from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 1 08:10:20 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: planing forms john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them was drivingmecrazy. >Snip from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 1 08:15:15 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Waterstone flattening Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I noticed the discussion onwaterstones tendency to be less than perfectly flat. I just got one, a1000/6000 combo with Nagura stone, and it doesn't sharpen nearrly asquickly as fine sandpaper on glass. I don't want to buy a $75 diamondstone to flatten a $30 waterstone. How would one flatten with glass andsandpaper? 1000 grit? 800 grit? 2000 grit? No paper at all?Thanks in advanceHarry Boyd from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 1 08:43:05 1998 Subject: planing forms Harry;A planer designed for metal sounds like the ideal tool to me, I didn't knowthere was such a critter.Talk to your friend, but it seems to me that ifyour forms wre bolted together first, then run through his planer, theyshould come out either perfect or maybe just needing a slite touch upbefore grooving.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 1 09:02:21 1998 Subject: stress curves Any and All;I've just been at Frank Stetzer's version of Hexrod (BTW, many thanks toFrank from me and my server, I think my bill is going to increasedramatically). I was wondering if anyone would care to help me tounderstand how the differences in stress curve shapes when comparingrodsof the same length and line wieght translate into different rod actionsand ability to roll cast, distance cast, etc. I was comparing Garrison's212, Dickersons 8014 and Wayne's 8052 this morning and they all haveverydifferent and individual stress curves. I have built the Garrison rod andknow how it casts and will build the others as soon as time and budgetallow, but I would like broaden my understanding of theory first. Pleaseemail me direct with any comments.Thanks in advance.John(stress curve challenged)ChannerDurango, Co. from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 1 09:14:41 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdriving mecrazy. >Snip I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metal planer,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Any suggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydOnce you take the hard "skin" off of CRS, stresses are relieved and itbegins to do a dimensional "dance". If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.Remember, Garrison used CRS because it was cheap and available. Thereare other products.John from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 1 10:07:42 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: planing forms J. C. Zimny wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdrivingme crazy. >Snip > I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metal planer,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Any suggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydJZ wrote ... If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.... There are other products.Forgive my ignorance, John, but what is normalized steel? If youhavesuggestions for materials other than CRS, I'd love to hear them. Thanks, Harry from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 10:26:03 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA7807 Subject: Re: Books Hi, If you have Stuart Kirkfield's book, I am interested. As for getting ridof theentire lot to people who will appreciate them, I'd suggest first getting alist to-gether. Then post to the classified ad at http://www.flyfishing.com orsomeof the other ones. Then you'll be prepared when you get responses asking Good luck,George ----------From: Bill Fink Subject: BooksDate: Thursday, January 29, 1998 4:08 PM To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to passonto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadlytheyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collectionofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 1 10:35:05 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms-Larger Reel Seat-Up or Down John,I forgot to ask you if you want the larger reel seat i'm making foryou,my normal up-locking or do you want me to make it down-locking like theothertwo? Dave LeClair from madcliff@mssl.uswest.net Sun Feb 1 10:39:21 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA01021 for Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube I've been diluting Helmsman about 10% with mineral spirits for dipping and have gotten excellent results. I have a question for you folks who are using polyurethane and drying rods in the tube to keep dust out. Are you doing anything special with regard to the recoat time (normally 2-8 hours)? I tried drying a rod in a 3" tube a couple of years ago, and it styed tacky for a day and a half. This was in the summer, with the temperature in the 80s nd low humidity. --Matt C.Missoula, Montana from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 1 10:48:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Special threads In a message dated 2/1/98 4:28:34 AM, you wrote: Hank - Thanks for the offer, but I have determined to go with the Hoppe'sthread, which is 5/16-27. Listmember Larry Blan advises me that anadapter isavailable from Brownells that would also allow the use of Britishstandardimplements. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 1 11:10:19 1998 Subject: Makers Rod Update If you haven't seen it yet, the current issue of Fly Rod & Reel(march/april) is on the street. In it you will see the excellent newsreleasethat Jim Butler did for The Makers Rod including Larry Cory's artwork. I'msure that this will be a great help in getting the project rolling towards asell out. As I sit at my computer I can look over the clutter across the loftand see cartons and cartons of shipping tubes containing the many partsthatin the next little bit will become the rod. In talking with Steve Southardyesterday we are both still convinced that however the outcome theprojectwill be a suscess. The potential for the local watersheds is 2 1/2 timesthatof the local fund raising of the George Mason Chapter banquet and raffles.Mixthat in with the matching funds that are consistantly made available andyoubegin to see the significance that this fund raiser could have on the localfisheries.Besides the FR&R piece - Mark Metcalf at The Bamboo Fly Rod has givenspace as well (hope to see something the first of next week) along withseveral other flyfishing organization newsletters and local newspapers.As a side issue concerning the planning of TTBBBQ IV. We are looking tokeep the costs of both the Rodmakers get together and the BBQ at aminimal butyet have the same offerings as in the years past (aprons - Picnic at Franks-Friday night pizza party hence forth to be known as Rodmakers RoadkillCookoff- The BBQ). One of the overheads that many may not realize is the cost ofthetent for the weekend which runs in the $500 - $600.And as the time to the get together grows nearer perhaps some thoughttothe activities - a big issue from last year is the need for added workspacewhich will be addressed with the addition of several workbenches underthetent. So in your plans include your tools for tuning and use.Well I need to take one of those six little pills that doc gave me to curethe crud. LaterWayne from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Feb 1 12:28:41 1998 Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube In a message dated 2/1/98 8:42:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,madcliff@mssl.uswest.net writes: I have a question for you folks who are using polyurethane and drying rods in the tube to keep dust out. Are you doing anything special with regard to the recoat time (normally 2-8 hours)? I tried drying a rod in a 3" tube a couple of years ago, and it styed tacky for a day and a half. This was in the summer, with the temperature in the 80s nd low humidity. I leave my rods in the tube overnight with a rag draped over the top.since rod making isn't my day job, I can't recoat any sooner than18 hours. For final drying, once the varnish sets up, but still sortof soft, I take the rod out and hang it up from a rafter. When it is atthat point dust won't stick, but if you press your finger on the varnishit will leave an impression. I leave it to dry for at least three daysbefore I start handling it. Another factor for me might be the factthat I thin the polyurethane by 20% with paint thinner. I don't likethe extra thick glossy varnish jobs I've seen on some rods, it tendsto round out the hex points. I like flat flats and sharp hex points. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Feb 1 12:47:06 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: hide glue Making a Waterproof Hot Hide Glue Anyone who has built a violin or cello with high quality hot hide glueonly to watch it come apart in the humidity of a hot muggysummer day will find this method interesting. Because it is so simple tomake, I don't doubt that the old Italian violin makers knewabout it and used it. After all, they had to deal with the same problemsof humidity that we do. Incidentally, this method also rendersthe dried glue less susceptible to attack from molds, insects, andbacteria. I found this method and adapted it from a book called Henley's Formulas.It can not be found in the section heading of glues orwaterproof glues. Rather it is hidden somewhere in the book underanother heading which I can't remember. In fact, the authordescribes the accident that caused the discovery but only as it relatedto something else.> My method for making waterproof hide glue is as follows: make a supersaturated solution of alum (aluminum sulfate). Next, takeone teaspoon of this solution and add it to a quart of water. Then usethis water to soften your glue granules. When the glue hasabsorbed what water it will, heat it and use it. You can not add moresolution to the glue once it has been heated as it will causethe glue to coagulate into a single lump. But you can thin this "alumed"glue with tap water. I use a convex glass plate to cover myglue; it allows the condensate to drip back into the pot. Because of thepresence of alum, this glue resists spoilage for some time. Ifind also that it can be allowed to cool, chilled and reheated severaltimes before it begins to disintegrate. from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Feb 1 13:06:20 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening In a message dated 2/1/98 6:21:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I use a rather large 18" diameter circular flat metal plate. I justsprinkle water on it and start swirling it around. I have used apiece of plate glass, and it works okay, but the sound of thewaterstone grinding on the glass got on my nerves. But hey, if the fine sandpaper sharpening method works foryou, then do it that way. I haven't tried it myself, but I readabout it a long time ago in a woodworking magazine, andI don't see why it wouldn't work. The same principles apply,polish the back of your blade, and polish off the microscopicburr, and it should be just as sharp. Darryl Hayashida from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sun Feb 1 13:42:57 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size SalarFly wrote: Take the 45" measurement, subtract it from the 50" measurement,divide by 5 (the distance from 45 to 50). This is the diameter changeper inch. Since you are looking for the 48" measurement, which is twoinches from the 50" measurement, take the diameter change per inch,multiply by two and subtract it form the 50" measurement. This isn't meant to be a flame or anything, but isn't it obvious how tofigure this out? Or am I turning into the list curmudgeon? Darryl Hayashida Just remember, everyone is ignorant, just in different areas. from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 1 13:58:47 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size george, darryl, others. I sent him the entire rod in 1 in. increments, i think, subsequently, hedecided to build a different rod? jerry from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Feb 1 15:15:05 1998 Subject: Classicane? All, I bought a near-mint (unfished - varnish on one stripper winding iscracked) 9' Classicane "Steve Morgan" (3/2) rod today, bag & tube. Butt& mid have nice 3x3 node spacing, tips less successful at spacings. I was told that the rod was maybe 10 years old, no other details exceptmaybe it's from a Colorado company. Can anyone tell me about the builder and/or any other details? Is thereany source books with any Classicane info? Lastly, how about it's marketprice? Don Burns from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 17:12:06 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA11850 Subject: Re: Classicane? Believe Classicane was/is a California company though in the 70s some oftheir rods were apparently built (or assembled, since that is what DeBellappears to have done a lot of) by Fred DeBell in Denver. Try here for someinfo http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm At 12:28 PM 2/1/98 -0600, you wrote:All, I bought a near-mint (unfished - varnish on one stripper winding iscracked) 9' Classicane "Steve Morgan" (3/2) rod today, bag & tube. Butt& mid have nice 3x3 node spacing, tips less successful at spacings. I was told that the rod was maybe 10 years old, no other details exceptmaybe it's from a Colorado company. Can anyone tell me about the builder and/or any other details? Is thereany source books with any Classicane info? Lastly, how about it's marketprice? Don Burns cc: INT:CaneClinic@aol.com Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 1 17:39:22 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves John -I'll throw out what could be termed the short explaination. Over the years I have found that the term 'stress curve' can be replacedwith a less intimidating 'character curve'. I don't know why but it seemlikeit a an easier pill to swallow for some reason. So let's take a look at whatvaries about the character of rods the generic terms fast, medium, slow,¶bolic have been and are used today - only on a newer material. A fastrodis one that when loaded in casting flexes most in the upper regions of therodand even as line (or tip load) is added increases flexing downward at aslowrate. At the other extreme is the slow rod that when loaded in castingflexeslower into the rod and quickly flexes into the handle. If you were to lookthe'character curve of each you would see this. The fast rod would have agreateramplitude then the slower rod. Defining amplitude as the difference fromhighstress values to low stress values. Remember the stress values controltheamount of material or restance to action at the different locationsthrough arod. Now let's change the statement to say - The greater the amplitude thegreater the range of loading of the rod - the lower the amplitude the lowerthe range of loading. You're familiar with what the Garrison semi - parabolic graphs to. Thegraph that best describes the parabolic would be one that looks like areversed 'J'. With the action being described as a flexible tip with a stiffmid section and a softer butt. The stress values would start highdesending tolower values that bottom out graph wise in the mid section and then raiseagain in the butt section. A parabolic can have different amplitudes thusdifferent speeds. from your example rods the Dickerson is a fast action - the garrison aslower action - the 8052 is a parabolic Wayne from lblan@provide.net Sun Feb 1 17:52:45 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening Harry; you can find diamond stones for far less than $75. It is well worththe investment. The time saved by using the diamond stone and then goingtothe fine grit waterstones is amazing. Having a good edge makesresharpeninggo much faster too. You can use silicon carbide paper on a flat piece of glass, I use a 14"x14"piece of float glass, it works just fine. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Waterstone flattening Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I noticed the discussion onwaterstones tendency to be less than perfectly flat. I just got one, a1000/6000 combo with Nagura stone, and it doesn't sharpen nearrly asquickly as fine sandpaper on glass. I don't want to buy a $75 diamondstone to flatten a $30 waterstone. How would one flatten with glass andsandpaper? 1000 grit? 800 grit? 2000 grit? No paper at all?Thanks in advanceHarry Boyd from RONGEY@aol.com Sun Feb 1 18:08:05 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening I use 320 grit wet/dry paper (dry) supported on the table of my table saw(flat) or my band saw. Seems like a piece of plate glass would be asatisfactory flat surface as well. I flatten my stone after it hasthoroughlydried, since it seems to be easier than when it is wet. My $.02. Ken Rongey from d_price@global2000.net Sun Feb 1 18:58:13 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id TAA24973 for; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:58:10 -0500 Subject: Progress Hi all,Have been working the last week on tooling up to start splitting cane.I have my rough planing form done( purpleheart 40" as per Garrison)andmy preliminary planing forms done(also purpleheart with duplex ajustingscrews ala "Garrison" 40" also).I used 1/4-20 and 5/16-24 dies for theduplex screws wich where made on my lathe.I am also 90% on my bindingmachine that I'l have to get pictures on the net somewhere soon so youcan see,easyer than trying to explain. I've deffinetly had to much freetime lately!!!!.Oh, by the way nice post Wayne on the stress curves thing!!!!!,thanks itwas very helpfull to better understand that topic!!. Dave Price (getting picts on a site soon !) from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 1 19:21:54 1998 Subject: stress curves Wayne;Thanks alot for the clarification. I have read most of the archives,including your explanation of the math involved on Jerry's homepage, but Istill didn,t quite get it.Having never cast a parabolic rod I'm still alittle mystified by that term, but from what I read , I take it that aparabolic won't collapse as soon ( orshould I say cast a longer linewithout the cast collapsing ) as a rod with a more conventional taper.Isthe curve of your 8052 fairly typical of parabolics? Also, if I alter thecurve of the Dickerson to take some ,but not all, of the hump out of themiddle,will I wind up with a slitely slower action, but one that is stillfaster than Garrison's? Thanks again for all your help.John Channer from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 1 20:10:03 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms Harry Boyd wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdrivingme crazy. >Snip > > I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metalplaner,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Anysuggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydJZ wrote ... If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.... There are other products.Forgive my ignorance, John, but what is normalized steel? If youhavesuggestions for materials other than CRS, I'd love to hear them.Thanks, HarryNormalized steel is stress relieved. John from Brandstay@aol.com Sun Feb 1 20:50:49 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening In a message dated 98-02-01 18:56:53 EST, you write: Larry, what grit diamond stone did you get/JA from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 1 20:52:50 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Drip Dip Tube Matt,I find that it takes about 3 days to get the finish hard enuf to removethesticks from the tube. This is in less than 50% r.h. with the temp. around 80deg. f. If I dilute the spar 10% it might be quicker.Regards,Hank.P.S. As I sand between coats the time between coats can be long. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:08:03 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves Wayne, Darryl, et al,Am I missing something here? I assume that the higher the stress curveatany given point the greater the bend in the rod. If the high point of thecurve is closer to the tip the "faster" the action,lower down the slower. Ifyou got a double barrel shape you might have 2 spikes on the stress curve.IfI'm all wet on this somebody ought to straighten me out, please.Hank- I just learned to turn this thing on -Woolman. from lblan@provide.net Sun Feb 1 21:16:42 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening I'm just using a fine right now. I'm still considering the medium. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening In a message dated 98-02-01 18:56:53 EST, you write: the fine grit waterstones is amazing. Having a good edge makesresharpeninggo much faster too. >> Larry, what grit diamond stone did you get/JA from DRinker370@aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:32:49 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening Ive been using a broken piece of 3/8 glass shelving and 100 or 220 gritwetdry sandpaper for years. By wetting the glass and sandpaper I retain aflatsurface that adheres nicely to the glass. I have always found cupping ofthestones to be fairly hard to stop even when carefully honing blades. Iusually touch up my stones frequently because of this. Leaving yourstonessubmerged is water is a good way to keep them in condition. Dave from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:45:57 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves The whole stress cure thing can be daunting. I hate it when a graph of arodturns out totally different from what I thought it would look like. I guessitmade a little more sense when I found a rod that casted ugly and thencouldsee why. It seems to be where a rod bends and how much as far as howpeaks andvalleys go. Comparing a Garrison 201E curve to a Payne 98 helped me grasp theconcept of how amplitude affects a rod's fastness. If you get a chance tocasta parabolic and look at a curve it seems to be a little clearer how a curveplays in the real world. This whole rod design stuff is very cool...too bad ittakes so long to actually get to try an idea out, especially if you're closebut not right on your projected goal. "I've been there, I know"-Wolfman Jack Rob from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 2 01:36:36 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves In a message dated 2/1/98 7:14:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: Am I missing something here? I assume that the higher the stresscurve atany given point the greater the bend in the rod. If the high point of thecurve is closer to the tip the "faster" the action,lower down the slower.Ifyou got a double barrel shape you might have 2 spikes on the stresscurve. IfI'm all wet on this somebody ought to straighten me out, please. Look at a Garrison rod stress curve. It goes up to it's maximumpoint, then pretty much stays there all the way to the handle. That'swhat I call a slow rod. Then look at the stress curve of the Cattanach7' 4 wt. 2 piece it has a max point near the tip, but what makes it fastis it drops down to 150,000 at about mid way to the handle. I postedmy interpretation of stress curves a few moths ago, with ascii artdrawings of the graphs and explanations. I'll see if I can dig it upagain, or perhaps someone can tell us what month to look upin the archives. Darryl Hayashida from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 03:33:35 1998 Subject: Cane tools boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0 I build regular grafite rods ect but I am interested in the art of =building with cane. Some questions and request's I have are Where can I =find the necassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And where can I get =tonkin Bamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that works with=bamboo in my area.Thanx Steve ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0 I build regular grafite rods ectbut = interested in the art of building with cane. Some questions and = are Where can I find the necassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And = can I get tonkin Bamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that = bamboo in my area.Thanx =Steve ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0-- from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Feb 2 06:55:16 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms/normalized steel Normalized steel is stress relieved.John Ok John, can one get normalized CRS, or is that an oxymoron? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Feb 2 08:44:52 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 09:08:37 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? RO>Don,RO> Another way to get that gold color you want,is to send me yourRO>ferrules andRO>I can Bronze plate them for you. This is sort of a gold color. I normallyRO>darken theRO>Bronze finish to get what they call English Bronze. But, if I don'tdarken iRO>andRO>leave it as it is ,it comes out of the plating bath as a gold golor. IchargRO>$10.00RO>per set of ferrules or to do a reel seat. This includes the returnshipping. RO> Dave LeClair Dave, I'm going to have to hold off - went buying crazy this weekend at thelocal bi- annual fishing tackle swapmeet.I ended up buying a 9' W&M Granger Deluxe and the 9' Classicane. My wifegot me away before I bought anything else. I've still got to buy my'98 fishing license and nat. forest parking permit and the wife is nothappy - the honey-do list just grew by 3 long pages. If I don't buy my license with the remains of my loot, I'll be missingout on the best local part of trout fishing season AND next month's FlyFisherman (March issue) is running an article on local Piru Creek (goodgrief is that the best stream that they can find to write about), so thelookie-loo crowds will increase 10 fold, IMHO. Might be time to start a used cane rod list I guess, 25+ rods is too afew too many. Don from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 2 10:15:50 1998 11:15:08 Subject: Browning Waterton VII Fly Rod Does anyone know anything about these fly rods? I know someone whobroke the butt section of one. Brian from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 2 10:23:24 1998 11:22:40 Subject: Heat Treating Nodeless Rods Has anyone heat treated pre-planed strips the way you do a "noded" rod?Would the splices fail at those temperatures? I cooked my sections inthe kitchen oven for 40 minutes at 300 degrees. I'm assuming that thestrips will absorb moisture (we have very high humidity, even in thewinter) in the next week or two before I'm able to plane them down andglue them. Shouldn't I heat them again? Brian "Going Nodeless!" from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Feb 2 10:39:38 1998 SVR4) Subject: RE: Waterstone flattening Try carbide powder + water on a glass plate on which you have stuck some transparent 3M plastic sheeting. That's how Veritas does it with their stone pond and it works fine for me.---------- Subject: Waterstone flattening Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I noticed the discussion onwaterstones tendency to be less than perfectly flat. I just got one, a1000/6000 combo with Nagura stone, and it doesn't sharpen nearrly asquickly as fine sandpaper on glass. I don't want to buy a $75 diamondstone to flatten a $30 waterstone. How would one flatten with glass andsandpaper? 1000 grit? 800 grit? 2000 grit? No paper at all?Thanks in advanceHarry Boyd from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 2 10:44:49 1998 Subject: Quad rod Can anyone out there help me to build a quad rod? What do I need as far asforms go etc. , etc.Bret from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 2 10:49:13 1998 Subject: Stress Curves Revisited The following is what I posted a few months ago, which was a repost from about 1 1/2 years ago. If someone has a different interpretation of stress curves, I won't be offended if you disagree with mine. Let's hear what you have to say! Darryl Hayashida ************************************************************** In it's most basic use a stress curve shows you how closea split cane rod is to breaking with the weight and length of line you specified. Garrison believed 200,000 ounces persquare inch was a good, safe upper level. In reality you cango up to 220,000 or 230,000 without any problems. Garrison himself went up to 220,000 on his lighter rods. Garrison believed that below the 140,000 point the bamboo stopped flexing. Some basic information on stress curves: The X axis is rod length, with the tip on the left and the handle on the right. The Y axis is ounces per square inch. This sounds like a pressure, as in psi, but it is really a stress measurement. The square inch refers to the area of the cross section of the rod at that point. The higher the stress curve goes, the more the rod will bend, taking the curve as a whole. I say this because a reading of 200,000 near the tip, where the rod is thin in diameter is going to bend more than a reading of 200,000 near the handle where the bamboo is thicker. But, if you compare a whole stress curve of one rod to the whole stress curve of another rod, the rod with a higher reading at the same point along the length will bend more at that point. A stress curve means nothing if you can't relate it to something. The only way you can start to see how a stress curve can help you is to graph up the stress curves of real rods and cast them. In my case I didn't have a bunch of rods to try. I had to make them. I now have a bunch of experimental rods lying around, but fortunately I was able to sell a few of the better experiments. I was also lucky in accidentally making a rod I really like (a Cattanach taper) on my third attempt, and being able to contrast that to a rod I really didn't like (a Garrison taper). As you get deeper into stress curves you can begin to pick out certaincharacteristics that tell you what kind of action the rod has, or will have if it hasn't been made yet. A Garrison rod, which I consider to be slow, has a well rounded "hump" near the tip and a fairly slow drop off as it goes towards the handle. Let's see if I can do this with ASCII art. || * * | * * * * *| * * * * *| * | * | *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The rod that I'm always raving about, the Cattanach 7' 0" 4 wt, I consider to be fairly fast. It has a stress curve like this: || * | * *| * * | * * | * * | * * *| * * * * ** *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The blip near the handle is the Cattanach hinge, and it greatly enhances roll casting. Don't forget to put it in. I did and the rod I made was a terrible roll caster. It isn't as necessary on longer rods, but on shorter rods it's definitely needed. A Paul Young Para 15, what is described as a parabolic action looks like this: || * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ Looking at this rod, and never having cast one, I would guess that it would feel fairly slow, due to the enhanced bending near the handle, but able to throw a lot of line, due to the stiff mid section. I would also guess that it could roll cast really well. There are as many variations of stress curves as there are rodmakers. This covers the slow, fast and parabolic actions. from maiello@yorku.ca Mon Feb 2 11:04:49 1998 (oW7/gB6pbWoavyxmc28EqWC4DTEreP8f@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA21453 for ;Mon, 2 Feb Subject: Re: planing forms I made a set of forms from 3/4" CRS.Every machininst I talked to said It would bow if I tried to take the skinoff. I used a fly cutter and lots of coolant, and took off very little in onepass, and it was fine.It did need some touching up with a file because of the swirls, butnothing like 40 hours. John makes a good point, since if you get a good piece in the first place,it will save you that much work. If you buy a 12' piece and cut it in half, make sure you mark one face ofthe CRS at both ends. then when you put them together, keep these markedfaces on top. CRS can be off in dimension by a bit, but usually it is very consistentalong its length for a given side. Mauro On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, J. C. Zimny wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdrivingme crazy. >Snip > I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metal planer,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Any suggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydOnce you take the hard "skin" off of CRS, stresses are relieved and itbegins to do a dimensional "dance". If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.Remember, Garrison used CRS because it was cheap and available. Thereare other products.John from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Feb 2 12:33:14 1998 (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id MAA15655 for ; Mon, 2 Feb1998 12:33:00 doing -bs Subject: moisture re-entry Somebody just asked about keeping moisture out after you glue upthe nodeless strips. Sorry, but I deleted the message too soon. Even if you do your tempering in the kitchen oven, its nice to havea long, low- temp oven to dry cane and keep strips dry as you work on them.I did some experiments last fall and 130 Deg F is enough to (gradually)drive out the moisture and keep it out. It helps extend the season, too,into the muggy summer months. I'm skeptical if any surface finish we would want to use will keep outmoisture indefinitely, but its a nice concept to start with dry cane.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Feb 2 12:41:16 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Treating Nodeless Rods In a message dated 2/2/98 4:26:19 PM, you wrote: Brian - I'm assuming you have used Titebond II as your splicing glue. If so Ithink you would be on dangerous ground if you went back up to 300degrees. Ithink a drying cabinet operating at low temperatures would be a betterdeal is not appealing, 200 degrees for an hour would probably not be harmfulandwould drive out most of the moisture. from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 2 13:14:47 1998 14:13:36 Subject: RE: moisture re-entry Did you have a problem with the glue failing at the splices at 130 deg? Brian -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer [SMTP:stetzer@csd.uwm.edu]Sent: Monday, February 02, 1998 1:33 PM Subject: moisture re-entry Even if you do your tempering in the kitchen oven, its nice to havea long, low- temp oven to dry cane and keep strips dry as you work onthem.I did some experiments last fall and 130 Deg F is enough to(gradually)drive out the moisture and keep it out. It helps extend the season,too,into the muggy summer months. from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Feb 2 13:32:05 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve, where do you live in Canada? There are several bamboo rodbuildersin Ontario who could advise you. Also , we are hosting a Rod BuildersGathering in Fergus, Ont. on May 23/24 this spring. There will be a lot ofinfo for the new rod builder!!!!---------- Subject: Cane tools I build regular grafite rods ect but I am interested in the art of buildingwith cane. Some questions and request's I have are Where can I find thenecassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And where can I get tonkinBamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that works with bambooinmy area.Thanx Steve from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 14:19:28 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Im In British Columbia, But still ontario is better then the states for the$ exchange.Thanx for you help and look forward from hearing from you.Steve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 14:22:08 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Im in BC , shoot Id love to go to the gathering. Thanx anyways, And if youcan still help me that would be great. The thing Im looking for mainly isthe plaining form. Where does one get it or is there a different form that Ican use?Thanx Steve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve, where do you live in Canada? There are several bamboo rodbuildersin Ontario who could advise you. Also , we are hosting a Rod BuildersGathering in Fergus, Ont. on May 23/24 this spring. There will be a lot ofinfo for the new rod builder!!!!----------From: steve Subject: Cane toolsDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 4:31 AM I build regular grafite rods ect but I am interested in the art of buildingwith cane. Some questions and request's I have are Where can I find thenecassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And where can I get tonkinBamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that works withbamboo inmy area.Thanx Steve from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Feb 2 14:30:09 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id OAA16953 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id OAA24272 for ; Mon, 2 Feb1998 14:29:42 doing -bs Subject: RE: moisture re-entry No. But I'm not using Titebond. I'm using Gorilla glue. I don't think any of our modern glues will fail at 130F; itshotter than that in the car sometimes. But at 300F some might.Its an concern for straightening the glued up blank too. It would be easy enough to do a test, with whatever glue you wantto use. Others have used Titebind with success for the entire rod,including the nodeless splices.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Thoman, Brian wrote:Did you have a problem with the glue failing at the splices at 130 deg? Brian from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Feb 2 15:31:15 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Cane tools steve wrote: The thing Im looking for mainly is the plaining form. Where does one getit or is there a different form that I can use?Thanx SteveSnipped from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 15:43:06 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Thanx HarrySteve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools steve wrote: The thing Im looking for mainly is the plaining form. Where does one getit or is there a different form that I can use?Thanx SteveSnippedSteve, Visit Jerry Foster's Rodmakers page at: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm There you will find all kinds of information on almost every subjectyou can think of connected with bamboo rods. Then start buying books,reading, following the list, and ordering supplies. If all you've done is assemble graphite rods, you're in for a realtreat when you actually begin building them yourself! Good Luck, andwelcome to a great source of info for new and prospective builders. Harry Boyd from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 2 16:07:40 1998 Subject: Herter's rod ?s Hi Gang! Haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and I've got a little puzzle Ihope somebody can help me figure out. I've recently picked up a very nice little 2-pc 8-ft rod with two tips, newcondition and a very fine caster with 4-5 TT or WF-5 line. It has an inkedinscription saying "Herter's Inc., RH8C" and a gold decal next to the hook-keeper with "MADE IN ENGLAND" Color is a uniform dark-honey, the nodes are carefully staggered and thetaperis para- similar to the Thramer in the Archive. The tips appear to be wet-and-dry and the ferrules are Super Z. Now things start to get spooky: the black-tipped red windings are aboutsizeD; the DL reel seat is very cheap aluminum with a big plastic knob at thebutt; the reverse half-Wells grip is low-grade cork, filled with putty, andabout an inch longer than any I've ever seen; the winding check is aMontague-looking stamping, and such things as guide feet and general finish indicategreat haste and/or miserly practice. My theory is that it was made by Herter's from an English blank, but othershave suggested it was a kit, assembled and finished by a customer. Isanyonefamiliar with Herters' practices and suppliers. Any guess as to who madetheblank? I'll guess about early '70s for the date, but who knows? I'd like to just strip it down to the blank and re-do the whole thing withthehigh-grade fittings it deserves, but I'm having too much fun fishing it inthis spectacular El Nino weather! Recommending same to all of you,Davy from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 2 16:48:41 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms/normalized steel Steve Trauthwein wrote: Normalized steel is stress relieved.John Ok John, can one get normalized CRS, or is that an oxymoron? Regards, SteveIndependence, MODon't know. Most of that is done in Fab Shops. I'd go for a largesupplier's catalog of stock material and then I'd ask if any of hissuppliers can accomodate your needs. Tha problem is always the smallquantity.John from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 2 17:28:26 1998 17:27:49 dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: url I ran onto a URL I thought some of you might be interested in. It is theentire military TC-524 machinery training manual. The lathe sectionaloneis 103 pages. Ir's downloadable as PDF files. http://www.atsc-army.org/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Feb 2 17:46:46 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA20271 for Subject: Re: Herter's rod ?s At 04:46 PM 2/2/98 EST, you wrote:Hi Gang! Haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and I've got a little puzzle Ihope somebody can help me figure out. Davy, I suspect that what you have is a kit rod based on a Partridge of Redichblank.Obviously the builder was "resourceful."Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 18:01:56 1998 Subject: RE:Herter's rod ?s RO>My theory is that it was made by Herter's from an English blank, butothersRO>have suggested it was a kit, assembled and finished by a customer. IsanyonRO>familiar with Herters' practices and suppliers. Any guess as to whomade thRO>blank? I'll guess about early '70s for the date, but who knows? Davy, I could look for more listings if you want better details, but I didfind an 8' Herter's (2/1) - 5/6 wt - in the autumm 1995 ClassicChronicle rod list. Dick Spurr's discription in the list sounds quite abit like yours except for apparent wrap quality - D/L seat with bakelitespacer and butt button, red tipped black wraps, impregnated cane, flykeeper, quality Z-type ferrules, good reel seat, good guide wraps. Wrap quality on yours makes me believe it was a kit rod or amateurrestoration job. Don Burns PS - With a single 9" short tip it was listed at $120. from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 2 18:09:52 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05567 for Subject: Books Etc To the list;To those of you who suggested listing my books here, it doesn't seemethical or practical (9 pages). This list is cluttered up enough. But if youwould like to send your addresses off list I'll send one snailmail.To those seeking Kirkfield I don't have one. Also my Garrison is all fullof notations and is not included. My 1934 Holden is available, as is my1951Kreider and Herter but I have no idea what they are worth.To those asking about my health, thanks. I will no longer wade NY'sAusable, but even though a septegen- (can't spell it) I can still stay withmy lab when he's chasing a running pheasant (keeps you young, don't youknow?). With the years one becomes conscious of one's mortality. Iprobablyshould face the same problem with my flyrods. Was planning to leave abunchto the local TU chapter but they seem to be coming unglued.Bill from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Feb 2 18:13:11 1998 Subject: first tapered strip out Made a base for my planing form today, two 2x6's glued together. Made apreliminary planing form, just glued it rather than screwing ittogether, oak. Planed my first finish taper. Starting on the learning curve, I need totweek my plane so I am not having to work so hard at it. I did maintaina good 60* all around. I was rather proud of that. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 2 19:05:53 1998 Subject: Re: Books Etc Bill, listmembers If you would like to email me the list i would gladly post it on thearchive for you if that's a route you would like to go..the list andfellow rodmakers should consider it an honor to assist any member, ifpossible.The only requirement would be that the monitory dealings should behandled off the list. ANY OBJECTIONS????? Jerry jfoster@gte.net from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:14:12 1998 Subject: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (or any9'6"Granger for that matter)? Thanks. --Rich from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:15:12 1998 Subject: Wax On - Wax Off I was intrigued by the person who wrote in andsuggested that waxing your plane sole wouldgreatly reduce the effort it takes to plane bamboostrips, but like the other person who wrote in, Iwondered about wax getting on the bamboo, andmaking it so the glue would not stick. So I did a little experiment. I waxed one plane and left myother plane alone. I planed four strips on the sides,two with the waxed plane, and two with the unwaxedplane. I then glued the paired strips with polyurethaneglue. On both pairs of strips the bamboo broke beforethe glue let go, so I would say there is no contaminationof wax on the bamboo, or at least not enough to makea difference. Or perhaps the polyurethane glue actslike a solvent and dissolves away the wax. In any case, the effort to plane strips is dramaticallyreduced. The plane just glides over the strips and forsome reason I can set the blade shallower and takethinner shavings than before. I am definitely going tobe waxing my plane sole from now on. Next experiment - Wax the blade edge?...... Darryl Hayashida from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:28:49 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Don,My wife won't let me go to those type of places, unless she is withme.Two years ago I went to a garage sale and bought ten rods at $50.00each.Shehad a fit.Untill I resold them at a fly fishing show for $2500.00.Womanjustdon't understand that we have to buy these things. My Honey-Do list just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think she'stryingto keep me busy,so I can'i go to all those garage sales and fly fishingshows. Let me know if there is anything I can help you with. Dave L. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Feb 2 20:12:38 1998 VAA10345;Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:12:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Books Etc 23C49784CA9AB52F06206172" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 23C49784CA9AB52F06206172 Bill Before you get carried away - I want first dibs on the ultimate rod -the 5 sided one piece nodeless - That one is too good to leave to someonewho would not appreciate it or the construction. It is one fine fishingimplement. Chris Bill Fink wrote: To the list;To those of you who suggested listing my books here, it doesn't seemethical or practical (9 pages). This list is cluttered up enough. But if youwould like to send your addresses off list I'll send one snailmail.To those seeking Kirkfield I don't have one. Also my Garrison is all fullof notations and is not included. My 1934 Holden is available, as is my1951Kreider and Herter but I have no idea what they are worth.To those asking about my health, thanks. I will no longer wade NY'sAusable, but even though a septegen- (can't spell it) I can still stay withmy lab when he's chasing a running pheasant (keeps you young, don't youknow?). With the years one becomes conscious of one's mortality. Iprobablyshould face the same problem with my flyrods. Was planning to leave abunchto the local TU chapter but they seem to be coming unglued.Bill --------------23C49784CA9AB52F06206172 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------23C49784CA9AB52F06206172-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 2 20:42:34 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Feb 1998 21:43:10 -0500 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Absolutely! That's my home. I would love to help plan a get together with ya! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from lblan@provide.net Mon Feb 2 20:53:54 1998 Subject: Re: Books Etc Sounds like a plan to me, Jerry. No problems here.Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Books Etc Bill, listmembers If you would like to email me the list i would gladly post it on thearchive for you if that's a route you would like to go..the list andfellow rodmakers should consider it an honor to assist any member, ifpossible.The only requirement would be that the monitory dealings should behandled off the list. ANY OBJECTIONS????? Jerry jfoster@gte.net from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 2 21:03:04 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Feb 1998 22:05:16 -0500 Subject: Restoration I would like to get some input on how to judge bamboo integrity. At a recent show a gentleman asked me to take a look at a rod for him. It looks to be a rod perhaps brought home from WWI. The strips themselves look to be of decent quality. Much better than other war rods. The nodes were flat (clearly filed but flat) and for the most part there were only very slight gaps in the splines. Anyhow, the ferrules were plated but in good condition and fit rather well. The finish was poor and the wraps were a step past crap (pardon me). I told him I would be more than happy to strip the rod and refinish it. The gentleman was in his late 70's and has never owned a bamboo rod. He sounded so happy even if the rod could not be fished to soon own a bamboo rod he could tell his friends about. I put the rod together and gave it a few good wrist casts to feel the action. (never mind the male ferrule of the tip section came off and let the tip fly across the room) It doesn't feel half bad but I heard a creak near the grip. I cannot tell whether it came from the grip or the cane. If I thought the cane was strong enough to fish with I would ask him if he wanted to put another grip and reel seat on. Otherwise I will just make it displayable. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to figure this out? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 21:09:40 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? RO>Don,RO> My wife won't let me go to those type of places, unless she iswithRO>me.RO> Two years ago I went to a garage sale and bought ten rods at $50.00each.SRO>had a fit.Untill I resold them at a fly fishing show for $2500.00.Woman jusRO>don't understand that we have to buy these things. RO> My Honey-Do list just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think she'sRO>tryingRO>to keep me busy,so I can'i go to all those garage sales and fly fishingshow RO> Let me know if there is anything I can help you with. RO> Dave L. I think behind every successful rodmaker is pi$$ed-off wife with a longhoney- do list - the rest of us aren't able to withstand "the look". Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 21:17:57 1998 Subject: RE:Restoration RO>It doesn't feel half bad but I heard a creak nearRO>the grip. I cannot tell whether it came from the grip or the cane.RO>If I thought the cane was strong enough to fish with I would ask himRO>if he wanted to put another grip and reel seat on. Otherwise I willRO>just make it displayable. Does anyone have any thoughts on how toRO>figure this out? RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, I had a loose metal reelseat on a bamboo baitcaster rod (reelseatin between 2 grips) and I bought a dull-tipped syringe at anelectronic's warehouse and injected MEK diluted epoxy through the corkgrips and up under the reelseat. Maybe you could do the same thing? Fill the syringe with the needle off. (can't draw through the small ID) Don Burns from pat3@home.com Mon Feb 2 21:26:32 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA21783 Subject: locating bamboo I am trying to locate some bamboo to make a flyrod. This will be myfirst atempt to make one and I do not know where to get the bamboo. Iwould be very greatful for any help given. Thanks Pat Kelly from d_price@global2000.net Mon Feb 2 21:32:32 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA09496 for; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:32:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I was intrigued by the person who wrote in andsuggested that waxing your plane sole wouldgreatly reduce the effort it takes to plane bamboostrips, but like the other person who wrote in, Iwondered about wax getting on the bamboo, andmaking it so the glue would not stick. So I did alittle experiment. I waxed one plane and left myother plane alone. I planed four strips on the sides,two with the waxed plane, and two with the unwaxedplane. I then glued the paired strips with polyurethaneglue. On both pairs of strips the bamboo broke beforethe glue let go, so I would say there is no contaminationof wax on the bamboo, or at least not enough to makea difference. Or perhaps the polyurethane glue actslike a solvent and dissolves away the wax. In any case, the effort to plane strips is dramaticallyreduced. The plane just glides over the strips and forsome reason I can set the blade shallower and takethinner shavings than before. I am definitely going tobe waxing my plane sole from now on. Next experiment - Wax the blade edge?...... Darryl Hayashida I'm glad someone tried it,and glad to hear of the successfull gluing.The first thing a rokie in the wood shops that I've worked in learned,was how to wax every machine working surface in the shop!.I hate to usetool that didn't have it and it makes all the difference in the world.Dave Price from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 21:34:35 1998 Subject: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing RO>Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (orany 9'6"RO>Granger for that matter)? Thanks. RO>--Rich Rich, I've got a 9' W&M Granger Deluxe if that will help at all. Don from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Feb 2 21:48:01 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Restoration Jon;WWI or WWII??? Is the rod a combination Fly/Bait Cast? Is the gripremovable ( can you pull it off the butt section and turn it around to makea bait casting rod)? If so malybe the grip ferrule is loose. If the rodwas made in Japan in the early 1950's any of the really gaudy spiral wrapsbetween guides are not there as intermediate wraps, they hide some reallyugly mistakes. Tell me more. Any delaminations, cane fractures, crackedferrules, etc? ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: RestorationDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:03 PM I would like to get some input on how to judge bamboo integrity. At a recent show a gentleman asked me to take a look at a rod for him. It looks to be a rod perhaps brought home from WWI. The strips themselves look to be of decent quality. Much better than other war rods. The nodes were flat (clearly filed but flat) and for the most part there were only very slight gaps in the splines. Anyhow, the ferrules were plated but in good condition and fit rather well. The finish was poor and the wraps were a step past crap (pardon me). I told him I would be more than happy to strip the rod and refinish it. The gentleman was in his late 70's and has never owned a bamboo rod. He sounded so happy even if the rod could not be fished to soon own a bamboo rod he could tell his friends about. I put the rod together and gave it a few good wrist casts to feel the action. (never mind the male ferrule of the tip section came off and let the tip fly across the room) It doesn't feel half bad but I heard a creak near the grip. I cannot tell whether it came from the grip or the cane. If I thought the cane was strong enough to fish with I would ask him if he wanted to put another grip and reel seat on. Otherwise I will just make it displayable. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to figure this out? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Feb 2 21:51:08 1998 beforged)) Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off What type of wax? Furniture, or candle?George ----------From: David Price Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax OffDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 11:32 PM SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I was intrigued by the person who wrote in andsuggested that waxing your plane sole wouldgreatly reduce the effort it takes to plane bamboostrips, but like the other person who wrote in, Iwondered about wax getting on the bamboo, andmaking it so the glue would not stick. So I did alittle experiment. I waxed one plane and left myother plane alone. I planed four strips on the sides,two with the waxed plane, and two with the unwaxedplane. I then glued the paired strips with polyurethaneglue. On both pairs of strips the bamboo broke beforethe glue let go, so I would say there is no contaminationof wax on the bamboo, or at least not enough to makea difference. Or perhaps the polyurethane glue actslike a solvent and dissolves away the wax. In any case, the effort to plane strips is dramaticallyreduced. The plane just glides over the strips and forsome reason I can set the blade shallower and takethinner shavings than before. I am definitely going tobe waxing my plane sole from now on. Next experiment - Wax the blade edge?...... Darryl Hayashida I'm glad someone tried it,and glad to hear of the successfull gluing.The first thing a rokie in the wood shops that I've worked in learned,was how to wax every machine working surface in the shop!.I hate to usetool that didn't have it and it makes all the difference in the world.Dave Price from wbinn@michiana.org Mon Feb 2 21:55:02 1998 freenet.michiana.org (8.8.2/8.7.3(CICNet)) with ESMTP id WAA22499 for Subject: Re: Herter's rod ?s Concerning the question about the Herters rod. I recently refinished an 8'Herters RH8C 2 pc rod of the description in question. It was in terribleshape when I bought it but it had good quality ferrules and a nice action.Besides, it's not often I run across a light action 2 pc rod in anycondition. It had the rather unusual handle/reelseat as described but had avarnished finish. The wraps were in terrible shape and while they weren'tCor D thread, they were red nylon and had unusual 4 turn black trim bandsonboth ends of each red wrap. The end of the reel seat had a black rubberbutton somewhat typical of the ones Hardy used sometimes. I was alsocurious about this rods origin and later I found a similar one listed inThe Classic listing at $280. (It had 2 tips and a different number thanmine) The answer to my question, and possibly yours, came when I found a1966 Herters catalog in an antique mall. It listed two cane rods that year,one of which was the RH8C. And while the catalog was in black and whitethedrawing for the rod clearly showed the rubber button butt and guide wrapswith 2 trim bands per.Hope this helps. slow action.Winston Binney from madcliff@mssl.uswest.net Mon Feb 2 22:02:34 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA14435 for Subject: Re: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (or any9'6"Granger for that matter)? Thanks. --Rich The following guide spacings come from a 9 1/2-foot Goodwin Granger Denver Special, one of the older models from the 20s before the Special was introduced. The problem is that the tip on this rod is 2 1/4 inches short. I assume that it was broken at the tip end rather than the butt end, but 7" seems quite a ways down for the first guide. 7"13 3/821 1/428 5/836 3/8 (bottom of tip section)40 3/8 (top of mid section)5061 1/274 1/483 1/4 Hope this helps. Matt Clifford from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 2 22:49:53 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Feb 1998 23:52:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Japaning? While I do not classify as a successful rod maker...I would just like to point out I don't have a pi&^ed off wife...I have a Pi@#ed off girlfriend though, with a pretty long "you-better-do-if-you-want-some-loven" list. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 2 22:51:12 1998 Subject: Where am I? Dear Listmeister Did I get dropped? I sent in a question re. Herters rods and got a replyoff- list, but I never saw it (or anything else) come up today. If I should resubmit or resubscribe or something, please let me know. Thanks,Davy from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Feb 2 22:54:46 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools =_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0 ----------From: steve Subject: Re: Cane toolsDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:17 PM Im In British Columbia, But still ontario is better then the states forthe$ exchange.Thanx for you help and look forward from hearing from you.Steve-----Original Message-----From: DrBamboo@aol.com Date: February 2, 1998 6:50 AMSubject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0 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 ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0-- from Skbump@aol.com Mon Feb 2 23:22:59 1998 Subject: Unsubscribe Shannon K. Bump unscribe Shannon K. Bump from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 3 00:47:07 1998 Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off In a message dated 2/2/98 6:43:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,jlintvet@clarityconnect.com writes: Just curious...what type of wax did you use or would you suggest? What type of wax? Furniture, or candle? I used the wax I recently posted about for waxing my rods. Citrus Shield carnuba wax by Howard Products. It's afurniture wax. Darryl Hayashida from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 3 01:44:18 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA10425 Subject: Re: Herter's rod ?s Sounds like you have one of Herter's "Grand Deluxe Imported St. Albans"split bamboo fly rods. In all the Herter's catalogs I've seen (late '60'sthru'70's) they were ONLY offered fully assembled. from your description, itsounds like stock # RH8C 8'-2pc 4-3/8oz for 5- 6wt. It sold for $32.67in1973. If you wanted an extra tip you had to add $9.47. I see that youmis-took the "DuPont neoprene rubber button on (the) end (of the reel seat) toprotectthe rod from damage" for cheap plastic. You'd probably also be pleased toknow that the ferrules "are all made of solid German silver". You maywishto study the rod closely as "the specifications on Herter's St. AlbansGrandDeluxe Split Bamboo Fly Rods have been worked out to perfection duringmany a lifetime of study." Enjoy,George Bourke Quotations from the 1972-3 Herter's catalog. The rod (2 models available)gets a whole page! ----------From: Ragnarig@aol.com Subject: Herter's rod ?sDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 1:46 PM Hi Gang! Haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and I've got a littlepuzzle Ihope somebody can help me figure out. I've recently picked up a very nice little 2-pc 8-ft rod with two tips,newcondition and a very fine caster with 4-5 TT or WF-5 line. It has aninkedinscription saying "Herter's Inc., RH8C" and a gold decal next to thehook-keeper with "MADE IN ENGLAND" Color is a uniform dark-honey, the nodes are carefully staggered and thetaperis para- similar to the Thramer in the Archive. The tips appear to bewet-and-dry and the ferrules are Super Z. Now things start to get spooky: the black-tipped red windings are aboutsizeD; the DL reel seat is very cheap aluminum with a big plastic knob at thebutt; the reverse half-Wells grip is low-grade cork, filled with putty,andabout an inch longer than any I've ever seen; the winding check is aMontague-looking stamping, and such things as guide feet and general finishindicategreat haste and/or miserly practice. My theory is that it was made by Herter's from an English blank, butothershave suggested it was a kit, assembled and finished by a customer. Isanyonefamiliar with Herters' practices and suppliers. Any guess as to whomadethe> blank? I'll guess about early '70s for the date, but who knows? I'd like to just strip it down to the blank and re-do the whole thingwith thehigh-grade fittings it deserves, but I'm having too much fun fishing itinthis spectacular El Nino weather! Recommending same to all of you,Davy from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 3 02:38:51 1998 Subject: stress curves revisted Darryl;Thanks for re-posting you previous explanation of stress curves. Mybrowsermust have crashed before I read that in the archives, I finally gotnetscape so now I can go back and read everything I missed before. Thanksto you and Wayne, I think I'm finally beginning to get a clue as to whatwhat the differences in curves might mean to rod action.Now it seemsthat Ionly have to build a couple dozen rods, or maybe a couple hundred , andI'll have it all figured out.I hope the side jobs keep coming in!John Channer from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue Feb 3 06:38:58 1998 (AST) 3 Feb 98 07:44:03 -0500 0500 3 Feb 98 07:43:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Cane tools Are any of your friends in the Ottawa area?-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools ----------From: steve Subject: Re: Cane toolsDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:17 PM Im In British Columbia, But still ontario is better then the states forthe$ exchange.Thanx for you help and look forward from hearing from you.Steve-----Original Message-----From: DrBamboo@aol.com Date: February 2, 1998 6:50 AMSubject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Feb 3 09:31:01 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves revisted Rather than build a few hundred, try to cast and measure aas many rods asyoucan find. Sonn you'll feel pretty confidant when you get a feel for how arodwill graph just by casting it. Rob from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 10:15:46 1998 Subject: Pacific Bay guides All, I bought some black PacBay snake guides the other day at BobMArriott's, thye told me that PacBay has changed the shape of theguides. I don't think their finish has changed, just the shape. Old guide shape (sorry for ascii): --/\/-- new shape: --/|/-- The top of the loop is now 90 deg to the rod shaft vs at an angle. FYI, Don Burns from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 3 14:23:22 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides Pac Bay has a line of Titanium Carbide guides which have a beautiful darkfinish andflat feet They're pricey but are worth it.Roughly 2.75/ snake and 3 /tiptop. from birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu Tue Feb 3 16:07:05 1998 (echem16392.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu ka011086 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:06:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides Can anyone give me a good source for Pac Bay guides. Seymour Birnbaumsxb33@po.cwru.edu DrBamboo@aol.com wrote: Pac Bay has a line of Titanium Carbide guides which have a beautifuldarkfinish andflat feet They're pricey but are worth it.Roughly 2.75/ snake and 3/tiptop. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 3 16:49:57 1998 0700 Subject: Impregnation Guys, Several weeks ago someone wrote in about impregnating cane. I have since received a copy of "Wes Jordan - Profile of a Cane Builder"and his patent is located in the book. Times/resins/technique is all there. Further, a section of the "Best of the Planning Form" deals withimpregnation. Another note: See some concern about moisture entering the rod. WesJordan's impregnation technique required rods to be soaked in water/resinsolution for days @ a time. He then cooked the cane @ 285F for severalhours to remove the water. So I wonder if the hype about moisture is suchan issue. Mind you, I live in a dry climate so perhaps I just haven't seenthe results. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 3 16:50:02 1998 0700 Subject: Perfection snake guides Guys, The last 2 orders of guides model SSGC showed a lot less chroming thanprevious guides I've used over the years. The new ones are nearly a mattfinish suggesting very little chrome or none @ all. Anyone else noticethis? Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 17:35:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Wax On - Wax Off What if you waxed the sole of your plane with auto wax instead of afurnituretype wax or candle wax? Bret from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 3 17:46:49 1998 Subject: perfection guides Don; I'm glad someone else noticed that too, I thought the last batch of guidesI got seemed a little dull, I hope they don't rust.Also, to Rob, I'ld loveto cast every different rod ever made, but Durango, Co. might as well bethe moon as far as cane rods go. I fish the San Juan at least twice a monthand have done so for three years and I have only seen one other personwitha cane rod and it was a 9' H-I that cast like a pool cue. I have let quitea few graphite types cast my Garrison taper 8' 5wt and most of them werequite complimentary. I keep hoping to run into people with cane rods, butso far to no avail.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 17:47:52 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides RO>Can anyone give me a good source for Pac Bay guides. RO>Seymour BirnbaumRO>sxb33@po.cwru.edu Seymour, Try Bob Marriott's: Phone (800) 535-6633 or (714) 525-1827 FAX -- 5783 orwww.bobmarriotts.com (online ordering I think) Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 17:49:12 1998 Subject: honey do list I tell you guys I must be the luckiest guy here because my wife never, Imeannever stops me from doing this kind of stuff. She always tells mewhatever iwant to buy just do it. we went to an antique shop the other day and Ibought4 old planes and some other stuff for this hobby and she only smiled. Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 17:49:55 1998 Subject: Perfection snake guides RO>Guys, RO>The last 2 orders of guides model SSGC showed a lot less chromingthanRO>previous guides I've used over the years. The new ones are nearly amattRO>finish suggesting very little chrome or none @ all. Anyone else noticethis? RO>Don Don, I tried to order Perfection guides from Angler's Workshop last year, butthey said they couldn't get them in due to Perfection's problems ingetting their new plating methods worked out. Sounds like you've gotsome new type guides. Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 18:05:32 1998 Subject: Rod builders in Boise I was wondering if any1 is located in Boise. If so can you answer me offgroup so as not to take up this space. Thanx.Bret from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Feb 3 18:35:55 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides As I understand from my supplier, Perfection now calls the matte finish"hardchrome" and I think that is the only silver guide available. I hope this mayshed a little light. Rob from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 18:54:16 1998 Subject: RE:honey do list RO>I tell you guys I must be the luckiest guy here because my wife never, ImeaRO>never stops me from doing this kind of stuff. She always tells mewhateverRO>want to buy just do it. we went to an antique shop the other day and IbougRO>4 old planes and some other stuff for this hobby and she only smiled.RO>Bret Alright, I'll bite - what's the punch line? Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 19:27:10 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Cane tools OK tell me why I can't retrive any of JFosters pages on the inter-net.Bret from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 3 20:45:00 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Jon - You can build rods later in life. Having gone to IU in the '70's(and yes, Bob Knight is a god), I can honestly say that I never letfishing come between me and a girlfriend. There was that one time Igot up too early to go deer hunting, though. . . . . But enough about me. Where are your priorities, man!?! Brian Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 3 20:49:45 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides George - Wayne had some of these the other day, and I was impressed by the"Stealth bomber" look. Now I just have to figure out how to oxidize NSto the same tone for ferrules and seats. Brian from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 3 21:52:04 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides Brian;Just use the Jim Payne bluing solution and cover it with Krylon Acrylicwith U.V.blocker,Works like a charm.George from richjez@enteract.com Tue Feb 3 22:01:13 1998 0000 (207.229.149.243) Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off A lot of auto waxes have abrasives in them to remove oxdized paint. I sawone neighboe take the paint off his car one summer waxing every weekwith apower buffer. There is various degrees of the abrasiveness of auto wax. Iimangine there might be some without any abrasives.It doesn't seem like those abrasives that would help your plane.Rich Jezioro At 06:32 PM 2/3/98 EST, you wrote:What if you waxed the sole of your plane with auto wax instead of afurnituretype wax or candle wax? Bret from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 3 22:16:53 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 3Feb 1998 23:18:05 -0500 Subject: Final prep After you sand down your blank and are ready to dip it what is you last step before the varnish goes on? Wayne reccomends a light coat of tung oil, after dry, a rub down of turpentine, then the tube. Any comments? Would denatured alcohol have a different effect than turpentine? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277- 9781 from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Feb 3 22:19:35 1998 Subject: Re: honey do list In a message dated 98-02-03 19:57:38 EST, you write: Be patient, Don. Sometimes it just takes a little while to get hermedicationadjusted properly, that's all. Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 3 23:27:09 1998 Subject: Re: Stress Curves Revisited Thanks for the posting on stress curves-I believe I understand them alittlebetter but I can read a graph of thickness vs. length with more accurateprediction-probably just what I've gotten used to.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 3 23:29:13 1998 Subject: Re: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Jon,I believe Chris Bogart is trying to get an informal get togethersometimein May--it might not fit your college schedule but it would be at his shoponthe Shenandoah R. near Luray-details later.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 3 23:37:49 1998 Subject: Re: Books Etc Bill,I'm sorry to hear your T.U. chapter is coming unglued! :-)Hank. from jstickle@erols.com Wed Feb 4 04:23:46 1998 Subject: Pacific Bay Guides Merrick Tackle I was told yesterday now handles the titanium platedguides. Problem is they only sell wholesale. I think you can also getthem from Jann's Netcraft. Their 1998 catalog shows a gunsmoke guide so. Last year Merrick Tackle sold solid titanium fly guides at $4.25 eachbut I'm told they don't handle them anymore. I'm sort of bummed becausethey are much lighter than regular stainless and the plated stainless. Jann's Netcraft's number is 800-638-2723 from sonners2@bellsouth.net Wed Feb 4 06:04:47 1998 Subject: ROD LABOR PRICE LIST I am new to repair rod repairs for commercial purposes. I am wondering ifanyone has a labor price list in which they could share with me. Or ifsomeone could offer me advice I would appreciate it. Thanks Anthony from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 08:35:14 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA00312 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:35:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off Rich Jezioro wrote: A lot of auto waxes have abrasives in them to remove oxdized paint. Isawone neighboe take the paint off his car one summer waxing every weekwith apower buffer. There is various degrees of the abrasiveness of auto wax. Iimangine there might be some without any abrasives.It doesn't seem like those abrasives that would help your plane.Rich Jezioro At 06:32 PM 2/3/98 EST, you wrote:What if you waxed the sole of your plane with auto wax instead of afurnituretype wax or candle wax?Bret I use butchers wax (home-depot may have it and people who make cabinetfinishes have it)funny thing about abrasives is I apply it with ascotch- brite pad and over time it smooths the surface to beslicker.Have been doing this on some tools for twenty years and dosn'tseem too alter the flatness. Just my .02 worth.Dave Price from tball@mail.portup.com Wed Feb 4 09:28:10 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides You might also try Hook & Hackle at their Email cite Bob@hookhack.comHave done business for a number of years and they are good to work with.Tom in Trout Lake from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Feb 4 14:01:36 1998 Subject: Re:Green Cane To any and all who can help,I just got some bamboo and for the first time, it's pretty green. Will myflaming cover for this, should I wait when (or if, this is Feb. in Chicago)and set them out in the sun? I have started a check split and knocked outtheinternal dams. if I do blonde will this green color screw up the color, orwill the heat treating clear it up?Thanks Rob from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 4 15:27:20 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16468 for Subject: First try I've been lurking for a week or two and have enjoyed the give and take. I'vealso tried several times to access the archives at Bruce Conner's site andkeep receiving the message that they're not available. Am I doingsomethingwrong? I can't be typing the URL wrong, I'm clicking HIS button!I'm thinking of getting my planes all dull again after a hiatus of about 10years. You guys are a real breath of fresh air. Back when I blew out myshoulder planing and decided to take a break, it was read a book or botherHoagy Carmichael with a phone call if you needed to improve some facet ofyour output. At that time I had a pizza-man who thought I was nuts but letme use his oven on an occasional Sun AM to bake my blanks (provided Ineverdivulge to ANYONE that he put anything like THAT where the FOOD went)! Icould never quite convince him that it was no different from making alittleChinese food on the sly.Thanks for the enjoyment; I'll probably wait awhile more before I startputting any "two-centses" worth in among you guys. I WOULD appreciate itifanyone can trouble-shoot my unsuccessful attempts at the archives.Art from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 4 15:45:09 1998 Subject: RE:First try RO>Thanks for the enjoyment; I'll probably wait awhile more before I startRO>putting any "two-centses" worth in among you guys. I WOULDappreciate it ifRO>anyone can trouble-shoot my unsuccessful attempts at the archives.RO>Art Art, Welcome and try looking at the archives on Jerry Foster's URL: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Don Burns from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 4 16:16:16 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 4Feb 1998 17:17:04 +0000 Subject: Ferrule Replacement I seemed to have ruined a male ferrule when I took it off. It appears to be a standard H&I male ferrule section. The total length is 1 3/4", the seating length is 1" and the outside diameter of the seating area is .292 Anyone have something similar they could part with or know where I can find inexpensive ferrules. The rod is not need. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 16:17:48 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id RAA26546 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:17:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Green Cane Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: To any and all who can help,I just got some bamboo and for the first time, it's pretty green. Will myflaming cover for this, should I wait when (or if, this is Feb. in Chicago)and set them out in the sun? I have started a check split and knocked outtheinternal dams. if I do blonde will this green color screw up the color, orwill the heat treating clear it up?Thanks Rob Gee and I was just going to order cane myself, but now I'm scared agian!I'l never get started(can't afford to get a bum batch at the moment)!!.Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 16:28:17 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id RAA27185 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:28:14 -0500 Subject: Cane Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks from penr0295@uidaho.edu Wed Feb 4 16:37:29 1998 process doing-bs Subject: Trout Fly Exhibit "An International Exhibition: The Art of the Trout Fly" is an exhibitionthat is currently being put together as a collaborative effort between theUniversity of Idaho's Prichard Gallery of Art in Moscow, Idaho, and theBoulder Museum for Contemporary Art in Boulder, Colorado. The show's organizers are Gallery Director Gail Siegel (Univ. of Idaho),Jim Palmersheim (Univ. of Idaho), and Ken Iwamasa (Univ. Of Colorado,Boulder). The exhibition itself is interested in "contemporary artwork,and will consider any medium and any aspect of fly fishing". The workmay be of a traditional nature, or may expand beyond this. Theexhibition also expects to include a "collateral lecture series,demonstrations, and workshops". The show itself is scheduled to occurconcurrently at both the Prichard Gallery in Idaho, and the Boulder Museum 1999. As a good friend of two of the individuals who are responsible fororganizing this show, they have asked me to help them in their task ofcompiling a list of the names and addresses of International fly tyers,artists, etc. who we can contact in order to see if they might beinterested in submitting work that would be considered for inclusion inthis exhibition (submissions would generally be in the form of slides orphotographs). We are particularly interested in acquiring the names andaddresses (and e-mails, if possible) of more non-North American tyers atthis point, but are not finalized with our mailing list for anygeographical region yet. Consequently, if you know of artists, tyers, or others that we should beaware of, I would appreciate it if you would submit to me off-list theirname, address, and any other contact information you may have (phone,e-mail, etc.) Please also include a brief description of the individual's Thomas PenroseBend, OR from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 4 16:40:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24293 for Subject: RE:First try At 01:44 PM 2/4/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>Thanks for the enjoyment; I'll probably wait awhile more before IstartRO>putting any "two-centses" worth in among you guys. I WOULDappreciate it ifRO>anyone can trouble-shoot my unsuccessful attempts at the archives.RO>Art Art, Welcome and try looking at the archives on Jerry Foster's URL: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Don Burns Don,Thanks so much for the almost instantaneous response (!). I was able togetthem on the first try and have found a source of reading pleasure that'llprobably suck up several weeks of free time.Thanks again,Art from penr0295@uidaho.edu Wed Feb 4 16:48:17 1998 process doing-bs Subject: Re: Trout Fly Exhibit I should also have added that while this exhibition is primarilyinterested in contemporary works done by living artists, there are alsoplans to include historical artifacts as well. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 4 16:56:23 1998 Subject: RE:Ferrule Replacement RO>I seemed to have ruined a male ferrule when I took it off. ItRO>appears to be a standard H&I male ferrule section. The total lengthRO>is 1 3/4", the seating length is 1" and the outside diameter of theRO>seating area is .292 Anyone have something similar they could partRO>with or know where I can find inexpensive ferrules. The rod is notRO>for me. I called anglers but the ferrules are much larger than IRO>need. RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, I pulled out my H-I mid sections and spare ferrules - all my "stuff" isin the 0.280" range. Sorry - can't help ya. Don Burns from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 4 16:57:42 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25595 for Subject: Re: Cane At 05:28 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks Dave,If you get to NJ a lot why don't you go to the source in Tom's River? That'swhere Demarest's warehouse is. That way you can: pick your own, takehomeactual 12 ft lengths, and get instant gratification. They have a website at: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Call before you go as they might wish you to make an appointment, but thelast time I was there they were extremely pleasant, helpful andcooperative.That was about 10 years ago but unless all the NICE people got firedthey'reprobably still as eager to help!Good luck,Art from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 17:42:02 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id SAA31642 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:41:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Cane Art Port wrote: At 05:28 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks Dave,If you get to NJ a lot why don't you go to the source in Tom's River?That'swhere Demarest's warehouse is. That way you can: pick your own, takehomeactual 12 ft lengths, and get instant gratification. They have a websiteat: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Call before you go as they might wish you to make an appointment, butthelast time I was there they were extremely pleasant, helpful andcooperative.That was about 10 years ago but unless all the NICE people got firedthey'reprobably still as eager to help!Good luck,Art Spoke to them last time I was down there, and they didn't seem to offerthat alternative, it's another 1 1/2 hour from where I go. I'm on theway out the door to go steelheading be back fri!!!!. Dave Price ( the only fishing I do in winter ) from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 4 18:12:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japaning? Brian,I never let a girl friend come between me and flyfishing. Bobby Knight isnota god but IU is awesome in B-ball.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 4 18:31:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Green Cane All the suppliers of cane will take back any you don't think is any good sojump in and buy some Dave.Bret from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 4 18:44:46 1998 Subject: Re: Quad rod Bret, I believe they are covered in the Best of the Planing Form. Youmight want to look there. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Subject: Quad rodDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 8:21 AM Can anyone out there help me to build a quad rod? What do I need as farasforms go etc. , etc.Bret from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 4 19:09:05 1998 with SMTP id AAA16776 for ;Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:08:23 +0000 withlast message Subject: Re: Cane TAA07612 Art, FYI... The warehouse is in Lakewood now, and they're still nice people. I justordered from them and they're a great bunch! Homey ----------At 05:28 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks Dave,If you get to NJ a lot why don't you go to the source in Tom's River? That'swhere Demarest's warehouse is. That way you can: pick your own, takehomeactual 12 ft lengths, and get instant gratification. They have a website at: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Call before you go as they might wish you to make an appointment, but thelast time I was there they were extremely pleasant, helpful andcooperative.That was about 10 years ago but unless all the NICE people got firedthey'reprobably still as eager to help!Good luck,Art from EMiller257@aol.com Wed Feb 4 19:26:23 1998 Subject: Re: honey do list I hope you realize just how lucky you are. Most wives moan and groanaboutall the stuff we buy for our hobby but I'd be willing to bet that most of usdont blow our checks in taverns or poker games like we did in our youth.Themoney I spend on fishing gear is a fraction of what I would have spent oncigarets this past 17 years since I quit. Somehow that never getsmentioned.Ed M from ghinde@inconnect.com Wed Feb 4 19:46:17 1998 Subject: Re: RE:Ferrule Replacement Jon;Sorry no luck with that size ferrule here.What have you done about the problem at the grip?George ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: RE:Ferrule ReplacementDate: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 1:55 PM RO>I seemed to have ruined a male ferrule when I took it off. ItRO>appears to be a standard H&I male ferrule section. The total lengthRO>is 1 3/4", the seating length is 1" and the outside diameter of theRO>seating area is .292 Anyone have something similar they could partRO>with or know where I can find inexpensive ferrules. The rod is notRO>for me. I called anglers but the ferrules are much larger than IRO>need. RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, I pulled out my H-I mid sections and spare ferrules - all my "stuff" isin the 0.280" range. Sorry - can't help ya. Don Burns from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 4 22:04:25 1998 Subject: Re: RE:honey do list That smile is about the future-be careful :-)Hank-I never get finished the list- Woolman. from plipton@sunvalley.net Wed Feb 4 23:19:56 1998 (208.14.167.42) Subject: violin finish DrBamboo wrote: Patrick;Maybe you can help.Need to refinish a violin for a friend.Violin shopsareeven more secretive than old rod shops and are hesitant to sell anyvarnish.Trade secrets you know.Would prefer not to use Behlens.Can yourecommend anything? DrBamboo: Contact International Violin Company, Baltimore, MD, 410-542-3535. Manyviolinvarnishes has shellac as one of their compoments. That gives them a shelflifesodon't stock up. Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726- 9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Feb 4 23:40:19 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Replacement Jon I've got some .300 male ferrules, but I'll have to check tomorrow (they areatmy shop) and see if there are any good, complete matching sets. This is atruncated step-down ferrule, nicht wahr? I'll get with you tomorrow off-list. Davy PS. You do understand this'll cost you a beer? from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 5 11:06:08 1998 Subject: Belvoirdale ferrules? All, Anyone ever use the Belvoirdale ferrules? Any good? Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 5 12:08:38 1998 Subject: Re: Re: honey do list Ed M.I quit smoking 25 years ago and I made myself a promise that if I quit forayear (two packs Pall Mall reds a day guy ) that I would by me a LeonardBamboowith the money I would have spent for smokes. Still fish that rod today. Andyes I do realize how lucky I am to have a wife who doesn't nag aboutthings.Never did play poker.Bret from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Feb 5 13:06:23 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10168 for Subject: Books Hi Chris,Am not getting carried away yet for awhile, I hope. Yes, last year'sone-piece five sider is very nice but did you see Tom cast the whole lineonthis year's two-piece five weight penta? Needing a new challenge, I wanttobuild one of Zimny's fast quads but so far he hasn't given me the taper. Bill from penr0295@uidaho.edu Thu Feb 5 13:48:55 1998 process doing-bs Subject: Trout fly exhibit forward (fwd) Jim Palmersheim sent me the following official announcement regardingtheexhibit I had made a post regarding yesterday. For those who areinterested, this announcement includes additional information. Also, anyindvidual who is interested in being sent an application letter shouldcontact either Jim, Ken, or myself by sending your name and address. Thomas PenroseBend, OR ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Brief discription/THANKS "Art of the Trout Fly"Art of the Trout Fly, an international exhibition of trout flies and related art objects is scheduled to open simultaneously at the University of Idaho and Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art, Boulder Colorado inJune through August 1999.This exhibition is centered around the late William Cushner fly collection, and will additionally feature the works of more than a hundred regionaland nationally known fly tiers and artists work of other hand-made objectssuch as visual arts, rods and reels. This three month long exhibition serves a platform for a Kid's fishing and educational programs, includes a series of programs for women and serves a platform for the discussion of trout and environmental issues.All international fly tiers are invited to make inquiries.Museum directors or TU chapters interested in having all or partsof this exhibition shown in your area should forward all inquiries toeither: co-curatorKen IwamasaBoulder, CO 80302460-20th St.iwamasa@spot.colorado.edu or co-curatorJim Palmersheim332 North BlaineMoscow, ID 83843jamesp@turbonet.com from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Feb 5 15:25:07 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id VAA07210 for; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:25:03 GMT Subject: Re: Green Cane Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: To any and all who can help,I just got some bamboo and for the first time, it's pretty green. Will myflaming cover for this, should I wait when (or if, this is Feb. in Chicago)and set them out in the sun? I have started a check split and knocked outtheinternal dams. if I do blonde will this green color screw up the color, orwill the heat treating clear it up? Rob The green color is the enamel which you will be removing after youplaneyour strips unless you want to remove it first. To check this out simplyuseyour thumbnail and scratch the very end of a culm. Bryant C. from shane.m.hubbs@vanderbilt.edu Thu Feb 5 16:27:59 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:27:57 CST Subject: Re:help how do I remove myself from the email group? Thanks from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 19:37:17 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THE LOOK. Dave L from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 19:52:56 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides After spending the last 30 years refinishing fire arms. I have done aboutevery kindof plating and finishing there is. The bright chrome you see is calleddecoritivechrome. It is usually plated over nickel and that is plated over copper.Thisis a very good protective finnish. Hard chrome on the other hand is a harder finnishbut usuallynot as protective. Hard chrome is porous. If you look under a microscope,you will see that there are fine cracks in the chrome. Hard chrome is usuallyplateddirectly on the base metal. These hair line cracks will let in moistureandthe basemetal under the hard chrome will rust causing the chrome to flake off,leaving arusty guide or what ever the base metal is. I don't know if Perfection isplatingthe hard chrome directly on the guides or nickel plating them first.Usuallywhenthe metal is nickel plated first, the hard chrome will come out shiny. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 20:05:17 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Replacement Jon,Is this male ferrule Nickel Silver or chrome plated brass? I'll lookintomy used treasures and see if I can come up with something Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 20:28:05 1998 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale ferrules? The only thing I didn't like about the ferrules I bought from him a fewyearsago, is that they are metric instead of 64s. They are made in England byGraham"s brother. Dave LeClair from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 5 21:14:24 1998 Subject: the look Dave; I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad THE LOOK can't kill, I would havebeen dead about 24 years ago, not to mention every time a package withrodbuiling stuff shows up at our door.My salvation is I don't go to bars orchase womenJohn Channer from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Feb 5 21:35:31 1998 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale ferrules? They are definifely not as nice as Classic Sporting Ent. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 5 21:40:25 1998 Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:39:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japaning? On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THE LOOK. Dave L except from their mum! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Feb 5 22:23:10 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 5Feb 1998 10:35:52 +0000 Subject: Steelhead I was just wondering if anyone near the Slamon River in NY would like to meet for some fishing Sat. morning? I am getting itchy to get outside and fish. Sorry to take up the bandwidth. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Feb 5 23:30:12 1998 Subject: Re: Drive belt -Just tried something new that worked so well I'm still giddy. For mybindingbelt, I made a spliced loop of Cortland dacron "greenspot" trolling line. Thestuff is braided without a core so it lies flat on the rod. To splice I usedthe splicing needle also made by Cortland (I think). Anyway, there is noknotand the smoothness is a real treat. The idea wasn't totally mine EricHeckmanat Coren's Rod and Reel in Chicago (773-631-5202) where I get most ofmycomponents came up with a solution to my problem. Everything held upgreat andI have 2 rod blanks hanging in the string. Give Eric a call if interested ashe would know the correct line test (I think it's 40#). Rob Hoffhines from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 6 00:43:34 1998 Subject: drive belt Rob;I use a braided line that comes on a plastic reel sold for constructionlay- out or for masons line. I don't even know what it costs, but I'm sureits cheap, my boss gave it to me because he didn't like it, there's about500 yards on a reel and it can't be more than about $5.00. Look for thehollow braided line, I've seen both kinds.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 6 01:30:45 1998 Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:30:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: the look On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, john channer wrote: Dave; I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad THE LOOK can't kill, I would havebeen dead about 24 years ago, not to mention every time a package withrodbuiling stuff shows up at our door.My salvation is I don't go to bars orchase womenJohn Channer John, you're doing it all wrong. The late Gene Hill described what I saw demonstrated as an art form by my dad when I was a kid.Get your gear sent to a trusted friend's place and have him repack it all in an oversized box with old news papers and dead cockroaches and stuff then have him come over unannounced *while your wife is home*.He gives you this "old junk" he found that is too good to just throw out without seeing if his old friend would like some of it.You have to kind of politely sneer at it and chuck it in the corner and say you'll have a look later. When he's gone and your wife is watching walk over and give it a sort of tyre kickers kick and suggest going out hide it for a few weeks.If the wife is suspecious, just keep the details to the barest minimum and grin a lot.Dad lost the plot once and Mum zeroed in on him like wives sometimes do. Poor dad twisted and jumped about like a hooked steelhead but he paid the price in the end. "The Look" for a few weeks. It was just rotten luck Mum knew what a Weatherby was. I sometimes feel I'm missing out on a lot of the fun as I don't have these probles (so far). Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jefffly@choice.net Fri Feb 6 06:36:05 1998 HAA08991 Subject: Tonkin cane was delivered! I have received my first shipment of cane yesterday. I guess it is goodquality cane. I'm too new to this to know for sure. There are some growersmarks on a couple of culms, a leaf node I noticed and a couple of othersmall abrasions. One piece is big time out of round. I dont know if that isnormal or the first piece I use to practice splitting? The first moments of looking at the cane involved excitement, beingintimidated, back to excitement, and then feeling over whelmed. After anights sleep and re-reading the begining of every book on culms of cane, Ihave calmed down and will be able to start splitting cane this weekend. I'm confident that I can do this! I keep thinking of using split-cane rodsthat I have made with my own hands, fishing wih flies that I've tied, in asmall stream I love to fish with nobody else around. Thanks for everyones help in the past and in the future. Jeff Arnold Hamilton, Ohio from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Feb 6 07:43:14 1998 0700 Subject: Re: [1] Drive belt At 00:30 06/02/98 EST, you wrote:-Just tried something new that worked so well I'm still giddy. For mybindingbelt, I made a spliced loop of Cortland dacron "greenspot" trolling line.Thestuff is braided without a core so it lies flat on the rod. To splice I usedthe splicing needle also made by Cortland (I think). Anyway, there is noknotand the smoothness is a real treat. The idea wasn't totally mine EricHeckmanat Coren's Rod and Reel in Chicago (773-631- 5202) where I get most ofmycomponents came up with a solution to my problem. Everything held upgreatandI have 2 rod blanks hanging in the string. Give Eric a call if interested ashe would know the correct line test (I think it's 40#). Rob Hoffhines Rob, I know that there was a discussion of how to build a belt the same as youdescribe a couple of years ago on Rodmakers. The Best of the PlanningFormbook has the drawings and description of the technique by Gerry Arbeirterof Vancouver BC. I learned it from him about 8 years ago. about 50 lb. dacron. And they don't wear out. I think both Bass Pro and Cabela's sell the heavier dacron weights. Forthose guys on both coasts, the saltwater tackle shops sell the line for BIGfish. regards, Don from harry37@epix.net Fri Feb 6 07:47:45 1998 IAA28742 Subject: Re: Japaning? Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THELOOK. Dave L except from their mum! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/But it doesn't have the same effect! Greg Kuntz from JMennen473@aol.com Fri Feb 6 08:20:31 1998 Subject: Re: Drive belt to all: I am making braided binding belts out of a cotton/polyester cord for theGarrison binder. Very strong and knottless - any one interested e-mailme direct. John M. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 6 14:23:09 1998 Subject: Waxing A few days ago I posted about experimenting on waxing the plane sole.I've also have tried waxing the plane blade, and waxing the planing form.Waxing the plane blade does make a big difference, but it lasts for onlya couple splines. Waxing the blade also reduces the effort to plane, and along with waxing the sole, talk about a hot knife through warm butter!But, like I said, it lasts for only a couple splines. I don't think it's worththe effort to stop and take your plane apart to rewax every couple ofsplines. Waxing your planing form helps in making the effects of waxingyour plane sole last longer. Another plus with waxing your planing formis it should reduce the rusting of your forms when you are not using it. Darryl Hayashida from jczimny@dol.net Fri Feb 6 14:34:30 1998 Subject: YLI Anyone know the phone and address of the YLI Company?John zimny from DrBamboo@aol.com Fri Feb 6 15:00:18 1998 Subject: Re: YLI John;They moved from Utah to South Carolina.Nothin could be finah. Phone #800-854-1932. GEM from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 6 15:13:15 1998 Subject: RE:YLI RO>Anyone know the phone and address of the YLI Company?RO>John zimny YLI Thread Corp.P.O. Box 109Provo, UT 84603-1932(800) 854-1932 Angler's Workshop sells the YLI thread as their own Angler's brand and Iwould think that you could order in smaller quanities too. (360)225-9445 from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Feb 6 15:39:11 1998 ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:26:29 +1300 Subject: Re: Japaning? At 08:48 AM 6/02/98 -0500, you wrote:Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THELOOK. Dave L except from their mum! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/.WOW did I get .....THE LOOK .....today when I was to busy playing with thenewly arrived Snakemaker from Dave .. while the cows had got out andwere inthe garden chewing the roses .. Those experienced with THE LOOK , and not smart enough to have carriedTony's recommended avoidence measures , will know that it can be gradedbetween C- and A+ , a little like an old rod . This was a grade A+ ... LOOK ... once seen never forgotten .. iank Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Feb 6 16:04:25 1998 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA209212503; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:01:43 -0800 Subject: Magazine Has anyone received a copy of the Bamboo Flyrod Magazine or heard anymore updates since Wayne's general memo passed along on Jan. 7th? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jtien@ptdcs2.intel.com Fri Feb 6 16:20:43 1998 AA16222(5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 6 Feb 199814:20:39-0800 Subject: my rod refinishing project and winding check Hi,First off, I's like to thank all they have emailed me and offeredsuggestionson the type of finish I should use on the rod. The information is greatly appreciated. Now I have a question on winding checks.... 1. Normal winding checks available on the market are circular in shape;how isthat usually used on a hex rod? Do I have to shape the Ni-silver in somewayto fit the blank? 2. I recalled there was a discussion a while about hex winding checks andhow tomake them. Howver, I've neglected to save those messages. Can some kindsoul repost the instructions or point me to an archive for those recentmessages? Thanks in advance. Joe from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 6 16:40:03 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine No word yet for me. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: MagazineDate: Friday, February 06, 1998 2:04 PM Has anyone received a copy of the Bamboo Flyrod Magazine or heard anymore updates since Wayne's general memo passed along on Jan. 7th? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Feb 6 17:29:45 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Drive belt I made a modification of Garrison's binder based on Bob Crompton'sbinder, but not just like it. After fiddling around with it it worksgreat. The belt I'm currently using is 1/8" space age stuff that yousplice by melting the ends together with a soldering iron. It worksgreat for bigger diameter sections, but not so well for the skinny endsof tips. I'm going to play with the length of the belt, but may trydacron for tips next time. Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 6 18:14:15 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine I talked to Mark Metcalf on wednesday of this week and the magazines areatthe postoffice to be delivered. You should see it in your mailbox late nextweek or early the following.Bret from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Feb 6 18:26:50 1998 19:26:14 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: test message from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:10:53 1998 Subject: Re: the look John,I'm with you. I don't do bars or chase women.The only thing I do isfish andbuy my toys ( and work ). And as you said. If THE LOOK could kill, i'd beendead many years ago. Lukely, they get over it. Dave from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:20:25 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Tony,You've got a point there. My mum could give some looks that couldkill. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:24:00 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? When she gives me The Look , if it lasts more than one day. It's like themovie" The Night of the Living Dead ". I go out in my shop and stay there. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:31:34 1998 Subject: Re: YLI John,YLI CorporationP.O. Box 109Provo, ut 84603-01091-800-854-1932 1-801-377-3900 My latest order came from: YLI Corporation161 W. Main St.Rock Hill, SC 29730 PH. 803-985-3100FAX-803-985-3106 Hope this helps- Dave LeClair from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Feb 6 19:34:56 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Waxing SalarFly@aol.com wrote: A few days ago I posted about experimenting on waxing the plane sole.Big Snip from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:37:21 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Ian,I hope you've got a shop to hide in for a while. It sounds like shewillnot want to see your face for a while. Better keep those cows in check. Dave LeClair from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Feb 6 19:41:06 1998 (AIX4.2/UCB8.7/8.7) with SMTP id UAA51924 for ; Fri,6 Feb 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Hmmm, mailing out product before invoices arrive???Anyone receive a bill yet?Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/a.htm Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: I talked to Mark Metcalf on wednesday of this week and the magazinesare atthe postoffice to be delivered. You should see it in your mailbox late nextweek or early the following.Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:41:28 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Bret,When you get yours, could you e-mail me the info to subscribe to themag. Thanks, Dave LeClair from Canerods@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:56:26 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine In a message dated 98-02-06 20:43:52 EST, you write: Nope. Don B. from Canerods@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:56:49 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine In a message dated 98-02-06 20:44:02 EST, you write: Dave, Do it on their web site - you got the url? Don B. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:16:05 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Don,I don't have there url. Could you give it to me? Thanks, Dave L. from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 6 20:30:06 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/index2.html ----------From: LECLAIR123@aol.com Subject: Re: MagazineDate: Friday, February 06, 1998 6:14 PM Don,I don't have there url. Could you give it to me? Thanks, Dave L. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 6 20:32:45 1998 Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:32:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japaning? On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: When she gives me The Look , if it lasts more than one day. It's like themovie" The Night of the Living Dead ". I go out in my shop and stay there. Dave L. It's been going on for years. Imagine what Mr caveman got from Mrs caveman when he traded the hindquarter of (megafauna of your choice) for that neat new fangled clovis point some old guy in the cave down the valley just started chipping out. I wonder if he ever used the point or just hung it up on the wall? ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 6 20:35:39 1998 Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:35:32 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japaning? On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Ian Kearney wrote:.WOW did I get .....THE LOOK .....today when I was to busy playing with thenewly arrived Snakemaker from Dave .. while the cows had got out andwere inthe garden chewing the roses .. Those experienced with THE LOOK , and not smart enough to have carriedTony's recommended avoidence measures , will know that it can begradedbetween C- and A+ , a little like an old rod . This was a grade A+ ... LOOK ... once seen never forgotten .. At least they didn't make it to the living room!!! If that'd happened it'd have been all over red rover:-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:40:39 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Don, Thanks alot. I'll check it out. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:46:23 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? At least Mr. Caveman could club his wife for giving him the Look. Nowdays,allwe have to do is think of it and she will have you arrested. Boy, what apredicament we got our selves into.Life sure was alot easyer when I was single,livinghomewith mum and pop. What ya gonna do. Dave L. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:55:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Magazine Davce, will do I also have his phone# (ah caller ID) if you want to call him.bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:58:02 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Magazine Mark said the invoices are on the way also. like most magazines youususllyreceive the mag b4 the invoice.bret from harsha@aros.net Fri Feb 6 21:04:37 1998 20:04:32 Subject: Re: Japaning? LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: When she gives me The Look , if it lasts more than one day. It's like themovie" The Night of the Living Dead ". I go out in my shop and stay there. Dave L. I've been divorced since 1979. Forgotten what the "LOOK" looks like. Iguess being an ugly old 54 year old bachelor has it's advantages!!!!!! Mike from wfmack@evansville.net Sat Feb 7 00:34:14 1998 (1568 bytes) by world.evansville.netvia sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) ()(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: Heating Nodeless. Onis Cogburn wrote: I am curious how you nodeless rod builders are heat treating thecane. Up until now I have been putting the split pieces on a cookiesheet. However, I do not like the results. The short sections bowand I would like to avoid this result if possible. I kind of like heat treating before splitting but I tried splitting first.I bundled the splits in bunches of six and bound them using an old homadebobbin and some quilting thread. The idea was to let the heat do some ofthe straightning. It worked, they came out straight. If you are heatinghigh temp for a short period of time, splitting first would probably givethe most uniform temperature distribution but if you are heating at aslowenough rate for the bamboo temperature to equalize, I prefer heatingbeforesplitting. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.comCraig--What time and temp did you use on your nodeless bundles? Thanks. Bill from dragnfly@uniserve.com Sat Feb 7 03:32:51 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Yes please email me the info as well,Thanxsteve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Magazine Bret,When you get yours, could you e-mail me the info to subscribe tothemag. Thanks, Dave LeClair from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Feb 7 06:41:17 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Magazine Steve,There is a web page and I'm sure someone will put up the address heresoonthat is how i subscribed. If not I will e-mail you the info.Bret from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Feb 7 06:56:13 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA20213 for; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:03:53 GMT Subject: Re: the look At 19:04 05/02/98, you wrote:Dave; I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad THE LOOK can't kill, I would havebeen dead about 24 years ago, not to mention every time a package withrodbuiling stuff shows up at our door.My salvation is I don't go to bars orchase womenJohn Channer Really sorry to hear that John. I can thoroughly recommend both. JC from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 7 07:29:39 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides At 20:47 05/02/98 EST, you wrote:After spending the last 30 years refinishing fire arms. I have done aboutevery kindof plating and finishing there is. The bright chrome you see is calleddecoritivechrome. It is usually plated over nickel and that is plated over copper. Dave, from what I've been told the Perfection SSGC guides are hard chromeplatedover stainless. They sure are bright though. Very unlike the ones Ireceived lately. Am concerned about the quality of the later ones. Havewrote to Perfection for an explanation of what's going on. Let the listknow when I get the result. I know from previous experience that some snake guides sold have nochromeor other hardened finish @ all. They last poorly. I got a bunch about 25years ago - figured I had a deal - they were about 1/2 the cost of thePerfection guides. Well the "cheapies" lasted about a year and then theyhad groves in them. Just spooked that the "new" Perfection guides arehistory repeated. regards, Don from sonners2@bellsouth.net Sat Feb 7 09:29:03 1998 Subject: help me please I am starting a home based business building and repairng fishing rods ofall types.I was wanting to put together a labor price list so that I could share itwith my customers. My problem is not knowing what to charge for certainitems. If you could help me or know of a list I would appreciate it. Thank you My e-mail address is sonners2@bellsouth.net Anthony from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 7 09:56:47 1998 Subject: web George (GEM) have you got your web site up yet? jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 7 10:24:00 1998 Subject: Re: NS source assistance Can Nickle Silver wire be hardened enough to use for guides? if so,whats the process. jerry from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Feb 7 10:36:34 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides I know from previous experience that some snake guides sold have nochromeor other hardened finish @ all. They last poorly. I got a bunch about 25years ago - figured I had a deal - they were about 1/2 the cost of thePerfection guides. Well the "cheapies" lasted about a year and then theyhad groves in them. Just spooked that the "new" Perfection guides arehistory repeated. regards, Don, I have been "using" perfection for the last year or so and have gottonvarious sizes from various vendors around the country - many differentvariations of black, but all very hard when I try to file the feet - boththe surface chrome and the base metal have been tough materialespeciallythe chrome. Have you tried fileing the feet or simply daring to run aswiss file over any part of the guide? That at least should say somethingabout the surface hardness Ted G. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Feb 7 11:40:59 1998 Subject: Bamboo Rod Mag. URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 7 11:44:52 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry - To the best of my knowledge, none of the nickel silver alloys canbehardened by any method except work hardening. In other words, you wouldhaveto buy the wire hard drawn to begin with. Even if you do this the hardnesswill not approach that of a modern coated guide, or of the old styletungstensteel guides.I have seen the stuff used for guides on old rods, but wear resistance is adirect function of hardness. The most you can get out of NS at extra springtemper is a Rockwell hardness of about B 100, which corresponds to about20 onthe Rockwell C scale. Hard chrome plating is about C 60. That is a hugedifference. I would not recommend NS for guides unless the rod is to beverylightly used. from jczimny@dol.net Sat Feb 7 12:53:42 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry Foster wrote: assistance Can Nickle Silver wire be hardened enough to use for guides? if so,whats the process. jerryJerry,I would think that NS in any of the alloys would be a poor material forany type of surface that is subbect to abrasion. It cannot be hardenedexcept by work hardening. You'd have to buy it drawn in the full hardcondition. I would opt for stainless in one of the "hardenable" alloys.John from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 7 14:22:40 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry Foster wrote:Can Nickle Silver wire be hardened enough to use for guides? if so,whats the process.Jerry,I would say "No", it cannot be hardened enough to withstand muchshooting of line. It was certainly used, and I can send you a few if youneed them; when I bought a rod a few years ago that had NS snakes Ireplaced them with reverse twist, low-profile snakes. Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 7 14:26:47 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry,Strangely, while I have little confidence in the wear of NS snakes, Ihave a NS stripper that has seen a lot of use and shows no trace ofgrooving.Best regards,Reed from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 7 14:38:13 1998 Subject: guides Thanks guys I had come buy several rolls of NS wire and had tried several hardeningtechniques.. to no avail. so I think the consensus is that it's not apractical solution. I'll use it for hook keepers..thanks for all the input jerry from DrBamboo@aol.com Sat Feb 7 16:31:06 1998 Subject: Re: web Jerry;Nave a listing on flyfish . com Just upgraded computer so we candesigna page from here.Can I get a listing on your rodmakers page and get you the webpage later? Thanks,George from servodyne@fda.net Sat Feb 7 16:31:23 1998 ns2.fda.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10259 for Subject: H.L. Leonard Rod Gentlemen: I am just new here on Rodmakers and wondered if someone wouldbe kindenough to help me... I have an opportunity to purchase a H.L. Leonardfly rod but I really don't know what the real value might be, how old itis etc...Here is a description of the rod and any guidance you canprovide is greatly appreciated... Further this rod will need to beprofessionally restored..is there anyone here who has experience withthis..probably is...this seems like the place where the rod gurus hangout!!! Can anyone tell me who could do such a restoration??? Here is the description:It is an H.L. Leonard 3 piece fly rod with 2 tips and has the followingmarkings opposite the reel seat: H.L. Leonard maker W. Mills & Son, NewYork Sole Agents. The main piece is 40.5" long, center piece is 33.5"long, yje 2 tips are 39" long and 38.5" long.. . Both tip ferrules havebeen replaced as well as the piece that the ferrule goes into on themiddle piece.... There is no visible crushing or dings on the bamboo..and each piece is straight without warpage...or any signs ofde-lamination...it is considered to be very clean and has been in theround bamboo case for years... The case appears very old (like ancientold!) and the owner thinks that it may be the original one that the rodcame with. It appears that it could use a proper restoration though...Any help you can give me would be much appreciated... Thank You,Mike Davis from DrBamboo@aol.com Sat Feb 7 16:42:14 1998 Subject: Re: H.L. Leonard Rod Mike;Contact Len Codella @ len@codelle.com or Bob Corsetti at603-886- 0411.Bothare dealers in vintage collectible tackle as well as new cane rods.GEM from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Sat Feb 7 16:58:54 1998 (AST) 7 Feb 98 18:04:04 -0500 0500 7 Feb 98 18:03:31 -0500 Subject: Planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0076_01BD33F2.B0A5CCC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BD33F2.B0A5CCC0 Who can tell me how many different planes you have to use and also what=are the makes and models that you suggest to use.John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~jmckinnon.students ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BD33F2.B0A5CCC0 Who can tell me how many different planesyou = use and also what are the makes and models that you suggest to =use.John F. =McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~j=mckinnon.students ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BD33F2.B0A5CCC0-- from servodyne@fda.net Sat Feb 7 17:04:18 1998 ns2.fda.