from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 1 08:10:20 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: planing forms john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them was drivingmecrazy. >Snip from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 1 08:15:15 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Waterstone flattening Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I noticed the discussion onwaterstones tendency to be less than perfectly flat. I just got one, a1000/6000 combo with Nagura stone, and it doesn't sharpen nearrly asquickly as fine sandpaper on glass. I don't want to buy a $75 diamondstone to flatten a $30 waterstone. How would one flatten with glass andsandpaper? 1000 grit? 800 grit? 2000 grit? No paper at all?Thanks in advanceHarry Boyd from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 1 08:43:05 1998 Subject: planing forms Harry;A planer designed for metal sounds like the ideal tool to me, I didn't knowthere was such a critter.Talk to your friend, but it seems to me that ifyour forms wre bolted together first, then run through his planer, theyshould come out either perfect or maybe just needing a slite touch upbefore grooving.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 1 09:02:21 1998 Subject: stress curves Any and All;I've just been at Frank Stetzer's version of Hexrod (BTW, many thanks toFrank from me and my server, I think my bill is going to increasedramatically). I was wondering if anyone would care to help me tounderstand how the differences in stress curve shapes when comparingrodsof the same length and line wieght translate into different rod actionsand ability to roll cast, distance cast, etc. I was comparing Garrison's212, Dickersons 8014 and Wayne's 8052 this morning and they all haveverydifferent and individual stress curves. I have built the Garrison rod andknow how it casts and will build the others as soon as time and budgetallow, but I would like broaden my understanding of theory first. Pleaseemail me direct with any comments.Thanks in advance.John(stress curve challenged)ChannerDurango, Co. from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 1 09:14:41 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdriving mecrazy. >Snip I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metal planer,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Any suggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydOnce you take the hard "skin" off of CRS, stresses are relieved and itbegins to do a dimensional "dance". If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.Remember, Garrison used CRS because it was cheap and available. Thereare other products.John from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 1 10:07:42 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: planing forms J. C. Zimny wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdrivingme crazy. >Snip > I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metal planer,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Any suggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydJZ wrote ... If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.... There are other products.Forgive my ignorance, John, but what is normalized steel? If youhavesuggestions for materials other than CRS, I'd love to hear them. Thanks, Harry from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 10:26:03 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA7807 Subject: Re: Books Hi, If you have Stuart Kirkfield's book, I am interested. As for getting ridof theentire lot to people who will appreciate them, I'd suggest first getting alist to-gether. Then post to the classified ad at http://www.flyfishing.com orsomeof the other ones. Then you'll be prepared when you get responses asking Good luck,George ----------From: Bill Fink Subject: BooksDate: Thursday, January 29, 1998 4:08 PM To the list,A question a bit off the subject. It makes little sense for me to passonto my family my quality classic fishing and hunting books since sadlytheyhave other interests. Any suggestions on how to liquidate the collectionofover 100 volumes would be appreciated. Bill from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 1 10:35:05 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms-Larger Reel Seat-Up or Down John,I forgot to ask you if you want the larger reel seat i'm making foryou,my normal up-locking or do you want me to make it down-locking like theothertwo? Dave LeClair from madcliff@mssl.uswest.net Sun Feb 1 10:39:21 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id JAA01021 for Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube I've been diluting Helmsman about 10% with mineral spirits for dipping and have gotten excellent results. I have a question for you folks who are using polyurethane and drying rods in the tube to keep dust out. Are you doing anything special with regard to the recoat time (normally 2-8 hours)? I tried drying a rod in a 3" tube a couple of years ago, and it styed tacky for a day and a half. This was in the summer, with the temperature in the 80s nd low humidity. --Matt C.Missoula, Montana from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 1 10:48:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Special threads In a message dated 2/1/98 4:28:34 AM, you wrote: Hank - Thanks for the offer, but I have determined to go with the Hoppe'sthread, which is 5/16-27. Listmember Larry Blan advises me that anadapter isavailable from Brownells that would also allow the use of Britishstandardimplements. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 1 11:10:19 1998 Subject: Makers Rod Update If you haven't seen it yet, the current issue of Fly Rod & Reel(march/april) is on the street. In it you will see the excellent newsreleasethat Jim Butler did for The Makers Rod including Larry Cory's artwork. I'msure that this will be a great help in getting the project rolling towards asell out. As I sit at my computer I can look over the clutter across the loftand see cartons and cartons of shipping tubes containing the many partsthatin the next little bit will become the rod. In talking with Steve Southardyesterday we are both still convinced that however the outcome theprojectwill be a suscess. The potential for the local watersheds is 2 1/2 timesthatof the local fund raising of the George Mason Chapter banquet and raffles.Mixthat in with the matching funds that are consistantly made available andyoubegin to see the significance that this fund raiser could have on the localfisheries.Besides the FR&R piece - Mark Metcalf at The Bamboo Fly Rod has givenspace as well (hope to see something the first of next week) along withseveral other flyfishing organization newsletters and local newspapers.As a side issue concerning the planning of TTBBBQ IV. We are looking tokeep the costs of both the Rodmakers get together and the BBQ at aminimal butyet have the same offerings as in the years past (aprons - Picnic at Franks-Friday night pizza party hence forth to be known as Rodmakers RoadkillCookoff- The BBQ). One of the overheads that many may not realize is the cost ofthetent for the weekend which runs in the $500 - $600.And as the time to the get together grows nearer perhaps some thoughttothe activities - a big issue from last year is the need for added workspacewhich will be addressed with the addition of several workbenches underthetent. So in your plans include your tools for tuning and use.Well I need to take one of those six little pills that doc gave me to curethe crud. LaterWayne from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Feb 1 12:28:41 1998 Subject: Re: Drip Dip Tube In a message dated 2/1/98 8:42:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,madcliff@mssl.uswest.net writes: I have a question for you folks who are using polyurethane and drying rods in the tube to keep dust out. Are you doing anything special with regard to the recoat time (normally 2-8 hours)? I tried drying a rod in a 3" tube a couple of years ago, and it styed tacky for a day and a half. This was in the summer, with the temperature in the 80s nd low humidity. I leave my rods in the tube overnight with a rag draped over the top.since rod making isn't my day job, I can't recoat any sooner than18 hours. For final drying, once the varnish sets up, but still sortof soft, I take the rod out and hang it up from a rafter. When it is atthat point dust won't stick, but if you press your finger on the varnishit will leave an impression. I leave it to dry for at least three daysbefore I start handling it. Another factor for me might be the factthat I thin the polyurethane by 20% with paint thinner. I don't likethe extra thick glossy varnish jobs I've seen on some rods, it tendsto round out the hex points. I like flat flats and sharp hex points. Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sun Feb 1 12:47:06 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: hide glue Making a Waterproof Hot Hide Glue Anyone who has built a violin or cello with high quality hot hide glueonly to watch it come apart in the humidity of a hot muggysummer day will find this method interesting. Because it is so simple tomake, I don't doubt that the old Italian violin makers knewabout it and used it. After all, they had to deal with the same problemsof humidity that we do. Incidentally, this method also rendersthe dried glue less susceptible to attack from molds, insects, andbacteria. I found this method and adapted it from a book called Henley's Formulas.It can not be found in the section heading of glues orwaterproof glues. Rather it is hidden somewhere in the book underanother heading which I can't remember. In fact, the authordescribes the accident that caused the discovery but only as it relatedto something else.> My method for making waterproof hide glue is as follows: make a supersaturated solution of alum (aluminum sulfate). Next, takeone teaspoon of this solution and add it to a quart of water. Then usethis water to soften your glue granules. When the glue hasabsorbed what water it will, heat it and use it. You can not add moresolution to the glue once it has been heated as it will causethe glue to coagulate into a single lump. But you can thin this "alumed"glue with tap water. I use a convex glass plate to cover myglue; it allows the condensate to drip back into the pot. Because of thepresence of alum, this glue resists spoilage for some time. Ifind also that it can be allowed to cool, chilled and reheated severaltimes before it begins to disintegrate. from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Feb 1 13:06:20 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening In a message dated 2/1/98 6:21:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I use a rather large 18" diameter circular flat metal plate. I justsprinkle water on it and start swirling it around. I have used apiece of plate glass, and it works okay, but the sound of thewaterstone grinding on the glass got on my nerves. But hey, if the fine sandpaper sharpening method works foryou, then do it that way. I haven't tried it myself, but I readabout it a long time ago in a woodworking magazine, andI don't see why it wouldn't work. The same principles apply,polish the back of your blade, and polish off the microscopicburr, and it should be just as sharp. Darryl Hayashida from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sun Feb 1 13:42:57 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size SalarFly wrote: Take the 45" measurement, subtract it from the 50" measurement,divide by 5 (the distance from 45 to 50). This is the diameter changeper inch. Since you are looking for the 48" measurement, which is twoinches from the 50" measurement, take the diameter change per inch,multiply by two and subtract it form the 50" measurement. This isn't meant to be a flame or anything, but isn't it obvious how tofigure this out? Or am I turning into the list curmudgeon? Darryl Hayashida Just remember, everyone is ignorant, just in different areas. from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 1 13:58:47 1998 Subject: Re: ferrule size george, darryl, others. I sent him the entire rod in 1 in. increments, i think, subsequently, hedecided to build a different rod? jerry from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Feb 1 15:15:05 1998 Subject: Classicane? All, I bought a near-mint (unfished - varnish on one stripper winding iscracked) 9' Classicane "Steve Morgan" (3/2) rod today, bag & tube. Butt& mid have nice 3x3 node spacing, tips less successful at spacings. I was told that the rod was maybe 10 years old, no other details exceptmaybe it's from a Colorado company. Can anyone tell me about the builder and/or any other details? Is thereany source books with any Classicane info? Lastly, how about it's marketprice? Don Burns from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 1 17:12:06 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA11850 Subject: Re: Classicane? Believe Classicane was/is a California company though in the 70s some oftheir rods were apparently built (or assembled, since that is what DeBellappears to have done a lot of) by Fred DeBell in Denver. Try here for someinfo http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm At 12:28 PM 2/1/98 -0600, you wrote:All, I bought a near-mint (unfished - varnish on one stripper winding iscracked) 9' Classicane "Steve Morgan" (3/2) rod today, bag & tube. Butt& mid have nice 3x3 node spacing, tips less successful at spacings. I was told that the rod was maybe 10 years old, no other details exceptmaybe it's from a Colorado company. Can anyone tell me about the builder and/or any other details? Is thereany source books with any Classicane info? Lastly, how about it's marketprice? Don Burns cc: INT:CaneClinic@aol.com Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 1 17:39:22 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves John -I'll throw out what could be termed the short explaination. Over the years I have found that the term 'stress curve' can be replacedwith a less intimidating 'character curve'. I don't know why but it seemlikeit a an easier pill to swallow for some reason. So let's take a look at whatvaries about the character of rods the generic terms fast, medium, slow,¶bolic have been and are used today - only on a newer material. A fastrodis one that when loaded in casting flexes most in the upper regions of therodand even as line (or tip load) is added increases flexing downward at aslowrate. At the other extreme is the slow rod that when loaded in castingflexeslower into the rod and quickly flexes into the handle. If you were to lookthe'character curve of each you would see this. The fast rod would have agreateramplitude then the slower rod. Defining amplitude as the difference fromhighstress values to low stress values. Remember the stress values controltheamount of material or restance to action at the different locationsthrough arod. Now let's change the statement to say - The greater the amplitude thegreater the range of loading of the rod - the lower the amplitude the lowerthe range of loading. You're familiar with what the Garrison semi - parabolic graphs to. Thegraph that best describes the parabolic would be one that looks like areversed 'J'. With the action being described as a flexible tip with a stiffmid section and a softer butt. The stress values would start highdesending tolower values that bottom out graph wise in the mid section and then raiseagain in the butt section. A parabolic can have different amplitudes thusdifferent speeds. from your example rods the Dickerson is a fast action - the garrison aslower action - the 8052 is a parabolic Wayne from lblan@provide.net Sun Feb 1 17:52:45 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening Harry; you can find diamond stones for far less than $75. It is well worththe investment. The time saved by using the diamond stone and then goingtothe fine grit waterstones is amazing. Having a good edge makesresharpeninggo much faster too. You can use silicon carbide paper on a flat piece of glass, I use a 14"x14"piece of float glass, it works just fine. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Waterstone flattening Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I noticed the discussion onwaterstones tendency to be less than perfectly flat. I just got one, a1000/6000 combo with Nagura stone, and it doesn't sharpen nearrly asquickly as fine sandpaper on glass. I don't want to buy a $75 diamondstone to flatten a $30 waterstone. How would one flatten with glass andsandpaper? 1000 grit? 800 grit? 2000 grit? No paper at all?Thanks in advanceHarry Boyd from RONGEY@aol.com Sun Feb 1 18:08:05 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening I use 320 grit wet/dry paper (dry) supported on the table of my table saw(flat) or my band saw. Seems like a piece of plate glass would be asatisfactory flat surface as well. I flatten my stone after it hasthoroughlydried, since it seems to be easier than when it is wet. My $.02. Ken Rongey from d_price@global2000.net Sun Feb 1 18:58:13 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id TAA24973 for; Sun, 1 Feb 1998 19:58:10 -0500 Subject: Progress Hi all,Have been working the last week on tooling up to start splitting cane.I have my rough planing form done( purpleheart 40" as per Garrison)andmy preliminary planing forms done(also purpleheart with duplex ajustingscrews ala "Garrison" 40" also).I used 1/4-20 and 5/16-24 dies for theduplex screws wich where made on my lathe.I am also 90% on my bindingmachine that I'l have to get pictures on the net somewhere soon so youcan see,easyer than trying to explain. I've deffinetly had to much freetime lately!!!!.Oh, by the way nice post Wayne on the stress curves thing!!!!!,thanks itwas very helpfull to better understand that topic!!. Dave Price (getting picts on a site soon !) from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 1 19:21:54 1998 Subject: stress curves Wayne;Thanks alot for the clarification. I have read most of the archives,including your explanation of the math involved on Jerry's homepage, but Istill didn,t quite get it.Having never cast a parabolic rod I'm still alittle mystified by that term, but from what I read , I take it that aparabolic won't collapse as soon ( orshould I say cast a longer linewithout the cast collapsing ) as a rod with a more conventional taper.Isthe curve of your 8052 fairly typical of parabolics? Also, if I alter thecurve of the Dickerson to take some ,but not all, of the hump out of themiddle,will I wind up with a slitely slower action, but one that is stillfaster than Garrison's? Thanks again for all your help.John Channer from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 1 20:10:03 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms Harry Boyd wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdrivingme crazy. >Snip > > I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metalplaner,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Anysuggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydJZ wrote ... If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.... There are other products.Forgive my ignorance, John, but what is normalized steel? If youhavesuggestions for materials other than CRS, I'd love to hear them.Thanks, HarryNormalized steel is stress relieved. John from Brandstay@aol.com Sun Feb 1 20:50:49 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening In a message dated 98-02-01 18:56:53 EST, you write: Larry, what grit diamond stone did you get/JA from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 1 20:52:50 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Drip Dip Tube Matt,I find that it takes about 3 days to get the finish hard enuf to removethesticks from the tube. This is in less than 50% r.h. with the temp. around 80deg. f. If I dilute the spar 10% it might be quicker.Regards,Hank.P.S. As I sand between coats the time between coats can be long. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:08:03 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves Wayne, Darryl, et al,Am I missing something here? I assume that the higher the stress curveatany given point the greater the bend in the rod. If the high point of thecurve is closer to the tip the "faster" the action,lower down the slower. Ifyou got a double barrel shape you might have 2 spikes on the stress curve.IfI'm all wet on this somebody ought to straighten me out, please.Hank- I just learned to turn this thing on -Woolman. from lblan@provide.net Sun Feb 1 21:16:42 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening I'm just using a fine right now. I'm still considering the medium. Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening In a message dated 98-02-01 18:56:53 EST, you write: the fine grit waterstones is amazing. Having a good edge makesresharpeninggo much faster too. >> Larry, what grit diamond stone did you get/JA from DRinker370@aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:32:49 1998 Subject: Re: Waterstone flattening Ive been using a broken piece of 3/8 glass shelving and 100 or 220 gritwetdry sandpaper for years. By wetting the glass and sandpaper I retain aflatsurface that adheres nicely to the glass. I have always found cupping ofthestones to be fairly hard to stop even when carefully honing blades. Iusually touch up my stones frequently because of this. Leaving yourstonessubmerged is water is a good way to keep them in condition. Dave from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Feb 1 21:45:57 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves The whole stress cure thing can be daunting. I hate it when a graph of arodturns out totally different from what I thought it would look like. I guessitmade a little more sense when I found a rod that casted ugly and thencouldsee why. It seems to be where a rod bends and how much as far as howpeaks andvalleys go. Comparing a Garrison 201E curve to a Payne 98 helped me grasp theconcept of how amplitude affects a rod's fastness. If you get a chance tocasta parabolic and look at a curve it seems to be a little clearer how a curveplays in the real world. This whole rod design stuff is very cool...too bad ittakes so long to actually get to try an idea out, especially if you're closebut not right on your projected goal. "I've been there, I know"-Wolfman Jack Rob from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 2 01:36:36 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves In a message dated 2/1/98 7:14:50 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: Am I missing something here? I assume that the higher the stresscurve atany given point the greater the bend in the rod. If the high point of thecurve is closer to the tip the "faster" the action,lower down the slower.Ifyou got a double barrel shape you might have 2 spikes on the stresscurve. IfI'm all wet on this somebody ought to straighten me out, please. Look at a Garrison rod stress curve. It goes up to it's maximumpoint, then pretty much stays there all the way to the handle. That'swhat I call a slow rod. Then look at the stress curve of the Cattanach7' 4 wt. 2 piece it has a max point near the tip, but what makes it fastis it drops down to 150,000 at about mid way to the handle. I postedmy interpretation of stress curves a few moths ago, with ascii artdrawings of the graphs and explanations. I'll see if I can dig it upagain, or perhaps someone can tell us what month to look upin the archives. Darryl Hayashida from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 03:33:35 1998 Subject: Cane tools boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0 I build regular grafite rods ect but I am interested in the art of =building with cane. Some questions and request's I have are Where can I =find the necassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And where can I get =tonkin Bamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that works with=bamboo in my area.Thanx Steve ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0 I build regular grafite rods ectbut = interested in the art of building with cane. Some questions and = are Where can I find the necassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And = can I get tonkin Bamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that = bamboo in my area.Thanx =Steve ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01BD2F7A.4D9EA4C0-- from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Feb 2 06:55:16 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms/normalized steel Normalized steel is stress relieved.John Ok John, can one get normalized CRS, or is that an oxymoron? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Feb 2 08:44:52 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 09:08:37 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? RO>Don,RO> Another way to get that gold color you want,is to send me yourRO>ferrules andRO>I can Bronze plate them for you. This is sort of a gold color. I normallyRO>darken theRO>Bronze finish to get what they call English Bronze. But, if I don'tdarken iRO>andRO>leave it as it is ,it comes out of the plating bath as a gold golor. IchargRO>$10.00RO>per set of ferrules or to do a reel seat. This includes the returnshipping. RO> Dave LeClair Dave, I'm going to have to hold off - went buying crazy this weekend at thelocal bi- annual fishing tackle swapmeet.I ended up buying a 9' W&M Granger Deluxe and the 9' Classicane. My wifegot me away before I bought anything else. I've still got to buy my'98 fishing license and nat. forest parking permit and the wife is nothappy - the honey-do list just grew by 3 long pages. If I don't buy my license with the remains of my loot, I'll be missingout on the best local part of trout fishing season AND next month's FlyFisherman (March issue) is running an article on local Piru Creek (goodgrief is that the best stream that they can find to write about), so thelookie-loo crowds will increase 10 fold, IMHO. Might be time to start a used cane rod list I guess, 25+ rods is too afew too many. Don from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 2 10:15:50 1998 11:15:08 Subject: Browning Waterton VII Fly Rod Does anyone know anything about these fly rods? I know someone whobroke the butt section of one. Brian from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 2 10:23:24 1998 11:22:40 Subject: Heat Treating Nodeless Rods Has anyone heat treated pre-planed strips the way you do a "noded" rod?Would the splices fail at those temperatures? I cooked my sections inthe kitchen oven for 40 minutes at 300 degrees. I'm assuming that thestrips will absorb moisture (we have very high humidity, even in thewinter) in the next week or two before I'm able to plane them down andglue them. Shouldn't I heat them again? Brian "Going Nodeless!" from ThomasP@POSTOFFICE.nacm.com Mon Feb 2 10:39:38 1998 SVR4) Subject: RE: Waterstone flattening Try carbide powder + water on a glass plate on which you have stuck some transparent 3M plastic sheeting. That's how Veritas does it with their stone pond and it works fine for me.---------- Subject: Waterstone flattening Any ideas on flattening waterstones. I noticed the discussion onwaterstones tendency to be less than perfectly flat. I just got one, a1000/6000 combo with Nagura stone, and it doesn't sharpen nearrly asquickly as fine sandpaper on glass. I don't want to buy a $75 diamondstone to flatten a $30 waterstone. How would one flatten with glass andsandpaper? 1000 grit? 800 grit? 2000 grit? No paper at all?Thanks in advanceHarry Boyd from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 2 10:44:49 1998 Subject: Quad rod Can anyone out there help me to build a quad rod? What do I need as far asforms go etc. , etc.Bret from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 2 10:49:13 1998 Subject: Stress Curves Revisited The following is what I posted a few months ago, which was a repost from about 1 1/2 years ago. If someone has a different interpretation of stress curves, I won't be offended if you disagree with mine. Let's hear what you have to say! Darryl Hayashida ************************************************************** In it's most basic use a stress curve shows you how closea split cane rod is to breaking with the weight and length of line you specified. Garrison believed 200,000 ounces persquare inch was a good, safe upper level. In reality you cango up to 220,000 or 230,000 without any problems. Garrison himself went up to 220,000 on his lighter rods. Garrison believed that below the 140,000 point the bamboo stopped flexing. Some basic information on stress curves: The X axis is rod length, with the tip on the left and the handle on the right. The Y axis is ounces per square inch. This sounds like a pressure, as in psi, but it is really a stress measurement. The square inch refers to the area of the cross section of the rod at that point. The higher the stress curve goes, the more the rod will bend, taking the curve as a whole. I say this because a reading of 200,000 near the tip, where the rod is thin in diameter is going to bend more than a reading of 200,000 near the handle where the bamboo is thicker. But, if you compare a whole stress curve of one rod to the whole stress curve of another rod, the rod with a higher reading at the same point along the length will bend more at that point. A stress curve means nothing if you can't relate it to something. The only way you can start to see how a stress curve can help you is to graph up the stress curves of real rods and cast them. In my case I didn't have a bunch of rods to try. I had to make them. I now have a bunch of experimental rods lying around, but fortunately I was able to sell a few of the better experiments. I was also lucky in accidentally making a rod I really like (a Cattanach taper) on my third attempt, and being able to contrast that to a rod I really didn't like (a Garrison taper). As you get deeper into stress curves you can begin to pick out certaincharacteristics that tell you what kind of action the rod has, or will have if it hasn't been made yet. A Garrison rod, which I consider to be slow, has a well rounded "hump" near the tip and a fairly slow drop off as it goes towards the handle. Let's see if I can do this with ASCII art. || * * | * * * * *| * * * * *| * | * | *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The rod that I'm always raving about, the Cattanach 7' 0" 4 wt, I consider to be fairly fast. It has a stress curve like this: || * | * *| * * | * * | * * | * * *| * * * * ** *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ The blip near the handle is the Cattanach hinge, and it greatly enhances roll casting. Don't forget to put it in. I did and the rod I made was a terrible roll caster. It isn't as necessary on longer rods, but on shorter rods it's definitely needed. A Paul Young Para 15, what is described as a parabolic action looks like this: || * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| * * * *| *| *| *| *| *_*______________________________________________ Looking at this rod, and never having cast one, I would guess that it would feel fairly slow, due to the enhanced bending near the handle, but able to throw a lot of line, due to the stiff mid section. I would also guess that it could roll cast really well. There are as many variations of stress curves as there are rodmakers. This covers the slow, fast and parabolic actions. from maiello@yorku.ca Mon Feb 2 11:04:49 1998 (oW7/gB6pbWoavyxmc28EqWC4DTEreP8f@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id MAA21453 for ;Mon, 2 Feb Subject: Re: planing forms I made a set of forms from 3/4" CRS.Every machininst I talked to said It would bow if I tried to take the skinoff. I used a fly cutter and lots of coolant, and took off very little in onepass, and it was fine.It did need some touching up with a file because of the swirls, butnothing like 40 hours. John makes a good point, since if you get a good piece in the first place,it will save you that much work. If you buy a 12' piece and cut it in half, make sure you mark one face ofthe CRS at both ends. then when you put them together, keep these markedfaces on top. CRS can be off in dimension by a bit, but usually it is very consistentalong its length for a given side. Mauro On Sun, 1 Feb 1998, J. C. Zimny wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: john channer wrote:I made my own set of crs forms last fall and flattening them wasdrivingme crazy. >Snip > I have a friend with a sheet metal shop who owns a metal planer,similar to the bench planers we've all seen for wood. Any suggestionsas to the viability of its use in flattening cold rolled steel inpreparation for building forms?Harry BoydOnce you take the hard "skin" off of CRS, stresses are relieved and itbegins to do a dimensional "dance". If you're not going to usenormalized steel, my advice would be to choose the straightest andflatest and hand file the bad spots.Remember, Garrison used CRS because it was cheap and available. Thereare other products.John from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Feb 2 12:33:14 1998 (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id MAA15655 for ; Mon, 2 Feb1998 12:33:00 doing -bs Subject: moisture re-entry Somebody just asked about keeping moisture out after you glue upthe nodeless strips. Sorry, but I deleted the message too soon. Even if you do your tempering in the kitchen oven, its nice to havea long, low- temp oven to dry cane and keep strips dry as you work on them.I did some experiments last fall and 130 Deg F is enough to (gradually)drive out the moisture and keep it out. It helps extend the season, too,into the muggy summer months. I'm skeptical if any surface finish we would want to use will keep outmoisture indefinitely, but its a nice concept to start with dry cane.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Feb 2 12:41:16 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Treating Nodeless Rods In a message dated 2/2/98 4:26:19 PM, you wrote: Brian - I'm assuming you have used Titebond II as your splicing glue. If so Ithink you would be on dangerous ground if you went back up to 300degrees. Ithink a drying cabinet operating at low temperatures would be a betterdeal is not appealing, 200 degrees for an hour would probably not be harmfulandwould drive out most of the moisture. from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 2 13:14:47 1998 14:13:36 Subject: RE: moisture re-entry Did you have a problem with the glue failing at the splices at 130 deg? Brian -----Original Message-----From: Frank Stetzer [SMTP:stetzer@csd.uwm.edu]Sent: Monday, February 02, 1998 1:33 PM Subject: moisture re-entry Even if you do your tempering in the kitchen oven, its nice to havea long, low- temp oven to dry cane and keep strips dry as you work onthem.I did some experiments last fall and 130 Deg F is enough to(gradually)drive out the moisture and keep it out. It helps extend the season,too,into the muggy summer months. from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Feb 2 13:32:05 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve, where do you live in Canada? There are several bamboo rodbuildersin Ontario who could advise you. Also , we are hosting a Rod BuildersGathering in Fergus, Ont. on May 23/24 this spring. There will be a lot ofinfo for the new rod builder!!!!---------- Subject: Cane tools I build regular grafite rods ect but I am interested in the art of buildingwith cane. Some questions and request's I have are Where can I find thenecassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And where can I get tonkinBamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that works with bambooinmy area.Thanx Steve from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 14:19:28 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Im In British Columbia, But still ontario is better then the states for the$ exchange.Thanx for you help and look forward from hearing from you.Steve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 14:22:08 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Im in BC , shoot Id love to go to the gathering. Thanx anyways, And if youcan still help me that would be great. The thing Im looking for mainly isthe plaining form. Where does one get it or is there a different form that Ican use?Thanx Steve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools Steve, where do you live in Canada? There are several bamboo rodbuildersin Ontario who could advise you. Also , we are hosting a Rod BuildersGathering in Fergus, Ont. on May 23/24 this spring. There will be a lot ofinfo for the new rod builder!!!!----------From: steve Subject: Cane toolsDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 4:31 AM I build regular grafite rods ect but I am interested in the art of buildingwith cane. Some questions and request's I have are Where can I find thenecassary tools I need to work the Bamboo? And where can I get tonkinBamboo, I am from Canada and do not know anyone that works withbamboo inmy area.Thanx Steve from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Mon Feb 2 14:30:09 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id OAA16953 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id OAA24272 for ; Mon, 2 Feb1998 14:29:42 doing -bs Subject: RE: moisture re-entry No. But I'm not using Titebond. I'm using Gorilla glue. I don't think any of our modern glues will fail at 130F; itshotter than that in the car sometimes. But at 300F some might.Its an concern for straightening the glued up blank too. It would be easy enough to do a test, with whatever glue you wantto use. Others have used Titebind with success for the entire rod,including the nodeless splices.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Mon, 2 Feb 1998, Thoman, Brian wrote:Did you have a problem with the glue failing at the splices at 130 deg? Brian from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Feb 2 15:31:15 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Cane tools steve wrote: The thing Im looking for mainly is the plaining form. Where does one getit or is there a different form that I can use?Thanx SteveSnipped from dragnfly@uniserve.com Mon Feb 2 15:43:06 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools Thanx HarrySteve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools steve wrote: The thing Im looking for mainly is the plaining form. Where does one getit or is there a different form that I can use?Thanx SteveSnippedSteve, Visit Jerry Foster's Rodmakers page at: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm There you will find all kinds of information on almost every subjectyou can think of connected with bamboo rods. Then start buying books,reading, following the list, and ordering supplies. If all you've done is assemble graphite rods, you're in for a realtreat when you actually begin building them yourself! Good Luck, andwelcome to a great source of info for new and prospective builders. Harry Boyd from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 2 16:07:40 1998 Subject: Herter's rod ?s Hi Gang! Haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and I've got a little puzzle Ihope somebody can help me figure out. I've recently picked up a very nice little 2-pc 8-ft rod with two tips, newcondition and a very fine caster with 4-5 TT or WF-5 line. It has an inkedinscription saying "Herter's Inc., RH8C" and a gold decal next to the hook-keeper with "MADE IN ENGLAND" Color is a uniform dark-honey, the nodes are carefully staggered and thetaperis para- similar to the Thramer in the Archive. The tips appear to be wet-and-dry and the ferrules are Super Z. Now things start to get spooky: the black-tipped red windings are aboutsizeD; the DL reel seat is very cheap aluminum with a big plastic knob at thebutt; the reverse half-Wells grip is low-grade cork, filled with putty, andabout an inch longer than any I've ever seen; the winding check is aMontague-looking stamping, and such things as guide feet and general finish indicategreat haste and/or miserly practice. My theory is that it was made by Herter's from an English blank, but othershave suggested it was a kit, assembled and finished by a customer. Isanyonefamiliar with Herters' practices and suppliers. Any guess as to who madetheblank? I'll guess about early '70s for the date, but who knows? I'd like to just strip it down to the blank and re-do the whole thing withthehigh-grade fittings it deserves, but I'm having too much fun fishing it inthis spectacular El Nino weather! Recommending same to all of you,Davy from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 2 16:48:41 1998 Subject: Re: planing forms/normalized steel Steve Trauthwein wrote: Normalized steel is stress relieved.John Ok John, can one get normalized CRS, or is that an oxymoron? Regards, SteveIndependence, MODon't know. Most of that is done in Fab Shops. I'd go for a largesupplier's catalog of stock material and then I'd ask if any of hissuppliers can accomodate your needs. Tha problem is always the smallquantity.John from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon Feb 2 17:28:26 1998 17:27:49 dfw-ix16.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: url I ran onto a URL I thought some of you might be interested in. It is theentire military TC-524 machinery training manual. The lathe sectionaloneis 103 pages. Ir's downloadable as PDF files. http://www.atsc-army.org/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from dpeaston@wzrd.com Mon Feb 2 17:46:46 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA20271 for Subject: Re: Herter's rod ?s At 04:46 PM 2/2/98 EST, you wrote:Hi Gang! Haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and I've got a little puzzle Ihope somebody can help me figure out. Davy, I suspect that what you have is a kit rod based on a Partridge of Redichblank.Obviously the builder was "resourceful."Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 18:01:56 1998 Subject: RE:Herter's rod ?s RO>My theory is that it was made by Herter's from an English blank, butothersRO>have suggested it was a kit, assembled and finished by a customer. IsanyonRO>familiar with Herters' practices and suppliers. Any guess as to whomade thRO>blank? I'll guess about early '70s for the date, but who knows? Davy, I could look for more listings if you want better details, but I didfind an 8' Herter's (2/1) - 5/6 wt - in the autumm 1995 ClassicChronicle rod list. Dick Spurr's discription in the list sounds quite abit like yours except for apparent wrap quality - D/L seat with bakelitespacer and butt button, red tipped black wraps, impregnated cane, flykeeper, quality Z-type ferrules, good reel seat, good guide wraps. Wrap quality on yours makes me believe it was a kit rod or amateurrestoration job. Don Burns PS - With a single 9" short tip it was listed at $120. from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 2 18:09:52 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA05567 for Subject: Books Etc To the list;To those of you who suggested listing my books here, it doesn't seemethical or practical (9 pages). This list is cluttered up enough. But if youwould like to send your addresses off list I'll send one snailmail.To those seeking Kirkfield I don't have one. Also my Garrison is all fullof notations and is not included. My 1934 Holden is available, as is my1951Kreider and Herter but I have no idea what they are worth.To those asking about my health, thanks. I will no longer wade NY'sAusable, but even though a septegen- (can't spell it) I can still stay withmy lab when he's chasing a running pheasant (keeps you young, don't youknow?). With the years one becomes conscious of one's mortality. Iprobablyshould face the same problem with my flyrods. Was planning to leave abunchto the local TU chapter but they seem to be coming unglued.Bill from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Feb 2 18:13:11 1998 Subject: first tapered strip out Made a base for my planing form today, two 2x6's glued together. Made apreliminary planing form, just glued it rather than screwing ittogether, oak. Planed my first finish taper. Starting on the learning curve, I need totweek my plane so I am not having to work so hard at it. I did maintaina good 60* all around. I was rather proud of that. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 2 19:05:53 1998 Subject: Re: Books Etc Bill, listmembers If you would like to email me the list i would gladly post it on thearchive for you if that's a route you would like to go..the list andfellow rodmakers should consider it an honor to assist any member, ifpossible.The only requirement would be that the monitory dealings should behandled off the list. ANY OBJECTIONS????? Jerry jfoster@gte.net from RMargiotta@aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:14:12 1998 Subject: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (or any9'6"Granger for that matter)? Thanks. --Rich from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:15:12 1998 Subject: Wax On - Wax Off I was intrigued by the person who wrote in andsuggested that waxing your plane sole wouldgreatly reduce the effort it takes to plane bamboostrips, but like the other person who wrote in, Iwondered about wax getting on the bamboo, andmaking it so the glue would not stick. So I did a little experiment. I waxed one plane and left myother plane alone. I planed four strips on the sides,two with the waxed plane, and two with the unwaxedplane. I then glued the paired strips with polyurethaneglue. On both pairs of strips the bamboo broke beforethe glue let go, so I would say there is no contaminationof wax on the bamboo, or at least not enough to makea difference. Or perhaps the polyurethane glue actslike a solvent and dissolves away the wax. In any case, the effort to plane strips is dramaticallyreduced. The plane just glides over the strips and forsome reason I can set the blade shallower and takethinner shavings than before. I am definitely going tobe waxing my plane sole from now on. Next experiment - Wax the blade edge?...... Darryl Hayashida from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Feb 2 19:28:49 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Don,My wife won't let me go to those type of places, unless she is withme.Two years ago I went to a garage sale and bought ten rods at $50.00each.Shehad a fit.Untill I resold them at a fly fishing show for $2500.00.Womanjustdon't understand that we have to buy these things. My Honey-Do list just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think she'stryingto keep me busy,so I can'i go to all those garage sales and fly fishingshows. Let me know if there is anything I can help you with. Dave L. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Feb 2 20:12:38 1998 VAA10345;Mon, 2 Feb 1998 21:12:31 -0500 Subject: Re: Books Etc 23C49784CA9AB52F06206172" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 23C49784CA9AB52F06206172 Bill Before you get carried away - I want first dibs on the ultimate rod -the 5 sided one piece nodeless - That one is too good to leave to someonewho would not appreciate it or the construction. It is one fine fishingimplement. Chris Bill Fink wrote: To the list;To those of you who suggested listing my books here, it doesn't seemethical or practical (9 pages). This list is cluttered up enough. But if youwould like to send your addresses off list I'll send one snailmail.To those seeking Kirkfield I don't have one. Also my Garrison is all fullof notations and is not included. My 1934 Holden is available, as is my1951Kreider and Herter but I have no idea what they are worth.To those asking about my health, thanks. I will no longer wade NY'sAusable, but even though a septegen- (can't spell it) I can still stay withmy lab when he's chasing a running pheasant (keeps you young, don't youknow?). With the years one becomes conscious of one's mortality. Iprobablyshould face the same problem with my flyrods. Was planning to leave abunchto the local TU chapter but they seem to be coming unglued.Bill --------------23C49784CA9AB52F06206172 begin: vcardfn: Chris Bogartn: Bogart;Chris org: Shenandoah Rodsadr: 490 Grand View Drive;;;Luray;Virginia;22835;USAemail;internet: cbogart@shentel.nettitle: Makertel;work: (540) 743-7169tel;home: (540) 743-4679 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------23C49784CA9AB52F06206172-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 2 20:42:34 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Feb 1998 21:43:10 -0500 Subject: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Absolutely! That's my home. I would love to help plan a get together with ya! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from lblan@provide.net Mon Feb 2 20:53:54 1998 Subject: Re: Books Etc Sounds like a plan to me, Jerry. No problems here.Larry Blan -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Books Etc Bill, listmembers If you would like to email me the list i would gladly post it on thearchive for you if that's a route you would like to go..the list andfellow rodmakers should consider it an honor to assist any member, ifpossible.The only requirement would be that the monitory dealings should behandled off the list. ANY OBJECTIONS????? Jerry jfoster@gte.net from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 2 21:03:04 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Feb 1998 22:05:16 -0500 Subject: Restoration I would like to get some input on how to judge bamboo integrity. At a recent show a gentleman asked me to take a look at a rod for him. It looks to be a rod perhaps brought home from WWI. The strips themselves look to be of decent quality. Much better than other war rods. The nodes were flat (clearly filed but flat) and for the most part there were only very slight gaps in the splines. Anyhow, the ferrules were plated but in good condition and fit rather well. The finish was poor and the wraps were a step past crap (pardon me). I told him I would be more than happy to strip the rod and refinish it. The gentleman was in his late 70's and has never owned a bamboo rod. He sounded so happy even if the rod could not be fished to soon own a bamboo rod he could tell his friends about. I put the rod together and gave it a few good wrist casts to feel the action. (never mind the male ferrule of the tip section came off and let the tip fly across the room) It doesn't feel half bad but I heard a creak near the grip. I cannot tell whether it came from the grip or the cane. If I thought the cane was strong enough to fish with I would ask him if he wanted to put another grip and reel seat on. Otherwise I will just make it displayable. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to figure this out? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 21:09:40 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? RO>Don,RO> My wife won't let me go to those type of places, unless she iswithRO>me.RO> Two years ago I went to a garage sale and bought ten rods at $50.00each.SRO>had a fit.Untill I resold them at a fly fishing show for $2500.00.Woman jusRO>don't understand that we have to buy these things. RO> My Honey-Do list just keeps getting bigger and bigger. I think she'sRO>tryingRO>to keep me busy,so I can'i go to all those garage sales and fly fishingshow RO> Let me know if there is anything I can help you with. RO> Dave L. I think behind every successful rodmaker is pi$$ed-off wife with a longhoney- do list - the rest of us aren't able to withstand "the look". Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 21:17:57 1998 Subject: RE:Restoration RO>It doesn't feel half bad but I heard a creak nearRO>the grip. I cannot tell whether it came from the grip or the cane.RO>If I thought the cane was strong enough to fish with I would ask himRO>if he wanted to put another grip and reel seat on. Otherwise I willRO>just make it displayable. Does anyone have any thoughts on how toRO>figure this out? RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, I had a loose metal reelseat on a bamboo baitcaster rod (reelseatin between 2 grips) and I bought a dull-tipped syringe at anelectronic's warehouse and injected MEK diluted epoxy through the corkgrips and up under the reelseat. Maybe you could do the same thing? Fill the syringe with the needle off. (can't draw through the small ID) Don Burns from pat3@home.com Mon Feb 2 21:26:32 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA21783 Subject: locating bamboo I am trying to locate some bamboo to make a flyrod. This will be myfirst atempt to make one and I do not know where to get the bamboo. Iwould be very greatful for any help given. Thanks Pat Kelly from d_price@global2000.net Mon Feb 2 21:32:32 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA09496 for; Mon, 2 Feb 1998 22:32:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I was intrigued by the person who wrote in andsuggested that waxing your plane sole wouldgreatly reduce the effort it takes to plane bamboostrips, but like the other person who wrote in, Iwondered about wax getting on the bamboo, andmaking it so the glue would not stick. So I did alittle experiment. I waxed one plane and left myother plane alone. I planed four strips on the sides,two with the waxed plane, and two with the unwaxedplane. I then glued the paired strips with polyurethaneglue. On both pairs of strips the bamboo broke beforethe glue let go, so I would say there is no contaminationof wax on the bamboo, or at least not enough to makea difference. Or perhaps the polyurethane glue actslike a solvent and dissolves away the wax. In any case, the effort to plane strips is dramaticallyreduced. The plane just glides over the strips and forsome reason I can set the blade shallower and takethinner shavings than before. I am definitely going tobe waxing my plane sole from now on. Next experiment - Wax the blade edge?...... Darryl Hayashida I'm glad someone tried it,and glad to hear of the successfull gluing.The first thing a rokie in the wood shops that I've worked in learned,was how to wax every machine working surface in the shop!.I hate to usetool that didn't have it and it makes all the difference in the world.Dave Price from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 2 21:34:35 1998 Subject: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing RO>Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (orany 9'6"RO>Granger for that matter)? Thanks. RO>--Rich Rich, I've got a 9' W&M Granger Deluxe if that will help at all. Don from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Feb 2 21:48:01 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Restoration Jon;WWI or WWII??? Is the rod a combination Fly/Bait Cast? Is the gripremovable ( can you pull it off the butt section and turn it around to makea bait casting rod)? If so malybe the grip ferrule is loose. If the rodwas made in Japan in the early 1950's any of the really gaudy spiral wrapsbetween guides are not there as intermediate wraps, they hide some reallyugly mistakes. Tell me more. Any delaminations, cane fractures, crackedferrules, etc? ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: RestorationDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:03 PM I would like to get some input on how to judge bamboo integrity. At a recent show a gentleman asked me to take a look at a rod for him. It looks to be a rod perhaps brought home from WWI. The strips themselves look to be of decent quality. Much better than other war rods. The nodes were flat (clearly filed but flat) and for the most part there were only very slight gaps in the splines. Anyhow, the ferrules were plated but in good condition and fit rather well. The finish was poor and the wraps were a step past crap (pardon me). I told him I would be more than happy to strip the rod and refinish it. The gentleman was in his late 70's and has never owned a bamboo rod. He sounded so happy even if the rod could not be fished to soon own a bamboo rod he could tell his friends about. I put the rod together and gave it a few good wrist casts to feel the action. (never mind the male ferrule of the tip section came off and let the tip fly across the room) It doesn't feel half bad but I heard a creak near the grip. I cannot tell whether it came from the grip or the cane. If I thought the cane was strong enough to fish with I would ask him if he wanted to put another grip and reel seat on. Otherwise I will just make it displayable. Does anyone have any thoughts on how to figure this out? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Feb 2 21:51:08 1998 beforged)) Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off What type of wax? Furniture, or candle?George ----------From: David Price Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax OffDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 11:32 PM SalarFly@aol.com wrote: I was intrigued by the person who wrote in andsuggested that waxing your plane sole wouldgreatly reduce the effort it takes to plane bamboostrips, but like the other person who wrote in, Iwondered about wax getting on the bamboo, andmaking it so the glue would not stick. So I did alittle experiment. I waxed one plane and left myother plane alone. I planed four strips on the sides,two with the waxed plane, and two with the unwaxedplane. I then glued the paired strips with polyurethaneglue. On both pairs of strips the bamboo broke beforethe glue let go, so I would say there is no contaminationof wax on the bamboo, or at least not enough to makea difference. Or perhaps the polyurethane glue actslike a solvent and dissolves away the wax. In any case, the effort to plane strips is dramaticallyreduced. The plane just glides over the strips and forsome reason I can set the blade shallower and takethinner shavings than before. I am definitely going tobe waxing my plane sole from now on. Next experiment - Wax the blade edge?...... Darryl Hayashida I'm glad someone tried it,and glad to hear of the successfull gluing.The first thing a rokie in the wood shops that I've worked in learned,was how to wax every machine working surface in the shop!.I hate to usetool that didn't have it and it makes all the difference in the world.Dave Price from wbinn@michiana.org Mon Feb 2 21:55:02 1998 freenet.michiana.org (8.8.2/8.7.3(CICNet)) with ESMTP id WAA22499 for Subject: Re: Herter's rod ?s Concerning the question about the Herters rod. I recently refinished an 8'Herters RH8C 2 pc rod of the description in question. It was in terribleshape when I bought it but it had good quality ferrules and a nice action.Besides, it's not often I run across a light action 2 pc rod in anycondition. It had the rather unusual handle/reelseat as described but had avarnished finish. The wraps were in terrible shape and while they weren'tCor D thread, they were red nylon and had unusual 4 turn black trim bandsonboth ends of each red wrap. The end of the reel seat had a black rubberbutton somewhat typical of the ones Hardy used sometimes. I was alsocurious about this rods origin and later I found a similar one listed inThe Classic listing at $280. (It had 2 tips and a different number thanmine) The answer to my question, and possibly yours, came when I found a1966 Herters catalog in an antique mall. It listed two cane rods that year,one of which was the RH8C. And while the catalog was in black and whitethedrawing for the rod clearly showed the rubber button butt and guide wrapswith 2 trim bands per.Hope this helps. slow action.Winston Binney from madcliff@mssl.uswest.net Mon Feb 2 22:02:34 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with SMTP id VAA14435 for Subject: Re: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (or any9'6"Granger for that matter)? Thanks. --Rich The following guide spacings come from a 9 1/2-foot Goodwin Granger Denver Special, one of the older models from the 20s before the Special was introduced. The problem is that the tip on this rod is 2 1/4 inches short. I assume that it was broken at the tip end rather than the butt end, but 7" seems quite a ways down for the first guide. 7"13 3/821 1/428 5/836 3/8 (bottom of tip section)40 3/8 (top of mid section)5061 1/274 1/483 1/4 Hope this helps. Matt Clifford from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 2 22:49:53 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Feb 1998 23:52:12 -0500 Subject: Re: Japaning? While I do not classify as a successful rod maker...I would just like to point out I don't have a pi&^ed off wife...I have a Pi@#ed off girlfriend though, with a pretty long "you-better-do-if-you-want-some-loven" list. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 2 22:51:12 1998 Subject: Where am I? Dear Listmeister Did I get dropped? I sent in a question re. Herters rods and got a replyoff- list, but I never saw it (or anything else) come up today. If I should resubmit or resubscribe or something, please let me know. Thanks,Davy from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Feb 2 22:54:46 1998 Subject: Re: Cane tools =_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0 ----------From: steve Subject: Re: Cane toolsDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:17 PM Im In British Columbia, But still ontario is better then the states forthe$ exchange.Thanx for you help and look forward from hearing from you.Steve-----Original Message-----From: DrBamboo@aol.com Date: February 2, 1998 6:50 AMSubject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0 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 ------=_NextPart_000_01BD3035.658ECFE0-- from Skbump@aol.com Mon Feb 2 23:22:59 1998 Subject: Unsubscribe Shannon K. Bump unscribe Shannon K. Bump from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 3 00:47:07 1998 Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off In a message dated 2/2/98 6:43:34 PM Pacific Standard Time,jlintvet@clarityconnect.com writes: Just curious...what type of wax did you use or would you suggest? What type of wax? Furniture, or candle? I used the wax I recently posted about for waxing my rods. Citrus Shield carnuba wax by Howard Products. It's afurniture wax. Darryl Hayashida from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 3 01:44:18 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA10425 Subject: Re: Herter's rod ?s Sounds like you have one of Herter's "Grand Deluxe Imported St. Albans"split bamboo fly rods. In all the Herter's catalogs I've seen (late '60'sthru'70's) they were ONLY offered fully assembled. from your description, itsounds like stock # RH8C 8'-2pc 4-3/8oz for 5- 6wt. It sold for $32.67in1973. If you wanted an extra tip you had to add $9.47. I see that youmis-took the "DuPont neoprene rubber button on (the) end (of the reel seat) toprotectthe rod from damage" for cheap plastic. You'd probably also be pleased toknow that the ferrules "are all made of solid German silver". You maywishto study the rod closely as "the specifications on Herter's St. AlbansGrandDeluxe Split Bamboo Fly Rods have been worked out to perfection duringmany a lifetime of study." Enjoy,George Bourke Quotations from the 1972-3 Herter's catalog. The rod (2 models available)gets a whole page! ----------From: Ragnarig@aol.com Subject: Herter's rod ?sDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 1:46 PM Hi Gang! Haven't been around for a while, but I'm back and I've got a littlepuzzle Ihope somebody can help me figure out. I've recently picked up a very nice little 2-pc 8-ft rod with two tips,newcondition and a very fine caster with 4-5 TT or WF-5 line. It has aninkedinscription saying "Herter's Inc., RH8C" and a gold decal next to thehook-keeper with "MADE IN ENGLAND" Color is a uniform dark-honey, the nodes are carefully staggered and thetaperis para- similar to the Thramer in the Archive. The tips appear to bewet-and-dry and the ferrules are Super Z. Now things start to get spooky: the black-tipped red windings are aboutsizeD; the DL reel seat is very cheap aluminum with a big plastic knob at thebutt; the reverse half-Wells grip is low-grade cork, filled with putty,andabout an inch longer than any I've ever seen; the winding check is aMontague-looking stamping, and such things as guide feet and general finishindicategreat haste and/or miserly practice. My theory is that it was made by Herter's from an English blank, butothershave suggested it was a kit, assembled and finished by a customer. Isanyonefamiliar with Herters' practices and suppliers. Any guess as to whomadethe> blank? I'll guess about early '70s for the date, but who knows? I'd like to just strip it down to the blank and re-do the whole thingwith thehigh-grade fittings it deserves, but I'm having too much fun fishing itinthis spectacular El Nino weather! Recommending same to all of you,Davy from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 3 02:38:51 1998 Subject: stress curves revisted Darryl;Thanks for re-posting you previous explanation of stress curves. Mybrowsermust have crashed before I read that in the archives, I finally gotnetscape so now I can go back and read everything I missed before. Thanksto you and Wayne, I think I'm finally beginning to get a clue as to whatwhat the differences in curves might mean to rod action.Now it seemsthat Ionly have to build a couple dozen rods, or maybe a couple hundred , andI'll have it all figured out.I hope the side jobs keep coming in!John Channer from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue Feb 3 06:38:58 1998 (AST) 3 Feb 98 07:44:03 -0500 0500 3 Feb 98 07:43:25 -0500 Subject: Re: Cane tools Are any of your friends in the Ottawa area?-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Cane tools ----------From: steve Subject: Re: Cane toolsDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 3:17 PM Im In British Columbia, But still ontario is better then the states forthe$ exchange.Thanx for you help and look forward from hearing from you.Steve-----Original Message-----From: DrBamboo@aol.com Date: February 2, 1998 6:50 AMSubject: Re: Cane tools Steve;I've got friends in Ontario who can help you.Where are you?GEM from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Feb 3 09:31:01 1998 Subject: Re: stress curves revisted Rather than build a few hundred, try to cast and measure aas many rods asyoucan find. Sonn you'll feel pretty confidant when you get a feel for how arodwill graph just by casting it. Rob from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 10:15:46 1998 Subject: Pacific Bay guides All, I bought some black PacBay snake guides the other day at BobMArriott's, thye told me that PacBay has changed the shape of theguides. I don't think their finish has changed, just the shape. Old guide shape (sorry for ascii): --/\/-- new shape: --/|/-- The top of the loop is now 90 deg to the rod shaft vs at an angle. FYI, Don Burns from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 3 14:23:22 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides Pac Bay has a line of Titanium Carbide guides which have a beautiful darkfinish andflat feet They're pricey but are worth it.Roughly 2.75/ snake and 3 /tiptop. from birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu Tue Feb 3 16:07:05 1998 (echem16392.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu ka011086 for ; Tue, 3 Feb 1998 17:06:53 -0500 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides Can anyone give me a good source for Pac Bay guides. Seymour Birnbaumsxb33@po.cwru.edu DrBamboo@aol.com wrote: Pac Bay has a line of Titanium Carbide guides which have a beautifuldarkfinish andflat feet They're pricey but are worth it.Roughly 2.75/ snake and 3/tiptop. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 3 16:49:57 1998 0700 Subject: Impregnation Guys, Several weeks ago someone wrote in about impregnating cane. I have since received a copy of "Wes Jordan - Profile of a Cane Builder"and his patent is located in the book. Times/resins/technique is all there. Further, a section of the "Best of the Planning Form" deals withimpregnation. Another note: See some concern about moisture entering the rod. WesJordan's impregnation technique required rods to be soaked in water/resinsolution for days @ a time. He then cooked the cane @ 285F for severalhours to remove the water. So I wonder if the hype about moisture is suchan issue. Mind you, I live in a dry climate so perhaps I just haven't seenthe results. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 3 16:50:02 1998 0700 Subject: Perfection snake guides Guys, The last 2 orders of guides model SSGC showed a lot less chroming thanprevious guides I've used over the years. The new ones are nearly a mattfinish suggesting very little chrome or none @ all. Anyone else noticethis? Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 17:35:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Wax On - Wax Off What if you waxed the sole of your plane with auto wax instead of afurnituretype wax or candle wax? Bret from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 3 17:46:49 1998 Subject: perfection guides Don; I'm glad someone else noticed that too, I thought the last batch of guidesI got seemed a little dull, I hope they don't rust.Also, to Rob, I'ld loveto cast every different rod ever made, but Durango, Co. might as well bethe moon as far as cane rods go. I fish the San Juan at least twice a monthand have done so for three years and I have only seen one other personwitha cane rod and it was a 9' H-I that cast like a pool cue. I have let quitea few graphite types cast my Garrison taper 8' 5wt and most of them werequite complimentary. I keep hoping to run into people with cane rods, butso far to no avail.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 17:47:52 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides RO>Can anyone give me a good source for Pac Bay guides. RO>Seymour BirnbaumRO>sxb33@po.cwru.edu Seymour, Try Bob Marriott's: Phone (800) 535-6633 or (714) 525-1827 FAX -- 5783 orwww.bobmarriotts.com (online ordering I think) Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 17:49:12 1998 Subject: honey do list I tell you guys I must be the luckiest guy here because my wife never, Imeannever stops me from doing this kind of stuff. She always tells mewhatever iwant to buy just do it. we went to an antique shop the other day and Ibought4 old planes and some other stuff for this hobby and she only smiled. Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 17:49:55 1998 Subject: Perfection snake guides RO>Guys, RO>The last 2 orders of guides model SSGC showed a lot less chromingthanRO>previous guides I've used over the years. The new ones are nearly amattRO>finish suggesting very little chrome or none @ all. Anyone else noticethis? RO>Don Don, I tried to order Perfection guides from Angler's Workshop last year, butthey said they couldn't get them in due to Perfection's problems ingetting their new plating methods worked out. Sounds like you've gotsome new type guides. Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 18:05:32 1998 Subject: Rod builders in Boise I was wondering if any1 is located in Boise. If so can you answer me offgroup so as not to take up this space. Thanx.Bret from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Feb 3 18:35:55 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides As I understand from my supplier, Perfection now calls the matte finish"hardchrome" and I think that is the only silver guide available. I hope this mayshed a little light. Rob from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 3 18:54:16 1998 Subject: RE:honey do list RO>I tell you guys I must be the luckiest guy here because my wife never, ImeaRO>never stops me from doing this kind of stuff. She always tells mewhateverRO>want to buy just do it. we went to an antique shop the other day and IbougRO>4 old planes and some other stuff for this hobby and she only smiled.RO>Bret Alright, I'll bite - what's the punch line? Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 3 19:27:10 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Cane tools OK tell me why I can't retrive any of JFosters pages on the inter-net.Bret from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 3 20:45:00 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Jon - You can build rods later in life. Having gone to IU in the '70's(and yes, Bob Knight is a god), I can honestly say that I never letfishing come between me and a girlfriend. There was that one time Igot up too early to go deer hunting, though. . . . . But enough about me. Where are your priorities, man!?! Brian Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 3 20:49:45 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides George - Wayne had some of these the other day, and I was impressed by the"Stealth bomber" look. Now I just have to figure out how to oxidize NSto the same tone for ferrules and seats. Brian from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 3 21:52:04 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides Brian;Just use the Jim Payne bluing solution and cover it with Krylon Acrylicwith U.V.blocker,Works like a charm.George from richjez@enteract.com Tue Feb 3 22:01:13 1998 0000 (207.229.149.243) Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off A lot of auto waxes have abrasives in them to remove oxdized paint. I sawone neighboe take the paint off his car one summer waxing every weekwith apower buffer. There is various degrees of the abrasiveness of auto wax. Iimangine there might be some without any abrasives.It doesn't seem like those abrasives that would help your plane.Rich Jezioro At 06:32 PM 2/3/98 EST, you wrote:What if you waxed the sole of your plane with auto wax instead of afurnituretype wax or candle wax? Bret from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 3 22:16:53 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 3Feb 1998 23:18:05 -0500 Subject: Final prep After you sand down your blank and are ready to dip it what is you last step before the varnish goes on? Wayne reccomends a light coat of tung oil, after dry, a rub down of turpentine, then the tube. Any comments? Would denatured alcohol have a different effect than turpentine? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277- 9781 from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Feb 3 22:19:35 1998 Subject: Re: honey do list In a message dated 98-02-03 19:57:38 EST, you write: Be patient, Don. Sometimes it just takes a little while to get hermedicationadjusted properly, that's all. Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 3 23:27:09 1998 Subject: Re: Stress Curves Revisited Thanks for the posting on stress curves-I believe I understand them alittlebetter but I can read a graph of thickness vs. length with more accurateprediction-probably just what I've gotten used to.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 3 23:29:13 1998 Subject: Re: Re: new subject - Rod makers gathering - south? Jon,I believe Chris Bogart is trying to get an informal get togethersometimein May--it might not fit your college schedule but it would be at his shoponthe Shenandoah R. near Luray-details later.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 3 23:37:49 1998 Subject: Re: Books Etc Bill,I'm sorry to hear your T.U. chapter is coming unglued! :-)Hank. from jstickle@erols.com Wed Feb 4 04:23:46 1998 Subject: Pacific Bay Guides Merrick Tackle I was told yesterday now handles the titanium platedguides. Problem is they only sell wholesale. I think you can also getthem from Jann's Netcraft. Their 1998 catalog shows a gunsmoke guide so. Last year Merrick Tackle sold solid titanium fly guides at $4.25 eachbut I'm told they don't handle them anymore. I'm sort of bummed becausethey are much lighter than regular stainless and the plated stainless. Jann's Netcraft's number is 800-638-2723 from sonners2@bellsouth.net Wed Feb 4 06:04:47 1998 Subject: ROD LABOR PRICE LIST I am new to repair rod repairs for commercial purposes. I am wondering ifanyone has a labor price list in which they could share with me. Or ifsomeone could offer me advice I would appreciate it. Thanks Anthony from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 08:35:14 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA00312 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 09:35:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Wax On - Wax Off Rich Jezioro wrote: A lot of auto waxes have abrasives in them to remove oxdized paint. Isawone neighboe take the paint off his car one summer waxing every weekwith apower buffer. There is various degrees of the abrasiveness of auto wax. Iimangine there might be some without any abrasives.It doesn't seem like those abrasives that would help your plane.Rich Jezioro At 06:32 PM 2/3/98 EST, you wrote:What if you waxed the sole of your plane with auto wax instead of afurnituretype wax or candle wax?Bret I use butchers wax (home-depot may have it and people who make cabinetfinishes have it)funny thing about abrasives is I apply it with ascotch- brite pad and over time it smooths the surface to beslicker.Have been doing this on some tools for twenty years and dosn'tseem too alter the flatness. Just my .02 worth.Dave Price from tball@mail.portup.com Wed Feb 4 09:28:10 1998 Subject: Re: Pacific Bay guides You might also try Hook & Hackle at their Email cite Bob@hookhack.comHave done business for a number of years and they are good to work with.Tom in Trout Lake from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Feb 4 14:01:36 1998 Subject: Re:Green Cane To any and all who can help,I just got some bamboo and for the first time, it's pretty green. Will myflaming cover for this, should I wait when (or if, this is Feb. in Chicago)and set them out in the sun? I have started a check split and knocked outtheinternal dams. if I do blonde will this green color screw up the color, orwill the heat treating clear it up?Thanks Rob from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 4 15:27:20 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA16468 for Subject: First try I've been lurking for a week or two and have enjoyed the give and take. I'vealso tried several times to access the archives at Bruce Conner's site andkeep receiving the message that they're not available. Am I doingsomethingwrong? I can't be typing the URL wrong, I'm clicking HIS button!I'm thinking of getting my planes all dull again after a hiatus of about 10years. You guys are a real breath of fresh air. Back when I blew out myshoulder planing and decided to take a break, it was read a book or botherHoagy Carmichael with a phone call if you needed to improve some facet ofyour output. At that time I had a pizza-man who thought I was nuts but letme use his oven on an occasional Sun AM to bake my blanks (provided Ineverdivulge to ANYONE that he put anything like THAT where the FOOD went)! Icould never quite convince him that it was no different from making alittleChinese food on the sly.Thanks for the enjoyment; I'll probably wait awhile more before I startputting any "two-centses" worth in among you guys. I WOULD appreciate itifanyone can trouble-shoot my unsuccessful attempts at the archives.Art from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 4 15:45:09 1998 Subject: RE:First try RO>Thanks for the enjoyment; I'll probably wait awhile more before I startRO>putting any "two-centses" worth in among you guys. I WOULDappreciate it ifRO>anyone can trouble-shoot my unsuccessful attempts at the archives.RO>Art Art, Welcome and try looking at the archives on Jerry Foster's URL: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Don Burns from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 4 16:16:16 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 4Feb 1998 17:17:04 +0000 Subject: Ferrule Replacement I seemed to have ruined a male ferrule when I took it off. It appears to be a standard H&I male ferrule section. The total length is 1 3/4", the seating length is 1" and the outside diameter of the seating area is .292 Anyone have something similar they could part with or know where I can find inexpensive ferrules. The rod is not need. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 16:17:48 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id RAA26546 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:17:44 -0500 Subject: Re: Green Cane Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: To any and all who can help,I just got some bamboo and for the first time, it's pretty green. Will myflaming cover for this, should I wait when (or if, this is Feb. in Chicago)and set them out in the sun? I have started a check split and knocked outtheinternal dams. if I do blonde will this green color screw up the color, orwill the heat treating clear it up?Thanks Rob Gee and I was just going to order cane myself, but now I'm scared agian!I'l never get started(can't afford to get a bum batch at the moment)!!.Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 16:28:17 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id RAA27185 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 17:28:14 -0500 Subject: Cane Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks from penr0295@uidaho.edu Wed Feb 4 16:37:29 1998 process doing-bs Subject: Trout Fly Exhibit "An International Exhibition: The Art of the Trout Fly" is an exhibitionthat is currently being put together as a collaborative effort between theUniversity of Idaho's Prichard Gallery of Art in Moscow, Idaho, and theBoulder Museum for Contemporary Art in Boulder, Colorado. The show's organizers are Gallery Director Gail Siegel (Univ. of Idaho),Jim Palmersheim (Univ. of Idaho), and Ken Iwamasa (Univ. Of Colorado,Boulder). The exhibition itself is interested in "contemporary artwork,and will consider any medium and any aspect of fly fishing". The workmay be of a traditional nature, or may expand beyond this. Theexhibition also expects to include a "collateral lecture series,demonstrations, and workshops". The show itself is scheduled to occurconcurrently at both the Prichard Gallery in Idaho, and the Boulder Museum 1999. As a good friend of two of the individuals who are responsible fororganizing this show, they have asked me to help them in their task ofcompiling a list of the names and addresses of International fly tyers,artists, etc. who we can contact in order to see if they might beinterested in submitting work that would be considered for inclusion inthis exhibition (submissions would generally be in the form of slides orphotographs). We are particularly interested in acquiring the names andaddresses (and e-mails, if possible) of more non-North American tyers atthis point, but are not finalized with our mailing list for anygeographical region yet. Consequently, if you know of artists, tyers, or others that we should beaware of, I would appreciate it if you would submit to me off-list theirname, address, and any other contact information you may have (phone,e-mail, etc.) Please also include a brief description of the individual's Thomas PenroseBend, OR from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 4 16:40:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA24293 for Subject: RE:First try At 01:44 PM 2/4/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>Thanks for the enjoyment; I'll probably wait awhile more before IstartRO>putting any "two-centses" worth in among you guys. I WOULDappreciate it ifRO>anyone can trouble-shoot my unsuccessful attempts at the archives.RO>Art Art, Welcome and try looking at the archives on Jerry Foster's URL: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Don Burns Don,Thanks so much for the almost instantaneous response (!). I was able togetthem on the first try and have found a source of reading pleasure that'llprobably suck up several weeks of free time.Thanks again,Art from penr0295@uidaho.edu Wed Feb 4 16:48:17 1998 process doing-bs Subject: Re: Trout Fly Exhibit I should also have added that while this exhibition is primarilyinterested in contemporary works done by living artists, there are alsoplans to include historical artifacts as well. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 4 16:56:23 1998 Subject: RE:Ferrule Replacement RO>I seemed to have ruined a male ferrule when I took it off. ItRO>appears to be a standard H&I male ferrule section. The total lengthRO>is 1 3/4", the seating length is 1" and the outside diameter of theRO>seating area is .292 Anyone have something similar they could partRO>with or know where I can find inexpensive ferrules. The rod is notRO>for me. I called anglers but the ferrules are much larger than IRO>need. RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, I pulled out my H-I mid sections and spare ferrules - all my "stuff" isin the 0.280" range. Sorry - can't help ya. Don Burns from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 4 16:57:42 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA25595 for Subject: Re: Cane At 05:28 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks Dave,If you get to NJ a lot why don't you go to the source in Tom's River? That'swhere Demarest's warehouse is. That way you can: pick your own, takehomeactual 12 ft lengths, and get instant gratification. They have a website at: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Call before you go as they might wish you to make an appointment, but thelast time I was there they were extremely pleasant, helpful andcooperative.That was about 10 years ago but unless all the NICE people got firedthey'reprobably still as eager to help!Good luck,Art from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 4 17:42:02 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id SAA31642 for; Wed, 4 Feb 1998 18:41:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Cane Art Port wrote: At 05:28 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks Dave,If you get to NJ a lot why don't you go to the source in Tom's River?That'swhere Demarest's warehouse is. That way you can: pick your own, takehomeactual 12 ft lengths, and get instant gratification. They have a websiteat: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Call before you go as they might wish you to make an appointment, butthelast time I was there they were extremely pleasant, helpful andcooperative.That was about 10 years ago but unless all the NICE people got firedthey'reprobably still as eager to help!Good luck,Art Spoke to them last time I was down there, and they didn't seem to offerthat alternative, it's another 1 1/2 hour from where I go. I'm on theway out the door to go steelheading be back fri!!!!. Dave Price ( the only fishing I do in winter ) from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 4 18:12:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japaning? Brian,I never let a girl friend come between me and flyfishing. Bobby Knight isnota god but IU is awesome in B-ball.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 4 18:31:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Green Cane All the suppliers of cane will take back any you don't think is any good sojump in and buy some Dave.Bret from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 4 18:44:46 1998 Subject: Re: Quad rod Bret, I believe they are covered in the Best of the Planing Form. Youmight want to look there. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Subject: Quad rodDate: Monday, February 02, 1998 8:21 AM Can anyone out there help me to build a quad rod? What do I need as farasforms go etc. , etc.Bret from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 4 19:09:05 1998 with SMTP id AAA16776 for ;Thu, 5 Feb 1998 01:08:23 +0000 withlast message Subject: Re: Cane TAA07612 Art, FYI... The warehouse is in Lakewood now, and they're still nice people. I justordered from them and they're a great bunch! Homey ----------At 05:28 PM 2/4/98 -0800, you wrote:Anybody in upstate N.Y. have a culm or two theyed like to sell???? Iwould like to wait and see how this new batch is that came in,and getsome money together to get a bale of them in the near future. Dave Price (I'm in the Schenectady area but make trips to N.J. andSalmon River alot.)Thanks Dave,If you get to NJ a lot why don't you go to the source in Tom's River? That'swhere Demarest's warehouse is. That way you can: pick your own, takehomeactual 12 ft lengths, and get instant gratification. They have a website at: //ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/frankd/tonkin.htm Call before you go as they might wish you to make an appointment, but thelast time I was there they were extremely pleasant, helpful andcooperative.That was about 10 years ago but unless all the NICE people got firedthey'reprobably still as eager to help!Good luck,Art from EMiller257@aol.com Wed Feb 4 19:26:23 1998 Subject: Re: honey do list I hope you realize just how lucky you are. Most wives moan and groanaboutall the stuff we buy for our hobby but I'd be willing to bet that most of usdont blow our checks in taverns or poker games like we did in our youth.Themoney I spend on fishing gear is a fraction of what I would have spent oncigarets this past 17 years since I quit. Somehow that never getsmentioned.Ed M from ghinde@inconnect.com Wed Feb 4 19:46:17 1998 Subject: Re: RE:Ferrule Replacement Jon;Sorry no luck with that size ferrule here.What have you done about the problem at the grip?George ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: RE:Ferrule ReplacementDate: Wednesday, February 04, 1998 1:55 PM RO>I seemed to have ruined a male ferrule when I took it off. ItRO>appears to be a standard H&I male ferrule section. The total lengthRO>is 1 3/4", the seating length is 1" and the outside diameter of theRO>seating area is .292 Anyone have something similar they could partRO>with or know where I can find inexpensive ferrules. The rod is notRO>for me. I called anglers but the ferrules are much larger than IRO>need. RO> Jon Lintvet Jon, I pulled out my H-I mid sections and spare ferrules - all my "stuff" isin the 0.280" range. Sorry - can't help ya. Don Burns from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 4 22:04:25 1998 Subject: Re: RE:honey do list That smile is about the future-be careful :-)Hank-I never get finished the list- Woolman. from plipton@sunvalley.net Wed Feb 4 23:19:56 1998 (208.14.167.42) Subject: violin finish DrBamboo wrote: Patrick;Maybe you can help.Need to refinish a violin for a friend.Violin shopsareeven more secretive than old rod shops and are hesitant to sell anyvarnish.Trade secrets you know.Would prefer not to use Behlens.Can yourecommend anything? DrBamboo: Contact International Violin Company, Baltimore, MD, 410-542-3535. Manyviolinvarnishes has shellac as one of their compoments. That gives them a shelflifesodon't stock up. Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726- 9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Feb 4 23:40:19 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Replacement Jon I've got some .300 male ferrules, but I'll have to check tomorrow (they areatmy shop) and see if there are any good, complete matching sets. This is atruncated step-down ferrule, nicht wahr? I'll get with you tomorrow off-list. Davy PS. You do understand this'll cost you a beer? from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 5 11:06:08 1998 Subject: Belvoirdale ferrules? All, Anyone ever use the Belvoirdale ferrules? Any good? Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 5 12:08:38 1998 Subject: Re: Re: honey do list Ed M.I quit smoking 25 years ago and I made myself a promise that if I quit forayear (two packs Pall Mall reds a day guy ) that I would by me a LeonardBamboowith the money I would have spent for smokes. Still fish that rod today. Andyes I do realize how lucky I am to have a wife who doesn't nag aboutthings.Never did play poker.Bret from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Feb 5 13:06:23 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA10168 for Subject: Books Hi Chris,Am not getting carried away yet for awhile, I hope. Yes, last year'sone-piece five sider is very nice but did you see Tom cast the whole lineonthis year's two-piece five weight penta? Needing a new challenge, I wanttobuild one of Zimny's fast quads but so far he hasn't given me the taper. Bill from penr0295@uidaho.edu Thu Feb 5 13:48:55 1998 process doing-bs Subject: Trout fly exhibit forward (fwd) Jim Palmersheim sent me the following official announcement regardingtheexhibit I had made a post regarding yesterday. For those who areinterested, this announcement includes additional information. Also, anyindvidual who is interested in being sent an application letter shouldcontact either Jim, Ken, or myself by sending your name and address. Thomas PenroseBend, OR ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Subject: Brief discription/THANKS "Art of the Trout Fly"Art of the Trout Fly, an international exhibition of trout flies and related art objects is scheduled to open simultaneously at the University of Idaho and Boulder Museum of Contemporary Art, Boulder Colorado inJune through August 1999.This exhibition is centered around the late William Cushner fly collection, and will additionally feature the works of more than a hundred regionaland nationally known fly tiers and artists work of other hand-made objectssuch as visual arts, rods and reels. This three month long exhibition serves a platform for a Kid's fishing and educational programs, includes a series of programs for women and serves a platform for the discussion of trout and environmental issues.All international fly tiers are invited to make inquiries.Museum directors or TU chapters interested in having all or partsof this exhibition shown in your area should forward all inquiries toeither: co-curatorKen IwamasaBoulder, CO 80302460-20th St.iwamasa@spot.colorado.edu or co-curatorJim Palmersheim332 North BlaineMoscow, ID 83843jamesp@turbonet.com from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Feb 5 15:25:07 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id VAA07210 for; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 21:25:03 GMT Subject: Re: Green Cane Nodewrrior@aol.com wrote: To any and all who can help,I just got some bamboo and for the first time, it's pretty green. Will myflaming cover for this, should I wait when (or if, this is Feb. in Chicago)and set them out in the sun? I have started a check split and knocked outtheinternal dams. if I do blonde will this green color screw up the color, orwill the heat treating clear it up? Rob The green color is the enamel which you will be removing after youplaneyour strips unless you want to remove it first. To check this out simplyuseyour thumbnail and scratch the very end of a culm. Bryant C. from shane.m.hubbs@vanderbilt.edu Thu Feb 5 16:27:59 1998 with ESMTP id forrodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 5 Feb 1998 16:27:57 CST Subject: Re:help how do I remove myself from the email group? Thanks from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 19:37:17 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THE LOOK. Dave L from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 19:52:56 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides After spending the last 30 years refinishing fire arms. I have done aboutevery kindof plating and finishing there is. The bright chrome you see is calleddecoritivechrome. It is usually plated over nickel and that is plated over copper.Thisis a very good protective finnish. Hard chrome on the other hand is a harder finnishbut usuallynot as protective. Hard chrome is porous. If you look under a microscope,you will see that there are fine cracks in the chrome. Hard chrome is usuallyplateddirectly on the base metal. These hair line cracks will let in moistureandthe basemetal under the hard chrome will rust causing the chrome to flake off,leaving arusty guide or what ever the base metal is. I don't know if Perfection isplatingthe hard chrome directly on the guides or nickel plating them first.Usuallywhenthe metal is nickel plated first, the hard chrome will come out shiny. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 20:05:17 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrule Replacement Jon,Is this male ferrule Nickel Silver or chrome plated brass? I'll lookintomy used treasures and see if I can come up with something Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 5 20:28:05 1998 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale ferrules? The only thing I didn't like about the ferrules I bought from him a fewyearsago, is that they are metric instead of 64s. They are made in England byGraham"s brother. Dave LeClair from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 5 21:14:24 1998 Subject: the look Dave; I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad THE LOOK can't kill, I would havebeen dead about 24 years ago, not to mention every time a package withrodbuiling stuff shows up at our door.My salvation is I don't go to bars orchase womenJohn Channer from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Feb 5 21:35:31 1998 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale ferrules? They are definifely not as nice as Classic Sporting Ent. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 5 21:40:25 1998 Fri, 6 Feb 1998 11:39:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japaning? On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THE LOOK. Dave L except from their mum! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Feb 5 22:23:10 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 5Feb 1998 10:35:52 +0000 Subject: Steelhead I was just wondering if anyone near the Slamon River in NY would like to meet for some fishing Sat. morning? I am getting itchy to get outside and fish. Sorry to take up the bandwidth. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Feb 5 23:30:12 1998 Subject: Re: Drive belt -Just tried something new that worked so well I'm still giddy. For mybindingbelt, I made a spliced loop of Cortland dacron "greenspot" trolling line. Thestuff is braided without a core so it lies flat on the rod. To splice I usedthe splicing needle also made by Cortland (I think). Anyway, there is noknotand the smoothness is a real treat. The idea wasn't totally mine EricHeckmanat Coren's Rod and Reel in Chicago (773-631-5202) where I get most ofmycomponents came up with a solution to my problem. Everything held upgreat andI have 2 rod blanks hanging in the string. Give Eric a call if interested ashe would know the correct line test (I think it's 40#). Rob Hoffhines from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 6 00:43:34 1998 Subject: drive belt Rob;I use a braided line that comes on a plastic reel sold for constructionlay- out or for masons line. I don't even know what it costs, but I'm sureits cheap, my boss gave it to me because he didn't like it, there's about500 yards on a reel and it can't be more than about $5.00. Look for thehollow braided line, I've seen both kinds.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 6 01:30:45 1998 Fri, 6 Feb 1998 15:30:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: the look On Thu, 5 Feb 1998, john channer wrote: Dave; I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad THE LOOK can't kill, I would havebeen dead about 24 years ago, not to mention every time a package withrodbuiling stuff shows up at our door.My salvation is I don't go to bars orchase womenJohn Channer John, you're doing it all wrong. The late Gene Hill described what I saw demonstrated as an art form by my dad when I was a kid.Get your gear sent to a trusted friend's place and have him repack it all in an oversized box with old news papers and dead cockroaches and stuff then have him come over unannounced *while your wife is home*.He gives you this "old junk" he found that is too good to just throw out without seeing if his old friend would like some of it.You have to kind of politely sneer at it and chuck it in the corner and say you'll have a look later. When he's gone and your wife is watching walk over and give it a sort of tyre kickers kick and suggest going out hide it for a few weeks.If the wife is suspecious, just keep the details to the barest minimum and grin a lot.Dad lost the plot once and Mum zeroed in on him like wives sometimes do. Poor dad twisted and jumped about like a hooked steelhead but he paid the price in the end. "The Look" for a few weeks. It was just rotten luck Mum knew what a Weatherby was. I sometimes feel I'm missing out on a lot of the fun as I don't have these probles (so far). Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jefffly@choice.net Fri Feb 6 06:36:05 1998 HAA08991 Subject: Tonkin cane was delivered! I have received my first shipment of cane yesterday. I guess it is goodquality cane. I'm too new to this to know for sure. There are some growersmarks on a couple of culms, a leaf node I noticed and a couple of othersmall abrasions. One piece is big time out of round. I dont know if that isnormal or the first piece I use to practice splitting? The first moments of looking at the cane involved excitement, beingintimidated, back to excitement, and then feeling over whelmed. After anights sleep and re-reading the begining of every book on culms of cane, Ihave calmed down and will be able to start splitting cane this weekend. I'm confident that I can do this! I keep thinking of using split-cane rodsthat I have made with my own hands, fishing wih flies that I've tied, in asmall stream I love to fish with nobody else around. Thanks for everyones help in the past and in the future. Jeff Arnold Hamilton, Ohio from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Feb 6 07:43:14 1998 0700 Subject: Re: [1] Drive belt At 00:30 06/02/98 EST, you wrote:-Just tried something new that worked so well I'm still giddy. For mybindingbelt, I made a spliced loop of Cortland dacron "greenspot" trolling line.Thestuff is braided without a core so it lies flat on the rod. To splice I usedthe splicing needle also made by Cortland (I think). Anyway, there is noknotand the smoothness is a real treat. The idea wasn't totally mine EricHeckmanat Coren's Rod and Reel in Chicago (773-631- 5202) where I get most ofmycomponents came up with a solution to my problem. Everything held upgreatandI have 2 rod blanks hanging in the string. Give Eric a call if interested ashe would know the correct line test (I think it's 40#). Rob Hoffhines Rob, I know that there was a discussion of how to build a belt the same as youdescribe a couple of years ago on Rodmakers. The Best of the PlanningFormbook has the drawings and description of the technique by Gerry Arbeirterof Vancouver BC. I learned it from him about 8 years ago. about 50 lb. dacron. And they don't wear out. I think both Bass Pro and Cabela's sell the heavier dacron weights. Forthose guys on both coasts, the saltwater tackle shops sell the line for BIGfish. regards, Don from harry37@epix.net Fri Feb 6 07:47:45 1998 IAA28742 Subject: Re: Japaning? Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THELOOK. Dave L except from their mum! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/But it doesn't have the same effect! Greg Kuntz from JMennen473@aol.com Fri Feb 6 08:20:31 1998 Subject: Re: Drive belt to all: I am making braided binding belts out of a cotton/polyester cord for theGarrison binder. Very strong and knottless - any one interested e-mailme direct. John M. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 6 14:23:09 1998 Subject: Waxing A few days ago I posted about experimenting on waxing the plane sole.I've also have tried waxing the plane blade, and waxing the planing form.Waxing the plane blade does make a big difference, but it lasts for onlya couple splines. Waxing the blade also reduces the effort to plane, and along with waxing the sole, talk about a hot knife through warm butter!But, like I said, it lasts for only a couple splines. I don't think it's worththe effort to stop and take your plane apart to rewax every couple ofsplines. Waxing your planing form helps in making the effects of waxingyour plane sole last longer. Another plus with waxing your planing formis it should reduce the rusting of your forms when you are not using it. Darryl Hayashida from jczimny@dol.net Fri Feb 6 14:34:30 1998 Subject: YLI Anyone know the phone and address of the YLI Company?John zimny from DrBamboo@aol.com Fri Feb 6 15:00:18 1998 Subject: Re: YLI John;They moved from Utah to South Carolina.Nothin could be finah. Phone #800-854-1932. GEM from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 6 15:13:15 1998 Subject: RE:YLI RO>Anyone know the phone and address of the YLI Company?RO>John zimny YLI Thread Corp.P.O. Box 109Provo, UT 84603-1932(800) 854-1932 Angler's Workshop sells the YLI thread as their own Angler's brand and Iwould think that you could order in smaller quanities too. (360)225-9445 from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Feb 6 15:39:11 1998 ; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:26:29 +1300 Subject: Re: Japaning? At 08:48 AM 6/02/98 -0500, you wrote:Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 5 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: THE LOOK!!! YES. THE LOOK!! Unmarried men don't know about THELOOK. Dave L except from their mum! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/.WOW did I get .....THE LOOK .....today when I was to busy playing with thenewly arrived Snakemaker from Dave .. while the cows had got out andwere inthe garden chewing the roses .. Those experienced with THE LOOK , and not smart enough to have carriedTony's recommended avoidence measures , will know that it can be gradedbetween C- and A+ , a little like an old rod . This was a grade A+ ... LOOK ... once seen never forgotten .. iank Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Feb 6 16:04:25 1998 (1.37.109.15/16.2) id AA209212503; Fri, 6 Feb 1998 14:01:43 -0800 Subject: Magazine Has anyone received a copy of the Bamboo Flyrod Magazine or heard anymore updates since Wayne's general memo passed along on Jan. 7th? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jtien@ptdcs2.intel.com Fri Feb 6 16:20:43 1998 AA16222(5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 6 Feb 199814:20:39-0800 Subject: my rod refinishing project and winding check Hi,First off, I's like to thank all they have emailed me and offeredsuggestionson the type of finish I should use on the rod. The information is greatly appreciated. Now I have a question on winding checks.... 1. Normal winding checks available on the market are circular in shape;how isthat usually used on a hex rod? Do I have to shape the Ni-silver in somewayto fit the blank? 2. I recalled there was a discussion a while about hex winding checks andhow tomake them. Howver, I've neglected to save those messages. Can some kindsoul repost the instructions or point me to an archive for those recentmessages? Thanks in advance. Joe from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 6 16:40:03 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine No word yet for me. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: MagazineDate: Friday, February 06, 1998 2:04 PM Has anyone received a copy of the Bamboo Flyrod Magazine or heard anymore updates since Wayne's general memo passed along on Jan. 7th? Thanks,Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Feb 6 17:29:45 1998 Subject: Re: [1] Drive belt I made a modification of Garrison's binder based on Bob Crompton'sbinder, but not just like it. After fiddling around with it it worksgreat. The belt I'm currently using is 1/8" space age stuff that yousplice by melting the ends together with a soldering iron. It worksgreat for bigger diameter sections, but not so well for the skinny endsof tips. I'm going to play with the length of the belt, but may trydacron for tips next time. Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 6 18:14:15 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine I talked to Mark Metcalf on wednesday of this week and the magazines areatthe postoffice to be delivered. You should see it in your mailbox late nextweek or early the following.Bret from flyfisher@rhco.com Fri Feb 6 18:26:50 1998 19:26:14 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: test message from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:10:53 1998 Subject: Re: the look John,I'm with you. I don't do bars or chase women.The only thing I do isfish andbuy my toys ( and work ). And as you said. If THE LOOK could kill, i'd beendead many years ago. Lukely, they get over it. Dave from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:20:25 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Tony,You've got a point there. My mum could give some looks that couldkill. Dave LeClair from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:24:00 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? When she gives me The Look , if it lasts more than one day. It's like themovie" The Night of the Living Dead ". I go out in my shop and stay there. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:31:34 1998 Subject: Re: YLI John,YLI CorporationP.O. Box 109Provo, ut 84603-01091-800-854-1932 1-801-377-3900 My latest order came from: YLI Corporation161 W. Main St.Rock Hill, SC 29730 PH. 803-985-3100FAX-803-985-3106 Hope this helps- Dave LeClair from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Feb 6 19:34:56 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Waxing SalarFly@aol.com wrote: A few days ago I posted about experimenting on waxing the plane sole.Big Snip from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:37:21 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Ian,I hope you've got a shop to hide in for a while. It sounds like shewillnot want to see your face for a while. Better keep those cows in check. Dave LeClair from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Feb 6 19:41:06 1998 (AIX4.2/UCB8.7/8.7) with SMTP id UAA51924 for ; Fri,6 Feb 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Hmmm, mailing out product before invoices arrive???Anyone receive a bill yet?Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/a.htm Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: I talked to Mark Metcalf on wednesday of this week and the magazinesare atthe postoffice to be delivered. You should see it in your mailbox late nextweek or early the following.Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:41:28 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Bret,When you get yours, could you e-mail me the info to subscribe to themag. Thanks, Dave LeClair from Canerods@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:56:26 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine In a message dated 98-02-06 20:43:52 EST, you write: Nope. Don B. from Canerods@aol.com Fri Feb 6 19:56:49 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine In a message dated 98-02-06 20:44:02 EST, you write: Dave, Do it on their web site - you got the url? Don B. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:16:05 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Don,I don't have there url. Could you give it to me? Thanks, Dave L. from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 6 20:30:06 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/index2.html ----------From: LECLAIR123@aol.com Subject: Re: MagazineDate: Friday, February 06, 1998 6:14 PM Don,I don't have there url. Could you give it to me? Thanks, Dave L. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 6 20:32:45 1998 Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:32:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japaning? On Fri, 6 Feb 1998 LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: When she gives me The Look , if it lasts more than one day. It's like themovie" The Night of the Living Dead ". I go out in my shop and stay there. Dave L. It's been going on for years. Imagine what Mr caveman got from Mrs caveman when he traded the hindquarter of (megafauna of your choice) for that neat new fangled clovis point some old guy in the cave down the valley just started chipping out. I wonder if he ever used the point or just hung it up on the wall? ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 6 20:35:39 1998 Sat, 7 Feb 1998 10:35:32 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japaning? On Sat, 7 Feb 1998, Ian Kearney wrote:.WOW did I get .....THE LOOK .....today when I was to busy playing with thenewly arrived Snakemaker from Dave .. while the cows had got out andwere inthe garden chewing the roses .. Those experienced with THE LOOK , and not smart enough to have carriedTony's recommended avoidence measures , will know that it can begradedbetween C- and A+ , a little like an old rod . This was a grade A+ ... LOOK ... once seen never forgotten .. At least they didn't make it to the living room!!! If that'd happened it'd have been all over red rover:-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:40:39 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Don, Thanks alot. I'll check it out. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:46:23 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? At least Mr. Caveman could club his wife for giving him the Look. Nowdays,allwe have to do is think of it and she will have you arrested. Boy, what apredicament we got our selves into.Life sure was alot easyer when I was single,livinghomewith mum and pop. What ya gonna do. Dave L. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:55:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Magazine Davce, will do I also have his phone# (ah caller ID) if you want to call him.bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 6 20:58:02 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Magazine Mark said the invoices are on the way also. like most magazines youususllyreceive the mag b4 the invoice.bret from harsha@aros.net Fri Feb 6 21:04:37 1998 20:04:32 Subject: Re: Japaning? LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: When she gives me The Look , if it lasts more than one day. It's like themovie" The Night of the Living Dead ". I go out in my shop and stay there. Dave L. I've been divorced since 1979. Forgotten what the "LOOK" looks like. Iguess being an ugly old 54 year old bachelor has it's advantages!!!!!! Mike from wfmack@evansville.net Sat Feb 7 00:34:14 1998 (1568 bytes) by world.evansville.netvia sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) ()(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: Heating Nodeless. Onis Cogburn wrote: I am curious how you nodeless rod builders are heat treating thecane. Up until now I have been putting the split pieces on a cookiesheet. However, I do not like the results. The short sections bowand I would like to avoid this result if possible. I kind of like heat treating before splitting but I tried splitting first.I bundled the splits in bunches of six and bound them using an old homadebobbin and some quilting thread. The idea was to let the heat do some ofthe straightning. It worked, they came out straight. If you are heatinghigh temp for a short period of time, splitting first would probably givethe most uniform temperature distribution but if you are heating at aslowenough rate for the bamboo temperature to equalize, I prefer heatingbeforesplitting. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.comCraig--What time and temp did you use on your nodeless bundles? Thanks. Bill from dragnfly@uniserve.com Sat Feb 7 03:32:51 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Yes please email me the info as well,Thanxsteve-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Magazine Bret,When you get yours, could you e-mail me the info to subscribe tothemag. Thanks, Dave LeClair from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Feb 7 06:41:17 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Magazine Steve,There is a web page and I'm sure someone will put up the address heresoonthat is how i subscribed. If not I will e-mail you the info.Bret from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Feb 7 06:56:13 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id NAA20213 for; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 13:03:53 GMT Subject: Re: the look At 19:04 05/02/98, you wrote:Dave; I don't know about you, but I'm sure glad THE LOOK can't kill, I would havebeen dead about 24 years ago, not to mention every time a package withrodbuiling stuff shows up at our door.My salvation is I don't go to bars orchase womenJohn Channer Really sorry to hear that John. I can thoroughly recommend both. JC from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 7 07:29:39 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides At 20:47 05/02/98 EST, you wrote:After spending the last 30 years refinishing fire arms. I have done aboutevery kindof plating and finishing there is. The bright chrome you see is calleddecoritivechrome. It is usually plated over nickel and that is plated over copper. Dave, from what I've been told the Perfection SSGC guides are hard chromeplatedover stainless. They sure are bright though. Very unlike the ones Ireceived lately. Am concerned about the quality of the later ones. Havewrote to Perfection for an explanation of what's going on. Let the listknow when I get the result. I know from previous experience that some snake guides sold have nochromeor other hardened finish @ all. They last poorly. I got a bunch about 25years ago - figured I had a deal - they were about 1/2 the cost of thePerfection guides. Well the "cheapies" lasted about a year and then theyhad groves in them. Just spooked that the "new" Perfection guides arehistory repeated. regards, Don from sonners2@bellsouth.net Sat Feb 7 09:29:03 1998 Subject: help me please I am starting a home based business building and repairng fishing rods ofall types.I was wanting to put together a labor price list so that I could share itwith my customers. My problem is not knowing what to charge for certainitems. If you could help me or know of a list I would appreciate it. Thank you My e-mail address is sonners2@bellsouth.net Anthony from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 7 09:56:47 1998 Subject: web George (GEM) have you got your web site up yet? jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 7 10:24:00 1998 Subject: Re: NS source assistance Can Nickle Silver wire be hardened enough to use for guides? if so,whats the process. jerry from tedgodfreys@erols.com Sat Feb 7 10:36:34 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Perfection snake guides I know from previous experience that some snake guides sold have nochromeor other hardened finish @ all. They last poorly. I got a bunch about 25years ago - figured I had a deal - they were about 1/2 the cost of thePerfection guides. Well the "cheapies" lasted about a year and then theyhad groves in them. Just spooked that the "new" Perfection guides arehistory repeated. regards, Don, I have been "using" perfection for the last year or so and have gottonvarious sizes from various vendors around the country - many differentvariations of black, but all very hard when I try to file the feet - boththe surface chrome and the base metal have been tough materialespeciallythe chrome. Have you tried fileing the feet or simply daring to run aswiss file over any part of the guide? That at least should say somethingabout the surface hardness Ted G. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Feb 7 11:40:59 1998 Subject: Bamboo Rod Mag. URL http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Acres/2888/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 7 11:44:52 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry - To the best of my knowledge, none of the nickel silver alloys canbehardened by any method except work hardening. In other words, you wouldhaveto buy the wire hard drawn to begin with. Even if you do this the hardnesswill not approach that of a modern coated guide, or of the old styletungstensteel guides.I have seen the stuff used for guides on old rods, but wear resistance is adirect function of hardness. The most you can get out of NS at extra springtemper is a Rockwell hardness of about B 100, which corresponds to about20 onthe Rockwell C scale. Hard chrome plating is about C 60. That is a hugedifference. I would not recommend NS for guides unless the rod is to beverylightly used. from jczimny@dol.net Sat Feb 7 12:53:42 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry Foster wrote: assistance Can Nickle Silver wire be hardened enough to use for guides? if so,whats the process. jerryJerry,I would think that NS in any of the alloys would be a poor material forany type of surface that is subbect to abrasion. It cannot be hardenedexcept by work hardening. You'd have to buy it drawn in the full hardcondition. I would opt for stainless in one of the "hardenable" alloys.John from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 7 14:22:40 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry Foster wrote:Can Nickle Silver wire be hardened enough to use for guides? if so,whats the process.Jerry,I would say "No", it cannot be hardened enough to withstand muchshooting of line. It was certainly used, and I can send you a few if youneed them; when I bought a rod a few years ago that had NS snakes Ireplaced them with reverse twist, low-profile snakes. Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 7 14:26:47 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry,Strangely, while I have little confidence in the wear of NS snakes, Ihave a NS stripper that has seen a lot of use and shows no trace ofgrooving.Best regards,Reed from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 7 14:38:13 1998 Subject: guides Thanks guys I had come buy several rolls of NS wire and had tried several hardeningtechniques.. to no avail. so I think the consensus is that it's not apractical solution. I'll use it for hook keepers..thanks for all the input jerry from DrBamboo@aol.com Sat Feb 7 16:31:06 1998 Subject: Re: web Jerry;Nave a listing on flyfish . com Just upgraded computer so we candesigna page from here.Can I get a listing on your rodmakers page and get you the webpage later? Thanks,George from servodyne@fda.net Sat Feb 7 16:31:23 1998 ns2.fda.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id NAA10259 for Subject: H.L. Leonard Rod Gentlemen: I am just new here on Rodmakers and wondered if someone wouldbe kindenough to help me... I have an opportunity to purchase a H.L. Leonardfly rod but I really don't know what the real value might be, how old itis etc...Here is a description of the rod and any guidance you canprovide is greatly appreciated... Further this rod will need to beprofessionally restored..is there anyone here who has experience withthis..probably is...this seems like the place where the rod gurus hangout!!! Can anyone tell me who could do such a restoration??? Here is the description:It is an H.L. Leonard 3 piece fly rod with 2 tips and has the followingmarkings opposite the reel seat: H.L. Leonard maker W. Mills & Son, NewYork Sole Agents. The main piece is 40.5" long, center piece is 33.5"long, yje 2 tips are 39" long and 38.5" long.. . Both tip ferrules havebeen replaced as well as the piece that the ferrule goes into on themiddle piece.... There is no visible crushing or dings on the bamboo..and each piece is straight without warpage...or any signs ofde-lamination...it is considered to be very clean and has been in theround bamboo case for years... The case appears very old (like ancientold!) and the owner thinks that it may be the original one that the rodcame with. It appears that it could use a proper restoration though...Any help you can give me would be much appreciated... Thank You,Mike Davis from DrBamboo@aol.com Sat Feb 7 16:42:14 1998 Subject: Re: H.L. Leonard Rod Mike;Contact Len Codella @ len@codelle.com or Bob Corsetti at603-886- 0411.Bothare dealers in vintage collectible tackle as well as new cane rods.GEM from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Sat Feb 7 16:58:54 1998 (AST) 7 Feb 98 18:04:04 -0500 0500 7 Feb 98 18:03:31 -0500 Subject: Planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0076_01BD33F2.B0A5CCC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BD33F2.B0A5CCC0 Who can tell me how many different planes you have to use and also what=are the makes and models that you suggest to use.John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~jmckinnon.students ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BD33F2.B0A5CCC0 Who can tell me how many different planesyou = use and also what are the makes and models that you suggest to =use.John F. =McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~j=mckinnon.students ------=_NextPart_000_0076_01BD33F2.B0A5CCC0-- from servodyne@fda.net Sat Feb 7 17:04:18 1998 ns2.fda.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id PAA14668 for Subject: Re: H.L. Leonard Rod GEM,Thank for the tip ...much appreciated!!!Best Regards,Mike DrBamboo@aol.com wrote: Mike;Contact Len Codella @ len@codelle.com or Bob Corsetti at603-886- 0411.Bothare dealers in vintage collectible tackle as well as new cane rods.GEM from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 7 17:56:45 1998 Subject: Re: H.L. Leonard Rod M. Davis wrote:It is an H.L. Leonard 3 piece fly rod with 2 tips and has the followingmarkings opposite the reel seat: H.L. Leonard maker W. Mills & Son, NewYork Sole Agents. The main piece is 40.5" long, center piece is 33.5"long, yje 2 tips are 39" long and 38.5" long.. . Both tip ferrules havebeen replaced as well as the piece that the ferrule goes into on themiddle piece.... There is no visible crushing or dings on the bamboo..and each piece is straight without warpage...or any signs ofde-lamination...it is considered to be very clean and has been in the Mike,IMO with the short mid (7" is quite a loss for a mid-section) the rodis of value only for parts. Ten foot Leonards varied greatly in what wewould consider proper casting qualities. I think you would be better offwith a 9' specimen of their work, these can be quite reasonably pricedand feel much lighter in the hand.Best regards,Reed from servodyne@fda.net Sat Feb 7 18:22:57 1998 ns2.fda.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA18203 for Subject: Re: H.L. Leonard Rod Reed,Thank you for your kind help..yes it appears that this rod is cut bigtime as each section should be of equal lengths...yes I am looking for afishing rod to use not something that is a pain to cast...so I thinkthat I will pass on this and look for a better specimen in 7.5' to 8'weight 5 ... Thanks again...Best Regards,Mike Reed F. Curry wrote: M. Davis wrote:It is an H.L. Leonard 3 piece fly rod with 2 tips and has thefollowingmarkings opposite the reel seat: H.L. Leonard maker W. Mills & Son,NewYork Sole Agents. The main piece is 40.5" long, center piece is33.5"long, yje 2 tips are 39" long and 38.5" long.. . Both tip ferruleshavebeen replaced as well as the piece that the ferrule goes into on the middle piece.... There is no visible crushing or dings on thebamboo..and each piece is straight without warpage...or any signs ofde-lamination...it is considered to be very clean and has been inthe Mike,IMO with the short mid (7" is quite a loss for a mid-section)the rodis of value only for parts. Ten foot Leonards varied greatly in whatwewould consider proper casting qualities. I think you would be betteroffwith a 9' specimen of their work, these can be quite reasonably priced and feel much lighter in the hand.Best regards,Reed from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Feb 7 19:05:20 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Bret,Thanks, I would appreciate that. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Feb 7 19:05:38 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning? Mike, You'r lucky, in some ways. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Feb 7 19:16:28 1998 Subject: Re: NS source Jerry,I'm not sure if n/s wire can be hardened . I will check my metalworkingbooks for any info. There are also different n/s wires out there. 12%-18%etc.There may be a harder n/s wire out there, say 20%+ which may be hardenough.Only, if it is that hard, how are you going to bend it to form the guide? I have some 18% wire here, I'll do some experimenting with it and letyou know. Dave L. from d_price@global2000.net Sat Feb 7 19:45:07 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id UAA17980 for; Sat, 7 Feb 1998 20:44:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Waxing SalarFly@aol.com wrote: A few days ago I posted about experimenting on waxing the plane sole.I've also have tried waxing the plane blade, and waxing the planing form.Waxing the plane blade does make a big difference, but it lasts for onlya couple splines. Waxing the blade also reduces the effort to plane, andalong with waxing the sole, talk about a hot knife through warm butter!But, like I said, it lasts for only a couple splines. I don't think it's worththe effort to stop and take your plane apart to rewax every couple ofsplines. Waxing your planing form helps in making the effects of waxingyour plane sole last longer. Another plus with waxing your planing formis it should reduce the rusting of your forms when you are not using it. Darryl Hayashida Darryl I have a big smile, seems like you and a couple of others haveseen what waxing will do for you.I'm glad I could contribute somethingthat seems worthwhile to this mailing list that Iv'e learned so muchfromkeep up the good work!!!!. Dave Price (try it on table saws and jointers,wow!) from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sat Feb 7 21:07:07 1998 Subject: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing Rich-Sorry I didn't get to this sooner, I was out of town all week. This is froma late 1920's, 91/2', Granger Special. Spacing's from the end of the tiploop with the rod assembled. 6 5/8, 12 3/4, 20 1/4, 28 1/4, 36 1/2, ferrule, 40 7/8, 50, 61 1/2, 741/8,ferrule, 83 1/4(stripper) The 36 1/2 + 40 7/8 butt up against the ferrule tabs and the 74 1/8 buttsagainst the mid ferrule. Hope this helps, Dennis from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Feb 7 21:11:44 1998 Subject: Re: Waxing There is a slickery stuff for equipment called BoeShield, it's made herein HOlland for use on Boeing Aircraft. No silicone or oil residue, andit's slicker than a gut leader dipped in grape jelly. Brian from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Feb 8 04:39:10 1998 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale ferrules? EAA26539 I have just taken delivery of 4 sets of these ferrules and they have a nicefinish to them and I think good value. Mick. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 8 08:57:47 1998 Subject: Turbo torch T-7 Wayne C.,Sorry wrong torch was wondering about turbo Torch not Surefire.Bret from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 8 09:53:44 1998 Subject: Len Codella All;Itried to e-mail Len Codella at the address posted the other day and itcame back host unknown. Does anyone have a correct address and does hehavea web site?John (too cheap to use the phone)Channer from DrBamboo@aol.com Sun Feb 8 12:13:15 1998 Subject: Re: Len Codella Address for Len Codella is len@codella.com from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 8 13:14:34 1998 Subject: address George;Thanks, I'll try that spelling, maybe I misspelled it when tried before.John Channer from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Feb 8 13:45:09 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 8Feb 1998 14:46:03 +0000 Subject: Varnish Does someone know the # for the warnish Wayne reccomends. I bought some but misplaced the phone #. I was using the 77-504. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 8 14:13:31 1998 Subject: Re: Quad rod Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: John,I was wondering why when I asked you about help with possibly trying tobuilda quad rod for myself you were not willing to divulge any information astothe process.BretMy Dear BretYou realize that I have worked really hard for the last five yearsdeveloping techniques for making quads by buying old Edwards rods,dismantling them, and then trying to decide how they did it. Then Ispent about $3000 on chucks and NS tube so that I could make theferrules. Then I spent 3 years working on tapers that worked. I Learnedto make the necessary tools and dies so that I could make a first rateproduct. All the while, the existing quad makers would tell me very, very little.And that is as it should be. And, I would not have had the bad mannersto ask. Now, when they know that I actually make a decent rod, we share informtion freely. As in everything that is good and true, one has topay dues. Right now I have a small business and 65% of my business is in quads.Would anyone expect to go to a Drug Company and have them share theirproprietary processes. Them why does anyone expect me to share mine? In point of fact, I did tell you how to make a quad. What I did'nt tellyou has been written about and is readily available. What I am notprepared to do is to write a 400 page essay soley for your own use.Remember, no one has a duty to gratify your every wish. Lastly, I am appalled that you would have lack of personal dignity toask such a question. John Zimny from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 8 15:26:57 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Varnish Jon Lintvet wrote: Does someone know the # for the warnish Wayne reccomends. I boughtsome but misplaced the phone #. I was using the 77-504. Jon LintvetJohn, are you looking for the phone # or varnish number. It's PittsburgPaints number 77-5, poly. Any Pittsburg Paint store can get it for you. Harry Boyd from jsbond@inforamp.net Sun Feb 8 17:15:04 1998 Subject: Re: Planes John, The world seems to agree on the Stanley or the Record 9 1/2. The samepeopledon't agree on blades and sharpening, but what the heck. I think the Hockblades are great and worth the money but the factory iron properly tunedandsharpened will work fine. You may have to tune the plane body too, it isnothard, just requires a little elbow grease, welcome to rod making. JB At 18:03 07/02/98 -0500, you wrote:Who can tell me how many different planes you have to use and also whatarethe makes and models that you suggest to use.John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~jmckinnon.students Who can tell me how many different planesyou have to use and also what are the makes and models that you suggest touse.John F. nnon.students James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from SowderJL@aol.com Sun Feb 8 17:23:55 1998 Subject: Re: 9'6" Granger Guide Spacing RMargiotta@aol.com wrote: Does anyone have the spacing for a 9'6" Goodwin Granger Special (or any9'6"Granger for that matter)? Thanks. --Rich The following guide spacings come from a 9 1/2-foot Goodwin Granger Denver Special, one of the older models from the 20s before the Special was introduced. The problem is that the tip on this rod is 2 1/4 inches short. I assume that it was broken at the tip end rather than the butt end, but 7" seems quite a ways down for the first guide. 7"13 3/821 1/428 5/836 3/8 (bottom of tip section)40 3/8 (top of mid section)5061 1/274 1/483 1/4 Hope this helps. Matt Clifford _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ I also have a 9'6" Granger Special. Its from the 'Coke bottle' grip era. Thetip is 4" short, but starting with the second guide (at 13 3/8") theymeasurethe same as above down to the striping guide (83 1/4"). Jim from brookside.rod@juno.com Sun Feb 8 19:10:04 1998 20:09:25 EST Subject: Re: Quads and paying dues. John, you have correctly addressed the infernal question. Those of us who build the cane rod in order to pay the bills are willingto help where we can.In the same way as you I have spent many years and invested more than afew of my family's dollars in my business. I believe that learning involves some effort andthat important things need significant effort. To me there is afterfamily, little in life more important than a good bamboo fly rod. Especially one of mine. Just as yours', my rods are what they are because of how I build them,the design, the methods, processes and equipment all built by me impartsome of my skill and personality into every rod. I am happy to assistsome in the building of their rods but I will not reveal to them how Ibuild my rods. While composing this note I've gone thru my archives. Ifind that during the past year I've answered forty seven email requests and varnishing and my impregnation process. Guides, cork, the works.Many of these questions came to me via my web site, some from this list. I believe that all my answers were helpful. Many I'm sure, wereprobably not complete enough to stand alone. The need to get the workthru the shop did not always permit a complete or detailed answer. Somefolks were looking for a quick fix. There were a few folks however, whenafter apparently trying a suggested course of action returned with morequestions of a more specific nature which confirmed the effort and aserious interest and to which I responded. I remember my grandfather telling me many years ago that nothing good inlife comes easy. I have found that he was right. John, I hope Somerset went well for you. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.commaker of fine handcrafted split bamboo fly rodsBrookside Rod Co.37 Brook Street Naugatuck, Ct. 06770- 3101on-line catalog: http://home.onestop.net/brookside end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 8 19:55:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japaning? Ian,It must have been Sunday morning about 3:00 A. m.-that's when minealwaysgot out and usually ate the neighbor's roses-talk about looks from allsides!Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 8 19:55:36 1998 Subject: Re: my rod refinishing project and winding check Joe,I usually use a check that fits over the blank and use 5 minute epoxy tofill the difference between the hex and the round.Hank. from DRinker370@aol.com Sun Feb 8 20:02:27 1998 Subject: Wood vs metal lathes I have been looking into a few small lathes for rodmaking. My question iswill a small metal lathe be a better choice overall, leaving open thepossibility of creating my own metal seats, ferrules,ect. Or am I lookingfortoo much from one tool. I have no experience with metals but plenty withwood. Is metal working in rodmaking that difficult? Thanks in advanceDave from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Feb 8 20:39:58 1998 Mon, 9 Feb 1998 10:39:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes I have been looking into a few small lathes for rodmaking. My questioniswill a small metal lathe be a better choice overall, leaving open thepossibility of creating my own metal seats, ferrules,ect. Or am I lookingfortoo much from one tool. I have no experience with metals but plentywithwood. Is metal working in rodmaking that difficult? Thanks in advanceDave I bought a Sherline which is an excellent lathe, however as many here will agree you'll wind up wanting to use the lathe for more tasks sooner or later and a larger lathe bought from the start will be money betterspent. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Feb 8 21:02:41 1998 Subject: Its looking like a museum around here All,I do not wish to make a vulgar commercial statement, but I thoughtsomeone on the list might appreciate the following.In looking for something, I found that "things" had been accumulatingbeyond my capacity to use them. So I'm cleaning up a bit. I've puttogether a "kit" perfect for the 1930's fly fisherman. Email me directly Wayne, I also found two boxes from silk lines. They are yours (I'llbring them to grayling in June) but I need a beer at Spike's inrecompense.Best regards,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 8 21:23:08 1998 Subject: Re: help me please Anthony,Figure time required for a given job and bill accordingly.Hank. from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Feb 8 22:38:35 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Dear Dave If you get a wood lathe, you will play hell trying to do any kind of accuratework on any of the processes used to make parts for a flyrod. If, on the other hand, you get a good metal lathe, you can make your ownferrules, reel seats, winding checks, butt plates and, if you get reelambitious... Actually, it depends on what you mean by "small metal lathes". There aresomevery small lathes made for model builders that I would not advise buyingforany purpose. The best route, considering you have room and can do a little modificationtoyour garage's wiring, is to look around for an old South Bend or Craftsman-something like that. Try to find out if it's got Timken bearings in thehead.This will make a large difference in the degree of accuracy you can expecttomaintain under a load. Since I don't recall you saying whether you have any experience on thisequipment, I might advise you taking a night class at your local highschoolor trade school. This usually doesn't cost much and can easily pay backthetime and money, perhaps manyfold. Hope this information does you some good. I paid top dollar for it ;-)Davy from richjez@enteract.com Sun Feb 8 22:45:28 1998 0000 Lrichjez.enteract.com)(207.229.150.112) Subject: Re: Japaning? Hank,It sounds like she was chasing a white rabbit.Rich Jezioro At 08:54 PM 2/8/98 EST, you wrote:Ian,It must have been Sunday morning about 3:00 A. m.-that's when minealwaysgot out and usually ate the neighbor's roses-talk about looks from allsides!Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 8 23:53:25 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Dear Dave If you get a wood lathe, you will play hell trying to do any kind ofaccuratework on any of the processes used to make parts for a flyrod. If, on the other hand, you get a good metal lathe, you can make your ownferrules, reel seats, winding checks, butt plates and, if you get reelambitious... Actually, it depends on what you mean by "small metal lathes". Thereare somevery small lathes made for model builders that I would not advise buyingforany purpose. The best route, considering you have room and can do a littlemodification toyour garage's wiring, is to look around for an old South Bend orCraftsman- something like that. Try to find out if it's got Timken bearings in thehead.This will make a large difference in the degree of accuracy you canexpect tomaintain under a load. Since I don't recall you saying whether you have any experience on thisequipment, I might advise you taking a night class at your local highschoolor trade school. This usually doesn't cost much and can easily pay backthetime and money, perhaps manyfold. Hope this information does you some good. I paid top dollar for it ;-)Davy Southbend nor the Atlas/Craftsman lathes have roller bearins. They havebronze bush/bearings that are contained in an oil bath. They are, atleast potentially, the quietest and the most accrurate of all bearingtypes.John from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Mon Feb 9 00:47:05 1998 IAA05173 Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: Re: Planes ----------From: rodmakers Subject: Re: PlanesDate: 9. February 1998 01:28 John, The world seems to agree on the Stanley or the Record 9 1/2. The same peopledon't agree on blades and sharpening, but what the heck. I think the Hockblades are great and worth the money but the factory iron properly tuned andsharpened will work fine. You may have to tune the plane body too, it is nothard, just requires a little elbow grease, welcome to rod making. JB I was thinking the same plane question that was asked. Mr. Garrison used several different kind of planes; small palm planes (huh, what might thatbe in finnish), stanley #60.5 ans stanley #9.5 (at least these can be found from his book). Do I understand it right if I say you guys are using stanley #9.5 every time when planing is needed. Or even better, am I able to builda rod with satisfying results if I buy only stanley #9.5 ( I am trying to get tools etc. so I can start this thing going). Seppo from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 9 03:45:26 1998 Mon, 9 Feb 1998 17:45:09 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Planes On Mon, 9 Feb 1998, Karkkainen Seppo NTC/BS-OU wrote: The world seems to agree on the Stanley or the Record 9 1/2. The same peopledon't agree on blades and sharpening, but what the heck. I think theHockblades are great and worth the money but the factory iron properlytuned I was thinking the same plane question that was asked. Mr. Garrison used several different kind of planes; small palm planes (huh, what might thatbe in finnish), stanley #60.5 ans stanley #9.5 (at least these can be found from his book). Do I understand it right if I say you guys are usingstanley #9.5 every time when planing is needed. Or even better, am I able tobuild a rod with satisfying results if I buy only stanley #9.5 ( I am trying to get tools etc. so I can start this thing going). Seppo Yep, you can use ONLY a #9 1/2 (or 60 1/2 if you have one) and forget the rest unless you'd also like to spring for a LN scraper some day though more than a few on this list don't see the need for one of these. Garrison knew his stuff and is an icon to the craft but he seemed to be a planeamaniac and found a way to use every plane he had for every rod he made. Or so it seemes. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jmdavis@hsc.vcu.edu Mon Feb 9 08:49:21 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id AAA4948 Subject: Re: Its looking like a museum around here Just how would the archetypal 1930's fly fisherman be outfitted? I wouldbe interested in receiving your list. Thanks, Mike Davis Reed F. Curry wrote: All,I do not wish to make a vulgar commercial statement, but I thoughtsomeone on the list might appreciate the following.In looking for something, I found that "things" had beenaccumulatingbeyond my capacity to use them. So I'm cleaning up a bit. I've puttogether a "kit" perfect for the 1930's fly fisherman. Email me directly Wayne, I also found two boxes from silk lines. They are yours (I'llbring them to grayling in June) but I need a beer at Spike's inrecompense.Best regards,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net -- Mike Davis University Computing Services-MCVSGI Systems Administrator Virginia Commonwealth Universityjmdavis@hsc.vcu.edu 804-828-9843 x142 (fax: 804-828-9807) from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 9 09:50:09 1998 I have a 9 1/2 Stanley plane and also a small palm plane. (looks justlike the one Garrison used) I find that the palm plane is great for use with my tip scarf block.It's easy to handle for making short passes over the rod stub. Don'tknow if I'll use it for planing strips when I finally start making rods. Don Burns from thramer@presys.com Mon Feb 9 11:57:09 1998 0000 Subject: plane waxing This was mentioned briefl;y in a prior message, If ANY of the wax istransfered to the cane the glue will not bond completely. Perhaps enoughto "get it out the door" but it would surely fail when the chips weredown. There is no substitute for a properly tuned plane or bars. Withpractice the planing operation will no longer dig into the bars.As inmost things if it were easy it would not be worth doing. Considering the amount of time an amateur has in preparing the stripsit would be a monumental dissapointment for the resulting rod to fail inuse.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from d_price@global2000.net Mon Feb 9 12:49:48 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id NAA28301 for; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 13:49:34 -0500 Subject: Re: plane waxing A.J.Thramer wrote: This was mentioned briefl;y in a prior message, If ANY of the wax istransfered to the cane the glue will not bond completely. Perhaps enoughto "get it out the door" but it would surely fail when the chips weredown.There is no substitute for a properly tuned plane or bars. Withpractice the planing operation will no longer dig into the bars.As in>most things if it were easy it would not be worth doing.Considering the amount of time an amateur has in preparing the stripsit would be a monumental dissapointment for the resulting rod to fail inuse.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com Yes there is no substitute for a well tuned plane, waxing is after youget everything tuned up and working perfectly.Then try to wax it and seehow your new tool preforms. If waxed properly you will not have any waxtransfer. I can tell you havent tried this yet and are talking from yourlife experiance!!.Dave Price from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Feb 9 13:14:03 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing A.J., I got to cast one of your 4 wt rods that Mac MacDowell had the otherday at our Oregon Coast gathering. Very nice. My compliments. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: A.J.Thramer Subject: plane waxingDate: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:00 AM This was mentioned briefl;y in a prior message, If ANY of the wax istransfered to the cane the glue will not bond completely. Perhaps enoughto "get it out the door" but it would surely fail when the chips weredown. There is no substitute for a properly tuned plane or bars. Withpractice the planing operation will no longer dig into the bars.As inmost things if it were easy it would not be worth doing. Considering the amount of time an amateur has in preparing the stripsit would be a monumental dissapointment for the resulting rod to fail inuse.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 9 13:16:30 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japaning? Rich,185 beef cows and calves? Not a white rabbit in sight.Hank. from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Feb 9 14:31:14 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23398 for Subject: Philosophy To the List,Many memories fade with the years, but I still vividly recall the timesback in the sixties when I as a beginner was stonewalled at every turn inmyefforts to get rod building help. Then along came Garrison at last revealingall his secrets, and most of all, the open-ness of builders on this list,and TPF. It was to me a revelation. But it seems that there are still twoschools of thought, and rightly so, when earning a living is involved. Iguess we should all be conscious of these facts of life. Bill from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Feb 9 14:40:50 1998 Subject: Re: Planes YES!!!! ----------From: Karkkainen Seppo NTC/BS-OU Subject: Re: PlanesDate: Monday, February 09, 1998 1:46 AM ----------From: rodmakers Subject: Re: PlanesDate: 9. February 1998 01:28 John, The world seems to agree on the Stanley or the Record 9 1/2. The same peopledon't agree on blades and sharpening, but what the heck. I think theHockblades are great and worth the money but the factory iron properlytuned andsharpened will work fine. You may have to tune the plane body too, itis nothard, just requires a little elbow grease, welcome to rod making. JB I was thinking the same plane question that was asked. Mr. Garrison used several different kind of planes; small palm planes (huh, what might thatbe in finnish), stanley #60.5 ans stanley #9.5 (at least these can be found from his book). Do I understand it right if I say you guys are usingstanley #9.5 every time when planing is needed. Or even better, am I able tobuild a rod with satisfying results if I buy only stanley #9.5 ( I am trying toget tools etc. so I can start this thing going). Seppo from flyfisher@rhco.com Mon Feb 9 14:59:02 1998 15:58:14 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Planes You can build an entire rod with nothing more than a 9.5 plane. Later,you may decide that you want a scraper, but it is not a necessity to getstarted. Brian ThomanChattahoochee Rodshttp://www.bambooflyrods.com I was thinking the same plane question that was asked. Mr. Garrisonused several different kind of planes; small palm planes (huh, what mightthatbe in finnish), stanley #60.5 ans stanley #9.5 (at least these can befound from his book). Do I understand it right if I say you guys are usingstanley #9.5 every time when planing is needed. Or even better, am I able tobuild a rod with satisfying results if I buy only stanley #9.5 ( I am tryingtoget tools etc. so I can start this thing going). Seppo from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Feb 9 16:02:27 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id WAA06965 for; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 22:22:00 +0100 (CET) Subject: No letters from List Hello Everybody I haven't had one single letter from the List for the last 5 days so Ipresume something is wrong, just don't know how/where. So please, allYouregular contributors, please return this to me with Your name on. ShouldYou happen to have any good ideas as to what is wrong, please respond. To Mike: Have checked with my provider, no mail from the list in my box,but test mail from friends have arrived. Do we have a listserver problem?This all started as I reinstalled Microsofts browser ver. 3.01 (I think).Suggestions are welcomed Regards Carsten Jorgensen from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Feb 9 16:20:55 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: No letters from List Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Hello Everybody I haven't had one single letter from the List for the last 5 days so Ipresume something is wrong, just don't know how/where. So please, allYouregular contributors, please return this to me with Your name on. ShouldYou happen to have any good ideas as to what is wrong, please respond. To Mike: Have checked with my provider, no mail from the list in my box,but test mail from friends have arrived. Do we have a listserverproblem?This all started as I reinstalled Microsofts browser ver. 3.01 (I think).Suggestions are welcomed Regards Carsten JorgensenCarsten, I had to unsubscribe, and then re-subscribe when I had asimilar problem. You may have to do the same, but don't take my advice,I barely know how to turn the computer on!!Harry Boyd from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Feb 9 16:53:53 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA10998 for; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 23:21:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: No letters Sorry Guys Lost my head because of PC problems. Please send me a note at c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk as I still don't get any letters from the List. Don't now if You receivethis, sent via Rodmakers page. There are times (right now) where I hate PC`s Best regards Carsten Jorgensenex PCfreak from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Feb 9 17:06:35 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Now Davy - Precission work on a good wood lathe is not impossible. Ireularly make wood boxes with friction fit tops that fit together "tothe thickness of smoke."You just have to practice. It's a lot like building a bamboo fly rod.The learning curve sure feels awfully damn flat at first, but youimprove in fits and starts. You can't make metal parts on a wood lathe, though. You CAN makereelseats on a metal lathe. Brian from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 9 17:23:14 1998 Subject: Re: Planes Seppo I hate to break ranks, in terms of personal preference, but the Recordis a much better tool. castings are better and the stock blade, whilenot a Hock, is pretty good. It also feels a little lighter in hand. Jerry from clancampbell@mcn.net Mon Feb 9 17:37:08 1998 Subject: how do I get off this listserver? I need off, I'm getting 500+ messages a day and I need to cut back, everytime I send a unsubscribe message I get all this stuff back, everything buta conformation of me off the list, any ideas on how to get off?Mike from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 9 17:44:11 1998 Subject: Re: Planes In a message dated 2/9/98 3:25:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,jfoster@gte.netwrites: I hate to break ranks, in terms of personal preference, but the Recordis a much better tool. castings are better and the stock blade, whilenot a Hock, is pretty good. It also feels a little lighter in hand. My feeling also. I prefer the Record, but my hands are smaller than average, so others may not. Darryl Hayashida from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Feb 9 17:46:41 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA091867843; Mon, 9 Feb 1998 15:44:03 -0800 Subject: RE: Unsubscribing Mike, Be sure you are sending your request to the proper address (see below). Also use capitals and lower case as shown. It may make the difference. Hope this helps.Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu..................to signoff from the list, email to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu with the following request: signoff RODMAKERSorunsubscribe RODMAKERS from penr0295@uidaho.edu Mon Feb 9 17:51:13 1998 doing-bs Subject: Re: Planes Because I have fairly large hands I find that the Record 9 1/2 isconsiderably more uncomfortable for me to use for extended periodsbecause of its shorter length. I do find that it is easier to make fineblade depth adjustments with the Record however, since the adjustmentmechanism is more sensitive than I have found my Stanley's to be. As far as the size issue is concerned, it seems that it is morecomfortable to hold a block plane if it is long enough to fit into yourhand so that your index finger is fully extended while planing. My handsare too big to do this with the Record. I guess I am just saying thathand size might be a consideration in determining which one you want toget. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Mon Feb 9 19:19:12 1998 mailfep3-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: Quads and paying dues. type="54455854"; While I don't build any quads, the spirit of John Zimny's response waswell understood. Like some of you, I get a fair number of requests forvarious information about building, restorations and price estimatesetc. etc. ... mostly, through my web site. As time permits, I honestlytry to give these folks an answer that will make sense to them,realizing that everyone doesn't have the staying power or interest levelto actually follow-through. But still, I'm constantly amazed at how manypeople never even bother to drop a quick e-mail 'thank-you' after I'veput forth fair effort to give them some intelligent guidance. Go figure?Fortunately, there are many others that I'm happy to help. Joe LovertiLoverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 9 19:47:21 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes In a message dated 98-02-09 18:13:17 EST, you write: Like I said, Brian, you'll play hell ;-) But, seriously, I was thinking in terms of a guy with only a wood lathetryingto rig it to machine metals. Also, when I posted upon this subject before, I mentioned Timken bearings.That's geezerspeak for tapered bearings, much as many of us still say"Prestone" when we really mean "antifreeze". And that was directed mainly to those who plan to spend large amounts ofpotatoes on new-fangled gizmos I'm not familiar with. Economy of wordsbegetting waste of paragraphs. Davy from OsageCane@aol.com Mon Feb 9 20:02:32 1998 Subject: iron straightening I've just completed my first binding job. My binder belt did some majorslipping and introduced a very good twist in both tips and a small one in the buttsection.I've been using a heat gun working on the twists but just can'nt find therod straight again. I have read somewhere about using an iron to straighten arod blank, could someone please explain this procedure. thanks Dave Keller from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 9 20:07:06 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing Dear Listers Just a little cautionary note concerning wax. I'm not going to take sides on "to wax or not to wax", but be careful to usean "organic" type of wax. Silicone really will mess you up. It willcontaminate tools, materials and instruments; it will migrate from one totheother and inhibit many types of glues and finishes from adhering well. Check labels carefully and don't let it in your shop. Davy from harsha@aros.net Mon Feb 9 20:38:01 1998 19:37:23 Subject: Re: Philosophy Bill Fink wrote: To the List,Many memories fade with the years, but I still vividly recall the timesback in the sixties when I as a beginner was stonewalled at every turn inmyefforts to get rod building help. Then along came Garrison at lastrevealingall his secrets, and most of all, the open-ness of builders on this list,and TPF. It was to me a revelation. But it seems that there are still twoschools of thought, and rightly so, when earning a living is involved. Iguess we should all be conscious of these facts of life. Bill Bill and All, Bill, I agree with your philosophy. I am myself now in the positionyou were in so many years ago. I fell in love with bamboo rods a fewyears ago and decided to see if I could handle building one. I boughtWaynes book and read and reread it. I then built some forms and a rod.It was at times very frustrating, and without the knowledge gleaned from that book would have been impossible. I will also say that Wayne,as busy as he is, was gratious enough to accept some calls from me andgive me answers to what I am sure many of you would consider very basicquestions.I have also been given advice and help from others on the list, notablyReed Curry and Richard Tyree. I am very grateful for all the assistanceI have received.Your point is well taken that there are many different views expressedon the list, and this is as it should be. A person's knowledge is hisor hers to do wish as they may. None of us has the right to questionanother's motives or actions unless they are hurtful of others.I do, however, have a problem with personal attacks on the list. To methis list is a place for people who love bamboo rods and the making ofbamboo rod s to get together and share experiences and knowledge andeven have a little fun, i.e.( the woman from New Zealand who wanted offthis ##$%^(@& list.)My hope is that if differences in feeling and opinion must be addressed,that they be adressed off-list.I am sure that some, if not many, of you reading this will not agreewith me. I invite comment and constructive criticism. I do hope,however, that if anyone wants to "tell this upstart little jerk off"that they do it off-list. My e-mail address is (harsha@aros.net).This is not being written to offend anyone and is just my opinion. Wishing all of you the best of luck in your rodmaking endeavors and Ihope that all of you get the same feeling of joy as I do when I pull myrod from it's case, smell the tung oil and ask myself "Did I really dothis?" Thank you for allowing me to ramble on like this. Mike Harsha from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Feb 9 20:51:01 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Dave,If you can only buy one lathe, Buy the metal lathe. Turning metalcomponentsin a lathe isn't that hard and you can turn your wood in the same lathe. Ifyou buy the wood lathe,I gurantee you will kick your self later for not buying themetallathe. Dave LeClair from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 9 20:55:07 1998 Subject: Re: iron straightening In a message dated 2/9/98 6:37:12 PM Pacific Standard Time,OsageCane@AOL.COMwrites: I have read somewhere about using an iron to straighten a rod blank, could someone please explain this procedure. It was in The Planing Form about a year and a half ago. Basicallyyou set your planing form so that about an eighth of an inch of theblank protrudes above the surface, and you use a clothes iron to heat and straighten the blank. I tried it once, and it took out theshort kinks, but didn't take out the long sweeping crookedness.I think if you take the time to practice, it will probably work fairlywell. Darryl Hayashida from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 9 21:02:55 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Dave,i found three places here in town who deal in old so. Bend lathes anyonebetter to get than others.Bret from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 9 21:03:27 1998 Subject: Re: No letters from List Carsten, I don't have a clue as to your problem-I barely know how to turn this#@%^*& thing on.Hank. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 9 21:13:07 1998 Tue, 10 Feb 1998 11:12:30 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: plane waxing On Mon, 9 Feb 1998 Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Dear Listers Just a little cautionary note concerning wax. I'm not going to take sides on "to wax or not to wax", but be careful tousean "organic" type of wax. Silicone really will mess you up. It willcontaminate tools, materials and instruments; it will migrate from oneto theother and inhibit many types of glues and finishes from adhering well. Check labels carefully and don't let it in your shop. Davy That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing or dusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have silicon in the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Feb 9 21:23:35 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Bret,I have a nine inch, tool room lathe ( South Bend ) here in myshop. There hasn't been much I couldn't do in this lathe. ( Turn down riflebarrels, make reel seat components, make wooden bowling pins, etc. I wouldn'ggo any smaller than a six inch. A nine or ten inch is good for what you wantto do. Just make sure you can change speeds with the levers, you don't want to have to change the gears every time you want to change speeds. Dave LeClair from DRinker370@aol.com Mon Feb 9 22:09:23 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Thanks for the advice on lathes . I think a metal lathe is the best choice.My other would be what would be a minimum size for spindle hole toplace arod through since the size varies somewhat on each lathe I have looked at.Also, why would I need a larger bed size that 10 to 15 inches. David from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 9 22:32:33 1998 Subject: question I received this from Ian a while ago as you will note and forgot tofollow up, so for those of you interested... Jerry Subject:Resources For AnglersDate:Sat, 31 Jan 1998 21:15:35 +0500From:"Ian H. Scott" Organization:PairoWoodies Publishing Jerry Foster Hi Jerry: Not sure if you will remember me or not, I used to participate onoccasion in the rodmakers list, and operated Wishbone Custom Rods inGrand Valley, Ontario. Because of a family breakup, I was forced to move and end my rodbuilding activities due to lack of space..these things happen. Since then, having to find some extra cash to help pay for the wickedchild support payments, I have gotten involved in some web designstuff. A small hobby site I have been working on, mainly as a sourceof links for anglers is Resources For Anglers at:http://absolute-sway.com/rfa/ We are trying to drum up some sponsorship for the site, both to helpcontinue it and to put gas in the car, hehe. We are planning on somemonthly features, and this month we are going to do a sort of 'subsite' on cane rod building. I will be doing a basic outline of someof the interesting aspects of cane rod crafting, and including linksto other sites for more information. I am hoping that perhaps theremay be some out there who might want to do some banner advertising totake advantage of the traffic we will get. I will be promoting thesite heavily, as a way to introduce those not familiar with cane rodsto the art and topic. I have problems submitting posts to the list now because of my newISP, and as well, I am not so sure that this would be an appropriatetopic for it anyhow. Perhaps you would have some ideas, and maybeknow of some that would like to take advantage of an opportunity toincrease traffic to their own site. Our rates are going to be veryinexpensive, and it would be a good way to promote a site. If you wantto view our 'feature', under construction at the moment, it is at:http://absolute-sway.com/rfa/Feb98/ Any comments would be great, and let me know of any links you think weshould have there, as well as general links on thehttp://absolute- sway.com/rfa/ site as well. Sign the guest book ifyou want too! Thanks for allowing me to take up your time, and hope to hear fromyou. Warm Regards,Ian ScottIan H. Scott32 Brinloor Blvd.,Scarborough, OntarioM1M 1L2http://www.absolute- sway.com/pairowoodieshttp://www.absolute-sway.com/rfa "It is in men as in soils, where sometimes thereis a vein of gold which the owner knows not of."Jonathan Swift IAW from flyfisher@brinet.com Mon Feb 9 22:47:35 1998 23:52:44-0500 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Bret,I have a nine inch, tool room lathe ( South Bend ) here in myshop. There hasn't been much I couldn't do in this lathe. ( Turn down riflebarrels, make reel seat components, make wooden bowling pins, etc. I wouldn'ggo any smaller than a six inch. A nine or ten inch is good for what youwantto do. Is that 9" swing over the bed, swing over the cross slide or 9" long? Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Feb 9 23:17:36 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: plane waxing That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing ordusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have siliconin the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony All, The above may sound a bit far fetched, but it took me a year and a half tofigure out what happened to my once perfect flex-coat wraps on plasticrods - my fingers touched my shirt - just an innocent habit -%$#^, Ted G. from penr0295@uidaho.edu Tue Feb 10 00:34:26 1998 doing-bs Subject: Silver Creek Benefit I have set up a page with some information regarding The NatureConservancy of Idaho's 1998 Silver Creek Benefit, which occurs on Feb. 14th in Sun Valley, Idaho. For this year's benefit poster the NatureConservancy of Idaho chose my friend Jim Palmersheim's pastel image ofSilver Creek. If you are interested in this sort of thing both Jim and Iwould appreciate it if you stopped in to take a look. I understand thatthese posters are being sold through the Nature Conservancy of Idaho, withall proceeds going toward their funding: http://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/silvercrk.htm Thomas PenroseBend, OR from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Feb 10 02:02:02 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA17898 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:43:01 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Baby, I am back With this quotation from a exeedingly eloquent actor by the name ofArnoldSchwarzenegger (can You beleive it?)I wish to celebrate my return to thereal world - I am getting letters from all You fellows around the worldagain. My hands have stopped shaking, and I do take normal nutrition onceagain. Thanks to everybody on and of the list, answering to my calls ofdistress. Must say, though, that I am rather dissapointed in Bill for notanswering. (No, not that Bill - the other one). Again thanks for moral support and guidance of how to reenter the worldofbamboo Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Feb 10 02:02:03 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id IAA17904 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 08:43:03 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" This sunday I had the experience of trying out a Paul Young "ThePerfection" (or was it "The Perfectionist?). Anyway, it was a 7'6" #4beauty, tempered into colours between dark brown and black. The luckyownercould, easely, lay out a full DT 4 F line each and every time. I couldalmost not believe my own eyes. The guy also had a copy of it, rings notyet put on. According to the owner, this was a close copy of the Youngmodel, except for two things: It was 2 inches longer, and hollowbuilt. Thefunny thing is, the copy felt more steely. Question 1: Does hollowbuilding means stiffening the rod? According tothemathematical genius of my family, hollowbuilding means a softer rod. Myexperience was the opposite. Question 2: Does anybody have the taper for the Young rod? Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Tue Feb 10 02:23:55 1998 KAA06055 (EET) Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: Re: Planes I hate to break ranks, in terms of personal preference, but the Recordis a much better tool. castings are better and the stock blade, whilenot a Hock, is pretty good. It also feels a little lighter in hand. Jerry Thanks for the input about planes. I called to my local tool supplier, and he was very helpful and found out that it is possible to order one stanley 9.5 plane, but the record importer had not been willing to deliver only one plane. Sometimes I really envy you guys living behind the big water, it seems to be hard to find things I want from Finland. Well, I think stanley`s plane will do fine. I have to pay 430 FIM for it ( it is something like 80 $). Cheers,Seppo PS. Things are not that bad at all. After all, we allready have one gold medal from Nagano, and maybe more is coming. Sorry, Carsten, maybeBjorn Daehlie will do better next time ;-) from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Feb 10 02:56:01 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA19567 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:47:35 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Planes ----------From: Karkkainen Seppo Cheers,Seppo PS. Things are not that bad at all. After all, we allready have one gold medal from Nagano, and maybe more is coming. Sorry, Carsten, maybeBjorn Daehlie will do better next time ;-) Since when is icefishing an Olympic discipline .-) regards Carsten from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 10 06:12:36 1998 Subject: planes Seppo;Record and Stanley are both made in the U.K., surely thier is a tool supplyhouse in Finland that can get them for you. If not, there used to beseveral list members in the U.K., if they are not currently on the listthen peruse the archives for names and e-mail addresses, if nothing elseitmakes very interesting reading. Just a thought.John Channer from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Tue Feb 10 08:34:41 1998 QAA24434 (EET) Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: RE: planes Seppo;Record and Stanley are both made in the U.K., surely thier is a tool supplyhouse in Finland that can get them for you. If not, there used to beseveral list members in the U.K., if they are not currently on the listthen peruse the archives for names and e-mail addresses, if nothing else itmakes very interesting reading. Just a thought.John Channer Well, I think I will settle for stanley`s plane. Some of list members seem to think that stanley`s plane blades are "no good" (I mean the one delivered with the plane). I got the impression that these Hock-blades are fully compatible with stanley`s and record`s planes. Did I get it right?? Arethey expensive out there? It may seem that my questions are a bit naive, but I trust your good will toward to novice rodbuilder to be. Cheers,Seppo from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 10 08:39:36 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA13745 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 09:39:32 -0500 Subject: Re: plane waxing Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:21 PMSubject: Re: plane waxing That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing ordusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have siliconin the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony All, The above may sound a bit far fetched, but it took me a year and a half tofigure out what happened to my once perfect flex-coat wraps on plasticrods - my fingers touched my shirt - just an innocent habit -%$#^, Ted G. Ted you might want to look for another problem, the method I use to wrappoles uses a old T-shirt to apply preasure to the thread(that has beenwashed with fabric softener). Also have been wiping down stain onwoodworking for 20 years with them as many other shops have also.Dave Price (silicone is very nastie and world have made spots in thefinish) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 10 09:09:28 1998 Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:08:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE: planes On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Karkkainen Seppo NTC/BS-OU wrote: Seppo;Record and Stanley are both made in the U.K., surely thier is a tool supplyhouse in Finland that can get them for you. If not, there used to beseveral list members in the U.K., if they are not currently on the listthen peruse the archives for names and e-mail addresses, if nothingelse itmakes very interesting reading. Just a thought.John Channer Well, I think I will settle for stanley`s plane. Some of list membersseem to think that stanley`s plane blades are "no good" (I mean the onedelivered with the plane). I got the impression that these Hock-blades are fully compatible with stanley`s and record`s planes. Did I get it right?? Arethey expensive out there? It may seem that my questions are a bit naive, but I trust your good will toward to novice rodbuilder to be. Cheers,Seppo You'll need to specify the brand and model when ordering the Hock iron. In the case of the 60 1/2 there is a difference between the US and UK model. I have recently bought a 9 1/2 Record and haven't bought a Hock *yet* and must say I agree with those on the list that the Record iron is superior to the Stanley but it's not as good as the Hock. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Feb 10 10:30:26 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing another problem, the method I use to wrappoles uses a old T-shirt to apply preasure to the thread(that has beenwashed with fabric softener). Also have been wiping down stain onwoodworking for 20 years with them as many other shops have also.Dave Price (silicone is very nastie and world have made spots in thefinish) David, The silicone seemed to leave birds eye voids (often attributed toinadequateepoxy mixing - I mix it until I'm half blind) and poor adheshion to plasticblank at edges of wraps. I went through the usual foolishness of gettingnew mixing cups, talking to plastic blank manufacturer, and getting newstuff from flex coat company who also sent me some "special mystery"chemicals to help - didn't. Just swimming in silicone from the close dryerwas the only problem/source. Ted from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 10 10:34:44 1998 Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" In a message dated 2/10/98 12:05:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk writes: Question 1: Does hollowbuilding means stiffening the rod? According tothemathematical genius of my family, hollowbuilding means a softer rod.Myexperience was the opposite. I made a few hollow rods about two years ago. The difference isn'thardly noticeable for rods less than 8 ft. long, but, hollowing a roddoes make a rod flex more with the same weight, if that's what youmean by softer. The difference is in your perception of what's happening when you are casting it. With less weight as you areswinging it back and forth in a cast it seems as if the rod werestiffer. I would look at hollowing a rod longer than 8 ft., but it'snot worth the trouble on rods shorter than that. Darryl Hayashida from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 10 10:42:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Young "The Perfection" Carsten,My experience with hollow built rods is the same as yours-they seem tobestiffer or quicker, mathematical genii notwithstanding. Now some wouldsaythat because it's lighter it seems stiffer-my feeling is if it quacks like aduck,walks like a duck , flies like duck it probably is a duck (this ought tostir things up a bit.)Regards,Hank. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 10 10:43:09 1998 Subject: Re: Planes/Finland RO>Thanks for the input about planes. I called to my local tool supplier,andRO>he was very helpful and found out that it is possible to order onestanleyRO>9.5 plane, but the record importer had not been willing to deliver onlyoneRO>plane. Sometimes I really envy you guys living behind the big water, itRO>seems to be hard to find things I want from Finland. Well, I thinkstanley`sRO>plane will do fine. I have to pay 430 FIM for it ( it is something like 80RO>$). RO>Cheers,RO>Seppo RO>PS. Things are not that bad at all. After all, we allready have one goldRO>medal from Nagano, and maybe more is coming. Sorry, Carsten, maybeBjornRO>Daehlie will do better next time ;-) Seppo, I would think you could order planes and such from US suppliers - don'tknow what your duty and shipping costs would be. Don Burns PS - This past weekend, a cable TV show "Fly Fishing the World"(ESPNchannel) was filmed in Finland - host was fishing for Alantic Salmonandsome huge brown trout. Part 2 this coming weekend. Looks like you've got some great fishing over on your side of the bigpond. from thramer@presys.com Tue Feb 10 10:58:38 1998 0000 Subject: Re: plane waxing David Price wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:21 PMSubject: Re: plane waxing That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing ordusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have siliconin the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony All, The above may sound a bit far fetched, but it took me a year and a halftofigure out what happened to my once perfect flex-coat wraps onplasticrods - my fingers touched my shirt - just an innocent habit -%$#^, Ted G. Ted you might want to look for another problem, the method I use towrappoles uses a old T-shirt to apply preasure to the thread(that has beenwashed with fabric softener). Also have been wiping down stain onwoodworking for 20 years with them as many other shops have also.Dave Price (silicone is very nastie and world have made spots in thefinish) To add another chapter to my by now well known aversion to plane waxing,the solution to the problem of silicone contamination was faced by autobody workers many years ago. They simply contaminate their paint withsilicone. A product with the generic term "fish eye remover" is added in smallquantities to the batch of paint. It is available at suppliers ofprofessional auto paint supplies and is very inexpensive.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Feb 10 11:08:05 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA09070 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 17:39:20 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: planes Seppo Try The Japan Woodworker, I do not have their URL present. They have anonline catalogue, and an ordinary catalogue can be ordered free. They stockHock blades, at around USD 20 I seem to remember. Have a lot ofinterestingtools as well. Best regards Carsten from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Tue Feb 10 12:10:31 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 146 0600 Subject: scraper plane Has anyone seen, ordered, or used the very small scraper plane that isabout 3/4" x 2 3/4" in size with a 1/2" blade from the Japan Woodworkercatalog ? It says they are English made with a high carbon blade. Theylist at about $25. I wondered if this might work for finalplaning(scraping) or would they be just too narrow? Thanks... Jim Kubichek from CALucker@aol.com Tue Feb 10 12:35:44 1998 Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection"ist I always get a chuckle when I hear someone say that they have "the PaulYoungPerfectionist Taper." There is no such thing. I have owned seven different Perfectionists over the years, and they werealldifferent. The 1950's Perfectionists I owned tended to have lighter tips.The late 1960's Perfectionists I call Summer's Perfectionists hadstrongertips and are better rods. I also have qiote an extensive collection of Paul Young Catalogs. ThePerfectionist at one time even came with a 13 ferrule, rather than themostcommon 14 Super Z. It also came with a step down ferrule and one ofthoseFeatherweight Aluminum ferrules made in California way back when. You also have to remember that you measure a rod, you are measuring theinaccuracies that are bound into a rod during the gluing process. I amtryingto say that not all binding machines leave the rod a perfect hex. Iremembercalling Bob Summers back in '82 to tell him that I discovered the "secret"behing the elusive Paul Young Perfectionist. I told Summers that PHY'ssecretwas to make the blank oblong -- not a perfect hex! Summer's laughed in akindway and set me straight. A quick note about the "Famed" Princess taper. You can make a Princessout ofa Perfectionist if you strengthen the butt and add a slight swell ratherthanthe Perfectionist/Midge hinge. But don't bother. If the Princess was suchagreat rod, why did PHY stop at making a half dozen? from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 10 12:36:19 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id NAA26600 for; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:36:15 -0500 Subject: Re: plane waxing A.J.Thramer wrote: David Price wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Date: Monday, February 09, 1998 10:21 PMSubject: Re: plane waxing That's right. Be careful too of using old Tshirts etc when buffing ordusting as if you use a fabric softener in the wash you'll have siliconin the fabric and is pretty well impossible to get rid of. Tony All, The above may sound a bit far fetched, but it took me a year and ahalf tofigure out what happened to my once perfect flex-coat wraps onplasticrods - my fingers touched my shirt - just an innocent habit -%$#^, Ted G. Ted you might want to look for another problem, the method I use towrappoles uses a old T-shirt to apply preasure to the thread(that has beenwashed with fabric softener). Also have been wiping down stain onwoodworking for 20 years with them as many other shops have also.Dave Price (silicone is very nastie and world have made spots in thefinish) To add another chapter to my by now well known aversion to planewaxing,the solution to the problem of silicone contamination was faced by autobody workers many years ago. They simply contaminate their paint withsilicone.A product with the generic term "fish eye remover" is added in smallquantities to the batch of paint. It is available at suppliers ofprofessional auto paint supplies and is very inexpensive.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com Yes fisheye remover is silicone and is added directly to the paint, sameproducts that cabinetmakers use for fisheye problems. But once you getany of it in your shop you can never stop using it. If the paint is'ntsaturated with it and risidual amounts are flying around the sprayroomyou will get fisheye!!. If one has a problem with coating rod blankswith epoxy and having it come off it's more likely to be from oil onones hands then the use of old T-Shirts!!Dave Price (always wipdown a rod with alcohol before epoxy) from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Feb 10 12:52:26 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id MAA05139 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id MAA26046 for ; Tue, 10 Feb1998 Subject: Re: scraper plane I and at least one other person on this list have this littlescraper plane. I think it works OK, but I don't have a Lie-Nielsento compare it with :( I didn't think the blade was that great, so I made a replacement bycutting a strip from a surplus Hock blade. YMMV. Now it whisks offa lacy little shaving. I didn't have any trouble because of the narrow width. Prices vary quite a lot on this plane. I paid $35 from Garrett-Wadewhen it first came out, and now I've seen it for $25 in the Jesada catalog.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: Has anyone seen, ordered, or used the very small scraper plane that isabout 3/4" x 2 3/4" in size with a 1/2" blade from the Japan Woodworkercatalog ? It says they are English made with a high carbon blade. Theylist at about $25. I wondered if this might work for finalplaning(scraping) or would they be just too narrow? Thanks... Jim Kubichek from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Feb 10 12:52:33 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: plane waxing David, Ted, Tony, A. J., All,One of the problems for the automotive companies was anti-perspirant.The Aluminum Hydroxide flakes off and falls down the shirt sleeves tocontaminate the car bodies during final wipe down prior to paintapplication. One companies solution, provide deodorant notanti- perspirant for the employees in this department. (Union problems ifthey didn't). This cured the problem. Also, you will notice in any industrial environment that if they do anypainting, the use of silicones will be highly controlled.Dick Fuhrman from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 10 13:49:13 1998 Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" In a message dated 98-02-10 11:43:57 EST, you write: Hank - like you, I have built hollow bamboo rods. Unlike you, I think I'llduck the issue :>)Cheers,RTyree from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 10 13:49:54 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA15674 for Subject: Re: scraper plane At 12:52 PM 2/10/98 -0600, you wrote:I and at least one other person on this list have this littlescraper plane. I think it works OK, but I don't have a Lie-Nielsento compare it with :( I didn't think the blade was that great, so I made a replacement bycutting a strip from a surplus Hock blade. YMMV. Now it whisks offa lacy little shaving. I didn't have any trouble because of the narrow width. Prices vary quite a lot on this plane. I paid $35 from Garrett-Wadewhen it first came out, and now I've seen it for $25 in the Jesada catalog.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank,I've been on this server for only a short time but I've been fooling withwoodworking and rodbuilding for about 25 years. I've never heard of theJesada Catalog ( and I must get over 50 of them in the mail). Where aretheyand how can I get them to send me a copy. You've already piqued myinterestwith their below-Garrett-Wade prices.ThanksArt Port from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 10 13:58:34 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing In a message dated 2/10/98 8:37:33 AM Pacific Standard Time,tedgodfreys@erols.com writes: The silicone seemed to leave birds eye voids (often attributed toinadequateepoxy mixing - I mix it until I'm half blind) and poor adheshion toplasticblank at edges of wraps. I went through the usual foolishness of gettingnew mixing cups, talking to plastic blank manufacturer, and getting newstuff from flex coat company who also sent me some "special mystery"chemicals to help - didn't. Just swimming in silicone from the closedryerwas the only problem/source. My exposure to silicone was from cleaning my fly line and thenfinishing my rod. Seems like the fly line dressing was almostpure silicone oil. But, it doesn't seem too hard to get rid of. Ijust washed my hands and wiped everything off with alcoholor acetone, depending on if it was plastic or not. Now that Iknow what to avoid just before I start finishing a rod, I don'thave the problem any more. Darryl Hayashida from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 10 14:03:01 1998 0700 Subject: Ni-silver bluing To all, Taking my first pass @ bluing ni-si parts. The questions are: - what do you use to coat and protect the bluing - How many coats do you use - how do you prevent runs in the coating Thanx, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 10 14:03:04 1998 0700 Subject: Was: plane waxing - Now: sole shaping To all, Seems like there are at least 2 solutions to making a plane sole skid alittle better: - Waxing - got it's proponents and detractors - Shaping the plane sole - I "dish in" the soles on my planes leaving onlythe leading edge, the edge directly ahead and behind the blade and the tailedge contacting the work. The sole is sanded down to relieve about 0.005"where contact is not needed. Cuts the plane friction a lot. Used it foryears - started when I got tired from leveling a Stanley 9 1/2. It hadmanufactured "dishes". Next plane was a Record 9 1/2 that I leveledcompletely. The Record was a bitch to push - when the sole was "dishedout"things got a whole lot better.Note: the non- dished parts are about 3/8>3/4" wide depending on location.Ahead of the blade, they are narrower. Give it a shot. Don from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Feb 10 15:15:10 1998 0500 Subject: Silica in bamboo Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is this harmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be worn when planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement and similar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Feb 10 15:24:16 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA157835691; Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:21:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Nickle Silver Blueing After oxidizing I mix about two parts laquer and 1 part laquer thinner. I hold the ferrule or reelseat parts over the mixture and use a brush to put the laquer on in force and allow it to run off back into the mixing cup. If I get any air bubbles I keep applying it until it runs off with a clear coat. It dries fast and protects the ferrules from my oily hands etc. while wrapping. I can't speak for longevity yet, but it appears to be a tough coat that dries hard and thin (no runs, drips, or errors). Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 10 16:13:43 1998 Subject: Re: Ni-silver bluing Don;Krylon clear acrylic with U.V. blocker.Look for it in art supply stores.2light coats works nicely. GEM from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 10 16:38:51 1998 Subject: Re: scraper plane I bought one that fits that description from Garret Wade. It's theberries for final couple of thous. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 10 16:41:08 1998 Subject: Re: scraper plane Frank -I use the L-N down to the last wisps, and then switch to the littleguy. Its easier for me to handle and avoid hitting the forms. Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 10 17:36:48 1998 Subject: Hollow building A couple of years ago, I got interested in building a hollow rod,and I wanted to know just what the advantages were. I wentto the library and read many mechanical engineering books. This is what I found out. If you have a solid rod, and a hollowtube of the same outside diameter the solid rod is going tobe "stiffer" (resist sideways deflection). Where hollowing outa rod has an advantage is in being able to increase the diameterand still lessening the weight. An increase in diameter gives youtremendous gains in "stiffness". I can't remember the exactnumbers, but it was somewhere on the order of an increasein diameter of 25 percent gives you double the stiffness. In reality, though, increasing the diameter in a shorter roddoesn't increase the weight by very much, so going throughthe trouble of hollowing it out isn't worth it. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 10 17:47:10 1998 Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:46:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: planes wugate.wustl.edu idRAA12854 On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Carsten Jorgensen wrote: Seppo Try The Japan Woodworker, I do not have their URL present. They have anonline catalogue, and an ordinary catalogue can be ordered free. TheystockHock blades, at around USD 20 I seem to remember. Have a lot ofinterestingtools as well. Best regards Carsten If you do that, you may consider using a laminated Japaneese iron. These are laminated just like the Japanees chisels and are very good for a keen edge.They cost about the same out here as a Hock. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Feb 10 17:48:26 1998 0700 Subject: Re: [1] Hollow building At 18:22 10/02/98 EST, you wrote: A couple of years ago, I got interested in building a hollow rod,and I wanted to know just what the advantages were. I wentto the library and read many mechanical engineering books. This is what I found out. If you have a solid rod, and a hollowtube of the same outside diameter the solid rod is going tobe "stiffer" (resist sideways deflection). Where hollowing outa rod has an advantage is in being able to increase the diameterand still lessening the weight. An increase in diameter gives youtremendous gains in "stiffness". I can't remember the exactnumbers, but it was somewhere on the order of an increasein diameter of 25 percent gives you double the stiffness. Built two 8' rods - 1 hollow - 1 not - same taper - same culm - hollowonewas softer. Don In reality, though, increasing the diameter in a shorter roddoesn't increase the weight by very much, so going throughthe trouble of hollowing it out isn't worth it. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 10 17:52:40 1998 Wed, 11 Feb 1998 07:52:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Silica in bamboo On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is this harmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be worn when planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement and similar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy It's just the silica found in grass, including the stuff you mow on the weekend. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 10 18:00:00 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Philosophy To List Members,If this letter has to do with me asking JCZimny about his reluctance tohelpme with questions about quad rods I did ask him off list. He took it uponhimself to put it on list(which I found inappropriate) since I asked him offlist. My answer to his comments on list were also answered off list (astheyshould have been).I wasn't trying to learn how to build quads so I could horn in on hisbusinessI was just curious as to the complexities of building one over a hex rodandthought I might try to build one for myself. I also was thinking aboutaddingone of JC's rods to my collection as I looked at his webpage and think hisrods are awesome. I also received his brochure so I could decide whichone Iwanted and was planning on buying it at Southfield next month. I neverbuysomething as expensive as a bamboo rod unless I know something aboutthecompany or the maker and product. Heck I have asked a million questionstothe Demarests and Andy Royer about bamboo before I am going to buy anyfromthem and the same goes for forms I have asked a million questions to themakers before I purchased my forms because I only want to do it once. IfJCwas upset I guess I can only say I am sorry for that and I hope that no oneelse takes offense to mine or anybody elses questions. If it wasn't forguyslike Wayne and Garrison and Kreider we would all be out here stumblingaroundtrying to figure this out. Whenever someone asks me about how to dosomethingwhen it comes to building guns or how to tie salmon flies I am more thanpleased to help them and as a matter of fact it makes me feel real proudthatthey think enough of my work to consider me as a source of knowledgethat theycan glean something from. So JC I want to tell you ( on list ) that I amsorry that I was misunderstood as to my intentions about the QUAD ROD.Bret from thramer@presys.com Tue Feb 10 19:07:30 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Silica in bamboo andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is thisharmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be wornwhen planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement andsimilar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy I used to have a reccuring respitory problem until I started to use adust mask when sanding. No problem since.A.J.Thramer from jczimny@dol.net Tue Feb 10 21:53:43 1998 Subject: Re: Ni-silver bluing Don Andersen wrote: To all, Taking my first pass @ bluing ni-si parts. The questions are: - what do you use to coat and protect the bluing - How many coats do you use - how do you prevent runs in the coating Thanx, DonSpray with Artist's type UV resistant Acrylic Lacquer such asGrumbacher's. One coat is all that's needed. Don't worry about runs.There probably won't be any at all.John from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 10 23:40:51 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 11Feb 1998 00:41:48 +0000 Subject: Splitting.... I thought I would bring up a topic I have not seen since I began watching. Suppose you are splitting a culm (nodeless) for a 8' 5-6 wt. How wide would you split the butt sections? I botched this once and would like to get it right without ruining to many more culms...hehe. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 10 23:42:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Young "The Perfection" Richard,Nice to hear from you-very tactfull, but being bullheaded I like to stirthe pot occasionally.Hope to see you at Grayrock.Regards,Hank. from brookside.rod@juno.com Wed Feb 11 05:07:11 1998 21:05:46 EST Subject: Re: small scraper plane On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:07:56 -0600 jim_kubichek@s- hamilton.k12.ia.uswrites:Has anyone seen, ordered, or used the very small scraper plane that isabout 3/4" x 2 3/4" in size with a 1/2" bladeJim Kubichek A while back I built a small scraper plane modeled after my LN. .750wide blades made from files; body about 1.250 wide and 2.5 long fromsilicon bronze. After scraping strips most of the way to finish thelittle scraper permits much better control due to its light weight. Thesmall size fits the hand well and makes it easy to "drive". Works forme! Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Wed Feb 11 05:44:01 1998 Subject: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk FAA08966 I recently bought some red and black mixed Elephant silk from a tackleshopin Carlisle in the U.K and was very pleased with the resulting finish on mylatest rod. When I contacted the shop for further supplies I was told thatthe silk I bought was the last they had and was very old stock, I wonderdoes anyone know where I could obtain any more of this old silk, or isthere a manufacturer producing multi-coloured whipping silk today. Thank in advance Mick. Woodruff. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Feb 11 07:28:38 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Silica in bamboo I guess that makes sense...it _is_ a plant afterall...thanks for the responses...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Silica in bamboo Author: at tcpgate On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is this harmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be worn when planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement and similar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy It's just the silica found in grass, including the stuff you mow on the weekend. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 08:35:54 1998 1997)) id862565A8.004FD410 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:31:56 -0600 Subject: Re: Hollow building As it turns out, stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of thediameter of a cylinder. Thus, the tremendous gains in stiffness asdiameteris increased that Darryl speaks of. Note that in the case of a hollow rod,stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of the outer diameter minusthe fourth power of the inner diameter. Best regards,Ed Estlow SalarFly@aol.com on 02/10/98 05:22:32 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Hollow building A couple of years ago, I got interested in building a hollow rod,and I wanted to know just what the advantages were. I wentto the library and read many mechanical engineering books.This is what I found out. If you have a solid rod, and a hollowtube of the same outside diameter the solid rod is going tobe "stiffer" (resist sideways deflection). Where hollowing outa rod has an advantage is in being able to increase the diameterand still lessening the weight. An increase in diameter gives youtremendous gains in "stiffness". I can't remember the exactnumbers, but it was somewhere on the order of an increasein diameter of 25 percent gives you double the stiffness.In reality, though, increasing the diameter in a shorter roddoesn't increase the weight by very much, so going throughthe trouble of hollowing it out isn't worth it.Darryl Hayashida from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Feb 11 08:46:10 1998 Subject: Re: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk Mick;Check with Belvoirdale.He had a stock of old elephant silk.He's listed onthe rodmakers under parts and supplies. George from harry37@epix.net Wed Feb 11 08:47:23 1998 JAA04500 Subject: Re: Silica in bamboo A.J.Thramer wrote: andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Someone recently mentioned that bamboo contains silica...is thisharmful (e.g. in the way asbestos might be)? Should a mask be wornwhen planing bamboo? I seem to recall that silica is in cement andsimilar stuff that carries warnings about inhalation...Andy I used to have a reccuring respitory problem until I started to use adust mask when sanding. No problem since.A.J.Thramer Could just be a bit of an allergy--I sneeze when I sand pine, but notwith cherry Greg Kuntz from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Wed Feb 11 08:48:54 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Wed, 11 Feb 98 09:47:41 EST Subject: Re: Philosophy You're a gentleman Bret. Well said. When it comes right down to it, Iactually agree with JCZ's point, just a bit too heavy handed. As a firsttime rod builder, I'm glad for the help from this list and the two bks--oldand new testament, but don't tell me all. You can't of course. I'm buzy making every possible mistake imaginable, hopefully I won't makethem quite as easily next time. All of this is packaged in equal measuresof surprise and frustration and I hardly know where one begins and theother ends, and maybe that's not so important to know. Last night I was planning a butt strip. The angle was off, one side longerthan the other. Try as I might, it kept getting worse even as a cocked theplane off to one side to enforce a correction. I was inches away fromtrashing the strip into a million shattering pieces. All my selfmonitoring tricks were falling away (like "take your time" "wait for thesolution" "trust in the cane force" etc.). I turned over the plane. Theblade was cockeyed. Never even occured to me to look earlier and itseemedalmost accidental to discover this. I finished the strip. It's the mostbeautiful of all. So don't tell me all. I want to be up there in thefront of the bus, taking all those bugs in the windshield and wiping theslate clean on my own terms. --RM, on the edge of the bus. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 08:54:19 1998 1997)) id862565A8.00518309 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:50:19 -0600 Subject: Re: Philosophy Eloquently stated, Bret. Best regards,-Ed Estlow Grhghlndr@aol.com on 02/10/98 05:47:04 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Philosophy To List Members,If this letter has to do with me asking JCZimny about his reluctance tohelpme with questions about quad rods I did ask him off list. He took it uponhimself to put it on list(which I found inappropriate) since I asked himofflist. My answer to his comments on list were also answered off list (astheyshould have been).I wasn't trying to learn how to build quads so I could horn in on hisbusinessI was just curious as to the complexities of building one over a hex rodandthought I might try to build one for myself. I also was thinking aboutaddingone of JC's rods to my collection as I looked at his webpage and think hisrods are awesome. I also received his brochure so I could decide whichoneIwanted and was planning on buying it at Southfield next month. I neverbuysomething as expensive as a bamboo rod unless I know something aboutthecompany or the maker and product. Heck I have asked a million questionstothe Demarests and Andy Royer about bamboo before I am going to buy anyfromthem and the same goes for forms I have asked a million questions to themakers before I purchased my forms because I only want to do it once. IfJCwas upset I guess I can only say I am sorry for that and I hope that no oneelse takes offense to mine or anybody elses questions. If it wasn't forguyslike Wayne and Garrison and Kreider we would all be out here stumblingaroundtrying to figure this out. Whenever someone asks me about how to dosomethingwhen it comes to building guns or how to tie salmon flies I am more thanpleased to help them and as a matter of fact it makes me feel real proudthatthey think enough of my work to consider me as a source of knowledgethattheycan glean something from. So JC I want to tell you ( on list ) that I amsorry that I was misunderstood as to my intentions about the QUAD ROD.Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 11 09:14:38 1998 Subject: RE:Elephant Rod Whipping Silk RO>I recently bought some red and black mixed Elephant silk from a tackleshopRO>in Carlisle in the U.K and was very pleased with the resulting finish onmyRO>latest rod. When I contacted the shop for further supplies I was toldthatRO>the silk I bought was the last they had and was very old stock, IwonderRO>does anyone know where I could obtain any more of this old silk, or isRO>there a manufacturer producing multi-coloured whipping silk today. RO>Thank in advance Mick. Woodruff. Mike, Belvoirdale purchased all the remaining Elephant thread stock and isselling it. Their url (direct to the thread page) is:http://www.belvoirdale.com/elephant.html Don Burns from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 11 09:28:21 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA03740 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id JAA23320 for ; Wed, 11 Feb1998 Subject: Re: scraper plane Jesada is a relatively new maker of router bits and some other cuttingtools. Their products have received good reviews. Their cataloghas mostly their stuff and a few other things. You can reach thenonline at www.jesada.com or at 800-531-5559.--Frank On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Art Port wrote: Frank,I've been on this server for only a short time but I've been fooling withwoodworking and rodbuilding for about 25 years. I've never heard of theJesada Catalog ( and I must get over 50 of them in the mail). Where aretheyand how can I get them to send me a copy. You've already piqued myinterestwith their below-Garrett-Wade prices.ThanksArt Port from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Feb 11 09:57:44 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Half-radius router bits Can anyone tell me, without lots of trouble, what size half radius orfingernail bit to use in forming the reel seat fillers? I know I couldgo look it up, but the books are at home, and the catalogs are here, andI'm just plain impatient! Also, any suggestions on which brand to buy?I see lots of them in different woodworking catalogs. Thanks, and sorry to be so lazy!Harry Boyd from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 11 11:33:26 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 6:43:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,eestlow@srminc.com writes: As it turns out, stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of thediameter of a cylinder. Thus, the tremendous gains in stiffness asdiameteris increased that Darryl speaks of. Note that in the case of a hollow rod,stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of the outer diameterminusthe fourth power of the inner diameter. Thank you Ed! I always seem to remember the concept, but forgetthe details. Thanks to you I will remember stress curves are inounces per square inch, and stiffness is proportional to the 4thpower of diameter. Darryl Hayashida from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Feb 11 12:00:53 1998 +0100 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id SAA27660 for; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:49:12 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" ----------Sir D wrote I made a few hollow rods about two years ago. The difference isn'thardly noticeable for rods less than 8 ft. long, but, hollowing a roddoes make a rod flex more with the same weight, if that's what youmean by softer. The difference is in your perception of what's happening when you are casting it. With less weight as you areswinging it back and forth in a cast it seems as if the rod werestiffer. I would look at hollowing a rod longer than 8 ft., but it'snot worth the trouble on rods shorter than that. Darryl Hayashida Sir D Imagine removing lets say 25% of the weight of the rod. We agree that itwill feel more steely, as less weight accelerated and decellerated meansless demand of power, as inflicted by the arm casting the rod. OK, so therod is actually softer, but this is a static phenomena. Less weight meansfaster accelleration and decelleration for the same amount of power.We'retalking replacing cane with flyline, so You might say that to some degreewe have the line thrown "for free". Discussing things like this is stretching my vocabulary to the limit (andbeyond) but I hope to have made my point, which BTW is purelyspeculative. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from thramer@presys.com Wed Feb 11 12:01:52 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk MICK WOODRUFF wrote: I recently bought some red and black mixed Elephant silk from a tackleshopin Carlisle in the U.K and was very pleased with the resulting finish onmylatest rod. When I contacted the shop for further supplies I was told thatthe silk I bought was the last they had and was very old stock, I wonderdoes anyone know where I could obtain any more of this old silk, or isthere a manufacturer producing multi-coloured whipping silk today. Thank in advance Mick. Woodruff.Belvoirdale still has some of the red/black variegated. They have a webpage but I don't know the address.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Wed Feb 11 12:02:00 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Splitting.... Jon Lintvet wrote: I thought I would bring up a topic I have not seen since I beganwatching. Suppose you are splitting a culm (nodeless) for a 8' 5-6wt. How wide would you split the butt sections? I botched this onceand would like to get it right without ruining to many moreculms...hehe. Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781The allowance you add will vary with the experience of the splitter.Safe would be .100". With practice you can split it .040" overA.J.Thramer from rennygr@ibm.net Wed Feb 11 12:12:21 1998 out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA64186 for; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:12:18 GMT Subject: Re: Hollow building A couple of hopefully, not too naive questions: Isn't the material being removed the pith, which would be considerablylessdensethan the exterior bamboo? If so, wouldn't stiffness be impacted to alesserdegree than with a higher density throughout? Secondly, doesn't the excess glue tend to fill the removed interior space? Iwould surmise that any extruded glue might tend to minimize any weightsavingsgains. What impact might any interior glue have on stiffness & could thispartially explain the discrepancy some folks noted between perceivedstiffness(casting) & theoretical stiffness (equation)? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/11/98 6:43:28 AM Pacific Standard Time,eestlow@srminc.com writes: As it turns out, stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of thediameter of a cylinder. Thus, the tremendous gains in stiffness asdiameteris increased that Darryl speaks of. Note that in the case of a hollowrod,stiffness is proportional to the fourth power of the outer diameterminusthe fourth power of the inner diameter. Thank you Ed! I always seem to remember the concept, but forgetthe details. Thanks to you I will remember stress curves are inounces per square inch, and stiffness is proportional to the 4thpower of diameter. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Feb 11 12:33:16 1998 Subject: Re: Philosophy In a message dated 98-02-11 09:55:05 EST, Robert Milardo writes: This may be common knowledge, but it's relatively easy to set up a planeironaccurately. If you have a magnetic base on your dial indicator, just get a flat point( from the same source as your 60-degree point) and keep adjusting untilthecuting edge is level. This will give you the cutting depth at the sametime. Since I realize that many rodmakers will have cut a relief groove or gluedbrass shims to the soles of their planes, a simple depth mic will handlethis(since the whole idea is to have the shims slightly proud of the cuttingedge. This is probably covered in the literature, so forgive me if I'm going over aploughed field, but it takes a lifetime to develop the kind of touch whichmakes the above processes unnecessary and many of us have been applyingourfingertips to different ends. You know what I mean. Davy from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 12:41:47 1998 1997)) id862565A8.00665388 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 12:37:40 -0600 Subject: Hollow-build Dynamics Not to step on Darryl's toes in responding to this, but interestingspeculation, Carsten. I'm not sure I agree with your comment that thesoftness is a static phenomenon, though. The force that loads (bends) a rodis equal to the mass of the rod times the acceleration it experiences:F=MxA. (It's a bit more complicated, what with how much of the rod shouldbe used to determine mass being accelerated and bent, but you get the I like the rest of your arguement about more loading and unloading, viaacceleration, for the same power input. At the great risk of putting wordsin Darryl's mouth, I believe he has put forth the arguement that thehollow-built rod is lighter and takes less force to load, and thus "feels"stiffer even when it isn't. (Darryl, please feel free to correct me on thispoint.) As for throwing the line for free, when gasoline goes from $1.199 pergallon to $1.099 per gallon, and I fill up my car, did I get some for free?Bears thinking about! Best regards,Ed Estlow "Carsten J?rgensen" on 02/11/98 11:46:42 AM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Young "The Perfection" ----------Sir D wroteI made a few hollow rods about two years ago. The difference isn'thardly noticeable for rods less than 8 ft. long, but, hollowing a roddoes make a rod flex more with the same weight, if that's what youmean by softer. The difference is in your perception of what'shappening when you are casting it. With less weight as you areswinging it back and forth in a cast it seems as if the rod werestiffer. I would look at hollowing a rod longer than 8 ft., but it'snot worth the trouble on rods shorter than that. Darryl HayashidaSir DImagine removing lets say 25% of the weight of the rod. We agree that itwill feel more steely, as less weight accelerated and decellerated meansless demand of power, as inflicted by the arm casting the rod. OK, so therod is actually softer, but this is a static phenomena. Less weight meansfaster accelleration and decelleration for the same amount ofpower.We?retalking replacing cane with flyline, so You might say that to some degreewe have the line thrown "for free".Discussing things like this is stretching my vocabulary to the limit (andbeyond) but I hope to have made my point, which BTW is purelyspeculative.Best regardsCarsten Jorgensen from brookside.rod@juno.com Wed Feb 11 13:18:06 1998 06:10:46 EST Subject: Re: small scraper plane On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:07:56 -0600 jim_kubichek@s- hamilton.k12.ia.uswrites:Has anyone seen, ordered, or used the very small scraper plane that isabout 3/4" x 2 3/4" in size with a 1/2" bladeJim Kubichek Jim and the list; A while back I built a small scraper plane modeled after my LN. .750wide blades made from files; body about 1.250 wide and 2.5 long fromsilicon bronze. After scraping strips most of the way to finish thelittle scraper permits much better control due to its light weight. Thesmall size fits the hand well and makes it easy to "drive". Works forme! Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 11 13:22:07 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics In a message dated 2/11/98 10:48:11 AM Pacific Standard Time,eestlow@srminc.com writes: Not to step on Darryl's toes in responding to this, but interesting No problem there! I'm not a mechanical engineer, and I'm sureyour answers will make more sense than mine. In fact if youwould be so kind as to take over this thread, I'm sure I'll learn something. Darryl Hayashida from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 11 13:54:50 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA08087 for Subject: Re: scraper plane At 09:28 AM 2/11/98 -0600, you wrote:Jesada is a relatively new maker of router bits and some other cuttingtools. Their products have received good reviews. Their cataloghas mostly their stuff and a few other things. You can reach thenonline at www.jesada.com or at 800-531-5559.--Frank On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, Art Port wrote: Frank,I've been on this server for only a short time but I've been fooling withwoodworking and rodbuilding for about 25 years. I've never heard of theJesada Catalog ( and I must get over 50 of them in the mail). Where aretheyand how can I get them to send me a copy. You've already piqued myinterestwith their below-Garrett-Wade prices.ThanksArt Port Frank,Thanks for the response.Art from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 11 13:58:00 1998 Subject: RE:Hollow-build Dynamics RO>Not to step on Darryl's toes in responding to this, but interestingRO>speculation, Carsten. I'm not sure I agree with your comment that theRO>softness is a static phenomenon, though. The force that loads (bends) arodRO>is equal to the mass of the rod times the acceleration it experiences:RO>F=MxA. (It's a bit more complicated, what with how much of the rodshouldRO>be used to determine mass being accelerated and bent, but you get theRO>idea.) Acceleration, and velocity for that matter, is definitely dynamic. RO>I like the rest of your arguement about more loading and unloading, viaRO>acceleration, for the same power input. At the great risk of puttingwordsRO>in Darryl's mouth, I believe he has put forth the arguement that theRO>hollow-built rod is lighter and takes less force to load, and thus"feels"RO>stiffer even when it isn't. (Darryl, please feel free to correct me onthisRO>point.) What also loads the rod is the motion of the rod through the air. Anydiscussion of loading without considering the cross-sectional area aspresented to the air will be flawed. Place a rod in a vice (tip up) andpull some fly line out and behind the rod until the rod is bent - letgo. The flyline will NOT go much beyond the rod. Eighty-three percent of the the energy of a cast was proven, byexperiment, to come from the motion of the rod, while only 17% came from deflection of the rod itself. Weight in the tip adds to the abilityof a rod to cast a line, bamboo excells in this compared to graphite. Anexperiment was done with a graphite rod by adding lead to the tip andobserving the effect to the action. I believe this is why some people might think the hollow rod was faster. See "The New American Trout Fishing" by John Merwin, Section II "TheTools", Chapter 9 for more details. Makes for darn good reading. All IMHO, Don Burns from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 14:35:33 1998 1997)) id862565A8.0070B7A9 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 14:31:10 -0600 Subject: RE:Hollow-build Dynamics Don makes an excellent point. The rod and line movement through spacerepresents momentum (speed times mass) and this is what Don's 83% isfrom.One of Newton's Laws (on inertia) says an object in motion tends to stayinmotion unless influenced by outside forces (like friction or gravity).Higher line speed casts the line further. I would think weight in the tip is about momentum transfer - from the rodto the line - interesting. Best regards,Ed Estlow What also loads the rod is the motion of the rod through the air. Anydiscussion of loading without considering the cross-sectional area aspresented to the air will be flawed. Place a rod in a vice (tip up) andpull some fly line out and behind the rod until the rod is bent - letgo. The flyline will NOT go much beyond the rod.Eighty-three percent of the the energy of a cast was proven, byexperiment, to come from the motion of the rod, while only 17% came from deflection of the rod itself. Weight in the tip adds to the abilityof a rod to cast a line, bamboo excells in this compared to graphite. Anexperiment was done with a graphite rod by adding lead to the tip andobserving the effect to the action.I believe this is why some people might think the hollow rod was faster.See "The New American Trout Fishing" by John Merwin, Section II "TheTools", Chapter 9 for more details.Makes for darn good reading.All IMHO,Don Burns from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Feb 11 15:10:06 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing ---risidual amounts are flying around the sprayroomyou will get fisheye!!. If one has a problem with coating rod blankswith epoxy and having it come off it's more likely to be from oil onones hands then the use of old T-Shirts!!Dave Price (always wipdown a rod with alcohol before epoxy) Dave, Just simple wrapping/finishing - no spray. Tried wiping blanks with acouple kinds of alcohol also tried acetone. I take a long time to wrap rods(even plastic blanks). Just kept my hands off my shirt (partly reaching forcigarettes - I get up, I don't smoke in the house) and the problemdisappeared. Ted G. from tball@mail.portup.com Wed Feb 11 15:25:32 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Half-radius router bits Harry, the 5/8'' is what Wayne uses. The order #583 is the one for thefingernail bit from MLCS at 1-800-533-9298. Their address is MLCSLTD. PO Box 4053 C-18 Rydal, PA 19046Good Luck Tom in Trout Lake from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 11 15:36:48 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 7:05:15 PM, you wrote: You are right that filling the blank with glue would negate the effect ofhollowing, but it is possible to avoid the problem with proper technique. Idon't think that there is any discrepancy in Carsten's observation andDarryland Don Anderson's experience. Remember that Carsten was merely flexinganunfinished rod. I would expect a hollow built rod to recover faster withoutaline load on it because of the lower weight. When load is applied I wouldexpect the solid rod to bear up better. I can't explain that mathematically,it's based on a little bit of experience. Ed? from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Feb 11 16:07:50 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA04115 for Subject: Re: Philosophy At 10:52 AM 2/11/98, you wrote:You're a gentleman Bret. Well said. When it comes right down to it, Iactually agree with JCZ's point, just a bit too heavy handed. As a firsttime rod builder, I'm glad for the help from this list and the two bks--oldand new testament, but don't tell me all. You can't of course. Yes, and we all come here to drink up ideas and techniques. I expect thatonce in a while the real pros like JCZ find something useful here. I hopethat when I build my first rod that it is my own, but there is no way inhell I could do it without the kind of help available from the rod makerson this list. Thanks,Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 11 16:08:50 1998 1997)) id862565A8.007945C6 ; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 16:04:37 -0600 Subject: Re: Hollow building I should think that a hollow rod would recover faster due to the lowermass- less inertia. But this would depend upon how much of the rod was hollow-2/3, 1/2 - and where. Real quickly, this gets into spring constants andnatural frequencies (think tuning fork) of the rod, which in turn arefunctions of the cross sectional shape, area, and their distribution alongthe rod. I'd have to go home and check my references, but I believe ahollow rod would have a higher natural frequency than a solid rod of thesame exterior dimensions. That would equate to recovering faster. (Another, perhaps better, way to think of natural frequency is to imagineholding the rod grip in a vise and pulling on the tip latterally, thenreleasing. The rate, in cycles per second, at which the tip "whips" oroscillates back and forth is the natural frequency. The more cycles persecond, the higher the natural frequency.) With respect to bearing up better, a solid rod has more material and,Winston's hollowing method notwithstanding, more glue surface, thusmoredurable? Best regards,-Ed Estlow TSmithwick@aol.com on 02/11/98 03:33:57 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 7:05:15 PM, you wrote: You are right that filling the blank with glue would negate the effect ofhollowing, but it is possible to avoid the problem with proper technique. Idon't think that there is any discrepancy in Carsten's observation andDarryland Don Anderson's experience. Remember that Carsten was merely flexinganunfinished rod. I would expect a hollow built rod to recover faster withoutaline load on it because of the lower weight. When load is applied I wouldexpect the solid rod to bear up better. I can't explain thatmathematically,it's based on a little bit of experience. Ed? from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 11 16:31:32 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 11:05:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,rennygr@ibm.netwrites: Isn't the material being removed the pith, which would be considerablyless densethan the exterior bamboo? If so, wouldn't stiffness be impacted to alesserdegree than with a higher density throughout? I keep on mentioning short rods vs. longer rods, and here I should interjectrods made for lighter wt. lines and heavier wt. lines. Usually in a rodshorterthan 8ft. for a line lighter than 6 wt. all of the diameter is power fiber,evendown in the handle. This is the reason I stipulated shorter rods in my previous posts. In a 9 ft. or 8 wt. rod the rod might contain some pith, orlight concentration of power fiber, and I could see a benefit in removingit. Secondly, doesn't the excess glue tend to fill the removed interiorspace? Iwould surmise that any extruded glue might tend to minimize anyweight savingsgains. What impact might any interior glue have on stiffness & couldthispartially explain the discrepancy some folks noted between perceived stiffness(casting) & theoretical stiffness (equation)? There are different ways of making hollow rods, but to take care of thisproblem I planed a small bit of the inside apex where the ferruleswent to leave a small hole. Between the ferrules I planed away abouthalf the strip depth. After glue up, I ran a wire through the holes, drawingit through the blank in one direction, wiping the glue off the wire, runningit through again, etc. I then held it vertically and blew air through it fromtop to bottom, and quite a bit of glue came out. I didn't get it all out,because after the glue dried the bottom hole was plugged, but I'mconfident I got most of the glue out. Darryl Hayashida from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Feb 11 16:44:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/11/98 10:09:55 PM, you wrote: Ed - There is no doubt at all that a solid rod is more durable. What I wastrying to suggest is that a solid rod would be faster than a similar hollowrod when actual casting is involved, as opposed to merely flexing withoutlineload. Darryl and Don seem to have found this to be true, and my ownlimitedexperience also suggests it. As you point out, there are a lot of potentialvariables. I also suspect that if a taper gets too thick, weight wouldoverwhelm the solid rod, and the hollow rod would have an advantage. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 11 17:18:36 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 11Feb 1998 18:19:16 +0000 Subject: Acetone or Denatured? Just wanted to make sure there is nothing wrong with wiping a rod down before dipping with acetone or denatured alcohol. It's about that time again (thank god)! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 11 17:32:15 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id SAA10373 for; Wed, 11 Feb 1998 18:32:12 -0500 Subject: Re: plane waxing Ted Godfrey wrote: ---risidual amounts are flying around the sprayroomyou will get fisheye!!. If one has a problem with coating rod blankswith epoxy and having it come off it's more likely to be from oil onones hands then the use of old T-Shirts!!Dave Price (always wipdown a rod with alcohol before epoxy) Dave, Just simple wrapping/finishing - no spray. Tried wiping blanks with acouple kinds of alcohol also tried acetone. I take a long time to wraprods(even plastic blanks). Just kept my hands off my shirt (partly reachingforcigarettes - I get up, I don't smoke in the house) and the problemdisappeared. Ted G. Ted I find it what your saying hard to beleave, think of the thousandsand thousands of people whiping there sweaty pigies on therejeans,shirts just to get the oils off there hands before they handlemillions of objects before painting and you the only one I've heard ofthis happening to!!!!.Dave Price from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 11 17:46:07 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:45:37 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics As for throwing the line for free, when gasoline goes from $1.199 pergallon to $1.099 per gallon, and I fill up my car, did I get some for free?Bears thinking about! Best regards,Ed Estlow Out here we pay 80 cents per litre for fuel ($3.20 per gal). At 29 cents per litre your fuel *is* free! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 11 17:55:16 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:55:08 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow building On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: You are right that filling the blank with glue would negate the effect ofhollowing, but it is possible to avoid the problem with proper technique.Idon't think that there is any discrepancy in Carsten's observation andDarryland Don Anderson's experience. Remember that Carsten was merelyflexing anunfinished rod. I would expect a hollow built rod to recover fasterwithout aline load on it because of the lower weight. When load is applied I wouldexpect the solid rod to bear up better. I can't explain thatmathematically,it's based on a little bit of experience. Ed? Has anybody used a hexigraph rod? Never seen one and untill now never thought much about them but as these are basicaly solid graphite rods, not graphite throughout as they have foam sandwich construction are these stiffer then hollow graphite rods? from what I'm told they have weight problem. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Feb 11 18:02:24 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id AAA21941 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:45:00 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics Have just arrived back from a meeting in my fishing club. To the questionof more or less stifness in a hollow built rod I was fed these formulas.Hope they make sense: In order to make it fairly easy, we'll pretend the rod is round. For anexample we'll calculate on an outer diameter of 0,3" for both ordinary rodand hollow built rod. Were lokking for the percentage difference inresistence and the percentage in loss of weight. I have tried to translateas best as I can, so here it comes: D = outer diameter of both rods= 0,3"d = inner diameter of hollow rod=0,14"t= thickness of wall in hollowbuilt rod=0,08" the above are given measures W= moment of resistenceA= surface area of cane the above are what were looking for Please note: D2 means DxD, D3 means DxDxD and so on Ordinary rod A=(3,14:4) x D2 equals: 0,07065 sq.inch. W = (3,14:32) x D3 equals 0,00265 Hollow built rod A: (3,14:4) x(D2 - d2) equals 0,05526, giving a reduction in area, andtherefor weight, of some 22 percent at this specific point. W=(3,14:32) x ((D4 - d4) : D) equals 0,002524 giving a reduction instiffnes of some 5% Assuming my figures are correct, we can deduct the following: The reduction in stiffnes is minimal in this example. Relating to rods, wehave calculated on somewhere in the butt, being the place in the rod,wheremost cane has been removed, therefore being the exact spot, where thedifference in stifness and weightloss are the greatest. The further up therod we go, the smaller the weightloss and difference in stiffnes. This is a static calculation. What is not included is the influence, lackof weight has on the necessary power induced into the rod in order tomakego forwards and backwards. OK, the rod is softer by some 5%, but theweightloss is some 22%. Therefore some 17% less power is necessary inroderto make the rod perform the same movements. What I am not saying is that this particular hollowbuilt rod is 17% stifferthan the org. rod. My point is, based on the above calculations, thathollow built rods may be softer, static measured, but are more steely anddemand less power from the fisherman in order to perform the task ofthrowing a given line a given distance. OK all of You still hanging on, this was what I was instructed to say. Allthe mathematics are from an engineer, the deductions are mine. Sorry tohave used all this bandwith, but this might be of interest to some. Now fire away if You are still awake. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 11 18:04:36 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:04:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: plane waxing On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, David Price wrote: Ted Godfrey wrote: ---risidual amounts are flying around the sprayroomyou will get fisheye!!. If one has a problem with coating rod blankswith epoxy and having it come off it's more likely to be from oil onones hands then the use of old T-Shirts!!Dave Price (always wipdown a rod with alcohol before epoxy) Dave, Just simple wrapping/finishing - no spray. Tried wiping blanks with acouple kinds of alcohol also tried acetone. I take a long time to wraprods(even plastic blanks). Just kept my hands off my shirt (partly reachingforcigarettes - I get up, I don't smoke in the house) and the problemdisappeared. Ted G. Ted I find it what your saying hard to beleave, think of the thousandsand thousands of people whiping there sweaty pigies on therejeans,shirts just to get the oils off there hands before they handlemillions of objects before painting and you the only one I've heard ofthis happening to!!!!.Dave Price Not so. Harking once again bact to the days when I earned an honest living as a boat builder you *never* dusted down a freshly sanded deck that was about to be bright finished with an old item of clothing for the very reason you would develop a blotchy finish. On a $2mill boat that is not good form.I'm certain there are gizillions of people doing just that and deciding the poor results are due to atmospherics at the time the finish was applied and a fair share would be that but not all. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Feb 11 18:17:03 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building Tony I tried one of them last weekend at the Seattle sportsman's show and Iwouldn't characterize it as being a bit fast. I mean, I realize they do makedifferent models and all, but I wasn't impressed at all. Davy PS I thought it was kind of ugly, too. from longroge@isu.edu Wed Feb 11 18:27:39 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building I also suspect that if a taper gets too thick, weight wouldoverwhelm the solid rod, and the hollow rod would have an advantage. I'm interested in eventually building bamboo spey rods (after I get someexperience with smaller rods), and I'm wondering if hollow butt sections could bemadestiff enough. I'm also wondering how I can get consistent thickness andstiffness foreach spline when I'm not planing them to an equilaterally triangularcross-section. Roger from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 11 18:29:13 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics You may want to look at what Ed Marinaro said about the pith in his book Inthe Ring of the Rise. He talked about the pith having a cushoning effect. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Carsten Jorgensen Subject: Re: Hollow-build DynamicsDate: Wednesday, February 11, 1998 3:42 PM Have just arrived back from a meeting in my fishing club. To the questionof more or less stifness in a hollow built rod I was fed these formulas.Hope they make sense: In order to make it fairly easy, we'll pretend the rod is round. For anexample we'll calculate on an outer diameter of 0,3" for both ordinaryrodand hollow built rod. Were lokking for the percentage difference inresistence and the percentage in loss of weight. I have tried totranslateas best as I can, so here it comes: D = outer diameter of both rods= 0,3"d = inner diameter of hollow rod=0,14"t= thickness of wall in hollowbuilt rod=0,08" the above are given measures W= moment of resistenceA= surface area of cane the above are what were looking for Please note: D2 means DxD, D3 means DxDxD and so on Ordinary rod A=(3,14:4) x D2 equals: 0,07065 sq.inch. W = (3,14:32) x D3 equals 0,00265 Hollow built rod A: (3,14:4) x(D2 - d2) equals 0,05526, giving a reduction in area, andtherefor weight, of some 22 percent at this specific point. W=(3,14:32) x ((D4 - d4) : D) equals 0,002524 giving a reduction instiffnes of some 5% Assuming my figures are correct, we can deduct the following: The reduction in stiffnes is minimal in this example. Relating to rods,wehave calculated on somewhere in the butt, being the place in the rod,wheremost cane has been removed, therefore being the exact spot, where thedifference in stifness and weightloss are the greatest. The further uptherod we go, the smaller the weightloss and difference in stiffnes. This is a static calculation. What is not included is the influence, lackof weight has on the necessary power induced into the rod in order tomakego forwards and backwards. OK, the rod is softer by some 5%, but theweightloss is some 22%. Therefore some 17% less power is necessary inroderto make the rod perform the same movements. What I am not saying is that this particular hollowbuilt rod is 17%stifferthan the org. rod. My point is, based on the above calculations, thathollow built rods may be softer, static measured, but are more steelyanddemand less power from the fisherman in order to perform the task ofthrowing a given line a given distance. OK all of You still hanging on, this was what I was instructed to say.Allthe mathematics are from an engineer, the deductions are mine. Sorry tohave used all this bandwith, but this might be of interest to some. Now fire away if You are still awake. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Wed Feb 11 18:30:10 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id BAA22852 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 01:03:10 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics ----------Ed wrote: from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 11 18:51:31 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id SAA19036 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id SAA31194 for ; Wed, 11 Feb1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics And at the opposite end of the spectrum would be a double-built rod,which would be all dense power fibers and no pith. I'm thinking oftrying one someday, to utilize some of the thin, light culms I gotlast summer. I suppose that the denser the power fibers, the more the cane weighs.Does anyone know this for a fact? ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Robert Clarke wrote: You may want to look at what Ed Marinaro said about the pith in his bookInthe Ring of the Rise. He talked about the pith having a cushoning effect. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from DRinker370@aol.com Wed Feb 11 19:24:49 1998 Subject: Lathes help I need a bit of clarification . If a lathe has a ten inch bed length can itbe used for turning a cork grip or do I have to move up to a larger bed size.Thanks Dave. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Feb 11 19:37:55 1998 Subject: Re: Ni-silver bluing Don,After oxidizing the N/S, I coat the part with one coat of Stay-Bright. This product dries fast, is hard and has a UV protection to help against fading. I buy Stay-Bright from Constantiens the wood working company. You can also find it at some hardware stores and paint stores.This isgood stuff. Dave LeClair from jfoster@gte.net Wed Feb 11 19:41:49 1998 Subject: web Hi Group Just added Joe Arguello's site to the makers page, it's a pretty trickpage, you should check it out...also has some great process pictures forthe new makers.. Jerry from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Feb 11 20:02:00 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Donald,The nine inches is over the bed. When you buy a lathe, that ishow they are listed nine in., ten in., etc.That is always the swing over thebed. The distance on my lathe between centers is around 18 inches. This isan Dave L. from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Feb 11 20:03:18 1998 Subject: Progress Report I have the butt section planed and in wraps and have started on the tipsection. I know those of you that have been on this list for a whilewill have seen such reports before. I just wanted to thank everyone forall of the great suggestions and help. I think the most helpful was theencouragement that this can be done. Not necessarily to me, orcurrently written (read the archives). I am at a point now where I know I will get a finished rod from thisprocess. I am at a point now where I am looking forward to the secondattempt to correct some of the errors that the learning curve haspointed out. This is a hell of a lot of fun! Thanks everyone! SteveIndependence, MO from flyfisher@brinet.com Wed Feb 11 20:21:01 1998 21:25:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes LECLAIR123@aol.com wrote: Donald,The nine inches is over the bed. When you buy a lathe, that ishow they are listed nine in., ten in., etc.That is always the swing over thebed. The distance on my lathe between centers is around 18 inches. This isan Dave L. Thanks@! That's what I thought, but it never hurts to ask. Now All Ihave to do is come up with the money. :o Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Feb 11 20:25:17 1998 Subject: Re: Lathes help Dave,When a lathe is listed as a ten inch lathe, That is the swing overthe bed. A lathe with a distance of ten inches between centers isn't long enough.You really should get something with a little longer distance than that.It wouldwork, but I would like something a little longer,if you can afford it.You should neverbuy one of those little hobby lathes. You will find it is too small. Dave LeClair from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 11 21:04:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics Carsten,If it quacks like a duck,etc. it must be a duck.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 11 21:13:37 1998 Subject: Re: Progress Report Steve,Ive been doing this for 20+years and the learning curve is still upwardandit's still fun. Welcome to this nutty world.Hank. from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 11 21:30:19 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA14209 +0000 Subject: Double built rods -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics And at the opposite end of the spectrum would be a double-built rod,which would be all dense power fibers and no pith. I'm thinking oftrying one someday, to utilize some of the thin, light culms I gotlast summer. I suppose that the denser the power fibers, the more the cane weighs.Does anyone know this for a fact?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...>Frank: I am presently building a "double built" rod (Butt section) I chose thistechnique as an experiment to eliminate working on nodes, and to obtain abeautiful yellow outer surface. I took a piece of bamboo that had a verynice outside look (no watermarks or other blemishes) I sanded (on a beltsander) the nodes on each strip until they were flush with the small risethat each node presents, above the normal height of the cane. I alsosandedaway a lot of the pith side. I then planed the enamel side until the nodes and the rest of the cane wereperfectly flat. I planed the pith side down to the power fibers. Whenfinished the piece was about 1/8" thick.I did 12 strips in this manner and heated all strips (after somestraightening ) in my oven. These strips were glued together (two strips at a time, top piece enamelup.... glued to bottom piece enamel up.........e.i. pith to enamel) The six strips were thereby "double built" with a beautiful top, free ofblemishes and perfectly flat, ready for planing. I did not worry aboutcutting through power fibers on the top piece since the whole structurewasentirely "power fibres" I staggered the nodes somewhat on each of thetwopieces that were glued together, but again did not worry about exactstaggering. The whole operation took much less time than working thenodesand less time than building nodless rods ( I have built several "nodlessrods") The individual glued strips ARE heavier than either nodless or node type. Iwas surprised to find that the butt sections weighed 1/3 more with thisconstruction than conventional construction! (This is the weight of thebamboo, not including the glue, which may be negligible!) I should not havebeen so surprised!!! I am debating whether or not to hollow the butt on the next rod.I did not not "double build" the tip section since the doubing disappearsless than half way up the tip section and there are obviously enough powerfibers in the tip. I have not cast this rod yet so I do not have a comparison of the castingcharacteristics. The advantages of this construction technique are obvious.......use abeautiful piece of the top part of each strip, use watermarked or "farmersmarked' sections for the lower section, no nodes to worry about, straightreference for the planing form where the top is perfectly flat, densepowerfibers in the whole rod section, and fast operations with a belt sander andplane. Disadvantages are that it uses more cane,and, without hollowing it isheavier. Unknowns are the effects of more glue (it should not be much differentthanthe effects of glue in a nodless rod) The reason for the experiment was to get a more beautiful outer surfaceonthe rod, not strength. It was inspired by a statement on the listsuggesting that Winston may have obtained their beautiful yellowsurfaces byusing up some of the power fibers. This method allows the fine finish bycutting into the fibers but replacing them in the lower piece. It is nottruly "double built", but more like a veneer topped strip.(The top and bottom pieces of a strip may not be the same thickness,depending on the culm and power fiber thiickness) The "double built " scheme in an old Herters book was used as a guide. Will let you know how it cast in a few weeks. Dick from brookside.rod@juno.com Wed Feb 11 22:13:52 1998 20:14:21 EST Subject: Re: Ni-silver bluing On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 13:27:53 Don Andersen writes:To all, Taking my first pass @ bluing ni-si parts.The questions are: - what do you use to coat and protect the bluing Don; I use an automotive grade of clear acrylic lacquer purchased by the pint.Such products are available at auto parts shops and others which supplythe auto painting trade. This lacquer is reduced by 50% or a bit morewith the appropriate thinner. The thinner I use is produced for mylacquer product by the same manufacturer. Male ferrules are masked, females plugged. The finish is applied bydipping and slowly with-drawing as if varnishing a rod with dip method. Ferrule surfaces are cleaned with alcohol and tack ragged before dipping.One coat is sufficient. Dip the rod section and hang in your dust freedrying space for minimum 24 hours before removing mask or plugs. Inorder to keep your prepared lacquer for any length of time you mustprovide an air tight container. Finish will be found to be harder than most aerosol packed products andcapable of longer service. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 11 22:18:51 1998 Subject: Lathes help RO>I need a bit of clarification . If a lathe has a ten inch bed length can itRO>be used for turning a cork grip or do I have to move up to a larger bedsizeRO>Thanks Dave. What's the length of the grip? Add the reelseat and that's the max. youshould need. IMHO, Don Burns from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 12 00:55:47 1998 Subject: lathes All;I bought one of J.C. Bogeman's mini lathes, and Dave is right, it is toosmall,orwould be if I was planning to do any more than turn grips andferrule stations.For the money, it was worth it for that.As long as I canbuy ferrules, reel seats , etc. as nice as the ones from Dave, Bellingerand REC,then I will leave making these things to those that are good at itand concentrate on the cane work. Just my .02 c's worth.John Channer from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Feb 12 01:01:18 1998 Subject: Re: plane waxing Ted I find it what your saying hard to beleave, think of thethousandsand thousands of people whiping there sweaty pigies on therejeans, David, I fully understand your position, lived it and perhaps I was trying to useflex coat just at the edge of its "envelope". Went through severalconversations with owner of flex coat who was after me to check outeverything for possible presence of silicone. A couple of those thickfabric softerner sheets in close dryer with a few shirts . . . Shirtssmelled rather perfumy, I smelled . . . well, better. Also, unlike many rodwrappers, I was trying to run the flex coat at least 3/8" down the blank oneach wrap. If the junction between blank and flex coat could be detected,bad coating. Also showed up occasionally as small birds eyes on 3" widearea covering signiture. Suffering with this problem, some rods came outjust fine; others were whores. This problem and flex coat in general is effected by heat curing. Roomtempcuring made the problem nearly dissapear (frankly, flexcoat doesn'trecommend raising temp) and indeed most people cure flex coat at roomtemp,but I had always used aprox 100 F with no problem. Got rid of the softenersheets, kept the dirt and sweat and I was able to use fast cure temp again.I think we have about beat this one to death. Ted G. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 12 01:44:42 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:44:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow building On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Tony I tried one of them last weekend at the Seattle sportsman's show and Iwouldn't characterize it as being a bit fast. I mean, I realize they domakedifferent models and all, but I wasn't impressed at all. Davy PS I thought it was kind of ugly, too. Yes, they are ugly but do you think you could go as far as saying there is a comparison between the hexigraph vis hollow graphite rod and the conventional vis hollow built cane rod? Or is the hexigraph action just too different to compare? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jsbond@inforamp.net Thu Feb 12 04:30:42 1998 Subject: Re: Acetone or Denatured? Acetone is a nasty substance, it eats things, I suggest extreme caution. JB At 18:19 11/02/98 +0000, you wrote:Just wanted to make sure there is nothing wrong with wiping a rod down before dipping with acetone or denatured alcohol. It's about that time again (thank god)! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 12 08:12:51 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 2/12/98 12:30:18 AM, you wrote: Roger - I would be very careful. The butt of a spey rod gets a lot of stress,both flexing and torque. I think I would try a solid one first, maybe evendouble built. from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Feb 12 08:13:40 1998 1997)) id862565A9.004DCA54 ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 08:09:40 -0600 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics I've often wondered about the damping (read cushioning) effects of thepith. This would be analogous to coating a vibrating structure withabsorbant material such as rubber or foam to damp out the vibrations.Maybethat's what's going on with the Hexagraph rod, too. Also, didn't Ed Marinaro play for the Minnesota Vikings and act on HillStreet Blues? ; ^) Best regards,Ed Estlow "Robert Clarke" on 02/11/98 06:27:33 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics You may want to look at what Ed Marinaro said about the pith in his book Inthe Ring of the Rise. He talked about the pith having a cushoning effect. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Feb 12 09:16:39 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id PAA10219 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:16:34 GMT Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics Frank Stetzer wrote: And at the opposite end of the spectrum would be a double-built rod,which would be all dense power fibers and no pith. I suppose that the denser the power fibers, the more the cane weighs.Does anyone know this for a fact? Yes the power fibers are denser than the pith. If you have a scale (balance)youcan use some scrap and see the difference in weight of the two. Bryant C. from donkovach@email.msn.com Thu Feb 12 09:21:52 1998 MicrosoftSMTPSVC;Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:21:21 -0800 SMTPSVC;Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:21:12 -0800 Subject: Planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD37A0.084E82E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD37A0.084E82E0 I am getting ready to order planes to begin my foray into rodmaking and =I am unsure which planes to purchase. I know from reading several books=that the Stanley model 9 1/2 is the one most referred to, but I was =wondering if there is a particular manufacturer that makes a better =product than another. The Woodcraft catalog has Stanley, Record, and =Lie-Nielsen planes that would all seem to fit the bill. Has anyone =noticed any significant differences in the quality of these different =manufacturers equipment? Thanks, ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD37A0.084E82E0 I am gettingready = planes to begin my foray into rodmaking and I am unsure which planes = is the one most referred to, but I was wondering if there is a = catalog has Stanley, Record, and Lie-Nielsen planes that would all seem = these different manufacturers equipment? Thanks, ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01BD37A0.084E82E0-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 12 09:43:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Acetone or Denatured? Jon,JB is right-use alcohol.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 12 09:43:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building Tony, I have cast but not fished the Hexagraph rods.IMHO they don't begin toapproximate good cane . They are heavier than graphite-some people like'embut I think it's a case of the Emporer's new clothes. Just my $0.02.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 12 09:45:06 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics No Ed, he played for the Beatles. ;-) from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Feb 12 09:46:01 1998 Subject: Re: Planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C0_01BD37A3.1C7A0E80" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01BD37A3.1C7A0E80 -----Original Message-----From: Donald Kovach Date: Thursday, February 12, 1998 10:24 AMSubject: Planes I am getting ready to order planes to begin my foray into rodmaking =and I am unsure which planes to purchase. I know from reading several =books that the Stanley model 9 1/2 is the one most referred to, but I =was wondering if there is a particular manufacturer that makes a better =product than another. The Woodcraft catalog has Stanley, Record, and =Lie-Nielsen planes that would all seem to fit the bill. Has anyone =noticed any significant differences in the quality of these different =manufacturers equipment? Thanks, Don, Back on the 9th and there-bouts there was some discussion of =preference for planes. If you got those posts, were/are they of any =help in your discission? ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01BD37A3.1C7A0E80 -----Original = RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= PlanesI am getting= planes to begin my foray into rodmaking and I am unsure which planes = particular manufacturer that makes a better product than = Woodcraft catalog has Stanley, Record, and Lie-Nielsen planes that = in the quality of these different manufacturers =equipment? Thanks, Don, Back on the9th = there-bouts there was some discussion of preference for = discission? ------=_NextPart_000_00C0_01BD37A3.1C7A0E80-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Feb 12 10:00:30 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Hollow building At 16:33 11/02/98 EST, Carsten, Darryl, Ed, Tom et al were discussinghollow builds: 1] The glue thing: Saw an Xray of a hollow built rod and there was littleevidence of glue "inside" the hollows. 2] The matching pair of rods I built last year showed me that the hollowedrod is not only softer but will not cast as far [ is not as powerful] - thesolid twin was capable of about 85' without strain whereas the hollowedouttwin was about 75' with the same effort - big disclaimer here - I didn'tinvent or rig any type of gizmo to measure the effort it took to cast eachrod - just 45 years of flinging these things about tells me the difference.All opinions are purely subjective. 3] The pith was removed until there was 0.085" of power fiber left in thehollowed out rod. 4] The rod I built was not truly hollow as I left dams along the rod shaftto strengthen the hoop strength. I guess I was too damn chicken to make atruly hollow rod. 5] As Darryl says - there would seem to be few advantages to hollow rodsinshorter line lengths. 6] If you were to build two rods that were to cast with about the sametaper the same distance with the same effort, I would expect that youmighthave too add up to 0.025" in the butt diameter to offset the hollowingthing. Of course the 0.025" would have to be spread upwards towards thetip@ 0.001"/1" of travel/strip approx. What this would change the weightdifference - I haven't got a clue. Was fun building the thing - maybe more fun making the mill to do thework- still added about $150.00 to the cost of the first one. Gonna have tomake more just to defray the cost of the goofy machine. Just some random thoughts, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Feb 12 10:00:38 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes At 20:54 11/02/98 EST, you wrote:Donald,The nine inches is over the bed. When you buy a lathe, that ishow they are listed nine in., ten in., etc.That is always the swing over thebed. The distance on my lathe between centers is around 18 inches. This isan Dave L. Dave, I'm about 18" bed length too with a swing of 6" - wouldn't want anyshorter. You got a Myford too? Don from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 12 10:07:23 1998 Subject: Thomas Dirigio A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3 peice9footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry fly action.The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, and twotips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyremoved. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish is alligatoredandwill need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediatewraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina of age,butis not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enough now,butmay need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern, againtypical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila, Pa." , inaddition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me off list. --Tom from jtien@ptdcs2.intel.com Thu Feb 12 10:09:21 1998 AA15004(5.65c+/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Thu, 12 Feb 199808:09:14-0800 Subject: Re: my rod refinishing project and winding check Hank, Thanks for the tip. I hadn't thought of epoxy.. Joe from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Feb 12 10:21:10 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics OK, Vince Marinaro. I think I got the last name right, didn't I? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: eestlow@srminc.com Subject: Re: Hollow-build DynamicsDate: Thursday, February 12, 1998 6:11 AM I've often wondered about the damping (read cushioning) effects of thepith. This would be analogous to coating a vibrating structure withabsorbant material such as rubber or foam to damp out the vibrations.Maybethat's what's going on with the Hexagraph rod, too. Also, didn't Ed Marinaro play for the Minnesota Vikings and act on HillStreet Blues? ; ^) Best regards,Ed Estlow "Robert Clarke" on 02/11/98 06:27:33 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu cc: (bcc: Ed Estlow/SRM/US)Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics You may want to look at what Ed Marinaro said about the pith in his bookInthe Ring of the Rise. He talked about the pith having a cushoningeffect. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 12 10:28:18 1998 Subject: RE:Thomas Dirigio RO>A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3peiceRO>footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry flyaction.RO>The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, andtwoRO>tips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyRO>removed. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish isalligatored andRO>will need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediateRO>wraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina ofage, buRO>is not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enough now,buRO>may need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern,againRO>typical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila, Pa.", iRO>addition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.RO>He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me offlist. --RO>Tom Mac (Chris McDowell), You should jump on this - it's already allengraved for you. Don B. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 12 11:03:02 1998 Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:02:51 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow building On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Tony, I have cast but not fished the Hexagraph rods.IMHO they don't begin toapproximate good cane . They are heavier than graphite-some people like'embut I think it's a case of the Emporer's new clothes. Just my $0.02.Hank. Up until about 10 years ago thwere was and maybe still is a guy called John McGin making cane rods here. He was reasonably well known but I don't know why as nobody could reach him to get a rod from him. I understand he droped cane and went into hexagraph. from what I cangather he's making these for the game fishermen (marlin etc, not fly) whereweight isn't a problem. Sounds strange but that's what I hear.Anyhow, it seems he turned to the dark side trying to replicate the good side of cane with the action and robustness of graphite and this is the question I'm trying to ask re hollow building. If hollow building (cane) has any advantages over solid cane, and it seems as if the advantage is minimal to the point that nobody can realy say whatis the reason for making haxagraph rods solid when the extra weight is involved? Any reason apart from an experiment taken too far? The fact hexagraph hasn't died off completely makes me wonder.I guess I should try and cast one. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from penr0295@uidaho.edu Thu Feb 12 13:17:22 1998 doing-bs Subject: Bamboo Rod Magazine sighting A friend at FF@ forwarded this post to me regarding the Bamboo Fly Rodmagazine: I was in the Orvis Madison Ave. store in NY yesterday and saw themagazine. The salesman and I could not find a price on the mag. I didnot get a chance to look through it because the meter maid was comingdown the block. Had to leave! Steve W.Brooklyn, NY Thomas PenroseBend, OR from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Feb 12 13:21:36 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics I've been waiting for Ed to respond to Carstens' post, since as Isaid, I'm not a mechanical engineer. A couple things bother me about the conclusions Carsten comes up with. The first one was he takes a reduction in stiffness and subtractsthat from a reduction in weight. I'm not sure what the units of measureare in the stiffness number, but I'm fairly sure they aren't the same as the weight measurement. I'm sure the weight does have something todo with the stiffness, but I don't think it's a straight correlation. I maybe wrong, like I said, I'm not a mechanical engineer. The other thing is more practical than anything else. When I wasexperimenting with hollow building, I was able to hollow out thehandle section easily enough, but I was unable to hollow out thetip section because the diameter was too small. The handle sectionis where a reduction in stiffness will have the greatest effect andreduction in weight will have the least effect. I was also unable toreduce the overall weight by anything approaching 22%. The mostmaterial I was able to remove was half an ounce, in a rod that weighed 4 and a half ounces as a solid rod. That's 11%. My experience with hollow building is this:The first one I built I liked at first. I took it out on the front lawn, testcasted it, and was pleased with the result. It felt faster, springier. I made two more, different lengths, different line weights. The last oneI made hollow was my favorite rod, the Cattanach 7' 4 wt. I thoughtI had this bamboo rodmaking down pat. My favorite rod and now evenbetter. I went to the Sierra Mtns. to my favorite fishing places, andstarted realizing that my casts were falling short of where they usuallywent. My Dad was with me, and he fishes with the first 7' 4wt. Cattanach taper I made - not hollowed out. I borrowed it, and sure enough, my casts were back to where they used to be. I didn't wantto believe it! Hollowing it out was supposed to make it faster, and itcertainly felt faster when I cast it. Faster is supposed to equate tolonger casts (maybe not really, but I thought so at the time). So, whenI got back home I put it through every test I could think of, casting it, hanging weights from the end, pulling the weight down and releasing itto measure how long it takes to stop, etc. In every case the conclusionwas the hollow rod is slower, softer, or flexes more, except when youtake the rod and whip it back and forth. It still seemed faster when I didthat. Hence my conclusion. On shorter or lighter line rods hollowing isn't worth it. Darryl Hayashida from rmoon@ida.net Thu Feb 12 13:30:30 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building Tony I have a few sample sections of Hexagraph rods and they are not solidgraphite. They are a thin sking of graphite fibers over a hard foaminterior. That is they duplicate the method E.C. Powell used for thehollow rods he built. He planed all of the pith away, laminated a pieceof Port orford cedar to the power fiber strip and then hollowed thecedar section. Hexagraph rods are not hollow built, but neither arethey solid graphie. Back in 1985, Jim Green and I were talking and he suggested to me that Imake a hexagonal graphite. His suggestion was to laminate multiplelayers of graphite cloth to build up a thickness of the depth of a halfdiameter of the rod and then to plane the built up strip. I never gotaround to it, and I think that Walton Powell Hexagraphs at first mayhave been solid. At any rate I fished with one he made for The RiverRuns tThrough It when I was an advisor to the producer. The rod wasvery stiff and I found it difficult to even bend it. In all honesty, afew years later Walton let me cast a few of the Hexagraphs he was thenproducing and they were much better. Even APPROACHING bamboo. Ralph PS I have been away for almost a month and I will try to post the BillStanley Favorite tapers I promised so long ago this afternoon. Ralph from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Feb 12 13:44:06 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building Hugh Falkus (ok, I think I got this one right) talked about Hexagraph rodsin his Speycasting book. He had heard that the ferrule was a hex ferrule,and answered the problem of ferrules coming loose during speycasting.Hasanyone seen these hex shapes ferrules? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Ralph W Moon Subject: Re: Hollow buildingDate: Thursday, February 12, 1998 11:16 AM Tony I have a few sample sections of Hexagraph rods and they are not solidgraphite. They are a thin sking of graphite fibers over a hard foaminterior. That is they duplicate the method E.C. Powell used for thehollow rods he built. He planed all of the pith away, laminated a pieceof Port orford cedar to the power fiber strip and then hollowed thecedar section. Hexagraph rods are not hollow built, but neither arethey solid graphie. Back in 1985, Jim Green and I were talking and he suggested to me that Imake a hexagonal graphite. His suggestion was to laminate multiplelayers of graphite cloth to build up a thickness of the depth of a halfdiameter of the rod and then to plane the built up strip. I never gotaround to it, and I think that Walton Powell Hexagraphs at first mayhave been solid. At any rate I fished with one he made for The RiverRuns tThrough It when I was an advisor to the producer. The rod wasvery stiff and I found it difficult to even bend it. In all honesty, afew years later Walton let me cast a few of the Hexagraphs he was thenproducing and they were much better. Even APPROACHING bamboo. Ralph PS I have been away for almost a month and I will try to post the BillStanley Favorite tapers I promised so long ago this afternoon. Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Thu Feb 12 13:46:55 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Rod Magazine sighting Thomas The magazine went to the mail house a week ago last Friday or Saturday.It should be coming very soon. I got an advance copy and it looksgood. The subscription price is $24 Sorry I can't find the unitprice. There is a full half page of your still life though. Looksgreat Ralph from frankc@webspan.net Thu Feb 12 14:01:50 1998 0500 Subject: USED LATHE Just started a search for a used lathe with an 18" to 20" bed. I'vebeen at the internet for a while but most of the lathes listed on theused metalworking machinery sites are large and expensive. I have beenlooking in our local Want Ad Press and the newspapers without any luck.Anyone have any other locations that I can try? from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Feb 12 14:02:22 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.5/SCO5) with ESMTP id UAA23407 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 20:02:12 GMT Subject: Re: Hollow building Tony Young wrote: Anyhow, it seems he turned to the dark side trying to replicate thegoodside ofcane with the action and robustness of graphite and this is the questionI'mtrying to ask re hollow building. If hollow building (cane) has any advantages over solid cane, and itseemsas if the advantage is minimal to the point that nobody can realy saywhat isthe reason for making haxagraph rods solid when the extra weight isinvolved?Any reason apart from an experiment taken too far? The fact hexagraphhasn't died off completely makes me wonder.I guess I should try and cast one. I have built and used a 10 Ft. modified hollow/hexagraph type rod. Ireallylike the distance and feel of this experimental. Maybe you would want toinvestthe time & effort to build and try one. Any way here is the method I usedwithgood results, feel free to try it: Pick the rod design you most like to use and make the strips as for a"normal"rod. stop planing at .02 over size and plane away the pith. Use epoxy andlaminate a single strip of graphite tape to each strip where the pith was.Whenthe epxoy is fully cured finish the strips as normal. This gives you stripsthatwill build a "hollow" rod with just a hint of graphite for back bone. finishtherod in your normal way and use a line of the correct normal weight, ie. iftherod you made these strips for would use a five weight line... use a fiveweightline on your experimental rod also. The tip sections will end up with somegraphite left on the tail and the tip may have one or two strands left. Myexperimental rod has landed somewhere around one hundred trout ten ofwhich werein the twenty lb. class. The graphite tape seems to be a good compromiseforhollow construction. I do not use this method on rods shorter than eightfeetbecause you loose the tape in the tip section. Bryant C. from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Thu Feb 12 14:17:15 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 252 0600 Subject: New Bamboo? Would anyone like to share an evaluation of bamboo from orders receivedin the past week or so? Thanks Jim Kubichek from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 12 14:20:43 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA29960 for Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio At 11:07 AM 2/12/98 EST, you wrote:A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3 peice9footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry flyaction.The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, and twotips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyremoved. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish is alligatoredandwill need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediatewraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina of age,butis not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enough now,butmay need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern, againtypical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila, Pa." ,inaddition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me off list. --Tom Tom,Not to be pedantic (or insulting), if the label is REALLY spelledDirig-I-o, I'd give it a pass. It's a counterfeit! Thomas spelled his:"Dirigo", according to Martin Keane's book! (I got beat to the comments onthe Ed/Vince Marinaro interchange--had to throw a little of myself intothisone). Forgive me,Art Port from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Thu Feb 12 14:24:52 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:24:09 -0500 Subject: Re: USED LATHE Frank Caruso wrote: Just started a search for a used lathe with an 18" to 20" bed. I'vebeen at the internet for a while but most of the lathes listed on theused metalworking machinery sites are large and expensive. I have beenlooking in our local Want Ad Press and the newspapers without any luck.Anyone have any other locations that I can try? Keep looking in the want ads. Good lathes with tooling appear from timeto time. You can get some real deals. There are also places that specialize used machines. I know that thereis one in S.E. Jersey that is advertised in the Home Shop Machinistmagazine. (BTW: HSM is a very nice mag!!!) from birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu Thu Feb 12 14:31:03 1998 (echem16392.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu ha011863 for ; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 15:30:47 -0500 Subject: Block PLanes I am really new to rod making process. I have read about the Stanley 091/2 as the plane of choice. What is the difference between the 09 1/2and the 60 1/2. Can the lower angle plane (60 1/2) be used just as well.I appreciate your help. Seymour Birnbaum from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 12 14:34:45 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA00973 for Subject: Re: USED LATHE At 03:03 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:Just started a search for a used lathe with an 18" to 20" bed. I'vebeen at the internet for a while but most of the lathes listed on theused metalworking machinery sites are large and expensive. I have beenlooking in our local Want Ad Press and the newspapers without any luck.Anyone have any other locations that I can try? There's a fellow named Dave Sobel who deals in used machine tooling inAlpine N.J. I can't remember his address or phone no. but he ALWAYS has asmall ad in Home Shop Machinist Magazine (near the back). He has fairprices(which STILL may be more than you want to pay; been there, felt that way!)and the shipping may be prohibitive if you're very far away, but you mightwant to check him out.If you don't get a lathe from him you may be able to get some tooling, forthe one you DO get, from him. Good luck,Art Port from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 12 14:36:24 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics In a message dated 2/12/98 7:26:42 PM, you wrote: Darryl - I am inclined to agree with you on this point. But, hollowing doesopen up some other interesting possibilities. I have handled a few of theWinston hollowbuilts and they have a light feel for their length. You canbuild an 8 1/2 or 9 foot rod that will feel like a 7 1/2 or 8 footer. Yes, youhave to increase the taper to compensate for the loss of power, but youstillend up with less weight.I built a very unusual rod last year following deLespinay's instructionsin TPF and in his book. His approach is to greatly increase diameter, andthenhollow build, producing a very fast taper that is not oppressively heavy. Idoubt that you would like the taper, and I am not recommending it to you,butthe rod is unique and not something you could do without hollow building.There will be more on this in TPF so I am not going to elaborate furtherrightnow. from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 12 14:42:21 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio In a message dated 2/12/98 8:23:58 PM, you wrote: OK- you got me. Sheesh! and I thought I was a nitpicker. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Feb 12 14:55:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building Don,I built 6+ / - 8' ,3 pc. for 7 wgt. Several of 'em were hollow, no dams(Itape the final strips and lay them out and plane the inside vertices 'tiltheplaned flat is 1/2 the outside width). One of the hollow built ones and onlyone would false cast a 7 wf 30' into the backing and still give a fine castat20'. No, I have not been able to duplicate it. I'm still trying.Regards,Hank. from bobpetti@VNET.IBM.COM Thu Feb 12 14:57:13 1998 Thu, 12 Feb 98 15:57:10 EST Subject: Tung Oil Problem? Hello from a _very_ deep lurker and a complete novice in the world ofbamboo fly rods. Late last year, a friend gave me a 9' 3pc bamboo fly rod as a gift. Iguess I had been whining a bit about how much I wanted a bamboo flyrod to fish with, so he decided to donate an old project rod that was inneed of a refinish job. He talked me into doing the refinish job myself. To be honest, I'mglad he did. I learned a lot about bamboo rods before I even removed thefirst snake guide, both from Sinclair's book and the list archives (atreasure chest of information, btw). I've disassembled the rod and stripped off the old finish. After readingthrough the archives, I came to the conclusion that for what will likelybe a one-time-only project, a tung oil finish would be more practicalthan a dip tube and varnish setup. Last weekend, I started the tung oil finish. One coat per day bringsme up to today - four coats applied with a light rub with 0000 steelwool in between each coat. The finish so far is not smooth. I checked the archives again anddiscovered that I should have wiped the wet oil off the rod after ithad set for an hour or so (I'm not a woodworker and I had never workedwith tung oil before)? I just applied the oil, hung the rod sectionvertically, and let it dry overnight. The oil looks very smooth when applied, but the next morning when drythere appear to be very slight "wrinkles" that run the length of thesections. Nothing major, but certainly not the glass smooth finish I'mhoping for. I'm wondering if there is something I can do to fix the finish I'veapplied so far. Stripping and starting over is ok, if that's really theonly way. I'm also wondering about the application and wiping of thetung oil. I was soaking a painter's rag (lint free) with oil and justwiping it on the rod. It seemed to provide good coverage, or so Ithough. Should I wipe the wet oil off (after letting it sit for awhile)with a dry rag? Do I wipe it dry, or just try to get the majority ofthe oil off? Sorry for the novice questions. I'm starting to realize that I'm gettingin over my head. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Bob PettiEndicott, NYbobpetti@vnet.ibm.com from thramer@presys.com Thu Feb 12 14:57:30 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Block PLanes Seymour Birnbaum wrote: I am really new to rod making process. I have read about the Stanley 091/2 as the plane of choice. What is the difference between the 09 1/2and the 60 1/2. Can the lower angle plane (60 1/2) be used just as well.I appreciate your help. Seymour BirnbaumNo. It tends to lift the nodes. It will work but it takes alot ofpractice. I would rather have a cheap #220. A.J.Thramer from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Feb 12 15:02:32 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Ed who? ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: Thomas DirigioDate: Thursday, February 12, 1998 12:37 PM At 11:07 AM 2/12/98 EST, you wrote:A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3peice 9footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry flyaction.The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, andtwotips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyremoved. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish is alligatoredandwill need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediatewraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina ofage, butis not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enoughnow, butmay need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern,again> >typical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila,Pa.", inaddition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me offlist. --Tom Tom,Not to be pedantic (or insulting), if the label is REALLY spelledDirig-I-o, I'd give it a pass. It's a counterfeit! Thomas spelled his:"Dirigo", according to Martin Keane's book! (I got beat to the commentsonthe Ed/Vince Marinaro interchange--had to throw a little of myself intothisone). Forgive me,Art Port from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Feb 12 15:23:35 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 12 Feb 98 16:22:41 EST Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Dirigo is taken from the Maine state motto and is included on the stateflag. I believe in means literally "I direct". The Thomas shop was, ofcourse, located in Bangor Maine. F.E.T. lived dwon the street from me inNewburgh Maine, nearly a century ago. At 03:37 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:At 11:07 AM 2/12/98 EST, you wrote:A friend of mine wants to sell an early F.E. Thomas Dirigio. It is a 3peice 9footer that feels like a 5-6 weight to me. It has a moderate dry flyaction.The rod has a full nickel silver SB reel seat, a bamboo tip case, and twotips. One of the tips is 2" short, both have sets that should be easilyremoved. The glue looks sound throughout, but the varnish is alligatoredandwill need to be re-done. The wraps are red and the rod has theintermediatewraps typical of the early Thomas's. The cork has the dark patina of age,butis not in bad shape at all. The ferrules are NS, and are snug enough now,butmay need tightening after cleaning. The guides are British patttern,againtypical of Thomas. The reel seat is engraved "E.C. McDowell, Phila, Pa.", inaddition to the Thomas Dirigio markings.He is looking for $200.00. Anyone interested, please contact me off list.--Tom Tom,Not to be pedantic (or insulting), if the label is REALLY spelledDirig-I-o, I'd give it a pass. It's a counterfeit! Thomas spelled his:"Dirigo", according to Martin Keane's book! (I got beat to the comments onthe Ed/Vince Marinaro interchange--had to throw a little of myself intothisone).Forgive me,Art Port Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Feb 12 15:56:56 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 12 Feb 98 16:56:16 EST Subject: Re: Block PLanes Don and Seymour, The standard 60 1/2 is a low angle plane, I think abouthalf that of a 9 1/2. Most folks use a 9 1/2, because of the better angleof attack. Stanleys are cheaper. I think I've seen them mail order atAlden's (sp?) for about 30, and the Record for 39 from Lee Valley. Recordsare a bit smaller in body, have a slightly better blade, and are morecomfortable to a smaller hand. I find Stanley's ok, but a bit too long formy grip, and don't like the blades side-to-side adjustment much (my rightpinky finger is forever knocking the blade out of square as I plane away).Check WC's book for details on scaper planes like the L/N 212, or see issue123 of Fine Woodworking. Hope that helps. B.03:28 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:I am really new to rod making process. I have read about the Stanley 091/2 as the plane of choice. What is the difference between the 09 1/2and the 60 1/2. Can the lower angle plane (60 1/2) be used just as well.I appreciate your help. Seymour Birnbaum Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from longroge@isu.edu Thu Feb 12 17:42:35 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building TSmithwick@aol.com wrote:I think I would try a solid one first, maybe evendouble built. Robert Schiller's note on his double-built was very helpful. However, Ididn't understand how the double-building eliminated working with the nodes. Isupposethat would be a secondary issue, because the major reason for double building aspeywould be to strengthen the butt section. from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Feb 12 17:48:12 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? In a message dated 98-02-12 16:07:53 EST, you write: Dear Bob You will need to take that wrinkled finish off. And after that, wash it, letit dry, and rub some more oil into it. It sounds like you might be trying to apply too thick a coat. You reallyonlyneed to wipe it down, using a non-fuzzy, line-dried rag and then rub it in,with pressure, until you've covered all the bare bamboo. It will take a fewapplications like this, but each application (I don't even want to call it a"coat") will dry much quicker. Then you can steel-wool it (I use Scotch-Brite pads, the white ones, astheydon't seem to take the previous coat off the corners quite so readily) anddoanother rubdown. After about 6 or 7 reps you'll be ready to wrap. I'm assuming you aretalkingabout some kind of polymerized oil or commercial varnish? If you usepuretung oil, you'll want to let it dry a little longer, but it'll still be a goodfinish, and very easy to repair in any case. That's why I like this finish so much. If properly done (very fine coats)it'll rarely, if ever, chip and any nicks or scratches can be almost invisiblyrepaired with a little steel wool and some more oil, applied just asbefore. Good luck, and I hope you enjoy your rod! Davy from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Thu Feb 12 17:55:55 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id AAA17692 for; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 00:35:13 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics ---------- Sir D, Don and Hank A few comments from me: First of all I know it is so, that a hollowbuilt rod with a butt enddiamter of 0.300 inches is just some 5% less stiff than a solid rod at thisgiven point. The further up the rod, the smaller the difference instiffnes. Secondly, I stated, that the reduction in weight was not 17%percent for the entire rod. Obviously the the weight saving is reduced, asone nears the tip of the rod. Should I make a guesstimate, I would havesaid some 10% wieght reduction.Sir D: Absolutely no flaming intendedfromme - that's a fact as well. An 11% weight reduction, according to my conclusions, should result in astiffer rod, needing less power to throw a line a given distance. Accodingto the expirience of Don and Sir D, the opposite are facts, where as Hankagrees, likewise based on experience. This creates an interesting, little dilemma. Here we have 3 experiencedrodmakers, all of them Honourable and outstanding citizens. Doing thesamething, they most certainly did not achive the same results. It is 2 - 1 to"the softies" not counting calculations. Where does that leave me?Answer:Stranded - I simply can't explain what's on. Can You? Best regards Carsten from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 12 17:58:03 1998 SAA15580;Thu, 12 Feb 1998 18:57:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk George / Mick Hate to say it - but I bought the last of that stock at the Somersetshow - Dennis watchedme do it! It is really pretty stuff. Chris P.S. It called red / black Jasper On Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:43:57 EST, DrBamboo@aol.com wrote: Mick;Check with Belvoirdale.He had a stock of old elephant silk.He's listed onthe rodmakers under parts and supplies. George from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:05:36 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? The answers to your questions depend a lot on what kind oftung oil you used. Was it pure tung oil, polymerized tung oil,or tung oil with varnish added (sometimes sold as wipe ontung oil finish). It doesn't sound like it was pure tung oil you used, becauseI've used pure tung oil and was able to wipe the excess offafter letting it hang overnight. The tung oil has to actuallysoak into the bamboo and cure for several days before it"hardens" (it doesn't seem like tung oil ever actually completely hardens). Also you mention a glass smoothfinish - pure tung oil gives you a decidedly matte finishthat in no way would be described as glass smooth.It does look better after the tung oil cures and you waxit. The length wise wrinkles sound like a wipe on varnish -tung oil mix that has been applied too thickly. The varnishskins over, but there is too much volume of liquid under it,and as it continues to dry the surface wrinkles as the liquidunder it shrinks. Steel wool or use 400 or 600 wet dry sandpaper to get the wrinkles out, and apply a very thin coat. Darryl Hayashida from jfoster@gte.net Thu Feb 12 18:07:08 1998 Subject: Re: Block PLanes Robert I have removed the little adjuster thingy from all my stanleys. If youdon't set the clamp screw too tight they can be adjusted with fingerpressure just fine..I also couldn't get them to work at all well withhock blades Jerry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:10:47 1998 Subject: The magazine Well here it is thursday and I haven't seen the magazine yet , maybetomorrow.Mark told me it would be mid-week this week. Any1 got their copy yet?Bret from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 12 18:11:43 1998 Subject: Milward fly rod Hi Guys - A friend at work who knows I'm a bamboo rod addict asked me about arod he has. It's a 90" Milward, I think he said 'Trout Special,' ormaybe 'Troutsman Special.' Anybody know anything about rods made by Milward? Is this where theMilward binder came from? Should he worry about fishing this or is itof limited or modest value? Where do the odd socks go? Did you everwonder how lint manages to accumulate under the bed, even with a bedskirt on it? Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:20:53 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow building List,When the hexagraph rods first came out they sent me one to field test. Ihadan 8 wght and I found it to be very heavy and it was like fishing with apoolcue. Used it for a month back here for steelheading and sent it back as abad Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:26:57 1998 Subject: Re: Planes Does any1 else have trouble reading this blue print on black backgroundbesides me?Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 12 18:30:35 1998 Subject: Re: Re: USED LATHE There are a few places here in So. Bend that deal in used lathes what doyouwant and how far from SB? from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 12 18:33:26 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? Tung oil is my friend. We understand each other. I never apply morethan one T-H-I-N coat in a 24 hour period. You may need to wait longerif your workshop is cool or humid. If you don't wipe tung oil off to a thin coat, or if you apply a secondcoat before the first has dried, the finish will never dry properlyunderneath, and you will have wrinkles and no end of trouble. Properlyapplied tung oil leaves a beautiful sheen, but isn't glossy. Excepthigh lustre polymerized tung oil, which I consider a varnish. Brian from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 12 18:54:04 1998 TAA28157;Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:54:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod BrianYes it is probably one of Bob's rods - .binder by same name fame.Knowing Bob he would be insulted if your friend did not fish the damn thing! Chris On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:10:08 -0500, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Hi Guys - A friend at work who knows I'm a bamboo rod addict asked me about arod he has. It's a 90" Milward, I think he said 'Trout Special,' ormaybe 'Troutsman Special.' Anybody know anything about rods made by Milward? Is this where theMilward binder came from? Should he worry about fishing this or is itof limited or modest value? Where do the odd socks go? Did you everwonder how lint manages to accumulate under the bed, even with a bedskirt on it? Brian from jczimny@dol.net Thu Feb 12 19:24:11 1998 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Hi Guys - A friend at work who knows I'm a bamboo rod addict asked me about arod he has. It's a 90" Milward, I think he said 'Trout Special,' ormaybe 'Troutsman Special.' Anybody know anything about rods made by Milward? Is this where theMilward binder came from? Should he worry about fishing this or is itof limited or modest value? Where do the odd socks go? Did you everwonder how lint manages to accumulate under the bed, even with a bedskirt on it? BrianBob Milward makes very, very nice rods in Vancouver.John from ramseys@directcon.net Thu Feb 12 19:29:11 1998 zeus.directcon.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA13596 for Subject: Re: Milward fly rod In reply to the following by Chris Bogart on 07:55 PM 2/12/98 - 0500;BrianYes it is probably one of Bob's rods - .binder by same name fame.Knowing Bob he would be insulted if your friend did not fish the damn thing! Chris OK, but what about the socks question? Steve from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 12 19:33:15 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA17800 +0000 Subject: Re: Hollow building -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Hollow building However, I didn'tunderstand how the double-building eliminated working with the nodes. Isuppose thatwould be a secondary issue, because the major reason for double buildingaspey would beto strengthen the butt section. Roger: issue. That is why I stated that it was not truly a Double Built in thestrictest sense of the words The primary purpose was to get a good looking outer surface. The nodeworkis eliminated because I just planed the nodes down rather than press themout! I did not worry about the loss of power fibers, the usual issue whenworking on the enamel side of a rod. I sacrificed some of the fibers in thetop part of the strip and replaced them with the fibers in the bottom partof the strip when the two, planed down to the power fibers were joined,prior to planing in the form. Perhaps I could have made that clearer in my message. The result was less work, a stronger rod section, but a heavier one, and abeautiful outer surfaced. The ordinary "double built" was designed for strength as a primary factor.I merely changed the emphasis byplaning down the nodes and making the top section more like a veneer. Iknow that it sounds like a sacrilege to plane away on power fibers but therestitution of the fibers below the planed top part of the strip solves theproblem in a simple and maybe unique way. As the saying goes "Try it, you'll like it". Dick from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 12 19:34:46 1998 Subject: Re: New Bamboo? Jim -There have been a couple of shipments arrive in the past month - theoneyou should be interested in was opened on monday. I expect to see 7bundlesperhaps as soon as tomorrow. I talked with Harold on tuesday and heseemedpleased (finally) Been Down with PneumoniaWayne from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 12 19:41:16 1998 Subject: Re: Planes RO>Does any1 else have trouble reading this blue print on black backgroundRO>besides me?RO>Bret bret, Must be your software. I've got blk on white. Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 12 19:53:01 1998 199820:52:59 -0500 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod That is easy - same place where nodes go. Chris On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:29:04 -0800, Steven and Liisa Ramsey wrote: In reply to the following by Chris Bogart on 07:55 PM 2/12/98 - 0500;BrianYes it is probably one of Bob's rods - .binder by same name fame.Knowing Bob he would be insulted if your friend did not fish the damn thing! Chris OK, but what about the socks question? Steve from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 12 19:59:38 1998 with SMTP id AAA9357 for ;Fri, 13 Feb 1998 01:58:59 +0000 Subject: test TAA23933 Sorry folks. I'm having trouble with this lousy pc. Dennis d:-( from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 12 20:07:53 1998 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod John, Thanks. My friend thought that this was an English rod. Had somefunky line designation like ZHCH, or some such. Again, I'm withoutnotes, working from a memory that was severly compromised by collegelife in the '70's. Brian from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Thu Feb 12 20:33:01 1998 (AST) 12 Feb 98 21:38:15 -0500 0500 12 Feb 98 21:38:06 -0500 Subject: Re: Planes Bret what blue print are you talking about. Is it from a site or from thelist. Pls let me knowThanksJohn-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Planes RO>Does any1 else have trouble reading this blue print on blackbackgroundRO>besides me?RO>Bret bret, Must be your software. I've got blk on white. Don Burns from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 12 20:35:36 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA32695 for; Thu, 12 Feb 1998 21:35:33 -0500 Subject: Watco Oil Hi All,Anybody use Watco Danish Oil for there rods. I have used it on manywoodworking projects and find it great. The can used to claim that ithas resins in it that harden the wood (like impregnating), but I don'tsee that on the cans anymore???. You can get a great finish by applyingit with 600 wet sand,the fine particles that you sand off fill in thepores in the wood and you get a really smoooooth finish!!. Dave Price (finished my steel forms tonight, 26 hours and I made my owndowel pins for a approx.100 lb. press fit ) from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Feb 12 20:36:10 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics UAA03306 In a message dated 2/12/98 4:01:05 PM Pacific Standard Time,c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk writes: Sir D: Absolutely no flaming intended fromme - that's a fact as well. I never took it as a flame - in fact I'm puzzled by this comment.If you took any of my posts as flames, believe me they weren'tintended as such. This creates an interesting, little dilemma. Here we have 3 experiencedrodmakers, all of them Honourable and outstanding citizens. Doing thesamething, they most certainly did not achive the same results. It is 2 - 1 to"the softies" not counting calculations. Where does that leave me?Answer:Stranded - I simply can't explain what's on. Can You? Where all this leaves you is you have to try it for yourself. Builda hollow rod, and draw your own conclusions. The rod won't beunusable once you finish it, in fact without an identical rod tocompare it to, you probably won't even notice the difference.Again, let me qualify this with in a shorter or lighter line rod.If I ever make a 9 ft. cane rod I'll probably make it hollow inthe butt and mid section. Darryl Hayashida from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Feb 12 21:30:36 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics So,Could anybody conjecture on how a really nice casting Winston taperwouldrespond if built solid? Rob Hoffhines from jczimny@dol.net Thu Feb 12 21:43:05 1998 Subject: Re: Watco Oil David Price wrote: Hi All,Anybody use Watco Danish Oil for there rods. I have used it on manywoodworking projects and find it great. The can used to claim that ithas resins in it that harden the wood (like impregnating), but I don'tsee that on the cans anymore???. You can get a great finish by applyingit with 600 wet sand,the fine particles that you sand off fill in thepores in the wood and you get a really smoooooth finish!!. Dave Price (finished my steel forms tonight, 26 hours and I made my owndowel pins for a approx.100 lb. press fit )Watco is just very thin varnish. Perhaps 90% drying oil and 10% resin.John from jczimny@dol.net Thu Feb 12 21:43:07 1998 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: John, Thanks. My friend thought that this was an English rod. Had somefunky line designation like ZHCH, or some such. Again, I'm withoutnotes, working from a memory that was severly compromised by collegelife in the '70's. BrianHCH might be a 5 double taper designation. The Z I know not what. Bob isoriginally British. Emigrated to Canada some years ago.John from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 12 23:09:09 1998 Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:08:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Hollow building On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Ralph W Moon wrote:I have a few sample sections of Hexagraph rods and they are not solidgraphite. They are a thin sking of graphite fibers over a hard foaminterior. That is they duplicate the method E.C. Powell used for thehollow rods he built. He planed all of the pith away, laminated a pieceof Port orford cedar to the power fiber strip and then hollowed thecedar section. Hexagraph rods are not hollow built, but neither arethey solid graphie. That goes a long way to explaining things. The diagrams I've seen and what I'd heard made me think they were solid built, not 100% graphite but a graphite skin with foam made traingular like conventional cane. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 12 23:14:54 1998 Fri, 13 Feb 1998 13:14:41 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Block PLanes On Thu, 12 Feb 1998, Seymour Birnbaum wrote: I am really new to rod making process. I have read about the Stanley 091/2 as the plane of choice. What is the difference between the 09 1/2and the 60 1/2. Can the lower angle plane (60 1/2) be used just as well.I appreciate your help. Seymour Birnbaum If you already have the 60 1/2 try it out. Make sure you have a very fine cut and the thinest of openings in the throat and you'll prob find it'll work OK. If you're buying from scratch get the 9 1/2.The Record irons are better than Stanley but not as good as a Hock. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 13 00:41:32 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA9448 +0000 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod Hi, There is (was?) a British brand of bamboo rods called Milward. They showup fairly regularly inthe British sporting auctions at http://www.auctions-on- line.com You may want to go there and check past auction catalogs -- good chanceyoucan find yourfriend's rod (if it is the British Milward). George Bourke from bobpetti@vnet.IBM.COM Fri Feb 13 06:16:44 1998 Fri, 13 Feb 98 07:16:39 EST Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? Darryl writes:The answers to your questions depend a lot on what kind oftung oil you used. Brand name was Formby's. Other than that, I haven't a clue. Also you mention a glass smooth finish - pure tung oil gives you adecidedly matte finish that in no way would be described as glasssmooth. Yes, poor choice of words on my part. The matte finish you describe isexactly what I'm looking for - only smooth. Most of the responses indicate that I should strip and start over, sothat's what I'll do. No problem. I'm in no rush. I'd rather get it doneright than done quickly. Thank you all for your suggestions and encouragement. Back into deep lurk... Bob PettiEndicott, NYbobpetti@vnet.ibm.com from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Feb 13 06:28:11 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? To all - have dipped using Hope's TO Varnish. It dips ok, but is a littleslow to dry/cure. However, in my experience, when it does dry/cure, it isareally tough finish.RTyree from Brandstay@aol.com Fri Feb 13 06:29:04 1998 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod In a message dated 98-02-12 20:30:25 EST, you write: Groobie monsters eat the missing socks. They do it under the bed. Lint istheir.... well, like what mice leave laying around the pantry. ja from Brandstay@aol.com Fri Feb 13 06:29:20 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 98-02-12 20:36:47 EST, you write: Dick did the laminating do away with tearing fivbers where they bendgoing inand out of nodes? or do you straighten before laminating.? ja from harry37@epix.net Fri Feb 13 06:44:18 1998 HAA18240 Subject: Japaning to the list-- Has anyone used cold bluing compounds, such as Birchwood Casey coldblue, or similar products to oxidize nickel silver? It would seem thata prepared product would be easier to use than a "home recipe", but theCarmichael method has a track record-- Any thoughts or experiences from anyone? Greg Kuntz from DrBamboo@aol.com Fri Feb 13 06:59:37 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning The Jim Payne stuff is the best I've ever used.Birchwood Casey is atrial.Sometimeshave to redo 2-3 times and then it may not be even.GEM from Brandstay@aol.com Fri Feb 13 07:13:01 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 98-02-12 15:06:33 EST, you write: Bryant; where did you get the graphte tape? ja from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Feb 13 07:56:14 1998 Subject: Re: Watco Oil In a message dated 2/13/98 2:40:16 AM, you wrote: Dave - I think you will find this too tight to allow easy adjustment. Youshould have a snug, but sliding fit. Congratulations on finishing theproject. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Feb 13 08:10:07 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics In a message dated 2/13/98 3:31:37 AM, you wrote: Rob - Without seeing the taper, it is just conjecture, but if the rod isshortI suspect it will still be nice to cast, and may be a bit stiffer. If it'sover 8 feet, I think you may find weight becoming a problem. from d_price@global2000.net Fri Feb 13 08:10:54 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA22678 for; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 09:10:50 -0500 Subject: Re: Watco Oil TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/13/98 2:40:16 AM, you wrote: dowel pins for a approx.100 lb. press fit )>> Dave - I think you will find this too tight to allow easy adjustment. Youshould have a snug, but sliding fit. Congratulations on finishing theproject. around 100 lbs. is nothing for a set of screws to move and it ajustslike a dream. Did a some tests before I got started and seems that anyless could allow very slight twisting, and it dosn't take much to throwyou out enough to make tolerances off .001 impossible!!.Dave Price from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Feb 13 08:18:11 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Hollow-build Dynamics I would think a phone call to Winston might get some clarification on this issue. I have always found them to have excellent customer service (at least regarding their graphite...which I really like). At worst it would be a wasted phone call...at best they might at least share some knowledge and experience if not actual secrets...I'll leave this to those that are deep into this issue. I'll just worry about building a basic solid rod for now..... Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Hollow- build Dynamics Author: at tcpgate So,Could anybody conjecture on how a really nice casting Winston taperwouldrespond if built solid? Rob Hoffhines from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Fri Feb 13 08:49:48 1998 Subject: Re: Elephant Rod Whipping Silk Chris-Graham lied! Well mis-spoke :>). Belvoirdale sent me two spools ofred/black jasper last week ...there's still some left. Dennis from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Fri Feb 13 09:27:53 1998 emf h9451015; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 16:27:43 +0100 16:26:47+0100 Subject: WG: rodmakers gathering HelloMy name is Alex and I am from Europe(Austria)I want to visit the USA for 2-3 weeks in juli or august and I am planing to attend a Rodmakers Gathering.Therefore I should know some dates and contact persones.I prefer to visit a meeting in the northern regiones of the USA.My is favorit is Michigan. By the way I want spend some days withfishing in the USA. I am happy about every information I get. Thanks a lot Alex. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Feb 13 09:40:53 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Milward fly rod On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 19:10:08 -0500, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Hi Guys - A friend at work who knows I'm a bamboo rod addict asked me about arod he has. It's a 90" Milward, I think he said 'Trout Special,' ormaybe 'Troutsman Special.' Anybody know anything about rods made by Milward? Is this where theMilward binder came from? Should he worry about fishing this or is itof limited or modest value? Brian, Bob Milward does build rods in Vancouver, BC, Canada - last phone # I'vegot for him is 604-988-1958. Give him a shout.Suspect you have a English built Milward rod - not one of Bob Milward rodsof the Milward binder fame in light of the HCH line designation. Don from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Feb 13 09:51:33 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? In a message dated 2/13/98 4:17:56 AM Pacific Standard Time,bobpetti@vnet.IBM.COM writes: Brand name was Formby's. Other than that, I haven't a clue. Formby's is a tung oil - polyurethane varnish mix. I've usedit in the past. Apply a very thin coat and let it dry withouttouching it again. After the initial application it will starttacking up like a varnish. If you go back to it an hourlater and try to wipe off the excess you will have a mess. If what you have on it now is completely dry you can use600 wet dry sandpaper on a sanding block to get rid of thewrinkles, and re-apply over the sanded finish. Darryl Hayashida from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Feb 13 11:10:21 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA13920 for; Fri, 13 Feb 1998 17:52:33 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Planes/Finland RO>PS. Things are not that bad at all. After all, we allready have onegoldRO>medal from Nagano, and maybe more is coming. Sorry, Carsten, maybeBjornRO>Daehlie will do better next time ;-) Seppo, Seppo This fellow Bjårn Daehlie is Norwegian. I am danish, like in pastry. Havespend some time finding out, what you meant. I might be slow, thenorwegianis not. He is the skier, who 2 days ago beat the h... out of all thefinnish skiers down in Nagano. Gold medal, I think. :-). Personally, I think all this snow and ice You fellows from the northernparts of Scandinavia seem to enjoy is just a menace, preventing me fromfishing. Here in the southern parts of Scandinavia the season for seatroutin the rivers start at the middle of january. Flyfishing, my friend, noticefishing. How do You like that? :-) Best regards Carsten from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Fri Feb 13 11:45:40 1998 (AST) 13 Feb 98 12:50:51 -0500 0500Received: from jmckinnon.iti.ca by ottawa.iti.ca (Mercury 1.31);13 Feb 98 12:50:14 - 0500 Subject: Fergus Ont get together boundary="----=_NextPart_000_023A_01BD387D.ED9256A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01BD387D.ED9256A0 could Ted Knott get in touch with me off list about this eventThanksJohn F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~jmckinnon.students ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01BD387D.ED9256A0 = about this eventThanksJohn F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.cahttp://ottawa.iti.ca/~j=mckinnon.students ------=_NextPart_000_023A_01BD387D.ED9256A0-- from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Feb 13 13:07:54 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id NAA23922 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id NAA28197 for ; Fri, 13 Feb1998 Subject: Paul Young story Those of you who are fans of Paul Young rods will enjoy this reminisence: http://www.mich.com/~anglers/rw19/rw19me.htm ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 13 15:08:59 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20359 for Subject: Re: Milward fly rod At 08:54 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote: That is easy - same place where nodes go. Chris On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 17:29:04 -0800, Steven and Liisa Ramsey wrote: In reply to the following by Chris Bogart on 07:55 PM 2/12/98 - 0500;BrianYes it is probably one of Bob's rods - .binder by same name fame.Knowing Bob he would be insulted if your friend did not fish the damn thing! Chris OK, but what about the socks question? Steve Oh, so they're "filed away"?Art from gjflyfsh@juno.com Fri Feb 13 16:44:45 1998 17:43:21 EST Subject: THIS IS JUST A TEST DO NOT READ TESTjerry _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Feb 13 16:59:15 1998 Subject: bamboo I have been asked by several to report on the latest bamboo arrivial. Igotbundles of each size today - comments The 2 - 2 1/2" is the same quality that I have recieved in the past -some marks - few (if any) burns - a bit green but a little sunlight withdueboth the bamboo and myself good. All usable to make rods with.The 1 3/4" - 2" fewer marks and only one or two burns in 2 bundles -still a few marks - again a bit greenish - one odd small one in one bundle(itslipped in some how - good heft - a bit of mold on surface but split lookedbright and fresh ( no greying) again each culm could make a rod. Wayne from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Feb 13 17:01:32 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07128; Fri, 13 Feb 199818:01:08 Subject: Re: Watco Oil At 09:35 PM 2/12/98 -0800, David Price wrote:Hi All,Anybody use Watco Danish Oil for there rods. I have used it on manywoodworking projects and find it great. The can used to claim that ithas resins in it that harden the wood (like impregnating), but I don'tsee that on the cans anymore???. You can get a great finish by applyingit with 600 wet sand,the fine particles that you sand off fill in thepores in the wood and you get a really smoooooth finish!!. Dave Price (finished my steel forms tonight, 26 hours and I made my owndowel pins for a approx.100 lb. press fit ) Yes, Watco is good stuff. I use it as a first coat. Then I wipe on Helmsmanthinned with Watco; (watco:varnish ratio), 75:25, 50:50 and 25:75, eachbeing a separate coat with complete drying and a light rub with 0000steelwool between. Each coat is wiped 10-20 min after application. I use freshpaper towels (low lint) and wipe before the varnish gets tacky. Finally,2-3 days after the last coat I rub out with pumice in oil followed byrottenstone and water. I wrap the rod after finishing and use helmsmanthinned with Watco 25:75 on the wraps. I think, but can't prove, that usingthe thinned varnish gives better penetration to the blank I have restoredthree rods this way and the finsh seems to be durable. Because it is wipedafter each coat, the finish is rather thin, "close to the wood."You can use as many coats as you wish and build the finish thicker. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 13 17:12:03 1998 Subject: Re: Wood vs metal lathes Don,I don't have a Myford,I have a south bend bench lathe.It is quiteold,but still works good. The only thing that I did to improve it's accuracy.wastobuy a 6in.- six jaw - Zero set Chuck. The chuck cost $1200.00 , but you can'tget get any closer to " 0 " tolerance with any other chuck. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 13 17:38:16 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning Greg,All of the gun blues, aluminum blacks, etc.,don't work worth a damon Nickel Silver. The only solution I know of that is made exclusivly forNickel Silver and WORKS,is Payne's Original Formula. I make and sell this in two once bottles for $25.00. This is enough to do fifty rods or more. E-Mail me back your mailing address if you need any more info.I willsend you a brochure. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Feb 13 17:43:25 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? I too have used Formby's Tung Oil finish with good results. Because it's sothin, you need 5-6 coats. Darryl's instructions are correct -- let eachcoatdry at least 24 hours then sand down lightly and go over the rod with atackcloth. --Rich from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 13 18:03:55 1998 Subject: Re Solid glass tips and Eng. Bronzed Tip Tops Just in case anyone is interested. I have approx. 300 solid glass tipsectionsI'm looking to get rid of. I use them mainly to repair broken graphite rodtipsections. By installing a section of the glass tip into the broken graphitetip.They can also be used to make Ice fishing rods or to replace a brokenglasstip section on an old glass rod.There are three different sizes: 31 in. length 24 in. length39 in.length.143 butt.178 butt .174 butt.068 tip.071 tip .068 tip I'm selling these for $.50 each/min. order of ten tips.Plusshipping.If anyone wants to buy all of them,I'll give you a good price. I've also got some tip tops that I bronzed plated last year and didn'tnoticethat they had the larger loop untill after they were plated.Any one who likes the larger loop will get a steal at $.75 each,reg price$2.00ea. I have 61-size 422-size 4 1/296-size 5Anyone interested, E-Mail me. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from tball@mail.portup.com Fri Feb 13 18:18:47 1998 Subject: Surf Rod Redo's boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD389A.EFFE9580" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD389A.EFFE9580 A customer has asked me to redo some surf rods for him. He has =inherited these from his parents who were charter members of a Casting =Club from somewhere in the East Coast. Some are fiberglass, some are =bamboo and one appears to be a greenhart. He brought me 10 rods and 8 =handles. Doesn't really expect to use these for resale or for =historical preservation. "See if you can get some of these to be =servicable and use the rest for scavenging for line guides etc." Rods =are from 5' to 7'3" and the handles are from 2' to 2'6". Rods have male =ferrules on their butt and the handles have a combination reelseat and =female ferrule. I need help locating some line guides, male ferrules w/ =matching female ferrules with reelseats attached to put on the various =pieces. Ferrules are about the .900 ID size. I will be very grateful = restore these rods for use or at least for wall hangers for him to brag =about.Thanks for all the help being furnished on the web. Keep up the = Tom from Trout Lake ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD389A.EFFE9580 A customer has asked me to redosome = servicable and use the rest for scavenging for line guides = have male ferrules on their butt and the handles have a combination = matching female ferrules with reelseats attached to put on the about. = Tom from Trout Lake ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD389A.EFFE9580-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 13 18:31:21 1998 Subject: RE:Surf Rod Redo's RO>A customer has asked me to redo some surf rods for him. He hasinherited thRO> Thanks for all the help being furnished on the web. Keep up thegreat wRO> Tom from Trout Lake Tom, Classic Angler had some large ferrules and such in their catalogs andon-line at their url: http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm Don't know if any are that large. Don Burns from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 13 18:32:26 1998 Subject: Re: Surf Rod Redo's Tom,I may be able to help you with the ferrules and reel seats ( custommaking them, to fit your rods ) but, the cost may be alot more than the rods areworth. If all other channels fail, let me know. I'll see what I can do for you. Dave LeClair from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Feb 13 22:41:36 1998 Subject: Re: bamboo I just got a bale of the larger poles today, It all looks useable, one stickhad a small growers mark two had some burns in the butt and very fewleafnodes. The was some exterior mold on the centers of a few poles where aircouldn't get into the bale, but it wiped off easily. Only one bad water marksmack on the middle of one pole...so I cut out 10" out of the middle of thepole-no problem. Some poles felt extrordinarily heavy (!) and like I said allseem usable. Rob Hoffhines from cphisey@neca.com Fri Feb 13 23:11:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re Solid glass tips and Eng. Bronzed Tip Tops At 07:00 PM 2/13/98 EST, you wrote:Just in case anyone is interested. I have approx. 300 solid glass tipsectionsI'm looking to get rid of. I use them mainly to repair broken graphite rodtipsections. By installing a section of the glass tip into the brokengraphitetip.They can also be used to make Ice fishing rods or to replace a brokenglasstip section on an old glass rod.There are three different sizes: 31 in. length 24 in. length39 in.length.143 butt.178 butt .174 butt.068 tip.071 tip .068 tip I'm selling these for $.50 each/min. order of ten tips.Plusshipping.If anyone wants to buy all of them,I'll give you a good price. I've also got some tip tops that I bronzed plated last year and didn'tnoticethat they had the larger loop untill after they were plated.Any one who likes the larger loop will get a steal at $.75 each,regprice$2.00ea. I have 61-size 422-size 4 1/296-size 5Anyone interested, E-Mail me. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room Hi Dave,Those tip tops sound like just the ticket to go along with the bronze wire Igot with the snake maker.Could you send me 20 of Size #4, 20 of Size #4.5and 15 of #5 . Also while we are at it 4 packs size.024 bronzed wirepacks,4of the .026 bronzed wire packs,and 2 of the bronzed .029 packs.E-mail meifyou can do,you should still have my credit card #.Charlie Hisey from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 13 23:54:43 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA12030 +0000 Subject: Re: bamboo Is that Demarest bamboo? George Bourke ----------From: WayneCatt@aol.com Subject: bambooDate: Friday, February 13, 1998 2:55 PM I have been asked by several to report on the latest bamboo arrivial.I gotbundles of each size today - comments The 2 - 2 1/2" is the same quality that I have recieved in the past-some marks - few (if any) burns - a bit green but a little sunlight withdueboth the bamboo and myself good. All usable to make rods with.The 1 3/4" - 2" fewer marks and only one or two burns in 2 bundles-still a few marks - again a bit greenish - one odd small one in onebundle (itslipped in some how - good heft - a bit of mold on surface but splitlookedbright and fresh ( no greying) again each culm could make a rod. Wayne from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 14 07:14:32 1998 0700 Subject: Richard Tyree Richard, Would you email me directly and put in body of note your email address -your mailer clears it and your old address doesn't work. Thanx, Don from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Feb 14 07:46:45 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Art Port wrote: Tom,Not to be pedantic (or insulting), if the label is REALLY spelledDirig-I-o, I'd give it a pass. It's a counterfeit! Thomas spelled his:"Dirigo", according to Martin Keane's book! (I got beat to the comments onthe Ed/Vince Marinaro interchange--had to throw a little of myself intothisone).Forgive me,Art Port Art's right, Tom. Take a look at the Maine State flag.George from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat Feb 14 07:49:23 1998 Subject: R: rodmakers gathering Hello Alex,I read your E-amil message on the rodmakers listserver.I am an Italian Rodmakers lister, my name is Marco Boretti, and I live inthe north of Italy, and I came many time per year in Austria, for fishingand for business, besides I am a friend and collector of Walter Brunner.If you want to contact me for future meeting, pls., send E-mail messageandI resend to you my compleate addres. Sincerely,Marco ----------Da: Christoph A: 'RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu' Data: venerdá 13 febbraio 1998 16.26 HelloMy name is Alex and I am from Europe(Austria)I want to visit the USA for 2-3 weeks in juli or august and I am planingto attend a Rodmakers Gathering.Therefore I should know some dates and contact persones.I prefer to visit a meeting in the northern regiones of the USA.My is favorit is Michigan. By the way I want spend some days withfishing in the USA. I am happy about every information I get. Thanks a lot Alex. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 14 08:54:47 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Tom,I'm trying to determine the beginnings of a Thomas Dirigo"trademark".Does your friend's rod have a thin black silk band in the middle of thered ferrule wraps (reminiscient of Carrie Steven's streamer fly heads)?Thanks,Reed from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Feb 14 09:12:11 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning I just tried the kodak rapid fixer method of darkening NS. The colorturns a sort of pewter, not real dark. Anybody have any knowledge aboutthis method? Brian from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 10:14:15 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio In a message dated 2/14/98 1:48:55 PM, you wrote: Boy, I got all you Maineiacs up in arms this time! from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 10:21:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Thomas Dirigio In a message dated 2/14/98 2:59:11 PM, you wrote: No- just red thread on the ferrules. The rod looks like the third one fromthetop on page 84 of Keane's book, except that the real seat is all NS. There isa 1/4 inch band at the cork check, and 8 trim bands. If I had to guess Iwouldput the rod about 1910, but that is just a guess. The stripping guide is asnake guide. This is the first Thomas I have seen that on. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 10:35:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japaning In a message dated 2/14/98 3:18:07 PM, you wrote: Brian - Polish off what you have and try again. The stuff is not asagressiveas the Payne solution. You have to start with very fresh, clean metal. Iusually spin the part in a drill and polish with very fine steel wool. Don'ttouch the part afterwards. Dip in solution A, and then in solution B. Rinseinwater. If it is not dark enough repeat the process, but never dip from B toAwithout rinsing, or you will "kill" solution A. If you keep going you will getthe blue color. I like the mottled Bronze blue and stop there usually. Somealloys react faster than others, sometimes just solution A is enough, butitshould work with any NS alloy. Coat with lacquer or whatever ASAP, asthecolor will fade otherwise. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Feb 14 10:47:22 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/14/98 1:48:55 PM, you wrote: Boy, I got all you Maineiacs up in arms this time! Not really. We just never miss a chance to ride someone, even a friend.Goes with the ice and snow I suppose.George from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 11:33:12 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA16947 for Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio At 11:11 AM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 2/14/98 1:48:55 PM, you wrote: Boy, I got all you Maineiacs up in arms this time! Not so Tom,I merely used to summer in ME, and I don't think I EVER saw the State Flag(unless it was at 65 mph on the ME Pike). I just couldn't resist a littlefun with an unusual word. Hell, I learned what it means through being awiseass Noo Yawkah and pointing out your foible. Everybody loins yasumpin'new ev'ry day right? Fuhgeddaboutit,Art from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 11:39:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA18339 for Subject: Re: Japaning At 10:10 AM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:I just tried the kodak rapid fixer method of darkening NS. The colorturns a sort of pewter, not real dark. Anybody have any knowledge aboutthis method? Brian Brian,After reading your post and Tom's reply I had my interest piqued.Where can I find the methodology of using the Rapidfix procedure? I think Imay already have enough of the chemicals to try that one at no cost. I don'trecall seeing it in Wayne's or Hoagy's book, but it's been awhile since Iread either of them cover-to-cover. I'm just rehoning my blades after ahiatus of 10 years or so.Thanks,Art Port from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Feb 14 14:02:17 1998 Subject: Bamboo magazine Dave,Here it is saturday and no bamboo magazine. The only things of interestwereThePlaning Form newsletter and VS swimsuit catalog for my wife.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Feb 14 14:08:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Milward fly rod Brian,I don't know anything about Milward rods but you brought up someinterestingpoints otherwise. Something I always wondered about was, if the littleblackbox in airplanes is made of indestructable material why don't they makethewhole plane out of it?Bret from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sat Feb 14 14:32:21 1998 doing-bs Subject: nice comments on mag (fwd) Got another forward from FF@ regarding the Cane rod magazine. Don'tknowif this guy bought his at a shop or got it by subscription. Thomas PenroseBend, OR From: Steve Stillabower Subject: The Bamboo Fly Rod Hi All, O.K., I'm not a reviewer, but I got my first issue yesterday, and had tocomment on it. I like it. Only 46 pages, but a lot of good articles and info. An essay byA.K. Best on why he fishes bamboo and a how to on hackeling dries (heshouldknow). Lot of internet URL's, couple pages worth, of bamboo relatedsites. All in all, a very nice effort. Hope it is not like my dry flies andfloats Steve from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Feb 14 14:41:25 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning Check out page 117 of the Garrison-Carmichael SECOND ed. It works forme!! from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Feb 14 15:03:13 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio Tom,Thanks, that helps me somewhat in dating that wrap. I have a 1930'svintage Dirigo and a 1947 Dirigo; both have that accent wrap. So I'venarrowed it down to 20 years.What about the Thomas hookkeeper, built onto the winding check?Doesyour friend's rod have it?Best regards,Reed P.S. - I like F.E. THomas rods. from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Feb 14 15:15:27 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine Got mine today.I read it cover to cover and it's okay. I would liketo see more stuff on rod building, but that's probablyjust because that's where my interest is. Darryl Hayashida from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Sat Feb 14 15:37:22 1998 8.7/8.7) idQAA21524 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sat, 14 Feb 1998 16:35:24 - Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine Still nothing here in northeastern PA : from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 16:17:37 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Thomas Dirigio In a message dated 2/14/98 9:08:02 PM, you wrote: No hook keeper at all on the rod. Chris B Stopped by yesterday and cast therod. He told me you would have liked it. from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 14 16:33:02 1998 Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener Art - Even though youse messed with a Joisey guy, I will give you a break.Thechemicals come marked just as I described to Brian. A large bottle ofsolutionA, and a small bottle of solution B. Pour some of each into a smallerresealable bottle and follow the directions I gave Brian. Solution B willdevelop a milky precipitate, but will work several times anyway. Discardsolution A and use new stuff each time. from thramer@presys.com Sat Feb 14 17:06:35 1998 0000 Subject: Coating For Blued Ferrules After starting a line of resin finished rods I had the problem of nolonger being able to coat the ferrules with varnish as was my practice.A neat trick that Chrid McDowell came up with was to wax the rods withpaste floor wax that contained a high percentage of carnauba.Much moreresistant to wear than it sounds and I find that many people appreciatethe patina that the rtesulting finish will eventually give to theferrules. The varnish does not stick so I save the wax for last.Chris & I have had good luck with Payne formula from the rod room andOspho Blue. The Ospho is more difficult to use, gives a greyer (sp)color but is quite durable on its own without protective coatings.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Feb 14 17:13:53 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine RO> Still nothing here in northeastern PA :usually gets it a day later than the rest of the world. Maybe theRO>postal folks at my P.O. are enjoying my magazines, etc.???RO>Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm Didn't get to me, just north of Los Angeles! Don B. from thramer@presys.com Sat Feb 14 17:16:04 1998 0000 Subject: Plane Waxing I have given some thought to the plane waxing discussion. I still havegrave reservations about the wax transfering to the stick and causingpoor glue adhesion. Three solutions I have come up with:1) Use an unwaxed plane for the final 1-2 passes on each side thusinsuring that the sticks do not have a wax coating.2) As a pipesmoker the finish on a quality pipe is 100% carnauba wax.True carnauba cannot be applied any other way than by buffing it in asit is too hard. I believe that a negligable amount of wax would betranferred to the stick. It is difficult to appreciate how hard carnaubais. Find a pipe and see if you can scratch it! As an aside I have alwaysthought that carnauba would be a great way to finish reel seat fillers.3) Buy a beveling machine A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 17:21:05 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA07848 for Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener At 05:32 PM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote:Art - Even though youse messed with a Joisey guy, I will give you a break.Thechemicals come marked just as I described to Brian. A large bottle ofsolutionA, and a small bottle of solution B. Pour some of each into a smallerresealable bottle and follow the directions I gave Brian. Solution B willdevelop a milky precipitate, but will work several times anyway. Discardsolution A and use new stuff each time. Tom,Not to put too fine a point on it----WHAT CHEMICALS?????I thought we were talking about Kodak's Rapid Fixer. I'm a photographer (byhobby- not profession) and I actually have some of the Kodak Rapid Fix.Theyain't no part A and part B; it's a fixer for developing film and prints. Ifall you have is some magic liquids in two jars I'm right back where Istarted. I'm not trying to cut one of the other fellows on the list out ofhis profit, I just happen to HAVE what it sounds like you used in mybasement right now! (Solution B sounds like a developer to me,precipitatingout a milky residue)Not too long ago (in dog years) Eric Leiser was touting using"photo-dyeing" for turning cheap Indian necks into high quality duns etc.After reading his recipes (and not yet in possession of my own darkroom) Idecided that you hadda be NUTS to go to that kind of trouble for a neck (notto even consider the cost of failures in the experimental stages!) So whenyou mentioned the Rapid Fix by name, I thought maybe this would be alittlesimpler than the necks (now that I Do have the darkroom). In the past Ijustfigured nickel silver was good enough without screwing with its finish. guys in that boat race a century or so ago.Art from jbr842@airmail.net Sat Feb 14 18:26:54 1998 (/\##/\ Smail3.1.30.16 #30.237) with smtp for 0600 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Dave,Here it is saturday and no bamboo magazine. The only things of interestwereThePlaning Form newsletter and VS swimsuit catalog for my wife.Bret Just received my copy in the mail. I would suppose others who ordered itshould receive theirs soon. Hope this encourages those who wait withbaited breath... Jim Bryan from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Feb 14 18:30:06 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow building In a message dated 98-02-12 02:47:57 EST, you write: Tony I'd be afraid any comparison would be unfair, because I did'nt have the hexlong enough or under any variety of conditions. I will tell you that the hexhad more of a bamboo feel than my Sage rods. But it felt heavy, you know?Not lively like a bamboo and not quick like graphite. Make any sense? Maybe I'm being shallow, but the one I tried out (and a couple others I'vejust played with and not even strung up) didn't have enough attraction formeto prompt any further investigation. Although I still have- and occasionally use- a couple of expensive graphiterods, I frankly don't enjoy them enough to consider adopting any more tokeepthem company. Sorry I can't be more helpful, but there it is. Davy from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 14 19:10:35 1998 Subject: Books To All Bill Finks awaited offering of his personal sporting book collection isnow posted on the home page, with a link to the list. click on thetext.. http//home1.gte.net/jfoster.index.htm Please carry the business off the listproc, no cheapos, I've included anactive e-mail address with the list. Regards Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 14 19:33:52 1998 Subject: Re: Books OOOps don't even know my own phone no. http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm sorry Jerry from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 19:48:24 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA16085 for Subject: Re: Books At 07:32 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:OOOps don't even know my own phone no. http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm sorry JerryJerry,Don't worry about it. I'm sure we all have your site bookmarked already.I've already checked the list and it's impressive. My only question is: whycouldn't I click the other URL? The one in this e-mail is html compatible(or whatever-the-hell-I'm-trying-to-say) but the other one wasn't! Whycome??? Huh?