from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jan 1 08:53:41 1998 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA20419 for Subject: =?iso-8859- 1?Q?Re:_=5FRe:=5F=5F8=5F=C7=5F#6=5Fdryfly=5Frod?= At 06:35 PM 12/31/97 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 12/31/97 9:18:06 PM, you wrote: whereas Waynes 8'peeks at 225.000.>> Carsten - I ran Wayne's taper and was not able to duplicate the results ontheweb page. I got an identically shaped curve, but it peaked at about185,000. Iused 6 weight line with 50 foot cast. The curve on the web page musthavebeenrun with longer or heavier line. See what you come up with.Darryl - An interesting thought regarding the area under the curve. I thinkyou have a point, but it is a question of degree. If you keep thinning thebutt, the stresses will keep going up, and the area under the curve willincrease, but at some point the butt becomes too weak to support the tip.Atthat point the rod begins to lose "power". As usual it's a question ofbalanceand compromise. Casting style plays a role here, also. All, If my physics course of 30 years ago serves me right, power has units ofWork/time. Work done by the rod is the force times distance moved (by therod tip). Therefore, the power of a rod is the force it exerts on the linetimes the distance the tip moves divided by the time required. Soooo, I amnot certain what we mean when we say a rod is "powerful." I think we aresaying that the rod does work at a slower rate which would say that it isnot powerful but that it is slow. Of course this says nothing about loopformation, wind resistance the casting motion of the angler or a millionother things. my $0.02. Darryl, how does this relate to the area under the stress curve? To all a Happy and Prosperous New Year, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jan 1 09:02:29 1998 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA20555 for Subject: Get-to-gether in Fergus? Although I gave my e-mail address to a person to forward to anotherpersonao that that person might send me information on a May gathering inFergusOntario, sadly I have not heard a thing. I would greatly appreciate a post from anyone who has info on this function. Thanks and Happy 1998, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jan 1 10:10:53 1998 Subject: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 1/1/98 3:00:09 PM, you wrote: Doug - I agree with your definition, But powerful and slow are notmutuallyexclusive. A rod that bends deeply into the butt will carry more lineweightin the air, and the tip will travel a longer distance. As long as reasonablespeed is maintained more power is being expended is it not? I'm not sayingthat all fast rods are not powerful, or that all slow rods are. What I amsaying is that power and speed are not the same thing. The ultimate testissimply how much line the rod will throw. The Para 15 we were discussingis agood example of a rod that is somewhat slow when fully loaded, but willcast avery long line. from parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Thu Jan 1 10:27:43 1998 (parkerdh@localhost) with SMTP id JAA54356 Thu, 1 Jan 1998 09:27:37 -0700 Subject: Re: Reel plans & comments on lathe book Terry, I also wouldn't mind a copy of the article. David Parker10503-36A AvenueEdmonton, AlbertaCanada T6J 2H7I would be happy to reimburse your expenses, perhaps you might like awooden pen in return? Thanks in advance. On Mon, 22 Dec 1997, Terry Paulsen wrote: If you are looking for plans for a basic fly reel there is an article in the January 1951 issue of Mechanix Illustrated titled "Machine Your FishingReel"starting on page 141. If you library does not have the bound volumes Ihave a copy and will copy it. It would probably not post to the web very wellthough. The Book How to Run a Lathe by the South bend Lathe Co. is an excellentstarterbook. It is the first book I got after I acquired my lathe, and it is thefirst reference I go to when I have a question. Have a merry Christmas all. sincerely Terry Paulsen from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 1 10:43:24 1998 LAA10791 for ; Thu, 1 Jan 1998 11:43:23 -0500 Subject: Stress Curves Tom You bring up a good point on some of these stress curves. If youdon't know the parameters inputted it is hard to comparecurves. Additionallysome rods are designed with a specific distance or "sweet spot" in mind.So - people should be very carefull when comparing. I run a lot of my mountain tapers with 15-20' of line max. I use 30-35' for "normal" troutrodsand 60'+ for "big dog" rods. So when a stress curve is posted I reccomendthat it says for what line at what distance. Regards Chris from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Jan 1 10:57:46 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe work Try MSC Industrial Supply Co.151 Sunnyside Blvd.Plainview, NY 11803 I don't have there phone no. here at my computor, it's out in myshop.Callinfo for there no. If you can't get it, let me know and I will get it for you.Call fora catalog. They may have what you are looking for. Dave L. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jan 1 11:06:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Reel plans & comments on lathe book Terry,If it wouldn't be to much trouble could I also get a copy of the article onreels. I will reimburse for expences if you like. Please send toGreenhighlander at P.O. Box 2974,So. Bend,IN. 46680. thank you in advance.bret from parkerdh@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Thu Jan 1 11:53:10 1998 (parkerdh@localhost) with SMTP id KAA20852 Thu, 1 Jan 1998 10:53:04 -0700 Subject: Re:RE: Lathe books - was lathe work wugate.wustl.edu id LAA00223 I would appreciate receiving a copy too Carsten!David Parker10503-36A AvenueEdmonton, AlbertaCanada T6J 2H7 On Tue, 30 Dec 1997, [ISO-8859-1] Carsten Jorgensen wrote: ----------Don wrote Tell me what you think of the book - I'm thinking of buying a copy too.Thanks for the tool post idea, I guess I'll need all kinds of extrassoon after buying a lathe. Don B. -Don If we're talking Myford Series 7, You better talk to Your bankmangerbeforebuying extras. This is pro stuff and VERY expensive. It allso happens tobethe best. If still talking Series 7, I can snail-mail You a xerox copy oftheir accessory brochure. Just tell me your home address, and it will besent in a week (when my holiday is over) best regards Carsten from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Jan 1 12:03:11 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods In a message dated 97-12-31 10:34:50 EST, you write: Thanks Ralph, and yes, would like the specs. Kind of sorry I did notrestorethe Heddon to its original configuration, but at the time was in the"anythinglonger than 8 feet is too heavy in bamboo" phase. To Don Burns: will check it out and let you know, but think that one had atrashed reel seat. Thanks to both of you for your responses. Regards,Richard from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 1 13:07:07 1998 Subject: Re:8_#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 98-01-01 09:59:26 EST, you write: Darryl, how does this relate to the area under the stress curve? I don't know for sure, it was just conjecture on my part. It'sbeen a long time since I took derivitives of an equation. Perhapsone of the mechanical engineers on the list can tell us. Darryl Hayashida from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jan 1 13:49:57 1998 Subject: Resolutions To the List 12/31/97Happy New Year to all. How about a resolution to stamp out all ferruleproblems. Make one-piecers. They fish great! Bill from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 1 14:23:49 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods Dear Gang Maybe this is a little late, but perhaps for next holidays or birthdays... I used a couple of old butt sections to make ink pens for a few fly fishingfriends. Woodcraft and a few other outfits sell the hardware kits and allyouhave to do is cut the bamboo to length, chuck it up in a 3-jaw and drill theprescribed diameter hole. Put it all together and you've got a very unique gift. Autograph it for themand they might even think of you next time they consider buying a rod! Imade one for a German buddy that even had the old original intermediatesandvarnish. I just hate to see anything go to waste. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 1 14:27:01 1998 Subject: Re: Re[6]: Xmas Gifts Survey In a message dated 97-12-31 16:39:47 EST, you write: Comes from Inchon, I think. Peaty? Perhaps more like "paddy", but firstyou've got to get past the formaldehyde. Good flavorful belches, though,andthat's a fact. Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Jan 1 15:10:51 1998 Subject: Re: Re: The Caneotine Gentlemen,gentlemen,gentlemen(and ladies if any in this irreverentbunch),This cane testing is serious business. It is obvious that the altered 750ml bottles would seriously change the results of any test. This is probablywhy Wayne's results were so surprising. Also if the strips were not fromthesame culm and side by side the results might be even more surprising,therefore I suggest we stick to single malts and let the cane deflectwhere itwill.Hank. from harry37@epix.net Thu Jan 1 16:49:48 1998 RAA01573 Subject: Finishing reel seat inserts I've recently come across some zebra and some ebony and I want to turnsome reel seats. Any suggestions for a method to finish them? I've seen somedescriptions of oil finishes and others for varnish or poly finishes. All seem to have their own respective strengths as well as weaknesses. I'm looking for water- repellency and gloss-- Any thoughts are appreciated. Thanks and Happy New Year! Greg from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Jan 1 17:09:41 1998 Subject: Tuning rods I was talking with a friend last week, and blissfully casting variousmakers' rods, when he abruptly brought up the subject of "Rod Tuning".He deals in classic cane, has handled thousands of fine rods, and knows,or has known, many of the top makers. His statement was something to theeffect that most of the new makers didn't tune their rods, and tuningwas an important part of the finishing steps that determined whether arod would be adequate or superb. few thous) from carefully selected portions of the glued, cleaned stick,in order to accentuate the action desired. I have read of this process,and the writer (a friend of Payne's) seemed to take it as a necessarystep in quality manufacture. This leads me to ask, "How many of thelistmembers "tune" their rods in this manner?".Best regards,Reed from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Jan 1 18:04:52 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA23614 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:00:45 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod -Sir D wrote--------- Are you ready for this?..... The stress reading of one point on a rod is dependant on whatis between that point and the tip. That is, take two differently designed rods, and take a point, say, 15 inches from the tip, and the diameters are the same at that point, but one has a stiffer (thicker) tip. A thicker tip means more weight that the 15 inch point is supporting and therefore will have a higherstress reading at that point than the other rod at that point. Sir D Dont know if I am ready, but I try. Your message dated 22 of october 1997re. stress curves will not be forgotten. from the debate I have learned,that at least I have a problem defining the terms "powerfull" "fast" and"force". I think we have some sort of clarification now. As to the abovequotation: Message understood. What kind of chocks me is Chris Bogarts remark dated jan 1st: " So when astress curve is posted I reccomend that it says for what line at whatdistance." And there I was, thinking stresscurves was based on the first30feet of a DT line of a given AFTM classification. What an dummy I musthavelooked like. My question of Wayne versus Payne is simply, well, irrelevant. The answer to my question is very simple: Use Hexrod until not only thecurves, but the numbers as well correspond. The only variable being thedesignated length of casting. When the curves/ounces pr. sq.inch corespondwe have a winner: The rod able to throw the longest line is the morepowerfull rod, but not necessarily the fastest. This all sounds very appealing, but I fear it is not true. Why: Because inorder to have a magnificent #4 rod, able to throw a whole flyline, just usea #6 rod. I think I am getting to understand stress curves, and how to interpretethem, but one question remains How does one classify a rod in AFTM terms? Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from gcjones@primary.net Thu Jan 1 18:17:39 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Greg Kuntz wrote: I've recently come across some zebra and some ebony and I want to turnsome reel seats. Any suggestions for a method to finish them? Greg Greg:Just finished a reel seat out of zebra and it looks good. I have beenusing Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil gunstock finish for my reel seats forseveral years and have had no problems with it . Available at mosthardware and sporting goods stores.Good luck. Gary Jones from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Jan 1 18:23:28 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA25103 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 01:22:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod Sir D and others In my rather longish message I forgot to tell I am realizing the existanceof a maximum amount of stress, before the rod breaks. If I have overextended my use of bandwith, do excuse me. Am simplydetermined to understand these things. Carsten from sats@gte.net Thu Jan 1 19:17:59 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods Does anyone have any experience with making so-called "Banty" rods outof themid and tip sections of a 3 piece rod? I am curious about line sizes oftheresulting Banty in relation to the original rod. Thanks. Rich,I've built two "Banty" rods so far. Don't expect the line wt. to beconsistentwith the original line wt. I can't really give you exact information, but the first one seems to like aDT5. The second one, I just finished. It seems to like a WF3. I cheated on thisone a little bit by "changing" the taper of the butt section, by .002 or so.This was done because the two sections came from two different rods.(God knowswhere the other sections went to.) The fact is, you can change the action to of a rod quite a bit by removing.002~ .003. Remember, the power fibers are located on the outside, so a littlegoesa long way both in the power and the speed of the rod. Terry K.Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:18:04 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod In a message dated 98-01-01 19:09:47 EST, you write: And there I was, thinking stresscurves was based on the first 30feet of a DT line of a given AFTM classification. What an dummy I musthavelooked like. My question of Wayne versus Payne is simply, well,irrelevant. Most stress curves that I have dealt with use 30 ft. as a base for the length line casted. The only reason to change it would bethat if you know the rod will be casting a different length almostall the time. Such as a small creek rod that will always cast inthe 20 foot range, and hardly ever cast over 30 feet. Or a rod ever cast less than that. The answer to my question is very simple: Use Hexrod until not only thecurves, but the numbers as well correspond. The only variable being thedesignated length of casting. When the curves/ounces pr. sq.inchcorespondwe have a winner: The rod able to throw the longest line is the morepowerfull rod, but not necessarily the fastest. This all sounds very appealing, but I fear it is not true. Why: Because inorder to have a magnificent #4 rod, able to throw a whole flyline, justusea #6 rod. You are right, this won't work. There is also the lower limit where therod stops flexing (Garrison believed this was at 140,000) and if youtry and use a 6 wt. rod to cast a 4 wt. line, most of the rod won'tbe flexing ( won't be "loading" the rod). I think I am getting to understand stress curves, and how to interpretethem, but one question remains How does one classify a rod in AFTM terms? Use the stress curves, keeping the length of the line equal to your average cast, and use the line weight that has most of the rodstresses between 200,000 and 140,000 (or any other stress valuesthat you are comfortable with). That will be the line weight to startwith, but there is no substitute for actually casting the rod witha lighter line and a heavier line, just to see what it feels like.Other variables enter into the equation, such as differing stiffnessor strength of the bamboo you used. Darryl Hayashida from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:19:04 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Dear Greg Personally, I like ebony, though it may be rather heavy. In fact, its densitycan be a real plus, as this allows it to take a very fine polish. The onlynegative aspect, in my experience, is that ebony has a strong tendency tocheck if green . My practice is to sand the ebony on the lathe, down to 600 or 1000 grit,thengo through the diminishing grits of a Micro-Mesh kit, from 1800 to about12000. After that, all you've got to do is apply a scant dab of wax- either bee's orpaste- and buff it out with a soft cloth. Fine paste wax will give the mostgloss, but bee's wax will produce a lovely glow in a wide range of gloss.You'll want to use a high speed. This can be done with most of the exotic hardwoods- at least the oneswith ahigh resin content, such as the true rosewoods. If the user exercises eventhe minimum care appropriate for a bamboo rod, he/she will never haveneed ofa eighth-inch of polyurethane. I strongly urge you to try this before you apply the sort of "bullet- proof"acrylic finish one often sees on the graphite rods. Davy from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:36:06 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I use Formby's high gloss polyurethane finish. You rub it on with a softcloth and rub the previous coat down with 4/0 steel wool. Let each coatdry24 hours. 5-6 coats required but it only takes 2 minutes per coat,includingthe rub down. Do not rub the top coat. --Rich from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:50:30 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I meant to add that I've used this method with nonoily native woods likemapleand walnut. Don't know how it would work with oily exotics, but I think itwould be OK. --Rich from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jan 1 19:52:56 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Well I just returned from an excursion to Grayrock - I have journeyedtoRodmaker Mecca - as predicted the weather was - 'Gray' - The event thatdrewme there was to photograph the wedding of Nancy Carlisle - our troutbumhostest from Spike's - and John Hunt - who works on enviromental issuesforCamp Grayrock - both nice folks. A fun event actually - it seems thatunderthe formal wedding dress that Nancy wore she also had on a pair of redboxershorts. I passed on the best wishes of the group.Today - 'on the way home' I couldn't resist stopping by to see myfavorite- which really isn't 'on the way home'. My all trusting wife hung on as weslide down Jordan River road - unplowed due to it's status as a 'seasonalroad' - truth be know even in the middle of the summer the 'road' isunseasonable - not far into the valley we were met by severalsnowmobilers whodid a double take of the vechicle. The river is as ever - only quietlyshrouded in snow - as if awaiting the return of the Rodmakers. I tookpicturesat several locations - especially the Section 13 Creek area - that's whereseveral list members were introduced to the river - or shall I say 'hadtheirbutts kicked' trying to fish it. I will post some of the pictures to my pagewhen they are developed. Also I searched through my old photos and havefoundother memories of the river - I even found the picture I took of theGentleman's Rambler - story to follow.I have read the posts of the past several days of absence and have acoupleof thoughts.The reason for testing samples of bamboo were to identify what if anyadverse affects that mold might have on bamboo - although the test jig(akaCaneotine) can be used to test difflection the idea here was to go to alloutbreakage. The results - not affected by any 750 ml bottle - were quitesuprising and before I say too much about them I want to try different andmore samples - initially it APPEARS - and I stress that word - that theeffectof mold can be devistating to the cell structure. Samples that showedgreying- when viewed from the side broke at about 30% less weight than samplesthatdidn't show greying. Deflection up to breakage appeared greater as well -butthere were no exact measurements taken. Not good news - BUT as I statedI willfeel more comfortable of the results after trying a few more samples -although 2 sample of each of 3 catagories were broken ( or rather tested).My and doing testing of their own - it still is.Planeaddict Elbow (spoken with flow) - Well it sounds a little medical-As any repetative motion can affect joints and muscles - the lessening oftheeffort can also reduce the effect. There are several measures that canmakeplaning real work - dull plane blades - trying to squeeze the bamboo intoshape - dull plane blades - workbench height - dull plane blades - tryingtotake too big a cut - and dull plane blades.. This may sound off the wall forsome but the only effort in planing should be parallel with the form -Thereshould be NO need for any down pressure whatsoever - the weight of theplaneis all that is needed. And the plane should be gripped ever so lightly. Toooften I have seen the beginner who is exerting so much down pressure andholding the plane so hard - the knuckles of their planing hand start to turnblue. If things are right this effort is unneeded. But it is learned or ratherpracticedWhen right - the planing creates a wisking sound - when this soundisn'theard it's time to sharpen the blade. If the plane makes a few passes andthenstops cutting - the burr was never removed and it has now flippedinsulatingthe edge from cutting. Happy 98Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jan 1 20:07:42 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod The Para 15 was dual tipped - both a wet and dry fly tip - either willcast a good bit of line. The 'Force' is a modified Para -15 - the tip wasredone. It too will cast some line. Understand - I have been told by some ofthe very best that I can't cast worth a $#!? - it's my up bringing on smallstreams that accounts for that - well I can put out about 105' of line withthe rod - and a friend who can cast did 135' with just three passes. It willalso cast leader only - not bad huh???? from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Jan 1 20:55:16 1998 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA12646 for Subject: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod At 11:10 AM 1/1/98 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 1/1/98 3:00:09 PM, you wrote: saying that the rod does work at a slower rate which would say that it is not powerful but that it is slow. >> Doug - I agree with your definition, But powerful and slow are notmutuallyexclusive. A rod that bends deeply into the butt will carry more lineweightin the air, and the tip will travel a longer distance. As long as reasonablespeed is maintained more power is being expended is it not? I'm notsayingthat all fast rods are not powerful, or that all slow rods are. What I amsaying is that power and speed are not the same thing. The ultimate testissimply how much line the rod will throw. The Para 15 we were discussingis agood example of a rod that is somewhat slow when fully loaded, but willcast avery long line. All, I think we are using the wrong terminology and are also missing a centralpoint. The point is, that fly rods do not have any power. The rod gets allits energy from the angler. Fly rods are energy transfer devices whichhavean elastic component which stores and releases the angler's energy. Howwell the energy is transferred (the efficiency of the rod) is whatdetermines how much line a given caster can put in the air. The object offly rod design is to make a rod that is mechanically efficient and alsointerfaces well with the angler's casting style. Obviously a rigid stickshould be a very efficient rod, however it wouldn't be easy to cast and youmight put a lot of line on the ground with it. I think that to be a usefulenergy transfer device a fly rod must be a favorable compromise betweenmechanical efficiency and ergonomics. Powerful rods in my definition arerod which have a good balance of these properties Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from lblan@provide.net Thu Jan 1 22:00:06 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts My favorite method is to coat them with a thin epoxy. The epoxy is sandedand polished to a soft glow. Looks good, fills the pores and is durable. Larry Blan Greg Kuntz wrote:I've recently come across some zebra and some ebony and I want to turnsome reel seats. Any suggestions for a method to finish them? Greg Greg:Just finished a reel seat out of zebra and it looks good. I have beenusing Birchwood Casey Tru-Oil gunstock finish for my reel seats forseveral years and have had no problems with it . Available at mosthardware and sporting goods stores.Good luck.Gary Jones from lblan@provide.net Thu Jan 1 22:00:08 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod The first time I cast "The Force", Sam was out on his dock with it. Hehanded it to me, and I threw a 25-30 foot backcast. I actually stopped,looked back and thought or uttered "wow".Larry Blan The Para 15 was dual tipped - both a wet and dry fly tip - either willcast a good bit of line. The 'Force' is a modified Para -15 - the tip wasredone. It too will cast some line. Understand - I have been told by someofthe very best that I can't cast worth a $#!? - it's my up bringing on smallstreams that accounts for that - well I can put out about 105' of linewiththe rod - and a friend who can cast did 135' with just three passes. Itwillalso cast leader only - not bad huh???? from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Jan 1 22:16:24 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods In a message dated 97-12-31 09:11:35 EST, you write: from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jan 2 00:21:04 1998 Fri, 2 Jan 1998 14:20:51 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod saying that the rod does work at a slower rate which would say that itis not powerful but that it is slow. >> Doug - I agree with your definition, But powerful and slow are notmutuallyexclusive. A rod that bends deeply into the butt will carry more lineweightin the air, and the tip will travel a longer distance. As long asreasonablespeed is maintained more power is being expended is it not? I'm notsayingthat all fast rods are not powerful, or that all slow rods are. What I amsaying is that power and speed are not the same thing. The ultimatetest issimply how much line the rod will throw. The Para 15 we werediscussing is agood example of a rod that is somewhat slow when fully loaded, butwillcast avery long line. All, I think we are using the wrong terminology and are also missing acentralpoint. The point is, that fly rods do not have any power. The rod gets allits energy from the angler. Fly rods are energy transfer devices whichhavean elastic component which stores and releases the angler's energy. Howwell the energy is transferred (the efficiency of the rod) is whatdetermines how much line a given caster can put in the air. The object offly rod design is to make a rod that is mechanically efficient and alsointerfaces well with the angler's casting style. Obviously a rigid stickshould be a very efficient rod, however it wouldn't be easy to cast andyoumight put a lot of line on the ground with it. I think that to be a usefulenergy transfer device a fly rod must be a favorable compromisebetweenmechanical efficiency and ergonomics. Powerful rods in my definitionarerod which have a good balance of these properties I understand that when you speak of "Power (upper case P)" it is a property of the casting of the line even thought the rod may not seem to have much power to feel in it's action, ie a slow rod or a flexible butt as per the para 15 either WC's or PHY's BUT these rods great as they are as casting rods don't have much "guts" when it comes to power (lower case p) needed to turn a big fish in a current or pick up line for mending in a strong current. Please don't take what I just said as a critisism I realy like para rods but they are not powerful (lower case p) rods for this purposecompared with WC's 7 '6" #5 for eg which has a stif butt and is IMHO a better rod extreme casting distance anyhow.To come back to the original point. If Carsten is saying he wants a more P/powerful rod than the Garrison but realy means more backbone, what is the correct term? Possibly Carsten did mean Power as it is used in the context of line throwing ability?I think this is a reasonably important point as the term can seem quite contradictory. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Jan 2 03:14:44 1998 (CET) ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:08:27 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod Sir D wrote "Use the stress curves, keeping the length of the line equal to your average cast, and use the line weight that has most of the rodstresses between 200,000 and 140,000 (or any other stress valuesthat you are comfortable with). That will be the line weight to startwith, but there is no substitute for actually casting the rod witha lighter line and a heavier line, just to see what it feels like.Other variables enter into the equation, such as differing stiffnessor strength of the bamboo you used." Point taken. Especially the remark on quality of bamboo. (My soft spot,together with hardening) Are we coming closer to a present timedefinitionof the AFTM system?: A stress curve between say 150.000 and 225.000measured with 30 feet of a given DT flyline? Somehow I have doubts about making a curve with 10 - 20 feet of line asthevariable. If this results in a curve within the above mentioned definition,what we have is a rod of a smaller #. Yes, the curve is correct, but thestartingpoint (distance of cast) is wrong, seen in the light of AFTMclassification and curves. Wayne wote "well I can put out about 105' of line with the rod - and a friend who cancast did 135' with just three passes. It will also cast leader only - notbad huh????" Wayne Bulls eye:A rod should be able to cast both long and short. As to castingabilities: Well, I am simply a lousy caster due to lousy style. Richard wrote "Seems there are just too many variables in all this to nail down tightly,else why all the variable input from so many brainy rodbuilders? And that is a serious question, not any kind of put down." Well Richard, this just proves the old proverb about one fool asking morequestions than ten wise men can answer. And I don't take Your remark as aput down. Tony wrote ITo come back to the original point. If Carsten is saying he wants a more P/powerful rod than the Garrison but realy means more backbone, whatis the correct term? Possibly Carsten did mean Power as it is used in the context of line throwing ability?I think this is a reasonably important point as the term can seem quite contradictory. Tony Tony Did fear somebody would put their finger on the soft spot. Well, You did.You see, I want to have my cake and eat it: I want both casting power andthe ability to fight a big fish in a strong current. I haven't buildneither the PHY Para nor Waynes 8 #6 - yet. I have to re-read all of thedebate, before I make up my mind: Para, Wayne, Dickerson or the Gillum,wehave been promised tapers for. Gotta do a lot of Hexrod exercises too, as Ifeel this necessary. When choosing a taper, I have to rely on 3 things: Stress curves, theexperience of fellow List members and my own experience.Information available right here and now deems the Para type rod a greattool for throwing a long and a short line, perhaps less great for thefighting/mending in strong current, all of this due to a thinnish butt. TheDickerson and Waynes 7,5 #5 are said to be fast with a definately stifferbutt. The Gillum hasto be seen to be judged. The outcome of the debate until now for my part is more knowledge and abetter understanding of the vocabulary used on the List. Still, as Youremark Yourself, complete agreement re. definition on terms has not beenreached, yet. I have no doubt it will be in time. Best regards Carsten from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jan 2 06:10:25 1998 Subject: contact info? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Does anyone have the email for the Japanese maker who sent the picturesof his interesting rods, he also sent me some very old tapers which hewanted to share with all of us.. lost.. jwf from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Fri Jan 2 06:27:57 1998 ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:34:02 GMT Subject: Reelmakers? There's been quite a lot of interest in the possibilities of home reelmaking. I'm really hot to have a go at this. Anyone know of further specific links to help those of us who fancy theprospect of a completely home-made outfit? Maybe there's a place for a reelmakers list. John Cooper (England) from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Fri Jan 2 06:28:45 1998 ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 12:34:53 GMT Subject: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. ----------Don Burns wrote Tell me what you think of the book - I'm thinking of buying a copy too.Thanks for the tool post idea, I guess I'll need all kinds of extrassoon after buying a lathe. Don B. -Carsten wrote If we're talking Myford Series 7, You better talk to Your bankmangerbeforebuying extras. This is pro stuff and VERY expensive. It allso happens to bethe best. If still talking Series 7, I can snail-mail You a xerox copy oftheir accessory brochure. Just tell me your home address, and it will besent in a week (when my holiday is over) "The Amateur's Lathe" by L. H. Sparry I'm pleased to report that this is an excellent book. It was written yearsago, when Britain still ruled the waves, so the idioms are rather dated.Nevertheless, it has been edited and reprinted several times, and theinformation contained therein is extensive. More importantly, because itiswritten by a highly skilled and enthusiastic amateur, it is pitched at thesort of level most of us will understand. That's not to say that it's for through to SERIOUS metal construction projects. Highly recommended. The Dixon tool post with four tool holders and a parting off tool is £150new retail here in Britain. I bought mine secondhand for £75 (that's about$120). Not cheap, but it transforms the operation of the lathe. Carsten'soffer to snail mail a copy of the Myford accessory brochure is one youshould accept. It shows the Dixon tool post and many other goodies to getyou dribbling involuntarily. Oh yes, the other tool I'd advise, is aSTRADDLE type knurling tool. This applies no destructive sheer pressure tothe lathe bearings, and it works much better than a simple side pressureknurler. (That's always assuming you want to knurl your metal parts onoccasions.) The British Myford, and for that matter the American Southbend, are highquality capital items that you can either afford, or not. If it's just amatter of utility then the Chinese lathe will probably do all that isrequired. There's more to it though. I just love QUALITY. My precisionMyford offers me the sort of pride of ownership to which the cheapo justdoesn't come close. I like expensive shoes, and expect them to last fortwenty-five years. I get enormous pleasure from living with two hundredyearold furniture that was VERY EXPENSIVE when it was new. Quality lasts notjust because it is innately stronger than the alternatives, but becausepeople CARE for it, and admire it for itself. Our cane rods are tools to doa job, but they have a value beyond that - agreed? Precision tools(certainly to me) have a similar value. If you can't afford handmade shoes,Chippendale furniture, Payne rods, and Myford lathes, then you buywhateveralternatives you can afford - and absolutely no disgrace in that. If youhave SPARE money that can add value to your life, then go for it. You can'ttake it with you. One final story. A multi-millionaire friend of mine has several engineeringcompanies, and buys computer controlled lathes by the dozen. He recentlysetup a home workshop to allow him to return to hands-on engineering. With alifetime of knowledge of the subject, and unlimited funds to throw at thepurchase, guess what lathe he bought - yup ........... a Myford. John Cooper (England) from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Jan 2 08:28:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re:__8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 1/2/98 2:59:29 AM, you wrote: Doug - Well said. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Jan 2 08:39:30 1998 Subject: Re: contact info? Jerry - I think you are talking about Minoru Nakayama - nakayama@katri.kajima.co.jp from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Jan 2 09:14:04 1998 Subject: Lathe work Tom- Libertyville,IL 60048 , phone 847-362-0014 ..or..try Barry Aronson, P.O.Box 115, Massapequa Park, NY 11762 , phone 516-798-6330. I don't knowifeither have a headstock Jacobs chuck but both advertise lathe parts forAtlas'.Dennis from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Jan 2 09:26:00 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Refinishing I have had many inquiries about refinishing old rods and I'm not toosure that I want to begin restorations. Does anyone out there want meto give out their name when I'm asked about an older rod or does anyoneknow people that do refinishing? Thanks. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jan 2 09:27:52 1998 10:27:28 -0600Received: from ccMail by svm.vetmed.wisc.edu (ccMail Linkto SMTP R8.10.00) Subject: Re: The Caneotine Wayne,The Caneotine (I presume this is Cane-o-tine; what is the derivation? I am missing the joke) sounds interesting but your description is a bit obscure. Can you do an ASCII diagram of it? Cheers.Jon McAnulty from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 2 10:11:54 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Carsten -As you have seen from the different responses the terms are defined alittle differently by each - I would suspect that this is partly becauseeachof us fish differently for different species on varied waters. As I said in aearlier post I am a lousy distance caster that is because I fish on petitetrout streams - distance is of little importance - where as Tom andothers onthis list do fish bigger waters where distance does play a role. Because ofthis I make trout rods - those rods that are intended to be fished on waterIhave fished all my life. One of the hats a rodmakers wears is that of wisecounsel to those that they make rods for. I have always felt that arodmakersneeded to be two things - first a guru at making rod and secondly a guru atwhatever fishing style that they market their rods to. from this idea let's backup a bit and start fresh - you want to make arod - so first let's examine how the rod is to be fished - and by who -through this examination you will be able to narrow down the characterthatneeds to be built into the rod.An example - I'm a slouthful flyfisher - I try to use as little energywhen casting as possible - I roll cast better than 50% of the time andmostcasts are 30' or less - plus I fish on brush choked streams. The rod I havecome to use over the years is a 6' 3" parabolic action - the action works atalower line speed than say a 'fast dry fly' action - it fits the personality ofthe caster well. Yet it gives great control for those 'trick' casts needwhenfishing brushy areas. A 'faster' rod would make thing happen too fast and Iwould lose some of the control I have.Once you have decided the 'character' of the needed rod then the otherblanks can be filled in - the distance that the rod action maximizes - theline weight - and any special features you want in the rod (a hinge in thebutt) - Then with this information a rod taper can be gleaned using acomputerprogram or other graphing methods. Then you make the rod.The discussion has been great in illustrating the character of thedifferent actions and hopefully it has opened you to a better understandingofwhat the options are - but it still falls to the individual to make theapplication - the question is ' what is it that you want the rod to do ?' -you do have the control here.And about the length of the casting window - most bamboo fly rod willhavea longer casting window than what plastic rods do - that is they(bamboo)cancast leader only and extend to a confortable distance with grace - thecharacteristic of the stiffer plastic rods is that they will not cast asshortand have a narrower 'sweet spot' of casting. from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Jan 2 10:14:16 1998 (CET) ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:13:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Refinishing ----------Brian wrote I have had many inquiries about refinishing old rods and I'm not toosure that I want to begin restorations. Does anyone out there want meto give out their name when I'm asked about an older rod or does anyoneknow people that do refinishing? Thanks. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com Brian Would love to help you, but you yanks simply live too far away (GRIN) Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Jan 2 10:23:25 1998 (CET) ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:13:29 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. ----------From: J.Cooper Subject: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values.Date: 2. januar 1998 13:28 ----------John Cooper wrote "The Amateur's Lathe" by L. H. Sparry I'm pleased to report that this is an excellent book. It was writtenyearsago, when Britain still ruled the waves, so the idioms are rather dated.Nevertheless, it has been edited and reprinted several times, and theinformation contained therein is extensive. the book was first published in 1948 and is now, I think, in its eigth orninth edition.It contains a chapter of useful additional tools, which canbe made by the reader. Quote: "Value... its unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay too little.When You pay too much you loose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes loose everything, because thethingyou bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting alot. It can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it's well to addsomething for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better." John Ruskin (1819 - 1900) John I do agree with you but have to remark: The quality of the best, be itPaynes, Myfords or whatever, does not show it's full potential, until thethings are USED. Paynes hanging on the wall - no sir. They were built tofish. Myfords are built for turning. In these times too many people withtoo much money buy to much just for the vanity of possesion - not forusing. (Not hinted at your friend with the Myford. I have met a couple ofguys of that type - they want hands on). Unfortunately most people have to make a choice. If I have to choosebetween stuff for my hobbies and paying the mortgage, I feel, I seriouslydo not have a choice. So, lots of times I have to be satisfied with thesecond best. Not that I like it, but thats the way it is for me, and Isuspect, for a lot of people.Still would love to have a brace of Hardys anda couple of Holland & Holland shotguns - and the time and money to use itall to its full potential. John - this is in no way ment as flaming. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jan 2 10:25:16 1998 LAA24700 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 11:25:14 -0500 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Reed The question I pose back - how were the rods manafactured?If they were from a milling machine then I can see some skillful tuning.If someone has a quality form and has "tuned" his tapers for performancethen the step you described may not be necessary. Chris On Thu, 01 Jan 1998 18:08:59 -0500, Reed F. Curry wrote: I was talking with a friend last week, and blissfully casting variousmakers' rods, when he abruptly brought up the subject of "Rod Tuning".He deals in classic cane, has handled thousands of fine rods, and knows,or has known, many of the top makers. His statement was something totheeffect that most of the new makers didn't tune their rods, and tuningwas an important part of the finishing steps that determined whether arod would be adequate or superb. few thous) from carefully selected portions of the glued, cleaned stick,in order to accentuate the action desired. I have read of this process,and the writer (a friend of Payne's) seemed to take it as a necessarystep in quality manufacture. This leads me to ask, "How many of thelistmembers "tune" their rods in this manner?".Best regards,Reed Regards Chris from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Jan 2 10:28:26 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I like a product called Behlen's Padding finish. It produces a very verythin coat that is mostly penetration. Then follow with a wax finish asdescribed in another excellent post. Ralph Moon from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Jan 2 10:30:16 1998 KAA01022 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 10:30:14 - (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id KAA09310 for ; Subject: Re: Tuning rods Maybe this is why so many rods of the old masters show a lot ofvariation when mike'd from flat to flat. They've been tuned bysomeone who already has decided on which side the guides will be mounted.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 1 Jan 1998, Reed F. Curry wrote: (much deleted...) few thous) from carefully selected portions of the glued, cleaned stick,in order to accentuate the action desired. from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 2 10:47:12 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Jon -Unfortunately what we are testing bamboo for is NO joke - thereAPPEARS tobe some bad bamboo out there and we are just trying to save some thegrief offinding out after the fact. I am working on a drawing of the test jig inCorelDraw 8 and will make it available when done. Wayne from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jan 2 10:52:04 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: reel plans and lathes Terry, I too would be interested in a copy of that article on making afly reel.Patrick Coffey22220 11th PL. SO.Des Moines, WA 98198 In regards to a metal lathe, those wanting one might check with machineshops. A lot of machine shops have switched to NC lathes and have oldSouth Bends around in storage collecting dust. I went to two machineshops here in Seattle and found a 3 foot South Bend tool room lathe with2 three jaw chucks, 1 four jaw chuck, all the change gears, full set ofcolletts and draw bar, and turret tool holder and turret for the tailstock. The guy said make him a offer and I said $200 figuring that beingabsurdly to low and was prepared to negotiate up. To my surprise heaccepted and help me load it in the back of my buddies pick up. To makea L O N G story short he said they had kept it in case they neededsomething like that and all it did was collect dust. You might take aday off and visit a few machine shops, you'd be surprised as what you'llfind. Patrick from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jan 2 11:08:16 1998 12:07:52 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: The Caneotine Wayne,I did not mean to imply that bamboo testing was a joke. Quite the opposite. I have been working on my own ideas for testing methods including static and dynamic testing since there is much opinion and little fact available regarding the effect of many of the variables of rod building on the performance characteristics of the cane. As one example, we (my wife is an engineer and is interested in the problem) are thinking of using a strobe light and video cam to examine the dynamic rebound of the cane to start to get a measure of an active functional parameter in addition to static testing. I am interested because 1) I am a scientist by trade; 2) I wish to better understand the medium; and 3) I want to be able to rationally develop heat treatment and finishing methods that give predictable results for me. My basic approach will be to establish a standard testing method and depending on the variable to be tested either do repeats or, with heat treatment, use a dual approach. First, subject strips to increasing heat and time and plot the results as a 3-dimensional matrix to examine for grossly visual trends. Statistical analysis will be done using the paired t-test method which is more powerful for this type of problem since it uses the pretreatment measurements of each strip as its own control. In my work I use this software frequently so it is no big deal to do the analysis. The second aspect will be to test a specific treatment regimen without incremental heating to compare to the incremental heating results (helps to check for artifacts in the first method). There are many more details that I won't cover here in terms of obtaining results which are valid and useful. So, from this limited nutshell view you can see that I have given this issue serious thought and have serious interest in your device. However, these efforts lie in the future for me as I consider this a long range effort (rodbuilding is a lifetime pursuit, is it not?). The joke I was referring to was in the name of the device. I assumed it was a bit tongue in cheek. Cane-o- is obvious. However, where does 'tine' come in? Look forward to your diagram.Jon McAnulty from tom@cet-inc.com Fri Jan 2 11:20:18 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I switched recently to a process published in "Fine Woodworking" forhand rubbed finish on furniture. It's a mix of equal parts ofTurpentine, Spar Varnish, and Boiled linseed oil. Poly varnish can alsobe used. The mixture is applied, left tack, and then wiped with a cloth.Three to four applications needed for domestics such as oak or walnut.When thoroughly dry, wax finish can be used. Good penetration into woodand also better waterproofing as compared to rubbed "oil only" finishes.Thought it might be worth trying as a finish for a rod but haven't triedit yet. Tom Whittle from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 2 12:44:06 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Jon -Let's start fresh. A short while ago it was discovered that some bamboohad become moldy - the question that came out of this was how did (if atall)that affect the strength of the bamboo. This then brought up the fact thateven with much discussion - there has never been a shared method oftestingSome have done testing of the different heat treating methods but......Anywaya friend and fellow maker asked what I thought and I couldn't give him ananswer based on anything tangable. The quest then became to create a testfixture that would take the quess work out of the picture and replace itwithfact. The end result was something that resembled a quillotine somewhat- thusthe name Caneotine ( even in the worst I try to find humor). What it isverbally is a slide (blunt ended) made of 1/2" baltic birch (my favorite jigmaterial) that comes to rest on a strip of bamboo that has been planed toaspecific dimension - in this case .125". The bamboo is supported by 'v'blocksthat are spaced at 6" -with the slide striking the strip at exact center. Aflat block was added to the top of the slide so that weights could beadded.The tests occured at the friends place and he handily had a bar bell setwitha variety of weights which worked for the test.To make the test real it was decided that a variety of samples wereneeded of some showing the effects of the mold and others free of thevisualgreying and that more than one sample of each group should be involved. As with anything new neither of us knew how much weight it wouldtake orhow separrated the results might be. There was some surprise when theweightrequired to break the .125" samples rose to 8 3/4# - tough stuff -unfortunately the greyed samples didn't fair as well - they broke withonly 61/4# weight - then another sample of good took a whole 9# . The test wasrunthrough again but the results showed the same spread. This test told usthatthe mold had a definate effect on the strength of bamboo - believed to be abreakdown of the vascular structure. OK - so you have these results - which in our minds is telling us that themolded bamboo is lesser quality stuff and convinced us both that we didn'twant to use it to make rods with - it then becomes a moral issue of whattosay and what to not say - behind the list I can talk to the one's I knowcloser with a little more freedom - but to the list in general what do youdo- a neutral approach would be to say that here is this neat idea of how totest something and hope that others picked up on it and followed throughto dotesting of their own. Well that failed - How do you tell folks bad newsanyway- A few times I know I have looked the butthead to the group - which isfine -At time in good conscience I feel I have to say something and let othersmakeup their own minds. This is perhaps the case here. I'm trying to politelysaythat there is a real problem with some bamboo and to get others toinvestigateas well. As for a drawing - it will be perhaps a couple of weeks - I go on theroad again shortly and life becomes more hectic - I hope the verbal mighbe ofhelp Wayne from jczimny@dol.net Fri Jan 2 13:06:06 1998 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Reed,I agree with Chris. We're all working to get the best tapers that wecan. We try hard to get all the other variables the same (glue, varnish,guides etc.). Then we can see how to change the thing by accuratelycutting the taper. If it doesn't work, then we put that rod in thestove, and modify the "taper" and cut again.I have heard of this practice of which you speak. I don't think many ofthe great craftsmen did this except maybe to flatten a node or perhapsremove a little left-over glue. It's obvious to any maker that removingenough material from the outside of the rod to make an obviousmodification to the action would risk taking too much power fiber fromthe shaft. I, for one, would never sell a rod which had been so "tuned". I'llcontinue to "tune" my rods from the "inside".John from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jan 2 13:11:15 1998 14:10:51 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: The Caneotine Wayne,Thanks. After a few read-throughs the image of what you aredescribing suddenly became clear. I plan to do testing in the future as I ponder the variable choices in rod construction. A standardized method is the only way to compare results so you are ahead of the curve on this one. The strip thickness is an important variable to standardize (.125 as you mentioned) but how long a strip are you using? Are you looking at end- deflection (ie. does the strip stick out and you bend the end like the end of a rod?) or are you inducing deflection between the supports? In either of these scenarios the deflection distance and weight supported will relate to the lever arm that is present. So, depending on the answer to the above questions, how far past the supports is the slide/weights placed or how long a segment is tested in the case of deflection between supports (assuming the weight would be centered)? Also, are you testing the strip with the rind side in tension or compression (I was assuming tension with an end-deflection method and compression with a between the supports method unlessthe apex of the triangle is turned up)? The mold issue is clearly an important one and from my previous reading your findings have gone against previous conventional (untested) wisdom that seemed to indicate that mold wasn't a problem if the cane is dry and are thus highly significant. JonP.S. Your book and tapes are tops. What an outstanding effort in terms of putting together a realistic "how-to" manual. In the tapes I noticed you have an unusual...ah...er...."screen presence". ;-) Thanks for the effort. from jczimny@dol.net Fri Jan 2 13:16:08 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Hi Ralph,How does the Behlen's hold up? And do you know what it is-Laquer, thinvarnish, or shellac? How do you apply it? ie. Do you apply it on thelath?John from RBausum@radiantsystems.com Fri Jan 2 13:30:47 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: The Caneotine Would this indicate that maybe all cane is tested in this manner? Wouldthisbe a measure of better cane in general? An interesting test! Having only been a reader of this server; waiting in my life when I will have the time to build my own rod, I have aquestion? Was there any thought in the direction of "molding" the samples thatperformed well?Maybe break down a single cane sample as follows: Select a single piece of cane; between 2 nodes.split this into 4 or more equal pieces. piece 1) should be preserved as well as possible.piece 2) should be exposed to the outdoor weather without protectionpiece 3) should be exposed to mold/forced into a moldy state ifpossible.piece 4) should kept submerged in a jar of water? Perform the same weight tests over a period of time, monthly?. Slicing an inch at a time. I would love to volunteer to perform this lengthy endeavor except I have neither the time nor the cane. Thanks to Wayne for his effort!!! [ Wayne Catt ]As with anything new neither of us knew how much weight it wouldtake orhow separated the results might be. There was some surprise whenthe weightrequired to break the .125" samples rose to 8 3/4# - tough stuff-unfortunately the greyed samples didn't fair as well - theybroke with only 61/4# weight - then another sample of good took a whole 9# . Thetest was runthrough again but the results showed the same spread. This testtold us thatthe mold had a definate effect on the strength of bamboo -believed to be abreakdown of the vascular structure. from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 2 14:14:05 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Jon - To add further clearity - the 12" strips were centered in the "v" blockswhich are permanently mounted so that the slide arm rests on thecenterline ofthe bamboo strips (lengthwise) - the pieces were flamed and heat treatedinthe same manner. The enamel was placed facing up so that it and the slidemetface to face. The question that we wanted to answer was whether or not there was adifference in the strength of the samples - which I think we answered.Laterthe same jig could be used to investigate differences in heat treating andsuch.Now I'm sure that there will be a certain amount of variation from culmtoculm and heat treating to heat treating but I feel that we have alreadyseenthat - there was a small differance between the 'good' strips (1/4#) andgiventime the weights can be graduated more - say to 1/8# or 1/16#increments formore subtile changes. And too as others look at it I'm sure that there will be severalrevisions and better insight into what is being shown through the tests. Iconsider what we did as just a start. WayneWhen I first started taping the video I did it right as I got home fromwork - but it was quickly discovered that you could hear the dog and kidsandTV in the background - then the taping schedule shifted to start at11:00pmwhen everyone except myself was in bed. So first I set up the shot andstartedthe camera and then raced around front and did the thing - It became oneofthose Do Yourself In projects - At first I thought no problem just make arod- if you look real close you will notice that the rod parts grow and shrink-It took making 5 rods to get the job done. Next time (ha ha ha) thing mightbea little different. But Thanks for the kind words> from christophe.lievremont@planetb.fr Fri Jan 2 14:32:29 1998 casimir.planetb.fr (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11139 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:29:48 GMT Subject: RE. Re: Newcommer and about silk lines Brian Creek wrote :Christophe - Thanks for your input.I too like the parabolic actions of P&M, htey strongly influenced one ofthe US's premier rodmakers, the late Paul Young, in designing hisparabolic series rods. P&M rods turn up for sale over on this side ofthe pond not infrequently, and they don't sell for that much, either. Brian ------- Very interesting Brian, I didn't know that the Pezon and Michel taper hasinfluenced some US rods. Just thought IMHO that the majority of themwerefaster than our European rods. Regards. Christophe.(In Digest). _________________________________________________________________ Christophe LIEVREMONT e-mail: Christophe.lievremont@planetb.fr1 bis rue Pasteur Tel/Fax.: (33) 03 80 38 13 7921000 DIJON (Fax in operation when theFRANCE Macintosh it depends on isswitched on) í Jus est ars boni et aequi O(D. I, I, lex 1, Ulpianus lib. I Institutionum) from christophe.lievremont@planetb.fr Fri Jan 2 14:32:37 1998 casimir.planetb.fr (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11147 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:29:57 GMT Subject: RE. Re: Newcommer and about silk lines Michael Leitheiser wrote :Maybe,.....This is kind of a chicken and egg thing. Young was buildingcomplex parabolic tapers prior to WW II. His 1927 catalog listed 4modelswith what he called "compound tapers" that some writers view asforerunnersof the Para 15s 17s etc. Ritz writes in "A Flyfishers Life" that the termparabolic was first used commercially in 1937 (when Ritz returned toEuropeafter 10 years in the U.S.). In 1936 there was some cross fertilization(Ritz and Payne discussed and compared rods). Ritz, Creusevaut and crewdid not perfect the Pezon et' Michel PPP Tapers until 1949.(Again,according to Ritz in "A Flyfishers Life") Payne introduced Parabolic tapers in this country in his pre WW IIcatalog.It is interesting to note that Ritz wrote the dedication to the chapter onrods in "A Flyfishers Life" as follows: "I dedicate the Chapters on tackleto the House of Hardy and to Jim Payne, who have been my inspiration." I fish a Fario Club and a Super Colorado PPP and I have had the pleasure ofcasting a couple of Young rods (though never a Payne). The Young tapersare much more complex and require (imho) a higher degree of castingskillsthan the Pezon et' Michel tapers. The point of all this is that from a historical perspective, a good casecan be made that Young and others independantly developed similar taperconcepts. There is evidence that both Ritz and Young interacted with andadmired Payne, but in terms of chronology, Young appears to have beenexperimenting with complex tapers prior to Ritz. (Remember, Ritz wasassembling rods from disparate parts in the 30s...Young was planningtapers from culm to glued up rod as early as 1927) Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane ------- Thanks for all these complete precisions, Mike. Christophe. from christophe.lievremont@planetb.fr Fri Jan 2 14:32:42 1998 casimir.planetb.fr (8.8.6/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA11164 for; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 21:30:06 GMT Subject: Re. A Garbolino Question John A. Whitaker wrote : I'm sorry to waste bandwidth on a non FF question, but... I have justlearned about Garbolino Poles and looking for a source to buy. Doesanyone know of a US distributor or someone who will ship to the states.Also, if anyone has any experience fishine these (especuially our UKfriends) I would appreciate being contacted off list for some buyingadvice. -------------- No problem John, the French company garbolino makes too fishing rods ;- )(many spinning and bait rods + just a few fly fishing rods even IMHO theyare not exactly what I shall call a fly rod). Actually I am not in my place of residence, so I can't have a look on mydifferent magazines and give you the address of this company but if youwant, when I shall be back in my home next week I can have a look onthem.Just tell me it. In that way you will be able to know if it is better to import themdirectly from France ( from a French seller or from their company) or tobuyit from the US distributor. Cheers. Christophe. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Jan 2 15:56:06 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine At 13:36 02/01/98 EST, Wayne wrote to Jon via the listJon -Let's start fresh. A short while ago it was discovered that somebamboohad become moldy - the question that came out of this was how did (if atall)that affect the strength of the bamboo. This then brought up the fact thateven with much discussion - there has never been a shared method oftestingSome have done testing of the different heat treating methods but ...... Jon & Wayne, Am right pleased that others have put some thought into testing of cane.While I was doing testing on heat treating a number of years ago, I didn'tinclude a breakage test but tried to envision just what a rod was designedto do: - deliver the cast- fight the fish from those thoughts, I used 3 test methods. Deflection test - the strip was mounted 30 degrees above horizontal andsupported @ the butt end. A measurement was taken vertically from thetipto the support structure. A weight was attached and the deflectionrecorded. This test was designed to determine the relative strengths ofthecane samples subjected to heat treatment methods being tested. Set test - a strip was supported similar to the above and a measurementtaken vertically from the tip to the support structure. A weight wasattached and left for a period of time. The weight was removed and theresultant was measured and recorded. The difference in height frombeforeand after the weight determined the response of the strip after fighting alarger fish and whether the cane would take a "set". Oscillation/damping test - the strip was supported in "V" blockshorizontally with the power fibers upwards. The strip was flexeddownwardto a preset value and released. The release method used was the back of aknife to give the strip as much as possible the opportunity to oscillate ina vertical manner. This test was designed to measure the dampeningactionin the rod material required to stop the secondary wave that occurs in theline when the tip travels over the horizontal during the forward/backwardstroke. This secondary wave in the line reduces line speed due to windresistance. This last test was a partial failure as the cane doesn'toscillate vertically for a long period of time. The strip tends to want tooscillate in a oval manner no matter how accurate the release method.Frommy conversations with others who use the oscillation test on finishedsections to determine the weak/strong side of a rod, they suggested thatfew finished rods will oscillate vertically for any period of time. As the testing was done to reflect the differences between strips of canethat had been subjected to various types and temp/time of heat treatingthere was little thought put into the actual strength values therefore nobreakage test. While a breakage test does have merit, is it the only thing to be used orshould we look @ the other characteristics of what makes a rod material. PS: The testing I did a number of years ago was replicated and confirmedbyTom Fulk and published in the last issue of the Planning Form. regards, Don Andersen from rmoon@dns.ida.net Fri Jan 2 16:35:37 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts J. C. Zimny wrote: Hi Ralph,How does the Behlen's hold up? And do you know what it is-Laquer, thinvarnish, or shellac? How do you apply it? ie. Do you apply it on thelath?John John I am sorry I was so short on information. I was in a bit of ahurry. The padding finish was originally made to coat pool cues, and is aturning finish. It requires a lathe for application. I generally use asmall pad of clean soft cloth, and just barely moisten the pad. (Myoriginal pint four years old still has about an inch in the bottle.) andapply it to the turning piece. I grip firmly and when the pad becomesnoticeably warm it is done., but should be allowed to sit for an hour orso before the was finish is put on. I am reasonably sure it is a lacquerof some type, but certainly not the same as regular commercial brushingorspraying lacquer. The solvent is different from lacquer thinner. It puts on a surprisingly simple coat and the finish seems to last. atleast four years, and may reel seats I did not wax. I understand Behlen'sputs out a turning finish as well, but I have not tried it and do not knowthe difference between the two. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jan 2 16:51:51 1998 RAA00246 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:51:56 -0500 Subject: Re: The Caneotine Wayne Giving some thought to the testing and getting a reasonable measureof what we are testing and how. I would suggest to document also wherethestrip came from in the culm and nodal spacing of that section. Also thepercieveddepth of power fiber in the cross section prior to dimensioning to .125. Also thedimension of the culm at the section to be tested. Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jan 2 16:58:35 1998 RAA00382 for ; Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:58:37 -0500 Subject: Re: Tuning rods John / Reed If you really want to "tune" a rod - let's talk about guide spacing,then matching a line to rod, and then establishing a good balance with aproper weightreel. As you know this can really change the perception of a rod instantly.Not much is said about guide spacing - it is the forgotten ingredient inbuilding a great rod. Taper alone is not enough. Regards Chris from DEMARALON@aol.com Fri Jan 2 17:56:11 1998 Subject: Re: Get-to-gether in Fergus? Contact Ted Knott at e-mail: teekay35@interlynx.net Harold Demarest, Charles H.Demarest, Inc. from longroge@isu.edu Fri Jan 2 18:05:38 1998 Subject: Idaho beginner I've been interested in making bamboo rods for quite some time, and I'mjustgetting started on building my first planing form. I'm wondering if thereareany other rodmakers in the eastern Idaho area on the list. Roger Long from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 2 18:07:44 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine RO>- A few times I know I have looked the butthead to the group - whichis fineRO>At time in good conscience I feel I have to say something and letothers makRO>up their own minds. This is perhaps the case here. I'm trying to politelysaRO>that there is a real problem with some bamboo and to get others toinvestigaRO>as well.RO> As for a drawing - it will be perhaps a couple of weeks - I go on theRO>road again shortly and life becomes more hectic - I hope the verbalmigh beRO>help RO>Wayne Wayne, In no way would most of us (I hope I speak for the group) ever consideryou to be a butthole for speaking the truth. (or even your own very realopinions) I'd even like to cut some locally grown cane and send it off to beguillotined - just to see how bad it is. Do you anchor the ends of do you let them float free? I'd be interestedin some more details of your machine, I think 1/8" cane, over a 6" gap,will sag quite a bit under static load (IMHO). Your idea sounds close tothe Charpie (sp?) "V" notch metal tester, but without the notch. Wouldn't a piece of cane placed into a fixture with a weight suppendedoff the other end be more akin to the loads applied during a cast? Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 2 18:07:46 1998 Subject: Re: The Caneotine RO>WayneRO> When I first started taping the video I did it right as I got homefromRO>work - but it was quickly discovered that you could hear the dog andkids anRO>TV in the background - then the taping schedule shifted to start at11:00pmRO>when everyone except myself was in bed. So first I set up the shot andstartRO>the camera and then raced around front and did the thing - It becameone ofRO>those Do Yourself In projects - At first I thought no problem just makea roRO>- if you look real close you will notice that the rod parts grow andshrinkRO>It took making 5 rods to get the job done. Next time (ha ha ha) thingmightRO>a little different. But Thanks for the kind words> Wayne, I recall you saying that you were going to be revising your book, [Book,Handcrafting, Fly Rods, Bamboo - Mark I Mod 2 (rev X-98), color- white,one each] any chance to get an old binder "refilled" at a discount? Maybe send back the title page first - like one does with softwareupdates? Don Burns from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jan 2 18:53:17 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Greg, I build reel seats and other components. I dip my fillers in HelmsmanSparUrathane. Usually three coats. Lightly sanding in between coats.Just makesureyou leave around .010in. for the varnish or the filler will be too big aroundafteryour done. This is a very hard,glossy finish. I've been using it for years. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Jan 2 19:04:15 1998 Subject: 60* Pt. Received my 60* pt. in the mail today. Now I can get to work on myforms and stop bothering you guys. Thanks! Steve from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jan 2 19:06:16 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. Another good book to get on lathe operation is. The Home Shop Machinist.It costs $26.50 per year for a subscription. There address is:The Home Shop MachinistP. O. Box 1810Traverse City, Michigan 49685-1810 I don't have there phone number Dave LeClair from linesides@email.msn.com Fri Jan 2 19:16:37 1998 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:16:04 -0800 SMTPSVC;Fri, 2 Jan 1998 17:16:02 -0800 Subject: restoration Could really use some help restoring 2 rods I recently came across.One rod is 6 1/2 ft. the other 5 1/2 ft. Both need to be glued backtogether and the longer needs to be straightened. The ones I`ve doneso far haven`t been in this serious shape. These are not fly rods, butboat / pier poles. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Kevin from EMiller257@aol.com Fri Jan 2 19:27:28 1998 Subject: Re: Resolutions Sounds good Bill. Do you make them nodeless or just splice tip and buttpieces? Or do you start with a full 12 ft. culm? Your expertice isappreciated. Ed Miller from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Jan 2 20:03:16 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod I missed something. What's "the Force?" Brian from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Jan 2 20:37:50 1998 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Chris Bogart wrote: John / Reed If you really want to "tune" a rod - let's talk about guidespacing,then matching a line to rod, and then establishing a good balancewith a proper weightreel. As you know this can really change the perception of a rodinstantly.Not much is said about guide spacing - it is the forgotten ingredientinbuilding a great rod. Taper alone is not enough. Chris,You mention1/ Line.2/ Guide spacing.but you forgot:3/ Finish - too heavy or soft will affect performance.The better old rods had a thin finish.4/ Guide type - small, low profile snakes keep the lineunder control and, despite prevailing opinions, do not generate any morecontact with the line than large snakes.5/ Windings - some intermediates might perk up anotherwise sluggish rod.etc.Best regards,ReedP.S. - I still think that "tuning" which involves removal of enamelshould not be decried, but rather is just another tool in the hand of acraftsman. Each piece of cane from each culm is different, adjusting theplaning form may not give you the control you may need, IMHO. from SealRite@aol.com Fri Jan 2 20:48:33 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmakers Elbow You can get an elastic splint that relieves the pressure & strain on theelbow. They are sold by most drug stores. They fit right below the elbow. Craig from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Fri Jan 2 21:18:51 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. At 07:55 PM 1/2/98 EST, Dave LeClair wrote: Another good book to get on lathe operation is. The Home Shop Machinist.It costs $26.50 per year for a subscription. There address is:The Home Shop MachinistP. O. Box 1810Traverse City, Michigan 49685-1810 I don't have there phone number The phone number is 800-447-7367 or you can connect at: http://members.aol.com/vpshop/hsm.htm Later,Johnny------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 2 21:25:06 1998 Subject: Re: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod Carsten,I built a number of 8 ', 3 pc. straight line taper rods for #7 line oneof which would cast delicately 25' of #7 line AND 110' of #7 line withoutdouble hauling(I have no fingers on my right hand). Put an 8 wgt. on it andthe parameters shrink considerably. I have no explanation nor have I beenableto duplicate it, but I'll keep trying.Happy NewYear to you and the rest of this great list.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 2 21:43:19 1998 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Reed,I don't know if what I do would be considered tuning but I do file thefinished sticks for crtain dimensions if my glued dimensions are a bit offI.e. toomuch off the tip so some wood is removed further down the line tooraise the stress back up to close to the original theory,etc. regards,Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Fri Jan 2 22:01:05 1998 Subject: Re: Tuning rods Ofcourse, remove the enamel. But one can remove the enamel before itgoes to the final cutting. Thus, the outer surface of the strip isperfectly flat and provides accurate registration on the mill or in theplanning fixture. In tweaking design specs, it is wise to work with one variable at atime.John from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Jan 3 04:10:27 1998 (CET) ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:07:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Wayne wrote The discussion has been great in illustrating the character of thedifferent actions and hopefully it has opened you to a betterunderstanding ofwhat the options are - but it still falls to the individual to make theapplication - the question is ' what is it that you want the rod to do ?'-you do have the control here. When posting my question about a "powerfull" 8 foot rod, I, rather naively,hoped somebody would have some sort of recipe for "THE rod". You nowthatrod, it simply does it all perfectly: short and long casting, roll- casting,all of it. It is perfect for wide river fishing, as well as fishing 4 feetwide streams. Years of fishing different plastic rods never revealed THErod. Enter splitcane rods. Since fishing my first cane rod I have neverlooked back. First I strived to master the necessary techniques: tempering, planing,gluing. Got reasonably good at it. building rods for friends, restoring oldrods. By the help of one good friend in particular I reached the stagewhere I could say: This is not bad, in fact, it is rather good. You mightknow the feeling - one compares ones own rods to factorymade ones, andtheyare alike in looks and feeling. Next stage was joining Rodmakers. Once again, a whole new game started:stress curves. Sir D back in october 1997 gave an explanation, basic hesays, of how to read stress curves. That, and the Hexrod programme hasonceagain started the search for THE rod. The debate "subject 8' #6 dryfly rod"has, once again, given me tools for the quest for THE rod. Whats is new isthe knowledge, that this taper simply does not exist. But as You wiselyremarks, the discussion has opened my eyes to the question: What do Iwantthis rod to do - and to the possibility of making that rod. Ahead lies many rods. I never wanted to be a guru, but aquireing knowledgeas a rodmaker, in some way or another, does include the obligation tosharethat knowledge. That is, IMHO, what this this list is about. In my ownhumble way I try to introduce that knowledge to friends and foes alike. Ifthat makes me a (very small) guru, so be it. you do have the control here from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Jan 3 04:45:04 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA12992 for; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:42:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod --Hank (FISHWOOL) wrote----Carsten,I built a number of 8 ', 3 pc. straight line taper rods for #7 lineoneof which would cast delicately 25' of #7 line AND 110' of #7 linewithoutdouble hauling(I have no fingers on my right hand). Put an 8 wgt. on itandthe parameters shrink considerably. I have no explanation nor have I beenableto duplicate it, but I'll keep trying.Happy NewYear to you and the rest of this great list.Hank. Hank I have a 7 feet of own construction, made from a little bit of this and alittle bit of that. By sheer coincidence it's a joy to fish with a #3 WF.It was made just to examine a different way of hardening. (my soft spottogether with the quality of cane) Due to a computer break down I lost thetaper. (Real men don't do back-ups,they just cry when something goeswrong)Build by the odd scraps, I cant duplicate it. So I think I now how Youfeel. Happy New Year to You too Carsten from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Jan 3 05:30:44 1998 ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 11:36:56 GMT Subject: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values. At 17:06 02/01/98 +0100, you wrote: ----------From: J.Cooper Subject: Re:Lathe books, accessories, hidden values.Date: 2. januar 1998 13:28 ----------John Cooper wrote "The Amateur's Lathe" by L. H. Sparry I'm pleased to report that this is an excellent book. It was writtenyearsago, when Britain still ruled the waves, so the idioms are rather dated.Nevertheless, it has been edited and reprinted several times, and theinformation contained therein is extensive. the book was first published in 1948 and is now, I think, in its eigth orninth edition.It contains a chapter of useful additional tools, which canbe made by the reader. Quote: "Value... its unwise to pay too much, but it's unwise to pay too little.When You pay too much you loose a little money, that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes loose everything, because thethingyou bought was incapable of doing the thing you bought it to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and gettingalot. It can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it's well to addsomething for the risk you run. And if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better." John Ruskin (1819 - 1900) John I do agree with you but have to remark: The quality of the best, be itPaynes, Myfords or whatever, does not show it's full potential, until thethings are USED. Paynes hanging on the wall - no sir. They were built tofish. Myfords are built for turning. In these times too many people withtoo much money buy to much just for the vanity of possesion - not forusing. (Not hinted at your friend with the Myford. I have met a couple ofguys of that type - they want hands on). Unfortunately most people have to make a choice. If I have to choosebetween stuff for my hobbies and paying the mortgage, I feel, I seriouslydo not have a choice. So, lots of times I have to be satisfied with thesecond best. Not that I like it, but thats the way it is for me, and Isuspect, for a lot of people.Still would love to have a brace of Hardys anda couple of Holland & Holland shotguns - and the time and money to use itall to its full potential. John - this is in no way ment as flaming. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen Can't argue with any of that Carsten, except that Boss (London) shotgunsarePROFOUNDLY better than Holland & Holland. Not many of them around, andthey're incredibly expensive. Like the RIGHT fishing rod in the RIGHTsituation - the Boss just melds with the user - becomes part of him - almostdisappears. Fancy you knowing that old Ruskin quote. I use it in my own company'ssalesbrochures. Never quite felt the same about Ruskin since I failed to get intoRuskin College (Oxford). It wasn't the old fart's fault - he was sixty-oddyears dead, but the name still rankles after 35 years. He's reckoned to beone of the millennium's great pedants, but you can't gainsay his addictionto quality. John Cooper (England) from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Jan 3 08:53:26 1998 Subject: Leonard "Twin Peaks" Listers This regards Sir D's reference to the Leonard 6'10" listed in the taperarchive. Can anyone tell me whether this is a three-piece rod? Also, has somebodycastit? Can you tell me anything about the way it performs? Thanks,Davy from jfoster@gte.net Sat Jan 3 10:55:57 1998 Subject: arc mac-creator="4D4F5353" Dec archives posted jwf from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Jan 3 12:51:06 1998 Subject: Re: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod -----Original Message----- Carsten,I built a number of 8 ', 3 pc. straight line taper rods for #7 lineoneof which would cast delicately 25' of #7 line AND 110' of #7 line withoutdouble hauling(I have no fingers on my right hand). Put an 8 wgt. on it andthe parameters shrink considerably. I have no explanation nor have I beenableto duplicate it, but I'll keep trying.Happy NewYear to you and the rest of this great list. Hank. Happy New Year Hank. I hope someday to see the rod and you casting andmaybe learn how one casts such long distances! I've always wanted acastingteacher to show me what is really going on. Ted G. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Jan 3 13:01:35 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: dumb question???? Where can I get the best of the Planing Form, address? phone number? Patrick from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Sat Jan 3 13:51:58 1998 Subject: Re: dumb question???? At 11:01 AM 1/3/98 -0800, Patrick wrote: Where can I get the best of the Planing Form, address? phone number? Address is: Alder Creek Enterprises, Inc.PO Box 365Hastings, MI 49058 Price is $29.95 plus $3.50 for postage and handling. ($5.00 p&h for Canada,$10.00 outside N. America) Later,Johnny------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Jan 3 14:41:50 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA24463 for; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 21:38:19 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod ----------From: Brian & Michelle Creek Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rodDate: 3. januar 1998 03:01 I missed something. What's "the Force?" Brian Brian Larry wrote "Carsten; you'd be hard pressed to beat Wayne's 8' 6wt. When we cast therodpictured on the front of his book, it was promptly dubbed "The Force". Larry Blan" Best regards Carsten from Bopep@aol.com Sat Jan 3 16:22:41 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts I've been using a epoxy floor finish called Glitsa, it has it' pluses andminuses.Pluses:Cures really hard...very scratch resistant.After 4 coats, you buff out any brush strokesit's glossy as heck!Minuses:It has a limited pot life after mixing of only 3 days so you hafta mixsmallbatches at a ratio of 20/1.Ya gotta buy it in 1gal. cans at about $50.It's toxic as hell!! I always wear a mask...some flooring contractors won'tuse it for this reason I'm going to try the helmsman soon... Rob Hoffhines from Bopep@aol.com Sat Jan 3 16:47:13 1998 Subject: Re:Gillum 8' 6wt... This is a taper of my second rod and it still blows me away. I miced itovervarnish, subtracted 4 thou and it turned out to be a good shooter for theRoaring Fork. It's a fun action, but I would never call it lyrical. the stresscurve looks pretty goofy compared to others I've hexrodded...butneverthelessit shoots line like a M.F. It even did "okay" casting clousers for Kankakeeriver smallmouths this fall but I'm planning (planing?) on a para 15 forthatduty next year.Oh yes, does anybody have a Payne 201? 01 .07305 .10010 .11815 .14520 .16125 .17530 .18235 .19140 .20345 .21250 .24055 .25660 .27865 .29870 .30975 .32780 .35185 .35590 .35595 .355 Rob Hoffhines from brewer@teleport.com Sat Jan 3 17:05:22 1998 PAA28107 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 15:05:06 - Subject: Wanted: Granger Jasper Silk Last year, Bob Corsetti had some spools (900 yards or so) of 00 Granger orange jasper silk thread. I should have bought one then, but, well you know... If anyone has a spare spool (orange or b&w) and is willing to sell, please reply. Thanks, Randy Brewer Ya think? from mathieu@compmore.net Sat Jan 3 17:09:54 1998 SAA09307 for ; Sat, 3 Jan 1998 18:08:58 - "john"via SMTP by mail.compmore.net, id smtpd009302; Sat Jan 3 18:08:561998 Subject: How to change address D7E98ED1507F17CD0B6B0B48" --------------D7E98ED1507F17CD0B6B0B48 I have change my email address and I would now like to have the listcomming to my new address instead of this address. How do I do it?? Mynew address is jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca. I would like it if this couldhappen soon. Thanks for your help in this matter John McKinnon --------------D7E98ED1507F17CD0B6B0B48 I have change my email address and I would now like to have the listcomming Mynew address is jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca. Iwould like it if this could happen soon. Thanks for your help in thismatter John McKinnon --------------D7E98ED1507F17CD0B6B0B48-- from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Jan 3 17:44:24 1998 Subject: Re: 8ft. 6 wt. dryfly rod Thanks. Sometimes there are so many posts on this list my deleter'sspeed exceeds my ability to read. Brian from DRBRAD4D@aol.com Sat Jan 3 18:25:29 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 200 I was interested in building Payne's 200 4 wt 3 pc. rod. However, there isnolisting with the taper as to the size of the ferrules. Does anyone knowwhatthe ferrule sizes would be? Moreover, what is the line weight for the PaulYoung Para 15 and ferrule size for that rod? Thanks,Brad from DRBRAD4D@aol.com Sat Jan 3 18:31:15 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps I've built 5 bamboo rods thus far and I am having a problem with thepolyurethane cracking at the bamboo-ferrule wrap. Does anyone haveinsight asto why this might be happening? Thanks,Brad from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 3 19:03:26 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps In a message dated 98-01-03 19:40:28 EST, you write: I've built 5 bamboo rods thus far and I am having a problem with thepolyurethane cracking at the bamboo-ferrule wrap. Does anyone have insight as to why this might be happening? I've wondered about this myself. The two piece rods I've made doesn'tdo this, but the three piece rods I've made do. It's always the lowerwrap of the lower ferrule. I was able to look at quite a number of older rods recently, and I'dsay about half of them had the same problem, especially the multi-piece rods, although there were a few two piecers that had the samecracking. All the Orvis cane rods I saw had the cracking on the lowerwrap, multi-piece or not. Darryl Hayashida from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat Jan 3 19:04:06 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps Brad: Whole lot a flexin' goin' on. What kind of poly did you use? Have youconsidered traditional spar varnish for the wraps? This helps to minimizetheproblem but doesn't totally eliminate it. --Rich from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 3 19:16:07 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 98-01-03 05:14:37 EST, you write: When posting my question about a "powerfull" 8 foot rod, I, rathernaively,hoped somebody would have some sort of recipe for "THE rod". You nowthatrod, it simply does it all perfectly: short and long casting, roll- casting,all of it. It is perfect for wide river fishing, as well as fishing 4 feetwide streams. It doesn't exist. That's why flyfishermen have to own several rods. I currently own 6 graphite rods, and 8 bamboo rods. I've reduced the rods I am going to settle on to five. 9 ft. 8wt. graphite (far in the future, for if I ever go afterbigger species)9 ft. 6wt. graphite (already own this one) 8 ft. 6wt. bamboo (traded for this one)7 ft. 4wt. bamboo (already made this one)6 ft. 3 in. 2wt. bamboo (in the process of making this one) Sure you can have one rod to fish in all situations, but you'llhave to put up with the fact that you will be "overgunned" in many situations and "undergunned" in many situations. Of all of my rods, the one that I use for the most fishing situations is the 7ft. 4wt. If I have to I can double haul andcast in the 60 ft. range, but it still does a good job when thecast is so short only the leader is out past the tip. There simply isn't only one rod that will do it all perfectly. Darryl Hayashida from DRBRAD4D@aol.com Sat Jan 3 20:01:04 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps I'm using varathane marine spar varnish. Brad from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Jan 3 20:55:44 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps I'm using varathane marine spar varnish. Brad My .02 worth: I use spar urethane and have no problem if and only if I donot run the thread down more than a single wrap onto the bamboo. With apinned ferrule, this seems to me to be ok. Ted G. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Jan 3 21:58:35 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps How did you prepare the tabs of the ferrules that were used on these 5rods??? Did you taper them ??? Did you crown them to further reduce theenddimension?? What you have described is a 'casting fracture' and by firstcrowning the ferrule tabs and then tapering them as well the tabs becomemoreflexible and lengthen the transition from rigid to flexing. Also when gluingthe ferrules on do you invert the rod section so that any sagging will acttofill the gap between rod section to ferrule wall. Another factor is the sizeand type of thread that you are using. Here there is a balance betweenthreadsize and holding strength - '00' nylon is the norm - but a size 'A' has moreholding - silk of equal size has less strength and the smaller silks haveevenless yet. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jan 3 22:36:46 1998 Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:36:38 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod When posting my question about a "powerfull" 8 foot rod, I, rathernaively,hoped somebody would have some sort of recipe for "THE rod". You nowthatrod, it simply does it all perfectly: short and long casting, roll- casting,all of it. It is perfect for wide river fishing, as well as fishing 4 feetwide streams. Darryl says:It doesn't exist. That's why flyfishermen have to own several rods. I currently own 6 graphite rods, and 8 bamboo rods. Of all of my rods, the one that I use for the most fishing situations is the 7ft. 4wt. If I have to I can double haul andcast in the 60 ft. range, but it still does a good job when thecast is so short only the leader is out past the tip. There simply isn't only one rod that will do it all perfectly. Darryl Hayashida Darryl mention this little rod a lot and for good reason. It casts a short line well, roll casts very well and as Darryl says, when double hauled will cast 60'+I find myself using this rod which I made for my son when I prob should be using a rod with more backbone because of conditions like strong current/big fish simply because it is so nice a rod. This does leave me somewhat under gunned sometimes though. I'm repairing the tip now due to breaking it while netting a biggish fish. I think it was a combination of too strong a tippet due to bottom bouncing nymphs in a strong current and the rod being a little short to allow enough spring when the fish flicks about up close during netting. I could be wrong about that but it all happens so fast it's hard to tell. I recently made a PHY Driggs for a fellow who wanted me to fish it before sending it on to him (lucky me) and liking paras as I do, I prefer this rod for similar fishing conditions as it will cast further and with a heavier fly for me. It may not roll cast as well and seems to handle fish about the same.Which one is better is dependent on your style and mood at the time.Owning both is recomended but that's only for this type of fishing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from EMiller257@aol.com Sat Jan 3 23:29:50 1998 Subject: Re: Banty Rods I have a Heddon 3 piece rod that is in sorry shape but the reel seat is OK. Ibought it several years ago along with a slightly better rod, an 8ft., 3pc"Expert". Let me know if your interested. Ed Miller (EMILLER257@aol.com) from jfoster@gte.net Sun Jan 4 00:14:39 1998 Subject: Linking mac-creator="4D4F5353" Would whomever has the web address for the artisan who builds theleather rodcases please send it to me.. I'd like to build a link to hissite.. JWF from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 00:42:09 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 98-01-03 23:47:17 EST, you write: I'm repairing the tip now due to breaking it while netting a biggish fish. I think it was a combination of too strong a tippet due to bottom bouncing nymphs in a strong currentand the rod being a little short to allow enough spring when the fish flicks about up close during netting. I could be wrong about that but it all happens so fast it's hard to tell. Truth is, I've beefed up the tip section myself. The taper as it is inWayne's book tops out a 243,000 at the 9 inch point. I have increasedthe diameter of the 5, 10, and 15 inch points to .074, .086. and .104which gives the rod a max of 212,000 at the 9 inch point. I didn't mention this before because I thought I was being overly cautious in doing this, and nobody else ever said anything about the tipbreaking. I usually try to stay near the 200,000 point as a maximum stress value. Darryl Hayashida from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 4 01:27:41 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id BAA15735 for; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 01:31:20 -0600 Subject: Test - ignore please Test RTC from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Jan 4 04:22:17 1998 (CET) ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 11:16:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Sir D wrote Truth is, I've beefed up the tip section myself. The taper as it is inWayne's book tops out a 243,000 at the 9 inch point. I have increasedthe diameter of the 5, 10, and 15 inch points to .074, .086. and .104which gives the rod a max of 212,000 at the 9 inch point. I didn't mention this before because I thought I was being overly cautious in doing this, and nobody else ever said anything about the tipbreaking. I usually try to stay near the 200,000 point as a maximum stress value. Darryl Hayashida NOW You tell us. My birthday present for myself (Yes, today is the day) isunwrapping the blank for the 7'#4 which was glued up a couple of daysago.I am looking forward to fighting all those big fish, Tony is talking about.About beefing up the tip: Has it altered the action of the rod? Another birthday present for myself: Have started building "The Force",splits ready for planing, tempering done. So You see, we don't hang arounddoing nothing. ("We" are yours truly and my 10 years old daughter whothinkits fun helping daddy making those funny poles) I know, THE rod doesn't exist. But I know of this taper, You know. If Ibeefed up the tip, and if.................................. Best regards Carsten from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jan 4 04:58:52 1998 Sun, 4 Jan 1998 18:58:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod wugate.wustl.edu id EAA13609 On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: Sir D wrote Truth is, I've beefed up the tip section myself. The taper as it is inWayne's book tops out a 243,000 at the 9 inch point. I have increasedthe diameter of the 5, 10, and 15 inch points to .074, .086. and .104which gives the rod a max of 212,000 at the 9 inch point. I didn't mention this before because I thought I was being overly cautious in doing this, and nobody else ever said anything about the tipbreaking. I usually try to stay near the 200,000 point as a maximum stress value. Darryl Hayashida NOW You tell us. My birthday present for myself (Yes, today is the day) isunwrapping the blank for the 7'#4 which was glued up a couple of daysago.I am looking forward to fighting all those big fish, Tony is talking about.About beefing up the tip: Has it altered the action of the rod? Another birthday present for myself: Have started building "The Force",splits ready for planing, tempering done. So You see, we don't hangarounddoing nothing. ("We" are yours truly and my 10 years old daughter whothinkits fun helping daddy making those funny poles) I know, THE rod doesn't exist. But I know of this taper, You know. If Ibeefed up the tip, and if.................................. Best regards Carsten I wouldn't worry overly about the tip breaking, I've mentioned before that I'm a bit of a gorilla waving a stick and although using a landing net for a fish you intend to return isn't good practice I had to in this case and the fish was still full of fight as I don't like playing them out till they are exhausted if it's going back. Still, Darryl have you made a rod as per the taper and if so how does it compare casting wise with your mod? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from SealRite@aol.com Sun Jan 4 06:49:58 1998 Subject: sizing ferrules Does anybody have an easy equation for matching ferrule size to blanksize.Is the sizing on the ferrules ID of the female part, or the OD of thebamboo? Thanks Craig from rmoon@dns.ida.net Sun Jan 4 07:35:03 1998 Subject: Re: Idaho beginner Roger Long wrote: I've been interested in making bamboo rods for quite some time, and I'mjustgetting started on building my first planing form. I'm wondering if thereareany other rodmakers in the eastern Idaho area on the list. Roger Long Roger there are a bunch of us. Contact me off lisy ay rmoon@ida.net Ralph from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sun Jan 4 07:56:48 1998 Subject: Linking Jerry-Jimmy Acord....http://www.turtlemoon.com from denny@interlynx.net Sun Jan 4 09:15:51 1998 wolf.interlynx.net (8.7.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA23329 for Subject: books and videos I am looking for the address and phone number to Angler's Art to obtainsome books and videos on building bamboo rods.Thanks DennyStoney Creek from tball@mail.portup.com Sun Jan 4 10:40:35 1998 Subject: Re: books and videos Denny, the address for Anglers Art is PO Box 148, Plainfield, PA 17081800-848-1020. Great folks to do business with. Tom from tball@mail.portup.com Sun Jan 4 10:57:36 1998 Subject: Lathe Books boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1908.09C0B960" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1908.09C0B960 There a lot of good reprints on Metal Lathe books and other old time = Lindsay Publications IncPO Box 538, Bradley IL 60915-0538 815- 935- 5353Ask them to send you their catalogue on Metal Working Books. Lots of =good info even tho itis old books. You can even get books telling you =how to build your own lathe. Tom ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1908.09C0B960 lot of good reprints on Metal Lathe books and other old time metal = from Lindsay= IncPO Box = 935-5353Askthem to = ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD1908.09C0B960-- from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 4 12:16:59 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id MAA04050 for; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 12:20:51 -0600 Subject: Hey Jerry, My mail isn't coming in from the List Proc Hey folks, I'd like for J.Foster to e-mail me regarding my status on thelist proc. I haven't received a message since 12-25-97. I sent a testin - no response. I guess you guys are getting this message. I triedto rejoin - no good. I tried to e-mail michael@... undeliverable. Ifthis makes the list could you email me direct and tell me what to trynext? Thanks, Rick from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 13:30:44 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod In a message dated 98-01-04 06:00:18 EST, you write: Still, Darryl have you made a rod as per the taper and if so how does it compare casting wise with your mod? The third rod I made was the taper right out of the book, myDad now owns it. With the modification, it seems to take abit more of a "flick" to get the leader to turn over when castingat short (less than 20 ft.) distances. But I also use leadersthat are 12 to 18 ft. long when using this rod for dry fly fishing. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 13:41:24 1998 Subject: Re: sizing ferrules In a message dated 98-01-04 07:54:14 EST, you write: Does anybody have an easy equation for matching ferrule size to blanksize.Is the sizing on the ferrules ID of the female part, or the OD of thebamboo? Measure the blank at the place you are going to put the ferrule.Multiply that measurement by 64, and that is your ferrule size. your ferrule goes - .206 x 64 = 13.18 I would buy a 13/64thsferrule. I usually go for the next largest ferrule when I reach the.5 mark. That is, if the measurement was over 13.50 I would buy a 14/64ths ferrule. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 13:44:41 1998 Subject: Re: Hey Jerry, My mail isn't coming in from the List Proc In a message dated 98-01-04 13:24:41 EST, you write: Hey folks, I'd like for J.Foster to e-mail me regarding my status on thelist proc. Mike Biondo is the list keeper.... from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 4 13:58:30 1998 Subject: Re: sizing ferrules I forgot to mention, measure the blank flat to flat. Darryl Hayashida from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Jan 4 14:43:22 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA01848 for; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 21:38:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod ----------Tony It seems like I'm never going to find out, how this particular rod work.Unwrapped and scraped it this afternoon, and the bl.... thing was too thickall over, some 0,013 inches. Since I don't go for sanding down blanks, I'lljust have to start all over again. Being a mere mortal these things happen,though, but I still feel stupid. The fault I made was in adding 0,01 inch to each split i order tocompensate for the final scraping away of the hard layer on the outside.(forgot the exact word). Checking the Archives I guess I should have addedjust 0,003 per split. Should have made some notes, since I obviously can'ttrust my memory. Tony, I'd like your, and anybody else's, comments on this: I usually do notscrape away the hard, outer layer (still can't remember the right word)until after glueing. I have heard of scraping away this layer before thefinal planing of the splits, in order to have better control with the finaldimensions of the splits. Best regards Carsten from Canerods@aol.com Sun Jan 4 14:43:47 1998 Subject: Re: Wanted: Granger Jasper Silk In a message dated 98-01-03 18:09:07 EST, you write: )Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Last year, Bob Corsetti had some spools (900 yards or so) of 00 Granger orange jasper silk thread. I should have bought one then, but, well you know... If anyone has a spare spool (orange or b&w) and is willing to sell, please reply. Thanks, Randy Brewer >> Randy, Good luck! I'm still looking for the red/black jasper that I should've bought too. Belvoirdale's remaining stock of Elephant red/black isn't the same - don'tknow about their blk/orange. I do have a single spool of W&M Gragerblk/orangeand would swap for equal amount of the W&M red/blk. Won't sell it for L orM(love or money ) Don from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Jan 4 16:09:57 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Carsten - With regard to leaving the enamel on until last, .003 is not a badguess, but what you should do is measure. The thickness might vary a bitfromculm to culm, and even from tip to butt within a culm.Re: the oversize sections. Rather than throw them away, maybe you cancome upwith something useful, even though it won't exactly be what Waynedesigned.Look at the dimensions and see if you can extend the tip by 6-8 inchs bysplicing on a tip section. Try to arrange things so that the taper is asclose to the original as possible. I would try to put the splice at thesecondguide,where the tip will be about .110, and the splice can be hidden underthewraps and reinforced by them. Cut a length about equal to the tipextensionoff the butt. This will, of course, offset the the ferrule position, and thetip will be longer than the butt. You will also need the next larger sizeferrule, no doubt.If anyone asks you why you made such a funny looking rod, tell them youheardCharles Ritz experimented with offset ferrules, and you wanted to try ittoo.Or, put a removable fighting butt on the rod so it looks right in the rod bag.Under no circumstances should you ever admit to making a mistake toanyoneother than another rodmaker, as your reputation will be ruined. Remember,allyour rods are instruments fit for the gods, just like all of mine :-). from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jan 4 17:51:53 1998 Mon, 5 Jan 1998 07:51:44 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod wugate.wustl.edu id RAA28080 On Sun, 4 Jan 1998, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: Tony It seems like I'm never going to find out, how this particular rod work.Unwrapped and scraped it this afternoon, and the bl.... thing was too thickall over, some 0,013 inches. Since I don't go for sanding down blanks, I'lljust have to start all over again. Being a mere mortal these thingshappen,though, but I still feel stupid. The fault I made was in adding 0,01 inch to each split i order tocompensate for the final scraping away of the hard layer on the outside.(forgot the exact word). Checking the Archives I guess I should haveaddedjust 0,003 per split. Should have made some notes, since I obviouslycan'ttrust my memory. Tony, I'd like your, and anybody else's, comments on this: I usually do notscrape away the hard, outer layer (still can't remember the right word)until after glueing. I have heard of scraping away this layer before the>final planing of the splits, in order to have better control with the finaldimensions of the splits. Best regards Carsten Carsten,just keep going like you intended it to be that way. You'll prob wind up with a perfectly good rod, just not the one you intended. I'm possitive there are perfectly good rods around a lot worse that that.You may now have a 7' #8? May not be a bad thing if it casts. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fiveside@net-gate.com Sun Jan 4 18:14:18 1998 TAA21778 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 19:14:14 - Subject: More Resolution Ed Miller asks about one-piecers, nodeless or spliced? My first one piecershad splices under the cork. Now I am fearlessly into nodeless and the rodlengths are limited only by the space in my van. But practically speakingseven feet, three inches is where I draw the line. Consider these fouradvantages to no- ferrule rods: 1.The ferrule moment is no longer in the taper calculation. This results in athinner and lighter rod with equal or better performance. 2. There isno need to compromise tapers at the rod's midpoint to accommodate aferruledimensioned in discrete sixty- fourths. The rod designer has completefreedom. 3. No ferrules to be made or bought, fitted, loosen and wear out.4. No metallic dead space in the middle of the rod.End of soapbox. Bill 1/3/98 from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Jan 4 18:28:21 1998 (CET) ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:22:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Tom Good of You to respond to my cry for help. I've considered splicing, butrejected the idea. When it comes to rodmaking, I'm a bit pedantic. Whatbothers me is that I wanted to make Waynes 7ft. #4 - and flopped. Thatrod,exclusive of splices, is going to be the next in my armoury, come hell orhigh water. I allways set out to make the next rod the best, I've evermade. See what happened...... The only way to avoid mistakes is to avoid doing anything at all, but I'velearned my lesson : Like You wrote, measuring the thickness of the enamelof each and every split before starting final planing. There are major gods and minor gods. Being a (very) minor guru, my rodsarement for minor gods. She who must be obeyed simply remarked that even God had to have somepractise, before he created woman. How is that for compassion. Best regards Carsten from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Jan 4 18:43:09 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA23562 for; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 01:37:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Tony Ive got my rep in the family to consider. I'm supposed to be the master ofthe household so I am supposed to excel in male hobbies like rodbuilding,dishwashing and general tidying up. :-) No one ever heard of a 7ft. #8, so I guess that blank will fade away in acorner. Should anyone ever ask, I'll just call it a planing exercise. Still would value your opinion of pros and cons re. removing enamel beforeor after gluing. Best regards Carsten from denny@interlynx.net Sun Jan 4 19:35:41 1998 UAA20309 for ; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:35:05 - Subject: Bamboo Rod Building Info I am a new comer to bamboo rod building and am looking for books andvideos on the subject. I have the Garrison and Carmicheal book and the Kreider book. I am now looking to get my hands the "Best of the Planing Form" and"Handcrafting the Bamboo Fly Rod".Any suggestions on where to lay my hands on these would be very helpful. I am also trying to find videos on the same topic, again any suggestions?Yours truly,Eager to Learn and Get Started....Denny from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 4 19:39:08 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps In regards to the cracking of the finish at the ferrule I have seen and castmany rods thru the 31 years I have been addicted to this hobby and I haveseenthis on about ever1s rods from Paynes to Youngs to Leonards. I wouldassumethat it has something to do with the flexing(or non-flexing at the ferrulestation.)Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 4 19:47:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: dumb question???? Does anyone have a phone # for Ron Barch as he owes me a rod tube and Iwassupposed to call him to make arrangements to meet with him to pick it up.Bret from ghinde@inconnect.com Sun Jan 4 19:54:11 1998 (may be forged)) 0000 Subject: Re: Wanted: Granger Jasper Silk Does it have to be silk? I have a few spools of Gudebrod size A orange &black. It matches the Granger Jasper in color, but it is nylon -not silk.I have used it for repair s on Wright McGills.If you are interested reach me at ghinde@inconnect.com George----------From: Canerods Subject: Re: Wanted: Granger Jasper SilkDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 1:25 PM In a message dated 98-01-03 18:09:07 EST, you write: Date: 98-01-03 18:09:07 ESTFrom: brewer@teleport.com (Randy Brewer )Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Last year, Bob Corsetti had some spools (900 yards or so) of 00 Granger orange jasper silk thread. I should have bought one then, but, well you know... If anyone has a spare spool (orange or b&w) and is willing to sell, please reply. Thanks, Randy Brewer >> Randy, Good luck! I'm still looking for the red/black jasper that I should've bought too. Belvoirdale's remaining stock of Elephant red/black isn't the same -don'tknow about their blk/orange. I do have a single spool of W&M Gragerblk/orangeand would swap for equal amount of the W&M red/blk. Won't sell it for Lor M(love or money ) Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 4 19:58:09 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Wanted: Granger Jasper Silk I have a friend in Pheonix that I will be writing to this weekwho deals inoldfishing tackle and he always has differnt threads for sale I will ask himtosend me a list of what he has to date.BretP.S. It will be very expensive so be forwarned as he never gives anythingaway. from jfoster@gte.net Sun Jan 4 20:02:28 1998 Subject: contact info? mac-creator="4D4F5353" Does anyone know what happened to Bob Summers WEB page? JWF from ghinde@inconnect.com Sun Jan 4 20:10:30 1998 be forged)) 0000 Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wraps If you look in Garrison's book(the chapter on wrapping the guides) you willfind he wraped the the ferrule with 2 segments so that when the varnishcracked the silk did not break as well. Its been a while since I read thechapter, but I think he said something to the effect that the varnish crackat the ferrule is to be expected. Has something to do with bamboo flexingmore than metal even when the metal is feathered out at the edge. ----------From: Grhghlndr Subject: Re: Finishing ferrule wrapsDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 6:38 PM In regards to the cracking of the finish at the ferrule I have seen andcastmany rods thru the 31 years I have been addicted to this hobby and I haveseenthis on about ever1s rods from Paynes to Youngs to Leonards. I wouldassumethat it has something to do with the flexing(or non-flexing at theferrulestation.)Bret from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Sun Jan 4 20:16:00 1998 Subject: Re: contact info? his old one was up with "The Classic Angler", but now all the rodmakerspages they had are gone......he has his own page at:http://www.gtii.com/summersrods/ which, last i checked, is up andrunningfine...... At 08:01 PM 1/4/98 +0000, you wrote:Does anyone know what happened to Bob Summers WEB page? JWF Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 4 20:47:28 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA23443 for; Sun, 4 Jan 1998 20:51:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Mail working again. Thanks - No message. Rick Mail is on again. Unsubscribed then re-subscribed. Works great. Thanksto all. Rick. from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Sun Jan 4 20:49:39 1998 Subject: Reel plans & comments on lathe book Terry, Would you please send me also, a copy of the "Machining Your Fishing Reel"article. Paul Whitely13102 Dean StreetTustin, CA 92780 I will be more than happy to pay all costs. Thanks From: Terry Paulsen Subject: Reel plans & comments on lathe bookDate: Monday, December 22, 1997 3:48 PM If you are looking for plans for a basic fly reel there is an article inthe January 1951 issue of Mechanix Illustrated titled "Machine YourFishingReel" starting on page 141. If you library does not have the boundvolumes I have a copy and will copy it. It would probably not post to the web verywellthough.The Book How to Run a Lathe by the South bend Lathe Co. is an excellentstarter book. It is the first book I got after I acquired my lathe, and it isthefirst reference I go to when I have a question. Have a merry Christmas all. sincerely Terry Paulsen from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Sun Jan 4 21:14:37 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 107 Subject: Rain Beau Fly Line I am looking for a spool of "Rain Beau" brand fly line it the originalpackage..esp the plastic spool it was wound on. If you can help me,email me off the list. Thanks, everyone, for taking up list space withthis somewhat nonbamboo request. Jim Kubichek from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Jan 4 21:27:41 1998 Subject: Re: dumb question???? Ron's # is 616-945-2329 from mrj@seanet.com Sun Jan 4 21:46:44 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.5/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA06928 for Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod You added .010 of an inch to each spline? Is that correct? I guess you knownow that that is way way too much. I plane down to about .010 oversizeandthan just flatten the rind side with my plane.Then finish planing down tosize. My measurements flat to flat are still sometimes a bit large thoughnot too much. This is probably the glue adding in some thickness.----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod ----------Tony It seems like I'm never going to find out, how this particular rod work.Unwrapped and scraped it this afternoon, and the bl.... thing was too thickall over, some 0,013 inches. Since I don't go for sanding down blanks, I'lljust have to start all over again. Being a mere mortal these thingshappen,though, but I still feel stupid. The fault I made was in adding 0,01 inch to each split i order tocompensate for the final scraping away of the hard layer on the outside.(forgot the exact word). Checking the Archives I guess I should haveaddedjust 0,003 per split. Should have made some notes, since I obviously can'ttrust my memory. Tony, I'd like your, and anybody else's, comments on this: I usually do notscrape away the hard, outer layer (still can't remember the right word)until after glueing. I have heard of scraping away this layer before thefinal planing of the splits, in order to have better control with the finaldimensions of the splits. Best regards Carsten from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jan 4 22:43:31 1998 Mon, 5 Jan 1998 12:43:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod wugate.wustl.edu id WAA13186 On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: Tony Ive got my rep in the family to consider. I'm supposed to be the masterofthe household so I am supposed to excel in male hobbies likerodbuilding,dishwashing and general tidying up. :-) No one ever heard of a 7ft. #8, so I guess that blank will fade away in acorner. Should anyone ever ask, I'll just call it a planing exercise. Still would value your opinion of pros and cons re. removing enamelbeforeor after gluing. Best regards Carsten Carsten,it may well be that the rod could cast ok, and I was only guessing it to #8.Since you aren't too concerned about the rod now, you may as well fit the ferrules and tape guides on and try casting it and see what it's like. You may have made a pretty decent rod and not know it.Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jan 5 00:19:06 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info Denny, Grindstone has a copy of the "Best of the Planing Form" I've got afairly complete collection of most of the important rod making books ifyouwant to borrow one. Wayne Cattenach's book is probably the best moderntext on the subject. I also have Digger"s and Garrisons videos. ----------From: denny@interlynx.net Subject: Bamboo Rod Building InfoDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 8:35 PM I am a new comer to bamboo rod building and am looking for books andvideos on the subject. I have the Garrison and Carmicheal book and the Kreiderbook. I am now looking to get my hands the "Best of the Planing Form" and"Handcrafting the Bamboo Fly Rod".Any suggestions on where to lay my hands on these would be veryhelpful. I am also trying to find videos on the same topic, again any suggestions?Yours truly,Eager to Learn and Get Started....Denny from DEMARALON@aol.com Mon Jan 5 06:40:26 1998 Subject: Re: books and videos Anglers Art, P. O. Box 148N, Plainfield, PA 17081 - 800 848-1020.Harold Demarest, Charles H. Demarest, Inc. from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Mon Jan 5 07:40:08 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: Caneotine tests (fungal infected vs. non-fungal infected) were conducted "blind,"i.e. did the tester know in advance which type of cane he/she was testing?Jerry Snidere-mail: jerry.snider@uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jan 5 08:05:21 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info denny@interlynx.net wrote: I am a new comer to bamboo rod building and am looking for books andvideos onthe subject. I have the Garrison and Carmicheal book and the Kreiderbook. Iam now looking to get my hands the "Best of the Planing Form" and"Handcraftingthe Bamboo Fly Rod".Any suggestions on where to lay my hands on these would be veryhelpful. I amalso trying to find videos on the same topic, again any suggestions?Yours truly,Eager to Learn and Get Started....Denny Denny,Cabela's carries Wayne Cattanach's book and video. IMHO, those twoarethe very best way to get started. And Cabela's usually delivers inquite a hurry.Harry Boyd from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 5 09:05:09 1998 Mon, 5 Jan 1998 23:04:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Phillipson Smuggler Somebody droped in on me today a Phillipson Smuggler needing some cork work as well as a new tip.Does anybody out there have the taper of the tip?I believe there weren't too many of these rods made, but I'll give the few details on the rod. 4 piece, 7' - 8", green annodised Al down screw reel seat. It's in very good condition. Anybody have a comment on how these rods rate? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Jan 5 09:41:52 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info Cabelas new rod building catalog has the Best of Planing Form. Justordered mine. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ps. Steve, I will get you MSC number. They are also on the rodmakerspage. (May be MRC, I can't remember.) ----------From: ted john knott Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building InfoDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 10:03 PM Denny, Grindstone has a copy of the "Best of the Planing Form" I've gotafairly complete collection of most of the important rod making books ifyouwant to borrow one. Wayne Cattenach's book is probably the best moderntext on the subject. I also have Digger"s and Garrisons videos. ----------From: denny@interlynx.net Subject: Bamboo Rod Building InfoDate: Sunday, January 04, 1998 8:35 PM I am a new comer to bamboo rod building and am looking for books andvideos on the subject. I have the Garrison and Carmicheal book and the Kreiderbook. I am now looking to get my hands the "Best of the Planing Form" and"Handcrafting the Bamboo Fly Rod".Any suggestions on where to lay my hands on these would be veryhelpful. I am also trying to find videos on the same topic, again any suggestions?Yours truly,Eager to Learn and Get Started....Denny from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Jan 5 09:44:44 1998 Subject: Re: Dropped from listserve? Most likely you were kicked off, this happens from time to time, youshouldresubscibe in the same way, the listserver wil send you confirmation. JB At 06:15 AM 12/18/97 EST, you wrote:Jerry, I havn't recieved any mailfor two days. Did i get cut off the listor is it meybe a problem with AOL?Thanks Ken Gaucher from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Jan 5 10:10:48 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 200 Brad, I have this rod (original Payne) let ne know if you still need info. JBAt 07:20 PM 1/3/98 EST, you wrote:I was interested in building Payne's 200 4 wt 3 pc. rod. However, there isnolisting with the taper as to the size of the ferrules. Does anyone knowwhatthe ferrule sizes would be? Moreover, what is the line weight for thePaulYoung Para 15 and ferrule size for that rod? Thanks,Brad from jfoster@gte.net Mon Jan 5 14:07:55 1998 Subject: Re: Dropped from listserve? mac-creator="4D4F5353" James ,everyone before you re-subscreibe send this message to the listproc SET RODMAKERS MAIL ACK you should receive a response within a few minutes. jwf PS why don't you send your Payne info anyway and I'll fix the web page from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jan 5 14:10:33 1998 Subject: Removal of enamel side power fibers? The recent threads on the oversize blank and tuning rodsprompted me to write in and recount some of the thingsI've been coming across in the last few weeks. Quite a while ago, a cane rod dealer looked at my rods, and among other things, he mentioned that going deeperinto the power fibers would improve the appearanceof the rod a lot. I said that the power fibers should be preserved over just improving the appearance, and hisreply was I would be surprised to find out how much ofthe outside of a rod the major manufacturers such as Orvis and Winston take off. With this in mind, last weekI took a 10x loupe to a local flyfishing store that hasOrvis, Winston, and T&T cane rods and looked at themvery closely. Of course it is difficult to tell exactly howmuch is removed, but if you see a lot of power fibers taper out and end on the flats, that is an indication that at least a good bit of the enamel side has been removed. There does seem to be a lot of the enamel side removed.I saw no trace of any surface enamel left anywhere atall, and one rod I could see 10 power fibers end in an8 inch section. This would also explain how they get such evenly colored cane. If you scrape deep enough you can get past the watermarks and surface blemishes. Anybody willing to give an opinion on how much of the powerfibers can be removed without affecting performance, or affecting performance minimally? Darryl Hayashida from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon Jan 5 14:17:22 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info i tried ordering the videos from Cabela's a few days ago and they're out ofstock....getting another shipment in sometime this month, but the guy italked to didn't know when....i just got a new "Angler's Art" flyer in themail today and they have the videos listed in there so i'll probably cancelthe order from Cabela's and order from AA....anyway the price is the samein both catalogs, but AA's shipping price is like $5 cheaper........just athought in case you want the videos immediatly......... Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Mon Jan 5 14:33:29 1998 (AST) 5 Jan 98 15:37:49 -0500 0500 ESMTP;5 Jan 98 15:37:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info How does one get on the Angler's art mailing list do you have a way ofcontacting them either on the net or by snail mail or phone number??Thanks John McKinnonOttawa, OntarioMatt Leiderman wrote: i tried ordering the videos from Cabela's a few days ago and they'reout ofstock....getting another shipment in sometime this month, but the guyitalked to didn't know when....i just got a new "Angler's Art" flyer inthemail today and they have the videos listed in there so i'll probablycancelthe order from Cabela's and order from AA....anyway the price is thesamein both catalogs, but AA's shipping price is like $5cheaper........just athought in case you want the videos immediatly......... Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon Jan 5 14:43:26 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info i guess just call them and ask to be put on their mailing list......theydon't have a site (that i know of)....their phone # is1-800-848-1020....but since it appears you're out of the US you have tocall 717-243-9721.....to be honest, i don't know how i got on theirlist....just started getting stuff from them...... Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Mon Jan 5 14:45:08 1998 (AST) 5 Jan 98 15:49:37 -0500 0500 ESMTP;5 Jan 98 15:48:53 -0500 Subject: anglers art How does one get in touch with them to get on their list? from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Jan 5 15:23:50 1998 Subject: Re: anglers art -----Original Message----- Subject: anglers art How does one get in touch with them to get on their list? Mr Demarest - around 7:30 this morning gave No. for Barry Servienti - Anglers Art: (800) 848 1020 - book dealer - is there another Anglers Art? Ted G. from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Jan 5 16:22:40 1998 Subject: Study in Patience Have my forms drilled, bolted, set screwed, planed flat on both sidesand the gap set ready to scrape with 60* lathe tool, only to find thatthe tool I received from Enco hits somewhere around 82*. New tool is coming next Monday. Another week to wait. I keep reciting,"Patience is the only virtue that is self rewarding". Still waiting forthe November cane from Demarest. "Patience is the only virtue that isself rewarding". I am anxious to get started and get some of the firstmistakes out of the way, to start scaling the learning curve in a mannerof speaking. "Patience is the only virtue that is self rewarding". I am anxious to start using some of the information that I printed fromthe archives and from current material on the list. If it had a titleit could qualify as a rod building tome in its own right. "Patience isthe only virtue that is self rewarding" Regards, StevePatient in Independence from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jan 5 16:44:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info What is Anglers art phone # please from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Jan 5 17:10:30 1998 Subject: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod TSmithwick wrote: Under no circumstances should you ever admit to making a mistake toanyoneother than another rodmaker, as your reputation will be ruined.Remember, allyour rods are instruments fit for the gods, just like all of mine :-). There are really no mistakes, only experiments and learning experiences! from DEMARALON@aol.com Mon Jan 5 17:19:26 1998 Subject: Re: Study in Patience Your patience, Steve, is not only very much appreciated but is to berewardedshortly. Our container of 1-3/4-2" reached New York just today and yourorderwill be shipped as soon as possible after clearing customs and reachingthewarehouse. We have made arrangements so this situation will not occur again. All the best in your rodmaking. Harold Demarest from DEMARALON@aol.com Mon Jan 5 17:27:34 1998 Subject: Re: anglers art Ted,Don't quite understand your message. I have just tried several times andfindthe 800 number (848-1020) busy - and it is 6:00PM in Pennsylvania. Perhapsyou might fax them at 717 243-8603. I can't find an e-mail address . Theirmailing address if P. O. Box 148, Plainfield, PA 17081. Hope this will beofhelp to you. Tried the number again and reached Barry. Good luck! Harold Demarest from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jan 5 17:32:43 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info John, there is a Rod builder's Gatherring in Fergus, Ontario, may 23 and24, 1998, on the banks of the fabulous Grand River. Check out our web site(under construction) at http://www.pathcom.com/~blades/ for more info. ----------From: John McKinnon Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building InfoDate: Monday, January 05, 1998 9:37 AM How does one get on the Angler's art mailing list do you have a way ofcontacting them either on the net or by snail mail or phone number??Thanks John McKinnonOttawa, OntarioMatt Leiderman wrote: i tried ordering the videos from Cabela's a few days ago and they'reout ofstock....getting another shipment in sometime this month, but the guyitalked to didn't know when....i just got a new "Angler's Art" flyer inthemail today and they have the videos listed in there so i'll probablycancelthe order from Cabela's and order from AA....anyway the price is thesamein both catalogs, but AA's shipping price is like $5cheaper........just athought in case you want the videos immediatly......... Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net from DEMARALON@aol.com Mon Jan 5 17:45:03 1998 Subject: Re: anglers art Try 1 800 848-1020 - and ask about the upcoming Somerset NJ show. Harold Demarest from DEMARALON@aol.com Mon Jan 5 17:45:19 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info Anglers Art telephone number is 1 800 848-1020 and I found BarryServientethere at 6:00PM preparing for the upcoming show at Somerset, NJ -Friday,Saturday, Sunday, January 23, 24 and 25. Great show! See you there! Harold and Eileen Demarest from DEMARALON@aol.com Mon Jan 5 18:00:30 1998 Subject: Tonkin Cane Arrival To all you wonderfully patient rodmakers, Harold and Eileen Demarest sayavery large "Thank you." The first container of 1-3/4-2" Tonkin arrived inNewYork today and after clearing customs and getting the material to warehouse we expect to be shipping within the next week. We don't have a firm shipping date as yet on the 2-2-1/2" but believe itwillbe heresome time in February. Will keep you posted. Harold and Eileen Demarest Please don't forget. Our area code has changed. Telephone is 973 492- 1414;Fax is 973 838-6538. e-mail remains Demaralon@aol.com. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 5 19:04:56 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: The Caneotine Jon ,The "tine" part is the end of guillotine.Hank. from wfmack@evansville.net Mon Jan 5 19:56:30 1998 via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) ()(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: New tempering oven design- best way to post? mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu wrote: I have waded into bamboo rodmaking as I seem to be strongly drawntothis art. Don't ask me why but I'm having fun. I read all of thearchives (whew!), have Wayne's book and tapes (great resource,Wayne;you have my thanks) and am fairly well on the way to getting thesteelforms and other necessary tools made (thanks and a big tip of the hatto Thomas Penrose for his very detailed and extremely helpfulwebpageon steel form construction).My only regret has been that as a newbie I have little or nothingto contribute in return for the terrific information sources provided a tempering oven I came up with which is based on information I haveabsorbed from the various rodmaking resources.The construction is very simple. I built it for $45 (not includingthe cost of the heat gun and I had some scrap lumber and fiberglassinsulation around; so it probably costs about $65 to make). It seemsto have very even heating thoughout. The measured temperaturegradient(tested at 364 degrees F; a randomly chosen temp in the range ofbamboo tempering) was zero. This was measured at both ends and themiddle of the tempering chamber which all registered exactly 364degrees in this test using a good quality candy thermometer.It is a forced air design which uses a heat gun like the bamboobazooka described in the Planing Form. However, I think it has someadvantages (at least theoretical) over that design and would be ofvalue to other beginners like myself. My question at this time is.... What is the best way to post thisdescription. The description and construction instructions aresomewhat long, also there is a schematic diagram which will not gointo email and would have to be an attachment or rendered as ASCIIart(yuck!). I don't have a webpage to post it on. Can anyone give me anypointers (?) as I don't want to clog up the list unless that is thebest way.Thanks.Jon McAnultyJon--I'd be interested in it, either via email or over the list. Thanks. I'm sure others would too. Bill Mack wfmack@evansville.net from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Jan 5 20:30:52 1998 Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Has anyone received a copy? Does anyone have any information? I sawwhere their first issue is a January-February issue. Has anyonereceived a billing notice from them or anything? TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from WDHCJL@aol.com Mon Jan 5 20:40:15 1998 Subject: Re: Linking In a message dated 98-01-04 01:17:46 EST, you write: Thanks for asking Jerry, I was thinking it would be a great idea. As a sidenote, the better half gave me one of jimmy's reel case's for X- mas,handcarved, dyed, lined with sheepskin ....amazing work!!! Try: www.turtlemoon.comIt is a site for he and his wife (they are both artist).doug hall from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Mon Jan 5 20:41:57 1998 8.7/8.7) id VAA29764 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Nothing at this end. I do remember filling out the email-type form aboutamonth ago.Has anyone received a copy? Does anyone have any information? I sawwhere their first issue is a January-February issue. Has anyonereceived a billing notice from them or anything? TIA. from DEMARALON@aol.com Mon Jan 5 20:44:53 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info John,Anglers Art can be reached (a) telephone 1 800-848-1020' Fax 717243-8603. Snail Mail is P. O. Box 148N, Plainfield. PA 17081Harold Demarest. Charles H.Demarest. Inc. from gwr@seanet.com Mon Jan 5 20:49:48 1998 SAA28286 for ; Mon, 5 Jan 1998 18:49:45 - Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Steve,I subscribed via their web site nearly two months ago it seems, buthave received neither a bill nor a first issue. Several weeks ago I spokewith the editor regarding advertising. He was going to email me a ratesheet the following day. I never heard back. If anyone else has moresubstantive information, I'd also be interested in learning what you know. Russ At 08:31 PM 1/5/98 -0800, you wrote:Has anyone received a copy? Does anyone have any information? I sawwhere their first issue is a January- February issue. Has anyonereceived a billing notice from them or anything? TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jan 5 21:31:39 1998Received: from Subject: Re: Re: anglers art As soon as I got the # for Anglers Art off here I called and got bust signal4times but I got thru on 5th time. You must practice patience when tryingtoget thru to people in business because they are unindated with calls allday. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jan 5 21:40:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info Where is Fergus Ontario in relation to Windsor? from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 5 21:45:17 1998 Subject: Re: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Right on!Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 5 21:50:06 1998 Subject: Re: Removal of enamel side power fibers? Sir D,It depends on the depth and uniformity of the power fibers in each culmandhow thick your strips are-I generally wing it-so far no discernable illaffects.Sorry for the imprecision but this farm boy eye balls it and makes a S.WA.G. otherwise known as a simple wild ass guess and hopes he hasn't addedtoomuch salt to the stew.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 5 22:54:29 1998 Subject: Re: More Resolution Bill,It seems to me if you don't beef up the taper at the ferrule you get aCattanach hinge-maybe that's why some of my rods roll cast so well eventhestraight tapers? Hank. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jan 5 22:54:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Please can someone give me the website for this bamboo magazine? Thanks.Bret from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jan 5 23:21:56 1998 Subject: Re: Caneotine Jerry -The test were not conducted in a 'blind' manner - we knew what weweretesting - but I think it was done in a fair and reasonably precise manner. -As I noted they are initial and the results were posted to prompt others todosimilar testing. I have just finished writing a project description offurtherdefining the tests and the inclusion of the many 'collector' samples ofbamboothat I have. The samples I have include many pre embargo pieces fromYoung,Dickerson, Leonard, Herters as well as samples of many shipments thatdateback some 15 years and I even have a prime sample of some tonkin thatdidn'tcome from China. So far in visual examination no other samples show thegrayveining that was talked of earlier.Then - even with testing - and good or bad results - what does aweakertest result show ? - Will the rod break at fighting a 3# fish instead offighting a 5# fish ? will time be a factor - is the expected life shortenedwith the head start in breakdown. All arguable points that won't beanswered listmakes the decision of how they want to use it or follow up on the start ofsomething. from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Jan 5 23:21:57 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Regarding the magazine, I received an email confirmation that theyreceived myrequest for a subscription. The first time I emailed the subscriptioninformation, I didn't get a response. After trying again a few weeks later,the confirmation was received the next day. Kurt Loup from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 5 23:30:15 1998 Subject: Re: Re: __8__#6_dryfly_rod Tom and Carsten,I'm finding if the culm has deep power fibers and no discernablevariation in density through the planed strip planing the outer fibers doesnot seem to hurt the rod (I know this is heresy ). Of course you losecontinuity of fibers the length of the rod but if you have nodes you've lostcontinuity anyway.Just my $.01Hank. from jfoster@gte.net Mon Jan 5 23:31:21 1998 Subject: Re: Linking mac-creator="4D4F5353" ThamksDoug thats the one jerry from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 6 00:35:56 1998 Subject: Planing away power fibers In a message dated 98-01-06 00:36:42 EST, you write: I'm finding if the culm has deep power fibers and no discernablevariation in density through the planed strip planing the outer fibersdoesnot seem to hurt the rod (I know this is heresy ). Of course you losecontinuity of fibers the length of the rod but if you have nodes you'velostcontinuity anyway. That's my feeling also. I think for most culms, given good depth of power fibers, the enamel side can be planed or scraped away to a fairly deep depth. Past most water marks and surface blemishes, which would leaveus with very nice evenly colored bamboo rods. I'm beginning to believethis is why Orvis and Winston have such cosmetically perfect bambooin their rods. Darryl Hayashida from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Jan 6 06:22:49 1998 Subject: Final fitting of ferrules havethe male slightly oversized, what is the best way to remove material fromthemale so that it fits? I have been using crocus cloth and metal polish.Thanks. --Rich from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Tue Jan 6 07:16:53 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Caneotine testing Wayne, excellent response--and testing pre-embargo cane is a superb idea!Another suggestion (since I am not doing any of the work!) how muchvariation occurs within a SINGLE culm of bamboo? It would seem somekind ofhandle on variation (if present) would be valuable. what address should I send the check? :>)Trout Grouche-mail: jerry.snider@uc.edu from cgriffin@selway.umt.edu Tue Jan 6 08:34:49 1998 07:34:45 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I subscribed to Bamboo FlyRod magazine, but haven't got a bill, nor a copy. Cary GriffinMissoula, MT -----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Has anyone received a copy? Does anyone have any information? I sawwhere their first issue is a January-February issue. Has anyonereceived a billing notice from them or anything? TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Jan 6 08:41:42 1998 Subject: Re: Final fitting of ferrules Rich;Get a lapping file from Bailey Wood. He has an order coming in soon.802-525-3623 from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Tue Jan 6 08:45:25 1998 09:44:54 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: New tempering oven design- best way to post? Bill,I have sent the text and diagrams to Jerry Foster and he is going to post them on the Rodmakers webpage. When it is up we can post a message. Cheers.Jon from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Tue Jan 6 09:45:36 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 255 Subject: Bamboo Rod Durability Survey Opportunity Well listers, here is an opportunity to get the word out if you wish.On the virtual Flyfishing site:http://www.flyshop.com/Bulletin/index.htmlthey are asking for info from people who actually own and fish bamboorods. See the post listed under "Bamboo rod durability survey". Shouldbe interesting results. Jim Kubichek from teekay35@interlynx.net Tue Jan 6 13:32:24 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building Info Fergus is about a half hour north of Hwy #401 on Hwy #6, andapproximately2 1/2 hours driving time. ----------From: Grhghlndr Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Building InfoDate: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:07 PM Where is Fergus Ontario in relation to Windsor? from bjcoch@arkansas.net Tue Jan 6 14:34:23 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id UAA28586 for; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 20:52:53 GMT Subject: Re: Removal of enamel side power fibers? SalarFly wrote: Quite a while ago, a cane rod dealer looked at my rods,and among other things, he mentioned that going deeperinto the power fibers would improve the appearanceof the rod a lot. I said that the power fibers should bepreserved over just improving the appearance, and hisreply was I would be surprised to find out how much ofthe outside of a rod the major manufacturers such asOrvis and Winston take off. if you see a lot of power fiberstaper out and end on the flats, that is an indication thatat least a good bit of the enamel side has been removed.I saw no trace of any surface enamel left anywhere atall, and one rod I could see 10 power fibers end in an8 inch section.Anybody willing to give an opinion on how much of the powerfibers can be removed without affecting performance, oraffecting performance minimally? Darryl Hayashida I have built a couple of rods where I left the strips .010 over sized,after glue up I filed the flats to the finished dimensions. This removedall of the enamel and made the rod come out with a very even coloration( I had flamed the green culm haves and then oven dried the finishedstrips). The result is a rod that looks like my old winston (40's) and ahigh-end montique that I learned how to fish with when I was a child. Iwould guesstimate I removed around 0.011 of the enamel side on eachsegment. I have landed 5-10 pound trout and a few salmon in the 20-30pound range with these rods and they still perform like they were brandnew. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Jan 6 17:51:56 1998 Subject: test 123 Just a test 123 from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 6 18:08:40 1998 Subject: Planning a rodmaking class - Suggestions? I'm not much of a joiner, but after two years of occasionallyattending the Long Beach Casting Club (Calif.), I finallybecame a member. I traded one of my earlier rods (No. 5) like to do is give a class on bamboo rod making. The LBCChas a clubhouse and a casting pond. The clubhouse hasenough room to accommodate probably 4 to 6 students I would like some input from those that have taken or givenclasses before. Things you liked, things you didn't like, thingsI should or shouldn't do, and do you have suggestions for making a bamboo rodmaking class better? Darryl Hayashida from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Jan 6 18:44:54 1998 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA052413733; Tue, 6 Jan 1998 16:42:13 -0800 Subject: RE: Planning a rodmaking class - Suggestions? Daryl, I have one suggestion that will facilitate the class for you as well as the students. Provide some step by step reading material or photo essay prior to the start of the course. Request that the students read the material and become familiar with the tools and steps of building a rod. This will save time explaining the things we might assume are "obvious" and willalso prevent a student from avoiding a question during the class because they feel they should already have this basic knowledge, which usually results in someone doing some step but not really understanding why they aredoing it. I think it is easier to learn with a foundation to build on. I noticed many of the rodmakers on this list seem to read books on the subject and collect some supplies before embarking, or they begin by refinishing rods then migrating to building them. I think this is a good way to enter in. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Jan 6 18:57:35 1998 Subject: Pre-embargo Cane I don't know where the myth began, but somehow it did. Pre-embargocane istheBEST. What bullshit. Tonkin cane has been growing in the same location,inthesame soil,under the same wheather conditions for centuries.I've had canefromthe30's and 40's as well as current shipments.It's the same shit.The onlydifferencebeing pre-selection and grading procedures.Cut any culm ~1/2 " back fromanodeand you'll find the power fibers are about double thick. This is a carnivaltrick some people pull off to show you Pre-embargo is "Better". Todaymanygrowers are harvesting every three years rather than 5 years.This DOESmake adifference,but bottom line is Tonkin is Tonkin., from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Jan 6 19:21:07 1998 Subject: Re: Planning a rodmaking class - Suggestions? Daryll;Call me. DrBamboo@aol.com from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Jan 6 19:50:52 1998 Subject: Snakemaker -------- Thanks Dave, I got the snake maker yesterday, and I am impressed. Istherea possibility of using NS wire in it? Sorry to post to list, but I don't have your email address handy. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu -- from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Jan 6 22:13:45 1998 Subject: Re: Pre-embargo Cane I had the occasion to ask Bill Waara about bamboo as he has been buildingrods since the forties or earlier. He claims that todays bamboo is sosuperior that it isn't even close. After all it is only a grass and now thebuyers have educated the Chinese as to exactly what they want. I imaginethat at the heyday of cane rod mass production, there was some reallypoorcane used by some makers. Happy New Year. JB spAt 19:18 06/01/98 EST, you wrote:I don't know where the myth began, but somehow it did. Pre-embargocane istheBEST. What bullshit. Tonkin cane has been growing in the same location,inthesame soil,under the same wheather conditions for centuries.I've had canefromthe30's and 40's as well as current shipments.It's the same shit.The onlydifferencebeing pre- selection and grading procedures.Cut any culm ~1/2 " back fromanodeand you'll find the power fibers are about double thick. This is a carnivaltrick some people pull off to show you Pre-embargo is "Better". Todaymanygrowers are harvesting every three years rather than 5 years.This DOESmake adifference,but bottom line is Tonkin is Tonkin., James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Jan 6 22:20:31 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts -----Original Message----- Dear Gregdiminishing grits of a Micro-Mesh kit, from 1800 to about12000. Davy, If you please, I'm not familiar with the "Micro-mesh kit", where might Ifind it - perhaps by mail? Thanks, Ted G. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Jan 6 22:22:29 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA28637 +0000 Subject: Re: Planing away power fibers You've definitely lost continuity of the power fibers (too) if you buildnodeless. George Bourke ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Planing away power fibersDate: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:30 PM In a message dated 98-01-06 00:36:42 EST, you write: I'm finding if the culm has deep power fibers and no discernablevariation in density through the planed strip planing the outer fibersdoesnot seem to hurt the rod (I know this is heresy ). Of course you losecontinuity of fibers the length of the rod but if you have nodesyou'velostcontinuity anyway. That's my feeling also. I think for most culms, given good depth of power fibers, the enamel side can be planed or scraped away to a fairly deep depth. Past most water marks and surface blemishes, which would leaveus with very nice evenly colored bamboo rods. I'm beginning to believethis is why Orvis and Winston have such cosmetically perfect bambooin their rods. Darryl Hayashida from SealRite@aol.com Tue Jan 6 23:03:37 1998 Subject: Hand Made planes If any one is interested, there is an article in the October 97 edition ofFine WoodWorking on building hand made wood planes. It also contains arealgood article on the use of ammonia for fuming wood. For real fanatics,thereis also an article in the September 93 edition of ShopNotes on building asmaller wood block plane. The sole of the wood planes are easy to modify, and an osage orange solewilllast a long time. Working with the wood planes adds a little more to thecraft and is more in harmony with the cane. from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jan 6 23:12:43 1998 Subject: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Group,Tom Thanks for Minoru's addr. he sent me his taper list again, I'll post itas soon as i catch up with my node smashing (sorry Chris) My mail server has been acting squirrely so i downloaded the archiveprematurely and found it so interesting,,, i pre-posted it. along those lines.. how about a canetine test on quad and pentstrips..(dare i say no knots)since each culm seems to be so variant, do i have to test a strip fromeach stick? how about you guys come up with a standard test for a completed section,each using there own adhesive, finish, and heating technique, etc. thatought to accumulate into quite a body of knowledge, over time.Sort of like a standard benchmark, like the makers rod? jwf from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Tue Jan 6 23:51:43 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmakers list stats Hello folks! I received the following note from list member David Rogers, andsince others might be interested, I am replying to everyone. David seez... What's the chance of getting some list stats like how many subscribersand to what ends of the earth does the list extend? I would believethat all the subscribers would be interested in this information. Unfortunately there is only a limited amount of stats availableabout the list. The most useful is the subscriber list. It listsall the subscribers and their email addresses. You can some ideaof where folks are located by looking at the email addresses.Especially so, the international folks. You can also get somestats about how many posts each members has made. That's prettymuch the extent of it though. listproc@mail.wustl.edu In the body of the message: review rodmakersstatistics rodmakers -all The "review" command will get you a list of all the currentsubscribers. The "statistics" command will get you a listof how many posts have been made by each email address. You can definitely tell who the big mouths are!!! Enjoy... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jan 7 00:23:24 1998 Wed, 7 Jan 1998 14:23:11 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Rodmakers list stats The list guy seez: I received the following note from list member David Rogers, andsince others might be interested, I am replying to everyone. David seez... What's the chance of getting some list stats like how many subscribersand to what ends of the earth does the list extend? I would believethat all the subscribers would be interested in this information. The "review" command will get you a list of all the currentsubscribers. The "statistics" command will get you a listof how many posts have been made by each email address. You can definitely tell who the big mouths are!!! Enjoy... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy Well, there's at least one big mouth from the Antipodes :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from danno@gowebway.com Wed Jan 7 02:19:49 1998 ; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 00:14:12 -0800 Subject: Re: Rodmakers list stats I polled the listproc. This should flush out a lurker or two (besides me!). Ah, so there are a few people besides me that are lurking out here. If theother lurkers are also like me, we are (or have) collecting(ed) theappropriate tools to begin practicing the craft when ... the time becomesavailable for doing so. Our patience will prevail. In the mean time, I have learned quite a fewtips that will make my first efforts somewhat easier. At least I knowwhoto ask for advice. Thanks for that. Regards, Dan Listguy wrote: listproc@mail.wustl.edu In the body of the message: review rodmakersstatistics rodmakers -all from channer@frontier.net Wed Jan 7 06:50:24 1998 Subject: get together If there are any subscribers out there in the Durango, Co. area drop me ane- mail off list and we'll get together, trade notes, go fishing ,whatever. from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Jan 7 10:16:26 1998 SVR4) Subject: NS source Can anyone suggest a source of nickel silver stock? I want to turn my own ferrules on a lathe. Thanks. from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jan 7 10:29:27 1998 Subject: Re: NS source mac-creator="4D4F5353" Sometimes I don't know why I do this ThomasIt's posted in the archives under suppliesDavid LeClair 's Fly and RodRoomP.O Box 565 Bonta LaneElbridge ,New York 13060(315)689-7896 Call in the evening jwf from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Jan 7 10:54:37 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: NS source Thanks, Jerry, and sorry. I usually think to look there first!---------- Subject: Re: NS source Sometimes I don't know why I do this ThomasIt's posted in the archives under suppliesDavid LeClair 's Fly and RodRoomP.O Box 565 Bonta LaneElbridge ,New York 13060(315)689-7896 Call in the evening jwf from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Wed Jan 7 11:27:14 1998 V2R3)with BSMTP id 1959; Wed, 07 Jan 98 12:26:11 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 1264; Wed, 7 Jan1998 12:26:12 -0500Subject: Ordering cane Would anyone in the Maine area like to split an order of large size culms(ie., 2in, and 20 culms total) from Demarest? Please contact off list. B. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Jan 7 12:53:11 1998 Subject: Antique Angling Show - Mass Listers, Anyone know how to contact Lang (207 655 4265 - just ans. machine) orTonyFlynn regards auctions/shows, March 98. Thanks for any help, Ted G. from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Jan 7 16:24:35 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Ted Yes, try Woodcrafter's or Woodcraft Supply or someplace like that. I gotminein Bavaria but it's made here. I'll check my catalogs in case you don't findit. It's truly wonderful stuff. It'll shine hardwood to where it almost lookslike glass, and it lasts a long time, too. Cheers,Davy from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jan 7 16:26:35 1998 Subject: Re: NS source mac-creator="4D4F5353" Sorry Tom not aimed at you just had oral surgery, makes me testy regardsjerry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jan 7 16:39:37 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry Foster wrote: Sometimes I don't know why I do this snip from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Jan 7 19:06:35 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: NS source Thanks Jerry. Sorry to hear about the surgery - some river time is called for, no? BTW, Richard Tyree suggested a great source at: http://www.metalmart.com . They have AL, NiAg and all sorts of other metals, though the Nickel Silver is not cheap. Great web site - a canidiate for a link on your page, maybe? Best regards for a speedy recovery, Thomas---------- Subject: Re: NS source Sorry Tom not aimed at you just had oral surgery, makes me testy regardsjerry from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Jan 7 20:08:55 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry, There are so many new people coming by here to look at stuff we'rebound to get redundant questions. After looking through the archives Irealize I haven't asked anything new (or terribly interesting, now thatI think about it). Why is there air? Brian from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jan 7 20:09:03 1998 VAA12975; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:08:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing away power fibers George Not really - I look at this way - you have established continuityof the power fibers - by cuting out those $#@%$#&^&** nodes. Think aboutit! Chris At 08:28 PM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote:You've definitely lost continuity of the power fibers (too) if you buildnodeless. George Bourke ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Planing away power fibersDate: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:30 PM In a message dated 98-01-06 00:36:42 EST, you write: I'm finding if the culm has deep power fibers and no discernablevariation in density through the planed strip planing the outer fibersdoesnot seem to hurt the rod (I know this is heresy ). Of course you losecontinuity of fibers the length of the rod but if you have nodesyou'velostcontinuity anyway. That's my feeling also. I think for most culms, given good depth ofpower fibers, the enamel side can be planed or scraped away to a fairly deep depth. Past most water marks and surface blemishes, which wouldleaveus with very nice evenly colored bamboo rods. I'm beginning to believethis is why Orvis and Winston have such cosmetically perfect bambooin their rods. Darryl Hayashida from FlyfishT@aol.com Wed Jan 7 20:32:38 1998 Subject: Help with form construction I need to know how to build a low cost planing form. I'm just gettingstartedand I just watched the Wayne video and I'm wondering if I can afford thisadventure. I would like to make as much of the equipment as I can. Doesanybody have papers on the planing form construction? wood or metal? DoI needa lathe to turn the rod for the furls? Is there any other way? If not, wouldawood lathe work? Something you could buy used at an auction? Wherewould I buya binder? Tom NFlyfishT from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jan 7 20:36:45 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry, I've got more Snake Makers made up. If I remember right you saidyouwanted one. Let me know Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jan 7 20:38:05 1998 Subject: Re: Snakemaker Robert, Glad you like my little gadget. Yes, you could use n/s wire. Idon't haveany but, if you can get some it should work. My address is LECLAIR123@aol.com Thanks again, Dave from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 7 20:45:38 1998 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Am I a Rodmaker? Am I a rodmaker? I just finished my first. I did it using the nodelessmethod. I felt the splicing would be easier for me than straightening thenodes for the first few. Planing and gluing went well and I am satisfiedoverall with the rod. There are "warts" but I've built other things thatturned out a lot worse. The most difficult task for me was finishing thewraps. I was able to lay the thread down smoothly and fairly easily butgetting the finish I wanted was considerably more difficult than Iexpected. Sometimes what I see in my mind's eye and what I achieve don'tcorrelate. This was the problem with the thread. When I applied thefinish, the thread I had chosen turned completely transparent. It is onething to read about it and another to see it. Off came the thread. Oneguy recommends painting the area under the thread white then winding thethread. I tried it. Didn't like the method or the results so off came thethread. Tried using color restorer and got splotchy results. Off came thethread. I finally settled for a dark red thread with no other preparation.This came out a dark blood red. Looks fine. I don't know how it castsyet. I'll find out later. Hope it is OK. This one goes to my granddaughter. All in all, the tooling up was worse than the rod construction. I wanted aplaning form better than wood but I didn't have a drill press for a steelone so I decided on aluminum; bad choice. The form I built was 1/4" by1.5" aluminum backed by 3/4" by 1.5" maple. I wound up paying more forthematerials than I would have for either steel or wood, putting at least asmuch work in as the steel would have required and got a form little betterthan wood. It is accurate enough but I have a drill press now so I willreplace it with steel this summer sometime. The binder wound up "industrial grade" but it works great so I guess I willkeep it. I built the oven from two different sizes of air-conditioningduct with glass wool for an insulator. I use rigid copper tubing insidethe 6' long oven to place the rods in; helps keep the temperature evenalong the rod. Works well. The rod turner uses a chuck from a worn outdrill and the motor from a BBQ rotor that I bought 15 years ago on specialand haven't used. Cost; one 1 by 6 board. I want to thank everyone who contributes to this list for their veryhelpful discussions and information. With this, Wayne's book and thearchives, this has been a very rewarding experience. The next rod is mine. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Jan 7 20:48:46 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Thomas, E-mail me your mailing address and I will send you my list of N/Stubing and bar stock with prices and specs. Dave LeClairLECLAIR123@aol.com from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jan 7 21:14:29 1998 WAA26728; Wed, 7 Jan 1998 22:14:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing away power fibers George Not really - I look at it this way: You are establishing continuityof the power fibers by getting rid of those #&*%$#% nodes! Think aboutit. Chris At 08:28 PM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote:You've definitely lost continuity of the power fibers (too) if you buildnodeless. George Bourke ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Planing away power fibersDate: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:30 PM In a message dated 98-01-06 00:36:42 EST, you write: I'm finding if the culm has deep power fibers and no discernablevariation in density through the planed strip planing the outer fibersdoesnot seem to hurt the rod (I know this is heresy ). Of course you losecontinuity of fibers the length of the rod but if you have nodesyou'velostcontinuity anyway. That's my feeling also. I think for most culms, given good depth ofpower fibers, the enamel side can be planed or scraped away to a fairly deep depth. Past most water marks and surface blemishes, which wouldleaveus with very nice evenly colored bamboo rods. I'm beginning to believethis is why Orvis and Winston have such cosmetically perfect bambooin their rods. Darryl Hayashida from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Jan 7 21:15:05 1998 Subject: The Bamboo Fly Rod Info I recieved the following that Mark Metcalf asked me to post - heapparently is having difficulty in posting it. Please note that there aretwo #1 To all members of the Rodmakers Listproc; I would like to personallythank all of you who provided so much input, information, advice andcounsel as I have been developing The Bamboo Fly Rod for publication.The first issue is on the way to the printer and should be in the mailstream by January 23, 1998. We are approximately three weeks late due tothe holidays, computor problems, software problems, a virus thatdevoured not only an advertisers zip disk, but our close to final proofas well, my bad back, and all the difficulties of a first time effort.The second issue though, is in fine fettel and will be timely. Also, Ienvision the first year of publication as one of development, feedback,and forming this magazine into a publication that reflects the wants,needs, and desires of the bamboo fly rod community. I can accomplishthis only with the assistance and counsel of those whose passion forthis subject is as intense as mine. Please feel free to contact mepersonally at any time by phone, letter or email with either complimentor constructive criticism. The Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine is for you andwill to the best of my and the staffs ability reflect this. -- Thank you,Mark S. MetcalfEditor - The Bamboo Fly Rod Visit our web site athttp://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ #2 To all members of Listproc; If you do not receive an acknowledgementofyour subscription request by Sunday January 11, 1998, please email youraddress to bam-fly@pacbell.net Our website subscription page has beenmalfunctioning due to a problem with the Geocities server. -- Thank you,Mark S. MetcalfEditor - The Bamboo Fly Rod Visit our web site athttp://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jan 7 21:18:42 1998 Subject: Re: NS source mac-creator="4D4F5353" Chris As soon as I get the excel version fixed I'm going to repost the tapers,and you're right , I'll include the line length...however TO ALL thisis an arbitrary number unless the maker stipulates the exact tunedlength to fish with the taper. Jerry from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Jan 7 22:58:20 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planing away power fibers George,I'm no expert but I believe that the glued joint in the nodeless rod notonly strengthens the rod but because of the glue ,gives continuity bytransferring power through the joint to the power fibers on each side ofthejoint. I planed a taper that was a 5 wgt. with nodes and a 6 wgt. withoutnodes. I can't figure any other explanation other than the above.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Jan 7 23:01:04 1998Received: from Subject: Re: Re: NS source Concerning a source of filters for finishes-the paint filters I have are toocoarse. Does anyone on the list have any ideas?Hank from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 8 00:12:11 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Say Amen! from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 8 00:30:07 1998 Subject: Re: NS source In a message dated 98-01-08 00:07:29 EST, you write: Yes, Hank, I get old linen shirts from the thrift store (the one near theritzy neighborhood) and wash them a few times. Make great filters. Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jan 8 02:45:22 1998 Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:45:13 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Planing away power fibers On Wed, 7 Jan 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: George,I'm no expert but I believe that the glued joint in the nodeless rod notonly strengthens the rod but because of the glue ,gives continuity bytransferring power through the joint to the power fibers on each side ofthejoint. I planed a taper that was a 5 wgt. with nodes and a 6 wgt. withoutnodes. I can't figure any other explanation other than the above.Hank. Even if all other things are equal, and they're prob not a nodless spline is a joy to plane. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jan 8 02:57:18 1998 Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:57:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Am I a Rodmaker? Onis, /*********snip********/expected. Sometimes what I see in my mind's eye and what I achievedon'tcorrelate. This was the problem with the thread. When I applied thefinish, the thread I had chosen turned completely transparent. It is onething to read about it and another to see it. Off came the thread. Oneguy recommends painting the area under the thread white then windingthethread. I tried it. Didn't like the method or the results so off came thethread. Tried using color restorer and got splotchy results. Off camethe Yeach!!I had all kinds of problems with this subject until I hit on this.2 coats of Gudebrod colour preserver, 1 coat of ureathane then dip the rod in varnish.I think the ureathane alone will work ok, but I had an occasional bleed of varnish at a guide foot so I added the preserver.Preserver alone seemed the same as ureathane alone. Ureathane also makes a good finish for wood fillers if you don't mind a thick buildup. I just dip the filler (or turned rod section I'll use for a ferrule plug) straight into the can of ureathane and let it drain straight back in. It drys so fast you can use the piece next day. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Jan 8 06:05:18 1998 Subject: Re: Am I a Rodmaker? Onis: I really admire your persistence and problem-solving ability. Congratulationson your first rod. With regard to the wraps, if you want to preserve the original threadcolor,follow the instructions that Mike Sinclair gives in is book. Use a goodquality clear lacquer (for brushing, not spraying). Thin the 1st coat 1:1,the 2nd coat 3 (lacquer):1(thinner), and the 3rd coat full strength. Allowatleast an hour between coats, more if the humidity is high, and 24 hoursafterthe last coat before any varnish goes on. I have not have trouble with"bleeding" by following this method. --Rich from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jan 8 07:33:00 1998 Subject: Re: Am I a Rodmaker? Yes, I think you qualify as a rodmaker. Don't worry that your first rod isn'tall you wanted. Mine looks like it was made by a woodpecker. Take a piece of smooth dowel and put on some thread wraps in as manycolors asyou are interested in. Then finish them and observe the results. You willhavea much better idea how to proceed next time. White paint???! !Many of the classic rods were finished conservatively in shades of tan andbrown or yellow. That is not a bad place to start, as you can't really gowrong no matter how you finish. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Jan 8 08:15:12 1998 Subject: Re: NS source In a message dated 98-01-07 20:23:44 EST, you write: Jerry / Thomas - Just a note: I do not take credit for the above web sitementioned. Another list member posted it, but I kept only the siteaddress,which was passed on to Thomas with the mention it was another's originalinformation. No infrinegment intended.Regards,RTyree from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Jan 8 08:25:11 1998 09:24:39 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re: Help with form construction Tom,Look in Jerry Fosters Rodmakers webpage in the tips and techniques section. There is a link to Thomas Penrose's page that has very detailed instructions on making steel planing forms. Look around for a lathe with a hollow head stock. I got a new one for $185. You may find a better price at auctions, etc. Build as many of your tools as you can to keep the cost down. The Rodmakers page has instructions for a binder. Also, it helps a lot to read the archives. Tons of info there.Good luck.Jon McAnulty from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jan 8 08:35:00 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: NS source theres air to blow up volleyballs ----------From: Brian & Michelle Creek[SMTP:mcreek@sirus.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 6:06 PM Subject: Re: NS source Jerry, There are so many new people coming by here to look at stuff we'rebound to get redundant questions. After looking through the archivesIrealize I haven't asked anything new (or terribly interesting, nowthatI think about it). Why is there air? Brian from Marty.Ball@noaa.gov Thu Jan 8 08:47:54 1998 RFC822 Gateway); Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:48:13 -0500Content-Identifier: 06AED34B4E728012Content-Return: Allowed Subject: Re[2]: NS source A note of caution about the metalmart nickel silver. I believe that of thetwo standard grades of nickel silver (14% and 18% ?) it is of the lower nickel content and therefore not suitable for making ferrules. Someone pleasecorrect me if I am wrong. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________ BTW, Richard Tyree suggested a great source at: http://www.metalmart.com . They have AL, NiAg and all sorts of other metals, though the Nickel Silver is not cheap. Great web site - a canidiate for a link on your page, maybe? Best regards for a speedy recovery, Thomas---------- from dryfly@erols.com Thu Jan 8 09:07:36 1998 Subject: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses Now that the tax season is upon us, I thought I'd inquire as to thetreatment of part-time cane rodmaking as business and the opportunity toexpense/depreciate my investment in the equipment as business expenseson my taxes. I had aspirations to build cane rods in 1997 andaccumulated all the equipment necessary to do so but due to an excessivework load in my everyday job I was unable to do so. My plans are now tobegin building in 1998. I thought that maybe some of you have faced the situation of expensingequipment and other related expenses as part of your taxes in the past. Any thoughts before I contact my tax accountant. from Marty.Ball@noaa.gov Thu Jan 8 09:36:51 1998 RFC822 Gateway); Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:36:50 -0500Content-Identifier: 00D3534B4F28201FContent-Return: Allowed Subject: Nickel silver A note of caution about the metalmart nickel silver. I believe that of the two standard grades of nickel silver (14% and 18% ?) it is of the lower nickel content and therefore not suitable for making ferrules. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator _________________________________ BTW, Richard Tyree suggested a great source at: http://www.metalmart.com . They have AL, NiAg and all sorts of other metals, though the Nickel Silver is not cheap. Great web site - a canidiate for a link on your page, maybe? Best regards for a speedy recovery, Thomas---------- from wdube@ebmail.gdeb.com Thu Jan 8 10:07:22 1998 85256586.00586181 ; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 11:05:21 -0500 Subject: Ferrule Needed Help! I need a single 15/64 inch Super Z male ferrule. I've tried to reachBailey Wood at (802) 888-7859, but received a recording saying that thenumber is not in service. Can anyone supply me with the ferrule or knowwhere to get one? Many thanks, Wayne (not the famous one) from flyfisher@rhco.com Thu Jan 8 10:17:44 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Ferrule Needed Angler's Workshop has them. Ask them if they'll sell just the maleportion.1- 360-225-9445 Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: wdube@ebmail.gdeb.com [SMTP:wdube@ebmail.gdeb.com]Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 11:08 AM Subject: Ferrule Needed Help! I need a single 15/64 inch Super Z male ferrule. I've tried to reachBailey Wood at (802) 888-7859, but received a recording saying thatthenumber is not in service. Can anyone supply me with the ferrule orknowwhere to get one? Many thanks, Wayne (not the famous one) from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Jan 8 10:50:23 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts - Micro mesh kit -----Original Message-----try Woodcrafter's or Woodcraft Supply or someplace like that Davy I called both places (their web's involved complex downloading) and localBaltimore woodcrafting place - no luck. People heard of it, but can'tsource it. There is no rush, but perhaps in your next cat. rummagingexcercise you can find me some more leads or a source. Sorry to keepcomingback to you on this. Regards, Ted G. from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Jan 8 11:00:33 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Needed You have the wrong number. Bailey's phone is 802-525-3623.Ask him whenhe'sgoing on the net, then plug your ears.GEM from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Jan 8 11:01:18 1998 Subject: Re: Help with form construction Tom, Bruce Conner has a detailed description on how to make planingforms out ofwood. His FAQ is at http://www.cybercom.net/%7Ebconner/rod.html. Itcontains lots of ood stuff that you ought to find useful I have built 8 rods using nickle plated ferrules (can't justify NS yet) andfittedthe blank to the ferrule by using an Xacto knife (carefully, uniformly,scraped away bamboo from each corner of the blank). If you're careful, this worksjustfine. Good luck,Roger from FlyfishT@aol.com Wed Jan 7 18:34:45 1998Date: Wed, 7 Jan 1998 21:28:16 EST Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: FlyfishT Subject: Help with form constructionContent-transfer-encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN I need to know how to build a low cost planing form. I'm just gettingstartedand I just watched the Wayne video and I'm wondering if I can afford thisadventure. I would like to make as much of the equipment as I can. Doesanybody have papers on the planing form construction? wood or metal?Do I needa lathe to turn the rod for the furls? Is there any other way? If not,would awood lathe work? Something you could buy used at an auction? Wherewould I buya binder? Tom NFlyfishT from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Jan 8 11:30:34 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts - Micro mesh kit The Sanding Catalog people carry micro mesh kits and tons of othersandingsupplies. Adress:Klingspor's Sanding CatalogP.o. Box 3737Hickory,N.C. 28603 1-800-228-0000 from burrill@ccnet.com Thu Jan 8 11:32:36 1998 09:30:56 -0800 Subject: Forms Accuracy I'm new to this. Looking at buying/building planing forms. I'm noengineer, but I seem to recall from high school metalshop that to achievea reliable accuracy of n in the finished product, the tool used must beaccurate to n/10. Applying this to planing forms, where we wish toacieve .001" accuracy, the forms need to be accurate to .0001". I've talked/mailed several forms builders, and the best forms I'vefound are guaranteed only to +/- .003". (These were milled in a single passon a computerized milling machine.) This means the finished rod could beoff by as much as .006". And my guess is hand made forms are worse.Am I exaggerating this problem? How can I realistically expect tohand plan strips to within .001" when the form itself could be off by asmuch as 3 times that amount? from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Jan 8 12:00:48 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Hank -I use several thicknesses of clean cheesecloth in an old teastrainer I bought at a rummage sale. Works well, though you do loosesome varnish that soaks into the cloth. Brian from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jan 8 12:17:36 1998 Subject: Re: Forms Accuracy In a message dated 1/8/98 5:36:35 PM, you wrote: Yes, you are. You are forgetting that the forms are adjustable. As long asthe top and bottom are flat, the angles are correct, and the slope of thegrooves reasonably uniform, you won't have any problem. from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Thu Jan 8 12:21:05 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Subject: bamboo with 5' internodes!!! This morning in my lab I happened to be perusing through McClure'staxonomic treatment of "Genera of Bamboos Native to the New World," andloand behold there was a frontispiece of a trumpeter from Ecuador soundingthe dinner call using a bocina (some type of trumpet) made from a single,5-foot internode of a bamboo in the South American genus Aulonemia. Heck,the thing looked longer than some of my short rods. Just think what younodless folks could do with this! from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Jan 8 12:27:29 1998 13:26:56 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: New/different oven design description and schematic of an inexpensive forced air bamboo tempering oven on the Rodmakers webpage (http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.html) in the tips and techniques FAQ section. The oven description is at (http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/tips/jmHotairOven.html). A schematiccan be had by clicking the design concepts link. Jerry, Thanks for putting this up. I hope it is of help to someone.Cheers.Jon from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Thu Jan 8 12:35:23 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Needed Wayne (not the fanous one),Try E. Hille Co., 815 Railway St., Williamsport PA 17701 (717)323-7564.Hope this helps.Len (the also not so famous one) Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from FlyfishT@aol.com Thu Jan 8 12:43:54 1998 Subject: Beginner refurbing cheap rod Hello friends, As a beginner, I always need help! Recently, I bought a cheap Japanese rodatan auction. The fit of the furl connections between the male and female isloose. So I would like to remove the old furls and install new ones. Can Iremove them carefully with a cut-off wheel or drummel tool withoutdestroyingthe bamboo or is there another procedure? Also, the guides need to bereplacedand rewrapped. Tom NFlyfishT from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Jan 8 12:47:37 1998 KAA16045 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 10:47:04 - Subject: Re: Forms Accuracy You have to set the forms for the taper that you are using. They are adjustable. The use of a depth gauge is necessary to do this. During theplaning process, many measurements need to be made with a good caliper,andyou will be able to hit the .001" accuracy you are looking for. Thanks,Roger from burrill@ccnet.com Thu Jan 8 09:36:39 1998Date: Thu, 8 Jan 1998 09:29:37 -0800 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Dean Burrill Subject: Forms AccuracyMIME-Version: 1.0Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bitX- MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit bywugate.wustl.edu id LAA17181X- Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN I'm new to this. Looking at buying/building planing forms. I'm noengineer, but I seem to recall from high school metalshop that to achievea reliable accuracy of n in the finished product, the tool used must beaccurate to n/10. Applying this to planing forms, where we wish toacieve .001" accuracy, the forms need to be accurate to .0001". I've talked/mailed several forms builders, and the best forms I'vefound are guaranteed only to +/- .003". (These were milled in a single passon a computerized milling machine.) This means the finished rod could beoff by as much as .006". And my guess is hand made forms are worse.Am I exaggerating this problem? How can I realistically expect tohand plan strips to within .001" when the form itself could be off by asmuch as 3 times that amount? from jczimny@dol.net Thu Jan 8 12:52:11 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses Make sure that you're paying your 10% excise tax.John Zimny from jczimny@dol.net Thu Jan 8 12:52:14 1998 Subject: Re: NS source It is very rare to see solid stock in 752 (18%). Most of what is outthere is of the 11 to 14% varieties. It has a copper caste to it. No itis not as strong in tensile strength as the 752. But, many have used thelesser varieties quite successfully.John Zimny from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Jan 8 12:56:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: NS source Brian and Davy,Thanks for your help-I'm going to try the old shirt method placed in agallon can with a hole in the bottom-I need to pour a gallon at a time asI'musing a 6" wide clear tube and draining the varnish out the bottom andlettingthe 3 or 4 sticks dry in the tube-works pretty well so far.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Jan 8 13:03:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Am I a Rodmaker? Tony,About ferrule plugs-I've had a few wooden ones swell and be hard toremove-I've since turned them down enough to wrap and glue some sheet cork'round 'emand that seems to have solved the problem.Hank. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Jan 8 13:17:53 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses At 10:08 08/01/98 -0500, you wrote:Now that the tax season is upon us, I thought I'd inquire as to thetreatment of part-time cane rodmaking as business and the opportunitytoexpense/depreciate my investment in the equipment as business expenseson my taxes. I had aspirations to build cane rods in 1997 andaccumulated all the equipment necessary to do so but due to an excessivework load in my everyday job I was unable to do so. My plans are now tobegin building in 1998. I thought that maybe some of you have faced the situation of expensingequipment and other related expenses as part of your taxes in the past. Any thoughts before I contact my tax accountant. Take the gov't. on a as patron - it's the only way to afford all thegoodies. Of course, someday, they'd like you to make a profit and sendsomeof the tax savings back. Little do they know about rod building. Go for it.And at the same time, include your fly tying stuff if you've spent any timeas a pro tier. Don Andersen from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 8 13:27:36 1998 Subject: Sharpening Plane Blades I know this has been covered before, but I havebeen getting some private emails asking aboutsharpening plane blades, and I thought I wouldpost it since we seem to have quite a few newlisters. This is how I sharpen plane blades: Get a Hock replacement blade. I did a side by sidecomparison of the stock blade that came with my plane and a Hock blade. The stock blade took twice as much work to sharpen to the same sharpness and got dull quicker. The mail order place I ordered the Hock blade fromasked if I wanted it sharpened for 2 dollars more.I recommend having them do this, not becauseit is sharp when it arrives (it isn't *really* as sharp as it should be), but because one of the steps theydo is to polish the back of the blade - and that isone of the essential steps in getting a really sharpblade. If you try to polish the back yourself - withoutpower equipment - well, let's just say it's well worththe two bucks they charge. Get a waterstone. I used to pride myself on howsharp I could get knives and blades with an Arkansasstone sharpening kit. After using a waterstone I was amazed at how much sharper the blades were. There is no comparison. I use two combination waterstones. The 1000 - 6000 and the 1200 - 8000. I don't use the 1000 side too much, only when I need to take out nicks - like when I accidentally hit the planing form. Since I use two waterstones, I use the on the stonehoning guide. If you use the off the stone roller typeand you use two stones the angle will be differentif your stones are of different thicknesses. Flatten your waterstone periodically. Waterstones aresupposed to wear away to expose fresh cutting surfacesas you use it, and it gets dished in the middle. Flatten water. The mail order place I ordered my waterstones from alsohad a little piece of stone used to lightly rub on the waterstone to mix up a slurry on the stone to help in lubricationand cutting. Get one. It helps a lot. Just don't over do it andwear away your waterstone too quickly. After the bevel and the back are polished to a mirror finish,I loosen the guide and pull the blade back just a 64th andLIGHTLY stroke a couple times on the 8000 grit stone withthe blade trailing. That is, not pushing the blade in front ofthe honing guide into the waterstone, but pulling the guidewith the blade behind it. do this on both the bevel side and the back side. Of course the backside of the blade shouldbe held flat on the stone. This will hone off the microscopicburr that forms when sharpening. Now be careful! Sharp enough to shave with is a descriptionof a dull blade in comparison. If you do this right your planeblade is so sharp you can shave off the little ridges of yourfingerprint. I can usually do the final taper on at least six strips beforeI need to resharpen, but I usually resharpen after six strips just as a matter of course. Darryl Hayashida from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Jan 8 13:48:17 1998 Subject: Re: Forms Accuracy Buy Jeff Wagner's. They are the best! GEM from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Thu Jan 8 14:21:47 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts Ted-The Micro-Mesh sanding kit is stock #11L61on page 97 in the WoodcraftCatalog. It's listed for $39.99 plus shipping. Try calling them @1- 800-225-1153 to order. You get two pieces of 3"x6" abrasive cloth ineachof nine grits from 1500 to 12000 from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 8 15:49:27 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses In a message dated 98-01-08 14:25:01 EST, you write: Don Can you elucidate, please. To me, a Patron is either a rifle cartridge or afixture for faking a Spanish guitar. Trying to expand my horizons here. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Jan 8 15:54:47 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts - Micro mesh kit Ted I was just up at the South Seattle edition of "The Woodworkers' Store andthey've got a few of the grits (oh m'God I hope that doesn't start up again)starting with about 3400 and ending at about 12000; but I would reallyrecommend the kit, especially for woodworking as it starts at 1800, aboutwhere wet/dry paper leaves off. I know I've got it in a catalog somewhere. Stay tuned! Davy from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Jan 8 16:47:08 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses At 16:21 08/01/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 98-01-08 14:25:01 EST, you write: goodies. >> Don Can you elucidate, please. To me, a Patron is either a rifle cartridge or afixture for faking a Spanish guitar. Trying to expand my horizons here. Davy Davy, My copy of the New Collins dictionary defines a Patron as: 1] a person who sponsors artists, charities etc, protector or benefactor The New Collins Thesaurus contains the following for patrons: advocate, angel, backer, benefactor, champion, defender, friend, guardian,helper, philanthropist, protector, sponsor, supporter, buyer, client,customer, frequenter, habitue, shopper. Yup - to me it looks like the gov't is the best source of funding. regards, Don from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Thu Jan 8 17:04:53 1998 0000 Subject: Rodmaking equip. FS just posted Hello, I just noticed someone posted rodmaking equipment for sale at: http://www.flyshop.com/Classified/index.html Perhaps someone can use it. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from mrj@seanet.com Thu Jan 8 17:19:14 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA19659 for Subject: Re: Forms Accuracy -----Original Message----- Subject: Forms Accuracythe deal is that you measure the strips and then plane accordingly. If youplane down to the form as you have it set and your measurements are toogreat you simply slide the bamboo up in the form and plane untill you getthe proper figure. Yes you want to get accurate forms but remember thisnota moon shuttle. For several hundred dollars you can get really good forms.If you want to spend a few thousand on the forms you could probably findsomeone who would guarenttee the tolerances you describe. You stillwouldhave trouble planing to .001 if you are new to the sport. ...This means the finished rod could be off by as much as .006". And myguess is hand made forms are worse.Am I exaggerating this problem? How can I realistically expect to handplan strips to within .001" when the form itself could be off by as much as3 times that amount? from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Jan 8 17:31:16 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA18606 for; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 23:49:48 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Sharpening Plane Blades http://www.mv.com/ipusers/gunterman/SCARY.HTM#condensed In short You use pieces of wet&dry paper taped on a piece of plateglass.Boy does it work Carsten Jorgensen ---------- from jczimny@dol.net Thu Jan 8 17:42:09 1998 Subject: Re: Forms Accuracy DrBamboo wrote: Buy Jeff Wagner's. They are the best! GEMYep!Zimny from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 8 18:08:52 1998 1998 19:08:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Forms Accuracy GEM Words well spoken. Jeff's forms are truely good. Prob the bestforms ever made. A true pleasure to use. Chris from stpete@netten.net Thu Jan 8 18:13:47 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA20704 for; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 18:19:38 -0600 Subject: Using Bamboo in Freezing weather What's the consensus regarding the use of older Bamboo rods duringsubfreezing weather? I'm fishing this weekend on a tailwater, but theair temps could reach down to below 30 degrees. Any advice orrestrictions I should consider? I hate to dig out the plastic rods if Ican fish my Phillipson and Heddon. Rick from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Thu Jan 8 18:14:10 1998 (AST) 8 Jan 98 19:18:40 -0500 0500 8 Jan 98 19:18:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Forms Accuracy But how much are they??J. C. Zimny wrote: DrBamboo wrote: Buy Jeff Wagner's. They are the best! GEMYep!Zimny from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jan 8 18:15:55 1998 Subject: Re: Re: NS source Hank,Try using a womans nylon stocking to strain your finish. The come indifferent densities. A nurses white is real dense if you need something todoa thin finsh.Bret from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Jan 8 18:23:00 1998 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA153205223; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 16:20:23 -0800 Subject: Wagner Information I looked at the Rodmaker's website but couldn't find any information on Jeff Wagner's forms. Did I miss it? Can someone provide contact information and pricing if there isn't a website. Thanks. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Thu Jan 8 18:27:58 1998 (AST) 8 Jan 98 19:32:34 -0500 0500 8 Jan 98 19:32:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Forms Accuracy Are his forms for sale and if so does anyone know for how muck Chris Bogart wrote: GEM Words well spoken. Jeff's forms are truely good. Prob thebestforms ever made. A true pleasure to use. Chris from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jan 8 18:39:31 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Wagner Information They are advertised in the planing form and cost $750+shipping. Pushpull,76 in 5 in centers, 15 stations, bevel slope 1/1000 per inch typvariances .0003 all surfaces ground flat and true, surfaced ground, heattreated, stress relieved steel. 216-845-4415 ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL[SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 4:27 PM Subject: Wagner Information I looked at the Rodmaker's website but couldn't find any informationon Jeff Wagner's forms. Did I miss it? Can someone provide contact information and pricing if there isn't a website. Thanks. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Bopep@aol.com Thu Jan 8 19:12:05 1998 Subject: Re: Wagner Information Yeah, me too... I'm sick of my forms (got 'em used, who knows who madethem)there has to be better...Rob from Bopep@aol.com Thu Jan 8 19:14:03 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Anybody got a $75 car? from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 8 19:48:17 1998 Subject: Re: Using Bamboo in Freezing weather In a message dated 1/8/98 4:15:54 PM Pacific Standard Time,stpete@netten.netwrites: What's the consensus regarding the use of older Bamboo rods duringsubfreezing weather? I'm fishing this weekend on a tailwater, but theair temps could reach down to below 30 degrees. Any advice orrestrictions I should consider? I hate to dig out the plastic rods if Ican fish my Phillipson and Heddon. I used my bamboo rod with it snowing, and ice forming on the guides fora day. It didn't seem to harm it. Darryl Hayashida from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 8 20:01:55 1998 VAA01730; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 21:01:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Wagner Information 42C26B86A6C59139FF5AEFB6" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 42C26B86A6C59139FF5AEFB6 Patrick I am glad someone had the info on Jeff's forms. I am on the roadduring the week and did not have info with me (we all have to earn a livingsomehow). I had to suck it in when I bought his forms. I had gotten goodresults out of the $300 forms available. Then I used these and WOW -what adifference! You have to build rods for a while before you can appreaciatethem. They really are worth the money to a serious rodbuilder and arereally a bargin in the larger scope of things. I am not longing for abetter form - because there is none and this one is everything I could hope Chris Coffey, Patrick W wrote: They are advertised in the planing form and cost $750+shipping. Pushpull,76 in 5 in centers, 15 stations, bevel slope 1/1000 per inch typvariances .0003 all surfaces ground flat and true, surfaced ground, heattreated, stress relieved steel. 216-845-4415 ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL[SMTP:mcdowellc@lanecc.edu] Sent: Thursday, January 08, 1998 4:27 PM Subject: Wagner Information I looked at the Rodmaker's website but couldn't find any informationonJeff Wagner's forms. Did I miss it? Can someone provide contactinformation and pricing if there isn't a website. Thanks. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu --------------42C26B86A6C59139FF5AEFB6 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------42C26B86A6C59139FF5AEFB6-- from WDHCJL@aol.com Thu Jan 8 20:38:42 1998 Subject: Humidity as involoving bamboo storage Just a question...This may be an issue that impacts each of us in differentways based on region but... Any thoughts on the impact of various humiditylevels on long term storage of bamboo. I live in the "grit" country of thetrue deep south (GA). We have very high levels of humidity especiallyduringthe summers. How will this affect my bamboo long term? Has anyoneevery usedhygrometers to monitor these levels (even as an experiment)? If not amajorconcern, are there some ideals that one could work towards (maybe withthe usea dehumidifier)?doug from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Jan 8 21:01:34 1998 Subject: Re: Wagner Information Jeff has an ad in the Planing Form. Phone # 216-845-4415GEM from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Jan 8 21:02:37 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Needed Wayne, Baily moved and has a new # try-802-525-3623 Dave L. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 8 21:37:48 1998 WAA23217; Thu, 8 Jan 1998 22:37:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Humidity as involoving bamboo storage 97B64E221F7B33E54E129BD5" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 97B64E221F7B33E54E129BD5 Doug It may be just a myth. We have rodmakers in Florida and in thePacificNorthwest who seem to do just fine. I used to keep my can in the loft ofmyold barn / workshop - now I have it in the loft of my new shop. Don't thinkit makes a real difference if you keep it out of the weather. Chris WDHCJL wrote: Just a question...This may be an issue that impacts each of us indifferentways based on region but... Any thoughts on the impact of varioushumiditylevels on long term storage of bamboo. I live in the "grit" country of thetrue deep south (GA). We have very high levels of humidity especiallyduringthe summers. How will this affect my bamboo long term? Has anyoneevery usedhygrometers to monitor these levels (even as an experiment)? If not amajorconcern, are there some ideals that one could work towards (maybe withthe usea dehumidifier)?doug --------------97B64E221F7B33E54E129BD5 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------97B64E221F7B33E54E129BD5-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Jan 8 21:48:10 1998 Subject: Off line All, Pacific Bell's leased line to the ISP that I subscribe to went down for24 hours or so. I had to resubscribe to rodmakers and no email got intoCMIX's system - so sorry if anyone's email didn't get to me - pleaserepost and I'll reply. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Jan 8 22:13:23 1998 Subject: Re: Using Bamboo in Freezing weather At 18:08 08/01/98 -0600, you wrote:What's the consensus regarding the use of older Bamboo rods duringsubfreezing weather? I'm fishing this weekend on a tailwater, but theair temps could reach down to below 30 degrees. Any advice orrestrictions I should consider? I hate to dig out the plastic rods if Ican fish my Phillipson and Heddon. Rick Rick, Fished the Missouri River @ Craig, MT. several years ago for 3 days inrain, snow, with some 25F weather, heavy winds and with a cane rod - therod is still going strong. + It was the best "cluster" fishing I've everexperienced. Landed a sack full. Don from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Jan 8 22:42:26 1998 Subject: Re: Finishing reel seat inserts - Micro mesh kit -----Original Message----- Hey Guys, Thanks ever so much for the info. and the generosity of your valuabletime!!! Best regards, Ted G. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Jan 8 22:42:29 1998 Subject: Re: bamboo with 5' internodes!!! -----Original Message----- ,5-foot internode of a bamboo in the South American genus Aulonemia.nodless folks. . . JerryWe all become nodeless rodmakers (if we use ferrules)! Years ago, I had an acqaintance who was the bamboo expert for theSmithsonian - he's since passed away. Perhaps I'll try that institution forhelp re. alternative cane when I can find time. Seems it's one thing tofind a species of interest and quite another to lay hands on it. Don (in Florida), I noticed a post regards some cane of interest (forCanotine) in your area. Care to give a short bit of info. about nodespacing or other parameters of interest? Ted G. from Canerods@aol.com Thu Jan 8 22:54:02 1998 Subject: Re: Beginner refurbing cheap rod In a message dated 98-01-08 13:52:42 EST, you write: Tom, You can remove ferrules (note spelling) with heat from an alcohol lampflame.A gas stove will also work, but there's a darn good chance that you'll dosomedamage too. Buy a small lamp from Angler's, Cabella's or some other rodbuilding supplycompany. The proper alcohol is denatured alcohol - it can be purchased at ahardware store. If this is a typical post WW-II japanese "GI" rod, you don't even need topulla metal pin out of the ferrules first. Install the new ferrules with epoxy or so-called ferrule cement (a type ofhotmelt glue). Angler's Workshop should have NPB ferrules and alcohol lamp. Don Burns from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 9 00:16:20 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA27837 Subject: Re: Planing away power fibers Chris, I could believe that a glue-splice on 1/6 of the cross section of a rod(nodeless construction) is less disruptive to the mechanical properties ofthebamboo than a node is (I think that is what you said). But you aredefinitelybreaking (cutting) the continuity of 1/6 of all of the rod's fibers at eachsplice.If the glue at the splice did mechanically behave exactly the same as thebamboo,then we're all wasting our time -- just make a mold of a rod and turn outrods George ----------From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: Planing away power fibersDate: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 6:08 PM George Not really - I look at this way - you have established continuityof the power fibers - by cuting out those $#@%$#&^&** nodes. Thinkaboutit! Chris At 08:28 PM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote:You've definitely lost continuity of the power fibers (too) if you buildnodeless. George Bourke ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Planing away power fibersDate: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:30 PM In a message dated 98-01-06 00:36:42 EST, you write: I'm finding if the culm has deep power fibers and nodiscernablevariation in density through the planed strip planing the outerfibersdoesnot seem to hurt the rod (I know this is heresy ). Of course youlosecontinuity of fibers the length of the rod but if you have nodesyou'velostcontinuity anyway. That's my feeling also. I think for most culms, given good depth ofpower fibers, the enamel side can be planed or scraped away to a fairly deep depth. Past most water marks and surface blemishes, which wouldleaveus with very nice evenly colored bamboo rods. I'm beginning to believethis is why Orvis and Winston have such cosmetically perfect bambooin their rods. Darryl Hayashida from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 9 00:26:43 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA6610 Subject: Re: Re[2]: NS source I am the person who originally posted the MetalMart URL to the group whensomeonewas looking for a source. Regarding nickel content, I've asked the question before and did not getwhat I felt wasan adequate answer. In browsing the web for nickel silver sources, Ifound:10% nickel silver12% nickel silver18% nickel silver25% nickel silverThe answer I received previously (thanks Dave LeClair) addressed the 12%and 18% nickelsilver. I can only assume that the 25% nickel silver is TOO hard tomachine??? George W. Bourke ----------From: Marty Ball Subject: Re[2]: NS sourceDate: Thursday, January 08, 1998 6:48 AM A note of caution about the metalmart nickel silver. I believe that ofthe two standard grades of nickel silver (14% and 18% ?) it is of the lowernickel content and therefore not suitable for making ferrules. Someone pleasecorrect me if I am wrong. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________ BTW, Richard Tyree suggested a great source at: http://www.metalmart.com . They have AL, NiAg and all sorts of other metals, though the NickelSilver is not cheap. Great web site - a canidiate for a link on your page, maybe? Best regards for a speedy recovery, Thomas---------- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 9 00:40:29 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA14883 Subject: Re: Rodmaking equip. FS just posted He posted before. Originally he wanted $4500. Then $1800. Now $1500.Includes 1930's South Bend lathe. He's in Chicago area (if I rememberright).BUT HE DOESN"T WANT TO SHIP IT ANYWHERE!!! Go figure. I guess if you're in his area, it would be worth looking into.BTW-- The lathe portion of his package would be in the $800-1000 byitself. George W. Bourke ----------From: Michael Stevens Subject: Rodmaking equip. FS just postedDate: Thursday, January 08, 1998 3:04 PM Hello, I just noticed someone posted rodmaking equipment for sale at: http://www.flyshop.com/Classified/index.html Perhaps someone can use it. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Jan 9 02:44:08 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses In a message dated 98-01-08 18:03:39 EST, you write: Don How do you do it? Davy from Thomas.ausfeld@Hitchcock.ORG Fri Jan 9 07:01:31 1998 mailhub.hitchcock.org (8.6.12-DND/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA05065 for; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 08:01:23 -0500 Subject: see ya soon.... Hello all, I'm about to send my unsub, I'll be in touch when I'm settled. Don't come up with anything earth shattering until I get back ; ) Tom Ausfeld from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Fri Jan 9 07:15:12 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 5-foot internode of a bamboo in the South American genus Aulonemia.nodless folks. . . JerryWe all become nodeless rodmakers (if we use ferrules)! Years ago, I had an acqaintance who was the bamboo expert for theSmithsonian - he's since passed away. Perhaps I'll try that institution forhelp re. alternative cane when I can find time. Seems it's one thing tofind a species of interest and quite another to lay hands on it. Perhaps your friend's name at the Smithsonian was Thomas Soderstromwhojoined McClure in his bamboo studies in later years. Indeed, the info Igave was taken from a Smithsonian Contributions to Botany #9 written byMcClure and edited by Soderstrom. With respect to Aulonemia queko, thebamboo in question, McClure apparently returned to the collecting localityin 1950 and found no sign of either the original forest or the bamboospecies! Obviously, it is either rare or perhaps even extinct! Of course,what the anatomy of this species is like is something else. I neglected toadd that although the internodes may reach 5' in length, the nodes aresomething else--think 2-3 nodes immediately adjacent to each other!!Guess I miss the point on the ferrule/nodeless comment (too early in thea.m.). Seems that I have ferruled bamboo rods with nodes, and I haveferruled bamboo rods built nodeless, and I have one piece bamboo nodelessand some with nodes. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Jan 9 07:36:15 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: NS source George, Have used 12% for both ferrules and reel seat components with littleproblem. Machines like butter. Tarnishes a little worse than the 18% stuffdo to Ni content. Don At 22:33 08/01/98 -0800, you wrote:I am the person who originally posted the MetalMart URL to the groupwhensomeonewas looking for a source. Regarding nickel content, I've asked the question before and did not getwhat I felt wasan adequate answer. In browsing the web for nickel silver sources, Ifound:10% nickel silver12% nickel silver18% nickel silver25% nickel silverThe answer I received previously (thanks Dave LeClair) addressed the 12%and 18% nickelsilver. I can only assume that the 25% nickel silver is TOO hard tomachine??? George W. Bourke ----------From: Marty Ball Subject: Re[2]: NS sourceDate: Thursday, January 08, 1998 6:48 AM A note of caution about the metalmart nickel silver. I believe that ofthe two standard grades of nickel silver (14% and 18% ?) it is of the lowernickel content and therefore not suitable for making ferrules. Someone pleasecorrect me if I am wrong. Marty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________ BTW, Richard Tyree suggested a great source at: http://www.metalmart.com . They have AL, NiAg and all sorts of other metals, though the NickelSilver is not cheap. Great web site - a canidiate for a link on your page, maybe? Best regards for a speedy recovery, Thomas---------- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Jan 9 07:36:18 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses At 03:43 09/01/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 98-01-08 18:03:39 EST, you write: advocate, angel, backer, benefactor, champion, defender, friend,guardian,helper, philanthropist, protector, sponsor, supporter, buyer, client,customer, frequenter, habitue, shopper. Yup - to me it looks like the gov't is the best source of funding. Don How do you do it? Davy Davy, Set it up like any other business. Difference is that you might @ somepoint sell enough rods to offset original costs that were deducted fromyour income when you set up the business. Expect that most rodmakerslikly will never get enough $'s from their rods to make a buck. Thedifference between cost and sales is yours. Mind you, you've already spentthe $'s. But at least you get some back. And anyway - you were going tobuild rods weren't you? And if you're really lucky, try to find someartsy/fartsy group to sponsor you retrun to natural building materials. Don from PMetzger@frsd.k12.nj.us Fri Jan 9 10:22:32 1998 Subject: Becoming a Student I am about to retire (young of course) from a fulfilling career as anschool principal. I will now have the time to build that cane rod Ialways wanted. Is there anyone in the Morris County New Jersey areawho is looking for an eager "apprentice." I have built glass rods andrefinished two cane rods but have absolutely no idea about how to getstarted in building the "real" thing. I read a few books - but I amlooking for someone willing to spend some time with a soon to beex-principal who wants to become a student.Looking forward to hearing from a possible mentor. Paul Metzger ................................................Paul G. Metzger, PrincipalReading-Fleming Middle School50 Court StreetFlemington,N.J. 08822Voice - 908-284- 7501Fax - 908-284-7518Email: pmetzger@frsd.k12.nj.us from Canerods@aol.com Fri Jan 9 11:13:51 1998 Subject: Re: Sharpening Plane Blades The December 97 issue of "Fine Woodworking" has an article "In Search ofthePerfect Benchstone". A good review of Arkansas stones, Japanesewaterstones,Norton waterstones, ceramic stones and diamond plates. The Arkansas stones worked well only on high-carbon steels and didn'tworkwell on "high-speed steel" - is a Hock blade high-carbon or high- speedsteel?Plus they needed to be used with oil - messy and could contaminate thewood(cane in our case) being planed. Worked slowly to develop an edge on theblade. The Norton waterstone is a USA made stone is made with a harder binderthanthe Japanese waterstones and had more "feedback". Otherwise, they wereaboutthe same as the Japanese stones - both wore quickly and needed to beflattenedoften. Ceramic stones worked well too, but were 0.010's from being flat - anddidn'twork after they tried to flatten them. Don Burns from ttalsma@macatawa.org Fri Jan 9 11:37:43 1998 [206.26.113.2] (may be forged)) (8.7.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA07631 for ; Subject: Plane Blade Sharpening Jigs I just got a nice bench grinder for Christmas and was wondering ifanyone had a jig/apparatus to help in the sharpening of plane blades. Iguess an even better question is if this ia a good idea at all. TIA-- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Todd Talsma + Sligh Furniture Company + Phone:616- 394-0560 ++Sr. Systems Analyst + 1201 Industrial Avenue + Fax: 616- 392-9495 +++++++++++++++++++++++ Holland MI 49423 ++++++++++++++++++++++ from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Jan 9 12:00:21 1998 MAA11831 for ; Fri, 9 Jan 1998 12:00:19 - (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id MAA21948 for ; Subject: Re: Sharpening Plane Blades To speed my sharpening, and since I put a groove in my plane sole,I cut away part of the blade edge on a grinding wheel, so it lookslike this:Originial edge|v Ground back------- || | v----- -----| || || | You just want to grind back maybe 0.05 inches so the entire width of theplane blade still rests on the frog, or whatever you call the frog- equivalent on a block plane. Grind it back at the same (approx) angle as the usual edge, so you don't loose any support surface, which is the back of the blade. Anyway the blade takes only 1/2 the time to touch up, since you have only 1/2 the blade width to hone. I think this should work of the blade for planing. If you hold your plane at a skew, it becomes problematic.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Jan 9 14:39:09 1998 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Sharpening Jigs In a message dated 98-01-09 12:46:27 EST, you write: from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Jan 9 17:12:24 1998 Subject: Re: Humidity as involoving bamboo storage Chris - I really like the buttons on the bottom of your most recent post. Veryhelpful and not too pushy. How did you make these? Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jan 9 19:47:37 1998 Subject: Straining varnish Guys,Steal or go buy new womans nylon stockings to starin your finish, thisworksvery well. A nurses white stockings are thicker than regular ones likeyourwife wears. I have been using this method for many years. You can getfivestrainers out of one pair buy tying knots at different intervals up leg( twoper leg) and then the crotch area makes for one big one.Bret from tedgodfreys@erols.com Fri Jan 9 19:54:25 1998 Subject: Re: -----Original Message----- JerryWe all become nodeless rodmakers (if we use ferrules)! Perhaps your friend's name at the Smithsonian was Thomas SoderstromMcClure apparently returned to the collecting locality in 1950 and foundno sign of either the original forest or the bamboo species! I neglectedto add that although the internodes may reach 5' in length, the nodes aresomething else--think 2-3 nodes immediately adjacent to each other!!Guess I miss the point on the ferrule/nodeless comment Been so long ago, I can't remember his name only sitting on his back porch,drink in one hand and a piece of tonkin in the other. Of course the speciesis gone - alternative cane is a delusion - isn't it? I was simply stating the (too) obvious about construction - we only havetofool with nodes when they are there; if they aren't there . . . (uslessbandwidth) Regards, Ted G. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jan 9 20:05:50 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Using Bamboo in Freezing weather I've used my bamboo rods in all kinds of conditions from freezing to 110degrees. I trust it a lot more than I do these new fangled high techgraphiterods. I have never broken a bamboo rod under any conditions but I haveseenand broken rods of less desirable materials in the snow.Bret from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 9 20:18:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planing away power fibers George,I believe the splice transfers the power through to the next set ofpowerfibers-at least thats how I rationalize the increase in line wgt of thenodeless over the noded rods of the same taper. Just my 1/2 cents.Hank. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jan 9 20:19:01 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Wagner Information What about Lon Blauvelt's forms are they any good? Does anyone havethem orhas any1 used them? from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Jan 9 21:15:40 1998 Subject: Re: Straining varnish Hey! This gives me an. . . . no. I won't even go there. ;-)Brian from mrj@seanet.com Fri Jan 9 22:36:09 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA04889 for Subject: Re: Re: Wagner Information I have one. Have had it for a couple of years now and am happy with it.----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: Wagner Information What about Lon Blauvelt's forms are they any good? Does anyone havethemorhas any1 used them? from wfmack@evansville.net Fri Jan 9 23:37:13 1998 world.evansville.netvia sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) (Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: Sherline Jon Lintvet wrote: I just wanted to let all the rod makers looking at lathes to knowthat if they can purchase with cash/check...I can sell the Sherlinesto rodmakers for hair above cost. I do not mean to advertise....itis just the thought of someone paying more than they should. Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781Jon--I was jsut given a Sherline lathe for Christmas and am looking tobuy various accessories, including probably the riser blocks, theextended inboard and outboard tool rests for wood turning, and some kindof live center for the tailstock, and perhaps the milling attachment. If you will be selling accessories, can you drop me a price list. Thanks. Bill Mack wfmack@evansville.net from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jan 9 23:57:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: NS source George, I've never used or even seen 25% N/S, but I'm betting it would be asonof a gun to machine. Dave L. from RckyMtKane@aol.com Sat Jan 10 00:21:53 1998 Subject: Re: New/different oven design JonI was looking this design over and I think you are really on to something.Good job, I'm sure this will help many builders. Keep up the good work. Andthanks for sharing it. My .02 worth.Joe from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Jan 10 00:34:27 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses In a message dated 98-01-09 08:40:43 EST, you write: Don Sell my rods?? You're starting to sound like an agent for my wife! Why,I'das soon sell my children (contact me off-list) as do something so heinous. Seriously Don, thanks for the last suggestion. I'll be on the lookout for thestylishly flatulent groups to which you alluded. My wife says I'mdevelopingsome "geezer appeal", which might be channelled into that sort- of"Gepettomode" if I work on it. I've got to get me a pair of those little glasses! Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jan 10 01:17:13 1998 Sat, 10 Jan 1998 15:16:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Using Bamboo in Freezing weather On Fri, 9 Jan 1998, Grhghlndr wrote: I've used my bamboo rods in all kinds of conditions from freezing to 110degrees. I trust it a lot more than I do these new fangled high techgraphiterods. I have never broken a bamboo rod under any conditions but I haveseenand broken rods of less desirable materials in the snow.Bret The only problem with 110 deg is remembering to not leave the rod in the car with windows wound up. I don't *know* of problems with rods but I do know of a few recurve bows going by the by from this. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Sat Jan 10 02:48:17 1998 Subject: Andy Royer cane Gentlemen; I lost my connection to the internet in early September and just recentlygot back online,glad to be back!!.One of the last things I learned about was Andy Royers shipment of cane.Having purchased 3 batches (minimum orders, total of 11 culms) from twodifferent sources and not recieved anything that looked to myinexperiencedeye to be of top quality I decided to give Andy's a try.When i got theshipment, it was covered with mildew or mold or whatever that greenstuffis, but after cleaning it off it looks better than anything I have seenyet. I would be interested to know the opinion of some of you guys thathave seen enough cane to know good from bad. Also, I assume this stuffwascut this year and I would like to know how long I should cure this in theattic of my shop before I use it, I live in southwest Colorado where theaverage humidity is usually less than 50%.Thanks for the input.John ChannerDurango, Co. from wolfriverrods@gbonline.com Sat Jan 10 07:24:58 1998 message Subject: Re: Wagner Information I have Lon's forms and they are great! He is a retired engineer and is veryprecise in his requirements for the forms he sells.Dennis @ Wolf River Rods ---------- What about Lon Blauvelt's forms are they any good? Does anyone havethem orhas any1 used them? from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Jan 10 07:45:37 1998 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Sharpening Jigs At 12:35 09/01/98 -0500, you wrote:I just got a nice bench grinder for Christmas and was wondering ifanyone had a jig/apparatus to help in the sharpening of plane blades. Yup - Lee Valley Tools of Ottawa, Ontario, Canada has got the best thereis. Iguess an even better question is if this ia a good idea at all. Nope - too easy to burn the blade and you gotta get them a lot sharper thanyou can get from grinders. Don Andersen TIA-- ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++Todd Talsma + Sligh Furniture Company + Phone:616- 394-0560 ++Sr. Systems Analyst + 1201 Industrial Avenue + Fax: 616- 392-9495 +++++++++++++++++++++++ Holland MI 49423 ++++++++++++++++++++++ from mrj@seanet.com Sat Jan 10 10:46:56 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA19058 for Subject: Re: Andy Royer cane Andys Cane, I thought, was just what I paid for. I too don't have a lot ofexperience at building. I have built 8 rods and am working (slowly) on the9th which I plan to sell. I have bought 3 times, twice from Demarest. ThisAndys cane) has shown me that the stuff I got from Demarest was firstratestuff. Larger in diameter and no water stains. Straight. Andys cane all hadwater stains and the mold you mention. His cane was straight also butsmaller in diameter. Power fibers appear to be the same. We can only hopethat the mold is surface only. It appears to be the case but then I don'tknow a lot about mold. The cane from Demarest all had splits in it when Igot it. Andys had one split in 30 pieces about a foot long and of course nogrowers marks which I have on the Demarest cane. Cane is the cheapestpartof the rod even at twice the price. If you bought some from Demarest lasttime I did, when it was all over and done with, the bundle of 25 cost$400.00 sent to Seattle. That is $16.00 per culm. I can easily get 2 rodsper culm. That is $8 bucks per rod! IMO I really wonder sometimes aboutallthis talk about getting cheap cane when it is already cheap to begin with!I consider my Demarest cane to be my prime stuff with Andys cane good level of experience. Unfortunately all my Demarest cane is seasoned andtheRoyer cane is green (but in my basement it is drying out fast). I now haveenough cane for at the very least 30 rods probably more! At this rate ofoneor two rods a year (I am going to school for a year now so this year Imightnot do even one) you can see that it will be a while before I need caneagain. I would say in my opinion that 1 year would dry it out pretty good.Other people might say more like 3 or so and I would not argue with them.Ifyou need to make a rod than (are you new to the hobby?) go ahead and do it.I was told to consider my first 12 rods practice rods, which I am doing.Themore I have made the more I believe that. I was asked by a person to makethem one and it will be a challenge to build one that I feel is good enoughto sell. Good Luck-----Original Message----- Subject: Andy Royer cane Gentlemen; I lost my connection to the internet in early September and just recentlygot back online,glad to be back!!.One of the last things I learned about was Andy Royers shipment of cane.Having purchased 3 batches (minimum orders, total of 11 culms) fromtwodifferent sources and not recieved anything that looked to myinexperiencedeye to be of top quality I decided to give Andy's a try.When i got theshipment, it was covered with mildew or mold or whatever that greenstuffis, but after cleaning it off it looks better than anything I have seenyet. I would be interested to know the opinion of some of you guys thathave seen enough cane to know good from bad. Also, I assume this stuffwascut this year and I would like to know how long I should cure this in theattic of my shop before I use it, I live in southwest Colorado where theaverage humidity is usually less than 50%.Thanks for the input.John ChannerDurango, Co. from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Sat Jan 10 11:37:27 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses At 10:08 AM 1/8/98 -0500, Robert S Williams wrote: Now that the tax season is upon us, I thought I'd inquire as to thetreatment of part-time cane rodmaking as business and the opportunitytoexpense/depreciate my investment in the equipment as business expenseson my taxes. I had aspirations to build cane rods in 1997 andaccumulated all the equipment necessary to do so but due to an excessivework load in my everyday job I was unable to do so. My plans are now tobegin building in 1998. I thought that maybe some of you have faced the situation of expensingequipment and other related expenses as part of your taxes in the past. Any thoughts before I contact my tax accountant. Robert, I'm not sure where you're heading with your question but -- You can only write off business expense against business income. Youcan'twrite off the cost of the equipment against income earned from othersources in '97. You can, however, carry the expenses forward to futureyears when you do have rod sales. Later,Johnny------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 10 12:12:26 1998 Subject: Re: Andy Royer cane In a message dated 1/10/98 12:58:29 AM Pacific Standard Time,channer@frontier.net writes: I would be interested to know the opinion of some of you guys thathave seen enough cane to know good from bad. I also got a shipment of Royer cane last November. This is what Iposted about it then, and it is still my opinion. I did find a lot ofmold once I started to split the culms in half. Perhaps the Demarestcane does have growers marks, and the Royer cane does not, butthe Demarest cane has much thicker power fibers and will makea better rod to fish. The Royer cane will perhaps make a better lookingrod, but it will be weaker - with the same taper. I think you will finda rod made from the Royer cane will cast a lighter line than arod made from the same taper but made from Demarest cane. Also, take note of Wayne's posts on his bamboo strengthtester and moldy cane. Darryl Hayashida *********************************************************************Posted last November: I got a bundle of the grade A cane, and it is goodcane, most of the culms are worth the money, butit isn't excellent cane. I would characterize it as"blue collar" cane, good for your run of the millrods, but not cane I would use for a commandperformance. Every one of the Demerest culmsI have are heavier, with thicker power fibers. Don'tget me wrong, I wouldn't reject the Royer cane asunusable, but I also wouldn't use it for anythingover an 8 ft. 6 or 7 weight. I also would not useit to make a blonde rod, unless you are willingto reject most of the strips or you don't mind afew water marks. from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 10 12:26:36 1998 Subject: Re: Andy Royer cane In a message dated 1/10/98 8:52:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,mrj@seanet.comwrites: I was asked by a person to makethem one and it will be a challenge to build one that I feel is goodenoughto sell. Good Luck Try finding a collector of bamboo rods and have him critique your rods.It is an eye opening experience. On the other hand, if you have an ego that is easily bruised, don't do it. I had a collector look at my rods, and I was encouraged by his appraisal.He critiqued my No.12 rod and named a price that was a little higherthan I would have sold it for. Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Jan 10 13:01:51 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses RO>Robert, RO>I'm not sure where you're heading with your question but -- RO>You can only write off business expense against business income. Youcan'tRO>write off the cost of the equipment against income earned from otherRO>sources in '97. You can, however, carry the expenses forward to futureRO>years when you do have rod sales. RO>Later,RO>Johnny Robert, The only good advise is use a tax consultant - even then the IRS changesthe rules so often that you can never be sure of anything. I believe you also need to show a profit once every 5 years or yourbusiness isn't considered a "real" business and you'd be dinged for backtaxes in the all years that you claimed that it was. The only way to fully expense equipment costs is to lease the equipmentvs purchase, then the payments are an expense. A small business is alsoallowed to fully expense certain amount of dollars used for equipmentthat would normally be depreciated over X number of years - but talk toan accountant for the rules. If you use part of your house for your business, it must be exclusive tothe business to be written off. You can depreciate that part of yourhome, BUT then when you sell the house - your cost of purcahse isreduced by the amount that you've depreciated from the business portionof the house. I've never found that the benefits out way the paperworkto keep track of this and all the other BS involved to maintain therecords. If you work on a strictly "cash" basis then record keeping is much likekeeping a checkbook. You need to "earn" income before the business "exists" in many states -so until the first cash comes in you can't write off anything. There's many books out on how to start your own business, including howto start your own business books for most states. Each state isdifferent and rules for counting the # of employees gets crazy. But dotry to have a zero (0) employee DBA (doing business as) unless you wanteven more grief with records. Costs to Inc. can be stiff. Check out business restrictions and license fees for your town, countyand state too. Bend over, if you're living in Los Angeles, the cost willbe lots of bucks and you most likely can't legally work out of yourhouse. If you plan to use your car for business - you'll need to keep a recordof ALL mileage and the reason for each trip. Plus all gas/repair bills. As always - use at your own risk. Cases may vary. Not sold in stateprohibed by law, etc. etc. etc. IMHO and all that. Don Burns from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Jan 10 14:43:01 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses I once owned a restaurant and what I did was form a corp sub chapter Swhich is a corp that owns nothing and must pay out all monies earned inexpenses and wages. I leased all of the equipment to the corp and paidmyself to work for it, which allowed me to collect unemployment on myself when I changed business. This is the least taxed form of privatebusiness that I could find in that it paid no corp taxes to speak of andeverything was a write off. I also allowed me to get a tax number andbuy everything wholesale.----------From: Johnny Johnson[SMTP:jjohnso4@bellsouth.net] Sent: Saturday, January 10, 1998 9:37 AM Subject: Re: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses At 10:08 AM 1/8/98 -0500, Robert S Williams wrote: Now that the tax season is upon us, I thought I'd inquire as to thetreatment of part-time cane rodmaking as business and the opportunitytoexpense/depreciate my investment in the equipment as businessexpenseson my taxes. I had aspirations to build cane rods in 1997 andaccumulated all the equipment necessary to do so but due to anexcessivework load in my everyday job I was unable to do so. My plans are nowtobegin building in 1998. I thought that maybe some of you have faced the situation ofexpensingequipment and other related expenses as part of your taxes in thepast. Any thoughts before I contact my tax accountant. Robert, I'm not sure where you're heading with your question but -- You can only write off business expense against business income. Youcan'twrite off the cost of the equipment against income earned from othersources in '97. You can, however, carry the expenses forward tofutureyears when you do have rod sales. Later,Johnny------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Jan 10 21:23:02 1998 Subject: Test - no need to read Testing - my server was down the other day - is it down again? from djflyfsh@thegrid.net Sat Jan 10 21:58:18 1998 Subject: Newcomer Hello. My name is David Johnson and I live in Lindsay, California. For anywho know about Buz Buszek, this town was Buz's birthplace and childhoodhome. I am very interested in learning how to build bamboo flyrods. I grew upwith one in my hand, and the thought of building a rod really appeals tome. I have become a pretty good fly-tier, but the problem is, after youhave tied A thousand dollar's worth of the things, you begin to feel guiltyabout investing in any more chicken necks until you really need them. So Ineed another hobby, and building rods seems to be just right. Now all Ihave to do is learn how. from scratch. I hope some of you will be willing to give me advice, because I want toinvest in books, tools, and materials wisely. I thought I would begin byrestoring that rod I mentioned earlier; it's in terrible shape, butsalvagable. I rescued it just before the person who had it was going tothrow it away. It is an old Pfleuger and needs a new grip, reel seat,ferrules, and guides. The finish is still intact-- I mean there are no barespots--,but the tip is warped pretty badly. I ordered a video from Cabela's called "How To Refinish Bamboo Rods StepByStep," and I hope it will show me what I need to know. Given what I havetold you all, do you have any advice? I assure you it will be appreciated.Thank you. David Johnson from mrj@seanet.com Sat Jan 10 23:10:40 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10734 for Subject: Re: Andy Royer cane Daryll Whitehead looked at one of my rods a while ago. He was an awful lotof help. He let me know what I needed to fix in that what other peopleconsider important. He did not "pick my rod apart" but mainly told me astory about one time when he took some of his first (?) rods to a showbackeast and a Eastern collector took one look and rattled off about a halfdozen things wrong. I got the point. It was a lot of the stuff that youmentioned in your post a while ago. As you say, if you are going to sellrods, give em what they want. I am getting pretty close to getting a rod Iwill be happy to see on the market. What I need to do is to make all thewraps symmetrical and grind the guide feet to exactly the same length.Alsoa few other little things just need more special attention. When I readyouroriginal post I thought of the conversation I had with Daryll Whitehead andthat this was very good information for you. These are really little things.Hopefully this up and coming rod of mine will show that in it.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Andy Royer cane In a message dated 1/10/98 8:52:07 AM Pacific Standard Time,mrj@seanet.comwrites: I was asked by a person to makethem one and it will be a challenge to build one that I feel is goodenoughto sell. Good Luck Try finding a collector of bamboo rods and have him critique your rods.It is an eye opening experience. On the other hand, if you have anego that is easily bruised, don't do it. I had a collector look at my rods, and I was encouraged by his appraisal.He critiqued my No.12 rod and named a price that was a little higherthan I would have sold it for. Darryl Hayashida from channer@frontier.net Sun Jan 11 01:22:58 1998 Subject: Andy Royers cane Martin,Darryl,et al;I guess I probably should have introduced myself and explained that I havebuilt six rods so farin the past 14 months, tho I have been reading,studying and refinishing old rods for about 5 years. I am a carpenter bytrade and a woodworker by inclination.I especially enjoy intricate finishwork and have been fortuneate enough to have been allowed to work onsomevery nice homes.I promised myself when I joined the list that I would readall the archives before asking any redundant questions, but now that I;monline at home, I find that I can only get about the first week of themonth before my computer tells me it can't find the address.I hope tofigure this out soon.Last fall I sent my third rod to a dealer and I was very pleased andencouraged by his response, as per Darryl's experience, he also listed it the fly shops here in town. The main reason I asked about the quality ofAndy's cane is that this rod is made fron the best strips of the best culmI have bought so far.Out of six culms from the Demarests and five from agentleman on the west coast[not Tuxedo, I never was able to get ahold ofthem} these have been the only 18 strips without spots or slash marks. Ihave not used any of Andy's yet, but judging by surface blemishes anddepthof fiber, it looks to be be better than the rest of the cane I've got. Iwould just like to know what good cane should look like and how much ofitI can expect to pick thru to get a blond rod. I would like to be able tobuy this stuff by the railroad car, but I can't afford it, but I am willingto pay whatever exra it takes to get a few good culms at a time.Thanks for your help and you patience with a newcomer. John Channer from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Jan 11 08:10:17 1998 Subject: Grayling Is there a get together this year? If so when? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Jan 11 09:23:24 1998 Subject: Re: see ya soon.... In a message dated 98-01-09 08:07:59 EST, you write: Hello all, I'm about to send my unsub, I'll be in touch when I'm settled. Don't come up with anything earth shattering until I get back ; ) Tom Ausfeld >> Tom - Hope you are not gone long. Please do keep in touch.Best Regards,Richard Tyree from mrj@seanet.com Sun Jan 11 11:05:06 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25696 for Subject: Re: Andy Royers cane I don't think you will have any trouble getting a blond rod out of Andyscane. The water spots appear to be only on the surface. When I Got the caneall of it had water spots. After several months in my warm basement mostofthe spots appear to be gone. I wiped off the mold as soon as I got thestuff. How deep the mold is, I don't know. I sure hope it did not go intothe fiber. I will probably check a little later today. I did not experiencethe problems with water spots on my cane from Demarest. Maybe I wasluckybut the difference between Andys and the Demarest cane showed me thattheDemarest cane was first rate. My method of building/learning is that I ampicking the absolute worst culm for my next rod, figuring that as I getbetter I will know how to build a better rod and at that time I will havethe prime cane to work with. This means that when I have been looking atmystack my eyes are on the worst not the best. (To be honest on my last rod Ijust went over and picked up the first culm I came to) It is worth notingthat so far I have not found any bamboo that I would not build a rod with. Idon't know enough about the properties of bamboo to really state anyquantitative judgements about the cane. I don't know if the Royer canewillbuild a softer rod or what. Personally I doubt it. My gut feeling is thatthe finished rod will be the same regardless of which stuff I use. I dothink that natural drying will affect the action though and this is wheremyDemarest cane has a head start by a couple of years or so. Will talk morewhen I look over my bundle of bamboo later today. I have to check for snownow (G)-----Original Message----- Subject: Andy Royers cane Martin,Darryl,et al;I guess I probably should have introduced myself and explained that I havebuilt six rods so farin the past 14 months, tho I have been reading,studying and refinishing old rods for about 5 years. I am a carpenter bytrade and a woodworker by inclination.I especially enjoy intricate finishwork and have been fortuneate enough to have been allowed to work onsomevery nice homes.I promised myself when I joined the list that I wouldreadall the archives before asking any redundant questions, but now that I;monline at home, I find that I can only get about the first week of themonth before my computer tells me it can't find the address.I hope tofigure this out soon.Last fall I sent my third rod to a dealer and I was very pleased andencouraged by his response, as per Darryl's experience, he also listed it the fly shops here in town. The main reason I asked about the quality ofAndy's cane is that this rod is made fron the best strips of the best culmI have bought so far.Out of six culms from the Demarests and five from agentleman on the west coast[not Tuxedo, I never was able to get ahold ofthem} these have been the only 18 strips without spots or slash marks. Ihave not used any of Andy's yet, but judging by surface blemishes anddepthof fiber, it looks to be be better than the rest of the cane I've got. Iwould just like to know what good cane should look like and how much ofitI can expect to pick thru to get a blond rod. I would like to be able tobuy this stuff by the railroad car, but I can't afford it, but I am willingto pay whatever exra it takes to get a few good culms at a time.Thanks for your help and you patience with a newcomer. John Channer from harry37@epix.net Sun Jan 11 11:18:56 1998 MAA18716 Subject: Re: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Robert,.......If you use part of your house for your business, it must be exclusive tothe business to be written off. You can depreciate that part of yourhome, BUT then when you sell the house - your cost of purcahse isreduced by the amount that you've depreciated from the business portionof the house. I've never found that the benefits out way the paperworkto keep track of this and all the other BS involved to maintain therecords.$.02 more... Everything you read about how to avoid audits talks about home officedeductions--they're a big flag, and I'm told it's one of the biggestaudit triggers that the IRS uses. As Don said, the paperwork is a real headache, so you really have toweigh whether it's worth all the hassle.. Greg Kuntz from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Jan 11 11:29:55 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses I think the best advice I've read so far is get the advice of a taxprofessional. Don't rely on the opinions expressed here for taxadvice. We can't even agree on how to build a fish pole! Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 11 12:00:06 1998 Subject: Re: Andy Royers cane In a message dated 1/10/98 11:36:08 PM Pacific Standard Time,channer@frontier.net writes: Out of six culms from the Demarests and five from agentleman on the west coast[not Tuxedo, I never was able to get aholdofthem} these have been the only 18 strips without spots or slash marks. Ihave not used any of Andy's yet, but judging by surface blemishes anddepthof fiber, it looks to be be better than the rest of the cane I've got. The cane that I bought from Demarest 3 years ago, in every case has powerfibers at least twice as thick as the Royer cane I bought. The Royer canedoes not have the growers marks as the Demarest cane does, but whenI scrape the outside of the Demarest cane far enough to get rid of thegrowers mark, it still has more power fibers than the Royer cane evenstarts out with. I suppose if you approach it from an appearance point of view theRoyer cane is marginally better, but if you are making a rod forperformance (casting, landing a bigger fish, not breaking) thenof the cane I have, the Demarest cane wins hands down. I don't know what more recent Demarest cane looks like, but if it isas good as I got three years ago I am going to buy as much as Ican afford and put it away for later. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Jan 11 14:39:41 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Newcomer check out htttp://HOME1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm has all theinformation you asked about and look through the archives-tons of usefulinformation. ----------From: djflyfsh@thegrid.net[SMTP:djflyfsh@thegrid.net] Sent: Saturday, January 10, 1998 7:58 PM Subject: Newcomer Hello. My name is David Johnson and I live in Lindsay, California. Foranywho know about Buz Buszek, this town was Buz's birthplace andchildhoodhome. I am very interested in learning how to build bamboo flyrods. I grewupwith one in my hand, and the thought of building a rod really appealstome. I have become a pretty good fly-tier, but the problem is, afteryouhave tied A thousand dollar's worth of the things, you begin to feelguiltyabout investing in any more chicken necks until you really need them.So Ineed another hobby, and building rods seems to be just right. Now allIhave to do is learn how. from scratch. I hope some of you will be willing to give me advice, because I wanttoinvest in books, tools, and materials wisely. I thought I would beginbyrestoring that rod I mentioned earlier; it's in terrible shape, butsalvagable. I rescued it just before the person who had it was goingtothrow it away. It is an old Pfleuger and needs a new grip, reel seat,ferrules, and guides. The finish is still intact-- I mean there are nobarespots--,but the tip is warped pretty badly. I ordered a video from Cabela's called "How To Refinish Bamboo RodsStep ByStep," and I hope it will show me what I need to know. Given what Ihavetold you all, do you have any advice? I assure you it will beappreciated.Thank you. David Johnson from djflyfsh@thegrid.net Sun Jan 11 14:59:26 1998 Subject: RE: Newcomer check out htttp://HOME1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm has all theinformation you asked about and look through the archives-tons of usefulinformation. ----------Thanks, Pat. I will. Dave Johnson from djflyfsh@thegrid.net Sun Jan 11 18:20:52 1998 Subject: Montague ocean rod I bought a cane rod recently at an antique sale for ten dollars with the intent of restoring it. It seems to be rather old, and has been re-wrapped as well as being varnished. Neither operations were carried out by a person who was concerned with anything but a strictly functional job.The cane is almost arrow-straight, clear, and seems to be in good condition underneath the yellowed varnish. There is part of a decal next to the butt which only has a few letters on it. They are MONTA on the top of the decal and SHK on the bottom. Could this have once said MONTAGUE FISHKING? If so, is it valuable? I am not expert in the field of collecting cane rods, but have always liked to fish them and want to further that pleasure by beginning to collect, restore, and build them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Dave Johnson from channer@frontier.net Sun Jan 11 18:52:55 1998 Subject: cane Darryl and Martin;Thanks for your info. I went out and looked at my Royer cane again and Itlooks like I've got 3ormaybe 4 5wts. and 2 or possibly 3 3wts. and theother 5 probably wont be usefull at all. On rods I make for myself Icouldn't care less about any kind of marks , my first rod, an 8' 5wtGarrison , has spots and growers marks on it and I've used it hard forabout a yearwithou any problems.However, I have three friends that wantmeto make rods for them and I would like to use nice looking as well asstructurally sound cane for them. In all fairness to the Demarests, myfirst order I told them that I was just starting and didn"t really need thebest that they had. My second order I placed as they were having problemswith mold and Mrs. Demarest said she would send the best that theyhad.Thebatch from California was the real disappointment because I asked themanto send me cane that he would use for blonde rods for his own customers,which he said he would do.Not only does it have many water spots aftersanding, the last blank I tried to make from it has has grey spots clearinto the pith, much the same as spalted maple or pine. In fact, I thoughtthat this was no more harmfull than in wood. I did do some flexion testsonit in my own rather unscientific way and the strips that I bent untilbreaking didn't break at the grey spots. Now I know how weak these areasreally are, thanks to Wayne C and his devotion to the craft.I guess when all is said and done, I'll have to flame my rods or tellanyone that wants one blonde that the water spots come with theterritory.When I have the need or the money I'll try Demarests again.Thanks again and many thanks to Wayne and everyone else for sharing theirhard won knowledge with all us aspiring makers. John Channer from gwr@seanet.com Sun Jan 11 19:04:26 1998 RAA12392 for ; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 17:04:22 Subject: Re: Montague ocean rod Dave, I took look through Homel's book for you. Montague seems to havemade at least two "Fishkill" rods. One a 9' (3/2) fly/cast combo with areversible handle and the second a 5 1/2' (2/1) casting rod with afingerhook seat. Regardless, in the condition you describe, your rod isprobably worth about $5.00 more than you paid for it. Mint restored wouldskyrocket the value to the sub $90.00 range. An excellent practice rod. Ifyou haven't, you should get a copy of Sinclair's restoration manual. Have fun, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rods At 04:23 PM 1/11/98, you wrote:I bought a cane rod recently at an antique sale for ten dollars with the intent of restoring it. It seems to be rather old, and has been re-wrapped as well as being varnished. Neither operations were carried out by a person who was concerned with anything but a strictly functional job.The cane is almost arrow-straight, clear, and seems to be in good condition underneath the yellowed varnish. There is part of a decal next to the butt which only has a few letters on it. They are MONTA on the top of the decal and SHK on the bottom. Could this have once said MONTAGUE FISHKING? If so, is it valuable? I am not expert in the field of collecting cane rods, but have always liked to fish them and want to further that pleasure by beginning to collect, restore, and build them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Dave Johnson from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Jan 11 19:11:26 1998 Mon, 12 Jan 1998 09:11:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses On Sun, 11 Jan 1998, Greg Kuntz wrote: flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Robert,.......If you use part of your house for your business, it must be exclusive tothe business to be written off. You can depreciate that part of yourhome, BUT then when you sell the house - your cost of purcahse isreduced by the amount that you've depreciated from the businessportionof the house. I've never found that the benefits out way the paperworkto keep track of this and all the other BS involved to maintain therecords.$.02 more... Everything you read about how to avoid audits talks about home officedeductions--they're a big flag, and I'm told it's one of the biggestaudit triggers that the IRS uses. As Don said, the paperwork is a real headache, so you really have toweigh whether it's worth all the hassle.. Greg Kuntz CASH IS KING! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sun Jan 11 19:12:09 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Needed wdube@ebmail.gdeb.com wrote: Help! I need a single 15/64 inch Super Z male ferrule. I've tried to reachBailey Wood at (802) 888-7859, but received a recording saying that thenumber is not in service. Can anyone supply me with the ferrule or knowwhere to get one? Many thanks, Wayne (not the famous one) Try E. Hille in PA. You may have to buy the entire ferrule but they haveSuper Z's from d_price@global2000.net Sun Jan 11 19:37:19 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id UAA28107 for; Sun, 11 Jan 1998 20:37:12 -0500 Subject: Re: cane john channer wrote: Darryl and Martin;Thanks for your info. I went out and looked at my Royer cane again and Itlooks like I've got 3ormaybe 4 5wts. and 2 or possibly 3 3wts. and theother 5 probably wont be usefull at all. CLIPIn all fairness to the Demarests, myfirst order I told them that I was just starting and didn"t really need thebest that they had. My second order I placed as they were havingproblemswith mold and Mrs. Demarest said she would send the best that theyhad.Thebatch from California was the real disappointment because I asked themanto send me cane that he would use for blonde rods for his owncustomers,which he said he would do.Not only does it have many water spots aftersanding, the last blank I tried to make from it has has grey spots clearinto the pith, much the same as spalted maple or pine. CLIPWhen I have the need or the money I'll try Demarests again.Thanks again and many thanks to Wayne and everyone else for sharingtheirhard won knowledge with all us aspiring makers. John Channer Hi all,I'm new to the list and new to cane building(rod building for 25 years)and I'm about to try to purchase cane. I just moved from N.J back to theSaratoga N.Y. area and I'm planning to get in touch with the Demareststhat I beleave sell out of an area that I pass by when I go to N.J. toget stuff from my house down there.I hope that I can stop in and getwhat I need.After hearing these stories I'm not shure what to do at thispoint and any advice would be more than welcome. I don't have any good books on the subject at the moment(unemployed andtight on cash)but I am a machinist and master woodworker, and havelearned a little from this great information source(internet). But acouple of quick questions come to mind?Do you stagger the nodes so they aren't in one place?Heat treatment-how hot, how long?these have probably been covered before but there is so much to searchin the archives and I have to move on purchasing cane real soon(takingtrip to N.J. within the week)and atleast one of the questions will afectthat.Thanks for any help you can give!!!!!(a thousand times over)Dave Price from djflyfsh@thegrid.net Sun Jan 11 19:44:36 1998 Subject: Re: Montague ocean rod On 1/11 you wrote: Dave, I took look through Homel's book for you. Thanks for taking the time to look that up, Russ. As you say, it will makea great practice rod for me to begin learning the art of bamboorestoration. And if I do a decent job, I'll probably fish with it. Again,thanks. Dave Johnson from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 11 19:52:54 1998 Subject: Re: Silk thread and Heddon reel seats OK all you guys who asked about silk thread and the ones who asked aboutHeddon reel seats here goes. I went to the Midwest Fly Show today andtalkedto some people about these subjects. For silk thread contact Grahame E.Maisey at Belvoirdale 215-886-7211 or FAX 215-886-1804 orhttp://www.belvoirdale.com.He had some great looking silk 5 yd. spools for $ 5.00 and 10 yd. spools for$10.00 he had solid colors as well as varigated colors. 3105he said he had quite a few real seats lying around left over from makingbantyrods. I have not heard from friend in Phoenix yet on what he has in silktread. from WDHCJL@aol.com Sun Jan 11 19:53:25 1998 Subject: Re: Andy Royers cane A simple question...Given thier years that have been put into building arelationship with the growers, if the Demarests can't get cooperation ingetting the best cane, who can? In fact, given the years in the business, ifthe Dems. can't judge quality bamboo, who can? They have been dedicatedto usthe rodmakers! I may not be correct, but as I understand it, the rodmakerscane is the only portion of the business they kept. They care aboutrodmakers, and have integrity! from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Jan 11 20:15:59 1998 Subject: Re: Andy Royers cane I haven't seen any of Mr. Royer's bamboo, but I seem to remember himgoing through a lot of effort for something that was sort of outside hisregular field of commerce. I'm sure that the Demarest family and thecompany they spun off of years ago had problems at the start, and aslast year shows, when dealing in agricultural products problems alwayscrop up (I wonder how much moldy grain gets dumped, even after spendinglots of money to dry it?) I hope that if you bought cane that was lessthan satisfactory you told him so and exactly what you didn't like andwhat your requirements are.I like the thought of more than one tonkin importer, but as in allbusinesses, they will have to survive or fail on their product'sreputation. If Mr. Royer is serious about fly rod bamboo, then he'll dobetter next time. If not he'll get out of the business.I've heard some makers worry that if the Chinese get by selling junkcane to the US the Demarest's trouble getting good quality willincrease. I hope that this isn't the case and that the growers andtheir government appreciate the relationship they have with the Demarestfamily, and will continue to provide them with what we require.But like Sir D., I'm planning to put by a few sticks against futureshortages. Just good sense.Wish I could just shut up and plane rods. Garrison would never havebuilt half as many rods if he had the internet to play on. Brian from OsageCane@aol.com Sun Jan 11 20:25:31 1998 Subject: National Casein DR Powdered Resin I've just purchased a Urea Formaldehyde glue from Paxtons Woodcrafers.My question is has anyone ever used this particular brand of uf glueNationalCasein DR powdered Resin? If so what is the mixture, and how does itcompareto Urac. I'm a first rod builder and Paxtons is very excessable. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Jan 11 21:12:43 1998 Subject: Re: Montague ocean rod - not Dave, Most Fishkill's are fly rods. They are also in the higher-end of whatMontague turned out. Nickel-silver ferrules and their best reelseats. Ihave a 2 piece 7'6" Fishkill that is a nice rod. BUT Montague mademostly 9' rods which are dogs in today's market. A near-mint 9' Fishkillis worth $175 or so. The 7'6" model with 2 tips is worth a lot more to acollector. (me) Take a look at the Classic Angler URL (do a Yahoo search) and look fortheir Montague value page. Don Burns RO>Dave, RO> I took look through Homel's book for you. Montague seems to haveRO>made at least two "Fishkill" rods. One a 9' (3/2) fly/cast combo with aRO>reversible handle and the second a 5 1/2' (2/1) casting rod with aRO>fingerhook seat. Regardless, in the condition you describe, your rod isRO>probably worth about $5.00 more than you paid for it. Mint restoredwouldRO>skyrocket the value to the sub $90.00 range. An excellent practice rod. IfRO>you haven't, you should get a copy of Sinclair's restoration manual. RO>Have fun, RO>Russ GoodingRO>Golden Witch Rods RO>At 04:23 PM 1/11/98, you wrote:RO>>I bought a cane rod recently at an antique sale for ten dollars with theRO>>intent of restoring it. It seems to be rather old, and has beenRO>>re-wrapped as well as being varnished. Neither operations werecarriedRO>>out by a person who was concerned with anything but a strictlyRO>>functional job.The cane is almost arrow-straight, clear, and seems tobeRO>>in good condition underneath the yellowed varnish. There is part of aRO>>decal next to the butt which only has a few letters on it. They areRO>>MONTA on the top of the decal and SHK on the bottom. Could this haveRO>>once said MONTAGUE FISHKING? If so, is it valuable? I am not expertinRO>>the field of collecting cane rods, but have always liked to fish themRO>>and want to further that pleasure by beginning to collect, restore, andRO>>build them. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.RO>>RO>>Dave JohnsonRO>>RO>>RO>>RO>>RO>> from mrj@seanet.com Sun Jan 11 21:12:44 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17254 for Subject: Re: cane -----Original Message----- Subject: cane I understand that concern. The rod I am building actually has no watermarkson it but it is going to be flamed anyway on request. ...However, I have three friends that want meto make rods for them and I would like to use nice looking as well asstructurally sound cane for them. .... from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Jan 11 21:47:41 1998 Subject: Re: Montague ocean rod - not RO>Dave, RO>Most Fishkill's are fly rods. They are also in the higher-end of whatRO>Montague turned out. Nickel-silver ferrules and their best reelseats. IRO>have a 2 piece 7'6" Fishkill that is a nice rod. BUT Montague madeRO>mostly 9' rods which are dogs in today's market. A near-mint 9'FishkillRO>is worth $175 or so. The 7'6" model with 2 tips is worth a lot more toaRO>collector. (me) RO>Take a look at the Classic Angler URL (do a Yahoo search) and look forRO>their Montague value page. RO>Don Burns I forgot to include that there are several ocean versions of theFishkill too. Trolling rods etc. These are worth little even in mintcondition. Don Burns from djflyfsh@thegrid.net Sun Jan 11 21:56:15 1998 Subject: Re: Montague ocean rod - not Don, This rod is one piece with a two-piece handle. The one-piece cane partmeasures six feet and has a wooden cross-hatched piece with a huge malemetal ferrule on the butt end. The diameter of the cane at the butt-end isabout 5/8". The tip top measures about 1/4".The other part of the woodenhandle which has the female part of that metal ferrule mounted to it is18"long and has a 1 1/2" rubber butt cap. The tip top used to have a pullywheel, but somewhere along the line it was lost. If this is a fly rod, Iwant to meet the person who can cast it. Dave Johnson from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Jan 11 21:57:54 1998 Subject: Re: Silk thread and Heddon reel seats RO>OK all you guys who asked about silk thread and the ones who askedaboutRO>Heddon reel seats here goes. I went to the Midwest Fly Show today andtalkeRO>to some people about these subjects. For silk thread contact GrahameE.RO>Maisey at Belvoirdale 215-886-7211 or FAX 215-886- 1804 orRO>http://www.belvoirdale.com.RO>He had some great looking silk 5 yd. spools for $ 5.00 and 10 yd. spoolsforRO>10.00 he had solid colors as well as varigated colors.RO>For you guys for the Heddon real seats contact Jack M. Hires at 219-462-3105RO>he said he had quite a few real seats lying around left over frommaking banRO>rods. I have not heard from friend in Phoenix yet on what he has in silkRO>tread. I requested the reelseats - so thanks. I already have purchased silk thread from Belvoirdale and it's nicestuff. Angler's Workshop sells a good selection of silk thread too - butthey have no jasper (two color) silk threads in their line. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com from djflyfsh@thegrid.net Sun Jan 11 22:07:41 1998 Subject: Re: Montague ocean rod - not You wrote:I forgot to include that there are several ocean versions of theFishkill too. Trolling rods etc. These are worth little even in mintcondition. Don Burns Yes, it's an ocean rod. If it's not, I'd like to meet the man who can cast5wt line with it. And it's just my luck that it's not worth much. However,I bought it because I liked its looks. One of my professors told me onetime that if you buy art for an investment, most of the time you will bedisappointed. However, if you buy a piece of art because you like it, youwill be overjoyed. Dave Johnson from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Jan 12 09:27:10 1998 Subject: Re: Montague ocean rod - not RO>Don, RO>This rod is one piece with a two-piece handle. The one-piece cane partRO>measures six feet and has a wooden cross-hatched piece with a hugemaleRO>metal ferrule on the butt end. The diameter of the cane at the butt-endisRO>about 5/8". The tip top measures about 1/4".The other part of thewoodenRO>handle which has the female part of that metal ferrule mounted to it is18"RO>long and has a 1 1/2" rubber butt cap. The tip top used to have a pullyRO>wheel, but somewhere along the line it was lost. If this is a fly rod, IRO>want to meet the person who can cast it. RO>Dave Johnson I think that's a 30 wt fly rod. Very rare. The Fishkill weakfish rod has an 18" butt - but has a chrome butt plateand was only 5 1/4' long; the Fishkill "one-piece" boat rod had a rubberbutt cap, but the grip is listed as 20" long and was available in 6.5'or 7.5' lengths. These are the 2 rods in my catalog that seem to fitbest with your rod's discription. None of the rods in my catalog had a roller tiptop from the factory. Tryto buy a reproduction Montague catalog from Classic Angler if you wantmore rod details. I might have a tiptop that might be made to fit somehow - I.D. is 0.185"and it is a NS reinforced (has support 2 ribs) agateen top. Email me offlist if interested. Doesn't matter much what you do with the rod - the rod is best used formartial arts practice. Has no value in today's rod market. Irecently tried to swap my mint (never fished) "Cruiser" weakfish oceanrod to Len Codella (has rod list) with some other stuff - he didn't evenwant to see it. (: from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Mon Jan 12 10:19:49 1998 CST Subject: Re: Grayling Steve Seez... Is there a get together this year? If so when? Yep! Definitely!!! "Rodmakers At Greyrock" and "Trout Bum Barbeque"traditionally takes place the weekend before Father's Day. So I guessthat would make it Friday, June 12th, Saturday, the 13th this year, andwinding down on Sunday...is that right, Wayne, Steve??? But, be forewarned, those are the "official" dates. Unofficially, folks start showing up as early as the preceding Monday. Lots of good rodmaking, fishing, fun, food, homebrew, single malt, and ofcourse, good friends. Don't miss it... Mike - rodmakingfishingfunfoodhomebrewsinglemalt - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 12 10:54:35 1998 Tue, 13 Jan 1998 00:53:42 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: APB on Darryl Hyashida Darryl,Ron Barch is wanting to contact you, I think he still has your old email address. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon Jan 12 12:18:30 1998 Subject: Risp: Ferrule Needed Dear Mr.Barnes I am an Italian hobby rodmaker, and I am to interested were it's possibleto find the Super Z original ferrule.Please, send by E-mail the compleate addrees of source of Super Z ferrule.Sincerely,Marco Boretti. m.boretti@agonet.it ----------Da: George W. Barnes A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: lunedá 12 gennaio 1998 5.06 wdube@ebmail.gdeb.com wrote: Help! I need a single 15/64 inch Super Z male ferrule. I've tried to reachBailey Wood at (802) 888-7859, but received a recording saying thatthenumber is not in service. Can anyone supply me with the ferrule orknowwhere to get one? Many thanks, Wayne (not the famous one) Try E. Hille in PA. You may have to buy the entire ferrule but they haveSuper Z's from WDHCJL@aol.com Mon Jan 12 12:34:44 1998 Subject: Re: Grayling Stand corrected (in a friendly way of course). The Grayrock "Gathering" isthe weekend AFTER fathers day. That would be what...the 26 & 27? Ofcoursethose are the "official" dates only (bring note from mom in order to comeforthe Real Get-ta-gether!).doug from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Jan 12 13:01:24 1998 Subject: Re: Grayling The ever watchful Doug seez... Stand corrected (in a friendly way of course). The Grayrock "Gathering"isthe weekend AFTER fathers day. That would be what...the 26 & 27? Ofcoursethose are the "official" dates only (bring note from mom in order to comeforthe Real Get-ta-gether!). Major OOPS there, thanks Doug!!! Mike - still recovering from last year - BiondoSt. Louis, MO from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jan 12 13:03:45 1998 Subject: Re: APB on Darryl Hyashida In a message dated 1/12/98 9:02:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au writes: Darryl,Ron Barch is wanting to contact you, I think he still has your old email address. I don't have Ron's new address....Darryl from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jan 12 13:08:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Grayling About Grayrock, isn't this by invite only? I was invited last year but couldnot make it because of other obligations. I hope to make it this yearthoughso I am already planning some time off about then. Please post to list ifthis is open to anyone. Thanks. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Jan 12 13:48:11 1998 Subject: Re: Re: APB on Darryl Hyashida Darryl,I talked to ron on the phone thursday last his phone # is 616-945- 2329 from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jan 12 14:38:39 1998 Subject: Re: Grayling Boy! - You leave for a few days and thing get real busy on the list -Grayrock is open to ANYONE who wishes to attend - Officially it is fridayandsaturday June 26 - 27 - unofficially it starts June 19 - this allows thosethat want to come early to fish or work on rod to do so. Some of the talksofar is that a group want to trek to the Jordan for an overnighter and thatthere needs to be more workspace for those wanting to work on rods -There areseveral folks that have offered to pitch in to help with betterorginazation(what's that???). interests - Many of the group have attended for several years and are moregeared at trying NOT to loose Mr. Brook trout at the boat as happened lasttime. Time is always a problem - there is never enough - a list ofsuggestions Ihave talked to Harold and Eileen about shipping a few bundles of bamboo inforthose wanting to pick it up there (that would save the handling andshippingcharges) - here again knowing the interest ahead of time would help. In the past there has always been a reluctance in getting information ofwhat folks wanted to learn or see or do while they are at the get together- the group is made up of very friendly folks - willing to help in any waythatthey can - but we can't read your minds - Please - if you are planning onattending let us know the things that you want to do and see - otherwisewe'lljust be hanging out at the Clubhouse talking about and casting rods -samplinga few beers - and going fishing.And bring wildly patterned shirts to wear. from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Jan 12 16:57:22 1998 Subject: Bamboo rod mag. What was the cut-off date that we were supposed to wait to occur forbefore reentering subscription information? Don Burns PS - Anyone else think their new pop-up ad is really tacky? from gwbarnes@gwi.net Mon Jan 12 18:01:10 1998 Subject: Re: Risp: Ferrule Needed Boretti Marco wrote: Dear Mr.BarnesI am an Italian hobby rodmaker, and I am to interested were it's possibleto find the Super Z original ferrule.Please, send by E-mail the compleate addrees of source of Super Zferrule.Sincerely,Marco Boretti. m.boretti@agonet.it ----------Da: George W. Barnes A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: lunedá 12 gennaio 1998 5.06 wdube@ebmail.gdeb.com wrote: Help! I need a single 15/64 inch Super Z male ferrule. I've tried to reachBailey Wood at (802) 888-7859, but received a recording saying thatthenumber is not in service. Can anyone supply me with the ferrule orknowwhere to get one? Many thanks, Wayne (not the famous one) Try E. Hille in PA. You may have to buy the entire ferrule but they haveSuper Z's E Hille CompanyAngler's Supply House815 Railway StreetWilliamsport, PA 17701USAFax 1(717)323-9995 from nicksco@fia.net Mon Jan 12 18:15:17 1998 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA09269 for Subject: Re: Bamboo rod mag. flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: What was the cut-off date that we were supposed to wait to occur forbefore reentering subscription information? Don Burns PS - Anyone else think their new pop-up ad is really tacky?Sunday 1-11-98, I haven't heard ether! from josephine.cook@stonebow.otago.ac.nz Mon Jan 12 18:19:31 1998 13:19:18 +1300 (NZDT) I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stop it??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of them arefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosie from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Jan 12 18:30:09 1998 Subject: Re: At 13:23 13/01/98 +1200, you wrote:I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stop it??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of them arefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosie Josie, Gee, what happens when you REALLY get mad? + I hope your mommy is pleased with your language. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Jan 12 18:48:45 1998 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA008932368; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 16:46:08 -0800 Subject: RE: Potty Mouth To signoff from the list, email to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu with the following request: signoff RODMAKERSorunsubscribe RODMAKERS from jczimny@dol.net Mon Jan 12 18:57:34 1998 Subject: Re: Josephine Cook wrote: I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stop it??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of them arefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosieNice Language! I can see where this person has been raised.John Zimny from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 12 19:01:45 1998 Tue, 13 Jan 1998 09:01:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: your mail On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Josephine Cook wrote: I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stop it??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of them arefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosie Dear, dear, dear me. Talk about shooting the messanger :-)))You sign on then object to the thing working. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 12 19:05:26 1998 UAA25645; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 20:05:05 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing away power fibers 598A9B7B7282A983FF407511" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 598A9B7B7282A983FF407511 George Perhaps you're right - but remember a glue line is about .001" wide. Notmuch of a disruption as compared to the width of a node. Also rememberthatthe density of the node is diferent than that of power fibers. So the speedoftransmission of energy down the rod during casting will change when thedensityof the material changes - hence why they argure about which nodestaggering pattern gives the best results. I have found nodeless rods are much "smoother" inaction than noded rods. Chris irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: Chris, I could believe that a glue-splice on 1/6 of the cross section of arod(nodeless construction) is less disruptive to the mechanical propertiesofthebamboo than a node is (I think that is what you said). But you aredefinitelybreaking (cutting) the continuity of 1/6 of all of the rod's fibers at eachsplice.If the glue at the splice did mechanically behave exactly the same as thebamboo,then we're all wasting our time -- just make a mold of a rod and turn outrods George ----------From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: Planing away power fibersDate: Wednesday, January 07, 1998 6:08 PM George Not really - I look at this way - you have established continuityof the power fibers - by cuting out those $#@%$#&^&** nodes. Thinkaboutit! Chris At 08:28 PM 1/6/98 -0800, you wrote:You've definitely lost continuity of the power fibers (too) if you buildnodeless. George Bourke ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Planing away power fibersDate: Monday, January 05, 1998 10:30 PM In a message dated 98-01-06 00:36:42 EST, you write: I'm finding if the culm has deep power fibers and nodiscernablevariation in density through the planed strip planing the outerfibersdoesnot seem to hurt the rod (I know this is heresy ). Of course youlosecontinuity of fibers the length of the rod but if you have nodesyou'velostcontinuity anyway. That's my feeling also. I think for most culms, given good depth ofpower fibers, the enamel side can be planed or scraped away to a fairlydeep depth. Past most water marks and surface blemishes, which wouldleaveus with very nice evenly colored bamboo rods. I'm beginning tobelievethis is why Orvis and Winston have such cosmetically perfectbambooin their rods. Darryl Hayashida --------------598A9B7B7282A983FF407511 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------598A9B7B7282A983FF407511-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Jan 12 19:08:21 1998 Subject: Re: I'm telling yo' mama. 3015 messages and still counting. If you'd asked nicely - I'd tell youhow to sign-off of a list-serv. from nicksco@fia.net Mon Jan 12 19:19:45 1998 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18686 for Subject: Re: your mail Tony Young wrote: On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Josephine Cook wrote: I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stopit??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of themarefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosie Dear, dear, dear me. Talk about shooting the messanger :-)))You sign on then object to the thing working.Tony is that one from downunder? How did she get on the list, I wroteher back and the mail was not delivered. Maybe she changed address, orsomething from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Mon Jan 12 19:24:54 1998 mailfep1-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Josephine Cook wrote: I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired of getting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stopit??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of themarefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosie Josie: Don't listen to those other guys, we really love it when you talk dirty-- Reminds me of my days in Uncle Sams Navy! Joe Loverti from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 12 20:00:08 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Grayling Mike,If you get there on or before the 12th you will be early ! (by 14 days) . Youmight get Wayne to take you up on his favorite stream.etc., etc. I believetheofficial dates are the 26th and 27th.Hank(not early a bird)Woolman. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 12 20:11:41 1998 Subject: Re: Re: your mail Tony,et alI assume Josie is a kiwi and is acting like a cattleman who has justfound10,000sheep on 10 sections of his best range-now here in the revoltingcolonies the name Josie is generally female but you commonwealth folkshavestrange ways :-).Hank. from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jan 12 20:22:53 1998 Subject: Re: Grayling 114677C1D10B986F74842DC5" --------------114677C1D10B986F74842DC5 the group is made up of very friendly folks - willing to help in any waythatthey can It's true. I personally helped drink Biondo's very excellent home brew- and hope to help out again this year!Mike, better bring a spare cylinder, I won't have vacation timeavailable like last year so won't be there 'til Friday. Brian "Trust me, I'm here to help" Creek --------------114677C1D10B986F74842DC5 the group is made up of very friendly folks - willing to help in anyway thatthey can brew - and hope to help out again this year!Mike, better bring a spare cylinder, I won't have vacation timeavailablelike last year so won't be there 'til Friday. Brian "Trust me, I'm here to help" Creek --------------114677C1D10B986F74842DC5-- from josephine.cook@stonebow.otago.ac.nz Mon Jan 12 20:26:34 1998 (NZDT) Subject: Re: your mail Dear, dear, dear me. Talk about shooting the messanger :-)))You sign on then object to the thing working.Tony is that one from downunder? How did she get on the list, I wroteher back and the mail was not delivered. Maybe she changed address, orsomething Well I apologise for the language, but I didn't sign on in the first placeand if this is someones idea of a joke then rest assured I am not veryamused. I have not changed address, I did not sign on, I do not want to beon the list....and (in case you missed it) I would not have any idea as tohow I got onto the list. As for the crack about being from down under, I'll have you know that I amhalf german from josephine.cook@stonebow.otago.ac.nz Mon Jan 12 20:28:15 1998 (NZDT) Subject: Re: I'm telling yo' mama. 3015 messages and still counting. If you'd asked nicely - I'd tell youhow to sign-off of a list-serv. Please do!!...(grovel, grovel, beg, beg) from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jan 12 20:28:19 1998 Subject: Re: Bet she was raised on grits. ;^) from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jan 12 20:32:39 1998 Subject: Re: your mail Hank, Tony, etc.- But I understood that Kiwis were REALLY fond of sheep. Tis a lonelyplace.;>) Brian from nicksco@fia.net Mon Jan 12 20:41:35 1998 kinsey.fia.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA00215 for Subject: Re: your mail Josephine Cook wrote: Dear, dear, dear me. Talk about shooting the messanger :-)))You sign on then object to the thing working.Tony is that one from downunder? How did she get on the list, I wroteher back and the mail was not delivered. Maybe she changed address, orsomething Well I apologise for the language, but I didn't sign on in the first placeand if this is someones idea of a joke then rest assured I am not veryamused. I have not changed address, I did not sign on, I do not want to beon the list....and (in case you missed it) I would not have any idea as tohow I got onto the list. As for the crack about being from down under, I'll have you know that Iamhalf germanWhat's that got to do with were you are from? I'm english,german,scots, irish, dutch,and dog. I'm from Las Vegas!!! from lblan@provide.net Mon Jan 12 20:52:43 1998 Subject: Re: Not a chance....... Larry Blan Bet she was raised on grits. ;^) from d_price@global2000.net Mon Jan 12 21:02:19 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA05774 for; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 22:02:12 -0500 Subject: Re: cane Jerry Foster wrote: David The Demerest Cane at its worst is good stuff, unless ist's beenstraightened in the field..obvious darkened areas where it was heated..Ithink they sell as lettle as 3 culms at a time, but i don't think theylet you hand pick it yourself? call them before you drop by.The price per culm is better if you buy a bundle (20) but it's pricey.. Overall i guess you've gathered, cane is the cheapest part of theprocess.. Regards Jerry Foster PS Judging from your questions you need to buy Wayne's book, and the videois a great help to beginners also..(IMHO) Jerry, Judging from your answer to my two simple questions(buy WaynesBook) I should find a real mail-list on the subject!!!!!! from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Jan 12 21:07:29 1998 Subject: Re: -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: I'm telling yo' mama. 3015 messages and still counting. If you'd asked nicely - I'd tell youhow to sign-off of a list-serv. I sent 3000 of those 3015 back in Dec. Who are you other 15 guys? Excess bandwidth, Ted G. from MWillia484@aol.com Mon Jan 12 21:08:07 1998 Subject: Re: joisie, which half is german? from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Jan 12 21:37:14 1998 Subject: Re: cane -----Original Message----- Jerry Foster wrote: David The Demerest Cane at its worst is good stuff, unless ist's beenstraightened in the field..obviousJudging from your questions you need to buy Wayne's book, and the videois a great help to beginners also..(IMHO) Jerry, Judging from your answer to my two simple questions(buy WaynesBook) I should find a real mail-list on the subject!!!!!! David, David, David, Your questions do not have simple answers. Why are you in such a rush tobuy cane, anyway?If this list was wrong for you (and others), you would have received somecanned answer to your questions. And, these simple answers you desirewouldhave been useless! BTW, if you don't have time to read the archives, getWayne's book etc., you don't have time to make a cane rod. Take it easy if you can, Ted G. from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jan 12 21:37:14 1998 Subject: Re: your mail In a message dated 1/12/98 6:38:13 PM Pacific Standard Time,josephine.cook@stonebow.otago.ac.nz writes: Well I apologise for the language, but I didn't sign on in the first placeand if this is someones idea of a joke then rest assured I am not veryamused. I have not changed address, I did not sign on, I do not want tobeon the list....and (in case you missed it) I would not have any idea as tohow I got onto the list. Somebody should have signed her up on FF@. Then she would have had something to complain about! (Don't get in a lather if you are on FF@also. I'm talking number of posts, not content. They have over a hundreda day). Darryl Hayashida from russett@bcn.net Mon Jan 12 21:55:35 1998 adams.berk.net (8.8.7/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA23303 for Subject: disconnect pleasee I tried using the method as instructed and am unable to get my e mail delivered. So if you dont mind please disconnect me.. Thanks from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Jan 12 22:01:12 1998 Subject: To sign off To sign of this this list: 2) In the subject and main text body enter nothing but: Unsubscriberodmakers 3) post it 4) That's all - except I'd change all passwords on your computer,internet server and email system because someone had to be using them tosubscribe you to this list-serv! That's a fact, jack! Bye, Don Burns from d_price@global2000.net Mon Jan 12 22:01:24 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id XAA08804 for; Mon, 12 Jan 1998 23:01:20 -0500 Subject: Re: cane Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: David Price Jerry Foster wrote: David The Demerest Cane at its worst is good stuff, unless ist's beenstraightened in the field..obviousJudging from your questions you need to buy Wayne's book, and thevideois a great help to beginners also..(IMHO) Jerry, Judging from your answer to my two simple questions(buyWaynesBook) I should find a real mail-list on the subject!!!!!! David, David, David, Your questions do not have simple answers. Why are you in such a rushtobuy cane, anyway?If this list was wrong for you (and others), you would have receivedsomecanned answer to your questions. And, these simple answers you desirewouldhave been useless! BTW, if you don't have time to read the archives, getWayne's book etc., you don't have time to make a cane rod. Take it easy if you can, Ted G. And Ted I guess you did'nt have time to read my original post!!!!!!.Dave Price from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Jan 12 22:19:23 1998 Subject: Re: cane Other sources for quality bamboo;Demarest family has been importing Tonkin since the 20's. They do a finejob. Competitors have now entered the buiness and are also doing a fine job.AndyRoyer of Bamboo Hardwoods has been making trips to China, dealing withthegrowers,doing a fine job of selecting the cuttings for import.They willbothhave astock of fine quality cane in the near future 2- 1/2 " Tonkin.Andy says hisshipmentwill not have any slash marks. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Jan 12 22:41:26 1998 Subject: Re: cane -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: cane Take it easy if you can, Ted G. And Ted I guess you did'nt have time to read my original post!!!!!!.Dave Price Dave, Perhaps the item below is your original post?(I read it a couple times) Message of 1/11/98 8:43 PM:Hi all,I'm new to the list and new to cane building(rod building for 25 years)and I'm about to try to purchase cane. I just moved from N.J back to theSaratoga N.Y. area and I'm planning to get in touch with the Demareststhat I beleave sell out of an area that I pass by when I go to N.J. toget stuff from my house down there.I hope that I can stop in and getwhat I need.After hearing these stories I'm not shure what to do at thispoint and any advice would be more than welcome. I don't have any good books on the subject at the moment(unemployed andtight on cash)but I am a machinist and master woodworker, and havelearned a little from this great information source(internet). But acouple of quick questions come to mind?Do you stagger the nodes so they aren't in one place?Heat treatment-how hot, how long?these have probably been covered before but there is so much to searchin the archives and I have to move on purchasing cane real soon(takingtrip to N.J. within the week)and atleast one of the questions will afectthat.Thanks for any help you can give!!!!!(a thousand times over)Dave Price If the above is your original, there is no specific answer to your questionregards the oven - depends on the oven characteristics and what resultsonewants to achieve. Regards nodes, obviously they are staggered, never beendone otherwise (except in a test). How to stagger? who knows - eachrodmaker has as their own experience and theory. Regards, Ted G. from lblan@provide.net Mon Jan 12 22:57:09 1998 Subject: Re: cane David; I rather suspect that the post was read.... but understand, we canbring servers to their knees when we start discussing node staggering.2x2x2, 3x3, and the Garrison method all have their proponents. And if thenodeless guys jump in here, well............... : ) Heat treating? I rather suspect one or two of the archives are *filled*withdiscussion regarding time and temperature. Be careful, you might needasbestos gloves to read all of those posts! Ted G's response about "pat" answers was right on. There are no simpleanswers... no *one* solution to any problem. I gather that you didn't see the answers you were looking for. Ok, but don'twrite off a very valuable resource after one whole post. Buying cane? Demerest vs. Royer vs. ?? Again... each have their proponents.The mold problems? We just went around that one, see the posts marked"Caneotine". We still haven't reached any firm conclusions about the mold,although it *appears* that we have some concurrence when it comes tomoldthat penetrates the fibers. Larry Blan Jerry Foster wrote: David The Demerest Cane at its worst is good stuff, unless ist's beenstraightened in the field..obvious darkened areas where it was heated..Ithink they sell as lettle as 3 culms at a time, but i don't think theylet you hand pick it yourself? call them before you drop by.The price per culm is better if you buy a bundle (20) but it's pricey.. Overall i guess you've gathered, cane is the cheapest part of theprocess.. Regards Jerry Foster PS Judging from your questions you need to buy Wayne's book, and the videois a great help to beginners also..(IMHO) Jerry, Judging from your answer to my two simple questions(buy WaynesBook) I should find a real mail-list on the subject!!!!!! from gord@teleport.com Tue Jan 13 00:47:21 1998 Subject: Tempering process Hello Rodmakers, I've found a very nice page that has interesting results with respect toheat treating cane. Lloyd, the author, has found evidence that indicateGarrison's method may have indeed removed moisture - well!. There'smore than that though! The page is...http://home.att.net/~ldcross3/temper.htm I'll add a link at..http://www.teleport.com/~gord/canelink.shtml Cheers,Gord If you're not web-enabled - email me and I'll forward the text. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jan 13 02:24:41 1998 Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:24:32 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, J. C. Zimny wrote: Josephine Cook wrote: I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stopit??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of themarefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosieNice Language! I can see where this person has been raised.John Zimny Not all Kiwis speak like that. I am NOT a kiwi. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jan 13 02:29:47 1998 Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:29:36 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: your mail On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, C. O. Nicks wrote: Tony Young wrote: On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Josephine Cook wrote: I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stopit??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to findfucking 3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of themarefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosie Dear, dear, dear me. Talk about shooting the messanger :-)))You sign on then object to the thing working.Tony is that one from downunder? How did she get on the list, I wroteher back and the mail was not delivered. Maybe she changed address, orsomething Sort of down under, or up here, depending upon your point of view. Nope the fair Josie is a Kiwi, though I must say the language is somewhat simmilar to that used here on occasion it just sounds different.I guess if the fishing and deer hunting is as good as it is there you feel you have the right to speak that way, unless you have manners. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jan 13 02:35:17 1998 Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:35:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: your mail On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Tony,et alI assume Josie is a kiwi and is acting like a cattleman who has justfound10,000sheep on 10 sections of his best range-now here in the revoltingcolonies the name Josie is generally female but you commonwealth folkshavestrange ways :-).Hank. I have to be careful here as you've mentioned a person named Josie (gender unknown), Kiwi, sheep and female all in the one posting. There is a chance that some-one could be imprisioned for 20 years forwhere all that may lead ;-).Appoligies to any Kiwi cousins reading this. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jan 13 02:36:54 1998 Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:36:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Bet she was raised on grits. ;^) ROFL. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jan 13 02:45:49 1998 Tue, 13 Jan 1998 16:45:35 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: cane On Mon, 12 Jan 1998, David Price wrote: Jerry Foster wrote: David The Demerest Cane at its worst is good stuff, unless ist's beenstraightened in the field..obvious darkened areas where it was heated..Ithink they sell as lettle as 3 culms at a time, but i don't think theylet you hand pick it yourself? call them before you drop by.The price per culm is better if you buy a bundle (20) but it's pricey.. Overall i guess you've gathered, cane is the cheapest part of theprocess.. Regards Jerry Foster PS Judging from your questions you need to buy Wayne's book, and thevideois a great help to beginners also..(IMHO) Jerry, Judging from your answer to my two simple questions(buy WaynesBook) I should find a real mail-list on the subject!!!!!! David,I haven't seen the posts previous but Jerry has given good advise. There are a lot of questions you'll need answered when you start making rods and Waynes book is a great guide. In fact you could easily make perfectly good rods without any other source of help armed with Waynes book. There aren't too many cane rod makers out here so I'm talking from experience. Buy Wayne's book. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jan 13 05:06:05 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA06482 for; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:06:52 GMT Subject: Re: At 13:23 13/01/98 +1200, you wrote:I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stop it??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of them arefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosie The trouble with these New Zealand girls is that they simply don't knowhowto call a spade a spade. They're all so well brought up (by nuns) that theytrip around and around the subject, rather than give any possible offence.The vast majority are still virgins at the age of thirty. This nice conventgirl is obviously also an English major. Sounds like a job for Batman Biondo. John Cooper (Fine art and medieval history) from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Jan 13 06:18:21 1998 Subject: Re: cane David;Did not see your original transmission.Was away at a trade show.Thereismorethan one source for bamboo,both new and aged.Also more than one sourceof hardcopy to refer to.If I can help you let me know.Sweetwater from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jan 13 06:32:10 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Any1 want to date this slut. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jan 13 06:39:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: your mail I hope the half german part is not the mouth from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jan 13 06:48:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: cane So how do you get ahold of Andy if Demarests are out of cane?????????? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jan 13 06:52:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: cane David,If you can't afford to buy the books go to your library and see if you cangetthem , maybe on inter-library loan or maybe you can talk them into gettingthem in for their shelves. I know I have had my library back here do justthese things and they are always very helpful in these matters. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jan 13 07:09:39 1998 Tue, 13 Jan 1998 21:09:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, J.Cooper wrote: At 13:23 13/01/98 +1200, you wrote:I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stopit??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of them arefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosie The trouble with these New Zealand girls is that they simply don't knowhowto call a spade a spade. They're all so well brought up (by nuns) that theytrip around and around the subject, rather than give any possible offence.The vast majority are still virgins at the age of thirty. This nice conventgirl is obviously also an English major. Sounds like a job for Batman Biondo. John Cooper (Fine art and medieval history) John,I'm not sure, but I think that was somewhat tongue in cheek? /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Jan 13 08:05:15 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 13Jan 1998 09:07:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Wagner Information I have a set of Lon's...only negative I find is the adjustment screws need a hex nut or wrench....I am yanking them and putting in set screws with allen key access. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Jan 13 08:10:49 1998 Subject: Re: cane Andy Royer 206-463-3771 West coast time from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 13 08:47:28 1998 ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: lacing rods Back before the days of modern plastics, we used a method called lacingto tie bundles of wire together in assemblies going into the B58. Itseemed adaptable so I tried it on the rod I just finished. I will passit on to you and you may(or may not) find it useful also. Lacing used a waxed linen string to form bundles of wire into a cable. even dental floss will work. The idea is to pre-bind the rod so that itcan be straightened properly before binding. The lacing allows the rodbuilder to do this and the lacing need not be removed for binding. Thepurpose is the same as the masking tape and is intended for those whofind masking tape annoying. To lace a rod, first position the individual rod pieces to be glued.Masking tape seems to be unbeatable for this. Once the glue has beenapplied, roll the pieces together and tie a slip knot and a few halfhitches around the butt end to hold the pieces together. You may findit useful to secure the butt end of the rod for lacing. I form a loopof string and secure it to the end of my work bench. Remove any maskingtape and slip a length of plastic pipe over the rod pieces. The lengthnor the diameter of the plastic tube is not critical. The purpose ofthe plastic tube is to keep the rod pieces from "swarming" while youlace them. I used a 1 foot length of thin walled, 1/2" pipe I got atthe aquarium store. Now you should have the rod pieces passing through the piece of plastictube, tied together at the butt end, and secured to the end of your workbench with a loop of string. stretch the lacing string parallel to therod. Pinch the string about 2 to four inches below the butt end. Nowpass the free end of the string around the rod(a tatting shuttle fromWallmart, $1.38, works great to hold the free end of the thread). Nowpass the shuittle(free end) upward and under (not over and down) betweenthe thread where you are pinching it and the rod. Now pass theshuttle( from the butt end) through the loop made by the string goingaround the rod. Pull the string tight and you will have a self lockinghalf hitch knot. Move down the rod 2 to 4 inches and repeat theprocess. As you move down the rod, slide the plastic tube ahead of thelace. It is not really necessary, however it keeps the pieces alignedwhile you are lacing them together. Now wipe off the excess epoxy,(usesolvent if you prefer) and the rod is prebound. Straighten to yoursatisfaction and bind over the lacing. Use cotton thread if you aregoing to heat treat before the binding is removed. If you are going torebind before heat treating, the stronger polyester thread or evendental floss allows you to get the rod pieces a little tighter bound.If you have trouble with the thread knotting, try waxing the threadbeforehand with paraffin or beeswax. The only negative to this method is the removal of the thread after theglue has set. Since each "tie" is an individual knot, each knot must becut before it is removed(or the epoxy and thread filed off at the sametime.) I made a thread cutter from a stainless steel dental pick fromthe drug store. I sharpened the inside curve of the dental pick to aknife edge and use it to clip the thread. Hope you find this method useful or if not at least entertaining. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Jan 13 08:54:05 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo rod mag. C. O. Nicks wrote: What was the cut-off date that we were supposed to wait to occur forbefore reentering subscription information?PS - Anyone else think their new pop-up ad is really tacky?Sunday 1-11-98, I haven't heard ether! I re-subscribed with a note that this was the second time, and heardback from them within an hour. I just hope I only have onesubscription, not two; and yes, I think their ad is rather crass!Harry Boyd from dryfly@erols.com Tue Jan 13 09:26:14 1998 Subject: Recent Language Gentlemen It is a pleasure and privilege to be a part of this service and I amthankful that members are eager to share and make available theirknowledge, experience and patience to help beginners and experiencedbuilders alike, carry on and improve the art of cane rodbuilding. Furthermore, I and grateful that, while at times many of us maydisagree, we do treat others on the list with the respect that is dueeach human being. We do seem to the follow the "Golden Rule". The basics of this list are to ask questions and get opinions andanswers and this can result in many daily postings, which many of uslook forward to reading and responding to. We all have the ability toleave and rejoin as we please and in the past many have determined thatthe list is not for them and have kindly asked the "how to cancel thelist" question and many members are quick to honor their request andpromptly post the necessary directions. If Josie had read some of the3000+ messages posted she would have noticed the respect andconsideration that we have on the list. It is a shame that she had torespond the way she did and I'm sorry to have experienced the tone andlanguage of her posting. I hope in the future that we do not have to gothrough that situation again. Enough said...build on! from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jan 13 10:11:01 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: heat treating I just finished reading the dissertation on heat treating athttp://home.att.net/~ldcross3/temper.htm and it made me think that the heat treating formula that Walton Powellgave me is probably right on; 250 degrees for 1 1/2-2 hours300 degrees for 1 hour375-400 degrees for 30 minutes his feelings are that the first one to two hours drives out most of themoisture without turning the moisture to steam and rupturing the cellwalls and the next temperature setting and time removes the rest of thewater and starts the chemical changes and the last temperature and timesetting completes the moisture removal, chemical change and color andslightly carbonized the cane.the more I read and try seems to point that Mr. Powell was right intelling me that his heat treating results in a rod that doesn't take aset and ends up with the color of honey and is the right stiffness forthe rods that he builds. I have never had the opportunity to try or fishwith one of Walton Powells rods in that he retired from the businessquite a while ago and I just haven't known anybody who owned one. Readthe dissertation at that web page and see what you think-- not that I'mtrying to open the heat treating can of worms again--but maybe we canlearn something from somebody new and somebody who was in thebusiness Patrick from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jan 13 11:03:48 1998 ; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 17:04:55 GMT Subject: Re: At 21:09 13/01/98 +0800, you wrote:On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, J.Cooper wrote: At 13:23 13/01/98 +1200, you wrote:I dont know what the fucks going on but I am fucking sick and tired ofgetting everyones messages???!!! Can someon tell me how to stopit??? Iwas away for almost 3 months and have now come back to find fucking3011emails waiting for me and I'll be fucked if I know who most of themarefrom. EXTREMELY annoyedJosie The trouble with these New Zealand girls is that they simply don't knowhowto call a spade a spade. They're all so well brought up (by nuns) thattheytrip around and around the subject, rather than give any possibleoffence.The vast majority are still virgins at the age of thirty. This niceconventgirl is obviously also an English major. Sounds like a job for Batman Biondo. John Cooper (Fine art and medieval history) John,I'm not sure, but I think that was somewhat tongue in cheek? /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ Tongue in cheek - mois? JC from m.boretti@agonet.it Tue Jan 13 11:54:03 1998 Subject: Risp: Risp: Ferrule Needed Dear Mr. Barnes,Thank you for your soonest reply.Sincerely,Marco ----------Da: George W. Barnes A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: martedá 13 gennaio 1998 4.55 Boretti Marco wrote: Dear Mr.BarnesI am an Italian hobby rodmaker, and I am to interested were it'spossibleto find the Super Z original ferrule.Please, send by E-mail the compleate addrees of source of Super Zferrule.Sincerely,Marco Boretti. m.boretti@agonet.it ----------Da: George W. Barnes A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: lunedá 12 gennaio 1998 5.06 wdube@ebmail.gdeb.com wrote: Help! I need a single 15/64 inch Super Z male ferrule. I've tried toreachBailey Wood at (802) 888-7859, but received a recording sayingthatthenumber is not in service. Can anyone supply me with the ferrule orknowwhere to get one? Many thanks, Wayne (not the famous one) Try E. Hille in PA. You may have to buy the entire ferrule but theyhaveSuper Z's E Hille CompanyAngler's Supply House815 Railway StreetWilliamsport, PA 17701USAFax 1(717)323-9995 from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Jan 13 12:18:57 1998 (CET) ; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:44:11 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: ----------From: Brian & Michelle Creek Bet she was raised on grits. ;^) Being half german it must be eisbein mit sauerkraut! (take that, all Yougrit lovers :-) ). regards Carsten from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Jan 13 12:18:59 1998 (CET) ; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 18:44:12 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: ----------From: Tony Young Not all Kiwis speak like that. I am NOT a kiwi. Tony Tony Dont tell anyone that I asked, but what IS a kiwi (Allways thought it wassome kind of orange or vegetable) Best regards Carsten from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Jan 13 12:29:36 1998 Subject: Re: Recent Language Has anyone done the math on the number of messages received in theperiodstipulated? I hate to question the veracity of anyone I don't know, but Iwill bet that the rod list comes nowhere near that number of messages inathree month period!!! from rfairfie@cisco.com Tue Jan 13 14:29:08 1998 MAA21544 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 12:28:33 - Subject: Re: Recent Language ~3000/90 = 33+ per day. It doesn't take long to add up. from rmoon@dns.ida.net Tue Jan 13 12:15:18 1998Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 10:16:34 -0700 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Ralph W Moon Subject: Re: Recent LanguageMIME-Version: 1.0Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Has anyone done the math on the number of messages received in theperiodstipulated? I hate to question the veracity of anyone I don't know, but Iwill bet that the rod list comes nowhere near that number of messagesin athree month period!!! from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Tue Jan 13 14:31:01 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 13 Jan 1998 15:30:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Recent Language Ralph W Moon wrote: Has anyone done the math on the number of messages received in theperiodstipulated? I hate to question the veracity of anyone I don't know, but Iwill bet that the rod list comes nowhere near that number of messagesin athree month period!!! I have saved 2632 messages since 8/13. I don't keep everything, butthen again, I don't throw much away. Mostly the unsubscribe requestsand personal items. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 13 15:36:08 1998 Subject: Re: Recent Language In a message dated 1/13/98 7:33:03 AM Pacific Standard Time,dryfly@erols.comwrites: It is a shame that she had torespond the way she did and I'm sorry to have experienced the tone andlanguage of her posting. I hope in the future that we do not have to gothrough that situation again. Don't worry about it. She wasn't a regular on the list, and I think most of us just looked at it as amusing. This (bad language) is going to happen occasionally, as it does in all internet forums. We are just fortunate that it doesn't happen very much (hardly at all) on rodmakers, probably because of the type of person that gets into bamboo rod making. Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Jan 13 15:44:36 1998 Subject: Re: heat treating At 08:10 13/01/98 -0800, Pat wrote:I just finished reading the dissertation on heat treating athttp://home.att.net/~ldcross3/temper.htm and a huge snip Pat, Thanx for pointing this URL. Neat stuff on tempering. Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Jan 13 15:51:40 1998 Subject: Re: Recent Language "Profanity - Is the uneducated mind trying to communicate theinexpressible" Unknown (to me) from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Tue Jan 13 16:00:55 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: Thanks for the help! I want to take up some bandwidth to publicly thank Chris Bogart and TomSmithwick for putting up with my numerous offline inquiries. Whatpatience(and mucho help) they have given this rank novice! Thanks for helping this"shy guy," i.e. lurker.Jerry Snidere-mail: jerry.snider@uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jan 13 16:08:31 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo rod mag. Gentlemen,Please enlighten me with this ad so I can see what all the fuss is about. from khube@benmeadows.com Tue Jan 13 17:06:08 1998 Subject: Titebond II Some time back, someone (Darryl Hayashida maybe ??) used Titebond II forthefull glue up on a blank. I wondered what the last season of fishing showedwith this rod. It sure is appealing to think about using a one-part glue fora change. Any update available ?? Karl Hube from tball@mail.portup.com Tue Jan 13 17:44:30 1998 Subject: Re: Andy Royers cane Right on Doug on your discription of the Demarests. Tom from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 13 18:17:42 1998 Subject: Re: Titebond II In a message dated 1/13/98 3:10:27 PM Pacific Standard Time,khube@benmeadows.com writes: Some time back, someone (Darryl Hayashida maybe ??) used Titebond II full glue up on a blank. I wondered what the last season of fishingshowedwith this rod. It sure is appealing to think about using a one-part gluefora change. Yup, that was me. The rod belongs to my Dad now, it was also thefirst Cattanach 7' 4wt. that I made, since renamed to the Sir D Favorite.The rod is still going and going and going.... Actually it's getting tobe 3 years old now, with no problems. Darryl Hayashida from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 13 18:20:11 1998 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Recent Language Well, yes. I was away for one week in December and durring that time, Iaccumulated 169 messages. Since three months is roughly 12 weeks, If ithad gone on, I would have accumulated over somewhere between 2000 and2200 Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 10:16 AM 1/13/98 -0700, you wrote: Has anyone done the math on the number of messages received in theperiodstipulated? I hate to question the veracity of anyone I don't know, but Iwill bet that the rod list comes nowhere near that number of messages inathree month period!!! from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue Jan 13 18:50:37 1998 SVR4) Subject: Ferrule feet I'm looking to turn my own ferrules on a lathe and wonder what the best technique is to cut the 'feet' at the base. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thomas from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Jan 13 19:04:07 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rod mag. I re-subscribed with a note that this was the second time, andheardback from them within an hour. I just hope I only have onesubscription, not two; and yes, I think their ad is rather crass!Harry Boyd I resubscribed this morning and still haven't heard anything from them.I also wrote a note saying it was my second attempt. Go figure. Itdoesn't sound like they are too organized. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Jan 13 19:44:00 1998 Subject: Re: Andy Royers cane So what does this message have to do with Andy Royer's cane? from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jan 13 19:55:53 1998 Wed, 14 Jan 1998 09:55:42 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Carsten_J=F8rgensen?= wrote: From: Tony Young Not all Kiwis speak like that. I am NOT a kiwi.Tony Tony Dont tell anyone that I asked, but what IS a kiwi (Allways thought it wassome kind of orange or vegetable) Best regards Carsten Don't know if this is a genuine question but I'll answer it anyhow.A kiwi is a small flightless bird only found in New Zealand. The European decendant New Zealanders are known as kiwis and have a good rugby football team, the Polynesian decendants who were there long before Captain Cook found NZ just after finding the East coast of Australia are called Mouries, they are big people a whole team of which would make an unbeatable rugby team. Quite a few years ago the human kiwis started growing what I *think* is also known as a Chineese Gooseberry and to market it internationalycalled it a Kiwi Fruit. Taste great. There is a great deal of comradarie between the Aussies and Kiwis and in sport it dosn't matter who wins as long as the Aussies beat the Kiwis and visa versa if you're an NZ'r.A few years ago there was an incident in a cricket match which is a bit hard to explain but involved an Aussie bolwing an unplayable but legal (at the time bowl) ball on the last bowl of a match causing the Kiwis to loose by about 1-2 runs.The kiwis talk differently to everybody else (the pot calling the kettle black, I know) but they pronounce the number 6 like sucks or sex or a combination of the two words. After the incident of the cricket match there was some graffiti in large writing on a wall in Wellington (NZ) saying "Australia SUX", so I added a line below saying NZ 5.Just a little oneupmanship I'm still a little proud of. Tony, sorry for the bandwidth. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jan 13 20:03:36 1998 Wed, 14 Jan 1998 10:03:26 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Ferrule feet On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Thomas Pindelski wrote: I'm looking to turn my own ferrules on a lathe and wonder what the best technique is to cut the 'feet' at the base. Any suggestions would be appreciated. Thomas I've taken to cutting the tabs while still over thickness with a jewlers saw then fitting the ferrule and then turning the rod section in the lathe taking the ferrule tabs to the final thickness.This reduces the chance of breaking the taps if cut thinner.A Dremmel works better than the saw. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jan 13 20:44:45 1998 Subject: Re:Andys cane Can anyone tell me how much the Demarest's get for cane and what istheirminimum? Also how does it compare to Andy's cane for quality and price? Pluswhat is the shipping charges like for Demarest's compared to Andy's? CanDemarest's ship 12 footers? from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Jan 13 20:47:15 1998 Subject: Re: Recent Language Yeah - we know more than the one adjective! from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Jan 13 20:49:19 1998 Subject: Re: heat treating I thought that Walton was still making a handful of cane rods a year..?? Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Jan 13 20:51:42 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Titebond II I was just thinking to myself today what would happen if you used one ofthenew glues for wood such as titebond . I am sure that it is much strongerthanhide glue. What are your thoughts guys? from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jan 13 21:24:00 1998 Subject: hexrod.xls mac-creator="4D4F5353" Larry FIXED.....I think.. give it your acid test.. Not even sure what was wrong ,,when Paul and i started passing it backand forth we lost version control.. Regards, and thanx Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jan 13 21:37:50 1998 Subject: Tapers mac-creator="4D4F5353" OK group Chris had a suggestion about posting line length fished with the Tapers.He also suggested some distances..would you like to agree on the stats Iuse for the archive pages..If Larry can't break the new (debugged,again) version of excelrod (it's posted by the way, I'm going to re-doall the stress curves. snipping your messages, now i get to read Josie's little missile, notonce, but about 15 times..JOY JWF from lblan@provide.net Tue Jan 13 21:46:00 1998 Subject: Re: hexrod.xls Yes! Looks good Jerry. I'll try loading a couple of different rods tomorrow,but the 6'3" was the rod I had used as a test. I guess I can live withoutknowing the solution.... =8-) Thanks! Larry Blan Subject: hexrod.xls LarryFIXED.....I think.. give it your acid test..Not even sure what was wrong ,,when Paul and i started passing it backand forth we lost version control..Regards, and thanxJerry from mrj@seanet.com Tue Jan 13 21:49:05 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21846 for Subject: Re: Re:Andys cane The last time I bought the Demarest cane it was $25.00 per for a bundle of25 culms shipped to Seattle. Andys cane was $13.00 per for a 50 culm (5bundles) amount. The price is higher for less amounts I don't know howmuchthough. A week or two ago we went through the plusses and minuses of thetwocanes. Maybe you can look in the archive for all the posts. I a nutshell Ilikes the Demarest cane better but thought I got my moneys worth forAndyscane.Martin Jensen-----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Andys cane Can anyone tell me how much the Demarest's get for cane and what istheirminimum? Also how does it compare to Andy's cane for quality andprice?Pluswhat is the shipping charges like for Demarest's compared to Andy's? CanDemarest's ship 12 footers? from lblan@provide.net Tue Jan 13 21:53:32 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers Chris had a suggestion about posting line length fished with the Tapers.He also suggested some distances..would you like to agree on the stats Iuse for the archive pages..If Larry can't break the new (debugged,again) version of excelrod (it's posted by the way, I'm going to re-doall the stress curves. Excellent idea! Larry Blan from arnold_pc@classic.msn.com Tue Jan 13 22:12:56 1998 SMTPSVC;Tue, 13 Jan 1998 20:12:10 -0800 Subject: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? Question from a new rodmaker...How long do I need to wait, after receiving cane and putting in a drying split, before I can start planing???This is my first post on the list. I have been lurking for better than a month, reading everything in sight. Thanks in advance for the help! Jeff Arnold from Hamilton, Ohio from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jan 13 22:20:12 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks for the help! Jerry,Both Chris and Tom, to say nothing of many others, are very helpful- that'swhat this list is all about - I've certainly learned a great deal and amextremely grateful to many on the list,Chris and Tom among them.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jan 13 22:22:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: your mail Sir D,That's why I got off.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jan 13 22:24:30 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Recent Language Ralph,I'm in the process of down loading 70 e-mails today due Josie's literarygenius but ain't we had fun ?!Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jan 13 23:24:30 1998 Subject: Re: heat treating Patrick,Are Walton's settings on his oven or whatever correct? I know that if Iuse those settings in my oven(which are monitored by thermometers) Iwillcarbonize my strips.Regards,Hank. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 13 23:35:11 1998 Subject: Re: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? In a message dated 1/13/98 8:23:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,arnold_pc@classic.msn.com writes: How long do I need to wait, after receiving cane and putting in a drying split, before I can start planing??? You don't need to wait at all if you don't want to, especially if youare going to flame your culm. The flaming process will dry out aculm more than decades of aging will. For that matter, so will anytype of oven tempering. Go ahead and start. 32 strips for the top half of your culm and 24 for the bottom half.Assuming you have a 12 ft. long, 2 inch in diameter culm. Youwill spend lot's less time planing since your strips start outmuch closer to final size. Darryl Hayashida from gwr@seanet.com Wed Jan 14 00:46:22 1998 WAA01047 for ; Tue, 13 Jan 1998 22:46:17 Subject: Re: Bamboo rod mag. Hey Steve, I also re-subscribed this morning and then sent them an additionalnote asking about ad rates again and, you guessed it, no reply. Doesn'tseem you can give these folks money and I grow less sure everyday that Iwant to. Russ I resubscribed this morning and still haven't heard anything from them.I also wrote a note saying it was my second attempt. Go figure. Itdoesn't sound like they are too organized. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jan 14 02:23:48 1998 Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:23:36 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bamboo rod mag. I've managed to email them a couple of times and I get the impression that they've had some setbacks and don't want to take anybody's money till they're happy they can deliver. Tony On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Russ Gooding wrote: Hey Steve, I also re-subscribed this morning and then sent them an additionalnote asking about ad rates again and, you guessed it, no reply. Doesn'tseem you can give these folks money and I grow less sure everyday that Iwant to. Russ I resubscribed this morning and still haven't heard anything from them.I also wrote a note saying it was my second attempt. Go figure. Itdoesn't sound like they are too organized. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jan 14 02:24:43 1998 Wed, 14 Jan 1998 16:24:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Recent Language On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Ralph,I'm in the process of down loading 70 e-mails today due Josie'sliterarygenius but ain't we had fun ?!Hank. I was think that myself. It takes the strangest things to set off a thread sometimes. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Wed Jan 14 07:32:56 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Subject: Re: Thanks for the help! Didn't mean to leave anyone out--Mark Freed, Wayne (of course!), Sir D,you, and all of those most helpful messages left by everyone. Chris andTomlet me ask some really DUMB! questions and were so patient. Wouldn't darehave asked them online (and I HAVE read all of the archives!). Sometimeswetake all that we can get, and forget to give back (even if its only a hugeTHANK YOU).At 11:03 PM 1/13/98 -0500, you wrote:Jerry,Both Chris and Tom, to say nothing of many others, are very helpful-that'swhat this list is all about - I've certainly learned a great deal and amextremely grateful to many on the list,Chris and Tom among them.Hank. Trout Grouche-mail: jerry.snider@uc.edu from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Jan 14 08:23:58 1998 Subject: Re: Titebond II At 21:12 13/01/98 EST, you wrote:I was just thinking to myself today what would happen if you used one ofthenew glues for wood such as titebond . I am sure that it is much strongerthanhide glue. What are your thoughts guys? Guys, Seem to recall the Ralph Moon used Titebond II and discussed it's meritsabout a year ago. Check the archives. Don from cgriffin@selway.umt.edu Wed Jan 14 08:34:45 1998 07:34:42 -0700 Subject: Re: Bamboo rod mag. They've answered my e-mails twice...quite responsive! Cary Griffin -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo rod mag. I've managed to email them a couple of times and I get the impressionthat they've had some setbacks and don't want to take anybody's moneytill they're happy they can deliver. Tony On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Russ Gooding wrote: Hey Steve, I also re-subscribed this morning and then sent them anadditionalnote asking about ad rates again and, you guessed it, no reply. Doesn'tseem you can give these folks money and I grow less sure everyday thatIwant to. Russ I resubscribed this morning and still haven't heard anything from them.I also wrote a note saying it was my second attempt. Go figure. Itdoesn't sound like they are too organized. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jan 14 08:38:26 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Titebond II hide glue is a stronger hold. I don't have any technical data to proveit but experience as a professional wood worker. I do know that it takesover 300 lbs per square inch to pull a hide glue apart plus its the onlyreversible glue in the world-the only one you dont have to plane down tobare wood to be able to reglue. ----------From: Grhghlndr[SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 6:12 PM Subject: Re: Titebond II I was just thinking to myself today what would happen if you used oneof thenew glues for wood such as titebond . I am sure that it is muchstronger thanhide glue. What are your thoughts guys? from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Jan 14 08:41:53 1998 Subject: Re: Titebond II It works! Set up time can be a bitch,and it will blow up your dimentions abit from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Jan 14 08:44:35 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rod mag. RO>Hey Steve, RO> I also re-subscribed this morning and then sent them anadditionalRO>note asking about ad rates again and, you guessed it, no reply. Doesn'tRO>seem you can give these folks money and I grow less sure everydaythat IRO>want to. RO>RussRO>>I resubscribed this morning and still haven't heard anything fromthem.RO>>I also wrote a note saying it was my second attempt. Go figure. ItRO>>doesn't sound like they are too organized.RO>>RO>>Regards, SteveRO>>Independence, MORO>>RO>> All, I resubmitted my subscription yesterday. In the email address box I putmy AOL account name, but my conformation reply form them showed uphere- in my Cmix in-box. I think it was just an automatic reply too. Nice touch - gives one a warm feeling! Anyone who's not looked lately, they've got the 1st issue's list ofcontents on-line. I see they've added fly tying and fishing resorts totheir agenda. Oh joy, FR&R - part deux. LAter, Don Burns PS - Maybe they'd be interested in a resort article "My stay at TouristHotel, Ljubljana"? If not, maybe my up-coming stay at the FireholeRanch could get written off as a business trip? I don't think mydad's fishing cabin in Algonquin Park would make the 1st cut. Fourwalls, a roof complete with a two-hole, un-chinked, log out-house doesnot make for a resort. Damn good fishing - but a resort? from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Jan 14 08:56:48 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Titebond II Don I like it and have never never had a problem. . Even straightening is nobiggy, just work slowly and carefully Ralph Don Andersen wrote: At 21:12 13/01/98 EST, you wrote:I was just thinking to myself today what would happen if you used oneof thenew glues for wood such as titebond . I am sure that it is muchstrongerthanhide glue. What are your thoughts guys? Guys, Seem to recall the Ralph Moon used Titebond II and discussed it's meritsabout a year ago. Check the archives. Don from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Jan 14 09:10:45 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: Ferrule feet Thanks, Tony. I was going to do something fancy with an indexing head and mill saw, but your method seems simple and effective. I assume NOThaving tabs weakens the rod because of the abrupt change in flexibility at the ferrule base - a sort of stress concentration? BTW, do you use nickel silver and have you tried stainless steel? Best regrads, Thomas---------- Subject: Re: Ferrule feet On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Thomas Pindelski wrote: I'm looking to turn my own ferrules on a lathe and wonder what the besttechnique is to cut the 'feet' at the base. Any suggestions would beappreciated. Thomas I've taken to cutting the tabs while still over thickness with a jewlerssaw then fitting the ferrule and then turning the rod section in thelathe taking the ferrule tabs to the final thickness.This reduces the chance of breaking the taps if cut thinner.A Dremmel works better than the saw. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jan 14 09:19:40 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? SalarFly wrote: arnold_pc@classic.msn.com writes: Darryl Hayashida Good advice, Sir D. I tried your C-clamp method on my second rodlastweek, and had good results. I got 23 1/2 strips from the butt section,and 24 from the tip. Probably could have gone further on tip section ifI wanted, but got nervous. This is certainly going to make for asmaller pile of plane shavings. andwould like some input. I flattened the nodes with heat and a vise, a la"Famous" Wayne's book, and it works great. After flattening, it wastime to straighten the split strips at each node. Since heating andvising works so well to flatten, I used it to straighten as well. Theresults were amazing to me. I can totally straighten a strip in just afew minutes. Anyone else tried this? Are there shortcomings, etc.?? Harry Boyd from flyfisher@rhco.com Wed Jan 14 09:27:53 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? I also use a vise to straighten the nodes. I haven't had a problem yet,although I'd like to hear from people who've done this more than I. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 10:20 AM Subject: Re: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? andwould like some input. I flattened the nodes with heat and a vise, ala"Famous" Wayne's book, and it works great. After flattening, it wastime to straighten the split strips at each node. Since heating andvising works so well to flatten, I used it to straighten as well. Theresults were amazing to me. I can totally straighten a strip in justafew minutes. Anyone else tried this? Are there shortcomings, etc.?? Harry Boyd from flyfisher@rhco.com Wed Jan 14 09:28:18 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Grayling Does anyone have the number for the Grayling Chamber of Commerce? Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Jan 14 10:11:18 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks for the help! Jerry and Hank - Thanks for the kind words. One of the many things I havelearned from people like Bill Fink, who have pursued this hobby longer thanIhave, is that after a while there is more satisfaction in watching a newperson develop skills, than there is in your own accomplishments. Also, Ihavelearned more from the list and continue to do so than I could ever giveback. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jan 14 10:34:10 1998 Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:33:41 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Ferrule feet Re. the need for tabs I'll let some-one else answer. I've never tried ferrules without them but I think the ferrule may break where it's thin without the tabs?I do use an indexing arrangement of sorts. I drew a hex on a piece of pine lining board (12mm thick, about 1/2") and drilled a hole just large enough to allow the ferrule to fit through. I cut with the jewlers saw using the lines of the drawn hex as a guide. Then I file the tabs with a saw sharpening file (triangle in x section), fit to rod and turn to size. I do use NS rod which I wouldn't recomend if you can easily get tube.I'd hate to use SS for ferrules. I guess if I was a better machinest I'd try but I've found SS tricky to deal with in complicated operations and to be honest I don't realy want to spend the time to become good enough to try it. Tony On Wed, 14 Jan 1998, Thomas Pindelski wrote: Thanks, Tony. I was going to do something fancy with an indexing headand mill saw, but your method seems simple and effective. I assume NOThaving tabs weakens the rod because of the abrupt change in flexibility at the ferrule base - a sort of stress concentration? BTW, do you use nickel silver and have you tried stainless steel? Best regrads, On Tue, 13 Jan 1998, Thomas Pindelski wrote: I'm looking to turn my own ferrules on a lathe and wonder what thebesttechnique is to cut the 'feet' at the base. Any suggestions would beappreciated. Thomas I've taken to cutting the tabs while still over thickness with a jewlerssaw then fitting the ferrule and then turning the rod section in thelathe taking the ferrule tabs to the final thickness.This reduces the chance of breaking the taps if cut thinner.A Dremmel works better than the saw. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Wed Jan 14 10:35:04 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 14 Jan 1998 11:34:30 -0500 Subject: Bamboo Blanks This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------15FB59E21CFB This may be old news to you but it is new news to me... Rick's Rods lists bamboo blanks made by Wright and McGill of Denver forsale. They state that this is late 40's pre-embargo Tonkin cane... Theysay that they have 3000 sections available. I do not know the pricingor the availability. Does anyone now the quality of these blanks? Thisalso may be a source of older cane so we can see how the current stuffcompares... --------------15FB59E21CFB Content-Base: "http://www.ricksrods.com/" TM,Orvis,collectiblefishing reels,buy fishingtackle,sell fishing tackle,trade fishingtackle,Paul Hightower,BettyMalara,fly rods,Bob's Tackle,Fred De Bell,monel ferrules,rodwrappingthread,reel seats,guides,vintage fishingtackle,collectors,decoratoritems,antiques,tobacco fiberglass rodblanks,old fishing lures,TonkinCane,older metal fishing rods,solidfiberglass,fishingrods,spinning,baitcasting,spincasting,boat rods,boatreels,old tackleboxes,denver colorado">Rick's Rods --------------15FB59E21CFB-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Jan 14 10:45:40 1998 Subject: RE:Bamboo Blanks RO>This may be old news to you but it is new news to me... RO>Rick's Rods lists bamboo blanks made by Wright and McGill of DenverforRO>sale. They state that this is late 40's pre-embargo Tonkin cane... TheyRO>say that they have 3000 sections available. I do not know the pricingRO>or the availability. Does anyone now the quality of these blanks? ThisRO>also may be a source of older cane so we can see how the current stuffRO>compares... Who or what is "Rick's Rods"? How could I reach them? Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Wed Jan 14 11:08:41 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 14 Jan 1998 12:08:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Blanks I found this site for the first time yesterday. I tried posting the URLas a hot button on my first note, but it didn't work. Here we go theeasy way - www.ricksrods.com Phone:(303) 778-7911 The also list some older bamboo rod making equipment. i.e. a roughingmachine, binder, and taper cutter. Take a look at the picture of thetaper cutter... You could rig up the same sort of thing with regularforms or a piece of wood with a 60 degree groove routed in it... (BTW:Woodcraft sells a 60 degree V-groove bit I made a form with. I justrouted a tapered groove into a piece of maple and touched it up with a60 degree lathe bit. Not adjustable but cheap. Haven't tried it yet /no cane) Get some teflon/delrin and HDFB and make some rails and acarraige for the router (horizontal mount...) flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>This may be old news to you but it is new news to me... RO>Rick's Rods lists bamboo blanks made by Wright and McGill of DenverforRO>sale. They state that this is late 40's pre-embargo Tonkin cane... TheyRO>say that they have 3000 sections available. I do not know the pricingRO>or the availability. Does anyone now the quality of these blanks? ThisRO>also may be a source of older cane so we can see how the currentstuffRO>compares... Who or what is "Rick's Rods"? How could I reach them? Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jan 14 11:20:16 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: heat treating I am assuming that his oven settings are correct. He told me after a fewconversations that he had 2 or 3 thousand culms stashed away for futurePowell generations and that he would sell me one if I wanted to see andtry out his heat treating schedule. The only thing that has stopped meup till now was the $75 price tag for the culm but I got visited by thebamboo fairy and think I will splurge on one. Don't get the idea that wecan buy bamboo from Walton because he explicitly told me that this salewould be a one time thing for me to try out. He did tell me that hewould sell me a culm that had not been heat treated ($65) so I could seethe difference and that this is what he called A GRADE and quite a fewyears old. I dont think that you can carbonize the strips until you getup into the last hour or so at temps 300 degrees and above. ----------From: FISHWOOL[SMTP:FISHWOOL@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 13, 1998 8:03 PM Subject: Re: heat treating Patrick,Are Walton's settings on his oven or whatever correct? I knowthat if Iuse those settings in my oven(which are monitored by thermometers) Iwillcarbonize my strips.Regards,Hank. from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Jan 14 11:26:39 1998 SVR4) Subject: Machinery's Handbook Many on this list are involved in machining operations - whether ferrules, reel seats or reels. You may like to purchase a copy of Machinery's Handbook, the 'bible' of machining and materials. ENCO has the best prices and rapid free delivery. Mine (25th edition) was ~$70. Check http://www.industrialpress.com/handbook/25756.htm for contentsand http://www.industrialpress.com/history.htm for a fascinating briefhistory of this great tome. Whie I use the regular size, you may wish to consider the large print edition, as the regular has rather fine frint given the small page size. EWNCO has the large print version also. Add a Texas Instruments math calculator - $20 for a solar poweredversion at my local drug store in San Diego - and you have all the computing poweryou will likely need, unless you get into CAD/CAM. Though the somewhat quirkily named Machinery's Handbook is now in its25th printing since 1914, it's interesting to note that, absent additions on plastics and CAD/CAM, not much new has been discovered about themachining of common materials since the industrial revolution. It's great to read definitive math on knurling, for example, and how to get the knurls tomatch up properly. Highly recommended if you are serious about machining. Thomas Pindelski. from mrj@seanet.com Wed Jan 14 11:33:35 1998 8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22873 for ; Wed, Subject: Re: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? Harry Boyd wrote: SalarFly wrote: arnold_pc@classic.msn.com writes: Darryl Hayashida Good advice, Sir D. I tried your C-clamp method on my second rodlastweek, and had good results. I got 23 1/2 strips from the butt section,and 24 from the tip. Probably could have gone further on tip section ifI wanted, but got nervous. This is certainly going to make for asmaller pile of plane shavings. andwould like some input. I flattened the nodes with heat and a vise, a la"Famous" Wayne's book, and it works great. After flattening, it wastime to straighten the split strips at each node. Since heating andvising works so well to flatten, I used it to straighten as well. Theresults were amazing to me. I can totally straighten a strip in just afew minutes.Anyone else tried this? Are there shortcomings, etc.?? Harry BoydIhave used this metyhod with success for my 8 rods now. I do find thatsometimes you have to go back and restraighten of reflatten the section.Martin from cgriffin@selway.umt.edu Wed Jan 14 11:41:50 1998 10:41:45 -0700 Subject: Re: RE:Bamboo Blanks I have talked with Rick's about blanks and about a possible tip section fora Phillipson I have...they have tip sections, but they are not sellingcomplete blanks. Cary GriffinMissoula, MTAll Hail El Nino!! -----Original Message----- Subject: RE:Bamboo Blanks RO>This may be old news to you but it is new news to me... RO>Rick's Rods lists bamboo blanks made by Wright and McGill of DenverforRO>sale. They state that this is late 40's pre-embargo Tonkin cane... TheyRO>say that they have 3000 sections available. I do not know the pricingRO>or the availability. Does anyone now the quality of these blanks? ThisRO>also may be a source of older cane so we can see how the currentstuffRO>compares... Who or what is "Rick's Rods"? How could I reach them? Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 14 12:35:57 1998 Subject: Re: Titebond II In a message dated 1/14/98 6:47:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,DrBamboo@aol.comwrites: It works! Set up time can be a bitch,and it will blow up your dimentionsa bit I have seen Titebond II Extend where they claim tack time is doubled,but I haven't tried it. They sell it only in gallon sizes, and I wouldn'tbe able to use that much before it goes bad. Titebond II goes plastic with a lot less heat than other glues, sobe careful when straightening your blank. It is possible to overheat and delaminate your splines. Darryl Hayashida Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 14 12:35:58 1998 Subject: Re: Titebond II In a message dated 1/14/98 6:46:02 AM Pacific Standard Time,Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com writes: hide glue is a stronger hold. I don't have any technical data to proveit but experience as a professional wood worker. I do know that it takesover 300 lbs per square inch to pull a hide glue apart plus its the onlyreversible glue in the world-the only one you dont have to plane down tobare wood to be able to reglue. Hide glue is good stuff! The only drawback is it isn't water proof. But,with a good varnish job, and making sure the varnish never cracksor wears off, water should never come in contact with the glue.Same thing as with Titebond II though, be careful with the heatwhen straightening the blank. Too much heat will make it let go. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 14 12:43:31 1998 Subject: Straightening Strips (Was:How long of wait before planing cane) In a message dated 1/14/98 7:24:44 AM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: Since heating andvising works so well to flatten, I used it to straighten as well. Theresults were amazing to me. I can totally straighten a strip in just afew minutes. Anyone else tried this? Are there shortcomings, etc.?? That works well, but there is something else I do to straighten strips.I use a clothes iron. The kind normally used to get wrinkles out ofclothes. I have a circular metal plate, 18 inches in diameter. It is from a piece of machinery used in jewelry making, stone polishingin paticular. I don't see why a small anvil or other flat metal surfacewon't work also. I put the iron flat on the metal plate to warm upboth surfaces (pot holders under the plate or you will scorch yourtable top), and iron out the kinks. Less than a minute for each strip,perfectly straight. the bamboo. Or maybe you do. Didn't someone say Payne used tosoak his strips in water before straightening? Darryl Hayashida from CALucker@aol.com Wed Jan 14 12:55:20 1998 Subject: Re: heat treating Walton does not heat treat all his cane this way. He also flames. The canehe treated in the manner described in the post is heat treated along withgraphite rod blanks getting their epoxy set (or whatever holds graphiterodstogether). The oven room is quite large. Who knows how accurate thetempsare. (I don't believe them) Walton's culms treated with the graphiteblankscome out a very warm and brown sugary color. Remember also that Walton heat treats whole culms only. He never hasheattreated strips, nor did Maslan or EC. from mrj@seanet.com Wed Jan 14 12:59:34 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA29918 for Subject: Re: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? I just read my message and can anyone tell me what I said (G). My spellchecker was not on and I just hit the send button. oops!Martin Jensen Ihave used this metyhod with success for my 8 rods now. I do find thatsometimes you have to go back and restraighten of reflatten the section.Martin from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Wed Jan 14 13:28:21 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed, Same thing as with Titebond II though, be careful with the heatwhen straightening the blank. Too much heat will make it let go. Darryl Hayashida Can you provide some some frame of reference (even crude) with regard towhat is "too much heat" when working with Titebond II (aside from if itdelaminates you know its too much)? Would be very useful. from frankc@webspan.net Wed Jan 14 13:41:15 1998 Subject: C-CLAMP FOR CANE JUST READ A REFERENCE TO USING A "C-CLAMP METHOD" OF SPLITTINGSTRIPS.I HAVE BEEN READING THE SITE FOR SEVERAL MONTHS AND THIS THE FIRSTTIMEI HAVE READ OF THIS METHOD. DOES ANYONE HAVE INFO OR SITE LOCATIONWHERE I CAN GET AN IDEA OF HOW THE METHOD WORKS? FRANK CARUSO from ghinde@inconnect.com Wed Jan 14 13:52:03 1998 be forged)) 0000 (209.140.67.148) Subject: Re: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? I use heat and a vise ,but I find that I also need to do some filing afterin order to get the node flat . I find it really helps when planing. ----------From: Thoman, Brian Subject: RE: ??? How long of wait before planing cane???Date: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 8:29 AM I also use a vise to straighten the nodes. I haven't had a problem yet,although I'd like to hear from people who've done this more than I. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 10:20 AM Subject: Re: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? andwould like some input. I flattened the nodes with heat and a vise, ala"Famous" Wayne's book, and it works great. After flattening, it wastime to straighten the split strips at each node. Since heating andvising works so well to flatten, I used it to straighten as well. Theresults were amazing to me. I can totally straighten a strip in justafew minutes. Anyone else tried this? Are there shortcomings, etc.?? Harry Boyd from mrj@seanet.com Wed Jan 14 13:59:33 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04336 for Subject: Re: C-CLAMP FOR CANE I would like to know the answer my self to this question. In addition Iwould like to point out that writing in all caps is the equivalent ofshouting. I'm sure you didn't mean this.Martin Jensen-----Original Message----- Subject: C-CLAMP FOR CANE JUST READ A REFERENCE TO USING A "C-CLAMP METHOD" OF SPLITTINGSTRIPS.I HAVE BEEN READING THE SITE FOR SEVERAL MONTHS AND THIS THE FIRSTTIMEI HAVE READ OF THIS METHOD. DOES ANYONE HAVE INFO OR SITE LOCATIONWHERE I CAN GET AN IDEA OF HOW THE METHOD WORKS? FRANK CARUSO from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jan 14 14:11:56 1998 Subject: tapers mac-creator="4D4F5353" Since the response was so overwhelming to my stress question.. I guessi'll choose a distance that gets us close to 180,000 ? Jerry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jan 14 15:00:31 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: C-CLAMP FOR CANE Frank Caruso wrote: JUST READ A REFERENCE TO USING A "C-CLAMP METHOD" OF SPLITTINGSTRIPS. Sir D bridfly suggested the method he uses several months back. Basically what I did was split in halves, then halves into thirds. Oncein thirds, affix two C-clamps upside down to work bench. To split thethirds into sixths, measure carefully one-half the width of the stripand mark at approximately 5 points. Using these marks as targets, splitcarefully and slowly by wedging your thumbs against each other. If thesplit starts to wander, brace the against the two clamps, and bendbefore splitting any further. Let's see if I can illustrate: Split||| | |edge--> | | | from jczimny@dol.net Wed Jan 14 15:01:12 1998 Subject: Re: Titebond II Grhghlndr wrote: I was just thinking to myself today what would happen if you used one ofthenew glues for wood such as titebond . I am sure that it is much strongerthanhide glue. What are your thoughts guys?Yep. It'll work fine. the problem is that one doesn't have much opentime.John from RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU Wed Jan 14 15:10:01 1998 V2R3)with BSMTP id 2366; Wed, 14 Jan 98 16:09:26 EST MAINE.MAINE.EDU (LMail V1.2c/1.8c) with RFC822 id 6673; Wed, 14 Jan1998 16:09:25 -0500Subject: Re: Straightening Strips (Was:How long of wait before planingcane) Darryl, Are you referring to straightening sections once glued up? Or doyoumean prior to planing? --Bob. from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Jan 14 15:25:38 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Titebond II Darryl I have used Titebond II Extend and it performs about like regular TitebondII.The extended time, however , is just about double the normal andconsidering thecost, seems like a bit of overkill. If the time is too short, find anotheradhesive rather than spend your money on the extend from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 14 15:27:17 1998 Subject: Re: heat treating In a message dated 1/13/98 8:16:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com writes: and it made me think that the heat treating formula that Walton Powellgave me is probably right on; 250 degrees for 1 1/2-2 hours300 degrees for 1 hour375-400 degrees for 30 minutes Is this heat treating an entire culm, strips or a glued blank?I can see that if it is an entire culm this would give the resultsyou talk about, but if it's strips or a glued blank, this will likelyturn your bamboo into a pile of ash. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Jan 14 15:28:56 1998 Subject: Re: tapers In a message dated 1/14/98 8:16:19 PM, you wrote: Jerry - Since all this goes back to Garrison, and he apparently came upwithhis curves based on 50 feet of line, I suggest 50 feet be the standard,unlessotherwise specified by the rod designer. from rmoon@dns.ida.net Wed Jan 14 15:36:08 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Jerry Snider wrote: Same thing as with Titebond II though, be careful with the heatwhen straightening the blank. Too much heat will make it let go. Darryl Hayashida Can you provide some some frame of reference (even crude) with regardtowhat is "too much heat" when working with Titebond II (aside from if itdelaminates you know its too much)? Would be very useful. When heating a rod for straightening, I use a little formula that is purelysubjective, but which seems to work for me. NUMBER 1!!!!!Work very slowly. If you heat the outside of the rod to thetemperature needed to straighten, you have heated too much. The insidewillnot be heated at all. Therefore, heat for a moment or two over an alcohollamp or a low setting heat gun and feel the surface. If it is uncomfortableyou are working too fast. Then allow the residual heat to penetrate for aminute or two, then reheat. Never let the surface of the cane get hotterthan you can comfortably hang onto.Repeat and repeat until the wholestickis the same temp throughout, then bend to suit. I cannot emphasize enoughthat if the surface is the slightest bit too warm to be comfortable, it istoo hot. This is primarily why I prefer still to use an alcohol lamp. Itis one of the coolest sources of heat I can find. Heat guns are toochancy. Ralph from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jan 14 15:39:09 1998 Subject: Re: tapers mac-creator="4D4F5353" Tom I tried some of the tapers with 50'.. man does that end up with someserious stress Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jan 14 15:44:37 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmaking as a Business w/taxable expenses mac-creator="4D4F5353" Ted, all New list member Ted Godfrey, out of the goodness of his heart,(bless him months postings, it can be found on the archive page under annotatedarchives, Check it out..is it worth the trouble, any suggestions for improvment.. thanx JWF from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Jan 14 17:19:45 1998 Subject: Re: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? In a message dated 98-01-14 10:26:45 EST, you write: Darryl Hayashida Good advice, Sir D. I tried your C-clamp method on my second rodlastweek, and had good results. >> Hi! I'm assuming this info. was on the list before I got on. Would you be sokindas to give me the approximate location in the archives? My splittingskillsare not what they could be, I'm sure. Thanks.Davy from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jan 14 17:50:04 1998 SAA12610; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:49:51 -0500 Subject: Re: tapers DC224D86546D7121BA41C62D" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- DC224D86546D7121BA41C62D Tom / Jerry I do not think one size (in this case distance) fits all. I sent messageearlier toJerry and here is a suggestion: And for the big dawgs a distance of 60' We may have to play with distances but I think it will represent truerstressesin a rod fishing it's intended distance. I would hate to see the stresscurve ofmyYellow Rose at 60' when I needed it to fish under 20'. Chris TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 1/14/98 8:16:19 PM, you wrote: i'll choose a distance that gets us close to 180,000 ? Jerry - Since all this goes back to Garrison, and he apparently came upwithhis curves based on 50 feet of line, I suggest 50 feet be the standard,unlessotherwise specified by the rod designer. --------------DC224D86546D7121BA41C62D begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------DC224D86546D7121BA41C62D-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jan 14 17:50:45 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo rod mag. Russ and Steve,I e-mailed the people about the magazine and received a reply the nextday.Maybe they didn't get your inquiry.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jan 14 17:56:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Titebond II and Archives How do you check archives? from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jan 14 18:00:56 1998 TAA15279; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:00:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Thanks for the help! 2FE74C4DC17A41EDE4E59010" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 2FE74C4DC17A41EDE4E59010 Tom And I will add my amen to that. My pleasure to help. Chris TSmithwick wrote: Jerry and Hank - Thanks for the kind words. One of the many things I havelearned from people like Bill Fink, who have pursued this hobby longerthan Ihave, is that after a while there is more satisfaction in watching a newperson develop skills, than there is in your own accomplishments. Also, Ihavelearned more from the list and continue to do so than I could ever giveback. --------------2FE74C4DC17A41EDE4E59010 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------2FE74C4DC17A41EDE4E59010-- from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Jan 14 18:24:20 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Grayling The Grayling CVB is on-line. Don't remember their url. Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 14 18:25:14 1998 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips (Was:How long of wait before planing cane) In a message dated 1/14/98 1:17:52 PM Pacific Standard Time,RHD360@MAINE.MAINE.EDU writes: Darryl, Are you referring to straightening sections once glued up? Or doyoumean prior to planing? --Bob. Prior to planing. There was an article in The Planing Form where someoneused an iron and their planing form to straighten a glued up blank. I triedit, and it got the little kinks out, but not the long sweeping crookedness.I didn't pursue the method too much, but it might have some merit. Darryl Hayashida from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Jan 14 18:52:06 1998 Subject: Pt. 2 In a message dated 98-01-14 10:26:45 EST, you write: None that I can see. Darryl Whitead (Famous Darryl?) showed me thistrick afew years ago and I've never gone back. I use a big vise and tend to berather heavy-handed, however, and have often seen the pressure just lifttheenamel right off the strip, but I usually stop short of actual damage to thefibers of the cane. A new feature of my set-up is a pair of aluminum pads in the vise. My visehas deeply textured steel jaws and I noticed a faint cross-hatching at thenode in a recently finished rod (can't see worth spit) so I added the pads.As an added benefit, the aluminum seems to distribute heat better,whereasthose massive steel jaws have got to be a world-class heat sink. While I'm about it, I need to tell you all (too many names to mention,really)how much benefit and encouragement I've received since I joined this listjusta little over two months ago. All of your experience, knowledge and goodhumor has spurred me to increase the quality of thought and work I putinto myrods. And I sincerely hope that somebody somewhere gets a little of thesame from my meager input. Appreciatively,Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Jan 14 19:32:41 1998 Subject: Re: Re: ??? How long of wait before planing cane??? Been doing it that way for a while-sometimes on the second heating thenodetries to go back to its original shape-I usually let the nodes coolwellbeforestraightening.Hank. from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Jan 14 19:48:14 1998 Subject: Re: tapers The individual maker can determine the casting distances for aparticularrod but personally I usually use the following: line #2 - #3 45'line #4 50'line #5 55'line #6 65' I've never make a #7 rod but I know that for the FFF instructor a 70' rollcast is required from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jan 14 19:59:36 1998 Subject: archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Grhghlndr archives are located under the RMA icon at http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm JWF from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Jan 14 20:19:39 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: heat treating I'm pretty sure that he heat treats the entire culm in that he said hewould send me a treated culm and I doubt that he would take the time tojust do one. ----------From: SalarFly[SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 1:06 PM Subject: Re: heat treating In a message dated 1/13/98 8:16:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com writes: and it made me think that the heat treating formula that WaltonPowellgave me is probably right on; 250 degrees for 1 1/2-2 hours300 degrees for 1 hour375-400 degrees for 30 minutes Is this heat treating an entire culm, strips or a glued blank?I can see that if it is an entire culm this would give the resultsyou talk about, but if it's strips or a glued blank, this will likelyturn your bamboo into a pile of ash. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 14 20:31:45 1998 Subject: Straightening Strips - Flattening Nodes In reference to using a clothes iron to straighten strips,what I really wanted to do was heat my vise jaws.This is how I envisoned it working:Two vises set up, one with electrically heated jaws,one normal. Once you have the temperature set,and you know the time needed to flatten nodes,you could line up strips next to each other, nodesaligned and press and heat the nodes of severalstrips at once. Once they are flattened with heat,you take them out and squeeze them with theunheated vise to let them cool under pressure.In the mean time you can be heating and pressinganother set of strips. A heated vise can also be used to straighten crookedstrips. Any electricians out there have any ideas onhow to set up a vise with heated jaws? Darryl Hayashida from WDHCJL@aol.com Wed Jan 14 20:31:46 1998 Subject: Re: Pt. 2 In a message dated 98-01-14 19:56:09 EST, you write: Just a note, if you take a file and slowly close the jaws bit at a time, anddo some filing you can eliminate those marks and the need for any "pad"surface. Takes a few minutes bit you are "cured" from that point forward.Doug the Demarests fan Hall from mrj@seanet.com Wed Jan 14 20:53:15 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03467 for Subject: Re: Straightening Strips - Flattening Nodes The question I have here is that when you flatten the strips I thought thatthe bamboo should be warm, hence soft and pliable first. Some of my nodesIwould probably break if I flattened them without first getting them niceandsoft. I don't see how you could do this with this method.Martin Jensen-----Original Message----- Subject: Straightening Strips - Flattening Nodes In reference to using a clothes iron to straighten strips,what I really wanted to do was heat my vise jaws.This is how I envisoned it working:Two vises set up, one with electrically heated jaws,one normal. Once you have the temperature set,and you know the time needed to flatten nodes,you could line up strips next to each other, nodesaligned and press and heat the nodes of severalstrips at once. Once they are flattened with heat,you take them out and squeeze them with theunheated vise to let them cool under pressure.In the mean time you can be heating and pressinganother set of strips. A heated vise can also be used to straighten crookedstrips. Any electricians out there have any ideas onhow to set up a vise with heated jaws? Darryl Hayashida from MasjC1@aol.com Wed Jan 14 20:57:24 1998 Subject: Splitting Cane Last Sunday I flamed and split my first culm. I was able to get 11 usablestrips from the tip and 15 from the butt all with only 4 bamboo cuts andoneblister. All the splits up until the last were very even and uniform.Splitting the 1/2 inch into 1/4 inch was a problem. I was using a bamboofroand followed (tried to anyway) Wayne's method. Once the strip started towander, at about the second node from the tip end I could not get it toreverse course no matter which way I bent the strip. All in all I got enoughstrips for the first rod, just more planing than I was planning on. I guess that I just need more practice. Will keep you posted on progress. Mark Cole from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Jan 14 21:06:06 1998 Subject: Re: Grayling I think this is their email:The Grayling CVB is on-line. Don't remember their url. Brian visitor@grayling-mi.com I think this is their email: from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 14 21:50:44 1998 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips - Flattening Nodes In a message dated 1/14/98 7:11:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,mrj@seanet.comwrites: The question I have here is that when you flatten the strips I thoughtthatthe bamboo should be warm, hence soft and pliable first. Some of mynodes Iwould probably break if I flattened them without first getting them niceandsoft. I don't see how you could do this with this method. Don't crank down with a lot of pressure until the bamboo heats up, thenslowly start tightening the vise as temp in the bamboo increases. Darryl Hayashida from gwr@seanet.com Wed Jan 14 21:54:04 1998 TAA06223 for ; Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:54:01 Subject: Re: Bamboo rod mag. Could be, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and make another attempt. Russ At 06:31 PM 1/14/98 EST, you wrote:Russ and Steve,I e-mailed the people about the magazine and received a reply the nextday.Maybe they didn't get your inquiry.Bret from EMiller257@aol.com Wed Jan 14 22:23:01 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting Cane Mark, try using an ordinary putty knife instead of a froe. You can reallygrip the handle so that when the split wanders you can torque the cane intheproper direction with your other hand. I learned this from a friend ofWayne'sand it works very well..Ed Miller from lblan@provide.net Wed Jan 14 22:44:39 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting Cane During the "note from the wife week" at Grayrock last year, I spent aboutanhour splitting while Wayne stood by and chanted the mantra.... "twist, don'tpush.... twist, don't push...." Wayne's method is very similar to Sir D's, without the C-clamps. Waynestoodand told me when to bend out, and when to bend in. I was actually able towatch the split and move it back and forth at will. It was well worth the practice time.... and as an added plus, I haven't hadto replace a pair of gloves since I began using this method! BTW...... ifyou are using the froe, turn it around, and use it blunt end first afteryou've started the initial split. I've found the froe to be a bit too muchafter the pieces become smaller. I made a tool that is smaller, with ahandle that locates my hand close to the culm. I find I have much bettercontrol that way. Larry Blan Last Sunday I flamed and split my first culm. I was able to get 11 usablestrips from the tip and 15 from the butt all with only 4 bamboo cuts andoneblister. All the splits up until the last were very even and uniform.Splitting the 1/2 inch into 1/4 inch was a problem. I was using a bamboofroand followed (tried to anyway) Wayne's method. Once the strip started towander, at about the second node from the tip end I could not get it toreverse course no matter which way I bent the strip. All in all I gotenoughstrips for the first rod, just more planing than I was planning on. from santiago@ricochet.net Wed Jan 14 23:04:28 1998 Subject: Re: Andys cane hi all, when considering the current cane situation among rodmakers in the us,it is important to state what is known. i also want to acknowledgethose who have encouraged this art form by supplying materials,information, and enthusiasm! before andy royer, purchasing quality cane to build a rod or two wasdifficult to the point of impossible (unless you had connections).please refer to archive around a year ago and you will read about thedifficulties and when cane was actually delivered, the quality (poor touseless). since andy royer's visit to china the abundance of cane and the price ofcane have improved 1000%. again, something i do know is that when thereis an abundance of any thing, folks can get very critical of thequality. we are a capitalist society and that is how it works here. as far one supplier verses another we still must work with what we knowregardless of loyalties, friendships, or other emotional unknowns. theplace where this cane is grown is very, very limited and any supplier oftonkin cane buys from the same very, very limited area. (luis marden'sthe angler's bamboo) we know that this is a crop dependent on weather.we also know that for the last 5 years this area has been under water.and we know that there difficulties when american citizens work withother governments. (any newspaper, any day) i also know that there was a test of cane strips by michigan rodmakers.i think the idea of testing cane is a good one if a good test could bedeveloped. this particular test has at least three flaws: the stripswere of different thickness ( some looked like they came from the top ofcane and others looked like they came from butt ends of cane), thedistance between nodes varied which produces different readings andlastly, the cane came from different harvests which is critical withthis agricultural product. bottom line, even if you haven't read the above is that i am grateful will continue to do his best to provide the best possible productavailable. i am also grateful for the other suppliers in that theycontinue to support our art form. i offer that if you are need, caneshop around it all comes from the same very limited little space on ourplanet...unless of course you know someone and can get a piece of thedense, straw colored, flawless, low node, beauty. leo from mrj@seanet.com Wed Jan 14 23:16:45 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA10367 for Subject: Re: Straightening Strips - Flattening Nodes I guess that would work. It seems that you would not get good heattransferwithout good contact though.Martin Jensen-----Original Message- ---- Subject: Re: Straightening Strips - Flattening Nodes In a message dated 1/14/98 7:11:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,mrj@seanet.comwrites: The question I have here is that when you flatten the strips I thoughtthatthe bamboo should be warm, hence soft and pliable first. Some of mynodes Iwould probably break if I flattened them without first getting themniceandsoft. I don't see how you could do this with this method. Don't crank down with a lot of pressure until the bamboo heats up, thenslowly start tightening the vise as temp in the bamboo increases. Darryl Hayashida from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 14 23:44:02 1998 ix14.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Which rod taper? Well, I've started on my second rod and I would appreciate some input. Icannot decide on a taper. I want a 7 foot rod thet will cast a 7wt line.But there's more. Since I fish in the south, I would like to catch smallmouth bass and occasionally a largemouth bass. Now bass differconsiderably from the trout. To catch a big trout, you need the right bug.To catch a big bass you need the right big bug. Fish little bugs andcatch little fish. Dave Whitlock recommends a fast rod with a stiff butt.This is in agreement with what I've learned about fishing for bass. Theproblem is most fly rod design is for trout fishing and does not completelyfill the bill for bass fishing. Hard to practice finesse when you arecasting the equivalent of a rubber boot. Recommendations for a good 7 ftbass rod will be appreciated. Off the subject. Buck Brothers manufactures a 3" block plane. It's notmuch of a plane but if you drill a 1/8" hole through each side of the planeabout 1/2" in front of the pin that is there and about half way between thesole and top of the plane and put a steel pin through the holes(a 8 pennynail), You will have constructed a dandy little box scraper. Place thjeiron in front of the reversed pressure plate and tighten the screw tosecure the blade and it's ready to use. The cost of the plane is about $6at Home Depot. I threaded the iron suopport and added a bolt to adjust thecutting angle slightly. Works great. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com P.S. Any recommendations on tapers for bass rods would be greatlyappreciated. from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Thu Jan 15 01:45:49 1998 JAA19437 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:44:57+0200 (EET) Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: RE: Splitting Cane Last Sunday I flamed and split my first culm. I was able to get 11 usablestrips from the tip and 15 from the butt all with only 4 bamboo cuts and oneblister. All the splits up until the last were very even and uniform.Splitting the 1/2 inch into 1/4 inch was a problem. I was using a bamboo froand followed (tried to anyway) Wayne's method. Once the strip started towander, at about the second node from the tip end I could not get it toreverse course no matter which way I bent the strip. All in all I got enoughstrips for the first rod, just more planing than I was planning on. I guess that I just need more practice. Will keep you posted on progress. Mark Cole Mark,What was the largest diameter of your culm? Just curious because I amfacing the same adventure in the future, and it is good to have something to compare with. Seppo/Finland from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Jan 15 04:52:52 1998 Subject: Bamboo test results The purpose of finding a test for the strength of bamboo was todeterminewhat effect mold (that lingered long enough to leave a greying effect intheinner cell structure)had on the cell structure of bamboo. Since the lastposting I have also found improperly stored samples of pre embargo thatshowedsigns of mold (the greying of cell structure ) that didn't test well either.And to dispell the 'location' myth - samples of tip sections do as well asbutt sections (taken from the very top end of 1 - 1 1/4" historic samplesandthe very top end of current 1 3/4"-2"). The range for harvest to harvestsamplings - and location to location differences appears to be about 3/8#.As in the original post I am referring to a very specific example ofmoldeffect - a greying seen in the inner cell structure and encouraged others(whohave this specific problem)to do tests as well not wanting to act unfairly-but to the best of my knowledge no one else ( which perhaps shows thelimitedsamples) has posted their test results - I hope that in the near futureothers(if any) will share their finding.I am somewhat confussed here - I was told that the bamboo thatshowedgreying effect in the inner cell structure was a very isolated case - andyetthe reaction seems to indicate either a misunderstanding of what the moldeffect is or a broader spectrum perhaps. It seems that this thread hasbeenmore driven by emotion and when a suggestion to bring fact to it arisesfolkspanic. Let's back this up and start fresh. There has always been questions concerning different effects - heattreating - flaming - fuming - gasing and a endless list of things does tobamboo. But few have ever taken the time to look at them in a controlledfashion. Don Anderson is the only one that I know of that has sat down anddidany testing. Well - here is a situation that some makers were concernedwith -so lets get some answers (other than emotional ones).It's said that my testing is incorrect - I'm open to comments - thiswassupposed to be a discussion of test procedures as well - please post yourspecific test(s) and your findings. from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jan 15 05:22:43 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA25865 for; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:24:21 GMT Subject: Re: Vices and whole bamboo straightening At 21:15 14/01/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 98-01-14 19:56:09 EST, you write: has deeply textured steel jaws and I noticed a faint cross-hatching atthenode in a recently finished rod (can't see worth spit) so I added the pads. Just a note, if you take a file and slowly close the jaws bit at a time, anddo some filing you can eliminate those marks and the need for any "pad"surface. Takes a few minutes bit you are "cured" from that pointforward.Doug the Demarests fan Hall Vice (USA vise) faces: I also use a huge Record engineer's vice, and ittoo had those nasty deep diamond-hatched jaw faces. My 'easy way'recoursewas to have the local engineering works mill the jaw faces dead flat. Ican't think that those heavily textured faces would often be appropriate toany job I'd need to do. To be able to mill these faces it is necessary tohave replaceable/removable jaw faces, but I think most high quality viceshave this facility. Bamboo straightening: I use thin (under 1"), whole, unsplit culms to makelong landing net handles. Because we often fish from the bank here inBritain, and sometimes have to land the fish over near bank weedbeds,longhandles are oft-times required. Does anyone have experience ofstraighteningunsplit culms? At present I straighten (sort of) by heating with a heat gunthen correcting either side of the nodes. This is ok to a point, but itfails to make much of a lasting impression on the long sweeping curvesbetween the nodes. These are easy enough to correct in split strips, but anabsolute bastard in whole culms, whether pre heat treated or not. John Cooper (England). from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jan 15 07:58:42 1998 Subject: Re: tapers Chris, Wayne - I have no problem with your methods, which are quiteappropiateto the way you expect your rods to be used. My thought is that if astandardline length is used, someone browsing through the taper archives can tellat aglance what type of rod he is looking at. He could tell, for example thatoneof Chris' 3 weights is going to be a light model, and one of Wayne's 6weightsis going to be powerful. If the designer wants to put in a note stating thatthe rod was designed for a certain line length, and a certain type offishing,so much the better.The presence of tapers by departed makers further complicates things,how dowe know what Leonard or Cross intended? from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Thu Jan 15 08:01:07 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:00:33 -0500 Subject: Re: tapers There is one issue with using different line lengths for the differentweight rods, and that is that the graphs are then not comparable. Wewill have gstandardized, but we couldn't compare directly a 4 to a threeweight. Might I suggest that we produce a single standardized graphthat with three lines plotted on it, one each for assumptions of 30 ft,50 ft, and 70 ft. This way, we could see haw a given rod would beexpected to load under different situations, and hava an easy means tocompare rods of various weights. Wayne Catt wrote: The individual maker can determine the casting distances for aparticularrod but personally I usually use the following: line #2 - #3 45'line #4 50'line #5 55'line #6 65' I've never make a #7 rod but I know that for the FFF instructor a 70' rollcast is required from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Thu Jan 15 08:06:56 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:06:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo test results Wayne, In my boring, everyday work I am a statistician. I would be more thanhappy to work with you to help quantify the some of the following (mywife seems to think I'm very good at removing emotion...) culm to culm variability within culm variabilityeffect of differing heat treatment or regimens or anything else you would like to model. Wayne Catt wrote: The purpose of finding a test for the strength of bamboo was todeterminewhat effect mold (that lingered long enough to leave a greying effect intheinner cell structure)had on the cell structure of bamboo. Since the lastposting I have also found improperly stored samples of pre embargo thatshowedsigns of mold (the greying of cell structure ) that didn't test well either.And to dispell the 'location' myth - samples of tip sections do as well asbutt sections (taken from the very top end of 1 - 1 1/4" historic samplesandthe very top end of current 1 3/4"-2"). The range for harvest to harvestsamplings - and location to location differences appears to be about3/8#.As in the original post I am referring to a very specific example ofmoldeffect - a greying seen in the inner cell structure and encouraged others(whohave this specific problem)to do tests as well not wanting to actunfairly -but to the best of my knowledge no one else ( which perhaps shows thelimitedsamples) has posted their test results - I hope that in the near futureothers(if any) will share their finding.I am somewhat confussed here - I was told that the bamboo thatshowedgreying effect in the inner cell structure was a very isolated case - andyetthe reaction seems to indicate either a misunderstanding of what themoldeffect is or a broader spectrum perhaps. It seems that this thread hasbeenmore driven by emotion and when a suggestion to bring fact to it arisesfolkspanic. Let's back this up and start fresh.There has always been questions concerning different effects - heattreating - flaming - fuming - gasing and a endless list of things does tobamboo. But few have ever taken the time to look at them in a controlledfashion. Don Anderson is the only one that I know of that has sat downand didany testing. Well - here is a situation that some makers were concernedwith -so lets get some answers (other than emotional ones).It's said that my testing is incorrect - I'm open to comments - thiswassupposed to be a discussion of test procedures as well - please post yourspecific test(s) and your findings. from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Jan 15 08:31:45 1998 Subject: Testing Bamboo The only qualified test for judging bamboo that I have any faith in isbuilding a rodwith it. Everything else is mere "data" and nothing else. from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Jan 15 09:39:33 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id QAA22812 for; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:00:19 GMT Subject: Re: Vices and whole bamboo straightening J.Cooper wrote: At 21:15 14/01/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 98-01-14 19:56:09 EST, you write: Bamboo straightening: I use thin (under 1"), whole, unsplit culms tomakelong landing net handles. Does anyone have experience of straighteningunsplit culms? At present I straighten (sort of) by heating with a heatgunthen correcting either side of the nodes. This is ok to a point, but itfails to make much of a lasting impression on the long sweeping curvesbetween the nodes. These are easy enough to correct in split strips, butanabsolute bastard in whole culms, whether pre heat treated or not. John; I have some culms like you are talking about, so I went to work onyourproblem and had some success with the following method.I steamed a 1" culm for one hour then used two pieces of 1" angle ironas astraightening guide.Placing the culm inside the "irons" and binding withwire I gotmost of the bends out. I then used a fan head on my propane torch andheated the"irons" until they were just hot to the touch and let them cool completely.When Iremoved the wire wrap and inspected the culm, it was almost perfectlystraight.I like your long handle net idea and I plan to use my test culm to buildmeone. Do you make the hoop out of bamboo also? Do you think a one-piecelong handlenet is feasable?Hope this is helps. Bryant C. from jfoster@gte.net Thu Jan 15 11:22:30 1998 Subject: tapers mac-creator="4D4F5353" Tom, all I have updated your 5'6" taper on the archive, see if this acceptable..Looks great at 50', must be quite a stout rod...might have to build one..2 pc., have you done a conversion? The way this looks I might just tune each rod, for distance cast.. thatwould give everyone at a glance the optimum distance for each rod??? Is there an optimum stressvalue.,Wayne,Chris,Tom,John,Hank,Ralph,George,Anyone?????? (180,000?) John Whitaker--a lot of work...download one of the programs and you canwork the variables, kind of do it yourself experimentation,(meant on apositive note)RegardsJWF from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Jan 15 11:24:19 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA06890 for; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:26:03 GMT Subject: Re: Vices and whole bamboo straightening At 09:36 15/01/98 -0600, you wrote: J.Cooper wrote: At 21:15 14/01/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 98-01-14 19:56:09 EST, you write: Bamboo straightening: I use thin (under 1"), whole, unsplit culms tomakelong landing net handles. Does anyone have experience of straighteningunsplit culms? At present I straighten (sort of) by heating with a heatgunthen correcting either side of the nodes. This is ok to a point, but itfails to make much of a lasting impression on the long sweeping curvesbetween the nodes. These are easy enough to correct in split strips, butanabsolute bastard in whole culms, whether pre heat treated or not. John; I have some culms like you are talking about, so I went to work onyourproblem and had some success with the following method.I steamed a 1" culm for one hour then used two pieces of 1" angle ironas astraightening guide.Placing the culm inside the "irons" and binding withwire I gotmost of the bends out. I then used a fan head on my propane torch andheated the"irons" until they were just hot to the touch and let them coolcompletely.When Iremoved the wire wrap and inspected the culm, it was almost perfectlystraight.I like your long handle net idea and I plan to use my test culm to buildmeone. Do you make the hoop out of bamboo also? Do you think a one-piecelonghandlenet is feasable?Hope this is helps. Bryant C. Bryant Thank's for that input - I'll try that. I've made bent ash hoops in various sizes, usually from two epoxy-gluedthinlathes to make a quarter inch thickness overall, by 1" deep. That's strong -believe me. I make a tear drop shape by bending hot saturated ash roundsomething of the required diameter, and add a third laminate at thebottomof the tear drop to add stiffness. Nets are laced on in the old way, througha continuous lace in an external groove. I through bolt neatly ontohome-made spreader blocks. These are cut from blocks of aluminium(bastardjob without a mill), then attached to the pole with a regular three eighthsmale thread to the female-threaded pole fitting (normal in Britain). Theydolook good, and are suitable for use alongside bamboo rods. The poles can be made up to any length you feel you can transport. Mylongerones have a middle ferrule for ease of transport. The straightened polesarebored through, the nodes filed down smooth, then the pole is tortoishellpatterned overall with a flame or hot air gun (touch and turn, touch andturn). I sold about 25 of the above, but packed up the semi-pro output when aproper profesional (at that time a friend) got pissed-off with me for goinginto competition with him. Fair enough I suppose. He still doesn't talk tome though. Two swear-words in the above. That Josie has left her mark on all of us. John Cooper (England) from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Jan 15 11:31:21 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo test results Wayne,It seems to me that your testing method is nondiscriminitory andconsidering the spacing of your supports vs. the probe ,nodal spacing hasnoeffect on the test results. Keep up the good work. There seems to be acertainemotionalism involved here. BTW-John couldn't help me on the nodalspacing onthe 98 rod strip so I'm doing it nodeless-he asked that I plane it .020 fatvs. .002 fat-the taper is yours on pg. 227 -7'6", 3pc.,4wgt,right?Regards,Hank. from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Jan 15 11:34:43 1998 Subject: Re: Vices and whole bamboo straightening The chinese use a specially designed tool for straightening whole culms.Agoodplace to look for such a thing would be Hida in Ca. Address info listed withRodmakers tools etc. from rfairfie@cisco.com Thu Jan 15 11:39:10 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting Cane Mark, I had the same problem when I split my first culm. I sent a post tothe list, and one of the folks out there told me about a technique that usesa wood chisle and a 1 3/8 inch diameter dowell mounted to a base. The dowel should ideally, IMHO, be about 3' long, and mounted on the baseso that it won't roll. Forgive the lousy art. (-: -----------------------------------------------| dowell |------- --------------------------------------------- side view| base |---------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------| || ---------------------------------------------- || | dowell | || ---------------------------------------------- || base |---------------------------------------------------- top view After you have split your culm into six pieces, mark each node so thatwhensplit through the node, you will have four pieces of equal width. (forexample,if the section was 1" across the node, you would make three marks 1/4"apart) Once this has been done for all the nodes on the strip, you place the stripon top of the dowell, pith side down, and using a wood chisle, split through mark in the center of each node on the strip. This will take care of thesplit going across a node in a straight line (that was my biggest problem).Then, from the first node that you split, insert the chisle through the nodeand twist it, causing the bamboo to split towards the end and towards thenextnode. Using the chisle, or some other thin tool, walk the split towards theend of the culm, and then towards the node adjacent to where you started. Repeat the process for the two resulting strips, and you will have fourstrips(1/4" wide in my example). Repeat for the five remaining sections ofculm, andyou will have 24 strips. I have been able to get at least 20 usable stripsthisway--on occasion, a split gets away from me, but that's show biz. If you want 32 strips, just split the culm into eight sections before usingthe fixture. Or if you have trouble using the froe (or knife in my case), youcan use the fixture once the culm has been split in half--your choice. On thing that I did before using the fixture was to remove the diaphramsascompletely as I could so that the culm fit solidly over the dowel. Good luck! Roger from MasjC1@aol.com Wed Jan 14 19:04:27 1998Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:45:24 EST Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Masj C1 Subject: Splitting CaneContent-transfer-encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Last Sunday I flamed and split my first culm. I was able to get 11 usablestrips from the tip and 15 from the butt all with only 4 bamboo cuts andoneblister. All the splits up until the last were very even and uniform.Splitting the 1/2 inch into 1/4 inch was a problem. I was using a bamboofroand followed (tried to anyway) Wayne's method. Once the strip started towander, at about the second node from the tip end I could not get it toreverse course no matter which way I bent the strip. All in all I gotenoughstrips for the first rod, just more planing than I was planning on. I guess that I just need more practice. Will keep you posted on progress. Mark Cole from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Jan 15 11:42:56 1998 Subject: Re: Andys cane I am also grateful to Andy for his work on the cane situation. I am stillworking on my first rod, but Andy was great to deal with. I don't haveexperience with Demerest, and mean no disrespect towards them. I doknowthat Andy was good to work with, and I am so far pleased with thematerialI purchased from him. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: leo santiago Subject: Re: Andys caneDate: Wednesday, January 14, 1998 12:58 PM hi all, when considering the current cane situation among rodmakers in the us,it is important to state what is known. i also want to acknowledgethose who have encouraged this art form by supplying materials,information, and enthusiasm! before andy royer, purchasing quality cane to build a rod or two wasdifficult to the point of impossible (unless you had connections).please refer to archive around a year ago and you will read about thedifficulties and when cane was actually delivered, the quality (poor touseless). since andy royer's visit to china the abundance of cane and the price ofcane have improved 1000%. again, something i do know is that whenthereis an abundance of any thing, folks can get very critical of thequality. we are a capitalist society and that is how it works here. as far one supplier verses another we still must work with what weknowregardless of loyalties, friendships, or other emotional unknowns. theplace where this cane is grown is very, very limited and any supplier oftonkin cane buys from the same very, very limited area. (luis marden'sthe angler's bamboo) we know that this is a crop dependent on weather.we also know that for the last 5 years this area has been under water.and we know that there difficulties when american citizens work withother governments. (any newspaper, any day) i also know that there was a test of cane strips by michigan rodmakers.i think the idea of testing cane is a good one if a good test could bedeveloped. this particular test has at least three flaws: the stripswere of different thickness ( some looked like they came from the top ofcane and others looked like they came from butt ends of cane), thedistance between nodes varied which produces different readings andlastly, the cane came from different harvests which is critical withthis agricultural product. bottom line, even if you haven't read the above is that i am grateful will continue to do his best to provide the best possible productavailable. i am also grateful for the other suppliers in that theycontinue to support our art form. i offer that if you are need, caneshop around it all comes from the same very limited little space on ourplanet...unless of course you know someone and can get a piece of thedense, straw colored, flawless, low node, beauty. leo from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jan 15 12:40:43 1998 Subject: Re: tapers In a message dated 1/15/98 5:32:52 PM, you wrote: Jerry - Yes the curve and the numbers look right to me. The rod is quick,butwill load with a short line. I would encourage you to try the one piececonstruction, it really is an easy rod to build, and will fit in most vehiclesone way or another. Personally, I would not bother to change the taper ifyouadd a ferrule, the change in action will be minimal IMHO. from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Jan 15 13:38:34 1998 SVR4) Subject: REC hexagonal winding checks Has anyone had experience of these? (See NWHEX at http://www.flyfishers.com/rec/#comp) TIA. from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Jan 15 15:16:04 1998 Subject: Re: REC hexagonal winding checks Just ordered one. Haven't received it yet. ----------From: Thomas Pindelski Subject: REC hexagonal winding checksDate: Thursday, January 15, 1998 11:00 AM Has anyone had experience of these? (See NWHEX at http://www.flyfishers.com/rec/#comp) TIA. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jan 15 16:16:09 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: oven shell Wayne have you sent out the oven shell and when can I expect it and how muchwill I owe you. Sorry guys but he doesn't answer email. Patrick from royera@sprynet.com Thu Jan 15 16:33:34 1998 m6.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA28603 for; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:33:27 -0800 Subject: My cane-Andy Royer Two years ago, I was asked by a small collection of professional rodbuilders to import tonkin cane because they were having great difficultyprocuring usable material. My first shipment of cane (in January of '97)was said to have too many green pieces and too many slash-marks andburnmarks. Last summer, I set off to China to correct these problems. I thenimported bamboo with less than 4% slash marks, very little green color orburn marks. The response to this last shipment has been generallypositive,I have heard several builders remark that this bamboo was smaller andlighter than they would like, mold has also been a problem. The reason that my some of my cane is smaller than Demerest and othercaneis that it is missing the bottom metre of the pole, the Chinese cut off thebottom portion, which is the thickest and strongest portion of the cane, toremove any slash-marks. The mold is a problem for all of us in thisindustry and we are all taking measures to guard against future problems,though I imagine the problem will continue to surface periodically. As I stated in my posting when I returned from China last September, I amtrying to learn from all my buyers what is required from the bamboowhich Isupply. I want to hear from everyone who buys my bamboo so that I mayimprove the quality of what I import every time I sell this bamboo. Mygoalis to provide the best quality material possible. I am capable of listeningand learning from each and every one of you. If you are not satisfied withmy material, let me know and I will work hard to make you happy. The majority of people who have bought my bamboo have been very pleasedwithit. The vast majority of professional builders who have worked withbamboo decades. These men have received bamboo from the same pile as everyoneelse. I am grateful to all who have taken the time and energy to create a test tohelp determine the value of moldy or otherwise questionable bamboo. I,as much as anyone, am very curious as to the results of further tests. Iwould like nothing more that to learn if there are problems my cane. Ithank Wayne for stating that he was posting information simply so thatothers are aware of potential problems and that these results are notconclusive, that they are, "just a start." What are listservers such asthis for, if not for the sharing of information and ideas. Please keep the following in mind: -All tonkin cane imported for this market is coming from a very smallgeographic area. It is grown, harvested, processed and transported in asimilar fashion. The only difference in the bamboo sold in this country isthe amount or type of quality control, and, I suppose, the quality of thatquality control. I use whatever methods I think will work best to controlthe quality of material I buy and sell. -What you buy is a rigorously controlled natural material. I have seenthousands of pieces of tonkin cane and when I see some of the materialwhichbuyers tell me is not good enough for them, I am looking at material whichis in the top 10% in terms of quality. You are paying a premium price andwant the very best, you are getting the best. As I noted in my posting lastfall, less than one percent of this material is "perfect" after it dries. Iestimate that there are about 300 poles available per year (world- wide)which fall into this category (I found 40 out of 10,000 last July/August).All the rest have some amount of blemishes. I am not asking that buyers be grateful for what they have and use it all,if builders are suspect of the structural integrity of my or any bamboo,they should not use it to build a flyrod. I am simply providing informationwhich I hope sheds some light on this material which we so highly esteem. I will also thank those of you who have taken the time to write in on mybehalf. I have worked hard to procure the highest quality materialavailable. I am in my second year of importing bamboo specifically for theflyrod builder market, I try to continuously improve in every aspect of mybusiness. I have returned to China since my trip last summer. My goalthistime was to buy material which is grown without slash-marks so that Icouldprovide superior material. This bamboo will be cosmetically similar tomylast shipment, no slash marks (0%), no burn marks (0%) and very littlegreencolour, however, it will include the bottom portion of the cane. This caneis 12' x 2-2 1/2" and will be available this Spring. Thank you. Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx (For any WA State folks interested) While visiting Bamboo Gardensnurseryin Redmond last weekend. I found a potted Arundinaria amabilis (tonkin)plant in one of their greenhouses for sale ($60.00). It would not grow wellaround here but it might be fun to try. They only have the one plant, it isa rare find in these parts. Actually, it's pretty rare in this country.I've spoken to some growers in the U.S. who say they are growing tonkinbut from what they tell me about their plants, they are not growing the actualA. amabilis species. from royera@sprynet.com Thu Jan 15 16:33:41 1998 m6.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA28696 for; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:33:35 -0800 Subject: Re: Splitting cane There is a Japanese knife made specifically for splitting bamboo. It isdesigned for either right or left-handed people and it works very well. Thebrand name is Kiridashi and Bamboo Gardens of Washington [(425) 868- 5166]sells them for $42.00. Try your local listings for a Japanesenursery/store. Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Jan 15 17:11:09 1998 Subject: Re: oven shell Wayne, what are you making your oven shell out of? I am interested. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Coffey, Patrick W Subject: oven shellDate: Thursday, January 15, 1998 2:15 PM Wayne have you sent out the oven shell and when can I expect it and how muchwill I owe you. Sorry guys but he doesn't answer email. Patrick from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Jan 15 17:29:36 1998 Subject: Monel Ferrules Does anyone know what "Monel Ferrules" look like and are made of? Brian from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 15 17:30:22 1998 SAA20925; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:29:21 -0500 Subject: Re: tapers 9B1AF896E4359BED2AEF891B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 9B1AF896E4359BED2AEF891B Jerry I look at things a little differently - I look at the curve rather thana specificstress value. Pick a distance and then let the "optimum" stress value falloutafter casting the candidates - and that will be a personal choice.Chris Jerry Foster wrote: Tom, all I have updated your 5'6" taper on the archive, see if this acceptable..Looks great at 50', must be quite a stout rod...might have to build one..2 pc., have you done a conversion? The way this looks I might just tune each rod, for distance cast.. thatwould give everyone at a glance the optimum distance for each rod??? Is there an optimum stressvalue.,Wayne,Chris,Tom,John,Hank,Ralph,George,Anyone??????(180,000?) John Whitaker--a lot of work...download one of the programs and you canwork the variables, kind of do it yourself experimentation,(meant on apositive note)RegardsJWF --------------9B1AF896E4359BED2AEF891B begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------9B1AF896E4359BED2AEF891B-- from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 15 17:32:05 1998 SAA21462; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:31:42 -0500 Subject: Re: tapers CD3830E1D1296AB09E00C267" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- CD3830E1D1296AB09E00C267 TomAgree - but one size don't fit all - but we have to look at graphs for all3wtsand compare. So we need to agree on any length for Jerry's Archives thatgivesa meaningful depiction of the rod. I was trying to pick and so was Waynedistancesthat should be in the "sweet spot" for that weight rod for "normal" fishing. 50'ofline plus leader tends to overline most trout rods. Chris TSmithwick wrote: Chris, Wayne - I have no problem with your methods, which are quiteappropiateto the way you expect your rods to be used. My thought is that if astandardline length is used, someone browsing through the taper archives can tellat aglance what type of rod he is looking at. He could tell, for example thatoneof Chris' 3 weights is going to be a light model, and one of Wayne's 6weightsis going to be powerful. If the designer wants to put in a note statingthatthe rod was designed for a certain line length, and a certain type offishing,so much the better.The presence of tapers by departed makers further complicates things,how dowe know what Leonard or Cross intended? --------------CD3830E1D1296AB09E00C267 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------CD3830E1D1296AB09E00C267-- from David_J_Rogers@ccm2.hf.intel.com Thu Jan 15 17:41:09 1998 (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0xsz21-000qFdC; Thu, 15 Jan 98 15:49 PST PST Subject: Re: Annotated Archives Text item: I checked out the annotated archives--good stuff, just looks like a ton ofwork to maintain over time. What are the plans for this? Was this just a onetime test? I was disapointed though, there wasn't a section titled "JOSIE"... =============================================================================== Ted, all New list member Ted Godfrey, out of the goodness of his heart,(bless him noes not what he got into) made an attempt to catagorize this monthspostings, it can be found on the archive page under annotated archives, Check it out..is it worth the trouble, any suggestions for improvment.. thanx JWF Text item: External Message Header The following mail header is for administrative useand may be ignored unless there are problems. ***IF THERE ARE PROBLEMS SAVE THESE HEADERS***. Subject: Re: Splitting cane m6.sprynet.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA28696 for; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:33:35 -0800 0800 (PST) (Smail3.1.28.1 #2) id m0xsyDy-000qHeC; Thu, 15 Jan 98 14:57 PST from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Jan 15 17:45:14 1998 Subject: RE:Monel Ferrules RO>Does anyone know what "Monel Ferrules" look like and are made of? RO>Brian Brian, The only Monel that I've ever seen was way back during my time in theNavy and the way I remember it, the stuff looks like a very slightlygreen-tinged stainless steel. Just a tad off a normal "white" metalcolor. Don Bruns from jfoster@gte.net Thu Jan 15 17:50:17 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting cane mac-creator="4D4F5353" of leverage, which is what you need to keep the split running straight.Like Larry and prob. others I manufactured my own froe from a piece of2x.25 steel from the junk yard. ground an edge, rounded the back side,and ground a handle,made some grips out of some left over gumwood, sorrywayne, not laminated baltic birch available. although a froe is anelegant bamboo weapon, i found it very uncomforable to use in thetwisting manuver necessary to get straight splits (also poor leverage asthe blade is very narrow).imho Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Thu Jan 15 18:04:18 1998 Subject: Re: tapers mac-creator="4D4F5353" ChrisI think the entire curve is important also, I guess what i intend toguess at was the sweet spot, 180,000-200,000. If that is really where itis? I don't know if the optimum stress and the sweet spot aresynonymous. Thanks for the help by the way.. I believe the casting, realfishing, sweet spot is also dependent on casting technique, weather, andlots of other variables.Darryl, pitch in any time , I know you have some stress opinions.. Jerry from MasjC1@aol.com Thu Jan 15 18:21:10 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Splitting Cane Seppo, The cane was about 2 inches in diameter. It split just fine down to 1/2inchstrips. Perhaps the froe was a bit much. Next time I will use a putty knifeorsomething similar for the final split. Mark Cole from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jan 15 19:09:27 1998 UAA26661 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:09:22 Subject: Re. Tapers This I guess is the first time I've taken exception to friend Tom, but myexperience building and comparing one piece vs two piece tapers suggeststhat the presence or absence of a ferrule makes a heck of a difference.Computer programs will bear this out also. The ferrule weight makes a bigmoment contribution in the middle of the rod. Besides you could probablygeta 5'6'' rod even in a two seater sports car. Bill from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 15 19:29:17 1998 UAA15085; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:28:28 -0500 Subject: Re: tapers F4B7B2BE30396BE2CC7294E2" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- F4B7B2BE30396BE2CC7294E2 Jerry That is my point - what is the sweet spot? By having some standarddistances that are appropriate for the line weight each person can developwhat that "magic" number is for them. I do not think we can supose whata "good" number is at this time. Chris Jerry Foster wrote: ChrisI think the entire curve is important also, I guess what i intend toguess at was the sweet spot, 180,000-200,000. If that is really whereitis? I don't know if the optimum stress and the sweet spot aresynonymous. Thanks for the help by the way.. I believe the casting, realfishing, sweet spot is also dependent on casting technique, weather, andlots of other variables.Darryl, pitch in any time , I know you have some stress opinions.. Jerry --------------F4B7B2BE30396BE2CC7294E2 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------F4B7B2BE30396BE2CC7294E2-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jan 15 19:31:52 1998 Subject: Re: Pt. 2 Are you guys using a mechanics vise or a cabinet makers vise? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jan 15 19:37:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: tapers Yes and you have to do that 70 foot roll cast more than once to qualify. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 15 19:43:46 1998 Subject: Re: tapers In a message dated 1/15/98 4:12:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,jfoster@gte.netwrites: Darryl, pitch in any time , I know you have some stress opinions.. I don't really think you want to get me started again on this subject.I think I ruffled a few feathers back about a year ago. Let's just sayGarrison had a pretty good handle on stresses, and his book is where I picked up most of what I know about stress curves. Darryl Hayashida from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jan 15 19:54:00 1998 Subject: Re: archives Tried to load the site but could not retrieve it . HELP please from mrj@seanet.com Thu Jan 15 21:00:28 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23727 for Subject: Re: Monel Ferrules I believe that monel is basically the same alloys as nickel silver only indifferent amounts. It is really hard . Much closer to Stainless than Nickelsilver. It would probably make a decent ferrule but it would requiresomeonewho really knows' their way around a lathe to work with the stuff.Martin Jensen-----Original Message----- Subject: Monel Ferrules Does anyone know what "Monel Ferrules" look like and are made of? Brian from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Jan 15 22:00:26 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives -----Original Message----- I checked out the annotated archives--good stuff, just looks like a ton ofworkto maintain over time. What are the plans for this? Was this just a onetimetest? I was disapointed though, there wasn't a section titled "JOSIE"... David, Not much work involved, "plans are in the planning stage" - people needtime to think about the concept of the annotated. In particular, we (J.Foster and I) need input from the old farts (that should wake em up) whostarted and contribute so much to this List. I expect that this 10 daysexperiment will turn into an ongoing annotated archive. It was only withgreat restraint that I was able to punch the "delete" button re: JOSIE - atrue test of my character. Regards, Ted G. from gwr@seanet.com Thu Jan 15 23:46:09 1998 VAA02148 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 21:46:06 Subject: Splitting cane - blood Hi fellas, As regards this thread on splitting, just thought I ought to raisemy bloodied hand for all to see and say, "please, be careful." To betruthful it's one of the more embarrassing things I've done since college.What's the rule? Don't push. Well, my twist had an element of forwardmotion to it that grew as I fought a node. "Pop," split the node and "zip"went the next 12-15 inches of cane. The froe stopped against the bone ofmyleft index finger after severing the bulk (90%) of the extensor tendon andabout third of that little cross-wise tendon over the first knuckle. Thelast three weeks have been spent in and out of the ER, then the OR forreconstruction, then the therapist ad nauseum. I'll be splinted for a totalof 6-8 weeks and will likely spend the next half a year learning how tomovemy finger again.This sort of excitement makes for an expensive and time consumingcane rod, not to mention one heck of a riled wife. Russ PS - If any of you will be at the Sommerset, NJ show, please swing by mybooth (L-24)and introduce yourself. Always good to put faces to thenames. from jfoster@gte.net Thu Jan 15 23:56:12 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting cane - blood mac-creator="4D4F5353" Russ Sorry 'bout the froe attack. Advice from Wayne, which he doesnt use, Turn the thing around and usethe dull side. I do Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jan 16 00:00:49 1998 Subject: page again mac-creator="4D4F5353" upgraded some supplier links recandy royerlee valley Jerry (not upgraded) from gwr@seanet.com Fri Jan 16 00:07:15 1998 WAA03378 for ; Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:07:11 Subject: Re: Splitting cane - blood Thanks Jerry. I'll give your suggestion a go in a couple of weeks. Nothingto be sorry about, I'm the dolt who let it bite me. Russ At 11:54 PM 1/15/98 -0500, you wrote:Russ Sorry 'bout the froe attack. Advice from Wayne, which he doesnt use, Turn the thing around and usethe dull side. I do Jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jan 16 01:42:44 1998 Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:42:25 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Monel Ferrules Brian,I was riveting some mast fittings recently using monel rivets and I broke a couple of riveters until I got my hands on a two hander concertina type riveter with very much more power and even then the little the blighters were tough to rivet. I'd hate to spend much time turning the stuff. I wasn't riveting SS at the same time so it's hard to compare, but I think Monel is tougher to rivet but I guess it dosn't work harden like SS. Monel has an interesting colour though.The rivets cost about 2-3 times the price of SS so I guess it's expensive too. Tony On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Martin Jensen wrote: I believe that monel is basically the same alloys as nickel silver only indifferent amounts. It is really hard . Much closer to Stainless than Nickelsilver. It would probably make a decent ferrule but it would requiresomeonewho really knows' their way around a lathe to work with the stuff.Martin Jensen-----Original Message-----From: Brian & Michelle Creek Date: Thursday, January 15, 1998 3:33 PMSubject: Monel Ferrules Does anyone know what "Monel Ferrules" look like and are made of? Brian /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Jan 16 07:08:25 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives The annnotated archives are going to be a fantastic addition. It willsimplify reading archives (up to August of '96 now). Thanks for thework involved. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Jan 16 07:40:43 1998 Subject: Re. Tapers In a message dated 1/16/98 1:15:31 AM, you wrote: Bill, I certainy agree with that. I was only talking about this particularrod, which has a lot of butt strength and is short besides. A caster willfeelthe ferrule as opposed to the one piece version, but I don't think there willbe much performance loss. My preference is also for the one piece version. from jfoster@gte.net Fri Jan 16 07:58:21 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Steve, others thanks for the notes on the anno archives. Ted and I were talking and itoccurred that they might be easier to use of I could index (html) them interest. Do you have any suggestions of standing catagory names? Tedhas brought some of them out, but i'm sure there are many more.I think the object here was to catch serious subjects of long terminterest to all, and not the grits, (nothing against grits, well notmuch anyway). Thoughts? Jerry from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Jan 16 08:24:31 1998 ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Splitting cane - blood Don't feel all alone Russ. I did the same thing Christmas with my pocketknife. Was experimenting with some American cane. Cut the palm of myhandand knicked the tendon. Not as bad as yours. Only took four stitches butmy middle finger still tingles. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 16 09:00:08 1998 Subject: Re: Monel Ferrules RO>Brian,RO>I was riveting some mast fittings recently using monel rivets and IbrokeRO>a couple of riveters until I got my hands on a two hander concertinatypeRO>riveter with very much more power and even then the little theblightersRO>were tough to rivet. I'd hate to spend much time turning the stuff.RO>I wasn't riveting SS at the same time so it's hard to compare, but IthinkRO>Monel is tougher to rivet but I guess it dosn't work harden like SS.RO>Monel has an interesting colour though.RO>The rivets cost about 2-3 times the price of SS so I guess it'sexpensiveRO>too. RO>Tony All, Monel is a nickel-copper alloy, and as far as I know, it's biggest claimto fame is lit's ow corrosion rate in saltwater. Since NS works well,and is available, why go out of your way to make work with no real gain? The recently posted "Granger" blank site, Rick's (you played for her,you can play it for me?), has Monel ferrules left over from Granger'sattempt to make them. You might look into the cost of purchase. Sinclair, in his "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook", said something like- 'Monel was supposed to replace NS on Granger's best rods, but ended upjust being more expensive`. Sorry if the quote isn't 100%, I didn't lookit up. IMHO, Don Burns from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Fri Jan 16 09:16:38 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: Pt. 2 I find a cabinet maker's vice (I use the small Record) lined with stout oak jaws works well, though you presumably lose the higher conductivity (=quicker cooling) you get with bamboo-metal contact.---------- Subject: Re: Pt. 2 Are you guys using a mechanics vise or a cabinet makers vise? from gwr@seanet.com Fri Jan 16 10:22:24 1998 IAA18058 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 08:22:21 - Subject: Re: Splitting cane - blood Hi Onis, We could start a gallery of cane building "war wounds." This was the second time I had an ER doc compliment me on my ability tosharpen knives - "such a clean cut." Last time the 'honors' were mine, butthis time I had to credit the factory as the froe was only three splits outof the box before I whacked myself. Anyway, thanks for your post. At least I'm in good company. Take Care,Russ At 08:16 AM 1/16/98 -0600, you wrote:Don't feel all alone Russ. I did the same thing Christmas with my pocketknife. Was experimenting with some American cane. Cut the palm of myhandand knicked the tendon. Not as bad as yours. Only took four stitches butmy middle finger still tingles. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Fri Jan 16 10:36:23 1998 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Splitting cane - blood I use a linoleum knife ($5 from the hardware store) thatis not sharp enough to do much damage. But... I was splitting my first culm vertically on the shopfloor and when the cane split in half it fell andwacked me on the side of my head on my ear. I didn'tfeel a thing. Walked back into the house and the wifejust about passed out from all the blood on the sideof my head. Apparently the cane shaved half the skinoff the side of my ear. I never knew an ear wound couldbleed so much.. -Jerry BallardVicksburg, MS from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Jan 16 11:23:31 1998 ns.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA00366 for Subject: Re: Monel Ferrules At 06:20 AM 1/16/98 -0600, you wrote: All, The recently posted "Granger" blank site, Rick's (you played for her,you can play it for me?), has Monel ferrules left over from Granger'sattempt to make them. You might look into the cost of purchase. Sinclair, in his "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook", said something like- 'Monel was supposed to replace NS on Granger's best rods, but ended upjust being more expensive`. Sorry if the quote isn't 100%, I didn't lookit up. IMHO, Don Burns All, If you are wondering about RICKSRODS you might find the followinginformative. -Doug Easton----------------------------------------------------------------------------- RE: W&M blanksAt 03:52 PM 1/15/98 -0700, you wrote: Doug, Thank you for you inquiry. We are not sure which rod makers listyoufound us. Please be more specific. Rick Douglas Easton wrote: I understand from posts on the rodmaker's listserve that you are sellingsome of the items mentioned in the subject line. Please provide additional information if you are indeed selling theseitems. Regards,Doug Easton Rick, To be more specific: Wustl= Washington University St. Louis Could you answer my query about W&M blanks, please.Thanks :-). from birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu Fri Jan 16 12:29:55 1998 3.03.0013/7.aaeq) with ESMTP id qa009844 for; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:29:31 -0500 Subject: Re: oven shell Wayne - Just finished your book and video. I am interested in your ovenshell. Is it available? Seymour Birnbaum Robert Clarke wrote: Wayne, what are you making your oven shell out of? I am interested. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Coffey, Patrick W Subject: oven shellDate: Thursday, January 15, 1998 2:15 PM Wayne have you sent out the oven shell and when can I expect it and how muchwill I owe you. Sorry guys but he doesn't answer email. Patrick from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Jan 16 15:28:42 1998 PAA14080 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 1998 15:28:40 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id PAA30119 for ; Subject: Production rods What makes the "production rods" of yesteryear less desirablethan the high end rods? I'm talking about casting/fishing, notcosmetics or collectability. Was the cane lower quality or the planing/milling less precise or ??? Why can't you take a sow's earof a rod (in good condition, of course) and rebuild it into a silkpurse? I'm just wondering where the "real" differences lie.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Jan 16 15:45:12 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Pt. 2 Grhghlndr wrote: Are you guys using a mechanics vise or a cabinet makers vise? I'm using an inexpensive woodworking vise, with soft steel jaws. Basically I use it because it's all I have (traded my big machinist'svise for a Christmas present for my wife -- Should I have kept thevise???). But there may be some advantages to the woodworking vise. It's jaws are 7" wide, 5"deep. And you really have to work hard toapply enough pressure to hurt the cane. Harry Boyd from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 16 15:57:53 1998 Subject: Re: oven shell Pat -The tracking #1Z499E100310076358 - the shell is $40 and $15 forshipping -I normally don't send a follow up bill although having not collected wellovera grand from list members in the past year or so I perhaps should - myshippersays that he can't ask for a trace for another week - keep me posted from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 16 16:01:07 1998 Subject: re:Production rods RO>What makes the "production rods" of yesteryear less desirableRO>than the high end rods? I'm talking about casting/fishing, notRO>cosmetics or collectability. Was the cane lower quality or theRO>planing/milling less precise or ??? Why can't you take a sow's earRO>of a rod (in good condition, of course) and rebuild it into a silkRO>purse? RO>I'm just wondering where the "real" differences lie.RO>......................................................................RO>Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterRO>stetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aRO>Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,RO>Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank, That depends upon the builder and model - many very low-end productionrods were of such poor quality that the ferrules cracked within minutesof use. Others, such as Granger, Heddon and Leonard made some wonderfulrods for the money. Tapers, fit and finish and cane work is all over the place on"production" rods. Will a production rod catch fish - heck yes. Are they as good as acustom - normally the caster is the limit, not the rod. A simular question in autos, would be: Looking at production cars, with Yugo (reference bottom?) through M-B(ref. high-end) compare to hand-made cars. Can't be done in less than 10million words. Do they get to where you're going - normally, heck yes. (Yugo maybe) Arethey as well made as a custom - in many cases better. (IE M-B or BMW) Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 16 16:22:50 1998 Subject: RE:Production rods (part2) Frank, An even more interesting question would be, take a classic rod built bya "master" and match with a new rod, with the exact same taper, from oneof today's best builders - which would be a better rod. Forget collector values - just which is better at casting? Or maybe evenwhich has fit & finish? My bet would be the modern rod would win due to the better glues we havetoday, plus the lack of wear and tear that the classic rod has had toendure over the years. Don Burns from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Jan 16 16:36:37 1998 Subject: Re: oven shell Wayne, I am interested in this oven shell as well. Would it be possible toorder one from you? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Wayne Catt Subject: Re: oven shellDate: Friday, January 16, 1998 1:39 PM Pat -The tracking #1Z499E100310076358 - the shell is $40 and $15 forshipping -I normally don't send a follow up bill although having not collected wellovera grand from list members in the past year or so I perhaps should - myshippersays that he can't ask for a trace for another week - keep me posted from mduclos@mail.advertisnet.com Fri Jan 16 17:37:15 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0813 ID# 0-13583) with SMTP id AAA172 0600 Subject: Butt end covers Up front, I should mention that my question does not pertain to bamboorods - however it does relate to rod making, and I'm hoping to get someadvice from some of you who are obviously well versed in this craft. I'm in the process of having some modifications done to a 10 ft 10 wtSageGraphite flyrod. Specifically, I'm having three interchangable butt piecesmade - one is an extension butt for two handed casting, the second is ashorter "fighting butt" and the third is a small butt (primarily to coverthe rod blank). I've asked the rodmaker about the possibility ofconstructing each of the butts with some sort of "fancy" butt plate (eg.nickel silver), but he says he's not sure where to source such things. I was wondering if anyone knew of a source for things of this type. much thanks in advance. mike duclosmduclos@advertisnet.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 16 17:37:26 1998 Subject: Re: oven shell Wayne, Me too - if you're not going to collect. Don Burns PS - You can get details about a UPS package status @ this url:http://www.ups.com/ PPS - Make sure to put all the "spaces" in the correct spots too. RO>Wayne, I am interested in this oven shell as well. Would it be possibletoRO>order one from you? RO>Robert ClarkeRO>rclarke@eou.edu from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Jan 16 19:28:03 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: My bet would be the modern rod would win due to the better glues wehavetoday, plus the lack of wear and tear that the classic rod has had toendure over the years. Don Burns Don,I own quite a few old rods, but after a few Grayrock gatherings, I'mbeginning to think that the AVERAGE quality of the output of thepart-time rodmakers ranks with the better work of the production shops(Payne, Leonard, Thomas, Edwards, etc.), at least in terms of casting.I doubt that glue is the answer, unless you are having delaminationproblems with the older rods. Principally, I would point to the simpledifferences ... no pressure to pay the bills by rodmaking, "unlimited"hours can be devoted to each stick, and selecting only the best cane.Best regards,Reed"Have you tried a Bogart lately." from 102130.461@compuserve.com Fri Jan 16 20:06:18 1998 Subject: Makers Rod Press Release FYI - Perhaps some may be interested in the press release [below]announcing the "Makers Rod Raffle '98" that we have been distributingaggresively for several weeks. It looks as though we will receive somefavorable exposure in print and also on at several websites. Steve Southard December 8, 1997 Steve Southard [517] 348-5844 Grayling, Michigan e-mail: steves@freeway.net Wayne Cattanach [616] 675-5894 e-mail: waynecatt@aol.com "THE MAKERS ROD '98": A UNIQUE STREAM RESTORATION RAFFLE The Makers Rod '98 is an extraordinary bamboo fly-rod presentationpackagethat is being raffled for a special cause - stream restoration projects onthe fabled AuSable and Manistee rivers of north central Michigan. Rod'98, the project is an opportunity to demonstrate love of their craft andconcern for our fisheries resources. For one lucky individual, it will bean opportunity to own one of the most unique bamboo fly rods ever made. The Makers Rod '98 raffle is sponsored by the George Mason Chapter ofTroutUnlimited and is also supported by the Great Lakes Council of theFederation of Fly Fishers. The proceeds of the raffle have been earmarked streamrestoration projects. The Makers Rod '98 Raffle project is a most unique undertaking in severalrespects. The cane rod that is the centerpiece of the grand prize presentationpackage will be a 7' 6" 4 weight, 3-piece, 2 tipped rod. Twenty-eight [28]different rod makers from across the United States will take part in itsconstruction [editor's note: a complete list of the rod makers follows,below]. Each cane rod maker will hand plane one of the triangular strips,six of which are glued together to form the familiar hexagonal shape of abamboo fly rod. The rod will be fitted with ferrules provided by Classic SportingEnterprises and a reel seat by Bellinger Reelseats. After the fly rod isassembled each maker will sign his work. Never before has such animpressive national cross- section of cane rod makers collaborated in theconstruction of a single rod. In addition to this very special cane rod, The Makers Rod '98 grand prizepresentation package will include:- an exquisite handmade Italian briar- wood reel by Giorgio Dallari- a one-of-a-kind fly line designed specifically for the Makers Rod - a custom suede rod sack stitched by Dorothy Schramm of FFF and Flygirls- an elegant hand tooled leather rod case, resplendent with hand engraved and dyed [colored] trout and flies, by James Acord Not only are each component of the grand prize presentation packageuniquehand-crafted works, but the raffle tickets are themselves limited editionpieces of art! Noted Michigan wildlife artist Larry Cory, winner ofseveral Michigan trout and duck stamp print competitions, has contributedarendering of the Makers Rod, reel, line, leather case and a brook trout inspawning colors laying on a grassy background. The painting has beenreproduced as an art quality 4"x6" 4-color image, which has been signedandnumbered by artist Cory, on each the 8"x10" raffle tickets. Each ticket isin fact a signed and numbered limited edition print suitable for framing. The concept for The Makers Rod '98 project came about at the third annual[1997] "Trout Bum Bar-B-Q" [TBBBQ], held in June on the banks of theAuSable River in Grayling, Michigan. TBBBQ brings together a diverse groupof fly-fishers for what has been described by some attendees as"intensivecamaraderie" and, in the words of the organizers, "to raise a few dollars The internet has played an integral part in the genesis of TBBBQ, being thecommon thread that ties together the members of two groups thatinitiatedand anchor the annual affair. RODMAKERS, a group of bamboo rod makerswhoare subscribers to a "listserv" by the same name, stage a workshop and gettogether preceding the Bar-B-Q. A number of the RODMAKERS group areparticipating in crafting the Makers Rod. Fly-fishers, from around theU.S. and as far away as the United Kingdom, who became acquainted viaCompuServe's on-line fly-fishing forum comprise the other primary groupofTBBBQ attendees. The actual Bar-B-Q, complete with tent, a catered pig roast and a goodnatured on-stream "sporting flies" competition, caps the several daygathering. With the participation and support of approximately 150bamboorod makers, trout bums, "fish heads" and other attendees at TBBBQ '97,$4000 was donated to Michigan stream restoration efforts. The winning ticket for the Makers Rod '98 raffle will be drawn June 27,1998, at the Trout Bum Bar-B-Q IV, to be held alongside the AuSableRiveron the grounds of The Fly Factory, 200 Ingham Street, Grayling, Michigan. Tickets for The Makers Rod '98, which include the signed & numberedlimitededition image by artist Larry Cory, are $50 each; 500 tickets areavailable. You do not need to be present to win. The raffle is sponsored organization, and is licensed by the State of Michigan, license # R46272. George Mason Chaper of Trout Unlimited / Makers RodP. O. Box 502Grayling, MI 49738 Information about The Makers Rod '98 raffle, including an opportunity toview the raffle ticket artwork by Larry Cory, is available on theworldwideweb at: http://www.troutbums.com/makersrod98.htm or at: http://members.aol.com/planecane1/index.htm The George Mason Chapter of T.U. has earmarked raffle proceeds to riverrestoration projects coordinated by: - The AuSable River Watershed Restoration Committee [ARWRC]- The Upper Manistee River Restoration Committee [UMRRC]- The George A. Griffith Foundation The ARWRC and UMRRC are non-profit, non-governmental, 501(c)(3)organizations dedicated to rehabilitating trout habitat, curtailing activeerosion, reducing sediment bedload and conducting stream and corridorimprovement generally. The George A. Griffith foundation is a 501(c)(3)organization that is undertaking a project to provide an assessment ofstormwater and snowmelt runoff to the AuSable River from the town ofGrayling. All three organizations are aided by the Huron Pines ResourceConservation & Development [RC&D] Council in Grayling. contact:Huron Pines RC & D501 Norway, Grayling, Michigan 49738[517] 348- 9319; e-mail - huron@freeway.net Contact The George A. Griffith Foundation at P.O. Box 502, Grayling,Michigan 49738. The complete listing of makers participating in The Makers Rod '98projectfollows:Ron Barch - The Planing Form & Alder CreekMike Biondo - "The list Guy" RodmakersChris Bogart - Shenandoah RodsGlen Brackett & Jeff Walker - R. L. Winston RodsPer Brandin - Brandin Splitcane Fishing RodsWayne, Matt, & Lyndi Cattanach - Cattanach Rod CoJonathan Clarke - Twin Pines Rod CoGary Dabrowski - Brookside Rod CoBill Fink - Bill Fink MakerPaul French - Paul French RodsJohn Gallas - John Gallas RodsDoug Hall - Dennis Higham -Luis Marden & Bob Poole - The National GeographicGeorge Maurer - Sweet Water RodsAl Medved -Jon W. Parker - Parker RodsDr. Ken Rongey -Carlos Santos - Santos RodsTom Smithwick - Tom Smithwick makerMiles Tiernan -Jeff Wagner -Darryl Whitehead -John Zimny - John Zimny Rods ### END ### from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Jan 16 20:16:40 1998 Subject: Re: Pt. 2 I use a big, honkin', cabinet makers vise with maple jaw liners. Worksgreat and doesn't mark the cane. from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 16 20:27:39 1998 Subject: Re[2]: Production rods (part2) RO>flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>> My bet would be the modern rod would win due to the better glues wehaveRO>> today, plus the lack of wear and tear that the classic rod has had toRO>> endure over the years.RO>>RO>> Don Burns RO>Don,RO> I own quite a few old rods, but after a few Grayrock gatherings,I'mRO>beginning to think that the AVERAGE quality of the output of theRO>part-time rodmakers ranks with the better work of the productionshopsRO>(Payne, Leonard, Thomas, Edwards, etc.), at least in terms of casting.RO> I doubt that glue is the answer, unless you are havingdelaminationRO>problems with the older rods. Principally, I would point to the simpleRO>differences ... no pressure to pay the bills by rodmaking, "unlimited"RO>hours can be devoted to each stick, and selecting only the best cane.RO>Best regards,RO>ReedRO>"Have you tried a Bogart lately." Reed, I'm sure all modern builders can turn out a rod as good as 99.9% of theproduction rod companies stuff. BUT what I tried to state was that I think a modern builder's rodfollowing the same taper of a "master" builder (Garrison/Gillum/etc.)could equal or surpass a master's rod too. Be it due to modern glue orwear and tear on the 25 - 75 year old "collector" rod. Point being thata rod's casting quality doesn't equal price. (hence related to theoriginal question of production rods vs. custom) Don Burns from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 16 20:27:57 1998 Subject: Re: Makers Rod Press Release Steve -Because Bob Poole had back surgery a week ago he and Luis need to backout- Hank Woolman is stepping in - Hank and his wife Marcia were in Grayrockacouple of years ago - he is well connected with the DC area TU groups andtook tickets to sell from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Jan 16 20:28:50 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) Most of the makers in "the golden age" started out by feeling their wayalong. Then there was craft secrets which probably varied from rod shopto rod shop, and they also measured to the 1/64th rather than thethousandth. I suspect our ability to better and more easily measurefine dimensions has something to do with any improvement of new rodsover old. As to glues, read Prof. Zimny in Rodmakers page on glue. Brian from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Jan 16 20:35:34 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting cane - blood Well if we are comparing war stories here - At the Boiling Springs gettogether several years ago I was given a very thin walled piece of bambootosplit - Several watched as I drove a froe (deep) into my left hand when thebamboo literally broke in my hands - this was when I decided that it mightbebest to flip the froe and use the blunt side to do hand splitting with. Thescare is about 2" long - ouch!!! I often tell folks that if I can only tellyou the idiot things that I've done - you would have to be real creative tocome up with new disasters. from WDHCJL@aol.com Fri Jan 16 21:48:57 1998 Subject: Re: Testing Bamboo In a message dated 98-01-15 09:37:09 EST, you write: Nothing wrong with that, however, if I start with bamboo that I know ishighquality, I have true faith in building a rod.doug from tedgodfreys@erols.com Fri Jan 16 23:29:22 1998 Subject: Re: Butt end covers -----Original Message----- asked the rodmaker about the possibility ofconstructing each of the butts with some sort of "fancy" butt plate (eg.nickel silver), but he says he's not sure where to source such things. Michael, Try REC (in Rodmakers Page). Their catalog shows extension butts withsizeable round butt plates. Also, REC does (or used to) some special orderwork. Regards, Ted G. from Bopep@aol.com Fri Jan 16 23:52:16 1998 Subject: Re: Which rod taper? I'm starting work on a PHY para-17 to also double as a steelhead rod...butit's an 8.5 foot taper. from what I understand, a parabolic action will buildup the momentum to throw a sparrow should you so desire.I got to wiggleanoriginal at a fly show...wow... from Bopep@aol.com Sat Jan 17 00:05:15 1998 Subject: Re: Vices and whole bamboo straightening On my last two rods I've been using a drill press vise as my original ponyvice gave up the ghost. So far so good, they deliver alot of force to flattenthe node and most have a somewhat 60 -degree notch milled into one facetocatch a few nodes that pop up after initial planing. from Bopep@aol.com Sat Jan 17 00:16:58 1998 Subject: Re: Splitting cane - blood To quote the avuncular Phil Esterhaus, "Now let's be careful out there". from ghinde@inconnect.com Sat Jan 17 00:29:26 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) Let us not forget we hve the advantage of another 75 years of knowledgeinin working with cane. Little things like computers with Hexrod loaded on,good lighting, central heating,etc. have given us an unfair advantage inthis discussion. But, wouldn't it be nice to see what Thomas, Payne,Leonard,etc. could do today!The only thing that the famous makers of the "Golden Age" have over us is75 years of history and tradition. Of this I am acutely aware every time Ipick up my Leonard. George ----------From: Brian & Michelle Creek Subject: Re: Production rods (part2)Date: Friday, January 16, 1998 7:26 PM Most of the makers in "the golden age" started out by feeling their wayalong. Then there was craft secrets which probably varied from rod shopto rod shop, and they also measured to the 1/64th rather than thethousandth. I suspect our ability to better and more easily measurefine dimensions has something to do with any improvement of new rodsover old. As to glues, read Prof. Zimny in Rodmakers page on glue. Brian from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Jan 17 08:18:20 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) Don,You've presented some interesting ideas. I'm sure all modern builders can turn out a rod as good as 99.9% of theproduction rod companies stuff. I wouldn't say ALL modern builders. Since most of them have not gonebeyond the Dickerson/Young/Cattanach tapers (nothing wrong there) it isdifficult to see how they stack up against the larger production shops,e.g., Payne, Leonard. And some few modern builders don't strive forquality. But I would agree with Many or even Most. BUT what I tried to state was that I think a modern builder's rodfollowing the same taper of a "master" builder (Garrison/Gillum/etc.)could equal or surpass a master's rod too. Be it due to modern glue orwear and tear on the 25 - 75 year old "collector" rod. Point being thata rod's casting quality doesn't equal price. (hence related to theoriginal question of production rods vs. custom) Don Burns "Master builder" is an interesting term. Why apply it to those two? Fromwhat I have seen, Gillum did nothing of particular note except make aname for himself, rods that delaminated, and died with a low totalnumber of serviceable rods; thus driving up their price. Garrisoncompares well with Wayne. Both authored (Garrison co-) a book,handdplane(d) and don't (didn't) derive a living solely from rodmaking.So, unless you accord "Master Builder" to Wayne... And where does itend? Of course, casting quality doesn't equal price. Scarcity equals price(Gillum); whim (good marketing) equals price(Pop art). Except forPaynes, they are not scarce. And even with Paynes some are exceptionalbut most are just very good casting instruments. Don, I think I can only handle your question when it is 1930-1960Production vs. modern cane rodmakers. Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Jan 17 08:32:24 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) Brian,Some interesting thoughts. Most of the makers in "the golden age" started out by feeling their wayalong. That's something we seldom realize. Then there was craft secrets which probably varied from rod shopto rod shop, Because of their investment in "feeling along". and they also measured to the 1/64th rather than thethousandth. Can't agree with this. Their measurement was usually better than modernmakers. Example, look at a pattern (the metal template used in bevelers)it probably has measurements every inch in thousands. Then the patternbook is kept and any vaiance over time noted. Remember, too, that theycould change the curve more radically with the beveler than can bereproduced with a planing form. And since handplaners take measurementsonly every 5" (why 5?) they may never know whether they are more thanapproximating the taper from a beveller cut rod. I suspect our ability to better and more easily measurefine dimensions has something to do with any improvement of new rodsover old. See above. Actually, micrometers have been around for a long time. As to glues, read Prof. Zimny in Rodmakers page on glue. I will, Brian, thank you. But when I cast a favorite 80 year old rodheld together with hide glue, I'm not certain it would be any bettercasting with epoxy (as a matter of opinion, I would think worse). Best regards,Reed from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 17 09:38:19 1998 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Which rod taper? Tell me more! Dave Whitlock recommends a rod with a stiff butt forcastingbass bugs. I thought the parabolic action resulted from a soft butt.Changing rod length and line weight is no problem with Wayne's programsoyour thoughts on the parabolic are appreciated. I will surf the archives it because of electronic problems but I think it has been archived already. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com I'm starting work on a PHY para-17 to also double as a steelhead rod...butit's an 8.5 foot taper. from what I understand, a parabolic action willbuildup the momentum to throw a sparrow should you so desire.I got to wiggleanoriginal at a fly show...wow... from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 17 09:42:17 1998 ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Splitting cane - blood It doesn't do any good. Once upon a time (when I was young and before Imarried) I moved into an apartment with an arched dorway. I thought"Thiswill cure me of walking to close to the door jam!" I lived there two yearsand still bumped my head going through that arch. I still bump door jams from walking to close. Some people are unteachable. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com To quote the avuncular Phil Esterhaus, "Now let's be careful out there". from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Jan 17 10:07:15 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) Wooh - I appreciate the kind words BUT there are several modernmakersthat I feel deserve praise with the term Master more than I do. If youquestion that come over some night when I'm grumbling to myself oversomemajor malfeasance.As bamboo rods fell from grace in the late 60's - early 70's and thecottage industry took over the level of quality (those picky little details)gradually became higher and higher until today - I feel that the best(detailwise) rod are being made today.The myst of the value of rods (as Reed has mentioned) is in most casesdriven by marketing or better yet - dealers that have access to these rods.But realize who is benefiting from the high values. It's not the maker - thepraise and dollars only surface after their demise. In real life theystruggle- it's a commitment that some of us chose not to make. I rather enjoy the'golden handcuff' job that I have( what a whimp huh).Too often folks come to this craft looking for the money or the praisenot realizing that it doesn't happens when they are alive. To derivesatisifaction you are better to focus at enjoying the companionship of theothers that share the interest otherwise you will find disappointment. from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat Jan 17 11:23:26 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) Don't forget, the craftsmen that built the production rods made thousandsofthem over a career. True, the need to produce can hurt quality, but thereisno -- REPEAT NO -- substitute for experience when it comes to somethingthatis crafted. --Rich from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Jan 17 12:28:49 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) Reed - I refered to Zimney's paper because he points out that resorcinol isprobably the best glue ever for rod building w/ cane, URAC is not a badthing, and Hide glue's biggest failing is it can't take moisture. I was trying to point out that glue's have changed, but you reallycan't call them improved. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Jan 17 12:31:57 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) Reed - I almost forgot. Micrometers have sure been around a long time.During WW II my Uncles worked to 1/10,000 in making patterns foraircraft engines with micrometers. But they are not as easy to read oruse as a dial caliper is. Bevelers are beyond my limited knowledge of things mechanical. Brian from brown.mark@usa.net Sat Jan 17 13:09:56 1998 0000 Subject: Rod niceties Hello everyone,I am just new to the list although I have been chewing my way throughthe archives for a little while. This fall I took up fly-fishing after a long hiatus. I went down toLiquidation World and picked up a Berkley rod ridiculously cheap,cleaned up an old reel I had from before and picked up a floating lineat Wall Mart. I have been having a blast! I live only a block from theBow river and I am even catching/releasing the odd fish!!!Unfortunately, with the cold weather (-35C) I have had the time latelyto look at nice rods in the local shops (bad idea!!!). I figure since Icannot cast, I might as well not be able to cast a nice cane rod I makemyself as opposed to not being able to cast a nice graphite rod that Ibuy. I am looking forward to sometime this spring when I plan to standclumsily flailing away in some pristine mountain stream saying "Geezthis Garrison taper does not quite fit my casting style" or "I did notget this damn Cattanach hinge quite right, I will have to go back overthe stress curves for this rod!". A poor carpenter blames his tools andit will be nice to have my own tools to blame!!!!! Anyway, as I say I have been plodding my way through the archives andpeople's web pages in order to get myself set-up. I really appreciateall the work that people have put into these resources. I am lucky inthat I own, or have access to, most of the tools that I need, even dialguages and calipers. I made myself a Herter board with level grooves forrough planing and tapered grooves specific for a nodeless 3 piece 6'3" 2wgt rod (utilising Wayne Cattanach's taper). I reasoned that byfollowing this approach I can get started building a rod and really takemy time in making myself a nice set of planing forms, binder and atempering oven for my next rod. I have been practising on some cheapcane from a local garden centre and my splitting, splicing and planingtechniques are improving. I will send out an order for some decent culmsthis payday. I have done a fair amount of woodworking so I have areasonable idea of what kind of finishes I like and there have beenseveral excellent discussions on glues etc.. So technically I think Ihave things pretty much under control. My problem is that artistically my taste is pretty much all in my mouth.I have not seen many rods and I was wondering what sort of guides,thread colours, wrapping patterns, reel seat types, spacer materialsetc. people find pleasing? I would like to gather a little compilationof some of the subtle niceties that people put into their own rods andwhat catches their eye in other people's rods. I will only be makingrods for myself and friends but I would like to poach as many ideas as Ican. Any input will be deeply appreciated. As an aside, I have noticed a few methods in the archives for colouringferrules and guides (ammonium hydroxide vapours, photographic fixer,ferric chloride/arsenic trichloride). Has anyone looked into anodisingferrules, guides, reel seats etc.? The set-up, at least for aluminum,looks pretty simple; involving a small sulphuric acid bath, a batterycharger and a couple of wires. Special anodising or regular RIT dyes canbe utilised (see http://www.tiac.net/users/atm/anode.html). I wonder ifthis technique would work for Nickel/Silver and other brasses? Thanks in advanceMark Brownin Calgarybrown.mark@usa.net from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Jan 17 13:27:32 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) (email system won't let me post a long message) RO>"Master builder" is an interesting term. Why apply it to those two?FromRO>what I have seen, Gillum did nothing of particular note except make aRO>name for himself, rods that delaminated, and died with a low totalRO>number of serviceable rods; thus driving up their price. GarrisonRO>compares well with Wayne. Both authored (Garrison co-) a book,RO>handdplane(d) and don't (didn't) derive a living solely from rodmaking.RO>So, unless you accord "Master Builder" to Wayne... And where does itRO>end? A master was a guildmember that could create a "masterpiece" judgedacceptable to the guild's standards. I believe Wayne and "many" (see above) modern builders would be able tomeet those requirements. RO> Of course, casting quality doesn't equal price. Scarcity equalspriceRO>(Gillum); whim (good marketing) equals price(Pop art). Except forRO>Paynes, they are not scarce. And even with Paynes some areexceptionalRO>but most are just very good casting instruments. RO> Don, I think I can only handle your question when it is 1930- 1960RO>Production vs. modern cane rodmakers. RO>Best regards,RO>Reed Michael Sinclair in his "Heddon - The Rod with the Fighting Heart" saidthat Young bought complete trade rods from Heddon - labeled as Young'sDry Fly model. I'll bet they sell for mote than the same rod if labeledas a Heddon. This would make for an interesting non- blind casting test.Get a few collectors that aren't aware that the rods were the same andlet them observe the rod labels, then let them test cast the rods -then ask which casts better. My dad used a greenheart rod followed by a 9' Montague Sunbeam, whengrowing up in N.E. PA. He fly fishing from the 20's - up to the WWIItime period. Most of the time he didn't own a "real" flyline - justwhatever kind of fishing line he could bum and couldn't ever cast wortha poop. (my casting abilities must be inherited ) He'd just dappedthe local brookie streams and caught more fish than most. After WWII, hetook up spin fishing and only flyfished a few streams in central Ontariowith this same old Sunbeam - right up until the 1980's when old ageprevented him from getting out on a stream anymore. I've now restored the rod, use it to dap a local S. CA rainbow streamwith it, can't cast worth a poop and only wish I had 1/2 his fishingcatching ability. So I collect more and more rods in the hopes offinding the "magic". I'll could bring "the rod" to the next Grayrock - a real treat for thosewho've never cast a production rod. Tight lines, Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Jan 17 13:29:24 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) RO>Don,RO> You've presented some interesting ideas. RO>> I'm sure all modern builders can turn out a rod as good as 99.9% oftheRO>> production rod companies stuff. RO>I wouldn't say ALL modern builders. Since most of them have not goneRO>beyond the Dickerson/Young/Cattanach tapers (nothing wrong there) itisRO>difficult to see how they stack up against the larger production shops,RO>e.g., Payne, Leonard. And some few modern builders don't strive forRO>quality. But I would agree with Many or even Most. Okay, subsitute "many" for all. OR if you've got a sense of humor, subsitute "any modern builder thatgives a rat's-behind" Don from jczimny@dol.net Sat Jan 17 15:27:03 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) Hide glue is good glue. It's very strong and not at all prone todelamination in cold water. It is difficult to apply because one has tokeep the surface and glue warm while binding. If applied to a coolsurface it can "chill" and form a skin that prevents proper wetting ofthe substrate. Probably, Gillum's problems with delamination are moredue to a primative gluing setup than the quality of the glue that he got from Halstead. We should note how Granger got around this problem in hisearlier rods. it worked well.I have heard that old saw about how the master worked in tapers by theinch and knowing where you live, I think I know where it comes from. Ihate to disabuse you, but, it just ain't so. I realize that one can haveeither a mill or a beveler set up with a cam so that swelled butts canbe produced relatively easily. However the platens on the bevelers wereoften 6 inches long. This alone would seem to preclude any adjustment bythe inch. One could conceivably adjust a pattern to the inch. But, I'venever seen any evidence that any kind of .001 tolerence was maintained John from jczimny@dol.net Sat Jan 17 15:27:08 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) RMargiotta wrote: Don't forget, the craftsmen that built the production rods madethousands ofthem over a career. True, the need to produce can hurt quality, but thereisno -- REPEAT NO -- substitute for experience when it comes tosomething thatis crafted. --RichA-A-A-A-AMEN-N-N-N-NJOHN from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Jan 17 16:10:19 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: hide glue Having worked with hide glue on a daily basis for 8 years I think it isone of the hardest glues to take apart that's around. True heat andmoist heat does cause it to soften but when taking apart a violin orcello we would have to use a ton of HOT water and putty knives to get itto come apart and it did so reluctantly and took quite a while to do it.We did find out that liquid hide glue is a far cry from the old hot melthide glue though you could reglue both without having to plane down tonew wood as one has to do with titebond. A simple infrared light keptthe wood at a nice warm temperatue while we went all around theinstrument one inch at a time with clamps. I was told by an old masterthat there was something that you could add to hide glue to make itsomewhat water resistant and maybe that would explain why all the oldrods have not delaminated knowing how hydroscopic that the finishes are.I think that if one could come up with a impregnation finish that onlywent in barely though the surface that it would be one of the very bestglues to use in making rods. It has a tremendous resistance to failurein repeated bending as in if you looked at a musical instrumentvibrating (Harvard did extensive tisting using laser and holograms tofind out what made the master violins so great and found out they werealive with vibrational ripples and pools) you would see just how goodhide glue is in relation to flexing. PatrickJourneyman Luther from 102130.461@compuserve.com Sat Jan 17 16:53:44 1998 Subject: Re: Grayling The Grayling CVB is on-line. Don't remember their url. from rhicks@d.umn.edu Sat Jan 17 17:11:57 1998 17:11:54 -0600 RAA24422 for ; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 17:06:45 Subject: Re: Sherline of Wed, 31 Dec 1997 07:44:49 +0000 Hi Jon, I saw your message (below) on the Rodmaker's Listserve. When you sayyoucan provide Sherline lathes for a hair above cost, how much discount doyoumean. For instance, what would the model 4400A cost (24" bed withchucksand rocker tool post)? Thanks for any help. Randall Hicks 232 Isanti StreetDuluth, MN 55803 ========================Subject: Sherline I just wanted to let all the rod makers looking at lathes to know that if they can purchase with cash/check...I can sell the Sherlines to rodmakers for hair above cost. I do not mean to advertise....it is just the thought of someone paying more than they should. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat Jan 17 19:33:02 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA25407 +0000 Subject: Re: Rod niceties Won't work for nickel silver. What you are doing with the aluminum iscreatinga layer of aluminum oxide (white and powdery), dying it, then hardening it. George----------From: mark l. brown Has anyone looked into anodisingferrules, guides, reel seats etc.? The set-up, at least for aluminum,looks pretty simple; involving a small sulphuric acid bath, a batterycharger and a couple of wires. Special anodising or regular RIT dyes canbe utilised (see http://www.tiac.net/users/atm/anode.html). I wonder ifthis technique would work for Nickel/Silver and other brasses? Thanks in advanceMark Brownin Calgarybrown.mark@usa.net from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Jan 17 20:19:11 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) J. C. Zimny wrote: Hide glue is good glue. It's very strong and not at all prone todelamination in cold water. It is difficult to apply because one has tokeep the surface and glue warm while binding. If applied to a coolsurface it can "chill" and form a skin that prevents proper wetting ofthe substrate. Probably, Gillum's problems with delamination are moredue to a primative gluing setup than the quality of the glue that he got from Halstead. We should note how Granger got around this problem inhisearlier rods. it worked well. John, I have a Halstead blank that has serious delaminations on thebutt. I take this to be due to fungal infections in his glue batch. WhenI worked with hide glue (which I seriously think is a superb adhesive)we used fungicides in the pot. I never found working with hide difficultand straightening is easier than with most other adhesives. I have heard that old saw about how the master worked in tapers by theinch and knowing where you live, I think I know where it comes from. Ihate to disabuse you, but, it just ain't so. I realize that one can haveeither a mill or a beveler set up with a cam so that swelled butts canbe produced relatively easily. However the platens on the bevelers wereoften 6 inches long. This alone would seem to preclude any adjustmentbythe inch. One could conceivably adjust a pattern to the inch. But, I'venever seen any evidence that any kind of .001 tolerence was maintained JohnYes, a local oldtimer I have often mentioned has all hismeasurements approx. six FEET long. He learned this approach from Edwards, whodoubtless learned it from Hiram L. I also know (fact) that F.E. Thomasused such measurements. And I can provide you (just you, and you mustdestroy after reading) with the pattern measurements from the bevelerof another famous maker.It just is so. (Way! in modern parlance.)Best regards,Reed from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jan 17 21:26:13 1998 Subject: Rod finishing/Dipped? OK guys I have another question to put forth to you. I know a lot of you aredipping your rods to finish them and I suppose some of you are using abrushto apply the finish. But I was wondering what would be wrong withapplyingthe finish by spraying. you could use a touch-up gun by Binks for example. Iwould love to hear your thoughts on this. Tradition aside I think this wouldbe a great way to finish a rod. Bret from channer@frontier.net Sat Jan 17 22:15:15 1998 Subject: ricksrods Can anyone tell me how to get into ricksrods web page. Its looks like thereare lots of intersting things there, but all I can get to is the first pagewith the list on it, or is that all there is? A phone number would behelpful if there is no more online info to be had, I can't even get a phonenumber from online yellow pages. Thanks alot.John Channer from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Sat Jan 17 22:38:38 1998 mailfep4-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" J. C. Zimny wrote: Hide glue is good glue. It's very strong and not at all prone todelamination in cold water. It is difficult to apply because one hastokeep the surface and glue warm while binding. If applied to a coolsurface it can "chill" and form a skin that prevents proper wetting of the substrate. Probably, Gillum's problems with delamination are moredue to a primative gluing setup than the quality of the glue that hegot from Halstead. We should note how Granger got around this problem inhisearlier rods. it worked well. Hide glue is excellent glue ... not only does it have excellent strengthbut, one of it's important attributes is that with careful applicationof heat and moisture it will release its bond without damaging the thingit's hold together. Why is this good, you may ask? Well, in certainapplications, such as musical instrument construction and repair, beingable to take something apart and make repairs is valuable. However,given a choice of adhesives for bamboo rod constructiion, I'd opt forURAC or one of the epoxies and leave hide glue for the luthiers. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rods / www. triadvertising.com/canerods from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Jan 17 22:43:18 1998 Subject: Re: ricksrods -----Original Message----- number from online yellow pages. Thanks alot.John Channer John, When I click on the "contact us" line of the top page, I get their phone no. Ted G. from SealRite@aol.com Sun Jan 18 03:25:44 1998 Subject: Re: heat treating I have a Powell rod made by him in 1995. I think he has pretty muchretired from the bamboo side, but his wife makes some graphites. Craig from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Jan 18 04:46:36 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id LAA10754 for; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:10:18 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Rod finishing/Dipped? Bret wrote: OK guys I have another question to put forth to you. I know a lot of youaredipping your rods to finish them and I suppose some of you are using abrushto apply the finish. But I was wondering what would be wrong withapplyingthe finish by spraying. you could use a touch-up gun by Binks forexample. Iwould love to hear your thoughts on this. Tradition aside I think thiswouldbe a great way to finish a rod. Bret Bret Am using a Badger Air Brush for applying finish, using a 50/50varnish/thinner solution. Easy applying and quick drying. Works OK. Asusual the problem is beating the dust. Best regards Carsten from RMargiotta@aol.com Sun Jan 18 06:22:34 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods (part2) In Gillum's defense, he did switch to resourcinol in his later rods (as wellas Super Zs). He obviously knew a good thing when he saw it. I've neverhandled one his rods but the one I saw in the American Museum of FlyFishingseveral years ago was impeccably finished and the cane color was, well,exotic. I guess he knew how to heat treat as well. --Rich from channer@frontier.net Sun Jan 18 07:08:14 1998 Subject: ricksrods Ted;Thanks for answering, but I don't get that on my screen. I get nothing toclick on or scroll with, just the list starting with TM, Orvis, etc. itsvery frustating. Maybe its my older version of explorer or something, I,afraid I'm pretty ignorant about computers and the internet, juststumblingalong.John Channer from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Jan 18 08:02:04 1998 Subject: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine To All; I have subscribed twice and emailed them twice and have received noanswers from them. Is there any latest and greates information? Hasanyone east of the Mississippi received an answer? Curious in Independence, Steve from DrBamboo@aol.com Sun Jan 18 08:14:20 1998 Subject: Re: hide glue Patrick;Maybe you can help.Need to refinish a violin for a friend.Violin shops areeven moresecretive than old rod shops and are hesitant to sell any varnish.Tradesecrets youknow.Would prefer not to use Behlens.Can you recommend anything? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 18 08:31:58 1998 Subject: Fwd: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) boundary="part0_885133907_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_885133907_boundary This was forwarded to me thought you guys would like to read it.Bret --part0_885133907_boundary air08.mail.aol.com (v37.8) with SMTP; Sat, 17 Jan 1998 22:50:04 -0500 with ESMTP id WAA15641 for ; doing-bs Subject: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) Bret, found this on the 'net. Thought you'd appreciate it. Forwarded message:============================================================================= Newsgroups: rec.outdoors.fishing.fly Hello,The fishing news groups are quite new to me. As I browse and read themessages, I find that some feelings exist against flyfishing andflyfishers, and more particularly against the users of bamboo as beingsomehow snobbish or elite. I don't want to offend anybody, but would it beokay if I say something about this? If you don't want to read it, pleasejust skip it now. I'm an old guy who grew up poor, without complaint then or now, duringthedepression. I had a paper route, did odd jobs, shoveled snow, mowedlawns.In 1940, when I was 14, my first fly rod cost me $1.67 at a Coast toCoasthardware store, and with it I bought some cheap gut leaders. Nothingsnobbish about that or the way we fished. After Navy duty in WWII, I firsttied flies with supplies bought by mail from old George Leonard Herter. Nothing snobbish about George Leonard. Not no way, not no how. In 1947,with blank sections bought from old George, I made up a bamboo rod, tosavea buck and have some fun. the kid with a stick, off to try to catch a fish. I don't even mind(please forgive) if somebody calls a bamboo rod a "fishpole." "Let's getour poles and go fishing." "When?" "Now!" Nothing snobbish about that. Bamboo. It's fun to say. Like "greenheart," another word that's fun tosay. Unlike, to me, "fibreglas" or "graphite." Further, it's fun tofiddle with bamboo, with thread, guides, tiptops. Fun, even, to scrapeoff old varnish. Yes, and to put it all together and wave it around andget the feel of that stick. It is, after all, just a bunch of sticksglued together into one stick, isn't it? Certainly, much science and technology goes into the making of a fibreglasor graphite rod. Largely it's a mystery to me, maybe to most of us. Onthe other hand, I can somewhat understand the making of a bamboo rod,and Iadmire and respect the handwork, the craftsmanship that goes into itsinitial construction. Not many people do much with their hands any more. Maybe it's just a feeling for tradition. Probably because of that feeling, I admire the warmth of wood, of bamboo. Admire it, maybe even, to......caress it. I haven't yet caressed afibreglas or graphite rod. Well, I have a pretty good Browning graphite(60 bucks) and a (wow) 80+ dollar IMG with a beautiful reel seat, made inTaiwan, and I've almost caressed it, but.....not like bamboo. I recognizethat a kid or teenager today, first used to graphite, may well have thesame affection for his or her "new pole." Moreover I realize that a fibreglas or graphite rod delivers more "power.' It will not rot or come unglued or take a set. You can't slam the car dooror close the trunk lid on it, but it will stand some abuse. You have togive more care to bamboo. But that was for me a good learning process. You can't treat bamboo likethe horse that was "rode hard and put away wet." You must wipe it off,dryit, keep it dry. You don't stand it in a corner or against the wall orbang it around. You nurse it, gentle it, dare I say, respect it? Butthat's a good lesson to apply not only to a flyrod (or to any kind offishing equipment), but to bicyles, clothes, cars, even.....to people. With this background, it never dawned on me that flyfishing or bamboo hadanything snobbish about it, or that it was for any kind of elite. If I hadfelt that, I would have known that I didn't belong. So it does bother mesomewhat that in recent years flyfishing has given the impression tosomethat it has gone "high class" or Hollywood-ish, and that is has probably infact drawn some snobs, or that some feel snobbish about their place in it. At the same time, I don't begrudge those who can pay for expensivelessons,hire guides, buy thousands of dollars worth of equipment. A couple yearsago, at a shop in Livingston, the owner's son told me that they had justsold a $1,600 Ovis rod over the phone, to mail out. I can only blink atsuch goings on. Not to go off into rapture or anything like it, but to me one of thebeautiful things about flycasting lies in the curve that a flyline makeswhen you throw it. Have you seen Winslow Homer's painting of the guy inthe canoe, moving his flyline through the air? Nature, if this is correct,has no straight lines, and the graceful flow of a flyline seems somehowalive. Actually, I'd say the same thing about any kind of line flowing from any kind of rod or reel, for it's not restricted to fly casting, and Ido enjoy all kinds of fishing. Like water that's too high and gone off color, some things still rile me. But then too, as you grow older, you generally grow more respectful of theway others go about things. So it seems to me that the world has room forthe kid with a stick, for the guy in between who just wants to get offsomewhere and fish a bit, and for snobs as well. Who knows but what anyofus might be a snob, if we just had the money. I hope with this bit that I haven't touched anybody off. If so, pleaseignore it. It'll pass quickly. And you could have just skipped it. Jess Thompson --part0_885133907_boundary-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Jan 18 08:55:05 1998 Subject: RE:Rod finishing/Dipped? RO>OK guys I have another question to put forth to you. I know a lot of youarRO>dipping your rods to finish them and I suppose some of you are using abrushRO>to apply the finish. But I was wondering what would be wrong withapplyingRO>the finish by spraying. you could use a touch-up gun by Binks forexample.RO>would love to hear your thoughts on this. Tradition aside I think thiswouldRO>be a great way to finish a rod.RO>Bret Bret, Many of the larger old production companies did spray their rods. Idon't see how it matters how you get a finish on a rod as long as it isdust free and smooth. Don B.Flyfisher@cmix.com from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Sun Jan 18 09:15:24 1998 mailfep2-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: ricksrods type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" john channer wrote: Maybe its my older version of explorer or something ... I think you've answered your own question ... you're browser doesn'ssupport 'frames' -- and since the site you're trying to view has beenbuilt with 'frames', you won't see the web site as it was designed tobe viewed. A simple upgrade to a later version of Netscape or Explorershould fix things. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rods / http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from channer@frontier.net Sun Jan 18 09:18:27 1998 Subject: ricksrods Onis;I've suspedted inadequacies in iether my computer or software for sometime,am working on upgrading my browser, but haven't quite figured it outyet. In the meantime I'ld still appreciate it if someone would post their(ricks) phone number for me .Sorry to be so helpless, thanks alot.John Channer from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Jan 18 10:02:37 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Blanks John A. Whitaker wrote: www.ricksrods.com Phone:(303) 778-7911 Here's the number as originally posted -- hope it helps from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Jan 18 10:16:36 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: hide glue I have a 250 year old varnish formula that uses seed lac or button lac(what shellac is made out of), propolis (what bees glue their hivestogether) and poppy oil. I don't have the formula with me as I'm at worktoday (12 hour days 7 days a week--getting ready to go to Dominicanrepublic to repair a airplane as the manufacturing engineer forboeing,not working for a violin shop because got tired of fixinginstruments at $4,50 and hour for people who make $20 and hour) but Iwill send you the recipe on Monday. You can get seed or button lac fromgarret wade, propels from a honey bee raiser and poppy oil from a artsupply store. This is a excellent honey/cinnamon colored very flexibleand water resistant varnish. It's about as close as you can come to thevarnishes of the great masters. ----------From: DrBamboo[SMTP:DrBamboo@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 18, 1998 6:14 AM Subject: Re: hide glue Patrick;Maybe you can help.Need to refinish a violin for a friend.Violinshops areeven moresecretive than old rod shops and are hesitant to sell anyvarnish.Tradesecrets youknow.Would prefer not to use Behlens.Can you recommend anything? from tdgoad@widomaker.com Sun Jan 18 10:28:38 1998 Subject: e-mail Rodmakers, I don't know how or why I am receiving your e-mail communications at myaddress, but I am. If at all possible, I would like it to stop. How is myaddress in this "loop", and how can it deleted from this "loop"? Thanks, Jeff from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Jan 18 10:30:27 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) I'm probably way off base but this guys sounds like a real jerk if hethinks that just because somebody pays $1600 for a fly rod that he's asnob. The guy ought to break down his dentist bill ($300 an hour) automechanic ($60 an hour) and multiply that times the hours it takes tobuild a A grade bamboo fly rod and he'll find out that $1600 is prettycheap. I haven't seen any of us charging that or acting like snobs or their bamboo as a matter of fact I have run into people who felt likethat about their plastic poles. I know I probably shouldn't be offendedbut you can take the boy out of the jerk but you can't take the jerk outof the boy. This isn't 1930 and you can't get gas for a nickel. ----------From: Grhghlndr[SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 18, 1998 6:31 AM Subject: Fwd: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) This was forwarded to me thought you guys would like to read it.Bret from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 18 10:41:07 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA02941 for; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 10:51:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine Steve, I re-subscribed when I did not hear from them on January 11th (re:Wayne's post). They e-mailed a confirmation the following day. Tryagain. They must be quite busy and a bit disorganized. I don't envythe headaches they must be enduring through this start up. I'vesubscribed to several 'hobby' magazines (bonsai) which came about. Somemade it, some did not. One did exeptionally well. I would think thetarget markets here in the U.S. would be of comparable size. The onemagazine that did well has a large market in Europe and S. America. Ithink that for any slick publication to do well it must have at least50,000 to 100,000 subscribers or else it would be expensive as *@#$. Rick from stpete@netten.net Sun Jan 18 11:03:47 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA03932 for; Sun, 18 Jan 1998 11:14:19 -0600 Subject: Varnish I have been refinishing bamboo rods for a year or so, for my own use. Got some great deals on nice cane rods by buying Heddons, Phillipson,Edwards, Southbend-Cross rods (ahem, some H-I and Southbend also)whichneeded a little work to make fine fishing tools. My question... What 'brand' varnish would you recommend? I find that there is nosource in town for spar varnish which does not contain somepolyurethanes. My rods look fine. Will any good quality spar varnishsuit my purposes or will I regret not getting the 'old' formula sparvarnishes. I am in the process of making my first rod and I'd like touse the 'right stuff'. BTW, I recall the conversations regarding Tung oil. I think I prefervarnish, unless someone can tell me the distinct advantages of Tung oilover varnish. I'm not ready for polyurathane YET. Will they be'traditional' in 30 years? Rick from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sun Jan 18 11:27:14 1998 ix1.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: ricksrods Here it is. Voice Phone (303) 778-7911Fax Phone (303) 778-7344 RegardsOnisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com At 07:10 AM 1/18/98, you wrote:Onis;I've suspedted inadequacies in iether my computer or software for sometime,am working on upgrading my browser, but haven't quite figured itoutyet. In the meantime I'ld still appreciate it if someone would post their(ricks) phone number for me .Sorry to be so helpless, thanks alot.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Jan 18 11:36:54 1998 Subject: Varnish RO>I have been refinishing bamboo rods for a year or so, for my own use.RO>Got some great deals on nice cane rods by buying Heddons, Phillipson,RO>Edwards, Southbend-Cross rods (ahem, some H-I and Southbend also)whichRO>needed a little work to make fine fishing tools. My question... RO>What 'brand' varnish would you recommend? I find that there is noRO>source in town for spar varnish which does not contain someRO>polyurethanes. My rods look fine. Will any good quality spar varnishRO>suit my purposes or will I regret not getting the 'old' formula sparRO>varnishes. I am in the process of making my first rod and I'd like toRO>use the 'right stuff'. RO>BTW, I recall the conversations regarding Tung oil. I think I preferRO>varnish, unless someone can tell me the distinct advantages of TungoilRO>over varnish. I'm not ready for polyurathane YET. Will they beRO>'traditional' in 30 years? RO>Rick Rick, If you want to maintain the style of finish as found on these rods, I'dstick with spar varnish. Else use what you can find. I can't believe youcan't find a spar varnish at some good old-fashion local hardware store. While there look for a small can of clear lacquer for wrap preserver usetoo. I presently use McCosky's spar varnish, just happen to have been able topickup 2 gallons of pre-VOC law varnish when the local ACE hardwarestore closed up. The local OSH (hardware chain) carries this brand also(new VOC stuff) and the local Home Depot has Helmsman Spar Varnish thatI think is without polyurethane. I've used ACE spar varnish in the past and found it to be less yellowthan the McCosky's brand and have had god results with it - mostly onHeddon, H-i and Montague restorations. I still have a small can that Iuse for wrap touch up jobs. Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 18 11:42:44 1998 Subject: Re: Varnish In a message dated 1/18/98 9:07:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,stpete@netten.netwrites: BTW, I recall the conversations regarding Tung oil. I think I prefervarnish, unless someone can tell me the distinct advantages of Tung oilover varnish. I'm not ready for polyurathane YET. Will they be'traditional' in 30 years? Tung oil the the easiest to repair. Scratch or ding your rod, and allyou need to do rub on some fresh tung oil and you're done. Sparvarnish is repairable also, but you need to do some careful buffingto get the lumps out. Polyurethane is the hardest to repair, butout of all the finishes polyurethane is also the hardest and leastlikely to take the scratch or ding. Darryl Hayashida from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Jan 18 13:52:56 1998 Subject: Re: Fwd: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) FEC2ACF80ADE222805DBBDB4" --------------FEC2ACF80ADE222805DBBDB4 This is a great letter! I am no where near as old as Mr. Thompson(forget my hair, Creek's are all prematurely bald) but I can relate tohis feelings. Sounds like something my dad would have written. And as to the snobs, in his Fishing Bamboo John G. points out that lotsof good stuff is wasted on ass-holes. (See what Josie started?) Brian --------------FEC2ACF80ADE222805DBBDB4 (forget my hair, Creek's are all prematurely bald) but I can relate to And as to the snobs, in his Fishing Bamboo John G. points out started?) Brian --------------FEC2ACF80ADE222805DBBDB4-- from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Jan 18 13:58:02 1998 Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) Patrick -Yep, you're way off base. Read the letter again. What Mr. Thompsonwas saying is that there's room for everyone, and that bamboo flyrodsdon't equal jerks.And I'm preety dumbfounded that someone would pay $1600 for an Orvisrodwhen you could get so much more from a private maker for the samemoney,and maybe I'd know the guy and he could buy me a drink of really oldscotch. Brian from EMiller257@aol.com Sun Jan 18 15:11:52 1998 Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) I think you're right on. The guy sounded like someone's uncle reminisingabouthow it used to be , and I always like those kind of stories not having arelative around to tell me them personally. I really liked it. Ed M. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Jan 18 15:49:48 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA10777 +0000 Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) I'm glad I'm not the only one who read it that way (like EMiller257). Isaw the originalposting and e-mailed the guy with a suggested supplier or two to keep hiscosts downand keep him fly-fishing. Personally, I feel a bit the same way...I stumbled on a website with threeGarrison rods forsale...the "cheap" one is $6,000!!! (If you have to ask how much theexpensive one was,you can't afford it. For the record, it is $10,000!!!) I don't begrudgeanyone a decent living the speculatorswho are driving up the prices, i.e., the rods in question are seldom ifever fished -- just someonehoping to turn a fast buck without working. The only saving grace is bynot fishing them(risking their investment), they are (inadvertently) preserving the rods atleast to be seen investment that is easierto predict than a "beanie baby"! (climbing down off the soapbox),George Bourke ----------From: EMiller257 Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd)Date: Sunday, January 18, 1998 1:01 PM I think you're right on. The guy sounded like someone's uncle reminisingabouthow it used to be , and I always like those kind of stories not having arelative around to tell me them personally. I really liked it. Ed M. from DrBamboo@aol.com Sun Jan 18 17:34:10 1998 Subject: Re: hide glue Patrick;Tried to get you direct.Transmission failed.Appreciate your help.Willreciprocate.Please send recipe when convenient. Thanks'George from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 18 18:37:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Rod finishing/Dipped? Carsten,As in any finishing you should try to make your area as dust free aspossible.I made a spray booth just by using some visqueen and a fan. Let dustsettleafter you walk in for about 20 minutes or so. Bret from harry37@epix.net Sun Jan 18 18:48:58 1998 TAA25020 Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) Brett, Thanks for that posting--When I read the comment about "someone's unclereminiscing" I realized that the reason I really enjoyed reading it wasthat it reminded me so much of the grandfather who started me tyingflies when I was 8 years old but wasn't alive when I finally got goodenough that my flies could actually be fished with. Thanks again--it brought back a lot of very fond memories from a longtime ago. Greg Kuntz from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 18 19:36:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) Well I am glad that some of you guys liked that letter. It reminded me ofmylate father who got me started in this game that I love so much. My dadgaveme three bamboo rods when I was 16 and also gave me some great bookson thesport. I always tell everyone this thing saved my life. I was running withsome real bad people at the time and my dad saw it and sat me down onenightand opened the world to me and there was flyfishing. I hope that you guysdolike I did and print this to save in your literature. Again I am glad youliked it and I say to you , you are welcome.Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Jan 18 20:29:39 1998 Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) RO>Well I am glad that some of you guys liked that letter. It reminded meof mRO>late father who got me started in this game that I love so much. Mydad gavRO>me three bamboo rods when I was 16 and also gave me some greatbooks on theRO>sport. I always tell everyone this thing saved my life. I was runningwithRO>some real bad people at the time and my dad saw it and sat me downone nightRO>and opened the world to me and there was flyfishing. I hope that youguys dRO>like I did and print this to save in your literature. Again I am glad youRO>liked it and I say to you , you are welcome.RO>Bret Bret, My dad gave me his 3 bamboos also - and I enjoyed the post too. Don Burns PS - Heading back to MoTown on weds., might be my late chance to see mydad. He's really starting to fail - been on Oxygen since Christmas. PPS - Guy's don't post too much stuff this week - I don't want to be"Josie'd" when I come back! from sats@gte.net Sun Jan 18 20:42:48 1998 Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) .... The only saving grace is bynot fishing them(risking their investment), they are (inadvertently) preserving the rods atleast to be seen There's a second economic reason for having them in collections. It meansthatthere are fewer bamboo rods in the market. (If this is bad or good, I'llleaveup to you to decide.)Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sun Jan 18 20:45:40 1998 Subject: Somerset show I'm going to be in New Jersey next weekend...so... where in Somerset is theFly Fishing Show and what time do the festivities start Fri.? TIADennis from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sun Jan 18 20:45:51 1998 Subject: First Rod My best friend has three kids. The two oldest are girls and love horses butnot fishing. The youngest(7) is a boy who loves soccer and computers butjust recently expressed a desire to go fly fishing. His birthday is in sixdays and his dad has aquired a set of Simms custom neoprene waders forhim... figured he could "borrow" rod & reel but had to have waders that fit tofish this Spring in Colorado/New Mexico. His dad and I fish the South Platt,Arkansas,Blue and the San Juan (water temps in the mid 40's yeararound).... tiny dry flies, nymphing w/ strike indicaters and afternoonwind are the norm. So... If you were going to build a first rod for a7-year-old to fish Colorado ...what would it be? A 7', 4wt, 9', 5wt????maybe 8 1/2', 4/5 wt?I can't build a rod for him in time for his birthday,. but he can starton his Mom's 8 1/2', 5wt. I can build a rod for him in time for the fishinglater this spring/summer..So.. what would you build??? Graphite orBamboo?? Dennis (thinking of a7'9",5 wt.) Higham from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sun Jan 18 22:21:24 1998 Subject: Re: Somerset show -----Original Message----- I'm going to be in New Jersey next weekend...so... where in Somerset istheFly Fishing Show and what time do the festivities start Fri.? TIADennis I - 287 off I - 95 at Garden State Exhibit Ctr. - take exit 10. onto Rt 527North (Easton Ave.) At first light turn left onto Davidson Ave. Go 1/2mile, Exhibit Ctr on left. Jan 23, 24, 25. Wayne is scheduled to be theresat - sun. Call (800) 420 7582 for more info. Ted G. from jczimny@dol.net Sun Jan 18 22:56:55 1998 Subject: Re: Somerset show dennis higham wrote: I'm going to be in New Jersey next weekend...so... where in Somerset istheFly Fishing Show and what time do the festivities start Fri.? TIADennisHi Dennis,The show is at the Garden State Exhibition Center. This is right off of287 (exit 10) Outside of New Brunswick.John from channer@frontier.net Mon Jan 19 01:08:04 1998 Subject: Thanks Joe/OnisThanks for helping someone who can't see the forest for the trees.I guessI'll have to learn not to empty the trash until I've got allthe info out ofit.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 19 01:38:52 1998 Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:38:44 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Terry L. Kirkpatrick wrote: .... The only saving grace is bynot fishing them(risking their investment), they are (inadvertently) preserving the rodsatleast to be seen There's a second economic reason for having them in collections. Itmeans thatthere are fewer bamboo rods in the market. (If this is bad or good, I'llleaveup to you to decide.)Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net All this high priced bamboo rod stuff reminds me of what I read happened a few years back with stamp collecting.Prices became so inflated because people saw a quick buck that everything became value oriented and the poor slobs just wanting to collect stamps got priced out of the hobby untill the inevitable happened and prices just crashed. The coming to earth of the tiger collectors I guess you could say.Bamboo rods, like stamps have no real value expept in the use they were intended, IMHO and once the "value" or to be more accurate amount people will pay exceeds a reasonable amount they loose the purpose for which they were intended and become objects valuable only because (some)people will pay for them. Am I impressed by these prices? No.Would I own one, only for as long as it would take me to sell it to some-one who I know because of what it'd sell for will only see it's $ cost and not it's true value. Pointless realy. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Mon Jan 19 01:39:40 1998 Subject: 1st rod Dennis;I live in Durango,Co. and fish the Juan every chance I get, went today as amatter of fact and it was great.Sweatshirt weather, sun shining and fishrising to midges everywhere. I use an 8' 5 wt. Garrison 212 and almostalways fish dry.Size 24 parachutes tied with black thread bodies, foampostclipped short and grizzly hackle work very well for me. Can't standnymphing, too much like fishing bait.If you go to the Juan late in thespring, call ahead for water levels, over about 1500 feet is going to berough wading for a youngster. If the water levels are up, try the braidsupstream from the prking lot by the church,there can be some nice fish inthere during high water and the wading is easy. I hope I'm not telling youstuff you already know.7'9" sounds like a good all around rod to me and byall means make it bamboo.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 19 01:42:47 1998 Mon, 19 Jan 1998 15:42:40 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: First Rod I made a WC 7' #4 for my 12 yo about 12 months ago. He thinks he's bullet proof when he uses it and he looks after it like nothing I've ever seen him look after anything before. Breakages? Just one, and that was me. It's since been fixed and he's been catching fish with it again.Make him a bamboo rod, and just shrug when it gets broken and repair it Tony On Sun, 18 Jan 1998, dennis higham wrote: My best friend has three kids. The two oldest are girls and love horsesbutnot fishing. The youngest(7) is a boy who loves soccer and computers butjust recently expressed a desire to go fly fishing. His birthday is in sixdays and his dad has aquired a set of Simms custom neoprene waders forhim... figured he could "borrow" rod & reel but had to have waders that fit tofish this Spring in Colorado/New Mexico. His dad and I fish the SouthPlatt,Arkansas,Blue and the San Juan (water temps in the mid 40's yeararound).... tiny dry flies, nymphing w/ strike indicaters and afternoonwind are the norm. So... If you were going to build a first rod for a7-year-old to fish Colorado ...what would it be? A 7', 4wt, 9', 5wt????maybe 8 1/2', 4/5 wt?I can't build a rod for him in time for his birthday,. but he can starton his Mom's 8 1/2', 5wt. I can build a rod for him in time for the fishinglater this spring/summer..So.. what would you build??? Graphite orBamboo?? Dennis (thinking of a7'9",5 wt.) Higham /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Mon Jan 19 02:18:40 1998 ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 21:18:26 +1300 Subject: Re: Imagine the frustration of a Kiwi( I think the only one on this list nowthat Josie has departed ) returning from a fishing holiday and expectingtofind 2-300 messages on email and finding there were quite a few extra ..andmany involving uninformed comment regarding Kiwis :)). Tony may well be prepared to accept my offer to the status as honary Kiwiafter his explanations , and sort of defence , of where Kiwis come frombutafter the latest woeful performances of the NZ cricket team in Australia hemay wish to leave the appointment until the rugby season comes around . Like Tony , sorry to take up bandwidth , and I did delete my responses toHank and John in the interests of message overload , but I just had to saysomething Ian K At 09:55 AM 14/01/98 +0800, you wrote: From: Tony Young Not all Kiwis speak like that. I am NOT a kiwi.Tony snip Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Jan 19 06:35:47 1998 Subject: Excess Project Rods To All: I have some excess project rods for sale. Email me directly if you'reinterested. Thanks. --Rich from Marty.Ball@noaa.gov Mon Jan 19 08:57:06 1998 RFC822 Gateway); Mon, 19 Jan 1998 09:57:27 -0500Content-Identifier: 057D234C369D6001Content-Return: Allowed 76250.1771@compuserve.com (IPM Return requested)Subject: Re: First Rod Dennis;In all seriousness I would suggest a rod blank that is durable and inexpensive. For my two young daughters I chose Fenwick fiberglass 7ft. 5wt. blanks on the supposition that fiberglass is a relatively tough material. I also wanted to avoid oppressing them with the idea that they had expensive rods that had to be handled delicately and reverently. If the rod breaks, no big deal, we can fix it or make another. But when we go out they can concentrate on the fishing and not on the rod. I figure the love is in the crafting of a personal rod and not in the expense of the materials chosen. Marty Ball ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________ My best friend has three kids. The two oldest are girls and love horsesbut not fishing. The youngest(7) is a boy who loves soccer and computersbut just recently expressed a desire to go fly fishing. His birthday is in six -snip-I can't build a rod for him in time for his birthday,. but he can starton his Mom's 8 1/2', 5wt. I can build a rod for him in time for the fishing later this spring/summer..So.. what would you build??? Graphite or Bamboo?? Dennis (thinking of a7'9",5 wt.) Higham from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Mon Jan 19 09:05:40 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: re letter from "Jesse" From: Grhghlndr[SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 18, 1998 6:31 AM Subject: Fwd: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) This was forwarded to me thought you guys would like to read it.Bret I didn't read what some of you apparently read in Jesse's letter. Icertainly don't consider him a "jerk," but someone with a lot of wisdom toshare. He clearly states that he doesn't begrudge those with the funds todo high end fly fishing. Indeed, I think that he was appalled that someonewould spend $1600 to purchase, mail order, a rod without feeling orseeingit. I personally thought the letter was pure poetry. Like Robert Traver's"Testament of a Fisherman" or Charles Kuralt's "Every time I string up afly rod...", just wish that I had the sensitivity to write those samewords. Jerry Snider. from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Mon Jan 19 09:17:48 1998 (AST) 19 Jan 98 10:22:35 -0500 0500 ESMTP;19 Jan 98 10:21:30 -0500 Subject: Re: re letter from "Jesse" Where would one get a copy of the two letters that are included in theemail. I am interested in reading them.Jerry Snider wrote: From: Grhghlndr[SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 18, 1998 6:31 AM Subject: Fwd: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) This was forwarded to me thought you guys would like to read it.Bret I didn't read what some of you apparently read in Jesse's letter. Icertainly don't consider him a "jerk," but someone with a lot ofwisdom toshare. He clearly states that he doesn't begrudge those with the fundstodo high end fly fishing. Indeed, I think that he was appalled thatsomeonewould spend $1600 to purchase, mail order, a rod without feeling orseeingit. I personally thought the letter was pure poetry. Like RobertTraver's"Testament of a Fisherman" or Charles Kuralt's "Every time I stringup afly rod...", just wish that I had the sensitivity to write those samewords. Jerry Snider. from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Mon Jan 19 09:33:13 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Where would one get a copy of the two letters that are included in theemail. I am interested in reading them.Jerry Snider wrote: I believe that Traver's appeared first in his book "Anatomy of aFisherman." I have even seen it on a web page or two, and it is mounted onmy office wall.Charles Kuralt's paragraph came from his book, "Charles Kuralt's America,"and it appears in the chapter on "Montana." At least for me, Kuralt's wordsare equally as significant and powerful as Traver's "Testament," fallinginto that category of "Things I wish that I had said!" Jerry Snider from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Mon Jan 19 09:38:53 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, Subject: holding down strips during final planing Couldn't find much in the archives, so thought I would risk asking. How inthe world do you folks hold down the bamboo strip in the planing formduring those last few thousands of an inch being planed? I have triedWayne's Pink Pearl eraser to no avail, even went to art gum erasers (farbetter, IMO, but still don't do the job easily).I get so aggravated I want to SPIT! Have thought about trying Play Dough,super glue (just kidding!). Am on my third rod and this seems to be theunsolvable problem. What variety of techniques do you folks use??Jerry Snider from cgriffin@selway.umt.edu Mon Jan 19 09:55:16 1998 08:55:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Excess Project Rods Hi Rich, I'm interested in seeing the project rod list. (Couldn't "see" your e-mail address on the last posting...I apologize forcluttering mailboxes with this...just in case Josie is stilllurking....).... Cary Griffin -----Original Message----- Subject: Excess Project Rods To All: I have some excess project rods for sale. Email me directly if you'reinterested. Thanks. --Rich from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Mon Jan 19 10:05:48 1998 (AST) 19 Jan 98 11:10:34 -0500 0500 ESMTP;19 Jan 98 11:10:19 -0500 Subject: Re: Excess Project Rods I would also be interested could you send it to the list or to me alsothanksCary Griffin wrote: Hi Rich, I'm interested in seeing the project rod list. (Couldn't "see" your e-mail address on the last posting...I apologizeforcluttering mailboxes with this...just in case Josie is stilllurking....).... Cary Griffin -----Original Message-----From: RMargiotta Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 5:36 AMSubject: Excess Project Rods To All: I have some excess project rods for sale. Email me directly ifyou'reinterested. Thanks. --Rich from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Jan 19 10:35:36 1998 Subject: North East Antique Anglers Show - not, but . . . Hi all, FYI: I had posted an inquiry here on the List about Tony Flynn a coupleweeks ago. Finally got ahold of him. The Ben Clark - N. E. A. A. show wascancelled as many folks may know. Tony has decided to have a show sameplace, March 20, 21, 22 called "New England Sporting Collectibles Show". Regards, Ted G. from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Jan 19 11:34:35 1998 (CET) ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:47:15 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Rod finishing/Dipped? ----------From: Grhghlndr> Carsten,As in any finishing you should try to make your area as dust free aspossible.I made a spray booth just by using some visqueen and a fan. Let dustsettleafter you walk in for about 20 minutes or so. Bret Bret Used to repair and restore veteran and vintage motorcyckles for myselfandfriends.(Still got a 1949 BSA 500 twin) Believe me, if any dust milesaround is free to wander, it ends up where I am spraying. Once, when livingsomewhere else, I rigged up a spraybooth with water running down thewalls plus a higher airpressure in the booth, fed through filters. And yes,onceI had dust in the laquer of a gas tank for a Norton Inter. I HATE dust inthe varnish. Best regards Carsten from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Jan 19 11:34:37 1998 (CET) ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 17:47:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing ----------From: Jerry Snider Couldn't find much in the archives, so thought I would risk asking. Howinthe world do you folks hold down the bamboo strip in the planing formduring those last few thousands of an inch being planed? I have triedWayne's Pink Pearl eraser to no avail, even went to art gum erasers (farbetter, IMO, but still don't do the job easily).I get so aggravated I want to SPIT! Have thought about trying Play Dough,super glue (just kidding!). Am on my third rod and this seems to be theunsolvable problem. What variety of techniques do you folks use??Jerry Snider Most of the time my plane plus the law of gravity keep the strips in thegroove. When not succeeding, try straightening the splines, preferrably atan earlier stage, dont wait until the last few thousands are to be shaved.Have You tried chewing gum? :-) Best regards Carsten from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jan 19 11:41:12 1998 Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing In a message dated 1/19/98 7:41:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,jerry.snider@UC.Edu writes: How in the world do you folks hold down the bamboo strip in the planing form during those last few thousands of an inch being planed? What variety of techniques do you folks use?? It's going to be in the Tip and Tricks column of the new BambooFlyrod Magazine - if it ever comes out. I use a Stanley Quick-Clamp.I leave the biggest end of my spline about 8 inches long and oversizeso the clamp can hold it. The Stanley clamp has yellow rubber padsand is one of those trigger action bar clamp types. The clamp getsin the way of your plane, so you have to have your spline 8 to 10 inches longer, but you can use both hands on the plane, and it givesyou a lot more control in downward pressure, keeping your planelevel, and how much forward pressure you put on the plane. Onedrawback of using the clamp is you have to put your plane down,release the clamp, flip the spline over, and tighten the clamp, andpick up the plane again to get both sides of the spline, but thecontrol gained by being able to use both hands on your plane, Ifeel is worth it. Darryl Hayashida from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jan 19 11:58:36 1998 Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing I wear those little rubber finger tips from the office supply store.Size 12.I read that Garrison wore them, and they work great! Brian from WDHCJL@aol.com Mon Jan 19 11:59:59 1998 Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) In a message dated 98-01-19 02:41:36 EST, you write: I guess we could go on and on...when my grandfather passed he had ablacksmithshop as part of the farm, I thought that blacksmithing might beinteresting.Then I tried to buy certain tools! I was told by WORKING blacksmiths thatthecollectors and thier prices made it vitually impossible to buy tools forWORKING blacksmiths.You can draw your own conclusions>doug from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jan 19 12:12:02 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 19Jan 1998 13:13:45 -0500 Subject: A nodeless experience! Last night I planed the tip section of my first nodeless rod! What a beauty. I thought all the talk about nodeless rods being easier to plane was hocus pocus but I stand corrected. It was fun, but I hope the rod of 12" toothpicks doesn't crumble while casting! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from gord@teleport.com Mon Jan 19 12:40:15 1998 mail1.teleport.com (8.8.7/8.7.3) with ESMTP id KAA19875 for Subject: Re: I believe that Traver's appeared first in his book "Anatomy of aFisherman." I have even seen it on a web page or two, and it is mountedonmy office wall. The full Traver quote is on the web at... http://www.ee.mtu.edu/faculty/schulz/testament.html flyshop.com. Anyone notice that in the film of Traver's 'Anatomy of aMurder'Paul Biegler (played by Jimmy Stewart) puts the cap back on his rod tubeon hisway to go fishing? Didn't look like Stewart was a fisherman - hestruggles agood bit with the cap threads. Cheers,Gord from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jan 19 12:53:18 1998 Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing I use a Stanley Quick-Clamp. I leave the biggest end of my spline about 8 inches long and oversize so the clamp can hold it. I can see I dashed off my reply and didn't quite say what I wanted to.You have to have your spline 8 to 10 inches longer than the requiredlength for your finished spline, because the plane butts up against theclamp and you can't start your stroke right at the end of the spline. Theexcess gets trimmed off just before or after glue up, doesn't reallymatter, but I find it easier to trim a glued up blank. Another advantage is myfingersholding down the spline used to get sore after pressing down on the spline Darryl Hayashida from rfairfie@cisco.com Mon Jan 19 13:09:42 1998 LAA04860 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 11:09:09 - Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing Darryl, I do something quite similar to what you do, but I'm using a springloaded work working clamp. It works great, and is quick. the jaws arelinedwith soft plastic and grip the strip and the planing form tightly. These were the best stocking stuffers I ever received! Roger from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jan 19 10:02:20 1998Date: Mon, 19 Jan 1998 12:13:22 EST Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: SalarFly Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planingContent-transfer- encoding: 7bitX-Mailer: Inet_Mail_Out (IMOv11)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN In a message dated 1/19/98 7:41:57 AM Pacific Standard Time,jerry.snider@UC.Edu writes: How in the world do you folks hold down the bamboo strip in theplaning form during those last few thousands of an inch being planed? What variety of techniques do you folks use?? It's going to be in the Tip and Tricks column of the new BambooFlyrod Magazine - if it ever comes out. I use a Stanley Quick-Clamp.I leave the biggest end of my spline about 8 inches long and oversizeso the clamp can hold it. The Stanley clamp has yellow rubber padsand is one of those trigger action bar clamp types. The clamp getsin the way of your plane, so you have to have your spline 8 to 10 inches longer, but you can use both hands on the plane, and it givesyou a lot more control in downward pressure, keeping your planelevel, and how much forward pressure you put on the plane. Onedrawback of using the clamp is you have to put your plane down,release the clamp, flip the spline over, and tighten the clamp, andpick up the plane again to get both sides of the spline, but thecontrol gained by being able to use both hands on your plane, Ifeel is worth it. Darryl Hayashida from mrj@seanet.com Mon Jan 19 13:36:08 1998 mx.seanet.com (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA03777 for Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing I use a spring loaded clamp. I elevate the planing form and I glued a pieceof dense foam to one end of the clamp. The strip does not really have to beany longer than normal as you just flip the form end for end and do the butsection (about a foot or so) and then flip it back. This works great and mystrips are only about a couple of inches over-length. Use a really densefoam if you do this. I personally did not want to trust the plastic tipsthough in hind sight they might work just fine.Martin Jensen-----Original Message----- Subject: holding down strips during final planing Couldn't find much in the archives, so thought I would risk asking. How inthe world do you folks hold down the bamboo strip in the planing formduring those last few thousands of an inch being planed? I have triedWayne's Pink Pearl eraser to no avail, even went to art gum erasers (farbetter, IMO, but still don't do the job easily).I get so aggravated I want to SPIT! Have thought about trying Play Dough,super glue (just kidding!). Am on my third rod and this seems to be theunsolvable problem. What variety of techniques do you folks use??Jerry Snider from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jan 19 14:21:19 1998 Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing In a message dated 1/19/98 11:38:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,mrj@seanet.comwrites: I use a spring loaded clamp. I elevate the planing form and I glued a pieceof dense foam to one end of the clamp. The strip does not really have tobeany longer than normal as you just flip the form end for end and do thebutsection (about a foot or so) and then flip it back. I considered the spring clamp but passed it up thinking I could get morepressure from the Stanley clamp. Never tried the spring clamp, apparently it would have worked. Flipping the form around hasn't worked too well and create a lift or chip. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jan 19 14:51:18 1998 Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing I considered the spring clamp but passed it up thinking I could get morepressure from the Stanley clamp. Just remembered another reason I passed on the spring clamp.I clamp the table top, planing form, and spline all together tohold my plaing form steady also. The table top is an inch anda half thick, and with the planing form I would have had to geta fairly large spring clamp which might have required two handsto take off and put on. The Stanley clamp only requires one handto release and reclamp. Darryl Hayashida from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jan 19 15:19:18 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 19Jan 1998 16:21:15 -0500 Subject: Ferrule Distinctions I am ordering some ferrules for a couple rods I am working on. One is a 6'0" 4wt. The other is a 8'0" 5wt. I would like to understand the difference between super z and super swiss styles. Also, am I correct in thinking that I would use a standard ferrule not a truncated ferrule on the short rod. On a side note...every time I set my blade in the Veritas guide I sharpen a slightly different angle. Nor do I get a mirror finish like Wayne talks about in his book. I am using a 1000/6000 water stone and fell like I am getting the blade sharp. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jan 19 15:31:14 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips - Flattening Nodes SalarFly wrote:Any electricians out there have any ideas on how to set up a visewith heated jaws? Darryl, I'm no electrician, in fact scared to death of the stuff, butcould you use two irons, face to face with the handles removed? in arather large vise? Seems like there should be a way.Harry Boyd from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Jan 19 16:23:33 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Distinctions Jon;Super Swiss is basically another name for Super Z. The Super Z is stillcoveredas a tradename. You could use a truncated ferrule on the 6 ' rod noproblem.Lessweight for a smaller rod. As Bailey told me the Super whatever typeferrulesareactually over engineered.I have much better results sharpening with plexi jigs. Just glue twosmallplexi squares,one back set from the other.For instance, a 1/2 " set backusingtheveritas system will give you a perfectly square every time 50 degreesetting blade.Ive never seen a sharpening device that quarantees squareness,thisdoes. from sats@gte.net Mon Jan 19 17:13:43 1998 Subject: Re: First Rod My best friend has three kids. The two oldest are girls and love horsesbut not fishing. The youngest(7) is a boy who loves soccer and computersbut just recently expressed a desire to go fly fishing. His birthday is insix -snip-I can't build a rod for him in time for his birthday,. but he can starton his Mom's 8 1/2', 5wt. I can build a rod for him in time for the fishing later this spring/summer..So.. what would you build???Graphite or Bamboo?? IF you've got an old project rod around. You could build him a 6 1/2 to 7ft.rod in about a day and a half, buy using Sinclair's (actually he got it fromothers) independent handle. All you need it a fairly good tip and midsectionincluding ferrules and tip. If the guides are all there, you need onlyreplacethe bottom guide with a stripper. Build the handle and reel seat, polishandwax the rod and He's ready to go. I'm fishing a couple of rods that costless the $50 and took little time to build. Not works of art or things thatcollectors would slober over, but they fish very well. Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 19 17:37:34 1998 SAA28663 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:38:19-0500 Subject: Re: A nodeless experience! Jon Ah, another convert! Chris On Mon, 19 Jan 1998 13:12:27 +0000, Jon Lintvet wrote: Last night I planed the tip section of my first nodeless rod! What a beauty. I thought all the talk about nodeless rods being easier to plane was hocus pocus but I stand corrected. It was fun, but I hope the rod of 12" toothpicks doesn't crumble while casting! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 Regards Chris from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Jan 19 17:39:22 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I sent an e-mail to bam-fly@pacbell.net on Monday January 12 and got areplyform Mark Matcalf on Tuesday January 13. Rather prompt. Mark Cole from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Jan 19 17:55:51 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine I finally got an answer today. Mark Metcalf sent me an email becausetheir automatic answer program would not answer me. It seems Irequested the subscription four times, one more than I thought. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 19 17:57:40 1998 SAA29101 for ; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:58:33-0500 Subject: Unintended Experiment To All I know we have had discussions about just how heat tolerant orintolerantTitebond-II is. I've saidkey to nodeless is to insure the glue for splices and for glueing up thesplines are compatable - meaninga simular thermal deflection temp. To advoid problems duringstraightening when titebond is moving andthe primary glue isn't..I did not intend to find out just how heat tolerant Titebond-II was -But . . . Last night I put thestrips of the latest rod in my oven and set temp to 125 degrees to keepthem warm and dry since they have been set out in ambient temp and moisture for quite a while - Imade them up this summerprior to my move. Well the oven Thermostat decided to quit! It turned on and did notturn off at 125. Luckly I was inthe office working on finishing another rod. I smelled something (my wifesays it smells like the cornon the cob we cook on the grill). Well - temp was well past 400 (thecanning therometer that I use asa check went kaput and it pegs at 400). The strips was reduced to charcoalor the next best thing. RemarkablyI unplugged the oven and pulled the smoking strips out and put themoutside. This AM I looked at the remains. The Titebond-II was still holding! So I bent the strips into a Ushape - still held - a bit more andthe strip splintered - There was no clean break along the splice - thewhole strip failed. Very impressive.What does this all mean - Nothing, except I replaced the termostattoday and everything is workingfine. It is not an experiment I would reccomend trying unless you like thesmell and really did not like therod very much. Regards Chris from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jan 19 18:02:39 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 19Jan 1998 19:03:46 -0500 Subject: Guide Placement I cannot remember how I figured out the spacing for the 6'3" 3wt I built as my first rod. I now have a 6'0" to figure out. Any suggestions? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from shane.m.hubbs@vanderbilt.edu Mon Jan 19 18:05:24 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 18:05:16 CST Subject: question?? everyone, Due to the passing of my grandfather, I acquired an unmarked rod. Mygrandmothersuspected that the rod is about 40-50 years old but she is not sure of themake ormodel. The catch here is that the rod is made of some type of wood. Iwould liketo refinish the rod as well as replace the snake eyes. The ferrules alsoneedwork. I am not looking for any use out of the rod, but I would much like toseeit refurbished. Any information that can be offered would be greatlyappreciated. Thank you, Shane M. Hubbs from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Jan 19 18:09:33 1998 Subject: Pressing nodes Sunday I spent the afternoon pressing nodes and straightening strips. I hadonly one problem and that was as I was getting ready to press a node. Iheatedthe strip with my heat gun for approximately 1 1/2 minutes and then testflexed the node. After bending slightly with that soft feel that indicatesthelignin has softened, the strip broke. The break was about 1/2 inch fromthecenter of the node, but well with in the area covered by the haet gun. Itwasa clean break straight across the strip. There was no splintering. Was thisbad technique or a bad strip? Mark Cole from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 19 19:40:18 1998 Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:39:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, WDHCJL wrote: In a message dated 98-01-19 02:41:36 EST, you write: a few years back with stamp collecting. >>I guess we could go on and on...when my grandfather passed he had ablacksmithshop as part of the farm, I thought that blacksmithing might beinteresting.Then I tried to buy certain tools! I was told by WORKING blacksmithsthat thecollectors and thier prices made it vitually impossible to buy tools forWORKING blacksmiths.You can draw your own conclusions>doug Try and buy caulking irons! (the things you use to put caulking cotton into the seams of a carval hulled boat.)If you're still interested in blacksmithing try a book called "Tool Making for Woodworkers" from The Lyons Press. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 19 19:41:15 1998 Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:41:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: I wear those little rubber finger tips from the office supply store.Size 12.I read that Garrison wore them, and they work great! Brian If your plane is very sharp finger pressure is enough. When the splines start to want to slip sharpen the iron. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Bopep@aol.com Mon Jan 19 19:46:58 1998 Subject: Re: A nodeless experience! Has anybody done nodeless on a longer (8'6") rod? Any reason not to? Hoffhines from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 19 19:53:05 1998 Tue, 20 Jan 1998 09:52:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bamboo Fly Rod Magazine On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: I finally got an answer today. Mark Metcalf sent me an email becausetheir automatic answer program would not answer me. It seems Irequested the subscription four times, one more than I thought. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO I shouldn't realy say this but I'm starting to think that with all the problems these guys are experiencing in getting this mag afloat that it's becoming a real Titanic enterprise. :-)Good luck to them. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 19 19:57:02 1998 Subject: Re: Rod finishing/Dipped? Brett,Winston uses a spray gun set-up to finish their rods . I've gotten a sraygun (artists') but have been too chicken to go through the trial and error toarrive at the best viscosity,etc. So long as the draining of the varnishfromthe tube works for me I probably won't try the spray. The rod must beturned,probably under heat with a background to keep the spray fromcoatingthe room (although I understand that Payne"s room was coated from floortoceiling with varnish as he snapped the sticks by hand to remove excessvarnish). Go for it and let us know how it turns out.Regards, Hank. from channer@frontier.net Mon Jan 19 19:57:07 1998 Subject: holding strips Hi All!I've found that if I'm having trouble holding down the strips comfortablywith just finger cots, it means either my plane needs sharpening or it isset too deep and I'm about to chip a node beyond repair.Thats another oneof the great things about rodmaking, there really is no right or wrong wayto do something, only what works for you and what doesn't. Plane On!John Channer from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Mon Jan 19 19:57:34 1998 mailfep2-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" I get so aggravated I want to SPIT! Have thought about trying PlayDough,super glue (just kidding!). Am on my third rod and this seems to betheunsolvable problem. What variety of techniques do you folks use?? Jerry:Lots of interesting ideas have been posted. Here's my take on thisone. I find that the nearer the spline gets to its final dimension themore it wants to 'stick' in the form and hold itself in position. Forme, at least, it's more of a problem in the earlier stages when thespline is much larger than the planing form groove. I'm right-handed --and, always grip and work the plane with my right hand. So, with my'free' left hand, I grip the rear of spline near the butt -- and pressit hard into the grove. I also use my free left hand to flip the splineback and forth, while the right hand keeps planing away to finaldimension. For my way of working, it seems 'the simpler the better' -- never had a need here for any clamps or special gadgets. Joe Loverti / http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from Bopep@aol.com Mon Jan 19 20:16:41 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Distinctions/ Veritas inconsistancies Yeah me too Jon, any suggestions out there? from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Jan 19 20:22:15 1998 Subject: Re: Pressing nodes In a message dated 1/19/98 4:14:24 PM Pacific Standard Time,MasjC1@aol.comwrites: After bending slightly with that soft feel that indicates thelignin has softened, the strip broke. The break was about 1/2 inch fromthecenter of the node, but well with in the area covered by the haet gun. It was a clean break straight across the strip. There was no splintering. Was this bad technique or a bad strip? Sounds to me like a bad strip, if you were bending only slightly. You'regoing to run across a few strips that are going to break. Don't worryabout it. Better to find the weak ones before you put a lot of workinto them. I tend to test my strips a lot as I work on them. I wouldrather have them break as strips or splines rather than as a rod. Darryl Hayashida from jfoster@gte.net Mon Jan 19 20:37:37 1998 Subject: Re:Veritus mac-creator="4D4F5353" Jon, George I've been using a Veritus Honing guide for a couple of years now and myfindings were more like Jon's. First, throw away the angle dangle littlegoodie and build a blade guide as George suggested. Secondly, it mightjust be my unit, but there is quite a bit of slop in the roller bushing.and the lip on the flange isn't particularly square with anything. ibuilt my guide so it squares , or parallels with the roller side twardthe guide, that takes the slop out and gives me a consistant angle.lastly, because of the direct rotary pressure when you secure the bladeyou have to be careful not to skew the setting with excessive torque. regards jerry from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Jan 19 20:39:53 1998 0000 Subject: Re: question?? Before you begin there are a couple of questions you need to anser foryourself. First does this rod have sentimental value, and if so how much? Second, does the rod really need refinishing or just a little cleaning andtouch up? Depending upon the anser to the first you might consider notdoing anything to the rod. Remember, you are not planing to fish the rodso all repairs will be for cosmetics only. All of the dirt,dried fishscales,and oil on the grip are from your Grandfather, not some stranger. Iask the second question because you want to replace the guides I assumewith new ones. Keep in mind the components on a 50 year old rod are nolonger made and if you are not careful you will end up with a pretty stick,but one which no longer has any connection to your Grandfather. I am nottrying to discourage you from your project, but I find when I ask myclients these questions the refinish/restoration project sometimes takesawhole new direction.GeorgeGreys River Rod Co. ----------From: Shane M. Hubbs Subject: question??Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 5:09 PM everyone, Due to the passing of my grandfather, I acquired an unmarked rod. Mygrandmothersuspected that the rod is about 40-50 years old but she is not sure ofthe make ormodel. The catch here is that the rod is made of some type of wood. Iwould liketo refinish the rod as well as replace the snake eyes. The ferrules alsoneedwork. I am not looking for any use out of the rod, but I would much liketo seeit refurbished. Any information that can be offered would be greatlyappreciated. Thank you, Shane M. Hubbs from shane.m.hubbs@vanderbilt.edu Mon Jan 19 20:55:31 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 19 Jan 1998 20:54:57 CST Subject: Re: question?? Well George, I fished alot with my grandfather and I think that he would like the rod tobein the best condition possible. If that means replacing any old componentswith new ones, then I think that I will move in that direction. If in thefuture I feel that the rod needs to be fished, then that's what I'll do. But Now,I need some info about what I can and can't do with that material (wood). Anysuggestions would help. Thanks, Shane Hubbs from lblan@provide.net Mon Jan 19 21:20:43 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Distinctions On a side note...every time I set my blade in the Veritas guide Isharpen a slightly different angle. Nor do I get a mirror finishlike Wayne talks about in his book. I am using a 1000/6000 waterstone and fell like I am getting the blade sharp. John; throw the guide away! It is all but impossible to return the blade tothe same setting. Make a guide that [1] sets the blade length, not the angle[2] holds the blade perpendicular to the surface the guide will be againstwhen you tighten it up. Wayne and Chris Bogart pointed this out to me inGrayrock last year. I was having so-so results sharpening. The blade was sharp.... it wouldshave hair, but I just knew it should have been sharper. I was at a loss toexplain it. The pattern on the blade changed as I moved from stone to stonealso... not a lot, but it was noticeable. I bought a diamond stone and the problem showed up almost at once. Mywaterstones were not flat, despite my efforts to keep them that way. They weredished a tiny bit. I used the diamond stone to "true" them and can get atrue mirror polish without spending an hour on the 6000 grit stone. I don'tknow if this might be happening to you, but it is worth a look. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 19 21:32:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: holding down strips during final planing Sharpen your plane.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Jan 19 22:02:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) Me too.Hank.P.S. I graduated from a telescopic steel fly rod to a Montague at age15 orso(it's been so long I can't remember)-anyway, I thought I'd died and gonetoheaven. $14.95 was a lot of money to me then . Then came fiberglass, thengraphite but cane has something all the rest don't-I can't put my finger onitbut it's there. Obviously Mr. Thompson feels the same way. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jan 19 22:21:04 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 19Jan 1998 23:22:43 -0500 Subject: Sting Damn those tiny cuts sting.....not a lot of blood, but jeez...That Smarts! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Jan 19 22:40:55 1998 Subject: Re: Rod finishing/Dipped? Bret, I have been spraying my cane rods for years. I use an air brush likethe ones they spray t-shirts with. Works out great for me. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from gord@teleport.com Mon Jan 19 22:57:26 1998 Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing FISHWOOL wrote: Sharpen your plane.Hank. I wore fingercots at first. I remember complaining about stripsslipping to my rodbuilding friend Andy years ago. He indicated that hedidn't wear cots, he did get cut on rare occasion, and that he'd savedmore than one strip by not wearing cots. You can feel them move afraction of an inch. If a strip slips your dimension erodes fairlyquickly - .001/1" I now wear gloves when it's really rough planing, cots when I'm stillHIGH, but straight fingers when I'm down there. If your within a fewthousands I think the fingertip is going to touch the form away from thestrip - just a guess - I haven't been cut in a long time. What Hanksays is certainly true too. Those last few thousands are taken in wispswith what should be the sharpest of planes. The pull isn't great. Pushdown hard - it hurts a bit but have you tried a banjo? We have it easy. Cheers,Gord from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jan 19 22:57:43 1998 Subject: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) Will everyone who uses an original stanley scraper plane, please raiseyour hand? Anyone? from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jan 19 23:01:24 1998 Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing Tony -Good advise. I always tend to plane one pass too many beforeheading back to the sharpening stones. Brian from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Jan 19 23:01:50 1998 Tue, 20 Jan 1998 13:01:15 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: A nodeless experience! On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Bopep wrote: Has anybody done nodeless on a longer (8'6") rod? Any reason not to? Hoffhines No reason at all, in fact you could make it one piece if you wanted. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Jan 19 23:06:04 1998 Subject: Re: Veritus Jerry -Sorry to hear about the slop in your unit. ;^) from jfoster@gte.net Mon Jan 19 23:41:50 1998 Subject: Re: Veritus mac-creator="4D4F5353" Brian It is an old unit, afterall jer from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 20 01:03:18 1998 Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing Just in case someone was interested in looking for the Stanley barclamp I use, I mis-wrote the name. They are called Stanley QuickGrip bar clamps. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 20 01:21:42 1998 Subject: Re: Straightening Strips - Flattening Nodes In a message dated 1/19/98 1:33:56 PM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: Darryl, I'm no electrician, in fact scared to death of the stuff, butcould you use two irons, face to face with the handles removed? in arather large vise? Seems like there should be a way. Hmmm...Interesting idea. You would have to fasten the irons on to the visejaws somehow, and this would probably work for straightening,but I think for pressing nodes you would need a smaller contactarea. Unless you just used the tip part of the iron, but then youcouldn't do several strips at once. I've never seen the insideof an iron. How does an iron heat?, and can it be adaptedto a vise jaw..... Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 20 01:40:14 1998 Subject: Rod Wax Last weekend I was at a chain hardware store we havein Southern California called Home Base - not to beconfused with Home Depot, another local chainhardware store - and I ran across a can of pastewax called Citrus- Shield. I read the ingredients,and carnuba wax was listed, along with orangeoil. On a whim I bought it. It was $11.95 for14 ounces, just a little expensive, but carnubawax products tend to be a little pricey. I tried it on my rods, and it works as well asthe mixture I made up from Wayne C's book,without having to round up the beeswax, carnubawax, lemon oil, melt the stuff in a double boilerand mix them all up. Just thought I would let you all know in caseyou didn't want to mix up your own rod wax. Oh yeah, the manufacturer is Howard Products(800) 266-9545 Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Jan 20 01:57:57 1998 Tue, 20 Jan 1998 15:57:41 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing On Mon, 19 Jan 1998, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Tony -Good advise. I always tend to plane one pass too many beforeheading back to the sharpening stones. Brian I keep the water stone on the bench with me and just keep using it as soon as I detect the spline is starting to slip. Sharpening isn't that big a deal. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Jan 20 07:24:22 1998 Subject: Re: Guide Placement Jon;Not to be vague,but your guide spacing will depend on the action andtaperdesignof the rod.The deeper the flex the closer to the butt your stripper shouldbe.Thelighter your tip the closer spacing your first few snakes should be.Etc. Ifyou havea specific taper in mind it be easier to make a specificrecommendation.Justremember it's not all rocket science.GEM from flyfisher@rhco.com Tue Jan 20 07:48:05 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Varnish I have also used McCloskey's spar varnish on two rods and the finishturned out very nice. I bought some Dutch Epifanes yesterday, perWayne C.'s suggestion, and plan to use it on my next rod. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: flyfisher@cmix.com [SMTP:flyfisher@cmix.com]Sent: Sunday, January 18, 1998 9:57 AM Subject: Varnish Rick, If you want to maintain the style of finish as found on these rods,I'dstick with spar varnish. Else use what you can find. I can't believeyoucan't find a spar varnish at some good old-fashion local hardwarestore. While there look for a small can of clear lacquer for wrap preserverusetoo. I presently use McCosky's spar varnish, just happen to have been abletopickup 2 gallons of pre-VOC law varnish when the local ACE hardwarestore closed up. The local OSH (hardware chain) carries this brandalso(new VOC stuff) and the local Home Depot has Helmsman Spar VarnishthatI think is without polyurethane. I've used ACE spar varnish in the past and found it to be less yellowthan the McCosky's brand and have had god results with it - mostly onHeddon, H-i and Montague restorations. I still have a small can that Iuse for wrap touch up jobs. Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Jan 20 08:39:19 1998 Subject: RE:question?? RO>everyone, RO>Due to the passing of my grandfather, I acquired an unmarked rod. MygrandmRO>suspected that the rod is about 40-50 years old but she is not sure ofthe mRO>model. The catch here is that the rod is made of some type of wood. IwoulRO>to refinish the rod as well as replace the snake eyes. The ferrules alsoneRO>work. I am not looking for any use out of the rod, but I would much liketoRO>it refurbished. Any information that can be offered would be greatlyapprec RO>Thank you, RO>Shane M. Hubbs Shane, Buy yourself a copy of Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbook" @ $25.00 (US$). Most of the information in this volume willdirectly relate to restoring a wood rod also. (it is a real wood rod andnot split bamboo?) You might also consider having the work done by a good restorer in yourarea of the country. Cost would depend upon the amount of work required- cost should start at about $150 to $200 - and might result in a muchbetter job than a 1st attempt by someone. Don Burns from EMiller257@aol.com Tue Jan 20 09:31:15 1998 Subject: Re: Unintended Experiment Chris, is this an indorsement for Titebond II ? Have you been using it asyourprimary adhesive? I would like to try nodeless sometime and if this stuffworks for you right out of the bottle it would greatly simplify the gluingofthe splices. Ed M. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Jan 20 10:24:16 1998 Subject: Re: Unintended Experiment RO>Chris, is this an indorsement for Titebond II ? Have you been using itas yoRO>primary adhesive? I would like to try nodeless sometime and if thisstuffRO>works for you right out of the bottle it would greatly simplify thegluing oRO>the splices. Ed M. Ed, I've used Titebond II for scarf repairs on broken tips and so far I'vebeen lucky with it. But I've never tried to scarf too close to a tipend, so far I've limited myself to ~0.900" or larger dia. I've alsofixed a few delaminations on restoration project rods too. I don't havemany years experience, so long- term problems? You do have to work fast - setup time isn't long. Have everything readybefore gluing. It is easy to find. (and cheap) IMHO, Don Burns PS - I use waxed dental floss to wrap my scarfs repairs - since itdoesn't get heated as in cane heat-treating. Pulls right off after theglue dries and again is cheap and easy to find. I think you could use iton nodeless splices too. from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Tue Jan 20 10:57:05 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: gripping strips Thanks for all of the helpful responses! They are much appreciated. Yes,myblades are sharp (of course, there is sharp and then there is SHARP!). Ihave tried (and still use) finger cots. I may have misstated myself inproblems with gripping the strips. It is usually when I go to the scraperplane that I have difficulty gripping the strips in the form. Perhaps Idon't know how to use a scraper plane? Perhaps I have it set upincorrectly? Jerry Snider from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Jan 20 11:13:52 1998 Subject: Re: Unintended Experiment (oops) RO>end, so far I've limited myself to ~0.900" or larger dia. Try making the above read 0.090" to make sense. SORRY about that! Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 20 12:17:39 1998 Subject: Re: gripping strips In a message dated 1/20/98 9:02:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,jerry.snider@UC.Edu writes: It is usually when I go to the scraperplane that I have difficulty gripping the strips in the form. Perhaps Idon't know how to use a scraper plane? Perhaps I have it set upincorrectly? That's when I used to have the most problems with strip slippage also. But I do use the clamp for planing too. I like the control of the plane I get with two hands guiding it. I don't use a glove or finger cots. Darryl Hayashida from frankc@webspan.net Tue Jan 20 14:41:49 1998 Subject: plane sole I have sanded a 5/8" wide slot down the middle of my hand plane. It is.003 deep but doean't seem to be effective. Should the dept of the slotbe greater. What do you fellows do with your hand planes? Frank from ghinde@inconnect.com Tue Jan 20 16:58:45 1998 0000 Subject: Re: question?? ShaneI would recommend that you start by getting a copy of M. Sinclair's book onrestoring cane rods. The information he gives will get you where you wantto go. The only other general advise I would add is PATIENCE and CARE TODETAIL, especially if you are trying to make the rod look like it didoriginally. Measure where EVERYTHING is! If the wrap on one side of aguide is 60 turns and the other side is 61 that is what should be on theguide when you are done. If you are just going to ,as you say, clean upthe rod and make it look nice the replcation of details are not asexacting. George----------From: Shane M. Hubbs Subject: Re: question??Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 7:59 PM Well George, I fished alot with my grandfather and I think that he would like the rodto bein the best condition possible. If that means replacing any oldcomponentswith new ones, then I think that I will move in that direction. If in thefuture I feel that the rod needs to be fished, then that's what I'll do.But Now,I need some info about what I can and can't do with that material (wood).Anysuggestions would help. Thanks, Shane Hubbs from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jan 20 17:24:00 1998 SAA10225; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:23:44 -0500 Subject: Re: A nodeless experience! A2DC0F9F042734A9983F8E58" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- A2DC0F9F042734A9983F8E58 My Big Dog 9' 6" was nodeless. Chris Bopep wrote: Has anybody done nodeless on a longer (8'6") rod? Any reason not to? Hoffhines --------------A2DC0F9F042734A9983F8E58 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------A2DC0F9F042734A9983F8E58-- from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jan 20 17:35:25 1998 Subject: Archives mac-creator="4D4F5353" Hi all,The following is an opinion and a request for input: Many new people get some of their education about the art and craft ofrodmaking off this List and may or may not take the time to read and indeed print-out parts of the archives. As a retread (used to make rods fromscratch), I took the time to read ALL of the archives in order to learnnewconcepts and try to refresh myself on subjects I thought I knew about. I put in some 12 to 18 hours reading the archives and wondered if itmightbe better to have some sort of ongoing compilation of the technicallyoriented posts to the List. The 10 days in Jan - Annotated Archive -wasthe first attempt to do this. Certainly other people have pondered this concept and may have rejected it for some reason or other. As a newperson, I can easily see the value in the Annotated as a placetofind needed info. As a person who has worked with volunteerorganizations information inherently involves some editing. Editing is mostlysubjectiveand might be seen as intrusive or at least generate "a pause forthought" onthe part of those who have invested years with the List. In doing theAnnotated, errors will probably occur, particularly by omission. And,how do you define an error? - again, it's subjective. Jerry Foster has generously provided space for the Annotated Archives onhisPage. Whether on not the Annotated continues or not depends to someextenton the wishes, understanding, and indeed advice from those who havedeveloped the List. I would greatly appreciate some words of wisdom,adviceor flames from ANYONE with an opinion about the Annotated. FINALLY . . . please contact me or Jerry - - - off list - - - Keep this discussion from further cluttering-up the List. Ted Godfrey: tedgodfreys@erols.com (410) 239 8468 I'll second that Jerry from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jan 20 17:49:54 1998 SAA15977; Tue, 20 Jan 1998 18:49:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Unintended Experiment D3F2EF9025F6D092B33E79F2" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- D3F2EF9025F6D092B33E79F2 Ed The only thing it says is that it is not as bad as some would make it. Forprimary adhesive for the splines I use Shell Epon. It gives you enough timeto glue, bind, and straighten. It also has about the same thermaldeflectiontemp (170 degrees) that Titebond-II has - so they complement each othervery well. I use Titebond-II for only for splices since it has a good gripandquicksetup. Chris EMiller257 wrote: Chris, is this an indorsement for Titebond II ? Have you been using it asyourprimary adhesive? I would like to try nodeless sometime and if thisstuffworks for you right out of the bottle it would greatly simplify the gluingofthe splices. Ed M. --------------D3F2EF9025F6D092B33E79F2 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------D3F2EF9025F6D092B33E79F2-- from RONGEY@aol.com Tue Jan 20 19:21:10 1998 Subject: Planing strips I have read the suggestions re: holding strips so they don't move when theyare planed. I have watched an experienced rodmaker several times. Hebeginsa strip at the butt end, with his left hand about 8-10 inches "upstream",thenas the plane is moved along the strip, he shuttles his left hand along aheadof the plane until he approaches the tip, at which point, he crosses hishands(left behind the right) and finishes the pass. The plane is set at .002-.003in. cutting depth. By not moving too briskly, he can control the plane withonly one hand. By using only one hand, he avoids pressing the strip toohard.If the plane should meet resistance, either at a node or because it needsharpening, etc., the strip will not buckle or possibly snap if you're toonear the tip! By not pressing tightly (it really requires very littledownward force), your fingers don't suffer cuts or become tender. Tolearnthe correct pressure to use requires a bit of practice, but soon it isintuitive. I've imitated his technique, and it is not at all difficult tomaster. And once learned, it should be much more convenient and efficientthan fiddling with clamps, etc. As to using a scraper plane, the technique is similar. It is designed to beused with the wooden knob on the palm of the hand. When the blade is settothe proper depth, only the finest of shavings is removed. The operation ismuch more delicate than planing. For reference in setup, see Wayne's text.Herecommends a three degree angle for the blade, which I approximate andfind tobe ideal. In reference to sharpening a blade and keeping the edge square, I havemade asharpening jig as directed in the instructions which are included with aHockblade. I have a palm-size piece of wood with parallel, straight edges. Ihave a stop block screwed to the top, 1-1/8" from the leading edge aperfectlyparallel to it. On the left of this block is a small piece of wood, securedat a right angle to the leading edge. When I set my Veritas on-the-stonehoning guide, I insure that the blade is tight against the left block, andadvanced to the depth of the stop. This insures a consistent 30 deg angleanda perfect right angle as well. I use a diamond hone for most of thesharpening operation, and then dress the blade with a waterstone. Thediamondstone is perfectly flat and does not dish out, This exposes the waterstoneonly to a flat edge, and I find that the waterstone needs only occasionaltouchup to keep it perfectly flat. A sharp plane, used delicately, is a fine instrument and it can be used tobring strips down to close tolerance with very little effort. When force isrequired or utilized, I usually find that I'm making a mistake or that theblade is dull. I like to freshen the edge so it is sharpest as am planing thefinal .005-.010 in. from a strip. That places the best edge available on thebamboo at the most critical time... Still learning, and enjoying every minute, Regards, Ken RongeyGrand Rapids Opener is only 3 1/2 months away from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 20 19:26:38 1998 Subject: Re: Unintended Experiment The only thing it says is that it is not as bad as some would make it. It sure gets soft at a lower temperature than epoxy. You can straightena blank a lot easier glued with Titebond II than with other glues I've tried. Darryl Hayashida from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Tue Jan 20 19:40:58 1998 ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Straightening Strips - Flattening Nodes Hmmm...Interesting idea. You would have to fasten the irons on to the visejaws somehow, and this would probably work for straightening,but I think for pressing nodes you would need a smaller contactarea. Unless you just used the tip part of the iron, but then youcouldn't do several strips at once. I've never seen the insideof an iron. How does an iron heat?, and can it be adaptedto a vise jaw..... You might try a couple of the Monicote irons. The model airplane guys usethem to cover their airplanes. The sole is about 4 inches long and theiron has a handle. Might be able to adapt it to the task. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from RONGEY@aol.com Tue Jan 20 20:21:10 1998 Subject: Re: Pressing nodes probably bad technique; to test the relaxation of the lignin when it isheatedrequires very little flexion movement. Ken Rongey from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jan 20 20:23:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re: (fwd) Bamboo/Flyfishing (fwd) I do.Hank. from harsha@aros.net Tue Jan 20 21:10:21 1998 Subject: South Bend 291 I have a chance to buy a South Bend #291. Does anyone have anyexperience with this rod and if so, what do you think of the rod andwhat would a good price be. The rod is supposed to be near mint. Thanks, Mike from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 21 02:16:22 1998 Subject: Re: plane sole In a message dated 1/20/98 12:44:37 PM Pacific Standard Time,frankc@webspan.net writes: I have sanded a 5/8" wide slot down the middle of my hand plane. It is..003 deep but doean't seem to be effective. Should the dept of the slotbe greater. What do you fellows do with your hand planes? What do you mean by "not effective"? Do you still nick your planingform or do you not get bamboo shavings? Either problem is remedied down in the latter. Darryl Hayashida from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Jan 21 02:54:40 1998 +0100 (CET) ; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 09:30:12 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Planing strips ----------From: RONGEY I have read the suggestions re: holding strips so they don't move whentheyare planed. I have watched an experienced rodmaker several times. Hebeginsa strip at the butt end, with his left hand about 8-10 inches "upstream",thenas the plane is moved along the strip, he shuttles his left hand alongaheadof the plane until he approaches the tip, at which point, he crosses hishands(left behind the right) and finishes the pass. The plane is set at.002-.003in. cutting depth. By not moving too briskly, he can control the planewithonly one hand. By using only one hand, he avoids pressing the strip toohard.If the plane should meet resistance, either at a node or because it needsharpening, etc., the strip will not buckle or possibly snap if you'retoonear the tip! By not pressing tightly (it really requires very littledownward force), your fingers don't suffer cuts or become tender. Tolearnthe correct pressure to use requires a bit of practice, but soon it isintuitive. I've imitated his technique, and it is not at all difficulttomaster. And once learned, it should be much more convenient andefficientthan fiddling with clamps, etc. In reference to sharpening a blade and keeping the edge square, I havemade asharpening jig as directed in the instructions which are included with aHockblade. Ken My technique for planing is a bit different. I dont go for convenience orefficiency (no flaming intended) but for control of the process. I freelyadmit that controlling a pound or more of Stanley 9 1/2 with one hand,when tilting, is beyond my abilities. In order to achieve the famous 60degress angle all through my planing, both hands are needed to control theplane. As previously discribed by other rodmakers on this list, I use aClamp and any piece of veneer to keep the strips steady. So I am fiddlingbut since I dont do this thing for a living, time is not that important. Hock blades not being available in this country (Denmark) the instructions drawings and forwarding through the list? Perhaps have it published ontheRodmakers? Ofcourse You have to ask Hock, but they probably would notmindsome free advertizng. Best regards Carsten from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Jan 21 07:50:20 1998 ix12.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: plane sole Frank, I have the same size and depth slot made the same way you did. Ihave no trouble with my plane. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com I have sanded a 5/8" wide slot down the middle of my hand plane. It is.003 deep but doean't seem to be effective. Should the dept of the slotbe greater. What do you fellows do with your hand planes? Frank from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Jan 21 07:53:02 1998 Subject: Re: plane sole At 15:42 20/01/98 -0500, you wrote:I have sanded a 5/8" wide slot down the middle of my hand plane. It is.003 deep but doean't seem to be effective. Should the dept of the slotbe greater. What do you fellows do with your hand planes? Frank Frank, Give John Bokstrom a shout @ . He's used the planegrove system for about 8 years or so and may be able to shed so light onthe problem. Don Andersen from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jan 21 08:26:16 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Rod finishing/Dipped? Hank,I have been spraying rods for about 5 years I just wondered if any1 elsewasand if this was an accepted practice. My set-up works fine and i don't getdust in the finish very often.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jan 21 08:35:33 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Wax What about plain old butchers wax?Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jan 21 08:48:55 1998 Subject: So.Bend#290 Does any1 have the tapers for a 7 1/2 ft South Bend. Tips only. I have onethat was my dads and the tips are both 4 in short. Damn Studebaker door.Bret P.S. I guess Josie got us all. (lang) from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Jan 21 09:15:18 1998 SVR4) Subject: Plane weights I increasingly find that I use the small Lie-Nielsen lock plane in preference to the Record 9 1/2. The former is much lighter, allowing one hand planing and, for whatever reason, the blade keeps an edge far longer than the Hock blade in the 9 1/2 - both identically sharpened to mirror finish on 1000/6000 waterstones. BTW, my L-N is the one without the adjustable foot. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Jan 21 09:16:13 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: impregnation recipes I followed the thread some time ago about impregnation, and have looked suggestions being posted at that time. I have no interest in thesubject since I just finished my dip tube setup which works well, but afriend with no internet access asked me to query you folks.Specifically, do any of you have a formula you would be willing toshare? He wants to try it, and needs some guidance. He's infatuatedwith Orvis, and wants to build a pseudo-Orvis.Since we followed this thread sometime recently, if you don't wanttotie up bandwidth, please contact me off-list.Thanks,Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Wed Jan 21 09:27:49 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed,21 Jan 1998 09:29:13 CST Subject: Epon? Chris, Shell Epon? Is that the same stuff that electron microscopists use to embed specimens for thin sectioning? Does it come in a four bottle kit with Epon 812 resin, DDSA (long, forgettable chemical nomenclature abbreviated), NMA and BDMA? I buy such a kit every year at work and the chemicals always expire before they are depleted. Do you find that it has significant advantages over Tightbond II other than longer setup time for binding and straightening glued splines?- Grayson from stpete@netten.net Wed Jan 21 09:49:12 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id KAA26894 for; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 10:01:10 -0600 Subject: Re: So.Bend#290 - advice on taking tapers Grhghlndr wrote: Does any1 have the tapers for a 7 1/2 ft South Bend. Tips only. I haveonethat was my dads and the tips are both 4 in short. Damn Studebaker door.Bret P.S. I guess Josie got us all. (lang) G., I talked my fishing partner into buying a 290. It was a good deal andhe didn't own a cane rod. He babies it though, won't fish it veryoften. I'll try to get ahold of it this weekend and get the entiretaper. One problem - this is my first time at taking a taper. Any suggestionswhich will aid in taking accurate taper readings? Estimating varnishthickness, etc. The SB 290 is original, but I have a nice Heddon and aPhillipson which I could provide tapers on as well. They have beenrefinished though. Rick from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 21 10:43:41 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Wax In a message dated 1/21/98 6:41:50 AM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.comwrites: What about plain old butchers wax? I don't know what Butchers wax has in it, but the best wax I've foundso far is carnuba wax. Problem with carnuba is by itself it's too hardto apply, so you have to mix it with a softer wax such as beeswax.The orange or lemon oil helps in cleaning the rod when you apply the wax, and to make it smell nicer. Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Jan 21 10:48:42 1998 Subject: The Monday Morning Special Guys, A word of caution about the Lee-Neilson scraper: Ordered the scraper several months after it debut some years ago. When it arrived, I unpacked it, sharpened the iron and attempted to set theblade square to the sole - didn't happen - the casting was too small toallow the blade to mount straight. Took about 4 hours to get the castinghollowed out so the blade sat straight. The blade adjustment screws are forever working loose so I built to thinrubber gaskets and installed them on each side of the screw nuts - solvedthat problem. Then last week, while scraping the enamel off a strip the scraper gotharder and harder to push. This time the blade adjustment screw hadbrokenwhere the pin anchors it. And its no wonder - if you examine the amount tomaterial that's left in a "all thread" bolt after drilling a 1/8" hole, youwill understand why it broke. Replaced the brass "all thread" bolt with asteel bolt and left the pin attachment area without threads to strengthenthis area. Also had to hollow out the casting where the new bolt attachsasI left some more meat in the pin area head. What's next!!! Would send the thing back if I didn't live in Canada with the problems ofcross border returns. Anyone else enjoying your Monday Morning Special? Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Jan 21 10:48:44 1998 Subject: Re: impregnation recipes At 09:15 21/01/98 -0600, you wrote:I followed the thread some time ago about impregnation, and have looked suggestions being posted at that time. I have no interest in thesubject since I just finished my dip tube setup which works well, but afriend with no internet access asked me to query you folks.Specifically, do any of you have a formula you would be willing toshare? He wants to try it, and needs some guidance. He's infatuatedwith Orvis, and wants to build a pseudo-Orvis.Since we followed this thread sometime recently, if you don't wanttotie up bandwidth, please contact me off-list.Thanks,Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com Harry, There was at least one article in the Planning form about impreg. +apparently in the Wes Jordan - Profile of a Rodmaker book from CentennialPublication there is the Orvis's original patent. Centennial Publication ispart of Classic Anglers.The phone number to order the book is 970-243-8780.Check out Classic Anglers home page too. Lotsa interesting stuff. regards, Don from flyfisher@rhco.com Wed Jan 21 11:29:18 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Rod Wax I use a powedered carnauba wax from a local hardware store. I mix itwith a lemon oil furniture polish in the microwave like in Wayne's bookwith the bee's wax. I tried the blocks of carnauba, and even bee's wax,and found the powdered form to work great. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 11:20 AM Subject: Re: Rod Wax I don't know what Butchers wax has in it, but the best wax I've foundso far is carnuba wax. Problem with carnuba is by itself it's too hardto apply, so you have to mix it with a softer wax such as beeswax.The orange or lemon oil helps in cleaning the rod when you apply the wax, and to make it smell nicer. Darryl Hayashida from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Wed Jan 21 11:38:56 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 21 Jan 1998 12:38:22 -0500 Subject: Re: holding down strips during final planing Jerry Snider wrote: Couldn't find much in the archives, so thought I would risk asking. How inthe world do you folks hold down the bamboo strip in the planing formduring those last few thousands of an inch being planed? I have triedWayne's Pink Pearl eraser to no avail, even went to art gum erasers (farbetter, IMO, but still don't do the job easily).I get so aggravated I want to SPIT! Have thought about trying Play Dough,super glue (just kidding!). Am on my third rod and this seems to be theunsolvable problem. What variety of techniques do you folks use??Jerry Snider I haven't tried it, but you left out tying silly putty! from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Wed Jan 21 13:01:22 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 256 0600 Subject: Re: Plane weights I found this evaluation (below) of the blades very interesting. I ampreparing to purchase a plane and, as I think it will be a once per lifetimepurchase, I want to make the correct(best?) choice. Does anyone else haveexperience with both types of planes and/or blades? Thanks Jim Kubichek Thomas Pindelski wrote: I increasingly find that I use the small Lie-Nielsen lock plane inpreference to the Record 9 1/2. The former is much lighter, allowingonehand planing and, for whatever reason, the blade keeps an edge far longerthan the Hock blade in the 9 1/2 - both identically sharpened to mirrorfinish on 1000/6000 waterstones. BTW, my L-N is the one without the adjustable foot. from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Jan 21 15:10:45 1998 Subject: Re: The Monday Morning Special In a message dated 1/21/98 8:54:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca writes: When it arrived, I unpacked it, sharpened the iron and attempted to settheblade square to the sole - didn't happen - the casting was too small toallow the blade to mount straight. Took about 4 hours to get the castinghollowed out so the blade sat straight. The blade adjustment screws are forever working loose so I built tothinrubber gaskets and installed them on each side of the screw nuts - solvedthat problem. Are you sure this is a L-N scraper? Doesn't sound anything like mine.Mine worked right out of the box, and hasn't given me a bit of troublein two years. Darryl Hayashida from sats@gte.net Wed Jan 21 15:16:01 1998 Subject: Re: Unintended Experiment (oops) RO>end, so far I've limited myself to ~0.900" or larger dia. Try making the above read 0.090" to make sense. SORRY about that! Don, I knew what you meant. (Not to sure what that says about MY ability to work down to the .001) Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Wed Jan 21 16:25:20 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed,21 Jan 1998 16:26:45 CST Subject: Re: monday morn etc. My first LN scraper had the blade not perpendicular to the side. I sent itback and got a replacement which works well. - Grayson from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jan 21 16:56:13 1998 RAA03806; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:56:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon? C33B6D6E3FE0A231E210F230" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- C33B6D6E3FE0A231E210F230 Grayson No this is another mix with 828 resin and v-40 (3140) hardner. Look atthe Rodmakers homepage and we have put the spec sheets from Shellthere.It is a 2 part 1:1 mix - has about a 4 hour gell time and dries to a niceambercolor. Chris GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU wrote: Chris,Shell Epon? Is that the same stuff that electron microscopists use toembed specimens for thin sectioning? Does it come in a four bottle kitwith Epon 812 resin, DDSA (long, forgettable chemical nomenclatureabbreviated), NMA and BDMA? I buy such a kit every year at workand the chemicals always expire before they are depleted. Do youfind that it has significant advantages over Tightbond II other thanlonger setup time for binding and straightening glued splines?- Grayson --------------C33B6D6E3FE0A231E210F230 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------C33B6D6E3FE0A231E210F230-- from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jan 21 16:58:53 1998 RAA04389; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 17:58:49 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon? DBAE7D61F84F2176F6D3519C" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- DBAE7D61F84F2176F6D3519C Grayson I hit send before I answered the rest of your questions. This stuff has an indef shelf life - Bill Fink is using stuff at least10years old.The advantage is the long working time - invaluable in straightening.It is very infrequently that I have to do any straightening at all on a rod. Chris GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU wrote: Chris,Shell Epon? Is that the same stuff that electron microscopists use toembed specimens for thin sectioning? Does it come in a four bottle kitwith Epon 812 resin, DDSA (long, forgettable chemical nomenclatureabbreviated), NMA and BDMA? I buy such a kit every year at workand the chemicals always expire before they are depleted. Do youfind that it has significant advantages over Tightbond II other thanlonger setup time for binding and straightening glued splines?- Grayson --------------DBAE7D61F84F2176F6D3519C begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------DBAE7D61F84F2176F6D3519C-- from jfoster@gte.net Wed Jan 21 17:31:48 1998 Subject: Re: Planing strips mac-creator="4D4F5353" Carsten Hock has his documentation on line, either link through the archivehomepage or hock's url directly. If I remember correctly he has a pageon sharpening notes that include the directions on making a jig, and alot of other good stuff. good searching Jerry from fiveside@net-gate.com Wed Jan 21 18:09:06 1998 TAA27835 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 19:09:03 Subject: Ferrules Hi Hank,You seem to have an uncomfortable feel about ferrules as I do. When youconsider all the analysis that has gone into all other aspects of this hobbyit makes you wonder. Serrate it, put a guide at the female end and forgetit. Surely there are stress concentrations and dead spots at ferrules whichare probably not the same as a C. Hinge. That's where some breakageoccurs.The problem is worse in fiveside and quads. I just hate to remove thosenicepower fibers to fit ferrules. Maybe beefing them up is the answer but itcan be ugly and what does it do to our carefully designed tapers? Iloveone-piecers. Bill from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Jan 21 18:47:22 1998 0500 Subject: Re: So.Bend#290 I have a 290 that I'll put the mic. to this eve and post before I go tobed.It's a sweet casting rod. Mine wants a 6 wt dt., don't know if theymade different wts. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Jan 21 18:54:46 1998 0500 Subject: Re: scrapers Hiya -I bought one of the small brass and rosewood scrapers from GarretWade and I'm in love. (I'm a tool Ho', so what.)I use it for the final couple of thousandths and find that thecontrol and lack of scraped steel are just wonderful. I think it onlycost thirtysomebucks. Has an adjustable angle and nice fit and finish.Still had to finish making it by sanding the sole with 400 grit. Brian "I'm just in this for the toys" Creek from channer@frontier.net Wed Jan 21 19:06:46 1998 Subject: Epon Chris;Please tell me where to order Epon. I have about a quart of Urac left and Ijust got some ammonium chloride, which seems to work very well BTW,but Iwould like to try something with a longer open time.I'm getting tired ofhaving to straighten blanks with the heat gun and running the risk ofburning them.I even tried the boiler plate method in the Planing Form to noavail.Thanks John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jan 21 19:30:11 1998 Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:30:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: The Monday Morning Special On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Don Andersen wrote:A word of caution about the Lee- Neilson scraper:Ordered the scraper several months after it debut some years ago.When it arrived, I unpacked it, sharpened the iron and attempted to settheblade square to the sole - didn't happen - the casting was too small toallow the blade to mount straight. Took about 4 hours to get the castinghollowed out so the blade sat straight.The blade adjustment screws are forever working loose so I built to thinrubber gaskets and installed them on each side of the screw nuts -solvedthat problem.Then last week, while scraping the enamel off a strip the scraper gotharder and harder to push. This time the blade adjustment screw hadbrokenwhere the pin anchors it. And its no wonder - if you examine the amounttomaterial that's left in a "all thread" bolt after drilling a 1/8" hole, youwill understand why it broke. Replaced the brass "all thread" bolt with asteel bolt and left the pin attachment area without threads tostrengthenthis area. Also had to hollow out the casting where the new bolt attachsasI left some more meat in the pin area head. Don That's a distressing thing to read. I bought mine about 8 months back and have given it a real work out as it's great for not only finishing splines but also finishing veneers for laminations but I haven't had any problems at all.Be a drag if anything happened 'cause it's even harder to return things from out here. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Jan 21 19:38:04 1998 0500 Subject: Re: So.Bend#290 Bret -Remember this don't cost nothin', and you get no guarantees. 7'6" South Bend 290Blonde, (NOT Flamed) with orange (?) and black jasper thread Aluminum and Bakelite uplocking reelseat9" Comficient grip w/ Wes Jordan- type GrooveBrass hex winding check (0.25" long)ns ring hook keeperGuides at tip. 7", 14", 21.5", 29.5", 39", and stripper at 54" Took this through what I take to be good, original varnish. Averaged 3flat to flat measurements. The butt section was not consistent on size(sometimes off by 0.01 !), but nowhere on the tip (only got one) werethe deminsions off by more than .002 - .003"! It casts great with a SAultra 3 dt 6. Better with a DT 6 silk Reed had at Grayling. A trulynice fishing rod. 2" .0955" .10810" .12015" .13620" .15025" .16230" .17035" .19640" .21545" ferrule50" .22755" .24760" .26765" .28770" .30275" .33080" .375butt Hope this is of some help. Can't even guess what to subtract for thefinish. Brian from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Jan 21 19:41:46 1998 Thu, 22 Jan 1998 09:41:38 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Epon? The working time is very long, in fact the first time I used it the room temp was 39 deg cent and I thought I'd either forgotten the hardener(!) or not used enough as it was still workable a few hrs after I applied it.It's good stuff, try it.I will be replacing 15 frames in my boat over the next two days and rather than steam bend them in situ these were laminated on the lofting floor using American White Oak and Shell Epon so I'll let the list know if there are any failures but I don't expect any. Tony On Wed, 21 Jan 1998, Chris Bogart wrote: Grayson I hit send before I answered the rest of your questions. This stuff has an indef shelf life - Bill Fink is using stuff at least10years old.The advantage is the long working time - invaluable in straightening.It is very infrequently that I have to do any straightening at all on a rod. Chris GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU wrote: Chris,Shell Epon? Is that the same stuff that electron microscopists use toembed specimens for thin sectioning? Does it come in a four bottlekitwith Epon 812 resin, DDSA (long, forgettable chemical nomenclatureabbreviated), NMA and BDMA? I buy such a kit every year at workand the chemicals always expire before they are depleted. Do youfind that it has significant advantages over Tightbond II other thanlonger setup time for binding and straightening glued splines?- Grayson /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Jan 21 19:44:35 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 21Jan 1998 20:46:35 -0500 Subject: Scraping Alts... I was wondering if anyone out there was not scraping the strips before gluing? If so...what is your last step? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Jan 21 19:47:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: So.Bend#290 Brian,Even with the broken tips it still casts a DT 6 real nice.Bret from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jan 21 19:52:33 1998 UAA11437; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 20:52:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon D4778C4A8E9EBEE5C51CA6EB" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- D4778C4A8E9EBEE5C51CA6EB John We have put all the info on the Rodmakers Homepage - thanks to JerryPhone nrs and everything is there. Chris john channer wrote: Chris;Please tell me where to order Epon. I have about a quart of Urac left andIjust got some ammonium chloride, which seems to work very well BTW,but Iwould like to try something with a longer open time.I'm getting tired ofhaving to straighten blanks with the heat gun and running the risk ofburning them.I even tried the boiler plate method in the Planing Form tonoavail.ThanksJohn Channer --------------D4778C4A8E9EBEE5C51CA6EB begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------D4778C4A8E9EBEE5C51CA6EB-- from dryfly@erols.com Wed Jan 21 20:06:54 1998 0500 Subject: Pony Clamps Chris Bogart I have read your FAQs on nodeless construction and was wondering thesource of the Pony clamps. Checked a few places but no luck. Also does it make a difference if you heat treat before or after splitting? ThanksBob from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Jan 21 20:20:48 1998 VAA17361; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:20:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Pony Clamps 21BDAB095E111775F29BB3ED" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 21BDAB095E111775F29BB3ED Bob 1" spring clamps I get from Mail Order. New Mexico Woodworkers. Also,Trend-lines (800-767-9999 have an off brand for about $8.95 a dozen(part #SC12)Heat treat before splitting - the sections will then split easily. I justfinished a rodwhere I need 4 tip sections and split out 32 strips easily from eachsection. Chris Robert S Williams wrote: Chris Bogart I have read your FAQs on nodeless construction and was wondering thesourceof the Pony clamps. Checked a few places but no luck. Also does it makeadifference if you heat treat before or after splitting? ThanksBob --------------21BDAB095E111775F29BB3ED begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------21BDAB095E111775F29BB3ED-- from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Wed Jan 21 20:22:56 1998 VAA04891 for ; Wed, 21 Jan 1998 21:22:44-0500 Subject: test test from KDLoup@aol.com Wed Jan 21 21:19:33 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Distinctions Jon, I have been using the Veritas holder with good results. I use a Kingcombination water stone for the initial sharpening then I switch to 1500and2000 grit sandpaper. I tape the sandpaper to a piece of plate glass. Thiswill place a mirror finish on the edge and back of the iron. I never couldachieve a mirror finish with the stone alone. A tip that I picked up fromFine Woodworking that has helped sharpening is to flatten the waterstoneaftera few uses. I didn't realize how bad my stone had gotten. I use a sandingscreen (220 grit) that I tape to the top of my tablesaw or piece of plateglass. Sandpaper would also work, but the screen does not clog withremovedabrasive as fast as the sandpaper. When the stone was flat, I could notbelieve how much faster it would hone the iron. Hope this helps. Kurt Loup from CALucker@aol.com Wed Jan 21 22:10:37 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Alts... Although I mostly mill my strips nowadays, I never used a scraper evenwhenhand-planing. Since my first rod I have been using a Stanley spokeshaveblade(about the size of a Triscut Cracker) instead of a scraper. I am luckyenoughto have found a real Stanley 212 in my Grandfather's boathouse workshop,butnever use it. I aggressively drag the spokeshave accross a coarse stonethereby creating a good hook on the blade edge. I drag the blade with theflat side of the blade toward the direction I am dragging. I use this blade(these baldes actually as I have a stack of them) for removing the enamel.And if hand-planing a rod I use the spokeshave blade for carefullysmoothingtough nodes and fixing snags, and doing the final three thou of a strip.Again, I am dragging these blades -- not pushing.The blades are about three dollars and take three swipes on a stone tocreatea hook. They have a great advantage over a Sandvik scraper in that theydonot flex so that you can muscle a third of a thou if you want. They alsoworkgreat for cutting the strings when you are binding/gluing. And, they tastegreat with cheddar cheese. You can'y say that about a 212. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 22 00:17:05 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA24983;Thu, 22 Jan 1998 06:16:32 +0000 "IPM Return requested" Subject: Re: First Rod I would (also) recommend fiberglass, about 7-1/2' 5wt. Glass is slowerthan graphite (and cheaper),very easy to learn to cast. 7-1/2' to have the kid fishing a "long" rod(for a 7 yr old kid) to help keepthe line a little farther away from him (he might get turned off if he getshooked) and also give him a little more reach. Get him some 7-1/2' 4X leaders, some size 12 or 14poppers and let him practiceon a small lake with bluegills when they are spawning. No matter whathispresentation, he'll have some(or much) success, get to see the fish rise, and have some fun rather thanplaying a waiting game --if he is anything like my children at that age, he won't be too patient --without some fun action, he'llget bored. I still think that it is a good idea to teach him to treat therod like a valued possession andhe's more apt to do so if he finds he has a lot of fun with it. BTW--I chose the "heavier" 5 wt line as more general purpose and easiertocast for a beginner andthe shorter 7-1/2' leaders as easier to turn over (and the bluegills won'tmind at all). Also, if the poppershave rubber legs, clip them off so he won't get frustrated trying to hookfish that are chewing on rubberbands. Have fun,George Bourke ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________ My best friend has three kids. The two oldest are girls and lovehorses but not fishing. The youngest(7) is a boy who loves soccer and computersbut just recently expressed a desire to go fly fishing. His birthday isin six -snip-I can't build a rod for him in time for his birthday,. but he canstarton his Mom's 8 1/2', 5wt. I can build a rod for him in time for the fishing later this spring/summer..So.. what would you build???Graphite or Bamboo?? Dennis (thinking of a7'9",5 wt.) Higham from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 22 00:29:37 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA5231 +0000 Subject: Re: question?? You really should post a description of the rod on this list...should therod be a Payneor a Gillum or a Halstead (or any number of other highly respectedmakers)...you maywish to rethink making it a first do-it-yourself project! George Bourke ----------From: Shane M. Hubbs Subject: question??Date: Monday, January 19, 1998 4:09 PM everyone, Due to the passing of my grandfather, I acquired an unmarked rod. Mygrandmothersuspected that the rod is about 40-50 years old but she is not sure ofthe make ormodel. The catch here is that the rod is made of some type of wood. Iwould liketo refinish the rod as well as replace the snake eyes. The ferrules alsoneedwork. I am not looking for any use out of the rod, but I would much liketo seeit refurbished. Any information that can be offered would be greatlyappreciated. Thank you, Shane M. Hubbs from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 22 00:48:24 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA15839 +0000 Subject: Re: impregnation recipes I seem to recall reading somewhere that it is a phenolic resin. You mightusea search engine to check out the web for phenolic resins. George Bourke ----------From: Harry Boyd Subject: impregnation recipesDate: Wednesday, January 21, 1998 7:15 AM I followed the thread some time ago about impregnation, and have looked suggestions being posted at that time. I have no interest in thesubject since I just finished my dip tube setup which works well, but afriend with no internet access asked me to query you folks.Specifically, do any of you have a formula you would be willing toshare? He wants to try it, and needs some guidance. He's infatuatedwith Orvis, and wants to build a pseudo-Orvis.Since we followed this thread sometime recently, if you don't wanttotie up bandwidth, please contact me off-list.Thanks,Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com from channer@frontier.net Thu Jan 22 01:39:16 1998 Subject: Epon Chris;Thanks.I might have known it was there if I'ld look at something besidesthe archives once in a while, I'll check it out.John Channer from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Jan 22 06:03:36 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Alts... Sandpaper with a sanding blockGEM from vjwilson@micron.net Thu Jan 22 06:27:35 1998 Subject: need rod id in idaho BA17C5C1A231AE6435A7D1CB" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- BA17C5C1A231AE6435A7D1CB folks, could anyone here help with identifying a rod irecently acquired? been mainly a 'lurker' on this service am thankful for such a source of expertise.follows is a description i sent to michael sinclair. greatguy -- he sent back that he thought it was British(hardy/farlow? possibly -- it does have British typeguides).thanks in advance,leonard wilsonwilder, idaho --------------BA17C5C1A231AE6435A7D1CB from - Thu Jan 22 05:23:27 1998 Subject: Re: help? Caneclinic wrote: Hi - Could not read the attachments - I'm on a Mac, that's probably why.Would beglad to help if I can. Can you send Jpeg or GIF? - Michael michael, i grabbed those images off the web site of the guy who sold methatrod, and have to admit i'm not computer literate enough to change theirformat(if that's possible).so here's a description as i hold this thing in front of me. i pretty muchexpect you to just say "huh", 'cuz it may have just been made by someobscuremaker or friend of this guy who's name is on it. do appreciate any feedback. story is the guy i bought this from got it in an estate deal from this guy'swidow. he was a doctor in lewiston, id. the rod is 8' 2/1 for a 6 (appearstohave only come with one tip since the very nice heavy poplin bag is only 2compartment), looks to be impregnated, has an oil finish not varnish. dlscrewlock reel seat - black bakelite squared off heavy threads with a possiblywalnut knob like butt plug - reel foot holders (?) appear to be knurledaluminum. grip is full wells. wraps are a golden brown tipped black andstripper guide (which is quite close to the grip) has an amber insert ofsomesort. ferrules are very nice n/s with a ferrule plug that's cork with a neatsilver tear drop knob on it.now for the cool stuff: above the grip and printed (in black) on the flats is"8' Special G/P." then "R.W. Eastwood, M.D." then "#6." then "1973." thesewereprinted on successive flats. further up and printed spiraled around theblankis "St,(but could be 8f or 8t) Leonard, Regd, G/B." well that's it, was just wondering. the thing casts very nicely. thanks again,leonard (in what's now become snowy, wet, yucky s.w. idaho) --------------BA17C5C1A231AE6435A7D1CB-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Jan 22 07:56:21 1998 Subject: Re: The Monday Morning Special At 15:35 21/01/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 1/21/98 8:54:53 AM Pacific Standard Time,dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca writes: When it arrived, I unpacked it, sharpened the iron and attempted to settheblade square to the sole - didn't happen - the casting was too small toallow the blade to mount straight. Took about 4 hours to get thecastinghollowed out so the blade sat straight. The blade adjustment screws are forever working loose so I built tothinrubber gaskets and installed them on each side of the screw nuts - solvedthat problem. Are you sure this is a L-N scraper? Doesn't sound anything like mine.Mine worked right out of the box, and hasn't given me a bit of troublein two years. Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Yup - she's a Lee-Neilson scraper. Hope the rest of their products arebetter than this thing. don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Jan 22 07:56:24 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Alts... At 20:45 21/01/98 +0000, you wrote:I was wondering if anyone out there was not scraping the strips before gluing? If so...what is your last step? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 Jon, Planning Don from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Thu Jan 22 08:49:03 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, Please tell me where to order Epon. I have about a quart of Urac left andIjust got some ammonium chloride, which seems to work very well BTW,but Iwould like to try something with a longer open time.I'm getting tired ofhaving to straighten blanks with the heat gun and running the risk ofburning them.I even tried the boiler plate method in the Planing Form tonoavail.ThanksJohn Channer John, with Chris' abundance of help re the use of Epon, I finally orderedone qt. of each from the Chicago office of Stephenson Chemical Co. TheyDIDaccept the use of a credit card (with a 3% surcharge), and I received theshipment two days after I called it in. They were rather adamant aboutwhere to ship the billing copy, so I simply used my University officeaddress. As Chris says, it comes with a VOLUME of safety/environmentalwarnings. from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Jan 22 09:35:24 1998 SVR4) Subject: Waterstones I have had good results using the Veritas Stone Pond - it holds two stones and comes with a glass plate and carbide grit - the latter used for periodical flattening of the stones. The stones are kept suspended in the water and always ready to go. About $30 or so. I keep a 1000 and 6000 stone permanently mounted. Add some Palmoliveliquid to the water to prevent mold. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Jan 22 09:41:33 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 22Jan 1998 10:43:28 -0500 Subject: Epon Just for everyone's info. I used the stuff for the first time last night on a butt section. I love it. It had a long working time...enough for me to figure out how to work my binder. I am curious how long I should let it sit before taking the strips off and sand. The section is about as straight as I can get it. Otherwise I know about straightening after 16 hours. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 22 10:36:06 1998 Subject: Re: The Monday Morning Special In a message dated 1/22/98 5:58:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca writes: Are you sure this is a L-N scraper? Doesn't sound anything like mine.Mine worked right out of the box, and hasn't given me a bit of troublein two years.Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Yup - she's a Lee-Neilson scraper. Hope the rest of their products arebetter than this thing. It was more than just the level of fit and finish. Your description of thescraper didn't fit what my scraper looks like. For instance, I can't figureout what you mean by the two adjustment screws that you had to puto-rings on. My scraper adjusts with a single threaded post and twolock nuts. The way my blade is held in the scraper is a lever typeof arrangement using one tensioning thumb screw as is very robust. Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Jan 22 11:53:45 1998 Subject: Re: The Monday Morning Special At 11:21 22/01/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 1/22/98 5:58:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca writes: Are you sure this is a L-N scraper? Doesn't sound anything like mine.Mine worked right out of the box, and hasn't given me a bit of troublein two years.Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Yup - she's a Lee-Neilson scraper. Hope the rest of their products arebetter than this thing. It was more than just the level of fit and finish. Your description of thescraper didn't fit what my scraper looks like. For instance, I can't figureout what you mean by the two adjustment screws that you had to puto-rings on. My scraper adjusts with a single threaded post and twolock nuts. The way my blade is held in the scraper is a lever typeof arrangement using one tensioning thumb screw as is very robust. Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Gee, I sorry you're a skeptic so here goes a complete description: - brass body- wooden knob about 1 1/4" OD - my knob is brown- brass frog c/w screw to lock in the blade- 2 blade angle adjustment locking nuts both brass- big sign on the nose end saying Lee-Neilson on 2 lines- and oh a another sign in the "back" end saying made in the USA And if it wasn't such a pain getting stuff back over the border, I wouldhave sent it back c/w the required drawings of how to do it right.Pleased that you're getting good service out of your tool. Perhaps you justhaven't used it enough to make the design failings apparent. regards, Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Jan 22 12:18:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: So.Bend#290 Brian,thanks I think this will do it will let you know of outcome.Bret from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Thu Jan 22 12:22:36 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 285 0600 Subject: English Cabinet Scraper ? I need a scraper and was wondering if anyone has tried the very thinmetal English made scrapers. They are very thin, rectangular and allmetal. They are usually called cabinet scrapers. Seem very affordableat about $5.00. Will these work for the final finish work? Thanks. Jim Kubichek from brown.mark@usa.net Thu Jan 22 12:37:04 1998 0000 Subject: Newbie staring at 12 foot culms Hello all,I have been playing around with some junky garden centre cane and I havejust received my first batch of proper culms. They were part of anoriginal bundled order so they are nicely aged and beautiful to behold12 foot length culms. I have cut the worst one (still looks really good)up for nodeless rods and I am thinking out the layout for the other rodsI hope to build. All of the info I have gleaned so far is from this list and a few websites, Copies of Garrison and Cattenach are on their way. In the meantime, does anyone have any tips for getting the most out of full-lengthculms? Is it worthwhile trying to get as many splits out of the 12 footculm before bucking section lengths out of the strips? a)get higher weight line, butt and mid sections from lower in the culmb) get lower weight line and tip sections from higher in the culmc) try to get splines that will be on opposite faces of the rod fromopposite faces of the culmd) try to stagger nodes as much as possible with 11/2" to 2" as a roughminimum I realise that bamboo is really cheap but these culms look usable fromend to end and I would like to minimise wastage. Any advise would bevery much appreciated.Thanks!Mark Brownin Calgary from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Jan 22 13:31:32 1998 0000 Subject: Re: English Cabinet Scraper ? Thats what I use when I'm about finished with each strip. I draw thenarrowend of the scraper along the planning form from tip to base until no morefine shavings appear. You will also need a burnishing tool to dress thescraper. Tom---------- Subject: English Cabinet Scraper ? Will these work for the final finish work? from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Jan 22 14:12:39 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id UAA23922 for; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:34:49 GMT Subject: Re: Ferrules Bill Fink wrote: Hi Hank,You seem to have an uncomfortable feel about ferrules as I do. When youconsider all the analysis that has gone into all other aspects of thishobbyit makes you wonder. I just hate to remove those nicepower fibers to fit ferrules. Maybe beefing them up is the answer but itcan be ugly and what does it do to our carefully designed tapers? I loveone-piecers. Bill I have not had to remove any power fibers from a blank since I startedmillingmy ferrules to fit over the blank. I have kept the overall look of a standardferrule since the ID of the joining section is not affected. The exterior ofapurchased ferrule is larger than the rod section. The difference in mine isthatthe ID that fits over the rod section is hex and the same demension as thesection it is for. I then taper the exterior to allow for a nice smoothtransition from cane to ferrule. You lightly roughen the cane and the gluewillbite very well. I have not experenced any problems with rods breaking orferrules cracking.This is just my shilings worth. Bryant C. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 22 14:27:36 1998 Subject: Re: The Monday Morning Special In a message dated 1/22/98 9:54:58 AM Pacific Standard Time,dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca writes: Gee, I sorry you're a skeptic so here goes a complete description: I wasn't trying to dog you on this, if you took offense I'm sorry. Darryl Hayashida from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Jan 22 15:10:05 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id VAA02046 for; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 21:32:35 GMT Subject: Re: The Monday Morning Special Gee, I sorry you're a skeptic so here goes a complete description: - brass body- wooden knob about 1 1/4" OD - my knob is brown- brass frog c/w screw to lock in the blade- 2 blade angle adjustment locking nuts both brass- big sign on the nose end saying Lee-Neilson on 2 lines- and oh a another sign in the "back" end saying made in the USA regards, DonThe reason you have had such poor luck and others don't understand whytheirplanes are so different is because you got hold of a fake!!! The correctspelling is Lie-Nielsen, if your plane truly says "Lee-Neilson" you haveinadvertantly purchased a knock-off (rip-off) plane. Bryant C. from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Jan 22 15:40:48 1998 SVR4) Subject: Lie-Nielsen #212 scraper plane The real thing can be seen at http://www.lie-nielsen.com/212.htm. It looks just like the superb tool I bought a year ago. A delight both to the eye and the hand, if not to the pocket book. I'm finding it hard to believe that it's the same tool that is the subject of complaints here. This tool allows shavings of 1-2 thou, with repeatability. I set the blade to be 2 thicknesses of regular writing paper proud to the sole. Oxford Xerographic 20lb weight paper, for the fastidious. A 3-4 degree blade tilt seems about right and I have never had it hook up on a node. Tilt the blade as per the web page photograph. I bought mine from Garrett Wade in NYC - good place for special tools andno sales tax for ex-New Yorkers like me. If you get their catalog watch your bank balance! from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Jan 22 16:53:58 1998 (8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA26078 for ; Thu, (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id PMWDCMBR; Thu, 22 Jan 199816:53:38 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: (de)pressing nodes Currently on rod #2 and I am still having trouble pressing nodes. I'm usingaheat gun and I am sure the lignins are breaking down when I go to the vise,butalas, I can never seem to get the node all the way squished. I have a theorythat maybe the little Pony vise I'm using isn't robust enough for the job--egnot enough pressure is being applied. More specifically, the leverage on thelittle 4 inch crank maybe isn't good enough. Thoughts? I really think I am heating the nodes enough, it has to be something else.Also, FYI, the vice is a real Pony from Sears, just like the one Waynerecommends, and I've sawed the jaws off for even better pressure. Sorry for the toungue in cheek subject line guys, but pretty soon I'll begoingnodeless if my difficulties persist! Don D. from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Jan 22 16:59:32 1998 with ESMTP id QAA04373 for ; Thu, 22 Jan (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id JJWICGCT; Thu, 22 Jan 199816:58:57 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: Re: Pony Clamps Chris, How many clamps do you need (minimum). I'm guessing about 3 dozen forall thestrips on one rod? Don D. ------------------Original text Bob 1" spring clamps I get from Mail Order. New Mexico Woodworkers. Also,Trend-lines (800-767-9999 have an off brand for about $8.95 a dozen(part #SC12)Heat treat before splitting - the sections will then split easily. I justfinished a rodwhere I need 4 tip sections and split out 32 strips easily from eachsection. Chris Robert S Williams wrote: Chris Bogart I have read your FAQs on nodeless construction and was wondering thesourceof the Pony clamps. Checked a few places but no luck. Also does it makeadifference if you heat treat before or after splitting? ThanksBob from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Jan 22 17:13:47 1998 (CET) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA16111 for; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:48:55 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Epon? ----------Chris Shell Epon - is that the same Shell as the oil company? Best regards Carsten from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Jan 22 17:14:17 1998 (CET) ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 23:51:30 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Planing strips ----------Jerry Found it, including drawing for jig. Thank You Carsten from jfoster@gte.net Thu Jan 22 17:30:48 1998 Subject: Re: Planing strips mac-creator="4D4F5353" Carsten Good, you"ll also find a link to Shell Epon on the page... Jerry from d-deloach1@ti.com Thu Jan 22 17:38:04 1998 with ESMTP id RAA19203 for ; Thu, 22 Jan (TI SMTPMail MTA v1.0.9.5) with SMTP id RMXLBDCJ; Thu, 22 Jan 199817:36:53 -0600 (Central Standard Time) Subject: nodeless slicing block Chris B, Tony and all nodeless types Forgive my ignorance if I missed something but I've never heard adiscussionnor is it in the FAQ on the details of your splicing block. from what I canseein the pictures on Jerrys web page it appears to be two (steel?) barssomehowsandwiched inside the jaws of a vise. Could anyone provide some moredetail onthis setup? I have an idea of how I was thinking of making one out of woodblocks and two dowels in a vise but I'm sure you guys with someexperiencethinks thats downright batty Oh, also, is a four inch splice pretty much the agreed upon splice length ordoes anyone offer an alteernative? ThnxDon D. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 22 18:25:34 1998 TAA22498; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:25:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon? 6698A0BD375729F80D4662C8" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 6698A0BD375729F80D4662C8 Carsten Yes it is - they have a wide variety of products. Check out thelink from the Rodmakers page into their tech spec data base - impressive. Chris Carsten Jorgensen wrote: ----------Chris Shell Epon - is that the same Shell as the oil company? Best regards Carsten --------------6698A0BD375729F80D4662C8 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------6698A0BD375729F80D4662C8-- from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Jan 22 18:26:04 1998 Subject: Re: (de)pressing nodes Don - I'm not an expert, but was complaining about the same thing atGrayrock. Wayne and Mike "Beer Guy" Biondo basically told me that thenodes had to be straight, eventually, and that I should flatten the heckout of them and then file them the rest of the way flat if need be. Doyou get into power fibres? Yes. Am I worried? No. It's a trade-off,like most things in life. Brian " Happy I'm Not Bill Clinton Today" Creek from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Jan 22 18:28:49 1998 (CET) ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 00:51:26 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Veritas Scraping Plane Insert To all rodmakers Anyone who knows anything about the Veritas Scraping Plane Insert,wouldYou please share the knowledge with me? The device is shown in the JapanWoodworker catalog, page 41. All comments, be they positive or negative,are welcomed, including experience re. the quality of products fromVeritas. Best regards Carsten from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 22 18:43:34 1998 TAA26151; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:43:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Pony Clamps E4F7952BF3928B58075AA374" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- E4F7952BF3928B58075AA374 Don Typical answer - depends. I use 3 clamps per splice. I also glue several strips at the same time. Soif youdo 3 strips with 3 or 4 splices you need about 3 dozen. You can unclampafteran hour with Titebond-II and then do the next 3 strips. I hate to say it butIhaveenough clamps to do a full rod with some left over. They fill a large box. Chris Donald A DeLoach wrote: Chris, How many clamps do you need (minimum). I'm guessing about 3 dozen forall thestrips on one rod? Don D. ------------------Original text From: Chris Bogart , on 1/21/98 9:22 PM:Bob 1" spring clamps I get from Mail Order. New Mexico Woodworkers. Also,Trend-lines (800-767-9999 have an off brand for about $8.95 a dozen(part #SC12)Heat treat before splitting - the sections will then split easily. I justfinished a rodwhere I need 4 tip sections and split out 32 strips easily from eachsection. Chris Robert S Williams wrote: Chris Bogart I have read your FAQs on nodeless construction and was wondering thesourceof the Pony clamps. Checked a few places but no luck. Also does itmake adifference if you heat treat before or after splitting? ThanksBob --------------E4F7952BF3928B58075AA374 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------E4F7952BF3928B58075AA374-- from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 22 18:44:42 1998 TAA26434; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:44:38 -0500 Subject: Re: nodeless slicing block B49D6DEB0E4FF43FDF17313C" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- B49D6DEB0E4FF43FDF17313C Don Check out the Garrison book - it has a good diagram of the splicingwith measurements. I made my first one using it. Chris Donald A DeLoach wrote: Chris B, Tony and all nodeless types Forgive my ignorance if I missed something but I've never heard adiscussionnor is it in the FAQ on the details of your splicing block. from what I canseein the pictures on Jerrys web page it appears to be two (steel?) barssomehowsandwiched inside the jaws of a vise. Could anyone provide some moredetail onthis setup? I have an idea of how I was thinking of making one out ofwoodblocks and two dowels in a vise but I'm sure you guys with someexperiencethinks thats downright batty Oh, also, is a four inch splice pretty much the agreed upon splice lengthordoes anyone offer an alteernative? ThnxDon D. --------------B49D6DEB0E4FF43FDF17313C begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------B49D6DEB0E4FF43FDF17313C-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jan 22 18:55:11 1998 Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:55:01 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: nodeless slicing block On Thu, 22 Jan 1998, Donald A DeLoach wrote: Chris B, Tony and all nodeless types Forgive my ignorance if I missed something but I've never heard adiscussionnor is it in the FAQ on the details of your splicing block. from what I canseein the pictures on Jerrys web page it appears to be two (steel?) barssomehowsandwiched inside the jaws of a vise. Could anyone provide some moredetail onthis setup? I have an idea of how I was thinking of making one out ofwoodblocks and two dowels in a vise but I'm sure you guys with someexperiencethinks thats downright batty Oh, also, is a four inch splice pretty much the agreed upon splice lengthordoes anyone offer an alteernative? ThnxDon D. I made my block by taking a length of wood, drawing a line along it at an angle of 1:22 (this slope looked like it would work and wasn't too extreme, less may be ok), clamping a straight edge along the line, setting a 6mm bit in a router to a depth of 6mm (making the hole square when completed), routing a slot the length of the wood, gluing a second piece of wood over the routed slot (you can use Titebond :-) ) then cutting the block to size. Takes about 10 mins. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 22 18:55:49 1998 TAA28885; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:55:43 -0500 Subject: Re: English Cabinet Scraper ? A15A3462108A3104C835A39B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- A15A3462108A3104C835A39B JimIf you mean for scraping off the enamel on a strip - yes they will - butreccomend you get a Sandvik cabinet scraper - best by far. Now the pointof contention. Some people sand off the enamel - I scrap the enamelcarefullyand leave the membrane just below and above the powerfibers. It appearsas a "dusty" color. I then sand to the powerfibers. If you scrape only youcanleave a "washboard" effect if you look down the strip. My way advoids itandsaves time while giving crisp corners. Chris jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: I need a scraper and was wondering if anyone has tried the very thinmetal English made scrapers. They are very thin, rectangular and allmetal. They are usually called cabinet scrapers. Seem very affordableat about $5.00. Will these work for the final finish work? Thanks. Jim Kubichek --------------A15A3462108A3104C835A39B begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------A15A3462108A3104C835A39B-- from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 22 18:59:30 1998 TAA29674; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 19:58:58 -0500 Subject: Re: (de)pressing nodes BCAE76C2FAA0AC111C3545C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- BCAE76C2FAA0AC111C3545C0 Brian You are right - don't let the little "node" do the thinking for the big"node" Chris Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Don - I'm not an expert, but was complaining about the same thing atGrayrock. Wayne and Mike "Beer Guy" Biondo basically told me that thenodes had to be straight, eventually, and that I should flatten the heckout of them and then file them the rest of the way flat if need be. Doyou get into power fibres? Yes. Am I worried? No. It's a trade-off,like most things in life. Brian " Happy I'm Not Bill Clinton Today" Creek --------------BCAE76C2FAA0AC111C3545C0 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------BCAE76C2FAA0AC111C3545C0-- from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Jan 22 19:07:25 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: English Cabinet Scraper ? I have found you can minimize the washboard effect by a final series ofvery light passes with the Sandvik held at a very acute angle to the surface.------- --- Subject: Re: English Cabinet Scraper ? JimIf you mean for scraping off the enamel on a strip - yes they will - butreccomend you get a Sandvik cabinet scraper - best by far. Now the pointof contention. Some people sand off the enamel - I scrap the enamelcarefullyand leave the membrane just below and above the powerfibers. It appearsas a "dusty" color. I then sand to the powerfibers. If you scrape only youcanleave a "washboard" effect if you look down the strip. My way advoids itandsaves time while giving crisp corners. Chris jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: I need a scraper and was wondering if anyone has tried the very thinmetal English made scrapers. They are very thin, rectangular and allmetal. They are usually called cabinet scrapers. Seem very affordableat about $5.00. Will these work for the final finish work? Thanks. Jim Kubichek from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jan 22 19:26:19 1998 UAA14629 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:26:14 Subject: EPON To Charlie Hisey and the ListThis was sent first off list but was some problem with your address.Regarding Epons, they can be mixed in various proportions to achievevarious results (more stiffness, etc.) but 50/50 by volume seems to workbest for rods. Overnight cure at room temp is fine, quicker if warmed. Thelong cure time is a real plus for me. It's great stuff.Way back when I was in space work, Epon was not included in the list ofshelf-life sensitive materials and we were careful about this. I bought myfirst quarts about 1970, my next in the 80's and am about to re-order. My30year old rods still perform great. Bill from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jan 22 19:26:22 1998 UAA14632 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:26:17 Subject: Cure Time To Jon and the List,Here's a high tech solution to determine cure time for adhesives. Whenyouglue up, make a small puddle of the glue and keep the puddle in the sameenvironment as the work. When the puddle cures, so does the work. Bill from channer@frontier.net Thu Jan 22 19:35:09 1998 Subject: Epon Jerry;Thanks for the info. I finally got around to reading the adhesives fac onthe homepage,Shell has quite an extensive page for Epon, most of whichwasgreek to me.I'll just take Chris's word for it. How much attention do youhave to pay to the warnings, and can you clean it off the blank while itswet with anything or do you just sand/scrape it off after its dry? Thanksagain.John Channer from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jan 22 19:57:23 1998 UAA17259 for ; Thu, 22 Jan 1998 20:57:20 Subject: Clamps for Nodeless To you nodeless fansHere's another hi tech solution. Those 1 1/4 inch blued steel paper clipssold for office work work just fine. Who cares if they corrode a bit after afew years? Bill from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Jan 22 20:04:51 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: scrappers At the shop I worked at we used dull and broken bandsaw blades upto 2"wide that we got for free at the bandsaw blade sharpening shop, broke ofthe length we wanted, ground off the teeth and put a burr on them. Onetwo inch blade will make a life time supply of scrapers. You can alsomake splitting knives out of them. I heat the pieces in my wood stovered hot and quench them in oil then bake them in my oven about 250-350 ------FREE!!! Patrick from mrbamboo@kaiwan.com Thu Jan 22 20:56:02 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Alts... No, I do not scrape the strips before gluing. After final cutting Ithen alternate the nodes, and tape together. After gluing and initialdrying, the rod pieces are then thermal set at approx. 100 deg. for10-12 hours. The string is then taken off, strips are straightened, andthe enamel is then removed. Most of the inspection of flaws is donebefore and durring strip splitting & cutting so that no extra effort isdone with bad strips. Paul Jon Lintvet wrote: I was wondering if anyone out there was not scraping the stripsbefore gluing? If so...what is your last step? Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781 from Bopep@aol.com Thu Jan 22 23:07:15 1998 Subject: Re: (sup)pressing nodes I've taken to using an el cheapo drill press vise I ordered from Mcmaster-Carr. There is a ton of power for squishing the nodes and a handy v groovemilled into one side in case a node pops up again later. This Will solveyourproblem...but be sure the node is good and hot, it seems you could smashthething to splinters with a little too much aggression (#!??/*&^^^^^^^$!!nodes!) Rob from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Jan 23 00:37:39 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA3965 +0000 Subject: Re: need rod id in idaho Hi,I think I just accidentally stumbled upon the maker of your rod at thefollowing site: http://www.auctions-on-line.comfollow the links there to an auction to be held in England on 1/31/98(M & M). Apparently, there is/was a British maker who built bamboorods called "Leonard Registered" (not to be confused with H.L. Leonardin the US). You might give the auctioneer a call, they may be able totell you more. George Bourke ----------From: Leonard Wilson Subject: need rod id in idahoDate: Thursday, January 22, 1998 4:32 AM folks, could anyone here help with identifying a rod irecently acquired? been mainly a 'lurker' on this service am thankful for such a source of expertise.follows is a description i sent to michael sinclair. greatguy -- he sent back that he thought it was British(hardy/farlow? possibly -- it does have British typeguides).thanks in advance,leonard wilsonwilder, idaho from - Thu Jan 22 05:23:27 1998X-Mozilla-Status: 9011Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Jan 1998 19:03:57 -0700From: Leonard Wilson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.03 [en] (Win95; I)MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: help?References: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Caneclinic wrote: Hi - Could not read the attachments - I'm on a Mac, that's probably why.Would beglad to help if I can. Can you send Jpeg or GIF? - Michael michael, i grabbed those images off the web site of the guy who soldme thatrod, and have to admit i'm not computer literate enough to change theirformat(if that's possible).so here's a description as i hold this thing in front of me. i prettymuchexpect you to just say "huh", 'cuz it may have just been made by someobscuremaker or friend of this guy who's name is on it. do appreciate any feedback. story is the guy i bought this from got it in an estate deal from thisguy'swidow. he was a doctor in lewiston, id. the rod is 8' 2/1 for a 6(appears tohave only come with one tip since the very nice heavy poplin bag is only2compartment), looks to be impregnated, has an oil finish not varnish. dlscrewlock reel seat - black bakelite squared off heavy threads with a possiblywalnut knob like butt plug - reel foot holders (?) appear to be knurledaluminum. grip is full wells. wraps are a golden brown tipped black andstripper guide (which is quite close to the grip) has an amber insert ofsomesort. ferrules are very nice n/s with a ferrule plug that's cork with aneatsilver tear drop knob on it.now for the cool stuff: above the grip and printed (in black) on theflats is"8' Special G/P." then "R.W. Eastwood, M.D." then "#6." then "1973." these wereprinted on successive flats. further up and printed spiraled around theblankis "St,(but could be 8f or 8t) Leonard, Regd, G/B." well that's it, was just wondering. the thing casts very nicely. thanks again,leonard (in what's now become snowy, wet, yucky s.w. idaho) from stpete@netten.net Fri Jan 23 08:03:56 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA24457 for; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:16:49 -0600 Subject: Woodworking bench Anybody know any sites with instructions or plans for building a woodworkers bench? I'd be very interested to know of it if one exists. Thanks, Rick from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Jan 23 08:11:26 1998 Subject: Re: The Monday Morning Special At 15:06 22/01/98 -0600, you wrote: Gee, I sorry you're a skeptic so here goes a complete description: - brass body- wooden knob about 1 1/4" OD - my knob is brown- brass frog c/w screw to lock in the blade- 2 blade angle adjustment locking nuts both brass- big sign on the nose end saying Lee-Neilson on 2 lines- and oh a another sign in the "back" end saying made in the USA regards, DonThe reason you have had such poor luck and others don't understand whytheirplanes are so different is because you got hold of a fake!!! The correctspelling is Lie-Nielsen, if your plane truly says "Lee-Neilson" you haveinadvertantly purchased a knock-off (rip-off) plane. Bryant C. Whoops - a typo - mine is Lie-Neilson - just went down to the shop andchecked. Figure the reason I have had the trouble I've had is directlyrelated to the length of time I've had it. Likely the first few outta thebox are not up to snuff. Let the consumer use the product, bitch a littleto the company and then the company changes the product to conform tothedemands of the market.Like some folks said " sure is purty". And after the modification I've hadto do - it does what its supposed to do. But @ the bucks I paid for it -about $ 200 CDN some years ago, I expected better. But there you go -should know better - also took my clue from Garrison on my planepurchases- got a Stanley to start - didn't know what a good plane was til I got aRecord. The Record iron you could get sharp and it mostly stays that way. best. regards, Don from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Fri Jan 23 08:26:42 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 225 0600 Subject: Lie-Nielsen 103 Standard Block Plane If anyone is using a L-N 103 Standard Block Plane I would be veryinterested in hearing your evaluation of it, especially if you have alsoused a Stanley 9 1/2. Is the extra cost justified in results and/orquality. Thanks. Jim Kubichek from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Fri Jan 23 08:44:22 1998 (AST) 23 Jan 98 09:49:14 -0500 0500 23 Jan 98 09:48:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Woodworking bench One site is www.charm.net/~jriley/bench.html-----Original Message----- Subject: Woodworking bench Anybody know any sites with instructions or plans for building a woodworkers bench? I'd be very interested to know of it if one exists. Thanks, Rick from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Jan 23 09:03:20 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Tapers question Friends, Does anyone have any info on the Mike Clark tapers or rods that JohnGierach seems to love so much? Gierach seems to like a little longerrod than most of us are building; longer even than most of the tapers inthe archives with the exceptions of heavy line weight rods.As a follow-up, I'd be interested in any 8 1/2' medium fast tofast tapers, in 4-5 weight rods. I suspect from reading this list thatGarrison's are on the slow side. Thanks, Harry Boyd from d_price@global2000.net Fri Jan 23 09:17:54 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id KAA23548 for; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 10:17:40 -0500 Subject: Planing Forms Hi, AllStarting my planing forms and was wondering at what point does thearea of contact become to small for the average person to keep aconsistant 60deg.bevel on the strips??. I'm making a 5'steel set andtrying to figure the best depth measurements for the rods I'm interestedin.