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14668 for Subject: Re: H.L. Leonard Rod GEM,Thank for the tip ...much appreciated!!!Best Regards,Mike DrBamboo@aol.com wrote: Mike;Contact Len Codella @ len@codelle.com or Bob Corsetti at603-886- 0411.Bothare dealers in vintage collectible tackle as well as new cane rods.GEM from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 7 17:56:45 1998 Subject: Re: H.L. Leonard Rod M. Davis wrote:It is an H.L. Leonard 3 piece fly rod with 2 tips and has the followingmarkings opposite the reel seat: H.L. Leonard maker W. Mills & Son, NewYork Sole Agents. The main piece is 40.5" long, center piece is 33.5"long, yje 2 tips are 39" long and 38.5" long.. . Both tip ferrules havebeen replaced as well as the piece that the ferrule goes into on themiddle piece.... There is no visible crushing or dings on the bamboo..and each piece is straight without warpage...or any signs ofde-lamination...it is considered to be very clean and has been in the Mike,IMO with the short mid (7" is quite a loss for a mid-section) the rodis of value only for parts. Ten foot Leonards varied greatly in what wewould consider proper casting qualities. I think you would be better offwith a 9' specimen of their work, these can be quite reasonably pricedand feel much lighter in the hand.Best regards,Reed from servodyne@fda.net Sat Feb 7 18:22:57 1998 ns2.fda.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18203 for Subject: Re: H.L. Leonard Rod Reed,Thank you for your kind help..yes it appears that this rod is cut bigtime as each section should be of equal lengths...yes I am looking for afishing rod to use not something that is a pain to cast...so I thinkthat I will pass on this and look for a better specimen in 7.5' to 8'weight 5 ... Thanks again...Best Regards,Mike Reed F. Curry wrote: M. Davis wrote:It is an H.L. Leonard 3 piece fly rod with 2 tips and has thefollowingmarkings opposite the reel seat: H.L. Leonard maker W. Mills & Son,NewYork Sole Agents. The main piece is 40.5" long, center piece is33.5"long, yje 2 tips are 39" long and 38.5" long.. . Both tip ferruleshavebeen replaced as well as the piece that the ferrule goes into on the middle piece.... There is no visible crushing or dings on thebamboo..and each piece is straight without warpage...or any signs ofde-lamination...it is considered to be very clean and has been inthe Mike,IMO with the short mid (7" is quite a loss for a mid-section)the rodis of value only for parts. Ten foot Leonards varied greatly in whatwewould consider proper casting qualities. I think you would be betteroffwith a 9' specimen of their work, these can be quite reasonably priced and feel much lighter in the hand.Best regards,Reed from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Feb 7 19:05:20 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Bret,Thanks, I would appreciate that. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Feb 7 19:05:38 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Mike, You'r lucky, in some ways. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Feb 7 19:16:28 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry,I'm not sure if n/s wire can be hardened . I will check my metalworkingbooks for any info. There are also different n/s wires out there. 12%-18%etc.There may be a harder n/s wire out there, say 20%+ which may be hardenough.Only, if it is that hard, how are you going to bend it to form the guide? I have some 18% wire here, I'll do some experimenting with it and letyou know. Dave L. from d_price@global2000.net Sat Feb 7 19:45:07 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id UAA17980 for; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:44:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Waxing SalarFly@aol.com wrote: A few days ago I posted about experimenting on waxing the plane sole.I've also have tried waxing the plane blade, and waxing the planing form.Waxing the plane blade does make a big difference, but it lasts for onlya couple splines. Waxing the blade also reduces the effort to plane, andalong with waxing the sole, talk about a hot knife through warm butter!But, like I said, it lasts for only a couple splines. I don't think it's worththe effort to stop and take your plane apart to rewax every couple ofsplines. Waxing your planing form helps in making the effects of waxingyour plane sole last longer. Another plus with waxing your planing formis it should reduce the rusting of your forms when you are not using it. Darryl Hayashida Darryl I have a big smile, seems like you and a couple of others haveseen what waxing will do for you.I'm glad I could contribute somethingthat seems worthwhile to this mailing list that Iv'e learned so muchfromkeep up the good work!!!!. Dave Price (try it on table saws and jointers,wow!) from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sat Feb 7 21:07:07 1998 Subject: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing Rich-Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, I was out of town all week. This is froma late 1920's, 91/2', Granger Special. Spacing's from the end of the tiploop with the rod assembled. 6 5/8, 12 3/4, 20 1/4, 28 1/4, 36 1/2, ferrule, 40 7/8, 50, 61 1/2, 741/8,ferrule, 83 1/4(stripper) The 36 1/2 + 40 7/8 butt up against the ferrule tabs and the 74 1/8 buttsagainst the mid ferrule. Hope this helps, Dennis from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Feb 7 21:11:44 1998 Subject: Re: Waxing There is a slickery stuff for equipment called BoeShield, it's made herein HOlland for use on Boeing Aircraft. No silicone or oil residue, andit's slicker than a gut leader dipped in grape jelly. Brian from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Feb 8 04:39:10 1998 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale ferrules? EAA26539 I have just taken delivery of 4 sets of these ferrules and they have a nicefinish to them and I think good value. Mick. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 8 08:57:47 1998 Subject: Turbo torch T-7 Wayne C.,Sorry wrong torch was wondering about turbo Torch not Surefire.Bret from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 8 09:53:44 1998 Subject: Len Codella All;Itried to e-mail Len Codella at the address posted the other day and itcame back host unknown. Does anyone have a correct address and does hehavea web site?John (too cheap to use the phone)Channer from DrBamboo@aol.com Sun Feb 8 12:13:15 1998 Subject: Re: Len Codella Address for Len Codella is len@codella.com from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 8 13:14:34 1998 Subject: address George;Thanks, I'll try that spelling, maybe I misspelled it when tried before.John Channer from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Feb 8 13:45:09 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 8Feb 1998 14:46:03 +0000 Subject: Varnish Does someone know the # for the warnish Wayne reccomends. I bought some but misplaced the phone #. I was using the 77-504. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 8 14:13:31 1998 Subject: Re: Quad rod Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: John,I was wondering why when I asked you about help with possibly trying tobuilda quad rod for myself you were not willing to divulge any information astothe process.BretMy Dear BretYou realize that I have worked really hard for the last five yearsdeveloping techniques for making quads by buying old Edwards rods,dismantling them, and then trying to decide how they did it. Then Ispent about $3000 on chucks and NS tube so that I could make theferrules. Then I spent 3 years working on tapers that worked. I Learnedto make the necessary tools and dies so that I could make a first rateproduct. All the while, the existing quad makers would tell me very, very little.And that is as it should be. And, I would not have had the bad mannersto ask. Now, when they know that I actually make a decent rod, we share informtion freely. As in everything that is good and true, one has topay dues. Right now I have a small business and 65% of my business is in quads.Would anyone expect to go to a Drug Company and have them share theirproprietary processes. Them why does anyone expect me to share mine? In point of fact, I did tell you how to make a quad. What I did'nt tellyou has been written about and is readily available. What I am notprepared to do is to write a 400 page essay soley for your own use.Remember, no one has a duty to gratify your every wish. Lastly, I am appalled that you would have lack of personal dignity toask such a question. John Zimny from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 8 15:26:57 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Varnish Jon Lintvet wrote: Does someone know the # for the warnish Wayne reccomends. I boughtsome but misplaced the phone #. I was using the 77-504. Jon LintvetJohn, are you looking for the phone # or varnish number. It's PittsburgPaints number 77-5, poly. Any Pittsburg Paint store can get it for you. Harry Boyd from jsbond@inforamp.net Sun Feb 8 17:15:04 1998 Subject: Re: Planes John, The world seems to agree on the Stanley or the Record 9 1/2. The samepeopledon't agree on blades and sharpening, but what the heck. I think the Hockblades are great and worth the money but the factory iron properly tunedandsharpened will work fine. You may have to tune the plane body too, it isnothard, just requires a little elbow grease, welcome to rod making. JB At 18:03 07/02/98 -0500, you wrote:Who can tell me how many different planes you have to use and also whatarethe makes and models that you suggest to use.John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~jmckinnon.students Who can tell me how many different planesyou have to use and also what are the makes and models that you suggest touse.John F. nnon.students James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from SowderJL@aol.com Sun Feb 8 17:23:55 1998 Subject: Re: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (or any9'6"Granger for that matter)? Thanks. --Rich The following guide spacings come from a 9 1/2-foot Goodwin Granger Denver Special, one of the older models from the 20s before the Special was introduced. The problem is that the tip on this rod is 2 1/4 inches short. I assume that it was broken at the tip end rather than the butt end, but 7" seems quite a ways down for the first guide. 7"13 3/821 1/428 5/836 3/8 (bottom of tip section)40 3/8 (top of mid section)5061 1/274 1/483 1/4 Hope this helps. Matt Clifford _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I also have a 9'6" Granger Special. Its from the 'Coke bottle' grip era. Thetip is 4" short, but starting with the second guide (at 13 3/8") theymeasurethe same as above down to the striping guide (83 1/4"). Jim from brookside.rod@juno.com Sun Feb 8 19:10:04 1998 20:09:25 EST Subject: Re: Quads and paying dues. John, you have correctly addressed the infernal question. Those of us who build the cane rod in order to pay the bills are willingto help where we can.In the same way as you I have spent many years and invested more than afew of my family's dollars in my business. I believe that learning involves some effort andthat important things need significant effort. To me there is afterfamily, little in life more important than a good bamboo fly rod. Especially one of mine. Just as yours', my rods are what they are because of how I build them,the design, the methods, processes and equipment all built by me impartsome of my skill and personality into every rod. I am happy to assistsome in the building of their rods but I will not reveal to them how Ibuild my rods. While composing this note I've gone thru my archives. Ifind that during the past year I've answered forty seven email requests and varnishing and my impregnation process. Guides, cork, the works.Many of these questions came to me via my web site, some from this list. I believe that all my answers were helpful. Many I'm sure, wereprobably not complete enough to stand alone. The need to get the workthru the shop did not always permit a complete or detailed answer. Somefolks were looking for a quick fix. There were a few folks however, whenafter apparently trying a suggested course of action returned with morequestions of a more specific nature which confirmed the effort and aserious interest and to which I responded. I remember my grandfather telling me many years ago that nothing good inlife comes easy. I have found that he was right. John, I hope Somerset went well for you. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.commaker of fine handcrafted split bamboo fly rodsBrookside Rod Co.37 Brook Street Naugatuck, Ct. 06770- 3101on-line catalog: http://home.onestop.net/brookside end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 8 19:55:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japaning? Ian,It must have been Sunday morning about 3:00 A. m.-that's when minealwaysgot out and usually ate the neighbor's roses-talk about looks from allsides!Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 8 19:55:36 1998 Subject: Re: my rod refinishing project and winding check Joe,I usually use a check that fits over the blank and use 5 minute epoxy tofill the difference between the hex and the round.Hank. from DRinker370@aol.com Sun Feb 8 20:02:27 1998 Subject: Wood vs metal lathes I have been looking into a few small lathes for rodmaking. My question iswill a small metal lathe be a better choice overall, leaving open thepossibility of creating my own metal seats, ferrules,ect. Or am I lookingfortoo much from one tool. I have no experience with metals but plenty withwood. Is metal working in rodmaking that difficult? Thanks in advanceDave from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Feb 8 20:39:58 1998 Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:39:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes I have been looking into a few small lathes for rodmaking. My questioniswill a small metal lathe be a better choice overall, leaving open thepossibility of creating my own metal seats, ferrules,ect. Or am I lookingfortoo much from one tool. I have no experience with metals but plentywithwood. Is metal working in rodmaking that difficult? Thanks in advanceDave I bought a Sherline which is an excellent lathe, however as many here will agree you'll wind up wanting to use the lathe for more tasks sooner or later and a larger lathe bought from the start will be money betterspent. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Feb 8 21:02:41 1998 Subject: Its looking like a museum around here All,I do not wish to make a vulgar commercial statement, but I thoughtsomeone on the list might appreciate the following.In looking for something, I found that "things" had been accumulatingbeyond my capacity to use them. So I'm cleaning up a bit. I've puttogether a "kit" perfect for the 1930's fly fisherman. Email me directly Wayne, I also found two boxes from silk lines. They are yours (I'llbring them to grayling in June) but I need a beer at Spike's inrecompense.Best regards,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 8 21:23:08 1998 Subject: Re: help me please Anthony,Figure time required for a given job and bill accordingly.Hank. from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Feb 8 22:38:35 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Dear Dave If you get a wood lathe, you will play hell trying to do any kind of accuratework on any of the processes used to make parts for a flyrod. If, on the other hand, you get a good metal lathe, you can make your ownferrules, reel seats, winding checks, butt plates and, if you get reelambitious... Actually, it depends on what you mean by "small metal lathes". There aresomevery small lathes made for model builders that I would not advise buyingforany purpose. The best route, considering you have room and can do a little modificationtoyour garage's wiring, is to look around for an old South Bend or Craftsman-something like that. Try to find out if it's got Timken bearings in thehead.This will make a large difference in the degree of accuracy you can expecttomaintain under a load. Since I don't recall you saying whether you have any experience on thisequipment, I might advise you taking a night class at your local highschoolor trade school. This usually doesn't cost much and can easily pay backthetime and money, perhaps manyfold. Hope this information does you some good. I paid top dollar for it ;-)Davy from richjez@enteract.com Sun Feb 8 22:45:28 1998 0000 Lrichjez.enteract.com)(207.229.150.112) Subject: Re: Japaning? Hank,It sounds like she was chasing a white rabbit.Rich Jezioro At 08:54 PM 2/8/98 EST, you wrote:Ian,It must have been Sunday morning about 3:00 A. m.-that's when minealwaysgot out and usually ate the neighbor's roses-talk about looks from allsides!Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 8 23:53:25 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Dear Dave If you get a wood lathe, you will play hell trying to do any kind ofaccuratework on any of the processes used to make parts for a flyrod. If, on the other hand, you get a good metal lathe, you can make your ownferrules, reel seats, winding checks, butt plates and, if you get reelambitious... Actually, it depends on what you mean by "small metal lathes". Thereare somevery small lathes made for model builders that I would not advise buyingforany purpose. The best route, considering you have room and can do a littlemodification toyour garage's wiring, is to look around for an old South Bend orCraftsman- something like that. Try to find out if it's got Timken bearings in thehead.This will make a large difference in the degree of accuracy you canexpect tomaintain under a load. Since I don't recall you saying whether you have any experience on thisequipment, I might advise you taking a night class at your local highschoolor trade school. This usually doesn't cost much and can easily pay backthetime and money, perhaps manyfold. Hope this information does you some good. I paid top dollar for it ;-)Davy Southbend nor the Atlas/Craftsman lathes have roller bearins. They havebronze bush/bearings that are contained in an oil bath. They are, atleast potentially, the quietest and the most accrurate of all bearingtypes.John from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Mon Feb 9 00:47:05 1998 IAA05173 Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: Re: Planes ----------From: rodmakers Subject: Re: PlanesDate: 9. February 1998 01:28 John, The world seems to agree on the Stanley or the Record 9 1/2. The same peopledon't agree on blades and sharpening, but what the heck. I think the Hockblades are great and worth the money but the factory iron properly tuned andsharpened will work fine. You may have to tune the plane body too, it is nothard, just requires a little elbow grease, welcome to rod making. JB I was thinking the same plane question that was asked. Mr. Garrison used several different kind of planes; small palm planes (huh, what might thatbe in finnish), stanley #60.5 ans stanley #9.5 (at least these can be found from his book). Do I understand it right if I say you guys are using stanley #9.5 every time when planing is needed. Or even better, am I able to builda rod with satisfying results if I buy only stanley #9.5 ( I am trying to get tools etc. so I can start this thing going). Seppo from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 9 03:45:26 1998 Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:45:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Planes On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Karkkainen Seppo NTC/BS-OU wrote: The world seems to agree on the Stanley or the Record 9 1/2. The same peopledon't agree on blades and sharpening, but what the heck. I think theHockblades are great and worth the money but the factory iron properlytuned I was thinking the same plane question that was asked. Mr. Garrison used several different kind of planes; small palm planes (huh, what might thatbe in finnish), stanley #60.5 ans stanley #9.5 (at least these can be found from his book). Do I understand it right if I say you guys are usingstanley #9.5 every time when planing is needed. Or even better, am I able tobuild a rod with satisfying results if I buy only stanley #9.5 ( I am trying to get tools etc. so I can start this thing going). Seppo Yep, you can use ONLY a #9 1/2 (or 60 1/2 if you have one) and forget the rest unless you'd also like to spring for a LN scraper some day though more than a few on this list don't see the need for one of these. Garrison knew his stuff and is an icon to the craft but he seemed to be a planeamaniac and found a way to use every plane he had for every rod he made. Or so it seemes. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jmdavis@hsc.vcu.edu Mon Feb 9 08:49:21 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id AAA4948 Subject: Re: Its looking like a museum around here Just how would the archetypal 1930's fly fisherman be outfitted? I wouldbe interested in receiving your list. Thanks, Mike Davis Reed F. Curry wrote: All,I do not wish to make a vulgar commercial statement, but I thoughtsomeone on the list might appreciate the following.In looking for something, I found that "things" had beenaccumulatingbeyond my capacity to use them. So I'm cleaning up a bit. I've puttogether a "kit" perfect for the 1930's fly fisherman. Email me directly Wayne, I also found two boxes from silk lines. They are yours (I'llbring them to grayling in June) but I need a beer at Spike's inrecompense.Best regards,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net -- Mike Davis University Computing Services-MCVSGI Systems Administrator Virginia Commonwealth Universityjmdavis@hsc.vcu.edu 804-828-9843 x142 (fax: 804-828-9807) from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 9 09:50:09 1998 I have a 9 1/2 Stanley plane and also a small palm plane. (looks justlike the one Garrison used) I find that the palm plane is great for use with my tip scarf block.It's easy to handle for making short passes over the rod stub. Don'tknow if I'll use it for planing strips when I finally start making rods. Don Burns from thramer@presys.com Mon Feb 9 11:57:09 1998 0000 Subject: plane waxing This was mentioned briefl;y in a prior message, If ANY of the wax istransfered to the cane the glue will not bond completely. Perhaps enoughto "get it out the door" but it would surely fail when the chips weredown. There is no substitute for a properly tuned plane or bars. Withpractice the planing operation will no longer dig into the bars.As inmost things if it were easy it would not be worth doing. Considering the amount of time an amateur has in preparing the stripsit would be a monumental dissapointment for the resulting rod to fail inuse.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from d_price@global2000.net Mon Feb 9 12:49:48 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id NAA28301 for; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:49:34 -0500 Subject: Re: plane waxing A.J.Thramer wrote: This was mentioned briefl;y in a prior message, If ANY of the wax istransfered to the cane the glue will not bond completely. Perhaps enoughto "get it out the door" but it would surely fail when the chips weredown.There is no substitute for a properly tuned plane or bars. Withpractice the planing operation will no longer dig into the bars.As in>most things if it were easy it would not be worth doing.Considering the amount of time an amateur has in preparing the stripsit would be a monumental dissapointment for the resulting rod to fail inuse.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com Yes there is no substitute for a well tuned plane, waxing is after youget everything tuned up and working perfectly.Then try to wax it and seehow your new tool preforms. If waxed properly you will not have any waxtransfer. I can tell you havent tried this yet and are talking from yourlife experiance!!.Dave Price from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Feb 9 13:14:03 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing A.J., I got to cast one of your 4 wt rods that Mac MacDowell had the otherday at our Oregon Coast gathering. Very nice. My compliments. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: A.J.Thramer Subject: plane waxingDate: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:00 AM This was mentioned briefl;y in a prior message, If ANY of the wax istransfered to the cane the glue will not bond completely. Perhaps enoughto "get it out the door" but it would surely fail when the chips weredown. There is no substitute for a properly tuned plane or bars. Withpractice the planing operation will no longer dig into the bars.As inmost things if it were easy it would not be worth doing. Considering the amount of time an amateur has in preparing the stripsit would be a monumental dissapointment for the resulting rod to fail inuse.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 9 13:16:30 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japaning? Rich,185 beef cows and calves? Not a white rabbit in sight.Hank. from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 9 14:31:14 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23398 for Subject: Philosophy To the List,Many memories fade with the years, but I still vividly recall the timesback in the sixties when I as a beginner was stonewalled at every turn inmyefforts to get rod building help. Then along came Garrison at last revealingall his secrets, and most of all, the open-ness of builders on this list,and TPF. It was to me a revelation. But it seems that there are still twoschools of thought, and rightly so, when earning a living is involved. Iguess we should all be conscious of these facts of life. Bill from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Feb 9 14:40:50 1998 Subject: Re: Planes YES!!!! ----------From: Karkkainen Seppo NTC/BS-OU Subject: Re: PlanesDate: Monday, February 09, 1998 1:46 AM ----------From: rodmakers Subject: Re: PlanesDate: 9. February 1998 01:28 John, The world seems to agree on the Stanley or the Record 9 1/2. The same peopledon't agree on blades and sharpening, but what the heck. I think theHockblades are great and worth the money but the factory iron properlytuned andsharpened will work fine. You may have to tune the plane body too, itis nothard, just requires a little elbow grease, welcome to rod making. JB I was thinking the same plane question that was asked. Mr. Garrison used several different kind of planes; small palm planes (huh, what might thatbe in finnish), stanley #60.5 ans stanley #9.5 (at least these can be found from his book). Do I understand it right if I say you guys are usingstanley #9.5 every time when planing is needed. Or even better, am I able tobuild a rod with satisfying results if I buy only stanley #9.5 ( I am trying toget tools etc. so I can start this thing going). Seppo from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 9 14:59:02 1998 15:58:14 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Planes You can build an entire rod with nothing more than a 9.5 plane. Later,you may decide that you want a scraper, but it is not a necessity to getstarted. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com I was thinking the same plane question that was asked. Mr. Garrisonused several different kind of planes; small palm planes (huh, what mightthatbe in finnish), stanley #60.5 ans stanley #9.5 (at least these can befound from his book). Do I understand it right if I say you guys are usingstanley #9.5 every time when planing is needed. Or even better, am I able tobuild a rod with satisfying results if I buy only stanley #9.5 ( I am tryingtoget tools etc. so I can start this thing going). Seppo from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Feb 9 16:02:27 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id WAA06965 for; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:22:00 +0100 (CET) Subject: No letters from List Hello Everybody I haven't had one single letter from the List for the last 5 days so Ipresume something is wrong, just don't know how/where. So please, allYouregular contributors, please return this to me with Your name on. ShouldYou happen to have any good ideas as to what is wrong, please respond. To Mike: Have checked with my provider, no mail from the list in my box,but test mail from friends have arrived. Do we have a listserver problem?This all started as I reinstalled Microsofts browser ver. 3.01 (I think).Suggestions are welcomed Regards Carsten Jorgensen from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Feb 9 16:20:55 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: No letters from List Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Hello Everybody I haven't had one single letter from the List for the last 5 days so Ipresume something is wrong, just don't know how/where. So please, allYouregular contributors, please return this to me with Your name on. ShouldYou happen to have any good ideas as to what is wrong, please respond. To Mike: Have checked with my provider, no mail from the list in my box,but test mail from friends have arrived. Do we have a listserverproblem?This all started as I reinstalled Microsofts browser ver. 3.01 (I think).Suggestions are welcomed Regards Carsten JorgensenCarsten, I had to unsubscribe, and then re-subscribe when I had asimilar problem. You may have to do the same, but don't take my advice,I barely know how to turn the computer on!!Harry Boyd from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Feb 9 16:53:53 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA10998 for; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:21:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: No letters Sorry Guys Lost my head because of PC problems. Please send me a note at c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk as I still don't get any letters from the List. Don't now if You receivethis, sent via Rodmakers page. There are times (right now) where I hate PC`s Best regards Carsten Jorgensenex PCfreak from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Feb 9 17:06:35 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Now Davy - Precission work on a good wood lathe is not impossible. Ireularly make wood boxes with friction fit tops that fit together "tothe thickness of smoke."You just have to practice. It's a lot like building a bamboo fly rod.The learning curve sure feels awfully damn flat at first, but youimprove in fits and starts. You can't make metal parts on a wood lathe, though. You CAN makereelseats on a metal lathe. Brian from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 9 17:23:14 1998 Subject: Re: Planes Seppo I hate to break ranks, in terms of personal preference, but the Recordis a much better tool. castings are better and the stock blade, whilenot a Hock, is pretty good. It also feels a little lighter in hand. Jerry from clancampbell@mcn.net Mon Feb 9 17:37:08 1998 Subject: how do I get off this listserver? I need off, I'm getting 500+ messages a day and I need to cut back, everytime I send a unsubscribe message I get all this stuff back, everything buta conformation of me off the list, any ideas on how to get off?Mike from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 9 17:44:11 1998 Subject: Re: Planes In a message dated 2/9/98 3:25:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,jfoster@gte.netwrites: I hate to break ranks, in terms of personal preference, but the Recordis a much better tool. castings are better and the stock blade, whilenot a Hock, is pretty good. It also feels a little lighter in hand. My feeling also. I prefer the Record, but my hands are smaller than average, so others may not. Darryl Hayashida from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Feb 9 17:46:41 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA091867843; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:44:03 -0800 Subject: RE: Unsubscribing Mike, Be sure you are sending your request to the proper address (see below). Also use capitals and lower case as shown. It may make the difference. Hope this helps.Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu..................to signoff from the list, email to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu with the following request: signoff RODMAKERSorunsubscribe RODMAKERS from penr0295@uidaho.edu Mon Feb 9 17:51:13 1998 doing-bs Subject: Re: Planes Because I have fairly large hands I find that the Record 9 1/2 isconsiderably more uncomfortable for me to use for extended periodsbecause of its shorter length. I do find that it is easier to make fineblade depth adjustments with the Record however, since the adjustmentmechanism is more sensitive than I have found my Stanley's to be. As far as the size issue is concerned, it seems that it is morecomfortable to hold a block plane if it is long enough to fit into yourhand so that your index finger is fully extended while planing. My handsare too big to do this with the Record. I guess I am just saying thathand size might be a consideration in determining which one you want toget. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Mon Feb 9 19:19:12 1998 mailfep3-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Quads and paying dues. type="54455854"; While I don't build any quads, the spirit of John Zimny's response waswell understood. Like some of you, I get a fair number of requests forvarious information about building, restorations and price estimatesetc. etc. ... mostly, through my web site. As time permits, I honestlytry to give these folks an answer that will make sense to them,realizing that everyone doesn't have the staying power or interest levelto actually follow-through. But still, I'm constantly amazed at how manypeople never even bother to drop a quick e-mail 'thank-you' after I'veput forth fair effort to give them some intelligent guidance. Go figure?Fortunately, there are many others that I'm happy to help. Joe LovertiLoverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 9 19:47:21 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes In a message dated 98-02-09 18:13:17 EST, you write: Like I said, Brian, you'll play hell ;-) But, seriously, I was thinking in terms of a guy with only a wood lathetryingto rig it to machine metals. Also, when I posted upon this subject before, I mentioned Timken bearings.That's geezerspeak for tapered bearings, much as many of us still say"Prestone" when we really mean "antifreeze". And that was directed mainly to those who plan to spend large amounts ofpotatoes on new-fangled gizmos I'm not familiar with. Economy of wordsbegetting waste of paragraphs. Davy from OsageCane@aol.com Mon Feb 9 20:02:32 1998 Subject: iron straightening I've just completed my first binding job. My binder belt did some majorslipping and introduced a very good twist in both tips and a small one in the buttsection.I've been using a heat gun working on the twists but just can'nt find therod straight again. I have read somewhere about using an iron to straighten arod blank, could someone please explain this procedure. thanks Dave Keller from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 9 20:07:06 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing Dear Listers Just a little cautionary note concerning wax. I'm not going to take sides on "to wax or not to wax", but be careful to usean "organic" type of wax. Silicone really will mess you up. It willcontaminate tools, materials and instruments; it will migrate from one totheother and inhibit many types of glues and finishes from adhering well. Check labels carefully and don't let it in your shop. Davy from harsha@aros.net Mon Feb 9 20:38:01 1998 19:37:23 Subject: Re: Philosophy Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Many memories fade with the years, but I still vividly recall the timesback in the sixties when I as a beginner was stonewalled at every turn inmyefforts to get rod building help. Then along came Garrison at lastrevealingall his secrets, and most of all, the open-ness of builders on this list,and TPF. It was to me a revelation. But it seems that there are still twoschools of thought, and rightly so, when earning a living is involved. Iguess we should all be conscious of these facts of life. Bill Bill and All, Bill, I agree with your philosophy. I am myself now in the positionyou were in so many years ago. I fell in love with bamboo rods a fewyears ago and decided to see if I could handle building one. I boughtWaynes book and read and reread it. I then built some forms and a rod.It was at times very frustrating, and without the knowledge gleaned from that book would have been impossible. I will also say that Wayne,as busy as he is, was gratious enough to accept some calls from me andgive me answers to what I am sure many of you would consider very basicquestions.I have also been given advice and help from others on the list, notablyReed Curry and Richard Tyree. I am very grateful for all the assistanceI have received.Your point is well taken that there are many different views expressedon the list, and this is as it should be. A person's knowledge is hisor hers to do wish as they may. None of us has the right to questionanother's motives or actions unless they are hurtful of others.I do, however, have a problem with personal attacks on the list. To methis list is a place for people who love bamboo rods and the making ofbamboo rod s to get together and share experiences and knowledge andeven have a little fun, i.e.( the woman from New Zealand who wanted offthis ##$%^(@& list.)My hope is that if differences in feeling and opinion must be addressed,that they be adressed off-list.I am sure that some, if not many, of you reading this will not agreewith me. I invite comment and constructive criticism. I do hope,however, that if anyone wants to "tell this upstart little jerk off"that they do it off-list. My e-mail address is (harsha@aros.net).This is not being written to offend anyone and is just my opinion. Wishing all of you the best of luck in your rodmaking endeavors and Ihope that all of you get the same feeling of joy as I do when I pull myrod from it's case, smell the tung oil and ask myself "Did I really dothis?" Thank you for allowing me to ramble on like this. Mike Harsha from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Feb 9 20:51:01 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Dave,If you can only buy one lathe, Buy the metal lathe. Turning metalcomponentsin a lathe isn't that hard and you can turn your wood in the same lathe. Ifyou buy the wood lathe,I gurantee you will kick your self later for not buying themetallathe. Dave LeClair from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 9 20:55:07 1998 Subject: Re: iron straightening In a message dated 2/9/98 6:37:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,OsageCane@AOL.COMwrites: I have read somewhere about using an iron to straighten a rod blank, could someone please explain this procedure. It was in The Planing Form about a year and a half ago. Basicallyyou set your planing form so that about an eighth of an inch of theblank protrudes above the surface, and you use a clothes iron to heat and straighten the blank. I tried it once, and it took out theshort kinks, but didn't take out the long sweeping crookedness.I think if you take the time to practice, it will probably work fairlywell. Darryl Hayashida from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 9 21:02:55 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Dave,i found three places here in town who deal in old so. Bend lathes anyonebetter to get than others.Bret from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 9 21:03:27 1998 Subject: Re: No letters from List Carsten, I don't have a clue as to your problem-I barely know how to turn this#@%^*& thing on.Hank. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 9 21:13:07 1998 Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:12:30 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: plane waxing On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Dear Listers Just a little cautionary note concerning wax. I'm not going to take sides on "to wax or not to wax", but be careful tousean "organic" type of wax. Silicone really will mess you up. It willcontaminate tools, materials and instruments; it will migrate from oneto theother and inhibit many types of glues and finishes from adhering well. Check labels carefully and don't let it in your shop. Davy That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing or dusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have silicon in the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Feb 9 21:23:35 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Bret,I have a nine inch, tool room lathe ( South Bend ) here in myshop. There hasn't been much I couldn't do in this lathe. ( Turn down riflebarrels, make reel seat components, make wooden bowling pins, etc. I wouldn'ggo any smaller than a six inch. A nine or ten inch is good for what you wantto do. Just make sure you can change speeds with the levers, you don't want to have to change the gears every time you want to change speeds. Dave LeClair from DRinker370@aol.com Mon Feb 9 22:09:23 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Thanks for the advice on lathes . I think a metal lathe is the best choice.My other would be what would be a minimum size for spindle hole toplace arod through since the size varies somewhat on each lathe I have looked at.Also, why would I need a larger bed size that 10 to 15 inches. David from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 9 22:32:33 1998 Subject: question I received this from Ian a while ago as you will note and forgot tofollow up, so for those of you interested... Jerry Subject:Resources For AnglersDate:Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:15:35 +0500From:"Ian H. Scott" Organization:PairoWoodies Publishing Jerry Foster Hi Jerry: Not sure if you will remember me or not, I used to participate onoccasion in the rodmakers list, and operated Wishbone Custom Rods inGrand Valley, Ontario. Because of a family breakup, I was forced to move and end my rodbuilding activities due to lack of space..these things happen. Since then, having to find some extra cash to help pay for the wickedchild support payments, I have gotten involved in some web designstuff. A small hobby site I have been working on, mainly as a sourceof links for anglers is Resources For Anglers at:http://absolute-sway.com/rfa/ We are trying to drum up some sponsorship for the site, both to helpcontinue it and to put gas in the car, hehe. We are planning on somemonthly features, and this month we are going to do a sort of 'subsite' on cane rod building. I will be doing a basic outline of someof the interesting aspects of cane rod crafting, and including linksto other sites for more information. I am hoping that perhaps theremay be some out there who might want to do some banner advertising totake advantage of the traffic we will get. I will be promoting thesite heavily, as a way to introduce those not familiar with cane rodsto the art and topic. I have problems submitting posts to the list now because of my newISP, and as well, I am not so sure that this would be an appropriatetopic for it anyhow. Perhaps you would have some ideas, and maybeknow of some that would like to take advantage of an opportunity toincrease traffic to their own site. Our rates are going to be veryinexpensive, and it would be a good way to promote a site. If you wantto view our 'feature', under construction at the moment, it is at:http://absolute-sway.com/rfa/Feb98/ Any comments would be great, and let me know of any links you think weshould have there, as well as general links on thehttp://absolute- sway.com/rfa/ site as well. Sign the guest book ifyou want too! Thanks for allowing me to take up your time, and hope to hear fromyou. Warm Regards,Ian ScottIan H. Scott32 Brinloor Blvd.,Scarborough, OntarioM1M 1L2http://www.absolute- sway.com/pairowoodieshttp://www.absolute-sway.com/rfa "It is in men as in soils, where sometimes thereis a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."Jonathan Swift IAW from flyfisher@brinet.com Mon Feb 9 22:47:35 1998 23:52:44-0500 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Bret,I have a nine inch, tool room lathe ( South Bend ) here in myshop. There hasn't been much I couldn't do in this lathe. ( Turn down riflebarrels, make reel seat components, make wooden bowling pins, etc. I wouldn'ggo any smaller than a six inch. A nine or ten inch is good for what youwantto do. Is that 9" swing over the bed, swing over the cross slide or 9" long? Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Feb 9 23:17:36 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: plane waxing That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing ordusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have siliconin the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony All, The above may sound a bit far fetched, but it took me a year and a half tofigure out what happened to my once perfect flex-coat wraps on plasticrods - my fingers touched my shirt - just an innocent habit -%$#^, Ted G. from penr0295@uidaho.edu Tue Feb 10 00:34:26 1998 doing-bs Subject: Silver Creek Benefit I have set up a page with some information regarding The NatureConservancy of Idaho's 1998 Silver Creek Benefit, which occurs on Feb. 14th in Sun Valley, Idaho. For this year's benefit poster the NatureConservancy of Idaho chose my friend Jim Palmersheim's pastel image ofSilver Creek. If you are interested in this sort of thing both Jim and Iwould appreciate it if you stopped in to take a look. I understand thatthese posters are being sold through the Nature Conservancy of Idaho, withall proceeds going toward their funding: http://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/silvercrk.htm Thomas PenroseBend, OR from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Feb 10 02:02:02 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA17898 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:43:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Baby, I am back With this quotation from a exeedingly eloquent actor by the name ofArnoldSchwarzenegger (can You beleive it?)I wish to celebrate my return to thereal world - I am getting letters from all You fellows around the worldagain. My hands have stopped shaking, and I do take normal nutrition onceagain. Thanks to everybody on and of the list, answering to my calls ofdistress. Must say, though, that I am rather dissapointed in Bill for notanswering. (No, not that Bill - the other one). Again thanks for moral support and guidance of how to reenter the worldofbamboo Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Feb 10 02:02:03 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA17904 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:43:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" This sunday I had the experience of trying out a Paul Young "ThePerfection" (or was it "The Perfectionist?). Anyway, it was a 7'6" #4beauty, tempered into colours between dark brown and black. The luckyownercould, easely, lay out a full DT 4 F line each and every time. I couldalmost not believe my own eyes. The guy also had a copy of it, rings notyet put on. According to the owner, this was a close copy of the Youngmodel, except for two things: It was 2 inches longer, and hollowbuilt. Thefunny thing is, the copy felt more steely. Question 1: Does hollowbuilding means stiffening the rod? According tothemathematical genius of my family, hollowbuilding means a softer rod. Myexperience was the opposite. Question 2: Does anybody have the taper for the Young rod? Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Tue Feb 10 02:23:55 1998 KAA06055 (EET) Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: Re: Planes I hate to break ranks, in terms of personal preference, but the Recordis a much better tool. castings are better and the stock blade, whilenot a Hock, is pretty good. It also feels a little lighter in hand. Jerry Thanks for the input about planes. I called to my local tool supplier, and he was very helpful and found out that it is possible to order one stanley 9.5 plane, but the record importer had not been willing to deliver only one plane. Sometimes I really envy you guys living behind the big water, it seems to be hard to find things I want from Finland. Well, I think stanley`s plane will do fine. I have to pay 430 FIM for it ( it is something like 80 $). Cheers,Seppo PS. Things are not that bad at all. After all, we allready have one gold medal from Nagano, and maybe more is coming. Sorry, Carsten, maybeBjorn Daehlie will do better next time ;-) from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Feb 10 02:56:01 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA19567 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:47:35 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Planes ----------From: Karkkainen Seppo Cheers,Seppo PS. Things are not that bad at all. After all, we allready have one gold medal from Nagano, and maybe more is coming. Sorry, Carsten, maybeBjorn Daehlie will do better next time ;-) Since when is icefishing an Olympic discipline .-) regards Carsten from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 10 06:12:36 1998 Subject: planes Seppo;Record and Stanley are both made in the U.K., surely thier is a tool supplyhouse in Finland that can get them for you. If not, there used to beseveral list members in the U.K., if they are not currently on the listthen peruse the archives for names and e-mail addresses, if nothing elseitmakes very interesting reading. Just a thought.John Channer from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Tue Feb 10 08:34:41 1998 QAA24434 (EET) Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: RE: planes Seppo;Record and Stanley are both made in the U.K., surely thier is a tool supplyhouse in Finland that can get them for you. If not, there used to beseveral list members in the U.K., if they are not currently on the listthen peruse the archives for names and e-mail addresses, if nothing else itmakes very interesting reading. Just a thought.John Channer Well, I think I will settle for stanley`s plane. Some of list members seem to think that stanley`s plane blades are "no good" (I mean the one delivered with the plane). I got the impression that these Hock-blades are fully compatible with stanley`s and record`s planes. Did I get it right?? Arethey expensive out there? It may seem that my questions are a bit naive, but I trust your good will toward to novice rodbuilder to be. Cheers,Seppo from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 10 08:39:36 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA13745 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:39:32 -0500 Subject: Re: plane waxing Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:21 PMSubject: Re: plane waxing That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing ordusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have siliconin the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony All, The above may sound a bit far fetched, but it took me a year and a half tofigure out what happened to my once perfect flex-coat wraps on plasticrods - my fingers touched my shirt - just an innocent habit -%$#^, Ted G. Ted you might want to look for another problem, the method I use to wrappoles uses a old T-shirt to apply preasure to the thread(that has beenwashed with fabric softener). Also have been wiping down stain onwoodworking for 20 years with them as many other shops have also.Dave Price (silicone is very nastie and world have made spots in thefinish) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 10 09:09:28 1998 Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:08:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE: planes On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Karkkainen Seppo NTC/BS-OU wrote: Seppo;Record and Stanley are both made in the U.K., surely thier is a tool supplyhouse in Finland that can get them for you. If not, there used to beseveral list members in the U.K., if they are not currently on the listthen peruse the archives for names and e-mail addresses, if nothingelse itmakes very interesting reading. Just a thought.John Channer Well, I think I will settle for stanley`s plane. Some of list membersseem to think that stanley`s plane blades are "no good" (I mean the onedelivered with the plane). I got the impression that these Hock-blades are fully compatible with stanley`s and record`s planes. Did I get it right?? Arethey expensive out there? It may seem that my questions are a bit naive, but I trust your good will toward to novice rodbuilder to be. Cheers,Seppo You'll need to specify the brand and model when ordering the Hock iron. In the case of the 60 1/2 there is a difference between the US and UK model. I have recently bought a 9 1/2 Record and haven't bought a Hock *yet* and must say I agree with those on the list that the Record iron is superior to the Stanley but it's not as good as the Hock. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Feb 10 10:30:26 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing another problem, the method I use to wrappoles uses a old T-shirt to apply preasure to the thread(that has beenwashed with fabric softener). Also have been wiping down stain onwoodworking for 20 years with them as many other shops have also.Dave Price (silicone is very nastie and world have made spots in thefinish) David, The silicone seemed to leave birds eye voids (often attributed toinadequateepoxy mixing - I mix it until I'm half blind) and poor adheshion to plasticblank at edges of wraps. I went through the usual foolishness of gettingnew mixing cups, talking to plastic blank manufacturer, and getting newstuff from flex coat company who also sent me some "special mystery"chemicals to help - didn't. Just swimming in silicone from the close dryerwas the only problem/source. Ted from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 10 10:34:44 1998 Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" In a message dated 2/10/98 12:05:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk writes: Question 1: Does hollowbuilding means stiffening the rod? According tothemathematical genius of my family, hollowbuilding means a softer rod.Myexperience was the opposite. I made a few hollow rods about two years ago. The difference isn'thardly noticeable for rods less than 8 ft. long, but, hollowing a roddoes make a rod flex more with the same weight, if that's what youmean by softer. The difference is in your perception of what's happening when you are casting it. With less weight as you areswinging it back and forth in a cast it seems as if the rod werestiffer. I would look at hollowing a rod longer than 8 ft., but it'snot worth the trouble on rods shorter than that. Darryl Hayashida from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 10 10:42:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Young "The Perfection" Carsten,My experience with hollow built rods is the same as yours-they seem tobestiffer or quicker, mathematical genii notwithstanding. Now some wouldsaythat because it's lighter it seems stiffer-my feeling is if it quacks like aduck,walks like a duck , flies like duck it probably is a duck (this ought tostir things up a bit.)Regards,Hank. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 10 10:43:09 1998 Subject: Re: Planes/Finland RO>Thanks for the input about planes. I called to my local tool supplier,andRO>he was very helpful and found out that it is possible to order onestanleyRO>9.5 plane, but the record importer had not been willing to deliver onlyoneRO>plane. Sometimes I really envy you guys living behind the big water, itRO>seems to be hard to find things I want from Finland. Well, I thinkstanley`sRO>plane will do fine. I have to pay 430 FIM for it ( it is something like 80RO>$). RO>Cheers,RO>Seppo RO>PS. Things are not that bad at all. After all, we allready have one goldRO>medal from Nagano, and maybe more is coming. Sorry, Carsten, maybeBjornRO>Daehlie will do better next time ;-) Seppo, I would think you could order planes and such from US suppliers - don'tknow what your duty and shipping costs would be. Don Burns PS - This past weekend, a cable TV show "Fly Fishing the World"(ESPNchannel) was filmed in Finland - host was fishing for Alantic Salmonandsome huge brown trout. Part 2 this coming weekend. Looks like you've got some great fishing over on your side of the bigpond. from thramer@presys.com Tue Feb 10 10:58:38 1998 0000 Subject: Re: plane waxing David Price wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:21 PMSubject: Re: plane waxing That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing ordusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have siliconin the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony All, The above may sound a bit far fetched, but it took me a year and a halftofigure out what happened to my once perfect flex-coat wraps onplasticrods - my fingers touched my shirt - just an innocent habit -%$#^, Ted G. Ted you might want to look for another problem, the method I use towrappoles uses a old T-shirt to apply preasure to the thread(that has beenwashed with fabric softener). Also have been wiping down stain onwoodworking for 20 years with them as many other shops have also.Dave Price (silicone is very nastie and world have made spots in thefinish) To add another chapter to my by now well known aversion to plane waxing,the solution to the problem of silicone contamination was faced by autobody workers many years ago. They simply contaminate their paint withsilicone. A product with the generic term "fish eye remover" is added in smallquantities to the batch of paint. It is available at suppliers ofprofessional auto paint supplies and is very inexpensive.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Feb 10 11:08:05 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA09070 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:39:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: planes Seppo Try The Japan Woodworker, I do not have their URL present. They have anonline catalogue, and an ordinary catalogue can be ordered free. They stockHock blades, at around USD 20 I seem to remember. Have a lot ofinterestingtools as well. Best regards Carsten from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Tue Feb 10 12:10:31 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 146 0600 Subject: scraper plane Has anyone seen, ordered, or used the very small scraper plane that isabout 3/4" x 2 3/4" in size with a 1/2" blade from the Japan Woodworkercatalog ? It says they are English made with a high carbon blade. Theylist at about $25. I wondered if this might work for finalplaning(scraping) or would they be just too narrow? Thanks... Jim Kubichek from CALucker@aol.com Tue Feb 10 12:35:44 1998 Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection"ist I always get a chuckle when I hear someone say that they have "the PaulYoungPerfectionist Taper." There is no such thing. I have owned seven different Perfectionists over the years, and they werealldifferent. The 1950's Perfectionists I owned tended to have lighter tips.The late 1960's Perfectionists I call Summer's Perfectionists hadstrongertips and are better rods. I also have qiote an extensive collection of Paul Young Catalogs. ThePerfectionist at one time even came with a 13 ferrule, rather than themostcommon 14 Super Z. It also came with a step down ferrule and one ofthoseFeatherweight Aluminum ferrules made in California way back when. You also have to remember that you measure a rod, you are measuring theinaccuracies that are bound into a rod during the gluing process. I amtryingto say that not all binding machines leave the rod a perfect hex. Iremembercalling Bob Summers back in '82 to tell him that I discovered the "secret"behing the elusive Paul Young Perfectionist. I told Summers that PHY'ssecretwas to make the blank oblong -- not a perfect hex! Summer's laughed in akindway and set me straight. A quick note about the "Famed" Princess taper. You can make a Princessout ofa Perfectionist if you strengthen the butt and add a slight swell ratherthanthe Perfectionist/Midge hinge. But don't bother. If the Princess was suchagreat rod, why did PHY stop at making a half dozen? from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 10 12:36:19 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id NAA26600 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:36:15 -0500 Subject: Re: plane waxing A.J.Thramer wrote: David Price wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:21 PMSubject: Re: plane waxing That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing ordusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have siliconin the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony All, The above may sound a bit far fetched, but it took me a year and ahalf tofigure out what happened to my once perfect flex-coat wraps onplasticrods - my fingers touched my shirt - just an innocent habit -%$#^, Ted G. Ted you might want to look for another problem, the method I use towrappoles uses a old T-shirt to apply preasure to the thread(that has beenwashed with fabric softener). Also have been wiping down stain onwoodworking for 20 years with them as many other shops have also.Dave Price (silicone is very nastie and world have made spots in thefinish) To add another chapter to my by now well known aversion to planewaxing,the solution to the problem of silicone contamination was faced by autobody workers many years ago. They simply contaminate their paint withsilicone.A product with the generic term "fish eye remover" is added in smallquantities to the batch of paint. It is available at suppliers ofprofessional auto paint supplies and is very inexpensive.