>Art from saltwein@swbell.net Sat Feb 14 19:54:27 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Got mine today.I read it cover to cover and it's okay. I would liketo see more stuff on rod building, but that's probablyjust because that's where my interest is. I agree Darryl. My only other complaint would be that the pictures werenot captioned. If I'm looking at photos I would like to know who thepeople are, even if I don't know who the people are. Regards, Steve from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Feb 14 19:59:31 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? Dear Listers Has anyone considered building a UV drying box? I realize (boy, do I) that it takes a little while to get to the point whereyou start varnishing your product, but this will help, especially if you areusing a slow-drying product and/or are dipping. My box is way larger than would be necessary for rods, as I built it bigenough for a 'cello. Just cobble together an upright plywood box about afootor so higher than your longest rod section is long. Leave about a foot-and-a-half clearance (total width) and vent it real good on top. All you should need is one (max. two) four-foot fixtures and some tin foillining. Maybe cost you about twenty potatoes excluding the bulb(s) which Ibought so long ago the price would be meaningless even if I couldremember it. All this may be old news, but I haven't seen it mentioned yet, so here it is, sceptical and feared that this might adversely effect the varnish'slongevityor the tone quality of the instrument. I found that they have long been incommon use by highly regarded instrument makers here and in Europe and Ihavenever heard a hint that this process has any ill effects whatever. I was inmy trying-to-find-the-magic-formula phase when I built mine and someof theconcoctions I applied would probably be tacky twenty years on without theUVbox. Also, I've been using Tru-Oil by Birchwood Casey and like it a lot. Isanybody else using it? Any problems? Davy from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 14 20:29:33 1998 Subject: Re: Books Content-Type: Art I forgot the : http:// thats why i resent it, sometimes I get the feeling some of us don't knowBOOKMARK regardsJerry from cphisey@neca.com Sat Feb 14 21:27:38 1998 Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener At 06:38 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:At 05:32 PM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote:Art - Even though youse messed with a Joisey guy, I will give you abreak. Thechemicals come marked just as I described to Brian. A large bottle ofsolutionA, and a small bottle of solution B. Pour some of each into a smallerresealable bottle and follow the directions I gave Brian. Solution B willdevelop a milky precipitate, but will work several times anyway.Discardsolution A and use new stuff each time. Tom,Not to put too fine a point on it----WHAT CHEMICALS?????I thought we were talking about Kodak's Rapid Fixer. I'm a photographer(byhobby- not profession) and I actually have some of the Kodak Rapid Fix.Theyain't no part A and part B; it's a fixer for developing film and prints. Ifall you have is some magic liquids in two jars I'm right back where Istarted. I'm not trying to cut one of the other fellows on the list out ofhis profit, I just happen to HAVE what it sounds like you used in mybasement right now! (Solution B sounds like a developer to me,precipitatingout a milky residue)Not too long ago (in dog years) Eric Leiser was touting using"photo-dyeing" for turning cheap Indian necks into high quality duns etc.After reading his recipes (and not yet in possession of my own darkroom)Idecided that you hadda be NUTS to go to that kind of trouble for a neck(notto even consider the cost of failures in the experimental stages!) So whenyou mentioned the Rapid Fix by name, I thought maybe this would be alittlesimpler than the necks (now that I Do have the darkroom). In the past Ijustfigured nickel silver was good enough without screwing with its finish. guys in that boat race a century or so ago.Art Art,I also am a photographer(by profession),what you need is Kodak RapidFixerwith Hardener,it is a two part fixer.It is used for both film and prints.Thepart B contains sulfuric acid which is the hardening agent.It comes inliquid form with parts A$B. I get mine in 5 gallon cubes,but the cat#of thequart size is 146- 4106 (this is about 5yrs old).Hope this helps with yourquestion(Kodak also makes a powder mix called rapid fix,you need theliquid.Charlie Hisey from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 14 21:49:35 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA22112 for Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener At 10:27 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:At 06:38 PM 2/14/98 -0500, you wrote:At 05:32 PM 2/14/98 EST, you wrote:Art - Even though youse messed with a Joisey guy, I will give you abreak. Thechemicals come marked just as I described to Brian. A large bottle ofsolutionA, and a small bottle of solution B. Pour some of each into a smallerresealable bottle and follow the directions I gave Brian. Solution B willdevelop a milky precipitate, but will work several times anyway.Discardsolution A and use new stuff each time. Tom,Not to put too fine a point on it----WHAT CHEMICALS?????I thought we were talking about Kodak's Rapid Fixer. I'm a photographer(byhobby- not profession) and I actually have some of the Kodak Rapid Fix.Theyain't no part A and part B; it's a fixer for developing film and prints. Ifall you have is some magic liquids in two jars I'm right back where Istarted. I'm not trying to cut one of the other fellows on the list out ofhis profit, I just happen to HAVE what it sounds like you used in mybasement right now! (Solution B sounds like a developer to me,precipitatingout a milky residue)Not too long ago (in dog years) Eric Leiser was touting using"photo-dyeing" for turning cheap Indian necks into high quality duns etc.After reading his recipes (and not yet in possession of my owndarkroom) Idecided that you hadda be NUTS to go to that kind of trouble for a neck(notto even consider the cost of failures in the experimental stages!) Sowhenyou mentioned the Rapid Fix by name, I thought maybe this would be alittlesimpler than the necks (now that I Do have the darkroom). In the past Ijustfigured nickel silver was good enough without screwing with its finish. youseguys in that boat race a century or so ago.Art Art,I also am a photographer(by profession),what you need is Kodak RapidFixerwith Hardener,it is a two part fixer.It is used for both film and prints.Thepart B contains sulfuric acid which is the hardening agent.It comes inliquid form with parts A$B. I get mine in 5 gallon cubes,but the cat#ofthequart size is 146- 4106 (this is about 5yrs old).Hope this helps with yourquestion(Kodak also makes a powder mix called rapid fix,you need theliquid.Charlie Hisey Charlie,Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize there was a liquid; theignorance of the dilletante I guess. I'll have to check my local photosupplier and see if it's worth getting a quart for this purpose. If it hasany kind of shelf life I'll probably be better off just getting somethingthat's dedicated for the ferrules (and comes in 1 or 2 oz bottles)!Again, thanks,Art from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Feb 14 22:36:38 1998 Subject: ns darkening I bought some rapid fixer from REC components, and they directed me topour solution A into a 9" GLASS pie pan tocover the parts, and then add 2 caps of the B part and stir. Then leave it alone for ten hours. What you get is jello with the parts in it anoverall nice, hard pewter color. Tried using just the A and then justthe B parts, and on some hardware (Bellinger) it works great and almostturns egg plant purple. Baily Woods ferrules just don't seem to want to take that dark color with this method. I'm going to try some of DaveLeC.'s Payne Formula, though it sounds like the price went up! . .."Brian from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Feb 15 00:24:07 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? DAVY, I,M NEW AT THIS GAME AND DOING ALLOT OF EXPERIMENTING WITH VARIOUSFINISHES.NEVER HEARD OF A UV BOX. WHAT DOES IT DO AND HOW DOES IT WORK? MARK HALLOWELL from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Feb 15 00:32:17 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine WHAT IS BAMBOO MAG? I'M THE NEW GUY ON THE BLOCK. ALSO I'M GOINGTO ENGLANDSOON AND IF YOU OR ANYONE NEEDS ANYTHING, IE ROD PARTS ETC JUST LETME KNOW MARK HALLOWELL from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Feb 15 01:38:30 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? Dear Mark Sorry, I could have been a little clearer with my last posting. A UV (ultraviolet) box is just a box in which to dry your varnish morequickly. It has one or more fluorescent light fixtures with ultraviolettubes. One thing I should have mentioned is that my box, in the interest of beingcheap, has had all but one light fixture unplugged for rod finishing. Itherefore hooked up a little drying motor to keep the rod sections movingandavoid any unevenness. The box makes a huge difference, especially with high quality varnisheswhichare always slow drying if they are any good. Depending on your varnish,youshould be able to cut maybe 75% off your drying time. Feel free to mail me direct if you have specific questions. Davy from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sun Feb 15 02:04:01 1998 ; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 21:03:51 +1300 Subject: Re: color preserver-three in one Poly-Varnish-Eng. BronzedGuides. Dave .. could you plese send me a brochure . I would also be interested in the wirethat you use for the Englishbronzed guides . I mainly restore old englishrods and a lot of them have the bronxed guides thanks iank At 09:49 PM 30/01/98 EST, you wrote:John, thanks for the nice words.I'm glad you like my poly-varnish.I stillsell it in one once bottles for $2.50. I've got a new brochure beingprinted.Newitems.I'm also going to keep selling my English Bronzed Guides.I was going todropthem,but too many guys still want them ,so i'll keep them comming. If anyone wants one of my new brochures,just E-mail me and I willsendyou out one. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Feb 15 06:42:05 1998 Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:41:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine On Sun, 15 Feb 1998 FLYROD777@aol.com wrote: WHAT IS BAMBOO MAG? I'M THE NEW GUY ON THE BLOCK. ALSO I'M GOINGTO ENGLANDSOON AND IF YOU OR ANYONE NEEDS ANYTHING, IE ROD PARTS ETC JUSTLET ME KNOW MARK HALLOWELL Mark,welcome aboard, but PLEASE STOP YELLING. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Feb 15 07:06:47 1998 Subject: Elephant Silk Thanks for info HAA02370 To Dennis, Don and George. Thanks for the info about Belvoirdale,I have mailed him this morning to enquire about his stock of silk. I havejust had a thought about maybe twisting two different colours of my flytying silk together to see if this has the same effect. Any I will let youknow about the results if you are interested, because the twistingcolouredeffect of the Elephant silk I think, really set off a bamboo rod very well. Regards Mick Woodruff. from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 08:07:06 1998 Subject: leader faq Jerry;Where is the leader faq these days? All I seem to get is HTTP 404 notfound. If this faq is no longer available, does any one have a good leaderformula for fishing #26 dry flys with a 5 wt.? ThanksJohn Channer from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Feb 15 08:54:02 1998 Subject: Re: Thomas Dirigio TSmithwick@aol.com wrote:No hook keeper at all on the rod. Chris B Stopped by yesterday and casttherod. He told me you would have liked it.Tom,As you know, the first tools Chris made in his new shop were virtualthumbscrews; he uses these to torture me with rods. I'm sure I would like the rod. Unfortunately, I already have a Dirigoof that length and line weight, (one of my favorite rods) so I can'tjustify a second, even at such a good price. Doubtless, this rod has adifferent action (Thomas produced each model in 5+ actions) than mine...No, I just blew my rod budget on an 8' Dirigo (which Chris would love). Chris,I picked up two good silk lines last week, one is a very pretty amber4+DT that is ready to test drive on my new rod. I used Albolene insteadof Mucilin, just to see the difference. A very nice feel, shouldn'tleave the guides dirty, and keeps my hands soft and clean. Best regards,Reed from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 15 09:03:53 1998 Subject: Re: leader faq John Look under the software icon and download one ( depending on the kind ofpc you have ) of Brcue Conner's leader maker tools. you can do ityourself..or you can use his program online..same page regards Jerry from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 15 09:37:02 1998 Subject: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener Art- The product is Kodak catalog # 146 4106. Solution A (fixer)containsAmmonium thiosulfate, sodium acetate, boric acid and acetic acid.Solution B(hardener) contains sulphuric acid and aluminum sulfate. I am not aphotographer and that is all I can tell you.That island you live on, would that be Liberty Island, where youse guys putupthat statue that shows it's butt to Joisey City, or would that be EllisIsland, or would that be some other island youse swiped from us?I live in Wenonah NJ, near Philadelphia. from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 09:47:09 1998 Subject: leader faq Jerry;Thanks for the info, you must have the patience of a saint.I promise, nexttime I will look before I ask.John Channer from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun Feb 15 09:56:02 1998 Subject: books Dear Sirs,Since it is on everyones mind (lusting after Mr. Fink's books) I haveaninquiry about a book I just found by George and Jacques Herter. The titleis SECRET FRESH AND SALT WATER FISHING TRICKS OF THE WORLD'S FIFTYBESTPROFESSIONAL FISHERMEN-plus the professional secrets of fishing rodsandhow fishing rods are made. Privite Printing,1949. Mine is a 10th editionprinted in 1961. My question comes from the fact that I have never seenHerters 'Professional Manufacturer's Guide' printed the same year. How dothe two compare to each other? Or do they?Thanks for the helpGWH from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Feb 15 10:37:16 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo magazine My copy arrived in Saturdays mail. Have not had a chance to read onlyscannedthe pages. Mark Cole from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 10:49:25 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA04480 for Subject: Re: Kodak rapid fixer with hardener At 10:36 AM 2/15/98 EST, you wrote:Art- The product is Kodak catalog # 146 4106. Solution A (fixer)containsAmmonium thiosulfate, sodium acetate, boric acid and acetic acid.Solution B(hardener) contains sulphuric acid and aluminum sulfate. I am not aphotographer and that is all I can tell you.That island you live on, would that be Liberty Island, where youse guysput upthat statue that shows it's butt to Joisey City, or would that be EllisIsland, or would that be some other island youse swiped from us?I live in Wenonah NJ, near Philadelphia. Tom,1) Thanks for the info, it should help in deciding whether I'll usethat method or opt for a more cost-effective one.2)'SfarasIknow we only swiped ONE island in a race and I guessWenonah is afur piece from MY Metropolitan Area. Awhile back there was ayacht race to determine whether Staten Island would belong to you guys orus. Capt Billopp won for us (depending on your point of view)-- made itaround in under 24 hrs. You've probably heard of the lottery where firstprize is a week in Philly and second prize is TWO weeks in Philly? Well,weon the Island STILL aren't sure we're better off in the shadow of the greatcity of MANHATTAN (oh and all those other boroughs out there somewhereorother) or whether we should be part of the Turnpike State. Anyway you and I will probably bump into each other somewhere inthis area someday, probably at the Somerset Flyfishing Show. My chapterofTU (CJTU) has a booth there every year and I'm usually there at some pointin the show, working it. If you fish any of the Lehigh Valley streams,lemmeknow and we can probably set up a date convenient to both of us during thesummer (I'm one of them damn teachers who get the summers off so wecan goout and waste the taxpayers' money -- which I do enthusiastically!). You take care and we'll be seeing each other on the web-- that's forsure.Art from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 15 11:27:01 1998 Subject: Re: leader faq John My pleasure, small thing..keeping 60's is a bbig thing Jerry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 15 11:58:20 1998 Subject: Garrison new edition Is the new edition of this book different than the old one circa 1977? Ifsowhat is different?Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:14:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re Solid glass tips and Eng. Bronzed Tip Tops Charlie,I'll have these items out to you this week. Thanks for the order. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:25:51 1998 Subject: Re: Japaning Brian, from what I understand, this concoction does'nt work very well.You are supposed to leave your N/S part in this solution for ten hours to getthe black color. People i've talked to say they have even left the part in fortwenty hours and still did not get a BLACK color.They ended up with a BROWNcolor. The only solution that imparts a truely black finish on N/S,is PaynesoXidizer, which is made exclusively for blackening Nickel Silver. Dave LeClair from MasjC1@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:38:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo magazine OOPS! Thats Houston, TX. Mark from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:38:31 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Tung Oil Problem? You want to be careful with forced drying of your finishes as you could getalligatoring.Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:52:09 1998 Subject: Re: color preserver-three in one Poly-Varnish-Eng. BronzedGuides. Ian,I sent a new brochure out to you a couple of days ago. You may be interested in my Snake Maker, if you don't have one already. You canmake snake guides in either American twist or English twist ( Reversed).Using the English Bronzed Wires, you can make duplicate snake guides forthose old rods with English Bronzed guides.When you get my brochure, let meknow if have any questions. I'm always glad to help. Dave LeClair from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 15 12:52:17 1998 Subject: Re: leader faq John,Here is a leader that Gary Borger gave me for small flies. Works great forme.1ft of .013, 4ft .010, 4ft 4x and 1ft 6x or 1ft 7x. or if you want alonger leader try this one. 5ft .017, 5ft .013, 1ft .010, 3ft .007, 1ft.005.Bret from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 14:30:33 1998 Subject: leaders Greg;Thanks alot for the leader formula, I tried to download the software thisA.M. and just now got back online after the disaster I caused myself, I'llbe gunshy about downloading for quite a while.John Channer from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 15 14:49:37 1998 Subject: Lehigh Valley Art - We do indeed fish the Little Lehigh often in the Trico season, andoftenfish the Big Bushkill and the Broadhead in the Spring. Keep in touch, andwewill arrange something. from ramseys@directcon.net Sun Feb 15 15:11:25 1998 zeus.directcon.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA08263 for Subject: Re: leaders In reply to the following by john channer on 12:19 PM 2/15/98;Greg;Thanks alot for the leader formula, I tried to download the software thisA.M. and just now got back online after the disaster I caused myself, I'llbe gunshy about downloading for quite a while.John Channer I could use a little help finding the software...all I located was a JAVAapplet page with the program online.Am I to understand that there is a downloadable stand-alone program?Help would be appreciated, as I struck out on my own Steve Steven and Liisa Ramsey Cameron Park, CaliforniaOur public PGP key is available fromhttp://www-swiss.ai.mit.edu/~bal/pks-toplev.html from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 15 15:52:20 1998 Subject: Re: leaders john,I never download any files from any1 anymore because I have beenscrewed up bythem.bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Feb 15 16:07:05 1998 Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley RO>Art - We do indeed fish the Little Lehigh often in the Trico season, andoftRO>fish the Big Bushkill and the Broadhead in the Spring. Keep in touch,and weRO>will arrange something. Tom, Sorry for the incomplete 1st message - the family cat walked across thekeyboard and posted it for me. If I get back to visit my brother-in-law (Bethlehem, PA) soon, I'd liketo fish with you also. Don Burns from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 15 17:25:55 1998 Subject: Re: leaders John What happened to your download,, i hope it wasn't my fault Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 15 18:30:52 1998 Subject: web Doug Hall finally has started a web page, how high tech, got it postedunder the makers Jerry from harsha@aros.net Sun Feb 15 18:47:09 1998 Subject: Bamboo I picked up a Chinese decorative wall fan. It is made of paper andbamboo. The bamboo came from a culm with a diameter of 5-6 inches, andthe power fibers are about 1/4 inch thick. Does anyone know what typeof bamboo this is and could it be used to build rods. See a pic at: http://www.aros.net/~harsha/QVLIN021.jpg Thanks, Mike from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 18:59:54 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09723 for Subject: Re: leaders At 12:19 PM 2/15/98, you wrote:Greg;Thanks alot for the leader formula, I tried to download the software thisA.M. and just now got back online after the disaster I caused myself, I'llbe gunshy about downloading for quite a while.John Channer John,I downloaded it myself (due to your interest and inquisitiveness) and hadnoproblem (YET). I haven't unzipped or installed it yet. My question, ofcourse: if I got it successfully, does disaster still await? I'm not goingto run the thing unless I hear it was in the downloading. I too have had myshare of conflicting software appocalypses and don't need a formula forleaders THAT badly. Any suggestions?Art from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 19:00:29 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA09758 for Subject: Re: Lehigh Valley At 03:48 PM 2/15/98 EST, you wrote:Art - We do indeed fish the Little Lehigh often in the Trico season, andoftenfish the Big Bushkill and the Broadhead in the Spring. Keep in touch, andwewill arrange something. You got it!Art from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 19:10:05 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA10325 for Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley At 02:06 PM 2/15/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Art - We do indeed fish the Little Lehigh often in the Trico season,and oftRO>fish the Big Bushkill and the Broadhead in the Spring. Keep in touch,and weRO>will arrange something. Tom, Sorry for the incomplete 1st message - the family cat walked across thekeyboard and posted it for me. If I get back to visit my brother-in-law (Bethlehem, PA) soon, I'd liketo fish with you also. Don Burns Don, I guess tomorrow's too soon, eh? I'll be there with a friend looking forPresidents on Presidents' Day. I'll settle for a trout or two though! We getout there every week or two until it gets nice then I'll try to do it everyweek. I used to get a Jersey license AND a PA but the costs were gettingpunitive (and they opened up the new Rte 78 leg which saves me a halfhourto the Little Lehigh)so I went only for the PA for the last year or two. NowNJ has opened up some new waters so I may go back to fishing both states.Ithurts that a NY license is so affordable but that it takes me almost threeand a half hours to get to the BeaMoc area and I'm getting a little long inthe tooth to do that both ways in a day after fishing 8 or 10 hrs!Hope we can all get together soon,Art from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Feb 15 19:21:14 1998 Subject: Re: UV box My varnish hardens pretty much overnight. Is the box used for curing it? Isthis used for spar only? Just intrigued... Rob from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Sun Feb 15 19:31:17 1998 8.7/8.7) idUAA38570 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Sun, 15 Feb 1998 20:29:16 - Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley Art, Tom, Don, etal,You can count me as a Big Bushkill, etc. flyfisher-type. Justwaiting for a day off and a tad better waeather :>)Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Feb 15 19:48:17 1998 Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley RO>I guess tomorrow's too soon, eh? I'll be there with a friend looking forRO>Presidents on Presidents' Day. I'll settle for a trout or two though! WegetRO>out there every week or two until it gets nice then I'll try to do iteveryRO>week. I used to get a Jersey license AND a PA but the costs weregettingRO>punitive (and they opened up the new Rte 78 leg which saves me a halfhourRO>to the Little Lehigh)so I went only for the PA for the last year or two.NowRO>NJ has opened up some new waters so I may go back to fishing bothstates. ItRO>hurts that a NY license is so affordable but that it takes me almostthreeRO>and a half hours to get to the BeaMoc area and I'm getting a little longinRO>the tooth to do that both ways in a day after fishing 8 or 10 hrs!RO>Hope we can all get together soon,RO>Art Art, I'm out in LA and already have a 3 day weekend planned for next weekendon the Lower Owens River. Plus I just found out that the #%$#@%$#$% furnace in my 10 year oldhouse went out. Needs a new heat exchanger. (prorated warranty) I figurethat the not covered labor and misc. parts will equal a new furnace +/-$10. (: from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 20:15:11 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14092 for Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley At 08:29 PM 2/15/98 -0500, you wrote:Art, Tom, Don, etal,You can count me as a Big Bushkill, etc. flyfisher-type. Justwaiting for a day off and a tad better waeather :>)Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm Len,I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up theresemi- regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL or theLittle Bushkill (in Easton.Art from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 15 20:17:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hollow-build Dynamics Carsten,The experience of most of the list suggests that my beliefs areincorrect,my own experience notwithstanding. I can only suggest that youbuildone hollow vs. one solid-8' would be a fair test- and let us know how youfared.Regards ,Hank. from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 20:21:11 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14334 for Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley At 05:47 PM 2/15/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>I guess tomorrow's too soon, eh? I'll be there with a friend looking forRO>Presidents on Presidents' Day. I'll settle for a trout or two though! WegetRO>out there every week or two until it gets nice then I'll try to do iteveryRO>week. I used to get a Jersey license AND a PA but the costs weregettingRO>punitive (and they opened up the new Rte 78 leg which saves me ahalf hourRO>to the Little Lehigh)so I went only for the PA for the last year or two.NowRO>NJ has opened up some new waters so I may go back to fishing bothstates. ItRO>hurts that a NY license is so affordable but that it takes me almostthreeRO>and a half hours to get to the BeaMoc area and I'm getting a little longinRO>the tooth to do that both ways in a day after fishing 8 or 10 hrs!RO>Hope we can all get together soon,RO>Art Art, I'm out in LA and already have a 3 day weekend planned for next weekendon the Lower Owens River. Plus I just found out that the #%$#@%$#$% furnace in my 10 year oldhouse went out. Needs a new heat exchanger. (prorated warranty) I figurethat the not covered labor and misc. parts will equal a new furnace +/-$10. (:There goes my Grayrock trip for this year. Don Don,Enjoy the Owens, it sounds like you're going to have to make do with that soon, but it doesn't owe me anything; it's forty years old and never costmea dime. If you're replacing with gas hot-air and you learn any insidesecrets I can use in the next year or so, e-mail me privately and I'll beforever grateful. I've been trying to find data on the new high efficiencymodels on the web and all I can find is boilerplate--no prices orindependent reviews.Art from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Sun Feb 15 21:16:07 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA16108 +0000 Subject: Re: books -----Original Message----- Subject: books Dear Sirs,Since it is on everyones mind (lusting after Mr. Fink's books) I have aninquiry about a book I just found by George and Jacques Herter. The titleis SECRET FRESH AND SALT WATER FISHING TRICKS OF THE WORLD'S FIFTYBESTPROFESSIONAL FISHERMEN-plus the professional secrets of fishing rodsandhow fishing rods are made. Privite Printing,1949. Mine is a 10th editionprinted in 1961. My question comes from the fact that I have never seenHerters 'Professional Manufacturer's Guide' printed the same year. Howdothe two compare to each other? Or do they?Thanks for the helpGWH My copy of the "Secret..................Professional Fisherman" is a firstedition with a copywrite date of 1965! It has 416 pages and 22 chapters.The first 104 pages are pretty much devoted to bamboo. In the list ofotherbooks by George Herter it does not list "Professional Manufacturer's Guide" Is it possible that they used the same title for different books indifferent years? Does this mean that 'Professional ......Guide' had to beprinted after 1965? Dick from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun Feb 15 21:22:41 1998 Subject: Re: WG: rodmakers gathering Alex -The Michigan get together (aka Grayrock 98) is officially June 26 - 27- BUT unofficially there will be fishing and rodmaking starting at theClubhouseas early as June 20. There will be workbenchs and tool sets for the earlyarrivals to use and a pilgrimage to the Jordan (the Section Creek 13stretch -'the Humbler') is planned. There are several other options in fishing. If however your schedule is limited to July and August - I will make youthis offer (WHICH IS OPEN TO OTHER LIST MEMBERS AS WELL) - You makeit toMichigan and I will personally play host as best as I can - over the yearsseveral have taken advantage of this offer and I think that they all had agood time - well except for this fellow from STL who booted Mr Brooktroutlast fall. Please feel free to contact me off line - waynecatt@aol.com Wayne from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 21:24:41 1998 Subject: leaders Greg;It was a complete disaster. I destroyed several files that ran all myinternet connections, I had to have a friend come over with a big bag ofdisks and basically start all over,never againJohn Channer from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 21:30:23 1998 Subject: leaders Jerry;No, I don't think it was the fault of yhe program or the web page, probablymostly opperator error and inadequate equipment. I am not equiped todownload zip files, so I got netzip, then downloaded the leader programandscrewed up trying to read it. I'm going to have to take many lessons beforeI try again, rodbuilding is much easier than computer operating, at leastto me.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 15 21:35:30 1998 Subject: download Art;I'm afraid you're asking the family dog about rocket science, all I know I did!!!John Channer from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Feb 15 22:05:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planes Brett,Highlight it- I have a heck of a time reading it as is.Hank. from dickay@alltel.net Sun Feb 15 22:05:49 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA21936 0600 Subject: Re: Furnaces Art, Contact me direct with your questions. I work in the HVAC industry. MaybeI can some of them for you. Dick FuhrmanFort Smith, ARdickay@alltel.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Feb 15 22:16:39 1998 Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:16:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley Nothing to do with rods and fishing, just a general question. I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up theresemi-regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL or theLittle Bushkill (in Easton.Art So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill. Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept of overkill ;-).Initialy I thought it was just an interesting one off name but that is obviously not the case.What is the "kill" suffix in the first three names (plus all the others I'm sure are out there) all about? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 23:06:26 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA27277 for Subject: Re: download At 07:24 PM 2/15/98, you wrote:Art;I'm afraid you're asking the family dog about rocket science, all I know I did!!!John ChannerJohn,Sorry for the disaster. I know how frustrating they can be. I spend most ofmy time on the raw edge too, cybernetically speaking. I guess I've justbeenlucky in the software I had before I began to download files. I've only hadtrouble with them AFTER I got them and installed them and they modifiedmyconfig.sys or autoexec.bat. THEN it's what-th'-hell- happened-time!Good luck in the future,Art from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 15 23:38:08 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA28846 for Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley At 12:16 PM 2/16/98 +0800, you wrote:Nothing to do with rods and fishing, just a general question. I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up theresemi-regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL or theLittle Bushkill (in Easton.Art So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill. Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept of overkill ;-).Initialy I thought it was just an interesting one off name but that is obviously not the case.What is the "kill" suffix in the first three names (plus all the others I'm sure are out there) all about? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ Tony,I believe kill is Dutch for "stream" and that these little riverswere first named by the "New Netherlanders" here in the Northeast. Ilookedit up in an International Dictionary and they say it's a US dialect but JohnMerwin, in "The Battenkill", backs me up and ascribes the many uses of ittothe Dutch, going back to Henry Hudson who explored the (you got it!)HudsonRiver. It seems to be more than any one stream/river/estuarynomenclaturethough, since I live on Staten Island (in New York City) and we'reseparated from New Jersey by two saltwater "passages" known as The Arthur Killand TheKill Van Kull. you won't find any trout in those two shipping lanes! As amatter of fact we sometimes expect the fish that DO pass through theretoglow in the dark, the water is so polluted! Hope that clears it up a little Art ps: Don't give me any of that "What's a Grecian urn/earn" crap back! from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Feb 16 00:21:08 1998 Subject: books Dick, Now I am confused. My copy of 'Secret....Professional Fishermen'contains 18 chapters with 206 pages. The first 104 on bambooconstruction.Sounds like the same book, yours having some additions. Although I don'tunderstand your 1965 first edition date. It looks like the Herters mighthave used some "poetic licence". Every reference I have puts the'Professional Split-Bamboo... Manufacturer's Guide' as a 1949 publish date.I'm going to be in DC in two weeks hopefully I'll have time to go by theLibrary of Congress. Thanks for your help.Gary from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Mon Feb 16 00:26:25 1998 ; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 08:24:52 +0200 (EET) Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: Re: Planes/Finland Seppo This fellow Bjårn Daehlie is Norwegian. I am danish, like in pastry. Havespend some time finding out, what you meant. I might be slow, the norwegianis not. He is the skier, who 2 days ago beat the h... out of all thefinnish skiers down in Nagano. Gold medal, I think. :-). Personally, I think all this snow and ice You fellows from the northernparts of Scandinavia seem to enjoy is just a menace, preventing me fromfishing. Here in the southern parts of Scandinavia the season forseatroutin the rivers start at the middle of january. Flyfishing, my friend, noticefishing. How do You like that? :-) Best regards Carsten Yep, my mistake, sorry about it. I thought you might be danish after I saw your e-mail address. Since you live in Denmark, I might as well ask you if you buy your bamboo from Fluesnapperen? If you do, what do you thinkabout the quality/price of bamboo. I would also be very happy if you could tellme where in Denmark is Svenstrup? Just in case I would end up in Denmarksome day. Regards,Seppo PS. Wow, fly-trouts in January. Here I am in the middle of snow and ice dreaming all those trouts and graylings waiting for me under the ice. BTW, speaking of icefishing I fixed up my icefishing gear yesterday. Going after perch soon. from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Mon Feb 16 05:06:18 1998 emf h9451015; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 12:06:01 +0100 12:05:04+0100 Subject: coming to america Hello Bret,It is very kind of you to take me fishing with you in Michigan.I will come to the USA in Juni to attend the rodmaking gathering inGrayling.Afterwards I will stay in the USA for another 1-2 weeks.It would be very nice if we could meet during this time.I live very close to Bludenz it is about 40km one way.This is the westernpartof Austriamy workbench is also there.The most time I live in vienna the capital city of Austria.I am studiing there.In the holidays I am always at home and building canerods.Have you ever been to Bludenz?The fishing oportunitis in the western part of Austria are not as good asin theeastern part of Austria.I spend the most days fishing in the surrounding of Vienna.I think it is very important for me to talk to other rodmakers and showthem myrods.It is hard for me to improve my rods without the opinion of otherrodmakers.I would like to contact you for further information. Thanks a lot Alex. PS: I should improve knolege of english till summer. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 06:16:55 1998 Subject: Re: coming to america Alex,I look forward to meeting you and taking you down on the Muskegon riverandthe Pere Marquette. These are my favorite rivers. No I have not been toBludenz but we plan on going over sometime. I hope your English is betterthan my German, but I will brush up on that also. Mine Deutsch is nicht sogut. Keep in touch and we will get some fishing in when you get here.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 07:13:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planes How do I hilite it?Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 16 09:25:36 1998 Subject: RE:coming to america RO>Hello Bret,RO>It is very kind of you to take me fishing with you in Michigan.RO>I will come to the USA in Juni to attend the rodmaking gathering inGraylingRO>Afterwards I will stay in the USA for another 1-2 weeks.RO>It would be very nice if we could meet during this time.RO>I live very close to Bludenz it is about 40km one way.This is thewestern paRO>my workbench is also there.RO>The most time I live in vienna the capital city of Austria.RO>I am studiing there.In the holidays I am always at home and buildingcane roRO>Have you ever been to Bludenz?RO>The fishing oportunitis in the western part of Austria are not as goodas inRO>Austria.I spend the most days fishing in the surrounding of Vienna.RO>I think it is very important for me to talk to other rodmakers and showthemRO>It is hard for me to improve my rods without the opinion of otherrodmakers.RO>I would like to contact you for further information. RO>Thanks a lot Alex. RO>PS: I should improve knolege of english till summer. Alex, I've been to Vienna, it's a great place to visit. Didn't get outside ofthe city except for the train ride between Budapest and Vienna. My wifeand I were in Budapest for a conference. (wife attended) I got to go fishing. So I went over to Ljubljana, Slovenia andfished the Krka, Unec and Sava Bohinja. If your trout fishing is thesame as down there, then you must have some nice streams to fish. Still hoping to make Grayrock myself. Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 16 09:51:10 1998 Mon, 16 Feb 1998 23:51:02 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley Art, I believe kill is Dutch for "stream" and that these little riverswere first named by the "New Netherlanders" here in the Northeast. Ilookedit up in an International Dictionary and they say it's a US dialect butJohnMerwin, in "The Battenkill", backs me up and ascribes the many uses of ittothe Dutch, going back to Henry Hudson who explored the (you got it!)HudsonRiver. It seems to be more than any one stream/river/estuarynomenclature Now I know. Thanks. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 16 10:23:32 1998 Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley RO>At 12:16 PM 2/16/98 +0800, you wrote:RO>>Nothing to do with rods and fishing, just a general question.RO>>RO>>> I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up thereRO>>> semi-regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL ortheRO>>> Little Bushkill (in Easton.RO>>> ArtRO>>>RO>>So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill.RO>>Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept of overkill ;- ).RO>>Initialy I thought it was just an interesting one off name but that isRO>>obviously not the case.RO>>What is the "kill" suffix in the first three names (plus all the othersRO>>I'm sure are out there) all about?RO>>RO>>TonyRO>>RO>>/***********************************************************************/RO>>Tony YoungRO>>http://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlRO>>The Australian connectionRO>>/***********************************************************************/RO>>RO>>RO>Tony,RO> I believe kill is Dutch for "stream" and that these little riversRO>were first named by the "New Netherlanders" here in the Northeast. IlookedRO>it up in an International Dictionary and they say it's a US dialect butJohnRO>Merwin, in "The Battenkill", backs me up and ascribes the many uses ofit toRO>the Dutch, going back to Henry Hudson who explored the (you got it!)HudsonRO>River. It seems to be more than any one stream/river/estuarynomenclatureRO>though, since I live on Staten Island (in New York City) and we'reseparatedRO> from New Jersey by two saltwater "passages" known as The Arthur Killand TheRO>Kill Van Kull. you won't find any trout in those two shipping lanes! As aRO>matter of fact we sometimes expect the fish that DO pass throughthere toRO>glow in the dark, the water is so polluted! Hope that clears it up alittleRO>for you.RO> By the way, what's a wallaby anyway (just kidding),RO>Art RO>ps: Don't give me any of that "What's a Grecian urn/earn" crap back! OBTW when i was in Scotland, I found out that "Inver" means "next to"(or maybe "upon the mouth"? - can't quite remember which), but you'llget the idea. So "Inverness" means next to the river Ness. There was a lot of "Inver's" in Scotland. Don from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Mon Feb 16 14:18:31 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id 304 0600 Subject: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three strips toabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experience withthis material? Thanks! Jim Kubichek from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Feb 16 14:44:59 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA25542 for; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:03:56 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Planes/Finland ----------From: Karkkainen Seppo Yep, my mistake, sorry about it. I thought you might be danish after Isaw your e-mail address. Since you live in Denmark, I might as well ask youif you buy your bamboo from Fluesnapperen? If you do, what do you thinkabout the quality/price of bamboo. I would also be very happy if you could tellme where in Denmark is Svenstrup? Just in case I would end up in Denmarksome day. Regards,Seppo PS. Wow, fly-trouts in January. Here I am in the middle of snow and ice dreaming all those trouts and graylings waiting for me under the ice.BTW, speaking of icefishing I fixed up my icefishing gear yesterday. Goingafter perch soon. Seppo The owner of "Fluesnapperen" is, as You probably knows, Preben DorphJorgensen. He is a very helpfull fellow, from whom I myself boughtbamboowhen I started rodmaking. Svenstrup is a very minor town in the northernpart of Jutland, some 4 hours from Copenhagen by car. (This IS a smallcountry) I recall paying DKK 200 for a culm, claimed to have been som 10years old. His cane is OK without being the very best. Compared to theprices I have seen in swedish catalogs, it is indeed a low price. Some 6months ago I got hold of a catalog from Lennart Bergquist of "Flugbinding -pö mitt sett" fame. He charged an unbelieveable SKR 650 per culm, whichissheer armed robbery. Should You ever come to Denmark, let me know. I have, today, some 17surplus culms for sale. The are, at least, 25 years old and of AAA quality,except for one thing; They have been stashed away all those years agowithout being cut open longitudal, so have developed cracks bythemselves.This will not prevent them being used for rodbuilding, but it doesn't looknice. I charge DKK 250 per culm plus postage. I use the same qualitymyself Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Feb 16 14:45:04 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id VAA25530; Mon, 16 Feb 199821:03:53+0100 (CET) Subject: Re: RE:Lehigh Valley ----------From: Tony Young Cc: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduSubject: RE:Lehigh ValleyDate: 16. februar 1998 05:16 Nothing to do with rods and fishing, just a general question. I have a buddy who likes the Big Bushkill and gets me up theresemi-regularly. Unless he's tugging though I usually fish the LL or theLittle Bushkill (in Easton.Art So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill. Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept oReceived: from vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id GAA04322 for; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 06:15:28 +0100 (CET) (CET)(envelope- from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu) admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA27277 for Message-Id: Sender: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduFrom: Art Port Subject: Re: downloadMime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: anglport@admin.con2.comX-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.4 (16)X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.0 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN At 07:24 PM 2/15/98, you wrote:Art;I'm afraid you're asking the family dog about rocket science, all I know thanI did!!!John ChannerJohn,Sorry for the disaster. I know how frustrating they can be. I spend mostofmy time on the raw edge too, cybernetically speaking. I guess I've justbeenlucky in the software I had before I began to download files. I've onlyhadtrouble with them AFTER I got them and installed them and theymodifiedmyconfig.sys or autoexec.bat. THEN it's what-th'-hell- happened-time!Good luck in the future,Art from owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Feb 16 06:48:04 1998 Tony Is this an example of the weird and wondurfull humour from down under?:-) Carsten from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 16 14:45:49 1998 Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? In a message dated 2/16/98 12:36:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us writes: I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three stripstoabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experiencewiththis material? Yes I have. I tested many various different types of glue by planingtwo strips and gluing them together, then bending them until theybreak. The DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin is the only one that I havehad let loose before the bamboo broke. Others have said that Iprobably got an old batch, because in reality the glue is a typeof URAC, and many others have used it with great success.If you use it, make sure it is fresh. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 16 14:46:17 1998 Subject: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? A UV (ultraviolet) box is just a box in which to dry your varnish morequickly. It has one or more fluorescent light fixtures with ultraviolettubes. This weekend I was driving down a street in an industrial sectionand as I passed an auto body shop, I saw an entire garage withfluorescent fixtures on all the walls and ceiling. I mean lined upedge to edge! I immediately thought of this thread, and wondered if it was a huge drying box. Since my van is in need of a paint job, I stopped and went in to inquire about prices. As I was talking to the guy, I asked about the fluorescent lightroom. He said the light dries the paint quicker and makes it sothe car repels dust. Hmmm... repels dust? Yes, he says, the lightcharges the surface and makes it so the dust doesn't settle onthe paint. Can this be true? If it is, it sounds like somethingrod builders can use..... Darryl Hayashida from thramer@presys.com Mon Feb 16 15:08:15 1998 0000 Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three strips toabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experiencewiththis material? Thanks! Jim KubichekI can concur with Daryls experience. I also found that it would not putup with much heat, as in staightening. A.J.Thramer from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Feb 16 16:03:48 1998 Subject: Re: coming to america Bret -I saw that you mentioned the Muskegon River and that you fish it alot - where do you live in the midwest???? - Newaygo is only 17 miles away. Wayne from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 16:24:35 1998 Subject: Re: Re: coming to america Wayne,I live about 156 miles from the Muskegon and fish it every week. Mostly Ifish with Carl Richards when I go. As a matter of fact I received a phonecall from a gentleman yesterday and he asked me if I was interested inbuyinghis place on the river. I am planning on going up there in the next coupleofweeks to look the place over and to discuss price, timing etc.Wayne if you ever want to meet there I am always open to the trip. SometimesI even just drive there for the day , but I always carry provisions just incase.Bret Oh yeah I fish a Leonard tho. But I just got a rod from R.B. So I will haveto try that one out this year. from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 16 16:49:25 1998 Subject: web page Gang Have added a new topic under suppliers, - professional services - thefirst link is http://www.eee.org/bus/reel_art/ any other offerings? regards Jerry from brookside.rod@juno.com Mon Feb 16 18:18:32 1998 19:17:03 EST Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? Tried DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin a few years ago. Resulted in the onlyjoints which have ever delaminated at the glue line. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.comon-line catalog: http://home.onestop.net/brookside On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 14:13:40 -0600 jim_kubichek@s- hamilton.k12.ia.uswrites:I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three strips toabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experience withthis material? Thanks! Jim Kubichek end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:04:17 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? Dear Darryl I'm not sure about the dust thing. That might be a function of having enough of them to raise the temp orinstigate a repellent charge in the metal (?) or something. I do know thatitmakes your work dry with less dust simply because it's in a box, you know. This is a little embarassing but I'd better spill it. I called up my oldpartner to ask where he got those tubes, what temp they are etc. and helaughed so hard he shot beer through his nose. They are standard,unshielded,blacklights: remember "Inna Godda Davida?" Blacklights. He also said (see, he was the smart one) That the box promotes drying intwoways: 1. the UV thing and; B. it raises the temp a little and causessomething called cross-linking which I assume has something to do withsex (?)or something. In the interest of science, I'll just sign offDavy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:07:24 1998 Subject: Re: RE:Lehigh Valley Tony ,"kill" means stream in, I believe, the Dutch language.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:09:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: coming to america Alex,Your English is better than that of some on this list that grew up in theU.S. of A. Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:11:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planes Brett,I own a mac and I can use the mouse, starting at the top of the e- mailandbring it down on the page within the letter-if the letter is long enough toscroll it will do so automatically when the mouse reaches the bottom ofthepage in view. Good luck.Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 16 19:42:34 1998 Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three strips toabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experiencewiththis material? Thanks! Jim KubichekThis is the dry version of urea formaldehyde glue. A very good glue.John Zimny from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Feb 16 19:46:01 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? In a message dated 2/16/98 5:12:17 PM Pacific Standard Time,Ragnarig@aol.comwrites: They are standard, unshielded,blacklights: remember "Inna Godda Davida?" Blacklights. The ones at the body shop looked like standard fluorescent lights.I still wonder though, because if it was just raised temperaturethey could have used heat lamps. Darryl Hayashida from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 16 19:47:22 1998 Subject: Re: DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin? SalarFly@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 2/16/98 12:36:22 PM Pacific Standard Time,jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us writes: I was at a Fly Fishing meeting this weekend where I saw a net makerusing bamboo strips to make landing nets. He planed down three stripstoabout 1 or 2 mm and glued three strips together and formed the netframe. The adhesive he swore by was DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin. Hesaid it had a very long working time and was very strong. It is apowder mixed with water. Has anyone on the list had any experiencewiththis material? Yes I have. I tested many various different types of glue by planingtwo strips and gluing them together, then bending them until theybreak. The DAP Weldwood Plastic Resin is the only one that I havehad let loose before the bamboo broke. Others have said that Iprobably got an old batch, because in reality the glue is a typeof URAC, and many others have used it with great success.If you use it, make sure it is fresh. Darryl HayashidaYep. It only has a 1 year shelf-life and that only if kept below 70F anddry.John Zimny from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 16 19:52:36 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Dear Darryl I'm not sure about the dust thing. That might be a function of having enough of them to raise the temp orinstigate a repellent charge in the metal (?) or something. I do knowthat itmakes your work dry with less dust simply because it's in a box, youknow. This is a little embarassing but I'd better spill it. I called up my oldpartner to ask where he got those tubes, what temp they are etc. and helaughed so hard he shot beer through his nose. They are standard,unshielded,blacklights: remember "Inna Godda Davida?" Blacklights. He also said (see, he was the smart one) That the box promotes drying intwoways: 1. the UV thing and; B. it raises the temp a little and causessomething called cross-linking which I assume has something to do withsex (?)or something. In the interest of science, I'll just sign offDavyIs it not so that varnish manufacturers add two types of UV protectionto most outside varnishes precisely because UV radiation disrupts theco-valent bonds that hold the polymer together? What damage could one bedoing to the longevity of the coating by exposing it to concentrateddoses of UV radiation?John Zimny from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 21:04:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Planes Hank,I use a Mac also I will give it a go.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 16 21:08:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? John,there is a special varnish made with a UV prtectant in it that we haveused onexterior wood doors and it seems to hold up quite well. I don't know thenameof it but will try and find out. We are working on a remodel job on a housewe built nine years ago and the original UV varnish has held upsurprisinglywell. southern exposure and all. I wonder what it would be like on a rod.Bret from d_price@global2000.net Mon Feb 16 21:10:52 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA10758 for; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 22:10:48 -0500 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? J. C. Zimny wrote: Is it not so that varnish manufacturers add two types of UV protectionto most outside varnishes precisely because UV radiation disrupts theco-valent bonds that hold the polymer together? What damage could onebedoing to the longevity of the coating by exposing it to concentrateddoses of UV radiation?John Zimny A couple of days under all the flourescent lights you could fit around arod, dosn't equal an hour under bright sunlight(uv).The uv protectionthat you speak of is for day after day after day for years of exsposureto daylight outside. So I would say it dosn't do much to the varnish!!!.Dave Price from stpete@netten.net Mon Feb 16 21:14:32 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA02104 for; Mon, 16 Feb 1998 21:39:13 -0600 Subject: Bamboo shipment Just got a shipment of 20 Demarest 2" - 2-1/2" culms in on Friday. Idon't have enough experience to rate the culms as better than average ornot. I will say that I would hate to get hit in the head with most ofthem. There are some very thick walled culms in this group. Three withgrowers marks (some up to 18" long). A few with a split where I supposethey were "straightened. All in all I'd say very good, very usablecane. I'd received a culm from someone on the list which is being madeinto a rod now. The Demarest cane I just received is MUCH thicker. I wiped the light coating of grey mold off. No damage to the canethough. Fairly clean overall. Now the question: Do you guys recommend a check split or would you split the entirelength? How about you nodeless makers. Does it make a difference if I split itat all, since I'll be cutting the nodes out? Rick from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 16 22:18:42 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo shipment Rick,I'd check split at least-the first2 shipments I didn't and the naturalchecking wasted some good cane.Hank. from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 16 22:58:03 1998 Subject: web FFF has a new page http://www.fedflyfishers.org updated the page also Jerry from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 16 23:30:15 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? In a message dated 98-02-16 20:55:10 EST, you write: Dear John Don't know. Guess it depends on what effect the rays would have on theagentswhich cause those bonds during the drying process. Might be it locks themuptighter. Be worth finding out, for peace of mind if nothing else. Meanwhile, I'll keep using it (I'll be the test group) since I try not to sellmy rods and rather enjoy refinishing anyway. Does anybody know achemistcurrently working with such compounds? Might be one hiding under one ofthose800 numbers on the varnish cans. Hmmm... Davy from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Feb 16 23:38:24 1998 Subject: Dickerson 8615 taper The taper page for the Dickerson 8615 says it's a 3 wt.Looks like a damn stout 3 wt.Has anyone fished one of these, what line did it cast well? Brian from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 17 00:09:19 1998 Subject: Dickerson 8615 Brian;I askes the same question last fall and didn't get an answer. If you findout off-list, please post your findings, I am curious, too.Looks more likea 7 to me.John Channer from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Tue Feb 17 01:17:53 1998 emf h9451015; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 08:17:47 +0100 08:16:49+0100 Subject: WG: vienna Hello Don !Do you visit vienna in the next time?If you do please visit me.We can go fishing or talk about rodmaking.I am allways happy to talk to another rodmaker.I have not often thepossibility. It is not necessary to go for fishing to Slovenia.In Austria are a lot of verygo streams.I think that some of them are well know.For exampel the Traun.CharlesRitz hadspend everyyear some days fishing there.It is 2Hours by car from vienna.There are alot ofother good streams.The problem is that the prices for the licence are very high. My adress in vienna Huber AlexanderThurngasse 19/15a1090-WIENAustriaEUROPE TEL:0222/3156749 Sincerely ALEX from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 17 05:42:52 1998 Tue, 17 Feb 1998 19:42:42 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? On Mon, 16 Feb 1998 Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: Dear Darryl I'm not sure about the dust thing. That might be a function of having enough of them to raise the temp orinstigate a repellent charge in the metal (?) or something. I do knowthat itmakes your work dry with less dust simply because it's in a box, youknow. Has anybody hooked a negative ion generator up inside the tube?I have no idea as to the good or otherwise effects of these things but I have seen what happens to smoke and dust particles that cross one and it's interesting to watch dust floating about suddenly drop like stones. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 17 06:09:55 1998 Tue, 17 Feb 1998 20:09:47 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE:Lehigh Valley wugate.wustl.edu idGAA10887 On Mon, 16 Feb 1998, Carsten Jorgensen wrote: So far I've seen or know of Beaverkill, Batenkill and now Bushkill. Robert Ruak introduced me to the concept of overkill.etc, etc Tony Is this an example of the weird and wondurfull humour from down under?:-) Carsten Kind of, but in a very mild way.As I mentioned, I had thought it an interesting one off name, kind of an indian translation sort of thing indicating plenty of beavers or battens were used to kill the salmon there were so many of the bloody things or something like that. I sort of liked the people at one time had before it was obvious there are limits to everything. This reminds me of something Hunter S Thompson wrote about Aspen. Hesays the place has become hideous with all the people moving in because of it's (past) beauty and all because of it's unfortunate name. He sees the only answer being to rename Aspen something like Pig City. He recons developers would have more difficulty selling property in Pig City than in Aspen.We for our part, I hate to use the term "down under" do things like in order to increase tourism to a small town you can only reach via 4wd at low tide (why would you bother???) rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you can drive there, buy a T Shirt with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" and drive home again.What a marketing coup! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from harry37@epix.net Tue Feb 17 08:37:00 1998 JAA25788 Subject: Re: Coating For Blued Ferrules A.J.Thramer wrote:..... Chris & I have had good luck with Payne formula from the rod roomandOspho Blue. The Ospho is more difficult to use, gives a greyer (sp)color but is quite durable on its own without protective coatings.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com Is this the same as OXPHO-BLUE from Brownells? Has anyone had any experience with any of the other Brownells productslike 44/40 or dicropan t-4? Greg Kuntz from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 17 09:22:49 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo shipment In a message dated 98-02-16 22:17:48 EST, you write: Rick - I recommend a full length split. Based on an experience with somecanea few years ago. Did the Garrison check split, which did not progress verymuch in most culms if at all, but most culms developed randominternodalfissures/splits and resulted in quite a bit of unuseable cane. Ihave my Regards,Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 17 09:23:15 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? In a message dated 98-02-16 22:11:43 EST, you write: Can anyone explain just what UV does to promote quicker drying of thevariousfinishes of our concern?RTyree from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 17 09:47:18 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA8119 +0000 Subject: Re: books Hi,The Library of Congress has a website (been there). Sorry I don't have itherebut I found it with a search engine when I was looking for books on bamboorodbuilding (yes, it listed them!).George ----------From: Heidt Subject: booksDate: Sunday, February 15, 1998 10:30 PM Dick, Now I am confused. My copy of 'Secret....Professional Fishermen'contains 18 chapters with 206 pages. The first 104 on bambooconstruction.Sounds like the same book, yours having some additions. Although Idon'tunderstand your 1965 first edition date. It looks like the Herters mighthave used some "poetic licence". Every reference I have puts the'Professional Split-Bamboo... Manufacturer's Guide' as a 1949 publishdate.I'm going to be in DC in two weeks hopefully I'll have time to go by theLibrary of Congress. Thanks for your help.Gary from plipton@sunvalley.net Tue Feb 17 10:29:52 1998 (208.14.167.22) Subject: UV box Davy: Are ultraviolet tubes different from regular fluorescent tubes? Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726- 9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 17 12:20:28 1998 Subject: Bamboo Mag. All: Teh BFR (Bamboo Fly Rod) arrived in today's mail - now I'll havesomething to read while Sears replaces my furnace. (: from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Tue Feb 17 12:30:25 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Tue, 17 Feb 98 13:29:39 EST Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? Caneist goes over to the Dark side, and new Gods? No doubt it wasn't beerat all.At 08:00 PM 2/16/98 EST, you wrote:Dear Darryl I'm not sure about the dust thing. That might be a function of having enough of them to raise the temp orinstigate a repellent charge in the metal (?) or something. I do knowthat itmakes your work dry with less dust simply because it's in a box, youknow. This is a little embarassing but I'd better spill it. I called up my oldpartner to ask where he got those tubes, what temp they are etc. and helaughed so hard he shot beer through his nose. They are standard,unshielded,blacklights: remember "Inna Godda Davida?" Blacklights. He also said (see, he was the smart one) That the box promotes drying intwoways: 1. the UV thing and; B. it raises the temp a little and causessomething called cross-linking which I assume has something to do withsex(?)or something. In the interest of science, I'll just sign offDavy Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Tue Feb 17 12:30:26 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Tue, 17 Feb 98 13:29:41 EST Subject: Re: Block PLanes Jerry, Good idea. I ground off the "wing" on the right side of the"adjuster" (frog?), which was the problem for me. Thanks for the idea. At 06:05 PM 2/12/98 -0500, you wrote:Robert I have removed the little adjuster thingy from all my stanleys. If youdon't set the clamp screw too tight they can be adjusted with fingerpressure just fine..I also couldn't get them to work at all well withhock blades Jerry Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Feb 17 13:57:46 1998 Subject: Re: UV box Dear Phil Yes, you use blacklight tubes. As I meant to say in my previous post,thereare two kinds: shielded, which is specially made to protect your eyes fromharmful radiation; and unshielded, which is cheaper. We use the latter,because they're cheaper. And because the thing works with the doorclosed andwe are not directly exposed to the rays. And, like I said earlier, line the box with tinfoil, to even out the effectand to contain a little heat, which also promotes drying. Davy from jczimny@dol.net Tue Feb 17 14:52:06 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? David Price wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Is it not so that varnish manufacturers add two types of UV protectionto most outside varnishes precisely because UV radiation disrupts theco-valent bonds that hold the polymer together? What damage couldone bedoing to the longevity of the coating by exposing it to concentrateddoses of UV radiation?John Zimny A couple of days under all the flourescent lights you could fit around arod, dosn't equal an hour under bright sunlight(uv).The uv protectionthat you speak of is for day after day after day for years of exsposureto daylight outside. So I would say it dosn't do much to the varnish!!!.Dave PriceNo No Someone mentioned ultra-violet lights. I wouldn't think exposureto regular flourescent lighting with a UV component would have a largeeffect.John from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 17 15:27:49 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id QAA14532 for; Tue, 17 Feb 1998 16:27:44 -0500 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? J. C. Zimny wrote: David Price wrote: J. C. Zimny wrote: Is it not so that varnish manufacturers add two types of UVprotectionto most outside varnishes precisely because UV radiation disruptstheco-valent bonds that hold the polymer together? What damage couldone bedoing to the longevity of the coating by exposing it to concentrateddoses of UV radiation?John Zimny A couple of days under all the flourescent lights you could fit around arod, dosn't equal an hour under bright sunlight(uv).The uv protectionthat you speak of is for day after day after day for years of exsposureto daylight outside. So I would say it dosn't do much to the varnish!!!.Dave PriceNo No Someone mentioned ultra-violet lights. I wouldn't think exposureto regular flourescent lighting with a UV component would have a largeeffect.John John I don't know how to make it any simpler , the exsposure to sunlightday after day is thousands and thousands of times more uv than a day ortwo under uv lights. So don't expect to have the varnish ruined useinguv lights to dry-cure.Dave Price from rmoon@ida.net Tue Feb 17 16:25:06 1998 Subject: Bill Stanley Favorite At Long last here is the Bill Stanley Favorite Taper. Sorry for thedelayRalph Heddon Bill Stanley Favorite #20 8 *' HDH or HEHReel Seat Brown Varigated Pyralin with bronze lock nutwith a NiAg slideband ahead of the locking nut. Black rubber butt cap and black plasticcork check.Brass winding check completely covered by wraps.Wraps Maroon Silk with no tipping. Handle and Reel Seat Length 10 1/8" Dimensions ( from Butt with varnish) Butt Section 10" .42215" .32520" .31225" .29130" .28635" .286 #17 Ferrule Mid section0" ?2" .2745" .25810" .24315" .23020" .21525" .20330" .18535" .183 #11 Ferrule Tip Section 1" .1735" .15810" .14615" .13120" .11625" .09730" .07634" .066 from Cmwall@aol.com Tue Feb 17 17:01:37 1998 Subject: Adhesives [ Question ] Gentlemen,I have a question reguarding the shelve life of URAC 185. I purchased aquart 5/97 and have glued up 3 butt & 7 tip sections. The material appears tobein same condition as when I purchased although it is 9 mos. old. Couldsomeone answer my question? Mac from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 17 17:07:00 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Coating For Blued Ferrules Greg,i've used 44/40 for a number of years on guns that I build and have neverhadgood success with using it on N.S. But it works great on touch up for bluingon steel.Bret from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Feb 17 17:47:16 1998 Subject: Re: Coating For Blued Ferrules Just received some of the Kodak fixer as a bluing kit for Nickel Silver. Is this a mistake to use? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Subject: Re: Coating For Blued FerrulesDate: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 3:03 PM Greg,i've used 44/40 for a number of years on guns that I build and have neverhadgood success with using it on N.S. But it works great on touch up forbluingon steel.Bret from jfoster@gte.net Tue Feb 17 18:03:02 1998 Subject: Re: Block PLanes Robert Glad it worked, I just took the whole cheap little affair out of mine,whatever works Jerry from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 17 18:07:22 1998 Subject: Anyone want large dia. silk thread All, I've got some boxes of "D" and larger silk thread. Mixed colors. Someare boxes of 25 x 10 yds of embroidery or button-hole silk thread,others are B-C or Gudebrod brand stuff. If anyone thinks he can use it,please email me off list to make shipping arrangements. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com PS - No jasper thread & nothing special. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 17 19:33:40 1998 Subject: re:Bill Stanley Favorite RO>At Long last here is the Bill Stanley Favorite Taper. Sorry for theRO>delayRO>Ralph RO>Heddon RO>Bill Stanley Favorite #20 8 *' HDH or HEHRO>Reel Seat Brown Varigated Pyralin with bronze lock nutwith a NiAgslideRO>band ahead of the locking nut. Black rubber butt cap and black plasticRO>cork check. Ralph, Please DO NOT take this a flame - it's very nice of you to post thistaper. I do want to correct few minor items that I think might cause someonegrief if not corrected. (somehow) #1 - Nickel-silver doesn't contain any silver - so shouldn't be listedas NiAg, IMHO. "NS" is a better form of shorthand. #2 - I think the correct line rating would be HDH or E, not HDH or HEH.Heddon normally marked their rods for a DT and a straight line. (linear) #3 - The winding check should be NS wrapped with thread (black?) on a#20, not made from black plastic. Do keep them tapers coming, Don Burns from jparker@union-tel.com Tue Feb 17 19:41:52 1998 release (PO205-101c) ID# 601-42025U5000L500S0) with SMTP Tue, 17 Feb 1998 18:41:43 -0700 Subject: Leonard 40L Just had a call from a fellow in UP Mich who needs a taper for a Leonard40L (Letort). If anyone has it and would like to help him out you willhave to send it by US mail. He is not on line. I know he would appreciateit. 626 South 13th StreeetEscanaba, MI 49829 Best,Jon Parker from DRinker370@aol.com Tue Feb 17 20:26:05 1998 Subject: UV drying cabinets I have some information on drying cabinets using UV lights from a ViolinMaking book by H.S. Wake. I built this cabinet during my past forays intoinstrument making and is works well for the multiple (15 coats) of oilbasedvarnishes used. The finishes I used have held up without flaws for about15years so I would imagine that they will continue to be relatively durable .My drying cabinet measures 24 inches wide , 48 inches tall, by 18 inchesdeep.Because of the uniform coverage requirement of light I used 7 - 24 inchfluorescent fixtures wired parallel. If one burns out the rest remain litthis way. The bulbs are arranged three on the front and back and one onthebottom of case. The bulbs I used were General Electric no. 20T 12/BL 24inchunfiltered blacklight type. The interior is also lined with aluminum foiladhered with rubber cement. The cabinent does not stop dust fromaccumulating on the drying instrument from my experience. I wouldimaginethat the installation of some sort of vinyl sheet door as with dippingtubeswould solve some of the infiltration of dust . The key to correct drying isto keep the oil based varnish between 90 and 100 degrees while drying . Theprocess would take 48 hours for me. I have not used the cabinet forrodmakingyet (Im still absorbing all of Waynes information and building tools) butImsure that 2 or 3 of these bulbs wired with an incandescent bulb for heat inasmaller cabinet would work just fine . I hope any of this information ishelpful. David. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 17 20:37:52 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 17Feb 1998 21:38:50 +0000 Subject: Message... I got your message a bit late today. Thanks for calling. I thought I would respond this way....save a little money. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Feb 17 21:01:57 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 17Feb 1998 22:02:57 +0000 Subject: Re: Message... Just wanted to apologize to everyone...I sent this to the wrong place...sorry for wasting your time. I got your message a bit late today. Thanks for calling. I thought I would respond this way....save a little money. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Feb 17 21:28:17 1998 Subject: Re: Anyone want large dia. silk thread Don, Are you only asking for us to pay for shipping? If not what is the cost? Thanks Mark Hallowell from rmoon@ida.net Tue Feb 17 21:30:07 1998 Subject: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite Don I stand admonished in regard to using NiAg. Henceforth nothing but NS 2. The rod was original when I miked it and the line weights I postedwere the line wt shown on the rod shaft. The score is now 1-1 3 You will notice I said cork check when describing the reel seat. Itwas and is black plastic. The winding check was not NS but brass, mynotes would indicate maroon silk, but they are really quite old and Icould have failed to make special note that the winding check wascovered with black thread,,, Will you settle for a draw? Ralph from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Feb 17 21:55:02 1998 Subject: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) Going to England at the end of Feb and need contacts on rodbuilders andfishing(Of course). I understand that the rivers will probably be shutdown,but there are a lot of ponds and lakes I believe are available. If I have togo to Harrad's for shopping than she has to listen to to rod makers talkaboutcane and the wisp of the fly line. Help! Mark Hallowell from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 17 21:56:41 1998 Subject: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite RO>Don RO>I stand admonished in regard to using NiAg. Henceforth nothing but NS RO>2. The rod was original when I miked it and the line weights I postedRO>were the line wt shown on the rod shaft. The score is now 1-1 RO>3 You will notice I said cork check when describing the reel seat. ItRO>was and is black plastic. The winding check was not NS but brass, myRO>notes would indicate maroon silk, but they are really quite old and IRO>could have failed to make special note that the winding check wasRO>covered with black thread,,, RO>Will you settle for a draw? RO>Ralph Ralph, I've never seen any brass fittings used on any Heddon (except for areelseat's knurled (sp?) movable ring) - but I don't want to start along "he said - he replied." I guess I mis-read the rest. I'll standcorrected. Draw - sure any day. Tight lines, Don from lblan@provide.net Tue Feb 17 22:07:50 1998 Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. The signoutside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T-shirts existtoo.: ) Larry Blan -----Original Message----- rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you candrivethere, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" and drivehome again. What a marketing coup! from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Feb 17 22:13:33 1998 Subject: Re: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) One more request for help, Also need help on Bed & Breakfast's or lodging in London or vicinity andPortsmouth. Mark Hallowell from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Feb 17 22:22:49 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA27629 +0000 Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Been to Paradise? That is in Michigan, too. (Along with Paris, Moscow,and Hamburg if your wife is into exotic travel. Paris has/had? a fishhatchery.) George Bourke ----------From: Larry Blan Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh ValleyDate: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 8:07 PM Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. Thesignoutside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T-shirts existtoo.: ) Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you candrivethere, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" anddrivehome again. What a marketing coup! from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Wed Feb 18 05:14:33 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA29382 for; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 11:25:02 GMT Subject: Re: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) At 22:54 17/02/98 EST, you wrote:Going to England at the end of Feb and need contacts on rodbuilders andfishing(Of course). I understand that the rivers will probably be shutdown,but there are a lot of ponds and lakes I believe are available. If I have togo to Harrad's for shopping than she has to listen to to rod makers talkaboutcane and the wisp of the fly line. Help! Mark Hallowell It's Harrods, and it'll cost ya. Fly fishing - end of Feb. Mmmmmmm - wrong time of the year. Try talkingtothe Orvis Shop in Stockbridge, Hampshire. They may be able to arrangesomething for you. There's Dever Springs nearby, north of Winchester. Theyhave rainbows to about forty pounds. Telephone numbers throughinternationaldirectory enquiries, I guess. All this is en-route to Portsmouth, from London. You'll find loads of history in Portsmouth. The ship, Mary Rose, King Henrythe 8th's flagship, 1550 or thereabouts. The Victory, Nelson's flagship -good as new. The 'D day' exhibition. You Yanks gave us a bit of a helpinghand in that one (thank God). Also nearby, Porchester castle, which in partdates back to Roman times AD 60 - 400. The modern bits are circa 1200.Mostof Porstmouth itself is unins Rodbuilders: there's really only Edward Barder, who's rods are used by Godthe father, and probably God the Son too (or at least, I am sure both are onthe waiting list). Barder doesn't welcome visitors in passing however, anddefinitely isn't interested in simply 'chewing the fat.' He's in Newbury,which is also nearly en-route south from London. If you want to BUY a rod,then he would no doubt be of interest to you. Do the smart thing: put your wife's trip off until May. It'll take her atleast a week to do the Harrods thing, and you can exit south. THEN you'llsee some fishing. John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 18 07:42:42 1998 Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley There's also a Hell, Cayman Islands. Selling the prerequisite "to helland back" t-shirts plus "Hell Sauce" - a Tabasco like hot sauce. Saucewas good - t- shirts remained in the store. RO>Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. The signRO>outside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T-shirts existtoo.RO>: ) RO>Larry Blan RO>-----Original Message-----RO>From: Tony Young RO> RO>> rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you candriveRO>there, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" anddriveRO>home again. What a marketing coup! from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Feb 18 08:16:36 1998 0700 Subject: You ever had one of those mornings Guys, The ferrules were all blued and fit - mixed the glue, slobbed some in theferrule and on the rod. Inserted butt into ferrule, pushed a little andthings went to hell - moisture cap blew and ferrule slid up the rod.Like I didn't have anything to do today but clean a rod, reblue a ferrule etc. Hope your day is better. Don from Canerods@aol.com Wed Feb 18 08:38:56 1998 Subject: Re: Anyone want large dia. silk thread In a message dated 98-02-17 22:34:21 EST, you write: Mark and all, The thread is in old cardboard boxes - if someone has a rod museum thatcanuse it for a display (Wayne?) then I'll send it off for free. Boxes are marked - "Belding Heminway", "The Brainerd & Armstrong Co. and/or"Star Embroidery Silk" Else, I'd like to know it's being used for a good purpose and not beingcollected for possible future value gain. Don from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Wed Feb 18 08:53:52 1998 emf h9451015; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 15:53:40 +0100 15:52:40+0100 Subject: WG: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) IAA22431 At 22:54 17/02/98 EST, you wrote:Going to England at the end of Feb and need contacts on rodbuilders andfishing(Of course). I understand that the rivers will probably be shutdown,but there are a lot of ponds and lakes I believe are available. If I have togo to Harrad's for shopping than she has to listen to to rod makers talkaboutcane and the wisp of the fly line. Help! Mark Hallowell There are several ponds and lakes wich are avaliable the whole year. Agoodsource for information is a publication wich is called " The StillwaterTrout ".I will send it to you if you want.Mail me your adress.Or you can buy it in GB. In this publication you will find a lot of pondsdescript withcontact adresses.Mayby it will help you. ALEX from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 18 09:53:02 1998 Subject: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite I have a Heddon Peerless and it appears to have a brass winding check. Iam guessing, but they may have used a variety of materials from time totime. Robert "I'm sorry late great Vince Marinaro" Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Re: Bill Stanley FavoriteDate: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 5:54 PM RO>Don RO>I stand admonished in regard to using NiAg. Henceforth nothing butNS RO>2. The rod was original when I miked it and the line weights I postedRO>were the line wt shown on the rod shaft. The score is now 1-1 RO>3 You will notice I said cork check when describing the reel seat. ItRO>was and is black plastic. The winding check was not NS but brass,myRO>notes would indicate maroon silk, but they are really quite old and IRO>could have failed to make special note that the winding check wasRO>covered with black thread,,, RO>Will you settle for a draw? RO>Ralph Ralph, I've never seen any brass fittings used on any Heddon (except for areelseat's knurled (sp?) movable ring) - but I don't want to start along "he said - he replied." I guess I mis-read the rest. I'll standcorrected. Draw - sure any day. Tight lines, Don from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Feb 18 11:40:20 1998 0500 Subject: Nickel Silver If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' refer to? Andy from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 18 11:56:56 1998 Subject: RE:Nickel Silver RO> If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' referRO> to?RO>RO> Andy Andy, Nickel silver is a really a form of brass - a white brass. It has alsobeen called german silver and liberty silver (WWI era). I believe it wasused as a replacement for real silver in some uses - jewlery? The nickel added to the alloy is a "slippery" metal and also lowers thecorrosion rate compared to plain brass, so it's a good metal forferrules. I'm sure some of the other listers will have more details. Don Burns from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 18 12:45:34 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29319 for Subject: Re: Nickel Silver At 12:14 PM 2/18/98 -0500, you wrote: If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' refer to? Andy Andy,I may be wrong but I believe the Germans developed the alloy (?) for useduring their need to fight one of the world wars. You'll also hear itreferred to as "German Silver" in some publications. I guess it could alsohave wound up with the name "Ersatz Silver" too. Anyone want to fill inthegaps or correct me?Art from skyboss@ibm.net Wed Feb 18 12:57:44 1998 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA54816 for; Wed, 18 Feb 1998 18:57:41 GMT Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Rodmakers List, Nickel silver is an alloy of copper, nickel and zinc and may be consideredas bronzes with high nickel addition to improve corrosion resistance.Theirattractive appearance of silver with a yellow tint leads to their use forarchitectural , cutlery and of course reel seat applications . They alsohave good spring properties because of their slightly higher modulus ofelasticity than phosphor bronze. Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30% zinc.Used as a substitute for silver plate.CuNi 18 Zn 20. Please note that this material contains no Silver (Ag) and is also calledGerman Silver. I hope this answers your question. Ken Holderskyboss@ibm.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Nickel Silver If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' referto? Andy from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Feb 18 13:10:14 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Michigan also has a Kalamazoo. But no Timbuktu that I'm aware of. Iwas born and raised in Kalamazoo. Dick Fuhrman from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Feb 18 13:57:47 1998 Subject: Re: books At 07:51 AM 2/17/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi,The Library of Congress has a website (been there). Sorry I don't have itherebut I found it with a search engine when I was looking for books onbamboorodbuilding (yes, it listed them!).George George Thank You. I just took a tour of the L of C site. They have the bookswaiting for me at will-call. I'll be able to view both books side by side.This was a Quantum Leap for me...... I'm real proud when I just get thedamn thing turned on. Gary from feola@apireston.org Wed Feb 18 14:13:05 1998 Subject: Re: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) Hi, Stillwater Trout Angler is widely available in the United States. I'vepurchased it at bookstores up and down the East Coast. smile anyway, cjf Christopher J. FeolaDirectory, The Media Center at the American Press Institute 703.715.3333New Media Columnist, Quill Magazine feola@apireston.orgNew Media Columnist, NewsIncCorrespondent, The Cole Papers -----Original Message----- Subject: WG: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) At 22:54 17/02/98 EST, you wrote:Going to England at the end of Feb and need contacts on rodbuilders andfishing(Of course). I understand that the rivers will probably be shutdown,but there are a lot of ponds and lakes I believe are available. If I havetogo to Harrad's for shopping than she has to listen to to rod makers talkaboutcane and the wisp of the fly line. Help! Mark Hallowell There are several ponds and lakes wich are avaliable the whole year. Agoodsource for information is a publication wich is called " The StillwaterTrout ".I will send it to you if you want.Mail me your adress.Or you can buy it in GB. In this publication you will find a lot of pondsdescript withcontact adresses.Mayby it will help you. ALEX from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Feb 18 15:05:22 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Nickel Silver Thanks everyone for your responses...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Author: at tcpgate Rodmakers List, Nickel silver is an alloy of copper, nickel and zinc and may be consideredas bronzes with high nickel addition to improve corrosion resistance.Theirattractive appearance of silver with a yellow tint leads to their use forarchitectural , cutlery and of course reel seat applications . They alsohave good spring properties because of their slightly higher modulus ofelasticity than phosphor bronze. Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30% zinc.Used as a substitute for silver plate.CuNi 18 Zn 20. Please note that this material contains no Silver (Ag) and is also calledGerman Silver. I hope this answers your question. Ken Holderskyboss@ibm.net -----Original Message----- Subject: Nickel Silver If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver' referto? Andy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Feb 18 15:13:42 1998 Thu, 19 Feb 1998 05:13:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Hey, I never said it was an original idea ;-) Tony On Tue, 17 Feb 1998, Larry Blan wrote: Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. The signoutside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T-shirts existtoo.: ) Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: Tony Young rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way you candrivethere, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" anddrivehome again. What a marketing coup! /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 18 17:38:40 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite I had an original # 20 Bill stanley Special with the plastic still on thehandle and it had a brass winding check and it was wrapped in msrroonthread.Got it from Bob summers and he assured me it was all original. It alsosaidHDH or HEH on it which I found unusal compared to my other Heddon rods.IE;#17, # 10 Etc.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 18 17:45:02 1998 Subject: Re: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Hey, don't forget Climax, Mich!Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 18 17:47:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Nickel Silver I had heard the name from my father who would be 83 now refer to it asGermanNickle Silver when he talked to me about his bamboo rods many years ago. so Iguess there are a few different names for it floating around.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Feb 18 17:51:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Trip to England (Need my rodmakers help) You might want to look for a magazine called Flytying and Flyfishing thatcomes out of england it has alot of information on places to stay overthere.bret from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 18 17:55:08 1998 Subject: Hell What about Boring Oregon? from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 18 18:20:13 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Bill Stanley Favorite RO>I had an original # 20 Bill stanley Special with the plastic still on theRO>handle and it had a brass winding check and it was wrapped in msrroonthreadRO>Got it from Bob summers and he assured me it was all original. It alsosaidRO>HDH or HEH on it which I found unusal compared to my other Heddonrods. IE;RO>#17, # 10 Etc.RO>Bret Sounds like a very late (1954 - 5?) model #20, since it's wrapped injust the single wrap color. Is the shaft marked with 3 lines of writingas used for the last few years of production? Besides the HDH and HEHdoes it give the "F" size too? Maybe they stopped wrapping the winding checks around this time periodtoo. Must've gone cheap on the winding checks too. (started to usebrass) Don't know - no got one. The ones I've seen are all olderversions.Even my two bottom-end Heddon #8 rods have NS winding checks - butthey're from ~1952. Don B. from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 18 18:40:50 1998 0500 Subject: Re: You ever had one of those mornings boundary="------------FEB3BEA817C45626B4D603CC" --------------FEB3BEA817C45626B4D603CC Don-The other day I had the quick-set epoxy set up before I got thething seated fully, due to over application of the glue. Heated thed___ thing up to remove it and the end of the ferrule shot across theroom and hit the wall with an authoritative "Thwak!" There was muchcussing and grinding of teeth. But whatcha gonna do? Brian --------------FEB3BEA817C45626B4D603CC Don- before Heated the d___ thing up to remove it and the end of the ferrule shotacross do? Brian --------------FEB3BEA817C45626B4D603CC-- from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 18 18:43:49 1998 0500 Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley We used to go to Paradise, MI to watch the hawks and loons migratethrough Whitefish Point every april with some friends. One year mybuddy and I took the fishing gear to observe the opener in da UP. Therewas still ice in the eddies and snow in the woods. No fish. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 18 18:49:20 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Bill Stanley Favorite Don- Just re-did a tipping wrap for a friend on a 7' #20. Winding checkwas plastic.Looked original, needed a big face-lift but he wanted to keep itoriginal and sell it to somebody who'll probably never fish it. Iintend to haunt anybody that tries that shit with one of my rods.Course, they gotta look a whole lot better before I have to worry. Brian from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Feb 18 19:12:19 1998 Subject: Re: Hell I lived up the road from a town in Bavaria called "Wolfsegg". Beat that! Davy from dickay@alltel.net Wed Feb 18 19:19:33 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA12001 0600 Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] Mac,I don't understand your question. Are you asking if the glue (URAC 185) isstill good? I don't know.Dick Fuhrman ----------From: Cmwall@aol.com Subject: Adhesives [ Question ]Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 4:58 PM Gentlemen,I have a question reguarding the shelve life of URAC 185. Ipurchased aquart 5/97 and have glued up 3 butt & 7 tip sections. The material appearsto bein same condition as when I purchased although it is 9 mos. old. Couldsomeone answer my question? Mac from dinkydav@ime.net Wed Feb 18 19:34:08 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Up by Fulda on the old West German border was the town of Hoelle'....Hell inSerman.LET'S RIP SOME LIPS!!Maine Clave II, the Salt SequelPopham Beach,MEJuly 24, 25 ,26, 1998dinky daveBelfast,Medlkd@ime.netdinkydav@ime.nethttp://www.ime.net/~dlkd/index.html-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Hell I lived up the road from a town in Bavaria called "Wolfsegg". Beat that! Davy from Troutworld@aol.com Wed Feb 18 20:49:17 1998 Subject: soaking bamboo? I have a question?Being green as hell. to this wonderful world of bamboo! I wasstraightening mystrips of this wonderful reed, when I broke a strip into two. I realize Iwasstrong arming the piece, I broke. And that I applied to much heat. Upon,reveiwing the broken piece of bamboo, it seemed to be extremely dryinside thestrip. I thought to myself why not soak the strips of bamboo, to make themmore plyable and easier to work with? please do not castrate me, for thisquestion! Remember the only dumb question is the one that is not ask! from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 18 21:13:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: You ever had one of those mornings Brian,I thought that's how all ferrules are removed-I even have a board set uptobounce 'em off of-I haven't had any come apart yet-you have to heat thewholeferrule gradually and at once otherwise you will blow the end off.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 18 21:19:45 1998 Subject: Re: soaking bamboo? This is not a dumb question-I forget the chap who does this but he soakshiscane strips before straightening them figuring the heat treatment will drythem out. Someone else uses water and impregnation material to soak theimpregnation stuff into the cane. I haven't tried it yet but it sounds viableto me.Regards,Hank. from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 18 21:33:18 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA04536 for Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] At 07:04 PM 2/18/98 -0600, you wrote:Mac,I don't understand your question. Are you asking if the glue (URAC 185) isstill good? I don't know.Dick Fuhrman ----------From: Cmwall@aol.com Subject: Adhesives [ Question ]Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 4:58 PM Gentlemen,I have a question reguarding the shelve life of URAC 185. Ipurchased aquart 5/97 and have glued up 3 butt & 7 tip sections. The material appearsto bein same condition as when I purchased although it is 9 mos. old. Couldsomeone answer my question? Mac Mac,I have a can which says it is good for a minimum of 3 mos but I seem toremember being told it would be good for a year (if stored properly). Thememory is at least 10 years old (as the can is 9 years old-- and thatliquidstuff looks exactly the same when it's hard as a rock as when it'spourable!) so I can't be positive. I have a number of a tech in Stan(m?)ford (I don't know if that's CT or CA or where--the area code shouldtell you) at a 203-348-7331 who was exceptionally helpful withCyanamidedata but that must be 15 years ago or more. I can't believe the John McGillI spoke with is still at that no., but it MAY still be a Cyanamide no! Ialso have an Exec. Off. No. in Wayne NJ---201-831-1234. One of thoseshouldpan out. You certainly don't want a rod to delaminate to save the cost of aglue packet!Good luck,Art from rmoon@ida.net Wed Feb 18 21:33:24 1998 Subject: Re: soaking bamboo? John Bokstrom soaks. I don't know any of the details Ralph from vjwilson@micron.net Wed Feb 18 22:03:13 1998 Subject: Re: Hell how about this one in north idaho. -- Athol -- leonard in idaho from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Feb 18 22:13:38 1998 dfw-ix2.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: True location of hell - was; RE:Lehigh Valley Someone, I forget who, once said that if he owned hell and Texas, he wouldrent out Texas and live in hell. Wonder which one he was referring to. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.comTexas...as close as it gets! There's also a Hell, Cayman Islands. Selling the prerequisite "to helland back" t-shirts plus "Hell Sauce" - a Tabasco like hot sauce. Saucewas good - t- shirts remained in the store. RO>Ahhh... not fast enough Tony. I've been to Hell, it's in Michigan. ThesignRO>outside town proudly welcomes visitors to Hell. Yes, the T- shirtsexisttoo.RO>: ) RO>Larry Blan RO>-----Original Message-----RO>From: Tony Young RO> RO>> rename from something like "Sandy Creek" to "Hell". That way youcandriveRO>there, buy a T Shirt >with the words "I've been to Hell and Back" anddriveRO>home again. What a marketing coup! from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Wed Feb 18 22:44:37 1998 mailfep3-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: soaking bamboo? type="54455854"; I realize I was strong arming the piece, I broke. And that I appliedto much heat. Strips will break by not applying enough heat rather than too muchheat. Trying to bend them too much before they reach an 'elastic' statewill break them every time. The hotter the strip becomes the morepliable it becomes. Just before you 'carbonize' it with too much heat,you can damn near put a 90 degree bend in a strip before it'll snap.Soaking may be a useful method for some folks  personally, I wouldn'tconsider it. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from sleach@plessey.co.za Thu Feb 19 00:21:10 1998 user@gauntlet.plessey.co.za IAA25840 for ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:20:47+0200 (SAT) viasmap (3.2) 19 Feb 98 08:22:41 GMT+0200 GMT+0200 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from skyboss@ibm.net Thu Feb 19 01:10:07 1998 byout1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id HAA87398 for; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 07:10:04 GMT Subject: Re: Nickel Silver lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 19 02:52:54 1998 Thu, 19 Feb 1998 16:51:52 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] More than a year for UF and Resorcinol sounds old to me. JZ pointed me to the Borden brand of liquid UF which I keep in the fridge and have done so more from it so I test before using now.I have had complete glueline failure with Resorcinol though not on a rod that was 18 months old so time does have an effect on these glues.Throw it out and get some new glue.Epoxy seems to have an indefinate life. Tony On Wed, 18 Feb 1998, Art Port wrote: At 07:04 PM 2/18/98 -0600, you wrote:Mac,I don't understand your question. Are you asking if the glue (URAC 185)isstill good? I don't know.Dick Fuhrman ----------From: Cmwall@aol.com Subject: Adhesives [ Question ]Date: Tuesday, February 17, 1998 4:58 PM Gentlemen,I have a question reguarding the shelve life of URAC 185. Ipurchased aquart 5/97 and have glued up 3 butt & 7 tip sections. The materialappearsto bein same condition as when I purchased although it is 9 mos. old. Couldsomeone answer my question? Mac Mac,I have a can which says it is good for a minimum of 3 mos but I seem toremember being told it would be good for a year (if stored properly). Thememory is at least 10 years old (as the can is 9 years old-- and thatliquidstuff looks exactly the same when it's hard as a rock as when it'spourable!) so I can't be positive. I have a number of a tech in Stan(m?)ford (I don't know if that's CT or CA or where--the area code shouldtell you) at a 203-348-7331 who was exceptionally helpful withCyanamidedata but that must be 15 years ago or more. I can't believe the JohnMcGillI spoke with is still at that no., but it MAY still be a Cyanamide no! Ialso have an Exec. Off. No. in Wayne NJ---201-831-1234. One of thoseshouldpan out. You certainly don't want a rod to delaminate to save the cost ofaglue packet!Good luck,Art /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mduclos@mail.advertisnet.com Thu Feb 19 06:17:06 1998 with SMTP id AAA134 for ;Thu, 19 Feb 1998 06:12:18 -0600 Subject: Nickel Silver Suppliers I've been trying to find sources for nickel silver (sheet, rod, or plate)and haven't had much luck. Does anyone know of such sources? thanks in advancemike d -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nickel Silver lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message-----From: Steve Leach Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 19 06:36:48 1998 Subject: adhesive and nickle silver Chris B. and/or Bill F.I just got some Epon and I was wondering about the 1 yr. shelf life statedon the can, pay attention or ignore? Michael;You can get allsizes of tubing and rod stock necessary for ferrules andreel seats from Dave Leclair at the Fly and Rod Room, Elbridge, N.Y. Healso has many other components for sale. He is a list member, so I'm sureif you post a request he will send you a brochure. John Channer from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 19 06:49:39 1998 Subject: Re: soaking bamboo? In a message dated 2/19/98 2:50:38 AM, you wrote: I have tried this method and it works fine. Soak the strips overnight, andhave at it. It's very easy. I let the strips dry for a few days beforeproceeding further, A drying cabinet is a big help. I have found no illeffects at all.. The strips are almost frighteningly pliable when wet, butreturn to their original resilience when dry. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Feb 19 07:00:56 1998 0700 Subject: Re: [1] soaking bamboo? At 21:48 18/02/98 EST, you wrote:I have a question?Being green as hell. to this wonderful world of bamboo! I wasstraightening mystrips of this wonderful reed, when I broke a strip into two. I realize Iwasstrong arming the piece, I broke. And that I applied to much heat. Upon,reveiwing the broken piece of bamboo, it seemed to be extremely dryinsidethestrip. I thought to myself why not soak the strips of bamboo, to makethemmore plyable and easier to work with? please do not castrate me, for thisquestion! Remember the only dumb question is the one that is not ask! Soaking the strips is something that John Bokstrom showed me a numberofyears ago. He was a tad concerned about the effect on the lignin/cellrelationship if the cane was soaked. from what I can recall, a "wood" prof@ a major university suggested that would be the "best" way to ensurethatthe lignin isn't broken down during heating.John splits the strips thin - soaks for a number of hours and straightens.He then drys the strips prior to other tasks on the cane.John's rods show absolutely no opens along the nodes. Have done the same technique myself - I soaked all the strips for about 6hours or so. Straightened them easily - the heat from the heat gun boilsthe water inside the cane resulting in a lot less heat requirement + thereis a lot less scorching of the strips. I straightened all, planned anintermediate taper into them and bundled them up and placed them insideofthe hot air duct of the house furnace - with 140F degree air passing bythem nearly constantly in a Alberta winter - they dry in a day or so. Soaking the cane just makes the process of straightening a whole loteasier. Mind you, it does fly in the face of those folks who tell you thatyour cane should be air dried for umpteen years prior to being used. Guess that's what makes the cane stuff so interesting. Soak if you like - you'll like the result. And would you put your real name in your notes - suspect your mothernevercalled you Troutworld. And I feel real ridiculous calling you Troutworld. regards, Don from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Feb 19 07:01:09 1998 Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] Tony Young wrote: More than a year for UF and Resorcinol sounds old to me. JZ pointed me tothe Borden brand of liquid UF which I keep in the fridge and have done so muchmore from it so I test before using now. Tony, What is the brand name of the Borden liquid uf? Regards, Steve from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 19 07:06:34 1998 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Suppliers In a message dated 2/19/98 12:20:21 PM, you wrote: Dave Leclair has some rod. Try Criterion metals in the Providence, RI aresomewhere for the sheet and plate. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 19 07:12:31 1998 ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 08:15:07 -0500 Subject: Re: adhesive and nickle silver John The shell epon I have comes in plastic bottles and there isno shelf life statement on the labels - I just checked. Bill has beenusing the same batch for the best part of a decade - it appears thatthere is an indefinite shelf life on the product as long as you don'tdo something like freeze it. Chris On Thu, 19 Feb 1998 04:25:28, john channer wrote: Chris B. and/or Bill F.I just got some Epon and I was wondering about the 1 yr. shelf life statedon the can, pay attention or ignore? Michael;You can get allsizes of tubing and rod stock necessary for ferrules andreel seats from Dave Leclair at the Fly and Rod Room, Elbridge, N.Y. Healso has many other components for sale. He is a list member, so I'm sureif you post a request he will send you a brochure. John Channer Regards Chris from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 19 08:13:54 1998 Subject: RE:Nickel Silver Suppliers RO>I've been trying to find sources for nickel silver (sheet, rod, or plate)RO>and haven't had much luck. Does anyone know of such sources? RO>thanks in advanceRO>mike d Mike, I believe Brownell's sells sheet stock - I don't know if it's 14 or 18percent content. Don B. from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 09:24:23 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA08945 for Subject: Re: Nickel Silver At 11:12 PM 2/18/98 -0800, you wrote:lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message-----From: Steve Leach Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. Hey Ken, Let's look at the bright side of this little dispute; when was the last timeyou saw three people spell "nickel" right on the same day? I often think ofthe old Nawm Petersen line about "loobster" when I see things advertisedforlow-low prices and being spelled wrong in the ad. He was bragging aboutthegreat loobster dinner he had for $5.95 and Woody asked if that wasn't"lobster" he meant? Norm's reply? Nah, it's loobster, ya can't get reallobster for those prices! We've got a Volkswagen dealership in Brooklynthatcalls itself a VolkswagOn dealership! I figure with all the invoices thosejerks read every day if they can't spell the product right they're notexactly "detail" oriented!And to bring it back to the topic, that's my $.05 worth!Art from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Feb 19 09:36:47 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mention SeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Thu Feb 19 09:53:24 1998 Subject: RE: Hell Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 19 10:00:44 1998 Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:00:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Adhesives [ Question ] On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Tony Young wrote: More than a year for UF and Resorcinol sounds old to me. JZ pointed metothe Borden brand of liquid UF which I keep in the fridge and have doneso muchmore from it so I test before using now. Tony, What is the brand name of the Borden liquid uf? Regards, Steve Borden CR-560 is the glue I use, but I doubt you'll find it using that designation in the US as I think this is the UK company code. You'll be able to find the same glue where you are, it'll just have a different code. Something else to consider is getting some Shell Epon 828 & Versimid V-40 hardener. This stuff works realy well and from what I've seen of epoxy, unmixed will last almost as long as the container it comes in. Epoxy is messy though and I'm sensitised to it so I prefer UF which iswater soluable.You wont get sensitised to epoxy making rods. Before going too much further though you should look into Jerry's page and check out the info by John Zimny on glues, that'll set you on the straight and narrow. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 19 10:02:30 1998 Fri, 20 Feb 1998 00:02:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE: Hell On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Borge, Olaf A. wrote: Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! Are these places geographical or altered states of mind? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Feb 19 10:27:39 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Hell Definitely geographical, probably altered states of mind as well; alteredinhigh-speed reverse if you ask me!! (Although one of the best lookingwomen Iever met was from Seed Tick, Arkansas, USofA) Harry Boyd Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Borge, Olaf A. wrote: Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! Are these places geographical or altered states of mind? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 19 11:23:10 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA25572 +0000 Subject: Re::Nickel Silver "Silver" refers to color. Nickel silver is an alloy of zinc, copper, andnickel.The 18% nickel silver used in fishing equipment is type "752". George Bourke ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: RE:Nickel SilverDate: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 7:56 AM RO> If there is no silver in Nickel Silver...what does the 'silver'referRO> to?RO>RO> Andy Andy from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 19 11:32:54 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA4256 +0000 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Suppliers www.metalmart.com is one source (no minimum order). They advertisein HSM (Home Shop Machinist magazine out of Traverse City, MI). Othersources can be found in HSM as well. George Bourke ----------From: Michael G. Duclos Subject: Nickel Silver SuppliersDate: Thursday, February 19, 1998 4:10 AM I've been trying to find sources for nickel silver (sheet, rod, or plate)and haven't had much luck. Does anyone know of such sources? thanks in advancemike d -----Original Message-----From: Ken Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 1:18 AMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message-----From: Steve Leach Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 19 11:37:10 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA6704 +0000 Subject: Re: Hell There is also Nowhere, AZ. The sign on the freeway says "Nowhere" withanarrowpointing off towards town. George Bourke ----------From: Harry Boyd Subject: Re: HellDate: Thursday, February 19, 1998 8:27 AM Definitely geographical, probably altered states of mind as well; alteredinhigh-speed reverse if you ask me!! (Although one of the best lookingwomen Iever met was from Seed Tick, Arkansas, USofA) Harry Boyd Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 19 Feb 1998, Borge, Olaf A. wrote: Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not tomentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! Are these places geographical or altered states of mind? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 19 11:45:22 1998 Subject: Re: Hell RO>Definitely geographical, probably altered states of mind as well;altered inRO>high-speed reverse if you ask me!! (Although one of the best lookingwomenRO>ever met was from Seed Tick, Arkansas, USofA) RO>Harry Boyd I can't help but associate this with the Tenn. fellow in the movie"Battleground" singing: "She had beautiful teeth, one pointed north and the other south" Don B. from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Feb 19 11:59:26 1998 1997)) id862565B0.00626422 ; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 11:54:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Hell This thread is a far cry from bamboo rodmaking but I couldn't resistaddingmy own - Nowthen, Minnesota. Best regards,Ed Estlow from gburmeister@itc.nrcs.usda.gov Thu Feb 19 12:16:24 1998 (8.7.3/itc-cust.Revision: 1.4 $) Subject: Re: Hell And then there is Noname, Colorado near Glenwood Canyon on I-70. Gene from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 19 12:21:08 1998 Subject: RE:Heck Zzyzx, CA (Named after the sound of trucks going by) from gwr@seanet.com Thu Feb 19 12:39:00 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA10080 for; Subject: Re: Hell You guys are missing out on the fun places. Back in PA, I was near toVirginville, Peach Bottom, and Intercourse, though if didn't luck out in anyof those places and you wound up in Blue Ball, you could always solve yourproblems in Bird-in-Hand.