from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 1 08:10:20 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: planing forms john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them was drivingmecrazy. >Snip from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 1 08:15:15 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Waterstone flattening Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I noticed the discussion onwaterstones tendency to be less than perfectly flat. I just got one, a1000/6000 combo with Nagura stone, and it doesn't sharpen nearrly asquickly as fine sandpaper on glass. I don't want to buy a $75 diamondstone to flatten a $30 waterstone. How would one flatten with glass andsandpaper? 1000 grit? 800 grit? 2000 grit? No paper at all?Thanks in advanceHarry Boyd from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 1 08:43:05 1998 Subject: planing forms Harry;A planer designed for metal sounds like the ideal tool to me, I didn't knowthere was such a critter.Talk to your friend, but it seems to me that ifyour forms wre bolted together first, then run through his planer, theyshould come out either perfect or maybe just needing a slite touch upbefore grooving.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 1 09:02:21 1998 Subject: stress curves Any and All;I've just been at Frank Stetzer's version of Hexrod (BTW, many thanks toFrank from me and my server, I think my bill is going to increasedramatically). I was wondering if anyone would care to help me tounderstand how the differences in stress curve shapes when comparingrodsof the same length and line wieght translate into different rod actionsand ability to roll cast, distance cast, etc. I was comparing Garrison's212, Dickersons 8014 and Wayne's 8052 this morning and they all haveverydifferent and individual stress curves. I have built the Garrison rod andknow how it casts and will build the others as soon as time and budgetallow, but I would like broaden my understanding of theory first. Pleaseemail me direct with any comments.Thanks in advance.John(stress curve challenged)ChannerDurango, Co. from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 1 09:14:41 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdriving mecrazy. >Snip I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metal planer,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Any suggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydOnce you take the hard "skin" off of CRS, stresses are relieved and itbegins to do a dimensional "dance". If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.Remember, Garrison used CRS because it was cheap and available. Thereare other products.John from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 1 10:07:42 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: planing forms J. C. Zimny wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdrivingme crazy. >Snip > I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metal planer,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Any suggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydJZ wrote ... If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.... There are other products.Forgive my ignorance, John, but what is normalized steel? If youhavesuggestions for materials other than CRS, I'd love to hear them. Thanks, Harry from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 10:26:03 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA7807 Subject: Re: Books Hi, If you have Stuart Kirkfield's book, I am interested. As for getting ridof theentire lot to people who will appreciate them, I'd suggest first getting alist to-gether. Then post to the classified ad at http://www.flyfishing.com orsomeof the other ones. Then you'll be prepared when you get responses asking Good luck,George ----------From: Bill Fink Subject: BooksDate: Thursday, January 29, 1998 4:08 PM To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to passonto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadlytheyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collectionofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 1 10:35:05 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms-Larger Reel Seat-Up or Down John,I forgot to ask you if you want the larger reel seat i'm making foryou,my normal up-locking or do you want me to make it down-locking like theothertwo? Dave LeClair from madcliff@mssl.uswest.net Sun Feb 1 10:39:21 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA01021 for Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube I've been diluting Helmsman about 10% with mineral spirits for dipping and have gotten excellent results. I have a question for you folks who are using polyurethane and drying rods in the tube to keep dust out. Are you doing anything special with regard to the recoat time (normally 2-8 hours)? I tried drying a rod in a 3" tube a couple of years ago, and it styed tacky for a day and a half. This was in the summer, with the temperature in the 80s nd low humidity. --Matt C.Missoula, Montana from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 1 10:48:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Special threads In a message dated 2/1/98 4:28:34 AM, you wrote: Hank - Thanks for the offer, but I have determined to go with the Hoppe'sthread, which is 5/16-27. Listmember Larry Blan advises me that anadapter isavailable from Brownells that would also allow the use of Britishstandardimplements. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 1 11:10:19 1998 Subject: Makers Rod Update If you haven't seen it yet, the current issue of Fly Rod & Reel(march/april) is on the street. In it you will see the excellent newsreleasethat Jim Butler did for The Makers Rod including Larry Cory's artwork. I'msure that this will be a great help in getting the project rolling towards asell out. As I sit at my computer I can look over the clutter across the loftand see cartons and cartons of shipping tubes containing the many partsthatin the next little bit will become the rod. In talking with Steve Southardyesterday we are both still convinced that however the outcome theprojectwill be a suscess. The potential for the local watersheds is 2 1/2 timesthatof the local fund raising of the George Mason Chapter banquet and raffles.Mixthat in with the matching funds that are consistantly made available andyoubegin to see the significance that this fund raiser could have on the localfisheries.Besides the FR&R piece - Mark Metcalf at The Bamboo Fly Rod has givenspace as well (hope to see something the first of next week) along withseveral other flyfishing organization newsletters and local newspapers.As a side issue concerning the planning of TTBBBQ IV. We are looking tokeep the costs of both the Rodmakers get together and the BBQ at aminimal butyet have the same offerings as in the years past (aprons - Picnic at Franks-Friday night pizza party hence forth to be known as Rodmakers RoadkillCookoff- The BBQ). One of the overheads that many may not realize is the cost ofthetent for the weekend which runs in the $500 - $600.And as the time to the get together grows nearer perhaps some thoughttothe activities - a big issue from last year is the need for added workspacewhich will be addressed with the addition of several workbenches underthetent. So in your plans include your tools for tuning and use.Well I need to take one of those six little pills that doc gave me to curethe crud. LaterWayne from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Feb 1 12:28:41 1998 Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube In a message dated 2/1/98 8:42:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,madcliff@mssl.uswest.net writes: I have a question for you folks who are using polyurethane and drying rods in the tube to keep dust out. Are you doing anything special with regard to the recoat time (normally 2-8 hours)? I tried drying a rod in a 3" tube a couple of years ago, and it styed tacky for a day and a half. This was in the summer, with the temperature in the 80s nd low humidity. I leave my rods in the tube overnight with a rag draped over the top.since rod making isn't my day job, I can't recoat any sooner than18 hours. For final drying, once the varnish sets up, but still sortof soft, I take the rod out and hang it up from a rafter. When it is atthat point dust won't stick, but if you press your finger on the varnishit will leave an impression. I leave it to dry for at least three daysbefore I start handling it. Another factor for me might be the factthat I thin the polyurethane by 20% with paint thinner. I don't likethe extra thick glossy varnish jobs I've seen on some rods, it tendsto round out the hex points. I like flat flats and sharp hex points. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Feb 1 12:47:06 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: hide glue Making a Waterproof Hot Hide Glue Anyone who has built a violin or cello with high quality hot hide glueonly to watch it come apart in the humidity of a hot muggysummer day will find this method interesting. Because it is so simple tomake, I don't doubt that the old Italian violin makers knewabout it and used it. After all, they had to deal with the same problemsof humidity that we do. Incidentally, this method also rendersthe dried glue less susceptible to attack from molds, insects, andbacteria. I found this method and adapted it from a book called Henley's Formulas.It can not be found in the section heading of glues orwaterproof glues. Rather it is hidden somewhere in the book underanother heading which I can't remember. In fact, the authordescribes the accident that caused the discovery but only as it relatedto something else.> My method for making waterproof hide glue is as follows: make a supersaturated solution of alum (aluminum sulfate). Next, takeone teaspoon of this solution and add it to a quart of water. Then usethis water to soften your glue granules. When the glue hasabsorbed what water it will, heat it and use it. You can not add moresolution to the glue once it has been heated as it will causethe glue to coagulate into a single lump. But you can thin this "alumed"glue with tap water. I use a convex glass plate to cover myglue; it allows the condensate to drip back into the pot. Because of thepresence of alum, this glue resists spoilage for some time. Ifind also that it can be allowed to cool, chilled and reheated severaltimes before it begins to disintegrate. from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Feb 1 13:06:20 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening In a message dated 2/1/98 6:21:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I use a rather large 18" diameter circular flat metal plate. I justsprinkle water on it and start swirling it around. I have used apiece of plate glass, and it works okay, but the sound of thewaterstone grinding on the glass got on my nerves. But hey, if the fine sandpaper sharpening method works foryou, then do it that way. I haven't tried it myself, but I readabout it a long time ago in a woodworking magazine, andI don't see why it wouldn't work. The same principles apply,polish the back of your blade, and polish off the microscopicburr, and it should be just as sharp. Darryl Hayashida from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sun Feb 1 13:42:57 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size SalarFly wrote: Take the 45" measurement, subtract it from the 50" measurement,divide by 5 (the distance from 45 to 50). This is the diameter changeper inch. Since you are looking for the 48" measurement, which is twoinches from the 50" measurement, take the diameter change per inch,multiply by two and subtract it form the 50" measurement. This isn't meant to be a flame or anything, but isn't it obvious how tofigure this out? Or am I turning into the list curmudgeon? Darryl Hayashida Just remember, everyone is ignorant, just in different areas. from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 1 13:58:47 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size george, darryl, others. I sent him the entire rod in 1 in. increments, i think, subsequently, hedecided to build a different rod? jerry from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Feb 1 15:15:05 1998 Subject: Classicane? All, I bought a near-mint (unfished - varnish on one stripper winding iscracked) 9' Classicane "Steve Morgan" (3/2) rod today, bag & tube. Butt& mid have nice 3x3 node spacing, tips less successful at spacings. I was told that the rod was maybe 10 years old, no other details exceptmaybe it's from a Colorado company. Can anyone tell me about the builder and/or any other details? Is thereany source books with any Classicane info? Lastly, how about it's marketprice? Don Burns from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 17:12:06 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA11850 Subject: Re: Classicane? Believe Classicane was/is a California company though in the 70s some oftheir rods were apparently built (or assembled, since that is what DeBellappears to have done a lot of) by Fred DeBell in Denver. Try here for someinfo http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm At 12:28 PM 2/1/98 -0600, you wrote:All, I bought a near-mint (unfished - varnish on one stripper winding iscracked) 9' Classicane "Steve Morgan" (3/2) rod today, bag & tube. Butt& mid have nice 3x3 node spacing, tips less successful at spacings. I was told that the rod was maybe 10 years old, no other details exceptmaybe it's from a Colorado company. Can anyone tell me about the builder and/or any other details? Is thereany source books with any Classicane info? Lastly, how about it's marketprice? Don Burns cc: INT:CaneClinic@aol.com Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 1 17:39:22 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves John -I'll throw out what could be termed the short explaination. Over the years I have found that the term 'stress curve' can be replacedwith a less intimidating 'character curve'. I don't know why but it seemlikeit a an easier pill to swallow for some reason. So let's take a look at whatvaries about the character of rods the generic terms fast, medium, slow,¶bolic have been and are used today - only on a newer material. A fastrodis one that when loaded in casting flexes most in the upper regions of therodand even as line (or tip load) is added increases flexing downward at aslowrate. At the other extreme is the slow rod that when loaded in castingflexeslower into the rod and quickly flexes into the handle. If you were to lookthe'character curve of each you would see this. The fast rod would have agreateramplitude then the slower rod. Defining amplitude as the difference fromhighstress values to low stress values. Remember the stress values controltheamount of material or restance to action at the different locationsthrough arod. Now let's change the statement to say - The greater the amplitude thegreater the range of loading of the rod - the lower the amplitude the lowerthe range of loading. You're familiar with what the Garrison semi - parabolic graphs to. Thegraph that best describes the parabolic would be one that looks like areversed 'J'. With the action being described as a flexible tip with a stiffmid section and a softer butt. The stress values would start highdesending tolower values that bottom out graph wise in the mid section and then raiseagain in the butt section. A parabolic can have different amplitudes thusdifferent speeds. from your example rods the Dickerson is a fast action - the garrison aslower action - the 8052 is a parabolic Wayne from lblan@provide.net Sun Feb 1 17:52:45 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening Harry; you can find diamond stones for far less than $75. It is well worththe investment. The time saved by using the diamond stone and then goingtothe fine grit waterstones is amazing. Having a good edge makesresharpeninggo much faster too. You can use silicon carbide paper on a flat piece of glass, I use a 14"x14"piece of float glass, it works just fine. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Waterstone flattening Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I noticed the discussion onwaterstones tendency to be less than perfectly flat. I just got one, a1000/6000 combo with Nagura stone, and it doesn't sharpen nearrly asquickly as fine sandpaper on glass. I don't want to buy a $75 diamondstone to flatten a $30 waterstone. How would one flatten with glass andsandpaper? 1000 grit? 800 grit? 2000 grit? No paper at all?Thanks in advanceHarry Boyd from RONGEY@aol.com Sun Feb 1 18:08:05 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening I use 320 grit wet/dry paper (dry) supported on the table of my table saw(flat) or my band saw. Seems like a piece of plate glass would be asatisfactory flat surface as well. I flatten my stone after it hasthoroughlydried, since it seems to be easier than when it is wet. My $.02. Ken Rongey from d_price@global2000.net Sun Feb 1 18:58:13 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id TAA24973 for; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:58:10 -0500 Subject: Progress Hi all,Have been working the last week on tooling up to start splitting cane.I have my rough planing form done( purpleheart 40" as per Garrison)andmy preliminary planing forms done(also purpleheart with duplex ajustingscrews ala "Garrison" 40" also).I used 1/4-20 and 5/16-24 dies for theduplex screws wich where made on my lathe.I am also 90% on my bindingmachine that I'l have to get pictures on the net somewhere soon so youcan see,easyer than trying to explain. I've deffinetly had to much freetime lately!!!!.Oh, by the way nice post Wayne on the stress curves thing!!!!!,thanks itwas very helpfull to better understand that topic!!. Dave Price (getting picts on a site soon !) from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 1 19:21:54 1998 Subject: stress curves Wayne;Thanks alot for the clarification. I have read most of the archives,including your explanation of the math involved on Jerry's homepage, but Istill didn,t quite get it.Having never cast a parabolic rod I'm still alittle mystified by that term, but from what I read , I take it that aparabolic won't collapse as soon ( orshould I say cast a longer linewithout the cast collapsing ) as a rod with a more conventional taper.Isthe curve of your 8052 fairly typical of parabolics? Also, if I alter thecurve of the Dickerson to take some ,but not all, of the hump out of themiddle,will I wind up with a slitely slower action, but one that is stillfaster than Garrison's? Thanks again for all your help.John Channer from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 1 20:10:03 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms Harry Boyd wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdrivingme crazy. >Snip > > I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metalplaner,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Anysuggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydJZ wrote ... If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.... There are other products.Forgive my ignorance, John, but what is normalized steel? If youhavesuggestions for materials other than CRS, I'd love to hear them.Thanks, HarryNormalized steel is stress relieved. John from Brandstay@aol.com Sun Feb 1 20:50:49 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening In a message dated 98-02-01 18:56:53 EST, you write: Larry, what grit diamond stone did you get/JA from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 1 20:52:50 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Drip Dip Tube Matt,I find that it takes about 3 days to get the finish hard enuf to removethesticks from the tube. This is in less than 50% r.h. with the temp. around 80deg. f. If I dilute the spar 10% it might be quicker.Regards,Hank.P.S. As I sand between coats the time between coats can be long. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:08:03 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves Wayne, Darryl, et al,Am I missing something here? I assume that the higher the stress curveatany given point the greater the bend in the rod. If the high point of thecurve is closer to the tip the "faster" the action,lower down the slower. Ifyou got a double barrel shape you might have 2 spikes on the stress curve.IfI'm all wet on this somebody ought to straighten me out, please.Hank- I just learned to turn this thing on -Woolman. from lblan@provide.net Sun Feb 1 21:16:42 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening I'm just using a fine right now. I'm still considering the medium. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening In a message dated 98-02-01 18:56:53 EST, you write: the fine grit waterstones is amazing. Having a good edge makesresharpeninggo much faster too. >> Larry, what grit diamond stone did you get/JA from DRinker370@aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:32:49 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening Ive been using a broken piece of 3/8 glass shelving and 100 or 220 gritwetdry sandpaper for years. By wetting the glass and sandpaper I retain aflatsurface that adheres nicely to the glass. I have always found cupping ofthestones to be fairly hard to stop even when carefully honing blades. Iusually touch up my stones frequently because of this. Leaving yourstonessubmerged is water is a good way to keep them in condition. Dave from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:45:57 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves The whole stress cure thing can be daunting. I hate it when a graph of arodturns out totally different from what I thought it would look like. I guessitmade a little more sense when I found a rod that casted ugly and thencouldsee why. It seems to be where a rod bends and how much as far as howpeaks andvalleys go. Comparing a Garrison 201E curve to a Payne 98 helped me grasp theconcept of how amplitude affects a rod's fastness. If you get a chance tocasta parabolic and look at a curve it seems to be a little clearer how a curveplays in the real world. This whole rod design stuff is very cool...too bad ittakes so long to actually get to try an idea out, especially if you're closebut not right on your projected goal. "I've been there, I know"-Wolfman Jack Rob from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 2 01:36:36 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves In a message dated 2/1/98 7:14:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: Am I missing something here? I assume that the higher the stresscurve atany given point the greater the bend in the rod. If the high point of thecurve is closer to the tip the "faster" the action,lower down the slower.Ifyou got a double barrel shape you might have 2 spikes on the stresscurve. IfI'm all wet on this somebody ought to straighten me out, please. Look at a Garrison rod stress curve. It goes up to it's maximumpoint, then pretty much stays there all the way to the handle. That'swhat I call a slow rod. Then look at the stress curve of the Cattanach7' 4 wt. 2 piece it has a max point near the tip, but what makes it fastis it drops down to 150,000 at about mid way to the handle. I postedmy interpretation of stress curves a few moths ago, with ascii artdrawings of the graphs and explanations. I'll see if I can dig it upagain, or perhaps someone can tell us what month to look upin the archives. Darryl Hayashida from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 03:33:35 1998 Subject: Cane tools boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0 I build regular grafite rods ect but I am interested in the art of =building with cane. Some questions and request's I have are Where can I =find the necassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And where can I get =tonkin Bamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that works with=bamboo in my area.Thanx Steve ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0 I build regular grafite rods ectbut = interested in the art of building with cane. Some questions and = are Where can I find the necassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And = can I get tonkin Bamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that = bamboo in my area.Thanx =Steve ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0-- from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Feb 2 06:55:16 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms/normalized steel Normalized steel is stress relieved.John Ok John, can one get normalized CRS, or is that an oxymoron? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Feb 2 08:44:52 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 09:08:37 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? RO>Don,RO> Another way to get that gold color you want,is to send me yourRO>ferrules andRO>I can Bronze plate them for you. This is sort of a gold color. I normallyRO>darken theRO>Bronze finish to get what they call English Bronze. But, if I don'tdarken iRO>andRO>leave it as it is ,it comes out of the plating bath as a gold golor. IchargRO>$10.00RO>per set of ferrules or to do a reel seat. This includes the returnshipping. RO> Dave LeClair Dave, I'm going to have to hold off - went buying crazy this weekend at thelocal bi- annual fishing tackle swapmeet.I ended up buying a 9' W&M Granger Deluxe and the 9' Classicane. My wifegot me away before I bought anything else. I've still got to buy my'98 fishing license and nat. forest parking permit and the wife is nothappy - the honey-do list just grew by 3 long pages. If I don't buy my license with the remains of my loot, I'll be missingout on the best local part of trout fishing season AND next month's FlyFisherman (March issue) is running an article on local Piru Creek (goodgrief is that the best stream that they can find to write about), so thelookie-loo crowds will increase 10 fold, IMHO. Might be time to start a used cane rod list I guess, 25+ rods is too afew too many. Don from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 2 10:15:50 1998 11:15:08 Subject: Browning Waterton VII Fly Rod Does anyone know anything about these fly rods? I know someone whobroke the butt section of one. Brian from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 2 10:23:24 1998 11:22:40 Subject: Heat Treating Nodeless Rods Has anyone heat treated pre-planed strips the way you do a "noded" rod?Would the splices fail at those temperatures? I cooked my sections inthe kitchen oven for 40 minutes at 300 degrees. I'm assuming that thestrips will absorb moisture (we have very high humidity, even in thewinter) in the next week or two before I'm able to plane them down andglue them. Shouldn't I heat them again? Brian "Going Nodeless!" from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Feb 2 10:39:38 1998 SVR4) Subject: RE: Waterstone flattening Try carbide powder + water on a glass plate on which you have stuck some transparent 3M plastic sheeting. That's how Veritas does it with their stone pond and it works fine for me.---------- Subject: Waterstone flattening Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I noticed the discussion onwaterstones tendency to be less than perfectly flat. I just got one, a1000/6000 combo with Nagura stone, and it doesn't sharpen nearrly asquickly as fine sandpaper on glass. I don't want to buy a $75 diamondstone to flatten a $30 waterstone. How would one flatten with glass andsandpaper? 1000 grit? 800 grit? 2000 grit? No paper at all?Thanks in advanceHarry Boyd from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 2 10:44:49 1998 Subject: Quad rod Can anyone out there help me to build a quad rod? What do I need as far asforms go etc. , etc.Bret from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 2 10:49:13 1998 Subject: Stress Curves Revisited The following is what I posted a few months ago, which was a repost from about 1 1/2 years ago. If someone has a different interpretation of stress curves, I won't be offended if you disagree with mine. Let's hear what you have to say! Darryl Hayashida ************************************************************** In it's most basic use a stress curve shows you how closea split cane rod is to breaking with the weight and length of line you specified. Garrison believed 200,000 ounces persquare inch was a good, safe upper level. In reality you cango up to 220,000 or 230,000 without any problems. Garrison himself went up to 220,000 on his lighter rods. Garrison believed that below the 140,000 point the bamboo stopped flexing. Some basic information on stress curves: The X axis is rod length, with the tip on the left and the handle on the right. The Y axis is ounces per square inch. This sounds like a pressure, as in psi, but it is really a stress measurement. The square inch refers to the area of the cross section of the rod at that point. The higher the stress curve goes, the more the rod will bend, taking the curve as a whole. I say this because a reading of 200,000 near the tip, where the rod is thin in diameter is going to bend more than a reading of 200,000 near the handle where the bamboo is thicker. But, if you compare a whole stress curve of one rod to the whole stress curve of another rod, the rod with a higher reading at the same point along the length will bend more at that point. A stress curve means nothing if you can't relate it to something. The only way you can start to see how a stress curve can help you is to graph up the stress curves of real rods and cast them. In my case I didn't have a bunch of rods to try. I had to make them. I now have a bunch of experimental rods lying around, but fortunately I was able to sell a few of the better experiments. I was also lucky in accidentally making a rod I really like (a Cattanach taper) on my third attempt, and being able to contrast that to a rod I really didn't like (a Garrison taper). As you get deeper into stress curves you can begin to pick out certaincharacteristics that tell you what kind of action the rod has, or will have if it hasn't been made yet. A Garrison rod, which I consider to be slow, has a well rounded "hump" near the tip and a fairly slow drop off as it goes towards the handle. Let's see if I can do this with ASCII art. || * * | * * * * *| * * * * *| * | * | *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The