from rmoon@ida.net Sun Mar 1 07:13:31 1998 Subject: Re: test Is the list very slow, or do I have problems. 2 messages in 24 hours? from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Mar 1 07:24:42 1998 Subject: Re: Annotated Archives on CD? In a message dated 98-02-25 21:04:26 EST, you write: Hello Fernando - happy to see you are still involved in the art of bamboorodbuilding.Best Regards,Richard from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Mar 1 08:18:02 1998 Subject: Gluing/urac 185 I was looking at the side of the resin can, urac 185, and it stated thatyou could remove clamping in 1.5 hours. For our purposes how longshould I leave the rod section in the drying tube with the 100 watt bulbheating it. Gluing up day has arrived! Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from channer@frontier.net Sun Mar 1 08:33:55 1998 Subject: test Ralph;I was wondering the same thing, until your message came thru. Everyonemustbe out fishing,which is a real good idea, I'm on my way out the door to theSan Juan right now,Bye.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Sun Mar 1 08:39:45 1998 Subject: gluing,urac185 Steve;Glue up today,strip string and sand after work tomorrow. It won't hurt toheat treat tomorrow at 200d for 4-5 min.BTW, did you get the Am Cl I Good Luck and Strait sections to you!!!John Channer from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Mar 1 08:39:53 1998 Subject: Re: Re: brush varnishing In a message dated 3/1/98 3:59:12 AM, you wrote: Ian -- It is no accident that I have a good supply of shot glasses from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Sun Mar 1 08:40:03 1998 0000 Subject: "Radio" rod ID Hi, Can anyone ID a rod called: "RADIO" trademark reg. US Patent Office This info stamped on the NS reel seat. It seems to be calcutta cane andwell made. NS fittings thru-out. 9' one tip with perfection type top andone with a tiny agate top. The agate topped tip is slightly lighter. Tipscontained in a quality aluminum tip tube with brass cap. This rod seems to be one of the Catskill type. Long and very light line. Itwill be for sale after I get an ID. Thanks for any help. Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from d_price@global2000.net Sun Mar 1 09:02:08 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id KAA01276 for; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 10:01:58 -0500 Subject: Vacuum Bagging Hi All,just finnished tapering all my strips and thinking about the glueingstraitening process...Anybody try vacuumbagging instead ofbinding....Iwould think if you where going to place them in your steelform while drying the binding cord could create some problems....while awrap of 6 mil plastic would have a constant thikness and would help itto slip into the proper seat in the forms, also protect fromglue....All you would have to do is apply the glue and take like a threeinch strip of the plastic and fold over the length of the rod and sealthe edges with tape, insert the vacuum hose in the end and tape pullsome vacuum on it....and make sure to push the rod to one side while thevaccum is pulling down...Then place in your form with a peice of steelon top and heat....you have have accesss to a vacuum pump that wouldpull like 25" of mercury, and I'm shure there would be anough clampingto do the jobJust an Idea!!!! (anybody want a neat binder???)Dave Price from jfoster@gte.net Sun Mar 1 09:13:32 1998 Subject: Re: Vacuum Bagging Dave Sounds like a great idea, let us know how it turns out. Jerry from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Mar 1 09:16:55 1998 Subject: Re: test In a message dated 98-03-01 08:15:57 EST, you write: Ralph : seems to have slowed quite a bit, but not that slow. Abour 1/4thto1/3d speed at this address compared to 4-5 days ago. RTyree from plipton@sunvalley.net Sun Mar 1 09:31:44 1998 0700 (208.14.167.24) Subject: Bamboo and I Robert: Wayne's 6'3" rod is my personal favorite. I have built it both as a twopiece and as a three piece. I prefer the two piece but for travelingfellows, a case 2'1" long is very handy. I consider this a dry fly rod and casting to them. This rod has a delicate presentation. The shortlength is easy to handle hiking through the trees and it does not getwrapped up in overhanging limbs when casting. It is also fun todemonstrate to my graphite buddies that size is not everything. Afinesse rod can land very big fish. When conditions change to windy days and big water, I change rods. The6'3" rod does not have the length I need to mend my line on long driftsthrough rough water. It also lacks the backbone to chuck and duck. Imean nymphing with split shot and indicators - not that I do thatmyself. There are no witnesses and you couldn't prove I did it. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208- 726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Mar 1 09:52:33 1998 Subject: RE:"Radio" rod ID RO>Hi, RO>Can anyone ID a rod called: RO> "RADIO" RO>Mike Mike, Dick Spurr had a "Radio" rod listed back in his winter 95 list.Blk/yellow tipped yellow wraps. He said it was by an unknown earlyrodmaker. Dick's was a 4/5 wt and he called it had a "dainty slowaction". With the one agate tiptop and calcutta cane - your's soundsearly too. Sorry but that the only info. I have. Don Burns from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Mar 1 10:09:56 1998 Subject: first section glued To All, I used urac 185. I bound my strips by hand with a small jig to supportthe rod, hold the thread and thread tensioner. To say this was an experience would be an understatement! The gluestarted getting tacky a lot quicker than I expected. My 15 or so testruns, dry, were great, but dry and wet is a totally different thing. I had worked out a little procedure to tension my thread after knottingon the strips. Worked great until I grabbed my thread spool with a handfull of glue. I got through the glue up ok but had to spin a lot ofthread off of that spool to make it viable for another go. I believe I am going to have to build a binder if I am to continue usingurac. I have some questions for those more experienced with this glue: As I sit here writing this it has been an hour since I mixed my glue. The residue is setting in a coffee can, in an ice bath, and is a nicecarmel texture. It seems as if you could still use it. When I actually applied it to the strips it felt as though it wastacking in about 3-4 minutes. This glue will not cure without somewarmth 65* up. If you were working at that temperature would you haveunlimited open time? Has anyone tried a higher (used 4 to 1) concentration of resin topowder? On the time table of twenty minutes I had about five minutes ofstraightening time. I didn't feel that this was adequate, but time willtell. The section didn't seem too bad when I put it in the toaster. I am going to wait to see what happens to this section before I do theother two. I may be building a binder before I planned to. Comments? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Mar 1 10:37:04 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id RAA17046 for; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 17:10:31 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: test ----------From: Ralph W Moon Subject: Re: testDate: 1. marts 1998 13:59 Is the list very slow, or do I have problems. 2 messages in 24 hours? Ralph I think You got a problem. Out of bitter experience: try unsubscribing andthe subscribing again. This might solve Your problem. I had to do thismyself a couple of days ago Yours truly Carsten from rmoon@ida.net Sun Mar 1 12:37:11 1998 Subject: Re: test Thanks to all who replied. It seems ok now. 14 in just a couple ofhours. I have had some problems and talked to Jerry about it. Think Ihve solved everything. HA!!! from knut@shaw.fidalgo.net Sun Mar 1 12:41:01 1998 Subject: Re: test Hello I live in germany and i am looking fro a planing from can anybody give mesome hints where i can get one ? Thank you Knut Schubert from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Mar 1 13:31:55 1998 Subject: Re: test you may be experiencing technical difficulty. I've had 30. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Mar 1 13:39:28 1998 Subject: Re: first section glued I built a variation of the binder Bob Crompton has in the FAQ page onRodmakers. Works well. I think any binder is going to require somefussing before it works right, no matter how simple or ornate. Andbuilding the binder is pretty fun! Brian from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Mar 1 13:54:56 1998 (205.236.248.99) Subject: beveller I am interested in if any of the members have invested in the Bellingerbeveller? I have just visited the web site. from what I can gather is that the cane must be split, straightened andthe nodes flatened and a 60 deg angle planed on before the strip ispassed through. The strip must then be planed to the correct dimensionsas the beveller does not finish to size. that it is the the operations that the beveller does not do are the onesthat take the time.Terry Ackland from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Mar 1 16:05:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: smooth it out No it shouldn't that glue takes a stronger or hotter solvent to be effected.sorry for the delay in answering as I just got back from Tennessee. Wentdowntrout fishing for 4 days.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Mar 1 16:41:55 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Why? GW,I am glad that you stuck it out and showed those a--holes at Orifice thatyoucan build a better bamboo rod than they could ever hope for. I have anOrifice 8' 6wght Battenhell that is pure junk. They never have built a rodthat i thought could cast without falling down on the job after 30 ft.Bret from jfoster@gte.net Sun Mar 1 16:44:49 1998 Subject: Re: beveller Terrance Welcome Back. We've missed you. I looked over your page again lastweek. I have to update your link. You just bevel to get 60's don't you? regards Jerry from rmoon@ida.net Sun Mar 1 17:53:23 1998 Subject: Re: beveller Terry I just finished making Bob Milward's beveler, at a total cost ofabout $30 and I think it will do all that the $3000 one will, still,one has to hand split, smooth the nodes triangulate then bevel with themachine, then plane to final taper. I admit that Bob shows a way ofattaining the final taper with the beveler, which I have not tried yet.beyond some slight help in getting rid of some of the surplas cane, Idon't think it adds too much. Ralph from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 1 18:25:43 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04741 for Subject: Re: beveller At 04:39 PM 3/1/98 -0700, you wrote:Terry I just finished making Bob Milward's beveler, at a total cost ofabout $30 and I think it will do all that the $3000 one will, still,one has to hand split, smooth the nodes triangulate then bevel with themachine, then plane to final taper. I admit that Bob shows a way ofattaining the final taper with the beveler, which I have not tried yet.beyond some slight help in getting rid of some of the surplas cane, Idon't think it adds too much. Ralph Ralph,OK, where'd you see the plans for a homebuilt beveller? I've seenthe Milward binder and if his beveller is half as ingenious as his binder Iwant to see it!! I tried to come up with his idea for counter-rotatingwheels on and off for about 5 YEARS (even enlisted a fellow who was atopology freak to try to turn it into some other shape so I could attack it from a new prospective) and came up empty! I never considered putting thespools on the wheels!If Mr Milward doesn't have pix of his on-line (and it's notviolating copyright laws) you've GOT to get yours out there.PLEASE!Art from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Mar 1 18:36:46 1998 Mon, 2 Mar 1998 08:35:50 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: first section glued On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: I used urac 185. I bound my strips by hand with a small jig to supportthe rod, hold the thread and thread tensioner. To say this was an experience would be an understatement! The gluestarted getting tacky a lot quicker than I expected. My 15 or so testruns, dry, were great, but dry and wet is a totally different thing. I had worked out a little procedure to tension my thread after knottingon the strips. Worked great until I grabbed my thread spool with a handfull of glue. I got through the glue up ok but had to spin a lot ofthread off of that spool to make it viable for another go. It does get a little tacky but I don't use any means of supporting the blank while binding, I just hold it either verticaly or horizontaly depending on how it wants to hang for the section I'm up to.I use a large bobbin holder to hold the spool and a cup hook that I wrap the thread around a couple of times clamped to my bench for tension on thethread. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Mar 1 18:47:14 1998 (205.236.248.236) Subject: Re: beveller Jerry Foster wrote: Terrance Welcome Back. We've missed you. I looked over your page again lastweek. I have to update your link. You just bevel to get 60's don't you? regards Jerry Thanks Jerry,I find that getting the strip straight and the nodes flat and anaccurate 60 deg. angle is where all the work is, The rest is fun.I use a beveller to add the 60deg angle to a strip that has beenmachined to a rectangular cross section. It takes very little arm workto add the taper.PS Beveller or beveler? one L just does not look right to me. I knowthat in the UK we visit a jeweller. I guess an L got lost on the way. from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Mar 1 18:53:17 1998 Subject: Re: test Knut Schubert writes: Dear Knut Colorado Bootstrap, according to Frank Neunemann, will ship to Germany.http://home.earthlink.net/~bootstrap/fishing/ Frank's homepage is :http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/FNeunemann/BZBambooMain.html Which part of Germany is your home. I take it you are visiting somebody inmyarea, as I've never heard the names "Fidalgo" and "Shaw" ( from your e-mailaddress) anywhere else! Davy Riggs from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 1 19:10:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: dickfurhman (best planing form) Jerry,Hoching it? tsk, tsk!Hank. from rmoon@ida.net Sun Mar 1 19:28:21 1998 Subject: Re: beveller sorry I did not mean to be so long winded, but I didn't know how toget it to you any fasterRalph from DrBamboo@aol.com Sun Mar 1 19:43:14 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo and I Phil;Got a 6' 3 " 4 wt. that'll blow your socks off.George from DrBamboo@aol.com Sun Mar 1 19:51:37 1998 Subject: Re: beveller Terry;The machine saves me ~ 8 hours per rod.I've been building rods for 10years.Can'timprove on times at most operations,and can't stop arthritis or carpalstunnel.I lovemy new machine.I do this for a living, not just for fun.George from jfoster@gte.net Sun Mar 1 19:59:04 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo and I Was that a teaser George? Jerry from rmoon@ida.net Sun Mar 1 20:03:09 1998 Subject: Re: beveller Sorry the message rejected, Too big. I'll have to try againRalph from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 1 20:07:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: beveller Terry,We colonials don't know how to spell. Look at how we spell color,etc.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 1 20:08:16 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Why? Amen, BretHankP.S. Someone on the list said they're made to last ,not to cast. from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Mar 1 20:08:35 1998 Subject: Splitting I just tried Darryl's C-clamp splitting method. It works so slick Ican't believe it. Had big growers mark on the butt, and a leaf scar onthe tip, but still got 26 good strips from the tip. If you haven'ttried this and have any trouble splitting evenly, you owe it to yourselfto give it a go. Brian from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 1 20:09:09 1998 Subject: Re: Re: plane blades To all,Why groove your plane when by setting you taper shallower than yourfinaldimensions by .002" or .003" and careful planing and micrometer use youwon'ttouch the form? Just my $.01/2.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 1 20:13:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: test Ralph,I've rec'd so many messages-about 50/day that I'm consideringunsubscribing.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Mar 1 20:16:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re: first section glued Steve,If you get glue on any spool of binding thread you're going to haveproblems,binder or not-I've been there.Hank. from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Mar 1 20:19:06 1998 Subject: Dickerson 8615 Guide Does anyone have this taper from Dickerson notes, not from a mic-edrod? I want to build a nice, fast, biggish rod for shooting size 10 Hexspinners from a moving boat. Has anyone built the 8615 in the taperarchive? Thanks for the help. Brian from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Mar 1 20:40:37 1998 (205.236.249.174) Subject: Re: beveller DrBamboo wrote: Terry;The machine saves me ~ 8 hours per rod.I've been building rods for 10years.Can'timprove on times at most operations,and can't stop arthritis or carpalstunnel.I lovemy new machine.I do this for a living, not just for fun.George Dr.If you are genuinely managing to make a living from making bambooflyrodswithout any other means of support you have my deepest admiration. Ihavebeen building rods for over 15 years and it was once my dream to be arodmaker but I decided to stick to tool and die making.You have to make a lot of rods to cover 7 weeks vacation, sick pay, freemedical and dental plus a pension.I had 10 weeks total off work with pay for operations for carpal tunnel, ifI had been a rodmaker working for myself it would have been devastating.The last time I saw a true professional rodmaker friend of mine hiselectricity had been cut off and his bamboo supplier would not re-supplyhimuntil he had paid for his last shipment.All I am hoping for now is to try to keep the interest going until I take mypension whereby knocking out a few rods pays for a nice vacation.Terry from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Mar 1 21:10:48 1998 Subject: Re: beveller Art : The Milward device is included in The Best of the Planing Form. Itwasoriginally in Planing Form Issue # 6, Nov/Dec, 1990RTyree from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 1 21:25:19 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA15249 for Subject: Re: beveller At 10:05 PM 3/1/98 EST, you wrote:Art : The Milward device is included in The Best of the Planing Form. Itwasoriginally in Planing Form Issue # 6, Nov/Dec, 1990RTyree Thanks. My wife is ordering "The Best..." for my B'day present. That shouldgive me some MORE reading to occupy my time. Art from d_price@global2000.net Sun Mar 1 21:34:18 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id WAA00472 for; Sun, 1 Mar 1998 22:34:11 -0500 Subject: Re: beveller DrBamboo wrote: Terry;The machine saves me ~ 8 hours per rod.I've been building rods for 10years.Can'timprove on times at most operations,and can't stop arthritis or carpalstunnel.I lovemy new machine.I do this for a living, not just for fun.George How can a machine save 8 hours on a job that takes less than 3hours todo by hand (beveling one side to 60 deg)Dave Price from jfoster@gte.net Sun Mar 1 22:02:40 1998 Subject: archives Feb. archives on line.. jerry from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Mar 1 22:48:22 1998 Subject: Re: beveller Terry Ackland wrote: You have to make a lot of rods to cover 7 weeksvacation... from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 1 23:36:01 1998 Subject: Re:C-clamp Splitting I tried it and it didn't go very smothly. I must've missed something in thedescription which I still have printed out here somewhere. Maybe if I canseeit done in person at Grayrock this year I'll catch on. Rob from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Mar 2 00:21:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: test -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: test Ralph,I've rec'd so many messages-about 50/day that I'm consideringunsubscribing.Regards,Hank. Hank, Please don't. That would be a big loss to us all!! ted from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 2 02:32:50 1998 Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:32:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: beveller On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Terry,We colonials don't know how to spell. Look at how we spell color,etc.Regards,Hank.You mean colour don't you? /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 2 02:39:36 1998 Mon, 2 Mar 1998 16:39:14 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: test On Sun, 1 Mar 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Ralph,I've rec'd so many messages-about 50/day that I'm consideringunsubscribing.Regards,Hank. Don't do that Hank, it wont last. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Mar 2 03:28:30 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id JAA28033 for; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:30:53 GMT Subject: Re: Vacuum Bagging At 10:02 01/03/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi All,just finnished tapering all my strips and thinking about the glueingstraitening process...Anybody try vacuumbagging instead ofbinding....Iwould think if you where going to place them in your steelform while drying the binding cord could create some problems....while awrap of 6 mil plastic would have a constant thikness and would help itto slip into the proper seat in the forms, also protect fromglue....All you would have to do is apply the glue and take like a threeinch strip of the plastic and fold over the length of the rod and sealthe edges with tape, insert the vacuum hose in the end and tape pullsome vacuum on it....and make sure to push the rod to one side while thevaccum is pulling down...Then place in your form with a peice of steelon top and heat....you have have accesss to a vacuum pump that wouldpull like 25" of mercury, and I'm shure there would be anough clampingto do the jobJust an Idea!!!! (anybody want a neat binder???)Dave Price Clever idea this. I've done similar things in boat building with Westsystemepoxy, and it works. Room for serious lift in technique with some experimentation. John Cooper (England) from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Mon Mar 2 08:38:53 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 2 Mar 1998 09:38:20 -0500 Subject: Applying varnish by hand Okay, Here is my poor man's technique for varnish. I think it is awhole lot easier than brushing and you don't have to make any diptubes. (BTW: this isn't original, I read about it on the ManhattanCustom Tackle web page and said no way... the I tried it. It worksgreat.) I hang the rod pieces in the shop. I used warm varish or actuall I havebeen coating using Flexicoat epoxy... Get surgical glove. If it hastalcum on it as a preservative (you'll see it) slip the gole on andrinse you hands in water. Now dry up. This is you applicator. Load youfingeres with your coating. Start at the top of the rod, wrap yourfingers around, and then slide you hand down. The glove will start todrag when you are running low with coating. Try changing you grip orreload you hand with coating. When you get to the bottom, go back tothe top and try to squiggy the coating off with you hand. You want evenresistance from top to bottom. I can do two sections in 15 minutes with setup and cleanup. You canworking the coating thin and do three coats with light sanding between. It works so well, I haven't bothered to do anything else. P.S. The flexicoat epoxy can be colored with epoxy pigments. Troanslucent or opaque tones are possible. The best source for this(that I have found) is bumming some from a shop that does fiberglassboat repairs... from dryfly@erols.com Mon Mar 2 11:46:50 1998 Subject: Re: beveller David Price wrote: DrBamboo wrote: Terry;The machine saves me ~ 8 hours per rod.I've been building rods for 10years.Can'timprove on times at most operations,and can't stop arthritis or carpalstunnel.I lovemy new machine.I do this for a living, not just for fun.George How can a machine save 8 hours on a job that takes less than 3hours todo by hand (beveling one side to 60 deg)Dave Price Dave I think there has been some misunderstanding between a beveller and amilling machine. The beveller cuts the straightened strips to untaperedequilateral triangles while the milling machine tapers the strips. Bothmachines combined save considerable time and ultimately reduce theamoutof time spent in final handplaning. I've seen both machines in actionand they are slick but pricey. Just my $.02Bob from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Mar 2 12:28:25 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Why???? Matt,I enjoyed what you said about bamboo and let me add I am glad you arestillwith us and I'm sure your parents thank God every day for the same. Myownson is 16 and him and I have been flyfishing together since he was 5. Ibought him a graphite rod to start out with and have since given him 3bamboorods to go with his collection. He always told me that he wanted to fishbamboo since we started because that is what dad fishes with. He brokehisfirst bamboo rod on a Muskegon River Rainbow 2 years ago and I thoughtthepoor little kid was going to die from a broken heart, but I told him don'tworry dad can fix it for you. He comes down to my shop and just stares at the culms of bamboo and Ican tellthat he is getting ready to start making rods any time now.Just like his dad and my dad before me I can tell that he just loves thesmellof a cane rod as it comes out of the tube. You guys know the smell it isthebest smell in the world. Sometimes we just sit and look the rods overwithouta word being spoken, but you can see it in our eyes the love of bamboo. Now Ifish alot with guys who just give me H for sticking with cane but I justdon'tlike anything else. I was down in Tennessee this past week with Carl Richards and he justloves agood graphite rod (is there such a thing?) and he asked me " why don't youfish graphite so you can get some distance in your casts" I just smiled andthought to myself a girl is just a girl but a good cigar is a great smoke.Bret from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Mar 2 14:36:10 1998 Subject: Re: Applying varnish by hand John - it sounds so logical that one wonders why it hasn't been mentionedbefore. Sounds like it meets the most important criterion, it works. Btw,what is the url for the Manhattan Custom Tackle web page? Sounds likeitmight be interesting. Best Regards,Richard from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Mon Mar 2 14:43:53 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Chris,Thanks for the advice. I called Franklin in USA and they directed to theirrepresentatives here in Brazil. They told me they sell TITEBOND-II butonlyin 500 lbs bucket. Then I asked if I could have a sample. Kind guys!. :)Tomorrow I give details about the glues I have tested.Regards,Sergio On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Chris Bogart wrote: SergioHow wet do you plan to get your rods? You will have varnishon them - the cork grip will prob utilize the same glue - so if it getsthatwet - then you will have other problems - big ones. Waterproof is nicebut it is like the discussions on hide glue - it got to get very wet andstaywet - so if you plan to be a responsible rod owner - you will be ok.I would try the yellow first. Also note in Garrison book he didsome of his repairs with white glue.Chris On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:27:53 +0000, Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWA wrote: Chris,Borden has a plant here in Brazil, I bought two glues from them.One is named "wood glue" (in Portuguese) and it's yellow andanother is "Cascorez Extra" and is white. I glued some splicesas a test and will get the results by tomorrow.Probably they aren't water proof, otherwise I think they wouldadvertise on the label, problems?Sergio Chris Bogart wrote: SergioYou prob have an equivalent glue. Franklin makes the stuff I use but itsimilarto most woodworking yellow glues - It will give you a quick grab andset upand youcan unclamp in a hour - but don't stress for 24hrs. Borden has anequivalent glue.Hard to guess brand names in Brazil - but look around. Chris Regards Chris from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Mon Mar 2 14:47:14 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: beveller Terry,Wellcome back to the list. Now I'm in Brazil.Regards,Sergio Dr.If you are genuinely managing to make a living from making bambooflyrodswithout any other means of support you have my deepest admiration. Ihavebeen building rods for over 15 years and it was once my dream to be arodmaker but I decided to stick to tool and die making.You have to make a lot of rods to cover 7 weeks vacation, sick pay, freemedical and dental plus a pension.I had 10 weeks total off work with pay for operations for carpal tunnel,ifI had been a rodmaker working for myself it would have beendevastating.The last time I saw a true professional rodmaker friend of mine hiselectricity had been cut off and his bamboo supplier would not re-supplyhimuntil he had paid for his last shipment.All I am hoping for now is to try to keep the interest going until I takemypension whereby knocking out a few rods pays for a nice vacation.Terry from dhaftel@att.com Mon Mar 2 15:16:40 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 16:17:00-0500 Subject: RE: Lathe Wizards 4.0.995.52 To All, The URL for South Bend Lathes is: http://www.southbendlathecorp.com Cool site, btw. Enjoy... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: LECLAIR123 [SMTP:LECLAIR123@aol.com]Sent: Saturday, February 28, 1998 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards Dave,Try contacting PKE Inc. at 847-362-0014 or try Barry Aronson at 516-798-6330 for South Bend Lathe Parts.I know South Bend Latheshas a web sight.I'm not sure of the address. Try www.South Bend.com ,ifthat doesn't work, maybe some one on the list has there URL Good luck, Dave L. from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Mar 2 15:22:56 1998 Subject: Re: Why? I hate to admit it, but I have an Orvis 2wt graphite that is a blast tofish with. Robert Clarke ----------From: Grhghlndr Subject: Re: Why?Date: Sunday, March 01, 1998 2:22 PM GW,I am glad that you stuck it out and showed those a--holes at Orifice thatyoucan build a better bamboo rod than they could ever hope for. I have anOrifice 8' 6wght Battenhell that is pure junk. They never have built arodthat i thought could cast without falling down on the job after 30 ft.Bret from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Mon Mar 2 15:37:27 1998 Subject: RE: Lathe Wizards There are two South Bend lathe books for sale on eBay. (www.ebay.com)They are both titled "How to Run a Lathe" and are reasonably priced sofar. Item #'s 6900213 and 7123712. -----Original Message-----From: Haftel, Dennis, CT [SMTP:dhaftel@att.com]Sent: Monday, March 02, 1998 1:17 PM Subject: RE: Lathe Wizards To All, The URL for South Bend Lathes is: http://www.southbendlathecorp.com Cool site, btw. Enjoy... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: LECLAIR123 [SMTP:LECLAIR123@aol.com]Sent: Saturday, February 28, 1998 3:03 PM Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards Dave,Try contacting PKE Inc. at 847-362-0014 or tryBarry Aronson at 516-798-6330 for South Bend Lathe Parts.I know South BendLathes has a web sight.I'm not sure of the address. Try www.SouthBend.com ,if that doesn't work, maybe some one on the list has there URL Good luck, Dave L. from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Mon Mar 2 16:06:48 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Mon,2 Mar 1998 16:08:05 CST Subject: varnish tube I'd like to use a plug to close my dipping tube. I have a choice of black rubber, silicone rubber or cork. Opinions? - Grayson from plipton@sunvalley.net Mon Mar 2 17:06:01 1998 forged)) 0700 (208.14.167.33) Subject: beveller Terry: I have one of Al Bellinger's machines. I call it a milling machine todistinguish it from another machine I got from George Maurer. Thebeveler from George cuts a 60 degree angle on one side of a bamboostrip. The strip has to be flipped from side to side on successivepasses. When the strips are cleaned up, straight and flat, then they cango onto Al's milling machine and it will cut a 60 degree angle on bothsides at once as it cuts a taper towards the tip. You need the bevelerto prepare strips for the milling machine. There is a lot of money tied up in two machines. You can build rodswithout them. I agree with George's (DrBamboo) estimate that it savesabout 8 hours of planing. That is a full days work, longer if you haveto split up your time. Getting my strips on to the 60 degree angle inthe form is the most tedious and onerous part of the task - to me. Hereis a way to get it exactly right in short order. Is it worth it? Maybe,I am not selling my setup. The downside to the milling machine is that the strips it produces arenot ready to glue. You still need to do the last 50 thousands in theplaning form. For all that money, you would think you could get it righton the mark. I hope there is a refinement coming down the road that willdo that. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208- 726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Mar 2 17:55:09 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 2Mar 1998 18:56:04 -0500 Subject: Silk Line I am sorry for taking bandw idth but I guess this is bamboo related. I wanted to try restoring a silk line so I stopped by a antique shop. The only line they had was on a H&I automatic reel. Anyone know if these are really common or worth a little money. He wanted $30, but I didn't need a reel that isn't really functional for me. These side mounted it looks like. Anyhow...I was wondering if anyone out here had a old line I could buy/trade for. Just wanted to try something else. Thanks in advance. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Mar 2 18:18:18 1998 Subject: custom tackle/tenn Does anyone have a phone number for Custom Tackle in Tenn. I mailed arequest for a catalog and received no answer from them. Thanks. Regards, Steve from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Mar 2 18:40:21 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Line Jon, I have 2 or 3 lines that look weaved with a plastic-like coating onthem. I think someone mentioned a similar line earlier. Not sure if theyare silk. Anyone know? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Jon Lintvet Subject: Silk LineDate: Monday, March 02, 1998 10:55 AM I am sorry for taking bandw idth but I guess this is bamboo related. I wanted to try restoring a silk line so I stopped by a antique shop. The only line they had was on a H&I automatic reel. Anyone know if these are really common or worth a little money. He wanted $30, but I didn't need a reel that isn't really functional for me. These side mounted it looks like. Anyhow...I was wondering if anyone out here had a old line I could buy/trade for. Just wanted to try something else. Thanks in advance. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 2 19:14:57 1998 0000 Subject: Re: beveller Philip Lipton wrote: Terry: I have one of Al Bellinger's machines. I call it a milling machine todistinguish it from another machine I got from George Maurer. Thebeveler from George cuts a 60 degree angle on one side of a bamboostrip. The strip has to be flipped from side to side on successivepasses. When the strips are cleaned up, straight and flat, then they cango onto Al's milling machine and it will cut a 60 degree angle on bothsides at once as it cuts a taper towards the tip. You need the bevelerto prepare strips for the milling machine. There is a lot of money tied up in two machines. You can build rodswithout them. I agree with George's (DrBamboo) estimate that it savesabout 8 hours of planing. That is a full days work, longer if you haveto split up your time. Getting my strips on to the 60 degree angle inthe form is the most tedious and onerous part of the task - to me. Hereis a way to get it exactly right in short order. Is it worth it? Maybe,I am not selling my setup. The downside to the milling machine is that the strips it produces arenot ready to glue. You still need to do the last 50 thousands in theplaning form. For all that money, you would think you could get it righton the mark. I hope there is a refinement coming down the road that willdo that. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208- 726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ A true one step beveler would have to cost 3-4 times as much as aBellinger. A.J.Thramer from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 2 19:19:15 1998 Subject: McKenzie lines All;Does anyone know anything about the McKenzie Bamboo fly linesadvertized inthe Bamboo Fly Rod magazine? Such as how much are they, are they worthitand can I order them from someplace that is online or has e-mail(I hate tomake a long distance phone call if I can get out of it). Thanks in advance.John Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Mar 2 19:19:28 1998 199820:19:25 -0500 Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless SergioIt will be interesting to see your results - it pays to search around abit. Chris On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 17:44:27 +0000, Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWA wrote: Chris,Thanks for the advice. I called Franklin in USA and they directed to theirrepresentatives here in Brazil. They told me they sell TITEBOND-II butonlyin 500 lbs bucket. Then I asked if I could have a sample. Kind guys!. :)Tomorrow I give details about the glues I have tested.Regards,Sergio On Sat, 28 Feb 1998, Chris Bogart wrote: SergioHow wet do you plan to get your rods? You will have varnishon them - the cork grip will prob utilize the same glue - so if it getsthatwet - then you will have other problems - big ones. Waterproof is nicebut it is like the discussions on hide glue - it got to get very wet andstaywet - so if you plan to be a responsible rod owner - you will be ok.I would try the yellow first. Also note in Garrison book he didsome of his repairs with white glue.Chris On Fri, 27 Feb 1998 13:27:53 +0000, Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWA wrote: Chris,Borden has a plant here in Brazil, I bought two glues from them.One is named "wood glue" (in Portuguese) and it's yellow andanother is "Cascorez Extra" and is white. I glued some splicesas a test and will get the results by tomorrow.Probably they aren't water proof, otherwise I think they wouldadvertise on the label, problems?Sergio Chris Bogart wrote: SergioYou prob have an equivalent glue. Franklin makes the stuff I use butitsimilarto most woodworking yellow glues - It will give you a quick grab andsetup and youcan unclamp in a hour - but don't stress for 24hrs. Borden has anequivalent glue.Hard to guess brand names in Brazil - but look around. Chris Regards Chris from brookside.rod@juno.com Mon Mar 2 19:29:30 1998 20:28:12 EST Subject: Re: bevelers Terry; While we're on the subject of bevelers and mills I might as well chimein. I use a modified hand mill down here to do a couple different operations. Setup one uses plain milling cutters to thickness plane the strips. Setup two employs altered double angle cutters to bevel. Strips are still finished in the forms. Currently working on an Edwardsstyle beveler. Its' being built on a long, recycled bed from a 16 inch lathe. Plentyof mass, shouldwork well. Currently dealing with power out feeds construction. Themachinespermit me to keep a focus on the important detail work. Gary Dabrowski _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from anglport@con2.com Mon Mar 2 19:32:16 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA12427 for Subject: Re: custom tackle/tenn At 06:19 PM 3/2/98 -0800, you wrote:Does anyone have a phone number for Custom Tackle in Tenn. I mailed arequest for a catalog and received no answer from them. Thanks. Regards, Steve Steve,Try 615-684-6164. I don't know if a FAX would be any help but theirs is:615-684-1755. Good luck, they have pretty good resources available.Art from d_price@global2000.net Mon Mar 2 19:52:30 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id UAA21766 for; Mon, 2 Mar 1998 20:52:26 -0500 Subject: Re: beveller Philip Lipton wrote: Terry: I have one of Al Bellinger's machines. I call it a milling machine todistinguish it from another machine I got from George Maurer. Thebeveler from George cuts a 60 degree angle on one side of a bamboostrip. The strip has to be flipped from side to side on successivepasses. When the strips are cleaned up, straight and flat, then they cango onto Al's milling machine and it will cut a 60 degree angle on bothsides at once as it cuts a taper towards the tip. You need the bevelerto prepare strips for the milling machine. There is a lot of money tied up in two machines. You can build rodswithout them. I agree with George's (DrBamboo) estimate that it savesabout 8 hours of planing. That is a full days work, longer if you haveto split up your time. Getting my strips on to the 60 degree angle inthe form is the most tedious and onerous part of the task - to me. Hereis a way to get it exactly right in short order. Is it worth it? Maybe,I am not selling my setup. The downside to the milling machine is that the strips it produces arenot ready to glue. You still need to do the last 50 thousands in theplaning form. For all that money, you would think you could get it righton the mark. I hope there is a refinement coming down the road that willdo that. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208- 726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ don't know where you get these times from, went from 1/4 by 3/16 squarenodless stips to finish planing and measuring to verify accuracy in lessthan 8 hours on waynes 7' 4wt.2 pc. and glued the butt....just finishgluing the tip and all within + or - .00075 may be two spots on one ofthe six faces is .00125..after glueing...granted that nodless allows youto have a deeper grove in your plane and not have tareout problems(deepcuts with each pass and the nodless strips where planed with vertully nocross grain)Dave Price from vjwilson@micron.net Mon Mar 2 20:03:05 1998 Subject: Re: McKenzie lines i ordered one in dt4 that arrived last week. the jury'sstill out on whether i'm completely satisfied. the finishseems a bit rough and they ARE definitely limp. first timei fished it i was not very impressed, but i was so anxiousto try it out i did not treat it. gave it a good treatmentwith some s.a. stuff i had and the next experience wasbetter. i will have to say that the caramel color doesreally look good against cane. cost $40 + $3 usps prioritymail. i used an 800 # that was left on this service quite awhile ago (1-800-437- 3597). leonard in idaho from lblan@provide.net Mon Mar 2 20:20:23 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Why???? Bret; if you ever run into Sam Surre, ask him to tell you the story of thefirst trip out west with "The Force" (the rod on the front cover of Wayne'sbook). He got into a "casting contest" with a fellow on the river who wassporting a graphite rod..... -----Original Message----- I was down in Tennessee this past week with Carl Richards and he justlovesagood graphite rod (is there such a thing?) and he asked me " why don't youfish graphite so you can get some distance in your casts" from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Mar 2 20:27:00 1998 199821:26:51 -0500 Subject: Re: Silk Line JonThe line was worth more than the reel in this case - not a badprice for a silk line - plus a free reel - cannot go wrong. Can yougo back and buy the line for me and I am sure the reel would makea nice display piece in the shop. Chris On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 18:55:22 +0000, Jon Lintvet wrote: I am sorry for taking bandw idth but I guess this is bamboo related. I wanted to try restoring a silk line so I stopped by a antique shop. The only line they had was on a H&I automatic reel. Anyone know if these are really common or worth a little money. He wanted $30, but I didn't need a reel that isn't really functional for me. These side mounted it looks like. Anyhow...I was wondering if anyone out here had a old line I could buy/trade for. Just wanted to try something else. Thanks in advance. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Mar 2 20:37:23 1998 199821:37:13 -0500 Subject: RE: Why???? Larry You. are right - where did this great myth come from that bamboodoesn't have power or make long casts? I have embarrassed peoplewith the power in a bamboo rod when I needed to do so - but thatis not why I build them. Furthermore, I do not need to fish 20+ feetinto my backing! I like to get them on the other end of the scale - askthem to cast leader only - then work their way out. Chris .On Mon, 2 Mar 1998 21:16:00 -0500, Larry Blan wrote: Bret; if you ever run into Sam Surre, ask him to tell you the story of thefirst trip out west with "The Force" (the rod on the front cover ofWayne'sbook). He got into a "casting contest" with a fellow on the river who wassporting a graphite rod..... -----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr I was down in Tennessee this past week with Carl Richards and he justlovesagood graphite rod (is there such a thing?) and he asked me " why don'tyoufish graphite so you can get some distance in your casts" from FarAndFine@aol.com Mon Mar 2 20:40:01 1998 Subject: Re: bevelers In a message dated 3/2/98 9:26:27 PM Eastern Standard Time,brookside.rod@juno.com writes: And as the owner of one of your rods Gary - (7 1/2 ' 5 wt) I must say it ispaying off - Al WoodardManchester NH from CALucker@aol.com Mon Mar 2 20:42:02 1998 Subject: Re: bevelers I have built several mills myself, and wish you the best with the Edwards- style beveler. My one try at a beveler never worked very well. I used two lathe headsfromTaig with slitting saw arbors and slitting saws. Well, you can guess whatthematter was. The saw blades were not stiff enough, and of course theyweredesigned to cut metal, not wood. They flexed too much. The saw bladesneededto be stiffer. The Leonard saw blades, according to Kusse, were about thesixe of a Ritz Cracker and shaped like a discus -- thicker in the middle andtapering toward the perimeter.Anyway, I have made a couple of older Winston-style mills, but couldnever geta good finish cut with them. My best mill, and the one I use now isbasicallymade from salvaged parts from a regular metal milling machine. millcan be made from an old cast iron six inch planer -- just replace the shaftinside to one that will use your 60 degree cutters and add some heavyspring-loaded guides and a fence, and some MDF for the bed so that the tips of thecutters have something to chew into when you lower them. Use a one hpmotorand DO NOT CLIMB CUT ON YOUR ROUGH MILL.The best and easiest finish mills can be made with a big Dumore Grinderhead,or a milling machine head, or a millimg attachment for a big lathe, oranything precision that goes up and down at a precise and controllablerate.Go to the used tooling stores -- the light bulb will go off in your head.Keep it simple and heavy. Cast iron is great for killing vibration -- thebiggest enemy to good milling.Sorry I got going on this subject, but I have made more mills the past fouryears than rods.Chris Lucker from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 2 21:08:39 1998 Tue, 3 Mar 1998 11:08:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE: Why???? On Mon, 2 Mar 1998, Larry Blan wrote: Bret; if you ever run into Sam Surre, ask him to tell you the story of thefirst trip out west with "The Force" (the rod on the front cover ofWayne'sbook). He got into a "casting contest" with a fellow on the river who wassporting a graphite rod..... -----Original Message-----From: Grhghlndr I agree with this. I was fishing on a river called the "Blackwood" with a giude and without intending to we both realised we were competing for distance as we were both casting to the same spot in the same riffle.He had a decent graphite rod (I don't remember what but it cost) and I was armed with a Driggs. Distance wise there was nothing in it, but I got the fish. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Mar 2 21:29:51 1998 Subject: Re: beveller In a message dated 98-03-02 21:48:07 EST, you write: David;Do that every day of your life without fail.See how your hands andshouldershold upMaybe you're a superman for a few years,but you reach a point when you'renotanimmortal anymore,and each day you've got to get up and do it again,.GEM from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Mar 2 21:49:16 1998 Subject: Re: varnish tube In a message dated 98-03-02 18:24:35 EST, you write: Grayson: I have a dip tube as described in Wayne's book except nothingabovethe reducer coupler epoxied to the top of the tube. I tried one of theexpandable black rubber, or neoprene, plugs sold at plumbing supplyhouses,and the varnish ate it. Used a wooden plug turned on a lathe, but as timewent on, bits and pieces of the varnish that had dried on the plug began tocontaminate the varnish in the tube (was unable to avoid varnish gettingontoand drying on the plug) . Now I simply take a small square of doubled alumfoil, squeeze it over the tube opening, twist it down a bit and secure withastrong rubber band. No problems since. A bit simplistic, but it works.Regards,Richard from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Mar 2 21:57:00 1998 (205.236.248.114) Subject: Re: Applying varnish by hand John A. Whitaker wrote: Okay, Here is my poor man's technique for varnish. I think it is awhole lot easier than brushing and you don't have to make any diptubes. (BTW: this isn't original, I read about it on the ManhattanCustom Tackle web page and said no way... the I tried it. It worksgreat.) I hang the rod pieces in the shop. I used warm varish or actuall I havebeen coating using Flexicoat epoxy... Get surgical glove. If it hastalcum on it as a preservative (you'll see it) slip the gole on andrinse you hands in water. Now dry up. This is you applicator. Load youfingeres with your coating. Start at the top of the rod, wrap yourfingers around, and then slide you hand down. The glove will start todrag when you are running low with coating. Try changing you grip orreload you hand with coating. When you get to the bottom, go back tothe top and try to squiggy the coating off with you hand. You want evenresistance from top to bottom. I can do two sections in 15 minutes with setup and cleanup. You canworking the coating thin and do three coats with light sanding between. It works so well, I haven't bothered to do anything else. P.S. The flexicoat epoxy can be colored with epoxy pigments.Troanslucent or opaque tones are possible. The best source for this(that I have found) is bumming some from a shop that does fiberglassboat repairs... John,the mandate of this list is to make rodmaking as difficult as possible andoffering simple solutions is highly frowned upon.Great idea, even though none of us will try it!Terry from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Mar 2 22:18:10 1998 Subject: Re: Applying varnish by hand Terry -Great to have you back on the list. Missed your insightfulcommentary. I have a question for the machinist in you. I bought a nice littlescraper made in England, but it certainly isn't a Sheffield steelblade. If I were to build my own 1/8" x 1/2 " blade, what kind of steeldo I want to buy? Brian from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Mar 2 23:02:04 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Why???? Bret,Who says you can't get distance with a cane rod? Carl should knowbetter.Hank. from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Mar 3 00:43:20 1998 Subject: Re: Applying varnish by hand In a message dated 98-03-02 23:05:09 EST, you write: Actually, one of us just did. Pretty cool. Got a little thick with the firstsection but the next one (the butt) was pretty impressive. Thankee John!Davy Riggs from channer@frontier.net Tue Mar 3 01:55:10 1998 Subject: McKenzie lines Leonard;Thanks for the info. Does it float comparable to a 444?John Channer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 3 06:48:01 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Why???? Larry,I have proved many times to graphite guys ( including Carl ) that I can castmy boo as far as most of them can cast their graphite crap.Bret from tom@cet-inc.com Tue Mar 3 07:25:22 1998 0000 Subject: Re: McKenzie lines I've been using the McKenzie lines for a few months now and find the 4wtinDT and WF to work very well on cane rods. They definately need a gooddressing. Russ Peak from McKenzie is excellent. I've also ordered severallines for my friends. The only negative I can find is that below freezingthe line gets a little kinky, but so do many others in similar conditions.Tom Whittle---------- from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Tue Mar 3 07:35:29 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 3 Mar 1998 08:34:55 -0500 Subject: Re: Applying varnish by hand Fallcreek9 wrote: John - it sounds so logical that one wonders why it hasn't beenmentionedbefore. Sounds like it meets the most important criterion, it works. Btw,what is the url for the Manhattan Custom Tackle web page? Sounds likeitmight be interesting. Best Regards,RichardManhattan custom tackle can be found at - http://fishdoc.com/ There focus is plastic rods but good advive that would apply to bamboo. Also, REC components, guides, all sorts of stuff. from vjwilson@micron.net Tue Mar 3 08:05:55 1998 Subject: Re: McKenzie lines john, well, when i didn't treat it, after a while it kindastarted to 'take on water'. when treated it was fine. onlyother trouble was that the plastic coating is so soft i hada little trouble with my nail knot ripping it off. i mayhave been a little over zealous pulling on them though. tomis right, they do need to be dressed and mine did notstraighten out like i wanted at first (but then the watertemp was about 38).leonard from bairdart@burgoyne.com Tue Mar 3 09:33:11 1998 Subject: Re: Why???? Grhghlndr wrote: Larry,I have proved many times to graphite guys ( including Carl ) that I cancastmy boo as far as most of them can cast their graphite crap.BretBret, No disrespect intended, but isn't the idea of fly fishing to stalk,trick, and catch fish, and then if your into it, put the fish back only as good as the person on the other end of it. Just my .02cts worth. from rmoon@ida.net Tue Mar 3 09:33:31 1998 Subject: Re: test boundary="------------1A483FCEBF78A4F8314B0FF7" --------------1A483FCEBF78A4F8314B0FF7 Hank: You wrote: Ralph,I've rec'd so many messages-about 50/day that I'm consideringunsubscribing.Regards,Hank. You bring up a point that has bothered me for some time. I know I wascomplaining about too few messages, but that was a glitch, I think in myserver. Fifty a day does seem to be excessive and when the content is analyzedit really is excessive. At the risk of being shot down in flames, Iwould like to point out that a year or so ago, the list had far fewermessages, but they all seemed to be pertinent, and I even welcomed a fewmore than usual. Recently it seems that the list has become more like achat room than a serious forum for rodbuilders. We have had a number oflong drawn out threads that have cluttered the rodlist. The "lady" downunder with her use of the F word, the interminable posting of unusualplace names etc, are but a couple of examples of what I mean. I don'twant to come across as an old Fogy, and a little fun is ok, but I simplydon't have the time to wade through a mass of material that is at bestonly 50% valuable to me. I am making no accusations against anyone onthe list. I know that I too have been guilty of what I am worriedabout, but as the list increases in numbers (over 400 now) this problemcould grow to unmanageable proportions. I would like to propose that we each, indivdually, try to keep the chitchat down and use the rodlist primarily for the purpose that it wasformulated. I would hate to take the drastic step you proposed, and Ihope that you don"t take it either, but I may have to in self defense My apologies if I have offended any one. It was not my intention. Ralph --------------1A483FCEBF78A4F8314B0FF7 Ralph, consideringunsubscribing. Hank. I was complaining about too few messages, but that was a glitch, I thinkin my server. Fifty a day does seem to be excessive and when the content is analyzed I would like to point out that a year or so ago, the list had far fewermessages, but they all seemed to be pertinent, and I even welcomed a few posting of unusual place names etc, are but a couple of examples of what fun is ok, but I simply don't have the time to wade through a mass ofmaterial what I am worried about, but as the list increases in numbers (over 400now) this problem could grow to unmanageable proportions. I would like to propose that we each, indivdually, try to keep the chitchat down and use the rodlist primarily for the purpose that it was I would hate to take the drastic step you proposed, and I hope that youdon"t take it either, but I may have to in self defense Ralph --------------1A483FCEBF78A4F8314B0FF7-- from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Mar 3 10:30:04 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo and I Thanks for the info Phil. Did some rough planing last night and still planto do the 6'3" 3wt. I got my ferrules the other day. Tiny! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Philip Lipton Subject: Bamboo and IDate: Sunday, March 01, 1998 7:31 AM Robert: Wayne's 6'3" rod is my personal favorite. I have built it both as a twopiece and as a three piece. I prefer the two piece but for travelingfellows, a case 2'1" long is very handy. I consider this a dry fly rod and casting to them. This rod has a delicate presentation. The shortlength is easy to handle hiking through the trees and it does not getwrapped up in overhanging limbs when casting. It is also fun todemonstrate to my graphite buddies that size is not everything. Afinesse rod can land very big fish. When conditions change to windy days and big water, I change rods. The6'3" rod does not have the length I need to mend my line on long driftsthrough rough water. It also lacks the backbone to chuck and duck. Imean nymphing with split shot and indicators - not that I do thatmyself. There are no witnesses and you couldn't prove I did it. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208- 726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 3 10:57:39 1998 0000 Subject: Re: test Ralph W Moon wrote: Hank: You wrote: Ralph,I've rec'd so many messages-about 50/day that I'm consideringunsubscribing.Regards,Hank. You bring up a point that has bothered me for some time. I know I wascomplaining about too few messages, but that was a glitch, I think inmy server. Fifty a day does seem to be excessive and when the content is analyzedit really is excessive. At the risk of being shot down in flames, Iwould like to point out that a year or so ago, the list had far fewermessages, but they all seemed to be pertinent, and I even welcomed afew more than usual. Recently it seems that the list has become morelike a chat room than a serious forum for rodbuilders. We have had anumber of long drawn out threads that have cluttered the rodlist. The>"lady" down under with her use of the F word, the interminableposting of unusual place names etc, are but a couple of examples ofwhat I mean. I don't want to come across as an old Fogy, and a littlefun is ok, but I simply don't have the time to wade through a mass ofmaterial that is at best only 50% valuable to me. I am making noaccusations against anyone on the list. I know that I too have beenguilty of what I am worried about, but as the list increases innumbers (over 400 now) this problem could grow to unmanageableproportions. I would like to propose that we each, indivdually, try to keep thechit chat down and use the rodlist primarily for the purpose that itwas formulated. I would hate to take the drastic step you proposed,and I hope that you don"t take it either, but I may have to in selfdefense My apologies if I have offended any one. It was not my intention. RalphYeah Ralph! I have but one word as example HELL!A.J. from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Mar 3 11:27:53 1998 Subject: Re: test It doesn't take me long to wade through the daily postings. If youleave your pointer on the delete icon you can buzz through the crap inshort order! Brian from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Tue Mar 3 11:56:40 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Hi All! YES AGAIN! I appologize for returning to this topic. Acording to Borden's representative there are european norms (DIN EN203and EN204) that defines the quality degree and resistance of glues forwoodwork. In general when considering wood working glues the maximumtemperatureis at about 60C (158F) when considering termal resistance it is at about 120C (293F), then: D1 - general purpose wood working glue;D2 - termal resistance and a slight degree of humidity resistance;D3 - water resistance;D4 - termal resistance and water proof I understand that the sample is not so representative, but for additionaltestI have to wait for my next Tonkin cane bundle, otherwise I won't be able to even build one rod. Type Fails No Fail Strips Maker Classification-------------------- --------------------------------------------------Araldite 2 1 3 Ciba GeigeResourcinol 0 3 3 DAP WeldwoodUF Cascamite 2 3 5 Custom Pack/BordenYellow PVA 3 2 5 Alba/Borden D2White PVA 3 2 5 Alba/Borden D1 No fails mean the splice broke on the enamel side with some splintering. "Fails" mean enamel side broke without splintering, in this case thethickness of the enamel side is at about 1 to 2mm.I would like to know if anybody have any insights about the results andmeanto improve the acuracy and reliability of this test. This is still incomplete, I plan to add tests for TITEBOND-II as well as redoing the test Regards,Sergio PS1: What you guys think about a patwork lucking nodeless bamboo rod? PS2: I don't have any link with the industries mentioned and don'trecommend any use of this information beyond this newsgroup. PS3: Sorry for using so much bandwith. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Mar 3 12:01:56 1998 Subject: Re: test -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: test It doesn't take me long to wade through the daily postings. If youleave your pointer on the delete icon you can buzz through the crap inshort order! Brian Brian, I once received a message to the effect "someone has WAY to much time . .." telling me to shut-up. BEST MESSAGE I ever received on the list!!Perhaps someother mouthy people might appreciate receiving that kind ofmessage as well?! ted g. from dhaftel@att.com Tue Mar 3 12:29:08 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 13:28:17-0500 Subject: RE: UF glue and Nodeless 4.0.995.52 Sergio, Do not apologize for returning to a topic if you have information thatyou feel is valuable to the members of the list (which you obvoiuslydo!). Hopefully the favor can be returned some day... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Sergio Hiroshi ISHIKAWA [SMTP:ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br]Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 1998 9:55 AM Subject: Re: UF glue and Nodeless Hi All! YES AGAIN! I appologize for returning to this topic. Acording to Borden's representative there are european norms (DIN EN203and EN204) that defines the quality degree and resistance of glues forwoodwork. In general when considering wood working glues the maximumtemperatureis at about 60C (158F) when considering termal resistance it is at about 120C (293F), then: D1 - general purpose wood working glue;D2 - termal resistance and a slight degree of humidity resistance;D3 - water resistance;D4 - termal resistance and water proof I understand that the sample is not so representative, but for additionaltestI have to wait for my next Tonkin cane bundle, otherwise I won't be ableto even build one rod. Type Fails No Fail Strips Maker Classification--------------------- -------------------------------------------------Araldite 2 1 3 Ciba GeigeResourcinol 0 3 3 DAP WeldwoodUF Cascamite 2 3 5 Custom Pack/BordenYellow PVA 3 2 5 Alba/Borden D2White PVA 3 2 5 Alba/Borden D1 No fails mean the splice broke on the enamel side with some splintering. "Fails" mean enamel side broke without splintering, in this case thethickness of the enamel side is at about 1 to 2mm.I would like to know if anybody have any insights about the results andmeanto improve the acuracy and reliability of this test. This is still incomplete, I plan to add tests for TITEBOND-II as well as redoing thetest Regards,Sergio PS1: What you guys think about a patwork lucking nodeless bamboo rod? PS2: I don't have any link with the industries mentioned and don'trecommend any use of this information beyond this newsgroup. PS3: Sorry for using so much bandwith. from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Tue Mar 3 13:20:19 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: RE : Annotated Archives on CD? Darryl,what exactly you mean about "annotated" ? Sergio from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 3 13:49:13 1998 Subject: Non Rodmaker Content (Was: test) I would like to propose that we each, indivdually, try to keep thechit chat down and use the rodlist primarily for the purpose that itwas formulated. I would hate to take the drastic step you proposed,and I hope that you don"t take it either, but I may have to in selfdefense My apologies if I have offended any one. It was not my intention. Ralph I will agree heartily with this. The reason I signed off of the FF@ listwas the content more than the number of posts. I think I could dealwith the hundred or so posts from that list if they all dealt with flyfishing. On the other hand there probably wouldn't be a hundredposts if they all had something to do with the subject. I wouldhate to see this list become what the the FF@ list has become. But, this is a democracy. If the majority wants to chit chat, then nothing I can do can stop them. The only thing I can do is quit the list like Hank and Ralph are considering. Darryl Hayashida from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 3 14:51:21 1998 Subject: glue I have built many rods with URAC, and rescorcinol. A few with weldwood.Good results with URAC mixed 4:1. Weldwood unacceptable. No heatresistance. The best glue irrespective of glue lines would berescorcinol, to which I have returned.A.J.Thramer from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Mar 3 15:52:55 1998 (205.236.248.115) Subject: Re: Applying varnish by hand Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Terry -Great to have you back on the list. Missed your insightfulcommentary. I have a question for the machinist in you. I bought a nice littlescraper made in England, but it certainly isn't a Sheffield steelblade. If I were to build my own 1/8" x 1/2 " blade, what kind of steeldo I want to buy? Brian Brian,thanks.You need some 'ground flat stock' made by many manufacturers butprobablythe most common in the states is Starrett brand. it is available in 18 inchlengths and a wide variety of cross sections. it is an oil hardening steelbut water is easier if you just heat the first 1 inch to a cherry red andplunge it in the water. Should not need to draw it back.I am positive this is the steel the guy at hock uses, just a good qualityinexpensivetool steel to which he adds a very fancy price.Terry from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Tue Mar 3 17:03:54 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id XAA26200 for; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 23:03:19 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Non Rodmaker Content (Was: test) ----------From: SalarFly . The only thing I can do is quit the list like Hank and Ralph are considering. Darryl Hayashida Sir D, and others thinking of unsubscribing Please stay tuned to this channel. Eventually the small talk willdissapear, I trust. Best regards Carsten from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Mar 3 17:30:41 1998 Subject: Re: test I stand accused from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Mar 3 17:35:04 1998 Subject: Re: Applying varnish by hand Terry-MSC list an A2 steel, a D2 steel and several others. I'm guessing Iwant a high carbon content? Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 3 17:45:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Why???? Bairdart,You missed the point. I wasn't saying anything about the idea of flyfishingIwas just stating that when graphite guys have made comments aboutbamboo notbeing any good for distance I have shown them that is not true by castingasfar as they can. Oh and by the way I don't kill any trout, salmon etc. forany reason. Even if hooked deep I feel they deserve to die in their onelement. And you are right the equipment Is only as good as the personbehindit and that goes for anything not just fishing. No disrespect taken,opinionsare like nose, everyone has one.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 3 17:48:47 1998 Subject: Re: Re: test Ralph,I think you have a valid point here about to much BS that doesn't need to behere. I too know I have been guilty of same so here is my pledge to thelist.I for one will take it upon myself to not clutter the list anymore with nonbamboo rod related stuff. This will be my last such post. If I slipsomeoneplease chastise me (off list). And maybe that is the way we should allhandleany such further e-mails not pertaining to the art of bamboo rod making. Ihope this does not offend anyone out there and if it does please tell me offlist.Bret from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Mar 3 18:01:21 1998 TAA17834;Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:01:01 -0500 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4845056=_=_=_"Subject: Re: test --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4845056=_=_=_ Ralph / Hank This is a valid point that I hope some people take to heart. I don'tmind sharing information and ideas - At times I now cringe when I logon and there is 58 messages to down load - tonight was mild - only 38but I find myself not reading a lot of them and simply deleting themunread. Like an old professor I had used to say "cut to the chase".A lot of reply are really not worth the bandwidth they take up. Thewould be best left unsent or sent privately to the originator. Chris --Original Message Text--- =FF Hank:=FF You wrote: Ralph, =FF=FF I've rec'd so many messages-about 50/day that I'm considering unsubscribing. =FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF Regards, =FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF=FF Hank. You bring up a point that has bothered me for some time.=FF I know I was=complaining about too few messages, but that was a glitch, I think in my server. Fifty a day does seem to be excessive and when the content is analyzed i=t really is excessive.=FF At the risk of being shot down in flames,=FF I would like to point out that a year or s=o ago, the list had far fewer messages, but they all seemed to be pertinent, and I even welcomed a few more than=usual.=FF Recently it seems that the list has become more like a chat room than a serious forum for rodbuilde=rs.=FF We have had a number of long drawn out threads that have cluttered the rodlist.=FF The "lady" down un=der with her use of the F word,=FF the interminable posting of unusual place names etc, are but a couple of exa=mples of what I mean.=FF I don't want to come across as an old Fogy, and a little fun is ok, but I simply don'=t have the time to wade through a mass of material that is at best only 50% valuable to me.=FF I am making=no accusations against anyone on the list.=FF I know that I too have been guilty of what I am worried abo=ut, but as the list increases in numbers (over 400 now) this problem could grow to unmanageable proportions. I would like to propose that we each, indivdually, try to keep the chit =chat down and use the rodlist primarily tic step you proposed, and I hope that you don"t take it either, but I may have to in self defense My apologies if I have offended any one.=FF It was not my intention. Ralph --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4845056=_=_=_ Ralph / Hank This is a valid point that I hope some people take to heart. I don'=tmind sharing information and ideas - At times I now cringe when I logon and there is 58 messages to down load - tonight was mild - only38but I find myself not reading a lot of them and simply deleting them= unread. Like an old professor I had used to say "cut to the chase".= A lot of reply are really not worth the bandwidth they take up. The= would be best left unsent or sent privately to the originator. Chris --Original Message Text---From: Ralph W MoonDate: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 08:19:00 -0700 Ralph, conside=ring unsubscribing. as complaining about too few messages, but that was a glitch, I think in=my server. Fifty a day does seem to be excessive and when the content is analyzed i= sp;I would like to point out that a year or so ago, the list had far few=er messages, but they all seemed to be pertinent, and I even welcomed a = mor= d a number of long drawn out threads that have cluttered the rodlist.&nb= le posting of unusual place names etc, are but a couple of examples of w= e fun is ok, but I simply don't have the time to wade through a mass of = uilty of what I am worried about, but as the list increases in numbers (=over 400 now) this problem could grow to unmanageable proportions. I would like to propose that we each, indivdually, try to keep the chit =chat down and use the rodlist primarily for the purpose that it was form= ope that you don"t take it either, but I may have to in self defense Ralph --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4845056=_=_=_-- from d_price@global2000.net Tue Mar 3 18:04:32 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id TAA16557 for; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:04:27 -0500 Subject: Re: beveller DrBamboo wrote: In a message dated 98-03-02 21:48:07 EST, you write: David;Do that every day of your life without fail.See how your hands andshouldershold upMaybe you're a superman for a few years,but you reach a point whenyou're notanimmortal anymore,and each day you've got to get up and do it again,.GEM I"ve done it every day for 25 years (master woodworker)Dave Price from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Mar 3 18:12:35 1998 Subject: Re: Silk line?? Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: I just bought 4 oldish reels ( a big ole' Medalist, an Ocean City, aPflueger 'Gem" and a south bend that looks like a St George) One lineis very obviously silk, two of the others are obviously 333's and thefourth has me scratchin' my head. It is a nice golden color, extremelysupple, looks braided, but has a plastic cover. Could this be silk?? BrianBrian,Is the braid tapered? If the braid is tapered and the coating uniform,it may be (probably is) silk, but nevertheless, will have many of thepleasant properties of silk. I have such a line and truly enjoy it. I amloath to strip the coating off the end and apply the match test, but ifyou must know, that is the way to find out.Best regards,Reed from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Mar 3 18:31:11 1998 Subject: Don't go - please stay - Here's an idea !