30 Aug 1997 12:44:43 -0500 Subject: new kid with questions I just "inherited" an older bamboo fly rod from a relative who got it as agift and doesn't fish. I I'm not sue of its origin and would like to find out a little more aboutit. Is this the right place to get some info? If so, I can describe it - if not, could you suggest where I might check? thanks in advance,mike d from mduclos@mail.advertisnet.com Sat Aug 30 12:53:00 1997 with ESMTP id AAA165 for ;Sat, 30 Aug 1997 13:01:07 -0500 Subject: Old Heddon I just "inherited" an older bamboo fly rod from a relative who got it as agift and doesn't fish. I spoke with someone (more knowledgeable than I) who thought it might beanolder Heddon rod, but wasn't sure. Is this the right place to get some info? If so, I can describe it - if not, could you suggest where I might check? thanks in advance,mike d from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Aug 30 15:36:34 1997 QAA10553 for ; Sat, 30 Aug 1997 16:36:30 Subject: Ferrules Hi Terry, 8/29/97Thanks for your kind words regarding my use of contact cement. We allunderstand that your approval does not come easily. But you could well rethink your attitude regarding epoxy. Over the samethirty years I've never had an epoxy failure. Like all our adhesive choicesin applications as critical as our cane rods it's easy to make a wrongchoice. Particularly with epoxy. My "dinasaur" epoxy is getting theattention of other makers with what I believe to be favorable results andyou just can't beat it for cure time, color, temperature and friendliness.Bill from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Aug 30 16:26:24 1997 (205.236.248.82) Subject: Re: African Steelcane (OLD) Ralph W Moon wrote: flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com wrote: RO>While out in the country I came across what looked like a VERYoldrod. ItRO>is 8 1/2 feet long, three sections, two tips. Packaged in a funny way on aRO>doo-dad that held each rod section in it own individualcompartmenton aRO>long spindle. The rod had an intermediate wrap about every 1.5"ofits'RO>length. The reelseat was IN FRONT of the cork grip. Guides weretubular &RO>flared at both ends. Tip top was some "pre- perfection" three ring thing. RO>The only markings on the rod were the words "AFRICAN STEELCANE"ontheRO>buttcap. Any clue what this one is? RO> -=Mark=-RO> Devino's Website RO>http://www.inlink.com/~devino Mark, "African Steel" was a H-I rod model, there seems to be 2 differentsub- models (#2354 - red/green wraps, #2353 - Green/yellow wraps).Info is from Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" pages107-108. Don Burns Fred Devine made some African Steel Vine rods as well. AfricanSteelVine was Calcutta Cane and was so named because of the upsurge ofTonkinCane and the glut of Calcutta on the market. It was advertised as the strongest, steeliest, springiness material for fly rods. Don,yes that is the story I heard, I remember now. I am sure todays anglersare not as gullible?Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Aug 30 17:49:50 1997 (205.236.248.82) Subject: Re: Ferrules Bill Fink wrote: Hi Terry, 8/29/97Thanks for your kind words regarding my use of contact cement. Weallunderstand that your approval does not come easily.But you could well rethink your attitude regarding epoxy. Over thesamethirty years I've never had an epoxy failure. Like all our adhesivechoicesin applications as critical as our cane rods it's easy to make a wrong choice. Particularly with epoxy. My "dinasaur" epoxy is getting theattention of other makers with what I believe to be favorable resultsandyou just can't beat it for cure time, color, temperature andfriendliness.BillBill, I have tried epoxy and find it expensive smelly and messy and prone tofailure.I use a fortified formaldehyde adhesive that has been aroundyears and has a long documented history in bamboo rod making and otherhighly highly stressed applications. It is easy to clean. A freshly glued up blank is washed with a wetcloth and once the adhesive has set the the cord is just run off ind theblank just requires a the minimal of papering( not filing).You may well find epoxy suites you, I just happen to mention that I donot like the stuff. Whether or not anyone follows my recommendation isof little consequence to me , I just like to get meaningful andthoughtful dialog going on the list. I personally would not take what I read on this list as gospel withoutfirst convincing myself that it was so. I have always been