from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Nov 1 05:01:47 1997 Subject: Re: Drilling holes... Jon Lintvet wrote: I don't know that much about working with a drill press so here isthe question. Why would a 1/2" bit scream when trying to drillthrough aluminum. Jon LintvetIthaca, New York(607) 277-9781(800) 836-7558 Jon, I would guess that your drill bit is pobably dull. Aluminum dissipatesheat very rapidly and I don't think that would be your problem. Regards, Steve from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Nov 1 05:40:01 1997 ; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 11:43:30 GMT Subject: Beveller British beveller manufacturer Barry Grantham is trying to find a faxnumber If you're there George, could you email your fax number to me, and I'll passit on to Barry. He has no email facility. Last weekend I saw some of Barry's own finished cane made on the newbeveller. I must say, it mics up remarkably consistently, and looks superb.The beveller is obviously capable of producing excellent finished strips. My feeling was that Barry really should be baking his cane for a bit longer,but of course, that's another matter. John Cooper (England) from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Nov 1 06:50:48 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA27755 for Subject: Re: Reelseat question? flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: I've got a rod with a 0.410" butt dia. and the butt section is shorterthan the other sections - will a wood reelseat spacer hold up if ithangs off the butt by 2 3/8"? How about if I cut it down by a ~1/2"? The rod is a 4 wt - if it matters. Thx, Don B.Don,I've been told by an old rodmaker that all they required for thereelseat-to-cane connection was 1.5". Thus, often the butts were madesomewhat shorter allowing an eight foot three piece to use the same buttsplits as a 7'6". I have mounted 2+ " short with no problem.Best regards,Reed from bc940@freenet.uchsc.EDU Sat Nov 1 09:09:47 1997 IAA15431; Sat, 1 Nov 1997 08:09:26 -0700 Subject: Re: Reelseat question? flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: I've got a rod with a 0.410" butt dia. and the butt section is shorterthan the other sections - will a wood reelseat spacer hold up if ithangs off the butt by 2 3/8"? How about if I cut it down by a ~1/2"? The rod is a 4 wt - if it matters. Thx, Don B.Don,I've been told by an old rodmaker that all they required for thereelseat-to-cane connection was 1.5". Thus, often the butts were madesomewhat shorter allowing an eight foot three piece to use the same buttsplits as a 7'6". I have mounted 2+ " short with no problem.Best regards,Reed Don, I have been told by a local fly shop owner that Winston mounts their canerods with a short butt to reduce weight. Don't know if this is correct ornot but would seem to go well with their hollow fluting to keep weight toa minimun. Jim Fillpot, loveland colorado -- from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Nov 1 10:25:58 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Spey rods In a message dated 10/31/97 4:42:29 PM, you wrote: They should be available at modest cost. I would contact Ron Barch at PObox365., Hastings, MI 49058 and inquire. If you are going to build rods youshould subscribe, anyway. If this is your first project, I would not chooseaspey rod. I think you will have trouble handling the heavy butt strips. Iwould suggest something in the area of a 6 weight singlehander for yourfirstattempt. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Nov 1 11:03:43 1997 Subject: Re[2]: local bamboo/LA winter RO>Winter? Today felt like 80+ degrees. I went surf fishing wearingshortsRO>early last November. I could only stand about 45 minutes though! RO>Kurt in LA (Denham Springs) Yesterday, it hit 91 deg's in Santa Clarita, CA - poor kids in theirHolloween custumes must'a been hot. Again, not one kid dresses as aFFer. (: from ghinde@inconnect.com Sat Nov 1 23:21:16 1997 0000 Subject: Re: Reelseat question? I have seen several rods which had the reel seat "hanging" off the butt. Although they were at the lower end of the quality scale, they did havetwofeatures which might be of some help. First, the reel seats were fullmetal, and second there was a plug of wood (Balsa?) to fill the space. Iwould fill the overhang with a piece of dowel just to keep the wood spacer from cracking the first time the rod is dropped. It would also helpprevent water damage to the spacer. ----------From: Reed F. Curry Subject: Re: Reelseat question?Date: Saturday, November 01, 1997 5:49 PM flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: I've got a rod with a 0.410" butt dia. and the butt section is shorterthan the other sections - will a wood reelseat spacer hold up if ithangs off the butt by 2 3/8"? How about if I cut it down by a ~1/2"? The rod is a 4 wt - if it matters. Thx, Don B.Don,I've been told by an old rodmaker that all they required for thereelseat-to-cane connection was 1.5". Thus, often the butts were madesomewhat shorter allowing an eight foot three piece to use the samebuttsplits as a 7'6". I have mounted 2+ " short with no problem.Best regards,Reed from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 2 01:49:49 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA17295 Subject: Re: Beveller -- contact info? Hello John (and the rest of the group for that matter),Does anyone have contact info for Barry Grantham and/or any othersources of bevellers?Thanks in advance.George Bourke J.Cooper wrote: British beveller manufacturer Barry Grantham is trying to find a faxnumber If you're there George, could you email your fax number to me, and I'llpassit on to Barry. He has no email facility. Last weekend I saw some of Barry's own finished cane made on the newbeveller. I must say, it mics up remarkably consistently, and lookssuperb.The beveller is obviously capable of producing excellent finished strips. My feeling was that Barry really should be baking his cane for a bitlonger,but of course, that's another matter. John Cooper (England) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 2 06:58:03 1997 Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:57:51 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: wooden forms On Fri, 31 Oct 1997, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Another question on wooden forms? I haven't seen anyone mention it or read it anywhere but does anyone buta finish of any kind on the wood to seal it? Tung oil or wax oranything? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO I wouldn't put any finish on it, it dosn't need any and the finish would most likely gum up on the sole of the plane. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 2 07:18:29 1997 Sun, 2 Nov 1997 21:18:14 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: More on Cattanach 76531 info. On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Fernando and Tony,If my math is right 200Deg. C= 392deg. F. At 30-40 min. you'll have abrown tone to say the least, if not charcoal.Any rebuttals?Hank. Hank,Your conversion is prob correct, but I use my kitchen oven (electric) and these are the times I'm using. The cane comes out browish but not*brown*.I should add here that I place the cane in the oven and turn the oven on to 200c, so it's not that temp the entire 30 mins. Sorry not to mention that first time round, it would make a difference. It seems on the high side I admit, but I've settled on it as a result of increasing the time and temp and seeing what the result is in the finished rods. They seem ok. As I mentioned before, longer than around 30mins seem to make no difference to the action of the finished rod I just leave it longer to alter the colour which you have made reference to :-). On a completely different matter. I went to a "horse and cow" show for the last 3 days and got into some excellent fishing, I also had a cast of a T&T (graphite) #8 with a Lee Wulf sinking line. (EXPLETIVE!@#$#@!) it could cast a long way. With 20' of line out I could cast to the backing on a 90' line with one back cast. I put the line on one of my rods and had a simmilar experience though not to the backing. These are amazing linesand worth a try if you haven't already. The T&T wasn't bad either. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sun Nov 2 08:11:14 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA10184; Sun, 2 Nov 1997 Subject: Re: More on Cattanach 76531 info. At 09:18 PM 11/2/97 +0800, Tony Young wrote:On Thu, 30 Oct 1997 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Fernando and Tony,If my math is right 200Deg. C= 392deg. F. At 30-40 min. you'll have abrown tone to say the least, if not charcoal.Any rebuttals?Hank. Hank,Your conversion is prob correct, but I use my kitchen oven (electric) and these are the times I'm using. The cane comes out browish but not*brown*.I should add here that I place the cane in the oven and turn the oven on to 200c, so it's not that temp the entire 30 mins. Sorry not to mention that first time round, it would make a difference. It seems on the high side I admit, but I've settled on it as a result of increasing the time and temp and seeing what the result is in the finished rods. They seem ok. I wonder if the setting on the oven actually gives you 200 C at any pointduring your heat treatment? Oven thermostatts are not known for theiraccuacy. -Doug(__________|========================================o/ o \ / | \__ /\ / Douglas Easton | \ / |\____/ Dpeaston@wzrd.com | |* from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Nov 2 11:14:04 1997 Subject: 200c Heat Treating (Was: More on Cattanach 76531 info.) In a message dated 97-11-02 08:22:25 EST, you write: Your conversion is prob correct, but I use my kitchen oven (electric) and these are the times I'm using. The cane comes out browish but not*brown*.I should add here that I place the cane in the oven and turn the oven on to 200c, so it's not that temp the entire 30 mins. Sorry not to mention that first time round, it would make a difference. I seem to recall that Tony likes to make nodeless rods, andwith the mention of a kitchen oven, perhaps he is heat treatingsections of the culm with the nodes cut out before he splits?A large mass of bamboo won't react to the heat as quicklyas an already split spline would. Darryl Hayashida from ba-mma@orkestern.skelleftea.SE Sun Nov 2 13:19:40 1997 skeria.skelleftea.se (4.1/SMI-4.1) 1.21);2 Nov 97 21:20:50 MET DST 21:20:40 MET DST 2 Nov 97 21:20:30 MET DST Subject: Re: Spey rods Wall thickness is not related to cane diameter. Try to choose culms with as thick walls as possible. Otherwise the percentage of useful fiber will be very low in the rod.The 13foot taper is a 3piece rod. The stress on the lower ferrule has to do with the spey cast. In normal overhand casting the stress is lower. It helps if you try to be very exact in fitting the ferrule on the blank.Hope it will be a nice rod! Let me know what you think about it if you make one Roger...----------------------------------------------------------------Mikael Marklundmikael.marklund@orkestern.skelleftea.sehttp://www.skelleftea.se/utb/balder/personal/ba-mma/flyfish.htm from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 2 16:25:19 1997 Mon, 3 Nov 1997 06:25:12 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: 200c Heat Treating (Was: More on Cattanach 76531 info.) Daryl & Doug, On Sun, 2 Nov 1997, SalarFly wrote: In a message dated 97-11-02 08:22:25 EST, you write: Your conversion is prob correct, but I use my kitchen oven (electric)and these are the times I'm using. The cane comes out browish but not*brown*.I should add here that I place the cane in the oven and turn the oven on to 200c, so it's not that temp the entire 30 mins. Sorry not to mention that first time round, it would make a difference. I seem to recall that Tony likes to make nodeless rods, andwith the mention of a kitchen oven, perhaps he is heat treatingsections of the culm with the nodes cut out before he splits?A large mass of bamboo won't react to the heat as quicklyas an already split spline would. Darryl Hayashida Doug mentions the oven may not actually reach 200c during the 30-40mins in the oven and Daryl writes the above.As I wrote prior these times and temps are where I've arrived (for now anyhow) as a result of trial and trial. There haven't realy been any errors as such as if the cane hasn't been treated long enough all I've wound up with is a rod with an action I'm not looking for.Prob you are both correct. I haven't placed a thermometer in the oven so I can't say for sure what temp is ultimately acheived though it's hard to believe it isn't at least close to 200c within 10 mins. As per Chris Bogart I cut the nodes from the culm, split the culm and heat treat. After heat treating I scarf the pieces and continue from there.I keep the cane in a heated area after heat treating as I don't heat treat again after final planing. This would seem a worthwhile experiment for interested people to try as it would only mean using what to most people are scraps. It'd be interesting to see what others find. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Nov 2 19:54:43 1997 Subject: Thanks to the List -- Oven Completed Yesterday I completed my oven and it seems to work just fine. I deeplyindebted to several list members for its successful completion. Thanks toWayne for the basic design and sources for the major components. Ipurchasedthe mica strip heater and thermostat from Grand Technologies. FrankStetzerprovided the inspiration to use heating duct for the shells and a waterheater blanket for insulation. For the shell I used 4" and 6" heating ductand sheet tin for end caps. To make the end caps I simply traced aroundtheduct, added 1" to the radius, and then cut tabs. The tabs were bent at rightangles and screwed to the duct with sheet metal screws. The door isconstructed in the same manner with a handle constructed from a strip ofthesheet tin and pop riveted to the cover. The oven shell is eccentric enoughthat a simple twist will hold it on. The legs are strips to sheet tin popriveted to the sides and bottom of the oven. Doug Hall's idea to use fender washers over lapping the mica strip heaterworked very well to mount the copper tube spacers. The only difficulty I had was the "rat screen" used for the rod rack insidethe oven. The local Home Depot did not know what I wanted when I askedfor"rat screen". When I described it he said "Oh, You mean hardware cloth".Ratscreen must be Midwest. My Uncle had a farm in northern Ohio and healwaysused Rat Screen in his corn cribs. The second difficulty was how I mounted the screen. I very carefullymeasured from the edge of the 4" duct and drilled holes for the screen. Whentrimmingthe screen I left a 1/2" extension every 3" to fit into equally spaced holesdrilled in the duct along each side. The problem came when I snapped theducttogether and looked inside. The screen was not flat, but was badlytwisted.What I didn't know was that the seam was twisted. For my next attempt Isnapped the duct together and placed it on a flat surface and scribed linesdown the side at the appropriate height. This worked much better. I'm also indebted to Charles Parham for his advice on the correct way towirethe oven so that the heater element is not electrically hot when thethermostat is off. Thanks one and all. Mark ColeLeadville, COHouston, TX from SealRite@aol.com Sun Nov 2 20:33:49 1997 Subject: Graphite Scrim & Roller As an unrelated inquiry, and with due reverence to bamboo, does anyoneknowwho manufacturers the scrim and equipment to roll graphite blanks? from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Sun Nov 2 21:20:54 1997 0000 Subject: clear wraps i'm beginning to think about cosmetics for my upcoming rod, and reallylikethe look of clear guide wraps.....so tonight i took a test strip of came,and wrapped on a guide with white, silk thread, and varnished it.....wellthe wraps didn't turn clear, they were transparent, but not CLEAR....icoated the wraps with polyurathane......do i have to thin downpolyurathane, or use spar varnish, or what?? thanks for any info..... BTW.....is anyone on the list going to attend the Int. Fly Tying Show in NJon the 15th??? i'm going to be there, just curious if anyone else is :-) ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////____MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net____/// \\\\_\\\\__http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/________ICQ#3782893__\\\ ____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o-------------------------------- --------------`''''''/||\/||||\ from lsa@amigo.net Sun Nov 2 21:47:10 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO203-101c) ID# 0-0U10L2S100)with ESMTP id AAA8649 for ;Sun, 2 Nov 1997 20:47:07 -0700 Subject: stop subscription Please stop subscription re:bamboo rods. Thank you. from gord@teleport.com Sun Nov 2 22:47:56 1997 Subject: Re: clear wraps I too like translucent wraps. If you use polyurathane on thread -either silk or nylon - they turn out rather opaque. I use spar on mywraps - white thread becomes transparent - and then use 'thane on thewhole thing at the end in my dip tank. Cheers,Gord Matt Leiderman wrote: i'm beginning to think about cosmetics for my upcoming rod, and reallylikethe look of clear guide wraps.....so tonight i took a test strip of came,and wrapped on a guide with white, silk thread, and varnished it.....wellthe wraps didn't turn clear, they were transparent, but not CLEAR....icoated the wraps with polyurathane......do i have to thin downpolyurathane, or use spar varnish, or what?? thanks for any info..... BTW.....is anyone on the list going to attend the Int. Fly Tying Show in NJon the 15th??? i'm going to be there, just curious if anyone else is :-) ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////____MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net____/// \\\\_\\\\__http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/________ICQ#3782893__\\\____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o----------- -----------------------------------`''''''/||\/||||\ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Nov 3 05:39:46 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA30455 for; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 11:43:49 GMT Subject: Re: Beveller -- contact info? At 23:54 01/11/97 -0800, you wrote:Hello John (and the rest of the group for that matter),Does anyone have contact info for Barry Grantham and/or any othersources of bevellers?Thanks in advance.George Bourke J.Cooper wrote: British beveller manufacturer Barry Grantham is trying to find a faxnumber If you're there George, could you email your fax number to me, and I'llpassit on to Barry. He has no email facility. Last weekend I saw some of Barry's own finished cane made on the newbeveller. I must say, it mics up remarkably consistently, and lookssuperb.The beveller is obviously capable of producing excellent finished strips. My feeling was that Barry really should be baking his cane for a bitlonger,but of course, that's another matter. John Cooper (England) George and others I've been trying to help Barry Grantham with his beveller project bymakingup a flier to promote the machine. This is the text of the flier - for whatit's worth. Obviously, the actual flier will be a tad smarter, and havephotographs. Please - contact Barry direct. Please bear in mind that Barry is from theuncivilised North, where protein-rich girl children disappear during hardwinters. Don't expect a reply overnight. If you're really serious, you mighthazard a phone call to him. A fax might be better. I don't think the priceis decided yet, but there are all sorts of precision bearings and groundfaces involved, so it will not be $5 plus sales tax. Hexaform A Unique Precision Profile Cutter For Bamboo Rod-Makers Overview Designed by rod-maker and precision-engineer Barry Grantham, the uniqueHexaform milling machine offers bamboo rod-makers the facility to formhexsections to an extremely high level of accuracy, and with high productionthroughput. Features Unlike the few remaining vintage bamboo mills, the Hexaform is extremelycompact. By incorporating a moving cutter head (rather than the usualmovingbed) the unit's length is almost halved. With a footprint of only 6'6" x1'6" (approx.) the Hexarform can be accommodated in the smallestworkshop. Operation Strips are sized by a cutter head incorporating milling cuttersprecision- ground to the correct angle. The cutter head moves along ahardened and ground slideway. The cutters are adjustable vertically bymeansof a calibrated feed-screw, thereby producing exactly the strip sizerequired. Taper is produced on a 6'6" bed adjustable at 5" centres. By this meanscompound tapers and butt swells are produced with great ease and speed.Aclamping device is provided to hold the wood or Tufnol former along thefulllength of the bed. The bamboo strip is securely held in place by a furtherclamp. Options and Extras Available ˜ Over-length bedways. The standard Hexaform produces strips up to 5'6" long. Beds can be madelonger allowing rod-makers to produce one-piece rods. ˜ Power feed to cutter head. ˜ Dust-extraction unit. ˜ Mounting bench. Prices Standard unit £ Delivery Approx. 6 weeks from receipt of order Terms 25% with order. Balance on collection, or pre shipping.Profile Grinding (Attention Barry Grantham)7 Brant Road, Lincoln, LN5 8RL England(International Code 44) 01522.535500 (Telephone and Fax) from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Mon Nov 3 09:17:52 1997 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon,3 Nov 1997 09:20:12 CDT Subject: making ferrules Concerning the manufacture of ferrules, the (in)famous George Leonard Herter says, "German silver, although greatly inferior in strength and other qualities for good ferrules when compared to such metals as stainless steels, monel, and beryllium copper, makes good ferrules and has long been a favorite. The popularity of German silver is due mainly its silver-like color that tarnishes in use, thus giving the metal a non-reflecting surface desirable in some fishing areas (Professional Glass and Split -Bamboo Rod Building Manual and Manufacturer's Guide, 1958)." I have already purchased some nickel silver to try making some ferrules, and nothing will stop me from trying that. However, I'd also like to see what the list wisdom knows about such alternative materials. Do those three really make superior ferrules? What is monel? Are there reasonable sources of supply for tubing made of these? Has anyone direct knowledge of their machinability? -Grayson from santiago@ricochet.net Mon Nov 3 13:10:44 1997 NAA02180 for ; Mon, 3 Nov 1997 13:12:59 - Subject: Re: Beveller -- contact info? J.Cooper wrote: At 23:54 01/11/97 -0800, you wrote:Hello John (and the rest of the group for that matter),Does anyone have contact info for Barry Grantham and/or any othersources of bevellers?Thanks in advance.George Bourke J.Cooper wrote: British beveller manufacturer Barry Grantham is trying to find a faxnumber If you're there George, could you email your fax number to me, and I'llpassit on to Barry. He has no email facility. Last weekend I saw some of Barry's own finished cane made on thenewbeveller. I must say, it mics up remarkably consistently, and lookssuperb.The beveller is obviously capable of producing excellent finishedstrips. My feeling was that Barry really should be baking his cane for a bitlonger,but of course, that's another matter. John Cooper (England) George and others I've been trying to help Barry Grantham with his beveller project bymakingup a flier to promote the machine. This is the text of the flier - for whatit's worth. Obviously, the actual flier will be a tad smarter, and havephotographs. Please - contact Barry direct. Please bear in mind that Barry is from theuncivilised North, where protein-rich girl children disappear during hardwinters. Don't expect a reply overnight. If you're really serious, youmighthazard a phone call to him. A fax might be better. I don't think the priceis decided yet, but there are all sorts of precision bearings and groundfaces involved, so it will not be $5 plus sales tax. Hexaform A Unique Precision Profile Cutter For Bamboo Rod-Makers Overview Designed by rod-maker and precision-engineer Barry Grantham, theuniqueHexaform milling machine offers bamboo rod-makers the facility toform hexsections to an extremely high level of accuracy, and with high productionthroughput. Features Unlike the few remaining vintage bamboo mills, the Hexaform isextremelycompact. By incorporating a moving cutter head (rather than the usualmovingbed) the unit's length is almost halved. With a footprint of only 6'6" x1'6" (approx.) the Hexarform can be accommodated in the smallestworkshop. Operation Strips are sized by a cutter head incorporating milling cuttersprecision- ground to the correct angle. The cutter head moves along ahardened and ground slideway. The cutters are adjustable vertically bymeansof a calibrated feed-screw, thereby producing exactly the strip sizerequired. Taper is produced on a 6'6" bed adjustable at 5" centres. By this meanscompound tapers and butt swells are produced with great ease and speed.Aclamping device is provided to hold the wood or Tufnol former along thefulllength of the bed. The bamboo strip is securely held in place by a furtherclamp. Options and Extras Available ˜ Over-length bedways. The standard Hexaform produces strips up to 5'6" long. Beds can be madelonger allowing rod-makers to produce one-piece rods. ˜ Power feed to cutter head. ˜ Dust-extraction unit. ˜ Mounting bench. Prices Standard unit £ Delivery Approx. 6 weeks from receipt of order Terms 25% with order. Balance on collection, or pre shipping.Profile Grinding (Attention Barry Grantham)7 Brant Road, Lincoln, LN5 8RL England(International Code 44) 01522.535500 (Telephone and Fax) this is great info... what does the actual strip lay on? do you need tocreate a template for each taper that you use? leo ps. if you know the price, please feel free to email me direct. thanks in advance from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Nov 3 13:22:05 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Beveller -- contact info? how about posting the info that Leo asked about. ----------From: Leo Santiago[SMTP:santiago@ricochet.net] Sent: Monday, November 03, 1997 3:13 AM Subject: Re: Beveller -- contact info? J.Cooper wrote: At 23:54 01/11/97 -0800, you wrote:Hello John (and the rest of the group for that matter),Does anyone have contact info for Barry Grantham and/or anyothersources of bevellers?Thanks in advance.George Bourke J.Cooper wrote: British beveller manufacturer Barry Grantham is trying to find afax number If you're there George, could you email your fax number to me,and I'll passit on to Barry. He has no email facility. Last weekend I saw some of Barry's own finished cane made on thenewbeveller. I must say, it mics up remarkably consistently, andlooks superb.The beveller is obviously capable of producing excellent finishedstrips. My feeling was that Barry really should be baking his cane for abit longer,but of course, that's another matter. John Cooper (England) George and others I've been trying to help Barry Grantham with his beveller project bymakingup a flier to promote the machine. This is the text of the flier - it's worth. Obviously, the actual flier will be a tad smarter, andhavephotographs. Please - contact Barry direct. Please bear in mind that Barry is from theuncivilised North, where protein-rich girl children disappear duringhardwinters. Don't expect a reply overnight. If you're really serious,you mighthazard a phone call to him. A fax might be better. I don't think thepriceis decided yet, but there are all sorts of precision bearings andgroundfaces involved, so it will not be $5 plus sales tax. Hexaform A Unique Precision Profile Cutter For Bamboo Rod-Makers Overview Designed by rod-maker and precision-engineer Barry Grantham, theuniqueHexaform milling machine offers bamboo rod-makers the facility toform hexsections to an extremely high level of accuracy, and with highproductionthroughput. Features Unlike the few remaining vintage bamboo mills, the Hexaform isextremelycompact. By incorporating a moving cutter head (rather than theusual movingbed) the unit's length is almost halved. With a footprint of only6'6" x1'6" (approx.) the Hexarform can be accommodated in the smallestworkshop. Operation Strips are sized by a cutter head incorporating milling cuttersprecision- ground to the correct angle. The cutter head moves along ahardened and ground slideway. The cutters are adjustable vertically of a calibrated feed-screw, thereby producing exactly the strip sizerequired. Taper is produced on a 6'6" bed adjustable at 5" centres. By thismeanscompound tapers and butt swells are produced with great ease andspeed. Aclamping device is provided to hold the wood or Tufnol former alongthe fulllength of the bed. The bamboo strip is securely held in place by afurtherclamp. Options and Extras Available ˜ Over-length bedways. The standard Hexaform produces strips up to 5'6" long. Beds can bemadelonger allowing rod-makers to produce one-piece rods. ˜ Power feed to cutter head. ˜ Dust-extraction unit. ˜ Mounting bench. Prices Standard unit £ Delivery Approx. 6 weeks from receipt of order Terms 25% with order. Balance on collection, or pre shipping.Profile Grinding (Attention Barry Grantham)7 Brant Road, Lincoln, LN5 8RL England(International Code 44) 01522.535500 (Telephone and Fax) this is great info... what does the actual strip lay on? do you needtocreate a template for each taper that you use? leo ps. if you know the price, please feel free to email me direct. thanks in advance from brookside.rod@juno.com Mon Nov 3 19:19:52 1997 19:46:36 EST Subject: Re: making ferrules Grayson; Mr. Herters opinion of nickel silver as a ferrule material and thesuitability of other materials including stainless, monel and berylliumcopper is reflective of all his rod making philosophies.I would ignore it as history has shown us that he was generally full ofbeans. Stainless would make good ferrules but it is not as flexible ( that isductile) as NISI (nickel silver). Rod shafts would likely be highlystressed at the mouth of the ferrule if made Orvis style and if moremodern in style the thinned and tapered transition leaves would likelycrack over time due to fatigue. This depends on the alloy and there area bunch. Machinability varies from o.k. to difficult. Also keep in mindthat all stainless steels are not truly corrosion resistant. Monel is difficult to machine, requiring a different cutter geometry andcoolants than stainless and NISI. It is also more expensive than nickelsilver and about just as hard to find in small quantities. Berryllium copper is also a bit pricey but has no real complex machiningproblems. It is, however, a health hazard; kind of like asbestos when itis ground. Airborn dust is a real respiratory problem. I understandthat in industry special coolants and systems are required. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.commaker of fine handcrafted split bamboo fly rodsBrookside Rod Co.37 Brook Street Naugatuck, Ct. 06770- 3101on-line catalog: http://home.onestop.net/brookside writes:Concerning the manufacture of ferrules, the (in)famous George Leonard Herter says, "German silver, although greatly inferior in strength and other qualities for good ferrules when compared to such metals as stainless steels, monel, and beryllium copper, makes good ferrules and has long been a favorite. The popularity of German silver is due mainly its silver- like color that tarnishes in use, thus giving the metal a non-reflecting surface desirable in some fishing areas (Professional Glass and Split - Bamboo Rod Building Manual and Manufacturer's Guide, 1958)." I have already purchased some nickel silver to try making some ferrules, and nothing will stop me from trying that. However, I'd also like to see what the list wisdom knows about such alternative materials. Do those three really make superior ferrules? What is monel? Are there reasonable sources of supply for tubing made of these? Has anyone direct knowledge of their machinability? -Grayson from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Nov 3 20:55:51 1997 Subject: Norwich cane rod To all,I have a friend's Norwich 8'2" LL cane rod for a 5 or 6 wgt. made by DavidNorwich in Scotland. It's in excellent condition,aluminum tube ,etc. Doesanyone know what these rods cost new? I'm supposed to sell it for him.Thanks, Hank from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Nov 3 21:13:16 1997 Subject: Re: Re: More on Cattanach 76531 info. Tony,As I heat treat after final planing rather than before my experience withyour temps. would be different (I assume you heat treat after roughplaning).Thus my charcoal conclusion,Wow! One backcast and into the backing-I try to keep my guides largerthanmost to increase shootability but I haven't achieved that yet.Cheers, Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Nov 3 21:16:28 1997 Subject: Norwich rod To all:I have a friend's 8' 2" for a 5 or 6 wgt. swelled butt 2 pc. cane rod hewants me to sell for him. It's in mint condition-does any one know whatthisrod sells for new? It's made by Dave Norwich in Scotland.Thanks,Hank. from skyboss@ibm.net Mon Nov 3 21:53:15 1997 SMTP id DAA121644 for ; Tue, 4 Nov 199703:53:10 GMT Nov 1997 19:57:58 -0800 Subject: RE: Norwich rod =_NextPart_000_01BCE892.C891D140" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCE892.C891D140 I am the U.S. representative for David Norwich and the rod you speak of =is worth $1300 to $1600 depending upon the cosmetics (reel seat, second=tip, etc.). Ken Holder -----Original Message----- Subject: Norwich rod To all:I have a friend's 8' 2" for a 5 or 6 wgt. swelled butt 2 pc. cane rod =hewants me to sell for him. It's in mint condition-does any one know what =thisrod sells for new? It's made by Dave Norwich in Scotland.Thanks,Hank. ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCE892.C891D140 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BCE892.C891D140-- from gqla14@udcf.gla.ac.uk Tue Nov 4 05:21:41 1997 [130.209.135.199] sender gqla14) by lenzie.cent.gla.ac.uk (8.8.4/UK- 2.2a/cent-sparc) with SMTP id LAA26095 for; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 11:21:14 GMT Subject: Dial callipers, indicators and dowelling jigs I have been gathering together the tools needed for rodmaking for some time, this has taken longer than expected partly due to the high cost of tools in the UK compared to the USA, I realise now I should probably have obtained them mail order from USA. I still require a dial calliper which is likely to cost about the equivalent of 100 dollars or more in the UK. My mother is visiting my sister in Phoenix, Arizona at the moment and if possible I would like her to bringme a calliper back. Can anyone advise on a particular model, supplier and cost. I believe it is possible to buy a custom made base suitable dowelling jig.Thanks in advance. John KennedyResearch TechnicianDepartment of SurgeryWestern InfirmaryGlasgow from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Nov 4 06:48:28 1997 Tue, 4 Nov 1997 20:48:21 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: More on Cattanach 76531 info. On Mon, 3 Nov 1997, FISHWOOL wrote: Tony,As I heat treat after final planing rather than before my experiencewithyour temps. would be different (I assume you heat treat after roughplaning).Thus my charcoal conclusion,Wow! One backcast and into the backing-I try to keep my guides largerthanmost to increase shootability but I haven't achieved that yet.Cheers, Hank. Hank,I heat treat, scarf then plane to finished dimension. I keep the splines in a heated cabinet until binding.The rod with the cast to the backing with a single back cast was a T&T graphite (ugh), I wasn't able to cast to the backing on my cane rod no matter how many back casts I made :-), though using the Lee Wulf line I guess I got about 70' with about the same effort I'd put into casting 50 with a Hardy line. A good caster would have cast to the backing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Nov 4 07:34:46 1997 Subject: RE:clear wraps RO>i'm beginning to think about cosmetics for my upcoming rod, and reallylikeRO>the look of clear guide wraps.....so tonight i took a test strip of came,RO>and wrapped on a guide with white, silk thread, and varnished it.....wellRO>the wraps didn't turn clear, they were transparent, but not CLEAR....iRO>coated the wraps with polyurathane......do i have to thin downRO>polyurathane, or use spar varnish, or what?? thanks for any info..... Matt, When making an invisible repair wrap, I use a finger to gently rub-in 2or 3 light coats of spar varnish over a 24 - 36 hour hour period to getthe wrap to turn very clear. One coat doesn't do it. Also don't burnishthe thread tightly, but leave the wraps a bit loose so the varnish canget underneath. I don't use Poly-urethane, so I can't tell you if itwill also turn clear. When the spar varnish is clear and dry then doyour final poly coating. Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Nov 4 07:41:02 1997 Subject: RE:Dial callipers, indicators and dowelling jigs RO>I have been gathering together the tools needed for rodmaking forRO>some time, this has taken longer than expected partly due to the highRO>cost of tools in the UK compared to the USA, I realise now I shouldRO>probably have obtained them mail order from USA. I still require aRO>dial calliper which is likely to cost about the equivalent of 100RO>dollars or more in the UK. My mother is visiting my sister inRO>Phoenix, Arizona at the moment and if possible I would like her toRO>bringme a calliper back. Can anyone advise on a particular model,RO>supplier and cost. I believe it is possible to buy a custom made baseRO>for a dial indicator and would like similar advice on this and aRO>suitable dowelling jig.RO>Thanks in advance. RO>John KennedyRO>Research TechnicianRO>Department of SurgeryRO>Western InfirmaryRO>Glasgow John, There's a chain of discount tool stores in S. California (don't know ifthey have AZ stores) that sells a very nice Chinese-made 6" stainlesssteel dial caliper (0.001's of an inch dial) for about $30. They put iton sale every couple of months for ~$15.00. Place is called HarborFreight Tools. Have her look in the Phoenix phone book for an outlet. Do a Web search - I think that they have a web page too. Don B. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Nov 4 07:50:53 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA03058 for; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 13:55:26 GMT Subject: Re: Dial callipers, indicators and dowelling jigs At 11:21 04/11/97 +0000, you wrote:I have been gathering together the tools needed for rodmaking for some time, this has taken longer than expected partly due to the high cost of tools in the UK compared to the USA, I realise now I should probably have obtained them mail order from USA. I still require a dial calliper which is likely to cost about the equivalent of 100 dollars or more in the UK. My mother is visiting my sister in Phoenix, Arizona at the moment and if possible I would like her to bringme a calliper back. Can anyone advise on a particular model, supplier and cost. I believe it is possible to buy a custom made base suitable dowelling jig.Thanks in advance. John KennedyResearch TechnicianDepartment of SurgeryWestern InfirmaryGlasgow John Before you go spending a fortune on new equipment, try a WANTED ad inLOOT.This can be accessed easily enough on the net. Search at LOOT.COM. I'vebought all sorts of essentials through this medium, including an excellentMyford lathe at about 20% of the new price. Good luck John Cooper from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Nov 4 08:12:52 1997 Subject: Re: making ferrules In a message dated 11/4/97 9:58:02 AM, you wrote: I have seen good stainless ferrules made from solid stock, It is cheap andavailable and strong. I would not recommend trying stainless ferrulesfromtubing. The stuff is hard to solder correctly, and you may have troublefinding it in a free maching grade in tubing form.Monel is a high nickel-low copper alloy known for corrosion resistance.Isuspect it would make a great ferrule, but might be expensive anddifficultto obtain.Beryllium copper is a real specialty and would be extremely expensive anddifficult to find. from delaney@acc.mcneese.edu Tue Nov 4 08:29:14 1997 (8.6.12/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA06858 for ;Tue, 4 Nov 1997 08:29:11 -0600 Subject: Re: making ferrules Monel may be up to 33% copper depending on grade, and is usedextensivelyin reactors and systems needing high chemical resistance (except toHCl/HNO3). It is a bit on the expensive side compared to stainless steel. Mark in LA On Tue, 4 Nov 1997 TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/4/97 9:58:02 AM, you wrote: strength and other qualities for good ferrules when compared to such metals as stainless steels, monel, and beryllium copper, makes good ferrules and has long been a favorite. >> I have seen good stainless ferrules made from solid stock, It is cheapandavailable and strong. I would not recommend trying stainless ferrulesfromtubing. The stuff is hard to solder correctly, and you may have troublefinding it in a free maching grade in tubing form.Monel is a high nickel-low copper alloy known for corrosion resistance.Isuspect it would make a great ferrule, but might be expensive anddifficultto obtain.Beryllium copper is a real specialty and would be extremely expensiveanddifficult to find. from Bopep@aol.com Tue Nov 4 10:22:55 1997 Subject: Re: making ferrules Monel sounds interesting, I know it's used for plating piston valves intrumpets, euphoniums, tubas and the like...should be slippery and wearresistant I'd think.Hoffhines from CALucker@aol.com Tue Nov 4 13:06:25 1997 Subject: Re: making ferrules Give Duronz a try. You cabn get solid duronz from Alaska Copper and BrassinSeattle. It is available in two levels of aluminum content. You know thestuff. It is what Winston uses.My only complaint about Duronz is that it is not as easy to machine as NS. Isus[pect my problem is that I have never discovered the correct cuttingtoolshape, speed and cutting fluid. The problem is that duronz has someproperties of aluminum and some of brass. As you machinists know, youdon'ttreat those two materials the same way. Any machinists out there whocanhelp ?Thanks from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Nov 4 18:09:16 1997 Subject: Uslan To the list,Upon my return from 3 weeks in Montana (bird shooting, that is) followedimmediately by a steelhead trip to Lake Ontario streams, there were 478messages in my mailbox, quite a few of which were not from Jon. Would appreciate some help. I acquired a very beat up Uslan and of coursethat is my icon. Would like to restore it and need info. The inscription onthe rod is : SPENCER ROD LFSIE ?? 8500 4 1/2 OZ by USLAN INC. Wouldlike to know: original length (probably 8 feet?), line size, color of wraps,vintage, any other info on tapers, history, what-have-you.I can respond with some very nice soft hackles from huns or sharptailsorauthentic CDC. But no smoked steelheads. I struck out. Bill from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 4 18:50:01 1997 Subject: Re: RE: Norwich rod Ken,Thanks for the info-the rod's not hollow built and one tip was used and Itook a small set out of it .I believe the owner must have fallen with it- thefinish was chipped over one wrap of the tip's base snake guide which I wasable to fix. BTW- Davd Norwich does beautiful work.Thanks again,Hank Woolmam from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.mail.saic.com Wed Nov 5 07:56:401997 1997 13:56:33 UT 05:56:36 -0800 Subject: Re: Uslan Bill: I assume that some of the sections are short and you can't really tell howlong the rod originally was (is this true?) If it's a 3 piece Uslan it'salmost certainly an 8'6" rod; the "8500" model number is anotherindication. I'm pretty sure that the Spencer model was an impregnated model, but Idon'tknow the details of what Uslan used (acrylic compound?) Most Uslanshave reelseats with cork spacers. The lighter ones had a bright aluminum s/b andtheheavier ones a bright aluminum downlocking affair. Wraps were not tippedandvaried in color: brown, rust, orange shades were used. Hope this helps. --Rich------------------------------ To the list,Upon my return from 3 weeks in Montana (bird shooting, that is) followedimmediately by a steelhead trip to Lake Ontario streams, there were 478messages in my mailbox, quite a few of which were not from Jon. Would appreciate some help. I acquired a very beat up Uslan and of coursethat is my icon. Would like to restore it and need info. The inscription onthe rod is : SPENCER ROD LFSIE ?? 