-Re: test RO>Ralph / Hank RO> This is a valid point that I hope some people take to heart. Idon'tRO>mind sharing information and ideas - At times I now cringe when I logRO>on and there is 58 messages to down load - tonight was mild - only 38RO>but I find myself not reading a lot of them and simply deleting themRO>unread. Like an old professor I had used to say "cut to the chase".RO> A lot of reply are really not worth the bandwidth they take up. TheRO>would be best left unsent or sent privately to the originator. RO> Chris I'd hate to see people leave do to too many messages (so I'm adding to #of postings) - maybe a better solution would be for all of us to taketime and spell out what each post is all about - where it will allow useof the "D" key - in the message header. IE - If someone wants to know about glue - don't post a "Help" header -say something like: "Novice needs help with URAC use." Also, start a new thread if you've gone off on a tangent - vs adding to"why" or "Re: test". Please stick around - wait until fishing season starts, the message loadwill go down. Don Burns from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Mar 3 19:07:04 1998 Subject: Re: custom tackle/tenn Try-- 615-684-6164 phone 615-684-1755 fax Custom Tackle Supply Dave LeClair from channer@frontier.net Tue Mar 3 19:07:06 1998 Subject: McKenzie lines Len and Tom;Thanks for the response guys, I'll probably give one a try. I spend moretime on the San Juan than anywhere else and my 444 takes a dozen or morecasts before it limbers up, too. The water there runs between 38 and 44year around. $40 for a fly line is pretty reasonable if its 90' and notjunk, I don't think you can get a 57' line at K-Mart for that. One lastquestion and then I promise to drop the subject, what do you recomendtreating it with. Thanks again.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Tue Mar 3 19:10:11 1998 Subject: bakelite reel seat All;Any good ideas for removing a well glued bakelite reel seat would be muchappreciated. Tried boiling water, but didn't budge it, my only other ideais to chuck it up in the lathe and turn it off. T.I.A.John Channer from jfoster@gte.net Tue Mar 3 19:13:17 1998 Subject: web Just added a couple of links to Jon lintvet's new page,, one undermakers, the other under suppliers, check it out, he clams to have glacecotton of the correct? sizes for those of you who were asking for asource. other goodies too. hope this isn't chat. Jerry from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Mar 3 19:29:55 1998 Subject: Re: bakelite reel seat John,I've had some real hard cases. Usually if I heat it long enoughwith an alcohol flame ,so it's too hot to grab, then I grab it with a rag and pullit straight off. I wouldn't twist it, as it may twist the cane under the reel seat andmaybebreak it off. If all else fails, you may have to use your lathe. Yet, here isanother idea. I've removed quite a few by first removing the metal at the rear andthen Ilay the reel seat on my large belt sander,with a very coarse belt, and tookoffdown to the cane. Then using my jack knife, I pry the rest off.It usually popsright off. Hope this helps, Dave LeClair from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Mar 3 19:32:02 1998 Subject: Milward Binder/Unsubscribing How is the rod propelled through the Milward binder? Is it pushedthrough by hand or does the action of the thread impel it through? I must have missed the flare ups of the posts being off of the mark. Ihope I haven't been guilty with my progress reports. I know what Darrylis talking about at the FF@ list, there is a lot of chaff there but alsosome wonderful "grain". I hope none of the people who have considered leaving do, I am very muchindebted to you for where I am now. I look forward to gleaning whatinfo I can every evening prior to going into the shop. If anyone doesdecide to leave they will be sorely missed. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from rkovalak@bright.net Tue Mar 3 20:01:50 1998 sparticus.bright.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/FNG) with ESMTP id UAA08782; Tue, 3Mar 1998 Subject: Bamboo Pie Splitters (Hida Tool) ListServ: I have ordered a six-section pie splitter to use on the Demarest cane Ireceived recently. If anyone on the list has used this 'apparatus' andis willing to share experience/tips on use please respond off-list todiscuss. I would hate to ruin this beautiful cane [for which I waitedwell over a year to get]. Thanks in advance.--Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Mar 3 20:18:52 1998 (205.236.249.89) Subject: Re: Applying varnish by hand Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Terry-MSC list an A2 steel, a D2 steel and several others. I'm guessing Iwant a high carbon content? Brian You should look for an O-1 steel ( pronounced like oh 1) D1 and D2 steelsare air hardening so cannot be done at home.Terry from hood@hpesdah.fc.hp.com Tue Mar 3 20:20:12 1998 (1.38.193.4/15.5+IOS 3.22) id AA23515; Tue, 3 Mar 1998 19:20:08 -0700 Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods Dean,I have a spreadsheet that has an input for hollowing factor and cancalculate the stress curve for you. I have not yet prepared sufficientdocumentation such that someone else could drive these equations, butif you would like to send me the information for your rod I will beglad to return a stress curve. Please include the taper (includingany varnish allowances) the line weight and length and the hollowingat each point.Davidhood@fc.hp.com from jfoster@gte.net Tue Mar 3 20:30:03 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Pie Splitters (Hida Tool) Please respond to Ron ON the list, this is the stuff we ARE interestedin. Jerry from mcreek@sirus.com Tue Mar 3 20:44:21 1998 Subject: Re: steel for blades Thanks, Terry. Looks like it costs about $7 for 18". Brian from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Mar 3 20:52:02 1998 (205.236.249.89) Subject: Re: Non Rodmaker Content (Was: test) SalarFly wrote: I would like to propose that we each, indivdually, try to keep thechit chat down and use the rodlist primarily for the purpose that itwas formulated. I would hate to take the drastic step you proposed,and I hope that you don"t take it either, but I may have to in selfdefense My apologies if I have offended any one. It was not my intention. Ralph I will agree heartily with this. The reason I signed off of the FF@ listwas the content more than the number of posts. I think I could dealwith the hundred or so posts from that list if they all dealt with flyfishing. On the other hand there probably wouldn't be a hundredposts if they all had something to do with the subject. I wouldhate to see this list become what the the FF@ list has become.But, this is a democracy. If the majority wants to chit chat, thennothing I can do can stop them. The only thing I can do is quit thelist like Hank and Ralph are considering. Darryl Hayashida I was on the ff list a couple of years ago and found that a group of oldscrotums thought that they ran the list and got very annoyed if youmanagedto get a long thread going . They would only reply to each others postingsand would constantly congratulate each other for being so smart.There is only so much you can discuss in rodmaking and fly fishing and alittle diversion now and again can be amusing. It is easy enough to delete If you know that a regular contributor usually deals in private chit chat oris perhaps self serving, then delete whatever he posts. Works great forme.Terry from vjwilson@micron.net Tue Mar 3 21:23:57 1998 Subject: Re: McKenzie lines john, my line's too new to have given much of a test. as isaid i fished it 2 days, one untreated (don't do that) andone with s.a. fly line dressing (which seemed to work ok).anxious to see what tom has to say.leonard from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Mar 3 22:00:37 1998 Subject: Re: test -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: test I stand accused It doesn't take me long to wade through the daily postings. If youleave your pointer on the delete icon you can buzz through the crap inshort order! Brian Brian,I once received a message to the effect "someone has WAY to much time . .." telling me to shut-up. BEST MESSAGE I ever received on the list!!Perhaps someother mouthy people might appreciate receiving that kind ofmessage as well?!ted g. Brian,I neglected to say when posting the above that the above is definitely NOTdirected toward you in anyway, shape or form!!!. I was awkwardly tryingtosay that for some of us, using the delete button gets old after a while andperhaps a more direct method could work - worked for me (except that Ihaveposted two messages on this non-rod building subject today!). Most Respectfully, Ted Godfrey from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Mar 3 23:04:21 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 4Mar 1998 00:05:13 -0500 Subject: Re: web Thanks for the kind comments...before you all waste your time looking, you should know there is not a lot there. Take care. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from skyboss@ibm.net Tue Mar 3 23:11:09 1998 out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id FAA147532 for; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 05:11:05 GMT Subject: Re: Non Rodmaker Content (Was: test) Terry wrote: I was on the ff list a couple of years ago and found that a group of oldscrotums thought that they ran the list and got very annoyed if youmanagedto get a long thread going . They would only reply to each others postingsand would constantly congratulate each other for being so smart. Terry ******************************************************************** Thanks for masking me laugh but sometimes the truth hurts....... ex FF@ Ken Holder from tom@cet-inc.com Wed Mar 4 06:40:37 1998 0000 Subject: Re: McKenzie lines Russ Peak's Line Dressing is also distributed by McKenzie and works verywell on the Bamboo line. I didn't realize that the San Juan stayed that coldyear round. Best of luck.Tom---------- Subject: McKenzie lines Len and Tom;One last question and then I promise to drop the subject, what do yourecomendtreating it with. Thanks again.John Channer from harry37@epix.net Wed Mar 4 07:26:51 1998 IAA13730 Subject: Re: bakelite reel seat john channer wrote: All;Any good ideas for removing a well glued bakelite reel seat would bemuchappreciated. Tried boiling water, but didn't budge it, my only other ideais to chuck it up in the lathe and turn it off. T.I.A.John Channer John, If your heat source has softened the bakelite, and you're notinterested in saving it, try nibbling pieces of it away with a pair of12" channel lock pliers. If the bakelite is soft enough, you'll be ableto bite off sections with the pliers, and then clean off any leftoverglue with a little sandpaper. I've had good results with the two orthree reel seats I tried this on when nothing else seemed to work, and Irealized that I didn't want the old seat anyway. Greg Kuntz from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Mar 4 07:44:18 1998 Subject: Re: test In a message dated 98-03-03 23:07:19 EST, you write: Ted - I do not remember seeing the above comment , but did wonder whereyouhad gone. Missed your insightful and pertinent comments and dialog. Ipersonally encourage you to speak out. Have been on this list for only two years, but have noticed some trends. Thenew guys often come on strong with youth (to the list, anyway), vim andvitality and contribute a lot because of enthusiasm and energy. A lot ofgoodstuff comes from that. Ex., reference your posting about taper hex pins. I bamboo'snatural radius, which can be maintained quite a bit in the wider flats nearthe hand grip. Actually, should be maintained if true adherence to notharming the top layer of power fibers is maintained. So, hope you do notkeeptoo hidden. Best Regards,Richard from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Mar 4 08:02:41 1998 Wed, 4 Mar 1998 22:02:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Scrotums, Occum's(sp?) razor and Shell epon epoxy. On Tue, 3 Mar 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: I was on the ff list a couple of years ago and found that a group of oldscrotums thought that they ran the list and got very annoyed if youmanagedto get a long thread going . They would only reply to each others postingsand would constantly congratulate each other for being so smart.There is only so much you can discuss in rodmaking and fly fishing and alittle diversion now and again can be amusing. It is easy enough todelete If you know that a regular contributor usually deals in private chit chatoris perhaps self serving, then delete whatever he posts. Works great forme.Terry So what you're saying is that because there is a finite way of splitting, planing, gluing, scraping, binding etc and *unless* you are an uncouth, foul mouthed, grits/Vegimite eating Kiwi from HELL a little diversionary I agree. Don Burns has the right idea. If the subject line is altered upon a change of thread it's easy enough to delete if you're only interested in hard core rodbuilding stuff.Admitedly much of the latest has been deleteable but a lot of the best threads have begun that way, though I am truely sorry for starting the hell thread. Now for some genuine rod stuff.I glued a tip section using Shell Epon today as I used it to glue the scarfs and all the right people recomended I use the same glue to glue the splines to avoid heat related problems rather than use UF orResorcinol.I bind sections by hand and I found that because the glue dosn't become tacky for quite a while I was able to bind carefuly then straighten to satisfaction before hanging the section to cure. I very much doubt I'll need to do any heat straightening at all as there are no kinks or twists.Anybody having problems with straightening may like to try nodles construction and hand binding using Shell Epon. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Mar 4 08:25:45 1998 1997)) id862565BD.004ED1A4 ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 08:20:54 -0600 Subject: Hollow Built Rod Mechanics David, I'd be interested in your spreadsheet if at some point you get itdocumented. If nothing else, I'd like to see the theory behind it, assumingyou don't consider it proprietary. I'm interested from a rod mechanicsstandpoint. Contact me off-list if you prefer (with respect to the recentdiscussion about irrelevant material making it to the list, with which Iheartily agree). Best regards,Ed Estlow "David A. Hood" on 03/03/98 08:20:08 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Hollow Built rods Dean,I have a spreadsheet that has an input for hollowing factor and cancalculate the stress curve for you. I have not yet prepared sufficientdocumentation such that someone else could drive these equations, butif you would like to send me the information for your rod I will beglad to return a stress curve. Please include the taper (includingany varnish allowances) the line weight and length and the hollowingat each point.Davidhood@fc.hp.com from plipton@sunvalley.net Wed Mar 4 08:28:05 1998 forged)) 0700 (208.14.167.29) Subject: Bamboo Pie Splitters (Hida Tool) Ron: I have one of these splitters and they are easy to use. You can get itstarted by tapping the splitter point into a culm with a mallet.. Ittends to run easily until you get to a node, then it needs some force.The splitter has two handles, one on each side. By cutting a culm downto a six foot length, I could grab hold of both handles and tap thesplitter through a node by gently striking the culm on the floor. There were a couple of problems I had using a star splitter. On someculms the check split opens up quite a bit. When you push it through thesplitter, you will have an odd size strip. This is no big deal, justtake it into account. I bought a seven section splitter because oftenthe seventh section is the size of the check split so I end up with sixequal sections. Do you flame your bamboo? I do. I prefer to split a culm in half and usea torch. Now that it is split, the star cutter is no big help. Someculms have several splits in them. There may be leaf nodes, growersmarks or other blemishes. I let the bamboo tell me where it needs to besplit. Rarely is that where the star splitter has its fin. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208- 726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Mar 4 08:55:43 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Pie Splitters (Hida Tool) Have tried the splitter and like anything has it's good and bad points.Ifyou've ever seen the Winston video it's identical to what Lew Stoner cameupwith.It's a fast way of sectioning the culm.That's the plus.It does notfollowthe grain necessarily orgive you sections that are equal in size.If speed is the only criteria andyoudon't mind wasting a lot of bamboo,after all it really is cheap,it's O.K. Idon't use mine at all. George from bairdart@burgoyne.com Wed Mar 4 10:06:34 1998 Subject: list use To all list subscribers, I have been on the the list for six months and have managed three or four posts. I have been amazed at the high level of knowledge and the sharing of same that has taken place on this list. Sure there has been some B.S. that has taken place but more than that I have seen help where help is needed. I have seen pros helping novices for nothing more than the gratifcation of seeing to it that they have good imformation and avoid frustration. I have been in the Art Glass Restoration business for 26 yrs. In that time i have learned that some of the best ideas and techniques come from inpromtu conversations among proffessionals. I for one have learned some very good info on this list. I would hate to see most of you folkes leave the list, it would be a loss to us all. As for some of the goofey subjects that come up, levity is a good balance to a good life. Happy rod building and fly fishing to all of you. Thanks Bob Baird from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Mar 4 10:55:33 1998 Subject: Re Shell epon epoxy. In a message dated 3/4/98 2:08:33 PM, you wrote: Tony - If you take the rod out of the string in 12-24 hours, you will findthat the Epon is not 100% cured, and you can do a bit of cold straighteningifyou need to. You will also find it easy to remove the cord and get the glueoff the blank. I can see Bill Fink grinning now. He tried for 15 years to getme to use the stuff, and I would'nt listen. He was right, this is a greatglue from eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com Wed Mar 4 11:45:06 1998 11:36:30 gateus.meissner-wurst.com via smap (4.0a) with SMTP id AAA334 for ;Wed, 4 Mar 1998 11:52:06 -0600 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00004F55; Wed, 4 Mar 9812:47:10-0600 Subject: Shell Epon Ratio Question Based on recent rave reviews, I've requested samples of Shell Epon 828 resin and 3140 Hardener. The supplier (Stephenson) tells me to use a 2:1 ratio, by weight, of resin to curing agent. They also told me that there's a wide range of ratios that are acceptable, including 1:1. anyone have a "by volume" ratio for this stuff? Thanks in advance,Eck from dhaftel@att.com Wed Mar 4 12:18:37 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 13:19:01-0500 Subject: RE: Bamboo Pie Splitters (Hida Tool) 4.0.995.52 Phil, You touched on an interesting topic... Flamed cane. Could you pleaseexpand on that a bit? For example, how do you keep that under control?Is it a "feel" kind of thing? Or have you experimented with time,distance from the torch (plain old propane?), etc.? Also, do you end uphaving to heat treat your sections after you've flamed the culm? I think I would like to try flaming my cane, but I'm basically afraid(chicken!) of ruining what little bamboo I have, and would welcome your Thanx, Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Philip Lipton [SMTP:plipton@sunvalley.net]Sent: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 9:28 AM Subject: Bamboo Pie Splitters (Hida Tool) Ron: I have one of these splitters and they are easy to use. You can get itstarted by tapping the splitter point into a culm with a mallet.. Ittends to run easily until you get to a node, then it needs some force.The splitter has two handles, one on each side. By cutting a culm downto a six foot length, I could grab hold of both handles and tap thesplitter through a node by gently striking the culm on the floor. There were a couple of problems I had using a star splitter. On someculms the check split opens up quite a bit. When you push it through thesplitter, you will have an odd size strip. This is no big deal, justtake it into account. I bought a seven section splitter because oftenthe seventh section is the size of the check split so I end up with sixequal sections. Do you flame your bamboo? I do. I prefer to split a culm in half and usea torch. Now that it is split, the star cutter is no big help. Someculms have several splits in them. There may be leaf nodes, growersmarks or other blemishes. I let the bamboo tell me where it needs to besplit. Rarely is that where the star splitter has its fin. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208- 726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 4 12:24:06 1998 Subject: Re: Hollow Built Rod Mechanics Ed, Unless the spread sheet mechanics are proprietary some of us on thelistmay be interested in the math, etc. of hollow building stresses so I, foronewould like to see it on list. Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 4 12:26:34 1998 Subject: Re: Re: test Chris,I think if we take the time to converse off list on non cane topics thebandwidth would narrow cosiderably. I know I've been guilty at times,morefromlaziness-just hitting "reply" rather than composing a new letter. In anycaseunless it gets a lot worse I'll stick around.Regards,Hank. from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Mar 4 12:50:38 1998 1997)) id862565BD.00671138 ; Wed, 4 Mar 1998 12:45:46 -0600 Subject: Re: Hollow Built Rod Mechanics Hank and all, I imagine several people would be interested. I'm imagining (pardon mypresumptuousness, David) a downloadable template similar to the HEXRODLotus 123/Excel template on Jerry's website. Do-able? Best regards,Ed Estlow FISHWOOL on 03/04/98 12:23:12 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Hollow Built Rod Mechanics Ed,Unless the spread sheet mechanics are proprietary some of us on thelistmay be interested in the math, etc. of hollow building stresses so I, foronewould like to see it on list.Regards,Hank. from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Wed Mar 4 13:14:58 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Wed, 4 Mar 1998 14:13:45 -0500 Subject: Re: Hollow Built Rod Mechanics FISHWOOL wrote: Ed,Unless the spread sheet mechanics are proprietary some of us on thelistmay be interested in the math, etc. of hollow building stresses so I, foronewould like to see it on list.Regards,Hank. As would I.. But I certainly understand the work involved and canapprecite the desire to keep it proprietary if they exist. I for one don't think the list is overly chatty. Many times these chatsresult in something intersting. We have had a couple of wild threadslately, but for the most part the list seems to stay on topic. Far moreso than any other list I know. The information exchanged here isexcellent and I have learned a great deal from Rodmakers. If anything,this list has reinforced FF and rodmaking as a life long persuit becauseof the people associated with it. from Fishstink@aol.com Wed Mar 4 14:41:40 1998 Subject: Re: test To everyone,On the topic of "chit-chat", being knew to the list and not aware of pastproblems, I don't think that there is a chat problem. I haven't been involvedlong making rods, so problems that I run into must surely have beencoveredmany times in the past by the list. I recently had a problem getting brushstrokes out after varnishing. I received a lot of really good suggestionsfroma LOT of people. I'm sure this is a topic that has been covered many times,and to someone who has been making rods for 15 to20 years it probablyseemedlike chit-chat to them, but to me it was information I needed right now.Myguess is, there will always be a lot of repetitive information on the list.There will always be someone new to the craft to ask these questions and,hopefully, there will always be someone on the list who will take the timetorespond. But if my only source of info is to be Garrison's book, I willobviously be missing out on more modern, effective techniques, and thehumancontact that makes this work fun.$.02Mike Shay from anglport@con2.com Wed Mar 4 14:49:39 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA01919 for Subject: Re: Non Rodmaker Content (Was: test) All,I've probably been on this list as short a time as anyone and I wasbeginning to wonder about the "wild" threads. I didn't join the ff@ listbecause a friend who belonged told me in the same breath how great itwasand that he was receiving 90 (!) messages a day! So far, this group hasbeenWAY more helpful than problematic. I certainly hope that the "Masters"willnot even consider dropping out and the "just learning" fellows willcontinueto post questions and "why-nots". I learned about things I had neverconsidered as problems OR solutions from looking at both Qs and As. Justthegive and take is probably responsible for some new concepts beingformulatedand tried by someone or other. I have seen solutions to problems which Ihave mulled over, literally, for years! I have also seen some ideas whichhave prompted me to take a new tack or modification on somebody else'scontribution. Certainly it would be beneficial to better label our contributionsbut I've noticed that often the main idea of an e-mail is not the mostinteresting part of the thing for me! The asides are sometimes the bestpart! It took me awhile to decide whether to thank people on line for theirhelp or just not return anything. I finally decided to use their homeaddresses to avoid the whole server. It also never occurred to me to startanew thread so I've been guilty of straying quite a ways off topic.Since we all seem to be people of good intention, it would probablybe enough (and very helpful to newcomers) to put up a reminder every fewweeks (clearly marked) so that people who are unaware (or who haveforgotten) can find out how things are supposed to work.Comments? (And forgive me if THIS is too wordy)Art At 09:11 PM 3/3/98 -0800, you wrote:Terry wrote: I was on the ff list a couple of years ago and found that a group of oldscrotums thought that they ran the list and got very annoyed if youmanagedto get a long thread going . They would only reply to each others postingsand would constantly congratulate each other for being so smart. Terry ******************************************************************** Thanks for masking me laugh but sometimes the truth hurts....... ex FF@ Ken Holder from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Mar 4 15:19:52 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA10587 for Subject: Bandwith I have always wondered about and been iritated by personal messages onthelistserver. For example:Sam, your clums are ready. Come and pick them up next week. Brief as themessage is, I must open it because it contains a Subject line such as: Re:Varnishing by hand We all must have e- mail, so why not use it for thissortof stuff. Regards, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Mar 4 16:35:04 1998 Subject: RE:Bandwith - NO email address RO>I have always wondered about and been iritated by personal messageson theRO>listserver. For example:RO>Sam, your clums are ready. Come and pick them up next week. Brief astheRO>message is, I must open it because it contains a Subject line such as:Re:RO>Varnishing by hand We all must have e- mail, so why not use it for thissortRO>of stuff. RO>Regards, RO>Doug EastonRO>Tonawanda, NYRO>> > > Doug, My ISP's software doesn't show both the display of the poster's emailaddress and the list-serv's "rodmaker......" I get the email address only if it comes directly from a poster. Sosometimes I can't reply off-list unless the person includes his emailaddress in his subscript! Just like trying to reply to this post could only be done on-list. I'd be willing to bet this is a reason for many of the "Sam, your clumsare ready" posts. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.comcanerods@aol.com from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Mar 4 16:57:34 1998 Subject: Re: Bandwith - chat room A year or so ago some listmembers met at a ffm chatroom at 10:00 am,saturday mornings. Does this still happen? Could the AOL instantmessenger serve to satisfy our chattier nature while leaving the list Brian from jourdoktorn@pilot.stjarntv.se Wed Mar 4 17:59:41 1998 with ESMTP id AAA10519 for ;Thu, 5 Mar 1998 00:59:45 +0100 Subject: Re: McKenzie lines Did find McKenzie homepage and found his lines but could not find a linenamed"Bamboo line". What line is that?Jan, Sweden Tom wrote: Russ Peak's Line Dressing is also distributed by McKenzie and works verywell on the Bamboo line. I didn't realize that the San Juan stayed thatcoldyear round. Best of luck.Tom----------From: john channer Subject: McKenzie linesDate: Tue, 03 Mar 1998 16:53:59 Len and Tom;One last question and then I promise to drop the subject, what do yourecomendtreating it with. Thanks again.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Mar 4 18:18:50 1998 Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:18:43 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Shell Epon Ratio Question On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, eric.koehler wrote: Based on recent rave reviews, I've requested samples of Shell Epon828 resin and 3140 Hardener. The supplier (Stephenson) tells me to use a 2:1 ratio, by weight, of resin to curing agent. They also told me that there's a wide range of ratios that are acceptable, including 1:1. anyone have a "by volume" ratio for this stuff? Thanks in advance,Eck There seems to be a little laditude in the ratio but not as much as in some other epoxies around. While testing on scarfs I found it failed completely unless you mix fairly close the the correct ratio.I'm using 1: 0.66 ratio by volume which is close to the 2:1 you mention.I haven't tried 1:1. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Mar 4 18:46:05 1998 Thu, 5 Mar 1998 08:45:53 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Re Shell epon epoxy. On Wed, 4 Mar 1998, TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 3/4/98 2:08:33 PM, you wrote: to do any heat straightening at all as there are no kinks or twists.>> Tony - If you take the rod out of the string in 12-24 hours, you will findthat the Epon is not 100% cured, and you can do a bit of coldstraightening ifyou need to. You will also find it easy to remove the cord and get the glueoff the blank. I can see Bill Fink grinning now. He tried for 15 years togetme to use the stuff, and I would'nt listen. He was right, this is a greatglue John Zimny suggested I do that when he first gave me the drum on what to get and where to try looking for it. You and John are correct as the binding cord just unzips right off the section as easily as if I was using UF or Resorcinol. Assuming this glue works in the field and I have no doubt it does and using Chris Bogarts sugestion that I use vinegar to clean up which also works to the extent I could clean the brush I used to apply the glue which suprised me, I can't see any problems with this glue.My main objection to trying it for gluing splines was the mess and the not an issue.Thanks guys. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Mar 4 19:23:17 1998 (205.236.249.214) Subject: Re: Bandwith Douglas P. Easton wrote: I have always wondered about and been iritated by personal messages onthelistserver. For example:Sam, your clums are ready. Come and pick them up next week. Brief asthemessage is, I must open it because it contains a Subject line such as:Re:Varnishing by hand We all must have e- mail, so why not use it for thissortof stuff. Regards, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY surely no worse than 'AMEN'Terry from JDemp1@aol.com Wed Mar 4 19:26:40 1998 Subject: Re: best planing forms? Mark I also like your style, hang in there and most of all have fun !!!!Jed from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Mar 4 20:13:43 1998 (205.236.248.252) Subject: life after list I would like to suggest that members that have been threatening to quitthe list probably need the break and should quit for a while and buildsome rods.I personally cannot take more than two months in one whack and some ofyou guys have been on here for as long as three years.It was the same thing on the FF, guys wanted to get out yet felt thatthey were locked in somehow. They ended up blaming newbies for spoilingthe list and they were to quit.It is not a weakness to take a break and the list will go on. Memberswith just as much knowledge can step in to fill the void.This list or any list for that matter is not real life and should not betreated as such.Terry from jfoster@gte.net Wed Mar 4 21:05:11 1998 Subject: [Fwd: (Kein Bezug)] 59AE70CB48DBF0D2273DFBEB" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 59AE70CB48DBF0D2273DFBEB Can anyone assist this guy? Jerry --------------59AE70CB48DBF0D2273DFBEB (Intermail v3.1 117 234) with ESMTP Subject: (Kein Bezug) Dear Mr. Foster In the Book from C.M.Kreider i`ve found an article from HertersSteel Planing forms - one was made for five Strip-, the otherone for six strip rods. On the Pitcures in Kreiders Book the formshas four parallel grooves.In the foreword, Jim Schaaf said that Herter is no more in Business.Have you any Idee or Tip, where i can find a planing form like these,mabye an original? Thanks and best regards Sincerly Stefan GrauE-Mail: gespliesst@bluewin.ch (private)grau@BuchLang.com (office) --------------59AE70CB48DBF0D2273DFBEB-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Mar 4 21:14:11 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 4Mar 1998 22:15:15 -0500 Subject: Re: Shell Epon Ratio Question I have always (three rods) mixed it 1:1 . Maybe I have been doing it wrong. Seemed to cure though in two of the cases. Chris? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from richjez@enteract.com Wed Mar 4 22:06:33 1998 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: test Just wait until there are a few warm days. Everyone will go fishing andtheposts will become "test". List members will be trying to see if they havebeen dropped from the list the traffic will be so low. That happened lastsummer.Rich Jezioro At 01:23 PM 3/4/98 EST, you wrote:Chris,I think if we take the time to converse off list on non cane topics thebandwidth would narrow cosiderably. I know I've been guilty attimes,morefromlaziness-just hitting "reply" rather than composing a new letter. In anycaseunless it gets a lot worse I'll stick around.Regards,Hank. *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| ________________________________________________|| /\/ \ > > > from Leessinker@aol.com Wed Mar 4 22:08:13 1998 Subject: Mckenzie/silk Noticed all the comment on Mckenzie's new Bamboo Line.Does anyone know how the diameters of the respective lines compare tothat ofthe same weight silk lines?I have an old custom rod with the original agite stripper guide, the modernlines being larger in diameter prevents shooting line as well as it wouldwithsilk.Has anyone seen the prices of the new silk from England (which btw iswherethe Mckenzie Bamboo line originates)? Dewayne from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 5 00:24:10 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA28191 Subject: Re: [Fwd: (Kein Bezug)] Possibly. I got mine from Len Codella (a rare one that has 6 strip on oneside and 5 strip on the other).Len told me that he periodically gets one or the other in stock and sellsit but mine is the only combo onehe has seen in 20+ years (mine is NOT for sale). You might check with LenCodella, Dick Spurr, Bob Corsetti,Martin Keane, and Carmine Lisella and see if any of them have one...maybethey'll even keep an eye out might try posting an ad in someMinnesota newspapers...also watch E-Bay website, Herter's stuff has beenpopping up on a regular basis(fly tying vises, catalogs, St. Albans bamboo fly rods, lures, books,etc.).Good luck and you will probably have to be patient. George W. Bourke ----------From: Jerry Foster Subject: [Fwd: (Kein Bezug)]Date: Wednesday, March 04, 1998 6:04 PM Can anyone assist this guy? Jerry from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Mar 5 07:50:14 1998 Subject: Re: Shell Epon Ratio Question In a message dated 3/4/98 5:49:54 PM, you wrote: Eric- 50-50 by volume will give you a slow, reliable cure. Tony - Use a toothbrush to apply the stuff, and discard it when you aredone.The work will go faster. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Mar 5 09:20:36 1998 Thu, 5 Mar 1998 23:20:26 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Shell Epon Ratio Question On Thu, 5 Mar 1998, TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 3/4/98 5:49:54 PM, you wrote: anyone have a "by volume" ratio for this stuff? >> Eric- 50-50 by volume will give you a slow, reliable cure. Tony - Use a toothbrush to apply the stuff, and discard it when you aredone.The work will go faster. That sounds a good idea. A brush dosn't realy carry enough to be useful. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Thu Mar 5 12:30:50 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: Filtering UF glue and Nodeless Hi All! Did anybody try to "filter" an UF glue?I was reading GLUE UPDATE 2 by John Zimny on the last TPF and he notedthe major part (99%) of UF glue is Walnut flour. He also says he doesn'tuse walnut flour in his formulation. Then I started to think in eliminating the walnut that has gap filling properties. I made someexperiences "filtering" the mixed glue throuth an old piece of cottonT-shirt and got a tinner glue - in color and consistency - actually it takes no more than 1 minute for this operation. After gluing the splices and let it dry for 24h it worked just fine. I don't know if there are some side efects, but the solid part is very brittle and can be broke Sergio from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Mar 5 13:45:46 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id TAA18130 for; Thu, 5 Mar 1998 19:48:36 GMT Subject: Re:Brushmarks ----------From: Fishstink Subject: Re: testDate: 04 March 1998 20:27 To everyone,On the topic of "chit-chat", being knew to the list and not aware of pastproblems, I don't think that there is a chat problem. I haven't beeninvolvedlong making rods, so problems that I run into must surely have beencoveredmany times in the past by the list. I recently had a problem gettingbrushstrokes out after varnishing. I received a lot of really good suggestionsfroma LOT of people. I'm sure this is a topic that has been covered manytimes,and to someone who has been making rods for 15 to20 years it probablyseemedlike chit-chat to them, but to me it was information I needed right now.Myguess is, there will always be a lot of repetitive information on thelist.There will always be someone new to the craft to ask these questionsand,hopefully, there will always be someone on the list who will take thetime torespond. But if my only source of info is to be Garrison's book, I willobviously be missing out on more modern, effective techniques, and thehumancontact that makes this work fun.$.02Mike Shay Several times on the list, I've mentioned the fact that I 'brush ' onvarnish with USA made Epifanes foam brushes. No-one seems to havepicked upon this, or replied that they too are using them. If you're a brusher, thenI would recommend that you try these things. They have improved mybrushedfinish tremendously. Now, I promise not to mention them again. John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Mar 5 13:57:56 1998 Subject: Copy of an Obit. - copied from FF@ from CALucker@aol.com Thu Mar 5 14:20:02 1998 Subject: Re: small agate stripper/modern line Don't worry about your small agate stripper from CALucker@aol.com Thu Mar 5 14:28:00 1998 Subject: Re: small agate stripper/modern lines Don't worry about the efficacy of the old agate stripper with modern sizedflylines. Sure, silk shoots better through those old small agates, however, Imake steelhead casts with SA floaters with my EC Powells without anyshootingproblems. EC's have tiny agate strippers. BTW, the only silk lines I have are four and five weights (custom Phoenixlines and an old Transpar). When I want the feel of silk for steelhead, Iuseone of those amber Orvis intermediates. They are skinny and don't mindbeingstepped on as much as a silk line. Chris Lucker from thramer@presys.com Thu Mar 5 15:04:06 1998 Subject: Tapers I would like to discuss taper types with the other members of the group.I build three types of tapers, the Px- a semi para derived fromGranger(just look at the taper archives of the 4wt and the WM) which isstill my favorite to use. A bit slower than alot of the current workbeing done. Others in the taper archives who like that style of rodwould appear to be Cris Bogart in the Shenandoah Supreme models and thePayne 200. Another style that accounts for the majority of the commercial rodsthat I sell is the Dx series. It has been described as a "Catskill Dry"type of taper, progressively loading from the tip to the butt. Easy tocast, readily can be sped up or slowed down. It seems to be the besttype of taper to transition from graphite to bamboo. I seem to provide alot of rods to people transitioning which may account for the popularityof the taper style.The last type is the true Para rods (designated "para" on the rod,quite a bit of imagination , no?). My para rods are characterized by theflex into the cork. I don't like to sell these rods "over the counter"as they are a specialized taper. They require extremely precise timingand can be easily damaged due to the extremely high stresses in thecane. The y come back with blown up butts and hook digs in the tips.If anyone has an interest in discussing my favorite subject of taperdesign, hot dog! I would be quite happy to provide one of my tapers tosuit another listmembers interest.Happy tapering,A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from ishikawa@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Thu Mar 5 15:56:29 1998 Subject: Filtering UF glue and Nodeless Hi All! Did anybody try to "filter" an UF glue?I was reading GLUE UPDATE 2 by John Zimny on the last TPF and he notedthe major part (99%) of UF glue is Walnut flour. He also says he doesn'tuse walnut flour in his formulation. Then I started to think in eliminating the walnut that has gap filling properties. I made someexperiences "filtering" the mixed glue throuth an old piece of cottonT-shirt and got a tinner glue - in color and consistency - actually it takes no more than 1 minute for this operation. After gluing the splices and let it dry for 24h it worked just fine. I don't know if there are some side efects, but the solid part is very brittle and can be broke Sergio from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Mar 5 17:53:36 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers I made an experimental taper about a year ago ona short (6'3") 3wt. I was trying to find out if a tapercould affect the tightness of the loop in the flyline.I moved the area of highest stress (designing witha stress curve) the closest to the tip that I could.With the set screws being 5 inches apart, 6 inches from the tip was the closest due to the way thestresses are calculated. Real or not I don't know. It seemed to have worked. The rod casts a tightloop no matter what I do. I have to really try to casta wide loop with this rod. One problem - I cannotrollcast with it. When I try to roll cast, I get somereally severe waves in the flyline right by the tip. Darryl Hayashida from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Mar 5 18:35:17 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA04476 for Subject: Pocono Gathering To the ListPer Bob Reid the Pocono Gathering is shaping up for the weekend of Sept12-13. Bob is hoping to join us on the list soon. Would be nice. Bill from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Mar 5 18:46:13 1998 Fri, 6 Mar 1998 08:46:06 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Filtering UF glue and Nodeless On Thu, 5 Mar 1998 ishikawa@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br wrote: Hi All! Did anybody try to "filter" an UF glue?I was reading GLUE UPDATE 2 by John Zimny on the last TPF and he notedthe major part (99%) of UF glue is Walnut flour. He also says he doesn'tuse walnut flour in his formulation. Then I started to think in eliminating the walnut that has gap filling properties. I made someexperiences "filtering" the mixed glue throuth an old piece of cottonT-shirt and got a tinner glue - in color and consistency - actually it takes no more than 1 minute for this operation. After gluing the splices and let it dry for 24h it worked just fine. I don't know if there are some side efects, but the solid part is very brittle and can be broke Sergio Sergio,have you tried getting hold of some liquid UF? Borden make it and it's what I've been using until now when I'll prob favour epon. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from mcreek@sirus.com Thu Mar 5 19:02:02 1998 Subject: Tapers AJ (et. al)- As I've mentioned, I just finished my first rod after fussing withit for 15 months. Except for the guide wraps it came out way beyond mywildest hopes. (Being anal pays off sometimes.) It is a PH Young Para14 taper, and it casts sooo nicely. But for my next rod I want to buildsomething at the other end of the spectrum, and am thinking about aDickerson 8615 from the taper archives. Looking at the stress curves ofthe Para 14, The Force, and the 8615, I think they cover the 3 types ofrod you refered to in your earlier post. I'm wondering, however, what happens if I start adding andsubtracting wood in the butt section of these rod tapers. Can you speedup a para taper by stiffening the lower 1/3 of the rod? Where can youplay around with the dimensions of a taper to speed-up or slow down theaction, and how can you tell (without building the rod, if possible) ifyour alterations will work or not? Is there any rule of thumb fordimensional variations relative to the length of the rod (like a ratio)that is a good, safe amount to vary, or above which you're headed forheart-ache? My current plan is to build a fast, stiffer rod next, then amoderately fast rod, and then start playing with the tapers, but I'dlike to understand some of the theory first. (Plus I'm trying to writea question to get Hank and Chris fired-up.) I hope that this is something we can discuss without getting deepinto physics equations, 'cause I was out behind the dorm smoking weedwhen I should have been studying that stuff. Brian from thramer@presys.com Thu Mar 5 19:50:32 1998 0000 Subject: Tapers-rollcasting Hi Darryl,I have noticed that the more limber the butt of the rod the better therod rollcasts. IE a parabolic taper rollcasts very well and the rod asyou describe with a soft tip tends to let the roll collapse.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Thu Mar 5 19:58:10 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Tapers-modified Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: AJ (et. al)- As I've mentioned, I just finished my first rod after fussing withit for 15 months. Except for the guide wraps it came out way beyond mywildest hopes. (Being anal pays off sometimes.) It is a PH Young Para14 taper, and it casts sooo nicely. But for my next rod I want to buildsomething at the other end of the spectrum, and am thinking about aDickerson 8615 from the taper archives. Looking at the stress curves ofthe Para 14, The Force, and the 8615, I think they cover the 3 types ofrod you refered to in your earlier post. I'm wondering, however, what happens if I start adding andsubtracting wood in the butt section of these rod tapers. Can you speedup a para taper by stiffening the lower 1/3 of the rod? Where can youplay around with the dimensions of a taper to speed-up or slow down theaction, and how can you tell (without building the rod, if possible) ifyour alterations will work or not? Is there any rule of thumb fordimensional variations relative to the length of the rod (like a ratio)that is a good, safe amount to vary, or above which you're headed forheart-ache? My current plan is to build a fast, stiffer rod next, then amoderately fast rod, and then start playing with the tapers, but I'dlike to understand some of the theory first. (Plus I'm trying to writea question to get Hank and Chris fired-up.) I hope that this is something we can discuss without getting deepinto physics equations, 'cause I was out behind the dorm smoking weedwhen I should have been studying that stuff. BrianYou have to be very careful when adding wood to the butt of a para, inthe end you have a "stick". A Leonard 38H is OK. The best rocket fasttapers I have seen are from Terry Ackland. The best semi para would be aGranger 8' or (the best) 8 1/2 5wt. A 50Df is good too. Para rods ......To cast the vote with Young or Payne? The best of the Youngs wereunassailable but they tended to vary IMMENSLY, Payne was much moreconsistent.A.J.Thramer from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 5 20:36:49 1998 Subject: tapers Darryl;Or perhaps I should say Sir Darryl. I have an antique rod of unknownheritage that originally had hanging ring guides and straight tip tops onit that will roll cast farther than it will overhand cast. Of course thismay have more to do with my casting ability than the taper, but if you areinterested in the measurements, I will be happy to measure it and eitherpost them if any one else is interested orsend them to you direct. I couldalso put them into Frank Stetzer's web version of hexrod and post the i.d.Iam just beginning to get a grasp of tapers and stress curves and allcomments and threads are very helpful to me, thanks to all who contributeto these discussions!!> from rkovalak@bright.net Thu Mar 5 21:04:20 1998 sparticus.bright.net (8.8.7/8.8.7/FNG) with ESMTP id WAA04964; Thu, 5Mar 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Pie Splitters (Hida Tool) Thanks to all who responded to my call for advice. I can see that just likeother tools bought/built for this craft there will be a variety ofopinions. I thought at least in principle the idea of the pie splitter waslogical if not fool- proof_a purchase worthy of experimentation. Again,thanks to all. --Ron KovalakEmail: rkovalak@bright.net from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Mar 5 21:15:29 1998 Subject: Re: Pocono Gathering Bill,As a member of a family who has had a place on Pocono Lake since 1910I'minterested in the Pocono gathering-is it invitation only ?Regards,Hank. from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 5 21:16:46 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAC20171 Subject: Re: Tapers-modified A.J. How would you classify Pezon et Michel tapers? Can't remember if youtriedmy Fario Club at the casting pond in Portland a yeaar or so ago ornot....Gord mic'd the taper, but don't think he posted it.Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from DrBamboo@aol.com Thu Mar 5 21:16:48 1998 Subject: Re: Filtering UF glue and Nodeless If you are using URAQ 185,just get some ammonium Chloride,reagentgrade.It isthe active action that makes the resin "kick".1 gram AmCl to 10 ccwater.Allowto dissolve 10-15 minutes.This is enough for 100 grams resin.You willhave noblow upon your taper.50 grams of resin is more than enough for a rod.GEM from cphisey@neca.com Thu Mar 5 22:18:01 1998 Subject: Re: Pocono Gathering At 10:11 PM 3/5/98 EST, you wrote:Bill,As a member of a family who has had a place on Pocono Lake since 1910I'minterested in the Pocono gathering- is it invitation only ?Regards,Hank. Hank et all,The 4th annual Catskill Rodmakers Gathering will be held at the CatskillFlyFishing Center and Museum in Livingston Manor,NY on Sept. 12- 13th.It isopento all,more info on cost and registration will be available later.For infocall the Center at 914-439-4810.I talked to Robert Reid (GatheringGuru)lastweek and the dates are set.Charlie from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Mar 5 22:49:56 1998 Subject: Re:help with Torches Gentlemen,I'm considering upgrading from my hand held type torch to somethingalong thelines of the set up that Wayne describes in his book. My little torch putsoutbut I want to get more even toning of the cane along the lines of theLeonard/Hunt style.I've found three in the McMaster-Carr catalog which seem to fit the billand Ineed advice in deciding:A) 26,000 BTU's ranges from a 3" pencil point flame to a 12" wrap aroundflameand can solder 3"dia tubingB) 73,000 BTU's ranges from a 4" soft lapping flame to a 12" blast flameandcan soldera 6" dia copper tube.C) 183,000 BTU's produces a soft high capacity flame 12"-24" in length.Wayne mentions his torch putting out "about 150,000 BTU's, will 183Kfrickaseemy poor bamboo to death?Any of you guys still reading this have any suggestions as to which ofthese Iought to buy? Many thanks... Rob Hoffhines from WDHCJL@aol.com Thu Mar 5 23:27:32 1998 Subject: Bamboo Storage? Odd question but to the point...How should a culm that has been completlysplit in two be stored? Any different than a full culm with a drying split?thanks doug h from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Mar 5 23:27:33 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers A question about parabolic stress curves Payne vs Paul Young:How come the stress curves from the tapers in the archive essentially goopposite directions? Does the Payne para just forego the increase instress inthe tip, but what about the rise in the middle of the Payne while the Youngshows a valley?Boy, wouldn't it be great to get everybody on this list and a few cases ofbeer together for a summit on this topic!!! Rob Hoffhines PS I got a taper off a 6'6" 4wt Dunton a I refinished a while back. Thethingwould shoot line like a scalded dog...turns out it's a Young "ish" parabolic. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Mar 5 23:59:13 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers A.J.,Can you tell me what the heck Leonard was trying todo with that taper on the Rodmakers web page?That is the strangest stress curve I've seen.It's the only taper under Leonard in the taperarchives. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Mar 6 00:04:59 1998 Subject: Re: tapers In a message dated 3/5/98 6:41:58 PM Pacific Standard Time,channer@frontier.net writes: I have an antique rod of unknownheritage that originally had hanging ring guides and straight tip tops onit that will roll cast farther than it will overhand cast. I've got a rod that sounds just like that. I traded Tom Smithwick it farther than you can overhand cast. But I think it is a functionof the Calcutta cane and the flip ring guides, not the taper. Darryl Hayashida from plipton@sunvalley.net Fri Mar 6 00:42:30 1998 0700 (208.14.167.63) Subject: Flaming Cane Dennis: How to flame treat your cane has been an ongoing topic here. It got alot of discussion a while back and you might want to look at a post fromSir Daryl. He has a different approach. I do it exactly the way shown inWayne Cattanaugh's book. If you don't have his book, try and get it. Iread my copy so often it is dog eared. With all due respect to thesource, here is what Wayne sez.... The crucial element is the torch itself. The hardware store variety oftorch that screws onto a small bottle does not produce enough heat. Itwill ruin your culm with too much heat before the culm is darkened. Iswallowed hard, went to the local plumbing supply house and purchased atorch like the one in the book. Get one that uses propane rather thanacetylene. Split your culm in half so it will not roll off the sawhorses or whatever support you use. Start at the bottom with the torchand move it from left to right, up a notch, right to left and so on. Ikeep the torch tip just a few inches from the culm. It darkens theenamel layer immediately so keep the torch moving constantly. It is sortof like spraying paint in that I do not let the flame sit on a spot butkeep it moving past the edges. In a way, you are "painting" the color onthe cane. If there are blisters forming on the enamel, I am going tooslow and burning the power fibers just below the enamel. Don't do that! The charred look when you are through is a bit scary but it changes asyou work with it. How much you remove of the flamed enamel is thebuilder's choice. Some builders like very dark rods. I like to sandthrough the darkest part of the enamel ending up with dark and lighttones. The first time I did this was in one of Wayne's workshops. Ithelps to have someone there to hold your hand, so to speak. I hope thishelps. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208- 726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from ishikawa@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Fri Mar 6 06:03:07 1998 Subject: Re: Filtering UF glue and Nodeless DrBamboo and Tony,Thanks for the advices I just didn't want to throw my 5 lbs pail of Cascamite (Powdered Plastic Resin from Borden - just add water)I bougth I bought last year.Sergio from channer@frontier.net Fri Mar 6 06:50:27 1998 Subject: tapers Darryl;I wasn't able to cast this antique with the original guides, there wereonly 3 of them left on it, maybe it is the type of cane and the taper thatallow it to roll cast so well. It is also very light in color, so maybe itwasn't heat treated. I am going to waste some bandwidth and describe thisthing in hopes that you or someone else on the list might know what makeitis. It is a 9' 3 pc iwth a total of 7 guides. Wraps are red with black trimspaced about 1/4" away from the guide wraps.It has intermediatesthat go:b----b-r-b----b----b-r-b---- b----b-r(guide wrap),etc.Hardware ischromeplated with a wide cone winding check.Check and ferrules have incizedbandsof diagonal lines as does the full metal slide band reel seat. The grip isunusual in that it is celluloid lace(i rubbed it a little with steel wooland it smells of camphor).The fillerfor the grip is shaped so the windingcheck and the reel seat go over the ends of the lace. The grip is 5.25" from reel seat to winding check and the reel seat is 4.25". The cane workis only fair, appears to have a random node staggering and there are acouple almost next to each other. Also has a couple of pinched nodes thatweren't straightened correctly before planing(boy can I recognize those!!).This is a fun rod to fish once you get used to how it casts, you can let20"+ fish bounce against 7x tippet and not break them off, the rod is solimber it will almost fold up double against them. I hope someone has seensomething like this and recognizes it, I have asked several experiencedrestorers and dealers about it, but noone knows what it is. This rod wasmysecond re-finish and I learned patience doing it, there are a total of 137wraps on the 4 pieces of it.Sorry to waste so much space on what isprobably just an old piece of junk.One man's treasure,etc.John Channer from dhaftel@att.com Fri Mar 6 07:51:31 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 08:53:04-0500 Subject: RE: Flaming Cane 4.0.995.52 Phil, Thanks for the reply. I appreciate the knowledge and patience of allthe folks on this list, but I think a lot of my questions will beanswered when Wayne's book finally arrives. It's been a week since Iordered it, so it shouldn't be too much longer (I also ordered The Bestof the Planing Form). My Garrison Charmichael book is begining to looklike your desc. of Wayne's book! I think half the fun of this craft is gathering information and tools! Thanks again... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Philip Lipton [SMTP:plipton@sunvalley.net]Sent: Friday, March 06, 1998 1:42 AM Subject: Flaming Cane Dennis: How to flame treat your cane has been an ongoing topic here. It got alot of discussion a while back and you might want to look at a post fromSir Daryl. He has a different approach. I do it exactly the way shown inWayne Cattanaugh's book. If you don't have his book, try and get it. Iread my copy so often it is dog eared. With all due respect to thesource, here is what Wayne sez.... The crucial element is the torch itself. The hardware store variety oftorch that screws onto a small bottle does not produce enough heat. Itwill ruin your culm with too much heat before the culm is darkened. Iswallowed hard, went to the local plumbing supply house and purchased atorch like the one in the book. Get one that uses propane rather thanacetylene. Split your culm in half so it will not roll off the sawhorses or whatever support you use. Start at the bottom with the torchand move it from left to right, up a notch, right to left and so on. Ikeep the torch tip just a few inches from the culm. It darkens theenamel layer immediately so keep the torch moving constantly. It is sortof like spraying paint in that I do not let the flame sit on a spot butkeep it moving past the edges. In a way, you are "painting" the color onthe cane. If there are blisters forming on the enamel, I am going tooslow and burning the power fibers just below the enamel. Don't do that! The charred look when you are through is a bit scary but it changes asyou work with it. How much you remove of the flamed enamel is thebuilder's choice. Some builders like very dark rods. I like to sandthrough the darkest part of the enamel ending up with dark and lighttones. The first time I did this was in one of Wayne's workshops. Ithelps to have someone there to hold your hand, so to speak. I hope thishelps. Phil ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ PO Box 1003, Sun Valley, ID 83353208-726-9559, 208-622-8585 Fax 208- 726-0191~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Mar 6 08:32:13 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Bandwith - chat room At 17:56 04/03/98 -0500, Brian wrote:A year or so ago some listmembers met at a ffm chatroom at 10:00 am,saturday mornings. Does this still happen? Could the AOL instantmessenger serve to satisfy our chattier nature while leaving the list Brian Brian, Jonathan Clark and I started this after a phone conversation I had withhim. Seemed like it just kinda fizzled out - not enough participation.Suspect there was a lot of lurkers but few participated. Some graphiteboysdropped in for a while and it got interesting but on the whole, the chatdidn't serve the rodmakers group. The primary reason is one liners justdon't cut it in rodmaking. Most explanations/responses take a fair amountof thought and a lot of typing. The venue likely wasn't appropriate. Theguys @ VFS certainly were supportive. I would expect that they wouldentertain another effort if someone else wants to give it a shot. Hope this helps. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Mar 6 08:32:16 1998 0700 Subject: Perfection Tip Co. Hi all, Anyone got the corporate office addresses - address I used in Denver saidthey no longer were there. Any ideas. Gonna rip a strip of them for thepresently manufactured guides. Don from harry37@epix.net Fri Mar 6 10:33:04 1998 LAA00617 Subject: Re: Pocono Gathering Bill Fink wrote: To the ListPer Bob Reid the Pocono Gathering is shaping up for the weekend ofSept12-13. Bob is hoping to join us on the list soon. Would be nice. Bill Bill, I live in Conyngham--tell me about the Pocono gathering Greg from harry37@epix.net Fri Mar 6 10:37:13 1998 LAA04563 Subject: Re: Brushmarks Several times on the list, I've mentioned the fact that I 'brush ' onvarnish with USA made Epifanes foam brushes. No-one seems to havepicked upon this, or replied that they too are using them. If you're a brusher, thenI would recommend that you try these things. They have improved mybrushedfinish tremendously. Now, I promise not to mention them again. John Cooper (England) John, When I have used Foam brushes in the past, they have produced almost a"froth" in the varnish, and they seem to eventually self-destruct beforeI am done. I don't know the manufacturer, but the experience soured meso much on the thought of using them that I quit. Is the brand thesecret? Greg from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Mar 6 11:09:30 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Pocono Gathering / Catskills I haven't heard of the Pocono gathering, but the Catskills Gathering was recommended to me recently. I just called the Center/Museum and theytold me they would give me more details when they were available. When I getthem I can post them here. In the mean time, does anyone have any info ( from past experience) onwhat to expect? Has anyone already decided to go this year? It sounds likesomething that would be fun to attend (as well as a great learning experience). Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Pocono Gathering Author: at tcpgate At 10:11 PM 3/5/98 EST, you wrote:Bill,As a member of a family who has had a place on Pocono Lake since 1910I'minterested in the Pocono gathering- is it invitation only ?Regards,Hank. Hank et all,The 4th annual Catskill Rodmakers Gathering will be held at the CatskillFlyFishing Center and Museum in Livingston Manor,NY on Sept. 12- 13th.It isopento all,more info on cost and registration will be available later.For infocall the Center at 914-439-4810.I talked to Robert Reid (GatheringGuru)lastweek and the dates are set.Charlie from ghinde@inconnect.com Fri Mar 6 11:24:54 1998 beforged)) 0000 Subject: Re: Perfection Tip Co. Don: If you are going to use manufactured guides I suggest using Hopkins&Holloway wire snake guides. They can be bought in chrome,bronze,titaniumnitride, or a black finish called DLC (diamond like carbide). The guidefeet are thinner than those found on antique rods, but I believe that H&His making the best guidestoday. The one down side is that they are expensive,especially if you arebuying them at retail price. You can also get them in British Pattern(right to left twist). I used to use Prefection guides but changed, not only because theirfinshwent south, but also because too many of their guides were no longerstraight. George Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Don Andersen Subject: Perfection Tip Co.Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 12:58 AM Hi all, Anyone got the corporate office addresses - address I used in Denversaidthey no longer were there. Any ideas. Gonna rip a strip of them for thepresently manufactured guides. Don from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Mar 6 11:37:38 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id LAA12827 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id LAA05051 for ; Fri, 6 Mar1998 11:37:35 Subject: Re: tapers added a couple features to my web hexrod. Most important, it nowallows 2 rods to be compared, giving tables and/or graphs of the stress curves and dimension side-by-side. It also takes metric or irregular spacings and subtracts varnish thickness. Sorry, no features http://www.uwm.edu/~stetzer/hexrod.html I'd like to echo John Channer's thanks to the experienced buildersand cane casters for shedding light on the topic of tapers. This hascome up several times in the list's history, and each time I understand a little more. Newcomers will want to check the archives for good info.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Mar 6 13:00:02 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Perfection Tip Co. At 10:18 06/03/98 -0700, George wrote:Don: If you are going to use manufactured guides I suggest usingHopkins&Holloway wire snake guides. They can be bought in chrome,bronze,titaniumnitride, or a black finish called DLC (diamond like carbide). The guidefeet are thinner than those found on antique rods, but I believe that H&His making the best guidestoday. The one down side is that they are expensive,especially if you arebuying them at retail price. You can also get them in British Pattern(right to left twist). I used to use Prefection guides but changed, not only because theirfinshwent south, but also because too many of their guides were no longerstraight. George Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com George, Got about 1000 Perfection guides in stock now and am out of size #2snakes.The ones I've been using were fairly good and lasted well. Ordered another100 or so of # 2's to finish this winter work and found the quality poor.Want at least the quality I've come to expect from Perfection. I want touse up the last of the guides I've got prior to ordering from anothermanufacturer.Am looking for a UK supplier for the H & H guides. Can get them intoCanadasomewhat cheaper than paying the customs duties from the US. Have usedthembefore - the jury is still out on how long they last. Don from frankc@webspan.net Fri Mar 6 13:50:24 1998 Subject: Re: Perfection Tip Co. george hinde wrote: Don: If you are going to use manufactured guides I suggest usingHopkins&Holloway wire snake guides. GeorgeCan you give us any info on where to get H&H guides. Frank from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Mar 6 14:08:01 1998 8.7/8.7) idPAA19502 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:05:35 - Subject: Re: Perfection Tip Co. Frank,Angler's Workshop has the Hopkins & Holloway guides and, IMO, very goodguides (nice chrome, tapered feet, etc.) Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 6 14:37:57 1998 0000 Subject: Tapers- Parabolic In answer to a question from Nodewarrior,The deeper the valley in the stress curve the more parabolic the rod,it shifts the action more and more into the butt of the rod. It alsomakes the timing more critical. The Young is more parabolic in actionthan the Payne. So it is more difficult to time but it can also rewardthe diligent with more performance for a given weight of cane. The otherthing to remember is that true para rods feel "topheavy" as they carrymore cane in the tip. If you slim down the taper in the tip the buttwill overpower the tip and cause BIG waves in the line that will eat upthe power in the cast.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 6 14:45:22 1998 0000 Subject: Leonard Taper Hi Darryl,Leonard tapers were either appropriated from another manufacturer ordesigned empirically.ie. Trial and error. It tends to give you somewacky looking stress curves as you try to compensate for a problen inthe taper design in one place when you should have been working on theproblem area instead of covering up the problem. Anther reason that Ibelieve that current rods are superior to the vast majority of factoryrods of days past.A.J. Tharamerthramer@presys.com PS I have been trying to change the header on the reply to fit eachquestion, hopefully to avoid "thread confusion". from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Mar 6 15:18:48 1998 Subject: H&H Guides I think Anglers Workshop carries them. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Frank Caruso Subject: Re: Perfection Tip Co.Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 11:52 AM george hinde wrote: Don: If you are going to use manufactured guides I suggest usingHopkins&Holloway wire snake guides. GeorgeCan you give us any info on where to get H&H guides. Frank from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Mar 6 15:46:48 1998 (205.236.249.64) Subject: If you must flame I do not flame my bamboo, but if you really must, why flame the wholeculm and end up dumping most of it?There is a portable butane paint stripper on the market made byBernzomatic. It has a turbo nozzle set at the bottom of a tube. Itsupplies enough heat to rapidly flame rough strips without reducing themto charcoal. You do not touch the flame directly, it is really hot, hotgases that hit the cane.A neat piece of gear, comes with electronic ignitor and a belt clip tosatisfy all you cowboys out there,Terry from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Mar 6 16:34:47 1998 Subject: Thread confusion, was Re: Leonard Taper In a message dated 98-03-06 15:49:09 EST, you write: Thanks, AJ. I will endeavor to follow suit.Davy from eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com Fri Mar 6 17:25:00 1998 17:16:35 gateus.meissner-wurst.com via smap (4.0a) with SMTP id AAA182; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 17:26:30 -0600 (IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 00005063; Fri, 6 Mar 9818:27:06- 0600 Subject: Re: If you must flame --IMA.Boundary.624032988 I have one of these strippers left over from a restoration project. I have yet to put it to the cane. I'm gonna try a little flaming with it sometime soon... if anyone is interested, I'll post my observations (on or off list, BTW, depending on the feedback) A neat piece of gear, comes with electronic ignitor and a belt clip to satisfy all you cowboys out there, Being a Texan, I really appreciate the "holster" too! Eck eric.koehler@meissner-wurst.com ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: If you must flameAuthor: Terence Ackland at SMTP_Gateway I do not flame my bamboo, but if you really must, why flame the whole culm and end up dumping most of it?There is a portable butane paint stripper on the market made by Bernzomatic. It has a turbo nozzle set at the bottom of a tube. It supplies enough heat to rapidly flame rough strips without reducing them to charcoal. You do not touch the flame directly, it is really hot, hot gases that hit the cane. Terry--IMA.Boundary.624032988 headers" ccgate.us.meissner-wurst.com with SMTP(IMA Internet Exchange 2.1 Enterprise) id 0000505A; Fri, 6 Mar 9816:58:12-0600 with ESMTP id AAA212 for ;Fri, 6 Mar 1998 15:57:33 -0600 15:46:35 wurst.com viasmap (4.0a) (205.236.249.64) Subject: If you must flame --IMA.Boundary.624032988-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Mar 6 17:43:35 1998 Subject: Is there an Angler's '98 catalog? All, I've been receiving all the new '98 catalogs - but no Angler's Workshopcatalog. Did I miss out or isn't it out yet? Don Burns from rclarke@eou.edu Fri Mar 6 17:52:11 1998 Subject: Re to Don: Is there an Angler's '98 catalog? Don, I have not received mine either, but I am still waiting on the bamboomagazine, so what the heck. Robert Clarke----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Is there an Angler's '98 catalog?Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 1:42 PM All, I've been receiving all the new '98 catalogs - but no Angler's Workshopcatalog. Did I miss out or isn't it out yet? Don Burns from jfoster@gte.net Fri Mar 6 17:53:33 1998 Subject: question AJ Great thread, by the way, did you receive my e-mail, off the list, hard to decipher your returnaddr. sorry about the bandwidth, it does have to do with the list,sort of Jerry from fiveside@net-gate.com Fri Mar 6 18:20:04 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA11946 for Subject: CORRECTION To the List,The date is right but I got the wrong mountains. The Sept 12- 13gatheringwill be in the Catskills. Charles Hisey has it right. I flunk geography.Sorry for the goof. Bill from jfoster@gte.net Fri Mar 6 18:47:32 1998 Subject: History Gang When I first took ? over the archives Bruce Conners negetoried the chatroom thing based on the the concern that important topics could bediscussed and would never appear on the listproc. I agree. I haverecently been in contact with to Hotline people about the ability oftheir server software to capture text. If I get my (our) own IP addressyou guys could download the client. freebie, and chat away, the currentquestion to them is, can I make it a private net (sub-net). This wouldlet us avoid the caos on the hotline tracker (DNS) net.Just a research project now, and maybe still not a good idea. Jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Mar 6 18:52:09 1998 Sat, 7 Mar 1998 08:51:58 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Filtering UF glue and Nodeless On Fri, 6 Mar 1998 ishikawa@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br wrote: DrBamboo and Tony,Thanks for the advices I just didn't want to throw my 5 lbs pail of Cascamite (Powdered Plastic Resin from Borden - just add water)I bougth I tried Cascomite powder when I first started with this nodeles idea for the scarfs and once for gluing the splines. I found it a little brittle sometimes tended to fail during the planing process. When used to glue the splines the section is a bit stiffer than if using Resorcinol but pot life is so short it's a sprint to get the binding done before the glue tacks up. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Fri Mar 6 18:52:13 1998 Subject: H&H All;Did I just get a bad batch of H&H guides or do they all look like the feethad been ground by blind people(no offense meant to the blind)? none ofthefeet were the same lenggth and mostr of them were burned and ground offatan angle, give me dull perfection guides any day.John Channer from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Mar 6 19:18:35 1998 Subject: Gillum Tapers Does anyone have any Gillum Tapers? Marty Keane describes them ashavingthe,"...finest push-button power & unmatched tapers. . . ." Looking forthe 8'3" or 8'6" 6/7 wts., but interested in seeing anything. Feel freeto reply off-list if you prefer.Thanks! Brian from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Mar 6 19:35:40 1998 8.7/8.7) idUAA23358 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 6 Mar 1998 20:33:13 - Subject: Re: Is there an Angler's '98 catalog? Don,Still using my '97 catalof from Angler's Workshop after emailing andsnail-mailin 'ema request for their '98.Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 6 19:48:33 1998 Subject: Re: question Jerry Foster wrote: AJ Great thread, by the way, did you receive my e-mail, off the list, hard to decipher your returnaddr. sorry about the bandwidth, it does have to do with the list,sort of JerryHi Jerry,Got the e mail, it apparently rattled around the mainframes a whilethough. Correct address is thramer@presys.com. Will DEFINATELY work onmy file forwarding skills first though.A.J. from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 6 19:48:41 1998 Subject: PM Paras In response to Mike , the PM para tapers(the ones who started it all)are much more similiar to Young than Payne. Who could forget a Farioclub? I have heard from the dealers in such things that the NW is a hotspot of activity for PM rods. It has also been comunicated that PM pararods do not stay around long. That popular with some truly atrocioushardware. Reminds me of Phillipson. Of course they don't stick around onthe dealer lists long either.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 6 19:50:40 1998 Subject: Re: Gillum Tapers Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Does anyone have any Gillum Tapers? Marty Keane describes them ashavingthe,"...finest push-button power & unmatched tapers. . . ." Looking forthe 8'3" or 8'6" 6/7 wts., but interested in seeing anything. Feel freeto reply off-list if you prefer.Thanks! Brian NOTHING against Gillum tapers, but you have to have the utmost respect A.J.Thramer from richjez@enteract.com Fri Mar 6 20:00:57 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re:help with Torches Rob, At Grayling last summer, Wayne had a different torch head that used aregualr propane bottle. It worked as well as the commercial head he hadpreviously used: the one that was in his book. I tried it and was impressed. According to the label on the torch'spackage, you can even braise with it. Of course, I went out and bought one upon my return from Grayrock.Currnetly, it is lost somewhere in my house. I wonder if anyone else on thelist remembers this torch. If not, I will try to find it. (Sometimes there is a transitory black holethat comes through my place; things fall into it and show up in anotheruniverse.) I do remember the torch was under $50 at Home Depo. I think it was aBenz- O-Matic. They have several high preformance torch heads. Rich Jezioro At 11:48 PM 3/5/98 EST, you wrote:Gentlemen,I'm considering upgrading from my hand held type torch to somethingalongthelines of the set up that Wayne describes in his book. My little torch putsoutbut I want to get more even toning of the cane along the lines of theLeonard/Hunt style.I've found three in the McMaster-Carr catalog which seem to fit the billand Ineed advice in deciding:A) 26,000 BTU's ranges from a 3" pencil point flame to a 12" wrap aroundflameand can solder 3"dia tubingB) 73,000 BTU's ranges from a 4" soft lapping flame to a 12" blast flameandcan soldera 6" dia copper tube.C) 183,000 BTU's produces a soft high capacity flame 12"-24" in length.Wayne mentions his torch putting out "about 150,000 BTU's, will 183Kfrickaseemy poor bamboo to death?Any of you guys still reading this have any suggestions as to which ofthese Iought to buy? Many thanks... Rob Hoffhines *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| ________________________________________________|| /\/ \ > > > from FarAndFine@aol.com Fri Mar 6 20:12:35 1998 Subject: Re: Is there an Angler's '98 catalog? In a message dated 3/6/98 6:46:29 PM Eastern Standard Time,flyfisher@cmix.comwrites: I just made an order from them last week - they told me the new catalogwouldbe out the end of the month. Al WoodardManchester NH from ghinde@inconnect.com Fri Mar 6 20:26:32 1998 0000 Subject: Re: H&H Guides Robert You are correct. Anglers Workshop does carry H&H guides.Anglers phone# (360)225-6359E-MAIL: info@anglersworkshop.comweb site http://www.anglersworkshop.com Don:It is Perfection's size #3 guides that were(are?) all askew. The last100 I bought only had about 10 that were usable. Most of the size#2,#1,and #1/0 were OK. GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: H&H GuidesDate: Friday, March 06, 1998 2:17 PM I think Anglers Workshop carries them. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Frank Caruso Subject: Re: Perfection Tip Co.Date: Friday, March 06, 1998 11:52 AM george hinde wrote: Don: If you are going to use manufactured guides I suggest usingHopkins&Holloway wire snake guides. GeorgeCan you give us any info on where to get H&H guides. Frank from ghinde@inconnect.com Fri Mar 6 20:52:02 1998 beforged)) 0000 Subject: Re: H&H John: That is the one bad side to H&H guides. The feet are indeed ground withway too much vigor (just like Pac Bay), and for cane a wide flat foot is adefinite plus. You still need to grind the feet to shorten the length andclean up the taper. For anyone new I might add that a little 600 gritsandpaper works great for removing any burrs.Its not that I'm a big fan of H&H its just that Perfection's guides arenot what they were 10 years ago.GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: john channer Subject: H&HDate: Friday, March 06, 1998 9:38 AM All;Did I just get a bad batch of H&H guides or do they all look like thefeethad been ground by blind people(no offense meant to the blind)? none ofthefeet were the same lenggth and mostr of them were burned and groundoffatan angle, give me dull perfection guides any day.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Mar 6 21:13:04 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Is there an Angler's '98 catalog? Thanks for the replies. dgb from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Mar 6 22:51:50 1998 Subject: Re: Gillum Tapers He is a bit of a poet, isn't he? from jfoster@gte.net Sat Mar 7 00:45:07 1998 Subject: Tapersches Hey Guys, Wake up out there!!!! One of the fine rodmakers in the world, AJ Thramer, asked if anyonewould him to share any of his tapers, and.... I for one would be happy to see anything you would like to share AJ, andthank you. regards jerry from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Mar 7 01:55:17 1998 Subject: Fred Hall Fishing Expo, Long Beach CA I've just got back from the Fred Hall Fishing Expo, andI'm still giddy. I went to help out the fishing club I recentlyjoined, the Long Beach Casting Club. Unknown to mea friend of mine in the club, who I made a rod for, broughthis rod. We get to the show, and he takes the rod out, and walksover to the casting pond. He hands it to Jamie Lyle, andasks him to try it out. Jamie Lyle proceeds to cast almostto the end of the 100 foot casting pond. He attracts a crowd with his casting prowess. Next person who wants to try it isSteve Rayjeff, who also casts to the end of the pond. The next person to try it is Lori Ann Murphy. I had so manyfamous people standing in line to cast my rod, I wasflabbergasted. Every one of them asked who the builderwas, and when they found out, came over to me andshook my hand, and complimented me on the rod. The taper was the 7ft. 4wt. Wayne Cattanach taper. area, drop by the Long Beach Convention Centertomorrow, Saturday, March 7.. After that casting demonstration, Mark Metcalf, the editor of the new bamboo flyrod magazine, asked me to bring my tools and give a splitting and planing demo at his booth. 11:00 am to whenever I get tired and go home. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Mar 7 02:48:24 1998 Sat, 7 Mar 1998 16:48:15 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fred Hall Fishing Expo, Long Beach CA On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, SalarFly wrote: We get to the show, and he takes the rod out, and walksover to the casting pond. He hands it to Jamie Lyle, andasks him to try it out. Jamie Lyle proceeds to cast almostto the end of the 100 foot casting pond. He attracts a crowd with his casting prowess. Next person who wants to try it isSteve Rayjeff, who also casts to the end of the pond. The next person to try it is Lori Ann Murphy. I had so manyfamous people standing in line to cast my rod, I wasflabbergasted. Every one of them asked who the builderwas, and when they found out, came over to me andshook my hand, and complimented me on the rod. The taper was the 7ft. 4wt. Wayne Cattanach taper. Darryl Hayashida Well done. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 7 04:37:37 1998 Subject: tapers Taper gurus;I have been asked by several people to build rods for them, mostly 8' 4&5wts. I was wondering which of the previously posted or archived taperswould be good to use for people that are used to graphite. I have onlybuilt Garrisons 212 in a straight 5 wt. for myself and a 5/6 for a friend.While they both seem to cast nicely to me, the usual comment from guysthathave tried it on the Juan is "boy is this slow". I guess I need to use afaster taper for converts.I have built the Payne 7' 4wt. and the Young 6'3"4wt. and I like them both on the small streams out here, the midge doesseem to be a faster action. Would this taper expanded by means of Frank'sprogram to 8' 5wt. be a good one? I don't have enough experience withtapers and stress curves to really know what I am looking at. I seem togeta better grasp of the difference between rods by comparing the differencein measurements from station to station. Any comments /suggestions willbegreatly appreciated!!!! TIAJohn Channer from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Mar 7 05:38:04 1998 (8.8.7/8.6.11)with SMTP id LAA12051 for ; Sat, 7 Mar1998 11:41:47GMT Subject: H&H guide supplies from England FAA22624 Don Anderson and others, you've all been keen to obtain Hopkins and Holloway supplies direct fromEngland. You'd be surprised how difficult is to find retail stockists heretoo. Two possible routes: you could write/fax H and H themselves to enquireabouta trade account, although I suspect it would be necessary to combineseveralrodmakers' orders to make that viable from both the manufacturer's pointofview, and the high relative cost to yourselves of shipping smallquantities.I would guess they would expect pro- forma payment too. Alternatively,youmight try a trade enquiry to one of the bigger wholesalers here in England.I'd try Leeda Tackle Ltd.. They're a first class outfit with a good line inH and H products. Again, it would be necessary to consolidate orders, andI'm sure pay pro-forma. I can't talk for these two firms, they may simply refer you to their USimporter, but a big cheque is a big cheque, no-matter who it's from. I'mcertain they wouldn't want thirty small cheques (for some unaccountablereason, you write checks I think) with all the attendant paperwork. Contact details follow Hopkins and HollowayBrickyard LaneStudleyWarwickshireB80 7EE Telephone: 01527.853822Fax: 01527.854285 Leeda Ltd16 - 17 Padgets LaneRedditchWorcs.B98 0RA Telephone: 01527.529030Fax: 01527.525588 Along the same lines: isn't there a case for the Rodmakers of the Americaspooling their buying into a central buying consortium. With forty or fiftyprofessionals, you'd have pretty good buying clout to buy direct from manymanufacturers in many countries. John Cooper (England) from ccurrojr@mindspring.com Sat Mar 7 05:41:41 1998 Subject: Re: Tapersches Being a six-month-on-the-list newbie I'm shaky about making a post - but. . .May I second Jerry's wake-up call(?) AJ Thramer's input on tapers ismost welcome,along with any others. (Thanks to John Channer, et al.) Without a doubt,tapers arethe metaphysics of this here bamboo religion.I'm trying my darndest to grasp all the gems put out on this list (and Iappreciate everyone of them) but the math, physics and engineering that comes so easilyto most of youfolks has to be double and triple chewed by the likes of me. I'm analretentive a-plenty tohandle a .001" shaving, no brush strokes, etc., but stress curves??Whoa.Thanks to ALL on the list.Lurking, learning (and laughing frequently).Charlie Curro from DrBamboo@aol.com Sat Mar 7 07:05:44 1998 Subject: Re: Gillum Tapers AMEN,DrBamboo from DrBamboo@aol.com Sat Mar 7 07:09:32 1998 Subject: Re: tapers You would be better off starting with the Para 14 taper.7' 9" 5 wt.If youdon't have the taper for that rod let me know and I'll get it to you.George from DrBamboo@aol.com Sat Mar 7 07:14:12 1998 Subject: Re: Tapersches Charles;It's not all rocket science.Graph paper and a copy of the Wise FishermansEncyclopedia will serve as a great start for you.Don't be intimidated by allthe calcsetc..Just ignore them and get your graph paper out and start looking at theshapesof tapers you like.George from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Mar 7 07:29:03 1998 Sat, 7 Mar 1998 21:28:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: tapers On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, john channer wrote: Taper gurus;I have been asked by several people to build rods for them, mostly 8' 4&5wts. I was wondering which of the previously posted or archived taperswould be good to use for people that are used to graphite. I have onlybuilt Garrisons 212 in a straight 5 wt. for myself and a 5/6 for a friend.While they both seem to cast nicely to me, the usual comment from guysthathave tried it on the Juan is "boy is this slow". I guess I need to use afaster taper for converts.I have built the Payne 7' 4wt. and the Young 6'3"4wt. and I like them both on the small streams out here, the midge doesseem to be a faster action. Would this taper expanded by means ofFrank'sprogram to 8' 5wt. be a good one? I don't have enough experience withtapers and stress curves to really know what I am looking at. I seem togeta better grasp of the difference between rods by comparing thedifferencein measurements from station to station. Any comments /suggestionswill begreatly appreciated!!!! TIAJohn Channer Two rods come to mind, both are Wayne's. The first is the one Darry H mentions often, being the 7' #4 and the second is WC's 7-1/2 #5.I've made several of the second rod one after the other for people who've used a rod I've made and wanted one just like it. Everybody says they're slow and all that , I guess that's all people think a cane rod is all about so it beats me why people want rods that cast just like a graphite when they can forget all that and have a rod that casts just like a cane one. Personaly I like the paras by Young and always hand one to a guy and suggest he try it. Normaly all that happens is they say they like one of the first two better. There would have to be plenty of other tapers out there but these seem to make graphitists happy and they are good tapers. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Mar 7 07:34:30 1998 Sat, 7 Mar 1998 21:34:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: tapers On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, DrBamboo wrote: You would be better off starting with the Para 14 taper.7' 9" 5 wt.If youdon't have the taper for that rod let me know and I'll get it to you.George Hate to jump in here and suggest someone not use a great taper, but if this is a suggestion for making a rod to suit somebody wanting a graphite type rod I'd be very careful. Sorry if this is not what this post is about. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat Mar 7 07:36:34 1998 Subject: Re: Tapersches George and all: I think this great advice. Although I've yet to plane a strip, I have takentapers on many rods and have done corresponding Hexrod plots. Based onthislimited experience, I would say that simple plots of diameter vs. lengthare agood starting point, especially if you do comparsion plots with a rod withwhich you are familiar. With regard to the Hexrod plots, they too are veryuseful and you don't need a comparison plot to tell where the bendingstressesare. However, it doesn't take a structural engineer to recognize thehumongous problems of applying static theory to a completely dynamicsystem.Static rod stress analysis is one tool, but there's still plenty of room forempiricism and craftsmanship. --Rich from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Mar 7 08:05:24 1998 Subject: Re:help with Torches Rob / Rich The best torch head for the hand held canisters I've found and believethis is the same one Wayne mentioned is the BernzOmatic model JT680called:"Jumbo Flame Jet Torch" I got mine at one of the local hardware storechains -either Builders Square or Lowes It produces a high volume wide flame forheavyduty torch jobs - so the marketing literature says. Chris On Fri, 06 Mar 1998 20:01:30 -0600, Rich Jezioro wrote: Regards Chris from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Mar 7 08:09:45 1998 (205.236.248.178) Subject: Re: tapers Tony,Cane does not have to be slow. It will not help the cause of bamboo byofferingataper that the customer cannot cast and telling him to try and get used toitbecause that is what bamboo is supposed to be like.I build tapers that relate to the modern style of casting, that the averageangler can enjoy, an alternative to what else is out there. They are notbetterthan anyone elses rods,they give a wider choice to anglers.TerryTony Young wrote: Two rods come to mind, both are Wayne's. The first is the one Darry Hmentions often, being the 7' #4 and the second is WC's 7-1/2 #5.I've made several of the second rod one after the other for people who'veused a rod I've made and wanted one just like it.Everybody says they're slow and all that , I guess that's all peoplethink a cane rod is all about so it beats me why peoplewant rods that cast just like a graphite when they can forget all thatand have a rod that casts just like a cane one.Personaly I like the paras by Young and always hand one to a guy andsuggest he try it. Normaly all that happens is they say they like one ofthe first two better. There would have to be plenty of other tapers out there but these seemtomake graphitists happy and they are good tapers. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Mar 7 09:31:46 1998 Subject: Fast Tapers for Graphite users I have found some of the Granger tapers are very fast, should make aneasy transition for graphite lovers. Also some Philipson tapers (DennisH. has one that is extremely aggressive). But I question the value of providing people with merely a woodalternative to plastic. If material is the only difference, why pay thefreight? Personally, I enjoy a more relaxed casting style, the more delicateresponse in striking, the ability to handle 5 feet of line or 50 feet...These are all properties possible in cane, but, rare indeed in graphite(hearsay).I doubt that the ease of casting found with some of thesemi-parabolic tapers could be matched in graphite, the mass simplyisn't there. Briefly, if we set out to mimic plastic, the customer will not be wellserved and it will be a clear statement that cane is merely a poorsubstitute for RFP. Why not let each material excel in its own sphere. Best regards,Reed from stpete@netten.net Sat Mar 7 10:53:02 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA09984 for Subject: Re: tapers You would be better off starting with the Para 14 taper.7' 9" 5 wt.If youdon'thave the taper for that rod let me know and I'll get it to you.George George, I'd love to have that taper. I have the taper for the Para-15 buthaven't built one yet. The Para-14 would be the rod I think I'd prefer.I'm sure I'll end up building both. Thanks.Newcomer with a head full of stress curves and a new bundle of Demarestcane. Rick from stpete@netten.net Sat Mar 7 11:30:27 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA10484 for Subject: Taper offers To Mr. Thramer and other list members, I want to thank you all for the generous offers sharing rod tapers. Asa newcomer to cane rod making, my enthusiasm at the wide range of rodtaper choices is dampened only by my lack of knowledge and limitedexperience in casting many of the "classics". I live where there aresome premium tailwater fisheries and I have yet to meet another FFcasting cane. I am hoping that the Rodmakers-Gathering-South comesabout and that perhaps I can gain a little more experience. In the meantime, let me say that there are interested parties out herewho love to collect tapers AND the the respective commentaries aboutcasting actions. I am building cane rods because I love them (myGrandad gave me his "old cane" Edwards Radio and taught me to cast atage 10, ever spend a day catching bluegills on a 9' 5wt!!). The onlyrealistic way for me to get my hands on copies of the classic rods is tobuild them myself - and I intend to build every one I can. Thanks, Rick from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Mar 7 12:11:51 1998 Subject: RE:Fred Hall Fishing Expo, Long Beach CA RO>We get to the show, and he takes the rod out, and walksRO>over to the casting pond. He hands it to Jamie Lyle, andRO>asks him to try it out. Jamie Lyle proceeds to cast almostRO>to the end of the 100 foot casting pond. He attracts a crowdRO>with his casting prowess. Next person who wants to try it isRO>Steve Rayjeff, who also casts to the end of the pond. TheRO>next person to try it is Lori Ann Murphy. I had so manyRO>famous people standing in line to cast my rod, I wasRO>flabbergasted. Every one of them asked who the builderRO>was, and when they found out, came over to me andRO>shook my hand, and complimented me on the rod. RO>The taper was the 7ft. 4wt. Wayne Cattanach taper. RO>By the way, if any of you live in the Los AngelesRO>area, drop by the Long Beach Convention CenterRO>tomorrow, Saturday, March 7.. After that castingRO>demonstration, Mark Metcalf, the editor of the newRO>bamboo flyrod magazine, asked me to bring myRO>tools and give a splitting and planing demo at hisRO>booth. 11:00 am to whenever I get tired and go home. RO>Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Met Mark too. Sorry I mised you - I was there thursday night. Bought adiscounted float tube from the Big 5 booth. (~$130 for a Browning "U"tube) Don Burns from Mark.Kaye@digital.com Sat Mar 7 12:27:07 1998 Subject: Identify rod weight I have a Union Hardware 3pc 9' flyrod. It doesn't have any other markingsonit. I am brand new to the sport & was wondering what weight of line wouldmatch this pole? The reel is a 'Canada's Best Fly Reel - Major Rod Mfg Ltd, Montreal' - ithas a line on it ~.022" constant end-to-end. mark from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Mar 7 13:09:07 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Tapers, Southern Rodmakers gathering Rick and list,The Southern Rodmakers gathering has been on hold, and will not cometogether until this fall. I'm working with the Southern Council of FFF totry to set up some bamboo demo's, etc., in conjunction with the ConclaveinMt. Home, Arkansas during the first weekend of October. My current plansare to try to set something official up there, and then go a few days earlyand get as many builders there early as possible. After we have beatthingsaround among ourselves for a while, we'll then attend Conclave and sharesome ideas with the general FF population.I appreciate all the help and input I've had from those more experiencedwith these sorts of gatherings around North America. Hopefully we willhaveour own exclusively bamboo gathering in about a year. I welcome any andallinput, help, advice, and financial assistance. (The reason this spring'smeeting didn't come together -- I can't bankroll a coupla thousand dollars Harry Boyd stpete wrote: To Mr. Thramer and other list members, I want to thank you all for the generous offers sharing rod tapers. Asa newcomer to cane rod making, my enthusiasm at the wide range of rodtaper choices is dampened only by my lack of knowledge and limitedexperience in casting many of the "classics". I live where there aresome premium tailwater fisheries and I have yet to meet another FFcasting cane. I am hoping that the Rodmakers-Gathering-South comesabout and that perhaps I can gain a little more experience. In the meantime, let me say that there are interested parties out herewho love to collect tapers AND the the respective commentaries aboutcasting actions. I am building cane rods because I love them (myGrandad gave me his "old cane" Edwards Radio and taught me to cast atage 10, ever spend a day catching bluegills on a 9' 5wt!!). The onlyrealistic way for me to get my hands on copies of the classic rods is tobuild them myself - and I intend to build every one I can. Thanks, Rick from thramer@presys.com Sat Mar 7 14:03:09 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Fred Hall Fishing Expo, Long Beach CA SalarFly wrote: I've just got back from the Fred Hall Fishing Expo, andI'm still giddy. I went to help out the fishing club I recentlyjoined, the Long Beach Casting Club. Unknown to mea friend of mine in the club, who I made a rod for, broughthis rod. We get to the show, and he takes the rod out, and walksover to the casting pond. He hands it to Jamie Lyle, andasks him to try it out. Jamie Lyle proceeds to cast almostto the end of the 100 foot casting pond. He attracts a crowdwith his casting prowess. Next person who wants to try it isSteve Rayjeff, who also casts to the end of the pond. Thenext person to try it is Lori Ann Murphy. I had so manyfamous people standing in line to cast my rod, I wasflabbergasted. Every one of them asked who the builderwas, and when they found out, came over to me andshook my hand, and complimented me on the rod. The taper was the 7ft. 4wt. Wayne Cattanach taper. area, drop by the Long Beach Convention Centertomorrow, Saturday, March 7.. After that castingdemonstration, Mark Metcalf, the editor of the newbamboo flyrod magazine, asked me to bring mytools and give a splitting and planing demo at hisbooth. 11:00 am to whenever I get tired and go home. Darryl HayashidaYEAH DARRYL!,I consider the cane builders a community and it looks like Darryl hasdone us all proud.A.J. from thramer@presys.com Sat Mar 7 14:06:23 1998 0000 Subject: Expanding 6'3" Young Expanding that taper will not work for beans. For transitioning graphiteusers a Leonard 50DF will work. I will post my 8' 5wt Dx rod on Monday,that is what the taper was designed for.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Sat Mar 7 14:19:52 1998 0000 Subject: Tapers- Science vs Art We have been well served by the taper analysis computations fromGarrison. Does anyone remeber using a slide rule and 30+ pgs ofcalculations? Tons of fun I will tell you. Now it is 3minutes of work toenter the data. Don't pay any attention to the specifics of a curve tostart with, look at the shape. that will tell you what the character ofthe rod will be.In designing a taper rough it out with the math and then the art willtake over. IE a bit more in the butt to put more power into the tip etc.After a hundred rods and taper experimentation it is astonishingly easyto design a new taper out of memory and experience. The dabbling intapers is for me the most satisfying part of rod building. As has beenmentioned the quest for the holy grail is more fun than actuallyachieving it. All who smoke a pipe will know what I'm talking about.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from thramer@presys.com Sat Mar 7 14:24:17 1998 0000 Subject: Terry's Tapers Believe it folks, Terry's tapers are rifle fast and well suited toflicking flies from one plunge pool to another. His point about makingtapers so esoteric that the majority of transitioning graphite userscan't get used to them denies the potential cane user someplace to startfrom. from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Mar 7 14:40:35 1998 (204.50.77.70) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Reed F. Curry wrote: I have found some of the Granger tapers are very fast, should make aneasy transition for graphite lovers. Also some Philipson tapers (DennisH. has one that is extremely aggressive). But I question the value of providing people with merely a woodalternative to plastic. If material is the only difference, why pay thefreight? Personally, I enjoy a more relaxed casting style, the more delicateresponse in striking, the ability to handle 5 feet of line or 50 feet...These are all properties possible in cane, but, rare indeed in graphite(hearsay).I doubt that the ease of casting found with some of thesemi-parabolic tapers could be matched in graphite, the mass simplyisn't there. Briefly, if we set out to mimic plastic, the customer will not be wellserved and it will be a clear statement that cane is merely a poorsubstitute for RFP. Why not let each material excel in its own sphere. Best regards,Reed Reed,the average angler does not like bamboo, if they did all builders on thislist would be absolutely swamped with orders.The difference in price between a new bamboo and a graphite rod is notverylarge. When I was in London last year and visited Farlows a Sage graphiterod retailed for more than a quality bamboo rod!The average angler with all the latest wading gear, float tubes and tamehand fed trout hardly need to cast.Why do anglers still prefer graphite? I believe it is because we are notsupplying a product that they enjoy using.Terry from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Mar 7 15:03:43 1998 Subject: Re: Terry's Tapers A.J.Thramer wrote: Believe it folks, Terry's tapers are rifle fast and well suited toflicking flies from one plunge pool to another. His point about makingtapers so esoteric that the majority of transitioning graphite userscan't get used to them denies the potential cane user someplace to startfrom.A.J.,I guess the objective should be to provide a rod that will performbest the streams use a short-line nymphing technique almost exclusively, thebest rod for them would be a $25 K-Mart special (some good rods,actually). Such a rod would deliver the "casts" and yet you wouldn'tlose much when the lead or hook slapped the tip. applications (e.g., large stripers in saltwater) I would feel a lotbetter with an inexpensive glass rod. Cane would manage it, of course,but glass is fine and cheap.But if a graphite user wishes to try cane, he would do so for one of,perhaps, three reasons:1/ because graphite doen't meet his casting needs2/ visual and tactile aesthetics3/ status symbolIf the answer is reason #1, then he should examine (cast) a number ofdifferent cane rods suitable for his fishing environment and make his,now informed, decision.However, if the answer is #2 or #3, the prospective buyer probablywants a "wooden" graphite rod. Now the question becomes, do you imparethe positive properties of cane to mimic graphite? Think of thisanalogy: a man wants to buy an old dray horse to haul timber, and youtry to sell him a Triple Crown winner. Your thoroughbred won't do thejob as well, it will cost him more, and you'll have to break theanimal's spirit in order to harness him to the task.I guess I am suggesting that an educated consumer will be a bettercustomer.Best regards,Reed from thramer@presys.com Sat Mar 7 15:51:15 1998 Subject: Taper Diversity There has always been a wide variety of taper designs throughout thehistory of rodmaking. This is for the same reason that I build threetaper series of various character, Granger had his semi paras which Iprefer for my own use, Payne had several types of tapers, 4-5-6 striprods all leading to a different feel. Uplock, downlock, slide band , alldifferent. Fords, Chrysler, Bugatti, Toyota, yep all different. Halfwells, fuul wells, sorta wells. Flamed, baked, ammoniated. The days of aconsumer being satisfied with a product thatsimply works is at an end.The current FF consumer is extremely well educated, in stark contrast tothe FF of the past. The point being that even in the Golden Age of rodbuilding there wasquite a diverity of opinion as to what constituted the perfect rod.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Mar 7 16:26:25 1998 (205.236.248.210) Subject: Re: Terry's Tapers Reed F. Curry wrote: A.J.Thramer wrote: Believe it folks, Terry's tapers are rifle fast and well suited toflicking flies from one plunge pool to another. His point about makingtapers so esoteric that the majority of transitioning graphite userscan't get used to them denies the potential cane user someplace tostartfrom.A.J.,I guess the objective should be to provide a rod that will performbest the streams use a short-line nymphing technique almost exclusively, thebest rod for them would be a $25 K-Mart special (some good rods,actually). Such a rod would deliver the "casts" and yet you wouldn'tlose much when the lead or hook slapped the tip. applications (e.g., large stripers in saltwater) I would feel a lotbetter with an inexpensive glass rod. Cane would manage it, of course,but glass is fine and cheap.But if a graphite user wishes to try cane, he would do so for one of,perhaps, three reasons:1/ because graphite doen't meet his casting needs2/ visual and tactile aesthetics3/ status symbolIf the answer is reason #1, then he should examine (cast) a numberofdifferent cane rods suitable for his fishing environment and make his,now informed, decision.However, if the answer is #2 or #3, the prospective buyer probablywants a "wooden" graphite rod. Now the question becomes, do you imparethe positive properties of cane to mimic graphite? Think of thisanalogy: a man wants to buy an old dray horse to haul timber, and youtry to sell him a Triple Crown winner. Your thoroughbred won't do thejob as well, it will cost him more, and you'll have to break theanimal's spirit in order to harness him to the task.I guess I am suggesting that an educated consumer will be a bettercustomer.Best regards,Reed I received an email from a guy last last summer letting me know howpleased hewaswith one of my rods that Len had sold him. It was his first bamboo rod andhewould probably never fish graphite again. What do you make of this guy Read? An uneducated consumer who doesn'tknow hisass from his elbow, or a satisfied customer?Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Mar 7 16:39:52 1998 (205.236.248.210) Subject: Re: Taper Diversity A.J.Thramer wrote: There has always been a wide variety of taper designs throughout thehistory of rodmaking. This is for the same reason that I build threetaper series of various character, Granger had his semi paras which Iprefer for my own use, Payne had several types of tapers, 4-5-6 striprods all leading to a different feel. Uplock, downlock, slide band , alldifferent. Fords, Chrysler, Bugatti, Toyota, yep all different. Halfwells, fuul wells, sorta wells. Flamed, baked, ammoniated. The days of aconsumer being satisfied with a product thatsimply works is at an end.The current FF consumer is extremely well educated, in stark contrast tothe FF of the past.The point being that even in the Golden Age of rodbuilding there wasquite a diverity of opinion as to what constituted the perfect rod.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com I guess all these guys on the list are building the same rods? I do not mindthat.Computer controlled rodmakers-Terry from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Mar 7 17:10:05 1998 Subject: Re: Tapersches AJ-What do you consider a semi-parapolic taper, and what are thecharacteristics of the rod? Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Mar 7 17:13:24 1998 Subject: Re: Congratulations!! Darryl- Wonderful news. See what hard work and clean livin' will do foryou?What number (since you started) was the rod at the expo? Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Mar 7 17:17:51 1998 Subject: Re: tapers Terry-Don't suppose (based on your previous posts) that you would like toshare one of your tapers in the 8' range??? Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 7 17:26:33 1998 Subject: Robert Clarke Robert,If you haven't received your magazine yet I would call them as I did whenminegot destroyed by the postman. They sent me a new copy right away.Bret from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Mar 7 17:28:24 1998 Subject: Re: The customer is always right. I worked in a restaurant in several capacities to keep body and soultogether during college. Above the time clock was a xeroxed sign thatread,"We have two absolute rules around here:1.) The customer is always right.2.) In the event that you belive the customer is mistaken, seerule #1 above." If the fly casting customer wants a fast, tight looped rod, you'd betterbuild him one. If he likes it he'll come back to see what else yougot. As he gains experience and sees that speed ain't everything he'llbuy something that lets cane's qualities shine, and consider thechallenge required to cast the rod part of the fun of the sport. But weneed to be aware of the need for a "gateway" taper for the graphiteangler. And for lots of the fishing I do (big fish, big water) fasttapers are a decided plus. I haven't found a good, fast, 9' steelheadrod in bamboo yet, still use a plastic cannon. Brian from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 7 17:31:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re:help with Torches Rich,I just bought (on Wayne's recommendation) A Bernz-O TS4000. Justtried ittoday with great results. $ 33.00 at Menards.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 7 17:40:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: tapers Terry,Why not post some of your tapers for the rest of us?Bret from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Mar 7 17:40:56 1998 Subject: Re: Tapersches A.J.,Would you be insulted if we ask you to post the 8'6" Granger? My very1st canerod was one, (Aristocrat) also my 1st refinish. Traded it for amicropho..er,I mean a hardy reel that I still use. It really was a wonderful rod, and itdid have some "bluesmobile" characteristics. For that matter I'd love tocheckout the 7'& 8' Grangers. I have a Payne taper that I think is probably a 2018' 5wt 3pc powerful/ westernish to offer and the Young Boat rod 8' 6/7wt2pc. Rob Hoffhines from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Mar 7 17:52:48 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers- Science vs Art I consider that it is both, this is the kernel of my love for this hobby. Youcan love Bach for the elegant proportions and contrapuntal balance orbecausehe gives you the chills. Rob from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Mar 7 19:37:25 1998 Sun, 8 Mar 1998 09:37:11 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: tapers On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,Cane does not have to be slow. It will not help the cause of bamboo byoffering ataper that the customer cannot cast and telling him to try and get usedto itbecause that is what bamboo is supposed to be like.I build tapers that relate to the modern style of casting, that theaverageangler can enjoy, an alternative to what else is out there. They are notbetterthan anyone elses rods,they give a wider choice to anglers.TerryTony Young wrote: Terry,All I meant here was that, keeping in mind I have no idea of what your tapers are like, all the cane rods I'm aware of will be slower than a good graphite rod and that will always be mentioned when a guy picks up a cane rod and casts it. The WC 7' #4 isn't realy a slow rod and it's a rod most people coming from graphite can relate to. The only reason I usually ask people to at leat *try* a para is so they can see one of the things possible with cane if that is what they want. As it happens I like the Young paras so that's what I like to show people. My main point was that I can't understand why people want a graphite rod made from cane. Looking at the thing from your point of view, you want to make rods people feel comfortable with so you can sell them and more power to you. Looking at it from the punters point of view what are they after? Tony Two rods come to mind, both are Wayne's. The first is the one Darry Hmentions often, being the 7' #4 and the second is WC's 7-1/2 #5.I've made several of the second rod one after the other for peoplewho'veused a rod I've made and wanted one just like it.Everybody says they're slow and all that , I guess that's all peoplethink a cane rod is all about so it beats me why peoplewant rods that cast just like a graphite when they can forget all thatand have a rod that casts just like a cane one.Personaly I like the paras by Young and always hand one to a guy andsuggest he try it. Normaly all that happens is they say they like one ofthe first two better. There would have to be plenty of other tapers out there but these seemtomake graphitists happy and they are good tapers. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Mar 7 20:34:36 1998 (205.236.248.64) Subject: Re: tapers Tony Young wrote: On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,Cane does not have to be slow. It will not help the cause of bamboo byoffering ataper that the customer cannot cast and telling him to try and get usedtoitbecause that is what bamboo is supposed to be like.I build tapers that relate to the modern style of casting, that theaverageangler can enjoy, an alternative to what else is out there. They are notbetterthan anyone elses rods,they give a wider choice to anglers.TerryTony Young wrote: Terry,All I meant here was that, keeping in mind I have no idea of what yourtapers are like, all the cane rods I'm aware of will be slower than agood graphite rod and that will always be mentioned when a guy picks upacane rod and casts it. The WC 7' #4 isn't realy a slow rod and it's a rodmost people coming from graphite can relate to. The only reason Iusuallyask people to at leat *try* a para is so they can see one of thethings possible with cane if that is what they want.As it happens I like the Young paras so that's what I like to show people.My main point was that I can't understand why people want a graphiterodmade from cane.Looking at the thing from your point of view, you want to make rodspeople feel comfortable with so you can sell them and more power toyou.Looking at it from the punters point of view what are they after? Tony Two rods come to mind, both are Wayne's. The first is the one Darry Hmentions often, being the 7' #4 and the second is WC's 7-1/2 #5.I've made several of the second rod one after the other for peoplewho'veused a rod I've made and wanted one just like it.Everybody says they're slow and all that , I guess that's all peoplethink a cane rod is all about so it beats me why peoplewant rods that cast just like a graphite when they can forget all thatand have a rod that casts just like a cane one.Personaly I like the paras by Young and always hand one to a guy andsuggest he try it. Normaly all that happens is they say they like oneofthe first two better. There would have to be plenty of other tapers out there but theseseem tomake graphitists happy and they are good tapers. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ Tony,you cannot tell customers what they should like, it is insulting theirjudgment.Many fly fishermen will not even string a line on a para rod, this includesexperiencedbamboo users. I tried it a couple of years ago at a FF meeting and they arenotpopular, it is just that simple. They are just not for everyone, just likeyouperhapswith a fast rodI have been making fly rods for 15 years and have built all my ownequipment anddeveloped my own techniques. I do not use math and don't need any videos.Perhaps Ishould have been born 50 years ago.I am not trying to make the best rod in the world and I am certainly notlookingto befamous.One of the better and more knowledgeable dealers in the states happens toretailmyrods and he informed me last year that out of all the contemporary rodshestocks minehas been the only rods that have never been returned because the actionwasdisliked.You guys can all knock my rod philosophy but I'm happy and my customersseemhappyI think once you guys get a few years experience under your belt and gettheconfidenceto come out from under Waynes wing your attitudes will change. I havenoticed byreading the archives what a difference a few months make - gone are theheadydays ofusing white glue.I am now going down the pub to cheer our home town boy in the AussieGrand Prixand toget pissedterry /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Mar 7 21:33:50 1998 Subject: Re: Terry's Tapers Terence Ackland wrote:I received an email from a guy last last summer letting me know howpleasedhe waswith one of my rods that Len had sold him. It was his first bamboo rod and hewould probably never fish graphite again. What do you make of this guy Read? An uneducated consumer who doesn'tknow hisass from his elbow, or a satisfied customer?TerryTerry,I'd call him a satisfied customer. I'm sure he got a great rod and itseems to have been a perfect fit for him. That's like love at firstsight, we know it happens but it seems to be infrequent enough thatvirginity (even cane virginity) is rare.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Mar 7 21:37:11 1998 Subject: Re: The customer is always right. Brian & Michelle Creek wrote:angler. And for lots of the fishing I do (big fish, big water) fasttapers are a decided plus. I haven't found a good, fast, 9' steelheadrod in bamboo yet, still use a plastic cannon. Brian,Try Chris Bogart's 9.5' 8wt taper. I have one and it is a cannon, yetstill pleasant to cast.Reed from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 7 23:55:04 1998 Subject: tapers A.J. and everyone else who has responded; Thanks for all your input, it has been of great help.A.J., I can't wait tosee your Dx taper. This sounds like what I am after, not a cane rod thatcasts just like plastic, but rather a cane rod that graphite users canrelate to. Out of curiosity, what is it about expanding the P.Y. Midgetaper to 8' that won't work? Thanks againJohn Channer from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Mar 8 01:16:31 1998 Subject: Re: Congratulations!! In a message dated 3/7/98 3:19:32 PM Pacific Standard Time,mcreek@sirus.comwrites: Wonderful news. See what hard work and clean livin' will do foryou?What number (since you started) was the rod at the expo? That rod was number 18. Darryl Hayashida from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sun Mar 8 01:57:49 1998 (MET) Subject: [Fwd: Waxed rods] Subject: Waxed rods Dear Rodmakers Thank`s to you all to be now a member of your list. Who`i am?I`m a swiss bamboo rodmaker, unfortunately not a prof ( this momentwe have to much "plastic" FlyFishers here in Switzerland), but anamateur. Anyway, I sell some rods to germans and austrians.Since a few days, i have my own homepage - http://www.BuchLang.com/~grau- this moment not all links on the page works well, my provider say`s hehas some proplems with "cookies", but they will works soon. Sorry to allenglish speaking guys, my site is in german ( the first one!). My speciality are shorter bamboo rods, my clients and myself fishexcludly in small mountain rivers for browntrout an brookies.I do handplaning my rods, a bit like Garrison an with my own technique. This time i do some experiment with oiled and waxed blanks - a not badresult i had with the follow technique:First i do "beizen" ( sorry, i don`t know the english expression) theblank in a light marron color.Then the blank will be brushed first with one or two coats of linoil,then i let it dry for a week. After polishing, i use two coats ofbee-wax, and let it dry for one day. Once more, all will be polishedwitha soft cotton cloth. The result is a light silk glossed blank with an"antique" finish, very nice. I use such a rod since one year, with noproblems. Shure, the blank must be waxed fresh from time to time, but itworks. Question - any other idees/tips for such an finish? Regards Stefan from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sun Mar 8 02:13:00 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with ESMTP id JAA14184 for; Sun, 8 Mar 1998 09:05:51 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users ----------From: Terence Ackland (snipped) Why do anglers still prefer graphite? I believe it is because we are notsupplying a product that they enjoy using.Terry 0.02 cents: It is hard beating hundreds of thousands of dollars of advertizing, beingspend by Orvis, Sage etc. This is what we are up against: The mega-buckselling machine. Sir D has just scored some points, for which feat hedeserves due praise. But please remember, guys like Rajeff and girls likeLori Ann are Pros, one way or the other on the payrolls of said Orvis, Sageetc. The trend is longer and faster rods, new types of graphite, new modelseachyear. This is what keeps the factories in business. Nobody in their rightmind would ever believe that the number of plastic rods sold equals thenumber of worn out rods. Old plastic rods (3 years old?) are simplydisposed of, new ones are bought. It is called consuming. Like it or not, cane rods will never pose a serious threat to plastic,quantity vise. Quality vise is another ballgame: A well made cane rod is apleasure to cast, fish and simply look at, but don't expect Äm to outsellplastic. best regards Carsten from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Mar 8 02:55:52 1998 Sun, 8 Mar 1998 16:55:45 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: tapers Terry, On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,you cannot tell customers what they should like, it is insultingtheirjudgment.Many fly fishermen will not even string a line on a para rod, thisincludesexperiencedbamboo users. I tried it a couple of years ago at a FF meeting and theyarenotpopular, it is just that simple. They are just not for everyone, just likeyouperhapswith a fast rod You know very well I'm not suggesting strong arming anybody into using a rod with an action they aren't comfortable with. In fact what I've been writing all along is just the opposite and is the very reason I said in the first place the WC 7' #4 (or any other simmilar rod) is a good rod try simply because a para *is* different. I am now going down the pub to cheer our home town boy in the AussieGrandPrix and toget pissedterry Well, he should have won. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from wfmack@evansville.net Sun Mar 8 06:21:57 1998 (1558bytes) by world.evansville.netvia sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) ()(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: Bandwith Terence Ackland wrote: Douglas P. Easton wrote: I have always wondered about and been iritated by personal messageson thelistserver. For example:Sam, your clums are ready. Come and pick them up next week. Brief asthemessage is, I must open it because it contains a Subject line such as:Re:Varnishing by hand We all must have e-mail, so why not use it for thissortof stuff. Regards, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY surely no worse than 'AMEN'TerryWhile the number of postings can be rather overwhelming (I don't get tomy mail more than once a week or so and often have 300-400 messagesfromthis listserv), I find them very interesting and useful. Looking at myfile I notice I've copied 29 messages from this session alone--itemsthat looked useful enough to svae for future reference. My request, assomeone new to the craft, would be for more people to share more oftheir ideas, rather than less. Bill from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Mar 8 07:18:55 1998 Subject: Spinning Rod/Ed Muraski I am going to make a spinning rod for my wife. I have a few questionsas regards the taper that Ed Muraski made, going from .250 to .070 in afive foot length. Would that include the handle, or will you add from the .250 dimension What kinds of reel attachments have others used who have made thesespinning rods/ TIA. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Mar 8 07:38:00 1998 0700 Subject: Re: H&H Guides At 19:20 06/03/98 -0700, you wrote:Robert You are correct. Anglers Workshop does carry H&H guides.Anglers phone# (360)225-6359E-MAIL: info@anglersworkshop.comweb site http://www.anglersworkshop.com Don:It is Perfection's size #3 guides that were(are?) all askew. Thelast100 I bought only had about 10 that were usable. Most of the size#2,#1,and #1/0 were OK. George George, Just the # 2's I recently ordered are lousy. Perfection guides used to be"good" ones.Wrote them @ the address supplied in the guide packs I buy - letterreturned - no longer @ that address. Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Mar 8 07:41:44 1998 0700 Subject: Re: H&H guide supplies from England At 11:37 07/03/98 +0000, you wrote:Don Anderson and others, you've all been keen to obtain Hopkins and Holloway supplies direct fromEngland. You'd be surprised how difficult is to find retail stockists heretoo. John, Do you know of any retail stockist of H&H guides - no realy interested in $2,000 worth of them. Don from jczimny@dol.net Sun Mar 8 08:00:13 1998 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Waxed rods] Hi Stefan,You can increase the water resistance to that approaching varnish by usingamixture 50% Beeswax and 50% Carnauba wax. Throw in a smidgen ofpetroleumbased wax.This takes a lot of polishing.But, the results are long- lasting andbeautiful.Any non-drying oil that you can add to the wax will make easiertohandle.If you try it, let me know how it works out for you.Regards,John Zimny gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: Subject: Waxed rodsDate: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 08:22:51 -0800From: gespliesst@bluewin.ch Dear Rodmakers Thank`s to you all to be now a member of your list. Who`i am?I`m a swiss bamboo rodmaker, unfortunately not a prof ( this momentwe have to much "plastic" FlyFishers here in Switzerland), but anamateur. Anyway, I sell some rods to germans and austrians.Since a few days, i have my own homepage - http://www.BuchLang.com/~grau- this moment not all links on the page works well, my provider say`s hehas some proplems with "cookies", but they will works soon. Sorry to allenglish speaking guys, my site is in german ( the first one!). My speciality are shorter bamboo rods, my clients and myself fishexcludly in small mountain rivers for browntrout an brookies.I do handplaning my rods, a bit like Garrison an with my own technique. This time i do some experiment with oiled and waxed blanks - a not badresult i had with the follow technique:First i do "beizen" ( sorry, i don`t know the english expression) theblank in a light marron color.Then the blank will be brushed first with one or two coats of linoil,then i let it dry for a week. After polishing, i use two coats ofbee-wax, and let it dry for one day. Once more, all will be polishedwitha soft cotton cloth. The result is a light silk glossed blank with an"antique" finish, very nice. I use such a rod since one year, with noproblems. Shure, the blank must be waxed fresh from time to time, but itworks. Question - any other idees/tips for such an finish? Regards Stefan from channer@frontier.net Sun Mar 8 08:05:36 1998 Subject: perfection address Don;They are still in Denver and you can get their address and phone frominformation. I called them last fall trying to buy dirrect from them, butthey would only sell thru their dealers and I wasn't able to buy sufficeintquantity to set up a dealership. Those that like bronze guides should giveDave LeClair a shout, his are better than any I have seen and he gets themto you before you die of old age. I don't know what sort of quantities heis prepared to supply, but I'm sure he'll see this and let us know.John Channer from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Mar 8 08:49:06 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks for the tip Reed-Thanks for the tip. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Mar 8 09:05:00 1998 Subject: The network path was not found Jerry- I could not access Wayne's taper from the taper archive. Recievederror message in the subject line above.FYI Brian from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Mar 8 10:40:24 1998 Subject: Re: Taper Diversity A.J.Thramer wrote:The point being that even in the Golden Age of rodbuilding there wasquite a diverity of opinion as to what constituted the perfect rod.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.comA.J.,How true. But a parallel phenomenon, often described (accurately) byTerry A., is the tendency to herd toward the latest taper/action themarketplace wants. You must remember the "Tip-Action" wave of yearsgoneby, where every rodmaker touted the same depressing and inefficientaction.We all have different tastes and I am thrilled when I hear that arodmaker has recommended the rods of another maker to his customer,because they may better suit him! It shows a nobility of character thatI haven't seen expressed in other "craft" circles.On a different subject, recently I was chatting with one of the majordealers of cane rods. We pulled out some new rods by a few differentmakers and took them out to lawn (snow) cast. They were all the samelength and (purportedly) line weight. The first two rods would cast,they would deliver the fly, long or short, no better and no worse thanmany others, even with names like Payne. The dealer was watching closelyas he handed me the third rod. from the moment I had 10 feet of lineextended, that rod came alive! It was truly magic. I cannot express howit felt, but I will say that I coveted that rod. The dealer and I bothsaid that that taper, and it's excellent construction, were superior to99% of the cane rods we had ever handled (and he has handled thousands).We have different casting styles, but this rod suited both.Ah, the magic of tapers.Best regards,Reed from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 8 10:53:08 1998 Subject: Re: Taper Diversity Okay Reed,who made this wonder rod..enquiring minds want to know... -Hoffhines from m.boretti@agonet.it Sun Mar 8 10:58:32 1998 Subject: Info about Link Dear Ffriends,I have many difficult to connect at the Rodmakers WEB Site.To all have info about this ,please, send info.Marco Boretti from jfoster@gte.net Sun Mar 8 11:17:02 1998 Subject: Re: Info about Link Sorry Marco Seems to be a bad week for my ISP.... I'm moving to Ca. in May, am investigating the best isp in that areanow. hopefully this will improve the situation. also, everyone must remember that the NET is not quite a panacea yet..If you can't get thru, try, try, again. regards Jerry from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 8 11:40:36 1998 Subject: Re: Info about Link I had a devil of a time too, I linked in thru other sites my browser foundand now have it in "favorite places". I think it's IE explorer I've tried butI can't get netscape to download for some reason. Rob from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sun Mar 8 12:56:03 1998 Subject: Just a Suggestion I have no desire to irritate anyone, extend the anti-chit chat thread,or create another long drawn out discussion. The simple expedient ofdeleting all of an initial message but enough to identify it or perhapsa key question would really speed up review of incoming mail. I have toadmit when messages grow to arms length by simple appending moreresponses, I don't take the time to scan down to the new thought. Iprobably miss some important thoughts but it's like watching a rerun onTV.George from richjez@enteract.com Sun Mar 8 13:08:02 1998 0000 Lrichjez.enteract.com)(207.229.150.62) Subject: Re: Info about Link Jerry, No problem with your page from here. I've been on twice today.In fact, the last time it loaded quicker than normal. Maybe because no oneelse is on it?Rich Jezioro At 12:38 PM 3/8/98 EST, you wrote:I had a devil of a time too, I linked in thru other sites my browser foundand now have it in "favorite places". I think it's IE explorer I've triedbutI can't get netscape to download for some reason. Rob *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| ________________________________________________|| /\/ \ > > > from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Mar 8 13:47:44 1998 Subject: Re: Taper Diversity Nodewrrior wrote: Okay Reed,who made this wonder rod..enquiring minds want to know... -HoffhinesDear Enquiring Minds,Bob Taylor. This was truly one of his own tapers. Also, I couldn'tbelieve this, the rod is impregnated.Best regards,Reed from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Mar 8 13:55:19 1998 Subject: Re: Taper Diversity OK Reed- You can't drop this now. What was the rod? Brian from rmoon@ida.net Sun Mar 8 14:00:35 1998 Subject: Re:Taper request I have a student of mine who wants a taper for a 4' rod. I made oneayear or so ago, but it was a lousy taper and I would be embarrassed togive it out to anyone. I am also to lazy (make that busy if you will)to sit down and work out a new one. Does any one have a 4' taper thatthey would be willing to share with my student? Ralph Moon from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Mar 8 14:54:38 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users In a message dated 98-03-08 03:17:21 EST, you write: Sir D has just scored some points, for which feat hedeserves due praise. But please remember, guys like Rajeff and girlslikeLori Ann are Pros, one way or the other on the payrolls of said Orvis,Sageetc. This is true. When I asked Lori Ann Murphy if she would take one of mybamboo rods for free just for telling people who made it if they ask, shesaid that might upset some people. She did ask how much I would sellit for. Unfortunately the rod already belonged to my friend. Darryl Hayashida from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 8 15:25:09 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA15801 for Subject: Re: Just a Suggestion At 02:49 PM 3/8/98 -0800, you wrote:I have no desire to irritate anyone, extend the anti-chit chat thread,or create another long drawn out discussion. The simple expedient ofdeleting all of an initial message but enough to identify it George All,I know what George means. I am reading the archives and I couldn't figurewhy so many people reposted their comments OVER and OVER 'til I begannoticing the >>>s! I think if the archives had that advantage you'd hardlyhave to "annotate" them! I also would be willing to bet that they'd takeapproximately 1/2 of the room they're currently using on Jerry's machine!Ihave been as guilty as anyone and I'll now improve my style.Art from TSmithwick@aol.com Sun Mar 8 16:12:01 1998 Subject: Tapers AJ and others, Nice thread on rod actions, we had a somewhat similardiscussion a few months ago, and I got my licks in then and have stayedout ofthis one. It does raise an interesting thought, however. I wonder if we could comeupwith a list of "standard" tapers, that would illustrate the various actions.It seems clear that the Para 15 is the peoples choice for a parabolicaction.Garrison 212 for semi-parabolic? Or is it a moderate progressive?Suggestions andthe tapers------hee hee. from mcreek@sirus.com Sun Mar 8 16:23:39 1998 Subject: Re: Just a Suggestion Atremendous amount of room could be saved in the archives if we didn'tquote the original message. I'm concerned that changing the subject line in mid-thread on the sametopic will prove confusing in future. If archives could be saved undereach thread and posted hierarchically like they are on Netscape theywould be easier to search. But that doesn't seem very likely. Brian from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Mar 8 17:34:02 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Tapers Tom Smithwick wrote: I wonder if we could come up with a listof"standard" tapers, that would illustrate the various actions. It seemsclearthat the Para 15 is the peoples choice for a parabolic action. Garrison212forsemi- parabolic? Or is it a moderate progressive? Suggestions for a fasttaper?Of course we would all have to agree on the categories and the tapers------ heehee. Tom, Never thought of you as devious before, in fact I've been veryhelped snickers,and see the sideways glances as you think about trying to get this group toagreeto "Standards"!! (All of the above written with tongue firmly in cheek!)To be honest though, this is a good idea. It would even make a goodarticlein the Bamboo Flyrod Magazine, if Mark Metcalf is listening. At the veryleastsomeone with as much experience as you could come up with a nice article or to be posted to one of the boards like Jerry's. Five years from nowafterhaving gained a lot more experience, I'll offer to write it. Till then I'llleavethese important distinctions to others. Harry Boyd from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Mar 8 19:44:19 1998 Subject: Wise Available All,Ken Callahan of Callahan Booksellers tells me that he has a fewvolumesof "The Wise Fisherman's Encyclopedia" which, as you know has a goodsection on cane rodmaking. His prices are always reasonable. Ph. (603)924-3726 This is NOT a paid commercial announcement.Reed from KDLoup@aol.com Sun Mar 8 22:05:42 1998 Subject: Re: Another source for H&H List, REC is now selling H&H guides. If I remember correctly, the owner toldme they have recently purchased Mildrum. Those guides should also beavailable. Kurt Loup from jfoster@gte.net Sun Mar 8 23:43:03 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers All If anyone would like to go thru the tapers and point out the rods thathave the most characteristic stress curves for ,slow ,fast, para, semi-,any quatification you'd like to give it, I'll make a new page with justthat on it( kida like definitions) AJ went a long way tward explaining how he interperts the sag in thecurve, jerry from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 9 00:47:06 1998 Subject: para tapers All;I was wondering if someone would be so kind as to explain what aparabolictaper feels like to cast. I don't get the opportunity to cast many(readalso any I don't make myself)and I probably wouldn't know a para if it bitme.With all the recent and past discussions, I would like to have a better John Channer from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Mon Mar 9 00:50:52 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Waxed rods] J. C. Zimny wrote: Hi Stefan,You can increase the water resistance to that approaching varnish byusing amixture 50% Beeswax and 50% Carnauba wax. Throw in a smidgen ofpetroleumbased wax.This takes a lot of polishing.But, the results are long- lasting andbeautiful.Any non-drying oil that you can add to the wax will makeeasier tohandle.If you try it, let me know how it works out for you.Regards,John Zimny gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: Subject: Waxed rodsDate: Sun, 08 Mar 1998 08:22:51 -0800From: gespliesst@bluewin.ch Dear Rodmakers Thank`s to you all to be now a member of your list. Who`i am?I`m a swiss bamboo rodmaker, unfortunately not a prof ( this momentwe have to much "plastic" FlyFishers here in Switzerland), but anamateur. Anyway, I sell some rods to germans and austrians.Since a few days, i have my own homepage - http://www.BuchLang.com/~grau- this moment not all links on the page works well, my provider say`shehas some proplems with "cookies", but they will works soon. Sorry toallenglish speaking guys, my site is in german ( the first one!). My speciality are shorter bamboo rods, my clients and myself fishexcludly in small mountain rivers for browntrout an brookies.I do handplaning my rods, a bit like Garrison an with my own technique. This time i do some experiment with oiled and waxed blanks - a not badresult i had with the follow technique:First i do "beizen" ( sorry, i don`t know the english expression) theblank in a light marron color.Then the blank will be brushed first with one or two coats of linoil,then i let it dry for a week. After polishing, i use two coats ofbee-wax, and let it dry for one day. Once more, all will be polishedwitha soft cotton cloth. The result is a light silk glossed blank with an"antique" finish, very nice. I use such a rod since one year, with noproblems. Shure, the blank must be waxed fresh from time to time, butitworks. Question - any other idees/tips for such an finish? Regards Stefan Thanks for this idee, Mr. Zimny! Tody i was in a local Paint-Store and found exact what you advise - a mix betwen bee- and carnauba wax. They call it "antique-wax". Regards Stefan from jfoster@gte.net Mon Mar 9 01:58:10 1998 Subject: Web Just updated the link to Joe Loverti's page, nice page Added a new picture behind Dave LeClair's Fly and Rod Room, shows someof his components and I found a great new product called Sup-R sander it's under thesuppliers, woodworking tools, it's probably saved me $50 in sandpaperalready, i use it for all my rough work and just touch up with theveritas palm sander. I cloged up my fine grit with something, anotherproject, and they sent me a new one for free. I called them and you canbuy them direct from the factory.the med works great for cutting thread and epoxy, better than a file,faster, and easier to control. regards Jerry from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Mar 9 07:41:08 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers In a message dated 3/9/98 5:44:48 AM, you wrote: Jerry - As Harry suggests, I was being a bit devious. I don't know how wewould get through the semantic difficulties involved to come to aconsensus.My original thought was to do just what you suggest, produce a page ofstandard tapers defining the various rod actions, as agreed upon by thelistmembers. I think the web page is the best place to display suchinformation. Iam not at all sure that this forum is the best place to come to aconsensus.This type discussion is much easier if you can put a rod in someone's handandsay "here, this is what I mean". It might be a good and interesting project successful.I'm willing to take a stab at this by answering John Channer's questionaboutparabolic's. I don't pretend to know everything about the subject and invitethe comments of others. If we can come to a loose consensus, maybe thereishope for such a project. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 9 08:23:08 1998 Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:23:00 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: para tapers On Sun, 8 Mar 1998, john channer wrote: All;I was wondering if someone would be so kind as to explain what aparabolictaper feels like to cast. I don't get the opportunity to cast many(readalso any I don't make myself)and I probably wouldn't know a para if it bitme.With all the recent and past discussions, I would like to have a better John Channer I'll have a go at this. It seems the most likely para (as I understand it) taper you'll find around would be a PHY Para 15 or WC's version of this rod.First thing you noticeis the bending that takes place in the handle when you cast. The middle is a bit stiffer and the tip is again more flexible than you may at first expect.During casting the rod feels more like a part of the line than a stiffer rod would. Attempting to over power the back cast will just cause the rod to bend more ruining the cast and that is where newbies to para seem tohave most difficulty. It's a bit tricky to just pick a para up and cast it, but once you develop the timing casting is more relaxed and long casts become quite easy. I find them good rods for nymphing as the slower action allows smooth picking up of line and casting heavier flies but that may be more of a personal casting style.The anti dry fly action. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Mar 9 08:51:16 1998 Subject: Re: para tapers In a message dated 3/9/98 6:48:53 AM, you wrote: John - As I said to Jerry, I am answering this in the hopes that others willadd to the information and we can come to agreement as to the definitionof'parabolic".As far as I know, the term originated out of a bicycle accident in France.A delivery boy stuck a rod bag into the wheel spokes and broke off about afoot of the tip and handle of a rod belong to Charles Ritz. When Mr. Ritzarrived at his destination, no other rod was available and he had to cobbletogether a makeshift grip and tip-top and fish what was left of the rod.,which was now fatter in the tip and thinner in the butt than a normaltaper.Once he got used to the rod, he found he could cast for great distances, andhe soon began experimenting with this type of taper. Everett Garrisontakescredit for coining the term "parabolic", when he explained to Ritz that thestress curve for an untapered beam, supported on one end and loaded on theother would be a parabola. Mr Ritz was an influential angler and his ideaswere picked up on by rodmakers in France and the US.I believe that Paul Young's work with this type of taper is independent ofRitz's, and am not sure at what time the word "parabolic' became attachedtohis famous tapers. Perhaps someone will fill in the blank here.As far as how parabolic tapers cast, in general they are very effectivedistance casters, but tricky. The tapers are generally strong in the middle,and weaker in the butt. The rods flex right into the handle. The casterstaskis to apply just enough wrist power to get the rod working, but not somuch asto produce shock waves in the line. These tapers are therefore not suitedforsomeone who is a "wristy" caster. On the other hand, they do load easily,andcan be cast for short to medium distance with little effort. They areworthconsidering for people with a slower wrist stroke, or those of limitedstrength. In general, these rods will roll cast well. Distance castingrequires a firm but controlled wrist stroke, a very confident double haultechnique, and the ability to carry a lot of line in the air. from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Mon Mar 9 09:18:45 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) vip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id PAA25264 for; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 15:38:46 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: casting para tapers, -----Original Message----- All;I was wondering if someone would be so kind as to explain what aparabolictaper feels like to cast from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Mar 9 09:23:34 1998 Subject: Re: Taper Diversity RO>The first two rods would cast,RO>they would deliver the fly, long or short, no better and no worse thanRO>many others, even with names like Payne. The dealer was watchingcloselyRO>as he handed me the third rod. from the moment I had 10 feet of lineRO>extended, that rod came alive! It was truly magic. I cannot express howRO>it felt, but I will say that I coveted that rod. The dealer and I bothRO>said that that taper, and it's excellent construction, were superior toRO>99% of the cane rods we had ever handled (and he has handledthousands).RO>We have different casting styles, but this rod suited both.RO> Ah, the magic of tapers.RO>Best regards,RO>Reed Reed, Tell us more! Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Mar 9 09:23:35 1998 Subject: Re: Info about Link RO>I'm moving to Ca. in May, am investigating the best isp in that areaRO>now. hopefully this will improve the situation. RO>Jerry Jerry, Where in CA? Don Burns from mcreek@sirus.com Mon Mar 9 10:57:57 1998 Subject: Re: WHAUW BABY Carsten-Best description of the epiphany moment I've seen. You can'tbelieve it until it happens to you. I too am still mastering the thing,but there are moments when it works beautifully. Brian from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Mar 9 12:10:03 1998 0000 Subject: Re: McKenzie lines Jan,McKenzie bamboo line came out towards the end of 1997. It's made inEngland.It's supposed to be better for bamboo rods because it is more supple thanconventional and therefore more "silk like". If you email them throughtheirweb site, they should be able to tell you know more about it. I think someothers on the list have purchased this line from them retail and their website mentions some limited retail sales. If that doesn't work out and youreally want some, let me know, I may be able to help.Sorry for the delay in responding, I was out of town for several days.Tom Whittle---------- Subject: Re: McKenzie lines Did find McKenzie homepage and found his lines but could not find a linenamed"Bamboo line". What line is that?Jan, Sweden from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Mar 9 13:14:04 1998 Subject: Saturday at the Fishing Expo As I mentioned in my last post, I spent Saturday in the Bamboo Flyrod Magazine booth making a mess with bamboo shavings. I met a few Rodmaker listers also. It was nice to be able to see a few faces to go along with familiar names. I had a crowd watching me split a half dia. culm, but I messedup and only got 15 strips. There was an existing split that ran one of my splits off. Two things were really a revelation to me. It was amazinghow many people came up and said "My grandfather leftme this old cane rod and I wonder if you can tell me if itis worth anything....", and the graphite guys that didn'teven want to touch a bamboo rod because they "knewhow fragile they were". It was fun to let a few of themcast the "Sir D Favorite". Most of them said it feelsjust like a graphite rod. I'm undecided whether that is acompliment or not.... Darryl Hayashida from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Mar 9 15:01:58 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA29369 for Subject: CORRECTION To All,I sent this a few days ago but it hasn't shown up on my list yet so amsending again:The date is right but I got the wrong mountains. The Sep. 12-13 gatheringwill be in the Catskills. Charles Hisey had it right. I flunk geography.Sorry for the goof. Bill from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Mar 9 15:14:20 1998 Subject: Re to Bill , Reason: CORRECTION Bill, I saw your correction posted the first time. At least you didn'tcall Vince Marinaro, Ed. :) Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Bill Fink Subject: CORRECTIONDate: Monday, March 09, 1998 1:01 PM To All,I sent this a few days ago but it hasn't shown up on my list yet so amsending again:The date is right but I got the wrong mountains. The Sep. 12-13gatheringwill be in the Catskills. Charles Hisey had it right. I flunk geography.Sorry for the goof. Bill from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 9 15:47:23 1998 0000 Subject: Back to Work To all who have asked questions that I have not responded to yet, I willbe busy most of this week with my new beveler building taper jigs. Iwill save all questions and respond to each by Saturday at the latest.ThanksA.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Mon Mar 9 15:59:31 1998 emf h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at; Mon, 9 Mar 1998 22:59:21+0100 22:58:07+0100 Subject: Hallo Nachbar =_NextPart_000_01BD4BAE.D324A9F0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4BAE.D324A9F0 Hallo Stefan,Ich habe dein mail im listserver gelesen.Ich hei=DFe Alex und komme aus =D6sterreich ich bin zur Zeit in Wien.Meine Ruten baue ich in Vorarlberg wir sind also sozusagen Nachbarn.Wo wohnst du den in der Schweiz? Ich bin ebenfalls ein Amateur und baue pro Jahr ca.10-15 Ruten.Meine Ruten sind alle knottenlos gebaut.Woher beziehst du dein Material?Ich kaufe den Bambus hier in Wien.H=FClsen bestelle ich von der Firma CSE in den USA.Zur Zeit bin ich dabei mir eine neue Form zu kaufen ich glaube ich werde = von Frank Armbruster kaufen.Woher hast du deine Form? Liebe Gr=FCsse Alex oder Gruetsi ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4BAE.D324A9F0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4BAE.D324A9F0-- from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Mar 9 17:01:13 1998 Subject: Re to Sir D: Saturday at the Fishing Expo Congrats Sir D. Keep up the great work! Are they going to do something onthis in the magazine? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Saturday at the Fishing ExpoDate: Monday, March 09, 1998 11:10 AM As I mentioned in my last post, I spent Saturday in the Bamboo Flyrod Magazine booth making a mess with bamboo shavings. I met a few Rodmaker listers also. It was nice to be able to see a few faces to go along with familiar names. I had a crowd watching me split a half dia. culm, but I messedup and only got 15 strips. There was an existing split that ran one of my splits off. Two things were really a revelation to me. It was amazinghow many people came up and said "My grandfather leftme this old cane rod and I wonder if you can tell me if itis worth anything....", and the graphite guys that didn'teven want to touch a bamboo rod because they "knewhow fragile they were". It was fun to let a few of themcast the "Sir D Favorite". Most of them said it feelsjust like a graphite rod. I'm undecided whether that is acompliment or not.... Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Mar 9 17:15:41 1998 Subject: Re: Re to Sir D: Saturday at the Fishing Expo In a message dated 3/9/98 3:02:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,rclarke@eou.eduwrites: Congrats Sir D. Keep up the great work! Are they going to do somethingonthis in the magazine? Well, to use an old quote, "There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and thelip", but yes, Metcalf would like me to write an article with pictureson how I split the culms to 32. Darryl Hayashida from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Mon Mar 9 17:38:59 1998 emf h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 00:38:52+0100 00:37:39+0100 Subject: hallo nachbar =_NextPart_000_01BD4BBC.BAE13C60" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4BBC.BAE13C60 Hi to all blokes out there in the listserver I used the wrong address so you all got a german versionof one of my messages. Sorry for that. Alex ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4BBC.BAE13C60 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD4BBC.BAE13C60-- from jfoster@gte.net Mon Mar 9 17:54:26 1998 Subject: Re: Info about Link Chris, Don Ca. in this case does mean California, Paradise to be exact.. east ofChico 17mi. You prob know that already. I lived in Alta Loma for 17 years.. regards Jerry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Mar 9 18:52:22 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Re to Sir D: Saturday at the Fishing Expo Daryl,There are lots of us around here who would really enjoy doing somepreliminary editing of that article for you! >grin In a message dated 3/9/98 3:02:41 PM Pacific Standard Time,rclarke@eou.eduwrites: Congrats Sir D. Keep up the great work! Are they going to do somethingonthis in the magazine? Well, to use an old quote, "There's many a slip 'twixt the cup and thelip", but yes, Metcalf would like me to write an article with pictureson how I split the culms to 32. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 9 18:56:24 1998 Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:56:17 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: WHAUW BABY (sound of enlighenment re. para rods) On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Carsten-Best description of the epiphany moment I've seen. You can'tbelieve it until it happens to you. I too am still mastering the thing,but there are moments when it works beautifully. Brian Wayne posted the taper for a PHY Driggs a while back at a time when I was looking for just that rod. For anybody wanting to dable with a para this is a good one to try as it's only 7'2" and about a #4.Because it's short it's easy to get the timing and it casts an amazingly tight loop so you can get the line right out there even in a good breeze.I was using a #3wf and #4DT. The #3 was better.This is the rod I mentioned recently that I was using in company with a guide who was using a good graphite rod and we were both casting to the same spot some distance away. The guide tried it but couldn't work it so Terry is correct in saying these things (para rods) take time.Having said that "back at the ranch" the guide mentioned this to another fellow there who tried it, got the timing pretty quickly and used the rod all the next day then wanted it. Don't be concerned if you think you need a particular casting style in general to use a para. I fish more often with a big bad fast #8-#9 graphite rod in salt water lately as there has been no water in the streams within 300 miles of here this last summer and I don't have any conversion between styles problem half hr lawn casting dosn't solve. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 9 18:59:05 1998 Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:58:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Saturday at the Fishing Expo On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, SalarFly wrote: /* big snip*/even want to touch a bamboo rod because they "knewhow fragile they were". It was fun to let a few of themcast the "Sir D Favorite". Most of them said it feelsjust like a graphite rod. I'm undecided whether that is acompliment or not.... Darryl Hayashida That's exactly what I find when people try that rod. I guess it can be taken as a comliment but I think it looses something in the translation? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 9 19:08:38 1998 Subject: para tapers All;Thanks everyone for your explanations of para rods and how they cast, Ihave a much clearer picture now. Is the P.Y. Midge a para? I built one lastfall and it is probably my current favorite casting rod. It seems like afast dry fly action to me, casts a nice tight loop at any distance and canthrow as much line as I can handle. I would like to reproduce this actionin an 8' 5 wt., but A.J. seems to think this won't work, I'ld be interestedin any rebuttal.John Channer from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Mon Mar 9 20:05:16 1998 bymssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id TAA04372 for Subject: Re: para tapers TSmithwick wrote: Everett Garrison takescredit for coining the term "parabolic", when he explained to Ritz thatthestress curve for an untapered beam, supported on one end and loaded ontheother would be a parabola. Okay, I generally prefer to be a lurker, but I'll chime in here. When Ifirst went to the taper archive and began looking at stress curves, I foundwhatIsaw there to be completely at odds with what I thought I knew about thesubject.This is because my knowledge of stress curves came entirely from thediscussioninwhat you folks refer to as "the book." When Garrison talked about a"parabolic"curve, he was apparently talking about the slope of a curve whichdescendsdownward and to the left throughout the length of the rod, forming half ofaparabola with its apex (or whatever you call it) at the butt end of the rod.Sucha curve is steepest in the tip section, and gradually flattens out towardthebutt. Garrison viewed his own tapers as a compromise between thisparaboliccurveat one extreme, and a simple straight line sloping down and to the left attheother. It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that a stress curve couldmoveupand down along its length instead of sloping down and to the left.(All ofthisisspelled out on pages 227- 28 of the Garrison/Carmichael book.) This isn't what one sees in the stress curves in the taper archives atall.There, the parabolic rods all have stress curves with U- shapeddepressions inthemiddle of them which are shaped like -- guess what - - parabolas. I haveseenrodmakers on this list state that this U-shaped depression is the sourceof theterm "parabolic." It's pretty clear to me that the list rodmakers are right, and Garrison'sconcept of the parabolic curve must have been wrong. After all, thecurves oftheP&M and Young rods DO have U-shapes in them. And if I understand thewholeconcept, a rod with the kind of curve Garrison describes wouldn't flexdeeplyinto the butt, like parabolics do. But unless I'm mistaken, Garrison is the guy who came up with thewhole ideaof analyzing rods via stress curves in the first place, and it's his maththatHexrod and the like are using. How could the guy who INVENTED the wholethinghave been so mistaken about this? from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Mar 9 20:13:39 1998 (205.236.249.177) Subject: Re: tapers Tony Young wrote: Terry, On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,you cannot tell customers what they should like, it is insultingtheirjudgment.Many fly fishermen will not even string a line on a para rod, thisincludesexperiencedbamboo users. I tried it a couple of years ago at a FF meeting and theyarenotpopular, it is just that simple. They are just not for everyone, just likeyou perhapswith a fast rod You know very well I'm not suggesting strong arming anybody into usingarod with an action they aren't comfortable with. In fact what I've beenwriting all along is just the opposite and is the very reason I said inthe first place the WC 7' #4 (or any other simmilar rod) is a good rod totry simply because a para *is* different. I am now going down the pub to cheer our home town boy in the AussieGrandPrix and toget pissedterry Well, he should have won. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ Tony,the para rod came I think from Europe where the famous chalk streams runcrystalclear andvery long casts were necessary. Wading was not an option to the wellheeledanglers andtheir guests(authors and journalists) that could afford to fish thesestreams.These guys were professional fly fishermen and spent more time on theriver inone year thanmost spend in a life time. These rods got lots of publicity in the press andmakersl makersstarted to produce parabolicsAmerica was famous for their dry fly action bamboo rods, it is not justtheaction of choicenow for most.Western USA with its big wide open rivers need a big rod, but would therod ofchoice bebamboo?I attended a FF enclave a couple of years ago with a buddy of mine that isjustfly fishingcrazy, he is on pension and spends all his time on the water.When we left the gathering I asked him what he thought. He replied," Agoodbunch of guys,but non of em can cast worth a pinch of shit" I guess this is true of mostflyfishermen,unless we can spend a lot of time on the water developing your technique,wewill never be atop casters. This does not mean that the average angler cannot have fun.I just feel that a good old American dry fly taper is still the best forbambooand willserve rodmakers better than some of the esoteric tapers that have beendiscussed.As for the grand prix I had plenty of options. The winning car was britishand abrit came insecond.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Mar 9 20:26:03 1998 (205.236.249.177) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Carsten Jorgensen wrote: ----------From: Terence Ackland (snipped) Why do anglers still prefer graphite? I believe it is because we are notsupplying a product that they enjoy using.Terry 0.02 cents: It is hard beating hundreds of thousands of dollars of advertizing, beingspend by Orvis, Sage etc. This is what we are up against: The mega-buckselling machine. Sir D has just scored some points, for which feat hedeserves due praise. But please remember, guys like Rajeff and girls likeLori Ann are Pros, one way or the other on the payrolls of said Orvis,Sageetc. The trend is longer and faster rods, new types of graphite, new modelseachyear. This is what keeps the factories in business. Nobody in their rightmind would ever believe that the number of plastic rods sold equals thenumber of worn out rods. Old plastic rods (3 years old?) are simplydisposed of, new ones are bought. It is called consuming. Like it or not, cane rods will never pose a serious threat to plastic,quantity vise. Quality vise is another ballgame: A well made cane rod is apleasure to cast, fish and simply look at, but don't expect Äm to outsellplastic. best regards Carsten Carsten,I understand what you are saying but when I see I beautiful new bamboorodretailing for more than a Sage graphite there is something wrong andperhaps weare all wasting our time.The cost of graphite rods from companies like Sage have becomeridiculous yetthe are still selling like crazy.Perhaps cane is a dead cause, bamboo supplies are erratic and the qualityissometimes a problem.Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Mar 9 20:52:41 1998 (205.236.249.177) Subject: Re: Taper Diversity Reed F. Curry wrote: Nodewrrior wrote: Okay Reed,who made this wonder rod..enquiring minds want to know... -HoffhinesDear Enquiring Minds,Bob Taylor. This was truly one of his own tapers. Also, I couldn'tbelieve this, the rod is impregnated.Best regards,Reed Reed,Bob is a fine professional rod maker, completed an apprenticeshipwithLeonard, worked for T@T and now works under his own name. A quietunassumingsort of a guy, very likable.He makes some great rods and has a large following in Japan and his orderbooks are full. He works full time building rods and he get a good price forhis products but hefinds it a struggleIt is not easy trying to make bamboo rods for a living. Imagine if guy withhis credentials finds it hard, how will it be for the rest of us?Terry from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Mar 9 21:02:06 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Storage? There is nothing wrong with the two halves, the only thing not to tapethemtogether as this leads to more splits. JB At 00:25 06/03/98 EST, you wrote:Odd question but to the point...How should a culm that has been completlysplit in two be stored? Any different than a full culm with a dryingsplit?thanks doug h James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 9 21:10:28 1998 Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:10:20 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: para tapers On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, john channer wrote: All;Thanks everyone for your explanations of para rods and how they cast, Ihave a much clearer picture now. Is the P.Y. Midge a para? I built one lastfall and it is probably my current favorite casting rod. It seems like afast dry fly action to me, casts a nice tight loop at any distance and canthrow as much line as I can handle. I would like to reproduce this actionin an 8' 5 wt., but A.J. seems to think this won't work, I'ld be interestedin any rebuttal.John Channer Make a para 15 or WC's 8' #5 in his book. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 9 21:13:38 1998 Tue, 10 Mar 1998 11:13:24 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: tapers On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Tony Young wrote: Terry, On Sat, 7 Mar 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,you cannot tell customers what they should like, it is insultingtheir judgment.Many fly fishermen will not even string a line on a para rod, thisincludes experiencedbamboo users. I tried it a couple of years ago at a FF meeting and theyare notpopular, it is just that simple. They are just not for everyone, justlikeyou perhapswith a fast rod You know very well I'm not suggesting strong arming anybody into usingarod with an action they aren't comfortable with. In fact what I've beenwriting all along is just the opposite and is the very reason I said inthe first place the WC 7' #4 (or any other simmilar rod) is a good rod totry simply because a para *is* different. I am now going down the pub to cheer our home town boy in theAussie GrandPrix and toget pissedterry Well, he should have won. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ Tony,the para rod came I think from Europe where the famous chalk streamsruncrystal clear andvery long casts were necessary. Wading was not an option to the wellheeledanglers andtheir guests(authors and journalists) that could afford to fish thesestreams.These guys were professional fly fishermen and spent more time on theriver inone year thanmost spend in a life time. These rods got lots of publicity in the pressandmakersl makersstarted to produce parabolicsAmerica was famous for their dry fly action bamboo rods, it is not justtheaction of choicenow for most.Western USA with its big wide open rivers need a big rod, but would therod ofchoice bebamboo?I attended a FF enclave a couple of years ago with a buddy of mine that isjust fly fishingcrazy, he is on pension and spends all his time on the water.When we left the gathering I asked him what he thought. He replied," Agoodbunch of guys,but non of em can cast worth a pinch of shit" I guess this is true of mostflyfishermen,unless we can spend a lot of time on the water developing yourtechnique, wewill never be atop casters. This does not mean that the average angler cannot have fun.I just feel that a good old American dry fly taper is still the best forbamboo and willserve rodmakers better than some of the esoteric tapers that have beendiscussed.As for the grand prix I had plenty of options. The winning car was britishanda brit came insecond.Terry Agreed. No argument.The Brit may well be declared the winner yet. Pre race deals don't go down too well with the officials. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Mar 9 22:02:39 1998 Subject: Re: perfection address-English Bronzed Guides Any one interested in English Bronzed Guides ( Snakes, Tip Tops &Strippers ) I have approx. 500 of each size in stock at this time. A total of around4,000. Anyone interested in a brochure, E-mail me your address and I will sendyou one. Dave LeClair from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Mar 9 22:18:53 1998 Subject: Re: Info about Link RO>Chris, Don RO>Ca. in this case does mean California, Paradise to be exact.. east ofRO>Chico 17mi. You prob know that already. RO>I lived in Alta Loma for 17 years.. RO>regards RO>Jerry Jerry, Paradise - must not be near LA. Don B. PS - I know it's up near the Feather River. Lot's of nice fishing upnear there. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Mar 9 23:35:29 1998 Subject: Re: Driggs Taper Would some kind soul post the Driggs River taper? Please feel free to dothisoff list if you'd like. I'm thinking of doing up a 7'ish 3/4 wt, and the wayM. Keane raves about this rod has long piqued my interest. Many thanks foranyhelp that may be forthcoming... Rob Hoffhines from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Mon Mar 9 23:59:38 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users XAA01516 Terence Ackland wrote: Carsten Jorgensen wrote: ----------From: Terence Ackland (snipped) Why do anglers still prefer graphite? I believe it is because we arenotsupplying a product that they enjoy using.Terry 0.02 cents: It is hard beating hundreds of thousands of dollars of advertizing, beingspend by Orvis, Sage etc. This is what we are up against: The mega-buckselling machine. Sir D has just scored some points, for which feat hedeserves due praise. But please remember, guys like Rajeff and girlslikeLori Ann are Pros, one way or the other on the payrolls of said Orvis,Sageetc. The trend is longer and faster rods, new types of graphite, new modelseachyear. This is what keeps the factories in business. Nobody in their rightmind would ever believe that the number of plastic rods sold equals thenumber of worn out rods. Old plastic rods (3 years old?) are simplydisposed of, new ones are bought. It is called consuming. Like it or not, cane rods will never pose a serious threat to plastic,quantity vise. Quality vise is another ballgame: A well made cane rod isapleasure to cast, fish and simply look at, but don't expect Äm to outsellplastic. best regards Carsten Carsten,I understand what you are saying but when I see I beautiful new bamboorodretailing for more than a Sage graphite there is something wrong andperhapsweare all wasting our time.The cost of graphite rods from companies like Sage have becomeridiculous yetthe are still selling like crazy.Perhaps cane is a dead cause, bamboo supplies are erratic and thequality issometimes a problem.Terry Hi Terry Quality is always a problem, also on graphite blanks. During the controlof mass produced rods, a lot of blanks has often mirrors and will be endas "trash". Also some asian product are still trash. Here in Europe we has since a few years a "renaissance" of bamboo rods,the fishermans have enough of glossy catalogs with images of beautifulfishes you can caught only on "new Nasa-tech rods".The "plastic angling industries grows", but not the area you can fish orthe fishes self. Here in Middle-Europe we have a lot of sick waters, alot of dirt and rivers that look like in the year 3000.A lot flyfishers fish in small mountain creeks, and here you don`t needlong "powerfull" rods.My clients says, the are happy to find a rodmaker who can takeconsideration for her wishes. A bamboo rodmakers client can say whattype of reels seat, cork grip, action,lenght he wants, also whichwrappings etc. This independence must clients have, thy are out ofindustrial "dictators". And for this independence most clients paya higher price, they know the value of an individual rod. I say we produce rods as Fishermans for Fishermans - in the industrieworks computers as rodbuilder, and they don`t know how the wind blowsin the mountains, which tiny flies are taken by the fish or howdifficultit`s to cast in rocky riverbeds. Switzerland it`s not Montana ( butsimilar), the coast of northern germany not like Florida, and theaustrian creeks not like Colorado. Regards Stefan from jourdoktorn@pilot.stjarntv.se Tue Mar 10 00:35:26 1998 with ESMTP id AAA10524 for ;Tue, 10 Mar 1998 07:35:22 +0100 Subject: PHY Driggs River Does anyone know if there is a difference in taper between theclassic PHY Driggs River and the Driggs River still built by thefamous company. What I have heard they should not have made anytaper changes on classic models.Jan Nystrom, Sweden from CALucker@aol.com Tue Mar 10 01:22:39 1998 Subject: Re: PHY Driggs River I don't know about the kids or Summers, but I know that Paul Youngchanged histapers quite a bit -- well, relatively a lot in bamboo rod terms. I know that many of PHY's changes may have been induced by his wrestlingwiththirstiness while building rods, but most of his changes are likely to beattributed to his change in taper tastes. Also, don't rule out the fact that PHY used an awfully large diametercutter.The larger the cutter, the further away from the cutter contact area thehold-downs must be. That makes it harder to make identical strips. Add to thisthe fact that PHY was a production shop trying to make rods quickly, andyouget mistakes thrown in with the deliberate changes. Chris Lucker from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Mar 10 05:41:15 1998 Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:40:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: PHY Driggs River On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, CA Lucker wrote: I don't know about the kids or Summers, but I know that Paul Youngchanged histapers quite a bit -- well, relatively a lot in bamboo rod terms. I know that many of PHY's changes may have been induced by hiswrestling withthirstiness while building rods, but most of his changes are likely to beattributed to his change in taper tastes. Also, don't rule out the fact that PHY used an awfully large diametercutter.The larger the cutter, the further away from the cutter contact area thehold-downs must be. That makes it harder to make identical strips. Add tothisthe fact that PHY was a production shop trying to make rods quickly, andyouget mistakes thrown in with the deliberate changes. Chris Lucker Gee there are a lot of people on this list, it took 10 mins to wade through all the Driggs taper requests. Not withstanding all the above, if you make the rod on this taper, you'll get a good rod.A bit of advise for anybody not accostomed to paras. You may be puzzled with this rod when you first try it, if you do give it a cast then put it away and think about it for a while before trying it again. Don't try overpowering it and it'll come to you. I hope I'm not out of line in posting this below but I guess it's on the archives and in the public domain so here is the posting by Wayne from sometime last year. /**********************************************************************/ As I said earlier the Driggs or Driggs River Special was a 7' 2" rod -named for a UP stream - I have cast the original when it was in the shop.AllYoungs were made on 6" center spacings starting at the butt so theoriginallisting is as follows: 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" End of Wayne's post/********************************************************/ Tony again, from what I've ben told rods based on PHY have had a bad trot due topeople making them on 5' centres and not the 6" as this taper is. Boy, I can almost hear all those allen keys in shaking hands excitedly adjusting planing forms now:-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Mar 10 05:48:43 1998 Tue, 10 Mar 1998 19:48:34 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: para tapers On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Matt Clifford wrote: But unless I'm mistaken, Garrison is the guy who came up with thewhole of analyzing rods via stress curves in the first place, and it's his maththatHexrod and the like are using. How could the guy who INVENTED thewhole thinghave been so mistaken about this? Could be two reasond that I can think of. 1) There are plenty of examples of luminaries doing good work with an incomplete understanding of the mechanics, take Newton and his apple. 2)Possibly Garrison wasn't mistaken, more his definition isn't what it has come to mean. Whatever, he was just a man with an opinion. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Mar 10 06:17:00 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA11315 for; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:21:33 GMT Subject: Re: H&H guide supplies from England GAA25883 At 07:07 08/03/98, you wrote:At 11:37 07/03/98 +0000, you wrote:Don Anderson and others, you've all been keen to obtain Hopkins and Holloway supplies direct fromEngland. You'd be surprised how difficult is to find retail stockists heretoo. John, Do you know of any retail stockist of H&H guides - no realy interested in$2,000 worth of them. Don Don, You could try: Davis TackleBargatesChristchurchDorsetEngland the proprietor is Graham Peplar, and he's very helpful. They carry reasonable stocks, and would no doubt fill a small order easilyenough if you give them time. As retailers, they could charge your creditcard in £ leaving the CC company to account you in $. Aye, John from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Tue Mar 10 06:17:06 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id MAA11328 for; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 12:21:41 GMT Subject: Epifanes Brush Varnishing I've stupidly trashed a mail that came in that I wanted to reply toproperly, but I'm hoping that I can cover the points well enough. One mail questioned the foam brush used. Well as I've said before, I use 1"wide grey foam brushes made in the USA. By (or for) the Epifanes varnishpeople. They cost the equivalent of $1 here. I use 60% Epifanes varnish and 40% pure artist's turpentine, warmed overapool of warm water. I also then spin the varnished section slowly on a rodturner: (I don't turn whilst varnishing.) The finish I obtain is better thananything I've seen from any pro rodmaker, other than Edward Barder, who Itherefore hate. Really, mine are like glass: Barder's you could dive into,and never reach bottom. What IS that man doing? There are no secrets to the job, but it is essential to apply the varnishstroke quite slowly. It also helps if the flexibility of the 'brush' is usedto apply to two sides at once. That is - you apply to the corners, NOT tothe flats. The brush then coats two sides of the rod shaft at once. Threegentle sweeps of the brush, and the section is varnished. It may be magic.I'm not sure. It's certainly cheating. Someone said they beat the varnish to foam with this sort of brush. Well, Inever get froth when using this system, although if I went at it with aneggwisk I suppose I could raise a bubble or two. The 'brush' lasts for about twenty sessions if I clean it properly, then ittends to loose its flexibility, so it's certainly not expensive in deadbrushes. I am NEVER going to use a normal brush on any rod EVER again. For anyoneapplying varnish over rods that have guides fitted, it's an easy alternativeto dipping then de-varnishing the guides. That's how different this is. John Cooper (England) from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Mar 10 06:20:08 1998 Tue, 10 Mar 1998 20:19:58 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users On Mon, 9 Mar 1998, Terence Ackland wrote:Carsten,I understand what you are saying but when I see I beautiful new bamboorodretailing for more than a Sage graphite there is something wrong andperhapsweare all wasting our time.The cost of graphite rods from companies like Sage have becomeridiculous yetthe are still selling like crazy.Perhaps cane is a dead cause, bamboo supplies are erratic and thequality issometimes a problem.Terry This is realy the crux of the matter don't you think?It's beyond me why people pay what they do for plastic rods except the market will bear it so the prices are kept high. I know the guy making T&T rods out here and he's flat out keeping up with demand on hideously expensive rods that are realy just assembled kits almost. All he needs to do is put the guides in the right place. Sort of Mc Donalds production line rods. These rods are very good and pretty tough realy. I've seen some very rough treatment with people breaking 4lb tippets when snagged by flicking the tip back and forth and hauling until the line snaps. I cringe when I see it but although these rods certainly will break they take a lot morethan cane.I know I've triped over my rod graphite rod in a boat enough to apreciate what it will take. On the other hand we have cane rods. They take a lot but not as much rough treatment as plastic. It's a rare cane rod that will suit as many people as the average plastic rod and for the most part cane rods are expected to look like jewlery so the price reflects that on top of the time it takes to make one.People like cane rods for the strangest reasons, and not only because they prefer the action and feel. I can't help feeling that the future in cane rods is in the action and unfortunately to a large extent the look. This action (whatever action) isn't nesessarily one that trys to copy graphite because a graphite action is best in a graphite rod with all the advantages of graphite. That's very easy for me to say as a hobyist, but it's the hobyists who'll keep the intrest going and proving rods for the paying true believers once the bamboo craze of the masses (such as the numbers can be called)passes as it surely must. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Mar 10 07:44:16 1998 Subject: Re: para tapers In a message dated 3/10/98 2:07:40 AM, you wrote: Garrison only coined the name. He apparently never spent much timeworkingwith this type of taper. For a rod to meet his actual definition, it wouldhave to have no taper at all. The stress would be near zero at each end andpeak in the middle. By his definition a rod with less taper is moreparabolic,and a rod with more taper is less parabolic. By his definition, there neverwas any such thing as a true parabolic rod. The name has more to do withmarketing than anything else. IMHO the word "parabolic" means what we say it means, and nothing more.Mostof us seem to believe that Paul Young brought this style of rod to it'shighest form, and when we use the word, we are mostly talking about histypeof taper. In other words, don't look for parabolas in stress curves. That isnever what the word was about. from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Tue Mar 10 10:53:25 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA079428645; Tue, 10 Mar 1998 08:50:45 -0800 Subject: RE: Para Tapers The term parabolic might have more to do with the profile of the rod then the shape of the stress curve. With arrows the term parabolic meansthick in the middle and thinner at each end. This is used so the feather quills lie below the profile of the arrow which allows it to slide across the shelf with less resistance and jump. Anyway, I've always linked the term parabolic as describing the shape of the rod being relatively larger diameter in the middle, which does result in a U-shaped stress curve. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Tue Mar 10 10:58:41 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re[2]: WHAUW BABY (sound of enlighenment re. para rods) Wayne posted the taper for a PHY Driggs a while back at a time when Iwas looking for just that rod. For anybody wanting to dable with a para this is a good one to try as it's only 7'2" and about a #4. Could you please re-post that taper for those of us who missed out on theoriginal post? Thanks from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Tue Mar 10 13:13:33 1998 (MET) Subject: Hand planed/ machine milled splines Dear Rodmakers! I read and heard a lot about bamboo rods made with millingmachines/bevelers. I know a lot of rodmakers use this technique forher rods. Myself do handplaning the tapers, but i`m also interested inother technics. I see the Webpage of Whitely Rods with a manual fora milling machine for splines - any ideas where such a machine it`sto find - finish to buy?What you think about the difference betwen handplaning and machines? Regards Stefan from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Mar 10 13:38:24 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users In a message dated 98-03-10 07:21:22 EST, you write: Tony - you certainly say a lot that I think holds true in the above. Thefollowing is not meant to be an argument, just a bit of a different take onthe subject that seems not go away - cane vs. graphite. Bought a 4-piece, 9-ft graphite blank from the Powell Co sometime in theearlyto mid 80's, if I remember correctly. It was advertised as being designedforseveral line weights. I assembled the rod with a too-slim handgrasp thattiredmy hand after a short while of casting. So, set it aside, mostly forgotaboutit and then came across it a few weeks ago. Replaced the handgrasp and tomysurprise, have a rod that really feels good to cast. It is a bit lighter thancane, about like a hollow-built rod of mine, but has heft and it sags underits own weight when held horizontal, about like cane . It's cast isdelightful with either a 4 or a 5 weight DT floating line, and almost feelslike a parabolic (or semi-parabolic) action. It casts long and short, laysout a straight line and dosn't wiggle, waggle or bounce while doing so. Thelonger the cast, the more it keeps bending, right on down into the bottomofits 24-in butt section. Sound familiar? But this is old graphite, beforethefly rod horse-power race of lighter and lighter weights with higher andhighermodulus numbers came along. Perhaps graphite development has not beenmarketdriven, but marketing driven. Either way, I think somthing was definitelylost along the way as this rod attests. Regards,Richard from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Mar 10 18:01:43 1998 Wed, 11 Mar 1998 08:01:14 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Fallcreek9 wrote: In a message dated 98-03-10 07:21:22 EST, you write: unfortunately to a large extent the look. This action (whatever action) isn't nesessarily one that trys to copy graphite because a graphiteaction is best in a graphite rod with all the advantages of graphite. That's very easy for me to say as a hobyist, but it's the hobyists who'll keep the intrest going and proving rods for the paying true believersonce the bamboo craze of the masses (such as the numbers can be called)passes as it surely must. Tony >> Tony - you certainly say a lot that I think holds true in the above. Thefollowing is not meant to be an argument, just a bit of a different takeonthe subject that seems not go away - cane vs. graphite. Bought a 4-piece, 9-ft graphite blank from the Powell Co sometime inthe earlyto mid 80's, if I remember correctly. It was advertised as beingdesigned forseveral line weights. I assembled the rod with a too-slim handgrasp thattiredmy hand after a short while of casting. So, set it aside, mostly forgotaboutit and then came across it a few weeks ago. Replaced the handgrasp andto mysurprise, have a rod that really feels good to cast. It is a bit lighterthancane, about like a hollow-built rod of mine, but has heft and it sagsunderits own weight when held horizontal, about like cane . It's cast isdelightful with either a 4 or a 5 weight DT floating line, and almostfeelslike a parabolic (or semi-parabolic) action. It casts long and short, laysout a straight line and dosn't wiggle, waggle or bounce while doing so. Thelonger the cast, the more it keeps bending, right on down into the bottomofits 24-in butt section. Sound familiar? But this is old graphite, beforethefly rod horse-power race of lighter and lighter weights with higher andhighermodulus numbers came along. Perhaps graphite development has notbeen marketdriven, but marketing driven. Either way, I think somthing wasdefinitelylost along the way as this rod attests. Regards,Richard I hear that sort of thing a fair bit when talking to people who've been fishing a while. They either say what you said about early graphite or a good glass rod and that is why cane intrests them. They liked the action.Not to sure where this will lead though. Either these guys will become thiner on the ground as time goes by or the graphite makers will turn full circle and start making rods like this again. Either way as long as cane is available there'll always be interest in cane rods to some extent. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Mar 10 20:12:15 1998 Subject: Re: If you must flame Terry et al,I've been flaming my rough strips on both sides for some time nowusing aBernzomatic propane torch, standard nozzle. Anyone on the list seeproblems inthis method?Hank. from drinkr@voicenet.com Tue Mar 10 21:15:04 1998 0000 Subject: Questioning Rod Weights? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_002E_01BD4C71.5AE1BA00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BD4C71.5AE1BA00 Im sure the question has been answered before but I would like to pose =it again for my own sake. How is the weight of line in relation to the =rod determined? It seems to me that much of the connection between line=and rod is subjective i.e.. one persons two weight dry fly rod could =possibly be another persons 4 weight nymphing rod only by the fact that =one becomes softer with an increase in line weight. Is there any =relatively empirical method to the establishing of rod weight for lines. =Ive been trying to grasp the discussion of tapers here and in the =Garrison book along with Waynes book and I have alot of defogging to =do it seems.... thanks Dave ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BD4C71.5AE1BA00 Im sure the question has been = dry fly rod could possibly be another persons 4 weight nymphing rod only = relatively empirical method to the establishing of rod weight for = ------=_NextPart_000_002E_01BD4C71.5AE1BA00-- from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Mar 10 21:54:44 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users In a message dated 98-03-10 19:09:16 EST, you write: Tony - Your comment on "full circle" reminds me that someone saidcustom glassfly rods are becomming available, and its my guess that would be a desirefora cane-like action at a glass-like price. I think, though, that the bamboointerest still has a very long way to go before it peaks, if indeed it does. Richard from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Mar 10 22:17:04 1998 Wed, 11 Mar 1998 12:16:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Fallcreek9 wrote: In a message dated 98-03-10 19:09:16 EST, you write: fishing a while. They either say what you said about early graphite or a good glass rod and that is why cane intrests them. They liked the action.Not to sure where this will lead though. Either these guys will become thiner on the ground as time goes by or the graphite makers will turn full circle and start making rods like this again. Either way as long as cane is available there'll always be interest in cane rods to someextent. Tony Tony - Your comment on "full circle" reminds me that someone saidcustom glassfly rods are becomming available, and its my guess that would be adesire fora cane-like action at a glass-like price. I think, though, that the bamboointerest still has a very long way to go before it peaks, if indeed it does. Richard Makes sense, I'm suprised it isn't already common as it seems a nich to be filled by plastic makers analysing the market and defining what it is about cane (apart from being cane) that keeps people interested. I'm pretty sure a few people I've made rods for would be just as happy with a good glass rod that has the action they're looking for. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Mar 11 09:12:17 1998 Subject: Re: Test-don't bother 123... from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Mar 11 09:22:25 1998 Subject: Para 14 Taper To all:Have had several requests for this taper so here it is.7' 9" 5 wt. Numbersare without varnish every 5 inches.Cutoff at 46 1/2 ".072 .088 .100 .117 .133 .150 .167 .183 .200 .210 .221 .231 .240.248 .257 .265 .273 .285 .285 .285Works very nice with a swelled butt also.Great rod.George from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 11 09:54:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Tapers To all,Considering my fondness for fast tapers 'til I built a variation of Payne's102 and learned to cast it I would say that trying to standardize the listretapers is going to be tough-hee hee indeed. How does one determine semi-parabolic from parabolic? A parabola is a precise mathematical formwhile mostof the "parabolic" rods only approximate that form. Does that make themallsemi parabolic? I don't know and some of the joy in this "calling" is thevariation of opinions. Mine are changing as my experience grows andhopefullywill so continue.Regards,Hank-some things I know just ain't so-Woolman. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 11 09:54:10 1998 Subject: Re: hallo nachbar Alex,My first wife (God rest her) bin und schwiezer-amerikaner and I couldreadabout 1/3 your post. Gruetse,Hank. from harry37@epix.net Wed Mar 11 10:59:21 1998 LAA17877 Subject: Guide spacing determination To the list, I apologize if this seems an elementary question-- What method does anyone use to determine the appropriate guide spacing(as well as sizing)for a particular rod? The depth of my experience hasbeen in assembling a manufactured blank and using the manufacturer'spre- determined spacing or refurbishing a project rod and using shadowing from the original guides as a reference. Any feedback would be a greathelp. Thanks Greg from harry37@epix.net Wed Mar 11 11:02:45 1998 MAA20909 Subject: Banty rod line weights This is a corollary to Dave Rinker's posting re: line weight. banty rod, how do you determine the appropriate line weight for theresulting shortened rod? Is it trial and error or is there some rule ofthumb? Thanks for your help-- Greg from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Mar 11 11:24:44 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA191906908; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:21:48 -0800 Subject: RE: Banty Rod Line Weights if you make a 6' rod from the mid and tip sections of a 9' rod you can start with one line weight lighter. I think it must be a subjective process for each person. Unless your intricately familiar with the resulting 6' taper and how it compares with a another taper of a knownline weight it would be hard to designate a line weight before casting. If you want to write the line weight on the blank before varnishing then you should be able to put the rod together and cast before dipping. If you varnish the blank before putting the guides on then you either have to write on the surface or apply another coat over the written area. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Mar 11 11:37:52 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA235527708; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 09:35:08 -0800 Subject: RE: Guide Spacing Greg, When I look at my closet full of rods I see an older 9' Heddon with 13 guides spaced basically even through the mid section and closer towardthe tip. I see newer Heddons with less guides that are spaced progressively closer as you get to the tip. I see a Philipson and a Granger with a guide butted up against the female ferrule of the mid and the male ferrule of the tip leaving a space of about 3", while the remainder of the rod is spaced wider but progressively closer toward the tip. The mid/tip banty rods I put together are spaced progressively closer as you move toward the tip. There are software programs that provide guide spacing recommendations based on an operator entry of length of rod. Sometimes these land you right on a ferrule and you have to adjust accordingly. from past posts by rodmakers I understand that placing a guide against a ferrule station is good advice and placing your final guide within 4" or less of the tiptop is good also. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Wed Mar 11 11:48:15 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id RAA02386 for; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 17:53:07 GMT Subject: Re: foam brushes for rod varnishing ----------From: Jerry Snider Subject: foam brushes for rod varnishingDate: 10 March 1998 14:15 John, did I understand you correctly in that you varnish with thefoambrush with the guides & wraps ON the blank? Does the varnish not bubbleuparound the open ends of the guide wraps?You state that the foam brush is a grey/gray color. Most of the foambrushes I have used/seen are almost black. Perhaps there IS a differenceinthe types of foam brushes on the market after all. I recall only seeingthedarkish color, however.Appreciate any info you can provide. Jerry SniderProfessor of Biological Sciences andCurator of the Herbarium (CINC) Department of Biological SciencesP.O. Box 210006University of CincinnatiCincinnati, OH 45221-0006Phone: Office/Lab (513)556-9761e-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm Jerry, I've had several enquiries about this off-list, so I'll reply on-list tosort all at once. My foam 'brushes' are dark grey, so you might call them black, in a badlylit room. They have stamped on the wooden handle: Epifanes. Made in theUSA. The wraps - I first fill with two-pack such as Gudebrod regular build. Iused to have trouble with Gudebrod failing to 'set' but thanks to SirDarryl, I now know well enough to roll the little bottles around to mix upthe ingredients, before measuring the two parts out. That man will neverknow such gratitude again. I know two-pack goes against the grain forsomecane lovers, but I can rationalise its use easily enough. The alternativeis to lay on enough coats of your normal varnish to the wraps, sufficientto fill the silk, and provide a super-smooth varnish transition to theblank. This is very much smoother than dipping, then coating the wrapslater. There are NO bubbles, provided the application is done smoothly, andslowly. Trust me Jerry. Try it. You may want to experiment a bit withvarnish/turpentine ratios, and with the temperature. The rod turner is notessential, but it makes a considerable difference to the evenness of thecoat. If no rod turner, then the section needs to be indexed 180 degreesevery minute, for about fifteen minutes _ less if the ambient temperatureis high. The finish may not be better than dipping, but the wraps/blankinterface is prettier, and in any case, not everyone has dippingfacilities. For folks applying a renovating coat over old varnish, withoutremoving the guides, this is the best possible way. Half an hour gentlykeying the old surface with 0000 steel wool, then two minutes per section This wouldn't necessarily replace dipping, if I had a dip tube: but itreplaces any sort of hair-type brush I've ever used. Again I say, I'll never use a brush on a rod ever again. John Cooper (England) from thramer@presys.com Wed Mar 11 12:17:32 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Questioning Rod Weights? David Rinker wrote: Im sure the question has been answered before but I would like to poseit again for my own sake. How is the weight of line in relation tothe rod determined? It seems to me that much of the connectionbetween line and rod is subjective i.e.. one persons two weight dryfly rod could possibly be another persons 4 weight nymphing rod only Is there any relatively empirical method to the establishing of rodweight for lines. Ive been trying to grasp the discussion of tapershere and in the Garrison book along with Waynes book and I havealot of defogging to do it seems.... thanks DaveIt is an emperical estimate of what the rod maker thought the rod wasbest capable of by the average angler after casting the rod for a fewhours.A.J.Thramer from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Mar 11 12:24:48 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA081770525; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 10:22:05 -0800 Subject: Varnishing Over Guides With the talk of varnishing and brushing I wanted to point out that as a dipper I've used both methods. #1 ....Varnished the blank and then wrapped and brushed over the wraps. #2....Wrapped the guides, then varnished over everthing. Cosmetically, varnishing over everything makes for a smoother transition from wrap to blank. That is the method I use, and I have never de-varnished or removed varnish from guide areas. I've not noticed any drag as the flyline goes through the guides and the light wear that might appear is as inconsequential as the wear you'll get on a black or blued guide without varnish anyway. Polyurethane is a pretty tough finish. If you use it, you might even believe it helps the line glide through the guides. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Wed Mar 11 12:50:20 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);11 Mar 98 13:54:19 EST EST Subject: Rebuilding Question Hello All,I just joined the list having heard about it through FF@. Seems very interesting so far. I have a South Bend 3 pc, 9' bamboo rod. I have stripped off the handle, reel seats, guides and have removed the varnish with an acetone based nail polish remover and very lightly rubbing with fine steel wool and an old cotton shirt. I hope I have not committed anything sacreligous! My Questions:1) What is *The Book*? Which one should I buy?2) The weight inscribed on the rod was HGH. I feel it is about an 8 weight. What are your thoughts on converting it to a 2 piece 6 weight, which is what I'd rather have?3) I noticed polyurethane mentioned as a finish,as well as the Gudebrod product. Which one is more forgiving for a hack like me?4) I picked up the REC components catalog and think their stuff is great. I assume it is more expensive than Pac Bay or Cortland products. Is REC state of the art?5) What are your thoughts on single foot guides - is it a significant reduction in weight?I expect to pick up a couple more old bamboos from a friend for short money and intend to do more of the same. I hope to invest more time than money on this one, and graduate to better components as I learn from my mistakes.Thanks for your time and thanks for not laughing!Joe Mulvey from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Mar 11 15:06:47 1998 Subject: Re: Para 14 Taper George,Thank You.GaryAt 10:19 AM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote:To all:Have had several requests for this taper so here it is.7' 9" 5 wt.Numbersare without varnish every 5 inches.Cutoff at 46 1/2 ".072 .088 .100 .117 .133 .150 .167 .183 .200 .210 .221 .231 .240.248 .257 .265 .273 .285 .285 .285Works very nice with a swelled butt also.Great rod.George from tedgodfreys@erols.com Wed Mar 11 15:07:30 1998 Subject: Re: Rebuilding Question -----Original Message----- Subject: Rebuilding Question Hello All, I have a South Bend 3 pc, 9' bamboo rod. books and links to other sites. 1) What is *The Book*? Which one should I buy?Sinclair: Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook is good, but goes towardrestoration. Sounds like you are going toward reconfiguring to a new rod -(drop the bottom/handle section?). Other list members have done that andIhope they will respond to your inquiry. 2) The weight inscribed on the rod was HGH. I feel it is about an 8weight. What are your thoughts on converting it to a 2 piece 6weight, which is what I'd rather have?The tip might be a bit stiff to try to do that 3) I noticed polyurethane mentioned as a finish,as well as theGudebrod product. Which one is more forgiving for a hack like me?Take a look at Toung oil - lots of time in multi-coats but forgivingespecially when done per instructions from a list member. 4) I picked up the REC components catalog and think their stuff isgreat. I assume it is more expensive than Pac Bay or Cortlandproducts. Is REC state of the art?They think so :). Yes, good stuff and maybe pricy depending on onesperspective. 5) What are your thoughts on single foot guides - is it a significantreduction in weight? Not much reduction except in thread andvarnish/oil.Bamboo weighs a lot so guide weight not very important. Thanks for your time and thanks for not laughing!No laughing is allowed around here :) Best of luck and your questions arealways welcomed!! Joe Mulvey regards, ted godfrey from fer@surfplanet.com Wed Mar 11 15:14:36 1998 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA22939 for; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:15:26 GMT Subject: Re: Banty rod line weights Greg and Chris, I've never done it, but if I wanted to obtain a 6' rod from the mid and tipsections of a 9'I would shorten the original 9' stress curve (only themid-tip part of the curve) and try in the computer different line weightstosee which one produce a similar taper. Fernando Rada from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Mar 11 15:19:00 1998 1997)) id862565C4.00749D23 ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 15:13:44 -0600 Subject: Re: Rebuilding Question Probably "The Book" is the Garrison/Carmichael book or Wayne Cattanach'sbook on rodbuilding. I don't have exact titles of either, but as pointedout, they will be on the book list at Jerry Foster's website. Regards,Ed from fer@surfplanet.com Wed Mar 11 15:20:24 1998 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id VAA23054 for; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 21:21:23 GMT Subject: Re: Banty rod line weights Sorry, of course don't need to shorten the stress curve it if you want a 6' from the mid-tip of a 9', you can apply the mid-tip part of the curvedirectly. Fernando Rada. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Mar 11 16:14:15 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Not to beat this to death but here's my several cents on this topic... Some companies do promote some slower (smoother) action rods.Scott has a fiberglass series and Winston has a very smooth IM6 graphiteseries.T & T and others also have 'light presentation' models. There is quite a following for these rods..not everyone wants the really fast stuff, and ifthesepeople knew what bamboo was like, and realized that they could afford aused onequite easily (or could afford a new one), they would be buying them aswell. Personally, I find that I can appreciate flyrods of various actions, whether bamboo or graphite. I have one really fast, light graphite rod that is just phenomenal..and I even like graphite cosmetics...including theirtranslucency, color and finish. The fact that most have lifetime warranties regardlessof the disaster isn't bad either. Mood, conditions, and quarry are all factors that determine what I want to use at any given time. I even (gasp!) use spinning tackle and sometimes even (horror!) bait! Regardless of one's stand on the action and feel issue though, bamboo still provides something that graphite cannot, the beautiful 'wood' tones, it's history and the precision and craftmanship that's involved in its making. Ican appreciate a fine bamboo rod even more now that I have some idea what'sinvolvedin making one. I am sure this will only increase as I begin bamboo rodmaking and hopefully some day I can cast one that I made myself. All this makesusing abamboo rod all the more pleasurable. Having said this, I don't ONLY like bamboo for these 'passive' reasons...Ialsolove the smoothness, delicacy, the slower tempo where you let the rodwork its magic, and the way the rod seems to become a part of my arm when I cast.I am sure as I try more bamboo rods my tastes will evolve...but just as I likeboth steak and lobster...I like both kinds of rods. Given marketing, the money that the big manufacturers have to throw atit, and its powerful influences over the masses, and the effort it takes to make a bamboo rod, I doubt bamboo will ever catch plastic in the sales race. Not being in it for my livelihood, I am not concernedabout this, as long as there are enough craftsmen to keep the art going. However,I also believe that there are a lot of people out there that only need an introduction to bamboo, and a love of fishing, and an open mind to get them interested enough to buy a used bamboo rod or to save the big bucks for anew one. Call me an optimist, but if I and a close friend of mine (that's alsobeen bitten) are examples, bamboo is here to stay.... Andy from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Mar 11 16:14:15 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Rebuilding Question If you prefer seeing it done...Wayne has a video version of his book. I haven't seen it myself but heard good things and should be getting my copy next week from Cabela's (Tackle Craft catalog). Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Rebuilding Question Author: at Tcpgate Probably "The Book" is the Garrison/Carmichael book or Wayne Cattanach'sbook on rodbuilding. I don't have exact titles of either, but as pointedout, they will be on the book list at Jerry Foster's website. Regards,Ed from mcreek@sirus.com Wed Mar 11 16:32:05 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Rebuilding Question- wayne's video I have Wayne's video, and it is a great help. Not as good as having amaster rodbuilder at your elbow, but the next best thing, certainly. Brian from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Mar 11 16:54:47 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users During the Fred Hall Fishing Expo I found myself standing around talking to a representative of a major rod manufacturer. I got into a conversation with him. Not wanting to get him in trouble with his employer, I'll not mention his name. Me: "Do you fish with a cane rod much?" Him: "For the record, "Never!" Off the record, whenever I can get away with it." Me: "Why use a cane rod since you can get the latest and greatest graphite before anyone else?" Him: "Graphite rods all feel the same. Some are stiffer than others, but basically they all feel the same. All bamboo rods feel different from each other. It's a real test of skill to be able to find the timing of a cane rod and cast it well." joined us, and he said that a cane rod will cost $2150 and you will have to wait 18 months to get one. I responded that I would be happy to get half that and the wait would only be 4 months. That was met by a polite laugh and everyone went back to what we were supposed to be doing. Since some well known graphite casting pros were standing in line to cast my cane rod, and this pro said he prefers a bamboo rod, why isn't cane more popular? If I may venture a guess to answer my own question - costand lack of exposure. I saw it myself at the show. Some guys couldn't believe it when I handed them my rod and told them to go try it out on the casting pond. Many said it was the first time they got to cast a cane rod. Why haven't they gone down totheir local fly shop and ask to test cast the cane rods? Becausethe cane rods are locked away in a glass case with huge pricetags on them. They can't afford them, so they don't ask to castthem. Darryl Hayashida from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Mar 11 17:00:40 1998 PAA07673 Subject: Varnish? Now might be a could time to ask: Can anyone recommend a brand and/or type of Varnish to use? I am havingatough time acquiring the Pittsburgh Paint 77-5 Poly. that someonerecommended. Due to environmental regulations in my area they won't shipithere. Has anyone had good success with other brands and/or types? Anyhelpwould be greatly appreciated. Thank You Chris Wohlford from channer@frontier.net Wed Mar 11 17:46:05 1998 Subject: varnish Chris;I use Man-O-War spar varnish,available at almost every hardwareand paintstore in america. I have never cared much for polyurethane, it looks tooplasticy for me. Spar can also be rubbed out, polished and repaired easierthan poly. My .02 worth.John Channer from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Mar 11 18:12:50 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA12152 for Subject: Re: Rebuilding Question At 01:53 PM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote:Hello All,I just joined the list having heard about it through FF@. Seems very interesting so far. I have a South Bend 3 pc, 9' bamboo rod. I have stripped off the handle, reel seats, guides and have removed the varnish with an acetone based nail polish remover and very lightly rubbing with fine steel wool and an old cotton shirt. I hope I have not committed anything sacreligous! My Questions:Snip----------- ------------------------Snip---------------------Thanks for your time and thanks for not laughing!Joe Mulvey Joe, You are asking one of the most difficult to answer questions in the bamboorod business. I try to answer it for myself by asking another question; Why? Why do Iwant to alter or restore a rod. Do I want to use the rod (which you areplanning to do) or are you trying to add value to the rod. If you aretrying to do the latter, most bamboo rod dealer will tell you that anythingyou do to alter the condition of the rod detracts from its historical(read, monetary) value. The ideal collector's rod is from a fine maker,fairly old and in absolute mint condition. Say you have an equallydesirable rod which has been meticulously restored using original andappropriate new materials (say a new grip new wraps and new varnish).Thisrod would usually have a lower value than the original. I have modifiedrods by using larger guides, new cork, substitute ferrules etc. Most timesthe modified rods were Montegues, or in one case a Heddon which had shorttips. I think that in these cases, no sin was committed. I like to fishbamboo and I can't afford to collect antique and classic rods. Youcertainly have to make your rods fish able. The problem, for me, comes in dealing with the better production rods likeGranger, Heddon, top of the line Montegues, etc. Do you rewind all of theguides or just the one or two which are coming un-done? Do you re- seatthatferrule which is a little lose? Do you refinish if the varnish looks likean alligator's back? Most of us are capable of making an old rod look brandnew. Are we killing off a bit of history when we do this? Am I selfish towant to fish the rod? Also, don't I deserve to have a nice looking rod tofish? I bought a Granger last spring from a some time contributor to thislist. He was kind enough to tell me that there was a minor hook dig on onetip, the mid and one tip had been refinished and a hook keeper had beenadded. None of these "flaws" kept me from buying the rod. I put aninvisible wrap on the damaged tip and I went fishing. We need to come, some how, to an understanding of what level ofrestorationis reasonable. My aim would be to make a rod enjoyable to fish. But I knowthat some rods probably should never be fished. It takes some courage tofish a PY Para or a Payne. I think that making of the new "Paynes, Garrisons and Youngs" by membersofthis list may provide at least a partial answer to this dilemma- brand newhand made cane rods, who's level of quality and perfomance probablyexceedsthat of most of the masters. -Regards,Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Mar 11 18:23:45 1998 Subject: Re: Rebuilding Question Joe -There are a few comments to read at - flyanglersonline.com. Thequestionnow is how you want the end product to look - original - functional from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Mar 11 18:39:04 1998 Subject: Re: Varnishing Over Guides Chris: I agree with not having to remove varnish from the guides. I dip after theblank is wrapped, and the varnish is thinned by about 15% so there is littlebuild up on the guides. --Rich from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Mar 11 18:51:11 1998 Subject: Re: Rebuilding Question In a message dated 98-03-11 13:55:32 EST, you write: Joe: 1. For refinishing, pick up Stu Kirkfield's book ("The Fine Bamboo Rod", Ithink) or Mike Sinclair's ("Bamboo Rod Restoartion Handbook"). 2. Are you sure it's HGH and not HDH. HGH would roughly be a DT8 and HDHaDT6. 3. Brush varnishing is very tricky business. If you're going to do morethana few rods, I'd recommend a dip tube. (Kirkfield's book or WayneCattanach'sbook can give you the details.) Polyurethane is great stuff, but choose aquality one for exterior purposes (Minwax spar urethane is widelyavailableand I've used it with good results. Others on this list have recommendedP&LVarmoor and a PPG product that I can't remember.) Since I dorestorations, I've switched to spar varnish -- the one I've settled on is McCloskey Man-o-WarSpar by Valspar. 4. I think REC makes the classiest reel seats in the business but it's asmall operation and you may have to wait a while for them to fill theorder.They also have the old Mildrum strippers. 5. I would not use single foot guides on bamboo! The weight difference isminiscule and they just wouldn't look right on bamboo. Use the black hardchrome snakes from Pac Bay or the black DLCs (more expensive) fromHopkins &Holloway (available from Angler's Workshop). --Rich from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Mar 11 19:02:05 1998 Subject: Re: [Fwd: Waxed rods] Lieber Stefan Beizen ist "stain" auf English. Und herzlich willkommen! Davy Riggs from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Mar 11 19:04:13 1998 Subject: Re to Joe and Rich: Rebuilding Question I agree that REC's stuff is really nice. I also agree it takes a while toget your order, but it is worth the wait. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: RMargiotta Subject: Re: Rebuilding QuestionDate: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 4:45 PM In a message dated 98-03-11 13:55:32 EST, you write: Joe: 1. For refinishing, pick up Stu Kirkfield's book ("The Fine Bamboo Rod",Ithink) or Mike Sinclair's ("Bamboo Rod Restoartion Handbook"). 2. Are you sure it's HGH and not HDH. HGH would roughly be a DT8 andHDH aDT6. 3. Brush varnishing is very tricky business. If you're going to do morethana few rods, I'd recommend a dip tube. (Kirkfield's book or WayneCattanach'sbook can give you the details.) Polyurethane is great stuff, but chooseaquality one for exterior purposes (Minwax spar urethane is widelyavailableand I've used it with good results. Others on this list have recommendedP&LVarmoor and a PPG product that I can't remember.) Since I dorestorations, I've switched to spar varnish -- the one I've settled on is McCloskeyMan-o-WarSpar by Valspar. 4. I think REC makes the classiest reel seats in the business but it's asmall operation and you may have to wait a while for them to fill theorder.They also have the old Mildrum strippers. 5. I would not use single foot guides on bamboo! The weight differenceisminiscule and they just wouldn't look right on bamboo. Use the blackhardchrome snakes from Pac Bay or the black DLCs (more expensive) fromHopkins &Holloway (available from Angler's Workshop). --Rich from vorndran@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 11 19:14:53 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA18771 +0000Subject: Re: Varnish? Hello All, I have been "lurking" on this list for some time now and decided to respond to this post.I have built a number of rods and have been using Pratt&Lambert Vitrolite varnish. This is an expensive varnish, however, it is extremely good. It has the Ultraviolet inhibitors to make it last in the sun for many years. I have never used any other type of varnish on my rods and I have never seen this varnish mentioned on the list before! Anyway, just my 2 cents worth..... John Vorndran from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Mar 11 19:30:20 1998 RAA21704 Subject: Re: Varnish? John,Funny thing, a sales person at the paint store told me that was his bestvarnish. Thanks for the input. Regards, Chris Wohlford from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Mar 11 19:50:32 1998 RAA18774 Subject: Re: Varnish? John C.I'm always willing to try something new (at least new to me). Thanks forinput. Chris Wohlford ----------------------------------------------------------------------Chris;I use Man-O- War spar varnish,available at almost every hardware andpaintstore in america. I have never cared much for polyurethane, it looks too plasticy for me. Spar can also be rubbed out, polished and repairedeasierthan poly. My .02 worth.John Channer from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Mar 11 20:24:51 1998 Subject: Re: Varnishing Over Guides Chris,I varnish my blanks first and then wrap the guides and varnish thewraps with five coats of varnish. I do it this way for two reasons. I think therod looks better with that cutoff at each guide rather than the varnish going upandover the wrap. Also, if you ever have to replace a guide ( which happenssometimes ) it is very easy to remove the wraps and rewrap a new guide withoutdamaging the varnish on the blank. As a matter of fact, one of my customers just brought his5ft. 6in. 2wt., that I built for him two years ago, and wanted the grip changed. Hisarthritis in his hands is getting bad and he can't hold the small original grip well. Ihad to remove the stripper guide, the hook keeper and the winding checkreplacethe grip. Then reinstall the guide, etc. And revarnish the wraps.It cam outperfect. If the rod was varnished over the guides,etc. It would'nt have come outthis good. Dave LeClair from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 11 21:32:46 1998 Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination Greg,There is a 2 part formula that uses the no. of guides and the distance ofthe 1st and last (stripper) guide from the tip. I found that Orvis (you'llexcuse the expression) uses the same formula and I've used their spacingfromtheir rod building guide quite often. The formulae are tedious but if you orany one else wants them I'll post them again, if I can find 'em.