rod that I'm always raving about, the Cattanach 7' 0" 4 wt, I consider to be fairly fast. It has a stress curve like this: || * | * *| * * | * * | * * | * * *| * * * * ** *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The blip near the handle is the Cattanach hinge, and it greatly enhances roll casting. Don't forget to put it in. I did and the rod I made was a terrible roll caster. It isn't as necessary on longer rods, but on shorter rods it's definitely needed. A Paul Young Para 15, what is described as a parabolic action looks like this: || * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ Looking at this rod, and never having cast one, I would guess that it would feel fairly slow, due to the enhanced bending near the handle, but able to throw a lot of line, due to the stiff mid section. I would also guess that it could roll cast really well. There are as many variations of stress curves as there are rodmakers. This covers the slow, fast and parabolic actions. from maiello@yorku.ca Mon Feb 2 11:04:49 1998 (oW7/gB6pbWoavyxmc28EqWC4DTEreP8f@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA21453 for ;Mon, 2 Feb Subject: Re: planing forms I made a set of forms from 3/4" CRS.Every machininst I talked to said It would bow if I tried to take the skinoff. I used a fly cutter and lots of coolant, and took off very little in onepass, and it was fine.It did need some touching up with a file because of the swirls, butnothing like 40 hours. John makes a good point, since if you get a good piece in the first place,it will save you that much work. If you buy a 12' piece and cut it in half, make sure you mark one face ofthe CRS at both ends. then when you put them together, keep these markedfaces on top. CRS can be off in dimension by a bit, but usually it is very consistentalong its length for a given side. Mauro On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, J. C. Zimny wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdrivingme crazy. >Snip > I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metal planer,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Any suggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydOnce you take the hard "skin" off of CRS, stresses are relieved and itbegins to do a dimensional "dance". If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.Remember, Garrison used CRS because it was cheap and available. Thereare other products.John from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Feb 2 12:33:14 1998 (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id MAA15655 for ; Mon, 2 Feb1998 12:33:00 doing -bs Subject: moisture re-entry Somebody just asked about keeping moisture out after you glue upthe nodeless strips. Sorry, but I deleted the message too soon. Even if you do your tempering in the kitchen oven, its nice to havea long, low- temp oven to dry cane and keep strips dry as you work on them.I did some experiments last fall and 130 Deg F is enough to (gradually)drive out the moisture and keep it out. It helps extend the season, too,into the muggy summer months. I'm skeptical if any surface finish we would want to use will keep outmoisture indefinitely, but its a nice concept to start with dry cane.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Feb 2 12:41:16 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Treating Nodeless Rods In a message dated 2/2/98 4:26:19 PM, you wrote: Brian - I'm assuming you have used Titebond II as your splicing glue. If so Ithink you would be on dangerous ground if you went back up to 300degrees. Ithink a drying cabinet operating at low temperatures would be a betterdeal is not appealing, 200 degrees for an hour would probably not be harmfulandwould drive out most of the moisture. from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 2 13:14:47 1998 14:13:36 Subject: RE: moisture re-entry Did you have a problem with the glue failing at the splices at 130 deg? Brian -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer [SMTP:stetzer@csd.uwm.edu]Sent: Monday, February 02, 1998 1:33 PM Subject: moisture re-entry Even if you do your tempering in the kitchen oven, its nice to havea long, low- temp oven to dry cane and keep strips dry as you work onthem.I did some experiments last fall and 130 Deg F is enough to(gradually)drive out the moisture and keep it out. It helps extend the season,too,into the muggy summer months. from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Feb 2 13:32:05 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve, where do you live in Canada? There are several bamboo rodbuildersin Ontario who could advise you. Also , we are hosting a Rod BuildersGathering in Fergus, Ont. on May 23/24 this spring. There will be a lot ofinfo for the new rod builder!!!!---------- Subject: Cane tools I build regular grafite rods ect but I am interested in the art of buildingwith cane. Some questions and request's I have are Where can I find thenecassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And where can I get tonkinBamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that works with bambooinmy area.Thanx Steve from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 14:19:28 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Im In British Columbia, But still ontario is better then the states for the$ exchange.Thanx for you help and look forward from hearing from you.Steve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 14:22:08 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Im in BC , shoot Id love to go to the gathering. Thanx anyways, And if youcan still help me that would be great. The thing Im looking for mainly isthe plaining form. Where does one get it or is there a different form that Ican use?Thanx Steve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve, where do you live in Canada? There are several bamboo rodbuildersin Ontario who could advise you. Also , we are hosting a Rod BuildersGathering in Fergus, Ont. on May 23/24 this spring. There will be a lot ofinfo for the new rod builder!!!!----------From: steve Subject: Cane toolsDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 4:31 AM I build regular grafite rods ect but I am interested in the art of buildingwith cane. Some questions and request's I have are Where can I find thenecassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And where can I get tonkinBamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that works withbamboo inmy area.Thanx Steve from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Feb 2 14:30:09 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id OAA16953 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id OAA24272 for ; Mon, 2 Feb1998 14:29:42 doing -bs Subject: RE: moisture re-entry No. But I'm not using Titebond. I'm using Gorilla glue. I don't think any of our modern glues will fail at 130F; itshotter than that in the car sometimes. But at 300F some might.Its an concern for straightening the glued up blank too. It would be easy enough to do a test, with whatever glue you wantto use. Others have used Titebind with success for the entire rod,including the nodeless splices.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Thoman, Brian wrote:Did you have a problem with the glue failing at the splices at 130 deg? Brian from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Feb 2 15:31:15 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Cane tools steve wrote: The thing Im looking for mainly is the plaining form. Where does one getit or is there a different form that I can use?Thanx SteveSnipped from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 15:43:06 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Thanx HarrySteve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools steve wrote: The thing Im looking for mainly is the plaining form. Where does one getit or is there a different form that I can use?Thanx SteveSnippedSteve, Visit Jerry Foster's Rodmakers page at: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm There you will find all kinds of information on almost every subjectyou can think of connected with bamboo rods. Then start buying books,reading, following the list, and ordering supplies. If all you've done is assemble graphite rods, you're in for a realtreat when you actually begin building them yourself! Good Luck, andwelcome to a great source of info for new and prospective builders. Harry Boyd from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 2 16:07:40 1998 Subject: Herter's rod ?s Hi Gang! Haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and I've got a little puzzle Ihope somebody can help me figure out. I've recently picked up a very nice little 2-pc 8-ft rod with two tips, newcondition and a very fine caster with 4-5 TT or WF-5 line. It has an inkedinscription saying "Herter's Inc., RH8C" and a gold decal next to the hook-keeper with "MADE IN ENGLAND" Color is a uniform dark-honey, the nodes are carefully staggered and thetaperis para- similar to the Thramer in the Archive. The tips appear to be wet-and-dry and the ferrules are Super Z. Now things start to get spooky: the black-tipped red windings are aboutsizeD; the DL reel seat is very cheap aluminum with a big plastic knob at thebutt; the reverse half-Wells grip is low-grade cork, filled with putty, andabout an inch longer than any I've ever seen; the winding check is aMontague-looking stamping, and such things as guide feet and general finish indicategreat haste and/or miserly practice. My theory is that it was made by Herter's from an English blank, but othershave suggested it was a kit, assembled and finished by a customer. Isanyonefamiliar with Herters' practices and suppliers. Any guess as to who madetheblank? I'll guess about early '70s for the date, but who knows? I'd like to just strip it down to the blank and re-do the whole thing withthehigh-grade fittings it deserves, but I'm having too much fun fishing it inthis spectacular El Nino weather! Recommending same to all of you,Davy from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 2 16:48:41 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms/normalized steel Steve Trauthwein wrote: Normalized steel is stress relieved.John Ok John, can one get normalized CRS, or is that an oxymoron? Regards, SteveIndependence, MODon't know. Most of that is done in Fab Shops. I'd go for a largesupplier's catalog of stock material and then I'd ask if any of hissuppliers can accomodate your needs. Tha problem is always the smallquantity.John from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 2 17:28:26 1998 17:27:49 dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: url I ran onto a URL I thought some of you might be interested in. It is theentire military TC-524 machinery training manual. The lathe sectionaloneis 103 pages. Ir's downloadable as PDF files. http://www.atsc-army.org/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Feb 2 17:46:46 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA20271 for Subject: Re: Herter's rod ?s At 04:46 PM 2/2/98 EST, you wrote:Hi Gang! Haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and I've got a little puzzle Ihope somebody can help me figure out. Davy, I suspect that what you have is a kit rod based on a Partridge of Redichblank.Obviously the builder was "resourceful."Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 18:01:56 1998 Subject: RE:Herter's rod ?s RO>My theory is that it was made by Herter's from an English blank, butothersRO>have suggested it was a kit, assembled and finished by a customer. IsanyonRO>familiar with Herters' practices and suppliers. Any guess as to whomade thRO>blank? I'll guess about early '70s for the date, but who knows? Davy, I could look for more listings if you want better details, but I didfind an 8' Herter's (2/1) - 5/6 wt - in the autumm 1995 ClassicChronicle rod list. Dick Spurr's discription in the list sounds quite abit like yours except for apparent wrap quality - D/L seat with bakelitespacer and butt button, red tipped black wraps, impregnated cane, flykeeper, quality Z-type ferrules, good reel seat, good guide wraps. Wrap quality on yours makes me believe it was a kit rod or amateurrestoration job. Don Burns PS - With a single 9" short tip it was listed at $120. from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 2 18:09:52 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05567 for Subject: Books Etc To the list;To those of you who suggested listing my books here, it doesn't seemethical or practical (9 pages). This list is cluttered up enough. But if youwould like to send your addresses off list I'll send one snailmail.To those seeking Kirkfield I don't have one. Also my Garrison is all fullof notations and is not included. My 1934 Holden is available, as is my1951Kreider and Herter but I have no idea what they are worth.To those asking about my health, thanks. I will no longer wade NY'sAusable, but even though a septegen- (can't spell it) I can still stay withmy lab when he's chasing a running pheasant (keeps you young, don't youknow?). With the years one becomes conscious of one's mortality. Iprobablyshould face the same problem with my flyrods. Was planning to leave abunchto the local TU chapter but they seem to be coming unglued.Bill from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Feb 2 18:13:11 1998 Subject: first tapered strip out Made a base for my planing form today, two 2x6's glued together. Made apreliminary planing form, just glued it rather than screwing ittogether, oak. Planed my first finish taper. Starting on the learning curve, I need totweek my plane so I am not having to work so hard at it. I did maintaina good 60* all around. I was rather proud of that. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 2 19:05:53 1998 Subject: Re: Books Etc Bill, listmembers If you would like to email me the list i would gladly post it on thearchive for you if that's a route you would like to go..the list andfellow rodmakers should consider it an honor to assist any member, ifpossible.The only requirement would be that the monitory dealings should behandled off the list. ANY OBJECTIONS????? Jerry jfoster@gte.net from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:14:12 1998 Subject: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (or any9'6"Granger for that matter)? Thanks. --Rich from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:15:12 1998 Subject: Wax On - Wax Off I was intrigued by the person who wrote in andsuggested that waxing your plane sole wouldgreatly reduce the effort it takes to plane bamboostrips, but like the other person who wrote in, Iwondered about wax getting on the bamboo, andmaking it so the glue would not stick. So I did a little experiment. I waxed one plane and left myother plane alone. I planed four strips on the sides,two with the waxed plane, and two with the unwaxedplane. I then glued the paired strips with polyurethaneglue. On both pairs of strips the bamboo broke beforethe glue let go, so I would say there is no contaminationof wax on the bamboo, or at least not enough to makea difference. Or perhaps the polyurethane glue actslike a solvent and dissolves away the wax. In any case, the effort to plane strips is dramaticallyreduced. The plane just glides over the strips and forsome reason I can set the blade shallower and takethinner shavings than before. I am definitely going tobe waxing my plane sole from now on. Next experiment - Wax the blade edge?...... Darryl Hayashida from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:28:49 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Don,My wife won't let me go to those type of places, unless she is withme.Two years ago I went to a garage sale and bought ten rods at $50.00each.Shehad a fit.Untill I resold them at a fly fishing show for $2500.00.Womanjustdon't understand that we have to buy these things. My Honey-Do list just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think she'stryingto keep me busy,so I can'i go to all those garage sales and fly fishingshows. Let me know if there is anything I can help you with. Dave L. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Feb 2 20:12:38 1998 VAA10345;Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:12:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Books Etc 23C49784CA9AB52F06206172" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 23C49784CA9AB52F06206172 Bill Before you get carried away - I want first dibs on the ultimate rod -the 5 sided one piece nodeless - That one is too good to leave to someonewho would not appreciate it or the construction. It is one fine fishingimplement. Chris Bill Fink wrote: To the list;To those of you who suggested listing my books here, it doesn't seemethical or practical (9 pages). This list is cluttered up enough. But if youwould like to send your addresses off list I'll send one snailmail.To those seeking Kirkfield I don't have one. Also my Garrison is all fullof notations and is not included. My 1934 Holden is available, as is my1951Kreider and Herter but I have no idea what they are worth.To those asking about my health, thanks. I will no longer wade NY'sAusable, but even though a septegen- (can't spell it) I can still stay withmy lab when he's chasing a running pheasant (keeps you young, don't youknow?). With the years one becomes conscious of one's mortality. Iprobablyshould face the same problem with my flyrods. Was planning to leave abunchto the local TU chapter but they seem to be coming unglued.Bill --------------23C49784CA9AB52F06206172 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------23C49784CA9AB52F06206172-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 2 20:42:34 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Feb 1998 21:43:10 -0500 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Absolutely! That's my home. I would love to help plan a get together with ya! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from lblan@provide.net Mon Feb 2 20:53:54 1998 Subject: Re: Books Etc Sounds like a plan to me, Jerry. No problems here.Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Books Etc Bill, listmembers If you would like to email me the list i would gladly post it on thearchive for you if that's a route you would like to go..the list andfellow rodmakers should consider it an honor to assist any member, ifpossible.The only requirement would be that the monitory dealings should behandled off the list. ANY OBJECTIONS????? Jerry jfoster@gte.net from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 2 21:03:04 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Feb 1998 22:05:16 -0500 Subject: Restoration I would like to get some input on how to judge bamboo integrity. At a recent show a gentleman asked me to take a look at a rod for him. It looks to be a rod perhaps brought home from WWI. The strips themselves look to be of decent quality. Much better than other war rods. The nodes were flat (clearly filed but flat) and for the most part there were only very slight gaps in the splines. Anyhow, the ferrules were plated but in good condition and fit rather well. The finish was poor and the wraps were a step past crap (pardon me). I told him I would be more than happy to strip the rod and refinish it. The gentleman was in his late 70's and has never owned a bamboo rod. He sounded so happy even if the rod could not be fished to soon own a bamboo rod he could tell his friends about. I put the rod together and gave it a few good wrist casts to feel the action. (never mind the male ferrule of the tip section came off and let the tip fly across the room) It doesn't feel half bad but I heard a creak near the grip. I cannot tell whether it came from the grip or the cane. If I thought the cane was strong enough to fish with I would ask him if he wanted to put another grip and reel seat on. Otherwise I will just make it displayable. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to figure this out? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 21:09:40 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? RO>Don,RO> My wife won't let me go to those type of places, unless she iswithRO>me.RO> Two years ago I went to a garage sale and bought ten rods at $50.00each.SRO>had a fit.Untill I resold them at a fly fishing show for $2500.00.Woman jusRO>don't understand that we have to buy these things. RO> My Honey-Do list just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think she'sRO>tryingRO>to keep me busy,so I can'i go to all those garage sales and fly fishingshow RO> Let me know if there is anything I can help you with. RO> Dave L. I think behind every successful rodmaker is pi$$ed-off wife with a longhoney- do list - the rest of us aren't able to withstand "the look". Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 21:17:57 1998 Subject: RE:Restoration RO>It doesn't feel half bad but I heard a creak nearRO>the grip. I cannot tell whether it came from the grip or the cane.RO>If I thought the cane was strong enough to fish with I would ask himRO>if he wanted to put another grip and reel seat on. Otherwise I willRO>just make it displayable. Does anyone have any thoughts on how toRO>figure this out? RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, I had a loose metal reelseat on a bamboo baitcaster rod (reelseatin between 2 grips) and I bought a dull-tipped syringe at anelectronic's warehouse and injected MEK diluted epoxy through the corkgrips and up under the reelseat. Maybe you could do the same thing? Fill the syringe with the needle off. (can't draw through the small ID) Don Burns from pat3@home.com Mon Feb 2 21:26:32 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA21783 Subject: locating bamboo I am trying to locate some bamboo to make a flyrod. This will be myfirst atempt to make one and I do not know where to get the bamboo. Iwould be very greatful for any help given. Thanks Pat Kelly from d_price@global2000.net Mon Feb 2 21:32:32 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA09496 for; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:32:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I was intrigued by the person who wrote in andsuggested that waxing your plane sole wouldgreatly reduce the effort it takes to plane bamboostrips, but like the other person who wrote in, Iwondered about wax getting on the bamboo, andmaking it so the glue would not stick. So I did alittle experiment. I waxed one plane and left myother plane alone. I planed four strips on the sides,two with the waxed plane, and two with the unwaxedplane. I then glued the paired strips with polyurethaneglue. On both pairs of strips the bamboo broke beforethe glue let go, so I would say there is no contaminationof wax on the bamboo, or at least not enough to makea difference. Or perhaps the polyurethane glue actslike a solvent and dissolves away the wax. In any case, the effort to plane strips is dramaticallyreduced. The plane just glides over the strips and forsome reason I can set the blade shallower and takethinner shavings than before. I am definitely going tobe waxing my plane sole from now on. Next experiment - Wax the blade edge?...... Darryl Hayashida I'm glad someone tried it,and glad to hear of the successfull gluing.The first thing a rokie in the wood shops that I've worked in learned,was how to wax every machine working surface in the shop!.I hate to usetool that didn't have it and it makes all the difference in the world.Dave Price from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 21:34:35 1998 Subject: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing RO>Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (orany 9'6"RO>Granger for that matter)? Thanks. RO>--Rich Rich, I've got a 9' W&M Granger Deluxe if that will help at all. Don from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Feb 2 21:48:01 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Restoration Jon;WWI or WWII??? Is the rod a combination Fly/Bait Cast? Is the gripremovable ( can you pull it off the butt section and turn it around to makea bait casting rod)? If so malybe the grip ferrule is loose. If the rodwas made in Japan in the early 1950's any of the really gaudy spiral wrapsbetween guides are not there as intermediate wraps, they hide some reallyugly mistakes. Tell me more. Any delaminations, cane fractures, crackedferrules, etc? ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: RestorationDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:03 PM I would like to get some input on how to judge bamboo integrity. At a recent show a gentleman asked me to take a look at a rod for him. It looks to be a rod perhaps brought home from WWI. The strips themselves look to be of decent quality. Much better than other war rods. The nodes were flat (clearly filed but flat) and for the most part there were only very slight gaps in the splines. Anyhow, the ferrules were plated but in good condition and fit rather well. The finish was poor and the wraps were a step past crap (pardon me). I told him I would be more than happy to strip the rod and refinish it. The gentleman was in his late 70's and has never owned a bamboo rod. He sounded so happy even if the rod could not be fished to soon own a bamboo rod he could tell his friends about. I put the rod together and gave it a few good wrist casts to feel the action. (never mind the male ferrule of the tip section came off and let the tip fly across the room) It doesn't feel half bad but I heard a creak near the grip. I cannot tell whether it came from the grip or the cane. If I thought the cane was strong enough to fish with I would ask him if he wanted to put another grip and reel seat on. Otherwise I will just make it displayable. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to figure this out? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Feb 2 21:51:08 1998 beforged)) Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off What type of wax? Furniture, or candle?George ----------From: David Price Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax OffDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 11:32 PM SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I was intrigued by the person who wrote in andsuggested that waxing your plane sole wouldgreatly reduce the effort it takes to plane bamboostrips, but like the other person who wrote in, Iwondered about wax getting on the bamboo, andmaking it so the glue would not stick. So I did alittle experiment. I waxed one plane and left myother plane alone. I planed four strips on the sides,two with the waxed plane, and two with the unwaxedplane. I then glued the paired strips with polyurethaneglue. On both pairs of strips the bamboo broke beforethe glue let go, so I would say there is no contaminationof wax on the bamboo, or at least not enough to makea difference. Or perhaps the polyurethane glue actslike a solvent and dissolves away the wax. In any case, the effort to plane strips is dramaticallyreduced. The plane just glides over the strips and forsome reason I can set the blade shallower and takethinner shavings than before. I am definitely going tobe waxing my plane sole from now on. Next experiment - Wax the blade edge?...... Darryl Hayashida I'm glad someone tried it,and glad to hear of the successfull gluing.The first thing a rokie in the wood shops that I've worked in learned,was how to wax every machine working surface in the shop!.I hate to usetool that didn't have it and it makes all the difference in the world.Dave Price from wbinn@michiana.org Mon Feb 2 21:55:02 1998 freenet.michiana.org (8.8.2/8.7.3(CICNet)) with ESMTP id WAA22499 for Subject: Re: Herter's rod ?s Concerning the question about the Herters rod. I recently refinished an 8'Herters RH8C 2 pc rod of the description in question. It was in terribleshape when I bought it but it had good quality ferrules and a nice action.Besides, it's not often I run across a light action 2 pc rod in anycondition. It had the rather unusual handle/reelseat as described but had avarnished finish. The wraps were in terrible shape and while they weren'tCor D thread, they were red nylon and had unusual 4 turn black trim bandsonboth ends of each red wrap. The end of the reel seat had a black rubberbutton somewhat typical of the ones Hardy used sometimes. I was alsocurious about this rods origin and later I found a similar one listed inThe Classic listing at $280. (It had 2 tips and a different number thanmine) The answer to my question, and possibly yours, came when I found a1966 Herters catalog in an antique mall. It listed two cane rods that year,one of which was the RH8C. And while the catalog was in black and whitethedrawing for the rod clearly showed the rubber button butt and guide wrapswith 2 trim bands per.Hope this helps. slow action.Winston Binney from madcliff@mssl.uswest.net Mon Feb 2 22:02:34 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA14435 for Subject: Re: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (or any9'6"Granger for that matter)? Thanks. --Rich The following guide spacings come from a 9 1/2-foot Goodwin Granger Denver Special, one of the older models from the 20s before the Special was introduced. The problem is that the tip on this rod is 2 1/4 inches short. I assume that it was broken at the tip end rather than the butt end, but 7" seems quite a ways down for the first guide. 7"13 3/821 1/428 5/836 3/8 (bottom of tip section)40 3/8 (top of mid section)5061 1/274 1/483 1/4 Hope this helps. Matt Clifford from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 2 22:49:53 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Feb 1998 23:52:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Japaning? While I do not classify as a successful rod maker...I would just like to point out I don't have a pi&^ed off wife...I have a Pi@#ed off girlfriend though, with a pretty long "you-better-do-if-you-want-some-loven" list. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 2 22:51:12 1998 Subject: Where am I? Dear Listmeister Did I get dropped? I sent in a question re. Herters rods and got a replyoff- list, but I never saw it (or anything else) come up today. If I should resubmit or resubscribe or something, please let me know. Thanks,Davy from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Feb 2 22:54:46 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools =_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0 ----------From: steve Subject: Re: Cane toolsDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:17 PM Im In British Columbia, But still ontario is better then the states forthe$ exchange.Thanx for you help and look forward from hearing from you.Steve-----Original Message-----From: DrBamboo@aol.com Date: February 2, 1998 6:50 AMSubject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0 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 ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0-- from Skbump@aol.com Mon Feb 2 23:22:59 1998 Subject: Unsubscribe Shannon K. Bump unscribe Shannon K. Bump from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 3 00:47:07 1998 Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off In a message dated 2/2/98 6:43:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,jlintvet@clarityconnect.com writes: Just curious...what type of wax did you use or would you suggest? What type of wax? Furniture, or candle? I used the wax I recently posted about for waxing my rods. Citrus Shield carnuba wax by Howard Products. It's afurniture wax. Darryl Hayashida from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 3 01:44:18 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA10425 Subject: Re: Herter's rod ?s Sounds like you have one of Herter's "Grand Deluxe Imported St. Albans"split bamboo fly rods. In all the Herter's catalogs I've seen (late '60'sthru'70's) they were ONLY offered fully assembled. from your description, itsounds like stock # RH8C 8'-2pc 4-3/8oz for 5- 6wt. It sold for $32.67in1973. If you wanted an extra tip you had to add $9.47. I see that youmis-took the "DuPont neoprene rubber button on (the) end (of the reel seat) toprotectthe rod from damage" for cheap plastic. You'd probably also be pleased toknow that the ferrules "are all made of solid German silver". You maywishto study the rod closely as "the specifications on Herter's St. AlbansGrandDeluxe Split Bamboo Fly Rods have been worked out to perfection duringmany a lifetime of study." Enjoy,George Bourke Quotations from the 1972-3 Herter's catalog. The rod (2 models available)gets a whole page! ----------From: Ragnarig@aol.com Subject: Herter's rod ?sDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 1:46 PM Hi Gang! Haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and I've got a littlepuzzle Ihope somebody can help me figure out. I've recently picked up a very nice little 2-pc 8-ft rod with two tips,newcondition and a very fine caster with 4-5 TT or WF-5 line. It has aninkedinscription saying "Herter's Inc., RH8C" and a gold decal next to thehook-keeper with "MADE IN ENGLAND" Color is a uniform dark-honey, the nodes are carefully staggered and thetaperis para- similar to the Thramer in the Archive. The tips appear to bewet-and-dry and the ferrules are Super Z. Now things start to get spooky: the black-tipped red windings are aboutsizeD; the DL reel seat is very cheap aluminum with a big plastic knob at thebutt; the reverse half-Wells grip is low-grade cork, filled with putty,andabout an inch longer than any I've ever seen; the winding check is aMontague-looking stamping, and such things as guide feet and general finishindicategreat haste and/or miserly practice. My theory is that it was made by Herter's from an English blank, butothershave suggested it was a kit, assembled and finished by a customer. Isanyonefamiliar with Herters' practices and suppliers. Any guess as to whomadethe> blank? I'll guess about early '70s for the date, but who knows? I'd like to just strip it down to the blank and re-do the whole thingwith thehigh-grade fittings it deserves, but I'm having too much fun fishing itinthis spectacular El Nino weather! Recommending same to all of you,Davy from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 3 02:38:51 1998 Subject: stress curves revisted Darryl;Thanks for re-posting you previous explanation of stress curves. Mybrowsermust have crashed before I read that in the archives, I finally gotnetscape so now I can go back and read everything I missed before. Thanksto you and Wayne, I think I'm finally beginning to get a clue as to whatwhat the differences in curves might mean to rod action.Now it seemsthat Ionly have to build a couple dozen rods, or maybe a couple hundred , andI'll have it all figured out.I hope the side jobs keep coming in!John Channer from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue Feb 3 06:38:58 1998 (AST) 3 Feb 98 07:44:03 -0500 0500 3 Feb 98 07:43:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Cane tools Are any of your friends in the Ottawa area?-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools ----------From: steve Subject: Re: Cane toolsDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:17 PM Im In British Columbia, But still ontario is better then the states forthe$ exchange.Thanx for you help and look forward from hearing from you.Steve-----Original Message-----From: DrBamboo@aol.com Date: February 2, 1998 6:50 AMSubject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Feb 3 09:31:01 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves revisted Rather than build a few hundred, try to cast and measure aas many rods asyoucan find. Sonn you'll feel pretty confidant when you get a feel for how arodwill graph just by casting it. Rob from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 10:15:46 1998 Subject: Pacific Bay guides All, I bought some black PacBay snake guides the other day at BobMArriott's, thye told me that PacBay has changed the shape of theguides. I don't think their finish has changed, just the shape. Old guide shape (sorry for ascii): --/\/-- new shape: --/|/-- The top of the loop is now 90 deg to the rod shaft vs at an angle. FYI, Don Burns from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 3 14:23:22 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides Pac Bay has a line of Titanium Carbide guides which have a beautiful darkfinish andflat feet They're pricey but are worth it.Roughly 2.75/ snake and 3 /tiptop. from birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu Tue Feb 3 16:07:05 1998 (echem16392.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu ka011086 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:06:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides Can anyone give me a good source for Pac Bay guides. Seymour Birnbaumsxb33@po.cwru.edu DrBamboo@aol.com wrote: Pac Bay has a line of Titanium Carbide guides which have a beautifuldarkfinish andflat feet They're pricey but are worth it.Roughly 2.75/ snake and 3/tiptop. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 3 16:49:57 1998 0700 Subject: Impregnation Guys, Several weeks ago someone wrote in about impregnating cane. I have since received a copy of "Wes Jordan - Profile of a Cane Builder"and his patent is located in the book. Times/resins/technique is all there. Further, a section of the "Best of the Planning Form" deals withimpregnation. Another note: See some concern about moisture entering the rod. WesJordan's impregnation technique required rods to be soaked in water/resinsolution for days @ a time. He then cooked the cane @ 285F for severalhours to remove the water. So I wonder if the hype about moisture is suchan issue. Mind you, I live in a dry climate so perhaps I just haven't seenthe results. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 3 16:50:02 1998 0700 Subject: Perfection snake guides Guys, The last 2 orders of guides model SSGC showed a lot less chroming thanprevious guides I've used over the years. The new ones are nearly a mattfinish suggesting very little chrome or none @ all. Anyone else noticethis? Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 17:35:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Wax On - Wax Off What if you waxed the sole of your plane with auto wax instead of afurnituretype wax or candle wax? Bret from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 3 17:46:49 1998 Subject: perfection guides Don; I'm glad someone else noticed that too, I thought the last batch of guidesI got seemed a little dull, I hope they don't rust.Also, to Rob, I'ld loveto cast every different rod ever made, but Durango, Co. might as well bethe moon as far as cane rods go. I fish the San Juan at least twice a monthand have done so for three years and I have only seen one other personwitha cane rod and it was a 9' H-I that cast like a pool cue. I have let quitea few graphite types cast my Garrison taper 8' 5wt and most of them werequite complimentary. I keep hoping to run into people with cane rods, butso far to no avail.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 17:47:52 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides RO>Can anyone give me a good source for Pac Bay guides. RO>Seymour BirnbaumRO>sxb33@po.cwru.edu Seymour, Try Bob Marriott's: Phone (800) 535-6633 or (714) 525-1827 FAX -- 5783 orwww.bobmarriotts.com (online ordering I think) Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 17:49:12 1998 Subject: honey do list I tell you guys I must be the luckiest guy here because my wife never, Imeannever stops me from doing this kind of stuff. She always tells mewhatever iwant to buy just do it. we went to an antique shop the other day and Ibought4 old planes and some other stuff for this hobby and she only smiled. Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 17:49:55 1998 Subject: Perfection snake guides RO>Guys, RO>The last 2 orders of guides model SSGC showed a lot less chromingthanRO>previous guides I've used over the years. The new ones are nearly amattRO>finish suggesting very little chrome or none @ all. Anyone else noticethis? RO>Don Don, I tried to order Perfection guides from Angler's Workshop last year, butthey said they couldn't get them in due to Perfection's problems ingetting their new plating methods worked out. Sounds like you've gotsome new type guides. Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 18:05:32 1998 Subject: Rod builders in Boise I was wondering if any1 is located in Boise. If so can you answer me offgroup so as not to take up this space. Thanx.Bret from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Feb 3 18:35:55 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides As I understand from my supplier, Perfection now calls the matte finish"hardchrome" and I think that is the only silver guide available. I hope this mayshed a little light. Rob from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 18:54:16 1998 Subject: RE:honey do list RO>I tell you guys I must be the luckiest guy here because my wife never, ImeaRO>never stops me from doing this kind of stuff. She always tells mewhateverRO>want to buy just do it. we went to an antique shop the other day and IbougRO>4 old planes and some other stuff for this hobby and she only smiled.RO>Bret Alright, I'll bite - what's the punch line? Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 19:27:10 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Cane tools OK tell me why I can't retrive any of JFosters pages on the inter-net.Bret from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 3 20:45:00 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Jon - You can build rods later in life. Having gone to IU in the '70's(and yes, Bob Knight is a god), I can honestly say that I never letfishing come between me and a girlfriend. There was that one time Igot up too early to go deer hunting, though. . . . . But enough about me. Where are your priorities, man!?! Brian Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 3 20:49:45 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides George - Wayne had some of these the other day, and I was impressed by the"Stealth bomber" look. Now I just have to figure out how to oxidize NSto the same tone for ferrules and seats. Brian from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 3 21:52:04 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides Brian;Just use the Jim Payne bluing solution and cover it with Krylon Acrylicwith U.V.blocker,Works like a charm.George from richjez@enteract.com Tue Feb 3 22:01:13 1998 0000 (207.229.149.243) Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off A lot of auto waxes have abrasives in them to remove oxdized paint. I sawone neighboe take the paint off his car one summer waxing every weekwith apower buffer. There is various degrees of the abrasiveness of auto wax. Iimangine there might be some without any abrasives.It doesn't seem like those abrasives that would help your plane.Rich Jezioro At 06:32 PM 2/3/98 EST, you wrote:What if you waxed the sole of your plane with auto wax instead of afurnituretype wax or candle wax? Bret from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 3 22:16:53 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 3Feb 1998 23:18:05 -0500 Subject: Final prep After you sand down your blank and are ready to dip it what is you last step before the varnish goes on? Wayne reccomends a light coat of tung oil, after dry, a rub down of turpentine, then the tube. Any comments? Would denatured alcohol have a different effect than turpentine? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277- 9781 from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Feb 3 22:19:35 1998 Subject: Re: honey do list In a message dated 98-02-03 19:57:38 EST, you write: Be patient, Don. Sometimes it just takes a little while to get hermedicationadjusted properly, that's all. Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 3 23:27:09 1998 Subject: Re: Stress Curves Revisited Thanks for the posting on stress curves-I believe I understand them alittlebetter but I can read a graph of thickness vs. length with more accurateprediction-probably just what I've gotten used to.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 3 23:29:13 1998 Subject: Re: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Jon,I believe Chris Bogart is trying to get an informal get togethersometimein May--it might not fit your college schedule but it would be at his shoponthe Shenandoah R. near Luray-details later.