-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Hell Or Chicken Bristle Illinois. -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Thursday, February 19, 1998 9:36 AM Subject: Re: Hell Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Not to mentionSeedTick, Arkansas, or Jigger, Louisiana!! from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Thu Feb 19 15:48:42 1998 Subject: Disaster PAA21017 HiI have just come back from the river after trying out my fifth rod.I set off with a two piece 8' rod and came home with a three piece rod. Therod has been made to the 212E taper.The tip section snapped clean off just inside the ferrule, half way throughthe sixth back cast. It did not go with a cracking sound but more of aquiet tear sound and the bamboo inside of the rod is not a hard splinteredfracture like I expected but more of a softer texture and an almost cleansaw cut.I am at a loss as to what I have done wrong in building the rod, can anyonegive me any help or suggestions. Thanks Mick Woodruff. . from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Thu Feb 19 16:35:51 1998 Subject: Re- Trip to England QAA23483 If you are stopping in London on your trip, go down to Pall Mall. There youwill find the Hardy shop at one end and a shop called Tight Lines (I think)at the other end along with Farlows, which sells from fly tying materialsto rods and clothing. This is quite a posh shop and is not the cheapest inEngland, however there maybe something there of interest instead ofHarrodsshopping. At the other end of the arcade that Farlows is in there is aPiscatoria shop (I think I spelt that correctly).As far as fishing goes the end of Febuary should be ok for river fishing Fisheries are usually open all year and the magazine Trout and Salmon willgive you reports for all the major rivers in the U.K. Regards Mick Woodruff. from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 16:46:31 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA15841 for Subject: Re: Disaster At 04:21 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote:HiI have just come back from the river after trying out my fifth rod.I set off with a two piece 8' rod and came home with a three piece rod.Therod has been made to the 212E taper.The tip section snapped clean off just inside the ferrule, half waythroughthe sixth back cast. It did not go with a cracking sound but more of aquiet tear sound and the bamboo inside of the rod is not a hard splinteredfracture like I expected but more of a softer texture and an almost cleansaw cut.I am at a loss as to what I have done wrong in building the rod, cananyonegive me any help or suggestions. Thanks Mick Woodruff. . Mick,First, my condolences. My only thought on the matter is how much you mayhave reduced the blank to mount the ferrule. If you removed any fibersfromthe flats to fit the tube you probably provided a hinge for the cane. Also,if you fitted the cane by hand and not by use of a lathe, you may have"canted" the action off the axis of the rod as a unit and that may havecaused a rupture. If I'm off the mark, your answers to my queries mayprovide others with data to further troubleshoot your problem. Again, I'msorry to hear of your disaster. (I once hung a fully glued and straightenedblank in a drying cabinet over a 100 watt bulb using masking tape toprovidea loop for hanging. I returned two days later to find that the tape's gluehad softened, the blank had dropped so as to lean against the bulb, and thelignin had completely burned away, reducing the blank's tips by fully sixinches. The point? We've all been there!)Good luck,Art from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 19 16:53:12 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster Mick - It's hard to say without seeing the rod. I have seen older rods faillike that due to stress from an improperly prepared ferrule. ( not enoughtaper, or no serrations, or both.) Due to the swiftness of your failure,however, I would suspect some sort of a notch effect in the cane itself.Didyou have a smooth transition from the round to the hex? Use too small aferrule and remove too many power fibers? from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 17:01:46 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA16667 for Subject: Re: Block PLanes All,I haven't been on this server long enough to know if this has been a pastproblem for you fellows (I'm only about a third of the way through thearchives) but I HATE to hollow grind plane blades (before the final"microsharpening"?) and have the patience of a Tasmanian Devil about it.Since I'm regrinding my planes to reclaim them from years ofwoodworking-only, (nary a rod built in about 10 years!)I saw somewhere (Ithink it was WOOD Magazine) that you can avoid burning the temper of theedge (my national pastime) by hot gluing a sponge to the top of the leadingedge of the blade-to-be-ground and keeping it WET. I tried it (after afashion; I didn't bother gluing it down) and I finally did a whole edgewithout burning even a little dot of the steel. I think it's even easier tojust dump the (1" by 1" by 2-2 1/2") piece of sponge in the water can andreplace it on top of the blade's edge every time you think it isn't runningenough water down the blade onto your hand. If this is news and I haven'tdescribed it well enough lemme know. Now back to the other 5 blades Ineedto "touch up".Art from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:17:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hell Athol is a scottish name there is a tune I used to play on me pipes calledAthol and Bredalben.Bret from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:31:05 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster Mick -What bamboo did you use to make the rod with ????? Wayne from vjwilson@micron.net Thu Feb 19 17:32:26 1998 Subject: Re: Hell i have always thought that "athol" is something my wifemight call me if she had a speech impediment.leonard from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:34:56 1998 Subject: Bamboo rod Magazine Hey I got my magazine today , well I got what was left of it(sniff) thestinking postoffice destroyed my copy so I can only guess what the totalcontents are. Well maybe I can get it replaced.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:34:58 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hell How about Gnawbone ,Indiana or better yet French Lick.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 17:37:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hell How close is Intercourse Pa. to Climax, Mich? from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 18:08:42 1998 Subject: TS 4000 Wayne,Found a TS 4000 for $30.00 at Menards .Bret from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 19 18:09:26 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id TAA13591 for; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 19:09:21 -0500 Subject: Pictures Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 19 18:40:35 1998 Subject: adhesives Chris;Thanks for the info; if you and Bill say its good for that long thats goodenuf for me. They probably put that on the can as a C.Y.A. sort of thing.John Channer from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 19 18:44:26 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Hey, you must have gone to I.U.!Nobody knows where Gnawbone is!(Right near Storey and Bean Blossom)Brian from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 19 18:53:47 1998 Subject: plane blades Art;It sounds to me like you're sharpening on an electric ginder. Since I amthe undisputed king of burning blades on a ginder, I never get my Hockblades out of the plane if the ginder is even plugged in. Instead I put theinitial 30d. bevel on with a medium diamond stone and sharpening guide(onsstone type)then got to the 600/1000 waterstone. Hope this is of use.John Channer from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Feb 19 19:26:44 1998 Subject: Glue Hi All, I called the Nelson Paint Co. today and ordered my glue. I have decidedto go with the Urac 185. If anyone has any sugestions or caveats, goahead and shoot them at me. I heat treated in a copper tube, ala George Barnes book. I'm not tooworried at this point about getting that end perfect, I feel that I havereally gained a great deal of knowledge from the endeavor on this firstrod to this point. The thing is this darn thing looks good enough at this point that Idon't want to mess it up. I am mindful of Picasso's "I sell myselfnothing!". I am afraid I am not to there yet. I am going to start planing another rod tomorrow. I am anxious to keepthe curve going. and saw an item called Bloxygen. It reminded me that someone on thelist was looking for a gas to cover their varnishes. This is a mixtureof inert gasses, that is made expressly for that purpose. Sold in aspray can for $8.95. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Feb 19 19:57:53 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA14973; Thu, 19 Feb 199820:57:13 Subject: Re: Hell At 06:36 PM 2/19/98 EST, Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote:How close is Intercourse Pa. to Climax, Mich? Perhaps to far? from wmopper@ccaonline.com Thu Feb 19 20:01:39 1998 20:02:39-0600 Subject: RE: Hell =_NextPart_000_01BD3D71.54708160" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3D71.54708160 Sure Gnawbone is well known. Even here in Illinois we know of theFightingPossums of Gnawbone U. Bill ---------- Subject: Re: Hell Hey, you must have gone to I.U.!Nobody knows where Gnawbone is!(Right near Storey and Bean Blossom)Brian ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3D71.54708160 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD3D71.54708160-- from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 19 20:01:52 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA19845 for; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:01:48 -0500 Subject: Re: plane blades john channer wrote: Art;It sounds to me like you're sharpening on an electric ginder. Since I amthe undisputed king of burning blades on a ginder, I never get my Hockblades out of the plane if the ginder is even plugged in. Instead I put theinitial 30d. bevel on with a medium diamond stone and sharpeningguide(onsstone type)then got to the 600/1000 waterstone. Hope this is of use.John Channer John you should check out the Makita electric wetstone, it has a castiron system for holding jointer blades and planer blades but can be used or so. Makes the perfect edge.......runs real slow and uses water tocool and remove metal from building up in the stone.....the wheels areabout 7" in dia....down to 9000 grit I think.Dave Price from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Thu Feb 19 20:11:02 1998 (AST) 19 Feb 98 21:16:19 -0500 0500 19 Feb 98 21:16:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures Dave nice page I hope that you have the time to expand it. By the way nicefish. Also where did you get the design for the binder?-----Original Message----- Subject: Pictures Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Feb 19 20:16:55 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Hell Naw never went to IU just good at Indiana history.bret from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Thu Feb 19 20:22:19 1998 (AST) 19 Feb 98 21:27:43 -0500 0500 19 Feb 98 21:27:11 -0500 Subject: planes boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0054_01BD3D7D.2127BA60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BD3D7D.2127BA60 I have a stupid question. Is the Stanley 9.5 called that because it is =9.5 inches long or is there a model 9.5? My hardware shop is no help in =this. I hope someone here can help me..John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BD3D7D.2127BA60 I have a stupid question. Is the Stanley 9.5= that because it is 9.5 inches long or is there a model 9.5? My hardware = no help in this. I hope someone here can help me..John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0054_01BD3D7D.2127BA60-- from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 19 20:37:32 1998 Subject: Official Grayrock 98 Fly About a year and a half ago, our friend, Sam got inspired in creating anewhex pattern. Sam who is conscience of the current social concerns becamecreative with a glow in the dark condom. Using small strips of the condom,Samties these strips into the extended bodies of his favorite hex pattern.Whenfishing the flies - hit them with a flashlight and they can be seen with aerie green glow - which the fish find interesting enough to chomp on. Oh -thename of the pattern - Safe Hex - the official fly for Grayrock 98 Wayne from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 19 20:43:07 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA21838 for; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 21:43:01 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures John McKinnon wrote: Dave nice page I hope that you have the time to expand it. By the waynicefish. Also where did you get the design for the binder?-----Original Message-----From: David Price Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 7:22 PMSubject: Pictures Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price Saw a design on someones page a little while ago, And adapted it tomaterials that I had around......when I get more time I could putdrawings up on the page if there is interest, but it is basicly the sameone I saw on one of the lister's pages....I have to find a better beltor make one out of surgical tubing(rubber)with a few raps of stringinside...Need to add a tray to catch glue also.... Dave Price (going for steelies in the next couple of days)Thanks for the comments, The page will be real big some day....I'm intomany hobbies and build a lot of my own tools and things....and might try to put real time shop video on the net soon!!!!!(in the shop machining afly reel at the moment) from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Feb 19 20:54:29 1998 Subject: Re: planes John McKinnon wrote: I have a stupid question. Is the Stanley 9.5 called that because it is9.5 inches long or is there a model 9.5? My hardware shop is no helpin this. I hope someone here can help me..John F. McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca It's not 9-1/2" John, it is their standard block plane. The numbers onit are changed, I believe it is a 1220 or something on that order. from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Thu Feb 19 21:28:55 1998 8.7/8.7) idWAA14914 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 19 Feb 1998 22:26:48 - Subject: Re: Bamboo rod Magazine Sounds as if the same guy (mis)handled my Premier Issue of the magazine- afew ragged corners and the mailing label was almost completelydestroyed.Hope the next issues arrive in better shape.Hey I got my magazine today , well I got what was left of it(sniff) thestinking postoffice destroyed my copy so I can only guess what the totalcontents are. Well maybe I can get it replaced.Bret from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 22:11:25 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA15071 for Subject: Re: plane blades At 04:42 PM 2/19/98, you wrote:Art;It sounds to me like you're sharpening on an electric ginder. Since I amthe undisputed king of burning blades on a ginder, I never get my Hockblades out of the plane if the ginder is even plugged in. Instead I put theinitial 30d. bevel on with a medium diamond stone and sharpeningguide(onsstone type)then got to the 600/1000 waterstone. Hope this is of use.John Channer John,I only do this once every millenium, to get a hollow-grind (ground?)on the blades so they're easier to "micro-hone" (only the leading andtrailing edges sit on the stone and not the whole damn face). It reallyworks well when you're just touching up the edge and it lasts for about adozen or more "touch-ups" before you must hollow-grind again. Once youfigure how to not burn the @$^&$#^%# thing it's even a feeling ofaccomplishment! (It's also a matter of honor or frugality that I won'tspendwhat they get for a waterstone.) Have you ever tried the "Scary Sharp"method of sharpening? I'm just giving it a workout and so far it seems todoas good a job as my Arkansas stones! I saw a post somewhere on the web(here?) that one swipe of the blade removes the grit from the paper, butthat has not been my experience. I use a little WD 40 as a lube and thepaper lasts just fine (relatively speaking). I've been a heavy duty woodworking hobbyist and garage saler andover the years have been lucky ( or greedy) enough to amass about 5Stanley9 1/2s ,a 60 , and several of those little "skunk-tail" planes so when Idecide "to sharpen" it's no small undertaking. Since I'm fortunate enoughto have them I like to have a bunch of the 9 1/2 s set up so I don't have tostop in the midst of something to rewhet. I don't think I was getting themsharp enough in the past because, while I had no problems with thegluelines, I kept getting bursitis type problems in my planing shoulder--enough so that I finally gave up the planing after 20 rods. You can bet I'mwatching the thread on waxing the planes VERRRRRY closely! Hell, with allthe spares I'm lucky to have, I can use a waxed one down to the last fewthou s and then switch to an uncontaminated one! I'm also investigatingthedesign with the 3/4" groove down the center, but that seems to leavesomegap in your predicted accuracy unless you again switch to another,perfect,plane. Anyway, thanks for the response. Be talking to you,Art from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 19 22:21:12 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA15670 for Subject: Re: Glue At 07:27 PM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi All, I called the Nelson Paint Co. today and ordered my glue. I have decidedto go with the Urac 185. If anyone has any sugestions or caveats, goahead and shoot them at me. I heat treated in a copper tube, ala George Barnes book. I'm not tooworried at this point about getting that end perfect, I feel that I havereally gained a great deal of knowledge from the endeavor on this firstrod to this point. The thing is this darn thing looks good enough at this point that Idon't want to mess it up. I am mindful of Picasso's "I sell myselfnothing!". I am afraid I am not to there yet. I am going to start planing another rod tomorrow. I am anxious to keepthe curve going. and saw an item called Bloxygen. It reminded me that someone on thelist was looking for a gas to cover their varnishes. This is a mixtureof inert gasses, that is made expressly for that purpose. Sold in aspray can for $8.95. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve,I know I'm coming out of left field with this info, and you shouldwait 'til others chime in on the subject, but I had a rod delaminate on meafter a few months and after the spitting and cursing was over I contactedatech rep at American Cyanamide. His suggestion was that the ratio on thecanwas for material that is more porous than cane and that, instead of 2 to 1 any grief. Did it affect the action? I can't say. But it certainly held therods together after MY first disaster. Good luck,Art from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Feb 19 22:57:18 1998 Subject: Re: Glue At 11:38 PM 2/19/98 -0500, you wrote: You might want to go to Rodmaker page Jerry has a FAQ by J. Zimny thatcould help.Gary At 07:27 PM 2/19/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi All, I called the Nelson Paint Co. today and ordered my glue. I have decidedto go with the Urac 185. If anyone has any sugestions or caveats, goahead and shoot them at me. I heat treated in a copper tube, ala George Barnes book. I'm not tooworried at this point about getting that end perfect, I feel that I havereally gained a great deal of knowledge from the endeavor on this firstrod to this point. The thing is this darn thing looks good enough at this point that Idon't want to mess it up. I am mindful of Picasso's "I sell myselfnothing!". I am afraid I am not to there yet. I am going to start planing another rod tomorrow. I am anxious to keepthe curve going. and saw an item called Bloxygen. It reminded me that someone on thelist was looking for a gas to cover their varnishes. This is a mixtureof inert gasses, that is made expressly for that purpose. Sold in aspray can for $8.95. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve,I know I'm coming out of left field with this info, and you shouldwait 'til others chime in on the subject, but I had a rod delaminate on meafter a few months and after the spitting and cursing was over Icontacted atech rep at American Cyanamide. His suggestion was that the ratio on thecanwas for material that is more porous than cane and that, instead of 2 to 1 meany grief. Did it affect the action? I can't say. But it certainly held therods together after MY first disaster. Good luck,Art from rhicks@d.umn.edu Fri Feb 20 00:16:16 1998 00:16:13 -0600 mail.d.umn.edu (8.8.6.Beta3/8.8.3) with SMTP id AAA28972 for Subject: Re: Glue 199819:27:43 -0800 Steve, I just glued my first three rod sections with URAC 185 last night. I usedthe 4:1 volume ratio (resin:hardener) that the Garrison and Cattanachbooksrecommend. The tips sections went well but I almost messed the buttsection up by having a binder failure during the first wrap. The rubberband that I use on the big pulley of my Garrison style binder broke in halfeither from being dissolved by the glue or from erosion by the bindingcord. Anyway, keep some spare rubber bands handy if you have a Garrisonbinder. Here are some other tips that may help you. 1. I sieved the powdered hardener with a paint sieve. It removed severallarger chips in this walnut powder. Make sure you don't remove the clearto whitish crystals (ammonium chloride); they are the real catalyst. 2. Have everything laid out (eg. binder already assembled, glue mixing andapplying area ready, straightening area covered with newspaper, etc.) andrun through the process once before you glue. Once you start to mix theglue, you only have about 15-20 minutes before it starts to thicken somuchthat everything is really tacky. Then you don't have time to go look forsomething or make a new binder belt. A toothbrush worked really well forapplying the glue. I wiped the rods down with a damp sponge to removeexcess glue after binding (had a bucket with warm water and a spongeready)but always wiped each section down afterwards with a dry cloth before Ididany straightening. 3. KNOW YOUR BINDER. I practiced binding the six strips of tip and buttsections without glue to find the best tension on the binding string andthe best weight on the cord running through the binder. I foundcombinations for the tip and butt sections that would not put a twist ineither of them. This really helped build my confidence. I used a 1 lb.weight on the first binding pass for the tips and then a 1.5 lb weight onthe second pass. For the butt section, I used a 1.5 lb weight on the firstpass and then a 2.5 lb. weight on the second pass. There were no twists inany of the sections I glued and they came out of the binder prettystraight. I made a new binding cord for each section, so I started fresh instead ofhaving a gluey one. In hindsight, I should have checked and changed therubber band on the large pulley on the binder. 4. I built a drying tube before I glued like many people on this list (alaGarrison). I made it from a 1.5 inch PVC tube (54 in. long) and a wood boxwith a 100 watt light bulb (chimney effect). My basement is alwaysnearly55 deg. F during the day and night if I do not have the electric heat on(it's cool in Duluth, MN). The drying tube temperature is about 20 deg.higher than ambient (eg. it is usually 78-80 deg. F in the drying tube whenthe basement is 55 deg. F). I think this was a good move since the labelon URAC says not to glue below 65 deg. F. When I glued, I boosted thebasement temperature up to 65 deg. F but held the mixed glue in an icebathto increase the open time (It didn't seem to help that much). Make surethat you mix the glue thoroughly. I mixed for 5 minutes. This left lessthan 15 minutes to apply the glue, bind a section, and straighten. I madefresh glue (about 1 oz.) for each section as I needed it. I felt like Ijust had enough time to get everything done. If I would have had twists ormany kinks in each section from bad binding, then I don't know what Iwouldhave done (besides curse, pull my hair out, and panic). 5. Have "The Force" with you. I was scared to death as I was doing itthis first time and I probably got a little lucky. It took me about 20-35minutes per section to glue, bind, and straighten depending on how long ittook me at the binder. Having everthing laid out where I needed it andthen first running through the entire process without using glue reallyhelped me. Good luck. I hope your first attempt turns out as good as I think mine did(I'll know for sure when I finish the rod). P.S. I also had to build up my courage to glue the sections having neverseen it done before. I finished planing two weeks ago but built the dryingtube and also just gazed at the "beautiful" planed strips (to me anyway)before I "messed" them up with glue. ================================================= Subject: Glue Hi All, I called the Nelson Paint Co. today and ordered my glue. I have decidedto go with the Urac 185. If anyone has any sugestions or caveats, goahead and shoot them at me. I heat treated in a copper tube, ala George Barnes book. I'm not tooworried at this point about getting that end perfect, I feel that I havereally gained a great deal of knowledge from the endeavor on this firstrod to this point. The thing is this darn thing looks good enough at this point that Idon't want to mess it up. I am mindful of Picasso's "I sell myselfnothing!". I am afraid I am not to there yet. I am going to start planing another rod tomorrow. I am anxious to keepthe curve going. and saw an item called Bloxygen. It reminded me that someone on thelist was looking for a gas to cover their varnishes. This is a mixtureof inert gasses, that is made expressly for that purpose. Sold in aspray can for $8.95. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 20 01:08:02 1998 Subject: plane blades Dave;Sounds like something I should look into, we have a tool store that dealsMakita here in Durango( this is more of a miracle than it sounds).I'veheard of electric wetstone systems, but I didn't know that they came withstones that fine. Thanks for the tip.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 20 01:25:05 1998 Subject: plane blades Art;Please don't even say the word bursitis, I had it in my right shoulderabout 20 yrs. ago, still hurts to think about it. The cortizone shot theygave me for it hurt even worse. I wanted to try a plane with a groove init, but there isn't a machinist in this town, so I used some stainlesssteel tape I used to use for heat protection on Corian countertops and itworks great. I have to replace it for every rod, but I figure I've gotabout 30 rods worth left. I don't have to sharpen more than 2 blades for arod and I don't gouge up my forms any more. As far as planing accuracygoes, I set the blade so it will just touch the form, then back off a hair.Works for me.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 20 01:47:04 1998 Subject: glue Steve;I used Urac for my first 6 rods, works fine, but you have to work fast andkeep a bucket of water handy, its real sticky. The last few rods I built Iused ammonium chloride dissolved in water for the catalyst instead of thepowder that came with it and it seems much better to work with, a littlemore time to straiten and thinner consistency, also better glue lines andmy rods measure out much closer to the intended taper than with thepowdercatalyst you get with the resin. I was having a lot of trouble with mysections being much fatter than they should be. This came recomended tome I haven't used the rods I've glued this way enuf to know, yet.Good luck toyou.John Channer from mduclos@mail.advertisnet.com Fri Feb 20 06:21:35 1998 with SMTP id AAA160 for ;Fri, 20 Feb 1998 06:19:00 -0600 Subject: Thanks for NiAg suppliers I appreciate the quick response. I contacted www.metalmart (the web sitewasconvenient since I have to do this stuff after work or on weekends). Theyhave just what I need.Thanks again!!mike d -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Suppliers www.metalmart.com is one source (no minimum order). They advertisein HSM (Home Shop Machinist magazine out of Traverse City, MI). Othersources can be found in HSM as well. George Bourke ----------From: Michael G. Duclos Subject: Nickel Silver SuppliersDate: Thursday, February 19, 1998 4:10 AM I've been trying to find sources for nickel silver (sheet, rod, or plate)and haven't had much luck. Does anyone know of such sources? thanks in advancemike d -----Original Message-----From: Ken Date: Thursday, February 19, 1998 1:18 AMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver lets not nickel and dime ourselves to death on this subject ! Ken -----Original Message-----From: Steve Leach Date: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 10:22 PMSubject: Re: Nickel Silver Should that be not be 65% copper, 5% to 25% nickel, and 10% to30% zinc ?? On 18 Feb 98 at 10:59, Ken wrote: Nickel silver is usually 65% nickel, 5% to 25% copper and 10% to 30%zinc. from rmoon@ida.net Fri Feb 20 07:30:47 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Please!! You are driving me to Hell. Can we not let this childishthread to some other list.? from RBausum@radiantsystems.com Fri Feb 20 07:40:08 1998 (8.8.5/SMI-5.4-PSI) (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Hell I seem to recall a Troutman and Troutville in Southwest Virginia! -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Wednesday, February 18, 1998 6:53 PM Subject: Hell What about Boring Oregon? from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 20 07:40:32 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Amen Ralph Jerry from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 20 07:45:21 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA26161 for Subject: Re: plane blades At 11:13 PM 2/19/98, you wrote:Art;Please don't even say the word bursitis, I had it in my right shoulderabout 20 yrs. ago, still hurts to think about it. The cortizone shot theygave me for it hurt even worse. I wanted to try a plane with a groove init, but there isn't a machinist in this town, so I used some stainlesssteel tape I used to use for heat protection on Corian countertops and itworks great. I have to replace it for every rod, but I figure I've gotabout 30 rods worth left. I don't have to sharpen more than 2 blades for arod and I don't gouge up my forms any more. As far as planing accuracygoes, I set the blade so it will just touch the form, then back off a hair.Works for me.John Channer John,You've verified what an orthopedist told me back then; If I give youa shot of this (I think he said it would be Lydocaine but I'm working up tothe "Z" in alzheimers) you'll love me now but you'll want me dead bymidnight. I guess it isn't ALWAYS the miracle drug we think it is. Godknowswhat those guys on the gridiron must go through when they " just get ashotto kill the pain" and go back on the field to finish the game, eh? I wasalso consideringthat strip idea of yours, but I was thinking brass shimstock glued to the outer edge of the plane as runners. I guess if thestainless wears away as fast as you say, I'd better add a significantamountof downtime to replenishing the brass or find something a helluva lotstronger (harder?) to use as runners.I hadn't considered that aspect of ityet! Also, if the stuff is as sacrificial as you say, doesn't it change theeffective height of the blade continuously?How do you affix the stainless to the plane (or does the word "tape" imply"self-stick?) and how do you get rid of the residue of glue when thestainless is no longer useful? That sounds like it may be more troublethanit's worth.I feel like a horse's patoot about my glue ratio suggestion of lastnight to Steve. I don't ever remember seeing the 4 to 1 ratio in Garrison'sfirst edition (and I merely skimmed the other editions and Wayne's bookwhenthey came out). When I read Randall's response to Steve this am, I thoughthe was very polite to not point out the obviousness of my suggestion toanyone who could read. AND I think I'd better go back and REALLY read botheditions and Wayne's book to FULLY refresh my memory before trying torestart on autopilot.You can bet we'll be in touch. I'm off to do some fishing in theLehigh Valley today. Can you believe my wife is practically throwing meoutof the house to get me into the (I hope) sun and out of the basement andthe computer room (which is also sunless)? Some of us are truly blessed; Ihardly EVER get "the look" and when I do, BOY, do deserve it!!.Art from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Feb 20 08:29:04 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Pictures David,Looks like you have made a good start towards an interesting page. Justoutof curiosity, what material did you use for the rough planing forms; i.e.the red stuff?Harry Boyd David Price wrote: Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Fri Feb 20 08:36:14 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA18535 for; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:36:11 -0500 Subject: Re: plane blades john channer wrote: Dave;Sounds like something I should look into, we have a tool store that dealsMakita here in Durango( this is more of a miracle than it sounds).I'veheard of electric wetstone systems, but I didn't know that they camewithstones that fine. Thanks for the tip.John Channer John I had to buy the 9000 stone as an assecsory and it was about 50bucks 15 years ago......the machine itself is about 225.00 I think...Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Fri Feb 20 08:47:24 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA19077 for; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 09:47:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures Harry Boyd wrote: David,Looks like you have made a good start towards an interesting page. Justoutof curiosity, what material did you use for the rough planing forms; i.e.the red stuff?Harry Boyd David Price wrote: Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price Harry I used purpleheart that I had laying around......It's hard as rockand heavy......because of its color contrast against the bamboo I guessyou can tell when you are taking some off the surface......Havn't usedthem yet but will as soon as I get some bamboo!!!!Dave Price from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Feb 20 08:53:03 1998 0500 Subject: glue There is a letter in the Tips and Techniques section of the Bamboo Flyrod magazine (premier issue) from someone who once used Urac (number not specified) and had 2 rods delaminate in the butt after the first couple casts. My admitedly limited understanding is that some of the very best rods have been built using the stuff, but apparently how it's prepared and applied is extremely important (as a previous entry states)...Andy from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Feb 20 08:56:33 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures Dave,I thought I heard you say you had purple heart once before. Where did youcome by it?Gary At 09:46 AM 2/20/98 -0800, you wrote:Harry Boyd wrote: David,Looks like you have made a good start towards an interesting page. Justoutof curiosity, what material did you use for the rough planing forms; i.e.the red stuff?Harry Boyd David Price wrote: Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price Harry I used purpleheart that I had laying around......It's hard as rockand heavy......because of its color contrast against the bamboo I guessyou can tell when you are taking some off the surface......Havn't usedthem yet but will as soon as I get some bamboo!!!!Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Fri Feb 20 09:17:05 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id KAA20561 for; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:17:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures G.W.Heidt wrote: Dave,I thought I heard you say you had purple heart once before. Where didyoucome by it?Gary I got it off a freind that was moving his shop for free(about 50bdft)it's was hanging around for years(nowbody likes to use it it's veryhard and wipes out tools).......There is a lumber yard near me inBalston Spa N.Y. that has a large amount in stock, some pretty bigpieces infact. If you are looking for some I might be able to helpout!!. Depending in what area you are from!!.Dave Price from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 20 09:29:54 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Pictures Dave,I can't seem to retrieve your page. HELP!Bret from d_price@global2000.net Fri Feb 20 09:51:37 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id KAA22544 for; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:51:33 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Dave,I can't seem to retrieve your page. HELP!Bret Bret, I never tried it on aol.....Just put it up and only has a coupleof picts on it so far.....I will see if my brother-inlaw can get it heson aol!!!!!!. Anybody else on aol tried yet????.Sorry that there's a problem!!!. Maybe I put one of the links wrong in amessage to the list, I will go back and check them?? Dave Price "http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price" from d_price@global2000.net Fri Feb 20 09:55:20 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id KAA22704 for; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 10:55:17 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Dave,I can't seem to retrieve your page. HELP!Bret One thing I noticed is when I went back and checked my inbox, is thatyou don't see the underscore between the d and price. But that wouldonly make a diff.if you are typing it in!!!Dave Price from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 20 10:06:50 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Pictures Dave,I tried both _ and - and neither worked. Is this the wrong sign on thekeyboard.Bret from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Feb 20 12:05:00 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA12400 for Subject: Info? To the List,Can anyone help me with the address or phone number of Custom TackleSupply, somewhere in Tennesee or thereabouts? I've been trying to gettheircatalog all winter.Epon has a very extended shelf life, many years. Observing all thisadhesive chit-chat, can't help thinking that those who use something elseare masochists.(Except for Titebond II on nodeless splices). Bill from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Fri Feb 20 12:59:16 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 20 Feb 98 13:57:49 EST Subject: The magazine In the first paragraph of the first article of the first issue, I justdon't expect to see typos and puncuation errors. I can live with thelayout problems for now and think of them as something to be resolvewithexperience, but I just can't live with really sloppy copy editing. It'sthe equivalent of not bothering to watch the spacing of nodes, orpermitting wide gaps in a glue line. Part of the purpose of any magazineis purely commercial, to sell advertising space. That's fine, even auseful service to caneists, but that is not all, nor can it be. Bamboo rodbuilding is not simply a commercial activity and the editors must knowthiswell. This craft represents the very best of craftways and the magazineshould as well. --Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 20 13:12:07 1998 Subject: Re: The magazine Bob,Give these guys a break did you ever see the first copies of Fly fishermanmagazine or any other mags that were just starting out. A lot of theseweren't so great to look at either. My suggestion is don't criticize justyetit was a pretty hard start just to get where it is now. And besides I don'tsee any publications with your name on them floating around out there. Nooffence for my next statement but it looks to me like you are just a kidstillin college with no worldly experience yet on what it takes to get abusinessup and going. So please Bob just wait and next year at this time let's seewhere Mark has taken this thing and then we can criticize.Bret from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 20 13:28:20 1998 Subject: Re: The magazine Be glad you got your copy. I don't have mine yet, and I hope when it getshere that the mailman didn't eat it. ----------From: Robert Milardo Subject: The magazineDate: Friday, February 20, 1998 7:02 AM In the first paragraph of the first article of the first issue, I justdon't expect to see typos and puncuation errors. I can live with thelayout problems for now and think of them as something to be resolvewithexperience, but I just can't live with really sloppy copy editing. It'sthe equivalent of not bothering to watch the spacing of nodes, orpermitting wide gaps in a glue line. Part of the purpose of any magazineis purely commercial, to sell advertising space. That's fine, even auseful service to caneists, but that is not all, nor can it be. Bamboorodbuilding is not simply a commercial activity and the editors must knowthiswell. This craft represents the very best of craftways and themagazineshould as well. --Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from tedgodfreys@erols.com Fri Feb 20 13:29:10 1998 Subject: Re: Info? -----Original Message----- Subject: Info? To the List,Can anyone help me with the address or phone number of Custom TackleSupply, somewhere in Tennesee or thereabouts? I've been trying to gettheircatalog all winter. Bill, Custom Tackle Supply - 2559 hwy. 41A S. - Shelbyville, Tn. 37160 phone: (931) 684 6164 Ted from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Fri Feb 20 13:32:57 1998 Subject: Disaster Part 2 NAA30179 Thanks For the swift replies and condolences, re my snapping 8' foot rod, Iwill try and answer all the questions raised... The cane I used was purchased from a rod builder in Lincoln (U.K)and he assures me it is Tonkin cane. This is the second rod I have built from this batch of cane and the first rod is working fine. I used a-serrated nikel silver ferrule from Belvoirdale Services,which is stated to be a number 13.8 as opposed to a 14 which the 212etaperspecified. The difference in ferrule size is apparently due to the nikelsilver now being produced in metric sizes only. I do not have a lathe so I have to hand file and sand the ferrulestations and now you mention it the transition from the round to the hexdoes actually taper up quite sharply after about a 1/2" from the end ofthe ferrule. In addition to this I now notice that I have actually reducedthe overall diameter of the rod section somewhat to fit the ferrule,,,,oopsit looks like I have filed away the power fibres just above the ferrule.Just one last thought, I mounted this ferrule smack on the mid point ofthe rod, ie I made two sections of 48' long, this is the correct place tomount a ferrule isn't it. Just one other last thought, I heat treat the bamboo with a butane blowlamp before I start putting the taper into the sections. It can be as longas a month between this point and the rod being glued and then varnished.During this period the sections of bamboo and indeed the glued rod arestored in my garage ,(ambient temperature at this time of year beingabout5 centigrade in the garage, its miserable and damp in Yorkshire in thewinter) could the bamboo have absorbed too much moisture in this periodand should I play the blow lamp over the glued rod before I varnish it orwould this be detremental to the rod. Thanks for any help Mick Woodruff. from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Fri Feb 20 14:31:31 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 20 Feb 98 15:30:26 EST Subject: Re: The magazine Bret, Please don't misunderstand the spirit of my comments. Some ofwhat Isaw seemed to me just plain sloppy. Perhaps to you it looked different.(For comparative purposes, check out the first issue of Steelhead andSalmon. I think last year or perhaps the year before.) I would like tosee these fellows become very successful. I'm impressed with the volumeofadvertising they mustered up for this first issue. I can understand therisk involved. I hope they continue, but with a finer touch. Bret I think the personal part of your commentary was not really calledfor, but for the record I have three books published, several dozenarticles, and I've been an editor for more years than I'd like to count.How about you? BobAt 02:10 PM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote:Bob,Give these guys a break did you ever see the first copies of Fly fishermanmagazine or any other mags that were just starting out. A lot of theseweren't so great to look at either. My suggestion is don't criticize justyetit was a pretty hard start just to get where it is now. And besides I don'tsee any publications with your name on them floating around out there. Nooffence for my next statement but it looks to me like you are just a kidstillin college with no worldly experience yet on what it takes to get abusinessup and going. So please Bob just wait and next year at this time let's seewhere Mark has taken this thing and then we can criticize.Bret from JDemp1@aol.com Fri Feb 20 15:00:38 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 I visited Barry in Lincolin this past Jan, I can assure you it was properTonkin cane that you recieved from him. Jed from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Feb 20 16:33:20 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 Mick - The ferrule is in the right place. The sections should be equallength.It sounds like you took too much off the cane, and compounded the problembymaking the round section too long. The cane should be hex at the end of theferrule, or very close to it You might try salvaging the tip by shortening ita couple inches and re mounting the ferrule. It should fit better, and itwon't hurt the action of the 212 much, you may even like it better. Thereareno absolute rules on ferrule size. I try never to reduce the flat diameter bymore than a couple thou. If you mount the ferrules with epoxy, you don'thaveto have a perfectly round cane section, and can use the next largest size.I doubt that the moisture caused the break, but I would not store a rod inprogress, or a finished one in those conditions. Keep the sections in aheatedenviorment. from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 20 17:06:48 1998 with SMTP id AAA23360 for ;Fri, 20 Feb 1998 23:06:14 +0000 message Subject: Re: Pictures RAA28998 Nice looking machine, Dave!! Did you build it yourself? If so, kudos! Dennis ----------Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 20 17:06:56 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03224 for Subject: Re: Pictures At 09:46 AM 2/20/98 -0800, you wrote:Harry Boyd wrote: David,Looks like you have made a good start towards an interesting page. Justoutof curiosity, what material did you use for the rough planing forms; i.e.the red stuff?Harry Boyd David Price wrote: Hi all,Pictures of my binder on a page I just started(nothing realy there yet)you might find interesting, if not then atleast it got you out of hell."http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price"Dave Price Harry I used purpleheart that I had laying around......It's hard as rockand heavy......because of its color contrast against the bamboo I guessyou can tell when you are taking some off the surface......Havn't usedthem yet but will as soon as I get some bamboo!!!!Dave Price Dave,What the HELL do you do with your life that you have that amount ofPURPLEHEART "laying around". Are you a GD lumber yard???? I've neverseenthe stuff except in pictures of "art furniture" and I do a fair amount ofbusiness with a hard wood dealer for my cabinetmaking. "Laying around"?Aswe Noo Yawkahs are supposed to say: "Waddya-waddya?Art from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 20 17:12:52 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA03684 for Subject: Re: Info? At 01:04 PM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote:To the List,Can anyone help me with the address or phone number of Custom TackleSupply, somewhere in Tennesee or thereabouts? I've been trying to gettheircatalog all winter.Epon has a very extended shelf life, many years. Observing all thisadhesive chit- chat, can't help thinking that those who use something elseare masochists.(Except for Titebond II on nodeless splices). Bill Bill,It's at 615-684-6164. The address is: Custom Tackle Supply 2559 Hwy 41A SShelbyville, TN 37160 Glad to help,Art from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 20 17:33:14 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA04813 for Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 At 02:30 PM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote:Thanks For the swift replies and condolences, re my snapping 8' foot rod,Iwill try and answer all the questions raised... The cane I used was purchased from a rod builder in Lincoln (U.K)and he assures me it is Tonkin cane. This is the second rod I have built from this batch of cane and the first rod is working fine. I used a-serrated nikel silver ferrule from Belvoirdale Services,which is stated to be a number 13.8 as opposed to a 14 which the 212etaperspecified. The difference in ferrule size is apparently due to the nikelsilver now being produced in metric sizes only. I do not have a lathe so I have to hand file and sand the ferrulestations and now you mention it the transition from the round to the hexdoes actually taper up quite sharply after about a 1/2" from the end ofthe ferrule. In addition to this I now notice that I have actually reducedthe overall diameter of the rod section somewhat to fit theferrule,,,,oopsit looks like I have filed away the power fibres just above the ferrule.Just one last thought, I mounted this ferrule smack on the mid point ofthe rod, ie I made two sections of 48' long, this is the correct place tomount a ferrule isn't it. Just one other last thought, I heat treat the bamboo with a butane blowlamp before I start putting the taper into the sections. It can be as longas a month between this point and the rod being glued and then varnished.During this period the sections of bamboo and indeed the glued rod arestored in my garage ,(ambient temperature at this time of year beingabout5 centigrade in the garage, its miserable and damp in Yorkshire in thewinter) could the bamboo have absorbed too much moisture in this periodand should I play the blow lamp over the glued rod before I varnish it orwould this be detremental to the rod. Thanks for any help Mick Woodruff. Mick, I concur about your storing. You should be able to alleviate thehumidity conditions by building a box about 4" t 5" square (internal) with ahole in the bottom about 3 " in diam (and one in the top to "exhale") to siton a large inverted can (institutional size veggie can). Put a makeshiftbulb socket inside the can on a wooden base, cut a 2 to 3" hole in thebottom (now top) of the can and use a 100 watt bulb to keep thesections-in-progress warm. Just place a physical barrier at the bottom (Iused an aluminum cone mounted with 4 wire standoffs) of the box and/oruseMECHANICAL holders to hang the rod. Otherwise you'll see what happens tobamboo when it rests in contact with a heat source for a day or two (seemyposting of MY disaster)!Just find SOME way to provide a heat source to dry out that cane forthat period of time. Heat automatically reduces relative humidity-- a factIdiscovered when I thought a portable dehumidifier would allow me to workinmy basement shop during the summer. I turned it on and set it for 50%humidity. It soon raised the temp to about 95 degrees (in a normally 65degcellar) and---voila---50% humidity! The only loss was that I couldn'tstandto be in there to actually WORK!Good luck,Art from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 20 17:41:52 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures Dave your link is fine and your web page looks fine, your machining isgreat. Bret has had trouble in the past getting to my page also, ibeleive aol is sporadically giving him a problem. jerry from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 20 17:52:08 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures RO>Dave your link is fine and your web page looks fine, your machining isRO>great. Bret has had trouble in the past getting to my page also, iRO>beleive aol is sporadically giving him a problem. RO>jerry I think AOL has some special "firewalls" that might be the problem. Theyget spammed so much - besides looking at the web via AOL is painfullyslow. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.comcanerods@aol.com from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Fri Feb 20 18:11:22 1998 mailfep3-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 (GMT) Subject: Re: Glue type="54455854"; His suggestion was that the ratio on the canwas for material that is more porous than cane and that, instead of 2to 1 Art:Hoagy C. in Garrison's book "A Master's Guide ..." recommends a 4 to 1-- Like you, I've never had a problem with the 4 to 1 ratio. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Feb 20 19:13:48 1998 8.7/8.7) idUAA28544 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 20:11:44 - Subject: Custom Tackle Bill,Haven't received my '98 issue of Custom Tackle Supply either anddon't have last year's issue on the bench. If I remember, they'relocated in Shelbyville TN. All we need now is a phone # or a streetaddress, right?Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm From: fiveside@net-gate.com (Bill Fink) Subject: Info?To the List,Can anyone help me with the address or phone number of Custom TackleSupply, somewhere in Tennesee or thereabouts? I've been trying to gettheir catalog all winter. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Feb 20 19:34:36 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures In a message dated 98-02-20 18:47:52 EST, you write: Jerry - Also have the aol blues. Can you supply a link?Regards,RTyree from dickay@alltel.net Fri Feb 20 19:37:19 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA14321 0600 Subject: Re: Pictures Dave,Nice looking binder and forms. We'll need to see pictures and plans of thereel when finished also. Thanks for sharing Dick(Still working on my forms and other tools) Fuhrman. from dickay@alltel.net Fri Feb 20 19:37:20 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAB14321 0600 Subject: Re: planes John,The Stanley number for the 9 1/2 is actually 12-920. Older models willhave 12-020 stamped on them on the side. The 9 in 12-920 has somethingtodo with Stanley getting ISO-9000 certification. A lot of companies areworking on getting a that now days. It creates a lot of paperwork andconfusion. I went through searching for the 9 1/2 and got blank stareshardware store personnel until I got hold of a catalog and studied it. Also talking to Wayne Cattanach helped to straighten it out. I found a small neighborhood hardware store that ordered it for me. Noneof the big chains in this area (Western Arkansas) had it. He also gave mea very good price on it. Better than what I later found in a BuildersSquare. Good Luck Dick Fuhrman from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri Feb 20 19:40:39 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA25254; Fri, 20 Feb 199820:40:05 Subject: Re: Pictures At 05:40 PM 2/20/98 -0500, Jerry Foster wrote:Dave your link is fine and your web page looks fine, your machining isgreat. Bret has had trouble in the past getting to my page also, ibeleive aol is sporadically giving him a problem. jerry Ditto on all the above! Do you have the plans and specs for the binder.Looks better than the traditional Garrison. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 20 19:41:51 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA12714 for Subject: Re: Glue At 07:11 PM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote:His suggestion was that the ratio on the canwas for material that is more porous than cane and that, instead of 2to 1 Art:Hoagy C. in Garrison's book "A Master's Guide ..." recommends a 4 to 1-- Like you, I've never had a problem with the 4 to 1 ratio. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods Joe,Thanks. I read that book cover to cover and spoke numerous timeswith Hoagy (albeit not specifically about gluing) and don't know HOW Imadesuch a stupid and costly mistake on such an easily avoidable point. Hoagytold me there were some errata he wished to correct in the new edition (itwas still quite awhile away at that time) including the suggested threadsizes (which were reversed by size-designation in the first ed). I'veassumed that that info was to be put in the new ed and that I haddiscoveredit all-on-my-own for all these years!!!!!What a putz! I just went to theoriginal and found it on page 88, big as life.(And I have the newer ed too,just haven't reread it with full attention)I don't know if you've ever had any direct contact with Hoagy buthe's one of the nicest guys you'll ever want to meet. He told me that I was85% to where I COULD be when I was building back in the first couple ofyears the book was out. NOW I'm going back for the other 15%! I just hope Ifind one of the new "friction-reduced" planing methods pans out for me soIcan keep at it for more that the 20 rods I put "out thre" the first time. I'll be talking to you,Art from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 20 19:57:34 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures Richard, all, for the last time, this time AOL IS NOT TCP/IP, HTML COMPLIANT, IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS GETTING TOANYREAL SITE ON THE INTERNET AND DON'T HAVE A COMPELLING REASON TO BEONAOL, SIGN UP WITH A REAL ISP. I YOU CAN'T SEE A WAY TO DO THAT,PLEASECALL AOL AND COMPLAIN !! It's OK to complain here also it's just wereally can't help with aol in the way.. Richard, on a quieter note. the link as dave posted it is fine, there isno other way to get there,all I can suggest is try again later..sorry Regards Jerry from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Feb 20 20:01:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Disaster Part 2 Art ,Try an air conditioner with the dehumidifier-works for me in muggy Va.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Feb 20 20:03:35 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 Mick,A couple of things. Not having a lathe I,too, hand sand the ferrulestations. My ferrule stations are set by the slide length of the maleferrule-I also use super z's-no stepdown. If your cane has minimal power fibers(sp.-colonial type) and you have filed quite a bit off that may be yourtrouble. On the other hand ,considering the Yorkshire humidity I wouldsuggesta drying cabinet-just an enclosure heated with a light bulb-use a simpleoutdoor thermometer(or indoor ) add 1/2 the slide length to the tip section-that way the ferruled sections areequal length when I finish.Regards,Hank. from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 20 20:13:01 1998 Subject: page Richard excuse me, that really wasn't aimed at you, aol just gets the best of me from time to time. the I is an IF Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 20 20:30:36 1998 Subject: Re: page Richard if you can get to my page i listed dave's page under the rodmakers page,you might try to get there from there. Jerry from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 20 20:43:26 1998 Subject: glue Steve;I used reagent grade ammonium chloride from the Science Fair in Newarl,Delaware, phone # 302-453-1817. It took ages to get and the minimumorderwas about $40 for a 2or 3 lifetime supply. If you want I will share someofmine , email me off list with you're mailing address and we'll worksomething outJohn Channer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Feb 20 21:03:15 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Pictures Jerry and Dave,I am in the process of gettting another internet provider other than AOL.Just with my busy schedule with my business and employees I haven't hadthetime to do it. Also I have complained to AOHELL about their lousy serviceandhave told them my intentions about dumping them.Bret from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 20 21:04:58 1998 Subject: plane blades Art;Yes, it is tape, as in with sticky on the back. It doesn't really wear outas much as it eventually gets torn up. The residue is pretty easy to getoff, what doesn't come off with the tape is easily removed with a thumbnail or laquer thinner. I thought about the brass shim idea, but the shimstock they had at the hardware store was flimsier than my tape and thenyouhave epoxy or crazy glue to clean off. The tape is around 3/1000's thick ,but I don't compensate completely with my form setting, I leave myselfroomto scrape to final dimension with the original blade for my 9 1/2. I'mstill saving pennies for a L-N scraper.These are all small-town, poorman'ssolutions to the various problems that arise, I know, but I'm on a ratherlimited rodmaking budget.After 24.5 years I'm mostly immune to the Look,but not totally.Lets not start up that thread again,O.K.?Good luck fishing!I hope it doesn't snow here Sunday so I can go down tothe San Juan.Its snowed the last 2 Sundays and I'm going thru rainbowwithdrawal at the moment, I need to catch a fish soon!!!John ChannerDurango, Co. from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 20 21:04:58 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA19260 for Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 At 08:59 PM 2/20/98 EST, you wrote:Art ,Try an air conditioner with the dehumidifier-works for me in muggy Va.Hank. Hank,Thanks for the advice, but the only opening in the 10" thick concrete wallof the basement is a horizontal casement about 12-14" high by 24" wide.I'venever seen a conditioner that'll ft an opening that size. Except for the"remote" style where the unit is somewhere outside and the cooling coil isin the room. This "workshop" is a HOBBY room for me and I can't justifyeven$250 let alone the $1000 or more for that kind of a deal. When I put in mynew furnace however, you can bet your sweet patootie that there'll bemention of an outlet from the central A/C I plan on installing WITH thefurnace.....Art from channer@frontier.net Fri Feb 20 21:06:42 1998 Subject: plane blades Dave;OUCH!John Channer from d_price@global2000.net Fri Feb 20 21:15:37 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA23888 for; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:15:34 -0500 Subject: Re: page Jerry Foster wrote: Richard if you can get to my page i listed dave's page under the rodmakers page,you might try to get there from there. Jerry God, I guess I should work on getting some real content on my page...Thanks for the effort I just hope I can live up to your hyp!!!!.Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Fri Feb 20 21:34:00 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA24528 for; Fri, 20 Feb 1998 22:33:57 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Jerry and Dave,I am in the process of gettting another internet provider other than AOL.Just with my busy schedule with my business and employees I haven'thad thetime to do it. Also I have complained to AOHELL about their lousy serviceandhave told them my intentions about dumping them.Bret Interesting, I've had friends look at it(as simple a p as it is)and hadno problem on aol......Thanks jerry to link a page that dosn't haveanything on it yet but I will try in the near future to not let youdown....I've enjoyed so much your page and the work that goes into itand all the great links that you have.....It is done in such a way thatmakes it easy to get where you want to go and learn, and so much isthere from everybody on the list and all the pages it makes Bamboo rodsa reality for anybody....There is truly a lot of talent within theselinks and pages it's far beyond any thing Garrison or Young or Powellever emagined and will continue for some time to come(Thanks to all,everybody has a lot to contribute)I'm not good with names all of thelisters and listers pages have been great help, I'm shure that I'velearned something from all of them...Dave Price ( I should learn how to spell) from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 20 21:39:28 1998 Subject: Re: Nickel Silver Suppliers Michael,I carry 18% N/S tubing and 12% N/S bar stock. If you wouldlike me to send you info, send me your mailing address. Also, you can get 18% N/S sheet from Brownells. Call 515-623-5401 and request acatalog.Also try Sheffields Knife Supply at 904-775-6453 for N/S sheet. Dave LeClair from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 20 21:48:11 1998 Subject: Re: page Dave you don't have to build nice web pages, make nice rods. They'llappreciate it more around here :-) jerry from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 20 22:12:44 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA23577 for Subject: Re: plane blades At 06:53 PM 2/20/98, you wrote:Art;Yes, it is tape, as in with sticky on the back. It doesn't really wear outas much as it eventually gets torn up. The residue is pretty easy to getoff, what doesn't come off with the tape is easily removed with a thumbnail or laquer thinner. I thought about the brass shim idea, but the shimstock they had at the hardware store was flimsier than my tape and thenyouhave epoxy or crazy glue to clean off. The tape is around 3/1000's thick ,but I don't compensate completely with my form setting, I leave myselfroomto scrape to final dimension with the original blade for my 9 1/2. I'mstill saving pennies for a L-N scraper.These are all small- town, poorman'ssolutions to the various problems that arise, I know, but I'm on a ratherlimited rodmaking budget.After 24.5 years I'm mostly immune to theLook,but not totally.Lets not start up that thread again,O.K.?Good luck fishing!I hope it doesn't snow here Sunday so I can go down tothe San Juan.Its snowed the last 2 Sundays and I'm going thru rainbowwithdrawal at the moment, I need to catch a fish soon!!!John ChannerDurango, Co. John,It sounds like we're both operating on the same shoestring. I wish you luckon the San Juan. My fishing was in the rain today (I left sunny StatenIsland and drove INTO showers in PA -- waddyagonnado?), but I got somefishso it wasn't a blowout.Later,Art from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Feb 20 22:20:26 1998 Subject: Re: Info? Bill,Custom Tackle Supply is : phone- 615-684-6164Fax-- 615-684- 1755Address: 2559 Hwy.41A SouthShelbyville, TN 37160 Dave LeClair from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 20 22:24:17 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures RO>Jerry and Dave,RO>I am in the process of gettting another internet provider other thanAOL.RO>Just with my busy schedule with my business and employees I haven'thad theRO>time to do it. Also I have complained to AOHELL about their lousyservice anRO>have told them my intentions about dumping them.RO>Bret Bret, You can keep AOL - if you like some feature(s) -they have a $9.95/mtrate if you link into them with TCP/IP from a ISP. I do that. Costs me~$20 for the ISP and ~$10 for my AOL account. I almost never use AOL for web use. Don B. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Feb 20 22:46:19 1998 Subject: Re: page In a message dated 98-02-20 21:14:54 EST, you write: No problem Jerry. What is your impressions concerning AT & T as aprovider?Or, who IS good? Off list ok if you prefer. Best Regards,Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Feb 20 22:46:31 1998 Subject: Re: plane blades In a message dated 98-02-20 22:06:24 EST, you write: Art and John: andTools, 800-872-6500 in 6" x 12" sheets, .001, .0015, then .002 thru .012at.001 increments. Think Enco sells it in 1/2" x 12" strips, also in the abovethicknesses, but cannot confirm (catalog loaned out). Regards,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Feb 20 22:47:08 1998 Subject: Re: page In a message dated 98-02-20 21:33:59 EST, you write: Oh - oh. My mistake. Had checked there, but evidently did not recognize it.Thanks,RT from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Feb 20 23:06:41 1998 ix6.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Custom Tackle Custom Tackle Supply2559 Hwy. 41A S.Shelbyville TN 37160(615)684-6164 At 08:11 PM 2/20/98 -0500, you wrote:Bill,Haven't received my '98 issue of Custom Tackle Supply either anddon't have last year's issue on the bench. If I remember, they'relocated in Shelbyville TN. All we need now is a phone # or a streetaddress, right?Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm From: fiveside@net-gate.com (Bill Fink) Subject: Info?To the List,Can anyone help me with the address or phone number of Custom TackleSupply, somewhere in Tennesee or thereabouts? I've been trying to gettheir catalog all winter. from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 20 23:26:36 1998 Subject: Re: page Richard ATT is a typical provider, check to make sure they provide free space ftp account) It may not be important now but you might just want to posta picture or something like that in the future, you wold feel shortchanged then if you can't...also make sure they are free within a largelocal calling area. maybe home and work. your local telehone providermay have a reliable service also. some of my friends are useing internetamerica ( 1-800- beageek ) and are happy with their service. you can alsoaddress the isp homepages pages directly like http://www.att.net/ or anyothers you would like to try (my local provider is http://www.gte.net they offer on their homepage although now they are pretty much the same. don't pay over $20. and that should be for unlimited usage, no hourlycharges ever hope this helps a little Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 20 23:28:15 1998 Subject: Re: page oops sorry gang that slipped through, was suposed to go to Richard privately jer from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 21 01:19:43 1998 Subject: glue Art;The formula for use of Am Chl. is dissolve 1 gram in 10cc of water andmixwith 100 grams resin. I mixed up 10 gams/100 cc water and I use 2ccwith 20grams of resin at a time. I'm sure it has better gap filling property withthe powder catalyst that comes with it, but the powder will also give youthicker glue that has a shorter working time. As I said, I was havingtrouble with my rod joints being thicker than they should have been and Iknew it wasn't from the way they were planed.The Am Cl/water mix putmeright where I should be and it was easier to work with. I don't seem to bevery good at straitening so I'm going to try Epon, my Urac has expired andI have to buy more glue anyway. Nothing against Urac so far, my first rod Ihave used hard for over a year and have had no glue related problems atall. Unless you count the 3 times I've had to re-mount ferrules glued withDevcon. I now use the epoxy in the Accraglas bedding kit from Brownells,which so far seems to work very well. Brownells says if you don't use therelease agent when you bed a gunstock with it that it will take an axe toseparate the stock from the barrel, so I guess it should hold ferrules.I don't have the bottle of Am Cl. in the house right now, but I do have apretty big bottle of it and would be glad to part with some, if you wantany, email me off list and we'll work out details. Same goes for anyoneelse that may be interested. I want to keep some in case I decide I wouldrather use Urac than Epon, but I still have much more than I will use forages to come.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 21 01:37:49 1998 Subject: plane blades Richard;Have you used this steel shim stock on your planes?, if so, does it hold upand what glue do you use and what thickness shim? At this point, I wouldlike to have my plane milled, but there is no one in Durango that I wouldtrust to do it without ruining my one and only plane that I had to mailorder and wait 2 months to get. I am keeping my eyes on the flea marketsand antique/junk shops for another one, but I'm too much into instantgratification to order one at present, also have to pay down the creditcard balance a few hundred bucks first. I'm afraid I'm spoiled from myformer life in the Chicago area, I could take a short detour on my wayhome from work and walk in off the street and buy almost anything in the worldsomewhere in the Chicago area. We moved out here to Durango 3 years agoandI don't regret it for an instant and will never let the moutains fade fromview in my rear view mirror again, but the catch is that you can't get awhole lot past the basic necessities without ordering it. Heck, the lumberyards are as likely to be out of 16 penny nails and 8' 2x4's as to havethem in stock. Thanks for the info.John{ living the frontier life}Channer from dickay@alltel.net Sat Feb 21 06:15:39 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA9183 0600 Subject: Re: page Don't worry about if Jerry. Good advice to all us Internet newbies. I'mjust cheap or I might be on aol. alltel.net is a celluar phone provider inmy area and they have a $16.95/mo rate if you have a cell phone withthem. Also at Christmas they had a special rate of $29.95 for three months. Ifigured that was less costly than 50 hours free with aol. the 50 hrs wouldbe gone quick with everyone wanting to play on the net. Thanks for the good advise. Dick Fuhrman ----------From: Jerry Foster Subject: Re: pageDate: Friday, February 20, 1998 10:27 PM oops sorry gang that slipped through, was suposed to go to Richard privately jer from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 21 07:03:50 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA27573 for Subject: Re: plane blades At 11:26 PM 2/20/98, you wrote:Richard;Have you used this steel shim stock on your planes?, if so, does it hold upand what glue do you use and what thickness shim? At this point, I wouldlike to have my plane milled, but there is no one in Durango that I wouldtrust to do it without ruining my one and only plane that I had to mailorder and wait 2 months to get. I am keeping my eyes on the flea marketsand antique/junk shops for another one, but I'm too much into instantgratification to order one at present, also have to pay down the creditcard balance a few hundred bucks first. I'm afraid I'm spoiled from myformer life in the Chicago area, I could take a short detour on my wayhome from work and walk in off the street and buy almost anything in theworldsomewhere in the Chicago area. We moved out here to Durango 3 years agoandI don't regret it for an instant and will never let the moutains fade fromview in my rear view mirror again, but the catch is that you can't get awhole lot past the basic necessities without ordering it. Heck, the lumberyards are as likely to be out of 16 penny nails and 8' 2x4's as to havethem in stock. Thanks for the info.John{ living the frontier life}Channer John,Why MILLing? If it's to get a recess groove then I can see wherethat's preferable to hours of handwork, but if you just want to flatten ityou can use increasingly fine grits of wet-or-dry sandpaper and a surfaceofa tablesaw (or other "topped" tool) to do a fine job! Just mark the bottomwith magic marker and rub on the paper (affixed to the sawtop) until allthecurrent scratches have obliterated the previous set ( I began with 100 andwent down to 1000). The finer grits are available only at body-and- fenderjoints, but I don't care how far you are from civilization, there's always aneed for THEM---unfortunately! (I hope I'm not again carrying coals toNewcastle with this info, but it's tough to know how much experience theother guys in a group like this have until you've been rebuffed once ortwice for offering info on how to breathe)Art from destinycon@mindspring.com Sat Feb 21 08:21:02 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures Nicely Put! At 10:33 PM 2/20/98 -0800, you wrote:Grhghlndr@aol.com wrote: Jerry and Dave,I am in the process of gettting another internet provider other than AOL.Just with my busy schedule with my business and employees I haven'thad thetime to do it. Also I have complained to AOHELL about their lousyservice andhave told them my intentions about dumping them.Bret Interesting, I've had friends look at it(as simple a p as it is)and hadno problem on aol......Thanks jerry to link a page that dosn't haveanything on it yet but I will try in the near future to not let youdown....I've enjoyed so much your page and the work that goes into itand all the great links that you have.....It is done in such a way thatmakes it easy to get where you want to go and learn, and so much isthere from everybody on the list and all the pages it makes Bamboo rodsa reality for anybody....There is truly a lot of talent within theselinks and pages it's far beyond any thing Garrison or Young or Powellever emagined and will continue for some time to come(Thanks to all,everybody has a lot to contribute)I'm not good with names all of thelisters and listers pages have been great help, I'm shure that I'velearned something from all of them...Dave Price ( I should learn how to spell) from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 21 09:04:32 1998 Subject: plane blades Art;It never hurts to hear something you already know,if nothing else, theconfirmation is worth something. I was talking about milling a slot,however. I think I've got the thing pretty flat now. I used pretty much thesame method, but didn't go as fine. The finest sandpaper available to me inthis town is 15 micron sanding disks that my boss gets for polishingAvonite countertops. I can't remember what the grit eqivalent is, but itssomewhat finer than 600 wet/dry. I tried all the hardware, lumber andautoparts stores around, 600 was the best I could do, works O K i guess. *0micron seems to hold up better than wet/dry for sanding enamel off anddoesn't leave bad scratches.I think the thing about the micron paper isthat the grit size is more uniform and it has a plastic kind of backingthat the grit is better bonded to.The sizing scale is confusing, tho, thesmaller the number, the finer the grit. Nothing seems to stay sharp verylong when you use it on bamboo, I think i probably spend more money onsandpaper than I do on aall other consumable supplies put together and Iscrape most of the enamel off first.Back to milling, as soon as another plane fits the budget I'm going tofind someplace to send one to get a slot milled in it, I just don;t want tobe without one while I'm waiting. In the mean time the tape works and I'vealready got a pretty good size roll of it.Good fishing and planing to you,I've got to go make a buck today, hopefully can fish tomorrow.John Channer from dickay@alltel.net Sat Feb 21 10:02:50 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA11698 0600 Subject: Re: plane blades John,Why not sand a groove into the sole of your plane if that's what you want. If you have a table saw, and since your a carpenter I assume you do. Cut astrip of hardwood that you can clamp into one of the slots in the table. The strip needs to protrude above the table 1/4" to 3/8". Now glue a 1"strip of 100 grit sandpaper to the table about 3/8" from the hardwoodstripand parallel to it. Back the plane blade out of the way and run the planeover the sandpaper using the hardwood strip as a guide. You can create aslot in the bottom of the plane this way without the cost of a machineshop. You could even use your stainless steel tape with sandpaper glued ontop of it to get a deeper groove, or use finer grit sandpaper to polish thegroove. Just a thought. Dick (Using my saw table top to flatten my sole) Fuhrman. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Feb 21 10:25:14 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: plane blades John, You can put the groove in the sole of your plane without access to amill.I followed a combination of the instructions on Frank Neuneman's page,andBruce Conner's FAQ. Links to both are on Jerry''s page. It really isn't a bigdeal. Just takes lots of elbow grease. Then again, if the tape works foryou,stick with it. There is something to be said for finding something thatworks,regardless of how it looks.Harry Boyd john channer wrote: Art;It never hurts to hear something you already know,if nothing else, theconfirmation is worth something. I was talking about milling a slot,however. I think I've got the thing pretty flat now. I used pretty much thesame method, but didn't go as fine. The finest sandpaper available to meinthis town is 15 micron sanding disks that my boss gets for polishingAvonite countertops. I can't remember what the grit eqivalent is, but itssomewhat finer than 600 wet/dry. I tried all the hardware, lumber andautoparts stores around, 600 was the best I could do, works O K i guess. *0micron seems to hold up better than wet/dry for sanding enamel off anddoesn't leave bad scratches.I think the thing about the micron paper isthat the grit size is more uniform and it has a plastic kind of backingthat the grit is better bonded to.The sizing scale is confusing, tho, thesmaller the number, the finer the grit. Nothing seems to stay sharp verylong when you use it on bamboo, I think i probably spend more money onsandpaper than I do on aall other consumable supplies put together and Iscrape most of the enamel off first.Back to milling, as soon as another plane fits the budget I'm going tofind someplace to send one to get a slot milled in it, I just don;t want tobe without one while I'm waiting. In the mean time the tape works andI'vealready got a pretty good size roll of it.Good fishing and planing to you,I've got to go make a buck today, hopefully can fish tomorrow.John Channer from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Feb 21 10:42:02 1998 Subject: Re: glue In a message dated 98-02-21 02:22:02 EST, you write: This is truly great stuff. I use the Acra-glas gel for edge-binding on arch-top guitars. It stays in the binding channel no matter how many times youhave to rotate and flip the work. I haven't tried the axe test, but it does seem to hold pretty well. Davy from d_price@global2000.net Sat Feb 21 10:58:33 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id LAA15070 for; Sat, 21 Feb 1998 11:58:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures BIG CLIPDave,What the HELL do you do with your life that you have that amount ofPURPLEHEART "laying around". Are you a GD lumber yard???? I've neverseenthe stuff except in pictures of "art furniture" and I do a fair amount ofbusiness with a hard wood dealer for my cabinetmaking. "Laying around"?Aswe Noo Yawkahs are supposed to say: "Waddya-waddya?Art Art take a drive up to the Northway(87) and get off at exit 12, go threemiles west and turn into Curtis lumber, there they have 200 to 300bd.ft.of purpleheart....some of it is slabs(8/4) and lots of other nice hardwoods......Or if you realy wont to get exited take a ride to SugarloafP.A. and look at the 8' + dia.cocobola logs.....when they came intoNewark N.J. the log had to be cut in half to get it onto tracktor-trailers......I guess I better put my Cuban Mahogany into avault somewhere!!!!:-)...Dave Price from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 21 11:22:31 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA08149 for Subject: Re: Pictures At 11:58 AM 2/21/98 -0800, you wrote:BIG CLIPDave,What the HELL do you do with your life that you have that amount ofPURPLEHEART "laying around". Are you a GD lumber yard???? I've neverseenthe stuff except in pictures of "art furniture" and I do a fair amount ofbusiness with a hard wood dealer for my cabinetmaking. "Layingaround"? Aswe Noo Yawkahs are supposed to say: "Waddya-waddya?Art Art take a drive up to the Northway(87) and get off at exit 12, go threemiles west and turn into Curtis lumber, there they have 200 to 300bd.ft.of purpleheart....some of it is slabs(8/4) and lots of other nice hardwoods......Or if you realy wont to get exited take a ride to SugarloafP.A. and look at the 8' + dia.cocobola logs.....when they came intoNewark N.J. the log had to be cut in half to get it onto tracktor-trailers......I guess I better put my Cuban Mahogany into avault somewhere!!!!:-)...Dave Price Dave,You're incredible. What do you do for a living, catalog shipments of exotichardwoods? I deal very happily with Interstate Hardwoods in Elizabeth NJsoI won't need to be tracking those huge slabs of pseudo-gold anytime soon(unless I take up building those artsy type slab-desks that they show inFine Woodworking). But thanks for the lead....you never know....and as forthat mahogany, what'd you say your address was?Art from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Feb 21 11:30:01 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Harry Boyd wrote: Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Been there and didthat! Great catfish fry! George B, from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Feb 21 12:03:53 1998 Subject: Re: plane blades In a message dated 2/21/98 8:27:26 AM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: You can put the groove in the sole of your plane without access to amill.I followed a combination of the instructions on Frank Neuneman's page,andBruce Conner's FAQ. Links to both are on Jerry''s page. It really isn't abigdeal. Just takes lots of elbow grease. -snipped-Harry Boyd I agree with Harry. I grooved all my planes in an afternoon. All youneed is two pieces of flat board, a couple of c-clamps, a few sheetsof wet dry sandpaper and a roll of double stick tape. It doesn't eventake that long if you start off with 180 or 220 grit and go down to 400.How to do it was in "The Planing Form" a couple of years ago. The grooving is permanent. No having to stop and reshim, or going out to buy shim stock, etc. Darryl HayashidaP.S. Wax the sole of your plane - use carnuba wax. You will beamazed. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Feb 21 12:48:09 1998 Subject: Re: page In a message dated 98-02-21 00:32:54 EST, you write: Thanks Jerry. Food for thought for sure.Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Feb 21 12:48:14 1998 Subject: Re: glue In a message dated 98-02-21 02:22:02 EST, you write: John and Art: For what it is worth, you can cut the amoniumchloride/watermix to as low as 5% (maybe lower) with good results and get longerworkingtime. Used that strategy for hollow building and it worked.Regards,Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Feb 21 12:48:17 1998 Subject: Re: plane blades In a message dated 98-02-21 02:41:00 EST, you write: **Know what you mean. When we moved "out" some 25 yrs ago, friendsaccused usof running away from reality. Actually, we were running to it. But, its agood drive to anywhere, even for a loaf of bread. On the other hand, its ashort walk to the creek.** Regards,Richard from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sat Feb 21 14:19:56 1998 Subject: Disaster.3 OAA20551 Thanks for all the help, I have passed the details of the heater cabinet tomy father (who is retired), it will give him something to do during thewinter.I am going put this rod section into the cabinet when it is finished andthen re- mount the ferrule on the shortened section and see how it goes.This may take some time as I have just become the proud father of a 7 lb 5oz boy, who my wife says we should call fishing rod or bamboo, so that Ishow as much interest in him as I do trying to make fishing rods. Womencanbe so mis-understanding sometimes carn't they.Any way thanks again for the help. Mick. Woodruff from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Feb 21 14:21:19 1998 Subject: Lathes To all,I have made some inquiries around SB about the availability of used lathespeople said they would get back to me as to what is readily available. Willpost findings next week.Bret from rclarke@eou.edu Sat Feb 21 14:37:32 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster.3 Congrats on your son Mick. My 17 month old daughter is my biggest excuse working in the garage. Enjoy! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: MICK WOODRUFF Subject: Disaster.3Date: Saturday, February 21, 1998 12:18 PM Thanks for all the help, I have passed the details of the heater cabinettomy father (who is retired), it will give him something to do during thewinter.I am going put this rod section into the cabinet when it is finished andthen re- mount the ferrule on the shortened section and see how it goes.This may take some time as I have just become the proud father of a 7 lb5oz boy, who my wife says we should call fishing rod or bamboo, so that Ishow as much interest in him as I do trying to make fishing rods. Womencanbe so mis- understanding sometimes carn't they.Any way thanks again for the help. Mick. Woodruff from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Feb 21 14:43:44 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster.3 Dear Mick Heartiest congratulations on your new son! Davy from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 21 16:32:02 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster.3 Mick,Congratulations!Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Feb 21 16:32:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Disaster Part 2 Art,Good luck with the new furnace.Hank. from dadl@mailcity.com Sat Feb 21 16:50:15 1998 0800 Subject: glace cotton Guys I finally have my binder put together and am having some troublefindingtheglace thread sizes Wayne recommends in his book. The only glace finishstuff atthelocal fabric store was polyester core and very thin-- like regular sewingthread.Any one have a mailorder source for the bigger sizes or have a stash theycouldsellme? And is polyester core okay? It seems like the real small stuff I got would be okay for tips though (itdoesn'thave a size listed on the spool). Also how about a mail order source for thread tensioners? ThanksDon D. Get your FREE, private e-mailaccount at http://www.mailcity.com from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Feb 21 17:05:03 1998 Subject: Silk line?? I just bought 4 oldish reels ( a big ole' Medalist, an Ocean City, aPflueger 'Gem" and a south bend that looks like a St George) One lineis very obviously silk, two of the others are obviously 333's and thefourth has me scratchin' my head. It is a nice golden color, extremelysupple, looks braided, but has a plastic cover. Could this be silk?? Brian from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Feb 21 17:08:12 1998 0700 Subject: Re: glace cotton At 14:48 21/02/98 -0700, you wrote:Guys I finally have my binder put together and am having some troublefinding theglace thread sizes Wayne recommends in his book. The only glace finishstuff at thelocal fabric store was polyester core and very thin--like regular sewingthread.Any one have a mailorder source for the bigger sizes or have a stash theycould sellme? And is polyester core okay? It seems like the real small stuff I got would be okay for tips though (itdoesn'thave a size listed on the spool). Also how about a mail order source for thread tensioners? ThanksDon D. Don, Have used macrame cotton for a number of years as a binding thread/cord.Works good. Cheap and available. Don from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Feb 21 17:35:53 1998 Subject: Re: glace cotton Since I flame my culms and don't need to heat treatmy splines, I use monofilament fishing line. The slightstretch and the slip you get putting it on evens outthe pressure all the way down the blank. No chanceof a tighter or looser section, and the line usuallyjust zips off after the glue has dried. No filing orsanding off the thread - just the glue lines leftbehind. !0 lb. test for but sections, 6 or 4 lb.test for tip sections, depending on size of thetip section. Don't use monofiliment if you are going to putthe section in an oven. It will melt. Darryl Hayashida from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 21 17:46:21 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29640 for Subject: Re: Disaster.3 At 03:18 PM 2/21/98 -0500, you wrote:Thanks for all the help, I have passed the details of the heater cabinet tomy father (who is retired), it will give him something to do during thewinter.I am going put this rod section into the cabinet when it is finished andthen re-mount the ferrule on the shortened section and see how it goes.This may take some time as I have just become the proud father of a 7 lb5oz boy, who my wife says we should call fishing rod or bamboo, so that Ishow as much interest in him as I do trying to make fishing rods. Womencanbe so mis-understanding sometimes carn't they.Any way thanks again for the help. Mick. Woodruff Mick,He sounds like a healthy size -- a keeper -- but I wouldn't use EXACTLYthose words in front of my wife if I were you. Congratulations! If you tieflies you'll find he adds a whole new dimension to that activity ( We hadtwins 21 years ago, whew!), unless you tie standing up. As soon as he's oldenough (your call) get him out there USING those hunks of the beautifulgrass so he understands why we try to take such good care of nature (andleave it alone when needs be). Best to all of you,Art from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 21 17:54:18 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA29923 for Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 At 05:31 PM 2/21/98 EST, you wrote:Art,Good luck with the new furnace.Hank. Hank,Thanks,I'm still at the "amassing information stage" right now, but the old one ismaking those "you'd better not ignore me for too long" noises. It's beensitting down there for nigh onto 40 years with never a whimper; I guess itneeds that big rest in the sky, eh? My immediate "furnace" concern is howtobest integrate those two hot-air-gun ovens that are on the web so I won'thave to go back to trying to find another pizzeria to bake my rods (the oldone's owner retired---the NERVE of some people). I'll let you know how Imake out with both. Right now I'm awaiting some info from Dick Fuhrmantohelp me decide on the make and model I'll buy (Thanks, Dick).Keep yer blades sharp,Art from rclarke@eou.edu Sat Feb 21 18:00:39 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 Art, I know the heat guns have their advantages, but I just built the ovenin Wayne's book, and it even works! My thanks to Wayne and to ThomasPenrose. I would recommend it. Not too hard to build. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2Date: Saturday, February 21, 1998 4:11 PM At 05:31 PM 2/21/98 EST, you wrote:Art,Good luck with the new furnace.Hank. Hank,Thanks,I'm still at the "amassing information stage" right now, but the old oneismaking those "you'd better not ignore me for too long" noises. It's beensitting down there for nigh onto 40 years with never a whimper; I guessitneeds that big rest in the sky, eh? My immediate "furnace" concern ishowtobest integrate those two hot-air-gun ovens that are on the web so Iwon'thave to go back to trying to find another pizzeria to bake my rods (theoldone's owner retired---the NERVE of some people). I'll let you know how Imake out with both. Right now I'm awaiting some info from Dick Fuhrmantohelp me decide on the make and model I'll buy (Thanks, Dick).Keep yer blades sharp,Art from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 21 18:25:57 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01426 for Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 At 03:59 PM 2/21/98 -0800, you wrote:Art, I know the heat guns have their advantages, but I just built the ovenin Wayne's book, and it even works! My thanks to Wayne and to ThomasPenrose. I would recommend it. Not too hard to build. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Robert,You're just the guy I've been looking to speak to. I've pretty much made upmy mind on the air-gun style (I HAVE the damn air-gun and the rest soundslike about $25) but I was helped along by my local appliance guy whosecheapest oven thermometer was 50 clams and who never heard of the micastripheat source Wayne recommends! The ones he was offering were going to behit-or-miss as to whether they'd put out enough heat and sounded like bigballoons to acquire. That helped me no end to decide to go with what Ialready half have! If you can refute my logic, I'm all ears.Art from cphisey@neca.com Sat Feb 21 19:21:14 1998 Subject: Re: glace cotton At 02:48 PM 2/21/98 -0700, you wrote:Guys I finally have my binder put together and am having some troublefinding theglace thread sizes Wayne recommends in his book. The only glace finishstuff at thelocal fabric store was polyester core and very thin--like regular sewingthread.Any one have a mailorder source for the bigger sizes or have a stash theycould sellme? And is polyester core okay? It seems like the real small stuff I got would be okay for tips though (itdoesn'thave a size listed on the spool). Also how about a mail order source for thread tensioners? ThanksDon D. Get your FREE, private e-mailaccount at http://www.mailcity.com Hi Don,Atlanta Thread & Supply Company 695 Red Oak Rd. Stockbridge,GA 30281Telephone 1-800-847-1001.They have Glace Cotton Thread in 16/4 and24/4.The16/4 is around $20 for 4800 yds(st#1245) and 24/4 is the same for6000yds(st#1254) three colors : white (code# 01) natural (#02) andblack(#03).Thisis from their 1995 catalog.The phone # is current.Hope this helps.Charlie Hisey P.S. Call them during East CoastBusiness hours 8-6 ,I believe. from DRinker370@aol.com Sat Feb 21 19:50:31 1998 Subject: Re: glace cotton Don, I just recieved thread tensioners from Dale Clements CustomTackle,444Schantz Rd. Allentown, PA 18104 (610) 395-5119 catalogue#54-03-00 price $14.66 per unit. They also sell a Metallic threadtensioning spool insert which may work with silk thread . I plan on tryingitin my wrapper if I ever finish building all of the tools for this bambooadventure. Graphite sure was easy. Dave from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 21 20:08:46 1998 Subject: plane blades Harry,Daryl,et al;Thanks for reminding me about the sandpaper and strait edge thing, assoonas I get another plane I'll try it.So many people recomending it can't bewrong.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 21 20:25:15 1998 Subject: reality Richard;When we moved outhere no one we knew actually accused us of runningaway from reality, but I could tell some of our friends thought that. I'mreminded of the old 60's expression "REALITY SUCKS" !John Channer from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Feb 21 20:59:23 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Disaster.3 Mick, I know this is heresy, and I stand open to all flames,,, but it could justbe that your wife is right. There are some things more important thanfishingand fly rods. To paraphrase Robert Traver, it's just that most of thosethingswhich are truly more important aren't as much fun. Maybe, just maybe,childrenare one of those things more important, though it is debatable. Childrenaredefinitely more fun, though. My daughter, who is 11 going on 21, went to adance last night. I could hardly wait to go pick her up. Enjoy these timeswhen they are small. They are truly the "best of times... the worst oftimes." And worth every sleepless minute!Harry Boyd MICK WOODRUFF wrote: Thanks for all the help, I have passed the details of the heater cabinet tomy father (who is retired), it will give him something to do during thewinter.I am going put this rod section into the cabinet when it is finished andthen re- mount the ferrule on the shortened section and see how it goes.This may take some time as I have just become the proud father of a 7 lb5oz boy, who my wife says we should call fishing rod or bamboo, so that Ishow as much interest in him as I do trying to make fishing rods. Womencanbe so mis- understanding sometimes carn't they.Any way thanks again for the help. Mick. Woodruff from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 21 21:19:20 1998 Subject: plane blades Steve;The drill press thing sounds like a lot less effort than sandpaper. Gotlots of good ideas from everyone, now all I need is to get a cheap fleamarket plane or 2 to practice on. About the swbell thing in the message I about that, but ifyou ever get this way, look me up.John Channer from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 21 21:40:34 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA12787 for Subject: Re: glace cotton At 08:49 PM 2/21/98 EST, you wrote:Don, I just recieved thread tensioners from Dale Clements CustomTackle,444Schantz Rd. Allentown, PA 18104 (610) 395-5119 catalogue#54-03-00 price $14.66 per unit. They also sell a Metallic threadtensioning spool insert which may work with silk thread . I plan ontrying itin my wrapper if I ever finish building all of the tools for this bambooadventure. Graphite sure was easy. Dave Dave,Yeah, but ANYBODY can do graphite! We're a buncha hoity toities. We do itthe old fashioned way---we screw it up! When you fish with that first rod,and it'll probably be a good one with all us mother hens watching over you,you're gonna feel SO great (not to mention pretty smug), you won'trememberANY of the times when you thought you were out of your mind for starting!Keep a-building,Art from jsmm@interaccess.com Sat Feb 21 21:49:51 1998 byneuman.interaccess.com (8.8.5/8.7.5) with ESMTP id VAA16248 for Subject: Re: Lathes I picked up a used SB cabinet lathe about 2 years ago and the wholesaler Ibought it from said that they are frequently snatched up by employees ofshops that are closing. He mentioned that he rarely comes across one, andwhen he does he doesn't keep them very long. Matt Makowski----------From: Grhghlndr@aol.com Subject: LathesDate: Saturday, February 21, 1998 2:20 PM To all,I have made some inquiries around SB about the availability of usedlathespeople said they would get back to me as to what is readily available.Willpost findings next week.Bret from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 21 21:52:56 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA13554 for Subject: Re: Disaster.3 At 08:58 PM 2/21/98 -0600, you wrote:Mick, I know this is heresy, and I stand open to all flames,,, but it could justbe that your wife is right. There are some things more important thanfishingand fly rods. To paraphrase Robert Traver, it's just that most of thosethingswhich are truly more important aren't as much fun. Maybe, just maybe,childrenare one of those things more important, though it is debatable. Childrenaredefinitely more fun, though. My daughter, who is 11 going on 21, went toadance last night. I could hardly wait to go pick her up. Enjoy these timeswhen they are small. They are truly the "best of times... the worst oftimes." And worth every sleepless minute!Harry Boyd Harry,No flames here. I'm the guy who wrote about the twins! I didn't mentionthatthey were girls though. Think about the trouble you could worry about ifyour daughter were TWO daughters---no, don't, you might not survive!Fortunately we "learned" on a boy-child 5 years their senior so we wereableto prioritize (God, I hate that word) their missteps and foibles and not gostark-raving mad! By the way, the twins were a surprise, during a naturalchildbirth. How'd you like to hear "Don't quit on us now kiddo, you've gotanother one in there" from the Ob-Gyn who predicted a "small baby" (Theywere 6 lbs 2 oz and 6 lbs 7 oz) I always maintained he read the chickenentrails that belonged to some other woman's pregnancy!Art from rhicks@d.umn.edu Sat Feb 21 22:31:22 1998 22:31:19 -0600 mail.d.umn.edu (8.8.6.Beta3/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA11049 for Subject: URAC Question 199813:47:39 EST I have a question about heat treating rod sections glued with URAC 185 forthose of you who use this glue. The URAC 185 resin can says you can dryitat 100 deg. F. Wayne Cattanach's book says that URAC can benefit fromheatsetting and that you can heat treat a rod section at 100-105 deg. F for 24hours. What is the upper temperature limit for URAC glue before it fails? Myovencan only regulate down to 125 deg. F. Can I safely heat set the URAC gluedsection at 125 or 150 deg F? Thanks for any help or ideas. Randall Hicks from rhicks@d.umn.edu Sat Feb 21 22:51:24 1998 22:51:22 -0600 mail.d.umn.edu (8.8.6.Beta3/8.8.3) with SMTP id WAA12015 for Subject: Re: glace cotton Feb1998 14:48:18 -0700 Don D., I got my glace cotton thread for binding rod sections from the sourcementioned in Wayne Cattanach's book (some people call this glazed cottonnot glace cotton). They had 24/4 for tips and 16/4 for butt sections. Ihad to buy a whole spool of each (maybe a 1000 yards on a spool for about$20/ea.). They shipped it fairly quickly. The address is: John K. Burch Co.40 Cherry S.W.Grand Rapids, MI 49507616-698-2800 Like you, I could only find a cotton wrapped polyester core thread locallyand was afraid of heat treating with the polyester core. I have been using Cortland braided mono Hi-Vis running line (braidedleadermaterial) that I bought in a flyfishing shop for the binding cord that theweight is suspended from on my Garrison style binder. I have a 100 ftroll of 30 lb test that cost about $9. It works very well because you caninsert one end into the other to make a knotless splice. No knot runningaround the binder pulleys and getting stuck on the rod! from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 22 04:25:02 1998 Subject: urac Randall;Igot an info page with the Urac I got from Nelsons and it gives atime/templist for using heated platens for heat setting laminations. I have followedthis table and heat set 6 rods at 200d for 4.5-5 minutes with no problems.I usually do this the next nite after glue up, just be sure to keep yourrods above 70 d until you heat set, I'm sure the horror stories that havebeen posted about Urac failures are either from allowing the blanks tobecome too cold too soon or from using old glue, it has a shelf life of 1year or less depending on storage temp. Hope this helpsJohn Channer from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Feb 22 07:07:34 1998 Subject: Re: glace cotton I used the Dual Duty plus, glace finish cotton made by COATS to wrapboth sections for heat treating. I had no ill effects. This wasrecommended by someone on the list. Is there any problem using this tobind during the gluing operation? If there is I will probably go with Sir Darryl's mono. I really don'twant to pop $40 for a lifetime supply of thread. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Feb 22 07:17:36 1998 Subject: To All: urac/straightening Igot an info page with the Urac I got from Nelsons and it gives atime/templist for using heated platens for heat setting laminations. I havefollowedthis table and heat set 6 rods at 200d for 4.5-5 minutes with noproblems. To All, First, I would like to know if anyone has used the method suggested byCarl O'connor (Sept/Oct '97 Planing Form) to straighten freshly gluedsections. Has anyone had success with this? I wonder if it would work with woodenforms, say covering the forms with paper to keep glue off. I was wondering if, or how it could work with urac? Still wondering, and wandering, in Independence, Steve from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 22 08:49:08 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster.3 Mick,Congrats on having a boy. Bret from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Feb 22 08:58:06 1998 Subject: Re: Silk line?? In a message dated 2/21/98 11:10:08 PM, you wrote: Brian - There were some braided nylon lines marketed for a little while. Isuspect that is what you have. from d_price@global2000.net Sun Feb 22 08:59:13 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id JAA11234 for; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 09:59:10 -0500 Subject: First Rod Yes it's true.....started my fist rod yesterday.......Met with a teacher from my high school days that is retired now(thanks to list-member JonParker)and he builds outstanding nodless rods.....even convinced me tobuild nodless on my first rod....He was a big help and offered to helpwith all the steps involved, got started at his shop gave me some caneand sent me on my way to do get the pieces ready for gluing the splices.It feels good to actually have the bamboo in my hands and working it.... I am starting to feel the connection with a fine natural material tocreate such fine a piece useable art!!!!!!!!!...Dave Price from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 22 08:59:15 1998 Subject: Re: glace cotton Don,Do you have an upholstery shop in you town or supply house? That is whereIfound mine.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Feb 22 09:12:22 1998 Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening steve,I was curious about that method too, I would recommend using waxedpaper fromyour wifes kitchen though so you don't have the paper to scrape off also. ifyou try it let us know how it works.Bret from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Feb 22 11:32:33 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 22Feb 1998 12:33:18 -0500 Subject: Re: glace cotton I use thread tensioners from Angler's Workshop. 360 225 3445. I use them for all the kits I sell. Take care. Oh, I bout thread from George Maurer 610 756 6385 a while back. I only use one size. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 22 11:45:49 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA25615 for Subject: Re: urac At 02:13 AM 2/22/98, you wrote:Randall;Igot an info page with the Urac I got from Nelsons and it gives atime/templist for using heated platens for heat setting laminations. I have followedthis table and heat set 6 rods at 200d for 4.5-5 minutes with noproblems.I usually do this the next nite after glue up, just be sure to keep yourrods above 70 d until you heat set, I'm sure the horror stories that havebeen posted about Urac failures are either from allowing the blanks tobecome too cold too soon or from using old glue, it has a shelf life of 1year or less depending on storage temp. Hope this helpsJohn Channer John, Will that spec sheet come with the glue automatically or will I have toask loooong time ago). BTW I get a catalog from Klingspor's with wet or drypapers available down to 1000 grit. I think you said you were havingtroublelocating finest grades. The catalog is free and they have a website athttp://www.sandingcatalog.com The paper is on pg 41 and about .50 a piece (They've got lots of other neatjunk for guys like us in there too. Some, I'm thinking of making myself!)Later,Art from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Feb 22 12:40:26 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id TAA00478 for; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 19:11:34 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening ----------From: Steve TrauthweinTo All, First, I would like to know if anyone has used the method suggested byCarl O'connor (Sept/Oct '97 Planing Form) to straighten freshly gluedsections. Has anyone had success with this? I wonder if it would work withwoodenforms, say covering the forms with paper to keep glue off. I was wondering if, or how it could work with urac? Still wondering, and wandering, in Independence, Steve Steve We're a few luckless rodbuilders, not subscribing to "The Planingform".Could You please describe said method to us. (My guess is placing thefreshly glued rod in a kind of planingform, putting a sandbag on top. Do Iwin 5 dollars?) regards Carsten from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Feb 22 13:16:41 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: urac If you guys are looking for sandpaper in fine , try your localWalmart.In the automotive section, Walmart carries the paper down to 2000 grit. Hopethat helps. If you can't find it, let me know, and I'll send you some bysnailmail to try.Harry Boyd fbcwin@fsbnet.com Art Port wrote: At 02:13 AM 2/22/98, you wrote:Randall;Igot an info page with the Urac I got from Nelsons and it gives atime/templist for using heated platens for heat setting laminations. I havefollowedthis table and heat set 6 rods at 200d for 4.5-5 minutes with noproblems.I usually do this the next nite after glue up, just be sure to keep yourrods above 70 d until you heat set, I'm sure the horror stories that havebeen posted about Urac failures are either from allowing the blanks tobecome too cold too soon or from using old glue, it has a shelf life of 1year or less depending on storage temp. Hope this helpsJohn Channer John,Will that spec sheet come with the glue automatically or will I have toask loooong time ago). BTW I get a catalog from Klingspor's with wet or drypapers available down to 1000 grit. I think you said you were havingtroublelocating finest grades. The catalog is free and they have a website athttp://www.sandingcatalog.com The paper is on pg 41 and about .50 a piece (They've got lots of otherneatjunk for guys like us in there too. Some, I'm thinking of making myself!)Later,Art from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Feb 22 13:23:08 1998 Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening Could You please describe said method to us. (My guess is placing thefreshly glued rod in a kind of planingform, putting a sandbag on top. Do Iwin 5 dollars?) regards Carsten, Placing rod in form that has been opened to original taper x 1.72 andplacing a 1" x 1/4" x rod length steel plate on top of the freshly gluedblank. Ron Barch, the editor of the planing form, seemed impressed withthe procedure. I have yet to glue my first blank, but I am trying to get all of thekinks worked out in my mind, no pun intended. This sounds like a neat explained by Carl, that the binding cord gives a cushion effect, thatallows everything to find an equilibrium. I don't think his explanationwas that awkward though. I wanted to see if anyone had tried this method. As I have alreadyordered urac 185, I was also curious as to wether or not I could usethis method with the urac and still meet the heat requirements (withoutheating my basement to 100 degrees). Which if I caught the wife on theright day, would be ok with her. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 22 13:34:00 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA00970 for Subject: Re: glace cotton All,This may be obsolete since I haven't needed any since I bought mine (asyousay, it's a lifetime supply) in '79, but there was a United Thread MillsCorp. at 146-8 Greene St, NY, NY, 10012 who sold me 10/3, 16/4, and 12/4for$6 a pop. The quantities seemed to vary; the 12/4 was 3600 yds and the16/4was 4800 yds, there was no stated length on the 10/3 (?).A lot hashappenedto the old buckeroo in those almost 20 years but they may be cheaper thanthe other sources, being in--as it were-- the "Big City". They were at212-966-4440. S'long,Art from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Feb 22 14:04:06 1998 Subject: Re: glace cotton In a message dated 98-02-21 17:51:01 EST, you write: Don - If you opt for glace cotton, you might try "quilting thread" as sold byfabric stores or fabric departments of larger stores such as W-M. Itseems towork just fine. Though smaller thread than that of the mega- spoolsmentionedearly, it should prove no problem, especially if you remove thread beforefinal cure. Won't cost too much to give it a try at from Fishstink@aol.com Sun Feb 22 14:04:38 1998 Subject: smooth it out Hi everyone, I'm new to list, so if this has been covered a zillion times,myapologies. Does anyone have a quick fix for a rubbing compound to rub outbrush marks ( sorry, I don't have a dipping tank) from varnishing.Everytime Iuse 4/0 steel wool, too much comes off and I have to revarnish. Lookingforsomething REALLY mild. Rottenstone, toothpaste...anything.Mike Shay from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 22 14:07:54 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03174 for Subject: Re: plane blades At 07:07 PM 2/21/98, you wrote:Steve;The drill press thing sounds like a lot less effort than sandpaper. Gotlots of good ideas from everyone, now all I need is to get a cheap fleamarket plane or 2 to practice on. About the swbell thing in the message Isent off list, I didn't notice your Independece, Mo. under your name, sorryabout that, but ifyou ever get this way, look me up.John Channer John,Did I miss a post or are you referring to something in a magazinewhen you refer to "the drill press thing"? I'm seriously thinking of putting that "plow" in the base of my 91/2 but I'm wondering how that affects the throat settings and theireffecton "lifting fibers". Both Hoagy and Wayne are pretty specific on howimportant the small gap in the opening is to accurate results. It sounds inthe descriptions that the blade juts all the way (essentially) to thebottomof the "runners" which would have it sticking quite a ways below the levelof the frog. I fortunately have the embarassment of riches that I couldafford to dedicate one of my planes to having the plow but I have no desireto RE- discover on my own what someone else has already decided is alousy lifted fibers or do you use it to only such a depth that the lifted fiberswon't affect the final taper and then switch over to a more accurate(unplowed) plane ? If the blade remains as high as the new recessed areaitseems to me that you can only plane to a preset "over-dimensional"thickness, then you'll HAVE to switch to a new plane.Any ideas (or refutations of my argument)?Art from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Feb 22 15:21:49 1998 Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening In a message dated 98-02-22 13:47:15 EST, you write: Hot sand, perhaps? The idea might hold possibilities for a bright youngfellow with some active brain cells. I have thought about trying a thick-walled aluminum box section, perhapslongenough to cover the rod section as it sits in the planing groove, andinstalling some kind of heating element. With a little experimentation tofind the right time and temperature, this could be useful. Any thoughts? Sorry, Carsten, my wife just got my last five. Maybe I can pay you back inkind someday! Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Feb 22 15:56:56 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out In a message dated 98-02-22 15:09:25 EST, you write: Dear Mike There are a couple of problems: 1. A really mild abrasive just requires that much more elbow grease/timetoachieve the effect and thus is still prone to take the finish off the cornersbefore it smoothes out the brush marks on the flats. 