8500 4 1/2 OZ by USLAN INC. Wouldlike to know: original length (probably 8 feet?), line size, color of wraps,vintage, any other info on tapers, history, what-have-you.I can respond with some very nice soft hackles from huns or sharptailsorauthentic CDC. But no smoked steelheads. I struck out. Bill ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 16:12:10 -0800 19:12:08-0500 #23425)with ESMTP id forRICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.mail.saic.com; Tue, 4 Nov 1997 19:12:07 - Subject: Uslan from Crossview1@aol.com Wed Nov 5 10:58:09 1997 Subject: Re: Thanks to the List -- Oven Completed Mark. Thanks for the message re the oven. It was interesting. Do youknowhow much you spent at the end of the day to get it made? Bill. from MasjC1@aol.com Wed Nov 5 17:42:40 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Thanks to the List -- Oven Completed In a message dated 11/5/97 5:03:07 PM, you wrote: Bill, The invoice from Grand Technologies was for $122.37 which included themicastrip heater, Robert Shaw 5320-175 thermostat and 5 feet of high tempwire.These were the big ticket items. The duct work, insulation and sheet tincameto $20.00. The electrical wire, plug and box were approximately $14.00.Thegrand total comes to $160.00. Mark ColeHouston, TXLeadville, CO from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Nov 5 18:07:52 1997 Subject: Kitchen from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Nov 5 18:08:00 1997 Subject: Kitchen Electric Ovens Hi Tony,Am taking the liberty of sending this to the list since it may be ofgeneral interest. When I first was liberated by Chris and went nodelessthethought of using my wife's oven sounded great. No more long cluges.(Forgiveme, Tom). But my wife warned me that her oven appeared to run hotterthanthe dial readings indicated. She was right on. When tested, the old GE runsas much as 70 degrees high at some dial setting (F, that is. This is USA)Also the delta was not consistant. So when my wife was not around I ran aseries of tests with sample cane pieces and found a setting that gives menice results using 9 minutes exposure. This should be great unless the linevoltage changes or the calrod element needs replacing. I really can'tcomment on 30-40 minutes versus 9 minutes. What I look for is just a bitofcolor change. But an honest 200 degrees C (392 degrees F) for 30 minuteseven down under should probably char pretty badly. Bill from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Wed Nov 5 18:44:01 1997 lincoln.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00591 for; Wed, 5 Nov 1997 19:44:14 -0500 Subject: Tung Oil Any thoughts re: tung oil finish? I've built 3 rods finished with tung oiland fished them for the past 2-3 seasons. They seem to be holding up ok sofar. Does anyone have any longterm results and info re: tung oil? from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Nov 5 21:17:17 1997 mail.clarityconnect.comwith SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.2); Wed, 5 Nov 1997 22:17:32 -0500 I just wanted to make sure that you had received the general information about the binders I had sent out. Take care.Jon LintvetIthaca, New York(607) 277-9781 (800) 836-7558 from jbr842@airmail.net Thu Nov 6 04:11:52 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.216) with smtp for Subject: Test Haven't received any postings for several days....this is a test from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 6 07:00:57 1997 Thu, 6 Nov 1997 21:00:44 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Kitchen Electric Ovens On Wed, 5 Nov 1997, Bill Fink wrote: Hi Tony,Am taking the liberty of sending this to the list since it may be ofgeneral interest. When I first was liberated by Chris and went nodelessthethought of using my wife's oven sounded great. No more long cluges.(Forgiveme, Tom). But my wife warned me that her oven appeared to run hotterthanthe dial readings indicated. She was right on. When tested, the old GErunsas much as 70 degrees high at some dial setting (F, that is. This is USA)Also the delta was not consistant. So when my wife was not around I ranaseries of tests with sample cane pieces and found a setting that givesmenice results using 9 minutes exposure. This should be great unless thelinevoltage changes or the calrod element needs replacing. I really can'tcomment on 30-40 minutes versus 9 minutes. What I look for is just abit ofcolor change. But an honest 200 degrees C (392 degrees F) for 30minuteseven down under should probably char pretty badly. Bill Bill,I guess I should test the temp just for the record, but regardless of the actual temp I think it still comes down to starting at a time/temp and gradually increasing times untill you get what you're after.Are you placing the (presumably split only cane) on a tray in the oven or on racks? I know if any cane hangs over the biscuit (cookie) tray it'll be chared. The reason I use the tray is so the cane can stay in the oven longer than on racks only would allow.I think I can remember Chris writing to me that he is using something near 180c for around 15 mins, and placing the scarfed splines in a kind of radiator cabinet to avoid moisture re-entry but I don't have the email now to check. Are you doing anything re. heat moisture re-entry?. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@rhco.com Thu Nov 6 07:12:20 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id IAA14900 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Tung Oil I've used a tung oil finish on all but my last rod (I used a dipped sparvarnish). I haven't been building for very long so I can't comment onthe long term results but there are a lot of builders who have beenusing pure tung oil as a finish for a long time. I would suggest thatyou use a wax of some sort (Wayne's book has a great concoction) to helpseal the pores more than just the oil, though. I usually test a sectionwith a drop of water and then wax, then test again. If the wax workswell you'll notice the drop beads up very nicely, just like a freshlywaxed car. Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA -----Original Message-----From: Karen Moran [SMTP:moran@lincoln.midcoast.com]Sent: Monday, November 03, 1997 11:19 AM Subject: Tung Oil Any thoughts re: tung oil finish? I've built 3 rods finished with tungoiland fished them for the past 2-3 seasons. They seem to be holding upok sofar. Does anyone have any longterm results and info re: tung oil? from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Nov 6 09:22:27 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Binding questions I just tried binding my first sections on the binder I built myself.(Garrison, Cattanach, Kreider, etc. hybrid) I've got a problem I don'tquite understand, and maybe you can help. When I bound the first set ofstrips, the binder beat them up pretty badly. Not the loose endsflopping around, but the hexagonally joined strips. All six corners onthe rod section are peened between every wrap of the binding thread. Doyou think the drive belt, which is a fairly heavy, stiff cotton twine,could cause the strips to be damaged? Or is it the supports? I used aseries of four plant hooks which appear to be the same steel used inbolts. For weight I hung a 1 lb. coffee can on a pulley, and used alittle sand, about 1/3 full. My guess is that it weighs about 1 1/2pounds.Any insight would be helpful. I'd hate to scrap the thing and startover. Harry Boydfbcwin@fsbnet.comI didn't ruin any strips since I noticed it immediately and it was onthe surplus ends. I then ran through a scrap section from an old bamboorod and got the same marks over its length. It looks as though youroughly pressed your thumbnail into every corner about every 3/8" from flyfisher@rhco.com Thu Nov 6 12:26:52 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id NAA29470 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Break Well, I received the phone call. The very first rod I sold has beenbroken. He said he broke it trying to free the fly from the trees. It was a 6' one-piece and the break is about 10 inches below the tip.Three strips are broken then the break continues for about 2 inches andthen the other three strips break. Should I attempt to splice a newpiece in or make a tip and make it a two-piece? I know that it wouldhave to be a smaller line size to make up for the weight of a ferrulebut it seems it would keep a better action than to have a 5 or 6 inchsplice. Not to mention you'd have a difference in color for the spliceseeing as how the rod was flamed and I may not be able to match thecoloration. Any suggestions? Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Nov 6 12:50:18 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA247242218; Thu, 6 Nov 1997 10:50:18 -0800 Subject: RE: Break Your situation brings up another point. How many bamboo rodmakers out there send along some literature explaining maintanence, and user information to their customers. I'm picturing your customer yanking the rod with a "J" hook in the tip area trying to break the tippet or pull the fly loose. Fisherman who are newer to bamboo might not realize this is a risky procedure. I'm also thinking of other techniques that are important such as drying the rod before storage, keeping it away from intense heat sources (the sun inside a car), cleaning and using an appropriate lubricant on dirty, tight ferrules rather than grinding the male ferrule down with sandpaper, breaking stuck leaders off by pulling the rod directly toward you with tip pointed at the hangup, etc. I know most buyers might know all this stuff but it might be an advantage to send along an instruction sheet to emphasize everything and maybeavoid costly damage. I know warranties are expected these days but Ipersonally believe you're being pretty nice to fix the rod given the means by which it was broke. On the other hand at least the customer was honest and didn't tell you the rod broke when he was casting it. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from flyfisher@rhco.com Thu Nov 6 13:15:04 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id OAA01989 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Break At this point I have not said anything to him about cost. I'm waitingto see what amount of time and work it's going to take to get itrepaired. I'm thinking that I would charge if I had to build a new tipand put in a ferrule. Do most people charge for these types of repairsor is it on a "per-break" basis? Brian -----Original Message-----From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL [SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu]Sent: Thursday, November 06, 1997 1:36 PM Subject: RE: Break Your situation brings up another point. How many bamboo rodmakers out there send along some literature explaining maintanence, and user information to their customers. I'm picturing your customer yankingthe rod with a "J" hook in the tip area trying to break the tippet or pullthe fly loose. Fisherman who are newer to bamboo might not realize thisis a risky procedure. I'm also thinking of other techniques that areimportant such as drying the rod before storage, keeping it away from intenseheat sources (the sun inside a car), cleaning and using an appropriatelubricant on dirty, tight ferrules rather than grinding the male ferrule downwith sandpaper, breaking stuck leaders off by pulling the rod directlytoward you with tip pointed at the hangup, etc. I know most buyers might know all this stuff but it might be anadvantage to send along an instruction sheet to emphasize everything and maybeavoid costly damage. I know warranties are expected these days but Ipersonally believe you're being pretty nice to fix the rod given the means bywhich it was broke. On the other hand at least the customer was honest anddidn't tell you the rod broke when he was casting it. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Nov 6 13:31:49 1997 Subject: Re: Break In a message dated 11/6/97 6:27:41 PM, you wrote: Brian - A properly done splice will not affect the action of the rod. Iassume the break is between the 2nd and third guides. I would cut back tojust in front of the third guide, and hide the splice underneath it. If thereplacement part is not quite dark enough, there is nothing wrong withstaining it. Adding a ferrule could change the rod by a whole line size, but it is not asure thing. Was the line size borderline to begin with? Try running thetaperthrough Hexrod both ways and see what you get.Now, about your choice of owners for your rods................ from flyfisher@rhco.com Thu Nov 6 14:25:39 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id PAA27591 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Break Thanks for the advice. My only question is that I've read aboutsplicing in Wayne's book but don't know how long a splice should be.Should it be the same as nodeless rods, about 6 degrees? That wouldmake two splices of about 2 inches in length. Or, should they beshorter to completely hide under the guides? Thanks. Brian -----Original Message-----From: TSmithwick@aol.com [SMTP:TSmithwick@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, November 06, 1997 2:31 PM Subject: Re: Break In a message dated 11/6/97 6:27:41 PM, you wrote: piece in or make a tip and make it a two-piece? I know that it wouldhave to be a smaller line size to make up for the weight of aferrule>> Brian - A properly done splice will not affect the action of the rod.Iassume the break is between the 2nd and third guides. I would cut backtojust in front of the third guide, and hide the splice underneath it.If thereplacement part is not quite dark enough, there is nothing wrong withstaining it. Adding a ferrule could change the rod by a whole line size, but it isnot asure thing. Was the line size borderline to begin with? Try runningthe taperthrough Hexrod both ways and see what you get.Now, about your choice of owners for your rods................ from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Nov 6 16:07:53 1997 Subject: Re: RE: Break In a message dated 11/6/97 9:38:29 PM, you wrote: If anything, I would make the splice longer, about 4 degrees angle. If youcan't hide the whole thing under the guide, let one end extend and do aninvisible wrap on it. Use a good glue, these joints get a lot of stress. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 6 18:25:40 1997 Fri, 7 Nov 1997 08:25:28 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Break On Thu, 6 Nov 1997, Thoman, Brian wrote: Well, I received the phone call. The very first rod I sold has beenbroken. He said he broke it trying to free the fly from the trees. It was a 6' one-piece and the break is about 10 inches below the tip.Three strips are broken then the break continues for about 2 inches andthen the other three strips break. Should I attempt to splice a newpiece in or make a tip and make it a two-piece? I know that it wouldhave to be a smaller line size to make up for the weight of a ferrulebut it seems it would keep a better action than to have a 5 or 6 inchsplice. Not to mention you'd have a difference in color for the spliceseeing as how the rod was flamed and I may not be able to match thecoloration. Any suggestions? Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA Apart from matching the colour, you'll find making a section to scarf to both breaks would be a lot easier than making a new tip and fittingferrules.I doubt you'd notice a change in action because of the scarf and this is something you'll wind up having to do sometime anyhow.Try using a 1:20 angle and epoxy and wrap with white silk if you're after as invisable a repair as possible or if the scarf runs under a guide use the guide binding and put some more wraps using the same colours for the guides at the other end of the scarf. Even though this can't be called invisable by not trying to hide it it tends to look ok as it just looks the same as the guides.If the join is well done and the owner dosn't mind it, try not using any binding on the scarf at all, I've repaired one of my rods this way without any failure in use so far. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Nov 6 22:33:00 1997 Subject: Re: Binding questions At 09:23 06/11/97 -0600, you wrote:I just tried binding my first sections on the binder I built myself.(Garrison, Cattanach, Kreider, etc. hybrid) I've got a problem I don'tquite understand, and maybe you can help. When I bound the first set ofstrips, the binder beat them up pretty badly. Not the loose endsflopping around, but the hexagonally joined strips. All six corners onthe rod section are peened between every wrap of the binding thread. Doyou think the drive belt, which is a fairly heavy, stiff cotton twine,could cause the strips to be damaged? Or is it the supports? I used aseries of four plant hooks which appear to be the same steel used inbolts. For weight I hung a 1 lb. coffee can on a pulley, and used alittle sand, about 1/3 full. My guess is that it weighs about 1 1/2pounds.Any insight would be helpful. I'd hate to scrap the thing and startover. Harry Boydfbcwin@fsbnet.comI didn't ruin any strips since I noticed it immediately and it was onthe surplus ends. I then ran through a scrap section from an old bamboorod and got the same marks over its length. It looks as though youroughly pressed your thumbnail into every corner about every 3/8" Harry, My bet is the binding cord follwed by too high tension on the binding cord.Friend had much the same trouble. Don from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Fri Nov 7 00:51:43 1997 Subject: Re: Dial callipers, indicators and dowelling jigs Hi JohnI too have just started building rods and when I went to thefishing show at Chattsworth House this year I meet a really interestingguy from Lincoln. He so far has built mea dial calliper and a set of 5' steel forms (costing £50.00 and £170.00 asfar as I can remember). I have also eventually managed to find someonewhowill sell Tonkin Bamboo wholesale in the U.K. If you want addresses and phone numbers for the above please send me apersonal email and I will check with the guy if it is ok to send you hisdetails. regards Mick Woodruff. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Nov 7 09:16:22 1997 Subject: Re: clear wraps In a message dated 97-11-06 20:29:24 EST, you write: Matt: Tho not extensive, my experience with Poly is that it does notrenderthread wraps clear. Have only tried a couple of brands, tho. Regards,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Nov 7 09:16:52 1997 Subject: Re: Break In a message dated 97-11-07 05:46:34 EST, you write: Mac: Great idea. Thanks.RTyree from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Nov 7 15:30:27 1997 mail.clarityconnect.comwith SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.2); Fri, 7 Nov 1997 15:37:07 -0500 Subject: Binder Brace Info Just a thought. I was talking to a retired machinist that I know and he said the reason you may be having the problems with marks is that aluminum is a dirty metal, vs. stainless steel, being a clean metal.Jon LintvetIthaca, New York(607) 277-9781 (800) 836-7558 from harsha@aros.net Fri Nov 7 22:13:11 1997 Subject: silk thread I have just purchased a W@M Granger Victory. I am going to have to dosome minor work on the rod. Does anyone know where I might find someorange and black Jasper silk. Thanks in advance, Mike Harsha from gwr@seanet.com Fri Nov 7 23:22:57 1997 VAA20479 for ; Fri, 7 Nov 1997 21:22:52 - Subject: Re: silk thread Mike, Check with Grahame Maisey of Belvoirdale. I picked up some white &black jasper from him a couple of months ago. Phone: (215) 886-7211.Good Luck! Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rods At 09:07 PM 11/7/97 -0700, you wrote:I have just purchased a W@M Granger Victory. I am going to have to dosome minor work on the rod. Does anyone know where I might find someorange and black Jasper silk. Thanks in advance, Mike Harsha from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 8 00:40:06 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA25938 Subject: Re: silk thread John M. Harsha wrote: I have just purchased a W@M Granger Victory. I am going to have to dosome minor work on the rod. Does anyone know where I might find someorange and black Jasper silk. Thanks in advance, Mike Harsha Yes, Belvoirdale (sp?) in Pennsylvania...they have a website (don't havethe URL handy). George from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Nov 8 06:08:57 1997 Subject: Electric Kitchen Ovens Hi TonyI tried the gradually-increasing-routine at first and had some disasters.Not too repeatable. I seem to do better by waiting until the light comes onwhich signifies thermostat cycling I believe. Then I quickly dump 20 or sosplit pieces onto the rack and begin timing when the light comes on again.Have not used trays. The only concession I make to avoid moisture reentryisto build rods only after the heat (our woodstove mostly) comes on in thefall. Tom is probably right in that there is really little we can do toprevent gradual moisture aquilibrium returning in the finished cane. ButI'msure some kind of beneficial change occurs with heat because I once builtanon-heat treated rod which bent and stayed bent. Ouch!In the last 30 years I've screwed up rods in just about every possibleway. That's experience, man! Bill from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Nov 8 11:13:33 1997 Subject: RE:silk thread RO>I have just purchased a W@M Granger Victory. I am going to have to doRO>some minor work on the rod. Does anyone know where I might findsomeRO>orange and black Jasper silk. RO>Thanks in advance, RO>Mike Harsha Mike, Email me off list if you can't get the correct thread dia. (smallest) from Belvoirdale - I have a large spool of original Granger blk/orangethat I bought last year. I'd be willing to sell you some thread from myspool. Note - this was not cheap, so be prepared to send 1st born male child. Details if you can't get some from Belvordale. Don Burns Flyfisher@cmix.com from mrj@seanet.com Sat Nov 8 19:36:29 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA09749 for Subject: test ignore test-- Martin Jensen from jbr842@airmail.net Sat Nov 8 21:00:37 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.216) with smtp for Subject: Re: silk thread flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>I have just purchased a W@M Granger Victory. I am going to have todoRO>some minor work on the rod. Does anyone know where I might findsomeRO>orange and black Jasper silk. RO>Thanks in advance, RO>Mike Harsha Mike, Email me off list if you can't get the correct thread dia. (smallest) from Belvoirdale - I have a large spool of original Granger blk/orangethat I bought last year. I'd be willing to sell you some thread from myspool. Note - this was not cheap, so be prepared to send 1st born male child. Details if you can't get some from Belvordale. Don Burns Flyfisher@cmix.com The URL for Belvoirdale is http://www.belvoirdale.com Jim Bryan, Cane Consumer Extroidinare from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Sun Nov 9 00:22:47 1997 Subject: Adhesives In Mr. Zimmys adhesives article, he stated, "Melamine bonds to slicksurfaces- like other melimines. In other respects, it seems to be a good prospect for cane makers. I know that there is an old Leonard formulakicking around for a urea formaldehyde/melamine mixture. I think I could exhume it if anyone were interested. " I was looking for this "recipe"andwas unable to find it. Could Mr. Zimmy expand on it, for me. Paul Whitely from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 9 08:02:52 1997 Subject: Re: Adhesives Paul Whitely wrote: In Mr. Zimmys adhesives article, he stated, "Melamine bonds to slicksurfaces- like other melimines. In other respects, it seems to be a good prospect for cane makers. I know that there is an old Leonard formulakicking around for a urea formaldehyde/melamine mixture. I think I could exhume it if anyone were interested. " I was looking for this "recipe"andwas unable to find it. Could Mr. Zimmy expand on it, for me. Paul WhitelyYes, American Cyanimid makes a proprietary mixture called Melurac. It isavailable through them. Also, one can easily add to either liquid or drymelamine to any urea formaldehyde preparation. Custompak Adhesives isprobably the best company from which to aquire the materials. Custom-Pak Adhesives INC11047 Lambs Lane Newark Ohio 430551(800)454- 4583 fax (614)763-2888 Let me know how you do.John Zimny from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Nov 9 10:57:31 1997 Subject: Snake Eye Sizes Hi I have a copy of the Masters Guide To Building A Bamboo Fly Rod and thisrefers to snake eye sizes as #1, #1/0, #2/0 etc. My local tackle shop onlyspecify ring sizes by internal ring diameter, does anyone know of a way totranslate between the two methods. Thanks in advance Mick Woodruff. from mrj@seanet.com Sun Nov 9 12:37:31 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA22978 for Subject: Re: Snake Eye Sizes mick woodruff wrote: HiI have a copy of the Masters Guide To Building A Bamboo Fly Rod and thisrefers to snake eye sizes as #1, #1/0, #2/0 etc. My local tackle shoponlyspecify ring sizes by internal ring diameter, does anyone know of a waytotranslate between the two methods. Thanks in advance Mick Woodruff. I think you are confusing (or your dealer is) snake guides withstripping guides. Stripping guides are measured by internal diameter ofthe ring and snake guideshave no ring and are given a number like 0/1,0/2, 1,2, ect. This corr5esponds to the length and the hoop dimensions. -- Martin Jensen from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Nov 9 15:40:36 1997 Subject: Line query + tight ferrules Can anyone tell, from the following description, what type of used fly lineIrecentlyacquired? A double tapered, amber, woven line that has all theappearances of silk, but has a clear plastic coat. The taper is woven intothe line likesilk. Were there transition fly lines during the changeover from silk toplastic that were woven of synthetic filiments and plastic coated, or silklines given clear plastic exteriors? The line has the density of a #5 andthe feel of silk when casting. It showed up on an early Japanese fly reel.Any info would be appreciated. Tip: Have a friend who has a new 3-pc bamboo fly rod with n/s ferrulesthatbecame tight. He had an old bottle of silicon liquid and put one small dropon fingers and applied to both ferrules. They inserted easily and, after amornings fishing, parted very well. It is a few days later and he sees nodetrimental effect to the ferrules. Anyone have any information thatmightindicate that the procedure is ill advised? If not, it may prove to be avery helpful bit of information. Regards,Richard Tyree from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Nov 9 17:46:38 1997 Subject: Uslan Stresses To the List,This list is a powerful info source. Rich Margiotta mentioned inresponding to my Uslan query, that my old rod was impregnated. Sureenough,looking under years of junk it was indeed impregnated, not varnished. Thismeant that when computing stresses there was four thousanths more canetowork with. This reduced the calculated stress level just below the ferrule from 190000 to 178000 oz/in2. Not great but a little more comfortable.Jorge Carcao asked about calculating stress in 5-siders. I use BAMBOOFLYROD TAPER PROGRAM supplied by Len Histand of Doylestown, PA. Len'ssoftware does tapers, stress calculations, modulus calculations and a lotmore for 4, 5 and 6 side geometry. It was offered in TPF a few years back.Bill from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Sun Nov 9 17:57:40 1997 Subject: Re: Adhesives J. C. Zimny wrote: Yes, American Cyanimid makes a proprietary mixture called Melurac. Itisavailable through them. Also, one can easily add to either liquid ordrymelamine to any urea formaldehyde preparation. Custompak Adhesives isprobably the best company from which to aquire the materials. Custom-Pak Adhesives INC11047 Lambs LaneNewark Ohio 430551(800)454- 4583 fax (614)763-2888 Let me know how you do.John Zimny John, quiteodd, since the activator for the melamine mixture is an acid. Is this(the acid) also added along with the walnut hulls / flour that is used from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sun Nov 9 18:03:45 1997 Subject: Re: Tip Richard,I have always been taught that nothing should be put on NSferrules. Not nose wax, ear wax or hair dressing or any othermaterial. The primary reason is that although such aids do sometimeshelp in the present they all have a tendency to collect dirt and dustparticles and have an abrasive action on the metal. In time they canlead to a sloppy fit. My recommendation is that if the ferrule fit istoo tight, it should be dressed by a knowledgeable and competant artisanto fit properly. Ralph Moon from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 9 19:22:53 1997 Subject: Re: Adhesives Paul Whitely wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Yes, American Cyanimid makes a proprietary mixture called Melurac. Itisavailable through them. Also, one can easily add to either liquid ordrymelamine to any urea formaldehyde preparation. Custompak Adhesivesisprobably the best company from which to aquire the materials. Custom-Pak Adhesives INC11047 Lambs LaneNewark Ohio 430551(800)454- 4583 fax (614)763-2888 Let me know how you do.John Zimny John, quiteodd, since the activator for the melamine mixture is an acid. Is this(the acid) also added along with the walnut hulls / flour that is used Yes, Urea formaldehydes are "kicked" by turning the mixture to the acidside. This is usually done through the addition of an acid salt.John from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Nov 9 20:04:45 1997 Subject: Book Search Does anyone know where I can obtain a 1st edition of "Amature Rodmaking"byPerry Frazer. If so, please contact me off list. Your help with my requestwill be greatly appreciated. Regards,Richard Tyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Nov 9 20:20:37 1997 Subject: Line query + tight ferrules Greetings: Can anyone identify, from the following description, what type of used flyline I recentlyacquired? A double tapered, amber, woven line that has all theappearancesof silk, but has a clear plastic coat. The taper is woven into the line likesilk. Were there transition fly lines during the changeover from silk toplastic that were woven of synthetic filiments and plastic coated, or silklines given clear plastic exteriors? The line has the density of a #5 andsomewhat the feel of silk when casting. It showed up on an earlyJapanesefly reel. Any info would be appreciated. Tip: Have a friend who has a new 3-pc bamboo fly rod with n/s ferrulesthatbecame tight. He had an old bottle of silicon liquid and put one small dropon fingers and applied to both ferrules. They inserted easily and, after amornings fishing, parted very well. It is a few days later and he sees nodetrimental effect to the ferrules. Anyone have any information thatmightindicate that the procedure is ill advised? If not, it may prove to be avery helpful bit of information. Regards,Richard Tyree from bokstrom@axionet.com Sun Nov 9 21:37:29 1997 Subject: Re: Book Search ----------From: Fallcreek9@aol.com Subject: Book SearchDate: Sunday, November 09, 1997 6:04 PM Does anyone know where I can obtain a 1st edition of "AmatureRodmaking"byPerry Frazer. If so, please contact me off list. Your help with myrequestwill be greatly appreciated. Regards,Richard Tyree Hello Richard: Sorry, can't help with the above. But just out of curiosity,do you have in your collection The Angler's Workshop, Vol. 1, RODMAKINGFORBEGINNERS by Perry D. Frazer, 1908? I have a copy if you're interested.Keep well.John Bokstrom from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Mon Nov 10 00:10:49 1997 Subject: Re: Book Search 0219CAAD9F41EA6679054AC5" --------------0219CAAD9F41EA6679054AC5 Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: Does anyone know where I can obtain a 1st edition of "AmatureRodmaking" byPerry Frazer. If so, please contact me off list. Your help with myrequestwill be greatly appreciated. Regards,Richard Tyree Try the Fin-N-Feather Gallery, P.O. Box 13, North Granby, CT 06060,203- 653-6557 after 5pm. This is where I got my copy for about $5-10.It was printed in 1947 by The Macmillan Company, of Canada, Limited,Toronto.He talks about building wood rods, with just a short section on cane.All of his measurements are in ?/32". It has a total of 220 pages andis very small in size. Paul Whitely --------------0219CAAD9F41EA6679054AC5 Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote:Does anyone know where I can obtain a 1steditionof "Amature Rodmaking" by with my requestwill be greatly appreciated. Regards,Richard Tyree for of Canada, Limited, Toronto.He talks about building wood rods, with just a short section on and is very small in size. Paul Whitely --------------0219CAAD9F41EA6679054AC5-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Nov 10 07:28:31 1997 Subject: Re: Tip RO>Richard,RO> I have always been taught that nothing should be put on NSRO>ferrules. Not nose wax, ear wax or hair dressing or any otherRO>material. The primary reason is that although such aids do sometimesRO>help in the present they all have a tendency to collect dirt and dustRO>particles and have an abrasive action on the metal. In time they canRO>lead to a sloppy fit. My recommendation is that if the ferrule fit isRO>too tight, it should be dressed by a knowledgeable and competantartisanRO>to fit properly. RO>Ralph Moon I've always tried to clean a ferrule with denatured alcohol and seeingif the fit improves. Just keep the alcohol off the varnish! I've also used U-40's "Ferrule Lube" with great success on tightferrules. (after cleaning) It doesn't seem to leave an "oily" residuebehind. Might be some form of a "moly" in a alcohol-based solution? I'veused it a lot on plated brass ferrules, where I don't want to remove anyof the remaining NI-plating. Don Burns from Thomas.ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon Nov 10 08:37:18 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA26908 for; Mon, 10 Nov 1997 09:37:16 -0500 Subject: Tight Ferrules Hello, My $.02:If the ferrules are tight they should be re-fitted. Oils and lubes are a band-aid to the original problem. The only additive I would use is candle wax, and that is for lose fitting ferrules. Which I need because I did too good of a job of re-fitting tight ferrules ; ) Later,Tom Ausfeld from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Nov 10 09:32:02 1997 Subject: Re: Book Search In a message dated 97-11-10 02:23:57 EST, you write: Hello John: Yes, I am quite interested. Your book may be the one I amlooking for. The date is about right. If you wish to sell the book, pleaselet me know what you want for it. Thanks, John for your response. Hopetheweather is being kind to you. Best Regards,Richard from jczimny@dol.net Mon Nov 10 14:39:08 1997 Subject: Re: Tip flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Richard,RO> I have always been taught that nothing should be put on NSRO>ferrules. Not nose wax, ear wax or hair dressing or any otherRO>material. The primary reason is that although such aids dosometimesRO>help in the present they all have a tendency to collect dirt and dustRO>particles and have an abrasive action on the metal. In time they canRO>lead to a sloppy fit. My recommendation is that if the ferrule fit isRO>too tight, it should be dressed by a knowledgeable and competantartisanRO>to fit properly. RO>Ralph Moon I've always tried to clean a ferrule with denatured alcohol and seeingif the fit improves. Just keep the alcohol off the varnish! I've also used U-40's "Ferrule Lube" with great success on tightferrules. (after cleaning) It doesn't seem to leave an "oily" residuebehind. Might be some form of a "moly" in a alcohol-based solution? I'veused it a lot on plated brass ferrules, where I don't want to remove anyof the remaining NI-plating. Don BurnsIt is my consedered opinion that it cannot hurt a ferrule to lubricateit. However, I would not allow any grit to accumulate. And, even then, Iwould clean it with a little solvent every time that I used the rod.John Zimny from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Mon Nov 10 14:53:33 1997 Subject: Re: Snake Eye Sizes Thanks for the reply Martin, I will try another tackle dealer, the one Ispoke to earlier was not that particularly interested with my enquiryanyway. regards Mick Woodruff. from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Mon Nov 10 16:36:32 1997 Subject: Payne Rods I am doing a little research, and am trying to find out who is the"Payne" name owner. If anyone might know, please give me their name &possibly a phone #. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Nov 10 17:02:02 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA287642922; Mon, 10 Nov 1997 15:02:02 -0800 Subject: RE: Payne The E.F. Payne name was/is owned by Dave Holloman. He was formerly from Eugene, OR but is now located in either Sisters or Bend, Oregon?. Sorry, no exact location or phone number. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Nov 10 17:21:21 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA047064081; Mon, 10 Nov 1997 15:21:21 -0800 Subject: RE: Payne Rods Part II O.K. I walked over to the library and grabbed a Central Oregon Phonebook. Here it is: E.F. Payne Rod Company652 Aylor Ct.Sisters, OR 97759 #541-549-1544 What better location than 15 minutes from the Metolius and 30 minutes from the DesChutes. Any of you on the list that havn't visited Central Oregon and participated in the trout fishing here are missing..........well never mind.....the fishing is so, so....no need to come out......goodbye!!!!! Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from penr0295@uidaho.edu Mon Nov 10 18:03:50 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id QAA19585 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Payne Rods Paul, the current owner of the E.F. Payne name is David Holloman ofSisters, Oregon. His number is: 541-549-1544 Thomas PenroseBend, OR from mathieu@compmore.net Mon Nov 10 18:08:43 1997 SAA19811 for ; Mon, 10 Nov 1997 18:54:07 via SMTP by mail.compmore.net, id smtpd019804; Mon Nov 10 18:54:001997 Subject: Re: Uslan Stresses Bill I was wonering if you would have a copy of that program or do you knowwhere someone could find ithanks John McKinnonOttawa, ontarioBill Fink wrote: To the List,This list is a powerful info source. Rich Margiotta mentioned inresponding to my Uslan query, that my old rod was impregnated. Sureenough,looking under years of junk it was indeed impregnated, not varnished.Thismeant that when computing stresses there was four thousanths morecanetowork with. This reduced the calculated stress level just below theferrule from 190000 to 178000 oz/in2. Not great but a little morecomfortable.Jorge Carcao asked about calculating stress in 5-siders. I useBAMBOOFLYROD TAPER PROGRAM supplied by Len Histand of Doylestown, PA.Len's software does tapers, stress calculations, modulus calculations and alotmore for 4, 5 and 6 side geometry. It was offered in TPF a few yearsback.Bill from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Nov 10 18:14:16 1997 Subject: Re: Tight Ferrules And the consensus is - refit the ferrules! In this case, the rod was kept ina non climate controlled environment, but has been moved into a heatedhouse.Will be of interest to see if the ferrules loosen up a bit; ref. the oldthreads concerning moisture encroachment. Will let you know if I hear oftheresults.RTyree from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Nov 10 18:16:13 1997 Subject: Wanted - Herter's In my constant state of absent mindedness(it went with the hair) I am inpursuit of the Herter's amateur rodmaking book - I suspect I need to readcrusty ol' George's words again - looking for a reader copy - Please e- mailof list to Waynewaynecatt@aol.com from M1L2@aol.com Mon Nov 10 18:37:23 1997 Subject: Muzzle loading rifles Please excuse this foray into foreign territory. I have been following the list for several months and I am impressed bythequality of information that is exchanged. My brother is interested in building muzzle loading rifles, particularly ofthe Pennsylvania long rifle variety. He has built several from kits and isready to move on to building from scratch. Does anyone know of a list thatsupports this activity in the manner that Rodmakers does for bamboo rodbuilding. Thank you. Myron Ward from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Nov 10 20:50:19 1997 Subject: Re: Book Search John,David Johnson at The Book Store in W. Bridgewater MA (508)588- 4774has/had copies of the book. I don't think the books were first printing.One copy cost $22.50 and the other $20. Good luck. Kurt Loup from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Nov 10 21:00:58 1997 Subject: Re: Book Search Sorry, Last post should have been addressed to Richard. Kurt from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Nov 11 08:35:44 1997 Subject: Re: Tip In a message dated 97-11-11 08:15:53 EST, you write: Hello John: Guess the only interesting part of this is what will therod/ferrules do now that it is being stored out of the high relativehumidityit was in before. Really quite interested in that aspect. The rod has 3dipped coats of P&L Var Mor.Regards,Richard from Canerods@aol.com Tue Nov 11 08:49:40 1997 Subject: Re: Tip In a message dated 97-11-11 07:17:18 EST, you write: John, I pulled out my bottle of U-40 "Ferrule Lube", it doesn't say what it's madefrom. It does say that it contains Acetone. (the carrier solution?) The front of the bottle has the following claims - "Eliminates sticking ferrules.""No material buildup, no collecting of dirt and grit.""Ferrules meet more postive. Cannot be loosened by casting, yet remaineasyto dismantle" I've found all of the claims to be true (so far) and have not needed to refitmany ferrules that seemed, on first look, to need to be ground down. Some plated brass ferrules that were in bad shape, won't mate up at all,slidtogether like NS after ~2 coats. I get a lot of crud (tarnished brass?) offthe swab after the first application. I've also lost a few cotton swabcotton's down inside female ferrules too. Buy a good brand of swab andthenalso have a small jeweler's screwdriver handy to fish the wanderingcottonout. So try at your own risk. Good stuff, Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Nov 11 13:00:12 1997 Subject: Ferrule fit Before you go out and refit a ferrule on an old rod,I would store the rod inside, or in a low humidityenvironment for a couple of months. You mayfind out that the cane has swelled, making theferrule fit tightly. If you refit it and then keep therod inside, because now you fish with it, or therefinish job made it useable again, etc., you mayfind that the ferrule gets too loose in a while. With a new rod, I wait two months after installingthe ferrule before I decide if it needs refitting ornot. Usually it does, but in the first couple ofmonths the cane is coming to equilibrium, andfitting the ferrule in that period will be like chasinga moving target. Darryl Hayashida from CALucker@aol.com Tue Nov 11 16:37:58 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule fit I have been building rods for quite a long while now, but I must admit youhave me bewildered. How the heck are you building your rods if after twomonths your new rods usually need referruling? How do you account foryourbamboo shrinking or your ferrules stretching? Are you ferruling your rodsections with the bamboo soaking wet?Just a tip that most people have already figured out -- heat treat yourcaneand keep the moisture content lower than the relative humidity ofwhereverthe rod will be spending its useful and stored life. If you continue to haveproblems properly seating ferrules, use some hot silica sand beforeseatingferrules -- the same way an optomitrist does to soften plastic glassesframes. Also, use Pliobond.Do the caps and collars fall off your rod tubes too? from dgl@zeppo.geosurv.gov.nf.ca Tue Nov 11 18:58:39 1997 VAA04402; Tue, 11 Nov 1997 21:28:55 -0330 (NST) Subject: advice required Dear rodmakers all I seek your advice and forebearance. I am very much a novice,and not the greatest worker with my hands anyway. I'm sure youwill find some of my questions somewhat naive but you are arethe best resource available to me. I recently was given tworather old rods by an acquaintance - he is in his 70s and therods belonged to his father, who used them in the west ofEngland. One is a Hardy greenheart, and Hardy customer servicekindly identified it for me via e-mail as being bought in 1913.I've been advised not to fish with this one. The other is a Farlow, so far unidentifed. It is cane, 3 piece,about 9 1/2 ft, and has a serial number of 10839 embossed in thebutt. I assume that it is pre WW2 in vintage. It is hard totell much else, as at some point in the past it was covered witha thick coat of green paint. It has 3 tips, possibly not alloriginal. I asked about the rod on the flyfish list, DonJamieson replied, and has encouraged me to repair and renovatethis rod. he also pointed me to this list. I should be clearthat I would like a fishable rod, and am not too worried aboutexactly matching the original rod. He has given me somepreliminary tips but a few questions have arisen. I havestripped off the green paint, revealing a honey-coloured cane,wrapped with blue thread. A couple of small sections have comeunglued, and Don has suggested a method for re-glueing. The major stumbling block just now is that one of the ferrulesis in very poor shape. The female portion has weathered/corroded and has a series of splits parallel to the rod axis. Itclearly needs replacing - I thus need to find a supplier, and ameans of determining a correct size (it connects the mid sectionto the tip). Will I have to replace both male and female parts?How are ferrules sized? And who might have such a thing? A couple of the snake guides are a bit corroded and will needreplacing- can single (English style) guides be obtained, orshould I simply replace the whole set? A couple of quick questions on the next step- would youreccommend clear verithane as a finsh? And should I go looking be found in Newfoundland) or would tying thread work? And (thisis really basic, I know) do you have any tips for a novicethread wrapper? Many thanks in advance for your patience cheers Dave -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Dave Liverman, Internet:dgl@zeppo.geosurv.gov.nf.caNewfoundland Geological Survey, *********************************Department of Natural Resources, * Listowner, QUATERNARY *P.O. Box 8700 * To subscribe send the message *St. John's, Newfoundland, A1B 4J6 * subscribe quaternary your name*Canada * to listserv@morgan.ucs.mun.ca *phone 709-729-4014 **********************************---------------------------------------------- --------------------------------- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Nov 11 19:17:23 1997 Wed, 12 Nov 1997 09:17:03 +0800 (WST) Subject: New magazine I just received an email from the editor of a magazine here in Australia called Flylife with the WWW address of a mag called "The Bamboo Flyrod"The address is as follows www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres.2888Anybody know anything about this mag? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Nov 11 19:59:47 1997 Subject: Re: Payne In a message dated 97-11-11 20:08:26 EST, you write: Mac: I was in Eugene, OR in July, and at that time there was a listing forthe Payne Co. in Springfield which is adjacent to the NE edge of Eugene. Thethen current phone book had a listing of: EF Payne Rod Co, 303 S. 5th St,Suite 127, Springfield - (503) 741-4654. Regards,RTyree from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Tue Nov 11 20:39:32 1997 0000 Subject: Re: New magazine At 09:17 AM 11/12/97 +0800, you wrote:I just received an email from the editor of a magazine here in Australia called Flylife with the WWW address of a mag called "The Bamboo Flyrod"The address is as follows www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres.2888Anybody know anything about this mag? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ well, i never heard of it before you put up the address, but it sounds likeit'll be pretty good.....gonna subscribe to it, see what i get....BTW theaddress you posted was wrong.....the right one is: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ thanks for putting up the link!! ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////____MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net____/// \\\\_\\\\__http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/________ICQ#3782893__\\\ ____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o-------------------------------- --------------`''''''/||\/||||\ from CharlesIrvine@compuserve.com Tue Nov 11 20:39:35 1997 Subject: Wanted - Herter's Wayne, Your welcome to borrow mine for as long as you would like, it is kindamoldy but very readable Chuck Irvine from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Nov 11 20:54:23 1997 Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:54:14 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: New magazine wugate.wustl.edu id UAA00610 On Tue, 11 Nov 1997, Matt Leiderman wrote: At 09:17 AM 11/12/97 +0800, you wrote:I just received an email from the editor of a magazine here in Australia called Flylife with the WWW address of a mag called "The BambooFlyrod"The address is as follows www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres.2888Anybody know anything about this mag? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ well, i never heard of it before you put up the address, but it sounds likeit'll be pretty good.....gonna subscribe to it, see what i get....BTW theaddress you posted was wrong.....the right one is: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ thanks for putting up the link!! Whoops!, sorry about that. Tony ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////____MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net____/// \\\\_\\\\__http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/________ICQ#3782893__\\\ ____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o-------------------------------- --------------`''''''/||\/||||\ /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Nov 11 21:41:51 1997 Subject: The final three A while back Mark was asking advice about the flattening of a plane andconcerned with not being able to get the final dimensions. Mark, don't feelalone. I have heard this question several times. The stages of rod makingaresuch that on the first rod the attitude (or understanding) is such thatgetting through the process is the priority - then as the comfort factorincreases so the the awareness of dimension and other factors. Then, intime,hopefully it makes sense and the finer elements are gleaned - or as theeducation is bought.At the end is a lengthy on the fine tining of the final forms - you willsee it again. But each of the involved tools needs to be at its best. Theplane needs to be flat. The Blade needs to be sharp. the forms need to beflat and the depth gauge as well needs to be in order. The point especially.Consider some of the posible areas that prevent getting to the numbers.With only .003" or so to go it is time for scraping. A situation that occursoften with a scraper is that a shaving will wrap itself around the edge ofthe blade. So after each pass the scraper should be cleaned of waste. Theblade has to be sharp and without burr. These are two of the mostreoccurringproblems there are. Yes, cleaning the scraper after each pass takes timebutif the sraper is cutting at .001'' the you are only 18 passes from beingdonewith an entire section.Follow - the base of the plane and scraper are 5" long. the base of mostdepth gauges is only 2". Three thousandths is less that the thickness of asheet of paper. A nick or scraper chater could be a problem. Then you cheat - when all else fails - cheat. As a last resort I havebrought the strip to its dimensions in segments (5" at a time). The centerofeach 5" segment is the adjusting station. The scraper is used from 2 1/2 "either side of the adjustment station and lifted away at the end of thepassas not to leave a ridge. If a dimension is off I will slide the strip forwardto what would be the accurate point and then I make a pass ( a 5" swipe -centered at the point marked on the strip itself) and recheck.There is something there causing your indifference - very rarely do Ineed to slide a strip ahead. But the forms I use are touched with a filebefore each rod to eliminate any possible bump - I also touch the sole oftheplane and the bottom of the depth gauge. At time we look for big problems where in most cases it is a verrysmallproblem - small enough the it can be over looked. Wayne One of the keys to accurate dimensions is having each of theinvolved toolsat their finest. As for the planing forms this means the two surfaces areflat and the 'V' is a correct 60 degree angle and burr free. The followingtechnique works for new forms as well as used. With new forms it willassuretheir accuracy. On used forms nicks and chatters from scraping can beremoved.To prepare the forms they first should be dismantled and cleanedthoroughlyof any debris using a soft wire brush or stiff paintbrush. Thenreassembledwith the inner faces seated, set them on the workbench. To monitor theprogress coat the faces of the forms with either lay-out die or a coloredmarker.Two files are used, a flat mill and triangle mill, both receive someadapting before use. For surfacing, a flat mill file 12" to 14" in lengthworks best. To make the filing easier a handle is added. However, not asonemight think. To avoid rounding the form surface the file needs to be usedasparallel to the forms as possible. The conventional file handle preventsthis from happening. Instead a block of wood can be mounted to one of thefaces ofthe file just below the teeth where the file is smooth. This smooth area isnot hardened and can be drilled and counter bored for a wood screw to holdthe wood block handle. Counter bore until the screw head is recessed. Thenthe normal handle is bent up slightly to get it out of the way.A 6" mill triangle file is used on the 'V'. For a handle cut a piece of1/4"nylon or plexiglass to the same width as the assembled forms and 5" or soinlength. To attach the file to the handle epoxy glue it down the centerlineofthe width of the handle. The precaution here is to be sure the two surfacesare squeezed together avoiding excess glue canting the file off angle withthe handle. Again bend the normal handle up slightly.Besides the files you will need a file card or brush to clean the flatfile.A toothbrush works well to clean the triangle file. And it would be best tohave a paint brush handy to whisk the filings from the forms. Finally, asmuch as I discourage the use of gloves while making rods, this is one ofthose times where a pair of cloth jersey gloves will protect the hands andnot get in the way.The surfacing of the forms is done first. Lay the file on the forms asparallel as possible, having the front of the file just over hang the edge ofthe forms and the rear of the file just over hang the opposite edge. Fileforward with one hand on the handle and the other hand placing a lightamountof down pressure at the midpoint of the file. Take a few passes with thisfile position and then alternate the file so it over hangs the oppositeedges from before(forming an 'X' pattern) and take a few passes with this newfileposition. The file will need to be cleaned after just a few passes andcleaning the surface of the forms will help make the filing go faster.After a few passes inspect the forms for progress. With new forms acoupleof things might be seen. If the forms weren't surfaced after assembly youmight see removal at just the middle or at just the edges. This is commondueto the inaccuracies of steel manufacturing. Normally if one surfacecontactsat the middle first the opposite surface will contact the edges first. Alsocheck for flatness using a straight edge. Filing should continue until theentire surface evidences file wear. Both sides are surfaced beforeattentionis focused at the 'V'.Before the second phase it is recommended that the sharp edges thatwerejust created be softened. Use the flat mill file and chamfer the fourcornersof the forms. The reason for this is that in the next filing the file will bepulled down the forms with the thumb and first finger resting on thesecorners for a guide. If they are sharp or have burrs these fingers are sureto suffer the consequences.If a triangle file is examined closely, it becomes obvious that thecornersdon't come to a point but are instead flattened. To compensate for this theforms need to be opened enough so that the faces of the file contact thefaces of the 'V'. Perhaps the most accurate method to accomplish this istoset this gap using a set of feeler gauges and to adjust station to station. Afeeler gauge thickness of from .060" to .070" is needed. The key to usingfeeler gauges is to have the same resistance to travel at each location.A general statement is that the triangle file is PULLED the length oftheforms starting at the deepest end. But beyond that there are a few finepoints. After the file is placed in the 'V' rest the middle finger of theright hand on it to hold it in position. Then a visual inspection of thedistance between the form surface and the lower surface of the handle ismadeto assure that the distance on each side is the same. If it isn't the itneeds to be corrected. Finally with the left thumb and first finger pinchtheside of the forms and the handle and pull forward. After each pass the fileand the 'V' should be whisk clean and the 'V' should be inspected forprogress. Remember that with each pass the 'V' is being filed deeper and,especially on the tip side, that too much filing might not allow the formstoadjust to the required numbers. A compromise would be to bring thesurface ofthe 'V' to a 50 present finish. That is 50 present of the surface of the 'V'shows evidence of filing. Proceed with caution. from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Nov 11 22:53:09 1997 0500 Subject: Re: New magazine I went to the page above, and aside from it's obviously unfinished state(hey, everybody's got to start somewhere, right?) none of the names werefamiliar. Can some one let me know if they know the level of experienceof the editorial staff. Hate to part with any coin (the Dutch arerubbing off on me!) unless I'm going to get good value for money. Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Nov 12 00:12:05 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule fit In a message dated 97-11-11 23:38:52 EST, you write: I have been building rods for quite a long while now, but I must admityouhave me bewildered. How the heck are you building your rods if aftertwomonths your new rods usually need referruling? How do you account foryourbamboo shrinking or your ferrules stretching? Are you ferruling yourrodsections with the bamboo soaking wet? You mis-interpreted what I said. I am not re-ferruling, I am simply fittingthe male side into the female side. I guess it depends on what kind offit you want. If you want it so tight it squeaks, then no fitting isrequired.If you do not want your rod returned after a while because the ferrule isstuck, then a little fitting and polishing is required. Darryl Hayashida from plipton@sunvalley.net Wed Nov 12 10:18:27 1997 (208.14.167.13) Subject: Tonka Prince A friend showed me an old rod he found in his attic. The rod has theinscription "Tonka Prince". Can anyone help tell me about the rod? Thanks,Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from mrj@seanet.com Wed Nov 12 10:38:43 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA23205 for Subject: Re: Tonka Prince A couple of years ago at a garage sale I saw a rod that had hand writtenin ink) just above the cork, "Tonka Queen". At the time I thought it wasprobably home made. Maybe it was made by the same company that madeyourTonka Prince? Is the name a label or written on in Black ink like the one Isaw. BTW the rod was about 7.5 ft. long and had a fairly nice action as Irecall. The guy wanted I think $50.00 for it or something like that. Ididn't get it.-----Original Message----- Subject: Tonka Prince A friend showed me an old rod he found in his attic. The rod has theinscription "Tonka Prince". Can anyone help tell me about the rod? Thanks,Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.mail.saic.com Wed Nov 12 10:57:101997 1997 16:57:01 UT 08:57:04 -0800 Subject: Re: Tonka Prince Phil: This rod was made by the Horricks-Ibbotson Co. of Utica NY. It should be a7'0" 2 piece rod for a 5/6 line, and I think it was a one tip rod. Theygenerally had nice cane work, sometimes flamed, but the ferrules, cork,andreel seat tend to be on the cheap side. If the butt and tip are full lengthand is in otherwise good-excellent condition (exp. varnish and wraps), youwould probably see it listed for $175-200 by a dealer. --Rich------------------------------ A friend showed me an old rod he found in his attic. The rod has theinscription "Tonka Prince". Can anyone help tell me about the rod? Thanks,Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 08:25:22-0800 Nov 1997 16:25:16 UT #21134)with ESMTP id forRICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.mail.saic.com; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 08:25:21 - +0000 (208.14.167.13) Subject: Tonka Prince from eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com Wed Nov 12 11:01:18 1997 gateus.meissner-wurst.com via smap (3.2) with SMTP id AAA249; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 11:04:58 -0600 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 0000FBC7; Wed, 12 Nov 9711:34:51 -0600 Philip Lipton Subject: Re: Tonka Prince --IMA.Boundary.190653978 Per Michael Sinclair's book (and if I'm reading the tables correctly), the Tonka Prince was made in the 50's by Horrocks-Ibbotson. It originally sold for $11.00... Sinclair's table lists the orginal wraps as Blue #17 w/o tipping. Email me direct and I'll try to give you more specifics. Hope this helps,Eck ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Tonka PrinceAuthor: Philip Lipton at SMTP_Gateway A friend showed me an old rod he found in his attic. The rod has the inscription "Tonka Prince". Can anyone help tell me about the rod? Thanks,Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ --IMA.Boundary.190653978 headers" ccgate.us.meissner-wurst.com with SMTP(IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 0000FBB7; Wed, 12 Nov 9710:57:06-0600 with ESMTP id AAA236 for ;Wed, 12 Nov 1997 10:27:08 -0600 11:17:47 wurst.com viasmap (3.2) (208.14.167.13) Subject: Tonka Prince --IMA.Boundary.190653978-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Nov 12 11:34:44 1997 Subject: Tonka Prince RO>A friend showed me an old rod he found in his attic. The rod has theRO>inscription "Tonka Prince". Can anyone help tell me about the rod? RO>Thanks,RO>PhilRO>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ RO>Philip LiptonRO>PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353RO>208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Phil, This is a Horrocks-Ibbotson Company 2 piece rod of mid-to-low quality.Should have nickel-plated brass ferrules. Might have blue wraps with notipping? It hould be a nice fishing rod - value of about $100 - $150 in excellentcondition and for a single tip version (almost all of them). Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Wed Nov 12 11:37:27 1997 Subject: Re: advice required In a message dated 97-11-12 01:56:24 EST, you write: Dave, Order an Angler's Workshop catalog (WA state company) they have NSferrules,english snake guides and silk thread. Phone # (360) 225-9445. Never use waxed thread (fly-tying?) - use size "A" or "OO" silk or nylon (ifyou can't get silk) and never use nylon NCP thread for cane rods. It willlook awful. I'd never use varithane myself - good old spar varish iseasy to find and isthe more proper finish for classic cane rods. Also use clear lacquer to sealthe silk wraps - dilute with lacquer thinner for the 1st coat. Don Don Burns from CALucker@aol.com Wed Nov 12 12:29:53 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule fit I apologize. That was surely my mistake in interpretation. It makes sensenow.Sorry.Chris from penr0295@uidaho.edu Wed Nov 12 14:43:21 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id MAA15139 for ; doing -bs Subject: NS Backening Agent Could someone refresh my memory as to what readily available agentsthereare to blacken nickel silver? It seems that I recently read somethingabout a gunsmithing product that works well for blackening ferrules, butcan't remember the product name. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Nov 12 18:49:26 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA014512166; Wed, 12 Nov 1997 16:49:26 -0800 Subject: Blackening Agent I looked for a blackening agent at the local gunshops and only found a product that is sprayed on to blacken sight parts etc. The instructions did not sound like an oxidizer. I have used Ospho blue creme produced by Brownells with O.K. results, but more gunblue than black in color. Recently I bought a bottle of Pewter Black from the Home Depot store. It oxidizes Nickle Silver to a dark grey/ black color after about four easy applications which consisted of dipping the ferrule into the water like solution for 15 seconds, rinsing with water and drying. You can use 0000 steel wool in between applications to even out the color. A 16 oz. bottle was only $11.00 and should last a long time. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Nov 12 20:11:33 1997 Subject: Re: Book Search In a message dated 97-11-12 12:27:16 EST, you write: Hello Kurt: I had assumed as much, and thanks for another possible source.Richard from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Nov 12 20:30:27 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine It started with Jerry Foster - who sent me this long address and askedif I had seen it - Why is it that Jerry is the first one to discover allthese interesting places???? After reading the page I send them an e-mailandthen followed that with a hour long conversation. Mark the editor soundslikea down to earth fellow with a dream - As I recall I have had a few ofthosein the past as well - and I would think that most members of this listwouldfall into that honesty. Well Mark and some of his circle are going to try tomake their dream come true. Perhaps what encouraged me the most wasthat hehad already had the reality check with himself - That's the one where yourealize that this is more for the love of it than for the money. Like mygoodfriend Sam says - 'If it were money we were after we'd both be sellingrealestate". Mark is open to suggestions and sage advice - he welcomes commentsandI'm sure that the magazine may be in a state of flux for a bit as it adjuststo the readership. He also sounded very supportive of the list and thefunction that it services and wants to create a cordial relationship. As Irecall the list was at this bridge before. Meanwhile on an entirely unrelated note- there has been somedeceitfulplanning going on - the Grayrock Commission Concerning Unfair SportingFliesEvents has been working (but too hard) to add challenge to this years 'FliesFour'. According to inside sources graft and bribery will not be toleratedthis year. But I will remind everyone that we are dealing with troutbumshere. Anyway - a few of the new stations added this year -"Tip a canoe andTyler too." - "AuSable Winds" - "Box Canyon"Grayrock 98 June 26 - 27 (offically) - (unofficially - note from spouserequired) June 20 - 27 from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Nov 12 20:50:30 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine Tony, Darryl or I will need to drive over and check this out - publisher isquite near Bob Marriott's. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com from plipton@sunvalley.net Wed Nov 12 21:45:17 1997 (208.14.167.37) Subject: Taper 7' 2pc 2/3 wt. Do any of you fellows have a taper for a seven foot rod, two piece, 2/3weight? Thanks to all for your help on the Tonka Price! Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from flyfisher@rhco.com Thu Nov 13 07:20:03 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id IAA29490 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Taper 7' 2pc 2/3 wt. Try Chris Bogart's Yellow Rose, it's an excellent rod. Probably thebest taper I've built yet. You'll find it in the taper archive. Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA -----Original Message-----From: Philip Lipton [SMTP:plipton@sunvalley.net]Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 1997 10:45 PM Subject: Taper 7' 2pc 2/3 wt. Do any of you fellows have a taper for a seven foot rod, two piece,2/3weight? Thanks to all for your help on the Tonka Price! Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622- 8585 Fax 208-726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Nov 13 08:47:57 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent Thomas Penrose wrote: Could someone refresh my memory as to what readily available agentsthere are to blacken nickel silver? ..... Thomas,I've used Birchwood Casey's Brass Black on NS parts for blackpowderrifles with good results. I haven't tried it yet on rod components, butprobably will do so shortly. You can sometimes find it at good gunshops, especially those who deal with blackpowder. You can also get it from Small Parts, Inc.; from Dixie Gun Works; and directly fromBirchwood Casey.You do need to be sure that the piece to be blackened is well-polishedand completely de-greased to get the best results.Hope this helps... Harry Boyd from flyfisher@rhco.com Thu Nov 13 09:11:36 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id KAA02883 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: NS Backening Agent I've had problems with the blackening flaking off when using Birchwood'sbut I haven't used any other agent. Is this because I've put too muchon too quick? Brian Thoman -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd, Jr. [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, November 13, 1997 9:49 AM Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent Thomas Penrose wrote: Could someone refresh my memory as to what readily available agentsthere are to blacken nickel silver? ..... Thomas,I've used Birchwood Casey's Brass Black on NS parts forblackpowderrifles with good results. I haven't tried it yet on rod components,butprobably will do so shortly. You can sometimes find it at good gunshops, especially those who deal with blackpowder. You can also getit from Small Parts, Inc.; from Dixie Gun Works; and directly fromBirchwood Casey.You do need to be sure that the piece to be blackened iswell-polishedand completely de-greased to get the best results.Hope this helps... Harry Boyd from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Nov 13 09:15:44 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent My guess would be that the NS was not competely degreased. Try usingacetone or another strong solvent, and then wearing vinyl gloves. Thoman, Brian wrote:I've had problems with the blackening flaking off when using Birchwood'sbut I haven't used any other agent. Is this because I've put too muchon too quick? Brian Thoman -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd, Jr. [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, November 13, 1997 9:49 AM Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent Thomas Penrose wrote: Could someone refresh my memory as to what readily available agentsthere are to blacken nickel silver? ..... Thomas,I've used Birchwood Casey's Brass Black on NS parts forblackpowderrifles with good results. I haven't tried it yet on rod components,butprobably will do so shortly. You can sometimes find it at good gunshops, especially those who deal with blackpowder. You can also getit from Small Parts, Inc.; from Dixie Gun Works; and directly fromBirchwood Casey.You do need to be sure that the piece to be blackened iswell-polishedand completely de-greased to get the best results.Hope this helps... Harry Boyd from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Nov 13 09:24:18 1997 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent In a message dated 97-11-12 20:13:59 EST, you write: Thomas: Birchwood Casey's Brass Black works quite well.Regards,Richard Tyree from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Nov 13 09:31:12 1997 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent I continue to have good success with the Kodak Rapid Fixer solutions from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Nov 13 09:44:24 1997 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent In a message dated 97-11-13 09:53:41 EST, you write: Thomas and Harry: If I may add somthing to the above. I have found itnecessary to completely dip the n/s item in the blackening solution, andadditionally, I keep it moving in a stirring motion. Tried applying it withcotten swabs, but it just didn't work out. I use a tapered cork plug for thefemale opening as it is necessary to prevent oxidation to the inside. Themale slide is easily protected by clear tape. Regards,Richard Tyree from mruhe@iea.com Thu Nov 13 09:59:44 1997 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: I continue to have good success with the Kodak Rapid Fixersolutions Also you may want to ask around the gun shops for"formula 44/40"or contact David LeClair at the fly & rod room for the"paynes original"Also dont forget the blued item should be laquered after . Good LuckM Ruhe from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Thu Nov 13 10:03:34 1997 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu,13 Nov 1997 10:05:48 CDT Subject: Hardening & Blackening? A friend recommended a hardening and blackening process involving heating the part with a propane torch and then dipping it into a powder until it cooled. He thought this would work with steel or N/S. Unfortunately the name of the process escaped his memory. Could this be "Casenit," a "surface hardening compound" sold by MSC? Catalog copy: "To surface harden without special equipment. Non-poisonous, non-explosive, non-flammable, up to .020" case depths in 50 minutes. A compound for rapid surface hardening. May be used with equally good results on all classes of steel as well as cast, wrought or malleable iron."#1 for fine work and rapid hardening#2 for general surface hardening$9.47 + postage for a one pound can Has anyone used Casenit? Could it be the process my friend partially remembered?Is Casenit suitable for steel rod parts?Is Casenit suitable for N/S rod parts?Surely a process which seems so simple, safe and inexpensive can't be used for rodmaking. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Nov 13 11:29:34 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine In a message dated 97-11-13 04:40:15 EST, you write: Darryl or I will need to drive over and check this out - publisher isquite near Bob Marriott's. In fact, I live only 5 miles from Bob Marriott's. What is it wewant to know about this magazine? I can give them a call. Personally, I think I'm just going to try it out for a year. Seewhat it's like, and if I don't like it, I won't renew. On the otherhand, maybe I can be one of the contributing authors..... Darryl Hayashida Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Nov 13 14:22:33 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine RO>In a message dated 97-11-13 04:40:15 EST, you write: RO>> Darryl or I will need to drive over and check this out - publisher isRO>> quite near Bob Marriott's.RO>> RO>In fact, I live only 5 miles from Bob Marriott's. What is it weRO>want to know about this magazine? I can give them a call. RO>Personally, I think I'm just going to try it out for a year. SeeRO>what it's like, and if I don't like it, I won't renew. On the otherRO>hand, maybe I can be one of the contributing authors..... RO>Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Sounds like someone else called and spoke to them. I was thinking morein the order of zipping around to the publishers address down in Orange.I'm up north near Magic Mountain and won't get down until the FF Fair atMarriott's. If you go - take a rod and I'll bet we'll see it in an early issue. Don from jczimny@dol.net Thu Nov 13 15:13:11 1997 Subject: Re: Hardening & Blackening? GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU wrote: A friend recommended a hardening and blackening process involvingheating the part with a propane torch and then dipping it into a powderuntil it cooled. He thought this would work with steel or N/S.Unfortunately the name of the process escaped his memory. Could this be "Casenit," a "surface hardening compound" sold byMSC? Catalog copy: "To surface harden without special equipment. Non-poisonous, non-explosive, non-flammable, up to .020" case depths in 50minutes. A compound for rapid surface hardening. May be used withequally good results on all classes of steel as well as cast, wrought ormalleable iron."#1 for fine work and rapid hardening#2 for general surface hardening$9.47 + postage for a one pound can Has anyone used Casenit?Could it be the process my friend partially remembered?Is Casenit suitable for steel rod parts?Is Casenit suitable for N/S rod parts?Surely a process which seems so simple, safe and inexpensive can't beused for rodmaking.I've used the product. But, its purpose is to harden the outside ofsteel parts; not, to turn cupro-nickel alloy black. John Zimny from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Nov 13 17:01:03 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: New magazine SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-11-13 04:40:15 EST, you write: Darryl or I will need to drive over and check this out - publisher isquite near Bob Marriott's. In fact, I live only 5 miles from Bob Marriott's. What is it wewant to know about this magazine? I can give them a call. Personally, I think I'm just going to try it out for a year. Seewhat it's like, and if I don't like it, I won't renew. On the otherhand, maybe I can be one of the contributing authors..... Darryl Hayashida Darryl Hayashida Darryl, your services as an editor would certainly be a valuableaddition in the minds of many of us for whom you have made the complexcomprehendable! - - Harry Boyd from rmoon@dns.ida.net Thu Nov 13 17:52:56 1997 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent Thoman, Brian wrote: I've had problems with the blackening flaking off when usingBirchwood'sbut I haven't used any other agent. Is this because I've put too much on too quick? Brian Thoman -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd, Jr. [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, November 13, 1997 9:49 AM Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent Thomas Penrose wrote: Could someone refresh my memory as to what readily available agentsthere are to blacken nickel silver? ..... Thomas,I've used Birchwood Casey's Brass Black on NS parts forblackpowderrifles with good results. I haven't tried it yet on rod components, butprobably will do so shortly. You can sometimes find it at good gunshops, especially those who deal with blackpowder. You can also get it from Small Parts, Inc.; from Dixie Gun Works; and directly fromBirchwood Casey.You do need to be sure that the piece to be blackened iswell-polishedand completely de-greased to get the best results.Hope this helps... Harry Boyd I have found that dipping does cause a surface flaking that is not atall desireable. I have found however that rubbing it on with a cottonball produces a readily controlable finish that seems quite adequate.Again as has been said the piece must be well polished and completelydegreased. Ralph Moon from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 13 20:34:55 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA6598 +0000 Subject: Re: New magazine Matt Leiderman wrote: At 09:17 AM 11/12/97 +0800, you wrote:I just received an email from the editor of a magazine here in Australiacalled Flylife with the WWW address of a mag called "The BambooFlyrod"The address is as follows www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres.2888Anybody know anything about this mag? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ well, i never heard of it before you put up the address, but it sounds likeit'll be pretty good.....gonna subscribe to it, see what i get....BTW theaddress you posted was wrong.....the right one is: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ thanks for putting up the link!! ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////____MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net____/// \\\\_\\\\__http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/________ICQ#3782893__\\\____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o----------- -----------------------------------`''''''/||\/||||\ As of 8:30CST Thursday evening, this one didn't work either. Anythoughts? Regards, Ed Estlow from coopers@cyberg8t.com Thu Nov 13 20:36:40 1997 key.cyberg8t.com (8.8.5/8.6.12) with ESMTP id SAA05489; Thu, 13 Nov Subject: Re: Hardening & Blackening? J. C. Zimny wrote: I've used the product. (snip)John Zimny Dear Jim: Have you tried this product on blade edges? ThanksBill from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Thu Nov 13 20:41:43 1997 0000 Subject: Re: New magazine At 08:33 PM 11/13/97 -0800, you wrote:Matt Leiderman wrote: http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ As of 8:30CST Thursday evening, this one didn't work either. Anythoughts? Regards, Ed Estlow i tried getting in again today, and the first time it didn't work, but thenafter another attempt, it loaded, but REALLY slowly..... ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////____MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net____/// \\\\_\\\\__http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/________ICQ#3782893__\\\ ____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o-------------------------------- --------------`''''''/||\/||||\ from lblan@provide.net Thu Nov 13 20:52:04 1997 Subject: Re: Hardening & Blackening? Yes, Kasenit is the stuff. Brownell's sells a similar compound under thename Hard-N-Tuff. I have used it to make firing pins... it works! It isn't really a blackening process. There is a black residue after heattreating that cleans off to reveal the original surface finish. Brownellsclaims a hardness of Rc 60. It is meant for carbon steel. Brownells claimslow and high carbon for Hard-N-Tuff, while Kasenit claims plain or lowcarbon steel ( from the Kasenit description in the Brownells catalog) -----Original Message----- Subject: Hardening & Blackening? A friend recommended a hardening and blackening process involvingheating the part with a propane torch and then dipping it into a powderuntil it cooled. He thought this would work with steel or N/S.Unfortunately the name of the process escaped his memory. Could this be "Casenit," a "surface hardening compound" sold byMSC? Catalog copy: "To surface harden without special equipment. Non-poisonous, non-explosive, non-flammable, up to .020" case depths in 50minutes. A compound for rapid surface hardening. May be used withequally good results on all classes of steel as well as cast, wrought ormalleable iron."#1 for fine work and rapid hardening#2 for general surface hardening$9.47 + postage for a one pound can Has anyone used Casenit?Could it be the process my friend partially remembered?Is Casenit suitable for steel rod parts?Is Casenit suitable for N/S rod parts?Surely a process which seems so simple, safe and inexpensive can't beused for rodmaking. from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Thu Nov 13 22:20:05 1997 Subject: Finishing & Sanding Currently I can cut each strip within a 0.001 of each other(whenmeasured every inch), and the taper wanted. After unwrapping them (whenthey are glued), I begin to take off the enamel. I do this with 220grpaper. I have noticed that after this process, I end up with a slightdifferent taper (some areas have a reverse taper than others),especially in the tip section. I so far have attributed this to anuneven work surface (even thought I sand it flat every time from anyglue build-up, etc..). Is there something that I am overlooking, or hasanyone had and corrected this problem? Paul from stpete@netten.net Thu Nov 13 22:23:38 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA07930 for; Thu, 13 Nov 1997 22:23:04 -0600 Subject: Looking for Phillipson tip ferrule In search of: NS male tip ferrule. Slide section of male needs tobe 0.156". I'm in need of a male ferrule for an extra tip section. Rod is aPhillipson Pacemaker, 8'0", 3 pc, 5/6 wt. Ferrules on rod appearoriginal. NS, witness mark, etc. This ferrule is needed to match thefemale on the mid/tip joint. Male slide on the existing tip calipers to0.156", so that's what I'm looking for. If you have a ferrule matching the requirements which you are willing tosell/trade, or know where I might obtain one, please e-mail me atstpete@netten.net Thanks, Rick from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 13 22:29:21 1997 Fri, 14 Nov 1997 12:29:11 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Hardening & Blackening? I've been experimenting with stuff called by jewlers suppliers "Liver of Sulphur". It comes in a form that looks like rock chips and has an odour that makes you stop wondering how they came up with the name.You mix it with very warm water and keep it warmed to a point just below boiling. I've found it oxidises NS in a range of colours from not shiney to a very nice looking bronze. Prob if left long enough you could get the NS almost black.If you do try it make sure you clean the NS properly before imersing it and keep the solution off the boil, otherwise the finish you get will flake off. The advantage of Liver of Sulphur is that it's reasonably non toxic and because it takes a few hrs to do the trick you can vary the degree of oxidisation. Don't try this in the kitchen.On the other hand for something quicker try Dave Leclair for his blackening agent. Tony On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Bill C. wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: I've used the product. (snip)John Zimny Dear Jim: Have you tried this product on blade edges? ThanksBill /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.mail.saic.com Fri Nov 14 07:12:411997 1997 13:12:20 UT 05:12:34 -0800 Subject: New magazine Subject: Time: 8:08 AMOFFICE MEMO New magazine Date: 11/14/97 What is the correct address for the new magazine? http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/acres/2888 does NOT exist. --Rich from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 14 08:51:12 1997 Fri, 14 Nov 1997 22:51:05 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: New magazine On 14 Nov 1997, Rich Margiotta wrote: Subject: Time: 8:08 AMOFFICE MEMO New magazine Date: 11/14/97 What is the correct address for the new magazine? http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/acres/2888 does NOT exist. --Rich Upper case A in Acres Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 14 10:10:30 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine In a message dated 97-11-14 10:49:40 EST, you write: What is the correct address for the new magazine? http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/acres/2888 does NOT exist. I got them at:http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/(cut and pasted directly out of my browser as I lookedat the page).Perhaps because I am only a few miles away the linkhas been rock steady and quite fast for me. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 14 10:13:41 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine In a message dated 97-11-14 07:30:34 EST, you write: Darryl, your services as an editor would certainly be a valuableaddition in the minds of many of us for whom you have made thecomplexcomprehendable! -- Harry Boyd Well, I've emailed them and offered to write a few articles, but Ihaven't heard back from them. They probably have enough peoplevolunteering to write for them. Darryl Hayashida from jbrander@hotmail.com Fri Nov 14 11:45:11 1997 Fri, 14 Nov 1997 09:44:34 PST Subject: Garrison 201 7-foot 4-weight I am planning to buy my first splitcane rod and find the process of deciding a bit difficult. Anyway, I've found a rod based on the Garrison 201 7-foot 4- weight, and I wonder if anyone on the list is willing to share his opinions about the action of this Garrison design, and what kind of caster it would best be suited for. A humble beginner in a rainy Stockholm, Sweden, where huge sea-run browns can be caught in the city centre... Joakim Brander ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 14 12:02:19 1997 Subject: Re: Finishing & Sanding In a message dated 97-11-14 05:22:36 EST, you write: I have noticed that after this process, I end up with a slightdifferent taper (some areas have a reverse taper than others),especially in the tip section. I so far have attributed this to anuneven work surface (even thought I sand it flat every time from anyglue build-up, etc..). Is there something that I am overlooking, or hasanyone had and corrected this problem? A little while ago I experimented with putting the point of higheststress as close to the tip as I could, to see if the rod would casta tighter loop (this works by the way). In making the rod, I didn'tput in the "Cattanach Hinge" and the rod was a terrible roll caster.After unsuccessfully trying to sell the rod - I told all who were interested about the problem - I decided to experiment furtherand sand in a hinge at the correct point. It was amazing howeasy it was to take off .005 of the diameter with 220 grit sandpaper. My guess would be that you are being a little over zealous withthe sanding step. Try using a finer grit sandpaper and caliperthe diameter as you sand. This is also a good way to get thesame three diameter measurements flat to flat at the samepoint if that's what you want to do. Darryl Hayashida from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 14 14:43:50 1997 Subject: Re: Hardening & Blackening? Tony Young wrote: I've been experimenting with stuff called by jewlers suppliers "Liver ofSulphur". It comes in a form that looks like rock chips and has an odourthat makes you stop wondering how they came up with the name.You mix it with very warm water and keep it warmed to a point justbelowboiling. I've found it oxidises NS in a range of colours from not shineyto a very nice looking bronze. Prob if left long enough you could get theNS almost black.If you do try it make sure you clean the NS properly before imersing itand keep the solution off the boil, otherwise the finish you get willflake off. The advantage of Liver of Sulphur is that it's reasonably nontoxic and because it takes a few hrs to do the trick you can vary thedegree of oxidisation. Don't try this in the kitchen.On the other hand for something quicker try Dave Leclair for hisblackening agent. Tony On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Bill C. wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: I've used the product. (snip)John Zimny Dear Jim: Have you tried this product on blade edges? ThanksBill /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/Yep, I have used liver of sulfur. But, the color isn't the traditionalone.John from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 14 14:45:09 1997 Subject: Re: Garrison 201 7-foot 4-weight Joakim Brander wrote: I am planning to buy my first splitcane rod and find the process ofdeciding a bit difficult. Anyway, I've found a rod based on the Garrison201 7-foot 4- weight, and I wonder if anyone on the list is willing toshare his opinions about the action of this Garrison design, and whatkind of caster it would best be suited for. A humble beginner in a rainy Stockholm, Sweden, where huge sea-runbrowns can be caught in the city centre... Joakim Brander ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.comYes I love this rod. Very feminine in nature. It almost dances.Wonderful medium action at medium distances. Not for the power caster;but rather for the comtemplative.John from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 14 18:19:45 1997 Sat, 15 Nov 1997 08:19:14 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Hardening & Blackening? On Fri, 14 Nov 1997, J. C. Zimny wrote: Tony Young wrote: I've been experimenting with stuff called by jewlers suppliers "LiverofSulphur". It comes in a form that looks like rock chips and has an odourthat makes you stop wondering how they came up with the name.You mix it with very warm water and keep it warmed to a point justbelowboiling. I've found it oxidises NS in a range of colours from not shineyto a very nice looking bronze. Prob if left long enough you could get theNS almost black.If you do try it make sure you clean the NS properly before imersing itand keep the solution off the boil, otherwise the finish you get willflake off. The advantage of Liver of Sulphur is that it's reasonably nontoxic and because it takes a few hrs to do the trick you can vary thedegree of oxidisation. Don't try this in the kitchen.On the other hand for something quicker try Dave Leclair for hisblackening agent. Tony On Thu, 13 Nov 1997, Bill C. wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: I've used the product. (snip)John Zimny Dear Jim: Have you tried this product on blade edges? ThanksBill /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/Yep, I have used liver of sulfur. But, the color isn't the traditionalone.John Well, I wasn't after tradition, just something to take away the shiney look and I like bronze. It goes well with a blond rod. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Nov 14 18:29:19 1997 Subject: Re: Garrison 201 7-foot 4-weight JB>Joakim Brander wrote: JB>>JB>> A humble beginner in a rainy Stockholm, Sweden, where huge sea- runJB>> browns can be caught in the city centre...JB>>JB>> Joakim Brander Joakim, Are we supposed to offer you help after posting the above? Don Burns PS - Gee, my wife visited Stockholm on business - won't let me tag along.I thought it was because of the women, now I know it was thefishing. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Nov 14 23:35:30 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA23644 +0000 Subject: Re: Hardening & Blackening? Has anyone used any of the hot black oxide processes offered by Du- LiteCorporation (Middletown, CT)? I just got their brochure (color) in themail today and the photos look good & most of the chemicals are $3 perpound (10 pound size is smallest), so it looks attractive pricewise, too(though I doubt I'd go through 10 lb in even a couple of years). So, ifanyone has any experience I'd like to know if they got an even finish,liked the color (looks good in photos), do the chemicals keep well?Thanks,George Bourke from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Nov 15 11:09:49 1997 Subject: Re: Garrison 201 7-foot 4-weight In a message dated 11/15/97 1:36:11 PM, you wrote: I've built several of these, and the closely related 202E. I like them a lot.They have a light, smooth, moderately slow action. The 201 is on the lightend of 4 weight, almost a 3 weight. It is ideal for small flies and delicatefishing. Try to cast one before you buy it to see if you like the taper. from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 15 13:49:37 1997 Subject: Royer Cane Just received my bundle of Royer cane - many thanksto Chester Jung, who is on this list, but only lurks.He went on a fishing trip to Oregon and took a sidetrip to Seattle to pick up a bundle for himself, andalso picked up a bundle for me. I got a bundle of the grade A cane, and it is goodcane, most of the culms are worth the money, butit isn't excellent cane. I would characterize it as"blue collar" cane, good for your run of the millrods, but not cane I would use for a commandperformance. Every one of the Demerest culmsI have are heavier, with thicker power fibers. Don'tget me wrong, I wouldn't reject the Royer cane asunusable, but I also wouldn't use it for anythingover an 8 ft. 6 or 7 weight. I also would not useit to make a blonde rod, unless you are willingto reject most of the strips or you don't mind afew water marks. Oh yes - no mold that I can see after putting ina drying split the whole length on all the culms. Darryl Hayashida from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sat Nov 15 14:37:45 1997 Subject: Tonkin Bamboo Supplier In The U.K If anyone is interested I have found a supplier of Tonkin Bamboo in theU.K. The company is called Clapro Ltd and can be contacted on 01819494963.I have just received a bale of 10, 13' 50 - 60mm diameter poles, for whichI paid £140.41 inc carriage. Mick Woodruff. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Nov 15 16:12:05 1997 Subject: Re: Hardening & Blackening? Casenite will not work for nickel silver. It is for case hardening steel.I've used it for many years in my gunsmithing shop. If you wan't to turnn/sblack,call me to get some n/s oxidizer. This is the only way to go. It is anold Jim Payne formula.Made for nickel silver. Dave Le CalirThe Fly and Rod Room315-689-7896 evenings from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Nov 15 16:19:14 1997 Subject: Re: Hardening & Blackening? George, the hot caustic blueing is only for steel. I've used it to bluefirearms forthe past 29 years. It will not work on nickelsilver,stainless,aluminum,etc.Take my word for it. Plus this stuff is very caustic and you run it at atemp. of around 300 degrees F. If you splatter any on yourself,you willwishyou hadn't. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Nov 15 16:24:06 1997 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent Thomas, There are alot of things on the market that will work fordarkeningnickelsilver. Most if them do not work very well. I've tried them all,believe me.The bestthing to use is the nickel silver oxidizer that I bottle and sell for $25.00per bottle.It is an old formula that Jim Payne used. You can't believe this stuff untillyou see the results.A 2oz. bottle will do hundreds of rods. Call me if youare interested. Dave LeclairThe Fly and Rod Room315-689-7896 evenings from Bopep@aol.com Sat Nov 15 16:26:38 1997 Subject: Re: Garrison 201 7-foot 4-weight I've had the pleasure of casting an original 201E and I think it's awonderful taper! Up to that point it was one of the nicest casters I'vetossed a line with...still is one of my faves. It's very smooth, almost a bitmuch so. Maybe it's just me. I tend to prefer the few payne tapers I'vecomeacross. Can't help with any advice on the straight 201.Rob Hoffhines from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 15 17:26:37 1997 (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with ESMTP 0600 Subject: Re: Tonka Prince A couple of years ago at a garage sale I saw a rod that had hand writtenin ink) just above the cork, "Tonka Queen". At the time I thought it wasprobably home made. Maybe it was made by the same company that madeyourTonka Prince? Is the name a label or written on in Black ink like the one Isaw. BTW the rod was about 7.5 ft. long and had a fairly nice action as Irecall. The guy wanted I think $50.00 for it or something like that. Ididn't get it. My wife got a "Tonka Queen" for Christmas, two years ago was it? (CRS.) 7ft. 9in. 2 pc. 5/6wt. Made by Horrocks-ibbotson. Nice action. A bit longatalmost 8 ft. I 've kept my eye out for a "Prince." I think it would make agood fishing tool. They go for $150 up. I think My wife paid $225 for theoneshe got me. If You have the time to wait you can find them much cheeper. Or Ifyou're lucky, you can find them at a garage sale.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 15 17:26:38 1997 (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with ESMTP 0600 Subject: Re: Reelseat question? I have seen several rods which had the reel seat "hanging" off the butt. Although they were at the lower end of the quality scale, they did havetwofeatures which might be of some help. First, the reel seats were fullmetal, and second there was a plug of wood (Balsa?) to fill the space. Iwould fill the overhang with a piece of dowel just to keep the woodspacer from cracking the first time the rod is dropped. It would also helpprevent water damage to the spacer. This is one place where the copper tubing form the hobby shop can come inhandy.I've used two pieced, one inside the other, to extend a short butt section. Ifilled the inside with a dowel, Glued and pinned the tubing to the bambooandhave no fear of using this rod for any fish the tip section will handle. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from WDHCJL@aol.com Sat Nov 15 21:14:07 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine A straight "copy/paste address is:http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/Hope this helps.doug hall from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Nov 16 01:18:37 1997 Subject: quadrate rods Hi Gang! Can anybody tell me if there is a source for quadrate (4-sided) rod tapers&stats that I haven't found? I'm sure it's just a question of my lack offamiliarity with the medium, but so far no square sticks. Barring actual numbers, maybe somebody could just give me a rough ideaofwhere to start, i.e. compared to what a comparable hex. rod wouldmeasure.In a vaccuum here, fellas, need some input. ThanksD. Riggs from jbrander@hotmail.com Sun Nov 16 06:48:02 1997 Sun, 16 Nov 1997 04:46:26 PST Subject: Inner City Bamboo To all who replied re Garrison 201: Thanks for the advice. If I buy the rod I promise not to disturb big fish cruising the city "streams", but rather catch some small browns up north, in Swedish Lapland. Check out the february 97 isssue of the British angling monthly "Trout & Salmon", and you'll get the picture. Joakim Brander,Stockholm, Sweden ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Nov 16 15:06:46 1997 Subject: Test - Don't read You peeked!! Test of the list-serv, it's been very quiet. DGB from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Nov 16 16:28:41 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: TEST Since I've had no messages since Friday, this is just a test, pleasedisregard. from sats@gte.net Sun Nov 16 21:01:59 1997 (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with ESMTP 0600 Subject: Re: Finishing & Sanding In a message dated 97-11-14 05:22:36 EST, you write: I have noticed that after this process, I end up with a slightdifferent taper (some areas have a reverse taper than others),especially in the tip section. I so far have attributed this to anuneven work surface (even thought I sand it flat every time from anyglue build-up, etc..). Is there something that I am overlooking, or hasanyone had and corrected this problem? My guess would be that you are being a little over zealous withthe sanding step. Try using a finer grit sandpaper and caliperthe diameter as you sand. This is also a good way to get thesame three diameter measurements flat to flat at the samepoint if that's what you want to do. Easy to do. I gave up on scraping, because I would OVER Shoot What I was trying to do. As you say Daryl, it's not hard to remove .005 with sand paper. Especiallyclose to the tip. I'd suggest no more then 5 strokes a side beforemeasuring.Even less when you get close to your final numbers. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Nov 17 05:04:10 1997 Mon, 17 Nov 1997 19:04:01 +0800 (WST) Subject: seems quiet test /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Nov 17 09:35:35 1997 Subject: Re: Tonka Prince If you're lucky? How you be any luckier than wife buys for you nice fishpole? :-o D Riggs from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Nov 17 11:19:36 1997 Subject: Re: quadrate rods I've got taper for a 7"-0" single piece rod (no ferrule) worked out withHistand's program. Most who have tried the rod like the action. Let meknow ifyou'd like a copy of the taper and I'll forward "off list". Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Hi Gang! Can anybody tell me if there is a source for quadrate (4-sided) rodtapers &stats that I haven't found? I'm sure it's just a question of my lack offamiliarity with the medium, but so far no square sticks. Barring actual numbers, maybe somebody could just give me a rough ideaofwhere to start, i.e. compared to what a comparable hex. rod wouldmeasure.In a vaccuum here, fellas, need some input. ThanksD. Riggs from mrj@seanet.com Mon Nov 17 11:36:54 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA21709 for Subject: Re: Royer Cane I feel the same way Daryl. I'm glad I bought this cane but it tells me thatthe last stuff I got from Demerest (about 2 years ago) was top qualitystuff. I did get a couple of pieces of the Royer cane that almost approachthe quality of the Demerest order. After a month in my basement though, Ithink that some of the water spots are disappearing. They may have onlybeenon the surface. I have about 10 of the Demerast stuff and about 15 of theRoyer stuff so it will be a while before I use any of the Royer cane.-----Original Message----- Subject: Royer Cane Just received my bundle of Royer cane - many thanksto Chester Jung, who is on this list, but only lurks.He went on a fishing trip to Oregon and took a sidetrip to Seattle to pick up a bundle for himself, andalso picked up a bundle for me. I got a bundle of the grade A cane, and it is goodcane, most of the culms are worth the money, butit isn't excellent cane. I would characterize it as"blue collar" cane, good for your run of the millrods, but not cane I would use for a commandperformance. Every one of the Demerest culmsI have are heavier, with thicker power fibers. Don'tget me wrong, I wouldn't reject the Royer cane asunusable, but I also wouldn't use it for anythingover an 8 ft. 6 or 7 weight. I also would not useit to make a blonde rod, unless you are willingto reject most of the strips or you don't mind afew water marks. Oh yes - no mold that I can see after putting ina drying split the whole length on all the culms. Darryl Hayashida from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Nov 17 11:39:43 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Mon,17Nov 1997 11:40:09 -0500 Subject: MD Rod Show I would like to know if any bamboo rod makers out there in wonderland would like to share a booth at the University of MD Fly-Fishing expo. Anticipated attendance is 3000 people. All of which are paying $12 to get in the door. The dates are Jan 10 and 1. Call me if you are interested. I will be selling my graphite rods there. (couldn't give away one of my bamboo rods. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 (607) 277-9781 from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Nov 17 12:10:58 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Thomas, There are alot of things on the market that will work fordarkeningnickelsilver. Most if them do not work very well. I've tried them all,believe me.The bestthing to use is the nickel silver oxidizer that I bottle and sell for $25.00per bottle.It is an old formula that Jim Payne used. You can't believe this stuffuntillyou see the results.A 2oz. bottle will do hundreds of rods. Call me if youare interested. Dave LeclairThe Fly and Rod Room315-689-7896 evenings Dave, will your Jim Payne Formula blacken strippers and guides aswell,or just Nickel Silver? --Harry Boyd from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Nov 17 13:11:33 1997 Subject: Re: MD Rod Show JonMy wife and I will have a booth at the Md. show and will be selling bothgraphite and cane rods as well as doing a destination theatre on NEYellowstonePark where we have a lodge 1 mile east of the NE entrance of the Park.Hope to see you there,Hank. from kreutzer@frii.com Mon Nov 17 13:28:46 1997 Subject: Rod Shows At 11:40 AM 11/17/97 +0000, you wrote:I would like to know if any bamboo rod makers out there in wonderland would like to share a booth at the University of MD Fly-Fishing expo. Anticipated attendance is 3000 people. All of which are paying $12 to get in the door. The dates are Jan 10 and 1. Call me if you are interested. I will be selling my graphite rods there. (couldn't give away one of my bamboo rods. This raises the question, are there ever any fishing shows (other than theannual Tackle Dealer's show in September) held in Denver where canewouldbe displayed and sold ? I rarely go to other than the IFTD, but if caneis shown elsewhere, I would start going . If there are any coming up in1998 in Denver, anyone know which month ? from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Mon Nov 17 14:27:15 1997 V2R3)with BSMTP id 4438; Mon, 17 Nov 97 15:26:51 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 2850; Mon, 17 Nov1997 15:26:51 -0500Subject: Wiring an oven I've just completed a WC type oven with the helpful suggestions of KurtLoupand many others on the list. I have one question on the wiring. Shall Ifasten the ground wire to the outside metal box only, or should I fasten ittothe outside box and then fasten a wire to the inside box as well? (Therestof the wiring goes as follows; small prong of male wall plug wired tothermostat, thermostat wired to mica strip, mica strip wired to fat prongofmale wall plug. Now where does that green wire go?? Thanks in advance,Bob. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Nov 17 15:07:20 1997 Subject: Re: Wiring an oven At 15:21 17/11/97 EST,Bob wrote:I've just completed a WC type oven with the helpful suggestions of KurtLoupand many others on the list. I have one question on the wiring. Shall Ifasten the ground wire to the outside metal box only, or should I fastenit tothe outside box and then fasten a wire to the inside box as well? (Therestof the wiring goes as follows; small prong of male wall plug wired tothermostat, thermostat wired to mica strip, mica strip wired to fatprong ofmale wall plug. Now where does that green wire go?? Thanks in advance,Bob. Bob, You should three colors - black, white green. Black is hot out - white ishot back and the green is ground.Ground the green to the outside of the box and maintain electricalcontinuity by the use of a bare [ with insulation removed] copper 12 guageor better wire between both sides of the box. That way if the thing shortsout either in the thermostat or mica strip, you're grounded and the breakerwill "pop". Have fun, Don from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Nov 17 15:34:08 1997 Subject: Re: Rod Shows Sue Kreutzer wrote: At 11:40 AM 11/17/97 +0000, you wrote:I would like to know if any bamboo rod makers out there in wonderlandwould like to share a booth at the University of MD Fly-Fishing expo.Anticipated attendance is 3000 people. All of which are paying $12to get in the door. The dates are Jan 10 and 1. Call me if you areinterested. I will be selling my graphite rods there. (couldn'tgive away one of my bamboo rods. This raises the question, are there ever any fishing shows (other thantheannual Tackle Dealer's show in September) held in Denver where canewouldbe displayed and sold ? I rarely go to other than the IFTD, but if caneis shown elsewhere, I would start going . If there are any coming up in1998 in Denver, anyone know which month ? There is an Ed Rice Show, The International Sportsman's Exposition in Ithink FebruaryRalph Moon from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Nov 17 16:25:39 1997 Subject: Re: quadrate rods In a message dated 97-11-17 08:33:35 EST, you write: Hello:Len Histand has a great computer program for converting hex to quad ineitherequal cross section area or equal stiffness. Do not know how it works forquads, but it does work 5-side rods to = stiffness. His documentation islengthy and very informative.He sold the program at one time, so here ishis address: LEN HISTAND40 DAVIS ROADDOYLESTOWN, PA 18901215-348- 5209This info is a couple of years old. Hope this helps.Richard Tyree from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Nov 17 16:54:20 1997 Subject: Re: quadrate rods In a message dated 11/17/97 1:33:35 PM, you wrote: The stress numbers on a quadrate are lower than those of a comprable 6sider.You basically cannot get into trouble doing simple mathematicalconversions,and that is not a bad place to start. Take your favorite 6 strip taper andderive a 4 strip taper with the same cross sectional area. The weight ofthetwo rods will be the same. I think you will find the 4 strip to feel a bitsofter, but paradoxically, be a bit more powerful. Be aware that planing 4strip configurations is a bit more difficult. The narrow angles want towiggle around in the form and the angles can go awry. get the strips asstraight as you can and go slowly. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Nov 17 17:58:59 1997 Subject: Re: Wiring an oven Bob -Starting at the plug little prong (with black wire) goes to thermostat - from the other screw on thermostat to mica strip heater. Starting at plug- big prong to mica strip heater (with white wire). from plug round prong(green wire) - to screw holding 4" square box to top of oven shell. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Nov 17 18:02:16 1997 Subject: New Fly Line The McKenzie Co (800-437-3597) has a new fly line on the marketespeciallymade for bamboo fly rods - they are caramel/amber to compliment thecolor ofbamboo - sizes #4 - #7 DT & WF. from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 17 18:11:44 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine In a message dated 97-11-14 13:01:58 EST, you write: Darryl, your services as an editor would certainly be a valuableaddition in the minds of many of us for whom you have made thecomplexcomprehendable! -- Harry Boyd Well, I've emailed them and offered to write a few articles, but Ihaven't heard back from them. They probably have enough peoplevolunteering to write for them.Darryl Hayashida Just thought I would follow up on this post. Mark Metcalf - the editor,has contacted me, and seems very interested in any kind of input for his magazine. You just might see one of my rods in print some day! Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Nov 17 19:00:28 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine RO>Just thought I would follow up on this post. Mark Metcalf - the editor,RO>has contacted me, and seems very interested in any kind of input forRO>his magazine. You just might see one of my rods in print some day! RO>Darryl Hayashida Has anyone that has filled out the online sub. form received anacknowledgement? Or anything at all back? Don Burns from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Nov 17 19:52:19 1997 Subject: Reel information This past september I spent a week with Terry O' Connor - Terry and hisfamily run J. Austin Forbes - Among their featured products are fly reels -they offer the 1 1/4" operating fly reel. Anyway -Terry has been workingon anew design and had several samples with him - after hours of comparisonswithother reels he is off having a new model test run. But the reel news forourhousehold is that he is having several of the new series oxidized - Purple.So for those looking for a Christmas gift for that hard to please fly galthenumber is 800-827-6199.Now I'm sure that after I get through roasting Ballan with this comejanurary there might even be a purple Ballan available as well. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Nov 17 20:07:57 1997 Tue, 18 Nov 1997 10:07:24 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: New Fly Line On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The McKenzie Co (800-437-3597) has a new fly line on the marketespeciallymade for bamboo fly rods - they are caramel/amber to compliment thecolor ofbamboo - sizes #4 - #7 DT & WF. Prob a silly question and I don't mean this as a tongue in cheek thing, but does the line have any other charistics apart from the colour, is it soft or hard? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from stpete@netten.net Mon Nov 17 20:24:55 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA22857 for; Mon, 17 Nov 1997 20:26:12 -0600 Subject: Re: Tonka Prince Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: A couple of years ago at a garage sale I saw a rod that had hand writtenin ink) just above the cork, "Tonka Queen". At the time I thought it wasprobably home made. Maybe it was made by the same company thatmade yourTonka Prince? Is the name a label or written on in Black ink like the oneIsaw. BTW the rod was about 7.5 ft. long and had a fairly nice action as Irecall. The guy wanted I think $50.00 for it or something like that. Ididn't get it. I've got a Tonka Prince. I heard such derogatory remarks about H-I,that I almost didn't get it. I picked it up for $70. It's not alloriginal, in fact, it has N/S ferrules, although the male is out ofround. I think it casts a 4 wt Wulff TT very well. Not a great rod, but a VERYservicable rod for the money. BTW, I think H-I used WHITE ink on their rods didn't they. Also, theywrote the name with the tip on the left and the butt to the right, justopposite of most rods you see. That could be a telltale sign of arework or a flat out copy of the rod. Someone tell me if I'm wrong. Rick from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Nov 17 20:26:55 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: New magazine flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Just thought I would follow up on this post. Mark Metcalf - theeditor,RO>has contacted me, and seems very interested in any kind of input forRO>his magazine. You just might see one of my rods in print some day! RO>Darryl Hayashida Has anyone that has filled out the online sub. form received anacknowledgement? Or anything at all back? Don Burns Not a word on subscriptions as of Monday, 8:00 PM Central Time. Ifilled out the form on Wednesday, and mentioned that I hope to start aSouthern US Rodmakers gathering in late April/early may, and heard fromShane Chung, Special Projects Manager on Thursday. he wanted all theinside scoop. So we know they are at least reading their mail.Harry Boyd from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Nov 17 22:22:05 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine At 16:46 17/11/97 -0600, you wrote:RO>Just thought I would follow up on this post. Mark Metcalf - theeditor,RO>has contacted me, and seems very interested in any kind of input forRO>his magazine. You just might see one of my rods in print some day! RO>Darryl Hayashida Has anyone that has filled out the online sub. form received anacknowledgement? Or anything at all back? Don Burns Don, Attempted to subscribe to the "mag". and found out that the drop down box old USA. Gave Mark a blast and suggested that about 1/2 of all cane rodsare NOT built in the US and he should modify his form to recognize therest of the world. Sent message and surprise - surprise got a phone callwithin minutes apologizing for the oversight and a promise to fix theform.Tried to resubscribe today and the URL is still not repaired - I guess he'sjust plain busy. Must be a trial getting a new mag. off the ground. Wish him luck - this cane rod thing is a tiny market niche. regards, Don Andersen from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Tue Nov 18 01:26:47 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAB26502 +0000 Subject: Re: New Fly Line I fish silk occasionally and find that intermediates (especially Orvis, dueto the color) have a lot of the characteristics of silk.....fine diameters intermediates with their floating problems, SA XPS linesimho are aboutasclose to the handling of silk lines as you can get. I think silk lines area bit harder on guides than contemporary line finishes. At 02:07 AM 11/18/97 +0000, you wrote:On Mon, 17 Nov 1997 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The McKenzie Co (800-437-3597) has a new fly line on the marketespeciallymade for bamboo fly rods - they are caramel/amber to compliment thecolor ofbamboo - sizes #4 - #7 DT & WF. Prob a silly question and I don't mean this as a tongue in cheek thing, but does the line have any other charistics apart from the colour, is it soft or hard? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue Nov 18 10:36:28 1997 Subject: Taper for Four "Sider" A couple of people have asked for the taper I mentioned several daysago, one suggesting it should be generally available. Please bear withme while I clutter the list to comply with the request.The taper is for a 7'-0" finish length, designed for a 5 wt. line. Notbeing able to come up with a satisfactory way to make a four sidedferrule, I made my rod a single piece with an eight foot wood planingform. Taper for a two piece also follows with the weight of the ferruleestimated. Dimensions are for the individual strips, not the assembledrod section. -5 0.0310 0.0315 0.03810 0.05015 0.05320 0.06625 0.07330 0.08035 0.08640 0.09245 0.09850 0.10455 0.11060 0.17765 0.12370 0.12975 0.13580 0.13585 0.13590 0.135 Tip Butt-5 0.031 0.0860 0.031 0.0925 0.038 0.09910 0.050 0.10615 0.058 0.11320 0.066 0.12025 0.073 0.12730 0.080 0.13435 0.086 0.14040 0.092 0.14045 0.099 0.14050 0.106 0.140 You'll note I like to make my sections over length and cut to finishlength after gluing, simple because I believe I have better controlwhile wrapping. My guide spacing is 2/0 @ 4", 2/0 @ 8-5/8", 1/0 @ 14", 1/0 @ 20-1/4", 1@ 27-3/4", 1 @ 36-3/4", 2 @ 47-1/4" and 2 @ 51-1/2". I did not use astripper guide. from pallen@wcoil.com Tue Nov 18 12:25:23 1997 alpha.wcoil.com (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06567 for Subject: Re: New magazine/on-line order form Has anyone that has filled out the online sub. form received anacknowledgement? Or anything at all back? Don Burns Don, I had the same feeling after I filled out the on-line order form. I haveno idea if they received it--there was no acknowledgement... Patrick from SSunderl@aol.com Tue Nov 18 21:10:33 1997 Subject: Embarking on the Journey As one who is about to embark on his 1000 hour journey and since I havedonelittle woodworking, especially planeing work I have a simple question. Howdo I keep from planeing into my forms (I am about to begin building a setofmaple forms for my first try) when getting close to the surface of theforms? from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Nov 18 21:41:29 1997 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent Harry, this solution works best on nickel silver. I have had some luckblackening stainless steel snakes and strippers. But it doesn't come out asgood as n/s does.The best way to blacken stainless is to nickel plate it first. Then blackenthenickel. Dave LeClair from frogs@uslink.net Tue Nov 18 22:03:58 1997 link3.uslink.net (8.8.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id WAA08393 for Subject: Quad rod tapers I am a newcommer to the list and have been lurking for the past severalweeks. I find the discussions interesting and informative. As to thequestion regarding tapers for a four strip rod; I have built two of them andam delighted with their performance. The first was an 8-1/2 footer for 5wt.line that I cut back to 8'2". It now casts a 6 wt. line. The second rod isan 8-1/2 footer for 8 wt. line that I made for steelhead fishing. It casts a#9 shooting taper like a dream. Both rods are 3 piece and are derived fromtapers for a 7-1/2 foot Thomas rod in George W. Barnes's book on bamboorodmaking. I made these rods about 15 years ago and at the time usedOrvisferrules that I squared-up with dies that I made. The tip top was alsosquared. This precludes having to remove any bamboo in those criticalareaswhere the wood enters the ferrule. The first rod was heat treated to achocolate brown (almost too much) but is very resilient. The tapers for itfollow. Note that I like a .010" jump at the ferrules. Measurements are forthe strip and not the total x-section. Ferrules are 11/64 and 15/64. Tip Mid Butt 0 .0345 .03810 .04615 .05620 .06625 .07530 .07932.5 .081 32.5 .08635 .087540 .09045 .09650 .10155 .107560 .112565 .120 65 .12570 .127575 .13580 .14485 .15988 .17590 .17595 .17598 .175The rod weighs 5.0 oz.John Slivon from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Nov 18 22:27:40 1997 Subject: Fungatology 101 I got a call from a maker who is using some of the recently deliveredbamboo. The element of the fungus was evident on the inner pith - but inplaning a rod from the bamboo the maker noticed grayish streaks in thepowerfibers. Concern - will that have a long term effect on the rod? Looking forcomments ???The conversation ended in the thought that through out the life of tonkinbamboo it coexists with the fungus (or rather it is the host for the fungus)and that perhaps the grayish streaks in the power fibers is the last of thechlorophyll or fungus stain that will diminish with drier conditions and orsunlight. We were both confident that this would be the case. After all therod will be thermal set at 235 degrees for 3 hours - (the heat should killit). And the epoxy has tolulyene(sp) which is a toxic element - (the fumesshould kill it) - the the rod will be sealed in varnish that will rob thefungus of moisture and oxygen - (which should starve it or choke it). Butstill you wonder - does the light really go out when you shut therefrigerator door? 20 years from now will you hear munching from insidetherod - knowing that the fungus is eating the lignum (protein) and that therodis doomed. Wayne from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Nov 19 00:02:54 1997 Subject: Re: Embarking on the Journey In a message dated 97-11-19 00:23:01 EST, you write: As one who is about to embark on his 1000 hour journey and since I havedonelittle woodworking, especially planeing work I have a simple question.Howdo I keep from planeing into my forms (I am about to begin building a setofmaple forms for my first try) when getting close to the surface of theforms? Groove the sole of your plane. Take a look at:http://www.cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.htmlthere is a section in the FAQ explaining howto do it. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Nov 19 00:48:50 1997 Wed, 19 Nov 1997 14:48:31 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Embarking on the Journey On Tue, 18 Nov 1997 SSunderl@aol.com wrote: As one who is about to embark on his 1000 hour journey and since I havedonelittle woodworking, especially planeing work I have a simple question. Howdo I keep from planeing into my forms (I am about to begin building a setofmaple forms for my first try) when getting close to the surface of theforms? Try just using the forms and plane as is and mic your strips when they are close to final dimension, then scrape. In all likelyhood you'll find the problem of planing away the forms isn't as bad as you may think.The forms I'm using are my original ones and I though I'd be replacing or tuning them often but so far it hasn't happened. The final scraping does actually make the forms smoother with use and as long as the scraping is done evenly as it should the amount of wood removed isn't a problem. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Nov 19 07:20:50 1997 Subject: Re: Fungatology 101 Why not take a sample of the cane to a good mycologist in your area andsee whathe or she thinks. If there are spores present in the cane, heat may or maynotdestroy them. Spores occur in fantastic numbers and are fairly durable. Ifpresent the right conditions could restart growth any time. Rememberfungus hasbeen present longer than most plants and even it's myceleum has greatdurabilityand defense mechanisms. WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I got a call from a maker who is using some of the recently deliveredbamboo. The element of the fungus was evident on the inner pith - but inplaning a rod from the bamboo the maker noticed grayish streaks in thepowerfibers. Concern - will that have a long term effect on the rod? Lookingforcomments ???The conversation ended in the thought that through out the life oftonkinbamboo it coexists with the fungus (or rather it is the host for thefungus)and that perhaps the grayish streaks in the power fibers is the last ofthechlorophyll or fungus stain that will diminish with drier conditions andorsunlight. We were both confident that this would be the case. After alltherod will be thermal set at 235 degrees for 3 hours - (the heat should killit). And the epoxy has tolulyene(sp) which is a toxic element - (thefumesshould kill it) - the the rod will be sealed in varnish that will rob thefungus of moisture and oxygen - (which should starve it or choke it). Butstill you wonder - does the light really go out when you shut therefrigerator door? 20 years from now will you hear munching frominside therod - knowing that the fungus is eating the lignum (protein) and that therodis doomed. Wayne from maiello@yorku.ca Wed Nov 19 08:28:03 1997 (Yq88aIfNgVJ1NxSA4RwyFxd/rW4ZJTUT@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA20092 for ; Subject: Re: Fungatology 101 Just my $0.02: I think that once heat treated all the fungus will be dead.Just think of this:What temperature are surgical instruments sterilized at?I dont know, but maybe a doctor on the list may help us with that.I doubt it's as high as 350 deg F. Ps. All 3 of my Demerest culms had mold on the nodes. Mauro On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, George W. Barnes wrote: Why not take a sample of the cane to a good mycologist in your area andsee whathe or she thinks. If there are spores present in the cane, heat may or maynotdestroy them. Spores occur in fantastic numbers and are fairly durable.Ifpresent the right conditions could restart growth any time. Rememberfungus hasbeen present longer than most plants and even it's myceleum has greatdurabilityand defense mechanisms. WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I got a call from a maker who is using some of the recentlydeliveredbamboo. The element of the fungus was evident on the inner pith - butinplaning a rod from the bamboo the maker noticed grayish streaks in thepowerfibers. Concern - will that have a long term effect on the rod? Lookingforcomments ???The conversation ended in the thought that through out the life oftonkinbamboo it coexists with the fungus (or rather it is the host for thefungus)and that perhaps the grayish streaks in the power fibers is the last ofthechlorophyll or fungus stain that will diminish with drier conditions andorsunlight. We were both confident that this would be the case. After alltherod will be thermal set at 235 degrees for 3 hours - (the heat shouldkillit). And the epoxy has tolulyene(sp) which is a toxic element - (thefumesshould kill it) - the the rod will be sealed in varnish that will rob thefungus of moisture and oxygen - (which should starve it or choke it).Butstill you wonder - does the light really go out when you shut therefrigerator door? 20 years from now will you hear munching frominside therod - knowing that the fungus is eating the lignum (protein) and thatthe rodis doomed. Wayne from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Wed Nov 19 08:32:43 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Why not take a sample of the cane to a good mycologist in your area andseewhathe or she thinks. If there are spores present in the cane, heat may or maynotdestroy them. Spores occur in fantastic numbers and are fairly durable. Ifpresent the right conditions could restart growth any time. Rememberfungushasbeen present longer than most plants and even it's mycelium has greatdurabilityand defense mechanisms. You folks are overestimating the role of the fungus in dried and agedbamboo. Fungi, with rare, rare exception, require lots of moisture as wellas nutrients for growth. Fungi require relatively high moisture levels,although some of the higher fungi are able to grow in the absence of actualfree water. A high relative humidity is also required. Maximum growth formost fungi occurs at a relative humidity of 95% to 100%, and growthdeclines or ceases in humidity of 80-85%. A VERY few fungi will grow at arelative humidity as low as 65%. Outside, in nature, wood, for example, isnot decayed by fungi if the moisture content is below 20%.We must remember where bamboo grows--extreme rainfall and highhumidity.The fungal species associated with bamboo in nature will very likely notsurvive in most of the regions of the U.S., and almost certainly will notsurvive under the conditions in which it is recommended bamboo be storedtobe aged, i.e. dry, warm conditions.As far as spores are concerned, yes, they are very hardy. Unless theygerminate, they do no harm (unless you are allergic to fungal spores!). Forgermination to occur, ideal growth conditions must exist, i.e. again, lotsof moisture or humidity, a food source (warm, dried wood is not a goodfoodsource), oxygen, carbon dioxide, micro-nutrients, etc. If failure is due to fungal damage, the damage was already present in thebamboo prior to its purchase, or the finished rod has been left in a damp,cool, shaded environment (someone's attic?) , or was put away wet forverylengthy periods. Jerry SniderProfessor of Biological Sciences andCurator of the Herbarium (CINC) Department of Biological SciencesP.O. Box 210006University of CincinnatiCincinnati, OH 45221-0006Phone: Office/Lab (513)556-9761e- mail: CINC@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDUhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Wed Nov 19 08:54:04 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Re: Fungatology 101 In general, fungi have similar temperature requirements, although, ofcourse, there are many exceptions. Some food-spoiling strains of fungi cangrow at temperatures as low as -5 to -8 deg. C, in most cases theoptimumtemp range lies somewhere between 15 deg and 30 deg. C. Few fungi areableto grow above the maximum temps. of 35-40 deg. C, but the thermal deathpoint for many fungi lies somewhere between 50-60 deg. C (ca. 130 deg. F)in moist heat. It has been recorded that temps. as high as 105 deg C (ca.220 deg. F) may be required for 12 hours to kill all of the wood- rottingfungi in dry blocks of wood. However, since rod builders are heating the wood to "cure" it, or dry itout as well as perhaps to polymerize certain compounds in the wood, onemight assume that your drying treatment would suffice to kill any funguspresent. Since the moisture requirements for any fungus "native" tobamboois likely quite high, they should be even more sensitive to drying out.Also remember how rapidly bamboo grows, sometimes several feet a week(oreven a day in some species). Nutrients are most plentiful and readilyavailable. If the fungus is a species associated with growing, livingbamboo, these conditions will be its requirements. If, however, the fungusis a wood-decay fungus, then it may be a bit more of a problem. Then,again, there is the problem of fungal contamination during the shippingprocess--these may be associated with airborne spores of totallyunrelatedfungal species native to bamboo. However, unless the shipment is storedforseveral weeks before opening, a surface sterilization process may well besufficient to control the "mildew" form of growth, and it likely would beonly surface or superficial contamination. Hope this helps. It has given meenough to think about that I will likely drop this topic on my class thisafternoon. The last several weeks I have been dealing with fungi!9:27 AM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote:Just my $0.02: I think that once heat treated all the fungus will be dead.Just think of this:What temperature are surgical instruments sterilized at?I dont know, but maybe a doctor on the list may help us with that.I doubt it's as high as 350 deg F. Ps. All 3 of my Demerest culms had mold on the nodes. Mauro On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, George W. Barnes wrote: Why not take a sample of the cane to a good mycologist in your area andsee whathe or she thinks. If there are spores present in the cane, heat may ormay notdestroy them. Spores occur in fantastic numbers and are fairly durable.Ifpresent the right conditions could restart growth any time. Rememberfungus hasbeen present longer than most plants and even it's myceleum has greatdurabilityand defense mechanisms. WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I got a call from a maker who is using some of the recentlydeliveredbamboo. The element of the fungus was evident on the inner pith - butinplaning a rod from the bamboo the maker noticed grayish streaks inthepowerfibers. Concern - will that have a long term effect on the rod?Looking forcomments ???The conversation ended in the thought that through out the life oftonkinbamboo it coexists with the fungus (or rather it is the host for thefungus)and that perhaps the grayish streaks in the power fibers is the lastof thechlorophyll or fungus stain that will diminish with drier conditionsand orsunlight. We were both confident that this would be the case. Afterall therod will be thermal set at 235 degrees for 3 hours - (the heat shouldkillit). And the epoxy has tolulyene(sp) which is a toxic element - (thefumesshould kill it) - the the rod will be sealed in varnish that will rob thefungus of moisture and oxygen - (which should starve it or choke it).Butstill you wonder - does the light really go out when you shut therefrigerator door? 20 years from now will you hear munching frominside therod - knowing that the fungus is eating the lignum (protein) and thatthe rodis doomed. Wayne Jerry SniderProfessor of Biological Sciences andCurator of the Herbarium (CINC) Department of Biological SciencesP.O. Box 210006University of CincinnatiCincinnati, OH 45221-0006Phone: Office/Lab (513)556-9761e- mail: CINC@UCBEH.SAN.UC.EDUhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Nov 19 08:57:38 1997 09:58:17 -0600 R8.00.01) Subject: Re[2]: Fungatology 101 The general recommendation for sterilization of surgical instruments is to use saturated steam at 250 degrees F (120 C) for 13 min under pressure. This varies with the material being sterilized (linen takes longer). Wet heat is more effective than dry which is why steam is used. Pressure helps the superheating process. Organisms are muchmore resistant to dry heat than wet heat. Heat tolerance varies with the organism (how about those thermophiles around volcanic vents in the ocean? They are well above 350F). Spores are even more resistant to dry heat than are the organisms they come from. Plus, there is heat up time (the time required for all the culm or instruments to reach this temp). If there is sufficient moisture present there will be a plateau in the temp of the material until it dries off sufficiently unless heated under pressure. I would be surprised if the temp and time of bamboo tempering would kill all mold spores. But, this is just an opinion. Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Fungatology 101 Author: at Internet-Mail Just my $0.02: I think that once heat treated all the fungus will be dead. Just think of this:What temperature are surgical instruments sterilized at?I dont know, but maybe a doctor on the list may help us with that. I doubt it's as high as 350 deg F. Ps. All 3 of my Demerest culms had mold on the nodes. Mauro On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, George W. Barnes wrote: Why not take a sample of the cane to a good mycologist in your area andsee whathe or she thinks. If there are spores present in the cane, heat may or maynotdestroy them. Spores occur in fantastic numbers and are fairly durable.Ifpresent the right conditions could restart growth any time. Rememberfungus hasbeen present longer than most plants and even it's myceleum has great durabilityand defense mechanisms. WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I got a call from a maker who is using some of the recentlydelivered bamboo. The element of the fungus was evident on the inner pith - butinplaning a rod from the bamboo the maker noticed grayish streaks in thepowerfibers. Concern - will that have a long term effect on the rod? Looking comments ???The conversation ended in the thought that through out the life of tonkinbamboo it coexists with the fungus (or rather it is the host for thefungus)and that perhaps the grayish streaks in the power fibers is the last ofthe chlorophyll or fungus stain that will diminish with drier conditions andor sunlight. We were both confident that this would be the case. After allthe rod will be thermal set at 235 degrees for 3 hours - (the heat shouldkillit). And the epoxy has tolulyene(sp) which is a toxic element - (thefumes should kill it) - the the rod will be sealed in varnish that will rob the fungus of moisture and oxygen - (which should starve it or choke it).But still you wonder - does the light really go out when you shut therefrigerator door? 20 years from now will you hear munching frominside the rod - knowing that the fungus is eating the lignum (protein) and thatthe rodis doomed. Wayne from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Nov 19 10:05:13 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Nyatex times It seems I run into questions at every stage of this rodbuildingbusiness. That's one great thing about this list. I glued the sections time between air drying and heat setting is critical. Wayne C. says heair dries for 16 hours, then heat sets. Does anyone know what willhappen if I wait longer than 16 hours? Say 24, or 36 hours? Thanks in advance for the help! from rfairfie@cisco.com Wed Nov 19 10:40:44 1997 IAA21603 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 08:40:06 - Subject: Re: Nyatex times Harry, I have let my sections air dry for over 24 hours, and have not beenable to detect any difference in performance, etc, than when I let air drythe 16 hours mentioned in Wayne's book. Thanks,Roger from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Nov 19 08:06:08 1997Date: Wed, 19 Nov 1997 10:05:36 -0600 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "Harry Boyd, Jr." Subject: Nyatex timesMIME-Version: 1.0Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX- Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN It seems I run into questions at every stage of this rodbuildingbusiness. That's one great thing about this list. I glued the sections time between air drying and heat setting is critical. Wayne C. says heair dries for 16 hours, then heat sets. Does anyone know what willhappen if I wait longer than 16 hours? Say 24, or 36 hours? Thanks in advance for the help! from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Nov 19 10:41:08 1997 Subject: Classic Sporting Enterprizes To all, Heard they moved - true? - have any of you got new address/phone #. regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Nov 19 10:41:12 1997 Subject: Everdur To all, Any of you guys ever used this material for ferrules or reel seats? Do youhave any idea of the metal %'s., Color, etc. TIA, regards, Don from flyfisher@rhco.com Wed Nov 19 12:02:42 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id NAA13900 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Bamboo Update If anybody's wondering about their orders from Demarest, I have an order November. It turns out that the shipment is late leaving China and isexpected sometime in the middle of December, which means we mayreceiveour orders early next year. Brian from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Nov 19 12:06:20 1997 Subject: Frazer's Immortal Prose To the list,A while back there was much ado about someone seeking rod books byPerry DFrazer. My 1949 edition of his Amateur Rodmaking is available. Bill from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Nov 19 14:13:34 1997 Subject: Re: Classic Sporting Enterprizes In a message dated 97-11-19 11:46:09 EST, you write: Don: Roaring Brook RoadRD #3, Box 3Barton, VT 05822Ph 802-525-3623Fax -3982 Cheers and hope the wx is being kind to you and your fishing excursions.Regards,Richard Tyree from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Nov 19 14:54:57 1997 Subject: Re: Everdur I've made a number of ferrules from Everdur. My major objection has beendiscoloration as time goes on. Like most bronze, it has a tendency to turndark and dull. Cecil Pierce use to say it was a "devil's metal" to work andthat was from a man who at times made his living as a machinest. If Irememberright, it's a silicon bronze but I don't have the composition. Don Andersen wrote: To all, Any of you guys ever used this material for ferrules or reel seats? Doyouhave any idea of the metal %'s., Color, etc. TIA, regards, Don from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Nov 19 17:31:09 1997 Subject: Re: Nyatex times Harry -The Nyatex epoxy glue can be used with many drying regiments - Evenwithoutthermal setting the glue will set but it will take several days dependingonall those variable things (temp-humidity). It isn't a problem to thermalseteither earlier or later. The 16 hour target window was developed more bylifestyle than rocket science. If I glue parts in the evening say between10pm - 2am I will then throw the section in the oven upon return homefromthe real job (4:30 pm). The testing that was done on the glue showed thatthere was advantage in thermal setting the glue - the hours of air dryingbefore showed modest changes. I was conducting a class one time and it was saturday morning and oops- astrip got broken - by saturday afternoon the rod was on its way with theferrules mounted. In this case it air dried for 1 hour before thermalsetting.AND - a time saver that I now do, thanks to Al Medved's suggestion, isthat after the air dry time I carefully remove the original binding threadand rebind with fresh thread before thermal setting. At the end the threadcomes off where in the past it had to be filed or sanded off.Finally - Mark Metcalf mentioned that you were proposing a southernrodmakers get together - Keep us posted on your progress - There are severalmakers south of the Mason-Dixon and some carpet baggers that I'm surewouldattend as well. Over the years I have lost touch with some folks - one ofthethings I regret the most - But somewhere in your state is Frank Erlicher -Frank and Richard Tyree came to Michigan and spent a couple of days in theshop with me several years ago. Nice folks. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Nov 19 17:31:34 1997 Subject: Re: Classic Sporting Enterprizes Don -Bailey's new Info: Classic Sporting entRoaring Brook RoadRFD # 3 Box # 3Barton, VT 05822 802-525-3623 from jsbond@inforamp.net Wed Nov 19 19:17:42 1997 Subject: Re: Classic Sporting Enterprizes I faxed Bailey last week at his same number and rc'd a reply. JB At 10:00 19/11/97, you wrote:To all, Heard they moved - true? - have any of you got new address/phone #. regards, Don James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Nov 19 19:57:24 1997 Subject: Re:New Magazine Fellow Listers,I am going to meet with the editors of the new magazine.A couple of days ago someone on this thread suggested that someone should visit the office of this magazine. I'mwilling to take any suggestions, comments, or questionsanyone might have to the meeting. We discussed various things over the phone, they wantto see my rods, and one of the things they really perked up on was when I mentioned that I just got a bundle of Royer cane. They want me to bring in the bundle so they can look at it. They also want me to bring in a couple of Demarest culms. Sounds like an article in the making.... Darryl Hayashida from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed Nov 19 20:46:06 1997 Subject: Re: Nyatex times Just so you are clear....the 16 hour air dry is a result of a new approachthat Wayne (and I kind of) experimented with this past summer during hisclasses at Grayrock. The purpose is actually to alter the "wrapimpressions"that come from the binding cord on the rod section after it is cured. Wewere working on a two wieght of mine and found that if it was air driedthenthe string was removed AND ANOTHER NON-GLUE SATURATED binding cordput in itsplace then sanding was easier after the heat cure. It seemed to work verywell (after "blowing out" a mid section of Waynes 3 piece). "Chime" in if Ihave mis-stated anything Wayne.Doug HallBroad River Bamboo from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Nov 19 21:07:54 1997 Subject: Re: Classic Sporting Enterprizes CLASSIC SPORTING ENTERPRISES,INC.Roaring Brook Rd.RD# 3, Box 3Barton, Vermont 05822802-525-3623 Fax 802-525-3982 Dave L. from stpete@netten.net Wed Nov 19 21:28:00 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA10943 for; Wed, 19 Nov 1997 21:30:18 -0600 Subject: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers Amateur ready to make his first rod. I own Heddon, Phillipson, andThomas 5/6 wts. The Heddon 2F (#115 Premier made for Sears) comesclosest to what I need, but is missing something. What I would like is your input on your favorite tapers which cast aDT#6 well. The rod will be used on Mid-South tailwaters. The rod Ihope to build will lay out a long fine leader with #22-26 midge emerger,or toss a #8 Wooly Bugger. Soft hackle fishing common as well. I'dhope for a delicate presentation for the midge, gnat and caddis hatches,and enough backbone in the rod to handle the 20" bows and 24" brownsthat show up regularly when throwing buggers and nymphs. I've checked the archives, but don't know enough to decipher the action from the stress curves. I noticed Wayne Cattanach's 6DT, the Orvis Rod,Young rods, etc. My casting style is geared toward the mid rangeactions I suppose. Let's just say I do well with my PhillipsonPacemaker and Heddon with a 5 DT. Hope that paints the picture. Thanks RickThanks from jczimny@dol.net Wed Nov 19 22:18:20 1997 Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers Hard to beat the Paul Young Para 15 for that purpose. Has to be amongthe top 10 taper designs ever created. Should suit your needs well.John Zimny from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Nov 20 09:22:57 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: New Magazine SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Fellow Listers,I am going to meet with the editors of the new magazine.A couple of days ago someone on this thread suggestedthat someone should visit the office of this magazine. I'mwilling to take any suggestions, comments, or questionsanyone might have to the meeting. > Darryl Hayashida Daryl, just my $.02. 1) I'd like to see the magazine have some sort of editorial integrity,i.e., not be controlled by the whims of advertisers. I'm sure the neweditors are interested in getting Orvis on board, but I don't want everyarticle to read like Orvis is the only rod out there. (Orvis is onlyused as an example, one of my best friends owns an Orvis shop, and I ownan Orvis rod!) 2) I'd like to see some comparisons of materials, techniques, etc; thathave some backbone. Impregnation vs. Varnish vs. poly, for example. Myhope would be for independent testing or qualified scientific reasoningrather than emotional opinions. Our friend Terry might not be the bestchoice of authors. 3) I'd love to see high quality photographs of great rods. I'd like toknow what a Payne grip looks like. I'd like to be able to compare thedifference in lightly and medium flamed from looking at the photo's. I'll come up with more suggestions as I think about this. When areyouto meet with them? Giving this some thought takes a slow mind like minesome time. Harry Boyd from flytier@worldonline.nl Thu Nov 20 10:42:03 1997 (MET) Subject: Rod pix (was: New Magazine) "Harry Boyd, Jr." wrote: ...3) I'd love to see high quality photographs of great rods. I'd liketo know what a Payne grip looks like. I'd like to be able tocompare the difference in lightly and medium flamed from looking atthe photo's. ... Harry, While I can do much better with a regular camera, I got some pretty decent scans by placing parts of actual flyrods under the scanner flap. To see what two really good quality (IMO) rods look like, perhaps you might want to amble over to these urls: Tom Moran 7'6" #4 (2pc/2tip) http://home.worldonline.nl/~flytier/tmoran1.jpghttp://home.worldonline.nl/~flytier/tmoran2.jpghttp://home.worldonline.nl/~flytier/tmoran3.jpghttp://home.worldonline.nl/~flytier/tmoran4.jpghttp://home.worldonline.nl/~flytier/tmoran5.jpg Guenther Henschler 7'4" #4 (3pc/1tip) http://home.worldonline.nl/~flytier/henschl1.jpghttp://home.worldonline.nl/~flytier/henschl2.jpghttp://home.worldonline.nl/~flytier/henschl3.jpg Enjoy,Hans====================== You have friends in Low Places======================= ============================================================================= from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Nov 20 12:08:33 1997 Subject: Re: New Magazine In a message dated 97-11-20 12:19:21 EST, you write: I'll come up with more suggestions as I think about this. When areyouto meet with them? Giving this some thought takes a slow mind likeminesome time. Harry Boyd I've saved your suggestions, they sound reasonable and well thought out.I'm meeting with them on this Saturday afternoon, the 22nd. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Nov 20 13:28:32 1997 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine On Line Subscriptions Just got off the phone with Mark Metcalf, the editorof the magazine. He wants me to pass on to the listthat they are working on an automatic reply that yoursubscription has been received when you submit the form. They are also going to go back to the peoplealready subscribed and let them know. Mark also mentioned that they already have over 100 subscriptions! Not bad for only being on-line for a couple weeks! Darryl Hayashida from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Nov 20 16:22:26 1997 MAA19420 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 20 Nov 1997 12:40:34 - Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine On Line Subscriptions I just got back on the list. How and where do I subscribe to thismagazine? Thanks,Roger from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Nov 20 11:31:54 1997X-UIDL: 8f4650cc175df7a6836e40e70b2f2179 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine On Line SubscriptionsX-Listprocessor- Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 440 Just got off the phone with Mark Metcalf, the editorof the magazine. He wants me to pass on to the listthat they are working on an automatic reply that yoursubscription has been received when you submit the form. They are also going to go back to the peoplealready subscribed and let them know. Mark also mentioned that they already have over 100 subscriptions! Not bad for only being on-line for a couple weeks! Darryl Hayashida from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Nov 20 17:12:53 1997 Subject: Re: Frazer's Immortal Prose In a message dated 97-11-20 09:58:56 EST, you write: Hello Bill: Have already located a copy; thanks for the offer.Regards,Richard from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Nov 20 17:16:10 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA08104 for Subject: Re: Fungal 101 Gentle people, As a Biologist, but not a mycologist, I have a couple of comments: 1. Yes, some fungal spores are difficult to kill. The famous red breadmold's spores usually have to survive a fire to germinate. They are notkilled in the bakery oven. 2. Autoclaves (steam sterilizers) operate at about 215 degrees F at apressure of 17 psi for about 30 min. This kills most of the common stuffbut some bacterial spores can survive. Hot steam is the active principle. Iexpect this would turn cane to mush. Dry heat is not as effective. 3.One of the better all-purpose fungicides is chlorine bleach (30%).Somespores,however, are not killed by it. There are a number of fungicides usedin the garden. Since cane is plant material, it might be possible to usesomething like Fungex (Ortho) or some other garden fungicide. 4. As mentioned earlier, knowing something about the fungus wouldbe helpful. Doug Easton At 09:27 AM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote:Just my $0.02: I think that once heat treated all the fungus will be dead.Just think of this:What temperature are surgical instruments sterilized at?I dont know, but maybe a doctor on the list may help us with that.I doubt it's as high as 350 deg F. Ps. All 3 of my Demerest culms had mold on the nodes. Mauro On Wed, 19 Nov 1997, George W. Barnes wrote: Why not take a sample of the cane to a good mycologist in your area andsee whathe or she thinks. If there are spores present in the cane, heat may ormay notdestroy them. Spores occur in fantastic numbers and are fairly durable.Ifpresent the right conditions could restart growth any time. Rememberfungus hasbeen present longer than most plants and even it's myceleum has greatdurabilityand defense mechanisms. WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I got a call from a maker who is using some of the recentlydeliveredbamboo. The element of the fungus was evident on the inner pith - butinplaning a rod from the bamboo the maker noticed grayish streaks inthepowerfibers. Concern - will that have a long term effect on the rod?Looking forcomments ???The conversation ended in the thought that through out the life oftonkinbamboo it coexists with the fungus (or rather it is the host for thefungus)and that perhaps the grayish streaks in the power fibers is the lastof thechlorophyll or fungus stain that will diminish with drier conditionsand orsunlight. We were both confident that this would be the case. Afterall therod will be thermal set at 235 degrees for 3 hours - (the heat shouldkillit). And the epoxy has tolulyene(sp) which is a toxic element - (thefumesshould kill it) - the the rod will be sealed in varnish that will rob thefungus of moisture and oxygen - (which should starve it or choke it).Butstill you wonder - does the light really go out when you shut therefrigerator door? 20 years from now will you hear munching frominside therod - knowing that the fungus is eating the lignum (protein) and thatthe rodis doomed. Wayne from LOUKAS@aol.com Thu Nov 20 20:24:02 1997 Subject: unsubscribe Please help me get off the e-mail list. I sent notice to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu and got a reply that themessagecould not be delivered. thanks, Michael Clarkaka/Loukas@aol.com from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Thu Nov 20 20:54:24 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA21641 +0000 Subject: Re: Frazer's Immortal Prose -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Frazer's Immortal Prose In a message dated 97-11-20 09:58:56 EST, you write: To the list,A while back there was much ado about someone seeking rod books byPerryDFrazer. My 1949 edition of his Amateur Rodmaking is available. Bill Hello Bill: Have already located a copy; thanks for the offer.Regards,Richard Richard: And it is on its way via the USPS. If you already sent the check, I owe you2 bucks since mailing first class was only three bucks. Will pay you inTennessee script. Later,Dick from bokstrom@axionet.com Thu Nov 20 21:03:55 1997 Fri, 21 Nov 1997 03:03:24 GMT Subject: New Magazine Just for interest, here is an excerpt from an an interview of Martin Keane,pertaining to hisresearch for his Classic Rods and Rodmakers. It appeared in The Flyfisher,Volume XIII/Number II, 1980. "I tried to compile all the various facts offered by the articles [onsplitbamboo rods published in the last 40 years]" he said, "but I soon learnedthere were so many grave errors and contradictions in so many of thearticles that I burned all 200 of them." One hopes the publishers of the proposed new magazine have enoughknowledge of bamboo rods, bamboo rod builders and bamboo rod buildingthatthey won't repeat the "many grave errors and contradictions" that haveappeared in the past. John from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 20 21:15:40 1997 Fri, 21 Nov 1997 11:15:29 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: New Magazine On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, John Bokstrom wrote: Just for interest, here is an excerpt from an an interview of MartinKeane,pertaining to hisresearch for his Classic Rods and Rodmakers. It appeared in TheFlyfisher,Volume XIII/Number II, 1980. "I tried to compile all the various facts offered by the articles [onsplitbamboo rods published in the last 40 years]" he said, "but I soon learnedthere were so many grave errors and contradictions in so many of thearticles that I burned all 200 of them." One hopes the publishers of the proposed new magazine have enoughknowledge of bamboo rods, bamboo rod builders and bamboo rod buildingthatthey won't repeat the "many grave errors and contradictions" that haveappeared in the past. John Wot, are you suggesting there is more than one way to make cane rods?? ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Nov 20 21:22:17 1997 Subject: Re: Embarking on the Journey Welcome to the Party!In answer to your question, You Don't!! You plane into the forms andcuss and worry, then you get more careful. It's like burning yourfingers on a hot stove. A painful, but enduring lesson. Brian from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Nov 20 23:54:22 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine To anybody who might be in commo with these guys: You might mention that there are folks who have given up trying tocommunicate with them out of aggravation with their website. They aregoingto have to get that fixed if they want to move forward with this project. Davy from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Nov 21 00:14:58 1997 Subject: test This is a test from fer@surfplanet.com Fri Nov 21 03:44:11 1997 JAA20224 for ; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:44:44GMT Subject: Weldwood resin glue To the list, I'm running out of my usual rod glue, Welwood Plastic Resin Glue fromDAP inc.It has been performing quite well so far (somebody told me that Winstonwas usingit for years). I would like to know your opinion about it if you have tocompare to otherglues, and a good dealer to get such glues. Thanks in advance and regards,Fernando from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Nov 21 07:57:18 1997 Subject: Re: Re: NS Backening Agent In a message dated 11/21/97 10:23:32 AM, you wrote: Dave - You can get a nice looking bronze color on 300 series (non- magnetic)stainless by heating it to 600-700 degrees F, and holding it there for anhour. A durable bronze colored oxide will form. This will not adverselyaffect either temper or corrosion resistance. You do need to controltemperature, however, as 900 degrees and over will produce some nastyeffects. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 21 09:40:21 1997 Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers At 23:09 19/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Hard to beat the Paul Young Para 15 for that purpose. Has to be amongthe top 10 taper designs ever created. Should suit your needs well.John Zimny John, Do you have the taper for the above rod? Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 21 09:40:26 1997 Subject: The new mag To the list, http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888 Note Heartland and Acres must be as written To directly email the editor: Mark Metcalf Don from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 21 10:22:28 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine In a message dated 97-11-21 04:33:38 EST, you write: You might mention that there are folks who have given up trying tocommunicate with them out of aggravation with their website. They aregoingto have to get that fixed if they want to move forward with thisproject. Give them a little time. Their web site has only been up for a coupleweeks, and it is done in house - not by a professional agency. I dothe web site for the company I work for, and it took me a couple months to get all the bugs ironed out. Darryl Hayashida from DEMARALON@aol.com Fri Nov 21 10:33:41 1997 Subject: CHANGE OF AREA CODE Telephone 973 492-1414Fax 973 838-6538 Our e-mail address continues to be Demaralon @aol.com. Happy Thanksgiving to all. Harold & Eileen Demarest, Charles H.Demarest, Inc. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Nov 21 11:00:12 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA285631612; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:00:13 -0800 Subject: How Many Rods? I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, and also to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakers listserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made? How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored? How many years have you been working with bamboo rods? What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary? As for me, I've been involved with bamboo rods for approximately three years. I am not a rodmaker currently so I have made zero rods. I have restored or refinished 46 rods and have 5 in progress. My favorite flyrod is an A.J. Thramer 7' 4 wt. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rfairfie@cisco.com Fri Nov 21 11:08:06 1997 JAA04382 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 09:07:33 - Subject: Re: How Many Rods? from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Nov 21 09:01:34 1997Date: Fri, 21 Nov 97 8:56:41 PST Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL" Subject: How Many Rods?X-Priority: 3 (Normal)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 - - ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 692 I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, andalso to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakers listserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made? seven How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored? three How many years have you been working with bamboo rods? two What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary? My first--A Wayne special 7 1/2 feet 4 wt. As for me, I've been involved with bamboo rods for approximately three years. I am not a rodmaker currently so I have made zero rods. I have restored or refinished 46 rods and have 5 in progress. My favorite flyrod is an A.J. Thramer 7' 4 wt. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Nov 21 11:44:50 1997 (8.8.5/InetRelay-1.10) with ESMTP id MAA20989 for (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: How Many Rods? How many bamboo rods have you made? seven How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored? 0 How many years have you been working with bamboo rods? 6 months, I've only seen 3 other bamboo rods. What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary? Chris Bogart's Yellow Rose or Wayne's 6' 3 weight. I trulycan't decide. Brian ThomanAtlanta, GA from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Nov 21 12:09:55 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? F2D4A3C09A4526B1E4F9C680" --------------F2D4A3C09A4526B1E4F9C680 CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: How many bamboo rods have you made?125 plusHow many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored?20-30How many years have you been working with bamboo rods?25What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary?I have two a 6'4wt and 7.6' 6 wt both my own design What do you intend to do with the information? Ralph Moon --------------F2D4A3C09A4526B1E4F9C680 CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: How many bamboo rods have you made?125 plusHow many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored?20-30How many years have you been working with bamboo rods?25 What do you intend to do with the information? --------------F2D4A3C09A4526B1E4F9C680-- from jczimny@dol.net Fri Nov 21 13:33:03 1997 Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers Don Andersen wrote: At 23:09 19/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Hard to beat the Paul Young Para 15 for that purpose. Has to be amongthe top 10 taper designs ever created. Should suit your needs well.John Zimny John, Do you have the taper for the above rod? DonJust the one in Wayne's book. Do you want it.John from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 21 14:05:19 1997 Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers At 14:23 21/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Don Andersen wrote: At 23:09 19/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Hard to beat the Paul Young Para 15 for that purpose. Has to be amongthe top 10 taper designs ever created. Should suit your needs well.John Zimny John, Do you have the taper for the above rod? DonJust the one in Wayne's book. Do you want it.John John, Yupe! Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 21 14:21:38 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? At 08:56 21/11/97 PST,Mac writes:I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, andalso to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakers listserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made? over 60 How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored? 12 or so How many years have you been working with bamboo rods? 16 years What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary? My own [a 7'9" 5 wt.] - can't afford the classic ones although I have afriend that has a Orivs I really like - got several of my own but stuck inthe hinterlands of Alberta, Canada my exposure to classics is limited. As for me, I've been involved with bamboo rods for approximately three years. I am not a rodmaker currently so I have made zero rods. I have restored or refinished 46 rods and have 5 in progress. My favorite flyrod is an A.J. Thramer 7' 4 wt. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from nicksco@fia.net Fri Nov 21 15:02:13 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA25901 for Subject: wright mcgill- granger champion i recenty found a rod in a uncles garage that i was cleaning after hepassed away. it is a 3 pc with wright mcgill granger champion handwritten on it does any one know any info. on it? i am new to the list,and have only refinished rods thanks from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Nov 21 15:06:37 1997 Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers In a message dated 11/21/97 6:09:55 PM, you wrote: It's soft enough for the light tippets, but has enough punch for heavier flysand longer casts. from stpete@netten.net Fri Nov 21 16:34:08 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA05280 for; Fri, 21 Nov 1997 16:37:18 -0600 Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers Don Andersen wrote: At 14:23 21/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Don Andersen wrote: At 23:09 19/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Hard to beat the Paul Young Para 15 for that purpose. Has to be amongthe top 10 taper designs ever created. Should suit your needs well.John Zimny John, Do you have the taper for the above rod? DonJust the one in Wayne's book. Do you want it.John John, Yupe! Don Hey, John, I'll take it too if it's different from the taper listed onthe Rodmakers page! Thanks, Rick (stpete@netten.net) from jdonovan@csn.net Fri Nov 21 18:02:58 1997 Subject: Re: wright mcgill- granger champion Suggest you contact Roger Murphy who head ups the repair shop and retail store at Eagle Claw, Denver, 303-321-1481, Ext. 283. Regards,Jerry DonovanLittleton, CO On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, C. O. Nicks wrote: i recenty found a rod in a uncles garage that i was cleaning after hepassed away. it is a 3 pc with wright mcgill granger champion handwritten on it does any one know any info. on it? i am new to the list,and have only refinished rods thanks from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 21 19:25:08 1997 Sat, 22 Nov 1997 09:24:49 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: How Many Rods? On Fri, 21 Nov 1997, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, andalso to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakers listserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made?23 using Tonkin How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored?3 How many years have you been working with bamboo rods?Strictly speaking What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary?Usually the latest one I've made :-) but the "Driggs River Special" by Paul Young would be hard to beat, possibly WC's version of a "Parra 15" Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Nov 21 19:37:58 1997 Subject: Gorbiet (sp?) Files I was just talking to Bailey Wood - Classic Sporting Ent - He is puttingtogether a special order on the # 8 file used to lap ferrule males. Thesefiles were discontinued about a year ago. I said I would pass this along tothe list. He is only going to order an exact number - in other words he isn'tgoing to stock then. The Cost is $34 each. For further information or toorder please contact Bailey at 802 - 525 - 3623 from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Nov 21 19:47:52 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? Mac - rods madepersonal - 101students - 78 refinished21 making experience16 years FavoritesCurrent - the 'on the dash' 6'3" # 4 - Past Leonard Catskill 7' # 2 Wayne from rcurry@jlc.net Fri Nov 21 19:49:35 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA26726 for Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers stpete wrote: Amateur ready to make his first rod. I own Heddon, Phillipson, andThomas 5/6 wts. The Heddon 2F (#115 Premier made for Sears) comesclosest to what I need, but is missing something. What I would like is your input on your favorite tapers which cast aDT#6 well. The rod will be used on Mid-South tailwaters. The rod Ihope to build will lay out a long fine leader with #22-26 midge emerger,or toss a #8 Wooly Bugger. Soft hackle fishing common as well. I'dhope for a delicate presentation for the midge, gnat and caddis hatches,and enough backbone in the rod to handle the 20" bows and 24" brownsthat show up regularly when throwing buggers and nymphs. I've checked the archives, but don't know enough to decipher the action from the stress curves. I noticed Wayne Cattanach's 6DT, the Orvis Rod,Young rods, etc. My casting style is geared toward the mid rangeactions I suppose. Let's just say I do well with my PhillipsonPacemaker and Heddon with a 5 DT. Hope that paints the picture. Thanks RickThanksI rather favor the F.E. Thomas 9' listed in the archives. It does all ofthe above very well. from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Fri Nov 21 20:22:35 1997 (post.office MTA v1.9.3b ID# 0-11388) with SMTP id AAA539 0500 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent In a message dated 11/21/97 10:23:32 AM, you wrote: blackenthenickel.>> Dave - You can get a nice looking bronze color on 300 series (non- magnetic)stainless by heating it to 600-700 degrees F, and holding it there for anhour. A durable bronze colored oxide will form. This will not adverselyaffect either temper or corrosion resistance. You do need to controltemperature, however, as 900 degrees and over will produce some nastyeffects. Hi Tom, Could this bronzing also be accomplished say with a kitchen oven at 500 degrees F for a longer period of time? Or any idea who I should ask for in the yellow pages? I am also assuming that regular Perfection non-chromed stainless steel guides are suitable for this process, I hope this is correct. Hopefully, you can come to the Grand River Rodgathering in Ontario for the up coming Memorial Day weekend in May '98. I think everyone would be in awe to see you demonstrate your twisted rods, I know I'll never forget that demo. in PA a few years back. Thanks in advance! from Canerods@aol.com Fri Nov 21 22:26:54 1997 Subject: Re: wright mcgill- granger champion In a message dated 97-11-21 18:00:12 EST, you write: Nick, That's a decent rod from a good company - DON"T remove the shaftwritting!!!!! Buy a copy of Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" @$25fordetails on this rod and refinishing tips. Check out the Classic Angler urltoo. If it's a 9' rod with both tips/bag and tube then it's worth $200 - $300depending upon finish. If rod sections are broken then somewhat less. Don from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Fri Nov 21 22:30:17 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, andalsoto get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakerslistservmembers. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made? +200 How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored? 40 Est. How many years have you been working with bamboo rods? 7+ What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary?Granger Victory As for me, I've been involved with bamboo rods for approximately three years. I am not a rodmaker currently so I have made zero rods. Ihaverestored or refinished 46 rods and have 5 in progress. My favoriteflyrodis an A.J. Thramer 7' 4 wt. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Sat Nov 22 01:44:24 1997 (parkerdh@localhost) with SMTP id AAA39742 Sat, 22 Nov 1997 00:44:15 -0700 Subject: Re: Gorbiet (sp?) Files GROBET files are Swiss-made. Why put an order together? Why not buythemin Canada? We have two firms who could supply you right away here inEdmonton!Let me know if you want to know the names and addresses. David Parker On Fri, 21 Nov 1997 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I was just talking to Bailey Wood - Classic Sporting Ent - He is puttingtogether a special order on the # 8 file used to lap ferrule males. Thesefiles were discontinued about a year ago. I said I would pass this alongtothe list. He is only going to order an exact number - in other words heisn'tgoing to stock then. The Cost is $34 each. For further information or toorder please contact Bailey at 802 - 525 - 3623 from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Nov 22 04:42:04 1997 ; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 11:44:07 GMT Subject: The Grantham Beveller Quite a few folks have been mailing me off list with questions about theBritish Grantham beveller. Fellas - I'm two hundred miles away from Barrry, and I just don't have theanswers to all the technical queeries. As it has come up a couple of timesIhave at least got the answer from Barry that the high speeed cutter feedwill be power driven on a lathe type leadscrew with in/out half-nut on alever. Feed will be approx. 