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 11 21:36:51 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Richard,I have to agree on the earlier graphite vs. the present light,hi- modulusstuff. Sage made a 7' for 4/5 in their #2 which was great on the smallBlueRidge streams and then discontinued it (except their Discovery series), atleast as far as buying blanks is concerned.Hope to see you at Grayrock.Regards,Hank. from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Mar 11 21:40:48 1998 (205.236.248.218) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users As long as there is a waiting list for bamboo rods they will never bepopular. Many anglers cannot wait and most rodmakers cannot keep totheir quoted delivery date.I think perhaps builders should concentrate on building time savingequipment so that they can get more rods on the retailers racks.I know that A.J, Mr. Bamboo and myself are all trying to developbevellers and time saving devices. This is what really consumes me, nottapers.If just ten percent of the plastic buying anglers decided to switch tobamboo we would all be backordered for years.I believe the problem is the way we are building them. We cannot makethem fast enough and it is hard work. It would be a terrible waste togenerate an interest and then not be able to supply.My heroes of the golden age are not the small custom builders but largerod shops such as Heddon. They supplied thousands of quality rods to themasses and they made a lot of money.I spend more time on developing equipment than building rods because Ifind rodmaking increasingly to be a chore.Terry SalarFly wrote: During the Fred Hall Fishing Expo I found myself standingaround talking to a representative of a major rod manufacturer.I got into a conversation with him. Not wanting to get him introuble with his employer, I'll not mention his name. Me:"Do you fish with a cane rod much?" Him:"For the record, "Never!" Off the record, whenever I can get awaywith it." Me:"Why use a cane rod since you can get the latest and greatestgraphite before anyone else?" Him:"Graphite rods all feel the same. Some are stiffer than others,but basically they all feel the same. All bamboo rods feeldifferent from each other. It's a real test of skill to be able tofind the timing of a cane rod and cast it well." joined us, and he said that a cane rod will cost $2150 andyou will have to wait 18 months to get one. I responded thatI would be happy to get half that and the wait would only be4 months. That was met by a polite laugh and everyone wentback to what we were supposed to be doing. Since some well known graphite casting pros were standingin line to cast my cane rod, and this pro said he prefers abamboo rod, why isn't cane more popular? If I may venture a guess to answer my own question - costand lack of exposure. I saw it myself at the show. Some guyscouldn't believe it when I handed them my rod and told them togo try it out on the casting pond. Many said it was the first timethey got to cast a cane rod. Why haven't they gone down totheir local fly shop and ask to test cast the cane rods? Becausethe cane rods are locked away in a glass case with huge pricetags on them. They can't afford them, so they don't ask to castthem. Darryl Hayashida from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Mar 11 21:55:22 1998 (205.236.248.218) Subject: Re: If you must flame FISHWOOL wrote: Terry et al,I've been flaming my rough strips on both sides for some time nowusing aBernzomatic propane torch, standard nozzle. Anyone on the list seeproblems inthis method?Hank. Hank,the instrument I mentioned was a bernzomatic portable paint stripper. I donotflame my cane but have experimented with a propane torch and It seemeda littlefierce to me.I got hold of one of these paint strippers and it seemed a lot morecontrollable.hot gasses and not a bare flame comes into contact with the cane and atalwaysthedistance.It was just a suggestion I thought might be worth a try, if anyone had oneofthese devices at home.Terry from tausfeld@earthlink.net Wed Mar 11 22:27:53 1998 Subject: I'm Baaaaacck.... Hello all, Man what a crazy ride its been.. New job is great, been very busy. No time for planing cane as of yet, I'm just hoping I find time for using it soon. So, what did I miss??? ; ) Tom Ausfeld from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Mar 11 22:53:24 1998 Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:52:08 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: As long as there is a waiting list for bamboo rods they will never bepopular. Many anglers cannot wait and most rodmakers cannot keep totheir quoted delivery date.I think perhaps builders should concentrate on building time savingequipment so that they can get more rods on the retailers racks.I know that A.J, Mr. Bamboo and myself are all trying to developbevellers and time saving devices. This is what really consumes me, nottapers.If just ten percent of the plastic buying anglers decided to switch tobamboo we would all be backordered for years.I believe the problem is the way we are building them. We cannot makethem fast enough and it is hard work. It would be a terrible waste togenerate an interest and then not be able to supply.My heroes of the golden age are not the small custom builders but largerod shops such as Heddon. They supplied thousands of quality rods to themasses and they made a lot of money.I spend more time on developing equipment than building rods because Ifind rodmaking increasingly to be a chore.Terry Chances are better than good that I'll never see one of your rods Terry, and knowing you don't like pretty rods which I fully agree with how are you finishing your rods?I know you're impregnating them what I mean is what are you doing re binding, reel seats etc? I'm not asking for any details I wouldn't see if I could actually see one. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Mar 11 22:53:52 1998 Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:53:39 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Para 14 Taper On Wed, 11 Mar 1998, DrBamboo wrote: To all:Have had several requests for this taper so here it is.7' 9" 5 wt.Numbersare without varnish every 5 inches.Cutoff at 46 1/2 ".072 .088 .100 .117 .133 .150 .167 .183 .200 .210 .221 .231 .240.248 .257 .265 .273 .285 .285 .285Works very nice with a swelled butt also.Great rod.George How does it go with a swelled butt? Is it still a para action or something else that is still a good casting rod? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Mar 11 23:12:42 1998 VAA07663 Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination Hank,I for one would appreciate this being posted. I have always found myselffeelinga little lost here. ThanksChris W. -------------------------------------------------------------- FISHWOOL wrote: Greg,There is a 2 part formula that uses the no. of guides and the distance ofthe 1st and last (stripper) guide from the tip. I found that Orvis (you'llexcuse the expression) uses the same formula and I've used their spacingfromtheir rod building guide quite often. The formulae are tedious but if youorany one else wants them I'll post them again, if I can find 'em.Hank. from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Wed Mar 11 23:12:55 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAD29933 +0000 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Sir D:Sorry to disagree, but the basic problem with cane IMHO is that the fishingpopulation is in large part composed of people who can't cast for diddly.The pros you have been referring to can cast as much line with abroomstickas with your rod. In fact, I have cast with some that can throw a goodlyamount of line with no rod, just using both hands and a WF 7 or betterline. Good cane, bad cane, indifferent cane all require a modicum of basiccasting skills to handle properly as does glass. A lot of graphite on theother hand can (with 10 minutes of instruction) throw what the averagenotvery skilled consumer regards as a meaningful amount of line (may notfish graphite is superior tool. I am a fan of early Scott rods and fish withsome long time employees of a major retailer and some guide friends whoalso favor early Scotts....newbies could/can throw more line with otherplastic rods...used to tell them that in the long run the Scott would makethem become more proficient casters...still think that is true, both ofearly Scotts and cane...given the american predilection for instantgratification it is no wonder that cane is a hard sell to the massescompared to cane. SalarFly wrote:Snippety snip snip> If I may venture a guess to answer my own question - costand lack of exposure. I saw it myself at the show. Some guyscouldn't believe it when I handed them my rod and told them togo try it out on the casting pond. Many said it was the first timethey got to cast a cane rod. Why haven't they gone down totheir local fly shop and ask to test cast the cane rods? Becausethe cane rods are locked away in a glass case with huge pricetags on them. They can't afford them, so they don't ask to castthem. Darryl Hayashida Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from dickay@alltel.net Wed Mar 11 23:50:50 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAAD86 0600 Subject: Re: Lathe Wizards Dave RinkerContact me off list. I may have some information for you.Dick (dickay@alltel.net) from tlongair@telusplanet.net Wed Mar 11 23:51:53 1998 ESMTP withESMTP id ; Wed, 11 Mar 1998 22:49:12 -0700 Subject: rod binder Hi all,Still working away at assembling parts and supplies, soon the ice willclear and I may have to go fishing instead of rod building. In any case Iam building my binder now and can't find the address of Jenn's netcraft forthe thread tensioners. Also I purchased some upholstery thread but itcomes on bindertwine size spools. Do you spool this onto something alittle more manageable? Any suggestions would be appreciated.Terry Longair from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Mar 12 00:05:01 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: [Fwd: Waxed rods] AAA31741 Ragnarig wrote: Lieber Stefan Beizen ist "stain" auf English. Und herzlich willkommen! Davy Riggs Wauuuuu! Wer da so alles deutsch spricht - danke fèrs willkommen! Stefan from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Thu Mar 12 04:12:03 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id KAA26838 for; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:16:54 GMT Subject: Redundant ferrules would like to sell, or trade. I have lathe facilities, so I'm not at all worried about the lack ofwaterproofing septum, or having to clean up old stock. I need all sizes, particularly bigger sizes - everything from 12/64ths to30/64ths. Brass or nickel nilver. Super Z, Super Swiss, or Leonard patternwould be fine. I guess there are quite a few big old ferrules lying forgotten in rodmaker'sshops. I can put them to good use. Contact me off list to save bandwidth. John Cooper from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Mar 12 06:48:51 1998 Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination Hank,I'm not sure about Greg but I Would like to see the post again.Thanks.Gary At 10:25 PM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote:Greg,There is a 2 part formula that uses the no. of guides and the distance ofthe 1st and last (stripper) guide from the tip. I found that Orvis (you'llexcuse the expression) uses the same formula and I've used their spacingfromtheir rod building guide quite often. The formulae are tedious but if youorany one else wants them I'll post them again, if I can find 'em.Hank. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Mar 12 07:28:56 1998 "Why haven't they gone down totheir local fly shop and ask to test cast the cane rods? Becausethe cane rods are locked away in a glass case with huge pricetags on them. They can't afford them, so they don't ask to castthem." "Darryl Hayashida" This is really an oversimplication. I spend at least five-six weeks flyfishing throughout Montana, Wyoming, Colorado each summer (and havebeendoing so for many years) and during this time I attempt to visit most ofthe major name fly shops. Frankly, I haven't SEEN a bamboo rod in most ofthese shops, let alone being stored behind glass!Jerry Snider. Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Mar 12 07:49:36 1998 Subject: Parabolic Tapers Page I am still pursuing the idea of a "standard" taper page.In response to Hank, who suggests that a complete definition that wouldcatagorize every rod would be difficult. I agree with this. I think what weshould do is offer a general description of what the type of taper is about,and then offer some tapers that fit squarely in the middle of thedefinition,complete with stress and gauge charts that illustrate the definition. Mychoices would include the Para 15, and the Pezon & Michel parabolicespeciale from the web page. I would like to include the Payne 7'9" parabolic also,butthe taper looks strange to me. Jerry and Reed, could you check your notes?Point 45 looks out of whack to me, are you sure it should not be .217insteadof .207? The middle of the rod is a strange place for a flat spot in thetaper, and a stress peak in a parabolic.I have never liked the term Semi-Parabolic, which seems to me confusingandnon-descriptive. I would prefer "progressive", and would like to see a pagealso for "fast" tapers. Any suggestions for other taper categories thatcouldbe solidly defined? from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Mar 12 08:08:37 1998 Subject: Re: Rebuilding Question In a message dated 98-03-11 16:17:20 EST, you write: 5) What are your thoughts on single foot guides - is it a significantreduction in weight? Not much reduction except in thread andvarnish/oil.Bamboo weighs a lot so guide weight not very important. Joe - If you use the metal single-foot guides made from a continuouslength ofwire, you might find that the "V" at the bottom will trap any knot as youreelin your line/leader. Tried that on a casting rod, and off they came.Regards,Richard Tyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Mar 12 08:09:52 1998 Subject: Re: Varnish? In a message dated 98-03-11 20:18:12 EST, you write: John : is Vitrolite a spar or a urethane varnish?Regards,Richard from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Mar 12 08:14:21 1998 Subject: Re: Varnish? John Vorndran wrote: Hello All, I have built a number of rods and have been using Pratt&LambertVitrolitevarnish. John Vorndran What has been your experience with storage of this varnish? I've usedPrattand Lambert 61 which gives an excellent finish but no matter what I docongeals in the dip tube within a short time. It too is expensive and whenitclots the plastic dip tube has to be replaced as well. I've now changed to adifferent varnish but not sure if the finish is a nice.George Barnes from gwbarnes@gwi.net Thu Mar 12 08:17:04 1998 Subject: Re: varnish john channer wrote: Chris;I use Man-O-War spar varnish,available at almost every hardware andpaintstore in america. I have never cared much for polyurethane, it looks tooplasticy for me. Spar can also be rubbed out, polished and repaired easierthan poly. My .02 worth.John Channer How's the shelf life? That's what I've switched to but that particularvarnishis difficult to find in this area, as well.George Barnes from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Mar 12 09:14:17 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Unfortunately even bamboo from the small makers (not Winston, etc.)at $1000 - $1200 are significantly more expensive than the better plastic rods...usually double...so even they are still too much for most people. So yes, I agree the cost and therefore exposure are major reasons more people don't buy them. They also are unaware of all the good deals in used bamboo, which could get them hooked. I don't think the wait should be that much of a factor (at least it isn't for me) as I don't know a fisherman that has no other rods to fish with while waiting. As for all plastic feeling the same...that pro Darryl mentions is entitled to his opinion but I don't agree. There are different tapers just as in bamboo and there are different graphites, and I think they vary a great deal. Not nearly as much as with bamboo, of course, but they are also less of a challenge to cast well...and in general most do cast very well in terms of distance and accuracy...so in that sense maybe they are the same...some people would say that's not such a bad thing. Perhaps trying to find the 'soul' of a specific bamboo rod and the rewards it brings once casting the rod is mastered is not for everyone..but maybe that's just fine. Andy from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Mar 12 09:19:28 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Actually some companies do promote some slower (smoother) action rods.Scott has a fiberglass series and Winston has a very smooth IM6 graphiteseries.T & T and others also have 'light presentation' models. I find that I can appreciate flyrods of various actions, whether bamboo or graphite. ..anddon't shoot me for saying this but I still really like graphite rods...includingtheirlooks/finish. The fact that most have lifetime warranties regardless ofthe disaster isn't bad either. Mood, conditions, and quarry are all factors that determine what I want to use at any given time. Regardless of the action and feel issue, bamboo still provides somethingthat graphite cannot, the beautiful 'wood' tones, it's history and the precisionand craftmanship that's involved in its making. I can appreciate a fine bamboorod even more now that I have some idea what's involved in its making. I amsure this will only increase as I begin rod making and hopefully some day cancast one that I made myself. All this makes USING a bamboo rod all the more pleasurable. Having said this, don't get me wrong... I don't ONLY like bamboo for these 'intangible' reasons...I also love the smoothness, delicacy, and the way therodseems to become a part of my arm when I cast. I am sure as I try morebamboo rods my tastes will evolve... Given marketing, the money that the big manufacturers have to throw atit, and its powerful influences over the masses, I doubt bamboo will ever catchplastic in the sales race. Not being in it for my livelihood, I am not concernedabout this, as long as there are enough craftsmen to keep the art going. However,I also believe that there are a lot of people out there that only need an introduction to bamboo, and a love of fishing, and an open mind to get them interested enough to spend the bucks for a good bamboo rod, regardless ofthe speed of its taper. A close friend and I are two such individuals. Andy______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Author: at Tcpgate On Tue, 10 Mar 1998, Fallcreek9 wrote: In a message dated 98-03-10 07:21:22 EST, you write: unfortunately to a large extent the look. This action (whatever action) isn't nesessarily one that trys to copy graphite because a graphiteaction is best in a graphite rod with all the advantages of graphite. That's very easy for me to say as a hobyist, but it's the hobyists who'll keep the intrest going and proving rods for the paying true believersonce the bamboo craze of the masses (such as the numbers can be called)passes as it surely must. Tony >> Tony - you certainly say a lot that I think holds true in the above. Thefollowing is not meant to be an argument, just a bit of a different takeonthe subject that seems not go away - cane vs. graphite. Bought a 4-piece, 9-ft graphite blank from the Powell Co sometime inthe earlyto mid 80's, if I remember correctly. It was advertised as beingdesigned forseveral line weights. I assembled the rod with a too-slim handgrasp thattiredmy hand after a short while of casting. So, set it aside, mostly forgotaboutit and then came across it a few weeks ago. Replaced the handgrasp andto mysurprise, have a rod that really feels good to cast. It is a bit lighterthancane, about like a hollow-built rod of mine, but has heft and it sagsunderits own weight when held horizontal, about like cane . It's cast isdelightful with either a 4 or a 5 weight DT floating line, and almostfeelslike a parabolic (or semi-parabolic) action. It casts long and short, laysout a straight line and dosn't wiggle, waggle or bounce while doing so. Thelonger the cast, the more it keeps bending, right on down into the bottomofits 24-in butt section. Sound familiar? But this is old graphite, beforethefly rod horse-power race of lighter and lighter weights with higher andhighermodulus numbers came along. Perhaps graphite development has notbeen marketdriven, but marketing driven. Either way, I think somthing wasdefinitelylost along the way as this rod attests. Regards,Richard I hear that sort of thing a fair bit when talking to people who've been fishing a while. They either say what you said about early graphite or a good glass rod and that is why cane intrests them. They liked the action.Not to sure where this will lead though. Either these guys will become thiner on the ground as time goes by or the graphite makers will turn full circle and start making rods like this again. Either way as long as cane is available there'll always be interest in cane rods to some extent. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Mar 12 09:29:12 1998 0500 Subject: Oops...Graphite, etc. Sorry, I think I accidentally resent my message from yesterday...I'll shut up now...Andy from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Mar 12 09:47:48 1998 (MET) Subject: [Fwd: Hand planed/ machine milled splines] Subject: Hand planed/ machine milled splines Dear Rodmakers! I read and heard a lot about bamboo rods made with millingmachines/bevelers. I know a lot of rodmakers use this technique forher rods. Myself do handplaning the tapers, but i`m also interested inother technics. I see the Webpage of Whitely Rods with a manual fora milling machine for splines - any ideas where such a machine it`sto find - finish to buy?What you think about the difference betwen handplaning and machines? Regards Stefan from tedgodfreys@erols.com Thu Mar 12 11:19:20 1998 Subject: Mail test test, test from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Thu Mar 12 12:04:58 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA052315735; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 10:02:15 -0800 Subject: RE: Varnishing over Guides Dave, You bring up a good point with replacing grips or guides etc. Thanks for the input. What I would do in the situation you described is remove the hardware, steel wool down the blank until smooth, change the cork configuration, re-wrap the hardware, and finally re-dip the entire butt section to return as original. It probably would take longer to go this route. The trouble I've sometimes experienced with wrapping over a varnishedblank is using a fingernail or tool to snug the wraps against each other. The wraps want to dig into the surface if you have much tension and it makesit tough to snug the wraps. I suppose this all depends on the type of finish used and the cure time. Spar varnish can remain soft for a long time. Poly and Oils dry faster and harder so they wouldn't be as difficult. When brushing varnish on the wraps I suppose the key is to keep thevarnish from extending onto the blank. That is when it really shows up. If on the thread only, then the transition should look great. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Thu Mar 12 12:26:49 1998 Subject: RE: Orvis Guide Spacing Formulas I would like to see these formula's. They sound like they might belongon the web site? from dhaftel@att.com Thu Mar 12 12:32:01 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 13:30:00-0500 Subject: RE: varnish 4.0.995.52 Since we're on the subject... Has anyone tried to thin Man O' War?? The manufacturer says not to doso right on the can, so I didn't. I thought it could benefit from somethinning. The stuff goes on pretty thick (carefully brushed on). Iused it on the wraps over a tung oiled blank (refinish job) and itdidn't 'alligator', but I think it would be just a bit more manageableif applied in thinner coats. ...Maybe a little paint thinner??Hmmmm.... I have to concur with John's point though. It does lend itself well torubbing and buffing. Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@frontier.net]Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 10:32 AM Subject: varnish Chris;I use Man-O-War spar varnish,available at almost every hardware andpaintstore in america. I have never cared much for polyurethane, it looks tooplasticy for me. Spar can also be rubbed out, polished and repaired easierthan poly. My .02 worth.John Channer from anglport@con2.com Thu Mar 12 13:56:10 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA22739 for Subject: Re:Thanks! At 07:19 PM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote:Joe -There are a few comments to read at - flyanglersonline.com. Thequestionnow is how you want the end product to look - original - functional Wayne,Thanks. I don't know how I missed that site but I'm now 27 wks behind andyou're the only reason I'll not fall further. THAT'S why I don't dump anye- mails before I read them! So much for ignoring a thread you're notinterested in. standardized?I have a Federal dial indicator and I'd LOVE to put a 60 deg pt on it (I'musing a depth mike now and it takes a loooong time to use). Do you knowthethread on the Starrett model (and do you have any left)? I guess it wouldbehelpful if you quoted me a price on them too since I have NO idea how muchthey go for.Thanks again,Art Port from anglport@con2.com Thu Mar 12 14:15:18 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA23955 for Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination At 10:25 PM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote:Greg,There is a 2 part formula that uses the no. of guides and the distance ofthe 1st and last (stripper) guide from the tip. I found that Orvis (you'llexcuse the expression) uses the same formula and I've used their spacingfromtheir rod building guide quite often. The formulae are tedious but if youorany one else wants them I'll post them again, if I can find 'em.Hank. Greg,I believe that formula is a Dale Clemens idea and it can be found in his"Fiberglass Rod Making" and I think it's presented again in "AdvancedCustomRodbuilding". If you can't find those and want to see it, I'll send it toyou, but I AIN'T gonna send it unless you think you might use it 'cause I'mgonna havta EXPLAIN it and I type like grass grows!Seek and ye shall find,Art from fcfp@ix.netcom.com Thu Mar 12 14:47:55 1998 ix2.ix.netcom.comvia smap (V1.3) "Marusiak, Matt" , "Mauser, John","Mellinger, George" ,"Modrovsky, Mike" ,"Molzahn, Bob" ,"Molzahn, Bob" ,Morrison John ,"Morrow, Terry" ,"Murdoch, Rob" ,"Musselman, Allan" ,"Myers, Larry" ,"Pennell, Bob" ,"Paskey, Walt" ,"Petri, Bob" , "Pugach, Joe","Reeser, Randy" ,Rod Makers List Serve ,"Romanowski, Mike" ,"Roulston, Gary" ,"Ruland, Bill" , "Rumore, Tom" ,Subject: [Fwd: INKY MOORE] CA13144BD5A4A53B1DA509C6" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- CA13144BD5A4A53B1DA509C6 -- SECOND ATTEMPT~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com --------------CA13144BD5A4A53B1DA509C6 Organization: Fred Bohls - Financial Services Subject: INKY MOORE boundary="------------34853AE8106CADB0F4F5DA04" --------------34853AE8106CADB0F4F5DA04 -- TO ALL: I have these address left over from my Legislative Chair days and knowthat all are not still active or correct. However, the news isimportant and I hope you will share it with as many TU members aspossible. Inky Moore had an accident yesterday -- falling off of his deck. It wasabout an eight foot fall. As a result he has neck injuries that willrequire surgery. They will be fusing several vertebrae tomorrow atHershey Medical Center. Please do not call until next week at the earliest. He is in quite abit of pain now and is very worried about the future. Cards, notes,letters, etc would be very appropriate. His Address: Inky MooreRoom 5234Hershey Medical Center500 Hershey DriveHershey, PA ABOVE ALL, HE NEEDS YOUR PRAYERS...... If you have questions, please feel free to call but this is about all toknow at this point. I'll try and keep you updated as we know more. Fred Bohls, President Cumberland Valley Chapter, TU~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011- 9698Office: (717) 732-2448Fax: (717) 732-2414e-mail: fcfp@ix.netcom.com --------------34853AE8106CADB0F4F5DA04 -- TO ALL: I have these address left over from my Legislative Chair days and know importantand I hope you will share it with as many TU members as possible. tomorrow at Hershey Medical Center. letters, etc would be very appropriate. His Address: Inky Moore Room 5234 Hershey Medical Center 500 Hershey Drive Hershey, PA ABOVE ALL, HE NEEDS YOURPRAYERS...... If you have questions, please feel free to call but this is about all Fred Bohls, President Cumberland Valley Chapter, TU~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~FRED BOHLS, CFPBohls Financial ServicesP. O. Box 3303Camp Hill, PA 17011-9698 --------------34853AE8106CADB0F4F5DA04-- --------------CA13144BD5A4A53B1DA509C6-- from eestlow@srminc.com Thu Mar 12 15:29:27 1998 1997)) id862565C5.00758FC5 ; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:24:05 -0600 Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination I'd like to see the guide spacing formulae - tedious or not. Also, didn't acomputer program for guide spacing come with Wayne's book? (I'moperating from memory here, book's at home) -Ed from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Mar 12 15:40:48 1998 (205.236.248.247) Subject: Re: Para Tapers I think the you must imagine not a whole parabola but a half parabola andyouare holding the (apex?), it then makes sense. The apex is light and the tipisheavy causing most of the flexing down at the butt end, not as you aresuggestingTerry CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: The term parabolic might have more to do with the profile of the rodthenthe shape of the stress curve. With arrows the term parabolic meansthickin the middle and thinner at each end. This is used so the feather quillslie below the profile of the arrow which allows it to slide across theshelf with less resistance and jump. Anyway, I've always linked thetermparabolic as describing the shape of the rod being relatively largerdiameter in the middle, which does result in a U-shaped stress curve. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Thu Mar 12 15:43:20 1998 with ESMTP id 260 for ;Thu, 12 Mar 1998 15:46:54 -0600 Subject: Test (sorry!) 123 from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Mar 12 16:29:10 1998 (206.186.6.183) Subject: Re: para tapers True parabolic rods have clubby tips and are almost straight from theferruleto thegrip. Most of the action is in the lower half of the rod.I once made a replacement tip for a Pezon parabolic rod and it measuredout likeoneof my bamboo bottom rods, yet was rated for a 5 wt. which it could handleGarrison tapers are not parabolic and are neither a dry fly taper. They areinbetween and offer no advantage at all. I find them to be limp.I am a dry fly taper man but I must admit that a true Parabolic taper is atoolandprobably could be developed further because they came at just about theend ofthebamboo era.A.J. Thramer is really into Parabolics and is knocking out some greatstuff, andisthe guy to answer the questionsTerry Matt Clifford wrote: TSmithwick wrote: Everett Garrison takescredit for coining the term "parabolic", when he explained to Ritz thatthestress curve for an untapered beam, supported on one end and loaded ontheother would be a parabola. Okay, I generally prefer to be a lurker, but I'll chime in here. When Ifirst went to the taper archive and began looking at stress curves, Ifoundwhat Isaw there to be completely at odds with what I thought I knew about thesubject.This is because my knowledge of stress curves came entirely from thediscussion inwhat you folks refer to as "the book." When Garrison talked about a"parabolic"curve, he was apparently talking about the slope of a curve whichdescendsdownward and to the left throughout the length of the rod, forming halfof aparabola with its apex (or whatever you call it) at the butt end of therod.Sucha curve is steepest in the tip section, and gradually flattens out towardthebutt. Garrison viewed his own tapers as a compromise between thisparaboliccurveat one extreme, and a simple straight line sloping down and to the left attheother. It doesn't seem to have occurred to him that a stress curve couldmoveupand down along its length instead of sloping down and to the left.(All ofthisisspelled out on pages 227- 28 of the Garrison/Carmichael book.) This isn't what one sees in the stress curves in the taper archives atall.There, the parabolic rods all have stress curves with U- shapeddepressions inthemiddle of them which are shaped like -- guess what - - parabolas. I haveseenrodmakers on this list state that this U-shaped depression is the sourceoftheterm "parabolic." It's pretty clear to me that the list rodmakers are right, andGarrison'sconcept of the parabolic curve must have been wrong. After all, thecurves oftheP&M and Young rods DO have U-shapes in them. And if I understand thewholeconcept, a rod with the kind of curve Garrison describes wouldn't flexdeeplyinto the butt, like parabolics do. But unless I'm mistaken, Garrison is the guy who came up with thewhole of analyzing rods via stress curves in the first place, and it's his maththatHexrod and the like are using. How could the guy who INVENTED thewhole thinghave been so mistaken about this? from GRZLYHKL@delphi.com Thu Mar 12 17:07:16 1998 Thu,12 Mar 1998 17:56:52 EST Subject: buffing dry rod varnish Folks: I'm new to this list a week or two ago, and pretty much an amateurat cane, but I have a question regarding finishing. I'm in theprocess of revarnishing a rod, and wnat to take the high gloss off. Have you any hints on taking the shine off the varnish? It hasbeen suggested to me that Rottenstone or Pumice, used with water orparrafin oil, will take off the gloss slightly but not damage thefinish. Do any of you do this or do you recommend against it? Regards, John BreslinGrzlyhkl@delphi.com from david.j.rogers@intel.com Thu Mar 12 17:40:01 1998 Subject: RE: Fast Tapers for Graphite users My heroes of the golden age are not the small custom builders but large rod shops such as Heddon. They supplied thousands of quality rods to the masses and they made a lot of money.I spend more time on developing equipment than building rods because I find rodmaking increasingly to be a chore.Terry Rodmakers, So, who is going to be the Heddon of the next century? I think the time is right for a retro resurgence of production rods. A $12 cane rod at the turn of the 19th century could sell for $200 today adjusted for inflation (3% per year). A $200 production cane rod could possibly snarf up a fairly large chunk of the mid-range graphite market. This would have to be a no-frills, 2-or-3- models-to-select- from type of outfit. Maybe a $300 rod could compete in the same market space. Parts could conceivably be had for ~$50. With the right equipment like Terry talks about, labor could be kept to a minimum, not to exceed say ~$50 per rod. Add a little overhead. Cringe on the retail markup of ~40%. Pump out 5,000 rods a year and you have a nice little million dollar a year enterprise. 5,000 rods in 50 major U.S. markets is only 100 rods per market per year. So, can it be done? I've been dreaming this for a couple years. Anyone want to shoot holes in the idea? Might be scary for a list of custom builders to consider but it would most likely add a whole lot of exposure to the custom cane market. David Rogers from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Thu Mar 12 17:58:57 1998 with SMTP id AAA18699 for ;Thu, 12 Mar 1998 23:58:12 +0000 Subject: Dial indicator/depth gauge RAA20740 Hi all! Quick question... Where does one get a depth gauge without getting a gunheldto one's head? I've been surfing the www and the prices vary so much itgetsconfusing. Also, none of the manufacturers seem to deal with the 60deg.tipneeded for measuring planing forms. Any ideas? Thanks in advance... Dennis Haftel from stpete@netten.net Thu Mar 12 18:25:11 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id SAA09426 for Subject: Test - discard test from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Mar 12 18:29:05 1998 Subject: Heddon rods Terry,If you like Heddon rods or anyone else does I have a Petrie Special for salewill entertain all offers. 3 pc 2 tips all full lenght cardboard tube. rodis in excellent condition.Bret from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Mar 12 19:13:23 1998 Subject: test/no subject from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Mar 12 19:29:41 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Test-Don't read This is a test. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth! from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 12 19:38:36 1998 Subject: test is there anybody out there? just a test, no mail all day from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Mar 12 19:59:15 1998 Fri, 13 Mar 1998 09:59:02 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: test test from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Mar 12 20:19:05 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Testing again, sorry! Harry Boyd wrote: This is a test. Sorry for the waste of bandwidth! from FlyfishT@aol.com Thu Mar 12 20:22:18 1998 Subject: Re: "Forms" website addition from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Mar 12 20:32:02 1998 Subject: Re: I'm Baaaaacck.... Tom,You missed a lot of bandwidth about place names and some kiwi namedJosiewho was somewhat profane as to his being on the list-you can guess whatthatproduced! For the rest check the archives.Glad you're back.Hank. from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Mar 12 21:06:01 1998 (204.50.77.70) Subject: Re: PHY Driggs River Young impregnated his cane and unless you can discover what he used,copies willnot be very authentic.Terry CA Lucker wrote: I don't know about the kids or Summers, but I know that Paul Youngchanged histapers quite a bit -- well, relatively a lot in bamboo rod terms. I know that many of PHY's changes may have been induced by hiswrestling withthirstiness while building rods, but most of his changes are likely to beattributed to his change in taper tastes. Also, don't rule out the fact that PHY used an awfully large diametercutter.The larger the cutter, the further away from the cutter contact area thehold-downs must be. That makes it harder to make identical strips. Add tothisthe fact that PHY was a production shop trying to make rods quickly, andyouget mistakes thrown in with the deliberate changes. Chris Lucker from WILHELM.RON@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Thu Mar 12 21:17:18 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:13:04 -0500 Subject: Re: Para 14 Taper -Reply George; Thank you! Ron W. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Mar 12 21:43:42 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users In a message dated 98-03-11 22:43:54 EST, you write: Hi Hank - Assembled an eight-foot, 2-pc, # 5 from a Sage "ModerateAction"blank for a relative in the mid 80's. To me, it is still a nice casting rod.The Moderate Action blank had fiberglass in the butt section along withgraphite. Regards. Richard from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Mar 12 22:49:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: If you must flame Terry,Propane can be fierce unless you keep it moving. Some on the listsuggestburning 'til the enamel crinkles which is O.K 'cept that on some parts of agiven strip the enamel won't crinkle and if you slow the pass down to dosoyou end up carbonizing the strip. I vary the speed according to the depthandthickness of the strip-this is all a S.W.A.G. (simple wild assed guess) butit's worked for me for the last 15 years (I carbonized a few before I got itright).Regards,Hank. from gwr@seanet.com Thu Mar 12 22:57:33 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA06312 for; Subject: Test - ignore please Sorry to waste bandwidth. No messages all day from either you guys oranyone else. Strange, if true. from WILHELM.RON@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Thu Mar 12 23:01:38 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 12 Mar 1998 12:23:03 -0500 Subject: Para 14 Taper -Reply George; thanks for the info. Ron from bairdart@burgoyne.com Fri Mar 13 00:09:29 1998 Subject: add to listserv what has hppened and why i was removed from the list. Thanks, Bob Baird from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Fri Mar 13 07:15:34 1998 with ESMTP id 281 for ;Fri, 13 Mar 1998 07:19:15 -0600 Subject: Test Sorry about this but I have not received messages from the list for 24hrs. I resubscribed yesterday afternoon but still nothing so Iresubscribed again this morning.....I just dont want to miss even onevaluable post! Jim Kubichek from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Mar 13 08:03:59 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Help! Friends, Is the list down, or ami I stuck in a cyberspace never never land. I haveunsubscribed and re-subscribed to no avail. Please forward any ideas tofbcwin@fsbnet.com Thank you!Harry from bairdart@burgoyne.com Fri Mar 13 08:26:42 1998 Subject: Test Trying to reconnect to list. Help from donkovach@email.msn.com Fri Mar 13 08:41:14 1998 SMTPSVC;Fri, 13 Mar 1998 06:40:42 -0800 Subject: TEST MESSAGE boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01BD4E64.26314060" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BD4E64.26314060 1.2.3. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BD4E64.26314060 1.2.3. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BD4E64.26314060-- from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri Mar 13 10:08:08 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id KAA13136 for Subject: Building a 5 section Pack Rod I have decided to build a 5 section 8 ft. rod so I can fish my favorite typerodany where I go. I am going to make the ferrules out of graphite because mycalculations on flex show that this material closely matches bamboocharacteristics. This rod will have nodes and my graphite reinforcedhollowing (I am now using high strength, medium modulus strands that come in a"tow" ( kindof a non twisted rope product ). I will let the list know how it turns out. Ifyou have any suggestions/comments let me know. Bryant C. from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Fri Mar 13 13:00:31 1998 (MET) Subject: Rutenbauer-Treffen NAA06591 (To all german speaking rodmakers:appeal to organise a "german rodmakersmeeting) An alle deutschsprachigen Rutenbauer v. Gespliessten! Wieso nicht einmal nach dem Vorbild unserer US-Kollegen ein deutsch- sprachiges Treffen "ô la grayrock" organisieren?Ziel:Gedanken und Erfahrungsaustausch von Profis wie Amateuren.Dauer? Ort: Deutschland/Oesterreich od. Schweiz., moeglichstan einem Fischwasser ( der arme Paechter!).Fèr die Schweiz wèrde ich mich als Organisator/Koordinator anbieten,selbstverst€ndlich ist Hilfe jederzeit willkommen!Bitte leiten Sie dieses Mail/diese Idee an Ihre Kollegen weiter! Meine Anschrift lautet:Stefan GrauBrunnadernstrasse 11Berne/SwitzerlandE-mail: gespliesst@bluewin.choder grau@BuchLang.com from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Mar 13 13:03:36 1998 1997)) id862565C6.006833DE ; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 12:58:10 -0600 Subject: test - don't read Life is a test. It is only a test. If this had been an actual life, youwould have been instructed on where to go and what to do. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Mar 13 13:13:03 1998 0700 Subject: Test from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Fri Mar 13 13:46:08 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);13 Mar 98 14:50:03 EST EST Subject: Thanks for the input Hello all,I just wanted to say thank you for all of the helpful replies to my questions about refinishing my old South Bend 3 pc. Still haven't decided what finish to use, but I'm sure the availability of products at the local hardware store will help me narrow the decision. Thanks again!Joe Mulvey from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Mar 13 15:44:58 1998 Subject: Re: If you must flame In a message dated 3/13/98 1:09:26 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: Propane can be fierce unless you keep it moving. Some on the listsuggestburning 'til the enamel crinkles which is O.K 'cept that on some parts ofagiven strip the enamel won't crinkle and if you slow the pass down to dosoyou end up carbonizing the strip. I vary the speed according to the depthandthickness of the strip-this is all a S.W.A.G. (simple wild assed guess)butit's worked for me for the last 15 years (I carbonized a few before I gotitright). I flame a whole half culm at a time. Makes it easier to split, and thereis a greater latitude before anything gets carbonized. More mass means there is greater heat adsorption and dissipation.. Darryl Hayashida from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Fri Mar 13 15:57:00 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id VAA15247 for; Fri, 13 Mar 1998 21:39:08 +0100 (CET) Subject: Did miss something? Hello everybody Due to a minor computerproblem :-( I've been out of cirkulation for a fewdays. If anyone by accident have posted anything to me, please re-post as Ihaven't been able to receive mails. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from sats@gte.net Fri Mar 13 16:32:02 1998 Subject: Re: life after list QAA19752 It is not a weakness to take a break and the list will go on. Memberswith just as much knowledge can step in to fill the void.This list or any list for that matter is not real life and should not betreated as such.Terry Terry, You're mellowing with old age??? Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Mar 13 16:39:48 1998 Subject: Re: Did miss something? QAA20456 I think many of us were in the same boat.Gary At 09:36 PM 3/13/98 +0100, you wrote:Hello everybody Due to a minor computerproblem :-( I've been out of cirkulation for a fewdays. If anyone by accident have posted anything to me, please re-post asIhaven't been able to receive mails. Best regards Carsten Jorgensen from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Mar 13 16:41:43 1998 OAA08381 Subject: Re: Thanks! Art - I have a couple of dial indicators and just bought a new Starrett 60Ÿpoint. It fits fine on both. Don't know what the thread size is. Cost wasabout$3.50. The shipping cost more than the point.Hope this helps. Chris Wohlford -------------------------------------------------------------------------Art Port wrote: At 07:19 PM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote:Joe -There are a few comments to read at - flyanglersonline.com. Thequestionnow is how you want the end product to look - original - functional Wayne,Thanks. I don't know how I missed that site but I'm now 27 wks behindandyou're the only reason I'll not fall further. THAT'S why I don't dump anye-mails before I read them! So much for ignoring a thread you're notinterested in. standardized?I have a Federal dial indicator and I'd LOVE to put a 60 deg pt on it (I'musing a depth mike now and it takes a loooong time to use). Do you knowthethread on the Starrett model (and do you have any left)? I guess it wouldbehelpful if you quoted me a price on them too since I have NO idea howmuchthey go for.Thanks again,Art Port from cgriffin@selway.umt.edu Fri Mar 13 16:44:43 1998 15:44:40 -0700 Subject: Re: life after list Does anyone have a source for silk Jasper thread? Thanks! Cary GriffinMissoula-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: life after list It is not a weakness to take a break and the list will go on. Memberswith just as much knowledge can step in to fill the void.This list or any list for that matter is not real life and should not betreated as such.Terry Terry, You're mellowing with old age??? Terry K. Safety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Fri Mar 13 16:49:45 1998 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?RE=3A_Starrett_60=B0_point?= QAA21120 Who did you order these from? -----Original Message-----From: C.J. Wohlford [SMTP:flyrod@artistree.com]Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 2:45 PM Subject: Re: Thanks! Art - I have a couple of dial indicators and just bought a newStarrett 60Ÿpoint. It fits fine on both. Don't know what the thread size is.Cost was about$3.50. The shipping cost more than the point.Hope this helps. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Mar 13 16:56:26 1998 Subject: Web page for tapers am still pursuing the idea of a "standard" taper page.In response to Hank, who suggests that a complete definition that wouldcatagorize every rod would be difficult. I agree with this. I think what weshould do is offer a general description of what the type of taper is about,and then offer some tapers that fit squarely in the middle of thedefinition,complete with stress and gauge charts that illustrate the definition. Mychoices would include the Para 15, and the Pezon & Michel parabolicespeciale from the web page. I would like to include the Payne 7'9" parabolic also,butthe taper looks strange to me. Jerry and Reed, could you check your notes?Point 45 looks out of whack to me, are you sure it should not be .217insteadof .207? The middle of the rod is a strange place for a flat spot in thetaper, and a stress peak in a parabolic.I have never liked the term Semi-Parabolic, which seems to me confusingandnon-descriptive. I would prefer "progressive", and would like to see a pagealso for "fast" tapers. Any suggestions for other taper categories thatcouldbe solidly defined? from david.j.rogers@intel.com Fri Mar 13 16:57:14 1998 Subject: RE: Fast Tapers for Graphite users My heroes of the golden age are not the small custom builders but large rod shops such as Heddon. They supplied thousands of quality rods to the masses and they made a lot of money.I spend more time on developing equipment than building rodsbecause I find rodmaking increasingly to be a chore.Terry Rodmakers, So, who is going to be the Heddon of the next century? I wonder if the time is right for a retro resurgence of production rods. Good economic prosperity and a growing 'boomer and beyond market' thatis looking to re- create the security and joys of their past (hey, VWhas just put my 1965 VW bug back in vogue). A $12 cane rod at the turn of the 19th century would sell for $200 today adjusted for inflation (3% per year). A $200 production cane rod could conceivably snag up a chunk of the mid-range graphite market. This would have to be a no-frills, 2-or-3-models- to-select- from type of outfit. Looking for moremargin, maybe a $300 rod could compete just as successfully in the samemarket space (would you pay $300 for a modern-day heddon?). With the right equipment like Terry talks about, parts and laborcould be kept to a minimum (say ~$100/rod); add a little overhead; then cringe on the retail markup. Pump out 5,000 rods a year and you have a nice little milliondollar a year enterprise. 5,000 rods in 50 major U.S. markets is only 100rods per market per year. Question is, could the market bear 5,000 rodsa year? If not (or if it could bear more), what is that number? So, can it be done? I've been dreaming this for a couple years. Could it work? A production manufacturer would likely add a wholelot of exposure to the total cane rod market, growing the market forall. Dreaming of making it big while I do the grind, David Rogers from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Mar 13 17:07:13 1998 Subject: Re: life after list RO>Does anyone have a source for silk Jasper thread? RO>Thanks! RO>Cary GriffinRO>Missoula Yes, Try http:/www.belvoirdale.com But you won't get what you order. Belvoirdale claims to have 100/3 (3/0)and 50/3 (00/A) silk jasper thread in both 50 yd and 100 yd spools.You'll get 50 yds if pay for 100 yds and if you order the 3/0 you'll getthe same thick stuff as if you ordered the larger thread. But I guess when he runs out of what he's got, we'll be glad to haveanything at all. Also, be prepared to wait 3 - 4 weeks for delivery too. ALL IMHO, Don Burns from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 13 17:29:08 1998 0000 Subject: Production rods The production rod thinking has been on my mind a while also, hencebevelers etc. A production rod of the current time frame would have tobe MUCH better than the production rods of years past. The confines ofusing Al hardware, stamped ferrules, POOR cork and all to meet a pricelevel would alienate much of the market that you are trying to reach. I believe that combining VALUE with AVAILABILITY is the key. When westart applying manufacturing methods of the 1950's to the current art ofrod building instead of glorifying the 'one true method' as the onlyaethetically acceptable way of providing a product to a consumer marketincreasingly satiated only by the instant gratification most of themarket dissapears. It is a problem of supply not demand, when bamboo isavailable at a REASONABLE price 'off the shelf' at the majority of localfly shops I believe that the demand will follow. The trend in bamboo lately has been divergent,as it should be, withreasonably priced production type rods available from some builders,often at a great cost to the builders time and energy(making aproduction type rod without production type eqipment labor costs etc.)and some pricey one off custom work from many others. These twoapproaches are historically correct. I do not htink that bamboo will ever be taken too seriously until weas rodbuilders can offer the variety of choice and supply mustered bythe plastic guys. We also need to teach the angler to cast instead ofthrow. A.J.Thramer from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Mar 13 18:14:41 1998Received: from Subject: Re: Web page for tapers TSmithwick wrote: Any suggestions for other taper categories that couldbe solidly defined? "Slow," "Historic, but Not fer Shit," " Wet Fly," "Very Fast," "Dry Fly." Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Mar 13 18:22:29 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Cane rods of today represent the best flyrods (of any construction) everbuilt. The production is primarily a cottage industry, and I don'tthink that just passable split-cane rods for cheap will do any one anygood. That's what graphite, and probably fiberglass, are best at.Rick's rods could start something if they start putting together somegood glass rods for the masses from their pieces and parts, but caneworks best when it has blood and sweat in it fom the maker, who is proudenough to sign it as a work of great skill, if not art. It may soundcorny, but the best cane rods are in the realm of art as surely asturned work, one-off cabinetry, and other fine crafts are. My opinion. Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Mar 13 18:25:57 1998 Subject: Re: jasper thread boundary="------------4E01BBA88DA23AFA8F39B1C7" --------------4E01BBA88DA23AFA8F39B1C7 I ordered some black and green jasper silk and some matching black andmatching green silk from Belvoirdale. Well, the black was a prettyclose match, the green was miles off. Caveat emptor. Brian --------------4E01BBA88DA23AFA8F39B1C7 I ordered some black and green jasper silk and some matching black and emptor. Brian --------------4E01BBA88DA23AFA8F39B1C7-- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Mar 13 18:26:15 1998 Sat, 14 Mar 1998 08:25:48 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Production rods On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: The production rod thinking has been on my mind a while also, hencebevelers etc. A production rod of the current time frame would have tobe MUCH better than the production rods of years past. The confines ofusing Al hardware, stamped ferrules, POOR cork and all to meet a pricelevel would alienate much of the market that you are trying to reach. I believe that combining VALUE with AVAILABILITY is the key. When westart applying manufacturing methods of the 1950's to the current art ofrod building instead of glorifying the 'one true method' as the onlyaethetically acceptable way of providing a product to a consumer marketincreasingly satiated only by the instant gratification most of themarket dissapears. It is a problem of supply not demand, when bamboo isavailable at a REASONABLE price 'off the shelf' at the majority of localfly shops I believe that the demand will follow. The trend in bamboo lately has been divergent,as it should be, withreasonably priced production type rods available from some builders,often at a great cost to the builders time and energy(making aproduction type rod without production type eqipment labor costs etc.)and some pricey one off custom work from many others. These twoapproaches are historically correct. I do not htink that bamboo will ever be taken too seriously until weas rodbuilders can offer the variety of choice and supply mustered bythe plastic guys. We also need to teach the angler to cast instead ofthrow. A.J.Thramer If you're after the mass market forget what matters and concentrate on what the guys selling the gear in the stores like, that way they'll talk about the gear all day. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection/***********************************************************************/ from anglport@con2.com Fri Mar 13 18:32:42 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA17477 for Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination At 09:15 PM 3/11/98 -0800, you wrote:Hank,I for one would appreciate this being posted. I have always found myselffeelinga little lost here. ThanksChris W. -------------------------------------------------------------- Hank,Sure wish I had a scanner....Here goes, and I hope this isn't plagiarism. According to Dale Clemens youcan space your guides using the formula: B = n(t) + n(n-1)d-------2 where: B = the distance from the tip to the guide being placedn = the no of guides being placedt = the distance from the tip to the first guide It is a given that the first guide is placed 4 to 5" from the tipand the stripper (last) is placed 28" to 32" from the base of the reel seat.These are not etched in stone, they are just nos to get you started.The first thing we need to calculate is the "d", a constant for therod we are currently working on. This is the first step for any new set ofdimensions.As an example I'll use a 9' rod. You can opt to use a no of guidesthat equals the length of the rod in feet or one more or two more(if youselect badly you get a guide-on-the-ferrule, not a happy result of all thesecalculations)! tip-top-to-first-guide-distance of 4 1/2" (t=4.5), and a 30" distancefromthe butt of the rod to the stripper (last guide). Since this is a 9' rod (108") we subtract the 30 from the 108 andarrive at a guide "spread" of 78".The formula now becomes: 78 = 11(4.5) + 11(11-1)d---------2 and d=.52We now can use the customized-to-our-particular-rod formula. Guide 1 1(4.5) + 1(0)0.52 = 4.5"--------2 Guide 2 2(4.5) + 2(1)0.52 = 9.5"--------2 Guide 3 3(4.5) + 3(2)0.52 = 15.1"--------2 Guide 4 4(4.5) + 4(3)0.52 = 21.1"--------2 and so on with subsequent guides sitting at: 27.7"34.8"42.4"50.6"59.2"68.4" and78.1" length, the no of guides, the tiptop placement site, and thebutt-to-stripper distance. That "d" will enable the builder to place theguides in their best approximate settings for that blank.Dale Clemens gave credit to a Jeffrey Baehre of Depew NY fordeveloping the formula. I've shown the formula to any no of fellows I'vetaught to build rods and some are initially intimidated by its seemingcomplexity, but if you'll noodle around with it for 2 rod lengths you'll seethat it's quite straightforward and actually "proves" itself by thestripper's landing at the very spot you selected for it in the first place!It's also a process that ought to lend itself to a quick-and-dirty computerprogram. Once in awhile you'll find a length which pays you back by landingthat damn guide SMACK on the ferrule; all you have to do is add one moreoruse one less guide for that length.The idea is to have a place to tape all your guides initially andthen you can move them around to "perfect" your design. I seldom have tomove any at all. Let me know if something doesn't make sense,Art from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 13 18:36:32 1998 0000 Subject: Re: varnish Haftel, Dennis, CT wrote: Since we're on the subject... Has anyone tried to thin Man O' War?? The manufacturer says not to doso right on the can, so I didn't. I thought it could benefit from somethinning. The stuff goes on pretty thick (carefully brushed on). Iused it on the wraps over a tung oiled blank (refinish job) and itdidn't 'alligator', but I think it would be just a bit more manageableif applied in thinner coats. ...Maybe a little paint thinner??Hmmmm.... I have to concur with John's point though. It does lend itself well torubbing and buffing. Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: john channer [SMTP:channer@frontier.net]Sent: Wednesday, March 11, 1998 10:32 AM Subject: varnish Chris;I use Man-O-War spar varnish,available at almost every hardware andpaintstore in america. I have never cared much for polyurethane, it looks tooplasticy for me. Spar can also be rubbed out, polished and repairedeasierthan poly. My .02 worth.John Channer It will run badly if you thin it too much. Try 10% VM&P naptha insteadof paint thinner. Much better results.A.J.Thramer from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Mar 13 18:38:00 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods I do not htink that bamboo will ever be taken too seriously until weas rodbuilders can offer the variety of choice and supply mustered bythe plastic guys. We also need to teach the angler to cast instead ofthrow.A.J.Thramer A.J.- You've been at this much longer than I have, so maybe I don't have roomto talk,(but WHEN has that ever stopped me?)however, customers wait forcustom houses, driftboats, sailboats, strip or cedar and canvas canoes,stocks for Parkers and Krieghoff's, and on and on. Some things can't berushed for really good reasons. It seems to me that the good used rod lists don't have any troubleselling-out very quickly. Maybe its the way cane rods are sold that needssome adjustment. How about building a quiver full of rods and thenadvertising them for sale, say in march, rather than dribbling the rods outand making people order a year or two out for a custom rod? Then youcouldturn out rods like flies, one at a time, but in batches. Build, say, a halfdozen para 15's at a pop, re-tool and crank out some light salmon rods;change the set- up again and make some 7'5" dry fly poles. I betproductivity would go up, quality would not suffer and could improve, andyou'd have the product availabe for the buyer when he's raring to go. Brian from anglport@con2.com Fri Mar 13 18:38:24 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA18211 for Subject: Re: Thanks! and thanks again! SAA28996 Chris, I'll have to get in touch with them.Art At 02:44 PM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote:Art - I have a couple of dial indicators and just bought a new Starrett60Ÿpoint. It fits fine on both. Don't know what the thread size is. Cost wasabout$3.50. The shipping cost more than the point.Hope this helps. Chris Wohlford -------------------------------------------------------------------------Art Port wrote: At 07:19 PM 3/11/98 EST, you wrote:Joe -There are a few comments to read at - flyanglersonline.com. Thequestionnow is how you want the end product to look - original - functional Wayne,Thanks. I don't know how I missed that site but I'm now 27 wks behindandyou're the only reason I'll not fall further. THAT'S why I don't dump anye-mails before I read them! So much for ignoring a thread you're notinterested in. standardized?I have a Federal dial indicator and I'd LOVE to put a 60 deg pt on it (I'musing a depth mike now and it takes a loooong time to use). Do you knowthethread on the Starrett model (and do you have any left)? I guess itwould behelpful if you quoted me a price on them too since I have NO idea howmuchthey go for.Thanks again,Art Port from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 13 18:40:21 1998 0000 Subject: Mass Market I believe that 'mass market' and 'reasonable supply' have been confused.A.J.Thramer from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Mar 13 18:45:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Web page for tapers In a message dated 3/14/98 12:15:59 AM, you wrote: Ummm --- OK, do you want to supply the definitions? from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 13 18:55:13 1998 0000 Subject: Brian You have several good points, I do indeed build the rods and send themout in batches. I split them up between Codella and Corsetti. I amalways turning down requests from dealers to supply them with moreproduct however. I believe that the reason that the rodlists sell outquickly is for exactly the reason that I stated in the original message.A purchaser can call, order the rod and recieve it without the vagariesthat have invaded the business from time to time concerningdeposits,delivery time, and model selection. I would add that I do not solicit retail orders much, I prefer to workthrough dealers. One on one sales leads to special requests and thelike, all of which serves to slow me way down. I can achieve goodquality and sell the rods for a modest sum only by building 'standardrods' not one special order after another. A.J.Thramer from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Mar 13 19:33:18 1998 RAA14676 Subject: Re: Starrett 60Ÿ point Dean,Try the following: 1) L S Starrett CompanyPhone: 978-249-3551Web Site: http://www.qualitymag.com/starrett/Call for catalog or reseller locations 2) MSC Direct (Starrett Dealer)Phone: 1-800-332-0210Web Site: http://www.mscdirect.com/ 3) JW Donson (Starrett Dealer w/ Large Inventory)Phone: 773-261-2865 Bought mine through JW Donson. Hope this message comes through OK. Beenhaving formating problems. If not, try anything that looks like a Phone #on this email. Chris Wohlford ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Burrill, Dean wrote: Who did you order these from? -----Original Message-----From: C.J. Wohlford [SMTP:flyrod@artistree.com]Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 2:45 PM Subject: Re: Thanks! Art - I have a couple of dial indicators and just bought a newStarrett 60Ÿ point. It fits fine on both. Don't know what the thread sizeis.Cost was about $3.50. The shipping cost more than the point.Hope thishelps. from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Mar 13 19:44:55 1998 RAA22488 Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination Art,Holy Cow! Now I know what I'm doing this weekend. Thank you for the info. Chris Wohlford -------------------------------------------------------------- Hank,Sure wish I had a scanner....Here goes, and I hope this isn't plagiarism. According to Dale Clemensyoucan space your guides using the formula: B = n(t) + n(n-1)d-------2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- from anglport@con2.com Fri Mar 13 19:53:31 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA00272 for Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination Hank,Enjoy, and good luck!Art At 05:47 PM 3/13/98 -0800, you wrote:Art,Holy Cow! Now I know what I'm doing this weekend. Thank you for theinfo. Chris Wohlford -------------------------------------------------------------- Hank,Sure wish I had a scanner....Here goes, and I hope this isn't plagiarism. According to Dale Clemensyoucan space your guides using the formula: B = n(t) + n(n-1)d-------2 --------------------------------------------------------------------- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Mar 13 20:00:56 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Guide spacing determination Right on, Art! Couldn't have done it better myself.Hank. from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Mar 13 20:04:17 1998 (205.236.248.101) Subject: Re: Production rods Tony,hand planing and the 'book' is strictly for amateur rodmaking. I know thatthis list revolves around the Garrison method but it is just not possibletoproduce enough output.We are not looking for the 'mass market' just 10% would be too much!We could not support a solid trend to bamboo because 99% of allrodmakers arehand planers and work alone.The market is crying out for production rods, this would bring cane to theaverage angler without him having to resort to tarted up junk.Do not let the word 'production' spell bad rods. Lets face it if Garrisonwasto attend a rodmakers gathering and bring one of his rods I do not thinktheywould be very well received. Poor cork and roughly turned aluminum seathardwear would not cut it today.Payne was a production rod maker an you cannot fault his work.Terry Tony Young wrote: On Fri, 13 Mar 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: The production rod thinking has been on my mind a while also, hencebevelers etc. A production rod of the current time frame would have tobe MUCH better than the production rods of years past. The confines ofusing Al hardware, stamped ferrules, POOR cork and all to meet a pricelevel would alienate much of the market that you are trying to reach.I believe that combining VALUE with AVAILABILITY is the key. Whenwestart applying manufacturing methods of the 1950's to the current artofrod building instead of glorifying the 'one true method' as the onlyaethetically acceptable way of providing a product to a consumermarketincreasingly satiated only by the instant gratification most of themarket dissapears. It is a problem of supply not demand, when bambooisavailable at a REASONABLE price 'off the shelf' at the majority of localfly shops I believe that the demand will follow.The trend in bamboo lately has been divergent,as it should be, withreasonably priced production type rods available from some builders,often at a great cost to the builders time and energy(making aproduction type rod without production type eqipment labor costs etc.)and some pricey one off custom work from many others. These twoapproaches are historically correct.I do not htink that bamboo will ever be taken too seriously until weas rodbuilders can offer the variety of choice and supply mustered bythe plastic guys. We also need to teach the angler to cast instead ofthrow.A.J.Thramer If you're after the mass market forget what matters and concentrate onwhat the guys selling the gear in the stores like, that way they'll talkabout the gear all day. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Mar 13 20:42:39 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods Terence Ackland wrote:Do not let the word 'production' spell bad rods. Lets face it if Garrisonwasto attend a rodmakers gathering and bring one of his rods I do not thinktheywould be very well received. Poor cork and roughly turned aluminumseathardwear would not cut it today.Payne was a production rod maker an you cannot fault his work.Terry Terry,You're much more fun when I can disagree with you! Unfortunately, Ithink you are absolutely right, not only about Garrison, but about themis- understanding of "production rods". Payne, Thomas, Leonard, Edwards,Hawes (few, alas, but the intent was there), etc., were all ProductionRods. What we need today are rods like the high end Edwards Bristols(F-12 and up). The tapers of these rods were superb, the fittings wereadequate, and the prices were, well, $12 dollars and up (probably rightabout $200+, 1998 dollars).Bevelers were a superb means of producing rods, a single set ofmetalpatterns gave endless flexibility, and you could manage curves thatwould be impossible with a planing form. I had half a dozen F.E. Thomasbutts which were made on the same template, but showed wide variationintaper. Something else I noted: by making each section a standard lengthyou could cut out a section for a 2 pc or 3 pc, 7' to 8' rod, depending,of course on the taper you started with.