from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jan 1 08:53:41 1998 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20419 for Subject: =?iso-8859- 1?Q?Re:_=5FRe:=5F=5F8=5F=C7=5F#6=5Fdryfly=5Frod?= At 06:35 PM 12/31/97 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 12/31/97 9:18:06 PM, you wrote: whereas Waynes 8'peeks at 225.000.>> Carsten - I ran Wayne's taper and was not able to duplicate the results ontheweb page. I got an identically shaped curve, but it peaked at about185,000. Iused 6 weight line with 50 foot cast. The curve on the web page musthavebeenrun with longer or heavier line. See what you come up with.Darryl - An interesting thought regarding the area under the curve. I thinkyou have a point, but it is a question of degree. If you keep thinning thebutt, the stresses will keep going up, and the area under the curve willincrease, but at some point the butt becomes too weak to support the tip.Atthat point the rod begins to lose "power". As usual it's a question ofbalanceand compromise. Casting style plays a role here, also. All, If my physics course of 30 years ago serves me right, power has units ofWork/time. Work done by the rod is the force times distance moved (by therod tip). Therefore, the power of a rod is the force it exerts on the linetimes the distance the tip moves divided by the time required. Soooo, I amnot certain what we mean when we say a rod is "powerful." I think we aresaying that the rod does work at a slower rate which would say that it isnot powerful but that it is slow. Of course this says nothing about loopformation, wind resistance the casting motion of the angler or a millionother things. my $0.02. Darryl, how does this relate to the area under the stress curve? To all a Happy and Prosperous New Year, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jan 1 09:02:29 1998 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA20555 for Subject: Get-to-gether in Fergus? Although I gave my e-mail address to a person to forward to anotherpersonao that that person might send me information on a May gathering inFergusOntario, sadly I have not heard a thing. I would greatly appreciate a post from anyone who has info on this function. Thanks and Happy 1998, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jan 1 10:10:53 1998 Subject: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 1/1/98 3:00:09 PM, you wrote: Doug - I agree with your definition, But powerful and slow are notmutuallyexclusive. A rod that bends deeply into the butt will carry more lineweightin the air, and the tip will travel a longer distance. As long as reasonablespeed is maintained more power is being expended is it not? I'm not sayingthat all fast rods are not powerful, or that all slow rods are. What I amsaying is that power and speed are not the same thing. The ultimate testissimply how much line the rod will throw. The Para 15 we were discussingis agood example of a rod that is somewhat slow when fully loaded, but willcast avery long line. from parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Thu Jan 1 10:27:43 1998 (parkerdh@localhost) with SMTP id JAA54356 Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:27:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Reel plans & comments on lathe book Terry, I also wouldn't mind a copy of the article. David Parker10503-36A AvenueEdmonton, AlbertaCanada T6J 2H7I would be happy to reimburse your expenses, perhaps you might like awooden pen in return? Thanks in advance. On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Terry Paulsen wrote: If you are looking for plans for a basic fly reel there is an article in the January 1951 issue of Mechanix Illustrated titled "Machine Your FishingReel"starting on page 141. If you library does not have the bound volumes Ihave a copy and will copy it. It would probably not post to the web very wellthough. The Book How to Run a Lathe by the South bend Lathe Co. is an excellentstarterbook. It is the first book I got after I acquired my lathe, and it is thefirst reference I go to when I have a question. Have a merry Christmas all. sincerely Terry Paulsen from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 1 10:43:24 1998 LAA10791 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:43:23 -0500 Subject: Stress Curves Tom You bring up a good point on some of these stress curves. If youdon't know the parameters inputted it is hard to comparecurves. Additionallysome rods are designed with a specific distance or "sweet spot" in mind.So - people should be very carefull when comparing. I run a lot of my mountain tapers with 15-20' of line max. I use 30-35' for "normal" troutrodsand 60'+ for "big dog" rods. So when a stress curve is posted I reccomendthat it says for what line at what distance. Regards Chris from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Jan 1 10:57:46 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe work Try MSC Industrial Supply Co.151 Sunnyside Blvd.Plainview, NY 11803 I don't have there phone no. here at my computor, it's out in myshop.Callinfo for there no. If you can't get it, let me know and I will get it for you.Call fora catalog. They may have what you are looking for. Dave L. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jan 1 11:06:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Reel plans & comments on lathe book Terry,If it wouldn't be to much trouble could I also get a copy of the article onreels. I will reimburse for expences if you like. Please send toGreenhighlander at P.O. Box 2974,So. Bend,IN. 46680. thank you in advance.bret from parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Thu Jan 1 11:53:10 1998 (parkerdh@localhost) with SMTP id KAA20852 Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:53:04 -0700 Subject: Re:RE: Lathe books - was lathe work wugate.wustl.edu id LAA00223 I would appreciate receiving a copy too Carsten!David Parker10503-36A AvenueEdmonton, AlbertaCanada T6J 2H7 On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, [ISO-8859-1] Carsten Jorgensen wrote: ----------Don wrote Tell me what you think of the book - I'm thinking of buying a copy too.Thanks for the tool post idea, I guess I'll need all kinds of extrassoon after buying a lathe. Don B. -Don If we're talking Myford Series 7, You better talk to Your bankmangerbeforebuying extras. This is pro stuff and VERY expensive. It allso happens tobethe best. If still talking Series 7, I can snail-mail You a xerox copy oftheir accessory brochure. Just tell me your home address, and it will besent in a week (when my holiday is over) best regards Carsten from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Jan 1 12:03:11 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods In a message dated 97-12-31 10:34:50 EST, you write: Thanks Ralph, and yes, would like the specs. Kind of sorry I did notrestorethe Heddon to its original configuration, but at the time was in the"anythinglonger than 8 feet is too heavy in bamboo" phase. To Don Burns: will check it out and let you know, but think that one had atrashed reel seat. Thanks to both of you for your responses. Regards,Richard from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 1 13:07:07 1998 Subject: Re:8_#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 98-01-01 09:59:26 EST, you write: Darryl, how does this relate to the area under the stress curve? I don't know for sure, it was just conjecture on my part. It'sbeen a long time since I took derivitives of an equation. Perhapsone of the mechanical engineers on the list can tell us. Darryl Hayashida from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jan 1 13:49:57 1998 Subject: Resolutions To the List 12/31/97Happy New Year to all. How about a resolution to stamp out all ferruleproblems. Make one-piecers. They fish great! Bill from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 1 14:23:49 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods Dear Gang Maybe this is a little late, but perhaps for next holidays or birthdays... I used a couple of old butt sections to make ink pens for a few fly fishingfriends. Woodcraft and a few other outfits sell the hardware kits and allyouhave to do is cut the bamboo to length, chuck it up in a 3-jaw and drill theprescribed diameter hole. Put it all together and you've got a very unique gift. Autograph it for themand they might even think of you next time they consider buying a rod! Imade one for a German buddy that even had the old original intermediatesandvarnish. I just hate to see anything go to waste. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 1 14:27:01 1998 Subject: Re: Re[6]: Xmas Gifts Survey In a message dated 97-12-31 16:39:47 EST, you write: Comes from Inchon, I think. Peaty? Perhaps more like "paddy", but firstyou've got to get past the formaldehyde. Good flavorful belches, though,andthat's a fact. Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Jan 1 15:10:51 1998 Subject: Re: Re: The Caneotine Gentlemen,gentlemen,gentlemen(and ladies if any in this irreverentbunch),This cane testing is serious business. It is obvious that the altered 750ml bottles would seriously change the results of any test. This is probablywhy Wayne's results were so surprising. Also if the strips were not fromthesame culm and side by side the results might be even more surprising,therefore I suggest we stick to single malts and let the cane deflectwhere itwill.Hank. from harry37@epix.net Thu Jan 1 16:49:48 1998 RAA01573 Subject: Finishing reel seat inserts I've recently come across some zebra and some ebony and I want to turnsome reel seats. Any suggestions for a method to finish them? I've seen somedescriptions of oil finishes and others for varnish or poly finishes. All seem to have their own respective strengths as well as weaknesses. I'm looking for water- repellency and gloss-- Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks and Happy New Year! Greg from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Jan 1 17:09:41 1998 Subject: Tuning rods I was talking with a friend last week, and blissfully casting variousmakers' rods, when he abruptly brought up the subject of "Rod Tuning".He deals in classic cane, has handled thousands of fine rods, and knows,or has known, many of the top makers. His statement was something to theeffect that most of the new makers didn't tune their rods, and tuningwas an important part of the finishing steps that determined whether arod would be adequate or superb. few thous) from carefully selected portions of the glued, cleaned stick,in order to accentuate the action desired. I have read of this process,and the writer (a friend of Payne's) seemed to take it as a necessarystep in quality manufacture. This leads me to ask, "How many of thelistmembers "tune" their rods in this manner?".Best regards,Reed from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Jan 1 18:04:52 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA23614 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:00:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod -Sir D wrote--------- Are you ready for this?..... The stress reading of one point on a rod is dependant on whatis between that point and the tip. That is, take two differently designed rods, and take a point, say, 15 inches from the tip, and the diameters are the same at that point, but one has a stiffer (thicker) tip. A thicker tip means more weight that the 15 inch point is supporting and therefore will have a higherstress reading at that point than the other rod at that point. Sir D Dont know if I am ready, but I try. Your message dated 22 of october 1997re. stress curves will not be forgotten. from the debate I have learned,that at least I have a problem defining the terms "powerfull" "fast" and"force". I think we have some sort of clarification now. As to the abovequotation: Message understood. What kind of chocks me is Chris Bogarts remark dated jan 1st: " So when astress curve is posted I reccomend that it says for what line at whatdistance." And there I was, thinking stresscurves was based on the first30feet of a DT line of a given AFTM classification. What an dummy I musthavelooked like. My question of Wayne versus Payne is simply, well, irrelevant. The answer to my question is very simple: Use Hexrod until not only thecurves, but the numbers as well correspond. The only variable being thedesignated length of casting. When the curves/ounces pr. sq.inch corespondwe have a winner: The rod able to throw the longest line is the morepowerfull rod, but not necessarily the fastest. This all sounds very appealing, but I fear it is not true. Why: Because inorder to have a magnificent #4 rod, able to throw a whole flyline, just usea #6 rod. I think I am getting to understand stress curves, and how to interpretethem, but one question remains How does one classify a rod in AFTM terms? Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from gcjones@primary.net Thu Jan 1 18:17:39 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Greg Kuntz wrote: I've recently come across some zebra and some ebony and I want to turnsome reel seats. Any suggestions for a method to finish them? Greg Greg:Just finished a reel seat out of zebra and it looks good. I have beenusing Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil gunstock finish for my reel seats forseveral years and have had no problems with it . Available at mosthardware and sporting goods stores.Good luck. Gary Jones from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Jan 1 18:23:28 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA25103 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:22:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod Sir D and others In my rather longish message I forgot to tell I am realizing the existanceof a maximum amount of stress, before the rod breaks. If I have overextended my use of bandwith, do excuse me. Am simplydetermined to understand these things. Carsten from sats@gte.net Thu Jan 1 19:17:59 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods Does anyone have any experience with making so-called "Banty" rods outof themid and tip sections of a 3 piece rod? I am curious about line sizes oftheresulting Banty in relation to the original rod. Thanks. Rich,I've built two "Banty" rods so far. Don't expect the line wt. to beconsistentwith the original line wt. I can't really give you exact information, but the first one seems to like aDT5. The second one, I just finished. It seems to like a WF3. I cheated on thisone a little bit by "changing" the taper of the butt section, by .002 or so.This was done because the two sections came from two different rods.(God knowswhere the other sections went to.) The fact is, you can change the action to of a rod quite a bit by removing.002~ .003. Remember, the power fibers are located on the outside, so a littlegoesa long way both in the power and the speed of the rod. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:18:04 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod In a message dated 98-01-01 19:09:47 EST, you write: And there I was, thinking stresscurves was based on the first 30feet of a DT line of a given AFTM classification. What an dummy I musthavelooked like. My question of Wayne versus Payne is simply, well,irrelevant. Most stress curves that I have dealt with use 30 ft. as a base for the length line casted. The only reason to change it would bethat if you know the rod will be casting a different length almostall the time. Such as a small creek rod that will always cast inthe 20 foot range, and hardly ever cast over 30 feet. Or a rod ever cast less than that. The answer to my question is very simple: Use Hexrod until not only thecurves, but the numbers as well correspond. The only variable being thedesignated length of casting. When the curves/ounces pr. sq.inchcorespondwe have a winner: The rod able to throw the longest line is the morepowerfull rod, but not necessarily the fastest. This all sounds very appealing, but I fear it is not true. Why: Because inorder to have a magnificent #4 rod, able to throw a whole flyline, justusea #6 rod. You are right, this won't work. There is also the lower limit where therod stops flexing (Garrison believed this was at 140,000) and if youtry and use a 6 wt. rod to cast a 4 wt. line, most of the rod won'tbe flexing ( won't be "loading" the rod). I think I am getting to understand stress curves, and how to interpretethem, but one question remains How does one classify a rod in AFTM terms? Use the stress curves, keeping the length of the line equal to your average cast, and use the line weight that has most of the rodstresses between 200,000 and 140,000 (or any other stress valuesthat you are comfortable with). That will be the line weight to startwith, but there is no substitute for actually casting the rod witha lighter line and a heavier line, just to see what it feels like.Other variables enter into the equation, such as differing stiffnessor strength of the bamboo you used. Darryl Hayashida from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:19:04 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Dear Greg Personally, I like ebony, though it may be rather heavy. In fact, its densitycan be a real plus, as this allows it to take a very fine polish. The onlynegative aspect, in my experience, is that ebony has a strong tendency tocheck if green . My practice is to sand the ebony on the lathe, down to 600 or 1000 grit,thengo through the diminishing grits of a Micro-Mesh kit, from 1800 to about12000. After that, all you've got to do is apply a scant dab of wax- either bee's orpaste- and buff it out with a soft cloth. Fine paste wax will give the mostgloss, but bee's wax will produce a lovely glow in a wide range of gloss.You'll want to use a high speed. This can be done with most of the exotic hardwoods- at least the oneswith ahigh resin content, such as the true rosewoods. If the user exercises eventhe minimum care appropriate for a bamboo rod, he/she will never haveneed ofa eighth-inch of polyurethane. I strongly urge you to try this before you apply the sort of "bullet- proof"acrylic finish one often sees on the graphite rods. Davy from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:36:06 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I use Formby's high gloss polyurethane finish. You rub it on with a softcloth and rub the previous coat down with 4/0 steel wool. Let each coatdry24 hours. 5-6 coats required but it only takes 2 minutes per coat,includingthe rub down. Do not rub the top coat. --Rich from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:50:30 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I meant to add that I've used this method with nonoily native woods likemapleand walnut. Don't know how it would work with oily exotics, but I think itwould be OK. --Rich from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:52:56 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Well I just returned from an excursion to Grayrock - I have journeyedtoRodmaker Mecca - as predicted the weather was - 'Gray' - The event thatdrewme there was to photograph the wedding of Nancy Carlisle - our troutbumhostest from Spike's - and John Hunt - who works on enviromental issuesforCamp Grayrock - both nice folks. A fun event actually - it seems thatunderthe formal wedding dress that Nancy wore she also had on a pair of redboxershorts. I passed on the best wishes of the group.Today - 'on the way home' I couldn't resist stopping by to see myfavorite- which really isn't 'on the way home'. My all trusting wife hung on as weslide down Jordan River road - unplowed due to it's status as a 'seasonalroad' - truth be know even in the middle of the summer the 'road' isunseasonable - not far into the valley we were met by severalsnowmobilers whodid a double take of the vechicle. The river is as ever - only quietlyshrouded in snow - as if awaiting the return of the Rodmakers. I tookpicturesat several locations - especially the Section 13 Creek area - that's whereseveral list members were introduced to the river - or shall I say 'hadtheirbutts kicked' trying to fish it. I will post some of the pictures to my pagewhen they are developed. Also I searched through my old photos and havefoundother memories of the river - I even found the picture I took of theGentleman's Rambler - story to follow.I have read the posts of the past several days of absence and have acoupleof thoughts.The reason for testing samples of bamboo were to identify what if anyadverse affects that mold might have on bamboo - although the test jig(akaCaneotine) can be used to test difflection the idea here was to go to alloutbreakage. The results - not affected by any 750 ml bottle - were quitesuprising and before I say too much about them I want to try different andmore samples - initially it APPEARS - and I stress that word - that theeffectof mold can be devistating to the cell structure. Samples that showedgreying- when viewed from the side broke at about 30% less weight than samplesthatdidn't show greying. Deflection up to breakage appeared greater as well -butthere were no exact measurements taken. Not good news - BUT as I statedI willfeel more comfortable of the results after trying a few more samples -although 2 sample of each of 3 catagories were broken ( or rather tested).My and doing testing of their own - it still is.Planeaddict Elbow (spoken with flow) - Well it sounds a little medical-As any repetative motion can affect joints and muscles - the lessening oftheeffort can also reduce the effect. There are several measures that canmakeplaning real work - dull plane blades - trying to squeeze the bamboo intoshape - dull plane blades - workbench height - dull plane blades - tryingtotake too big a cut - and dull plane blades.. This may sound off the wall forsome but the only effort in planing should be parallel with the form -Thereshould be NO need for any down pressure whatsoever - the weight of theplaneis all that is needed. And the plane should be gripped ever so lightly. Toooften I have seen the beginner who is exerting so much down pressure andholding the plane so hard - the knuckles of their planing hand start to turnblue. If things are right this effort is unneeded. But it is learned or ratherpracticedWhen right - the planing creates a wisking sound - when this soundisn'theard it's time to sharpen the blade. If the plane makes a few passes andthenstops cutting - the burr was never removed and it has now flippedinsulatingthe edge from cutting. Happy 98Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jan 1 20:07:42 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod The Para 15 was dual tipped - both a wet and dry fly tip - either willcast a good bit of line. The 'Force' is a modified Para -15 - the tip wasredone. It too will cast some line. Understand - I have been told by some ofthe very best that I can't cast worth a $#!? - it's my up bringing on smallstreams that accounts for that - well I can put out about 105' of line withthe rod - and a friend who can cast did 135' with just three passes. It willalso cast leader only - not bad huh???? from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jan 1 20:55:16 1998 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12646 for Subject: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod At 11:10 AM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 1/1/98 3:00:09 PM, you wrote: saying that the rod does work at a slower rate which would say that it is not powerful but that it is slow. >> Doug - I agree with your definition, But powerful and slow are notmutuallyexclusive. A rod that bends deeply into the butt will carry more lineweightin the air, and the tip will travel a longer distance. As long as reasonablespeed is maintained more power is being expended is it not? I'm notsayingthat all fast rods are not powerful, or that all slow rods are. What I amsaying is that power and speed are not the same thing. The ultimate testissimply how much line the rod will throw. The Para 15 we were discussingis agood example of a rod that is somewhat slow when fully loaded, but willcast avery long line. All, I think we are using the wrong terminology and are also missing a centralpoint. The point is, that fly rods do not have any power. The rod gets allits energy from the angler. Fly rods are energy transfer devices whichhavean elastic component which stores and releases the angler's energy. Howwell the energy is transferred (the efficiency of the rod) is whatdetermines how much line a given caster can put in the air. The object offly rod design is to make a rod that is mechanically efficient and alsointerfaces well with the angler's casting style. Obviously a rigid stickshould be a very efficient rod, however it wouldn't be easy to cast and youmight put a lot of line on the ground with it. I think that to be a usefulenergy transfer device a fly rod must be a favorable compromise betweenmechanical efficiency and ergonomics. Powerful rods in my definition arerod which have a good balance of these properties Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from lblan@provide.net Thu Jan 1 22:00:06 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts My favorite method is to coat them with a thin epoxy. The epoxy is sandedand polished to a soft glow. Looks good, fills the pores and is durable. Larry Blan Greg Kuntz wrote:I've recently come across some zebra and some ebony and I want to turnsome reel seats. Any suggestions for a method to finish them? Greg Greg:Just finished a reel seat out of zebra and it looks good. I have beenusing Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil gunstock finish for my reel seats forseveral years and have had no problems with it . Available at mosthardware and sporting goods stores.Good luck.Gary Jones from lblan@provide.net Thu Jan 1 22:00:08 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod The first time I cast "The Force", Sam was out on his dock with it. Hehanded it to me, and I threw a 25-30 foot backcast. I actually stopped,looked back and thought or uttered "wow".Larry Blan The Para 15 was dual tipped - both a wet and dry fly tip - either willcast a good bit of line. The 'Force' is a modified Para -15 - the tip wasredone. It too will cast some line. Understand - I have been told by someofthe very best that I can't cast worth a $#!? - it's my up bringing on smallstreams that accounts for that - well I can put out about 105' of linewiththe rod - and a friend who can cast did 135' with just three passes. Itwillalso cast leader only - not bad huh???? from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Jan 1 22:16:24 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods In a message dated 97-12-31 09:11:35 EST, you write: from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jan 2 00:21:04 1998 Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:20:51 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod saying that the rod does work at a slower rate which would say that itis not powerful but that it is slow. >> Doug - I agree with your definition, But powerful and slow are notmutuallyexclusive. A rod that bends deeply into the butt will carry more lineweightin the air, and the tip will travel a longer distance. As long asreasonablespeed is maintained more power is being expended is it not? I'm notsayingthat all fast rods are not powerful, or that all slow rods are. What I amsaying is that power and speed are not the same thing. The ultimatetest issimply how much line the rod will throw. The Para 15 we werediscussing is agood example of a rod that is somewhat slow when fully loaded, butwillcast avery long line. All, I think we are using the wrong terminology and are also missing acentralpoint. The point is, that fly rods do not have any power. The rod gets allits energy from the angler. Fly rods are energy transfer devices whichhavean elastic component which stores and releases the angler's energy. Howwell the energy is transferred (the efficiency of the rod) is whatdetermines how much line a given caster can put in the air. The object offly rod design is to make a rod that is mechanically efficient and alsointerfaces well with the angler's casting style. Obviously a rigid stickshould be a very efficient rod, however it wouldn't be easy to cast andyoumight put a lot of line on the ground with it. I think that to be a usefulenergy transfer device a fly rod must be a favorable compromisebetweenmechanical efficiency and ergonomics. Powerful rods in my definitionarerod which have a good balance of these properties I understand that when you speak of "Power (upper case P)" it is a property of the casting of the line even thought the rod may not seem to have much power to feel in it's action, ie a slow rod or a flexible butt as per the para 15 either WC's or PHY's BUT these rods great as they are as casting rods don't have much "guts" when it comes to power (lower case p) needed to turn a big fish in a current or pick up line for mending in a strong current. Please don't take what I just said as a critisism I realy like para rods but they are not powerful (lower case p) rods for this purposecompared with WC's 7 '6" #5 for eg which has a stif butt and is IMHO a better rod extreme casting distance anyhow.To come back to the original point. If Carsten is saying he wants a more P/powerful rod than the Garrison but realy means more backbone, what is the correct term? Possibly Carsten did mean Power as it is used in the context of line throwing ability?I think this is a reasonably important point as the term can seem quite contradictory. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Jan 2 03:14:44 1998 (CET) ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:08:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod Sir D wrote "Use the stress curves, keeping the length of the line equal to your average cast, and use the line weight that has most of the rodstresses between 200,000 and 140,000 (or any other stress valuesthat you are comfortable with). That will be the line weight to startwith, but there is no substitute for actually casting the rod witha lighter line and a heavier line, just to see what it feels like.Other variables enter into the equation, such as differing stiffnessor strength of the bamboo you used." Point taken. Especially the remark on quality of bamboo. (My soft spot,together with hardening) Are we coming closer to a present timedefinitionof the AFTM system?: A stress curve between say 150.000 and 225.000measured with 30 feet of a given DT flyline? Somehow I have doubts about making a curve with 10 - 20 feet of line asthevariable. If this results in a curve within the above mentioned definition,what we have is a rod of a smaller #. Yes, the curve is correct, but thestartingpoint (distance of cast) is wrong, seen in the light of AFTMclassification and curves. Wayne wote "well I can put out about 105' of line with the rod - and a friend who cancast did 135' with just three passes. It will also cast leader only - notbad huh????" Wayne Bulls eye:A rod should be able to cast both long and short. As to castingabilities: Well, I am simply a lousy caster due to lousy style. Richard wrote "Seems there are just too many variables in all this to nail down tightly,else why all the variable input from so many brainy rodbuilders? And that is a serious question, not any kind of put down." Well Richard, this just proves the old proverb about one fool asking morequestions than ten wise men can answer. And I don't take Your remark as aput down. Tony wrote ITo come back to the original point. If Carsten is saying he wants a more P/powerful rod than the Garrison but realy means more backbone, whatis the correct term? Possibly Carsten did mean Power as it is used in the context of line throwing ability?I think this is a reasonably important point as the term can seem quite contradictory. Tony Tony Did fear somebody would put their finger on the soft spot. Well, You did.You see, I want to have my cake and eat it: I want both casting power andthe ability to fight a big fish in a strong current. I haven't buildneither the PHY Para nor Waynes 8 #6 - yet. I have to re-read all of thedebate, before I make up my mind: Para, Wayne, Dickerson or the Gillum,wehave been promised tapers for. Gotta do a lot of Hexrod exercises too, as Ifeel this necessary. When choosing a taper, I have to rely on 3 things: Stress curves, theexperience of fellow List members and my own experience.Information available right here and now deems the Para type rod a greattool for throwing a long and a short line, perhaps less great for thefighting/mending in strong current, all of this due to a thinnish butt. TheDickerson and Waynes 7,5 #5 are said to be fast with a definately stifferbutt. The Gillum hasto be seen to be judged. The outcome of the debate until now for my part is more knowledge and abetter understanding of the vocabulary used on the List. Still, as Youremark Yourself, complete agreement re. definition on terms has not beenreached, yet. I have no doubt it will be in time. Best regards Carsten from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jan 2 06:10:25 1998 Subject: contact info? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Does anyone have the email for the Japanese maker who sent the picturesof his interesting rods, he also sent me some very old tapers which hewanted to share with all of us.. lost.. jwf from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Fri Jan 2 06:27:57 1998 ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:34:02 GMT Subject: Reelmakers? There's been quite a lot of interest in the possibilities of home reelmaking. I'm really hot to have a go at this. Anyone know of further specific links to help those of us who fancy theprospect of a completely home-made outfit? Maybe there's a place for a reelmakers list. John Cooper (England) from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Fri Jan 2 06:28:45 1998 ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:34:53 GMT Subject: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. ----------Don Burns wrote Tell me what you think of the book - I'm thinking of buying a copy too.Thanks for the tool post idea, I guess I'll need all kinds of extrassoon after buying a lathe. Don B. -Carsten wrote If we're talking Myford Series 7, You better talk to Your bankmangerbeforebuying extras. This is pro stuff and VERY expensive. It allso happens to bethe best. If still talking Series 7, I can snail-mail You a xerox copy oftheir accessory brochure. Just tell me your home address, and it will besent in a week (when my holiday is over) "The Amateur's Lathe" by L. H. Sparry I'm pleased to report that this is an excellent book. It was written yearsago, when Britain still ruled the waves, so the idioms are rather dated.Nevertheless, it has been edited and reprinted several times, and theinformation contained therein is extensive. More importantly, because itiswritten by a highly skilled and enthusiastic amateur, it is pitched at thesort of level most of us will understand. That's not to say that it's for through to SERIOUS metal construction projects. Highly recommended. The Dixon tool post with four tool holders and a parting off tool is £150new retail here in Britain. I bought mine secondhand for £75 (that's about$120). Not cheap, but it transforms the operation of the lathe. Carsten'soffer to snail mail a copy of the Myford accessory brochure is one youshould accept. It shows the Dixon tool post and many other goodies to getyou dribbling involuntarily. Oh yes, the other tool I'd advise, is aSTRADDLE type knurling tool. This applies no destructive sheer pressure tothe lathe bearings, and it works much better than a simple side pressureknurler. (That's always assuming you want to knurl your metal parts onoccasions.) The British Myford, and for that matter the American Southbend, are highquality capital items that you can either afford, or not. If it's just amatter of utility then the Chinese lathe will probably do all that isrequired. There's more to it though. I just love QUALITY. My precisionMyford offers me the sort of pride of ownership to which the cheapo justdoesn't come close. I like expensive shoes, and expect them to last fortwenty-five years. I get enormous pleasure from living with two hundredyearold furniture that was VERY EXPENSIVE when it was new. Quality lasts notjust because it is innately stronger than the alternatives, but becausepeople CARE for it, and admire it for itself. Our cane rods are tools to doa job, but they have a value beyond that - agreed? Precision tools(certainly to me) have a similar value. If you can't afford handmade shoes,Chippendale furniture, Payne rods, and Myford lathes, then you buywhateveralternatives you can afford - and absolutely no disgrace in that. If youhave SPARE money that can add value to your life, then go for it. You can'ttake it with you. One final story. A multi-millionaire friend of mine has several engineeringcompanies, and buys computer controlled lathes by the dozen. He recentlysetup a home workshop to allow him to return to hands-on engineering. With alifetime of knowledge of the subject, and unlimited funds to throw at thepurchase, guess what lathe he bought - yup ........... a Myford. John Cooper (England) from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Jan 2 08:28:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 1/2/98 2:59:29 AM, you wrote: Doug - Well said. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Jan 2 08:39:30 1998 Subject: Re: contact info? Jerry - I think you are talking about Minoru Nakayama - nakayama@katri.kajima.co.jp from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Jan 2 09:14:04 1998 Subject: Lathe work Tom- Libertyville,IL 60048 , phone 847-362-0014 ..or..try Barry Aronson, P.O.Box 115, Massapequa Park, NY 11762 , phone 516-798-6330. I don't knowifeither have a headstock Jacobs chuck but both advertise lathe parts forAtlas'.Dennis from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Jan 2 09:26:00 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Refinishing I have had many inquiries about refinishing old rods and I'm not toosure that I want to begin restorations. Does anyone out there want meto give out their name when I'm asked about an older rod or does anyoneknow people that do refinishing? Thanks. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jan 2 09:27:52 1998 10:27:28 -0600Received: from ccMail by svm.vetmed.wisc.edu (ccMail Linkto SMTP R8.10.00) Subject: Re: The Caneotine Wayne,The Caneotine (I presume this is Cane-o-tine; what is the derivation? I am missing the joke) sounds interesting but your description is a bit obscure. Can you do an ASCII diagram of it? Cheers.Jon McAnulty from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 2 10:11:54 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Carsten -As you have seen from the different responses the terms are defined alittle differently by each - I would suspect that this is partly becauseeachof us fish differently for different species on varied waters. As I said in aearlier post I am a lousy distance caster that is because I fish on petitetrout streams - distance is of little importance - where as Tom andothers onthis list do fish bigger waters where distance does play a role. Because ofthis I make trout rods - those rods that are intended to be fished on waterIhave fished all my life. One of the hats a rodmakers wears is that of wisecounsel to those that they make rods for. I have always felt that arodmakersneeded to be two things - first a guru at making rod and secondly a guru atwhatever fishing style that they market their rods to. from this idea let's backup a bit and start fresh - you want to make arod - so first let's examine how the rod is to be fished - and by who -through this examination you will be able to narrow down the characterthatneeds to be built into the rod.An example - I'm a slouthful flyfisher - I try to use as little energywhen casting as possible - I roll cast better than 50% of the time andmostcasts are 30' or less - plus I fish on brush choked streams. The rod I havecome to use over the years is a 6' 3" parabolic action - the action works atalower line speed than say a 'fast dry fly' action - it fits the personality ofthe caster well. Yet it gives great control for those 'trick' casts needwhenfishing brushy areas. A 'faster' rod would make thing happen too fast and Iwould lose some of the control I have.Once you have decided the 'character' of the needed rod then the otherblanks can be filled in - the distance that the rod action maximizes - theline weight - and any special features you want in the rod (a hinge in thebutt) - Then with this information a rod taper can be gleaned using acomputerprogram or other graphing methods. Then you make the rod.The discussion has been great in illustrating the character of thedifferent actions and hopefully it has opened you to a better understandingofwhat the options are - but it still falls to the individual to make theapplication - the question is ' what is it that you want the rod to do ?' -you do have the control here.And about the length of the casting window - most bamboo fly rod willhavea longer casting window than what plastic rods do - that is they(bamboo)cancast leader only and extend to a confortable distance with grace - thecharacteristic of the stiffer plastic rods is that they will not cast asshortand have a narrower 'sweet spot' of casting. from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Jan 2 10:14:16 1998 (CET) ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:13:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Refinishing ----------Brian wrote I have had many inquiries about refinishing old rods and I'm not toosure that I want to begin restorations. Does anyone out there want meto give out their name when I'm asked about an older rod or does anyoneknow people that do refinishing? Thanks. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com Brian Would love to help you, but you yanks simply live too far away (GRIN) Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Jan 2 10:23:25 1998 (CET) ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:13:29 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. ----------From: J.Cooper Subject: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values.Date: 2. januar 1998 13:28 ----------John Cooper wrote "The Amateur's Lathe" by L. H. Sparry I'm pleased to report that this is an excellent book. It was writtenyearsago, when Britain still ruled the waves, so the idioms are rather dated.Nevertheless, it has been edited and reprinted several times, and theinformation contained therein is extensive. the book was first published in 1948 and is now, I think, in its eigth orninth edition.It contains a chapter of useful additional tools, which canbe made by the reader. Quote: "Value... its unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay too little.When You pay too much you loose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes loose everything, because thethingyou bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting alot. It can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it's well to addsomething for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better." John Ruskin (1819 - 1900) John I do agree with you but have to remark: The quality of the best, be itPaynes, Myfords or whatever, does not show it's full potential, until thethings are USED. Paynes hanging on the wall - no sir. They were built tofish. Myfords are built for turning. In these times too many people withtoo much money buy to much just for the vanity of possesion - not forusing. (Not hinted at your friend with the Myford. I have met a couple ofguys of that type - they want hands on). Unfortunately most people have to make a choice. If I have to choosebetween stuff for my hobbies and paying the mortgage, I feel, I seriouslydo not have a choice. So, lots of times I have to be satisfied with thesecond best. Not that I like it, but thats the way it is for me, and Isuspect, for a lot of people.Still would love to have a brace of Hardys anda couple of Holland & Holland shotguns - and the time and money to use itall to its full potential. John - this is in no way ment as flaming. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jan 2 10:25:16 1998 LAA24700 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:25:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Reed The question I pose back - how were the rods manafactured?If they were from a milling machine then I can see some skillful tuning.If someone has a quality form and has "tuned" his tapers for performancethen the step you described may not be necessary. Chris On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 18:08:59 -0500, Reed F. Curry wrote: I was talking with a friend last week, and blissfully casting variousmakers' rods, when he abruptly brought up the subject of "Rod Tuning".He deals in classic cane, has handled thousands of fine rods, and knows,or has known, many of the top makers. His statement was something totheeffect that most of the new makers didn't tune their rods, and tuningwas an important part of the finishing steps that determined whether arod would be adequate or superb. few thous) from carefully selected portions of the glued, cleaned stick,in order to accentuate the action desired. I have read of this process,and the writer (a friend of Payne's) seemed to take it as a necessarystep in quality manufacture. This leads me to ask, "How many of thelistmembers "tune" their rods in this manner?".Best regards,Reed Regards Chris from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Jan 2 10:28:26 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I like a product called Behlen's Padding finish. It produces a very verythin coat that is mostly penetration. Then follow with a wax finish asdescribed in another excellent post. Ralph Moon from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Jan 2 10:30:16 1998 KAA01022 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:30:14 - (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id KAA09310 for ; Subject: Re: Tuning rods Maybe this is why so many rods of the old masters show a lot ofvariation when mike'd from flat to flat. They've been tuned bysomeone who already has decided on which side the guides will be mounted.