2. Varnish applied thickly enough to avoid the above will tend to give yourcorners a decidedly rounded effect and will take a lifetime to dry. If you don't possess great amounts of patience and/or skill, hand rubbingwithits endless surface preparation is not for you. If considering spraying,substitute "runs/drips" for "brush marks". Are you sure you can't rig some kind of dipping tube? Davy Riggs from JMennen473@aol.com Sun Feb 22 16:09:52 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Hello Mike : Contact George Maurer - he has a "few " secret sauces just for thispurpose.610 756-6385. from Fishstink@aol.com Sun Feb 22 16:12:08 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Dear Davy,Thanks for the tips. I think I have the patience, but mayby not the skill.Thebrush marks are not deep...they're just there. I wasn't consideringspraying,and would like to have a dip tank, just don't have a place for it yet. I wouldconsider putting it in the dining room along with all the tools forrodmakingand flytying, but there is only so much I can expect my wife to tolerate.Sounds as if I will have to live with brush marks.Mike from Fishstink@aol.com Sun Feb 22 16:14:02 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Thanks so much, I was hoping somebody might have a solution. Also, do youknowof a formula for bluing nickel silver?Thanks, Mike from cparham@crocker.com Sun Feb 22 16:14:34 1998 Subject: Re: Hell Massachusetts also has Athol plus we have Belchertown. George W. Barnes wrote: Harry Boyd wrote: Or for that matter, what about Toad Suck, Arkansas? Been there anddidthat! Great catfish fry! George B, from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Feb 22 16:29:22 1998 Subject: Re: Blueing NS Check out Dave LeClair (LECLAIR123@aol.com), he's got the Payne formulathat'sworth the $$. It has worked beautifully for me. Rob from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Feb 22 17:19:05 1998 Subject: Re: plane blades Remember if you ever do get your plane milled that when they clamp it inthatto will bow the plane some, so be careful. Mark from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Feb 22 17:26:33 1998 Subject: Re: plane blades What is slotting a plane? Mark from d_price@global2000.net Sun Feb 22 17:36:52 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id SAA30714 for; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 18:36:48 -0500 Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 98-02-22 13:47:15 EST, you write: freshly glued rod in a kind of planingform, putting a sandbag on top. Do Iwin 5 dollars?) regards Carsten >> Hot sand, perhaps? The idea might hold possibilities for a bright youngfellow with some active brain cells. I have thought about trying a thick-walled aluminum box section,perhaps longenough to cover the rod section as it sits in the planing groove, andinstalling some kind of heating element. With a little experimentationtofind the right time and temperature, this could be useful. Any thoughts? Sorry, Carsten, my wife just got my last five. Maybe I can pay you backinkind someday! Davy I would think if you put it in your steel form and cover with a heavysteel plate(as mentioned earlyer) and have it up off the bench so youcould fit 3or4 light bulbs under it the steel will conduct the heat...just a little idea, my .02 worth....Dave Price from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Feb 22 17:44:03 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 22Feb 1998 18:44:56 -0500 Subject: Re: smooth it out Any car compound....the less grit the better. As a test I would suggest a 1/4" dowel finished in the manner you describe. Be sure to follow up with a wax though. I use polyurethane so this method is suited with that in mind. Maker of fine rod building tools... Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Feb 22 17:54:20 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 22Feb 1998 18:55:09 -0500 Subject: Re: smooth it out You do not have to live with brush marks. Give me your address and I will send you a picture. I poor mans dip tube. I don't have it developed, but I will get it to you. Date: Sun, 22 Feb 1998 17:11:19 EST From: Fishstink@aol.com Subject: Re: smooth it out Dear Davy,Thanks for the tips. I think I have the patience, but mayby not the skill.Thebrush marks are not deep...they're just there. I wasn't consideringspraying,and would like to have a dip tank, just don't have a place for it yet. Iwouldconsider putting it in the dining room along with all the tools forrodmakingand flytying, but there is only so much I can expect my wife to tolerate.Sounds as if I will have to live with brush marks.Mike Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Fishstink@aol.com Sun Feb 22 17:58:16 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Dear Jon,I was thinking of car polish as well, is this something you have tried?Mike from Fishstink@aol.com Sun Feb 22 18:00:01 1998 Subject: Re: Blueing NS Dear Rob,Thanks for the address. Just mailed him. I remember seeing an addsomewherethat he was selling Paynes formula.Thanks, Mike from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 22 18:05:46 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Fishstink@aol.com wrote: Thanks so much, I was hoping somebody might have a solution. Also, doyou knowof a formula for bluing nickel silver?Thanks,Mike Try using a badger brush. Flood the brush with varnish. Wipe one side ofthebrush on a wire stretched across a can. Wipe one side of the rod smoothlysothatyou "follow" the flow. Do not reverse directions. Turn the rod 180 degreesandrepeat the above. Should flow out perfectly. If not, the varnish is not thinenough. Be sure to do this at 75 to 80 F.John from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Feb 22 18:07:48 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out You might try 1500 grit wet/dry and sand VERY lightly until you get theeffect you want. Then move to rottenstone, polishing compound, etc. Brian P.S. I've othen wondered about using automotive clear coat in a littleairbrush, but am chicken to try it on a new rod. Anybody have anyexperience with this? from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 22 18:13:45 1998 Subject: straightening Steve,Greg,all;I tried the weight on the forms method and it seemed to help quite a bit.The sections still didn't come out perfect, but I got alot closer thanusual.I used 3/8" x 2" x 5' flat stock that I got from a welding shop. Idon't know what it weighs, but its pretty heavy,flattened out the crown inmy wood form. I just cleaned the glue off and put it right in the formwithout any paper or anything and didn't have any glue on the form later.My .02 c'sJohn Channer from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Feb 22 18:19:21 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id SAA08691 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id SAA16507 for ; Sun, 22 Feb1998 Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening I used something similar on 2 rod sections I glued up a coupleweeks ago. I didn't have a 1/4 inch steel plate, but I used a 3/4 inch aluminum angle (pretty rigid) which I pinched to the rod section and planing form with several spring clamps. Then I put thewhole thing vertically in a light-bulb heated drying box (barely fit).I warmed the planing form in the box before I clamped the rod on it. The sections came out straight, but they also had the advantage ofnodelss construction and a Milward-style binder wrap. One disadvantage is that you can only do 1 section at a time, unlessyou have more than one planing form. Something similar: the planing form is a nice place to hold the sections when you file/sand/scrape off the glue. Reduces the tendancyof the tip especially to roll.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote:To All, First, I would like to know if anyone has used the method suggested byCarl O'connor (Sept/Oct '97 Planing Form) to straighten freshly gluedsections. Has anyone had success with this? I wonder if it would work withwoodenforms, say covering the forms with paper to keep glue off. I was wondering if, or how it could work with urac? Still wondering, and wandering, in Independence, Steve from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 22 18:27:06 1998 Subject: urac Art;I got the spec sheet automatically, didn't have the forethought to ask forone. Its aimed at production woodworking shops, but I figured that Icouldn't screw up too badly by following the recomendations for a deeperglue line, seems to work O.K. Thanks for the address for Klingspor, itsgood paper, I used to get it all the time back when I lived in thecivilized world.Out here all you see is Norton, usually in 5 pack ofassorted grits, fine, medium and coarse.The good part is that , unlikeChicago area, there are fish in all the rivers and mountains,too.No trafficjams,either.I think its more than a fair trade.John Channer from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Feb 22 18:31:08 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id SAA11863 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id SAA13343 for ; Sun, 22 Feb1998 Subject: Resorcinol While we're discussing glues... Does anyone (John Zimny?) know if its possible to catalyze resorcinolresin with something besides the wood-flour mix, like you can do withURAC and NaCl? The label says the catalyst contains formaldehyde andparaformaldehyde along with wood flour and walnut shells. I'm no chemistbut if someone has an idea, I'd give it a try. On a related note, someone said that resorcinol has a short shelf lifelike URAC. I found some half cans I had since grad school (the mid 70's),and I glued a couple strips as a test and it seemed just fine to me.Not that I'd recommend using 25 year old glue but I'm adding thatdatapoint.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 22 18:38:59 1998 Subject: straightening Carsten;Close, but not quite, we'll call it $3.00. Use a heavy piece of steel plateas long orlonger than your rod section and set the forms to be a liitle{ iforget how much} smaller than your rod from point to point. You want theforms to follow the same taper as the rod, but allow the rod section to beabout 60% above the form. Straighten as best you can and get it in theformwith the plate balanced on top. I think that the longer the open time onyour glue, the better this will work, I fumbled around a bit trying to getthe hang of it and I think the urac was setting up too much by the time Igot it set in the form. Next time should be better.Good luck, and by allmeans subscribe to The Planing Form! from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 22 18:44:04 1998 Subject: Walmart Harry;Thanks for the tip about Walmart, As soon as they get the thing built I,llcheck it out.John Channerp.s. Son of Sam is moving here to Durango, or so the rumors go, so we'regetting a super Walmart complete with grocery store. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Feb 22 18:53:53 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Brian,I have been spraying rods for years with an air brush. It workswell. I would suggest that you use a varnish and not an automotive clear coat. Dave L. from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 22 18:54:26 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA26664 for Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening At 06:19 PM 2/22/98 -0600, you wrote:I used something similar on 2 rod sections I glued up a coupleweeks ago. I didn't have a 1/4 inch steel plate, but I used a 3/4 inch aluminum angle (pretty rigid) which I pinched to the rod section and planing form with several spring clamps. Then I put thewhole thing vertically in a light-bulb heated drying box (barely fit).I warmed the planing form in the box before I clamped the rod on it. The sections came out straight, but they also had the advantage ofnodelss construction and a Milward-style binder wrap. One disadvantage is that you can only do 1 section at a time, unlessyou have more than one planing form. Something similar: the planing form is a nice place to hold the sections when you file/sand/scrape off the glue. Reduces the tendancyof the tip especially to roll.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank,I must be missing something here. I don't see why putting an objectwith 120 deg angles into a planing form with 60 deg angles helps insupporting it for removal of the glue. Doesn't the thing cant so that one ofthe corners snuggles down into the 60 deg vee and present a 120VERTICALLY(at the top)? Or are you just using the flats of the form to support theflats of the rod (not that they're all that flat when still glue-ridden!)? the rod over into a different position than to be nestled in the vee underits own weight/inertia.Did I miss the first posting where all of these questions wereconfronted or was it made clear in a way that all my inquiries were mademoot? Thanks,Art from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 22 18:58:16 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA26866 for Subject: Re: urac At 04:15 PM 2/22/98, you wrote:Art;I got the spec sheet automatically, didn't have the forethought to ask forone. Its aimed at production woodworking shops, but I figured that Icouldn't screw up too badly by following the recomendations for a deeperglue line, seems to work O.K. Thanks for the address for Klingspor, itsgood paper, I used to get it all the time back when I lived in thecivilized world.Out here all you see is Norton, usually in 5 pack ofassorted grits, fine, medium and coarse.The good part is that , unlikeChicago area, there are fish in all the rivers and mountains,too.No trafficjams,either.I think its more than a fair trade.John Channer John,Can't fault your logic there!Artps: I love that McGuane quote, "When the trout are gone, smash the state".Now I guess I'll be on some watchdog's "follow HIS posts" list! from anglport@con2.com Sun Feb 22 19:08:50 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27605 for Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening Frank,I must be missing something here. I don't see why putting an objectwith 120 deg angles into a planing form with 60 deg angles ... SORRY! I think I should have read John's explanation before I wrote. Saveyour typing. The angles make sense if the forms are spread wide enough!NowI have another question---how can you foresee what's in the next letterwhile you're dealing with the current one. I GOTTA get a grip on this"listserve" stuff!Again, sorry for the trouble,Art from rparsons@gr-lakes.com Sun Feb 22 19:12:11 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Well Guys, I'm new to this forum, but perhaps some of my misadventures will stopsomeone from making a terrible mistake...I am refering to using two part automotive finishes with an airbrush,DON'T do it... Emeron in particular is one of the most nasty substancesthat 3-M ever made. It requires the user to use a fresh air mask, andcan be absorbed through the skin, liver and kidney damage, nervoussystem damage are more than remote possiblilites...I used it sparingly a few years ago in my apartment with an airbrush...I was finishing poolcues on a slow rotating fixture, Cabela's sell it...3rpm. Stick to some of the more traditional substances, Like sparvarnish thinned 10% with thinner.Take care and stay away from open flames... I'd rather be fishing...Bob from d_price@global2000.net Sun Feb 22 20:29:39 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA05387 for; Sun, 22 Feb 1998 21:29:35 -0500 Subject: Heat-Treating Hi all ,just finished heat-treating...Used the little oven below the big oven,didn't think I needed all that space for some sticks.....20 min and theycame out like tiny black twigs....searched the archives for the nextstep but didn't find what I was looking for.....how do you plane themnow there almost round at this point?????...... Just kidding.....everything is going well, they shure have a differentsound and feel after heat-treating!!!!!.Dave Price from jczimny@dol.net Sun Feb 22 20:46:38 1998 Subject: Re: Resorcinol Frank Stetzer wrote: While we're discussing glues... Does anyone (John Zimny?) know if its possible to catalyze resorcinolresin with something besides the wood-flour mix, like you can do withURAC and NaCl? The label says the catalyst contains formaldehyde andparaformaldehyde along with wood flour and walnut shells. I'm nochemistbut if someone has an idea, I'd give it a try. On a related note, someone said that resorcinol has a short shelf lifelike URAC. I found some half cans I had since grad school (the mid 70's),and I glued a couple strips as a test and it seemed just fine to me.Not that I'd recommend using 25 year old glue but I'm adding thatdatapoint.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Hi Frank,Yes, the folks at Borden told me that you need their hardener.However,I can't see why one would need the walnut shells. Perhaps they could tellyouhow to add the formaldehydes needed. Their number is (910) 884-8918.ReggieKline is one of their tech guys.John from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Sun Feb 22 21:37:09 1998 mailfep2-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 (GMT) Subject: PPG 77-5 type="54455854"; To the list:I've been using PPG 77-5 as my finish of choice for a few years now.I've always liked the results I've gotten using the Garrison dip methodof application. Light sanding with a 1200 grit wet and dry betweenseveral coats has always produced a very satisfactory mirror qualityfinish. On a recent rod however, I encountered a few very small'craters' in the otherwise flawless PPG 77-5 finish. By small craters, Imean several tiny dots where the finish coat seemed to resistfilling-in, thus creating a minute indentation. Some might call it afisheye. Gee, I think I'd prefer to have a dust speck -- 'cause I canpolish a dust speck out -- but an indentation is a real bummer. This isprobably not a new problem to some of you -- It is for me and I've justnever seen it addressed in the short time I've been copy ing the list.Any ideas? Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Feb 22 22:12:23 1998 Subject: Re: "Fisheye" in the finish I had the same problem with varmor poly. I assumed it was time to replaceitso I did and it went away. Probably not too $ effective, but it gave me anexcuse to modify/improve the tube set up. Rob Hoffhines from KDLoup@aol.com Sun Feb 22 22:23:54 1998 Subject: Re: glace cotton Guys,If anyone is interested, I have been using kite string for the bindingthread when heat treating and crochet thread when glueing. Both werepurchased at Walmart. After extensive searching, the crochet thread wastheonly 100% cotton, small diameter thread I could find locally. Theupholsterysupply businesses where not helpful. As a bonus, the crochet thread sandsoffvery easily after glueing. Kurt Loup from jfoster@gte.net Sun Feb 22 23:45:10 1998 Subject: tapers inserts Posted two of Chris Bogart's new 3pc yellow rose tapers..also sorry someone pointed out that i had **ed up one of wayne's tapers 7922,i think i've fot it straightened out.. sorry about the delay Jerry from channer@frontier.net Sun Feb 22 23:54:10 1998 Subject: smooth it out Mark;I brushed a couple of old rods I refinished before I built a dip tube andused an old woodworkers trick. Heat the varnish up in a pan of hot water{not on the stove!!!} and use a very soft brush with plenty of varnish onit. Heating the varnish instead of thinning it makes it flow better so thebrush marks flow out, but you get pretty much the same build per coat.Hopethis is of use.John Channer from jfoster@gte.net Mon Feb 23 00:09:16 1998 Subject: anno archives OK Gang Ted Godfrey has graciously volunteered to try to help with a catalog ofthe archives. some of you had vol'd to help, would you please contacthim at: "Ted Godfrey" It might be a good chanch for some of you to help who haven't read thearchives the first time!!! The format is started under RMA the first two items under the firsttopicNothing is in concrete yet so suggestions will be appreciatedJerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 23 00:28:51 1998 Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:28:38 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Disaster.3 On Sat, 21 Feb 1998, Harry Boyd wrote: Mick, I know this is heresy, and I stand open to all flames,,, but it could justbe that your wife is right. There are some things more important thanfishingand fly rods. To paraphrase Robert Traver, it's just that most of thosethingswhich are truly more important aren't as much fun. Maybe, just maybe,childrenare one of those things more important, though it is debatable. Childrenaredefinitely more fun, though. My daughter, who is 11 going on 21, went toadance last night. I could hardly wait to go pick her up. Enjoy thesetimeswhen they are small. They are truly the "best of times... the worst oftimes." And worth every sleepless minute!Harry Boyd Too right! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from rennygr@ibm.net Mon Feb 23 00:29:16 1998 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id GAA15348 for; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 06:29:13 GMT Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening A straightening method I tried with some success on my last rod (longerago thanIcare to admit) following gluing was to suspend the section by the bindingstringatthe butt end & hang a small weight from the tip end of the excess bindingcord,i.e., a plumb bob. I didn't attempt to use any form of heat during thedryiing,but even so the sections were considerably straighter than what I hadobtainedearlier. Care needs to be taken, of course, that the hanging weight doesnottwist. Renny from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 23 00:32:51 1998 Mon, 23 Feb 1998 14:32:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Igot an info page with the Urac I got from Nelsons and it gives atime/templist for using heated platens for heat setting laminations. I havefollowedthis table and heat set 6 rods at 200d for 4.5-5 minutes with noproblems. To All, First, I would like to know if anyone has used the method suggested byCarl O'connor (Sept/Oct '97 Planing Form) to straighten freshly gluedsections. Has anyone had success with this? I wonder if it would work withwoodenforms, say covering the forms with paper to keep glue off. I was wondering if, or how it could work with urac? Still wondering, and wandering, in Independence, Steve I don't straighten the blanks as you mention, but I do leave the blanks in the (wooden) planing form until dry. If you're using epoxy I'd cover the forms as even little blobs of glue will cause problems but other glues don't seem a problem at all. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from brookside.rod@juno.com Mon Feb 23 04:23:25 1998 05:22:40 EST Subject: Re: "Fisheyes" Joe; from time to time I have suffered with fisheye problems. I have come toconclude that the cause is from oils, lubricants either natural orsynthetic. Softeners put into cloths via the dryer sheets could get ontoyour hands when you wipe your hands on your pants or shirt. Natural oils from rubbing you hands thru your hair or scratching your face. Thesolution appears to be "making the work place clean" and operating roomlike discipline. My shop is multi functional. That is the machine toolsare adjacent to rod building gear. When I wrap and prep for varnish Iclean the work area and especially the rod bench the day before. Rodshafts are washed with alcohol, hands are washed twice with hot waterandmild soap. Cover the bench with kraft paper where hand tools andburnishers are laid down while wrapping. Keeps things under control. The results are worth it. The varnish in my tubes has been there forquite a while. It doesn't go bad. If you really suspect it thenconsider siphoning off the top couple inches and replacing it. Gary Dabrowski - brookside.rod@juno.com end _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from channer@frontier.net Mon Feb 23 06:23:18 1998 Subject: fisheye Joe, Rob;I have had this happen with spar varnish, I blamed those store bought tackclothsleaving residue on the rod. Also think they leave lint behind. Ihaven't had this problem since I quit using them, I just clean the rod withlint free painters rags and alcohol, the blow off any lint just before Ihang the section in my dip tube cabinet. I filled the little voids I gotwith varnish on a needle, them sanded them flat before the next coat. Iguess I was lucky not to get any in the final coat.2 c's worthJohn Channer from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Mon Feb 23 07:53:57 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 23 Feb 1998 08:53:26 -0500 Subject: Re: glace cotton DRinker370@aol.com wrote: Don, I just recieved thread tensioners from Dale Clements CustomTackle,444Schantz Rd. Allentown, PA 18104 (610) 395-5119 catalogue#54-03-00 price $14.66 per unit. They also sell a Metallic threadtensioning spool insert which may work with silk thread . I plan ontrying itin my wrapper if I ever finish building all of the tools for this bambooadventure. Graphite sure was easy. Dave Try a sewing machine repair shop in your area.. I found beautiful blackand chrome industrial tensioners for $2.50 a piece! from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Feb 23 08:40:11 1998 Subject: RE: Smooth it out One product that has worked well for me is 3M Perfect-It II, which is anautomotive rubbing compound. ( product #051131-05973) I got it at apaintstore that caters to auto body shops. It leaves a gloss finish. To use it,first level any dust nib, lump or other imperfection with ultra finesandpaper. I use 1000 to 1500 grit paper, applied wet. This leaves a dullsurface where you have applied it. Then rub the whole rod with perfect- it,rubbing a bit more where you used the paper.I have always brush varnished. Follow the suggestions from John Z. andJohn C.regarding brush technique and heating the varnish and you will get betterresults. It takes some practice and feel for applying the right ammount ofvarnish, but you can get good results. from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Feb 23 10:38:46 1998 Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 Art, your oven might be cheaper. I figure I have about $175 into mine. Ispent $90 on the mica strip, about $25 on the sheet metal, about $25 onthethermostat, and then a few more dollars on some other items. I got offcheap in that a fellow listserver gave me some left over items from hisoven. The insulation might be expensive-that and rat screen is what I wasgiven. Did not take long to build once I had the mica strip, and was sureI was wiring it correctly. It is very sharp, and I have been testing thethermostat for accuracy. Let me know if I can answer any questions. Youroven will probably work just as well. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2Date: Saturday, February 21, 1998 4:43 PM At 03:59 PM 2/21/98 -0800, you wrote:Art, I know the heat guns have their advantages, but I just built theovenin Wayne's book, and it even works! My thanks to Wayne and to ThomasPenrose. I would recommend it. Not too hard to build. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Robert,You're just the guy I've been looking to speak to. I've pretty much madeupmy mind on the air-gun style (I HAVE the damn air-gun and the restsoundslike about $25) but I was helped along by my local appliance guy whosecheapest oven thermometer was 50 clams and who never heard of themicastripheat source Wayne recommends! The ones he was offering were going tobehit-or-miss as to whether they'd put out enough heat and sounded likebigballoons to acquire. That helped me no end to decide to go with what Ialready half have! If you can refute my logic, I'm all ears.Art from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Mon Feb 23 10:39:02 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon,23 Feb 1998 10:40:23 CST Subject: Re: smooth it out Pumice (2 grades), rottenstone and corn starch (really) have beensuggested tome, but I have not yet tried them. - Grayson from thramer@presys.com Mon Feb 23 10:39:34 1998 0000 Subject: Re: URAC Question Randall E. Hicks wrote: I have a question about heat treating rod sections glued with URAC 185forthose of you who use this glue. The URAC 185 resin can says you can dryitat 100 deg. F. Wayne Cattanach's book says that URAC can benefit fromheatsetting and that you can heat treat a rod section at 100-105 deg. F for24hours. What is the upper temperature limit for URAC glue before it fails? Myovencan only regulate down to 125 deg. F. Can I safely heat set the URACgluedsection at 125 or 150 deg F? Thanks for any help or ideas. Randall HicksRandall,The URAC will heat treat to at least 350. Ready to work in 10 min.A.J.Thramer from FarAndFine@aol.com Mon Feb 23 10:56:22 1998 Subject: Japaning Metal Hi Folks - I am new to the list - an avid trout fisher and a cane rod nut. While I donot build rods, I do have a great deal of fun buying and rebuilding -refinishing old "project" rods for my own use. I have just acquired a Heddon Expert that has Jappaned ferrules - they areshowing some wear on the outside - although the fit is tight. Can anyoneplease suggest a source for a tinted lacquer or any other thing that mightwork to bring back the gold coloring? Thanks for you help Al WoodardManchester, NH from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Feb 23 11:23:34 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA21069 for; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:54:57 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening ----------Davy wrote: Hot sand, perhaps? The idea might hold possibilities for a bright youngfellow with some active brain cells. I have thought about trying a thick-walled aluminum box section,perhapslongenough to cover the rod section as it sits in the planing groove, andinstalling some kind of heating element. With a little experimentationtofind the right time and temperature, this could be useful. Any thoughts? Sorry, Carsten, my wife just got my last five. Maybe I can pay you backinkind someday! Bright, young, active braincells. If you are referring to me, I amflattered, but sorry, wrong guy. The reason for using a sandbag is the evenpressure it puts on the blank, whereas a steel rod, as described by Steve,will not give such an even pressure, as it is not able to adapt to theshape of the blank. Just a thought. As to heat and glue, I am, once again, not the right guy. I use PVA glue,but am thinking of switching to PU, as the PVA's have become too fast.(Othervise PVA's are OK). I guess I didn't earn the 5 buck, so its OK. Regards Carsten from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Feb 23 11:23:41 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id RAA06216 for; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:24:26 GMT Subject: RE: Smooth it out At 09:39 23/02/98 EST, you wrote:One product that has worked well for me is 3M Perfect-It II, which is anautomotive rubbing compound. ( product #051131-05973) I got it at apaintstore that caters to auto body shops. It leaves a gloss finish. To use it,first level any dust nib, lump or other imperfection with ultra finesandpaper. I use 1000 to 1500 grit paper, applied wet. This leaves a dullsurface where you have applied it. Then rub the whole rod with perfect-it,rubbing a bit more where you used the paper.I have always brush varnished. Follow the suggestions from John Z. andJohn C.regarding brush technique and heating the varnish and you will get betterresults. It takes some practice and feel for applying the right ammount ofvarnish, but you can get good results. It seems I've missed something. Where will I find the brushing advice fromthe two Gurus mentioned? Because I whip and fill first, I'm a brusher too, and get excellent resultswith Epifanes foam brushes. In my kack-handed finishing, they're MUCHbetterthan brushes. (Sorry for the shout.) But, I still can't get a finish likeEdward Barder - there again, no-one else can either. John Cooper (England) from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Feb 23 11:25:16 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Grayson;Pumice and Rottenstone are stoneage methods.They are not only amess,but aremuch less effectice compared to synthetic cutters and polishes.GEM from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Feb 23 11:51:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: "Fisheyes" Guys,When I worked in a body shop we always wiped down all the cars toeliminateany waxes etc. that were present on the surface and we always made surewedried the car as we went with lint free clothes. If you are wiping downyourrods before you varnish but are not drying them that could be where thefisheye is coming from. The thinners have a tendency to pool as they dryhencethe fish eye.also I would use a tack cloth to pick up any lint off the surface from therag.Bret from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Feb 23 11:56:27 1998 Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening In a message dated 98-02-23 01:35:08 EST, you write: OK guys, this is totally notional but it might be worth submitting to thecogitations of the bretheren. What if... the section were suspended encased in some sort of braided cord,like Orvis leader only bigger, and a weight were hung from the end of thecord? I don't know where one would find braided material of the propersizeand elasticity, but I strongly suspect that it exists. If the work were heated just enough to make the glue go plastic, might notthecompression forces on the section tend to equalize and allow the weighttostraighten it after a little while? Think about it whilst I go steelheading!Davy from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Feb 23 11:57:46 1998 Subject: RE: Smooth it out In a message dated 2/23/98 5:28:24 PM, you wrote: John - I was referring to two messages which are part of this thread. Ihaveheard of people using the foam brushes, and I can see some advantages, butIdon't know how you would get the details right. I mean getting under theguides without making a mess, getting close to the cork, etc. I use a sablebrush, apply the varnish in one direction only, and if I think there is toomuch in one area, make a leveling stroke with the extreme tip of thebrush,before moving on. It takes practice, and I would expect everyone to have aslightly different technique from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Mon Feb 23 12:59:15 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening Davy, I had similar thoughts when I read the post about hanging theblank from the binding cord and hanging a weight on the end by the cord. In the testing of Air Conditioners we use what we call socks on the endof temperature sensors. These socks are kept wet with distilled water.The difference between this and a dry sensor is used to determine therelative humidity. For those with a scientific bent it's apsychrometer. The sock material we get from Pepperell Braiding Co. in Pepperell, MA.It looks like what you would have if you cut the plastic tips off oftennis shoe laces. I have also had fingers bandaged using a stockingmaterial that is worked larger than the finger and slid over it andpulled tight. Chinese handcuff style. I wonder if a material like thiscouldn't be used. If longer than the blank, a weight could be tied toone end and the other end tied to a bracket or rod of some kind. Iwould think that excess glue would have to be removed first or it wouldbe a lot of work to get the material off. Also, I have seen electricians pull wires through conduits with apulling sleeve. The pulling sleeves are braided of wire cable and againwork like a Chinese Handcuff. However, I have not seen one small enough We'll have to work on this idea. I hope the steelhead were biting. I'm cooped up in the office writing areport. Dick Fuhrman from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Mon Feb 23 13:09:33 1998 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Payne node staggering? Does anyone know what node staggering was used onPayne rods? Thanks,Jerry BallardVicksburg, MS from RONGEY@aol.com Mon Feb 23 14:02:04 1998 Subject: fisheye I, too, have had considerable problem with fisheye. After I had: -spoken with the PPG product representative... (no suggestions) -changed the type of mineral spirits I was using to wipe the rod prior todipping (ultimately trying three different brands)... Bought fresh stufffroma quality store -Did a final surface cleansing with acetone... Whew! -grounded the dip tube to eliminate the possibility of an electrostaticcharge( my dip tube sits in a carpeted area (yeah, I get THE LOOK now andthen!)... -and (after several discussions with Wayne, following which he wonderedifsoldering flux had leached into the varnish) re-building the dip tube... and I still had trouble with fisheyes, Wayne and I swapped dip tubes. When Iused his...fisheyes (rats!) Then he used mine....no problem!!!! I then found a bottle of the same mineral spirits Wayne uses (WALMARTcarriesit...made by Gillespie @ $3.77/ pint). Sure enough, no fisheyes! Apparently there is some residue in the other brands of mineral spiritswhichprevents adhesion of the polyurethane. I have asked about the formulationofmineral spirits at both paint stores nearby (both are high volume,professional/contractor stores) and I was unable to find anything aboutthecomponents of what is commonly sold as mineral spirits. So I post the solution of the problem I was having. I have dipped only onerod since I acquired the Gillespie product, but "it worked for me..." My $.02 Ken Rongey from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Feb 23 14:09:00 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out John,You say Son of Sam is coming to Durango? There goes the neighborhood.Hank. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Feb 23 14:25:29 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening Dick, et al; Isn't their an article about just this sort of contraption in The BestOf The Planing Form that uses stiff braided nylon? Something like theropewe use for water skiing? I think there is, and you might look it over.Harry Boyddickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: Davy, I had similar thoughts when I read the post about hanging theblank from the binding cord and hanging a weight on the end by the cord. In the testing of Air Conditioners we use what we call socks on the endof temperature sensors. These socks are kept wet with distilled water.The difference between this and a dry sensor is used to determine therelative humidity. For those with a scientific bent it's apsychrometer. The sock material we get from Pepperell Braiding Co. in Pepperell, MA.It looks like what you would have if you cut the plastic tips off oftennis shoe laces. I have also had fingers bandaged using a stockingmaterial that is worked larger than the finger and slid over it andpulled tight. Chinese handcuff style. I wonder if a material like thiscouldn't be used. If longer than the blank, a weight could be tied toone end and the other end tied to a bracket or rod of some kind. Iwould think that excess glue would have to be removed first or it wouldbe a lot of work to get the material off. Also, I have seen electricians pull wires through conduits with apulling sleeve. The pulling sleeves are braided of wire cable and againwork like a Chinese Handcuff. However, I have not seen one small enough We'll have to work on this idea. I hope the steelhead were biting. I'm cooped up in the office writing areport. Dick Fuhrman from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Feb 23 14:48:52 1998 Subject: Aurthorship -- Annotated Archives To All, As noted by Jerry, it appears that the Annotated Archives will be set up onJerry's page - a lot of work, time, and page space, overhead for Jerry - thank you!! This post is made as a request (and will probably be repeatedoccasionally): Listers, it would help with annotating if you would provide first and lastname on your most worthy - rod building info - posts to the List. Besidesthe obvious reasons for providing authorship, there is mechanicalproblemswith annotating when it is left off. Since there will probably not be anymore grit - slinging or notes on location of "hell", all posts will be worthyof having first and last names. Thank you, reformed grit-slinger, AnnoTed (note: there are various spellings of"anno") from frankc@webspan.net Mon Feb 23 15:02:49 1998 0500 Subject: home shop machinist Can anyone tell me where I can get a resent copy of Home shopMachinist. I live in northern New Jersey. Frank Caruso from anglport@con2.com Mon Feb 23 15:25:38 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA12523 for Subject: Re: Disaster Part 2 At 08:37 AM 2/23/98 -0800, you wrote:Art, your oven might be cheaper. I figure I have about $175 into mine. Ispent $90 on the mica strip, about $25 on the sheet metal, about $25 onthethermostat, and then a few more dollars on some other items. I got offcheap in that a fellow listserver gave me some left over items from hisoven. The insulation might be expensive-that and rat screen is what Iwasgiven. Did not take long to build once I had the mica strip, and was sureI was wiring it correctly. It is very sharp, and I have been testing thethermostat for accuracy. Let me know if I can answer any questions. Youroven will probably work just as well. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Rob/Bob,Thanks for the "bounce". You can bet I'll ask if I think I can glean anyinfo. Mine is starting to look even cheaper as I was told by two friendsthat they have friends in the "tin knocker" biz. If I can get all the sheetmetal gratis this thing should cost about $5. What I have to do next islocate a way to modify my 2 speed heat gun. The 2 speeds are: 2 low and 2high!! I'm in contact with the mftr. to get a schematic but I may haveblownit by telling them why I want it----they MAKE infinitely adjustablemodels!Still hoping,Art from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 23 15:28:48 1998 Subject: Rod makers? All, Recently, I've seen rods in rod lists made by rod makers that I've neverheard about. It's a shame if makers are being forgotten - has anyoneever tried to compile a complete list of rodmakers and the companiesthey worked for. (or maybe owned) I think this would be a decent addition to a site like Jerry's. Justlike the taper collection. Listed my name and a brief history. Possiblewith a cross- reference, under the company, of all the makers that workedwith that company. Going back into history as far as possible. Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Feb 23 15:34:38 1998 Subject: WTD: 9' Granger rod sock All, I need a 9' W&M Granger Deluxe rod sock - anyone got one that they'dsell or trade? Bob Corsetti's supplier has not shipped him any newreplacement socks in over 12 mts. Sounds like he doesn't expect to everget them in again. Off list replies please. Don BurnsCanerods@aol.comFlyfisher@cmix.com from gwr@seanet.com Mon Feb 23 16:08:52 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA14523 for; Subject: Black Perfection Guides Hi fellows, I'm searching for 200 #2 black Perfection snakes - in order to matchtherest of the guides, they really must be Perfections. I've been throughAngler's WS, Clemen's, and Shoff's catalogs, but to no avail. Angler'sstaff said that they have been discontinued. If anyone can suggest asource, I'd appreciate it. If anyone actually has a batch of these guidesand wants to sell them, please contact me off list. Thanks much, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Feb 23 16:23:36 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 23Feb 1998 17:24:23 -0500 Subject: Binding Feeling I would like to get some feedback on feelings regarding binding thread. I know about the 16/4 vs. 24/4. But I don't know if this is an issue about strength or diameter between the two. I have used glace cotton covered polyester before and the only qualm was with the dye seeping. Does anyone have any problems with this substitute or is Glace cotton the way to go. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from anglport@con2.com Mon Feb 23 16:34:53 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA17364 for Subject: Re: home shop machinist At 04:04 PM 2/23/98 -0500, you wrote:Can anyone tell me where I can get a resent copy of Home shopMachinist. I live in northern New Jersey. Frank Caruso Frank,If Borders in Bridgewater Commons doesn't have copies, they might orderit actualy MISSING a copy of something or other. I used to get my copysecond- hand from a great friend who passed away last year and I reallymissthe mag (though not enough to subscribe). My current bills for magazinesareHIDEOUS and adding another could DEFINITELY result in my learning about"thelook" you guys are all talking about. It's a fine line we tread to staybetween "my wonderful fella" and "that S-O-B".Good luck,Art from anglport@con2.com Mon Feb 23 17:04:36 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19402 for Subject: Re: Pictures Dave,I'm thinking of scrapping my Garrison binder and switching to the Milwardone. I like the way the Garrison wraps but I hate the time spent taking thetwists out of the blank! My first lack of understanding is, what providesthe tension so that the rod is uniformly compressed and the glue is drivenout sufficiently without causing starvation? Yours is certainly a beautyanda model to strive for but I want to know what to use to take the place ofthe weights that Garry and Hoagy suggested using. I'm afraid to trustmyselfto accurately say "Yeah, that's about the right thread tension" and thenfind that I have random micrometer readings after the glue is dried.Anysuggestions? BTW, is that brass or copper piping that supports yourpulleys?Also, the Milward specs don't seem to make clear (or I'm not reading themright), are the pulleys merely trapped on the piping (by the hose clamps)and they turn independently, or are they affixed to the pipes for somestructural reason that I haven't fathomed yet?Thanks in advance for any suggestions,Art from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Feb 23 18:12:17 1998 Subject: Re: Payne node staggering? Spirel staircase.Every other strip was pushed up ~ 1 1/2 ". from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Feb 23 18:38:08 1998 Subject: slipping problem I have had a problem with my cane strip moving in the first rough form. This gives me an angle that is not centered. Anyone else experience this? I need help (obviously). Robert Clarke from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Feb 23 18:59:44 1998 Subject: [Fwd: http://www.copper.org/industrial/bronze_bearing.htm] 5606C941481258880D395532" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 5606C941481258880D395532 Here's some stuff I promised to post awhile ago and just forgot. Iopened these on my 'puter w/ no ill effects. Brian --------------5606C941481258880D395532 freenet.macatawa.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA26549 for Subject: http://www.copper.org/industrial/bronze_bearing.htm =_NextPart_000_01BD071D.83C7D740" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD071D.83C7D740 Brian Creek------=_NextPart_000_01BD071D.83C7D740 Materials.url" Shortcut) Materials.url" [InternetShortcut]URL=http://www.copper.org/industrial/bronze_bearing.htm ------=_NextPart_000_01BD071D.83C7D740-- --------------5606C941481258880D395532 freenet.macatawa.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA26467 for Subject: http://www.copper.org/properties/standard-designations/cast- nickel-silvers.htm =_NextPart_000_01BD071D.522F00A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD071D.522F00A0 Brian Creek------=_NextPart_000_01BD071D.522F00A0 StandardDesignations.url" Shortcut) StandardDesignations.url" [InternetShortcut]URL=3Dhttp://www.copper.org/properties/standard- designations/cast-nickel-=silvers.htm ------=_NextPart_000_01BD071D.522F00A0-- --------------5606C941481258880D395532 freenet.macatawa.org (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id QAA26429 for Subject: http://www.copper.org/properties/standard-designations/cast- bronzes.htm =_NextPart_000_01BD071D.373E07A0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01BD071D.373E07A0 Brian Creek------=_NextPart_000_01BD071D.373E07A0 Designations.url" Shortcut) Designations.url" [InternetShortcut]URL=3Dhttp://www.copper.org/properties/standard- designations/cast-bronzes=.htm ------=_NextPart_000_01BD071D.373E07A0-- --------------5606C941481258880D395532-- from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Feb 23 19:14:45 1998 UAA25071;Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:13:17 -0500 Subject: Re: straightening To All; After listening to all the chat about straightening - something iswrong! You are trying to correct an ill after the sin(s) have been committed. I just finished giving a rodmaking class and none of the fourstudents.neededto straighten their rods at its conclusion. The rods were straight rightout ofbindingand straight after ferruleing. The same situation happened in my lastclassalso.I rarely have to do more than a quick tweek on a rod and can only recalldoingthis once in the last two years (16+ rods). To solve the straightening problem - you may ask yourself what amI'mdoing rightand what are you doing wrong that leads to the need to straighten! To add fuel to the fire, consider this: I did not use any special rodmaking oven - just my shop's standardkitchenoven.I did not use any Stanley or Lie Nielson scraping planes.I did not use a dial caliper - except to give students confidence afterplaningthe first strip.I did not allow nodes to polute the strips.but I did maintain 60 degree angles finatically from the start.I used Shell Epon.and of course - I chopped those little bugger of nodes right out of thestrips. Now for those who are facing straightening problems give the abovesomethoughtand think through the rodbuilding system you are now using -straightening doesnot haveto be a way of rodmaking life! Chris from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Feb 23 19:26:51 1998 Subject: Re: slipping problem Robert - I assume you are talking about the rough form in which you planethefirst 60 degree angle, where you are dealing with a 60 degree angle on oneside of the strip and a 90 degree or thereabouts on the other. The trickhereis to maintain finger pressure on the strip to hold the enamel side againstthe steep side of the form. Two things that will foul you up are a bump ortwist at a node, or an excessive kink in the strip that will cause it totwistand mess up the angle. Your task here is to get the angle right, and onlythat. Long, elegant strokes of the plane are better saved for later. Work inshort sections at first, and concentrate on holding the strip steady. You may find it better to skip this groove altogether, and go immediatelyto a"V" groove of the proper size. The first strokes of the plane will be at thewrong angle, of course, but if you alternate sides of the cane every 2-3strokes you will find yourself with 60 degree angles very quickly. I likethismethod much better when dealing with narrow strips that are hard to hold. from anglport@con2.com Mon Feb 23 19:27:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA29312 for Subject: Re: slipping problem At 04:36 PM 2/23/98 -0800, you wrote:I have had a problem with my cane strip moving in the first rough form. This gives me an angle that is not centered. Anyone else experience this? I need help (obviously). Robert Clarke Robert,If you mean "rolling" as you press down on it you may be splitting too wideand planing too much. I was also afraid of splitting too narrow a strip andwas using 1/2" pieces from which I was planing 1/4" results. The canekeptflopping over and I eventually got pains in my shoulders from so muchunnecessary work. Split a little closer to the finished size and it'll fitthe form better.I hope this helps,Art from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 23 19:30:39 1998 Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:29:22 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening I saw that very thing in "The Best Of The Planing Form" and tried it out thinking I could use it for not only straightening but also to put the twist into spiral rods. I used the mantle of 8mm climbing cord as I had some lying around. It works but it's such a hasle inserting the splines into the sheath that I've shelved the idea for sometime when I can come up with way to protect the splines.The problem I found was that the tips having next to no strength will catch on the weave and as you can't see what's going on they will either penetrate the sheath causing a problem with more loosened fibers or break the cane *and* worse the glue instead of lubricating the whole works tends to create a syripy mess that makes the splines progressively harder to insert.I think the idea is a great one and maybe using something larger than 8mm would work but make sure you use nylon or polyamide and not polyester cordage.Just thinking back on it, wrap the splines in something like a roll your own cigarette rather than trying sausage stuffing would be better?Anyhow, this works in that it straightens and you can put the spiral into the rod but it isn't easy. Tony On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 Ragnarig@aol.com wrote: OK guys, this is totally notional but it might be worth submitting to thecogitations of the bretheren. What if... the section were suspended encased in some sort of braidedcord,like Orvis leader only bigger, and a weight were hung from the end of thecord? I don't know where one would find braided material of the propersizeand elasticity, but I strongly suspect that it exists. If the work were heated just enough to make the glue go plastic, mightnot thecompression forces on the section tend to equalize and allow the weighttostraighten it after a little while? Think about it whilst I go steelheading!Davy /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Feb 23 19:34:42 1998 Tue, 24 Feb 1998 09:33:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Pictures On Mon, 23 Feb 1998, Art Port wrote: Dave,I'm thinking of scrapping my Garrison binder and switching to theMilwardone. I like the way the Garrison wraps but I hate the time spent takingthetwists out of the blank! My first lack of understanding is, what providesthe tension so that the rod is uniformly compressed and the glue isdrivenout sufficiently without causing starvation? Yours is certainly a beautyand/*snip**********/ Low tech as this sounds (and is) try binding by hand first. It's not that hard and you only get as much twist as you want to put into it. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Mon Feb 23 19:44:08 1998 Subject: walmart Hank;K-mart thinks so,tooJohn Channer from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Feb 23 19:46:10 1998 Subject: Re: slipping problem I will try using my second form. Thanks Tom. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: TSmithwick@aol.com Subject: Re: slipping problemDate: Monday, February 23, 1998 5:11 PM Robert - I assume you are talking about the rough form in which youplanethefirst 60 degree angle, where you are dealing with a 60 degree angle ononeside of the strip and a 90 degree or thereabouts on the other. The trickhereis to maintain finger pressure on the strip to hold the enamel sideagainstthe steep side of the form. Two things that will foul you up are a bumportwist at a node, or an excessive kink in the strip that will cause it totwistand mess up the angle. Your task here is to get the angle right, and onlythat. Long, elegant strokes of the plane are better saved for later. Workinshort sections at first, and concentrate on holding the strip steady. You may find it better to skip this groove altogether, and go immediatelyto a"V" groove of the proper size. The first strokes of the plane will be atthewrong angle, of course, but if you alternate sides of the cane every 2- 3strokes you will find yourself with 60 degree angles very quickly. I likethismethod much better when dealing with narrow strips that are hard tohold. from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Feb 23 19:55:59 1998 Subject: Re: slipping problem I will reduce my size and maybe use the second form per Tom Smithwick'ssuggestion. I would like to get some strips to use my new oven :) Thanks, Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: slipping problemDate: Monday, February 23, 1998 5:44 PM At 04:36 PM 2/23/98 -0800, you wrote:I have had a problem with my cane strip moving in the first rough form. This gives me an angle that is not centered. Anyone else experiencethis? I need help (obviously). Robert Clarke Robert,If you mean "rolling" as you press down on it you may be splitting toowideand planing too much. I was also afraid of splitting too narrow a stripandwas using 1/2" pieces from which I was planing 1/4" results. The canekeptflopping over and I eventually got pains in my shoulders from so muchunnecessary work. Split a little closer to the finished size and it'llfitthe form better.I hope this helps,Art from d_price@global2000.net Mon Feb 23 19:56:18 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id UAA14726 for; Mon, 23 Feb 1998 20:56:03 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures Art Port wrote: Dave,I'm thinking of scrapping my Garrison binder and switching to theMilwardone. I like the way the Garrison wraps but I hate the time spent takingthetwists out of the blank! My first lack of understanding is, what providesthe tension so that the rod is uniformly compressed and the glue isdrivenout sufficiently without causing starvation? Yours is certainly a beautyanda model to strive for but I want to know what to use to take the place ofthe weights that Garry and Hoagy suggested using. I'm afraid to trustmyselfto accurately say "Yeah, that's about the right thread tension" and thenfind that I have random micrometer readings after the glue is dried.Anysuggestions? BTW, is that brass or copper piping that supports yourpulleys?Also, the Milward specs don't seem to make clear (or I'm not readingthemright), are the pulleys merely trapped on the piping (by the hose clamps)and they turn independently, or are they affixed to the pipes for somestructural reason that I haven't fathomed yet?Thanks in advance for any suggestions,ArtArt I guess the object is to get all 4 tensoiners set as close asposible to each other and set to a number like 4 lbs....I'm making aspring device that will be a scale (like for wieghting fish)with a hookor strong clip on the end to set each of the tensioners one at a time bypulling on the string through the guides....If you could do it perfectyou wouldn't have any pressure on the rod except to push it alongthrough the thing....As far as the tubes they are made from 6" x 3/4brass nipples that I found at Home Depot(about the only thing Ibought,screws,ball bearings and giudes also)and fit through a 1" holenicely(forstner-bit)...I cut the threaded ends off and turned the endwhere the pulleys are to about 7/8" then added small groves forsnap-ring clips to retain the pullies that turn freely...The pulleys aremade of solid surfacing material(Corian)that I had scraps of layingaround...the Milward specs seem to me to have pipe clamps orsomething....they also sell nice split collar retainers that wouldwork(MSC or Manhattan Supply corp. huge catalog-800-645-7270) youcolduse one on both sides of the pulley if you wanted(if you don't have alathe)......Hope this helps.....I'm starting a new job tommorro and I'min the middle of my first rod(gluing nodeless strips up)and when I get aspare couple of minutes I will do the cad thing and get drawings on mypage!!!!....They will be clear and concise(cad is one of my bettervocations)!!Dave Price P.S. MSC has verynice pulleys but alittle pricy 8.00 eachpg.2977 97' catalog from channer@frontier.net Mon Feb 23 20:05:59 1998 Subject: slipping Robert;If you have a table saw you might try the rough forms I recently made. Iwas having the same trouble, so I made some new forms by setting thebladeon my saw to 30d. and making several different grooves of differentwidthsand depths.You need to make the blade depth and fence adjustments on ascrap piece first so you get the settings right, but you want to wind upwith a series of square grooves that are at a 30 degree angle to the faceof your board. This makes a little hook on the pith side of your strip thatkeeps it fron rolling over. If I knew how to draw on this computer I coulddraw a picture that would make this cyrtal clear. I made the width of thegrooves to be slightly wider than the largest strip measurement of therough strips for tip and butt sections, then plane the pith side so it justfits in the groove. Another thing I discovered is that you can chuck a 60d.countersink bit(available from grizzly ) in a router and make a perfectgroove for your second form, both forms were much easier to make thiswaythan filing, scraping or planing and since they are cut into a single pieceof wood there are no alignment problems and the grooves are registered tothe working surface. Probably a lot of hot air about something simple, butworks for me.John Channer from dickay@alltel.net Mon Feb 23 20:16:30 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with ESMTP id AAA14728 0600 Subject: Re: To All: urac/straightening Harry,Sorry to say I don't have The Best Of the Planing Form, yet! I plan onasking for it for Father's Day, Anniversary, Birthday, or until I get it orbuy it my self. I just started getting the Planing Form the first of theyear. I had asked for a subscription for Christmas and didn't get it so Isubscribed myself. Then I got the rate wrong and had to send Ron anadditional check. However, small braided nylon rope might work. I'll have to look into itthe next time I'm at the hardware store or Walmart. Thanks Dick Fuhrman from CALucker@aol.com Mon Feb 23 20:16:34 1998 Subject: Re: Black Perfection Guides What year are you looking for? My experience is that, like Mustad hooks,Perfection Guides changed shape through the years. I may not be able to help you anyway, because all my guides are the oldbronzed ones -- no black.Chris Lucker from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Feb 23 21:07:24 1998 Subject: Re: glace cotton Don't use poly thread if you are putting it in an oven, it may melt. Find acompany that supplies the gaRMENT TRADE WITH THREAD. LOOK IN THEYELLOWPAGES. EVERY MAJOR CITY HAS ONE. jb At 14:48 21/02/98 -0700, you wrote:Guys I finally have my binder put together and am having some troublefinding theglace thread sizes Wayne recommends in his book. The only glace finishstuff at thelocal fabric store was polyester core and very thin--like regular sewingthread.Any one have a mailorder source for the bigger sizes or have a stash theycould sellme? And is polyester core okay? It seems like the real small stuff I got would be okay for tips though (itdoesn'thave a size listed on the spool). Also how about a mail order source for thread tensioners? ThanksDon D. Get your FREE, private e-mailaccount at http://www.mailcity.com James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from jczimny@dol.net Mon Feb 23 21:10:56 1998 Subject: Re: straightening But I like nodes!!Zimny. Chris Bogart wrote: To All; After listening to all the chat about straightening - something iswrong! You are trying to correct an ill after the sin(s) have beencommitted. I just finished giving a rodmaking class and none of the fourstudents. neededto straighten their rods at its conclusion. The rods were straight rightoutof bindingand straight after ferruleing. The same situation happened in my lastclassalso.I rarely have to do more than a quick tweek on a rod and can only recalldoingthis once in the last two years (16+ rods). To solve the straightening problem - you may ask yourself what amI'mdoing rightand what are you doing wrong that leads to the need to straighten! To add fuel to the fire, consider this: I did not use any special rodmaking oven - just my shop's standardkitchenoven.I did not use any Stanley or Lie Nielson scraping planes.I did not use a dial caliper - except to give students confidenceafter planingthe first strip.I did not allow nodes to polute the strips.butI did maintain 60 degree angles finatically from the start.I used Shell Epon.and of course - I chopped those little bugger of nodes right out ofthe strips. Now for those who are facing straightening problems give the abovesome thoughtand think through the rodbuilding system you are now using - straighteningdoes not haveto be a way of rodmaking life! Chris from tripp@olywa.net Mon Feb 23 21:17:35 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA17429 for ;Mon, 23 Feb 1998 19:16:22 -0800 Subject: Metal Planing Forms Where can I purchase a set of metal planing forms? Thanks! from anglport@con2.com Mon Feb 23 22:24:22 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA11632 for Subject: Re: Pictures At 08:55 PM 2/23/98 -0800, you wrote:Art Port wrote: Dave,I'm thinking of scrapping my Garrison binder and switching to theMilwardone. I like the way the Garrison wraps but I hate the time spent takingthetwists out of the blank! My first lack of understanding is, what providesthe tension so that the rod is uniformly compressed and the glue isdrivenout sufficiently without causing starvation? Yours is certainly a beautyanda model to strive for but I want to know what to use to take the placeofthe weights that Garry and Hoagy suggested using. I'm afraid to trustmyselfto accurately say "Yeah, that's about the right thread tension" and thenfind that I have random micrometer readings after the glue is dried.Anysuggestions? BTW, is that brass or copper piping that supports yourpulleys?Also, the Milward specs don't seem to make clear (or I'm not readingthemright), are the pulleys merely trapped on the piping (by the hose clamps)and they turn independently, or are they affixed to the pipes for somestructural reason that I haven't fathomed yet?Thanks in advance for any suggestions,ArtArt I guess the object is to get all 4 tensoiners set as close asposible to each other and set to a number like 4 lbs....I'm making aspring device that will be a scale (like for wieghting fish)with a hookor strong clip on the end to set each of the tensioners one at a time bypulling on the string through the guides....If you could do it perfectyou wouldn't have any pressure on the rod except to push it alongthrough the thing....As far as the tubes they are made from 6" x 3/4brass nipples that I found at Home Depot(about the only thing Ibought,screws,ball bearings and giudes also)and fit through a 1" holenicely(forstner-bit)...I cut the threaded ends off and turned the endwhere the pulleys are to about 7/8" then added small groves forsnap-ring clips to retain the pullies that turn freely...The pulleys aremade of solid surfacing material(Corian)that I had scraps of layingaround...the Milward specs seem to me to have pipe clamps orsomething....they also sell nice split collar retainers that wouldwork(MSC or Manhattan Supply corp. huge catalog-800-645-7270) youcolduse one on both sides of the pulley if you wanted(if you don't have alathe)......Hope this helps.....I'm starting a new job tommorro and I'min the middle of my first rod(gluing nodeless strips up)and when I get aspare couple of minutes I will do the cad thing and get drawings on mypage!!!!....They will be clear and concise(cad is one of my bettervocations)!!Dave Price P.S. MSC has verynice pulleys but alittle pricy 8.00 eachpg.2977 97' catalog Dave,Boy , when you answer you ANSWER! Everything you said was helpful and Ihavea much clearer idea of what I was looking at than I had ten minutes ago.I'mlucky enough to have a South Bend 10k so if I can muster up the skills Icando much of the same work you did. I'll just have to see what's around anddecide how crazy I want to get with the whole thing. CORIAN(!) you DO gofirst class don't you? I'm thinking of using maple for my wheels. I'll haveto build a jig to put the vee in the edge though; I only have a 90 deg pointrouter bit to do them with unless I decide to turn them on the wood lathe.My worry there is I don't know if I can maintain uniformity using a turningtool. I tried turning pulleys and was dissatisfied with the results; I thinkthe groove wandered due to not being able to mount the blanks solidlyenoughwith the chucking system I have available. I'll definitely check out MSC.I've been such a dabbler over the years that I've got catalogs for almostanything you could imagine in my shop. I'm headed for Home Depottomorrow tosee what they have to make the job easier (always was one for instantgratification). You can bet I'll be in touch as I progress. The Garrisonbinder used to give me fits! As soft and pliant as the cane gets with theglue on it I was always SURE I was going to break a tip while wrapping it.Thanks!Art from anglport@con2.com Mon Feb 23 22:29:03 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA11887 for Subject: Re: slipping At 05:53 PM 2/23/98, you wrote:Robert;If you have a table saw you might try the rough forms I recently made. Iwas having the same trouble, so I made some new forms by setting thebladeon my saw to 30d. and making several different grooves of differentwidthsand depths.You need to make the blade depth and fence adjustments on ascrap piece first so you get the settings right, but you want to wind upwith a series of square grooves that are at a 30 degree angle to the faceof your board. This makes a little hook on the pith side of your strip thatkeeps it fron rolling over. If I knew how to draw on this computer I coulddraw a picture that would make this cyrtal clear. I made the width of thegrooves to be slightly wider than the largest strip measurement of therough strips for tip and butt sections, then plane the pith side so it justfits in the groove. Another thing I discovered is that you can chuck a 60d.countersink bit(available from grizzly ) in a router and make a perfectgroove for your second form, both forms were much easier to make thiswaythan filing, scraping or planing and since they are cut into a single pieceof wood there are no alignment problems and the grooves are registeredtothe working surface. Probably a lot of hot air about something simple, butworks for me.John Channer John,The things you learn on this thing! I wanted to use a 60 deg router bit 15years ago and hunted around and was told I'd have to get one MADE!Needlessto say that removed its attraction from a cost effective point of view. I'vebeen getting that damn Grizzly catalog for I don't know how long and neverSAW the 60 deg bits in there. They just never registered! Thanks foranothersurprise!Art from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 24 00:29:33 1998 Subject: re:slipping Art;Glad to be of help. One thing I forgot to mention is that seeing as the60d. countersink is not designed to be a router bit, it leaves the bottomof the groove a little fuzzy. Two swipes with the point of your centerguage takes it right out. In case anyone is intersted, the countersink bitI'm referring to is in the Grizzly metalworking catalogue, page51, modelG4036, 1/4" shank, price all of $3.49. John Channer from gwr@seanet.com Tue Feb 24 01:21:37 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA12669 for; Subject: Re: Black Perfection Guides Chris, I'm guessing, but I'd say the 1960's. You are right, they have changedconsiderably in shape and quality over the years. Russ -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Black Perfection Guides What year are you looking for? My experience is that, like Mustad hooks,Perfection Guides changed shape through the years. I may not be able to help you anyway, because all my guides are the oldbronzed ones -- no black.Chris Lucker from dadl@mailcity.com Tue Feb 24 03:14:18 1998 Subject: glace cotton: my thread on thread Thanks for all the tips guys. I went ahead and ordered from Atlanta ThreadSupplysince every local upholstery/sewing store here in Dallas said "huh" when Iaskedif they carried glaced cotton thread. You'd think the employess wouldknow.. Wayne or anyone else--what is the value of using multiple thread sizesforbinding?I just ordered the smaller size and figured it will do. K.I.S.S. I always say. Oh yeah and why is it necessary to have two thread tensioners? Seems abit ofoverkill. Don D. Get your FREE, private e-mailaccount at http://www.mailcity.com from dadl@mailcity.com Tue Feb 24 03:22:00 1998 Subject: Re: Rod makers? has anyoneever tried to compile a complete list of rodmakers and the companiesthey worked for. (or maybe owned) Listed my name and a brief history. Possiblewith a cross-reference, under the company, of all the makers that workedwith that company. Going back into history as far as possible. Don Burns This would be neat, and perhaps maybe even a geanealogical (sp?) stylegraphicalrepresenatation of who worked where and at what time. Of course the bestexamplebeing all the greats that apprenticed at Leonard. Don D. Get your FREE, private e-mailaccount at http://www.mailcity.com from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 24 05:30:24 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id GAA18244 for; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:30:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures BIG BIG CLIPI'll just have to see what's around anddecide how crazy I want to get with the whole thing. CORIAN(!) you DO gofirst class don't you? I'm thinking of using maple for my wheels. I'll haveto build a jig to put the vee in the edge though; I only have a 90 deg pointrouter bit to do them with unless I decide to turn them on the woodlathe.My worry there is I don't know if I can maintain uniformity using aturningtool. I tried turning pulleys and was dissatisfied with the results; Ithinkthe groove wandered due to not being able to mount the blanks solidlyenoughwith the chucking system I have available. ANOTHER CLIP Art did you try to make wood pulleys on your metal-lathe orwood-lathe???,...I would think the metal lathe would work perfectly andmake perfect ones and use a 60 degree threading tool for the beltgrove!!!Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 24 05:45:32 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id GAA18565 for; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 06:45:21 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures Art Just alittle note about wood pulleys....Mahogany 3/4" ply-wood wouldmake more stable pulleys, you just have to be carefull when you cut thegroves on the lathe that you don't split them(delaminate) and don't useany of that self delaminating plywood from "Honerkamp" think thats howit's spelled (supplyer in the Bronx)... If I was in N.J. where myplywood is I would make them for you and send them on (takes a couple ofminutes each)..Dave Price from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 24 06:13:09 1998 Subject: Re: straightening I like nodes too.They give my rods character.GEM from plipton@sunvalley.net Tue Feb 24 07:45:19 1998 0000 (208.14.167.21) Subject: smooth it out Mike: The advice about warming your varnish, keeping the room temperature highenoughand John's brushing method all help get the finish to go on evenly. Howlong doyou wait before sanding and rubbing out the finish? If the varnish has nothadtime to cure it is hard to sand cleanly or rub out. Steel wool, even 4/0,maynotbe the best way to get brush marks off because a soft pad of wool tends torollover the edges. I am trying to make my edges crisp and well defined. I usewoodpieces from 1 inch wide down to popsicle sticks wrapped with 1500 gritpaper toremove drips or small dust particles. That leaves a coarse surface thatneedsanother finish coat. If you are rubbing out your final finish coat, try rubbing compounds fromanautomotive finish house. I like the Meguiars brand but others would do justaswell. They come in many different "grits" but they are not graded like sandpaper.They are called polishing compound, swirl remover, cutting, glazing andothercreative names. A fellow that works there helped point me to the grades Ineeded.Once you decide on what works for you, it is easy to get more. I have used George Maurer's secret sauces. He was offering four differentgradesor "grits". They work well but are three times the price of products likeMeguiars. If you only use it for rod building, a bottle of each might be alifetime supply. I use the compounds to rub out other finishes so it isconvenientto be able to buy the same grade or "grit" as I need it. As DrBamboo pointsout,pumice and rottenstone are traditional abrasives but messy to use. Thesyntheticabrasives comes in more grits, are more consistent in size and cut faster. Phil~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Philip LiptonPO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726- 9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208-726- 0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Feb 24 08:02:10 1998 Subject: Re: fisheye In a message dated 98-02-23 15:07:46 EST, you write: Ken - Had some contamination problems with my 1st dip tube attempt. Remade itand epoxied the parts together vs. soldering - it is a low stress item so noreason not to do so. Also, mixed a slurry of epoxy with laquer thinner(advice from Nyatex), sloshed it around in the tube, popped it into thecuringoven for a few minutes for a protective inside finish to the tube. Noproblems since. Regards,RTyree from dhaftel@att.com Tue Feb 24 08:28:57 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 09:30:00-0500 Subject: RE: slipping 4.0.995.52 Hey John, Does Grizzly have a web site, or a phone number to request a catalog??? Dennis HaftelST-COE/APT(732) 805-2714dhaftel@att.com -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@frontier.net]Sent: Monday, February 23, 1998 5:15 PM Subject: re:slipping Art;Glad to be of help. One thing I forgot to mention is that seeing as the60d. countersink is not designed to be a router bit, it leaves the bottomof the groove a little fuzzy. Two swipes with the point of your centerguage takes it right out. In case anyone is intersted, the countersink bitI'm referring to is in the Grizzly metalworking catalogue, page51, modelG4036, 1/4" shank, price all of $3.49. John Channer from rmoon@ida.net Tue Feb 24 08:51:45 1998 Subject: Re: slipping Sears used to sell a combination 60 degree and 30 degree router bit. Idon't know if they still do Ralph from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 24 09:15:38 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Phil;Hello. Have tried to find your address without success.Now I have it.Hopethingsare going well in Sun Valley. George from lblan@provide.net Tue Feb 24 10:00:14 1998 Subject: Re: re:slipping Amana and Whiteside (Woodcrafters) both make 60 degree router bits.They cutclean right to the bottom of the groove! -----Original Message----- Subject: re:slipping Art;Glad to be of help. One thing I forgot to mention is that seeing as the60d. countersink is not designed to be a router bit, it leaves the bottomof the groove a little fuzzy. Two swipes with the point of your centerguage takes it right out. In case anyone is intersted, the countersink bitI'm referring to is in the Grizzly metalworking catalogue, page51, modelG4036, 1/4" shank, price all of $3.49. from skyboss@ibm.net Tue Feb 24 10:56:06 1998 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id QAA121686 for; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 16:56:02 GMT Subject: Black Perfection Snake Guides Source boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00E6_01BD408E.B5D1C840" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01BD408E.B5D1C840 Here is what I belive to be a reliable source for black Perfection snakeguides. You can order black Perfection snake guides from this address. http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides/perfec/perfe=c.htm?L+mct+pukp9478+888298213 http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides/guides.htm?E=+mct 2/0 $0.791/0 $0.791 $0.793 $0.894 $0.895 $0.896 $0.89 Merrick Tackle, Inc.7349 Route 28 HC2,Shandaken, New York, 12480, USA.Telephone: 1-914-688-2216E-mail: rroy@internetMCI.COM Ken Holder ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01BD408E.B5D1C840 snakeguides. address.http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides=/perfec/perfec.htm?L+mct+pukp9478+888298213http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides= $0.89Merrick = Inc.7349 Route 28 HC2,Shandaken, New York, 12480, = 1-914-688-2216E-mail: rroy@internetMCI.COM= Holder ------=_NextPart_000_00E6_01BD408E.B5D1C840-- from harry37@epix.net Tue Feb 24 11:12:12 1998 MAA03464 Subject: Re: slipping Haftel, Dennis, CT wrote: Hey John, Does Grizzly have a web site, or a phone number to request a catalog??? Dennis HaftelST-COE/APT(732) 805-2714dhaftel@att.com -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@frontier.net]Sent: Monday, February 23, 1998 5:15 PM Subject: re:slipping Art;Glad to be of help. One thing I forgot to mention is that seeing as the60d. countersink is not designed to be a router bit, it leaves the bottomof the groove a little fuzzy. Two swipes with the point of your centerguage takes it right out. In case anyone is intersted, the countersink bitI'm referring to is in the Grizzly metalworking catalogue, page51,modelG4036, 1/4" shank, price all of $3.49.John Channer John, Grizzly's URL: http://grizzlyimports.com Greg from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 24 11:24:34 1998 Subject: Twisted Blanks Okay, time for me to confess. I use a Garrison typebinder, and twists from glue up are practically nonexistent in my blanks. The biggest reason for this isthe operator. You have to know how to use your machine. But, there are other things that help. Support your blankon both sides end to end. Wayne C. shows how to do thisin his video. Leave the masking tape on. Leaving the masking tape onhelps in keeping twists out of your blank. It isn't a cure-all,because a lot of times the glue squeezes up under thetape and unsticks it, but if your tape does stay stuckit holds the splines straight. My latest project is a two weight (actually I think it's goingto turn out to be a three weight, just from the feel of the blank),but try binding those really thin splines without getting any twists.On the tip section, I put a thin strip of tape every 2 inches. For the blank to twist the tape has to let go of at least three splines. One caution - make sure the blank is straight when you put the tape on. It does make it harder to clean up the blank, you have pieces of tape glued on, but they scrape off fairly easily. Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 24 11:39:48 1998 Subject: Black Perfection Snake Guides Source RO>Here is what I belive to be a reliable source for black Perfection snakeRO>guides. RO>You can order black Perfection snake guides from this address. RO>http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides/perfec/perfec.hRO>tm?L+mct+pukp9478+888298213 RO>http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides/guides.htm?E+mcRO>t RO>2/0 $0.79RO>1/0 $0.79RO>1 $0.79RO>3 $0.89RO>4 $0.89RO>5 $0.89RO>6 $0.89 RO>Merrick Tackle, Inc.RO>7349 Route 28 HC2,RO>Shandaken, New York, 12480, USA.RO>Telephone: 1-914-688-2216RO>E-mail: rroy@internetMCI.COM RO>Ken Holder Ken, I can't get the url to load is it correct? Don Burns from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Feb 24 11:43:32 1998 0500 Subject: Rodmaking Classes I am in the process of gathering the tools and knowledge to try my first rod, but I haven't ruled out taking a class either.Does anyone have any recommendations on rodmaking classes in the central to Northern New Jersey area? I do know of at least one (which I am considering) but was wondering if anyone has had any direct experience with any. Feel free to send me email at andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com if the information you have is inappropriate from Fishstink@aol.com Tue Feb 24 11:46:40 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Dear Phil,I leave the varnish to cure for 24 hours before touching it. And you areright, the 4/0 steel wool does take the finish off the edges first. I wasthinking of something like a popsicle stick and fine wet/dry paper. Theautomotive polishes seem to be the lists concurance as to the polishingend ofthis problem and am going to the supply house today to see what they haveavailable. Thanks for all the help!Mike Shay from gwr@seanet.com Tue Feb 24 11:52:09 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA29468 for; Subject: Re: Black Perfection Snake Guides Source boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD4109.D0A30E60" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD4109.D0A30E60 Thanks for the information. Like Don, I tried to connect with =the URL you gave, but got a "bad connection" notice. I was able to get = Russ ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD4109.D0A30E60 = Russ ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD4109.D0A30E60-- from skyboss@ibm.net Tue Feb 24 12:02:11 1998 out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA98674 for; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:01:56 GMT Subject: Re: Black Perfection Snake Guides Source Try this URL for the home page to order Perfection Snake Guides. It is likely that your mail program wrapped the text of the URL, removethe">" and then try again. Ken Holder http://www.fishdoc.com/ -----Original Message----- Subject: Black Perfection Snake Guides Source RO>Here is what I belive to be a reliable source for black PerfectionsnakeRO>guides. RO>You can order black Perfection snake guides from this address. RO>http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides/perfec/perfec.hRO>tm?L+mct+pukp9478+888298213 RO>http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides/guides.htm?E+mcRO>t RO>2/0 $0.79RO>1/0 $0.79RO>1 $0.79RO>3 $0.89RO>4 $0.89RO>5 $0.89RO>6 $0.89 RO>Merrick Tackle, Inc.RO>7349 Route 28 HC2,RO>Shandaken, New York, 12480, USA.RO>Telephone: 1-914-688-2216RO>E-mail: rroy@internetMCI.COM RO>Ken Holder Ken, I can't get the url to load is it correct? Don Burns from DrBamboo@aol.com Tue Feb 24 12:25:39 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmaking Classes Andy;I am in eastern Pa. I give workshops and classes.One on one.Give me acallat my e-mail address.DrBamboo@aol.com George Sweetwater Rods from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 24 12:42:25 1998 Subject: Re: Black Perfection Snake Guides Source RO>Try this URL for the home page to order Perfection Snake Guides. RO>It is likely that your mail program wrapped the text of the URL, removetheRO>">" and then try again. RO>>RO>>RO>Merrick Tackle, Inc.RO>>RO>7349 Route 28 HC2,RO>>RO>Shandaken, New York, 12480, USA.RO>>RO>Telephone: 1-914- 688-2216RO>>RO>E-mail: rroy@internetMCI.COM Ken, I handloaded the address and got it to work. Thanks. Is this Manhatten Tackle - Merrick Tackle or are both the same? Don Burns from tom@cet-inc.com Tue Feb 24 12:54:12 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Rodmaking Classes I highly recommend the instruction offered by George Maurer nearLenhartsville, PA. I drove about an hour to George's one afternoon per week I appreciate it even more when I see what many others go through intryingto get started. If you can afford this type of instruction from George orsomeone like him, it really lets you hit the ground running. I started myclass with George last March. I'm now working on my tenth rod. Since theclass George and I keep in touch, he is a great resource. Thanks to George and others like him for sharing their knowledge. Tom Whittle---------- Subject: Rodmaking Classes but was wondering if anyone has had any direct experience with any. Feel free to send me email at andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com if the information you have is inappropriate from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Tue Feb 24 13:06:01 1998 Subject: RE: Rodmaking Classes Anyone know of rodmaking classes in the San Francisco Bay area? Also,is there anyone out there on the list in the S.F. area? -----Original Message-----From: Tom [SMTP:tom@cet-inc.com]Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Rodmaking Classes I highly recommend the instruction offered by George Maurer nearLenhartsville, PA. I drove about an hour to George's oneafternoon per week ever spent.I appreciate it even more when I see what many others go throughin tryingto get started. If you can afford this type of instruction fromGeorge orsomeone like him, it really lets you hit the ground running. Istarted myclass with George last March. I'm now working on my tenth rod.Since theclass George and I keep in touch, he is a great resource. Thanks to George and others like him for sharing theirknowledge. Tom Whittle----------From: andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Subject: Rodmaking ClassesDate: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:01:47 -0500 but was wondering if anyone has had any direct experience with any. Feel free to send me email at andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com if the information you have isinappropriate from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Tue Feb 24 13:34:26 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Tue, 24 Feb 98 14:33:44 EST Subject: Re: Pictures Art, Thanks for asking all the right questions which then lead to all theinteresting replies. One mistake I made with my Milward binder was tousetoo small a dia. copper tubing. I used 1/2". It's fine for binding gluedsections. For binding rough planned sections for heat treating, it's toonarrow (5/8" would be perfect). At the time I made my pullies, I didn't have a lathe so I rough cutsections of oak, drilled a 1/2 hole about in the center, mounted these onmy elec. grinder, used sandpaper on a block to cut perfect circles, thentook a round file, broke off the tip, and used the rough edge to form agroove for the belt. The real trick with this binder is to get thetensioners equalized and stable in their settings. --Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 13:43:57 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25236 for Subject: re:slipping At 10:15 PM 2/23/98, you wrote:Art;Glad to be of help. One thing I forgot to mention is that seeing as the60d. countersink is not designed to be a router bit, it leaves the bottomof the groove a little fuzzy. Two swipes with the point of your centerguage takes it right out. In case anyone is intersted, the countersink bitI'm referring to is in the Grizzly metalworking catalogue, page51, modelG4036, 1/4" shank, price all of $3.49. John Channer John,I never would have noticed it if it's billed as a countersink! Shows hownarrowly focussed a person can be. The price is very attractive too. I betthe shipping charges double it! I guess you can put anything with a 1/4 "shank in one o' them suckers, huh? And I like to think of myself as beingquick on my feet....Oh well,Art from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 14:22:50 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03150 for Subject: Re: Pictures At 06:30 AM 2/24/98 -0800, you wrote:BIG BIG CLIPI'll just have to see what's around and ANOTHER CLIP Art did you try to make wood pulleys on your metal-lathe orwood-lathe???,...I would think the metal lathe would work perfectly andmake perfect ones and use a 60 degree threading tool for the beltgrove!!!Dave Price Dave,Yeah, I never thought of using the 10k for wood. Somewhere I was ledto believe that the metal lathes were too slow to work wood. You mean Icanuse a carbide thread cutter on the maple and nothing will screw up? Iguessthat means I've gotta use that face plate that I got with the lathe butnever even affixed to the head! Any suggestions of the order of ops? Drillthe ctr hole, use that to ctr the outer cut? Or cut it round, trim itperfect, and then bore out the center hole? The first sounds better to me.I've got to learn a lot of new techniques if I'm mounting disks that size onthe 10k. Prior to this I used it merely for turning small parts,thread-cutting and ferrule station turning.BTW if I understand the geometry of the Milward, the blank neverrotates, right? I used to get most of my twist and minibends from the rodspinning as it exited the binder. I even went so far as to use 1/2"electrical conduit as lead-ins and lead-outs (4 ft each) to suppress theability of the glue-wet blank to whip around! Can there still be anypurposeto using them on yours? If the rod comes out without whipping that'sgoingto save an AWFUL lot of time after the glue dries.Until last year I had a friend, 20 years my senior, whom I couldbounce these ideas off and we'd come up with solutions to each others'posers. He unfortunately passed away and I consider myself lucky as allhellto have this group to use as a sounding board. The only problem is that I'mundoubtedly going to ask some REAL dumb ones and you guys won't knowme wellenough to forgive the stupidity in favor of all the other good points onecan make in person.Maybe I had better PLAN on attending one of theget-togethers just to show that I'm all there! Thanks for the patience and the help,Art from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 14:25:09 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA03325 for Subject: Re: Pictures At 06:45 AM 2/24/98 -0800, you wrote:Art Just alittle note about wood pulleys....Mahogany 3/4" ply-wood wouldmake more stable pulleys, you just have to be carefull when you cut thegroves on the lathe that you don't split them(delaminate) and don't useany of that self delaminating plywood from "Honerkamp" think thats howit's spelled (supplyer in the Bronx)... If I was in N.J. where myplywood is I would make them for you and send them on (takes a couple ofminutes each)..Dave Price Dave, Looks like I'm going to be thanking you a LOT!Thanks again,Art> from jfoster@gte.net Tue Feb 24 14:57:40 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures Art before you give up on your garrison, look at chris's binder faq on thefaq page..pay particular attention to the in/outfeed arms on the firstpicture, they have a lot to do with prohibiting torque. Jerry from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 15:00:11 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA06696 for Subject: re:slipping At 09:05 AM 2/24/98 -0500, you wrote:Amana and Whiteside (Woodcrafters) both make 60 degree router bits.They cutclean right to the bottom of the groove! -----Original Message-----From: john channer Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 4:36 AMSubject: re:slipping Art;Glad to be of help. One thing I forgot to mention is that seeing as the60d. countersink is not designed to be a router bit, it leaves the bottomof the groove a little fuzzy. Two swipes with the point of your centerguage takes it right out. In case anyone is intersted, the countersink bitI'm referring to is in the Grizzly metalworking catalogue, page51, modelG4036, 1/4" shank, price all of $3.49. Larry,Thanks,That sounds even more enticing than the countersink!Art from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Feb 24 15:06:34 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures Art,The in/out support is what did the trick for me also.Gary At 02:56 PM 2/24/98 -0500, you wrote:Art before you give up on your garrison, look at chris's binder faq on thefaq page..pay particular attention to the in/outfeed arms on the firstpicture, they have a lot to do with prohibiting torque. Jerry from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue Feb 24 15:22:32 1998 Subject: Re: slipping problem TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Another trick is to have a "first cut" planing form that holds the squareedge.I use this approach and a Makita power plane for the rough planing. from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 15:24:19 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA09510 for Subject: Re: Black Perfection Snake Guides Source At 10:01 AM 2/24/98 -0800, you wrote:Try this URL for the home page to order Perfection Snake Guides. It is likely that your mail program wrapped the text of the URL, removethe">" and then try again. Ken Holder http://www.fishdoc.com/ Ken,Thanks so much! I never knew why ZDNet said I might have to paste theURLsthey gave me into the address "piecemeal". You solved a major problem forme. Now I know where the "piece" ends and the "meal" begins!!!Art -----Original Message-----From: flyfisher@cmix.com Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 9:41 AMSubject: Black Perfection Snake Guides Source RO>Here is what I belive to be a reliable source for black PerfectionsnakeRO>guides. RO>You can order black Perfection snake guides from this address. RO>http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides/perfec/perfec.hRO>tm?L+mct+pukp9478+888298213 RO>http://fishdoc.com/cgi- local/SoftCart.exe/mct/rodbldg/guides/guides.htm?E+mcRO>t RO>2/0 $0.79RO>1/0 $0.79RO>1 $0.79RO>3 $0.89RO>4 $0.89RO>5 $0.89RO>6 $0.89 RO>Merrick Tackle, Inc.RO>7349 Route 28 HC2,RO>Shandaken, New York, 12480, USA.RO>Telephone: 1-914-688-2216RO>E-mail: rroy@internetMCI.COM RO>Ken Holder Ken, I can't get the url to load is it correct? Don Burns from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 15:49:23 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA11607 for Subject: Re: Pictures At 03:43 PM 2/24/98, you wrote:Art, Thanks for asking all the right questions which then lead to all theinteresting replies. One mistake I made with my Milward binder was tousetoo small a dia. copper tubing. I used 1/2". It's fine for binding gluedsections. For binding rough planned sections for heat treating, it's toonarrow (5/8" would be perfect). At the time I made my pullies, I didn't have a lathe so I rough cutsections of oak, drilled a 1/2 hole about in the center, mounted these onmy elec. grinder, used sandpaper on a block to cut perfect circles, thentook a round file, broke off the tip, and used the rough edge to form agroove for the belt. The real trick with this binder is to get thetensioners equalized and stable in their settings. --Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 Bob,Thanks for the advice. It sounds like you and I are on the same wavelength.Some details matter and some don't! I never had a problem with the 1/2"being too small but I took Hoagy's advice extremely seriously andcarefullyplaned my sections to : 10 or 15% oversize for the butts and 25% oversize post but...) that as long as they're all the same dimension it doesn'tmatter HOW close to spec they are when you bind them for heat-treating (although I guess the closer the better since the planing of baked cane isapparently more work than raw--I really can't remember, I just rememberthebook saying so).I'm was trying to decide between a bandsaw, a jigsaw, or the lathes You certainly offered another perspective with the grinder!I'm thinking of cutting the cost by mounting the spools on 1/4 X 20bolts with polished washers (top and bottom), cone springs and doublenutsto ensure proper, unwavering, tension, waddya think? I had such GREATsuccess with a set of Singer tensioners (expensivo!) that I wound up usingasimilar (screw with nut) device on my Garrison binder! It seemed to workbetter that the accepted stuff and was a helluva lot cheaper (however theGarrison has the weights to keep the blank compressed if the threaddoesn'thave exactly the right tension-- not a safety net in the Milward binder)!Any thoughts on the matter?Art from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 15:56:41 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA12126 for Subject: Re: Pictures At 02:56 PM 2/24/98 -0500, you wrote:Art before you give up on your garrison, look at chris's binder faq on thefaq page..pay particular attention to the in/outfeed arms on the firstpicture, they have a lot to do with prohibiting torque. Jerry Jerry,Thanks. I downloaded and printed it but haven't read it as carefully as Iplan to in the future. I'll pay particular attention to those details now!This group is so fertile, I am still info-gathering and haven't begun fullyprocessing yet.I'm sure others have showered you with praise in the past, but let me addmythanks for a Herculean job well-done. Without this group I never wouldhavebegun to consider getting back to planing. Oh great, come the groans of theguys who are selling, but I'm never going to be a threat to anyone; I'm toolaid back and not a good merchandiser. I'll just churn 'em out as I getasked to.Art from tripp@olywa.net Tue Feb 24 16:10:37 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA18041 for ;Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:09:22 -0800 Subject: Planing form Hello All! I am just starting to learn the craft, and acquire/build the requiredtools. While I have a fair amount of resources, and time, I do not havethe equipment (or inclination) to construct a metal planing form. I ammaking a wooden "roughing" form, but would appreciate any info on where Icould get a metal form. Thanks in advance, Mark A. Tripptripp@olywa.net from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Feb 24 16:30:48 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA067149287; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 14:28:07 -0800 Subject: RE: Planing Forms Try the Rodmakes webpage http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.html There is a lot of sources listed for supplies including the planing forms Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from gwr@seanet.com Tue Feb 24 16:39:30 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23835 for; Subject: Re: Planing form Mark, Though I've been building plastic rods for a while, I too am juststarting with cane. A few weeks ago I bought a form from Jeff Wagner.Expensive, yes, but worth every penny. It is over six feet long (my father,a gear chucking sort, already wants a one-piece spinning rod), it isperfectly straight, almost a mirror polish right out of the box, issupposedly accurate to within 3/10,000 of an inch. No extra 0 there bytheway, they are a precise set of forms. Push pull hex head adjustments at 5"stations. Bevel slope 1/1000 per inch. Price $850.00. Call Jeff at (216)845-4415 for more info. He's a busy fellow though, so please don't bughimunless you're fairly serious in your inquiry. I am not connected with himin any way, except as a happy customer. Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rodsgwr@seanet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Planing form Hello All! I am just starting to learn the craft, and acquire/build the requiredtools. While I have a fair amount of resources, and time, I do not havethe equipment (or inclination) to construct a metal planing form. I ammaking a wooden "roughing" form, but would appreciate any info on whereIcould get a metal form. Thanks in advance, Mark A. Tripptripp@olywa.net from Troutworld@aol.com Tue Feb 24 16:41:09 1998 Subject: best planing forms? could anyone please tell me who has the best planing forms for under $500? Idon't want nor do I have the time to be tuning or tweaking ! Being new tothisart I want to buy the best product for the money and I am a little confusedabout what is good and not so good ! Also do any of the planing forms comewith a guarantee, that they are right the first time you use them? from rod@visi.net Tue Feb 24 17:24:45 1998 mail4.visi.net(8.8.8/8.8.5) with ESMTP id SAA07676 for ;Tue, 24 Subject: Re: smooth it out Mike, I made a really effective dip system out of a piece of PVC pipe, a funneland barbecue spit motor. A 1/8 in. dowel on the motor makes it so that ittakes about 10 minutes per ft to withdraw the rod. Works great. Just myinput.Ray ----------From: Fishstink@aol.com Subject: smooth it outDate: Sunday, February 22, 1998 2:54 PM Hi everyone, I'm new to list, so if this has been covered a zilliontimes, myapologies. Does anyone have a quick fix for a rubbing compound to rub outbrush marks ( sorry, I don't have a dipping tank) from varnishing.Everytime Iuse 4/0 steel wool, too much comes off and I have to revarnish. Lookingforsomething REALLY mild. Rottenstone, toothpaste...anything.Mike Shay from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 24 17:26:27 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id SAA06980 for; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:26:22 -0500 Subject: Re: Pictures AYeah, I never thought of using the 10k for wood. Somewhere I wasledto believe that the metal lathes were too slow to work wood. You mean Icanuse a carbide thread cutter on the maple and nothing will screw up? Iguess ...............Yes they work well and a regular hi-speed steel bit iswhat I used (60 deg.)Alot of carbide lathe tools aren't sharp enough forwood unless you work them yourself...........my opinion..... that means I've gotta use that face plate that I got with the lathe butnever even affixed to the head! Any suggestions of the order of ops? Drillthe ctr hole, use that to ctr the outer cut? Or cut it round, trim itperfect, and then bore out the center hole? The first sounds better to me......clip..... ........To start I would rough cut the piece to shape(slightlyoversized) and drill a half inch hole in the center.....Then put a goodsize face plate on (close to or larger than the dia. of the pulley)holdthe piece up against the face plate with the tailstock with a livecenter in it( use some pressure on it , if it loosens up it will just stop rotatingif the tool is agianst it if not you will hear it flopping a little)andturn the outside profile....Then mount in the 3 jaw chuck to bore the inside diam that you require......... BTW if I understand the geometry of the Milward, the blank neverrotates, right? ........This is correct....it may want to if the tension devices aren'tset properly..... CLIP I plan on putting a tray or sleave the brass tubes with a soft plastictube that would come almost to the center where the binding takes placeto keep glue drips off the thread bobbins.....I was planning on havingthe bobbins on the other side of the pulleys so the glue couldn't dripon them but roughed the wood parts out in NJ when I was down there acouple of weeks ago and made the center beam to short...Oh well.....Hope this helps!!!!!!Dave Price "http://www.members.global2000.net/~d_price" from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Feb 24 17:45:01 1998 SAA17381;Tue, 24 Feb 1998 18:44:37 -0500 Subject: Re: slipping problem RobertThis is a technique problem - you are not keeping control of the strip. Chris On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:36:25 -0800, Robert Clarke wrote: I have had a problem with my cane strip moving in the first rough form. This gives me an angle that is not centered. Anyone else experience this? I need help (obviously). Robert Clarke from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 24 17:49:51 1998 Subject: Re: straightening I like nodes, too. They keep me humble. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 24 17:53:48 1998 Subject: Re: Pictures Art- To turn a V in the pulley edge use the corner of a square-edge scraperor (better yet) grind a scraper with the profile you want out of somescrap steel. It won't hold an edge forever, but you don't care for acouple of pulleys. Brian from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 17:54:50 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA21272 for Subject: Re: best planing forms? At 05:38 PM 2/24/98 EST, you wrote:could anyone please tell me who has the best planing forms for under$500 ? Idon't want nor do I have the time to be tuning or tweaking ! Being new tothisart I want to buy the best product for the money and I am a littleconfusedabout what is good and not so good ! Also do any of the planing formscomewith a guarantee, that they are right the first time you use them? Dear "TW",See the previous post re the Rodmakers' Page and Colorado Bootstrap. Asfaras the guarantee goes, I don't think you'll get one since you seem to thinkthey come pre-set. YOU do all the setting. The forms merely need to be flatand predictably grooved. The cane conforms to the depths you put into theforms using your own micrometer/ depthmeter and socket/allen wrench.I'msure the guys who mill them will promise that the forms have the ABILITYtotake and hold your adjustments, but ain't nobody goin' to warranty yourability to set them or plane properly! Good luck (and keep asking questions;it'll all come together with the base of knowledge available to you here).Art from Fishstink@aol.com Tue Feb 24 18:01:34 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Ray,You must have invaded my sleep period. I too was thinking of PVC, but Iwasgoing to use the motor off of my old Flex-Coat turner at 3 rpm's and withasmall dowel I thought it would pull a rod section up slowly enough. Theonlything I wasn't sure of was if the varnish would have any effect on the PVC,such as softening or contamination. I take it you hav'nt had this problem?Thanks for the reinforcement, and thanks to all for their suggestions.Mike Shay from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 18:30:19 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA24542 for Subject: Re: smooth it out At 06:58 PM 2/24/98 EST, you wrote:Ray,You must have invaded my sleep period. I too was thinking of PVC, but Iwasgoing to use the motor off of my old Flex-Coat turner at 3 rpm's and withasmall dowel I thought it would pull a rod section up slowly enough. Theonlything I wasn't sure of was if the varnish would have any effect on thePVC,such as softening or contamination. I take it you hav'nt had this problem?Thanks for the reinforcement, and thanks to all for their suggestions.Mike Shay Mike,I've been using a PVC arrangement and even storing my (solventbased) Varnish in it for years.I have a screw cap fitting for the top.Never had a lick of problem. I was talking to Hoagy Carmichael one timeandmentioned thet I wasn't happy with the way my rotisserie motor lifted therod . He said he found he got the same results by just dipping the rod inthe tube and yanking it out by hand! I tried it and found essentially thesame thing to be true. My only problem with finishing was that I hung themthin-end down so that as the varnish drained off it wouldn't thin out andleave runs (tears) on the thicker sections of cane. The down side of that isthat the tips wound up so thick with varnish that they were almost roundandI think it affected the action to some extent. That of course had absolutelyNOTHING with the PVC piping though. The next rods I make, I think I'll dipthem before the fittings go on and then maybe even wipe them lightlybeforehanging.That way the wraps and snakes can't act as reservoirs , releasingsmall quantities of varnish over time while drying and thickening thedownside ends of the rods. I think I used 2" ID PVC (I'm not in my shopright now and the tube is high between the joists down there, quietlyholding my varnish for when I start again) and was AMAZED at the amountoffluid it held when I first filled it!Just some food for thought, I hope,Art from Fishstink@aol.com Tue Feb 24 18:47:51 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Thanks Art... I needed that. You just pulled the rod sections out by hand?Mike from anglport@con2.com Tue Feb 24 19:14:10 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA27796 for Subject: Re: smooth it out At 07:44 PM 2/24/98 EST, you wrote:Thanks Art... I needed that. You just pulled the rod sections out by hand?Mike You got it! Just yanked 'em out and hung 'em in the heat box (anexaggeration since it consisted of a narrow 4 X 4 X 50" box with a 100wbulbin the bottom). It all depends on what you get used to. I just heard fromour friend "down- under" (should that be capitalized?) that I should trywrapping the sections- to-be-glued by hand and I shuddered at the thought,but who am I to say; maybe it would work better than all the binders weuseif you develop the right technique!Finger cots unite! You have nothing to lose but your digits!Art from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Tue Feb 24 19:17:30 1998 mailfep3-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Fisheyes type="54455854"; All: Thanks for the comments on 'fisheyes' -- so much food for thought ! But, at least now I have a some direction to proceed to find the causeand hopefully a cure. Between some type of contamination, bubbles , orbad solvent, I'm sure there's a logical explanation in there somewhere. Your comments are appreciated. Thanks again ! Joe LovertiLoverti Custom Cane Rods http://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Feb 24 19:25:50 1998 Subject: Re: slipping problem I agree. Part of my problem is I am doing this at late hours (when I gettime), and my patience is rather thin at that point. I did take Tom andArt's suggestions, and I worked a test piece last night with much moresuccess. I have some newly split pieces to play with tonight. Thankseveryone. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Chris Bogart Subject: Re: slipping problemDate: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 3:45 PM RobertThis is a technique problem - you are not keeping control of thestrip. Chris On Mon, 23 Feb 1998 16:36:25 -0800, Robert Clarke wrote: I have had a problem with my cane strip moving in the first rough form. This gives me an angle that is not centered. Anyone else experiencethis? I need help (obviously). Robert Clarke from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Feb 24 19:28:29 1998 Subject: magazine OK, not to beat a dead horse. Is there anyone who still has not receivedtheir cane magazine (except for me)? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 24 19:36:16 1998 Subject: fuzzies on silk wraps I need some good advice.I'm finishing a rod with Southerland Wells High Gloss Tung Oil (a wipingvarnish, really) and while I really like the finish, I don't think itwill work for the wraps, so am using a spar varnish over them. My problem is that the silk thread I'm using (Angler's Workshop) hasreally got a fuzzy problem. I'm tensioning the spools, not the thread,and didn't notice the problem until the second coat of varnish was on(still wet.) Any ideas on how to deal with this now that it's here, andhow to avoid it in the future?? Brian from d_price@global2000.net Tue Feb 24 19:38:50 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id UAA15047 for; Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:38:47 -0500 Subject: Re: magazine Robert Clarke wrote: OK, not to beat a dead horse. Is there anyone who still has not receivedtheir cane magazine (except for me)? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Robert not to make you feel bad but the guy at the Orvis shop up heregave me mine for free last week...:-)Dave Price from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 24 19:51:09 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out I remember when I was a kid my dad used to polish things with cigaretteashesmade into a paste like you would use rottenstone. He said it was not asabrasive as other things and it did a fine job on his gold pocket watches.Though it is messy like rottenstone and other such things. another noteusingrottenstone with a light oil instead of water gives a different result inthegloss of finish.Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 24 19:57:15 1998 Subject: RE:fuzzies on silk wraps RO>My problem is that the silk thread I'm using (Angler's Workshop) hasRO>really got a fuzzy problem. I'm tensioning the spools, not the thread,RO>and didn't notice the problem until the second coat of varnish was onRO>(still wet.) Any ideas on how to deal with this now that it's here, andRO>how to avoid it in the future?? Brian, Did you flame the wraps? If not, then you should. Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 24 19:57:18 1998 Subject: Re: magazine Robert,I just got off the phone with Mark Metcalf (7:45 Eastern time) and he toldmethat all magazines have been sent and that everyones magazine that wasdestroyed (as mine was) have been mailed or will be mailed by Thursday atthelatest. If you haven't received it by Monday next I would call him as thatiswhat he told me to do if I didn't have mine by Friday this week. I will callhim Monday night as I am going to Tenn. tomorrow to fish the tail waters . Bret from gwr@seanet.com Tue Feb 24 20:00:48 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06421 for; Subject: Re: fuzzies on silk wraps Brian, If you've got steady hands, take a new exacto blade and gently slice offeach fuzzy knob. This could take a while. Then gently buff the varnishwith fine steel wool (or whatever you prefer) and apply another coat ofspar. In the future, once your wraps are in place, quickly singe off the fuzzieswith an alcohol lamp. Practice on a dowel if you haven't done this. Youwant to kill the fuzzies without scorching the thread, or worse, the rod.Burnish the singed wraps and then apply varnish or color preserver. Good luck, Russ GoodingGolden Witch Rods -----Original Message----- Subject: fuzzies on silk wraps I need some good advice.I'm finishing a rod with Southerland Wells High Gloss Tung Oil (a wipingvarnish, really) and while I really like the finish, I don't think itwill work for the wraps, so am using a spar varnish over them. My problem is that the silk thread I'm using (Angler's Workshop) hasreally got a fuzzy problem. I'm tensioning the spools, not the thread,and didn't notice the problem until the second coat of varnish was on(still wet.) Any ideas on how to deal with this now that it's here, andhow to avoid it in the future?? Brian from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Feb 24 20:03:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: slipping problem Robert,Tom's advice is probably the best but one of your problems might be thatthe inner part of the strip is protruding beyond the enamel as you lookstraight down on the strip-this will kick yhe enamel side away from thesteepside of the form and give you a more acute angle than 60 deg.Just my .02.Regards,Hank. from gwr@seanet.com Tue Feb 24 20:07:33 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA06767 for; Subject: Re: magazine Robert, I just got my copy yesterday. As a first effort, it's worth the read,but they've still got a long way to go before they have a publication thatmatches the quality of their subject matter. The Powell rodcompany/familycertainly got their money's worth out of it. Russ -----Original Message----- Subject: magazine OK, not to beat a dead horse. Is there anyone who still has not receivedtheir cane magazine (except for me)? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 24 20:10:01 1998 Subject: Re: Re: smooth it out Mike,the solvents in varnishes aren't strong enough to attack pvc pipe. Most ofthem are of the mineral spirits type solvents.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 24 20:14:54 1998 Subject: Varnish application When I put a finish on one of the guns I build I rub the finish in by hand, Ihave also done this on many cane rods in the past with great results. Iwasjust looking at an old #10 Heddon that i had refinished back in 1975 and iremembered at that time that, that is how I used to applied my finish torods. I also use a little sanding block to sand down the blanks in betweencoats. Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Feb 24 20:21:12 1998 Subject: Petrie Special I have a Heddon Rod marked Petrie Special. 9 ft. 2 1/2 ferrules does any1know anything about this rod. Used to be I could just go to Bernard Hillsrodshop and get info on all my Heddons but he has passed on and so has all theknowledge he had from running Heddons rod shop. When an old person diesit islike a library has burned down.Bret from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Feb 24 21:03:51 1998 Subject: Re: fuzzies on silk wraps Thanks to all who had suggestions. No, I didn't singe. I'll get analcohol lamp in the morning. Brian from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 24 21:04:11 1998 Subject: re: fuzzies Brian;I use A.W. silk, too and haven"t found it to be any worse than Gudebrod . Icarefully singe the wraps with a Bic lighter or an alcohol lamp, then shavewith a razor blade,x-acto knife or scalpel in between coats.Just be sure totwirl the section rapidly if you elect to singe, you can burn thru thewraps or worse yet,(don't ask) scorch the rod if you're not careful. Hopethis helps.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Tue Feb 24 21:20:35 1998 Subject: production rod All;I looked at a rod a fellow out here wants refinished,but neither of us knowif its worth it, there are no markings on it of any kind. It looks like atypical H-I or maybe Montague, 9' 3 pc, has a light brown plastic orbakelite reelseat with aluminum threads slotted behind where the reelgoesto guide the pocketed slip ring, seperate lock ring, pocketed but cap thatis rather poorly plated.The winding check is cone shaped, also poorlyplated and it has a fat cigar shaped grip.This is where the resemblance toa cheapo production rod ends. It has 9 snakes plus stripper and the guidewraps aren't tipped, they have border wraps spaced about 1/4 away fromtheguide wraps. It also has some intermediates, but I don't remember exactlyhow many. The wrap colors are hard to tell. possible Orange or tan withmaybe gold trim wraps. It all looks to be original to me, I looked veryclosly for ghosting that would indicate a change of guide position, but itall looks as made. If anyone has a clue for me, I would appreciate it.Thanks in advance.John Channer from Fishstink@aol.com Tue Feb 24 21:21:48 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Thanks Bret,I take it won't harm the PVC glue either?Mike from Fishstink@aol.com Tue Feb 24 21:39:01 1998 Subject: Re: Petrie Special Bret, the Petrie Special was a rod made by Heddon as a private label rodforPetrie Sporting goods in Madison Wisconsin according to Michael SinclairsHeddon book. According to the book, it was made from at least 1937. Icouldn'tfind any other information quickly.Mike Shay from tripp@olywa.net Tue Feb 24 22:19:25 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA18052 for ;Tue, 24 Feb 1998 20:18:15 -0800 Subject: Re: best planing forms? Colorado Bootstrap' web page says that they offer a money back guaranteeifyou are not satisfied. Has anyone had any experience with these planingforms? What is the quality like? Thanks! Mark ----------From: Art Port Subject: Re: best planing forms?Date: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 4:12 PM At 05:38 PM 2/24/98 EST, you wrote:could anyone please tell me who has the best planing forms for under$500 ? Idon't want nor do I have the time to be tuning or tweaking ! Being newto thisart I want to buy the best product for the money and I am a littleconfusedabout what is good and not so good ! Also do any of the planing formscomewith a guarantee, that they are right the first time you use them? Dear "TW",See the previous post re the Rodmakers' Page and Colorado Bootstrap. Asfaras the guarantee goes, I don't think you'll get one since you seem tothinkthey come pre-set. YOU do all the setting. The forms merely need to beflatand predictably grooved. The cane conforms to the depths you put intotheforms using your own micrometer/ depthmeter and socket/allen wrench.I'msure the guys who mill them will promise that the forms have theABILITYtotake and hold your adjustments, but ain't nobody goin' to warranty yourability to set them or plane properly! Good luck (and keep askingquestions;it'll all come together with the base of knowledge available to youhere).Art from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Feb 24 23:12:07 1998 Subject: RE:production rod RO>I looked at a rod a fellow out here wants refinished,but neither of usknowRO>if its worth it, there are no markings on it of any kind. It looks like aRO>typical H-I or maybe Montague, 9' 3 pc, has a light brown plastic orRO>bakelite reelseat with aluminum threads slotted behind where the reelgoesRO>to guide the pocketed slip ring, seperate lock ring, pocketed but capthatRO>is rather poorly plated.The winding check is cone shaped, also poorlyRO>plated and it has a fat cigar shaped grip.This is where the resemblancetoRO>a cheapo production rod ends. It has 9 snakes plus stripper and theguideRO>wraps aren't tipped, they have border wraps spaced about 1/4 away from theRO>guide wraps. It also has some intermediates, but I don't rememberexactlyRO>how many. The wrap colors are hard to tell. possible Orange or tan withRO>maybe gold trim wraps. It all looks to be original to me, I looked veryRO>closly for ghosting that would indicate a change of guide position, butitRO>all looks as made. If anyone has a clue for me, I would appreciate it.RO>Thanks in advance.O> John Channer John, tell us more about the female ferrules - are they step-down orhave straight tube? Plated? Hand-welted or rolled-welted? Blued?Serrated? It could be a Heddon - but the wrap colors sound wrong. So do the borderwraps. Montague put border wraps on their better rods. But so didGranger. Could the brown plastic spacer be faded red? Don Burns from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Feb 24 23:15:04 1998 Subject: Re: magazine Not a problem. Ask him if he'd send me one :) Robert Clarke ----------From: David Price Subject: Re: magazineDate: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 8:38 PM Robert Clarke wrote: OK, not to beat a dead horse. Is there anyone who still has notreceivedtheir cane magazine (except for me)? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Robert not to make you feel bad but the guy at the Orvis shop up heregave me mine for free last week...:-)Dave Price from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Feb 24 23:39:22 1998 Subject: Re: slipping problem I think I have found all of your answers to be true. You name it, I wasprobabaly doing it wrong. I am at work right now (ok, taking a break atthe moment), so it may be a day or so before I can do some work on somestrips, but I think preparation of the strips is the key. You are right onHank, as I think Tom and Art and Chris were. Robert ----------From: FISHWOOL@aol.com Subject: Re: slipping problemDate: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 6:01 PM Robert,Tom's advice is probably the best but one of your problems might bethatthe inner part of the strip is protruding beyond the enamel as you lookstraight down on the strip-this will kick yhe enamel side away from thesteepside of the form and give you a more acute angle than 60 deg.Just my .02.Regards,Hank. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Feb 24 23:52:01 1998 Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:51:27 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: straightening On Tue, 24 Feb 1998, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: I like nodes, too. They keep me humble. Brian And somewhat twisted ;-) /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Feb 24 23:58:12 1998 Subject: Re: best planing forms? In a message dated 2/24/98 8:22:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,tripp@olywa.netwrites: Colorado Bootstrap' web page says that they offer a money backguarantee ifyou are not satisfied. Has anyone had any experience with these planingforms? What is the quality like? Been using a CB form for almost 4 years now. Never had a problem.It's not polished mirror smooth, and I doubt it's machined to the1/10,000ths, but it works. Darryl Hayashida from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 25 00:33:34 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA8841 +0000 Subject: Re: smooth it out Has anyone tried what they use for fine furniture...rottenstone? George Bourke ----------From: Fishstink@aol.com Subject: Re: smooth it outDate: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 9:45 AM Dear Phil,I leave the varnish to cure for 24 hours before touching it. And you areright, the 4/0 steel wool does take the finish off the edges first. I wasthinking of something like a popsicle stick and fine wet/dry paper. Theautomotive polishes seem to be the lists concurance as to the polishingend ofthis problem and am going to the supply house today to see what theyhaveavailable. Thanks for all the help!Mike Shay from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 25 00:41:02 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA11899 +0000 Subject: Re: Rodmaking Classes Dean, I am in San Jose. George Bourkeirish-george@worldnet.att.net ----------From: Burrill, Dean Subject: RE: Rodmaking ClassesDate: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 11:05 AM Anyone know of rodmaking classes in the San Francisco Bay area? Also,is there anyone out there on the list in the S.F. area? -----Original Message-----From: Tom [SMTP:tom@cet-inc.com]Sent: Tuesday, February 24, 1998 11:01 AM Subject: Re: Rodmaking Classes I highly recommend the instruction offered by George Maurer nearLenhartsville, PA. I drove about an hour to George's oneafternoon per week ever spent.I appreciate it even more when I see what many others go throughin tryingto get started. If you can afford this type of instruction fromGeorge orsomeone like him, it really lets you hit the ground running. Istarted myclass with George last March. I'm now working on my tenth rod.Since theclass George and I keep in touch, he is a great resource. Thanks to George and others like him for sharing theirknowledge. Tom Whittle----------From: andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Subject: Rodmaking ClassesDate: Tue, 24 Feb 1998 12:01:47 -0500 but was wondering if anyone has had any direct experience with any. Feel free to send me email at andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com if the information you have isinappropriate from channer@frontier.net Wed Feb 25 01:42:20 1998 Subject: production rod Don;thanks for the reply. The ferrules are very plain, chrome plated brass,rolled welt, wrapped to ferrule, no serrations or winding shoulder, stepdown style. The cane is not the right color to be either a Heddon or aGranger. It is not very blonde, but I think that is because of old yellowedvarnish. Actually, the reel seat spacer is almost a golden color and looksmore like plastic than bakelite. I have seen a few(not many, don't get tosee many cane rods out here) bakelite seats and it doesn't look quite thesame as plastic to me. I also have never seen a reel seat with this guidegroove down the back of it before. When I first got interested in cane rodsback in Illinois I used to haunt the antique store and flea markets inhopes of finding a " rare gem " and actally did find a nice Heddon 14 witha featherweight reel seat for $150 and another antique rod with hangingring guides and an unusual celluloid lace grip for $50, both of which werestraight , full length and had both tips. The Heddon is an HCH or D and islots of fun for bass and the antique rod I refinished( wraps were fallingapart and varnish was in total meltdown) with snakes and I used it on theSan Juan before I started making my own. It is slooooow, but i've caught20" fish with 8x tippet on it and it really protects a fine tippet. It alsoroll casts about twice as far as it does above the water. Anyway, Iappreciate your help identifying this other rod. I told the owner that heshould decide whether or not to spend the money on refinishing it bycasting the rod and seeing if he likes it or not, not based on anyinvestment value. I am assuming that a production rod with this manyguideson it will at least be a higher end model. The cane work on this thingappears to be fairly good, no obvious glue lines and the nodes are allseparate. Some of the low end rods I've seem had the nodes stacked on topof each other and glue lines so open you can throw a cat thru them. Thanksagain.John{running off athemouth, or fingers i guess)Channer from channer@frontier.net Wed Feb 25 02:01:09 1998 Subject: 8'6" Payne All;I had the rare good luck to be able to examine and measure an honest toGodPayne today, I've never seen one before and may very likely never seeanother. It was a very humbling experience, all three flat to flatmeasurements were within .002 of each other and the workmanship wasbeautiful. I only wish it hadn't been snowing out so I could have cast it.The guy that owns it is sending it to a dealer tomorrow, so I won't get thechance again. If anyone would like the taper I would be glad to post it. Ithink it has been refinished, there were some lumps in the varnish which Idon't think Jim Payne would have let out of the shop and there were nomarkings on the shaft, just the Payne name on the reel seat band. It iswrapped in brown tipped black with black-gold-black at the ferrules, ifthis is any indication of the model. I'll have to go stare at the TonkaPrince I have in to refinish to restore my opinion of my own work.John Channer from SealRite@aol.com Wed Feb 25 03:27:04 1998 Subject: Re: Tung Oil Problem? If you haven't heard from anybody else yet, you should be easily able tocorrect it by using the tung oil as a solvent. Rub the rod down with excessoil again, and let it soak into the existing finish. In 15 minutes or so, rubit down hard, removing all of the oil. The best tung oil finishes are hand rubbed to produce heat, which in turnaccelerates the curing. After each application, the rod should feel almostdry. Craig from SealRite@aol.com Wed Feb 25 03:27:38 1998 Subject: Re: U.V. Drying Box - Repels Dust? We work with PVCs & modified PVC's in the window industry. The UV raysbasically create an internal heat uptake in the plastics. A plastic thatmight not absorb any heat can suddenly generate substantial internal heatjust from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Feb 25 06:15:25 1998 Subject: Re: best planing forms? Try Lon Blauvelt in Maine 207-781-5235. from cparham@crocker.com Wed Feb 25 07:22:16 1998 0500 Subject: Re: slipping Eagle America 800-872-2511 and Jesada Tools 800-531-5559 both sell60drouter bits. Eagle has a wide selection of many sizes with and withoutbearings plus 45d and 90d bits. All are carbide. Ralph W Moon wrote: Sears used to sell a combination 60 degree and 30 degree router bit. Idon't know if they still do Ralph from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Feb 25 08:57:32 1998 Subject: Re: 8'6" Payne John, I'd love to check out the numbers on the Payne. They really are the best ofthe classic rods imho. Was there any hanging tag to suggest which modeliswas? from the few Paynes I've had the pleasure to check out, the blacktippingseems to signify a heavier line wt. (6+). If you want, send the taper to medirectly and please tell me if you've subtracted anything for varnish. Rob Hoffhines from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Wed Feb 25 09:01:11 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: best planing forms? RO>could anyone please tell me who has the best planing forms for under$500 ?RO>don't want nor do I have the time to be tuning or tweaking ! Being newto thRO>art I want to buy the best product for the money and I am a littleconfusedRO>about what is good and not so good ! Also do any of the planing formscomeRO>with a guarantee, that they are right the first time you use them? Mark, TW, who ever you are. Maybe this is not the craft that you want to be in. I have not startedplaning bamboo yet and I have been researching this art for better thana year. I have been reading this list for over six months and alsoreading the archives and the Garrison and Cattanauch books. I haveacquired some cane, started my metal forms, made my rough forms, andacquired a lathe that I am rebuilding. I have also acquired parts forand started building my oven. I know what I want to try in thefinishing mode. As I understand it, it can take up to 120 Hrs to builda rod. However, I can do it 30 Min. at a time. What I am saying is that this seems to me to be a "Tuning and Tweaking"sort of craft. You don't just knock out a bunch of high priced rods.You lovingly coax the strips out of the culm and convince them to take anew shape as a fine useable piece of art. This is not a get rich quickscheme but something we do because we take pride in producing a fineinstrument, whether it be our tools (Look at Dave Price's binder fromthe rodmakers webpage) or our finished product, the rods, because weenjoy working with our hands and finding new and different ways ofgetting to our finished products. We also enjoy using and appreciatingthe work done by others and we really enjoy the comradery of thislistserv. I have found that in life the destination is not always what I desired.But, I have had more fun and learned more and made excellent friends onthe trip. What I say to you is enjoy the trip (process) and thedestination will mean more. Dick Fuhrman from dhaftel@att.com Wed Feb 25 09:11:05 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 10:11:53-0500 Subject: RE: 8'6" Payne 4.0.995.52 ...For that matter, if you would, share it with everyone! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Nodewrrior@aol.com [SMTP:Nodewrrior@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:56 AM Subject: Re: 8'6" Payne John, I'd love to check out the numbers on the Payne. They really are the best ofthe classic rods imho. Was there any hanging tag to suggest which modeliswas? from the few Paynes I've had the pleasure to check out, the blacktippingseems to signify a heavier line wt. (6+). If you want, send the taper to medirectly and please tell me if you've subtracted anything for varnish. Rob Hoffhines from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Feb 25 09:27:43 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: smooth it out Ray,What's the funnel for? Just curious - Also, I've found ou the hard waythat you don't want to leave a pvc tube containing varnish in the sun. Itgetsawfully hot and the varnish starts to bubble up through the screw top. Harry Boyd Ray Durant wrote: Mike, I made a really effective dip system out of a piece of PVC pipe, a funneland barbecue spit motor. A 1/8 in. dowel on the motor makes it so thatittakes about 10 minutes per ft to withdraw the rod. Works great. Justmyinput.Ray from Ron_Elder@cpr.ca Wed Feb 25 09:37:19 1998 872565B6.0055EF8E ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 08:38:38 -0700 Subject: Re: smooth it out How true Bret. I has forgotten about this. A colleague of mine who doesfine furniture restorations uses cigar ashes to polish out water marks andhot rings (those rings that are caused by putting a hot cup of coffee of ahot bowl on a fine varnish finish). He mixes the ashes with either a lightoil or saliva and works out the finish and then waxes. There is also aside benefit to this as he also gets to enjoy a fine Cuban cigar at thesame time. He swears that an expensive cigar works better than a cheapone. Who am I to argue! Ron ElderCalgary, ABCanada Grhghlndr@aol.com on 02/24/98 06:45:15 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: smooth it out I remember when I was a kid my dad used to polish things with cigaretteashesmade into a paste like you would use rottenstone. He said it was not asabrasive as other things and it did a fine job on his gold pocket watches.Though it is messy like rottenstone and other such things. another noteusingrottenstone with a light oil instead of water gives a different result inthegloss of finish.Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 25 09:39:37 1998 Subject: RE:production rod RO> thanks for the reply. The ferrules are very plain, chrome plated brass,RO>rolled welt, wrapped to ferrule, no serrations or winding shoulder,stepRO>down style. The cane is not the right color to be either a Heddon or aRO>Granger. It is not very blonde, but I think that is because of oldyellowedRO>varnish. Actually, the reel seat spacer is almost a golden color andlooksRO>more like plastic than bakelite. John, If it didn't have the CPB shouldered ferrules, my best guess would beSouth Bend. It sounds more like a Montague or H-I with the shoulderedferrules. The light cane, CPB ferrules and cheap overall appearancewould put H-I at the head of my guesses. Value - not much. I've seen a few of these prod. rods selling for $5 -$10 at local swap meets. Don B. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 25 09:52:13 1998 Subject: Re: Re: smooth it out Mike ,Be carefull that the varnish you use doesn't destroy the glues holding thebottom on the tube.Hank. from Fishstink@aol.com Wed Feb 25 10:22:12 1998 Subject: Re: smooth it out Hank,Have you had a problem with the varnish solvents disolving the PVC glue?Mike from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Feb 25 10:52:22 1998 Subject: Re: best planing forms? There is a canadian source of planing forms at $300.oo Can, alittle over$200.oo US at current exchange rates. Iv'e bought two of them, and bothwork fine. Contact John Valk at Grindstone Anglers, Waterdown, Canada,telephone 905-689-0880 or email: johnvalk@spectranet.ca ----------From: DrBamboo@aol.com Subject: Re: best planing forms?Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 7:14 AM Try Lon Blauvelt in Maine 207-781-5235. from tripp@olywa.net Wed Feb 25 11:04:17 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA18463 for ;Wed, 25 Feb 1998 09:03:00 -0800 Subject: Re: best planing forms? Gee Dick! Thanks for the encouragement. How would you know what I want? Or what my skills are? Or mymotivation bunchof high priced rods". I don't recall mentioning I had any intention ofselling ANY rod I might make. I do not need to "get rich". FYI. I designed and built my house, and shop, designed and installed myalternative energy system. (I live completely off the grid) I buildfurniture and wooden boats. I am QUITE comfortable with hand and powertools. I just don't have the inclination to make a metal planing form. IfTHAT means that I shouldn't consider the craft, well... sorry, but I willmake several rods in spite of you. To everyone who has helped with their suggestions, thank-you!!!! I nowhave several sources for planing forms. Gotta run, chironomids are hatching... Thanks again, Mark A. Tripp Mark, TW, who ever you are. Maybe this is not the craft that you want to be in. I have not startedplaning bamboo yet and I have been researching this art for better thana year. I have been reading this list for over six months and alsoreading the archives and the Garrison and Cattanauch books. I haveacquired some cane, started my metal forms, made my rough forms, andacquired a lathe that I am rebuilding. I have also acquired parts forand started building my oven. I know what I want to try in thefinishing mode. As I understand it, it can take up to 120 Hrs to builda rod. However, I can do it 30 Min. at a time. What I am saying is that this seems to me to be a "Tuning and Tweaking"sort of craft. You don't just knock out a bunch of high priced rods.You lovingly coax the strips out of the culm and convince them to take anew shape as a fine useable piece of art. This is not a get rich quickscheme but something we do because we take pride in producing a fineinstrument, whether it be our tools (Look at Dave Price's binder fromthe rodmakers webpage) or our finished product, the rods, because weenjoy working with our hands and finding new and different ways ofgetting to our finished products. We also enjoy using and appreciatingthe work done by others and we really enjoy the comradery of thislistserv. I have found that in life the destination is not always what I desired.But, I have had more fun and learned more and made excellent friends onthe trip. What I say to you is enjoy the trip (process) and thedestination will mean more. Dick Fuhrman from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Feb 25 11:30:32 1998 Subject: Re: best planing forms? Mark;I like your style.Hang in there.If there is anything I can help you withlet me know.GEM from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 25 11:39:44 1998 Subject: Annotated Archives on CD? Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Feb 25 12:02:09 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: best planing forms? Does anyone actually have one of Lon's? That was one I was seriously thinking about getting (though I still have to check out the Colorado Bootstrap one). Andy p.s.. thanks to those of you who responded on the rod making classes ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: best planing forms? Author: at tcpgate There is a canadian source of planing forms at $300.oo Can, alittle over$200.oo US at current exchange rates. Iv'e bought two of them, and bothwork fine. Contact John Valk at Grindstone Anglers, Waterdown, Canada,telephone 905-689-0880 or email: johnvalk@spectranet.ca ----------From: DrBamboo@aol.com Subject: Re: best planing forms?Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 7:14 AM Try Lon Blauvelt in Maine 207-781-5235. from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 25 12:04:13 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Sir D, I love the idea. I'd buy one. Robert Clarke ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Annotated Archives on CD?Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:38 AM Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 25 12:12:31 1998 Subject: RE:Annotated Archives on CD? Darryl, That does sound good. Don B. from dhaftel@att.com Wed Feb 25 12:14:06 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 13:14:59-0500 Subject: RE: Annotated Archives on CD? 4.0.995.52 Me three... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 1:03 PM Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Sir D, I love the idea. I'd buy one. Robert Clarke ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Annotated Archives on CD?Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:38 AM Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Wed Feb 25 12:22:17 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Wed, 25 Feb 98 13:10:20 EST Subject: Re: Pictures Art, The smart idea would be to buy tensioners (and folks have said Jan'sNetcraft has cheap ones). I never did and made my own. Now I've got somuch time in them I've just got to get them to work properly. One of thosefunny little things about this craft. So I guess I'll keep fussing withthem trying for improvements here and there. The other day I found somenice looking plastic washers that might just be an improvement... Dave isright though the key is getting the settings equal and stable. Have fun.-- Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 25 12:25:45 1998 1997)) id862565B6.006432AE ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 12:14:25 -0600 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Excellent idea, Darryl! I would think periodic (yearly?) volumes would golike hotcakes. Ed Estlow P.S. Could we weed out the flames and irrelevant threads, though? Ilaughedheartily at "Toadsuck, AK," but thought that whole thread was a bit muchonan e-mail list. I also didn't need to "hear" the exchange about planingform guarantees and who should and should not be in this endeavor thatwentthrough the list this morning. from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Wed Feb 25 12:31:23 1998 0400 (AST) 25 Feb 98 13:36:52 -0500 0500 25 Feb 98 13:35:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? I was kicked off the service now and I missed this posting what archievesare you talking about. And how much will it cost.Thanks and it is reat to be back- ----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Annotated Archives on CD? Me three... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 1:03 PM Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Sir D, I love the idea. I'd buy one. Robert Clarke ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Annotated Archives on CD?Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:38 AM Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD,wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The onlyproblem I can see right away is that blank CDsare still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee wouldhave to be charged, but along with postage, itshouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairlysure there would be enough room on the disk toinclude the various hexrod programs available fromJerry's web site (I noticed some people having troubledownloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Wed Feb 25 12:35:20 1998 Subject: RE: Annotated Archives on CD? This would be great. It sounds like a lot of work. And I personallywould be willing to pay quite a bit more than $5. -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:39 AM Subject: Annotated Archives on CD? Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Wed Feb 25 12:49:09 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id MAA13994 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id MAA02049 for ; Wed, 25 Feb1998 Subject: Re: Pictures I can't "feel" the difference in my four tensioners by hand, but ifI put I FINE rod tip thru (doesn't have to be cane), I can see rightaway which one is tighter than the others. Better to see it duringduring a test than when your freshly planed and glued tip strips goflailing aroung wildly. That is sure to test your anitperspirant.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Robert Milardo wrote: Art, The smart idea would be to buy tensioners (and folks have saidJan'sNetcraft has cheap ones). I never did and made my own. Now I've got somuch time in them I've just got to get them to work properly. One ofthosefunny little things about this craft. So I guess I'll keep fussing withthem trying for improvements here and there. The other day I foundsomenice looking plastic washers that might just be an improvement... Daveisright though the key is getting the settings equal and stable. Have fun.--Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Feb 25 12:56:32 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Absolutely! Given the amount I've spent so far on books, Wayne's videos, a plane, etc. and how much more is yet on my list (you know, little stuff like planing forms!), $5 or anything even close would be no problem! Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Annotated Archives on CD? Author: at tcpgate Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from donkovach@email.msn.com Wed Feb 25 13:05:31 1998 SMTPSVC;Wed, 25 Feb 1998 11:04:39 -0800 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? The archives on CD is an excellent idea. Count me in. Don -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: Annotated Archives on CD? This would be great. It sounds like a lot of work. And I personallywould be willing to pay quite a bit more than $5. -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:39 AM Subject: Annotated Archives on CD? Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD,wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The onlyproblem I can see right away is that blank CDsare still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee wouldhave to be charged, but along with postage, itshouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairlysure there would be enough room on the disk toinclude the various hexrod programs available fromJerry's web site (I noticed some people having troubledownloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Feb 25 13:27:39 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Sir D,Are you thinking of beginning with those archives currentlyannotated, or going back through the months and years? That soundsgreat, but sounds like lots of work as well. Still, count me in for 5bucks, whatever you decide. SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD,wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The onlyproblem I can see right away is that blank CDsare still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee wouldhave to be charged, but along with postage, itshouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairlysure there would be enough room on the disk toinclude the various hexrod programs available fromJerry's web site (I noticed some people having troubledownloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from tball@mail.portup.com Wed Feb 25 13:32:37 1998 0500 Subject: CD's boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0112_01BD41FA.6B442760" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0112_01BD41FA.6B442760 Sir D, you can also count me in. Tom in Trout Lake ------=_NextPart_000_0112_01BD41FA.6B442760 Lake ------=_NextPart_000_0112_01BD41FA.6B442760-- from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Feb 25 14:07:43 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Before everyone starts getting too excited... First: Thanks Darryl for your offer. As mentioned, what you suggesting isA LOT of work. Second: I know quite a few list members consider their contributionsCopywrited. I would think getting each individuals approval would berequired before publishing their words from the archives. Third: Darryl mentioned a 5.00 fee. I don't know what blank CD-R's aregoing for these days, but I am sure packaging and mailing will eat up amajor portion the that $5.00, not to mention the blank CD, and what Darrylwants for his time. So, while in it's essence the idea sounds great, there are in fact, manyimportant issues that must be addressed. Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from Cmwall@aol.com Wed Feb 25 14:48:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: best planing forms? Andy, I have one of Lon's forms. They are excellant,easy to adjust and goodquailty. I do'nt think you will go wrong in buying a set. Mac from thramer@presys.com Wed Feb 25 14:52:38 1998 0000 Subject: Why? I would like to see some short(50wds) essays on why members buildbamboo. Perhaps followed by another short essay on why members fish bamboo. My rods are driven by performance criteria derived while fishing. I knowothers are driven by the art of building.A.J.Thramer from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Feb 25 15:01:24 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? In a message dated 2/25/98 12:09:29 PM Pacific Standard Time,michael@wugate.wustl.edu writes: So, while in it's essence the idea sounds great, there are in fact, manyimportant issues that must be addressed. The main reason for this idea wasn't to make money on it, I just noticedsome people having problems getting to the web site, downloading the programs, etc. It would also be a lot more convenient to search a CD,instead of trying to do a search over an internet connection, but I was reluctant to pay for the cost of the blank CDs, hence the mention of a nominal fee to defray my cost. I really won't be too disappointed ifit doesn't fly, it will mean a lot of extra work for me if I do it. And this was exactly the reason I posted it on the list. To find outif there would be any objections to doing this. If there is, then I won'tdo it. Personally, (being one of the contributors on this list), I wouldn'tmind, but I can see how others would. Darryl Hayashida from teekay35@interlynx.net Wed Feb 25 15:06:31 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Me too!!! ----------From: Burrill, Dean Subject: RE: Annotated Archives on CD?Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 1:34 PM This would be great. It sounds like a lot of work. And I personallywould be willing to pay quite a bit more than $5. -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:39 AM Subject: Annotated Archives on CD? Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 25 15:12:48 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA08783 for Subject: Re: best planing forms? At 09:47 AM 2/25/98 EDT, you wrote:RO>could anyone please tell me who has the best planing forms for under$500 ?RO>don't want nor do I have the time to be tuning or tweaking ! Being newto thRO>art I want to buy the best product for the money and I am a littleconfusedRO>about what is good and not so good ! Also do any of the planing formscomeRO>with a guarantee, that they are right the first time you use them? Mark, TW, who ever you are. Dick Fuhrman Dick, Sounds right to me. I hope the fellow doesn't take what you'resaying as a "flame". It's probably the best and most concise way of puttingthe philosophy of the craft I've ever seen. When I first met HoagyCarmichael, he inscribed my copy of "the book": "One of the nice thingsabout this trade is some of the guys one meets....". Ya gotta be in it 'cusyou're a learner, not 'cus ya want a fast cheap rod.The first fellow I talked to who built his own was Len Codella whoopined that he figured he put in the same amount of time as if he had gone myfirst in my hand (and THAT one fell apart!!!!)Art from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Feb 25 15:17:19 1998 1997)) id862565B6.00748499 ; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 15:12:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Why? I don't build yet (lack of space and $$ for tools - I guess that's the "whynot?"). I fish bamboo because, as a friend of mine once said, graphite is aboutcatching fish while bamboo is about fishing. For my two cents, catchingfish is the least important part of fishing. -Ed from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Feb 25 15:28:27 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Darryl,I guess the aye's have it.Gary At 12:38 PM 2/25/98 EST, you wrote:Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 25 15:32:34 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10017 for Subject: Re: best planing forms? At 09:02 AM 2/25/98 -0800, you wrote:Gee Dick! Thanks for the encouragement. How would you know what I want? Or what my skills are? Or mymotivation bunchof high priced rods". I don't recall mentioning I had any intention ofselling ANY rod I might make. I do not need to "get rich". FYI. I designed and built my house, and shop, designed and installed myalternative energy system. (I live completely off the grid) I buildfurniture and wooden boats. I am QUITE comfortable with hand and powertools. I just don't have the inclination to make a metal planing form. IfTHAT means that I shouldn't consider the craft, well... sorry, but I willmake several rods in spite of you. To everyone who has helped with their suggestions, thank-you!!!! I nowhave several sources for planing forms. Gotta run, chironomids are hatching... Thanks again, Mark A. Tripp Mark, TW, who ever you are. Maybe this is not the craft that you want to be in. I have not startedplaning bamboo yet and I have been researching this art for better thana year. I have been reading this list for over six months and alsoreading the archives and the Garrison and Cattanauch books. I haveacquired some cane, started my metal forms, made my rough forms, andacquired a lathe that I am rebuilding. I have also acquired parts forand started building my oven. I know what I want to try in thefinishing mode. As I understand it, it can take up to 120 Hrs to builda rod. However, I can do it 30 Min. at a time. What I am saying is that this seems to me to be a "Tuning and Tweaking"sort of craft. You don't just knock out a bunch of high priced rods.You lovingly coax the strips out of the culm and convince them to take anew shape as a fine useable piece of art. This is not a get rich quickscheme but something we do because we take pride in producing a fineinstrument, whether it be our tools (Look at Dave Price's binder fromthe rodmakers webpage) or our finished product, the rods, because weenjoy working with our hands and finding new and different ways ofgetting to our finished products. We also enjoy using and appreciatingthe work done by others and we really enjoy the comradery of thislistserv. I have found that in life the destination is not always what I desired.But, I have had more fun and learned more and made excellent friends onthe trip. What I say to you is enjoy the trip (process) and thedestination will mean more. Dick Fuhrman Mark,Sorry , I thought the same thing that Dick thought. Maybe it was amisreading of your post. I certainly meant no harm and from what I knowofDick (only over the web) he wasn't trying to be nasty. If you want a goodset of forms you can certainly apparently use the Colorado Bootstrap guys(can't say for sure---I got mine FREE from a friend who worked in a largesteel company). We'll keep you in as much info as you can handle (maybemore!).One of the problems of a group like this is we have no backgroundsof one another and if an early posting seems awry, we may reactprematurelyor inaccurately. Keep at it and you'll see that there was no maliceintended. We all have to go at our own speed and try what works best forus,so some will take shortcuts where others would never consider it. I justspent a 1/2 hr on the phone with a tech at a heat gun mftr trying to getinfo on how to lower his settings so that I can cheap out on an oven thatuses a gun rather than build another more expensive model or reacquaintmyself with the local pizzerias or commercial bakers. I'm sure there areguys who would just build the best and the cost be damned!I've been bothering Dave Price unconscionably about details of hisMilward binder and he's always been MORE than helpful. This is DEFINITELYthe place to be if you're even thinking of "doing the dirty" and you'll soonsee that nobody intentionally means disrespect!My best,Art Port from anglport@con2.com Wed Feb 25 15:42:04 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA10630 for Subject: Re: Pictures At 12:48 PM 2/25/98 -0600, you wrote:I can't "feel" the difference in my four tensioners by hand, but ifI put I FINE rod tip thru (doesn't have to be cane), I can see rightaway which one is tighter than the others. Better to see it duringduring a test than when your freshly planed and glued tip strips goflailing aroung wildly. That is sure to test your anitperspirant.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, Robert Milardo wrote: Art, The smart idea would be to buy tensioners (and folks have saidJan'sNetcraft has cheap ones). I never did and made my own. Now I've got somuch time in them I've just got to get them to work properly. One ofthosefunny little things about this craft. So I guess I'll keep fussing withthem trying for improvements here and there. The other day I foundsomenice looking plastic washers that might just be an improvement... Daveisright though the key is getting the settings equal and stable. Have fun.--Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 Frank,Thanks. I think I can find a (ugh) graphite rod tip to test out the works before Irisk the actual cane in the thing. Hell, I have a glass rod that I canafford to sacrifice. It's a great way to play and find the limits of thedesign (and workmanship).Art from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Feb 25 15:48:48 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Darryl,Now that the list guy voiced his concerns maybe the nay's have it,isn'tthat the way it usually goes, someone's always in touch with reality.Gary At 12:38 PM 2/25/98 EST, you wrote:Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Wed Feb 25 16:07:56 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Wed, 25 Feb 98 17:07:15 EST Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? "Reality is nothing but a collective hunch." (Lily Tomlin, I think whileshe was fishing the Madison).At 04:58 PM 2/25/98 -0500, you wrote:Darryl,Now that the list guy voiced his concerns maybe the nay's have it,isn'tthat the way it usually goes, someone's always in touch with reality.Gary Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from fer@surfplanet.com Wed Feb 25 16:24:53 1998 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21290 for; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 22:25:07 GMT Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? I think this is a great idea Sir D, but it seems a lot of work to getthe valuable information from the messages. Anyway I suppose that morethan a couple of folks of the list (of course I offer myself) could helpto extract the proper issues if any common criteria was established. Fernando Rada. from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 25 16:25:47 1998 0500 Subject: Re: best planing forms? Hey! I SOMETIMES MEAN DISRESPECT!You take that back!!;^) Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 25 16:26:43 1998 0500 Subject: Re: straightening Thought that went w/o saying . . . . from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Feb 25 16:27:38 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: best planing forms? Andy;Have used these in my classes.Much better than Colorado Bootstrap.George from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 25 16:31:43 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Darryl- That's a great idea. I know I hate to go to the unannotated archives tosearch for info 'cause it takes so damn much time sifting through them.Indexed and on a cd would be heaven! Let me know if I can help somehow. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 25 16:34:27 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? But leave in the "Grits," thing. It added an educational as well asbioregional flavour that helps to define us as a group within thisinformation superhighway. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Feb 25 16:36:18 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? "Offer not valid in all states or with any other special." "Limit oneto a customer." Brian from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Feb 25 16:57:47 1998 0500 Subject: Re[4]: best planing forms? Thanks Mac...I think that's the way I'll go...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Re[2]: best planing forms? Author: at tcpgate Andy, I have one of Lon's forms. They are excellant,easy to adjust and goodquailty. I do'nt think you will go wrong in buying a set. Mac from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 25 17:02:07 1998 Subject: RE:Why? AJ, and all, I started using bamboo because that's what my dad stuck into my hand atabout age 12. He decided it was time - no more spinning for fat lakerson Kingscote Lake. Time to head to that beaver dam on the outlet streamand learn real fishing - fishing like he did starting as a small boy onthe farm back in Eastern PA during the '20's. Years later while on shore leave in Japan, I found a GI rod with mydad's name on. I borrowed money from the ship's illegal 2 for 1 pooljust to buy it for him. I knew that I couldn't find a better gift toexpress my feelings. A couple of years ago, he said it was time for me to have his rods. His3 Montagues and that, still in the box, GI rod. A rod that we all knowis pure junk, but that he found to precious to fish. I know the feeling because when I pick up a bamboo rod, I'm transportedback to that little brook up in Canada, with my dad's Montague in myhand and a brook full of willing brookies. I guess it's in the blood. Don Burns PS - sorry if it's more than 50 words. from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Feb 25 17:27:00 1998 SAA00777;Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:26:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? DarrellI get quite a bit of software on CD from archives. The going rate Chris On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 13:27:22 -0600, Harry Boyd wrote: Sir D,Are you thinking of beginning with those archives currentlyannotated, or going back through the months and years? That soundsgreat, but sounds like lots of work as well. Still, count me in for 5bucks, whatever you decide. SalarFly@aol.com wrote: Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD,wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The onlyproblem I can see right away is that blank CDsare still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee wouldhave to be charged, but along with postage, itshouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairlysure there would be enough room on the disk toinclude the various hexrod programs available fromJerry's web site (I noticed some people having troubledownloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Wed Feb 25 17:51:00 1998 emf h9451015; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 00:50:47 +0100 00:49:43+0100 Subject: european rodbuilder Hello European Rodmakers,A German rodbuilder and editor of an flyfishing magazin "DerFliegenfischer" isplanningto write a book about European rodbuilders.He will write the book in a similar fashion as Dick Spurr's book onAmericanrodbuilders.A book on European rodbuilder does not exist up to now.The book will be in english to ensure that as many people as possible willbeable to read it. To any European rodbuilder who wants to be included in the book; Please contact : Dr.David PoppValentin - Bauer - Str. 16D-67059 LudwigshafenGermany This will be the last call.Contact David he will be happy about every respond. Thanks a lot ALEX HUBER from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Feb 25 18:43:08 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Why? A.J.,Several years ago I bought my first bamboo, a Leonard 50DF. Not bad fora first rod, huh? Something about that rod captured my heart. I hadassembled a number of graphite rods, and cast hundreds more, but none ofthem touched me like the old Leonard. Soon though, a friend wanted therodeven more than I did, and gave me twice what I paid for it, and to beperfectly honest, I didn't like the cork grip on that rod. For severalyears I searched for another rod that would hold my attention like myfirstbamboo. Having never quite found what I was looking for, though I cannotdescribe that quality, I decided to try my hand at building them.Simply seeing if I could conquer the challenge of fine handwork waspartof the allure. Though I'm on rods # 2&3, that remains to be seen. Finally,another reason I want to build my own rods is there is more than a littlebit of pride in being THE most obsessed flyfisher around!!Harry Boyd PS Oh, and as far as performance, I'm still looking for a good taper toaccurately cast small weighted nymphs and yarn indicators 40-70 feet.Graphite won't do it! A.J.Thramer wrote: I would like to see some short(50wds) essays on why members buildbamboo. Perhaps followed by another short essay on why members fish bamboo. My rods are driven by performance criteria derived while fishing. I knowothers are driven by the art of building.A.J.Thramer from gwbarnes@gwi.net Wed Feb 25 18:46:00 1998 Subject: Re: Why? A.J.Thramer wrote: I would like to see some short(50wds) essays on why members buildbamboo. Mine is much shorter than that. 1. In a very nasty letter, Orvise told me I couldn't do it at home.2. Thirtyyears later I still have fun proving them wrong. from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Wed Feb 25 18:54:37 1998 mailfep3-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 +0000 (GMT) Subject: Re: best planing forms? type="54455854"; dickfuhrman@rheemote.com wrote: What I am saying is that this seems to me to be a "Tuning andTweaking"sort of craft. You don't just knock out a bunch of high priced rods.You lovingly coax the strips out of the culm and convince them to takeanew shape as a fine useable piece of art. This is not a get richquickscheme but something we do because we take pride in producing a fineinstrument ... Dick: mature understanding of the 'labor of love' involved. I couldn't agreemore that 'tuning and tweaking' is the better part of what we do as rodbuilders. Heck, it's part of what makes this cane rod building fun.Anyway, with the good attitude you have, I'm sure you'll produce somefine rods once you get going -- since, most of the work is a state ofmind anyway. On the other hand, I can very well understand a fellowwanting to buy the best he can afford right off the bat ... but,remember the Garrison story about his planing form being used by ahandyman to pry large rocks. He managed to made some 'fairly decent'rodsusing a planing form with a distinctive 'twist' in it. Reminds me of mybrother in law -- a really great guy by the way -- he purchased aShopSmith a few years back, thinking 'it' would make him some finefurniture. Good luck with your rods. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from channer@frontier.net Wed Feb 25 19:07:56 1998 Subject: Payne 8'6" All; Payne 8'6" # pc. that I was allowed to measue. No allowance for varnishhasbeen made, the rod looked either refinished or overcoated, it had somelumps in the varnish which are inconsistent with what little I know ofPayne's reputation. Appears to be a solid two coats worth.Tip1-.0685- .09010-.10915-.12920-.13825-.15030-.160just above 1st ferrule wrap- 32.5-.16835-.182(centered under ferrule guide)40-.20145-.21850-.23255- .24260-.256just above second ferrule wrap-64.75-.26270-.28275-.29480- .31285-.32790-.358 (start of hookeeper wrap-grip at 92)guides- 4.5,9.5,15.5,22.5,29.75,36.75,43.5,52,61,70.5,79.5 I have no idea what line weight this rod is, if anyone knows or figures itout, please let me know.BTW, Don Burns: I think that production rod is probably an H-I, too, but itis a much better made rod than the Tonka Prince I have, the Prince is realego food for me, ghastly glue lines, over sanded nodes, no attempt atspacing nodes, you know what I' talking about. This rod has no visible gluelines and even tho I'm sure they used strips from different culms they atleast made sure they weren't next to one another. Enough hot air. I hopeyou all can use the Payne taperJohn Channer from rparsons@gr-lakes.com Wed Feb 25 19:14:22 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Darryl,Count me in if you are going to do it... Just starting to think aboutmaking grass rods, made a whole lot of plastic ones in the past... But I am a master machinist, working on my Mechanical Engineeringdegree. (for the past six years straight) Getting tired of all thismental exasperation, need a good time intensive hobby.Have been flyfishing since I was a kid. Pushing 40 now... I stillremember catching my first trout on the fly I made... (smile)Stay in Touch!Bob ParsonsRparsons@gr-lakes.comOr Rparson1@ford.comIf there is anything I can do within my powers to help... consider itdone! from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 25 19:15:39 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 25Feb 1998 20:16:34 -0500 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? I sure would pay it! Willing to help put it together also. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Feb 25 19:15:40 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 25Feb 1998 20:16:34 -0500 Subject: Bamboo and I I came to bamboo rods through admiration more than anything else. I had built a bunch of graphite rods (still do), but I wanted to build my own rod, not assemble it. So with the help of sincere friends I jumped in. The first bamboo rod I cast was my own. A Cattanach 6'3" 3wt 3pc. The sad thing was...three months after I finished it I cast it. I thought I was going to break it. Just shows you all, us young guys (21), don't know anything. Thanks for everything, everyone!Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Feb 25 19:16:05 1998 Subject: Glue/Thread-Why? I received my glue today! I also found some glaced cotton! I am going to wait for the weekend until I am rested to glue up my firstrod sections. Two tips, and a butt section are resting in a pvc tubewith a lot of wood shavings (dessicant?). I am both anxious andintimidated. Why did I decide to do this, in 50 words? I love books and reading. Ilove technical material. I love working with my hands. I enjoy achallenge. It would seem that this hobby and I dovetail quite nicely. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Feb 25 19:21:12 1998 Subject: HD Plastic Anyone: I am looking for some high density plastic foam for reel spoolmodification. Would like it to be as light-wt as practical and still be ableto work with it on a lathe. Can anyone direct me to a source that mightsellin small quantities? Any help would be appreciated. On list or off. Thanks in advance,Richard from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Feb 25 19:35:32 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo and I Jon, the rod I am working toward is the same except a 2 piece. What areyour thoughts on it, other than you thought it would break? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: Bamboo and IDate: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 12:15 PM I came to bamboo rods through admiration more than anything else. I had built a bunch of graphite rods (still do), but I wanted to build my own rod, not assemble it. So with the help of sincere friends I jumped in. The first bamboo rod I cast was my own. A Cattanach 6'3" 3wt 3pc. The sad thing was...three months after I finished it I cast it. I thought I was going to break it. Just shows you all, us young guys (21), don't know anything. Thanks for everything, everyone!Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Feb 25 19:56:54 1998 Subject: Re: european rodbuilder Alex,Please keep us informed. ThanksGary At 05:41 PM 2/25/98 +0100, you wrote:Hello European Rodmakers,A German rodbuilder and editor of an flyfishing magazin "DerFliegenfischer" is planningto write a book about European rodbuilders.He will write the book in a similar fashion as Dick Spurr's book onAmerican rodbuilders.A book on European rodbuilder does not exist up to now.The book will be in english to ensure that as many people as possible willbe able to read it. To any European rodbuilder who wants to be included in the book; Please contact : Dr.David PoppValentin - Bauer - Str. 16D-67059 LudwigshafenGermany This will be the last call.Contact David he will be happy about every respond. Thanks a lot ALEX HUBER from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Feb 25 20:04:08 1998 Subject: Thread I have just finished some practice binding. I can break the stuff Ibought with my hands. This can't be good right? I must have gottensome old and rotten thread. Anyone? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from tripp@olywa.net Wed Feb 25 20:37:53 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA18652 for ;Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:36:36 -0800 Subject: Re: best planing forms?Date: Wed, 25 Feb 1998 18:36:07 -0800 No problem Art! Printed out the plans for the Milward binder today and started pokingaround my parts bins to see what I can cobble up. The plan looks prettystraight forward If you stare at it for a minute.Pretty ingenious device! (Thanks to Bruce Conner for having it available on his Web Page http://cybercom.net/~bconner/rod.html ) Will start cutting for the groove on my rough form as soon as I get acutter and gauge from Grainger. (Next week they say) Oh well, there are a number of fine fishing opportunities right now. This is a GREAT group, with an outstanding signal to noise ratio. (Veryrare on the net) Thanks, -Mark Mark,Sorry , I thought the same thing that Dick thought. Maybe it wasamisreading of your post. I certainly meant no harm and from what I knowofDick (only over the web) he wasn't trying to be nasty. If you want a goodset of forms you can certainly apparently use the Colorado Bootstrapguys(can't say for sure---I got mine FREE from a friend who worked in alargesteel company). We'll keep you in as much info as you can handle (maybemore!).One of the problems of a group like this is we have nobackgroundsof one another and if an early posting seems awry, we may reactprematurelyor inaccurately. Keep at it and you'll see that there was no maliceintended. We all have to go at our own speed and try what works best forus,so some will take shortcuts where others would never consider it. I justspent a 1/2 hr on the phone with a tech at a heat gun mftr trying to getinfo on how to lower his settings so that I can cheap out on an oven thatuses a gun rather than build another more expensive model or reacquaintmyself with the local pizzerias or commercial bakers. I'm sure there areguys who would just build the best and the cost be damned!I've been bothering Dave Price unconscionably about details ofhisMilward binder and he's always been MORE than helpful. This isDEFINITELYthe place to be if you're even thinking of "doing the dirty" and you'llsoonsee that nobody intentionally means disrespect!My best,Art Port from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Feb 25 20:42:24 1998 with SMTP id AAA3841; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 02:41:50 +0000 message Subject: Re: best planing forms? UAA05343 To All, I got a really good look at Lon's forms and they're top notch (no punintended!!)!! I think he gets about $325.00 + shipping. I also had thedistinct honor of speaking with him for a while at the Somerset, NJ Flyfishingshow in January about the art of rodmaking. He was very informative,didn'thold back, just one heck of a nice guy! We must have spent twenty minuteschatting... All that and he doesn't even know me!! As soon as I can scrapethe copper together, I'm going to take the plunge for a set of Lon's planingforms. BTW... I'm not in any way associated with Lon or his business(exceptthat I'll soon be a customer!). In other words..... I'd second Dr. B's motion. Dennis Haftel ----------Try Lon Blauvelt in Maine 207-781-5235. from pat3@home.com Wed Feb 25 20:50:33 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with ESMTP id AAA11440 Subject: unsuscribe unsuscribe pat kelly pat3@home.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 25 21:21:15 1998 Subject: Re: Re: straightening Tony,Your remarks are duly noded if somewhat twisted ;-)Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 25 21:36:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: smooth it out No, but some one on the list has. I'm using a drip-dip tube so the varnishdoesn't stay in it very long. I can't remember the source but I do rememberhis comment about cleaning up afterward.Hank. from richjez@enteract.com Wed Feb 25 21:51:57 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Darryl, Count me in, I would be interested in a CD.Rich Jezioro At 12:38 PM 2/25/98 EST, you wrote:Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from tripp@olywa.net Wed Feb 25 21:58:03 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA18411 for ;Wed, 25 Feb 1998 19:56:44 -0800 Subject: Re: best planing forms? Sounds like Lon has the best bang for buck. I'm gonna give him a call. -Mark To All, I got a really good look at Lon's forms and they're top notch (no punintended!!)!! I think he gets about $325.00 + shipping. I also had thedistinct honor of speaking with him for a while at the Somerset, NJ Flyfishing show in January about the art of rodmaking. He was veryinformative, didn't hold back, just one heck of a nice guy! We must havespent twenty minutes chatting... All that and he doesn't even know me!! As soon as I can scrape the copper together, I'm going to take the plunge with Lon or his business (except that I'll soon be a customer!). In other words..... I'd second Dr. B's motion. Dennis Haftel ----------Try Lon Blauvelt in Maine 207-781-5235. from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Wed Feb 25 22:11:46 1998 mailfep1-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 +0000 (GMT) Subject: 2000 grit wet 'n dry type="54455854"; To all: Our local Walmart had 1200 / 1500 / 2000 grit wet 'n dry paper (a 3Mproduct) in the automotive department -- of course, I purchased all the2000 they had (about 6 bundles) ! Also, they stocked 'Gillespie' mineralspirits in the paint and varnish department -- (recently recommended asa superior product). Thanks for the tip -- I never would have evenconsidered looking at Walmart ! Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from d_price@global2000.net Wed Feb 25 22:13:41 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id XAA05602 for; Wed, 25 Feb 1998 23:13:35 -0500 Subject: WHY Why....Think about all thats involved.......Think about every step youdo to create, what to some think is impossible by hand......and it'swithin the realm of the capabilty of anybody that has the drive tocomplete the steps that are involved.....Some times it seems that you gobackwards and sometimes it seems that great progress ismade.........There is a lot of great writing about flyfishing and greatwriting about bamboo flyfishing, so I won't even try to improvethere(I'm the farthest thing from a writer than one is to what I do)......I love flyfishing, I don't care if I even get a bite.....Justgetting out there and watching the line make it's rounds and enjoyingthe sound of the river is solitude for me......I also love to createwith my hands, always did and always will, they are so sensitive tosurface and texture I swear I can tell wood from metal from plastic andsome thing hand made and something machine made just from feelingit.....My eyes also are very trained, seems like the geometric surfacesthat make up a rod add to it's magnetic lure......It has definition andcharacter.....I saw some this weekend that are flawless and a joy to run your eyes andhands along them.........Working bamboo has had some suprizes for melike the grain pattern that is revealed when you plane a scarf.....oneof the most interesting things I've ever seen(boy am I simple)or thechange in the bamboo when you heat treat, it seems to start out as anoodle (compared to some other materials I work with)and ends up likeceramic but planes easy.......It in it self is remarkable......But mostof all I want to cast it , there all by myself streamside...watch theline fly...and rollover perfectly a small dry on to the surface....whileon the otherside of the stream a red fox sits ....and watches ...andwaits ...and watches and waits....then my rod bends and his ears perkup...he looks up and watches.....as I pull little trout in and take himhome.. Dave Price from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 25 22:18:20 1998 Subject: Re: Why? A.J.,I fished cane as a kid wnen Montagues were $14.95, which to me at thatstage was a lot of money. I guess the cane goes with the rest of themysticwhich started for me on my Uncle's Brookie stream in the Poconos of Pa."Putthe fly in the foam, Hank" and magic! -a Brookie smashed the fly. Beengoin'downhill ever since.I build cane because I tried a 7' for a 4 wgt. that I liked and knew Iwould have to make one comparable as finding a comparable blank was outof thequestion. I've always liked the forgiveness of cane as well as the feel ofthecast. I prefer to use cane to teach as the student gets the "feel " of thecast more readily. I could go on but Ive already run out of 50 words.Regards,Hank Woolman. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Feb 25 22:21:24 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Darryl and Ed,Amen to the irrelevant threads. As far as the cd's are cocerned-soundsgreat. I have a Mac 580CD-would your cd work on it, Darryl?Regards,Hank. from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Feb 25 22:22:03 1998 Subject: RE:HD Plastic RO>Anyone: I am looking for some high density plastic foam for reel spoolRO>modification. Would like it to be as light-wt as practical and still beablRO>to work with it on a lathe. Can anyone direct me to a source thatmight selRO>in small quantities? Any help would be appreciated. On list or off. RO>Thanks in advance,RO>Richard Richard, Are you sure you want plastic foam? Not much there that will be able towithstand machining. Cadillac Plastics is a national company that sellsplastic sheet, tube and rod stock. Try them. (url?) I'd say go with polyethyene or delrin for machinability - glass filledpolycarbonate for high strength and nylon for a part that needs to actas a wear surface. Don Burns from stpete@netten.net Wed Feb 25 22:32:01 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA20080 for Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Sir D, I'd love to be in on the A.A. CD. I'd pay a fin in a jiff. Rick (stpete) from DEMARALON@aol.com Wed Feb 25 22:50:55 1998 Subject: Re: european rodbuilder Just in case you are interested in haveing a supplier of Tonkin Cane we aresending you via snailmail our current price list. If you have any questions- which you very well might - Let us know the quantity desired and thepoint ofdelivery. We would very much like to be of service to you.Cordially, Charles H. Demarest, Inc., Harold Demarest,President from rennygr@ibm.net Wed Feb 25 23:22:49 1998 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA170258 for; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 05:22:46 GMT Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Darryl, Fantastic idea! I'd love to assist you in any way you thought might behelpful, even if only making extra CD copies for mailing, helpingorganize posts, etc. I had recently started a personal database of therodmakers postings in MS Access for my own reference but I am simplydon't feel qualified to design an adequate system that might be usefulto other members on the list. Mike's point about some list contributors considering their remarkssubject to copyright seems well taken & perhaps the biggest stumblingblock. Perhaps such list members would be willing to identifythemselves & suggest a work around. Obviously, at $5 or even $10,nobody is going to get rich off such a venture, but lots would becomewealthy in rodmaker knowledge. Renny from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Thu Feb 26 00:51:22 1998 IAA24925 (EET) Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: RE: Why? Try to find some humor out of this one: I have never touched a bamboo rod. I have never seen a bamboo rod by myown eyes. And, obviously, I have never cast with bamboo rod.BUT, I feel very strongly this is something I have got to do (especially after a couple of beers). As somebody wrote before me, it is in my blood. I just hope to come out with usable rod. Quality etc. comes with experience.I do not ask myself why? I ask myself why not? Seppo.----------From: rodmakers Subject: Why?Date: 25. February 1998 23:10 I would like to see some short(50wds) essays on why members buildbamboo. Perhaps followed by another short essay on why members fish bamboo. My rods are driven by performance criteria derived while fishing. I knowothers are driven by the art of building.A.J.Thramer from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 26 01:21:31 1998 Subject: why A.J.;Interesting question. I was drawn to bamboo in the first place for thesame reason I was drawn to capentry, I like things made of wood morethanthings made of plastic, plastic has no soul. I also have always had anaffinity for old things, old cars, old houses, old furniture.Then Istumbled on Claude Krieders book at a fly shop and thought to myself "Icando this", ordered Waynes book and thought"I can defineately do this". Thesatisfaction that I feel when I see a rod hanging in the drying cabinetafter the last coat of varnish is at least as great as as the one I've feltat standing back and looking at a house I've just built from start tofinish and the charge I get from catching a fish on my own rod is betterthan anything ever sold on the streets in the '60's.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 26 01:26:35 1998 Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:25:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Payne 8'6" Thanks for the taper John. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Troutworld@aol.com Thu Feb 26 01:33:02 1998 Subject: Re:dickfurhman (best planing form) Dear Dick: I just did not want to buy the wrong planing form! I wanted some of theotherexperienced builders advice and opinions and not some opinion on what andhowI should enjoy my life. I have already started to build a rod and love it, itis a hobby and not anything more than that. I am in it for the relaxationandjoys of the finished product. And of course the fishing.So, please in the future keep your opinion to yourself on my questions ! from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 26 01:55:45 1998 Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:55:10 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Why? On Wed, 25 Feb 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: I would like to see some short(50wds) essays on why members buildbamboo. Perhaps followed by another short essay on why members fish bamboo. My rods are driven by performance criteria derived while fishing. I knowothers are driven by the art of building.A.J.Thramer I count myself extremly fortunate to have been born in a time and place when I have always been able to follow my interests as far as I want.In my teens and early twentys I was a rock climber/mountanieer, then apaid deer hunter. Now I enjoy off shore sailing in a wooden boat. Throughout all this I've flyfished. I need to feel a part of my chosen enviroment not just a visitor and a rod made from grass by my own handsis the only kind of rod I can feel is "right". Why climb, hunt, sail and make cane rods? Because they are there to be done and it's somehow important that I do them else sink into the abyss of off the shelf living which is to say not realy living at all.End of navel gaze. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 26 06:57:13 1998 Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:57:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: straightening On Wed, 25 Feb 1998 FISHWOOL@aol.com wrote: Tony,Your remarks are duly noded if somewhat twisted ;-)Hank. Why Hank.... I'm sure I don't know what you mean. ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dhaftel@att.com Thu Feb 26 08:32:41 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 09:32:00-0500 Subject: RE: Payne 8'6" 4.0.995.52 John, Thanks for the taper. Valuable information and much appreciated!! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@frontier.net]Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 11:56 AM Subject: Payne 8'6" All; Payne 8'6" # pc. that I was allowed to measue. No allowance for varnishhasbeen made, the rod looked either refinished or overcoated, it had somelumps in the varnish which are inconsistent with what little I know ofPayne's reputation. Appears to be a solid two coats worth.Tip1-.0685- .09010-.10915-.12920-.13825-.15030-.160just above 1st ferrule wrap- 32.5-.16835-.182(centered under ferrule guide)40-.20145-.21850-.23255- .24260-.256just above second ferrule wrap-64.75-.26270-.28275-.29480- .31285-.32790-.358 (start of hookeeper wrap-grip at 92)guides- 4.5,9.5,15.5,22.5,29.75,36.75,43.5,52,61,70.5,79.5 I have no idea what line weight this rod is, if anyone knows or figures itout, please let me know.BTW, Don Burns: I think that production rod is probably an H-I, too, but itis a much better made rod than the Tonka Prince I have, the Prince is realego food for me, ghastly glue lines, over sanded nodes, no attempt atspacing nodes, you know what I' talking about. This rod has no visible gluelines and even tho I'm sure they used strips from different culms they atleast made sure they weren't next to one another. Enough hot air. I hopeyou all can use the Payne taperJohn Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Feb 26 08:38:01 1998 Subject: Belvoirdale? All, Is it me - or does everyone wait forever for Grahame d'Belvoirdale todeliver stuff? I FAX'ed in my latest thread order just to get quickdelivery - it's been beaucoup weeks without delivery. Plus I don't evenknow if what I ordered is in his remaining stock. (I called 1st - butnever got what I'd call an answer) At least this time, I did remember to ask for no color subs. and nolarge dia. thread in lieu of my requested skinny stuff. Maybe that's whyno delivery? Time to check the MasterCard bill and see if I've beenbilled. #%$#%$%^^ Anyone buy thread directly from YLI - any chance of getting a productionrun of red/black jasper in 3/0 cranked out. Could we put together ablanket order like someone did last year for ferrules? How much threadwould need to be ordered? Threadless in LA, Don PS - Anyone deal in thread futures? Red/black jasper --- 26 3/16 up9/16's? from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Feb 26 08:47:19 1998 Subject: Why? To All,Since my time on the river this past year has been quite limited IfeltIhad to inform someone 'I'm hangen out the sign' for the next two weeks.I'm taking along two of MY new fishing poles (I say that with a littlepride). I've been dreaming of the first lunker terminator that tries tobreak the back of either rod. No matter who wins I will raise a glass intribute. GOD how I love that 10 year old can't sleep the night beforefeeling! So when you ask why, I guess my best response would simplybe.......-GONE FISHING- Gary W. Heidt from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Feb 26 10:36:19 1998 Subject: Re: HD Plastic In a message dated 98-02-26 01:35:48 EST, you write: Thanks Don, will give them a call.Regards,Richard from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Thu Feb 26 10:59:40 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: UF glue and Nodeless Hi all,I'm trying to glue splices with a "Powdered Plastic Resin" from CustomPack, a kind of pre-catalysed urea-formaldeid glue activated by justadding water. 24h after I have glued, I bend the splice joint until break it.The joint breaks clear on the enamel side. It seems that the glue didn'tpenetrate sufficiently near the enamel side. How long I have to waitthe glue to penetrate on the splices before clamp?Regards,Sergio from thramer@presys.com Thu Feb 26 11:44:10 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale? flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: All, Is it me - or does everyone wait forever for Grahame d'Belvoirdale todeliver stuff? I FAX'ed in my latest thread order just to get quickdelivery - it's been beaucoup weeks without delivery. Plus I don't evenknow if what I ordered is in his remaining stock. (I called 1st - butnever got what I'd call an answer) At least this time, I did remember to ask for no color subs. and nolarge dia. thread in lieu of my requested skinny stuff. Maybe that's whyno delivery? Time to check the MasterCard bill and see if I've beenbilled. #%$#%$%^^ Anyone buy thread directly from YLI - any chance of getting a productionrun of red/black jasper in 3/0 cranked out. Could we put together ablanket order like someone did last year for ferrules? How much threadwould need to be ordered? Threadless in LA, Don PS - Anyone deal in thread futures? Red/black jasper --- 26 3/16 up9/16's? YEH! I would be interested in jasper type threads myself. I prefer themon my own rods even though they are not popular with the byuing public.A.J. from thramer@presys.com Thu Feb 26 11:47:43 1998 0000 Subject: THE WHY OF WHY Thanks to all who have and/or will respond to my non building relatedquestion. So far the common thread in my opinion is that all who build are doersnot watchers. It makes me quite happy to be in the same group with all. Thanks,A.J. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 26 11:59:49 1998 MAA20255;Thu, 26 Feb 1998 12:59:47 -0500 Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Sergio Try the same test with Titebond-II and see what kind of results youget waiting the same 24 hours. You can pick up a bottle for under $5. Chris On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 13:59:57 +0000, Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWA wrote: Hi all,I'm trying to glue splices with a "Powdered Plastic Resin" from CustomPack, a kind of pre-catalysed urea-formaldeid glue activated by justadding water. 24h after I have glued, I bend the splice joint until break it.The joint breaks clear on the enamel side. It seems that the glue didn'tpenetrate sufficiently near the enamel side. How long I have to waitthe glue to penetrate on the splices before clamp?Regards,Sergio from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 26 12:14:41 1998 Subject: Re: dickfurhman (best planing form) Perhaps the wrong person is being roasted here. Last year Dick and Imetwhile he was on a vist here in Michigan. In our conversation I shared withDick what I've seen in the lives of those that do this that we do. Fromreading Dick's post it reads much of what I shared with him. I found Dicktobe a kind and life loving person. I would wager that given time if onefollowsthis adventure that most of what Dick said will unfold before you. If thatvision doesn't set well at least now you can focus your distain at thesource. Wayne from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 26 13:19:04 1998 Subject: Reducing Heat Output In catching up on the post of the last few weeks I saw where one wastrying to reduce the output of a heat gun. There are a couple of solutionsboth involue reducing the voltage being input into the unit. Commericallythere are some rheostats that plug into an outlet and then the device putsinto it. But a home brew method could be this. Wire a light socket in serieswith the unit and use different wattage bulbs until the desired heat outputisreached. The path of the wiring would be this. from the plug at the wallrun ablack wire from the narrower plug to one screw on a light fixture thenfromthe second screw of the light fixture run another black wire to the narrowterminal of a outlet. The white wire is run from the wider plug directly tothe wider plug of the outlet. Then plug the heat gun into the new outletpastthe light fixture. Change wattage bulbs as needed. Wayne from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Thu Feb 26 13:19:31 1998 Subject: Hollow Built rods I recently had to good fortune to acquire an E.C. Powell hollow built 8'4wt. I'd like to put it through Hexrod, but I got to thinking that thehollow construction would probably have an effect on the calculations.Does anyone have any insight into what the effect might be and how tocompensate for it? from ishikawa@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Thu Feb 26 13:33:02 1998 Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Chris,Thanks for your info. I doubt I have Tidebond-II here in Brazil, sorryto not tell that. Can you give me some info about its component?Who makes it?Sergio from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Feb 26 14:11:30 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 26 Feb 98 15:00:40 EST Subject: Why I love the smell of old cane, and this one in particular. It's a richchesnut with gold threads, a cork grip clearly showing a range of age.Imperfect in it's now weathered finish, and guides that cast off abit toone side or the other showing their wear. The storage tube is scuffedand dented, and the cotton bag worn thin. I fish the Kosmic Flycaster eachyear now in the early spring. I remember those years at the clubhousepool, a time that for me is always associated with the screaching calls ofred-winged blackbirds, beautiful in their incessence. In those early yearsIfished like the red wings -- incessently. My dad would have caught hisbrace of fish early on, and by mid- morning I'd find him napping in thepickup, a habit I too have recently acquired although back then I couldn'tunderstand why he would "give up" prime fishing time. The Kosmic was passed along to me a few years ago; it sits here nowalong with bunch of other cane, some his, some I've acquired over theyears. One I acquired in 1964 on my paper route. I remember trading JohnBiron a hunting knife with a deer foot handle for the rod I thought was themost beautiful cane I had ever seen. I still have it, and a decal "Old Joe". The tip has been broken a few times now, which had the effectof removing some of that odd S-curve that once graced it. I rememberbringing it home. My dad laughed and said:"We'll go to the club this weekend. Don't tell your mother." I take no offense to modern graphite and use it often. Fact is I likethose 9 footers. They are fine to cast, very efficient. Not pretty butfunctional. I took my first Atlantic salmon on that "first generation"Sage 9.5 for an 8 weight, and with the Powell graphites I have all sorts ofpleasant associations, of fish found and lost, of river scenes, and distantwinds. But when I open a tube and smell that old varnish, well then I hearthe red-wings again. --Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Feb 26 14:12:57 1998 Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Sergio - I don't think you have to wait, but remember that this glue haspractically no gap filling properties. The joint must be tight and wellclamped. Temperature is important. You should be over 70 degrees F, and80would be much better. You might also try scuffing up the mating surfaceswithsandpaper to improve penetration. If you got the glue from Custom-pak,youshould have a fresh batch. As you use it, make sure that it completelydissolves. If there are any light colored particles that feel hard and won'tdissolve, the glue is beyond it's shelf life.I think Chris is right. If you can get the Titebond II, you will have aneasier time. If you can't, this is an effective glue, but must be used withcare. I have some furnitune 25 years old that was glued with it, and I havealso used it in boat masts, oars, and other projects. from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 26 14:15:22 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA17958 for Subject: Re: Reducing Heat Output At 02:17 PM 2/26/98 EST, you wrote:In catching up on the post of the last few weeks I saw where one wastrying to reduce the output of a heat gun. There are a couple of solutionsboth involue reducing the voltage being input into the unit. Commericallythere are some rheostats that plug into an outlet and then the device putsinto it. But a home brew method could be this. Wire a light socket inserieswith the unit and use different wattage bulbs until the desired heatoutput isreached. The path of the wiring would be this. from the plug at the wallrun ablack wire from the narrower plug to one screw on a light fixture thenfromthe second screw of the light fixture run another black wire to thenarrowterminal of a outlet. The white wire is run from the wider plug directlytothe wider plug of the outlet. Then plug the heat gun into the new outletpastthe light fixture. Change wattage bulbs as needed. Wayne Wayne,I'm the guy who was casting around for the temp reducer. Yours iscertainly the easiest-to-try suggestion I've heard yet! My only concern iswhether the lowered input will kill the fan motor. That's not a big problemunless there's a better solution. The reason I say that is if I burn thething out I'll have to replace it with one that does the job:if I can'tlower the temp, I'll have to replace it with one that does the job. The onlydisaster would be if I find out, after burning it up and replacing it, thatI could have used an alternative to get it to work right! Thanks for the suggestion. Unless I hear from someone knowledgeable( about the burn-the-motor question) soon, that's the way I'm trying first!Art from dhaftel@att.com Thu Feb 26 14:55:08 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 15:43:14-0500 Subject: RE: Reducing Heat Output 4.0.995.52 Wayne & Art, My limited experience with electric motors is that if you don't give amotor what it wants, it shows it's resentment by self destructing! Ihad that happen with an air conditioner compressor in the hottest partof the summer. I would assume the same would happen to the heat gunwhen YOU need it most. What you might wanna try (though I haven't done this) is use a dryerhose to increase the distance the air has to travel, thus allowing it tocool on its way to the "oven". You can tune & tweak to get the optimumtemp. This way you don't fry your gun. Theoretically, of course! Just my $0.02... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Art Port [SMTP:anglport@con2.com]Sent: Thursday, February 26, 1998 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Reducing Heat Output At 02:17 PM 2/26/98 EST, you wrote:In catching up on the post of the last few weeks I saw where one wastrying to reduce the output of a heat gun. There are a couple of solutionsboth involue reducing the voltage being input into the unit. Commericallythere are some rheostats that plug into an outlet and then the deviceputsinto it. But a home brew method could be this. Wire a light socket inserieswith the unit and use different wattage bulbs until the desired heatoutputisreached. The path of the wiring would be this. from the plug at the wallrunablack wire from the narrower plug to one screw on a light fixture thenfromthe second screw of the light fixture run another black wire to thenarrowterminal of a outlet. The white wire is run from the wider plug directlytothe wider plug of the outlet. Then plug the heat gun into the new outletpastthe light fixture. Change wattage bulbs as needed. Wayne Wayne,I'm the guy who was casting around for the temp reducer. Yours iscertainly the easiest-to-try suggestion I've heard yet! My only concern iswhether the lowered input will kill the fan motor. That's not a bigproblemunless there's a better solution. The reason I say that is if I burn thething out I'll have to replace it with one that does the job:if I can'tlower the temp, I'll have to replace it with one that does the job. The onlydisaster would be if I find out, after burning it up and replacing it, thatI could have used an alternative to get it to work right! Thanks for the suggestion. Unless I hear from someoneknowledgeable( about the burn-the-motor question) soon, that's the way I'm trying first!Art from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Thu Feb 26 14:55:36 1998 0000 Subject: RE: Why???? here's my story..... Last winter, while searching the web for info on graphite rod building, icame across Rodamkers. from there, i found links to many pages whichexplained or showed the processes involved in making a bamboo rod. Themore i studied them, the more i thought "hey, i could probably do that".Slowly i gathered up tools with the help of my dad and grandfather, and bylast summer i was beginning my first rod. My setup was very basic,probably as basic as you could get, but boy did i ever have fun. All day, iwas planing and splitting away, dreaming and wondering if i'd ever get arod finished. Finally, after many months with few successes and manyfailures, i had succeded, i had made my first rod. i thought it was themost beautiful thing at the time, but looking at it now, i see how bad itreally was. i quickly started another and then another. I now havecompleted 3 rods, and have started #4 and 5. Every one is a learningexperiance and challenge to me. i guess i first started building thembecause it was kind of a "what's next" situation. i had taught myself howto tie, then it was graphite rods, now bamboo. I guess the question reallyis what's next after this?? i started building them not so much because iwas obsessed with bamboo or loved fishing it, but i really wanted to feelagreat sense of accomplishment and pride while fishing a rod that I built.My basic priciple has remained the same, i build them for a sense ofaccomplishment, though i now truely love fishing them. another reason is that last winter i was almost killed in a caraccident....a truck ran a red light going 70mph and made impact about 2 ftbehind me.....the police said if he had hit up 2ft, i'd be dead.....justknowing that i could have died made me want to do something like this.....ifigured i might as well start soon, because you never know how muchlongeryou're going to be around to carry out your dreams...... BTW....just curious, am i pulling up the rear of this group at age 16?? Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 26 15:04:15 1998 Subject: Re: Reducing Heat Output Art -I am QUESSING that the fan will take about a 10 - 15 % reduction involtagewithout damage. However if you want to maintain proper voltage to thefan diginto the unit and series just the heat element circuit. At best it is a T & Eeffort to determine what heat output you need. But I know from a rocketscience formula that by reducing the voltage by 1/2 the heat output isreducedto 1/4. Wayne from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Thu Feb 26 15:04:54 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Thomas,Thanks for the info. I'll try that and let everybody know the results.I am alos thinking if Tidebond-II has another name here.Sergio On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 TSmithwick@aol.com wrote: Sergio - I don't think you have to wait, but remember that this glue haspractically no gap filling properties. The joint must be tight and wellclamped. Temperature is important. You should be over 70 degrees F, and80would be much better. You might also try scuffing up the mating surfaceswithsandpaper to improve penetration. If you got the glue from Custom-pak,youshould have a fresh batch. As you use it, make sure that it completelydissolves. If there are any light colored particles that feel hard andwon'tdissolve, the glue is beyond it's shelf life.I think Chris is right. If you can get the Titebond II, you will have aneasier time. If you can't, this is an effective glue, but must be used withcare. I have some furnitune 25 years old that was glued with it, and Ihavealso used it in boat masts, oars, and other projects. from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Thu Feb 26 15:11:36 1998 Subject: Re:Belvoirdale PAA08292 Me Too I would be interested in some red & black silk if anyonecanorganise an order. However I have also tried to make my on mixedcoloursilk and the results are not that bad even if I say so myself. What I did was get two contrasting reels of gossimery fly tying silk andtie the two ends together. I reeled out about 3 feet of both colours andtied that end together also.I then placed one end of the silks into my fly tying dubbing twister andheld the far end in my fingers and spun the twister around until the twosilks were smoothly intertwined.After this I directly wrapped the rod with the twine, taking care never torelease the tention on the twin and thus keep it twisted togetheruniformly. After the fourth or fifth go the results are almost as good as Elephantsilk and it a lot cheaper. I am sure with some practice very pleaseingresults will follow. Mick. Woodruff. from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Thu Feb 26 15:11:53 1998 Subject: Annotated Archives on CD PAA20154 Great Idea. Count Me in for a CD Thanks Mick Woodruff from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 26 15:29:13 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA24509 for Subject: RE: Reducing Heat Output Dennis,That would make a lot of sense to ME (the dryer hose) but the extremelyhelpful tech at Steinel said that pumping the gun into the 7" diam.followed volume) was already asking a helluva lot from a gun! (Actually, 1.34 cu.ft.doesn't sound like much to me but this guy seemed really aware of heatguns'abilities.)Maybe it had to do with the radiating abilities of that muchmetalwork(?).Thanks for the warning though,Art At 03:43 PM 2/26/98 -0500, you wrote:Wayne & Art, My limited experience with electric motors is that if you don't give amotor what it wants, it shows it's resentment by self destructing! Ihad that happen with an air conditioner compressor in the hottest partof the summer. I would assume the same would happen to the heat gunwhen YOU need it most. What you might wanna try (though I haven't done this) is use a dryerhose to increase the distance the air has to travel, thus allowing it tocool on its way to the "oven". You can tune & tweak to get the optimumtemp. This way you don't fry your gun. Theoretically, of course! Just my $0.02... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Art Port [SMTP:anglport@con2.com]Sent: Thursday, February 26, 1998 3:34 PM Subject: Re: Reducing Heat Output At 02:17 PM 2/26/98 EST, you wrote:In catching up on the post of the last few weeks I saw where onewastrying to reduce the output of a heat gun. There are a couple ofsolutionsboth involue reducing the voltage being input into the unit.Commericallythere are some rheostats that plug into an outlet and then the deviceputsinto it. But a home brew method could be this. Wire a light socket inserieswith the unit and use different wattage bulbs until the desired heatoutputisreached. The path of the wiring would be this. from the plug at the wallrunablack wire from the narrower plug to one screw on a light fixture thenfromthe second screw of the light fixture run another black wire to thenarrowterminal of a outlet. The white wire is run from the wider plug directlytothe wider plug of the outlet. Then plug the heat gun into the new outletpastthe light fixture. Change wattage bulbs as needed. Wayne Wayne,I'm the guy who was casting around for the temp reducer. Yours iscertainly the easiest-to-try suggestion I've heard yet! My only concerniswhether the lowered input will kill the fan motor. That's not a bigproblemunless there's a better solution. The reason I say that is if I burn thething out I'll have to replace it with one that does the job:if I can'tlower the temp, I'll have to replace it with one that does the job. Theonlydisaster would be if I find out, after burning it up and replacing it, thatI could have used an alternative to get it to work right! Thanks for the suggestion. Unless I hear from someoneknowledgeable( about the burn-the-motor question) soon, that's the way I'm tryingfirst!Art from hall@Summa4.COM Thu Feb 26 15:32:51 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 120- 40365U700L2S100)with SMTP id AAA20616 for ;Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:32:49 -0500 199821:32:48 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA22937 for ;Thu, 26 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA14579 for Subject: Re: Reducing Heat Output Hi All,In-line with this hot air hose, on could mount a "Y" connector. Theinput of the "Y" is the gun. At one of the 2 outputs, is the heatingchamber. At the other output, is a value. Adjust the heat into thechamber by regulating how much air goes out the value (and hence thevalue position).If you-all think this is worthy, then we only need to come up with thehose/connector/value material. Would 1.5 inch copper pipe (insulated) beworthy? Regards,Dan Wayne & Art, My limited experience with electric motors is that if you don't give amotor what it wants, it shows it's resentment by self destructing! Ihad that happen with an air conditioner compressor in the hottest partof the summer. I would assume the same would happen to the heat gunwhen YOU need it most. What you might wanna try (though I haven't done this) is use a dryerhose to increase the distance the air has to travel, thus allowing it tocool on its way to the "oven". You can tune & tweak to get the optimumtemp. This way you don't fry your gun. Theoretically, of course! Just my $0.02... Dennis Haftel from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 26 15:43:54 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA25663 for Subject: Re: Reducing Heat Output At 03:05 PM 2/26/98 EST, you wrote:Art -I am QUESSING that the fan will take about a 10 - 15 % reduction involtagewithout damage. However if you want to maintain proper voltage to thefan diginto the unit and series just the heat element circuit. At best it is a T &Eeffort to determine what heat output you need. But I know from a rocketscience formula that by reducing the voltage by 1/2 the heat output isreducedto 1/4. Wayne Wayne,Thanks for the ratio. The guy from Steinel says I can't just cutinto the wires after the printed circuit without modifying the wholeelectronic setup. That's why I called him in the first place (I thought a"cut-and-paste" solution would do the trick). He's sending me theschematicso I can screw with it on my own, but he maintained that just putting arheostat in series with the coils wouldn't do what I wanted. All I reallywanted from him was a reading of which color insulatiom controlledwhichelement. The worst thing he told me was that the coils are "tandem-ized"andI would have to deal with parts of the heat source since they cut in insequence. I'm waiting for that schematic (which he says won't have thedamned colors on it anyway!) before I do anything drastic. I'm notintimidated by using an ohmmeter or a VOM, but if he says when I find it Ican't effectively jump something into it, what good is my knowledge?He may merely be too high tech for us and is over protecting me dueto his perception of cane rods as a " high-quality" product (his words) buthe also warned me against trying to measure the temp of the gun using athermometer! Something about a "iron- constant concept" he keptmentioning asa METER for gauging MOVING air.Please don't think I'm "Yes-but"ing you. I'm carefully amassing allthis stuff 'til I can formulate a sound decision.Thanks,Art from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 26 15:55:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA26612 for Subject: Re: Reducing Heat Output Dan,Clickety-clickety-click... I think this group is the greatest thingsince sliced bread. When I started this planing stuff, everything wastrial-and-error or bother one of the EXTREMELY few fellows who wereavailable to answer questions----over and over and over.....(This wasbeforeYOUR book came out Wayne and while I've already said what a nice guyHoagywas to me, how many times can you visit a guy and pound him withquestions,even if you DID buy his book!) It's wonderful to be able to bounce ideas offthis many knowledgeable people at once! The first time I asked awoodworker can't get WOOD to accuracies of thousandths of an INCH. That's metalaccuracy!" At least with this bunch, we're all comparing apples to apples!Art At 04:33 PM 2/26/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi All,In-line with this hot air hose, on could mount a "Y" connector. Theinput of the "Y" is the gun. At one of the 2 outputs, is the heatingchamber. At the other output, is a value. Adjust the heat into thechamber by regulating how much air goes out the value (and hence thevalue position).If you-all think this is worthy, then we only need to come up withthehose/connector/value material. Would 1.5 inch copper pipe (insulated) beworthy? Regards,Dan Wayne & Art, My limited experience with electric motors is that if you don't give amotor what it wants, it shows it's resentment by self destructing! Ihad that happen with an air conditioner compressor in the hottest partof the summer. I would assume the same would happen to the heat gunwhen YOU need it most. What you might wanna try (though I haven't done this) is use a dryerhose to increase the distance the air has to travel, thus allowing it tocool on its way to the "oven". You can tune & tweak to get the optimumtemp. This way you don't fry your gun. Theoretically, of course! Just my $0.02... Dennis Haftel from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Feb 26 16:03:56 1998 16:03:56 -0600 R8.11.00.3) Subject: Re[2]: Reducing Heat Output Dennis,That would make a lot of sense to ME (the dryer hose) but the extremely helpful tech at Steinel said that pumping the gun into the 7" diam.followed volume) was already asking a helluva lot from a gun! (Actually, 1.34 cu.ft. doesn't sound like much to me but this guy seemed really aware of heatguns' abilities.)Maybe it had to do with the radiating abilities of that much metalwork(?).Thanks for the warning though,Art Art and Dennis,If you are referring to the oven design I previously posted, the above statement is true if it is not insulated. My first test of the system was before I built an insulating box for it. With max. heat input I got it up to about 175 degrees F (input temp 1100 degrees) and then quit. When you insulate it sufficiently the heat loss is minimal and this brings you back to your orignial discussion regarding needing heat reduction/adjustability for your gun. Using the finished product oven, my gun (the infinitely adjustable type) had the diode/light temperature output reading (not a real specific/accurate indicator, admittedly) only about 20 degrees higher than the attained inner tube temp when it equilibrated and was measured with an accurate thermometer. This gun (the Sears industrial model) has WAY more heat output than is needed for bamboo tempering using this oven.Cheers.Jon from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 26 16:26:55 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA29283 for Subject: Re: Re[2]: Reducing Heat Output Jon,You're apparently the fellow I've been trolling for! I had NO idea there wasthat kind of potential loss from the gun to the section holder. If my gunputs out 1000 degs (I think it does at peak) I may be able to control theoven's temp by the amount of insulation I apply (or even the size of thechimney)! Maybe my hunt for a rheostat-type control is a uselesswildgoosechase. I might have found a way to lower the output and spent all my timeinvain! I'm not touching a damn thing 'til I've built the oven and stuck thegun in its "schnozz". You may have saved me a HELL of a lot of work andexpense!Thanks,Art At 04:09 PM 2/26/98 -0600, you wrote: Dennis,That would make a lot of sense to ME (the dryer hose) but the extremely helpful tech at Steinel said that pumping the gun into the 7" diam.followed volume) was already asking a helluva lot from a gun! (Actually, 1.34 cu.ft. doesn't sound like much to me but this guy seemed really aware of heatguns' abilities.)Maybe it had to do with the radiating abilities of that much metalwork(?).Thanks for the warning though,Art Art and Dennis,If you are referring to the oven design I previously posted, the above statement is true if it is not insulated. My first test of the system was before I built an insulating box for it. With max. heat input I got it up to about 175 degrees F (input temp 1100 degrees) and then quit. When you insulate it sufficiently the heat loss is minimal and this brings you back to your orignial discussion regarding needing heat reduction/adjustability for your gun. Using the finished product oven, my gun (the infinitely adjustable type) had the diode/light temperature output reading (not a real specific/accurate indicator, admittedly) only about 20 degrees higher than the attained inner tube temp when it equilibrated and was measured with an accurate thermometer. This gun (the Sears industrial model) has WAY more heat output than is needed for bamboo tempering using this oven.Cheers.Jon from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Thu Feb 26 17:08:49 1998 (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise) id 00000217; Thu, 26 Feb 9817:04:59-0600 Subject: Re[4]: Reducing Heat Output Art, I think that on a practical basis you will have trouble fine-tuning the amount of insulation in the box holding the metal oven tubes. Its just too much work to wrap it and take it apart and change it. I do think you could modify some of the previous ideas and have an uninsulated tube leading to the input hole in the end of the oven and then sequentially insulate this "heat loss component" to adjust the temperature. If you have read my description of the oven and its testing you will note that when I built it my first test was on full power and it had a wood end plate touching the metal tubes. This scorched the hell out of the wood end plate and I replaced it with a metal sheet. So, the take home message is... don't run your gun at full power in the insulated oven or you may burn it up!!! Start as low as you can and take it up in whatever increments you can and follow the temp so it doesn't get too hot. You may ultimately find that the easiest solution is to bite the bullet and get an infinitely adjustable gun. Then, you can play around with different heating regimens fairly easily.Good luck.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Re[2]: Reducing Heat OutputAuthor: Art Port at Internet-Mail Jon,You're apparently the fellow I've been trolling for! I had NO idea there was that kind of potential loss from the gun to the section holder. If my gun puts out 1000 degs (I think it does at peak) I may be able to control the oven's temp by the amount of insulation I apply (or even the size of the chimney)! Maybe my hunt for a rheostat-type control is a uselesswildgoose chase. I might have found a way to lower the output and spent all my timein vain! I'm not touching a damn thing 'til I've built the oven and stuck thegun in its "schnozz". You may have saved me a HELL of a lot of work andexpense!Thanks,Art At 04:09 PM 2/26/98 -0600, you wrote: Dennis,That would make a lot of sense to ME (the dryer hose) but the extremely helpful tech at Steinel said that pumping the gun into the 7" diam.followed volume) was already asking a helluva lot from a gun! (Actually, 1.34 cu.ft. doesn't sound like much to me but this guy seemed really aware of heatguns' abilities.)Maybe it had to do with the radiating abilities of that much metalwork(?).Thanks for the warning though, Art Art and Dennis,If you are referring to the oven design I previously posted, the above statement is true if it is not insulated. My first test of the system was before I built an insulating box for it. With max. heat input I got it up to about 175 degrees F (input temp 1100 degrees) and then quit. When you insulate it sufficiently the heat loss is minimal and this brings you back to your orignial discussion regarding needing heat reduction/adjustability for your gun. Using the finished product oven, my gun (the infinitely adjustable type) had the diode/light temperature output reading (not a real specific/accurate indicator, admittedly) only about 20 degrees higher than the attained inner tube temp when it equilibrated and was measured with an accurate thermometer. This gun (the Sears industrial model) has WAY more heat output than is needed for bamboo tempering using this oven.Cheers.Jon from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Thu Feb 26 17:26:22 1998 Subject: RE: Re[4]: Reducing Heat Output I believe in the last Planing Form there was a review of a heat-gunbased oven. The gun used was a Milwaukee that evidently could be set toprovide a wide range of temps. Of course it's probably not cheap. Art,you mentioned varying the size of the exhaust chimney, maybe you couldrig a baffle in the chimney that would allow you to control the flow ofair and thus have a crude control of the temp. If one chimney wasn'tenough, maybe two would do. -----Original Message-----From: mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu[SMTP:mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu]Sent: Thursday, February 26, 1998 3:06 PM Subject: Re[4]: Reducing Heat Output Art, I think that on a practical basis you will havetrouble fine-tuning the amount of insulation in the box holding themetal oven tubes. Its just too much work to wrap it and take it apartand change it. I do think you could modify some of the previous ideasand have an uninsulated tube leading to the input hole in the end ofthe oven and then sequentially insulate this "heat loss component" toadjust the temperature. If you have read my description of the ovenand its testing you will note that when I built it my first testwas on full power and it had a wood end plate touching the metal tubes.This scorched the hell out of the wood end plate and I replacedit with a metal sheet. So, the take home message is... don't run yourgun at full power in the insulated oven or you may burn it up!!!Start as low as you can and take it up in whatever increments you canand follow the temp so it doesn't get too hot. You may ultimately findthat the easiest solution is to bite the bullet and get aninfinitely adjustable gun. Then, you can play around with differentheating regimens fairly easily.Good luck.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Re[2]: Reducing Heat OutputAuthor: Art Port at Internet-MailDate: 2/26/98 5:45 PM Jon,You're apparently the fellow I've been trolling for! I had NO that kind of potential loss from the gun to the section holder.If my gun puts out 1000 degs (I think it does at peak) I may be able tocontrol the oven's temp by the amount of insulation I apply (or even thesize of the chimney)! Maybe my hunt for a rheostat-type control is a uselesswildgoose chase. I might have found a way to lower the output and spentall my time in vain! I'm not touching a damn thing 'til I've built the oven andstuck thegun in its "schnozz". You may have saved me a HELL of a lot ofwork and expense!Thanks,Art At 04:09 PM 2/26/98 -0600, you wrote: Dennis,That would make a lot of sense to ME (the dryer hose) but theextremely helpful tech at Steinel said that pumping the gun into the 7"diam. followed feet of volume) was already asking a helluva lot from a gun! (Actually,1.34 cu.ft. doesn't sound like much to me but this guy seemed really awareof heat guns' abilities.)Maybe it had to do with the radiating abilities ofthat much metalwork(?).Thanks for the warning though, Art Art and Dennis,If you are referring to the oven design I previouslyposted, the above statement is true if it is not insulated. My first test ofthe system was before I built an insulating box for it. With max.heat input I got it up to about 175 degrees F (input temp 1100 degrees)and then quit. When you insulate it sufficiently the heat loss isminimal and this brings you back to your orignial discussion regardingneeding heat reduction/adjustability for your gun. Using thefinished product oven, my gun (the infinitely adjustable type) had thediode/light temperature output reading (not a real specific/accurateindicator, admittedly) only about 20 degrees higher than the attainedinner tube temp when it equilibrated and was measured with anaccurate thermometer. This gun (the Sears industrial model) has WAYmore heat output than is needed for bamboo tempering using thisoven.Cheers.Jon from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Thu Feb 26 17:34:05 1998 emf h9451015; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 00:33:55 +0100 00:32:51+0100 Subject: AW: UF glue and Nodeless =_NextPart_000_01BD4317.3C84D910" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4317.3C84D910 ----------Von: Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWAGesendet: Donnerstag, 26. Februar 1998 14:59An: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduBetreff: UF glue and Nodeless Hi all,I'm trying to glue splices with a "Powdered Plastic Resin" from CustomPack, a kind of pre-catalysed urea-formaldeid glue activated by justadding water. 