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com Yes fisheye remover is silicone and is added directly to the paint, sameproducts that cabinetmakers use for fisheye problems. But once you getany of it in your shop you can never stop using it. If the paint is'ntsaturated with it and risidual amounts are flying around the sprayroomyou will get fisheye!!. If one has a problem with coating rod blankswith epoxy and having it come off it's more likely to be from oil onones hands then the use of old T-Shirts!!Dave Price (always wipdown a rod with alcohol before epoxy) from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Feb 10 12:52:26 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id MAA05139 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id MAA26046 for ; Tue, 10 Feb1998 Subject: Re: scraper plane I and at least one other person on this list have this littlescraper plane. I think it works OK, but I don't have a Lie-Nielsento compare it with :( I didn't think the blade was that great, so I made a replacement bycutting a strip from a surplus Hock blade. YMMV. Now it whisks offa lacy little shaving. I didn't have any trouble because of the narrow width. Prices vary quite a lot on this plane. I paid $35 from Garrett-Wadewhen it first came out, and now I've seen it for $25 in the Jesada catalog.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: Has anyone seen, ordered, or used the very small scraper plane that isabout 3/4" x 2 3/4" in size with a 1/2" blade from the Japan Woodworkercatalog ? It says they are English made with a high carbon blade. Theylist at about $25. I wondered if this might work for finalplaning(scraping) or would they be just too narrow? Thanks... Jim Kubichek from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Feb 10 12:52:33 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: plane waxing David, Ted, Tony, A. J., All,One of the problems for the automotive companies was anti-perspirant.The Aluminum Hydroxide flakes off and falls down the shirt sleeves tocontaminate the car bodies during final wipe down prior to paintapplication. One companies solution, provide deodorant notanti- perspirant for the employees in this department. (Union problems ifthey didn't). This cured the problem. Also, you will notice in any industrial environment that if they do anypainting, the use of silicones will be highly controlled.Dick Fuhrman from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 10 13:49:13 1998 Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" In a message dated 98-02-10 11:43:57 EST, you write: Hank - like you, I have built hollow bamboo rods. Unlike you, I think I'llduck the issue :>)Cheers,RTyree from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 10 13:49:54 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA15674 for Subject: Re: scraper plane At 12:52 PM 2/10/98 -0600, you wrote:I and at least one other person on this list have this littlescraper plane. I think it works OK, but I don't have a Lie-Nielsento compare it with :( I didn't think the blade was that great, so I made a replacement bycutting a strip from a surplus Hock blade. YMMV. Now it whisks offa lacy little shaving. I didn't have any trouble because of the narrow width. Prices vary quite a lot on this plane. I paid $35 from Garrett-Wadewhen it first came out, and now I've seen it for $25 in the Jesada catalog.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank,I've been on this server for only a short time but I've been fooling withwoodworking and rodbuilding for about 25 years. I've never heard of theJesada Catalog ( and I must get over 50 of them in the mail). Where aretheyand how can I get them to send me a copy. You've already piqued myinterestwith their below-Garrett-Wade prices.ThanksArt Port from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 10 13:58:34 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing In a message dated 2/10/98 8:37:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,tedgodfreys@erols.com writes: The silicone seemed to leave birds eye voids (often attributed toinadequateepoxy mixing - I mix it until I'm half blind) and poor adheshion toplasticblank at edges of wraps. I went through the usual foolishness of gettingnew mixing cups, talking to plastic blank manufacturer, and getting newstuff from flex coat company who also sent me some "special mystery"chemicals to help - didn't. Just swimming in silicone from the closedryerwas the only problem/source. My exposure to silicone was from cleaning my fly line and thenfinishing my rod. Seems like the fly line dressing was almostpure silicone oil. But, it doesn't seem too hard to get rid of. Ijust washed my hands and wiped everything off with alcoholor acetone, depending on if it was plastic or not. Now that Iknow what to avoid just before I start finishing a rod, I don'thave the problem any more. Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 10 14:03:01 1998 0700 Subject: Ni-silver bluing To all, Taking my first pass @ bluing ni-si parts. The questions are: - what do you use to coat and protect the bluing - How many coats do you use - how do you prevent runs in the coating Thanx, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 10 14:03:04 1998 0700 Subject: Was: plane waxing - Now: sole shaping To all, Seems like there are at least 2 solutions to making a plane sole skid alittle better: - Waxing - got it's proponents and detractors - Shaping the plane sole - I "dish in" the soles on my planes leaving onlythe leading edge, the edge directly ahead and behind the blade and the tailedge contacting the work. The sole is sanded down to relieve about 0.005"where contact is not needed. Cuts the plane friction a lot. Used it foryears - started when I got tired from leveling a Stanley 9 1/2. It hadmanufactured "dishes". Next plane was a Record 9 1/2 that I leveledcompletely. The Record was a bitch to push - when the sole was "dishedout"things got a whole lot better.Note: the non- dished parts are about 3/8>3/4" wide depending on location.Ahead of the blade, they are narrower. Give it a shot. Don from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Feb 10 15:15:10 1998 0500 Subject: Silica in bamboo Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is this harmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be worn when planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement and similar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Feb 10 15:24:16 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA157835691; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:21:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Nickle Silver Blueing After oxidizing I mix about two parts laquer and 1 part laquer thinner. I hold the ferrule or reelseat parts over the mixture and use a brush to put the laquer on in force and allow it to run off back into the mixing cup. If I get any air bubbles I keep applying it until it runs off with a clear coat. It dries fast and protects the ferrules from my oily hands etc. while wrapping. I can't speak for longevity yet, but it appears to be a tough coat that dries hard and thin (no runs, drips, or errors). Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 10 16:13:43 1998 Subject: Re: Ni-silver bluing Don;Krylon clear acrylic with U.V. blocker.Look for it in art supply stores.2light coats works nicely. GEM from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 10 16:38:51 1998 Subject: Re: scraper plane I bought one that fits that description from Garret Wade. It's theberries for final couple of thous. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 10 16:41:08 1998 Subject: Re: scraper plane Frank -I use the L-N down to the last wisps, and then switch to the littleguy. Its easier for me to handle and avoid hitting the forms. Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 10 17:36:48 1998 Subject: Hollow building A couple of years ago, I got interested in building a hollow rod,and I wanted to know just what the advantages were. I wentto the library and read many mechanical engineering books. This is what I found out. If you have a solid rod, and a hollowtube of the same outside diameter the solid rod is going tobe "stiffer" (resist sideways deflection). Where hollowing outa rod has an advantage is in being able to increase the diameterand still lessening the weight. An increase in diameter gives youtremendous gains in "stiffness". I can't remember the exactnumbers, but it was somewhere on the order of an increasein diameter of 25 percent gives you double the stiffness. In reality, though, increasing the diameter in a shorter roddoesn't increase the weight by very much, so going throughthe trouble of hollowing it out isn't worth it. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 10 17:47:10 1998 Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:46:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: planes wugate.wustl.edu idRAA12854 On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Seppo Try The Japan Woodworker, I do not have their URL present. They have anonline catalogue, and an ordinary catalogue can be ordered free. TheystockHock blades, at around USD 20 I seem to remember. Have a lot ofinterestingtools as well. Best regards Carsten If you do that, you may consider using a laminated Japaneese iron. These are laminated just like the Japanees chisels and are very good for a keen edge.They cost about the same out here as a Hock. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 10 17:48:26 1998 0700 Subject: Re: [1] Hollow building At 18:22 10/02/98 EST, you wrote: A couple of years ago, I got interested in building a hollow rod,and I wanted to know just what the advantages were. I wentto the library and read many mechanical engineering books. This is what I found out. If you have a solid rod, and a hollowtube of the same outside diameter the solid rod is going tobe "stiffer" (resist sideways deflection). Where hollowing outa rod has an advantage is in being able to increase the diameterand still lessening the weight. An increase in diameter gives youtremendous gains in "stiffness". I can't remember the exactnumbers, but it was somewhere on the order of an increasein diameter of 25 percent gives you double the stiffness. Built two 8' rods - 1 hollow - 1 not - same taper - same culm - hollowonewas softer. Don In reality, though, increasing the diameter in a shorter roddoesn't increase the weight by very much, so going throughthe trouble of hollowing it out isn't worth it. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 10 17:52:40 1998 Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:52:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Silica in bamboo On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is this harmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be worn when planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement and similar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy It's just the silica found in grass, including the stuff you mow on the weekend. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 10 18:00:00 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Philosophy To List Members,If this letter has to do with me asking JCZimny about his reluctance tohelpme with questions about quad rods I did ask him off list. He took it uponhimself to put it on list(which I found inappropriate) since I asked him offlist. My answer to his comments on list were also answered off list (astheyshould have been).I wasn't trying to learn how to build quads so I could horn in on hisbusinessI was just curious as to the complexities of building one over a hex rodandthought I might try to build one for myself. I also was thinking aboutaddingone of JC's rods to my collection as I looked at his webpage and think hisrods are awesome. I also received his brochure so I could decide whichone Iwanted and was planning on buying it at Southfield next month. I neverbuysomething as expensive as a bamboo rod unless I know something aboutthecompany or the maker and product. Heck I have asked a million questionstothe Demarests and Andy Royer about bamboo before I am going to buy anyfromthem and the same goes for forms I have asked a million questions to themakers before I purchased my forms because I only want to do it once. IfJCwas upset I guess I can only say I am sorry for that and I hope that no oneelse takes offense to mine or anybody elses questions. If it wasn't forguyslike Wayne and Garrison and Kreider we would all be out here stumblingaroundtrying to figure this out. Whenever someone asks me about how to dosomethingwhen it comes to building guns or how to tie salmon flies I am more thanpleased to help them and as a matter of fact it makes me feel real proudthatthey think enough of my work to consider me as a source of knowledgethat theycan glean something from. So JC I want to tell you ( on list ) that I amsorry that I was misunderstood as to my intentions about the QUAD ROD.Bret from thramer@presys.com Tue Feb 10 19:07:30 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Silica in bamboo andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is thisharmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be wornwhen planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement andsimilar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy I used to have a reccuring respitory problem until I started to use adust mask when sanding. No problem since.A.J.Thramer from jczimny@dol.net Tue Feb 10 21:53:43 1998 Subject: Re: Ni-silver bluing Don Andersen wrote: To all, Taking my first pass @ bluing ni-si parts. The questions are: - what do you use to coat and protect the bluing - How many coats do you use - how do you prevent runs in the coating Thanx, DonSpray with Artist's type UV resistant Acrylic Lacquer such asGrumbacher's. One coat is all that's needed. Don't worry about runs.There probably won't be any at all.John from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 10 23:40:51 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 11Feb 1998 00:41:48 +0000 Subject: Splitting.... I thought I would bring up a topic I have not seen since I began watching. Suppose you are splitting a culm (nodeless) for a 8' 5-6 wt. How wide would you split the butt sections? I botched this once and would like to get it right without ruining to many more culms...hehe. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 10 23:42:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Young "The Perfection" Richard,Nice to hear from you-very tactfull, but being bullheaded I like to stirthe pot occasionally.Hope to see you at Grayrock.Regards,Hank. from brookside.rod@juno.com Wed Feb 11 05:07:11 1998 21:05:46 EST Subject: Re: small scraper plane On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:07:56 -0600 jim_kubichek@s- hamilton.k12.ia.uswrites:Has anyone seen, ordered, or used the very small scraper plane that isabout 3/4" x 2 3/4" in size with a 1/2" bladeJim Kubichek A while back I built a small scraper plane modeled after my LN. .750wide blades made from files; body about 1.250 wide and 2.5 long fromsilicon bronze. After scraping strips most of the way to finish thelittle scraper permits much better control due to its light weight. Thesmall size fits the hand well and makes it easy to "drive". Works forme! Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Wed Feb 11 05:44:01 1998 Subject: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk FAA08966 I recently bought some red and black mixed Elephant silk from a tackleshopin Carlisle in the U.K and was very pleased with the resulting finish on mylatest rod. When I contacted the shop for further supplies I was told thatthe silk I bought was the last they had and was very old stock, I wonderdoes anyone know where I could obtain any more of this old silk, or isthere a manufacturer producing multi-coloured whipping silk today. Thank in advance Mick. Woodruff. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Feb 11 07:28:38 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Silica in bamboo I guess that makes sense...it _is_ a plant afterall...thanks for the responses...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Silica in bamboo Author: at tcpgate On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is this harmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be worn when planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement and similar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy It's just the silica found in grass, including the stuff you mow on the weekend. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 08:35:54 1998 1997)) id862565A8.004FD410 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:31:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Hollow building As it turns out, stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of thediameter of a cylinder. Thus, the tremendous gains in stiffness asdiameteris increased that Darryl speaks of. Note that in the case of a hollow rod,stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of the outer diameter minusthe fourth power of the inner diameter. Best regards,Ed Estlow SalarFly@aol.com on 02/10/98 05:22:32 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Hollow building A couple of years ago, I got interested in building a hollow rod,and I wanted to know just what the advantages were. I wentto the library and read many mechanical engineering books.This is what I found out. If you have a solid rod, and a hollowtube of the same outside diameter the solid rod is going tobe "stiffer" (resist sideways deflection). Where hollowing outa rod has an advantage is in being able to increase the diameterand still lessening the weight. An increase in diameter gives youtremendous gains in "stiffness". I can't remember the exactnumbers, but it was somewhere on the order of an increasein diameter of 25 percent gives you double the stiffness.In reality, though, increasing the diameter in a shorter roddoesn't increase the weight by very much, so going throughthe trouble of hollowing it out isn't worth it.Darryl Hayashida from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Feb 11 08:46:10 1998 Subject: Re: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk Mick;Check with Belvoirdale.He had a stock of old elephant silk.He's listed onthe rodmakers under parts and supplies. George from harry37@epix.net Wed Feb 11 08:47:23 1998 JAA04500 Subject: Re: Silica in bamboo A.J.Thramer wrote: andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is thisharmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be wornwhen planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement andsimilar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy I used to have a reccuring respitory problem until I started to use adust mask when sanding. No problem since.A.J.Thramer Could just be a bit of an allergy--I sneeze when I sand pine, but notwith cherry Greg Kuntz from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Wed Feb 11 08:48:54 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Wed, 11 Feb 98 09:47:41 EST Subject: Re: Philosophy You're a gentleman Bret. Well said. When it comes right down to it, Iactually agree with JCZ's point, just a bit too heavy handed. As a firsttime rod builder, I'm glad for the help from this list and the two bks--oldand new testament, but don't tell me all. You can't of course. I'm buzy making every possible mistake imaginable, hopefully I won't makethem quite as easily next time. All of this is packaged in equal measuresof surprise and frustration and I hardly know where one begins and theother ends, and maybe that's not so important to know. Last night I was planning a butt strip. The angle was off, one side longerthan the other. Try as I might, it kept getting worse even as a cocked theplane off to one side to enforce a correction. I was inches away fromtrashing the strip into a million shattering pieces. All my selfmonitoring tricks were falling away (like "take your time" "wait for thesolution" "trust in the cane force" etc.). I turned over the plane. Theblade was cockeyed. Never even occured to me to look earlier and itseemedalmost accidental to discover this. I finished the strip. It's the mostbeautiful of all. So don't tell me all. I want to be up there in thefront of the bus, taking all those bugs in the windshield and wiping theslate clean on my own terms. --RM, on the edge of the bus. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 08:54:19 1998 1997)) id862565A8.00518309 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:50:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Philosophy Eloquently stated, Bret. Best regards,-Ed Estlow Grhghlndr@aol.com on 02/10/98 05:47:04 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Philosophy To List Members,If this letter has to do with me asking JCZimny about his reluctance tohelpme with questions about quad rods I did ask him off list. He took it uponhimself to put it on list(which I found inappropriate) since I asked himofflist. My answer to his comments on list were also answered off list (astheyshould have been).I wasn't trying to learn how to build quads so I could horn in on hisbusinessI was just curious as to the complexities of building one over a hex rodandthought I might try to build one for myself. I also was thinking aboutaddingone of JC's rods to my collection as I looked at his webpage and think hisrods are awesome. I also received his brochure so I could decide whichoneIwanted and was planning on buying it at Southfield next month. I neverbuysomething as expensive as a bamboo rod unless I know something aboutthecompany or the maker and product. Heck I have asked a million questionstothe Demarests and Andy Royer about bamboo before I am going to buy anyfromthem and the same goes for forms I have asked a million questions to themakers before I purchased my forms because I only want to do it once. IfJCwas upset I guess I can only say I am sorry for that and I hope that no oneelse takes offense to mine or anybody elses questions. If it wasn't forguyslike Wayne and Garrison and Kreider we would all be out here stumblingaroundtrying to figure this out. Whenever someone asks me about how to dosomethingwhen it comes to building guns or how to tie salmon flies I am more thanpleased to help them and as a matter of fact it makes me feel real proudthatthey think enough of my work to consider me as a source of knowledgethattheycan glean something from. So JC I want to tell you ( on list ) that I amsorry that I was misunderstood as to my intentions about the QUAD ROD.Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 11 09:14:38 1998 Subject: RE:Elephant Rod Whipping Silk RO>I recently bought some red and black mixed Elephant silk from a tackleshopRO>in Carlisle in the U.K and was very pleased with the resulting finish onmyRO>latest rod. When I contacted the shop for further supplies I was toldthatRO>the silk I bought was the last they had and was very old stock, IwonderRO>does anyone know where I could obtain any more of this old silk, or isRO>there a manufacturer producing multi-coloured whipping silk today. RO>Thank in advance Mick. Woodruff. Mike, Belvoirdale purchased all the remaining Elephant thread stock and isselling it. Their url (direct to the thread page) is:http://www.belvoirdale.com/elephant.html Don Burns from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 11 09:28:21 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA03740 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id JAA23320 for ; Wed, 11 Feb1998 Subject: Re: scraper plane Jesada is a relatively new maker of router bits and some other cuttingtools. Their products have received good reviews. Their cataloghas mostly their stuff and a few other things. You can reach thenonline at www.jesada.com or at 800-531-5559.--Frank On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Art Port wrote: Frank,I've been on this server for only a short time but I've been fooling withwoodworking and rodbuilding for about 25 years. I've never heard of theJesada Catalog ( and I must get over 50 of them in the mail). Where aretheyand how can I get them to send me a copy. You've already piqued myinterestwith their below-Garrett-Wade prices.ThanksArt Port from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Feb 11 09:57:44 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Half-radius router bits Can anyone tell me, without lots of trouble, what size half radius orfingernail bit to use in forming the reel seat fillers? I know I couldgo look it up, but the books are at home, and the catalogs are here, andI'm just plain impatient! Also, any suggestions on which brand to buy?I see lots of them in different woodworking catalogs. Thanks, and sorry to be so lazy!Harry Boyd from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 11 11:33:26 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 6:43:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,eestlow@srminc.com writes: As it turns out, stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of thediameter of a cylinder. Thus, the tremendous gains in stiffness asdiameteris increased that Darryl speaks of. Note that in the case of a hollow rod,stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of the outer diameterminusthe fourth power of the inner diameter. Thank you Ed! I always seem to remember the concept, but forgetthe details. Thanks to you I will remember stress curves are inounces per square inch, and stiffness is proportional to the 4thpower of diameter. Darryl Hayashida from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Feb 11 12:00:53 1998 +0100 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA27660 for; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:49:12 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" ----------Sir D wrote I made a few hollow rods about two years ago. The difference isn'thardly noticeable for rods less than 8 ft. long, but, hollowing a roddoes make a rod flex more with the same weight, if that's what youmean by softer. The difference is in your perception of what's happening when you are casting it. With less weight as you areswinging it back and forth in a cast it seems as if the rod werestiffer. I would look at hollowing a rod longer than 8 ft., but it'snot worth the trouble on rods shorter than that. Darryl Hayashida Sir D Imagine removing lets say 25% of the weight of the rod. We agree that itwill feel more steely, as less weight accelerated and decellerated meansless demand of power, as inflicted by the arm casting the rod. OK, so therod is actually softer, but this is a static phenomena. Less weight meansfaster accelleration and decelleration for the same amount of power.We'retalking replacing cane with flyline, so You might say that to some degreewe have the line thrown "for free". Discussing things like this is stretching my vocabulary to the limit (andbeyond) but I hope to have made my point, which BTW is purelyspeculative. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from thramer@presys.com Wed Feb 11 12:01:52 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk MICK WOODRUFF wrote: I recently bought some red and black mixed Elephant silk from a tackleshopin Carlisle in the U.K and was very pleased with the resulting finish onmylatest rod. When I contacted the shop for further supplies I was told thatthe silk I bought was the last they had and was very old stock, I wonderdoes anyone know where I could obtain any more of this old silk, or isthere a manufacturer producing multi-coloured whipping silk today. Thank in advance Mick. Woodruff.Belvoirdale still has some of the red/black variegated. They have a webpage but I don't know the address.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Wed Feb 11 12:02:00 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Splitting.... Jon Lintvet wrote: I thought I would bring up a topic I have not seen since I beganwatching. Suppose you are splitting a culm (nodeless) for a 8' 5-6wt. How wide would you split the butt sections? I botched this onceand would like to get it right without ruining to many moreculms...hehe. Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781The allowance you add will vary with the experience of the splitter.Safe would be .100". With practice you can split it .040" overA.J.Thramer from rennygr@ibm.net Wed Feb 11 12:12:21 1998 out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA64186 for; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:12:18 GMT Subject: Re: Hollow building A couple of hopefully, not too naive questions: Isn't the material being removed the pith, which would be considerablylessdensethan the exterior bamboo? If so, wouldn't stiffness be impacted to alesserdegree than with a higher density throughout? Secondly, doesn't the excess glue tend to fill the removed interior space? Iwould surmise that any extruded glue might tend to minimize any weightsavingsgains. What impact might any interior glue have on stiffness & could thispartially explain the discrepancy some folks noted between perceivedstiffness(casting) & theoretical stiffness (equation)? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/11/98 6:43:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,eestlow@srminc.com writes: As it turns out, stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of thediameter of a cylinder. Thus, the tremendous gains in stiffness asdiameteris increased that Darryl speaks of. Note that in the case of a hollowrod,stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of the outer diameterminusthe fourth power of the inner diameter. Thank you Ed! I always seem to remember the concept, but forgetthe details. Thanks to you I will remember stress curves are inounces per square inch, and stiffness is proportional to the 4thpower of diameter. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Feb 11 12:33:16 1998 Subject: Re: Philosophy In a message dated 98-02-11 09:55:05 EST, Robert Milardo writes: This may be common knowledge, but it's relatively easy to set up a planeironaccurately. If you have a magnetic base on your dial indicator, just get a flat point( from the same source as your 60-degree point) and keep adjusting untilthecuting edge is level. This will give you the cutting depth at the sametime. Since I realize that many rodmakers will have cut a relief groove or gluedbrass shims to the soles of their planes, a simple depth mic will handlethis(since the whole idea is to have the shims slightly proud of the cuttingedge. This is probably covered in the literature, so forgive me if I'm going over aploughed field, but it takes a lifetime to develop the kind of touch whichmakes the above processes unnecessary and many of us have been applyingourfingertips to different ends. You know what I mean. Davy from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 12:41:47 1998 1997)) id862565A8.00665388 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:37:40 -0600 Subject: Hollow-build Dynamics Not to step on Darryl's toes in responding to this, but interestingspeculation, Carsten. I'm not sure I agree with your comment that thesoftness is a static phenomenon, though. The force that loads (bends) a rodis equal to the mass of the rod times the acceleration it experiences:F=MxA. (It's a bit more complicated, what with how much of the rod shouldbe used to determine mass being accelerated and bent, but you get the I like the rest of your arguement about more loading and unloading, viaacceleration, for the same power input. At the great risk of putting wordsin Darryl's mouth, I believe he has put forth the arguement that thehollow-built rod is lighter and takes less force to load, and thus "feels"stiffer even when it isn't. (Darryl, please feel free to correct me on thispoint.) As for throwing the line for free, when gasoline goes from $1.199 pergallon to $1.099 per gallon, and I fill up my car, did I get some for free?Bears thinking about! Best regards,Ed Estlow "Carsten J?rgensen" on 02/11/98 11:46:42 AM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" ----------Sir D wroteI made a few hollow rods about two years ago. The difference isn'thardly noticeable for rods less than 8 ft. long, but, hollowing a roddoes make a rod flex more with the same weight, if that's what youmean by softer. The difference is in your perception of what'shappening when you are casting it. With less weight as you areswinging it back and forth in a cast it seems as if the rod werestiffer. I would look at hollowing a rod longer than 8 ft., but it'snot worth the trouble on rods shorter than that. Darryl HayashidaSir DImagine removing lets say 25% of the weight of the rod. We agree that itwill feel more steely, as less weight accelerated and decellerated meansless demand of power, as inflicted by the arm casting the rod. OK, so therod is actually softer, but this is a static phenomena. Less weight meansfaster accelleration and decelleration for the same amount ofpower.We?retalking replacing cane with flyline, so You might say that to some degreewe have the line thrown "for free".Discussing things like this is stretching my vocabulary to the limit (andbeyond) but I hope to have made my point, which BTW is purelyspeculative.Best regardsCarsten Jorgensen from brookside.rod@juno.com Wed Feb 11 13:18:06 1998 06:10:46 EST Subject: Re: small scraper plane On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:07:56 -0600 jim_kubichek@s- hamilton.k12.ia.uswrites:Has anyone seen, ordered, or used the very small scraper plane that isabout 3/4" x 2 3/4" in size with a 1/2" bladeJim Kubichek Jim and the list; A while back I built a small scraper plane modeled after my LN. .750wide blades made from files; body about 1.250 wide and 2.5 long fromsilicon bronze. After scraping strips most of the way to finish thelittle scraper permits much better control due to its light weight. Thesmall size fits the hand well and makes it easy to "drive". Works forme! Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 11 13:22:07 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics In a message dated 2/11/98 10:48:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,eestlow@srminc.com writes: Not to step on Darryl's toes in responding to this, but interesting No problem there! I'm not a mechanical engineer, and I'm sureyour answers will make more sense than mine. In fact if youwould be so kind as to take over this thread, I'm sure I'll learn something. Darryl Hayashida from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 11 13:54:50 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08087 for Subject: Re: scraper plane At 09:28 AM 2/11/98 -0600, you wrote:Jesada is a relatively new maker of router bits and some other cuttingtools. Their products have received good reviews. Their cataloghas mostly their stuff and a few other things. You can reach thenonline at www.jesada.com or at 800-531-5559.--Frank On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Art Port wrote: Frank,I've been on this server for only a short time but I've been fooling withwoodworking and rodbuilding for about 25 years. I've never heard of theJesada Catalog ( and I must get over 50 of them in the mail). Where aretheyand how can I get them to send me a copy. You've already piqued myinterestwith their below-Garrett-Wade prices.ThanksArt Port Frank,Thanks for the response.Art from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 11 13:58:00 1998 Subject: RE:Hollow-build Dynamics RO>Not to step on Darryl's toes in responding to this, but interestingRO>speculation, Carsten. I'm not sure I agree with your comment that theRO>softness is a static phenomenon, though. The force that loads (bends) arodRO>is equal to the mass of the rod times the acceleration it experiences:RO>F=MxA. (It's a bit more complicated, what with how much of the rodshouldRO>be used to determine mass being accelerated and bent, but you get theRO>idea.) Acceleration, and velocity for that matter, is definitely dynamic. RO>I like the rest of your arguement about more loading and unloading, viaRO>acceleration, for the same power input. At the great risk of puttingwordsRO>in Darryl's mouth, I believe he has put forth the arguement that theRO>hollow-built rod is lighter and takes less force to load, and thus"feels"RO>stiffer even when it isn't. (Darryl, please feel free to correct me onthisRO>point.) What also loads the rod is the motion of the rod through the air. Anydiscussion of loading without considering the cross-sectional area aspresented to the air will be flawed. Place a rod in a vice (tip up) andpull some fly line out and behind the rod until the rod is bent - letgo. The flyline will NOT go much beyond the rod. Eighty-three percent of the the energy of a cast was proven, byexperiment, to come from the motion of the rod, while only 17% came from deflection of the rod itself. Weight in the tip adds to the abilityof a rod to cast a line, bamboo excells in this compared to graphite. Anexperiment was done with a graphite rod by adding lead to the tip andobserving the effect to the action. I believe this is why some people might think the hollow rod was faster. See "The New American Trout Fishing" by John Merwin, Section II "TheTools", Chapter 9 for more details. Makes for darn good reading. All IMHO, Don Burns from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 14:35:33 1998 1997)) id862565A8.0070B7A9 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:31:10 -0600 Subject: RE:Hollow-build Dynamics Don makes an excellent point. The rod and line movement through spacerepresents momentum (speed times mass) and this is what Don's 83% isfrom.One of Newton's Laws (on inertia) says an object in motion tends to stayinmotion unless influenced by outside forces (like friction or gravity).Higher line speed casts the line further. I would think weight in the tip is about momentum transfer - from the rodto the line - interesting. Best regards,Ed Estlow What also loads the rod is the motion of the rod through the air. Anydiscussion of loading without considering the cross-sectional area aspresented to the air will be flawed. Place a rod in a vice (tip up) andpull some fly line out and behind the rod until the rod is bent - letgo. The flyline will NOT go much beyond the rod.Eighty-three percent of the the energy of a cast was proven, byexperiment, to come from the motion of the rod, while only 17% came from deflection of the rod itself. Weight in the tip adds to the abilityof a rod to cast a line, bamboo excells in this compared to graphite. Anexperiment was done with a graphite rod by adding lead to the tip andobserving the effect to the action.I believe this is why some people might think the hollow rod was faster.See "The New American Trout Fishing" by John Merwin, Section II "TheTools", Chapter 9 for more details.Makes for darn good reading.All IMHO,Don Burns from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Feb 11 15:10:06 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing ---risidual amounts are flying around the sprayroomyou will get fisheye!!. If one has a problem with coating rod blankswith epoxy and having it come off it's more likely to be from oil onones hands then the use of old T-Shirts!!Dave Price (always wipdown a rod with alcohol before epoxy) Dave, Just simple wrapping/finishing - no spray. Tried wiping blanks with acouple kinds of alcohol also tried acetone. I take a long time to wrap rods(even plastic blanks). Just kept my hands off my shirt (partly reaching forcigarettes - I get up, I don't smoke in the house) and the problemdisappeared. Ted G. from tball@mail.portup.com Wed Feb 11 15:25:32 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Half-radius router bits Harry, the 5/8'' is what Wayne uses. The order #583 is the one for thefingernail bit from MLCS at 1-800-533-9298. Their address is MLCSLTD. PO Box 4053 C-18 Rydal, PA 19046Good Luck Tom in Trout Lake from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 11 15:36:48 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 7:05:15 PM, you wrote: You are right that filling the blank with glue would negate the effect ofhollowing, but it is possible to avoid the problem with proper technique. Idon't think that there is any discrepancy in Carsten's observation andDarryland Don Anderson's experience. Remember that Carsten was merely flexinganunfinished rod. I would expect a hollow built rod to recover faster withoutaline load on it because of the lower weight. When load is applied I wouldexpect the solid rod to bear up better. I can't explain that mathematically,it's based on a little bit of experience. Ed? from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Feb 11 16:07:50 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA04115 for Subject: Re: Philosophy At 10:52 AM 2/11/98, you wrote:You're a gentleman Bret. Well said. When it comes right down to it, Iactually agree with JCZ's point, just a bit too heavy handed. As a firsttime rod builder, I'm glad for the help from this list and the two bks--oldand new testament, but don't tell me all. You can't of course. Yes, and we all come here to drink up ideas and techniques. I expect thatonce in a while the real pros like JCZ find something useful here. I hopethat when I build my first rod that it is my own, but there is no way inhell I could do it without the kind of help available from the rod makerson this list. Thanks,Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 16:08:50 1998 1997)) id862565A8.007945C6 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:04:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Hollow building I should think that a hollow rod would recover faster due to the lowermass- less inertia. But this would depend upon how much of the rod was hollow-2/3, 1/2 - and where. Real quickly, this gets into spring constants andnatural frequencies (think tuning fork) of the rod, which in turn arefunctions of the cross sectional shape, area, and their distribution alongthe rod. I'd have to go home and check my references, but I believe ahollow rod would have a higher natural frequency than a solid rod of thesame exterior dimensions. That would equate to recovering faster. (Another, perhaps better, way to think of natural frequency is to imagineholding the rod grip in a vise and pulling on the tip latterally, thenreleasing. The rate, in cycles per second, at which the tip "whips" oroscillates back and forth is the natural frequency. The more cycles persecond, the higher the natural frequency.) With respect to bearing up better, a solid rod has more material and,Winston's hollowing method notwithstanding, more glue surface, thusmoredurable? Best regards,-Ed Estlow TSmithwick@aol.com on 02/11/98 03:33:57 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 7:05:15 PM, you wrote: You are right that filling the blank with glue would negate the effect ofhollowing, but it is possible to avoid the problem with proper technique. Idon't think that there is any discrepancy in Carsten's observation andDarryland Don Anderson's experience. Remember that Carsten was merely flexinganunfinished rod. I would expect a hollow built rod to recover faster withoutaline load on it because of the lower weight. When load is applied I wouldexpect the solid rod to bear up better. I can't explain thatmathematically,it's based on a little bit of experience. Ed? from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 11 16:31:32 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 11:05:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,rennygr@ibm.netwrites: Isn't the material being removed the pith, which would be considerablyless densethan the exterior bamboo? If so, wouldn't stiffness be impacted to alesserdegree than with a higher density throughout? I keep on mentioning short rods vs. longer rods, and here I should interjectrods made for lighter wt. lines and heavier wt. lines. Usually in a rodshorterthan 8ft. for a line lighter than 6 wt. all of the diameter is power fiber,evendown in the handle. This is the reason I stipulated shorter rods in my previous posts. In a 9 ft. or 8 wt. rod the rod might contain some pith, orlight concentration of power fiber, and I could see a benefit in removingit. Secondly, doesn't the excess glue tend to fill the removed interiorspace? Iwould surmise that any extruded glue might tend to minimize anyweight savingsgains. What impact might any interior glue have on stiffness & couldthispartially explain the discrepancy some folks noted between perceived stiffness(casting) & theoretical stiffness (equation)? There are different ways of making hollow rods, but to take care of thisproblem I planed a small bit of the inside apex where the ferruleswent to leave a small hole. Between the ferrules I planed away abouthalf the strip depth. After glue up, I ran a wire through the holes, drawingit through the blank in one direction, wiping the glue off the wire, runningit through again, etc. I then held it vertically and blew air through it fromtop to bottom, and quite a bit of glue came out. I didn't get it all out,because after the glue dried the bottom hole was plugged, but I'mconfident I got most of the glue out. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 11 16:44:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 10:09:55 PM, you wrote: Ed - There is no doubt at all that a solid rod is more durable. What I wastrying to suggest is that a solid rod would be faster than a similar hollowrod when actual casting is involved, as opposed to merely flexing withoutlineload. Darryl and Don seem to have found this to be true, and my ownlimitedexperience also suggests it. As you point out, there are a lot of potentialvariables. I also suspect that if a taper gets too thick, weight wouldoverwhelm the solid rod, and the hollow rod would have an advantage. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 11 17:18:36 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 11Feb 1998 18:19:16 +0000 Subject: Acetone or Denatured? Just wanted to make sure there is nothing wrong with wiping a rod down before dipping with acetone or denatured alcohol. It's about that time again (thank god)! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 11 17:32:15 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id SAA10373 for; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:32:12 -0500 Subject: Re: plane waxing Ted Godfrey wrote: ---risidual amounts are flying around the sprayroomyou will get fisheye!!. If one has a problem with coating rod blankswith epoxy and having it come off it's more likely to be from oil onones hands then the use of old T-Shirts!!Dave Price (always wipdown a rod with alcohol before epoxy) Dave, Just simple wrapping/finishing - no spray. Tried wiping blanks with acouple kinds of alcohol also tried acetone. I take a long time to wraprods(even plastic blanks). Just kept my hands off my shirt (partly reachingforcigarettes - I get up, I don't smoke in the house) and the problemdisappeared. Ted G. Ted I find it what your saying hard to beleave, think of the thousandsand thousands of people whiping there sweaty pigies on therejeans,shirts just to get the oils off there hands before they handlemillions of objects before painting and you the only one I've heard ofthis happening to!!!!.Dave Price from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 11 17:46:07 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:45:37 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics As for throwing the line for free, when gasoline goes from $1.199 pergallon to $1.099 per gallon, and I fill up my car, did I get some for free?Bears thinking about! Best regards,Ed Estlow Out here we pay 80 cents per litre for fuel ($3.20 per gal). At 29 cents per litre your fuel *is* free! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 11 17:55:16 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:55:08 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow building On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: You are right that filling the blank with glue would negate the effect ofhollowing, but it is possible to avoid the problem with proper technique.Idon't think that there is any discrepancy in Carsten's observation andDarryland Don Anderson's experience. Remember that Carsten was merelyflexing anunfinished rod. I would expect a hollow built rod to recover fasterwithout aline load on it because of the lower weight. When load is applied I wouldexpect the solid rod to bear up better. I can't explain thatmathematically,it's based on a little bit of experience. Ed? Has anybody used a hexigraph rod? Never seen one and untill now never thought much about them but as these are basicaly solid graphite rods, not graphite throughout as they have foam sandwich construction are these stiffer then hollow graphite rods? from what I'm told they have weight problem. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Feb 11 18:02:24 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id AAA21941 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:45:00 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics Have just arrived back from a meeting in my fishing club. To the questionof more or less stifness in a hollow built rod I was fed these formulas.Hope they make sense: In order to make it fairly easy, we'll pretend the rod is round. For anexample we'll calculate on an outer diameter of 0,3" for both ordinary rodand hollow built rod. Were lokking for the percentage difference inresistence and the percentage in loss of weight. I have tried to translateas best as I can, so here it comes: D = outer diameter of both rods= 0,3"d = inner diameter of hollow rod=0,14"t= thickness of wall in hollowbuilt rod=0,08" the above are given measures W= moment of resistenceA= surface area of cane the above are what were looking for Please note: D2 means DxD, D3 means DxDxD and so on Ordinary rod A=(3,14:4) x D2 equals: 0,07065 sq.inch. W = (3,14:32) x D3 equals 0,00265 Hollow built rod A: (3,14:4) x(D2 - d2) equals 0,05526, giving a reduction in area, andtherefor weight, of some 22 percent at this specific point. W=(3,14:32) x ((D4 - d4) : D) equals 0,002524 giving a reduction instiffnes of some 5% Assuming my figures are correct, we can deduct the following: The reduction in stiffnes is minimal in this example. Relating to rods, wehave calculated on somewhere in the butt, being the place in the rod,wheremost cane has been removed, therefore being the exact spot, where thedifference in stifness and weightloss are the greatest. The further up therod we go, the smaller the weightloss and difference in stiffnes. This is a static calculation. What is not included is the influence, lackof weight has on the necessary power induced into the rod in order tomakego forwards and backwards. OK, the rod is softer by some 5%, but theweightloss is some 22%. Therefore some 17% less power is necessary inroderto make the rod perform the same movements. What I am not saying is that this particular hollowbuilt rod is 17% stifferthan the org. rod. My point is, based on the above calculations, thathollow built rods may be softer, static measured, but are more steely anddemand less power from the fisherman in order to perform the task ofthrowing a given line a given distance. OK all of You still hanging on, this was what I was instructed to say. Allthe mathematics are from an engineer, the deductions are mine. Sorry tohave used all this bandwith, but this might be of interest to some. Now fire away if You are still awake. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 11 18:04:36 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:04:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: plane waxing On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, David Price wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: ---risidual amounts are flying around the sprayroomyou will get fisheye!!. If one has a problem with coating rod blankswith epoxy and having it come off it's more likely to be from oil onones hands then the use of old T-Shirts!!Dave Price (always wipdown a rod with alcohol before epoxy) Dave, Just simple wrapping/finishing - no spray. Tried wiping blanks with acouple kinds of alcohol also tried acetone. I take a long time to wraprods(even plastic blanks). Just kept my hands off my shirt (partly reachingforcigarettes - I get up, I don't smoke in the house) and the problemdisappeared. Ted G. Ted I find it what your saying hard to beleave, think of the thousandsand thousands of people whiping there sweaty pigies on therejeans,shirts just to get the oils off there hands before they handlemillions of objects before painting and you the only one I've heard ofthis happening to!!!!.Dave Price Not so. Harking once again bact to the days when I earned an honest living as a boat builder you *never* dusted down a freshly sanded deck that was about to be bright finished with an old item of clothing for the very reason you would develop a blotchy finish. On a $2mill boat that is not good form.I'm certain there are gizillions of people doing just that and deciding the poor results are due to atmospherics at the time the finish was applied and a fair share would be that but not all. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Feb 11 18:17:03 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building Tony I tried one of them last weekend at the Seattle sportsman's show and Iwouldn't characterize it as being a bit fast. I mean, I realize they do makedifferent models and all, but I wasn't impressed at all. Davy PS I thought it was kind of ugly, too. from longroge@isu.edu Wed Feb 11 18:27:39 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building I also suspect that if a taper gets too thick, weight wouldoverwhelm the solid rod, and the hollow rod would have an advantage. I'm interested in eventually building bamboo spey rods (after I get someexperience with smaller rods), and I'm wondering if hollow butt sections could bemadestiff enough. I'm also wondering how I can get consistent thickness andstiffness foreach spline when I'm not planing them to an equilaterally triangularcross-section. Roger from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 11 18:29:13 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics You may want to look at what Ed Marinaro said about the pith in his book Inthe Ring of the Rise. He talked about the pith having a cushoning effect. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Re: Hollow-build DynamicsDate: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 3:42 PM Have just arrived back from a meeting in my fishing club. To the questionof more or less stifness in a hollow built rod I was fed these formulas.Hope they make sense: In order to make it fairly easy, we'll pretend the rod is round. For anexample we'll calculate on an outer diameter of 0,3" for both ordinaryrodand hollow built rod. Were lokking for the percentage difference inresistence and the percentage in loss of weight. I have tried totranslateas best as I can, so here it comes: D = outer diameter of both rods= 0,3"d = inner diameter of hollow rod=0,14"t= thickness of wall in hollowbuilt rod=0,08" the above are given measures W= moment of resistenceA= surface area of cane the above are what were looking for Please note: D2 means DxD, D3 means DxDxD and so on Ordinary rod A=(3,14:4) x D2 equals: 0,07065 sq.inch. W = (3,14:32) x D3 equals 0,00265 Hollow built rod A: (3,14:4) x(D2 - d2) equals 0,05526, giving a reduction in area, andtherefor weight, of some 22 percent at this specific point. W=(3,14:32) x ((D4 - d4) : D) equals 0,002524 giving a reduction instiffnes of some 5% Assuming my figures are correct, we can deduct the following: The reduction in stiffnes is minimal in this example. Relating to rods,wehave calculated on somewhere in the butt, being the place in the rod,wheremost cane has been removed, therefore being the exact spot, where thedifference in stifness and weightloss are the greatest. The further uptherod we go, the smaller the weightloss and difference in stiffnes. This is a static calculation. What is not included is the influence, lackof weight has on the necessary power induced into the rod in order tomakego forwards and backwards. OK, the rod is softer by some 5%, but theweightloss is some 22%. Therefore some 17% less power is necessary inroderto make the rod perform the same movements. What I am not saying is that this particular hollowbuilt rod is 17%stifferthan the org. rod. My point is, based on the above calculations, thathollow built rods may be softer, static measured, but are more steelyanddemand less power from the fisherman in order to perform the task ofthrowing a given line a given distance. OK all of You still hanging on, this was what I was instructed to say.Allthe mathematics are from an engineer, the deductions are mine. Sorry tohave used all this bandwith, but this might be of interest to some. Now fire away if You are still awake. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Feb 11 18:30:10 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA22852 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:03:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics ----------Ed wrote: from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 11 18:51:31 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id SAA19036 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id SAA31194 for ; Wed, 11 Feb1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics And at the opposite end of the spectrum would be a double-built rod,which would be all dense power fibers and no pith. I'm thinking oftrying one someday, to utilize some of the thin, light culms I gotlast summer. I suppose that the denser the power fibers, the more the cane weighs.Does anyone know this for a fact? ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Robert Clarke wrote: You may want to look at what Ed Marinaro said about the pith in his bookInthe Ring of the Rise. He talked about the pith having a cushoning effect. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from DRinker370@aol.com Wed Feb 11 19:24:49 1998 Subject: Lathes help I need a bit of clarification . If a lathe has a ten inch bed length can itbe used for turning a cork grip or do I have to move up to a larger bed size.Thanks Dave. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Feb 11 19:37:55 1998 Subject: Re: Ni-silver bluing Don,After oxidizing the N/S, I coat the part with one coat of Stay-Bright. This product dries fast, is hard and has a UV protection to help against fading. I buy Stay-Bright from Constantiens the wood working company. You can also find it at some hardware stores and paint stores.This isgood stuff. Dave LeClair from jfoster@gte.net Wed Feb 11 19:41:49 1998 Subject: web Hi Group Just added Joe Arguello's site to the makers page, it's a pretty trickpage, you should check it out...also has some great process pictures forthe new makers.. Jerry from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Feb 11 20:02:00 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Donald,The nine inches is over the bed. When you buy a lathe, that ishow they are listed nine in., ten in., etc.That is always the swing over thebed. The distance on my lathe between centers is around 18 inches. This isan Dave L. from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Feb 11 20:03:18 1998 Subject: Progress Report I have the butt section planed and in wraps and have started on the tipsection. I know those of you that have been on this list for a whilewill have seen such reports before. I just wanted to thank everyone forall of the great suggestions and help. I think the most helpful was theencouragement that this can be done. Not necessarily to me, orcurrently written (read the archives). I am at a point now where I know I will get a finished rod from thisprocess. I am at a point now where I am looking forward to the secondattempt to correct some of the errors that the learning curve haspointed out. This is a hell of a lot of fun! Thanks everyone! SteveIndependence, MO from flyfisher@brinet.com Wed Feb 11 20:21:01 1998 21:25:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Donald,The nine inches is over the bed. When you buy a lathe, that ishow they are listed nine in., ten in., etc.That is always the swing over thebed. The distance on my lathe between centers is around 18 inches. This isan Dave L. Thanks@! That's what I thought, but it never hurts to ask. Now All Ihave to do is come up with the money. :o Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Feb 11 20:25:17 1998 Subject: Re: Lathes help Dave,When a lathe is listed as a ten inch lathe, That is the swing overthe bed. A lathe with a distance of ten inches between centers isn't long enough.You really should get something with a little longer distance than that.It wouldwork, but I would like something a little longer,if you can afford it.You should neverbuy one of those little hobby lathes. You will find it is too small. Dave LeClair from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 11 21:04:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics Carsten,If it quacks like a duck,etc. it must be a duck.