3"/ sec. I gather that it is similar in somerespects to the system Hardys used for their famous Palakona splitbamboo. You should write to Barry directly as follows: Barry Grantham7 Brant Road,Lincoln,LN5 8RLEngland or you can fax him on: (International Code 44) 01522.535500 John Cooper (England) from SSunderl@aol.com Sat Nov 22 08:30:34 1997 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine On Line Subscriptions Where can I get more info on this. I just joined the list and missed theinitial messages on this on-line magazine. from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Nov 22 08:39:54 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11074 for Subject: Re: How Many Rods? At 08:56 AM 11/21/97 PST, you wrote:I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, andalso to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakers listserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made? none, zero, zip How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored? four How many years have you been working with bamboo rods? tenWhat is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary? W&M Granger Aristocrat 8' 6" #5, Webber by Heddon 8'6" #5/6 As for me, I've been involved with bamboo rods for approximately three years. I am not a rodmaker currently so I have made zero rods. I have restored or refinished 46 rods and have 5 in progress. My favorite flyrod is an A.J. Thramer 7' 4 wt. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Sat Nov 22 08:43:59 1997 (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Sat, 22 Nov 97 09:43:10 EST Subject: Re: Nyatex times I have a report to make concerning the two double-binding technique.I just finished sanding a Garrison 209E (7'9") using the technique and it isabsolutely clear to me that there is less sanding required, and, as animportant result, less toxic epoxy dust. (Though I still wear a dust maskand suggest those who sand epoxy do the same.) The first string cane off easily, and the second came off just aseasily. Without the string, I did not have to use a file for the firstsanding effort: I used 220 grit paper, and followed it with 320 for thefinal surface. It does, of course, use twice as much string, but that's cheapcompared to the hours of sanding needed to cut the epoxy saturated string. This new technique represents a real improvement in buildingmethods, and the innovators should be pleased to have made such a usefulmodification. The rest of us should be grateful for their contribution. Iknow I am, --Mark Freed At 09:45 PM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote: Just so you are clear....the 16 hour air dry is a result of a new approachthat Wayne (and I kind of) experimented with this past summer during hisclasses at Grayrock. The purpose is actually to alter the "wrapimpressions"that come from the binding cord on the rod section after it is cured. Wewere working on a two wieght of mine and found that if it was air driedthenthe string was removed AND ANOTHER NON-GLUE SATURATED binding cordput in itsplace then sanding was easier after the heat cure. It seemed to workverywell (after "blowing out" a mid section of Waynes 3 piece). "Chime" in ifIhave mis- stated anything Wayne.Doug HallBroad River Bamboo Prof. Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Literature and LanguageCentral Michigan University from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Nov 22 10:13:30 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers me to if its different ----------From: stpete[SMTP:stpete@netten.net] Sent: Friday, November 21, 1997 2:30 PM Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers Don Andersen wrote: At 14:23 21/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Don Andersen wrote: At 23:09 19/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Hard to beat the Paul Young Para 15 for that purpose. Has to beamongthe top 10 taper designs ever created. Should suit your needswell.John Zimny John, Do you have the taper for the above rod? DonJust the one in Wayne's book. Do you want it.John John, Yupe! Don Hey, John, I'll take it too if it's different from the taper listedonthe Rodmakers page! Thanks, Rick (stpete@netten.net) from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Nov 22 10:17:06 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Gorbiet (sp?) Files please post the names and phone numbers ---------- From:parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca[SMTP:parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca] Sent: Friday, November 21, 1997 11:44 PM Subject: Re: Gorbiet (sp?) Files GROBET files are Swiss-made. Why put an order together? Why not buythemin Canada? We have two firms who could supply you right away here inEdmonton!Let me know if you want to know the names and addresses. David Parker On Fri, 21 Nov 1997 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I was just talking to Bailey Wood - Classic Sporting Ent - He isputtingtogether a special order on the # 8 file used to lap ferrule males.Thesefiles were discontinued about a year ago. I said I would pass thisalong tothe list. He is only going to order an exact number - in other wordshe isn'tgoing to stock then. The Cost is $34 each. For further informationor toorder please contact Bailey at 802 - 525 - 3623 from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Nov 22 10:23:11 1997 Subject: Para-15 To the list, My thanks for the prompt replies. When JZ says its good, its good.Have built a number of Garrison 212's and like them. Just wanted tocompare tapers and perhaps build one after I get the others out of the way.Planning up a couple of 6'ers this AM.Again thanx to all, Don from mrj@seanet.com Sat Nov 22 10:49:52 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29359 for Subject: Re: Nyatex times I'm curious.I would think that the second string is not all that necessary to put backon. I mean, if you removed the string and the glue was not set up and therod separated a bit untill you applied the second string (and that helpedsnug it back up) , I would think that the glue job would be faulty and nomatter what type of heat treating you did, and it would fail.If on the other hand, the glue job is set up properly, and the glue iscompletely dry than the second string would not be doing anything.In other words, if you really need that second string, you have a bad gluejoint anyway.just my observations. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nyatex times I have a report to make concerning the two double-bindingtechnique.I just finished sanding a Garrison 209E (7'9") using the technique and itisabsolutely clear to me that there is less sanding required, and, as animportant result, less toxic epoxy dust. (Though I still wear a dust maskand suggest those who sand epoxy do the same.) The first string cane off easily, and the second came off just aseasily. Without the string, I did not have to use a file for the firstsanding effort: I used 220 grit paper, and followed it with 320 for thefinal surface. It does, of course, use twice as much string, but that's cheapcompared to the hours of sanding needed to cut the epoxy saturatedstring. This new technique represents a real improvement in buildingmethods, and the innovators should be pleased to have made such a usefulmodification. The rest of us should be grateful for their contribution. Iknow I am, --Mark Freed At 09:45 PM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote: Just so you are clear....the 16 hour air dry is a result of a new approachthat Wayne (and I kind of) experimented with this past summer duringhisclasses at Grayrock. The purpose is actually to alter the "wrapimpressions"that come from the binding cord on the rod section after it is cured. Wewere working on a two wieght of mine and found that if it was air driedthenthe string was removed AND ANOTHER NON-GLUE SATURATED bindingcord put initsplace then sanding was easier after the heat cure. It seemed to workverywell (after "blowing out" a mid section of Waynes 3 piece). "Chime" in ifIhave mis- stated anything Wayne.Doug HallBroad River Bamboo Prof. Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Literature and LanguageCentral Michigan University from bjcoch@arkansas.net Sat Nov 22 13:26:09 1997 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id TAA07999 for; Sat, 22 Nov 1997 19:33:19 GMT Subject: Re: Fungatology 101 Mauro Aiello wrote: Just my $0.02: I think that once heat treated all the fungus will be dead.Just think of this:What temperature are surgical instruments sterilized at?I dont know, but maybe a doctor on the list may help us with that.I doubt it's as high as 350 deg F. Ps. All 3 of my Demerest culms had mold on the nodes. Mauro Just so all will know! Surgical Instruments are steralized in an autoclave. The auto clave usually operates at 250-300 deg.F and 15LbSqFpressure. I doubt that any of us would want to inject any more moistureinto our cane than it already has. I would treat the fungus with ananti-fungal solution, you can find several good ones at your localgardening shop, then follow with normal heat treatment. This should killall the fungus and any spores that might be present. Bryant C. from Crossview1@aol.com Sat Nov 22 13:42:19 1997 Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers You wrote: "Hard to beat the Paul Young Para 15 for that purpose. Has to be amongthe top 10 taper designs ever created. Should suit your needs well.John Zimny" Is that a good taper for a bass rod? from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 22 14:25:10 1997 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine On Line Subscriptions In a message dated 97-11-22 10:53:03 EST, you write: Where can I get more info on this. I just joined the list and missed theinitial messages on this on-line magazine. It's not an on-line magazine, it's going to be a for real paper magazine.First issue is due out Jan. of next year. You can subscribe on line at:http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ Darryl Hayashida from jczimny@dol.net Sat Nov 22 16:28:37 1997 Subject: Re: Need input on favorite DT#6 tapers Crossview1@aol.com wrote: You wrote: "Hard to beat the Paul Young Para 15 for that purpose. Has to be amongthe top 10 taper designs ever created. Should suit your needs well.John Zimny" Is that a good taper for a bass rod?Para 17. And the Garrison light salmon rod.John from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Sat Nov 22 17:25:38 1997 (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Sat, 22 Nov 97 18:24:46 EST Subject: Re: Nyatex times Martin, I completely agree: it would seem that if the glue were dry, thesecond binding wouldn't be needed, or as you point out, "be doing anything."However, Wayne indicated to me that when they first tried removing thestring and heat setting the Nyatex without a second binding, the sectioncame apart. On the other hand, it is not hard to believe that the heat (235 deg.F) could make the epoxy fluid again, at least enough to loosen its grip.(Maybe someone who knows more about epoxy and heat could explain to mewhy asecond binding is necessary.) I guess, since it was my first time with the technique, I didn'twant to have a delaminated section when I got through, I was willing to dothe second binding. It's really a small price to pay to make sure thesection doesn't come apart. Once again, Martin, I agree: it doesn't seem like it would be needed. --Mark Freed At 08:50 AM 11/22/97 -0800, you wrote:I'm curious.I would think that the second string is not all that necessary to put backon. I mean, if you removed the string and the glue was not set up and therod separated a bit untill you applied the second string (and that helpedsnug it back up) , I would think that the glue job would be faulty and nomatter what type of heat treating you did, and it would fail.If on the other hand, the glue job is set up properly, and the glue iscompletely dry than the second string would not be doing anything.In other words, if you really need that second string, you have a bad gluejoint anyway.just my observations. -----Original Message-----From: mark m. freed Date: Saturday, November 22, 1997 6:45 AMSubject: Re: Nyatex times I have a report to make concerning the two double-bindingtechnique.I just finished sanding a Garrison 209E (7'9") using the technique and itisabsolutely clear to me that there is less sanding required, and, as animportant result, less toxic epoxy dust. (Though I still wear a dustmaskand suggest those who sand epoxy do the same.) The first string cane off easily, and the second came off just aseasily. Without the string, I did not have to use a file for the firstsanding effort: I used 220 grit paper, and followed it with 320 for thefinal surface. It does, of course, use twice as much string, but that's cheapcompared to the hours of sanding needed to cut the epoxy saturatedstring. This new technique represents a real improvement in buildingmethods, and the innovators should be pleased to have made such ausefulmodification. The rest of us should be grateful for their contribution. Iknow I am, --Mark Freed At 09:45 PM 11/19/97 -0500, you wrote: Just so you are clear....the 16 hour air dry is a result of a new approachthat Wayne (and I kind of) experimented with this past summer duringhisclasses at Grayrock. The purpose is actually to alter the "wrapimpressions"that come from the binding cord on the rod section after it is cured. Wewere working on a two wieght of mine and found that if it was air driedthenthe string was removed AND ANOTHER NON-GLUE SATURATED bindingcord put initsplace then sanding was easier after the heat cure. It seemed to workverywell (after "blowing out" a mid section of Waynes 3 piece). "Chime" inifIhave mis- stated anything Wayne.Doug HallBroad River Bamboo Prof. Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Literature and LanguageCentral Michigan University Prof. Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Literature and LanguageCentral Michigan University from ghinde@inconnect.com Sat Nov 22 19:58:38 1997 0000 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: How Many Rods?Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 9:56 AM I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, andalso to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakers listserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made?6How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored?40est.How many years have you been working with bamboo rods?14What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary?leonard 38 / Wayne C.'s 7' 3-4 wtAs for me, I've been involved with bamboo rods for approximately three years. I am not a rodmaker currently so I have made zero rods. I have restored or refinished 46 rods and have 5 in progress. My favoriteflyrod is an A.J. Thramer 7' 4 wt. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from bokstrom@axionet.com Sat Nov 22 20:43:16 1997 Subject: Fw: New Magazine ----------From: Don Andersen Subject: Re: New MagazineDate: Friday, November 21, 1997 1:05 AM At 08:35 20/11/97 -0800, John wrote: Just for interest, here is an excerpt from an an interview of MartinKeane,pertaining to hisresearch for his Classic Rods and Rodmakers. It appeared in TheFlyfisher,Volume XIII/Number II, 1980. "I tried to compile all the various facts offered by the articles [onsplitbamboo rods published in the last 40 years]" he said, "but I soonlearnedthere were so many grave errors and contradictions in so many of thearticles that I burned all 200 of them." One hopes the publishers of the proposed new magazine have enoughknowledge of bamboo rods, bamboo rod builders and bamboo rod buildingthatthey won't repeat the "many grave errors and contradictions" that haveappeared in the past. John To all, I can only echo John's comments - from some of the stuff I've heard/readover the years about bamboo [in fairness mostly from those that haveneverbeen exposed to cane rods/building] there is a whole lotta crap outthere.Be careful! And Tony - one thing I've really learned is that there is awhole lot of ways to build a rod. Don from bokstrom@axionet.com Sat Nov 22 20:43:18 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: How Many Rods?Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 8:56 AM I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, andalso to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakers listserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made? Approx 70 How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored? 4 How many years have you been working with bamboo rods? 24 What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary? Don Andersen's 7'9" 5 wt. and my own 8'3" 6 wt. As for me, I've been involved with bamboo rods for approximately three years. I am not a rodmaker currently so I have made zero rods. I have restored or refinished 46 rods and have 5 in progress. My favoriteflyrod is an A.J. Thramer 7' 4 wt. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from bokstrom@axionet.com Sat Nov 22 20:43:19 1997 Subject: Re: New Magazine ----------From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Don Andersen Subject: Re: New MagazineDate: Thursday, November 20, 1997 7:15 PM On Thu, 20 Nov 1997, John Bokstrom wrote: Just for interest, here is an excerpt from an an interview of MartinKeane,pertaining to hisresearch for his Classic Rods and Rodmakers. It appeared in TheFlyfisher,Volume XIII/Number II, 1980. "I tried to compile all the various facts offered by the articles [onsplitbamboo rods published in the last 40 years]" he said, "but I soonlearnedthere were so many grave errors and contradictions in so many of thearticles that I burned all 200 of them." One hopes the publishers of the proposed new magazine have enoughknowledge of bamboo rods, bamboo rod builders and bamboo rodbuildingthatthey won't repeat the "many grave errors and contradictions" that haveappeared in the past. John Wot, are you suggesting there is more than one way to make cane rods??;-) Tony I'm suggesting that there has been and continues to be too much BSwrittenabout bamboo rods. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Nov 22 22:00:53 1997 Subject: Re: Nyatex times Mark & Martin -At Grayrock 97 I was talking with Al Medved and during the converstionhementioned that he removes the binding string before he thermal sets theNyatex glue. At the class I did in september I decided to give it a try. Ihad made a butt section and there were several other sections that classmembers had made as well. At 13 hours I chose to test just my section -however upon removal I discovered that it had opened up a bit and wasdestined to be dubbing tools. At that time I still felt that the bindingthread could be removed if the glue were left for a longer period BUT Ididn't want to face further disappointment and made the decision torebind.The next heat treatings went as usual except with the thread having beenchanged it now came off easily. I wasn't going to do further testing. Toremove the thread and rebind took just a few minutes and I felt it was aninsurance against further dubbing tools. I know that epoxy glues do vary indifferent temperatures and humidity. Verses making a suggestion thatmightwork most of the time I chose the safe and recommend rebinding which I'mconfident will work in all cases.. As I mention earlier the 16 hour drying came into effect as part of mylifestyle and that the window is varible. Under pressure I have crept theairdrying time shorter with excellent results. Wayne PS -I could start a new trend - overunder shotguns now come withseparated barrels - I just need to think up this cool reason why aseparatedbutt section would give superior preformance. - Because of the bridgingthatthe glue left it could be considered a queen post design. The venting wouldallow the core of the section to release the heat caused by casting fasterthan conventionally make rods. Because of it lower operating temperaturethebamboo would remain more rigid thus allowing for greater castingdistances. from mrj@seanet.com Sun Nov 23 00:18:18 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA15150 for Subject: Re: Nyatex times You could have something there re- the heat making the glue fluid again.I have never used epoxy and I don't know the properties of it at all. Ihave used both Urac 185 and lately recorcinal. I keep my glued rodsheated to about 100 degrees. I leave the binding cord on for about twodays but I am sure that it is set completely after about a day. I dohave to confess that I do not really heat treat my rods as such. (I doplan on building a heat treater though). I flame temper them prior tosplitting the bamboo. I do this slowly, it is not just for the coloreffect. I take about 15 or 20 minutes to do approx. 3 feet of bamboothen I flip it end for end. mark m. freed wrote: Martin, I completely agree: it would seem that if the glue were dry, thesecond binding wouldn't be needed, or as you point out, "be doinganything."However, Wayne indicated to me that when they first tried removing thestring and heat setting the Nyatex without a second binding, the sectioncame apart. On the other hand, it is not hard to believe that the heat (235 deg.F) could make the epoxy fluid again, at least enough to loosen its grip.(Maybe someone who knows more about epoxy and heat could explain tome why asecond binding is necessary.) I guess, since it was my first time with the technique, I didn'twant to have a delaminated section when I got through, I was willing todothe second binding. It's really a small price to pay to make sure thesection doesn't come apart. Once again, Martin, I agree: it doesn't seem like it would be needed. --Mark FreedMartin Jensen from wishbone@headwaters.com Sun Nov 23 00:32:46 1997 SMTP 02:32:04 -0400 Subject: Shoot! :) woodies@octonline.comthat would be great, rather than fill up the list with the links! Thanks again! IanIan H. Scott32 Brinloor Blvd.,Scarborough, OntarioM1M 1L2http://www.absolute-sway.com/pairowoodieshttp://www.absolute- sway.com/rfa "It is in men as in soils, where sometimes thereis a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."Jonothan Swift IAW from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 23 04:16:50 1997 Sun, 23 Nov 1997 18:16:41 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Fw: New Magazine On Sat, 22 Nov 1997, John Bokstrom wrote: "I tried to compile all the various facts offered by the articles [onsplitbamboo rods published in the last 40 years]" he said, "but I soonlearnedthere were so many grave errors and contradictions in so many of thearticles that I burned all 200 of them." One hopes the publishers of the proposed new magazine have enoughknowledge of bamboo rods, bamboo rod builders and bamboo rodbuildingthatthey won't repeat the "many grave errors and contradictions" that haveappeared in the past. John To all, I can only echo John's comments - from some of the stuff I'veheard/readover the years about bamboo [in fairness mostly from those that haveneverbeen exposed to cane rods/building] there is a whole lotta crap outthere.Be careful! And Tony - one thing I've really learned is that there is awhole lot of ways to build a rod. Don I was sort of kidding when I asked if there were a few different ways of making a rod, guess my Aussie humour didn't come across too well. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Nov 23 10:25:29 1997 Subject: Re:New Magazine In a message dated 97-11-23 05:20:45 EST, you write: I was sort of kidding when I asked if there were a few different ways of making a rod, guess my Aussie humour didn't come across too well. Tony I understood the humor, and I think the Aussie accent came acrosswell also. Your veiled point was well taken also. What may look likea grave contradiction could very well be a difference in building style.The "Old Masters" tended to be an opinionated lot, and I think a littlemarketing of their own products tended to generate what to us looks like BS today. Darryl Hayashida from SealRite@aol.com Sun Nov 23 13:14:01 1997 Subject: Bellinger Beveler manufacture and sell bevelers. There version is based on the old Garrisonbeveler. They are pretty pricey but some quality as reel seats from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Nov 23 13:20:36 1997 Subject: Rod Tapers Reading through the last lot of mail I recieved,I noticed some mention ofan archive of rod tapers on a homepage somewhere. I would be grateful ofany further info re finding any rod taper details available. Thanks Mick Woodruff. from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Nov 23 13:20:52 1997 Subject: Re How Many Rods? I am only very new to the rod building scene, I have completed one rod andhave another three rods in various stages of completion. I have notrestored any rods and only started working with bamboo six months ago. regards Mick Woodruff from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sun Nov 23 14:41:20 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id MAA21941 for ; doing -bs Subject: Urac confusion Today I examined the powder component of Urac 185 using a 10Xmagnifier. I found that the stuff is a lot more coarse than I previously would haveimagined. Rather than being a powder, it is primarily composed of smallsplinters and other chunks of material (I understand that ground up walnutshells are the primary component). I know that sifting the mix has beenadvised, but as John Zimny pointed out to me, the largest particles in themix are actually the acid salts that serve as the active catalyst whenthey dissolve into the resin itself, causing it to harden. Using themagnifier, I could clearly see these acid salt particles, and was able toverify to myself that they are in fact the largest particles I could see. Sifting the mix would just seem to remove much of this active ingredient. What I am confused about is how it is reported that "invisible glue lines" are achieved with a glue as downright chunky as this one seems to be? Theglue lines I have ended up with are of consistent thickness and are quitefine in appearance, but hardly "invisible" if one looks for them up close. Anyone have any observations on the nature of this glue that might clearthis up for me? Thomas PenroseBend, OR from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Nov 23 15:47:57 1997 Subject: Re: Re: NS Backening Agent In a message dated 11/23/97 6:03:16 AM, you wrote: Hi Jorge500 degrees might just be enough, but I'm not sure. Try it and let me know.Maybe a self cleaning cycle would work. Yes, the Perfection all stainlessguides will respond to this treatment, but not the chrome plated ones. Idon't know where to send you for a vendor. Maybe a ceramic kiln can be runinthe temperature range.I doubt I will make the Ontario meeting, as I am going to Corbett lake intheSpring. I'll try to send up a spiral rod for the guys to play with, however. from stpete@netten.net Sun Nov 23 15:52:26 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id PAA22782 for; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 15:56:33 -0600 Subject: Re: Rod Tapers mick woodruff wrote: Reading through the last lot of mail I recieved,I noticed some mention ofan archive of rod tapers on a homepage somewhere. I would be gratefulofany further info re finding any rod taper details available. Thanks Mick Woodruff. Mick, There is an archive of tapers on the Rodmakers home page, I assumedeveryone has visited there because that is where I signed up for the http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Rick C. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Nov 23 16:07:19 1997 Subject: Para 15 taper In a message dated 11/23/97 9:41:23 PM, you wrote: Don and others - The version of this taper with a DF and WF tip is in thetaper archives at the Rodmakers web site, if you want to check it out. from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Nov 23 16:09:02 1997 Subject: Re: Fw: New Magazine tony et al.-Of course there's only one correct way to build a bamboo fly rod, (or doanything else, for that matter)- MY WAY!! ;^)Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Nov 23 16:10:14 1997 Subject: Re: Para-15 Don-Is it winter up there yet?Brian from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Nov 23 16:14:25 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? In a message dated 11/23/97 9:43:20 AM, you wrote: From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: How Many Rods? Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 8:56 AM I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, and also to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakers listserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made? 25 How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored? Don't knowexactly,over 50 at least. How many years have you been working with bamboo rods? 20+restoring, 15building What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary? Either a spiral version of the Garrison 202E, or one of Bill Fink's recent 5strips As for me, I've been involved with bamboo rods for approximately three years. I am not a rodmaker currently so I have made zero rods. I have restored or refinished 46 rods and have 5 in progress. My favorite flyrod is an A.J. Thramer 7' 4 wt. Mac mcdowellc@lanecc.edu from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Nov 23 16:14:51 1997 Subject: Re: Rod Tapers In a message dated 97-11-23 16:16:25 EST, you write: Reading through the last lot of mail I recieved,I noticed some mention ofan archive of rod tapers on a homepage somewhere. I would be gratefulofany further info re finding any rod taper details available. They are on Jerry Foster's web page.http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Darryl Hayashdia from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Sun Nov 23 17:01:26 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA14888 +0000 Subject: Re: Rod Tapers mick woodruff wrote: Reading through the last lot of mail I recieved,I noticed some mention ofan archive of rod tapers on a homepage somewhere. I would be gratefulofany further info re finding any rod taper details available. Thanks Mick Woodruff. Many folks have mentioned Jerry Foster's page. There is also: http://www.teleport.com/~gord/tapers.shtml Regards,Ed Estlow from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Nov 23 17:01:28 1997 Subject: Re: Fw: New Magazine In a message dated 97-11-23 05:20:31 EST, you write: Tony: I thought it was spot on.RTyree from wishbone@headwaters.com Sun Nov 23 17:23:04 1997 SMTP 19:23:41 -0400 Subject: Been A While It has been a long time since I have contributed anything to thegroup. Unfortunately, I have been forced to suspend my own rodbuilding activities, but I certainly am continuing to take aninterest. To that end, I am developing a site called Resources For Anglers athttp://absolute-sway.com/rfa It is still under construction, and we are adding links all the time,but should any from the group know of links that should be there, Iwould especially appreciate it if you would send them to me along withthe category that best suits the site/page content. Please send thelinks to woodies@octonline.com While you are visiting the RFA page, be sure to subscribe to thenewsletter...as if another fishing newsletter was needed huh? Anyhow, sorry guys, that I haven't been around much. Hopefully I willhave more time to read and perhaps add my own 1/2 cent worth! Regards,Ian ScottIan H. Scott32 Brinloor Blvd.,Scarborough, OntarioM1M 1L2http://www.absolute-sway.com/pairowoodieshttp://www.absolute- sway.com/rfa "It is in men as in soils, where sometimes thereis a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."Jonothan Swift IAW from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Nov 23 18:23:35 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Sun,23 Nov 1997 19:24:20 -0500 Subject: Waynes Para 15 Ok, after hearing much about the para 15 that is modified...I am curious, which one is it in his book? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Nov 23 18:28:12 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Sun,23 Nov 1997 19:28:57 -0500 Subject: George Mauer Does anyone know where George got the milling machine he had at Roscoe? I would like to know how much it ran and to see another picture of it. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Nov 23 18:45:30 1997 Subject: Re: Urac confusion In a message dated 97-11-23 17:34:25 EST, you write: Theglue lines I have ended up with are of consistent thickness and are quitefine in appearance, but hardly "invisible" if one looks for them up close. Anyone have any observations on the nature of this glue that might clearthis up for me? The main reason I gave up using URAC 185 was the tendency to givethick glue lines. As you have observed, it is the catalyst that thickensup the consistancy, and it is because the main ingredient is groundwalnut shells. A little while ago there was a thread on a liquid thatworked as a catalyst for URAC 185. If I recall rightly it was JohnZimmney that was experimenting with it. Darryl Hayashida from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 23 18:56:36 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? 75+ rods made, 12 restored (I don't enjoy redoing old work). Favorite rodis71/2 ' for a wf5 line-straight taper of my own design(who's to say ithasn'talready been designed by someone else). I've been planing cane for a littleover 20 years.Hank Woolman. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 23 19:04:10 1997 Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:03:55 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Waynes Para 15 On Sun, 23 Nov 1997, Jon Lintvet wrote: Ok, after hearing much about the para 15 that is modified...I am curious, which one is it in his book? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 8'0" #5 is on page 233 the same but a #6 is on page 234. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 23 19:05:14 1997 Mon, 24 Nov 1997 09:05:01 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Urac confusion Try using Borden liquid. JZ would be able to help on getting it in the US. Tony On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-11-23 17:34:25 EST, you write: Theglue lines I have ended up with are of consistent thickness and arequitefine in appearance, but hardly "invisible" if one looks for them upclose. Anyone have any observations on the nature of this glue that mightclearthis up for me? The main reason I gave up using URAC 185 was the tendency to givethick glue lines. As you have observed, it is the catalyst that thickensup the consistancy, and it is because the main ingredient is groundwalnut shells. A little while ago there was a thread on a liquid thatworked as a catalyst for URAC 185. If I recall rightly it was JohnZimmney that was experimenting with it. Darryl Hayashida /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sun Nov 23 19:34:41 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id RAA26102 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Urac confusion On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote:A little while ago there was a thread on a liquid thatworked as a catalyst for URAC 185. If I recall rightly it was JohnZimmney that was experimenting with it.Darryl Hayashida I had spoken to John about this, and he said that ammonium chloride wouldserve as a hardener, allowing you to mix up a version of Urac that waspurely liquid with none of the solid chunks. However, as the extreme glueconservative that I am (cowardly leaving others to do all of theexperimentation), I am worried about why the formulators of Urac chosetouse the ground up walnut shells in the first place. Under magnification,the splintery nature of this stuff seems like it would serve the purposeof an aggragrate, or reinforcing material that would strengthen the glue,much in the same way as the strength of fiberglass depends on the glassfibers embedded within the resin itself. Does anyone know if removingthewalnut shells harms the Uracs strength significantly? from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Nov 23 19:47:27 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Nyatex times Now Wayne, remember what Jon Bokstrom said about too much bs in canerods.:-) , Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 23 19:55:53 1997 Subject: Re: Urac confusion Tony Young wrote: Try using Borden liquid. JZ would be able to help on getting it in the US. Tony On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-11-23 17:34:25 EST, you write: Theglue lines I have ended up with are of consistent thickness and arequitefine in appearance, but hardly "invisible" if one looks for them upclose. Anyone have any observations on the nature of this glue that mightclearthis up for me? The main reason I gave up using URAC 185 was the tendency to givethick glue lines. As you have observed, it is the catalyst that thickensup the consistancy, and it is because the main ingredient is groundwalnut shells. A little while ago there was a thread on a liquid thatworked as a catalyst for URAC 185. If I recall rightly it was JohnZimmney that was experimenting with it. Darryl Hayashida /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/I've already provided Thomas with all the info on the subject. But, wehave simply got to stop him looking at every glue line with a 10xmaginifier. He's going to drive himself crazy with the "flaw" sickness.John from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sun Nov 23 20:23:56 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id SAA26659 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Urac confusion I've already provided Thomas with all the info on the subject. But, wehave simply got to stop him looking at every glue line with a 10xmaginifier. He's going to drive himself crazy with the "flaw" sickness.John No danger of that John. I'm already crazy :-) Thomas PenroseBend, OR from Bopep@aol.com Sun Nov 23 21:20:43 1997 Subject: Re: Para-17 Makes a good bass rod I hear. Does anybody have the taper available? Hoffhines from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 23 22:23:33 1997 Subject: Re: Urac confusion Thomas Penrose wrote: On Sun, 23 Nov 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote:A little while ago there was a thread on a liquid thatworked as a catalyst for URAC 185. If I recall rightly it was JohnZimmney that was experimenting with it.Darryl Hayashida I had spoken to John about this, and he said that ammonium chloridewouldserve as a hardener, allowing you to mix up a version of Urac that waspurely liquid with none of the solid chunks. However, as the extremeglueconservative that I am (cowardly leaving others to do all of theexperimentation), I am worried about why the formulators of Urac chosetouse the ground up walnut shells in the first place. Under magnification,the splintery nature of this stuff seems like it would serve the purposeof an aggragrate, or reinforcing material that would strengthen the glue,much in the same way as the strength of fiberglass depends on the glassfibers embedded within the resin itself. Does anyone know if removingthewalnut shells harms the Uracs strength significantly?This is why I don't like to give advice over the net. After you tellsomeone how to do something (they ask), they refuse to trust youradvice. In effect, they make light of hard-won or developed knowlege orthey suggest that one doesn't know what he's talking about eventhoughthey've never tried the process. They want knowlege on the cheap, butthey have no respect for it.Disgruntledly,John Zimny from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Nov 23 22:41:34 1997 XAA01908 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:40:46 Subject: Re: NS Backening Agent ----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: NS Backening AgentDate: Sunday, November 23, 1997 4:47 PM In a message dated 11/23/97 6:03:16 AM, you wrote: 500 degrees F for a longer period of time? >> Hi Jorge500 degrees might just be enough, but I'm not sure. Try it and let meknow.Maybe a self cleaning cycle would work. Yes, the Perfection all stainlessguides will respond to this treatment, but not the chrome plated ones. Idon't know where to send you for a vendor. Maybe a ceramic kiln can berun inthe temperature range.I doubt I will make the Ontario meeting, as I am going to Corbett lake intheSpring. I'll try to send up a spiral rod for the guys to play with,however. Hi, Tom. Sorry to hear that you cannot make the Grand River Gathering, butan example of your rod is welcome, Who do you think might be comingfromyour general area? Regards, Ted. from teekay35@interlynx.net Sun Nov 23 22:42:24 1997 XAA01946 for ; Sun, 23 Nov 1997 23:41:37 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? ----------From: Ted Knott . . .teekay35@interlynx.net Subject: Re: How Many Rods?Date: Sunday, November 23, 1997 5:13 PM In a message dated 11/23/97 9:43:20 AM, you wrote: ---------- From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: How Many Rods? Date: Friday, November 21, 1997 8:56 AM I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, and also to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakerslistserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made? over 50> How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored? Don't knowexactly,over 50 at least. > probably over 50 How many years have you been working with bamboo rods? 20+restoring,15 > building around 22 years What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary? PayneModel 98 Either a spiral version of the Garrison 202E, or one of Bill Fink'srecent 5strips As for me, I've been involved with bamboo rods for approximately three years. I am not a rodmaker currently so I have made zero rods. I have restored or refinished 46 rods and have 5 in progress. My favorite flyrod is an A.J. Thramer 7' 4 wt. Mac mcdowellc@lanecc.edu from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Nov 23 22:50:22 1997 Subject: Re: Para-15 At 17:07 23/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Don-Is it winter up there yet?Brian Brian, Well - kinda!!! We have permanent snow behind the house in the shade but Iwas fishing today with a cane pole and landed 10 browns and 2 brooks.Didn't see any rises today, but did last week. Landed them all on brassheaded microbuggers c/w yarn indicator. Am planning cane so the weatherbetter get worse - mind you - about 5 winters ago, I hardly missed aweekend - there is a spring creek about 25 minutes away thats open in thetop 2 1/2 miles all winter. Have caught fish there on New Years Day. Howabout your way - winter yet? Don from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 23 22:59:46 1997 Mon, 24 Nov 1997 12:59:38 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Para-15 On Sun, 23 Nov 1997, Don Andersen wrote: At 17:07 23/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Don-Is it winter up there yet?Brian Brian, Well - kinda!!! We have permanent snow behind the house in the shade butIwas fishing today with a cane pole and landed 10 browns and 2 brooks.Didn't see any rises today, but did last week. Landed them all on brassheaded microbuggers c/w yarn indicator. Am planning cane so theweatherbetter get worse - mind you - about 5 winters ago, I hardly missed aweekend - there is a spring creek about 25 minutes away thats open inthetop 2 1/2 miles all winter. Have caught fish there on New Years Day. Howabout your way - winter yet? Don Give me a break! Permanent snow! 10 Browns and a couple of Brook! I'm 2,000 miles from even transient snow and looking down the barrel of another long hot summer. You have are a cruel man! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Sun Nov 23 23:00:17 1997 Subject: Re: George Mauer Jon Lintvet wrote: Does anyone know where George got the milling machine he had atRoscoe? I would like to know how much it ran and to see anotherpicture of it. John, Are you wanting to build a mill? Paul from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Sun Nov 23 23:13:14 1997 Subject: Re: Urac confusion Thomas Penrose, I ran into the same problem with the large junk in the powder creatingsmall gaps / glue-lines. These lines would really show up black, if youuse Man-O- War spar varnish. What I did to stop this problem was to use a mortar and pestle to grindup the powder. Use a clean container to put the ground stuff into.When you are done, all of it will ground. Then clean out the originalcontainer. Sift out all of the large pieces using a fine strainer(wire). these large pieces re-grind, and re-sift. Whatever won't grinddown goes in the trash. Then seal up the container, and only open it when you are ready tomeasure it out. Never leave it open because other junk can get into it. Paul from penr0295@uidaho.edu Mon Nov 24 00:03:15 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id WAA00230 for ; doing -bs Subject: Sorry John John, you are quite right and I am very sorry to have made it seem that Iwas not trusting of your research into this topic. I have to admit that Iwill sometimes let my own curiousity begin to get the better of me, to apoint of making issues more complicated than they actually are. Prior toyour post I was about to send you an apology for this, having realizedthat there was no cause for my original doubt. I might add that I hadmade the unfortunate assumption that the information you had given mewasmore the result of your overall knowledge of the chemical properties ofglues, rather than it being something that you had done considerableexperimentation with yourself. Had I not blundered in this respect, Iwould have just asked you about any additional questions that I had,rather than asking the list. Again, I was making the whole issue intosomething more complex than it was. I would have just asked you aboutanyof this, but rather stupidly decided not to at risk of making a pest ofmyself, only to find that by not doing so I made myself an even biggerpain in your neck. I am very sorry, but meant no slight. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Nov 24 00:42:22 1997 Subject: Re: Para-15 Don-Weather here in western Michigan, (where God would live if He couldafford the taxes)has been real . . . . screwed up, for lack of a betterdescriptor. Summer was beautiful after a very late spring. Didn't seeHexies real good until nearly July, and all hatches sort of started andstopped as the mercury did sort of a sine wave dance.Had a big Ice storm three weeks ago with trees broken-up, power out tothousands, etc. Since I run the local parks department (includes allthe street trees, about 15,000) we were running for a week. I even goton the Carharts and helped cut trees off of the roads. I enjoy that,but the paperwork really piles up!Fishing is over unless you want to go after steelhead or dredge withnymphs (might just as well use bait!!) [| ;^)Last of the leaves just fell this weekend, spent saturday appeasing theneighbors. Cleaned and set up equipment to finish the PH Young Para 14I'm STILL working on. Went up to Waynes last night for some pointers.(Its so good to see someone who does top drawer work who's shop is evenmore cluttered than mine!) I knew that winter was here when I drove upand saw the black plastic on his AuSable River Boats. Well, now maybe I'll get something done. Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 24 01:23:56 1997 Subject: Re: Urac confusion In a message dated 97-11-24 00:43:05 EST, you write: They want knowlege on the cheap, but they have no respect for it.Disgruntledly,John Zimny Hey John!I have the utmost respect of your knowledge on glues. Why elsewould I steer people your way when they ask about glues? I forone appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge. Darryl Hayashida from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Nov 24 03:33:31 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? In a message dated 97-11-21 23:50:07 EST, you write: Davy Riggs from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Nov 24 07:03:13 1997 Subject: Questions to the List As a complete rookie and novice rod builder I hope those of you who areknowledgable enough to have relevant questions will keep asking thelist. I read these with a consuming interest and read the answers with myprinter at the ready. Please keep it coming. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Nov 24 07:07:53 1997 Mon, 24 Nov 1997 21:07:35 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Urac confusion This is as good a time as any to again make a mention of thanks to all those who give advise on this list enabling a bumbly like me to read a book, ask some questions and make useful rods without all the drama you've had to go through. And, if I may offer some advise to those still new to the craft, take the advise given and try it. If it dosn't work for you try something else but you'll get experience along the way and you can't expect to do good work by just asking and thinking. There comes a time you roll up your sleeves and try it, your fisrt rod wont be as good as the second etc etc etc so don't agonise so much over what with experience becomes in many cases very minor details. Whoops, I kinda got up on my soap box again. Tony On Mon, 24 Nov 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-11-24 00:43:05 EST, you write: They want knowlege on the cheap, but they have no respect for it.Disgruntledly,John Zimny Hey John!I have the utmost respect of your knowledge on glues. Why elsewould I steer people your way when they ask about glues? I forone appreciate your willingness to share your knowledge. Darryl Hayashida /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Nov 24 08:20:41 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Para-15 Don Andersen wrote: At 17:07 23/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Don-Is it winter up there yet?Brian Brian, Well - kinda!!! We have permanent snow behind the house in the shade butIwas fishing today with a cane pole and landed 10 browns and 2 brooks.Didn't see any rises today, but did last week. Landed them all on brassheaded microbuggers c/w yarn indicator. Am planning cane so theweatherbetter get worse - mind you - about 5 winters ago, I hardly missed aweekend - there is a spring creek about 25 minutes away thats open inthetop 2 1/2 miles all winter. Have caught fish there on New Years Day. Howabout your way - winter yet? Don Just thought I'd let y'all know that down in Louisiana it was about 45degrees when I got up this morning, with a light fog. The weathermansays the high should be around 70 degrees, and that's our forecast forthe week.The only problem is, I'm 4 hours from the nearest trout stream! Harry Boyd from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Nov 24 08:58:52 1997 Subject: Sir Darryl's Rods All, Attempt # 2 (Somehow I got dropped from the list over the weekend) I had the pleasure of meeting Darryl at Bob Marriott's Fly Fishing Fairthis past saturday and getting to see a couple of his rods - verybeautiful work. I've got to say that his gluelines and overall finishwork was of top quality. (I guess I should order one before he readsthis ) Also, in case someone wishes to question my rod judging judgement - sendalong one of your own rods and I'll judge it too. Don Burns PS - BM's show seemed to be drawing a smaller crowd this year - is therea market downturn or am I just getting used to the show? from bokstrom@axionet.com Mon Nov 24 10:27:46 1997 Subject: New magazine - final edition My goodness! How one gets hung, drawn and quartered for suggesting thateverything written about bamboo is not necessarily true. Tony -- if you knew me you would realize I'm the last person to advocate"only one way" to build a rod. At our rod builder's meetings (of which I'mproud to say Don Andersen and I started the very first), discussions ofalternate methods were encouraged. I'm the guy who upset all the one-waytypes by advocating soaking before node straightening, and who doesn'tsubscribe to the mystique of stress curves so developed a rodmodificationmethod that is simpler. Next April at Corbett Lake I'll demonstrate mysplitting method, quite different from Mr. Garrison's. If anything, some of my critics are the one-way builders. But I admire you John Bokstrom from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Nov 24 12:07:59 1997 Subject: Re: Urac confusion Tony Young wrote: This is as good a time as any to again make a mention of thanks to allthose who give advise on this list enabling a bumbly like me to read abook, ask some questions and make useful rods without all the dramayou've had to go through.And, if I may offer some advise to those still new to the craft, take theadvise given and try it. If it dosn't work for you try something else butyou'll get experience along the way and you can't expect to do good workbyjust asking and thinking.There comes a time you roll up your sleeves and try it, your fisrt rodwont be as good as the second etc etc etc so don't agonise so much overwhat with experience becomes in many cases very minor details.Whoops, I kinda got up on my soap box again. Tony On Mon, 24 Nov 1997 SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Tony I wish I were as articulate. Ralph from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Nov 24 17:11:16 1997 Subject: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) In a message dated 97-11-24 09:59:33 EST, you write: BM's show seemed to be drawing a smaller crowd this year - is therea market downturn or am I just getting used to the show? There did seem to be less people this year, and very little related tobamboo rods. People have told me there is a renewed interest inbamboo rods, but I haven't seen it. Darryl Hayashida from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Nov 24 17:52:55 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? One more comment on the WayneCatt 6-3 revision which didn't make itinto myprevious communication: thanks, Wayne! /:-) > from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Nov 24 20:31:02 1997 Subject: the list How do I get back on the list? I have not received a posting in a week ortwo. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Nov 24 21:21:24 1997 Subject: Re: Para-17 Between AOL and myself I may be a bit confussed - the RE - states Para17- earlier there was a thread for the Para 15. - Which would make a goodbassrod - The Para 17 is a bit beyond that and has been used on steelhead andsalmon. Tip - .0935 - .10610 - .12115 - .13920 - .16325 - .18630 - .20235 - .21740 - .22745 - .24050 - .25655 - .27060 - .27265 - .27970 - .29075 - .30380 - .31385 - .32290 - .33095 - .330100 - .330102 - .330 from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Nov 24 23:15:41 1997 Subject: Re: Nyatex times Forgive me - I finally realized that I was leaving out some explainationconcerning the nyatex glue. Most epoxy glues will come to full cure at normal room temperaturesandconditions - however certain epoxies benefit from post curing or thermalsetting. This added element of heat does two thing to improve thepreformanceof the glue. The first is to temper the glue or raise its HDT (HeatDeflection Temperature). With the Nyatex the normal (hang until itcures)HDTis about 126 degrees which is about the same as URAC. But with the postcuring of 3 hours at 235 degrees the HDT is raised to 192 degrees.A second benefit is that the post curing cross links the epoxy molecules-Remember as a kid in science class you would spread iron filing on a paperand then pass a magnet under the paper - the iron filings would go from adisordered array to a polorized array. This is similar to the crosslinkingofthe complex chains present in the epoxy. Heat makes these molecules alignandconsequently gives the glue greater structural properties. At 16 hour airdryand post cure at 3 hours at 235 degrees these factors increase by about 25percent. (8030 psi tensile strength to 11000 psi. There was extensive labtesting in all this.The above are some of the tangable benefits - for me the added elementofheat treating meant that I could work at a less interupted pace on thesections. Gluing at the end of the day I could return home and heat treat asI ate and dealt with lifes matters - then return to my cluttered basementtomake rods in the later evening.At 16 hours the glue is almost tack free but many hours away from fullcuring in an open enviroment. With reasonable handling the binding threadcanbe removed and the section rebound without incident. As heat is added theglue apparently takes a step backwards before it advances in curing. Givensome time I intend to check with my glue mentors at Dow and with Bill atNyatex. The outcome of this trial is that one of the big drawbacks - that offiling or sanding the binding string from the section is no longer requiredbut yet the added benefits to the epoxy are seen. Hopefully this fills in theblanks that I had left out in eariler post and gives a better explaination ofwhy we do what we do. WayneIn the lab the glue maximized at 10 hours air drying and ran from thereto around 24 hours - beyond this time the benefits of post curing startedtofall off - there were several temperatures tried as well - the 235 wasprefered because it also assures that any returned moisture is driven out. from sats@gte.net Tue Nov 25 06:04:22 1997 Subject: Re: Urac confusion Tony Young wrote:Theglue lines I have ended up with are of consistent thickness and arequitefine in appearance, but hardly "invisible" if one looks for them upclose. The main reason I gave up using URAC 185 was the tendency to givethick glue lines. ... wehave simply got to stop him looking at every glue line with a 10xmaginifier. He's going to drive himself crazy with the "flaw" sickness. The object is not to make your first rod perfect, but to make each rodbetterthen the one before it... Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Tue Nov 25 06:04:52 1997 Subject: Re: Tonka Prince If you're lucky? How you be any luckier than wife buys for you nice fishpole? :-o D Riggs Actually she was replacing a two piece rod that UPS delivered in 4 pieces!! It was the first Bamboo rod I'd purchased and was in beautiful shape. Idon'tknow how it would have cast. I was so down for the next two weeks thatshearranged with Dick Spurr to replace it with the next closet thing in hisinventory -- the Queen. She paid the difference and the shipping. Gotta love her for it.lIf she ever takes up the sport I'll have to get her a good rod. (who knows, maybe one from the list. I figure I'll be able to save up forone Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Tue Nov 25 06:04:57 1997 Subject: Re: How Many Rods? I would like to ask a few questions mainly for my own curiousity, andalso to get an idea of the interests and background of the Rodmakers listserv members. Please respond to the list if you wish to. How many bamboo rods have you made?None How many rods have I rebuilt?4.5 How many bamboo rods have you refinished or restored?None How many years have you been working with bamboo rods?2 What is your favorite rod? It may be classic or contemporary?I like em all at different times. I have a VERY fast 6 1/2 5wt that I needtoslow down, I've been using lately. I carried a 9ft 7wt to Oregon with methissummer. In between I caught a mess of bluegill with an H-I 7'9" TonkaQueen. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Nov 25 07:00:35 1997 Subject: Demarest Communique I am totally bummed out. Just received a letter from Charles DemarestCo. stating that the cane I thought I was going to be receiving at theend of this month will not likely be here before January! Does this happen frequently? I thought if I got the cane in Novemberthat I might have a fishable rod by next spring. Color me disappointed! Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Nov 25 07:32:37 1997 Subject: Test test from bokstrom@axionet.com Tue Nov 25 09:38:26 1997 Subject: Subscribe rodmakers John Bokstrom from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Nov 25 11:59:15 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: test Have I been disconnected again? from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Nov 25 12:08:40 1997 NAA29381 for ; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 13:07:24 - Subject: Dave Reid, Canadian Rodmaker Dave Reid, rodmaker from Meaford, Ontario, passed away in mid-November,atthe age of 88. I first met Dave at an Izaak Walton Fly Fishing Forum back in the late70's. I was new to rod building and Dave had a large local following forhis rods. This was about the same time as publication of the Garrisonbookand both of us would discuss the ideas in it and share our experiences. We developed a friendship based on our mutual interest in bamboo, and Iwould visit him in Meaford once or twice a year.Dave planed all his rods on one of the Herter forms and made both 5 and 6strip rods.Just two days after I learned of Dave's death, a friend from our local flyfishing club called me to ask "Have you ever heard of a guy named Reid? I've got a chance to buy one of his rods." The rod turned out to be a 7'6" five-sided, two peice, one of Dave's fovourites! from nicksco@fia.net Tue Nov 25 12:50:44 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA15377 for Subject: list i think somehow i got bumped off the list! how do i get back on?thanks C. O. Nicks from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Nov 25 12:57:13 1997 Subject: Kicked-off again or is it that the list is broke? Test - No mail for a day. DGB from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Nov 25 13:46:11 1997 Subject: test? Hi -no messages for a couple of days. Did I get bumped from the list?Ralph from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Nov 25 15:51:58 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Second Test Is the list server down? I haven't received a message in 36 hours... from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 25 16:51:35 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Fw: New Magazine Brian, T0ny, et al,Right on-my way or the highway-;-)Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 25 16:51:36 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Urac confusion Tony,Your soap box is right on. I remember when I had all the tools plus caneand was too chicken to get started, then I saw Garrison's tape and watchedhim split and thought "H--- ,I can do that! I've been going downhill eversince and enjoying every minute of itHank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Nov 25 16:51:38 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Urac confusion John,There's been some young fellow wandering around the fishing shows(particularly last year) examining every glue line with a magnifier- nexttimeI see him i'll ask how many he's built.Hank. from nicksco@fia.net Tue Nov 25 17:35:46 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10797 for Subject: thank you It seems to me that there has been a lot of misunder standings on thelist as of lately. I am a very newcomer to the list, I am one step belowa starting rod builder. I subscribed to the list to gather info. on rodbuilding and refinishing. I am collecting tools and info. To me the listand Tony Youngs web site have been an invaluable tool in my quest.Thanks C. O. Nicks from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Nov 25 18:21:58 1997 Wed, 26 Nov 1997 08:21:48 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Urac confusion On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Tony,Your soap box is right on. I remember when I had all the tools pluscaneand was too chicken to get started, then I saw Garrison's tape andwatchedhim split and thought "H--- ,I can do that! I've been going downhill eversince and enjoying every minute of itHank. :-)) It's a slide you can't control. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Nov 25 19:55:35 1997 Subject: Demarest communique Hi everyone, I wanted to start this message by saying my ISP was down for a coupledays so I didn't receive any messages. I also don't know if what I sentwas received, therefore this might be redundant. I got a message from Demarest Co. a couple of days ago that the canethat I thought would be arriving any time won't be coming until January.I am very disappointed. I thought I might have a fishable rod by nextspring. Does this type of thing happen frequently with cane orders? If I getcane in early January will I be able to work it right away or do I haveto let it age to dry out some? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from stpete@netten.net Tue Nov 25 19:59:08 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA05304 for; Tue, 25 Nov 1997 20:04:17 -0600 Subject: Re: Urac confusion FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Tony,Your soap box is right on. I remember when I had all the tools pluscaneand was too chicken to get started, then I saw Garrison's tape andwatchedhim split and thought "H--- ,I can do that! I've been going downhill eversince and enjoying every minute of itHank. OK, Young, novice rod enthusiast has all the books, tools, made his forms,ready to split cane (which someone generously offered me, I might add,in return for passing that favor/torch along).... now, you say there's atape out there somewhere with Garrison building a rod? Is thisavailable anywhere? Any other tapes available? Mr. Wayne C., are youimmortalized on magnetic media which is available somewhere? I've beencaught up in this and I am definitely in the frying pan - ready to jumpinto the fire - just would like to know how hot it gets first! Rick (stpete@netten.net) from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Nov 25 20:59:03 1997 Subject: Re: Urac confusion Yes, Wayne has a video out. I believe its going to be shown in Cannesthis next year. Emotionally gripping, a real human drama, I wasriveted!!! :-o I think Cabela's sells it. Brian from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Nov 25 21:20:42 1997 Wed, 26 Nov 1997 11:20:34 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: thank you On Tue, 25 Nov 1997, C. O. Nicks wrote: It seems to me that there has been a lot of misunder standings on thelist as of lately. I am a very newcomer to the list, I am one step belowa starting rod builder. I subscribed to the list to gather info. on rodbuilding and refinishing. I am collecting tools and info. To me the listand Tony Youngs web site have been an invaluable tool in my quest.Thanks C. O. Nicks It's nice to see your kind words and I thank you but seeing my name associated here makes me duty bound to state that my home page isnothing more than a distialtion of what I've read on this list and in a couple of books that works for me along with a bit of "doing it my way", some of which suprising works. Make use of it by all means but it's best to do it your way. The hoby will be more rewarding for you if you do. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Nov 25 23:39:06 1997 Subject: Re:Winter norther vs summer southern At 12:59 24/11/97 +0800, you wrote:On Sun, 23 Nov 1997, Don Andersen wrote: At 17:07 23/11/97 -0500, you wrote:Don-Is it winter up there yet?Brian Brian, Well - kinda!!! We have permanent snow behind the house in the shadebut Iwas fishing today with a cane pole and landed 10 browns and 2 brooks.Didn't see any rises today, but did last week. Landed them all on brassheaded microbuggers c/w yarn indicator. Am planning cane so theweatherbetter get worse - mind you - about 5 winters ago, I hardly missed aweekend - there is a spring creek about 25 minutes away thats open inthetop 2 1/2 miles all winter. Have caught fish there on New Years Day.Howabout your way - winter yet? Don Give me a break! Permanent snow! 10 Browns and a couple of Brook! I'm 2,000 miles from even transient snow and looking down the barrel of another long hot summer. You have are a cruel man! Tony Tony, I'll trade you for some -40 weather for some bikini clad lasses about anytime. regards, Don /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Wed Nov 26 04:45:03 1997 lincoln.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id FAA22231 for; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 05:44:56 -0500 last message Subject: Re: New magazine - final edition ----------My goodness! How one gets hung, drawn and quartered for suggesting thateverything written about bamboo is not necessarily true. Tony -- if you knew me you would realize I'm the last person to advocate"only one way" to build a rod. At our rod builder's meetings (of which I'mproud to say Don Andersen and I started the very first), discussions ofalternate methods were encouraged. I'm the guy who upset all the one-waytypes by advocating soaking before node straightening, and who doesn'tsubscribe to the mystique of stress curves so developed a rodmodificationmethod that is simpler. Next April at Corbett Lake I'll demonstrate mysplitting method, quite different from Mr. Garrison's. If anything, some of my critics are the one-way builders. But I admireyou John Bokstrom John, I'm new to the list but I've done my share ofreading and talking with rodmakers over the years. I think that it can beconfusing sorting out the bull from the good advice. There are certainlymany ways to skin a cat and in the end I think that you try what makessense to you. Experience is a good teacher but I'm always looking for abetter way. I'd like to hear more about your technique for nodestraightening. As for the Garrison technique for splitting I think it's method which uses a jack knife to start the split, a vise and my twohands.I enjoy reading from the list but haven't felt that I have the experiencecompared to rodmakers like yourself to contribute much at this time. I'llfill out the "How many rods" query if anyone is interested. Sean Moran P.S. Used your rod modification method -- Ithink it makes sense and works well. from bokstrom@axionet.com Wed Nov 26 07:59:14 1997 Subject: Re: Fw: New Magazine ----------From: Fallcreek9@aol.com Subject: Re: Fw: New MagazineDate: Sunday, November 23, 1997 3:00 PM In a message dated 97-11-23 05:20:31 EST, you write: making a rod, guess my Aussie humour didn't come across too well. Tony Tony: I thought it was spot on.RTyree Your check will be returned. I don't do business with cheap-shot artists.John from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Nov 26 08:58:26 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Urac confusion there's a Garrison tape? How does someone go about getting it? ----------From: Tony Young[SMTP:tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au] Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 1997 4:21 PM Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Urac confusion On Tue, 25 Nov 1997 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Tony,Your soap box is right on. I remember when I had all the toolsplus caneand was too chicken to get started, then I saw Garrison's tape andwatchedhim split and thought "H--- ,I can do that! I've been going downhilleversince and enjoying every minute of itHank. :-)) It's a slide you can't control. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Nov 26 15:55:25 1997 Subject: Re: Urac confusion Rick -About 3 1/2 hours worth - or stop by some time and I'll share theoriginal35 hours of uncut - bring popcorn. At you favorite fly fishing book store. Wayne from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Wed Nov 26 20:16:05 1997 Subject: Re: Garrison Tape stpete wrote: Young, novice rod enthusiast has all the books, tools, made his forms, ready to split cane (which someone generously offered me, I might add, in return for passing that favor/torch along).... now, you say there'satape out there somewhere with Garrison building a rod? Is thisavailable anywhere? Any other tapes available? Mr. Wayne C., are you immortalized on magnetic media which is available somewhere? I'vebeencaught up in this and I am definitely in the frying pan - ready tojumpinto the fire - just would like to know how hot it gets first! Rick (stpete@netten.net) Rick Yes there is a VHS Garrison Tape. It is called Creating the GarrisonFly Rod, and is copyright in 1973 by the Anglers' Club of New York, anddistributed by Carl Kriegeskotte, P.O. Box 692 Mt. Kisco, NY 10549. I have the tape, and the quality is somewhat to be desired. I hope thissends you in the right direction. Paul from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Nov 26 22:30:50 1997 Subject: Twinkle Trout !! Last janurary I took a break from the long drive from Casnovia toSomerset at the rest stop in Snowshoe, PA. It was 2 am and we still hadseveral hours to go to our destination. As a keep awake, the copilot, Lyndiand I penned the following. Since then there has been a video made in MTVstyle for a class at school. Twinkle Trout Twinkle twinkle, little troutWhy don't you come on out? Tucked beneath the brush pile deepWhy don't you come take a leap? Out upon my leader fineSets a fly that cost a buck 'O' nine As I cast and drift it byYou won't even budge from your lie Twinkle twinkle, little troutWhat will it take to move you out? Cast as I may, with all my mightI just can't seem to get the fly to land right The line speed is high, and the loop is tightYou don't suppose it's in the graphite? Twinkle twinkle, little troutYou're a smart one, without a doubt Fish as I may, Fish as I mightThis is truely the end of the ol' graphite When I come next to visit youIt will be nothing less than the best of bamboo Twinkle twinkle little troutA word to the wise "Do look out" When I come next to visit youI will be nothing less that a PARKER Bamboo Have a good Thanksgiving - Jon & Carole from stpete@netten.net Wed Nov 26 23:02:49 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA18908 for; Wed, 26 Nov 1997 23:08:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Garrison Tape - Thanks & Happy Thanksgiving to all! Paul Whitely wrote: stpete wrote: Young, novice rod enthusiast has all the books, tools, made his forms, ready to split cane (which someone generously offered me, I might add, in return for passing that favor/torch along).... now, you say there'satape out there somewhere with Garrison building a rod? Is thisavailable anywhere? Any other tapes available? Mr. Wayne C., are you immortalized on magnetic media which is available somewhere? I'vebeencaught up in this and I am definitely in the frying pan - ready tojumpinto the fire - just would like to know how hot it gets first! Rick (stpete@netten.net) Rick Yes there is a VHS Garrison Tape. It is called Creating the GarrisonFly Rod, and is copyright in 1973 by the Anglers' Club of New York, anddistributed by Carl Kriegeskotte, P.O. Box 692 Mt. Kisco, NY 10549. I have the tape, and the quality is somewhat to be desired. I hope thissends you in the right direction. Paul Thanks, Paul! ... and thanks and Happy Thanksgiving to ALL on the list.You guys (and gals?) have been super about sharing information won fromyou hard work. from your triumphant discoveries to your exasperatingfailures, you seek to keep this craft alive and to raise it to higherlevels. I am sure the great craftsmen and innovators of days gone byare smiling from 'somewhere' at the handiwork coming off the benches andworkshops of you few. Rick from SealRite@aol.com Thu Nov 27 06:35:55 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine - final edition there are many ways to skin a cat - the only thing that matters is that thecat gets skinned from sats@gte.net Thu Nov 27 10:02:16 1997 Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) There did seem to be less people this year, and very little related tobamboo rods. People have told me there is a renewed interest inbamboo rods, but I haven't seen it. I believe there is, thanks to that Colorado guy, old what's his name.It's kinda' like "the movie" only it's "the book." I think what you're seeing is a natural progression, people joined thesport,some left some stayed. Of those who stayed, some are moving to Bamboobecausethey either like the "feel" of a bamboo rod, or because of Bamboo's "snobappeal." Either way, you wouldn't see much interest from the generalfishingpublic. Most of them will trek down to Sport's Authority or Wal-Mart andbuyONE outfit. What you're seeing is the specialized, specialized buyer. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from rmoon@dns.ida.net Thu Nov 27 12:02:03 1997 Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: There did seem to be less people this year, and very little related tobamboo rods. People have told me there is a renewed interest inbamboo rods, but I haven't seen it. I believe there is, thanks to that Colorado guy, old what's his name.It's kinda' like "the movie" only it's "the book." I think what you're seeing is a natural progression, people joined thesport,some left some stayed. Of those who stayed, some are moving toBamboo becausethey either like the "feel" of a bamboo rod, or because of Bamboo's "snobappeal." Either way, you wouldn't see much interest from the generalfishingpublic. Most of them will trek down to Sport's Authority or Wal-Martand buyONE outfit. What you're seeing is the specialized, specialized buyer. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net TerryI guess there is something like "snob appeal", but don't you think thatthere isanother classification of those who truly love bamboo for a variety ofreasonsother than instant gratification? I am thnking not only of rod makers, butthoseinterested in the history of bamboo rods, those whose only interest is intheartistry and aesthetics of bamboo, those who ( and I guess you mentionedthis) justlike the experiences associated with using bamboo I think snobbery is a miniscule factor Ralph Moon from rcurry@jlc.net Thu Nov 27 14:22:25 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id PAA07417 for Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) Ralph W Moon wrote:TerryI guess there is something like "snob appeal", but don't you think thatthere isanother classification of those who truly love bamboo for a variety ofreasonsother than instant gratification? I am thnking not only of rod makers,but thoseinterested in the history of bamboo rods, those whose only interest is intheartistry and aesthetics of bamboo, those who ( and I guess you mentionedthis) justlike the experiences associated with using bamboo I think snobbery is a miniscule factor Ralph Moon Ralph,I agree with your premise. As to snobbery, that is usually shortlived,IMO. After a short time using cane, most people would simply take theircane rod(s) for granted as the most pleasing (or not) tool for fishing.Then they might enter a collecting phase (I never *intended* to, but itseems to have happened) and begin exploring the history, art,constuction, etc.Further, cane cannot assume more "snob value" than some of thegraphiterods. You can hear talk on the net, and elsewhere, of fly fishersboasting(?) of the number of Sages they own. Whereas, if you toldsomeone that you had "a mint Hawes" they wouldn't know what you meant.(If anyone out there has a mint Hawes and doesn't know what that means,please send it to me, I'll pay postage.)Best regards,Reed from rmoon@dns.ida.net Thu Nov 27 14:31:30 1997 Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) Reed F. Curry wrote: Ralph W Moon wrote:TerryI guess there is something like "snob appeal", but don't you think thatthere isanother classification of those who truly love bamboo for a variety ofreasonsother than instant gratification? I am thnking not only of rod makers,but thoseinterested in the history of bamboo rods, those whose only interest isin theartistry and aesthetics of bamboo, those who ( and I guess youmentioned this) justlike the experiences associated with using bamboo I think snobbery is a miniscule factor Ralph Moon Ralph,I agree with your premise. As to snobbery, that is usuallyshortlived,IMO. After a short time using cane, most people would simply take theircane rod(s) for granted as the most pleasing (or not) tool for fishing.Then they might enter a collecting phase (I never *intended* to, but itseems to have happened) and begin exploring the history, art,constuction, etc.Further, cane cannot assume more "snob value" than some of thegraphiterods. You can hear talk on the net, and elsewhere, of fly fishersboasting(?) of the number of Sages they own. Whereas, if you toldsomeone that you had "a mint Hawes" they wouldn't know what youmeant.(If anyone out there has a mint Hawes and doesn't know what that means,please send it to me, I'll pay postage.)Best regards,Reed Reed I'll not only pay the postage, but give him five bucks for his trouble. Thanks Ralph from nicksco@fia.net Thu Nov 27 15:53:43 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA27215 for Subject: Milling Cane This might be a dumb question but, if you never ask, you will neverknow. Has anyone ever tried to mill cane rather than plane it? Dremelmakes a very nice little router att. for their tool. It would not bevery hard to make a wide planing form with a fence to guide the tool. Ihave very bad shoulders, and upper arm strength due to a accident. Ifyou milled it and then used a scraper it would save a lot of labor, no?I don't know if I can make a rod yet, but I can dream up some wild from mrj@seanet.com Thu Nov 27 16:07:09 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA09787 for Subject: Re: Milling Cane I am not going to elaborate very much on this but I will say that in answerto your question, Yes, there are a lot of people milling and there are a lotof milling machines (types) out there. In regards to requiring a lot ofupper arm strength, I think that the sharper you keep your plane, the lessstrength you need. I have built 8 rods to date planing all, and I find thatthe more rods I build, the weaker and more out of shape I can get and stilldo a good (in fact better) job. I know that I use far less effort now thenwhen I built my first rod. A lot of this is just keeping my plane bladesharper than I did when I built my first rod.-----Original Message----- Subject: Milling Cane This might be a dumb question but, if you never ask, you will neverknow. Has anyone ever tried to mill cane rather than plane it? Dremelmakes a very nice little router att. for their tool. It would not bevery hard to make a wide planing form with a fence to guide the tool. Ihave very bad shoulders, and upper arm strength due to a accident. Ifyou milled it and then used a scraper it would save a lot of labor, no?I don't know if I can make a rod yet, but I can dream up some wild from maiello@yorku.ca Thu Nov 27 16:16:49 1997 (l/ktE/o2+EIokljy+oFFjbRATF7LYXcS@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA23127 for ; Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) Perhaps some of the new FFishers which were introduced to the art byHollywood have forgotten about it already.What a shame. (A small amount of sarcasm intented here!) Mauro from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Nov 27 19:09:57 1997 Subject: Sweet Plane Music To The List.If you want to hear really sweet plane music try planing a nodelessspline. Bill from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Thu Nov 27 19:50:40 1997 lincoln.midcoast.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA18626 for; Thu, 27 Nov 1997 20:50:28 -0500 Subject: test test from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Nov 27 20:36:36 1997 Fri, 28 Nov 1997 10:35:46 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Sweet Plane Music On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Bill Fink wrote: To The List.If you want to hear really sweet plane music try planing a nodelessspline. Bill I'll second that. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Thu Nov 27 20:56:34 1997 Subject: Re: Milling Cane E538CD60D0C3BE3F419719C6" --------------E538CD60D0C3BE3F419719C6 C. O. Nicks wrote: This might be a dumb question but, if you never ask, you will neverknow. Has anyone ever tried to mill cane rather than plane it? Dremelmakes a very nice little router att. for their tool. It would not bevery hard to make a wide planing form with a fence to guide the tool.Ihave very bad shoulders, and upper arm strength due to a accident. Ifyou milled it and then used a scraper it would save a lot of labor,no?I don't know if I can make a rod yet, but I can dream up some wild C.O. Nicks, I have tried using a power plane, on metal planing forms when I firststarted. It does not work too well. The cut is great, but when you getclose to the taper, or one end, metal (that is from the planing form)flies. I ruined my first set of planing forms trying to "Automate" theprocess. Now if you choose to build using a mill, most use their own design.Currently I am writing a serries of web pages that show (drawing &words) how to build a mill. This mill is not a mill that is just in mymind! I built this mill about 5 years ago, and use it to build rodsthat have been sold internationally. This page is located atttp://www.kaiwan.com/~mrbamboo/Auto/index.html , and if you wouldliketo build it, I will give you more pointers. Paul --------------E538CD60D0C3BE3F419719C6 C. O. Nicks wrote:This might be a dumb question but, if you neverask,you will neverknow. Has anyone ever tried to mill cane rather than plane it? Dremelmakes a very nice little router att. for their tool. It would not bevery hard to make a wide planing form with a fence to guide the tool.Ihave very bad shoulders, and upper arm strength due to a accident.Ifyou milled it and then used a scraper it would save a lot of labor,no?I don't know if I can make a rod yet, but I can dream up some wild cents worth C. O. Nicks I have tried using a power plane, on metal planing forms when I first you get close to the taper, or one end, metal (that is from the planing "Automate"the process. Now if you choose to build using a mill, most use their own Currently I am writing a serries of web pages that show (drawing & ttp://www.kaiwan.com/~mrbamboo/Auto/index.html Paul --------------E538CD60D0C3BE3F419719C6-- from nicksco@fia.net Thu Nov 27 21:18:50 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA02696 for Subject: Re: Milling Cane Paul Whitely wrote: C. O. Nicks wrote: This might be a dumb question but, if you never ask, youwill neverknow. Has anyone ever tried to mill cane rather than planeit? Dremelmakes a very nice little router att. for their tool. Itwould not bevery hard to make a wide planing form with a fence to guidethe tool. Ihave very bad shoulders, and upper arm strength due to aaccident. Ifyou milled it and then used a scraper it would save a lot oflabor, no?I don't know if I can make a rod yet, but I can dream upsome wild Nicks C.O. Nicks, I have tried using a power plane, on metal planing forms when I firststarted. It does not work too well. The cut is great, but when youget close to the taper, or one end, metal (that is from the planingform) flies. I ruined my first set of planing forms trying to"Automate" the process. Now if you choose to build using a mill, most use their own design.Currently I am writing a serries of web pages that show (drawing &words) how to build a mill. This mill is not a mill that is just inmy mind! I built this mill about 5 years ago, and use it to buildrods that have been sold internationally. This page is located atttp://www.kaiwan.com/~mrbamboo/Auto/index.html , and if you wouldliketo build it, I will give you more pointers. Paul Paul I was not thinking of a high production mill. I was thinking aboutsomething that would help someone that does'nt have the strength toplane in the usual way. Thank you for your tips C. O. Nicks from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Nov 27 21:35:20 1997 Subject: Re: Sweet Plane Music At 20:09 27/11/97 -0500, Bill wrote and Tony seconded:To The List.If you want to hear really sweet plane music try planing a nodelessspline. Bill Bill & Tony, One of the things that confound us noded builders is the "grain" of thecane coming off the node @ an angle causing the node to chip. How oftendoes the denoded cane chip at the scarfing point? Or does it? Just wondering, Don [still with my nodes on ] Andersen from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Nov 27 22:06:23 1997 Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) There are many reasons for the rising interest in bamboo fly rods - onethat most overlook is that fact that in the long run they become thecheapest. WHAT - you say!!!Because the sport is visual or high in toy factor - in bowing to peerpressure or from just lack of castability - most plastic fly rods are good isworth about $175 as soon as it walks out of the shop - this is because themultiplier to the shop is between .5 or .4 (50 - 60% discount). In thecourseof 6 years many flyfishers will spend $2000 on fly rods only to retain$700in value.Now with a $1000 INVESTED in a bamboo fly rod - the owner will see aninitial decline in value of $150 - $200 but at the end of a 6 year period theretained value of the rod will be about $1250. So in answer to the fellow that has a pile of Sages in his closet the realquestion is why he has pissed so much money away - put him on the spotbyasking him what they are worth today??? from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Nov 28 01:27:43 1997 Fri, 28 Nov 1997 15:27:12 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Sweet Plane Music On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Don Andersen wrote: At 20:09 27/11/97 -0500, Bill wrote and Tony seconded:To The List.If you want to hear really sweet plane music try planing a nodelessspline. Bill Bill & Tony, One of the things that confound us noded builders is the "grain" of thecane coming off the node @ an angle causing the node to chip. How oftendoes the denoded cane chip at the scarfing point? Or does it? Just wondering,Don [still with my nodes on ] Andersen Never does. The only thing you may get is on occasion when planing the scarfs the enamel may become ragged but that's no problem as when it's all scarfed together and planed and the enamel scraped to the final dimension the scarf looks fine. If you do a neat job the scarf can be hard to detect at all.I'm having difficulty in understanding what you mean by "grain lifting at the node and chipping". What a terrible thing to have to deal with ;-)Just joking. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Fri Nov 28 08:42:05 1997 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 28 Nov 1997 09:41:29 -0500 Subject: Re: Milling Cane C. O. Nicks wrote: This might be a dumb question but, if you never ask, you will neverknow. Has anyone ever tried to mill cane rather than plane it? Dremelmakes a very nice little router att. for their tool. It would not bevery hard to make a wide planing form with a fence to guide the tool. Ihave very bad shoulders, and upper arm strength due to a accident. Ifyou milled it and then used a scraper it would save a lot of labor, no?I don't know if I can make a rod yet, but I can dream up some wild Okay, I have used a low budget/production approach to milling/bevelingcane. My motive was nothing more than I liked to experiment. I havehad good luck by simply building a bed out of MDF and using a trimrouter (Mounted in a horizontal position) to do the planing. It will dothe bulk of the work, but you will still end up going to the planingforms for the final cuts... from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Nov 28 08:55:48 1997 Subject: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper All, I measured the taper of a 7'5" or 7'6" Horrock-Ibbotson "Fairy" modelthat I'm restoring. Vintage is late 1920's - early 1930's based upon theH-I label. There's a few questions in my mind as to how close I am to being correctas to the rod's length and/or proper taper dimensions. The butt is >1/4"longer than the mid/tip and that's without any reelseat. Teh rod havebeen converted into a spinning rod sometime in the past and a longspinning realseat had been grafted over the butt. The fly seat was longgone, but if the reelseat extended beyond the cane the the rod couldhave been originally a 7'6" rod. Tip = 30", mid =30" and the butt = 301/4". (all with ferrules installed) Assembled length, without reelseat, is closer to 7'5". One of the 3 flat-to-flat's was always +/- 0.005" from the other twoalso. (shows some poor workmanship) So I took the average of the three closest measurements?) I'd be interested if someone could provide me with a stress curve asfound on Jerry Foster's page. Don Burns Taper: Here's the average of 3 taper: Tip 0" = 0.063"5" = 0.98"10" = 0.107"15" = 0.122"20" = 0.135"25" = 0.157" Mid 2" = 0.188"5" = 0.203"10" = 0.208"15" = 0.225"20" = 0.235"25" = 0.245"28" = 0.246" Butt 3" = 0.266"5" = 0.269"10" = 0.281"15" = 0.293"20" = 0.306"21" = 0.351"25" = 0.380"30" = 0.380" from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Nov 28 11:45:24 1997 Subject: Re: [3] Sweet Plane Music At 15:27 28/11/97 +0800, you wrote:On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Don Andersen wrote: At 20:09 27/11/97 -0500, Bill wrote and Tony seconded:To The List.If you want to hear really sweet plane music try planing a nodelessspline. Bill Bill & Tony, One of the things that confound us noded builders is the "grain" of thecane coming off the node @ an angle causing the node to chip. How oftendoes the denoded cane chip at the scarfing point? Or does it? Just wondering,Don [still with my nodes on ] Andersen Never does. The only thing you may get is on occasion when planing the scarfs the enamel may become ragged but that's no problem as when it's all scarfed together and planed and the enamel scraped to the final dimension the scarf looks fine. If you do a neat job the scarf can be hard to detect at all.I'm having difficulty in understanding what you mean by "grain lifting at the node and chipping". What a terrible thing to have to deal with ;-)Just joking. Tony, Tis a terrible thing to deal with!! Sometimes you cannot no matter howhardyou try to keep a node from chipping it happens. You can deal with it byreversing the planning direction or restraightening and so forth. Tis apain I agree.But I still got my nodes on.Will try a nodeless rod some day - first I got to figure out this rod thingwith nodes. take care, And I hope removal of your nodes wasn't too painful. Don from mrj@seanet.com Fri Nov 28 12:13:28 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24284 for Subject: Re: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper -----Original Message----- Subject: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper One of the 3 flat-to-flat's was always +/- 0.005" from the other twoalso. (shows some poor workmanship) So I took the average of the three Don, from what I've seen of some of the old rods, if yours is as you say (+ -).005, I would think that is pretty normal especially for a production rod. Ihave seen a lot worse. from mrj@seanet.com Fri Nov 28 12:23:36 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA24534 for Subject: sawing bamboo boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0019_01BCFBE7.C4A07B00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BCFBE7.C4A07B00 I just got hold of a 10" band saw and was very impressed with the kerf, =or lack there of. I'm thinking that since the length of the grain at =best only goes to the next node, I wouldn't really be sacrificing =anything as regards to "following the grain" which is the main reason = I know that when I try to split and get the most out of my cane, =sometimes you just can't control where the split goes no matter how hard=you try. More than once I have wasted a piece trying to squeeze another =piece out. I know, that is what becomes of greed.The saw should eliminate this completely assuming I can cut on a =straight line.Are there any other points that I should take into consideration as to =splitting vs sawing? ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BCFBE7.C4A07B00 I just got hold of a 10" band= very impressed with the kerf, or lack there of. I'm thinking that since = length of the grain at best only goes to the next node, I =wouldn't really be sacrificing anything as regards "following the grain" which is the main reason for splitting = than historical sense.I know that when I try to splitand = out of my cane, sometimes you just can't control where the split goes no = how hard you try. More than once I have wasted a piece trying to squeeze = piece out. I know, that is what becomes of greed.The saw should eliminate this = assuming I can cut on a straight line.Are there any other points that I = into consideration as to splitting vssawing? ------=_NextPart_000_0019_01BCFBE7.C4A07B00-- from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Nov 28 14:09:04 1997 Subject: Re: [3] Sweet Plane Music Don Andersen wrote: At 15:27 28/11/97 +0800, you wrote:On Thu, 27 Nov 1997, Don Andersen wrote: At 20:09 27/11/97 -0500, Bill wrote and Tony seconded:To The List.If you want to hear really sweet plane music try planing a nodelessspline. Bill Bill & Tony, One of the things that confound us noded builders is the "grain" of thecane coming off the node @ an angle causing the node to chip. Howoftendoes the denoded cane chip at the scarfing point? Or does it? Just wondering,Don [still with my nodes on ] Andersen Never does. The only thing you may get is on occasion when planing thescarfs the enamel may become ragged but that's no problem as when it'sall scarfed together and planed and the enamel scraped to the finaldimension the scarf looks fine. If you do a neat job the scarf can behard to detect at all.I'm having difficulty in understanding what you mean by "grain lifting atthe node and chipping". What a terrible thing to have to deal with ;-)Just joking. Tony, Tis a terrible thing to deal with!! Sometimes you cannot no matter howhardyou try to keep a node from chipping it happens. You can deal with it byreversing the planning direction or restraightening and so forth. Tis apain I agree.But I still got my nodes on.Will try a nodeless rod some day - first I got to figure out this rod thingwith nodes. take care, And I hope removal of your nodes wasn't too painful. Don Rest assured - "taint" painful, "tis" a blessing. George from gwr@seanet.com Fri Nov 28 18:40:54 1997 QAA02590 for ; Fri, 28 Nov 1997 16:40:50 Subject: Silk Line Value Hello Gang, I picked up two silk lines this morning and was wondering if theyhave any value. The first line came along with an automatic reel I bought.It is in fairly good condition DT, the finish is a little sticky, but theline itself seems undamaged. This is a very fine, light line, much finerthan the second. The second is a "new in the box" Sunset Arrowhead Taper,30yards, HBG. The finish is sticky and the box looks like it was on a storeshelf for a decade.What are old silk lines worth? Does anyone currently make them andif so what do the new ones run? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks in Advance, Russ Gooding from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Nov 28 18:41:41 1997 Subject: Re: sawing bamboo In a message dated 11/28/97 7:55:07 PM, you wrote: Martin - Don't do it. If you have to lose a strip, better to lose it insplitting. If you saw, you will inevitably have cross grained strips thatyouwill lose in planing, after you have put a lot of time in them. Keep workingon your splitting techniques, it will come in time. from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Nov 28 21:25:27 1997 Subject: Re: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper RO>-----Original Message-----RO>From: flyfisher@cmix.com RO>Date: Friday, November 28, 1997 6:59 AMRO>Subject: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper RO>>One of the 3 flat-to-flat's was always +/- 0.005" from the other twoRO>>also. (shows some poor workmanship) So I took the average of thethreeRO>>for the taper RO>Don,RO>> from what I've seen of some of the old rods, if yours is as you say (+ - )RO>.005, I would think that is pretty normal especially for a productionrod. IRO>have seen a lot worse. What I really should have written was +/- 0.015" (not 0.005"). It seemsone one pair of strips is off. I tried running Hexrod (for the 1st time), but even with a 2DT I wasgetting something like 500,000 force numbers - Help! Also I can't get the graphic software package (Jerry Foster's site) toload on my W95 machine. I'm getting error messages about unable to loadsome DLL files into the Windows sub-directory. Again help! Don B. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Nov 28 23:53:31 1997 Subject: Re: sawing bamboo In a message dated 97-11-28 22:26:26 EST, you write: splitting vs sawing?>> I have some experience with woodworking, and have used band sawsquite extensively in the past. Quite frankly I can split a lot finer and getmore strips from a culm than I would be able to saw with a band saw. I'm not too sure the "grain runout" problem would be much of a problem if you took the time to split the culm first to quarters and try to followthe grain with the saw. The reason I wouldn't use a band saw is that I'm positive I couldn'tget 32 strips from the top half of a culm from sawing as I can from splitting. Two skills in bamboo rodmaking that will serve you well to develop.Being able to split your culms to at least 24 strips, and sharpening your plane blades to a point where they are so sharp it scares you. My advice (for what it's worth) is to develop your splitting skills andskip the band saw. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 29 00:02:07 1997 Subject: Re: Milling Cane In a message dated 97-11-28 09:47:21 EST, you write: Has anyone ever tried to mill cane rather than plane it? Dremelmakes a very nice little router att. for their tool. It would not bevery hard to make a wide planing form with a fence to guide the tool. Ihave very bad shoulders, and upper arm strength due to a accident. Ifyou milled it and then used a scraper it would save a lot of labor, no? Pick up a copy of "The Best of the Planing Form" by Ron Barch.There is an article in there on how to make a milling machineusing a router. Personally, I enjoy the planing from a rough strip to final spline, but if I had to finish a rod quickly or make a lot of them, I would consider using a milling machine for roughing out a spline, butI would always do the final planing by hand. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 29 00:06:33 1997 Subject: Re: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper In a message dated 97-11-28 10:39:38 EST, you write: I'd be interested if someone could provide me with a stress curve asfound on Jerry Foster's page. What kind of graphics fromats can you handle? I think I recallseeing you on AOL as I am, so if you can send me your AOLaddress I can send you a stress curve as an attachment. Darryl Hayashida from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Nov 29 00:09:43 1997 Subject: The Sir D Series The following is a work up of a series of tapers based on the 7' Sir Dfavorite. I have stretched the stress graph to develope a 7' 6" and shortedit to accomodate a 6' 3" after the curves were developed they were ranthrough Hexrod to create dimensions for #2 - #3 - #4 weight rods in both2 &3 piece rods. The stress curves are as follows: 65" action length tip - 452505 - 21195010 - 27175015 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 15915030 - 14725035 - 12692540 - 11040045 - 12130050 - 13490055 - 11727560 - 11687565 - 101050 80" action lengthtip - 452505 - 21195010 - 271750 15 - 21887520 - 17287525 - 16345030 - 15250035 - 14700040 - 14265045 - 12692550 - 11040055 - 12130060 - 13490065 - 11772570 - 11727575 - 11687580 - 101050 To maintain the full character the peaks and valleys were moved totheclosest 5" increment that is why several stress values are the same. 6' 3" #2 tip -.054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .114 .11430 .126 .12835 .143 .14740 .162 .16545 .170 .17250 .176 .17755 .197 .19860 .210 .21265 .233 .23670 .233 .23675 .233 .236 6' 3" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .126 .12630 .139 .14135 .157 .16140 .178 .18245 .186 .18850 .192 .19355 .214 .21660 .228 .23065 .253 .25670 .253 .25675 .253 .256 6' 3" #4 tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .120 .12025 .135 .13530 .149 .15235 .168 .17240 .189 .19445 .198 .20050 .204 .20655 .227 .23060 .241 .24565 .267 .27270 .267 .27275 .267 .272 7' 6" #2 tip .054 .05405 .056 .05610 .066 .06615 .083 .08320 .101 .10125 .113 .11330 .125 .12535 .136 .13840 .147 .15045 .164 .16750 .185 .18755 .192 .19360 .196 .19765 .219 .21970 .232 .23375 .245 .24780 .271 .27385 .271 .27390 .271 .273 7' 6" #3 tip .061 .06105 .063 .06310 .074 .07415 .092 .09220 .112 .11225 .124 .12430 .138 .13835 .150 .15240 .162 .16545 .179 .18350 .202 .20455 .209 .21060 .214 .21565 .237 .23870 .251 .25375 .264 .26780 .291 .29585 .291 .29590 .291 .295 7' 6" #4tip .066 .06605 .068 .06810 .080 .08015 .099 .09920 .119 .11925 .133 .13330 .148 .14835 .160 .16240 .172 .17545 .190 .19550 .214 .21755 .221 .22360 .226 .22765 .251 .25270 .265 .26775 .279 .28180 .307 .31085 .307 .31090 .307 .310 The narrowness between the 2 and 3 piece dimensions reflect some finetuning I have done on the ferrule weights that I am using.What will perhaps shock a few - I have never fished the 7' #4. I madeone,I have lawn cast a couple and I was going to fish it. But as we weresuitingup at the Broomhead Bridge on the N. Branch of the Boardman I set the rodcase on top of my Jimmy. The horror was when the rod case fell off theroof.Falling into pure sand the rod case split in half and took the rod with it.Never use highly burled walnut in a wooden rod case. Ron glued the case -itbroke in two again as I lifted it up. The rod was beyond repair - Ron justshrugged his shoulders - not responsible. from mrj@seanet.com Sat Nov 29 00:57:44 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA08879 for Subject: test ignore boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01BCFC51.1CB4E920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BCFC51.1CB4E920 sadfg ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BCFC51.1CB4E920 sadfg ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01BCFC51.1CB4E920-- from mrj@seanet.com Sat Nov 29 01:22:11 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09274 for Subject: Re: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper .015 IS a bit much I would agree. Re the taper program that you are havingproblems with. Is that the one that is called RodMaker? If it is I have iton my Win 95 machine and it works fine. Could you have those files hiddenunder the views menu? Could that be the problem. I know that when youthrough something out you need to make all files visable in order toremovethem. Maybe it works both ways?-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper RO>-----Original Message-----RO>From: flyfisher@cmix.com RO>Date: Friday, November 28, 1997 6:59 AMRO>Subject: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper RO>>One of the 3 flat-to-flat's was always +/- 0.005" from the other twoRO>>also. (shows some poor workmanship) So I took the average of thethreeRO>>for the taper RO>Don,RO>> from what I've seen of some of the old rods, if yours is as you say(+ - )RO>.005, I would think that is pretty normal especially for a productionrod. IRO>have seen a lot worse. What I really should have written was +/- 0.015" (not 0.005"). It seemsone one pair of strips is off. I tried running Hexrod (for the 1st time), but even with a 2DT I wasgetting something like 500,000 force numbers - Help! Also I can't get the graphic software package (Jerry Foster's site) toload on my W95 machine. I'm getting error messages about unable to loadsome DLL files into the Windows sub-directory. Again help! Don B. from mrj@seanet.com Sat Nov 29 01:23:54 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09304 for Subject: Re: sawing bamboo I may just keep at it as you say. I have gotten my plane blade sharp as yousay and it does make a difference. You know the old saying, "practicemakesperfect".-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: sawing bamboo In a message dated 97-11-28 22:26:26 EST, you write: splitting vs sawing?>> I have some experience with woodworking, and have used band sawsquite extensively in the past. Quite frankly I can split a lot finer andgetmore strips from a culm than I would be able to saw with a band saw.I'm not too sure the "grain runout" problem would be much of a problemif you took the time to split the culm first to quarters and try to followthegrain with the saw. The reason I wouldn't use a band saw is that I'm positive I couldn'tget 32 strips from the top half of a culm from sawing as I can fromsplitting. Two skills in bamboo rodmaking that will serve you well to develop.Being able to split your culms to at least 24 strips, and sharpeningyour plane blades to a point where they are so sharp it scares you. My advice (for what it's worth) is to develop your splitting skills andskip the band saw. Darryl Hayashida from mrj@seanet.com Sat Nov 29 01:39:38 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09568 for Subject: bob kossler excuse me but is anybody else getting a reply from bob kossler to everymessage they send to this list? from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 29 02:05:48 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAB16221 +0000 Subject: Re: Silk Line Value New silk lines from Phoenix run $175 plus. Old silk lines are worth a lotmore to fish than to sell, typically can be had for $25 to $40. Believe anHBG is wf 9. (I have a 9wt 9 1/2 ft Orvis "88" I would like to try it on!)I f quite sticky, need t be cleaned with mineral spirits, then washed andscrubbed with soapy water(I don't use anything with bleach or hi-techcleaners). Polish with talcum powder when thoroughy dry and then dresswellwith RED tin Mucilin. At 12:40 AM 11/29/97 +0000, you wrote:Hello Gang, I picked up two silk lines this morning and was wondering if theyhave any value. The first line came along with an automatic reel I bought.It is in fairly good condition DT, the finish is a little sticky, but theline itself seems undamaged. This is a very fine, light line, much finerthan the second. The second is a "new in the box" Sunset ArrowheadTaper, 30yards, HBG. The finish is sticky and the box looks like it was on a storeshelf for a decade.What are old silk lines worth? Does anyone currently make themandif so what do the new ones run? Any comments would be appreciated. Thanks in Advance, Russ Gooding Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from sats@gte.net Sat Nov 29 07:40:39 1997 Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) TerryI guess there is something like "snob appeal", but don't you think thatthere isanother classification of those who truly love bamboo for a variety ofreasonsother than instant gratification? I am thnking not only of rod makers,but thoseinterested in the history of bamboo rods, those whose only interest is intheartistry and aesthetics of bamboo, those who ( and I guess you mentionedthis) justlike the experiences associated with using bamboo I think snobbery is a miniscule factor Ralph,You've got to remember that on this list you are dealing with people whoreallyLOVE bamboo rods. Many of the listers are building, not to sell, butbecausethey can't afford to buy a bamboo (or can't bring themselves to part withthemoney for a "miear " fishing rod.) and want to own one. There is something magical about catching a fish with a fly you tied. There issomething even more magical about catching a fish on a rod you built. But,when I pick up the _Round Rocks Fly fishing_ catalog and see a Winstonbamboorod starting at $1900+, Orvis going for $1400+ and so on I'd guess thatthemajority of the appeal is in the name rather then the action of the rod. Why are some used rods $175 while other in comparable condition $1400? It would be interesting to see how many of the listers who build to sell, havesold to people who seemed to be more interested in the price tag than therod. I believe that there are quite a few buyers who want to own because of"snobappeal." And that's fine. It means that there will be a market for thebuilder to sustain them, while those who may have to wait a few years toownwhat they tritely want, save. What percentage are snobs and what percentage are really Bamboo folks? I don'tknow, but I'd guess if you counted the number sold and divided that intothenumber fished, or the number that go in a clouset after one or two trips,you'dbe able to figure it out. Maybe some people are like me, looking for the "magic" stick, that feelslike anextension of their arm? Thanks for the consideration of my post and have a Happy Thanksgiving. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from gwr@seanet.com Sat Nov 29 09:21:41 1997 HAA13559 for ; Sat, 29 Nov 1997 07:21:37 Subject: Re: bob kossler Yes At 11:40 PM 11/28/97 -0800, you wrote:excuse me but is anybody else getting a reply from bob kossler to everymessage they send to this list? from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sat Nov 29 11:03:38 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA6964 +0000 Subject: Rod Refinishing I don't build, just fish cane. Lost track of Michael Sinclairs web site andI have an 8 1/2 ft Granger that is due for some work....anyone have his URLor any recommendations for someone else that does reasonably pricedqualitywork? Varnish is fine, but rod was refinished in the past with somegodawful thread and is missing a guide or two. Needs new guides (currentsizes as originals are small, designed for silk). As an aside, I love the "reverse snob appeal" of fishing cane......Icurrently fish Pezon et Michel and W&M Grangers for trout and a big Orvis"99" for steelhead...all were acquired used and typically in trade for othercane. In terms of $, none of them cost as much as a current mid to highendgraphite rod. The Orvis was $125 2 years ago and the max for any of theothers was in the neighborhood of $350. No, wouldn't sell them for that.Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Nov 29 11:27:43 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA03631 for Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) At 01:17 PM 11/29/97 GMT, you wrote: Two things: 1. Snob appeal is really irrelevant to the business of rod making. Thosewho make rods for sale need customers. Perhaps the Medici bought theworksof Michelangelo because of the snob appeal. Certainly they were competingwith Siena and Venice for the best art works and the best artists. Thisdoes not detract in any way from the power and value of Florentine art.Only when snobbish fools begin to dictate to artists and craftsmen whatthey may or may not do in their work, does snobbism end and oppressionbegin. 2. When the value of some works is driven up beyond all practicality,alternatives usually emerge. You can get a nice Granger or Eugene Edwards as well as a $1,900 Winston. -Doug TerryI guess there is something like "snob appeal", but don't you think thatthere isanother classification of those who truly love bamboo for a variety ofreasonsother than instant gratification? I am thnking not only of rod makers,but thoseinterested in the history of bamboo rods, those whose only interest is intheartistry and aesthetics of bamboo, those who ( and I guess youmentionedthis) justlike the experiences associated with using bamboo I think snobbery is a miniscule factor Ralph,You've got to remember that on this list you are dealing with people whoreallyLOVE bamboo rods. Many of the listers are building, not to sell, butbecausethey can't afford to buy a bamboo (or can't bring themselves to part withthemoney for a "miear " fishing rod.) and want to own one. There is something magical about catching a fish with a fly you tied.There issomething even more magical about catching a fish on a rod you built. But,when I pick up the _Round Rocks Fly fishing_ catalog and see a Winstonbamboorod starting at $1900+, Orvis going for $1400+ and so on I'd guess thatthemajority of the appeal is in the name rather then the action of the rod. Why are some used rods $175 while other in comparable condition$1400? It would be interesting to see how many of the listers who build to sell,havesold to people who seemed to be more interested in the price tag than therod. I believe that there are quite a few buyers who want to own because of"snobappeal." And that's fine. It means that there will be a market for thebuilder to sustain them, while those who may have to wait a few years toownwhat they tritely want, save. What percentage are snobs and what percentage are really Bamboo folks? Idon'tknow, but I'd guess if you counted the number sold and divided that intothenumber fished, or the number that go in a clouset after one or two trips,you'dbe able to figure it out. Maybe some people are like me, looking for the "magic" stick, that feelslike anextension of their arm? Thanks for the consideration of my post and have a Happy Thanksgiving. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from nicksco@fia.net Sat Nov 29 11:53:34 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA06464 for Subject: Re: bob kossler Martin Jensen wrote: excuse me but is anybody else getting a reply from bob kossler to everymessage they send to this list?Yes,sometimes 2 from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Nov 29 12:00:49 1997 Subject: Re: bob kossler RO>Martin Jensen wrote:RO>>RO>> excuse me but is anybody else getting a reply from bob kossler toeveryRO>> message they send to this list?RO>Yes,sometimes 2 I think the dear Bob has stopped - it would be nice if the next time hegoes on vacation that he drop the list until he returns. Don B. from mrj@seanet.com Sat Nov 29 12:24:38 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA15884 for Subject: Re: bob kossler Yes I quite agree. I guess that we can thank our lucky stars that he is notgoing on a one year sabbatical(G)-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: bob kossler RO>Martin Jensen wrote:RO>>RO>> excuse me but is anybody else getting a reply from bob kossler toeveryRO>> message they send to this list?RO>Yes,sometimes 2 I think the dear Bob has stopped - it would be nice if the next time hegoes on vacation that he drop the list until he returns. Don B. from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Nov 29 13:41:19 1997 Subject: Re: The Sir D Series In a message dated 97-11-29 01:39:21 EST, you write: The following is a work up of a series of tapers based on the 7' Sir Dfavorite. I have stretched the stress graph to develope a 7' 6" andshortedit to accomodate a 6' 3" after the curves were developed they were ranthrough Hexrod to create dimensions for #2 - #3 - #4 weight rods inboth 2&3 piece rods. The stress curves are as follows: Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I have already modified the rod into a shorter 2 wt., but this is great! I'm going to make one of each. Should take me about 5 years.... Darryl Hayashida from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Nov 29 18:00:37 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine - final edition In a message dated 97-11-27 07:40:21 EST, you write: I sure agree, SealRite and I thought that was the point Tony was makingwithhis Aussie humour. That is what my response meant. So many ways toskin thecat if fact that one could not possibly try them all, though with enoughlifetimes, an attempt might be fun. And to clear things up, Tony, I likeyour humour. Keep it comming. Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Nov 29 18:00:41 1997 Subject: Stranded newcomer List members: A few days a person new to building expresseddisappointmentin not being able to obtain cane until next year. I lost your message andcannot respond directly; if you read this, please contact me direct and Ithink I can help. Any other list member who has his e- add please send tome.Hate to see a new comer stranded without cane.Regards,Richard from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Nov 29 18:48:44 1997 Subject: Re: Re: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper Don,I've seen a lot worse on modern production rods selling for $1800.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Nov 29 18:48:48 1997 Subject: Re: Re: The Sir D Series Gosh, Sir D,Five years? I'll be 71 then-I guess I better do a few now. :-)Hank. from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun Nov 30 05:55:37 1997 Subject: RE Milling Cane Dear Mr.Nicks,Thank you very much for your answer, and excuse me for the privatemessage,in the future I send my messages only by the list of rodmakers.It's possible to have some info about your router milling machine?Sincerely,Marco Boretti. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 30 06:46:11 1997 Sun, 30 Nov 1997 20:46:01 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: bob kossler On Fri, 28 Nov 1997, Martin Jensen wrote: excuse me but is anybody else getting a reply from bob kossler to everymessage they send to this list? Yep, and I'll regret posting this as I just get yet another reminder that Bob is on leave.I emaild Bob asking why I should care and all I got was another message that Bob was on leave.Prompts the question: Who is this Bob Kossler person anyhow? Hope he has a good time and returns to work soon to stop these messages. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Nov 30 07:30:34 1997 HAA16404 Sun, 30 Nov 1997 21:30:21 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: New magazine - final edition On Sat, 29 Nov 1997 Fallcreek9@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-11-27 07:40:21 EST, you write: Date: 97-11-27 07:40:21 ESTFrom: SealRite@aol.comSender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu there are many ways to skin a cat - the only thing that matters is thatthecat gets skinned >> I sure agree, SealRite and I thought that was the point Tony was makingwithhis Aussie humour. That is what my response meant. So many ways toskin thecat if fact that one could not possibly try them all, though with enoughlifetimes, an attempt might be fun. And to clear things up, Tony, I likeyour humour. Keep it comming. Richard Wot, you call that a cat? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Nov 30 08:59:39 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine - final edition RO>Wot, you call that a cat? RO>Tony Our two cats have informed me that being a dubbing source is okay, butthey refused all offers to be skinned. Don B. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Nov 30 09:02:22 1997 Subject: Re: 7'6" H-I (3/1) taper RO>Don,RO> I've seen a lot worse on modern production rods selling for $1800.RO> Hank. I was supprised that H-I even made such a nice short rod - maybe becauseit was from an earlier era? Most of their '40's/'50's stuff was crap.(Tonka Queen is okay too) Don B. from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Nov 30 09:29:32 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine - final edition SealRite@aol.com wrote: there are many ways to skin a cat - the only thing that matters is thatthecat gets skinned It only matters that the cat is skinned WELL! from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Nov 30 09:31:30 1997 Subject: Re: New magazine - final edition That's not a cat. Its a hedgehog! from nicksco@fia.net Sun Nov 30 13:58:09 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA16222 for Subject: Re: RE Milling Cane Marco Boretti wrote: Dear Mr.Nicks,Thank you very much for your answer, and excuse me for the privatemessage,in the future I send my messages only by the list of rodmakers.It's possible to have some info about your router milling machine?Sincerely,Marco Boretti.Marco; Private messages are fine, the reason I said to use the list isthe people on the list have many years experience more than I do. I'm avery new person to this world. By writing your messages to the listeverone on the list can have input and help you. Thanks C. O. Nicks from DMJones500@aol.com Sun Nov 30 17:03:30 1997 Subject: Ferrule removal Hello, I have been a subscriber to the list for some months now, but havenotattempted to build a cane rod from scratch - yet. I would appreciate someadvice on a cane related problem. I recently bought a Leonard duracane blank with the ferrules already gluedinplace. In order to get the cork rings and winding check on I need to removethe ferrule on the butt section as it is a larger outside diameter than thecane blank is where the windingcheck and cork attach. Because of thetaper,if I put the cork and winding check on from the other (butt) end, the hole inthem will make them way too large to fit the diameter of the cane wheretheybelong. I think that somewhere I had read that you can heat up the ferrule to get itoff. I don't want to do any damage to either the cane or the blackened NSFerrule, so do I use hot water, a hot air gun, or flame to heat the ferruleup, and how hot do I need to get it? My thanks in advance,Dave Jones - DMJones500@aol.com from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Sun Nov 30 17:55:57 1997 (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Sun, 30 Nov 97 18:55:06 EST Subject: Re: Ferrule removal Dave, There are a couple of safe ways to remove ferrules, and you areright to worry about applying too much heat. Part of the problem is thatdifferent builders use different things to cement their ferrules. If theferrule was installed by someone other than the original builder (Leonard),I would try to get in touch with them to find out what exactly they used,and how they would recommend removing it. Heat usually works, but you will not be able to get water hotenough, and probably don't want to immerse your blank in hot water anyway.A Heat gun is a safe bet. It prob. won't damage the oxidization, and allowspretty good control. Do be warned, however, that some ferrules are pinned in place with asmall piece of wire transverse to the long axis of the blank. If you heatthe ferrule without removing this pin, the results will beexplosive--literally. Examine the ferrule closely with a lens and brightlight to make sure there is no pin. Polishing can make these quite hard tofind, so look closely. (Getting the pin out is another story.) But if there is no pin, slowly heat the ENTIRE seating length of theferrule. (This is the part in which the cane is inserted.) This isimportant because it is possible to soften only part of the cement whileleaving the other part hard. When pressure builds from the expandinggassesand expansion of the material itself, the ferrule can come off like it wasshot out of a gun. One other danger is that it is possible to over heat the ferruleitself so that the solder used to put it together flows. THis is, ofcourse, not good. So: watch carefully and if you see solder emerging fromthe joints back off, try to direct heat away from these points and towardthe glued part, use less heat, and heat it more slowly. And, of course, you don't want to over heat the cane itself. Youshouldn't heat it enough to discolor it. Be patient and the glue willeventually soften. Oh yes: try not to breath the fumes. My experiencewith epoxy is that it will not so much soften as crystalize further andbecome brittle and degrade that way. A gentle but constant pull withneedlenose pliers wrapped with tape to prevent damage to the ferrule shouldfinishthe trick. Hope that helps. Mark FreedMark.M.Freed@cmich.edu At 06:02 PM 11/30/97 -0500, you wrote:Hello, I have been a subscriber to the list for some months now, but havenotattempted to build a cane rod from scratch - yet. I would appreciatesomeadvice on a cane related problem. I recently bought a Leonard duracane blank with the ferrules alreadyglued inplace. In order to get the cork rings and winding check on I need toremovethe ferrule on the butt section as it is a larger outside diameter than thecane blank is where the windingcheck and cork attach. Because of thetaper,if I put the cork and winding check on from the other (butt) end, the holeinthem will make them way too large to fit the diameter of the cane wheretheybelong. I think that somewhere I had read that you can heat up the ferrule to getitoff. I don't want to do any damage to either the cane or the blackened NSFerrule, so do I use hot water, a hot air gun, or flame to heat the ferruleup, and how hot do I need to get it? My thanks in advance,Dave Jones - DMJones500@aol.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Nov 30 19:38:54 1997 Subject: RE:Ferrule removal RO>Hello, I have been a subscriber to the list for some months now, buthave noRO>attempted to build a cane rod from scratch - yet. I would appreciatesomeRO>advice on a cane related problem. RO>I recently bought a Leonard duracane blank with the ferrules alreadyglued iRO>place. In order to get the cork rings and winding check on I need toremoveRO>the ferrule on the butt section as it is a larger outside diameter thantheRO>cane blank is where the windingcheck and cork attach. Because of thetaper,RO>if I put the cork and winding check on from the other (butt) end, thehole iRO>them will make them way too large to fit the diameter of the canewhere theyRO>belong. RO>I think that somewhere I had read that you can heat up the ferrule toget itRO>off. I don't want to do any damage to either the cane or the blackenedNSRO>Ferrule, so do I use hot water, a hot air gun, or flame to heat theferruleRO>up, and how hot do I need to get it? RO>My thanks in advance,RO>Dave Jones - DMJones500@aol.com Dave, I use a small alcohol lamp (flame) to heat ferrules, and an oldhot-potholder to grab it and pull it off. DO NOT twist - just pull it off straight. Failure to do so will resultin the cane sections being twisted. Do look for pins in the ferrule first. If in doubt, practice on a junk section first or let someone who knowshow to do the job, do it for you. A Leonard is worth too much money tomess up. All IMHO, Don Burns PS - Most rod building catalogs will have the alcohol lamps - usedenatured alcohol in it. from brookside.rod@juno.com Sun Nov 30 20:27:41 1997 21:27:01 EST Subject: Re: Ferrule removal Dave; Don't remove the ferrules. Doing so will cause you a lot of heartache. Bore your rings to be a slightly tight fit on the rod shaft (where thehandle goes) and apply them to the shaft from the ferrule end. The corkwill stretch over the ferrule and you'll want it to be a close fit to theshaft any way. Repeat, Don't remove the ferrules. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com I recently bought a Leonard duracane blank with the ferrules already glued inplace. In order to get the cork rings and winding check on I need to removethe ferrule on the butt section as it is a larger outside diameter than thecane blank is where the windingcheck and cork attach. Because of the taper,if I put the cork and winding check on from the other (butt) end, the hole inthem will make them way too large to fit the diameter of the cane where theybelong. from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sun Nov 30 21:09:05 1997 Subject: Re: sawing bamboo SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 97-11-28 22:26:26 EST, you write: splitting vs sawing?>> I have some experience with woodworking, and have used band sawsquite extensively in the past. Quite frankly I can split a lot finer and getmore strips from a culm than I would be able to saw with a band saw.I'm not too sure the "grain runout" problem would be much of a problemif you took the time to split the culm first to quarters and try to followthegrain with the saw. The reason I wouldn't use a band saw is that I'm positive I couldn'tget 32 strips from the top half of a culm from sawing as I can fromsplitting. Two skills in bamboo rodmaking that will serve you well to develop.Being able to split your culms to at least 24 strips, and sharpeningyour plane blades to a point where they are so sharp it scares you. My advice (for what it's worth) is to develop your splitting skills andskip the band saw. Darryl Hayashida Darryl Just confirmation. I have tried to saw on and band saw and believe me, Icansplit with far less effort and get more usable cane than by sawing. Yousaid itlearn to split and sharpen that blade a hair sharper thanyou canRalph from jczimny@dol.net Sun Nov 30 21:32:57 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule removal Gary Dabrowski wrote: Dave; Don't remove the ferrules. Doing so will cause you a lot of heartache.Bore your rings to be a slightly tight fit on the rod shaft (where thehandle goes) and apply them to the shaft from the ferrule end. The corkwill stretch over the ferrule and you'll want it to be a close fit to theshaft any way. Repeat, Don't remove the ferrules. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com I recently bought a Leonard duracane blank with the ferrules alreadyglued inplace. In order to get the cork rings and winding check on I need toremovethe ferrule on the butt section as it is a larger outside diameterthan thecane blank is where the windingcheck and cork attach. Because of thetaper,if I put the cork and winding check on from the other (butt) end, thehole inthem will make them way too large to fit the diameter of the canewhere theybelong.Good advice.Zimny from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sun Nov 30 22:11:17 1997 (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id XAA26988; Sun, 30 Nov 1997 23:07:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Ferrule removal On Sun, 30 Nov 1997 DMJones500@aol.com wrote:SNIP I think that somewhere I had read that you can heat up the ferrule to getitoff. I don't want to do any damage to either the cane or the blackened NSFerrule, so do I use hot water, a hot air gun, or flame to heat the ferruleup, and how hot do I need to get it? My thanks in advance,Dave Jones - DMJones500@aol.com Hi Dave, I would only remove a damaged ferrule. And noone should remove an intactferrule if they've never done it before, especially on a Leonard. Forgothe preformed grip idea and go with cork rings installed from the buttend. Have someone turn it for you if you don't have a lathe. There areinstructions on how to make a simple cork ring clamp in American AnglerJan/Feb 96. Regards, Bob from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Nov 30 22:48:38 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule removal Are you absolutely sure the ferrule is larger than theblank where the handle will go? It would be a strangeblank indeed if this were so. Perhaps if it were a threepiece blank the lower ferrule will be closer to the samesize as the blank at the handle, but I would really wonderif a two piece blank were as you describe. Use yourcalipers to measure the diameter of the ferrule and theblank. For the O.D. of the blank you need to measure point to point not flat to flat for the purposes of fitting a handle and winding check. Darryl Hayashida