from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Dec 1 07:58:21 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Mon,1 Dec 1997 08:59:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Sweet Plane Music Never.....so far! Bill & Tony, One of the things that confound us noded builders is the "grain" of thecane coming off the node @ an angle causing the node to chip. How oftendoes the denoded cane chip at the scarfing point? Or does it? Just wondering, Don [still with my nodes on ] Andersen Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Dec 1 08:00:37 1997 (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id OAA15985 for ;Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:00:57 GMT Subject: Re: Ferrule removal At 23:48 30/11/97 -0500, you wrote: Are you absolutely sure the ferrule is larger than theblank where the handle will go? It would be a strangeblank indeed if this were so. Perhaps if it were a threepiece blank the lower ferrule will be closer to the samesize as the blank at the handle, but I would really wonderif a two piece blank were as you describe. Use yourcalipers to measure the diameter of the ferrule and theblank. For the O.D. of the blank you need to measure point to point not flat to flat for the purposes of fitting a handle and winding check. Darryl Hayashida Yes, I was thinking exactly the same. In any case, even if the ferrule has a thick welt reinforcer that takes thediameter above the cane diameter (at the position of the handle) thedifference will surely be quite small, and the cork rings shouldl beflexible enough to squeeze past the welt. If the cork rings absolutely have to be opened up, it will be no greatdifficulty to take up the slack with a turn or two of paper type maskingtape on the blank. Even quite a build-up of masking tape will be hidden bythe winding check. The old masters often used a layer or two of thread toachieve the same effect, but I've always found masking tape to beperfectlysatisfactory, provided it is firmly wound on. On the subject of ferrule removal. I would advise against long-nose pliers,or any other sort of pliers for that matter. They impose a terrible load ona small area of ferrule, and can all to easily put in a dent. One theferrule is heated, the best pulling tool is the split wooden pullerdescribed by Garrison. With two-handed pressure, and (MOSTIMPORTANTLY) astraight pull, it removes the most diabolically tight ferrules. If itdoesn't work for me, then I've missed the invisible pin. The Garrison puller is simply a piece of hardwood approx 10" x 2" x 3/4" inwhich a series of holes corresponding to the normal range of ferrule sizesin drilled. The drilled wood is then sawn through, allowing it to be slippedover a ferrule barrel. Gripping the two sides of the wood together puts astrong and even pressure on the recalcitrant ferrule, and a good straightpull zips 99/100 ferrules in a trice. Spot on Garry. John Cooper (England) NB. Whilst most postings are quite properly addressing (Sir) Darryl with hisfull title, I notice the man himself has modestly reverted to his prehonoured signature. Nice touch that. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Dec 1 12:35:28 1997 Subject: (no subject) At the last couple of "gatherings" I attended, several asked about MarkBrown. Just had a Christmas card and nice letter from Mark who is spendingevery spare moment fishing the mountains around Tucson, Arizona. He also enclosed some beautiful photos of his fishing country, the fishhe has caught and a presentation fly rod he made for an auction tofinance stream improvements. A beautiful case with the rod mounted onnickel silver "pins", a history of the cane, a sample of a culm, onesection of rough split cane and a planed strip. There was also a photo of two very unique wooden fly boxes, one of padukand one of zebra wood. He said little about his new job except that it provided ample time forfishing! George from jboone@julian.uwo.ca Mon Dec 1 15:33:24 1997 QAA22396; Subject: The Angler's Bamboo From:jboone@julian.uwo.ca (Jim Boone)Subject:The Angler's Bamboo Would a knowledgeable listmember please give me the info to contact asource midst ofa mail strike in Canada.thanks for the help, Jim Boone. from nicksco@fia.net Mon Dec 1 16:08:37 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17386 for Subject: Re: The Angler's Bamboo Jim Boone wrote: From:jboone@julian.uwo.ca (Jim Boone)Subject:The Angler's Bamboo Would a knowledgeable listmember please give me the info to contact asource midst ofa mail strike in Canada.thanks for the help, Jim Boone. Try Amazon Books at amazon.com look unuder authors name from gwr@seanet.com Mon Dec 1 16:08:55 1997 OAA06260 for ; Mon, 1 Dec 1997 14:08:52 - Subject: Re: The Angler's Bamboo Jim, It's on sale through Angler's Art 'til Dec. 31. They can be reached Good luck, Russ Gooding At 04:33 PM 12/1/97 -0500, you wrote: From:jboone@julian.uwo.ca (Jim Boone)Subject:The Angler's Bamboo Would a knowledgeable listmember please give me the info to contact asource midst ofa mail strike in Canada.thanks for the help, Jim Boone. from sats@gte.net Mon Dec 1 18:53:26 1997 Subject: Re: (no subject) Just had a Christmas card and nice letter from Mark who is spendingevery spare moment fishing the mountains around Tucson, Arizona. That Must be nice. I remember that part of Ariz as being fairly dry withmountains in the distance. This was years ago, but I doubt the mountainshavechanged very much. My first wife was from the White Mountains ofNorthern Ariz.I fell in love with the state as much as Her. How I ended in Fla I'll never know. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Mon Dec 1 18:53:28 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule removal pulling tool is the split wooden pullerdescribed by Garrison. With two-handed pressure, and (MOSTIMPORTANTLY) astraight pull, it removes the most diabolically tight ferrules. If itdoesn't work for me, then I've missed the invisible pin. The Garrison puller is simply a piece of hardwood approx 10" x 2" x 3/4"inwhich a series of holes corresponding to the normal range of ferrulesizesin drilled. The drilled wood is then sawn through, allowing it to beslippedover a ferrule barrel. Gripping the two sides of the wood together puts astrong and even pressure on the recalcitrant ferrule, and a good straightpull zips 99/100 ferrules in a trice. Spot on Garry. One addition I did was placing two strips of wood across one end, securingthemwith two bolts. This allows me to use one hand on the section and onehand onthe puller. One other suggestion. As stated before, DON'T twist the bamboo. If it'shotenough to pull the ferrule, it's hot enough to be plastic. I put one side ofmypuller in a vice, so it's secure. That way at least half of the problem isn'twaving around all over the workroom. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Mon Dec 1 18:57:10 1997 mailfep3-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Ferrule removal type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" J. C. Zimny wrote: Gary Dabrowski wrote: Dave; Don't remove the ferrules. Doing so will cause you a lot ofheartache.Bore your rings to be a slightly tight fit on the rod shaft (wherethehandle goes) and apply them to the shaft from the ferrule end. Thecorkwill stretch over the ferrule and you'll want it to be a close fitto theshaft any way. Repeat, Don't remove the ferrules. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com writes:I recently bought a Leonard duracane blank with the ferrulesalreadyglued inplace. In order to get the cork rings and winding check on I needtoremovethe ferrule on the butt section as it is a larger outside diameterthan thecane blank is where the windingcheck and cork attach. Because ofthetaper,if I put the cork and winding check on from the other (butt) end,thehole inthem will make them way too large to fit the diameter of the canewhere theybelong.Good advice.Zimny I concur with the above advice. I always attach and fit ferrules afterthe blanks are built. This way the whole rod cane be straightened withthe ferrules in place. The cork rings are slipped over the femaleferrule and forced down unto the shaft with a good tight fit -- arat-tail file helps to enlarge the cork ring bore to slip over theferrule. Glue and compress the rings into position. When dry, turn thewhole assembly in your lathe to shape the cork grip. Fit and glue thereel seat from the opposite end. Removal of the ferrule is totallyunnecessary! Joe Lovertihttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Dec 1 19:12:19 1997 Subject: Re: Re: New magazine - final edition Tony,I like your humour (humor?) no matter how it's spelled.We revolutionary colonials never did learn to spell correctly.Hank from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Dec 1 19:40:19 1997 Subject: Re: The Angler's Bamboo Try The Angler's Art,P.O.Box 148C,Plainfield,PA 17081or 1 (800) 848-1020 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Dec 1 19:40:23 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Ferrule removal Dave,I agree with John and Gary-Ive stretched cork over a lot of ferrules.Hank. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Dec 1 21:07:44 1997 Subject: Two Apologies I have fallen to my normal knee jerk reaction and need to apologize tothe list for it. Earlier I responded to a post describing the retained valueof different fly rods. The image that I had in my mind I have been told isn'twhat others saw. Having my feet held to the fire I see in re reading myresponse that my closing comments were perhaps out of place.95 percent of flyfishers are great folks - of the other 5% there are afew of those - in your face types - that bring out the rare ugly in me. Overthe years I have had my share of full body slam public abuses because I'mnotcaught up in the latest of fly rod creations. The time I was told that Ishould BUY my daughter a REAL fly rod was perhaps the worst. It's not themoney issues or what the rod is made of - it's the person - the one that istrying to make you kneel down to their power or apparent knowledge. Thewordsand illustration I used were only meant to prepare others for that rareencounter. But now I'm safely leashed to the porch and promise not to do itagain. The second is for my complete lack of organization. In this case, thelose of an address. I make many commitments and strive to keep them allBUTat times I need a subtle reminder or at least a bail out of some really Wayne from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Dec 1 22:04:14 1997 Subject: RE:Two Apologies RO> I have fallen to my normal knee jerk reaction and need to apologizetoRO>the list for it. Earlier I responded to a post describing the retainedvalueRO>of different fly rods. The image that I had in my mind I have been toldisn'RO>what others saw. Having my feet held to the fire I see in re reading myRO>response that my closing comments were perhaps out of place.RO> 95 percent of flyfishers are great folks - of the other 5% there areaRO>few of those - in your face types - that bring out the rare ugly in me.OveRO>the years I have had my share of full body slam public abuses becauseI'm noRO>caught up in the latest of fly rod creations. The time I was told that IRO>should BUY my daughter a REAL fly rod was perhaps the worst. It's nottheRO>money issues or what the rod is made of - it's the person - the onethat isRO>trying to make you kneel down to their power or apparent knowledge.The wordRO>and illustration I used were only meant to prepare others for that rareRO>encounter. But now I'm safely leashed to the porch and promise not todo itRO>again.RO>RO> The second is for my complete lack of organization. In this case, theRO>lose of an address. I make many commitments and strive to keep themall BUTRO>at times I need a subtle reminder or at least a bail out of some reallyRO>idiotic mistake on my part. RO>Wayne Wayne, I thought your 1st reply was: great, dead-on, spoken like a sage .... Don B. from rennyg@ibm.net Mon Dec 1 22:08:41 1997 Subject: Re: Two Apologies Wayne, After more years than I like to admit, I have found myself trying not togetupset with people who make stupid comments (referencing the person whoadvisedyou to get a real fly rod for your daughter). Mostly, this is because overtheyears, I have made so many stupid comments myself, not to mention othertypes ofstupid mistakes. Indeed, I hope this note is not another one of them! I'm sure I'm not the lone reader of this forum who feels that the manymagnificent contributions you have made to bamboo rod making outweigh athousandfold any need for apologies. I for one am grateful for your willingness tocontribute so generously to the list. Renny WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I have fallen to my normal knee jerk reaction and need to apologizetothe list for it. Earlier I responded to a post describing the retained valueof different fly rods. The image that I had in my mind I have been toldisn'twhat others saw. Having my feet held to the fire I see in re reading myresponse that my closing comments were perhaps out of place.95 percent of flyfishers are great folks - of the other 5% there are afew of those - in your face types - that bring out the rare ugly in me.Overthe years I have had my share of full body slam public abuses because I'mnotcaught up in the latest of fly rod creations. The time I was told that Ishould BUY my daughter a REAL fly rod was perhaps the worst. It's notthemoney issues or what the rod is made of - it's the person - the one thatistrying to make you kneel down to their power or apparent knowledge. Thewordsand illustration I used were only meant to prepare others for that rareencounter. But now I'm safely leashed to the porch and promise not to doitagain. The second is for my complete lack of organization. In this case, thelose of an address. I make many commitments and strive to keep them allBUTat times I need a subtle reminder or at least a bail out of some really Wayne --__________________________________________ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431__________________________________________ from nicksco@fia.net Mon Dec 1 22:27:15 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA02957 for Subject: Re: Two Apologies Renny Greenmun wrote: Wayne, After more years than I like to admit, I have found myself trying not togetupset with people who make stupid comments (referencing the personwho advisedyou to get a real fly rod for your daughter). Mostly, this is because overtheyears, I have made so many stupid comments myself, not to mentionother types ofstupid mistakes. Indeed, I hope this note is not another one of them! I'm sure I'm not the lone reader of this forum who feels that the manymagnificent contributions you have made to bamboo rod making outweigha thousandfold any need for apologies. I for one am grateful for your willingness tocontribute so generously to the list. Renny WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I have fallen to my normal knee jerk reaction and need to apologizetothe list for it. Earlier I responded to a post describing the retainedvalueof different fly rods. The image that I had in my mind I have been toldisn'twhat others saw. Having my feet held to the fire I see in re reading myresponse that my closing comments were perhaps out of place.95 percent of flyfishers are great folks - of the other 5% there areafew of those - in your face types - that bring out the rare ugly in me.Overthe years I have had my share of full body slam public abuses becauseI'm notcaught up in the latest of fly rod creations. The time I was told that Ishould BUY my daughter a REAL fly rod was perhaps the worst. It's notthemoney issues or what the rod is made of - it's the person - the onethat istrying to make you kneel down to their power or apparent knowledge.The wordsand illustration I used were only meant to prepare others for that rareencounter. But now I'm safely leashed to the porch and promise not todo itagain. The second is for my complete lack of organization. In this case, thelose of an address. I make many commitments and strive to keep themall BUTat times I need a subtle reminder or at least a bail out of some really Wayne --__________________________________________ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431__________________________________________I don't know what all the apologies are about but I'm thankful forpeople like you and the contribution that you make to the list. It hashelped me very much, and also your book. If it's wrong keep doing it.Thanks C. O. Nicks from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 1 23:17:53 1997 Subject: Re: Two Apologies Well, maybe not a Sage,. . . maybe an Orvis, or a Loomis. ;^) from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 1 23:34:18 1997 Subject: Planig and lookin' fer silk lines I was just down in the basement enjoying the sweet sound of a sharpblade slicing effortlessly through bamboo nodes, chasing 60 degreeangles down one strip to just a couple of thou from the forms (gotcha!,you sorry sucker!), and thinking about fishing next spring (brief pause old South Bend 290 sing like a well tuned plane this past summer at theGrayling Gathering (thanks Reed, just what I needed, something else tospend money on!) and decided to ask the list, does anyone have (or knowof someone who may be holding) some usable, floating, silk lines in 4and 6 wt DT, or 5 or 7 WF? I don't want any hockey pucks, but I wouldbe interested in otherwise decent lines that needed restoration. Don'tsuggest Pheonix lines, its almost Christmas and anyway I wouldn't spend$175 for a line if I won the lotto.If you have something you think might fill the bill please e-mail meoff list. Thanks, Brian > from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Dec 1 23:49:04 1997 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA3976 Subject: Re: Two Apologies Uh, wrong list for a Loomis. :-) George Bourke ----------From: Brian & Michelle Creek Subject: Re: Two ApologiesDate: Monday, December 01, 1997 9:15 PM Well, maybe not a Sage,. . . maybe an Orvis, or a Loomis. ;^) from fer@surfplanet.com Tue Dec 2 05:23:34 1997 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id LAA20544 for; Tue, 2 Dec 1997 11:25:04 GMT Subject: Re: Two Apologies WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I have fallen to my normal knee jerk reaction and need toapologize tothe list for it. Earlier I responded to a post describing the retainedvalueof different fly rods. The image that I had in my mind I have been toldisn'twhat others saw. Having my feet held to the fire I see in re readingmyresponse that my closing comments were perhaps out of place.95 percent of flyfishers are great folks - of the other 5% thereare afew of those - in your face types - that bring out the rare ugly in me.Overthe years I have had my share of full body slam public abuses becauseI'm notcaught up in the latest of fly rod creations. The time I was told that Ishould BUY my daughter a REAL fly rod was perhaps the worst. It's notthemoney issues or what the rod is made of - it's the person - the onethat istrying to make you kneel down to their power or apparent knowledge.The wordsand illustration I used were only meant to prepare others for thatrareencounter. But now I'm safely leashed to the porch and promise not todo itagain. The second is for my complete lack of organization. In this case,thelose of an address. I make many commitments and strive to keep themall BUTat times I need a subtle reminder or at least a bail out of some really Wayne Wayne, I believe that no apologies needed at all. Me, as an amateur rod builder farapart(here in Spain) , I doubly apreciate your dedication to the list and willalways bevery grateful to your (and the rest of the list) contribution to the deepknowledgeof bamboo fly rods. Also I think that all of us should look after the list asit is agreat way to comunicate each other about our real passion. Fernando. from DEMARALON@aol.com Tue Dec 2 07:14:20 1997 Subject: Re: The Angler's Bamboo Dear Jim, You can go right to the source - the publisher of Luis Marden's book, TheAngler's Bamboo. It is Lyons and Burford, in New York - 800 836- 0510 -TonyLyons, extentsion 39 - or fax at 212 929-1836. They are located at 31West21st St, NYC 10010.Harold Demarest from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Tue Dec 2 08:33:02 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Apologies for Waynes' apology Alright! Alright! I'm the guilty party! I confess, and beg, BEG forabsolution. I am the guilty party who took Wayne (my absolute rod-buildingHERO!!) to task for lowering himself to become almost human in criticizingthose of us who have closets absolutely FULL of graphite, fiberglass,bamboo (you get the idea) with absolutely no intent for them to be used asinvestments (except, perhaps, for the fellow I met Saturday in a local flyshop who wants to sell me a mint Garrison). My sincere apologies to Wayne investment, huh?) to financially strapped college students who show aserious interest in fly fishing. I simply can't help myself--for some 50years of fly fishing, I have never found a (especially short!!) rod Ididn't like to cast (although I like some better than others) whether it bebamboo, fiberglass, boron (well, perhaps there is an exception!), orgraphite. I apologize for not being a bamboo purist--but I admit that I amworking on it. Hey, folks, bamboo FEELS good (guess it's that snob appealin me), started out with one when I was nine, then lost my purity whenhi-tech came along. Wayne, in front of all serious rodmakers out there, mysincerest apology!Trout Grouche-mail: jerry.snider@uc.edu from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Tue Dec 2 08:49:44 1997 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 2 Dec 1997 09:49:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Apologies for Waynes' apology Jerry - does you generosity include financially strapped fathers of two? Jerry Snider wrote: Alright! Alright! I'm the guilty party! I confess, and beg, BEG forabsolution. I am the guilty party who took Wayne (my absolute rod-buildingHERO!!) to task for lowering himself to become almost human incriticizingthose of us who have closets absolutely FULL of graphite, fiberglass,bamboo (you get the idea) with absolutely no intent for them to be usedasinvestments (except, perhaps, for the fellow I met Saturday in a localflyshop who wants to sell me a mint Garrison). My sincere apologies toWayne (someinvestment, huh?) to financially strapped college students who show aserious interest in fly fishing. I simply can't help myself--for some 50years of fly fishing, I have never found a (especially short!!) rod Ididn't like to cast (although I like some better than others) whether it bebamboo, fiberglass, boron (well, perhaps there is an exception!), orgraphite. I apologize for not being a bamboo purist--but I admit that I amworking on it. Hey, folks, bamboo FEELS good (guess it's that snob appealin me), started out with one when I was nine, then lost my purity whenhi-tech came along. Wayne, in front of all serious rodmakers out there,mysincerest apology!Trout Grouche-mail: jerry.snider@uc.edu from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 2 09:36:34 1997 Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:36:25 +0800 (WST) Subject: RE:Two Apologies On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO> I have fallen to my normal knee jerk reaction and need toapologize toRO>the list for it. Earlier I responded to a post describing the retainedvalueRO>of different fly rods. The image that I had in my mind I have been toldisn'RO>what others saw. Having my feet held to the fire I see in re readingmyRO>response that my closing comments were perhaps out of place.RO> 95 percent of flyfishers are great folks - of the other 5% thereare aRO>few of those - in your face types - that bring out the rare ugly in me.OveRO>the years I have had my share of full body slam public abuses becauseI'm noRO>caught up in the latest of fly rod creations. The time I was told that IRO>should BUY my daughter a REAL fly rod was perhaps the worst. It'snot theRO>money issues or what the rod is made of - it's the person - the onethat isRO>trying to make you kneel down to their power or apparent knowledge.The wordRO>and illustration I used were only meant to prepare others for thatrareRO>encounter. But now I'm safely leashed to the porch and promise not todo itRO>again.RO>RO> The second is for my complete lack of organization. In this case,theRO>lose of an address. I make many commitments and strive to keepthem all BUTRO>at times I need a subtle reminder or at least a bail out of some reallyRO>idiotic mistake on my part. RO>Wayne Wayne, I thought your 1st reply was: great, dead-on, spoken like a sage .... Don B. Did you tell the guy with the plastic fixation to "knick off"? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 2 09:40:54 1997 Tue, 2 Dec 1997 23:40:31 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: The Angler's Bamboo On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 DEMARALON@aol.com wrote: Dear Jim, You can go right to the source - the publisher of Luis Marden's book, TheAngler's Bamboo. It is Lyons and Burford, in New York - 800 836- 0510 -TonyLyons, extentsion 39 - or fax at 212 929-1836. They are located at 31West21st St, NYC 10010.Harold Demarest Tony Lyons gave me what would be close to the best service I've seen for a long time when I purchased a couple of books from him recently. Highly recomened. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from maiello@yorku.ca Tue Dec 2 09:56:48 1997 (ncpTxjoF4E3255w+y4GPgstPC5fr6tZ3@sunspot.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA02418 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Two Apologies Wayne,I think that email may be the worst forum over which emotions orexpressions can be conveyed.It is very easy to mis-understand the true feelings of someone.Also, I think anyone that knows you at all (I only met you once atGrayrock) would know that your intentions are honest.Unlike your "friend" with the advice about real rods, that probably onlydreams of being able to make a rod half as good as one of yours.Envy makes people say many stupid things.Mauro On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: I have fallen to my normal knee jerk reaction and need to apologizetothe list for it. Earlier I responded to a post describing the retained valueof different fly rods. The image that I had in my mind I have been toldisn'twhat others saw. Having my feet held to the fire I see in re reading myresponse that my closing comments were perhaps out of place.95 percent of flyfishers are great folks - of the other 5% there are afew of those - in your face types - that bring out the rare ugly in me.Overthe years I have had my share of full body slam public abuses because I'mnotcaught up in the latest of fly rod creations. The time I was told that Ishould BUY my daughter a REAL fly rod was perhaps the worst. It's notthemoney issues or what the rod is made of - it's the person - the one thatistrying to make you kneel down to their power or apparent knowledge. Thewordsand illustration I used were only meant to prepare others for that rareencounter. But now I'm safely leashed to the porch and promise not to doitagain. The second is for my complete lack of organization. In this case, thelose of an address. I make many commitments and strive to keep them allBUTat times I need a subtle reminder or at least a bail out of some really Wayne from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Dec 2 10:06:23 1997 Subject: RE:Two Apologies RO>Did you tell the guy with the plastic fixation to "knick off"? RO>Tony Tony, I try not to pick on someone suffering from BDD (bamboo denialdisorder). I suggest that they seek treatment. (usually at the nearest stream ) Since the fellow has attended a BA meeting, stood up and took it hislicks and announced that he's a graphite-holic, I think we should let itslip this time. Don B. PS - In case anyone has any doubts -- this is tongue-in-cheek! from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Tue Dec 2 10:09:50 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, "Jerry - does you generosity include financially strapped fathers of two?""John A. Whitaker" Likely not, John, unless you're the new father of seven!! But who knows?Contact me off line and see! Trout Grouche-mail: jerry.snider@uc.edu from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Dec 2 10:53:03 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Tue,2 Dec 1997 11:53:52 -0500 Subject: Bellinger Does anyone have a # for Al Bellinger? Thanks in advance.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277- 9781 from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Dec 2 11:56:17 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bellinger -----503-371-6151 2017 25th st seSalem Oregon---- From: Jon Lintvet[SMTP:jlintvet@clarityconnect.com] Sent: Tuesday, December 02, 1997 3:53 AM Subject: Bellinger Does anyone have a # for Al Bellinger? Thanks in advance.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277- 9781 from m.boretti@agonet.it Tue Dec 2 12:03:48 1997 Subject: R: Bellinger Dear Jon,I send the address of Bellinger Reel Co.BELLINGER REEL SEATS2017 25th Street S.E.Salem, OR 97302Ph. 503.371.6151Fx. 503.371.3771Sincerely,Marco ----------Da: Jon Lintvet A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: martedá 2 dicembre 1997 12.53 Does anyone have a # for Al Bellinger? Thanks in advance.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277- 9781 from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Dec 2 12:05:24 1997 Subject: Wayne's apology Well, I guess I wasn't paying attention, because I missed the originalinsult, but I'm glad Wayne apologised to the graphite guys. After all, theyare a clever bunch and deserve some respect. Just last night I got a newcatalog and noted with amazement that one of them is now offering a 0weightoutfit. I'll just bet it will turn the merest fingerling into a nobleopponent. I think I'll save my money till next year though, one of them isbound to figure out that if they fill up the center of the rod and theflyline with hydrogen filled microballoons they can offer the world's first-1 weight. Think about it, the line would never touch the water. Youcouldn'tspook a fish no matter how lousy you cast. If the fishing stunk, you couldcast to birds...or bats.... from m.boretti@agonet.it Tue Dec 2 12:09:39 1997 Subject: Renewal subscription of The Planing Form. Message for Ron Barch.Hi Ron,I do not have your E-mail address, and I do not have received any message from you concerning my renewal subscription.Please, send the message concerning it.sincerely,Marco from jczimny@dol.net Tue Dec 2 15:52:49 1997 Subject: Re: Wayne's apology TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Well, I guess I wasn't paying attention, because I missed the originalinsult, but I'm glad Wayne apologised to the graphite guys. After all, theyare a clever bunch and deserve some respect. Just last night I got a newcatalog and noted with amazement that one of them is now offering a 0weightoutfit. I'll just bet it will turn the merest fingerling into a nobleopponent. I think I'll save my money till next year though, one of them isbound to figure out that if they fill up the center of the rod and theflyline with hydrogen filled microballoons they can offer the world'sfirst-1 weight. Think about it, the line would never touch the water. Youcouldn'tspook a fish no matter how lousy you cast. If the fishing stunk, you couldcast to birds...or bats....How about the square root of minus one weight. Or, perhaps an "i" or "j"weight depending upon your persuasion (math or engineering). Or howabout a "virtual" weight. Then we would'nt have to buy a line at all. Or maybe they could sell a virtual line anyway. Then one could finallyget nothing for something.Zimny from Jdneufs@aol.com Tue Dec 2 17:24:44 1997 Subject: Re. Colonial spelling Tony & HankAs one of our just slightly post colonial presidents said: It's a damnpoor mindthat can only think of one way to spell a word.Andrew JacksonOld Hickory probably built fly rods his own way too.Dan from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 2 17:42:12 1997 Wed, 3 Dec 1997 07:41:54 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Re. Colonial spelling On Tue, 2 Dec 1997 Jdneufs@aol.com wrote: Tony & HankAs one of our just slightly post colonial presidents said: It's a damnpoor mindthat can only think of one way to spell a word.Andrew JacksonOld Hickory probably built fly rods his own way too.Dan I guess if he was using that machine I read he had made that allowed him to write several letters at once he didn't have time to fix spelling errors either. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 2 17:50:42 1997 Subject: Re: Re. Colonial spelling probably built hickory rods. the true reason for the nick name! from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 2 18:15:24 1997 Wed, 3 Dec 1997 08:15:15 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: New magazine - final edition On Mon, 1 Dec 1997 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Tony,I like your humour (humor?) no matter how it's spelled.We revolutionary colonials never did learn to spell correctly.Hank It's good there are two wild colonial boys on the list, even if we can't spell American.Where are you from? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from nicksco@fia.net Tue Dec 2 18:55:32 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA23521 for Subject: Graphite? what's that? I have never had the pleasure? of fishing with a graphite or glasspole, so I might not understand what the arguement is about. I thoughtthat this list was about BAMBOO! I think I'm one of the colonial peoplealso, because I have trouble spelling also. from eestlow@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 2 20:14:38 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA4457 +0000 Subject: Re: Wayne's apology TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: SNIP If the fishing stunk, you couldcast to birds...or bats.... I know people who have caught bats while fishing in the evening and betsome of you have, too! Best regards,Ed Estlow from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Tue Dec 2 20:43:08 1997 Subject: Cutter Sharpening Being new to this group, how many of you builders use a : 1. Beveler 2. Mill Also, for those who do, do you sharpen your own cutters (ie.. HSS &Carbide)? from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Dec 2 21:39:57 1997 Subject: Finishing methods Greetings! I'd be grateful if the bretheren (/sistern?) would help me out withsomething. Not getting a chance to see very many rods from contemorary builders, Iamkinda in the dark about prevailing practices concerning: a. from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 2 22:19:45 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA6604 +0000 Subject: Re: Planig and lookin' fer silk lines I have (not giving them up!) some old Orvis intermediates in a DT and thinkthey are about as close to silk in handling and diameter as you can get.Believe they only make the line is a wf currently. It is the right colortoo, amber. At 05:31 AM 12/2/97 +0000, you wrote:I was just down in the basement enjoying the sweet sound of a sharpblade slicing effortlessly through bamboo nodes, chasing 60 degreeangles down one strip to just a couple of thou from the forms (gotcha!,you sorry sucker!), and thinking about fishing next spring (brief pause old South Bend 290 sing like a well tuned plane this past summer at theGrayling Gathering (thanks Reed, just what I needed, something else tospend money on!) and decided to ask the list, does anyone have (or knowof someone who may be holding) some usable, floating, silk lines in 4and 6 wt DT, or 5 or 7 WF? I don't want any hockey pucks, but I wouldbe interested in otherwise decent lines that needed restoration. Don'tsuggest Pheonix lines, its almost Christmas and anyway I wouldn't spend$175 for a line if I won the lotto.If you have something you think might fill the bill please e-mail meoff list. Thanks, Brian > Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Dec 2 22:29:03 1997 Subject: Finishing methods / Classic tapers Hi Gang If I might beg your indulgences for a minute, I'd love to know what kind offinishing techniques and materials are "de rigeur" at the present. Since Idon't see a lot of contemporary rods, and all my literature is fairly old,I'd really appreciate it if some of you could take a moment and respondverybriefly to the following: What type/brand of finish? Do you use color preserver? What kind? What application methods? Ever use anything to color the cane? Etc. The second part of my communique concerns a local gent who hasconsented toallow me to have at his collection with my micrometer and tape. Thereare afew really nice Cross, Heddon, Thomas and others foreign and domestic,whosetapers might help fill out the available body of information. Unless another route seems more appropriate, I'll post them on the list asthe numbers are processed. One thing which gives me pause (at leastduringthe full moon) is that even the best makes seem to have some eccentricityatmost stations along the length of the stick. What is the usual practice?Average them out? Measure only along the spine? Finally let me express my heartfelt appreciation to all of you who helpmakethis beautiful craft more accessible to myself and others by piercing thefogof our ignorance with the halogen driving lamp of your collectiveexperienceand good will. Even the Australian. Most sincerely, Davy Riggs from jbr842@airmail.net Wed Dec 3 03:47:01 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.216) with smtp for Subject: Re: Bats Ed Estlow wrote: TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: SNIP If the fishing stunk, you couldcast to birds...or bats.... I know people who have caught bats while fishing in the evening and betsome of you have, too! Best regards,Ed Estlow Yes, and it plays hell with a new tapered leader, too. Jim from brookside.rod@juno.com Wed Dec 3 04:40:25 1997 05:40:05 EST Subject: Re: Cutter Sharpening Hello Paul;In my shop I process strips thru two machines. The first mills to aparticular thickness. The second is set up to bevel. Cutters are sentout for sharpening. A taper mill is under construction. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.comhttp://home.onestop.net/brookside On Tue, 02 Dec 1997 18:45:49 -0800 Paul Whitely writes:Being new to this group, how many of you builders use a :1. Beveler2. MillAlso, for those who do, do you sharpen your own cutters (ie.. HSS &Carbide)? from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Dec 3 06:11:33 1997 Subject: Re: Bats Jim Bryan wrote: Ed Estlow wrote: TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: SNIP If the fishing stunk, you couldcast to birds...or bats.... I know people who have caught bats while fishing in the evening andbetsome of you have, too! Best regards,Ed Estlow Yes, and it plays hell with a new tapered leader, too. Jim You should try a cow elk on a royal wulff and a 4x tippit Ralph Moon from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Dec 3 06:23:45 1997 Subject: Re: Finishing methods / Classic tapers The second part of my communique concerns a local gent who hasconsented toallow me to have at his collection with my micrometer and tape. Thereare afew really nice Cross, Heddon, Thomas and others foreign and domestic,whosetapers might help fill out the available body of information. Unless another route seems more appropriate, I'll post them on the listasthe numbers are processed. One thing which gives me pause (at leastduringthe full moon) is that even the best makes seem to have someeccentricity atmost stations along the length of the stick. What is the usual practice?Average them out? Measure only along the spine? Finally let me express my heartfelt appreciation to all of you who helpmakethis beautiful craft more accessible to myself and others by piercing thefogof our ignorance with the halogen driving lamp of your collectiveexperienceand good will. Even the Australian. Most sincerely,Davy Riggs A very good point. In the past I have usually averaged the three flatmeasurement, but this is probably flawwed, in that I usually found twomeaurements within reasonable tolerances and the third was way ouf. Again aspine is not always lined up with the casting plane, no matter how goodwe thinkwe do our job, so that route may be questionable. I would like to hearothers onthe subject. At the same time, I think we also might address varnishthickness.I know that even on my rods there is often a significant differencedepending onhow I finished the rods., yet is seems a little sacreligious to scrake downtothe cane to get a measurement. Ralph Moon from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Dec 3 08:11:34 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Wed,3 Dec 1997 09:11:06 -0500 Subject: Different Topic I am under a crunch to finish a bunch of, dare I say it, graphite rods. Anyhow, I am curious what you all think is the best way to attach a piece of bamboo or other material, to a rod turner while you finish wraps. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 3 08:35:32 1997 Subject: Re: Finishing methods / Classic tapers RO>> The second part of my communique concerns a local gent who hasconsented tRO>> allow me to have at his collection with my micrometer and tape. There areRO>> few really nice Cross, Heddon, Thomas and others foreign anddomestic, whoRO>> tapers might help fill out the available body of information.RO>>RO>> Unless another route seems more appropriate, I'll post them on thelist asRO>> the numbers are processed. One thing which gives me pause (at leastdurinRO>> the full moon) is that even the best makes seem to have someeccentricityRO>> most stations along the length of the stick. What is the usualpractice?RO>> Average them out? Measure only along the spine?RO>>RO>> Finally let me express my heartfelt appreciation to all of you whohelp maRO>> this beautiful craft more accessible to myself and others by piercingtheRO>> of our ignorance with the halogen driving lamp of your collectiveexperienRO>> and good will. Even the Australian.RO>>RO>> Most sincerely,RO>> Davy Riggs RO>A very good point. In the past I have usually averaged the three flatRO>measurement, but this is probably flawwed, in that I usually found twoRO>meaurements within reasonable tolerances and the third was way ouf. Again aRO>spine is not always lined up with the casting plane, no matter howgood we tRO>we do our job, so that route may be questionable. I would like to hearotheRO>the subject. At the same time, I think we also might address varnishthicknRO>I know that even on my rods there is often a significant differencedependinRO>how I finished the rods., yet is seems a little sacreligious to scrakedownRO>the cane to get a measurement. RO>Ralph Moon I had the same problem with my recently posted taper for a H-I rod. Iguess maybe we should publish all three measurements. If one were toguess that the 2 closest matched values were the intended taper, youcould be wrong too. Several bare (without varnish) rods of the sametaper averaged would be the best method - but how many people arewilling to strip a classic rod just to measure it? Regarding classic production rods, Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo RodRestoration Handbook" offers a good beginning for thread types, colorsand preservers used by classic production houses. I've spoken (email) toMichael about joining this list, haven't seen him post, and asked ifhe'd be willing to add his rod finish detail database to Jerry's website. (or create his own) No tapers, just wrap details etc. It would be nice to have a central database of all the tapers anddetails for the vast majority of the classic rods. But I often wonder ifmodern makers have complete records of all of their rods, or if someone100 years from now will be asking the same questions regarding finishdetails of Wayne's, Tony's, Tom's, Darryl's etc. rods? I guess we have to remember, first and foremost - they're only fishingrods! Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 3 08:48:36 1997 Subject: RE:Different Topic RO>I am under a crunch to finish a bunch of, dare I say it, graphiteRO>rods. Anyhow, I am curious what you all think is the best way toRO>attach a piece of bamboo or other material, to a rod turner while youRO>finish wraps. RO> Jon Lintvet I use some masking tape to for a "ring" and then clamp the ring in theturner's jaws. Or if you have a rubber donut style chuck, you can insertthe ferrule and turn. Do support the same with more rings whereever youhave support stands on your turner, don't allow the cane to be damaged Don PS - You used the "G" word - shame. from fer@surfplanet.com Wed Dec 3 09:37:53 1997 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA22700 for; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 15:39:14 GMT Subject: Re: Bats Ed Estlow wrote: I know people who have caught bats while fishing in the evening and betsome of you have, too! Best regards,Ed Estlow Yes and I didn't notice for a while. I was wandering where in the hellwhere gone my casting abilities instead, as my line was flying here andthere. The bat was lucky though, it was a barbless hook as usual. Fernando Rada. from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 3 10:04:46 1997 Subject: Zero weight and bats (Was:Wayne's apology) In a message dated 97-12-02 13:45:15 EST, you write: I'll just bet it will turn the merest fingerling into a nobleopponent. Just what the local trout fishing is like around here. Hmmmm...anybody know what the first 30 feet of a zero weight lineweighs? I bet I can develop a zero weight taper in bamboo..... If the fishing stunk, you couldcast to birds...or bats.... I did catch a bat once. My 5 weight overpowered it a littlebit, but it probably would have been a worthy adversary witha three weight or less. Darryl Hayashida from jbr842@airmail.net Wed Dec 3 10:37:51 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.216) with smtp for Subject: Re: Bats Ralph W Moon wrote: Jim Bryan wrote: Ed Estlow wrote: TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: SNIP If the fishing stunk, you couldcast to birds...or bats.... I know people who have caught bats while fishing in the evening andbetsome of you have, too! Best regards,Ed Estlow Yes, and it plays hell with a new tapered leader, too. Jim You should try a cow elk on a royal wulff and a 4x tippit Ralph Moon Ralph, What size Royal Wulff do you recommend? from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Dec 3 11:00:17 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA142608416; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:00:16 -0800 Subject: Bat Fishing O.K., all this discussion of bat fishing has caught my interest. But before I start yet another hobby/pastime I have some questions. 1) Do you rollcast for these critters? 2) Do banty rods work best inside a cave? 3) What is the Oregon bag limit on bats or is catch and release the norm? 4) Barbless hooks.... hah!!, I think a hookless fly might be the key. 5) The -1 wt. helium impregnated full floating flyline mentioned in an earlier post has merit for this application. 6) I suspect some of you cane planers are already evaluating tapers for this new sport. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Canerods@aol.com Wed Dec 3 11:13:59 1997 Subject: Re: Wayne's apology I've heard of plastic rods that were made to look like bamboo, I've neverheard of a bamboo rod made to look like black plastic! So I thought the"real" rods were made from bamboo - the others were just imitations.(spoken Don Burns canerods@aol.com or flyfisher@cmix.com from mrj@seanet.com Wed Dec 3 11:21:51 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA08448 for Subject: Re: Different Topic What I have used in the past is to take a piece of cork ring with a smallhole in it and force it on to the end of the rod and then clamp it. If Ihave the reel seat on which I usually do I just cover the end with maskingtape.-----Original Message----- Subject: Different Topic I am under a crunch to finish a bunch of, dare I say it, graphiterods. Anyhow, I am curious what you all think is the best way toattach a piece of bamboo or other material, to a rod turner while youfinish wraps. Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781 from rfairfie@cisco.com Wed Dec 3 12:33:25 1997 KAA29543 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 10:32:52 - Subject: Re: Different Topic Jon, I use masking tape. Thanks,Roger from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Dec 3 06:17:32 1997Date: Wed, 3 Dec 1997 09:10:40 +0000 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "Jon Lintvet" Subject: Different TopicMIME-Version: 1.0Content-transfer-encoding: 7BITX- mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN I am under a crunch to finish a bunch of, dare I say it, graphite rods. Anyhow, I am curious what you all think is the best way to attach a piece of bamboo or other material, to a rod turner while you finish wraps. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from CALucker@aol.com Wed Dec 3 13:49:18 1997 Subject: Re: Cutter Sharpening I have built a number of rough and finish mills over the years and oneawfulbeveler. My fancier carbide cutters specially designed and ground for cane I sendoutto the local tool grinder. When I use the Asian HHS 2.75 inch cutters Idon't bother to grind more relief or sharpen. They only cost $42 a pair sowhen they get dull I turn them into Christmas Tree ornaments. My router cutters are off the shelf two piece carbide three wing cutters.They have never got used enough to get dull. I don't think a router cutterhas a large enough diameter to cut well. I believe that in designing a finalmilling machine you need to balance a couple of factors -- how to get thelargest diameter cutter possible yet be able to get your hold-downs asnearthe cutters as possible. Those of you who have designed mills know theproblem, and those of you considering doing so can visualize it. I havesettled upon 2.75 to 3.125 inch diameter cutters. I know that Paul Youngused cutters in the four inch range and that Charlie uses two inch cuttershegrinds out of a pair of Sears shaper cutters (at least he used to). Building a rough mill is a joke it's so easy. And please keep in mind if you are considering building your first finalmillthat you should not get overly concerned about making a mill exactly likesoand so's. Just try to keep things tight and vibration-free. Dust-free helpstoo. Or better yet, start by buying a used small metal mill or metal shaper When you compare the mills of Holbrook, Arend, Dickerson, Jenkins, OldWinston, Talbot, Old Orvis, Kusse, Hardy, Amherst, Paul Young, Heddon,Granger, Summers, or some of the goofier things I have built, it is easy tounderstand that almost any design will work. from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 3 14:20:14 1997 Subject: Re: Different Topic In a message dated 97-12-03 13:50:34 EST, you write: I am under a crunch to finish a bunch of, dare I say it, graphite rods. Anyhow, I am curious what you all think is the best way to attach a piece of bamboo or other material, to a rod turner while you finish wraps. Oh No! Now you have made me admit that I have wrapped a graphiterod, but only one! Honestly!!! The tip section of a graphite rod, since the outside of the femaleferrule usually is wrapped with thread and has to have a coating, I insert an old used flexcoat applicator brush (or a small round dowel)and clamp the rod turner to that. Bamboo rods are easier in thatrespect, you can clamp directly on the male ferrule since it isn't wrapped all the way down. Darryl Hayashida from frankc@webspan.net Wed Dec 3 15:24:35 1997 Subject: Re: Cutter Sharpening CALucker@aol.com wrote: I have built a number of rough and finish mills over the years and oneawfulbeveler. My fancier carbide cutters specially designed and ground for cane Isend outto the local tool grinder. When I use the Asian HHS 2.75 inch cuttersIdon't bother to grind more relief or sharpen. They only cost $42 apair sowhen they get dull I turn them into Christmas Tree ornaments.My router cutters are off the shelf two piece carbide three wingcutters.They have never got used enough to get dull. I don't think a routercutterhas a large enough diameter to cut well. I believe that in designinga finalmilling machine you need to balance a couple of factors -- how to getthelargest diameter cutter possible yet be able to get your hold-downs asnearthe cutters as possible. Those of you who have designed mills knowtheproblem, and those of you considering doing so can visualize it. Ihavesettled upon 2.75 to 3.125 inch diameter cutters. I know that PaulYoungused cutters in the four inch range and that Charlie uses two inchcutters hegrinds out of a pair of Sears shaper cutters (at least he used to). Building a rough mill is a joke it's so easy. And please keep in mind if you are considering building your firstfinal millthat you should not get overly concerned about making a mill exactlylike soand so's. Just try to keep things tight and vibration-free.Dust-free helpstoo. Or better yet, start by buying a used small metal mill or metalshaper When you compare the mills of Holbrook, Arend, Dickerson, Jenkins, Old Winston, Talbot, Old Orvis, Kusse, Hardy, Amherst, Paul Young, Heddon, Granger, Summers, or some of the goofier things I have built, it iseasy tounderstand that almost any design will work. I was just looking out my office window with Milward's drawing in myhand and thinking about making a machine. I have only seen one machinein person. Can you tell me where I can get drawings, photos or info onsome of the other equipment made by people who I am sure are morecreative and talented than me. Frank from flyfisher@rhco.com Wed Dec 3 16:00:02 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Broken Tip I finally got around to rebuilding a broken rod. The break was about 9inches below the tip so I just scarfed on a new tip piece. Thestrangest thing was that the broken tip section was very brittle, itdidn't take much to break it into further pieces. I'm wondering why thesection became so brittle. I don't own the rod so I can't say how it'sbeen stored. Anybody have any ideas? Brian Thomanhttp:\\www.bambooflyrods.com from mathieu@compmore.net Wed Dec 3 16:43:00 1997 RAA19908 for ; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 17:25:56 - "john"via SMTP by mail.compmore.net, id smtpd019904; Wed Dec 3 17:25:521997 Subject: Wayne Cattanach I am wondering if wayne has a web site or does he recomend any place fora new guy to look at how to make rods. If not then where can I buy hisbook is it available at local book stores or do you have to order it.Thanks John McKinnonOttawa, Ontario from nicksco@fia.net Wed Dec 3 18:11:23 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA03542 for Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach John McKinnon wrote: I am wondering if wayne has a web site or does he recomend any placefora new guy to look at how to make rods. If not then where can I buy hisbook is it available at local book stores or do you have to order it.Thanks John McKinnonOttawa, OntarioOne place you can get it is at Anger's Workshop at angersworkshop.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 3 18:13:35 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach John McKinnon wrote: I am wondering if wayne has a web site or does he recomend any placefora new guy to look at how to make rods. If not then where can I buy hisbook is it available at local book stores or do you have to order it.Thanks John McKinnonOttawa, Ontario John, Cabelas carries it and will ship immediately. from rfairfie@cisco.com Wed Dec 3 18:24:31 1997 QAA08191 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, 3 Dec 1997 16:23:59 - Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach Bruce Conner has a FAQ at http://www.cybercom.net/%7Ebconner/rod.html. It contains a lot ofinformationthat is useful to those of us who are beginning. There is a web site that Jerry Foster put together for the bamboo rodbuilding enthusiast at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm There is a tremendous amount of information there! Good luck. Roger from nicksco@fia.net Wed Dec 3 16:15:11 1997Date: Wed, 03 Dec 1997 16:11:13 -0800 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "C. O. Nicks" Subject: Re: Wayne CattanachMIME-Version: 1.0Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN John McKinnon wrote: I am wondering if wayne has a web site or does he recomend any placefora new guy to look at how to make rods. If not then where can I buy hisbook is it available at local book stores or do you have to order it.Thanks John McKinnonOttawa, OntarioOne place you can get it is at Anger's Workshop at angersworkshop.com from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Dec 3 18:44:10 1997 Subject: Re: Classic tapers Here are the first of the promised tapers. I wanted to accompany thesewiththe corresponding stress numbers from the Hexrod program but aol, forsomereason, won't let me on the internet. The first rod is a Granger "Aristocrat" 9 ft. 3 pc. rod. all snake guides are about #1 size and are spaced as follows, from the endofthe tip top: 5 11/16, 12 3/16, 19 3/16, 26 5/8, 34 5/8, 38 7/16, 48 1/2,591/16 and the stripper is 79 1/16. The cork grip is 6 13/16 long with an inside-thread aluminum seat. These tapers are inclusive of a nice, thin coat of varnish, probably no morethan .003' thickness per side. The first number is the "fore-and- aft"dimension in line with the casting plane. The second figure is the mostextreme, whether higher or lower. Just for the sake of completeness. 1" .0785" .09010" .100 / .10715" .118 / .12520" .137 / .13425" .152 / .16230" .173 35" .180 estimated40" .213 / .21045" .22950" .24955" .25760" .265 / .26965" .264 / .26870" .27675" .29280" .31085" .32190" .331 / .33695" .347 / .354 This rod is nicely wrapped with red-tipped gold and no intermediates. Some of the other rods to which I have access are: a Thomas "Favorite", 71/2ft. 2 pc.; a Farlow (Scotland) 7' 3" 2pc.; a Heddon "Bill Stanley #20" 9 ft.3 pc.; a Cross "double -built" 7 ft. 2 pc.; a Thomas Dirigo 9 1/2 ft. salmon rod for 8 wt. line; an 1880 Chas. Orvis 10 ft. 3 pc.; an old rod from VonLengerke (sp.?) & Detmold's Chicago, probably by Thomas around 1900, 8ft. 3pc. and even a 15 ft. greenheart rod. If anybody is particularly interested in any of these pieces, let meknow-on- or-off list and I'll give it priority. Tomorrow I'll transmit the tapers (and some nifty hardware details) for a13ft. E. Gale Spey rod. I swear I don't know how young folks can stare at thisthing for hours at a time. Gives me a thirst like a water buffalo! Davy from RckyMtKane@aol.com Wed Dec 3 19:27:37 1997 Subject: New website To all interestedCheck out this website ( under construction ) www.fly- fish.com/joea.html from sats@gte.net Wed Dec 3 20:33:02 1997 Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? I have never had the pleasure? of fishing with a graphite or glasspole, so I might not understand what the arguement is about. I thoughtthat this list was about BAMBOO! Nope the list is Rodmakers. It's just that the majority of poster build,repair, or restore Bamboo. Reel seats, grips, guides and tiptops are all standards on almost any rodyoubuild. Common regardless of the blank material. However, you can't do much to alter the action of a glass or graphite blank.Not without running the risk of real damage. And most builders don't maketheirown glass or graphite blanks. What you order is what you get. If you and Iorder the same blank, we're going to have very similar rods. (maybe thesnakeswill be at different places, and the stripper will be someplace else, thereelseat a different material and the grip a different shape. But it'll still bealmost the same action.) Bamboo is different. You can start almost from scratch. (Bamboo rodbuildersdon't usually cut their own cain out of the Chinese countryside.) Fromthereyou can do almost anything you want. There are a limitless number oftapersout there. One, two, three piece or more? No problem. Nodless, or fivesided?Go for it. There's even room for people like me, who try to producefishablerods out of the scraps left over from other peoples' disasters. So most of the discussion on this list is Bamboo. don'tmind fishing graphite, if that's what kind of day it is... Back to my Deflection graphing... Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Wed Dec 3 20:33:10 1997 Subject: Re: Classic tapers Here are the first of the promised tapers. Good Job. This one goes in my "Keep" file for sure. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Wed Dec 3 20:33:12 1997 Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) Doug, 1. Snob appeal is really irrelevant to the business of rod making. Thosewho make rods for sale need customers. Perhaps the Medici bought theworksof Michelangelo because of the snob appeal. ... I was reading _The Earth is Enough_ by Harry Middleton, and just happenedtocome across this passage: "Albert and Emerson owned many fly rods during their lifetimes, butadmired noneso much as the bamboo rod , which was the rod of their youth. It was theonlyrod they truly trusted, a rod not yet burdened with the false reputation ofbeing a flimsy and expensive artifact, a plaything for the rich, somethingtocollect rather then use..."...there were new rods appearing, made of fiberglass, fast rods, powerfulrods.Albert tried one not long before he died... The rod was nine feet long andthrewa 6-weight forward line. ...he wiggled it then cast the line through theentirelength of the store and into the street beyond. "I just don't feel it," hesaid... "...I nudger the old man and ask, 'What don't you feel, Albert?'"'Trout,' said Albert abruptly, a tinge of disappointment in his voice..." (_The Earth is Enough_ by Harry Middleton, copyright 1989, by HarryMiddleton,published by Pruett Publishing Company, 1996) It would seem, that from the outside looking in, Snob would be a worldthat somepeople would apply to the owner of a Bamboo rod. (I'd guess the averagenewbamboo rod would cost more then the average new graphite rod. I'd alsoguessthat the average Used Bamboo rod would cost as much or more then theaverageused Graphite rod.) But according to Harry M. Albert and Emerson wereanythingbut snobs. They were trout bums. I tend to like the action of a Bamboo rod, though some are a mite on theheavyside. I also like SOME glass rods. I own and cast some graphite rods, butasmy collection of Bamboo has increased, I use them less and less. 2. When the value of some works is driven up beyond all practicality,alternatives usually emerge. You can get a nice Granger or EugeneEdwards castas well as a $1,900 Winston. The Wilsons were Bamboo rods. But I tend to agree with you. Casting welliswhat it's about. I believe good Bamboo casts better then anything else,thoughI haven't cast enough really good glass to rule them out. And Middleton continues:"..he had expected that I would grasp the rods failings as surely as he had.'That subtle finesse that will put a No. 18 dry fly on a quarter at fortyfeet.This rod is all right, I suppose. It's got power, but power alone won'tcatchtrout. I'll stay with bamboo. It has grace, a soothing touch.'" Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 3 20:51:39 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Two Apologies Wot's a Loomis ? I know a sage is a wise man, but a loomis? :-) from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 3 20:52:03 1997 Subject: Re: Apologies for Waynes' apology Tsk. Tsk! from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 3 21:21:04 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Bats And it's great when you reach down in the dark to get the "moss" off yourline and it wiggles and screams at you-keeps the adrenalin pumpin'. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Dec 3 21:21:11 1997 Subject: Re: Re: New magazine - final edition Virginia and Montana-life's tuff, but someone has to do it,Hank. from KDLoup@aol.com Wed Dec 3 22:09:30 1997 Subject: Re: Finishing methods / Classic tapers Davy,I am using Minwax Helmsman Spar Urethane for the blank finish andVarthane 90 Clear Gloss for the wraps. I dip the blank three times withtheHelmsman. When the blank has dried for about 3 days post the lastdipping, Iwrap and apply five coats of Varthane to the silk as the rod turns. I don'tuse color preserver. The Varthane seems to retain the color of the silk(darkens less) better than the other methods I have tried. I played aroundwith Behr Super Spar, Behr Clear Lac, Zinsser Bulls Eye Shellac, and theHelmsman on silk wrapped on a wooden dowel. I prefer the Varthane, butthatis only a personal preference. Each finish has unique qualities. You mayprefer a different method. The best bet is to try a few finishes so thatyoucan decide for yourself. Oh, after spending money on various spools ofsilk,I learned that I should buy the lighter shades of any color I like. Most ofthe darker shades I purchased turn almost black, but I haven't tried thosespools with Varthane. I hope this helps. Kurt Loup from chuckt@jetlink.net Wed Dec 3 22:32:05 1997 Subject: Hot or Cold rolled steel I what to make my own planning forms, but I have been told that I can used hot rolled steel? What is the difference in hot or cold in the use of making planning forms? from richjez@enteract.com Wed Dec 3 22:40:06 1997 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Kiwi Could one of the Kiwi's contact me off the list. A friends daughter hasmoved to Auckland and needs an internet provider.To the list: Sorry for use of bandwithRich Jezioro from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Wed Dec 3 23:46:43 1997 Subject: Re: Hot or Cold rolled steel Part of the difference between cold and hot rolled steel is the texture ofskin of the steel. What I mean is that hot rolled steel has a rough finish,where as cold rolled steel is smooth. There are a lot of other microscopic differences also, which have to dowithworkability. Hot rolled is harder to machine than cold rolled. This is anadvantage, but because it is easier to work, it also bends easier. (Refer tothe Machinery's Handbook or the ASTM's for greater specifics.) To cut to the chase, when you build hand planing forms, they are built withcold rolled steel. charles tello wrote: I what to make my own planning forms, but I have been told that I canused hot rolled steel? What is the difference in hot or cold in the useof making planning forms? from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Dec 4 02:10:23 1997 Subject: Please Read I don't intend to relives the posts of the past few days. As has beenpointed out the same magic that allows us to be so connected can alsoturn andoccassionally bite us in the butt. What you have seen unfold is amisunderstanding of a misunderstanding. Being human I have a dislike forthosethat flaunt something in your face. Unfortunately our sport is where thattypeof thing happens - perhaps too often. What I was trying to show was this -ifthe only motive for having something was to add to the antlers (thosethingsused only for display)of life - then here is the foolishness of that. But ifyou read what I wrote without knowing the thread - because I didn'treferenceit - I would appear to be the one doing the flaunting. In having this pointedout to me I felt that I should apologize - because if one saw it differentlythan what it was meant to be then others did was well. And I didn't do ittoput anyone on the spot. I have real respect for those that will act as aconscience and let you know when they think you have done somethingwrong -and it was done in a very correct manner. I hope we all go on and learnfromthe past. A friend (and fellow list member) once used the illustration oftherod making community as that of being a family - misunderstandingshappen -and as in a family it needs to get patched up so that life goes on.Today I add a new picture to my wall - it's of Glen Brackett fishingwith Bruce riding along on his shoulders - I've had those times with bothourkids. The important thing in life isn't what material a fly rod is makefrom.As Sam says - it's not about having the toys - it's about wearing them outwith your close friends and family. Wayne from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Dec 4 02:15:26 1997 Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:15:19 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Bats On Wed, 3 Dec 1997 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: And it's great when you reach down in the dark to get the "moss" off yourline and it wiggles and screams at you-keeps the adrenalin pumpin'. All this talk of bats is becoming very Hunter S Thompson (Fear and Loathing in Los Vegas). /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Dec 4 02:22:19 1997 Subject: Re: Classic tapers/Spey rod OK, here goes. 13' 1 1/2" Spey rod, E. Gale & Sons, Barnstaple Tapers are inclusive of a fairly heavy coating of varnish, evidently applied get the bare bamboo. Guiides are all Mildrum rings with agateen at the tip top and stripper.Intermediates are about 6-8 turns spaced variably from 1/4 inch at thetipto 7/16 at the butt. All wraps on this rod are red. Very pretty. Guides first; spacing from end of tip is left column, I.D.s of the rings areto the right. I'm afraid I don't know the corresponding guide numbersoffhand. Tip .1706 13/16" .16714 1/2 .20522 5/8 .20531 5/8 .20543" .23255 5/8 .28867 3/8 .28880 3/8 .28893 5/8 .360108 1/2 .360121 1/2 .350 stripper Now the tapers, incl. varnish: I started out taking all three measurements,but they were surprisingly uniform so I just took the "fore- an-aft" ones. 5 .15410 .18015 .21220 .21825 .23330 .25535 .27440 .28245 .29350 ferrule55 .32560 .34565 .37370 .39575 .41280 .42585 .44890 .45495 .463100 .480105 ferrule110 .482115 .490120 .508125 .538130 .543 The handle is 25" long divided up as follows: 1/2" winding check; 11 1/8"fwd. cork, cigar shaped; 4 3/4" reel seat; 6 1/4" aft cork, straight; 1 1/2"brass collar and a 1" oval rubber butt. The fittings on this rod are fairly massive (I wonder what it weighs!) andthe ferrules are locking. At the top of the lower (female) section is a 11/2 turn helix which engages a hook on the male unit and butts against itwhen the sections index. I'll draw them up pretty and scan them, so ifanybody is interested let me know and I'll geez them to you. Guess that's about it. I hope somebody builds one, as I'd love to watch youcast it! Peace and DonovanD Riggs from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Dec 4 06:01:53 1997 Subject: Re: Two Apologies FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Wot's a Loomis ? I know a sage is a wise man, but a loomis? :-) a loom is what you weave on. from richjez@enteract.com Thu Dec 4 06:33:29 1997 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Bats I was thinking th esame thing. I wasn't sure the list would understand.There was someone from England in a book store here looking for Dr.Thompson's work. Apparentlly it is banned there.Guess you have different lawsdown under.Rich Jezioro All this talk of bats is becoming very Hunter S Thompson (Fear and Loathing in Los Vegas). /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Thu Dec 4 07:06:54 1997 (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 04 Dec 97 08:06:04 EST Subject: Re: Hot or Cold rolled steel I am not a metalurgist nor a professional metal worker, but: I have forms made with hot rolled steel. I was told by the owner ofa scrap yard that there was no composition difference between hot andcold.The difference is that the cold has better (ie., more consistent initial)surface dimensions because it is formed (rolled) when cold and thereforedoes not contract unevenly when it cools. My forms work well. My only observation is that the crs seems to begummier when you work with it than HRS--ie., it clogs in the file and thefilings "chunk up" and can cut gouges in the surface being worked. Cleaningthe file is the solution to a better final finish. But, I have littleexperience with HRS, so I don't really know how this compares. --Mark Freed At 08:22 PM 12/3/97 -0800, you wrote:I what to make my own planning forms, but I have been told that I canused hot rolled steel? What is the difference in hot or cold in the useof making planning forms? from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Dec 4 07:37:52 1997 Subject: Re: Different Topic At 09:10 03/12/97 +0000, you wrote:I am under a crunch to finish a bunch of, dare I say it, graphite rods. Anyhow, I am curious what you all think is the best way to attach a piece of bamboo or other material, to a rod turner while you finish wraps. Jon, Don't know if there is a best way to attach rods to a turner but here iswhat I do.I built my turner c/w 1/4" NC threads so that I could attach devices to theoutput shafts. The turner is capable of turning 4 rod sectionssimultaneously. [3 piece c/w 2 tips.] I built a number of 1/2" long alum. pieces that were bored 1/4" NC on oneend and had a tit left on the other end about 1/2" long. On each of thetit's I slid a piece of latex hose about 1" long. I slid one of thoseplastic connectors that the electrical guys use to support wiring onto thejoint [ latex/alum.] and tightened. The latex is slid over the tip top orferrule. The latex has enough "give" that alignment is not a issue as longas it is somewhat square. The latex is strong enough that only one supportis needed along the rod shaft. The support is made from 3/4" plywood c/wfelted slots where the rod rolls. I got the latex hoses from a local shop that sells things to the modelairplane guys. [ I think they use it for gas lines]. The hoses are 3 sizes.About a foot of each gave me all the sizes/types I'll ever use. Hope this helps, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Dec 4 07:47:57 1997 Subject: Fires in Australia Tony, See on the news that there are fires everywhere in Australia. Are youeffected by them? Don from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Dec 4 08:25:51 1997 Subject: Re: Hot or Cold rolled steel In a message dated 12/4/97 6:08:12 AM, you wrote: Conventional wisdom suggests the use of hot rolled bars, based on the factthat there is less stress in the metal, and therefore less chance of thebarswarping as you work on them and remove metal. The downside is that thetolerances are not as good as in cold rolled bars, and you will have to do alot more filing to bring everything into square. Personally, I would opt forthe cold rolled. I don't think we remove enough metal in the process tocausea severe warping problem, and I would go for the better tolerances. Buythebest bars you can find, and check them for straightness, if you can. from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Thu Dec 4 08:47:19 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: burnishing scraper blades Stupid question from a dense, slow-witted, new rod builder:I believe that Wayne has stated that he re-sharpens his Lie-Neilsenscraperblade to the same angle as his plane blades, primarily for convenience.Question: Do those of you using the Lie-Neilsen scraper plane burnish theblade after sharpening and prior to use? Thanks in advance. from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Thu Dec 4 09:38:08 1997 (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 04 Dec 97 10:37:14 EST Subject: Re: burnishing scraper blades Jerry, I also sharpen the scraper blade to the same angle as my plane baldeso that I don't have to adjust the balde holder each time I switch betweenthe two. I do not burnish the scraper balde. Instead I sharpen it the sameway I sharpen the blade. It gives it plenty of edge to remove material.I'm also curious about the durability of a burnished edge. Ordinarily, I amconcerned to prevent the plane balde edge from "rolling over". And I am(perhaps naively) assuming that a brunished edge would roll back in theother direction with the same results. One further consideration: I don't know how poeple hold cabnitscrapers, but do you think the forward tilt of the scraper would make theburnished edge pointless? --Mark Freed At 09:43 AM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote:Stupid question from a dense, slow-witted, new rod builder:I believe that Wayne has stated that he re-sharpens his Lie-Neilsenscraperblade to the same angle as his plane blades, primarily for convenience.Question: Do those of you using the Lie-Neilsen scraper plane burnish theblade after sharpening and prior to use? Thanks in advance. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Dec 4 09:46:53 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Graphite? what's that? this list is about bamboo rod making not plastic poles!! ----------From: sats@gte.net[SMTP:sats@gte.net] Sent: Wednesday, December 03, 1997 6:08 PM Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? I have never had the pleasure? of fishing with a graphite or glasspole, so I might not understand what the arguement is about. Ithoughtthat this list was about BAMBOO! Nope the list is Rodmakers. It's just that the majority of posterbuild,repair, or restore Bamboo. Reel seats, grips, guides and tiptops are all standards on almost anyrod youbuild. Common regardless of the blank material. However, you can't do much to alter the action of a glass or graphiteblank.Not without running the risk of real damage. And most builders don'tmake theirown glass or graphite blanks. What you order is what you get. Ifyou and Iorder the same blank, we're going to have very similar rods. (maybethe snakeswill be at different places, and the stripper will be someplace else,the reelseat a different material and the grip a different shape. But it'llstill bealmost the same action.) Bamboo is different. You can start almost from scratch. (Bamboo rodbuildersdon't usually cut their own cain out of the Chinese countryside.) from thereyou can do almost anything you want. There are a limitless number oftapersout there. One, two, three piece or more? No problem. Nodless, orfive sided?Go for it. There's even room for people like me, who try to producefishablerods out of the scraps left over from other peoples' disasters. So most of the discussion on this list is Bamboo. rod. I don'tmind fishing graphite, if that's what kind of day it is... Back to my Deflection graphing... Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Dec 4 09:57:01 1997 Subject: Re: Hot or Cold rolled steel just a quick tip- If you have trouble with files loading up and making your cuts uneven, seeifyou can find a European file. They are either handmade or cut with randomblows so they tend not to accumulate filings during a cut. Most of theyuppie woodworker stores carry them, but I've found Portuguese ones indiscount tool warehouse type stores and local "buy and sell" shops. Good luckDavy from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Dec 4 10:03:58 1997 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id QAA13088 for; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:14:07 GMT Subject: Re: burnishing scraper blades mark m. freed wrote: Jerry, I also sharpen the scraper blade to the same angle as my planebaldeso that I don't have to adjust the balde holder each time I switchbetweenthe two. I do not burnish the scraper balde. Instead I sharpen it thesameway I sharpen the blade. It gives it plenty of edge to remove material.I'm also curious about the durability of a burnished edge. Ordinarily, Iamconcerned to prevent the plane balde edge from "rolling over". And I am(perhaps naively) assuming that a brunished edge would roll back in theother direction with the same results. One further consideration: I don't know how poeple hold cabnitscrapers, but do you think the forward tilt of the scraper would make theburnished edge pointless? A scraping plane sets the angle of the edge to the correct position forscraping. If you were to burnish this edge you would end up with no edgehitting the material you wanted to scrape. A cabinet makers scraper isflexedand the edge set on the material by hand ( not a pre-fixed position ).BryantC. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Dec 4 10:13:52 1997 ; Thu, 4 Dec 1997 16:13:54 GMT Subject: Re: Different Topic At 06:58 04/12/97, you wrote:At 09:10 03/12/97 +0000, you wrote:I am under a crunch to finish a bunch of, dare I say it, graphite rods. Anyhow, I am curious what you all think is the best way to attach a piece of bamboo or other material, to a rod turner while you finish wraps. Jon, Don't know if there is a best way to attach rods to a turner but here iswhat I do.I built my turner c/w 1/4" NC threads so that I could attach devices totheoutput shafts. The turner is capable of turning 4 rod sectionssimultaneously. [3 piece c/w 2 tips.] I built a number of 1/2" long alum. pieces that were bored 1/4" NC on oneend and had a tit left on the other end about 1/2" long. On each of thetit's I slid a piece of latex hose about 1" long. I slid one of thoseplastic connectors that the electrical guys use to support wiring onto thejoint [ latex/alum.] and tightened. The latex is slid over the tip top orferrule. The latex has enough "give" that alignment is not a issue as longas it is somewhat square. The latex is strong enough that only onesupportis needed along the rod shaft. The support is made from 3/4" plywood c/wfelted slots where the rod rolls. I got the latex hoses from a local shop that sells things to the modelairplane guys. [ I think they use it for gas lines]. The hoses are 3 sizes.About a foot of each gave me all the sizes/types I'll ever use. Hope this helps, Don This sounds like the definitive setup Don. Any chance of a photograph sentas an attachment, that might better show the beast in living colour (that'scolor to you). I was going to make an enclosed cabinet with a simple chain drive linkingfour turners to the single motor, but my wife vitoed its installation in thekitchen. Women! eh? I have to make do with a portable turner witha single(Jann's) clamp. It works well enough, but the thought of spinning threesections at once appeals. Is anyone other than me using Epifanes sponge 'brushes' to apply varnish?I'm getting some superb results. Maybe not up to dipping standard, but I'mhappy enough. I keep the cut varnish warm in a warn water bath. Thatworkswell too. Has anyone tried photographers thermostatically controlled hotbeds to maintain varnish temperature? John Cooper (England) from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Thu Dec 4 10:37:53 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: Re: burnishing scraper blades Gosh, Mark. I really don't know. I, too, sharpen my scraper blade identicalto my planing blade (took a while to do it the first time, though!) Itseems to work fine unburnished. However, I admit to burnishing myscraperblade last night and did not like to results! So tonight I resharpen andhope for the best. I was asking because all of my wood-working friends shuddered at thethought of me using a scraper plane without burnishing the blade. Iinterpret from this that they scrape with a rearward slant of the cuttingedge of 3-5 degrees--at least my musical instrument maker friends do.Nowwhen you say forward tilt, are you referring to the top of the blade or thebase of the blade, i.e. is the cutting edge slanted towards the front (??)or is the cutting edge slanted to the rear of the plane? I just assumedthat the cutting edge was slanted rearward. Have I been doing it wrong inmy practice session all this time? At 09:38 AM 12/4/97 -0600, you wrote:Jerry, I also sharpen the scraper blade to the same angle as my plane baldeso that I don't have to adjust the balde holder each time I switch betweenthe two. I do not burnish the scraper balde. Instead I sharpen it the sameway I sharpen the blade. It gives it plenty of edge to remove material.I'm also curious about the durability of a burnished edge. Ordinarily, I amconcerned to prevent the plane balde edge from "rolling over". And I am(perhaps naively) assuming that a brunished edge would roll back in theother direction with the same results. One further consideration: I don't know how poeple hold cabnitscrapers, but do you think the forward tilt of the scraper would make theburnished edge pointless? --Mark Freed At 09:43 AM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote:Stupid question from a dense, slow-witted, new rod builder:I believe that Wayne has stated that he re-sharpens his Lie-Neilsenscraperblade to the same angle as his plane blades, primarily for convenience.Question: Do those of you using the Lie-Neilsen scraper plane burnish theblade after sharpening and prior to use? Thanks in advance. Jerry Snidere-mail: jerry.snider@uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Thu Dec 4 10:47:35 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, A scraping plane sets the angle of the edge to the correct position forscraping. If you were to burnish this edge you would end up with no edgehitting the material you wanted to scrape. A cabinet makers scraper isflexedand the edge set on the material by hand ( not a pre-fixed position ).BryantC. I have used my scraper plane as all of you have suggested--i.e. noburnishing. However, in doing some web browsing the other day, I ranacrossinstructions re sharpening scraper blades, INCLUDING A RECOMMENDATIONTHATEVEN SCRAPER PLANE BLADES BE BURNISHED. So, just thought I would ask,simply to be certain. Thanks for the responses. Admittedly, I am a tads-l-o-w, but now I think that I get it--NO BURNISHING! : >) Jerry Snidere-mail: jerry.snider@uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Dec 4 10:52:23 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: burnishing scraper blades If you burnish the edge of a cabinet scraper you have to tilt if forwardto get it to cut correctly, the burnished edge effectively turns thescraper into a type of plane blade. I used scrappers on a daily basisas a luthier and found it leaves a much smoother finish that sandpaper,after all sand paper is just a bunch of grit glued to paper and leavesscratches-granted the finer the paper the finer the scratches but theyare scratches none the less. ----------From: mark m. freed[SMTP:3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu] Sent: Thursday, December 04, 1997 7:38 AM Subject: Re: burnishing scraper blades Jerry, I also sharpen the scraper blade to the same angle as my planebaldeso that I don't have to adjust the balde holder each time I switchbetweenthe two. I do not burnish the scraper balde. Instead I sharpen itthe sameway I sharpen the blade. It gives it plenty of edge to removematerial.I'm also curious about the durability of a burnished edge.Ordinarily, I amconcerned to prevent the plane balde edge from "rolling over". And Iam(perhaps naively) assuming that a brunished edge would roll back intheother direction with the same results. One further consideration: I don't know how poeple holdcabnitscrapers, but do you think the forward tilt of the scraper would maketheburnished edge pointless? --Mark Freed At 09:43 AM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote:Stupid question from a dense, slow-witted, new rod builder:I believe that Wayne has stated that he re-sharpens his Lie-Neilsenscraperblade to the same angle as his plane blades, primarily forconvenience.Question: Do those of you using the Lie-Neilsen scraper plane burnishtheblade after sharpening and prior to use? Thanks in advance. from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Dec 4 11:52:52 1997 Subject: Re: Re: burnishing scraper blades In a message dated 12/4/97 4:59:44 PM, you wrote: Mark - The cabinet scraper is also held with a slight forward tilt. Thesmallburr produced by burnishing is at a slight angle also. This produces thecorrect cutting angle. I don't know whether burnishing the L/N blade isuseful. I don't do it. from rhd360@maine.maine.edu Thu Dec 4 12:28:48 1997 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 04 Dec 97 13:27:51 EST Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) Nice passage Terry. Harry Middleton is my all time favorite author; hisbooks evoke the spirit of fly fishing like no other. "The Earth..." wouldbe Pulitzer Prize class had he a decent editor. In his later books, hementions using Sweetwater Rods by George Maurer mostly in Colo., and ofmeeting some wonderfully querky characters there. --Bob from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Dec 4 12:44:02 1997 Subject: Re:Rod Turners + Things John wrote: This sounds like the definitive setup Don. Any chance of a photograph sentas an attachment, that might better show the beast in living colour(that'scolor to you). And Don responds, Sorry John, no photograph available. Never thought about the system much- not a revelation on rod building like some of the things posted. Seemedlike the thing that most of us do offhanded without thinking that othersmay find it interesting. Sorry. I was going to make an enclosed cabinet with a simple chain drive linkingfour turners to the single motor, John, Rather than use a chain drive, I used "O" rings. If the tension ismaintained, they turn the rods without sweat. Had to replace one once -cost about $ 0.40. And it sure makes fitting the thing up a lot simpler.The pulleys for the "O' rings are made of alum. c/w the shafting to carrythe bearings. The bearing are made of Delrin and are snug fit into the boxholding them. The bearings were drilled for the shaft OD after fitting intothe box. Perhaps I'll see if Ron Barch need another article for thePlanning Form. Seemed like a simple thing building a turner that I neverthought much about sending one in. I'll see if I have time this winter toget one done - still got a lot of rods to do prior to March 1. but my wife vitoed its installation in thekitchen. Women! eh? I have to make do with a portable turner witha single(Jann's) clamp. It works well enough, but the thought of spinning threesections at once appeals. John, The turner I use is portable. Sets on top of the rod oven when not used -the cats have a blanket on top of that they sleep on when I'm not using theoven or turner. regards, Don from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Thu Dec 4 14:11:29 1997 ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Planing Form price increase/offer Frank O. Armbruster wrote: Announcement-Announcement-Announcement-Hey, guys, don't flame, I asked permission from the list guy to post this,and he said "okay."If you read THE PLANING FORM newsletter, you've probably noticed thattheprice has gone up on the finish-planing form from Colorado Bootstrap.It'll be $325 plus shipping and handling ($25 in the US), for a total of$350.BUT, if you send a copy of this message along with your order, I'llstill honor the old price of $300.00, includes free shipping in thecontiguous US for anyone who is a member of this newsgroup. So youguyswho are lurking out there, here's a chance to save a little change. Printthis, and then when you decide to order, include a copy of this lettterwith your order. The offer is good until Dec. 31, 1997. Frank in Colorado .o..888. F.O. (Frank) Armbruster.8"888. Colorado Boostrap, Inc..8' `888. bootstrap@earthlink.net.88ooo8888. http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap.8' `888. Tel: (303)745-1353 FAX: (303)751-8626o88o o8888o"It ain't tha things we don't know what gets us inta trouble,it's tha things we know that ain't so! -Artemus Ward -- FRANK: I do want to order a set of finishing forms from you. Also, a a set of roughforms. What would be the total cost for both forms. Please let me knowandI'll either send you a check or give a credit card #. Don't know if you remember --- I had tried to get several sets of'seconds'froms for myself and several friends earlier on this year ...... Thanks.... FRED~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732- 2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 4 14:47:41 1997 Subject: Re: burnishing scraper blades In a message dated 97-12-04 15:22:17 EST, you write: Mark - The cabinet scraper is also held with a slight forward tilt. The smallburr produced by burnishing is at a slight angle also. This produces thecorrect cutting angle. I don't know whether burnishing the L/N blade isuseful. I don't do it. I tried it (burnishing my L-N blade). Makes it a very aggressive cutter,almost like a plane. It was easier to touch up the edge, all you hadto do was burnish it again, took a couple minutes. I don't do it anymore,because the shavings are a lot thinner without burnishing it, and bythe time I'm using my L-N scraper I'm trying to get down to the .001tolerances. Darryl Hayashida from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Thu Dec 4 15:27:25 1997 (IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 04 Dec 97 16:26:03 EST Subject: Re: burnishing scraper blades Jerry, it sounds as though you have the blade positioned correctly. --Mark Freed At 11:34 AM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote:Gosh, Mark. I really don't know. I, too, sharpen my scraper blade identicalto my planing blade (took a while to do it the first time, though!) Itseems to work fine unburnished. However, I admit to burnishing myscraperblade last night and did not like to results! So tonight I resharpen andhope for the best.I was asking because all of my wood- working friends shuddered at thethought of me using a scraper plane without burnishing the blade. Iinterpret from this that they scrape with a rearward slant of the cuttingedge of 3-5 degrees--at least my musical instrument maker friends do.Nowwhen you say forward tilt, are you referring to the top of the blade or thebase of the blade, i.e. is the cutting edge slanted towards the front (??)or is the cutting edge slanted to the rear of the plane? I just assumedthat the cutting edge was slanted rearward. Have I been doing it wrong inmy practice session all this time? At 09:38 AM 12/4/97 -0600, you wrote:Jerry, I also sharpen the scraper blade to the same angle as my planebaldeso that I don't have to adjust the balde holder each time I switchbetweenthe two. I do not burnish the scraper balde. Instead I sharpen it thesameway I sharpen the blade. It gives it plenty of edge to remove material.I'm also curious about the durability of a burnished edge. Ordinarily, Iamconcerned to prevent the plane balde edge from "rolling over". And I am(perhaps naively) assuming that a brunished edge would roll back in theother direction with the same results. One further consideration: I don't know how poeple hold cabnitscrapers, but do you think the forward tilt of the scraper would maketheburnished edge pointless? --Mark Freed At 09:43 AM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote:Stupid question from a dense, slow-witted, new rod builder:I believe that Wayne has stated that he re-sharpens his Lie-Neilsenscraperblade to the same angle as his plane blades, primarily for convenience.Question: Do those of you using the Lie-Neilsen scraper plane burnishtheblade after sharpening and prior to use? Thanks in advance. Jerry Snidere-mail: jerry.snider@uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from jczimny@dol.net Thu Dec 4 15:46:51 1997 Subject: Re: Hot or Cold rolled steel charles tello wrote: I what to make my own planning forms, but I have been told that I canused hot rolled steel? What is the difference in hot or cold in the useof making planning forms?Hot rolled will tend to have much less internal stress than cold rolled.Cold rolled tends to do a dimensional dance after the skin is cut off.John Zimny from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Dec 4 16:51:10 1997 Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:51:01 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: burnishing scraper blades On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Jerry Snider wrote: Stupid question from a dense, slow-witted, new rod builder:I believe that Wayne has stated that he re-sharpens his Lie-Neilsenscraperblade to the same angle as his plane blades, primarily for convenience.Question: Do those of you using the Lie-Neilsen scraper plane burnish theblade after sharpening and prior to use? Thanks in advance. The iron on an LN scraper is quite thick, about as thick as a wooden plane iron and only needs sharpening. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Dec 4 16:58:05 1997 Fri, 5 Dec 1997 06:57:58 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: burnishing scraper blades Burnishing a cabinet scraper is required in order to give it a hook that allows you to remove thin curls from what ever you are scraping. When you start just scraping dust from the work it's time to resharpen the cabinet scraper and re burninsh. You can use a scraper in any direction but use the hook side in the direction of scrape.When you burnish you should hold the scraper in a vise and run a burnisher or gouge with quite a lot of downward presure across the top edge of the scraper tilting slightly to one side. I've found old Japaneese saw blades to make good scrapers. Tony On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, mark m. freed wrote: Jerry, I also sharpen the scraper blade to the same angle as my planebaldeso that I don't have to adjust the balde holder each time I switchbetweenthe two. I do not burnish the scraper balde. Instead I sharpen it thesameway I sharpen the blade. It gives it plenty of edge to remove material.I'm also curious about the durability of a burnished edge. Ordinarily, Iamconcerned to prevent the plane balde edge from "rolling over". And I am(perhaps naively) assuming that a brunished edge would roll back in theother direction with the same results. One further consideration: I don't know how poeple hold cabnitscrapers, but do you think the forward tilt of the scraper would make theburnished edge pointless? --Mark Freed At 09:43 AM 12/4/97 -0500, you wrote:Stupid question from a dense, slow-witted, new rod builder:I believe that Wayne has stated that he re-sharpens his Lie-Neilsenscraperblade to the same angle as his plane blades, primarily for convenience.Question: Do those of you using the Lie-Neilsen scraper plane burnishtheblade after sharpening and prior to use? Thanks in advance. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Dec 4 17:51:25 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19400 for Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) Terry, I have always avoided reading Harry Middleton because of his dark side.After reading yourpost, I must say I am compelled to read him. BTW: My comment about the Winston was with reference to the high costofbamboo rods, a complaint I was trying to address. Regards,-Doug Easton At 02:08 AM 12/4/97 GMT, you wrote:Doug, 1. Snob appeal is really irrelevant to the business of rod making. Thosewho make rods for sale need customers. Perhaps the Medici bought theworksof Michelangelo because of the snob appeal. ... I was reading _The Earth is Enough_ by Harry Middleton, and justhappened tocome across this passage: "Albert and Emerson owned many fly rods during their lifetimes, butadmired noneso much as the bamboo rod , which was the rod of their youth. It was theonlyrod they truly trusted, a rod not yet burdened with the false reputation ofbeing a flimsy and expensive artifact, a plaything for the rich, somethingtocollect rather then use..."...there were new rods appearing, made of fiberglass, fast rods, powerfulrods.Albert tried one not long before he died... The rod was nine feet long andthrewa 6-weight forward line. ...he wiggled it then cast the line through theentirelength of the store and into the street beyond. "I just don't feel it," hesaid... "...I nudger the old man and ask, 'What don't you feel, Albert?'"'Trout,' said Albert abruptly, a tinge of disappointment in his voice..." (_The Earth is Enough_ by Harry Middleton, copyright 1989, by HarryMiddleton,published by Pruett Publishing Company, 1996) It would seem, that from the outside looking in, Snob would be a worldthat somepeople would apply to the owner of a Bamboo rod. (I'd guess the averagenewbamboo rod would cost more then the average new graphite rod. I'd alsoguessthat the average Used Bamboo rod would cost as much or more then theaverageused Graphite rod.) But according to Harry M. Albert and Emerson wereanythingbut snobs. They were trout bums. I tend to like the action of a Bamboo rod, though some are a mite on theheavyside. I also like SOME glass rods. I own and cast some graphite rods,but asmy collection of Bamboo has increased, I use them less and less. 2. When the value of some works is driven up beyond all practicality,alternatives usually emerge. You can get a nice Granger or EugeneEdwards castas well as a $1,900 Winston. The Wilsons were Bamboo rods. But I tend to agree with you. Castingwell iswhat it's about. I believe good Bamboo casts better then anything else,thoughI haven't cast enough really good glass to rule them out. And Middleton continues:"..he had expected that I would grasp the rods failings as surely as he had.'That subtle finesse that will put a No. 18 dry fly on a quarter at fortyfeet.This rod is all right, I suppose. It's got power, but power alone won'tcatchtrout. I'll stay with bamboo. It has grace, a soothing touch.'" Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from sats@gte.net Thu Dec 4 18:14:08 1997 Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? this list is about bamboo rod making not plastic poles!! Er... If that's the case, shouldn't we change the name of the list tobamboo.rodmakers? Seriously, I seem to remember some "plastic" builders dropping by fromtime totime. I'd bet a few of them stuck around to see what Bamboo was allabout. I don't remember anyone running them off or banishing them for any theirposts. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from jsbond@inforamp.net Thu Dec 4 18:52:25 1997 Subject: Re: Two Apologies I think it's for weaving blankets or maybe just holding up tomato plants JB At 21:51 03/12/97 -0500, you wrote:Wot's a Loomis ? I know a sage is a wise man, but a loomis? :-) James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from mrj@seanet.com Thu Dec 4 19:07:10 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA05877 for Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? One could argue that to have the name "bamboo rodmakers" would beredunduntas you can only truly assemble not make, graphite or fiberglass rods.(The above is written with apologies to the makers of glass and graphitewhoactually "roll their own". I'm sure they are out there.) this list is about bamboo rod making not plastic poles!! Er... If that's the case, shouldn't we change the name of the list tobamboo.rodmakers?Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Dec 4 20:03:36 1997 Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? At 23:50 04/12/97 GMT, somebody wrote [and I can't remember who]:this list is about bamboo rod making not plastic poles!! Er... If that's the case, shouldn't we change the name of the list tobamboo.rodmakers? Seriously, I seem to remember some "plastic" builders dropping by fromtime totime. I'd bet a few of them stuck around to see what Bamboo was allabout. I don't remember anyone running them off or banishing them for any theirposts. Terry, Couldn't agree with you more - most of us started building tubular rods.Myfirst one was in 1968 - a fiberglass by Fenwick. Still have it - don't fishit at all - but the memories are there. Would seem to be a shame if folksthat are in the transition stage from plastic to cane are driven off. +I've learned more that a few things about parts installation from the"plastic" guys. regards, Don from nicksco@fia.net Thu Dec 4 23:48:03 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA06717 for Subject: Tony Young I'm sorry I did not ask you in the last e-mail about the fire in au.They haven't reached you in the Perth area have they? Nicks from maiello@yorku.ca Fri Dec 5 08:30:12 1997 (ea7J/BtcSWs/u5gi0+Wl0g+pSO3/BTYJ@sunspot.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA04191 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? On Thu, 4 Dec 1997, Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote:Er... If that's the case, shouldn't we change the name of the list tobamboo.rodmakers? Or "organic materials rodbuilder"I hope questions about greenheart rods would not be judged inappropriate. But wait a second graphite is made of what?Thats right CARBON.No real difference as far as I see it.Graphite is "bad" because we cant make a rod from it in our basement.Seems like with all this talk about milling machines and mechanicaldevices, the line between our superior material bamboo, and graphite isgetting a bit fuzzy.Buy a rod you can afford, and take a kid fishing.Just my $0.02Mauro from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Fri Dec 5 09:02:22 1997 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri,5 Dec 1997 09:04:16 CST Subject: test test from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Dec 5 09:05:37 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) Robert Milardo wrote: Nice passage Terry. Harry Middleton is my all time favorite author; hisbooks evoke the spirit of fly fishing like no other. "The Earth..." wouldbe Pulitzer Prize class had he a decent editor. In his later books, hementions using Sweetwater Rods by George Maurer mostly in Colo., andofmeeting some wonderfully querky characters there. --Bob I know this isn't a rodmaking comment, but Middleton is one of myfavorites as well. I've only found The Earth Is Enough, The StarlightCreek Angling Society, and Rivers of Memory. Did he write others, andif so, does anyone know where I might get a copy? I know his writing issuddenly VERY collectable. -- Harry Boyd from m.boretti@agonet.it Fri Dec 5 09:11:35 1997 Subject: E-mail addres of The Planing Form. Dear friends,I seek the E-mail addres of The Planing Form, or the E-mail of Mr.RonBarck. Sincerely,Marco Boretti from m.boretti@agonet.it Fri Dec 5 09:20:39 1997 Subject: Connection to Rodmakers site. Dear Friends,It's four days I have many difficult to connected by the Rodmakers site.Can I have information about this problem ?Thanks in advance for the help.Marco from rennyg@ibm.net Fri Dec 5 10:09:58 1997 Subject: Re: Connection to Rodmakers site. Marco, The Rodmakers URL is: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm. It able to connect earlier today without any difficulty. A street address Renny Boretti Marco wrote: Dear Friends,It's four days I have many difficult to connected by the Rodmakers site.Can I have information about this problem ?Thanks in advance for the help.Marco from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Dec 5 10:24:23 1997 Subject: Re: Connection to Rodmakers site. Speaking of the rodmakers site - I've tried to import the Excelspreadsheet software into Quattro Pro. QP can't translate it. So does anyone have a Quattro Pro or Lotus 123 (I think I can importthat) spreadsheet for stress curves? Or maybe have a printout of the Excel spreadsheet? I also can't get the Windows software to load on W95. Any one knows howkeep it from bombing during setup? Thanks all, Don Burns from rfairfie@cisco.com Fri Dec 5 10:24:47 1997 IAA15781 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:24:08 - Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? Right on, Don. I built my first 'plastic' rod in 1965, also a Fenwick. I builtfiberglass and graphite for over 30 years before I discovered bamboo, andall theassembly techniques that I use were learned during those years. Roger from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Dec 4 18:09:14 1997Date: Thu, 04 Dec 1997 19:23:23 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Don Andersen Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that?Mime-Version: 1.0X-Temp-From: Don M. Anderson X-Sender: dmanders@mail.ccinet.ab.caX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN At 23:50 04/12/97 GMT, somebody wrote [and I can't remember who]:this list is about bamboo rod making not plastic poles!! Er... If that's the case, shouldn't we change the name of the list tobamboo.rodmakers? Seriously, I seem to remember some "plastic" builders dropping byfromtime totime. I'd bet a few of them stuck around to see what Bamboo was allabout. I don't remember anyone running them off or banishing them for anytheirposts. Terry, Couldn't agree with you more - most of us started building tubular rods.Myfirst one was in 1968 - a fiberglass by Fenwick. Still have it - don't fishit at all - but the memories are there. Would seem to be a shame if folksthat are in the transition stage from plastic to cane are driven off. +I've learned more that a few things about parts installation from the"plastic" guys. regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Dec 5 10:38:57 1997 Subject: Re: E-mail addres of The Planing Form. At 16:07 05/12/97 +0100, you wrote:Dear friends,I seek the E-mail addres of The Planing Form, or the E-mail of Mr.RonBarck. Sincerely,Marco Boretti Marco, Ron Barch's email address is: rbarch@remc8.k12.mi.us regards, Don from gwr@seanet.com Fri Dec 5 10:47:11 1997 IAA03961 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 1997 08:47:07 - Subject: Re: E-mail addres of The Planing Form. Marco, I don't know of an email address, but I do have a phone number (616)945 2329. The address is: The Planing FormP.O. Box 365Hastings, MI 49058 -Russ At 04:07 PM 12/5/97 +0100, you wrote:Dear friends,I seek the E-mail addres of The Planing Form, or the E-mail of Mr.RonBarck. Sincerely,Marco Boretti from mrj@seanet.com Fri Dec 5 10:59:23 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA04593 for Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? I think this is where we (bamboo rodbuilders) sometimes get people tothinkwe are arrogant in our regards to fishing rods. I think of bamoo not assuperior but different. In fact with the long rods 8.5 ft and up, I thinkgraphite is probably a better choice. Yup, weight is the reason. a fewounces in the hand is one thing but start whipping it around the air all dayand you really notice it. I imagine it has a lot to do with momentum.AnywayI am getting off track. All of my toys I build by hand if I can. I builtgraphite rods for years, but there is only so much you can do to influencethe rod when you buy it from someone else. Bamboo was just a naturalprogression becaused it got me more involved with the whole process. In asense the rod was "more of me" when I finished it. Thats why I alwayssaid Iwrapped rods as opposed to build rods untill I started with bamboo, butsurperior? I don't think so. For a short rod? yes. Long rod? no. Overall?tough call. I am sure that the only reason our fore fathers used bamboowasbecause it was the bast material they could get there hands on at thetime.If plastic were around, they would have used it.note: I have build a hollow 8.5ft. 6 wt. that is really nice to cast. 3.5oz. I am going to do more of this a I want to wean myself off the graphitebecause I want to not because it is better). Seems like with all this talk about milling machines and mechanicaldevices, the line between our superior material bamboo, and graphite isgetting a bit fuzzy. Mauro from DEMARALON@aol.com Fri Dec 5 11:15:57 1997 Subject: Re: Wayne Cattanach Try contacting Angler's Art for a copy of Wayne's book on constructing flyrods. Thrit numnrt id 800 848-1020. Good luck. Eileen Demarest from WDHCJL@aol.com Fri Dec 5 17:18:20 1997 Subject: Re: E-mail addres of The Planing Form. I haven't seen a copy of it and was just curious, what is the background ofthe Planing Form...when was it started, by who etc. Are back issuesavailable? from nicksco@fia.net Fri Dec 5 17:36:46 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA12464 for Subject: Re: E-mail addres of The Planing Form. WDHCJL wrote: I haven't seen a copy of it and was just curious, what is the backgroundofthe Planing Form...when was it started, by who etc. Are back issuesavailable?look at the rodmakers web site at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm from RONGEY@aol.com Fri Dec 5 18:05:10 1997 Subject: Books Can anyone help me find copies of the following books? Classic Rods and Rodmakers - Martin Keane The Fine Bamboo Flyrod - Stuart Kirkfield. Any help will be appreciated... Thanks, Ken Rongey RONGEY@aol.com616-245-2588 from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Dec 5 18:19:25 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA27592 for Subject: Re: Connection to Rodmakers site. At 08:00 AM 12/5/97 -0600, you wrote:Speaking of the rodmakers site - I've tried to import the Excelspreadsheet software into Quattro Pro. QP can't translate it. So does anyone have a Quattro Pro or Lotus 123 (I think I can importthat) spreadsheet for stress curves? Or maybe have a printout of the Excel spreadsheet? I also can't get the Windows software to load on W95. Any one knows howkeep it from bombing during setup? Thanks all, Don Burns I have it running ok on my win 95 but it is quite bugy. I remember I hadsome dificulty getting it installed properly. It requires a run-timelibrary, Vbrun300.dll, in the C:\windows\system directory. Check to see ifit is there. If not, you can get it from the microsoft visual basic site. Good luck, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Dec 5 19:22:27 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Graphite? what's that? Don,Amen to that.Hank. from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Dec 5 19:22:39 1997 Subject: Get togethers-demonstrations et al What are the dates do anything coming up in the midwest concerning rodmaking. I work at the USPS and I have to bid vacation in December. Iwould like to get to something if there is anything close but I have toknow the dates now. Thanks, SteveIndependence, MO from TonkinOne@aol.com Fri Dec 5 23:24:01 1997 Subject: Re: Books Ken -I'll call you in the morning - I should have both books Wayne from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 6 02:22:37 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA1425 Subject: Re: Books Hi, I, too, am looking for The Fine Bamboo Flyrod by Stuart Kirkfield. Thanks,Georgeirish-george@worldnet.att.net ----------From: RONGEY Subject: BooksDate: Friday, December 05, 1997 3:52 PM Can anyone help me find copies of the following books? Classic Rods and Rodmakers - Martin Keane The Fine Bamboo Flyrod - Stuart Kirkfield. Any help will be appreciated... Thanks, Ken Rongey RONGEY@aol.com616-245-2588 from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Dec 6 03:59:28 1997 Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? In a message dated 97-12-05 11:54:46 EST, you write: But wait a second graphite is made of what?Thats right CARBON.No real difference as far as I see it.Graphite is "bad" because we cant make a rod from it in our basement.Seems like with all this talk about milling machines and mechanicaldevices, the line between our superior material bamboo, and graphite isgetting a bit fuzzy.Buy a rod you can afford, and take a kid fishing. Before I signed off of the FF@ list I was writing to a guy whomade his own graphite blanks. For a hollow graphite rod gettingthe mandrels made is very expensive, so he made solid graphiterods, sometimes with a steel or boron wire core. The taper headjusted by different patterns cut out of the graphite cloth, andthen he had to wrap the graphite cloth around the core, wrap the whole mess in shrink tape, then bake in an oven. I have a feeling that a solid graphite rod with a boron wire core will be fairly close to a bamboo rod in weight. Personally, I like the smell and feel of bamboo when I'm workingit, so I decided not to get into graphite blank making. Darryl Hayashida from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Dec 6 06:01:44 1997 Subject: Re: Graphite? what's that? Personally, I like the smell and feel of bamboo when I'm workingit, so I decided not to get into graphite blank making. Darryl Hayashida Ah! The smell of bread baking in the oven and bamboo in the shop! from SealRite@aol.com Sat Dec 6 07:48:36 1997 Subject: Re: Bats I had a friend who was organizing some of his fishing equipment when hiscatran through the middle of the mess, getting tangled in the hooks and line.The wife then joined in and got hooked in the knee. The friend said it wasthe best fight he ever had on a small rod. Craig from SealRite@aol.com Sat Dec 6 07:52:53 1997 Subject: Re: Different Topic I've made up a set of collets out of wood, that use a friction fit around ataped shaft. The collets are simply a disc of wood, with a hole drilled inthecenter and machine screw inserted to mount into the chuck. Many times Ijustwrap the bamboo with masking tape and insert into the chuck. from SealRite@aol.com Sat Dec 6 07:59:09 1997 Subject: Re: Two Apologies Its a women's restroom in France Craig from SealRite@aol.com Sat Dec 6 08:19:14 1997 Subject: Re: burnishing scraper blades I've worked with scrapers for many years in the wood business. They aretheplowhorse of the finishing tools. My planes are pristine jewels, never layflat on the bottom, mirror finish on the blade, etc. A good scraper shouldbeeasy to use, can be tossed around, and generally resharpend with a coupleofstrokes with a burnishing tool. When the edge starts to roll, I hit it withafile, and a few strokes on a stone to square it up again. Clean shavings =sharp, saw dust = dull Craig from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Dec 6 08:46:23 1997 Subject: Been Pondering To all, Been pondering the advantages/disadvantages of scrapers vs planes vssandpaper for the final couple of thou. Seems like cane is like a large number of cells held together with lignin.Each of these cells is somewhat hollow. What I envisioned is awatermelon.What would make the smoothest cut. Abrasion [sandpaper], rubbing [scrapers] or a sharp knife [ plane]. Seems without question that the knifewould make the smoothest cut. Similarly in cane - what would make thesmoothest cut. Without question, it would seem that a knife is the answer. Any thoughts? And I know that there are several camps out there that use some or all ofthe techniques. So - - why do you do use what you use? regards, Don Off to temper/color some cane now the family is up. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Dec 6 09:35:31 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Sat,6 Dec 1997 10:36:37 -0500 Subject: splice blocks I remember at the Roscoe show Chris Bogart used steel splice blocks. Anyway, I had a machinist friend of mine make a bunch up for me and I was wondering if there was any sort of patent or what not that would prevent me from selling them. I don't want to step on anyone's toes, or take anyone's glory. Just a note from a bamboo and graphite guy: I learned the most valuable finishing techniques I know from graphite guys. I would dare say, with much ridicule to follow, that aesthetics, in the eye of the consumer, is more important than function......fire away...Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Dec 6 10:05:53 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Sat,6 Dec 1997 11:07:00 -0500 Subject: Loose Ferrules I was wondering what sort of products, perhaps available commonly, can be used as a was to tighten up loose ferrules? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from gjflyfsh@juno.com Sat Dec 6 10:09:34 1997 11:09:17 EST Subject: English help Sorry for going through the list for this. Could John Cooper (Ithink )or one of the other Rodmakers from England contact me off list. TIAjerrygjflyfsh@juno.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Dec 6 11:04:52 1997 Subject: RE:Loose Ferrules RO>I was wondering what sort of products, perhaps available commonly,RO>can be used as a was to tighten up loose ferrules? RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, One method is to use a lead mallet to tap on the female ferrule. Use alead anvil too -made from a think strip of lead. Use a second strip oflead as the mallet. A few light taps all around the ferrule - then test the fit. Repeat asneeded. Test with both males if it's a mid/tip set. Don B. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Dec 6 11:12:39 1997 Subject: Re: Connection to Rodmakers site. RO>>RO>I have it running ok on my win 95 but it is quite bugy. I remember I hadRO>some dificulty getting it installed properly. It requires a run- timeRO>library, Vbrun300.dll, in the C:\windows\system directory. Check tosee ifRO>it isRO>there. If not, you can get it from the microsoft visual basic site. RO>Good luck, RO>Doug EastonRO>Tonawanda, NYRO>> > > Doug, I've Vbrun100.dll - Vbrun400.dll already and I think that's part of theproblem. The setup/install program crashes if it finds the dll's in thesystem sub- directory, IMHO. I don't want to start deleting existing dll's until I'm sure that thisis the ONLY problem. The wrong delete sure could mess up W95 too. Don Burns from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Dec 6 11:43:38 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id MAA10313 for Subject: Re: Loose Ferrules Jon Lintvet wrote: I was wondering what sort of products, perhaps available commonly,can be used as a was to tighten up loose ferrules? Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781Jon,The two methods below are temporary fixes.Are the ferrules loose on the wood? Use ChairLok.Are the ferrules fitting together loosely? Use a candle stub carriedinyour fishing vest. Rub some wax on the male ferrule before fittingtogether; that's gotten me through more than a few seasons on some olderrods.Best regards,Reed from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Dec 6 14:48:27 1997 Subject: Re:Function At 10:36 06/12/97 +0000, Jon wrote:I would dare say, with much ridicule to follow, that aesthetics, in the eye of the consumer, is more important than function......fire away...Jon Lintvet Bang on !!! Remember the '56 Buick - 3 colors - non matched and ran like sh*t. Stillsold. Don from MiTiernan@aol.com Sat Dec 6 15:26:54 1997 Subject: Re: splice blocks If memory serves us from Roscoe, you were majoring in marketing. Wethinkyour question demonstrates that. Fortunately you have asked for someinput,so here is an historical perspective and personal opinion from both of us. John Long , who has advertised in the Planing Form, created those blocksaftermuch experience and references to older rodmakers like Garrison. He hasgraciously shared it with other rodmakers at gatherings such as Greyrockinthe course of demonstrating his nodeless rod techniques. It is inconceivable to us that you, as a new rodmaker; would presume tomakemoney off another's sweat equity. We feel this is a matter of honoramongstfellow rodmakers. Perhaps this is why some of the old masters of pastwere sounwilling to share ideas. Miles and Cheryl Tiernan from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Dec 6 20:05:37 1997 Subject: Re: Connection to Rodmakers site. Marco Check with your Internet provider (agonet?) and see if the problem is ontheirside. I was having difficulties and had to get help from AOL. Good luck,Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Dec 6 20:18:02 1997 Subject: Re: Milling Cane Going back several days (I got way behind over Thanksgiving) to theoriginalquestion about the Dremel router base: every one I ever saw came from thefactory with a warped sole. Try a small machinists square orstraightedgeagainst it (if you already got one) and see. A good base can be made from 1/4" plexiglass or the like. Anyway, unlesstheyhave improved the Mototool more than I think likely, the bearings in theselittle guys are not mounted solidly enough to permit very accurate work.I've tried several of them for years and they always wandered a little, nottomention they wore out frequently. Much better you get a good high-speedlaminate trimmer. Good luck!Davy from gjflyfsh@juno.com Sat Dec 6 20:21:10 1997 21:20:32 EST Subject: Re: Function DonHave a pattern for a 52 Buick, at least four colors (cheap substitutionsavailable). Never tested (ie low milage). maybe a fishers pattern.jerry On Sat, 06 Dec 1997 12:32:46 Don Andersen writes:At 10:36 06/12/97 +0000, Jon wrote:I would dare say, with much ridicule to follow, that aesthetics, in the eye of the consumer, is more important than function......fire away...Jon Lintvet Bang on !!! Remember the '56 Buick - 3 colors - non matched and ran like sh*t. Still sold. Don from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Dec 6 21:34:10 1997 Subject: Re: Finishing methods / Classic tapers Lieber Kurt! Thanks so much for your reply to my request re. rod finishing methods.Perhaps if there had not been so much stimulating repartee on the subjectofbamboo vs. graphite, somebody besides youself might also have responded!! I sure hope you are not terribly put-off by sarcasm. Oh, well :-) I'd havethought that nag flogged to death by now. I'm new to the list, though, so Iprobably think a lot of wrong stuff. However, back to the varnish. I also use spar varnish, mainly because there's a lot of it lying about (Myother main hobby is boatbuilding) and I'm far too cheap to go out and buyanything for which I have a good substitute. If and when you run out ofHelmsman, may I reccommend Interlux Schooner varnish? I think its aboutthebest as far as shine, durability and ease of application. Except for rebuilt or repaired sections which have to match matingsectionswhich have been dipped, I mainly use tung oil, rubbed in with fine Micro-Mesh.I then put a couple coats of varnish on the silk and call that good. I have used thinned nitro-cellulose lacquer as well as regular colorpreserver, but now I, like you, generally buy a couple shades lighter silkthan I want the wraps to come out. Burgundy comes out a nice deep claretthatway, and that seems to compliment the "medium-well" tone I tend to getfromheat-treating the cane. Too bad all my files got deleted the last time AOL dumped me, 'cause I'dliketo respond more specifically to your letter. Again, thanks for respondingandhelping me me blow away some of the fog. Davy from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Dec 6 23:13:57 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Sun,7 Dec 1997 00:15:03 -0500 Subject: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks That is exactly why I was asking. However, I am sure you would find it hard to argue the idea was original. The blocks I had made were to spec. with Garrison's book. In fact, I took a photo copy to a retired machinist I know and he came up with the rest...which I may add are remarkably similar to what I remember from Roscoe. The only reason I had a dozen of them is because (as I am sure you know), once the set up is done, it is cheap to make them. I don't want to take anyones glory, but from the stand point of a marketing major...products have a life cycle...and during the growth stage there is an increase in competition based on factors such as price differentiation. Specifically, certain manufactures can offer comparable products cheaper, or aim their efforts at separate market segments. As a new rodmaker I was astounded by some of the prices charged for products that lack competition. That is exactly why I started making the binder kits. There is no reason to discourage new comers to the craft by the appearance of high start up costs. I was discouraged, and if it were not for the kind hearts of a few (in my mind), master rod makers, I would not be where I am today. Even if that is only one rod under the belt with a few on the bench. This is only my opinion, but I have a strong business orientation for my age. I do have respect for those ahead of me...and I will stand down from selling the splice blocks until I can justify my experience as being worthy to those that will come after me. In my opinion, the early rodmakers were like any other business men/women that had a marketable product with limited competition. In business, you can only keep a product a secret for so long, that is why test markets are so costly to companies. To everyone that has helped me in my journey thus far, I am grateful, and I promise to do the same for those that follow.. I apologize to anyone if I have stepped on your toes, I thought I was in a position to offer a service for the good of the craft, but I stand corrected.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Dec 7 00:21:37 1997 Subject: Re: Re:Function Jon,Concerning splicing blocks-I bought a number of different wooden blocksfroma now defunct company made on Garrison's specs-that's making money offsomeone's sweat-albeit deceased sweat. I don't find your idea thatdistasteful.Hank. from gwr@seanet.com Sun Dec 7 00:23:37 1997 WAA05646 for ; Sat, 6 Dec 1997 22:23:29 - Subject: The splicing block I wrote the following to Jon in confidence, but seeing him standdown on the list prompted me to make my rant public. Here goes: Regarding the splicing blocks, I do follow the list. Saw you gotslammed. Damn shame. If I were you I'd write to Chris Bogart and ask hispermission insofar as you are actually copying any of his orginal ideas. Iknow Daryll Whitehead gave George Mauer (Sweetwater Rods) permissionto makehis bevelers for resale, perhaps Mr. Bogart would do the same for you. Ifhe gives you the go-ahead, then you needn't worry about these other folk.If not, well, at least you tried. Look at Jeff Wagner's ad for planingforms in TPF, he also sells a hex punch for winding checks with all creditto Mr. Tyree who designed it. Credit where credit is due, royalties ifrequired by the designer, then get the thing on the market. I honestly think that folks who resent upstarts ;) like yourselfought to keep one eye over their shoulder. It's upstarts like you and mewho are the future of this odd art. I could give a rat's ass how old youare or how new you are to the art, if your product is good, then youdeserveas much respect as those of the older generations whose products are onparwith yours. I say this because it seems that your antagonists' biggestconcern is that you are a *young* marketeer. So long as you are not pricegouging and your block is precisely made, it can only help us if folks likeyou offer the tools that the rest of us need. I for one buy 90% of my toolsand spend my precious hours crafting rods not mucking about with makingtools. The 10% of tools I make are those few that are not offered for sale. As to the recalcitrance of the old masters in sharing their secrets:those days are over, for better or worse. Perhaps those who upbraided youfear competition from a new generation of rod makers (young & old) whoareproperly equipped to produce high quality rods? and I continue for the list where I left off with Jon: Everything I know about plastic rods (and I make a fair fishin' pole) Ilearned from a couple of books and a lot of trial and error. Everything Iknow about cane, what little that is so far, I have learned from books and from a more experienced gentleman secure enough in his owncraftsmanship totake time from a busy schedule to train the next generation ofcompetition.A little generosity and support goes a long way to securing the future ofcane building. This may come by way of publishing a tome full of "secrets"or from personal instruction. Like Jon, I hope to have a young craftsmanapprenticed to me in thirty years - the success of the pupil is the measureof the teacher and, for those who love the art, that success is rewardenough to bother with the teaching. Us newbies stand on the shoulders ofgreat men and we appreciate the view. Our sweat equity will be investedinthe years to come and forty years from now some 21 year old upstart willbefinding a cheaper way to produce the tools that we designed. I do hopethatneither Jon nor I will be caught taking that young man to task for hisefforts to improve the lot of cane builders in a millenium when artisansofall breeds will be scarce growing scarcer. And while I'm on my soapbox, three cheers for Don and the others who'drather that those of us in a transition phase from plastic to cane not bespooked off the list. I know that I'll be a better cane maker for havinghad years of experience assembling graphite and that is nothing to beashamed of. Respectfully submitted, Russ Gooding (26 year old upstart and full-time rod builder)Golden Witch Rodsgwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com PS - I'd like to see one of your splicing blocks Jon. Please reconsideryour decision, market the damn things, and email me off list with a price. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Dec 7 04:03:54 1997 Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:03:41 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: splice blocks On Sat, 6 Dec 1997, MiTiernan wrote: If memory serves us from Roscoe, you were majoring in marketing. Wethinkyour question demonstrates that. Fortunately you have asked for someinput,so here is an historical perspective and personal opinion from both of us. John Long , who has advertised in the Planing Form, created those blocksaftermuch experience and references to older rodmakers like Garrison. He hasgraciously shared it with other rodmakers at gatherings such asGreyrock inthe course of demonstrating his nodeless rod techniques. It is inconceivable to us that you, as a new rodmaker; would presume tomakemoney off another's sweat equity. We feel this is a matter of honoramongstfellow rodmakers. Perhaps this is why some of the old masters of pastwere sounwilling to share ideas. Miles and Cheryl Tiernan Without wanting to make comment on the pros and con of a marketing opertunity I must say that scarfing blocks have been around and used in various configurations for a long time by people who've never heard of Garrison, Bogart etc as the fields of at least some of these people were into held/hold other people like Herreshoff and Gougeon (boat builders, another group well versed in scarfing) in just as high regard.Never being too sure on how comments are going to be taken I'll add here that I am in no way belittling Garrison or Chris, I'm simply stating using a scarfing block to get a good join on timbers used in sheer clamps on dingys and canoes before I ever saw a piece of Tonkin.Are you suggesting a "newbie" bright enough to see a good idea ignore it simply because he/she hasn't "put the time in" to be justified to use it?Surely not. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sun Dec 7 07:39:52 1997 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks Jon I remember being flamed down by a sky full of rockets at my one attemptto publickly share knowledge. It was by Hoagy Carmichael. I talked toMr. Carmichael and explained how the trouble had come about (excesssivezeal and cutting by a magazine editor who knew nothing about anything)and Mr. Carmichael made a very gracious apology. That is not reallypertinent, but shows, I think, how simple fiascos can turn into majorconfrontations. The real problem you are facing does indeed have itsroots in the concept of the huddled little white haired rod maker delvinginto his arcane secrets, and building a wall aroound his methods, toolsand materials. I have no problem with tool developments that have beenfreely offered . If the need for commercial production is there andthere is no patent or copywrite restriction and the (Presumed )originator made the idea freely available. Go for it. Still there is afine line here and I think only a deeply ingrained sense of ethics canfind it.I have no secrets. I dearly love to teach the craft to others(albeit sometimes for money) and I am ever willing to share anything Imay have. I do not even feel put out when some of my apprenticesactually exceed me in the work I have taught them. More power to them.As long as I have the satisfaction and confidence in what I do all iswell.As Tony has pointed out scarfing is in the public domain and has neveran idea that has been or needs to be protected. I personally have metfive individuals who "invented" the Humpy. So what if one claims one ofthe others stole his idea; I know it was not original with any of thefive.I have one concern, and I do not direct it at you in any way. I donot appreciate those who would prostitute this art to a by seizingeverything in sight in an effort to make money. There are those amongwho have turned to working with bamboo to a sleazy effort to get rich.They have failed to learn the craft, but more, they have failed to learnthe philosophy and the ethics and the heritage. The craftsman is worthyof his hire, but no more. Ralph. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Dec 7 09:53:53 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Books George W. Bourke wrote: Hi, I, too, am looking for The Fine Bamboo Flyrod by Stuart Kirkfield. Thanks,Georgeirish-george@worldnet.att.net ----------From: RONGEY Subject: BooksDate: Friday, December 05, 1997 3:52 PM Can anyone help me find copies of the following books? Classic Rods and Rodmakers - Martin Keane The Fine Bamboo Flyrod - Stuart Kirkfield. Any help will be appreciated... Thanks, Ken RongeyRONGEY@aol.com616-245-2588 And I'm looking for both of them!! Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com507 HighlandWinnsboro, LA 71295318 435- 4359 from rcurry@jlc.net Sun Dec 7 09:58:51 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA26945 for Subject: An Interesting Bamboo Site http://www.progresstrading.com/page3.html The above might be of interest.Reed from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Dec 7 10:04:16 1997 Subject: Re: Re:Function In a message dated 12/7/97 12:09:18 AM, you wrote: Don - As H.L. Mencken once wrote " Nobody ever went broke byunderestimatingthe taste of the American consumer". Did you guys north of the border buy'56Buicks also? from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Dec 7 13:11:22 1997 Subject: Re:Function At 11:01 07/12/97 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 12/7/97 12:09:18 AM, you wrote: sold.>> Don - As H.L. Mencken once wrote " Nobody ever went broke byunderestimatingthe taste of the American consumer". Did you guys north of the border buy'56Buicks also? Tom, Yup - they were bought up here. No accounting for people's taste. StillChev did OK with the '56. One of the best cars Chev ever put out. take care, Don from nicksco@fia.net Sun Dec 7 13:21:25 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21910 for Subject: Re: An Interesting Bamboo Site Reed F. Curry wrote: http://www.progresstrading.com/page3.html The above might be of interest.ReedI found that site about a month ago. I live in Las Vegas Nv and go tothe LA area quite often. I am going to stop by there the next trip. Theydid not answer an e-mail I sent them. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 7 14:11:19 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA7512 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks Hi Jon, Personally, I'd say that if it isn't available on the market, who is ANYONEto complain? If they thought it was going to make them rich, it would bepatented and on the market. What a lot of non-marketing types don'trealize is selling products in small quantities (such as those involved inthe making of bamboo rods where the ENTIRE lifecycle of a product,assuming100% market penetration, might be 500 units) it is far easier to LOSEMONEYthan it is to make money. I view the availability of tools to be aservice. No one alive today invented splice blocks. Fly fishing ingeneral has gotten quite a bit crazy with "patented" fly patterns requiringroyalty payments, I'd hate to see the same thing happen with inanimatehandtools that took someone ten minutes to think up and require $200 capitalexpenditures to produce (a table saw, used, with an aluminum cuttingbladeand cutting fluid). If I were one of the older curmudgeons whining aboutownership, I'd stop and think a minute...maybe, just maybe, it would becheaper for me to buy them from you (economies of scale) and not worryabout the $500 profit you are going to make for 6 months of marketingeffort and sub-contracting of services. If my take on this tends to drive away anyone contributing to the group,well that is quite unfortunate and unintended (and for them, self-defeatingas group member own a substantial number of bamboo rods made by others-- and if interest dies down, so will their market).I sincerely do not wish to step on anyone's toes here, but let's get realhere: no one is going to lose or gain rodmaking business based on theavailability of tools. I think Hiram Leonard would have an easier taskselling his rods today than ANY member of this group...let's get the toolsout of the way and get back to developing skills, and for those with theself-confidence to do so, sharing methods. (For those of you who think yousell more rods due to your ability to polymerize toothpaste to holdtogether your creations, please don't feel pressured to make your methodspublic.) George W. Bourke ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: (Fwd) Re: splice blocksDate: Saturday, December 06, 1997 4:14 PM That is exactly why I was asking. However, I am sure you would find it hard to argue the idea was original. The blocks I had made were to spec. with Garrison's book. In fact, I took a photo copy to a retired machinist I know and he came up with the rest...which I may add are remarkably similar to what I remember from Roscoe. The only reason I had a dozen of them is because (as I am sure you know), once the set up is done, it is cheap to make them. I don't want to take anyones glory, but from the stand point of a marketing major...products have a life cycle...and during the growth stage there is an increase in competition based on factors such as price differentiation. Specifically, certain manufactures can offer comparable products cheaper, or aim their efforts at separate market segments. As a new rodmaker I was astounded by some of the prices charged for products that lack competition. That is exactly why I started making the binder kits. There is no reason to discourage new comers to the craft by the appearance of high start up costs. I was discouraged, and if it were not for the kind hearts of a few (in my mind), master rod makers, I would not be where I am today. Even if that is only one rod under the belt with a few on the bench. This is only my opinion, but I have a strong business orientation for my age. I do have respect for those ahead of me...and I will stand down from selling the splice blocks until I can justify my experience as being worthy to those that will come after me. In my opinion, the early rodmakers were like any other business men/women that had a marketable product with limited competition. In business, you can only keep a product a secret for so long, that is why test markets are so costly to companies. To everyone that has helped me in my journey thus far, I am grateful, and I promise to do the same for those that follow.. I apologize to anyone if I have stepped on your toes, I thought I was in a position to offer a service for the good of the craft, but I stand corrected.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 7 14:15:16 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA9067 Subject: Re: Books Martin's book is findable, but expensive ($85-130). Try:Just Good BooksLen CodellaMartin Keaneand one should turn up in a couple of months. I've only seentwo copies of Kirkfield's book listed anywhere, and I just missedboth of them...so if anyone has a lead on it, I'd appreciate it.Thanks,George W. Bourke ----------From: Harry Boyd, Jr. Subject: Re: BooksDate: Sunday, December 07, 1997 7:55 AM George W. Bourke wrote: Hi, I, too, am looking for The Fine Bamboo Flyrod by Stuart Kirkfield. Thanks,Georgeirish-george@worldnet.att.net ----------From: RONGEY Subject: BooksDate: Friday, December 05, 1997 3:52 PM Can anyone help me find copies of the following books? Classic Rods and Rodmakers - Martin Keane The Fine Bamboo Flyrod - Stuart Kirkfield. Any help will be appreciated... Thanks, Ken RongeyRONGEY@aol.com616-245-2588 And I'm looking for both of them!! Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com507 HighlandWinnsboro, LA 71295318 435- 4359 from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sun Dec 7 14:17:55 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id MAA15293 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: An Interesting Bamboo Site I had found the Progress Trading site last Summer when I was looking foraTonkin source (since everyone else had none in stock). When I finally didmanage to get ahold of the owner he informed me that he had left the caneimportation business, and had sold what remained of his stock to someoneelse. I called this other firm, but they told me that none of thecane they had received from Progress Trading was suitable for rodbuilding. I also talked to another cane importer in the San Francisco Bayarea who confirmed that Progress Trading had gone back to their previousbusiness of importing baskets, etc., and that the Tonkin itself was not ofa rod building grade to begin with. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 7 14:18:48 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA10649 Subject: Re: An Interesting Bamboo Site So, has anyone ever built a rod with Moso bamboo?The Tonkin here is a bit small (1" diameter). George Bourke ----------From: Reed F. Curry Subject: An Interesting Bamboo SiteDate: Sunday, December 07, 1997 7:57 AM http://www.progresstrading.com/page3.html The above might be of interest.Reed from WDHCJL@aol.com Sun Dec 7 16:19:18 1997 Subject: Re: Less interest in FF? (Was:Sir Darryl's Rods) In a message dated 97-12-06 18:05:40 EST, you write: Check Amazon.com they show all his work.doug hall from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sun Dec 7 16:22:38 1997 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks Good thoughtful response, Jon Jon Lintvet wrote: That is exactly why I was asking. However, I am sure you would findit hard to argue the idea was original. Theblocks I had made were to spec. with Garrison's book. In fact, Itook a photo copy to a retired machinist I know and he came up withthe rest...which I may add are remarkably similar to what I remember from Roscoe. The only reason I had a dozen of them is because (asI am sure you know), once the set up is done, it is cheap to makethem. I don't want to take anyones glory, but from the stand pointof a marketing major...products have a life cycle...and during thegrowth stage there is an increase in competition based on factorssuch as price differentiation. Specifically, certain manufacturescan offer comparable products cheaper, or aim their efforts atseparate market segments. As a new rodmaker I was astounded by someof the prices charged for products that lack competition. That isexactly why I started making the binder kits. There is no reason todiscourage new comers to the craft by the appearance of high start upcosts. I was discouraged, and if it were not for the kind hearts of a few(in my mind), master rod makers, I would not be where I am today.Even if that is only one rod under the belt with a few on the bench. This is only my opinion, but I have a strong business orientation formy age. I do have respect for those ahead of me...and I willstand down from selling the splice blocks until I can justify myexperience as being worthy to those that will come after me. In my opinion, the early rodmakers were like any other businessmen/women that had a marketable product with limited competition. Inbusiness, you can only keep a product a secret for so long, that iswhy test markets are so costly to companies. To everyone that has helped me in my journey thus far, I amgrateful, and I promise to do the same for those that follow.. Iapologize to anyone if I have stepped on your toes, I thought I wasin a position to offer a service for the good of the craft, but Istand corrected.Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-9781 from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Dec 7 17:11:47 1997 SAA22831 for ; Sun, 7 Dec 1997 18:15:05 -0500 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks George I agree - I did not want to get into the middle of the exchange sinceI am off line during the week. Jon has developed his version of a splicingblockwith out copying John Longs version. Let him make his available. Thereare several people making push-pull forms - we are better off for it. One last thought - show me a self made millionaire rodmaker and Iwillshow you a drug dealer! On Sun, 07 Dec 1997 18:04:01 -0800, George W. Barnes wrote: Good thoughtful response, Jon Jon Lintvet wrote: That is exactly why I was asking. However, I am sure you would findit hard to argue the idea was original. Theblocks I had made were to spec. with Garrison's book. In fact, Itook a photo copy to a retired machinist I know and he came up withthe rest...which I may add are remarkably similar to what I remember from Roscoe. The only reason I had a dozen of them is because (asI am sure you know), once the set up is done, it is cheap to makethem. I don't want to take anyones glory, but from the stand pointof a marketing major...products have a life cycle...and during thegrowth stage there is an increase in competition based on factorssuch as price differentiation. Specifically, certain manufacturescan offer comparable products cheaper, or aim their efforts atseparate market segments. As a new rodmaker I was astounded bysomeof the prices charged for products that lack competition. That isexactly why I started making the binder kits. There is no reason todiscourage new comers to the craft by the appearance of high start upcosts. I was discouraged, and if it were not for the kind hearts of a few(in my mind), master rod makers, I would not be where I am today.Even if that is only one rod under the belt with a few on the bench. This is only my opinion, but I have a strong business orientation formy age. I do have respect for those ahead of me...and I willstand down from selling the splice blocks until I can justify myexperience as being worthy to those that will come after me. In my opinion, the early rodmakers were like any other businessmen/women that had a marketable product with limited competition. Inbusiness, you can only keep a product a secret for so long, that iswhy test markets are so costly to companies. To everyone that has helped me in my journey thus far, I amgrateful, and I promise to do the same for those that follow.. Iapologize to anyone if I have stepped on your toes, I thought I wasin a position to offer a service for the good of the craft, but Istand corrected.Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277-9781 Regards Chris from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Dec 7 18:07:39 1997 Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:07:27 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Chris Bogart wrote: George I agree - I did not want to get into the middle of the exchange sinceI am off line during the week. Jon has developed his version of a splicingblockwith out copying John Longs version. Let him make his available. Thereare several people making push-pull forms - we are better off for it. One last thought - show me a self made millionaire rodmaker and Iwillshow you a drug dealer! I'm heartened to see that's your opinion. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Dec 7 18:10:38 1997 Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:10:24 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, Ralph W Moon wrote: Jon I remember being flamed down by a sky full of rockets at my oneattemptto publickly share knowledge. It was by Hoagy Carmichael. I talked toMr. Carmichael and explained how the trouble had come about (excesssivezeal and cutting by a magazine editor who knew nothing about anything)and Mr. Carmichael made a very gracious apology. That is not reallypertinent, but shows, I think, how simple fiascos can turn into majorconfrontations. The real problem you are facing does indeed have itsroots in the concept of the huddled little white haired rod maker delvinginto his arcane secrets, and building a wall aroound his methods, toolsand materials. I have no problem with tool developments that have beenfreely offered . If the need for commercial production is there andthere is no patent or copywrite restriction and the (Presumed )originator made the idea freely available. Go for it. Still there is afine line here and I think only a deeply ingrained sense of ethics canfind it.I have no secrets. I dearly love to teach the craft to others(albeit sometimes for money) and I am ever willing to share anything Imay have. I do not even feel put out when some of my apprenticesactually exceed me in the work I have taught them. More power to them.As long as I have the satisfaction and confidence in what I do all iswell.As Tony has pointed out scarfing is in the public domain and has neveran idea that has been or needs to be protected. I personally have metfive individuals who "invented" the Humpy. So what if one claims one ofthe others stole his idea; I know it was not original with any of thefive.I have one concern, and I do not direct it at you in any way. I donot appreciate those who would prostitute this art to a by seizingeverything in sight in an effort to make money. There are those amongwho have turned to working with bamboo to a sleazy effort to get rich.They have failed to learn the craft, but more, they have failed to learnthe philosophy and the ethics and the heritage. The craftsman is worthyof his hire, but no more. Ralph. Well said Ralph. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from nicksco@fia.net Sun Dec 7 18:24:33 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA26822 for Subject: Re: An Interesting Bamboo Site irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: So, has anyone ever built a rod with Moso bamboo?The Tonkin here is a bit small (1" diameter). George Bourke ----------From: Reed F. Curry Subject: An Interesting Bamboo SiteDate: Sunday, December 07, 1997 7:57 AM http://www.progresstrading.com/page3.html The above might be of interest.ReedHas anyone ever tryed other types of can? from nicksco@fia.net Sun Dec 7 18:58:58 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA00774 for Subject: Cane Irish- george asked about using other types of cane! Has any one evertryed or heard of anyone trying other types of cane? Tonkin is the typethat the first rod builders used, but is it the only one that will work?It seems that tonkin is very hard to come by, maybe someother one isjust as good? Just thought I'd ask! Thanks C. O. Nicks from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Dec 7 19:43:56 1997 Subject: Re: Cane Nick -The original bamboos used for rod making were Calcuttas - Tonkin issaid tohave been first used by Montaque in the 1890 - they are credited withgivingtonkin the name tonkin. In 'Classic rods and RodMakers' you are shownsamplesof rod make of other bamboos. The truth is that tonkin is the densest ofthebamboo.As far as supply - that should be taken care of shortly - however thereisbamboo to go around if the need is there - write or call of line Wayne616-675-5894 from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Dec 7 20:11:35 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA29385 Subject: Re: An Interesting Bamboo Site Calcutta cane was commonly in use before Tonkin, but I'd never heard ofMoso cane before (and diameters up to 6" are available!).(Also, from previous postings, apparently Calcutta cane was brieflyreferred to as African Steel Vine by WW2 marketing types upset by theinterruption of Tonkin and not wishing to appear to be going backwards.) George Bourke ----------From: C. O. Nicks Subject: Re: An Interesting Bamboo SiteDate: Sunday, December 07, 1997 2:23 AM irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: So, has anyone ever built a rod with Moso bamboo?The Tonkin here is a bit small (1" diameter). George Bourke ----------From: Reed F. Curry Subject: An Interesting Bamboo SiteDate: Sunday, December 07, 1997 7:57 AM http://www.progresstrading.com/page3.html The above might be of interest.ReedHas anyone ever tryed other types of can? from Bopep@aol.com Sun Dec 7 20:16:53 1997 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks What's all the fuss? If they're to be made, I'm interested!so there... from jczimny@dol.net Sun Dec 7 20:33:53 1997 Subject: Re: Cane C. O. Nicks wrote: Irish- george asked about using other types of cane! Has any one evertryed or heard of anyone trying other types of cane? Tonkin is the typethat the first rod builders used, but is it the only one that will work?It seems that tonkin is very hard to come by, maybe someother one isjust as good? Just thought I'd ask! Thanks C. O. NicksCalcutta cane is the type that the first rodmakers used. Arundaria camein around the turn of the century. No one has yet found a substitute fortonkin.John Zimny from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Dec 7 21:08:47 1997 Subject: Re: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks Amen to Tony, Ralph,etc,-let the list run, if we all kept all our secretsthere would be no list. I not only find the list a valuable learning tool butalso a source of joy -this idea of manning the baricades againstinterlopersis an arrogance that will destroy us. I make cane rods to sell as well asuse.I am also an amateur huntsman for a small pack of hounds but I don't lookdownon the professionals-I learn from 'em.Enuf band width-I'll get off the soapbox.Hank. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sun Dec 7 21:14:29 1997 Subject: Just saying Hi Just got connected to the list (at least I am receiving the list - my firstmessage. Thank you Michael for the fine work and to everyone - great job.I have taken time to "lurk" the archives quite a lot and have particularlyenjoyed the tone as well as all the excellent information. Special "Hi" andmuch thanks to Hank W. for his extraordinary talk at our TU meeting (bestspeaker in years!) and to John Z. for all his help and advise - I hope torepay in the coming years. Ted Godfrey from KDLoup@aol.com Sun Dec 7 22:02:22 1997 Subject: Re: Alternate Cane List, A few friends and members of the local fly fishing club have beenaskingme about the suitability of Louisiana cane for rod making. I have beenoffered cane from a few sources. Yesterday, I inspected some cane thatwassupposedly taken from the root stock of experimental cane grown byNicholsState University. The cane was about 3-4 inches in diameter and about 30feettall. Unfortunately, it had died out a few months ago and was rotting. Iattempted to estimate the wall thickness, but this was not possible dueto thedecay. Numerous culms of approximately 1-1 1/4 inches were growing. So, in afew months or in the spring, I'll check on their progress. A club memberpromises to cut some live cane about the same dimensions. I'll leteveryoneknow how this comes out. I remember Daryl H. commenting onseeing/casting arod made from LA cane, but all I remember about the post was the uglygraycolor of the rod. Kurt Loup from SealRite@aol.com Sun Dec 7 22:53:00 1997 Subject: Hex shaped winding check Does anyone know a source for a hex shaped NS winding check? Craig from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Dec 7 22:58:08 1997 Subject: For Ralph Ralph -I read your post of the 'situation' with interest - I remember readingsome articles you wrote for a magazine in the 70's. Are these of what youspeak??? You did influence some of us with those you know as you stillare.Perhaps you might be able to fill in a blank or two. I have some lengthywritings from the late 40's - the author is Dan Brenan. I assume that hewaseast coast - perhaps with The Angling Club. I have never gotten a goodansweras to who he is. Forgive me if I appear as if I am trying to date you - butyou with your better connection to flyfishing I am wondering if the nameisfamiliar. Wayne from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sun Dec 7 23:03:11 1997 Subject: Hex winding checks I do not know of a source, but I have made my own - fairly easy if you haveround rod stock. If you do not find a source, I'll be happy to supply info.regarding my particular way of making them Ted Godfrey from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sun Dec 7 23:14:35 1997 Subject: colort-me-forgetful: hex winding checks Just remembered: Received REC catalog last month (nice new one in color- finally a decent cat!) They have knurled winding checks with hex cut ID.My method of making them does not permit knurling, but they are hex both and OD. Ted godfrey from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Dec 8 03:22:31 1997 Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:22:20 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Hex shaped winding check On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, SealRite wrote: Does anyone know a source for a hex shaped NS winding check? Craig Try REC Components at rec@flyfishers.com Ask for the catalogue while you're at it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Dec 8 06:47:49 1997 Subject: Re: For Ralph 2F4B866311DFCFA005F8CD38" --------------2F4B866311DFCFA005F8CD38 Wayne Catt wrote: Ralph -I read your post of the 'situation' with interest - I remember readingsome articles you wrote for a magazine in the 70's. Are these of whatyouspeak??? You did influence some of us with those you know as you stillare.Perhaps you might be able to fill in a blank or two. I have some lengthywritings from the late 40's - the author is Dan Brenan. I assume that hewaseast coast - perhaps with The Angling Club. I have never gotten a goodansweras to who he is. Forgive me if I appear as if I am trying to date you - butyou with your better connection to flyfishing I am wondering if the nameisfamiliar. Thanks Wayne. Yes it was an article I wrote for the Fly Fisherman . Brenandoes strike a memory note, but at the moment no more than that. I willsee if Ican find something. I have some sources. Incidentally you are dating me!!,butfather time beat you to it so don't worry about it. I find the older I getthemore curmudgeonish I become, and the more I love it.Ralph .PS. Did you get my e-mail about the FFF Conclave? --------------2F4B866311DFCFA005F8CD38 Wayne Catt wrote:Ralph - interest- I remember readingsome articles you wrote for a magazine in the 70's. Are these of whatyouspeak??? You did influence some of us with those you know as youstillare.Perhaps you might be able to fill in a blank or two. I have somelengthywritings from the late 40's - the author is Dan Brenan. I assume thathe waseast coast - perhaps with The Angling Club. I have never gotten a goodansweras to who he is. Forgive me if I appear as if I am trying to date you- butyou with your better connection to flyfishing I am wondering if thename isfamiliar. more curmudgeonish I become, and the more I love it.Ralph --------------2F4B866311DFCFA005F8CD38-- from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Mon Dec 8 06:57:42 1997 (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id HAA21439 for ; Subject: Re: Hex shaped winding check They list for $5 in the REC catalog. Regards, Bob On Mon, 8 Dec 1997, Tony Young wrote: On Sun, 7 Dec 1997, SealRite wrote: Does anyone know a source for a hex shaped NS winding check? Craig Try REC Components at rec@flyfishers.com Ask for the catalogue while you're at it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Mon Dec 8 07:54:18 1997 Subject: Re: Hex winding checks At 12:01 AM 12/8/97 -0500, Ted wrote: I do not know of a source, but I have made my own - fairly easy if youhaveround rod stock. If you do not find a source, I'll be happy to supply info.regarding my particular way of making them Hi Ted, If it's not too much trouble, how about posting your method. I, and I'msure others, would be interested in hearing how it's done. Also, it mightbe a good way for me to pick up some extra cash. (Just kidding!) Later,Johnny------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Dec 8 08:40:50 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Mon,8 Dec 1997 09:41:11 -0500 Subject: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks First let me say I appreciate all the support that worked its way out of the wood work. Second, for those that do not know, the only reason I got into this whole tool building craze is because I am still waiting to afford my final forms....so I have tried to build everything I would like. When I was looking into buying pulleys for the binders, the cost was about 22 a binder. I found a machinist, and he made them out of aluminum (which everyone had requested) for 100. It did not matter if I had bought enough for one binder or 10 binders. The cost was the same. It was the same deal for the splice blocks. I saw what looked like a superior tool with a high cost (relative to what i can afford) at the Roscoe show and had my friend make me one. Same deal as above. I don't know the costs yet, but it was a flat rate for one set or 12 sets. There is the background. I think people can get caught up in trying to make a million like you said Ralph, however, rest assured that is not what i am trying to do. I just don't have anything else to do right now (wish I did) and rather pay the 15 cost for set of splice blocks than 100. I want to learn everything I can about this craft, not sell it. But I also lack a disposable income. If I can sell a quality tool, at a cost 2/3 less than competition, and a willing market exists, I will sell. That is why I am so thankful to the rodmakers that have helped me along the way. If I could pay them for the help I would...but I doubt they would take it. So until I accumulate enough "sweat equity" to be respected by some, I will offer my tools as an alternative. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Dec 8 08:52:48 1997 Subject: homemade winding checks Hi Johnny, Winding checks can be made from 1/2" dia. solid 12% N.S. rod stock. Alatheis needed to drill a proper size center hole in the rod, size the OD, makeany cosmetic grooves or landings, and finally to cut off the finished piece(blank piece). I made some last winter and I think I made the ID the samesize or a little larger than the cross-the-flats rod dimension. A tapered hex shaped mandrel needs to be made: Taper a piece of 1/2" dia.steel rod on the lathe - .312 on the small end (smaller for little flearods), 1/2" stock dia. on the other end aprox. 1 1/2" long - straight taper.File this into a hex shape. Sounds problamatic, but if one can make abamboo rod, this is child's play. The hex shape can be slightly roundedbecause rods are slightly rounded. Also need one or perhaps two "anvils"which are simply 3/4" or larger dia. steel pieces with holes. Perhaps apiece of 1/4" thick steel sheet stock with various holes drilled wouldworkas well. If you like the tools you have made, harden or at leastcase-harden them. The N.S. blank piece is slipped onto the hex mandrel and pressed orhamereddown the taper to begin to get the hex shape. Use a plastic or if notavailable, a regular hammer to shape the OD while blank piece is still onthe mandrel. Repeat the above once or twice more. Remove blank piece,fileoff any ID burrs and thoroughly buff. Obviously, due to the hammering onthe OD, fine knurlling is not permitted. Making the mandrel, anvils, and pieces is easier than it may sound. Have a happy . . . Ted Godfrey from bc940@freenet.uchsc.EDU Mon Dec 8 09:40:40 1997 IAA07085; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 08:40:35 -0700 Subject: Re: Hex winding checks I do not know of a source, but I have made my own - fairly easy if youhaveround rod stock. If you do not find a source, I'll be happy to supply info.regarding my particular way of making them Ted Godfrey Ted, I am interested. How do you make them? Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado -- from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Dec 8 09:59:33 1997 Subject: hex winding checks - section 1, sub 3, part 33, with maps, imagesand wind-up-dolls Johnny, (having trouble with phone line here, don't know if first message gotthrough) Winding checks can be made from 1/2" dia. solid 12% N.S. rod stock. Alatheis needed to drill a proper size center hole in the rod, size the OD, makeany cosmetic grooves or landings, and finally to cut off the finished piece(blank piece). I made some last winter and I think I made the ID the samesize or a little larger than the cross-the-flats rod dimension. A tapered hex shaped mandrel needs to be made: Taper a piece of 1/2" dia.steel rod on the lathe - .312 on the small end (smaller for little flearods), 1/2" stock dia. on the other end aprox. 1 1/2" long - straight taper.File this into a hex shape. Sounds problamatic, but if one can make abamboo rod, this is child's play. The hex shape can be slightly roundedbecause rods are slightly rounded. Also need one or perhaps two "anvils"which are simply 3/4" or larger dia. steel pieces with holes. Perhaps apiece of 1/4" thick steel sheet stock with various holes drilled wouldworkas well. If you like the tools you have made, harden or at leastcase-harden them. The N.S. blank piece is slipped onto the hex mandrel and pressed orhamereddown the taper to begin to get the hex shape. Use a plastic or if notavailable, a regular hammer to shape the OD while blank piece is still onthe mandrel. Repeat the above once or twice more. Remove blank piece,fileoff any ID burrs and thoroughly buff. Obviously, due to the hammering onthe OD, fine knurlling is not permitted. Making the mandrel, anvils, and pieces is easier than it may sound.Have a happy . . .Ted Godfrey from jbr842@airmail.net Mon Dec 8 10:13:53 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.216) with smtp for Subject: Re: homemade winding checks Ted Godfrey wrote: Hi Johnny, Winding checks can be made from 1/2" dia. solid 12% N.S. rod stock. Alatheis needed to drill a proper size center hole in the rod, size the OD, makeany cosmetic grooves or landings, and finally to cut off the finishedpiece(blank piece). I made some last winter and I think I made the ID thesamesize or a little larger than the cross-the-flats rod dimension. A tapered hex shaped mandrel needs to be made: Taper a piece of 1/2"dia.steel rod on the lathe - .312 on the small end (smaller for little flearods), 1/2" stock dia. on the other end aprox. 