24h after I have glued, I bend the splice joint until break it.The joint breaks clear on the enamel side. It seems that the glue didn'tpenetrate sufficiently near the enamel side. How long I have to waitthe glue to penetrate on the splices before clamp?Regards,Sergio Hello Sergio,I am also building knotless rods.Up to now I have built 20 rods.I have never had a problem with breaking splices.I use another type of glue.It is a kind of epoxid.I do not knowif it is avaliable in the USA.The name is UHU 300.I am sure you will find something similar.This stuff works very good for me.You can increase the boundingof the splices by heat threatment.I think that on the one handthis is a big advantage. On the other hand the negative aspect is thatthe glue line will be destroyed by heat treatment of the finished section You will have no problem with penetration.If the glue is too sticky I heat it with an hot air gun and the glue turns in a warter consistance.I like this kind of glues it is easy to work with it.Mayby you will also like it. good luck ALEX HUBER ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4317.3C84D910 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 O7c3gDxQB0BzJYBi5nUDEEXTa24gIDgSMRLwcy5VcDzSXrAH4Ec1/14SBUAB0F8kXQdHUyswR3D/BcARwDewPjAgAQJgTfA91P9J8zyiPWVhaDJAN3IgIBTw3VGBeU/gQcI3Qi5NoQQA4UFZZXBveEOwZwBPAPdfwgVAXqF3CoUGkEpBZzM/RHAdwAGgOBBKQEx0VVMcQS5K8kziZzJVSFXwIDMwMGhxXZFQgFch/nkIYD3RFREeMDehCoVd4P8HgD4AZDMHcAMQCsBKeGdBfytgUJE90AWwS9FicUTgZ55vBHA/0AWxB4AuWW2R/0JAA6ALgAUAQwBlkUiCBuD/SZBF0gqFQdFWK0TgFPBOU/1C8XQHgAIwaHFvEkowTjP/TGUCIDdwEcAo4FQnZ0FnQ/xiaTzARbBEcAIwK4BNcf5Pd8Vl83hiSHMrMDHhRGD/N3E9YCBCZ0FOMlQuHcB4MZ9tw0gwTwAHkDTgb3lEpP915HZWdLZuEQQAFPA3sBHwv0RBAiAKhXISK2F5wGggMPhuLihyhmihafFeEAVAL3FzcXNCQDTxdRUQeSn/CoVygm3DYgRVMWMqT+aCQX9hZ3TUN0N9AnHQcKE9kGu/ROBHMXXyafE95AOgaGjh+wtwBcBnSZA3g1SYCHAGMf9q8T4wCoVGIAAgRwEFoACB/ythcxAyEF0HHcAxcHkEQYb/N0J5QWcjc0FE4FOycSE91PFKWE1heUTRbYddw5DjP0pYCoVxwwpAQSATcExFwlglkFVCRVIzJxvVFyAGCoUWwQCakAAAAAMAEBAAAAAAAwAREAAAAABAAAcwwMeyV9pCvQFAAAgwwMeyV9pCvQEeAD0AAQAAAAUAAABBVzogAAAAAAMADTT9NwAApg4= ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4317.3C84D910-- from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 26 17:42:56 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04489 for Subject: Re: Re[4]: Reducing Heat Output Jon,You're probably right about the new gun. It's just that I'm frugal enough togive the old one a try first. Your design is definitely the way I'm going soeither way I'll get an oven out of the deal. The trouble is that I think mylow setting is way too low to be of any use and so, dropping the top onewith your attenuater idea is probably the best (potential) solution. Maybe Ican couple Wayne's series reduction idea for a 10% cut together with yourcontrolled- heat-loss entry pipe. This is all going into the file I'mamassing for when the tin work is done. I can't see experimenting withknock-ups when they may have no relationship with the final product.Art ps: One more thing: will Glenlivet do it or do you recommend a strongerstrain? At 05:06 PM 2/26/98 -0600, you wrote:Art, I think that on a practical basis you will have trouble fine-tuning the amount of insulation in the box holding the metal oven tubes. Its just too much work to wrap it and take it apart and change it. I do think you could modify some of the previous ideas and have an uninsulated tube leading to the input hole in the end of the oven and then sequentially insulate this "heat loss component" to adjust the temperature. If you have read my description of the oven and its testing you will note that when I built it my first test was on full power and it had a wood end plate touching the metal tubes. This scorched the hell out of the wood end plate and I replaced it with a metal sheet. So, the take home message is... don't run your gun at full power in the insulated oven or you may burn it up!!! Start as low as you can and take it up in whatever increments you can and follow the temp so it doesn't get too hot. You may ultimately find that the easiest solution is to bite the bullet and get an infinitely adjustable gun. Then, you can play around with different heating regimens fairly easily.Good luck.Jon McAnulty ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Re[2]: Reducing Heat OutputAuthor: Art Port at Internet-MailDate: 2/26/98 5:45 PM Jon,You're apparently the fellow I've been trolling for! I had NO idea there was that kind of potential loss from the gun to the section holder. If my gun puts out 1000 degs (I think it does at peak) I may be able to control the oven's temp by the amount of insulation I apply (or even the size of the chimney)! Maybe my hunt for a rheostat-type control is a uselesswildgoose chase. I might have found a way to lower the output and spent all my timein vain! I'm not touching a damn thing 'til I've built the oven and stuck thegun in its "schnozz". You may have saved me a HELL of a lot of work andexpense!Thanks,Art At 04:09 PM 2/26/98 -0600, you wrote: Dennis,That would make a lot of sense to ME (the dryer hose) but the extremely helpful tech at Steinel said that pumping the gun into the 7" diam.followed volume) was already asking a helluva lot from a gun! (Actually, 1.34cu.ft. doesn't sound like much to me but this guy seemed really aware of heatguns' abilities.)Maybe it had to do with the radiating abilities of that much metalwork(?).Thanks for the warning though, Art Art and Dennis,If you are referring to the oven design I previously posted, the above statement is true if it is not insulated. My first test of the system was before I built an insulating box for it. With max. heat input I got it up to about 175 degrees F (input temp 1100 degrees) and then quit. When you insulate it sufficiently the heat loss is minimal and this brings you back to your orignial discussion regarding needing heat reduction/adjustability for your gun. Using the finished product oven, my gun (the infinitely adjustable type) had the diode/light temperature output reading (not a real specific/accurate indicator, admittedly) only about 20 degrees higher than the attained inner tube temp when it equilibrated and was measured with an accurate thermometer. This gun (the Sears industrial model) has WAY moreheat output than is needed for bamboo tempering using this oven.Cheers.Jon from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Feb 26 17:58:18 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods In a message dated 2/26/98 11:21:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com writes: hollow construction would probably have an effect on the calculations.Does anyone have any insight into what the effect might be and how tocompensate for it? Hollow construction will reduce the weight of the bamboo. In thecalculations of stress curves the weight is derived from thespecific gravity of bamboo and the volume of each inch long section.You will have to estimate how much bamboo was removed, andprobably the easiest thing to do would be to reduce the specificgravity number accordingly (if half the bamboo was removed, halve the SG term). Darryl Hayashida from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Feb 26 17:58:34 1998 Subject: deal of century Just wondered if anybody could use some really big Super Z ferrules. Acouplebucks apiece. These are bronze, size 20/21(i.e. 21/64 on the female and 20/64 male)and21/22, about 1/2 doz. of each. They are too big for anything but salmon orsaltwater rods, or maybe a large multi-section, but I refuse to throwthemout. My concept is that if somebody is tooling up their home machine shop andneedsa ferrule this size, you could use it as a pattern for making the- proportionally smaller- upper ferrule(s). I'd just like to see them put togood use rather than to make whistles. E-mail me off-list if you're interested. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Feb 26 18:01:01 1998 Subject: Re: THE WHY OF WHY Dear AJ Some of my earliest recollections are of the crew who hung out at myGrandpa'sbarber shop in Joplin, Missouri in the '50s of my childhood. I rememberthemas war heroes to a man, great Boy Scout leaders and all- around fishermenforwhom income and social background were incidental things and had verylittleinfluence on their standing amongst the bretheren. A legendary figure from this cohort was "Doc" (although it was rumoredthat hefixed sporting events, he may simply have been a physician) whose skillwith a.22 pistol was such that he could kill squirrels with offhand head shots. Hisother claim to fame was his ownership of a "fine fly rod". Though I can'tremember the brand, I will never forget how that rod came to life when Igripped it or the way Doc could just flick his wrist and a minute puff offurand down would settle silently between the reeds. I build rods to get rich, not by selling them but by giving them away:firstlybecause there's no way I could make enough money to buy the feeling ofextravagance it gives me; secondly because rods made for sale demandthat youspend only the required amount of time and materials required to get yourprice. And while I acknowledge that most guys can't spend all their non- fishinghoursmaking fancy toys without any prospect of financial return... Well, I guessit's a good thing I have such exceptional luck with the horses! Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 26 18:15:11 1998 Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:15:02 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWA wrote: Hi all,I'm trying to glue splices with a "Powdered Plastic Resin" from CustomPack, a kind of pre-catalysed urea-formaldeid glue activated by justadding water. 24h after I have glued, I bend the splice joint until breakit.The joint breaks clear on the enamel side. It seems that the glue didn'tpenetrate sufficiently near the enamel side. How long I have to waitthe glue to penetrate on the splices before clamp?Regards,Sergio I've come to think using UFs for scarfs is prob not the best idea for the reason you mention. At first I made scarfs assuming the glue would be stronger than the cane as in wood scarfs and I use 1:22 scarfs compared with 1:12 for wood untill someone mentioned destructive tests and said the glue always failed before the cane which caused me to try and see the same thing.This sounds like the rods will just fall apart at the scarfs but in the field this dosn't happen. The scarfs seem strong enough for use and remember the scarfs are not only glued along the scarfing but along the sides of the splines as well. That still leaves an insecure feeling though so I now use Shell Epon for the scarfs and recomend this glue. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Feb 26 18:23:50 1998 Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:23:43 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWA wrote: Thomas,Thanks for the info. I'll try that and let everybody know the results.I am alos thinking if Tidebond-II has another name here.Sergio You may not find it. I can't here in Australia without buying some in.Should you decide to go down the epoxy road, to find Shell Epon just call the Shell Chemicals division in your area and they should be able to point you towards whoever they are selling barrels of resin to so you can aproach them to buy smaller amounts. I got some from from a local paint maker who uses it as a base for anti graffiti paint. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 26 18:27:17 1998 Subject: Re: Why? I like rivers better than lakes. I like scotch better than bourbon, alebetter than lager, cotton and wool better than rayon and polar fleece,wood skis better than glass, strip canoes better than anything, canvasbetter than nylon packcloth, my flies better than store bought, andbamboo rods better than the alternatives.It's taken me better than a year and two culms of bamboo to finishmy first rod,(a Paul Young Para 14 knock-off). This rod casts a DT 4 sowell it gives me a woody. (not a glassy or a graphity).If this keeps up I'll never fish anybody elses rods again. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 26 18:39:15 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? Okay, there may be some problems, but its still a good idea, right?I hate to see good ideas get screwed-up by solvable gliches. (Likelawyers ;^)Let's see if we can make them and market them through some worthynot-for-profit group like the American Museum of FF, TU, FFF, AmericanFisheries, Whirling Disease, Atlantic Salmon, Madison Avenue Rod, Gun,Bloody Mary and Labrador Retriever Benevolent Association, or somesuch.. Hell, Bamboo how-to's are selling pretty good now, it seems, andthe very un-selfish gesture of the maker's rod shows that we are a groupthat can make a not inconsequental impact. My offer of whatever limited assistence I might be able to offer isstill good. Brian from rawhitejr@cyberportal.net Thu Feb 26 18:41:23 1998 Subject: Wants to learn Any rodmaker in New Hampshire or Vermont willing to give instructions inbuilding bamboo rods to someone who wishes to learn? from JorgeCarcao@myna.com Thu Feb 26 18:43:54 1998 mail.myna.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: deal of century Subject: deal of century Just wondered if anybody could use some really big Super Z ferrules. Acouplebucks apiece. These are bronze, size 20/21(i.e. 21/64 on the female and 20/64 male)and21/22, about 1/2 doz. of each. They are too big for anything but salmon orsaltwater rods, or maybe a large multi-section, but I refuse to throwthemout. My concept is that if somebody is tooling up their home machine shop andneedsa ferrule this size, you could use it as a pattern for making the- proportionally smaller- upper ferrule(s). I'd just like to see them put togood use rather than to make whistles. E-mail me off-list if you're interested. Davy Hi Davy, I could use those ferrules, I build a lot of salmon rods (sorry no whistles here). Are these actually brass (not bronze?) and are they the truncated or full length style? These don't have water plugs in the females if they are the same ones I am thinking about, but they are stamped "super Z on the female right? Let me know how mant you haveof each maybe I'll take the lot. Thanks, JorgeCarcao@myna.com from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 26 19:02:14 1998 UAA22986;Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:01:09 -0500 Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless SergioYou prob have an equivalent glue. Franklin makes the stuff I use butitsimilarto most woodworking yellow glues - It will give you a quick grab and setup andyoucan unclamp in a hour - but don't stress for 24hrs. Borden has anequivalentglue.Hard to guess brand names in Brazil - but look around. Chris On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:30:51 +0300, ishikawa@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.brwrote: Chris,Thanks for your info. I doubt I have Tidebond-II here in Brazil, sorryto not tell that. Can you give me some info about its component?Who makes it?Sergio from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Feb 26 19:14:40 1998 UAA25867;Thu, 26 Feb 1998 20:14:36 -0500 Subject: RE: Why???? MattNo - I think lyndi Cattanach is behind you for one - It goes to showyou that you cannot start young enough. Chris On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 15:54:05 -0500, Matt Leiderman wrote: here's my story..... Last winter, while searching the web for info on graphite rod building, icame across Rodamkers. from there, i found links to many pages whichexplained or showed the processes involved in making a bamboo rod. Themore i studied them, the more i thought "hey, i could probably do that".Slowly i gathered up tools with the help of my dad and grandfather, andbylast summer i was beginning my first rod. My setup was very basic,probably as basic as you could get, but boy did i ever have fun. All day, iwas planing and splitting away, dreaming and wondering if i'd ever get arod finished. Finally, after many months with few successes and manyfailures, i had succeded, i had made my first rod. i thought it was themost beautiful thing at the time, but looking at it now, i see how bad itreally was. i quickly started another and then another. I now havecompleted 3 rods, and have started #4 and 5. Every one is a learningexperiance and challenge to me. i guess i first started building thembecause it was kind of a "what's next" situation. i had taught myself howto tie, then it was graphite rods, now bamboo. I guess the question reallyis what's next after this?? i started building them not so much because iwas obsessed with bamboo or loved fishing it, but i really wanted to feelagreat sense of accomplishment and pride while fishing a rod that I built.My basic priciple has remained the same, i build them for a sense ofaccomplishment, though i now truely love fishing them. another reason is that last winter i was almost killed in a caraccident....a truck ran a red light going 70mph and made impact about 2 ftbehind me.....the police said if he had hit up 2ft, i'd be dead.....justknowing that i could have died made me want to do something like this.....ifigured i might as well start soon, because you never know how muchlongeryou're going to be around to carry out your dreams...... BTW....just curious, am i pulling up the rear of this group at age 16?? Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from DRinker370@aol.com Thu Feb 26 19:16:50 1998 Subject: Lathe Wizards I located a 9'' South Bend Lathe locally. It seems to be in pretty goodshape. Ihaven't a clue what that means but the price was OK. I have a couple ofbeginning questions about it before I go off and take a tech school courseonhow to use it . The motor pulleys are for V belts and the lathe connectingpulleys are not . Am I to assume the V belt pulley needs to be replacedwith aflat pulley to be compatable with the Lathe pulley? That seems to requirea1" leather belt drive. Also is a small amount of front to back play whenturning the cross slide allright or do I need a replacement part here. Bothof the slides have a small amount of play before the turning handleengagesthe slide. Thanks in advance for any help with this antique. David from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Thu Feb 26 19:18:20 1998 0000 Subject: Rod ID and varnish removal i found a rod with the name "Wiscoy 206" on it.....it's a 8'6" 3/2 don'tknow the line weight.....it has a 6in. coke bottle grip (1in rings), chromeDL reelseat, the cane's a lt. brown, but not blonde, wraps are green w/ redtipping, ferrules are nickel plated brass....i think the rod's a cheapproduction, but never heard of the wiscoy....any idea who might have madeit?? also, if i buy this rod (only $40), i'd need to refinish it...thatwould mean removing the varnish so does anyone reccommend a varnishremoverthat's relatively easy to find and use?? also how would i go about usingit and retaining the name.....BTW the label's written on, not alabel.....thanks for any info.... Matt Leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Thu Feb 26 19:21:34 1998 Subject: RE: Hollow Built rods The rod has one bad tip (16 inches short!). Maybe I'll do a littledissecting. -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, February 26, 1998 3:54 PM Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods In a message dated 2/26/98 11:21:15 AM Pacific Standard Time,DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com writes: hollow construction would probably have an effect on thecalculations.Does anyone have any insight into what the effect might beand how tocompensate for it? Hollow construction will reduce the weight of the bamboo. In thecalculations of stress curves the weight is derived from thespecific gravity of bamboo and the volume of each inch longsection.You will have to estimate how much bamboo was removed, andprobably the easiest thing to do would be to reduce the specificgravity number accordingly (if half the bamboo was removed,halve the SG term). Darryl Hayashida from lblan@provide.net Thu Feb 26 19:37:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re[4]: Reducing Heat Output Well.... I've been waiting for an EE to jump in here, but we don't seem tohave one available! Motor burn out.... AC inductive motors (an air conditioning compressorforinstance) will indeed burn out if subjected to low voltage. I would be*very* surprised to find a heat gun motor that was inductive. It mostlikelyhas a universal, brush type motor. The reduction of voltage will *not* hurtin this instance. Think of a Dremel tool by way of example. Does your wifeuse a blow dryer? Take it apart (when she isn't looking, of course) and seehow they did it. Same parts, lower speed fan and reduced wattage! Wayne's comment on reducing the voltage to the coil is a good one. You'llstill be pushing the air out and keeping the coil cool. Reducing voltage..... in the absence of a variable rheostat (do you have anold sewing machine pedal available?) or a lot of light bulbs, you mightplaywith a diode in-line. This will drop the voltage by about 50% (I think). Thediode would have to be rated for the heat guns wattage, of course. Many ofthe small speed switches that you find wired in-line with electrical cordsare done this way, I'm thinking of the small thumbwheel type switch.... Myleaf blower speed control works the same way. Accurate temperature measurement.... it seems to me that we've seenmanyposts by list-members who use thermometers. If push comes to shove, I'dbewilling to send a variety of thermocouple leads and a T/C reader for you toborrow. Let the Steinel tech argue with that! Any further thoughts anyone? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Re[4]: Reducing Heat Output from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Feb 26 19:44:30 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards South Bend has a web page, and they are really nice on the phone. Give'em a call. Brian from CALucker@aol.com Thu Feb 26 20:33:04 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods Describe the rod to me. I have several spare EC Powell tips and one spareECPowell Rod Co. tip.Chris Lucker from CALucker@aol.com Thu Feb 26 20:33:16 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods I think that the Port Orford Cedar will have just as large an effect as therod being hollow. Remember, the reason EC started using the stuff is that PO Cedar has thestrength of Doug Fir with the weight of a lightweight cedar. The sugarpineEC started using did not have any where near that strength to weight ratio.(My dad is an architect so he has those structural reference books handy).Also, By using the outside 72 thou of bamboo and replacing the weakerfibersand pith with PO Cedar, EC made his strips stronger, more consistent andmorepredictable. Of course, some of this consistency was lost in the sloppy way EChollowedhis sections. He simply made pencil mark targets and pressed his beltsanderdown across all six strips. Look inside a real EC and you see how the beltsander goes through the cedar and into the cane on strips 1 and 2, but doesnot even make it through the cedar on strips 4 and 5 (I hope you followthat.) Yet despite his sometimes crude techniques, real EC rods are my favorites-- even the bad ones. I do not collect Maslan EC Powell Rods, not to put Tonydown. He was a gentlemen and taught me a great deal about building. Ijustthink EC's have that elusive charm. Chris Lucker from jjohnso4@bellsouth.net Thu Feb 26 20:54:34 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards At 07:15 PM 2/26/98 EST, David wrote: I located a 9'' South Bend Lathe locally. It seems to be in pretty goodshape. Ihaven't a clue what that means but the price was OK. I have a couple ofbeginning questions about it before I go off and take a tech school courseonhow to use it . The motor pulleys are for V belts and the lathe connectingpulleys are not . Am I to assume the V belt pulley needs to be replacedwith aflat pulley to be compatable with the Lathe pulley? That seems torequire a1" leather belt drive. Also is a small amount of front to back play whenturning the cross slide allright or do I need a replacement part here. Bothof the slides have a small amount of play before the turning handleengagesthe slide. Thanks in advance for any help with this antique. David David, Point your news reader to rec.crafts.metalworking and ask yourquestionthere. You'll get more information than you probably want to know. Later,Johnny----------------------------------------------Johnny JohnsonLilburn, GA from anglport@con2.com Thu Feb 26 21:09:38 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA21406 for Subject: Re: Re[4]: Reducing Heat Output At 08:36 PM 2/26/98 -0500, you wrote:Well.... I've been waiting for an EE to jump in here, but we don't seem tohave one available! Motor burn out.... AC inductive motors (an air conditioning compressor forinstance) will indeed burn out if subjected to low voltage. I would be*very* surprised to find a heat gun motor that was inductive. It mostlikelyhas a universal, brush type motor. The reduction of voltage will *not*hurtin this instance. Think of a Dremel tool by way of example. Does yourwifeuse a blow dryer? Take it apart (when she isn't looking, of course) andseehow they did it. Same parts, lower speed fan and reduced wattage! Wayne's comment on reducing the voltage to the coil is a good one. You'llstill be pushing the air out and keeping the coil cool. Reducing voltage..... in the absence of a variable rheostat (do you have anold sewing machine pedal available?) or a lot of light bulbs, you mightplaywith a diode in-line. This will drop the voltage by about 50% (I think). Thediode would have to be rated for the heat guns wattage, of course. Manyofthe small speed switches that you find wired in-line with electricalcordsare done this way, I'm thinking of the small thumbwheel type switch.... Myleaf blower speed control works the same way. Accurate temperature measurement.... it seems to me that we've seenmanyposts by list-members who use thermometers. If push comes to shove, I'dbewilling to send a variety of thermocouple leads and a T/C reader for youtoborrow. Let the Steinel tech argue with that! Any further thoughts anyone? -----Original Message-----From: Art Port Date: Thursday, February 26, 1998 6:55 PMSubject: Re: Re[4]: Reducing Heat Output Larry,I knew that some types of motors were susceptible to burnout andsome weren't. I needed someone with your knowledge to tell me which. TheSinger control may be an option (if I can find a way to jack it out of andback into my wife's machine when she's not looking). I'm going to try thecheaper, readily available methods first but I may wind up taking you uponthose diodes you mentioned (or even on a way to find some locally -- RadioShack? -- or even a way to figure the size I'd need).I'm expecting the schematic in a day or two, then I'll get serious(and probably bother you again).Thanks,Art from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 26 21:12:28 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA02927 for; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:12:23 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards DRinker370 wrote: I located a 9'' South Bend Lathe locally. It seems to be in pretty goodshape. Ihaven't a clue what that means but the price was OK. I have a coupleofbeginning questions about it before I go off and take a tech school courseonhow to use it . The motor pulleys are for V belts and the latheconnectingpulleys are not . Am I to assume the V belt pulley needs to be replacedwith aflat pulley to be compatable with the Lathe pulley? That seems torequire a1" leather belt drive. Also is a small amount of front to back play whenturning the cross slide allright or do I need a replacement part here. Bothof the slides have a small amount of play before the turning handleengagesthe slide. Thanks in advance for any help with this antique. David Not shure about the belts, but play in the handles is normal.....youonly use the scales on the handles when turning toward the workpiece sothe presure on the tool is against the thread of the feed.....alwaysturn a handle so the tool moves toward the workpiece when you go to makea cut,if you turn to far and back up with it, the tool can push backaway from the workpiece and you won't have an accurate cut!!!!!.Hopethis helps..If this dosn't make sense, I will try to go deeper..Justask!!Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Thu Feb 26 21:14:13 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA02982 for; Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:14:10 -0500 Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards DRinker370 wrote: I located a 9'' South Bend Lathe locally. It seems to be in pretty goodshape. Ihaven't a clue what that means but the price was OK. I have a coupleofbeginning questions about it before I go off and take a tech school courseonhow to use it . The motor pulleys are for V belts and the latheconnectingpulleys are not . Am I to assume the V belt pulley needs to be replacedwith aflat pulley to be compatable with the Lathe pulley? That seems torequire a1" leather belt drive. Also is a small amount of front to back play whenturning the cross slide allright or do I need a replacement part here. Bothof the slides have a small amount of play before the turning handleengagesthe slide. Thanks in advance for any help with this antique. David Wish I had a video-capture card in this thing, I would put live shopvideo online!!!Dave Price from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Feb 26 21:27:54 1998 Subject: Re: Why???? Matt - sold a couple of rod now ($800/ea) - but she has grewn up in a flyfishingworld - hanging out with troutbums. Don't feel bad though - you have therespect and the envy of many for having done what you have for your age.I'llencourage you to stick with it - it's something you can do the rest of yourlife - unlike tackle football. By the way Lyndi is 16 now. Wayne from channer@frontier.net Thu Feb 26 22:00:09 1998 Subject: heat reducer All;Am I missing something here????? I use a 2 speed heat gun and a 5' pieceof5" B-vent with caps on each end, one with a hole the size of the nozzle onmy gun and a 500d cooking thermometer. I turn it on high and put the rod inwhen it gets to 400, it then drops and then climbs back up to 375 at whichpoint I just turn it to low. If it drops below 325, then I turn it back upto high. My .02John Channer from bairdart@burgoyne.com Thu Feb 26 22:06:18 1998 Subject: Re: Why? Harry Boyd wrote: A.J.,Several years ago I bought my first bamboo, a Leonard 50DF. Not badfora first rod, huh? Something about that rod captured my heart. I hadassembled a number of graphite rods, and cast hundreds more, but noneofthem touched me like the old Leonard. Soon though, a friend wanted therodeven more than I did, and gave me twice what I paid for it, and to beperfectly honest, I didn't like the cork grip on that rod. For severalyears I searched for another rod that would hold my attention like myfirstbamboo. Having never quite found what I was looking for, though I cannotdescribe that quality, I decided to try my hand at building them.Simply seeing if I could conquer the challenge of fine handwork waspartof the allure. Though I'm on rods # 2&3, that remains to be seen. Finally,another reason I want to build my own rods is there is more than a littlebit of pride in being THE most obsessed flyfisher around!!Harry Boyd PS Oh, and as far as performance, I'm still looking for a good taper toaccurately cast small weighted nymphs and yarn indicators 40-70 feet.Graphite won't do it! A.J.Thramer wrote: I would like to see some short(50wds) essays on why members buildbamboo. Perhaps followed by another short essay on why members fish bamboo. My rods are driven by performance criteria derived while fishing. Iknowothers are driven by the art of building.A.J.ThramerA.J.,Two years ago I inherited my fathers Bamboo Fly Rod. My older brother has hadit in his care since 1966 when my father passed away. At the time of his passing i was overseas. The story of why it took so long recieved it in the mail i was overwhelmed with emotion from my past. The memories of my father standing in the Feather river with me hooked to his belt with a short life line connecting us together. His gentle voice coaching me how to seek my rythem with the long slender bamboo rod i held in my small hand. When we were together at these times they were magical. The wisdom that he would share with me about life was not always clear but comforting. He truly loved the fish that he stalked, they were his friends. I learned about catch and release fishing from him. He knew back then that our wild species of trout must be cared for if everyone was ever going to have a chance to experience the thrill of a one on one adventure as he called it. I just sat for a couple of very quiet hours holding that fly rod while wonderful memories and stories flooded back to me. I now have a wonderful collection of cane rods that i love to fish with, but only one thats made of magic. Everytime i hold it in my hands i see my father casting it, looking down at me with that great smile saying God should be this lucky. Thank you for the pleasure that expressing these thoughts has brought back to me. R.M. BAIRD from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Feb 26 22:07:51 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards Dave,Your 9in. South Bend sounds like the one I have in my shop. Mylathe runs with a leather belt. You will have to change the pullys to accept theleather belt. Thats easier than changing the pullys on the lathe. The play you feelin the cross slide is normal. That is the back lash in the gears. You need someback lash or you would'nt be able to turn the crank very easily and would wearthe threads on the gears. This is a good lathe for a rod builder. Dave L. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Feb 26 22:23:44 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA22283 +0000 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? I would be interested. George Bourke PS--In 10 packs (with rebate), you can currently get (with jewel case)blank CD-R disks from Maxell, TDK, and several other name brands for$0.99 each. So it probably is doable around the price you suggested! ----------From: SalarFly@aol.com Subject: Annotated Archives on CD?Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:38 AM Something I have been mulling over in my mind eversince this annotated archives project has come out.I have on my home PC the ability to make CDs (aCD-R drive). If the annotated archives were set upwith a database to do subject, author, and maybeeven keyword searches and available on a CD, wouldn't it be a very valuable resource? The only problem I can see right away is that blank CDs are still sort of expensive, and a nominal fee would have to be charged, but along with postage, it shouldn't be more than about $5. Also, I'm fairly sure there would be enough room on the disk to include the various hexrod programs available from Jerry's web site (I noticed some people having trouble downloading them). The tapers could probably evenbe included. What do you all think? Any interest? Darryl Hayashida from bairdart@burgoyne.com Thu Feb 26 22:23:47 1998 Subject: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood Can anyone on the list tell me anything about a fly rod built by Jim Haywood. It is a #270 Whitney's 8'6". The blank is constructed with a swelled butt tapering down to a very delicate tip. The action is medium to slow. It has nickle silver ferrels and bronze guides. A down locking plastic with alum. threads reel seat. The wraps are green and black jasper. The craftsmanship is exellent. I would simply like to know a little more about the craftsman that built it. Thanks. Bob Baird Salt Lake City, Utah from DRinker370@aol.com Thu Feb 26 22:42:15 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards Dave , Any idea where I might find a pulley replacement for the motor onthelathe? I found a source for leather belts in Philadelphia . Should Imeasurethe internal diameter of the V groove on each pulley ? Also do I need twodiameter pulleys for the motor as it has now or do I need just one ?Thanks from ghinde@inconnect.com Thu Feb 26 23:02:23 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Why? Why build cane? Its the beauty of the thing before, during, and afterproduction. Its the smell of cane after you flame it, and the shop floorcovered with shavings as you plane it. Its the taste of good Scotch as yousit and stare at the finished rod, and are just dumfounded that somethingyou built actually looks like it is supposed to. There's also history andtradition to be considered. I build cane because Wayne, through his bookgave the final push needed to send me over the edge, and because it haslead to acquaintances with people like Ralph Moon whose knowledge andfriendship has made this cane thing a life long endeavor. Why fish with cane? Grab your favorite cane rod. Hold it out at arm'slength. Close your eyes. Give it a flex, and see if you feel somethingmagic travel from the tip of the rod, through the grip, up your arm, andstraight to the brain. If you feel it cane's for you. If you don't, todamn bad. ----------From: A.J.Thramer Subject: Why?Date: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 1:56 PM I would like to see some short(50wds) essays on why members buildbamboo. Perhaps followed by another short essay on why members fish bamboo. My rods are driven by performance criteria derived while fishing. I knowothers are driven by the art of building.A.J.Thramer from johnvalk@spectranet.ca Fri Feb 27 01:12:32 1998 Subject: Re: Why? Harry Boyd wrote: A.J.,Several years ago I bought my first bamboo, a Leonard 50DF. Not badfora first rod, huh? Something about that rod captured my heart. I hadassembled a number of graphite rods, and cast hundreds more, but noneofthem touched me like the old Leonard. Soon though, a friend wanted therodeven more than I did, and gave me twice what I paid for it, and to beperfectly honest, I didn't like the cork grip on that rod. For severalyears I searched for another rod that would hold my attention like myfirstbamboo. Having never quite found what I was looking for, though I cannotdescribe that quality, I decided to try my hand at building them.Simply seeing if I could conquer the challenge of fine handwork waspartof the allure. Though I'm on rods # 2&3, that remains to be seen. Finally,another reason I want to build my own rods is there is more than a littlebit of pride in being THE most obsessed flyfisher around!!Harry Boyd PS Oh, and as far as performance, I'm still looking for a good taper toaccurately cast small weighted nymphs and yarn indicators 40-70 feet.Graphite won't do it! A.J.Thramer wrote: I would like to see some short(50wds) essays on why members buildbamboo. Perhaps followed by another short essay on why members fish bamboo. My rods are driven by performance criteria derived while fishing. Iknowothers are driven by the art of building.A.J.ThramerHarry, Ask Ted Knott about the taper design of his 4wt rod, I think youwould be pleasantly surprised at the performance of this rod. As far as indicators, if you are going to use them check out Loons strike puttyinstead of yarn. It is much nicer to work with and do not impead yourline travel through wind resistance nearly as much as yarn. J.V. from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Fri Feb 27 01:37:53 1998 ; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:37:41 +1300 Subject: RE: Annotated Archives on CD? At 12:34 PM 25/02/98 -0600, you wrote: sounds like great value for $5 .. Hate to say it but I also would beprepared to pay more . Iank This would be great. It sounds like a lot of work. And I personallywould be willing to pay quite a bit more than $5. -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly@aol.com [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Wednesday, February 25, 1998 9:39 AM Subject: Annotated Archives on CD? Something I have been mulling over in my mind ever deleted Darryl Hayashida Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from skyboss@ibm.net Fri Feb 27 02:59:09 1998 out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id IAA23668 for; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:59:05 GMT Subject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood I hope you find this informative and interesting background on your JimHaywood rod. Of all the businesses involved in the sporting goods industry in Colorado,few have been more involved than Whitney Sporting Goods Company ofDenver.Since its founding in 1892 as C.B. Whitney & Co., Whitney's has been activeas a retailer, wholesaler, manufacturer, distributor, and promoter ofsporting goods and general fishing tackle in particular. Whitney's was founded by James Douglas and Charles Whitney, son of awealthyeastern family and black sheep who was sent west to keep him out oftrouble. In 1894, Whitney's purchased the Haywood Trout Fly Factory, the firstsuchcommercial fly operation in the U.S. It had been founded by Brian Haywood,afly tier and distributor for England who came to Colorado to produce andmarketed flies for the growing number of American flyfisherman. Hebroughtwith him four framed displays of English flies that became the pattern formany well known American flies. Haywood Manufacturing Company named Haywood, was established as the manufacturing subsidiary of Whitney's toproduce flies to be marketed by Whitney Sporting Goods. Haywood Flieswerethe company's premium line: Whitney Haywood Flies were the standardline:Navajo Flies were the economy or discount line. For many years as many as50fly tiers were employed to meet the demand for flies. boughtout by Harvey Hansen, Les Smith and several other employees. Mr. Whitneyreturned to the east and the new company began to thrive. In 1932Whitney'spurchased the sporting goods department of Tritch Hardware Company.Whitney's had started as a retailer but gradually shifted its emphasis to wholesaleoperations as more retail sports stores were established throughout theregion, and needed a steady supplier of sporting goods. During the next several decades Haywood Manufacturing Company wasinvolvedin such enterprises as producing snelled fishing hooks and making theHumphreys stainless steel spinning reels. The Humphreys reel was theoriginal closed face spinning reel and first to patent the feature of havingthe line come through the hole in the cover. Haywood trout Flies was among the very earliest companies to set up anoffshore manufacturing plant. Ray Davis joined Whitney's and HaywoodManufacturing to organize production facilities in Puerto Rico as early as1947 that turned out a complete line of snelled trout flies. Whitney's was also a distributor at various times for rods made by boththeGoodwin Granger Company and Phillipson Rod & Tackle Company. BothHarveyHansen and Les Smith were among the small group of initial investors inthePhillipson Company and Whitney's always maintained a close workingrelationship with the new rod company. Harold Allen was a salesman for Whitney's during this period and heconducted many casting clinics and rod demonstrations for tackle dealerswhohandled Whitney and Haywood products. This aspect of his job was doneunderthe assumed name of Jim Haywood, to further promote the Haywood brandname,Gradually, he began writing articles for The Denver Post about casting andfishing. Finally he decided he preferred writing and demonstrations tobeinga salesman and left Whitney's to go to work for the post as an outdoorcolumnist, using the pen name Jim Haywood. Eventually he became quitefamouswithin the Rocky Mountain region as the Post's "Roving Fisherman". Tocapitalize on his success Whitney's has Phillipson Rod & tackle build anewbamboo rod called the Haywood Zephyr, which was marketed exclusivelythroughWhitney Sporting Goods. The rod was introduced as a companion to the newHumphrey's reel, which was designed for use on both spin rods and flyrods.The Haywood Zephyr (1947) was made in only one model _ a seven foot,twopiece rod for a 5 weight line. Most Zephyr rods had a short butt extensionbehind the reel seat, to make the rod more convenient with the spinningreel, but several that I have seen were without the butt extension. The Phillipson Company also built the Whitney Supreme _ an 8 or 8 * footrodwith maroon guide wraps for a 5 weight line _ marketed under the Whineybrand name. I hope I have shed some light on your fly rod. Basically, it is an averagerod mass marketed and built under contract by the Phillipson Rod Company.Jim Haywood never wrapped a rod in his life. Marketing departments werealive and kicking even in 1947. Ken Holder -----Original Message----- Subject: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood Can anyone on the list tell me anything about a fly rod built by JimHaywood. It is a #270 Whitney's 8'6". The blank is constructed with aswelled butt tapering down to a very delicate tip. The action is mediumto slow. It has nickle silver ferrels and bronze guides. A down lockingplastic with alum. threads reel seat. The wraps are green and blackjasper. The craftsmanship is exellent. I would simply like to know alittle more about the craftsman that built it. Thanks.Bob BairdSalt Lake City, Utah from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 27 03:40:32 1998 Fri, 27 Feb 1998 17:40:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless I'd realy be a little careful here as I tried a few yellow glues here as well as two that were said to be Titebond II under a different name and these glues all failed during use. The scarfs came unstuck though the rods didn't actually fail because the splines are glued along the length.These catastrophies occured on a para 15 and a WC 7 #4 aka Daryl'sfavourite.Two different types of rod.Sergio, I still would recomend trying to get a glue you can point at the label and say "That is the glue people are using" at least until youmake a few and get a handle on where the problems can occur. Tony On Thu, 26 Feb 1998, Chris Bogart wrote: SergioYou prob have an equivalent glue. Franklin makes the stuff I use butitsimilarto most woodworking yellow glues - It will give you a quick grab and setupand youcan unclamp in a hour - but don't stress for 24hrs. Borden has anequivalentglue.Hard to guess brand names in Brazil - but look around. Chris On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 16:30:51 +0300, ishikawa@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.brwrote: Chris,Thanks for your info. I doubt I have Tidebond-II here in Brazil, sorryto not tell that. Can you give me some info about its component?Who makes it?Sergio /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Feb 27 05:55:37 1998 Subject: Re: Rod ID and varnish removal Matt: I use Formby's stripper and a synthetic (green nylon) pad that used forwashing dishes. Formby's is a very evaporative stripper and it doesn'tstayin contact with cane long. When stripped, wipe down with mineral spirits,sand VERY lightly with 400 grit sandpaper over a sanding block, thenpolishwith 00 steel wool. For labels and writing, I just don't strip that area,butI polish the old varnish rottenstone and linseed oil prior to revarnishing.Sometimes this means the area around the label is darker, but I don't knowhowto get around this. --Rich from ishikawa@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Fri Feb 27 06:24:16 1998 Subject: Re: AW: UF glue and Nodeless Alex,Thanks for the advice. I think I don't have this glue here in Brazil.I'll try to find an alternate glue.Sergio from dhaftel@att.com Fri Feb 27 08:20:32 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 09:19:55-0500 Subject: RE: Why???? 4.0.995.52 Great!! How am I gonna follow this act??? (I'm 36!!) Just kidding... Power to ya! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Wayne Catt [SMTP:WayneCatt@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, February 26, 1998 10:27 PM Subject: Re: Why???? Matt - hassold a couple of rod now ($800/ea) - but she has grewn up in a flyfishingworld - hanging out with troutbums. Don't feel bad though - you have therespect and the envy of many for having done what you have for your age.I'llencourage you to stick with it - it's something you can do the rest of yourlife - unlike tackle football. By the way Lyndi is 16 now. Wayne from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Feb 27 09:11:54 1998 Subject: Why? Give it a flex, and see if you feel something magic travel from the tip of the rod, through the grip, up your arm, and straight to the brain. I'm glad to see someone finally mention "Bamboo feel". I build for a lot ofreasons, and they change all the time, but I will never forget what got mestarted. My first cane rod was a Summers Midge. I bought it in mid season,andgot to fish it right away. About midway into the first day I found myselfon along shallow pool with a bunch of fish sipping sulphurs. Not a big, frenziedhatch, just enough to keep the fish feeding. Nothing can take me out of theworld like this kind of a quiet duel with the fish, where everything youknowabout hatch matching and presentation comes into play. Usually, no straythoughts or distractions can find their way in, but after about an hour, Ijust stopped almost involuntarily and looked at my hand and the rod. Itwaslike they had merged. I wasn't casting with the rod, it had become part ofme.Bamboo Feel. As momements of epiphany go, I guess it's wasn't as dramatic as beingstruckoff your horse by a bolt from the blue, but the conversion was just aseffective. In the last twenty years, you can count the times I fishedgraphite from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Feb 27 09:13:55 1998 (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise) id 00000536; Fri, 27 Feb 9809:10:03-0600 Subject: Re[6]: Reducing Heat Output Art wrote: ps: One more thing: will Glenlivet do it or do you recommend a stronger strain? Art, I built mine with Cragganmore (sp?). However, if you use the high setting on your heat gun you may want one with a more smokey character.Jon McAnulty from dhaftel@att.com Fri Feb 27 09:38:17 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 10:33:42-0500 Subject: RE: Re[6]: Reducing Heat Output 4.0.995.52 Art & John, Have you tried The McCallan 25?? Very smooooooth! Dennis Haftel-----Original Message-----From: mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu[SMTP:mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu]Sent: Friday, February 27, 1998 10:07 AM Subject: Re[6]: Reducing Heat Output Art wrote: ps: One more thing: will Glenlivet do it or do you recommend a stronger strain? Art, I built mine with Cragganmore (sp?). However, if you use the high setting on your heat gun you may want one with a more smokey character.Jon McAnulty from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Feb 27 09:40:37 1998 Fri, 27 Feb 1998 23:40:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Re[6]: Reducing Heat Output On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Jonathan McAnulty wrote: Art wrote: ps: One more thing: will Glenlivet do it or do you recommend a stronger strain? Art, I built mine with Cragganmore (sp?). However, if you use the high setting on your heat gun you may want one with a more smokey character.Jon McAnulty It's the preferd option. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from dhaftel@att.com Fri Feb 27 09:41:30 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 10:40:09-0500 Subject: Spelling 4.0.995.52 Sorry about that Jon.... Dennis Haftel from bairdart@burgoyne.com Fri Feb 27 09:50:33 1998 Subject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood Ken wrote: I hope you find this informative and interesting background on your JimHaywood rod. Of all the businesses involved in the sporting goods industry in Colorado,few have been more involved than Whitney Sporting Goods Company ofDenver.Since its founding in 1892 as C.B. Whitney & Co., Whitney's has beenactiveas a retailer, wholesaler, manufacturer, distributor, and promoter ofsporting goods and general fishing tackle in particular. Whitney's was founded by James Douglas and Charles Whitney, son of awealthyeastern family and black sheep who was sent west to keep him out oftrouble. In 1894, Whitney's purchased the Haywood Trout Fly Factory, the firstsuchcommercial fly operation in the U.S. It had been founded by BrianHaywood, afly tier and distributor for England who came to Colorado to produce andmarketed flies for the growing number of American flyfisherman. Hebroughtwith him four framed displays of English flies that became the patternformany well known American flies. Haywood Manufacturing Company named Haywood, was established as the manufacturing subsidiary of Whitney'stoproduce flies to be marketed by Whitney Sporting Goods. Haywood Flieswerethe company's premium line: Whitney Haywood Flies were the standardline:Navajo Flies were the economy or discount line. For many years as manyas 50fly tiers were employed to meet the demand for flies. boughtout by Harvey Hansen, Les Smith and several other employees. Mr.Whitneyreturned to the east and the new company began to thrive. In 1932Whitney'spurchased the sporting goods department of Tritch Hardware Company.Whitney's had started as a retailer but gradually shifted its emphasis towholesaleoperations as more retail sports stores were established throughout theregion, and needed a steady supplier of sporting goods. During the next several decades Haywood Manufacturing Company wasinvolvedin such enterprises as producing snelled fishing hooks and making theHumphreys stainless steel spinning reels. The Humphreys reel was theoriginal closed face spinning reel and first to patent the feature ofhavingthe line come through the hole in the cover. Haywood trout Flies was among the very earliest companies to set up anoffshore manufacturing plant. Ray Davis joined Whitney's and HaywoodManufacturing to organize production facilities in Puerto Rico as earlyas1947 that turned out a complete line of snelled trout flies. Whitney's was also a distributor at various times for rods made by boththeGoodwin Granger Company and Phillipson Rod & Tackle Company. BothHarveyHansen and Les Smith were among the small group of initial investors inthePhillipson Company and Whitney's always maintained a close workingrelationship with the new rod company. Harold Allen was a salesman for Whitney's during this period and heconducted many casting clinics and rod demonstrations for tackledealers whohandled Whitney and Haywood products. This aspect of his job was doneunderthe assumed name of Jim Haywood, to further promote the Haywoodbrand name,Gradually, he began writing articles for The Denver Post about castingandfishing. Finally he decided he preferred writing and demonstrations tobeinga salesman and left Whitney's to go to work for the post as an outdoorcolumnist, using the pen name Jim Haywood. Eventually he became quitefamouswithin the Rocky Mountain region as the Post's "Roving Fisherman". Tocapitalize on his success Whitney's has Phillipson Rod & tackle build anewbamboo rod called the Haywood Zephyr, which was marketed exclusivelythroughWhitney Sporting Goods. The rod was introduced as a companion to thenewHumphrey's reel, which was designed for use on both spin rods and flyrods.The Haywood Zephyr (1947) was made in only one model _ a seven foot,twopiece rod for a 5 weight line. Most Zephyr rods had a short butt extensionbehind the reel seat, to make the rod more convenient with the spinningreel, but several that I have seen were without the butt extension. The Phillipson Company also built the Whitney Supreme _ an 8 or 8 * footrodwith maroon guide wraps for a 5 weight line _ marketed under theWhineybrand name. I hope I have shed some light on your fly rod. Basically, it is an averagerod mass marketed and built under contract by the Phillipson RodCompany.Jim Haywood never wrapped a rod in his life. Marketing departmentswerealive and kicking even in 1947. Ken Holder -----Original Message-----From: bairdart@burgoyne.com Date: Thursday, February 26, 1998 8:30 PMSubject: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood Can anyone on the list tell me anything about a fly rod built by JimHaywood. It is a #270 Whitney's 8'6". The blank is constructed with aswelled butt tapering down to a very delicate tip. The action is mediumto slow. It has nickle silver ferrels and bronze guides. A down lockingplastic with alum. threads reel seat. The wraps are green and blackjasper. The craftsmanship is exellent. I would simply like to know alittle more about the craftsman that built it. Thanks.Bob BairdSalt Lake City, UtahKen, I want to thank you for the information about my fly rod. They all seem to possess their own identity and charachter. I always feel like i'm fishing with a close friend when i'm casting bamboo. Thanks again. Bob Baird S.L.C., UTAH from mcanultj@svm.vetmed.wisc.edu Fri Feb 27 09:53:55 1998 (IMA Internet Exchange 3.0 Enterprise) id 00000587; Fri, 27 Feb 9809:50:03-0600 Subject: Re[8]: Reducing Heat Output Yes, without a doubt an excellent single malt.Jon from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Fri Feb 27 10:19:05 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Alex, Chris, Thomas and Tony,Thanks for the advices. I think at least for me - a beginner - the UF glue isless forgiving when considering making splices. Altough the joints I gotseemssufficiently safe for butt sections, for reasons pointed by Tony, I doubt it is for tip sections. I'll try some more experimentation during this weekend and let you guys know what solution I get.Sergio Tony Young wrote: I've come to think using UFs for scarfs is prob not the best idea forthe reason you mention. At first I made scarfs assuming the glue wouldbestronger than the cane as in wood scarfs and I use 1:22 scarfs comparedwith 1:12 for wood untill someone mentioned destructive tests and saidthe glue always failed before the cane which caused me to try and seethesame thing.This sounds like the rods will just fall apart at the scarfs but in thefield this dosn't happen. The scarfs seem strong enough for use andremember the scarfs are not only glued along the scarfing but along thesides of the splines as well. That still leaves an insecure feelingthough so I now use Shell Epon for the scarfs and recomend this glue. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Fri Feb 27 10:21:47 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Tony,Thanks, I will try to contact them also. I would like to do some experimentation with several glues to find one that is suitable for me.Sergio Tony Young wrote: You may not find it. I can't here in Australia without buying some in.Should you decide to go down the epoxy road, to find Shell Epon just callthe Shell Chemicals division in your area and they should be able topoint you towards whoever they are selling barrels of resin to so you canaproach them to buy smaller amounts. I got some from from a local paintmaker who uses it as a base for anti graffiti paint. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Fri Feb 27 10:27:24 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Chris,Borden has a plant here in Brazil, I bought two glues from them.One is named "wood glue" (in Portuguese) and it's yellow and another is "Cascorez Extra" and is white. I glued some splicesas a test and will get the results by tomorrow.Probably they aren't water proof, otherwise I think they would advertise on the label, problems?Sergio Chris Bogart wrote: Sergio> You prob have an equivalent glue. Franklin makes the stuff I usebut itsimilarto most woodworking yellow glues - It will give you a quick grab and setupand youcan unclamp in a hour - but don't stress for 24hrs. Borden has anequivalentglue.Hard to guess brand names in Brazil - but look around. Chris from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 27 10:29:49 1998 Subject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood RO>I hope I have shed some light on your fly rod. Basically, it is an averageRO>rod mass marketed and built under contract by the Phillipson RodCompany.RO>Jim Haywood never wrapped a rod in his life. Marketing departmentswereRO>alive and kicking even in 1947. RO>Ken Holder Ken, Nice detail report. It's funny how some of those old companies"invented" famous people. (I believe Jay Harvey was an invented name bythe Tryon Co. too) But IMHO, Phillipson was at least a better than average production rod,they took the time to do a nice 3x3 node spacing and their tapersweren't all that bad. However, I don't know if the contract rods were asnice. Don Burns from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Feb 27 10:38:08 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA174887330; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 08:35:30 -0800 Subject: RE: Removing Varnish Matt, I use masking tape to cover the area over the writing or label while applying stripper to the rod. Often I leave the varnish over the label or writing alone and then polish the area with steel wool to remove as muchof the yellowed varnish as possible. I have chipped the varnish off of inked script on some rods with success. The varnish came off, but the writing remained intact. This was on aCross Singlebuilt which has a lot of writing on the shaft. I have also used a Q-tip to carefully apply small amounts of stripper on the varnish over the writing. I then use a dry Q-tip to blot the area and lift the varnish. Don't rub side to side or the writing may come up too. The script actually has some build to it, I suppose it's India Ink. It's time consuming and a little risky, but it's not impossible, and it certainly helps the appearance of the rod if the new finish is a consistent color and thickness. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Feb 27 10:51:02 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA02989 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id KAA16884 for ; Fri, 27 Feb1998 doing -bs Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless I used the powdered UF from Custom Pak Adhesives for my firsrt rod, boththe nodeless splices and the strips. I had problems with the splicesin the tip section also, and concur that some other glue is better here. Glue brand of polyuerethane glue; it has a lot of "toughness" whereas the UF seems strong but somehow "brittle". Another problem with the powdered UF: the five pound pail is enough forabout a hundred rods, but only has a 1 year shelf life. It bothers meto have to throw out 4.9 pounds after 1 rod! The Gorilla Glue has a 1 year shelf life after opening, but it has a lot of general purpose woodworking uses also. Early in this list's history, one of our European subscribers relatedhow members of his rodbuilding club glued up rods with ordinary whitenon- waterproof household PVA glue with no problems.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWA wrote: Alex, Chris, Thomas and Tony,Thanks for the advices. I think at least for me - a beginner - the UF glueisless forgiving when considering making splices. Altough the joints I gotseemssufficiently safe for butt sections, for reasons pointed by Tony, I doubtit is for tip sections. I'll try some more experimentation during thisweekend and let you guys know what solution I get.Sergio from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Fri Feb 27 10:57:11 1998 Subject: RE: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood I've never heard of Whitney's or Haywood, but that was and interestingand thorough little history. -----Original Message-----From: Ken [SMTP:skyboss@ibm.net]Sent: Friday, February 28, 1997 1:00 AM Subject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood I hope you find this informative and interesting background onyour JimHaywood rod. Of all the businesses involved in the sporting goods industry inColorado,few have been more involved than Whitney Sporting Goods Companyof Denver.Since its founding in 1892 as C.B. Whitney & Co., Whitney's hasbeen activeas a retailer, wholesaler, manufacturer, distributor, andpromoter ofsporting goods and general fishing tackle in particular. Whitney's was founded by James Douglas and Charles Whitney, sonof a wealthyeastern family and black sheep who was sent west to keep him outof trouble. In 1894, Whitney's purchased the Haywood Trout Fly Factory, thefirst suchcommercial fly operation in the U.S. It had been founded byBrian Haywood, afly tier and distributor for England who came to Colorado toproduce andmarketed flies for the growing number of American flyfisherman.He broughtwith him four framed displays of English flies that became thepattern formany well known American flies. Haywood Manufacturing Companynamed for Mr.Haywood, was established as the manufacturing subsidiary ofWhitney's toproduce flies to be marketed by Whitney Sporting Goods. HaywoodFlies werethe company's premium line: Whitney Haywood Flies were thestandard line:Navajo Flies were the economy or discount line. For many yearsas many as 50fly tiers were employed to meet the demand for flies. was boughtout by Harvey Hansen, Les Smith and several other employees. Mr.Whitneyreturned to the east and the new company began to thrive. In1932 Whitney'spurchased the sporting goods department of Tritch HardwareCompany. Whitney's had started as a retailer but gradually shifted its emphasisto wholesaleoperations as more retail sports stores were establishedthroughout theregion, and needed a steady supplier of sporting goods. During the next several decades Haywood Manufacturing Companywas involvedin such enterprises as producing snelled fishing hooks andmaking theHumphreys stainless steel spinning reels. The Humphreys reel wastheoriginal closed face spinning reel and first to patent thefeature of havingthe line come through the hole in the cover. Haywood trout Flies was among the very earliest companies to setup an offshore manufacturing plant. Ray Davis joined Whitney's andHaywoodManufacturing to organize production facilities in Puerto Ricoas early as1947 that turned out a complete line of snelled trout flies. Whitney's was also a distributor at various times for rods made Goodwin Granger Company and Phillipson Rod & Tackle Company.Both HarveyHansen and Les Smith were among the small group of initialinvestors in thePhillipson Company and Whitney's always maintained a closeworkingrelationship with the new rod company. Harold Allen was a salesman for Whitney's during this period andheconducted many casting clinics and rod demonstrations for tackledealers whohandled Whitney and Haywood products. This aspect of his job wasdone underthe assumed name of Jim Haywood, to further promote the Haywoodbrand name,Gradually, he began writing articles for The Denver Post aboutcasting andfishing. Finally he decided he preferred writing anddemonstrations to beinga salesman and left Whitney's to go to work for the post as anoutdoorcolumnist, using the pen name Jim Haywood. Eventually he becamequite famouswithin the Rocky Mountain region as the Post's "RovingFisherman". Tocapitalize on his success Whitney's has Phillipson Rod & tacklebuild a newbamboo rod called the Haywood Zephyr, which was marketedexclusively throughWhitney Sporting Goods. The rod was introduced as a companion tothe newHumphrey's reel, which was designed for use on both spin rodsand fly rods.The Haywood Zephyr (1947) was made in only one model - a sevenfoot, twopiece rod for a 5 weight line. Most Zephyr rods had a short buttextensionbehind the reel seat, to make the rod more convenient with thespinningreel, but several that I have seen were without the buttextension. The Phillipson Company also built the Whitney Supreme - an 8 or8 * foot rodwith maroon guide wraps for a 5 weight line - marketed under theWhineybrand name. I hope I have shed some light on your fly rod. Basically, it isan averagerod mass marketed and built under contract by the Phillipson RodCompany.Jim Haywood never wrapped a rod in his life. Marketingdepartments werealive and kicking even in 1947. Ken Holder -----Original Message-----From: bairdart@burgoyne.com Date: Thursday, February 26, 1998 8:30 PMSubject: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood Can anyone on the list tell me anything about a fly rod built Haywood. It is a #270 Whitney's 8'6". The blank is constructedwith aswelled butt tapering down to a very delicate tip. The actionis mediumto slow. It has nickle silver ferrels and bronze guides. A downlockingplastic with alum. threads reel seat. The wraps are green andblackjasper. The craftsmanship is exellent. I would simply like toknow alittle more about the craftsman that built it. Thanks.Bob BairdSalt Lake City, Utah from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 27 10:57:15 1998 Subject: Re: Removing Varnish Chris, good advise. How is your rod coming? I am still working on theforms, but have an oven built now. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: RE: Removing VarnishDate: Friday, February 27, 1998 8:37 AM Matt, I use masking tape to cover the area over the writing or label while applying stripper to the rod. Often I leave the varnish over the label or writing alone and then polish the area with steel wool to remove asmuchof the yellowed varnish as possible. I have chipped the varnish off of inked script on some rods with success. The varnish came off, but the writing remained intact. This was on aCross Singlebuilt which has a lot of writing on the shaft. I have also used a Q-tip to carefully apply small amounts of stripper on the varnish overthe writing. I then use a dry Q-tip to blot the area and lift the varnish. Don't rub side to side or the writing may come up too. The scriptactually has some build to it, I suppose it's India Ink. It's time consuming anda little risky, but it's not impossible, and it certainly helps the appearance of the rod if the new finish is a consistent color and thickness. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Feb 27 11:17:42 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA269869704; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 09:15:04 -0800 Subject: RE: Varnish Removal Rob, All that remains is varnishing, then I take it fishing. Thanks to A.J. Thramer for his many hours of guidance through the process of buildingthis rod. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Fri Feb 27 11:21:55 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Frank,I also think that is a lot of material and I can endup wasting some.I'll let you know the results. Sergio On Fri, 27 Feb 1998, Frank Stetzer wrote: I used the powdered UF from Custom Pak Adhesives for my firsrt rod,boththe nodeless splices and the strips. I had problems with the splicesin the tip section also, and concur that some other glue is better here. Glue brand of polyuerethane glue; it has a lot of "toughness" whereas theUF seems strong but somehow "brittle". Another problem with the powdered UF: the five pound pail is enough forabout a hundred rods, but only has a 1 year shelf life. It bothers meto have to throw out 4.9 pounds after 1 rod! The Gorilla Glue has a 1year shelf life after opening, but it has a lot of general purposewoodworking uses also. Early in this list's history, one of our European subscribers relatedhow members of his rodbuilding club glued up rods with ordinary whitenon- waterproof household PVA glue with no problems.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Feb 27 13:29:16 1998 Subject: Re: Rod ID and varnish removal Dear Matt I lost your original post regarding rod refinishing, but recall you saying itwas an inexpensive production rod, so I assume you are doing the wholerod,including new wraps. One solution is to mask off a good sized area around the signature (becarefulto use fresh tape from an auto finish place, not old shelf-hardeneddimestorestuff) and strip the rest of the butt, then make a small, neat wrap to coverthe transition between old and new varnish. If the rod has intermediatewraps, then replicate one of those. This will not produce a forgery-quality rebuild, but it will be reversible inany case. Good luck!Davy from dhaftel@att.com Fri Feb 27 13:43:53 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 14:34:30-0500 Subject: RE: (Removing Varnish)/Oven Construction 4.0.995.52 Robert, Ovens are a hot topic (sorry) 'round here lately!! Would you mind goinginto it (sorry again) for the benefit of we who haven't been so braveyet??? IOW: What kind? Heat source?? etc..... Thanx! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Friday, February 27, 1998 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Removing Varnish Chris, good advise. How is your rod coming? I am still working on theforms, but have an oven built now. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: RE: Removing VarnishDate: Friday, February 27, 1998 8:37 AM Matt, I use masking tape to cover the area over the writing or label while applying stripper to the rod. Often I leave the varnish over the label or writing alone and then polish the area with steel wool to remove asmuchof the yellowed varnish as possible. I have chipped the varnish off of inked script on some rods withsuccess. The varnish came off, but the writing remained intact. This was on aCross Singlebuilt which has a lot of writing on the shaft. I have also used a Q-tip to carefully apply small amounts of stripper on the varnish overthe writing. I then use a dry Q-tip to blot the area and lift the varnish. Don't rub side to side or the writing may come up too. The scriptactually has some build to it, I suppose it's India Ink. It's time consuming anda little risky, but it's not impossible, and it certainly helps the appearance of the rod if the new finish is a consistent color and thickness. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 27 13:50:29 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA05259 for Subject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood At 08:48 AM 2/27/98 -0600, you wrote:Ken wrote: I hope you find this informative and interesting background on your JimHaywood rod. Of all the businesses involved in the sporting goods industry inColorado, Ken, I want to thank you for the information about my fly rod. They all seem to possess their own identity and charachter. I always feel like i'm fishing with a close friend when i'm casting bamboo. Thanks again. Bob Baird S.L.C., UTAH Ken,Hell, I don't even own a Whitney and I was enthralled with your history ofthe company! It's great to read things like that to soak up some moreambience of "this thing of ours" (with apologies to "Da Boys" with the bentnoses). That kind of info is probably available only in a place like this.Were you affiliated with the co? How'd you come by the info?Thanks for a treat,Art from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Feb 27 14:04:15 1998 Subject: Re: deal of century Dear Jorge Yep, you're right, they seem to be brass. And you're also correct about noplug in the female ferrule. I was amazed at how many people jumped on this. Let me see how many ofthemstill want them, and I'll get back to you. Davy from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Fri Feb 27 14:11:52 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Rod ID and varnish removal thanks for the help guys.....i'll give it a try....the rod's accually quitepowerful, can throw a 6wt. pretty far....better than any of the Montaguesor other cheap rods i've cast......will be a nice first restoration..... matt from skyboss@ibm.net Fri Feb 27 14:26:21 1998 byout1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id UAA98644 for; Fri, 27 Feb 1998 20:26:16 GMT Subject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood Art, Although not a rod builder I am a student of flyfishing and an ardentadmirer of those who create masterpeices in cane. I have an extensive library of historical flyfishing infornation. Besides, Phillipson and Granger are likely my favorite cane rods, theywerewidely available through out the west as "everyman's fly rod". Affordabvle, yet of high quality. Ken -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood At 08:48 AM 2/27/98 -0600, you wrote:Ken wrote: I hope you find this informative and interesting background on your JimHaywood rod. Of all the businesses involved in the sporting goods industry inColorado, Ken,I want to thank you for the information about my fly rod. They allseem to possess their own identity and charachter. I always feel likei'm fishing with a close friend when i'm casting bamboo. Thanks again.Bob BairdS.L.C., UTAH Ken,Hell, I don't even own a Whitney and I was enthralled with your history ofthe company! It's great to read things like that to soak up some moreambience of "this thing of ours" (with apologies to "Da Boys" with thebentnoses). That kind of info is probably available only in a place like this.Were you affiliated with the co? How'd you come by the info?Thanks for a treat,Art from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 27 15:40:17 1998 Subject: More rod I.D.'ing All, Since others have had good luck with rod ID'ing lately, left mechallenge the group. I've got a 9' Montague-made trade rod and I'd liketo know if anyone can help me find out for what company it was made. Spec's: Looks very very close to being the Montague Redwing on the cover of DickSpurr's latest rod list, but it has a cedar spacer on a 1940's (?)chrome- plated top-end scrulock D/L reelseat. (#5 on page 140 -Sinclair's restoration book) The ferrules are serrated chrome-plated NSwith rolled welts - the only sign of some penny pinching. Where the Montague label would normally be, there's the remains of arectangular black outlined gold foil decal - the only lettering thatcan be read is "???? - X" in script. Or maybe it's "X - ????" Wraps are maroon with lemon yellow tipping (looks light gold tipped) andthere's lemon intermediates about every inch. White agate stripper guide- Perfection tiptops. Quality is very good for a production rod and it sure doesn't cast likeany other 9' Montague I've ever cast. I purchased it from a fellow in Eastern PA. Doesn't seem to be a JayHarvey. Any clues? Thanks in advance, Don from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Feb 27 16:04:06 1998 Subject: Re: (Removing Varnish)/Oven Construction Dennis, I built the oven per Wayne's specs in his book. I went to a localsheet metal outfit and had them build 2 "shrouds". One 6"X10"X60", theother 4"X8"X58" (Wayne recommended 59"). I ordered a mica strip heater from Delta MFG that was 1 1/2 " X54". I bought a used thermostat from alocal used appliance store. Got some 1" insulation and rat wire from afellow lister (Thanks T.), and some high temp wire and a heavy dutyextension cord. The thermostat had 2 prongs, so I wired one power wire toit, one to the mica strip, and one from the mica strip to the thermostat. Also grounded the power to the electrical box I used for the thermostat. Iused electrical conduit to attach a base to the mica strip, and put it alltogether. There is also a temperature probe that I hung from the rack (ratwire). That is about it. I varied from Wayne's instructions slightly withmy door, and the length of the inside shroud, but went mostly with hisinstructions. I think it turned out really well, and it actually works! Now... if I could build my planing form that easily.... Robert Clarke ----------From: Haftel, Dennis, CT Subject: RE: (Removing Varnish)/Oven ConstructionDate: Friday, February 27, 1998 11:43 AM Robert, Ovens are a hot topic (sorry) 'round here lately!! Would you mind goinginto it (sorry again) for the benefit of we who haven't been so braveyet??? IOW: What kind? Heat source?? etc..... Thanx! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Friday, February 27, 1998 11:55 AM Subject: Re: Removing Varnish Chris, good advise. How is your rod coming? I am still working on theforms, but have an oven built now. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL Subject: RE: Removing VarnishDate: Friday, February 27, 1998 8:37 AM Matt, I use masking tape to cover the area over the writing or label while applying stripper to the rod. Often I leave the varnish over the labelor writing alone and then polish the area with steel wool to remove asmuchof the yellowed varnish as possible. I have chipped the varnish off of inked script on some rods withsuccess. The varnish came off, but the writing remained intact. This was on aCross Singlebuilt which has a lot of writing on the shaft. I have also useda Q-tip to carefully apply small amounts of stripper on the varnish overthe writing. I then use a dry Q-tip to blot the area and lift thevarnish. Don't rub side to side or the writing may come up too. The scriptactually has some build to it, I suppose it's India Ink. It's time consuminganda little risky, but it's not impossible, and it certainly helps the appearance of the rod if the new finish is a consistent color and thickness. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Feb 27 17:55:13 1998 Subject: Re: More rod I.D.'ing In a message dated 98-02-27 16:41:38 EST, you write: Could it be a later era Devine or an early era HI? --Rich from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Feb 27 18:08:26 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07660 for Subject: Why Why indeed? Do we need slivers and finger slashes and shortages in silk,cane, and cork: problems with glue, straightening, dust, heat, to name justa very few? Because I need another rod? I need another rod like a hole inthe head. After 30 years , you are kidding. Should I make rods to sell? Itried it once and hated it. BUT I have the very greatest respect for thosewho do and I strongly believe that today's rods are the very best everbuilt. To give away? My few surviving old buddies are well taken care of.Myoffsprings are into golf. I make rods as a challenge. Could they be better? I make fivesiders,quads, one piece, nodeless, one of a kind specials, computer designs,looking for that holy grail, the ultimate. I will keep trying (but Tom, notwists).My problem in rodmaking is that I don't understand all this emphasisamonghobbyists on cosmetics. To me the blank is the thing, and the way itFISHES.We can always go from there when we get it right. Allright, on to the new challenge: next a glueless rod!! Bill from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 27 18:17:08 1998 Subject: Re:RE: More rod I.D.'ing RO>In a message dated 98-02-27 16:41:38 EST, you write: RO>>RO>Could it be a later era Devine or an early era HI? RO>--Rich Rich, It's a Montague made rod. The wraps are almost 100% match on theRedwingon Dick Spurr's "The Classic Chronicle" cover. The Redwing on the coverof the CC is a bit older - it has a NS reelseat with sliding band. Mine has the later threaded D/L scrulock reelseat - but the windingcheck and the grip are the same as on the CC Redwing. It's label hasbeen changed to "brand X" and the ferrules down-graded to a non-handwelted females. The ferrules are straight-tube (without the bottle shoulder) NS design -not their bottom-end pond-scum Ni-plated brass poo and look somewhatlike a Heddon rolled-welt serrated ferrule. Montague used these only onthe "Comet" and "Fishkill" models during the '40's. It's a nice casting rod - but it's missing 3 mid-section guides at themoment. (anyone got 3 high-arch Perfection #2 guides?) That's how Iknew the true wrap colors - I peeked at the old wraps. Don from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Feb 27 18:19:16 1998 Subject: Re: Why? Because it combines my love for beauty with my love for fishing.As an orchestral musician, I believe that a few things in life deservetoolsthat transcend utility into works of art. Whether you're playing Brucknerorpresenting a #20 BWO to a sipping rainbow, the experience is significantlyheightened if you feel like your tool can go with you to that extra step...-OR-It just feels better and I can't afford to buy 'em! Rob Hoffhines from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 27 18:21:56 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA22067 for Subject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood Ken,We may be able to scratch each others' backs someday. I'm sorta thesame thing. Have a library of over 500 titles next to the computer here.Mine's all Eastern loaded though. I gather from your info and preferencesthat you've got more Western data. Sooner or later one of us is probablygoing to need the other's help on some freaky thing we discover from theother end of the continent. Glad to meet ya!Art At 12:26 PM 2/28/97 -0800, you wrote:Art, Although not a rod builder I am a student of flyfishing and an ardentadmirer of those who create masterpeices in cane. I have an extensive library of historical flyfishing infornation. Besides, Phillipson and Granger are likely my favorite cane rods, theywerewidely available through out the west as "everyman's fly rod". Affordabvle, yet of high quality. Ken -----Original Message-----From: Art Port Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 11:55 AMSubject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood At 08:48 AM 2/27/98 -0600, you wrote:Ken wrote: I hope you find this informative and interesting background on yourJimHaywood rod. Of all the businesses involved in the sporting goods industry inColorado, Ken,I want to thank you for the information about my fly rod. They allseem to possess their own identity and charachter. I always feel likei'm fishing with a close friend when i'm casting bamboo. Thanks again.Bob BairdS.L.C., UTAH Ken,Hell, I don't even own a Whitney and I was enthralled with your historyofthe company! It's great to read things like that to soak up some moreambience of "this thing of ours" (with apologies to "Da Boys" with thebentnoses). That kind of info is probably available only in a place like this.Were you affiliated with the co? How'd you come by the info?Thanks for a treat,Art from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Feb 27 19:24:27 1998 Subject: RE:Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood RO>Ken,RO> We may be able to scratch each others' backs someday. I'm sortatheRO>same thing. Have a library of over 500 titles next to the computer here.RO>Mine's all Eastern loaded though. I gather from your info andpreferencesRO>that you've got more Western data. Sooner or later one of us isprobablyRO>going to need the other's help on some freaky thing we discover fromtheRO>other end of the continent. Glad to meet ya!RO>Art Ken/Art, I think there's a need for a brand history (including makers atproduction companies if possible) as well as a master spreadsheet of rod I spoke to Michael Sinclair about getting his information availableon-line. He needs some prodding to get him truely interested, IMHO. Don Burns from anglport@con2.com Fri Feb 27 20:03:59 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA29026 for Subject: RE:Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood Don,Having the books---even having read 'em--- doesn't make me any kind ofhelpat I-Ding the rods off the top of my head. Ken sounds like he might bebetter at it. If any one needs access to info in some book I have, I'll behappy to research it for them. One problem is that I don't have access to ascanner so I'll have to synopsize or type out the full data. I type atglacial speed! I certainly know what you mean about the need, though. Irecently picked up an obscure English rod and went half NUTS trying tofindout its pedigree and value. It turned out to be a piece of spaghetti andworth about what you'd expect for same, so I can pretty much treat it withdisdain (except it looks to be 40 or 50 years old, brand new and it's kindacute!) Did you ever see a rod where the butt is about 6" SHORTER than thetip??? I got one!Art At 05:23 PM 2/27/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Ken,RO> We may be able to scratch each others' backs someday. I'm sortatheRO>same thing. Have a library of over 500 titles next to the computerhere.RO>Mine's all Eastern loaded though. I gather from your info andpreferencesRO>that you've got more Western data. Sooner or later one of us isprobablyRO>going to need the other's help on some freaky thing we discover fromtheRO>other end of the continent. Glad to meet ya!RO>Art Ken/Art, I think there's a need for a brand history (including makers atproduction companies if possible) as well as a master spreadsheet of rod I spoke to Michael Sinclair about getting his information availableon-line. He needs some prodding to get him truely interested, IMHO. Don Burns from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Feb 27 20:57:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re: dickfurhman (best planing form) Wayne and Dick,Perhaps I read Dick's post wrong,but it seemed to me that it was a littlelike the rod builder who was belittling a young fellow who was buying hisreelseats instead of making them and then asking him where he got hisferrules. Idon't have a lathe,yet but my skills at designing tapers are pretty wellhoned from both good and bad experiences. I had an ironworks in Winchester, Va.makemy first forms on Garrison's specs-they're still my best even though Ihavesome push-pulls-my next set may be Jeff Wagner's if I sell enough rods.Justmy $.02.Looking forward to Greyrock.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Feb 27 20:59:42 1998 Subject: Re: Why Bill,If I'm trying to sell 'em my cosmetics have to be good(and they aren'twhere I want 'em yet.).Regards,Hank. from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 27 21:02:54 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods Just posted,Chris's wet taper and Doug Eastons offering of a wrightMcgill Granger aristocratunder Wright&McGill, Chris's is under Chris Bogart..ReedI took out the part of the header that looked like some kind of personalreference to your negotiating prowess.. :-} Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 27 21:24:03 1998 Subject: Re: dickfurhman (best planing form) Hank I had just the opposite reaction, I thought he owned his own foundry andwas going to explain lost wax casting for planemaking. maybe i'm guilty Dick, Mark, don't take it all so seriously, life IS short, everyone hasto trod there own path to bomboo enlightenment. MTC Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Fri Feb 27 21:48:58 1998 Subject: Re: Belvoirdale Mick Isn't it interesting, When i read your jasper making posting, myreaction was, I guess if you've got this far you probably do have adubbing twister.. does anyone not tie flies??neat techniique. Jerry from r.schiller@worldnet.att.net Fri Feb 27 23:03:12 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA8963 +0000 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods -----Original Message----- Subject: Hollow Built rods I recently had to good fortune to acquire an E.C. Powell hollow built 8'4wt. I'd like to put it through Hexrod, but I got to thinking that thehollow construction would probably have an effect on the calculations.Does anyone have any insight into what the effect might be and how tocompensate for it? I was hoping that someone more knowledgeable than I would take a shot atanswering your question, but since no one has come forth, I will give it mybest. The short answer is that the Hexrod programs that I am familiar with onthenet will not give you an answer for a hollow rod as these programs nowstand. Wayne could probably give a better answer but it involves twofactors that the Hexrod programs "assume", as a natural part of providingananswer for a six sided, solid rod. The first is that they assume a single density for the bamboo over theentire rod. If you were to use a variable density (Power fibers plus pithin varying percentages from the tip to the butt) you would have to input adensity somewhere along the rod for the program use in its calculations. Ahollow rod is essentially a material with varying density, based on howmuchbamboo is removed and left as air space or replaced with anothermaterial.Hexrod does not seem to make provisions for this "hollowing". The second point is that Hexrod is based on a solid hexagonal cross sectionwhich has a different moment of inertia than does a hollow cross section.This greatly affects the bending of a rod. This has been noted on the listin many messages where Darryl and Ed Estlow have from time to timediscusseda hollow rod vs. a solid rod, so there is no need to revisit that point. Ido not think there is an input on the existing "Hexrod" programs for thishollow factor. programsthat are generally used on the net. Of course there may be a programlurking around, that I am not familiar with, that takes the two itemsnotedabove into consideration. Perhaps others can help or correct my impressions. Dick from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Feb 27 23:18:05 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods I had the same question about a sweet Winston I miked...I'll just haftabuildit solid and find out or hope it turns out. It was such a teriffic rod, thepossibility of wasted time would be worth it. Rob from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Feb 27 23:24:58 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 8'6" Just for kicks I ran Mr.Channer's dimensions through hexrod (subtracting.004 stresscurve resembles a nice 8' 5wt I had the pleasure of repairing a wrap onthisfall. It was a great casting "western" action. I'll bet this taper would be asplendid 8'6" 6wt without a whole lot of the slop we usually see in thelongerproduction rods. Rob from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Feb 27 23:28:43 1998 Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules Does any body have opinions pro or con on wether or not to pin ferrules?If pro, anything I should be aware of? (any pointers?)Any help would be much appreciated. Rob Hoffhines from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 28 00:03:07 1998 Subject: Payne 8'6" Rob:Thanksfor checking out the taper. I ran it thru hexrod myself and thoughtabout the same wieght. Out of curiosity, because I'm not sure I'm readingit correctly, did you think it was that line wieght because the stressnumbers for that tip factor peaked at just under 200,000?This is where Iget confused trying to use hexrod to identify a rod I don't know theintended line wieght for. Thanks,John Channer from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Sat Feb 28 00:49:31 1998 Subject: RE: Hollow Built rods Thank you Richard. Sounds like the hollow construction makes an alreadydifficult design process even more complex. -----Original Message-----From: Richard Schiller [SMTP:r.schiller@worldnet.att.net]Sent: Friday, February 27, 1998 9:02 PM Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods -----Original Message-----From: Burrill, Dean Date: Thursday, February 26, 1998 2:21 PMSubject: Hollow Built rods I recently had to good fortune to acquire an E.C. Powell hollowbuilt 8'4wt. I'd like to put it through Hexrod, but I got to thinkingthat thehollow construction would probably have an effect on thecalculations.Does anyone have any insight into what the effect might be andhow tocompensate for it? I was hoping that someone more knowledgeable than I would take ashot atanswering your question, but since no one has come forth, I willgive it mybest. The short answer is that the Hexrod programs that I am familiarwith on thenet will not give you an answer for a hollow rod as theseprograms nowstand. Wayne could probably give a better answer but itinvolves twofactors that the Hexrod programs "assume", as a natural part ofproviding ananswer for a six sided, solid rod. The first is that they assume a single density for the bambooover theentire rod. If you were to use a variable density (Power fibersplus pithin varying percentages from the tip to the butt) you would haveto input adensity somewhere along the rod for the program use in itscalculations. Ahollow rod is essentially a material with varying density, basedon how muchbamboo is removed and left as air space or replaced with anothermaterial.Hexrod does not seem to make provisions for this "hollowing". The second point is that Hexrod is based on a solid hexagonalcross sectionwhich has a different moment of inertia than does a hollow crosssection.This greatly affects the bending of a rod. This has been notedon the listin many messages where Darryl and Ed Estlow have from time totime discusseda hollow rod vs. a solid rod, so there is no need to revisitthat point. Ido not think there is an input on the existing "Hexrod" programs hollow factor. "Hexrod" programsthat are generally used on the net. Of course there may be aprogramlurking around, that I am not familiar with, that takes the twoitems notedabove into consideration. Perhaps others can help or correct my impressions. Dick from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Feb 28 02:53:17 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA14692 for; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 09:25:44 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules ----------From: Nodewrrior Does any body have opinions pro or con on wether or not to pin ferrules?If pro, anything I should be aware of? (any pointers?)Any help would be much appreciated. Rob Hoffhines My 0.02 cents: Dont do it, as there is nothing pro, just contra. If theglue between ferule and cane fails, the pins will ruin the cane when rod isbeen used. If the glue works, what use is the pin then? best regards Carsten from Richard.Nootebos@xylan.com Sat Feb 28 03:48:31 1998 SVR4 (mailhub1.0)) (Netscape Messaging Server 3.0) with ESMTP id AAA6326 0800 Subject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood Ken, Can you put the date on your PC/Workstation on 1998 (it's on 1997 now) asyoukeep ending up at the wrong end of my mailbox and I am sure that I am nottheonly one. Regards, and have fun. Richard == The Flyfishing Dutchman == skyboss@ibm.net wrote: Art, Although not a rod builder I am a student of flyfishing and an ardentadmirer of those who create masterpeices in cane. I have an extensive library of historical flyfishing infornation. Besides, Phillipson and Granger are likely my favorite cane rods, theywerewidely available through out the west as "everyman's fly rod". Affordabvle, yet of high quality. Ken -----Original Message-----> From: Art Port Date: Friday, February 27, 1998 11:55 AMSubject: Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood At 08:48 AM 2/27/98 -0600, you wrote:Ken wrote: I hope you find this informative and interesting background on yourJimHaywood rod. Of all the businesses involved in the sporting goods industry inColorado, Ken,I want to thank you for the information about my fly rod. They allseem to possess their own identity and charachter. I always feel likei'm fishing with a close friend when i'm casting bamboo. Thanks again.Bob BairdS.L.C., UTAH Ken,Hell, I don't even own a Whitney and I was enthralled with your historyofthe company! It's great to read things like that to soak up some moreambience of "this thing of ours" (with apologies to "Da Boys" with thebentnoses). That kind of info is probably available only in a place like this.Were you affiliated with the co? How'd you come by the info?Thanks for a treat,Art --Richard NootebosXylan CorporationSales Manager Central/Eastern Europe & Middle Easte-mail: richard.nootebos@xylan.comTel/Mobile/Voicemail: +31 65 461 3778Fax: +32 10 88 12 14 from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Feb 28 04:28:03 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA07679 for; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 10:29:58 GMT Subject: John Z. and John c. Brush Varnishing I think I recently missed out on some useful information on brushingvarnishtecniques. Sorry to ask you go go over old ground again, but I would begrateful for any sage advice you might be able to offer. You might be interested to know of one my little dodges. Rather than heatthe whole can of varnish, I prefer to take only what I think I'll need fromthe can. I use an old clean can three quarters full of warm water. I thenput this into a clean poly bag, and push the poly bag down onto the surfaceof the warm water. I them pour onto the (now warm) poly bag surface, atable-spoon or two of the varnish. Because it is such a small quantity itwarms quickly, and stays warm throughout the varnishing operationbecause ofthe heat reservoir of warm water underneath. I use 1" Epifanes foambrushes,which produce a superb smooth finish. John Cooper from channer@frontier.net Sat Feb 28 06:20:31 1998 Subject: re: John Z. and John C. John Cooper;Sounds to me like you've got it pretty well figured out, if you can get asmooth finish with any form of brush then more power to you. I finallygaveup on brushing after my second refinish, it was too aggravating. I built adip tube/ drying cabinet arrangement out of some 1.5" copper tubing I gotfree from a plumber and some 1" x12" boards left over from a job I wasworking on at the time. The only thing I had to pay for was a piece ofplexiglass I used for a door and a rubber stopper for the tube. I used anold fly reel for a winch to raise and lower the rod section. I'm stillusing this set-up after about 12 rods and see no reason to changeanything.Good rodbuilding and Good fishing to you!!John Channer from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat Feb 28 06:55:31 1998 Subject: Re: Pinning ferrules Rob: If you're building a new rod, there is not reason to pin ferrules. Modernadhesives solve the problem the old makers were trying to overcome --gluefailures. It's just a plain bad idea from a structural view -- weakeningthecane at a high stress point. If you're doing a restoration, that's anotherthing. --Rich from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 28 07:58:32 1998 Subject: Re: brush varnishing In a message dated 2/28/98 10:34:42 AM, you wrote: John - That is also what I do. I don't like the idea of dipping back into thecan and possibly contaminating the whole lot. I use a heavy glass shotglass.I heat it up by filling it with water and microwaving it until the glass ishot. The glass will hold heat long enough. Dump the water, dry the glass,andhalf fill with varnish. Discard the excess after varnishing. I have noquarrelwith the majority, who dip finish rods. My eyeglass prescription alreadylookslike a refugee from an advanced algebra class, if things get any worse Imayjoin the majority. For now, I prefer brushing. I'm used to it, and it's theonly way to varnish a one piece rod, unless you live in a tower. from SealRite@aol.com Sat Feb 28 08:15:43 1998 Subject: Straightning The webbing is available at just about any hardware store. It is simplybraided poly rope. The yellow colored stuff. It is hollow, and I imagine arod could be inserted relatively easy. you could make a loop in the bottomsimply by inserting the braided end back into itself. Craig from SealRite@aol.com Sat Feb 28 08:16:06 1998 Subject: Re: plane blades Read your posting on grooving your plane. I hasseled with a local machineshop trying to get mine done, and finally just mounted a fine grindingwheelin my circular saw, put in a dado cover over it. I then adjusted my ripguidenext to it, and gentley took a half dozen passes to grind it down by .005.The process was relatively easy, and I kept checking the cut with mydepthindicator. Craig from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Feb 28 08:45:32 1998 Subject: Re: Payne 8'6" John,It seems that when I set up a taper in hexrod, if use 40-50 ft dependingonlength (for lack of a better reason) i see which line wt gets closest to200,000 or a bit over. I know these rods with a little push or a doublehaulwill punch another 40% more line easily, but want to see how the rodloadswith only the wieght of the line pulling on it. Keep in mind that i could betotally out to lunch here... Rob Hoffhines from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Feb 28 08:54:09 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods Dick: You bring up some interesting, telling points. I would like to addanother consideration, that being the various ways of hollowing and theireffects on the stiffness of a given taper. I think there has to besignificant differences in those effects between, say, the Powell method(seepage 7, 1st edition of The Bamboo Flyrod for a peek inside a Powell), TheWinston fluting method, and the scraping method with fabricated nodes. Not tomention the fact that possible variations of each of the methods areincredibly numerous; ex., how deep the flute, the design of the flutingcutter, how numerous the scallops, how stiff the individual cedar inserts,howthin the resulting strips and where the different thicknesses are placed,etc.I think your conclusion is correct; unfortunately, it would be a dauntingtaskto design an all inclusive program. However, and this is not meant to be argumentative, if one did use Hexrodresults to build hollow, just how different do you think the results wouldbevs. solid? Probably not much (opinion). Regards,RTyree from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Feb 28 09:37:26 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods In a message dated 2/28/98 2:56:56 PM, you wrote: Richard- I think you are correct, and I don't think Robb should be deterred from trying a hollow built rod just because the mathematics are tooarcane tofigure out exactly. If Winston and Powell waited until they had the math,there wouldn't be any hollow rods around today. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Feb 28 12:19:50 1998 Subject: RE:Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood RO>Don,RO>Having the books---even having read 'em--- doesn't make me any kindof helpRO>at I-Ding the rods off the top of my head. Ken sounds like he might beRO>better at it. If any one needs access to info in some book I have, I'll beRO>happy to research it for them. One problem is that I don't have accessto aRO>scanner so I'll have to synopsize or type out the full data. I type atRO>glacial speed! I certainly know what you mean about the need, though. IRO>recently picked up an obscure English rod and went half NUTS trying tofindRO>out its pedigree and value. It turned out to be a piece of spaghetti andRO>worth about what you'd expect for same, so I can pretty much treat itwithRO>disdain (except it looks to be 40 or 50 years old, brand new and it'skindaRO>cute!) Did you ever see a rod where the butt is about 6" SHORTER thantheRO>tip??? I got one!RO>Art Art, A few English fly rods were made with rod sections of different lenghts.The most common short butt - long tip rods that were made here in theUSA were baitcaster rods. Don from anglport@con2.com Sat Feb 28 12:58:16 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA29537 for Subject: RE:Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood At 10:19 AM 2/28/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Don,RO>Having the books---even having read 'em--- doesn't make me any kindof helpRO>at I-Ding the rods off the top of my head. Ken sounds like he might beRO>better at it. If any one needs access to info in some book I have, I'll beRO>happy to research it for them. One problem is that I don't have accessto aRO>scanner so I'll have to synopsize or type out the full data. I type atRO>glacial speed! I certainly know what you mean about the need, though.IRO>recently picked up an obscure English rod and went half NUTS tryingto findRO>out its pedigree and value. It turned out to be a piece of spaghetti andRO>worth about what you'd expect for same, so I can pretty much treat itwithRO>disdain (except it looks to be 40 or 50 years old, brand new and it'skindaRO>cute!) Did you ever see a rod where the butt is about 6" SHORTER thantheRO>tip??? I got one!RO>Art Art, A few English fly rods were made with rod sections of different lenghts.The most common short butt - long tip rods that were made here in theUSA were baitcaster rods. Don Don,The rod in question was a Farstrike by Davenport and Fordham. Isearched all over on the web for info and as luck would have it, foundsomewhen I ran into Oliver Edwards at the Flytiers' Symposium in TheMeadowlandslast Nov. I asked if he'd heard of it and the response was something like"There's nothing better to stake up your tomatoes with!" There wasanother"British Isles bloke" tying next to him who nodded vigorously at hisestimation of my find. Since my outlay was $10, I didn't feel too bad aboutthe whole thing. It's DEFINITELY a flyrod, just not "much-of-a- which-of-a"one!Art from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Feb 28 14:05:11 1998 Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards Dave,Try contacting PKE Inc. at 847-362-0014 or try Barry Aronson at 516-798-6330 for South Bend Lathe Parts.I know South Bend Lathes has a web sight.I'm not sure of the address. Try www.South Bend.com ,if that doesn't work, maybe some one on the list has there URL Good luck, Dave L. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Feb 28 14:12:18 1998 Subject: RE:Re: #270 Whitney's Jim Haywood RO>>Don,RO> The rod in question was a Farstrike by Davenport and Fordham. IRO>searched all over on the web for info and as luck would have it, foundsomeRO>when I ran into Oliver Edwards at the Flytiers' Symposium in TheMeadowlandsRO>last Nov. I asked if he'd heard of it and the response was somethinglikeRO>"There's nothing better to stake up your tomatoes with!" There wasanotherRO>"British Isles bloke" tying next to him who nodded vigorously at hisRO>estimation of my find. Since my outlay was $10, I didn't feel too badaboutRO>the whole thing. It's DEFINITELY a flyrod, just not "much-of-a-which-of-a" oRO>ArtRO>> Art, I'll bet John Cooper (one of our English rodmakers on-line) will be ableto add to to the tomato stake feedback. John are you following this thread? Don from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Feb 28 14:41:51 1998 ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:46:24 -0500 Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless SergioHow wet do you plan to get your rods? You will have varnishon them - the cork grip will prob utilize the same glue - so if it gets thatwet - then you will have other problems - big ones. Waterproof is nicebut it is like the discussions on hide glue - it got to get very wet and staywet - so if you plan to be a responsible rod owner - you will be ok.I would try the yellow first. Also note in Garrison book he didsome of his repairs with white glue.Chris On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:27:53 +0000, Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWA wrote: Chris,Borden has a plant here in Brazil, I bought two glues from them.One is named "wood glue" (in Portuguese) and it's yellow and another is "Cascorez Extra" and is white. I glued some splicesas a test and will get the results by tomorrow.Probably they aren't water proof, otherwise I think they would advertise on the label, problems?Sergio Chris Bogart wrote: SergioYou prob have an equivalent glue. Franklin makes the stuff I use but itsimilarto most woodworking yellow glues - It will give you a quick grab andset upand youcan unclamp in a hour - but don't stress for 24hrs. Borden has anequivalentglue.Hard to guess brand names in Brazil - but look around. Chris Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Feb 28 14:47:14 1998 ; Sat, 28 Feb 1998 15:51:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods Jerry What you don't realize is that Reed will want the rod in the worstway at Grayling - it is a jewel of a wet fly and looks so gorgous! Chris P.S. It will cost him. On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 21:01:08 -0500, Jerry Foster wrote: Just posted,Chris's wet taper and Doug Eastons offering of a wrightMcgill Granger aristocratunder Wright&McGill, Chris's is under Chris Bogart..ReedI took out the part of the header that looked like some kind of personalreference to your negotiating prowess.. :-} Jerry Regards Chris from jfoster@gte.net Sat Feb 28 15:36:14 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods Chris I thought we'd get a rise out of Reed, he must not be feeding. Jerry from CharlesIrvine@compuserve.com Sat Feb 28 18:42:19 1998 Subject: Payne 10'6" Salmon Rod SAA22316 specs for a 3/2 10' 6" payne Rod taken over varnish. I had to replace someguides and the varnish was .004. Each section is 42 5/8". Reel seat is 43/8" with a detachable 5 1/5" Butt. Grip is 6" and is made up of 3/8" corkrings as is the detachable butt 0 .068 70 .280 Guide Spacing from tip5 .090 75 .295 1. 5 1/8"10 .114 80 .302 2. 10 15/16"15 .133 87 .325 3. 16 15/16"20 .145 90 .330 4. 23 5/16"25 .155 95 .341 5. 29 3/4"30 .168 100 .360 6. 36 9/16"35 .190 105 .373 7. 44 3/8"40 .199 110 .397 8. 5145 .206 115 .445 9. 57 3/4"50 .221 120 .grip 10. 65 3/4"55 .232 11. 75 1/8"60 .250 12. 86 3/4"65 .268 Agate stripper 97" Rod has a tube for the tips and a heavy canvase bag for the butt, mid tiptube and fighting butt. Wraps are brown with green tipping. Chuck Irvine from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Sat Feb 28 18:45:17 1998 dfw-ix3.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Why? Well, I've only finished two so far; three and four are under construction.I can't afford to buy all the rods I would like to have so if I get them,I had better build them. I'm not sure whether I enjoy building things orjust like the satisfaction of having done it but making my own is reasonnumber two. The third is I do most of my fishing in warm water streamsandthe type of rod I like to fish is not available unless I make it. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Feb 28 21:57:09 1998 ; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 16:53:49 +1300 Subject: Re: brush varnishing Should not there be another step ? . After finishing the vanishing youmightclean the shot glass , fill it with the other brown liqiud , and drink itwhile admire the finish on the rod . Sounds like a great technique from more then one point of view Iank ..At 08:57 AM 28/02/98 EST, you wrote: In a message dated 2/28/98 10:34:42 AM, you wrote: the whole can of varnish, I prefer to take only what I think I'll need fromthe can.>> John - That is also what I do. I don't like the idea of dipping back into thecan and possibly contaminating the whole lot. I use a heavy glass shotglass.I heat it up by filling it with water and microwaving it until the glass ishot. The glass will hold heat long enough. Dump the water, dry the glass,andhalf fill with varnish. Discard the excess after varnishing. I have noquarrelwith the majority, who dip finish rods. My eyeglass prescription alreadylookslike a refugee from an advanced algebra class, if things get any worse Imayjoin the majority. For now, I prefer brushing. I'm used to it, and it's theonly way to varnish a one piece rod, unless you live in a tower. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Feb 28 23:42:17 1998 Subject: Re: brush varnishing In a message dated 98-02-28 08:59:21 EST, you write: John - That is also what I do. I don't like the idea of dipping back into thecan and possibly contaminating the whole lot. I use a heavy glass shotglass.I heat it up by filling it with water and microwaving it until the glass ishot. >> Dear Everybody-who-suggested-heating-varnish Great advice, and almost very timely in my case. I'm still picking bamboosplinters out of my hand from what might have been a really nice tipsection(ferruled and everything) had I not been trying to rub with a bit too muchvigor about eleven o'clock last night. Yes, it snagged a node if you mustknow. You can bet I'll be heating it up before I apply from now on. And knockingoff at a reasonable hour. Oh, and I got to try some of that spendy Scotch. And some Soju. Couplebottles of wine I think. A little beer. Still hurts. Davy