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Reed F. Curry wrote: (much deleted...) few thous) from carefully selected portions of the glued, cleaned stick,in order to accentuate the action desired. from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 2 10:47:12 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Jon -Unfortunately what we are testing bamboo for is NO joke - thereAPPEARS tobe some bad bamboo out there and we are just trying to save some thegrief offinding out after the fact. I am working on a drawing of the test jig inCorelDraw 8 and will make it available when done. Wayne from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jan 2 10:52:04 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: reel plans and lathes Terry, I too would be interested in a copy of that article on making afly reel.Patrick Coffey22220 11th PL. SO.Des Moines, WA 98198 In regards to a metal lathe, those wanting one might check with machineshops. A lot of machine shops have switched to NC lathes and have oldSouth Bends around in storage collecting dust. I went to two machineshops here in Seattle and found a 3 foot South Bend tool room lathe with2 three jaw chucks, 1 four jaw chuck, all the change gears, full set ofcolletts and draw bar, and turret tool holder and turret for the tailstock. The guy said make him a offer and I said $200 figuring that beingabsurdly to low and was prepared to negotiate up. To my surprise heaccepted and help me load it in the back of my buddies pick up. To makea L O N G story short he said they had kept it in case they neededsomething like that and all it did was collect dust. You might take aday off and visit a few machine shops, you'd be surprised as what you'llfind. Patrick from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jan 2 11:08:16 1998 12:07:52 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: The Caneotine Wayne,I did not mean to imply that bamboo testing was a joke. Quite the opposite. I have been working on my own ideas for testing methods including static and dynamic testing since there is much opinion and little fact available regarding the effect of many of the variables of rod building on the performance characteristics of the cane. As one example, we (my wife is an engineer and is interested in the problem) are thinking of using a strobe light and video cam to examine the dynamic rebound of the cane to start to get a measure of an active functional parameter in addition to static testing. I am interested because 1) I am a scientist by trade; 2) I wish to better understand the medium; and 3) I want to be able to rationally develop heat treatment and finishing methods that give predictable results for me. My basic approach will be to establish a standard testing method and depending on the variable to be tested either do repeats or, with heat treatment, use a dual approach. First, subject strips to increasing heat and time and plot the results as a 3-dimensional matrix to examine for grossly visual trends. Statistical analysis will be done using the paired t-test method which is more powerful for this type of problem since it uses the pretreatment measurements of each strip as its own control. In my work I use this software frequently so it is no big deal to do the analysis. The second aspect will be to test a specific treatment regimen without incremental heating to compare to the incremental heating results (helps to check for artifacts in the first method). There are many more details that I won't cover here in terms of obtaining results which are valid and useful. So, from this limited nutshell view you can see that I have given this issue serious thought and have serious interest in your device. However, these efforts lie in the future for me as I consider this a long range effort (rodbuilding is a lifetime pursuit, is it not?). The joke I was referring to was in the name of the device. I assumed it was a bit tongue in cheek. Cane-o- is obvious. However, where does 'tine' come in? Look forward to your diagram.Jon McAnulty from tom@cet-inc.com Fri Jan 2 11:20:18 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I switched recently to a process published in "Fine Woodworking" forhand rubbed finish on furniture. It's a mix of equal parts ofTurpentine, Spar Varnish, and Boiled linseed oil. Poly varnish can alsobe used. The mixture is applied, left tack, and then wiped with a cloth.Three to four applications needed for domestics such as oak or walnut.When thoroughly dry, wax finish can be used. Good penetration into woodand also better waterproofing as compared to rubbed "oil only" finishes.Thought it might be worth trying as a finish for a rod but haven't triedit yet. Tom Whittle from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 2 12:44:06 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Jon -Let's start fresh. A short while ago it was discovered that some bamboohad become moldy - the question that came out of this was how did (if atall)that affect the strength of the bamboo. This then brought up the fact thateven with much discussion - there has never been a shared method oftestingSome have done testing of the different heat treating methods but......Anywaya friend and fellow maker asked what I thought and I couldn't give him ananswer based on anything tangable. The quest then became to create a testfixture that would take the quess work out of the picture and replace itwithfact. The end result was something that resembled a quillotine somewhat- thusthe name Caneotine ( even in the worst I try to find humor). What it isverbally is a slide (blunt ended) made of 1/2" baltic birch (my favorite jigmaterial) that comes to rest on a strip of bamboo that has been planed toaspecific dimension - in this case .125". The bamboo is supported by 'v'blocksthat are spaced at 6" -with the slide striking the strip at exact center. Aflat block was added to the top of the slide so that weights could beadded.The tests occured at the friends place and he handily had a bar bell setwitha variety of weights which worked for the test.To make the test real it was decided that a variety of samples wereneeded of some showing the effects of the mold and others free of thevisualgreying and that more than one sample of each group should be involved. As with anything new neither of us knew how much weight it wouldtake orhow separrated the results might be. There was some surprise when theweightrequired to break the .125" samples rose to 8 3/4# - tough stuff -unfortunately the greyed samples didn't fair as well - they broke withonly 61/4# weight - then another sample of good took a whole 9# . The test wasrunthrough again but the results showed the same spread. This test told usthatthe mold had a definate effect on the strength of bamboo - believed to be abreakdown of the vascular structure. OK - so you have these results - which in our minds is telling us that themolded bamboo is lesser quality stuff and convinced us both that we didn'twant to use it to make rods with - it then becomes a moral issue of whattosay and what to not say - behind the list I can talk to the one's I knowcloser with a little more freedom - but to the list in general what do youdo- a neutral approach would be to say that here is this neat idea of how totest something and hope that others picked up on it and followed throughto dotesting of their own. Well that failed - How do you tell folks bad newsanyway- A few times I know I have looked the butthead to the group - which isfine -At time in good conscience I feel I have to say something and let othersmakeup their own minds. This is perhaps the case here. I'm trying to politelysaythat there is a real problem with some bamboo and to get others toinvestigateas well. As for a drawing - it will be perhaps a couple of weeks - I go on theroad again shortly and life becomes more hectic - I hope the verbal mighbe ofhelp Wayne from jczimny@dol.net Fri Jan 2 13:06:06 1998 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Reed,I agree with Chris. We're all working to get the best tapers that wecan. We try hard to get all the other variables the same (glue, varnish,guides etc.). Then we can see how to change the thing by accuratelycutting the taper. If it doesn't work, then we put that rod in thestove, and modify the "taper" and cut again.I have heard of this practice of which you speak. I don't think many ofthe great craftsmen did this except maybe to flatten a node or perhapsremove a little left-over glue. It's obvious to any maker that removingenough material from the outside of the rod to make an obviousmodification to the action would risk taking too much power fiber fromthe shaft. I, for one, would never sell a rod which had been so "tuned". I'llcontinue to "tune" my rods from the "inside".John from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jan 2 13:11:15 1998 14:10:51 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: The Caneotine Wayne,Thanks. After a few read-throughs the image of what you aredescribing suddenly became clear. I plan to do testing in the future as I ponder the variable choices in rod construction. A standardized method is the only way to compare results so you are ahead of the curve on this one. The strip thickness is an important variable to standardize (.125 as you mentioned) but how long a strip are you using? Are you looking at end- deflection (ie. does the strip stick out and you bend the end like the end of a rod?) or are you inducing deflection between the supports? In either of these scenarios the deflection distance and weight supported will relate to the lever arm that is present. So, depending on the answer to the above questions, how far past the supports is the slide/weights placed or how long a segment is tested in the case of deflection between supports (assuming the weight would be centered)? Also, are you testing the strip with the rind side in tension or compression (I was assuming tension with an end-deflection method and compression with a between the supports method unlessthe apex of the triangle is turned up)? The mold issue is clearly an important one and from my previous reading your findings have gone against previous conventional (untested) wisdom that seemed to indicate that mold wasn't a problem if the cane is dry and are thus highly significant. JonP.S. Your book and tapes are tops. What an outstanding effort in terms of putting together a realistic "how-to" manual. In the tapes I noticed you have an unusual...ah...er...."screen presence". ;-) Thanks for the effort. from jczimny@dol.net Fri Jan 2 13:16:08 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Hi Ralph,How does the Behlen's hold up? And do you know what it is-Laquer, thinvarnish, or shellac? How do you apply it? ie. Do you apply it on thelath?John from RBausum@radiantsystems.com Fri Jan 2 13:30:47 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: The Caneotine Would this indicate that maybe all cane is tested in this manner? Wouldthisbe a measure of better cane in general? An interesting test! Having only been a reader of this server; waiting in my life when I will have the time to build my own rod, I have aquestion? Was there any thought in the direction of "molding" the samples thatperformed well?Maybe break down a single cane sample as follows: Select a single piece of cane; between 2 nodes.split this into 4 or more equal pieces. piece 1) should be preserved as well as possible.piece 2) should be exposed to the outdoor weather without protectionpiece 3) should be exposed to mold/forced into a moldy state ifpossible.piece 4) should kept submerged in a jar of water? Perform the same weight tests over a period of time, monthly?. Slicing an inch at a time. I would love to volunteer to perform this lengthy endeavor except I have neither the time nor the cane. Thanks to Wayne for his effort!!! [ Wayne Catt ]As with anything new neither of us knew how much weight it wouldtake orhow separated the results might be. There was some surprise whenthe weightrequired to break the .125" samples rose to 8 3/4# - tough stuff-unfortunately the greyed samples didn't fair as well - theybroke with only 61/4# weight - then another sample of good took a whole 9# . Thetest was runthrough again but the results showed the same spread. This testtold us thatthe mold had a definate effect on the strength of bamboo -believed to be abreakdown of the vascular structure. from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 2 14:14:05 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Jon - To add further clearity - the 12" strips were centered in the "v" blockswhich are permanently mounted so that the slide arm rests on thecenterline ofthe bamboo strips (lengthwise) - the pieces were flamed and heat treatedinthe same manner. The enamel was placed facing up so that it and the slidemetface to face. The question that we wanted to answer was whether or not there was adifference in the strength of the samples - which I think we answered.Laterthe same jig could be used to investigate differences in heat treating andsuch.Now I'm sure that there will be a certain amount of variation from culmtoculm and heat treating to heat treating but I feel that we have alreadyseenthat - there was a small differance between the 'good' strips (1/4#) andgiventime the weights can be graduated more - say to 1/8# or 1/16#increments formore subtile changes. And too as others look at it I'm sure that there will be severalrevisions and better insight into what is being shown through the tests. Iconsider what we did as just a start. WayneWhen I first started taping the video I did it right as I got home fromwork - but it was quickly discovered that you could hear the dog and kidsandTV in the background - then the taping schedule shifted to start at11:00pmwhen everyone except myself was in bed. So first I set up the shot andstartedthe camera and then raced around front and did the thing - It became oneofthose Do Yourself In projects - At first I thought no problem just make arod- if you look real close you will notice that the rod parts grow and shrink-It took making 5 rods to get the job done. Next time (ha ha ha) thing mightbea little different. But Thanks for the kind words> from christophe.lievremont@planetb.fr Fri Jan 2 14:32:29 1998 casimir.planetb.fr (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11139 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:29:48 GMT Subject: RE. Re: Newcommer and about silk lines Brian Creek wrote :Christophe - Thanks for your input.I too like the parabolic actions of P&M, htey strongly influenced one ofthe US's premier rodmakers, the late Paul Young, in designing hisparabolic series rods. P&M rods turn up for sale over on this side ofthe pond not infrequently, and they don't sell for that much, either. Brian ------- Very interesting Brian, I didn't know that the Pezon and Michel taper hasinfluenced some US rods. Just thought IMHO that the majority of themwerefaster than our European rods. Regards. Christophe.(In Digest). _________________________________________________________________ Christophe LIEVREMONT e-mail: Christophe.lievremont@planetb.fr1 bis rue Pasteur Tel/Fax.: (33) 03 80 38 13 7921000 DIJON (Fax in operation when theFRANCE Macintosh it depends on isswitched on) í Jus est ars boni et aequi O(D. I, I, lex 1, Ulpianus lib. I Institutionum) from christophe.lievremont@planetb.fr Fri Jan 2 14:32:37 1998 casimir.planetb.fr (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11147 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:29:57 GMT Subject: RE. Re: Newcommer and about silk lines Michael Leitheiser wrote :Maybe,.....This is kind of a chicken and egg thing. Young was buildingcomplex parabolic tapers prior to WW II. His 1927 catalog listed 4modelswith what he called "compound tapers" that some writers view asforerunnersof the Para 15s 17s etc. Ritz writes in "A Flyfishers Life" that the termparabolic was first used commercially in 1937 (when Ritz returned toEuropeafter 10 years in the U.S.). In 1936 there was some cross fertilization(Ritz and Payne discussed and compared rods). Ritz, Creusevaut and crewdid not perfect the Pezon et' Michel PPP Tapers until 1949.(Again,according to Ritz in "A Flyfishers Life") Payne introduced Parabolic tapers in this country in his pre WW IIcatalog.It is interesting to note that Ritz wrote the dedication to the chapter onrods in "A Flyfishers Life" as follows: "I dedicate the Chapters on tackleto the House of Hardy and to Jim Payne, who have been my inspiration." I fish a Fario Club and a Super Colorado PPP and I have had the pleasure ofcasting a couple of Young rods (though never a Payne). The Young tapersare much more complex and require (imho) a higher degree of castingskillsthan the Pezon et' Michel tapers. The point of all this is that from a historical perspective, a good casecan be made that Young and others independantly developed similar taperconcepts. There is evidence that both Ritz and Young interacted with andadmired Payne, but in terms of chronology, Young appears to have beenexperimenting with complex tapers prior to Ritz. (Remember, Ritz wasassembling rods from disparate parts in the 30s...Young was planningtapers from culm to glued up rod as early as 1927) Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane ------- Thanks for all these complete precisions, Mike. Christophe. from christophe.lievremont@planetb.fr Fri Jan 2 14:32:42 1998 casimir.planetb.fr (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11164 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:30:06 GMT Subject: Re. A Garbolino Question John A. Whitaker wrote : I'm sorry to waste bandwidth on a non FF question, but... I have justlearned about Garbolino Poles and looking for a source to buy. Doesanyone know of a US distributor or someone who will ship to the states.Also, if anyone has any experience fishine these (especuially our UKfriends) I would appreciate being contacted off list for some buyingadvice. -------------- No problem John, the French company garbolino makes too fishing rods ;- )(many spinning and bait rods + just a few fly fishing rods even IMHO theyare not exactly what I shall call a fly rod). Actually I am not in my place of residence, so I can't have a look on mydifferent magazines and give you the address of this company but if youwant, when I shall be back in my home next week I can have a look onthem.Just tell me it. In that way you will be able to know if it is better to import themdirectly from France ( from a French seller or from their company) or tobuyit from the US distributor. Cheers. Christophe. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Jan 2 15:56:06 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine At 13:36 02/01/98 EST, Wayne wrote to Jon via the listJon -Let's start fresh. A short while ago it was discovered that somebamboohad become moldy - the question that came out of this was how did (if atall)that affect the strength of the bamboo. This then brought up the fact thateven with much discussion - there has never been a shared method oftestingSome have done testing of the different heat treating methods but ...... Jon & Wayne, Am right pleased that others have put some thought into testing of cane.While I was doing testing on heat treating a number of years ago, I didn'tinclude a breakage test but tried to envision just what a rod was designedto do: - deliver the cast- fight the fish from those thoughts, I used 3 test methods. Deflection test - the strip was mounted 30 degrees above horizontal andsupported @ the butt end. A measurement was taken vertically from thetipto the support structure. A weight was attached and the deflectionrecorded. This test was designed to determine the relative strengths ofthecane samples subjected to heat treatment methods being tested. Set test - a strip was supported similar to the above and a measurementtaken vertically from the tip to the support structure. A weight wasattached and left for a period of time. The weight was removed and theresultant was measured and recorded. The difference in height frombeforeand after the weight determined the response of the strip after fighting alarger fish and whether the cane would take a "set". Oscillation/damping test - the strip was supported in "V" blockshorizontally with the power fibers upwards. The strip was flexeddownwardto a preset value and released. The release method used was the back of aknife to give the strip as much as possible the opportunity to oscillate ina vertical manner. This test was designed to measure the dampeningactionin the rod material required to stop the secondary wave that occurs in theline when the tip travels over the horizontal during the forward/backwardstroke. This secondary wave in the line reduces line speed due to windresistance. This last test was a partial failure as the cane doesn'toscillate vertically for a long period of time. The strip tends to want tooscillate in a oval manner no matter how accurate the release method.Frommy conversations with others who use the oscillation test on finishedsections to determine the weak/strong side of a rod, they suggested thatfew finished rods will oscillate vertically for any period of time. As the testing was done to reflect the differences between strips of canethat had been subjected to various types and temp/time of heat treatingthere was little thought put into the actual strength values therefore nobreakage test. While a breakage test does have merit, is it the only thing to be used orshould we look @ the other characteristics of what makes a rod material. PS: The testing I did a number of years ago was replicated and confirmedbyTom Fulk and published in the last issue of the Planning Form. regards, Don Andersen from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Jan 2 16:35:37 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts J. C. Zimny wrote: Hi Ralph,How does the Behlen's hold up? And do you know what it is-Laquer, thinvarnish, or shellac? How do you apply it? ie. Do you apply it on thelath?John John I am sorry I was so short on information. I was in a bit of ahurry. The padding finish was originally made to coat pool cues, and is aturning finish. It requires a lathe for application. I generally use asmall pad of clean soft cloth, and just barely moisten the pad. (Myoriginal pint four years old still has about an inch in the bottle.) andapply it to the turning piece. I grip firmly and when the pad becomesnoticeably warm it is done., but should be allowed to sit for an hour orso before the was finish is put on. I am reasonably sure it is a lacquerof some type, but certainly not the same as regular commercial brushingorspraying lacquer. The solvent is different from lacquer thinner. It puts on a surprisingly simple coat and the finish seems to last. atleast four years, and may reel seats I did not wax. I understand Behlen'sputs out a turning finish as well, but I have not tried it and do not knowthe difference between the two. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jan 2 16:51:51 1998 RAA00246 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:51:56 -0500 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Wayne Giving some thought to the testing and getting a reasonable measureof what we are testing and how. I would suggest to document also wherethestrip came from in the culm and nodal spacing of that section. Also thepercieveddepth of power fiber in the cross section prior to dimensioning to .125. Also thedimension of the culm at the section to be tested. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jan 2 16:58:35 1998 RAA00382 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:58:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Tuning rods John / Reed If you really want to "tune" a rod - let's talk about guide spacing,then matching a line to rod, and then establishing a good balance with aproper weightreel. As you know this can really change the perception of a rod instantly.Not much is said about guide spacing - it is the forgotten ingredient inbuilding a great rod. Taper alone is not enough. Regards Chris from DEMARALON@aol.com Fri Jan 2 17:56:11 1998 Subject: Re: Get-to-gether in Fergus? Contact Ted Knott at e-mail: teekay35@interlynx.net Harold Demarest, Charles H.Demarest, Inc. from longroge@isu.edu Fri Jan 2 18:05:38 1998 Subject: Idaho beginner I've been interested in making bamboo rods for quite some time, and I'mjustgetting started on building my first planing form. I'm wondering if thereareany other rodmakers in the eastern Idaho area on the list. Roger Long from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 2 18:07:44 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine RO>- A few times I know I have looked the butthead to the group - whichis fineRO>At time in good conscience I feel I have to say something and letothers makRO>up their own minds. This is perhaps the case here. I'm trying to politelysaRO>that there is a real problem with some bamboo and to get others toinvestigaRO>as well.RO> As for a drawing - it will be perhaps a couple of weeks - I go on theRO>road again shortly and life becomes more hectic - I hope the verbalmigh beRO>help RO>Wayne Wayne, In no way would most of us (I hope I speak for the group) ever consideryou to be a butthole for speaking the truth. (or even your own very realopinions) I'd even like to cut some locally grown cane and send it off to beguillotined - just to see how bad it is. Do you anchor the ends of do you let them float free? I'd be interestedin some more details of your machine, I think 1/8" cane, over a 6" gap,will sag quite a bit under static load (IMHO). Your idea sounds close tothe Charpie (sp?) "V" notch metal tester, but without the notch. Wouldn't a piece of cane placed into a fixture with a weight suppendedoff the other end be more akin to the loads applied during a cast? Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 2 18:07:46 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine RO>WayneRO> When I first started taping the video I did it right as I got homefromRO>work - but it was quickly discovered that you could hear the dog andkids anRO>TV in the background - then the taping schedule shifted to start at11:00pmRO>when everyone except myself was in bed. So first I set up the shot andstartRO>the camera and then raced around front and did the thing - It becameone ofRO>those Do Yourself In projects - At first I thought no problem just makea roRO>- if you look real close you will notice that the rod parts grow andshrinkRO>It took making 5 rods to get the job done. Next time (ha ha ha) thingmightRO>a little different. But Thanks for the kind words> Wayne, I recall you saying that you were going to be revising your book, [Book,Handcrafting, Fly Rods, Bamboo - Mark I Mod 2 (rev X-98), color- white,one each] any chance to get an old binder "refilled" at a discount? Maybe send back the title page first - like one does with softwareupdates? Don Burns from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jan 2 18:53:17 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Greg, I build reel seats and other components. I dip my fillers in HelmsmanSparUrathane. Usually three coats. Lightly sanding in between coats.Just makesureyou leave around .010in. for the varnish or the filler will be too big aroundafteryour done. This is a very hard,glossy finish. I've been using it for years. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Jan 2 19:04:15 1998 Subject: 60* Pt. Received my 60* pt. in the mail today. Now I can get to work on myforms and stop bothering you guys. Thanks! Steve from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jan 2 19:06:16 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. Another good book to get on lathe operation is. The Home Shop Machinist.It costs $26.50 per year for a subscription. There address is:The Home Shop MachinistP. O. Box 1810Traverse City, Michigan 49685-1810 I don't have there phone number Dave LeClair from linesides@email.msn.com Fri Jan 2 19:16:37 1998 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:16:04 -0800 SMTPSVC;Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:16:02 -0800 Subject: restoration Could really use some help restoring 2 rods I recently came across.One rod is 6 1/2 ft. the other 5 1/2 ft. Both need to be glued backtogether and the longer needs to be straightened. The ones I`ve doneso far haven`t been in this serious shape. These are not fly rods, butboat / pier poles. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Kevin from EMiller257@aol.com Fri Jan 2 19:27:28 1998 Subject: Re: Resolutions Sounds good Bill. Do you make them nodeless or just splice tip and buttpieces? Or do you start with a full 12 ft. culm? Your expertice isappreciated. Ed Miller from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Jan 2 20:03:16 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod I missed something. What's "the Force?" Brian from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Jan 2 20:37:50 1998 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Chris Bogart wrote: John / Reed If you really want to "tune" a rod - let's talk about guidespacing,then matching a line to rod, and then establishing a good balancewith a proper weightreel. As you know this can really change the perception of a rodinstantly.Not much is said about guide spacing - it is the forgotten ingredientinbuilding a great rod. Taper alone is not enough. Chris,You mention1/ Line.2/ Guide spacing.but you forgot:3/ Finish - too heavy or soft will affect performance.The better old rods had a thin finish.4/ Guide type - small, low profile snakes keep the lineunder control and, despite prevailing opinions, do not generate any morecontact with the line than large snakes.5/ Windings - some intermediates might perk up anotherwise sluggish rod.etc.Best regards,ReedP.S. - I still think that "tuning" which involves removal of enamelshould not be decried, but rather is just another tool in the hand of acraftsman. Each piece of cane from each culm is different, adjusting theplaning form may not give you the control you may need, IMHO. from SealRite@aol.com Fri Jan 2 20:48:33 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Elbow You can get an elastic splint that relieves the pressure & strain on theelbow. They are sold by most drug stores. They fit right below the elbow. Craig from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Fri Jan 2 21:18:51 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. At 07:55 PM 1/2/98 EST, Dave LeClair wrote: Another good book to get on lathe operation is. The Home Shop Machinist.It costs $26.50 per year for a subscription. There address is:The Home Shop MachinistP. O. Box 1810Traverse City, Michigan 49685-1810 I don't have there phone number The phone number is 800-447-7367 or you can connect at: http://members.aol.com/vpshop/hsm.htm Later,Johnny------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 2 21:25:06 1998 Subject: Re: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod Carsten,I built a number of 8 ', 3 pc. straight line taper rods for #7 line oneof which would cast delicately 25' of #7 line AND 110' of #7 line withoutdouble hauling(I have no fingers on my right hand). Put an 8 wgt. on it andthe parameters shrink considerably. I have no explanation nor have I beenableto duplicate it, but I'll keep trying.Happy NewYear to you and the rest of this great list.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 2 21:43:19 1998 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Reed,I don't know if what I do would be considered tuning but I do file thefinished sticks for crtain dimensions if my glued dimensions are a bit offI.e. toomuch off the tip so some wood is removed further down the line tooraise the stress back up to close to the original theory,etc. regards,Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Fri Jan 2 22:01:05 1998 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Ofcourse, remove the enamel. But one can remove the enamel before itgoes to the final cutting. Thus, the outer surface of the strip isperfectly flat and provides accurate registration on the mill or in theplanning fixture. In tweaking design specs, it is wise to work with one variable at atime.John from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Jan 3 04:10:27 1998 (CET) ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:07:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Wayne wrote The discussion has been great in illustrating the character of thedifferent actions and hopefully it has opened you to a betterunderstanding ofwhat the options are - but it still falls to the individual to make theapplication - the question is ' what is it that you want the rod to do ?'