1 1/2" long - straight taper.File this into a hex shape. Sounds problamatic, but if one can make abamboo rod, this is child's play. The hex shape can be slightly roundedbecause rods are slightly rounded. Also need one or perhaps two "anvils"which are simply 3/4" or larger dia. steel pieces with holes. Perhaps apiece of 1/4" thick steel sheet stock with various holes drilled wouldworkas well. If you like the tools you have made, harden or at leastcase-harden them. The N.S. blank piece is slipped onto the hex mandrel and pressed orhamereddown the taper to begin to get the hex shape. Use a plastic or if notavailable, a regular hammer to shape the OD while blank piece is still onthe mandrel. Repeat the above once or twice more. Remove blank piece,fileoff any ID burrs and thoroughly buff. Obviously, due to the hammering onthe OD, fine knurlling is not permitted. Making the mandrel, anvils, and pieces is easier than it may sound. Have a happy . . . Ted Godfrey Having built no rods but having done a bit of gunsmithing in past yearsI hope my comments might help none the less. Perhaps the winding checksmight be knurled or at least be given a reeded edge such as coins have pistols or groove back and front straps on automatic pistols. They canbe had to cut quite fine parallel lines of varying spacing fromBrownell's Gunsmithing Supplies in Montezuma, Iowa. Jim, "you keep planing 'em and I'll keep fishin 'em, Bryan from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Dec 8 10:35:33 1997 Subject: Knurling winding checks Jim: Thank you for the "none the less". I'll look at my Brownells cat. for thefiles (I don't know anything about file technique or gunsmithing). On myrods, I don't like much embellishment (sp?) at least at the winding check -too junky there already with windings and hook keeper - just my thing. WhenI see a fine knurled winding check on a rod made by a better maker thanme,I may change my opinion. Doing it the hard way, Ted G. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Dec 8 10:50:08 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Function anbody that thinks anything in woodworking is proprietary is in for abig surprise, all we are doing is reinventing the wheel and unless itssomething totally new and patentable it's just a copy (maybe of modernmaterials) of something that was invented-developed probably a couplehundred years ago. Splicing blocks go back to the first times man triedto splice two pieces of wood together. ----------From: FISHWOOL[SMTP:FISHWOOL@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, December 06, 1997 10:16 PM Subject: Re:Function Jon,Concerning splicing blocks-I bought a number of different woodenblocks froma now defunct company made on Garrison's specs-that's making moneyoffsomeone's sweat-albeit deceased sweat. I don't find your idea thatdistasteful.Hank. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Dec 8 12:20:37 1997 MAA25436 for ; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 12:20:34 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id MAA19165 for ; Subject: Which mfg's snake guides? My 2nd rod is taking shape so I'm starting to think about the jewelry. How do the various manufacturers' snake guides compare? some H&H from Anglers Workshop. They were made of much heavier wire(maybe too heavy) but looked nice and I used them. I know Perfectionguides are a favorite, and are only 1/2 the price of H&H. I thinkI used Perfection on some gr*ph*t* rods I built in the 80's. I'm just thinking plain old chrome plated guides. Any opinions on these or other options?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Dec 8 12:28:17 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Which mfg's snake guides? I've used H&H on all my rods. They work great for me. Brian Thomanhttp:\\www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer [SMTP:stetzer@csd.uwm.edu]Sent: Monday, December 08, 1997 1:21 PM Subject: Which mfg's snake guides? My 2nd rod is taking shape so I'm starting to think about the jewelry. How do the various manufacturers' snake guides compare? some H&H from Anglers Workshop. They were made of much heavier wire(maybe too heavy) but looked nice and I used them. I know Perfectionguides are a favorite, and are only 1/2 the price of H&H. I thinkI used Perfection on some gr*ph*t* rods I built in the 80's. I'm just thinking plain old chrome plated guides. Any opinions on these or other options?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon Dec 8 12:30:15 1997 Subject: Thanks. Many thanks, to all friends have helped me concerning the E-mail addres of The PlaningForm, and connection to Rodmakers site.Sincerely,Marco. from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Mon Dec 8 13:26:17 1997 8.7/8.7) id OAA36088 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 Subject: RE: Which mfg's snake guides? I'll second Brian's Hopkins & Holloway guides choice. I've used them onseveral rods over the past several years and have been always pleasedwiththem. Nicely ground feet (no touch up required), very good chrome (I havea 5 year old rod that is my go-to rod which shows no sign of wear),somewhatpricier than the chepaos, but well worth it.Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/a.htm from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Dec 8 13:52:59 1997 Subject: Re: Alternate Cane In a message dated 97-12-08 00:03:14 EST, you write: I remember Daryl H. commenting on seeing/casting arod made from LA cane, but all I remember about the post was the uglygraycolor of the rod. Nope, wasn't me, but it was in a post answering a question I hadabout different bamboo for rod making. I can't recall who it was,but I think it was someone who lives in the Louisiana area. Darryl Hayashida from rfairfie@cisco.com Mon Dec 8 14:31:09 1997 Subject: Re: Which mfg's snake guides? Frank, chrome plated guides are what I use, and have worked well. Tnx,Roger from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Dec 8 10:23:37 1997 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Frank Stetzer Subject: Which mfg's snake guides?MIME-Version: 1.0X-Listprocessor- Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN My 2nd rod is taking shape so I'm starting to think about the jewelry. How do the various manufacturers' snake guides compare? some H&H from Anglers Workshop. They were made of much heavier wire(maybe too heavy) but looked nice and I used them. I know Perfectionguides are a favorite, and are only 1/2 the price of H&H. I thinkI used Perfection on some gr*ph*t* rods I built in the 80's. I'm just thinking plain old chrome plated guides. Any opinions on these or other options?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Dec 8 14:49:06 1997 Subject: snake guides Might want to try Bellinger. He may be importing some very good lookingguides that I saw at a show. Very high price. If above is true, check tosee what kind and thickness of plating as well as the hardness of basewire.In the past, some Orient sourced snakes have had some faults. My wife and daughter went to Spain (home-alone, smoking cigarettes andwatching Captain Kangaroo) Ted G. from harry37@epix.net Mon Dec 8 14:58:48 1997 PAA15010 Subject: Re: Which mfg's snake guides? Len Gorney wrote: I'll second Brian's Hopkins & Holloway guides choice. I've used them onseveral rods over the past several years and have been always pleasedwiththem. Nicely ground feet (no touch up required), very good chrome (I havea 5 year old rod that is my go-to rod which shows no sign of wear),somewhatpricier than the chepaos, but well worth it.Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/a.htm Let me throw in my $.02 for H&H, although I have dressed up the feet alittle more with a diamond lap to taper the transition even more. Also, when you consider the time, effort, and cost you have invested toget to the point you're at, the additional cost for the H&H really isn'tsignificant. Greg Kuntz from rhd360@maine.maine.edu Mon Dec 8 16:29:17 1997 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 08 Dec 97 17:28:51 EST Subject: Harry Middleton Harry, Last time I checked Anglers Art (800 848-1020) had 2 additionalMiddleton titles: On the Spine of Time in paperbk and The Bright Country(now out of print). Bright Country is not terribly bright and through muchof it Middleton is suffering from some serious depression, but aside fromthat there is some great writing and insight. Middleton does with wordswhat the master crafters do with fine cane. --RM I know this isn't a rodmaking comment, but Middleton is one of myfavorites as well. I've only found The Earth Is Enough, The StarlightCreek Angling Society, and Rivers of Memory. Did he write others, andif so, does anyone know where I might get a copy? I know his writing issuddenly VERY collectable. -- Harry Boyd from bc940@freenet.uchsc.EDU Mon Dec 8 18:09:25 1997 RAA23899; Mon, 8 Dec 1997 17:09:14 -0700 Subject: Motague I was recently given a Montague rod by a relative. The label on th rod isMontague sunbeam, The label on the case is for a Montague Rapidan. Therod itself is in decent shape. One ferule in the mid section is loose,will need reset, the finish has the usual dings, and chips but not in badcondition. The rod is 9' 3pc with both tips. The question to the list is, is this a good rod for a first restoration?Does any one know the aprox Value? What line weight will it cast and it ita decent casting rod? Thanks in advance for the info. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado -- from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Dec 8 18:45:16 1997 Subject: RE:Motague RO>I was recently given a Montague rod by a relative. The label on th rodisRO>Montague sunbeam, The label on the case is for a Montague Rapidan. TheRO>rod itself is in decent shape. One ferule in the mid section is loose,RO>will need reset, the finish has the usual dings, and chips but not in badRO>condition. The rod is 9' 3pc with both tips. RO>The question to the list is, is this a good rod for a first restoration?RO>Does any one know the aprox Value? What line weight will it cast andit itRO>a decent casting rod? Thanks in advance for the info. RO>Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado Jim, This will be a good 1st restoration rod because the value is low - maybe$100 or so max. Even less if selling to a dealer. Watch out for cracks in the ferrules - I've seen Monties that wereunused yet had cracked ferrules. Also the ferrules will be pinned andyou'll need to remove the pins before resetting them. Try tapping thepin in until the ferrule can be removed over it, then remove the pin. I'd guess that the rod would cast a 6/7 wt line and would cast okay atbest. Check out Michael Sinclair's restoration handbook for good helpful ideastoo. The "normal" wraps for the later Sunbeams were blue/white, but anycolor combination might be found on them since Montague farmed out thewrapping to local ladies. (piece-work home industry) Don Burns PS - My interest in bamboo rod restoration started with my dad giving mehis (3) 9' Mont. Sunbeams. I scraped one (for parts), fixed the oldestone and made a banty rod out of the 3rd. PPS - Thanks to Tom Smithwick for getting me started towards building acane rod - I just (this past weekend) planed my 1st practice strip!Boy-oh- boy do I have questions for the list now! from rcurry@jlc.net Mon Dec 8 18:50:31 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id TAA29572 for Subject: Re: Alternate Cane SalarFly wrote: In a message dated 97-12-08 00:03:14 EST, you write: I remember Daryl H. commenting on seeing/casting arod made from LA cane, but all I remember about the post was the uglygraycolor of the rod. Nope, wasn't me, but it was in a post answering a question I hadabout different bamboo for rod making. I can't recall who it was,but I think it was someone who lives in the Louisiana area. Darryl HayashidaI confess, it was me. The rod was made in the late '40s early '50s byGene Edward. Only some of the strips were LA cane.Reed from mrj@seanet.com Mon Dec 8 20:02:14 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA16955 for Subject: Re: Alternate Cane Well,,,,,,might I ask how you thought it cast? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Alternate Cane SalarFly wrote: In a message dated 97-12-08 00:03:14 EST, you write: I remember Daryl H. commenting on seeing/casting arod made from LA cane, but all I remember about the post was theuglygraycolor of the rod. Nope, wasn't me, but it was in a post answering a question I hadabout different bamboo for rod making. I can't recall who it was,but I think it was someone who lives in the Louisiana area. Darryl HayashidaI confess, it was me. The rod was made in the late '40s early '50s byGene Edward. Only some of the strips were LA cane.Reed from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 8 20:32:26 1997 Subject: Re: Function Hiya,I just felt that I had to through in my two-cents and agree with themajority. Unless you are violating someones patent or copyright withoutcompensation (and you REALLY don't want to do that!) don't feel badabout knocking the per piece price down on some nice accessories andmaking them available to others who don't have your machinist friend togo to. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you certainly did notdeserve to get flamed for asking a very sincere and open-facedquestion. Guess you won't be mailing one to Kalamazoo! ;^) Brian "I don't think my opinions smell bad" Creek from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Dec 8 21:03:42 1997 Subject: Nov list - archive Just got connected to the list a couple days ago; so have missed anymessageregarding posting of nov 97 archive. prehaps you can provide info. respectfully, Ted Godfrey from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Dec 8 21:20:50 1997 Subject: Re: Alternate Cane Reed, Did you cast the rod? If so, how was it? Kurt Loup from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon Dec 8 21:21:16 1997 0000 Subject: used rod lists i'm looking for a decent, older rod.....8'-8'6" 5 or 6wt......somethinglonger for wet flies......if you have an online list or could e-mail me onei'd really appreciate it.... thanks alot!!! ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////____MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net____/// \\\\_\\\\__http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/________ICQ#3782893__\\\ ____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o-------------------------------- --------------`''''''/||\/||||\ from nicksco@fia.net Mon Dec 8 21:38:56 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07030 for Subject: Re: used rod lists Matt Leiderman wrote: i'm looking for a decent, older rod.....8'-8'6" 5 or 6wt......somethinglonger for wet flies......if you have an online list or could e-mail me onei'd really appreciate it.... thanks alot!!! ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////____MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net____/// \\\\_\\\\__http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/________ICQ#3782893__\\\____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o----------- -----------------------------------`''''''/||\/||||\ go to www.gorp.com/cl_angle/equipcat.htm from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Dec 8 21:57:07 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1b1);Mon,8 Dec 1997 22:55:46 -0500 Subject: Blackening I bought some of Payne's blackening agent from George Mauer at the Roscoe get together. I would like to use it and have no idea where to start. Could someone mail me off the list with some hints/directions. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from harry37@epix.net Tue Dec 9 06:22:17 1997 HAA29968 Subject: Re: used rod lists Matt Leiderman wrote: i'm looking for a decent, older rod.....8'-8'6" 5 or 6wt......somethinglonger for wet flies......if you have an online list or could e-mail me onei'd really appreciate it.... thanks alot!!! ____________ \_______________________________________________________________////_////____MattLeiderman____mleider@postoffice.ptd.net____/// \\\\_\\\\__http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/________ICQ#3782893__\\\____________/ O-,- \||||/_____(_______\||/_o----------- -----------------------------------`''''''/||\/||||\ Matt: try http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm Greg Kuntz from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Tue Dec 9 08:49:55 1997 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Rod maker web site Here's another cane/graphite rod maker web site.http://www.kaneklassics.com/ -Jerry Ballard from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Dec 9 09:10:40 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Tue,9Dec 1997 10:08:02 -0500 Subject: Chris Bogart I know I asked before but I am sure he has moved. Does anyone have his phone #? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.mail.saic.com Tue Dec 9 09:55:341997 1997 15:55:23 UT 07:55:26 -0800 Subject: H&H Guides Subject: Time: 10:34 AMOFFICE MEMO H&H Guides Date: 12/9/97 Has anyone had experience with the various types of H&H guides such asDLC,blued, and bronzed? I am curious about how the various platings hold upovertime. Thanks. --Rich from flyfisher@rhco.com Tue Dec 9 10:02:47 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: H&H Guides I have used the blued guides on two rods. They are actually blackened,not blued. So far they haven't had any problems. The one problem thatI had was one guide came that wasn't completely blackened. Theblackening appears to be a coating over the wire as opposed to treatingthe wire, like bluing. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp:\\www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: Rich Margiotta [SMTP:RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.mail.saic.com]Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 1:35 PM Subject: H&H Guides Subject: Time:10:34 AMOFFICE MEMO H&H Guides Date:12/9/97 Has anyone had experience with the various types of H&H guides such asDLC,blued, and bronzed? I am curious about how the various platings holdup overtime. Thanks. --Rich from bjcoch@arkansas.net Tue Dec 9 10:41:49 1997 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id QAA21413 for; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:53:15 GMT Subject: Re: Which mfg's snake guides? Greg Kuntz wrote: Len Gorney wrote: I'll second Brian's Hopkins & Holloway guides choice. I've used them onseveral rods over the past several years and have been always pleasedwiththem. Nicely ground feet (no touch up required), very good chrome (Ihavea 5 year old rod that is my go-to rod which shows no sign of wear),somewhatpricier than the chepaos, but well worth it.Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/a.htm Let me throw in my $.02 for H&H, although I have dressed up the feet alittle more with a diamond lap to taper the transition even more.Also, when you consider the time, effort, and cost you have invested toget to the point you're at, the additional cost for the H&H really isn'tsignificant. Greg Kuntz I agree with all the above. I however prefer to use black or darkenedguides(H&Hmake them) because of the "no glare no scare". I feel that a great castingrodwith lots of shine gives the opportunity for the rod shine to spook thewarry fishand I hate loosing a big fish because my guides had too much shine. JMHO BryantC. from bjcoch@arkansas.net Tue Dec 9 10:43:54 1997 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id QAA21662 for; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 16:55:21 GMT Subject: Re: Motague Alisa Fillpot wrote: I was recently given a Montague rod by a relative. The label on th rod isMontague sunbeam, The label on the case is for a Montague Rapidan. Therod itself is in decent shape. One ferule in the mid section is loose,will need reset, the finish has the usual dings, and chips but not in badcondition. The rod is 9' 3pc with both tips. is this a good rod for a first restoration?Does any one know the aprox Value? What line weight will it cast and itita decent casting rod? Thanks in advance for the info. Jim Fillpot, Loveland Colorado Yes this is a good rod for a first restoration. Bryant C. from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Tue Dec 9 10:59:09 1997 Subject: RE: H&H Guides At 11:04 AM 12/9/97 -0500, Brian Thoman wrote: I have used the blued guides on two rods. They are actually blackened,not blued. So far they haven't had any problems. The one problem thatI had was one guide came that wasn't completely blackened. Theblackening appears to be a coating over the wire as opposed to treatingthe wire, like bluing. Brian, I had the same problem with a H&H guide in a set with the DLC (I think)coating. Makes me wonder about their quality control. Later,Johnny ------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from jbr842@airmail.net Tue Dec 9 11:36:07 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.216) with smtp for Subject: Re: Knurling winding checks Ted Godfrey wrote: Jim: Thank you for the "none the less". I'll look at my Brownells cat. for thefiles (I don't know anything about file technique or gunsmithing). On myrods, I don't like much embellishment (sp?) at least at the winding check-too junky there already with windings and hook keeper - just my thing. WhenI see a fine knurled winding check on a rod made by a better maker thanme,I may change my opinion. Doing it the hard way, Ted G. Ted, I'm sure you're being much too modest when you mention "a better makerthan me"! At any rate, the files cut several parallel lines at a time soyou place the first set or couple of sets of teeth on the file in thelast groove or couple of grooves you cut in the material and that keepsthe grooves parallel and even throughout the area of coverage. Simple,no? Kinda like painting by numbers. Regards,Jim from penr0295@uidaho.edu Tue Dec 9 12:01:55 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id KAA06904 for ; doing -bs Subject: RE: H&H Guides On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Johnny Johnson wrote: At 11:04 AM 12/9/97 -0500, Brian Thoman wrote: I have used the blued guides on two rods. They are actually blackened,not blued. So far they haven't had any problems. The one problem thatI had was one guide came that wasn't completely blackened. Theblackening appears to be a coating over the wire as opposed to treatingthe wire, like bluing. Brian,I had the same problem with a H&H guide in a set with the DLC (I think)coating. Makes me wonder about their quality control. Later,Johnny I have also had a number of black DLC H&H guides in which one side of theguide had not been coated. For such expensive guides ($2.36 each fromAngler's Workshop), you would think that quality control would be better.You can always return them, but it is a hassle. T. Penrose from flyfisher@rhco.com Tue Dec 9 12:10:16 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: H&H Guides The DLC's were the ones that I had problems with also. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp:\\www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: Thomas Penrose [SMTP:penr0295@uidaho.edu]Sent: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 1:02 PM Subject: RE: H&H Guides I have also had a number of black DLC H&H guides in which one side oftheguide had not been coated. For such expensive guides ($2.36 each fromAngler's Workshop), you would think that quality control would bebetter.You can always return them, but it is a hassle. T. Penrose from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Tue Dec 9 14:33:48 1997 8.7/8.7) id PAA20692 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 9 Dec 1997 Subject: Re: H&H Guides Rich,I haven't used anything but the chrome H&H guides. I have a 5-year-old orso rodthat takes a yearly beating and the guides are still new looking. I mayhave aset of the bronze guides on the bench just waiting for the right rod.Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from DEMARALON@aol.com Tue Dec 9 14:55:50 1997 Subject: Re: Chris Bogart Dear Chris---Your information is the same that I have. If you are successful in gettingmore current information I would appreciate receiving it also. Eileen from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Dec 9 15:02:28 1997 Subject: alternative cane - sourcing it Thank you Jim for the kind words and usefull info! In my spare time which is fast becomming hard to come-by, I am trying toresearch species of cane alternative to tonkin. So . . . this message isdirected to those on the list who live in semi-tropical areas of thecountryincluding, I suppose, some wet spots near the border in southern Ca. Three species have been suggested to me: Florida grown (large dia.)Arundinaria gigantea, Bambosa textilis, and Bambusa dissemulator. I havenoticed various attempst on the list to make inquiries about alternativebamboo and I suspect that many of us may be of the opinion "why bother". Ibother because I don't like nodes and I have a suspicion (self serving as itmight be) that we have not looked hard enough for alternative materialand/or species may have been disregarded out-of-hand. There are someexamples of rods extant made from the unwashed species, but like UFO'stheyseem to be hard to find, see or touch. I have noticed reference to the Am. Bamboo Soc. in more than one cane rodwww site; perhaps someone else has already tried to source the abovespecies!?Anyway, anyone with hands-on knowledge of off-species rods, actuallyworkedwith different species of cane or just generally have an interest in thesubject, please contact me on the list or direct e-mail if you prefer. Note, I have read the mail regarding the alterate strip - LA/tonkin rod. Iwill be checking with the Am. Bamboo Soc. regarding sourcing abovespeciesand report to the list whatever I find. Becoming grayer and more nodeless everyday, Ted. G. from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Dec 9 16:16:12 1997 Subject: NS in Seattle Does anybody know where to get small supplies of nickel-silver bar-and- tubestock in the Seattle-Tacoma area? Thanks,Davy from nicksco@fia.net Tue Dec 9 16:19:59 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10450 for Subject: Re: alternative cane - sourcing it Ted Godfrey wrote: Thank you Jim for the kind words and usefull info! In my spare time which is fast becomming hard to come-by, I am tryingtoresearch species of cane alternative to tonkin. So . . . this message isdirected to those on the list who live in semi-tropical areas of thecountryincluding, I suppose, some wet spots near the border in southern Ca. Three species have been suggested to me: Florida grown (large dia.)Arundinaria gigantea, Bambosa textilis, and Bambusa dissemulator. Ihavenoticed various attempst on the list to make inquiries about alternativebamboo and I suspect that many of us may be of the opinion "why bother". Ibother because I don't like nodes and I have a suspicion (self serving asitmight be) that we have not looked hard enough for alternative materialand/or species may have been disregarded out-of-hand. There are someexamples of rods extant made from the unwashed species, but like UFO'stheyseem to be hard to find, see or touch. I have noticed reference to the Am. Bamboo Soc. in more than one canerodwww site; perhaps someone else has already tried to source the abovespecies!?Anyway, anyone with hands-on knowledge of off-species rods, actuallyworkedwith different species of cane or just generally have an interest in thesubject, please contact me on the list or direct e-mail if you prefer. Note, I have read the mail regarding the alterate strip - LA/tonkin rod. Iwill be checking with the Am. Bamboo Soc. regarding sourcing abovespeciesand report to the list whatever I find. Becoming grayer and more nodeless everyday, Ted. G.There is a place in Florida that has all of the cane growing that youlist, plus Tonkin. It's at www.boofarm.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 9 18:09:48 1997 Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:09:36 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: H&H Guides On 9 Dec 1997, Rich Margiotta wrote: Subject: Time: 10:34 AMOFFICE MEMO H&H Guides Date: 12/9/97 Has anyone had experience with the various types of H&H guides such asDLC,blued, and bronzed? I am curious about how the various platings hold upovertime. Thanks. --Rich I've found that the "bluing" possibly isn't bluing but is closer to black. This coating also isn't always complete but looks ok once on the rod.The bronze guides seem a little better.I understand H&H weren't selling the blued snakes for a while due to this problem and I haven't bought any since so the problem may have beensolved. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue Dec 9 18:16:53 1997 Subject: Re: alternative cane - sourcing it Good luck with the American Bamboo Society. I've rattled their cage anumber oftimes trying to find a source of Calcutta cane, not as a substitute but forbetter awareness of what the early rod makers were up against and howthe rodsperformed. It was like talking to the wall. Ted Godfrey wrote: Thank you Jim for the kind words and usefull info! In my spare time which is fast becomming hard to come-by, I am tryingtoresearch species of cane alternative to tonkin. So . . . this message isdirected to those on the list who live in semi-tropical areas of thecountryincluding, I suppose, some wet spots near the border in southern Ca. Three species have been suggested to me: Florida grown (large dia.)Arundinaria gigantea, Bambosa textilis, and Bambusa dissemulator. Ihavenoticed various attempst on the list to make inquiries about alternativebamboo and I suspect that many of us may be of the opinion "why bother". Ibother because I don't like nodes and I have a suspicion (self serving asitmight be) that we have not looked hard enough for alternative materialand/or species may have been disregarded out-of-hand. There are someexamples of rods extant made from the unwashed species, but like UFO'stheyseem to be hard to find, see or touch. I have noticed reference to the Am. Bamboo Soc. in more than one canerodwww site; perhaps someone else has already tried to source the abovespecies!?Anyway, anyone with hands-on knowledge of off-species rods, actuallyworkedwith different species of cane or just generally have an interest in thesubject, please contact me on the list or direct e-mail if you prefer. Note, I have read the mail regarding the alterate strip - LA/tonkin rod. Iwill be checking with the Am. Bamboo Soc. regarding sourcing abovespeciesand report to the list whatever I find. Becoming grayer and more nodeless everyday, Ted. G. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 9 18:44:07 1997 Wed, 10 Dec 1997 08:43:58 +0800 (WST) Subject: Guides I should have mentioned this when I posted re. H&H guides.I got a snake maker from Dave LeClair (The Fly & Rod Room) when I was having trouble with H&H guides. I wasn't expecting too much for the $20-$25 Dave charges for these little snake maker gizmos but they workgreat.These gizmos are so simple I was amazed.It takes about 1 try before you start getting good guides the only tricky bit is getting the hang of when to stop turning so you get consistancy from snake to snake and that dosn't take much either.Once you make the guides, you flatten the feet then give the feet the Dremel treatment (or file) and you have good guides. I guess each guide takes about 5 min from staight wire to dremeled feet guide. Not realymuch more trouble than buying them.I'm using Liver of Sulphur to blacken the guides and this looks very much like the finish H&H are using only better but Dave also has oxidizing solutions which I can't bring over so can't comment on. I have no financial or related interest with Dave, I'm just happy to tell about someone who sells a good product at a fair price.I just hope he's still making them :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Dec 9 18:46:59 1997 Subject: thank you - cane sources Thanks for the information: C. O., Oris, and George I have contacted Fl/Carib Am. Bamboo Soc. and Boon in Fl. I don't expect alot of help from these folks and expect to retread other rodmakers/investigators paths for a while. I'll keep shaking the bushes asthere is just enough ticklish rumors, maybe's, and what if's to keep going. If anything is found, some tests such as suitability for heat treatment,andweight vs stress - strain would be needed. Sounds like work! Ted G. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Dec 9 19:17:14 1997 Subject: RE:alternative cane - sourcing it RO>Thank you Jim for the kind words and usefull info! RO>In my spare time which is fast becomming hard to come-by, I amtrying toRO>research species of cane alternative to tonkin. So . . . this message isRO>directed to those on the list who live in semi-tropical areas of thecountryRO>including, I suppose, some wet spots near the border in southern Ca. RO>Three species have been suggested to me: Florida grown (large dia.)RO>Arundinaria gigantea, Bambosa textilis, and Bambusa dissemulator. IhaveRO>noticed various attempst on the list to make inquiries aboutalternativeRO>bamboo and I suspect that many of us may be of the opinion "whybother". IRO>bother because I don't like nodes and I have a suspicion (self serving asitRO>might be) that we have not looked hard enough for alternative materialRO>and/or species may have been disregarded out- of-hand. There aresomeRO>examples of rods extant made from the unwashed species, but likeUFO's theyRO>seem to be hard to find, see or touch. RO>I have noticed reference to the Am. Bamboo Soc. in more than one canerodRO>www site; perhaps someone else has already tried to source the aboveRO>species!?RO>Anyway, anyone with hands-on knowledge of off- species rods, actuallyworkedRO>with different species of cane or just generally have an interest in theRO>subject, please contact me on the list or direct e-mail if you prefer. RO>Note, I have read the mail regarding the alterate strip - LA/tonkin rod. IRO>will be checking with the Am. Bamboo Soc. regarding sourcing abovespeciesRO>and report to the list whatever I find. RO>Becoming grayer and more nodeless everyday, Ted. G. Ted, I live near Los Angeles and theres some wild cane of some unknown typegrowing in the riverbed near my house. I'm not a builder yet myself andso haven't bother to cut any, but the time is near. I've just planed my1st couple of test strips and will be needing to make a bamboo run upthe street soon. My only desire is cheap technique testing materialunless the stuff looks real good. If it does, I'll run some down toDarryl H. - he'd be a better judge of value. Don B. PS - No I haven't got a clue as to type. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 9 19:35:52 1997 Subject: Re: Knurling winding checks Ted,Welcome to the list! It's a great place for info and new friends.Hank. from mrj@seanet.com Tue Dec 9 19:53:16 1997 (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13011 for Subject: Re: NS in Seattle If you find any please let me know. About 1.5 to 2 years ago I looked andlooked, and looked. I came up with nothing. Oh, if you wanted to buy acouple thousand pounds then there was "no problem". I declined this offer.Dave Leclair (on the list) is the last person who I got a small quantity ofnickel silver round stock from. I am in Seattle also (Ballard).-----Original Message----- Subject: NS in Seattle Does anybody know where to get small supplies of nickel-silver bar-and- tubestock in the Seattle-Tacoma area? Thanks,Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 9 19:57:35 1997 Subject: Re: Re: (Fwd) Re: splice blocks Go for it, Jon.Hank. from fquinchat@locl.net Tue Dec 9 20:05:55 1997 (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA18355 for ; Subject: Re: Knurling winding checks Ted, Do you have an address for Brownells? I'd like a catalog. Dennis ----------From: Ted Godfrey Subject: Knurling winding checksDate: Monday, December 08, 1997 11:34 AM Jim: Thank you for the "none the less". I'll look at my Brownells cat. forthefiles (I don't know anything about file technique or gunsmithing). On myrods, I don't like much embellishment (sp?) at least at the winding check-too junky there already with windings and hook keeper - just my thing. WhenI see a fine knurled winding check on a rod made by a better maker thanme,I may change my opinion. Doing it the hard way, Ted G. from BAHiStick@aol.com Tue Dec 9 20:29:58 1997 Subject: Straight vs Compound Taper Anyone understand the performance and handling differences betweenstraightand compound taper rods. I would suspect that blanks for straight taperareeasier to build. Are compounds better, if so for what range of use, etc. Thanks, Walt Schneider from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 9 20:45:36 1997 Subject: Re: Blackening Don't answer off-list! I need to know how to use the stuff, also. Ifits not too arduous or toxic I'd like to buy some. Brian from lblan@provide.net Tue Dec 9 21:04:24 1997 Subject: Brownells Address - Was, Re: Knurling winding checks Brownells Inc.200 South Front StreetMontezuma, Iowa 50171 Phone (515) 623-5401Fax (515) 623-3896 -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Knurling winding checks Ted, Do you have an address for Brownells? I'd like a catalog. Dennis ----------From: Ted Godfrey Subject: Knurling winding checksDate: Monday, December 08, 1997 11:34 AM Jim: Thank you for the "none the less". I'll look at my Brownells cat. forthefiles (I don't know anything about file technique or gunsmithing). On myrods, I don't like much embellishment (sp?) at least at the windingcheck-too junky there already with windings and hook keeper - just my thing.WhenI see a fine knurled winding check on a rod made by a better maker thanme,I may change my opinion. Doing it the hard way, Ted G. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Dec 9 21:25:53 1997 Subject: Required reading In case no one has said it lately: BUY THE BEST OF THE PLANING FORM!! Got my copy today - should have had it months ago. Should have beenpolitlyflamed for speaking about hex winding checks - it's in the book. So often Ihear of the other "the Book". I suggest you folks who contributed to thePlaning Form might take a lot more credit, but that would not fit the toneof the List. Brownells Inc. (515) 623 5401 FAX: 515 623 3896. I have a 96- 97catalog, no e-mail address found. Note: This gun-trade oriented co.preferrs prepayment, certified check at the door, or better yet cash. Hank, good to hear your "voice". Truely, these guys raved about yourpresentation at TU - you have a great way of presenting information,connecting with people, and most important, you have terrific stagepresence! You should be doing "the circuit" for big money! Two years ago I got some 12% N.S. rod stock from John Busby - Busby Co.Stuff costs around $10.00/lb as I remember it, but I am confused aboutmin.order - maybe $50 or $100. 12% is soft and not suitable for ferrules, butcomonly used for reel seats and other jewelry. Busby Co. in Ct.: (516)434 3400. Perhaps there are Co's. listed in Rodmakers that might be asgoodor better for your piticular needs. from richjez@enteract.com Tue Dec 9 22:05:15 1997 0000 Lrichjez.enteract.com) (207.229.150.30) Subject: RE:alternative cane - sourcing it A good place to get plants identified, is the local college. Usually thebiology dept has someone who can di it. It works for bugs and othercritters too.Rich Jezioro I live near Los Angeles and theres some wild cane of some unknown typegrowing in the riverbed near my house. I'm not a builder yet myself andso haven't bother to cut any, but the time is near. I've just planed my1st couple of test strips and will be needing to make a bamboo run upthe street soon. My only desire is cheap technique testing materialunless the stuff looks real good. If it does, I'll run some down toDarryl H. - he'd be a better judge of value. Don B. PS - No I haven't got a clue as to type. from richjez@enteract.com Tue Dec 9 22:05:17 1997 0000 Lrichjez.enteract.com) (207.229.150.30) Subject: Re: Guides Tony, How do I contact the fly & rod room and what material did you useforthe guides?Rich Jezioro At 08:43 AM 12/10/97 +0800, you wrote:I should have mentioned this when I posted re. H&H guides.I got a snake maker from Dave LeClair (The Fly & Rod Room) when I was having trouble with H&H guides. I wasn't expecting too much for the $20-$25 Dave charges for these little snake maker gizmos but they workgreat.These gizmos are so simple I was amazed.It takes about 1 try before you start getting good guides the only tricky bit is getting the hang of when to stop turning so you get consistancy from snake to snake and that dosn't take much either.Once you make the guides, you flatten the feet then give the feet the Dremel treatment (or file) and you have good guides. I guess each guide takes about 5 min from staight wire to dremeled feet guide. Not realymuch more trouble than buying them.I'm using Liver of Sulphur to blacken the guides and this looks very much like the finish H&H are using only better but Dave also has oxidizing solutions which I can't bring over so can't comment on. I have no financial or related interest with Dave, I'm just happy to tell about someone who sells a good product at a fair price.I just hope he's still making them :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from KDLoup@aol.com Tue Dec 9 22:41:05 1997 Subject: Re: Alternate Cane Martin,Was your question addressed to me? I have never seen the Louisianacanerod. Kurt Loup from mrj@seanet.com Tue Dec 9 23:02:21 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA20106 for Subject: Re: Alternate Cane I thought that it was a "Reed someone who said they had tried theLouisianacane. Sorry if my message went to you. I just sent a reply and I guess I didnot look very well at the "sendee"Sorry.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Alternate Cane Martin,Was your question addressed to me? I have never seen the Louisianacanerod. Kurt Loup from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Tue Dec 9 23:39:42 1997 (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id AAA04687 for ; Subject: Re: Guides On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Rich Jezioro wrote: Tony, How do I contact the fly & rod room 315-689-7896 and what material did you use forthe guides? They sell the wire also. Guide wire packs $1.50/25 pieces or bronze platedat $4/20. Regards, Bob Rich Jezioro At 08:43 AM 12/10/97 +0800, you wrote:I should have mentioned this when I posted re. H&H guides.I got a snake maker from Dave LeClair (The Fly & Rod Room) when I was having trouble with H&H guides. I wasn't expecting too much for the $20-$25 Dave charges for these little snake maker gizmos but theywork great.These gizmos are so simple I was amazed.It takes about 1 try before you start getting good guides the only tricky bit is getting the hang of when to stop turning so you get consistancy from snake to snake and that dosn't take much either.Once you make the guides, you flatten the feet then give the feet the Dremel treatment (or file) and you have good guides. I guess each guide takes about 5 min from staight wire to dremeled feet guide. Not realymuch more trouble than buying them.I'm using Liver of Sulphur to blacken the guides and this looks verymuch like the finish H&H are using only better but Dave also has oxidizing solutions which I can't bring over so can't comment on. I have no financial or related interest with Dave, I'm just happy to tell about someone who sells a good product at a fair price.I just hope he's still making them :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 10 01:20:41 1997 Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:20:34 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Blackening On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Don't answer off-list! I need to know how to use the stuff, also. Ifits not too arduous or toxic I'd like to buy some. Brian Brian,I'm writing off list as David has done ok by me and I don't want to take any wind from his sails as it were.If you find Dave's blackening agent is too toxic try Liver of Sulphur.You can get it from jewlers.If you decide to try it let me know and I'll explain the proceedure as no instructions come with the stuff and if you don't do it right it wont work. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 10 01:26:17 1997 Wed, 10 Dec 1997 15:26:08 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Guides On Wed, 10 Dec 1997, Bob Perry wrote: On Tue, 9 Dec 1997, Rich Jezioro wrote: Tony, How do I contact the fly & rod room 315-689-7896 and what material did you use forthe guides? They sell the wire also. Guide wire packs $1.50/25 pieces or bronzeplatedat $4/20. Regards, Bob All this is true, but wait, there's more! The guide maker comes with some wire to start you off. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 10 07:40:49 1997 Subject: RE:alternative cane - sourcing it RO>A good place to get plants identified, is the local college. Usually theRO>biology dept has someone who can di it. It works for bugs and otherRO>critters too.RO>Rich Jezioro I'll bet they could tell me all I'd want to know about hemp - butbamboo. The local colleges are "CalArts" and College of the Canyons,don't think either has a biology dep't. Don B. RO>>I live near Los Angeles and theres some wild cane of some unknowntypeRO>>growing in the riverbed near my house. I'm not a builder yet myselfandRO>>so haven't bother to cut any, but the time is near. I've just planed myRO>>1st couple of test strips and will be needing to make a bamboo run upRO>>the street soon. My only desire is cheap technique testing materialRO>>unless the stuff looks real good. If it does, I'll run some down toRO>>Darryl H. - he'd be a better judge of value.RO>>RO>>Don B.RO>>RO>>PS - No I haven't got a clue as to type. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 10 08:02:31 1997 Wed, 10 Dec 1997 22:02:02 +0800 (WST) Subject: RE:alternative cane - sourcing it On Wed, 10 Dec 1997 flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>A good place to get plants identified, is the local college. Usually theRO>biology dept has someone who can di it. It works for bugs and otherRO>critters too.RO>Rich Jezioro I'll bet they could tell me all I'd want to know about hemp - butbamboo. The local colleges are "CalArts" and College of the Canyons,don't think either has a biology dep't. Don B. On a different subject, I've found the local high school can be a reasonable source for small dia NS rod if the school does any jewlery work in manual arts type courses. If they do they usually need to purchase a lot more than they need and are sometimes happy to sell a bit off. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 10 08:54:04 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: alternative cane - sourcing it Ted Godfrey wrote: Thank you Jim for the kind words and usefull info! In my spare time which is fast becomming hard to come-by, I am tryingtoresearch species of cane alternative to tonkin. So . . . this message isdirected to those on the list who live in semi-tropical areas of thecountryincluding, I suppose, some wet spots near the border in southern Ca. Three species have been suggested to me: Florida grown (large dia.)Arundinaria gigantea, Bambosa textilis, and Bambusa dissemulator. Ihavenoticed various attempst on the list to make inquiries about alternativebamboo and I suspect that many of us may be of the opinion "why bother". Ibother because I don't like nodes and I have a suspicion (self serving asitmight be) that we have not looked hard enough for alternative materialand/or species may have been disregarded out-of-hand. There are someexamples of rods extant made from the unwashed species, but like UFO'stheyseem to be hard to find, see or touch. I have noticed reference to the Am. Bamboo Soc. in more than one canerodwww site; perhaps someone else has already tried to source the abovespecies!?Anyway, anyone with hands-on knowledge of off-species rods, actuallyworkedwith different species of cane or just generally have an interest in thesubject, please contact me on the list or direct e-mail if you prefer. Note, I have read the mail regarding the alterate strip - LA/tonkin rod. Iwill be checking with the Am. Bamboo Soc. regarding sourcing abovespeciesand report to the list whatever I find. Becoming grayer and more nodeless everyday, Ted. G. Just for your info, there is a list of sources available through theAmerican Bamboo Society at: www.cog.brown.edu/gardening/f2cat.htm#list044 I looked it over and decided that was too in-depth for me, but I hope ithelps you... Harry Boydfbcwin@fsbnet.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 10 09:04:48 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Required reading Ted Godfrey wrote: In case no one has said it lately: BUY THE BEST OF THE PLANING FORM!! Got my copy today - should have had it months ago.... Let me, as a minister, add a big AMEN!! (grin) I should have boughtthis book right after Wayne's, and before Garrisons's, had I simply beeninterested in marching through the process of making a rod. I'm glad tohave half a dozen or so rod making books, but "The Best Of..." is nearthe top for inexperienced, non-technical do-it-yourselfers.... Harry Boyd from Canerods@aol.com Wed Dec 10 10:00:29 1997 Subject: Re: Knurling winding checks You willneed to tell them you want their catalog for rod making - theyaskedme for my fed. gun license #. Don B. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Dec 10 10:32:12 1997 Subject: Re: Required reading -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Required reading Ted Godfrey wrote: In case no one has said it lately: BUY THE BEST OF THE PLANING FORM!! Got my copy today - should have had it months ago.... Let me, as a minister, add a big AMEN!! (grin) I should have boughtthis book right after Wayne's, and before Garrisons's, had I simply beeninterested in marching through the process of making a rod. I'm glad tohave half a dozen or so rod making books, but "The Best Of..." is nearthe top for inexperienced, non-technical do-it-yourselfers.... Harry Boyd Harry: I like Wayne's as well, but the "Best of . . ." provides some added materialand a variety of opinions - various ways of skinning the cat so to speak. I had a copy of Garrison's and will get a new copy now that we are settlingin - had a house fire - mostly in the basement shop here last Marchresulting in wet, sooty books and the loss of house contents due toincredible smoke damage. I kept Wayne's book despite some cosmetic typedamage, but gave- up on cleaning up Garrison since the covers were badlywarped and pages crinkled from the water. I tell members of our TU chapter and I suppose I should dare to be preachy- watch those chemicals, wood, and plastic around the house. The plasticwasthe worst - I had about 100 pounds of delrin and other plastics plus theusual acetone and mineral spirits in the shop area. The smoke was verycorrosive; in a couple minutes it rusted a new fly tying vice, lamp fixturesand even etched antique china in the family room. The family room wasaway from the fire, kept dry - no fire hoses, and the temp. there never got above90 deg. F. Also, took out some files on a hard disc despite the filters inthe disc! In the shop itself, the heat - melted the aluminum drive wheeloff an old Sheldon lathe I had and made pools of aluminum on the floor outof a dozen three pound blocks of 6061. from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 10 10:41:29 1997 Subject: Re: alternative cane - sourcing it In a message dated 97-12-10 10:40:05 EST, you write: On a different subject, I've found the local high school can be a reasonable source for small dia NS rod if the school does any jewlery work in manual arts type courses. If they do they usually need to purchase a lot more than they need and are sometimes happy to sell abit off. You can also find NS at jewelry making supply stores, but it's mostlywire and sheet. You could possibly talk to them about a special orderof what you need through their sources. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Dec 10 10:49:52 1997 Subject: Re: Straight vs Compound Taper Walt - To really answer your question would require a book, not an e- mail.Idon't claim to have all the answers, or even most of them. My take is this;atruly straight taper is OK for spinning rods, but not for fly rods, the tipwill feel unresponsive. A straight taper with a drop in the tip area will befine, and can be fast or slow depending on the slope of the taper. Ingeneral,such rods are relatively easy to cast. Various enhancements in weightreduction or casting performance can be achieved with compound tapers,butsometimes more concentration or skill will be required of the caster. Ifyouare hand planing, I don't think you will find a compound taper moredifficultto build. from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Wed Dec 10 11:58:07 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, RO>A good place to get plants identified, is the local college. Usually theRO>biology dept has someone who can di it. It works for bugs and otherRO>critters too.RO>Rich Jezioro I'll bet they could tell me all I'd want to know about hemp - butbamboo. The local colleges are "CalArts" and College of the Canyons,don't think either has a biology dep't. Don B. You will need to find a college/university with a plant taxonomist.However, grasses are among the most difficult of plants to identify, andbamboo is yet another level of difficulty. For what its worth, try thebamboo society web page (even though they may be a bit "persnickety," andsimply inquire re bamboo identifications to species. Most likely, theexperts will be at Botanical Gardens and not at Universities/Colleges. TryNew York Botanical Garden, The Chicago Field Museum, The MissouriBotanicalGarden, and similar places. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Dec 10 13:33:08 1997 Subject: alterrnate cane, ag. ext. To all: Seems there remains some intriguing questions about indigenous canespecies.Concerning universities, don't give up until you try it - sort of the samespirit one needs in looking into alternative species. Ag. extension serviceis generally managed by the staff of major state universities and theextension agencies are scattered around the state at least here inMaryland.The agents have considerable interest in local species of all kinds partlybecause Ag. interest in weed control and sometimes interest in thedistribution of non-native species. Speaking of hemp: Has anyone thought of making a rod out of . . . Silly ofcourse, and I have no interest in participating in imbibing that stuff.Can't be used for rod construction - weak, non-dense fibers and it's hardlythe right diameter for splitting. But, wait a minute, hollow builders havea problem: Glue seepage into the hollow core. Best fill it, but with what?Hemp is the answer we have all been waiting for. Think of it; grind up thedry leaves and fill the core (somehow). This finally allows us to feel partof the X generation, display to the world that bamboo is the up-and-comingmaterial of choice, get in trouble with the Fed., and maybe get invited onJohnny Carson (oh I forgot, been replaced by J. something or other -probably a graphite person) well, at least, be invited to the White House. Anyone owning such a rod could find relief at the end of one of thosemiserable blank days astream. Blame the rod for the bad day, cut it intosections and smoke it. We as makers must be cognizant of the needs of allwho might use our rods. Be careful about finishes that might be noxiouswhen smoked, and suitable glue may be an even bigger problem. At firstglance, Tightbond II or hide glue might be best - nice milky looking stuff;can't use resorsenol - far too noxious; and Urac would be a disaster. Halfway through smoking a Urac made rod, what happens? Damn thingdelaminates! from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Wed Dec 10 14:59:01 1997 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 292 0600 Subject: Cork Handles ala Wine Corks While looking at a wine cork the other day, I noticed that someone isnow using cork chips glued together in a matrix layered between two thinsheets of very fine cork. It appeared very strong, flexible, and wellsuited for the purpose. I wonder if anyone has considered if this is apossibility for the future of cork handles as cork prices continue upand quality? It probably is not as romantic as forming your own out ofcork rings but may provide an excellent product. Kind of like switchingto oriented particle board or plywood in the construction business. Jim Kubichek from jfoster@gte.net Wed Dec 10 15:33:46 1997 Subject: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Mike---Gang Suggestion ...It would be nice if some of you clicked OFF your includeoriginal text tag...it's harder to search when there aremultiple,multiple copies of the same text...plus, noconcern to you, butthe storage space is getting expensive$$$.. It's really not that hard to follow the threads if you try..also thesubject you choose helps thread, so when replying use the proper messageto reply to(?). The archives are current for nov. posted a reference (link) to the newmagazine "The Bamboo Fly Rod" on the home page (front page) Got a nice note from Josselin de LESPINAY with the proper title for her(?) bookLA CANNE A MOUCHE. TRAITE PRATIQUE DE CONSTRUCTIONET D'HABILLAGE DES CANNES A MOUCHE. still trying to find the bug in excell hexrod..will post some new tapersas soon as it's fixed...added some new links to rodmakers and others Have a great holliday season Jerry PS : SIR DIf I were in alta loma i'd be making a quick dash for the Kern thisweekend (squawfish) maybe. from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 10 15:34:44 1997 Subject: Re: Straight vs Compound Taper In a message dated 97-12-10 14:59:15 EST, you write: My take is this; atruly straight taper is OK for spinning rods, but not for fly rods, the tipwill feel unresponsive. A straight taper with a drop in the tip area willbefine, and can be fast or slow depending on the slope of the taper. A straight taper with a slope of 2.8 to 3.2 or so will take care of the stiff tip problem, and will also produce a faster rod. The problemwith doing this is it also produces a rod with a large diameter at the handle, and more bamboo weight. Starting to sound like the GarrisonCarmichael book, aren't we? Darryl Hayashida from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Dec 10 15:58:19 1997 Subject: Re: archives Mike---Gang Suggestion ...It would be nice if some of you clicked OFF your includeoriginal text tag...expensive$$$.. Mr Foster, As one who posted questioning Nov. archive, thank you very much for thearchive! And the work on this and so much more!!! Can't be a new question, but perhaps there is an appropriate way for listusers to pay for upkeep? Respectfully, Ted Godfrey from jfoster@gte.net Wed Dec 10 16:49:04 1997 Subject: Re: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" TedThanks for the offer, kill one less fish next year and we'll all becompensated. Not a moral stand, no flames, no old news, just a realization that troutare a vanishing resource. Jerry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 10 18:13:39 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: archives jfoster wrote: TedThanks for the offer, kill one less fish next year and we'll all becompensated. Not a moral stand, no flames, no old news, just a realization that troutare a vanishing resource. Jerry Jerry, that's one of the most noble statements I've heard in a longtime. Thank you. But how do you kill less than zero? (grin) from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 10 18:20:23 1997 Subject: RE:archives RO>still trying to find the bug in excell hexrod..will post some new tapersRO>as soon as it's fixed...RO>added some new links to rodmakers and others RO>Have a great holliday season RO>Jerry Jerry, Thanks for everything you've done to help me get started on my waytowards building my 1st rod. Could you also post the Hexrod in a Lotus123 and/or Quattro format? I can't import the Excell version. I'd loveto post a few tapers to you from rods I'm restoring. Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 10 18:30:14 1997 Subject: Re: Straight vs Compound Taper A straight taper with a slope of 2.8 to 3.2 or so will take care of the stiff tip problem, and will also produce a faster rod. I forgot to say that is 2.8 to 3.2 thousands of an inch (.0028 to .0032)diameter per inch of rod length. I don't like dealing with so many zeros... Darryl Hayashida from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Dec 10 20:20:38 1997 0500 Subject: Re: My wife and I interned at the Cincinnati Zoological Park. The value oftheir botanical collection was many times that of their animalcollection. So if you live near a zoo. . . . FWIWBrian from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Dec 10 20:23:56 1997 0500 Subject: Re: alterrnate cane, ag. ext. Somebody has WAY too much time on his hands!! ;^) from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Dec 10 20:26:04 1997 0500 Subject: Re: archives Thanks Jerry. I was going to say something about saving download time.Now I don't have to. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Dec 10 20:29:41 1997 0500 Subject: Re: archives Maybe we should press TU and FFF to fund research into geneticengineering of salmonids to alter their tastiness downward to, oh, say,.. . grits. Catch and release regs would become a moot issue. Brian from frogs@uslink.net Wed Dec 10 20:39:21 1997 link3.uslink.net (8.8.5/8.7.2) with SMTP id UAA27113 for Subject: Alternative cane. Hi,I've been reading about the possibility of using cane other than tonkin. Myfirst rod was made from Hawaiian cane or so it was called by the personwhosold it to me. It differed from tonkin in having smaller diameter powerfibers than tonkin. There also was more of the white spongy matrix inproportion to the power fibers than you would find in tonkin. The rod wasweaker than a similar rod from tonkin would have been BUT, it wasn't bad.Ithink my brother still fishes with it. Regardless of what kind of cane youuse, an inspection of the end grain will tell you how suitable it will be.The illustration on pages 2 and 3 of Garrison's book should be instructive.On the other hand, if your cane has smaller power fibers, simply increasethe diameter of the stick or, if you want to get fancy, shave off all of thenon-power fiber wood leaving only the outermost fibers. I did this withoneof my favorite rods. I shaved off all the excess wood from the stripleavinga .070" thick strip of the outermost power fibers that I glued to cedarstrips. I then planed the laminated pieces as though they were regularcanestrips. I used resorcinal glue. I used this only in the butt section of an8-1/2 foot rod. The tip was left unlaminated (no cedar, just 6 strips ofcane. I may eventually make a new tip section with cedar.) If you wantedtotake this one step further, you could scorp out sections of the cedar tomake a semi-hollow rod in the manner used by E.C.Powell. He usedintermediate wraps to hold the cane together where there was no cedar (about every 6 inches). I have a 9 ft. 7 wt. E.C.Powell rod that is verynice. Less weight=faster action :-)J. Slivon from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 10 21:44:02 1997 Subject: Re: Straight vs Compound Taper In a message dated 97-12-10 02:29:07 EST, you write: Anyone understand the performance and handling differences betweenstraightand compound taper rods. I would suspect that blanks for straight taperareeasier to build. Are compounds better, if so for what range of use, etc. A straight taper isn't bad. What you usually get is a Garrison-ish action,but with a little stiffer butt section. Compound tapers allow you to dothings like give the rod a softer or stiffer tip, a stronger or weaker midsection, or a more (or less) powerful butt section, depending on what application you are designing for. And don't forget the Cattanach Hinge. Darryl Hayashida from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Dec 10 22:18:23 1997 Subject: Re: Blackening Brian, I make and sell the Payne's Oxidizer that you are talking about.To use it,depending how old the solution is,all you do is: polish the nickel silverpiece,clean it with laquer thinner,acitone,etc. to remove the oils from yourfingerprints,dip into the oxidizer for anywere from 30 to 120 seconds ( depending ontheage ofthe solution,it works faster as it gets older ) then rinse in cold water,drywith a paper towel. If the piece isn't dark enough, dip back into theoxidizer ( make sure the pieceis dry ) for another 30 seconds. You will need to experiment alittle. Youwillknowwhen you have left it in too long,as the piece will turvery dull and youwillhave torepolish and start over again. Yes this solution is nasty. It contains hydrochloric acid and arsenic.Don'tdrinkit and don't spill it on anything,it will eat most anything. If you are interested in the solution contact me at : THE FLY AND RODROOM P.O.BOX 565 ELBRIDGE, NEW YORK 13060 315-689-7896 EVENINGS from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Dec 10 22:24:09 1997 Subject: re: Ag ext. "Time on my hands!!" Right ! - do I detect smoke or flame? Just foolingaround here, my mood is light hearted, how's yours? Best regards, Ted G. from Leessinker@aol.com Wed Dec 10 22:27:56 1997 Subject: Midge Rod Article This may be a trivia question especially for those that collect and readflyfishing magazines.Sometime ago there was an article, I believe it concerned the builder notsomuch the "midge" rods themselves but it am still interested . I believe itwasin a "Flyfishing Quarterly" not sure. Ringing any bells ? I know I had themagazine at one time , just can't seem to track it down.I love the short rod , for the small streams I run across their mostconvenient.I currently have two short rods , a 7' 3Wt. Hexagraph (I can hear thesnickers) it's really beautiful , and a 6' 6" Pac bay 2Wt. . Not much you say I ,agree when compared to Wayne's short tapers . The first time I saw anexamplemy heart went pitter patter , if I ever get forms that will be my firstproject.Thx for the ear.Dewayne from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Dec 10 22:30:53 1997 Subject: Re: Guides Tony, Thanks for the free advertising. I'm glad you like the Snake Maker . Ionly have about a halk dozen left. If any one wants one let me know.You and your family have a wonderfull holiday.Talk to you again. Dave Le Clair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Dec 10 22:30:56 1997 Subject: Re: Guides Rich, Call me evenings or weekends at 315-689-7896 or writeThe Fly and Rod Room P.O.Box 565Elbridge, NY 13060 Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Dec 10 22:40:35 1997 Subject: Re: Blackening Jon,To use the Oxidizder, Polish your n/s piece,clean it withacitone,thinner,etc.to remove any oil from your hands.Then dip into the solution for antwerefrom30 sec. to 120 sec. depending on the age of the solution. It works faster asit ages.After you pull it out of the solution,rinse in cold water and dry with a paper towel.Ifit isnt darkenough, place back in the solution for alittle longer. After you finishozidizing the piece,dry it good and coat it with a clear laquer spray. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Dec 10 22:41:21 1997 Subject: Re: NS in Seattle Davy,I don't know about getting n/s out there,But I carry n/s bar stock andtubing here in NY. If you are interested , fax me your mailing address and Iwill send info. DaveLeClairThe Fly andRod Room from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 10 22:58:41 1997 Subject: Re: Guides RO>Tony, RO> Thanks for the free advertising. I'm glad you like the Snake Maker . IRO>only have about a halk dozen left. If any one wants one let me know.RO> You and your family have a wonderfull holiday.Talk to you again. RO> Dave Le Clair Dave, I think I'll take one - let me email you off list regarding it. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from jfoster@gte.net Wed Dec 10 23:07:02 1997 Subject: Re: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Don Just send the taper and i'll work out the rest Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Wed Dec 10 23:13:30 1997 Subject: Re: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Don Excel won't export in those formats..I think the VB would give you aproblem anyway do you have excel...? Jerry from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 11 00:33:15 1997 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA25141 +0000 Subject: Re: NS in Seattle Have you tried http://www.metalmart.comTheir ad says "No minimum orders" and "Free cutting"I'm not ready to make my own ferrules and reelseats so I'venever ordered from them. George ----------From: Martin Jensen Subject: Re: NS in SeattleDate: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 5:54 PM If you find any please let me know. About 1.5 to 2 years ago I looked andlooked, and looked. I came up with nothing. Oh, if you wanted to buy acouple thousand pounds then there was "no problem". I declined thisoffer.Dave Leclair (on the list) is the last person who I got a small quantityofnickel silver round stock from. I am in Seattle also (Ballard).----- Original Message-----From: Ragnarig Date: Tuesday, December 09, 1997 2:16 PMSubject: NS in Seattle Does anybody know where to get small supplies of nickel-silverbar-and- tubestock in the Seattle-Tacoma area? Thanks,Davy from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Dec 11 02:00:37 1997 Subject: Re: Required reading The Planing form was created for just the purpose that you see in 'TheBest of". It was started so that some could share and others could learn.Gee- something like this list. The purpose of putting the essays into bookformserved a couple of goals - some good - others It is unfortunate but at time folks don't get along - and the rodmakingcircle is simply an extension of life as a whole. To several of the list 'TheBest" was a way to eliminate the fact that others were quite involved ingetting TPF started. The credit for the idea of a newsletter goes to Ernie Conover. This isnot mentioned because the current editors don't have a clue of of where itcame from. It doesn't bother me that Ron chose to completely eliminatethefact that I started the thing or my years of involvement but he should havementioned Ernie. Wayne from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Thu Dec 11 08:48:48 1997 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu,11 Dec 1997 08:50:42 CST Subject: flame bait How to be known as a yankee: impugn the flavor of grits. Watch it, Brian!:^) - Grayson from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Thu Dec 11 08:55:29 1997 Subject: NS source was: alternative cane - sourcing it At 11:19 AM 12/10/97 EST, Darryl wrote: You can also find NS at jewelry making supply stores, but it's mostlywire and sheet. You could possibly talk to them about a special orderof what you need through their sources. One of the best sources for NS is knife making supply houses. They carrysheet, bar and rod stock. If anyone needs a couple of phone numbers justcontact me off list. Later,Johnny------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Thu Dec 11 09:02:06 1997 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu,11 Dec 1997 09:03:58 CST Subject: Snakemaker Dave, I love my snakemaker, but I need directions for plating. I understandthat you use nickel and bronze. Any chance of on/off line directions?-Grayson from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Dec 11 09:06:06 1997 10:06:13 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: archives As a new RM lister I can chime in on the archives since I have recently finished reading all of them (!). Because it is a listserve the archives tend to be listed in order of posting and the threads are scattered throughout the archives. Without included text it is very difficult to follow who is responding to what or to keep track of the threads. If it were possible to organize the archives by subject thread like the UseNet newsgroups this would eliminate the need for included text in the archives altogether. Certainly the cost of drive space is an important factor but the extractability of the information is also important. I don't know the feasibility of the solution I listed above here as I am only about half computer literate (enough to be dangerous). Just another point of view. On another note, it would be helpful if the list members would sign their posts in some way (name, handle, whatever: I prefer real names). Since the list functions on a remail basis the only thing I get when I read the message is the listserve address so there is no way to know who is saying what unless you include your name. Most people do but I think some either forget or assume it shows up in the "From" box on the email program.ORN: (lifted from Mike B.'s posts in archives) tested my oven last night (self design) and had my wife in a whirl about whether I was going to burn down the house or not. Result: house still standing, oven works well.Cheers.Jon McAnulty from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Dec 11 09:45:37 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0); Thu,11Dec 1997 10:46:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Cork Handles ala Wine Corks I don't know who talked about this idea first, but I first heard of it from Tom Smithwick in Roscoe....something to the point of getting wasted....so wasted to make a grip...lets see...about 1/8" of usable cork per champagne bottle...so a 6" grip would take 48 bottles....come on Tom, we can do it! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Dec 11 09:52:14 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Required reading Yesterday I took my nearly complete first bamboo rod to the local flyshop to fit some tip tops. One of the local flunkies said somethinglike - "You know this makes you a level five flyfishing nut, huh? Rightup there with the elite, deity. The only level above those who tietheir own flies, and fish only dry flies with bamboo rods they have madethemselves is level six - legend. That only applies to Lee Wulff and afew others." Though it was said in jest, I beamed with pridenonetheless.To those of us who are infants in this craft, all of you, and I meanall of you, who have built your own rods for some time are in that sixthlevel, legends. You don't all agree on everything, but not everyoneagree with Lee Wulff's emphasis on small rods, or catch and release.Beginners are hungry for gleanings from your fields of wisdom andexperience. We sit at your feet as disciples. We want to shower eachof you who help us along the way with all the gratitude, respect, andcredit you are due. Many of us have never met you face to face, only though yourwritings,brochures, reputations, and postings to this list. If we fail, throughinnocent ignorance, to point credit in the right direction, we offer oursincere apologies. That you are willing to respond to us peronally withyour valuable time awes us, and inspires us to one day do the same forothers when we have gained more experience, paid our dues.My hope is that every forum for the exchange of rodmakinginformationand ideas will grow and prosper. I hope this list gives as muchpleasure tothe other readers as it does to me. I would never havestarted this journey without Wayne C.'s written guidance, and though wehave never met, I consider him a mentor and future friend. Neverstarting would have been a great personal loss. Each time we lose oneof the contributors to this list, those of us who are still beginnersconsider that a loss as well.I hope The Planing Form grows and prospers. I even hope the newBambooMagazine will meet some of its lofty goals. Let's keep the information freely flowing. I don't know whose ideathis whole thing was, but I do know it was a good one! I know I'm beingthoroughly American in saying so, but the free flow of information is apillar of our society. Harry Boyd Wayne Catt wrote: The Planing form was created for just the purpose that you see in'TheBest of". It was started so that some could share and others could learn.Gee- something like this list. The purpose of putting the essays into bookformserved a couple of goals - some good - othersIt is unfortunate but at time folks don't get along - and the rodmakingcircle is simply an extension of life as a whole. To several of the list'TheBest" was a way to eliminate the fact that others were quite involved ingetting TPF started.The credit for the idea of a newsletter goes to Ernie Conover. This isnot mentioned because the current editors don't have a clue of of whereitcame from. It doesn't bother me that Ron chose to completely eliminatethefact that I started the thing or my years of involvement but he shouldhavementioned Ernie. Wayne from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Dec 11 10:27:22 1997 Subject: Re: Required reading Harry Boyd wrote: Many of us have never met you face to face, only though your writings,brochures, reputations, and postings to this list. If we fail, throughinnocent ignorance, to point credit in the right direction, we offer oursincere apologies. That you are willing to respond to us peronally withyour valuable time awes us, and inspires us to one day do the same forothers when we have gained more experience, paid our dues. Hear - Hear . . . Ted Godfrey from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Dec 11 10:34:24 1997 Subject: Re: Guides Dave, I have been off the list for a few weeks. Can you explain what thesnake maker is, and the price? Off list is fine. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: LECLAIR123 Subject: Re: GuidesDate: Wednesday, December 10, 1997 8:08 PM Tony, Thanks for the free advertising. I'm glad you like the Snake Maker .Ionly have about a halk dozen left. If any one wants one let me know.You and your family have a wonderfull holiday.Talk to you again. Dave Le Clair from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Thu Dec 11 12:01:26 1997 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 295 0600 Subject: Re: Cork Handles ala Wine Corks Actually, I didnt mean that we would us the actual corks but that someonemay develop a similar process as in the new wine corks (ie the gluedtogether particles with the high quality outer layer) that would create avariety of cork handle styles for our flyrods. Jim Kubichek from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Dec 11 12:10:42 1997 Subject: Re: NS in Seattle George Thanks for the info on Metalmart! They seem to be a good source for lotsofdifferent metals; however, they don't handle 18% NS- only 12% :-( But if somebody wanted small quantities for reel seats etc., they shouldcallthem @ 800-657-0721 Davy from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 11 12:12:36 1997 Subject: Re: Ag ext. Quite light. from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Thu Dec 11 13:37:00 1997 (may be forged)) Subject: flame bait RO>How to be known as a yankee: impugn the flavor of grits. Watch it,Brian!RO>:^) - Grayson As a chef on PBS said recently "You can go south and have a bowl ofgrits for about $1.00, or you can go to Southern France or Italy andhave polenta for the equivalent of $22.50. Grayson, I'm a Yankee located in Arkansas for 27 years, so down here I'mknown as a DAMN YANKEE. I won't go home! (At least not until I catchone of those world record trout in one of these Arkansas rivers.) But Igrew up on grits. So don't impugn us DAMN YANKEE's. Dick Fuhrman from Canerods@aol.com Thu Dec 11 15:42:02 1997 Subject: Re: alterrnate cane, ag. ext. In a message dated 97-12-11 11:23:37 EST, you write: Been sitting too close to the MEK bottle, have we? Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 11 16:52:58 1997 Subject: Bleached Blonde? This is just idle curiosity, but has anyone tried removingwatermarks and stains from a culm by using bleach? get greater yield from culms that would otherwise haveto be rejected. If it works, is this even ethical to sell since most buyers would believe the cane is superiordue to it's even coloring? Darryl Hayashida from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Dec 11 17:04:44 1997 Subject: Re: Classic Tapers Dear Listers This is not a particularly important rod in any historical/engineeringsense,but it is a fine little light trout rod of the type which many fishermen(salmonidus indigensis) tend to like. Including me! So here it is. 7' This rod was made by Farlow's in Aberdeen (Scotland) in the 60's(guessing) wrappings- no intermediates. No significant set in either tip, but notmuchuse evident, either. The varnish is brushed and rubbed out, so maybe about5- 6/1,000ths thick, total. Guides are very standard stuff: from tip; 4 3/4, 12 1/4, 19 5/8, 28 7/8,377/8, 49 1/2 and 62 1/2 would be the stripper. 1 .0925 .10310 .11615 .13020 .14425 .16130 .17535 .161 40 .20045 ferrule50 .23055 .24960 .26965 .28470 .30275 .323 The handle is a total 9 3/4" long with a 6 1/8" cigar cork grip. Back nextweek with a Thomas salmon rod and a Cross double-built! Buena pesca,Davy from lblan@provide.net Thu Dec 11 17:39:35 1997 Subject: Re: flame bait Grayson, I'm a Yankee located in Arkansas for 27 years, so down here I'mknown as a DAMN YANKEE. I won't go home! (At least not until I catchone of those world record trout in one of these Arkansas rivers.) But Igrew up on grits. So don't impugn us DAMN YANKEE's. Far be it from me to impugn, but we really didn't need the confession toknow you are a yankee. Us boys from Mississippi learned early on thatdamnyankee is one word! : ) Still love grits, even in Detroit..... from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Dec 11 18:14:49 1997 Fri, 12 Dec 1997 08:14:39 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: flame bait On 11 Dec 1997 dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: RO>How to be known as a yankee: impugn the flavor of grits. Watch it,Brian!RO>:^) - Grayson As a chef on PBS said recently "You can go south and have a bowl ofgrits for about $1.00, or you can go to Southern France or Italy andhave polenta for the equivalent of $22.50. OK, now I know what grits is (are?). I was wondering if McDonalds could market it. Maybe the Quarter Bucket? :-O Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Thu Dec 11 19:24:42 1997 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Darryl no less ethical than flaming to hide the same said imperfections? Jerry couldn't the bleach have some serious chem reaction with the lig? Have you tried it yourself? from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 11 19:25:14 1997 Subject: resorcinol I know you are supposed to be able to buy resorcinol otc at any hardwarestore, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone have a connection or abrand name to be looking for?Appreciate any help. Brian > p.s. If I don't find resorcinol, does anyone know how much open time Ihave to work with these grits? ;^) from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 11 20:20:48 1997 Subject: Re: re: Ag ext. Hey Ted ,you must be testing that stuff out :-),Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 11 20:21:00 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Straight vs Compound Taper Walt and Tom,This is not a flame at Tom but I would note that a fine tip straighttaperhas a responsive tip. Most of my straight tapered rods have tips startingat.065 or less. Compound tapers mean different things to differentpeople-a parabolic taper starts fairly steeply and flattens out over thetaperwhich gives an action down into the butt with a responsive tip. It takessomegetting used to-I didn't like the first one I made but I do now. You can takethat parabolic or barrel shaped taper and make a double or triple barrelshaped taper over the taper- one of the Orvis canes I am familiar with hadadouble barrel taper and I didn't like the action-others did-it comes downtowhat pleases you. Walt if you don't understand the above I graph my tapersstarting at the tip on the left with length horizontally and thicknessvertically every 5 inches. Hope this helps.Hank. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Dec 11 20:25:32 1997 Fri, 12 Dec 1997 10:25:20 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: resorcinol On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: I know you are supposed to be able to buy resorcinol otc at any hardwarestore, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone have a connection or abrand name to be looking for?Appreciate any help. Brian > p.s. If I don't find resorcinol, does anyone know how much open time Ihave to work with these grits? ;^) Obviously I don't know any brands over your way but if you have no luck with a hardware store (what's the world coming to?) try a chandlery. Is that instant or regular gits you're trying? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Dec 11 21:02:13 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA8809 +0000 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? I, for one, would consider it to be perfectly ethical because:1) you are removing a stain, not hiding a structural defect2) you are killing molds and mildews, so it actually IS superior3) how is it any less ethical from DARKENING the cane by FLAMING itto aneven color?Anyway, that is my two cents worth...George Bourke ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Bleached Blonde?Date: Thursday, December 11, 1997 2:27 PM This is just idle curiosity, but has anyone tried removingwatermarks and stains from a culm by using bleach? get greater yield from culms that would otherwise haveto be rejected. If it works, is this even ethical to sell since most buyers would believe the cane is superiordue to it's even coloring? Darryl Hayashida from russett@bcn.net Thu Dec 11 22:08:36 1997 adams.berk.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA23417 for Subject: Re: Classic Tapers Ragnarig wrote: Guides are very standard stuff: from tip; 4 3/4, 12 1/4, 19 5/8, 28 7/8,377/8, 49 1/2 and 62 1/2 would be the stripper. 1 .0925 .10310 .11615 .13020 .14425 .16130 .17535 .16140 .20045 ferrule50 .23055 .24960 .26965 .28470 .30275 .323 The handle is a total 9 3/4" long with a 6 1/8" cigar cork grip. Back nextweek with a Thomas salmon rod and a Cross double-built! Buena pesca,Davy WHAT WEIGHT LINE DOES THIS CAST? from stpete@netten.net Thu Dec 11 22:27:10 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA08154 for; Thu, 11 Dec 1997 22:40:02 -0600 Subject: Re: Grits Suh, I mean no discredit, but, for your information, no real Southerner withany self respect would dare to call that overprocessed "instant" cerealGRITS. Additionally, Suh, anyone seasoning their grits with anythingother than butter, pepper, or Red-eye gravy is suspect as well. As for the discussion on alternative canes, I was handed a culm of greenMississippi grown cane which was approximately 1-1/2" in diameter. Thepower fibers were not very dense and the "heft" of the cane was fairlylight for green stock. I am not familiar enough with the grasses toname the cultivar or even the species, but even my inexperienced handscould tell it is inferior material to Tonkin. Given the time requiredto produce a quality rod, why bother with inferior raw materials? Evenif it is grown here in Dixie? I say we stick to cotton, rice andsoybeans. Buy the bamboo in China. Respectfully, Richard Beauregard Crenshaw from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Dec 11 22:27:21 1997 Subject: Blonde Rod Jokes I'm sure that there are several out there adapting the 'blonde' jokes thatwe all have heard to the fly rod version. It would be interesting to see ifthe spots could be bleached out - I have seen a few woodworking productsdesigned for this purpose. But this thread brings up a question that I have had for years - what isthe ratio of blonde to flamed rods being produced today. I am certain thattheflamed out number the blonde but by how many. In the past I have quessedthatit might be as high as 75% - 25%. Perhaps a poll is in order. I have made alist of about 25 rod makers and deciphered about how many each producesandthe flavor. But to add to that a sample from the list would round out thefigures. A report of the findings will follow.On another issue - does anyone know the official weight (in grains orounces) of a putting head. Golf and I parted back in college - I bid farewell relaxing - I don't buy that. Wayne PS - Do you know why you have to store a blonde rod in a padded rod tube - Idon't know - I don't know from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 11 22:37:26 1997 Subject: Re: resorcinol D9D85DEA6590CF0267EA21AC" --------------D9D85DEA6590CF0267EA21AC Oh God, they don't really make instant grits, do they?You could get the same effect with . . . . no. I'll be nice to allthe grit loving list members. They deserve it.(Must of had terrible childhoods to actually eat that stuff of their ownvolition.) ;-} Brian --------------D9D85DEA6590CF0267EA21AC Oh God, they don't really make instant grits, do it.(Must of had terrible childhoods to actuallyeat that stuff of their own volition.) ;-} Brian --------------D9D85DEA6590CF0267EA21AC-- from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 11 22:38:36 1997 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? Would you use chlorine bleach or oxalic acid wood bleach? from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Dec 11 22:58:44 1997 Subject: Re: [1] Straight vs Compound Taper boundary="=====================_881907601==_" --=====================_881907601==_ At 21:00 11/12/97 EST, you wrote:Walt and Tom,This is not a flame at Tom but I would note that a fine tip straighttaperhas a responsive tip. Most of my straight tapered rods have tips startingat.065 or less. Compound tapers mean different things to differentpeople-a parabolic taper starts fairly steeply and flattens out over thetaperwhich gives an action down into the butt with a responsive tip. It takessomegetting used to-I didn't like the first one I made but I do now. You cantakethat parabolic or barrel shaped taper and make a double or triple barrelshaped taper over the taper- one of the Orvis canes I am familiar withhad adouble barrel taper and I didn't like the action-others did-it comes downtowhat pleases you. Walt if you don't understand the above I graph mytapersstarting at the tip on the left with length horizontally and thicknessvertically every 5 inches. Hope this helps.Hank. Hank, Walt & Tom, If you graph the differences between the stations @ 5" increments youwillfind that fast end of a para rod will be about 0.018/5" of travel whereasthe butt maybe as low as 0.010"/5" of travel.Attached is an Excel spreadsheet for a Paul Young Para -15 thatillustratesthe point. The lower graph is the difference. Hope this helps. regards, Don--=====================_881907601==_ x-mac-type="584C5334"; x-mac-creator="5843454C" 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from jczimny@dol.net Thu Dec 11 23:24:40 1997 Subject: Re: resorcinol Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: I know you are supposed to be able to buy resorcinol otc at any hardwarestore, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone have a connection or abrand name to be looking for?Appreciate any help. Brian > p.s. If I don't find resorcinol, does anyone know how much open time Ihave to work with these grits? ;^)Get it from Custom-Pak Adhesives, Columbus OhioJohn Zimny from rmoon@dns.ida.net Thu Dec 11 23:57:37 1997 Subject: Re: Grits I agree on instant vs. real grits. And I thank you for finally helping mesee the light. I could never figure out why my wife (SOUTHERN) alwaysthrewthe pan at me when I poured maple syrup over my grits. Ralph (DAMYANKY) from tedgodfreys@erols.com Fri Dec 12 00:25:06 1997 Subject: Re: re: Ag ext. -----Original Message----- Hey Ted ,you must be testing that stuff out :-),Hank. Oh, Hank, not at all; smoking is bad for the health. . . Don had it: MEK.Just kidding. Responsibility for the hemp bandwidth lies with mostlytoxic-free me. Have a happy day, Ted G. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Fri Dec 12 00:25:08 1997 Subject: Re: resorcinol -----Original Message----- I know you are supposed to be able to buy resorcinol otc at any hardwarestore, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone have a connection or abrand name to be looking for? I looked in my MSC catalog - surprised it wasn't there as I am used todepending on them for ever increasing variety of stuff. I'm going to localhardware store tomorrow, will check out resorcinol for my own needs, andreport back what is available at this end. Happy to ship to you - nobiggie. Best regards, Ted G. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Fri Dec 12 00:47:40 1997 Subject: Re: Grits -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Grits Suh, I mean no discredit, but, for your information, no real Southerner withany self respect would dare to call that overprocessed "instant" cerealGRITS. Additionally, Suh, anyone seasoning their grits with anythingother than butter, pepper, or Red-eye gravy is suspect as well. Thank you for the input! Mistakenly I thought that the South createdinstant grits to ship to yankees in vicious retaliation for The War. . . .please pass the MEK. Richard, thank you for your input about Miss. grown cane. May I assumethatthis was a fairly mature culm - a representative piece? Best regards, Ted G. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Dec 12 01:56:35 1997 Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:56:03 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Grits On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Ralph W Moon wrote: I agree on instant vs. real grits. And I thank you for finally helping mesee the light. I could never figure out why my wife (SOUTHERN) alwaysthrewthe pan at me when I poured maple syrup over my grits. Ralph (DAMYANKY) Hang on a minute, you mean there realy is such a thing as instant grits?Sounds like the Quarter Bucket, fries and a Coke isn't that far off after all. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fer@surfplanet.com Fri Dec 12 06:25:36 1997 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA09904 for; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 12:27:51 GMT Subject: Re: archives Great point, Jerry. I suppose in the US catch and release is the norm.Unfortunately here in Spain we still have to afford the big battle toconvince people to catch and release. We still have good salmonidresourcesbut is getting down bit a bit. Two years ago I was so lucky that two crazyatlantic salmons took my fly at the end of a marvelous pool at the Narceariver in Asturias (north Spain), and when I was returning to the waters thesecond one, the river guard told me that he had only seen one person doingthat: It was in 1974, an american fly fisherman who was in Spain for hissummer holidays. Long way to do. Fernando Rada from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Dec 12 07:00:26 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Blonde Rod Jokes I have made 7 rods to date, all of which are flamed. All but 2 areextremely dark. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp:\\www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: Wayne Catt [SMTP:WayneCatt@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, December 11, 1997 11:14 PM Subject: Blonde Rod Jokes Perhaps a poll is in order. from stpete@netten.net Fri Dec 12 07:37:49 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id HAA01314 for; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 07:50:52 -0600 Subject: Re: Grits Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: stpete - Richard B. Crenshaw Subject: Re: Grits Suh, I mean no discredit, but, for your information, no real Southerner withany self respect would dare to call that overprocessed "instant" cerealGRITS. Additionally, Suh, anyone seasoning their grits with anythingother than butter, pepper, or Red-eye gravy is suspect as well. Thank you for the input! Mistakenly I thought that the South createdinstant grits to ship to yankees in vicious retaliation for The War. . . .please pass the MEK. Richard, thank you for your input about Miss. grown cane. May I assumethatthis was a fairly mature culm - a representative piece? Best regards, Ted G. Ted, Re: By "The War", I assume you are talking about the War of NorthernAggression. Yes, I think the cane was mature. RBC P.S. BTW, I hope y'all recognize tongue-in-cheek responses. Justtrying to keep things light. They got a little heavy there. Rick from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Dec 12 08:02:11 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 12Dec 1997 09:03:24 -0500 Subject: Fergus This is a little off topic but since things have lightened up I think it will be ok. Is there fishing opportunities the week or so before the Fergus gathering? I would like to build a rod to fish with up there. What would be a good weight/length? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Dec 12 08:02:13 1997 Subject: Re: archives In a message dated 12/12/97 6:13:32 AM, you wrote: Jerry - The book is great, but you have to be able to read French. I've heardthe French are a bit different, but I'm not sure how Mr. deLespinay wouldreact to the gender question. -- Tom from maiello@yorku.ca Fri Dec 12 08:03:51 1997 (x4ViDTJCI8mLyebae/j5k6sXzuZOSVcZ@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA07879 for ; Subject: Re: Blonde Rod Jokes 3 rods so far,all blonde.Mauro from Thomas.ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Fri Dec 12 08:13:14 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id JAA31967 for; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 09:13:11 -0500 Subject: Blonde rods Hello,2 rods done, 3 in the works... all blonde. t from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Dec 12 09:14:39 1997 Fri, 12 Dec 1997 23:14:32 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Blonde rods All mine are dark honey blonde. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@jlc.net Fri Dec 12 09:25:45 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA07831 for Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? jfoster wrote: Darryl no less ethical than flaming to hide the same said imperfections? Jerry couldn't the bleach have some serious chem reaction with the lig? Have you tried it yourself?Speaking of bleached blondes, the guardhairs from a patch of bleachedblonde beaver pelt make excellent dryfly tails, the underfur makessuperb Cahil dubbing.Reed from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Fri Dec 12 09:38:13 1997 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri,12 Dec 1997 09:40:01 CST Subject: Re:grits How to tell if you are a yankee:1) don't like grits2) eat instant grits (see 1)3) when not very hungry ask waitress for just one grit4) meager pronunciation of "grits" with only one syllable.- Grayson (refugee of Virginia, exiled to Indiana) from rcurry@jlc.net Fri Dec 12 09:44:12 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id KAA08163 for Subject: Re: archives - C&R thread, please unwind Fernando Rada wrote: Great point, Jerry. I suppose in the US catch and release is the norm. Fernando,You are probably not aware that Catch and Release (called, amongothernames, Torture and Toss, by detractors) is still a highly controverialsubject in North America. It raises serious questions, drifting throughthe realms of ethics, aesthetics, religion, fisheries management, etc.Since feelings run very high on this subject, I would suggest we avoidit for this list, which is primarily concerned with rodmaking, a subjectthat usually is quite amicably discussed.Best regards,Reed from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Dec 12 09:53:35 1997 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA00761 for; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:51:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Blonde rods ----------I make dark honey blonde rods too Carsten from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Dec 12 09:54:36 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: grits I thought that the definition of a Yankee was "the same as a quickie,but a guy can do it alone." ----------From: GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU[SMTP:GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU] Sent: Friday, December 12, 1997 7:40 AM Subject: Re:grits How to tell if you are a yankee:1) don't like grits2) eat instant grits (see 1)3) when not very hungry ask waitress for just one grit4) meager pronunciation of "grits" with only one syllable.- Grayson (refugee of Virginia, exiled to Indiana) from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Dec 12 09:57:43 1997 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id QAA00754 for; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 16:51:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Grits ----------From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: GritsDate: 12. december 1997 08:56 On Thu, 11 Dec 1997, Ralph W Moon wrote: I agree on instant vs. real grits. And I thank you for finally helpingmesee the light. I could never figure out why my wife (SOUTHERN) alwaysthrewthe pan at me when I poured maple syrup over my grits. Ralph (DAMYANKY) Hang on a minute, you mean there realy is such a thing as instant grits?Sounds like the Quarter Bucket, fries and a Coke isn't that far off after all. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ Being an ignorant european, somebody please tell me: What is GRITS? HowdoI use it in my rodmaking? Is it for bait-casting, or do I take it justbefore going fishing, (presuming it is edible, ofcourse) Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Dec 12 09:59:48 1997 Subject: Re: resorcinol I purchased Resorcinal out of the MSC catalog just a couple of weeks ago. Look again, it should be there. Robert Clarke ----------From: Ted Godfrey Subject: Re: resorcinolDate: Thursday, December 11, 1997 10:22 PM -----Original Message-----From: Brian & Michelle Creek I know you are supposed to be able to buy resorcinol otc at anyhardwarestore, but I can't find it anywhere. Anyone have a connection or abrand name to be looking for? I looked in my MSC catalog - surprised it wasn't there as I am used todepending on them for ever increasing variety of stuff. I'm going tolocalhardware store tomorrow, will check out resorcinol for my own needs,andreport back what is available at this end. Happy to ship to you - nobiggie. Best regards, Ted G. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Dec 12 10:12:16 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: flame bait Tony Young wrote: On 11 Dec 1997 dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: RO>How to be known as a yankee: impugn the flavor of grits. Watch it,Brian!RO>:^) - Grayson As a chef on PBS said recently "You can go south and have a bowl ofgrits for about $1.00, or you can go to Southern France or Italy andhave polenta for the equivalent of $22.50. OK, now I know what grits is (are?). I was wondering if McDonalds couldmarket it. Maybe the Quarter Bucket? :-O Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ Hey Tony,In Louisiana, McDonald does market grits!! from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Dec 12 10:19:41 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Grits Ralph W Moon wrote: I agree on instant vs. real grits. And I thank you for finally helping mesee the light. I could never figure out why my wife (SOUTHERN) alwaysthrewthe pan at me when I poured maple syrup over my grits. Ralph (DAMYANKY) Ralph, you can't get much more Southern than Louisiana, and aroundthese parts, although maple syrup is taboo, Steen's Pure Ribbon CANESyrup is kosher. Just trying to create a little marital harmony...Harry Boyd from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Dec 12 10:32:23 1997 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? Jerry writes:Darrylno less ethical than flaming to hide the same said imperfections? With flaming you can see that it has been flamed, and if you lookclosely, you can still see the imperfections, they are just highlightsand variations in a dark background. couldn't the bleach have some serious chem reaction with the lig?Have you tried it yourself? I haven't tried it myself, that's why I am asking the list, and I alsodon't know if it will adversely affect the bamboo. Then Brian writes:Would you use chlorine bleach or oxalic acid wood bleach? I probably would try the wood bleach first since bamboo ismore like wood than clothes, but who knows? maybe chlorinebleach will work. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Dec 12 10:49:04 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Cork Handles ala Wine Corks In a message dated 12/12/97 4:02:01 PM, you wrote: Well, actually Jon, you get about 3/8 inches of good cork, so it would onlytake about 20 bottles. No problem from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Dec 12 10:53:13 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? SalarFly wrote: Jerry writes:Darrylno less ethical than flaming to hide the same said imperfections? With flaming you can see that it has been flamed, and if you lookclosely, you can still see the imperfections, they are just highlightsand variations in a dark background. couldn't the bleach have some serious chem reaction with the lig?Have you tried it yourself? I haven't tried it myself, that's why I am asking the list, and I alsodon't know if it will adversely affect the bamboo. Then Brian writes:Would you use chlorine bleach or oxalic acid wood bleach? I probably would try the wood bleach first since bamboo ismore like wood than clothes, but who knows? maybe chlorinebleach will work. Darryl Hayashida Darryl, if you try it, please give us a report. I'd be curious. Maybethat is a way to make some less than top-grade cane look OK.Harry Boyd from harry37@epix.net Fri Dec 12 11:03:06 1997 MAA16325 Subject: Re: grits GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU wrote: How to tell if you are a yankee:1) don't like grits2) eat instant grits (see 1)3) when not very hungry ask waitress for just one grit4) meager pronunciation of "grits" with only one syllable.- Grayson (refugee of Virginia, exiled to Indiana) Us Yankees also don't know what grits really are, too! You're rightabout #4! Greg Kuntz from rhd360@maine.maine.edu Fri Dec 12 11:03:47 1997 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 12 Dec 97 12:03:19 EST Subject: Wiring a "dry box" I have been using a box to hang rod sections after varnishing. To date,these were rods being refinished. Now that I'm starting the plunge in"Level 5" and making new rods, I also have a need to rest rod sectionsafter glueing. The box is a foot square and about 5' tall, and made ofpine. I was thinking of adding heat by installing a light fixture in thebottom of the box with a low wattage bulb (eg 40W). I'm assuming thiswillwork, yield an ambient temp of about 70-75 degrees, which would beperfect,and would mean I no longer have to heat the whole room (which isnormallylike good brook trout habitat and about 60 degrees). Does anyone use asimilar approach? I have a porcelain light fixture, a steel elec box to mount it in, aregular wall switch with a box to mount it in, all stuff hanging around theshop. I'm guessing I could wire this all up with a length of 14 gaugeextension core (with ground wire). I'd prefer not starting another fire inthe house, and my partner would appreciate that as well. So any advicewould be appreciated. Bob. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Dec 12 11:46:54 1997 LAA08761 for ; Fri, 12 Dec 1997 11:46:51 - (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id LAA12525 for ; Subject: Re: Wiring a "dry box" I made a similar box, and I heat it with a 150W floodlamp bulb in aporcelain socket. That seems to raise the temp about 10 degrees F.My box has plastic sheeting for three sides, so a wooden box mayhave more insulating properties and a lower wattage bulb would be sufficient. I also put a small muffin fan on the outside, which pushes airinto the box through a doubled layer of furnace filter material.In theory, clean air pushes dirty air out the cracks carrying any dust with it. I also spray down the inside of the box with a plant mister with soapy water, to catch some of the dust. Can Iprove it works? No... With the fan running, though, the inside temp doesn't go up all of 10 degrees. So what I do is run both the fan and light for an houruntil the varnish is tack free, then turn off the fan. Of courseyou won't need the fan for curing glue. My wife saw this phone booth-like thing glowing and humming inthe basement, and accused me of making another woman. You couldsay so.........................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Robert Milardo wrote: I have been using a box to hang rod sections after varnishing. To date,these were rods being refinished. Now that I'm starting the plunge in"Level 5" and making new rods, I also have a need to rest rod sectionsafter glueing. The box is a foot square and about 5' tall, and made ofpine. I was thinking of adding heat by installing a light fixture in thebottom of the box with a low wattage bulb (eg 40W). I'm assuming thiswillwork, yield an ambient temp of about 70-75 degrees, which would beperfect,and would mean I no longer have to heat the whole room (which isnormallylike good brook trout habitat and about 60 degrees). Does anyone use asimilar approach? from tedgodfreys@erols.com Fri Dec 12 12:17:07 1997 Subject: Re: Grits -----Original Message----- Being an ignorant european, somebody please tell me: What is GRITS? HowdoI use it in my rodmaking> Grits (not instant) are edible and may prove to be a good substitute forembargoed hemp - used to fill core of hollow-built rods. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Fri Dec 12 12:17:08 1997 Subject: Re: resorcinol -----Original Message----- I purchased Resorcinal out of the MSC catalog just a couple of weeks ago. Thank you Robert - couldn't see it right in front of me - page 1594. Note: Price at local hardware store was higher than that of MSC - typical! from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Dec 12 12:38:52 1997 Subject: Re: Grits RO>-----Original Message-----RO>From: Carsten Jorgensen RO>>Being an ignorant european, somebody please tell me: What is GRITS?How doRO>I use it in my rodmaking> RO>Grits (not instant) are edible and may prove to be a good substitute forRO>embargoed hemp - used to fill core of hollow-built rods. Carsten, Grits are best when cooked in the deep-deep south by someone who's gotthe same genepool on both sides of the family. But do NOT eat the homity grits served in VA! Just joking! Grits are a hot corn-meal breakfast side dish. They can be excellentwhen served with butter. Best I've ever had were homemade and served atan Amish colony restaurant (the Good n' Plenty?) in the heart of dixie.(in Alabama) And also not to be confused with hush puppies. (deep-friedherb- flavored corn meal dough ~ dumplings) I know, I know - what's an Amish? Anyone want to "tackle" that one? (tackle = fishing = rodmaking = staying on subject) Don Burns from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Dec 12 12:52:29 1997 Subject: Re: Re: [1] Straight vs Compound Taper In a message dated 12/12/97 5:23:59 PM, you wrote: has a responsive tip.>> Hank, Sorry for not responding sooner, I guess AOL ate your originalmessage.After I wrote the original response, It occurred to me that you probablycouldfind a slope and starting point that would produce an effective straightlinetaper for any given line weight. You obviously have more experience herethanI do. I would guess rod length could be a critical design factor?Don - I have built a couple of Paul Young style parabolics, and cast severalothers. I think I can cast them farther than anything else. It took me awhileto get used to them, also. I still find them a bit tricky and find thatfatigue or inattention has a big effect on my casting. A moderateprogressivetaper is what I like to spend time with. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Dec 12 13:54:13 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 12Dec 1997 14:55:25 -0500 Subject: Lon Does anyone have the numeber for Lon? I had his number but when i called to order forms it appears I have it wrong. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from cphisey@neca.com Fri Dec 12 14:51:42 1997 Subject: Re: Lon At 02:54 PM 12/12/97 +0000, you wrote:Does anyone have the numeber for Lon?American Angler ad says ph# (207)781-5235 from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Dec 12 15:41:35 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Grits what goe's BANG clip clop BANG clip clop and Amish drive by shooting! ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com[SMTP:flyfisher@cmix.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 1997 8:12 AM Subject: Re: Grits RO>-----Original Message-----RO>From: Carsten Jorgensen RO>>Being an ignorant european, somebody please tell me: What isGRITS? How doRO>I use it in my rodmaking> RO>Grits (not instant) are edible and may prove to be a goodsubstitute forRO>embargoed hemp - used to fill core of hollow-built rods. Carsten, Grits are best when cooked in the deep-deep south by someone who's gotthe same genepool on both sides of the family. But do NOT eat the homity grits served in VA! Just joking! Grits are a hot corn-meal breakfast side dish. They can be excellentwhen served with butter. Best I've ever had were homemade and servedatan Amish colony restaurant (the Good n' Plenty?) in the heart ofdixie.(in Alabama) And also not to be confused with hush puppies.(deep-friedherb-flavored corn meal dough ~ dumplings) I know, I know - what's an Amish? Anyone want to "tackle" that one? (tackle = fishing = rodmaking = staying on subject) Don Burns from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Dec 12 15:47:05 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Lon 207-781-5235 ----------From: Jon Lintvet[SMTP:jlintvet@clarityconnect.com] Sent: Friday, December 12, 1997 6:54 AM Subject: Lon Does anyone have the numeber for Lon? I had his number but when i called to order forms it appears I have it wrong. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Dec 12 18:21:44 1997 Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:21:32 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: flame bait On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Harry Boyd, Jr. wrote: Tony Young wrote: On 11 Dec 1997 dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: RO>How to be known as a yankee: impugn the flavor of grits. Watch it,Brian!RO>:^) - Grayson As a chef on PBS said recently "You can go south and have a bowl ofgrits for about $1.00, or you can go to Southern France or Italy andhave polenta for the equivalent of $22.50. OK, now I know what grits is (are?). I was wondering if McDonaldscouldmarket it. Maybe the Quarter Bucket? :-O Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ Hey Tony,In Louisiana, McDonald does market grits!! I think I'm being had a lend of here. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Dec 12 18:26:30 1997 Sat, 13 Dec 1997 08:26:23 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Wiring a "dry box" On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Robert Milardo wrote: I have been using a box to hang rod sections after varnishing. To date,these were rods being refinished. Now that I'm starting the plunge in"Level 5" and making new rods, I also have a need to rest rod sectionsafter glueing. The box is a foot square and about 5' tall, and made ofpine. I was thinking of adding heat by installing a light fixture in thebottom of the box with a low wattage bulb (eg 40W). I'm assuming thiswillwork, yield an ambient temp of about 70-75 degrees, which would beperfect,and would mean I no longer have to heat the whole room (which isnormallylike good brook trout habitat and about 60 degrees). Does anyone use asimilar approach? Yes, I use a 60w spotlight. All I've done is run a portable spotlight into the box by removing the socket, passing the cable through a hole in the cabinet and re-conecting it. Keeps everything warm and dry. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 12 18:50:08 1997 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? Bleached blonde beaver ?!? Reed Curry said that?Oh my, it must be cold and dark in the great white north! Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 12 18:52:43 1997 Subject: Re: resorcinol John, Thanks. I talked to someone there who knows you. Said you have quitean elaborate glue brew they mix up for you. Resorcinol is $40 a gallon(both parts) delivered. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 12 18:59:07 1997 Subject: Re: Grits Amish are sort of like conservative, very strict Hugonots. Grits are produced by soaking corn in lye, rinsing them, drying them,and grinding them very coarsely. You either like them or you have 24chromosomes. :^)Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 12 19:01:45 1997 Subject: Re: archives - C&R thread, please unwind Kill-joy! from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 12 19:03:34 1997 Subject: [Fwd: Resorcinol] 4E8213E750F4A36EEF9202C8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 4E8213E750F4A36EEF9202C8 What do you glue gurus out there think of this. Mr. Z.? Brian --------------4E8213E750F4A36EEF9202C8 mail1.infinet.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA04617 for Subject: Re: Resorcinol Brian, Thanks for your e-mail. We sell Resorcinol but only in gallons and larger. Ican't say for sure, but I think a liquid polyurethane adhesive wouldperformequally as well. Resorcinol, although very strong, has some seriousdrawbacks when used in non production situations. The PUR would beeasier towork with and would set up quicker. Let me know if I can give you furtherinfo.Regards,Jeff PitcherCustom-Pak Adhesives --------------4E8213E750F4A36EEF9202C8-- from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 12 19:05:42 1997 Subject: Re: grits Grayson,Should your porch colapse, how many dogs would die?:-). Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 12 19:07:30 1997 Subject: Re: grits Or with a honey blonde, (or is it blonde honey). Well, there goes our PG rating right down the river! from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Dec 12 19:20:56 1997 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Resorcinol] Brian, MSC sells it in smaller quantities. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Brian & Michelle Creek Subject: [Fwd: Resorcinol]Date: Friday, December 12, 1997 5:01 PM What do you glue gurus out there think of this. Mr. Z.? Brian from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Dec 12 19:35:50 1997 Subject: Re: Snakemaker Grayson, Yes I can help you out. E-Mail me as to what you need to know or callmeevenings after 6pm,(my time) or weekends. Dave LeClair315-689-7896 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Dec 12 19:37:50 1997 Subject: Re: flame bait What flavor? :-)Hank P.S. I've been eating grits since a little shaver even though I grew up in PA.Still like 'em. from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Dec 12 19:38:10 1997 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Resorcinol] Thanks, Robert. Brian from Bopep@aol.com Fri Dec 12 19:41:52 1997 Subject: Re: Cork Handles ala Wine Corks Lets hope the winemakers all use this stuff and leave the good stuff forus!!!!!Isn't it so that the very best cork is set aside for those guys as it is? from jfoster@gte.net Fri Dec 12 20:41:46 1997Received: from Subject: Re: archives - C&R thread, please unwind mac-creator="4D4F5353" Reed,Reed,Reed I was not trying to open THE box again..If i've ever been introspectiveit just occurs to me that "you guys" are very good fishermen and in massit doesn't take long to deplete a resource....on the other hand Iwonder if John has tried grits as a suitable substitute for hisconcoction... keep smiling Jerry from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Dec 12 22:04:46 1997 Subject: Re: Grits Harry Boyd, Jr. wrote: Ralph W Moon wrote: I agree on instant vs. real grits. And I thank you for finally helping mesee the light. I could never figure out why my wife (SOUTHERN) alwaysthrewthe pan at me when I poured maple syrup over my grits. Ralph (DAMYANKY) Ralph, you can't get much more Southern than Louisiana, and aroundthese parts, although maple syrup is taboo, Steen's Pure Ribbon CANESyrup is kosher.Just trying to create a little marital harmony...Harry Boyd AH HA VINDICATION AT LAST. RALPH from jczimny@dol.net Fri Dec 12 22:18:38 1997 Subject: Re: resorcinol Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: John, Thanks. I talked to someone there who knows you. Said you have quitean elaborate glue brew they mix up for you. Resorcinol is $40 a gallon(both parts) delivered. BrianSorry the resocinal is so expensive. Why don't you try ureaformaldehyde. It's half the price. Probably because so much of it isused by plywood manufacturers.John from jfoster@gte.net Sat Dec 13 00:17:52 1997 Subject: Re: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Wayne Do you know what happened to the fly factory web page..Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sat Dec 13 00:21:55 1997 Subject: Re: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Tom and Mr. Josselin de LESPINAY No gender insult (?) intended.. just my ignorance of french name ingconventions.Jer from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Dec 13 03:13:23 1997 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id KAA03451 for; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:12:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Grits ----------Don wrote Carsten, Grits are best when cooked in the deep-deep south by someone who's gotthe same genepool on both sides of the family. But do NOT eat the homity grits served in VA! Just joking! Grits are a hot corn-meal breakfast side dish. They can be excellentwhen served with butter. Best I've ever had were homemade and servedatan Amish colony restaurant (the Good n' Plenty?) in the heart of dixie.(in Alabama) And also not to be confused with hush puppies. (deep-friedherb-flavored corn meal dough ~ dumplings) I know, I know - what's an Amish? Anyone want to "tackle" that one? Don Burns Don, that one is easy: An Amish is a person, who, dictated by faith, wouldhave to use a bamboo flyrod - no plastic or other modern inventions.(tackle = fishing = rodmaking = staying on subject) Best regards Carsten from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Dec 13 09:13:23 1997 KAA21252 for ; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 10:13:22-0500 Subject: Re: Chris Bogart To All As most of you know I have been moving and setting up mynew shop. that is almost complete. During the week I am out of touchdue to my "real job" but after xmas I expect to have a portable computerwith which to check the list mail during the week - instead of getting200+emails each Saturday. Luckly, the phone company transfered my oldphone number (540) 743-7169 out to the new shop. There is an answeringmachine on-line. You normally can reach me on weekends and I willbe there over the Xmas holidays. If there is a pressing need my pageris 1-800-873-4061 and you can send email to it at 8734061@skymail.comMy new mail address is 490 Grand View Drive, Luray, VA. 22835. I hope this clears up my status. On Tue, 9 Dec 1997 15:45:04 EST, DEMARALON wrote: Dear Chris---Your information is the same that I have. If you are successful ingettingmore current information I would appreciate receiving it also. Eileen Regards Chris from flyfisher@rhco.com Sat Dec 13 09:29:25 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Garrison? I was surfing around today and found this:http://www.fullerwestern.com/home/enjoy!/business/denali/rods.html Does anybody know anything about these rods? Can it be possible to evencome close? Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com from sats@gte.net Sat Dec 13 11:07:05 1997 Subject: Re: Midge Rod Article Sometime ago there was an article, I believe it concerned the builder notsomuch the "midge" rods themselves but it am still interested . I believe itwasin a "Flyfishing Quarterly" not sure. Ringing any bells Back two or more years ago, I believe. The builder was an old time builderwhogot into making fly rods down to 3ft long! They had a few pictured. Nowthat's a short rod! He said he had no problem casting them. I don't seewhyyou would. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from jfoster@gte.net Sat Dec 13 12:55:37 1997 Subject: ? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Does anyone know how to get in touch with Mr. Dave Engerbretson,, I losthis e-mail somewhere?thanxJerry from rcurry@jlc.net Sat Dec 13 13:19:29 1997 verdi.jlc.net (8.8.7/8.6.9) with SMTP id OAA03571 for Subject: Re: ? jfoster wrote: Does anyone know how to get in touch with Mr. Dave Engerbretson,, I losthis e-mail somewhere?thanxJerryJerry,Didn't mean anything personal, of course, by THE box closing. Try this for Dave E., haven't written him in several years, but he didgive me some great casting advice, online, once, for which I am in hisdebt.************Dave Engerbretson1272 Highland DriveMoscow, ID 83843USA208-882-1687 dengerbr@moscow.com***************Best regards,Reed Additional Contact Information Home Phone NumbersHome Phone: 208-882-1687 from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Dec 13 13:34:37 1997 Subject: Bleach, resorcinol Sir D, Ted, and all:On one piece of cane with mold extending from pith thru enamel, appliedfullstrength chlorine bleach to the enamel - did not phase it. Bamboo mold ispowerful stuff, has "true grits"....er, grit. That suggests bleach will notaffect water marks, but have not tested same. In Feb 96, Custom-Pak Adhesives (tel 614-763-2886 fax 2888) chargedme $10.00 sell aslittle as one pint. Have used it and it works very well. Regards,RTyree from jfoster@gte.net Sat Dec 13 13:38:34 1997 Subject: Re: ? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Thanx Reed I didn't take it personally, at all, just a diversion from the gritsofferings?? anything more trouty (troutie) than lye enriched cornmeal. I noticedthat both Chris and John have changed their logos,nice. JerryThank you again. from rperry@suffolk.lib.ny.us Sat Dec 13 14:36:36 1997 (8.8.5/8.6.6) with SMTP id PAA15862; Sat, 13 Dec 1997 15:32:31 -0500 Subject: Re: ? dengerbr@MOSCOW.COM Regards, Bob On Sat, 13 Dec 1997, jfoster wrote: Does anyone know how to get in touch with Mr. Dave Engerbretson,, I losthis e-mail somewhere?thanxJerry from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Dec 13 14:50:31 1997 Subject: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) All, I was setting-up to scarf repair a broken tip section on a Heddon model14 - 2F, the tip is broken near the 1st guide point. I couldn't decidewhere it would be best to put the scarf, near the broken point (thin) orback near the 2nd or 3rd guides. (keeps getting thicker ) Up untilnow I've only repaired tip at the bottom end due to lack of replacementpieces to draw upon. So I logged onto Jerry's taper page and looked up the Heddon rod tapers.(shame on us it's kind'da empty folks) Well now, the max stress starts near the 11" point and continues beyondthe 21" point. Since the O.D. doesn't increase much from guide #1 pointto guide #2 point, but the stress does, I decided near the broken point(~5" down) would be best. Any comments before I start the surgery? Don Burns from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Dec 13 17:24:17 1997 (CET) ; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 00:20:16 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry)Date: 13. december 1997 19:23 All, I was setting-up to scarf repair a broken tip section on a Heddon model14 - 2F, the tip is broken near the 1st guide point. I couldn't decidewhere it would be best to put the scarf, near the broken point (thin) orback near the 2nd or 3rd guides. (keeps getting thicker )Any comments before I start the surgery? Don Burns Don Is it a clean break, or just partly? Carsten Jorgensen from KDLoup@aol.com Sat Dec 13 18:16:51 1997 Subject: Re: Grits Harry,I agree. You won't find maple syrup in my house. Steen's the only way togo. Kurt Loup from KDLoup@aol.com Sat Dec 13 18:25:10 1997 Subject: Re: Blonde Rod Jokes Wayne,I looked in a golf club component catalog. The putters weighedbetween310-340 grams. Kurt Loup from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Dec 13 18:29:45 1997 Subject: Re: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) RO>----------RO>> From: flyfisher@cmix.com RO>> Subject: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry)RO>> Date: 13. december 1997 19:23RO>>RO>> All,RO>>RO>> I was setting-up to scarf repair a broken tip section on a HeddonmodelRO>> 14 - 2F, the tip is broken near the 1st guide point. I couldn't decideRO>> where it would be best to put the scarf, near the broken point (thin)orRO>> back near the 2nd or 3rd guides. (keeps getting thicker )RO>> Any comments before I start the surgery?RO>>RO>> Don BurnsRO>>RO>> RO>Don RO>Is it a clean break, or just partly? RO>Carsten Jorgensen Carsten, The tip was broken and had the tiptop remounted on the stub when Iacquired the rod. I've now found a second broken tip to match and I'mmating it with the original tip to bring it back to full length. Don from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Dec 13 19:33:46 1997 Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:33:33 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) On Sat, 13 Dec 1997 flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>> I was setting-up to scarf repair a broken tip section on a HeddonmodelRO>> 14 - 2F, the tip is broken near the 1st guide point. I couldn't decideRO>> where it would be best to put the scarf, near the broken point (thin)orRO>> back near the 2nd or 3rd guides. (keeps getting thicker )RO>> Any comments before I start the surgery?RO>> Don Burns RO>Is it a clean break, or just partly?RO>Carsten Jorgensen Carsten, The tip was broken and had the tiptop remounted on the stub when Iacquired the rod. I've now found a second broken tip to match and I'mmating it with the original tip to bring it back to full length. Don Sounds like you have the luxury of an option. I'd be inclined to make the scarf a long one with at least some of it under guide wraps, possibly around the second guide where there is some extra cane to work with. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Dec 13 20:36:11 1997 Subject: 60* pt. for dial gage I received my order from ENCO yesterday. I was happy with what Ireceived, for the most part, but as always have items on back order. I had ordered the point set for their dial gage. Total waste of money.The machining on these is horrible. I know you get what you pay for butI haven't been able to find a 60* pt. anywhere else. Does anyone haveany ideas? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from lblan@provide.net Sat Dec 13 21:12:12 1997 Subject: Re: 60* pt. for dial gage The L S Starrett Company phone numbers are1-(800) 254-86901-(508) 249-3551 Part number is PT06632/6 Contact Point. Current price is $3.05 -----Original Message----- Subject: 60* pt. for dial gage I received my order from ENCO yesterday. I was happy with what Ireceived, for the most part, but as always have items on back order. I had ordered the point set for their dial gage. Total waste of money.The machining on these is horrible. I know you get what you pay for butI haven't been able to find a 60* pt. anywhere else. Does anyone haveany ideas? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Dec 13 21:12:18 1997 Subject: Re: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) RO>Sounds like you have the luxury of an option. I'd be inclined to make theRO>scarf a long one with at least some of it under guide wraps, possiblyRO>around the second guide where there is some extra cane to work with. RO>Tony Tony, I decide to do just that. I've got about 5 rods that need to be scarfed and sold off soon and I'mexperimenting with thin tip repairs. I'm using Titebond II and I hope itholds up - the tips's O.D. is about 0.100" at this point. Up until now,I've always used Titebond on larger O.D.'s. Time will tell. Does anyone still use amonnia as a method of tempering cane - Heddonused that process. It gave their cane a brown-tone. If I even want tomake a few replacement tips I'd like to match their cane's tone. Don Burns from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Dec 13 21:35:29 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA01529 for Subject: Re: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) At 12:23 PM 12/13/97 -0600, you wrote:All,Don I was setting-up to scarf repair a broken tip section on a Heddon model14 - 2F, the tip is broken near the 1st guide point. I couldn't decidewhere it would be best to put the scarf, near the broken point (thin) orback near the 2nd or 3rd guides. (keeps getting thicker ) Up untilnow I've only repaired tip at the bottom end due to lack of replacementpieces to draw upon. Sounds good, are you making your own tips? Don Burns Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Dec 14 06:17:42 1997 Subject: Re: Wiring a "dry box" Robert Just be advised that even a 40w. bulb, in a small, confined space, can raisetemperatures (as well as lower moisture content) more than seems likely. Justbe sure this box has good ventilability, and a thermometer, preferably topandbottom. It might also be a good idea to line the box with something likealuminum foil to even out the heat and protect the wood. Good luck!Davy from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Dec 14 06:51:25 1997 Subject: Re: 60* pt. for dial gage Larry Blan wrote: The L S Starrett Company phone numbers are1-(800) 254-86901-(508) 249-3551 Part number is PT06632/6 Contact Point. Current price is $3.05 Larry, Can you make a $3.05 sent order or do they have a minimum? Regards, Steve from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Dec 14 07:15:06 1997 Subject: Re: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) RO>Sounds good, are you making your own tips? RO>Doug EastonRO>Tonawanda, NYRO>> > > Doug, Not yet - I'd like to be able to do so soon. Don PS - Doug, how about starting a chicken wing post to go with the"grits". (I'm a former resident of WNY) from SealRite@aol.com Sun Dec 14 07:39:02 1997 Subject: Re: 60* pt. for dial gage Starrett makes one that is real affordable. Look in your yellowpages forindustrial tool suppliers. If they sell them in Lincoln NE they will sellthen in KC. Craig from SealRite@aol.com Sun Dec 14 07:43:22 1997 Subject: Re: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) All ammonia does is affect the color of the wood. Stickley used it in hisfurniture building with white oak. Affects the lignin in the wood & turnsinto a honey brown. I don't think it really affects the tempering at all Craig from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Dec 14 08:24:33 1997 Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:24:25 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Wiring a "dry box" On Fri, 12 Dec 1997, Ragnarig wrote: Robert Just be advised that even a 40w. bulb, in a small, confined space, canraisetemperatures (as well as lower moisture content) more than seemslikely. Justbe sure this box has good ventilability, and a thermometer, preferablytop andbottom. It might also be a good idea to line the box with something likealuminum foil to even out the heat and protect the wood. Good luck!Davy That sounds right. I haven't used my heat box since summer started (hot and dry) but during winter which is wet and cool here I found that a 60w spotlight would hold the cabinet (70" x 10' x 10" purpose made made offrame and panel craftwood) at around 90f when the indoor temp was around 40-50f. Insulating as suggested would. This setup certainly keeps things dry. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Dec 14 08:30:49 1997 Sun, 14 Dec 1997 22:30:42 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) On Sat, 13 Dec 1997 flyfisher@cmix.com wrote:RO>Sounds like you have the luxury of an option. I'd be inclined to maketheRO>scarf a long one with at least some of it under guide wraps, possiblyRO>around the second guide where there is some extra cane to work with.RO>Tony Tony,I decide to do just that. I've got about 5 rods that need to be scarfed and sold off soon and I'mexperimenting with thin tip repairs. I'm using Titebond II and I hope itholds up - the tips's O.D. is about 0.100" at this point. Up until now,I've always used Titebond on larger O.D.'s. Time will tell. Don Burns Don,There are people on the list, possibly including yourself using Titebond II with success in gluing splines but how does it go with scarfs (repairs not nodeless scarfs). Reason I'm mentioning this is that I've had a problem or two using UF on repair scarfs suprisingly and now just use resicinol or epoxy for this purpose. I can't get Titebond II here to try it so I'm just asking. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Dec 14 08:37:39 1997 JAA02969 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:37:40-0500 Subject: Re: Wiring a "dry box" Davy / Robert I concur with the effectiveness of this. When I was in Panama(constant 90%+ humidity)in order to dry out items we put a light bulb in a wall locker (single) andthis accomplishedthe job. So you may want to head down to your surplus store and get awall locker! On Fri, 12 Dec 1997 15:38:33 EST, Ragnarig wrote: Robert Just be advised that even a 40w. bulb, in a small, confined space, canraisetemperatures (as well as lower moisture content) more than seemslikely. Justbe sure this box has good ventilability, and a thermometer, preferably topandbottom. It might also be a good idea to line the box with something likealuminum foil to even out the heat and protect the wood. Good luck!Davy Regards Chris from jczimny@dol.net Sun Dec 14 08:53:53 1997 Subject: Re: Novel use of stress curves (or thx Jerry) SealRite wrote: All ammonia does is affect the color of the wood. Stickley used it in hisfurniture building with white oak. Affects the lignin in the wood & turnsinto a honey brown. I don't think it really affects the tempering at all CraigIndeed no. In fact, cellulose is made by putting wood pulp and ammoniain a large retort, and reducing the pulp to cellulose. It's the tanninin wood that turns brown in the presence of ammonia. One can increasethe speed and efficiency of this reaction by bathing the cane in a"mordant" composed of strong tea. Or, use straight tannic acid. Most ofthe strips that I've seen that were exposed the a strong ammoniaatmosphere have been colored entirely through.John from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Dec 14 08:53:57 1997 JAA03058 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 09:53:58-0500 Subject: Ammonia treatment Don I know George Maurer uses or has used this treatment. The stuff isnot the typeyou want to do in the house (poisonous) and it is very corosive to thethermostat in theheat treatment oven (you end up trashing the oven with repeated use). Butif doesend up with the "browntone" you are talking about. You may want to giveGeorge acall for more info. Regards Chris from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Dec 14 09:07:14 1997 Subject: Re: Grits Maybe one of you Southern guys could help out a confused Yankee who likesgrits. What is the proper method of making Red Eye gravy? Respond off oronlist as you feel appropiate. Oh, and Ralph, for a sweetener that shouldoffendno ones geographic sensibilities, you might try some honey. from kimberlyrose@mindspring.com Sun Dec 14 09:58:44 1997 Subject: Garrison? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0043_01BD087F.B0BBAC00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BD087F.B0BBAC00 It seems when I sent the message yesterday from work titled http://www.fullerwestern.com/home/enjoy!/business/denali/rods.html. this him? Is it even possible to come close the original? Brian Thomanhttp://www.bambooflyrods.com ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BD087F.B0BBAC00 It seems when I sent the message yesterday from work titled = This builder is building Garrison tapers in graphite. Does anybody = Thomanhttp://www.bambooflyrods.com ------=_NextPart_000_0043_01BD087F.B0BBAC00-- from kimberlyrose@mindspring.com Sun Dec 14 10:18:12 1997 Subject: URL boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD0882.67FDD120" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD0882.67FDD120 My last (of 2) messages didn't put the whole URL in message (must have =been the !). This is my last attempt at sending the URL. It may just =have to be manually typed in the address of your browser. http://www.fullerwestern.com/home/enjoy!/business/denali/rods.html rodbuilder making graphite rods with Garrison's tapers. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD0882.67FDD120 My last (of 2) messages didn't put the whole URL in = browser. http://www.fullerwestern.com/home/enjoy!/business/denali/rods.html= tapers. Brian ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01BD0882.67FDD120-- from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Dec 14 10:44:10 1997 Subject: Rod Ferrules HiI am just starting on my third rod and am having terribledifficulty finding anyone in the U.K who can sell me some ferrules. Myoriginal supplier MC Hardies in Carlisle have sold their last few and haveno idea where to purchase any more.Can anyone on the list help. Regards Mick Woodruff. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Dec 14 11:58:48 1997 Subject: RE:Ammonia treatment RO>Don RO> I know George Maurer uses or has used this treatment. The stuffisnot theRO>you want to do in the house (poisonous) and it is very corosive to thethermRO>heat treatment oven (you end up trashing the oven with repeated use). But iRO>end up with the "browntone" you are talking about. You may want togive GeoRO>call for more info. RO> Regards RO> Chris Chris, It doesn't sound like something I want to try at home. I wonder ifthere's commerical shops around Los Angeles that do this sort of woodwork. If not, I'll call George. Thanks, Don from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Dec 14 12:18:37 1997 Subject: Re: 60* pt. for dial gage Steve, I have got a couple of Sterrett 60* points. They don't get anybetter than PO Box 565Elbridge, NY 13060315-689-7896 (evenings ) from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Dec 14 13:13:55 1997 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id UAA21014 for; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 20:08:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: TEST Just testing from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Dec 14 13:35:08 1997 Subject: RE:Rod Ferrules RO>HiRO> I am just starting on my third rod and am having terribleRO>difficulty finding anyone in the U.K who can sell me some ferrules. MyRO>original supplier MC Hardies in Carlisle have sold their last few andhaveRO>no idea where to purchase any more.RO>Can anyone on the list help. RO>Regards Mick Woodruff. Mike, Bailey Woods mfg's NS ferrules (look for info on Jerry's web page?) oryou can place a credit card order for NS ferrules (or NPB) from thefollowing rodbuilding supply companies: Dale Clemens444 Schantz RoadAllentown, PA 18104USA(610) 395-5119 FAX (610) 398-2580 Angler's WorkshopP.O. Box 1010Woodland, WA 98674USA(360) 225-9445 FAX is an 800 # for the USA only?Also: http://www.anglersworkshop.com Hope this helps you out Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Dec 14 14:48:45 1997 PAA06665 for ; Sun, 14 Dec 1997 15:48:37-0500 Subject: Re: Rod Ferrules Mick Give Grahme Maisey (http://www.belvoirdale.com/) a call - he getshis components from England and I believe his brother makes ferrules. On Sun, 14 Dec 1997 11:43:03 -0500, mick woodruff wrote: HiI am just starting on my third rod and am having terribledifficulty finding anyone in the U.K who can sell me some ferrules. Myoriginal supplier MC Hardies in Carlisle have sold their last few and haveno idea where to purchase any more.Can anyone on the list help. Regards Mick Woodruff. Regards Chris from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Dec 14 17:09:21 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Grits TSmithwick wrote: Maybe one of you Southern guys could help out a confused Yankee wholikesgrits. What is the proper method of making Red Eye gravy? Respond off oronlist as you feel appropiate. Oh, and Ralph, for a sweetener that shouldoffendno ones geographic sensibilities, you might try some honey. Boy, Tom, you've asked a delicate question, probably without evenknowing it! Asking for THE recipe for red eye gravy is worse thanasking for THE method for heat treating, or who is building the bestrods available today.Anyway, IMHO red-eye gravy comes from a ham, baked, withoutglazing. It is simply the juices of a baked ham. Others will doubtless haveopinions, and you may even get a recipe for Tom Puckett gravy, an evenmore esoteric concoction. Hope this helps! Harry BoydWinnsboro, Louisiana - Catfish Capital of the free world - And by theway, it actually snowed here last night, about 2". Does that aboutevery ten years, And it was gone by noon. from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Sun Dec 14 17:56:44 1997 Subject: Red eye gravy Was: Grits At 05:10 PM 12/14/97 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Boy, Tom, you've asked a delicate question, probably without evenknowing it! Asking for THE recipe for red eye gravy is worse thanasking for THE method for heat treating, or who is building the bestrods available today.Anyway, IMHO red-eye gravy comes from a ham, baked, withoutglazing. It is simply the juices of a baked ham. Others will doubtless haveopinions, and you may even get a recipe for Tom Puckett gravy, an evenmore esoteric concoction. Hope this helps! Tom, I think Harry just gave you the recipe for baked ham fat. Anyway, itsure ain't the recipe for red eye gravy since it doesn't include coffee andit ain't made from fried ham! That's the recipe for grits and red eye gravy. If you don't want to usethe brewed coffee you can use a 1/2 teaspoon of instant coffee plus alittle water. Later,Johnny------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Dec 14 18:30:47 1997 (CET) ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 01:23:51 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Blonde rods ----------> From: Fallcreek9 Subject: Re: Blonde rodsDate: 13. december 1997 20:25 I make dark honey blonde rods too Carsten Hello Carsten: What time/temp do you use? Do the nodes also take onthedarkhoney blond color? Any indication that the action is different thanotherrods made blond, with the same taper? Would like to try doing that on aforthcomming rod. Best Regards,Richard Richard, I am sorry not to have answered until now. Did in fact try 3times, bust the mail server allowed only receiving, not sending. Guesstheymust have implemented some sorts of quality assesment system orwhatever. Time/temp: low-tech, old fashioned way. Flamehardening in a 5 feet tubewith a hole in the midlle. Propanegas burner heating the tube for about 20minutes through the hole. Then, with the burner still blasting, moving thepole to and fro whilst rotating it at the same time. This takes care of onehalf of the pole. Then reversing, doing it all over again, 5 minutes or so special. I have been told, that this is insufficient for a proper hardening.Probably right, too, if it was not for the bamboo, I use. It was bought in1960 by a cabinetmaker, who'd like to built his own rods. He bought acouple of hundreds of poles and never looked back. His name is Hans. Itmade his accuintance some 4 years ago, and he gave me full access to hisknowledge and bamboo. Did I mention, that back in 1960 the bamboo wasallready quite old? Further, the quality is outstanding: straight, dry,nodes protruding only about a tenth of an inch, nodes spaced far from eachother. Tonkin of the best sort. I do not know, if another way of hardening would affect the action of myrods. I never bothered to try, since Hans`s way of doing has produced rods,second to none I have ever seen. I simply try to reach his standards. Hekeeps making jokes about having an apprentice, but there is a hint of truthbehind. So there You have it - building rods the old fashioned way. Contrary toHans I use compound tapers, and have just started my first node-less rod,yes and hollow-building will be tried as well. Best regards Carsten from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Dec 14 22:04:46 1997 Subject: Re: Ammonia treatment In a message dated 97-12-14 22:08:53 EST, you write: It doesn't sound like something I want to try at home. I wonder ifthere's commerical shops around Los Angeles that do this sort of woodwork. If not, I'll call George. Something I have heard about, but have not tried. Get clear plastic tubing long enough and wide enoughso that you can put the section in. Seal off one end of the tube, and attach the other end to a bottle of ammonia with duct tape so that the fumes can freely enter the tube.keeping the bottle upright, lay the tubing off to the side,again making sure the fumes can freely enter the tube, inthe sun. The warmth will heat up the ammonia and permeatethe tubing with the section inside causing a brown tone in thebamboo. Since I have never tried it, I don't know how long to leave it in.I guess with clear tubing you can eyeball it and take it outwhen it reaches the proper color. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Dec 15 03:40:49 1997 The first two rods I made were blonde, but I didn't likethe action. I also had a difficult time getting the stripsheat treated. I ended up going into a lab where I worked after hours and using an oven that was large enough to heat treat the strips. I was following the Garrison bookat the time, so that could have been my problem. Mythird rod I flamed after hearing about flaming from BruceConnor of the rod making FAQ fame. He also told me about the article in TPF that tested all the heat treatingmethods, and flaming came out on top. The article is in"The Best of The Planing Form" by the way, if you want to read it. The biggest reason I like flaming is the resulting action.In my experience a rod made from flamed bamboo isstiffer and has a quicker snap back from being flexed. The second reason I like a flamed finish is it doesn'tget noticed by fellow fisherpersons. When I used oneof the blonde ones I made, people would interupt my fishing with questions about my rod. "Who made it?"I would inform them that I made it, "How do you makethem","Where do you get the bamboo","How do you form the strips","What kind of finish" on and on and on.Most of you on this list know that I don't mind sharingmy knowledge, but not while I am fishing! I was wastingVFT (Valuable Fishing Time). When I started using oneof my flamed rods, the interuptions fell off dramatically.I was able to fish on a crowded stream without gettinginterupted every ten minutes. Darryl Hayashida from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Dec 15 06:34:24 1997 Subject: Re: Ammonia treatment Sir Darryl am sure you have read the story of how amonian treatment started. Thescot who had some less than perfect sections and threw them out intothemanure pile. He left those for a year. I tried your suggestion once andafter a while, I don't remember how long. I looked. No Change!! I doubtif household amonia will do the trick very quickly. Better to go gorconcentrated stuff. Ral[j from rmoon@dns.ida.net Mon Dec 15 06:54:47 1997 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? Sir Darryl Interesting point. May I infer from you experience that pale rods are adefinate point of attraction with non rod builders? We then can addlight colored cane to high glossy finish and bright colored silk asparts of the attributes of the quintessential rod. Never-the- less Iprefer mediu brown tone, blackened ferules and subdued silks. with arubbed finish. Just my $200 worth Ralph from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Mon Dec 15 09:06:37 1997 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon,15 Dec 1997 09:08:24 CST Subject: Re: grits Brian, you must think me a barbarian. None! My bed's in the house,not under the porch. :^) - Grayson from Canerods@aol.com Mon Dec 15 09:13:06 1997 Subject: Re: Midge Rod Article In a message dated 97-12-13 22:12:01 EST, you write: Sometime ago there was an article, I believe it concerned the builder notsomuch the "midge" rods themselves but it am still interested . I believe itwasin a "Flyfishing Quarterly" not sure. Ringing any bells Back two or more years ago, I believe. The builder was an old timebuilderwhogot into making fly rods down to 3ft long! They had a few pictured. Nowthat's a short rod! He said he had no problem casting them. I don't seewhyyou would. Terry K. >> Doesn't AJ Thramer make a lot of very short rods? Don B. from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Dec 15 10:16:40 1997 Subject: Re: Ammonia treatment In a message dated 97-12-15 09:01:59 EST, you write: I tried your suggestion once andafter a while, I don't remember how long. I looked. No Change!! Idoubtif household amonia will do the trick very quickly. Better to go gorconcentrated stuff. Well, as I said, I never tried it. I just read about it. If it works at all, Ican see how concentrated ammonia will work faster. Perhaps onecan use a hot plate to heat up the ammonia. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Dec 15 11:02:48 1997 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? Darryl - I have used the wood type bleach a few times to get rid of stains from rusted guide feet when restoring an old rod. It worked reasonablywell,getting rid of most of the stains. I did find the bleached area to come out abit lighter than the surrounding cane, but when lightly sanded it didn'tlooktoo bad. I never tried it on watermarks or other discoloration. I wouldsuggest you try it on some scrap pieces before proceeding. from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Dec 15 11:04:45 1997 Subject: Red Eye Gravy Thanks to those Southern Gentlemen who responded. Who would havethought thatGrits and Red Eye Gravy would have their own web page?Don't know how a Yankee like me got interested in Southern cooking, butevenas I wrote the Gravy question yesterday, I had a pot of venison gumbo onthestove, and a skillet of corn bread in the oven. Whoowee, It doesn't get anybetter. from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Dec 15 11:14:44 1997 (CET) ; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 18:07:50 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? Sir D wrote ----------My third rod I flamed after hearing about flaming from BruceConnor of the rod making FAQ fame. He also told me about the article in TPF that tested all the heat treatingmethods, and flaming came out on top. The article is in"The Best of The Planing Form" by the way, if you want to read it. The biggest reason I like flaming is the resulting action.In my experience a rod made from flamed bamboo isstiffer and has a quicker snap back from being flexed. Sir D I seem to recall you writing about your way of flaming something likedarkbrown on the outside and black on the inside, using burner and a heatgun.Does my memory serve me right? If so, could You please spare us a fewmorewords about flaming. ("The Best of The Planing Form" is my X-mas giftthisyear,so the article will be read in a couple of weeks) Best regards Carsten from mruhe@iea.com Mon Dec 15 12:14:10 1997 Subject: Re: CHANGE OF AREA CODE Good Morning Eileen, Sorry to bother you but I just thought I'd check thestatus of yournext load of tonkin. I thought I'd heard somewherethat it had been delayedbut Im not sure if this was true or not.Anyway Im sure I'll hear from you one way or theother. Happy Holidays!!Mark RuheBitterroot RodsSpokane Washingtonmruhe@iea.com Harold & EileenDemarest, Charles H.. from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Dec 15 12:15:41 1997 Subject: Ferrule repair All, I pulled a female ferrule off a Heddon rod's mid-section (damaged andneeding a rewrap) and discovered that several serrations were missing from the ferrule. Does anyone have a method of repairing such a ferrule? Or doesn't itmatter that much? Anyone know if Bailey Woods (or any list member) can re-mount theoriginal welt on a new replacement NS ferrule? It's just straight tubingwith the added welt plus serrations, but it would need to match themales on the tips. Thx, Don Burns from mruhe@iea.com Mon Dec 15 13:05:55 1997 Subject: Accidental post Sorry for the missent post folks,never will get used to this computer stuff.But since Im hereHappy Holidays to all on the list! Mark RuheSpokane from CALucker@aol.com Mon Dec 15 13:41:55 1997 Subject: Re: Ammonia treatment I have read the story you refer to regarding the Scot and the manure pile,butthat is unlikely to be how the ammonia pocess started as a canetreatment.Ammonia has been used for oak furniture and other furniture woods farlongerthan split cane has been generally used for fly rods. For example, thecoffee-color found in nineteenth century oak furniture was created withtheammonia process. Nineteenth Century woodworking manuals explain thatammoniaboth darkens wood and makes it tougher.My father is an architect. I remember how dark the desk holding his blueprint machine became over the years. I first started using my Dad'sammonia thesticks and ammonia at about 120 degrees for a couple of hours. Not much happens first in the fly rod world. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Dec 15 14:53:35 1997 Subject: Re: Blonde Rod Jokes Wayne, et al,The ratio of blonde to flamed rods that I've made is 1 to 10.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Dec 15 15:18:49 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Grits MEK again Ted? Do you need help or are you like me ,past all currentlyavailable help? SEGHank. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Dec 15 15:35:07 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Grits -----Original Message----- MEK again Ted? Do you need help or are you like me ,past all currentlyavailable help? SEGHank. Hank: Definitely past all currently available help! Gain sanity by doingmore cane or lose sanity . . . , that is the question. Happy Hollidays, Ted G. from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 15 18:55:37 1997 Subject: Re: Ammonia treatment That's the stuff I use for wood and brass darkening, blueprint ammonia.It's free for the begging, but you must be very careful of the fumes! Ifume outside in the sun on warm days, if you were going to use thismethod in the winter in cold climates, make sure you have an ehaust fanavailable. Brian from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Dec 15 20:27:28 1997 Tue, 16 Dec 1997 10:27:17 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Red Eye Gravy On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, TSmithwick wrote: Thanks to those Southern Gentlemen who responded. Who would havethought thatGrits and Red Eye Gravy would have their own web page?Don't know how a Yankee like me got interested in Southern cooking, butevenas I wrote the Gravy question yesterday, I had a pot of venison gumbo onthestove, and a skillet of corn bread in the oven. Whoowee, It doesn't get anybetter. Oh no! I've just got to ask (deep emotional agony), what is venison gumbo? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from stpete@netten.net Mon Dec 15 20:40:11 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA15775 for; Mon, 15 Dec 1997 20:54:57 -0600 Subject: Re: Red Eye Gravy Tony Young wrote: On Mon, 15 Dec 1997, TSmithwick wrote: Thanks to those Southern Gentlemen who responded. Who would havethought thatGrits and Red Eye Gravy would have their own web page?Don't know how a Yankee like me got interested in Southern cooking,but evenas I wrote the Gravy question yesterday, I had a pot of venison gumboon thestove, and a skillet of corn bread in the oven. Whoowee, It doesn't getanybetter. Oh no! I've just got to ask (deep emotional agony), what is venisongumbo? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ Tony, venison gumbo is a dish made of deer meat, spices and vegetableswhich are cooked in a sauce based on a roux. You do know what a roux isright? Start with a dark roux, about the color of ammonia treatedcane... Rick from jfoster@gte.net Mon Dec 15 23:29:36 1997 Subject: oh, oh C3509A28B2C01F8599EB5E44" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- C3509A28B2C01F8599EB5E44 mac-creator="4D4F5353" Larry Check this out Jerry --------------C3509A28B2C01F8599EB5E44 (Intermail v3.1 117 223) with ESMTP Subject: Re: [Fwd: Re: Hexrod.xls] boundary="=====================_882143454==_" --=====================_882143454==_ I did a 3 way compare of Wayne's program and it behaves just like Hexrod.Here's what I did:1. built a rod entering the dimensions given below at 5 inch increments.2. built a rod entring just the tip and butt dimensions.3. then built a rod entering the dimensions at 5 inch increments with thedimensions produced in step 2. Each time, the stresses were different than the stresses produced in theprevious report. I'm sending the reports as attachments. The way I type, it was a real pain in the ass getting the values entered inWayne's program. I lost count of the number of times I had to start over.It must be the short thumb. Anyway, it appears it's still broke, but it behaves like Wayne's. later At 10:04 10/5/97 -0500, you wrote:HI Paul here's th no.s .07000.07300.07600.07900.08200.08540.08880.09220.09560.09900.10220.10540.10860.11180.11500.11760.12020.12280.12540.12800.13140.13480.13820.14160.14500.14760.15020.15280.15540.15800.16200.16600.17000.17400.17800.18040.18280.18520.18760.19000.19100.19200.19300.19400.19500.19760.20020.20280.20540.20800.21100.21400.21700.22000.22300.22540.22780.23020.23260.23500.23660.23820.23980.24140.24300.24440.24580.24720.24860.25000 --=====================_882143454==_ HEXROD 6 Strip Bamboo Rod Design Report from F(b) Curve DESIGN # :ACTION LENGTH : 70 LINE WEIGHT : 518 LINE LENGTH : 90 LINE FISHED : 30 TIP IMPACT : 1.652473 COMMENTS :Dimensions entered at tip and action length from .070 to.250 PT TIP LINE V&G FERRULE BAMBOO 0 1 1.65 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1.65 40201 0.07002 3.30 0.01 0.01 0.00 0.00 3.32 72344 0.07263 4.96 0.02 0.03 0.00 0.02 5.02 98302 0.07524 6.61 0.04 0.05 0.00 0.05 6.74 119161 0.07785 8.26 0.05 0.08 0.00 0.09 8.49 135887 0.08046 9.91 0.08 0.11 0.00 0.15 10.26 149249 0.08307 11.57 0.11 0.15 0.00 0.23 12.05 159862 0.08578 13.22 0.14 0.20 0.00 0.32 13.88 168224 0.08839 14.87 0.18 0.25 0.00 0.43 15.73 174739 0.090910 16.52 0.22 0.31 0.00 0.56 17.62 179732 0.093511 18.18 0.27 0.38 0.00 0.71 19.53 183473 0.096112 19.83 0.32 0.45 0.00 0.88 21.48 186180 0.098713 21.48 0.37 0.53 0.00 1.08 23.46 188035 0.101314 23.13 0.43 0.61 0.00 1.29 25.47 189187 0.103915 24.79 0.49 0.70 0.00 1.54 27.52 189760 0.106516 26.44 0.56 0.80 0.00 1.81 29.61 189857 0.109117 28.09 0.63 0.91 0.00 2.10 31.74 189563 0.111718 29.74 0.71 1.02 0.00 2.43 33.90 188949 0.114319 31.40 0.79 1.13 0.00 2.78 36.11 188076 0.117020 33.05 0.88 1.26 0.00 3.17 38.36 186994 0.119621 34.70 0.97 1.38 0.00 3.59 40.65 185744 0.122222 36.35 1.06 1.52 0.00 4.05 42.98 184361 0.124823 38.01 1.16 1.66 0.00 4.54 45.37 182876 0.127424 39.66 1.26 1.81 0.00 5.07 47.80 181312 0.130025 41.31 1.37 1.96 0.00 5.64 50.28 179691 0.132626 42.96 1.48 2.12 0.00 6.25 52.82 178031 0.135227 44.62 1.60 2.29 0.00 6.90 55.40 176345 0.137828 46.27 1.72 2.46 0.00 7.59 58.05 174647 0.140429 47.92 1.85 2.64 0.00 8.33 60.74 172946 0.143030 49.57 1.98 2.83 0.00 9.12 63.50 171251 0.145731 51.23 2.11 3.02 0.00 9.96 66.31 169569 0.148332 52.88 2.25 3.22 0.00 10.85 69.19 167907 0.150933 54.53 2.39 3.42 0.00 11.79 72.13 166268 0.153534 56.18 2.54 3.63 0.00 12.78 75.14 164657 0.156135 57.84 2.69 3.85 0.00 13.84 78.21 163078 0.158736 59.49 2.84 4.07 0.00 14.95 81.35 161532 0.161337 61.14 3.01 4.30 0.00 16.12 84.57 160021 0.163938 62.79 3.17 4.54 0.00 17.35 87.85 158548 0.166539 64.45 3.34 4.78 0.00 18.65 91.21 157114 0.169140 66.10 3.51 5.03 0.00 20.01 94.65 155718 0.171741 67.75 3.69 5.29 0.00 21.44 98.17 154363 0.174342 69.40 3.87 5.55 0.00 22.94 101.77 153047 0.177043 71.06 4.06 5.81 0.00 24.52 105.45 151772 0.179644 72.71 4.25 6.09 0.00 26.17 109.21 150536 0.182245 *F 74.36 4.45 6.37 0.00 27.90 113.07 149341 0.1848 Dimensions entered at tip and action length from .070 to .250 46 76.01 4.64 6.65 1.08 29.70 118.10 149558 0.187447 77.67 4.85 6.95 2.17 31.59 123.22 149702 0.190048 79.32 5.06 7.25 3.25 33.56 128.43 149783 0.192649 80.97 5.27 7.55 4.34 35.61 133.74 149807 0.195250 82.62 5.49 7.86 5.42 37.76 139.15 149782 0.197851 84.28 5.71 8.18 6.50 39.99 144.66 149713 0.200452 85.93 5.94 8.50 7.59 42.32 150.28 149607 0.203053 87.58 6.17 8.83 8.67 44.75 156.00 149467 0.205754 89.23 6.40 9.17 9.76 47.27 161.83 149299 0.208355 90.89 6.64 9.51 10.84 49.89 167.77 149106 0.210956 92.54 6.88 9.86 11.92 52.62 173.83 148893 0.213557 94.19 7.13 10.22 13.01 55.45 180.00 148662 0.216158 95.84 7.38 10.58 14.09 58.39 186.29 148417 0.218759 97.50 7.64 10.95 15.18 61.44 192.70 148160 0.221360 99.15 7.90 11.32 16.26 64.60 199.24 147893 0.223961 100.80 8.17 11.70 17.34 67.88 205.90 147619 0.226562 102.45 8.44 12.09 18.43 71.28 212.69 147339 0.229163 104.11 8.71 12.48 19.51 74.80 219.62 147056 0.231764 105.76 8.99 12.88 20.60 78.45 226.67 146771 0.234365 107.41 9.27 13.29 21.68 82.22 233.87 146485 0.237066 109.06 9.56 13.70 22.76 86.12 241.21 146199 0.239667 110.72 9.85 14.12 23.85 90.16 248.69 145915 0.242268 112.37 10.15 14.54 24.93 94.33 256.32 145634 0.244869 114.02 10.45 14.97 26.02 98.64 264.10 145356 0.247470 115.67 10.76 15.41 27.10 103.09 272.03 145083 0.2500 --=====================_882143454==_ HEXROD 6 Strip Bamboo Rod Design Report from F(b) Curve DESIGN # :ACTION LENGTH : 70 LINE WEIGHT : 518 LINE LENGTH : 90 LINE FISHED : 30 TIP IMPACT : 1.652473 COMMENTS :Dimensions entered at 5 inch increments from .070 to.250 PT TIP LINE V&G FERRULE BAMBOO 0 1 1.65 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1.65 40201 0.07002 3.30 0.01 0.01 0.00 0.00 3.32 71187 0.07303 4.96 0.02 0.03 0.00 0.02 5.02 95298 0.07604 6.61 0.04 0.05 0.00 0.05 6.74 113935 0.07905 8.26 0.05 0.08 0.00 0.09 8.49 128272 0.08206 9.91 0.08 0.11 0.00 0.16 10.26 137266 0.08547 11.57 0.11 0.15 0.00 0.23 12.06 143514 0.08888 13.22 0.14 0.20 0.00 0.33 13.89 147659 0.09229 14.87 0.18 0.25 0.00 0.45 15.75 150190 0.095610 16.52 0.22 0.31 0.00 0.58 17.64 151482 0.099011 18.18 0.27 0.38 0.00 0.74 19.56 152716 0.102212 19.83 0.32 0.45 0.00 0.93 21.52 153168 0.105413 21.48 0.37 0.53 0.00 1.14 23.52 153007 0.108614 23.13 0.43 0.61 0.00 1.37 25.55 152368 0.111815 24.79 0.49 0.70 0.00 1.64 27.62 151360 0.115016 26.44 0.56 0.80 0.00 1.93 29.74 152375 0.117617 28.09 0.63 0.91 0.00 2.26 31.90 153052 0.120218 29.74 0.71 1.02 0.00 2.63 34.10 153442 0.122819 31.40 0.79 1.13 0.00 3.02 36.34 153590 0.125420 33.05 0.88 1.26 0.00 3.46 38.64 153536 0.128021 34.70 0.97 1.38 0.00 3.93 40.98 150529 0.131422 36.35 1.06 1.52 0.00 4.44 43.37 147567 0.134823 38.01 1.16 1.66 0.00 4.99 45.82 144664 0.138224 39.66 1.26 1.81 0.00 5.59 48.32 141833 0.141625 41.31 1.37 1.96 0.00 6.23 50.88 139080 0.145026 42.96 1.48 2.12 0.00 6.93 53.50 138643 0.147627 44.62 1.60 2.29 0.00 7.67 56.18 138155 0.150228 46.27 1.72 2.46 0.00 8.47 58.92 137627 0.152829 47.92 1.85 2.64 0.00 9.32 61.73 137066 0.155430 49.57 1.98 2.83 0.00 10.22 64.60 136481 0.158031 51.23 2.11 3.02 0.00 11.18 67.54 132385 0.162032 52.88 2.25 3.22 0.00 12.21 70.55 128533 0.166033 54.53 2.39 3.42 0.00 13.30 73.64 124909 0.170034 56.18 2.54 3.63 0.00 14.45 76.81 121497 0.174035 57.84 2.69 3.85 0.00 15.68 80.05 118285 0.178036 59.49 2.84 4.07 0.00 16.97 83.38 118354 0.180437 61.14 3.01 4.30 0.00 18.35 86.80 118414 0.182838 62.79 3.17 4.54 0.00 19.80 90.30 118467 0.185239 64.45 3.34 4.78 0.00 21.33 93.90 118516 0.187640 66.10 3.51 5.03 0.00 22.94 97.58 118561 0.190041 67.75 3.69 5.29 0.00 24.64 101.37 121231 0.191042 69.40 3.87 5.55 0.00 26.42 105.24 123911 0.192043 71.06 4.06 5.81 0.00 28.29 109.22 126600 0.193044 72.71 4.25 6.09 0.00 30.24 113.29 129298 0.194045 *F 74.36 4.45 6.37 0.00 32.28 117.45 132003 0.1950 Dimensions entered at 5 inch increments from .070 to .250 46 76.01 4.64 6.65 1.08 34.41 122.81 132640 0.197647 77.67 4.85 6.95 2.17 36.63 128.26 133201 0.200248 79.32 5.06 7.25 3.25 38.94 133.81 133693 0.202849 80.97 5.27 7.55 4.34 41.34 139.47 134124 0.205450 82.62 5.49 7.86 5.42 43.85 145.24 134499 0.208051 84.28 5.71 8.18 6.50 46.45 151.12 134060 0.211052 85.93 5.94 8.50 7.59 49.16 157.12 133598 0.214053 87.58 6.17 8.83 8.67 51.97 163.23 133116 0.217054 89.23 6.40 9.17 9.76 54.90 169.46 132621 0.220055 90.89 6.64 9.51 10.84 57.93 175.81 132115 0.223056 92.54 6.88 9.86 11.92 61.08 182.29 132654 0.225457 94.19 7.13 10.22 13.01 64.35 188.90 133164 0.227858 95.84 7.38 10.58 14.09 67.74 195.64 133646 0.230259 97.50 7.64 10.95 15.18 71.25 202.51 134102 0.232660 99.15 7.90 11.32 16.26 74.89 209.52 134536 0.235061 100.80 8.17 11.70 17.34 78.65 216.67 136321 0.236662 102.45 8.44 12.09 18.43 82.54 223.95 138086 0.238263 104.11 8.71 12.48 19.51 86.57 231.38 139831 0.239864 105.76 8.99 12.88 20.60 90.73 238.96 141555 0.241465 107.41 9.27 13.29 21.68 95.02 246.68 143261 0.243066 109.06 9.56 13.70 22.76 99.45 254.54 145304 0.244467 110.72 9.85 14.12 23.85 104.02 262.56 147334 0.245868 112.37 10.15 14.54 24.93 108.73 270.73 149350 0.247269 114.02 10.45 14.97 26.02 113.58 279.05 151353 0.248670 115.67 10.76 15.41 27.10 118.58 287.52 153344 0.2500 --=====================_882143454==_ HEXROD 6 Strip Bamboo Rod Design Report from F(b) Curve DESIGN # :ACTION LENGTH : 70 LINE WEIGHT : 518 LINE LENGTH : 90 LINE FISHED : 30 TIP IMPACT : 1.652473 COMMENTS :Dimensions entered at 5 inch increments taken fromreport generated by just entering the dimensions at the tip and butt. PT TIP LINE V&G FERRULE BAMBOO 0 1 1.65 0.00 0.00 0.00 0.00 1.65 40201 0.07002 3.30 0.01 0.01 0.00 0.00 3.32 72670 0.07253 4.96 0.02 0.03 0.00 0.02 5.02 99159 0.07504 6.61 0.04 0.05 0.00 0.05 6.74 120670 0.07755 8.26 0.05 0.08 0.00 0.09 8.49 138109 0.08006 9.91 0.08 0.11 0.00 0.15 10.26 151655 0.08267 11.57 0.11 0.15 0.00 0.23 12.05 162404 0.08528 13.22 0.14 0.20 0.00 0.32 13.88 170863 0.08789 14.87 0.18 0.25 0.00 0.43 15.73 177443 0.090410 16.52 0.22 0.31 0.00 0.56 17.61 182477 0.093011 18.18 0.27 0.38 0.00 0.71 19.53 186239 0.095612 19.83 0.32 0.45 0.00 0.88 21.47 188953 0.098213 21.48 0.37 0.53 0.00 1.07 23.45 190801 0.100814 23.13 0.43 0.61 0.00 1.28 25.46 191937 0.103415 24.79 0.49 0.70 0.00 1.52 27.51 192486 0.106016 26.44 0.56 0.80 0.00 1.79 29.59 192552 0.108617 28.09 0.63 0.91 0.00 2.09 31.72 192223 0.111218 29.74 0.71 1.02 0.00 2.41 33.88 191571 0.113819 31.40 0.79 1.13 0.00 2.76 36.08 190657 0.116420 33.05 0.88 1.26 0.00 3.14 38.33 189531 0.119021 34.70 0.97 1.38 0.00 3.56 40.61 188237 0.121622 36.35 1.06 1.52 0.00 4.01 42.95 186809 0.124223 38.01 1.16 1.66 0.00 4.50 45.33 185278 0.126824 39.66 1.26 1.81 0.00 5.02 47.76 183669 0.129425 41.31 1.37 1.96 0.00 5.59 50.23 182002 0.132026 42.96 1.48 2.12 0.00 6.19 52.76 180297 0.134627 44.62 1.60 2.29 0.00 6.83 55.34 178566 0.137228 46.27 1.72 2.46 0.00 7.52 57.98 176824 0.139829 47.92 1.85 2.64 0.00 8.26 60.67 175080 0.142430 49.57 1.98 2.83 0.00 9.04 63.41 173343 0.145031 51.23 2.11 3.02 0.00 9.87 66.22 171620 0.147632 52.88 2.25 3.22 0.00 10.75 69.09 169917 0.150233 54.53 2.39 3.42 0.00 11.68 72.02 168238 0.152834 56.18 2.54 3.63 0.00 12.67 75.02 166589 0.155435 57.84 2.69 3.85 0.00 13.71 78.08 164972 0.158036 59.49 2.84 4.07 0.00 14.81 81.22 163390 0.160637 61.14 3.01 4.30 0.00 15.97 84.42 161844 0.163238 62.79 3.17 4.54 0.00 17.19 87.69 160336 0.165839 64.45 3.34 4.78 0.00 18.48 91.04 158868 0.168440 66.10 3.51 5.03 0.00 19.83 94.47 157440 0.171041 67.75 3.69 5.29 0.00 21.25 97.97 156053 0.173642 69.40 3.87 5.55 0.00 22.73 101.56 154707 0.176243 71.06 4.06 5.81 0.00 24.29 105.22 153401 0.178844 72.71 4.25 6.09 0.00 25.93 108.98 152137 0.181445 *F 74.36 4.45 6.37 0.00 27.64 112.81 150914 0.1840 Dimensions entered at 5 inch increments taken from report generated byjust entering the dimensions at the tip and butt. 46 76.01 4.64 6.65 1.08 29.43 117.83 151121 0.186647 77.67 4.85 6.95 2.17 31.30 122.93 151256 0.189248 79.32 5.06 7.25 3.25 33.25 128.13 151325 0.191849 80.97 5.27 7.55 4.34 35.29 133.42 151338 0.194450 82.62 5.49 7.86 5.42 37.42 138.81 151301 0.197051 84.28 5.71 8.18 6.50 39.63 144.30 151220 0.199652 85.93 5.94 8.50 7.59 41.94 149.90 151101 0.202253 87.58 6.17 8.83 8.67 44.34 155.60 150949 0.204854 89.23 6.40 9.17 9.76 46.84 161.40 150768 0.207455 90.89 6.64 9.51 10.84 49.44 167.32 150562 0.210056 92.54 6.88 9.86 11.92 52.15 173.35 150336 0.212657 94.19 7.13 10.22 13.01 54.95 179.50 150092 0.215258 95.84 7.38 10.58 14.09 57.87 185.77 149834 0.217859 97.50 7.64 10.95 15.18 60.89 192.15 149564 0.220460 99.15 7.90 11.32 16.26 64.03 198.66 149284 0.223061 100.80 8.17 11.70 17.34 67.28 205.29 148601 0.225862 102.45 8.44 12.09 18.43 70.65 212.06 147925 0.228663 104.11 8.71 12.48 19.51 74.14 218.95 147257 0.231464 105.76 8.99 12.88 20.60 77.75 225.98 146599 0.234265 107.41 9.27 13.29 21.68 81.49 233.15 145951 0.237066 109.06 9.56 13.70 22.76 85.37 240.46 145678 0.239667 110.72 9.85 14.12 23.85 89.37 247.91 145408 0.242268 112.37 10.15 14.54 24.93 93.51 255.51 145140 0.244869 114.02 10.45 14.97 26.02 97.79 263.26 144876 0.247470 115.67 10.76 15.41 27.10 102.21 271.16 144617 0.2500 --=====================_882143454==_-- --------------C3509A28B2C01F8599EB5E44-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Dec 16 06:43:55 1997 Subject: Dave LeClair Dave, A guy on FF@ wants some bluing agent - lost your email address. Wouldyoucontact him regarding supply. Name is Sean McTigue @ Thanx, Don Andersen from fer@surfplanet.com Tue Dec 16 10:10:14 1997 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA26593 for; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 16:12:09 GMT Subject: Re: archives - C&R thread, please unwind Reed F. Curry wrote: Fernando,You are probably not aware that Catch and Release (called, amongothernames, Torture and Toss, by detractors) is still a highly controverialsubject in North America (...) I would suggest we avoidit for this list... Reed Reed, I'm so sorry if somebody is upset for my words. I was not trying tostartany discussion about this subject. Of course I was talking about thespanishsituation: here our first priority is to preserve nature resources for thenextgenerations, and I believe C&R is the only possible way to start doing it bythemoment. Anyway I will gladly follow your suggestion.Regards,Fernando Rada. from Canerods@aol.com Tue Dec 16 10:21:12 1997 Subject: Re: Red Eye Gravy Contains okra - tastes like a vegemite (sp?) & kangaroo stew - done USAstyle. Don Burns Canerods@aol.com or flyfisher@cmix.com from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Dec 16 13:27:35 1997 (CET) ; Tue, 16 Dec 1997 20:23:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Ammonia treatment ----------Brian wrote That's the stuff I use for wood and brass darkening, blueprint ammonia.It's free for the begging, but you must be very careful of the fumes! Ifume outside in the sun on warm days, if you were going to use thismethod in the winter in cold climates, make sure you have an ehaust fanavailable. Brian Hello Brian Could You please describe in details, how to blacken brass with blueprintammonia. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Dec 16 13:30:22 1997 Subject: Re: Classic Tapers In a message dated 97-12-13 11:44:19 EST, you write: Larry- Sorry it took so long, but I haven't been able to get back and cast that rod(Farlowe 7-footer) and that's the only really good way to say what weightline it will cast. Experience tells me, however, that its optimum weight will be about a #6.This does not mean, however, that it will not cast a 5-wt. almost to thebacking (I think it will)or that a difference of a few thousandths plus or minus around the jointmightnot have a remarkable and unpredictable effect upon its overall character.Rods with very similar graduations are often able to cast 7-wt lines gooddistances with surprising finesse. I think if I wanted a handy little rod for general stream fishing, whichwouldhandle a variety of 6 wt. lines and terminal tackle, this would be a seriouscontender. Hopes this helps,Davy from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Dec 16 16:34:23 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: The Sir D Series WayneCatt@aol.com wrote: The following is a work up of a series of tapers based on the 7' Sir Dfavorite. I have stretched the stress graph to develope a 7' 6" andshortedit to accomodate a 6' 3" after the curves were developed they were ranthrough Hexrod to create dimensions for #2 - #3 - #4 weight rods inboth 2 &3 piece rods. The stress curves are as follows: snipped... Wayne, just for practice I ran these through Hexrod and came up withmyown conclusions about Sir D's rods (I think I'll like them!) Would youmind giving us your subjective ideas about the rods? Are they fast,slow, medium? Light or heavy? Having a more subjective statementmighthelp others decide if these tapers are correct for their needs. Thanks,Harry Boyd from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 16 16:52:54 1997 Subject: Re: Ammonia treatment EA2553D66E4DA88BC8776EC0" --------------EA2553D66E4DA88BC8776EC0 To blacken brass you need to clean it of any oils or coatings withlacquer thinner. Rinse with clear water. soak the brass in warm waterinto which you have dissolved salt at the rate of two tablespoons/cup ofwater. Then remove it and suspend it OVER the ammonia in a net or on awire, just dont let it touch the stuff. Cover the container of ammonia(and brass) and warm it with a blow drier or heat gun gently. Theammonia fumes will concentrate in the container and the brass willdarken for a bit then stop. Remove the brass from the container and dipit in salt water again. Suspend over the ammonia, cover, heat andrepeat until the brass is as dark as you want it. Then rinse in clearwater, air dry, and coat with lacquer or the like to protect thetarnished part from abrasions. Do the ammonia part outside and don't breath the fumes!!! I learned the specifics of this method from American Country Furniture Brian --------------EA2553D66E4DA88BC8776EC0 To blacken brass you need to clean it of any oils or coatings with lacquer waterinto which you have dissolved salt at the rate of two tablespoons/cup of of ammonia (and brass) and warm it with a blow drier or heat gun The ammonia fumes will concentrate in the container and the brass will in clear water, air dry, and coat with lacquer or the like to protect thetarnished part from abrasions. Do the ammonia part outside and don't breath the fumes!!! I learned the specifics of this method from American CountryFurniture Brian --------------EA2553D66E4DA88BC8776EC0-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 16 18:39:49 1997 Wed, 17 Dec 1997 08:39:28 +0800 (WST) Subject: Re: Red Eye Gravy On Tue, 16 Dec 1997, Canerods wrote: Contains okra - tastes like a vegemite (sp?) & kangaroo stew - done USAstyle. Don Burns Canerods@aol.com or flyfisher@cmix.com Crikey! You've tasted Vegemite? Did you take a jar home with you?'Roo stew isn't spoken of much anymore which is a shame as it tastes good but supply to butchers is too hard suposedly so you can only realy get it at resturants catering to tourists wanting to sample the "local tucker".Still, given the choice of Kangeroo, Crockadile and Buffalo I'd take the Buffalo any time, then again there's the Barramundi, Marron, Crayfish, Oysters, Mussels...... Some even eat trout. It's all washed down with beer of course, or wine, or beer and wine with cheese. What all this has to do with fly rods is a bit beyond me but it all sounds like it tastes good. Except the grits, maybe some chilli would help ;-)I think I'll go and make myself a sandwich. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Dec 16 21:44:35 1997 Subject: Re: The Sir D Series Harry -This is a short answer - sometime in the future I will have the lengthydone. To visualize the character of a rod plot the stress information - and tobe able to compare different rods make the graph standardized. I can sendin aPDF file of the graph I use and you can print through Adobe acrobat if youlike.This weekend I tried to explain that the amplitude ( lowest to highestvalues) of the stress dictates the speed of the rod and also to some extentdictates the distance that the rod will cast. The Sir D series could bedescribed as a medium fast rod. Consider a high vs low amplitude - thehighamplitude allows the rod to pass more energy to load it through its lengthwhere a low amplitude loads under less energy - the biggest factor in rodloading is the velosity e = m * v (squared). This also explains why therocketgraphite rod takes more energy than bamboo to cast. The true Garrisoncurvecould be described as medium slow.Beside the amplitude there are a few characteristics that can be seenina graphed curve. A curve the forms a reversed 'J' is a parabolic. And thatoddrise and fall in the curve just ahead of the handle in the butt section iscalled a 'hinge' and helps to form the forward loop when a rod is besignedtoroll cast well. the hinge causes a stall in the passing of energy and allows isabsent then the loop 'v' too much going forward and eventually collapses. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Dec 16 22:31:37 1997 Subject: Grayrock Roadkill Cookoff A few of us that have been following the tummy delights of the lastfewdays were talking tonight and have an idea . . . The Grayrock RoadkillCookoff - bring a dish to pass or the ingredients to make on the spot - addalittle wine or shine and it sounds like a good event. from lblan@provide.net Tue Dec 16 22:43:17 1997 Subject: Re: Grayrock Roadkill Cookoff Yes!! What a variety that ought to provide! -----Original Message----- Subject: Grayrock Roadkill Cookoff A few of us that have been following the tummy delights of the lastfewdays were talking tonight and have an idea . . . The Grayrock RoadkillCookoff - bring a dish to pass or the ingredients to make on the spot -addalittle wine or shine and it sounds like a good event. from nicksco@fia.net Tue Dec 16 22:47:15 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14134 for Subject: Re: Grayrock Roadkill Cookoff Wayne Catt wrote: A few of us that have been following the tummy delights of the lastfewdays were talking tonight and have an idea . . . The Grayrock RoadkillCookoff - bring a dish to pass or the ingredients to make on the spot -add alittle wine or shine and it sounds like a good event.You make me wish I lived in the mid to eastern part of the us from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Tue Dec 16 22:48:45 1997 Subject: Re: Dave LeClair Who or what is FF@ ? Don Andersen wrote: Dave, A guy on FF@ wants some bluing agent - lost your email address. Wouldyoucontact him regarding supply. Name is Sean McTigue @ Thanx, Don Andersen from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Dec 16 23:01:27 1997 Subject: Re: Dave LeClair Thanks Don, I'll get a hold of him. Dave LeClair from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Dec 16 23:52:45 1997 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? In a message dated 97-12-15 19:13:26 EST, you write:> I seem to recallyou writing about your way of flaming something like darkbrown on the outside and black on the inside, using burner and a heatgun.Does my memory serve me right? If so, could You please spare us a fewmorewords about flaming. ("The Best of The Planing Form" is my X-mas giftthisyear,so the article will be read in a couple of weeks) Yup, I heat gun the pith side to black, then flame the outside. Theculm seems to split easier, and planing is easier. I also don't needan oven. The action of the completed rod is better, read the article in "The Best of The Planing Form" to see why. Darryl Hayashida from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Dec 17 02:31:57 1997 Subject: Re: Ammonia treatment Dear Chris I was interested in what you said about the wall locker in Panama. Perhapsyou've heard of using the top of a wall locker to heat-treat cane? It'smosteffective if you are in Korea in the Winter, in a small, draughty quonsethut. putting itatop a cleaning locker in the enlisted latrine. Improvise, adapt, etc.! Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 17 05:42:35 1997 Wed, 17 Dec 1997 19:42:26 +0800 (WST) Subject: Food, sewing circles and poetry reading. Also some rod stuff. Well, it's only 8 days till Christmas and just 367 shoping days till the next marketing extravaganza. What ever all this means to you, it means holidays to me.Merry Christmas to all, and please accept my gift. It's what I think is all that realy matters and that's a feeling of well being, the vector of this gift being a poem I think you all will appreciate.It was writen by an Aussie called Banjo Paterson (sort of a Mark Twain type) about 80 years back but is still a good read today. Clancy of The Overflow I had writen him a letter which I had, for want of better knowledge, He was shearing when I knew him, so I sent a letter to him,Just on spec, addressed as follows,"Clancy, of The Overflow" And and answer came directed in a writing unexpected(And I think the same was written with a thumbnail diped in tar);'Twas his shearing mate who wrote it, and verbatim I will quote it:"Clancy's gone to Queensland droving, and we don't know where he are." * * * * * * * * In my wild eratic fancy visions come to me of ClancyGone a-droving "down the Cooper" where the Western drovers go;As the stock are slowly stringing, Clancy rides behind them singing, And the bush has friends to meet him, and their kindly voices greet himIn the murmur of the breezes and the river on it's bars,And he sees the vision splendid of the sunlit plains extended,And at night the wondrous glory of the everlasting stars. * * * * * * * * I am sitting in my dingy little office, where a stingyRay of sunlight struggles feebly down between the houses tall,And the foeted air and gritty of the dusty dirty city,Through the open window floating, spreads it's foulness over all. And in place of lowing cattle, I can hear the fiendish rattleOf the tramways and the buses making hurry down the street;And the language uninviting of the gutter children fightingComes fitfully and faintly through the ceasless tramp of feet. And the hurrying people duant me, and their pallid faces haunt meAs they shoulder one another in their rush and nervous haste,With their eager eyes and greedy, and their stunted forms and weedy, And I somehow rather fancy that I'd like to change with Clancy,Like to take a turn at droving where the seasons come and go,While he faced the round eternal of the cash-book and the journal-But I doubt he'd suit the office, Clancy, of The Overflow. A.B ('Banjo') Paterson. The Overflow is a part of Queensland ( a large state of Australia) where the rivers over flow their banks because of monsoon rains 5 hundred miles away. There can be floods hundreds of miles from the original rivers but not a drop of rain where the flood is.Generaly there will be flood then drought. Dingy little offices are the same everywhere. Droving isn't always the cattle and sheep drives to the railhead of the American West but can be a case of just moving stock from a drought orflooded area to a better place. This could go on for a couple of years. I did it without seeing a road using stock routes that pass through most stations (ranches) that connects them all up across the state. A realy great way to see "the outback" as everybody except Aussies call it. Droves still happen but not as frequently of course and not just for the tourists. Sorry for the bandwidth but it seemed as if a little culture was needed after all this grits and Vegemite stuff ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fer@surfplanet.com Wed Dec 17 06:04:07 1997 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id MAA22358 for; Wed, 17 Dec 1997 12:06:10 GMT Subject: Re: The Sir D Series Wayne, would you be so kind to provide the original stress curve for the7' SirD favorite? I have just finished an Excel utility to shorten/stretch stresscurvesand I would like to compare with your results. Many thanks in advance,Fernando Rada from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Dec 17 06:19:17 1997 Subject: Re: oh, oh I'm a bit lost with what was being tested here - I assume it is theaccuracy of Hexrod - But if you investigate the results you will see thatthedimensions aren't the same. the following are stations 5 - 10 - 15 of the 3runs run 1 2 3.0804 .082 .080.0935 .099 .093.1065 .115 .106 If you are looking for a number set to test Hexrod try using a actionlength of 60" and using the dimensions of .000" - .300" - remember thatthetip needs to be the 1" dimension (.005) because of the math breakdown asyouapproach a '0' limit. So the tip (1") = .005 and 5"= .025" and soon. This testset yields even numbers at all stations. and will show how close the youcanget with the program. Wayne PS - there is a new version Hex96c - which now saves to hard and floppydrivesand might save typing in the future - and on the horizon is Hex98. I postedthe code listing for Hexrod(version 7-92) but I would like to keep the codeburied in an exe for those wanting the newer versions. For those wantingthenew exe please e-mail. I don't want to eat up bandwidth by posting it totheentire list. from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Dec 17 06:55:43 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id HAA06945 for Subject: Re: The Sir D Series At 01:14 PM 12/17/97 +0100, you wrote:Wayne, would you be so kind to provide the original stress curve forthe 7' SirD favorite? I have just finished an Excel utility to shorten/stretchstress curvesand I would like to compare with your results. Many thanks in advance,Fernando Rada Wayne, Could you post the curve to the listserve please Thanks,Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 17 08:35:24 1997 Subject: Re: Dave LeClair RO>Who or what is FF@ ? A Fly Fishing list-serv from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Dec 17 09:31:48 1997 Subject: Re: Dave LeClair At 20:51 16/12/97 -0800, Paul wrote:Who or what is FF@ ? Paul, FF@ is the flyfisherman bulletin board run by Danny Walls [I think]. Can be from 400>1000 subscribers - all about flyfishing - different folks thanRodmakers mostly - a lot more postings - can reach 150 on a bad day. Moreitems like the "Red Eye Gravy" stuff - little about rodmaking exceptgraphite. Don Don Andersen wrote: Dave, A guy on FF@ wants some bluing agent - lost your email address. Wouldyoucontact him regarding supply. Name is Sean McTigue @ Thanx, Don Andersen from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Dec 17 09:41:05 1997 Subject: Re: Dave LeClair At 23:26 16/12/97 EST, you wrote: Thanks Don, I'll get a hold of him. Dave LeClair Dave, Thanks, A lot of crap posted about how to blue ferrules on FF@ - best he gets yourstuff and does it right. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Dec 17 09:41:08 1997 Subject: Re: Bleached Blonde? At 00:52 17/12/97 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 97-12-15 19:13:26 EST, you write: I seem to recall you writing about your way of flaming something likedarkbrown on the outside and black on the inside, using burner and aheatgun.Does my memory serve me right? If so, could You please spare us a fewmorewords about flaming. ("The Best of The Planing Form" is my X-mas giftthisyear,so the article will be read in a couple of weeks) Yup, I heat gun the pith side to black, then flame the outside. Theculm seems to split easier, and planing is easier. I also don't needan oven. The action of the completed rod is better, read the article in "The Best of The Planing Form" to see why. Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Thanks for the acknowledgements. I wrote the article a number of yearsago.The flaming was not done your way but was done by an open flame on therind side of the cane. Don Andersen from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 17 10:14:29 1997 Subject: Re: The Sir D Series In a message dated 97-12-16 17:46:03 EST, you write: Wayne, just for practice I ran these through Hexrod and came up withmyown conclusions about Sir D's rods (I think I'll like them!) Would youmind giving us your subjective ideas about the rods? Are they fast,slow, medium? Light or heavy? Having a more subjective statementmighthelp others decide if these tapers are correct for their needs. A little word of caution about the 6' 3" 3 piece Sir D tapers. I looked atthem with my Excel spreadsheet and noticed that the lower ferrule whichshould be at 50" is right where the "hinge" is. Since a ferrule does not flex, Ithinkthe placement will negate the hinge. I made a 6' 3" rod without a hingeand it was a terrible roll caster. This is just a guess, but I think movingthe hinge 5" closer to the handle would be the way to go. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 17 10:26:21 1997 Subject: Re: The Sir D Series In a message dated 97-12-17 07:51:12 EST, you write: Wayne, would you be so kind to provide the original stress curve forthe7'SirD favorite? I have just finished an Excel utility to shorten/stretchstresscurvesand I would like to compare with your results. It's the 7ft. 2 piece 4wt. on page 225 in Wayne's book. It'salso on Jerry Fosters web page at:http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmin the tapers section. from Sir D himself. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 17 10:44:30 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Coupl'a questions? Friends, Seems like I remember a thread a few months ago concerning theavailability of rod bags suitable for bamboo rods. It may have beenafter the big fall show in Denver. I've looked through the archives anddidn't find it, but may well have just overlooked the info I sought. Does anyone have the info close at hand. I'd appreciate I re-post. Also, I'd like to put my old Pflueger reel on my brand new first reallive bamboo rod, but the reel seat doesn't fit. Does anyone know whereI might get a replacement reel seat for an old Medalist designed to fitmodern reel seats? Thanks in advance, Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com from flyfisher@rhco.com Wed Dec 17 12:00:26 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Coupl'a questions? I have ordered some hand-made socks from the place in Colorado that Ithink is the thread you're referring to, the number is 303-337-5278.She now has a pattern for a rod with two tips since I've placed myorder. They are made from soft cotton flannel with a ribbon closure.My only complaint about them are that they aren't tapered toward the tipsection. I do like the soft flannel, it really protects the finish of abamboo rod. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 11:44 PM Subject: Coupl'a questions? Friends, Seems like I remember a thread a few months ago concerning theavailability of rod bags suitable for bamboo rods. It may have beenafter the big fall show in Denver. I've looked through the archivesanddidn't find it, but may well have just overlooked the info I sought. Does anyone have the info close at hand. I'd appreciate I re-post. Also, I'd like to put my old Pflueger reel on my brand new firstreallive bamboo rod, but the reel seat doesn't fit. Does anyone knowwhereI might get a replacement reel seat for an old Medalist designed tofitmodern reel seats? Thanks in advance, Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 17 14:46:42 1997 Subject: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) In a message dated 97-12-17 11:58:55 EST, you write: Thanks for the acknowledgements. I wrote the article a number of yearsago.The flaming was not done your way but was done by an open flame ontherind side of the cane. I also found it puzzling that Garrison was so far off with his heat treatingprocedure. It makes me wonder if there isn't another factor messing upthe heat treatment temps and times. Take for instance a few peopleposted that they heat treat for one hour at 375 F. I put a couple stripsin my kitchen oven at 375, and in 30 min. it set off the smoke detectorand I had charcoal. Thinking that the temp of the oven was off I put athermometer in, set it at 375, and the thermometer read 350. On theother hand, when I held a temperature probe (borrowed from a lab whereI used to work) on the enamel side and heatgunned the pith side of a culm the temp read 400 F. There is no discernable color change of theoutside of the culm when I do this. In this case this could be explained when I get curled up scorched pieces of cane in 30 minutes? Darryl Hayashida from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Dec 17 15:09:45 1997 Subject: Re: Food, sewing circles and poetry reading. Also some rod stuff. Dear Tony As a boy growing up in the Ozarks (That's a joke: nobody really grows upthere) I had two main sources of literary stimulation: Damon Runyan andBanjoPaterson. So it's not my fault, turning out the way I did. Anyway, Banjo helped me to understand that life is valuable, like money,andshouldn't just be buried in your back yard in a tin can. It should be thrownaround freely, spent lavishly on your friends, wagered only when you knowthehorse and withheld from the tax man to the greatest extent possible. Banjo Paterson's writing is one of the finest gifts anybody could get forChristmas, and I thank you. It even makes up for Vegemite! Davy PS. Mr Paterson's poetry should be read out loud- to an impressionablechild,if possible. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Dec 17 15:27:07 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) -----Original Message----- I also found it puzzling that Garrison was so far off with his heattreatingprocedure. It makes me wonder if there isn't another factor messing upthe heat treatment temps and times. Take for instance a few peopleposted that they heat treat for one hour at 375 F. I put a couple stripsin my kitchen oven at 375, and in 30 min. it set off the smoke detectorand I had charcoal. Thinking that the temp of the oven was off I put athermometer in, set it at 375, and the thermometer read 350. On theother hand, when I held a temperature probe (borrowed from a lab whereI used to work) on the enamel side and heatgunned the pith side of aculm the temp read 400 F. There is no discernable color change of theoutside of the culm when I do this. In this case this could be explained when I get curled up scorched pieces of cane in 30 minutes? Darryl Hayashida .02 worth: I believe it was on the List that it was said that oven tempscan peak considerably higher than that read (at any time) on athermometer,thus cause over heating and perhaps in your experience, ignition. Heat treating is an iteresting subject with seemingly very contradictorycommentary. I have gradually come to a not very interesting conclusionthatfirst rate Tonkin may not be noticeably improved with heat, but "class B"materialis good candidate for improvement with treatment. Ted G. from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Dec 17 16:04:54 1997 Subject: hex winding check Rodders After scanning my "File cabinet", I can't find the refereence, but I want tothank whoever suggested the tapered hex mandrel for forming windingchecks tothe hexagonal shape. I intended to do it like you said, but couldn't find allthe materials, so here is what I came up with: I cut the threaded part off a 3/4" shoulder bolt and ground and filed thetapered hex shape into it; I then drilled a hole slightly larger than theunmodified winding check's I.D. into a 5/8" piece of hard nylon; I insertedthe mandrel and started tapping with a hammer, forcing the O.D. of thecheckinto the nylon. The great thing is that the nylon protects the finish of the check whilesuppoting the O.D. and keeping it from breaking outward. I also discoveredthat, no matter how I tried, I never got the mandrel's facets just perfect. As it turns out, the facets on the rod are also just ever so slightly out ofround, and a little trial-and-error located the (almost) perfect match! Ofcourse, I'm assuming that we all understand where actual perfectionexists.In God. And in certain people's fantasies. Anyway, thanks for the inspiration whoever you are! Davy from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Dec 17 16:25:21 1997 Subject: Re: hex winding check -----Original Message----- After scanning my "File cabinet", I can't find the refereence, but I wanttothank whoever suggested the tapered hex mandrel for forming windingcheckstothe hexagonal shape. I intended to do it like you said, but couldn't findallthe materials, so here is what I came up with: I cut the threaded part off a 3/4" shoulder bolt and ground and filed thetapered hex shape into it; I then drilled a hole slightly larger than theunmodified winding check's I.D. into a 5/8" piece of hard nylon; Iinsertedthe mandrel and started tapping with a hammer, forcing the O.D. of thecheckinto the nylon. The great thing is that the nylon protects the finish of the check whilesuppoting the O.D. and keeping it from breaking outward. I alsodiscoveredthat, no matter how I tried, I never got the mandrel's facets just perfect. As it turns out, the facets on the rod are also just ever so slightly outofround, and a little trial-and-error located the (almost) perfect match! Ofcourse, I'm assuming that we all understand where actual perfectionexists.In God. And in certain people's fantasies. Anyway, thanks for the inspiration whoever you are! Davy Sounds like an excellent improvement - using hard nylon. I wrote thepieceon hex winding checks without knowledge that it was in the "Best of"book,article by Mr. Tyree. I couldn't get the hex on the mandrel perfecteither - but it was good enough; thread (size 3/0) covers any voidsbetweenhex check and blank. regards, Ted G. from SSunderl@aol.com Wed Dec 17 18:28:40 1997 Subject: Refurbing a Chubb/Montague A friend recently gave me a old cane rod in need of restoration. I consulted my new copy of Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook"andfound that it matches his description of the Chubb/Montague trade rodsthatwere built in the 20s. In fact it is the spitting image of theChubb/Montaguerod shown on page 131, including a sheet cork grip (that still has somefishscales on it). It is housed in a cloth coverd form and is in a green clothsack. Unfortunatley there is little left of the label on the outside of thesack. The rod is a three piece, 9', rod with no external markings. All the guidesand ferruls appear to be in good shape but it is missing the tip-tops forbothtip sections. I would like to locate some tip-tops that match the originals. Any helplocating a couple would be helpful. One of the tip scetions is broken, butlooks to be repairable. The rod also needs to be stripped and re- varnished,lots of dings (It is evident that the rod was once owned by an avid flyfisher). So any hints on this would also be welcomed. I have no idea what the rod is worth and would appreciate any help inllearning more about the the company and the rods value if restored. Steve Sunderland from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Dec 17 18:39:16 1997 Subject: Rodmakers gathering Anyone have any info on a rodmakers gathering in BC in April? Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from rcurry@jlc.net Wed Dec 17 19:08:29 1997 Subject: Re: Coupl'a questions? Harry Boyd wrote: Seems like I remember a thread a few months ago concerning theavailability of rod bags suitable for bamboo rods. Also, I'd like to put my old Pflueger reel on my brand new first reallive bamboo rod, but the reel seat doesn't fit. Does anyone know whereI might get a replacement reel seat for an old Medalist designed to fitmodern reel seats? Thanks in advance, Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.comHarry, the "Pfoot" made by Bill Franke, a few years ago. Some stores may stillhave some in stock. Should be $14.95 and is well made.Contact Bob Corsetti about rod bags, he sells good quality, made forcane rods (2 tips).Best regards,Reed from rcurry@jlc.net Wed Dec 17 19:14:48 1997 Subject: Re: Food, sewing circles and poetry reading. Also some rod stuff. Ragnarig wrote: PS. Mr Paterson's poetry should be read out loud- to an impressionablechild,if possible. Only if you don't have any Robert Service (that's the Canadianconnection) handy, or better yet, "Graybeards at Play" by G.K.Chesterton. Tony, thanks for Mr. Paterson's verse.Happy holidays,Reed from RMATARAZZO@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 17 19:21:16 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA29565 +0000 Subject: Re: Coupl'a questions? Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, Seems like I remember a thread a few months ago concerning theavailability of rod bags suitable for bamboo rods. It may have beenafter the big fall show in Denver. I've looked through the archives anddidn't find it, but may well have just overlooked the info I sought.Does anyone have the info close at hand. I'd appreciate I re-post. Also, I'd like to put my old Pflueger reel on my brand new first reallive bamboo rod, but the reel seat doesn't fit. Does anyone know whereI might get a replacement reel seat for an old Medalist designed to fitmodern reel seats? Thanks in advance, Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com Harry, The Medalist replacement reel foot is called a "Pfoot" or something likethat. I know I've seen them for sale but I couldn't find them in mycatalogs. Perhaps someone else on the list can remember who sellsthem. I seem to recall something about them being discontinued so you'dbetter act fast if you want one. Regards,Bob Matarazzo from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Dec 17 19:31:41 1997 Subject: Re: Coupl'a questions? In a message dated 12/17/97 5:04:28 PM, you wrote: Harry - I assume you mean reel foot, not seat. there was such a deviceavailable, called the One Pfoot, that allowed you to put a Pflueger on amodern reel seat. I don't know if they are still available. the last place Isaw one advertised was in Len Codella's catalog. from jbr842@airmail.net Wed Dec 17 19:53:38 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.227) with smtp for Subject: Re: Food, sewing circles and poetry reading. Also some rod stuff. Tony Young wrote: Well, it's only 8 days till Christmas and just 367 shoping days till thenext marketing extravaganza. What ever all this means to you, it meansholidays to me.Merry Christmas to all, and please accept my gift. It's what I think isall that realy matters and that's a feeling of well being, the vector ofthis gift being a poem I think you all will appreciate.It was writen by an Aussie called Banjo Paterson (sort of a MarkTwain type) about 80 years back but is still a good read today. Clancy of The Overflow Thanks, Tony....A very Merry Christmas to all...God Bless. Jim Bryan from jfoster@gte.net Wed Dec 17 20:32:21 1997 Subject: Re: oh, oh mac-creator="4D4F5353" Wayne, Larry (of course it was for you ((trying to deny complicity?)) ). anyway, the test was not particularly for the accuracy of hexrod, northe math, Wayne, it was Larry and I trying to resolve what Larry saw asan inconsistency in the excel version..after both of us anguishing overit for several months i sent the code to a friend of mine named Paul,who also labored for several months, and finding no quantitative codingerrors he finally decided to check it against your original work, theresults were as shown, and as explained by Larry , when usingalgorithmic decisions the deviation was " to be expected" . Larry the problem with even devision is the no. of dec. places, ithink. So, I think everyones a go for xmas my bestJerry PS:Wayne, of course i would like to post any new versions you would likedistributed, also, i found some neat purple erasers that I'll send toyour squid if you want to send me your snail mail id, off line from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Dec 17 20:47:24 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) In a message dated 97-12-17 16:23:04 EST, you write: Darryl: Just a thought. A kitchen oven (electric) usually heats with aresistance element that quickly becomes red hot. Is it possible thatradiantheat from a red hot element in quite close proximity to the bamboo causedthecharcoaling? I beleive the element in a Cattanach type oven runs muchcooler. Regards,Richard Tyree from ghinde@inconnect.com Wed Dec 17 20:57:05 1997 0000 Subject: Re: Coupl'a questions? The item you are looking for is (was) the "One Pfoot" It was advertized inLen Codalla's Heritage Sporting Collectibles. Page 18 Winter / Springissue 1996. At that time it was noted that the manufacturer had gone out of businessand Mr. Codella had only a limited supply left. Heritage SportingCollectibles phone #(352) 637-5420. Good Luck! George HindeGreys River Rod Co. ----------From: Harry Boyd Subject: Coupl'a questions?Date: Wednesday, December 17, 1997 9:44 PM Friends, Seems like I remember a thread a few months ago concerning theavailability of rod bags suitable for bamboo rods. It may have beenafter the big fall show in Denver. I've looked through the archives anddidn't find it, but may well have just overlooked the info I sought. Does anyone have the info close at hand. I'd appreciate I re-post. Also, I'd like to put my old Pflueger reel on my brand new first reallive bamboo rod, but the reel seat doesn't fit. Does anyone know whereI might get a replacement reel seat for an old Medalist designed to fitmodern reel seats? Thanks in advance, Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com from RMATARAZZO@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 17 20:59:32 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA9425 +0000 Subject: Re: Coupl'a questions? Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, Seems like I remember a thread a few months ago concerning theavailability of rod bags suitable for bamboo rods. It may have beenafter the big fall show in Denver. I've looked through the archives anddidn't find it, but may well have just overlooked the info I sought.Does anyone have the info close at hand. I'd appreciate I re-post. Also, I'd like to put my old Pflueger reel on my brand new first reallive bamboo rod, but the reel seat doesn't fit. Does anyone know whereI might get a replacement reel seat for an old Medalist designed to fitmodern reel seats? Thanks in advance, Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com Harry, I found the "One Pfoot" in the Len Codella (Heritage SportingCollectibles) catalog - Fall 1997 issue. The price is $25. If you'reinterested, the phone number is (352) 637-5454 Good Luck,Bob Matarazzo from sats@gte.net Wed Dec 17 21:06:47 1997 Subject: Re: Food, sewing circles and poetry reading. Also some rod stuff. Dear Tony As a boy growing up in the Ozarks (That's a joke: nobody really grows upthere) Hell, I did. (at least in physical age) A transplanted hillbilly. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from jbr842@airmail.net Thu Dec 18 00:22:51 1997 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.227) with smtp for Subject: Re: Coupl'a questions? Harry Boyd wrote: Friends, Seems like I remember a thread a few months ago concerning theavailability of rod bags suitable for bamboo rods. It may have beenafter the big fall show in Denver. I've looked through the archives anddidn't find it, but may well have just overlooked the info I sought.Does anyone have the info close at hand. I'd appreciate I re-post. Also, I'd like to put my old Pflueger reel on my brand new first reallive bamboo rod, but the reel seat doesn't fit. Does anyone know whereI might get a replacement reel seat for an old Medalist designed to fitmodern reel seats? Thanks in advance, Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.comHarry, Len Codella at Heritage Sporting Collectables (352)637-5454 did have thereel feet for the Medalists... Merry Christmas, Jim Bryan from KGaucher@aol.com Thu Dec 18 05:15:43 1997 Subject: Dropped from listserve? Jerry, I havn't recieved any mailfor two days. Did i get cut off the listor is it meybe a problem with AOL?Thanks Ken Gaucher from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Dec 18 09:52:55 1997 Subject: Re: Rodmakers gathering At 16:37 17/12/97 -0800, Robert wrote: Anyone have any info on a rodmakers gathering in BC in April? Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Robert, Last I heard is that it was full and there was a waiting list of folkswanting to attend. The facility can only accommodate about 75 or so. The convener is:Ed Hartzell13124 N.W. Old Germantown Rd.Portland, Oregon97231 Dates are April 24-26/98 regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Dec 18 09:52:58 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) At 21:16 17/12/97 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 97-12-17 16:23:04 EST, you write: when I get curled up scorched pieces of cane in 30 minutes? Darryl Hayashida Darryl: Just a thought. A kitchen oven (electric) usually heats with aresistance element that quickly becomes red hot. Is it possible thatradiantheat from a red hot element in quite close proximity to the bamboocaused thecharcoaling? I beleive the element in a Cattanach type oven runs muchcooler. Regards,Richard Tyree Richard & Darryl, Richard is onto something there. I use two oven elements but they are notin direct sight line of the cane so radiant heat pickup is not an issue. Ifthe element is glowing red hot and is in direct sightline of the cane, allbets are off with regards to time/temp. relationships. Don from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Dec 18 10:05:16 1997 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA05078 for; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 17:01:52 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) ----------From: Fallcreek9 Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?)Date: 18. december 1997 03:16 In a message dated 97-12-17 16:23:04 EST, you write: when I get curled up scorched pieces of cane in 30 minutes? Darryl Hayashida Darryl: Just a thought. A kitchen oven (electric) usually heats with aresistance element that quickly becomes red hot. Is it possible thatradiantheat from a red hot element in quite close proximity to the bamboocausedthecharcoaling? I beleive the element in a Cattanach type oven runs muchcooler. Regards,Richard Tyree I fully agree with Richard. In the kitchen oven, as in the tempering oven,we're talking an average temperature. The big empty space in the kitchenoven plus all that metal must, I presume, require a more powerfull heatingsource in order to get the temperature up within a reasonable time,compared to the tempering oven. So therefore, when it heats, it HEATS.You'll be able to approximate by looking at the power comsumption (peak)ofthe oven. Or look at the size of the fuses. Best regardsCarsten Jorgensen from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Dec 18 10:08:56 1997 Subject: Re: Rodmakers gathering Thanks Don, I was hoping to find one close to home. Maybe I will just takea road trip this summer. Robert Clarke ----------From: Don Andersen Subject: Re: Rodmakers gatheringDate: Thursday, December 18, 1997 12:59 AM At 16:37 17/12/97 -0800, Robert wrote: Anyone have any info on a rodmakers gathering in BC in April? Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Robert, Last I heard is that it was full and there was a waiting list of folkswanting to attend. The facility can only accommodate about 75 or so. The convener is:Ed Hartzell13124 N.W. Old Germantown Rd.Portland, Oregon97231 Dates are April 24-26/98 regards, Don from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Dec 18 10:21:54 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Tonkin Availability Friends, I just completed my first Bamboo rod, built from cane I purchasedfromyou several months ago, just for practice. Thought the cane wasn'tquite perfect, it made a fine flamed rod, IMHO. Thanks for helping mealong the way to this first rod.I'm thinking about my next few rods, and wondering if you haveadditional cane available, specifically some top quality culms. If so,would you please let me know about price and shipping. Thanks, Harry Boydfbcwin@fsbnet.com(318)435-4359 from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Dec 18 10:47:57 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Oops! Sorry folks, sent the last message to wrong address! from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 18 11:41:48 1997 Subject: A collector looks at my rod Let me say up front that I looked at this as apositive experience and I was truly grateful thatthe guy took the time to seriously consider myrods, and that when good cane rods are being discussed my rods aren't laughed out of the room.And he did use a 10x loupe to examine my rod.(Thomas Penrose you are vindicated!) The good:Overall quality - he said he could tell I took sometime and I have a good woodworking skill.He liked the taper - Wayne Cattanach's 7' 2 piece4 wt. (The Sir D Favorite).He liked the tightness of the gluelines (I think theyare invisible).He liked the sharpness of the hex points.He liked the finish (at least it wasn't lumpy).No gaps in my wraps. The bad:He didn't like the full wells grip I used (I myselfthink reversed half wells or cigar grips lookbetter, but full wells feel better when fishing, andthis is my fishing rod).On a couple of my guides the guide feet weren'texactly the same length (darn preground storebought snake guides).On most of my guides the feet weren't exactlyin the center of the flat. By exact I mean off bya 32nd or 64th of an inch. Except my stripperguide, and that was off by a lot (again darnpreground store bought guide. It was groundaway more on one side).My wraps weren't exactly the same on bothsides (actually they were, but since the guide feet weren't exactly the same length, it madethe wraps look off).Chatter marks on the flats (barely noticeable.I need to be more careful sanding).On one of my tips the guides didn't line up byjust a bit (again it's the guide - one of themrocked over just a tad, the base wasn't exactly flat - gotta find a source for quality guides). Bottom line:I should be able to get $800 to $900 for myrods as is. If I take care of the problems,over $1000. Maybe he was just being kindafter tearing my rods apart, but I'm satisfied.I thought if I could get $700 I would be happy. My wife was amazed. She said she didn't thinkit was possible to find anyone more anal retentivethan me. Darryl Hayashida from fer@surfplanet.com Thu Dec 18 12:01:28 1997 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id SAA28201 for; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 18:03:18 GMT Subject: Which flat for guides? Dear rodmakers, What is your opinion about Garrison's analysis of choosing the weakestflat to place guides? I must admit that I prefer to choose the stiffestflat instead, because I suppose maximum stress is to be applied on thatside of the hexagon. I also follow a different method to find out theweakest/strongest side: I hang a weight at the middle of the piece andsee how much the weight goes down; doing this with each of the flats letyou decide. Merry Christmas and high finish to all,Fernando Rada. from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Dec 18 13:06:18 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod Darryl - I think I agree with your wife. Aren't we nuts enough already? Dowereally need a guy like that to come along picking flysh** out of pepper tomake us worse?Guide placement on spiral rods can get critical, and I'vespent a bit of timetwisting and tweaking the things to get them to go where I want them. Oneofthe things you find out is that they aren't so great when you get them, andthe old "classic" guides are the worst of all. If the old masters did abetterjob than us, they must have spent a lot of time twisting and tweakingalso. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 18 13:35:30 1997 Subject: Re: Which flat for guides? In a message dated 97-12-18 13:06:48 EST, you write: What is your opinion about Garrison's analysis of choosing the weakestflat to place guides? I must admit that I prefer to choose the stiffestflat instead, because I suppose maximum stress is to be applied on thatside of the hexagon. I also follow a different method to find out theweakest/strongest side: I hang a weight at the middle of the piece andsee how much the weight goes down; doing this with each of the flatsletyou decide. The spine/spline - guide placement discussion again....I follow Garrison's method for the reasons outlined inhis book, but I don't think it really matters all that much.If it did there would be a glaring problem if placed wrong,and you would be able to tell right off it was wrong. Sinceyou can't tell if it is placed wrong or not when casting, it can't make that much difference. Darryl Hayashida from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Dec 18 13:40:11 1997 Subject: Re: Rodmakers gathering Any other rodmaker gatherings on the West coast? ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Re: Rodmakers gatheringDate: Thursday, December 18, 1997 8:07 AM Thanks Don, I was hoping to find one close to home. Maybe I will justtakea road trip this summer. Robert Clarke ----------From: Don Andersen Subject: Re: Rodmakers gatheringDate: Thursday, December 18, 1997 12:59 AM At 16:37 17/12/97 -0800, Robert wrote: Anyone have any info on a rodmakers gathering in BC in April? Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Robert, Last I heard is that it was full and there was a waiting list of folkswanting to attend. The facility can only accommodate about 75 or so. The convener is:Ed Hartzell13124 N.W. Old Germantown Rd.Portland, Oregon97231 Dates are April 24-26/98 regards, Don from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 18 13:43:56 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) In a message dated 97-12-18 02:48:13 EST, you write: Darryl: Just a thought. A kitchen oven (electric) usually heats with aresistance element that quickly becomes red hot. Is it possible that radiantheat from a red hot element in quite close proximity to the bamboocaused thecharcoaling? I beleive the element in a Cattanach type oven runs much cooler. I have a gas oven, but the heating method may have something to dowith it. Garrisons setup used a propane flame to heat up his oven.... Darryl Hayashida from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Dec 18 13:50:26 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA177034625; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 11:50:25 -0800 Subject: RE: Rodmakers Gathering Rob, There will be a brand new gathering at Salishan Lodge in February. . Seriously, there was a group that gathered somewhere in the upper Willamette Valley area of Oregon last Spring. Do you already know about that one? I can't remember the name or the dates, but someone on thislist must know. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Dec 18 14:00:33 1997 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Gathering You are right Mac, there is one in Troutdale I think. I am still hoping tohave my first done for our Salishan gathering. Rob ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: RE: Rodmakers GatheringDate: Thursday, December 18, 1997 11:46 AM Rob, There will be a brand new gathering at Salishan Lodge in February. . Seriously, there was a group that gathered somewhere in the upper Willamette Valley area of Oregon last Spring. Do you already know about that one? I can't remember the name or the dates, but someone on thislist must know. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Dec 18 14:00:51 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA189585250; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 12:00:50 -0800 Subject: RE: Rodmakers Gathering I realized I said the gathering was in the upper Willamette Valley. I guess that should read the lower Willamette Valley. Somewhere in theSalem,Portland area. Rivers still flow downhill last time I checked. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Thu Dec 18 14:04:37 1997 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 93 0600 Subject: Iowa Rod Makers? I am new to the list and wonder if there are any bamboo rodmakers on thelistserve in Iowa. If so and you are willing, email me. I would really liketo see your work and you in action some time.Thanks. Jim Kubichekjim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us from rhd360@maine.maine.edu Thu Dec 18 14:50:38 1997 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 18 Dec 97 15:50:07 EST Subject: Post cure bends I just finished curing a glued up section, removed the cotton cord, sandedeach flat and in short it really does look like a butt section, much betterthan I expected on this first try. Now, where did all the "waves" comefrom? If you look close the section is not at all straight; there areslight curves here and there, all fairly compound. Do you experiencedfolks have such outcomes? When you remove the cord following glueing doyou have much straightening to do? I had thought I straighten it fairlywell while the glue was wet, and when it was easy to do so, so this is abig surprise and another daunting challenge. (The glue is URAC cured for24hrs at 100; the binder a Milward type.)--Bob PS Thanks for the advice re the "hot box". The many suggestions were veryhelpful. For my setup, a 40w bulb yields 70 dry degrees which is perfectas a "holding pen." from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Dec 18 15:07:48 1997 QAA23436 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:07:39 Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) I use a cattenach type element inside a double wall type B piece offurnace vent. the element is on the bottom and the bamboo tray is near thetop, about 3 1/2 " away. I also use an electronic temperature probe tomonitor and check the internal temperature at 4 places. The temperaturevariation over the 5' length is about 15 degrees F. One hour at 300degrees achieves a very dark coloration. At 375 degrees the cane iscarbonized after one hour. ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?)Date: Thursday, December 18, 1997 12:24 PM In a message dated 97-12-18 02:48:13 EST, you write: Darryl: Just a thought. A kitchen oven (electric) usually heats witharesistance element that quickly becomes red hot. Is it possible that radiantheat from a red hot element in quite close proximity to the bamboocaused thecharcoaling? I beleive the element in a Cattanach type oven runs much cooler. I have a gas oven, but the heating method may have something to dowith it. Garrisons setup used a propane flame to heat up his oven.... Darryl Hayashida from teekay35@interlynx.net Thu Dec 18 15:12:46 1997 QAA23521 for ; Thu, 18 Dec 1997 16:12:37 Subject: Re: Post cure bends Iv'e never had a rod come out of gluing that was straight. Just startmarking, warming and straightening the kinks and bends one at a time. Eventually it will be sraight. ----------From: Robert Milardo Subject: Post cure bendsDate: Thursday, December 18, 1997 11:56 AM I just finished curing a glued up section, removed the cotton cord,sandedeach flat and in short it really does look like a butt section, muchbetterthan I expected on this first try. Now, where did all the "waves" comefrom? If you look close the section is not at all straight; there areslight curves here and there, all fairly compound. Do you experiencedfolks have such outcomes? When you remove the cord following glueingdoyou have much straightening to do? I had thought I straighten it fairlywell while the glue was wet, and when it was easy to do so, so this is abig surprise and another daunting challenge. (The glue is URAC cured for24hrs at 100; the binder a Milward type.)--Bob PS Thanks for the advice re the "hot box". The many suggestions wereveryhelpful. For my setup, a 40w bulb yields 70 dry degrees which is perfectas a "holding pen." from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Dec 18 16:00:04 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod Darryl A couple of quick questions: Did the squire mention anything about ordering a rod from you?What did he say about the overall character of the rod? Does he know that properly wrapped guides may slip just a bit, no matterhowperfectly centered they are at birth?What kind of rod does he fish. Does he fish?Does shortening one guide foot to match the other improve rodperformance?Did he have a big orange pennant on his bicycle? I wonder if I know him.Is his name "Wizard" or "Dragon", something like that? Don't let him put you off your feed. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Dec 18 17:47:37 1997 Subject: Re: Guides Hi! Got a quick question. Can anybody tell me anything about Epon Resin 826. I've got a bottle ofthatand a smaller bottle of Versamid 140, and I'm pretty sure I got them as aset. Anybody ever hear of using this for rods? I'd really appreciate anythingyoucould tell me about it, as it might save me some money! ThanksDavy from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Dec 18 17:48:52 1997 Subject: Re: Grayrock Roadkill Cookoff Sounds like critter du jour. ;^) Brian from jczimny@dol.net Thu Dec 18 18:12:54 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod TSmithwick wrote: Darryl - I think I agree with your wife. Aren't we nuts enough already?Do wereally need a guy like that to come along picking flysh** out of peppertomake us worse?Guide placement on spiral rods can get critical, and I've spent a bit oftimetwisting and tweaking the things to get them to go where I want them.One ofthe things you find out is that they aren't so great when you get them,andthe old "classic" guides are the worst of all. If the old masters did abetterjob than us, they must have spent a lot of time twisting and tweakingalso.You're right on Tom. Is this what we have been reduced to? Some punditwho can't make a rod determining the standards for the rest of us. Iguess this "collector" hasn't looked closely at his Paynes andLeonard's. Zimny from flyfisher@rhco.com Thu Dec 18 18:27:05 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: A collector looks at my rod I must add my 2 cents. When I brought the 3rd rod I had made to thelocal fly shop, one of the customers in the store picked it up and lookstraight down the shaft like a pool que (it was a 6'3" one piece rod).He quickly pointed out that 6 inches from the tip there was a "slight"bend and that the third guide was slight off center. As if he weretelling me something I didn't already know. When the salespeople in thestore told him that I was splitting the bamboo and building the blank hehad nothing to say, although he still had the same attitude. I'm notsure what people think when they critique a maker's rod, but they'recertainly not going to point out anything that they haven't already seenand obsessed about. I guess, we will just have to deal with the factthat the buying public knows more than the builder and accept their"mastery" of the craft. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com from rmoon@dns.ida.net Thu Dec 18 18:43:02 1997 Subject: Re: Rodmakers gathering Robert The Federation of Flyfishers is having a one day symposium on bamboo onAug 5in Idaho Falls. More info a little later or e-mail me Ralph Moon from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu Dec 18 18:55:07 1997 mailfep2-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Ragnarig wrote: Darryl A couple of quick questions: Did the squire mention anything about ordering a rod from you?What did he say about the overall character of the rod?Does he know that properly wrapped guides may slip just a bit, nomatter howperfectly centered they are at birth?What kind of rod does he fish. Does he fish?Does shortening one guide foot to match the other improve rodperformance?Did he have a big orange pennant on his bicycle? I wonder if I knowhim.Is his name "Wizard" or "Dragon", something like that? Don't let him put you off your feed. Davy Darryl: from the evaluation you gave I don't think this gentlemen wasbeing overly critical--actually, it sounded like he was impressed withyour work. Afterall, when you start 'selling' cane rods and not justbuilding them for yourself or your friends, they'll come under a lot ofscrutiny -- and, rightly so. $700 -- $800 -- $900 and more for a fishingrod? When you begin asking those type of dollars for your work, the flyrod better be good'n. To expect anything less, does an injustice to theentire craft. One of the toughest decisions a rod builder faces is: Should I sell therods I'm building? -- are they good really enough? Only criticalexamination and evaluation by others skilled in the craft can give validadvice. I say: listen and learn from others expectations ... especiallyif we expect others to part with their money for fly rods we have built.Hopefully, if we done our job right -- our customers will be getting a'bargain' when they buy our cane rod. Joe Loverti http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Dec 18 19:04:18 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod SalarFly wrote: My wife was amazed. She said she didn't thinkit was possible to find anyone more anal retentivethan me. Darryl Hayashida Darryl,Your wife is right, the "collector" in question needs a serious dose ofEx-Lax. I love to look at cane rods, but I like to experience them more.Cosmetics are important, but, in the words of the Fractured Fairy Tale,"A chicken coop covered in a cloth of gold is still a chicken coop."I'll bet, despite the very minor surface imperfections, your rods are ajoy to fish. Congratulations.And Merry Christmas,Reed from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Dec 18 19:13:14 1997 Subject: Re: Rodmakers gathering Thanks Ralph, I'm in Eastern Oregon, so it would be fairly close. Robert Clarke ----------From: Ralph W Moon Subject: Re: Rodmakers gatheringDate: Thursday, December 18, 1997 4:31 PM Robert The Federation of Flyfishers is having a one day symposium on bamboo onAug 5in Idaho Falls. More info a little later or e-mail me Ralph Moon from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Dec 18 19:20:48 1997 Subject: New email address To whom it may concern,I am changing Internet services. My new email address is rcurry@top.monad.net Happy holidays,Reed Curry from GLohkamp@aol.com Thu Dec 18 19:28:31 1997 Subject: Re: Rodmakers gathering Yes there was and cane rod workshop in Troutdale ore,last spring .Therewontbe another until the spring of 1999, as the BC meeting is the spring of1998.lf anyone is interested in information about the Troutdale meeting pleasefeel free to contact me . Thanks Gary Lohkamp from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Dec 18 19:47:30 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod I enjoyed the candor of your post. Criticism can be hard to take whenit is about an object that you have poured so much time and effort into.It is also a great teacher if you are big enough to ask for it. I especially liked your last paragraph. It seems I am at the rightplace after all. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 18 19:55:35 1997 Subject: Re: Coupl'a questions? Harry,I seem to remember that some company sold replacement reel feet for thepfluegers-can,t remember the name- maybe Shakespear can help you.Hank. from lblan@provide.net Thu Dec 18 19:56:07 1997 Subject: Re: oh, oh Hmmmm...... might be, this was one of my initial thoughts. I've looked at*every* line of code, set double precision on the most likely looking ones,and have even gone so far as to use search and replace to put doubleprecision on *all* the lines. No go.... no noticable effect at all. Tried setting the few that were double precision initially to singleprecision.... just in case. No effect there either. It is maddening. Drop Wayne's 6'3" (the one I've been using for all thetesting) to 74" or raise it to 76"..... perfect graph. I'm almost ready toask Wayne to post a note to the effect that his 6'3" was a typo.... the rodshould be 6'4" -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: oh, oh Larry the problem with even devision is the no. of dec. places, Ithink. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 18 21:12:23 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod Darryl,Does this "collector" fish or build rods? Anal retentive indeed.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Dec 18 21:12:52 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) Darryl,I've wondered the same thing about 375 for 30 min. or more -I get thesame charcoal. I'm now doing 375 deg. F. for no more than 17 min. and if Iflame both sides I don't use the oven at all. It's kind of like reinventingthe wheel-I discovered flaming both sides a couple of years ago and didn'tthink too much about it-now I find thru the list that it's one of the bestways.Concerning your modified series of tapers-I used John Bokstrom'smethod ofgradation to change the Cattanach 7' 9" for a 2/3 wgt. to a 7'6" for a 2/3wgt. Guess what?I came up with a taper very close to your 7'6" for a 3 wgt! Another wheelinvented. Incidently-I flame my straightened strips rather the whole culm.Hank.P.S. The rod casts a 3 wgt fairly well. from terrypaulsen@earthlink.net Thu Dec 18 21:45:31 1997 Subject: Lathe operation question (off topic) First of all I apoligize for the off topis post. I am trying to duplicate a renzetti vice, and wnodered if any one on thelisthad tried to machine a set of jaws for a tying vise. are they machinedseperatlyor as a pair, and if machined as a pair how are they clamped, any specialjigs. If I can get this little project out of the way then I can start on rod #3.and a new heat treat oven. thanks for your assitance. Terry Paulsen from KDLoup@aol.com Thu Dec 18 22:22:40 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod I donated the second rod I made to my fly fishing club. The guy who wontheraffle couldn't say enough good things about the rod. I'm glad he couldappreciate the effort and time I put into the rod because it sure wouldn'thave passed the critique of the collector. Kurt from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 18 22:47:58 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod In a message dated 97-12-18 21:10:36 EST, you write: Darryl: from the evaluation you gave I don't think this gentlemen wasbeing overly critical--actually, it sounded like he was impressed withyour work. Afterall, when you start 'selling' cane rods and not justbuilding them for yourself or your friends, they'll come under a lot ofscrutiny -- and, rightly so. $700 -- $800 -- $900 and more for a fishingrod? When you begin asking those type of dollars for your work, the flyrod better be good'n. To expect anything less, does an injustice to theentire craft. Yes, you are absolutley right. He was truly helping me, not beingoverly critical. He does know bamboo rods, and has seen and castthousands of them. To all the others that wrote in with moral support, I do appreciatethe kind words, but I truly was not put off or deflated with hisappraisal. In fact it was encouraging to know that my rods areat the $800 to $900 level, and could be at the over $1000 levelwith just a few cosmetic corrections. I say: listen and learn from others expectations ... especiallyif we expect others to part with their money for fly rods we have built.Hopefully, if we done our job right -- our customers will be getting a'bargain' when they buy our cane rod. I did preface the original post with a statement that I did appreciate him taking the time to critique my rod, and I wasn't kidding. I know now what that sector of the bamboo buying world looks for. Darryl Hayashida from jczimny@dol.net Thu Dec 18 22:57:39 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe operation question (off topic) Terry Paulsen wrote: First of all I apoligize for the off topis post. I am trying to duplicate a renzetti vice, and wnodered if any one on thelisthad tried to machine a set of jaws for a tying vise. are they machinedseperatlyor as a pair, and if machined as a pair how are they clamped, any specialjigs. If I can get this little project out of the way then I can start on rod #3.and a new heat treat oven. thanks for your assitance. Terry PaulsenGet some tool steel. Square stock for the Renzetti. Machine the outsidejaws in the lath. Then slit the jaws. Harden,quench and temper accordingto the type of tool steel selected.Zimny from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Dec 18 23:15:05 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod In a message dated 97-12-18 19:44:37 EST, you write: You're right on Tom. Is this what we have been reduced to? Some punditwho can't make a rod determining the standards for the rest of us. Iguess this "collector" hasn't looked closely at his Paynes andLeonard's. On the other hand, we *are* asking them to part with their dollarsto buy our rods. They are entitled to examine it and tell us whatthey feel it's worth. I was feeling out the market to see where myrods stand. As I said in my original post, I was encouraged byhis appraisal. I would happily take $800 to $900 for one of myrods. I still can't see why a Winston or T & T is worth over $2000, but that's why I got into rodmaking in the first place. I couldn't afford to buy a good cane rod. Darryl Hayashida from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Dec 18 23:48:29 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod -----Original Message----- To all the others that wrote in with moral support, I do appreciatethe kind words, but I truly was not put off or deflated with hisappraisal. In fact it was encouraging to know that my rods areat the $800 to $900 level, and could be at the over $1000 levelwith just a few cosmetic corrections. I say: listen and learn from others expectations ... especiallyif we expect others to part with their money for fly rods we have built.Hopefully, if we done our job right -- our customers will be getting a'bargain' when they buy our cane rod. I did preface the original post with a statement that I did appreciatehim taking the time to critique my rod, and I wasn't kidding. I knownow what that sector of the bamboo buying world looks for. Darryl Hayashida Darryl, .02 worth: Fixing those little things that the collector found lackingmight well make the difference between 700 - 800 price and 1400 - 1500price! Happy Hollidays, Ted G. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Dec 18 23:56:23 1997 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Hank: Is there a rod makers gathering here-bouts, south of the Mason-Dixon. Ifnot, do you think it would be good to have one? Happy Hollidays, Ted G. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Dec 19 08:04:39 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod In a message dated 12/19/97 7:01:52 AM, you wrote: Darryl - A major rod company has to have employees and pay benefits,theyincurr overhead costs from their buildings, and have to print a ton of colorcatalogs, and pay comissions to the guys who sell their rods. They couldn'tbegin to sell a rod for the same price that a guy working part time in hisbasement can.I only know a few collectors. Most don't seem to be as nitpicky as thefellowyou ran into, but I suppose some are. I think it's up to the maker to decidewhat constitutes quality. That's easy for me to say, because I don't have tosell rods to pay the mortgage. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Dec 19 09:05:18 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 19Dec 1997 10:05:06 -0500 Subject: Listproc Just thought I would let everyone know if you get bumped off the list, only put: unsubscribe rodmakers Do not put your name. Just thought you all would like to know. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Dec 19 09:06:10 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod RO>In a message dated 97-12-18 21:10:36 EST, you write: RO>To all the others that wrote in with moral support, I do appreciateRO>the kind words, but I truly was not put off or deflated with hisRO>appraisal. In fact it was encouraging to know that my rods areRO>at the $800 to $900 level, and could be at the over $1000 levelRO>with just a few cosmetic corrections. RO>Darryl Hayashida Darryl, I sure hope this doesn't mean I shall have to expect to pay more for theanticipated rod blank! I think your blanks are excellent - the other details just take time. Anexposure to the work of others will give you an idea of the quality youneed to mirror. You might what to call Ed Pearlman and visit his"museum" to see the his collection of the "old masters". There's notthat many places here on the southern left coast to see the work ofmodern builders. I guess for that reason I'm going to try to get to Garyrock 98 somehow. Would anyone be able to pick me up at the Detroit airport and transportme to the "wilds" of Mich.? Anyone driving past there on the way up? Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Dec 19 09:19:50 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod RO>I guess for that reason I'm going to try to get to Garyrock 98 somehow. RO>Would anyone be able to pick me up at the Detroit airport and transportRO>me to the "wilds" of Mich.? Anyone driving past there on the way up? RO>Don Burns Correction -- Make that Grayrock 98. DGB from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Dec 19 11:07:22 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod In a message dated 97-12-19 01:44:41 EST, you write: Does this "collector" fish or build rods? Anal retentive indeed. Yes he does both, and is very knowledgeable about bamboorods. The reason I don't give his name is some people mighttake it as an endorsement of my rods, and he didn't do it forthat. He was helping me. Correction:He fishes and does historically accurate restorations of canerods. He doesn't build them from scratch. Darryl Hayashida from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Dec 19 11:18:59 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Ted, and list; Several of us in the deep South are planning a Rodmakers Get-Togetherin April or May, on the White River System in Arkansas. We are battingtwo dates around: April 18-19, 1998 and May 11-12, 1998. The idea came from frustrations I expressed at being 1500 miles from Grayrock, andsome strong words of encouragement from Chris Bogart and others on thislist.Tentative plans are to meet at Gene's Trout Dock in Norfork, rent thelodge, and split the costs. Should be somewhere between $5 and $25 eachper day, based on 8-20 people. I can't underwrite the costs totally,but I don't want to make a cent, either. I've made an agreement with afriend who runs a guide service, and he'll make you a special deal ifyou're interest in a day or two of guided fishing before, during, orafter.So far, 15 or 20 folks have expressed an interest, including onewell-known builder and nice guy from this list. Since I've never beento one of these gatherings, I don't know how to plan a formal program. My thoughts are that a bunch of us will show up, have a good time,learn, laugh, and make plans to do it all again. If anyone would liketo come and make some sort of formal presentation, let me know.The lodge at Gene's is about a really good double haul from myfavoritefishing hole, and home of former World Record sized brown trout. (38lbs, 9oz.) Within a quarter mile of Gene's you can almost bet on 40-50trout per day if water generation schedules permit wade fishing.I'm not quite positive about sleeping arrangements, etc., so I'llsacrifice a few days from my busy schedule and force myself to fish andcheck it all out January 1-3. That will give me an opportunity to tryout the first real (bamboo) rod I've built. It's a tough job, butsomeone has to do it! Anyone want to join me?Ted, I'm not sure where you are, but Arkansas is way south of theMason- Dixon line to which you refer, used so arbitrarily in the war ofnorthern aggression!(G) I hope you and quite a few others, even andmaybe especially, those from north of the line, will try to join us.I'd like to ask interested parties to contact me off-list with yourchoices of dates. As soon as a date has been set, we will try to getall the free publicity we can. Merry Christmas,Harry Boydfbcwin@fsbnet.com(318)435-4359 (days)2278 (nights) Ted Godfrey wrote: Hank: Is there a rod makers gathering here-bouts, south of the Mason-Dixon. If not, do you think it would be good to have one? Happy Hollidays, Ted G. from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Dec 19 12:40:11 1997 Subject: Hex shaped winding check Craig-If you don't want to make a tapered punch yourself...Jeff Wagner, 6549KingsdaleRd., Parma Heights, OH 44130 phone 216-845-4415 sells them(don't know what he's charging for them ) Dennis from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Dec 19 12:40:14 1997 Subject: Starrett phone # Help! I want to order some replacement 60 degree points but I lost the800# Thanks in Advance Dennis from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Dec 19 12:55:53 1997 Subject: Re: Starrett phone # Dennis, Starrett won't sell direct. They will sell through distributors,and may be able to give you a name in your area. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: dennis higham Subject: Starrett phone #Date: Friday, December 19, 1997 10:35 AM Help! I want to order some replacement 60 degree points but I lost the800# Thanks in Advance Dennis from d-deloach1@ti.com Fri Dec 19 13:01:07 1997 (8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA16033 for ; Fri, (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id VLTAAGBI; Fri, 19 Dec 199713:00:31 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Harry, Count me in on this one. Either date is fine for me but may I suggest theApriltimeframe since it is a little better for hatches. I think our esteemed webmeister might also be interested in this as well.Jerry? Don ------------------Original text Ted, and list; Several of us in the deep South are planning a Rodmakers Get-Togetherin April or May, on the White River System in Arkansas. We are battingtwo dates around: April 18-19, 1998 and May 11-12, 1998. The idea came from frustrations I expressed at being 1500 miles from Grayrock, andsome strong words of encouragement from Chris Bogart and others on thislist.Tentative plans are to meet at Gene's Trout Dock in Norfork, rent thelodge, and split the costs. Should be somewhere between $5 and $25 eachper day, based on 8-20 people. I can't underwrite the costs totally,but I don't want to make a cent, either. I've made an agreement with afriend who runs a guide service, and he'll make you a special deal ifyou're interest in a day or two of guided fishing before, during, orafter.So far, 15 or 20 folks have expressed an interest, including onewell-known builder and nice guy from this list. Since I've never beento one of these gatherings, I don't know how to plan a formal program. My thoughts are that a bunch of us will show up, have a good time,learn, laugh, and make plans to do it all again. If anyone would liketo come and make some sort of formal presentation, let me know.The lodge at Gene's is about a really good double haul from myfavoritefishing hole, and home of former World Record sized brown trout. (38lbs, 9oz.) Within a quarter mile of Gene's you can almost bet on 40-50trout per day if water generation schedules permit wade fishing.I'm not quite positive about sleeping arrangements, etc., so I'llsacrifice a few days from my busy schedule and force myself to fish andcheck it all out January 1-3. That will give me an opportunity to tryout the first real (bamboo) rod I've built. It's a tough job, butsomeone has to do it! Anyone want to join me?Ted, I'm not sure where you are, but Arkansas is way south of theMason- Dixon line to which you refer, used so arbitrarily in the war ofnorthern aggression!(G) I hope you and quite a few others, even andmaybe especially, those from north of the line, will try to join us.I'd like to ask interested parties to contact me off-list with yourchoices of dates. As soon as a date has been set, we will try to getall the free publicity we can. Merry Christmas,Harry Boydfbcwin@fsbnet.com(318)435-4359 (days)2278 (nights) Ted Godfrey wrote: Hank: Is there a rod makers gathering here-bouts, south of the Mason-Dixon. If not, do you think it would be good to have one? Happy Hollidays, Ted G. from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri Dec 19 14:18:21 1997 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id UAA27874 for; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 20:32:20 GMT Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) SalarFly wrote: . Take for instance a few peopleposted that they heat treat for one hour at 375 F. I put a couple stripsin my kitchen oven at 375, and in 30 min. it set off the smoke detectorand I had charcoal. Thinking that the temp of the oven was off I put athermometer in, set it at 375, and the thermometer read 350.But how do other people heat at 375 for one hourwhen I get curled up scorched pieces of cane in 30 minutes? Darryl Hayashida Darryl; The only thing I can come up with ( besides thinking these 375/1hr.people are pulling our legs) is that the oven is off when their cane piecesareput in. That would explain how the 1 hr. time could be derrived. My oventakes 15min. to get up and running at temp. from the time I turn it on. this wouldgive a350 f time of 45 min. max.I now use a heating tube which lets me heat treat an entire rod at onetime.The tube is made of an outer tube of steel and an inner tube of copper (veryexpensive un less you have the good fortune to know some one who tearsdowncommercial buildings for a living ). I heat the outer tube and let radientheatwarm up the inner copper. I use a thermocouple to keep track of theinterior tempand when it reaches 375 f , I shut off the heat. It takes 25 min. for theinterior temp. to start comming down. The rod sections are bound but notglued anywhere). So far I have encountered no disasters, knock on my wooden head. BryantCochran,Jr. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Dec 19 14:36:19 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: fuming There was a article in Fine Woodworking in the October issue that willbe very helpful. Patrick> from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Fri Dec 19 14:46:13 1997 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Harry, I'm interested. I also suggest the April dates for the same reasons. At the next meeting of the local Fly Fishing Club (Jan 12, 1998) I'llbring these dates up and see what the reaction is. I know that thereare a couple of cane rod builders in this area that might be interested.I'll contact you with what ever information I can gather. I would loveto join you at Gene's Trout Dock but the wife has made other plans forthat time frame. Dick Fuhrmandickfuhrman@rheemote.com(501) 452-1168 (Home)(501) 648- 4945 (Work)Fort Smith, AR from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Dec 19 15:07:27 1997 Subject: Re: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Harry, I don't know about the dates, but if possible I would like to be included. Mark ColeHouston, TX from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Dec 19 16:00:22 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod In a message dated 97-12-19 01:44:41 EST, you write: Does this "collector" fish or build rods? Anal retentive indeed. Yes he does both, and is very knowledgeable about bamboorods. The reason I don't give his name is some people mighttake it as an endorsement of my rods, and he didn't do it forthat. He was helping me. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Dec 19 16:00:23 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) In a message dated 97-12-19 01:41:55 EST, you write: Concerning your modified series of tapers-I used John Bokstrom'smethodofgradation to change the Cattanach 7' 9" for a 2/3 wgt. to a 7'6" for a2/3wgt. Guess what?I came up with a taper very close to your 7'6" for a 3 wgt! Anotherwheelinvented. Incidently-I flame my straightened strips rather the wholeculm.Hank.P.S. The rod casts a 3 wgt fairly well. Credit where credit is due. Those are Wayne Cattanach's tapers.He just named them after me. Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Dec 19 16:44:14 1997 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? At 23:17 19/12/97 -0600, Harry wrote:Ted, and list; So far, 15 or 20 folks have expressed an interest, including onewell-known builder and nice guy from this list. Since I've never beento one of these gatherings, I don't know how to plan a formal program. My thoughts are that a bunch of us will show up, have a good time,learn, laugh, and make plans to do it all again. If anyone would liketo come and make some sort of formal presentation, let me know. Harry, Why don't you contact John Bokstrom @ about theprogram. John organized the first/second meetings in Merritt B.C. that hasgrown into perhaps the largest bamboo gathering of them all. [ 75 buildersthis years and turning them away do to lack of room.] He likely could helpyou with some ideas. Don Andersen from tedgodfreys@erols.com Fri Dec 19 16:53:38 1997 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Ted, and list; Several of us in the deep South are planning a Rodmakers Get-Togetherin April or May, on the White River System in Arkansas. We are battingtwo dates around: April 18-19, 1998 and May 11-12, 1998. The ideacame from frustrations I expressed at being 1500 miles from Grayrock, andsome strong words of encouragement from Chris Bogart and others onthislist.. . . . .Harry Boyd Harry and others, Thank you for the information - sounds wonderfull!!! I live in Maryland andmy original inquiry was, well, bait - I am ashamed of my self (again). Iwas hoping to bait Hank W. into thinking about setting up a gathering forus"Blue Ridge" folk. I want to go to Arkansas, but like some other greatplaces/gatherings, it's some distance from here. from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Dec 19 17:19:31 1997 Subject: Rehash - small lathe All, I know that about a year ago there was a long thread about lathes andthe Sherwood was often talked about, but I have an opportunity topurchase a CenTech lathe (Harbor Freight brand) and would like someinput regarding it. The lathe in question is a bench top 7"x10" metal lathe, with 3-jawself- centering chuck, pass-through head-stock (1/2" or 3/4"), misc.gears, tools and whatnot. Plus it's variable speed. It's a made in Chinaunit and I'm sure isn't the greatest lathe in the world - but will it do making needs? My use will be just the odd ferrule or two - plus rodwork. I have no experience with lathes and won't be running a machineshop at any time in this life. The store offers a 30 return policy on the lathe, the selling price isnormally $399.99 (sometimes on sale for $349.99), but this one isdiscounted to $299.99 because a rubber foot is missing. (first latheproject?) Thanks and Merry Christmas to all, Don Burns from stpete@netten.net Fri Dec 19 17:27:08 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA16706 for; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:43:43 -0600 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Ted Godfrey wrote: Hank: Is there a rod makers gathering here-bouts, south of the Mason-Dixon. Ifnot, do you think it would be good to have one? Happy Hollidays, Ted G. I'd go. Rick C. (stpete@netten.net) from stpete@netten.net Fri Dec 19 17:33:50 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA17115 for; Fri, 19 Dec 1997 17:50:28 -0600 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Harry, I'm interested. I'll have to confirm dates. Will check them and getback to you. Rick in Memphis from RMATARAZZO@worldnet.att.net Fri Dec 19 18:36:54 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA10177 +0000 Subject: Re: Starrett phone # dennis higham wrote: Help! I want to order some replacement 60 degree points but I lost the800# Thanks in Advance Dennis The Starret phone number is (800) 254-8690. I think they will just giveyou the name of a distributor in your area. Then you have to orderthrough the distributor. They sure make it a lot of work just to getthose little thingies. Good Luck,Bob Matarazzo from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Dec 19 19:31:50 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod Don -I don't know about Detroit Metro - but if you take the extension toTraverse City I'm sure that some one can make the 45 minute drive tofetch andreturn Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Dec 19 19:35:14 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod Sir D-I agree with what Joe L has said - an honest evalutaion of ones workhelps us grow at the craft. I have had several ask me to examine their rodsand I always tell the makers what I see but I always include the details ofhow they can change what I see. It is a fine line - a fly rod is simply tofish with - but for some the personal satisfaction of doing the best thatonecan is part of the reward of what we are doing here. I know folks thatmake$300 fly rods and they are happy at doing that and I also know those thatmakeperhaps some of the best rods ever made. Each of us need to make thedecisionof that balance and others need to respect that. Wayne from jfoster@gte.net Fri Dec 19 20:24:50 1997 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Sure would Jerry Don Where have you been.. give me a call, come see my shop from jfoster@gte.net Fri Dec 19 20:26:48 1997 Subject: Re: Starrett phone # mac-creator="4D4F5353" Dennis shame on you , you know theres a link on the pageJerry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Dec 19 21:27:15 1997 Subject: Re: Rehash - small lathe mac-creator="4D4F5353" Ralph.Steve, Wayne, others Doug Hall had a idea that i should post a calander of events on the page to impliment ,so, anyone who would like to submit anything (makers rod,gatherings,etc.) send it to me offline if its graphical or through thelistproc if you wish,Mike, where are you too? Jerry from WDHCJL@aol.com Fri Dec 19 21:34:12 1997 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Deep South?? from jfoster@gte.net Fri Dec 19 21:50:39 1997 Subject: Re: Listproc mac-creator="4D4F5353" Jon Thanks for the directions reminder,,i fixed the directions page toreflect the proper dialog Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Dec 19 22:33:36 1997 Subject: books mac-creator="4D4F5353" added a link to Acses bookfinder search engine, thanks to Edward fromBelgiumJerry from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Dec 20 05:14:19 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA30763 for; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 11:16:53 GMT Subject: Lathe Work At last, my little Myford Super Seven lathe is up and running properly. Likeeveryone else, I'm sure, I've now made any number of winding checks,slidingreel bands, and handle caps. It's time to move on. At my school, anyone with more than a few brain cells was steered wellaway from engineering - bloody shame - so coming new to the craft at the ageof52 I'm feeling my way along, with the help of some textbooks, and a coupleof engineering genius chums. Slow, slow, measure twice cut once. I'd like to try to make some ferrules. I seem to remember that there was athread about this some months ago. Can someone point me in the rightdirection? Nickel-silver tube is all but unobtainable here, but I may beable to get some brass tube. Plan b: I can turn from solid - although I'mfinding it difficult to cut SERIOUSLY parallel holes: I guess that isfundamental in ferrule manufacture. Project 2: I'd like to make a reel, perhaps something for a DT#3, and reallylight in weight. Does anyone have a set of drawing for such a damsel? Thank's in advance fellas. John Cooper (England) from jczimny@dol.net Sat Dec 20 07:52:12 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work J.Cooper wrote: At last, my little Myford Super Seven lathe is up and running properly.Likeeveryone else, I'm sure, I've now made any number of winding checks,slidingreel bands, and handle caps. It's time to move on. At my school, anyone with more than a few brain cells was steered wellaway from engineering - bloody shame - so coming new to the craft at the ageof52 I'm feeling my way along, with the help of some textbooks, and acoupleof engineering genius chums. Slow, slow, measure twice cut once. I'd like to try to make some ferrules. I seem to remember that there wasathread about this some months ago. Can someone point me in the rightdirection? Nickel-silver tube is all but unobtainable here, but I may beable to get some brass tube. Plan b: I can turn from solid - although I'mfinding it difficult to cut SERIOUSLY parallel holes: I guess that isfundamental in ferrule manufacture. Project 2: I'd like to make a reel, perhaps something for a DT#3, andreallylight in weight. Does anyone have a set of drawing for such a damsel? Thank's in advance fellas. John Cooper (England)Congradulations on acquiring the very best. You could not have purchaseda better tool for the rodmaker. Now, if they'd only make that spindle alittle bigger in ID....John Zimny from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Dec 20 08:09:04 1997 Subject: Dial Indicator All, The local Harbor Freight tool store has a 1" S.S. dial indicator on sale at 1/2 off at some point. (something like Sears ) Their S.S. 6" dial caliper is just going off sale - $14.99 vs $29.99. They have different part #'s than the (800) national Harbor Freight andare NOT allowed to ship from the stores. But anyone living close to astore should take a look. Don Burns from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Dec 20 09:14:55 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod If you fly to Grand Rapids I can haul you up to Grayling, depending onschedules, etc. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Dec 20 09:17:56 1997 Subject: Re: Rehash - small lathe Great idea! from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Dec 20 09:24:08 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work John, I'd think brass too soft for a ferrule. But as it is the easiestmachining stuff around(and cheap!) maybe it would be a good metal torefine your set-up and run-off a few for knick-knacks, tie-tacks, fridgemagnets, etc. They would be very handsome. My $.02. Brian from stpete@netten.net Sat Dec 20 10:04:53 1997 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA01602 for; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 10:21:50 -0600 Subject: Re: Dial Indicator I bought a dial indicator for $12.99 and thought I got a good deal. NowI find that it doesn't read the DEPTH that I was hoping it would. Ihave to subtract the reading from 1.000". It reads travel distance withthe full 1.000" extended being 0.000" and the full flush retractedreading 1.000". Question: is this normal or is there a Depth indicator which would read0.000" at flush with the base and 1.000" at the full extended plunger? How do you guys handle this? Rick from nicksco@fia.net Sat Dec 20 10:09:44 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA29479 for Subject: Re: Dial Indicator flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: All, The local Harbor Freight tool store has a 1" S.S. dial indicator on sale at 1/2 off at some point. (something like Sears ) Their S.S. 6" dial caliper is just going off sale - $14.99 vs $29.99. They have different part #'s than the (800) national Harbor Freight andare NOT allowed to ship from the stores. But anyone living close to astore should take a look. Don BurnsI live just down the street from a Harbor Freight store in Las Vegas,NV What do you need to know? I will gladdy run by and see them. C. O.Nicks from nicksco@fia.net Sat Dec 20 10:24:57 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA00998 for Subject: Re: Dial Indicator flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: All, The local Harbor Freight tool store has a 1" S.S. dial indicator on sale at 1/2 off at some point. (something like Sears ) Their S.S. 6" dial caliper is just going off sale - $14.99 vs $29.99. They have different part #'s than the (800) national Harbor Freight andare NOT allowed to ship from the stores. But anyone living close to astore should take a look. Don BurnsSeeing I live just a few blocks from the Harbor Freight store in LasVegas I would be willing to pick up anything anyone on the list needsand send it to them. I don't know the quality of their things. I havebought needle files from them for jewely work and they seem ok! from Dlaurenza@aol.com Sat Dec 20 10:42:39 1997 Subject: New List-member and rodmakers gathering - South Hello List-members.I'm a new member to the list. My name is DonLaurenzana andI reside in No. Little Rock, Arkansas. I purchased a P.C. about 6 mo. ago andI've been following the list for about 3 mo.. I've been an avid flyfisher for40 plus years and flytyer for the last 20. During the last two and one halfyears, I have been crafting split cane rods,and have finished my tenth rod ,just recently. This project would never had gotten started had it not beenforthe writings of Garrison, Wayne Cattanach, George Maurer, "The PlaningForm"and a local cane rod restorer, Leo Eck and I want to thank them all fortheirhelp. I have two comments for the List : one: Can anyone help me in theunderstanding of rod design and dynamics or is this something that justcomeswith more experience and rod-building. Two: I would be definitelyinterestedin attending a meeting of rod-makers, South, and if there is anything I candoto help, let me know. Thanks and Happy Holidays. Don Laurenzana. Home #5018352990, Work 501 8333536. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Dec 20 11:06:23 1997 Subject: Re: Dial Indicator RO>I bought a dial indicator for $12.99 and thought I got a good deal. NowRO>I find that it doesn't read the DEPTH that I was hoping it would. IRO>have to subtract the reading from 1.000". It reads travel distance withRO>the full 1.000" extended being 0.000" and the full flush retractedRO>reading 1.000". RO>Question: is this normal or is there a Depth indicator which would readRO>0.000" at flush with the base and 1.000" at the full extended plunger? RO>How do you guys handle this? RO>Rick Rick, The one I bought at Harbor F. was the dial calibrated 0 - 100 and 100 -0 - plus it has a face that can rotate 360 deg's so that you can "zero"a reading at any point around the dial. Not bad for ~$7.00. Don B. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Dec 20 11:19:43 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work John, I carry nickel silver tubing for making ferrules. If you E-mailme your mailing address, I will send you my price sheet with specs. I alsohave info on makingferrules,as published in the Planing Form.I would be glad to send a copyalongwith the tubing. Dave LeClair from mrj@seanet.com Sat Dec 20 11:24:57 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11651 for Subject: Re: Dial Indicator yes this is normal. My indicator has an inner readout scale which reads foropposite travel though. I would think most have this.PS once you get used to it it probably won't be a real problem. My indicatorcost $16 bucks so it is more or less the same quality as yours.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Dial Indicator I bought a dial indicator for $12.99 and thought I got a good deal. NowI find that it doesn't read the DEPTH that I was hoping it would. Ihave to subtract the reading from 1.000". It reads travel distance withthe full 1.000" extended being 0.000" and the full flush retractedreading 1.000". Question: is this normal or is there a Depth indicator which would read0.000" at flush with the base and 1.000" at the full extended plunger? How do you guys handle this? Rick from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Dec 20 14:41:46 1997 Subject: Re: A collector looks at my rod RO>Don -RO> I don't know about Detroit Metro - but if you take the extension toRO>Traverse City I'm sure that some one can make the 45 minute drive tofetch aRO>return RO>Wayne Wayne, Thanks, but if I can't bum a car from my dad, I've got someone willingto give me a ride up from Detroit Metro. Could you repost the dates ofthe gathering? Seems the dates posted before might be wrong? Don from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Dec 20 15:47:07 1997 Subject: Re: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Ted,I don't know of any get togethers hereabouts but it might be fun to getonegoing. Marcia and I are in Montana July and August and I will try to get tothe one in Idaho Falls on Aug. 5. Maybe a fall gathering would be good. Anylist members interested in a gathering near Wash., D.C.?Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Dec 20 15:49:36 1997 Subject: Re: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Harry,I'm interested in the May dates-I'm 50 miles west of Wash. D.C. If I'mnotbooked up with fly fishing schools and/or guiding I'd like to come for boththe rod making and the fishing.My wife would probably come along just forthefishing.Hank. from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Dec 20 16:02:19 1997 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id WAA26178 for; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 22:55:25 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Lathe Work ----------From: J.Cooper Subject: Lathe WorkDate: 20. december 1997 12:14 At last, my little Myford Super Seven lathe is up and running properly.Likeeveryone else, I'm sure, I've now made any number of winding checks,slidingreel bands, and handle caps. It's time to move on. At my school, anyone with more than a few brain cells was steered wellaway from engineering - bloody shame - so coming new to the craft at the ageof52 I'm feeling my way along, with the help of some textbooks, and acoupleof engineering genius chums. Slow, slow, measure twice cut once. I'd like to try to make some ferrules. I seem to remember that there wasathread about this some months ago. Can someone point me in the rightdirection? Nickel-silver tube is all but unobtainable here, but I may beable to get some brass tube. Plan b: I can turn from solid - although I'mfinding it difficult to cut SERIOUSLY parallel holes: I guess that isfundamental in ferrule manufacture. Project 2: I'd like to make a reel, perhaps something for a DT#3, andreallylight in weight. Does anyone have a set of drawing for such a damsel? Thank's in advance fellas. John Cooper (England) John I've got a Myford Super Seven myself. And like You, I have no formaltraining as engineer (by profession a salesperson). Just go for it, learnit the hard way. from Your message I'd say Your attitude is right, so dontworry, it will all come to You in good time.Myford did, years ago, market abook about turning. Try to get hold of it second-hand. About holes: Get a set of decent drills and an adjustable reamer. That, aswiss file, wet-and-dry paper plus patience are all You''ll need for makingferrules.Here in Denmark NS is bl.... expensive too. So I make ferrules out ofbrass. Make them a bit thicker, and they will last forever. AND togetherwith golden rings and brass fittings Your rods will look good. About making Your own reels: Visit some tackle shops, look at theexpensivereels and get ideas. The beautifull thing about having a lathe is thepossibility of doing it Your way. If You decide to make reels out ofaluminium, be sure to get the right type of alu. For turning You will wantthe type, where the cut will come off looking like peeling an orange. Theother type, were the off-cut looks like confetti will not look good whenthe stuff is anodized. Get advice from Your engineering pals. Do not discard wood as a material for reel building. I've made a couple ofreels out of wood myself and have fished them regularly for a couple ofYears. They are not especially heavy or bulky, and made in the same woodasthe reel-seat, toghether with brass fittings, You'll have a uniquecombination. When You are at it, make a priest out of a piece of splitcane- brass weighed ofcourse..... So there You have it. The possibilities are endless when You have a lathe.It is all a question of time. Good luck Best regards Carsten from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sat Dec 20 16:15:39 1997 QAA19733 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:15:33 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id QAA14084 for ; doing -bs Subject: Re: Dial Indicator Yes, some of the inexpensive ones have 2 sets of numbers, one in redand one in black, for reading each way. I've got one like yours. I took off the bezel (just pry out a wire ring), then printed new numbers 10,20,...,90 on paper, cut themout and glued them over the old numbers (90,80,...,10) with a little ifly head cement. No more mental math :-)......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sat, 20 Dec 1997, stpete wrote: I bought a dial indicator for $12.99 and thought I got a good deal. NowI find that it doesn't read the DEPTH that I was hoping it would. Ihave to subtract the reading from 1.000". It reads travel distance withthe full 1.000" extended being 0.000" and the full flush retractedreading 1.000". Question: is this normal or is there a Depth indicator which would read0.000" at flush with the base and 1.000" at the full extended plunger? How do you guys handle this? Rick from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Dec 20 17:15:52 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work LECLAIR123 wrote: John, I carry nickel silver tubing for making ferrules. If you E-mailme your mailing address, I will send you my price sheet with specs. Ialsohave info on makingferrules,as published in the Planing Form.I would be glad to send a copyalongwith the tubing. Dave LeClair Dave:If not too much trouble, I'd like a price list George BarnesRR #1, Box 95Harpswell, Maine 04079 from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Dec 20 17:21:50 1997 Subject: Re: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? -----Original Message----- Ted,I don't know of any get togethers hereabouts but it might be fun to getonegoing. Marcia and I are in Montana July and August and I will try to get tothe one in Idaho Falls on Aug. 5. Maybe a fall gathering would be good. Anylist members interested in a gathering near Wash., D.C.?Hank. Hank,Thank you very much for considering the idea. I don't know how manylist members live around here, but we can try. Might (or might not) begoodto include some fishing in a get-together. I am so new or at least aretread in regard to cane building, I sure appreciate any leadership you andothers could provide. I'm happy to do any of nuts-and-bolts type work youthink would help. Happy Hollidays, Ted G. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Dec 20 17:25:59 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lathe Work John, I carry nickel silver tubing for making ferrules. If youE-mailme your mailing address, I will send you my price sheet with specs. I alsohave info on makingferrules,as published in the Planing Form.I would be glad to send a copyalongwith the tubing. Dave LeClairDave: I would also appreciate a price list of NS and any other materials, toolsyou carry. Thank you, Ted Godfrey3509 Pleasant Plains Dr.Reisterstown, Md. 21136(410) 239 8468 FAX: 410 374 5719 from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Dec 20 17:34:54 1997 Subject: Dates for Grayrock The Official dates for Grayrock are June 26 and 27. These are theplannedevents - demos and talks during the day on friday - friday night has beenthepizza party social - but it looks as if there is interest to have a BringRoadkill To Pass potluck. Saturday more demos and talks. Saturday eveningisTTBBBQ IV featuring the raffle of The Makers Rod.A tradition of past years has been a kick off picnic at the Love Bugs onthursday (June 25) evening. The Unofficial dates for Grayrock are June 20 - 27 - the reason for theextended time period is that several come from such distance they use thetimeas a vacation - during this extended time there is less planning than usual-hanging out at the clubhouse - last year several made use of theworkbenchesand tools to polish rodmaking skills - I shared fishing the Jordan with agroup - the talk this year is to spend a day and campout for a night. I haveteased a couple participants that they have so much fun that a note fromthespouse will be required. Wayne from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Dec 20 17:42:16 1997 Subject: Lathe books - was lathe work John, I pulled out the Brownells gunsmithing catalog and looked for latheoperation books. They've got 3 listed, including "The Amateur's Lathe" detail, how to use your new lathe." plus "Profusely illustrated withphotos and drawings." Sounds like something you could get in the UK too.Has 224 pages and is $17.40 (US$). I just wish I knew a little bit more about a lathe myself - I think I'mgoing to buy the Chinese-made CenTech lathe and will no doubt find outthat it won't do something I'll need it to do. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from RMATARAZZO@worldnet.att.net Sat Dec 20 18:02:41 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA13714 +0000 Subject: Re: Dial Indicator stpete wrote: I bought a dial indicator for $12.99 and thought I got a good deal. NowI find that it doesn't read the DEPTH that I was hoping it would. Ihave to subtract the reading from 1.000". It reads travel distance withthe full 1.000" extended being 0.000" and the full flush retractedreading 1.000". Question: is this normal or is there a Depth indicator which would read0.000" at flush with the base and 1.000" at the full extended plunger? How do you guys handle this? Rick Rick, If you look closely at your dial indicator, you may see a second set ofnumbers that go around the dial in the opposite direction from the mainnumbers. That's what you use. (Even my cheap ENCO has them.) Bob Matarazzo from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Dec 20 18:10:45 1997 TAA28794 for ; Sat, 20 Dec 1997 19:10:44-0500 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Hank I kind of look at Roscoe as the "east" gathering that is a reasonabledrive from here. I do Grayrock because of "tradition" - not to mention the fun! I do not know if we could stand another "gathering" this year. But,let meoffer the following: I was toying with the idea to have an "open house" shop latter in the spring / summer. This could serve as an informal gettogether and generalBS session with some informal activities for a reasonable group (approx20 or so).It could be a day long event on a Saturday. This could form the basis for aBlue Ridge/ Mid Atlantic Event. Let me know what you think and poss dates.There is plenty of camping and cabins avail for those who want tostay overnight. Plus I am right on the South Fork of the Shenandoah at Bealer's Ferry canoelaunch with easy access to some of the best Smallmouth fishing anywhere. I also have a small casting pond. On Sat, 20 Dec 1997 16:46:18 EST, FISHWOOL wrote: Ted,I don't know of any get togethers hereabouts but it might be fun to getonegoing. Marcia and I are in Montana July and August and I will try to get tothe one in Idaho Falls on Aug. 5. Maybe a fall gathering would be good. Anylist members interested in a gathering near Wash., D.C.?Hank. Regards Chris from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Dec 20 18:22:51 1997 Subject: Seasons Greetings To the ListIn this holiday season why don't you all give yourselves a super presentlike a five sided rod? Merry Christmas. Bill from JHecht9234@aol.com Sun Dec 21 00:12:14 1997 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? I'm a beginner who lives in D.C. I would certainly be interested and have afriend who I'm sure would as well. from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun Dec 21 09:14:25 1997 Subject: Vocation Dear Friends,I want inform you that I am in vocation from 25 December to 04.January1998.I send to all subscriber my best wishes, Merry Christmas and Happy NewYear. Marco Boretti from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Dec 21 10:05:57 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? WDHCJL wrote: in April or May, on the White River System in Arkansas. > Deep South?? Deep South, I think, refers to states that are too far South to borderthe Mason-Dixon line. Also, to states that produce more cotton thantobacco, states that have grits on the McDonalds menu, etc.! from WDHCJL@aol.com Sun Dec 21 14:03:58 1997 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? In a message dated 97-12-21 11:15:13 EST, you write: in April or May, on the White River System in Arkansas. > Deep South?? Deep South, I think, refers to states that are too far South to borderthe Mason-Dixon line. Also, to states that produce more cotton thantobacco, states that have grits on the McDonalds menu, etc.! Thank you for the clarification. As a sidenote, I'm from GA. and most"folk"down here will not even go as far as tenn. without walking backwards andatleast facing south.doug from EMiller257@aol.com Sun Dec 21 15:21:20 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings Bill, why a five-sided over a hex? Or if you really want to be radical, howabout a quad? I'm a little surprised there's not a little more interest inboth of these alternatives. Ed Miller from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Dec 21 16:52:14 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings Bill, Thank you . Bret ( Highlander) from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Dec 21 17:08:18 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Seasons Greetings Ed, A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerful because ofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 or six sidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Dec 21 19:28:59 1997 Subject: Re: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Chris,Sounds like a great idea-we leave for Montana the end of June, earlier ifwetake in Grayrock.Sometime in May perhaps?Hank. from M1L2@aol.com Sun Dec 21 20:50:04 1997 Subject: Unsuscribe Please unsuscribe me from the list. Thank you. Myron Ward from jczimny@dol.net Sun Dec 21 22:27:58 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Ed,A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerful because ofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 or six sidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square.Wrong!Zimny from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sun Dec 21 23:02:10 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Ed,A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerful becauseofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 or six sidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square. Wrong!Zimny Mr. Z., That's the short answer; what's the long answer or is it stated adequatelyin another book I have overlooked? I understand there is extra stress atthe peak of the five strip, but what is the whole story (sorry if I amasking for too much bandwidth)? Happy Holidays, Ted G. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Dec 22 06:51:26 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA16366 for; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:54:32 GMT Subject: Re: Lathe Work At 10:21 20/12/97 -0500, you wrote:John, I'd think brass too soft for a ferrule. But as it is the easiestmachining stuff around(and cheap!) maybe it would be a good metal torefine your set-up and run-off a few for knick-knacks, tie-tacks, fridgemagnets, etc. They would be very handsome. My $.02. Brian Brian, Don, Carsten, etc. etc. Thank's for the input. Any idea where in the archive I might find moreinfo.? The problem with importing N/S from David LeClair is that I need so manysizes. I'd end up with a hell of a stock at considerable expense. As mostwill know, British ferrules are mostly made from brass tube. Nickel silveris certainly better, but in fairness, I have about 100 vintage rods instock, most of which have brass ferrules that are functioning perfectly -some after the better part of 100 years of life. Just a thought on cheapo Chinese lathes: Bedamned the GAT agreement -buy anAmerican lathe. If you don't buy American lathes, you'll end up with noAmerican lathe industry. We used to make super motorcycles, but it allsays'made in Hishimoto' these days, because we ignored the threat of importsinthe early sixties. Nothing against the other nations, but if you don't useit, you loose it. Happy to buy American/ Commonwealth goods - these arereciprocally balanced trading partners. I admire the Chinese enormously,butI'd like to put off the inevitable moment when everything I buy is sourcedvia Beijing. Oh dear - Coops on his soapbox again - sorry chaps. If anyone can suggest a source of reel drawings, I'd certainly like to hearabout it. John Cooper (England) from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Dec 22 06:51:28 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA16373 for; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 12:54:46 GMT Subject: Re: Lathe Work David, Thank you for the offer of your Planing Form article. I'd very much like acopy of that: Chalford ManorStoney CrossHampshireSO43 7GPEngland It's very kind of you. Happy Christmas David. John At 11:45 20/12/97 EST, you wrote:John, I carry nickel silver tubing for making ferrules. If you E-mailme your mailing address, I will send you my price sheet with specs. I alsohave info on makingferrules,as published in the Planing Form.I would be glad to send a copyalongwith the tubing. Dave LeClair from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Dec 22 08:16:09 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lathe Work British ferrules are mostly made from brass tube. Nickel silveris certainly better, but in fairness, I have about 100 vintage rods instock, most of which have brass ferrules that are functioning perfectly -some after the better part of 100 years of life. about it.John Cooper (England) John,I wonder which brass alloy, anyone know? - might be important! In regard to avalible reel drawings - I can't imagine - get out yourfavorite reel and calliper and have-at-it . . . I and probably a number offolks on the list know something about reel design. If you have somethingspecific in mind, feel free to contact me direct - off List. Happy Holidays, Ted Godfrey from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Dec 22 08:45:35 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work RO>Brian, Don, Carsten, etc. etc. RO>Thank's for the input. Any idea where in the archive I might find moreinfo. No, sorry I don't. My local bookstore (normally quite good) has nothingon the use of metal lathes. Try Brownells, Inc. (515) 623-5401 FAX -3896:200 South Front StreetMonetuma, IA 50171-1000 Item #053-009-000 "The Amateur's Lathe" @$17.40 RO>The problem with importing N/S from David LeClair is that I need somanyRO>sizes. I'd end up with a hell of a stock at considerable expense. AsmostRO>will know, British ferrules are mostly made from brass tube. NickelsilverRO>is certainly better, but in fairness, I have about 100 vintage rods inRO>stock, most of which have brass ferrules that are functioningperfectly -RO>some after the better part of 100 years of life. In the USA, brass is assoc. with plated thin-walled cheapy ferrules thatfailed (within seconds?) of being mfg'd. RO>Just a thought on cheapo Chinese lathes: Bedamned the GAT agreement- buy anRO>American lathe. If you don't buy American lathes, you'll end up with noRO>American lathe industry. We used to make super motorcycles, but it allsaysRO>'made in Hishimoto' these days, because we ignored the threat ofimports inRO>the early sixties. Nothing against the other nations, but if you don't useRO>it, you loose it. Happy to buy American/ Commonwealth goods - theseareRO>reciprocally balanced trading partners. I admire the Chineseenormously, butRO>I'd like to put off the inevitable moment when everything I buy issourcedRO>via Beijing. RO>Oh dear - Coops on his soapbox again - sorry chaps. RO>If anyone can suggest a source of reel drawings, I'd certainly like tohearRO>about it. RO>John Cooper (England) Normally, I'd agree 100% since we've already given up 90% of our machinetool industry to eastern mfg'rs. But I don't know of an USA-made lathethat I could store away after use nor one that would cost me only a fewhundred bucks. I've got a machine tool dealer friend and he's not beenable to find a suitable lathe for me - he has had some cheap usedindustrial lathes would take up a good part of my garage and wouldrequire a major rewiring job. (the house is built on a slab, so nobasement workshop - plus no 220 VAC outlets) I live in Los Angeles and we're the warehouse for the rest of the USA from cheaper/quicker deliveries of capital goods from Japan/Korea et al- than from Ohio. Now what remains of any local mfg. is moving toMexico. (GAT hell - try NAFTA) I can't figure out how I can buy a decentstainless steel dial indicator at the local imported tool store for$7.00 - cost to mfg must be well under $3.50 in China. Sorry for the bandwidth usage too. Merry Christmas to all, Don Burns from RICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.mail.saic.com Mon Dec 22 08:59:571997 1997 14:59:48 UT 97 06:59:44 -0800 Subject: Re: Lathe Work Remember, brass is an alloy of copper and zinc. Nickel silver is an alloyofcopper, zinc, and nickel. Seems to me that nickel silver should be slightlystronger but not by that much. Construction details probably override anyinherent metalurgical advantages. I think. --Rich------------------------------ -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Lathe Work British ferrules are mostly made from brass tube. Nickel silveris certainly better, but in fairness, I have about 100 vintage rods instock, most of which have brass ferrules that are functioning perfectly -some after the better part of 100 years of life. about it.John Cooper (England) John,I wonder which brass alloy, anyone know? - might be important! In regard to avalible reel drawings - I can't imagine - get out yourfavorite reel and calliper and have-at-it . . . I and probably a number offolks on the list know something about reel design. If you have somethingspecific in mind, feel free to contact me direct - off List. Happy Holidays, Ted Godfrey ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ 06:22:25 -0800 09:22:23 -0500 #23425)with ESMTP id forRICHARD.A.MARGIOTTA@cpmx.mail.saic.com; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:22:16 - Subject: Re: Lathe Work from Thomas.ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Mon Dec 22 09:16:14 1997 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA04480 for; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 10:16:06 -0500 Subject: Season's greetings Merry christmas to all. My early christmas present this year was a new job. Along with it, comes new location. Effective Jan 9, I'll be off-line until I get settled. I'll send a note to rodmakers before I unsub. I'll be located out by Rochester, NY,so any listers in that area feel free to give me any info on the area. Have a happy holiday !!!!! Tom Ausfeld from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Dec 22 09:18:54 1997 (may be forged)) Subject: Re: Lathe Work John Cooper Lathe Corp., 400 West Sample St., South Bend, Indiana. USA, 46601 Phone1-800-24-LATHE or (219) 289-7771 or FAX (219) 236-1210. The cost is$20.00 U.S. Their part number for the book is CE3450. I used one yearsago in a machine shop class that I took. I understand that the pictureshaven't be updated since then so this is a good statement on the stylesof the time the book was written. I plan to order one with my nextorder of parts needed to restore my lathe. I recently bought a used 9" swing South Bend Lathe with a 54" bed. Itwas kept on a back porch and was covered with grease & grime. I'm inthe process of cleaning it up and building a stand for it. I think nowthat my wife might realize that she is never going to get her car in thegarage unless she allows me to build a workshop in the backyard. Thegood thing about the grease is that the machine is in pretty good shape.Just normal wear for its age. When I called to get some information from the Service Department, they FAXed me a page saying that the lathehad been shipped from their factory May 28, 1945. 52 years old. Itonly a year younger than I am, and I'm not in as good a shape. John, I hope that this helps you or anyone else on the list. Merry Christmas to all and Tight Lines in 1998. Dick Fuhrman from tball@mail.portup.com Mon Dec 22 10:25:24 1997 Subject: Re: Guides Davy, I got some products of Epon such as the Epon resin 828 and theEpi- cure V-40 from Miller-Stephenson Chemical Company, Inc P.O. Box950,Danbury, Connecticut 06810 203-743-4447 Haven't used them yet,butthese were referred to me on the list this summer. Don't know anythingabout your product , but suggest you call the company and inquire abouttheir use for rod building. When I called them, they were very cordial.I'm quite sure their tech group could help.Tom from Trout Lake from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Dec 22 10:26:42 1997 Subject: Re: Dates for Grayrock Wayne , there is camping nearbye? I am considering making a trek fromOregon. Have a truck, and will have a canopy for it by then. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Wayne Catt Subject: Dates for GrayrockDate: Saturday, December 20, 1997 3:34 PM The Official dates for Grayrock are June 26 and 27. These are theplannedevents - demos and talks during the day on friday - friday night has beenthepizza party social - but it looks as if there is interest to have a BringRoadkill To Pass potluck. Saturday more demos and talks. SaturdayeveningisTTBBBQ IV featuring the raffle of The Makers Rod.A tradition of past years has been a kick off picnic at the LoveBugs onthursday (June 25) evening. The Unofficial dates for Grayrock are June 20 - 27 - the reason fortheextended time period is that several come from such distance they usethetimeas a vacation - during this extended time there is less planning thanusual -hanging out at the clubhouse - last year several made use of theworkbenchesand tools to polish rodmaking skills - I shared fishing the Jordan with agroup - the talk this year is to spend a day and campout for a night. Ihaveteased a couple participants that they have so much fun that a note fromthespouse will be required. Wayne from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Dec 22 10:41:48 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work J.Cooper wrote: At 10:21 20/12/97 -0500, you wrote:John, I'd think brass too soft for a ferrule. But as it is the easiestmachining stuff around(and cheap!) maybe it would be a good metal torefine your set-up and run-off a few for knick-knacks, tie-tacks, fridgemagnets, etc. They would be very handsome. My $.02. Brian Brian, Don, Carsten, etc. etc. Just a thought on cheapo Chinese lathes: Bedamned the GAT agreement -buy anAmerican lathe. If you don't buy American lathes, you'll end up with noAmerican lathe industry. We used to make super motorcycles, but it allsays'made in Hishimoto' these days, because we ignored the threat of importsinthe early sixties. Nothing against the other nations, but if you don't useit, you loose it. Happy to buy American/ Commonwealth goods - these arereciprocally balanced trading partners. I admire the Chinese enormously,butI'd like to put off the inevitable moment when everything I buy issourcedvia Beijing. Oh dear - Coops on his soapbox again - sorry chaps. John Cooper (England) Right on! I've been told, on fairly good authority, that we now manufacturenothing but waste paper. George Barnes from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Dec 22 11:27:53 1997 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA267011672; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 09:27:52 -0800 Subject: Midwraps I'm thinking ahead to the finish work and would like to know if any of you put midwraps on your rods and if so how do you feel about whethermidwraps affect the action of the rod. I assume more finish will collect around each midwrap, and add some weight. If I place midwraps the spacing will be about 1" apart in the butt and mid and closer in the tips as the guide spacing shortens. I will use 3 to 4 turns of 3/0 silk, and will use minimal color preserver and a thin coat of finish, dipped. Do any of you have experience with a similar layout, and do you feel it does or does not have any significant affect on the rod action? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Dec 22 14:44:58 1997 Subject: Harbor Freight URL: All, Here's Harbor Freight's tool url site:http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/html/hotitems/powertools/main.html Merry Christmas, Don Burns from jczimny@dol.net Mon Dec 22 15:30:52 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 11:30 PMSubject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Ed,A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerful becauseofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 or sixsidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square. Wrong!Zimny Mr. Z., That's the short answer; what's the long answer or is it statedadequatelyin another book I have overlooked? I understand there is extra stress atthe peak of the five strip, but what is the whole story (sorry if I amasking for too much bandwidth)? Happy Holidays, Ted G.First of all, a Quad is not a square. It is four laminated triangles orpyramids. Since the material is the same, the inherent strength of thecross section most likely depends on cross-section area, not, indeed,cross section geometry. It will agree, however, that cross sectionalgeometry probably does influence the stiffness of a rod. This, in thecase of the five sided rod, increase is bought at the expense of aconsiderable increase in the stress.In fact, the quad is the inherently "strongest" and longest lasting ofall configurations, since the geometry stresses the cane at a lowerlevel than the other configurations.Zimny from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Dec 22 16:31:06 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Seasons Greetings Zimny,How can you say I am wrtong about a 4 sided object do you know nothungofgeometry.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Dec 22 16:42:48 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Lathe Work I agree with you on buying American lathes as they are the best around from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Dec 22 16:43:07 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Lathe Work Check on South Bend Lathe works in So. Bend IN( home of the FightingIrish)their # is 219-289-7771 from mathieu@compmore.net Mon Dec 22 17:15:29 1997 SAA08685 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:15:44 "john"via SMTP by mail.compmore.net, id smtpd008679; Mon Dec 22 18:15:361997 Subject: Re: Dates for Grayrock where is Grayrock.?Robert Clarke wrote: Wayne , there is camping nearbye? I am considering making a trek from Oregon. Have a truck, and will have a canopy for it by then. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Wayne Catt Subject: Dates for GrayrockDate: Saturday, December 20, 1997 3:34 PM The Official dates for Grayrock are June 26 and 27. These aretheplannedevents - demos and talks during the day on friday - friday night hasbeenthepizza party social - but it looks as if there is interest to have aBringRoadkill To Pass potluck. Saturday more demos and talks. SaturdayeveningisTTBBBQ IV featuring the raffle of The Makers Rod.A tradition of past years has been a kick off picnic at theLoveBugs onthursday (June 25) evening. The Unofficial dates for Grayrock are June 20 - 27 - the reasonfortheextended time period is that several come from such distance theyuse thetimeas a vacation - during this extended time there is less planningthanusual -hanging out at the clubhouse - last year several made use of theworkbenchesand tools to polish rodmaking skills - I shared fishing the Jordanwith agroup - the talk this year is to spend a day and campout for anight. Ihaveteased a couple participants that they have so much fun that a notefromthespouse will be required. Wayne from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Dec 22 18:05:05 1997 Subject: Re: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Keep in contact on the gathering as it progresses. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Dec 22 18:05:57 1997 TAA25341 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 1997 19:05:59-0500 Subject: Re: Dates for Grayrock John Grayrock is a state of mind - Wayne's! Grayling is in Michigan. On Mon, 22 Dec 1997 18:19:10 -0500, John McKinnon wrote: where is Grayrock.?Robert Clarke wrote: Wayne , there is camping nearbye? I am considering making a trek from Oregon. Have a truck, and will have a canopy for it by then. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Wayne Catt Subject: Dates for GrayrockDate: Saturday, December 20, 1997 3:34 PM The Official dates for Grayrock are June 26 and 27. These aretheplannedevents - demos and talks during the day on friday - friday night hasbeenthepizza party social - but it looks as if there is interest to have aBringRoadkill To Pass potluck. Saturday more demos and talks. SaturdayeveningisTTBBBQ IV featuring the raffle of The Makers Rod.A tradition of past years has been a kick off picnic at theLoveBugs onthursday (June 25) evening. The Unofficial dates for Grayrock are June 20 - 27 - the reasonfortheextended time period is that several come from such distance theyuse thetimeas a vacation - during this extended time there is less planningthanusual -hanging out at the clubhouse - last year several made use of theworkbenchesand tools to polish rodmaking skills - I shared fishing the Jordanwith agroup - the talk this year is to spend a day and campout for anight. Ihaveteased a couple participants that they have so much fun that a notefromthespouse will be required. Wayne Regards Chris from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Dec 22 18:29:13 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Lathe Work Dick, I am lucky as I live in So. Bend and can get there in 10 minutes frommyhouse. I will be checking them out after the first of the year and will letyou know of any updates on their manual. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Dec 22 18:51:23 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings J. C. Zimny wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 11:30 PMSubject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Ed,A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerfulbecause ofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 or sixsidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square. Wrong!Zimny Mr. Z., That's the short answer; what's the long answer or is it statedadequatelyin another book I have overlooked? I understand there is extra stressatthe peak of the five strip, but what is the whole story (sorry if I amasking for too much bandwidth)? Happy Holidays, Ted G.First of all, a Quad is not a square. It is four laminated triangles orpyramids. Since the material is the same, the inherent strength of thecross section most likely depends on cross-section area, not, indeed,cross section geometry. It will agree, however, that cross sectionalgeometry probably does influence the stiffness of a rod. This, in thecase of the five sided rod, increase is bought at the expense of aconsiderable increase in the stress.In fact, the quad is the inherently "strongest" and longest lasting ofall configurations, since the geometry stresses the cane at a lowerlevel than the other configurations.Zimny John: It's been a long time since I was exposed to the theories and almost aslongsince I've used any of the exposure but I believe the moment of inertia ofthevarious composit shapes will be a large factor. George from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Dec 22 18:57:08 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings In a message dated 12/22/97 11:14:42 PM, you wrote: I would like to second what John is saying here, based on my own and BillFink's experience with building these rods. A five sided rod does come outstiffer than an equivalent 6 sider, but the stresses are higher. The onlywayaround it is to beef up the 5 side section a bit, and live with the slightlyhigher weight. Bill has been doing this and has produced some great fasttaperrods.The four strip rod will have a bit slower speed than an equivalent 6 strip,but in fact be more powerful. Let me define the terms. Speed is just that,thespeed at which the rod tip moves. Power is the ability of the rod tomaintainspeed as the load increases. It is entirely possible to have a rod thatstartsout very fast and slows down quickly, it is also possible to have a slowrodthat maintains it's speed fairly well as load increases. It's largely afunction of taper, but also a characteristic of geometry. The edges of a 4strip rod are closer to the centerline, producing the slower action. I thinkthe power reserve comes from the broad flats of the rod opposing eachotherin alternate tension and compression.Let me state clearly that the overwhelming factor is the taper. It'sentirelypossible to have a fast 4 strip, or a slow 5 strip. What I am talking abouthere is comparing rods of equivalent taper and weight from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Dec 22 20:31:42 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings - Now : quads J. C. Zimny wrote: First of all, a Quad is not a square. It is four laminated triangles orpyramids. Since the material is the same, the inherent strength of thecross section most likely depends on cross-section area, not, indeed,cross section geometry. It will agree, however, that cross sectionalgeometry probably does influence the stiffness of a rod. This, in thecase of the five sided rod, increase is bought at the expense of aconsiderable increase in the stress.In fact, the quad is the inherently "strongest" and longest lasting ofall configurations, since the geometry stresses the cane at a lowerlevel than the other configurations.Zimny John,I don't know about the "longest lasting", perhaps that is so, but Imust endorse, from casting experience, the rest of your statements. A.J.McClane in "The Practical Flyfisherman" chapter 1, goes through all themath and arrives at the same conclusion regarding 4-sided. He continues,however, by saying that "the taper is the thing", and that 4, 5, and 6sided are all successful (he doesn't like 7 sided).Best regards,ReedBTW - Mr. C turned 83 yesterday and is still working a few hours a week.He is clearing a backlog of repair work and looking forward to some newquads. from terrypaulsen@earthlink.net Mon Dec 22 20:50:29 1997 Subject: Reel plans & comments on lathe book If you are looking for plans for a basic fly reel there is an article in the January 1951 issue of Mechanix Illustrated titled "Machine Your FishingReel"starting on page 141. If you library does not have the bound volumes Ihave a copy and will copy it. It would probably not post to the web very wellthough. The Book How to Run a Lathe by the South bend Lathe Co. is an excellentstarterbook. It is the first book I got after I acquired my lathe, and it is thefirst reference I go to when I have a question. Have a merry Christmas all. sincerely Terry Paulsen from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Dec 22 21:38:15 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work Rich, Your right about the brass and nickel silver. When I first started,I could'nt find N/S so I made my ferrules and reel seats out of brass. I haven't hadanycome back with a problem. Must be ok. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Dec 22 21:40:07 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work Ted, Got your message. I'll send you a copy of my price and specsheet and a brochure. Thanks and have a MerryChristmas Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Dec 22 21:46:31 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work George, Got your message. I'll send you a price and specs sheet. Thanks and have a MerryChristmas Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Dec 22 22:00:43 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work "How to run a lathe " from South Bend IS a good book. I have one thatIgot when I picked up my South Bend 9in. tool room lathe. It came in handy. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Dec 22 22:00:45 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work John, Got your message. I'll send you a copy. Have a Merry Christmas Dave LeClair from jczimny@dol.net Mon Dec 22 22:32:47 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Zimny,How can you say I am wrtong about a 4 sided object do you know nothungofgeometry.BretHow many quads have you made? How many quads have you fished? At theendof this season, I will have made 14 quads. None have fallen apart to myknowlege.Zimny from jczimny@dol.net Mon Dec 22 22:47:49 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings George W. Barnes wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 11:30 PMSubject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Ed,A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerfulbecause ofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 or sixsidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square. Wrong!Zimny Mr. Z., That's the short answer; what's the long answer or is it statedadequatelyin another book I have overlooked? I understand there is extra stressatthe peak of the five strip, but what is the whole story (sorry if I amasking for too much bandwidth)? Happy Holidays, Ted G.First of all, a Quad is not a square. It is four laminated triangles orpyramids. Since the material is the same, the inherent strength of thecross section most likely depends on cross-section area, not, indeed,cross section geometry. It will agree, however, that cross sectionalgeometry probably does influence the stiffness of a rod. This, in thecase of the five sided rod, increase is bought at the expense of aconsiderable increase in the stress.In fact, the quad is the inherently "strongest" and longest lasting ofall configurations, since the geometry stresses the cane at a lowerlevel than the other configurations.Zimny John: It's been a long time since I was exposed to the theories and almost aslongsince I've used any of the exposure but I believe the moment of inertia ofthevarious composit shapes will be a large factor. GeorgeGeorgeDo you mean hex shape as opposed to quad? Or, do you mean a "bundle" oftriangles?But I'm not so sure of this application. We're not calculating staticstress on a beam composed of a set of triangles. A rod is a dynamiccantilever. And I'm not an engineer.But, I like quads....a lot. For a good caster, the most accurate andprecise of all rods. John from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Dec 22 23:07:31 1997 Subject: Re: Dates for Grayrock Robert -The're options - perhaps the best is Hartwick Pines State Park - acoupleof mile north of town - near the upper East Branch - I will dig upinformation- I think there is a website. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Dec 22 23:10:08 1997 Subject: Where's Grayrock ? John -'Grayrock' is a nickname of sorts for Grayling, Michigan. It's where'The Clubhouse' is. But bear in mind you are hearing this information fromafella that used to hang out in 'The Chicken Coop'. But being only 5' 7" Ididn't walk into the support beam like other list members did.'OOuucchhiitt!!!'.Now you may be wondering whether a reality check might be in orderwiththe folks that would surround themselves with this type of atmosphere - butsurprisingly the list is quite long and very talented - besides in athunderstorm it beats sleeping under a 46 willis jeep that drips oil inyourface all night long. Wayne Next time I'll define the term 'Swamp Angel' from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 23 00:02:17 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA4055 +0000 Subject: Re: Lathe Work As far as I've read in the rec.metalworking newsgroup, there are twoproblems with"Buy American" on lathes: 1) Comparing a 10" South Bend lathe to a 9" Jet -- you have $11k vs$1.2k2) After you have sent your $9.8k bonus to South Bend, you still havea machinewith most of the castings (i.e., most of the lathe) made in the Orient. I have also read in the rec.metalworking newsgroup that South Bend hasbeenhavingreplacement part castings for OLD American South Bend lathes made in theOrient.As far as I can see, you're only keeping American marketing going (unlessyou're buyinga LARGE NC-lathe @ $120k+). Buying a used American lathe WON'T help the US lathe industry (if it doesexist in smalllathes). If anyone knows of an American-made lathe (at a price not to exceed 5xtheprice of animport) please post. Anyway, that is my $0.02. George----------From: J.Cooper Subject: Re: Lathe WorkDate: Monday, December 22, 1997 4:51 AM At 10:21 20/12/97 -0500, you wrote:John, I'd think brass too soft for a ferrule. But as it is the easiestmachining stuff around(and cheap!) maybe it would be a good metal torefine your set-up and run-off a few for knick-knacks, tie-tacks, fridgemagnets, etc. They would be very handsome. My $.02. Brian Brian, Don, Carsten, etc. etc. Thank's for the input. Any idea where in the archive I might find moreinfo.? The problem with importing N/S from David LeClair is that I need somanysizes. I'd end up with a hell of a stock at considerable expense. As mostwill know, British ferrules are mostly made from brass tube. Nickelsilveris certainly better, but in fairness, I have about 100 vintage rods instock, most of which have brass ferrules that are functioning perfectly -some after the better part of 100 years of life. Just a thought on cheapo Chinese lathes: Bedamned the GAT agreement - buyanAmerican lathe. If you don't buy American lathes, you'll end up with noAmerican lathe industry. We used to make super motorcycles, but it allsays'made in Hishimoto' these days, because we ignored the threat of importsinthe early sixties. Nothing against the other nations, but if you don'tuseit, you loose it. Happy to buy American/ Commonwealth goods - these arereciprocally balanced trading partners. I admire the Chinese enormously,butI'd like to put off the inevitable moment when everything I buy issourcedvia Beijing. Oh dear - Coops on his soapbox again - sorry chaps. If anyone can suggest a source of reel drawings, I'd certainly like tohearabout it. John Cooper (England) from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Tue Dec 23 02:31:56 1997 ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 21:31:40 +1300 A Merry Christmas to all from New Zealand , Just thought I should say how much I have enjoyed listening in over muchof the year and how impressed I am with the willingness of members ofthis list to help others . I am mainly restoring old rods , but slowlyacquiring or building the gear to start making my first rod in the newyear . ( main problem is getting cane here , but Tony from the islandacross the water may be able to help , thanks Tony ). Any list members who may be heading down this way over the next year orso to experience our superb trout fishing should feel free to get intouch with me . I am always looking for an excuse to go out fishing (usually go without an excuse but excuses can be handy at times whenlawns have to be done etc ) and would welcome the opportunity to showsome of you the very good fishing in the Nelson area . Have a very good Christmas and all the best for the New Year regards Ian KearneyIan Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Dec 23 05:27:40 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA16726 for; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 11:31:09 GMT Subject: Re: Reel plans & comments on lathe book At 20:48 22/12/97 +0000, you wrote:If you are looking for plans for a basic fly reel there is an article in the January 1951 issue of Mechanix Illustrated titled "Machine Your FishingReel"starting on page 141. If you library does not have the bound volumes Ihave a copy and will copy it. It would probably not post to the web very wellthough. The Book How to Run a Lathe by the South bend Lathe Co. is an excellentstarterbook. It is the first book I got after I acquired my lathe, and it is thefirst reference I go to when I have a question. Have a merry Christmas all. sincerely Terry Paulsen Terry, The reel machining article: That's a very kind offer, and I'd very much liketo take you up on it, if it's not too much trouble. I shall certainly bemore than happy to reimburse you for copy and postage expenses. Full postal contact address: J.M.Olliff-CooperChalford ManorStoney CrossHampshireSO43 7GPEngland Thank you (and others) too for pointing me at the South Bend book. I shallsee if I can find a copy on this side of the pond, or, possibly, Powells maybe able to source one. Anyone with a spare copy for sale? I take on board all the comments about the apparent relative values ofAmerican/Chinese lathes. It's a real shame. My solution was to buy asecond-hand high quality British lathe (a Myford). It cost the same as aBeijing special, but I know at least that if something breaks, I can get aspare by return of mail. When I rang Myford to ask them about belttensionson my 20 year old lathe, they apologised for my problems! Try that withtheBeijing special suppliers. As we say hereabouts - yer pays yer money, andyer takes yer choice. Season's greetings to you all from Merrie England (high-stepping horsesdrawing a Dickensian carriage through a cosy snow-decked village: pikeanglers in stovepipe hats; roast chestnut sellers in the shadow of Big Ben,etc., etc.) JC. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 23 08:36:13 1997 Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:35:49 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Lathe Work John,This may have already been answered, I'm just wading through email. On Sat, 20 Dec 1997, J.Cooper wrote: I'd like to try to make some ferrules. I seem to remember that there wasathread about this some months ago. Can someone point me in the rightdirection? Nickel-silver tube is all but unobtainable here, but I may beable to get some brass tube. Plan b: I can turn from solid - although I'mfinding it difficult to cut SERIOUSLY parallel holes: I guess that isfundamental in ferrule manufacture. You can turn ferrules from rod, though it's trickyer than tube (I think, I cant easily get tube here either)If you're having trouble with the holes, you may not be starting the hole with a center drill before boring it with a bit. Once the hole is drilled, finished using a reamer.If you want to see how I make mine I have a mention of it in my home page.If you do make them from rod I'd be interested in how you make yours so I can improve what I'm doing. Project 2: I'd like to make a reel, perhaps something for a DT#3, andreallylight in weight. Does anyone have a set of drawing for such a damsel? Again, let me know how you go. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Tue Dec 23 08:43:34 1997Received: from (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 23 Dec 1997 09:42:59 -0500 Subject: Silk Lines Questions I while back we had some discussion on silk fly lines and I have had thebug since. I have started to braid my own, though I am still very earlyinto experimenting. I've have a few questions you might be able to helpme with or point me in the direction of some answers... 1) Finishing. Linseed oil and talc fills the braid very well, but Iknow that the line was traditionally varnished. Any ideas on whatvarnish to use or formulation to make my own. 2) I'm going rather blindly at tapers and would love to get somemeasurements from existing lines. If anyone would be willing to takethe time to measure a line or two, I would be indebted. (I wouldcertianly compile all gathered information and share with others...) Iwould like to get diameters every foot but will willingly accept every 3feet to make this a more reasonable task. Notes on casting qualitieswould also be appreciated. I'm not looking to copy existing lines, butto gather some baseline infomation. I'm still a ways of from getting things the way I want them, but thingsare going far better that I expected. I not looking to gear up forcommercial prodution, but would like to produce some for barter, etc. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 23 08:44:16 1997 Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:44:01 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Lathe Work John, Just a thought on cheapo Chinese lathes: Bedamned the GAT agreement -buy anAmerican lathe. If you don't buy American lathes, you'll end up with noAmerican lathe industry. We used to make super motorcycles, but it allsays'made in Hishimoto' these days, because we ignored the threat of importsinthe early sixties. Nothing against the other nations, but if you don't useit, you loose it. Happy to buy American/ Commonwealth goods - these arereciprocally balanced trading partners. I admire the Chinese enormously,butI'd like to put off the inevitable moment when everything I buy issourcedvia Beijing. Oh dear - Coops on his soapbox again - sorry chaps. I have to agree here. Australia had a good thing going for a while when it came to lathes, cars, fridges etc. The crunch is just around the corner for everybody who dosn't support the local industry. I could buy a Chineese lathe that would handle 3 times the size of the work of my Sherline, but the Sherline is miles ahead in quality and parts should be available for some time to come.I do need a larger lathe now just as Dave LeClair said I would but I wonder if the Chinees lathe would be accurate enough to turn ferrules from rod? Maybe, but I knew the US one would. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 23 08:52:05 1997 Tue, 23 Dec 1997 22:51:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Midwraps On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I'm thinking ahead to the finish work and would like to know if any ofyou put midwraps on your rods and if so how do you feel about whethermidwraps affect the action of the rod. I assume more finish will collect around each midwrap, and add some weight. If I place midwraps the spacing will be about 1" apart in the butt andmid and closer in the tips as the guide spacing shortens. I will use 3 to 4 turns of 3/0 silk, and will use minimal color preserver and a thin coat of finish, dipped. Do any of you have experience with a similar layout, and do you feel it does or does not have any significant affect on the rod action? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu I've had minimal experience with this but I just finished a Pape made pre WWII in England. It has over 200 intermediates. I cast it after I took them all off prior to re-finishing and again today now the intermediates have been replaced and the varnish has dried.I used 2 coats of Gudebrod preserver then two coats of PU before dipping.The preserver was just insurance as I had difficulty with the concept of taking all those !@#$% intermediates off and replacing in the event of bleed through. The PU prob would have been OK alone [please chime in here if this isn't so].I found that the action was a bit tighter with the intermediates on. Even though it prob was slower in action due to the extra weight, the action was better, marginaly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 23 09:28:52 1997 Tue, 23 Dec 1997 23:28:42 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Reel plans & comments on lathe book Season's greetings to you all from Merrie England (high-stepping horsesdrawing a Dickensian carriage through a cosy snow-decked village: pikeanglers in stovepipe hats; roast chestnut sellers in the shadow of BigBen,etc., etc.) JC. Sounds a bit cold. Better here where we have a barbaque around the pool drinking some brews, nibling prawns hot off the barbi and wondering what the hell all this snow business is all about? There were quite a few people who emailed and said how much they liked that little Banjo Paterson poem, glad you liked it.I'd have responded sooner but I went on a boat ride for a few days.It was suposed to be on a friends motor boat but it had engine trouble so we took my sail boat instaed.A few points I'll try and remember.1) Fly fishing is tricky if done from the cockpit of a moving sloop.2) Practice manoeuvres before a fish eats the fly. I took a new Scientific Anglers #12 WF out of the box and using spiderwire for backing wound this line on the reel.Without actually casting the line ever I trailed it from the boat to take any loops out as well as just trying my luck. A significant fish, species unknown took the fly and made for Africa, quickly.I called for the boys with me to back the jib against the Main and the best reply I got was "back it against the main what?"We finaly hove to using a little used manoeuvre involving sighting all 360 degrees of the compass while I kind of ducked under things and moved around the deck, Lefty Kreigh (sp?)it was not. It finaly came to the point of having to do something as the backing was running out, so I put on the brakes hard and everything started making funny noises then nothing. 3) If using spiderwire for backing and you expect big fish, consider not using spider wire for backing. The tippet was 20lb, flyline breaks at about 30lb and this spider wire was rated at 60lb. Trouble is it cuts through fly line realy well somewhere under 20lb strain, so if you come across a fish with a flyline tag, it's mine. 4) If fishing off shore make sure the people you fish with don't mind staying in the tender if sea sick. I had a hell of a job convincing one of my friends the best place to be when sea sick is the tender (for the owner) ;-), but only if a shady tree isn't available.Actually the water is the best place if sea sick, but he didn't want to risk shark attack. Have a merry Christmas /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 23 09:50:23 1997 Tue, 23 Dec 1997 23:49:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) On Wed, 17 Dec 1997, Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly I also found it puzzling that Garrison was so far off with his heattreatingprocedure. It makes me wonder if there isn't another factor messing upthe heat treatment temps and times. Take for instance a few peopleposted that they heat treat for one hour at 375 F. I put a couple stripsin my kitchen oven at 375, and in 30 min. it set off the smoke detectorand I had charcoal. Thinking that the temp of the oven was off I put athermometer in, set it at 375, and the thermometer read 350. On theother hand, when I held a temperature probe (borrowed from a lab whereI used to work) on the enamel side and heatgunned the pith side of aculm the temp read 400 F. There is no discernable color change of theoutside of the culm when I do this. In this case this could be explained hourwhen I get curled up scorched pieces of cane in 30 minutes? Darryl Hayashida .02 worth: I believe it was on the List that it was said that oven tempscan peak considerably higher than that read (at any time) on athermometer,thus cause over heating and perhaps in your experience, ignition. Heat treating is an iteresting subject with seemingly very contradictorycommentary. I have gradually come to a not very interesting conclusionthatfirst rate Tonkin may not be noticeably improved with heat, but "class B"materialis good candidate for improvement with treatment. Ted G. This certainly is a vexing question, however I wonder if there is as much difference made in the finished product as we may think.Given my oven either has a faulty thermestat or no insulation thus allowing me to heat cane for over 30mins at 200 centigrade, this brings me back to a point I've made before. Using your own oven it's prob best to start at a low temp and build up until you reach the action in the rod and colour you like.I've found that beyond a certain point, heating dosn't seem to make a difference to the action of the rod but only darkens the cane.This seems to be what Tom Fulk in the latest PF has found.I'm sure you've all read this article and it agrees exactly with what I've found and as Tom says, once you've found what you like consistancy (in your oven) is what counts. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Dec 23 11:18:47 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work RO>As far as I've read in the rec.metalworking newsgroup, there are twoRO>problems withRO>"Buy American" on lathes: RO>If anyone knows of an American-made lathe (at a price not to exceed5x theRO>price of anRO>import) please post. Anyway, that is my $0.02. RO>George George and all, I always look at the country of origin labels on products and try to buyhome- brew. Trying to buy a totally USA-made "anything" is quite hardthese days. I don't have 5 acres (I've got a bit more than the std. CA lot size of5,000 sq. ft!), can't build out-buildings (code and C.C.&R's), nobasement (very rare in Calif.), the wife won't allow me to buildworkshop in the family room and can't get 3 phase power to the house. So I'm soon to be off to buy a lathe from China - the only one thatweights under 100 lb, will fit on a storage shelf in the garage when notin use, runs off 115VAC single phase power and costs ~$350 new. Spareparts worry me too. But if I use it 2 twice a month I hope to be able toget 5 years use out of it. Besides I could almost replace it completely I don't think I'm taking jobs away from American workers, in this case -I don't think any one makes a competitive unit over here unless there'sa lathe conversion kit somewhere for a Black & Decker drill (OBTW, nolonger made in the USA). Or a Moto-tool attachment? While it's true that my father's name is George Burns - he just aretired machinery repair auto worker and I'm not about to inherit agazillion bucks. OBTW, I do get hear the UAW party line every time Ispeak to him and he thinks the lathe is a good buy. So I'm very sorry ifI started/continued this thread by asking for help in deciding if thislittle Chinese lathe could do the work. I'd love to own a South Bendlathe, FoMoCo Lincoln Mark VIII, a Gillum fly rod and many other toysthat I can't ever afford. Gillum donations accepted any time of theyear - doesn't even have to go under the Christmas tree. My final post regarding this thread. Merry Christmas to all, Don from flyfisher@rhco.com Tue Dec 23 11:37:17 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Lathe Work Bonnie Klein, from Washington state, has a lathe designed for turningsmall wood working, although I can't really say whether it's actuallybuilt in the U.S. or not. I don't own one but have talked with her andknow of another builder that uses one with nothing but great things tosay about it! I think her price is under $500 (U.S.) for the entirething, which is on a moveable platform and, weighing much less than 100pounds, takes up minimal space when not in use. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: flyfisher@cmix.com [SMTP:flyfisher@cmix.com]Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Lathe Work RO>If anyone knows of an American-made lathe (at a price not to exceed5x theRO>price of anRO>import) please post. Anyway, that is my $0.02. RO>George George and all, I always look at the country of origin labels on products and try tobuyhome- brew. Trying to buy a totally USA-made "anything" is quite hardthese days. So I'm soon to be off to buy a lathe from China - the only one thatweights under 100 lb, will fit on a storage shelf in the garage whennotin use, runs off 115VAC single phase power and costs ~$350 new. from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Tue Dec 23 14:50:28 1997 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 23 Dec 1997 15:49:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe Work Bonnie Klien's wood lathe is based on parts from the Taig metal lathe(US made, I think in Texas). Taig can be had basis arount $200 w/omotor. More as you add finishing touches and accessories. A nice,basic, "jeweler's" lathe. Sherline costs a bit more, (not much when youfactor in a motor and the fact that Sherline is variable speed DC!) andcan be had in a long bed version. Both are compact lathes and wouldprobably do all work for for rod making... There US made and partswould be no problem in the future. I'll probably buy a Sherline in thenear future. (BTW: I almost bought the 'Smithy' Chinese made Lthe/Milland would still consider it. I didn't becuase I descided it wasoverkill (I do do gunsmithing, but not enough) and did not want to facefinancing it...) My friend has just ordered a small Chinese lathe and I will see it overthe Holidays. He is pleased... Thoman, Brian wrote: Bonnie Klein, from Washington state, has a lathe designed for turningsmall wood working, although I can't really say whether it's actuallybuilt in the U.S. or not. I don't own one but have talked with her andknow of another builder that uses one with nothing but great things tosay about it! I think her price is under $500 (U.S.) for the entirething, which is on a moveable platform and, weighing much less than 100pounds, takes up minimal space when not in use. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: flyfisher@cmix.com [SMTP:flyfisher@cmix.com]Sent: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 9:47 AM Subject: Re: Lathe Work RO>If anyone knows of an American-made lathe (at a price not toexceed5x theRO>price of anRO>import) please post. Anyway, that is my $0.02. RO>George George and all, I always look at the country of origin labels on products and try tobuyhome- brew. Trying to buy a totally USA-made "anything" is quite hardthese days. So I'm soon to be off to buy a lathe from China - the only one thatweights under 100 lb, will fit on a storage shelf in the garage whennotin use, runs off 115VAC single phase power and costs ~$350 new. from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Dec 23 16:38:58 1997 Subject: Re: Silk Lines Questions John A. Whitaker wrote: I while back we had some discussion on silk fly lines and I have had thebug since. I have started to braid my own, though I am still very earlyinto experimenting. I've have a few questions you might be able to helpme with or point me in the direction of some answers... 