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 3 23:37:49 1998 Subject: Re: Books Etc Bill,I'm sorry to hear your T.U. chapter is coming unglued! :-)Hank. from jstickle@erols.com Wed Feb 4 04:23:46 1998 Subject: Pacific Bay Guides Merrick Tackle I was told yesterday now handles the titanium platedguides. Problem is they only sell wholesale. I think you can also getthem from Jann's Netcraft. Their 1998 catalog shows a gunsmoke guide so. Last year Merrick Tackle sold solid titanium fly guides at $4.25 eachbut I'm told they don't handle them anymore. I'm sort of bummed becausethey are much lighter than regular stainless and the plated stainless. Jann's Netcraft's number is 800-638-2723 from sonners2@bellsouth.net Wed Feb 4 06:04:47 1998 Subject: ROD LABOR PRICE LIST I am new to repair rod repairs for commercial purposes. I am wondering ifanyone has a labor price list in which they could share with me. Or ifsomeone could offer me advice I would appreciate it. Thanks Anthony from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 08:35:14 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA00312 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:35:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off Rich Jezioro wrote: A lot of auto waxes have abrasives in them to remove oxdized paint. Isawone neighboe take the paint off his car one summer waxing every weekwith apower buffer. There is various degrees of the abrasiveness of auto wax. Iimangine there might be some without any abrasives.It doesn't seem like those abrasives that would help your plane.Rich Jezioro At 06:32 PM 2/3/98 EST, you wrote:What if you waxed the sole of your plane with auto wax instead of afurnituretype wax or candle wax?Bret I use butchers wax (home-depot may have it and people who make cabinetfinishes have it)funny thing about abrasives is I apply it with ascotch- brite pad and over time it smooths the surface to beslicker.Have been doing this on some tools for twenty years and dosn'tseem too alter the flatness. Just my .02 worth.Dave Price from tball@mail.portup.com Wed Feb 4 09:28:10 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides You might also try Hook & Hackle at their Email cite Bob@hookhack.comHave done business for a number of years and they are good to work with.Tom in Trout Lake from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Feb 4 14:01:36 1998 Subject: Re:Green Cane To any and all who can help,I just got some bamboo and for the first time, it's pretty green. Will myflaming cover for this, should I wait when (or if, this is Feb. in Chicago)and set them out in the sun? I have started a check split and knocked outtheinternal dams. if I do blonde will this green color screw up the color, orwill the heat treating clear it up?Thanks Rob from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 4 15:27:20 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16468 for Subject: First try I've been lurking for a week or two and have enjoyed the give and take. I'vealso tried several times to access the archives at Bruce Conner's site andkeep receiving the message that they're not available. Am I doingsomethingwrong? I can't be typing the URL wrong, I'm clicking HIS button!I'm thinking of getting my planes all dull again after a hiatus of about 10years. You guys are a real breath of fresh air. Back when I blew out myshoulder planing and decided to take a break, it was read a book or botherHoagy Carmichael with a phone call if you needed to improve some facet ofyour output. At that time I had a pizza-man who thought I was nuts but letme use his oven on an occasional Sun AM to bake my blanks (provided Ineverdivulge to ANYONE that he put anything like THAT where the FOOD went)! Icould never quite convince him that it was no different from making alittleChinese food on the sly.Thanks for the enjoyment; I'll probably wait awhile more before I startputting any "two-centses" worth in among you guys. I WOULD appreciate itifanyone can trouble-shoot my unsuccessful attempts at the archives.Art from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 4 15:45:09 1998 Subject: RE:First try RO>Thanks for the enjoyment; I'll probably wait awhile more before I startRO>putting any "two-centses" worth in among you guys. I WOULDappreciate it ifRO>anyone can trouble-shoot my unsuccessful attempts at the archives.RO>Art Art, Welcome and try looking at the archives on Jerry Foster's URL: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Don Burns from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 4 16:16:16 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 4Feb 1998 17:17:04 +0000 Subject: Ferrule Replacement I seemed to have ruined a male ferrule when I took it off. It appears to be a standard H&I male ferrule section. The total length is 1 3/4", the seating length is 1" and the outside diameter of the seating area is .292 Anyone have something similar they could part with or know where I can find inexpensive ferrules. The rod is not need. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 16:17:48 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id RAA26546 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:17:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Green Cane Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: To any and all who can help,I just got some bamboo and for the first time, it's pretty green. Will myflaming cover for this, should I wait when (or if, this is Feb. in Chicago)and set them out in the sun? I have started a check split and knocked outtheinternal dams. if I do blonde will this green color screw up the color, orwill the heat treating clear it up?Thanks Rob Gee and I was just going to order cane myself, but now I'm scared agian!I'l never get started(can't afford to get a bum batch at the moment)!!.Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 16:28:17 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id RAA27185 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:28:14 -0500 Subject: Cane Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks from penr0295@uidaho.edu Wed Feb 4 16:37:29 1998 process doing-bs Subject: Trout Fly Exhibit "An International Exhibition: The Art of the Trout Fly" is an exhibitionthat is currently being put together as a collaborative effort between theUniversity of Idaho's Prichard Gallery of Art in Moscow, Idaho, and theBoulder Museum for Contemporary Art in Boulder, Colorado. The show's organizers are Gallery Director Gail Siegel (Univ. of Idaho),Jim Palmersheim (Univ. of Idaho), and Ken Iwamasa (Univ. Of Colorado,Boulder). The exhibition itself is interested in "contemporary artwork,and will consider any medium and any aspect of fly fishing". The workmay be of a traditional nature, or may expand beyond this. Theexhibition also expects to include a "collateral lecture series,demonstrations, and workshops". The show itself is scheduled to occurconcurrently at both the Prichard Gallery in Idaho, and the Boulder Museum 1999. As a good friend of two of the individuals who are responsible fororganizing this show, they have asked me to help them in their task ofcompiling a list of the names and addresses of International fly tyers,artists, etc. who we can contact in order to see if they might beinterested in submitting work that would be considered for inclusion inthis exhibition (submissions would generally be in the form of slides orphotographs). We are particularly interested in acquiring the names andaddresses (and e-mails, if possible) of more non-North American tyers atthis point, but are not finalized with our mailing list for anygeographical region yet. Consequently, if you know of artists, tyers, or others that we should beaware of, I would appreciate it if you would submit to me off-list theirname, address, and any other contact information you may have (phone,e-mail, etc.) Please also include a brief description of the individual's Thomas PenroseBend, OR from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 4 16:40:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24293 for Subject: RE:First try At 01:44 PM 2/4/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>Thanks for the enjoyment; I'll probably wait awhile more before IstartRO>putting any "two-centses" worth in among you guys. I WOULDappreciate it ifRO>anyone can trouble-shoot my unsuccessful attempts at the archives.RO>Art Art, Welcome and try looking at the archives on Jerry Foster's URL: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Don Burns Don,Thanks so much for the almost instantaneous response (!). I was able togetthem on the first try and have found a source of reading pleasure that'llprobably suck up several weeks of free time.Thanks again,Art from penr0295@uidaho.edu Wed Feb 4 16:48:17 1998 process doing-bs Subject: Re: Trout Fly Exhibit I should also have added that while this exhibition is primarilyinterested in contemporary works done by living artists, there are alsoplans to include historical artifacts as well. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 4 16:56:23 1998 Subject: RE:Ferrule Replacement RO>I seemed to have ruined a male ferrule when I took it off. ItRO>appears to be a standard H&I male ferrule section. The total lengthRO>is 1 3/4", the seating length is 1" and the outside diameter of theRO>seating area is .292 Anyone have something similar they could partRO>with or know where I can find inexpensive ferrules. The rod is notRO>for me. I called anglers but the ferrules are much larger than IRO>need. RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, I pulled out my H-I mid sections and spare ferrules - all my "stuff" isin the 0.280" range. Sorry - can't help ya. Don Burns from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 4 16:57:42 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25595 for Subject: Re: Cane At 05:28 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks Dave,If you get to NJ a lot why don't you go to the source in Tom's River? That'swhere Demarest's warehouse is. That way you can: pick your own, takehomeactual 12 ft lengths, and get instant gratification. They have a website at: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Call before you go as they might wish you to make an appointment, but thelast time I was there they were extremely pleasant, helpful andcooperative.That was about 10 years ago but unless all the NICE people got firedthey'reprobably still as eager to help!Good luck,Art from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 17:42:02 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id SAA31642 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:41:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Cane Art Port wrote: At 05:28 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks Dave,If you get to NJ a lot why don't you go to the source in Tom's River?That'swhere Demarest's warehouse is. That way you can: pick your own, takehomeactual 12 ft lengths, and get instant gratification. They have a websiteat: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Call before you go as they might wish you to make an appointment, butthelast time I was there they were extremely pleasant, helpful andcooperative.That was about 10 years ago but unless all the NICE people got firedthey'reprobably still as eager to help!Good luck,Art Spoke to them last time I was down there, and they didn't seem to offerthat alternative, it's another 1 1/2 hour from where I go. I'm on theway out the door to go steelheading be back fri!!!!. Dave Price ( the only fishing I do in winter ) from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 4 18:12:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japaning? Brian,I never let a girl friend come between me and flyfishing. Bobby Knight isnota god but IU is awesome in B-ball.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 4 18:31:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Green Cane All the suppliers of cane will take back any you don't think is any good sojump in and buy some Dave.Bret from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 4 18:44:46 1998 Subject: Re: Quad rod Bret, I believe they are covered in the Best of the Planing Form. Youmight want to look there. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Subject: Quad rodDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 8:21 AM Can anyone out there help me to build a quad rod? What do I need as farasforms go etc. , etc.Bret from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 4 19:09:05 1998 with SMTP id AAA16776 for ;Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:08:23 +0000 withlast message Subject: Re: Cane TAA07612 Art, FYI... The warehouse is in Lakewood now, and they're still nice people. I justordered from them and they're a great bunch! Homey ----------At 05:28 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks Dave,If you get to NJ a lot why don't you go to the source in Tom's River? That'swhere Demarest's warehouse is. That way you can: pick your own, takehomeactual 12 ft lengths, and get instant gratification. They have a website at: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Call before you go as they might wish you to make an appointment, but thelast time I was there they were extremely pleasant, helpful andcooperative.That was about 10 years ago but unless all the NICE people got firedthey'reprobably still as eager to help!Good luck,Art from EMiller257@aol.com Wed Feb 4 19:26:23 1998 Subject: Re: honey do list I hope you realize just how lucky you are. Most wives moan and groanaboutall the stuff we buy for our hobby but I'd be willing to bet that most of usdont blow our checks in taverns or poker games like we did in our youth.Themoney I spend on fishing gear is a fraction of what I would have spent oncigarets this past 17 years since I quit. Somehow that never getsmentioned.Ed M from ghinde@inconnect.com Wed Feb 4 19:46:17 1998 Subject: Re: RE:Ferrule Replacement Jon;Sorry no luck with that size ferrule here.What have you done about the problem at the grip?George ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: RE:Ferrule ReplacementDate: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 1:55 PM RO>I seemed to have ruined a male ferrule when I took it off. ItRO>appears to be a standard H&I male ferrule section. The total lengthRO>is 1 3/4", the seating length is 1" and the outside diameter of theRO>seating area is .292 Anyone have something similar they could partRO>with or know where I can find inexpensive ferrules. The rod is notRO>for me. I called anglers but the ferrules are much larger than IRO>need. RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, I pulled out my H-I mid sections and spare ferrules - all my "stuff" isin the 0.280" range. Sorry - can't help ya. Don Burns from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 4 22:04:25 1998 Subject: Re: RE:honey do list That smile is about the future-be careful :-)Hank-I never get finished the list- Woolman. from plipton@sunvalley.net Wed Feb 4 23:19:56 1998 (208.14.167.42) Subject: violin finish DrBamboo wrote: Patrick;Maybe you can help.Need to refinish a violin for a friend.Violin shopsareeven more secretive than old rod shops and are hesitant to sell anyvarnish.Trade secrets you know.Would prefer not to use Behlens.Can yourecommend anything? DrBamboo: Contact International Violin Company, Baltimore, MD, 410-542-3535. Manyviolinvarnishes has shellac as one of their compoments. That gives them a shelflifesodon't stock up. Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726- 9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Feb 4 23:40:19 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Replacement Jon I've got some .300 male ferrules, but I'll have to check tomorrow (they areatmy shop) and see if there are any good, complete matching sets. This is atruncated step-down ferrule, nicht wahr? I'll get with you tomorrow off-list. Davy PS. You do understand this'll cost you a beer? from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 5 11:06:08 1998 Subject: Belvoirdale ferrules? All, Anyone ever use the Belvoirdale ferrules? Any good? Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 5 12:08:38 1998 Subject: Re: Re: honey do list Ed M.I quit smoking 25 years ago and I made myself a promise that if I quit forayear (two packs Pall Mall reds a day guy ) that I would by me a LeonardBamboowith the money I would have spent for smokes. Still fish that rod today. Andyes I do realize how lucky I am to have a wife who doesn't nag aboutthings.Never did play poker.Bret from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Feb 5 13:06:23 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10168 for Subject: Books Hi Chris,Am not getting carried away yet for awhile, I hope. Yes, last year'sone-piece five sider is very nice but did you see Tom cast the whole lineonthis year's two-piece five weight penta? Needing a new challenge, I wanttobuild one of Zimny's fast quads but so far he hasn't given me the taper. Bill from penr0295@uidaho.edu Thu Feb 5 13:48:55 1998 process doing-bs Subject: Trout fly exhibit forward (fwd) Jim Palmersheim sent me the following official announcement regardingtheexhibit I had made a post regarding yesterday. For those who areinterested, this announcement includes additional information. Also, anyindvidual who is interested in being sent an application letter shouldcontact either Jim, Ken, or myself by sending your name and address. Thomas PenroseBend, OR ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Brief discription/THANKS "Art of the Trout Fly"Art of the Trout Fly, an international exhibition of trout flies and related art objects is scheduled to open simultaneously at the University of Idaho and Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art, Boulder Colorado inJune through August 1999.This exhibition is centered around the late William Cushner fly collection, and will additionally feature the works of more than a hundred regionaland nationally known fly tiers and artists work of other hand-made objectssuch as visual arts, rods and reels. This three month long exhibition serves a platform for a Kid's fishing and educational programs, includes a series of programs for women and serves a platform for the discussion of trout and environmental issues.All international fly tiers are invited to make inquiries.Museum directors or TU chapters interested in having all or partsof this exhibition shown in your area should forward all inquiries toeither: co-curatorKen IwamasaBoulder, CO 80302460-20th St.iwamasa@spot.colorado.edu or co-curatorJim Palmersheim332 North BlaineMoscow, ID 83843jamesp@turbonet.com from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Feb 5 15:25:07 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id VAA07210 for; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:25:03 GMT Subject: Re: Green Cane Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: To any and all who can help,I just got some bamboo and for the first time, it's pretty green. Will myflaming cover for this, should I wait when (or if, this is Feb. in Chicago)and set them out in the sun? I have started a check split and knocked outtheinternal dams. if I do blonde will this green color screw up the color, orwill the heat treating clear it up? Rob The green color is the enamel which you will be removing after youplaneyour strips unless you want to remove it first. To check this out simplyuseyour thumbnail and scratch the very end of a culm. Bryant C. from shane.m.hubbs@vanderbilt.edu Thu Feb 5 16:27:59 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:27:57 CST Subject: Re:help how do I remove myself from the email group? Thanks from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 19:37:17 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THE LOOK. Dave L from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 19:52:56 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides After spending the last 30 years refinishing fire arms. I have done aboutevery kindof plating and finishing there is. The bright chrome you see is calleddecoritivechrome. It is usually plated over nickel and that is plated over copper.Thisis a very good protective finnish. Hard chrome on the other hand is a harder finnishbut usuallynot as protective. Hard chrome is porous. If you look under a microscope,you will see that there are fine cracks in the chrome. Hard chrome is usuallyplateddirectly on the base metal. These hair line cracks will let in moistureandthe basemetal under the hard chrome will rust causing the chrome to flake off,leaving arusty guide or what ever the base metal is. I don't know if Perfection isplatingthe hard chrome directly on the guides or nickel plating them first.Usuallywhenthe metal is nickel plated first, the hard chrome will come out shiny. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 20:05:17 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Replacement Jon,Is this male ferrule Nickel Silver or chrome plated brass? I'll lookintomy used treasures and see if I can come up with something Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 20:28:05 1998 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale ferrules? The only thing I didn't like about the ferrules I bought from him a fewyearsago, is that they are metric instead of 64s. They are made in England byGraham"s brother. Dave LeClair from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 5 21:14:24 1998 Subject: the look Dave; I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad THE LOOK can't kill, I would havebeen dead about 24 years ago, not to mention every time a package withrodbuiling stuff shows up at our door.My salvation is I don't go to bars orchase womenJohn Channer from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Feb 5 21:35:31 1998 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale ferrules? They are definifely not as nice as Classic Sporting Ent. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 5 21:40:25 1998 Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:39:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japaning? On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THE LOOK. Dave L except from their mum! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Feb 5 22:23:10 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 5Feb 1998 10:35:52 +0000 Subject: Steelhead I was just wondering if anyone near the Slamon River in NY would like to meet for some fishing Sat. morning? I am getting itchy to get outside and fish. Sorry to take up the bandwidth. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Feb 5 23:30:12 1998 Subject: Re: Drive belt -Just tried something new that worked so well I'm still giddy. For mybindingbelt, I made a spliced loop of Cortland dacron "greenspot" trolling line. Thestuff is braided without a core so it lies flat on the rod. To splice I usedthe splicing needle also made by Cortland (I think). Anyway, there is noknotand the smoothness is a real treat. The idea wasn't totally mine EricHeckmanat Coren's Rod and Reel in Chicago (773-631-5202) where I get most ofmycomponents came up with a solution to my problem. Everything held upgreat andI have 2 rod blanks hanging in the string. Give Eric a call if interested ashe would know the correct line test (I think it's 40#). Rob Hoffhines from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 6 00:43:34 1998 Subject: drive belt Rob;I use a braided line that comes on a plastic reel sold for constructionlay- out or for masons line. I don't even know what it costs, but I'm sureits cheap, my boss gave it to me because he didn't like it, there's about500 yards on a reel and it can't be more than about $5.00. Look for thehollow braided line, I've seen both kinds.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 6 01:30:45 1998 Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:30:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: the look On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, john channer wrote: Dave; I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad THE LOOK can't kill, I would havebeen dead about 24 years ago, not to mention every time a package withrodbuiling stuff shows up at our door.My salvation is I don't go to bars orchase womenJohn Channer John, you're doing it all wrong. The late Gene Hill described what I saw demonstrated as an art form by my dad when I was a kid.Get your gear sent to a trusted friend's place and have him repack it all in an oversized box with old news papers and dead cockroaches and stuff then have him come over unannounced *while your wife is home*.He gives you this "old junk" he found that is too good to just throw out without seeing if his old friend would like some of it.You have to kind of politely sneer at it and chuck it in the corner and say you'll have a look later. When he's gone and your wife is watching walk over and give it a sort of tyre kickers kick and suggest going out hide it for a few weeks.If the wife is suspecious, just keep the details to the barest minimum and grin a lot.Dad lost the plot once and Mum zeroed in on him like wives sometimes do. Poor dad twisted and jumped about like a hooked steelhead but he paid the price in the end. "The Look" for a few weeks. It was just rotten luck Mum knew what a Weatherby was. I sometimes feel I'm missing out on a lot of the fun as I don't have these probles (so far). Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jefffly@choice.net Fri Feb 6 06:36:05 1998 HAA08991 Subject: Tonkin cane was delivered! I have received my first shipment of cane yesterday. I guess it is goodquality cane. I'm too new to this to know for sure. There are some growersmarks on a couple of culms, a leaf node I noticed and a couple of othersmall abrasions. One piece is big time out of round. I dont know if that isnormal or the first piece I use to practice splitting? The first moments of looking at the cane involved excitement, beingintimidated, back to excitement, and then feeling over whelmed. After anights sleep and re-reading the begining of every book on culms of cane, Ihave calmed down and will be able to start splitting cane this weekend. I'm confident that I can do this! I keep thinking of using split-cane rodsthat I have made with my own hands, fishing wih flies that I've tied, in asmall stream I love to fish with nobody else around. Thanks for everyones help in the past and in the future. Jeff Arnold Hamilton, Ohio from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Feb 6 07:43:14 1998 0700 Subject: Re: [1] Drive belt At 00:30 06/02/98 EST, you wrote:-Just tried something new that worked so well I'm still giddy. For mybindingbelt, I made a spliced loop of Cortland dacron "greenspot" trolling line.Thestuff is braided without a core so it lies flat on the rod. To splice I usedthe splicing needle also made by Cortland (I think). Anyway, there is noknotand the smoothness is a real treat. The idea wasn't totally mine EricHeckmanat Coren's Rod and Reel in Chicago (773-631- 5202) where I get most ofmycomponents came up with a solution to my problem. Everything held upgreatandI have 2 rod blanks hanging in the string. Give Eric a call if interested ashe would know the correct line test (I think it's 40#). Rob Hoffhines Rob, I know that there was a discussion of how to build a belt the same as youdescribe a couple of years ago on Rodmakers. The Best of the PlanningFormbook has the drawings and description of the technique by Gerry Arbeirterof Vancouver BC. I learned it from him about 8 years ago. about 50 lb. dacron. And they don't wear out. I think both Bass Pro and Cabela's sell the heavier dacron weights. Forthose guys on both coasts, the saltwater tackle shops sell the line for BIGfish. regards, Don from harry37@epix.net Fri Feb 6 07:47:45 1998 IAA28742 Subject: Re: Japaning? Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THELOOK. Dave L except from their mum! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/But it doesn't have the same effect! Greg Kuntz from JMennen473@aol.com Fri Feb 6 08:20:31 1998 Subject: Re: Drive belt to all: I am making braided binding belts out of a cotton/polyester cord for theGarrison binder. Very strong and knottless - any one interested e-mailme direct. John M. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 6 14:23:09 1998 Subject: Waxing A few days ago I posted about experimenting on waxing the plane sole.I've also have tried waxing the plane blade, and waxing the planing form.Waxing the plane blade does make a big difference, but it lasts for onlya couple splines. Waxing the blade also reduces the effort to plane, and along with waxing the sole, talk about a hot knife through warm butter!But, like I said, it lasts for only a couple splines. I don't think it's worththe effort to stop and take your plane apart to rewax every couple ofsplines. Waxing your planing form helps in making the effects of waxingyour plane sole last longer. Another plus with waxing your planing formis it should reduce the rusting of your forms when you are not using it. Darryl Hayashida from jczimny@dol.net Fri Feb 6 14:34:30 1998 Subject: YLI Anyone know the phone and address of the YLI Company?John zimny from DrBamboo@aol.com Fri Feb 6 15:00:18 1998 Subject: Re: YLI John;They moved from Utah to South Carolina.Nothin could be finah. Phone #800-854-1932. GEM from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 6 15:13:15 1998 Subject: RE:YLI RO>Anyone know the phone and address of the YLI Company?RO>John zimny YLI Thread Corp.P.O. Box 109Provo, UT 84603-1932(800) 854-1932 Angler's Workshop sells the YLI thread as their own Angler's brand and Iwould think that you could order in smaller quanities too. (360)225-9445 from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Feb 6 15:39:11 1998 ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:26:29 +1300 Subject: Re: Japaning? At 08:48 AM 6/02/98 -0500, you wrote:Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THELOOK. Dave L except from their mum! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/.WOW did I get .....THE LOOK .....today when I was to busy playing with thenewly arrived Snakemaker from Dave .. while the cows had got out andwere inthe garden chewing the roses .. Those experienced with THE LOOK , and not smart enough to have carriedTony's recommended avoidence measures , will know that it can be gradedbetween C- and A+ , a little like an old rod . This was a grade A+ ... LOOK ... once seen never forgotten .. iank Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Feb 6 16:04:25 1998 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA209212503; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:01:43 -0800 Subject: Magazine Has anyone received a copy of the Bamboo Flyrod Magazine or heard anymore updates since Wayne's general memo passed along on Jan. 7th? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jtien@ptdcs2.intel.com Fri Feb 6 16:20:43 1998 AA16222(5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 6 Feb 199814:20:39-0800 Subject: my rod refinishing project and winding check Hi,First off, I's like to thank all they have emailed me and offeredsuggestionson the type of finish I should use on the rod. The information is greatly appreciated. Now I have a question on winding checks.... 1. Normal winding checks available on the market are circular in shape;how isthat usually used on a hex rod? Do I have to shape the Ni-silver in somewayto fit the blank? 