-you do have the control here. When posting my question about a "powerfull" 8 foot rod, I, rather naively,hoped somebody would have some sort of recipe for "THE rod". You nowthatrod, it simply does it all perfectly: short and long casting, roll- casting,all of it. It is perfect for wide river fishing, as well as fishing 4 feetwide streams. Years of fishing different plastic rods never revealed THErod. Enter splitcane rods. Since fishing my first cane rod I have neverlooked back. First I strived to master the necessary techniques: tempering, planing,gluing. Got reasonably good at it. building rods for friends, restoring oldrods. By the help of one good friend in particular I reached the stagewhere I could say: This is not bad, in fact, it is rather good. You mightknow the feeling - one compares ones own rods to factorymade ones, andtheyare alike in looks and feeling. Next stage was joining Rodmakers. Once again, a whole new game started:stress curves. Sir D back in october 1997 gave an explanation, basic hesays, of how to read stress curves. That, and the Hexrod programme hasonceagain started the search for THE rod. The debate "subject 8' #6 dryfly rod"has, once again, given me tools for the quest for THE rod. Whats is new isthe knowledge, that this taper simply does not exist. But as You wiselyremarks, the discussion has opened my eyes to the question: What do Iwantthis rod to do - and to the possibility of making that rod. Ahead lies many rods. I never wanted to be a guru, but aquireing knowledgeas a rodmaker, in some way or another, does include the obligation tosharethat knowledge. That is, IMHO, what this this list is about. In my ownhumble way I try to introduce that knowledge to friends and foes alike. Ifthat makes me a (very small) guru, so be it. you do have the control here from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Jan 3 04:45:04 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA12992 for; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:42:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod --Hank (FISHWOOL) wrote----Carsten,I built a number of 8 ', 3 pc. straight line taper rods for #7 lineoneof which would cast delicately 25' of #7 line AND 110' of #7 linewithoutdouble hauling(I have no fingers on my right hand). Put an 8 wgt. on itandthe parameters shrink considerably. I have no explanation nor have I beenableto duplicate it, but I'll keep trying.Happy NewYear to you and the rest of this great list.Hank. Hank I have a 7 feet of own construction, made from a little bit of this and alittle bit of that. By sheer coincidence it's a joy to fish with a #3 WF.It was made just to examine a different way of hardening. (my soft spottogether with the quality of cane) Due to a computer break down I lost thetaper. (Real men don't do back-ups,they just cry when something goeswrong)Build by the odd scraps, I cant duplicate it. So I think I now how Youfeel. Happy New Year to You too Carsten from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Jan 3 05:30:44 1998 ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:36:56 GMT Subject: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. At 17:06 02/01/98 +0100, you wrote: ----------From: J.Cooper Subject: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values.Date: 2. januar 1998 13:28 ----------John Cooper wrote "The Amateur's Lathe" by L. H. Sparry I'm pleased to report that this is an excellent book. It was writtenyearsago, when Britain still ruled the waves, so the idioms are rather dated.Nevertheless, it has been edited and reprinted several times, and theinformation contained therein is extensive. the book was first published in 1948 and is now, I think, in its eigth orninth edition.It contains a chapter of useful additional tools, which canbe made by the reader. Quote: "Value... its unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay too little.When You pay too much you loose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes loose everything, because thethingyou bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and gettingalot. It can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it's well to addsomething for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better." John Ruskin (1819 - 1900) John I do agree with you but have to remark: The quality of the best, be itPaynes, Myfords or whatever, does not show it's full potential, until thethings are USED. Paynes hanging on the wall - no sir. They were built tofish. Myfords are built for turning. In these times too many people withtoo much money buy to much just for the vanity of possesion - not forusing. (Not hinted at your friend with the Myford. I have met a couple ofguys of that type - they want hands on). Unfortunately most people have to make a choice. If I have to choosebetween stuff for my hobbies and paying the mortgage, I feel, I seriouslydo not have a choice. So, lots of times I have to be satisfied with thesecond best. Not that I like it, but thats the way it is for me, and Isuspect, for a lot of people.Still would love to have a brace of Hardys anda couple of Holland & Holland shotguns - and the time and money to use itall to its full potential. John - this is in no way ment as flaming. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen Can't argue with any of that Carsten, except that Boss (London) shotgunsarePROFOUNDLY better than Holland & Holland. Not many of them around, andthey're incredibly expensive. Like the RIGHT fishing rod in the RIGHTsituation - the Boss just melds with the user - becomes part of him - almostdisappears. Fancy you knowing that old Ruskin quote. I use it in my own company'ssalesbrochures. Never quite felt the same about Ruskin since I failed to get intoRuskin College (Oxford). It wasn't the old fart's fault - he was sixty-oddyears dead, but the name still rankles after 35 years. He's reckoned to beone of the millennium's great pedants, but you can't gainsay his addictionto quality. John Cooper (England) from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Jan 3 08:53:26 1998 Subject: Leonard "Twin Peaks" Listers This regards Sir D's reference to the Leonard 6'10" listed in the taperarchive. Can anyone tell me whether this is a three-piece rod? Also, has somebodycastit? Can you tell me anything about the way it performs? Thanks,Davy from jfoster@gte.net Sat Jan 3 10:55:57 1998 Subject: arc mac-creator="4D4F5353" Dec archives posted jwf from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Jan 3 12:51:06 1998 Subject: Re: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod -----Original Message----- Carsten,I built a number of 8 ', 3 pc. straight line taper rods for #7 lineoneof which would cast delicately 25' of #7 line AND 110' of #7 line withoutdouble hauling(I have no fingers on my right hand). Put an 8 wgt. on it andthe parameters shrink considerably. I have no explanation nor have I beenableto duplicate it, but I'll keep trying.Happy NewYear to you and the rest of this great list. Hank. Happy New Year Hank. I hope someday to see the rod and you casting andmaybe learn how one casts such long distances! I've always wanted acastingteacher to show me what is really going on. Ted G. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Jan 3 13:01:35 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: dumb question???? Where can I get the best of the Planing Form, address? phone number? Patrick from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Sat Jan 3 13:51:58 1998 Subject: Re: dumb question???? At 11:01 AM 1/3/98 -0800, Patrick wrote: Where can I get the best of the Planing Form, address? phone number? Address is: Alder Creek Enterprises, Inc.PO Box 365Hastings, MI 49058 Price is $29.95 plus $3.50 for postage and handling. ($5.00 p&h for Canada,$10.00 outside N. America) Later,Johnny------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Jan 3 14:41:50 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA24463 for; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:38:19 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod ----------From: Brian & Michelle Creek Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rodDate: 3. januar 1998 03:01 I missed something. What's "the Force?" Brian Brian Larry wrote "Carsten; you'd be hard pressed to beat Wayne's 8' 6wt. When we cast therodpictured on the front of his book, it was promptly dubbed "The Force". Larry Blan" Best regards Carsten from Bopep@aol.com Sat Jan 3 16:22:41 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I've been using a epoxy floor finish called Glitsa, it has it' pluses andminuses.Pluses:Cures really hard...very scratch resistant.After 4 coats, you buff out any brush strokesit's glossy as heck!Minuses:It has a limited pot life after mixing of only 3 days so you hafta mixsmallbatches at a ratio of 20/1.Ya gotta buy it in 1gal. cans at about $50.It's toxic as hell!! I always wear a mask...some flooring contractors won'tuse it for this reason I'm going to try the helmsman soon... Rob Hoffhines from Bopep@aol.com Sat Jan 3 16:47:13 1998 Subject: Re:Gillum 8' 6wt... This is a taper of my second rod and it still blows me away. I miced itovervarnish, subtracted 4 thou and it turned out to be a good shooter for theRoaring Fork. It's a fun action, but I would never call it lyrical. the stresscurve looks pretty goofy compared to others I've hexrodded...butneverthelessit shoots line like a M.F. It even did "okay" casting clousers for Kankakeeriver smallmouths this fall but I'm planning (planing?) on a para 15 forthatduty next year.Oh yes, does anybody have a Payne 201? 01 .07305 .10010 .11815 .14520 .16125 .17530 .18235 .19140 .20345 .21250 .24055 .25660 .27865 .29870 .30975 .32780 .35185 .35590 .35595 .355 Rob Hoffhines from brewer@teleport.com Sat Jan 3 17:05:22 1998 PAA28107 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:05:06 - Subject: Wanted: Granger Jasper Silk Last year, Bob Corsetti had some spools (900 yards or so) of 00 Granger orange jasper silk thread. I should have bought one then, but, well you know... If anyone has a spare spool (orange or b&w) and is willing to sell, please reply. Thanks, Randy Brewer Ya think? from mathieu@compmore.net Sat Jan 3 17:09:54 1998 SAA09307 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:08:58 - "john"via SMTP by mail.compmore.net, id smtpd009302; Sat Jan 3 18:08:561998 Subject: How to change address D7E98ED1507F17CD0B6B0B48" --------------D7E98ED1507F17CD0B6B0B48 I have change my email address and I would now like to have the listcomming to my new address instead of this address. How do I do it?? Mynew address is jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca. I would like it if this couldhappen soon. Thanks for your help in this matter John McKinnon --------------D7E98ED1507F17CD0B6B0B48 I have change my email address and I would now like to have the listcomming Mynew address is jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca. Iwould like it if this could happen soon. Thanks for your help in thismatter John McKinnon --------------D7E98ED1507F17CD0B6B0B48-- from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Jan 3 17:44:24 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod Thanks. Sometimes there are so many posts on this list my deleter'sspeed exceeds my ability to read. Brian from DRBRAD4D@aol.com Sat Jan 3 18:25:29 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 200 I was interested in building Payne's 200 4 wt 3 pc. rod. However, there isnolisting with the taper as to the size of the ferrules. Does anyone knowwhatthe ferrule sizes would be? Moreover, what is the line weight for the PaulYoung Para 15 and ferrule size for that rod? Thanks,Brad from DRBRAD4D@aol.com Sat Jan 3 18:31:15 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps I've built 5 bamboo rods thus far and I am having a problem with thepolyurethane cracking at the bamboo-ferrule wrap. Does anyone haveinsight asto why this might be happening? Thanks,Brad from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 3 19:03:26 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps In a message dated 98-01-03 19:40:28 EST, you write: I've built 5 bamboo rods thus far and I am having a problem with thepolyurethane cracking at the bamboo-ferrule wrap. Does anyone have insight as to why this might be happening? I've wondered about this myself. The two piece rods I've made doesn'tdo this, but the three piece rods I've made do. It's always the lowerwrap of the lower ferrule. I was able to look at quite a number of older rods recently, and I'dsay about half of them had the same problem, especially the multi-piece rods, although there were a few two piecers that had the samecracking. All the Orvis cane rods I saw had the cracking on the lowerwrap, multi-piece or not. Darryl Hayashida from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat Jan 3 19:04:06 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps Brad: Whole lot a flexin' goin' on. What kind of poly did you use? Have youconsidered traditional spar varnish for the wraps? This helps to minimizetheproblem but doesn't totally eliminate it. --Rich from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 3 19:16:07 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 98-01-03 05:14:37 EST, you write: When posting my question about a "powerfull" 8 foot rod, I, rathernaively,hoped somebody would have some sort of recipe for "THE rod". You nowthatrod, it simply does it all perfectly: short and long casting, roll- casting,all of it. It is perfect for wide river fishing, as well as fishing 4 feetwide streams. It doesn't exist. That's why flyfishermen have to own several rods. I currently own 6 graphite rods, and 8 bamboo rods. I've reduced the rods I am going to settle on to five. 9 ft. 8wt. graphite (far in the future, for if I ever go afterbigger species)9 ft. 6wt. graphite (already own this one) 8 ft. 6wt. bamboo (traded for this one)7 ft. 4wt. bamboo (already made this one)6 ft. 3 in. 2wt. bamboo (in the process of making this one) Sure you can have one rod to fish in all situations, but you'llhave to put up with the fact that you will be "overgunned" in many situations and "undergunned" in many situations. Of all of my rods, the one that I use for the most fishing situations is the 7ft. 4wt. If I have to I can double haul andcast in the 60 ft. range, but it still does a good job when thecast is so short only the leader is out past the tip. There simply isn't only one rod that will do it all perfectly. Darryl Hayashida from DRBRAD4D@aol.com Sat Jan 3 20:01:04 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps I'm using varathane marine spar varnish. Brad from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Jan 3 20:55:44 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps I'm using varathane marine spar varnish. Brad My .02 worth: I use spar urethane and have no problem if and only if I donot run the thread down more than a single wrap onto the bamboo. With apinned ferrule, this seems to me to be ok. Ted G. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Jan 3 21:58:35 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps How did you prepare the tabs of the ferrules that were used on these 5rods??? Did you taper them ??? Did you crown them to further reduce theenddimension?? What you have described is a 'casting fracture' and by firstcrowning the ferrule tabs and then tapering them as well the tabs becomemoreflexible and lengthen the transition from rigid to flexing. Also when gluingthe ferrules on do you invert the rod section so that any sagging will acttofill the gap between rod section to ferrule wall. Another factor is the sizeand type of thread that you are using. Here there is a balance betweenthreadsize and holding strength - '00' nylon is the norm - but a size 'A' has moreholding - silk of equal size has less strength and the smaller silks haveevenless yet. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jan 3 22:36:46 1998 Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:36:38 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod When posting my question about a "powerfull" 8 foot rod, I, rathernaively,hoped somebody would have some sort of recipe for "THE rod". You nowthatrod, it simply does it all perfectly: short and long casting, roll- casting,all of it. It is perfect for wide river fishing, as well as fishing 4 feetwide streams. Darryl says:It doesn't exist. That's why flyfishermen have to own several rods. I currently own 6 graphite rods, and 8 bamboo rods. Of all of my rods, the one that I use for the most fishing situations is the 7ft. 4wt. If I have to I can double haul andcast in the 60 ft. range, but it still does a good job when thecast is so short only the leader is out past the tip. There simply isn't only one rod that will do it all perfectly. Darryl Hayashida Darryl mention this little rod a lot and for good reason. It casts a short line well, roll casts very well and as Darryl says, when double hauled will cast 60'+I find myself using this rod which I made for my son when I prob should be using a rod with more backbone because of conditions like strong current/big fish simply because it is so nice a rod. This does leave me somewhat under gunned sometimes though. I'm repairing the tip now due to breaking it while netting a biggish fish. I think it was a combination of too strong a tippet due to bottom bouncing nymphs in a strong current and the rod being a little short to allow enough spring when the fish flicks about up close during netting. I could be wrong about that but it all happens so fast it's hard to tell. I recently made a PHY Driggs for a fellow who wanted me to fish it before sending it on to him (lucky me) and liking paras as I do, I prefer this rod for similar fishing conditions as it will cast further and with a heavier fly for me. It may not roll cast as well and seems to handle fish about the same.Which one is better is dependent on your style and mood at the time.Owning both is recomended but that's only for this type of fishing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from EMiller257@aol.com Sat Jan 3 23:29:50 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods I have a Heddon 3 piece rod that is in sorry shape but the reel seat is OK. Ibought it several years ago along with a slightly better rod, an 8ft., 3pc"Expert". Let me know if your interested. Ed Miller (EMILLER257@aol.com) from jfoster@gte.net Sun Jan 4 00:14:39 1998 Subject: Linking mac-creator="4D4F5353" Would whomever has the web address for the artisan who builds theleather rodcases please send it to me.. I'd like to build a link to hissite.. JWF from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 00:42:09 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 98-01-03 23:47:17 EST, you write: I'm repairing the tip now due to breaking it while netting a biggish fish. I think it was a combination of too strong a tippet due to bottom bouncing nymphs in a strong currentand the rod being a little short to allow enough spring when the fish flicks about up close during netting. I could be wrong about that but it all happens so fast it's hard to tell. Truth is, I've beefed up the tip section myself. The taper as it is inWayne's book tops out a 243,000 at the 9 inch point. I have increasedthe diameter of the 5, 10, and 15 inch points to .074, .086. and .104which gives the rod a max of 212,000 at the 9 inch point. I didn't mention this before because I thought I was being overly cautious in doing this, and nobody else ever said anything about the tipbreaking. I usually try to stay near the 200,000 point as a maximum stress value. Darryl Hayashida from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 4 01:27:41 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA15735 for; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:31:20 -0600 Subject: Test - ignore please Test RTC from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Jan 4 04:22:17 1998 (CET) ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:16:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Sir D wrote Truth is, I've beefed up the tip section myself. The taper as it is inWayne's book tops out a 243,000 at the 9 inch point. I have increasedthe diameter of the 5, 10, and 15 inch points to .074, .086. and .104which gives the rod a max of 212,000 at the 9 inch point. I didn't mention this before because I thought I was being overly cautious in doing this, and nobody else ever said anything about the tipbreaking. I usually try to stay near the 200,000 point as a maximum stress value. Darryl Hayashida NOW You tell us. My birthday present for myself (Yes, today is the day) isunwrapping the blank for the 7'#4 which was glued up a couple of daysago.I am looking forward to fighting all those big fish, Tony is talking about.About beefing up the tip: Has it altered the action of the rod? Another birthday present for myself: Have started building "The Force",splits ready for planing, tempering done. So You see, we don't hang arounddoing nothing. ("We" are yours truly and my 10 years old daughter whothinkits fun helping daddy making those funny poles) I know, THE rod doesn't exist. But I know of this taper, You know. If Ibeefed up the tip, and if.................................. Best regards Carsten from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jan 4 04:58:52 1998 Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:58:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod wugate.wustl.edu id EAA13609 On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: Sir D wrote Truth is, I've beefed up the tip section myself. The taper as it is inWayne's book tops out a 243,000 at the 9 inch point. I have increasedthe diameter of the 5, 10, and 15 inch points to .074, .086. and .104which gives the rod a max of 212,000 at the 9 inch point. I didn't mention this before because I thought I was being overly cautious in doing this, and nobody else ever said anything about the tipbreaking. I usually try to stay near the 200,000 point as a maximum stress value. Darryl Hayashida NOW You tell us. My birthday present for myself (Yes, today is the day) isunwrapping the blank for the 7'#4 which was glued up a couple of daysago.I am looking forward to fighting all those big fish, Tony is talking about.About beefing up the tip: Has it altered the action of the rod? Another birthday present for myself: Have started building "The Force",splits ready for planing, tempering done. So You see, we don't hangarounddoing nothing. ("We" are yours truly and my 10 years old daughter whothinkits fun helping daddy making those funny poles) I know, THE rod doesn't exist. But I know of this taper, You know. If Ibeefed up the tip, and if.................................. Best regards Carsten I wouldn't worry overly about the tip breaking, I've mentioned before that I'm a bit of a gorilla waving a stick and although using a landing net for a fish you intend to return isn't good practice I had to in this case and the fish was still full of fight as I don't like playing them out till they are exhausted if it's going back. Still, Darryl have you made a rod as per the taper and if so how does it compare casting wise with your mod? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from SealRite@aol.com Sun Jan 4 06:49:58 1998 Subject: sizing ferrules Does anybody have an easy equation for matching ferrule size to blanksize.Is the sizing on the ferrules ID of the female part, or the OD of thebamboo? Thanks Craig from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sun Jan 4 07:35:03 1998 Subject: Re: Idaho beginner Roger Long wrote: I've been interested in making bamboo rods for quite some time, and I'mjustgetting started on building my first planing form. I'm wondering if thereareany other rodmakers in the eastern Idaho area on the list. Roger Long Roger there are a bunch of us. Contact me off lisy ay rmoon@ida.net Ralph from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sun Jan 4 07:56:48 1998 Subject: Linking Jerry-Jimmy Acord....http://www.turtlemoon.com from denny@interlynx.net Sun Jan 4 09:15:51 1998 wolf.interlynx.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA23329 for Subject: books and videos I am looking for the address and phone number to Angler's Art to obtainsome books and videos on building bamboo rods.Thanks DennyStoney Creek from tball@mail.portup.com Sun Jan 4 10:40:35 1998 Subject: Re: books and videos Denny, the address for Anglers Art is PO Box 148, Plainfield, PA 17081800-848-1020. Great folks to do business with. Tom from tball@mail.portup.com Sun Jan 4 10:57:36 1998 Subject: Lathe Books boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1908.09C0B960" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1908.09C0B960 There a lot of good reprints on Metal Lathe books and other old time = Lindsay Publications IncPO Box 538, Bradley IL 60915-0538 815- 935- 5353Ask them to send you their catalogue on Metal Working Books. Lots of =good info even tho itis old books. You can even get books telling you =how to build your own lathe. Tom ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1908.09C0B960 lot of good reprints on Metal Lathe books and other old time metal = from Lindsay= IncPO Box = 935-5353Askthem to = ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1908.09C0B960-- from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 4 12:16:59 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA04050 for; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:20:51 -0600 Subject: Hey Jerry, My mail isn't coming in from the List Proc Hey folks, I'd like for J.Foster to e-mail me regarding my status on thelist proc. I haven't received a message since 12-25-97. I sent a testin - no response. I guess you guys are getting this message. I triedto rejoin - no good. I tried to e-mail michael@... undeliverable. Ifthis makes the list could you email me direct and tell me what to trynext? Thanks, Rick from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 13:30:44 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 98-01-04 06:00:18 EST, you write: Still, Darryl have you made a rod as per the taper and if so how does it compare casting wise with your mod? The third rod I made was the taper right out of the book, myDad now owns it. With the modification, it seems to take abit more of a "flick" to get the leader to turn over when castingat short (less than 20 ft.) distances. But I also use leadersthat are 12 to 18 ft. long when using this rod for dry fly fishing. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 13:41:24 1998 Subject: Re: sizing ferrules In a message dated 98-01-04 07:54:14 EST, you write: Does anybody have an easy equation for matching ferrule size to blanksize.Is the sizing on the ferrules ID of the female part, or the OD of thebamboo? Measure the blank at the place you are going to put the ferrule.Multiply that measurement by 64, and that is your ferrule size. your ferrule goes - .206 x 64 = 13.18 I would buy a 13/64thsferrule. I usually go for the next largest ferrule when I reach the.5 mark. That is, if the measurement was over 13.50 I would buy a 14/64ths ferrule. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 13:44:41 1998 Subject: Re: Hey Jerry, My mail isn't coming in from the List Proc In a message dated 98-01-04 13:24:41 EST, you write: Hey folks, I'd like for J.Foster to e-mail me regarding my status on thelist proc. Mike Biondo is the list keeper.... from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 13:58:30 1998 Subject: Re: sizing ferrules I forgot to mention, measure the blank flat to flat. Darryl Hayashida from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Jan 4 14:43:22 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA01848 for; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:38:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod ----------Tony It seems like I'm never going to find out, how this particular rod work.Unwrapped and scraped it this afternoon, and the bl.... thing was too thickall over, some 0,013 inches. Since I don't go for sanding down blanks, I'lljust have to start all over again. Being a mere mortal these things happen,though, but I still feel stupid. The fault I made was in adding 0,01 inch to each split i order tocompensate for the final scraping away of the hard layer on the outside.(forgot the exact word). Checking the Archives I guess I should have addedjust 0,003 per split. Should have made some notes, since I obviously can'ttrust my memory. Tony, I'd like your, and anybody else's, comments on this: I usually do notscrape away the hard, outer layer (still can't remember the right word)until after glueing. I have heard of scraping away this layer before thefinal planing of the splits, in order to have better control with the finaldimensions of the splits. Best regards Carsten from Canerods@aol.com Sun Jan 4 14:43:47 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: Granger Jasper Silk In a message dated 98-01-03 18:09:07 EST, you write: )Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Last year, Bob Corsetti had some spools (900 yards or so) of 00 Granger orange jasper silk thread. I should have bought one then, but, well you know... If anyone has a spare spool (orange or b&w) and is willing to sell, please reply. Thanks, Randy Brewer >> Randy, Good luck! I'm still looking for the red/black jasper that I should've bought too. Belvoirdale's remaining stock of Elephant red/black isn't the same - don'tknow about their blk/orange. I do have a single spool of W&M Gragerblk/orangeand would swap for equal amount of the W&M red/blk. Won't sell it for L orM(love or money ) Don from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Jan 4 16:09:57 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Carsten - With regard to leaving the enamel on until last, .003 is not a badguess, but what you should do is measure. The thickness might vary a bitfromculm to culm, and even from tip to butt within a culm.Re: the oversize sections. Rather than throw them away, maybe you cancome upwith something useful, even though it won't exactly be what Waynedesigned.Look at the dimensions and see if you can extend the tip by 6-8 inchs bysplicing on a tip section. Try to arrange things so that the taper is asclose to the original as possible. I would try to put the splice at thesecondguide,where the tip will be about .110, and the splice can be hidden underthewraps and reinforced by them. Cut a length about equal to the tipextensionoff the butt. This will, of course, offset the the ferrule position, and thetip will be longer than the butt. You will also need the next larger sizeferrule, no doubt.If anyone asks you why you made such a funny looking rod, tell them youheardCharles Ritz experimented with offset ferrules, and you wanted to try ittoo.Or, put a removable fighting butt on the rod so it looks right in the rod bag.Under no circumstances should you ever admit to making a mistake toanyoneother than another rodmaker, as your reputation will be ruined. Remember,allyour rods are instruments fit for the gods, just like all of mine :-). from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jan 4 17:51:53 1998 Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:51:44 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod wugate.wustl.edu id RAA28080 On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: Tony It seems like I'm never going to find out, how this particular rod work.Unwrapped and scraped it this afternoon, and the bl.... thing was too thickall over, some 0,013 inches. Since I don't go for sanding down blanks, I'lljust have to start all over again. Being a mere mortal these thingshappen,though, but I still feel stupid. The fault I made was in adding 0,01 inch to each split i order tocompensate for the final scraping away of the hard layer on the outside.(forgot the exact word). Checking the Archives I guess I should haveaddedjust 0,003 per split. Should have made some notes, since I obviouslycan'ttrust my memory. Tony, I'd like your, and anybody else's, comments on this: I usually do notscrape away the hard, outer layer (still can't remember the right word)until after glueing. I have heard of scraping away this layer before the>final planing of the splits, in order to have better control with the finaldimensions of the splits. Best regards Carsten Carsten,just keep going like you intended it to be that way. You'll prob wind up with a perfectly good rod, just not the one you intended. I'm possitive there are perfectly good rods around a lot worse that that.You may now have a 7' #8? May not be a bad thing if it casts. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Jan 4 18:14:18 1998 TAA21778 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:14:14 - Subject: More Resolution Ed Miller asks about one-piecers, nodeless or spliced? My first one piecershad splices under the cork. Now I am fearlessly into nodeless and the rodlengths are limited only by the space in my van. But practically speakingseven feet, three inches is where I draw the line. Consider these fouradvantages to no- ferrule rods: 1.The ferrule moment is no longer in the taper calculation. This results in athinner and lighter rod with equal or better performance. 2. There isno need to compromise tapers at the rod's midpoint to accommodate aferruledimensioned in discrete sixty- fourths. The rod designer has completefreedom. 