1) Finishing. Linseed oil and talc fills the braid very well, but Iknow that the line was traditionally varnished. Any ideas on whatvarnish to use or formulation to make my own. 2) I'm going rather blindly at tapers and would love to get somemeasurements from existing lines. If anyone would be willing to takethe time to measure a line or two, I would be indebted. (I wouldcertianly compile all gathered information and share with others...) Iwould like to get diameters every foot but will willingly accept every 3feet to make this a more reasonable task. Notes on casting qualitieswould also be appreciated. I'm not looking to copy existing lines, butto gather some baseline infomation. I'm still a ways of from getting things the way I want them, but thingsare going far better that I expected. I not looking to gear up forcommercial prodution, but would like to produce some for barter, etc.John,Wow, I'm impressed. I will get one of the formulas for the originaldressing of lines, I think I can recall the source. Also, I have tapers all online, so just give me one line diameter (HEH, HCH, etc.). It isnot necessary to give diameters every foot, the tapers are straight.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Dec 23 16:42:12 1997 Subject: Re: Midwraps Tony Young wrote: I've had minimal experience with this but I just finished a Pape made preWWII in England. It has over 200 intermediates. I cast it after I tookthem all off prior to re-finishing and again today now theintermediates have been replaced and the varnish has dried.I used 2 coats of Gudebrod preserver then two coats of PU before dipping.The preserver was just insurance as I had difficulty with the concept oftaking all those !@#$% intermediates off and replacing in the event ofbleed through. The PU prob would have been OK alone [please chime inhereif this isn't so].I found that the action was a bit tighter with the intermediates on. Eventhough it prob was slower in action due to the extra weight, the actionwas better, marginaly. Tony Tony,I think you are right, I have experienced the same thing. Also, "TheFine Art of Fishing" by S. Camp has recommendations on improving thestiffness of the rod by increasing number or size of intermediates.Merry Christmas and Happy Boxing Day,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Dec 23 16:53:45 1997 Subject: Parabolic Rods Listmembers,I would appreciate some feedback on the various "parabolic" tapers. Ilike a rod that will flex into the grip when casting, yet is not so tipheavy that it feels clubby. Some of the Dickerson tapers fit the bill.Does anyone have experience with the tapers developed by John AldenKnight for/with Payne? Any other, besides Pezon, come to mind?Thanks,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Dec 23 17:37:14 1997 SAA11253 for ; Tue, 23 Dec 1997 18:37:11-0500 Subject: Re: Silk Lines Questions John I have some very nice silk lines that I got from Reed in trade that I would love to see if you could duplicate. the orginal mfrs arelong gone - I would even send you the line to take your measurements. Chris On Tue, 23 Dec 1997 17:38:37 -0500, Reed F. Curry wrote: John A. Whitaker wrote: I while back we had some discussion on silk fly lines and I have had thebug since. I have started to braid my own, though I am still very earlyinto experimenting. I've have a few questions you might be able to helpme with or point me in the direction of some answers... 1) Finishing. Linseed oil and talc fills the braid very well, but Iknow that the line was traditionally varnished. Any ideas on whatvarnish to use or formulation to make my own. 2) I'm going rather blindly at tapers and would love to get somemeasurements from existing lines. If anyone would be willing to takethe time to measure a line or two, I would be indebted. (I wouldcertianly compile all gathered information and share with others...) Iwould like to get diameters every foot but will willingly accept every 3feet to make this a more reasonable task. Notes on casting qualitieswould also be appreciated. I'm not looking to copy existing lines, butto gather some baseline infomation. I'm still a ways of from getting things the way I want them, but thingsare going far better that I expected. I not looking to gear up forcommercial prodution, but would like to produce some for barter, etc.John,Wow, I'm impressed. I will get one of the formulas for the originaldressing of lines, I think I can recall the source. Also, I have tapers all online, so just give me one line diameter (HEH, HCH, etc.). It isnot necessary to give diameters every foot, the tapers are straight.Best regards,Reed Regards Chris from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Dec 23 17:39:39 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work RO>Bonnie Klien's wood lathe is based on parts from the Taig metal latheRO>(US made, I think in Texas). Taig can be had basis arount $200 w/oRO>motor. More as you add finishing touches and accessories. A nice,RO>basic, "jeweler's" lathe. Sherline costs a bit more, (not much when youRO>factor in a motor and the fact that Sherline is variable speed DC!) andRO>can be had in a long bed version. Both are compact lathes and wouldRO>probably do all work for for rod making... There US made and partsRO>would be no problem in the future. I'll probably buy a Sherline in theRO>near future. (BTW: I almost bought the 'Smithy' Chinese made Lthe/MillRO>and would still consider it. I didn't becuase I descided it wasRO>overkill (I do do gunsmithing, but not enough) and did not want to faceRO>financing it...) RO>My friend has just ordered a small Chinese lathe and I will see it overRO>the Holidays. He is pleased... Well, I'm eating my earlier words and I'm posting an url where theHarbor Freight 7 x 10 metal lathe was reviewed:http://www.pioneer.net/~felice/hf.html Ta, Don Burns from jczimny@dol.net Tue Dec 23 17:52:47 1997 Subject: Re: Parabolic Rods Reed F. Curry wrote: Listmembers,I would appreciate some feedback on the various "parabolic" tapers.Ilike a rod that will flex into the grip when casting, yet is not so tipheavy that it feels clubby. Some of the Dickerson tapers fit the bill.Does anyone have experience with the tapers developed by John AldenKnight for/with Payne? Any other, besides Pezon, come to mind?Thanks,ReedThose para tapers that Payne developed in the mid to late 30's werewondrous.John from lblan@provide.net Tue Dec 23 18:03:36 1997 Subject: Re: Where's Grayrock ? I think I still have a lump or two from that *&^%~& beam. The memoriesofthe Cop came flooding back when I read the post. I heard rumors that therewas a good time or two to be had there. Best wishes to the list for the holiday season Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Where's Grayrock ? John -'Grayrock' is a nickname of sorts for Grayling, Michigan. It's where'The Clubhouse' is. But bear in mind you are hearing this information fromafella that used to hang out in 'The Chicken Coop'. But being only 5' 7" Ididn't walk into the support beam like other list members did.'OOuucchhiitt!!!'.Now you may be wondering whether a reality check might be in orderwiththe folks that would surround themselves with this type of atmosphere - butsurprisingly the list is quite long and very talented - besides in athunderstorm it beats sleeping under a 46 willis jeep that drips oil inyourface all night long. Wayne Next time I'll define the term 'Swamp Angel' from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 23 18:41:45 1997 Wed, 24 Dec 1997 08:41:37 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Parabolic Rods On Tue, 23 Dec 1997, Reed F. Curry wrote: Listmembers,I would appreciate some feedback on the various "parabolic" tapers. Ilike a rod that will flex into the grip when casting, yet is not so tipheavy that it feels clubby. Some of the Dickerson tapers fit the bill.Does anyone have experience with the tapers developed by John AldenKnight for/with Payne? Any other, besides Pezon, come to mind?Thanks,Reed Reed,try any of the Paul Young tapers or Wayne's 8' rods in his book. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Htollvr@aol.com Tue Dec 23 19:20:37 1997 Subject: how do we use this? We just subscribed to Rodmakers and don't understand how it works orexactlywhat it is. Is this a discussion group? Are all messages automaticallydownloaded to our e-mail? If we want to post a question, do we just posttothis address? Can you please send some instructions. It would be mostappreciated. Thanks! from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Dec 23 19:48:08 1997 Subject: Re: how do we use this? Htollvr wrote: We just subscribed to Rodmakers and don't understand how it works orexactlywhat it is. Is this a discussion group? Are all messages automaticallydownloaded to our e-mail? If we want to post a question, do we justpost tothis address? Can you please send some instructions. It would be mostappreciated. Thanks! You have just effectively used the list. Your question is of the easyand non technical variety and therefore I (being a new builder anderstwhile seeker of rodbuilding knowledge) am qualified to answer it. There are no instructions, per se. There are questions posted andanswered, sometimes to the list and sometimes privately. The list dealsmainly with cane rods and the problems or techniques peculiar to theirconstruction. There are archives and other areas of interest at: Welcome aboard and enjoy. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Dec 23 20:00:43 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work With all the talk of lathes (still waiting to get one), I found SouthBend's web page at: http://www.Southbendlathecorp.com Not tons of info there, but it might be useful. Maybe folks can order thatbook directly. Robert Clarke( owner of some S Bend rods)rclarke@eou.edu ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Re: Lathe WorkDate: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 1:08 PM RO>Bonnie Klien's wood lathe is based on parts from the Taig metal latheRO>(US made, I think in Texas). Taig can be had basis arount $200 w/oRO>motor. More as you add finishing touches and accessories. A nice,RO>basic, "jeweler's" lathe. Sherline costs a bit more, (not much whenyouRO>factor in a motor and the fact that Sherline is variable speed DC!)andRO>can be had in a long bed version. Both are compact lathes and wouldRO>probably do all work for for rod making... There US made and partsRO>would be no problem in the future. I'll probably buy a Sherline intheRO>near future. (BTW: I almost bought the 'Smithy' Chinese madeLthe/MillRO>and would still consider it. I didn't becuase I descided it wasRO>overkill (I do do gunsmithing, but not enough) and did not want tofaceRO>financing it...) RO>My friend has just ordered a small Chinese lathe and I will see itoverRO>the Holidays. He is pleased... Well, I'm eating my earlier words and I'm posting an url where theHarbor Freight 7 x 10 metal lathe was reviewed:http://www.pioneer.net/~felice/hf.html Ta, Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Dec 23 20:30:34 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Lathe Work I live in So. Bend and I will check with lathe works to see aboutaccessability of book and will report to everyone as to teh availability. from fquinchat@locl.net Tue Dec 23 20:55:42 1997 (8.7.4/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA22856 for ; Subject: Re: Reel plans & comments on lathe book Terry, I would also like a copy of the reel plans. Dennis Bertram1365 N 160 WAngola, IN 46703 Thanks and let me know your costs for copies and mailing. ----------From: Terry Paulsen Subject: Reel plans & comments on lathe bookDate: Monday, December 22, 1997 3:48 PM If you are looking for plans for a basic fly reel there is an article inthe January 1951 issue of Mechanix Illustrated titled "Machine Your FishingReel"starting on page 141. If you library does not have the bound volumes Ihave a copy and will copy it. It would probably not post to the web very wellthough. The Book How to Run a Lathe by the South bend Lathe Co. is an excellentstarterbook. It is the first book I got after I acquired my lathe, and it is thefirst reference I go to when I have a question. Have a merry Christmas all. sincerely Terry Paulsen from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Dec 23 21:09:17 1997 Subject: RE:how do we use this? RO>We just subscribed to Rodmakers and don't understand how it works orexactlyRO>what it is. Is this a discussion group? Are all messages automaticallyRO>downloaded to our e-mail? If we want to post a question, do we justpost toRO>this address? Can you please send some instructions. It would be mostRO>appreciated. Thanks! Hi new member, It's just like life, by the time you figure out how - it's too darnlate. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com PS -it would help to know who you are. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Dec 23 21:24:54 1997 Subject: Re: Where's Grayrock ? Wayne,Can't wait for the definition !Hank. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Dec 23 23:25:53 1997 Subject: Lathe work Anyone, Please advise: I recently purchased a JET GHB - 1340 lathe. Myexperiencewith lathes in general is rather narrow since my previous lathe was a1942Sheldon. I am satisfied (mostly) with the JET right now, but what aboutthe long term - how soon to replace head bearing etc? Incidently, somedaysI use the lathe quite a lot including hogging 4" dia. aluminum block. Holiday wishes to all, Ted G. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 24 00:08:40 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA14504 +0000 Subject: Re: Lathe Work Hey Dave, In browsing the web, I've found 4 different nickel silvers. One is 10% Ni,one is 12% Ni, one is 18% Ni, and the lastis 25% Ni. You sell nickel silver tubing, which type? How does a tubingwith higher or lower nickel content comparewith the one you sell? Thanks,George Bourke BTW--Haven't had time to call you (with the time difference) concerningthesnake guide maker, so I am mailing anorder to you tomorrow. ----------From: LECLAIR123 Subject: Re: Lathe WorkDate: Monday, December 22, 1997 7:31 PM Rich, Your right about the brass and nickel silver. When I firststarted,I could'nt find N/S so I made my ferrules and reel seats out of brass. I haven't hadanycome back with a problem. Must be ok. Dave LeClair from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 24 00:13:13 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA16743 +0000 Subject: Re: Silk Lines Questions Wow, what is required to braid your own fly line? (Just curious, notlooking George Bourke ----------From: John A. Whitaker Subject: Silk Lines QuestionsDate: Tuesday, December 23, 1997 9:52 AM I while back we had some discussion on silk fly lines and I have had thebug since. I have started to braid my own, though I am still very earlyinto experimenting. I've have a few questions you might be able to helpme with or point me in the direction of some answers... 1) Finishing. Linseed oil and talc fills the braid very well, but Iknow that the line was traditionally varnished. Any ideas on whatvarnish to use or formulation to make my own. 2) I'm going rather blindly at tapers and would love to get somemeasurements from existing lines. If anyone would be willing to takethe time to measure a line or two, I would be indebted. (I wouldcertianly compile all gathered information and share with others...) Iwould like to get diameters every foot but will willingly accept every 3feet to make this a more reasonable task. Notes on casting qualitieswould also be appreciated. I'm not looking to copy existing lines, butto gather some baseline infomation. I'm still a ways of from getting things the way I want them, but thingsare going far better that I expected. I not looking to gear up forcommercial prodution, but would like to produce some for barter, etc. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Dec 24 00:26:31 1997 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA28617 +0000 Subject: Re: Lathe Work Pretty typical of what I've heard on rec.crafts.metalworking. A lot ofpeople there are sayingthat the choice is to buy a used American lathe and tweak it until it isaccurate again or buy an import(viewing it as an "assembled kit") and tweak it until you get the accuracyyou need. The big difference(they say) is that the import is new so there is no bed wear and noexpensive bed regrinding. George Bourke---------- Well, I'm eating my earlier words and I'm posting an url where theHarbor Freight 7 x 10 metal lathe was reviewed:http://www.pioneer.net/~felice/hf.html Ta, Don Burns from SealRite@aol.com Wed Dec 24 07:21:41 1997 Subject: Re: Heat Treating (Was: Bleached Blonde?) If you didn't, try pre-heating the oven first & allow it to stabilize, thenput the bamboo on a cookie sheet or aluminum foil. Craig from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Dec 24 07:57:14 1997 +0100 (CET) ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:54:14 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Season Greetings ----------This is it. In two hours the guests will arrive, and the big X-mas dinner,gift unwrapping and general turbulence will start. Wife is doing all kindsof wonderous things and stuff in the kitchen, children being overexicited.Its is time to do something relaxing, which is why I have fled to thecomputer. Aah, the sooothing sound from the PC`s cooling fan is relaxing. Now is thetime to wish All Listmembers a Merry Christmas and a Rodbuilding NewYear.Thanks to all of You who has contributed to make the List entertaining andeducating, Your good advice and, sometimes, weird sence of humour. (Stillcan't figure out the Grit thing, must be something wrong in my upbringing). Gotta go now, wife demanding my presence in the kitchen. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Dec 24 08:08:30 1997 0500 Subject: Camping at Grayrock Robert et. al - I camped at Whispering Pines (Frank Love's place on the Manistee).There was an opening nite cookout here, and the river is right belowyou. But the drive in to town was too long, and the facilities were abit too rustic for my taste. They'd be great if you were just there tofish, but to get cleaned-up for polite society they left a little to bedesired. I'm going to camp at Hartwick Pines this year. Maybe if thereare enough people camping we could try to reserve a group of sites? Anytakers? Brian from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Dec 24 08:18:52 1997 Subject: Best of the Season To all, Some of us @ the conclusion of a year, assess where we are and where wewant to be in the years ahead. Here's what I hope for us all, * no opens seams on the joints* straight blanks from the binder* quality cane from our suppliers* time to fish our creations* a heat treatment that's provable* hope for those folks that have lost their way and are building rods withfew strips than 6* time to read and understand the help that's offered on this list* an opportunity to meet the folks here someday* the trait never to be satisfied with "its good enough" All the best, Don Andersen from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Dec 24 08:19:14 1997 0500 Subject: Re: Lathe Work If brass is traditional (and I understand tradition is rather admired inyour country), use brass. What type of brass is used in traditionalBritish rod jewelry? Has it been drawn to increase it's strength andhardness? I've been talking to some folks from the copper trade association aboutwhat type of bronze would share the most characteristics with 18% nicklesilver, but have the color of naval bronze. I'm ordering someliterature right after the holidays, and will post anything I learn(since I'm clueless now, about anything would qualify!). They have aweb page, but I have it bookmarked at work, not home. I'll post it whenI find it. Brian "I didn't know that this "hobby" was going to consume my life"Creek from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 24 08:20:57 1997 JAA18198 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:21:00-0500 Subject: Re: Camping at Grayrock Brian But Frank's place has that "Michigan Charm" that we allhear about. Not to mention Frank (aka Love Bug) himself. Someof us can relate to him. But for those "civilized" ones out there Harwick Pines is an excellent camground with near new facilities - Much better thanpar for the course. I stayed there for the 1st Gathering. ChrisOn Wed, 24 Dec 1997 09:06:08 -0500, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Robert et. al - I camped at Whispering Pines (Frank Love's place on the Manistee).There was an opening nite cookout here, and the river is right belowyou. But the drive in to town was too long, and the facilities were abit too rustic for my taste. They'd be great if you were just there tofish, but to get cleaned-up for polite society they left a little to bedesired. I'm going to camp at Hartwick Pines this year. Maybe if thereare enough people camping we could try to reserve a group of sites? Anytakers? Brian Regards Chris from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Dec 24 08:38:23 1997 0500 Subject: Re: Season Greetings Merry Christmas, everyone! May your stockings be full, your mood bemerry, your food be plentiful (and plenty good), and your relatives staybe mercifully short. Brian from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 24 09:50:34 1997 Subject: Re: Camping at Grayrock RO>Brian RO> But Frank's place has that "Michigan Charm" that we allRO>hear about. Not to mention Frank (aka Love Bug) himself. SomeRO>of us can relate to him. RO> But for those "civilized" ones out there Harwick Pines isRO>an excellent camground with near new facilities - Much better thanRO>par for the course. I stayed there for the 1st Gathering. RO> Chris Wayne, Is there any motels in the area for those of us that must travel light?(no camping gear) Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 24 13:31:25 1997 OAA22343 for ; Wed, 24 Dec 1997 14:31:27-0500 Subject: Re: Camping at Grayrock DonThe Aquarama is the motel of choice for the gathering. Just upthe street - clean - reasonable and breakfast. I have been staying therethe last two years and have no complaints. Chris On Wed, 24 Dec 1997 07:19:02 -0600, flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Brian RO> But Frank's place has that "Michigan Charm" that we allRO>hear about. Not to mention Frank (aka Love Bug) himself. SomeRO>of us can relate to him. RO> But for those "civilized" ones out there Harwick Pines isRO>an excellent camground with near new facilities - Much better thanRO>par for the course. I stayed there for the 1st Gathering. RO> Chris Wayne, Is there any motels in the area for those of us that must travel light?(no camping gear) Don Burns from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Dec 24 13:36:15 1997 Subject: Re: Camping at Grayrock I am only tentative at this point, but if I go, I would be interested incamping as a group. I am more interested in fishing than in theammenities(sp?), so perhaps the more rustic campground would work better for me. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Brian & Michelle Creek Subject: Camping at GrayrockDate: Wednesday, December 24, 1997 6:06 AM Robert et. al - I camped at Whispering Pines (Frank Love's place on the Manistee).There was an opening nite cookout here, and the river is right belowyou. But the drive in to town was too long, and the facilities were abit too rustic for my taste. They'd be great if you were just there tofish, but to get cleaned-up for polite society they left a little to bedesired. I'm going to camp at Hartwick Pines this year. Maybe if thereare enough people camping we could try to reserve a group of sites? Anytakers? Brian from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Dec 24 14:40:13 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: If brass is traditional (and I understand tradition is rather admired inyour country), use brass. What type of brass is used in traditionalBritish rod jewelry? Has it been drawn to increase it's strength andhardness? I've been talking to some folks from the copper trade association aboutwhat type of bronze would share the most characteristics with 18%nicklesilver, but have the color of naval bronze. I'm ordering someliterature right after the holidays, and will post anything I learn(since I'm clueless now, about anything would qualify!). They have aweb page, but I have it bookmarked at work, not home. I'll post it whenI find it. Brian "I didn't know that this "hobby" was going to consume my life"CreekBrian,Some of the books go over a limited subset of the options available(brass, aluminum, beryllium bronze, etc.) but always come back to NS. I don't recall anyone trying silicon bronze. It is exceptionallystrong, good M.E., somewhat self-lubricating, etc. (It looks great,too.) Do we have anyone on list that has made ferrules from thismaterial? Oh, it is also readily available as tubing.Best regards,Reed from nicksco@fia.net Wed Dec 24 15:26:13 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28961 for Subject: Thanks I wish to thank the whole list for what I have learned over the pastfew months, it has been very enlightening! I also wish everyone a veryhappy holiday season. C. O. Nicks from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 24 15:30:17 1997 Thu, 25 Dec 1997 05:30:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Lathe Work Some of the books go over a limited subset of the options available(brass, aluminum, beryllium bronze, etc.) but always come back to NS. I don't recall anyone trying silicon bronze. It is exceptionallystrong, good M.E., somewhat self-lubricating, etc. (It looks great,too.) Do we have anyone on list that has made ferrules from thismaterial? Oh, it is also readily available as tubing.Best regards,Reed I've used phosphur bronze from some 19mm rod left over from keel bolts which worked ok once turned down. As a ferrule it works just like NS and was better to turn but harder to drill. Sure looks nice.You should be able to get 9.5mm rod in the US, 19mm is the smallest I can get without a special order otherwise I'd use it for all my ferrules.Try it or silicon bronze (I think much harder to work?) if you can find it.The bronze also made supurb reel seats but you need a lathe with some grunt to drill and bore it which is why I'm now looking at buying a biger lathe, something for anybody looking at lathes to keep in mind whenconsidering future uses for one. I tried using copper rod for ferrules when I started making ferrules as I had a fair bit laying around, turns great, drills well but as you'd expect becomes loose very quickly, then of course there's the corosion too. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Dec 24 15:35:59 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings J. C. Zimny wrote: George W. Barnes wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 11:30 PMSubject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Ed,A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerfulbecause ofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 or sixsidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square. Wrong!Zimny Mr. Z., That's the short answer; what's the long answer or is it statedadequatelyin another book I have overlooked? I understand there is extrastress atthe peak of the five strip, but what is the whole story (sorry if I amasking for too much bandwidth)? Happy Holidays, Ted G.First of all, a Quad is not a square. It is four laminated triangles orpyramids. Since the material is the same, the inherent strength of thecross section most likely depends on cross-section area, not, indeed,cross section geometry. It will agree, however, that cross sectionalgeometry probably does influence the stiffness of a rod. This, in thecase of the five sided rod, increase is bought at the expense of aconsiderable increase in the stress.In fact, the quad is the inherently "strongest" and longest lasting ofall configurations, since the geometry stresses the cane at a lowerlevel than the other configurations.Zimny John: It's been a long time since I was exposed to the theories and almost aslongsince I've used any of the exposure but I believe the moment of inertiaof thevarious composit shapes will be a large factor. GeorgeGeorgeDo you mean hex shape as opposed to quad? Or, do you mean a "bundle" oftriangles?But I'm not so sure of this application. We're not calculating staticstress on a beam composed of a set of triangles. A rod is a dynamiccantilever. And I'm not an engineer.But, I like quads....a lot. For a good caster, the most accurate andprecise of all rods.John John:First I've never subscribed to the theory that a fly rod is a cantilever,theapproach taken by Garrison. It is though a means to an end.Regardless of what it ends up being when in use, moments are generated.All I was pointing out is that the moment of inertia of the cross section,be itsquare, round, solid, hollow, hex or pentagon, that moment of inertia hastodetrermine the stress generated.I've not made too many four siders but agree with what both you and Tomsaid. My lastone also has become a favorite rod, perhaps lucky is a better word. Caughtits limitof 14" and 16" native brookies in about twenty minutes last spring.George from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed Dec 24 16:27:38 1997 Subject: Re: Dates for Grayrock In a message dated 97-12-23 00:16:59 EST, you write: Robert,Hartwick is terriffic!! I have stayed there 4 or 5 times (7-10 days eachtime). Full facilities, very nice. Strongly suggest it.Doug HallGA from FlyfishT@aol.com Wed Dec 24 16:30:15 1997 Subject: getting started Hello. I'm new here and I need some help. I want to start making bambooflyrods. With the Carmicheal & Garrison bamboo rod building book, am I goingtobe able to build it start to finish? So I don't make mistakes or buy thingsIdon't need, what is the best way to start? Video? Books? I was told thattheplaning form is the most expensive tool. Where can I get one at the bestprice? Also, what other tools are needed and who supplies them? Tom N.(FlyfishT) from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed Dec 24 16:53:46 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work In a message dated 97-12-23 16:02:47 EST, you write: I am the maker that Brian referenced, Bonnie's lathes are very solidlathes.Step down belt drives for speed variation, almost silent motors, stablebaseand very portable. Great choice for rodmaking applicationsdoug hallga from 102130.461@compuserve.com Wed Dec 24 17:12:45 1997 Subject: Seasons Greetings from Grayrock To all of our Rodmaker Friends, Best wishes for a merry Christmas and a Happy New Year. We look forward to seeing our old friends and meeting new ones at theRoadKill Cookoff / Rodmakers at Grayrock / Trout Bum Bar-B-Q in June. from our perch at the river's side here in Grayrock [and patiently awaiting the "white", as in "white Christmas"], Steve Southard The Fly FactoryGrayling, Michiganwww.troutbums.com from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 24 17:47:51 1997 Subject: Re: getting started Wlecome to the list! Take a look at:http://www.teleport.com/~gord/canelink.shtmlBrowse through all the links, and I think mostof your questions will be answered. If not, askhere and you will get more answers than you know what to do with. Darryl Hayashida(also known as Sir D if youhappen to see people referto that name.) from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Dec 24 18:00:39 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings from Grayrock The Cattanach's (Wayne - Matt - Lyndi) would like to wish all fellowrodmakers a Marry Christmas and Prosperous New Year. Speaking of NewYear -this will be the third for the list shortly - A special THANKS - to MikeBiondo (list guy) - Jerry Foster (master webmeister ) - and all listmembers Wayne - Matt - Lyndi CattanachCasnovia, MI from jfoster@gte.net Wed Dec 24 18:37:07 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings from Grayrock mac-creator="4D4F5353" Happy Holliday everyone Jerry from Bopep@aol.com Wed Dec 24 18:51:07 1997 Subject: Re: getting started I found my most $$ tool has been my lathe which I bought to make handlesandreelseats for graphite rods which if you aren't doing already, is a goodwayto start into rodbuilding. If you're hankering to do bamboo, look into buyingunfinished blanks or get a few restorations under your belt. What you'lllearnabout finishing a rod will pay off in making your first rod beautiful. Thatway, all that leaves is the bamboo work to add on to that which you'll havealready learned. That's the way I started and because of that I alreadyhaveorders for rods in my first year of rodmaking from "scratch". That's my.02... R.W. Hoffhines P.S. Check out Wayne's video read Garrison a million or so times and don'tletthe plethora of different ways to do one given step that you'll see herefreakyou out. from lblan@provide.net Thu Dec 25 00:32:35 1997 Subject: Aquarama Phone Number - was - Re: Camping at Grayrock Aquarama - (517) 348 - 5405. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Camping at Grayrock Robert et. al - I camped at Whispering Pines (Frank Love's place on the Manistee).There was an opening nite cookout here, and the river is right belowyou. But the drive in to town was too long, and the facilities were abit too rustic for my taste. They'd be great if you were just there tofish, but to get cleaned-up for polite society they left a little to bedesired. I'm going to camp at Hartwick Pines this year. Maybe if thereare enough people camping we could try to reserve a group of sites? Anytakers? Brian from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Dec 25 10:31:40 1997 LAA01120 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 11:31:38-0500 Subject: Xmas Gifts Survey Ok Guys _ both wonderous andsubline. I got a decorative non functional (gag) creel to hand on the shopwall and an iron candle stick with a fish welded on it for decoration this year (also good for theshop)! It apears that the motto is "when in doubt - get him something with afish on it". P.S. I did get some other very nice gifts. Regards Chris from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Dec 25 11:20:48 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey Chris Bogart wrote: Ok Guys _ both wonderous andsubline. I received a duck night light. I use a lot of duck feathers and haveeven carved a few ducks. The night light must reference my morefrequent trips to the loo in the middle of the night? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from cattanac@wmis.net Thu Dec 25 12:25:26 1997 t2.wmis.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with SMTP id SAA03838 for; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 18:27:29 GMT Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey Well this afternoon I will be fishing the White in Arkansas via TrophyRivers - the only catch is that the game only lists 'plastic' rods - Ie-mailed Sierra voicing my complaint. Wayne from jczimny@dol.net Thu Dec 25 14:52:27 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings George W. Barnes wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: George W. Barnes wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 11:30 PMSubject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Ed,A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerfulbecause ofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 orsix sidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square. Wrong!Zimny Mr. Z., That's the short answer; what's the long answer or is it statedadequatelyin another book I have overlooked? I understand there is extrastress atthe peak of the five strip, but what is the whole story (sorry if Iamasking for too much bandwidth)? Happy Holidays, Ted G.First of all, a Quad is not a square. It is four laminated triangles orpyramids. Since the material is the same, the inherent strength ofthecross section most likely depends on cross-section area, not,indeed,cross section geometry. It will agree, however, that cross sectionalgeometry probably does influence the stiffness of a rod. This, in thecase of the five sided rod, increase is bought at the expense of aconsiderable increase in the stress.In fact, the quad is the inherently "strongest" and longest lasting ofall configurations, since the geometry stresses the cane at a lowerlevel than the other configurations.Zimny John: It's been a long time since I was exposed to the theories and almostas longsince I've used any of the exposure but I believe the moment ofinertia of thevarious composit shapes will be a large factor. GeorgeGeorgeDo you mean hex shape as opposed to quad? Or, do you mean a "bundle"oftriangles?But I'm not so sure of this application. We're not calculating staticstress on a beam composed of a set of triangles. A rod is a dynamiccantilever. And I'm not an engineer.But, I like quads....a lot. For a good caster, the most accurate andprecise of all rods.John John:First I've never subscribed to the theory that a fly rod is acantilever, theapproach taken by Garrison. It is though a means to an end.Regardless of what it ends up being when in use, moments are generated.All I was pointing out is that the moment of inertia of the cross section,be itsquare, round, solid, hollow, hex or pentagon, that moment of inertia hastodetrermine the stress generated.I've not made too many four siders but agree with what both you and Tomsaid. My lastone also has become a favorite rod, perhaps lucky is a better word.Caught its limitof 14" and 16" native brookies in about twenty minutes last spring.GeorgeYes George. Moments by cross section area. But that's probably not thesame as stiffness. Have you not noticed that a quad's butt can quicklybecome much stiffer than a similar (.93 ratio) hex butt somewhere around.260?John from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Dec 25 14:56:18 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey The fishing related gifts were fly tying materialsA.J. Campbell's "Classic and Antique Fishing Tackle"a facecloth embroidered with a full-dress Salmon flyand told to go out and buy myself a "new" fly rod Yeah!Reed from Leessinker@aol.com Thu Dec 25 16:28:06 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey Nothin, not even a bag of snowman poop ,which I could have used for short term strike indicators.Ihope the '98 catalogs come out soon , I about wore my '97 wish books. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Dec 25 17:21:38 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings J. C. Zimny wrote: George W. Barnes wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: George W. Barnes wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 11:30 PMSubject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Ed,A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerfulbecause ofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 orsix sidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square. Wrong!Zimny Mr. Z., That's the short answer; what's the long answer or is it statedadequatelyin another book I have overlooked? I understand there is extrastress atthe peak of the five strip, but what is the whole story (sorry if Iamasking for too much bandwidth)? Happy Holidays, Ted G.First of all, a Quad is not a square. It is four laminated trianglesorpyramids. Since the material is the same, the inherent strength ofthecross section most likely depends on cross-section area, not,indeed,cross section geometry. It will agree, however, that crosssectionalgeometry probably does influence the stiffness of a rod. This, inthecase of the five sided rod, increase is bought at the expense of aconsiderable increase in the stress.In fact, the quad is the inherently "strongest" and longest lastingofall configurations, since the geometry stresses the cane at alowerlevel than the other configurations.Zimny John: It's been a long time since I was exposed to the theories and almostas longsince I've used any of the exposure but I believe the moment ofinertia of thevarious composit shapes will be a large factor. GeorgeGeorgeDo you mean hex shape as opposed to quad? Or, do you mean a "bundle"oftriangles?But I'm not so sure of this application. We're not calculating staticstress on a beam composed of a set of triangles. A rod is a dynamiccantilever. And I'm not an engineer.But, I like quads....a lot. For a good caster, the most accurate andprecise of all rods.John John:First I've never subscribed to the theory that a fly rod is acantilever, theapproach taken by Garrison. It is though a means to an end.Regardless of what it ends up being when in use, moments aregenerated.All I was pointing out is that the moment of inertia of the crosssection, be itsquare, round, solid, hollow, hex or pentagon, that moment of inertiahas todetrermine the stress generated.I've not made too many four siders but agree with what both you andTom said. My lastone also has become a favorite rod, perhaps lucky is a better word.Caught its limitof 14" and 16" native brookies in about twenty minutes last spring.GeorgeYes George. Moments by cross section area. But that's probably not thesame as stiffness. Have you not noticed that a quad's butt can quicklybecome much stiffer than a similar (.93 ratio) hex butt somewherearound.260? John No argument, John. But I said stress not stiffness. Don't think they are thesame. George from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Dec 25 17:21:44 1997 Subject: Re: Seasons Greetings J. C. Zimny wrote: George W. Barnes wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: George W. Barnes wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Sunday, December 21, 1997 11:30 PMSubject: Re: Seasons Greetings Grhghlndr wrote: Ed,A five sided rod is supposed to be stronger and more powerfulbecause ofputting a flat across from a seam.Bret Oh yeh a quad rod in my opinion would not be as strong as 5 orsix sidedbecause the weakest geometric shape is a square. Wrong!Zimny Mr. Z., That's the short answer; what's the long answer or is it statedadequatelyin another book I have overlooked? I understand there is extrastress atthe peak of the five strip, but what is the whole story (sorry if Iamasking for too much bandwidth)? Happy Holidays, Ted G.First of all, a Quad is not a square. It is four laminated trianglesorpyramids. Since the material is the same, the inherent strength ofthecross section most likely depends on cross-section area, not,indeed,cross section geometry. It will agree, however, that crosssectionalgeometry probably does influence the stiffness of a rod. This, inthecase of the five sided rod, increase is bought at the expense of aconsiderable increase in the stress.In fact, the quad is the inherently "strongest" and longest lastingofall configurations, since the geometry stresses the cane at alowerlevel than the other configurations.Zimny John: It's been a long time since I was exposed to the theories and almostas longsince I've used any of the exposure but I believe the moment ofinertia of thevarious composit shapes will be a large factor. GeorgeGeorgeDo you mean hex shape as opposed to quad? Or, do you mean a "bundle"oftriangles?But I'm not so sure of this application. We're not calculating staticstress on a beam composed of a set of triangles. A rod is a dynamiccantilever. And I'm not an engineer.But, I like quads....a lot. For a good caster, the most accurate andprecise of all rods.John John:First I've never subscribed to the theory that a fly rod is acantilever, theapproach taken by Garrison. It is though a means to an end.Regardless of what it ends up being when in use, moments aregenerated.All I was pointing out is that the moment of inertia of the crosssection, be itsquare, round, solid, hollow, hex or pentagon, that moment of inertiahas todetrermine the stress generated.I've not made too many four siders but agree with what both you andTom said. My lastone also has become a favorite rod, perhaps lucky is a better word.Caught its limitof 14" and 16" native brookies in about twenty minutes last spring.GeorgeYes George. Moments by cross section area. But that's probably not thesame as stiffness. Have you not noticed that a quad's butt can quicklybecome much stiffer than a similar (.93 ratio) hex butt somewherearound.260?John from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Dec 25 17:21:47 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey Chris Bogart wrote: Ok Guys _ both wonderous andsubline. I got a decorative non functional (gag) creel to hand on the shopwall and an iron candlestick with a fish welded on it for decoration this year (also good for theshop)! It apears that the motto is "when in doubt - get him something witha fish on it". P.S. I did get some other very nice gifts. Regards Chris Chris:How about a nice clear christmas tree ornament with a "fly" hanginginside, but with genuinejungle cock eyes? Perhaps a combination fly/float?George from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Dec 25 17:36:19 1997 (CET) ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 23:54:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey ----------Got "The Best of the PlaningForm" so I really don't have time for this Best regards Carsten from FlyfishT@aol.com Thu Dec 25 18:10:46 1997 Subject: Re: Re: getting started Darryl, Thanks for the tip. I tried to access the site you told me about (below) andit says that it cannot be retrieved. Can you check the address and makesurethat it is correct? Have you heard about any problems regarding this site?Thanks Tom N.(FlyfishT) In a message dated 12/24/97 11:51:29 PM, you wrote: from EMiller257@aol.com Thu Dec 25 20:56:07 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey This year I received a fish key chain and a book titled "Joe And Me", whichisabout fishing. Also my wife bought me a Dremel Moto-tool (made inRacineWisc.) and I'm using it to dress guides. Everything else was non- fishing.Thanks for asking and I have a great New Year. Ed Miller from nicksco@fia.net Thu Dec 25 21:09:46 1997 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA27254 for Subject: On the lighter side Monday, I had a near death experience that changed me forever, I wenthorseback riding. Everthing was going fine until the horse startsbouncing out of control. I tried with all my might to hang on, but wasthrown off. Just when things could not possibly get worst, my foot getscaught in the stirrup. When this happened,I fell head first to theground. My head continued to bounce harder as the horse did not stop oreven slow down. Just as I was giving up hope and losing consciousness,the Walmart manager came out and unplugged it! Friendship is a strange thing... We find ourselves telling each otherthe deepest details of our lives, things we don't even share with ourfamilies who raised us, But what is a friend? A confidant? A lover? Afellow email junkie? A shoulder to cry on? An ear to listen? A heart tofeel? A friend is all these things, and more. No matter where we met, Icall you a friend. A word so small, yet so large in feeling, a wordfilled with emotion. It is true great things come in small packages.Once the package of friendship has been opened, it can never beclosed, it is a constant book always being written, waiting to be read,and enjoyed....Every one on the list have a great New Year C. O. Nicks from Bopep@aol.com Thu Dec 25 21:40:28 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey COAL. from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Dec 25 21:40:55 1997 WAA04115 for ; Thu, 25 Dec 1997 22:40:52 Subject: Belated Seasons Greetings This message was delayed while I got reinstated. 12/25/97John Zimney has it right. The quad is inherently superior because it hasthe shortest distance from the neutral axis to the working surfaces(favorable moment of inertia) therefore lowest stresses for a givenweightprofile. But quads tend to be slower in action except for rods like John's.How do you do that, John? Bill from jczimny@dol.net Thu Dec 25 22:32:25 1997 Subject: Re: Belated Seasons Greetings Bill Fink wrote: This message was delayed while I got reinstated. 12/25/97John Zimney has it right. The quad is inherently superior because it hasthe shortest distance from the neutral axis to the working surfaces(favorable moment of inertia) therefore lowest stresses for a givenweightprofile. But quads tend to be slower in action except for rods like John's.How do you do that, John? BillYou know--I don't know. I think the answer may lie in the processing orperhaps the glue. Certainly, my dimensions are not out of the ordinary.On average, they're smaller and finer than the Edwards rods that I'vebeen able to mic. And, yet, withal, they're somewhat quicker. I use theword "quicker" rather than stiffer. I dunno.This is why I've had to create my own tapers.Best Regards to you and our Irish friends who know how to keepChristmas.Tipple one for me and I will do one for you. from jfoster@gte.net Thu Dec 25 22:37:12 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey mac-creator="4D4F5353" Reed I'll get the taper worked up and posted, thanks ( Is that your NEW rod?)Chris, I also got a mini creel, 4 in, it's already hanging on the leg of my planing bench full of colored felt tips.Wayne, i bet you can fix your plastic problem if you wanted to :) What happened to Mike " " Biondo Jerry from mrj@seanet.com Thu Dec 25 23:30:32 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA11893 for Subject: Re: Re: getting started This is a good site address. I just verified it.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: getting started Darryl, Thanks for the tip. I tried to access the site you told me about (below)andit says that it cannot be retrieved. Can you check the address and makesurethat it is correct? Have you heard about any problems regarding thissite?Thanks Tom N.(FlyfishT) In a message dated 12/24/97 11:51:29 PM, you wrote: http://www.teleport.com/~gord/canelink.shtmlBrowse through all the links, and I think mostof your questions will be answered. If not, askhere and you will get more answers than youknow what to do with>> from penr0295@uidaho.edu Fri Dec 26 00:48:57 1997 with SMTP (8.7.6/8.7.1) id WAA02567 for ; doing -bs Subject: "Forms" website addition I recently had the good fortune to talk with Lawrence Waldron, who is amachinist and long-time cane rod builder who lives in England. He hasmade numerous planing forms, including sets for notable European builderssuch as Tom Moran. He shared with me the design for his push/pull forms,which are a bit different than the style of forms most of us are probablyfamiliar with. While he is not making any claims for the superiority ofhis design/layout, it is one that is based on years of professionalexperience. He granted his permission for me to add a webpage that details his ideasregarding planing form design. Those who are interested can find it at: http://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/waldron.htm Thomas PenroseBend, OR from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Dec 26 07:12:24 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA14593 for Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey At 11:51 PM 12/25/97 +0100, you wrote: ----------Got "The Best of the PlaningForm" so I really don't have time for this Best regards Carsten I got Wayne's tapes, ditto. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from Canerods@aol.com Fri Dec 26 07:24:28 1997 Subject: Re: getting started In a message dated 97-12-24 17:35:24 EST, you write: Tom, You can buy a used Stanley 9 1/2 plane at fleamarkets/swapmeets, dialcalipersand dial indicators can be purchased mail-order for a few bucks. Videosandbooks are carried by Angler's Workshop, Cabella's, and many others. Look through Jerry F's and B. Conner's web sites for a good idea of what'sneeded. The suggestion of building a few graphite blanks, followed by a fewrestorations or cane blanks is a very good one. Build your skills a little ata time - that's what I've been doing. Happy Holidays, Don Burns from tball@mail.portup.com Fri Dec 26 08:34:28 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey Got Gierach's Bamboo rods, another mini picture book and a corduroy shirtwith Trout Flies. Happy HolidaysTom from Trout Lake from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Dec 26 09:39:18 1997 KAA10216 for ; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 10:39:21-0500 Subject: Survey To All I'm glad everybody enjoyed seeing the survey results and some of the interesting things people get. But, the best gift that my wife gives to meis allowing me to pursue this craft - I will never forget it. In the season ofgivingit is sometimes the overlooked thing that means the most. Wish you all a Happy New Year and good wishes and tapers inbuilding rods this year. Regards Chris from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Dec 26 10:37:09 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey I received a 7'6" 4 wt R.L. Winston IM6 plastic rod from my loving wife. Don B. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Dec 26 11:51:44 1997 Subject: Re: getting started In a message dated 97-12-25 19:15:04 EST, you write: Thanks for the tip. I tried to access the site you told me about (below)andit says that it cannot be retrieved. Can you check the address and makesurethat it is correct? Have you heard about any problems regarding thissite?Thanks Hmmmm...When I look in my favorites folder it comes up:http://www.teleport.com/~gord/canelink.shtml and it displays perfectly when I click on it.But, as I look at the page the address displayson my browser as:http://www.teleport.com/%7Egord/canelink.shtml You could also try Jerry Fosters web page at:http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm The first web site is Gordon Johnson's linksto other bamboo web sites, and the second isJerry Fosters Rodbuilders web site. Darryl Hayashida from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Dec 26 13:03:34 1997 Subject: Re: getting started Look at Thomas Penroses' page as well. Very informative. Hey Thomas! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Re: getting startedDate: Friday, December 26, 1997 9:47 AM In a message dated 97-12-25 19:15:04 EST, you write: Thanks for the tip. I tried to access the site you told me about(below) andit says that it cannot be retrieved. Can you check the address andmakesurethat it is correct? Have you heard about any problems regarding thissite?Thanks Hmmmm...When I look in my favorites folder it comes up:http://www.teleport.com/~gord/canelink.shtml and it displays perfectly when I click on it.But, as I look at the page the address displayson my browser as:http://www.teleport.com/%7Egord/canelink.shtml You could also try Jerry Fosters web page at:http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm The first web site is Gordon Johnson's linksto other bamboo web sites, and the second isJerry Fosters Rodbuilders web site. Darryl Hayashida from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Dec 26 13:31:02 1997 8.7/8.7) id OAA15286 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 Subject: Re: getting started Try pointing through my Fishing Links page athttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/fishing.htmthen scroll down to Colorado and Dick Spurr's Classic Chronicle page.Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from christophe.lievremont@planetb.fr Fri Dec 26 13:40:58 1997 casimir.planetb.fr (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA18405 for; Fri, 26 Dec 1997 20:35:33 GMT Subject: Newcommer and about silk lines John A. Whitaker wrote: I while back we had some discussion on silk fly lines and I have had thebug since. I have started to braid my own, though I am still very earlyinto experimenting. I've have a few questions you might be able to helpme with or point me in the direction of some answers... 1) Finishing. Linseed oil and talc fills the braid very well, but Iknow that the line was traditionally varnished. Any ideas on what>varnish to use or formulation to make my own. 2) I'm going rather blindly at tapers and would love to get somemeasurements from existing lines. If anyone would be willing to takethe time to measure a line or two, I would be indebted. (I wouldcertianly compile all gathered information and share with others...) Iwould like to get diameters every foot but will willingly accept every 3feet to make this a more reasonable task. Notes on casting qualitieswould also be appreciated. I'm not looking to copy existing lines, butto gather some baseline infomation. I'm still a ways of from getting things the way I want them, but thingsare going far better that I expected. I not looking to gear up forcommercial prodution, but would like to produce some for barter, etc.John, ------------Hello all, I have subscribed to this list several months ago, and I have followed thedifferent thread with great interest. For the moment I have not intervenedon this list because the majority of the threads are about very technicalsubjects that I do not control for the moment .... but I want to learn alittle more about them ... Today I am writing to the list because thesubject was silk lines and that I know a little about them. * First, I introduce myself : I live in France just near the Swiss border where they are IMHO some veryvery interesting rivers to fly fish. The majority of them are between thetypical chalk streams and rivers with fast currents. The majority of thefishes who live in them are very selective and very wild. On one of my hotspot, the wild browns reaches the 8 kilogram and the graylings the 2 evenif course, the majority of fishes caught are smaller. We practice generallysight fishing, specially with tiny nymphs and dry flies. I fly fish all during the year, beginning with trout's (March) andgraylings (May), then pike's fishing. It depends of the time of the year,the level of the rivers .... and my choice of the day !!. I try to fish themost of my time but years after years I am more busy, so I fish less than Ishould like .... The problem of every fly fishermen I think ... * Second : about the rods : In all fairness, I must say to you that I use only graphite rods (builtsome of them with some of my friends) even if I know and if I have testedseveral time some French bamboo rods. I think especially to the PEZON ETMICHEL rods, range of PPP (Puissance Progressive parfaite - that I shalltranslate like : Perfect Progressive Power ) made with the advises of thelast Charles RITZ and Pierre CREUSEVAULT. Very good rods that areactuallyvery difficult to find in perfect conditions for these second hand rods. Rodbuilding is little new for me so I want really to learn many thingsabout this part of fishing. * when I do not fish : I am generally on the eur@flyfish list and the US : flyfishing@list andmore recently the rods builders list. It is nice to read and exchange ideasabout FFishing when some days you can not go fishing. * At last about the topic of the day : I have tested several time different silk lines (I don't speak today aboutthe French parallel silk line built by the Ets. MARZE and called ROBINSONand useful in very fast waters). If I think that the profile of the PEZONand MICHEL (DT and WF) is very good (not really surprising, it was found byC. RITZ and P. CREUSEVAULT at the holly time) and cast beautifully, Ireally don't like the finish who ALWAYS sticks, IMHO, more than he would..... At the opposite, the lines build by J. M. DUBOS (he is just retired now andat my knowledge, he has not find a successor ...), have a better finish :he tried during many many years to find THE perfect finish : he has found avery good one with the help of the late Jean-Louis PELLETIER (one verygoodwet fly fisherman and a very good chemist too).... Some years ago you were been able to see in his shop in Paris, in theSaint- Louis island, a very special tool that he used to braid his silklines. He has made himself this tool with mechanic parts coming from alldifferent household tools ... It made very big noises in his shop !! I don't know what is the recipe of it .... Jut know that he used vegetaloils and that there is a substantial difference between this finish and theothers ..... the Dubos one smelts very different from the others one ....and doesn't stick like the others .... and last in the time ... It seems too be a very top secret recipe, all the guys who makes silk linesdon't want to say to other what they use .... Anyway, good luck for your researches !! Regards. Christophe.(in Digest mode) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Dec 26 18:59:45 1997 Sat, 27 Dec 1997 08:59:35 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Survey On Fri, 26 Dec 1997, Chris Bogart wrote: To All I'm glad everybody enjoyed seeing the survey results and some of the interesting things people get. But, the best gift that my wife gives tome is allowing me to pursue this craft - I will never forget it. In the seasonof givingit is sometimes the overlooked thing that means the most. Wish you all a Happy New Year and good wishes and tapers inbuilding rods this year. Regards Chris Our wives sound similar in that respect. A good wife is a blessing, not only does mine encourage me to do this she also gave me a set of boules a few drinks. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Dec 26 20:26:37 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: WAYNE Wayne I've tried emailing you to your email address for the last three weeksabout that oven shell you were going to send me and am assuming becauseyou haven't answered me that you haven't received my massages thatmaybethis way will work. Did you receive my address and when can I expect youto ship it to me and the bill for the oven shell and shipping, sorry guys for using the list but this maybe my only resort. Patrick Coffey from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Dec 26 20:41:41 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work George, The n/s tubing I sell is 18%. The bar stock is 12%. The maindifferenceis the 18% is alot harder and stronger than the 12%. You can really tell thediff. when you are working with it in the lathe. The 12% turns like a pieceofbutter.It's very easy to work with. But, it doesn't have the strength of the 18%.When turning 18% in the lathe, it is like working with titanium. It tendstoheat upvery fast. You have to slow down when working with 18% ,and use alot ofcoolant-WD40, STP oil treatment,or what ever.You have to slow your speed anddepthof cut down compared to the 12%. Dave LeClair from WDHCJL@aol.com Fri Dec 26 21:37:29 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey I got from my wonderfull better half a reel case. Custom leather, handcarvedand hand dyed by James Accord, the leather artist that did the rodcase fortheMakersRod 98. Words can not describe! Anyone that might be interested,heand his wife (another artist) have a website: www.turtlemoon.com Hedoesfly wallets, reel cases, rod cases and anything custom you could want(including cigar cases). The fly's he carves into the work are so detailed,you could tye the pattern from it! A true artist! What a great present!doug hallGA from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Dec 26 22:56:35 1997 Subject: Step Down ferrules All,I was talking today with a fellow who has handled, cast, and soldmorenew and vintage cane rods than most. The subject turned to ferrules andhe began to get warm. My friend contends that Super Zs and the like donot provide the feel of the classic step down ferrule; he doen't likethem at all.I have only one rod with the Super Swiss ferrules, all my others, oldand new have the step down, so I really have no means of comparison. Hasany listmember done a comparison?Best regards,Reed from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Dec 27 05:38:02 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA08906 for; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 11:42:23 GMT Subject: Re: Rod fitting materials At 09:16 24/12/97 -0500, you wrote:If brass is traditional (and I understand tradition is rather admired inyour country), use brass. What type of brass is used in traditionalBritish rod jewelry? Has it been drawn to increase it's strength andhardness? I've been talking to some folks from the copper trade association aboutwhat type of bronze would share the most characteristics with 18%nicklesilver, but have the color of naval bronze. I'm ordering someliterature right after the holidays, and will post anything I learn(since I'm clueless now, about anything would qualify!). They have aweb page, but I have it bookmarked at work, not home. I'll post it whenI find it. Brian "I didn't know that this "hobby" was going to consume my life"Creek I'm nothing of a metallurgist, so I can't really offer much information onthe properties of the brass. What I can report is that the drawn brass tubeferrules we have mostly used for the last hundred years have (as Imentionedelsewhere) lasted very well. If an old rod has had a great deal of use it isoccasionally necessary to 'nip' it up in the three jaw chuck, but thatlittle job seems to cure all ills for a good long time. Perhaps the tube isS T R E T C H I N G rather than just wearing away, and the 'nipping up'pushes it back into place. (It could be that I've just talked what the lowerorders here in England refer to as 'a load of bollocks.') I think I need toget some blood back into my alcohol. Anyway, forgive the lay view ofmetal.British rodmakers Hardys, Chubbs, Ogden Smiths, and Milwards have allusedNickel Silver at one time or another. Edward Barder does now too on hismagnificent but exPENsive rods. I think most of us here believe the N/S tobe superior - all things being equal. But, a well made brass ferrule lastsalmost indefinitely, and is certainly better than a badly made N/S ferrule. Until circa 1950 most British rods had 'blacked' brass fittings. Most,through the last thirty years have had aluminium handle fittings, someanodised, some not. Nickel-silver would certainly have been better. Interesting to read Tony's posting re phosphor bronze from old keel bolts. Ihave a few of those skulking about somewhere in the boatshed, but themetaldoes though seem to be very heavy indeed. Maybe this is not a problem inthesmall diameters we use. John Cooper (England) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Dec 27 06:38:12 1997 Sat, 27 Dec 1997 20:38:04 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Rod fitting materials Interesting to read Tony's posting re phosphor bronze from old keel bolts.Ihave a few of those skulking about somewhere in the boatshed, but themetaldoes though seem to be very heavy indeed. Maybe this is not a problem inthesmall diameters we use. John Cooper (England) Without weighing the bronze to compare to NS I'd imagine them to be about the same, as from what I can tell NS is a bronze of sorts.The trouble with the phosphur bronze is that it's so time consuming to turn if you're starting with keel bolts or 19mm rod although it sounds like your lathe is up to it. As I wrote however, the finished product sure looks good. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Dec 27 09:24:31 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Rod fitting materials In a message dated 12/27/97 12:39:54 PM, you wrote: John and Tony - The densities of Brass, Bronze and Nickel Silver will notvarymore than a percent or two, since all are high copper alloys. I can't speakabout the machining properties of the various alloys, but if I were lookingtosubstitute for nickel silver, I would opt for the bronzes, which areslightlytougher than the brasses. The nickel silver seems to be the best bet forstrength, but not by all that much. There are a lot of alloys to pick from,however, and I would look at availability first, and then start looking atproperties. Tony- Being a boatbuilder, you are no doubt familiar with monel, a nickelcopper alloy. Nickel and copper share a similar chrystal structure and willalloy perfectly in any proportion. Monel is at the high nickel end of thespectrum, the cupro nickels are in the middle, and the nickel silvers are atthe high copper end.The bronzes are alloys of copper and tin. from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Dec 27 09:54:04 1997 Subject: Classic tapers/Thomas "Favorite" Friends A couple of you have expressed an interest in the 7'6" Thomas "Favorite" Imentioned last week, so here it is. Once again, these numbers include varnish, so deduct appx. 6/1,000thstotal (3each side) and you should be as close as makes no odds. 1 .0675 .09310 .11915 .13420 .14625 .16530 .18435 .19540 .19645 ferrule50 .21155 .22260 .23965 .26370 .28175 .29379 .31680 .34481 1/2 .410 You'll notice I've added a couple stations at the butt to try and give asaccurate an impression of the butt swell as possible. The final one is justfwd. of the winding check. This rod has an all-cork handle with a down-locking slip ring. The totallength is 8 1/2" with a symmetrical cigar-shaped grip swelling to 1.125"inthe middle. The cork at the reel seat has a dia. of .675 for the last 3". I also mic'ed a Scottish Farlow rod of 7' length, which I'll send out ASAP Enjoy,Davy from SSunderl@aol.com Sat Dec 27 11:05:36 1997 Subject: Re: getting started Tom, As one who is also getting started I am going to try to make my forms outofmaple. Bruce Connor, bconner@cybercom.net has some great web pages anda lotof useful information on building forms and winders. I also foundhttp://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmto be quite informative. I got my maple today and plan to get started today or tomorrrow on theforms.I am using Wayne Cattanach's book and find it very straight forward. Wayneappears to be a frequent contributer to the list server. Good luck. Steve Sunderlandssunderl@aol.com from 102130.461@compuserve.com Sat Dec 27 11:31:18 1997 Subject: Camping at Grayrock The Aquarama (517) 348 - 5405 is the motel of choice for the gathering. Just upthe street - clean - reasonable and breakfast. from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Dec 27 12:04:59 1997 Subject: Re: Classic tapers/Thomas "Favorite" Listers; Please dis my last transmission. Don't know how that one got into thechamber, but it cooked off and, evidently, hosed everyone I know. Have togetthe boy to give me another lesson on this thing:-) Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Dec 27 12:10:26 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey Wayne,They only list plastic rods so that they can require different rods forevery little change in conditions when an 8' parabolic cane would almostdoit all.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Dec 27 12:12:31 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Lathe Work Where can one acquire one of Bonnie's lathes?Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Sat Dec 27 12:37:07 1997 Subject: Re: Rod fitting materials TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 12/27/97 12:39:54 PM, you wrote: the same,>> John and Tony - The densities of Brass, Bronze and Nickel Silver will notvarymore than a percent or two, since all are high copper alloys. I can't speakabout the machining properties of the various alloys, but if I werelooking tosubstitute for nickel silver, I would opt for the bronzes, which areslightlytougher than the brasses. The nickel silver seems to be the best bet forstrength, but not by all that much. There are a lot of alloys to pick from,however, and I would look at availability first, and then start looking atproperties.Tony- Being a boatbuilder, you are no doubt familiar with monel, a nickelcopper alloy. Nickel and copper share a similar chrystal structure andwillalloy perfectly in any proportion. Monel is at the high nickel end of thespectrum, the cupro nickels are in the middle, and the nickel silvers areatthe high copper end.The bronzes are alloys of copper and tin.Tom,Nickel Silver is not considered a cupro/nickel alloy? A revelation!John from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Dec 27 13:20:43 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: getting started FlyfishT wrote: Hello. I'm new here and I need some help. I want to start making bambooflyrods. With the Carmicheal & Garrison bamboo rod building book, am Igoing tobe able to build it start to finish? So I don't make mistakes or buythings Idon't need, what is the best way to start? Video? Books? I was told thattheplaning form is the most expensive tool. Where can I get one at the bestprice? Also, what other tools are needed and who supplies them? Tom N.(FlyfishT) Tom,Having just completed my first rod, I was just where you are inAugustof this year. So let me offer my $.02 worth.First, get Wayne Cattanach's book. It is the most straightforwardguide to actually building your first rod. And Wayne's a heck of a niceguy.Second, explore the list and other available avenues to find someoneinyour area who's willing to let you look their shop over. Actuallyseeing and possibly handling planing forms, etc. with your own eyes addsa dimension that can't be acquired any other way.Third, ask lots of questions, to the list and to any rodmaking friendsyou make. Those on this list aren't shy about offering advice, and allI've received here has been on the money.Fourth, if you have lots of determination and really want to savemoney, make your own tools where possible. Buy a good plane, a Hockblade, a dial caliper, and a 60 degree point for a depth gauge, (Depthguages can be fashioned reasonably from inexpensive dial indicators) andmake your forms, binder, etc. Not only do you save money, you developan intimate connection with things you have lots of hours in.Finally, keep a sense of humor. This rod-building business is lots offun and sometimes I take it far too seriously. If I can offerinexperienced advice, give me a call at (318)435-4359, Days; or 435- 2278at home.Harry Boyd Winnsboro, LA from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Sat Dec 27 13:55:29 1997 0000 Subject: Re: Klein Lathe Woodcraft has them.....check out their site at http://www.woodcraft.comandorder a catalog........ At 01:03 PM 12/27/97 EST, you wrote:Where can one acquire one of Bonnie's lathes?Hank. from WDHCJL@aol.com Sat Dec 27 14:09:37 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work In a message dated 97-12-27 13:16:19 EST, you write: Klein Design, Inc.17910 SE 110th StreetRenton, WA 98059206-226-5937 doug hall from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Dec 27 14:24:14 1997 Subject: Sharpening Plane Blades I am making a blank for a fellow lister I metat a Flyfishing Fair, and he is getting intorodmaking himself. He was asking abouttuning a plane and this was one of thethings I sent him. I thought it might helpsome of the new listers also. Darryl Hayashida ***********************************************This morning I was performing a step of planeblade sharpening that doesn't get mentionedvery much, and since you were asking aboutsharpening stones the other day I thought Iwould mention this. Flatten your waterstone.The nature of waterstones are that they wear away quickly. That's what exposes fresh cuttingsurfaces. As a consequence they tend to getdished in the middle. Check it with a straightedge every so often and when they are disheduse a piece of plate glass (fairly thick, like a piece of sliding glass door) and rub it around inlittle circles until it is flat again. This step, andpolishing the back of your blade makes for thesharpest blade. Darryl from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Dec 27 16:23:20 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Rod fitting materials In a message dated 12/27/97 6:42:29 PM, you wrote: John - Not by name in the formal alloy designations. I should havementionedthat the nickel silvers also have some zinc in the mix. from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Dec 27 16:40:21 1997 Subject: old tools links Dear Listers Just in case there is somebody out there (in here?) who doesn't knowaboutthis site, here is a late Christmas present! It is called "The Framed OldTools Site" and contains about a jillion links for tools, mostly used andantique. I ctrl.Ced it off my window, but let me know if for some reasonyoucan't raise it. Happens to me on a daily basis! http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~alf/en/toolframe.html Hope you benefit from this!Davy from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Dec 27 17:18:00 1997 SAA27006 for ; Sat, 27 Dec 1997 18:18:00-0500 Subject: Ferrule Epoxy To All: A while back we had a thread on glueing ferrules. I half paidattention toit. Well I ran out of the epoxy I was using and had to go buy some more. Isaw anumber of epoxy's but I finally found what I like. What I use is the Devcon 5 Minute Thick Epoxy Gell and not the clearstuff. The gell hasone tube of blue and the other of white. This stuff is much stronger(2500psi vs 1500psi) thanthe clear and I like the way it does the job. I have now seen it under other"house" brands. Thestuff is good. It dries to what they call "cream" color and has lots of flexin it. Haven'tlost a ferrule yet. So if anyone sees this stuff or confused by all theepoxy's and was wondering . . . I reccomend it highly. I find that you can do the full set of ferrules with just a dab of thestuff. The trick is get theferrules glued and mounted then go back and use string to tie down thetabs. Regards Chris from sats@gte.net Sat Dec 27 20:39:19 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey It apears that the motto is "when in doubt - get him something witha fish on it". _The Bamboo rod and how to build it_ ( I've wanted it for some time, tocomparer to Wayne's book, which I already have. The theory being that Iftwopeople tell me something very smiler I might understand it...) A santa fisherman ornament Two tea shirts. One from a fly shop in south Florida,the other from a ShopinNew Orleans, that says "Reel Men play with their Flys." One Barns and Noble Gift certificate for a copy of _The Best of thePlainingForum_ (I've been threatening to buy one from "the anglers art" but wastold towait till Santa got here. when I tried to order it through B & N Today Iwastold they didn't have it listed, so I ended up going through "Anglers"anyway.) Oh yes. Finished rebuilding a little 6'3" using deflection to get the actionright. I tried it out monday and boy is it nice. It looks like hell. Lot's ofexperimenting on it. First glue job (so you can guess what that looks like.),First silk thread wraps, new winding cheek made of a part I found in aHardware store. Wrapped it burgundy, gold and white. Only after I got itdonedid I realize it was the colors of the uniform of FSU. Have a happy new year. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from Bopep@aol.com Sat Dec 27 21:29:55 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Epoxy And I thought I was onto something special...if it only had a longer pot lifewhile binding the ferrule tabs down and getting the trapped air out... Rob from lblan@provide.net Sun Dec 28 01:32:05 1997 Subject: Re: Ferrule Epoxy I've installed. Great strength, flexibility when cured, less than 1/10th of1% shrinkage, and a long pot life/cure time. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Ferrule Epoxy To All: A while back we had a thread on glueing ferrules. I half paid attentiontoit. Well I ran out of the epoxy I was using and had to go buy some more.I saw anumber of epoxy's but I finally found what I like. What I use is the Devcon 5 Minute Thick Epoxy Gell and not the clearstuff. The gell hasone tube of blue and the other of white. This stuff is much stronger(2500psi vs 1500psi) thanthe clear and I like the way it does the job. I have now seen it underother "house" brands. Thestuff is good. It dries to what they call "cream" color and has lots offlex in it. Haven'tlost a ferrule yet. So if anyone sees this stuff or confused by all theepoxy's and was wondering . . .I reccomend it highly. I find that you can do the full set of ferrules with just a dab of thestuff. The trick is get theferrules glued and mounted then go back and use string to tie down thetabs. Regards Chris from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Dec 28 07:54:22 1997 Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:54:13 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Rod fitting materials On Sat, 27 Dec 1997, TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 12/27/97 12:39:54 PM, you wrote: the same,>> John and Tony - The densities of Brass, Bronze and Nickel Silver will notvarymore than a percent or two, since all are high copper alloys. I can't speakabout the machining properties of the various alloys, but if I werelooking tosubstitute for nickel silver, I would opt for the bronzes, which areslightlytougher than the brasses. The nickel silver seems to be the best bet forstrength, but not by all that much. There are a lot of alloys to pick from,however, and I would look at availability first, and then start looking atproperties. Tony- Being a boatbuilder, you are no doubt familiar with monel, a nickelcopper alloy. Nickel and copper share a similar chrystal structure andwillalloy perfectly in any proportion. Monel is at the high nickel end of thespectrum, the cupro nickels are in the middle, and the nickel silvers areatthe high copper end.The bronzes are alloys of copper and tin. about with other metals while it's available but when and if it happens that I need to substitute I think the phosphor bronze will be fine, just a little harder to machine though it will eliminate the need for ozidizing.I don't think I'd bother with monel though. I've never tried machining it but as rivets and ring nails it's as tough as your average mother in law and prob about as much fun to deal with. Expensive too.What John mentions re. brass ferrules is true from what I've seen of old Brit rods. A Pape rod from pre WWII I just re-finished has blackened brass ferrules and has had a hell of a life but the ferrules still "pop" like hydrogen in a test tube when pulled.An interesting thing about the ferrules on this rod is that the ferrules are the same OD as the average dimension of the rod at the ferrules,meaning the cane had to be tapered greatly to fit the ferrule and it was infact tapered almost to a point in the case of the male ferrule. As I mentioned this rod has been fished a lot but there isn't any sign of damage of cane at the ferrule and the rod has a very elegant look, nicely offset with all the intermediates.Having said there seems to be no damage, there's no saying this rod was always cast very gently, hardly ever into a headwind and in all probability *never* double hauled. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jfoster@gte.net Sun Dec 28 10:12:07 1997 Subject: Re:Lathe mac-creator="4D4F5353" New (old) Lathe guys try this one http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/techindx.htm Jerry from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Dec 28 10:53:33 1997 LAA03924 for ; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 11:53:34-0500 Subject: Re:Lathe Jerry Good link with good information - now if somebody wants to look and do the queries from there. I found some interesting buys at reasonableprices. Chris On Sun, 28 Dec 1997 10:11:11 +0000, jfoster wrote: New (old) Lathe guys try this one http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~chrish/techindx.htm Jerry Regards Chris from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Dec 28 11:06:54 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe In a message dated 97-12-28 11:17:26 EST, you write: Jerry Thanks a million! This site is great; it's practically a textbook on shopprocesses. It even explains how to anodize aluminum! Davy from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Dec 29 03:48:46 1997 (CET) ; Sun, 28 Dec 1997 22:56:09 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Rod fitting materials Tony wrote----------What John mentions re. brass ferrules is true from what I've seen of old Brit rods. A Pape rod from pre WWII I just re-finished has blackenedbrass ferrules and has had a hell of a life but the ferrules still "pop" like hydrogen in a test tube when pulled.An interesting thing about the ferrules on this rod is that the ferrules are the same OD as the average dimension of the rod at the ferrules,meaning the cane had to be tapered greatly to fit the ferrule and it was infact tapered almost to a point in the case of the male ferrule. As I mentioned this rod has been fished a lot but there isn't any sign of damage of cane at the ferrule and the rod has a very elegant look, nicely offset with all the intermediates.Having said there seems to be no damage, there's no saying this rod was always cast very gently, hardly ever into a headwind and in all probability *never* double hauled. Tony I had a similar expirience once. I was asked to re-finish a japanese rodwith loose ferrules. The cane was tapered, by the looks of it with ahatchet, and the ferrules was THIN brass, chromed. A real cheapo. But: nosigns of damage to either cane or ferrules, even the chrome was intact.Therod is still being fished. I don't now how, but it works. Strange world,isn't it? Best regards Carsten from wfmack@evansville.net Mon Dec 29 04:07:54 1997 world.evansville.netvia sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) ()(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: Season Greetings Carsten Jorgensen wrote: ----------This is it. In two hours the guests will arrive, and the big X-mas dinner,gift unwrapping and general turbulence will start. Wife is doing all kindsof wonderous things and stuff in the kitchen, children being overexicited.Its is time to do something relaxing, which is why I have fled to thecomputer. Aah, the sooothing sound from the PC`s cooling fan is relaxing. Now isthetime to wish All Listmembers a Merry Christmas and a Rodbuilding NewYear.Thanks to all of You who has contributed to make the List entertainingandeducating, Your good advice and, sometimes, weird sence of humour.