2. I recalled there was a discussion a while about hex winding checks andhow tomake them. Howver, I've neglected to save those messages. Can some kindsoul repost the instructions or point me to an archive for those recentmessages? Thanks in advance. Joe from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 6 16:40:03 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine No word yet for me. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: MagazineDate: Friday, February 06, 1998 2:04 PM Has anyone received a copy of the Bamboo Flyrod Magazine or heard anymore updates since Wayne's general memo passed along on Jan. 7th? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Feb 6 17:29:45 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Drive belt I made a modification of Garrison's binder based on Bob Crompton'sbinder, but not just like it. After fiddling around with it it worksgreat. The belt I'm currently using is 1/8" space age stuff that yousplice by melting the ends together with a soldering iron. It worksgreat for bigger diameter sections, but not so well for the skinny endsof tips. I'm going to play with the length of the belt, but may trydacron for tips next time. Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 6 18:14:15 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine I talked to Mark Metcalf on wednesday of this week and the magazines areatthe postoffice to be delivered. You should see it in your mailbox late nextweek or early the following.Bret from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Feb 6 18:26:50 1998 19:26:14 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: test message from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:10:53 1998 Subject: Re: the look John,I'm with you. I don't do bars or chase women.The only thing I do isfish andbuy my toys ( and work ). And as you said. If THE LOOK could kill, i'd beendead many years ago. Lukely, they get over it. Dave from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:20:25 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Tony,You've got a point there. My mum could give some looks that couldkill. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:24:00 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? When she gives me The Look , if it lasts more than one day. It's like themovie" The Night of the Living Dead ". I go out in my shop and stay there. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:31:34 1998 Subject: Re: YLI John,YLI CorporationP.O. Box 109Provo, ut 84603-01091-800-854-1932 1-801-377-3900 My latest order came from: YLI Corporation161 W. Main St.Rock Hill, SC 29730 PH. 803-985-3100FAX-803-985-3106 Hope this helps- Dave LeClair from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Feb 6 19:34:56 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Waxing SalarFly@aol.com wrote: A few days ago I posted about experimenting on waxing the plane sole.Big Snip from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:37:21 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Ian,I hope you've got a shop to hide in for a while. It sounds like shewillnot want to see your face for a while. Better keep those cows in check. Dave LeClair from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Feb 6 19:41:06 1998 (AIX4.2/UCB8.7/8.7) with SMTP id UAA51924 for ; Fri,6 Feb 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Hmmm, mailing out product before invoices arrive???Anyone receive a bill yet?Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/a.htm Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: I talked to Mark Metcalf on wednesday of this week and the magazinesare atthe postoffice to be delivered. You should see it in your mailbox late nextweek or early the following.Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:41:28 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Bret,When you get yours, could you e-mail me the info to subscribe to themag. Thanks, Dave LeClair from Canerods@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:56:26 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine In a message dated 98-02-06 20:43:52 EST, you write: Nope. Don B. from Canerods@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:56:49 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine In a message dated 98-02-06 20:44:02 EST, you write: Dave, Do it on their web site - you got the url? Don B. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:16:05 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Don,I don't have there url. Could you give it to me? Thanks, Dave L. from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 6 20:30:06 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/index2.html ----------From: LECLAIR123@aol.com Subject: Re: MagazineDate: Friday, February 06, 1998 6:14 PM Don,I don't have there url. Could you give it to me? Thanks, Dave L. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 6 20:32:45 1998 Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:32:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japaning? On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: When she gives me The Look , if it lasts more than one day. It's like themovie" The Night of the Living Dead ". I go out in my shop and stay there. Dave L. It's been going on for years. Imagine what Mr caveman got from Mrs caveman when he traded the hindquarter of (megafauna of your choice) for that neat new fangled clovis point some old guy in the cave down the valley just started chipping out. I wonder if he ever used the point or just hung it up on the wall? ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 6 20:35:39 1998 Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:35:32 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japaning? On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Ian Kearney wrote:.WOW did I get .....THE LOOK .....today when I was to busy playing with thenewly arrived Snakemaker from Dave .. while the cows had got out andwere inthe garden chewing the roses .. Those experienced with THE LOOK , and not smart enough to have carriedTony's recommended avoidence measures , will know that it can begradedbetween C- and A+ , a little like an old rod . This was a grade A+ ... LOOK ... once seen never forgotten .. At least they didn't make it to the living room!!! If that'd happened it'd have been all over red rover:-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:40:39 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Don, Thanks alot. I'll check it out. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:46:23 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? At least Mr. Caveman could club his wife for giving him the Look. Nowdays,allwe have to do is think of it and she will have you arrested. Boy, what apredicament we got our selves into.Life sure was alot easyer when I was single,livinghomewith mum and pop. What ya gonna do. Dave L. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:55:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Magazine Davce, will do I also have his phone# (ah caller ID) if you want to call him.bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:58:02 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Magazine Mark said the invoices are on the way also. like most magazines youususllyreceive the mag b4 the invoice.bret from harsha@aros.net Fri Feb 6 21:04:37 1998 20:04:32 Subject: Re: Japaning? LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: When she gives me The Look , if it lasts more than one day. It's like themovie" The Night of the Living Dead ". I go out in my shop and stay there. Dave L. I've been divorced since 1979. Forgotten what the "LOOK" looks like. Iguess being an ugly old 54 year old bachelor has it's advantages!!!!!! Mike from wfmack@evansville.net Sat Feb 7 00:34:14 1998 (1568 bytes) by world.evansville.netvia sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) ()(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: Heating Nodeless. Onis Cogburn wrote: I am curious how you nodeless rod builders are heat treating thecane. Up until now I have been putting the split pieces on a cookiesheet. However, I do not like the results. The short sections bowand I would like to avoid this result if possible. I kind of like heat treating before splitting but I tried splitting first.I bundled the splits in bunches of six and bound them using an old homadebobbin and some quilting thread. The idea was to let the heat do some ofthe straightning. It worked, they came out straight. If you are heatinghigh temp for a short period of time, splitting first would probably givethe most uniform temperature distribution but if you are heating at aslowenough rate for the bamboo temperature to equalize, I prefer heatingbeforesplitting. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.comCraig--What time and temp did you use on your nodeless bundles? Thanks. Bill from dragnfly@uniserve.com Sat Feb 7 03:32:51 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Yes please email me the info as well,Thanxsteve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Magazine Bret,When you get yours, could you e-mail me the info to subscribe tothemag. Thanks, Dave LeClair from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Feb 7 06:41:17 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Magazine Steve,There is a web page and I'm sure someone will put up the address heresoonthat is how i subscribed. If not I will e-mail you the info.Bret from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Feb 7 06:56:13 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA20213 for; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:03:53 GMT Subject: Re: the look At 19:04 05/02/98, you wrote:Dave; I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad THE LOOK can't kill, I would havebeen dead about 24 years ago, not to mention every time a package withrodbuiling stuff shows up at our door.My salvation is I don't go to bars orchase womenJohn Channer Really sorry to hear that John. I can thoroughly recommend both. JC from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 7 07:29:39 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides At 20:47 05/02/98 EST, you wrote:After spending the last 30 years refinishing fire arms. I have done aboutevery kindof plating and finishing there is. The bright chrome you see is calleddecoritivechrome. It is usually plated over nickel and that is plated over copper. Dave, from what I've been told the Perfection SSGC guides are hard chromeplatedover stainless. They sure are bright though. Very unlike the ones Ireceived lately. Am concerned about the quality of the later ones. Havewrote to Perfection for an explanation of what's going on. Let the listknow when I get the result. I know from previous experience that some snake guides sold have nochromeor other hardened finish @ all. They last poorly. I got a bunch about 25years ago - figured I had a deal - they were about 1/2 the cost of thePerfection guides. Well the "cheapies" lasted about a year and then theyhad groves in them. Just spooked that the "new" Perfection guides arehistory repeated. regards, Don from sonners2@bellsouth.net Sat Feb 7 09:29:03 1998 Subject: help me please I am starting a home based business building and repairng fishing rods ofall types.I was wanting to put together a labor price list so that I could share itwith my customers. My problem is not knowing what to charge for certainitems. If you could help me or know of a list I would appreciate it. Thank you My e-mail address is sonners2@bellsouth.net Anthony from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 7 09:56:47 1998 Subject: web George (GEM) have you got your web site up yet? jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 7 10:24:00 1998 Subject: Re: NS source assistance Can Nickle Silver wire be hardened enough to use for guides? if so,whats the process. jerry from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Feb 7 10:36:34 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides I know from previous experience that some snake guides sold have nochromeor other hardened finish @ all. They last poorly. I got a bunch about 25years ago - figured I had a deal - they were about 1/2 the cost of thePerfection guides. Well the "cheapies" lasted about a year and then theyhad groves in them. Just spooked that the "new" Perfection guides arehistory repeated. regards, Don, I have been "using" perfection for the last year or so and have gottonvarious sizes from various vendors around the country - many differentvariations of black, but all very hard when I try to file the feet - boththe surface chrome and the base metal have been tough materialespeciallythe chrome. Have you tried fileing the feet or simply daring to run aswiss file over any part of the guide? That at least should say somethingabout the surface hardness Ted G. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Feb 7 11:40:59 1998 Subject: Bamboo Rod Mag. URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 7 11:44:52 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry - To the best of my knowledge, none of the nickel silver alloys canbehardened by any method except work hardening. In other words, you wouldhaveto buy the wire hard drawn to begin with. Even if you do this the hardnesswill not approach that of a modern coated guide, or of the old styletungstensteel guides.I have seen the stuff used for guides on old rods, but wear resistance is adirect function of hardness. The most you can get out of NS at extra springtemper is a Rockwell hardness of about B 100, which corresponds to about20 onthe Rockwell C scale. Hard chrome plating is about C 60. That is a hugedifference. I would not recommend NS for guides unless the rod is to beverylightly used. from jczimny@dol.net Sat Feb 7 12:53:42 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry Foster wrote: assistance Can Nickle Silver wire be hardened enough to use for guides? if so,whats the process. jerryJerry,I would think that NS in any of the alloys would be a poor material forany type of surface that is subbect to abrasion. It cannot be hardenedexcept by work hardening. You'd have to buy it drawn in the full hardcondition. I would opt for stainless in one of the "hardenable" alloys.John from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 7 14:22:40 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry Foster wrote:Can Nickle Silver wire be hardened enough to use for guides? if so,whats the process.Jerry,I would say "No", it cannot be hardened enough to withstand muchshooting of line. It was certainly used, and I can send you a few if youneed them; when I bought a rod a few years ago that had NS snakes Ireplaced them with reverse twist, low-profile snakes. Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 7 14:26:47 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry,Strangely, while I have little confidence in the wear of NS snakes, Ihave a NS stripper that has seen a lot of use and shows no trace ofgrooving.Best regards,Reed from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 7 14:38:13 1998 Subject: guides Thanks guys I had come buy several rolls of NS wire and had tried several hardeningtechniques.. to no avail. so I think the consensus is that it's not apractical solution. I'll use it for h