anindependant builder, developing my own style and tapers that suit me. Iam not saying my rods are the best, I build for my own satisfaction andI like to be different. I offer an alternative to the Garrison taperswhich gives me a nice little nich. I am very careful in what I sacrifice on the alter of progess becausemuch of the so called science is more in the marketing. Terry Ackland from KGaucher@aol.com Sat Aug 30 19:21:34 1997 Subject: thermostat Chris and Tom, thanks. I,ll check it out Ken from EMiller257@aol.com Sat Aug 30 20:54:48 1997 Subject: Re: Splitting headache I learned a neat way to split nice even strips at a class taught by Wayne.You probably already own a common putty knife for doing odd jobs aroundthehouse. This is a great tool. Use the froe for basic splitting until you'vefinished splitting a half culm into thirds. Then take each piece and startthe split with the froe but as soon as the split is started replace the froewith a putty knife. Force the putty knife into the split end and proceed tosplit the strip. Hold the strip with your right hand and firmly push theknife along the split with your left hand. The beauty of this method is howmuch control you have. If the split starts to migrate away from thecenterof the strip pressure on the thicker side of the split causes migrationaway from the thinner side. A little twisting of the knife propels the splitalong right through nodes and by controlling the pressure against each halfof the piece being split, uniform strips become easy. I hope this helps youout. ED MILLER from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Aug 30 21:51:51 1997 +0800 (WST) Sun, 31 Aug 1997 10:04:15 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Ferrules On Sat, 30 Aug 1997, Terence Ackland wrote: Bill Fink wrote: Hi Terry, 8/29/97Thanks for your kind words regarding my use of contact cement. Weallunderstand that your approval does not come easily.But you could well rethink your attitude regarding epoxy. Over thesamethirty years I've never had an epoxy failure. Like all our adhesivechoicesin applications as critical as our cane rods it's easy to make a wrong choice. Particularly with epoxy. My "dinasaur" epoxy is getting theattention of other makers with what I believe to be favorable resultsandyou just can't beat it for cure time, color, temperature andfriendliness.BillBill, I have tried epoxy and find it expensive smelly and messy and prone tofailure.I use a fortified formaldehyde adhesive that has been aroundyears and has a long documented history in bamboo rod making and otherhighly highly stressed applications. It is easy to clean. A freshly glued up blank is washed with a wetcloth and once the adhesive has set the the cord is just run off ind theblank just requires a the minimal of papering( not filing).You may well find epoxy suites you, I just happen to mention that I donot like the stuff. Whether or not anyone follows my recommendation isof little consequence to me , I just like to get meaningful andthoughtful dialog going on the list. I personally would not take what I read on this list as gospel withoutfirst convincing myself that it was so. I have always been anindependant builder, developing my own style and tapers that suit me. Iam not saying my rods are the best, I build for my own satisfaction andI like to be different. I offer an alternative to the Garrison taperswhich gives me a nice little nich. I am very careful in what I sacrifice on the alter of progess becausemuch of the so called science is more in the marketing. Terry Ackland How true that is. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Sun Aug 31 14:05:12 1997 Subject: RE:Old Heddon RO>I just "inherited" an older bamboo fly rod from a relative who got it asaRO>gift and doesn't fish. RO>I spoke with someone (more knowledgeable than I) who thought itmight be anRO>older Heddon rod, but wasn't sure. RO>Is this the right place to get some info? RO>If so, I can describe it - if not, could you suggest where I might check? RO>thanks in advance,RO>mike d Mike, I can help you - please email me directly. My TCP/IP server cuts off theposters email address if the message was posted to a list-serv so Ican't respond off list until you post directly to me. Don Burns flyfisher@bbs.cmix.com Wishful collector of Gillum and Dickerson rods - owner of Montague, H-Iand Heddon rods from mrj@seanet.com Sun Aug 31 22:44:29 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29834 for Subject: test ;lkhlkj-- Martin Jensen