3. No ferrules to be made or bought, fitted, loosen and wear out.4. No metallic dead space in the middle of the rod.End of soapbox. Bill 1/3/98 from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Jan 4 18:28:21 1998 (CET) ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:22:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Tom Good of You to respond to my cry for help. I've considered splicing, butrejected the idea. When it comes to rodmaking, I'm a bit pedantic. Whatbothers me is that I wanted to make Waynes 7ft. #4 - and flopped. Thatrod,exclusive of splices, is going to be the next in my armoury, come hell orhigh water. I allways set out to make the next rod the best, I've evermade. See what happened...... The only way to avoid mistakes is to avoid doing anything at all, but I'velearned my lesson : Like You wrote, measuring the thickness of the enamelof each and every split before starting final planing. There are major gods and minor gods. Being a (very) minor guru, my rodsarement for minor gods. She who must be obeyed simply remarked that even God had to have somepractise, before he created woman. How is that for compassion. Best regards Carsten from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Jan 4 18:43:09 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA23562 for; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:37:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Tony Ive got my rep in the family to consider. I'm supposed to be the master ofthe household so I am supposed to excel in male hobbies like rodbuilding,dishwashing and general tidying up. :-) No one ever heard of a 7ft. #8, so I guess that blank will fade away in acorner. Should anyone ever ask, I'll just call it a planing exercise. Still would value your opinion of pros and cons re. removing enamel beforeor after gluing. Best regards Carsten from denny@interlynx.net Sun Jan 4 19:35:41 1998 UAA20309 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:35:05 - Subject: Bamboo Rod Building Info I am a new comer to bamboo rod building and am looking for books andvideos on the subject. I have the Garrison and Carmicheal book and the Kreider book. I am now looking to get my hands the "Best of the Planing Form" and"Handcrafting the Bamboo Fly Rod".Any suggestions on where to lay my hands on these would be very helpful. I am also trying to find videos on the same topic, again any suggestions?Yours truly,Eager to Learn and Get Started....Denny from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 4 19:39:08 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps In regards to the cracking of the finish at the ferrule I have seen and castmany rods thru the 31 years I have been addicted to this hobby and I haveseenthis on about ever1s rods from Paynes to Youngs to Leonards. I wouldassumethat it has something to do with the flexing(or non-flexing at the ferrulestation.)Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 4 19:47:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: dumb question???? Does anyone have a phone # for Ron Barch as he owes me a rod tube and Iwassupposed to call him to make arrangements to meet with him to pick it up.Bret from ghinde@inconnect.com Sun Jan 4 19:54:11 1998 (may be forged)) 0000 Subject: Re: Wanted: Granger Jasper Silk Does it have to be silk? I have a few spools of Gudebrod size A orange &black. It matches the Granger Jasper in color, but it is nylon -not silk.I have used it for repair s on Wright McGills.If you are interested reach me at ghinde@inconnect.com George----------From: Canerods Subject: Re: Wanted: Granger Jasper SilkDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 1:25 PM In a message dated 98-01-03 18:09:07 EST, you write: Date: 98-01-03 18:09:07 ESTFrom: brewer@teleport.com (Randy Brewer )Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Last year, Bob Corsetti had some spools (900 yards or so) of 00 Granger orange jasper silk thread. I should have bought one then, but, well you know... If anyone has a spare spool (orange or b&w) and is willing to sell, please reply. Thanks, Randy Brewer >> Randy, Good luck! I'm still looking for the red/black jasper that I should've bought too. Belvoirdale's remaining stock of Elephant red/black isn't the same -don'tknow about their blk/orange. I do have a single spool of W&M Gragerblk/orangeand would swap for equal amount of the W&M red/blk. Won't sell it for Lor M(love or money ) Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 4 19:58:09 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Wanted: Granger Jasper Silk I have a friend in Pheonix that I will be writing to this weekwho deals inoldfishing tackle and he always has differnt threads for sale I will ask himtosend me a list of what he has to date.BretP.S. It will be very expensive so be forwarned as he never gives anythingaway. from jfoster@gte.net Sun Jan 4 20:02:28 1998 Subject: contact info? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Does anyone know what happened to Bob Summers WEB page? JWF from ghinde@inconnect.com Sun Jan 4 20:10:30 1998 be forged)) 0000 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps If you look in Garrison's book(the chapter on wrapping the guides) you willfind he wraped the the ferrule with 2 segments so that when the varnishcracked the silk did not break as well. Its been a while since I read thechapter, but I think he said something to the effect that the varnish crackat the ferrule is to be expected. Has something to do with bamboo flexingmore than metal even when the metal is feathered out at the edge. ----------From: Grhghlndr Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wrapsDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 6:38 PM In regards to the cracking of the finish at the ferrule I have seen andcastmany rods thru the 31 years I have been addicted to this hobby and I haveseenthis on about ever1s rods from Paynes to Youngs to Leonards. I wouldassumethat it has something to do with the flexing(or non-flexing at theferrulestation.)Bret from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Sun Jan 4 20:16:00 1998 Subject: Re: contact info? his old one was up with "The Classic Angler", but now all the rodmakerspages they had are gone......he has his own page at:http://www.gtii.com/summersrods/ which, last i checked, is up andrunningfine...... At 08:01 PM 1/4/98 +0000, you wrote:Does anyone know what happened to Bob Summers WEB page? JWF Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 4 20:47:28 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA23443 for; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:51:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Mail working again. Thanks - No message. Rick Mail is on again. Unsubscribed then re-subscribed. Works great. Thanksto all. Rick. from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Sun Jan 4 20:49:39 1998 Subject: Reel plans & comments on lathe book Terry, Would you please send me also, a copy of the "Machining Your Fishing Reel"article. Paul Whitely13102 Dean StreetTustin, CA 92780 I will be more than happy to pay all costs. Thanks From: Terry Paulsen Subject: Reel plans & comments on lathe bookDate: Monday, December 22, 1997 3:48 PM If you are looking for plans for a basic fly reel there is an article inthe January 1951 issue of Mechanix Illustrated titled "Machine YourFishingReel" starting on page 141. If you library does not have the boundvolumes I have a copy and will copy it. It would probably not post to the web verywellthough.The Book How to Run a Lathe by the South bend Lathe Co. is an excellentstarter book. It is the first book I got after I acquired my lathe, and it isthefirst reference I go to when I have a question. Have a merry Christmas all. sincerely Terry Paulsen from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Sun Jan 4 21:14:37 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 107 Subject: Rain Beau Fly Line I am looking for a spool of "Rain Beau" brand fly line it the originalpackage..esp the plastic spool it was wound on. If you can help me,email me off the list. Thanks, everyone, for taking up list space withthis somewhat nonbamboo request. Jim Kubichek from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jan 4 21:27:41 1998 Subject: Re: dumb question???? Ron's # is 616-945-2329 from mrj@seanet.com Sun Jan 4 21:46:44 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06928 for Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod You added .010 of an inch to each spline? Is that correct? I guess you knownow that that is way way too much. I plane down to about .010 oversizeandthan just flatten the rind side with my plane.Then finish planing down tosize. My measurements flat to flat are still sometimes a bit large thoughnot too much. This is probably the glue adding in some thickness.----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod ----------Tony It seems like I'm never going to find out, how this particular rod work.Unwrapped and scraped it this afternoon, and the bl.... thing was too thickall over, some 0,013 inches. Since I don't go for sanding down blanks, I'lljust have to start all over again. Being a mere mortal these thingshappen,though, but I still feel stupid. The fault I made was in adding 0,01 inch to each split i order tocompensate for the final scraping away of the hard layer on the outside.(forgot the exact word). Checking the Archives I guess I should haveaddedjust 0,003 per split. Should have made some notes, since I obviously can'ttrust my memory. Tony, I'd like your, and anybody else's, comments on this: I usually do notscrape away the hard, outer layer (still can't remember the right word)until after glueing. I have heard of scraping away this layer before thefinal planing of the splits, in order to have better control with the finaldimensions of the splits. Best regards Carsten from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jan 4 22:43:31 1998 Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:43:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod wugate.wustl.edu id WAA13186 On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: Tony Ive got my rep in the family to consider. I'm supposed to be the masterofthe household so I am supposed to excel in male hobbies likerodbuilding,dishwashing and general tidying up. :-) No one ever heard of a 7ft. #8, so I guess that blank will fade away in acorner. Should anyone ever ask, I'll just call it a planing exercise. Still would value your opinion of pros and cons re. removing enamelbeforeor after gluing. Best regards Carsten Carsten,it may well be that the rod could cast ok, and I was only guessing it to #8.Since you aren't too concerned about the rod now, you may as well fit the ferrules and tape guides on and try casting it and see what it's like. You may have made a pretty decent rod and not know it.Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jan 5 00:19:06 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info Denny, Grindstone has a copy of the "Best of the Planing Form" I've got afairly complete collection of most of the important rod making books ifyouwant to borrow one. Wayne Cattenach's book is probably the best moderntext on the subject. I also have Digger"s and Garrisons videos. ----------From: denny@interlynx.net Subject: Bamboo Rod Building InfoDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 8:35 PM I am a new comer to bamboo rod building and am looking for books andvideos on the subject. I have the Garrison and Carmicheal book and the Kreiderbook. I am now looking to get my hands the "Best of the Planing Form" and"Handcrafting the Bamboo Fly Rod".Any suggestions on where to lay my hands on these would be veryhelpful. I am also trying to find videos on the same topic, again any suggestions?Yours truly,Eager to Learn and Get Started....Denny from DEMARALON@aol.com Mon Jan 5 06:40:26 1998 Subject: Re: books and videos Anglers Art, P. O. Box 148N, Plainfield, PA 17081 - 800 848-1020.Harold Demarest, Charles H. Demarest, Inc. from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Mon Jan 5 07:40:08 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: Caneotine tests (fungal infected vs. non-fungal infected) were conducted "blind,"i.e. did the tester know in advance which type of cane he/she was testing?Jerry Snidere-mail: jerry.snider@uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jan 5 08:05:21 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info denny@interlynx.net wrote: I am a new comer to bamboo rod building and am looking for books andvideos onthe subject. I have the Garrison and Carmicheal book and the Kreiderbook. Iam now looking to get my hands the "Best of the Planing Form" and"Handcraftingthe Bamboo Fly Rod".Any suggestions on where to lay my hands on these would be veryhelpful. I amalso trying to find videos on the same topic, again any suggestions?Yours truly,Eager to Learn and Get Started....Denny Denny,Cabela's carries Wayne Cattanach's book and video. IMHO, those twoarethe very best way to get started. And Cabela's usually delivers inquite a hurry.Harry Boyd from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 5 09:05:09 1998 Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:04:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Phillipson Smuggler Somebody droped in on me today a Phillipson Smuggler needing some cork work as well as a new tip.Does anybody out there have the taper of the tip?I believe there weren't too many of these rods made, but I'll give the few details on the rod. 4 piece, 7' - 8", green annodised Al down screw reel seat. It's in very good condition. Anybody have a comment on how these rods rate? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Jan 5 09:41:52 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info Cabelas new rod building catalog has the Best of Planing Form. Justordered mine. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ps. Steve, I will get you MSC number. They are also on the rodmakerspage. (May be MRC, I can't remember.) ----------From: ted john knott Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building InfoDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 10:03 PM Denny, Grindstone has a copy of the "Best of the Planing Form" I've gotafairly complete collection of most of the important rod making books ifyouwant to borrow one. Wayne Cattenach's book is probably the best moderntext on the subject. I also have Digger"s and Garrisons videos. ----------From: denny@interlynx.net Subject: Bamboo Rod Building InfoDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 8:35 PM I am a new comer to bamboo rod building and am looking for books andvideos on the subject. I have the Garrison and Carmicheal book and the Kreiderbook. I am now looking to get my hands the "Best of the Planing Form" and"Handcrafting the Bamboo Fly Rod".Any suggestions on where to lay my hands on these would be veryhelpful. I am also trying to find videos on the same topic, again any suggestions?Yours truly,Eager to Learn and Get Started....Denny from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Jan 5 09:44:44 1998 Subject: Re: Dropped from listserve? Most likely you were kicked off, this happens from time to time, youshouldresubscibe in the same way, the listserver wil send you confirmation. JB At 06:15 AM 12/18/97 EST, you wrote:Jerry, I havn't recieved any mailfor two days. Did i get cut off the listor is it meybe a problem with AOL?Thanks Ken Gaucher from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Jan 5 10:10:48 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 200 Brad, I have this rod (original Payne) let ne know if you still need info. JBAt 07:20 PM 1/3/98 EST, you wrote:I was interested in building Payne's 200 4 wt 3 pc. rod. However, there isnolisting with the taper as to the size of the ferrules. Does anyone knowwhatthe ferrule sizes would be? Moreover, what is the line weight for thePaulYoung Para 15 and ferrule size for that rod? Thanks,Brad from jfoster@gte.net Mon Jan 5 14:07:55 1998 S