________________\ strip /_________\ /area of contact(%)??\ /steel l\ /l l \ / l steell \/ ll l Thanks in advance, Dave PriceReading the Garrison book(neat!) P.S.great info on the rod making site and others!!!!!....found oneproblem that was over looked(that I'm interested in)is one of Waynestapers is listed two times and the one I would like to look at isn'tthere(7642 comes up when you select 7922). P.S.S.A little hint, A little butchers wax buffed out on plane bottoms andmetal surfaces goes a long way to help reduce drag and make for asmoother cut.Most woodworkers do this to all tools and machinery like areligon!!!. from eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com Fri Jan 23 09:19:15 1998 gateus.meissner-wurst.com via smap (3.2) with SMTP id AAA199; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:25:39 -0600 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 000030E0; Fri, 23 Jan 9810:11:43 -0600 stpete Subject: Re: Woodworking bench --IMA.Boundary.309175588 I've been going through the process of gathering workbench plans lately... I've found a great deal of general info, but only a couple sources of plans for a high quality do-it-yourself bench. The best I've found so far is (I think I remember this correcly) from Workbench Magazine from fall of '97. I haven't started on mine yet, so I can't comment on the bench or these plans. I found very little useful info on the web... the local public library was my best source. Good luck and mail me (off list) of other references you run across.Eck ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Woodworking benchAuthor: stpete at SMTP_Gateway Anybody know any sites with instructions or plans for building a woodworkers bench? I'd be very interested to know of it if one exists. Thanks, Rick--IMA.Boundary.309175588 headers" ccgate.us.meissner-wurst.com with SMTP(IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 000030CD; Fri, 23 Jan 9809:00:54-0600 with ESMTP id AAA225 for ;Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:14:48 -0600 09:02:21 wurst.com viasmap (3.2) cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA24457 for; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 08:16:49 -0600 Subject: Woodworking bench --IMA.Boundary.309175588-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Jan 23 09:27:36 1998 JAA24242 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 09:27:34 - (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id JAA05510 for ; Subject: Re: nodeless slicing block The thing about making splices for a nodeless rod is that you have to make a lot of them, probably cutting 100 or more tapers (50 splice joints) for a basic trout rod. So anything you can do to speed the process helps. Like using a 1-part glue and having lots of clamps. My splicing block for strips is a basic hardwood version, but I added two little features: First, a couple "lips" on the outsideedges so it doesn't drop down into the vise every time you openthe jaws (not exactly rocket science here). Second, I spring loadedthe faces so they open up automatically with the vise. Also, I cut the initial tapers on the strips with a band saw and a little jig that slides in the mitre slot. Then a few passes with theplane in the jig and its ready for glueing. If you've read the nodeless FAQ's, you know that in the finished rodsection, you can alternate the direction of the splices in adjacent strips, and you can stagger the splice locations just like you do nodes.Since I have trouble planning that far ahead, I wrote a computer programto take my finished strips and arrange them so the splices are asfar apart as possible on the adjacent strips. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 23 10:25:16 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Rod finishing/Dipped? Bret,Sorry for the delay in answering you-been busy and now have 100+ e- mails tocheck. As far as I know several people on the list spray their rods. Ideletedone several days ago so I can't help you i.d. the list member. Perhaps someothers will respond.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 23 10:29:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Scraping Alts... Same as GEM.Hank. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Jan 23 11:40:12 1998 Subject: Veritas Supplier Guys, Thought you might be interested in the company that makes the VeritasLineof tools. Check you Tis a Canadian outfit - supplies sharp edges in most types + a host ofother products. Best supplier for hand tools I've seen. And with the Canadian dollar in the tank - might be some great buys there. regards, Don from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Jan 23 13:19:17 1998 Subject: mica strip Any advice on Mica strips? Where did folks get their's? How much? Thanksin advance. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jan 23 13:35:43 1998 Subject: Re: Planing Forms In a message dated 1/23/98 7:23:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,d_price@global2000.net writes: Starting my planing forms and was wondering at what point does thearea of contact become to small for the average person to keep aconsistant 60deg.bevel on the strips??. I'm making a 5'steel set andtrying to figure the best depth measurements for the rods I'm interestedin. I am currently working on a 6' 3" 2wt. The tip strips are .052 diameterat the tip (.026 strip depth). This is real close to my planing form closed up all the way. I haven't glued the blank yet, but my feeling is it's going to be harder to bind the strips for glue up than it would be to plane them. In other words, I think you will run into problems with other things, likebinding, glue up, or sanding the glue off the blank with anything smaller than .020 strip depth. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jan 23 13:42:01 1998 Subject: Re: Newbie staring at 12 foot culms In a message dated 1/22/98 10:39:08 AM Pacific Standard Time,brown.mark@usa.net writes: does anyone have any tips for getting the most out of full-lengthculms? Is it worthwhile trying to get as many splits out of the 12 footculm before bucking section lengths out of the strips? An uncut 12 foot long culm is great for making a one piece rod, but soare spliced nodeless strips. Other than that being able to choose whereyou cut the culm (through a node, depending on spacing and what youare going to build), it's easier to work on shorter strips. Darryl Hayashida from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri Jan 23 14:18:38 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id UAA15577 for; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 20:41:28 GMT Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen 103 Standard Block Plane jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: If anyone is using a L-N 103 Standard Block Plane I would be veryinterested in hearing your evaluation of it, especially if you have alsoused a Stanley 9 1/2. Is the extra cost justified in results and/orquality. Thanks. Jim Kubichek I for one am a great believer in the Lie-Nielsen products. I collect oldtools and have a few stanleys, some of which I purchased new. The L-Nproducts are extremely similar, just better fit and quality than thestanleys. My grandfather told me to always buy the best quality tools youcould afford. This is sage advise I use my stanleys when my L-N bladesbecome dull (I can still plane walnut but not bamboo) and I don't want tostop and sharpen blades. I get excellent results with both it's just thatthe L-N products are soooo pretty and a pure pleasure to use. Bryant C. from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Fri Jan 23 15:45:25 1998 mailfep2-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Planing Forms type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Starting my planing forms and was wondering at what point does thearea of contact become to small for the average person to keep aconsistant 60deg.bevel on the strips??. I'm making a 5'steel set andtrying to figure the best depth measurements for the rods I'minterestedin. I think you'll find that Garrison recommend a depth of .031 thru .070 onthe tip side of his planing form. My forms were machined to the Garrisonpattern and the jaws are completely closed at the tip when making thefinal passes with the plane. This, of course, is necessary to providethe support needed to plane the micro-thin splines. A little hint, A little butchers wax buffed out on plane bottoms andmetal surfaces goes a long way to help reduce drag and make for asmoother cut.Most woodworkers do this to all tools and machinery likeareligon!!!. A bit of caution here... any wax or other contaminant, no matter howlittle, would seriously interfere with adhesion during the glue-up --Since it would next to impossible to remove all the wax residue from thecell structure of the splines. The beauty part of a seriously sharpplane blade is that it 'slices' through the cell structure of the bamboo(or wood for that matter) -- this 'clean' cut is what allows the glue topenetrate the cell structure and allow a strong bond to form (that's whyyou shouldn't 'sand' to the final thickness). Frankly, I wouldn't messwith any wax. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rods / http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from d_price@global2000.net Fri Jan 23 16:59:13 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id RAA32675 for; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 17:59:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Planing Forms Joe Loverti wrote: Starting my planing forms and was wondering at what point does thearea of contact become to small for the average person to keep aconsistant 60deg.bevel on the strips??. I'm making a 5'steel set andtrying to figure the best depth measurements for the rods I'minterestedin. I think you'll find that Garrison recommend a depth of .031 thru .070 onthe tip side of his planing form. My forms were machined to the Garrisonpattern and the jaws are completely closed at the tip when making thefinal passes with the plane. This, of course, is necessary to providethe support needed to plane the micro-thin splines. A little hint, A little butchers wax buffed out on plane bottoms andmetal surfaces goes a long way to help reduce drag and make for asmoother cut.Most woodworkers do this to all tools and machinery likeareligon!!!. A bit of caution here... any wax or other contaminant, no matter howlittle, would seriously interfere with adhesion during the glue-up --Since it would next to impossible to remove all the wax residue from thecell structure of the splines. The beauty part of a seriously sharpplane blade is that it 'slices' through the cell structure of the bamboo(or wood for that matter) -- this 'clean' cut is what allows the glue topenetrate the cell structure and allow a strong bond to form (that's whyyou shouldn't 'sand' to the final thickness). Frankly, I wouldn't messwith any wax. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rods / http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods Joe you buff the wax very hard and it dosn't pass on to the wood orbamboo, you would be amazed at how much better your tools work!!!!!!.But the main question was about surface contact with the form,I'mlooking at maybe .025 for my small end of the tip(.070 is to big for therods I'll make)now lets say I make a rod that is .08 at the tip, is thebamboo going to be hard to keep cradled at the right angle in the formwhile I plane it??????. Garrisons book is confusing about wich forms heused(drawn one way and specified in the text another way)Dave Price from rkovalak@bright.net Fri Jan 23 18:50:49 1998 sparticus.bright.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/FNG) with ESMTP id TAA24565; Fri, 23 Subject: Re: Woodworking bench stpete wrote: Anybody know any sites with instructions or plans for building awoodworkers bench? I'd be very interested to know of it if one exists. Thanks, Rick Stpete, You can find very good plans for woodworking benches in FineWoodworking,American Woodworker and Woodsmith magazines. They have had versionscovering a simple 2x4 benche, closet bench, Shaker bench and European. Ifyou are interested I could look and find the particular issues in eachmagazine. --Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jan 23 18:55:47 1998 Sat, 24 Jan 1998 08:55:38 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Woodworking bench On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, stpete wrote: Anybody know any sites with instructions or plans for building a woodworkers bench? I'd be very interested to know of it if one exists. Thanks, Rick Don't know of any sites, but there's a book called"The Workbench Book" by Scott Landis which has been around long enough to be available in your library. If you don't find a bench in this book to your liking the thing dosn't exist.I'd recomend the cabinet makers bench, the one with an end and tail visewith benchdog holes along it's length. One other thing, make the bench long and narrow, that way you need to keep putting tools back in their right place and don't clutter the bench top where they invariably get knocked to the ground. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Jan 23 19:16:10 1998 Subject: Re: Woodworking bench I received an add from Wordworkers Supply( I think) that has work benchtops for sale. They looked to be good quality for the $100 to $200 range. I would be happy to find the address and phone number if someone isinterested. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Ron Kovalak Subject: Re: Woodworking benchDate: Friday, January 23, 1998 4:42 PM stpete wrote: Anybody know any sites with instructions or plans for building awoodworkers bench? I'd be very interested to know of it if one exists. Thanks, Rick Stpete, You can find very good plans for woodworking benches in FineWoodworking,American Woodworker and Woodsmith magazines. They have hadversionscovering a simple 2x4 benche, closet bench, Shaker bench and European.Ifyou are interested I could look and find the particular issues in eachmagazine. --Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Fri Jan 23 20:27:34 1998 mailfep2-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Planing Forms type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Joe you buff the wax very hard and it dosn't pass on to the wood orbamboo, you would be amazed at how much better your tools work!!!!!!.But the main question was about surface contact with the form,I'mlooking at maybe .025 for my small end of the tip(.070 is to big fortherods I'll make)now lets say I make a rod that is .08 at the tip, isthebamboo going to be hard to keep cradled at the right angle in the form while I plane it??????. Garrisons book is confusing about wich formsheused(drawn one way and specified in the text another way)Dave Price Dave:I realize that you would use very little wax and buff really hard. benefit.But, with cane rod building, viewed from a 'molecular perceptive' -- orat the microscopic cell level -- you can buff until the cows come home... you still run a real risk of contaminating the extremely small(.030) gluing surface of rod tips with molecules of wax. All you reallyneed is a surgically sharp blade for your tools to work properly. On the planing forms: I doubt you'll have any problem. If you make yourform with a minimum small-end depth of .025 -- when want to make athicker tips, you just slide the spline down the form an inch or two --or three, until you reach the new depth you desire -- say .035 or so. Ithink you'll find that at such a small dimensions the planing form willstill be nearly closed tight -- no problem. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Rods / http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Fri Jan 23 20:56:58 1998 VAA01129 for ; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 21:19:00-0500 Subject: Re: Lie-Nielsen 103 Standard Block Plane If anyone is using a L-N 103 Standard Block Plane I would be veryinterested in hearing your evaluation of it, especially if you have alsoused a Stanley 9 1/2. Is the extra cost justified in results and/orquality. Thanks. Jim Kubichek I don't have any experience with the block plane but I use the LN SkewPlane effortlessly. I do have the scraper as well but I'm still trying to figureit out. Got used to a plain old cabinet scraper and this seems to workbetter than anything for me.Sean Moran from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Jan 23 21:16:40 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Woodworking bench Tried to check out website could not bring it up. are you sure this is rightaddress?Bret from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Jan 23 22:43:03 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 23Jan 1998 23:45:05 -0500 Subject: Kindling... Remember that nodeless section that I was so happy I glued up the other night with the Epon? Hehe....well I took the binder wraps off and proceeded to sand the section after two days of curing. Well I turned the section into kindling...The epon was still flexible and I forced gaps in between the splines....oh well...seven days before the other rods gets touched! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from stpete@netten.net Fri Jan 23 23:11:13 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA17253 for; Fri, 23 Jan 1998 23:24:24 -0600 Subject: Woodworking benches - thanks Thanks for all the feedback on woodworking benches. I accessed the sitementioned by John M. This helps. I had drawn out plans for a bench tobe made with scrap lumber and some seconds I bought of oak truckflooring. (Laminated oak made from 1" boards in 12" x 8' sections, likebutcher block counter tops). I really wanted ideas on how and where tomount a vise(s) and working height. This site confirms some of my good help me make a better bench. I think a trip to the library may be inorder as well. Don't want to spend too much time on the bench itself,but I'm tired of the makeshift arrangements I have to deal with now. Rick. from channer@frontier.net Sat Jan 24 00:46:43 1998 Subject: workbenches stpete;If you haven't come up with any good ideas about bench height, dosomethingat your kitchen countertops to see if they are comfortable for you,thenadjust up or down to suit. I'm a carpenter and if I work on other peoplessaw horses for any length of time I get raging backache. Height is veryimportant for a work surface you are going to spend any time standing at.Agood rule of thumb is elbow height or just a few{2-4} inches less. Tonywasright, the Workbench Book by Scott Landis, is a must. Hope this helps.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jan 24 04:36:08 1998 Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:36:01 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Kindling... On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: Remember that nodeless section that I was so happy I glued up the other night with the Epon? Hehe....well I took the binder wraps off and proceeded to sand the section after two days of curing. Well I turned the section into kindling...The epon was still flexible and I forced gaps in between the splines....oh well...seven days before the other rods gets touched! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 Told ya the stuff cures slowly. Still, sounds like not enough hardener or not mixed enough? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jan 24 04:40:31 1998 Sat, 24 Jan 1998 18:40:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Woodworking benches - thanks On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, stpete wrote: Thanks for all the feedback on woodworking benches. I accessed the sitementioned by John M. This helps. I had drawn out plans for a bench tobe made with scrap lumber and some seconds I bought of oak truckflooring. (Laminated oak made from 1" boards in 12" x 8' sections, likebutcher block counter tops). I really wanted ideas on how and where tomount a vise(s) and working height. This site confirms some of my good help me make a better bench. I think a trip to the library may be inorder as well. Don't want to spend too much time on the bench itself,but I'm tired of the makeshift arrangements I have to deal with now. Rick. Without consulting it, I think the Garrison book recomends the top being pretty high, but before deciding on the height try standing straight and let your hands fall to your sides with straight elbows, then make a fistand hold your thumbs out. I've found the best height is if the top is level with your thumbs. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from schanze@ibm.net Sat Jan 24 07:25:22 1998 Subject: Re: Kindling... I have been one of the lurkers on the list for the past 18 or so months andhave learned a lot from the various discussions. I am working on my 11thand12th rods, a para- 15 and Waynes 7 ft 4 wt. I have been using URAC butafterthis discussion of Shell EPON, I am going to order a qt this week. What isthe ratio of EPON to EPI-CURE 3140 that you all have found to be the mosteffective? Are there any special tips to mixing the two, i.e. in an icedbowl, room temp, wait-time between stirring and applying, etc.? Is thereanoptimum curing time?This might have been discussed previously and I missed it. If so, sorry forbeing redundant. Thanks for the helpSteve Tony Young wrote: On Fri, 23 Jan 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: Remember that nodeless section that I was so happy I glued up theother night with the Epon? Hehe....well I took the binder wraps offand proceeded to sand the section after two days of curing. Well Iturned the section into kindling...The epon was still flexible and Iforced gaps in between the splines....oh well...seven days before theother rods gets touched! Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781 Told ya the stuff cures slowly. Still, sounds like not enough hardener ornot mixed enough? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jan 24 10:44:03 1998 Subject: Re: Veritas Supplier Don - Lee Valley also has a place in Ogdensburg, NY 1-800-871-8158I agree they are worth knowing about. I just found them myself by anothermethod. It seems they imported a large number of the old style Sabatiercarbonsteel kitchen knives, some of them hand forged. I hope this dosen't startanother "grits" type discussion, but if you like cooking these are greatknives to have, and the prices are reasonable. They will send you a catalog. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Jan 24 11:02:28 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sat, 24Jan 1998 12:04:32 -0500 Subject: Hardner Does anyone out there have a idea of what would happen if you used too much hardener? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 24 11:28:29 1998 Subject: Re: Kindling... Never having tried Epon, although a friend of mine gave mesome, Excel polyurethane glue gives you all of the featuresof slow set up time, waterproofness and extreme durablity,and it's a one part, no mixing glue. You have at least acouple hours to straighten and it's totally hardened ina day. Another plus is polyurethane glues are becominga lot more common.I just bought some Pro Bond polyurethane glue made by the Elmer's Glue people.Preliminary tests indicate it's just like the Excel I'vebeen using on the last dozen rods I've made. GorillaGlue is a polyurethane glue also, and is available inall the woodworking stores in my area. One word of caution - wear latex gloves when usingpolyurethane glues. The glue bonds to the top layerof your skin and forms a slick layer that you can'tget off until the skin wears off. Darryl Hayashida from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jan 24 12:20:55 1998 NAA04209 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 13:22:46-0500 Subject: Re: Kindling... Darryl Not to start a glue war - but there are certain issues withPolyurethaneGlues for rodbuilders. I did test on splice strips about 2 years ago andsawfirst hand. These are reactive glues - they need moisture to cure - fromthe air. If you dry the cane to low moisture you may have a problem with thisglue.When I broke the glue joint - the two surfaces broke clean - there was nopenetration of the glue into the fibers. Chris On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 12:27:22 EST, SalarFly wrote: Regards Chris from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jan 24 13:32:14 1998 Subject: Hide Glue I saw hide glue in Woodworkers catalog. Has any1 tried this and is it thesaameas in the old days or is a different glue. Could this be used for repairs onolder rods with success? bret from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sat Jan 24 13:51:39 1998 doing -bs Subject: Hardy Perfect I see that at the Hanson's website, on the Hardy reel page, they areadvertising the 125th Anniversary Limited Edition 3" Brass Perfect. Only$1650.00. http://www.anglingbc.com/hansons/equip1.html Thomas PenroseBend, OR from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 24 14:02:08 1998 Subject: Re: Kindling... In a message dated 1/24/98 10:22:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: If you dry the cane to low moisture you may have a problem with thisglue.When I broke the glue joint - the two surfaces broke clean - there wasnopenetration of the glue into the fibers. I remember your post from a couple of years ago, and I was puzzledabout it then. I have had nothing even remotely resembling your results.The glue needs only 10 to 15% atmospheric humidity to catalyze, andunless you live in the most arid areas of a desert you should have noproblems. The glue also expands as it hardens, and this helps to force the glue into the grain. Don't worry, the expansion isn't as dramatic asto force your splines apart if they are bound correctly. The only thing I can think of is contamination of the glue, somethingon the bamboo (wax?), who knows? The only glue I've had fail was Dap Weldwood, which is a brand of URAC, and you know how much others swear by URAC. All I can say is it works for me...... Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 24 14:04:02 1998 Subject: Re: Hide Glue In a message dated 1/24/98 11:38:40 AMPacificStandard Time, Grhghlndr@aol.com writes: I saw hide glue in Woodworkerscatalog. Hasany1 tried this and is it thesaame as in the old days or is a different glue. Could this be used for repairs on older rods with success? As long as you use the flakes or granules you have to heat, not theliquid hide glue it's the same stuff. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Jan 24 14:30:55 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: hide glue The liquid hide glue is good for gluing papers together but not for woodor bamboo. The only glue failures of hide glue we came across at theshop was ones where some one had used liquid hide glue. We made gluepots by using the old boil type contact lens cleaners we found atstarvation army for a couple of bucks. We put the wheel type in linedimmer switches in the cords, put a coiled piece of coat hanger in thebottom of the pot, put in about a 1/4 inche of water and put in a babyfood juice bottle on top of the coil to use as a glue pot. You put thehide glue, tears or beads are best, in the bottle- covered them withwater and let them soak until they had absorbed all of the water thenheated it to about 155 degrees-any more than that not only shortens yourwork time but over cooks the glue and weakens it bonding strength. Ifyou want to increase the working time just thin the glue out with morewater. Keep in mind all the great violins, cello's and basses made bythe masters were made with hide glue and to a large extent they haveheld up for decades (none are original they have all been taken apartand strengthened to handle the modern string tensions). PatrickLUTHIER from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Jan 24 14:32:57 1998 Subject: Re: Kindling... Darryl -Are you worried about straightening with heat when the rods take aset? Brian from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Jan 24 14:50:38 1998 Subject: Re: hide glue Patrick - How long does a varnish finish last on a violin or cello? from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jan 24 16:44:53 1998 RAA08773 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:46:43-0500 Subject: Re: Kindling... Darryl I know I was more abusive on the strips then any fisherman wouldbe. Anyone can do the tests and see for themselves. I took strips from thesame culm section - planed a splice and glued using 3 1" spring clampsper splice. To break a splice the best way is lateral pressure. Hold thestrip with the enamel up and fingers on the side and push with the thumbs.The best holding glues was our current othe topic - pure hide glue(I used the flakes vice pearl) followed by titebond-II and Shell. A numberof other glues did not fair as well. Sooooo... if someone is in thedistructivemode - try this test and report the results - a good way to take outaggressions. Chris On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 14:58:56 EST, SalarFly wrote: Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jan 24 16:51:04 1998 RAA08887 for ; Sat, 24 Jan 1998 17:52:55-0500 Subject: Re: nodeless slicing block Frank I just finished splicing up strips for a butt section with tip sectionstofollow tomorrow. I was interested in your post. So I timed myself forplaningthe splice - I averaged less than 10 seconds per splice. I am using metal blocks but I tried my wooden ones and same result. It seems if you have a sharp blade the actual planing is not a time consumer. I figured doing ityour way it would prob increase the time. I tell people that it takesbetween10-15 minutes to go from pieces to a glued up spliced strip. I spend themost time making sure the enamel is even in the glue joint. I really don'tsee right now any one place I can save much time. chris The thing about making splices for a nodeless rod is that you have to make a lot of them, probably cutting 100 or more tapers (50 splice joints) for a basic trout rod. So anything you can do to speed the process helps. Like using a 1-part glue and having lots of clamps. My splicing block for strips is a basic hardwood version, but I added two little features: First, a couple "lips" on the outsideedges so it doesn't drop down into the vise every time you openthe jaws (not exactly rocket science here). Second, I spring loadedthe faces so they open up automatically with the vise. Also, I cut the initial tapers on the strips with a band saw and a little jig that slides in the mitre slot. Then a few passes with theplane in the jig and its ready for glueing. If you've read the nodeless FAQ's, you know that in the finished rodsection, you can alternate the direction of the splices in adjacent strips, and you can stagger the splice locations just like you do nodes.Since I have trouble planning that far ahead, I wrote a computer programto take my finished strips and arrange them so the splices are asfar apart as possible on the adjacent strips. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Regards Chris from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jan 24 17:05:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hide Glue Darryl,I believe it was liquid hide glue that i saw.Bret from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Sat Jan 24 18:18:49 1998 mailfep4-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Kindling... type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" The best holding glues was our current othe topic - pure hide glue(I used the flakes vice pearl) followed by titebond-II and Shell. Anumberof other glues did not fair as well. Chris:Did you include URAC in your experiment ? If so, how did it rank ? Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rods / http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from lblan@provide.net Sat Jan 24 23:00:41 1998 Subject: Re: Kindling... I just finished using Pro-Bond Polyurethane on a project (not a rod). Thecontainer actually recommends dampening the wood just prior to applyingtheglue. Larry Blan Darryl Not to start a glue war - but there are certain issues with PolyurethaneGlues for rodbuilders. I did test on splice strips about 2 years ago andsawfirst hand. These are reactive glues - they need moisture to cure - fromtheair. If you dry the cane to low moisture you may have a problem with thisglue.When I broke the glue joint - the two surfaces broke clean - there was nopenetration of the glue into the fibers.Chris from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 25 01:41:23 1998 Subject: Re: Kindling... In a message dated 1/24/98 12:35:53 PM Pacific Standard Time,mcreek@sirus.comwrites: Darryl -Are you worried about straightening with heat when the rods take aset? None of my rods have taken a set - yet (knock on wood).But, in straightening a blank I've found it more difficult to straightena blank glued up with polyurethane or epoxy than with Titebond II. That probably can be equated with it being more difficult to take a set out of a rod glued with polyurethane or epoxy than withTitebond II.On the other hand, perhaps a rod glued up with polyurethane or epoxy won't take a set as easily as one glued with Titebond II. Only time willtell. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Jan 25 08:11:44 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: hide glue there is Stradivarius and guadaninies and others that still have theiroriginal varnishes on them. Two hundred years is nothing for those oldvarnishes to last. ----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com[SMTP:TSmithwick@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, January 24, 1998 12:48 PM Subject: Re: hide glue Patrick - How long does a varnish finish last on a violin or cello? from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 25 09:06:04 1998 KAA01990 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:08:04-0500 Subject: Re: Kindling... Larry I actually did dampen some of the strips in a second series withPolyurethane and it did make a stronger bind - but still not what I gotwith the aforementioned glues. Chris On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 15:29:55 -0500, Larry Blan wrote: I just finished using Pro-Bond Polyurethane on a project (not a rod). Thecontainer actually recommends dampening the wood just prior to applyingtheglue. Larry Blan Darryl Not to start a glue war - but there are certain issues with PolyurethaneGlues for rodbuilders. I did test on splice strips about 2 years ago andsawfirst hand. These are reactive glues - they need moisture to cure - fromtheair. If you dry the cane to low moisture you may have a problem withthisglue.When I broke the glue joint - the two surfaces broke clean - there wasnopenetration of the glue into the fibers.Chris Regards Chris from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Jan 25 09:14:45 1998 Subject: Re: RE: hide glue In a message dated 1/25/98 2:15:14 PM, you wrote: Patrick - That is what I thought. I have seen some of the old instrumentsandthe varnish did look original. I wonder why the finishes on rods seem to beshorter lived. I suppose it could be related to the increased flexing, or toUV because of using them outside a lot, or temperature extremes due tomorecareless storage and handling? from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 25 09:19:00 1998 KAA02162 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:20:54-0500 Subject: Re: Kindling... Joe Yes, I did use URAC in the experiments - it came in the middle - Itappearsto be a "brittle" glue from the results. It did penetrate the cane and whenthe splice brokeit also resulted in pulling fibers apart. Remember I am doing a destructive test that goes far beyound"normal"or "abusive" use. It is in Wayne's words a Glueatine Test. I welcomeanyone who hasa selection of glues available to try a simular test and report the results. I did not tryand measure the amount of force needed so it looks like a project for thenext Grayrockand we need Mike"Brewmiester" Biondo with his calibrated bottles to helpwith the test. The surprising thing about having to break the splices is that it isvery hardto do flexing with the splice - you have to go against the splice. Overallthe spliceis a very strong bond. Chris On Sat, 24 Jan 1998 19:19:51 -0500, Joe Loverti wrote: The best holding glues was our current othe topic - pure hide glue(I used the flakes vice pearl) followed by titebond-II and Shell. Anumberof other glues did not fair as well. Chris:Did you include URAC in your experiment ? If so, how did it rank ? Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rods / http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Jan 25 09:43:05 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Veritas Supplier At 11:39 24/01/98 EST, you wrote:Don - Lee Valley also has a place in Ogdensburg, NY 1-800-871-8158I agree they are worth knowing about. I just found them myself byanothermethod. It seems they imported a large number of the old style Sabatiercarbonsteel kitchen knives, some of them hand forged. I hope this dosen't startanother "grits" type discussion, but if you like cooking these are greatknives to have, and the prices are reasonable. They will send you acatalog. Tom, from time to time, Lee Valley gets the tag ends or finds some offbeatproducts from suppliers throughout the world. They had a special on filesacouple of years ago. Excellent quality and great price.If you like fine products and dealing with a reputable company give them ashot. A story: Some years ago I had the "hots" for a wood body plane. Wrote them anddescribed what I intended to do with the planes. I had selected 3 planes from their catalogue and asked their advice of which would serve myneedsbest. They suggested the least cost plane.Don't hear a lot of businesses suggesting the lowest cost product. regards, Don from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Jan 25 09:46:12 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: hide glue There was or is two schools of thought on violin varnishes, either softor hard. I suspect that the hard varnishes last longer and is just asflexible as the soft varnishes, Fact is luthier's discovered a long timeago that the finish is a major contributor to the instruments ability totransfer the vibrations of the strings to the body of the instrumentpumping air (sound). Shellacs and lacquers are too stiff and crack withflexing but oil varnishes seem to handle the flexing and hold up better.The soft varnishes on violins have a tendency to breakdown quicker thenthe hard and I don't have any idea as to why, they just do. The realbeauty of these old varnishes is they combined the best of both worlds,the non cracking ability of the soft finishes and the stiff flexiblesurface of the hard finishes.----------From: TSmithwick[SMTP:TSmithwick@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 1998 7:14 AM Subject: RE: hide glue In a message dated 1/25/98 2:15:14 PM, you wrote: varnishes to last.>> Patrick - That is what I thought. I have seen some of the oldinstruments andthe varnish did look original. I wonder why the finishes on rods seemto beshorter lived. I suppose it could be related to the increased flexing,or toUV because of using them outside a lot, or temperature extremes due tomorecareless storage and handling? from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 25 09:54:36 1998 KAA02739 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:56:38-0500 Subject: RE: hide glue Tom You are right about finishes - they require proper care in storageand handling. the violins have the stress - I have a piece of ShenandoahValley furniture that dates from 1790's that shows no signs of UV or tempdamage - with original varnish on it. We all know how some people treattheir rods and should we worry about those mindless fools or build for theintelligent angler who appreciates the fine fishing instrument we havebuilt John is at the show this weekend - I would like to hear what he saysabout some "original recipe" varnish formulas. It would be interesting to try some since OSHA and EPA have really changed what we are using today. Iknow I joked you both about him having some 50 gal drums burried in hisbackyard. I would be willing to give it a try on one of my experimental rodsthat I fish with. Same line of thought - I had a silk line that I procured in a trade with who else but Reed that I have refinished. The line is 40+ years old byall acounts. I let Iain Sorrell (the Airflo diustributer) cast it on theYellow Rose.He was amazed and fell in love with it. The point is they are marketing alinegaurenteed not to crack for 10 years - I have others that crack muchsooner.Once they crack the line is a candidate for the trash can and there is no refinishing. Given the fact we are making bamboo rods vice graphite - shouldn'twe think more about classic finishes and classic lines rather thanplastic? I knowthe word "convience" comes up but so much for instant gratification. So Patrick or John - does someone have a formula for one of these classic hard varnish finishes I could try and see what the result will be? I havea rod planned that would be perfect for this experiment. Chris On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:14:34 EST, TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 1/25/98 2:15:14 PM, you wrote: varnishes to last.>> Patrick - That is what I thought. I have seen some of the old instrumentsandthe varnish did look original. I wonder why the finishes on rods seem tobeshorter lived. I suppose it could be related to the increased flexing, or toUV because of using them outside a lot, or temperature extremes due tomorecareless storage and handling? Regards Chris from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Jan 25 10:30:27 1998 KAA07975 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 10:30:25 (8.8.4/8.6.8) with SMTP id KAA08655 for ; Subject: Re: Kindling... Its pretty hard to judge the long term success of a rodbuilding glue from our basement tests. What flexing and measuring we dois a pretty poor imitation of what goes on in "the field", where a rod may sit in a case for 20 years then go thru 100,000 flexesin a season. I've got the same scepticism about tests of temperingmethods. It seems that the modern glues with the long term track records are Resourcinol, urea formaldeyhde, and the epoxies. When we use a type II PVA or a polyurethane or something, we are experimenting.Thats OK, if you're a hobby builder like me, because if my rod fallsapart all I suffer is embarassment. I think polyurethane glues are still in their infancy. Judging fromthe postings on "rec.woodworking", some brands are more troublepronethan others. I've made nodeless splices for 2 rods this winter withGorilla brand polyurethane, and I've encountered no problems so farwith flexing or planing the strips. As I've said before, the amateur scientist in me really enjoys this list, hearing all your opinions and results and then thinking it allthru again.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Jan 25 10:31:13 1998 Subject: Re: hide glue TSmithwick wrote:Patrick - That is what I thought. I have seen some of the old instrumentsandthe varnish did look original. I wonder why the finishes on rods seem tobeshorter lived. I suppose it could be related to the increased flexing, or toUV because of using them outside a lot, or temperature extremes due tomorecareless storage and handling? Tom,What about the fact that the varnish on tips stored in cane tip tubesis usually perfect after many (90+) years, but the butt and mid kept ina cloth bag are all alligatored? Any thoughts?Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Jan 25 10:51:48 1998 Subject: Re: hide glue Chris Bogart wrote:Given the fact we are making bamboo rods vice graphite - shouldn'twe think more about classic finishes and classic lines rather thanplastic? I knowthe word "convience" comes up but so much for instant gratification. Good Idea, Chris! I think that the resurgence in Wooden Boating whichhas occurred since the 70's indicates that people are willing to investsome time in TLC, if they have the satisfaction of working with thebest.Ours is largely a disposable culture. The plastic rods are made withnew models of new materials each year, encouraging anglers to buy a newrod each season or two.Conversely, cane rods were made to last. Forty years ago, it was noshame to be using a 20 year old cane rod made by a good maker. You werenever out of fashion. (Unless the rod sported flip-ring guides.)If the cane rodmakers attempt to re-establish the comtemplativetraditions of dressing the line well before fishing and letting yoursilk line dry out on the grass while you eat a liesurely lunch bystreamside, they will be doing every angler a service, in many ways.Best regards,Reed from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Jan 25 12:10:34 1998 Subject: Re: hide glue In a message dated 1/25/98 4:36:21 PM, you wrote: Reed - I have seen the same thing. In one case I repaired an F.E. Thomasthathad evidently been left in a boat bilge and soaked for quite a while. Thebuttand mid were delaminated and the varnish was whitened and bubbled, butthe tipcame out of it's case looking like new. Maybe it suggests that rods shouldbestored in wooden cases?Patrick- I think Chris has a point. In my own case I brush varnish, and havenot been able to get a first rate finish without rubbing since thegovernmentprotected me with the new formulations. I never thought I would go so farasto make my own, but now I think I might try it if I knew how. from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Sun Jan 25 12:18:44 1998 0000 Subject: ferrule problems what type of epoxy, glue, whatever you use do you recommend forattachingferrules to the blank?? i've built 2 rods and so far each of them have hada glue failure where the ferrule got pulled off the rod while taking thesections apart....i've used Devcon 5min. epoxy on those rods.....should iuse a 45min epoxy or another type?? thanks Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Jan 25 12:26:42 1998 Subject: Re: Kindling... In a message dated 1/24/98 2:50:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,cbogart@shentel.net writes: I know I was more abusive on the strips then any fisherman wouldbe. Anyone can do the tests and see for themselves. I took strips fromthesame culm section - planed a splice and glued using 3 1" spring clampsper splice. To break a splice the best way is lateral pressure. Hold thestrip with the enamel up and fingers on the side and push with thethumbs. I did a somewhat similar test, but geared more towards what wouldactually happen in gluing splines together, not gluing a splice. I tooktwo strips, planed the sides, and glued them together side to side,bound with string and allowed to thoroughly harden. I then removed the string, sanded the excess glue off, then bent them sideways until they broke. This put the greatest shear forces on the glue joint, andif the glue was going to fail this was the way to test it. As I said inmy previous post, of all the glues I've tried, only Dap Weldwood, atype of URAC, failed (other than quick set epoxies, but no one woulduse 5 minute epoxy to glue up a rod). Of all the glues I've tried I would rate long set epoxies and polyurethanesabout equal, resourcinol right up there with them, but the color is adrawback, with Titebond II being okay, but I would use it only wheneasy cleanup, non-toxicity, easy workability, and availability meant more to me than extreme durability. The only problem is I can't tell how long a glue is going to last. 25years, 35 years, 50, a hundred? No way to test that except wait. Darryl Hayashida from RMargiotta@aol.com Sun Jan 25 13:07:04 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule problems Matt: The 5-minute stuff is way too brittle. The longer curing epoxy would bemuchbetter. In the past I used Dow Corning Urethane Bond for ferrules. It's aone part glue that expands slightly when cured and is reatins a smallanountof fllexibility. Never had a failure. I heard they took it off the market backon the market, but I haven't been able to find it in recent years. Recently,I've used the new polyurethane glue on ferrules. It seems to be a goodchoicebut I haven't fished a rod yet with it. Anyone else have experience withpolyurethane glue for ferrules? --Rich from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 25 13:13:56 1998 Subject: Re: Violin varnish? Can you tell me if this is varnish as we think of it or is it Shellac that ison these old instruments?Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 25 13:20:42 1998 Subject: Re: Titebond II. I have a question to ask about using a water based glue such as titebondIIover an epoxy type. Has any1 checked to see how much the sections swellup byusing water based glues over solvent based glues? How much does itchange thetaper?BretAlso what does hide glue do to the tapers , isn't this a water based gluealso? from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 25 13:22:57 1998 OAA06008 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:25:01-0500 Subject: Re: ferrule problems Mark First did you clean then rough up the inside of the ferrule?Second - How snug of a fit did you have between ferrule and rodblank? The above are probably the 2 primary reasons for the failure - notnecessarily the glue itself. It would happen to most glues if there was still flux inside theferrule. Next, try roughing theinside of the ferrule - always reccomend for better bonding. The better the fit means less gap to be filled by the glue. Glue shouldnotbe counted on if there is a large gap for it to fill. The ferrule should besnug not loose when dryfitted. Last - which Devcon 5 minute epoxy? - I use the Devcon highstrength 5 minutethick Gel epoxy. It has a strength of 2500 psi versus 1500 for theclear stuff. I havenot had ferrule failures. Chris On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:18:12 -0500, Matt Leiderman wrote: what type of epoxy, glue, whatever you use do you recommend forattachingferrules to the blank?? i've built 2 rods and so far each of them have hada glue failure where the ferrule got pulled off the rod while taking thesections apart....i've used Devcon 5min. epoxy on those rods.....should iuse a 45min epoxy or another type?? thanks Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Regards Chris from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Jan 25 14:04:24 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 25Jan 1998 15:06:32 -0500 Subject: George Barnes Has anyone heard from George lately? I tried to send him a message on several occasions but never received a response. I hope he is fishing and all is well. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Jan 25 14:04:26 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 25Jan 1998 15:06:32 -0500 Subject: 8'4wt A friend wants me to build him a medium to fast action 8' 4wt. I have settled on the taper by AJ Thramer but I do not know what size ferrule to order. Any other suggestions for the rod, and for the Thramer, what size ferrule? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Jan 25 14:37:58 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Violin varnish? Its a oil varnish made from ( one formula) seed lac (the rawest form ofshellac as it comes from the lac bugs nest in India) propolis (thesubstance honey bees ingest from trees, convert internally and use toseal and glue their hives together)poppy oil or linseed oil and other resins and alcohol. The shop I workedat was envolved with the Catgut Acoustical Society and Harvard to tryand pinpoint just why the instruments made by the great masters were somuch better than the ones made today and one of the things was thevarnish, which it seems they all got from the same varnish maker inCremona Italy. Besides the varnish the other main factor was the agingand seasoning of the wood. It turns out that a violin made from tadayswood takes about thirty years of playing before the starchy caps sealingthe ends of the cell drys, shrinks enough and goes through chemicalchanges-going from short chain molecule to long chain molecule. Thissomething that happens only with time and not heat. As it was explainedto me, you can make jello in the oven and you can make jello in the icebox (a watery form of hide glue) you get a form of jello both ways butthey're totally different from each other. The main problem with makingvarnish is finding some of the resins that go into it--elemi (takesmonths to dry but is very elastic), mastic, gum turpentine resin (byproduct of making turps),gum gamboge, sandarac resin and alizain. Thecombinations are unlimited-the problem is to come up with one that isboth flexible and stiff enough and out one or the other being overpowering. ----------From: Grhghlndr[SMTP:Grhghlndr@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, January 25, 1998 11:04 AM Subject: Re: Violin varnish? Can you tell me if this is varnish as we think of it or is it Shellacthat ison these old instruments?Bret from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Sun Jan 25 15:20:59 1998 0000 Subject: Re: ferrule problems i was using the clear stuff....not sure what the psi was but 1500 soundsright.....honestly i can't remember if i did rough up the ferrule, but iguess i never did :-) i went out out and got some Devcon 30min. stufftoday so i'll give that a try......it has a 2500 psi......so i'll rememberto have a tight fit and to rough up the inside alittle....i'll go give it ago on the 7' 4wt i finished up last weekend.....thanks for the help!! Matt Leiderman At 02:29 PM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote:Mark First did you clean then rough up the inside of the ferrule?Second - How snug of a fit did you have between ferrule and rodblank? The above are probably the 2 primary reasons for the failure - notnecessarily the glue itself. It would happen to most glues if there was still flux inside theferrule. Next, try roughing theinside of the ferrule - always reccomend for better bonding. The better the fit means less gap to be filled by the glue. Glueshould notbe counted on if there is a large gap for it to fill. The ferrule shouldbe snug not loose when dryfitted. Last - which Devcon 5 minute epoxy? - I use the Devcon highstrength 5minutethick Gel epoxy. It has a strength of 2500 psi versus 1500 for theclear stuff. I havenot had ferrule failures. Chris On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:18:12 -0500, Matt Leiderman wrote: what type of epoxy, glue, whatever you use do you recommend forattachingferrules to the blank?? i've built 2 rods and so far each of them havehada glue failure where the ferrule got pulled off the rod while taking thesections apart....i've used Devcon 5min. epoxy on those rods.....should iuse a 45min epoxy or another type?? thanks Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 25 15:26:04 1998 QAA08610 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:28:01-0500 Subject: Re: Titebond II. Bret So is URAC - you cannot escape it (water)? Chris On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 14:14:54 EST, Grhghlndr wrote: I have a question to ask about using a water based glue such as titebondIIover an epoxy type. Has any1 checked to see how much the sections swellup byusing water based glues over solvent based glues? How much does itchange thetaper?BretAlso what does hide glue do to the tapers , isn't this a water based gluealso? Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Jan 25 15:31:52 1998 QAA08717 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:33:56-0500 Subject: Re: ferrule problems Matt Remember to clean - mineral spirits or better yet - Acetone!The key to all gluing is surface preparation. A clean surface free from grease, flux, and oils is imperative. Roughing gives betteradheasion than a smooth surface. Good luck. Chris On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 16:20:14 -0500, Matt Leiderman wrote: i was using the clear stuff....not sure what the psi was but 1500 soundsright.....honestly i can't remember if i did rough up the ferrule, but iguess i never did :-) i went out out and got some Devcon 30min. stufftoday so i'll give that a try......it has a 2500 psi......so i'll rememberto have a tight fit and to rough up the inside alittle....i'll go give it ago on the 7' 4wt i finished up last weekend.....thanks for the help!! Matt Leiderman At 02:29 PM 1/25/98 -0600, you wrote:Mark First did you clean then rough up the inside of the ferrule?Second - How snug of a fit did you have between ferrule and rodblank? The above are probably the 2 primary reasons for the failure - notnecessarily the glue itself. It would happen to most glues if there was still flux inside theferrule. Next, try roughing theinside of the ferrule - always reccomend for better bonding. The better the fit means less gap to be filled by the glue. Glueshould notbe counted on if there is a large gap for it to fill. The ferrule shouldbe snug not loose when dryfitted. Last - which Devcon 5 minute epoxy? - I use the Devcon highstrength 5minutethick Gel epoxy. It has a strength of 2500 psi versus 1500 for theclear stuff. I havenot had ferrule failures. Chris On Sun, 25 Jan 1998 13:18:12 -0500, Matt Leiderman wrote: what type of epoxy, glue, whatever you use do you recommend forattachingferrules to the blank?? i've built 2 rods and so far each of them havehada glue failure where the ferrule got pulled off the rod while taking thesections apart....i've used Devcon 5min. epoxy on those rods.....should iuse a 45min epoxy or another type?? thanks Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Regards Chris Regards Chris from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 25 18:51:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re: ferrule problems I have also used the devcon 5 minute with great success, plus I have usedthegood old heat it up black ferrule cement with no problems. maybe an oilfilminside of ferrule from machining.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Jan 25 18:55:45 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Titebond II. Chris,OK but have you checked to see if there is any surmountable swellinginsections. Just curious as to this causing any problems.Bret from jczimny@dol.net Sun Jan 25 20:00:50 1998 Subject: Re: Hardner Jon Lintvet wrote: Does anyone out there have a idea of what would happen if you usedtoo much hardener?Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-9781It would simply become progressively more flexible until you lost mostof your sheer strength.Zimny from jczimny@dol.net Sun Jan 25 20:15:52 1998 Subject: Re: hide glue Why don't you try getting some Behlen's Rock Hard. Then cut with adrying oil a little. I think Behlen's is about 50% resin. Try cutting to40 then 35% resin. Most spars are around 35% resin.Interesting would be to make some of the mix tung. I don't think tungever really drys. This fact may tend to keep the varnish more "supple"over a longer period.John from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Jan 25 21:17:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planing Forms Dave , I often plane down to .027 or smaller with very little problem ifthe strip is not angled to one side too far in its initial planing. I roughplane on the larger part of the form to get my angles right and then startmytaper. If the strip still overhangs the form too much ?I plane the insidedownso it won't twist the strip in the form when I apply pressure to keep it inthe form. I have not had any trouble binding the strips if I'm careful.Hank. from channer@frontier.net Sun Jan 25 21:18:04 1998 Subject: first rod Dennis;Lord No!!!!!!!, I,m just a lowly nail pounder, what I meant was, I fishwith a rod I made to garrison,s 212 taper. Sorry to mislead. I was down at the Juan againyesterday, those are the most frustrating fish on earth. I caught some, butI still felt like I got skunked. There was a pretty good baetis hatch goingon, but they all floated downstream unmolested by the fish, all af whichwere too busy eating size 52(no misprint) midges. Good luck to you whenyougo. Give me a call when you get here if you need any local info or help orjust to say Hi.John Channer970-259-8220 from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Sun Jan 25 21:32:35 1998 WAA32116 for ; Sun, 25 Jan 1998 22:32:19-0500 Subject: Re: George Barnes At 03:05 PM 1/25/98 +0000, you wrote:Has anyone heard from George lately? I tried to send him a message on several occasions but never received a response. I hope he is fishing and all is well. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 Jon,Talked with George a couple of weeks ago and he told me he was going on atrip. Don't recall the dates. Computer went down with the ice storms andI lost all messages.Sean from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Jan 25 22:24:45 1998 Subject: Re: 8'4wt Jon,Multiply the rod dimension at the ferrule by 64 and you will get theferruledimension in 64ths.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Jan 25 22:27:51 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule problems Matt,I've been using Devcon 2 ton epoxi with good results in over 80 rods, Iletthe ferrules set for 24 hrs. before removing the string and filing theflutes.Hank. from arnold_pc@email.msn.com Sun Jan 25 22:45:59 1998 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:45:27 -0800 SMTPSVC;Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:45:21 -0800 Subject: PVC Tubes vs. Copper for dipping. List, Are there any watchouts or disadvantages of using PVC over copperasthe diptube? Any special cleaning procedures? Thanks in advance....stilllurking on the archives.....Jeff Arnold from arnold_pc@email.msn.com Sun Jan 25 22:50:40 1998 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:50:09 -0800 SMTPSVC;Sun, 25 Jan 1998 20:50:07 -0800 Subject: Hida Tools Star Splitter While looking through the Jan 97 or Feb 97 archives I read a thread on thesplitting of cane. Some of the members mentioned the star splitter fromHidaTools. Has anyone used this tool, and how do you like it? I just receivedmy bamboo froe and I'm waiting on my cane to try it out. Has anyonereceivedany cane from the Demarests? How does it look? Jeff Arnold from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Sun Jan 25 23:13:00 1998 mailfep3-hme1 via smap (KC5.24) Subject: Re: Kindling... type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Yes, I did use URAC in the experiments - it came in the middle - Itappearsto be a "brittle" glue from the results. It did penetrate the caneand when the splice broke it also resulted in pulling fibers apart. Chris:Thanks for the information. I've used URAC since day one -- have neverhad a failure of any kind whatsoever. In 'real life' tests URAC 185 hasnever dissapointed me. I've run some casual tests where the bamboofibers always give way before the adhesive does. I've always suspectedURAC may be brittle -- just messing around with drips from rod glue-upshas shown me that the stuff breaks-up like peanut brittle. This subject of adhesives is fascinating. Especially since, as rodbuilders, all the craftmanship we can bring to the subject falls shortif the adhesive we use falls short. It would be great to have abenchmark study to compare the many alternatives. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rods / http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Mon Jan 26 05:29:45 1998 Subject: RE: Hida Tools Star Splitter I have a 12 segment splitter. I have split four 6' pieces of cane.It works just fine. I wish they had a 24 segment splitter. The Winstonvideo tape shows them splitting 12' pieces of cane into what looks like24 segments. Very fast and slick. -----Original Message-----From: Jeff Arnold [SMTP:arnold_pc@email.msn.com]Sent: Sunday, January 25, 1998 10:54 PM Subject: Hida Tools Star Splitter While looking through the Jan 97 or Feb 97 archives I read a thread onthesplitting of cane. Some of the members mentioned the star splitter from HidaTools. Has anyone used this tool, and how do you like it? I justreceivedmy bamboo froe and I'm waiting on my cane to try it out. Has anyonereceivedany cane from the Demarests? How does it look? Jeff Arnold from angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com Mon Jan 26 06:59:13 1998 1998 13:58:54 +0100env- from (angel@atlantis.neu.sgi.com) (950413.SGI.8.6.12/940406.SGI) NAA02633; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:58:52 +0100 13:58:50 +0100 "RE: Hida Tools Star Splitter" (Jan 26, 5:26am) Subject: FF shops in UK?? Hello I will be in UK during the next 3 days and I was wandering if someoneknow anygood FF shop near Reading (UK) ? Angel Thanks -- ______________________________________________________________________ Angel Contreras email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2Coordinator tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 CortaillodEuropean I/S fax: +41-32-8433909 Switzerland from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Jan 26 08:11:50 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Kindling... I have seen the Gorilla Glue and often wondered about it's durability.Is it used like the Titebond II or would you use it to bind a rodtogether? Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Saturday, January 24, 1998 12:27 PM Subject: Re: Kindling... Never having tried Epon, although a friend of mine gave mesome, Excel polyurethane glue gives you all of the featuresof slow set up time, waterproofness and extreme durablity,and it's a one part, no mixing glue. You have at least acouple hours to straighten and it's totally hardened ina day. Another plus is polyurethane glues are becominga lot more common.I just bought some Pro Bond polyurethane glue made by the Elmer's Glue people.Preliminary tests indicate it's just like the Excel I'vebeen using on the last dozen rods I've made. GorillaGlue is a polyurethane glue also, and is available inall the woodworking stores in my area. One word of caution - wear latex gloves when usingpolyurethane glues. The glue bonds to the top layerof your skin and forms a slick layer that you can'tget off until the skin wears off. Darryl Hayashida from WILHELM.RON@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Mon Jan 26 08:54:35 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:54:13 -0500 Subject: Re: Woodworking bench -Reply Ron, I would be interested in this info. Can you provide the article references? Also, any recommendations on benchheight from other hand planers? Thanks; another ron from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Mon Jan 26 09:04:44 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 26 Jan 1998 10:04:11 -0500 Subject: Re: hide glue J. C. Zimny wrote: Why don't you try getting some Behlen's Rock Hard. Then cut with adrying oil a little. I think Behlen's is about 50% resin. Try cutting to40 then 35% resin. Most spars are around 35% resin.Interesting would be to make some of the mix tung. I don't think tungever really drys. This fact may tend to keep the varnish more "supple"over a longer period.John Alchemists paints and varishes lists finishes prepared from old recipes.I have not tried them, but they might be an interest to others...Their URL is as folloiws (sorry it is not a hot key!) http://www.amberalchemy.com/index.htm from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Jan 26 11:07:35 1998 SVR4) Subject: Glues - what happened to Nyatex Here I am merrily using Nyatex two part epoxy, the 'de riguer' glue if last year's mail is to be believed, and now I see no mention of it during the last series of exchanges on glues. Any one else out there still using Nyatex? Does it have a shelf life problem? Thanks, Thomas from rfairfie@cisco.com Mon Jan 26 11:18:49 1998 Subject: Re: Glues - what happened to Nyatex Thomas, that's all I use. I've had the stuff for over a year, and have nothad any shelf life problems so far. Roger from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Jan 26 09:14:45 1998Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 9:04 -0800 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "Thomas Pindelski" Subject: Glues - what happened to NyatexX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 284 Here I am merrily using Nyatex two part epoxy, the 'de riguer' glue if last year's mail is to be believed, and now I see no mention of it during the last series of exchanges on glues. Any one else out there still using Nyatex? Does it have a shelf life problem? Thanks, Thomas from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Jan 26 11:29:45 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Glues - what happened to Nyatex Thomas Pindelski wrote:Here I am merrily using Nyatex two part epoxy, the 'de riguer'glue..... I've only built one rod so far (working on #'s 2&3) and had goodresults with Nyatex. My question concerning it's use in nodeless rodswould be with the necessary heat setting. Should one heat set once uponsplicing, and then again upon gluing tapered splines? Or, would theinital room temperature curing suffice for the splices until after finaltapering and then heat set the whole thing at once? Any insight wouldbe appreciated, as you can spend a small fortune just trying out all thedifferent adhesives!Perhaps someone like Mr. Zimny who seems to have a great deal ofexperience and insight into adhesives (re: rodmakers page), or Mr.Bogart who champions nodeless construction, might summarize theresultsof this thread on adhesives with special reference to nodeless rods??Harry Boyd from jtien@ptdcs2.intel.com Mon Jan 26 11:38:04 1998 AA23771(5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 26 Jan 199809:37:58 -0800 Subject: Rod Restoration Project Hi, I am in the midst of my first bamboo rod restoration project, and I'd likesome advice on the kinds of finish I can use and their pros and cons... 1. I'd like to use regular wood stain on the rod instead of the varnish; itthat advisable? 2. Do I need to use Tung oil after the stain? Is it necessary? 3. I really like the satin look and feel of bard bamboo. Is there any product out on the market I can use to finish the rod and leave that satin finish alone? One of the reasons I shy away from the varnish is because I don'tparticularlylike the glossy wet look of the finish rod. I'd like to fins another way to waterproof the rod besides varnish. Thanks in advance. Joe from rfairfie@cisco.com Mon Jan 26 11:54:06 1998 JAA13722 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:53:33 - Subject: Re: Rod Restoration Project Joe, I use a mat finish semi-gloss polyurethane varnish. I, too, like thelookand feel of raw bamboo, and this stuff comes close to keeping it after finishing. from what I've read over the past year, bamboo absorbs water out of theairand tung oil will not seal it. I personally have not used it, so cannotcomment from experience. Thanks,Roger from jtien@ptdcs2.intel.com Mon Jan 26 09:45:26 1998Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:37:58 -0800 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Joseph J Tien Subject: Rod Restoration ProjectX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 691 Hi, I am in the midst of my first bamboo rod restoration project, and I'd likesome advice on the kinds of finish I can use and their pros and cons... 1. I'd like to use regular wood stain on the rod instead of the varnish; itthat advisable? 2. Do I need to use Tung oil after the stain? Is it necessary? 3. I really like the satin look and feel of bard bamboo. Is there any product out on the market I can use to finish the rod and leave that satin finish alone? One of the reasons I shy away from the varnish is because I don'tparticularlylike the glossy wet look of the finish rod. I'd like to fins another way to waterproof the rod besides varnish. Thanks in advance. Joe from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Mon Jan 26 12:15:08 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 26 Jan 1998 13:14:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Rod Restoration Project You can also use a woodworking trick. Use the finish that you preferand the rub down to the sheen you desire (when dried). Pumice androtten stone are commonly used abraisives for this. The abraisives,some water or alcohol, and a felt block are all you need. This way, ifyou use something like the rockhard table top compound, (a very highgloss), you can rub it back to a satin finish. I would check with thelist before you tried this on just any finish. Roger Fairfield wrote: Joe, I use a mat finish semi-gloss polyurethane varnish. I, too, like thelookand feel of raw bamboo, and this stuff comes close to keeping it afterfinishing. from what I've read over the past year, bamboo absorbs water out of theairand tung oil will not seal it. I personally have not used it, so cannotcomment from experience. Thanks,Roger from jtien@ptdcs2.intel.com Mon Jan 26 09:45:26 1998Date: Mon, 26 Jan 1998 09:37:58 -0800 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Joseph J Tien Subject: Rod Restoration ProjectX-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CRENContent-Length: 691 Hi, I am in the midst of my first bamboo rod restoration project, and I'dlikesome advice on the kinds of finish I can use and their pros and cons... 1. I'd like to use regular wood stain on the rod instead of the varnish; itthat advisable? 2. Do I need to use Tung oil after the stain? Is it necessary? 3. I really like the satin look and feel of bard bamboo. Is there anyproduct out on the market I can use to finish the rod and leave thatsatinfinish alone? One of the reasons I shy away from the varnish is because I don'tparticularlylike the glossy wet look of the finish rod. I'd like to fins another wayto waterproof the rod besides varnish. Thanks in advance. Joe from CALucker@aol.com Mon Jan 26 13:19:38 1998 Subject: Re: PVC Tubes vs. Copper for dipping. Use what is called CVPC instead of PVC. CVPC is made by BF Goodrich. Theirscientists found a way to add an additional Chorine molecule or somethingtomake PVC resist hot water, solvents, and becoming brittle when old orfrozen.Chris from CALucker@aol.com Mon Jan 26 13:23:10 1998 Subject: Re: Hide Glue I use the hide glue beads half the time I build rods. You cannot use theliquid hide glue, the shear strength is not all there. The liquid hide glueis not much stronger than Elmers carpenter glue.Hide glue is very easy to use as long as you have a fancy electric pot.Straighting cured sections is a snap. Don't worry about moisture makingtheseams open. Varnish protects adequately.Hide glue is necessary to use if you are copying the tapers of a rod that isbuilt with hide glue. Urac, resorcenals, and especially epoxies add theirowninfluence to how a rod section will deflect. Chris Lucker from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Jan 26 13:27:57 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Restoration Project At 09:37 26/01/98 -0800, you wrote: Hi, I am in the midst of my first bamboo rod restoration project, and I'd likesome advice on the kinds of finish I can use and their pros and cons... 1. I'd like to use regular wood stain on the rod instead of the varnish; itthat advisable? 2. Do I need to use Tung oil after the stain? Is it necessary? 3. I really like the satin look and feel of bard bamboo. Is there any product out on the market I can use to finish the rod and leave that satin finish alone? One of the reasons I shy away from the varnish is because I don'tparticularlylike the glossy wet look of the finish rod. I'd like to fins another way to waterproof the rod besides varnish. Thanks in advance. Joe Joe, Use a gloss finish if you intend to dip your rod. The gloss finish has noparticles or crap in it requiring the container to be stirred often.Break up the gloss finish with a product that the auto painters use justprior to painting the car. The product I use is called Final Step.Use tung oil ONLY if it comparable with the final finish covering you use. regards, Don from CALucker@aol.com Mon Jan 26 13:30:37 1998 Subject: Re: Violin varnish? It is more like a shellac and lacquer with some linsead oil. You cannotreally use a tung oil varnish on a musical instrument because the varnishwillnever get crisp enough to allow the tone woods in the instrument toresonate.A varnish finish such as those we use on fly rods will create a deadsoundinginstrument.Chris from CALucker@aol.com Mon Jan 26 13:30:44 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Restoration Project from your questions, it doesn't sound like you are doing a restorationproject. It sounds like you want to customize an old rod. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jan 26 15:30:18 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 26Jan 1998 16:30:32 -0500 Subject: Re: 8'4wt Ok...I understand the ferrule dimensions if you have the piece in front of you....however...for an 8', looking at the dimension sheet, there is no # for the 48" mark. I am trying to order ahead. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Mon Jan 26 15:36:37 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 26 Jan 98 16:21:11 EST Subject: Purchasing ferrules With a friend rod builder, I'm about to order a bunch of Super Z ferrules from Classic Sporting Enterprizes. We need a couple of other folks to goin with us so the total combined order exceeds 500. This entitles us to a40% discount. For example, a 14/64 3-pc set would cost about $26.00 (a$16savings over retail). The only additional cost is shipping. Pleasecontact me off-list if you're interested and let me know roughly the # ofsets you'd like. The goal is to cooperate on a large purchase so we allcan benefit. I'd like to make the order within a week or so. --Bob. from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Jan 26 16:03:37 1998 Subject: got ejected! I was off the list for a couple of days. A glitch somewhere I suppose. I have been practice planing on my newly made forms and I must say I amexcited about the preliminary results. I thought I had a razor edge on my plane blade but there is nothing likeslicing off .001 from a strip without lifting at nodes or hanging up togive you a little confidence. Demarest sent a letter yesterday saying the cane was sent by UPS on the19th. It shouldn't be long now. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jfoster@gte.net Mon Jan 26 16:32:10 1998 Subject: Re: 8'4wt mac-creator="4D4F5353" Jon Tell me exactly which rod your looking at , give me the no. as it'sposted and i'll mail you the whole curve, by the no.s, by the inches..no problem regards Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Mon Jan 26 16:39:11 1998 Subject: Re: Glues - what happened to Nyatex mac-creator="4D4F5353" Tom I think several of us ard using Nyatex, but the issue can get awfullypolitical if it wasn't specifically tested.. by the way, I've found thatif i re-roll (?) the glued blanks on fresh paper about and hr. or soafter gluing, i can unwrap the binding thread 24/4 at the 16 hr markwhout much problem, makes sanding a little easier, don't have to file. regards Jerry from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jan 26 17:03:01 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 26Jan 1998 18:01:17 -0500 Subject: Re: PVC Tubes vs. Copper for dipping. I am sure everyone will want to know where you can find this material..the CVPC.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Jan 26 17:03:13 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 26Jan 1998 18:01:17 -0500 Subject: Flutes....Filling Splitter" (Jan 26, 5:26am) How does one fill the flutes to make a better transition? I can imagine several ways, however, I would love to hear some suggestions. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jan 26 17:10:50 1998 Subject: Re: Glues - what happened to Nyatex Tom -Yes there are many makers using Nyatex glue - If you missed it there isnowa method of rebinding the glued strips at 16-24 hour air drying(temperaturedependant) - before thermo steeing - this allows the thread being removedafter heat curing and solves the need to file or sand the thread off. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Jan 26 17:11:13 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Violin varnish? If you look at the ingredients on Behlens Rock Hard, The varnish thatthe majority of violin makers use today, you will find that the oil thatis in it is tung oil and that it has the same drying properties aslinseed oil, the only way to get either oil to get hard and glossy bythemselves is the same way the old rifle makers used and that was to rubit on vigorously with the palm of your hand so the heat generated fromit dries it out. Al non urethane varnishes are made of resins, dryersand solvents. One of the resins is seed lac which doesn't become ashellac until it has been refined and had wax and other organicingredients removed.Either linseed oil (boiled) tung oil, eitherregular (short chain molecule) or polymerized (long chain molecule) canbe used successfully to make a crisp varnish of instrument grade I havesuccessfully used both and could find no difference in hardness in thefinishes since neither one is put in in quantities to interfere with thedrying of the varnish. ----------From: CALucker@aol.com[SMTP:CALucker@aol.com] Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 11:06 AM Subject: Re: Violin varnish? It is more like a shellac and lacquer with some linsead oil. Youcannotreally use a tung oil varnish on a musical instrument because thevarnish willnever get crisp enough to allow the tone woods in the instrument toresonate.A varnish finish such as those we use on fly rods will create a deadsoundinginstrument.Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 26 17:39:04 1998 SAA07247; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:38:57 -0500 Subject: Re: 8'4wt D8B4A59D1F3E2A6397DBA582" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- D8B4A59D1F3E2A6397DBA582 Jon If you ran the taper through one of the various versions of Wayne'sprogramyou can get the # at 48". Chris Jon Lintvet wrote: Ok...I understand the ferrule dimensions if you have the piece infront of you....however...for an 8', looking at the dimension sheet,there is no # for the 48" mark. I am trying to order ahead. Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781 --------------D8B4A59D1F3E2A6397DBA582 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------D8B4A59D1F3E2A6397DBA582-- from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 26 17:40:11 1998 SAA07508; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:39:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Kindling... 46A3A0CFA62F465C87344A0E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 46A3A0CFA62F465C87344A0E Joe You are right. I was not trying to down play URAC - each rodmakerneeds to go with what they feel comfortable with. I chose what I use But,there is not really a good pratical reference for that info. Most of it issecondhand information. Chris Joe Loverti wrote: Yes, I did use URAC in the experiments - it came in the middle - Itappearsto be a "brittle" glue from the results. It did penetrate the caneand when the splice broke it also resulted in pulling fibers apart. Chris:Thanks for the information. I've used URAC since day one -- have neverhad a failure of any kind whatsoever. In 'real life' tests URAC 185 hasnever dissapointed me. I've run some casual tests where the bamboofibers always give way before the adhesive does. I've always suspectedURAC may be brittle -- just messing around with drips from rod glue-upshas shown me that the stuff breaks-up like peanut brittle. This subject of adhesives is fascinating. Especially since, as rodbuilders, all the craftmanship we can bring to the subject falls shortif the adhesive we use falls short. It would be great to have abenchmark study to compare the many alternatives. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rods / http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods --------------46A3A0CFA62F465C87344A0E begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------46A3A0CFA62F465C87344A0E-- from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 26 17:48:04 1998 SAA09634; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:47:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Glues - what happened to Nyatex 30D322311DE002B6D304D680" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 30D322311DE002B6D304D680 Harry I went away from Nyatex because of the heat incompatability withTitebond-II.Real problems come in straightening when the titebond reaches itsthermaldeflectiontemp of 170 degrees and Nyatex has a long way to go - you can break asplice real easy at that point. I reccomend people using compatable glues - ifsomeonewants to do an all URAC nodeless - fine - that will work with minimunproblems. The other downside with Nyatex has been trying to file the binding cordoff afterthe heat treatment - real pain in the butt - Wayne now says to remove theold cordand rebind and that problem is minimized. Chris Harry Boyd wrote: Thomas Pindelski wrote:Here I am merrily using Nyatex two part epoxy, the 'de riguer'glue..... I've only built one rod so far (working on #'s 2&3) and had goodresults with Nyatex. My question concerning it's use in nodeless rodswould be with the necessary heat setting. Should one heat set once uponsplicing, and then again upon gluing tapered splines? Or, would theinital room temperature curing suffice for the splices until after finaltapering and then heat set the whole thing at once? Any insight wouldbe appreciated, as you can spend a small fortune just trying out all thedifferent adhesives!Perhaps someone like Mr. Zimny who seems to have a great deal ofexperience and insight into adhesives (re: rodmakers page), or Mr.Bogart who champions nodeless construction, might summarize theresultsof this thread on adhesives with special reference to nodeless rods??Harry Boyd --------------30D322311DE002B6D304D680 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------30D322311DE002B6D304D680-- from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Jan 26 17:54:26 1998 SAA11342; Mon, 26 Jan 1998 18:54:23 -0500 Subject: Re: hide glue EE223CA48D39B8CD979E142F" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- EE223CA48D39B8CD979E142F John Interesting site - just down the road from me - thanks for info. Chris John A. Whitaker wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Why don't you try getting some Behlen's Rock Hard. Then cut with adrying oil a little. I think Behlen's is about 50% resin. Try cutting to40 then 35% resin. Most spars are around 35% resin.Interesting would be to make some of the mix tung. I don't think tungever really drys. This fact may tend to keep the varnish more "supple"over a longer period.John Alchemists paints and varishes lists finishes prepared from old recipes.I have not tried them, but they might be an interest to others...Their URL is as folloiws (sorry it is not a hot key!) http://www.amberalchemy.com/index.htm --------------EE223CA48D39B8CD979E142F begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------EE223CA48D39B8CD979E142F-- from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Jan 26 19:04:24 1998 Subject: Re: 8'4wt Jon;What rod are you trying to build?GEM from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Jan 26 19:32:03 1998 Subject: Re: Planing strips Carsten-In reading your post about using both hands to stabilize the plane. I dropmy ring finger and little finger to the edge of the forms to act as an outrigger to keep the plane from wabbling. Obviously you would want tosoften theedge of the forms so as not to cut your fingers. Another factor is thesharpness of the plane system - the plane should cut with little effort - ifyou find yourself having to push hard to make the plane cut there issomethingwrong - usually a dull blade or flipped burr at blades edge. Wayne from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Jan 26 20:40:04 1998 Subject: More Kindling Last week I posted a problem I had with a broken strip. I asked if it wassimply a bad strip or poor technique. Turns out to be technique. During thenode flattening and straightening I was too aggressive in my heat gunningofthe nodes. So much so that I charred the pith. This greatly weakened thepowerfibers and the strip snapped easily as I waved it in the air. I then tried an experiment where I took a strip and cut out three nodes. Iheat treated one as I had originally, charring and all, then flattened in avise. The second I treated much more gently, with almost no color changefromthe heat then flattened. The last node I left untreated and flattened in thevise with the same pressure used on the other two. After everything hadcooledto room temperture I then bent each strip to failure. The aggressively treated node broke at the node with a straight acrossbreak.There was no splintering of the cane fibers. The gently treated node andtheuntreated node did not break. The cane strip broke away from the nodewith thecane splintering. Needless to say I am now preparing to split a new culm and start theprocessagain ( not enough useable strips from the first culm for a second rod). All part of the learning process. Mark Cole from DRinker370@aol.com Mon Jan 26 20:42:14 1998 Subject: Help I began the process of making plane forms today and found some curvatureinthe 3/4 cold rolled steel bars. What is the best way to deal with thissituation? The deflection is only about 1/8 inch. from DRinker370@aol.com Mon Jan 26 21:28:28 1998 Subject: Planing forms I have begun the process of creating metal plane forms for the first time .The 3/4 inch bar I purchased today is bent slightly about 1/8 inch over the62inch length. What is the best way to deal with this situation? from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Jan 26 23:19:47 1998 Subject: Re: Hida Tools Star Splitter Olaf, do you think that you could bring and demonstrate this at the "GrandRiver" gathering in May? ----------From: Borge, Olaf A. Subject: RE: Hida Tools Star SplitterDate: Monday, January 26, 1998 6:26 AM I have a 12 segment splitter. I have split four 6' pieces of cane.It works just fine. I wish they had a 24 segment splitter. The Winstonvideo tape shows them splitting 12' pieces of cane into what looks like24 segments. Very fast and slick. -----Original Message-----From: Jeff Arnold [SMTP:arnold_pc@email.msn.com]Sent: Sunday, January 25, 1998 10:54 PM Subject: Hida Tools Star Splitter While looking through the Jan 97 or Feb 97 archives I read a thread onthesplitting of cane. Some of the members mentioned the star splitter from HidaTools. Has anyone used this tool, and how do you like it? I justreceivedmy bamboo froe and I'm waiting on my cane to try it out. Has anyonereceivedany cane from the Demarests? How does it look? Jeff Arnold from channer@frontier.net Mon Jan 26 23:19:58 1998 Subject: ferrule size Jon;If you have a taper you're working from, simply convert the 50" dimensionto 64ths.This should be close enough to size the ferrule, which should besized up to avoid taking off too much bamboo when fitting the ferrule. I'mactually very surprized that I,ve never seen mention on the list or in thearchives of one of the most usefull tools that I have used so far,namelymyConstruction Master calculator. With this calculator you can convert fromdecimal inches to fractions with the press of a button. Also, by using therise, run, and diagonal functions for figuring rafter lengths you can solveany combination of triangle dimension, which I found invaluable when Iwasbuilding my forms. I simply measured the width of the triangle file I usedand bysolving for the WIDTH of the groove at the desired depth, I was ableto set the forms so that when the file quit cutting I was at the desireddepth. It was a great help to someone as mathematically challenged as Iam.All disclaimers apply, just a carpenter with a fancy calculator.John Channer from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Jan 27 03:27:35 1998 ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 09:32:19 GMT Subject: Re: FF shops in UK?? At 13:58 26/01/98 +0100, you wrote:Hello I will be in UK during the next 3 days and I was wandering if someoneknow anygood FF shop near Reading (UK) ? Angel Thanks -- ______________________________________________________________________ Angel Contreras email: angel@neu.sgi.com Silicon Graphics Desktop Software vmail: 56758 ch. des Rochettes 2Coordinator tel: +41-32-8433600 CH-2016 CortaillodEuropean I/S fax: +41- 32-8433909 Switzerland Angel Reading is very close to Newbury, where lurks the amazing rod makerEdwardBarder. He's not at all interested in talking for talking sake, because he is aworking rod maker, and time is money. But, if you're in the market for thebest fishing rod in the world, and can afford the money, and don't mindstanding in line - then you should make an appointment with him. For God'ssake don't just turn up at his workshop because he'll likely be ruder thanyou can believe. Edward Barder RodsHam MillLondon RoadNewburyNr. ReadingBerkshire RG13 2BUTelephone 01635.552916 ( from Britain) ( from elsewhere leave off theinitial 0) The Orvis shop is in Stockbridge, a few miles further south in Hampshire.It's British run, and has plenty of stock. There WILL be a FF shop in Reading too, if you're just in need of bits andpieces. Just ask a taxi driver in Reading to take you there. John Cooper (England) from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Jan 27 05:01:25 1998 Subject: RE: Hida Tools Star Splitter Ted John Knott,Your email address returned my note to you as : I thought about attending the "Grand River" gathering but will onlyattend the June gathering in Grayling. I will bring the star splitterthere. -----Original Message-----From: ted john knott [SMTP:teekay35@interlynx.net]Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 11:16 PM Subject: Re: Hida Tools Star Splitter Olaf, do you think that you could bring and demonstrate this at the"GrandRiver" gathering in May? ----------From: Borge, Olaf A. Subject: RE: Hida Tools Star SplitterDate: Monday, January 26, 1998 6:26 AM I have a 12 segment splitter. I have split four 6' pieces of cane.It works just fine. I wish they had a 24 segment splitter. TheWinstonvideo tape shows them splitting 12' pieces of cane into what lookslike24 segments. Very fast and slick. -----Original Message-----From: Jeff Arnold [SMTP:arnold_pc@email.msn.com]Sent: Sunday, January 25, 1998 10:54 PM Subject: Hida Tools Star Splitter While looking through the Jan 97 or Feb 97 archives I read athread onthesplitting of cane. Some of the members mentioned the star splitter from HidaTools. Has anyone used this tool, and how do you like it? I justreceivedmy bamboo froe and I'm waiting on my cane to try it out. Hasanyonereceivedany cane from the Demarests? How does it look? Jeff Arnold ----- Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: interlynx.net]: host not found) The original message was received at Tue, 27 Jan 1998 05:56:48 -0500 from wolf [204.50.196.17] !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! NOTICE OF FAILED MAIL DELIVERY ATTEMPT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ****************************************************************************** Your attempt to send a message has failed. The details of attempt andthe error message are listed below. If you need help sending the message, ordecoding the error messages, please send an e-mail tohelp@interlynx.net,or call (905)524-5969. ****************************************************************************** ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors ----- ----- Transcript of session follows -----550 ... Host unknown (Name server:interlynx.net]: host not found) ATT00901.ATT Name: ATT00901.ATTType: unspecified type (application/octet- stream)Encoding: x-uuencode ----- Subject: FW: Hida Tools Star Splitter Ted,I considered going to the Grand River meeting, but it looks like myschedule won't allow it. I will bring it to the Grayling gathering in June. ----- Original Message-----From: ted john knott [SMTP:teekay35@interlynx.net]Sent: Monday, January 26, 1998 11:16 PM Subject: Re: Hida Tools Star Splitter Olaf, do you think that you could bring and demonstrate this at the"GrandRiver" gathering in May? ----------From: Borge, Olaf A. Subject: RE: Hida Tools Star SplitterDate: Monday, January 26, 1998 6:26 AM I have a 12 segment splitter. I have split four 6' pieces of cane.It works just fine. I wish they had a 24 segment splitter. TheWinstonvideo tape shows them splitting 12' pieces of cane into what lookslike24 segments. Very fast and slick. -----Original Message-----From: Jeff Arnold [SMTP:arnold_pc@email.msn.com]Sent: Sunday, January 25, 1998 10:54 PM Subject: Hida Tools Star Splitter While looking through the Jan 97 or Feb 97 archives I read athread onthesplitting of cane. Some of the members mentioned the star splitter from HidaTools. Has anyone used this tool, and how do you like it? I justreceivedmy bamboo froe and I'm waiting on my cane to try it out. Hasanyonereceivedany cane from the Demarests? How does it look? Jeff Arnold from channer@frontier.net Tue Jan 27 06:40:56 1998 Subject: calc Jerry;Sorry to have to let you down, but it has to be bought. It's a hand heldcalculator that you can get at any good lumber yard or tool store. Itsprimary use is for doing ft& in. calculations for the construction businessand has special keys for figuring rafter lengths, stair dimensions, etc.,which are nothing more than trangles.You can use these features tocalculate any dimension of any size or angle or hypotenuse of anytriangle,plus you can work in any direction. I use it alot when splittingif I've split too close, I can find the width dimensionI need at a givendepth dimensionright at my work bench. I'm sure all you computer geniusescan do all this on your computers, but I'm lucky to be able to get intomine,let alone anything more complicated. I can also use it in the shop,which is outside, so I don't have to run back inside every time I need touse it. The biggest drawback is the price,around $80.00 the last time Ilooked, I had mine for work anyway. If you want to check one out, most ofthe bigger lumber yards I've been in have them on display at thecontractors desk and usually have one out for the customers to try.John Channer from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Tue Jan 27 07:42:58 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Tue, 27 Jan 98 08:41:59 EST Subject: Re: Glues - what happened to Nyatex Thomas, I am still using Nyatex. My last batch is prob. almost two yearsold and I see no aging effects. No percepitble (visual) changes inconsistency either. I wouldn't use anything else. Long pot life,exceptional strength, totally waterproof. My onlyreservation/recommendation, is to use a VOC (volatile organic compound)mask: the fumes are pretty toxic. At 09:04 AM 1/26/98 -0800, you wrote:Here I am merrily using Nyatex two part epoxy, the 'de riguer' glue if lastyear's mail is to be believed, and now I see no mention of it during thelast series of exchanges on glues. Any one else out there still using Nyatex? Does it have a shelf lifeproblem? Thanks, Thomas Prof. Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Literature and LanguageCentral Michigan University (Mark.M.Freed@cmich.edu) from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Jan 27 07:54:42 1998 Subject: Re: Planing forms In a message dated 1/27/98 4:22:16 AM, you wrote: The condition you are describing is called camber. I would try arrangingthebars so that the curves oppose each other. () Then clamp them in thecenter.If you can bring them into contact with each other with minimal force,buildthe forms that way. Just make sure you can clamp the bars together insuch away that the top and bottom surfaces of the doubled bars are aligned andyouwill be fine. See Tom Penrose's web site for some very thoroughinstructions. from jerry.snider@UC.Edu Tue Jan 27 08:40:04 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, Subject: heat treating oven Having studied John McAnulty's plans for his excellent heat gun oven gotmeto thinking. So I took Frank Nunneman's heat gun oven plan, added 2 inchesof insulation and an additional outside pipe, a removable elbow where thebamboo is inserted, and walla! an oven that works standing upright orlaying on its side (using two 1 x 6 pieces with the radius cut out to matchthe radius of the oven). Using the Sears pro heat gun, the oven heats to350 F in about 4 minutes, holds the temp at a heat gun setting of 6.5 (on ascale of 15) and has a negligible temp differential of + or - 2 deg. Theoutside pipe still gets warm (hot?) to the touch, but only hot enough toget your attention but not a burn. Jerry Snider from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Tue Jan 27 08:41:34 1998 09:42:33 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: Glues - what happened to Nyatex Jerry,Can you expound on this a bit. Sounds like it saves some trouble. Is the re-rolling to absorb off excess glue or does it just fracture the glue in the thread to allow removal or is there something else?Jon McAnulty from JMennen473@aol.com Tue Jan 27 09:44:16 1998 Subject: Re: 8'4wt Geo: 8 ft 5wt para 15. Ordered sht ln - will pick up on friday AM and deliver. Is that OK???? john m. 1/27 10:35 AM from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue Jan 27 09:50:07 1998 SVR4) Subject: Nyatex Thank you to everyone who responded to my Q whether Nyatex is still 'permitted'. Consensus seems to be its OK for regular, non-nodeless construction, and as the 2 quarts I bought a year ago look like a lifetime supply, I'm beginning to feel good again. BTW, on the machining front, I lauded Machinery's Handbook a while backas the 'bible' for machinists. Pair it with Karl Hans Moltrecht's 2 volume treatise on machining (lathes, mills, grinders, you name it) which is very clearly written, superbly illustrated and hard bound to survive the rigors of the work environment, and you have most of what you need. ENCO hasit, disounted. Under $100 for some 1,000 pages with lots of photographs. Recommended. Thomas from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Jan 27 10:27:31 1998 Subject: Re: 8'4wt John;Friday is fine.Will give you tapers when I see you.Let me know whatferrules you want. George from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Jan 27 11:46:25 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 27Jan 1998 12:48:19 -0500 Subject: Para 15 Is the Paul Young Para 15 on the taper archive a 4wt? Anyone built it?Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Jan 27 12:25:34 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) ; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:01:42 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Planing strips ----------Wayne wrote Carsten-In reading your post about using both hands to stabilize the plane. Idropmy ring finger and little finger to the edge of the forms to act as anoutrigger to keep the plane from wabbling. Obviously you would want tosoften theedge of the forms so as not to cut your fingers. Another factor is thesharpness of the plane system - the plane should cut with little effort -ifyou find yourself having to push hard to make the plane cut there issomethingwrong - usually a dull blade or flipped burr at blades edge. Wayne Through trial and error I've reached the same conclusions as You. Myremarks about stable planing simply refers to the fact that I haverejectedthe smaller planes, finding them hard to keep steady. I use a StanleyH1204which is some 10 inches long and ment for two handed planing.To me thetwohanded plane gives more control. I have tuned the plane (flattening thesole and other little tricks). I use a smear of the stuff, candles are madeof on the sole of the plane, making planing smooooth. I do agree with Your remarks about keeping the blade sharp. The ScarySharpsystem for sharpening blades can be found onhttp://www.mv.com/ipusers/gunterman/SCARY.HTM#condensed. Use itmyself anddo recommend it. Best regards Carsten from Canerods@aol.com Tue Jan 27 13:19:16 1998 Subject: Re: PVC Tubes vs. Copper for dipping. In a message dated 98-01-26 18:18:26 EST, you write: Jon, I used black ABS for my dip tube - works fine. Available at most hardwarestores too. Don Burns PS - CPVC is nasty stuff - don't ever try to heat it to the melting point! Ifmachining it, keep a good air flow around the lathe too. from rfairfie@cisco.com Tue Jan 27 13:20:23 1998 LAA29292 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 11:19:41 - Subject: Re: Para 15 Jon, I built it, managed to damage the cane in heat treating, but tapedon guides and a reel anyway to try it out. It casts a 5 wt double taper likea rocket. Thanks,Roger from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Jan 27 09:48:05 1998Date: Tue, 27 Jan 1998 12:46:54 +0000 Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: "Jon Lintvet" Subject: Para 15MIME-Version: 1.0Content-transfer-encoding: 7BITX-mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v2.54)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Is the Paul Young Para 15 on the taper archive a 4wt? Anyone built it?Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from CALucker@aol.com Tue Jan 27 13:51:13 1998 Subject: Re: PVC Tubes vs. Copper for dipping. You can find CVPC in most any home improvement store or hardware store. CPVClooks like ordinary PVC except it is creamy white rather than stark whiteandwill go by the name Flow Guard Gold. It will have black and yellowmarkingsrather than the pink used on PVC.CPVC may be difficult to find in California because the State does notallowCPVC to be used for potable water.Chris from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 27 14:04:45 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size Take the 45" measurement, subtract it from the 50" measurement, divide by 5 (the distance from 45 to 50). This is the diameter change per inch. Since you are looking for the 48" measurement, which is two inches from the 50" measurement, take the diameter change per inch, multiply by two and subtract it form the 50" measurement. This isn't meant to be a flame or anything, but isn't it obvious how tofigure this out? Or am I turning into the list curmudgeon? Darryl Hayashida from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Tue Jan 27 14:17:27 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: ferrule size Tut, tut, Darryl. Linear interpolation of a non-linear function.....---------- Subject: Re: ferrule size Take the 45" measurement, subtract it from the 50" measurement,divide by 5 (the distance from 45 to 50). This is the diameter changeper inch. Since you are looking for the 48" measurement, which is twoinches from the 50" measurement, take the diameter change per inch,multiply by two and subtract it form the 50" measurement. This isn't meant to be a flame or anything, but isn't it obvious how tofigure this out? Or am I turning into the list curmudgeon? Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Jan 27 15:24:20 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: ferrule size keep in mind EVERYBODY has a brain fart once in a while!! ----------From: Thomas Pindelski[SMTP:ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com] Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 12:15 PM Subject: Re: ferrule size Tut, tut, Darryl. Linear interpolation of a non-linear function.....---------- From: SalarFly Subject: Re: ferrule sizeDate: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 2:59PM Take the 45" measurement, subtract it from the 50" measurement,divide by 5 (the distance from 45 to 50). This is the diameter changeper inch. Since you are looking for the 48" measurement, which is twoinches from the 50" measurement, take the diameter change per inch,multiply by two and subtract it form the 50" measurement. This isn't meant to be a flame or anything, but isn't it obvious howtofigure this out? Or am I turning into the list curmudgeon? Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Jan 27 16:09:39 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size In a message dated 1/27/98 12:21:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com writes: Tut, tut, Darryl. Linear interpolation of a non-linear function..... It will be linear between two adjacent stations..... Darryl Hayashida from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Jan 27 16:44:20 1998 Subject: Re: Woodworking bench The Taunton press has an excellent book entitled "The Workbench Book" byScott Landis (I think) alos, Lee Valley Tools in Canada sell Veritas Benchplans (cheap!) Try Garret Wade in the U.S. JBAt 07:57 AM 1/23/98 -0600, you wrote:Anybody know any sites with instructions or plans for building a woodworkers bench? I'd be very interested to know of it if one exists. Thanks, Rick from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Jan 27 16:44:25 1998 Subject: Re: Veritas Scraping Plane Insert I DON'T THINK THAT THE INSERT IS APPROPRIATE FOR BAMBOOTHICKNESSING. ITFIT'S IN A #4 BLOCK PLANE AND IS SIMPLY A SMALL CABINET SCRAPERTYPE BLADEAND IS ABOUT 1/4 THE THICKNESS OF THE LIE NIELSON. JB At 12:49 AM 1/23/98 +0100, you wrote: To all rodmakers Anyone who knows anything about the Veritas Scraping Plane Insert,wouldYou please share the knowledge with me? The device is shown in theJapanWoodworker catalog, page 41. All comments, be they positive or negative,are welcomed, including experience re. the quality of products fromVeritas. Best regards Carsten from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jan 27 16:44:55 1998 Subject: Re: calc mac-creator="4D4F5353" Hi JohnI've seen them advertised before, i thought maybe it was a pc thing.. jerry from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jan 27 17:11:51 1998 Subject: Re: Glues - what happened to Nyatex mac-creator="4D4F5353" Hi Jon..all I do the second rolling without gloves.. and yes i'd say it just wicksthe excess glue off.it also appears to spread, smear, it so its notlumped around the threads. The viscosity is a lot different after aboutan hr.It started over my inability to get one of my sections straight. ihappened to notice that the thread didn't look totally submerged inadhesive and just tried pulling on it. i've tried it on about six rodsnow and it makes the sanding process a lot easier, and quicker.occasionally the thread will catch and break, but it's no big deal tograb the end with a scalpel and continue. White viniger cleans the handsand there you are, making dust. not a big deal. but you don't have to spend the time right out ot thebinder trying to get it perfectly straight when everything is all gooieand slippery. give it a try. Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jan 27 17:35:01 1998 Subject: Re: Glues - what happened to Nyatex mac-creator="4D4F5353" clarification i don't remove the thread till after heat curing jer from jfoster@gte.net Tue Jan 27 17:55:45 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size mac-creator="4D4F5353" What's a Casnovia..do they have mail delevery? Jer from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jan 27 18:03:03 1998 TAA18032; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 19:02:52 -0500 Subject: Re: calc 81782C4C7A61FA82BA00CC83" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 81782C4C7A61FA82BA00CC83 Jerry I have been playing around with various things lately - there issources forJava applets for calculators - some are very impressive and would do thedecimalto fraction conversion - another upgrade to your homepage to bring itinto the1998's (he he). Start the trail at http://www.developer.com and it willleadto this repository:http://www.developer.com/directories/pages/dir.java.html andone of the better ones is at:http://www.megacalculator.com/Ca_start.htmA nifty upgrade - with a few modifications of source it would besuper-mega-ferrule-calculator. Chris Jerry Foster wrote: Hi JohnI've seen them advertised before, i thought maybe it was a pc thing.. jerry --------------81782C4C7A61FA82BA00CC83 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------81782C4C7A61FA82BA00CC83-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Jan 27 18:56:25 1998 Subject: Re:Dipping Tubes At 14:43 27/01/98 EST, you wrote:You can find CVPC in most any home improvement store or hardwarestore. CPVClooks like ordinary PVC except it is creamy white rather than stark whiteandwill go by the name Flow Guard Gold. It will have black and yellowmarkingsrather than the pink used on PVC.CPVC may be difficult to find in California because the State does notallowCPVC to be used for potable water.Chris Guys, You might want to try aluminum conduit available from your localelectricalshop. Have used it for years. The top is threaded to accept a brass 1 1/2"ball valve and the bottom has a steel cap. Works great. It's not effected finish. Use a harsh washing soap and some elbow grease. Cleans up well. regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Jan 27 18:56:29 1998 Subject: Re: Nyatex Tom, Does ENCO have a homepage? Don At 07:48 27/01/98 -0800, you wrote:Thank you to everyone who responded to my Q whether Nyatex is still 'permitted'. Consensus seems to be its OK for regular, non-nodeless construction, and as the 2 quarts I bought a year ago look like a lifetime supply, I'm beginning to feel good again. BTW, on the machining front, I lauded Machinery's Handbook a while backas the 'bible' for machinists. Pair it with Karl Hans Moltrecht's 2 volume treatise on machining (lathes, mills, grinders, you name it) which is very clearly written, superbly illustrated and hard bound to survive the rigors of the work environment, and you have most of what you need. ENCO hasit, disounted. Under $100 for some 1,000 pages with lots of photographs. Recommended. Thomas from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Jan 27 19:30:31 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 27Jan 1998 20:32:19 -0500 Subject: Re: ferrule size I take no offense....but calculus is the last thing sticking in my mind at age 21. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Jan 27 19:31:34 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size No Darryl -you are to THE official curmudgeon (Terry) as a spring zephyris to hurricane Andrew. You aren't even in the same league. Not trying to offend anyone, but Terry, you are the grand master. Hai,Sensai!:^)Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Jan 27 19:35:48 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size It's the Apple Capital of Michigan. You can't swing a dead cat withouthitting an apple tree out there. Brian from rkovalak@bright.net Tue Jan 27 20:04:20 1998 sparticus.bright.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/FNG) with ESMTP id VAA13119; Tue, 27 Subject: Re: Woodworking bench -Reply RON WILHELM wrote: Ron, I would be interested in this info. Can you provide the articlereferences? Also, any recommendations on benchheight from other hand planers? Thanks; another ron Ron,I'll have to go through the magazines so give me a couple of days. Is therea particular type of workbench that youare interested in?--Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net from Brandstay@aol.com Tue Jan 27 20:07:20 1998 Subject: Re: Hardy Perfect Thomas: Cannot connect with this address for Hanson's. Did I get itwrong?http://www.anglingbc.com/hansons/equip1.htmlthanks,JA from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Jan 27 20:35:00 1998 VAA19118; Tue, 27 Jan 1998 21:34:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Hardy Perfect 3ADC47727A9F40883D633883" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 3ADC47727A9F40883D633883 Works for me - just checkedChris Brandstay wrote: Thomas: Cannot connect with this address for Hanson's. Did I get itwrong?http://www.anglingbc.com/hansons/equip1.htmlthanks,JA --------------3ADC47727A9F40883D633883 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------3ADC47727A9F40883D633883-- from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Tue Jan 27 21:24:33 1998 Subject: Re: Hardy Perfect At 08:59 PM 1/27/98 EST, JA wrote: Thomas: Cannot connect with this address for Hanson's. Did I get itwrong?http://www.anglingbc.com/hansons/equip1.htmlthanks,JA Try going at it from: http://www.hansons-outfitters.com Later,Johnny from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jan 27 22:46:54 1998 Subject: Re: Flutes....Filling Jon,I use a #4 jeweler's file and hand sand them.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Jan 27 23:05:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: 8'4wt Jon,Extrapolate the dimension between 45" & 50".Hank. from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Jan 28 06:52:09 1998 Subject: Listing on Flyfishing.com I've submitted three times to get a listing over the past 4 weeks and have to wakethesepeople up?Would appreciate it. GEM from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Wed Jan 28 08:06:57 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:06:24 -0500 Subject: Re: 8'4wt FISHWOOL wrote: Jon,Extrapolate the dimension between 45" & 50".Hank.Hate to nitpick, but it would be interpolate. Extrapolate would be apoint beyond the range of your data. from Brandstay@aol.com Wed Jan 28 08:12:05 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size AnyoneDoes the nyatex early string removal include rewrapping for oven cure?JA from Brandstay@aol.com Wed Jan 28 08:34:55 1998 Subject: Re: Hardy Perfect In a message dated 98-01-27 22:32:47 EST, you write: Thanks, it workedJA from WILHELM.RON@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Wed Jan 28 09:01:09 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 09:24:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Woodworking bench -Reply -Reply Ron, Yes, am interested in a simple design with good stability. TheScandanavian design are appealing. I have a goodsupply of white ash and white oak so I can make a good sfc. I amparticularly interested in a simple but stable tableleg design. Bench height is of importance for hand planing. Have noticedserveral heights from 30" to 34". I want tobe kind to my back and arm joints. Whatever you have or can get easilywould be fine. Thanks for your interest andtime. ron from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Wed Jan 28 09:01:13 1998 10:02:13 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: ferrule size Just try it at age 35 when I had to relearn 3 semesters of calculus in a week for a course in physical chemistry.Talk about headaches.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: ferrule size Author: at Internet-Mail I take no offense....but calculus is the last thing sticking in my mind at age 21. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Jan 28 10:23:33 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: Nyatex They don't seem to be on the web, but you can get their catalog through 800-enquiries. I've used them for a year now and have found both fax and 'phone orders to be efficiently processed. 'Phone is better if you are in a hurry as they will tell you the lead time on out-of-stock items. At first I found their delivery methods frustrating - my first order for some 10 items arrived in no fewer than six separate (small) shipments.The reality appears to be that they have distributed warehousing and multiple shipment points for all but the commonest items. Much of their tooling is Chinese. If I use a tool a lot I try to buy American or German. For example, 2 years ago I splashed out on a Starrett dial caliper - $120 compared to $20 for the Chinese version. Is it more accurate? Probably not. Is it a sensual joy to use? Absolutely. Does it make me a better worker? I like to think so. Is it worth it for an amateur user? Probably not. If you want access to a broad range of US and European tools, get the MSC catalog. The problem with the MSC catalog (which, BTW, includes Sherline machines) is that it is so huge (a 10 lb book) and has so much choice, I tend to feel like a Third World immigrant magically transported to a US supermarket and is blown away by all the varieties. MSC's prices are generally competitive with Enco's and shipping is great. They have a home page but last I checked no electronic catalog or ordering.---------- Subject: Re: Nyatex Tom, Does ENCO have a homepage? Don At 07:48 27/01/98 -0800, you wrote:Thank you to everyone who responded to my Q whether Nyatex is still'permitted'. Consensus seems to be its OK for regular, non-nodelessconstruction, and as the 2 quarts I bought a year ago look like a lifetimesupply, I'm beginning to feel good again. BTW, on the machining front, I lauded Machinery's Handbook a while backasthe 'bible' for machinists. Pair it with Karl Hans Moltrecht's 2 volumetreatise on machining (lathes, mills, grinders, you name it) which is veryclearly written, superbly illustrated and hard bound to survive the rigorsof the work environment, and you have most of what you need. ENCO hasit,disounted. Under $100 for some 1,000 pages with lots of photographs.Recommended. Thomas from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Wed Jan 28 11:47:24 1998 0400 (AST) 28 Jan 98 12:52:21 -0500 0500 28 Jan 98 12:52:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Nyatex What is the web site address. Please.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nyatex They don't seem to be on the web, but you can get their catalog through800- enquiries. I've used them for a year now and have found both fax and 'phone orders tobe efficiently processed. 'Phone is better if you are in a hurry as theywill tell you the lead time on out-of-stock items. At first I found their delivery methods frustrating - my first order forsome 10 items arrived in no fewer than six separate (small) shipments.Thereality appears to be that they have distributed warehousing and multipleshipment points for all but the commonest items. Much of their tooling is Chinese. If I use a tool a lot I try to buyAmerican or German. For example, 2 years ago I splashed out on aStarrettdial caliper - $120 compared to $20 for the Chinese version. Is it moreaccurate? Probably not. Is it a sensual joy to use? Absolutely. Does itmake me a better worker? I like to think so. Is it worth it for anamateuruser? Probably not. If you want access to a broad range of US and European tools, get the MSCcatalog. The problem with the MSC catalog (which, BTW, includesSherlinemachines) is that it is so huge (a 10 lb book) and has so much choice, Itend to feel like a Third World immigrant magically transported to a USsupermarket and is blown away by all the varieties. MSC's prices aregenerally competitive with Enco's and shipping is great. They have ahomepage but last I checked no electronic catalog or ordering.----------From: Don Andersen Subject: Re: NyatexDate: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 6:16PM Tom, Does ENCO have a homepage? Don At 07:48 27/01/98 -0800, you wrote:Thank you to everyone who responded to my Q whether Nyatex is still'permitted'. Consensus seems to be its OK for regular, non-nodelessconstruction, and as the 2 quarts I bought a year ago look like a lifetimesupply, I'm beginning to feel good again. BTW, on the machining front, I lauded Machinery's Handbook a while backasthe 'bible' for machinists. Pair it with Karl Hans Moltrecht's 2 volumetreatise on machining (lathes, mills, grinders, you name it) which isveryclearly written, superbly illustrated and hard bound to survive therigorsof the work environment, and you have most of what you need. ENCO hasit,disounted. Under $100 for some 1,000 pages with lots of photographs.Recommended. Thomas from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Wed Jan 28 12:05:30 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: Nyatex mscdirect.com---------- Subject: Re: Nyatex What is the web site address. Please.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nyatex They don't seem to be on the web, but you can get their catalog through800- enquiries. I've used them for a year now and have found both fax and 'phone orders tobe efficiently processed. 'Phone is better if you are in a hurry as theywill tell you the lead time on out-of-stock items. At first I found their delivery methods frustrating - my first order forsome 10 items arrived in no fewer than six separate (small) shipments.Thereality appears to be that they have distributed warehousing and multipleshipment points for all but the commonest items. Much of their tooling is Chinese. If I use a tool a lot I try to buyAmerican or German. For example, 2 years ago I splashed out on aStarrettdial caliper - $120 compared to $20 for the Chinese version. Is it moreaccurate? Probably not. Is it a sensual joy to use? Absolutely. Does itmake me a better worker? I like to think so. Is it worth it for anamateuruser? Probably not. If you want access to a broad range of US and European tools, get the MSCcatalog. The problem with the MSC catalog (which, BTW, includesSherlinemachines) is that it is so huge (a 10 lb book) and has so much choice, Itend to feel like a Third World immigrant magically transported to a USsupermarket and is blown away by all the varieties. MSC's prices aregenerally competitive with Enco's and shipping is great. They have ahomepage but last I checked no electronic catalog or ordering.----------From: Don Andersen Subject: Re: NyatexDate: Tuesday, January 27, 1998 6:16PM Tom, Does ENCO have a homepage? Don At 07:48 27/01/98 -0800, you wrote:Thank you to everyone who responded to my Q whether Nyatex is still'permitted'. Consensus seems to be its OK for regular, non-nodelessconstruction, and as the 2 quarts I bought a year ago look like a lifetimesupply, I'm beginning to feel good again. BTW, on the machining front, I lauded Machinery's Handbook a while backasthe 'bible' for machinists. Pair it with Karl Hans Moltrecht's 2 volumetreatise on machining (lathes, mills, grinders, you name it) which isveryclearly written, superbly illustrated and hard bound to survive therigorsof the work environment, and you have most of what you need. ENCO hasit,disounted. Under $100 for some 1,000 pages with lots of photographs.Recommended. Thomas from stpete@netten.net Wed Jan 28 16:05:05 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id QAA04478 for; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 16:20:31 -0600 Subject: Re: Woodworking bench interested in a simple design with good stability. The Scandanaviandesign are appealing. particularly interested in a simple but stable >tableleg design. Bench height is of importance for hand planing. >Have noticedserveral heights from 30" to 34". I want tobe kind to my back and arm joints. Thanks for all the advice. I've built my table from laminated oak truckflooring scrap. Good price, hope the red oak holds up well. Table is72" x 25.5". I'm ready to put the legs on it. I've decided on a 32"table top height. This is about wrist height with my arms hanging downnaturally. --Any comments or suggestions?-- If not, I'll soon see howwell my back likes this height. Rick from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Wed Jan 28 16:17:27 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Wed, 28 Jan 98 17:16:44 EST Subject: Plane blades Does anyone know if the plane blades for new Stanley and Record 9 1/2'sareinterchangable? (The blade on my Stanley is 1 5/8" wide with a 5/8"slot.)Thanks, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu Wed Jan 28 17:15:01 1998 3.03.0013/7.aaeq) with ESMTP id ua010758 for; Wed, 28 Jan 1998 18:14:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Plane blades Robert - The Japan Woodworker lists different blades for Stanley andRecordblock planes. They indicate the English Stanley has a 5/8" slot whiletheRecordand Stanley have a 7/16" slot. Both are 1 5/8" wide. Hope this helps. Seymour Birnbaum Robert Milardo wrote: Does anyone know if the plane blades for new Stanley and Record 9 1/2'sareinterchangable? (The blade on my Stanley is 1 5/8" wide with a 5/8"slot.)Thanks, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill HallUniv. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Jan 28 19:17:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: 8'4wt I stand corrected-not the first time in 66 years.:-) from arnold_pc@email.msn.com Wed Jan 28 19:34:28 1998 Microsoft SMTPSVC;Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:33:47 -0800 SMTPSVC;Wed, 28 Jan 1998 17:33:46 -0800 Subject: Re: Re:Dipping Tubes Thanks Don, I had considered using EMT, but never saw or heard anyoneelseusing it. I may give it a try......Jeff Arnold-----Original Message----- Subject: Re:Dipping Tubes At 14:43 27/01/98 EST, you wrote:You can find CVPC in most any home improvement store or hardwarestore.CPVClooks like ordinary PVC except it is creamy white rather than starkwhiteandwill go by the name Flow Guard Gold. It will have black and yellowmarkingsrather than the pink used on PVC.CPVC may be difficult to find in California because the State does notallowCPVC to be used for potable water.Chris Guys, You might want to try aluminum conduit available from your localelectricalshop. Have used it for years. The top is threaded to accept a brass 1 1/2"ball valve and the bottom has a steel cap. Works great. It's not effected finish. Use a harsh washing soap and some elbow grease. Cleans up well. regards, Don from rkovalak@bright.net Wed Jan 28 20:04:58 1998 sparticus.bright.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/FNG) with ESMTP id VAA17607; Wed, 28 Subject: Workbench Plans Installment I B828806F3D2CA52318A2DBEF" --------------B828806F3D2CA52318A2DBEF RON W: Workbench Plans _ Installment I (Excuse the bandwidth) Since there are a lot of magazines to search, I thought I'd give you thereferences in installments so you can get startedfinding them. I highly recommend the plans in Woodsmith. They are welldesigned and easy to follow. Woodsmith (Magazine) General Comments: Woodsmith traditionally has easy to follow, wellthought out designs/plans. I have done several of theirprojects and was impressed with both the easy flow and the outcome. They are not trying to "blind" you with "dazzlingdesigns". Vol. 9 No. 50 April, 1987Traditional WorkbenchEntire Issue is dedicated to the construction of the Traditional Workbenchincluding mounting the vises, selection of benchdogs, an optional cabinet (for under the bench) and building the slab top. This is an excellent woodworking bench presentedin a set of very good plans. Vol. 11 No. 66 December, 1989Construction Lumber WorkbenchThis workbench is made using construction (2x) lumber and a solid coredoor for the top. This could be a low cost bench. Vol. 13 No. 74 April, 1991Shop CabinetsThese are plans for constructing frame-and-panel shop cabinets _ theycould be used to make a base for a workbench if youneed the extra storage. Vol. 15 No. 88 August, 1993Portable Workbench (overall dimensions 30"Wx24"Dx32"H)If you are lacking in space this bench might fit the bill. The dimensionscould be changed to accommodate planing. Vol. 17 No. 100 August, 1995Classic WorkbenchThis is a workbench loosely based on a shaker design. Nice. They alsodiscuss two variations on constructing the laminatedtop. ShopNotes (Magazine) General Comments: A companion magazine to Woodsmith that detailspractical ideas for the shop that includes techniques,jigs, fixtures and tips. Vol. 2 No. 7 January, 1993Traditional WorkbenchEntire Issue is dedicated to the construction of a Traditional Workbenchincluding construction details for both front andend vises. This is a very good Issue that thoroughly covers the subject. --Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net --------------B828806F3D2CA52318A2DBEF RON W:Workbench Plans _ Installment I(Excuse the bandwidth) Since there are a lot of magazines to search, I thought I'd give you and easy to follow. follow, projects arenot trying to "blind" you with "dazzling designs". April, 1987Traditional WorkbenchEntire Issue is dedicated to the construction of the TraditionalWorkbench including mounting the vises, selection of bench dogs, anoptional an excellent woodworking bench presented in a set of very good plans. December, 1989Construction Lumber WorkbenchThis workbench is made using construction (2x) lumber and a solid April, 1991Shop CabinetsThese are plans for constructing frame-and-panel shop cabinets _they could be used to make a base for a workbench if you need the extrastorage. August, 1993Portable The dimensions could be changed to accommodate planing. August, 1995Classic Workbench They also discuss two variations on constructing the laminated top. ShopNotes (Magazine) detailspractical ideas for the shop that includes techniques, jigs, fixtures andtips. January, 1993Traditional WorkbenchEntire Issue is dedicated to the construction of a TraditionalWorkbench is a very good Issue that thoroughly covers the subject. --Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net --------------B828806F3D2CA52318A2DBEF-- from stpete@netten.net Wed Jan 28 23:51:27 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA00601 for; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 00:07:03 -0600 Subject: Re: Workbench Plans Installment I Ron Kovalak wrote: RON W: Workbench Plans _ Installment I (Excuse the bandwidth) Since there are a lot of magazines to search, I thought I'd give youthe references in installments so you can get started finding them. Ihighly recommend the plans in Woodsmith. They are well designed andeasy to follow. Woodsmith (Magazine) General Comments: Woodsmith traditionally has easy to follow, wellthought out designs/plans. I have done several of their projects andwas impressed with both the easy flow and the outcome. They are nottrying to "blind" you with "dazzling designs". Vol. 9 No. 50 April, 1987Traditional WorkbenchEntire Issue is dedicated to the construction of the TraditionalWorkbench including mounting the vises, selection of bench dogs, anoptional cabinet (for under the bench) and building the slab top.This is an excellent woodworking bench presented in a set of very goodplans. Vol. 11 No. 66 December, 1989Construction Lumber WorkbenchThis workbench is made using construction (2x) lumber and a solid coredoor for the top. This could be a low cost bench. Vol. 13 No. 74 April, 1991Shop CabinetsThese are plans for constructing frame-and-panel shop cabinets _ theycould be used to make a base for a workbench if you need the extrastorage. Vol. 15 No. 88 August, 1993Portable Workbench (overall dimensions 30"Wx24"Dx32"H)If you are lacking in space this bench might fit the bill. Thedimensions could be changed to accommodate planing. Vol. 17 No. 100 August, 1995Classic WorkbenchThis is a workbench loosely based on a shaker design. Nice. Theyalso discuss two variations on constructing the laminated top. ShopNotes (Magazine) General Comments: A companion magazine to Woodsmith that detailspractical ideas for the shop that includes techniques, jigs, fixturesand tips. Vol. 2 No. 7 January, 1993Traditional WorkbenchEntire Issue is dedicated to the construction of a TraditionalWorkbench including construction details for both front and endvises. This is a very good Issue that thoroughly covers the subject. --Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net Thanks Ron, The Woodsmith Magazine has a site located athttp://www.augusthome.com/Plans/pphome.htm There are plans there that can be downloaded for $5.00 each. I'vebuilt the top to my workbench and have spent the time to design it, butI may have downloaded one of these plans had I found it beforebeginning. I printed the photo out anyway just for finishing ideas. Ihaven't decided on dogs and a tailvise yet. If anyone knows of inexpensive tailvises that WORK well, I'd be glad tohear of the sources. Our local woodworking house has nice ones in the$250 range. I'm spending $93 on a 7" Jorgenson quick release model with the slide updog unless someone has a better idea. Thanks, Rick from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 29 00:29:36 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA24069 +0000 Subject: Re: Listing on Flyfishing.com They appear to be up and running. Over the last 4 weeks or so, I've beenunable toconnect to their site. I posted to that effect on another fishing bulletinboard andreceived one reply from another user who also was unable to connect. TodayI wasable to connect...whatever was wrong appears to be corrected. George Bourke ----------From: DrBamboo Subject: Listing on Flyfishing.comDate: Wednesday, January 28, 1998 4:49 AM I've submitted three times to get a listing over the past 4 weeks andhavesent 4 e-mails with No Response whatsoever.Does anyone have a phone #towakethesepeople up?Would appreciate it. GEM from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jan 29 03:54:38 1998 Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:54:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Workbench Plans Installment I If you don't go with the dogs you wont get that much use out of the tail vise but unless you ONLY see your self using the bench for rod making I'd recomend going with the dogs and tail vise, they make the bench sooooo much more versatile. Cheep tail vise that works? Don't know. Possibly use a bench screw and make the jaw to fit? Tony There are plans there that can be downloaded for $5.00 each. I'vebuilt the top to my workbench and have spent the time to design it, butI may have downloaded one of these plans had I found it beforebeginning. I printed the photo out anyway just for finishing ideas. Ihaven't decided on dogs and a tailvise yet. If anyone knows of inexpensive tailvises that WORK well, I'd be glad tohear of the sources. Our local woodworking house has nice ones in the$250 range. I'm spending $93 on a 7" Jorgenson quick release model with the slide updog unless someone has a better idea. Thanks, Rick /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Jan 29 03:59:00 1998 Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:58:51 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Workbench Plans Installment I Forgot to mention in my prev post re. bench dogs and tail vise but if you use a cabinet under the bench you'll make the bench more stable because of the extra structures as well as the extra weight. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Jan 29 06:03:45 1998 Subject: Re: Listing on Flyfishing.com Irish George;Thanks for the info.We'll have to have a Tullamore Dew sometime.GEM from jfoster@gte.net Thu Jan 29 06:16:03 1998 Subject: Re: calc mac-creator="4D4F5353" Hi Chris We do a lot of JAVA at work also..like the calc, it can get really slow.We use it almost exclusively for gui clients. (duh) personally i guessi'm dull or i've seen too much software but i don't find spinningwhirligigs appealing on the web. imhho jerry from WILHELM.RON@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Thu Jan 29 08:10:24 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 09:04:10 -0500 Subject: Workbench Plans Installment I -Reply RON; Thanks so much for the in depth information. Several of the descriptionshave caught my attention particularly theshaker and the tight space one. Thanks ron wilhelm from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Jan 29 11:54:09 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id RAA24041 for; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 17:54:08 GMT Subject: Re: Plane blades Robert Milardo wrote: Does anyone know if the plane blades for new Stanley and Record 9 1/2'sareinterchangable? (The blade on my Stanley is 1 5/8" wide with a 5/8"slot.)Thanks, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill HallUniv. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 I would simply purchase a Hock Blade instead. They are better blades.BryantC. from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Jan 29 13:53:37 1998 Subject: Special threads Off the topic I know, but does anyone know what the proper thread is forshotgun cleaning rod accessories. I'm trying to make a fancy ebony and NSrod 5/16-27, but could also be 5/16-26 or 5/16-28. I have about gone blindlookingat thread gauges and can't make a decision. from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Jan 29 13:59:05 1998 Subject: Cortland ferrules? All, Does anyone use the Cortland NS ferrule sets? Any good, bad or other feedback? Don Burns from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Jan 29 16:16:40 1998 Subject: Re: Cortland ferrules? I don't recommend them.GEM from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Jan 29 16:22:38 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 29 Jan 98 17:22:01 EST Subject: Re: Special threads Tom, Funny you should ask but I have accessories from two differentmanufacturers and they are not interchangable (i.e., each having slightlydifferent threads). The fancy rod is a nice idea though. -- BobAt 02:36 PM 1/29/98 EST, you wrote:Off the topic I know, but does anyone know what the proper thread is forshotgun cleaning rod accessories. I'm trying to make a fancy ebony and NSrod 5/16-27, but could also be 5/16-26 or 5/16-28. I have about gone blindlookingat thread gauges and can't make a decision. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 29 16:48:05 1998 Subject: Re: Cortland ferrules? In a message dated 1/29/98 12:40:39 PM Pacific Standard Time,flyfisher@cmix.com writes: Does anyone use the Cortland NS ferrule sets? Any good, bad or other feedback? I used a Cortland NS ferrule on my first rod. Bought it at probablythe same place you're looking at them - Bob Marriott's. I likeCSE ferrules better. With Cortland ferrules, the male didn't evencome close to fitting into the female. CSE ferrules fit half waywhen you get them. Cortland ferrules have a square in crosssection welt. Makes it look sort of utilitarian. Other than that,they were of the Super Z design and should be just as strongas CSE ferrules. Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Jan 29 17:21:38 1998 Subject: Re[2]: Cortland ferrules? RO>I used a Cortland NS ferrule on my first rod. Bought it at probablyRO>the same place you're looking at them - Bob Marriott's. I likeRO>CSE ferrules better. With Cortland ferrules, the male didn't evenRO>come close to fitting into the female. CSE ferrules fit half wayRO>when you get them. Cortland ferrules have a square in crossRO>section welt. Makes it look sort of utilitarian. Other than that,RO>they were of the Super Z design and should be just as strongRO>as CSE ferrules. RO>Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Thanks for the feedback - that's where I saw them. They look to be closeto the welt shape I need for a restoration job. Do you mean that themale was too small or too large for the female? Too large I can handle.(I think) Don Burns from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Jan 29 18:08:24 1998 TAA20143 for ; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:08:13 Subject: Books To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to pass onto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadly theyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collection ofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 29 18:15:19 1998 TAA07274; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 19:14:58 -0500 Subject: Re: calc 3C552A812296F145E34BF753" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 3C552A812296F145E34BF753 Jerry I was just having a bit of fun - once you get into the web graphics /animationarena - it is starting to get mind boggling - Active-X, Flash, 3-D graphicsand whoknows what next. I really just need to use some basic solid tools thatwork. I havea HP $12.50 scientific calc that does my conversions fine - but that wastooeasyof an answer.Oh yeah, the red barn is gone - but take a look at my new shop in thesnow! Ijust posted the picture to my homage. I have many more that I have tofigureout what to do with. I am also thinking about a section "view from theshop" sincethey are so nice. I only have a few interior shots right now and will bedoing more. Chris Jerry Foster wrote: Hi Chris We do a lot of JAVA at work also..like the calc, it can get really slow.We use it almost exclusively for gui clients. (duh) personally i guessi'm dull or i've seen too much software but i don't find spinningwhirligigs appealing on the web. imhho jerry --------------3C552A812296F145E34BF753 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------3C552A812296F145E34BF753-- from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Jan 29 18:19:36 1998 SVR4) Subject: RE: Books Why not put the list up here? I would be interested. Thomas---------- Subject: Books To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to pass onto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadly theyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collection ofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Thu Jan 29 18:23:34 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: calc Chris - what's your web address for the pictures - I would love to seethem? Thomas---------- Subject: Re: calc Jerry I was just having a bit of fun - once you get into the web graphics /animationarena - it is starting to get mind boggling - Active-X, Flash, 3-D graphicsand whoknows what next. I really just need to use some basic solid tools thatwork. I havea HP $12.50 scientific calc that does my conversions fine - but that wastooeasyof an answer.Oh yeah, the red barn is gone - but take a look at my new shop in thesnow! Ijust posted the picture to my homage. I have many more that I have tofigureout what to do with. I am also thinking about a section "view from theshop" sincethey are so nice. I only have a few interior shots right now and will bedoing more. Chris Jerry Foster wrote: Hi Chris We do a lot of JAVA at work also..like the calc, it can get really slow.We use it almost exclusively for gui clients. (duh) personally i guessi'm dull or i've seen too much software but i don't find spinningwhirligigs appealing on the web. imhho jerry from harsha@aros.net Thu Jan 29 18:58:49 1998 Subject: Re: Cortland ferrules? flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: All, Does anyone use the Cortland NS ferrule sets? Any good, bad or other feedback? Don Burns I used the ferrules on the one rod I built. The male was very large andit took quite a bit of work to size it. Otherwise I have had noproblems. Mike from jfoster@gte.net Thu Jan 29 19:00:57 1998 Subject: WOW mac-creator="4D4F5353" Chris, all Great googlies, what a classy shop, is that a fireplace? huge. did youraze the barn?bye the way your logo comes across on my machine about five times largerthan the frame. great page though.. thanks for the kind words. http://www.shentel.net/canerod/RodClassFrame.htm Is anyone out there in the Paradise Ca. vacinity? Jerry from lblan@provide.net Thu Jan 29 19:01:36 1998 Subject: Re: Special threads The thread you want is a 5/16-27. As a previous post stated, there isanother thread out there. The one most commonly encountered is describedbyBrownells as "Outers undersized 5/16-27". If you have looked at a lot ofbrushes, the Parker-Hale thread is another possibility. The following is ashort quote from the Brownells catalog. "Parker-Hale uses a unique thread that traces back to British militaryspecsof the 19th century. It doesn't match any standard U.S., Whitworth ormetricthread in pitch or diameter." All of my shotgun rods use 5/16-27 threads. Parker-Hale does make someverynice and unique mops, brushes and jags. Adapters are available to use themon a standard rod. I turned one down to match the diameter of the onepiecerod I use on my over-unders. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Special threads Off the topic I know, but does anyone know what the proper thread is forshotgun cleaning rod accessories. I'm trying to make a fancy ebony and NSrod 5/16-27, but could also be 5/16-26 or 5/16-28. I have about gone blindlookingat thread gauges and can't make a decision. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 29 19:08:10 1998 UAA19946; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:08:05 -0500 Subject: Re: calc 0C4AF4DFE56C73580D780C17" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 0C4AF4DFE56C73580D780C17 Thomas There is a link off of Jerry's Rodmakers page - but here it is:http://www.shentel.net/canerod Chris Thomas Pindelski wrote: Chris - what's your web address for the pictures - I would love to seethem? Thomas----------From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: calcDate: Thursday, January 29, 1998 7:14PM Jerry I was just having a bit of fun - once you get into the web graphics /animationarena - it is starting to get mind boggling - Active-X, Flash, 3- Dgraphicsand whoknows what next. I really just need to use some basic solid tools thatwork. I havea HP $12.50 scientific calc that does my conversions fine - but that wastooeasyof an answer.Oh yeah, the red barn is gone - but take a look at my new shop in thesnow! Ijust posted the picture to my homage. I have many more that I have tofigureout what to do with. I am also thinking about a section "view from theshop" sincethey are so nice. I only have a few interior shots right now and will bedoing more. Chris Jerry Foster wrote: Hi Chris We do a lot of JAVA at work also..like the calc, it can get really slow.We use it almost exclusively for gui clients. (duh) personally i guessi'm dull or i've seen too much software but i don't find spinningwhirligigs appealing on the web. imhho jerry --------------0C4AF4DFE56C73580D780C17 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------0C4AF4DFE56C73580D780C17-- from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Jan 29 19:26:07 1998 Subject: Re: Books Bill Fink wrote: To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to pass onto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadlytheyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collectionofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill Bill, I am somewhat of a collector myself and would possibly be interested inindividual titles dealing with fishing or rod building. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Jan 29 19:30:05 1998 UAA24865; Thu, 29 Jan 1998 20:28:31 -0500 Subject: Re: WOW 1B6010F945D2275B9DA61247" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 1B6010F945D2275B9DA61247 Jerry Yes that is a stone fireplace - really a classic. I have done a lot ofwork to bringthe place up to snuf. Not only I have workshop - but office / finishingroomand bath / kitchen facilities and loft for the cane. You really need to seethe picturesof the casting pond - the dam needs work - but the potential is there.I need to do more work on the home page - but all it takes is time! Chris Jerry Foster wrote: Chris, all Great googlies, what a classy shop, is that a fireplace? huge. did youraze the barn?bye the way your logo comes across on my machine about five timeslargerthan the frame. great page though.. thanks for the kind words. http://www.shentel.net/canerod/RodClassFrame.htm Is anyone out there in the Paradise Ca. vacinity? Jerry --------------1B6010F945D2275B9DA61247 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------1B6010F945D2275B9DA61247-- from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Jan 29 19:44:30 1998 Subject: Re: Books Bill Fink wrote: To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to pass onto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadlytheyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collectionofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. BillBill,I hope there is no serious illness inspiring this divestiture.Keep well,Reed from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Jan 29 20:33:54 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cortland ferrules? In a message dated 1/29/98 3:41:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,flyfisher@cmix.com writes: Thanks for the feedback - that's where I saw them. They look to be closeto the welt shape I need for a restoration job. Do you mean that themale was too small or too large for the female? Too large I can handle. Too large. I had to file, sand, and polish the male to get it to fit.Darryl from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Jan 29 21:21:15 1998 Subject: Re: Books RO>Bill Fink wrote:RO>>RO>> To the list,RO>> A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me topass oRO>> to my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadlytheyRO>> have other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate thecollection oRO>> over 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill I'd be interested in a copy of Kirkfield's rod book. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Jan 29 21:21:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Cortland ferrules? Thanks to all that replied. Don Burns from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu Jan 29 22:38:26 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA11338 +0000 Subject: Re: Books 1. Donate to a worthy cause as a fund raiser...look at the Native FishSociety http://www.teleport.com/~salmo/index.htm 2. Sell, via the list or a dealer. At 12:08 AM 1/30/98 +0000, you wrote:To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to pass onto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadlytheyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collectionofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from DRinker370@aol.com Thu Jan 29 22:47:19 1998 Subject: planing forms how many hours can I expect to draw file the initial surface before it isflat. Also , should draw filing be followed by a stone or is the filingsurface OK. Any advice on retaining the flat surface lengthwise. thanksdave from harry37@epix.net Fri Jan 30 05:55:43 1998 GAA11183 Subject: Re: Cortland ferrules? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 1/29/98 3:41:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,flyfisher@cmix.com writes: Thanks for the feedback - that's where I saw them. They look to becloseto the welt shape I need for a restoration job. Do you mean that themale was too small or too large for the female? Too large I can handle. Too large. I had to file, sand, and polish the male to get it to fit.Darryl I had the same experience Greg Kuntz from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Fri Jan 30 06:38:42 1998 (AST) 30 Jan 98 07:43:43 -0500 0500 30 Jan 98 07:43:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Books I would be interested in Garrison"s book if you have it.-----Original Message--- -- Subject: Books To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to pass onto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadlytheyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collectionofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Fri Jan 30 07:54:28 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 30 Jan 1998 08:54:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Books I also would be interested. You could also look into selling to adealer. I would tend not to donate classics to the local library (thisseems like such an odd statement) but our local brach doesn't keep theclassic outdoor stuff around. I guess it doesn't get checked out enoughor something. This may be just a local issue to me and you might want tocheck out you local system. Thomas Pindelski wrote: Why not put the list up here? I would be interested. Thomas----------From: Bill Fink Subject: BooksDate: Thursday, January 29, 1998 7:08PM To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to pass onto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadlytheyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collectionofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jan 30 09:31:55 1998 10:32:52 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re: planing forms There will be others that can respond to this better, however, I just finished up some steel forms based on Thomas Penrose's web page instructions so I'll chime in. I had previously read in the archives that about 60 (or was that 30?) hours would go into making the forms. I laughed...no way, sez I. Well, it is true in spades and without machining there is no way (that I could devise) to speed up the process. So, my advice is to not think about the hours, it will drive you crazy. Just go at it in time increments that you enjoy without getting frustrated. If it becomes onerous, quit for the day. This will be your first test in the patience required to produce a quality hand-made product. You will need to stop frequently to clean metal chips out of the file. Otherwise it will gouge the surface.I stoned the forms with progessively finer stones after getting them flat with the file. This gives a much nicer polished surface. I don't think flatness end-to-end makes any difference as long as the bend is gradual enough not to result in elevation of the contact of the plane base. If you read Garrison's book you will find that he had a workman come in his home and needed a lever to move some rock.Turns out that his steel forms were right there so he used them and bent the forms. Garrison used those forms over 30 years after that.Thomas P's instructions were excellent. One thing I would add is that with 3/4" bars, there is not much extra room between the bottom of the V groove and the shoulder of the adjusting bolts. This can be a bit of a problem if you use the triangular file method. The file I obtained was a perfect 60-60-60 triangle but does not come to a perfect point (the edge is about .040" wide). Since the apex of the V is close to the bolts you end up having to use the tip part of the file for the last 10-20 thousandths of the base of the butt side of the forms with the bars closed almost all the way. Since the edge is slightly rounded this will cause a rounded base (almost impossible to see) in the groove. Fortunately, I caught this in time to adjust my method. The way around this is to flatten off the edge of the file with a grindstone so that you can keep your bars farther apart and use only the sides and not the edge of the file to cut your groove. Flattening the file corner allows the file to sit deeper in the groove without impacting the adjusting bolts.I hope this description makes sense.Good luck.Jon McAnulty P.S. I also thought I could get away with not using finger protection. Ha! Pure hubris. The bastard file edge grinds right through your fingers. Duct tape the finger tips works well here (just like Thomas noted in his description). from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Jan 30 11:42:32 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: planing forms as much enjoyment there is in making your own tools, if you multiply thehours it takes to make times how much and hour you earn at your job andadd the cost of the steel, bolts and pins you will find that they arecheaper to buy than make. ---------- From:mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu[SMTP:mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu] Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 7:37 AM Subject: Re: planing forms There will be others that can respond to this better, however, Ijust finished up some steel forms based on Thomas Penrose's web page instructions so I'll chime in. I had previously read in thearchives that about 60 (or was that 30?) hours would go into making theforms. I laughed...no way, sez I. Well, it is true in spades and without machining there is no way (that I could devise) to speed up the process. So, my advice is to not think about the hours, it willdrive you crazy. Just go at it in time increments that you enjoywithout getting frustrated. If it becomes onerous, quit for the day. Thiswill be your first test in the patience required to produce a quality hand-made product. You will need to stop frequently to cleanmetal chips out of the file. Otherwise it will gouge the surface.I stoned the forms with progessively finer stones aftergetting them flat with the file. This gives a much nicer polishedsurface. I don't think flatness end-to-end makes any difference as long asthe bend is gradual enough not to result in elevation of the contactof the plane base. If you read Garrison's book you will find that hehad a workman come in his home and needed a lever to move some rock.Turns out that his steel forms were right there so he used them andbent the forms. Garrison used those forms over 30 years after that.Thomas P's instructions were excellent. One thing I would addis that with 3/4" bars, there is not much extra room between thebottom of the V groove and the shoulder of the adjusting bolts. This canbe a bit of a problem if you use the triangular file method. The fileI obtained was a perfect 60-60- 60 triangle but does not come to a perfect point (the edge is about .040" wide). Since the apex ofthe V is close to the bolts you end up having to use the tip part ofthe file for the last 10-20 thousandths of the base of the butt sideof the forms with the bars closed almost all the way. Since the edgeis slightly rounded this will cause a rounded base (almostimpossible to see) in the groove. Fortunately, I caught this in time to adjustmy method. The way around this is to flatten off the edge of thefile with a grindstone so that you can keep your bars farther apartand use only the sides and not the edge of the file to cut your groove. Flattening the file corner allows the file to sit deeper in thegroove without impacting the adjusting bolts.I hope this description makes sense.Good luck.Jon McAnulty P.S. I also thought I could get away with not using fingerprotection. Ha! Pure hubris. The bastard file edge grinds right through your fingers. Duct tape the finger tips works well here (just likeThomas noted in his description). from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Jan 30 11:54:55 1998 Subject: Drip Dip Tube interest in the "drip dip tube" with several people contacting me via private email asking questions about it. I have no if there is interest in it, I thought I would post some ofmy improvements. The original post is in the archives under September1995 I have since reduced the "drip tube" since I posted the description to not even using a valve at all. I drilled a 3/16 hole in the bottom cap and got a cork that fits. Put the cork in, fill the tube (use a paint strainer), position your rod - for me it's a blank, I don't varnish my rods with the guides on. As a matter of fact this method isn't too good for varnishing with guides on since you have to stop and let the varnish drain off the guides as they come out of the varnish. Put your varnish can under the tube, and pull the cork. The drain rate is entirely dependent on the viscosity of your varnish (some of them tend to be fairly thick), and the size of the hole you drill. Some experimentation is required. I have found the slower the drain rate, the better. I am operating in the one to two inches per minute range right now. When the varnish has drained completely, drape a rag over the topof the tube, and let your rod set up in the tube. This keeps dust off.Remember to cover your can of varnish also, otherwise it will skinover and you will have solid pieces the next time that will clog thehole. Putting a few drops of paint thinner on the top of your varnishhelps also. I also use a smaller in diameter PVC pipe now. A 45 inch long,2 inch in diameter pipe takes almost a whole gallon of varnishto fill. A 1 inch in diameter pipe takes about a third of that, soyou can buy a couple quarts of varnish instead of a whole gallon. This is a very cost effective, space saving way to get a professionallooking finish. Another trick that will help - after your varnish is thoroughly hardened,buff it with some Turtle wax Polishing compound. The same stuff theyuse on cars. As varnish hardens it leaves a haze on the surface. Thepolishing compound takes off the haze and really makes the varnish shine. Darryl Hayashida from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Fri Jan 30 12:17:07 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 30 Jan 98 13:16:15 EST Subject: Re: planing forms Dave, I never kept track of the hours but some things made a bigdifference, eg. having a new 14" bastard cut file. (Too old and dull afile, or a file with too fine a cut didn't help, and a new quality filemade things go much faster.) I didn't use a stone for the final finishingwork for some reason I don't quite remember, but instead used siliconcarbide sanding paper from about 180 to 400 or 600 grit. This workedwelland I ended up with a super polished surface. I went overboard herebecause I liked the way it looked. Jon's advise is also right on themoney, especially regarding taking your time and stopping when you getfrustrated or simply don't enjoy the work. --Bob. At 11:38 PM 1/29/98 EST, you wrote:how many hours can I expect to draw file the initial surface before it isflat. Also , should draw filing be followed by a stone or is the filingsurface OK. Any advice on retaining the flat surface lengthwise. thanksdave Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Jan 30 12:42:50 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Nodeless Rods A question for the nodeless builders, when aligning the strips do youtry to line up the splices like you do nodes? Or, does this even matterwhen going "nodeless?" Is there a specific splice alignment patternsuch as 2x2x2 or 3x3? Brian from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Jan 30 13:50:56 1998 14:51:44 -0600 R8.10.00) Subject: Re[2]: planing forms "as much enjoyment there is in making your own tools, if you multiply the hours it takes to make times how much and hour you earn at your job and add the cost of the steel, bolts and pins you will find that they are cheaper to buy than make." This is a philosophical issue. At my billing rate, everything is cheaper to buy than make, including bamboo rods. The point is that these projects are done in time where I am generally not earning anything and do not want to do the type of work for which I am billable. Thus, making the tools is regarded as an accomplishment and results in relatively minimal $ investment in what I regard as a hobby, not a vocation.Just $0.02 more.Jon McAnulty from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Jan 30 14:31:12 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 30Jan 1998 15:33:05 -0500 Subject: Color Preserver on a blank. I would like to know the proper (hehe) way to preserve silk wraps...this is my concern. If I dip the rod without the guides...will the preserver I use attack the finish of the rod? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Fri Jan 30 15:15:36 1998 SVR4) Subject: RE: planing forms So are bamboo rods. But you can't beat the experience.---------- Subject: RE: planing forms as much enjoyment there is in making your own tools, if you multiply thehours it takes to make times how much and hour you earn at your job andadd the cost of the steel, bolts and pins you will find that they arecheaper to buy than make. ---------- From:mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu[SMTP:mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu] Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 7:37 AM Subject: Re: planing forms There will be others that can respond to this better, however, Ijustfinished up some steel forms based on Thomas Penrose's web pageinstructions so I'll chime in. I had previously read in thearchivesthat about 60 (or was that 30?) hours would go into making theforms.I laughed...no way, sez I. Well, it is true in spades and without machining there is no way (that I could devise) to speed up theprocess. So, my advice is to not think about the hours, it willdriveyou crazy. Just go at it in time increments that you enjoywithoutgetting frustrated. If it becomes onerous, quit for the day. Thiswillbe your first test in the patience required to produce a qualityhand-made product. You will need to stop frequently to cleanmetalchips out of the file. Otherwise it will gouge the surface.I stoned the forms with progessively finer stones aftergettingthem flat with the file. This gives a much nicer polishedsurface. Idon't think flatness end-to-end makes any difference as long asthebend is gradual enough not to result in elevation of the contactofthe plane base. If you read Garrison's book you will find that hehada workman come in his home and needed a lever to move some rock.Turnsout that his steel forms were right there so he used them andbent theforms. Garrison used those forms over 30 years after that.Thomas P's instructions were excellent. One thing I would addisthat with 3/4" bars, there is not much extra room between thebottomof the V groove and the shoulder of the adjusting bolts. This canbe abit of a problem if you use the triangular file method. The fileIobtained was a perfect 60-60-60 triangle but does not come to aperfect point (the edge is about .040" wide). Since the apex ofthe Vis close to the bolts you end up having to use the tip part ofthefile for the last 10-20 thousandths of the base of the butt sideofthe forms with the bars closed almost all the way. Since the edgeisslightly rounded this will cause a rounded base (almostimpossible tosee) in the groove. Fortunately, I caught this in time to adjustmymethod. The way around this is to flatten off the edge of thefilewith a grindstone so that you can keep your bars farther apartand useonly the sides and not the edge of the file to cut your groove.Flattening the file corner allows the file to sit deeper in thegroovewithout impacting the adjusting bolts.I hope this description makes sense.Good luck.Jon McAnulty P.S. I also thought I could get away with not using fingerprotection.Ha! Pure hubris. The bastard file edge grinds right through yourfingers. Duct tape the finger tips works well here (just likeThomasnoted in his description). from DrBamboo@aol.com Fri Jan 30 15:22:41 1998 Subject: Re: Color Preserver on a blank. Jon;N o,the preserver should not harm the finish,but you will get a weakerbond to theblank with color preserver.Also wraps treated with preserver will age andcrack sooner than wraps with just varnish.The only good reason I can thinkof from DRinker370@aol.com Fri Jan 30 16:33:12 1998 Subject: Planing Forms and Lathe advice. Thanks for all of the advice concerning planing forms. I find makingthese tools in metal a little awkward my background is in wood. Theconceptof filing a bevel with a 60 degree file and it working is a littleunbelievable at this point. I do appreciate the advice concerningpatience. Its funny, I spend last weekend with Wayne Cattanach in NewJersey and the entire next week I am on the phone all over the countryassembling tools and materials and having ten pound cataloguesdelivered tothe house. This is a great sport ! I have been looking into small lathesto use in rod making . What would be a good diameter for a spindle shafthole. Grizzly Imports has an interesting lathe for $150 with a cast bedand 3/8 inch spindle hole any ideas....... Dave from MasjC1@aol.com Fri Jan 30 16:33:16 1998 Subject: Second Culm Hi All, Today I split my second culm. It went much better than the first one. I got24pieces from the tip section and 18 from the butt. All, but 3 with leafscars,are useable. I took my time and followed Waynes video instructions, whichIthough I was doing the first time, and everything came out OK. Now I will be less aggressive with my heat on the node flattening andstraighting. Onward! Mark Cole from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Fri Jan 30 17:45:34 1998 SVR4) Subject: RE: Planing Forms and Lathe advice. I've bought tools from Grizzly - mostly cheap Chinese gear good for occasional use, BUT do check they have it in stock before you order. Lots of thing in their catalogs are out of stock and may take ages to get. Not sure that their adverising quite works with my sense of fair play - I've been let down so many times with back orders and "...the computer lied..." nonsense that I finally asked them to cancel all o/s orders and take myname off their mailing list. ENCO is far more reliable, but less woodworking gear. Garrett Wade in NYC is v. reliable but mostly top $. Thomas---------- Subject: Planing Forms and Lathe advice. Thanks for all of the advice concerning planing forms. I find makingthese tools in metal a little awkward my background is in wood. The conceptof filing a bevel with a 60 degree file and it working is a littleunbelievable at this point. I do appreciate the advice concerningpatience. Its funny, I spend last weekend with Wayne Cattanach in NewJersey and the entire next week I am on the phone all over the countryassembling tools and materials and having ten pound cataloguesdelivered tothe house. This is a great sport ! I have been looking into small lathesto use in rod making . What would be a good diameter for a spindle shafthole. Grizzly Imports has an interesting lathe for $150 with a cast bedand 3/8 inch spindle hole any ideas....... Dave from anglport@con2.com Fri Jan 30 18:24:02 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01227 for Subject: Re: Color Preserver on a blank. At 03:31 PM 1/30/98 +0000, you wrote:I would like to know the proper (hehe) way to preserve silk wraps...this is my concern. If I dip the rod without the guides...will the preserver I use attack the finish of the rod? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 Jon,It did when I tried it! I didn't use silk, I used nylon; but the upshot was,the first dip held fine and the SECOND one actually bubbled UP at the siteof each wrap. I was never able to trace down the cause but after twostrip-jobs (I'm a slow learner) I gave up color-preserving forever andwenta color I liked PLAIN! If anyone presents the same woe and has a cure I'dlove for you to forward it to me. I'll NEVER try it again, but I damn-surewould like to know what caused it!Art Port from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Jan 30 18:24:34 1998 TAA10538 for ; Fri, 30 Jan 1998 19:25:24 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodeless Rods Brian Any stagger pattern will work - I just happen to use 3x3 since I do half the strips with left hand splice and the other half with right handsplice - it evens things out nicely. But, if you decide that you want todo all in one direction then other options are open incl the old 6 cylinderfiring order - try it and see what works for you. Chris On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 13:43:54 -0500, Thoman, Brian wrote: A question for the nodeless builders, when aligning the strips do youtry to line up the splices like you do nodes? Or, does this even matterwhen going "nodeless?" Is there a specific splice alignment patternsuch as 2x2x2 or 3x3? Brian Regards Chris from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Jan 30 18:33:16 1998 Subject: Re: A nodeless experience! Jon Lintvet wrote: Last night I planed the tip section of my first nodeless rod! What abeauty. Fear not! I've done quite a few now and none have fallen apart. Justfinishing a copy of an F. E. Thomas Special.George from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 30 18:35:25 1998 Subject: RE:RE: Planing Forms and Lathe advice. RO>I've bought tools from Grizzly - mostly cheap Chinese gear good forRO>occasional use, BUT do check they have it in stock before you order. LotsRO>of thing in their catalogs are out of stock and may take ages to get. NotRO>sure that their adverising quite works with my sense of fair play - I'veRO>been let down so many times with back orders and "...the computerlied..."RO>nonsense that I finally asked them to cancel all o/s orders and take mynameRO>off their mailing list. RO>ENCO is far more reliable, but less woodworking gear. RO>Garrett Wade in NYC is v. reliable but mostly top $. RO>ThomasRO> ----------RO>From: DRinker370 RO>Subject: Planing Forms and Lathe advice.RO>Date: Friday, January 30, 1998 5:03PM RO>Thanks for all of the advice concerning planing forms. I find makingRO>these tools in metal a little awkward my background is in wood. TheRO>conceptRO>of filing a bevel with a 60 degree file and it working is a littleRO>unbelievable at this point. I do appreciate the advice concerningRO>patience. Its funny, I spend last weekend with Wayne Cattanach in NewRO>Jersey and the entire next week I am on the phone all over the countryRO>assembling tools and materials and having ten pound cataloguesdeliveredRO>toRO>the house. This is a great sport ! I have been looking into smallRO>lathesRO>to use in rod making . What would be a good diameter for a spindleshaftRO>hole. Grizzly Imports has an interesting lathe for $150 with a castbedRO>and 3/8 inch spindle hole any ideas....... Dave If you like Grizzly stuff, try Harbor Freight too. I think a lot oftheir stuff is the same or almost the same as Grizzly's Chineseproducts. H.F. has some good discounts if you wait (a la Sears) and are near oneof their stores. (different prices than catalog/web site) I think theyhave a wood lathe for under $100. Metal lathes start at ~$350. Don Burns from channer@frontier.net Fri Jan 30 20:10:38 1998 Subject: color preserver Jon Linvet;The only product I have used, and I have tried them all, that will helppreserve the color of your thread and still bind it to the shaft is DaveLeClair's 3 part polyurethane blend.It will still darken the threadsomewhat, but not as much as varnish, and you will have to scrape orshavethe wraps off if you ever have to re-do them. I use two coats before Ivarnish the rod and it works for me. I have tried laquer ( wraps crackedfirst time fishing), Gudebrod ( blotchy on lite colored thread) and U-40 (even blotchier than Gudebrod ) to no avail. Dave's stuff is the best I haveused and is compatable with spar varnish. He can be reached at the Fly andRod Room. Check TPF for address and phone #. He belongs to this list, somaybe he will respond. Hey!, Dave, you out there? Please don't stop sellingyour poly, I'll be S.O.L. for my wraps.John ChannerDurango, Co. from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Jan 30 20:43:05 1998 Subject: Re: Planing Forms and Lathe advice. Woodcraft has tons of small lathes. I have a big Nova 3000 on a standmade out of 8" steel I-beam; but I do lots of other turning. The littlebrother of this is the Nova Comet, a bench top wood lathe. Not sure theheadstock through hole diameter. Carba tech also makes a good smalllathe, and there's the Klein lathe. I'm almost sorry I didn't get a decent little metal working lathe forreel seats, ferrules, sliding bands and the like. Maybe I'll find agood used South Bend 10" for less than a thousand dollars someday . . .. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Jan 30 20:51:34 1998 Subject: final measurements I'm having some trouble with my final dimensions being fine in theforms, strips have good 60 degree angles and are in close agreement onall three diameters flat to edge, but they measure fat on the dialindicator. The but section was fine, but the tips (both of 'em) are'fat.'Any ideas? Brian from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Jan 30 20:57:39 1998 Subject: Re: color preserver-three in one Poly-Varnish-Eng. BronzedGuides. John, thanks for the nice words.I'm glad you like my poly-varnish.I stillsell it in one once bottles for $2.50. I've got a new brochure being printed.Newitems.I'm also going to keep selling my English Bronzed Guides.I was going todropthem,but too many guys still want them ,so i'll keep them comming. If anyone wants one of my new brochures,just E-mail me and I willsendyou out one. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Jan 30 21:25:14 1998 Sat, 31 Jan 1998 11:25:04 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Nodeless Rods On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Thoman, Brian wrote: A question for the nodeless builders, when aligning the strips do youtry to line up the splices like you do nodes? Or, does this even matterwhen going "nodeless?" Is there a specific splice alignment patternsuch as 2x2x2 or 3x3? Brian I can't tell if there is any difference in aligning the scafrs or not so I don't bother trying. What I do do is make 3 (complete) splines with all the scarfs running in one direction then the other 3 all running in the other then ensure each spline has scarfs running opposite the one next to it. As it happens without realy trying the scarfs usually wind up somewhat staggered buy a few inches.As there aren't nodes to disrupt the grain all I think you need to do is stagger the scarfs to avoid them being next to each other for visual and possibly structural reasons. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Jan 30 21:38:39 1998 Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube Sir D.,I am using a 6" diam. drip tube and leaving the sticks in it to dry out ofthe dust of my shop. It seems to have improved my cosmetics but theinitialcost is a bit high, including the 7 gal. of undiluted Helmsman spar varnish.I would be interested in your improvements.Regards ,Hank. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Jan 30 22:58:31 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sat, 31Jan 1998 00:00:47 -0500 Subject: Heating Nodeless. I am curious how you nodeless rod builders are heat treating the cane. Up until now I have been putting the split pieces on a cookie sheet. However, I do not like the results. The short sections bow and I would like to avoid this result if possible. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Jan 30 23:31:43 1998 Subject: Japaning? All, Can anyone tell me how to "japan" a ferrule - I need to make them goldin color. Don Burns from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri Jan 30 23:34:27 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id FAA12841 for; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 05:34:22 GMT Subject: Re: final measurements Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: I'm having some trouble with my final dimensions being fine in theforms, strips have good 60 degree angles and are in close agreement onall three diameters flat to edge, but they measure fat on the dialindicator. The but section was fine, but the tips (both of 'em) are'fat.'Any ideas? Brian, here are the mistakes I have made that resulted in the sameproblem you describe. 1. took the diameter and applied it like it wasthe radius. - this is nasty! 2. didn't make sure the strip was staying all the way down in theplaning form. - felt very sheepish! 3. forgot to mike the pith edge toenamel flat. - I got to start over when I figured it out I had gone way tofar.Each of these resulted in lots of extra work and a few tears for thelast one.Hope you can figure out what went wrong. Bryant C. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jan 31 00:49:38 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Have you tried the solution in Garrison/Carmichael 2nd ed. pg118? I didand Ilove the color of bronzy-brown Bailey Wood ferrules turned. But it'sprobablytoo dark for what you need. The REC reelseat turned out kinda splotchy nomatter how much I cleaned it with acetone, perhaps it's a slightlydifferentalloy. But try it sometime. nolonger need to use my girlfriend's computer! Rob Hoffhines from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Jan 31 01:41:53 1998 Subject: Re: final measurements Brian -Been fighting a major cold - sleeping when you called. The mostcommonreason for fat strips is the point of the depth gauge is not a true point. Ihave several extras - how do we get one down your way Under The WeatherWayne from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Jan 31 07:42:32 1998 IAA20325 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 08:43:35 -0500 Subject: Re: Heating Nodeless. Jon Read the articles on the Rodmaker's Home Page - Heat the sectionsBEFORE spliting. This way they split much easier also and do not curl. Chris On Fri, 30 Jan 1998 23:56:31 +0000, Jon Lintvet wrote: I am curious how you nodeless rod builders are heat treating the cane. Up until now I have been putting the split pieces on a cookie sheet. However, I do not like the results. The short sections bow and I would like to avoid this result if possible. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 Regards Chris from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jan 31 07:47:10 1998 Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:47:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Heating Nodeless. On Fri, 30 Jan 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: I am curious how you nodeless rod builders are heat treating the cane. Up until now I have been putting the split pieces on a cookie sheet. However, I do not like the results. The short sections bow and I would like to avoid this result if possible. That's what I do, I find the sticks will straighten out if left in the open during high humidity, this of course isn't desirable. I guess the bending is just the cane drying out more on the pith side. When you start planing the splines this bend will reduce to nothing by the time you finish. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@brinet.com Sat Jan 31 07:49:11 1998 08:53:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube SalarFly@aol.com wrote: interest in the "drip dip tube" with several people contactingme via private email asking questions about it. I have no if there is interest in it, I thought I would post some ofmy improvements. The original post is in the archives under September1995 I have since reduced the "drip tube" since I posted thedescription to not even using a valve at all. I drilled a 3/16hole in the bottom cap and got a cork that fits. Put the corkin, fill the tube (use a paint strainer), position your rod - forme it's a blank, I don't varnish my rods with the guides on.As a matter of fact this method isn't too good for varnishingwith guides on since you have to stop and let the varnish drainoff the guides as they come out of the varnish. Put your varnishcan under the tube, and pull the cork. The drain rate is entirely dependent on the viscosity of yourvarnish (some of them tend to be fairly thick), and the size ofthe hole you drill. Some experimentation is required. I have foundthe slower the drain rate, the better. I am operating in the one totwo inches per minute range right now. Why not install a faucet on the bottom and just open it to the rate youwant? When you take the rod out, run some cleaner through to clean. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Jan 31 07:56:53 1998 Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:56:43 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Domestic bliss?!? Nothing to do with rods, but I thought you might like to read this.I've been working at doing some re-framing of my boat while it's on the hard and I was making what we call here a Samson Post which as the name suggests is a big piece of wood used to belay the main sheet as well as a support for cockpit seats and a bulkhead, so it's fairly sizeable. I took measurements and made this lump of wood here at home on the bench I of late have been making rods on. I was using a tape measure and my little girl came up to me and asked if I'd lost my "watch thing" (dial caliper) and my wife who is very supportive but never backward in coming forwardto jest at my many varied foibles said "no Holly, daddy dosn't need to be within the nearest thou for this, just the nearest boat". Droll, I know but I had a chortle. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from wfmack@evansville.net Sat Jan 31 08:32:46 1998 via sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) ()(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: planing forms DRinker370@aol.com wrote: how many hours can I expect to draw file the initial surface before itisflat. Also , should draw filing be followed by a stone or is the filingsurface OK. Any advice on retaining the flat surface lengthwise. thanksdaveDave--If my experience with it is any indicator, it will take a longtime. 60 hours would have been optimistic for me. One thing I did wasfirst use a belt sanderwith 60 grit paper. There is a pendency to roundor crown the top of the form when doing this, even if you use a sandingframe and are careful (you'll want to check with a thin flatedge andstrong light from behing it), but since was the second one I made (thefirst moved vertically when opening because the holes weren't drilledcarefullt enough) I was willing to try a "shortcut." Still took wayover 60 hours. In my case the bar I bought was impossible to line up100% exctly with each surface the same height to begin with. If thereis such a thing out there as a straight 3/4 cold rooled bar, the workwould have taken less than 1/3 the time it took. Also, after sandingyou will still do a lot of file work. Use a Nicholson file, not animport. I bought both, and the Nicholson was many times better. Get afile cleaner (wire brush). You'll use it after almost every pass. Iwore out a couple of leather gloves protecting my fingers. I opened theforms slightly (tried for exactly .050 all the way along, for the bottmof the file to clear the edges. Used an el cheapo MSC dial guage stuckthrough a block of wood with starrett 60 degree point (the points thatcame from MSC in a kit were not 60 degrees). My friend Chester bought aform when I was about 1/2 way through my filing--and he has made atleast two rods already--so if you are in a hurry, buying a good set offorms would make sense. On the other hand it is kind of fn in amasochistic sort of way! Godd luck; let us know how it works out. Bill from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Jan 31 09:01:15 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Japanning? I don't have access to Garrison's 2nd addition and I don't need to buyit as I have the first addition, is it possible for you to email me thesolution on pg 118?Patrick ----------From: Nodewrrior@aol.com[SMTP:Nodewrrior@aol.com] Sent: Friday, January 30, 1998 10:14 PM Subject: Re: Japaning? Have you tried the solution in Garrison/Carmichael 2nd ed. pg118? Idid and Ilove the color of bronzy-brown Bailey Wood ferrules turned. But it'sprobablytoo dark for what you need. The REC reelseat turned out kinda splotchynomatter how much I cleaned it with acetone, perhaps it's a slightlydifferentalloy. But try it sometime. above...I nolonger need to use my girlfriend's computer! Rob Hoffhines from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Jan 31 09:23:02 1998 ix4.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Heating Nodeless. I am curious how you nodeless rod builders are heat treating the cane. Up until now I have been putting the split pieces on a cookie sheet. However, I do not like the results. The short sections bow and I would like to avoid this result if possible. I kind of like heat treating before splitting but I tried splitting first.I bundled the splits in bunches of six and bound them using an old homadebobbin and some quilting thread. The idea was to let the heat do some ofthe straightning. It worked, they came out straight. If you are heatinghigh temp for a short period of time, splitting first would probably givethe most uniform temperature distribution but if you are heating at a slowenough rate for the bamboo temperature to equalize, I prefer heatingbeforesplitting. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jan 31 09:23:48 1998 Subject: Re: Carmichael oxidizing Okay, here it is:-One cup plain tap water-"at least 3 tablespoons (I just heaped them) of GRANULATED Kodak fixer"stirred in until "uniformly saturated".-4 or 5 drops of concetrated nitric acid stirred in.Clean your nickel part with actone and dip it in. It seems to go all of asudden, and on some NS seems to run away in a hurry to a richpurple/black. Onmy ferrules though, it went steadily to a old penny shade-just shiny.It's worth checking out. My client LOVED it! Hoffhines from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Jan 31 10:29:01 1998 Subject: Re: Woodworking bench -Reply -Reply RON WILHELM wrote: Ron, Yes, am interested in a simple design with good stability. TheScandanavian design are appealing. I have a goodsupply of white ash and white oak so I can make a good sfc. I amparticularly interested in a simple but stable tableleg design. Bench height is of importance for hand planing. Have noticedserveral heights from 30" to 34". I want tobe kind to my back and arm joints. Whatever you have or can get easilywould be fine. Thanks for your interest andtime. ron An ancient rule, told me by my Father years ago, says your bench should bethe same height as that of your hip bone. from rclarke@eou.edu Sat Jan 31 11:28:58 1998 Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube Hank, I dilute varnish to use in my tube, it works well, also reduces those"waves" that can turn up. Hope to switch to a spayer sometime in the nearfuture. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: FISHWOOL@aol.com Subject: Re: Drip Dip TubeDate: Friday, January 30, 1998 7:22 PM Sir D.,I am using a 6" diam. drip tube and leaving the sticks in it to dryout ofthe dust of my shop. It seems to have improved my cosmetics but theinitialcost is a bit high, including the 7 gal. of undiluted Helmsman sparvarnish.I would be interested in your improvements.Regards ,Hank. from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 31 12:31:27 1998 Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube In a message dated 1/31/98 5:52:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,flyfisher@brinet.com writes: Why not install a faucet on the bottom and just open it to the rate youwant? When you take the rod out, run some cleaner through to clean. My original drip tube had a valve and I could adjust the drain rate. It turned out to be an unnecessary complication. The viscosityof the varnish does not change that much, and when it does itgets thicker, slowing down the drain rate. I don't think the drainrate can be too slow (other than not draining at all). Seems likethe slower the drain rate, the smoother the finish. I also leave the rod in the tube until the varnish is set up - nodust on the varnish. If you do that you have to put somepaint thinner in a little can and submerge your valve init from the outside or the varnish will harden in yourvalve. But again, unless you use different brands ofvarnish with different viscosities the right sized holeis all you need. Darryl Hayashida from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Sat Jan 31 12:44:57 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 261 0600 Subject: Tap for Wood Planing Forms I am getting materials together to make a set of wood planing formsfollowing the basic instructions found on Bruce Conner's pages. Oneitem I am confused about is the tap for the shoulder bolds and setscrews. I have looked in several catalogs and have found many taps butthey seem to be of several styles and mostly for metal work. If any ofyou have made wooden forms, would you let me know specifically whatkindof taps you used? Thanks a lot! Jim Kubichek from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 31 12:50:00 1998 Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube In a message dated 1/30/98 7:40:45 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: I am using a 6" diam. drip tube and leaving the sticks in it to dry outofthe dust of my shop. It seems to have improved my cosmetics but theinitialcost is a bit high, including the 7 gal. of undiluted Helmsman sparvarnish. I would be interested in your improvements. Well, right away I would say use a smaller dia. tube. There isn't anyreason you can't use a 1" dia. PVC pipe unless you are doing severalrods at once. A 1" pipe takes less than a half gallon to fill (dependingon length). Darryl Hayashida from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Jan 31 13:02:27 1998 Subject: Re: Special threads TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Off the topic I know, but does anyone know what the proper thread is forshotgun cleaning rod accessories. I'm trying to make a fancy ebony andNS rod 5/16-27, but could also be 5/16-26 or 5/16-28. I have about gone blindlookingat thread gauges and can't make a decision. Tom:When that happens to me, and I'm getting blinder than a bat, I eithertryscrewing the thread into a series of threaded holes on a wire stripper or Idrilland tap a piece of scrap and then try the treaded piece in that. If they arelikeblack powder accessories, the threads can be anything from manufacturertomanufacturer.George from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Jan 31 13:09:31 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Don,If you have an air brush,here is one way to put a hard,gold finishon yourferrules,or whatever. Order some gold (and brown ) Powder Paint fromJANN'SNETCRAFT. You may want to mix alittle brown with the gold to get theexactcolor you want. Mix the Powder Paint with accitone. Place this in your airbrush.Spray your ferrule with the mixture. Use a couple of lite coats instead ofoneheavy coat. Let it dry. Then hang in an oven ( at the temp. on the can ofPowderPaint ) for the amount of time they say. Then remove from the oven and letcool. This finish is very,very hard . I've used it on ferrules,guides and reelseat hardware. If you don't have the phone # or address for JANN'S,let meknow.I've got it in my shop. Good Luck,Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Jan 31 13:18:28 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Don,Another way to get that gold color you want,is to send me yourferrules andI can Bronze plate them for you. This is sort of a gold color. I normallydarken theBronze finish to get what they call English Bronze. But, if I don't darken itandleave it as it is ,it comes out of the plating bath as a gold golor. I charge$10.00per set of ferrules or to do a reel seat. This includes the return shipping. Dave LeClair from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Jan 31 13:20:48 1998 Subject: Re: Tap for Wood Planing Forms In a message dated 1/31/98 10:46:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us writes: I have looked in several catalogs and have found many taps butthey seem to be of several styles and mostly for metal work. If any ofyou have made wooden forms, would you let me know specifically whatkindof taps you used? Thanks a lot! I've never made wooden forms, but if I did, I would get metal nutsthat fit my bolts and cut recesses the right size in the wood, andglue the nuts in place. Darryl Hayashida from harry37@epix.net Sat Jan 31 17:20:11 1998 SAA18216 Subject: Re: Carmichael oxidizing Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: Okay, here it is:-One cup plain tap water-"at least 3 tablespoons (I just heaped them) of GRANULATED Kodakfixer"stirred inuntil "uniformly saturated".-4 or 5 drops of concetrated nitric acid stirred in.Clean your nickel part with actone and dip it in. It seems to go all of asudden, and on some NS seems to run away in a hurry to a richpurple/black. Onmy ferrules though, it went steadily to a old penny shade-just shiny.It's worth checking out. My client LOVED it! Hoffhines How durable is this finish? It sounds nice, but will it last on highwear surfaces like threads on a reel seat? Greg Kuntz (Chemist wannabe) from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Jan 31 17:51:16 1998 Subject: Re: Tap for Wood Planing Forms jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: I am getting materials together to make a set of wood planing formsfollowing the basic instructions found on Bruce Conner's pages. Oneitem I am confused about is the tap for the shoulder bolds and setscrews. I have looked in several catalogs and have found many taps butthey seem to be of several styles and mostly for metal work. If any ofyou have made wooden forms, would you let me know specifically whatkindof taps you used? Thanks a lot! Jim Kubichek I use maple for my forms, ground dowel pins and push pull screws both1/4" - 28. Threads are cut with a regular "metal" tap. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Jan 31 17:51:24 1998 Subject: Re: A nodeless experience! Bopep wrote: Has anybody done nodeless on a longer (8'6") rod? Any reason not to? Hoffhines Just finishing a F. E. Thomas Special taper that's 9' - 6" with twotips from richjez@enteract.com Sat Jan 31 18:13:43 1998 0000 (207.229.149.235) Subject: Re: color preserver-three in one Poly-Varnish-Eng. BronzedGuides. I would like a brocure. If they are smail my address is Rich Jezioro37021 Sheridan Rd. Waukegan IL 60087 At 09:49 PM 1/30/98 EST, you wrote:John, thanks for the nice words.I'm glad you like my poly-varnish.Istillsell it in one once bottles for $2.50. I've got a new brochure beingprinted.Newitems.I'm also going to keep selling my English Bronzed Guides.I was going todropthem,but too many guys still want them ,so i'll keep them comming. If anyone wants one of my new brochures,just E-mail me and I willsendyou out one. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Jan 31 18:24:26 1998 Subject: Re: Carmichael oxidizing So far it seems as durable as any other formulas I've tried. Better than BCbrass black and as good as the Payne formula. I've always shyed away fromdoing reel seat threads just cap and rings. Rob from channer@frontier.net Sat Jan 31 19:04:57 1998 Subject: planing forms All;I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them was drivingmecrazy. After much searching, I finally found someone with a mill that waswilling to try to mill them for me. To make a long story shorter, it was adisaster, they came back full of deep swirl marks. In desperation I tookmyPorter-Cable power plane to them.This plane has a spiral carbide tippedcutter on it and set to the litest possible setting cleaned up my formsbeatifully in about an hour. You must be careful about rocking the plane asyou go down the forms and the plane has a non-removeable fenceso youmustposition your forms on the edge of your bench, but it really worked welland didn't destroy the blade on the plane either. Blades are about $80.00so this was a plus. For those of you that don,t own one, or can't borrowone from an understanding crapenter friend, i have seen them at rentalplaces, but I wouldn't tell them what your using it on, get the insurance.It is important to use the spirtal flute carbide cutter, Ithink you woulddestoy anything else. Also, I found that the plane started on the metalmusch better if I started it on a boars the same thickness positioned upagainst the back end of the metal forms. Hope this windage has been ofhelpto some.John ChannerDurango, Co. from channer@frontier.net Sat Jan 31 19:07:43 1998 Subject: planing forms All;Almost forgot, I used my belt sander to remove the last little ripples fromthe plane.John Channer from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Jan 31 20:13:36 1998 Subject: Re: Carmichael oxidizing Greg,I have been oxidizing N/S hardware for many years. You must coatthe hardware with a clear coating such as Staybright with UV protection.Thiswillkeep it from scratching too easy and keep it from fading from the sun. Idon'tcoat the threaded barrel with the clear because it will tend to bind thethreads.I've never had a wear problem with the threaded part being oxidized. Hopethis helps. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Jan 31 20:20:21 1998 Subject: Re: color preserver-three in one Poly-Varnish-Eng. BronzedGuides. Rich,They should be ready next week. I'll send you one. Thanks, Dave L. from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Sat Jan 31 21:23:05 1998 WAA30299 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:22:50-0500 Subject: Re: Tap for Wood Planing Forms At 12:43 PM 1/31/98 -0600, you wrote:I am getting materials together to make a set of wood planing formsfollowing the basic instructions found on Bruce Conner's pages. Oneitem I am confused about is the tap for the shoulder bolds and setscrews. I have looked in several catalogs and have found many taps butthey seem to be of several styles and mostly for metal work. If any ofyou have made wooden forms, would you let me know specifically whatkindof taps you used? Thanks a lot! Jim Kubichek Jim, I've built several sets of wood forms using 1/4 20 threads in hardwoodwithout any problems. I like to use the socket head cap screws.Sean from moran@lincoln.midcoast.com Sat Jan 31 21:23:05 1998 WAA30478 for ; Sat, 31 Jan 1998 22:22:51-0500 Subject: Re: Tap for Wood Planing Forms At 01:56 PM 1/31/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 1/31/98 10:46:19 AM Pacific Standard Time,jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us writes: I have looked in several catalogs and have found many taps butthey seem to be of several styles and mostly for metal work. If any ofyou have made wooden forms, would you let me know specifically whatkindof taps you used? Thanks a lot! I've never made wooden forms, but if I did, I would get metal nutsthat fit my bolts and cut recesses the right size in the wood, andglue the nuts in place. Darryl Hayashida You don't have to get that complicated. Use a 6 penny nail at the centerof the station and put a screw on either side of the nail to work in a pushpullfashion. You can cut threads into hardwood easily and they hold up fairlywell.Sean from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jan 31 21:33:35 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Books Bill,I would be interested in seeing a list of your books. I may be interested inthem all or just certain titles if you are so inclined to sell them that way.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Jan 31 22:05:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Tap for Wood Planing Forms If you are making your forms out of hard maple you can tap them withregularmetal taps. I build guns and have used many a metel tap on the maple withgood results.bret from rkovalak@bright.net Sat Jan 31 22:08:34 1998 sparticus.bright.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/FNG) with ESMTP id XAA07991; Sat, 31 Subject: Workbench Plans Final Installment E088475ED1D9ECAB7C84C8A7" --------------E088475ED1D9ECAB7C84C8A7 RON W: Workbench Plans _ Final Installment (Excuse the bandwidth) Here are the rest of the workbench articles. Aside from the Moser andKlausz benches (my favorites), I would recommend theplans in Woodsmith as the best choice. However, there are many good will help in the final design that best suits your needs. The Woodworker's Journal (Magazine) Vol. 14 No. 5 September/October 1990WorkbenchA straightforward bench and portable tool chest that wheels under thebench. No-nonsense bench. American Woodworker (Magazine) February 1991, Issue No. 18No-Bull WorkbenchSimple fir/poplar base using a pre-laminated maple top. December 1994, #42Plywood-Top WorkbenchShaker design. Very stylish. Under-top storage unit included.. April 1997, #58Full-Featured Workbench Fine Woodworking (Magazine) September/October 1980, No. 24Softwood WorkbenchUses of leg-vises. May/June 1982, No. 34 (JUST AN EXTRA)Fly Rods from Bamboo by L.U.BeitzNice article! July/August 1985, No. 53Classic WorkbenchDesigned by Frank Klausz. Traditional European bench. July/August 1987, No. 6518th Century WorkbenchA very simple bench styled in the ways of the 18th century. December 1991, No. 91Easy-to-Build WorkbenchSimple bolt-together style. October 1993, No. 102Workbenches in the Shaker TraditionBench from the shop of Thomas Moser. Very large design. Would need tobe scaled for small shop. This is a truecabinet-style bench. Good Luck.--Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net --------------E088475ED1D9ECAB7C84C8A7 RON W: (Excuse the bandwidth) Moserand Klausz benches (my favorites), I would recommend the plans inWoodsmith garnered from these articles that will help in the final design that bestsuits your needs. The Woodworker's Journal (Magazine) September/October 1990WorkbenchA straightforward bench and portable tool chest that wheels under American Woodworker (Magazine) February 1991, Issue No. 18No-Bull WorkbenchSimple fir/poplar base using a pre-laminated maple top. Plywood-Top Workbench included.. April 1997, #58Full-Featured Workbench the height. Fine Woodworking (Magazine) September/October 1980, No. 24Softwood WorkbenchUses of leg-vises. Fly Rods from Bamboo by L.U.BeitzNice article! Classic Workbench July/August 1987, No. 6518th Century WorkbenchA very simple bench styled in the ways of the 18th century. December 1991, No. 91Easy-to-Build WorkbenchSimple bolt-together style. October 1993, No. 102Workbenches in the Shaker Tradition bench. Good Luck.--Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net --------------E088475ED1D9ECAB7C84C8A7-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Jan 31 22:18:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Drip Dip Tube Darryl,I, too, leave the sticks in the tube to dry-I can remove the valve to cleanit .Hank.P.S.I varnish 3 or 4 sticks at once, dpending on whether it's a 2tip 2 or 3pc. rod. A 1" tube won't let me dry 'em in the tube without a lot more timeinvolved. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Jan 31 22:22:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Special threads Tom and George, I know from my days in a gun shop that Outers and Hoppes usedifferentthreads.I can ask my former employer what threads each uses if you like.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Jan 31 22:24:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Drip Dip Tube Robert,I tried that (diluting) and had poor results with Helmsman spar. I'musingfull strength, sanding between just 2 coats. I trashed 4 gal of Helmsmanand 3gallons of turpentine playing around with various dilutions-now if I canjustget those tiny bits of dust out of the varnish!#- ?*&^_!Regards,Hank.