(Stillcan't figure out the Grit thing, must be something wrong in myupbringing). Gotta go now, wife demanding my presence in the kitchen. Best regards Carsten JorgensenCarsten--Merry Christmas. Don't worry about not undertsanding the gritsthing. No ne above the Mason Dixon line (and you are WELL above it) isexpected to undertsand them. Bill Mack from wfmack@evansville.net Mon Dec 29 04:07:56 1997 world.evansville.netvia sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) ()(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: It apears that the motto is "when in doubt - get him somethingwith a fish on it". _The Bamboo rod and how to build it_ ( I've wanted it for some time, tocomparer to Wayne's book, which I already have. The theory being that Iftwopeople tell me something very smiler I might understand it...) A santa fisherman ornament Two tea shirts. One from a fly shop in south Florida,the other from aShop inNew Orleans, that says "Reel Men play with their Flys." One Barns and Noble Gift certificate for a copy of _The Best of thePlainingForum_ (I've been threatening to buy one from "the anglers art" but wastold towait till Santa got here. when I tried to order it through B & N Today Iwastold they didn't have it listed, so I ended up going through "Anglers"anyway.) Oh yes. Finished rebuilding a little 6'3" using deflection to get theactionright. I tried it out monday and boy is it nice. It looks like hell. Lot's ofexperimenting on it. First glue job (so you can guess what that lookslike.),First silk thread wraps, new winding cheek made of a part I found in aHardware store. Wrapped it burgundy, gold and white. Only after I got itdonedid I realize it was the colors of the uniform of FSU. Have a happy new year. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.netMy wife ordered me a Sherline lathe (not here yet), and I'm done towithin .006" on filing the butt side of my forms as of this morning, SoI'm getting there. Bill Mack from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Mon Dec 29 08:22:44 1997 09:22:20 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: Xmas Gifts Survey How about a Lie-Nielsen scraper, Garrison's book, and a bottle of single malt. Merry XmasJon from Htollvr@aol.com Mon Dec 29 08:56:34 1997 Subject: Please get me off of here! Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. But my husband and I were investigatingthislist and he wanted to subscribe, so we did so under my screen name, sinceitwas the only one we had. When we realized the volume that this list wouldgenerate, we created his own screen name and now he is subscribed underthat.Now I cannot get off this list. I have tried UNSUBSCRIBE RODMAKERS,twice, Ihave e-mailed the list manager, I have put a block on the e-mail andnothingworks. It's not that I don't like you guys, but I run a business and use thisscreen name, and all of this mail is becoming a problem for me. Pleasehelp! from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Dec 29 09:30:00 1997 Subject: Re[2]: Xmas Gifts Survey RO> How about a Lie-Nielsen scraper, Garrison's book, and a bottle ofRO> single malt. RO> Merry XmasRO> Jon What brand? Don B. from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Dec 29 09:35:51 1997 Subject: Lathe work I have an old Atlas lathe that is a virtual duplicate of the one in Garrison'sbook. It has a 1 1/2 X 8 headstock spindle. I have not been able to find aheadstock Jacobs chuck, like the one in the book. The 5" 3 jaw chuck I haveisOK, but I'm sure the Jacobs style would be more accurate. Does anyoneknowwhere one might be available? from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Mon Dec 29 09:42:47 1997 10:42:28 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[3]: Xmas Gifts Survey Auchentoschen (sp?). My favorite lowland malt to complement the highland malt selection currently in place. ;-)Jon ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re[2]: Xmas Gifts Survey Author: at Internet-Mail RO> How about a Lie-Nielsen scraper, Garrison's book, and a bottle of RO> single malt. RO> Merry XmasRO> Jon What brand? Don B. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Dec 29 09:43:24 1997 Mon, 29 Dec 1997 23:42:07 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Xmas Gifts Survey On Mon, 29 Dec 1997 mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: How about a Lie-Nielsen scraper, Garrison's book, and a bottle of single malt. Merry XmasJon That's about as good as it gets....maybe two bottles? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Mon Dec 29 10:01:58 1997 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: Re: WAYNE At 06:26 PM 12/26/97 -0800, you wrote:Wayne I've tried emailing you to your email address for the last three weeksabout that oven shell you were going to send me and am assuming becauseyou haven't answered me that you haven't received my massages thatmaybethis way will work. Did you receive my address and when can I expect youto ship it to me and the bill for the oven shell and shipping, sorry guys for using the list but this maybe my only resort. Patrick Coffey Good Luck!Trout Grouche-mail: jerry.snider@uc.edu from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Mon Dec 29 10:17:31 1997 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey Two Santa fly fishing Christmas tree ornaments. (he appears to be using acane rod!)_The Best of the Planing Form_. Very nice book. I now want to try tomake oneof those spiral rods.. (Is this the "dark" side of rodmaking?)- Jerry Ballardballard@zen.wes.army.mil from vjwilson@micron.net Mon Dec 29 10:49:49 1997 Subject: Re: got kicked off? haven't had my mailbox clogged with rodmakers stuff for afew days. miss it. was i kicked off for some reason?leonard in idaho from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Dec 29 11:14:03 1997 Subject: Re[4]: Xmas Gifts Survey RO> Auchentoschen (sp?). My favorite lowland malt to complement theRO> highland malt selection currently in place. ;-)RO> Jon I haven't tried that one. Is it peaty like Laphroaig or more like aGlenlivet? Whatever - do enjoy it out of the "old tin cup". Don PS - Sorry for the bandwidth. from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Mon Dec 29 11:27:18 1997 12:27:00 -0600Received: from ccMail by svm.vetmed.wisc.edu (ccMail Linkto SMTP R8.10.00) Subject: Re[5]: Xmas Gifts Survey Whoa, no! I think of Laphroig as at the extreme end of the smokiness/peaty spectrum. It is different than Glenlivet (to me at least) in that it doesn't have a single flavor which overruns your palate. Thus, I can savor the intermingled flavors in it. Its worth a try. Especially if you like to keep a number of malts in your liquor cabinet to taste and sample. Also, its one of the few single malts that has a screw cap. Thus, it will also go well with a bag of Cheetos up on the tracks.Cheers.Jon ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re[4]: Xmas Gifts Survey Author: at Internet-Mail RO> Auchentoschen (sp?). My favorite lowland malt to complement the RO> highland malt selection currently in place. ;-)RO> Jon I haven't tried that one. Is it peaty like Laphroaig or more like a Glenlivet? Whatever - do enjoy it out of the "old tin cup". Don PS - Sorry for the bandwidth. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Dec 29 11:47:45 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe work TSmithwick wrote: I have an old Atlas lathe that is a virtual duplicate of the one inGarrison'sbook. It has a 1 1/2 X 8 headstock spindle. I have not been able to find aheadstock Jacobs chuck, like the one in the book. The 5" 3 jaw chuck Ihave isOK, but I'm sure the Jacobs style would be more accurate. Does anyoneknowwhere one might be available? Tom: There's an outfit in Chicago (I think) that has parts for the old Atlaslathes.Will look the address up when I get back to the shop. Right now adding alabel toa new rod but that should not take long. (Famous last words!)George from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon Dec 29 12:19:44 1997 0000 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey hmmm.....i got a new block plane, "Best of the Planing Form", "Classic andAntique FFing Tackle" by A.J. Cambell, a nice new workbench for thebasement, Trophy Rivers, 2 Robert Traver books, and (not FFing related) anew computer..... hope everyone else had a great holiday!!! BTW.....for anyone who cares, i redid my page (again)....LOTS ofrodbuilding links.....some i haven't seen posted on other pages..... Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Mon Dec 29 14:05:19 1997 15:04:52 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: New tempering oven design- best way to post? I have waded into bamboo rodmaking as I seem to be strongly drawn to this art. Don't ask me why but I'm having fun. I read all of the archives (whew!), have Wayne's book and tapes (great resource, Wayne; you have my thanks) and am fairly well on the way to getting the steel forms and other necessary tools made (thanks and a big tip of the hat to Thomas Penrose for his very detailed and extremely helpful webpage on steel form construction). My only regret has been that as a newbie I have little or nothing to contribute in return for the terrific information sources provided a tempering oven I came up with which is based on information I have absorbed from the various rodmaking resources. The construction is very simple. I built it for $45 (not including the cost of the heat gun and I had some scrap lumber and fiberglass insulation around; so it probably costs about $65 to make). It seems to have very even heating thoughout. The measured temperaturegradient (tested at 364 degrees F; a randomly chosen temp in the range of bamboo tempering) was zero. This was measured at both ends and the middle of the tempering chamber which all registered exactly 364 degrees in this test using a good quality candy thermometer.It is a forced air design which uses a heat gun like the bamboo bazooka described in the Planing Form. However, I think it has some advantages (at least theoretical) over that design and would be of value to other beginners like myself. My question at this time is.... What is the best way to post this description. The description and construction instructions are somewhat long, also there is a schematic diagram which will not go into email and would have to be an attachment or rendered as ASCII art (yuck!). I don't have a webpage to post it on. Can anyone give me any pointers (?) as I don't want to clog up the list unless that is the best way. Thanks.Jon McAnulty from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Dec 29 14:28:05 1997 PAA20779 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 15:28:05-0500 Subject: Re: New tempering oven design- best way to post? Jon scan it or convert it and make it a jpeg and send as an attachment.If you have a drawing program you can output it as a jpeg also. Chris On Mon, 29 Dec 97 14:05:31 -0600, mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: I have waded into bamboo rodmaking as I seem to be strongly drawn to this art. Don't ask me why but I'm having fun. I read all of the archives (whew!), have Wayne's book and tapes (great resource, Wayne; you have my thanks) and am fairly well on the way to getting the steel forms and other necessary tools made (thanks and a big tip of the hat to Thomas Penrose for his very detailed and extremely helpfulwebpage on steel form construction). My only regret has been that as a newbie I have little or nothing to contribute in return for the terrific information sources provided a tempering oven I came up with which is based on information I have absorbed from the various rodmaking resources. The construction is very simple. I built it for $45 (not including the cost of the heat gun and I had some scrap lumber and fiberglass insulation around; so it probably costs about $65 to make). It seems to have very even heating thoughout. The measured temperaturegradient (tested at 364 degrees F; a randomly chosen temp in the range of bamboo tempering) was zero. This was measured at both ends and the middle of the tempering chamber which all registered exactly 364 degrees in this test using a good quality candy thermometer.It is a forced air design which uses a heat gun like the bamboo bazooka described in the Planing Form. However, I think it has some advantages (at least theoretical) over that design and would be of value to other beginners like myself. My question at this time is.... What is the best way to post this description. The description and construction instructions are somewhat long, also there is a schematic diagram which will not go into email and would have to be an attachment or rendered as ASCIIart (yuck!). I don't have a webpage to post it on. Can anyone give me any pointers (?) as I don't want to clog up the list unless that is the best way. Thanks.Jon McAnulty Regards Chris from jfoster@gte.net Mon Dec 29 14:37:53 1997 Subject: Re: New tempering oven design- best way to post? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Jon To amend my offline mail , if the drawings are already in gif,jpeg formjust send them to me as an attatchment, much easier.. Jerry from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Dec 29 16:19:45 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey In a message dated 12/29/97 4:20:59 PM, you wrote: If it is, then I guess I must be Darth Vader. I still can't explain why thethings perform like they do, but there is no question that the Force is withthem. from mrj@seanet.com Mon Dec 29 17:54:45 1997 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA21768 for Subject: Re: Please get me off of here! reply with unsubscribe "your name without the quotes" in the body of themessage.Note that this is adifferent addressLISTPROC@mail.wustl.edu -----Original Message----- Subject: Please get me off of here! Sorry, I don't mean to be rude. But my husband and I were investigatingthislist and he wanted to subscribe, so we did so under my screen name,sinceitwas the only one we had. When we realized the volume that this listwouldgenerate, we created his own screen name and now he is subscribed underthat.Now I cannot get off this list. I have tried UNSUBSCRIBE RODMAKERS,twice,Ihave e-mailed the list manager, I have put a block on the e-mail andnothingworks. It's not that I don't like you guys, but I run a business and usethisscreen name, and all of this mail is becoming a problem for me. Pleasehelp! from FlyfishT@aol.com Mon Dec 29 17:57:41 1997 Subject: Any PA rod makers? Is there anybody on this list who lives in the Lancaster, PA, area? I'm justgetting started making rods and I'd like to spend an evening with someone,watching them work. Is there anybody out there (local) who would bewilling tolet me come to their shop and watch? from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Dec 29 18:40:05 1997 Subject: RE:Any PA rod makers? RO>Is there anybody on this list who lives in the Lancaster, PA, area? I'mjustRO>getting started making rods and I'd like to spend an evening withsomeone,RO>watching them work. Is there anybody out there (local) who would bewillingRO>let me come to their shop and watch? George Mauer (SP?) up north of Allentown would be your best bet, I thinkhe offered a cane rod building course for many years. I'm out in Los Angeles - so no personal details to offer you. Don Burns from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 29 20:34:04 1997 Subject: Re: Xmas Gifts Survey That's great! You can never have enough 7'6" 4wt rods, ever! Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 29 20:48:03 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe Work While looking through an old machinist handbook I inherited from anuncle, they suggest whale oil as the most superior of metal cuttinglubricants. And me stuck in Michigan! ;^) Brian from gwr@seanet.com Mon Dec 29 20:49:21 1997 SAA04169 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 1997 18:49:17 Subject: Re: Any PA rod makers? Hi, I'm from Lancaster, though living in Seattle now, and also a newbiewhen it comes to cane. Don't know anybody real local for you. In additionto Mr. Mauer though, I think Walt Carpenter has his shop up in Benton, close tothe fly shop the Becks used to own. Perhaps he'd be willing to chat. Just curious, which fly shop do you frequent? Russ At 06:46 PM 12/29/97 EST, you wrote:Is there anybody on this list who lives in the Lancaster, PA, area? I'mjustgetting started making rods and I'd like to spend an evening withsomeone,watching them work. Is there anybody out there (local) who would bewilling tolet me come to their shop and watch? from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Dec 29 21:22:43 1997 Subject: Re: Newcommer and about silk lines Christophe - Thanks for your input.I too like the parabolic actions of P&M, htey strongly influenced one ofthe US's premier rodmakers, the late Paul Young, in designing hisparabolic series rods. P&M rods turn up for sale over on this side ofthe pond not infrequently, and they don't sell for that much, either. Brian from jczimny@dol.net Mon Dec 29 21:32:00 1997 Subject: Re: Any PA rod makers? I'm 30 miles south of you on 41.John Zimny from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Dec 29 22:17:09 1997 (may be forged)) 0000 (209.140.67.118) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Xmas Gifts Survey Sit back,put your feet up ,look at the scraper, open the Garrison, and havea wee dram of the good stuff---never mind---wouldn't want you to end upinthe gutter,so i'll have the wee dram. You lucky dog! George Hinde ghinde@inconnect.com---------- Greys River Rod Co.From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: Re: Re[2]: Xmas Gifts Survey Date: Monday, December 29, 1997 8:42 AM On Mon, 29 Dec 1997 mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: How about a Lie-Nielsen scraper, Garrison's book, and a bottle of single malt. Merry XmasJon That's about as good as it gets....maybe two bottles? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 30 00:15:46 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA18143 +0000 Subject: Re: Newcommer and about silk lines Maybe,.....This is kind of a chicken and egg thing. Young was buildingcomplex parabolic tapers prior to WW II. His 1927 catalog listed 4 modelswith what he called "compound tapers" that some writers view asforerunnersof the Para 15s 17s etc. Ritz writes in "A Flyfishers Life" that the termparabolic was first used commercially in 1937 (when Ritz returned toEuropeafter 10 years in the U.S.). In 1936 there was some cross fertilization(Ritz and Payne discussed and compared rods). Ritz, Creusevaut and crewdid not perfect the Pezon et' Michel PPP Tapers until 1949.(Again,according to Ritz in "A Flyfishers Life") Payne introduced Parabolic tapers in this country in his pre WW II catalog.It is interesting to note that Ritz wrote the dedication to the chapter onrods in "A Flyfishers Life" as follows: "I dedicate the Chapters on tackleto the House of Hardy and to Jim Payne, who have been my inspiration." I fish a Fario Club and a Super Colorado PPP and I have had the pleasure ofcasting a couple of Young rods (though never a Payne). The Young tapersare much more complex and require (imho) a higher degree of castingskillsthan the Pezon et' Michel tapers. The point of all this is that from a historical perspective, a good casecan be made that Young and others independantly developed similar taperconcepts. There is evidence that both Ritz and Young interacted with andadmired Payne, but in terms of chronology, Young appears to have beenexperimenting with complex tapers prior to Ritz. (Remember, Ritz wasassembling rods from disparate parts in the 30s...Young was planningtapers from culm to glued up rod as early as 1927) At 03:20 AM 12/30/97 +0000, you wrote:Christophe - Thanks for your input.I too like the parabolic actions of P&M, htey strongly influenced one ofthe US's premier rodmakers, the late Paul Young, in designing hisparabolic series rods. P&M rods turn up for sale over on this side ofthe pond not infrequently, and they don't sell for that much, either. Brian Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Dec 30 05:18:14 1997 Subject: Banty Rods Does anyone have any experience with making so-called "Banty" rods out ofthemid and tip sections of a 3 piece rod? I am curious about line sizes of theresulting Banty in relation to the original rod. Thanks. --Rich from tom@cet-inc.com Tue Dec 30 06:45:23 1997 0000 Subject: Re: Any PA rod makers? I'm in the Harrisburg area. Learned rod building from George Maurer lastyear and am only working on my eighth rod, but would be willing to sharewhat I have learned. Tom Whittlehome phone 652-6545office 541-0622 from rfrank@javanet.com Tue Dec 30 07:51:56 1997 IAA29274 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:51:54 as4100a.javanet.com (8.8.6/8.7) with SMTP id IAA07427 for Subject: Henschler rod for sale Hi, I have a beautiful, mint condition, 7' 5" for # 5 Henschler rod forsale. It's a 2 piece with one tip - don't believe Henschler makes twotip rods - fast dry fly action. This is a rod of exceptional fit andfinish. Scans of the rod can be viewed at http://www.javanet.com/~rfrank/rod/henschler.htm Contact me off list for price and additional details. DamnYankeeClave '98 richard Richard Frankrfrank@javanet.com***************************DamnYankeeClave'98 Pittsburg, NH June 12- 14 *************************** from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Dec 30 08:10:36 1997 Subject: Re: New tempering oven design- best way to post? At 14:05 29/12/97 -0600, Jon wrote: I have waded into bamboo rodmaking as I seem to be strongly drawn to this art. snipThe construction is very simple. I built it for $45 (not including the cost of the heat gun and I had some scrap lumber and fiberglass insulation around; so it probably costs about $65 to make). It seems to have very even heating thoughout. The measured temperaturegradient (tested at 364 degrees F; a randomly chosen temp in the range of bamboo tempering) was zero. This was measured at both ends and the middle of the tempering chamber which all registered exactly 364 degrees in this test using a good quality candy thermometer.It is a forced air design which uses a heat gun like the bamboo bazooka described in the Planing Form. However, I think it has some advantages (at least theoretical) over that design and would be of value to other beginners like myself. My question at this time is.... What is the best way to post this description. snip Jon, I would suggested that you consider posting the idea both to the list andto Ron Barch @ the Planning Form. I know that Ron is always looking foritems to publish. As you mentioned the Planning Form earlier, I expectthatyou have the address - if not, send a note.Further, the list is a great resource, but is a limited to those folksthat are there @ the time. The Planning Form reaches a much largeraudiencethan the list. I know a lot of builders who are not "wired" yet andseveral who were have toured the list and find the information tedious. Ifthe information is on a piece of paper, you may be able to enforce acopywrite. Don from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Tue Dec 30 08:18:16 1997 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 30 Dec 1997 09:17:42 -0500 Subject: A Garbolino Question I'm sorry to waste bandwidth on a non FF question, but... I have justlearned about Garbolino Poles and looking for a source to buy. Doesanyone know of a US distributor or someone who will ship to the states.Also, if anyone has any experience fishine these (especuially our UKfriends) I would appreciate being contacted off list for some buyingadvice. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Dec 30 09:07:13 1997 Subject: Re[6]: Xmas Gifts Survey RO> Whoa, no! I think of Laphroig as at the extreme end of theRO> smokiness/peaty spectrum. It is different than Glenlivet (to me atRO> least) in that it doesn't have a single flavor which overruns yourRO> palate. Thus, I can savor the intermingled flavors in it. Its worth aRO> try. Especially if you like to keep a number of malts in your liquorRO> cabinet to taste and sample. Also, its one of the few single maltsRO> that has a screw cap. Thus, it will also go well with a bag ofCheetosRO> up on the tracks.RO> Cheers.RO> Jon Not Cheetos - trail mix surely. Don Burns I drink to make other people interesting.--George Jean Nathan from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Dec 30 09:39:20 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA16940 for; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:44:42 GMT Subject: Re: Lathe books - was lathe work At 15:12 20/12/97 -0600, you wrote:John, I pulled out the Brownells gunsmithing catalog and looked for latheoperation books. They've got 3 listed, including "The Amateur's Lathe" detail, how to use your new lathe." plus "Profusely illustrated withphotos and drawings." Sounds like something you could get in the UK too.Has 224 pages and is $17.40 (US$). I just wish I knew a little bit more about a lathe myself - I think I'mgoing to buy the Chinese-made CenTech lathe and will no doubt find outthat it won't do something I'll need it to do. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com Anna got me exactly that, and others, for Christmas. Thank's Don You asked what particular feature is required. Whatever else you buy, DOgetyourself a Dixon type, quick change toolpost. That's NOT an ordinary fourway toolpost, but a proper drop-in then twist set of seperate toolholderswith fixed base that sits bolted to the cross-slide. It's a blessedrevelation. The unit will make all your jobs much easier. Having to set upeach tool before use is a total dog's breakfast of a business. Trust me - you NEED this. Anyone disagree? John Cooper (England) John Cooper from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Dec 30 09:39:47 1997 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA16973 for; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 15:44:59 GMT Subject: Re: Myford Lathe At 17:44 23/12/97 -0500, you wrote:Hi J.M., I saw your posts on the rodmakers listserve about your Myford lathe. Iamin the market for a lathe and was hoping you could give me the address &telephone number of Myford. Can you help? Thanks much. Randy Hicks 232 Isanti StreetDuluth, MN 55803U.S.A. Randy Hicks and the others who've enquired offlist, Myford's contact details are: Myford Lathes LimitedWilmot LaneChilwell RoadBeestonNottinghamNG9 1EREngland Telephone 115.925.4222Fax 115.943.1299 Happy new year everyone. John Cooper (England) from rfrank@javanet.com Tue Dec 30 09:56:59 1997 as4100a.javanet.com (8.8.6/8.7) with SMTP id KAA09530; Tue, 30 Dec Subject: Henschler sold The Henschler has been sold.Thanks for your inquiries DamnYankeeClave '98 richard Richard Frankrfrank@javanet.com***************************DamnYankeeClave'98 Pittsburg, NH June 12- 14 *************************** from FlyfishT@aol.com Tue Dec 30 10:12:30 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Any PA rod makers? Russ, I usually go to Evening Rise fly shop and sometimes to Toppehauken(spell?)Creek Outfitters in West Lawn, near Reading. Have you been to either ofthese? Tom N.FlyfishT from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Dec 30 10:12:38 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Myford Lathe just got a flyer from Woodcraft and they had a 2 foot myford lathe onsale for $299. Patrick ----------From: J.Cooper[SMTP:jcooper@interalpha.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 1997 7:39 AM Subject: Re: Myford Lathe At 17:44 23/12/97 -0500, you wrote:Hi J.M., I saw your posts on the rodmakers listserve about your Myford lathe.I amin the market for a lathe and was hoping you could give me theaddress &telephone number of Myford. Can you help? Thanks much. Randy Hicks 232 Isanti StreetDuluth, MN 55803U.S.A. Randy Hicks and the others who've enquired offlist, Myford's contact details are: Myford Lathes LimitedWilmot LaneChilwell RoadBeestonNottinghamNG9 1EREngland Telephone 115.925.4222Fax 115.943.1299 Happy new year everyone. John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Dec 30 10:13:40 1997 Subject: Re:RE: Lathe books - was lathe work RO>Anna got me exactly that, and others, for Christmas. Thank's Don RO>You asked what particular feature is required. Whatever else you buy,DO getRO>yourself a Dixon type, quick change toolpost. That's NOT an ordinaryfourRO>way toolpost, but a proper drop-in then twist set of seperatetoolholdersRO>with fixed base that sits bolted to the cross-slide. It's a blessedRO>revelation. The unit will make all your jobs much easier. Having to setupRO>each tool before use is a total dog's breakfast of a business. Trust me-RO>you NEED this. Anyone disagree? RO>John Cooper (England) John, Tell me what you think of the book - I'm thinking of buying a copy too.Thanks for the tool post idea, I guess I'll need all kinds of extrassoon after buying a lathe. Don B. from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Tue Dec 30 10:16:29 1997 Subject: List Stuff!!! Hello everyone, hope y'all had a great holidays. from the sounds of somegifts, it sounds like you sure did!!! A Couple-O-List-Items... :-) Regarding the typical "Please get me off this list" posts...first off, forsome time now, as soon as one of these messages come across the list, Ihave taken to immediately un-sub'ing them. I found much quicker thantrying to explain to them how to do it. Secondly, I would like to thankall of you who take the time to try and help these folks by responding tothem on the list. However, I have found that most of the time these folksaren't reading the list, even though they send in a plea for help ongetting off the list. It might be better if you respond to the persondirectly rather than the list. At least that way we stand a better chanceof them actually reading the help they were so desperately requesting!!! ;-) The other item is yet another plea to help make the archives thatwebmeister Jerry Foster maintains more manageable. When you respondto thelist regarding another's post, please delete out all the original poster'squoted text that is not needed in your post. When you respond to the list,most mailers will automatically include the whole message from theoriginalposter. Most times all that text is not needed to get your point across.It also makes going through the archives tedious, not to mention all theextra storage space it takes up in Jerry's archives. There are ways toquickly delete quoted text from your message, as well as settings on mostmailers to not include quoted text at all. If anyone would like someassistance in setting up you mailers, please don't hesitate ask. Wishing everyone a Happy New Year. Several folks in the Mid-Missouriareaare planning on starting the New Year off right by all gathering for sometrout fishing and homemade chilli on New Year's day. Sounds like a greatway to start off the New Year... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS ListguySt. Louis, Mo. from flyfisher@rhco.com Tue Dec 30 10:26:23 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Archives Maybe this has been talked about already, but has anyone thought ofcollecting some of the posts from the archives and consolidating theinformation into something similar to "The Best of the Planing Form"? Iknow that last year I read through all the archives and found very goodinformation. I think that the archives are great source of invaluableinformation that would help many new builders. Just a thought. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Dec 30 10:40:22 1997 Subject: Re: Lathe books - was lathe work -----Original Message----- You asked what particular feature is required. Whatever else you buy, DOgetyourself a Dixon type, quick change toolpost. That's NOT an ordinary fourway toolpost, but a proper drop-in then twist set of seperate toolholderswith fixed base that sits bolted to the cross-slide. It's a blessedrevelation. The unit will make all your jobs much easier. Having to set upeach tool before use is a total dog's breakfast of a business. Trust me - you NEED this. Anyone disagree? John Cooper (England) John, Perhaps you can tell me a little about the Dixon model tool post. I haveseen Dorian and Armstrong quick change posts and holders as described inmyMSC catalog, some of the holders are pretty expensive! Purhaps Dixon is abetter deal? I use a lot of cutter - dozens, so the price of holders if Iused them could be prohibitive. Happy New Year, Ted G. from gwr@seanet.com Tue Dec 30 10:44:00 1997 IAA04567 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 08:43:57 Subject: Re: Any PA rod makers? Tom, Yes, I know them both. I bought my first cane rod - an Orvisimpregnated that needed a re-wrap from the Evening Rise and Tulpehockencarried a couple of my plastic poles for the year that I had a friend - JoeEndy, if you know him - who worked there. These days, when I'm in town Iusually go to Trout Run Sports in Ephrata. The tackle end of the shop isrun by an avid, though antiquated, fly fisherman best known as "Ye OldeColonial Angler of 1770." Quite a character! Russ At 11:07 AM 12/30/97 EST, you wrote:Russ, I usually go to Evening Rise fly shop and sometimes to Toppehauken(spell?)Creek Outfitters in West Lawn, near Reading. Have you been to either ofthese? Tom N.FlyfishT from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Dec 30 10:59:13 1997 "rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu" Subject: Re: Silk Lines Questions John A. Whitaker wrote: I'm still experimenting, there isn't anything to be impressed withyet.Your help in finding a recipe for finishing would be great. So far,youare the only promising lead. There doesn't seem to be anythingwrittenon this and I am just trudging along blindly. I be honest in that I am relatively new to FF (almost two years) and have only handled two'real'silk lines. I am not familiar with the diameters you stated and could use some guidance. Your help is greatly appreciated! John, The early vacuum treated "oiled" lines were placed in "boiled"linseed oil (not the modern "boiled" which simply has a drier added, butprobably what we call "stand oil", that is, linseed oil placed in aclear container in sunlight for a long period, the "foots" separatewell). Oxidation of the finish continued even while in use, causinggumminess and sticking.The later "oiled" finish used a mixture of Tung oil and Kauri gumvarnish, or just Tung oil. I get excellent results in restoring dry silklines, totally bereft of finish, by the liberal, repeated application ofTung oil. Perhaps I would get even better results by placing the linesin a tank and pulling a vacuum; I haven't tried it.As for line diameters, the old letter system was diameter based, thenew number system is weight based. What we really need is a system thatgives both, since if I tell you the weight of a silk line is a "6", andyou try it on a rod that cast a plastic 6 well, you will bedisappointed. The silk line will be half the diameter of the plastic andwill cut the wind much better, on the other hand, the plastic line willride higher in the water and not load the rod as much on the lift. IMHO,the only way to balance a rod and line is trial and error over water.That said, here are some specific gravities for some lines:Line Specific Gravity-------------------------------------------Jones President 1.289Ashaway Crandall 1.362Ashaway Amer. Finish 1.435Ashaway Nylon 0.98Gladding Otselic 1.346 Line sizes were measured in letters, "I" thru "AAAA", with "I" startingat .022 (officially, but most people use .020), "H" at .025, and then.005 increase for the rest.Remember, the line is measured before being stretched in the line loftand finished, so diameters would vary; "D" for example might be .043 - .048. Ashaway HEH6' H, 9' H-E, 60' E, 9' E-H, 6' H Ashaway HEG6'H, 4' H-E, 15'E, 10'E-G, 85'G If anyone has a scanner, I will mail them a photocopy of the SA chart ofAircel & Aircel Supreme lines with both weight in grains for eachsection and both numeric and letter designations. They say an HEH isequivalent to a DT-4-F. Scientific Angler Aircel Supreme (ca. 1963)22"H(4.9gr), 8'H-E(26gr), 22'E(94gr) = 30' 120gr with an H of .030, anE of .042 and the weight of E = 4.2gr/ft. "The Practical Fly Fisherman" by A.J. McClane - has a number of tapers."Field Book of Fresh-Water Angling" by John Alden Knight - great work,good description of rodmaking and silk lines."The Complete Book of Fishing Tackle" by Larry Koller - has some linetapers. Best regards,ReedP.S. - I'll through this on the list, others might be interested. from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Dec 30 11:20:21 1997 Subject: Re: Newcommer and about silk lines Michael Leitheiser wrote: Maybe,.....This is kind of a chicken and egg thing. Young wasbuildingcomplex parabolic tapers prior to WW II. His 1927 catalog listed 4modelswith what he called "compound tapers" that some writers view asforerunnersof the Para 15s 17s etc. Ritz writes in "A Flyfishers Life" that thetermparabolic was first used commercially in 1937 (when Ritz returned toEuropeafter 10 years in the U.S.). In 1936 there was some crossfertilization(Ritz and Payne discussed and compared rods). Ritz, Creusevaut andcrewdid not perfect the Pezon et' Michel PPP Tapers until 1949.(Again,according to Ritz in "A Flyfishers Life") Payne introduced Parabolic tapers in this country in his pre WW IIcatalog.It is interesting to note that Ritz wrote the dedication to thechapter onrods in "A Flyfishers Life" as follows: "I dedicate the Chapters ontackleto the House of Hardy and to Jim Payne, who have been my inspiration." I fish a Fario Club and a Super Colorado PPP and I have had thepleasure ofcasting a couple of Young rods (though never a Payne). The Youngtapersare much more complex and require (imho) a higher degree of castingskillsthan the Pezon et' Michel tapers. The point of all this is that from a historical perspective, a goodcasecan be made that Young and others independantly developed similartaperconcepts. There is evidence that both Ritz and Young interacted withandadmired Payne, but in terms of chronology, Young appears to have beenexperimenting with complex tapers prior to Ritz. (Remember, Ritz wasassembling rods from disparate parts in the 30s...Young was planningtapers from culm to glued up rod as early as 1927) Michael,Actually, the Castle Connell (or Castle Connell Kick) taper was madein Ireland ( from wood) in the 1850s, and in Canada by Joe Dalzell in the1880-1890 period, in cane. This was a parabolic action. My wife'sgrandfather made such a rod in NS, probably in the 20's, and it isfascinating to cast; it will strip line from the reel on the shoot, butit is very top-heavy and unpleasant to use for short, or delicate,casts.Did Young get his idea from the Castle Connell? Did Leonard, whoA.J. Campbell cites as the first advocate of the parabolic?Best regards,Reed from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Dec 30 11:22:05 1997 Subject: Re: Archives -----Original Message----- Subject: Archives Maybe this has been talked about already, but has anyone thought ofcollecting some of the posts from the archives and consolidating theinformation into something similar to "The Best of the Planing Form"? Iknow that last year I read through all the archives and found very goodinformation. I think that the archives are great source of invaluableinformation that would help many new builders. Just a thought. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com Brian, I have wondered about that myself. I put in a number of hours gleaning agreat deal of information from the archives, but many people might nothavethe time. If anyone comes up with a format, I'd certainly be happy to helpwith the nuts-and-bolts work , although it might be presumptious of me tohelp since I am so new to the List. Ted G. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Dec 30 12:20:49 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 30Dec 1997 13:22:22 -0500 Subject: Help... I am trying to get in touch with John Gooding and anyone else that ordered a splice block from me. I apologize for taking the bandwidth. I had a computer problem and lost some customer records. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 30 13:20:04 1997 Subject: Re: Newcommer and about silk lines Cool! My opinion of PHY just went up even more!There seems to have been quite a lot of parallel invention going onduring this era of the machine age. Once saw a picture of a flaminggizmo in a gas company ad that Paul used to flame cane in one pass.Wayne identified it as "the ring of fire," and says that it never madethe move to Traverse from Detroit. A shame, because the thing lookedawesome!Thanks for the historical info> Brian from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Dec 30 14:45:20 1997 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA20178 for; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 21:41:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Re:RE: Lathe books - was lathe work ----------Don wrote Tell me what you think of the book - I'm thinking of buying a copy too.Thanks for the tool post idea, I guess I'll need all kinds of extrassoon after buying a lathe. Don B. -Don If we're talking Myford Series 7, You better talk to Your bankmangerbeforebuying extras. This is pro stuff and VERY expensive. It allso happens to bethe best. If still talking Series 7, I can snail-mail You a xerox copy oftheir accessory brochure. Just tell me your home address, and it will be best regards Carsten from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Tue Dec 30 15:16:08 1997 Subject: RE: Myford Lathe At 08:12 AM 12/30/97 -0800, Patrick wrote: just got a flyer from Woodcraft and they had a 2 foot myford lathe onsale for $299. Patrick, Is that a wood turning lathe? I believe the metal lathes are in the $2000+range here in the States. Later,Johnny ------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from jczimny@dol.net Tue Dec 30 17:16:55 1997 Subject: Re: Myford Lathe I hate to be the to inform you. But, new, Myford metal lathes are $4500plus. That, ofcourse, does not include tooling. Which can add half againto the price. But, they are so-o-o-o-o sexy!John from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Dec 30 17:18:07 1997 +0100 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id AAA20813 for; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 00:11:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Myford Lathe ---------- just got a flyer from Woodcraft and they had a 2 foot myford lathe onsale for $299. Patrick, Is that a wood turning lathe? I believe the metal lathes are in the$2000+range here in the States. Later,Johnny ------------------------Johnny Johnson Johnny I dont know about the actual prices in the States, but here in Denmark aMyford Super 7 (with Norton Gearbox and some extras) was around 4000USdollars when I bought mine (used) some 9 years ago. I dont think Woodcraftwould sell a metal turning lathe ? Best regards Carsten from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Dec 30 17:34:46 1997 Subject: The Caneotine After all these years of talking about doing side by side comparisons -finally The Caneotine. The Grayrock Institue of Testing and Destructionhasreleased it standard bamboo testing device. It looks something like a bagelslicer mounted to a board. The idea is to have a standard device andmethodsto test the differences between heat treating methods and to sample thestrength of bamboo. The operation is as follows - a set of 'v"'s is spacedat6" appart - mid way a slide assembly rests on top of the bamboo samplewhichis uniformily planed to .125". Then the weight is applied to the top of theslide assembly - any bar bell set will work - weight is added as required - Test standard that are being considered are:1 1/4 # deflection distance2 1/2# deflection distance5# deflection distanceall out break test So in the future when the benefits of heat treating come up or when aproblem is suspected with bamboo - The Caneotine lay in wait. Wayne from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Dec 30 17:45:21 1997 Subject: Re[3]: Lathe books - was lathe work DB>> Tell me what you think of the book - I'm thinking of buying a copy too.DB>> Thanks for the tool post idea, I guess I'll need all kinds of extrasDB>> soon after buying a lathe. RO>If we're talking Myford Series 7, You better talk to Your bankmangerbeforeRO>buying extras. This is pro stuff and VERY expensive. It allso happens tobeRO>the best. If still talking Series 7, I can snail-mail You a xerox copy ofRO>their accessory brochure. Just tell me your home address, and it willbeRO>sent in a week (when my holiday is over) Carsten, I'm buying a Central Machinery 7" x 10" lathe - dirt cheap Chinesemachine, but it will do the job. About 1/2 the cost of a completeSherline lathe and it will do threads too. (18 - 52 tpi?) It comes quitecomplete - just add a cutting tool. A machine reviewer was impressedwith the quality and features too. But I could use a good lathe book and will be interested in JohnCooper's feedback in that area. Happy New Year to all, Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Dec 30 17:52:53 1997 Subject: re[4]: Lathe books - was lathe work RO>If we're talking Myford Series 7, You better talk to Your bankmangerbeforeRO>buying extras. This is pro stuff and VERY expensive. It allso happens tobeRO>the best. If still talking Series 7, I can snail-mail You a xerox copy ofRO>their accessory brochure. Just tell me your home address, and it willbeRO>sent in a week (when my holiday is over) RO>best regards RO>Carsten Carsten, I forgot in my earlier reply that the Central Machinery 7" x 10" latheis a metal-working lathe and lists at $399.99 and is discounted to$349.99 several times a year. Sold by Harbor Freight Tools. (search fortheir web site) Works off 115 VAC single phase power. (maybe 220VACalso?) Sometimes called the "Asian" lathe elsewhere. Don from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Dec 30 18:23:15 1997 TAA14388 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:23:18-0500 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Wayne That sounds nice but not interesting. I think for Grayrock we needto "enhance" it a bit. Let's set the strips up like little catapults andmeasurehow far they will throw one of Spikes Fries. This will test the"resilience" ofthe cane after treating more than simple deflection. Regards Chris from gjflyfsh@juno.com Tue Dec 30 18:24:56 1997 19:24:34 EST Subject: Re: Banty Rods Rich I have built two of the rods you are inquiring about. One was definitely from an HI and the other one most probably HI. Really easy to do andboth fished well. Did not know orignal line sizes. Although castingdistance was not long the rods are enjoyable. I taped guides on firstbefore stripping the varnish one cast a five DT very well but didn't likea four weight. The other I could use a four weight but it liked a five abit better. So the answere IMHO is to just try lines to see if you likewhat you will end up with. Hope this helps.jerry from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Dec 30 18:49:09 1997 Subject: Re: The Caneotine 717949CE10171DFDB06385F8" --------------717949CE10171DFDB06385F8 Chris -That sounds like a great suggestion. But there's no reason we can't useboth measurements to arrive at a single numerical value something alongthe order of:Spud Slingage# of unopened 750 ml bottles supported before breakage --------------717949CE10171DFDB06385F8 Chris - can't use both measurements to arrive at a single numerical valuesomethingalong the order of: Spud Slingage # of unopened 750 ml bottles supported beforebreakage --------------717949CE10171DFDB06385F8-- from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Dec 30 19:04:12 1997 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Chris -The interesting part is the result of the tests that we ran today - theresults would surprise quite a few. Anyway - it beats slamming a garagedooron a whole culm as Larry B had visions of. Speaking of Spike's - Nancy themanager and cordial host of trout bums is getting married tomorrow night.So -after much arm twisting I'm headed to Grayrock tomorrow. Think about theother...... Wayne from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Dec 30 19:17:28 1997 UAA15321 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:17:32-0500 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Wayne Tell her I am heart broken! Chris 30 Dec 1997 19:59:41 EST, Wayne Catt wrote: Chris -The interesting part is the result of the tests that we ran today - theresults would surprise quite a few. Anyway - it beats slamming a garagedooron a whole culm as Larry B had visions of. Speaking of Spike's - Nancy themanager and cordial host of trout bums is getting married tomorrownight. So -after much arm twisting I'm headed to Grayrock tomorrow. Think abouttheother...... Wayne Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Dec 30 19:19:05 1997 UAA15355 for ; Tue, 30 Dec 1997 20:19:09-0500 Subject: Re: The Caneotine We get Mike B and we can do Kegs of home brew. It wouldbe an interesting complement to the test. Tue, 30 Dec 1997 19:46:59 -0500, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Chris -That sounds like a great suggestion. But there's no reason we can't useboth measurements to arrive at a single numerical value something alongthe order of:Spud Slingage# of unopened 750 ml bottles supported before breakage Regards Chris from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Dec 30 19:37:25 1997 Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:37:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: The Caneotine On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, Wayne Catt wrote: Chris -The interesting part is the result of the tests that we ran today - theresults would surprise quite a few. Anyway - it beats slamming a garagedooron a whole culm as Larry B had visions of. Speaking of Spike's - Nancythemanager and cordial host of trout bums is getting married tomorrownight. So -after much arm twisting I'm headed to Grayrock tomorrow. Think abouttheother...... Wayne What kind of results were you getting? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Dec 30 20:16:27 1997 Subject: Re: Banty Rods In a message dated 97-12-30 06:23:03 EST, you write: RichHave made one, from 9-0 Heddon which I think was a Bill StanleyFavorite.Did so because of it's smallish cross section for a 9 footer. Tho slim andtrim, is still a bit to fast and strong for my comfort, and works best withaDT-5 when fishing. Not sure of the original line recomendation, but itseemedto work ok with a DT-6. The original was a beater with taped on guides,etc.and I only lawn cast it before tear down for reconfiguration, so not surewhatit would have been like in actual fishing. Richard Tyree from lblan@provide.net Tue Dec 30 20:47:13 1997 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Good grief Wayne - a garage door? How very unscientific..... that was areference to the entire garage falling on the culm, ala the good judge'sriverboat. =8-) Larry Blan it beats slamming a garage door on a whole culm as Larry B had visionsof.Speaking of Spike's > Nancy the manager and cordial host of trout bums isgetting married tomorrow night. So - after >much arm twisting I'm headedtoGrayrock tomorrow. from lblan@provide.net Tue Dec 30 21:30:01 1997 Subject: Re: The Caneotine And for "Big Dog Strips", perhaps Spike's potato skins might provide amorevalid test. Larry Blan That sounds nice but not interesting. I think for Grayrock we needto "enhance" it a bit. Let's set the strips up like little catapults andmeasurehow far they will throw one of Spikes Fries. This will test the"resilience" ofthe cane after treating more than simple deflection. Regards Chris from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Tue Dec 30 22:25:23 1997 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA8448 +0000 Subject: Re: Newcommer and about silk lines Reed..Did you build or have built in the last year or so something close to apara 17? If so, how do you like it? Would love to cast one. I have cast one of A.J. Thramers 8 footers and think it is a combination ofa Castle Connell and a Young kind of action. Not nearly as tip heavy asyou describe but it is almost as if the rod unloads twice on the forwardstroke...a unique feeling. I think that second "unloading" is where the"kick taper" label comes from. Michael Leitheiser wrote: Maybe,.....This is kind of a chicken and egg thing. snippety snip snip.... Michael,Actually, the Castle Connell (or Castle Connell Kick) taper was madein Ireland ( from wood) in the 1850s, and in Canada by Joe Dalzell in the1880-1890 period, in cane. This was a parabolic action. My wife'sgrandfather made such a rod in NS, probably in the 20's, and it isfascinating to cast; it will strip line from the reel on the shoot, butit is very top-heavy and unpleasant to use for short, or delicate,casts.Did Young get his idea from the Castle Connell? Did Leonard, whoA.J. Campbell cites as the first advocate of the parabolic?Best regards,Reed Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Dec 31 04:45:41 1997 +0100 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA12768 for; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:44:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: re[4]: Lathe books - was lathe work ---Don wrote-------Carsten, I forgot in my earlier reply that the Central Machinery 7" x 10" latheis a metal-working lathe and lists at $399.99 and is discounted to$349.99 several times a year. Sold by Harbor Freight Tools. (search fortheir web site) Works off 115 VAC single phase power. (maybe 220VACalso?) Sometimes called the "Asian" lathe elsewhere. Don Don Had a look at the web site as You suggested. Properly set up, kept cleanand well lubricated I dont see why it should not give years of goodservice. At 350 dollars it looks like a bargain. If I was in the market fora lathe, I'd go for it straight away. Carsten from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Dec 31 04:56:19 1997 +0100 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA05639 for; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:52:06 +0100 (CET) Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:__8_=B4_#6_dryfly_rod?= Advice wanted Am looking for a taper for an 8 feet rod #6. Must have more speed andpowerthan Garrisons 212E. Have considered Youngs Para 15 as described in thetaper archives. (Is it a #6 ?) Any suggestions are welcomed Best Regards Carsten Jorgensen from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Dec 31 06:44:17 1997 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 31Dec 1997 07:45:54 -0500 Subject: Sherline I just wanted to let all the rod makers looking at lathes to know that if they can purchase with cash/check...I can sell the Sherlines to rodmakers for hair above cost. I do not mean to advertise....it is just the thought of someone paying more than they should. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from flyfisher@rhco.com Wed Dec 31 06:50:51 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_8_=B4_=236_dryfly_rod?= I would try Wayne's 8' 6 weight. Lots of power. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: Carsten Jorgensen [SMTP:c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk]Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 5:49 AM Subject: Re: 8 ' #6 dryfly rod Advice wanted Am looking for a taper for an 8 feet rod #6. Must have more speed andpowerthan Garrisons 212E. Have considered Youngs Para 15 as described inthetaper archives. (Is it a #6 ?) Any suggestions are welcomed Best Regards Carsten Jorgensen from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 31 07:28:29 1997 Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:28:22 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:__8_=B4_#6_dryfly_rod?= Advice wantedAm looking for a taper for an 8 feet rod #6. Must have more speed andpowerthan Garrisons 212E. Have considered Youngs Para 15 as described in thetaper archives. (Is it a #6 ?)Any suggestions are welcomedBest RegardsCarsten Jorgensen Carsten,I haven't tried any Garrison tapers, but the Para 15 by PHY couldn't realy be called powerful. The paras have an action that until you get used to seem dare I say it, willowy because of the way the butt bends so much. They're designed this way and once you get the feel of them aregreat rodsIf you like nymphing, you'd love the para 15 but it's a good alrounder To date, all the rods I like best are these type of rods but you need to fish one a bit and get used to the action before realy apreciating it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Dec 31 07:33:52 1997 Subject: Re: Myford Lathe At 18:09 30/12/97 -0500, you wrote:I hate to be the to inform you. But, new, Myford metal lathes are $4500plus. That, ofcourse, does not include tooling. Which can add half againto the price. But, they are so-o-o-o-o sexy!John John, Never considered my Myford Super 7 as sexy - silken, tight, glossy, purrs,petulant & from exotic shores but never sexy. See ya later - gotta godownstairs and visit the Myford. Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 31 08:09:47 1997 Subject: Re: Banty Rods RO>Have made one, from 9-0 Heddon which I think was a Bill StanleyFavorite.RO>Did so because of it's smallish cross section for a 9 footer. RO>Richard Tyree Richard, Did you save the butt from the Heddon? If you did I'd be interested inbuying it, especially if it's a late-era rod with a plastic reelseat.(the reelseat parts are needed) Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com orCanerods@aol.com PS - I've found that the line rating doesn't change by much, whenconverting into a banty - unless the rod's cane was breaking down fromage, wear & tear etc.... from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 31 08:19:39 1997 Subject: RE:The Caneotine RO> After all these years of talking about doing side by sidecomparisons - RO>finally The Caneotine. Dear Sir; I regret to inform you that the name "Caneotine" is a trademark ofFly-By- Night Industries and along with Whip-Yo-Kane and many others.However, since the president of FBN has not been seen in 5 years, we'renot sure if they are still in business. Don B. from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Dec 31 09:27:09 1997 0700 Subject: Re: Banty Rods Richard I think I have the specs on the Bill Stanley Favorite. I don't have timerightnow to look, but if you are interested let me know and I'll dig it out. Ralph from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Dec 31 09:33:28 1997 Subject: Re: The Caneotine First, Chris with a stroke of genius suggests the SpikeSpudSling test . Then Brian, tongue-in-Creek suggests... :-) # of unopened 750 ml bottles supported before breakage Which only made Chris' creative juices flow even harder with... We get Mike B and we can do Kegs of home brew. It wouldbe an interesting complement to the test. I contend that after the "unopened" 750ml bottles have been *adjusted*forweight, and the kegs also suitably *adjusted*, we won't even care whichCaneCan'tCrack!!! :-) Mike - pass me another "3 ounce" weight - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. from lblan@provide.net Wed Dec 31 09:41:36 1997 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_8_=B4_#6_dryfly_rod?= Carsten; you'd be hard pressed to beat Wayne's 8' 6wt. When we cast therodpictured on the front of his book, it was promptly dubbed "The Force". Larry Blan Am looking for a taper for an 8 feet rod #6. Must have more speed andpowerthan Garrisons 212E. Have considered Youngs Para 15 as described in thetaper archives. (Is it a #6 ?)Best RegardsCarsten Jorgensen from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Wed Dec 31 10:33:14 1997 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 31 Dec 1997 11:32:41 -0500 Subject: Thomas Bangor Rod I lucked up on a VG Thomas Bangor rod this week. Can anyone help mewith what weight line is right for this rod. My guess is that it is a 5wt, but I'm not sure. Any help would be great. Also, I think I got agood deal, but does anyone have an idea of a fair market price for thisrod? BTW: This is my first bamboo rod!!! from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 31 11:12:44 1997 Subject: RE:Thomas Bangor Rod Try looking for the rod's value @ ----> http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm Don Burns from jfoster@gte.net Wed Dec 31 11:24:56 1997 Subject: tapers Well I did it again, in preparation for generating some tapers ire-organized my mail archive (local) , got interrupted, decided toupgrade my netscape, and ate all my taper files, DAMN !!!! Reed, Minaru (sp), Doug, Chris, or any of you who have contributed taperswhich haven't been posted would you please send them again.Sorry about the inconvenience.Thanks I promise not to let it happen again,,,maybe. JWF Jon, I did get a good copy of your BMP and text and will post it soon..Thanx ( didn't loose it ) from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Dec 31 11:33:08 1997 0000 Subject: Rodmakers Elbow Visited the doctor yesterday after putting up with elbow pain for thelast month. Diagnosis: tennis elbow. While I haven't played tennis forabout ten years, I do flyfish at least once a week and am starting myninth rod in the last ten months. Doc says there may not be any relationbetween this malady and planing bamboo but I do notice that I put a fairamount of pressure on my pinky finger while planing. Has anyone else experienced similar problems? And, are there anysuggestions for a better name than "tennis elbow". Mostly to impress mynon-rodmaker friends. Maybe "Caneotine" Wayne might have something tooffer. Happy New Year,Tom Whittle from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Dec 31 11:33:34 1997 Subject: Re: Thomas Bangor Rod In a message dated 12/31/97 4:47:01 PM, you wrote: Well you did get lucky, as these were nice rods. The Bangor rod was notonerod, but a grade of rod, one of F.E.Thomas' less expensive grades, but stillwell made. I restored one once that was a 9 foot streamer rod for 7weightline. It was very elegant, and I ended up donating it to the CatskillMuseum.You are probably the best judge as to the line weight for this particularrod.. from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Dec 31 11:34:25 1997 Subject: Re:__8_í_#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 12/31/97 1:35:54 PM, you wrote: Tony - Excuse me for jumping on you over what is probably just a case ofintercontinental semantics. Your description of the Para 15 as a fishingtoolis on target, but I would consider it to be a very powerful rod. What it isnot is a fast rod. Speed is just that, the tip speed you feel when you pickupa rod and flex it with little or no load. Power is the ability of the rod tomaintain speed under load. In practical fishing terms, it is the ability tocarry a lot of line in the air. A rod that has a thick butt will be fast, itmay or may not be powerful. If the butt is so thick that the line weightandtip can't bend it, you don't get the benefit of the butt acting like a spring,storing and releasing energy. In that case a thinner, slower butt will bemorepowerful.Please don't feel like I'm preaching this at you, Tony, I'm preaching ingeneral. I see too many people pick up rods and flex them saying " Wowfeelthe power in that". What they should be saying in most cases is "Wow, feelthespeed". I hope we have not terminally confused Carsten here. If what you want is apowerful rod, the Para 15 is worth considering. I also agree with thosewhothink it is a bit tricky to cast, particularly if you cast it to anythingresembling it's considerable potential as a distance caster. If what youwantis a fast rod, I would consider the Dickerson 8014. from richjez@enteract.com Wed Dec 31 13:01:51 1997 0000 (207.229.148.198) Subject: RE: Myford Lathe The Woodcraft ad sounded so good it prompted a visit to the store. Theheadstock opening (I hope that is the right term) is a little over 3/8". Iam not sure that opening is sufficent for rodbuilding. Any comments from the list on what the minimum size opening is neededinthe head for rod building?Rich Jezioro just got a flyer from Woodcraft and they had a 2 foot myford lathe onsale for $299. Patrick from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Dec 31 13:20:21 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29268 for Subject: Re: Banty Rods At 06:17 AM 12/30/97 EST, you wrote:Does anyone have any experience with making so-called "Banty" rods outof themid and tip sections of a 3 piece rod? I am curious about line sizes oftheresulting Banty in relation to the original rod. Thanks. --Rich I would think that this would be a good use for Wayne's hexrod program.Youcould model both the original and the "Banty" version. Use different linewts.and compare stress curves with other rods. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 31 13:37:08 1997 OAA27405 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:37:12-0500 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Mike I like it when a plan comes together! Chris On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 09:33:59 -0600, Mike Biondo wrote: First, Chris with a stroke of genius suggests the SpikeSpudSling test . Then Brian, tongue-in-Creek suggests... :-) # of unopened 750 ml bottles supported before breakage Which only made Chris' creative juices flow even harder with... We get Mike B and we can do Kegs of home brew. It wouldbe an interesting complement to the test. I contend that after the "unopened" 750ml bottles have been *adjusted*forweight, and the kegs also suitably *adjusted*, we won't even care whichCaneCan'tCrack!!! :-) Mike - pass me another "3 ounce" weight - BiondoSt. Louis, Mo. Regards Chris from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Dec 31 14:05:25 1997 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Elbow 00269-tom wrote: .... Doc says there may not be any relationbetween this malady and planing bamboo but I do notice that I put a fairamount of pressure on my pinky finger while planing. Has anyone elseexperienced similar problems? And, are there anysuggestions for a better name than "tennis elbow". .... Tom, I've had similar problems, mostly numbness in my right hand,but Ithought my problems were from doing something wrong. I'm not very goodat this, yet, but you don't have to be good at something to enjoy it, doyou? (several other things come to mind! (:->) In my humble opinion, Ithink we should call this malady, "Rodmakers humerus, or, Craftsman'sCramps, " or anything but tennis elbow.(g) from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Dec 31 14:27:12 1997 Subject: Re: Re[6]: Xmas Gifts Survey In a message dated 97-12-30 10:11:23 EST, you write: Whoa, no! I think of Laphroig as at the extreme end of theRO> smokiness/peaty spectrum. It is different than Glenlivet >> There wqs an amusing little distillation we used to sip in Korea- I thinkwecalled it "Le Frog". Could this by any chance be the same drink? Davy from denny@interlynx.net Wed Dec 31 14:40:47 1997 PAA04223 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:40:15 Subject: Planing forms I am looking for info on purchasing a planing form. Looking for a goodquality, user friendly planing form. I have the name and am considering that of Lon Blauvelt. Any suggestions? Thanks Denny from denny@interlynx.net Wed Dec 31 14:44:36 1997 PAA04683 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 15:44:04 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Elbow I have just joined this E mail group, so I did not get the entireconversation. The technical name for tennis elbow is lateral epicondylitis.Denny from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Dec 31 14:56:23 1997 +0100 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA23454 for; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 21:54:47 +0100 (CET) Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re:_Re:=5F=5F8=5F=AB=5F#6=5Fdryfly=5Frod?= Tom wrote I hope we have not terminally confused Carsten here. If what you want isapowerful rod, the Para 15 is worth considering. I also agree with thosewhothink it is a bit tricky to cast, particularly if you cast it to anythingresembling it's considerable potential as a distance caster. If what youwantis a fast rod, I would consider the Dickerson 8014. Tom My experience proves You right. I do have what You term as a fast rod in#6. On short to middle distances it picks up and throw the line almost likea Sage graphite rod. Problem is, it simply cant throw a long line, probablydue to a much too stiff butt. I guess that could be termed as lack ofpower. I built it to replace the Garrison 212E, which it failed to do. As I see it, I have to choose between Para 15 and Waynes 8'#6. Comparingdimensions, they do look alike, also when comparing the shape of thestresscurves. What I dont get, is why the Para peeks at 170.000 pounds/sq.inch,whereas Waynes 8'peeks at 225.000.Presuming both rods are tested with and made for a DT 6 line, thedifference in dimensions are too small to explain this difference. Tom, and anybody else interested (Sir D, please notice): Your comments areinvited. December 31st, 0953 PM Best regards Carsten AND A HAPPY NEW YEAR TO ALL OF YOU from flyfisher@rhco.com Wed Dec 31 14:58:36 1997 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Planing forms I have Frank Armbruster's forms and they work well. A link to his pageis on the Rodmaker's page. He's called Colorado Bootstrap. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: denny@interlynx.net [SMTP:denny@interlynx.net]Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 3:40 PM Subject: Planing forms I am looking for info on purchasing a planing form. Looking for agood quality, user friendly planing form. I have the name and am considering thatof Lon Blauvelt. Any suggestions? Thanks Denny from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Dec 31 15:01:05 1997 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA03600 for Subject: Re: Rodmakers Elbow At 02:05 PM 12/31/97 -0600, you wrote:00269-tom wrote: .... Doc says there may not be any relationbetween this malady and planing bamboo but I do notice that I put a fairamount of pressure on my pinky finger while planing. Has anyone elseexperienced similar problems? And, are there anysuggestions for a better name than "tennis elbow". .... Tom, I've had similar problems, mostly numbness in my right hand,but Ithought my problems were from doing something wrong. I'm not verygoodat this, yet, but you don't have to be good at something to enjoy it, doyou? (several other things come to mind! (:->) In my humble opinion, Ithink we should call this malady, "Rodmakers humerus, or, Craftsman'sCramps, " or anything but tennis elbow.(g) Harry, I'm not a physician but I've had experience with a problem called thoracicoutlet syndrome. This happens to me when the muscles around my shoulderblade tighten. There is a nerve junction called the brachial plexus whichcan be compressed when the muscles spasm. This can cause numbness inthefingers. It can often be helped by a heating pad and rest from theoffending activity. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from denny@interlynx.net Wed Dec 31 15:02:07 1997 QAA07145 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:01:31 - Subject: planing forms I am looking to obtain a planing form. I am a beginner. What do you thinkof Lon Blauvelt's. Any suggestions? ThanksDenny from maiello@yorku.ca Wed Dec 31 15:20:05 1997 (aQRRjRVK9A0aAe5T9aqfHy0yst3/hNs9@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA03191 for ; Subject: Re: Rodmakers Elbow I played softball over the summer, and had the same problem.It feels like you hit your funny bone.I fixed it durring games by picking up the heaviest bat, and swinging itas hard as I could.It is a miraculous difference, from intense pain to none at all.This may very well be your problem, if you are straining your shoulder inplaning. Make sure your work bench is high enough.I think around your navel is right. Mauro On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Douglas P. Easton wrote: At 02:05 PM 12/31/97 -0600, you wrote:00269-tom wrote: .... Doc says there may not be any relationbetween this malady and planing bamboo but I do notice that I put afairamount of pressure on my pinky finger while planing. Has anyone elseexperienced similar problems? And, are there anysuggestions for a better name than "tennis elbow". .... Tom, I've had similar problems, mostly numbness in my right hand,but Ithought my problems were from doing something wrong. I'm not verygoodat this, yet, but you don't have to be good at something to enjoy it, doyou? (several other things come to mind! (:->) In my humble opinion, Ithink we should call this malady, "Rodmakers humerus, or, Craftsman'sCramps, " or anything but tennis elbow.(g) Harry, I'm not a physician but I've had experience with a problem calledthoracicoutlet syndrome. This happens to me when the muscles around myshoulderblade tighten. There is a nerve junction called the brachial plexus whichcan be compressed when the muscles spasm. This can cause numbness inthefingers. It can often be helped by a heating pad and rest from theoffending activity. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Dec 31 15:36:51 1997 Subject: Re: Re[6]: Xmas Gifts Survey RO> RO> Whoa, no! I think of Laphroig as at the extreme end of theRO>RO> smokiness/peaty spectrum. It is different than Glenlivet >> RO>There wqs an amusing little distillation we used to sip in Korea- Ithink weRO>called it "Le Frog". Could this by any chance be the same drink? Davy, Don't know - if "Le Frog" was very peaty, then it's the same stuff.Comes from Islay. (sp?) Don B. from Bopep@aol.com Wed Dec 31 15:49:26 1997 Subject: Re: __8_'_#6_dryfly_rod I have a neat Gillum 2pc if you're interested. It's fast and powerful andveryenjoyable to fish!Rob Hoffhines from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Dec 31 16:03:04 1997 RAA29921 for ; Wed, 31 Dec 1997 17:03:06-0500 Subject: =?iso-8859-0?q?Re:___8_=B4_#6_dryfly_rod?= Rob Tell us more - sounds like a good rod. The Gillums I have casthave been very powerful. There is not that many tapers floating out there Chris On Wed, 31 Dec 1997 16:45:25 EST, Bopep wrote: I have a neat Gillum 2pc if you're interested. It's fast and powerful andveryenjoyable to fish!Rob Hoffhines Regards Chris from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Dec 31 16:03:51 1997 Subject: Re: Re: Banty Rods Don Burns,I have a few Heddon butt sections laying around as I have made a fewBanty'sif you are interested in them I will be willing to let you have them. Maybewe can trade for something.Bret from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Dec 31 16:10:41 1997 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod In a message dated 97-12-31 16:11:32 EST, you write: What I dont get, is why the Para peeks at 170.000 pounds/sq.inch,whereas Waynes 8'peeks at 225.000.Presuming both rods are tested with and made for a DT 6 line, thedifference in dimensions are too small to explain this difference. Tom, and anybody else interested (Sir D, please notice): Your commentsareinvited. Forgive me for changing the subject line. AOL was reporting it as a foreign language subject. Too many special characters. Are you ready for this?..... The stress reading of one point on a rod is dependant on whatis between that point and the tip. That is, take two differently designed rods, and take a point, say, 15 inches from the tip, and the diameters are the same at that point, but one has a stiffer (thicker) tip. A thicker tip means more weight that the 15 inch point is supporting and therefore will have a higherstress reading at that point than the other rod at that point. If you calculate the area under the curve, you will notice thatslower rods will have a larger area than faster rods. Couldthis be the "power" factor Tom has mentioned interpreted in numbers? If so, a rod with a lower peak, but a more flexible butt section, will have more area under the curve, which mightbe more load carrying capacity, or "power". Anybody look at the stress curve of the Leonard taper onJerry's web page? Any thoughts on that? Darryl Hayashida from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Dec 31 16:15:09 1997 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Elbow Tom,i have the same problem with my elbows. I went to the Dr. and he told mesince I DIDN'T play tennis but that i have flyfished for 31 years that it isOK to call it flyfishing elbow. from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Dec 31 16:36:43 1997 0700 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Elbow Has anyone else experienced similar problems? And, are there anysuggestions for a better name than "tennis elbow". Mostly to impress mynon-rodmaker friends. Maybe "Caneotine" Wayne might have something tooffer. No elbow problems, but I have nodes on my right index finger that give it astrangely distorted shape. "A plane finger?"Ralph from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Dec 31 17:45:11 1997 Subject: _Re:__8_é_#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 12/31/97 9:18:06 PM, you wrote: Carsten - I ran Wayne's taper and was not able to duplicate the results ontheweb page. I got an identically shaped curve, but it peaked at about185,000. Iused 6 weight line with 50 foot cast. The curve on the web page must havebeenrun with longer or heavier line. See what you come up with.Darryl - An interesting thought regarding the area under the curve. I thinkyou have a point, but it is a question of degree. If you keep thinning thebutt, the stresses will keep going up, and the area under the curve willincrease, but at some point the butt becomes too weak to support the tip.Atthat point the rod begins to lose "power". As usual it's a question ofbalanceand compromise. Casting style plays a role here, also. from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Dec 31 17:52:53 1997 0500 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Mike-I'd wager we would care - and hoot and holler - much more afterzeroing in the weights. Brian from jczimny@dol.net Wed Dec 31 19:11:50 1997 Subject: Re: Myford Lathe I think 3/8ths is awfully close to being too small.John Zimny from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Dec 31 19:16:06 1997 Subject: 60* point Still searching. I had one list member say he had ten and would part with one for a fin.Had the fin in the mail the next day and haven't heard anything since. Had one list member inform me that surely I must be able to find one inKC. Hit the phone book hard and no one had one in stock. They couldorder one for me from Chicago if I had an account with them. I guess I will go in the 60* point business. I am going to callStarrett and make a minimum order of the damn things. If the person whohas my check has them in the mail then let me know, otherwise I will bethe source for the excess. Pointless in Independence from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Dec 31 19:25:06 1997 Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:24:58 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re:__8_í_#6_dryfly_rod On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 12/31/97 1:35:54 PM, you wrote: realy be called powerful. >> Tony - Excuse me for jumping on you over what is probably just a case ofintercontinental semantics. Your description of the Para 15 as a fishingtoolis on target, but I would consider it to be a very powerful rod. What it isnot is a fast rod. Speed is just that, the tip speed you feel when you pickupa rod and flex it with little or no load. Power is the ability of the rod tomaintain speed under load. In practical fishing terms, it is the ability tocarry a lot of line in the air. A rod that has a thick butt will be fast, itmay or may not be powerful. If the butt is so thick that the line weightandtip can't bend it, you don't get the benefit of the butt acting like aspring,storing and releasing energy. In that case a thinner, slower butt will bemorepowerful.Please don't feel like I'm preaching this at you, Tony, I'm preaching ingeneral. I see too many people pick up rods and flex them saying " Wowfeelthe power in that". What they should be saying in most cases is "Wow,feel thespeed". I hope we have not terminally confused Carsten here. If what you want isapowerful rod, the Para 15 is worth considering. I also agree with thosewhothink it is a bit tricky to cast, particularly if you cast it to anythingresembling it's considerable potential as a distance caster. If what youwantis a fast rod, I would consider the Dickerson 8014. Tom,I know what you're saying about the power being in the cast not in the rod, that's why I went on a bit about the style of rod and how it takes a while to get used to it. Also because Carsten was comparing the para 15 to a rod which I admit I've only read about and wanting more power I assumed (prob incorrectly) that Carsten was after a rod with more "snap".I find that people not knowing what to exect with PHY paras rods are often at a loss when they come to use a para and think of them as willowyand give up on them.I often fish with a WC 8' #5 and I can cast it any distance I need to when I need to but people I fish with sometimes have a cast and can't do anything with it and just hand the rod back giving me a strange look. You are 100% correct though in what you say. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Dec 31 19:46:04 1997 Subject: Re: 60* point Steve, MSC will order for you through Starrett. They have a $25 or $30minimum, but they carry glue, so I killed two birds with one stone. Theyare very fast, I will order from them again. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Steve Trauthwein Subject: 60* pointDate: Wednesday, December 31, 1997 7:16 PM Still searching. I had one list member say he had ten and would part with one for a fin.Had the fin in the mail the next day and haven't heard anything since. Had one list member inform me that surely I must be able to find one inKC. Hit the phone book hard and no one had one in stock. They couldorder one for me from Chicago if I had an account with them. I guess I will go in the 60* point business. I am going to callStarrett and make a minimum order of the damn things. If the personwhohas my check has them in the mail then let me know, otherwise I will bethe source for the excess. Pointless in Independence from gcjones@primary.net Wed Dec 31 19:59:02 1997 Subject: Re: 60* point Steve Trauthwein wrote: Still searching.I guess I will go in the 60* point business. I am going to callStarrett and make a minimum order of the damn things. Pointless in Independence Steve:There is a place in St. Louis where I ordered a 60 point, they didn't havein stock but got one in about a week, cost was $3.50. Call Missouri ToolsinFenton at 314-343-4545. The part number is at the office so I can't giveitto you now, if you need the number let me know. Will be out of town untilMonday, have to go to the White River and try to catch some big brownsoverthe holidays.Gary Jones St. Louis Flyman