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 11 21:13:37 1998 Subject: Re: Progress Report Steve,Ive been doing this for 20+years and the learning curve is still upwardandit's still fun. Welcome to this nutty world.Hank. from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 11 21:30:19 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA14209 +0000 Subject: Double built rods -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics And at the opposite end of the spectrum would be a double-built rod,which would be all dense power fibers and no pith. I'm thinking oftrying one someday, to utilize some of the thin, light culms I gotlast summer. I suppose that the denser the power fibers, the more the cane weighs.Does anyone know this for a fact?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...>Frank: I am presently building a "double built" rod (Butt section) I chose thistechnique as an experiment to eliminate working on nodes, and to obtain abeautiful yellow outer surface. I took a piece of bamboo that had a verynice outside look (no watermarks or other blemishes) I sanded (on a beltsander) the nodes on each strip until they were flush with the small risethat each node presents, above the normal height of the cane. I alsosandedaway a lot of the pith side. I then planed the enamel side until the nodes and the rest of the cane wereperfectly flat. I planed the pith side down to the power fibers. Whenfinished the piece was about 1/8" thick.I did 12 strips in this manner and heated all strips (after somestraightening ) in my oven. These strips were glued together (two strips at a time, top piece enamelup.... glued to bottom piece enamel up.........e.i. pith to enamel) The six strips were thereby "double built" with a beautiful top, free ofblemishes and perfectly flat, ready for planing. I did not worry aboutcutting through power fibers on the top piece since the whole structurewasentirely "power fibres" I staggered the nodes somewhat on each of thetwopieces that were glued together, but again did not worry about exactstaggering. The whole operation took much less time than working thenodesand less time than building nodless rods ( I have built several "nodlessrods") The individual glued strips ARE heavier than either nodless or node type. Iwas surprised to find that the butt sections weighed 1/3 more with thisconstruction than conventional construction! (This is the weight of thebamboo, not including the glue, which may be negligible!) I should not havebeen so surprised!!! I am debating whether or not to hollow the butt on the next rod.I did not not "double build" the tip section since the doubing disappearsless than half way up the tip section and there are obviously enough powerfibers in the tip. I have not cast this rod yet so I do not have a comparison of the castingcharacteristics. The advantages of this construction technique are obvious.......use abeautiful piece of the top part of each strip, use watermarked or "farmersmarked' sections for the lower section, no nodes to worry about, straightreference for the planing form where the top is perfectly flat, densepowerfibers in the whole rod section, and fast operations with a belt sander andplane. Disadvantages are that it uses more cane,and, without hollowing it isheavier. Unknowns are the effects of more glue (it should not be much differentthanthe effects of glue in a nodless rod) The reason for the experiment was to get a more beautiful outer surfaceonthe rod, not strength. It was inspired by a statement on the listsuggesting that Winston may have obtained their beautiful yellowsurfaces byusing up some of the power fibers. This method allows the fine finish bycutting into the fibers but replacing them in the lower piece. It is nottruly "double built", but more like a veneer topped strip.(The top and bottom pieces of a strip may not be the same thickness,depending on the culm and power fiber thiickness) The "double built " scheme in an old Herters book was used as a guide. Will let you know how it cast in a few weeks. Dick from brookside.rod@juno.com Wed Feb 11 22:13:52 1998 20:14:21 EST Subject: Re: Ni-silver bluing On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:27:53 Don Andersen writes:To all, Taking my first pass @ bluing ni-si parts.The questions are: - what do you use to coat and protect the bluing Don; I use an automotive grade of clear acrylic lacquer purchased by the pint.Such products are available at auto parts shops and others which supplythe auto painting trade. This lacquer is reduced by 50% or a bit morewith the appropriate thinner. The thinner I use is produced for mylacquer product by the same manufacturer. Male ferrules are masked, females plugged. The finish is applied bydipping and slowly with-drawing as if varnishing a rod with dip method. Ferrule surfaces are cleaned with alcohol and tack ragged before dipping.One coat is sufficient. Dip the rod section and hang in your dust freedrying space for minimum 24 hours before removing mask or plugs. Inorder to keep your prepared lacquer for any length of time you mustprovide an air tight container. Finish will be found to be harder than most aerosol packed products andcapable of longer service. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 11 22:18:51 1998 Subject: Lathes help RO>I need a bit of clarification . If a lathe has a ten inch bed length can itRO>be used for turning a cork grip or do I have to move up to a larger bedsizeRO>Thanks Dave. What's the length of the grip? Add the reelseat and that's the max. youshould need. IMHO, Don Burns from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 12 00:55:47 1998 Subject: lathes All;I bought one of J.C. Bogeman's mini lathes, and Dave is right, it is toosmall,orwould be if I was planning to do any more than turn grips andferrule stations.For the money, it was worth it for that.As long as I canbuy ferrules, reel seats , etc. as nice as the ones from Dave, Bellingerand REC,then I will leave making these things to those that are good at itand concentrate on the cane work. Just my .02 c's worth.John Channer from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Feb 12 01:01:18 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing Ted I find it what your saying hard to beleave, think of thethousandsand thousands of people whiping there sweaty pigies on therejeans, David, I fully understand your position, lived it and perhaps I was trying to useflex coat just at the edge of its "envelope". Went through severalconversations with owner of flex coat who was after me to check outeverything for possible presence of silicone. A couple of those thickfabric softerner sheets in close dryer with a few shirts . . . Shirtssmelled rather perfumy, I smelled . . . well, better. Also, unlike many rodwrappers, I was trying to run the flex coat at least 3/8" down the blank oneach wrap. If the junction between blank and flex coat could be detected,bad coating. Also showed up occasionally as small birds eyes on 3" widearea covering signiture. Suffering with this problem, some rods came outjust fine; others were whores. This problem and flex coat in general is effected by heat curing. Roomtempcuring made the problem nearly dissapear (frankly, flexcoat doesn'trecommend raising temp) and indeed most people cure flex coat at roomtemp,but I had always used aprox 100 F with no problem. Got rid of the softenersheets, kept the dirt and sweat and I was able to use fast cure temp again.I think we have about beat this one to death. Ted G. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 12 01:44:42 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:44:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow building On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Tony I tried one of them last weekend at the Seattle sportsman's show and Iwouldn't characterize it as being a bit fast. I mean, I realize they domakedifferent models and all, but I wasn't impressed at all. Davy PS I thought it was kind of ugly, too. Yes, they are ugly but do you think you could go as far as saying there is a comparison between the hexigraph vis hollow graphite rod and the conventional vis hollow built cane rod? Or is the hexigraph action just too different to compare? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jsbond@inforamp.net Thu Feb 12 04:30:42 1998 Subject: Re: Acetone or Denatured? Acetone is a nasty substance, it eats things, I suggest extreme caution. JB At 18:19 11/02/98 +0000, you wrote:Just wanted to make sure there is nothing wrong with wiping a rod down before dipping with acetone or denatured alcohol. It's about that time again (thank god)! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 12 08:12:51 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/12/98 12:30:18 AM, you wrote: Roger - I would be very careful. The butt of a spey rod gets a lot of stress,both flexing and torque. I think I would try a solid one first, maybe evendouble built. from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Feb 12 08:13:40 1998 1997)) id862565A9.004DCA54 ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:09:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics I've often wondered about the damping (read cushioning) effects of thepith. This would be analogous to coating a vibrating structure withabsorbant material such as rubber or foam to damp out the vibrations.Maybethat's what's going on with the Hexagraph rod, too. Also, didn't Ed Marinaro play for the Minnesota Vikings and act on HillStreet Blues? ; ^) Best regards,Ed Estlow "Robert Clarke" on 02/11/98 06:27:33 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics You may want to look at what Ed Marinaro said about the pith in his book Inthe Ring of the Rise. He talked about the pith having a cushoning effect. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Feb 12 09:16:39 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id PAA10219 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:16:34 GMT Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics Frank Stetzer wrote: And at the opposite end of the spectrum would be a double-built rod,which would be all dense power fibers and no pith. I suppose that the denser the power fibers, the more the cane weighs.Does anyone know this for a fact? Yes the power fibers are denser than the pith. If you have a scale (balance)youcan use some scrap and see the difference in weight of the two. Bryant C. from donkovach@email.msn.com Thu Feb 12 09:21:52 1998 MicrosoftSMTPSVC;Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:21:21 -0800 SMTPSVC;Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:21:12 -0800 Subject: Planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD37A0.084E82E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD37A0.084E82E0 I am getting ready to order planes to begin my foray into rodmaking and =I am unsure which planes to purchase. I know from reading several books=that the Stanley model 9 1/2 is the one most referred to, but I was =wondering if there is a particular manufacturer that makes a better =product than another. The Woodcraft catalog has Stanley, Record, and =Lie-Nielsen planes that would all seem to fit the bill. Has anyone =noticed any significant differences in the quality of these different =manufacturers equipment? Thanks, ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD37A0.084E82E0 I am gettingready = planes to begin my foray into rodmaking and I am unsure which planes = is the one most referred to, but I was wondering if there is a = catalog has Stanley, Record, and Lie-Nielsen planes that would all seem = these different manufacturers equipment? Thanks, ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD37A0.084E82E0-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 12 09:43:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Acetone or Denatured? Jon,JB is right-use alcohol.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 12 09:43:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building Tony, I have cast but not fished the Hexagraph rods.IMHO they don't begin toapproximate good cane . They are heavier than graphite-some people like'embut I think it's a case of the Emporer's new clothes. Just my $0.02.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 12 09:45:06 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics No Ed, he played for the Beatles. ;-) from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Feb 12 09:46:01 1998 Subject: Re: Planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C0_01BD37A3.1C7A0E80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01BD37A3.1C7A0E80 -----Original Message-----From: Donald Kovach Date: Thursday, February 12, 1998 10:24 AMSubject: Planes I am getting ready to order planes to begin my foray into rodmaking =and I am unsure which planes to purchase. I know from reading several =books that the Stanley model 9 1/2 is the one most referred to, but I =was wondering if there is a particular manufacturer that makes a better =product than another. The Woodcraft catalog has Stanley, Record, and =Lie-Nielsen planes that would all seem to fit the bill. Has anyone =noticed any significant differences in the quality of these different =manufacturers equipment? Thanks, Don, Back on the 9th and there-bouts there was some discussion of =preference for planes. If you got those posts, were/are they of any =help in your discission? ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01BD37A3.1C7A0E80 -----Original = RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= PlanesI am getting= planes to begin my foray into rodmaking and I am unsure which planes = particular manufacturer that makes a better product than = Woodcraft catalog has Stanley, Record, and Lie-Nielsen planes that = in the quality of these different manufacturers =equipment? Thanks, Don, Back on the9th = there-bouts there was some discussion of preference for = discission? ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01BD37A3.1C7A0E80-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Feb 12 10:00:30 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Hollow building At 16:33 11/02/98 EST, Carsten, Darryl, Ed, Tom et al were discussinghollow builds: 1] The glue thing: Saw an Xray of a hollow built rod and there was littleevidence of glue "inside" the hollows. 2] The matching pair of rods I built last year showed me that the hollowedrod is not only softer but will not cast as far [ is not as powerful] - thesolid twin was capable of about 85' without strain whereas the hollowedouttwin was about 75' with the same effort - big disclaimer here - I didn'tinvent or rig any type of gizmo to measure the effort it took to cast eachrod - just 45 years of flinging these things about tells me the difference.All opinions are purely subjective. 3] The pith was removed until there was 0.085" of power fiber left in thehollowed out rod. 4] The rod I built was not truly hollow as I left dams along the rod shaftto strengthen the hoop strength. I guess I was too damn chicken to make atruly hollow rod. 5] As Darryl says - there would seem to be few advantages to hollow rodsinshorter line lengths. 6] If you were to build two rods that were to cast with about the sametaper the same distance with the same effort, I would expect that youmighthave too add up to 0.025" in the butt diameter to offset the hollowingthing. Of course the 0.025" would have to be spread upwards towards thetip@ 0.001"/1" of travel/strip approx. What this would change the weightdifference - I haven't got a clue. Was fun building the thing - maybe more fun making the mill to do thework- still added about $150.00 to the cost of the first one. Gonna have tomake more just to defray the cost of the goofy machine. Just some random thoughts, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Feb 12 10:00:38 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes At 20:54 11/02/98 EST, you wrote:Donald,The nine inches is over the bed. When you buy a lathe, that ishow they are listed nine in., ten in., etc.That is always the swing over thebed. The distance on my lathe between centers is around 18 inches. This isan Dave L. Dave, I'm about 18" bed length too with a swing of 6" - wouldn't want anyshorter. You got a Myford too? Don from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 12 10:07:23 1998 Subject: Thomas Dirigio A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3 peice9footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry fly action.The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, and twotips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyremoved. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish is alligatoredandwill need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediatewraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina of age,butis not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enough now,butmay need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern, againtypical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila, Pa." , inaddition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me off list. --Tom from jtien@ptdcs2.intel.com Thu Feb 12 10:09:21 1998 AA15004(5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 12 Feb 199808:09:14-0800 Subject: Re: my rod refinishing project and winding check Hank, Thanks for the tip. I hadn't thought of epoxy.. Joe from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Feb 12 10:21:10 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics OK, Vince Marinaro. I think I got the last name right, didn't I? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: eestlow@srminc.com Subject: Re: Hollow-build DynamicsDate: Thursday, February 12, 1998 6:11 AM I've often wondered about the damping (read cushioning) effects of thepith. This would be analogous to coating a vibrating structure withabsorbant material such as rubber or foam to damp out the vibrations.Maybethat's what's going on with the Hexagraph rod, too. Also, didn't Ed Marinaro play for the Minnesota Vikings and act on HillStreet Blues? ; ^) Best regards,Ed Estlow "Robert Clarke" on 02/11/98 06:27:33 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/SRM/US)Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics You may want to look at what Ed Marinaro said about the pith in his bookInthe Ring of the Rise. He talked about the pith having a cushoningeffect. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 12 10:28:18 1998 Subject: RE:Thomas Dirigio RO>A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3peiceRO>footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry flyaction.RO>The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, andtwoRO>tips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyRO>removed. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish isalligatored andRO>will need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediateRO>wraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina ofage, buRO>is not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enough now,buRO>may need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern,againRO>typical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila, Pa.", iRO>addition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.RO>He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me offlist. --RO>Tom Mac (Chris McDowell), You should jump on this - it's already allengraved for you. Don B. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 12 11:03:02 1998 Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:02:51 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow building On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Tony, I have cast but not fished the Hexagraph rods.IMHO they don't begin toapproximate good cane . They are heavier than graphite-some people like'embut I think it's a case of the Emporer's new clothes. Just my $0.02.Hank. Up until about 10 years ago thwere was and maybe still is a guy called John McGin making cane rods here. He was reasonably well known but I don't know why as nobody could reach him to get a rod from him. I understand he droped cane and went into hexagraph. from what I cangather he's making these for the game fishermen (marlin etc, not fly) whereweight isn't a problem. Sounds strange but that's what I hear.Anyhow, it seems he turned to the dark side trying to replicate the good side of cane with the action and robustness of graphite and this is the question I'm trying to ask re hollow building. If hollow building (cane) has any advantages over solid cane, and it seems as if the advantage is minimal to the point that nobody can realy say whatis the reason for making haxagraph rods solid when the extra weight is involved? Any reason apart from an experiment taken too far? The fact hexagraph hasn't died off completely makes me wonder.I guess I should try and cast one. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from penr0295@uidaho.edu Thu Feb 12 13:17:22 1998 doing-bs Subject: Bamboo Rod Magazine sighting A friend at FF@ forwarded this post to me regarding the Bamboo Fly Rodmagazine: I was in the Orvis Madison Ave. store in NY yesterday and saw themagazine. The salesman and I could not find a price on the mag. I didnot get a chance to look through it because the meter maid was comingdown the block. Had to leave! Steve W.Brooklyn, NY Thomas PenroseBend, OR from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Feb 12 13:21:36 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics I've been waiting for Ed to respond to Carstens' post, since as Isaid, I'm not a mechanical engineer. A couple things bother me about the conclusions Carsten comes up with. The first one was he takes a reduction in stiffness and subtractsthat from a reduction in weight. I'm not sure what the units of measureare in the stiffness number, but I'm fairly sure they aren't the same as the weight measurement. I'm sure the weight does have something todo with the stiffness, but I don't think it's a straight correlation. I maybe wrong, like I said, I'm not a mechanical engineer. The other thing is more practical than anything else. When I wasexperimenting with hollow building, I was able to hollow out thehandle section easily enough, but I was unable to hollow out thetip section because the diameter was too small. The handle sectionis where a reduction in stiffness will have the greatest effect andreduction in weight will have the least effect. I was also unable toreduce the overall weight by anything approaching 22%. The mostmaterial I was able to remove was half an ounce, in a rod that weighed 4 and a half ounces as a solid rod. That's 11%. My experience with hollow building is this:The first one I built I liked at first. I took it out on the front lawn, testcasted it, and was pleased with the result. It felt faster, springier. I made two more, different lengths, different line weights. The last oneI made hollow was my favorite rod, the Cattanach 7' 4 wt. I thoughtI had this bamboo rodmaking down pat. My favorite rod and now evenbetter. I went to the Sierra Mtns. to my favorite fishing places, andstarted realizing that my casts were falling short of where they usuallywent. My Dad was with me, and he fishes with the first 7' 4wt. Cattanach taper I made - not hollowed out. I borrowed it, and sure enough, my casts were back to where they used to be. I didn't wantto believe it! Hollowing it out was supposed to make it faster, and itcertainly felt faster when I cast it. Faster is supposed to equate tolonger casts (maybe not really, but I thought so at the time). So, whenI got back home I put it through every test I could think of, casting it, hanging weights from the end, pulling the weight down and releasing itto measure how long it takes to stop, etc. In every case the conclusionwas the hollow rod is slower, softer, or flexes more, except when youtake the rod and whip it back and forth. It still seemed faster when I didthat. Hence my conclusion. On shorter or lighter line rods hollowing isn't worth it. Darryl Hayashida from rmoon@ida.net Thu Feb 12 13:30:30 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building Tony I have a few sample sections of Hexagraph rods and they are not solidgraphite. They are a thin sking of graphite fibers over a hard foaminterior. That is they duplicate the method E.C. Powell used for thehollow rods he built. He planed all of the pith away, laminated a pieceof Port orford cedar to the power fiber strip and then hollowed thecedar section. Hexagraph rods are not hollow built, but neither arethey solid graphie. Back in 1985, Jim Green and I were talking and he suggested to me that Imake a hexagonal graphite. His suggestion was to laminate multiplelayers of graphite cloth to build up a thickness of the depth of a halfdiameter of the rod and then to plane the built up strip. I never gotaround to it, and I think that Walton Powell Hexagraphs at first mayhave been solid. At any rate I fished with one he made for The RiverRuns tThrough It when I was an advisor to the producer. The rod wasvery stiff and I found it difficult to even bend it. In all honesty, afew years later Walton let me cast a few of the Hexagraphs he was thenproducing and they were much better. Even APPROACHING bamboo. Ralph PS I have been away for almost a month and I will try to post the BillStanley Favorite tapers I promised so long ago this afternoon. Ralph from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Feb 12 13:44:06 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building Hugh Falkus (ok, I think I got this one right) talked about Hexagraph rodsin his Speycasting book. He had heard that the ferrule was a hex ferrule,and answered the problem of ferrules coming loose during speycasting.Hasanyone seen these hex shapes ferrules? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Ralph W Moon Subject: Re: Hollow buildingDate: Thursday, February 12, 1998 11:16 AM Tony I have a few sample sections of Hexagraph rods and they are not solidgraphite. They are a thin sking of graphite fibers over a hard foaminterior. That is they duplicate the method E.C. Powell used for thehollow rods he built. He planed all of the pith away, laminated a pieceof Port orford cedar to the power fiber strip and then hollowed thecedar section. Hexagraph rods are not hollow built, but neither arethey solid graphie. Back in 1985, Jim Green and I were talking and he suggested to me that Imake a hexagonal graphite. His suggestion was to laminate multiplelayers of graphite cloth to build up a thickness of the depth of a halfdiameter of the rod and then to plane the built up strip. I never gotaround to it, and I think that Walton Powell Hexagraphs at first mayhave been solid. At any rate I fished with one he made for The RiverRuns tThrough It when I was an advisor to the producer. The rod wasvery stiff and I found it difficult to even bend it. In all honesty, afew years later Walton let me cast a few of the Hexagraphs he was thenproducing and they were much better. Even APPROACHING bamboo. Ralph PS I have been away for almost a month and I will try to post the BillStanley Favorite tapers I promised so long ago this afternoon. Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Thu Feb 12 13:46:55 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Magazine sighting Thomas The magazine went to the mail house a week ago last Friday or Saturday.It should be coming very soon. I got an advance copy and it looksgood. The subscription price is $24 Sorry I can't find the unitprice. There is a full half page of your still life though. Looksgreat Ralph from frankc@webspan.net Thu Feb 12 14:01:50 1998 0500 Subject: USED LATHE Just started a search for a used lathe with an 18" to 20" bed. I'vebeen at the internet for a while but most of the lathes listed on theused metalworking machinery sites are large and expensive. I have beenlooking in our local Want Ad Press and the newspapers without any luck.Anyone have any other locations that I can try? from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Feb 12 14:02:22 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id UAA23407 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:02:12 GMT Subject: Re: Hollow building Tony Young wrote: Anyhow, it seems he turned to the dark side trying to replicate thegoodside ofcane with the action and robustness of graphite and this is the questionI'mtrying to ask re hollow building. If hollow building (cane) has any advantages over solid cane, and itseemsas if the advantage is minimal to the point that nobody can realy saywhat isthe reason for making haxagraph rods solid when the extra weight isinvolved?Any reason apart from an experiment taken too far? The fact hexagraphhasn't died off completely makes me wonder.I guess I should try and cast one. I have built and used a 10 Ft. modified hollow/hexagraph type rod. Ireallylike the distance and feel of this experimental. Maybe you would want toinvestthe time & effort to build and try one. Any way here is the method I usedwithgood results, feel free to try it: Pick the rod design you most like to use and make the strips as for a"normal"rod. stop planing at .02 over size and plane away the pith. Use epoxy andlaminate a single strip of graphite tape to each strip where the pith was.Whenthe epxoy is fully cured finish the strips as normal. This gives you stripsthatwill build a "hollow" rod with just a hint of graphite for back bone. finishtherod in your normal way and use a line of the correct normal weight, ie. iftherod you made these strips for would use a five weight line... use a fiveweightline on your experimental rod also. The tip sections will end up with somegraphite left on the tail and the tip may have one or two strands left. Myexperimental rod has landed somewhere around one hundred trout ten ofwhich werein the twenty lb. class. The graphite tape seems to be a good compromiseforhollow construction. I do not use this method on rods shorter than eightfeetbecause you loose the tape in the tip section. Bryant C. from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Thu Feb 12 14:17:15 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 252 0600 Subject: New Bamboo? Would anyone like to share an evaluation of bamboo from orders receivedin the past week or so? Thanks Jim Kubichek from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 12 14:20:43 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA29960 for Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio At 11:07 AM 2/12/98 EST, you wrote:A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3 peice9footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry flyaction.The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, and twotips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyremoved. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish is alligatoredandwill need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediatewraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina of age,butis not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enough now,butmay need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern, againtypical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila, Pa." ,inaddition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me off list. --Tom Tom,Not to be pedantic (or insulting), if the label is REALLY spelledDirig-I-o, I'd give it a pass. It's a counterfeit! Thomas spelled his:"Dirigo", according to Martin Keane's book! (I got beat to the comments onthe Ed/Vince Marinaro interchange--had to throw a little of myself intothisone). Forgive me,Art Port from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Thu Feb 12 14:24:52 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:24:09 -0500 Subject: Re: USED LATHE Frank Caruso wrote: Just started a search for a used lathe with an 18" to 20" bed. I'vebeen at the internet for a while but most of the lathes listed on theused metalworking machinery sites are large and expensive. I have beenlooking in our local Want Ad Press and the newspapers without any luck.Anyone have any other locations that I can try? Keep looking in the want ads. Good lathes with tooling appear from timeto time. You can get some real deals. There are also places that specialize used machines. I know that thereis one in S.E. Jersey that is advertised in the Home Shop Machinistmagazine. (BTW: HSM is a very nice mag!!!) from birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu Thu Feb 12 14:31:03 1998 (echem16392.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu ha011863 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:30:47 -0500 Subject: Block PLanes I am really new to rod making process. I have read about the Stanley 091/2 as the plane of choice. What is the difference between the 09 1/2and the 60 1/2. Can the lower angle plane (60 1/2) be used just as well.I appreciate your help. Seymour Birnbaum from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 12 14:34:45 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00973 for Subject: Re: USED LATHE At 03:03 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:Just started a search for a used lathe with an 18" to 20" bed. I'vebeen at the internet for a while but most of the lathes listed on theused metalworking machinery sites are large and expensive. I have beenlooking in our local Want Ad Press and the newspapers without any luck.Anyone have any other locations that I can try? There's a fellow named Dave Sobel who deals in used machine tooling inAlpine N.J. I can't remember his address or phone no. but he ALWAYS has asmall ad in Home Shop Machinist Magazine (near the back). He has fairprices(which STILL may be more than you want to pay; been there, felt that way!)and the shipping may be prohibitive if you're very far away, but you mightwant to check him out.If you don't get a lathe from him you may be able to get some tooling, forthe one you DO get, from him. Good luck,Art Port from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 12 14:36:24 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics In a message dated 2/12/98 7:26:42 PM, you wrote: Darryl - I am inclined to agree with you on this point. But, hollowing doesopen up some other interesting possibilities. I have handled a few of theWinston hollowbuilts and they have a light feel for their length. You canbuild an 8 1/2 or 9 foot rod that will feel like a 7 1/2 or 8 footer. Yes, youhave to increase the taper to compensate for the loss of power, but youstillend up with less weight.I built a very unusual rod last year following deLespinay's instructionsin TPF and in his book. His approach is to greatly increase diameter, andthenhollow build, producing a very fast taper that is not oppressively heavy. Idoubt that you would like the taper, and I am not recommending it to you,butthe rod is unique and not something you could do without hollow building.There will be more on this in TPF so I am not going to elaborate furtherrightnow. from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 12 14:42:21 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio In a message dated 2/12/98 8:23:58 PM, you wrote: OK- you got me. Sheesh! and I thought I was a nitpicker. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 12 14:55:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building Don,I built 6+ / - 8' ,3 pc. for 7 wgt. Several of 'em were hollow, no dams(Itape the final strips and lay them out and plane the inside vertices 'tiltheplaned flat is 1/2 the outside width). One of the hollow built ones and onlyone would false cast a 7 wf 30' into the backing and still give a fine castat20'. No, I have not been able to duplicate it. I'm still trying.Regards,Hank. from bobpetti@VNET.IBM.COM Thu Feb 12 14:57:13 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 98 15:57:10 EST Subject: Tung Oil Problem? Hello from a _very_ deep lurker and a complete novice in the world ofbamboo fly rods. Late last year, a friend gave me a 9' 3pc bamboo fly rod as a gift. Iguess I had been whining a bit about how much I wanted a bamboo flyrod to fish with, so he decided to donate an old project rod that was inneed of a refinish job. He talked me into doing the refinish job myself. To be honest, I'mglad he did. I learned a lot about bamboo rods before I even removed thefirst snake guide, both from Sinclair's book and the list archives (atreasure chest of information, btw). I've disassembled the rod and stripped off the old finish. After readingthrough the archives, I came to the conclusion that for what will likelybe a one-time-only project, a tung oil finish would be more practicalthan a dip tube and varnish setup. Last weekend, I started the tung oil finish. One coat per day bringsme up to today - four coats applied with a light rub with 0000 steelwool in between each coat. The finish so far is not smooth. I checked the archives again anddiscovered that I should have wiped the wet oil off the rod after ithad set for an hour or so (I'm not a woodworker and I had never workedwith tung oil before)? I just applied the oil, hung the rod sectionvertically, and let it dry overnight. The oil looks very smooth when applied, but the next morning when drythere appear to be very slight "wrinkles" that run the length of thesections. Nothing major, but certainly not the glass smooth finish I'mhoping for. I'm wondering if there is something I can do to fix the finish I'veapplied so far. Stripping and starting over is ok, if that's really theonly way. I'm also wondering about the application and wiping of thetung oil. I was soaking a painter's rag (lint free) with oil and justwiping it on the rod. It seemed to provide good coverage, or so Ithough. Should I wipe the wet oil off (after letting it sit for awhile)with a dry rag? Do I wipe it dry, or just try to get the majority ofthe oil off? Sorry for the novice questions. I'm starting to realize that I'm gettingin over my head. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Bob PettiEndicott, NYbobpetti@vnet.ibm.com from thramer@presys.com Thu Feb 12 14:57:30 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Block PLanes Seymour Birnbaum wrote: I am really new to rod making process. I have read about the Stanley 091/2 as the plane of choice. What is the difference between the 09 1/2and the 60 1/2. Can the lower angle plane (60 1/2) be used just as well.I appreciate your help. Seymour BirnbaumNo. It tends to lift the nodes. It will work but it takes alot ofpractice. I would rather have a cheap #220. A.J.Thramer from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Feb 12 15:02:32 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Ed who? ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: Thomas DirigioDate: Thursday, February 12, 1998 12:37 PM At 11:07 AM 2/12/98 EST, you wrote:A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3peice 9footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry flyaction.The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, andtwotips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyremoved. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish is alligatoredandwill need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediatewraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina ofage, butis not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enoughnow, butmay need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern,again> >typical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila,Pa.", inaddition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me offlist. --Tom Tom,Not to be pedantic (or insulting), if the label is REALLY spelledDirig-I-o, I'd give it a pass. It's a counterfeit! Thomas spelled his:"Dirigo", according to Martin Keane's book! (I got beat to the commentsonthe Ed/Vince Marinaro interchange--had to throw a little of myself intothisone). Forgive me,Art Port from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Feb 12 15:23:35 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 12 Feb 98 16:22:41 EST Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Dirigo is taken from the Maine state motto and is included on the stateflag. I believe in means literally "I direct". The Thomas shop was, ofcourse, located in Bangor Maine. F.E.T. lived dwon the street from me inNewburgh Maine, nearly a century ago. At 03:37 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:At 11:07 AM 2/12/98 EST, you wrote:A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3peice 9footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry flyaction.The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, and twotips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyremoved. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish is alligatoredandwill need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediatewraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina of age,butis not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enough now,butmay need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern,againtypical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila, Pa.", inaddition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me off list.--Tom Tom,Not to be pedantic (or insulting), if the label is REALLY spelledDirig-I-o, I'd give it a pass. It's a counterfeit! Thomas spelled his:"Dirigo", according to Martin Keane's book! (I got beat to the comments onthe Ed/Vince Marinaro interchange--had to throw a little of myself intothisone).Forgive me,Art Port Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Feb 12 15:56:56 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 12 Feb 98 16:56:16 EST Subject: Re: Block PLanes Don and Seymour, The standard 60 1/2 is a low angle plane, I think abouthalf that of a 9 1/2. Most folks use a 9 1/2, because of the better angleof attack. Stanleys are cheaper. I think I've seen them mail order atAlden's (sp?) for about 30, and the Record for 39 from Lee Valley. Recordsare a bit smaller in body, have a slightly better blade, and are morecomfortable to a smaller hand. I find Stanley's ok, but a bit too long formy grip, and don't like the blades side-to-side adjustment much (my rightpinky finger is forever knocking the blade out of square as I plane away).Check WC's book for details on scaper planes like the L/N 212, or see issue123 of Fine Woodworking. Hope that helps. B.03:28 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:I am really new to rod making process. I have read about the Stanley 091/2 as the plane of choice. What is the difference between the 09 1/2and the 60 1/2. Can the lower angle plane (60 1/2) be used just as well.I appreciate your help. Seymour Birnbaum Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from longroge@isu.edu Thu Feb 12 17:42:35 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building TSmithwick@aol.com wrote:I think I would try a solid one first, maybe evendouble built. Robert Schiller's note on his double-built was very helpful. However, Ididn't understand how the double-building eliminated working with the nodes. Isupposethat would be a secondary issue, because the major reason for double building aspeywould be to strengthen the butt section. from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Feb 12 17:48:12 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? In a message dated 98-02-12 16:07:53 EST, you write: Dear Bob You will need to take that wrinkled finish off. And after that, wash it, letit dry, and rub some more oil into it. It sounds like you might be trying to apply too thick a coat. You reallyonlyneed to wipe it down, using a non-fuzzy, line-dried rag and then rub it in,with pressure, until you've covered all the bare bamboo. It will take a fewapplications like this, but each application (I don't even want to call it a"coat") will dry much quicker. Then you can steel-wool it (I use Scotch-Brite pads, the white ones, astheydon't seem to take the previous coat off the corners quite so readily) anddoanother rubdown. After about 6 or 7 reps you'll be ready to wrap. I'm assuming you aretalkingabout some kind of polymerized oil or commercial varnish? If you usepuretung oil, you'll want to let it dry a little longer, but it'll still be a goodfinish, and very easy to repair in any case. That's why I like this finish so much. If properly done (very fine coats)it'll rarely, if ever, chip and any nicks or scratches can be almost invisiblyrepaired with a little steel wool and some more oil, applied just asbefore. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your rod! Davy from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Feb 12 17:55:55 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id AAA17692 for; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:35:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics ---------- Sir D, Don and Hank A few comments from me: First of all I know it is so, that a hollowbuilt rod with a butt enddiamter of 0.300 inches is just some 5% less stiff than a solid rod at thisgiven point. The further up the rod, the smaller the difference instiffnes. Secondly, I stated, that the reduction in weight was not 17%percent for the entire rod. Obviously the the weight saving is reduced, asone nears the tip of the rod. Should I make a guesstimate, I would havesaid some 10% wieght reduction.Sir D: Absolutely no flaming intendedfromme - that's a fact as well. An 11% weight reduction, according to my conclusions, should result in astiffer rod, needing less power to throw a line a given distance. Accodingto the expirience of Don and Sir D, the opposite are facts, where as Hankagrees, likewise based on experience. This creates an interesting, little dilemma. Here we have 3 experiencedrodmakers, all of them Honourable and outstanding citizens. Doing thesamething, they most certainly did not achive the same results. It is 2 - 1 to"the softies" not counting calculations. Where does that leave me?Answer:Stranded - I simply can't explain what's on. Can You? Best regards Carsten from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 12 17:58:03 1998 SAA15580;Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:57:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk George / Mick Hate to say it - but I bought the last of that stock at the Somersetshow - Dennis watchedme do it! It is really pretty stuff. Chris P.S. It called red / black Jasper On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:43:57 EST, DrBamboo@aol.com wrote: Mick;Check with Belvoirdale.He had a stock of old elephant silk.He's listed onthe rodmakers under parts and supplies. George from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:05:36 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? The answers to your questions depend a lot on what kind oftung oil you used. Was it pure tung oil, polymerized tung oil,or tung oil with varnish added (sometimes sold as wipe ontung oil finish). It doesn't sound like it was pure tung oil you used, becauseI've used pure tung oil and was able to wipe the excess offafter letting it hang overnight. The tung oil has to actuallysoak into the bamboo and cure for several days before it"hardens" (it doesn't seem like tung oil ever actually completely hardens). Also you mention a glass smoothfinish - pure tung oil gives you a decidedly matte finishthat in no way would be described as glass smooth.It does look better after the tung oil cures and you waxit. The length wise wrinkles sound like a wipe on varnish -tung oil mix that has been applied too thickly. The varnishskins over, but there is too much volume of liquid under it,and as it continues to dry the surface wrinkles as the liquidunder it shrinks. Steel wool or use 400 or 600 wet dry sandpaper to get the wrinkles out, and apply a very thin coat. Darryl Hayashida from jfoster@gte.net Thu Feb 12 18:07:08 1998 Subject: Re: Block PLanes Robert I have removed the little adjuster thingy from all my stanleys. If youdon't set the clamp screw too tight they can be adjusted with fingerpressure just fine..I also couldn't get them to work at all well withhock blades Jerry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:10:47 1998 Subject: The magazine Well here it is thursday and I haven't seen the magazine yet , maybetomorrow.Mark told me it would be mid-week this week. Any1 got their copy yet?Bret from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 12 18:11:43 1998 Subject: Milward fly rod Hi Guys - A friend at work who knows I'm a bamboo rod addict asked me about arod he has. It's a 90" Milward, I think he said 'Trout Special,' ormaybe 'Troutsman Special.' Anybody know anything about rods made by Milward? Is this where theMilward binder came from? Should he worry about fishing this or is itof limited or modest value? Where do the odd socks go? Did you everwonder how lint manages to accumulate under the bed, even with a bedskirt on it? Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:20:53 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building List,When the hexagraph rods first came out they sent me one to field test. Ihadan 8 wght and I found it to be very heavy and it was like fishing with apoolcue. Used it for a month back here for steelheading and sent it back as abad Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:26:57 1998 Subject: Re: Planes Does any1 else have trouble reading this blue print on black backgroundbesides me?Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:30:35 1998 Subject: Re: Re: USED LATHE There are a few places here in So. Bend that deal in used lathes what doyouwant and how far from SB? from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 12 18:33:26 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? Tung oil is my friend. We understand each other. I never apply morethan one T-H-I-N coat in a 24 hour period. You may need to wait longerif your workshop is cool or humid. If you don't wipe tung oil off to a thin coat, or if you apply a secondcoat before the first has dried, the finish will never dry properlyunderneath, and you will have wrinkles and no end of trouble. Properlyapplied tung oil leaves a beautiful sheen, but isn't glossy. Excepthigh lustre polymerized tung oil, which I consider a varnish. Brian from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 12 18:54:04 1998 TAA28157;Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:54:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod BrianYes it is probably one of Bob's rods - .binder by same name fame.Knowing Bob he would be insulted if your friend did not fish the damn thing! Chris On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:10:08 -0500, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Hi Guys - A friend at work who knows I'm a bamboo rod addict asked me about arod he has. It's a 90" Milward, I think he said 'Trout Special,' ormaybe 'Troutsman Special.' Anybody know anything about rods made by Milward? Is this where theMilward binder came from? Should he worry about fishing this or is itof limited or modest value? Where do the odd socks go? Did you everwonder how lint manages to accumulate under the bed, even with a bedskirt on it? Brian from jczimny@dol.net Thu Feb 12 19:24:11 1998 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Hi Guys - A friend at work who knows I'm a bamboo rod addict asked me about arod he has. It's a 90" Milward, I think he said 'Trout Special,' ormaybe 'Troutsman Special.' Anybody know anything about rods made by Milward? Is this where theMilward binder came from? Should he worry about fishing this or is itof limited or modest value? Where do the odd socks go? Did you everwonder how lint manages to accumulate under the bed, even with a bedskirt on it? BrianBob Milward makes very, very nice rods in Vancouver.John from ramseys@directcon.net Thu Feb 12 19:29:11 1998 zeus.directcon.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13596 for Subject: Re: Milward fly rod In reply to the following by Chris Bogart on 07:55 PM 2/12/98 - 0500;BrianYes it is probably one of Bob's rods - .binder by same name fame.Knowing Bob he would be insulted if your friend did not fish the damn thing! Chris OK, but what about the socks question? Steve from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 12 19:33:15 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA17800 +0000 Subject: Re: Hollow building -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Hollow building However, I didn'tunderstand how the double-building eliminated working with the nodes. Isuppose thatwould be a secondary issue, because the major reason for double buildingaspey would beto strengthen the butt section. Roger: issue. That is why I stated that it was not truly a Double Built in thestrictest sense of the words The primary purpose was to get a good looking outer surface. The nodeworkis eliminated because I just planed the nodes down rather than press themout! I did not worry about the loss of power fibers, the usual issue whenworking on the enamel side of a rod. I sacrificed some of the fibers in thetop part of the strip and replaced them with the fibers in the bottom partof the strip when the two, planed down to the power fibers were joined,prior to planing in the form. Perhaps I could have made that clearer in my message. The result was less work, a stronger rod section, but a heavier one, and abeautiful outer surfaced. The ordinary "double built" was designed for strength as a primary factor.I merely changed the emphasis byplaning down the nodes and making the top section more like a veneer. Iknow that it sounds like a sacrilege to plane away on power fibers but therestitution of the fibers below the planed top part of the strip solves theproblem in a simple and maybe unique way. As the saying goes "Try it, you'll like it". Dick from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 12 19:34:46 1998 Subject: Re: New Bamboo? Jim -There have been a couple of shipments arrive in the past month - theoneyou should be interested in was opened on monday. I expect to see 7bundlesperhaps as soon as tomorrow. I talked with Harold on tuesday and heseemedpleased (finally) Been Down with PneumoniaWayne from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 12 19:41:16 1998 Subject: Re: Planes RO>Does any1 else have trouble reading this blue print on black backgroundRO>besides me?RO>Bret bret, Must be your software. I've got blk on white. Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 12 19:53:01 1998 199820:52:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod That is easy - same place where nodes go. Chris On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:29:04 -0800, Steven and Liisa Ramsey wrote: In reply to the following by Chris Bogart on 07:55 PM 2/12/98 - 0500;BrianYes it is probably one of Bob's rods - .binder by same name fame.Knowing Bob he would be insulted if your friend did not fish the damn thing! Chris OK, but what about the socks question? Steve from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 12 19:59:38 1998 with SMTP id AAA9357 for ;Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:58:59 +0000 Subject: test TAA23933 Sorry folks. I'm having trouble with this lousy pc. Dennis d:-( from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 12 20:07:53 1998 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod John, Thanks. My friend thought that this was an English rod. Had somefunky line designation like ZHCH, or some such. Again, I'm withoutnotes, working from a memory that was severly compromised by collegelife in the '70's. Brian from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Thu Feb 12 20:33:01 1998 (AST) 12 Feb 98 21:38:15 -0500 0500 12 Feb 98 21:38:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Planes Bret what blue print are you talking about. Is it from a site or from thelist. Pls let me knowThanksJohn-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Planes RO>Does any1 else have trouble reading this blue print on blackbackgroundRO>besides me?RO>Bret bret, Must be your software. I've got blk on white. Don Burns from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 12 20:35:36 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA32695 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:35:33 -0500 Subject: Watco Oil Hi All,Anybody use Watco Danish Oil for there rods. I have used it on manywoodworking projects and find it great. The can used to claim that ithas resins in it that harden the wood (like impregnating), but I don'tsee that on the cans anymore???. You can get a great finish by applyingit with 600 wet sand,the fine particles that you sand off fill in thepores in the wood and you get a really smoooooth finish!!. Dave Price (finished my steel forms tonight, 26 hours and I made my owndowel pins for a approx.100 lb. press fit ) from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Feb 12 20:36:10 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics UAA03306 In a message dated 2/12/98 4:01:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk writes: Sir D: Absolutely no flaming intended fromme - that's a fact as well. I never took it as a flame - in fact I'm puzzled by this comment.If you took any of my posts as flames, believe me they weren'tintended as such. This creates an interesting, little dilemma. Here we have 3 experiencedrodmakers, all of them Honourable and outstanding citizens. Doing thesamething, they most certainly did not achive the same results. It is 2 - 1 to"the softies" not counting calculations. Where does that leave me?Answer:Stranded - I simply can't explain what's on. Can You? Where all this leaves you is you have to try it for yourself. Builda hollow rod, and draw your own conclusions. The rod won't beunusable once you finish it, in fact without an identical rod tocompare it to, you probably won't even notice the difference.Again, let me qualify this with in a shorter or lighter line rod.If I ever make a 9 ft. cane rod I'll probably make it hollow inthe butt and mid section. Darryl Hayashida from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Feb 12 21:30:36 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics So,Could anybody conjecture on how a really nice casting Winston taperwouldrespond if built solid? Rob Hoffhines from jczimny@dol.net Thu Feb 12 21:43:05 1998 Subject: Re: Watco Oil David Price wrote: Hi All,Anybody use Watco Danish Oil for there rods. I have used it on manywoodworking projects and find it great. The can used to claim that ithas resins in it that harden the wood (like impregnating), but I don'tsee that on the cans anymore???. You can get a great finish by applyingit with 600 wet sand,the fine particles that you sand off fill in thepores in the wood and you get a really smoooooth finish!!. Dave Price (finished my steel forms tonight, 26 hours and I made my owndowel pins for a approx.100 lb. press fit )Watco is just very thin varnish. Perhaps 90% drying oil and 10% resin.John from jczimny@dol.net Thu Feb 12 21:43:07 1998 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: John, Thanks. My friend thought that this was an English rod. Had somefunky line designation like ZHCH, or some such. Again, I'm withoutnotes, working from a memory that was severly compromised by collegelife in the '70's. BrianHCH might be a 5 double taper designation. The Z I know not what. Bob isoriginally British. Emigrated to Canada some years ago.John from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 12 23:09:09 1998 Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:08:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow building On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Ralph W Moon wrote:I have a few sample sections of Hexagraph rods and they are not solidgraphite. They are a thin sking of graphite fibers over a hard foaminterior. That is they duplicate the method E.C. Powell used for thehollow rods he built. He planed all of the pith away, laminated a pieceof Port orford cedar to the power fiber strip and then hollowed thecedar section. Hexagraph rods are not hollow built, but neither arethey solid graphie. That goes a long way to explaining things. The diagrams I've seen and what I'd heard made me think they were solid built, not 100% graphite but a graphite skin with foam made traingular like conventional cane. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 12 23:14:54 1998 Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:14:41 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Block PLanes On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Seymour Birnbaum wrote: I am really new to rod making process. I have read about the Stanley 091/2 as the plane of choice. What is the difference between the 09 1/2and the 60 1/2. Can the lower angle plane (60 1/2) be used just as well.I appreciate your help. Seymour Birnbaum If you already have the 60 1/2 try it out. Make sure you have a very fine cut and the thinest of openings in the throat and you'll prob find it'll work OK. If you're buying from scratch get the 9 1/2.The Record irons are better than Stanley but not as good as a Hock. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 13 00:41:32 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA9448 +0000 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod Hi, There is (was?) a British brand of bamboo rods called Milward. They showup fairly regularly inthe British sporting auctions at http://www.auctions-on- line.com You may want to go there and check past auction catalogs -- good chanceyoucan find yourfriend's rod (if it is the British Milward). George Bourke from bobpetti@vnet.IBM.COM Fri Feb 13 06:16:44 1998 Fri, 13 Feb 98 07:16:39 EST Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? Darryl writes:The answers to your questions depend a lot on what kind oftung oil you used. Brand name was Formby's. Other than that, I haven't a clue. Also you mention a glass smooth finish - pure tung oil gives you adecidedly matte finish that in no way would be described as glasssmooth. Yes, poor choice of words on my part. The matte finish you describe isexactly what I'm looking for - only smooth. Most of the responses indicate that I should strip and start over, sothat's what I'll do. No problem. I'm in no rush. I'd rather get it doneright than done quickly. Thank you all for your suggestions and encouragement. Back into deep lurk... Bob PettiEndicott, NYbobpetti@vnet.ibm.com from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Feb 13 06:28:11 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? To all - have dipped using Hope's TO Varnish. It dips ok, but is a littleslow to dry/cure. However, in my experience, when it does dry/cure, it isareally tough finish.RTyree from Brandstay@aol.com Fri Feb 13 06:29:04 1998 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod In a message dated 98-02-12 20:30:25 EST, you write: Groobie monsters eat the missing socks. They do it under the bed. Lint istheir.... well, like what mice leave laying around the pantry. ja from Brandstay@aol.com Fri Feb 13 06:29:20 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 98-02-12 20:36:47 EST, you write: Dick did the laminating do away with tearing fivbers where they bendgoing inand out of nodes? or do you straighten before laminating.? ja from harry37@epix.net Fri Feb 13 06:44:18 1998 HAA18240 Subject: Japaning to the list-- Has anyone used cold bluing compounds, such as Birchwood Casey coldblue, or similar products to oxidize nickel silver? It would seem thata prepared product would be easier to use than a "home recipe", but theCarmichael method has a track record-- Any thoughts or experiences from anyone? Greg Kuntz from DrBamboo@aol.com Fri Feb 13 06:59:37 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning The Jim Payne stuff is the best I've ever used.Birchwood Casey is atrial.Sometimeshave to redo 2-3 times and then it may not be even.GEM from Brandstay@aol.com Fri Feb 13 07:13:01 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 98-02-12 15:06:33 EST, you write: Bryant; where did you get the graphte tape? ja from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Feb 13 07:56:14 1998 Subject: Re: Watco Oil In a message dated 2/13/98 2:40:16 AM, you wrote: Dave - I think you will find this too tight to allow easy adjustment. Youshould have a snug, but sliding fit. Congratulations on finishing theproject. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Feb 13 08:10:07 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics In a message dated 2/13/98 3:31:37 AM, you wrote: Rob - Without seeing the taper, it is just conjecture, but if the rod isshortI suspect it will still be nice to cast, and may be a bit stiffer. If it'sover 8 feet, I think you may find weight becoming a problem. from d_price@global2000.net Fri Feb 13 08:10:54 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA22678 for; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:10:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Watco Oil TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/13/98 2:40:16 AM, you wrote: dowel pins for a approx.100 lb. press fit )>> Dave - I think you will find this too tight to allow easy adjustment. Youshould have a snug, but sliding fit. Congratulations on finishing theproject. around 100 lbs. is nothing for a set of screws to move and it ajustslike a dream. Did a some tests before I got started and seems that anyless could allow very slight twisting, and it dosn't take much to throwyou out enough to make tolerances off .001 impossible!!.Dave Price from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Feb 13 08:18:11 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Hollow-build Dynamics I would think a phone call to Winston might get some clarification on this issue. I have always found them to have excellent customer service (at least regarding their graphite...which I really like). At worst it would be a wasted phone call...at best they might at least share some knowledge and experience if not actual secrets...I'll leave this to those that are deep into this issue. I'll just worry about building a basic solid rod for now..... Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Hollow- build Dynamics Author: at tcpgate So,Could anybody conjecture on how a really nice casting Winston taperwouldrespond if built solid? Rob Hoffhines from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Feb 13 08:49:48 1998 Subject: Re: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk Chris-Graham lied! Well mis-spoke :>). Belvoirdale sent me two spools ofred/black jasper last week ...there's still some left. Dennis from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Fri Feb 13 09:27:53 1998 emf h9451015; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:27:43 +0100 16:26:47+0100 Subject: WG: rodmakers gathering HelloMy name is Alex and I am from Europe(Austria)I want to visit the USA for 2-3 weeks in juli or august and I am planing to attend a Rodmakers Gathering.Therefore I should know some dates and contact persones.I prefer to visit a meeting in the northern regiones of the USA.My is favorit is Michigan. By the way I want spend some days withfishing in the USA. I am happy about every information I get. Thanks a lot Alex. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Feb 13 09:40:53 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:10:08 -0500, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Hi Guys - A friend at work who knows I'm a bamboo rod addict asked me about arod he has. It's a 90" Milward, I think he said 'Trout Special,' ormaybe 'Troutsman Special.' Anybody know anything about rods made by Milward? Is this where theMilward binder came from? Should he worry about fishing this or is itof limited or modest value? Brian, Bob Milward does build rods in Vancouver, BC, Canada - last phone # I'vegot for him is 604-988-1958. Give him a shout.Suspect you have a English built Milward rod - not one of Bob Milward rodsof the Milward binder fame in light of the HCH line designation. Don from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 13 09:51:33 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? In a message dated 2/13/98 4:17:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,bobpetti@vnet.IBM.COM writes: Brand name was Formby's. Other than that, I haven't a clue. Formby's is a tung oil - polyurethane varnish mix. I've usedit in the past. Apply a very thin coat and let it dry withouttouching it again. After the initial application it will starttacking up like a varnish. If you go back to it an hourlater and try to wipe off the excess you will have a mess. If what you have on it now is completely dry you can use600 wet dry sandpaper on a sanding block to get rid of thewrinkles, and re-apply over the sanded finish. Darryl Hayashida from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Feb 13 11:10:21 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA13920 for; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:52:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Planes/Finland RO>PS. Things are not that bad at all. After all, we allready have onegoldRO>medal from Nagano, and maybe more is coming. Sorry, Carsten, maybeBjornRO>Daehlie will do better next time ;-) Seppo, Seppo This fellow Bjårn Daehlie is Norwegian. I am danish, like in pastry. Havespend some time finding out, what you meant. I might be slow, thenorwegianis not. He is the skier, who 2 days ago beat the h... out of all thefinnish skiers down in Nagano. Gold medal, I think. :-). Personally, I think all this snow and ice You fellows from the northernparts of Scandinavia seem to enjoy is just a menace, preventing me fromfishing. Here in the southern parts of Scandinavia the season for seatroutin the rivers start at the middle of january. Flyfishing, my friend, noticefishing. How do You like that? :-) Best regards Carsten from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Fri Feb 13 11:45:40 1998 (AST) 13 Feb 98 12:50:51 -0500 0500Received: from jmckinnon.iti.ca by ottawa.iti.ca (Mercury 1.31);13 Feb 98 12:50:14 - 0500 Subject: Fergus Ont get together boundary="----=_NextPart_000_023A_01BD387D.ED9256A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01BD387D.ED9256A0 could Ted Knott get in touch with me off list about this eventThanksJohn F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~jmckinnon.students ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01BD387D.ED9256A0 = about this eventThanksJohn F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~j=mckinnon.students ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01BD387D.ED9256A0-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Feb 13 13:07:54 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA23922 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id NAA28197 for ; Fri, 13 Feb1998 Subject: Paul Young story Those of you who are fans of Paul Young rods will enjoy this reminisence: http://www.mich.com/~anglers/rw19/rw19me.htm ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 13 15:08:59 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20359 for Subject: Re: Milward fly rod At 08:54 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote: That is easy - same place where nodes go. Chris On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:29:04 -0800, Steven and Liisa Ramsey wrote: In reply to the following by Chris Bogart on 07:55 PM 2/12/98 - 0500;BrianYes it is probably one of Bob's rods - .binder by same name fame.Knowing Bob he would be insulted if your friend did not fish the damn thing! Chris OK, but what about the socks question? Steve Oh, so they're "filed away"?Art from gjflyfsh@juno.com Fri Feb 13 16:44:45 1998 17:43:21 EST Subject: THIS IS JUST A TEST DO NOT READ TESTjerry _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Feb 13 16:59:15 1998 Subject: bamboo I have been asked by several to report on the latest bamboo arrivial. Igotbundles of each size today - comments The 2 - 2 1/2" is the same quality that I have recieved in the past -some marks - few (if any) burns - a bit green but a little sunlight withdueboth the bamboo and myself good. All usable to make rods with.The 1 3/4" - 2" fewer marks and only one or two burns in 2 bundles -still a few marks - again a bit greenish - one odd small one in one bundle(itslipped in some how - good heft - a bit of mold on surface but split lookedbright and fresh ( no greying) again each culm could make a rod. Wayne from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Feb 13 17:01:32 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07128; Fri, 13 Feb 199818:01:08 Subject: Re: Watco Oil At 09:35 PM 2/12/98 -0800, David Price wrote:Hi All,Anybody use Watco Danish Oil for there rods. I have used it on manywoodworking projects and find it great. The can used to claim that ithas resins in it that harden the wood (like impregnating), but I don'tsee that on the cans anymore???. You can get a great finish by applyingit with 600 wet sand,the fine particles that you sand off fill in thepores in the wood and you get a really smoooooth finish!!. Dave Price (finished my steel forms tonight, 26 hours and I made my owndowel pins for a approx.100 lb. press fit ) Yes, Watco is good stuff. I use it as a first coat. Then I wipe on Helmsmanthinned with Watco; (watco:varnish ratio), 75:25, 50:50 and 25:75, eachbeing a separate coat with complete drying and a light rub with 0000steelwool between. Each coat is wiped 10-20 min after application. I use freshpaper towels (low lint) and wipe before the varnish gets tacky. Finally,2-3 days after the last coat I rub out with pumice in oil followed byrottenstone and water. I wrap the rod after finishing and use helmsmanthinned with Watco 25:75 on the wraps. I think, but can't prove, that usingthe thinned varnish gives better penetration to the blank I have restoredthree rods this way and the finsh seems to be durable. Because it is wipedafter each coat, the finish is rather thin, "close to the wood."You can use as many coats as you wish and build the finish thicker. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 13 17:12:03 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Don,I don't have a Myford,I have a south bend bench lathe.It is quiteold,but still works good. The only thing that I did to improve it's accuracy.wastobuy a 6in.- six jaw - Zero set Chuck. The chuck cost $1200.00 , but you can'tget get any closer to " 0 " tolerance with any other chuck. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 13 17:38:16 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning Greg,All of the gun blues, aluminum blacks, etc.,don't work worth a damon Nickel Silver. The only solution I know of that is made exclusivly forNickel Silver and WORKS,is Payne's Original Formula. I make and sell this in two once bottles for $25.00. This is enough to do fifty rods or more. E-Mail me back your mailing address if you need any more info.I willsend you a brochure. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Feb 13 17:43:25 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? I too have used Formby's Tung Oil finish with good results. Because it's sothin, you need 5-6 coats. Darryl's instructions are correct -- let eachcoatdry at least 24 hours then sand down lightly and go over the rod with atackcloth. --Rich from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 13 18:03:55 1998 Subject: Re Solid glass tips and Eng. Bronzed Tip Tops Just in case anyone is interested. I have approx. 300 solid glass tipsectionsI'm looking to get rid of. I use them mainly to repair broken graphite rodtipsections. By installing a section of the glass tip into the broken graphitetip.They can also be used to make Ice fishing rods or to replace a brokenglasstip section on an old glass rod.There are three different sizes: 31 in. length 24 in. length39 in.length.143 butt.178 butt .174 butt.068 tip.071 tip .068 tip I'm selling these for $.50 each/min. order of ten tips.Plusshipping.If anyone wants to buy all of them,I'll give you a good price. I've also got some tip tops that I bronzed plated last year and didn'tnoticethat they had the larger loop untill after they were plated.Any one who likes the larger loop will get a steal at $.75 each,reg price$2.00ea. I have 61-size 422-size 4 1/296-size 5Anyone interested, E-Mail me. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from tball@mail.portup.com Fri Feb 13 18:18:47 1998 Subject: Surf Rod Redo's boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD389A.EFFE9580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD389A.EFFE9580 A customer has asked me to redo some surf rods for him. He has =inherited these from his parents who were charter members of a Casting =Club from somewhere in the East Coast. Some are fiberglass, some are =bamboo and one appears to be a greenhart. He brought me 10 rods and 8 =handles. Doesn't really expect to use these for resale or for =historical preservation. "See if you can get some of these to be =servicable and use the rest for scavenging for line guides etc." Rods =are from 5' to 7'3" and the handles are from 2' to 2'6". Rods have male =ferrules on their butt and the handles have a combination reelseat and =female ferrule. I need help locating some line guides, male ferrules w/ =matching female ferrules with reelseats attached to put on the various =pieces. Ferrules are about the .900 ID size. I will be very grateful = restore these rods for use or at least for wall hangers for him to brag =about.Thanks for all the help being furnished on the web. Keep up the = Tom from Trout Lake ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD389A.EFFE9580 A customer has asked me to redosome = servicable and use the rest for scavenging for line guides = have male ferrules on their butt and the handles have a combination = matching female ferrules with reelseats attached to put on the about. = Tom from Trout Lake ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD389A.EFFE9580-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 13 18:31:21 1998 Subject: RE:Surf Rod Redo's RO>A customer has asked me to redo some surf rods for him. He hasinherited thRO> Thanks for all the help being furnished on the web. Keep up thegreat wRO> Tom from Trout Lake Tom, Classic Angler had some large ferrules and such in their catalogs andon-line at their url: http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm Don't know if any are that large. Don Burns from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 13 18:32:26 1998 Subject: Re: Surf Rod Redo's Tom,I may be able to help you with the ferrules and reel seats ( custommaking them, to fit your rods ) but, the cost may be alot more than the rods areworth. If all other channels fail, let me know. I'll see what I can do for you. Dave LeClair from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Feb 13 22:41:36 1998 Subject: Re: bamboo I just got a bale of the larger poles today, It all looks useable, one stickhad a small growers mark two had some burns in the butt and very fewleafnodes. The was some exterior mold on the centers of a few poles where aircouldn't get into the bale, but it wiped off easily. Only one bad water marksmack on the middle of one pole...so I cut out 10" out of the middle of thepole-no problem. Some poles felt extrordinarily heavy (!) and like I said allseem usable. Rob Hoffhines from cphisey@neca.com Fri Feb 13 23:11:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re Solid glass tips and Eng. Bronzed Tip Tops At 07:00 PM 2/13/98 EST, you wrote:Just in case anyone is interested. I have approx. 300 solid glass tipsectionsI'm looking to get rid of. I use them mainly to repair broken graphite rodtipsections. By installing a section of the glass tip into the brokengraphitetip.They can also be used to make Ice fishing rods or to replace a brokenglasstip section on an old glass rod.There are three different sizes: 31 in. length 24 in. length39 in.length.143 butt.178 butt .174 butt.068 tip.071 tip .068 tip I'm selling these for $.50 each/min. order of ten tips.Plusshipping.If anyone wants to buy all of them,I'll give you a good price. I've also got some tip tops that I bronzed plated last year and didn'tnoticethat they had the larger loop untill after they were plated.Any one who likes the larger loop will get a steal at $.75 each,regprice$2.00ea. I have 61-size 422-size 4 1/296-size 5Anyone interested, E-Mail me. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room Hi Dave,Those tip tops sound like just the ticket to go along with the bronze wire Igot with the snake maker.Could you send me 20 of Size #4, 20 of Size #4.5and 15 of #5 . Also while we are at it 4 packs size.024 bronzed wirepacks,4of the .026 bronzed wire packs,and 2 of the bronzed .029 packs.E-mail meifyou can do,you should still have my credit card #.Charlie Hisey from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 13 23:54:43 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA12030 +0000 Subject: Re: bamboo Is that Demarest bamboo? George Bourke ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: bambooDate: Friday, February 13, 1998 2:55 PM I have been asked by several to report on the latest bamboo arrivial.I gotbundles of each size today - comments The 2 - 2 1/2" is the same quality that I have recieved in the past-some marks - few (if any) burns - a bit green but a little sunlight withdueboth the bamboo and myself good. All usable to make rods with.The 1 3/4" - 2" fewer marks and only one or two burns in 2 bundles-still a few marks - again a bit greenish - one odd small one in onebundle (itslipped in some how - good heft - a bit of mold on surface but splitlookedbright and fresh ( no greying) again each culm could make a rod. Wayne from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 14 07:14:32 1998 0700 Subject: Richard Tyree Richard, Would you email me directly and put in body of note your email address -your mailer clears it and your old address doesn't work. Thanx, Don from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Feb 14 07:46:45 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Art Port wrote: Tom,Not to be pedantic (or insulting), if the label is REALLY spelledDirig-I-o, I'd give it a pass. It's a counterfeit! Thomas spelled his:"Dirigo", according to Martin Keane's book! (I got beat to the comments onthe Ed/Vince Marinaro interchange--had to throw a little of myself intothisone).Forgive me,Art Port Art's right, Tom. Take a look at the Maine State flag.George from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat Feb 14 07:49:23 1998 Subject: R: rodmakers gathering Hello Alex,I read your E-amil message on the rodmakers listserver.I am an Italian Rodmakers lister, my name is Marco Boretti, and I live inthe north of Italy, and I came many time per year in Austria, for fishingand for business, besides I am a friend and collector of Walter Brunner.If you want to contact me for future meeting, pls., send E-mail messageandI resend to you my compleate addres. Sincerely,Marco ----------Da: Christoph A: 'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu' Data: venerdá 13 febbraio 1998 16.26 HelloMy name is Alex and I am from Europe(Austria)I want to visit the USA for 2-3 weeks in juli or august and I am planingto attend a Rodmakers Gathering.Therefore I should know some dates and contact persones.I prefer to visit a meeting in the northern regiones of the USA.My is favorit is Michigan. By the way I want spend some days withfishing in the USA. I am happy about every information I get. Thanks a lot Alex. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 14 08:54:47 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Tom,I'm trying to determine the beginnings of a Thomas Dirigo"trademark".Does your friend's rod have a thin black silk band in the middle of thered ferrule wraps (reminiscient of Carrie Steven's streamer fly heads)?Thanks,Reed from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Feb 14 09:12:11 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning I just tried the kodak rapid fixer method of darkening NS. The colorturns a sort of pewter, not real dark. Anybody have any knowledge aboutthis method? Brian from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 10:14:15 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio In a message dated 2/14/98 1:48:55 PM, you wrote: Boy, I got all you Maineiacs up in arms this time! from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 10:21:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Thomas Dirigio In a message dated 2/14/98 2:59:11 PM, you wrote: No- just red thread on the ferrules. The rod looks like the third one fromthetop on page 84 of Keane's book, except that the real seat is all NS. There isa 1/4 inch band at the cork check, and 8 trim bands. If I had to guess Iwouldput the rod about 1910, but that is just a guess. The stripping guide is asnake guide. This is the first Thomas I have seen that on. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 10:35:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japaning In a message dated 2/14/98 3:18:07 PM, you wrote: Brian - Polish off what you have and try again. The stuff is not asagressiveas the Payne solution. You have to start with very fresh, clean metal. Iusually spin the part in a drill and polish with very fine steel wool. Don'ttouch the part afterwards. Dip in solution A, and then in solution B. Rinseinwater. If it is not dark enough repeat the process, but never dip from B toAwithout rinsing, or you will "kill" solution A. If you keep going you will getthe blue color. I like the mottled Bronze blue and stop there usually. Somealloys react faster than others, sometimes just solution A is enough, butitshould work with any NS alloy. Coat with lacquer or whatever ASAP, asthecolor will fade otherwise. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Feb 14 10:47:22 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/14/98 1:48:55 PM, you wrote: Boy, I got all you Maineiacs up in arms this time! Not really. We just never miss a chance to ride someone, even a friend.Goes with the ice and snow I suppose.George from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 11:33:12 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16947 for Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio At 11:11 AM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 2/14/98 1:48:55 PM, you wrote: Boy, I got all you Maineiacs up in arms this time! Not so Tom,I merely used to summer in ME, and I don't think I EVER saw the State Flag(unless it was at 65 mph on the ME Pike). I just couldn't resist a littlefun with an unusual word. Hell, I learned what it means through being awiseass Noo Yawkah and pointing out your foible. Everybody loins yasumpin'new ev'ry day right? Fuhgeddaboutit,Art from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 11:39:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA18339 for Subject: Re: Japaning At 10:10 AM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:I just tried the kodak rapid fixer method of darkening NS. The colorturns a sort of pewter, not real dark. Anybody have any knowledge aboutthis method? Brian Brian,After reading your post and Tom's reply I had my interest piqued.Where can I find the methodology of using the Rapidfix procedure? I think Imay already have enough of the chemicals to try that one at no cost. I don'trecall seeing it in Wayne's or Hoagy's book, but it's been awhile since Iread either of them cover-to-cover. I'm just rehoning my blades after ahiatus of 10 years or so.Thanks,Art Port from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Feb 14 14:02:17 1998 Subject: Bamboo magazine Dave,Here it is saturday and no bamboo magazine. The only things of interestwereThePlaning Form newsletter and VS swimsuit catalog for my wife.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Feb 14 14:08:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Milward fly rod Brian,I don't know anything about Milward rods but you brought up someinterestingpoints otherwise. Something I always wondered about was, if the littleblackbox in airplanes is made of indestructable material why don't they makethewhole plane out of it?Bret from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sat Feb 14 14:32:21 1998 doing-bs Subject: nice comments on mag (fwd) Got another forward from FF@ regarding the Cane rod magazine. Don'tknowif this guy bought his at a shop or got it by subscription. Thomas PenroseBend, OR From: Steve Stillabower Subject: The Bamboo Fly Rod Hi All, O.K., I'm not a reviewer, but I got my first issue yesterday, and had tocomment on it. I like it. Only 46 pages, but a lot of good articles and info. An essay byA.K. Best on why he fishes bamboo and a how to on hackeling dries (heshouldknow). Lot of internet URL's, couple pages worth, of bamboo relatedsites. All in all, a very nice effort. Hope it is not like my dry flies andfloats Steve from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Feb 14 14:41:25 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning Check out page 117 of the Garrison-Carmichael SECOND ed. It works forme!! from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 14 15:03:13 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Tom,Thanks, that helps me somewhat in dating that wrap. I have a 1930'svintage Dirigo and a 1947 Dirigo; both have that accent wrap. So I'venarrowed it down to 20 years.What about the Thomas hookkeeper, built onto the winding check?Doesyour friend's rod have it?Best regards,Reed P.S. - I like F.E. THomas rods. from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Feb 14 15:15:27 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine Got mine today.I read it cover to cover and it's okay. I would liketo see more stuff on rod building, but that's probablyjust because that's where my interest is. Darryl Hayashida from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Sat Feb 14 15:37:22 1998 8.7/8.7) idQAA21524 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:35:24 - Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine Still nothing here in northeastern PA : from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 16:17:37 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Thomas Dirigio In a message dated 2/14/98 9:08:02 PM, you wrote: No hook keeper at all on the rod. Chris B Stopped by yesterday and cast therod. He told me you would have liked it. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 16:33:02 1998 Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener Art - Even though youse messed with a Joisey guy, I will give you a break.Thechemicals come marked just as I described to Brian. A large bottle ofsolutionA, and a small bottle of solution B. Pour some of each into a smallerresealable bottle and follow the directions I gave Brian. Solution B willdevelop a milky precipitate, but will work several times anyway. Discardsolution A and use new stuff each time. from thramer@presys.com Sat Feb 14 17:06:35 1998 0000 Subject: Coating For Blued Ferrules After starting a line of resin finished rods I had the problem of nolonger being able to coat the ferrules with varnish as was my practice.A neat trick that Chrid McDowell came up with was to wax the rods withpaste floor wax that contained a high percentage of carnauba.Much moreresistant to wear than it sounds and I find that many people appreciatethe patina that the rtesulting finish will eventually give to theferrules. The varnish does not stick so I save the wax for last.Chris & I have had good luck with Payne formula from the rod room andOspho Blue. The Ospho is more difficult to use, gives a greyer (sp)color but is quite durable on its own without protective coatings.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Feb 14 17:13:53 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine RO> Still nothing here in northeastern PA :usually gets it a day later than the rest of the world. Maybe theRO>postal folks at my P.O. are enjoying my magazines, etc.???RO>Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm Didn't get to me, just north of Los Angeles! Don B. from thramer@presys.com Sat Feb 14 17:16:04 1998 0000 Subject: Plane Waxing I have given some thought to the plane waxing discussion. I still havegrave reservations about the wax transfering to the stick and causingpoor glue adhesion. Three solutions I have come up with:1) Use an unwaxed plane for the final 1-2 passes on each side thusinsuring that the sticks do not have a wax coating.2) As a pipesmoker the finish on a quality pipe is 100% carnauba wax.True carnauba cannot be applied any other way than by buffing it in asit is too hard. I believe that a negligable amount of wax would betranferred to the stick. It is difficult to appreciate how hard carnaubais. Find a pipe and see if you can scratch it! As an aside I have alwaysthought that carnauba would be a great way to finish reel seat fillers.3) Buy a beveling machine A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 17:21:05 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07848 for Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener At 05:32 PM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote:Art - Even though youse messed with a Joisey guy, I will give you a break.Thechemicals come marked just as I described to Brian. A large bottle ofsolutionA, and a small bottle of solution B. Pour some of each into a smallerresealable bottle and follow the directions I gave Brian. Solution B willdevelop a milky precipitate, but will work several times anyway. Discardsolution A and use new stuff each time. Tom,Not to put too fine a point on it----WHAT CHEMICALS?????I thought we were talking about Kodak's Rapid Fixer. I'm a photographer (byhobby- not profession) and I actually have some of the Kodak Rapid Fix.Theyain't no part A and part B; it's a fixer for developing film and prints. Ifall you have is some magic liquids in two jars I'm right back where Istarted. I'm not trying to cut one of the other fellows on the list out ofhis profit, I just happen to HAVE what it sounds like you used in mybasement right now! (Solution B sounds like a developer to me,precipitatingout a milky residue)Not too long ago (in dog years) Eric Leiser was touting using"photo-dyeing" for turning cheap Indian necks into high quality duns etc.After reading his recipes (and not yet in possession of my own darkroom) Idecided that you hadda be NUTS to go to that kind of trouble for a neck (notto even consider the cost of failures in the experimental stages!) So whenyou mentioned the Rapid Fix by name, I thought maybe this would be alittlesimpler than the necks (now that I Do have the darkroom). In the past Ijustfigured nickel silver was good enough without screwing with its finish. guys in that boat race a century or so ago.Art from jbr842@airmail.net Sat Feb 14 18:26:54 1998 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.237) with smtp for 0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Dave,Here it is saturday and no bamboo magazine. The only things of interestwereThePlaning Form newsletter and VS swimsuit catalog for my wife.Bret Just received my copy in the mail. I would suppose others who ordered itshould receive theirs soon. Hope this encourages those who wait withbaited breath... Jim Bryan from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Feb 14 18:30:06 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 98-02-12 02:47:57 EST, you write: Tony I'd be afraid any comparison would be unfair, because I did'nt have the hexlong enough or under any variety of conditions. I will tell you that the hexhad more of a bamboo feel than my Sage rods. But it felt heavy, you know?Not lively like a bamboo and not quick like graphite. Make any sense? Maybe I'm being shallow, but the one I tried out (and a couple others I'vejust played with and not even strung up) didn't have enough attraction formeto prompt any further investigation. Although I still have- and occasionally use- a couple of expensive graphiterods, I frankly don't enjoy them enough to consider adopting any more tokeepthem company. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but there it is. Davy from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 14 19:10:35 1998 Subject: Books To All Bill Finks awaited offering of his personal sporting book collection isnow posted on the home page, with a link to the list. click on thetext.. http//home1.gte.net/jfoster.index.htm Please carry the business off the listproc, no cheapos, I've included anactive e-mail address with the list. Regards Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 14 19:33:52 1998 Subject: Re: Books OOOps don't even know my own phone no. http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm sorry Jerry from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 19:48:24 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA16085 for Subject: Re: Books At 07:32 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:OOOps don't even know my own phone no. http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm sorry JerryJerry,Don't worry about it. I'm sure we all have your site bookmarked already.I've already checked the list and it's impressive. My only question is: whycouldn't I click the other URL? The one in this e-mail is html compatible(or whatever-the-hell-I'm-trying-to-say) but the other one wasn't! Whycome??? Huh?>Art from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Feb 14 19:54:27 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Got mine today.I read it cover to cover and it's okay. I would liketo see more stuff on rod building, but that's probablyjust because that's where my interest is. I agree Darryl. My only other complaint would be that the pictures werenot captioned. If I'm looking at photos I would like to know who thepeople are, even if I don't know who the people are. Regards, Steve from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Feb 14 19:59:31 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? Dear Listers Has anyone considered building a UV drying box? I realize (boy, do I) that it takes a little while to get to the point whereyou start varnishing your product, but this will help, especially if you areusing a slow-drying product and/or are dipping. My box is way larger than would be necessary for rods, as I built it bigenough for a 'cello. Just cobble together an upright plywood box about afootor so higher than your longest rod section is long. Leave about a foot-and-a-half clearance (total width) and vent it real good on top. All you should need is one (max. two) four-foot fixtures and some tin foillining. Maybe cost you about twenty potatoes excluding the bulb(s) which Ibought so long ago the price would be meaningless even if I couldremember it. All this may be old news, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so here it is, sceptical and feared that this might adversely effect the varnish'slongevityor the tone quality of the instrument. I found that they have long been incommon use by highly regarded instrument makers here and in Europe and Ihavenever heard a hint that this process has any ill effects whatever. I was inmy trying-to-find-the-magic-formula phase when I built mine and someof theconcoctions I applied would probably be tacky twenty years on without theUVbox. Also, I've been using Tru-Oil by Birchwood Casey and like it a lot. Isanybody else using it? Any problems? Davy from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 14 20:29:33 1998 Subject: Re: Books Content-Type: Art I forgot the : http:// thats why i resent it, sometimes I get the feeling some of us don't knowBOOKMARK regardsJerry from cphisey@neca.com Sat Feb 14 21:27:38 1998 Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener At 06:38 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:At 05:32 PM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote:Art - Even though youse messed with a Joisey guy, I will give you abreak. Thechemicals come marked just as I described to Brian. A large bottle ofsolutionA, and a small bottle of solution B. Pour some of each into a smallerresealable bottle and follow the directions I gave Brian. Solution B willdevelop a milky precipitate, but will work several times anyway.Discardsolution A and use new stuff each time. Tom,Not to put too fine a point on it----WHAT CHEMICALS?????I thought we were talking about Kodak's Rapid Fixer. I'm a photographer(byhobby- not profession) and I actually have some of the Kodak Rapid Fix.Theyain't no part A and part B; it's a fixer for developing film and prints. Ifall you have is some magic liquids in two jars I'm right back where Istarted. I'm not trying to cut one of the other fellows on the list out ofhis profit, I just happen to HAVE what it sounds like you used in mybasement right now! (Solution B sounds like a developer to me,precipitatingout a milky residue)Not too long ago (in dog years) Eric Leiser was touting using"photo-dyeing" for turning cheap Indian necks into high quality duns etc.After reading his recipes (and not yet in possession of my own darkroom)Idecided that you hadda be NUTS to go to that kind of trouble for a neck(notto even consider the cost of failures in the experimental stages!) So whenyou mentioned the Rapid Fix by name, I thought maybe this would be alittlesimpler than the necks (now that I Do have the darkroom). In the past Ijustfigured nickel silver was good enough without screwing with its finish. guys in that boat race a century or so ago.Art Art,I also am a photographer(by profession),what you need is Kodak RapidFixerwith Hardener,it is a two part fixer.It is used for both film and prints.Thepart B contains sulfuric acid which is the hardening agent.It comes inliquid form with parts A$B. I get mine in 5 gallon cubes,but the cat#of thequart size is 146- 4106 (this is about 5yrs old).Hope this helps with yourquestion(Kodak also makes a powder mix called rapid fix,you need theliquid.Charlie Hisey from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 21:49:35 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA22112 for Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener At 10:27 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:At 06:38 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:At 05:32 PM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote:Art - Even though youse messed with a Joisey guy, I will give you abreak. Thechemicals come marked just as I described to Brian. A large bottle ofsolutionA, and a small bottle of solution B. Pour some of each into a smallerresealable bottle and follow the directions I gave Brian. Solution B willdevelop a milky precipitate, but will work several times anyway.Discardsolution A and use new stuff each time. Tom,Not to put too fine a point on it----WHAT CHEMICALS?????I thought we were talking about Kodak's Rapid Fixer. I'm a photographer(byhobby- not profession) and I actually have some of the Kodak Rapid Fix.Theyain't no part A and part B; it's a fixer for developing film and prints. Ifall you have is some magic liquids in two jars I'm right back where Istarted. I'm not trying to cut one of the other fellows on the list out ofhis profit, I just happen to HAVE what it sounds like you used in mybasement right now! (Solution B sounds like a developer to me,precipitatingout a milky residue)Not too long ago (in dog years) Eric Leiser was touting using"photo-dyeing" for turning cheap Indian necks into high quality duns etc.After reading his recipes (and not yet in possession of my owndarkroom) Idecided that you hadda be NUTS to go to that kind of trouble for a neck(notto even consider the cost of failures in the experimental stages!) Sowhenyou mentioned the Rapid Fix by name, I thought maybe this would be alittlesimpler than the necks (now that I Do have the darkroom). In the past Ijustfigured nickel silver was good enough without screwing with its finish. youseguys in that boat race a century or so ago.Art Art,I also am a photographer(by profession),what you need is Kodak RapidFixerwith Hardener,it is a two part fixer.It is used for both film and prints.Thepart B contains sulfuric acid which is the hardening agent.It comes inliquid form with parts A$B. I get mine in 5 gallon cubes,but the cat#ofthequart size is 146- 4106 (this is about 5yrs old).Hope this helps with yourquestion(Kodak also makes a powder mix called rapid fix,you need theliquid.Charlie Hisey Charlie,Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize there was a liquid; theignorance of the dilletante I guess. I'll have to check my local photosupplier and see if it's worth getting a quart for this purpose. If it hasany kind of shelf life I'll probably be better off just getting somethingthat's dedicated for the ferrules (and comes in 1 or 2 oz bottles)!Again, thanks,Art from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Feb 14 22:36:38 1998 Subject: ns darkening I bought some rapid fixer from REC components, and they directed me topour solution A into a 9" GLASS pie pan tocover the parts, and then add 2 caps of the B part and stir. Then leave it alone for ten hours. What you get is jello with the parts in it anoverall nice, hard pewter color. Tried using just the A and then justthe B parts, and on some hardware (Bellinger) it works great and almostturns egg plant purple. Baily Woods ferrules just don't seem to want to take that dark color with this method. I'm going to try some of DaveLeC.'s Payne Formula, though it sounds like the price went up! . .."Brian from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Feb 15 00:24:07 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? DAVY, I,M NEW AT THIS GAME AND DOING ALLOT OF EXPERIMENTING WITH VARIOUSFINISHES.NEVER HEARD OF A UV BOX. WHAT DOES IT DO AND HOW DOES IT WORK? MARK HALLOWELL from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Feb 15 00:32:17 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine WHAT IS BAMBOO MAG? I'M THE NEW GUY ON THE BLOCK. ALSO I'M GOINGTO ENGLANDSOON AND IF YOU OR ANYONE NEEDS ANYTHING, IE ROD PARTS ETC JUST LETME KNOW MARK HALLOWELL from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Feb 15 01:38:30 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? Dear Mark Sorry, I could have been a little clearer with my last posting. A UV (ultraviolet) box is just a box in which to dry your varnish morequickly. It has one or more fluorescent light fixtures with ultraviolettubes. One thing I should have mentioned is that my box, in the interest of beingcheap, has had all but one light fixture unplugged for rod finishing. Itherefore hooked up a little drying motor to keep the rod sections movingandavoid any unevenness. The box makes a huge difference, especially with high quality varnisheswhichare always slow drying if they are any good. Depending on your varnish,youshould be able to cut maybe 75% off your drying time. Feel free to mail me direct if you have specific questions. Davy from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Feb 15 02:04:01 1998 ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:03:51 +1300 Subject: Re: color preserver-three in one Poly-Varnish-Eng. BronzedGuides. Dave .. could you plese send me a brochure . I would also be interested in the wirethat you use for the Englishbronzed guides . I mainly restore old englishrods and a lot of them have the bronxed guides thanks iank At 09:49 PM 30/01/98 EST, you wrote:John, thanks for the nice words.I'm glad you like my poly-varnish.I stillsell it in one once bottles for $2.50. I've got a new brochure beingprinted.Newitems.I'm also going to keep selling my English Bronzed Guides.I was going todropthem,but too many guys still want them ,so i'll keep them comming. If anyone wants one of my new brochures,just E-mail me and I willsendyou out one. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Feb 15 06:42:05 1998 Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:41:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 FLYROD777@aol.com wrote: WHAT IS BAMBOO MAG? I'M THE NEW GUY ON THE BLOCK. ALSO I'M GOINGTO ENGLANDSOON AND IF YOU OR ANYONE NEEDS ANYTHING, IE ROD PARTS ETC JUSTLET ME KNOW MARK HALLOWELL Mark,welcome aboard, but PLEASE STOP YELLING. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Feb 15 07:06:47 1998 Subject: Elephant Silk Thanks for info HAA02370 To Dennis, Don and George. Thanks for the info about Belvoirdale,I have mailed him this morning to enquire about his stock of silk. I havejust had a thought about maybe twisting two different colours of my flytying silk together to see if this has the same effect. Any I will let youknow about the results if you are interested, because the twistingcolouredeffect of the Elephant silk I think, really set off a bamboo rod very well. Regards Mick Woodruff. from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 08:07:06 1998 Subject: leader faq Jerry;Where is the leader faq these days? All I seem to get is HTTP 404 notfound. If this faq is no longer available, does any one have a good leaderformula for fishing #26 dry flys with a 5 wt.? ThanksJohn Channer from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Feb 15 08:54:02 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio TSmithwick@aol.com wrote:No hook keeper at all on the rod. Chris B Stopped by yesterday and casttherod. He told me you would have liked it.Tom,As you know, the first tools Chris made in his new shop were virtualthumbscrews; he uses these to torture me with rods. I'm sure I would like the rod. Unfortunately, I already have a Dirigoof that length and line weight, (one of my favorite rods) so I can'tjustify a second, even at such a good price. Doubtless, this rod has adifferent action (Thomas produced each model in 5+ actions) than mine...No, I just blew my rod budget on an 8' Dirigo (which Chris would love). Chris,I picked up two good silk lines last week, one is a very pretty amber4+DT that is ready to test drive on my new rod. I used Albolene insteadof Mucilin, just to see the difference. A very nice feel, shouldn'tleave the guides dirty, and keeps my hands soft and clean. Best regards,Reed from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 15 09:03:53 1998 Subject: Re: leader faq John Look under the software icon and download one ( depending on the kind ofpc you have ) of Brcue Conner's leader maker tools. you can do ityourself..or you can use his program online..same page regards Jerry from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 15 09:37:02 1998 Subject: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener Art- The product is Kodak catalog # 146 4106. Solution A (fixer)containsAmmonium thiosulfate, sodium acetate, boric acid and acetic acid.Solution B(hardener) contains sulphuric acid and aluminum sulfate. I am not aphotographer and that is all I can tell you.That island you live on, would that be Liberty Island, where youse guys putupthat statue that shows it's butt to Joisey City, or would that be EllisIsland, or would that be some other island youse swiped from us?I live in Wenonah NJ, near Philadelphia. from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 09:47:09 1998 Subject: leader faq Jerry;Thanks for the info, you must have the patience of a saint.I promise, nexttime I will look before I ask.John Channer from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun Feb 15 09:56:02 1998 Subject: books Dear Sirs,Since it is on everyones mind (lusting after Mr. Fink's books) I haveaninquiry about a book I just found by George and Jacques Herter. The titleis SECRET FRESH AND SALT WATER FISHING TRICKS OF THE WORLD'S FIFTYBESTPROFESSIONAL FISHERMEN-plus the professional secrets of fishing rodsandhow fishing rods are made. Privite Printing,1949. Mine is a 10th editionprinted in 1961. My question comes from the fact that I have never seenHerters 'Professional Manufacturer's Guide' printed the same year. How dothe two compare to each other? Or do they?Thanks for the helpGWH from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Feb 15 10:37:16 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine My copy arrived in Saturdays mail. Have not had a chance to read onlyscannedthe pages. Mark Cole from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 10:49:25 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04480 for Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener At 10:36 AM 2/15/98 EST, you wrote:Art- The product is Kodak catalog # 146 4106. Solution A (fixer)containsAmmonium thiosulfate, sodium acetate, boric acid and acetic acid.Solution B(hardener) contains sulphuric acid and aluminum sulfate. I am not aphotographer and that is all I can tell you.That island you live on, would that be Liberty Island, where youse guysput upthat statue that shows it's butt to Joisey City, or would that be EllisIsland, or would that be some other island youse swiped from us?I live in Wenonah NJ, near Philadelphia. Tom,1) Thanks for the info, it should help in deciding whether I'll usethat method or opt for a more cost-effective one.2)'SfarasIknow we only swiped ONE island in a race and I guessWenonah is afur piece from MY Metropolitan Area. Awhile back there was ayacht race to determine whether Staten Island would belong to you guys orus. Capt Billopp won for us (depending on your point of view)-- made itaround in under 24 hrs. You've probably heard of the lottery where firstprize is a week in Philly and second prize is TWO weeks in Philly? Well,weon the Island STILL aren't sure we're better off in the shadow of the greatcity of MANHATTAN (oh and all those other boroughs out there somewhereorother) or whether we should be part of the Turnpike State. Anyway you and I will probably bump into each other somewhere inthis area someday, probably at the Somerset Flyfishing Show. My chapterofTU (CJTU) has a booth there every year and I'm usually there at some pointin the show, working it. If you fish any of the Lehigh Valley streams,lemmeknow and we can probably set up a date convenient to both of us during thesummer (I'm one of them damn teachers who get the summers off so wecan goout and waste the taxpayers' money -- which I do enthusiastically!). You take care and we'll be seeing each other on the web-- that's forsure.Art from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 15 11:27:01 1998 Subject: Re: leader faq John My pleasure, small thing..keeping 60's is a bbig thing Jerry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 15 11:58:20 1998 Subject: Garrison new edition Is the new edition of this book different than the old one circa 1977? Ifsowhat is different?Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:14:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re Solid glass tips and Eng. Bronzed Tip Tops Charlie,I'll have these items out to you this week. Thanks for the order. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:25:51 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning Brian, from what I understand, this concoction does'nt work very well.You are supposed to leave your N/S part in this solution for ten hours to getthe black color. People i've talked to say they have even left the part in fortwenty hours and still did not get a BLACK color.They ended up with a BROWNcolor. The only solution that imparts a truely black finish on N/S,is PaynesoXidizer, which is made exclusively for blackening Nickel Silver. Dave LeClair from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:38:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo magazine OOPS! Thats Houston, TX. Mark from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:38:31 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Tung Oil Problem? You want to be careful with forced drying of your finishes as you could getalligatoring.Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:52:09 1998 Subject: Re: color preserver-three in one Poly-Varnish-Eng. BronzedGuides. Ian,I sent a new brochure out to you a couple of days ago. You may be interested in my Snake Maker, if you don't have one already. You canmake snake guides in either American twist or English twist ( Reversed).Using the English Bronzed Wires, you can make duplicate snake guides forthose old rods with English Bronzed guides.When you get my brochure, let meknow if have any questions. I'm always glad to help. Dave LeClair from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:52:17 1998 Subject: Re: leader faq John,Here is a leader that Gary Borger gave me for small flies. Works great forme.1ft of .013, 4ft .010, 4ft 4x and 1ft 6x or 1ft 7x. or if you want alonger leader try this one. 5ft .017, 5ft .013, 1ft .010, 3ft .007, 1ft.005.Bret from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 14:30:33 1998 Subject: leaders Greg;Thanks alot for the leader formula, I tried to download the software thisA.M. and just now got back online after the disaster I caused myself, I'llbe gunshy about downloading for quite a while.John Channer from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 15 14:49:37 1998 Subject: Lehigh Valley Art - We do indeed fish the Little Lehigh often in the Trico season, andoftenfish the Big Bushkill and the Broadhead in the Spring. Keep in touch, andwewill arrange something. from ramseys@directcon.net Sun Feb 15 15:11:25 1998 zeus.directcon.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08263 for Subject: Re: leaders In reply to the following by john channer on 12:19 PM 2/15/98;Greg;Thanks alot for the leader formula, I tried to download the software thisA.M. and just now got back online after the disaster I caused myself, I'llbe gunshy about downloading for quite a while.John Channer I could use a little help finding the software...all I located was a JAVAapplet page with the program online.Am I to understand that there is a downloadable stand-alone program?Help would be appreciated, as I struck out on my own Steve Steven and Liisa Ramsey Cameron Park, CaliforniaOur public PGP key is available fromhttp://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 15 15:52:20 1998 Subject: Re: leaders john,I never download any files from any1 anymore because I have beenscrewed up bythem.bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Feb 15 16:07:05 1998 Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley RO>Art - We do indeed fish the Little Lehigh often in the Trico season, andoftRO>fish the Big Bushkill and the Broadhead in the Spring. Keep in touch,and weRO>will arrange something. Tom, Sorry for the incomplete 1st message - the family cat walked across thekeyboard and posted it for me. If I get back to visit my brother-in-law (Bethlehem, PA) soon, I'd liketo fish with you also. Don Burns from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 15 17:25:55 1998 Subject: Re: leaders John What happened to your download,, i hope it wasn't my fault Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 15 18:30:52 1998 Subject: web Doug Hall finally has started a web page, how high tech, got it postedunder the makers Jerry from harsha@aros.net Sun Feb 15 18:47:09 1998 Subject: Bamboo I picked up a Chinese decorative wall fan. It is made of paper andbamboo. The bamboo came from a culm with a diameter of 5-6 inches, andthe power fibers are about 1/4 inch thick. Does anyone know what typeof bamboo this is and could it be used to build rods. See a pic at: http://www.aros.net/~harsha/QVLIN021.jpg Thanks, Mike from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 18:59:54 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09723 for Subject: Re: leaders At 12:19 PM 2/15/98, you wrote:Greg;Thanks alot for the leader formula, I tried to download the software thisA.M. and just now got back online after the disaster I caused myself, I'llbe gunshy about downloading for quite a while.John Channer John,I downloaded it myself (due to your interest and inquisitiveness) and hadnoproblem (YET). I haven't unzipped or installed it yet. My question, ofcourse: if I got it successfully, does disaster still await? I'm not goingto run the thing unless I hear it was in the downloading. I too have had myshare of conflicting software appocalypses and don't need a formula forleaders THAT badly. Any suggestions?Art from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 19:00:29 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09758 for Subject: Re: Lehigh Valley At 03:48 PM 2/15/98 EST, you wrote:Art - We do indeed fish the Little Lehigh often in the Trico season, andoftenfish the Big Bushkill and the Broadhead in the Spring. Keep in touch, andwewill arrange something. You got it!Art from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 19:10:05 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA10325 for Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley At 02:06 PM 2/15/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Art - We do indeed fish the Little Lehigh often in the Trico season,and oftRO>fish the Big Bushkill and the Broadhead in the Spring. Keep in touch,and weRO>will arrange something. Tom, Sorry for the incomplete 1st message - the family cat walked across thekeyboard and posted it for me. If I get back to visit my brother-in-law (Bethlehem, PA) soon, I'd liketo fish with you also. Don Burns Don, I guess tomorrow's too soon, eh? I'll be there with a friend looking forPresidents on Presidents' Day. I'll settle for a trout or two though! We getout there every week or two until it gets nice then I'll try to do it everyweek. I used to get a Jersey license AND a PA but the costs were gettingpunitive (and they opened up the new Rte 78 leg which saves me a halfhourto the Little Lehigh)so I went only for the PA for the last year or two. NowNJ has opened up some new waters so I may go back to fishing both states.Ithurts that a NY license is so affordable but that it takes me almost threeand a half hours to get to the BeaMoc area and I'm getting a little long inthe tooth to do that both ways in a day after fishing 8 or 10 hrs!Hope we can all get together soon,Art from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Feb 15 19:21:14 1998 Subject: Re: UV box My varnish hardens pretty much overnight. Is the box used for curing it? Isthis used for spar only? Just intrigued... Rob from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Sun Feb 15 19:31:17 1998 8.7/8.7) idUAA38570 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:29:16 - Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley Art, Tom, Don, etal,You can count me as a Big Bushkill, etc. flyfisher-type. Justwaiting for a day off and a tad better waeather :>)Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Feb 15 19:48:17 1998 Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley RO>I guess tomorrow's too soon, eh? I'll be there with a friend looking forRO>Presidents on Presidents' Day. I'll settle for a trout or two though! WegetRO>out there every week or two until it gets nice then I'll try to do iteveryRO>week. I used to get a Jersey license AND a PA but the costs weregettingRO>punitive (and they opened up the new Rte 78 leg which saves me a halfhourRO>to the Little Lehigh)so I went only for the PA for the last year or two.NowRO>NJ has opened up some new waters so I may go back to fishing bothstates. ItRO>hurts that a NY license is so affordable but that it takes me almostthreeRO>and a half hours to get to the BeaMoc area and I'm getting a little longinRO>the tooth to do that both ways in a day after fishing 8 or 10 hrs!RO>Hope we can all get together soon,RO>Art Art, I'm out in LA and already have a 3 day weekend planned for next weekendon the Lower Owens River. Plus I just found out that the #%$#@%$#$% furnace in my 10 year oldhouse went out. Needs a new heat exchanger. (prorated warranty) I figurethat the not covered labor and misc. parts will equal a new furnace +/-$10. (: from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 20:15:11 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14092 for Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley At 08:29 PM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote:Art, Tom, Don, etal,You can count me as a Big Bushkill, etc. flyfisher-type. Justwaiting for a day off and a tad better waeather :>)Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm Len,I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up theresemi- regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL or theLittle Bushkill (in Easton.Art from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 15 20:17:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics Carsten,The experience of most of the list suggests that my beliefs areincorrect,my own experience notwithstanding. I can only suggest that youbuildone hollow vs. one solid-8' would be a fair test- and let us know how youfared.Regards ,Hank. from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 20:21:11 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14334 for Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley At 05:47 PM 2/15/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>I guess tomorrow's too soon, eh? I'll be there with a friend looking forRO>Presidents on Presidents' Day. I'll settle for a trout or two though! WegetRO>out there every week or two until it gets nice then I'll try to do iteveryRO>week. I used to get a Jersey license AND a PA but the costs weregettingRO>punitive (and they opened up the new Rte 78 leg which saves me ahalf hourRO>to the Little Lehigh)so I went only for the PA for the last year or two.NowRO>NJ has opened up some new waters so I may go back to fishing bothstates. ItRO>hurts that a NY license is so affordable but that it takes me almostthreeRO>and a half hours to get to the BeaMoc area and I'm getting a little longinRO>the tooth to do that both ways in a day after fishing 8 or 10 hrs!RO>Hope we can all get together soon,RO>Art Art, I'm out in LA and already have a 3 day weekend planned for next weekendon the Lower Owens River. Plus I just found out that the #%$#@%$#$% furnace in my 10 year oldhouse went out. Needs a new heat exchanger. (prorated warranty) I figurethat the not covered labor and misc. parts will equal a new furnace +/-$10. (:There goes my Grayrock trip for this year. Don Don,Enjoy the Owens, it sounds like you're going to have to make do with that soon, but it doesn't owe me anything; it's forty years old and never costmea dime. If you're replacing with gas hot-air and you learn any insidesecrets I can use in the next year or so, e-mail me privately and I'll beforever grateful. I've been trying to find data on the new high efficiencymodels on the web and all I can find is boilerplate--no prices orindependent reviews.Art from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 15 21:16:07 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA16108 +0000 Subject: Re: books -----Original Message----- Subject: books Dear Sirs,Since it is on everyones mind (lusting after Mr. Fink's books) I have aninquiry about a book I just found by George and Jacques Herter. The titleis SECRET FRESH AND SALT WATER FISHING TRICKS OF THE WORLD'S FIFTYBESTPROFESSIONAL FISHERMEN-plus the professional secrets of fishing rodsandhow fishing rods are made. Privite Printing,1949. Mine is a 10th editionprinted in 1961. My question comes from the fact that I have never seenHerters 'Professional Manufacturer's Guide' printed the same year. Howdothe two compare to each other? Or do they?Thanks for the helpGWH My copy of the "Secret..................Professional Fisherman" is a firstedition with a copywrite date of 1965! It has 416 pages and 22 chapters.The first 104 pages are pretty much devoted to bamboo. In the list ofotherbooks by George Herter it does not list "Professional Manufacturer's Guide" Is it possible that they used the same title for different books indifferent years? Does this mean that 'Professional ......Guide' had to beprinted after 1965? Dick from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 15 21:22:41 1998 Subject: Re: WG: rodmakers gathering Alex -The Michigan get together (aka Grayrock 98) is officially June 26 - 27- BUT unofficially there will be fishing and rodmaking starting at theClubhouseas early as June 20. There will be workbenchs and tool sets for the earlyarrivals to use and a pilgrimage to the Jordan (the Section Creek 13stretch -'the Humbler') is planned. There are several other options in fishing. If however your schedule is limited to July and August - I will make youthis offer (WHICH IS OPEN TO OTHER LIST MEMBERS AS WELL) - You makeit toMichigan and I will personally play host as best as I can - over the yearsseveral have taken advantage of this offer and I think that they all had agood time - well except for this fellow from STL who booted Mr Brooktroutlast fall. Please feel free to contact me off line - waynecatt@aol.com Wayne from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 21:24:41 1998 Subject: leaders Greg;It was a complete disaster. I destroyed several files that ran all myinternet connections, I had to have a friend come over with a big bag ofdisks and basically start all over,never againJohn Channer from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 21:30:23 1998 Subject: leaders Jerry;No, I don't think it was the fault of yhe program or the web page, probablymostly opperator error and inadequate equipment. I am not equiped todownload zip files, so I got netzip, then downloaded the leader programandscrewed up trying to read it. I'm going to have to take many lessons beforeI try again, rodbuilding is much easier than computer operating, at leastto me.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 21:35:30 1998 Subject: download Art;I'm afraid you're asking the family dog about rocket science, all I know I did!!!John Channer from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 15 22:05:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planes Brett,Highlight it- I have a heck of a time reading it as is.Hank. from dickay@alltel.net Sun Feb 15 22:05:49 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA21936 0600 Subject: Re: Furnaces Art, Contact me direct with your questions. I work in the HVAC industry. MaybeI can some of them for you. Dick FuhrmanFort Smith, ARdickay@alltel.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Feb 15 22:16:39 1998 Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:16:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley Nothing to do with rods and fishing, just a general question. I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up theresemi-regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL or theLittle Bushkill (in Easton.Art So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill. Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept of overkill ;-).Initialy I thought it was just an interesting one off name but that is obviously not the case.What is the "kill" suffix in the first three names (plus all the others I'm sure are out there) all about? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 23:06:26 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA27277 for Subject: Re: download At 07:24 PM 2/15/98, you wrote:Art;I'm afraid you're asking the family dog about rocket science, all I know I did!!!John ChannerJohn,Sorry for the disaster. I know how frustrating they can be. I spend most ofmy time on the raw edge too, cybernetically speaking. I guess I've justbeenlucky in the software I had before I began to download files. I've only hadtrouble with them AFTER I got them and installed them and they modifiedmyconfig.sys or autoexec.bat. THEN it's what-th'-hell- happened-time!Good luck in the future,Art from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 23:38:08 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA28846 for Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley At 12:16 PM 2/16/98 +0800, you wrote:Nothing to do with rods and fishing, just a general question. I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up theresemi-regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL or theLittle Bushkill (in Easton.Art So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill. Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept of overkill ;-).Initialy I thought it was just an interesting one off name but that is obviously not the case.What is the "kill" suffix in the first three names (plus all the others I'm sure are out there) all about? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ Tony,I believe kill is Dutch for "stream" and that these little riverswere first named by the "New Netherlanders" here in the Northeast. Ilookedit up in an International Dictionary and they say it's a US dialect but JohnMerwin, in "The Battenkill", backs me up and ascribes the many uses of ittothe Dutch, going back to Henry Hudson who explored the (you got it!)HudsonRiver. It seems to be more than any one stream/river/estuarynomenclaturethough, since I live on Staten Island (in New York City) and we'reseparated from New Jersey by two saltwater "passages" known as The Arthur Killand TheKill Van Kull. you won't find any trout in those two shipping lanes! As amatter of fact we sometimes expect the fish that DO pass through theretoglow in the dark, the water is so polluted! Hope that clears it up a little Art ps: Don't give me any of that "What's a Grecian urn/earn" crap back! from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Feb 16 00:21:08 1998 Subject: books Dick, Now I am confused. My copy of 'Secret....Professional Fishermen'contains 18 chapters with 206 pages. The first 104 on bambooconstruction.Sounds like the same book, yours having some additions. Although I don'tunderstand your 1965 first edition date. It looks like the Herters mighthave used some "poetic licence". Every reference I have puts the'Professional Split-Bamboo... Manufacturer's Guide' as a 1949 publish date.I'm going to be in DC in two weeks hopefully I'll have time to go by theLibrary of Congress. Thanks for your help.Gary from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Mon Feb 16 00:26:25 1998 ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:24:52 +0200 (EET) Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: Re: Planes/Finland Seppo This fellow Bjårn Daehlie is Norwegian. I am danish, like in pastry. Havespend some time finding out, what you meant. I might be slow, the norwegianis not. He is the skier, who 2 days ago beat the h... out of all thefinnish skiers down in Nagano. Gold medal, I think. :-). Personally, I think all this snow and ice You fellows from the northernparts of Scandinavia seem to enjoy is just a menace, preventing me fromfishing. Here in the southern parts of Scandinavia the season forseatroutin the rivers start at the middle of january. Flyfishing, my friend, noticefishing. How do You like that? :-) Best regards Carsten Yep, my mistake, sorry about it. I thought you might be danish after I saw your e-mail address. Since you live in Denmark, I might as well ask you if you buy your bamboo from Fluesnapperen? If you do, what do you thinkabout the quality/price of bamboo. I would also be very happy if you could tellme where in Denmark is Svenstrup? Just in case I would end up in Denmarksome day. Regards,Seppo PS. Wow, fly-trouts in January. Here I am in the middle of snow and ice dreaming all those trouts and graylings waiting for me under the ice. BTW, speaking of icefishing I fixed up my icefishing gear yesterday. Going after perch soon. from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Mon Feb 16 05:06:18 1998 emf h9451015; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:06:01 +0100 12:05:04+0100 Subject: coming to america Hello Bret,It is very kind of you to take me fishing with you in Michigan.I will come to the USA in Juni to attend the rodmaking gathering inGrayling.Afterwards I will stay in the USA for another 1-2 weeks.It would be very nice if we could meet during this time.I live very close to Bludenz it is about 40km one way.This is the westernpartof Austriamy workbench is also there.The most time I live in vienna the capital city of Austria.I am studiing there.In the holidays I am always at home and building canerods.Have you ever been to Bludenz?The fishing oportunitis in the western part of Austria are not as good asin theeastern part of Austria.I spend the most days fishing in the surrounding of Vienna.I think it is very important for me to talk to other rodmakers and showthem myrods.It is hard for me to improve my rods without the opinion of otherrodmakers.I would like to contact you for further information. Thanks a lot Alex. PS: I should improve knolege of english till summer. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 06:16:55 1998 Subject: Re: coming to america Alex,I look forward to meeting you and taking you down on the Muskegon riverandthe Pere Marquette. These are my favorite rivers. No I have not been toBludenz but we plan on going over sometime. I hope your English is betterthan my German, but I will brush up on that also. Mine Deutsch is nicht sogut. Keep in touch and we will get some fishing in when you get here.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 07:13:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planes How do I hilite it?Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 16 09:25:36 1998 Subject: RE:coming to america RO>Hello Bret,RO>It is very kind of you to take me fishing with you in Michigan.RO>I will come to the USA in Juni to attend the rodmaking gathering inGraylingRO>Afterwards I will stay in the USA for another 1-2 weeks.RO>It would be very nice if we could meet during this time.RO>I live very close to Bludenz it is about 40km one way.This is thewestern paRO>my workbench is also there.RO>The most time I live in vienna the capital city of Austria.RO>I am studiing there.In the holidays I am always at home and buildingcane roRO>Have you ever been to Bludenz?RO>The fishing oportunitis in the western part of Austria are not as goodas inRO>Austria.I spend the most days fishing in the surrounding of Vienna.RO>I think it is very important for me to talk to other rodmakers and showthemRO>It is hard for me to improve my rods without the opinion of otherrodmakers.RO>I would like to contact you for further information. RO>Thanks a lot Alex. RO>PS: I should improve knolege of english till summer. Alex, I've been to Vienna, it's a great place to visit. Didn't get outside ofthe city except for the train ride between Budapest and Vienna. My wifeand I were in Budapest for a conference. (wife attended) I got to go fishing. So I went over to Ljubljana, Slovenia andfished the Krka, Unec and Sava Bohinja. If your trout fishing is thesame as down there, then you must have some nice streams to fish. Still hoping to make Grayrock myself. Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 16 09:51:10 1998 Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:51:02 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley Art, I believe kill is Dutch for "stream" and that these little riverswere first named by the "New Netherlanders" here in the Northeast. Ilookedit up in an International Dictionary and they say it's a US dialect butJohnMerwin, in "The Battenkill", backs me up and ascribes the many uses of ittothe Dutch, going back to Henry Hudson who explored the (you got it!)HudsonRiver. It seems to be more than any one stream/river/estuarynomenclature Now I know. Thanks. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 16 10:23:32 1998 Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley RO>At 12:16 PM 2/16/98 +0800, you wrote:RO>>Nothing to do with rods and fishing, just a general question.RO>>RO>>> I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up thereRO>>> semi-regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL ortheRO>>> Little Bushkill (in Easton.RO>>> ArtRO>>>RO>>So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill.RO>>Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept of overkill ;- ).RO>>Initialy I thought it was just an interesting one off name but that isRO>>obviously not the case.RO>>What is the "kill" suffix in the first three names (plus all the othersRO>>I'm sure are out there) all about?RO>>RO>>TonyRO>>RO>>/***********************************************************************/RO>>Tony YoungRO>>http://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlRO>>The Australian connectionRO>>/***********************************************************************/RO>>RO>>RO>Tony,RO> I believe kill is Dutch for "stream" and that these little riversRO>were first named by the "New Netherlanders" here in the Northeast. IlookedRO>it up in an International Dictionary and they say it's a US dialect butJohnRO>Merwin, in "The Battenkill", backs me up and ascribes the many uses ofit toRO>the Dutch, going back to Henry Hudson who explored the (you got it!)HudsonRO>River. It seems to be more than any one stream/river/estuarynomenclatureRO>though, since I live on Staten Island (in New York City) and we'reseparatedRO> from New Jersey by two saltwater "passages" known as The Arthur Killand TheRO>Kill Van Kull. you won't find any trout in those two shipping lanes! As aRO>matter of fact we sometimes expect the fish that DO pass throughthere toRO>glow in the dark, the water is so polluted! Hope that clears it up alittleRO>for you.RO> By the way, what's a wallaby anyway (just kidding),RO>Art RO>ps: Don't give me any of that "What's a Grecian urn/earn" crap back! OBTW when i was in Scotland, I found out that "Inver" means "next to"(or maybe "upon the mouth"? - can't quite remember which), but you'llget the idea. So "Inverness" means next to the river Ness. There was a lot of "Inver's" in Scotland. Don from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Mon Feb 16 14:18:31 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 304 0600 Subject: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three strips toabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experience withthis material? Thanks! Jim Kubichek from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Feb 16 14:44:59 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA25542 for; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:03:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Planes/Finland ----------From: Karkkainen Seppo Yep, my mistake, sorry about it. I thought you might be danish after Isaw your e-mail address. Since you live in Denmark, I might as well ask youif you buy your bamboo from Fluesnapperen? If you do, what do you thinkabout the quality/price of bamboo. I would also be very happy if you could tellme where in Denmark is Svenstrup? Just in case I would end up in Denmarksome day. Regards,Seppo PS. Wow, fly-trouts in January. Here I am in the middle of snow and ice dreaming all those trouts and graylings waiting for me under the ice.BTW, speaking of icefishing I fixed up my icefishing gear yesterday. Goingafter perch soon. Seppo The owner of "Fluesnapperen" is, as You probably knows, Preben DorphJorgensen. He is a very helpfull fellow, from whom I myself boughtbamboowhen I started rodmaking. Svenstrup is a very minor town in the northernpart of Jutland, some 4 hours from Copenhagen by car. (This IS a smallcountry) I recall paying DKK 200 for a culm, claimed to have been som 10years old. His cane is OK without being the very best. Compared to theprices I have seen in swedish catalogs, it is indeed a low price. Some 6months ago I got hold of a catalog from Lennart Bergquist of "Flugbinding -pö mitt sett" fame. He charged an unbelieveable SKR 650 per culm, whichissheer armed robbery. Should You ever come to Denmark, let me know. I have, today, some 17surplus culms for sale. The are, at least, 25 years old and of AAA quality,except for one thing; They have been stashed away all those years agowithout being cut open longitudal, so have developed cracks bythemselves.This will not prevent them being used for rodbuilding, but it doesn't looknice. I charge DKK 250 per culm plus postage. I use the same qualitymyself Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Feb 16 14:45:04 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA25530; Mon, 16 Feb 199821:03:53+0100 (CET) Subject: Re: RE:Lehigh Valley ----------From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE:Lehigh ValleyDate: 16. februar 1998 05:16 Nothing to do with rods and fishing, just a general question. I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up theresemi-regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL or theLittle Bushkill (in Easton.Art So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill. Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept oReceived: from vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id GAA04322 for; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 06:15:28 +0100 (CET) (CET)(envelope- from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu) admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA27277 for Message-Id: Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Art Port Subject: Re: downloadMime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: anglport@admin.con2.comX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN At 07:24 PM 2/15/98, you wrote:Art;I'm afraid you're asking the family dog about rocket science, all I know thanI did!!!John ChannerJohn,Sorry for the disaster. I know how frustrating they can be. I spend mostofmy time on the raw edge too, cybernetically speaking. I guess I've justbeenlucky in the software I had before I began to download files. I've onlyhadtrouble with them AFTER I got them and installed them and theymodifiedmyconfig.sys or autoexec.bat. THEN it's what-th'-hell- happened-time!Good luck in the future,Art from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Feb 16 06:48:04 1998 Tony Is this an example of the weird and wondurfull humour from down under?:-) Carsten from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 16 14:45:49 1998 Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? In a message dated 2/16/98 12:36:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us writes: I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three stripstoabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experiencewiththis material? Yes I have. I tested many various different types of glue by planingtwo strips and gluing them together, then bending them until theybreak. The DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin is the only one that I havehad let loose before the bamboo broke. Others have said that Iprobably got an old batch, because in reality the glue is a typeof URAC, and many others have used it with great success.If you use it, make sure it is fresh. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 16 14:46:17 1998 Subject: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? A UV (ultraviolet) box is just a box in which to dry your varnish morequickly. It has one or more fluorescent light fixtures with ultraviolettubes. This weekend I was driving down a street in an industrial sectionand as I passed an auto body shop, I saw an entire garage withfluorescent fixtures on all the walls and ceiling. I mean lined upedge to edge! I immediately thought of this thread, and wondered if it was a huge drying box. Since my van is in need of a paint job, I stopped and went in to inquire about prices. As I was talking to the guy, I asked about the fluorescent lightroom. He said the light dries the paint quicker and makes it sothe car repels dust. Hmmm... repels dust? Yes, he says, the lightcharges the surface and makes it so the dust doesn't settle onthe paint. Can this be true? If it is, it sounds like somethingrod builders can use..... Darryl Hayashida from thramer@presys.com Mon Feb 16 15:08:15 1998 0000 Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three strips toabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experiencewiththis material? Thanks! Jim KubichekI can concur with Daryls experience. I also found that it would not putup with much heat, as in staightening. A.J.Thramer from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Feb 16 16:03:48 1998 Subject: Re: coming to america Bret -I saw that you mentioned the Muskegon River and that you fish it alot - where do you live in the midwest???? - Newaygo is only 17 miles away. Wayne from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 16:24:35 1998 Subject: Re: Re: coming to america Wayne,I live about 156 miles from the Muskegon and fish it every week. Mostly Ifish with Carl Richards when I go. As a matter of fact I received a phonecall from a gentleman yesterday and he asked me if I was interested inbuyinghis place on the river. I am planning on going up there in the next coupleofweeks to look the place over and to discuss price, timing etc.Wayne if you ever want to meet there I am always open to the trip. SometimesI even just drive there for the day , but I always carry provisions just incase.Bret Oh yeah I fish a Leonard tho. But I just got a rod from R.B. So I will haveto try that one out this year. from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 16 16:49:25 1998 Subject: web page Gang Have added a new topic under suppliers, - professional services - thefirst link is http://www.eee.org/bus/reel_art/ any other offerings? regards Jerry from brookside.rod@juno.com Mon Feb 16 18:18:32 1998 19:17:03 EST Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? Tried DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin a few years ago. Resulted in the onlyjoints which have ever delaminated at the glue line. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.comon-line catalog: http://home.onestop.net/brookside On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:13:40 -0600 jim_kubichek@s- hamilton.k12.ia.uswrites:I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three strips toabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experience withthis material? Thanks! Jim Kubichek end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:04:17 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? Dear Darryl I'm not sure about the dust thing. That might be a function of having enough of them to raise the temp orinstigate a repellent charge in the metal (?) or something. I do know thatitmakes your work dry with less dust simply because it's in a box, you know. This is a little embarassing but I'd better spill it. I called up my oldpartner to ask where he got those tubes, what temp they are etc. and helaughed so hard he shot beer through his nose. They are standard,unshielded,blacklights: remember "Inna Godda Davida?" Blacklights. He also said (see, he was the smart one) That the box promotes drying intwoways: 1. the UV thing and; B. it raises the temp a little and causessomething called cross-linking which I assume has something to do withsex (?)or something. In the interest of science, I'll just sign offDavy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:07:24 1998 Subject: Re: RE:Lehigh Valley Tony ,"kill" means stream in, I believe, the Dutch language.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:09:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: coming to america Alex,Your English is better than that of some on this list that grew up in theU.S. of A. Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:11:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planes Brett,I own a mac and I can use the mouse, starting at the top of the e- mailandbring it down on the page within the letter-if the letter is long enough toscroll it will do so automatically when the mouse reaches the bottom ofthepage in view. Good luck.Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 16 19:42:34 1998 Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three strips toabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experiencewiththis material? Thanks! Jim KubichekThis is the dry version of urea formaldehyde glue. A very good glue.John Zimny from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:46:01 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? In a message dated 2/16/98 5:12:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,Ragnarig@aol.comwrites: They are standard, unshielded,blacklights: remember "Inna Godda Davida?" Blacklights. The ones at the body shop looked like standard fluorescent lights.I still wonder though, because if it was just raised temperaturethey could have used heat lamps. Darryl Hayashida from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 16 19:47:22 1998 Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/16/98 12:36:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us writes: I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three stripstoabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experiencewiththis material? Yes I have. I tested many various different types of glue by planingtwo strips and gluing them together, then bending them until theybreak. The DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin is the only one that I havehad let loose before the bamboo broke. Others have said that Iprobably got an old batch, because in reality the glue is a typeof URAC, and many others have used it with great success.If you use it, make sure it is fresh. Darryl HayashidaYep. It only has a 1 year shelf-life and that only if kept below 70F anddry.John Zimny from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 16 19:52:36 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Dear Darryl I'm not sure about the dust thing. That might be a function of having enough of them to raise the temp orinstigate a repellent charge in the metal (?) or something. I do knowthat itmakes your work dry with less dust simply because it's in a box, youknow. This is a little embarassing but I'd better spill it. I called up my oldpartner to ask where he got those tubes, what temp they are etc. and helaughed so hard he shot beer through his nose. They are standard,unshielded,blacklights: remember "Inna Godda Davida?" Blacklights. He also said (see, he was the smart one) That the box promotes drying intwoways: 1. the UV thing and; B. it raises the temp a little and causessomething called cross-linking which I assume has something to do withsex (?)or something. In the interest of science, I'll just sign offDavyIs it not so that varnish manufacturers add two types of UV protectionto most outside varnishes precisely because UV radiation disrupts theco-valent bonds that hold the polymer together? What damage could one bedoing to the longevity of the coating by exposing it to concentrateddoses of UV radiation?John Zimny from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 21:04:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planes Hank,I use a Mac also I will give it a go.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 21:08:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? John,there is a special varnish made with a UV prtectant in it that we haveused onexterior wood doors and it seems to hold up quite well. I don't know thenameof it but will try and find out. We are working on a remodel job on a housewe built nine years ago and the original UV varnish has held upsurprisinglywell. southern exposure and all. I wonder what it would be like on a rod.Bret from d_price@global2000.net Mon Feb 16 21:10:52 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA10758 for; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:10:48 -0500 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? J. C. Zimny wrote: Is it not so that varnish manufacturers add two types of UV protectionto most outside varnishes precisely because UV radiation disrupts theco-valent bonds that hold the polymer together? What damage could onebedoing to the longevity of the coating by exposing it to concentrateddoses of UV radiation?John Zimny A couple of days under all the flourescent lights you could fit around arod, dosn't equal an hour under bright sunlight(uv).The uv protectionthat you speak of is for day after day after day for years of exsposureto daylight outside. So I would say it dosn't do much to the varnish!!!.Dave Price from stpete@netten.net Mon Feb 16 21:14:32 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA02104 for; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:39:13 -0600 Subject: Bamboo shipment Just got a shipment of 20 Demarest 2" - 2-1/2" culms in on Friday. Idon't have enough experience to rate the culms as better than average ornot. I will say that I would hate to get hit in the head with most ofthem. There are some very thick walled culms in this group. Three withgrowers marks (some up to 18" long). A few with a split where I supposethey were "straightened. All in all I'd say very good, very usablecane. I'd received a culm from someone on the list which is being madeinto a rod now. The Demarest cane I just received is MUCH thicker. I wiped the light coating of grey mold off. No damage to the canethough. Fairly clean overall. Now the question: Do you guys recommend a check split or would you split the entirelength? How about you nodeless makers. Does it make a difference if I split itat all, since I'll be cutting the nodes out? Rick from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 16 22:18:42 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo shipment Rick,I'd check split at least-the first2 shipments I didn't and the naturalchecking wasted some good cane.Hank. from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 16 22:58:03 1998 Subject: web FFF has a new page http://www.fedflyfishers.org updated the page also Jerry from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 16 23:30:15 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? In a message dated 98-02-16 20:55:10 EST, you write: Dear John Don't know. Guess it depends on what effect the rays would have on theagentswhich cause those bonds during the drying process. Might be it locks themuptighter. Be worth finding out, for peace of mind if nothing else. Meanwhile, I'll keep using it (I'll be the test group) since I try not to sellmy rods and rather enjoy refinishing anyway. Does anybody know achemistcurrently working with such compounds? Might be one hiding under one ofthose800 numbers on the varnish cans. Hmmm... Davy from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Feb 16 23:38:24 1998 Subject: Dickerson 8615 taper The taper page for the Dickerson 8615 says it's a 3 wt.Looks like a damn stout 3 wt.Has anyone fished one of these, what line did it cast well? Brian from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 17 00:09:19 1998 Subject: Dickerson 8615 Brian;I askes the same question last fall and didn't get an answer. If you findout off-list, please post your findings, I am curious, too.Looks more likea 7 to me.John Channer from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Tue Feb 17 01:17:53 1998 emf h9451015; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:17:47 +0100 08:16:49+0100 Subject: WG: vienna Hello Don !Do you visit vienna in the next time?If you do please visit me.We can go fishing or talk about rodmaking.I am allways happy to talk to another rodmaker.I have not often thepossibility. It is not necessary to go for fishing to Slovenia.In Austria are a lot of verygo streams.I think that some of them are well know.For exampel the Traun.CharlesRitz hadspend everyyear some days fishing there.It is 2Hours by car from vienna.There are alot ofother good streams.The problem is that the prices for the licence are very high. My adress in vienna Huber AlexanderThurngasse 19/15a1090-WIENAustriaEUROPE TEL:0222/3156749 Sincerely ALEX from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 17 05:42:52 1998 Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:42:42 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Dear Darryl I'm not sure about the dust thing. That might be a function of having enough of them to raise the temp orinstigate a repellent charge in the metal (?) or something. I do knowthat itmakes your work dry with less dust simply because it's in a box, youknow. Has anybody hooked a negative ion generator up inside the tube?I have no idea as to the good or otherwise effects of these things but I have seen what happens to smoke and dust particles that cross one and it's interesting to watch dust floating about suddenly drop like stones. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 17 06:09:55 1998 Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:09:47 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley wugate.wustl.edu idGAA10887 On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Carsten Jorgensen wrote: So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill. Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept of overkill.etc, etc Tony Is this an example of the weird and wondurfull humour from down under?:-) Carsten Kind of, but in a very mild way.As I mentioned, I had thought it an interesting one off name, kind of an indian translation sort of thing indicating plenty of beavers or battens were used to kill the salmon there were so many of the bloody things or something like that. I sort of liked the people at one time had before it was obvious there are limits to everything. This reminds me of something Hunter S Thompson wrote about Aspen. Hesays the place has become hideous with all the people moving in because of it's (past) beauty and all because of it's unfortunate name. He sees the only answer being to rename Aspen something like Pig City. He recons developers would have more difficulty selling property in Pig City than in Aspen.We for our part, I hate to use the term "down under" do things like in order to increase tourism to a small town you can only reach via 4wd at low tide (why would you bother???) rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you can drive there, buy a T Shirt with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" and drive home again.What a marketing coup! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from harry37@epix.net Tue Feb 17 08:37:00 1998 JAA25788 Subject: Re: Coating For Blued Ferrules A.J.Thramer wrote:..... Chris & I have had good luck with Payne formula from the rod roomandOspho Blue. The Ospho is more difficult to use, gives a greyer (sp)color but is quite durable on its own without protective coatings.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com Is this the same as OXPHO-BLUE from Brownells? Has anyone had any experience with any of the other Brownells productslike 44/40 or dicropan t-4? Greg Kuntz from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 17 09:22:49 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo shipment In a message dated 98-02-16 22:17:48 EST, you write: Rick - I recommend a full length split. Based on an experience with somecanea few years ago. Did the Garrison check split, which did not progress verymuch in most culms if at all, but most culms developed randominternodalfissures/splits and resulted in quite a bit of unuseable cane. Ihave my Regards,Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 17 09:23:15 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? In a message dated 98-02-16 22:11:43 EST, you write: Can anyone explain just what UV does to promote quicker drying of thevariousfinishes of our concern?RTyree from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 17 09:47:18 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA8119 +0000 Subject: Re: books Hi,The Library of Congress has a website (been there). Sorry I don't have itherebut I found it with a search engine when I was looking for books on bamboorodbuilding (yes, it listed them!).George ----------From: Heidt Subject: booksDate: Sunday, February 15, 1998 10:30 PM Dick, Now I am confused. My copy of 'Secret....Professional Fishermen'contains 18 chapters with 206 pages. The first 104 on bambooconstruction.Sounds like the same book, yours having some additions. Although Idon'tunderstand your 1965 first edition date. It looks like the Herters mighthave used some "poetic licence". Every reference I have puts the'Professional Split-Bamboo... Manufacturer's Guide' as a 1949 publishdate.I'm going to be in DC in two weeks hopefully I'll have time to go by theLibrary of Congress. Thanks for your help.Gary from plipton@sunvalley.net Tue Feb 17 10:29:52 1998 (208.14.167.22) Subject: UV box Davy: Are ultraviolet tubes different from regular fluorescent tubes? Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726- 9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 17 12:20:28 1998 Subject: Bamboo Mag. All: Teh BFR (Bamboo Fly Rod) arrived in today's mail - now I'll havesomething to read while Sears replaces my furnace. (: from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Tue Feb 17 12:30:25 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Tue, 17 Feb 98 13:29:39 EST Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? Caneist goes over to the Dark side, and new Gods? No doubt it wasn't beerat all.At 08:00 PM 2/16/98 EST, you wrote:Dear Darryl I'm not sure about the dust thing. That might be a function of having enough of them to raise the temp orinstigate a repellent charge in the metal (?) or something. I do knowthat itmakes your work dry with less dust simply because it's in a box, youknow. This is a little embarassing but I'd better spill it. I called up my oldpartner to ask where he got those tubes, what temp they are etc. and helaughed so hard he shot beer through his nose. They are standard,unshielded,blacklights: remember "Inna Godda Davida?" Blacklights. He also said (see, he was the smart one) That the box promotes drying intwoways: 1. the UV thing and; B. it raises the temp a little and causessomething called cross-linking which I assume has something to do withsex(?)or something. In the interest of science, I'll just sign offDavy Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Tue Feb 17 12:30:26 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Tue, 17 Feb 98 13:29:41 EST Subject: Re: Block PLanes Jerry, Good idea. I ground off the "wing" on the right side of the"adjuster" (frog?), which was the problem for me. Thanks for the idea. At 06:05 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:Robert I have removed the little adjuster thingy from all my stanleys. If youdon't set the clamp screw too tight they can be adjusted with fingerpressure just fine..I also couldn't get them to work at all well withhock blades Jerry Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Feb 17 13:57:46 1998 Subject: Re: UV box Dear Phil Yes, you use blacklight tubes. As I meant to say in my previous post,thereare two kinds: shielded, which is specially made to protect your eyes fromharmful radiation; and unshielded, which is cheaper. We use the latter,because they're cheaper. And because the thing works with the doorclosed andwe are not directly exposed to the rays. And, like I said earlier, line the box with tinfoil, to even out the effectand to contain a little heat, which also promotes drying. Davy from jczimny@dol.net Tue Feb 17 14:52:06 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? David Price wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Is it not so that varnish manufacturers add two types of UV protectionto most outside varnishes precisely because UV radiation disrupts theco-valent bonds that hold the polymer together? What damage couldone bedoing to the longevity of the coating by exposing it to concentrateddoses of UV radiation?John Zimny A couple of days under all the flourescent lights you could fit around arod, dosn't equal an hour under bright sunlight(uv).The uv protectionthat you speak of is for day after day after day for years of exsposureto daylight outside. So I would say it dosn't do much to the varnish!!!.Dave PriceNo No Someone mentioned ultra-violet lights. I wouldn't think exposureto regular flourescent lighting with a UV component would have a largeeffect.John from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 17 15:27:49 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id QAA14532 for; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:27:44 -0500 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? J. C. Zimny wrote: David Price wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Is it not so that varnish manufacturers add two types of UVprotectionto most outside varnishes precisely because UV radiation disruptstheco-valent bonds that hold the polymer together? What damage couldone bedoing to the longevity of the coating by exposing it to concentrateddoses of UV radiation?John Zimny A couple of days under all the flourescent lights you could fit around arod, dosn't equal an hour under bright sunlight(uv).The uv protectionthat you speak of is for day after day after day for years of exsposureto daylight outside. So I would say it dosn't do much to the varnish!!!.Dave PriceNo No Someone mentioned ultra-violet lights. I wouldn't think exposureto regular flourescent lighting with a UV component would have a largeeffect.John John I don't know how to make it any simpler , the exsposure to sunlightday after day is thousands and thousands of times more uv than a day ortwo under uv lights. So don't expect to have the varnish ruined useinguv lights to dry-cure.Dave Price from rmoon@ida.net Tue Feb 17 16:25:06 1998 Subject: Bill Stanley Favorite At Long last here is the Bill Stanley Favorite Taper. Sorry for thedelayRalph Heddon Bill Stanley Favorite #20 8 *' HDH or HEHReel Seat Brown Varigated Pyralin with bronze lock nutwith a NiAg slideband ahead of the locking nut. Black rubber butt cap and black plasticcork check.Brass winding check completely covered by wraps.Wraps Maroon Silk with no tipping. Handle and Reel Seat Length 10 1/8" Dimensions ( from Butt with varnish) Butt Section 10" .42215" .32520" .31225" .29130" .28635" .286 #17 Ferrule Mid section0" ?2" .2745" .25810" .24315" .23020" .21525" .20330" .18535" .183 #11 Ferrule Tip Section 1" .1735" .15810" .14615" .13120" .11625" .09730" .07634" .066 from Cmwall@aol.com Tue Feb 17 17:01:37 1998 Subject: Adhesives [ Question ] Gentlemen,I have a question reguarding the shelve life of URAC 185. I purchased aquart 5/97 and have glued up 3 butt & 7 tip sections. The material appears tobein same condition as when I purchased although it is 9 mos. old. Couldsomeone answer my question? Mac from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 17 17:07:00 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Coating For Blued Ferrules Greg,i've used 44/40 for a number of years on guns that I build and have neverhadgood success with using it on N.S. But it works great on touch up for bluingon steel.Bret from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Feb 17 17:47:16 1998 Subject: Re: Coating For Blued Ferrules Just received some of the Kodak fixer as a bluing kit for Nickel Silver. Is this a mistake to use? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Subject: Re: Coating For Blued FerrulesDate: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 3:03 PM Greg,i've used 44/40 for a number of years on guns that I build and have neverhadgood success with using it on N.S. But it works great on touch up forbluingon steel.Bret from jfoster@gte.net Tue Feb 17 18:03:02 1998 Subject: Re: Block PLanes Robert Glad it worked, I just took the whole cheap little affair out of mine,whatever works Jerry from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 17 18:07:22 1998 Subject: Anyone want large dia. silk thread All, I've got some boxes of "D" and larger silk thread. Mixed colors. Someare boxes of 25 x 10 yds of embroidery or button-hole silk thread,others are B-C or Gudebrod brand stuff. If anyone thinks he can use it,please email me off list to make shipping arrangements. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com PS - No jasper thread & nothing special. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 17 19:33:40 1998 Subject: re:Bill Stanley Favorite RO>At Long last here is the Bill Stanley Favorite Taper. Sorry for theRO>delayRO>Ralph RO>Heddon RO>Bill Stanley Favorite #20 8 *' HDH or HEHRO>Reel Seat Brown Varigated Pyralin with bronze lock nutwith a NiAgslideRO>band ahead of the locking nut. Black rubber butt cap and black plasticRO>cork check. Ralph, Please DO NOT take this a flame - it's very nice of you to post thistaper. I do want to correct few minor items that I think might cause someonegrief if not corrected. (somehow) #1 - Nickel-silver doesn't contain any silver - so shouldn't be listedas NiAg, IMHO. "NS" is a better form of shorthand. #2 - I think the correct line rating would be HDH or E, not HDH or HEH.Heddon normally marked their rods for a DT and a straight line. (linear) #3 - The winding check should be NS wrapped with thread (black?) on a#20, not made from black plastic. Do keep them tapers coming, Don Burns from jparker@union-tel.com Tue Feb 17 19:41:52 1998 release (PO205-101c) ID# 601-42025U5000L500S0) with SMTP Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:41:43 -0700 Subject: Leonard 40L Just had a call from a fellow in UP Mich who needs a taper for a Leonard40L (Letort). If anyone has it and would like to help him out you willhave to send it by US mail. He is not on line. I know he would appreciateit. 626 South 13th StreeetEscanaba, MI 49829 Best,Jon Parker from DRinker370@aol.com Tue Feb 17 20:26:05 1998 Subject: UV drying cabinets I have some information on drying cabinets using UV lights from a ViolinMaking book by H.S. Wake. I built this cabinet during my past forays intoinstrument making and is works well for the multiple (15 coats) of oilbasedvarnishes used. The finishes I used have held up without flaws for about15years so I would imagine that they will continue to be relatively durable .My drying cabinet measures 24 inches wide , 48 inches tall, by 18 inchesdeep.Because of the uniform coverage requirement of light I used 7 - 24 inchfluorescent fixtures wired parallel. If one burns out the rest remain litthis way. The bulbs are arranged three on the front and back and one onthebottom of case. The bulbs I used were General Electric no. 20T 12/BL 24inchunfiltered blacklight type. The interior is also lined with aluminum foiladhered with rubber cement. The cabinent does not stop dust fromaccumulating on the drying instrument from my experience. I wouldimaginethat the installation of some sort of vinyl sheet door as with dippingtubeswould solve some of the infiltration of dust . The key to correct drying isto keep the oil based varnish between 90 and 100 degrees while drying . Theprocess would take 48 hours for me. I have not used the cabinet forrodmakingyet (Im still absorbing all of Waynes information and building tools) butImsure that 2 or 3 of these bulbs wired with an incandescent bulb for heat inasmaller cabinet would work just fine . I hope any of this information ishelpful. David. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 17 20:37:52 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 17Feb 1998 21:38:50 +0000 Subject: Message... I got your message a bit late today. Thanks for calling. I thought I would respond this way....save a little money. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 17 21:01:57 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 17Feb 1998 22:02:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Message... Just wanted to apologize to everyone...I sent this to the wrong place...sorry for wasting your time. I got your message a bit late today. Thanks for calling. I thought I would respond this way....save a little money. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Feb 17 21:28:17 1998 Subject: Re: Anyone want large dia. silk thread Don, Are you only asking for us to pay for shipping? If not what is the cost? Thanks Mark Hallowell from rmoon@ida.net Tue Feb 17 21:30:07 1998 Subject: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite Don I stand admonished in regard to using NiAg. Henceforth nothing but NS 2. The rod was original when I miked it and the line weights I postedwere the line wt shown on the rod shaft. The score is now 1-1 3 You will notice I said cork check when describing the reel seat. Itwas and is black plastic. The winding check was not NS but brass, mynotes would indicate maroon silk, but they are really quite old and Icould have failed to make special note that the winding check wascovered with black thread,,, Will you settle for a draw? Ralph from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Feb 17 21:55:02 1998 Subject: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) Going to England at the end of Feb and need contacts on rodbuilders andfishing(Of course). I understand that the rivers will probably be shutdown,but there are a lot of ponds and lakes I believe are available. If I have togo to Harrad's for shopping than she has to listen to to rod makers talkaboutcane and the wisp of the fly line. Help! Mark Hallowell from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 17 21:56:41 1998 Subject: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite RO>Don RO>I stand admonished in regard to using NiAg. Henceforth nothing but NS RO>2. The rod was original when I miked it and the line weights I postedRO>were the line wt shown on the rod shaft. The score is now 1-1 RO>3 You will notice I said cork check when describing the reel seat. ItRO>was and is black plastic. The winding check was not NS but brass, myRO>notes would indicate maroon silk, but they are really quite old and IRO>could have failed to make special note that the winding check wasRO>covered with black thread,,, RO>Will you settle for a draw? RO>Ralph Ralph, I've never seen any brass fittings used on any Heddon (except for areelseat's knurled (sp?) movable ring) - but I don't want to start along "he said - he replied." I guess I mis-read the rest. I'll standcorrected. Draw - sure any day. Tight lines, Don from lblan@provide.net Tue Feb 17 22:07:50 1998 Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. The signoutside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T-shirts existtoo.: ) Larry Blan -----Original Message----- rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you candrivethere, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" and drivehome again. What a marketing coup! from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Feb 17 22:13:33 1998 Subject: Re: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) One more request for help, Also need help on Bed & Breakfast's or lodging in London or vicinity andPortsmouth. Mark Hallowell from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 17 22:22:49 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA27629 +0000 Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Been to Paradise? That is in Michigan, too. (Along with Paris, Moscow,and Hamburg if your wife is into exotic travel. Paris has/had? a fishhatchery.) George Bourke ----------From: Larry Blan Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh ValleyDate: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 8:07 PM Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. Thesignoutside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T-shirts existtoo.: ) Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you candrivethere, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" anddrivehome again. What a marketing coup! from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Wed Feb 18 05:14:33 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA29382 for; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:25:02 GMT Subject: Re: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) At 22:54 17/02/98 EST, you wrote:Going to England at the end of Feb and need contacts on rodbuilders andfishing(Of course). I understand that the rivers will probably be shutdown,but there are a lot of ponds and lakes I believe are available. If I have togo to Harrad's for shopping than she has to listen to to rod makers talkaboutcane and the wisp of the fly line. Help! Mark Hallowell It's Harrods, and it'll cost ya. Fly fishing - end of Feb. Mmmmmmm - wrong time of the year. Try talkingtothe Orvis Shop in Stockbridge, Hampshire. They may be able to arrangesomething for you. There's Dever Springs nearby, north of Winchester. Theyhave rainbows to about forty pounds. Telephone numbers throughinternationaldirectory enquiries, I guess. All this is en-route to Portsmouth, from London. You'll find loads of history in Portsmouth. The ship, Mary Rose, King Henrythe 8th's flagship, 1550 or thereabouts. The Victory, Nelson's flagship -good as new. The 'D day' exhibition. You Yanks gave us a bit of a helpinghand in that one (thank God). Also nearby, Porchester castle, which in partdates back to Roman times AD 60 - 400. The modern bits are circa 1200.Mostof Porstmouth itself is unins Rodbuilders: there's really only Edward Barder, who's rods are used by Godthe father, and probably God the Son too (or at least, I am sure both are onthe waiting list). Barder doesn't welcome visitors in passing however, anddefinitely isn't interested in simply 'chewing the fat.' He's in Newbury,which is also nearly en-route south from London. If you want to BUY a rod,then he would no doubt be of interest to you. Do the smart thing: put your wife's trip off until May. It'll take her atleast a week to do the Harrods thing, and you can exit south. THEN you'llsee some fishing. John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 18 07:42:42 1998 Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley There's also a Hell, Cayman Islands. Selling the prerequisite "to helland back" t-shirts plus "Hell Sauce" - a Tabasco like hot sauce. Saucewas good - t- shirts remained in the store. RO>Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. The signRO>outside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T-shirts existtoo.RO>: ) RO>Larry Blan RO>-----Original Message-----RO>From: Tony Young RO> RO>> rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you candriveRO>there, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" anddriveRO>home again. What a marketing coup! from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Feb 18 08:16:36 1998 0700 Subject: You ever had one of those mornings Guys, The ferrules were all blued and fit - mixed the glue, slobbed some in theferrule and on the rod. Inserted butt into ferrule, pushed a little andthings went to hell - moisture cap blew and ferrule slid up the rod.Like I didn't have anything to do today but clean a rod, reblue a ferrule etc. Hope your day is better. Don from Canerods@aol.com Wed Feb 18 08:38:56 1998 Subject: Re: Anyone want large dia. silk thread In a message dated 98-02-17 22:34:21 EST, you write: Mark and all, The thread is in old cardboard boxes - if someone has a rod museum thatcanuse it for a display (Wayne?) then I'll send it off for free. Boxes are marked - "Belding Heminway", "The Brainerd & Armstrong Co. and/or"Star Embroidery Silk" Else, I'd like to know it's being used for a good purpose and not beingcollected for possible future value gain. Don from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Wed Feb 18 08:53:52 1998 emf h9451015; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:53:40 +0100 15:52:40+0100 Subject: WG: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) IAA22431 At 22:54 17/02/98 EST, you wrote:Going to England at the end of Feb and need contacts on rodbuilders andfishing(Of course). I understand that the rivers will probably be shutdown,but there are a lot of ponds and lakes I believe are available. If I have togo to Harrad's for shopping than she has to listen to to rod makers talkaboutcane and the wisp of the fly line. Help! Mark Hallowell There are several ponds and lakes wich are avaliable the whole year. Agoodsource for information is a publication wich is called " The StillwaterTrout ".I will send it to you if you want.Mail me your adress.Or you can buy it in GB. In this publication you will find a lot of pondsdescript withcontact adresses.Mayby it will help you. ALEX from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 18 09:53:02 1998 Subject: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite I have a Heddon Peerless and it appears to have a brass winding check. Iam guessing, but they may have used a variety of materials from time totime. Robert "I'm sorry late great Vince Marinaro" Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Re: Bill Stanley FavoriteDate: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 5:54 PM RO>Don RO>I stand admonished in regard to using NiAg. Henceforth nothing butNS RO>2. The rod was original when I miked it and the line weights I postedRO>were the line wt shown on the rod shaft. The score is now 1-1 RO>3 You will notice I said cork check when describing the reel seat. ItRO>was and is black plastic. The winding check was not NS but brass,myRO>notes would indicate maroon silk, but they are really quite old and IRO>could have failed to make special note that the winding check wasRO>covered with black thread,,, RO>Will you settle for a draw? RO>Ralph Ralph, I've never seen any brass fittings used on any Heddon (except for areelseat's knurled (sp?) movable ring) - but I don't want to start along "he said - he replied." I guess I mis-read the rest. I'll standcorrected. Draw - sure any day. Tight lines, Don from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Feb 18 11:40:20 1998 0500 Subject: Nickel Silver If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' refer to? Andy from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 18 11:56:56 1998 Subject: RE:Nickel Silver RO> If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' referRO> to?RO>RO> Andy Andy, Nickel silver is a really a form of brass - a white brass. It has alsobeen called german silver and liberty silver (WWI era). I believe it wasused as a replacement for real silver in some uses - jewlery? The nickel added to the alloy is a "slippery" metal and also lowers thecorrosion rate compared to plain brass, so it's a good metal forferrules. I'm sure some of the other listers will have more details. Don Burns from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 18 12:45:34 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29319 for Subject: Re: Nickel Silver At 12:14 PM 2/18/98 -0500, you wrote: If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' refer to? Andy Andy,I may be wrong but I believe the Germans developed the alloy (?) for useduring their need to fight one of the world wars. You'll also hear itreferred to as "German Silver" in some publications. I guess it could alsohave wound up with the name "Ersatz Silver" too. Anyone want to fill inthegaps or correct me?Art from skyboss@ibm.net Wed Feb 18 12:57:44 1998 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA54816 for; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:57:41 GMT Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Rodmakers List, Nickel silver is an alloy of copper, nickel and zinc and may be consideredas bronzes with high nickel addition to improve corrosion resistance.Theirattractive appearance of silver with a yellow tint leads to their use forarchitectural , cutlery and of course reel seat applications . They alsohave good spring properties because of their slightly higher modulus ofelasticity than phosphor bronze. Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30% zinc.Used as a substitute for silver plate.CuNi 18 Zn 20. Please note that this material contains no Silver (Ag) and is also calledGerman Silver. I hope this answers your question. Ken Holderskyboss@ibm.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Nickel Silver If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' referto? Andy from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Feb 18 13:10:14 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Michigan also has a Kalamazoo. But no Timbuktu that I'm aware of. Iwas born and raised in Kalamazoo. Dick Fuhrman from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Feb 18 13:57:47 1998 Subject: Re: books At 07:51 AM 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi,The Library of Congress has a website (been there). Sorry I don't have itherebut I found it with a search engine when I was looking for books onbamboorodbuilding (yes, it listed them!).George George Thank You. I just took a tour of the L of C site. They have the bookswaiting for me at will-call. I'll be able to view both books side by side.This was a Quantum Leap for me...... I'm real proud when I just get thedamn thing turned on. Gary from feola@apireston.org Wed Feb 18 14:13:05 1998 Subject: Re: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) Hi, Stillwater Trout Angler is widely available in the United States. I'vepurchased it at bookstores up and down the East Coast. smile anyway, cjf Christopher J. FeolaDirectory, The Media Center at the American Press Institute 703.715.3333New Media Columnist, Quill Magazine feola@apireston.orgNew Media Columnist, NewsIncCorrespondent, The Cole Papers -----Original Message----- Subject: WG: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) At 22:54 17/02/98 EST, you wrote:Going to England at the end of Feb and need contacts on rodbuilders andfishing(Of course). I understand that the rivers will probably be shutdown,but there are a lot of ponds and lakes I believe are available. If I havetogo to Harrad's for shopping than she has to listen to to rod makers talkaboutcane and the wisp of the fly line. Help! Mark Hallowell There are several ponds and lakes wich are avaliable the whole year. Agoodsource for information is a publication wich is called " The StillwaterTrout ".I will send it to you if you want.Mail me your adress.Or you can buy it in GB. In this publication you will find a lot of pondsdescript withcontact adresses.Mayby it will help you. ALEX from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Feb 18 15:05:22 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Nickel Silver Thanks everyone for your responses...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Author: at tcpgate Rodmakers List, Nickel silver is an alloy of copper, nickel and zinc and may be consideredas bronzes with high nickel addition to improve corrosion resistance.Theirattractive appearance of silver with a yellow tint leads to their use forarchitectural , cutlery and of course reel seat applications . They alsohave good spring properties because of their slightly higher modulus ofelasticity than phosphor bronze. Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30% zinc.Used as a substitute for silver plate.CuNi 18 Zn 20. Please note that this material contains no Silver (Ag) and is also calledGerman Silver. I hope this answers your question. Ken Holderskyboss@ibm.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Nickel Silver If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' referto? Andy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 18 15:13:42 1998 Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:13:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Hey, I never said it was an original idea ;-) Tony On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Larry Blan wrote: Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. The signoutside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T-shirts existtoo.: ) Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you candrivethere, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" anddrivehome again. What a marketing coup! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 18 17:38:40 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite I had an original # 20 Bill stanley Special with the plastic still on thehandle and it had a brass winding check and it was wrapped in msrroonthread.Got it from Bob summers and he assured me it was all original. It alsosaidHDH or HEH on it which I found unusal compared to my other Heddon rods.IE;#17, # 10 Etc.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 18 17:45:02 1998 Subject: Re: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Hey, don't forget Climax, Mich!Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 18 17:47:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Nickel Silver I had heard the name from my father who would be 83 now refer to it asGermanNickle Silver when he talked to me about his bamboo rods many years ago. so Iguess there are a few different names for it floating around.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 18 17:51:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) You might want to look for a magazine called Flytying and Flyfishing thatcomes out of england it has alot of information on places to stay overthere.bret from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 18 17:55:08 1998 Subject: Hell What about Boring Oregon? from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 18 18:20:13 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Bill Stanley Favorite RO>I had an original # 20 Bill stanley Special with the plastic still on theRO>handle and it had a brass winding check and it was wrapped in msrroonthreadRO>Got it from Bob summers and he assured me it was all original. It alsosaidRO>HDH or HEH on it which I found unusal compared to my other Heddonrods. IE;RO>#17, # 10 Etc.RO>Bret Sounds like a very late (1954 - 5?) model #20, since it's wrapped injust the single wrap color. Is the shaft marked with 3 lines of writingas used for the last few years of production? Besides the HDH and HEHdoes it give the "F" size too? Maybe they stopped wrapping the winding checks around this time periodtoo. Must've gone cheap on the winding checks too. (started to usebrass) Don't know - no got one. The ones I've seen are all olderversions.Even my two bottom-end Heddon #8 rods have NS winding checks - butthey're from ~1952. Don B. from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 18 18:40:50 1998 0500 Subject: Re: You ever had one of those mornings boundary="------------FEB3BEA817C45626B4D603CC" --------------FEB3BEA817C45626B4D603CC Don-The other day I had the quick-set epoxy set up before I got thething seated fully, due to over application of the glue. Heated thed___ thing up to remove it and the end of the ferrule shot across theroom and hit the wall with an authoritative "Thwak!" There was muchcussing and grinding of teeth. But whatcha gonna do? Brian --------------FEB3BEA817C45626B4D603CC Don- before Heated the d___ thing up to remove it and the end of the ferrule shotacross do? Brian --------------FEB3BEA817C45626B4D603CC-- from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 18 18:43:49 1998 0500 Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley We used to go to Paradise, MI to watch the hawks and loons migratethrough Whitefish Point every april with some friends. One year mybuddy and I took the fishing gear to observe the opener in da UP. Therewas still ice in the eddies and snow in the woods. No fish. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 18 18:49:20 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite Don- Just re-did a tipping wrap for a friend on a 7' #20. Winding checkwas plastic.Looked original, needed a big face-lift but he wanted to keep itoriginal and sell it to somebody who'll probably never fish it. Iintend to haunt anybody that tries that shit with one of my rods.Course, they gotta look a whole lot better before I have to worry. Brian from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Feb 18 19:12:19 1998 Subject: Re: Hell I lived up the road from a town in Bavaria called "Wolfsegg". Beat that! Davy from dickay@alltel.net Wed Feb 18 19:19:33 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA12001 0600 Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] Mac,I don't understand your question. Are you asking if the glue (URAC 185) isstill good? I don't know.Dick Fuhrman ----------From: Cmwall@aol.com Subject: Adhesives [ Question ]Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 4:58 PM Gentlemen,I have a question reguarding the shelve life of URAC 185. Ipurchased aquart 5/97 and have glued up 3 butt & 7 tip sections. The material appearsto bein same condition as when I purchased although it is 9 mos. old. Couldsomeone answer my question? Mac from dinkydav@ime.net Wed Feb 18 19:34:08 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Up by Fulda on the old West German border was the town of Hoelle'....Hell inSerman.LET'S RIP SOME LIPS!!Maine Clave II, the Salt SequelPopham Beach,MEJuly 24, 25 ,26, 1998dinky daveBelfast,Medlkd@ime.netdinkydav@ime.nethttp://www.ime.net/~dlkd/index.html-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Hell I lived up the road from a town in Bavaria called "Wolfsegg". Beat that! Davy from Troutworld@aol.com Wed Feb 18 20:49:17 1998 Subject: soaking bamboo? I have a question?Being green as hell. to this wonderful world of bamboo! I wasstraightening mystrips of this wonderful reed, when I broke a strip into two. I realize Iwasstrong arming the piece, I broke. And that I applied to much heat. Upon,reveiwing the broken piece of bamboo, it seemed to be extremely dryinside thestrip. I thought to myself why not soak the strips of bamboo, to make themmore plyable and easier to work with? please do not castrate me, for thisquestion! Remember the only dumb question is the one that is not ask! from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 18 21:13:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: You ever had one of those mornings Brian,I thought that's how all ferrules are removed-I even have a board set uptobounce 'em off of-I haven't had any come apart yet-you have to heat thewholeferrule gradually and at once otherwise you will blow the end off.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 18 21:19:45 1998 Subject: Re: soaking bamboo? This is not a dumb question-I forget the chap who does this but he soakshiscane strips before straightening them figuring the heat treatment will drythem out. Someone else uses water and impregnation material to soak theimpregnation stuff into the cane. I haven't tried it yet but it sounds viableto me.Regards,Hank. from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 18 21:33:18 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04536 for Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] At 07:04 PM 2/18/98 -0600, you wrote:Mac,I don't understand your question. Are you asking if the glue (URAC 185) isstill good? I don't know.Dick Fuhrman ----------From: Cmwall@aol.com Subject: Adhesives [ Question ]Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 4:58 PM Gentlemen,I have a question reguarding the shelve life of URAC 185. Ipurchased aquart 5/97 and have glued up 3 butt & 7 tip sections. The material appearsto bein same condition as when I purchased although it is 9 mos. old. Couldsomeone answer my question? Mac Mac,I have a can which says it is good for a minimum of 3 mos but I seem toremember being told it would be good for a year (if stored properly). Thememory is at least 10 years old (as the can is 9 years old-- and thatliquidstuff looks exactly the same when it's hard as a rock as when it'spourable!) so I can't be positive. I have a number of a tech in Stan(m?)ford (I don't know if that's CT or CA or where--the area code shouldtell you) at a 203-348-7331 who was exceptionally helpful withCyanamidedata but that must be 15 years ago or more. I can't believe the John McGillI spoke with is still at that no., but it MAY still be a Cyanamide no! Ialso have an Exec. Off. No. in Wayne NJ---201-831-1234. One of thoseshouldpan out. You certainly don't want a rod to delaminate to save the cost of aglue packet!Good luck,Art from rmoon@ida.net Wed Feb 18 21:33:24 1998 Subject: Re: soaking bamboo? John Bokstrom soaks. I don't know any of the details Ralph from vjwilson@micron.net Wed Feb 18 22:03:13 1998 Subject: Re: Hell how about this one in north idaho. -- Athol -- leonard in idaho from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Feb 18 22:13:38 1998 dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Someone, I forget who, once said that if he owned hell and Texas, he wouldrent out Texas and live in hell. Wonder which one he was referring to. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.comTexas...as close as it gets! There's also a Hell, Cayman Islands. Selling the prerequisite "to helland back" t-shirts plus "Hell Sauce" - a Tabasco like hot sauce. Saucewas good - t- shirts remained in the store. RO>Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. ThesignRO>outside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T- shirtsexisttoo.RO>: ) RO>Larry Blan RO>-----Original Message-----RO>From: Tony Young RO> RO>> rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way youcandriveRO>there, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" anddriveRO>home again. What a marketing coup! from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Wed Feb 18 22:44:37 1998 mailfep3-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: soaking bamboo? type="54455854"; I realize I was strong arming the piece, I broke. And that I appliedto much heat. Strips will break by not applying enough heat rather than too muchheat. Trying to bend them too much before they reach an 'elastic' statewill break them every time. The hotter the strip becomes the morepliable it becomes. Just before you 'carbonize' it with too much heat,you can damn near put a 90 degree bend in a strip before it'll snap.Soaking may be a useful method for some folks  personally, I wouldn'tconsider it. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from sleach@plessey.co.za Thu Feb 19 00:21:10 1998 user@gauntlet.plessey.co.za IAA25840 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:20:47+0200 (SAT) viasmap (3.2) 19 Feb 98 08:22:41 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from skyboss@ibm.net Thu Feb 19 01:10:07 1998 byout1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA87398 for; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:10:04 GMT Subject: Re: Nickel Silver lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 19 02:52:54 1998 Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:51:52 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] More than a year for UF and Resorcinol sounds old to me. JZ pointed me to the Borden brand of liquid UF which I keep in the fridge and have done so more from it so I test before using now.I have had complete glueline failure with Resorcinol though not on a rod that was 18 months old so time does have an effect on these glues.Throw it out and get some new glue.Epoxy seems to have an indefinate life. Tony On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Art Port wrote: At 07:04 PM 2/18/98 -0600, you wrote:Mac,I don't understand your question. Are you asking if the glue (URAC 185)isstill good? I don't know.Dick Fuhrman ----------From: Cmwall@aol.com Subject: Adhesives [ Question ]Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 4:58 PM Gentlemen,I have a question reguarding the shelve life of URAC 185. Ipurchased aquart 5/97 and have glued up 3 butt & 7 tip sections. The materialappearsto bein same condition as when I purchased although it is 9 mos. old. Couldsomeone answer my question? Mac Mac,I have a can which says it is good for a minimum of 3 mos but I seem toremember being told it would be good for a year (if stored properly). Thememory is at least 10 years old (as the can is 9 years old-- and thatliquidstuff looks exactly the same when it's hard as a rock as when it'spourable!) so I can't be positive. I have a number of a tech in Stan(m?)ford (I don't know if that's CT or CA or where--the area code shouldtell you) at a 203-348-7331 who was exceptionally helpful withCyanamidedata but that must be 15 years ago or more. I can't believe the JohnMcGillI spoke with is still at that no., but it MAY still be a Cyanamide no! Ialso have an Exec. Off. No. in Wayne NJ---201-831-1234. One of thoseshouldpan out. You certainly don't want a rod to delaminate to save the cost ofaglue packet!Good luck,Art /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mduclos@mail.advertisnet.com Thu Feb 19 06:17:06 1998 with SMTP id AAA134 for ;Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:12:18 -0600 Subject: Nickel Silver Suppliers I've been trying to find sources for nickel silver (sheet, rod, or plate)and haven't had much luck. Does anyone know of such sources? thanks in advancemike d -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nickel Silver lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message-----From: Steve Leach Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 19 06:36:48 1998 Subject: adhesive and nickle silver Chris B. and/or Bill F.I just got some Epon and I was wondering about the 1 yr. shelf life statedon the can, pay attention or ignore? Michael;You can get allsizes of tubing and rod stock necessary for ferrules andreel seats from Dave Leclair at the Fly and Rod Room, Elbridge, N.Y. Healso has many other components for sale. He is a list member, so I'm sureif you post a request he will send you a brochure. John Channer from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 19 06:49:39 1998 Subject: Re: soaking bamboo? In a message dated 2/19/98 2:50:38 AM, you wrote: I have tried this method and it works fine. Soak the strips overnight, andhave at it. It's very easy. I let the strips dry for a few days beforeproceeding further, A drying cabinet is a big help. I have found no illeffects at all.. The strips are almost frighteningly pliable when wet, butreturn to their original resilience when dry. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Feb 19 07:00:56 1998 0700 Subject: Re: [1] soaking bamboo? At 21:48 18/02/98 EST, you wrote:I have a question?Being green as hell. to this wonderful world of bamboo! I wasstraightening mystrips of this wonderful reed, when I broke a strip into two. I realize Iwasstrong arming the piece, I broke. And that I applied to much heat. Upon,reveiwing the broken piece of bamboo, it seemed to be extremely dryinsidethestrip. I thought to myself why not soak the strips of bamboo, to makethemmore plyable and easier to work with? please do not castrate me, for thisquestion! Remember the only dumb question is the one that is not ask! Soaking the strips is something that John Bokstrom showed me a numberofyears ago. He was a tad concerned about the effect on the lignin/cellrelationship if the cane was soaked. from what I can recall, a "wood" prof@ a major university suggested that would be the "best" way to ensurethatthe lignin isn't broken down during heating.John splits the strips thin - soaks for a number of hours and straightens.He then drys the strips prior to other tasks on the cane.John's rods show absolutely no opens along the nodes. Have done the same technique myself - I soaked all the strips for about 6hours or so. Straightened them easily - the heat from the heat gun boilsthe water inside the cane resulting in a lot less heat requirement + thereis a lot less scorching of the strips. I straightened all, planned anintermediate taper into them and bundled them up and placed them insideofthe hot air duct of the house furnace - with 140F degree air passing bythem nearly constantly in a Alberta winter - they dry in a day or so. Soaking the cane just makes the process of straightening a whole loteasier. Mind you, it does fly in the face of those folks who tell you thatyour cane should be air dried for umpteen years prior to being used. Guess that's what makes the cane stuff so interesting. Soak if you like - you'll like the result. And would you put your real name in your notes - suspect your mothernevercalled you Troutworld. And I feel real ridiculous calling you Troutworld. regards, Don from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Feb 19 07:01:09 1998 Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] Tony Young wrote: More than a year for UF and Resorcinol sounds old to me. JZ pointed me tothe Borden brand of liquid UF which I keep in the fridge and have done so muchmore from it so I test before using now. Tony, What is the brand name of the Borden liquid uf? Regards, Steve from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 19 07:06:34 1998 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Suppliers In a message dated 2/19/98 12:20:21 PM, you wrote: Dave Leclair has some rod. Try Criterion metals in the Providence, RI aresomewhere for the sheet and plate. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 19 07:12:31 1998 ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:15:07 -0500 Subject: Re: adhesive and nickle silver John The shell epon I have comes in plastic bottles and there isno shelf life statement on the labels - I just checked. Bill has beenusing the same batch for the best part of a decade - it appears thatthere is an indefinite shelf life on the product as long as you don'tdo something like freeze it. Chris On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:25:28, john channer wrote: Chris B. and/or Bill F.I just got some Epon and I was wondering about the 1 yr. shelf life statedon the can, pay attention or ignore? Michael;You can get allsizes of tubing and rod stock necessary for ferrules andreel seats from Dave Leclair at the Fly and Rod Room, Elbridge, N.Y. Healso has many other components for sale. He is a list member, so I'm sureif you post a request he will send you a brochure. John Channer Regards Chris from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 19 08:13:54 1998 Subject: RE:Nickel Silver Suppliers RO>I've been trying to find sources for nickel silver (sheet, rod, or plate)RO>and haven't had much luck. Does anyone know of such sources? RO>thanks in advanceRO>mike d Mike, I believe Brownell's sells sheet stock - I don't know if it's 14 or 18percent content. Don B. from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 09:24:23 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08945 for Subject: Re: Nickel Silver At 11:12 PM 2/18/98 -0800, you wrote:lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message-----From: Steve Leach Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. Hey Ken, Let's look at the bright side of this little dispute; when was the last timeyou saw three people spell "nickel" right on the same day? I often think ofthe old Nawm Petersen line about "loobster" when I see things advertisedforlow-low prices and being spelled wrong in the ad. He was bragging aboutthegreat loobster dinner he had for $5.95 and Woody asked if that wasn't"lobster" he meant? Norm's reply? Nah, it's loobster, ya can't get reallobster for those prices! We've got a Volkswagen dealership in Brooklynthatcalls itself a VolkswagOn dealership! I figure with all the invoices thosejerks read every day if they can't spell the product right they're notexactly "detail" oriented!And to bring it back to the topic, that's my $.05 worth!Art from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Feb 19 09:36:47 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mention SeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Thu Feb 19 09:53:24 1998 Subject: RE: Hell Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 19 10:00:44 1998 Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:00:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Tony Young wrote: More than a year for UF and Resorcinol sounds old to me. JZ pointed metothe Borden brand of liquid UF which I keep in the fridge and have doneso muchmore from it so I test before using now. Tony, What is the brand name of the Borden liquid uf? Regards, Steve Borden CR-560 is the glue I use, but I doubt you'll find it using that designation in the US as I think this is the UK company code. You'll be able to find the same glue where you are, it'll just have a different code. Something else to consider is getting some Shell Epon 828 & Versimid V-40 hardener. This stuff works realy well and from what I've seen of epoxy, unmixed will last almost as long as the container it comes in. Epoxy is messy though and I'm sensitised to it so I prefer UF which iswater soluable.You wont get sensitised to epoxy making rods. Before going too much further though you should look into Jerry's page and check out the info by John Zimny on glues, that'll set you on the straight and narrow. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 19 10:02:30 1998 Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:02:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE: Hell On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Borge, Olaf A. wrote: Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! Are these places geographical or altered states of mind? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Feb 19 10:27:39 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Hell Definitely geographical, probably altered states of mind as well; alteredinhigh-speed reverse if you ask me!! (Although one of the best lookingwomen Iever met was from Seed Tick, Arkansas, USofA) Harry Boyd Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Borge, Olaf A. wrote: Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! Are these places geographical or altered states of mind? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 19 11:23:10 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA25572 +0000 Subject: Re::Nickel Silver "Silver" refers to color. Nickel silver is an alloy of zinc, copper, andnickel.The 18% nickel silver used in fishing equipment is type "752". George Bourke ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: RE:Nickel SilverDate: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 7:56 AM RO> If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver'referRO> to?RO>RO> Andy Andy from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 19 11:32:54 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA4256 +0000 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Suppliers www.metalmart.com is one source (no minimum order). They advertisein HSM (Home Shop Machinist magazine out of Traverse City, MI). Othersources can be found in HSM as well. George Bourke ----------From: Michael G. Duclos Subject: Nickel Silver SuppliersDate: Thursday, February 19, 1998 4:10 AM I've been trying to find sources for nickel silver (sheet, rod, or plate)and haven't had much luck. Does anyone know of such sources? thanks in advancemike d -----Original Message-----From: Ken Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 1:18 AMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message-----From: Steve Leach Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 19 11:37:10 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA6704 +0000 Subject: Re: Hell There is also Nowhere, AZ. The sign on the freeway says "Nowhere" withanarrowpointing off towards town. George Bourke ----------From: Harry Boyd Subject: Re: HellDate: Thursday, February 19, 1998 8:27 AM Definitely geographical, probably altered states of mind as well; alteredinhigh-speed reverse if you ask me!! (Although one of the best lookingwomen Iever met was from Seed Tick, Arkansas, USofA) Harry Boyd Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Borge, Olaf A. wrote: Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not tomentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! Are these places geographical or altered states of mind? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 19 11:45:22 1998 Subject: Re: Hell RO>Definitely geographical, probably altered states of mind as well;altered inRO>high-speed reverse if you ask me!! (Although one of the best lookingwomenRO>ever met was from Seed Tick, Arkansas, USofA) RO>Harry Boyd I can't help but associate this with the Tenn. fellow in the movie"Battleground" singing: "She had beautiful teeth, one pointed north and the other south" Don B. from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Feb 19 11:59:26 1998 1997)) id862565B0.00626422 ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:54:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Hell This thread is a far cry from bamboo rodmaking but I couldn't resistaddingmy own - Nowthen, Minnesota. Best regards,Ed Estlow from gburmeister@itc.nrcs.usda.gov Thu Feb 19 12:16:24 1998 (8.7.3/itc-cust.Revision: 1.4 $) Subject: Re: Hell And then there is Noname, Colorado near Glenwood Canyon on I-70. Gene from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 19 12:21:08 1998 Subject: RE:Heck Zzyzx, CA (Named after the sound of trucks going by) from gwr@seanet.com Thu Feb 19 12:39:00 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10080 for; Subject: Re: Hell You guys are missing out on the fun places. Back in PA, I was near toVirginville, Peach Bottom, and Intercourse, though if didn't luck out in anyof those places and you wound up in Blue Ball, you could always solve yourproblems in Bird-in-Hand.-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Hell Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Thu Feb 19 15:48:42 1998 Subject: Disaster PAA21017 HiI have just come back from the river after trying out my fifth rod.I set off with a two piece 8' rod and came home with a three piece rod. Therod has been made to the 212E taper.The tip section snapped clean off just inside the ferrule, half way throughthe sixth back cast. It did not go with a cracking sound but more of aquiet tear sound and the bamboo inside of the rod is not a hard splinteredfracture like I expected but more of a softer texture and an almost cleansaw cut.I am at a loss as to what I have done wrong in building the rod, can anyonegive me any help or suggestions. Thanks Mick Woodruff. . from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Thu Feb 19 16:35:51 1998 Subject: Re- Trip to England QAA23483 If you are stopping in London on your trip, go down to Pall Mall. There youwill find the Hardy shop at one end and a shop called Tight Lines (I think)at the other end along with Farlows, which sells from fly tying materialsto rods and clothing. This is quite a posh shop and is not the cheapest inEngland, however there maybe something there of interest instead ofHarrodsshopping. At the other end of the arcade that Farlows is in there is aPiscatoria shop (I think I spelt that correctly).As far as fishing goes the end of Febuary should be ok for river fishing Fisheries are usually open all year and the magazine Trout and Salmon willgive you reports for all the major rivers in the U.K. Regards Mick Woodruff. from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 16:46:31 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA15841 for Subject: Re: Disaster At 04:21 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote:HiI have just come back from the river after trying out my fifth rod.I set off with a two piece 8' rod and came home with a three piece rod.Therod has been made to the 212E taper.The tip section snapped clean off just inside the ferrule, half waythroughthe sixth back cast. It did not go with a cracking sound but more of aquiet tear sound and the bamboo inside of the rod is not a hard splinteredfracture like I expected but more of a softer texture and an almost cleansaw cut.I am at a loss as to what I have done wrong in building the rod, cananyonegive me any help or suggestions. Thanks Mick Woodruff. . Mick,First, my condolences. My only thought on the matter is how much you mayhave reduced the blank to mount the ferrule. If you removed any fibersfromthe flats to fit the tube you probably provided a hinge for the cane. Also,if you fitted the cane by hand and not by use of a lathe, you may have"canted" the action off the axis of the rod as a unit and that may havecaused a rupture. If I'm off the mark, your answers to my queries mayprovide others with data to further troubleshoot your problem. Again, I'msorry to hear of your disaster. (I once hung a fully glued and straightenedblank in a drying cabinet over a 100 watt bulb using masking tape toprovidea loop for hanging. I returned two days later to find that the tape's gluehad softened, the blank had dropped so as to lean against the bulb, and thelignin had completely burned away, reducing the blank's tips by fully sixinches. The point? We've all been there!)Good luck,Art from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 19 16:53:12 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster Mick - It's hard to say without seeing the rod. I have seen older rods faillike that due to stress from an improperly prepared ferrule. ( not enoughtaper, or no serrations, or both.) Due to the swiftness of your failure,however, I would suspect some sort of a notch effect in the cane itself.Didyou have a smooth transition from the round to the hex? Use too small aferrule and remove too many power fibers? from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 17:01:46 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA16667 for Subject: Re: Block PLanes All,I haven't been on this server long enough to know if this has been a pastproblem for you fellows (I'm only about a third of the way through thearchives) but I HATE to hollow grind plane blades (before the final"microsharpening"?) and have the patience of a Tasmanian Devil about it.Since I'm regrinding my planes to reclaim them from years ofwoodworking-only, (nary a rod built in about 10 years!)I saw somewhere (Ithink it was WOOD Magazine) that you can avoid burning the temper of theedge (my national pastime) by hot gluing a sponge to the top of the leadingedge of the blade-to-be-ground and keeping it WET. I tried it (after afashion; I didn't bother gluing it down) and I finally did a whole edgewithout burning even a little dot of the steel. I think it's even easier tojust dump the (1" by 1" by 2-2 1/2") piece of sponge in the water can andreplace it on top of the blade's edge every time you think it isn't runningenough water down the blade onto your hand. If this is news and I haven'tdescribed it well enough lemme know. Now back to the other 5 blades Ineedto "touch up".Art from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:17:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hell Athol is a scottish name there is a tune I used to play on me pipes calledAthol and Bredalben.Bret from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:31:05 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster Mick -What bamboo did you use to make the rod with ????? Wayne from vjwilson@micron.net Thu Feb 19 17:32:26 1998 Subject: Re: Hell i have always thought that "athol" is something my wifemight call me if she had a speech impediment.leonard from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:34:56 1998 Subject: Bamboo rod Magazine Hey I got my magazine today , well I got what was left of it(sniff) thestinking postoffice destroyed my copy so I can only guess what the totalcontents are. Well maybe I can get it replaced.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:34:58 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hell How about Gnawbone ,Indiana or better yet French Lick.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:37:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hell How close is Intercourse Pa. to Climax, Mich? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 18:08:42 1998 Subject: TS 4000 Wayne,Found a TS 4000 for $30.00 at Menards .Bret from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 19 18:09:26 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id TAA13591 for; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:09:21 -0500 Subject: Pictures Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 19 18:40:35 1998 Subject: adhesives Chris;Thanks for the info; if you and Bill say its good for that long thats goodenuf for me. They probably put that on the can as a C.Y.A. sort of thing.John Channer from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 19 18:44:26 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Hey, you must have gone to I.U.!Nobody knows where Gnawbone is!(Right near Storey and Bean Blossom)Brian from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 19 18:53:47 1998 Subject: plane blades Art;It sounds to me like you're sharpening on an electric ginder. Since I amthe undisputed king of burning blades on a ginder, I never get my Hockblades out of the plane if the ginder is even plugged in. Instead I put theinitial 30d. bevel on with a medium diamond stone and sharpening guide(onsstone type)then got to the 600/1000 waterstone. Hope this is of use.John Channer from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Feb 19 19:26:44 1998 Subject: Glue Hi All, I called the Nelson Paint Co. today and ordered my glue. I have decidedto go with the Urac 185. If anyone has any sugestions or caveats, goahead and shoot them at me. I heat treated in a copper tube, ala George Barnes book. I'm not tooworried at this point about getting that end perfect, I feel that I havereally gained a great deal of knowledge from the endeavor on this firstrod to this point. The thing is this darn thing looks good enough at this point that Idon't want to mess it up. I am mindful of Picasso's "I sell myselfnothing!". I am afraid I am not to there yet. I am going to start planing another rod tomorrow. I am anxious to keepthe curve going. and saw an item called Bloxygen. It reminded me that someone on thelist was looking for a gas to cover their varnishes. This is a mixtureof inert gasses, that is made expressly for that purpose. Sold in aspray can for $8.95. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Feb 19 19:57:53 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14973; Thu, 19 Feb 199820:57:13 Subject: Re: Hell At 06:36 PM 2/19/98 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:How close is Intercourse Pa. to Climax, Mich? Perhaps to far? from wmopper@ccaonline.com Thu Feb 19 20:01:39 1998 20:02:39-0600 Subject: RE: Hell =_NextPart_000_01BD3D71.54708160" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3D71.54708160 Sure Gnawbone is well known. Even here in Illinois we know of theFightingPossums of Gnawbone U. Bill ---------- Subject: Re: Hell Hey, you must have gone to I.U.!Nobody knows where Gnawbone is!(Right near Storey and Bean Blossom)Brian ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3D71.54708160 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3D71.54708160-- from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 19 20:01:52 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA19845 for; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:01:48 -0500 Subject: Re: plane blades john channer wrote: Art;It sounds to me like you're sharpening on an electric ginder. Since I amthe undisputed king of burning blades on a ginder, I never get my Hockblades out of the plane if the ginder is even plugged in. Instead I put theinitial 30d. bevel on with a medium diamond stone and sharpeningguide(onsstone type)then got to the 600/1000 waterstone. Hope this is of use.John Channer John you should check out the Makita electric wetstone, it has a castiron system for holding jointer blades and planer blades but can be used or so. Makes the perfect edge.......runs real slow and uses water tocool and remove metal from building up in the stone.....the wheels areabout 7" in dia....down to 9000 grit I think.Dave Price from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Thu Feb 19 20:11:02 1998 (AST) 19 Feb 98 21:16:19 -0500 0500 19 Feb 98 21:16:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures Dave nice page I hope that you have the time to expand it. By the way nicefish. Also where did you get the design for the binder?-----Original Message----- Subject: Pictures Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 20:16:55 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hell Naw never went to IU just good at Indiana history.bret from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Thu Feb 19 20:22:19 1998 (AST) 19 Feb 98 21:27:43 -0500 0500 19 Feb 98 21:27:11 -0500 Subject: planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01BD3D7D.2127BA60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BD3D7D.2127BA60 I have a stupid question. Is the Stanley 9.5 called that because it is =9.5 inches long or is there a model 9.5? My hardware shop is no help in =this. I hope someone here can help me..John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BD3D7D.2127BA60 I have a stupid question. Is the Stanley 9.5= that because it is 9.5 inches long or is there a model 9.5? My hardware = no help in this. I hope someone here can help me..John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BD3D7D.2127BA60-- from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 19 20:37:32 1998 Subject: Official Grayrock 98 Fly About a year and a half ago, our friend, Sam got inspired in creating anewhex pattern. Sam who is conscience of the current social concerns becamecreative with a glow in the dark condom. Using small strips of the condom,Samties these strips into the extended bodies of his favorite hex pattern.Whenfishing the flies - hit them with a flashlight and they can be seen with aerie green glow - which the fish find interesting enough to chomp on. Oh -thename of the pattern - Safe Hex - the official fly for Grayrock 98 Wayne from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 19 20:43:07 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA21838 for; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:43:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures John McKinnon wrote: Dave nice page I hope that you have the time to expand it. By the waynicefish. Also where did you get the design for the binder?-----Original Message-----From: David Price Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 7:22 PMSubject: Pictures Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price Saw a design on someones page a little while ago, And adapted it tomaterials that I had around......when I get more time I could putdrawings up on the page if there is interest, but it is basicly the sameone I saw on one of the lister's pages....I have to find a better beltor make one out of surgical tubing(rubber)with a few raps of stringinside...Need to add a tray to catch glue also.... Dave Price (going for steelies in the next couple of days)Thanks for the comments, The page will be real big some day....I'm intomany hobbies and build a lot of my own tools and things....and might try to put real time shop video on the net soon!!!!!(in the shop machining afly reel at the moment) from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Feb 19 20:54:29 1998 Subject: Re: planes John McKinnon wrote: I have a stupid question. Is the Stanley 9.5 called that because it is9.5 inches long or is there a model 9.5? My hardware shop is no helpin this. I hope someone here can help me..John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca It's not 9-1/2" John, it is their standard block plane. The numbers onit are changed, I believe it is a 1220 or something on that order. from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Thu Feb 19 21:28:55 1998 8.7/8.7) idWAA14914 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:26:48 - Subject: Re: Bamboo rod Magazine Sounds as if the same guy (mis)handled my Premier Issue of the magazine- afew ragged corners and the mailing label was almost completelydestroyed.Hope the next issues arrive in better shape.Hey I got my magazine today , well I got what was left of it(sniff) thestinking postoffice destroyed my copy so I can only guess what the totalcontents are. Well maybe I can get it replaced.Bret from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 22:11:25 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA15071 for Subject: Re: plane blades At 04:42 PM 2/19/98, you wrote:Art;It sounds to me like you're sharpening on an electric ginder. Since I amthe undisputed king of burning blades on a ginder, I never get my Hockblades out of the plane if the ginder is even plugged in. Instead I put theinitial 30d. bevel on with a medium diamond stone and sharpeningguide(onsstone type)then got to the 600/1000 waterstone. Hope this is of use.John Channer John,I only do this once every millenium, to get a hollow-grind (ground?)on the blades so they're easier to "micro-hone" (only the leading andtrailing edges sit on the stone and not the whole damn face). It reallyworks well when you're just touching up the edge and it lasts for about adozen or more "touch-ups" before you must hollow-grind again. Once youfigure how to not burn the @$^&$#^%# thing it's even a feeling ofaccomplishment! (It's also a matter of honor or frugality that I won'tspendwhat they get for a waterstone.) Have you ever tried the "Scary Sharp"method of sharpening? I'm just giving it a workout and so far it seems todoas good a job as my Arkansas stones! I saw a post somewhere on the web(here?) that one swipe of the blade removes the grit from the paper, butthat has not been my experience. I use a little WD 40 as a lube and thepaper lasts just fine (relatively speaking). I've been a heavy duty woodworking hobbyist and garage saler andover the years have been lucky ( or greedy) enough to amass about 5Stanley9 1/2s ,a 60 , and several of those little "skunk-tail" planes so when Idecide "to sharpen" it's no small undertaking. Since I'm fortunate enoughto have them I like to have a bunch of the 9 1/2 s set up so I don't have tostop in the midst of something to rewhet. I don't think I was getting themsharp enough in the past because, while I had no problems with thegluelines, I kept getting bursitis type problems in my planing shoulder--enough so that I finally gave up the planing after 20 rods. You can bet I'mwatching the thread on waxing the planes VERRRRRY closely! Hell, with allthe spares I'm lucky to have, I can use a waxed one down to the last fewthou s and then switch to an uncontaminated one! I'm also investigatingthedesign with the 3/4" groove down the center, but that seems to leavesomegap in your predicted accuracy unless you again switch to another,perfect,plane. Anyway, thanks for the response. Be talking to you,Art from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 22:21:12 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA15670 for Subject: Re: Glue At 07:27 PM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi All, I called the Nelson Paint Co. today and ordered my glue. I have decidedto go with the Urac 185. If anyone has any sugestions or caveats, goahead and shoot them at me. I heat treated in a copper tube, ala George Barnes book. I'm not tooworried at this point about getting that end perfect, I feel that I havereally gained a great deal of knowledge from the endeavor on this firstrod to this point. The thing is this darn thing looks good enough at this point that Idon't want to mess it up. I am mindful of Picasso's "I sell myselfnothing!". I am afraid I am not to there yet. I am going to start planing another rod tomorrow. I am anxious to keepthe curve going. and saw an item called Bloxygen. It reminded me that someone on thelist was looking for a gas to cover their varnishes. This is a mixtureof inert gasses, that is made expressly for that purpose. Sold in aspray can for $8.95. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve,I know I'm coming out of left field with this info, and you shouldwait 'til others chime in on the subject, but I had a rod delaminate on meafter a few months and after the spitting and cursing was over I contactedatech rep at American Cyanamide. His suggestion was that the ratio on thecanwas for material that is more porous than cane and that, instead of 2 to 1 any grief. Did it affect the action? I can't say. But it certainly held therods together after MY first disaster. Good luck,Art from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Feb 19 22:57:18 1998 Subject: Re: Glue At 11:38 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote: You might want to go to Rodmaker page Jerry has a FAQ by J. Zimny thatcould help.Gary At 07:27 PM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi All, I called the Nelson Paint Co. today and ordered my glue. I have decidedto go with the Urac 185. If anyone has any sugestions or caveats, goahead and shoot them at me. I heat treated in a copper tube, ala George Barnes book. I'm not tooworried at this point about getting that end perfect, I feel that I havereally gained a great deal of knowledge from the endeavor on this firstrod to this point. The thing is this darn thing looks good enough at this point that Idon't want to mess it up. I am mindful of Picasso's "I sell myselfnothing!". I am afraid I am not to there yet. I am going to start planing another rod tomorrow. I am anxious to keepthe curve going. and saw an item called Bloxygen. It reminded me that someone on thelist was looking for a gas to cover their varnishes. This is a mixtureof inert gasses, that is made expressly for that purpose. Sold in aspray can for $8.95. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve,I know I'm coming out of left field with this info, and you shouldwait 'til others chime in on the subject, but I had a rod delaminate on meafter a few months and after the spitting and cursing was over Icontacted atech rep at American Cyanamide. His suggestion was that the ratio on thecanwas for material that is more porous than cane and that, instead of 2 to 1 meany grief. Did it affect the action? I can't say. But it certainly held therods together after MY first disaster. Good luck,Art from rhicks@d.umn.edu Fri Feb 20 00:16:16 1998 00:16:13 -0600 mail.d.umn.edu (8.8.6.Beta3/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA28972 for Subject: Re: Glue 199819:27:43 -0800 Steve, I just glued my first three rod sections with URAC 185 last night. I usedthe 4:1 volume ratio (resin:hardener) that the Garrison and Cattanachbooksrecommend. The tips sections went well but I almost messed the buttsection up by having a binder failure during the first wrap. The rubberband that I use on the big pulley of my Garrison style binder broke in halfeither from being dissolved by the glue or from erosion by the bindingcord. Anyway, keep some spare rubber bands handy if you have a Garrisonbinder. Here are some other tips that may help you. 1. I sieved the powdered hardener with a paint sieve. It removed severallarger chips in this walnut powder. Make sure you don't remove the clearto whitish crystals (ammonium chloride); they are the real catalyst. 2. Have everything laid out (eg. binder already assembled, glue mixing andapplying area ready, straightening area covered with newspaper, etc.) andrun through the process once before you glue. Once you start to mix theglue, you only have about 15-20 minutes before it starts to thicken somuchthat everything is really tacky. Then you don't have time to go look forsomething or make a new binder belt. A toothbrush worked really well forapplying the glue. I wiped the rods down with a damp sponge to removeexcess glue after binding (had a bucket with warm water and a spongeready)but always wiped each section down afterwards with a dry cloth before Ididany straightening. 3. KNOW YOUR BINDER. I practiced binding the six strips of tip and buttsections without glue to find the best tension on the binding string andthe best weight on the cord running through the binder. I foundcombinations for the tip and butt sections that would not put a twist ineither of them. This really helped build my confidence. I used a 1 lb.weight on the first binding pass for the tips and then a 1.5 lb weight onthe second pass. For the butt section, I used a 1.5 lb weight on the firstpass and then a 2.5 lb. weight on the second pass. There were no twists inany of the sections I glued and they came out of the binder prettystraight. I made a new binding cord for each section, so I started fresh instead ofhaving a gluey one. In hindsight, I should have checked and changed therubber band on the large pulley on the binder. 4. I built a drying tube before I glued like many people on this list (alaGarrison). I made it from a 1.5 inch PVC tube (54 in. long) and a wood boxwith a 100 watt light bulb (chimney effect). My basement is alwaysnearly55 deg. F during the day and night if I do not have the electric heat on(it's cool in Duluth, MN). The drying tube temperature is about 20 deg.higher than ambient (eg. it is usually 78-80 deg. F in the drying tube whenthe basement is 55 deg. F). I think this was a good move since the labelon URAC says not to glue below 65 deg. F. When I glued, I boosted thebasement temperature up to 65 deg. F but held the mixed glue in an icebathto increase the open time (It didn't seem to help that much). Make surethat you mix the glue thoroughly. I mixed for 5 minutes. This left lessthan 15 minutes to apply the glue, bind a section, and straighten. I madefresh glue (about 1 oz.) for each section as I needed it. I felt like Ijust had enough time to get everything done. If I would have had twists ormany kinks in each section from bad binding, then I don't know what Iwouldhave done (besides curse, pull my hair out, and panic). 5. Have "The Force" with you. I was scared to death as I was doing itthis first time and I probably got a little lucky. It took me about 20-35minutes per section to glue, bind, and straighten depending on how long ittook me at the binder. Having everthing laid out where I needed it andthen first running through the entire process without using glue reallyhelped me. Good luck. I hope your first attempt turns out as good as I think mine did(I'll know for sure when I finish the rod). P.S. I also had to build up my courage to glue the sections having neverseen it done before. I finished planing two weeks ago but built the dryingtube and also just gazed at the "beautiful" planed strips (to me anyway)before I "messed" them up with glue. ================================================= Subject: Glue Hi All, I called the Nelson Paint Co. today and ordered my glue. I have decidedto go with the Urac 185. If anyone has any sugestions or caveats, goahead and shoot them at me. I heat treated in a copper tube, ala George Barnes book. I'm not tooworried at this point about getting that end perfect, I feel that I havereally gained a great deal of knowledge from the endeavor on this firstrod to this point. The thing is this darn thing looks good enough at this point that Idon't want to mess it up. I am mindful of Picasso's "I sell myselfnothing!". I am afraid I am not to there yet. I am going to start planing another rod tomorrow. I am anxious to keepthe curve going. and saw an item called Bloxygen. It reminded me that someone on thelist was looking for a gas to cover their varnishes. This is a mixtureof inert gasses, that is made expressly for that purpose. Sold in aspray can for $8.95. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 20 01:08:02 1998 Subject: plane blades Dave;Sounds like something I should look into, we have a tool store that dealsMakita here in Durango( this is more of a miracle than it sounds).I'veheard of electric wetstone systems, but I didn't know that they came withstones that fine. Thanks for the tip.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 20 01:25:05 1998 Subject: plane blades Art;Please don't even say the word bursitis, I had it in my right shoulderabout 20 yrs. ago, still hurts to think about it. The cortizone shot theygave me for it hurt even worse. I wanted to try a plane with a groove init, but there isn't a machinist in this town, so I used some stainlesssteel tape I used to use for heat protection on Corian countertops and itworks great. I have to replace it for every rod, but I figure I've gotabout 30 rods worth left. I don't have to sharpen more than 2 blades for arod and I don't gouge up my forms any more. As far as planing accuracygoes, I set the blade so it will just touch the form, then back off a hair.Works for me.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 20 01:47:04 1998 Subject: glue Steve;I used Urac for my first 6 rods, works fine, but you have to work fast andkeep a bucket of water handy, its real sticky. The last few rods I built Iused ammonium chloride dissolved in water for the catalyst instead of thepowder that came with it and it seems much better to work with, a littlemore time to straiten and thinner consistency, also better glue lines andmy rods measure out much closer to the intended taper than with thepowdercatalyst you get with the resin. I was having a lot of trouble with mysections being much fatter than they should be. This came recomended tome I haven't used the rods I've glued this way enuf to know, yet.Good luck toyou.John Channer from mduclos@mail.advertisnet.com Fri Feb 20 06:21:35 1998 with SMTP id AAA160 for ;Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:19:00 -0600 Subject: Thanks for NiAg suppliers I appreciate the quick response. I contacted www.metalmart (the web sitewasconvenient since I have to do this stuff after work or on weekends). Theyhave just what I need.Thanks again!!mike d -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Suppliers www.metalmart.com is one source (no minimum order). They advertisein HSM (Home Shop Machinist magazine out of Traverse City, MI). Othersources can be found in HSM as well. George Bourke ----------From: Michael G. Duclos Subject: Nickel Silver SuppliersDate: Thursday, February 19, 1998 4:10 AM I've been trying to find sources for nickel silver (sheet, rod, or plate)and haven't had much luck. Does anyone know of such sources? thanks in advancemike d -----Original Message-----From: Ken Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 1:18 AMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message-----From: Steve Leach Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from rmoon@ida.net Fri Feb 20 07:30:47 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Please!! You are driving me to Hell. Can we not let this childishthread to some other list.? from RBausum@radiantsystems.com Fri Feb 20 07:40:08 1998 (8.8.5/SMI-5.4-PSI) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Hell I seem to recall a Troutman and Troutville in Southwest Virginia! -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 6:53 PM Subject: Hell What about Boring Oregon? from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 20 07:40:32 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Amen Ralph Jerry from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 20 07:45:21 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26161 for Subject: Re: plane blades At 11:13 PM 2/19/98, you wrote:Art;Please don't even say the word bursitis, I had it in my right shoulderabout 20 yrs. ago, still hurts to think about it. The cortizone shot theygave me for it hurt even worse. I wanted to try a plane with a groove init, but there isn't a machinist in this town, so I used some stainlesssteel tape I used to use for heat protection on Corian countertops and itworks great. I have to replace it for every rod, but I figure I've gotabout 30 rods worth left. I don't have to sharpen more than 2 blades for arod and I don't gouge up my forms any more. As far as planing accuracygoes, I set the blade so it will just touch the form, then back off a hair.Works for me.John Channer John,You've verified what an orthopedist told me back then; If I give youa shot of this (I think he said it woul