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Mar 13 20:56:41 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Cane rods of today represent the best flyrods (of any construction) everbuilt. The production is primarily a cottage industry, and I don'tthink that just passable split-cane rods for cheap will do any one anygood. That's what graphite, and probably fiberglass, are best at.Rick's rods could start something if they start putting together somegood glass rods for the masses from their pieces and parts, but caneworks best when it has blood and sweat in it fom the maker, who isproudenough to sign it as a work of great skill, if not art. It may soundcorny, but the best cane rods are in the realm of art as surely asturned work, one-off cabinetry, and other fine crafts are. My opinion. BrianBrian,IMHO, the art is in the taper, the rest is cosmetics. (Want to try afun rod -- I'll let you try a 7'6" 5/2 Chubb "Valise Rod", it probablycost $1 new and looked unsightly with red and black imtermediates every1/2" and NS snakes. But cast it and you'll be very pleasantlysurprised!)Have you tried any of the low range, high quality rods? F.E. Thomassold the Dirigo with his name on it, this was a rod which was the equalof his best Specials, except that the cane was watermarked or had otherblemishes. With the Dirigo he used less expensive fittings than his highend rods, but they cast just as delightfully.Admittedly, when Thomas found a blank that was still serviceablebutbutt ugly, he called it a Bangor and did Not put his name on it.Cane rods of today certainly represent SOME OF the best ever made;butmost of their tapers are 50+ years old.Best regards,Reed from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Mar 13 21:11:29 1998 Subject: Re: Web page for tapers I said that sort of tongue in cheek, but we need to illustrate what'sbeen tried and was used so we know where to go. Saw an ollld HL LeonardQuad on a list about a year ago. It was one of four Hiram made early onand was trying to figure out how many strips to put together for a rod.That would fall into the HBNFS category. Garrison made some rods in theslow category that still fish well if you can appreciate the tapers (Ican't) and so on. I'd love to try one of Terry's rods that have beendescribed as very fast (for cane?), and maybe Jim Payne's #200 for a dryfly action.But, instead of me blabbing on about what I think, maybe we should picksome categories and have everyone who has an opinion ;^) to fill in therod they think of when they think of these classifications.Brian from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Mar 13 21:14:24 1998 Subject: Re: more than a handfull AJ- Can one man turn out rods at the rate needed to compete withgraphite, etc.? Brian from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Mar 13 21:24:54 1998 Subject: Re: Web page for tapers TSmithwick wrote:I would like to include the Payne 7'9" parabolic also, butthe taper looks strange to me. Jerry and Reed, could you check yournotes?Point 45 looks out of whack to me, are you sure it should not be .217insteadof .207? The middle of the rod is a strange place for a flat spot in thetaper, and a stress peak in a parabolic.Tom,I checked my notes. I have .219 on the butt side of the ferrule and.208 on the tip side. The sections are 46.5" each, ferrule size is14/64. These dimensions were taken by a friend from his rod. Note theflat spot between 30" and 40" (increments of .007 and .006), it would beeven stranger if it suddenly swelled by .013.Perhaps someone else on the list could corroborate these diameters?Best regards,Reed from mcreek@sirus.com Fri Mar 13 21:38:13 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users boundary="------------7FBB7FC3CD98D4B8E65E6FAE" --------------7FBB7FC3CD98D4B8E65E6FAE Reed- One of the nicest casting rods I've fished with was a PH Young Texana friend purchased on his way home from Korea when the Young shop wason8 mile road. He paid around $30 for it because it was a lower graderod. Only place Paul Young Rod Co. appeared was on the butt cap. And I think the science is in the taper, the art is in the execution.An ugly rod that casts great is still an ugly rod. I like bamboo forthe aesthetic, AND the feel. But without the aesthetics, nobody wouldbother making them and they would have died out the day tobacco glassrods came out. Just my opinion, but I would guess that if someone could afford to putsix talented rodmakers in a shop, gear it up with modern equipment,convince them to divide the labor, get them to build proven tapers for2040 hours a year, and direct market them for a reasonable ROI, youcould go after a nice niche market and compete with Orvis and Winston,etc. (But would you compete with their graphite or their cane rods?)It wouldn't be easy and you probably wouldn't get rich, but it would bea good way to earn a modest living. That's why a couple of the big namerod companies are still doing it.It sure would be fun. Brian --------------7FBB7FC3CD98D4B8E65E6FAE Reed- a PH Young Texan a friend purchased on his way home from Korea when the was on the butt cap. And I think the science is in the taper, the art is in aesthetics,nobody would bother making them and they would have died out the daytobaccoglass rods came out. Just my opinion, but I would guess that if someone could afford to putsix talented rodmakers in a shop, gear it up with modern equipment,convincethem to divide the labor, get them to build proven tapers for 2040 hoursa year, and direct market them for a reasonable ROI, you could go after wouldn'tbe easy and you probably wouldn't get rich, but it would be a good way companies are still doing it.It sure would be fun. Brian --------------7FBB7FC3CD98D4B8E65E6FAE-- from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Mar 13 21:56:04 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Brian & Michelle Creek wrote:And I think the science is in the taper, the art is in the execution.Brian,"Science" and "art", reminds me of an Aesthetics course onCollingwood.Great fun. I'm in software, that sure isn't Science, is it Art?(Actually, it's Magic.)I belive the makers we described (Payne, Thomas, etc.) probably didnotuse mathematical analysis in deriving their tapers, rather trial anderror; with enlightened guessing. That is more Art then Science, isn'tit?Best regards,Reed from rclarke@eou.edu Sat Mar 14 00:10:00 1998 Subject: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Re_to_C.J.:_Starrett_60=B0_point?= I don't think you can buy direct from Starret. I really like using MSC. They have a "huge" catalog, and are very fast in delivery time. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: Starrett 60Ÿ pointDate: Friday, March 13, 1998 5:36 PM Dean,Try the following: 1) L S Starrett CompanyPhone: 978-249-3551Web Site: http://www.qualitymag.com/starrett/Call for catalog or reseller locations 2) MSC Direct (Starrett Dealer)Phone: 1-800-332-0210Web Site: http://www.mscdirect.com/ 3) JW Donson (Starrett Dealer w/ Large Inventory)Phone: 773-261-2865 Bought mine through JW Donson. Hope this message comes through OK.Beenhaving formating problems. If not, try anything that looks like a Phone #on this email. Chris Wohlford ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Burrill, Dean wrote: Who did you order these from? -----Original Message-----From: C.J. Wohlford [SMTP:flyrod@artistree.com]Sent: Friday, March 13, 1998 2:45 PM Subject: Re: Thanks! Art - I have a couple of dial indicators and just bought a newStarrett 60Ÿ point. It fits fine on both. Don't know what the threadsizeis.Cost was about $3.50. The shipping cost more than the point.Hope thishelps. from gwr@seanet.com Sat Mar 14 00:16:29 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA09600 for; Subject: Restoration Photos Hi fellows, I've been working on revising and expanding my web site the past fewweeks. I finally have a draft version up in a 'hidden' file. It hasn'tbeen published to my regular company URL yet because, as you'll see if youvisit it, the images for the buttons have been refusing to show themselvesabout half the time. Still, all the links appear to be in working order.Most of you guys will want to duck past the graphite and have a look atthe "restoration services" which you can click to from the bottom of thefirst page. At the bottom of my service section is a link to a gallery ofbefore and after photos of two rods and gaff. Also, under "Tools ForAnglers" is a link to the The Colonial Angler and under that is a ColonialAngler Gallery which shows one of his rods, a fly, and braided horse- tailline. Ignore the commercial aspects as best you can and enjoy the photos-all my wife's doing. Hope you find it interesting.http://www.goldenwitch.com/Demo Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com from GRZLYHKL@delphi.com Sat Mar 14 02:21:39 1998 Fri,13 Mar 1998 19:37:23 EST Subject: buffing varnish Experts: I sent a message to the list yesterday but didn't see it posted. Must besomething wrong with the listserver, eh? Anyway, I've just revarnished a rod and before wrapping the guides I'd liketotake the glare finish off the varnish. Has anyone out there ever usedpumiceor rottenstone, either with water or parrafin oil to buff out the varnish inthis way? Any recommendations for or against? Not being an expert, Igot afew small pinprick bubbles in my varnish, even using a foam brush -perhapsworking too fast. My thought is to eliminate some of them with thebuffingas well as taking the shiny finish off. Maybe I'm way off the beam here,butI figure you experts would know. This is only my second refinishing job on cane, the other was many years ago, and so I'm a rookie. I used a sparvarnish, heated, but not thinned. Regards,John John BreslinGrzlyhkl@delphi.com from flyrod@artistree.com Sat Mar 14 02:47:28 1998 AAA27417 Subject: Re: Re to C.J.: Starrett 60Ÿ point Robert,You're right - but they can recommend resellers in your area and thecatalog isnice to have. Also MSC didn't have it in stock at the time - at any of theirstores in the entire country. Chris Wohlford--------------------------------------------------------------Robert Clarke wrote: I don't think you can buy direct from Starret. I really like using MSC.They have a "huge" catalog, and are very fast in delivery time. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from cgriffin@selway.umt.edu Sat Mar 14 07:26:17 1998 06:26:15 -0700 Subject: Re: life after list Thanks for Thread info!!!!-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: life after list RO>Does anyone have a source for silk Jasper thread? RO>Thanks! RO>Cary GriffinRO>Missoula Yes, Try http:/www.belvoirdale.com But you won't get what you order. Belvoirdale claims to have 100/3 (3/0)and 50/3 (00/A) silk jasper thread in both 50 yd and 100 yd spools.You'll get 50 yds if pay for 100 yds and if you order the 3/0 you'll getthe same thick stuff as if you ordered the larger thread. But I guess when he runs out of what he's got, we'll be glad to haveanything at all. Also, be prepared to wait 3 - 4 weeks for delivery too. ALL IMHO, Don Burns from cgriffin@selway.umt.edu Sat Mar 14 07:30:17 1998 06:30:14 -0700 Subject: Re: jasper thread boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD2E22.C33D9280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD2E22.C33D9280 Thanks for the thread info!!!-----Original Message-----From: Brian & Michelle Creek Date: Friday, March 13, 1998 5:28 PMSubject: Re: jasper thread I ordered some black and green jasper silk and some matching black =and matching green silk from Belvoirdale. Well, the black was a pretty = ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD2E22.C33D9280 Thanks for the thread =info!!! -----Original = =rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= threadI ordered some black and green jasper = Well, the black was a pretty close match, the green was miles = Brian ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD2E22.C33D9280-- from dpeaston@wzrd.com Sat Mar 14 08:06:00 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA22633; Sat, 14 Mar 199809:04:50 Subject: Re: Production rods At 09:04 PM 3/13/98 -0500, Terence Ackland wrote:Tony,hand planing and the 'book' is strictly for amateur rodmaking. I know thatthis list revolves around the Garrison method but it is just not possibletoproduce enough output.We are not looking for the 'mass market' just 10% would be too much!We could not support a solid trend to bamboo because 99% of allrodmakers arehand planers and work alone.The market is crying out for production rods, this would bring cane to theaverage angler without him having to resort to tarted up junk.Do not let the word 'production' spell bad rods. Lets face it if Garrisonwasto attend a rodmakers gathering and bring one of his rods I do not thinktheywould be very well received. Poor cork and roughly turned aluminum seathardwear would not cut it today.Payne was a production rod maker an you cannot fault his work.Terry Terry, Re: The market for such rods: Last month I ordered a Sharpes Scottie 7'6"#5 blank from Cabella's. These blanks were out of stock 1 week after thecatalogue hit the streets. My rod is back ordered for April 3. These blankssell(retail)in the $275 range and are of reputed high quality. I think themarket is there and can be reached through mail order houses or even theWeb! JMHO Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 14 08:06:29 1998 Subject: varnish Richard;I use a copper dip tube with no problems (other than the typicallint- on-the-rod type). My tube is 1.25" i.d. with a 1.25-2" female adapterat the top and I use a rubber stopper to seal it. I squeeze the stopper tolet the air out and get it right down to the varnish. I haven't had anyproblems with it skinning over or setting up in the tube using this method.If it is going to be a long time before I use it, I will float a teaspoonor so of thinner on top of the varnish before I close the tube.Use a tubeor straw in the thinner then put your finger over it to hold in the thinnerthen release on top of the varnish. You're right about keeping smallquantities of it from setting up,altho the thinner trick helps, and so doeskeeping it in a plastic bottle you can squeeze the air out of. It doeseventually go bad, but its cheap to replace as necessary. As for sanding, Ifind that I have to wait at least 3 full days after dipping before I sand.I use 600 w/d between coats and 1200 to sand out any flaws in the finalfinish. I polish with 3-M's Finesse-It that my boss had for polishing solidsurface counter tops, it works great, but requires alot of rubbing, it ismeant to be used with an electric polisher/buffer.If you are diligent youcan bring back the same shine as the untouched varnish, altho I do go overthe rest of the rod lightly to even it out. Another trick that works for meif I sand thru the varnish, or if I find a void in the finish, is to use aneedle and put a drop in the void, let cure, then carefully sand andpolish.This is the only varnish I have ever used on fly rods, I am a finishcarpenter and in the course of my career I have used most every type offinish made and I can't stand polyurethane.I don't like working with it, itlooks like a plastic slip cover on fine furniture and it is difficult torepair if damaged or flawed.Ganted, it may provide better moistureprotection, but I don't consider it to be worth it. I have had good luckwith old rods that I have refinished that seemed soft by stripping themandkeeping them in my drying cabinet with the light on and the humidity leveldown to about 35% until they are finished. This seems to me to restoresomeof their backbone.The worst thing about spar varnishes to me is that they darken your threadconsiderably. After much experimenting with color preservatives I havesettled on Dave LeClairs poly( I know I'm contradicting myself,but it doeswork very well) blend rod varnish. I use 2 or 3 coats on the wraps beforedipping.Thin it some to get good penetration.It will darken the threadsome, but not as much as spar and will make the wraps more opaque. I amnota big fan of transparent wraps and would like to find something that willkeep the thread brite like laquer, but it has been my experience thatlaquer coated thread cracks very quickly.I have had the same problem withGudebrod and U-40, not to mention bleed thru of varnish and resultingblotchy wraps. Dave's stuff works fine, is compatible with MOW andabsolutely bonds your thread to the rod.If ( or when) you find it necessary to strip varnish of any make, SafestStripper works fine and doesn't stink up your shop or back room orbasement.Sorry to sound like a commercial for these products,but I find I get moreand more opinionated as life goes on. All disclaimers apply. I hope you getsome use out of these ramblings.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 14 08:21:36 1998 Subject: varnish Richard;One thing I forgot to mention, I have had terribly problems withcommercialtack coths.They will leave a residue on the rod that will cause voids inthe varnish, fish eyes ,etc. They also will leave as much lint behind asthey take off. I use painters lint-free rags from the paint store andthinner to wipe with and inspect, inspect,inspect with 3x magnifiers.Goodluck!John Channer from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Mar 14 09:12:30 1998 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite usersReferences: Reed- You're probably pretty close to the mark with "magic." It's theculmination of trial and error, craftsmanship and lore. Call 'emrecipes, science, art, whatever. Great tapers are certainly at theheart of a great fly rod. Brian from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Mar 14 09:40:33 1998 Sat, 14 Mar 1998 23:40:24 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Production rods Terry,I realy haven't any problem with production rods, when I wrote that all you need to do is make rods the guys in the store like and you'll sell lots I was speaking from experience as the stock controler of the place I work at. I know something can be absolutely the best you can get but if the people in the shop don't like it, it'll collect dust.It's total bull shit but it's what I see all the time. What I don't understand is why you have a problem making enough rods to fill your market. You use milling equipment and presumably have an effieient straightening method, so you should be making one or two rods (at least) per day.Here, rods would need to be from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Mar 14 09:53:09 1998 Subject: Re: buffing varnish John,See below. GRZLYHKL@delphi.com wrote:Anyway, I've just revarnished a rod and before wrapping the guides I'dlike totake the glare finish off the varnish. Has anyone out there ever usedpumiceor rottenstone, either with water or parrafin oil to buff out the varnishinthis way? Rottenstone is one step harsher than talc, the abrasion it causes willbe too fine to diffuse glare, i.e., it polishes.Pumice will probably cut the glare a bit, but I would suggest adifferent course. After removing the defects and polishing to a niceshine, apply a hard Carnauba-based wax (I use Butchers). Buff this out glare and protecting the finish from DEEP and other hazards. I like theappearance and it is better protection than some varnishes. Best regards,Reed from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Mar 14 11:17:00 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: buffing varnish at the shop I worked at (violins) we used Behlen's Rock Hard andpolished with 0000 steel wool and Tres Bien furniture polish incombination (non silicone) and it produced a slightly shiny mattefinish. Rottenstone will give you a mirror like finish and we used itafter the 0000 wool and polish if we wanted to have a polished finish,also applied with Tres Bien (non silicone) polish. We also found if yousand with the greyish blue non load sandpaper it left a sterate residueand you got fish eye's in your finish. Has anybody tried Behlens rockhard on bamboo and if so how were the results, the stuff is pretty toughand presented no problem with touch up. ----------From: Reed F. Curry[SMTP:rcurry@top.monad.net] Sent: Saturday, March 14, 1998 7:53 AM Subject: Re: buffing varnish John,See below. GRZLYHKL@delphi.com wrote:Anyway, I've just revarnished a rod and before wrapping the guidesI'd like totake the glare finish off the varnish. Has anyone out there everused pumiceor rottenstone, either with water or parrafin oil to buff out thevarnish inthis way? Rottenstone is one step harsher than talc, the abrasion it causes willbe too fine to diffuse glare, i.e., it polishes.Pumice will probably cut the glare a bit, but I would suggest adifferent course. After removing the defects and polishing to a niceshine, apply a hard Carnauba-based wax (I use Butchers). Buff this out glare and protecting the finish from DEEP and other hazards. I liketheappearance and it is better protection than some varnishes. Best regards,Reed from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Mar 14 11:21:44 1998 Subject: Re:buffing varnish Rottenstone in parafin oil, pumice, etc. are allthe traditional materials to use, but if you goto an automotive paint store you can find alot of modern abrasives that will do anythingand everything you could ever imagine. Todo what you describe, I would just go to thelocal hardware store and get some rubbingcompound in the automotive section. Rubbingcompound is coarser and polishing compoundis finer. Turtle Wax is a good brand. Darryl Hayashida from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Mar 14 11:54:44 1998 (205.236.248.129) Subject: Re: Production rods Reed,the problem is with this list is youth! Most members have no idea of whatagoodbamboo rod should be, they probably only vaguely remember glass.Youth and strong opinions go hand in hand, this is why perhaps 80% of thecontent isquestionable. On the plus side youth soon passes and we can look back andlaughatwhat once we thought important.Terry Reed F. Curry wrote: Terence Ackland wrote:Do not let the word 'production' spell bad rods. Lets face it if Garrisonwasto attend a rodmakers gathering and bring one of his rods I do not thinktheywould be very well received. Poor cork and roughly turned aluminumseathardwear would not cut it today.Payne was a production rod maker an you cannot fault his work.Terry Terry,You're much more fun when I can disagree with you! Unfortunately, Ithink you are absolutely right, not only about Garrison, but about themis- understanding of "production rods". Payne, Thomas, Leonard,Edwards,Hawes (few, alas, but the intent was there), etc., were all ProductionRods. What we need today are rods like the high end Edwards Bristols(F-12 and up). The tapers of these rods were superb, the fittings wereadequate, and the prices were, well, $12 dollars and up (probably rightabout $200+, 1998 dollars).Bevelers were a superb means of producing rods, a single set ofmetalpatterns gave endless flexibility, and you could manage curves thatwould be impossible with a planing form. I had half a dozen F.E. Thomasbutts which were made on the same template, but showed wide variationintaper. Something else I noted: by making each section a standard lengthyou could cut out a section for a 2 pc or 3 pc, 7' to 8' rod, depending,of course on the taper you started with.Best regards,Reed from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk Sat Mar 14 14:21:47 1998 (CET)(envelope- from c.max.j@vip.cybercity.dk) byvip.cybercity.dk (8.8.3/8.8.2) with SMTP id VAA06008 for; Sat, 14 Mar 1998 21:02:12 +0100 (CET) Subject: Re: Production rods -----Original Message----- the problem is with this list is youth! Most members have no idea ofwhata goodbamboo rod should be, they probably only vaguely remember glass.Youth and strong opinions go hand in hand, this is why perhaps 80% of thecontent isquestionable. On the plus side youth soon passes and we can look back andlaugh atwhat once we thought important.Terry Excuse me for interrupting, but the above cries out for a comment. Youth as well as old age are states of mind. Some people stay young(ish)alltheir life, some are born old. If youth and strong opinions go hand in hand,You, Terry, must be a teenager, judged by Your contributions to this list.Fortunately You are able to combine experience with strong opinions,whichmakes Your mails worthwhile reading. Experience and opinions are cornerstones on this list, they are the reasonwhy I look forward to reading my mail every day. OK so some ideas mightnotbe Einsteinian, but who cares? Better a few misses than nothing at all. Remember, PHY, Edwards, Payne and the rest started out young. Look whathasbeen handed over to us! Not bad for people who was once young. Being 43 I look 20 years back, and the favourites were wine, women andsongs.. Come to think of it, they still are! Does that make me young yet, orjust slow to learn? Terry, stay young and keep those letters coming - they are appriciated. Best regards Carsten from harry37@epix.net Sat Mar 14 17:36:18 1998 SAA10095 Subject: Re: Guide spacing determination Art Port wrote: Let me know if something doesn't make sense,Art Art, Thanks! Greg from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Sat Mar 14 18:51:07 1998 Subject: Lathes...again Lathe guru's:I have the opportunity to buy a small jewlers lathe for cheap.Any comments/caveats in using this for rod building purposes? from SBDunn@aol.com Sat Mar 14 19:37:19 1998 Subject: Starrett 60Ÿ point Can anyone supply the part number for the 60 degree point? They can't findithere in SLC. from flyrod@artistree.com Sat Mar 14 19:46:30 1998 RAA08848 Subject: Re: Starrett 60Ÿ point Starrett Part Number listed on "Rodmakers Web Site" is PT06632/6Contact Point. --------------------------------------------- SBDunn wrote: Can anyone supply the part number for the 60 degree point? They can'tfind ithere in SLC. from flyrod@artistree.com Sat Mar 14 20:01:25 1998 SAA09614 Subject: Re: Varnish? John,You are right it is expensive. Paid $30.00 a quart! But man it's really nicestuff. Sales guy said this the best you can buy with the Man-O-War adistant2nd. He stocks it for these high end boat builders/restorers. Thanks forthetip! Chris Wohlford ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- John Vorndran wrote: Hello All, I have been "lurking" on this list for some time now and decided torespond to this post.I have built a number of rods and have been using Pratt&LambertVitrolitevarnish. This is an expensive varnish, however, it is extremely good. Ithas the Ultraviolet inhibitors to make it last in the sun for many years.I have never used any other type of varnish on my rods and I have neverseen this varnish mentioned on the list before! Anyway, just my 2 centsworth..... John Vorndran from mcreek@sirus.com Sat Mar 14 20:26:31 1998 Subject: Re: Production rods Terry, Given the strength of your opinions, let me know when you hit the legaldrinking age and I'll buy you your first pint. :^) Brian from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Mar 14 21:44:15 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA22128; Sat, 14 Mar199822:44:14 -0500 Subject: Re: buffing varnish John George Maurer gave some presentations at Grayrock a while back thatreally helps you solve some of these problems. You can hit the high spotsofthe "Uglies" with 1500-2000 grit sandpaper. Second you can then use yourrottenstone / paraffin oil or George now has a new synthetic cream thatheclaims is better. Lastly you can polish it out using Reed's favorite orGeorgehas a 2 part system that was developed by Darryl Whitehead - it worksnicely. Now for use of Rottenstone - it will slightly dull the finish - somepeoplelike a lower gloss finish and use it despite not having any real "Uglies". Thensome like the high gloss look - whatever turns you on. Chris Experts: I sent a message to the list yesterday but didn't see it posted. Must besomething wrong with the listserver, eh? Anyway, I've just revarnished a rod and before wrapping the guides I'dlike totake the glare finish off the varnish. Has anyone out there ever usedpumiceor rottenstone, either with water or parrafin oil to buff out the varnishinthis way? Any recommendations for or against? Not being an expert, Igot afew small pinprick bubbles in my varnish, even using a foam brush -perhapsworking too fast. My thought is to eliminate some of them with thebuffingas well as taking the shiny finish off. Maybe I'm way off the beam here,butI figure you experts would know. This is only my second refinishing jobon cane, the other was many years ago, and so I'm a rookie. I used a sparvarnish, heated, but not thinned. Regards,John John BreslinGrzlyhkl@delphi.com from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Mar 14 21:47:58 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id WAA22653; Sat, 14 Mar199822:47:56 -0500 Subject: =?us-ascii?q?Re:_Starrett_60=F8_point?= Can you add a sentence to the rodmakers listserve welcome messagetopointpeople to the Rodmakers Homepage for the archives and other sources ofinfo. Itwill help a lot ofpeople find this source when they first log on. This is case in point. Thanks Chris On Sat, 14 Mar 1998 17:49:30 -0800, C.J. Wohlford wrote: Starrett Part Number listed on "Rodmakers Web Site" is PT06632/6Contact Point. --------------------------------------------- SBDunn wrote: Can anyone supply the part number for the 60 degree point? They can'tfind ithere in SLC. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Mar 14 22:25:29 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 15Mar 1998 00:26:43 -0400 Subject: Hardy Palakona I was in an antique shop the other day and saw a beautiful Hardy Palakona. 8' 3pc with two tips. It was in exceptional condition. Anyone have an idea of it's value. I am curious to compare with what he was asking. On a side note....I received some new toys to play with. If you all have some time take a look at my "Tools" page off of rodmakers. Take care. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 14 22:48:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: varnish I am not familiar with this product but if I knew the vehicle that is beingused I could recommend what kind of thinner to use. Naptha possibly as itwill help in the drying time or you could use regular mineral spirits. Giveme the break down of what is in this particular product and I will advise. Ihave 30+ years in the paint industry.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 14 22:52:15 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Starrett 60 point Look in your local phone book and see if you have any suppliers to thecuttingtool market close by as they will have the points you need.Bret from stpete@netten.net Sun Mar 15 08:45:18 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA11651 for Subject: Burners for flaming I was at the local hardware store and looked at BernzOmatic burners. Ihave seen recommendations for the JT680 (they didn't have it) and theTS4000 ($45.99 retail!!). They had a BernzOmatic brochure there whichlisted uses. The JTH7 was $31.00 and covered the same uses which Isuppose means gets just as hot? What am I looking for in the burner? Rick from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 15 10:59:48 1998 Subject: Re: Test 123 from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Mar 15 14:15:31 1998 Subject: Re: buffing varnish Patrick,I've used Behlen Rock Hard Varnish on reel seat fillers. Worksgreat. I don't know how it would work on the rod itself, it may be too hard andcrack after flexing. Dave L. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Mar 15 15:17:26 1998 Subject: Hardy Palakona I would check with someone like Bob summers or Len Codella for anaccurateprice on this. You will need to know condition of rod i.e. varnish ,straightness, tipsa same lenght etc. etc. etc. I saw Bob yesterday inDetroitand some people asked him about rods they had and these were the kind ofquestions he asked of them. Hard to give a price without this.Bret from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Mar 15 18:11:43 1998 Subject: Re: deal of century How much. Sorry this is slow in coming, but I was having to much funtouringEngland and fishing. Mark from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Mar 15 18:56:27 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 15Mar 1998 20:57:41 -0400 Subject: Reed Curry E-Mail Address? Does someone have an e-mail address for Reed Curry? My message got bumped by the provider.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Mar 16 00:33:34 1998 Subject: Re: Fred Hall Fishing Expo, Long Beach CA Darryl -Congrats on the contact - there are several good thing going for bamboointhe competition casting world - several of the men and women are or aregoingto be using bamboo in the competitions this year - Per Brandin willrepresented and if all goes well Pam Peters (the ladies champ) will beusing arod that my son, Matt, made. I never knew of how the competition workeduntil3 weeks ago when I actually competed in the Michigan event. First timeout Iscored a 94 in the trout event. There Is nothing about this event thatwouldprohibit a bamboo rod from winning - in fact several feel that bamboo willcome to reign all events in the very near future.I have just returned from the Michigan Flyfishing Expo (it's 1:00 am -monday) - I was joined this weekend by Mark Metcalf. He shared with methepress proof of issue two of the magazine - some great improvements overthefirst. As I acted as Mark's host, we spent much time together and I wasquiteimpressed with his ideas and vision for the magazine's future. At dinnerthisevening he shared that he picked up more advertising support which isneededto made his efforts a success.And lastly Paul Young NEVER impregnated any of his rods - he tried arubber sealant once which was a dismal failure - but never impregnation. nighty - nightWayne from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Mar 16 07:09:46 1998 Subject: Filler Hi everyone, I was at the local woodcarvers show Saturday, mainly to just enjoybrowsing and looking at the talented work on display. I didn't intendto buy any wood as I haven't used the stuff I bought last year. I did buy a beautiful piece of cocobolo to make a filler for my firstrod. I was apprehensive in the purchase though, as I don't knowanything about the wood's characteristics. I am interested to know whatothers use to finish fillers, or any other particulars or caveats thatmight come to mind. The wife did make me buy a piece of pecan burl which, I am afraid, isgoing to have to age, and age and age. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Mar 16 07:11:08 1998 Subject: Re: para tapers In a message dated 98-03-09 01:48:53 EST, you write: John - sorry to be so late in getting to you on this. And btw, thanks forthevarnishing info; will respond to those letters a bit later. I have a rod that has a classic parabolic taper, parabolic in the bamboo flyrod sense that is. It is a Young Perfectionist made by the grandson in1989,perhaps from cane planed by the old man. Here is the way I see it, ie. myOPINIONS. And like the man said, opinions are like noses in that everyonehasone. The rod seems a bit tip heavy, probably for two reasons. One is that it hasasmallish handgrip, a bit thin. The other is that parabolics have a smallishtip-top and more bamboo in the mid section and less in the butt comparedto"progressive" or tip action rods. I guess this means it really is mid heavy.The rod casts short and long with equal grace. In waggling the rod, iteasilyflexes down into the handgrasp - you can feel it do so. Note: waggling ismoving the rod back and forth sidewise but keeping the handgrasp paralleltoitself throughout vs. moving the tip back and forth using the handgrasp asthepivot point. Waggling will show the true bend of a rod - try it. The easeofbending, due to slow taper in the butt and heavier mid is what I call "selfloading". So, with scant line out, it still cast just fine because the rod,in effect, loads the line. Make sense? As you feed line into its optimumcasting range, the line comes more into play and the rod just keeps gettingstronger and the cast longer. At the top or its limit, it is fully employingthe bigger part of its bamboo, the butt section, where the max strength isinany taper - its just that in a tip action rod, only the tip is working. Ineffect, with a tip action, one has a short rod with a very long handle. Thatis why, to me at least, a tip action rod has a relatively short "sweet spot"casting range and is more critical of the line size. The parabolics I havecast extensively can take a broader range of lines and a much broadersweetspot (I also have a 7 -9 para rod that I built). I am no great caster; probably about average. However, I have not had toomuch trouble learning to cast my parabolics. Just have to wait a bitlonger slow. They are no trickier to me on the longer casts than the more tipactionrods, just different. I think they are wonderful. Having said all that, I have a copy of the Payne 98 that is an alltogetherdifferent action that I really, really like. Seems to be a crisp action.Guess I havn't seen the bamboo rod I didn't like. John, all the above is MY opinion. Hope it helps. Btw, the PHYPerfectionistof mine is a seven-six dt-4, tho some are rated at # 5. Also, the # 4Perfectionist was the favorite rod of AJ McClane. He considered it a greatrod ofr dry fly fishing as he liked to stop the cast above the water and letthe fly waft down to a soft landing; probably easier to do with a slowerrod. Best Regards,Richard from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Mar 16 08:12:31 1998 Subject: Re: Fred Hall Fishing Expo, Long Beach CA At 12:56 AM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:Darryl -Congrats on the contact - there are several good thing going forbamboo inthe competition casting world - several of the men and women are or aregoingto be using bamboo in the competitions this year - Per Brandin willrepresented and if all goes well Pam Peters (the ladies champ) will beusing arod that my son, Matt, made. I never knew of how the competition workeduntil3 weeks ago when I actually competed in the Michigan event. First timeout Iscored a 94 in the trout event. There Is nothing about this event thatwouldprohibit a bamboo rod from winning - in fact several feel that bamboowillcome to reign all events in the very near future. Wayne,I hate to sound naive but, I did not know tournament casting was stillbeing practiced. Are the events still part of the National Association ofAngling and Casting Clubs? I had just assumed that the NAACC was nolongerin existence. Over the past couple of years I have built some rods usingtapers from Earl Osten's book and have tried to research who was makingrods for tournament casters in the post war era. If you know how I couldcontact anyone with information I would greatly appreciate it. Please feelfree to contact me off line if you would like. Gary Heidt from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Mon Mar 16 08:40:02 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);16 Mar 98 09:44:06 EST EST Subject: Re: Starrett Hello All,Thanks again for the newbie advice on refinishing my old rod. I will be getting a couple of Bamboo Restoration books asap. Also wondering if anyone would be interested in a swap of sorts; I inherited several old Starret Micrometers. My grandfather was a machinist. I have more mic's than I'll ever need 8-). A few even do inside diameters. I'd be happy to trade for guides, tip tops, corks, etc. You know, general hardware. If interested, I will see if I can get exact model numbers, etc. Contact me off list at jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us. Apologies if this is unacceptable to the list. Joe Mulvey from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Mon Mar 16 10:52:18 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 16 Mar 1998 11:52:05 -0500 Subject: Metal Forms (Make vs. buy) I've decided its time to try metal forms and am looking for opinions onmaking vs. buying. How much time should I expect to put into makingmetal forms, assuming filing the groove, etc? Can anyone comment on the quality of forms coming from the Canadiansource? from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 16 11:49:39 1998 0000 Subject: Re: more than a handfull Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: AJ- Can one man turn out rods at the rate needed to compete withgraphite, etc.? Brian No from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 16 11:52:48 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Reed- One of the nicest casting rods I've fished with was a PH YoungTexan a friend purchased on his way home from Korea when the Youngshop was on 8 mile road. He paid around $30 for it because it was alower grade rod. Only place Paul Young Rod Co. appeared was on thebutt cap. And I think the science is in the taper, the art is in the execution.An ugly rod that casts great is still an ugly rod. I like bamboo forthe aesthetic, AND the feel. But without the aesthetics, nobody wouldbother making them and they would have died out the day tobacco glassrods came out. Just my opinion, but I would guess that if someone could afford to putsix talented rodmakers in a shop, gear it up with modern equipment,convince them to divide the labor, get them to build proven tapers for2040 hours a year, and direct market them for a reasonable ROI, youcould go after a nice niche market and compete with Orvis and Winston,etc. (But would you compete with their graphite or their cane rods?)It wouldn't be easy and you probably wouldn't get rich, but it wouldbe a good way to earn a modest living. That's why a couple of the bigname rod companies are still doing it.It sure would be fun. Brian The only reason the big firms are still building bamboo is for theprestige. At 1600-2550 each they are considered loss leaders! So much A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 16 12:09:42 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Filler Steve Trauthwein wrote: Hi everyone, I was at the local woodcarvers show Saturday, mainly to just enjoybrowsing and looking at the talented work on display. I didn't intendto buy any wood as I haven't used the stuff I bought last year. I did buy a beautiful piece of cocobolo to make a filler for my firstrod. I was apprehensive in the purchase though, as I don't knowanything about the wood's characteristics. I am interested to know whatothers use to finish fillers, or any other particulars or caveats thatmight come to mind. The wife did make me buy a piece of pecan burl which, I am afraid, isgoing to have to age, and age and age. Regards, SteveIndependence, MOAfter you polish cocobolo spin it fast in the lathe and bring the finishout with the backside of a piece of sandpaper. It is so oily that nofinish is needed.A.J.Thramer from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Mon Mar 16 12:22:07 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re[2]: Fast Tapers for Graphite users --simple boundary Do anyone have the taper for the PH Young Texan? ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite usersAuthor: Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Reed- One of the nicest casting rods I've fished with was a PH YoungTexan a friend purchased on his way home from Korea when the Youngshop was on 8 mile road. He paid around $30 for it because it was alower grade rod. Only place Paul Young Rod Co. appeared was on thebutt cap. And I think the science is in the taper, the art is in the execution.An ugly rod that casts great is still an ugly rod. I like bamboo forthe aesthetic, AND the feel. But without the aesthetics, nobody wouldbother making them and they would have died out the day tobacco glassrods came out. Just my opinion, but I would guess that if someone could afford to putsix talented rodmakers in a shop, gear it up with modern equipment,convince them to divide the labor, get them to build proven tapers for2040 hours a year, and direct market them for a reasonable ROI, youcould go after a nice niche market and compete with Orvis and Winston,etc. (But would you compete with their graphite or their cane rods?)It wouldn't be easy and you probably wouldn't get rich, but it wouldbe a good way to earn a modest living. That's why a couple of the bigname rod companies are still doing it.It sure would be fun. Brian The only reason the big firms are still building bamboo is for theprestige. At 1600-2550 each they are considered loss leaders! So much A.J.Thramer --simple boundary (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Mon, 16 Mar 98 10:08:35 GMT intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id KAA23645 for 0000 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users --simple boundary-- from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Mar 16 12:32:57 1998 Subject: Tournament Casting I'm in a really good position to be able to enter into this segment of fly fishing, since I have recently joined theLong Beach Casting Club, and they have several membersthat are active in tournament casting. Many of the membersof the club have urged me to get into tournament casting,and I think it might be an excellent way to promote thepopularity of cane rods. Of course I'll have to become abetter caster, but my wife has said that when I get interestedin doing something I get obsessed with it. One the other hand,if I make a rod for the members that are already good at it, and they start winning competitions with cane rods, that wouldpromote cane rods also. Can anybody give me any advice for the type of bamboo rodI should make if I do get into this? Most of you already knowthe rod that I like, but it might not be the best for tournamentcasting, and never having done this before, I need the adviceof some of you that have. Start looking for the cane rod contingent from the Long BeachCasting Club at casting competitions! Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Mar 16 12:48:46 1998 Subject: RE:Filler RO>Hi everyone, RO>I was at the local woodcarvers show Saturday, mainly to just enjoyRO>browsing and looking at the talented work on display. I didn't intendRO>to buy any wood as I haven't used the stuff I bought last year. RO>I did buy a beautiful piece of cocobolo to make a filler for my firstRO>rod. I was apprehensive in the purchase though, as I don't knowRO>anything about the wood's characteristics. I am interested to knowwhatRO>others use to finish fillers, or any other particulars or caveats thatRO>might come to mind. RO>The wife did make me buy a piece of pecan burl which, I am afraid, isRO>going to have to age, and age and age. RO>Regards, SteveRO>Independence, MO Steve, One of the woodworking mag's had a report on Cocobolo in this month's orlast month's issue. Seems many people are alergic to this wood or it'ssap. Take precautions when working with it. Don from skyboss@ibm.net Mon Mar 16 12:50:25 1998 byout1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA128672 for; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:50:16 GMT Subject: Cocobolo-All you wanted to know Cocobolo's scientific name is Dalbergia retusa from the plant familyLeguminosae. Other common names associated with cocobolo are: Granadillo (Mexico,Guatemala), Funera (El Salvador), Palo negro (Honduras), Nambar(Nicaragua,Costa Rica), Cocobolo, Cocobolo prieto (Panama). Cocobolo is an extremelydense (it doesn't float!) hardwood and grows mostly in the Pacific regionsof Central America extending from Panama to southwestern Mexico. Oflimitedoccurrence, usually in the drier uplands. The cocobolo is a small to medium-sized tree 45 to 60 ft high with trunkdiameters of 20 to 24 in.; usually of poor form. It is somewhat variable incolor when freshly sawn but heartwood usually becoming a deep richorangered with black striping or mottling on exposure. Its texture is fine; grainstraight to interlocked; oily; without distinctive taste, odor slightlypungent and fragrant when worked. Cocobolo is denser and stronger than Brazilian Rosewood. It has excellentdrying properties, free of surface and end checking. Shrinkage is usuallylow; high stability in use. Very low moisture absorption. Cocobolo hasexcellent machining characteristics; natural oils give the wood a goodpolish. Fine dust may cause dermatitis. Somewhat variable in color, deep richorange- red with black striping or mottling on exposure to air. Fine grain,straight to interlocked; oily; Basic specific gravity >0.98. It requires nofinish coat of varnish, shellac or any kind of sealer.Cocobolo does not soakup water readily, and therefore does not swell when wet. Nor does itchangesize appreciably due to variations in temperature. It's easy to see why the physical properties of Cocobolo make it ideal forreel seats. Ken Holder -----Original Message----- Subject: Filler Hi everyone, I was at the local woodcarvers show Saturday, mainly to just enjoybrowsing and looking at the talented work on display. I didn't intendto buy any wood as I haven't used the stuff I bought last year. I did buy a beautiful piece of cocobolo to make a filler for my firstrod. I was apprehensive in the purchase though, as I don't knowanything about the wood's characteristics. I am interested to know whatothers use to finish fillers, or any other particulars or caveats thatmight come to mind. The wife did make me buy a piece of pecan burl which, I am afraid, isgoing to have to age, and age and age. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Mar 16 12:55:12 1998 Subject: RE:Tournament Casting RO>I'm in a really good position to be able to enter into thisRO>segment of fly fishing, since I have recently joined theRO>Long Beach Casting Club, and they have several membersRO>that are active in tournament casting. Many of the membersRO>of the club have urged me to get into tournament casting,RO>and I think it might be an excellent way to promote theRO>popularity of cane rods. Of course I'll have to become aRO>better caster, but my wife has said that when I get interestedRO>in doing something I get obsessed with it. One the other hand,RO>if I make a rod for the members that are already good at it,RO>and they start winning competitions with cane rods, that wouldRO>promote cane rods also. RO>Can anybody give me any advice for the type of bamboo rodRO>I should make if I do get into this? Most of you already knowRO>the rod that I like, but it might not be the best for tournamentRO>casting, and never having done this before, I need the adviceRO>of some of you that have. RO>Start looking for the cane rod contingent from the Long BeachRO>Casting Club at casting competitions! RO>Darryl Hayashida Darryl, When fishing at Lake Elisabeth this past weekend, I met the fellow(Steve Lee) that owns your 7' rod you had at the Fred Hall show. There'swas a 2nd "Sir Darryl" rod owner with him, but I've forgotten his name.(sorry) Heard again how the "pro's" were impressed. Steve gave a verygood report on your rod. Don Burns from skyboss@ibm.net Mon Mar 16 12:58:38 1998 byout1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with SMTP id SAA76234 for; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 18:58:29 GMT Subject: Re: Tournament Casting Is obsessed with anything to do with flyfishing bad? I don't think so ! Ken Holder -----Original Message----- Subject: Tournament Casting "Many of the members of the club have urged me to get into tournamentcasting,and I think it might be an excellent way to promote thepopularity of cane rods. Of course I'll have to become abetter caster, but my wife has said that when I get interestedin doing something I get obsessed with it." Darryl Hayashida from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Mar 16 13:00:30 1998 Subject: Re: Filler After you polish cocobolo spin it fast in the lathe and bring the finishout with the backside of a piece of sandpaper. It is so oily that nofinish is needed.A.J.Thramer Hey A.J., Thanks I'll give it a try! Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from anglport@con2.com Mon Mar 16 13:52:01 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA08144 for Subject: Re:Earl Osten Wayne,I hate to sound naive but, I did not know tournament casting wasstillbeing practiced. Are the events still part of the National Association ofAngling and Casting Clubs? I had just assumed that the NAACC was nolongerin existence. Over the past couple of years I have built some rods usingtapers from Earl Osten's book and have tried to research who was makingrods for tournament casters in the post war era. If you know how I couldcontact anyone with information I would greatly appreciate it. Pleasefeelfree to contact me off line if you would like. Gary Heidt Gary,As long as we're "hating to sound"...., I'll bite: who's Earl Osten,and what is the title of his book(or are you using the term figuratively)? Ihave a pretty extensive library of both fly fishing and rod building booksand in the 20 or so years I've been amassing the volumes I've never heardofEarl ! How dat be????I'm always open to a new title to "collect" or get tapers from.Help,Art from anglport@con2.com Mon Mar 16 14:26:02 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA10546 for Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Can anyone tell me why there was an attachment to this letter? It seemstohave no info at all. Am I missing something?Art At 10:10 AM 3/16/98 GMT, you wrote:Do anyone have the taper for the PH Young Texan? ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite usersAuthor: Date: 3/16/98 9:56 AM Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Reed- One of the nicest casting rods I've fished with was a PH YoungTexan a friend purchased on his way home from Korea when the Youngshop was on 8 mile road. He paid around $30 for it because it was alower grade rod. Only place Paul Young Rod Co. appeared was on thebutt cap. And I think the science is in the taper, the art is in the execution.An ugly rod that casts great is still an ugly rod. I like bamboo forthe aesthetic, AND the feel. But without the aesthetics, nobody wouldbother making them and they would have died out the day tobacco glassrods came out. Just my opinion, but I would guess that if someone could afford to putsix talented rodmakers in a shop, gear it up with modern equipment,convince them to divide the labor, get them to build proven tapers for2040 hours a year, and direct market them for a reasonable ROI, youcould go after a nice niche market and compete with Orvis and Winston,etc. (But would you compete with their graphite or their cane rods?)It wouldn't be easy and you probably wouldn't get rich, but it wouldbe a good way to earn a modest living. That's why a couple of the bigname rod companies are still doing it.It sure would be fun. Brian The only reason the big firms are still building bamboo is for theprestige. At 1600-2550 each they are considered loss leaders! So much A.J.Thramer Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\RFC822.TXT from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Mar 16 15:10:13 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA284432450; Mon, 16 Mar 1998 13:07:30 -0800 Subject: RE: Attachments to e-mail Art, I receive an attachment logo with all of my outside e-mails. I believe this is because a header and/or trailer record comes in with the e-mail message. I may be wrong on this, just a guess. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Mar 16 15:50:19 1998 Subject: Re:Earl Osten Art,Earl Osten wrote "Tournament Fly & Bait-Casting" published in 1946byA.S.Barnes & Company, New York. It contains 147 pages devoted entirelytothe National Association of Angling and Casting Clubs. It mainly coversthe modern (please note the date) era of the NAACC giving rules of events,records, and a bit about some of the Champions. Also included are two orthree tapers, for each event, that Mr. Osten says were in use at the time.Mr. Osten at the time of printing was Executive Secretary of the NAACCandheld quite a few records. I saw a copy for sale not long ago, I'll serchmy records and try to see if it's avalible if you are interested.Gary from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Mar 16 15:57:24 1998 Subject: Re:Earl Osten Art,That didn't take as long as I thought it would. There is a copy atJosephLoverti's web page. Gary from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Mar 16 16:10:45 1998 Subject: Re: Fred Hall Fishing Expo, Long Beach CA Gary -I am clueless on the structure of the casting competitions. But I knowwhoto ask - I will be talking to Pam Peter at the end of this week and willreport back. Wayne from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Mar 16 16:25:26 1998 Subject: Re: Fred Hall Fishing Expo, Long Beach CA ThanksGary At 05:07 PM 3/16/98 EST, you wrote:Gary -I am clueless on the structure of the casting competitions. But I knowwhoto ask - I will be talking to Pam Peter at the end of this week and willreport back. Wayne from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Mar 16 16:48:51 1998 Subject: Re: Re:Earl Osten I think I have a copy of this at home. I would be happy to peruse if folkswant me to. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Heidt Subject: Re:Earl OstenDate: Monday, March 16, 1998 2:00 PM Art,Earl Osten wrote "Tournament Fly & Bait-Casting" published in 1946byA.S.Barnes & Company, New York. It contains 147 pages devoted entirelytothe National Association of Angling and Casting Clubs. It mainly coversthe modern (please note the date) era of the NAACC giving rules ofevents,records, and a bit about some of the Champions. Also included are two orthree tapers, for each event, that Mr. Osten says were in use at thetime.Mr. Osten at the time of printing was Executive Secretary of the NAACCandheld quite a few records. I saw a copy for sale not long ago, I'll serchmy records and try to see if it's avalible if you are interested.Gary from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Mar 16 16:57:34 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Metal Forms (Make vs. buy) John,I'm in the process of building my own 3/4" cold-rolled steel formsas per a compilation of the instructions in Wayne's book and on ThomasPenrose's page. I can't give you a number, but plan on many!! (I'll guess15-25) hours of filing, stoning, etc. And I hope you are better with a tapthan I am. Tapping through 3/4" steel is quite a job, especially when youconsider that you have to do it 24 - 30 times. I hate to admit it, but Ibroke two taps, one on the last hole.I'll start filing the groove next time I get a few minutes in theshop. How long that will take I can't say. This is the second set offorms I've made. The first was maple and did quite a good job until I hadplaned away several nice sized chunks of the form. I don't know if thetime invested in the metal forms will ever allow them to be moreeconomicalthan buying a set.I hope this at least gives you an idea of the work (manual labor)involved...Harry Boyd John A. Whitaker wrote: I've decided its time to try metal forms and am looking for opinions onmaking vs. buying. How much time should I expect to put into makingmetal forms, assuming filing the groove, etc? Can anyone comment on the quality of forms coming from the Canadiansource? from anglport@con2.com Mon Mar 16 16:58:08 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA21990 for Subject: Re:Earl Osten At 05:07 PM 3/16/98 -0500, you wrote:Art,That didn't take as long as I thought it would. There is a copy atJosephLoverti's web page. Gary Gary,Thanks. I had no idea there were books written about the tournaments.Art from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Mar 16 17:08:27 1998 Subject: new bamboo Andy sent me this e-mail and asked to have it posted on Rodmakers: Subj: Re: Posting George, I have the results back from the lab where I had my bamboo tested. Pleaseread the below letter and post it on the flyrod-builders listserver if youthink it is appropriate. The very last line of my letter refers to theprice of the material. Some people may consider this advertising sopleasedelete this line if you think it doesn't belong. If you find the letterappropriate and don't want to post it yourself, please let me know. Thankyou. -Andy-------------------------------------I have recently received my third shipment of tonkin cane for rodbuilders.The very first shipment of tonkin I received in January of '97 was toogreen and full of slash marks and burn marks. I went to China last summerto rectify the problems and returned with bamboo that was yellow andvoidof slash marks and burn marks. The problems with that shipment were thewall density and mold. The wall density was a bit less then many builderswould like, this occurred as a direct result of cutting the bottom metreoffthe poles which was done so we did not have the slash marks. InDecember, I returned to China to rectify these problems. I now have in Seattle several thousand pieces of 12' x 2-2 1/2" tonkin thatare 100% void of slash marks and burn marks, good colour and includes theentire pole. None of this bamboo is heat straightened. These bundlesaverage 7lbs heavier than the last shipment. The exterior is much cleaner(less moldy) than my last shipment. The only knock that I know of so faronthis bamboo is mold on the interior. This is prolific in some piecesbecause the internodes of the bamboo all have a hole poked through them.This was done in China to improve air flow and cut down on splittingwhichis sometimes caused by excess heat. I set about trying to determine justhow much of a problem this mold and the mold from the last shipmentpresents. I undertook this task to attempt to ease some concerns of my own andmanyrodbuilders. Information has been published that stated that my materialmay be inferior due to the presence of mold in the bamboo. I obtainedsamples of the tested material and presented it to some local builderswhohave over ten years of experience. I also spoke with some other rodbuilders nationally, including Per Brandin, John Bradford, George Maurer,Walton Powell, and Tom Morgan. Not one of these builders was concernedwith the amount of mold in the bamboo. I was told that any visible moldwasno different than what they have seen in the past and that any decisionabout the usability of the bamboo strips should be made by the builderusingtheir knowledge and intuition. This mold may not be a source of concern,nevertheless, I stand by my claim that if any builder is not happy with mybamboo and/or can not use my bamboo, then they should not pay me for it. I have taken samples of this current material to a structural engineeringlab in Seattle called PSI. I gave them six moldy pieces and six non-moldypieces of bamboo. They ran tests and concluded that the moldy pieceswereno weaker than the others. The test was a Flexural Test and wasconductedunder the most controlled manner possible. The twelve pieces were cutfroma similar location from twelve different poles. All poles were of similarsize and age. The pieces were cut to a similar dimension averaging .567inches in width and .184 inches in thickness. The pieces were cut from anequal distance from a node. They were placed onto supports with a span of8". The load was applied at the center with a slow load speed of 0.2" perminute. When the pieces failed, the load weight, the maximum fiber stress(psi) and the deflection were all noted. Again, as stated in the report,"The maximum fiber stresses were not effected by the mold." I am happyto provide copies of these test results to anyone. While I believe that the publicized "caneotine" tests were performed ingoodfaith, the test had too many variables for me to consider it legitimate(Thetested strips came from cane that was different ages and different sizes,they were cut from different locations of the culm, the strips had beenflamed, and the three pieces tested were tested against a single"standard"piece of bamboo which may have very well been a stronger piece ofbamboo). Mold is vigorous and some form of it apparently loves tonkin cane(Actually,I think it likes all bamboo. It is the high starch content that attractsthe mold). It has dogged me and from what I hear, it has also been aproblem for the Demarests. I will try to rectify the problem for as long asit exists. I have taken samples to a microbiology lab in an attempt to learn how tokill this mold. Bleach works well and they tell me that the mold won't beaproblem if the bamboo is heated to 150+ Fahrenheit (that's the necessarytemperature of the bamboo, not your oven), or, dried and kept dry (sealed).However, information from the engineering lab and from severalexperiencedbuilders, tells me that as it is, the mold does not present a strength orlongevity dilemma for bamboo rod builders. The price of this material is the same as the last load. Minimum order ofone bundle (10 pcs). One through four bundles are $150/bundle and five ormore bundles are $130/bundle. Jeff Wagner in Ohio is a former student of George Maurer's. He has seen alot of bamboo and has been building bamboo flyrods for over five years, hesays that he has built 70-80 rods. He received four bundles of thisbambooand said that it was excellent, the best he has ever seen. I am once again opening the end of every bundle of bamboo before I ship itout. I am looking for bad bamboo. I know that every piece is good size,free of burn marks and slash marks. What I am looking for is mold, greencolour and water marks. I set each bundle on two saw horses under a floodlamp. I rotate the bundle so I get a good look at eight of the ten pieces.If I see more than one crappy piece (too ugly, moldy or green) I open theentire bundle and pull the offending pieces out. These pieces I sell tonurseries, crafts people or anyone else who wants non-flyrod qualitybamboo.In short, I make every attempt to ship buyers the best quality caneavailable. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Mar 16 17:17:41 1998 Subject: Re:Earl Osten Art,Not to belay the point but it has been a bit of an obsession, of mine,sense time on the river has been limited over the past couple years. I'veset up a casting stand on the neighborhood pond and have loads of fun evenif the neighbors do think the turnip just passed by.Just an aside, I've had great fun with a little casting rod I built last year.Gary from fiveside@net-gate.com Mon Mar 16 18:04:13 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA01690 for Subject: Nodeless Quads To nodeless fans,Has anyone any experience with nodeless quads? I do fine with nodelesshexand penta but am having a few problems with my first attempt at anodelessquad. The 45 degree edges seem a bit prone to chipping out at the splices.Was wondering if it's a built-in problem or just me. Bill from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 16 18:10:12 1998 Tue, 17 Mar 1998 08:09:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users On Mon, 16 Mar 1998, A.J.Thramer wrote: The only reason the big firms are still building bamboo is for theprestige. At 1600-2550 each they are considered loss leaders! So much A.J.Thramer I know of a couple of fellows who've bought T&T bamboo rods. They waited forever for them and when they considered the cost (over 3 grand taking into account exchange rates and taxes, admitedly not T&T's fault) both thought they were nice looking but only good.I've never cast a T&T but I guess for the money even if they cast extremly well you'd expect something more. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from gwr@seanet.com Mon Mar 16 18:29:14 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA21094 for; Subject: New Web/restoration photos Hi again, Thanks to everyone who took the time to look at my website demo theother day. It worked for some, but not for others. Finally though we haveworked most of the bugs out of it and have posted it to the regular URL:http://www.goldenwitch.com . As before, ignore the commercial hype andtakea look at the restoration gallery under the restoration services. I thinkmost of you will appreciate them. Also, the Colonial Angler's stuff ispretty interesting.Comments, positive or negative, are welcome. I want this site to bebroadly appealing so feedback really is appreciated. Thanks, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com from bairdart@burgoyne.com Mon Mar 16 18:40:54 1998 Subject: Re: Filler A.J.Thramer wrote: Steve Trauthwein wrote: Hi everyone, I was at the local woodcarvers show Saturday, mainly to just enjoybrowsing and looking at the talented work on display. I didn't intendto buy any wood as I haven't used the stuff I bought last year. I did buy a beautiful piece of cocobolo to make a filler for my firstrod. I was apprehensive in the purchase though, as I don't knowanything about the wood's characteristics. I am interested to knowwhatothers use to finish fillers, or any other particulars or caveats thatmight come to mind. The wife did make me buy a piece of pecan burl which, I am afraid, isgoing to have to age, and age and age. Regards, SteveIndependence, MOAfter you polish cocobolo spin it fast in the lathe and bring the finishout with the backside of a piece of sandpaper. It is so oily that nofinish is needed.A.J.ThramerSteve, To take A.J.s method one step further. I turn thespacer onmy lathe, using 0000 steel wool soaked with Watco natural oil. As the wood heats up the grain opens up and the oil impregnates the wood. I then let the spacer sit for an hour and repeat the process. I do this four times. I think you will like the results. Bob Baird from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 16 18:45:44 1998 Subject: para tapers Richard:The description was great, I have a much clearer idea of what para's areall about now. I would run right out to the shop and start one right now,if I didn't have so may others to get done first. I will build one formyself the very first chance I get. What would be a good one to use tocatch 20"+ fish on size 24-26 dry flies?????. I built 2 Payne 98's, one tosell and one for myself,and I like it alot for the little river that runspast our driveway. The guy that bought the other one took his down to theSan Juan a couple of weeks ago and said it was great for the flies he used,but a little bit weak for that size fish, he plans to use it more on themountain streams around here.Thanks again and I hope the long windedresponse to your varnish question was of some use, I get carried awaysometimes.John Channer from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Mon Mar 16 18:49:01 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 16 Mar 1998 19:48:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Metal Forms (Make vs. buy) I'm really not concerned with the economical but rather the moniacal. Iwould prefer to make my own, its a pride thing. But I do not want tospend 100 hours in the shop doing it. Shop time for me is limited andwill remain this way for the year... Thanks for the input! I'm leaningtowards building my own. Harry Boyd wrote: John,I'm in the process of building my own 3/4" cold-rolled steel formsas per a compilation of the instructions in Wayne's book and on ThomasPenrose's page. I can't give you a number, but plan on many!! (I'll guess15-25) hours of filing, stoning, etc. And I hope you are better with a tapthan I am. Tapping through 3/4" steel is quite a job, especially when youconsider that you have to do it 24 - 30 times. I hate to admit it, but Ibroke two taps, one on the last hole.I'll start filing the groove next time I get a few minutes in theshop. How long that will take I can't say. This is the second set offorms I've made. The first was maple and did quite a good job until I hadplaned away several nice sized chunks of the form. I don't know if thetime invested in the metal forms will ever allow them to be moreeconomicalthan buying a set.I hope this at least gives you an idea of the work (manual labor)involved...Harry Boyd John A. Whitaker wrote: I've decided its time to try metal forms and am looking for opinions onmaking vs. buying. How much time should I expect to put into makingmetal forms, assuming filing the groove, etc? Can anyone comment on the quality of forms coming from the Canadiansource? from tausfeld@earthlink.net Mon Mar 16 19:22:00 1998 Subject: I'm out here... Hi Jon,I haven't forgot, I'll even buy the beer. I was down in Ithaca last week, but it was short notice so I didn't bother to call. Its been quite hectic with the new job, looking at every house west of Syracuse, going back home to visit the family. I'll be in touch...Tom Ausfeld from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Mar 16 21:04:28 1998 Subject: Re: Metal Forms (Make vs. buy) John -Only you can make the time / value judgment. The forms that I made(described in book) took about 40 hours. Doing it again would take lesstime -going to push - pull system, using a coarse file instead of the fine stonewhen surfacing, having help as close as the keyboard. I have talked toothersthat have made their own and several talk of doing a set of forms in 20hoursor so. What I never mentioned in the book was that I was starting abusinessand had had no income for over a year. The rest you are familiar with -aftera year and a half I had a finished rod - with a total expense of just about$150 That included all rod parts. Some sixteen years later I still use theforms - however I have been tempted to convert them to the push pull thatyousee today.If the Canadian forms that you mentioned are handled by John VolkfromGrindstone Anglers then I have seen a set. The set I saw had goodmachiningcomparable to those by Lon & Frank - however I didn't check them with adepthgauge - just a visual inspection. The price I was told was $300 US at theSwartz Creek Show. Wayne from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 16 21:05:19 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA13875 +0000 Subject: Re:Earl Osten I have a copy of"Spectators Guide to Tournament Fly and Bait Casting" putout by the American Casting Association. Picked it up when NationalChampionships were held here in Portland in Late 80's. Address ofAssociation was:ACA786 Hyatts Rd.Delaware, Ohio 43015Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Mar 16 21:14:12 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting Taper? Darryl, Since I don't know what qualities are desirable (I assume accuracyand/ordistance) in a tournament rod or type of casting performed, I don't know ifthe following info will help. The Claude Kreider book, The Bamboo Rod andHowto Build It, list the taper for the dry fly rod that won the 1947 dry flyaccuracy championship. However, the measurements are taken on 6" centers. Kurt Loup from FLYROD777@aol.com Mon Mar 16 21:33:50 1998 Subject: Rod Information First I want to thank all those that giave me the information on my trip toEngland. I make to Farlow's on Pall Mall and quite enjoyed it, as well asgetting in some fishing in the Cornwall area. I managed to pick up a rod that I'm aloof as to the actual date ofmanufacture. I cannot measure the reel seat due to it is cork and meetswiththe handle. Here is the info I so have. It has a agate stripping guide andtip top and is made by the Milward Co. The guides are very interesting inthatthey do not sit on the same flat but start on one and skip one to the nextandthey loop around one time compared to the standard snake guide that rolls.The odd thing is that it has a red rubber butt with a green felt line whereyou would press it on. Not sure if this rubber fighting but came with it orsomeone added it later. It has a ferrurle cap of wood. The butt cap isstamped "Milward, Made in England". It has 76 intermediates, all black.Probably more, but I believe the tip was brike off at one time. Thefurrulesare dowel spiked, shouldered. It has a hooded reel band. Anyone have any ideas on what I picked up? Even if it is not worthanythingit is a beautiful rod and it's my toy from a great trip. Mark A. Hallowell, Sr.847-688-1330 from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 16 22:50:44 1998 Subject: new bamboo George;Thanks for passing along the note from Andy Royer, the results of histestswere very relieving to me. The first time I split a culm that had greystreaks thru it from enamel to pith I broke about 1/2 the culm in anattempt to see if the grey spots were any weaker and as far as I could tellin my pseudo-scientic way they weren't. Its nice to see that someone withmore knowledge and better equipment agrees with me.It looks to me likeAndyis doing his best to make quality cane available to us.John Channer from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Mar 16 23:11:29 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 17Mar 1998 01:12:39 -0400 Subject: Reed I lost my connection and don't know if anyone responded so I will repost.... My address for Reed Curry bounced back...I was hoping someone could point me in the right direction. I recently found a line that was never used. Still in the package. Contrary to the posts I read about the finish being tacky, this one isalmost brittle. I also recall Turps (brandname?) being used. Is thismineral spirits? I guess what I am asking for is a procedure if you have the time. Take care, and thanks in advance. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from dhaftel@att.com Mon Mar 16 23:24:03 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 15:41:50-0500 Subject: RE: Re[2]: Fast Tapers for Graphite users 4.0.995.52 Art, That's the Eudora routing information. It tells the server where themessage goes, where it came from, etc... This info is usually hidden from the user in the message header. Eudora does it slightlydifferently. At least that's my limited knowledge about Eudora... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Art Port [SMTP:anglport@con2.com]Sent: Monday, March 16, 1998 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Can anyone tell me why there was an attachment to this letter? It seemstohave no info at all. Am I missing something?Art At 10:10 AM 3/16/98 GMT, you wrote:Do anyone have the taper for the PH Young Texan? ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite usersAuthor: Date: 3/16/98 9:56 AM Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Reed- One of the nicest casting rods I've fished with was a PH YoungTexan a friend purchased on his way home from Korea when the Youngshop was on 8 mile road. He paid around $30 for it because it was alower grade rod. Only place Paul Young Rod Co. appeared was on thebutt cap. And I think the science is in the taper, the art is in the execution.An ugly rod that casts great is still an ugly rod. I like bamboo forthe aesthetic, AND the feel. But without the aesthetics, nobody wouldbother making them and they would have died out the day tobacco glassrods came out. Just my opinion, but I would guess that if someone could afford to putsix talented rodmakers in a shop, gear it up with modern equipment,convince them to divide the labor, get them to build proven tapers for2040 hours a year, and direct market them for a reasonable ROI, youcould go after a nice niche market and compete with Orvis andWinston,etc. (But would you compete with their graphite or their cane rods?)It wouldn't be easy and you probably wouldn't get rich, but it wouldbe a good way to earn a modest living. That's why a couple of the bigname rod companies are still doing it.It sure would be fun. Brian The only reason the big firms are still building bamboo is for theprestige. At 1600-2550 each they are considered loss leaders! So much A.J.Thramer Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\RFC822.TXT from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Mar 16 23:41:59 1998 Subject: supplier for files Dear Listers There were a couple of people a while back who were asking me about highquality files and rasps. The following company sells the best that I knowof,and I have made it my business to find out. They sell tools and materials primarily to musical instrument makers, sothereare are many who will not find much of interest, but if you aredisappointedwith the performance of machine-cut files and rasps, you really ought totrytheir products. They also market the Swiss "Grobet" files, as well as asuperior handmade product. To request their catalog, write: Guenther DickPostfach 1127W-8354 MettenGermany The postal codes for Bavaria are now 5-number and begin with "9", but I'msurethis address will be adequate for now. Davy Riggs from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Mar 16 23:54:46 1998 Subject: and another thing Hi again While I'm thinking of it, I also found (wife made me thin out my catalogfile)the address of an outfit that sells components for making your ownvarnish- avery good thing to try, once you've tired of machining reels. WoodFinishing Enterprises1729 North 68th StreetWauwatosa, Wisconsin 53213 They've got every kind of oil, resin, gum, wax, extract and lac you couldeverthink of. And some others, too. Davy from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Tue Mar 17 00:36:34 1998 IAA24251 (EET) Windows NT(tm)) +0200 OU) Subject: Colour of nodal area. Since I am not certain about this, I have to ask you guys. Is the colour of the fibres supposed to be the same in the nodal area and between nodes? I have split my culm in six pieces and I found some darker areas from someof the nodes. Could it be some kind mold or fungus? Should I go to nodelessrod with this culm? Cheers,Seppo from flyrod@artistree.com Tue Mar 17 05:26:00 1998 XAA06262 Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite users I hate to be pain (no pun intended) but was there a Payne Young Texan taperincluded with this email? If so I missed/lost it. Could you please post itagain. Thank you Chris Wohlford --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Haftel, Dennis, CT wrote: Art, That's the Eudora routing information. It tells the server where themessage goes, where it came from, etc... This info is usually hidden from the user in the message header. Eudora does it slightlydifferently. At least that's my limited knowledge about Eudora... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Art Port [SMTP:anglport@con2.com]Sent: Monday, March 16, 1998 3:31 PM Subject: Re: Re[2]: Fast Tapers for Graphite users Can anyone tell me why there was an attachment to this letter? Itseems tohave no info at all. Am I missing something?Art At 10:10 AM 3/16/98 GMT, you wrote:Do anyone have the taper for the PH Young Texan? ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Re: Fast Tapers for Graphite usersAuthor: Date: 3/16/98 9:56 AM Brian & Michelle Creek wrote: Reed- One of the nicest casting rods I've fished with was a PH YoungTexan a friend purchased on his way home from Korea when the Youngshop was on 8 mile road. He paid around $30 for it because it was alower grade rod. Only place Paul Young Rod Co. appeared was on thebutt cap. And I think the science is in the taper, the art is in the execution.An ugly rod that casts great is still an ugly rod. I like bamboo forthe aesthetic, AND the feel. But without the aesthetics, nobodywouldbother making them and they would have died out the day tobaccoglassrods came out. Just my opinion, but I would guess that if someone could afford toputsix talented rodmakers in a shop, gear it up with modern equipment,convince them to divide the labor, get them to build proven tapers for2040 hours a year, and direct market them for a reasonable ROI, youcould go after a nice niche market and compete with Orvis andWinston,etc. (But would you compete with their graphite or their cane rods?)It wouldn't be easy and you probably wouldn't get rich, but it wouldbe a good way to earn a modest living. That's why a couple of the bigname rod companies are still doing it.It sure would be fun. Brian The only reason the big firms are still building bamboo is for theprestige. At 1600-2550 each they are considered loss leaders! So much A.J.Thramer Attachment Converted: c:\eudora\attach\RFC822.TXT from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Mar 17 07:12:48 1998 Subject: Re:Earl Osten Tom,Thank you any info is greatly appreciated.Gary At 07:02 PM 3/16/98 -0800, you wrote:I have a copy of"Spectators Guide to Tournament Fly and Bait Casting" putout by the American Casting Association. Picked it up when NationalChampionships were held here in Portland in Late 80's. Address ofAssociation was:ACA786 Hyatts Rd.Delaware, Ohio 43015Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Mar 17 07:21:29 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Information In a message dated 3/17/98 3:38:02 AM, you wrote: Mark - These are called bridge guides, and were a nice guide, but expensivetomanufacture. Milward is a well known British rodmaking firm. It soundslikeyou have an early Milward probably 1910's or 1920's. from tedgodfreys@erols.com Tue Mar 17 07:30:36 1998 Subject: re: Fast tapers and graphite users Becausethe cane rods are locked away in a glass case with huge pricetags on them. They can't afford them, so they don't ask to castthem. from gwbarnes@gwi.net Tue Mar 17 08:28:29 1998 Subject: Re: Nodeless Quads Bill:I've done only one nodeless quad but didn't experience any difference at thesplices than in other sections of the strips. As Tom once said, they foughtmeall the way. They also did not bind together on glue up as well, leavingsomejoins that were discernible on close inspection. This I attributed to thesquareconfiguration not being as conducive to winding forces as a more nearlyroundcross-section. Regardless it's a fairly good feeling rod and lucky as thedevil.Caught it's limit in the first twenty minutes while fishing Allegash waterlastspring.George Bill Fink wrote: To nodeless fans,Has anyone any experience with nodeless quads? I do fine with nodelesshexand penta but am having a few problems with my first attempt at anodelessquad. The 45 degree edges seem a bit prone to chipping out at the splices.Was wondering if it's a built-in problem or just me. Bill from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Mar 17 08:30:18 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Demarest cane Kurt, Heard from Demarest yesterday. The replacement cane was shippedonMarch12 and should be here right away. I'll give you a call.Harry from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Mar 17 11:28:48 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 17Mar 1998 13:29:54 -0400 Subject: Turps... What is Turps? On another note...I want to use my drill to shape cork grips. Currently, I do not have a lathe (my bedroom is just not big enough) and was planning on building up a grip in a steel mandrel. What is the best way to attach the cork to the steel so I can still get it off after gluing and shaping. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Mar 17 14:21:44 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA40560 +0100 Subject: New E-mail address boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD51EA.D8BE7700" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD51EA.D8BE7700 To whom it may concern Due to aquireing a new computer and a new Internetprovider I have gotten=a new E-mail address: cmj@post11.tele.dk Messages posted within the last few days have not reached me, so if You =have sent me a mail, please post it again. Best regards Carsten JorgensenDenmark ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD51EA.D8BE7700 To whom it may =concern Due to aquireing anew = new Internetprovider I have gotten a new E-mail address: cmj@post11.tele.dk Messages postedwithin = again. Best =regards Carsten =JorgensenDenmark ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01BD51EA.D8BE7700-- from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Mar 17 15:09:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re:Earl Osten I have a copy of the Osten book in my hand. I will be happy to get infofrom, or if Sir D. you need it, let me know. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Heidt Subject: Re:Earl OstenDate: Monday, March 16, 1998 2:00 PM Art,Earl Osten wrote "Tournament Fly & Bait-Casting" published in 1946byA.S.Barnes & Company, New York. It contains 147 pages devoted entirelytothe National Association of Angling and Casting Clubs. It mainly coversthe modern (please note the date) era of the NAACC giving rules ofevents,records, and a bit about some of the Champions. Also included are two orthree tapers, for each event, that Mr. Osten says were in use at thetime.Mr. Osten at the time of printing was Executive Secretary of the NAACCandheld quite a few records. I saw a copy for sale not long ago, I'll serchmy records and try to see if it's avalible if you are interested.Gary from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Tue Mar 17 15:40:04 1998 with ESMTP id 278 for ;Tue, 17 Mar 1998 14:06:35 -0600 Subject: Test...dont read have not received any mail this afternoon....have been knocked off thelist a few times in the past month...just wanted to check. Sorry Jim Kubichek from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Mar 17 17:52:58 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id SAA14261; Tue, 17 Mar199818:52:52 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodeless Quads Bill I think that the "chipping " is caused by a dull blade - it may be morenecessary to have a very sharp blade with Quads. For final planing I firstmakea passdown the side where the splice faces the blade to get a smooth cut andthendo the rest on the opposite side to advoid this problem. Chris. On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:21:02 -0800, George W. Barnes wrote: Bill:I've done only one nodeless quad but didn't experience any difference atthesplices than in other sections of the strips. As Tom once said, theyfought meall the way. They also did not bind together on glue up as well, leavingsomejoins that were discernible on close inspection. This I attributed to thesquareconfiguration not being as conducive to winding forces as a more nearlyroundcross-section. Regardless it's a fairly good feeling rod and lucky as thedevil.Caught it's limit in the first twenty minutes while fishing Allegashwater lastspring.George Bill Fink wrote: To nodeless fans,Has anyone any experience with nodeless quads? I do fine withnodeless hexand penta but am having a few problems with my first attempt at anodelessquad. The 45 degree edges seem a bit prone to chipping out at thesplices.Was wondering if it's a built-in problem or just me. Bill from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Mar 17 17:58:29 1998 Subject: Re:Earl Osten At 01:07 PM 3/17/98 -0800, you wrote:I have a copy of the Osten book in my hand. I will be happy to get infofrom, or if Sir D. you need it, let me know. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu Robert,Thanks, but I have a copy.Gary from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 17 18:32:37 1998 Subject: Re: new bamboo List members,I bought some cane from Andy royer awhile back and I didn't see anythingwrongwith any that I got. I will be ordering some from Demarests' soon so I canmake a comparison. Don't expect to see any difference as to quality. Talkedto Jeff Wagner over the weekend in Detroit and he seems real pleased withAndy's cane.Bret from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 17 20:28:05 1998 0000 Subject: Production Quantity As to the question of production rods being possible where would we drawthe line between a hobby type approach and a true attempt to build ahigh quality, high value production rod. The approach to the craft of rod building would have to be very muchdifferent than the "one off" methods of building that prevail in thecurrent stae of the business. This approach has I believe reached thelevel of dogma and indeed has stifled any creative manufacturing methodsthat are well within the scope of many on the list currently.The prevailing image of a bespectacled gnome fussing over a strip thatmikes out 1/2 thousandth out is wholly inaccurate when compared to therods of the past. If the thought that a rod is inferior if made by orwith the help of a machine the state of flyfishing itself would be verydifferent. It would have been reserved for the fortunate few who couldafford the services of a rod craftman, this would lead to the type ofclass fishing that was common on the continent not long ago. We areaided considerably by the amount of public water that we have so nodirect corolation could be made. Care should be taken in comparingsociety prior to the Second World War and that which exists after it asfar as comparing price/value.In truth we should all know that the current estimate of 40 - 60 hrsper rod holds no water even if we include time machining the ferrulesand the reelseat assemblies ourselves. Employing machines to cut theproduction time should not be viewed as a shortcut at any cost toquality but an aid in bringing the cost of bamboo within reason. We donot have to take our lead from the graphite companies and sell a $200unit for $600. True high end handcrafted rods should be available tothose that can afford the tarrif or are willing to sacrifice for it.Again this would be historically accurate.In summation, how much time would it take to build a production rod ofa high degree of quality? This would also answer how much the rods wouldhave to sell for as we would no longer be selling the sizzle, onlysubstance. The old maxim of time=money holds true if you aremanufacturing rods or automobiles. A.J.Thramer from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Tue Mar 17 21:02:29 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:01:42 -0500 Tue, 17 Mar 1998 22:01:42 -0500 Subject: Re: Nodeless Quads Chris Bogart wrote: Bill I think that the "chipping " is caused by a dull blade - it may be morenecessary to have a very sharp blade with Quads. For final planing I firstmakea passdown the side where the splice faces the blade to get a smooth cut andthendo the rest on the opposite side to advoid this problem. Chris. On Tue, 17 Mar 1998 10:21:02 -0800, George W. Barnes wrote: Bill:I've done only one nodeless quad but didn't experience any difference atthesplices than in other sections of the strips. As Tom once said, theyfoughtmeall the way. They also did not bind together on glue up as well, leavingsomejoins that were discernible on close inspection. This I attributed to thesquareconfiguration not being as conducive to winding forces as a more nearlyroundcross-section. Regardless it's a fairly good feeling rod and lucky as thedevil.Caught it's limit in the first twenty minutes while fishing Allegashwaterlastspring.George Bill Fink wrote: To nodeless fans,Has anyone any experience with nodeless quads? I do fine withnodelesshexand penta but am having a few problems with my first attempt at anodelessquad. The 45 degree edges seem a bit prone to chipping out at thesplices.Was wondering if it's a built-in problem or just me. Bill Sounds like goods advice, It might also have to do with the angle atwhick the blade is sharpened. from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Mar 17 21:13:50 1998 Subject: Re to Russ: Web/restoration photos Russ, really beautiful stuff on the restorations. I am impressed! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Golden Witch Subject: New Web/restoration photosDate: Monday, March 16, 1998 4:27 PM Hi again, Thanks to everyone who took the time to look at my website demo theother day. It worked for some, but not for others. Finally though wehaveworked most of the bugs out of it and have posted it to the regular URL:http://www.goldenwitch.com . As before, ignore the commercial hypeandtakea look at the restoration gallery under the restoration services. Ithinkmost of you will appreciate them. Also, the Colonial Angler's stuff ispretty interesting.Comments, positive or negative, are welcome. I want this site to bebroadly appealing so feedback really is appreciated. Thanks, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com from gwr@seanet.com Tue Mar 17 21:31:15 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA08335 for; Subject: Re: Re to Russ: Web/restoration photos Robert, Thanks for taking the time to look at the site. Glad you liked thephotos. Russ-----Original Message----- Subject: Re to Russ: Web/restoration photos Russ, really beautiful stuff on the restorations. I am impressed! Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Golden Witch Subject: New Web/restoration photosDate: Monday, March 16, 1998 4:27 PM Hi again, Thanks to everyone who took the time to look at my website demo theother day. It worked for some, but not for others. Finally though wehaveworked most of the bugs out of it and have posted it to the regular URL:http://www.goldenwitch.com . As before, ignore the commercial hypeandtakea look at the restoration gallery under the restoration services. Ithinkmost of you will appreciate them. Also, the Colonial Angler's stuff ispretty interesting.Comments, positive or negative, are welcome. I want this site to bebroadly appealing so feedback really is appreciated. Thanks, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com from jczimny@dol.net Tue Mar 17 22:30:26 1998 Subject: Re: Nodeless Quads Chris, Bill et al,Quad corners are extremely delicate. They seem to splinter at a harshlook.They aredifficult to make and cause premature aging. Look at me, I'm only 27.Besides that, I like nodes. You shouldn't oughtta cut out the nodes.Zimny from dickay@alltel.net Wed Mar 18 04:23:20 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA3E04 0600 Subject: Lathe Info Dave RinkerPlease contact me off-list with your mailing address. I have South BendLathe information that I can send you.Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Mar 18 07:03:10 1998 0700 Subject: Test Test - please ignore from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Mar 18 07:09:35 1998 0700 Test message - please ignore from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Mar 18 10:34:22 1998 1997)) id862565CB.00592413 ; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 10:13:39 -0600 Subject: Test - Don't Read Testing.... from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Wed Mar 18 10:51:42 1998 0700 Subject: Thought spring was about here but Good day all, Thought spring was about here but we had about 24>36" of snow downsouth -guess I'll wait a few days or weeks. Back to the shop. Don from thramer@presys.com Wed Mar 18 11:44:57 1998 0000 Subject: Production Quantity Organization: A.J. Thramer Bamboo Rods Subject: Production Quantity As to the question of production rods being possible where would we drawthe line between a hobby type approach and a true attempt to build ahigh quality, high value production rod. The approach to the craft of rod building would have to be very muchdifferent than the "one off" methods of building that prevail in thecurrent stae of the business. This approach has I believe reached thelevel of dogma and indeed has stifled any creative manufacturing methodsthat are well within the scope of many on the list currently.The prevailing image of a bespectacled gnome fussing over a strip thatmikes out 1/2 thousandth out is wholly inaccurate when compared to therods of the past. If the thought that a rod is inferior if made by orwith the help of a machine the state of flyfishing itself would be verydifferent. It would have been reserved for the fortunate few who couldafford the services of a rod craftman, this would lead to the type ofclass fishing that was common on the continent not long ago. We areaided considerably by the amount of public water that we have so nodirect corolation could be made. Care should be taken in comparingsociety prior to the Second World War and that which exists after it asfar as comparing price/value.In truth we should all know that the current estimate of 40 - 60 hrsper rod holds no water even if we include time machining the ferrulesand the reelseat assemblies ourselves. Employing machines to cut theproduction time should not be viewed as a shortcut at any cost toquality but an aid in bringing the cost of bamboo within reason. We donot have to take our lead from the graphite companies and sell a $200unit for $600. True high end handcrafted rods should be available tothose that can afford the tarrif or are willing to sacrifice for it.Again this would be historically accurate.In summation, how much time would it take to build a production rod ofa high degree of quality? This would also answer how much the rods wouldhave to sell for as we would no longer be selling the sizzle, onlysubstance. The old maxim of time=money holds true if you aremanufacturing rods or automobiles. A.J.Thramer from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Mar 18 12:39:24 1998 Subject: Re: Colour of nodal area. In a message dated 3/16/98 10:36:57 PM Pacific Standard Time,sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com writes: Since I am not certain about this, I have to ask you guys. Is the colour of the fibres supposed to be the same in the nodal area and between nodes?I have split my culm in six pieces and I found some darker areas fromsome ofthe nodes. Could it be some kind mold or fungus? Should I go to nodelessrod with this culm? I've been waiting for the more knowledgeable people to answer this one,but with all the culms I've ever dealt with the nodes have been lighterthan the internodal areas. One test you can do is take a sacrificial stripand bend it until it breaks to see if it breaks at the affected node. Whilewe are on this subject, every time I have had a strip break while testinglike this, I have never had a strip break at a node. Why then, does everyone say the nodes are the weakest spot? Seems to me that the nodes are the strongest part. Darryl Hayashida from thramer@presys.com Wed Mar 18 17:38:12 1998 0000 Subject: FF Magazine Upon perusing the new issue of FF it would seem more than likely that Iam completely out of touch with the current state of the business. Theemphasis is completely out of synch with the type of fishing that I do,indeed with the why of fishing that I do.My brother has mentioned that the FF mags promote the same lunacy thatthe mountain biking mags that he reads have promoted. He calls it the'techno weenie' disease.Is this snapshot of FF a truism or is it some warped view thrust uponus by the manufacturers and their shills at the magazines?A.J.Thramer from Fishstink@aol.com Wed Mar 18 17:51:17 1998 Subject: Re: FF Magazine It is thrust upon us from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Mar 18 18:00:23 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Dip finish question boundary="------------1F57748A0BD8AB06200D0D74" --------------1F57748A0BD8AB06200D0D74 List, I need a little insight into the fine-tuning of my dip varnishsetup. Each time I varnish a section I mask the ferrule withtape. When the tape is removed, there is an unsightly area ofthe finish that doesn't clean up as crisp and clean as I'dlike. Steel wool dampened with thinner is my best idea yet.Got any suggestions?Harry Boyd (fbcwin@fsbnet.com) --------------1F57748A0BD8AB06200D0D74 List, I need a little insight into the fine-tuning of my dip varnish the tape is removed, there is an unsightly area of the finish that doesn't Harry Boyd (fbcwin@fsbnet.com) --------------1F57748A0BD8AB06200D0D74-- from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Mar 18 18:18:09 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA146506531; Wed, 18 Mar 1998 16:15:31 -0800 Subject: RE: Dip Finish Question One thing that helps is to use a single layer of thin tape at the edge you varnish to. Any leaks can be cleaned up with thinner etc. while it's still green. This cuts down on the depth of your edge. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Mar 18 18:28:54 1998 Subject: Re: Dip finish question Harry: What kind of tape are you using? I use several wraps of clear packing tape(nonreinforced). Make sure it is sealed at the top so varnish doesn't creepin. --Rich from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Mar 18 18:42:03 1998 Thu, 19 Mar 1998 08:41:52 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Thought spring was about here but On Wed, 18 Mar 1998, Don Andersen wrote: Good day all, Thought spring was about here but we had about 24>36" of snow downsouth -guess I'll wait a few days or weeks. Back to the shop. Don I keep forgeting, white stuff, cold, wet? /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Mar 18 18:59:53 1998 Subject: Re: Thought spring was about here but I keep forgeting, white stuff, cold, wet? YEP! from KDLoup@aol.com Wed Mar 18 19:18:29 1998 Subject: Re: Dip finish question Harry,I wrap guides and ferrules after dipping, so I varnish over the ferruleserrations. I use masking tape above this area. Any rough edge at thetransition can be smoothed down with fine sandpaper or steel wool. Aftervarnish is feathered, I wrap over this area. No problems. Kurt Loup from channer@frontier.net Wed Mar 18 19:31:00 1998 Subject: FF magazine A.J.;Don't let it get you down, I think that those of us out here on the fringeprobably get more satisfaction and have more fun out of our time on theriver. I see many guys on the San Juan driven to catch more and bigger fishthan any one else and I know I'm having more fun with the few I catch.Toeach his own.John Channer from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Wed Mar 18 20:11:01 1998 mailfep2-hme1 via d.SPEbin-1.20,43b3b3 (GMT) Subject: Re: FF magazine type="54455854"; john channer wrote: A.J.;Don't let it get you down, I think that those of us out here on thefringeprobably get more satisfaction and have more fun out of our time ontheriver. I see many guys on the San Juan driven to catch more and biggerfishthan any one else and I know I'm having more fun with the few Icatch.Toeach his own.John Channer If I might add my 2 cents:Years ago I learned not to let the fish ruin agood day's fishing. You know, sometimes the fish just don't want tocooperate! Ever since I learned that simple lesson, I enjoy the momentwhether I'm catching fish or just day dreaming about catching fish. Bestway to keep from getting 'ticked' at the FF press is to avoid readingthem. Remember, publishers print magazines to sell ad space -- contentjust fills the 'dead space' between the ads -- and the people creatingthe ads ... well, enough said. Personally, I hope bamboo rods neverbecome popular -- not much of a chance anyway. Because if they would,bamboo might be reduced to being just another 'fad' for massconsumption. It suits me fine to produce and sell a small number ofhigh-quality, hand-built rods... to a small number of discriminatingpatrons. This is the market where I care to devote my labors. Regards,Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from lblan@provide.net Wed Mar 18 20:25:59 1998 Subject: Re: FF Magazine Some time back, I opened my new issue of Rod and Reel to the fly of themonth. It had a plastic lip that somehow brought images to my mind of aRapala. The timing was perfect.... it was the last issue before thesubscription expired! I really think that the magazines are printing articles aimed at promotingnew business for their advertisers..... the latest and greatest plastic rod, I think the "techno-weenie" is the natural evolution.... created by theconstant bombardment of advertising pushing the latest technology. Just one more reason to be thankful for fishing buddies and Trout Bums! -----Original Message----- Subject: FF Magazine Upon perusing the new issue of FF it would seem more than likely that Iam completely out of touch with the current state of the business. Theemphasis is completely out of synch with the type of fishing that I do,indeed with the why of fishing that I do.My brother has mentioned that the FF mags promote the same lunacythatthe mountain biking mags that he reads have promoted. He calls it the'techno weenie' disease.Is this snapshot of FF a truism or is it some warped view thrust uponus by the manufacturers and their shills at the magazines?A.J.Thramer from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 18 21:12:22 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Nodeless Quads Yeah, John,And last November was the anniversary of my 16th birthday.Hank-I'm only as old as I feel-Woolman. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Mar 18 21:19:44 1998 Subject: Re: FF magazine A.J.,I find the emphasis on "tech" a little off putting myself. But what arethose poor guys to do?You can't market the same old stuff so you come upwith"0" and "1" wgt. rods for "delicate" presentation over "sophisticated trout".B.S for sure-I've fished over tough trout with a 71/2' ,5 wgt and if Ineededa more delicate approach I lengthened my leader-the Madison ave boyshavetaken over the graphite game for sure.Regards,Hank. from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Mar 18 22:49:23 1998 Subject: Re: Dip finish question In a message dated 98-03-18 19:04:35 EST, you write: Dear Harry Yes, I've got one. If you want to experiment with this type of process, I'llnot corrupt or dissuade you, but only suggest clean Micro-Mesh or Scotch- Britepads as safer alternatives. You don't want steel wool getting near uncuredvarnish, especially if it's gummy from thinner or other solvents, no youdon't. Davy from Paul.Witcher@Digital.com Thu Mar 19 05:20:39 1998 Subject: Magazine's boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BD5328.FCAA447A" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD5328.FCAA447A Hi all, I am a new reader to rodmakers, let me start by saying that it's mostfascinating and enjoyable. Over on the other side of the pond (uk) thefiner points of cane splitting are difficult to acquire. You all seem tobe out to help each other as much as you can - this is refreshing in ourshit or bust world we seem to live in. I was interested to read thecomments on the magazines, in the uk we have a very good mag calledWaterlog - it's manly concerned with course fishing - but there is alittle on trout - but more importantly it has the spirit of angling.They have a web page athttp://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/waterlog.htmlit's worth a look. Regards Paul Witcher ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD5328.FCAA447A Magazine's Hi all, I am a new reader to rodmakers, letme =start by saying that it's most fascinating and enjoyable. Over on the =other side of the pond (uk) the finer points of cane splitting are =difficult to acquire. You all seem to be out to help each other as much =as you can - this is refreshing in our shit or bust world we seem to =live in. I was interested to read the comments on the magazines, in the =uk we have a very good mag called Waterlog - it's manly concerned with =course fishing - but there is a little on trout - but more importantly =it has the spirit of angling. They have a web page at =http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/waterlog.html it's worth a look. Regards Paul Witcher ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD5328.FCAA447A-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Mar 19 07:58:37 1998 0700 Subject: And we can't agree on anything Guys, Had a guy over yesterday who is just starting the cane building businessand attempting to understand the processes involved. As I went into myspiel, I realized from the contact I've had over the past 15 years withfolks that build cane rods that we don't agree on much. Well, maybe acouple of things with a couple of exceptions. Cane Suppliers: There are at least two with their fans Cane Splitting: At least three methods Cane Tempering: At least 4>5 methods and don't let us get intotemperatures/time stuff Forms: Push/pull, Garrison method and now milling machines Binders: At least 3 systems using a host of binding cords, drive belts andthe rest Planes: Most of us agree on the 9 1/2 with fans of both Stanley and Record.The sharpening angle is about 36>40 degrees. This is one point where mostfolks do agree - the sharpening angle Glues: At least 4 are prevalent - Shell epon, Urac, Titebond II andresorcinol Node or Nodeless - the jury is still out How many Strips: 4 or 5 or 6 or ? Tempering: Before final planning or before Humidity Control: For those that live in soggy places Finishes: Varnish, Varathane, Tung Oil, animal droppings and who knowswhatelse Guides: Perfections, Pac Bay, H&H, make 'em yourself, single or doublefoot, Fugi [ugh] Wrappings: Nylon or Silk - and don't forget the variegations Color Persever or not: and the bunch of methods And so on and so on. There was a discussion of how to use the best process to build the bestrodsome months ago. Don't think we've arrived there yet. So I unconfused the poor bugger and told him how I do it. Then, when hegets a few cane cuts, he can figure it out for himself. regards, Don from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Mar 19 08:26:54 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Dip finish question Thanks Davy, and others who responded. As usual you guys reminded me ofsomethings I should have known already. Truly 400+ heads are better than one,andyetat the same time someone said that a camel is the result of a horse built committee!Thanks,Harry Ragnarig wrote: snip varnish, especially if it's gummy from thinner or other solvents, no youdon't.Davy from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Mar 19 10:56:27 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA24516 +0100 Subject: Sv: And we can't agree on anything KAA10338 Don wrote (snipped) So I unconfused the poor bugger and told him how I do it. Then, when hegets a few cane cuts, he can figure it out for himself. I wish I could Carsten cmj@post11.tele.dk from ISHIKAWA@ipmet1.ipmet.unesp.br Thu Mar 19 11:25:35 1998 4.1/UCB5.64/4.03) Subject: TEST Quiet. from thramer@presys.com Thu Mar 19 12:00:34 1998 0000 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on anything Don Andersen wrote: Guys, Had a guy over yesterday who is just starting the cane building businessand attempting to understand the processes involved. As I went into myspiel, I realized from the contact I've had over the past 15 years withfolks that build cane rods that we don't agree on much. Well, maybe acouple of things with a couple of exceptions. Cane Suppliers: There are at least two with their fans Cane Splitting: At least three methods Cane Tempering: At least 4>5 methods and don't let us get intotemperatures/time stuff Forms: Push/pull, Garrison method and now milling machines Binders: At least 3 systems using a host of binding cords, drive belts andthe rest Planes: Most of us agree on the 9 1/2 with fans of both Stanley andRecord.The sharpening angle is about 36>40 degrees. This is one point wheremostfolks do agree - the sharpening angle Glues: At least 4 are prevalent - Shell epon, Urac, Titebond II andresorcinol Node or Nodeless - the jury is still out How many Strips: 4 or 5 or 6 or ? Tempering: Before final planning or before Humidity Control: For those that live in soggy places Finishes: Varnish, Varathane, Tung Oil, animal droppings and who knowswhatelse Guides: Perfections, Pac Bay, H&H, make 'em yourself, single or doublefoot, Fugi [ugh] Wrappings: Nylon or Silk - and don't forget the variegations Color Persever or not: and the bunch of methods And so on and so on. There was a discussion of how to use the best process to build the bestrodsome months ago. Don't think we've arrived there yet. So I unconfused the poor bugger and told him how I do it. Then, when hegets a few cane cuts, he can figure it out for himself. regards, Don Hi Don,I think that we can all agree that the best rod is made out of bamboothough!A.J. Thramer from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Mar 19 12:36:48 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 19Mar 1998 11:37:59 -0400 Subject: Re: FF Magazine I don't mean to throw a kink in the spline, but I have to think about the FF business in a different way. Us marketers (sounds so evil) want to give the consumer what they want. Now, if the market wants to spend 300 plus on a plastic broom stick because it's the latest technology...good for them, but that is what they want. If these magazines were not hitting their target market, they would not be in business. I wish bamboo rodmakers presented a larger market than it does...the streams would be a much nicer place, but they don't. Like the rapala story, I dropped my subscription to American Angler when they were promoting the use of plastic worm tails on flies. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from CALucker@aol.com Thu Mar 19 13:12:48 1998 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on anything You haven't even mentioned all the disagreement over milling cutters:High speed steel vs. carbide?number of teeth?diameter of cutter? cutting angle? 60, 60.5 or 61.5?relief angle that needs to be ground4000 feet per second cut rate, or what?Climb cut vs. conventional cutThomas/Payne/Hawes/Leonard-type beveler vs conventional mill/shapervsTalbot/Winston thing vs Powell saw vs that goofy thing that cuts sixstrips ata time. One thing is for sure, other than adhesives, there really hasn't been muchofanything new in bamboo rod building. I can think of only a couple ofinnovations that made me say "now that guy is clever!" Jack Byrd's winchthatuses stretched nylon rope bind/straighten glued rod sections and TomMorgan'snew planing tools. I don't know if Byrd's contraption works, but it sure isclever. And as far as Morgan's tools, I believe Tom and Per Brandin whentheysay it's the best planing method around. It is so simple, I don't know whyitwasn't made popular much earlier! from thramer@presys.com Thu Mar 19 14:08:13 1998 0000 0000Message-ID: Subject: Re: Production Quantity A.J.Thramer wrote: As to the question of production rods being possible where would wedrawthe line between a hobby type approach and a true attempt to build ahigh quality, high value production rod.The approach to the craft of rod building would have to be very muchdifferent than the "one off" methods of building that prevail in thecurrent stae of the business. This approach has I believe reached thelevel of dogma and indeed has stifled any creative manufacturingmethodsthat are well within the scope of many on the list currently.The prevailing image of a bespectacled gnome fussing over a strip thatmikes out 1/2 thousandth out is wholly inaccurate when compared to therods of the past. If the thought that a rod is inferior if made by orwith the help of a machine the state of flyfishing itself would be verydifferent. It would have been reserved for the fortunate few who couldafford the services of a rod craftman, this would lead to the type ofclass fishing that was common on the continent not long ago. We areaided considerably by the amount of public water that we have so nodirect corolation could be made. Care should be taken in comparingsociety prior to the Second World War and that which exists after it asfar as comparing price/value.In truth we should all know that the current estimate of 40 - 60 hrsper rod holds no water even if we include time machining the ferrulesand the reelseat assemblies ourselves. Employing machines to cut theproduction time should not be viewed as a shortcut at any cost toquality but an aid in bringing the cost of bamboo within reason. We donot have to take our lead from the graphite companies and sell a $200unit for $600. True high end handcrafted rods should be available tothose that can afford the tarrif or are willing to sacrifice for it.Again this would be historically accurate.In summation, how much time would it take to build a production rod ofa high degree of quality? This would also answer how much the rodswouldhave to sell for as we would no longer be selling the sizzle, onlysubstance. The old maxim of time=money holds true if you aremanufacturing rods or automobiles.A.J.Thramerx from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Mar 19 17:37:09 1998 Subject: Re: Re: FF Magazine I gave up on the fly fishing mags a long time ago FF, FTer and the reststink.I got a subs to the Bamboo mag and I buy a mag from the UK called FlytyingandFlyfishing and they are the only ones worth getting. As a matter of fact Iamgoing to be selling all my back issues of FF and Fter and the rest going allthe way back to the 70s.Bret from JDemp1@aol.com Thu Mar 19 19:28:44 1998 Subject: Re: Web page for tapers Reed ----the spec's are correct, it was a long time ago. Funny nobody mademention of the ferrule size on the small Payne para-------just some foodforthought for y'alljd from WDHCJL@aol.com Thu Mar 19 22:04:30 1998 Subject: Re: new bamboo In a message dated 98-03-16 18:11:50 EST, you write: I was hoping that you could explain a bit further, were these culms fromthesame batch? I may be misunderstanding, but it seems that there wouldnot bemuch gained from testing bamboo that all came from the same batch. After all,that would be like comparing lumber from the same tree in order toqualify itto a larger standard. Given the previous concerns, how does this answerthoseconcerns that regarded comparing bamboo from different sources?thanksdoug from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 19 22:23:13 1998 Subject: mail All;Please excuse this non-rodmaking questionbut, have there only been 4postings all day today, or am I not getting all of them??????????John Channer from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Mar 19 23:51:47 1998 Subject: Re: mail John,Don't worry, you're not going crazy.Where is everybody?... Rob P.S. Many thanks to A.J. for provoking so much thought and discussion onthelist. from wfmack@evansville.net Fri Mar 20 01:04:01 1998 bytes) by world.evansville.netvia sendmail with P:smtp/R:inet_hosts/T:smtp(sender: ) ()(Smail-3.2.0.98 1997-Oct-16 #4 built 1997-Nov-24) Subject: Re: temporary unsubscribe Folks--I'll be moving to Des Moines on Saturday so I'll be temporarilyunsubscribing for awhile until settled. I'll let you know when I'mback. Bill from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Mar 20 07:48:30 1998 Subject: Re: FF Magazine Dear Bret I buy a mag from the UK called Flytying andFlyfishing from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Mar 20 08:19:14 1998 1997)) id862565CD.004E285A ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 08:13:41 -0600 Subject: Re: Production Quantity I've been watching this thread with all its variations with interest overthe past few weeks. I have some questions which may or may not havegeneralanswers, but that I think we all need to answer for ourselves. Why would anyone want to build bamboo rods in production quantities?Thiscould certainly be done with modern manufacturing engineering techniques(just give me the financial backing and my mfg. engineering buddies and Iwill put that project together), but again, why? For the company owner toget rich? Probably not, because the market wouldn't be there. Maybe Orvisand Winston know something (that would be marketing in its fullestsense). everyone fished bamboo? I doubt it. Besides, personally, I like the conceptof a cottage industry, albiet people typically aren't able to make a livingturning out rods the way they do in, say the outer Hebrides where HarrisTweed fabric is made in dozens of cottages. What's the big deal about bamboo vs graphite vs fiberglass? Each issuperior in its own way. I own and fish all three. I've watched withamusement and sadness as people have berated "plastic" rods. What is thepoint of that? It only makes for bad feelings. If you'll excuse my"French," this amounts to a kids' pissing contest, with no pointwhatsoever. In the end it comes down to what someone on the list said or quoted inearly December: It isn't about what the toys are made of, it's aboutwearing them out with friends you love. Perhaps that's where we shouldconcentrate our energy. Thanks for the forum. Regards,Ed Estlow from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Mar 20 08:50:32 1998 Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:49:13 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Production Quantity On Fri, 20 Mar 1998 eestlow@srminc.com wrote: I've been watching this thread with all its variations with interest overthe past few weeks. I have some questions which may or may not havegeneralanswers, but that I think we all need to answer for ourselves. Why would anyone want to build bamboo rods in production quantities?Thiscould certainly be done with modern manufacturing engineeringtechniques(just give me the financial backing and my mfg. engineering buddies and Iwill put that project together), but again, why? For the company ownertoget rich? Probably not, because the market wouldn't be there. MaybeOrvisand Winston know something (that would be marketing in its fullestsense). everyone fished bamboo? I doubt it. Besides, personally, I like theconceptof a cottage industry, albiet people typically aren't able to make a livingturning out rods the way they do in, say the outer Hebrides where HarrisTweed fabric is made in dozens of cottages. What's the big deal about bamboo vs graphite vs fiberglass? Each issuperior in its own way. I own and fish all three. I've watched withamusement and sadness as people have berated "plastic" rods. What isthepoint of that? It only makes for bad feelings. If you'll excuse my"French," this amounts to a kids' pissing contest, with no pointwhatsoever. In the end it comes down to what someone on the list said or quoted inearly December: It isn't about what the toys are made of, it's aboutwearing them out with friends you love. Perhaps that's where we shouldconcentrate our energy. Thanks for the forum. Regards,Ed Estlow Some-one carve this post in stone. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from EMiller257@aol.com Fri Mar 20 09:12:21 1998 Subject: Re: Production Quantity Ed, nice sentiment. Youre right on. Life is too short. We love bamboo causeitstirs our soul and deserves the kind of company you mention. Ed M from Paul.Witcher@Digital.com Fri Mar 20 09:17:52 1998 Subject: Magazine's boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BD5410.E9118E76" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD5410.E9118E76 Hi all, I am a new reader to rodmakers, let me start by saying that it's mostfascinating and enjoyable. Over on the other side of the pond (uk) thefiner points of cane splitting are difficult to acquire. You all seem tobe out to help each other as much as you can - this is refreshing in ourshit or bust world we seem to live in. I was interested to read thecomments on the magazines, in the uk we have a very good mag calledWaterlog - it's manly concerned with course fishing - but there is alittle on trout - but more importantly it has the spirit of angling.They have a web page athttp://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/waterlog.htmlit's worth a look. Regards Paul Witcher ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD5410.E9118E76 Magazine's Hi all, I am a new reader to rodmakers, letme =start by saying that it's most fascinating and enjoyable. Over on the =other side of the pond (uk) the finer points of cane splitting are =difficult to acquire. You all seem to be out to help each other as much =as you can - this is refreshing in our shit or bust world we seem to =live in. I was interested to read the comments on the magazines, in the =uk we have a very good mag called Waterlog - it's manly concerned with =course fishing - but there is a little on trout - but more importantly =it has the spirit of angling. They have a web page at =http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/waterlog.html it's worth a look. Regards Paul Witcher ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD5410.E9118E76-- from Paul.Witcher@Digital.com Fri Mar 20 09:23:43 1998 Subject: Magazine boundary="---- =_NextPart_001_01BD5412.8E7931F6" This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does notunderstandthis format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD5412.8E7931F6 /** [Paul Witcher] Hi all, I am a new reader to rodmakers, let me start by saying that it's mostfascinating and enjoyable. Over on the other side of the pond (uk) thefiner points of cane splitting are difficult to acquire. You all seem tobe out to help each other as much as you can - this is refreshing in ourshit or bust world we seem to live in. I was interested to read thecomments on the magazines, in the uk we have a very good mag calledWaterlog - it's manly concerned with course fishing - but there is alittle on trout - but more importantly it has the spirit of angling.They have a web page athttp://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/waterlog.htmlit's worth a look. Regards Paul Witcher *********************************************************************/ ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD5412.8E7931F6 Magazine /** [Paul I am a new reader to rodmakers, letme =start by saying that it's most fascinating and enjoyable. Over on the =other side of the pond (uk) the finer points of cane splitting are =difficult to acquire. You all seem to be out to help each other as much =as you can - this is refreshing in our shit or bust world we seem to =live in. I was interested to read the comments on the magazines, in the =uk we have a very good mag called Waterlog - it's manly concerned with =course fishing - but there is a little on trout - but more importantly =it has the spirit of angling. They have a web page at =http://www.demon.co.uk/medlarpress/waterlog.html it's worth a look. Regards Paul Witcher ******************/ ------ =_NextPart_001_01BD5412.8E7931F6-- from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Mar 20 09:59:07 1998 (4.1/SMI-4.0); Fri, 20 Mar 98 08:45:31 CST Subject: Re: mail At 08:08 PM 3/19/98, john channer wrote:All;Please excuse this non- rodmaking questionbut, have there only been 4postings all day today, or am I not getting all of them?????????? As you all probably have noticed, the list has had it's "ups & downs" thepast few days. We had it back for a while there and then it was back downagain. They are still trying to work out the problems. Let's hope it getsback on stable ground again soon... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from MMills1189@aol.com Fri Mar 20 10:41:14 1998 Subject: Planes Hello All, The name is Mark. I am new to the list and to this bamboo "sport". I amenjoying reading and learning from you all . A quick question, if someonewillbe kind enough to answer: What is the correct angle in which to sharpentheplane for bamboo processing, and what is the best (easiest) way to aquirethisangle. from saweiss@flash.net Fri Mar 20 11:02:55 1998 Subject: Re: Planes -----Original Message----- Subject: Planes Hello All,The name is Mark. I am new to the list and to this bamboo "sport". I amenjoying reading and learning from you all . A quick question, if someonewillbe kind enough to answer: What is the correct angle in which to sharpentheplane for bamboo processing, and what is the best (easiest) way to aquirethisangle. Let me add my question to Mark's.What are the preferred planes? Is a low- angle plane of benefit? Garrisonused several,so I assume that he had a special purpose for each of them. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Mar 20 11:52:31 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Planes About planes, The single plane of choice for most of us is a 9 1/2 made by either Recordor Stanley. Record has better steel in the blade. The 9 1/2 blade issharpened to about 36>40 degrees. The low angle plane is of limited use. Iuse mine for roughing out the strips. Other persons have used it for finalplanning. Don At 10:08 20/03/98 -0700, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: MMills1189 Date: Friday, March 20, 1998 9:48 AMSubject: Planes Hello All,The name is Mark. I am new to the list and to this bamboo "sport". I amenjoying reading and learning from you all . A quick question, if someonewillbe kind enough to answer: What is the correct angle in which to sharpentheplane for bamboo processing, and what is the best (easiest) way toacquirethisangle. Let me add my question to Mark's.What are the preferred planes? Is a low- angle plane of benefit? Garrisonused several,so I assume that he had a special purpose for each of them. from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Fri Mar 20 11:57:59 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 20 Mar 98 12:57:12 EST Subject: Re: Planes Mark, I think lots use either 25 or 30 degree angles for a 9 1/2 Stanleyplane or similar. Setting the angle is done using a variety of jigs. Onejig to hold the blade firmly while sharpening (e.g., a Veritas), and one toset the angle or the distance from the edge of the blade to the honeingjig. For a great discussion of sharpening and the methods of doing so seeL. Lee's book on Sharpening, also useful is the Hock (blade) web site (Bothsources show pictures of the jigs I mentioned.) Have fun. B. At 11:39 AM 3/20/98 EST, you wrote:Hello All,The name is Mark. I am new to the list and to this bamboo "sport". I amenjoying reading and learning from you all . A quick question, if someonewillbe kind enough to answer: What is the correct angle in which to sharpentheplane for bamboo processing, and what is the best (easiest) way to aquirethisangle. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Mar 20 12:34:28 1998 Subject: Re: Production Quantity Ed,See below: eestlow@srminc.com wrote:Why would anyone want to build bamboo rods in production quantities? I can assume nothing about A.J.'s intent, but I can appreciate why onewould want to do it. But first, I'll suggest a defintion of "production" that was true forthe shops like Edwards, F.E. Thomas, etc., "a number of craftsmensharing their skills/labor in the creation of each rod". One man runsthe strips through the beveler, another glues and straightens, etc.I believe that with a small operation (4-6 people) while it would be"production", nevertheless it would be possible to maintain excellentquality while reducing prices. Paying for a decent beveler is difficult a specific complex taper easy. Since we have in previous discussionscome to a certain agreement that the taper is the axis of performance,then, when a particularly good taper is developed (by whatever means) itwould probably be the earnest wish of the rodmaker to produce a line ofrods with said taper. I would guess that the biggest draw for someone to move intocreating aproduction shop would be the opportunity to earn a living doing what heenjoys ---- seeking the elusive "perfect taper" and watching rods grow. What's the big deal about bamboo vs graphite vs fiberglass? Each issuperior in its own way. I own and fish all three. I've watched withamusement and sadness as people have berated "plastic" rods. What isthepoint of that? It only makes for bad feelings. If you'll excuse my"French," this amounts to a kids' pissing contest, with no pointwhatsoever. I haven't noticed much of this. There may be some talk of the FRPindustry gulling the public, but usually there is a tacit admission thatFRP rods have their uses.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Mar 20 12:52:54 1998 Subject: Re: FF Magazine A.J.,You're absolutely right. But it isn't just the "techno" issue it is thecompetition aspect as well. We used to go fishing, now people go"catching", striving for 100 fish days. And they don't even eat the fishthey catch!A few years ago I decided to compare the modern FF mag to the early70's "Rod & Reel" and "Fly Fisherman". If memory serves the followingwas true: looking just at the covers only, all but one of the modernissues showed an angler holding a large salmonoid, whereas most of theold mags showed the setting; a mountain stream, a fisherman walkingalong a barbed wire fence with no water in sight, John Voelker sittingin the rain smoking a cigar, etc. Doesn't this say something?Some of the old mags had do-it-yourself columns (How to build alunchbox fly tying kit), one had a regular Garrison column on caring forrods. I'm sure modern advertisers would never permit the mags toencourage such cost saving measures among their readership.But on the bright side, look at how much money we save onsubscriptions.Best regards,Reed from ghinde@inconnect.com Fri Mar 20 12:57:22 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Production Quantity Ed; Works for me. George Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com----------From: eestlow@srminc.com Subject: Re: Production QuantityDate: Friday, March 20, 1998 7:20 AM I've been watching this thread with all its variations with interest overthe past few weeks. I have some questions which may or may not havegeneralanswers, but that I think we all need to answer for ourselves. Why would anyone want to build bamboo rods in production quantities?Thiscould certainly be done with modern manufacturing engineeringtechniques(just give me the financial backing and my mfg. engineering buddies and Iwill put that project together), but again, why? For the company ownertoget rich? Probably not, because the market wouldn't be there. MaybeOrvisand Winston know something (that would be marketing in its fullestsense). everyone fished bamboo? I doubt it. Besides, personally, I like theconceptof a cottage industry, albiet people typically aren't able to make alivingturning out rods the way they do in, say the outer Hebrides where HarrisTweed fabric is made in dozens of cottages. What's the big deal about bamboo vs graphite vs fiberglass? Each issuperior in its own way. I own and fish all three. I've watched withamusement and sadness as people have berated "plastic" rods. What isthepoint of that? It only makes for bad feelings. If you'll excuse my"French," this amounts to a kids' pissing contest, with no pointwhatsoever. In the end it comes down to what someone on the list said or quoted inearly December: It isn't about what the toys are made of, it's aboutwearing them out with friends you love. Perhaps that's where we shouldconcentrate our energy. Thanks for the forum. Regards,Ed Estlow from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Fri Mar 20 13:17:23 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);20 Mar 98 14:21:30 EST EST Subject: PacBay Web Page Does anyone know if PacBay has a web page?Thanks,Joe Mulvey from dhaftel@att.com Fri Mar 20 13:28:06 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 08:53:19-0500 Subject: RE: mail 4.0.995.52 Although I hate to admit it, I occasionally have to take breaks from thelist to get some work done. I'll try not to let it happen too often.After all, we've got to do something to pay for all these toys...(?) Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Nodewrrior [SMTP:Nodewrrior@aol.com]Sent: Friday, March 20, 1998 12:51 AM Subject: Re: mail John,Don't worry, you're not going crazy.Where is everybody?... Rob P.S. Many thanks to A.J. for provoking so much thought and discussion onthelist. from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Mar 20 13:31:04 1998 Subject: Re: Planes Speaking of sharpening, I would like to update the Planing Form article ondiamond paste sharpening with a leather clad wheel. I've found that thediamond lapping compound, which is a bit expensive, is only necessarywithcarbide tipped blades. Standard and Hock blades can be sharpened with ahoningcompound available from Woodcraft. It comes as a green bar, and $20 willbuyyou a lifetime supply. cutting a 5 3/4" circle out of a 2 X 6, truing it up and covering the ODwitha strip of smooth leather. The wheel is then mounted on a motor or pillowblock rig and used just like a grinder. I haven't used a bench stone since Iset this rig up. I have it permanently set up with the right angle for myblades, and sharpening is a quick, no-brainer operation. from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Fri Mar 20 14:20:59 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 20 Mar 98 15:20:15 EST Subject: Re: FF Magazine I've been enjoying this series on the FF and FRR type mags. I can't helpbut get a chuckle out of those fat bows which always seem to grace thecovers, as if there were nothing else of interest to us fishing folk. Notvery imaginative. To be fair though I did like the piece on west slopecuts in the last issue of FF and often benefit from this column, and Iusually enjoy the essays on the back pages of both mag., Nick Lyons and JG.But in the middle of all that there is a lot of nutty stuff. I can'tbelieve anyone really takes it seriously. Do they? Yesterday the new issue of the Atlantic Salmon Journal arrived. On thecover is a beautiful water color by John Swan. Two guides sitting on eachend of a Grand Laker canoe and a fellow casting off to a distant rise inthe middle. The scene is some northern river, the rod is clearly old cane(or so I imagine) and it looks much like a Winslow Homer. The back pagehas a snapshot of The Fishing House on the River Dove, not a great photoreally but curious. This is where Charles Cotton fished in ca 1676 andwrote the Compleat Angler (or borrowed the text from a previous bk). Idon't mean to say this mag has it over the others, but maybe amidst all thenonsense there is some really meaningful stuff. I recall awhile back agreat photo essay on AK with one shot of a mosquito in a cup of coffee.There you had it, the essence of fishing AK, and probably alot of otherplaces. I like Jim Teene and his lines, think his line of hooks are firstrate, but I don't really need to see him holding another king salmon. Ilike graphite rods, and think they have a place, but I don't really think Ineed a faster rod, or a faster, fancy truck for that matter. But what I'mreally not sure about is whether I should get the High density, high speed,type IV, salt water taper, with extra long running line in green, blue orthe new Orvis stealth grey? --B. thge At 01:53 PM 3/20/98 -0500, you wrote:A.J.,You're absolutely right. But it isn't just the "techno" issue it is thecompetition aspect as well. We used to go fishing, now people go"catching", striving for 100 fish days. And they don't even eat the fishthey catch!A few years ago I decided to compare the modern FF mag to the early70's "Rod & Reel" and "Fly Fisherman". If memory serves the followingwas true: looking just at the covers only, all but one of the modernissues showed an angler holding a large salmonoid, whereas most of theold mags showed the setting; a mountain stream, a fisherman walkingalong a barbed wire fence with no water in sight, John Voelker sittingin the rain smoking a cigar, etc. Doesn't this say something?Some of the old mags had do-it-yourself columns (How to build alunchbox fly tying kit), one had a regular Garrison column on caring forrods. I'm sure modern advertisers would never permit the mags toencourage such cost saving measures among their readership.But on the bright side, look at how much money we save onsubscriptions.Best regards,Reed Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 20 14:36:01 1998 0000 Subject: Dr. Reed Thank you for understanding the point I was trying to make. Due to theproblems with posting lately the 'production' note was supposed toprecede the 'FF' note. They are tied together. The reason that the bamboo has not taken off like the rest of theindustry is threefold I believe,a) no promotion in the flyfishing print world. The rags exist to promotenot the art and enjoyment of flyfishing, which as we know is really aconsuming lifestyle but to promote ever increasing consumerism.Consumerism without the balance of thought leads to burnout. This hasbeen acknowleged as starting to happen right now. The large glut ofanglers we saw since the 'movie' are starting to run its course, thosethat would have found FF anyway are staying with it and those that werechasing the latest fad are drifting away. I prefer Roderick Haig-Brownto Lefty Kreh if you know what I mean.b)lack of supply. Notably a lack of reasonably priced bamboo althoughthis is starting to change. You cannot realistically expect anuninformed angler(see 'a' above) to shell out $1500 for a bamboo rod ifhe has no knowlege base to start with. By providing $500-750 rods youwill end up promoting the art that a $1500 rod allows. You will have abuyer that can appreciate the 5% that the extra money will buy.c)lack of a cohesive way to sell bamboo. This is extremely difficult toset up unless you can provide 'b' above. If bamboo was available inevery fly shop across the US it would lead toi an ever increasingcrescendo of interest in cane. But only by those people who have reacheda certain phase in their FF career, Flyfishing is after all not a sportof how many or how big but of how. Many of us find thatwe prefer tolimit our fishing methods such as bamboo only, floating line only, nostrike indicators etc. A.J.Thramer from richjez@enteract.com Fri Mar 20 14:37:04 1998 0000 Lrichjez.enteract.com)(207.229.151.206) Subject: Re: mail Thanks for the info. I was wondering if it was my server.Rich Jezioro At 10:00 AM 3/20/98 -0600, you wrote:At 08:08 PM 3/19/98, john channer wrote:All;Please excuse this non-rodmaking questionbut, have there only been 4postings all day today, or am I not getting all of them?????????? As you all probably have noticed, the list has had it's "ups & downs" thepast few days. We had it back for a while there and then it was backdownagain. They are still trying to work out the problems. Let's hope it getsback on stable ground again soon... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy *_________________________________)// Rich Jezioro @ / /|| ________________________________________________|| /\/ \ > > > from royera@sprynet.com Fri Mar 20 14:41:18 1998 Subject: Re: new bamboo All, I am responding to Doug's question in this public arena for two reasons; itwas asked in the public arena and, some others may have a similarquestionsor concerns. I hope I am able to alleviate those. If any of you wish toaska question not in public airspace, please do so. My email is:royera@sprynet.com Thank you.---------------------- Doug, I guess I am now confused. What do you mean by "the same batch?" Thebamboo does come from the same shipment. I received a thousand+ poles,somewere moldy some were not. I do not see how the test procedures would beanything like testing lumber from the same tree. As I stated in myoriginalletter, "The twelve pieces were cut from a similar location from twelvedifferent poles." I attempted to ascertain whether or not the moldy pieces were any weakerthan the non-moldy pieces. I did this by two methods, one was to talkwithpeople who have been building rods for at least ten years and have seenmoldy cane before. Another was to provide material to a laboratory whowould test the strength of every piece of cane and tell me the results. Iam not attempting to qualify the bamboo according to any standard. WhatIhope to show was that cane with visible mold may not be inferior to canewithout visible mold. In terms of comparing bamboo from differentsources,there is no such thing as bamboo from different sources. There is morethanone supplier of this material but there is only one source in the entireworld. Again, I am confused as to what your issue is because I do not understandwhat you mean by the word, "batch." It seems to be an important factor inour mutual understanding/misunderstanding. I hope I have cleared up anyofyour concerns. Please let me know if I can further be of assistance. Thankyou for writing. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: new bamboo In a message dated 98-03-16 18:11:50 EST, you write: pieces of bamboo. They ran tests and concluded that the moldy pieceswereno weaker than the others. >> I was hoping that you could explain a bit further, were these culms fromthe same batch? I may be misunderstanding, but it seems that therewouldnot be much gained from testing bamboo that all came from the samebatch.After all, that would be like comparing lumber from the same tree inorderto qualify it to a larger standard. Given the previous concerns, how doesthis answer those concerns that regarded comparing bamboo fromdifferent sources?thanksdoug from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Mar 20 14:45:55 1998 Subject: Re: FF Magazine RO>But what I'mRO>really not sure about is whether I should get the High density, highspeed,RO>type IV, salt water taper, with extra long running line in green, blue orRO>the new Orvis stealth grey? --B. Depends upon the multicolor-colors of your Abel reel. If it's ared/blue/green mixture, then any of the 3 would be fine, IMHO. Don B.Flyfisher@cmix.com from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Mar 20 16:00:45 1998 1997)) id862565CD.00786A2A ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:55:14 -0600 Subject: Production Rods A.J. and Reed and to the List, I stand by my earlier post as to questions I think we should be answering whatyou are getting at. Certainly I am the last person in the world to say one can't or shouldn'tmake a living doing what (s)he loves to do! Much the opposite. I spend aninordinate amount of time telling people to follow their dreams andhelpingthem with ideas and resources that will enable them to do just that. With respect to producing a respectable, high quality production bamboorod, I absolutely believe it can be done. I've toyed with the idea myselfas I have several friends and former employees who have the knowledgeandability to design and produce the equipment, develop the processes, trainadditional workers, etc. I believe to make this business plan work,however, that there is a substantial initial investment needed. I alsobelieve that a group with enough guts and financial backing could createthe market which A.J. describes. That's what Marketing is. Shoot, I'd eventake a crack at writing the plan! (A quick calculation shows 5 peoplemaking $35,000 apiece need to make about 235 rods at $750 apiecewholesaleto pay salaries alone. Add benefits, overhead, etc. or reduce the wholesaleprice and the number goes up pretty quickly. I know you people can doarithmetic - I'm trying to bring this to where we all live.) My concern, which I may not have adequately expressed in my earlier post,is why are we proposing a heightened awareness of and desire for bamboorods? Is it honest pride in ourselves, our opinions, and our choice offishing tools? Or is it self serving? Is it an attempt to project ourvalues upon others, as I've seen evidence of in some discussion threads onthis list? These are ethical questions that need answers in my opinion.I've often touted fly fishing as a more ethically and environmentally soundmethod of fishing than bait and power boat methods. I believe that bamboorods are an extension and characterization of that philosophy. They arelargely made from a renewable resource (albeit subject to politicalwhims).Old world methods of production seem to me to be more in character withthat philosophy. Now if the idea is to do our best to create an ethical business and put ourbest rodmaking effort our there to a buying public we've identified,contacted, and educated, cool! As I said above, I'd never stand opposed tosomeone who was doing that. On the other hand, as I stated in my earlierpost, I like the idea of a cottage industry. I like the idea of being ableto make my own rod if I don't like what's available at the fly shop forWHATEVER reason. I sure wish I could have done that with a car instead ofthe one I just bought! Best regards,Ed Estlow from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Mar 20 16:09:19 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id QAA27685 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id QAA25324 for ; Fri, 20 Mar1998 Subject: Re: Planes Hi Mark, I planed my first 2 rods with the blades ground at 25 deg. I was skeptical of people who claimed they could plane 6 strips withoutresharpening. For my third I set the bevel at 30. Big Difference! The 6th strip planed almost as easily as the first. Maybe I'll try35 next.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 20 Mar 1998, MMills1189 wrote: Hello All, The name is Mark. I am new to the list and to this bamboo "sport". I amenjoying reading and learning from you all . A quick question, if someonewillbe kind enough to answer: What is the correct angle in which to sharpentheplane for bamboo processing, and what is the best (easiest) way toaquire thisangle. from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Mar 20 16:13:29 1998 Subject: A Sad Day In Grayrock Perhaps this my seem inappropiate to some, but it is a way of lettingseveral listmembers know of a lose in the Grayrock circle. Thursdaymorning,our good friend, J.J. (John Jackson) past away. Apparently JJ suffered abrainaneurysm during the night as he slept. He was 39 years old. The funeral ismonday in home town of Davidson.The news has come as quite a shock to the many that I've talked tolocally. His friend Gill especially so. For those that would like to send anote to her the address is:Gill Grudzien4125 PinecrestGrayling, MI 49738It's surprising the things you think about at times like this, I know JJwas a friend because we had hooked each other with a fly. For those thathavefloated the rivers here you will understand the meaning in that. We willmisshim Wayne from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Mar 20 16:31:31 1998 Subject: RE:A Sad Day In Grayrock Wayne, Sorry to hear about your fishing buddy. But all his streams now run clear and all his flies land like a wisp ofwind upon the still waters. Don Burns from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Mar 20 17:14:31 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA192085513; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 15:11:53 -0800 Subject: RE: Production Rods Ed, I suspect five people working full time in a production mode could quite easily surpass 235 rods in a year and without any sacrifice to quality. I would like to see more people fishing bamboo, and why not? I encourage all of my friends and family to use bamboo and give them rods and educate them in bamboo whenever I can. Nostalgia and heritage are important tome and I think bamboo best promotes that attitude in the same way longbows promote it in the arena of archery. It isn't right for a person to posture themselves as superior because they fish with bamboo, but as youindicated in your post, there is nothing wrong with honest pride. If bamboo rods were less expensive, then false posturing would diminish anyway, andwhat would remain would be those with honest pride in their chosen fishing implements. Opinions and preferences are all we really have. I've yet to meet anyone who is qualified to profess absolutes about anything. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from harry37@epix.net Fri Mar 20 17:50:43 1998 SAA26499 To the list-- What is anyone's preferred method for straightening an older tip section(or any other section, for that matter)that has developed either alateral "wiggle" or just a bit of a fishing cast? Are there advantagesto your preferred method? Disadvantages? Are there any specialprecautions? Any better equipment for heating methods? Thanks in advance--I'm looking forward to the education---- Greg Kuntz from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 20 18:12:48 1998 Subject: Re: RE:A Sad Day In Grayrock Wayne,We all are very sorry to hear of the loss of your friend. At times like thisit makes us all think a little more about our short time here on earth andonthe streams. I always thank God for every moment that I have out fishingevenwhen the fish aren't being very cooperative . It makes me happy just tobethere to cast and to listen to the gentle whoosh, whoosh of the cane. I amsure that the streams and forests of northern Michigan will be a lotemptierwithout him but just think of the great streams that must be in heaven. Oursympathies go out to the family.Bret from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 20 18:20:10 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Straightening methods Gregory J. Kuntz wrote: To the list-- What is anyone's preferred method for straightening an older tip section(or any other section, for that matter)that has developed either alateral "wiggle" or just a bit of a fishing cast? Are there advantagesto your preferred method? Disadvantages? Are there any specialprecautions? Any better equipment for heating methods? Thanks in advance--I'm looking forward to the education---- Greg KuntzHi Greg,I still use an alcohol lamp, fast and sure but it requires a delicatetouch as the temp spread between varnish damage and softening of thebamboo is pretty narrow. I have heard of some members who use steam,probably safer but an untried method for me.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from thramer@presys.com Fri Mar 20 18:24:19 1998 0000 Subject: plane angle The 35* angle on the plane iron is a rather recent improvement for me.Even the old guys can pick up useful bits of info from the group. Iconfess to still preferring english plane irons though!A.J.Thramer from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Mar 20 18:34:48 1998 Subject: Re: FF Magazine In a message dated 98-03-20 15:54:00 EST, you write: But what I'mRO>really not sure about is whether I should get the High density, highspeed,RO>type IV, salt water taper, with extra long running line in green, blueorRO>the new Orvis stealth grey? --B. Depends what brand of cigar you're smoking. Davy from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Mar 20 18:46:47 1998 (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA23853; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 19:46:37 -0500 Subject: Fwd: camp fishing To all. I am forwarding this email for anyone who may want to assist thiscause.I amnot associated with it. With the news about J.J. it stirred me to forwardthis. Chris ==================BEGIN FORWARDED MESSAGE================== head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA21988; Fri, 20 Mar199819:36:28 -0500Received: (qmail 14149 invoked by uid 0); 21 Mar 1998 00:35:51 -0000Message-ID: Received: from 141.161.119.193 by www.hotmail.com with HTTP;Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:35:50 PSTX-Originating-IP: [141.161.119.193]From: "Jonathan Russell" Subject: camp fishingContent-Type: text/plainDate: Fri, 20 Mar 1998 16:35:50 PSTX-UIDL: 651de4bfe7480ee2e0759b8553e03981 Dear Fellow Fisherman,I conduct fishing derbies and fly fishing classes for two camps,Camp Fantastic (a camp for kids with cancer) and Camp Funshine (a camp for kids with HIV). Special Love, Inc., the non-profit parent organization, sponsors several family weekend getaways for the families with kids that have cancer and/or HIV. At least two weekends a year and fathers day weekend in June we have fishing/classes for the kids. In the mornings I teach the kids the basics of fishing with bamboo poles. In the afternoons I teach, as best I can, the fundamentals of fly fishing for campers young and old. All of the fishing is taught at the 4-H Center in Front Royal, Virginia at the 1.5-2 acre pond. On June 20th we will have our seventh annual fishing derby.I am looking for donations for the derbies and classes. We need20-30, 2 or 3 piece bamboo poles (my 8-12 footers are not too portable), 6-8 fly rod combos (rod, reel and line)(new or used)(I don't have enough buddies with fly rods to borrow), hooks, bobbers, leaders, flies, etc. and items to be given away as prizes, for example: any tackle, tackle boxes, rods, reels, 2-4 hour fishing trips or lessons, gift certificates, etc. A letter will be sent to you or your business acknowledging your donation for tax purposes and any donation valued at $30 or more will be listed among the donors section of the year book. Please send donations to the address below. A tax exempt I.D. number will be given upon request and a copy of last years Year Book will be mailed upon request. Should you have questions or would like to volunteer your services to help these special kids, please call me at one of the numbers below.Happy FishingSincerely, Jonathan Russell18713 Hillside TerraceDerwood, MD 20855-1418Phone: (H) (301) 977-5205Phone: (W) (301) 670-0840E-Mail: russejo@hotmail.comTo checkout Special Love, Inc. go to their web site at HTTP://minuteman.com/specialove/ ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com ===================END FORWARDED MESSAGE=================== from channer@frontier.net Fri Mar 20 19:16:37 1998 Subject: re: Dr. Reed A.J.Another nail hit right on the head.John Channer from anglport@con2.com Fri Mar 20 19:25:56 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16110 for Subject: Re: Straightening methods At 06:49 PM 3/20/98 -0500, you wrote:To the list-- What is anyone's preferred method for straightening an older tip section(or any other section, for that matter)that has developed either alateral "wiggle" or just a bit of a fishing cast? Are there advantagesto your preferred method? Disadvantages? Are there any specialprecautions? Any better equipment for heating methods? Thanks in advance--I'm looking forward to the education---- Greg Kuntz Greg,I've used a Farberware electric broiler for years and never scorched a rod.It is hot enough to do the job and wide enough that you can hold as much ofthe rod as you wish over it. In the NY area the broilers are available atgarage sales for about 5 to 10 bucks apiece (they were 45 to 60 bucksnew--maybe more now!) and I've seen one about every 2 to 3 weeks. Peoplebought them when they were the bees' knees and then decided they were apainto clean. They do a damn good job of cooking too. You can actually cook achicken on the rotisserie (if you get one with one) on your buffet and notdamage the buffet with splatters! The rotisserie is a great rod wrap curer I merely hold the rod over as much of a corner as I wish (to heat as muchofit as I wish) and work the set from the middle to the ends. A few timestheset returned after fishing but I then "over"straightened ( put a reverse setin ) the rod the second time through and that did the job. I guess anelectric stove would work too but it's not as large a heating area.Good luck,Art from CampblRods@aol.com Fri Mar 20 19:33:18 1998 Subject: Bevelers Hello everyone. I'm a rodmaker from Bangor,Maine and interested in theavailability of someone selling or making a quality rod beveler. I'dappreciate any help at all with my search. Also, just wanted to say thatthisis a great way for all of us to exchange ideas!Thanks, Steve Campbell from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Mar 20 20:05:15 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers Steve,Contact Barry Grantham at: Profile Grinding ( attention BarryGrantham)7 Brant RoadLincoln, LN5 8RLEnglandPhone 44 01522 535500 You could try calling him,though I hear he is very hard tounderstandbecause of his accent. I understand he makes one heck of a beveler. Dave LeClairThe Fly and Rod Room from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Mar 20 20:13:48 1998 Subject: Re: Straightening methods In a message dated 98-03-20 20:32:56 EST, you write: Art - A trick a friend taught me is to over straighten, as you mentionabove,then after the area cools thoroughly, waggle the rod vigerously. The bendoften then shows if it is to return. Has worked for me. Regards,Richard from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Mar 20 20:21:09 1998 1997)) id862565CE.000C6A3D ; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 20:15:36 -0600 Subject: RE: Production Rods Well, well said Chris. Nostalgia, heritage, history, all are worthy reasonsto pursue an endeavor. Regards,Ed Estlow Ed,I suspect five people working full time in a production mode could quiteeasily surpass 235 rods in a year and without any sacrifice to quality.I would like to see more people fishing bamboo, and why not? I encourageall of my friends and family to use bamboo and give them rods and educatethem in bamboo whenever I can. Nostalgia and heritage are important tomeand I think bamboo best promotes that attitude in the same way longbowspromote it in the arena of archery. It isn't right for a person to posturethemselves as superior because they fish with bamboo, but as youindicatedin your post, there is nothing wrong with honest pride. If bamboo rodswere less expensive, then false posturing would diminish anyway, andwhatwould remain would be those with honest pride in their chosen fishingimplements. Opinions and preferences are all we really have. I've yet tomeet anyone who is qualified to profess absolutes about anything.Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from CampblRods@aol.com Fri Mar 20 20:21:18 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers Any idea of the rough cost of one of Mr.Grantham's bevelers, or of itsdesign? from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Mar 20 20:54:03 1998 Subject: Magazine Invoice Anybody - I subscribed to and received 1st cy of The Bamboo Fly Rodmagazine,but have not yet received an invoice. Has anyone?Regards,Richard from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Mar 20 21:05:35 1998 8.7/8.7) idWAA20376 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Fri, 20 Mar 1998 22:02:46 - Subject: Re: Magazine Invoice First issue arrived here a few weeks ago, still no invoice eitherLen Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htm"You never step in the same stream twice." H.B.N. Hynes from EMiller257@aol.com Fri Mar 20 21:23:16 1998 Subject: Re: Planes Could you tell us what issue of TPF the article was in please? Sharpeningisso critical , any advancement is welcome. Ed M from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Mar 20 21:43:17 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Straightening methods A.J., Art, Richard,I've used both an alcohol lamp and a paint remover gun and much preferthegun as I don't scorch the cane as readily. I count the seconds as I twirl thecane over the gun.Regards,Hank. from ghinde@inconnect.com Fri Mar 20 22:57:38 1998 (may beforged)) 0000 Subject: Re: Production Rods Chris;Not to dampen your enthusiasm but , who is your competition? If you wantto go into production you need to pull people away from graphite. Thismeans 1, you have to out advertize them which takes big bucks, and 2, youmust be competitive in price which we can not begin to approach. Keep inmind that the $550 graphite rod you see in the flyshop only cost theretailer $350, and the manufacturer $125. Also at $550 the market isalready getting quite small which means that a retail price of around $450is needed to get a reasonable piece of the pie. Also, 235 rods per year is still just a cottage industry. Thecompetition does that many in a week. ----------From: eestlow@srminc.com Subject: RE: Production RodsDate: Friday, March 20, 1998 7:23 PM Well, well said Chris. Nostalgia, heritage, history, all are worthyreasonsto pursue an endeavor. Regards,Ed Estlow Ed,I suspect five people working full time in a production mode could quiteeasily surpass 235 rods in a year and without any sacrifice to quality.I would like to see more people fishing bamboo, and why not? Iencourageall of my friends and family to use bamboo and give them rods andeducatethem in bamboo whenever I can. Nostalgia and heritage are important tomeand I think bamboo best promotes that attitude in the same waylongbowspromote it in the arena of archery. It isn't right for a person toposturethemselves as superior because they fish with bamboo, but as youindicatedin your post, there is nothing wrong with honest pride. If bamboo rodswere less expensive, then false posturing would diminish anyway, andwhatwould remain would be those with honest pride in their chosen fishingimplements. Opinions and preferences are all we really have. I've yettomeet anyone who is qualified to profess absolutes about anything.Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from ghinde@inconnect.com Fri Mar 20 23:06:23 1998 (may beforged)) 0000 Subject: Re: Production Rods Sorry I forgot sign my replyGeorge Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: G. Hinde Subject: Re: Production RodsDate: Friday, March 20, 1998 9:50 PM Chris;Not to dampen your enthusiasm but , who is your competition? If youwantto go into production you need to pull people away from graphite. Thismeans 1, you have to out advertize them which takes big bucks, and 2,youmust be competitive in price which we can not begin to approach. Keepinmind that the $550 graphite rod you see in the flyshop only cost theretailer $350, and the manufacturer $125. Also at $550 the market isalready getting quite small which means that a retail price of around$450is needed to get a reasonable piece of the pie. Also, 235 rods per year is still just a cottage industry. Thecompetition does that many in a week. ----------From: eestlow@srminc.com Subject: RE: Production RodsDate: Friday, March 20, 1998 7:23 PM Well, well said Chris. Nostalgia, heritage, history, all are worthyreasonsto pursue an endeavor. Regards,Ed Estlow Ed,I suspect five people working full time in a production mode couldquiteeasily surpass 235 rods in a year and without any sacrifice to quality.I would like to see more people fishing bamboo, and why not? Iencourageall of my friends and family to use bamboo and give them rods andeducatethem in bamboo whenever I can. Nostalgia and heritage are importanttomeand I think bamboo best promotes that attitude in the same waylongbowspromote it in the arena of archery. It isn't right for a person toposturethemselves as superior because they fish with bamboo, but as youindicatedin your post, there is nothing wrong with honest pride. If bamboo rodswere less expensive, then false posturing would diminish anyway, andwhatwould remain would be those with honest pride in their chosen fishingimplements. Opinions and preferences are all we really have. I'veyettomeet anyone who is qualified to profess absolutes about anything.Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 20 23:09:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re: FF Magazine Davy,Flyfishing and Flytying, Aberfeldy Road,Kenmore, Perthshire,PH15 2HF.Tel/Fax01887 830526. 3 Pounds U.K. price. A great magazine from England.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 20 23:18:57 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Invoice Richard,I talked to Mark Metcalf last weekend in Detroit and asked about invoices. Hesaid they were having trouble with their accounting package in theircomputerand hoped to have it straightened out this week or next. I paid for mine atthis time at the show.Bret from jstickle@erols.com Fri Mar 20 23:24:31 1998 Subject: London Fishing Shops?? I'll be heading out to merry olde England in a few weeks and wonder ifany of you folks can suggest some fly and/or fishing shops in London? Jeff Stickle from jstickle@erols.com Fri Mar 20 23:38:27 1998 Subject: Production Rods I currently build plastic rods and have been looking into building inbamboo and judging from what I have seen it is pretty time consuming andfrought with problems. If one can overcome the problems, the resultdoes appear to be an art form. As to production. Assuming a shop of 5 people you will get about 1,800hours work out of each for a yearly total of 9,000 hours. How long doesit take you to build a rod? I have seen estimates of 60 hours. Thatwould make 150 rods per year. Could good production methods cut buildtime down to 40 hours? At that time you could make 225 rods. At $500each wholesale that is $112,500.00. Assuming 25% for materials ($28,125) that leaves $84,375 for salaries. Assume that taxes and benefits are 30% of that ($25,315) you are leftwith take home pay of $59,060 or $11,812 per worker. Not a big pay daybut who said you could get rich doing this? How long does it take you to make a rod? If you organized yourproduction what do you think you could get it down to? Anybody want totake a stab at it? Jeff Stickle from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 21 02:36:16 1998 Subject: re: production rods I think that those of us that hand plane on a small scale and try to sell afew rods from time to time had better hope that no one starts up aproduction company ala Heddon, Phillipson, Granger. A great part of thereason that we can sell a rod at all is the fact that the current big threedemand such a high price that everyone else is reasonable bycomparison.Granted, I haven't been doing this for very long, but when I seethe prices asked by long time builders such as A. J. Thramer and GeorgeMaurer I wonder what they do for their day job.Buying parts retail, Ifigure I have about $200+ in material per rod and I only reject slashmarked and weak cane, this leaves me currently making less thanminimumwage per rod. I don't mind because I only sell rods so I can continue tomake them at all, but I'm sure glad my next meal doesn't depend on theprofit.The situation reminds me a great deal of the building industry. I ama non-union carpenter,and I make about $4-$6 an hour under scale, whichisstill a pretty good living. I have a good job and most of the guys I knowin the same position do ,too.BUT!, if it weren't for the union pay scale,we would probably be getting 1/2 of what we make now.I have neverworked aunion job, but I have known plenty of guys that do and I wouldn't tradeplaces with any of them, I would much rather do quality work at areasonable pace and work year around for someone that gives a damnwhetherI starve or not.Still and all, their job is what makes mine posible and Iam glad the high pay sweat shops are out there.Another .02's worth from John Channer from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Mar 21 05:15:11 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id LAA32192 for; Sat, 21 Mar 1998 11:22:34 GMT Subject: Re: Ed Estlow's ethos Big clip............... In the end it comes down to what someone on the list said or quoted inearly December: It isn't about what the toys are made of, it's aboutwearing them out with friends you love. Perhaps that's where we shouldconcentrate our energy. Thanks for the forum. Regards,Ed Estlow Ed and all, That's a lovely mail from a man who clearly understands what this is allabout - at least for some. The problem is that so many good folks regardcane, or whatever else they're into, as an end in itself. OK, that's valid,but for some of us, maybe the very fortunate few, the cane is more thanjusta fishing tool, it's a magic wand to transport us back to another time. Thattime may, or may not, have been better, but it's certainly what I want. Here in England, we have a small club of (let's call it) traditionalistanglers. We call ourselves The Sheringham Society (after the wonderfulangling writer H.T.Sheringham 1870-1931). To add an echo to Ed's words,youmay like to read the words that encapsulate the feelings and attitudeswithwhich the Sheringham Society members like to associate themselves. Irealiseit may be a bit moon and June romantic for some. For a few though, it mayjust distil a thought or two. How blessed are those who seek and see Through roseate vistas there and there Through friends and loves Through moments shared The scented road to Arcady. John Cooper (England) from TSmithwick@aol.com Sat Mar 21 07:24:52 1998 Subject: Re: Planes Ed-- The leather wheel article is in Issue #41 Sept/Oct 1996 from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Mar 21 09:31:26 1998 0700 Subject: Re: [1] plane angle At 16:28 20/03/98 -0800, you wrote:The 35* angle on the plane iron is a rather recent improvement for me.Even the old guys can pick up useful bits of info from the group. Iconfess to still preferring English plane irons though!A.J.Thramer AJ/Robert et al, Started with a lessor angle about 15 years and 60 rods ago of about 25degrees and slowly increased it to 40 degrees - the sharper the angle, theless the node chipping. Use about 37 degrees now.Contacted Veritas to see if they would revise the angle setting devicetheysell for a steeper angle - Leonard figured that the market was too smalltodo it. Machined the angle myself. it. Don from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Mar 21 09:53:30 1998 Subject: Re: Ed Estlow's ethos John,See below: J.Cooper wrote: OK, that's valid,but for some of us, maybe the very fortunate few, the cane is more thanjusta fishing tool, it's a magic wand to transport us back to another time. John, we have such groups over here. Sometimes they aremedeivalists,or civil war buffs, a few are anglers. Wouldn't wooden rods, e.g.,greenheart, be more accurate for your setting and chosen time period.There is certainly nothing wrong with romanticising the past,unfortunately in the U.S. this would quickly be commercialized. AnAntique Fly Fisherperson magazine would be started, next would be anendless range of products for mood setting; real smoked glass lensesmade of poorly ground glass to replace anachronistic RayBans, waterproofcopies of Wordsworth, and for the Western fisherman, authentic portablebushes to use for drying fly line while eating a liesurely lunch (thispart I enjoy). And of course, real patent medicines for curing the coldsone contracts from wading wet in 40 degree water, or the gout fromendless bottles of Sandemanns.I understand you, but I am happily, Not one of the Fortunate Few,Reed from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 21 10:13:57 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: London Fishing Shops?? Jeffrey R. Stickle wrote: I'll be heading out to merry olde England in a few weeks and wonder ifany of you folks can suggest some fly and/or fishing shops in London? Jeff Stickle Hi Jeff! My last visit in London was two years ago and i had not a lot of time.I know only two stores for flyfisheres there - Orvis and Hardy.Shure, the had "Plastic" rods, except Hardy had a Plakona Split cane orso, but Orvis has a lot of good fly patterns( also classic english ones)and good classic english clothing for fishing ( uuh, also for womans,better go alone!).Hardy is situated at: 61, Pall Mall Street, Orvis at (I`m not shure) atStockbridge road - (adress must find on the last site of her cataloque).Anyway - both are situated near "Picadilly", a "Must" to see fortourists. Regards Stefan/Switzerland from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 21 10:14:30 1998 (MET) Subject: Adress from Al Medved Hi, heres Switzerland In the archives i read about Al Medved and his beveler. Anyone knowshis adress/e-mail?Someones know this beveler? from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 21 10:15:05 1998 (MET) Subject: Good News Good News! I heard about a german guy - writes a book about european bamboorodmakers (~40 Persons!). He will write in english.Don`t know when it`s available, but mabye also interesting for US-rodbuilders?! Regards Stefan/Switzerland from destinycon@mindspring.com Sat Mar 21 10:27:49 1998 Subject: Re: Adress from Al Medved All I know about this place is there ad in The PFCane Beveler by Bellinger2017 25th SE Salem, OR 97302505-371-6151 At 05:03 PM 3/21/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi, heres Switzerland In the archives i read about Al Medved and his beveler. Anyone knowshis adress/e-mail?Someones know this beveler? from CALucker@aol.com Sat Mar 21 11:46:33 1998 Subject: Re: London Fishing Shops?? Of course there is Hardy's on Pall Mall. But my favorite is Farlow & Co.,which has two stores in Burlington Arcade. Both or in the West End. The Best place to see is the Fly Fishers Club of London. It's been aroundfor115 years. You know the club. It's the one that Halford and Skues and Halland so many belonged to. Halford and Skues debated the ethics of nymphfishing in the FFC magazine/newsletter. The FFC occupies the three floorsabove the Buck's Club just off Old Bond Street just north of BurlingtonArcade. The FFC has an amazing collection of flyplates and originalmanuscripts, including the fly plates that appear in Halford books and thefirst fly tied on an eyed hook (Hall's). Shues' Leonard is there. So is acreel that reportably belonged to Walton. It is sitting in the cocktail areaof the Library. I remember tying a fly at the tying table back in the early 80's when myresident nominating sponsor told me I was using Halford's vice (as theyspellit). Another member came in and declared "That's not Halford's vice. It'sSkues' vice. Halford's vice is right here!" What an opportunity to havesucha choice in tying tools.Subscribe the the FFC quarterly. You can probably get it without withoutbeing an overseas member. Chris Lucker from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 21 11:50:05 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: Adress from Al Medved Thanks Heidt, but what you mean with "PF"? from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 21 12:16:55 1998 (MET) Subject: straightening Hi, here`s Swiss Cane again! Tip - since a longer time i use for heat-straightening a heat gun from an optician. They use a heat gun that no blows the hot air, theyuse it for straightening the ear pieces on glasses.Works fine for bamboo straightening, most guns has a fine adjustableheater. Since i use this no problems, works fine. Stefan/Switzerlandhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 21 12:32:29 1998 (MET) Subject: Tung oil Swiss Cane again! Sorry - tody i`m mabye sick - calls "mailomanie" - Okay - here in Europe ( better say Switzerland) can`t find Tung Oil -nobody knows waht i mean with this name. In Paint stores they sellTeak-/Lin-/and a lot other oils, but nothing with this name.Everybody knows another name, better the german name?Mabye a european producer ? Thanks for patience Stefanhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat Mar 21 12:37:43 1998 Subject: Re: Magazine Invoice Len, Bret - thanks for the invoice info. Will just be patient - simply didnot want to stiff them if an error had been made.Cheers, RTyree from MMills1189@aol.com Sat Mar 21 12:51:16 1998 Subject: Sharpening Hi All,Can anyone please tell me where I can purchase a Veritas Plane Ironsharpening jig on the web. (the hand type, not the grinder attachment). Thanks kindly Mark from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Mar 21 13:14:41 1998 Subject: Re: Tung oil and Veritas Sharpening Check out: http://www.woodcraft.com you can order 100% Tung oil and the Veritas sharpeningjig right online if you want. Or you can get a catalog sentto you from this site. Darryl Hayashida from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Mar 21 14:09:10 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA37326 +0100 Subject: Sv: Ed Estlow's ethos OAA09646 -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----Fra: Reed F. Curry Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Emne: Re: Ed Estlow's ethos John,See below: J.Cooper wrote: OK, that's valid,but for some of us, maybe the very fortunate few, the cane is more thanjusta fishing tool, it's a magic wand to transport us back to another time. John, we have such groups over here. Sometimes they are medeivalists,or civil war buffs, a few are anglers. Wouldn't wooden rods, e.g.,greenheart, be more accurate for your setting and chosen time period.There is certainly nothing wrong with romanticising the past,unfortunately in the U.S. this would quickly be commercialized. AnAntique Fly Fisherperson magazine would be started, next would be anendless range of products for mood setting; real smoked glass lensesmade of poorly ground glass to replace anachronistic RayBans,waterproofcopies of Wordsworth, and for the Western fisherman, authentic portablebushes to use for drying fly line while eating a liesurely lunch (thispart I enjoy). And of course, real patent medicines for curing the coldsone contracts from wading wet in 40 degree water, or the gout fromendless bottles of Sandemanns.I understand you, but I am happily, Not one of the Fortunate Few,Reed Reed Perhaps the difference between the british and the american approach is,thatthe Britsh commercialize the past in another way than americans might betemptedto. Being of neither of the two countries, but admireing both, allow to me tostatethe fact that history, going back to medieval times, are more present inEnglandthan in US, for obvious reasons. This might be the reason that britons, as awhole, have a more relaxed attitude towards these things. History IS apart ofeveryday living in a more visible way in England. (Castles and humblecottages,roman roads and all the tourist stuff is definately the real thing,everywhere.) Being a citizen in a country, a kingdom for a thousand years (Denmark, notEngland) history is very much present. Our flag is some 700 hundred yearsold,churches the same age. Hell, we even ruled England once. Does waving the flag and going to church (or fishing a cane rod) makes meahistory buff? Certainly not. I, like the rest of my countrymen, expiriencehistory every day. Can,t avoid it, its all over the place. Does appriciatingSaxo (an eleventh century historican) makes me outdated? I certainly hopenot. How do I know? Well, this letter is sent by Internet, an americaninvention, bythe help of "Intel Inside". Two of my favourite drinks are Coke and Port,NOTmixed, but enjoyed at different times. I like to choose from whats available, be it Coke or Shakespeare, Cane orIntel.I think You do the same. best regards Carsten from jczimny@dol.net Sat Mar 21 14:39:17 1998 Subject: ammonium chloride 06959BE8C9448669BB45EB38" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 06959BE8C9448669BB45EB38 To the List:I've had several off-list inquiries regarding the use of ammoniumchloride and where it might be obtained. I've been able to obtainreagent grade at the following: The Science Fair140 College SquareNewark DE 19711www.thesciencefair.comS-Fair@thesciencefair.com(302) 453-1817 fax (302) 453-0845 They will ship 100 gms for $15.00 postpaid. Or, they will ship in 500 gmcontainers.100 grams will "kick" 10 gallons of resin. John Zimny --------------06959BE8C9448669BB45EB38 name="www.thesciencefair.com" Content-Base: "http://www.thesciencefair.com" Welcome to the Science Fair - Telescopes, Microscopes, Education,ScienceSupplies, Lab supplies, Lab Glassware, entemology --------------06959BE8C9448669BB45EB38-- from thramer@presys.com Sat Mar 21 16:19:52 1998 0000 Subject: Re: production rods john channer wrote: I think that those of us that hand plane on a small scale and try to sell afew rods from time to time had better hope that no one starts up aproduction company ala Heddon, Phillipson, Granger. A great part of thereason that we can sell a rod at all is the fact that the current big threedemand such a high price that everyone else is reasonable bycomparison.Granted, I haven't been doing this for very long, but when Iseethe prices asked by long time builders such as A. J. Thramer and GeorgeMaurer I wonder what they do for their day job.Buying parts retail, Ifigure I have about $200+ in material per rod and I only reject slashmarked and weak cane, this leaves me currently making less thanminimumwage per rod. I don't mind because I only sell rods so I can continue tomake them at all, but I'm sure glad my next meal doesn't depend on theprofit.The situation reminds me a great deal of the building industry. Iama non-union carpenter,and I make about $4-$6 an hour under scale, whichisstill a pretty good living. I have a good job and most of the guys I knowin the same position do ,too.BUT!, if it weren't for the union pay scale,we would probably be getting 1/2 of what we make now.I have neverworked aunion job, but I have known plenty of guys that do and I wouldn't tradeplaces with any of them, I would much rather do quality work at areasonable pace and work year around for someone that gives a damnwhetherI starve or not.Still and all, their job is what makes mine posible and Iam glad the high pay sweat shops are out there.Another .02's worth fromJohn ChannerI buy larger quantities of supplies than would be needed by a hobbiestand sell a standardized rod that does not take 60hrs to buildA.J.Thramer from saweiss@flash.net Sat Mar 21 17:10:41 1998 Subject: Re: ammonium chloride boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0084_01BD54E4.9BBA5AC0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BD54E4.9BBA5AC0 Hello, My name is Steve WeissJust beginning to tool up to make rods and Ineed all the info I can =get.I've read about coloring cane with ammonium chloride during the heat =treating. How else can it be applied?-----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Saturday, March 21, 1998 1:42 PMSubject: ammonium chloride To the List:I've had several off-list inquiries regarding the use of ammoniumchloride and where it might be obtained. I've been able to obtainreagent grade at the following: The Science Fair140 College SquareNewark DE 19711www.thesciencefair.comS-Fair@thesciencefair.com(302) 453-1817 fax (302) 453-0845 They will ship 100 gms for $15.00 postpaid. Or, they will ship in =500 gmcontainers.100 grams will "kick" 10 gallons of resin. John Zimny ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BD54E4.9BBA5AC0 Hello, My name is Steve =Weiss Just beginning to tool up to make rods and I need = I can get.I've read about coloring cane with ammoniumchloride = -----Original = Rodmakers <RODMAKERS@wugate.wustl.edu= Saturday, March 21, 1998 1:42 PMSubject: chlorideTo the List:I've had several = inquiries regarding the use of ammoniumchloride and where it = S- = $15.00 postpaid. Or, they will ship in 500 gmcontainers.100 = Zimny ------=_NextPart_000_0084_01BD54E4.9BBA5AC0-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Mar 21 18:11:44 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Tung oil At 19:27 21/03/98 -0800, you wrote:Swiss Cane again! Sorry - tody i`m mabye sick - calls "mailomanie" - Okay - here in Europe ( better say Switzerland) can`t find Tung Oil -nobody knows waht i mean with this name. In Paint stores they sellTeak-/Lin-/and a lot other oils, but nothing with this name.Everybody knows another name, better the german name?Mabye a european producer ? Thanks for patience Stefanhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau Stefan, Send Frank Neunemann a note - he's German and very knowlegeable aboutyourtung oil trouble - Frank's address is Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sat Mar 21 18:11:53 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Sharpening At 13:50 21/03/98 EST, you wrote:Hi All,Can anyone please tell me where I can purchase a Veritas Plane Ironsharpening jig on the web. (the hand type, not the grinder attachment). Thanks kindly Mark \Mark, They have a home page - Lee Valley Tools builds Vertias - see RodmakersHome page. Don from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Mar 21 18:37:45 1998 Subject: Re: Good News gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: Good News! I heard about a german guy - writes a book about european bamboorodmakers (~40 Persons!). He will write in english.Don`t know when it`s available, but mabye also interesting for US-rodbuilders?! Regards Stefan/Switzerland I've had some correspondence with the gentleman you refer to and canprobably look his address up if anyone needs it. Think it was alsomentioned in the new magazine. from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Sat Mar 21 19:16:03 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Sat, 21 Mar 1998 20:15:30 -0500 Subject: Wooden Forms Does anybody out there continue to use wooden forms after a few rods. I'm getting cold feet on making steel forms and am thinking about newand improved wooden ones. Any input? from jczimny@dol.net Sat Mar 21 19:24:28 1998 Subject: Re: ammonium chloride boundary="------------F5A983B4D12703AB59C10A8F" --------------F5A983B4D12703AB59C10A8F No Steve. One uses ammonium chloride as a hardener in urea formaldehydeglue formulations. You are referring to a darkening process calledammonia steaming. Talk to George Maurer about this. He is and expert onthe process.John Zimny Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: Hello, My name is Steve Weiss Just beginning to tool up to make rodsand I need all the info I can get.I've read about coloring cane withammonium chloride during the heat treating. How else can it beapplied? -----Original Message-----From: J. C. Zimny Date: Saturday, March 21, 1998 1:42 PMSubject: ammonium chlorideTo the List:I've had several off-list inquiries regarding the use ofammoniumchloride and where it might be obtained. I've been able toobtainreagent grade at the following: The Science Fair140 College SquareNewark DE 19711www.thesciencefair.comS-Fair@thesciencefair.com(302) 453-1817 fax (302) 453-0845 They will ship 100 gms for $15.00 postpaid. Or, they willship in 500 gmcontainers.100 grams will "kick" 10 gallons of resin. John Zimny --------------F5A983B4D12703AB59C10A8F No Steve. One uses ammonium chloride as a hardener in urea formaldehydeglue formulations. You are referring to a darkening process calledammoniasteaming. Talk to George Maurer about this. He is and expert on theprocess.John Zimny Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: beginningto tool up to make rods and I need all the info I can get.I'veread about coloring cane with ammonium chloride during the heat treating.How else can it be applied?-----OriginalMessage-----From: J. C. Zimny <jczimny@dol.net> Date: Saturday, March 21,19981:42 PMSubject: ammoniumchlorideTothe List:I've had several off-list inquiries regarding the use of ammoniumchloride and where it might be obtained. I've been able to obtainreagent grade at the following: They will ship 100 gms for $15.00 postpaid. Or, they will ship in 500gmcontainers.100 grams will "kick" 10 gallons of resin. John Zimny --------------F5A983B4D12703AB59C10A8F-- from destinycon@mindspring.com Sat Mar 21 20:35:14 1998 Subject: Re: Adress from Al Medved The Plaining FormGary At 06:45 PM 3/21/98 -0800, you wrote:Thanks Heidt, but what you mean with "PF"? from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat Mar 21 20:42:20 1998 Sun, 22 Mar 1998 10:41:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Wooden Forms On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, John Whitaker wrote: Does anybody out there continue to use wooden forms after a few rods. I'm getting cold feet on making steel forms and am thinking about newand improved wooden ones. Any input? Yes. Because you're not planing the forms they last a lot longer than you may at first think. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Mar 21 21:13:23 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sat, 21Mar 1998 23:14:32 -0400 Subject: Poly Varnish.... Just curious how long it takes to cure? I am using the PPP 77-5 Poly. Varnish and after a couple days I can still leave a thumb print or nail mark? I assume the thicker you put it on the longer cure time, but as a rule? Thanks again for all your help guys... Oh by the way...I learned a little something today....if you drag your plane back over the strip...the blade dulls a lot faster than if you lift. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Mar 21 21:43:01 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Ed Estlow's ethos Reed,Do you use authentic bushes to dry your silk lines? :-)Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Mar 21 21:43:09 1998 Subject: Re: Re: [1] plane angle Don,I figure the 25 deg. angle is "sharper " than the 37 deg. Is that what youmeant? I know that Tony likes the 60 1/2 plane with what I call the sharper angle.This is not meant to be a flame-I'm truly asking for info.Regards,Hank. from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 21 22:16:40 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: Good News George W. Barnes wrote: gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: Good News! I heard about a german guy - writes a book about european bamboorodmakers (~40 Persons!). He will write in english.Don`t know when it`s available, but mabye also interesting for US-rodbuilders?! Regards Stefan/Switzerland I've had some correspondence with the gentleman you refer to and canprobably look his address up if anyone needs it. Think it was alsomentioned in the new magazine. The german Bookwriter`s adress: Dr. David PoppValentin-Bauerstrasse 1667059 Ludwigshafen/Germany Regards, Stefan from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 21 22:59:02 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: Tung oil Thanks Don!Here`s the new mailadress from Frank Neunemann: FNeunemann@compuserve.com regardsStefan Stefan, Send Frank Neunemann a note - he's German and very knowlegeable aboutyourtung oil trouble - Frank's address is Don from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Mar 22 01:24:33 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA35142 +0100 Subject: Sv: Good News BAA10397 -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----Fra: gespliesst@bluewin.ch Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Emne: Good News Good News! I heard about a german guy - writes a book about european bamboorodmakers (~40 Persons!). He will write in english.Don`t know when it`s available, but mabye also interesting for US-rodbuilders?! Regards Stefan/Switzerland How about us Scandinavians? We'd like to know, too. Stefan, pleaseinform,if/when You have further news. Regards Carsten from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Mar 22 01:51:40 1998 Subject: Bevel Angle Just spent most of the day sharpening myplane blade at different angles. These aremy impressions. The steeper angles (40 degrees is steeperor larger than 35 degrees in my nomencalture,just so that there is no confusion), increasethe effort it takes to cut a shaving from a strip.It also makes the shaving curl up a lot tighter.It does seem to produce less lifts or chips. My blades were already at 30 deg. when I started, so I resharpened to 25 deg. 25 deg. produces a buttery soft cut thatseems to take very little effort, but doesseem to produce a few more lifts. I resharpened at 2 deg. increments, andeach 2 deg. does make a difference in theeffort it takes to produce a shaving. When I reached 35 deg. it seemed to methat the effort it took produced a lot morestrip slippage and the control of the planewas compromised. 40 degrees took toomuch effort for planing to be anything but a chore. So I settled on 32 degrees for my roughingplane, and 28 dgrees for my final plane. Darryl Hayashida from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sun Mar 22 02:14:26 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: Sv: Good News CAA11843 Carsten Jorgensen wrote: -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----Fra: gespliesst@bluewin.ch Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Emne: Good News Good News! I heard about a german guy - writes a book about european bamboorodmakers (~40 Persons!). He will write in english.Don`t know when it`s available, but mabye also interesting for US-rodbuilders?! Regards Stefan/Switzerland How about us Scandinavians? We'd like to know, too. Stefan, pleaseinform,if/when You have further news. Regards Carsten Shure, hope he don`t wants forget the cold part of europe - all i know He wants also tell the story from Pezon&Michel, Gebethsroiter usw. I give message, when the book will be available RegardsStefan from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Mar 22 05:09:08 1998 Sun, 22 Mar 1998 19:09:00 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: [1] plane angle On Sat, 21 Mar 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Don,I figure the 25 deg. angle is "sharper " than the 37 deg. Is that what youmeant? I know that Tony likes the 60 1/2 plane with what I call the sharperangle.This is not meant to be a flame-I'm truly asking for info.Regards,Hank. I bought a 9-1/2 recently as I wanted to have a few planes handy to save stopping and sharpening too often and thought I'd try this rather than get another 60-1/2.What I found is what you'd expect. The 9-1/2 takes a little more effort to plane than the 60-1/2 but you can make deeper cuts with less likelyhood of lifting the cane. The extra effort required does create some problems with scarfs but all in all it's 6 of one and half dozen of the other. If I was to buy one plane or the other to do the job I guess I'd lean toward the 9-1/2 and a Record at that. The Record Irons are better than Stanley from what I can see. At the risk of starting the "Plane Iron Wars" again, a Hock iron is better than both (Stanley/Record) IMHO. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from saweiss@flash.net Sun Mar 22 06:39:01 1998 Subject: Re: Tung oil Stefan,The Garrett-Wade Catalog refers to Tung oil as also being called ChinaWoodOil or Nut Oil. (www.garrettwade.com)Steve-----Original Message--- -- Subject: Re: Tung oil At 19:27 21/03/98 -0800, you wrote:Swiss Cane again! Sorry - tody i`m mabye sick - calls "mailomanie" - Okay - here in Europe ( better say Switzerland) can`t find Tung Oil -nobody knows waht i mean with this name. In Paint stores they sellTeak-/Lin-/and a lot other oils, but nothing with this name.Everybody knows another name, better the german name?Mabye a european producer ? Thanks for patience Stefanhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau Stefan, Send Frank Neunemann a note - he's German and very knowlegeable aboutyourtung oil trouble - Frank's address is Don from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sun Mar 22 09:16:59 1998 Subject: Re: Wooden Forms John Whitaker wrote: Does anybody out there continue to use wooden forms after a few rods.I'm getting cold feet on making steel forms and am thinking about newand improved wooden ones. Any input? I use them exclusively. Have developed a habit of retaining a set form ifI like the rod produced. Only problem is a shop full of planingforms.George from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Mar 22 09:37:53 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA14025 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id JAA09160 for ; Sun, 22 Mar1998 Subject: Re: production rods Gentlemen, I have no intention of ever producing rods for sale, so this is none of my business, but it seems to me that the independent rodbuilders could benefit from a rodmakers guild to collectively advertise the concept of cane rods. Funded with a contribution of 1/2 % or 1 % of the maker's sales. There are lots of examples of these marketing guilds; here in Wisconsin we have the milk producers association. I'm sure there are a hundred reasons why it wouldn't work. Probablywould be like herding cats anyway.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot- warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Mar 22 10:10:39 1998 Subject: Re: Ed Estlow's ethos FISHWOOL wrote: Reed,Do you use authentic bushes to dry your silk lines? :-)Hank.Hank,Sure do, but the dang things ain't portable.Reed from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Mar 22 10:34:48 1998 Subject: Re: Wooden Forms/beveling I like the rod produced. Only problem is a shop full of planingforms.George George, I remember not too long ago you said something about a process forputting the bevel on your wood forms. I think you mentioned it was foranother time. Is it time to share yet? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from 106256.3171@compuserve.com Sun Mar 22 11:40:49 1998 Subject: London Fishing Shops?? LAA31277 In addition to the Hardy shop at one end of Pall Mall and the Farlow shopat the other end there is also a new shop called "tight lines" or "tighedlines", well its something like that anyway in the middle of PAll Mall.They haven't got such a large range of stock as the other two but it isstill worth a visit for fly tying and fly fishing gear. just entering Farlows in a search engine will find it. regards Mick. from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Mar 22 13:05:56 1998 Subject: Lambuth Book All,Ken Callahan - (603) 924-3726 - has a copy of Lambuth's "AnAngler'sWorkshop" for sale. 1979 Ltd Ed. $75 Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Mar 22 13:07:20 1998 Subject: Re: Production Rods Jeffrey R. Stickle wrote:Could good production methods cut buildtime down to 40 hours? At that time you could make 225 rods. At $500each wholesale that is $112,500.00. According to estimates ( from Keane) the Payne shop was turning out700rods a year. This would raise your take home pay (less heavier taxes) toapprox. $35K. from reading and coversations with people who worked in productionshops I give the following estimates for each step of the operation(times probably could be doubled). [Question: is this how an IndustrialEngineer might see it from a Methods and Times study?]: An entireculmcould be sawn to strips in 5 minutes (neat saw, Payne had). Only Edwardsconcerned himself with making a rod from a single culm, so the stripsare tossed into a pile according to intended length/use. The 18 stripsnecessary for a 2/2 rod could have their tapers cut in 18 minutes. (Thiswas usually Jim Payne's job. Probably did a pile of butts then switchedpatterns for tips.) Add another 36 minutes for straightening andpressing nodes. Selecting (10 min), glueing (1 minute, with hide glue intank), binding (3 min)and straightening(3 min) takes 17 more minutes.Allow at least 60 minutes for cleaning, polishing, and furtherstraightening (if necessary) the dried blanks (hide glue). [136 min]Select butt and tips (10 min), cut to length (3 minutes "measuretwice,cut once"), ferrule (purchased from outside supplier) and fit (at least36 min), turn down butt for cork and reelseat (5 min), install reelseat(3 min.)(purchased from outside supplier), build grip, turn down, addcheck (30 min.).Add guides and decorative wraps (I've heard of amazing times forthis,but I would say 100 min.). Dip (6 dip tubes going at once in some shops,I know a fellow that uses 3) 30 minutes. Total working time 212 minutes. This involves no static time forcuring, etc., because this is production, nor does it take into accountmovement between tasks. Quadruple this time and you have still less than15 hours per rod. This is, of course, double what some shops boasted of"one rod, per man, per day".What'cha think?Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Sun Mar 22 13:08:37 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Ed Estlow's ethos Carsten,See below. Carsten Jorgensen wrote:Perhaps the difference between the british and the american approach is,thatthe Britsh commercialize the past in another way than americans might betemptedto. How is this? Being of neither of the two countries, but admireing both, allow to me tostate the fact that history, going back to medieval times, are morepresent inEngland than in US, for obvious reasons. This might be the reason thatbritons,as a whole, have a more relaxed attitude towards these things. History ISa partof everyday living in a more visible way in England. (Castles and humblecottages, roman roads and all the tourist stuff is definately the realthing,everywhere.) Carsten, I'll admit that only a small percentage of North Americanshave a history on these shores greater than 370 years, and for theothers it's only 10,000. (Of course, a large number of the British Iknow were born in Bombay or Mobay and have their own history.) In the U.S. we can make traditions in 15 minutes, history takes alittle longer. But we do value what we have. Why even our town cemeteryhas written above the arch, "Dedicated to the Wives and Mothers of1776". Being a citizen in a country, a kingdom for a thousand years (Denmark,notEngland) history is very much present. Our flag is some 700 hundred yearsold,churches the same age. Hell, we even ruled England once. Everyone seems to have had their day ruling England. Picts, Celts,Romans, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Northmen, and in modern history, "bonesand ragmen"(G.K. Chesterton). Does waving the flag and going to church (or fishing a cane rod) makesme ahistory buff? Certainly not. I, like the rest of my countrymen, expiriencehistory every day. Can,t avoid it, its all over the place. Does appriciatingSaxo (an eleventh century historican) makes me outdated? I certainly hopenot. We all experience history every day, for some it is memory of ol'MissEnders when you walk past her house. Sure, she's only been dead fortwenty years, but she is your history.What I was referring to (and I wasn't being negative) was the personwho wishes to recreate a distant era. That is their right, enjoy!However, it does remind one of the dinner scene from Dicken's "BleakHouse"(?) where the conversation becomes sanguine "Blood is everything","Blood will tell", and the narrator says something like "they are liketurnips, the best part of them is underground". My problem wasn't with history, which is inevitable (but can beconveniently rewritten at will), but with those words "the fortunatefew".Best regards,Reed from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Mar 22 13:48:42 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA49792 +0100 Subject: Paul Young Cataloq NAA05346 Does anyone have a PHY Catalog from the early seventies, or earlier, thattheywould xerox me a copy of?Anything PHY related is of interest. I`ll cover the cost of copying andmailing,obviously. To save bandwith, you are welcome to reply off-list Regards Carsten cmj@post11.tele.dk from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Mar 22 17:50:44 1998 head.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id QAA14255; Sun, 22 Mar199816:10:58 -0500 Subject: Re: Production Rods Reed You make it sound too much like work - got to keep it fun or you willlose interest. Chris On Sun, 22 Mar 1998 12:06:20 -0500, Reed F. Curry wrote: Jeffrey R. Stickle wrote:Could good production methods cut buildtime down to 40 hours? At that time you could make 225 rods. At $500each wholesale that is $112,500.00. According to estimates ( from Keane) the Payne shop was turning out700rods a year. This would raise your take home pay (less heavier taxes) toapprox. $35K. from reading and coversations with people who worked in productionshops I give the following estimates for each step of the operation(times probably could be doubled). [Question: is this how an IndustrialEngineer might see it from a Methods and Times study?]: Anentire culmcould be sawn to strips in 5 minutes (neat saw, Payne had). Only Edwardsconcerned himself with making a rod from a single culm, so the stripsare tossed into a pile according to intended length/use. The 18 stripsnecessary for a 2/2 rod could have their tapers cut in 18 minutes. (Thiswas usually Jim Payne's job. Probably did a pile of butts then switchedpatterns for tips.) Add another 36 minutes for straightening andpressing nodes. Selecting (10 min), glueing (1 minute, with hide glue intank), binding (3 min)and straightening(3 min) takes 17 more minutes.Allow at least 60 minutes for cleaning, polishing, and furtherstraightening (if necessary) the dried blanks (hide glue). [136 min]Select butt and tips (10 min), cut to length (3 minutes "measuretwice,cut once"), ferrule (purchased from outside supplier) and fit (at least36 min), turn down butt for cork and reelseat (5 min), install reelseat(3 min.)(purchased from outside supplier), build grip, turn down, addcheck (30 min.).Add guides and decorative wraps (I've heard of amazing times forthis,but I would say 100 min.). Dip (6 dip tubes going at once in some shops,I know a fellow that uses 3) 30 minutes. Total working time 212 minutes. This involves no static time forcuring, etc., because this is production, nor does it take into accountmovement between tasks. Quadruple this time and you have still less than15 hours per rod. This is, of course, double what some shops boasted of"one rod, per man, per day".What'cha think?Best regards,Reed from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Mar 22 18:02:21 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Bevel Angle At 02:51 22/03/98 EST, Darryl wrote: So I settled on 32 degrees for my roughingplane, and 28 degrees for my final plane. Darryl Hayashida Darryl, Just checked my planes to see just where I'm sharping too now with myStarrett Protractor and found that the micro-bevel is 35 degrees andmain-bevel is 32 degrees. Are you using a quality protractor to check you blade angles? Don from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sun Mar 22 18:11:16 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAC4970 +0000 Subject: Re: Paul Young Cataloq Centennial Publications sells a reproduction of the 1954 catalog. At 07:46 PM 3/22/98 +0100, you wrote:Does anyone have a PHY Catalog from the early seventies, or earlier, thatthey would xerox me a copy of?Anything PHY related is of interest. I`ll cover the cost of copying andmailing, obviously. To save bandwith, you are welcome to reply off-list Regards Carsten cmj@post11.tele.dk Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sun Mar 22 18:24:33 1998 Subject: Re: Poly Varnish.... Jon,Poly Varnish should be dry within 24 hours. You must be putting it on too thick.Try thinning it with mineral spirits and use more coats. Dave L. from bairdart@burgoyne.com Sun Mar 22 19:33:17 1998 Subject: "Senate" fly rod anyone, I purchased a fly rod that is unusual. The bamboo is round instead of hex. All of the hardware is nickel silver, with some nice detail engraved. The real seat is solid ns. The tip tops are fashioned from ns wire , laid against the bamboo and silk wrapped on. You can see that the bamboo is six sided then milled perfectly round. It is three piece with two tips. Everything on the rod is original. The wraps are green tipped red. The only marking on the rod is Senate stampped into the real seat. The tipps are very delicate and the action very slow. Thanks in advance to anyone who might be able to tell me more on this rod. Bob B from JDemp1@aol.com Sun Mar 22 20:10:39 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers I visited with Barry this past Jan---quite a nice machine, it is a Milleractuallyprice is in the 3-5 thousand range depending on options (power feed etc)will be back over there this May/JuneJed from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 22 23:57:42 1998 Subject: Re: Test -ing123 from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Mar 23 00:10:34 1998 Subject: test - not read just a damn test from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Mar 23 00:37:03 1998 Subject: Re: production rods -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: production rods Gentlemen, I have no intention of ever producing rods for sale, so this isnone of my business, but it seems to me that the independent rodbuilders could benefit from a rodmakers guild to collectivelyadvertise the concept of cane rods. Funded with a contribution of1/2 % or 1 % of the maker's sales. Frank Stetzer, Can't be a new idea!? :) But seems reasonable. An ad might be funded and put in a leading periodical. Ad might statesomeattributes of cane and cane fishing - 1/2 or 1/4 page ad perhaps. Guildcould handle inquires, send out info about who makes cane rods bygeographical area as well as info about rod making classes. I would hope a guild would be open minded rather than restrictive aboutmembership. .02 worth, ted g. from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Mar 23 06:51:36 1998 Subject: Re: test test, problems with server---------- from tedgodfreys@erols.com Mon Mar 23 08:13:47 1998 Subject: Re: test tg -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: test test, problems with server---------- test ted g. from EMiller257@aol.com Mon Mar 23 08:16:19 1998 Subject: Re: Planes Thanks Tom, I'm going to look it over asap. There are so many good ideas inTPF that I forget them until I run into a problem and try to find a solution.Sometimes I take my folder of back issues and page through it just forthatreason. OBTW, I had the pleasure of taking a rod building class taught byRonBarch here in the last month. He's a great guy and helped me a ton. Everyperson in the class came away with rod sections glued up and a wealth ofinfo.Quite an experience.EdMiller from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Mar 23 09:13:11 1998 Subject: Commercial rod making While you folks are pursuing the "commercial" rod building line, you might,just out of interest, take a look at the May, 1929 issue of ScientificAmerican. There is a two-page spread, with 13 photos, of bamboo rodbuilding at the Goodwin Granger Co. The title is: " from Bamboo Forests toFishing Rods." Interesting photos of the nodes being ground off with whatappears to be a huge drum sander, and other interesting stuff.Jerry Snider from bjcoch@arkansas.net Mon Mar 23 09:35:58 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id JAA16041 for Subject: Re: [1] plane angle Tony Young wrote: I bought a 9-1/2 recently as I wanted to have a few planes handy to savestopping and sharpening too often and thought I'd try this rather thanget another 60-1/2. Tony; I have two planes and 10 irons. I sharpen all the irons and thensimplyreplace them as they dull. This way I don't have a fortune invested inplanes(just in irons). I agree with your thoughts on hock irons but I have a fewjapanese irons that are far superior to the hock product, you do have togetusedto a pull plane instead of a push plane but man do they shave fine!! BryantC. from MMills1189@aol.com Mon Mar 23 10:12:31 1998 Subject: Measuring tools Hi,Can anyone tell me a good web source for purchasing precissionmeasuringtools(Dial calipers, depth guages,etc). ThanksMark Mills from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Mar 23 10:38:42 1998 Subject: RE:Measuring tools RO>Hi,RO> Can anyone tell me a good web source for purchasing precissionmeasuringRO>toolsRO>(Dial calipers, depth guages,etc). ThanksRO>Mark Mills Mark, If you mean inexpensive when you say "good", then try Harbor Freight'ssite: http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/html/hotitems/powertools/main.html I live near one of their CA stores and have purchased both a 6" S.S.dial caliper (~$15 on sale) and a 1" dial indicator (~$7 on sale) fromthem.Both were made in China and seem to work well for non-heavy-dutyusage. The stores and web site/catalog have different pricing. So if youcan go to a store and can wait for a sale, you'll beat the everydaycatalog price. Don Burns from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Mar 23 10:48:18 1998 Subject: Re: Commercial rod making That issue of "SA" is hard to come by, but if you go to page 18 of"Colorado Classic Cane" (Dick Spurr & Michael Sinclair -1991) You'll find areproduction of the same two pages. Gary At 10:08 AM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:While you folks are pursuing the "commercial" rod building line, youmight,just out of interest, take a look at the May, 1929 issue of ScientificAmerican. There is a two-page spread, with 13 photos, of bamboo rodbuilding at the Goodwin Granger Co. The title is: " from Bamboo Forests toFishing Rods." Interesting photos of the nodes being ground off with whatappears to be a huge drum sander, and other interesting stuff.Jerry Snider from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Mon Mar 23 11:51:14 1998 with ESMTP id 117 for ;Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:54:32 -0600 Subject: Re: Commercial rod making If anyone has access to that copy of S.A., I would sure be happy to pay tohavea copy of the article made and sent and Ill bet others would too! Thanks Jim Kubichek May, 1929 issue of Scientific American. There is a two-page spread, with13photos, of bamboo rod building at the Goodwin Granger Co. The title is:"FromBamboo Forests to Fishing Rods." Jerry Snider from CALucker@aol.com Mon Mar 23 12:58:29 1998 Subject: Re: Paul Young Cataloq Sure. I'll copy for you tomorrow morning.Chris Lucker from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Mar 23 13:07:40 1998 Subject: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? I'm sure we have all heard the question in some formor another. I have never been able to come up with a good answer. My first reaction is to answer "If you have to ask, you won't understand the answer". The funniest answer I have heard is "It's like polyester underwear. It lasts longer and is easier to take care of, but just doesn'tfeel the same". of the taper when you have to buy the blank instead ofmaking it yourself, but for a cane rod buyer this isn'ta good justification for spending twice as much or more How do you answer this question? Darryl Hayashida from eestlow@srminc.com Mon Mar 23 13:18:21 1998 1997)) id862565D0.0069889A ; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:12:42 -0600 Subject: Re: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? Darryl and the list, I believe we can never answer why another should buy a bamboo rod. Thebestwe could ever do is tell someone asking that question why we ourselvesbuyand/or make bamboo. People learn by observing someone with credibilityandpassion for the subject. We teach the same way - by showing the way,withcredibility and passion. Regards,Ed from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon Mar 23 13:34:38 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA266721511; Mon, 23 Mar 1998 11:31:51 -0800 Subject: RE: Why should I get a bamboo flyrod I fished the McKenzie River Saturday. There were at least three types of flies hatching. I fished an 8' 5 wt. rod I made, and a 7' 4 wt. Thramer rod. I cast here and there and everywhere, but caught nothing. After 5 hours of casting with no fish rising to my fly or taking it from the depths I went home and told everyone I had a great day fishing. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Mar 23 14:13:49 1998 Subject: Re: Commercial rod making If this is the second time this comes through I'm sorry, I'm having a bitof the sick list blues. That issue of "SA" is hard to come by, but if you go to page 18 of"Colorado Classic Cane" (Dick Spurr & Michael Sinclair -1991) You'll find areproduction of the same two pages. Gary At 10:08 AM 3/23/98 -0500, you wrote:While you folks are pursuing the "commercial" rod building line, youmight,just out of interest, take a look at the May, 1929 issue of ScientificAmerican. There is a two-page spread, with 13 photos, of bamboo rodbuilding at the Goodwin Granger Co. The title is: " from Bamboo Forests toFishing Rods." Interesting photos of the nodes being ground off with whatappears to be a huge drum sander, and other interesting stuff.Jerry Snider from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Mar 23 14:32:11 1998 Subject: Re: Commercial rod making Don't know if a xerox of a xerox will duplicate well, but would be happy tosendcopies to anyone who might want them. It is only a two page article, onepage ofphotos, the second of text/photos. At 11:48 AM 3/23/98 -0600, you wrote: If anyone has access to that copy of S.A., I would sure be happy to pay tohave a copy of the article made and sent and Ill bet others would too! Thanks Jim Kubichek May, 1929 issue of Scientific American. There is a two-page spread,with 13 photos, of bamboo rod building at the Goodwin Granger Co. The title is:"From Bamboo Forests to Fishing Rods." Jerry Snider Jerry Snider Trout Grouch e-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.edu "I never string up a trout rod without wild anticipation. Often, I'vebeen exhausted on trout streams, uncomfortable, wet, cold, briar- scarred,sunburned, mosquito-bitten, but never, with a fly rod in my hand, have Ibeen unhappy." Charles Kuralt, from "Charles Kuralt'sAmerica." from RVenneri@aol.com Mon Mar 23 14:50:32 1998 beforged)) Subject: Re: Measuring tools Dear MarkYou could try Manhattan Supply Corp. There Prices are verry good and theyalmost always ship same day .www. mscdirect.com. Hope that helps from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Mar 23 14:51:57 1998 beforged)) Subject: Guide wraps I am getting ready to restore a Pezon and Michel salmon rod. The guidewrapsare similar to those Hardy used at times in that the thread winds up theguidefoot as usual, but at the end turn back on themselves for 5-6 turns, sothatthere is a collar of two thread layers. The last time I tried this was on aHardy, and I nearly went blind trying to wrap the collar without gaps. Isthere an easy way to get this effect? from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 23 14:59:54 1998 0000 Subject: Tapers Hi All,I brought my taper books to work today, if you have a request for ataper I will be happy to honor it today.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com from DrBamboo@aol.com Mon Mar 23 15:05:36 1998 Subject: Glace Cotton John Bradford asked me to share this with the network.He has locatedwhat hethinks is the last available supply of 12/4 natural glaced cotton bindingthread.Thisis John's favorite size for all around binding.As John said this is "ThePerfect Shit".In order to get some for himself he had to buy the whole lot.He wants tosharethese 1 lb. spools at cost .Price is $20 which includes shipping.Anyoneinterestedcan contact John. FAX 817-263- 4404Phone 817-292-3324 This is a non profit offerGeorge from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Mon Mar 23 15:12:20 1998 0500 Subject: Re: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? Some may not want to hear this, but the cosmetics of bamboo rods are one key reason why some people will spend the money for them. I am notashamed to admit that I am one of these people. However, there are other reasons thatare just as important to me. The action and feel, roll casting ability, the way the rod seems to castitself when you get it right (not something I always do), is just as high on mylist. Then there is the history and the precision and craftmanship that'sinvolved in its making. I like thinking about what it must have been like to fish 100years ago....the gear, the unspoiled coutryside...I can appreciate a fine bamboo rod even more now that I have some (though admitedly limited) idea what'sinvolved in making one. Once (hopefully) I do make one I bet that will open a wholenew world of appreciation for me. Any one of these reasons may not be enough to make me spend big bucks ona new bamboo rod, but together all this makes using a bamboo rod all the more pleasurable, and therefore worth buying. As a matter of fact I did justthat. I hope to have it in April. I don't look at fishing gear as just a means to an end, and I appreciate all kinds (including graphite rods...which I DON'T feel are all alike, spinning gear, 'old' previously owned tackle, etc.). I appreciate the diversity. Conditions, my mood, quarry, location...all influence what I decide to fishwithat any given time. While I can still have a great time fishing with cheap, ugly, poor quality gear, I certainly enjoy it much, much more with tacklethat looks and feels good. With bamboo you can get that and more. Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? Author: at Tcpgate I'm sure we have all heard the question in some formor another. I have never been able to come up with a good answer. My first reaction is to answer "If you have to ask, you won't understand the answer". The funniest answer I have heard is "It's like polyester underwear. It lasts longer and is easier to take care of, but just doesn'tfeel the same". of the taper when you have to buy the blank instead ofmaking it yourself, but for a cane rod buyer this isn'ta good justification for spending twice as much or more How do you answer this question? Darryl Hayashida from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 23 15:17:13 1998 Subject: 8' 5wt 2pc A brief refresher, Dx md fast dry, Px md semi-para. This is the taper for a Px taper0-.0785-.09210-.10615-.11620-.12825-.14230-.16035-.17840- .19445-.20650-.21455-.22260-.23065-.25670-.28275-.30080-.31885- .330to96"-.330 It uses a 14/64 ferrule, and weighs 4 1/8oz wet with a Bellinger SBseat. A comfortable medium action with a good reserve of power and noindelicacy to the tippet. The Px rods are my favorite type of taper forpersonal use. As always I am morally opposed to WF lines as being aninstrument of the devil and the rod should be used with a DT lineA.J.Thramer from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Mon Mar 23 15:22:42 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Mon, 23 Mar 98 16:21:24 EST Subject: guide spacing I would be grateful for any input on how one ought to pick (andadjust) the increment spacing on Wayne's GUIDE program. (How) do youvaryit with different sized rods? Thanks, Prof. Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Literature and LanguageCentral Michigan University (Mark.M.Freed@cmich.edu) from jfoster@gte.net Mon Mar 23 15:34:24 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers Hi AJ I'd certainly like to build one of your 7.5' , i think you said it was apara...??? (not as fast) also if you would like me not to put them on the page i would glad tohonor that, or i'll post them with your premission.. regards Jerry Foster from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Mon Mar 23 15:43:09 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Mon, 23 Mar 98 16:41:36 EST Subject: Re: Glace Cotton Have you tried Atlanta Thread Supply? They had no plans todiscontinue carrying the stuff when I ordered last Fall. At 03:56 PM 3/23/98 EST, you wrote:John Bradford asked me to share this with the network.He has locatedwhat hethinks is the last available supply of 12/4 natural glaced cotton bindingthread.Thisis John's favorite size for all around binding.As John said this is "ThePerfect Shit".In order to get some for himself he had to buy the whole lot.He wants tosharethese 1 lb. spools at cost .Price is $20 which includes shipping.Anyoneinterestedcan contact John. FAX 817-263-4404Phone 817-292-3324 This is a non profit offerGeorge Prof. Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Literature and LanguageCentral Michigan University (Mark.M.Freed@cmich.edu) from CALucker@aol.com Mon Mar 23 15:45:58 1998 Subject: Re: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? If, when you say "For me it's the tapers. You just can't get the fine tuningof the taper when you have to buy the blank instead ofmaking it yourself," you mean to imply that you cannot fine tune a graphiteorfiberglass blank, I recommend that you try some of Russ Peak's work. Youcando a lot of fine tuning with sand paper, balsa wood dowels and fiberglasstubes. Russ was my source for perfect and very near perfect blind corkrings(no pre-drilled shaft holes). I used watch Russ tinker with the action ofhisKennedy Fisher blanks.Chris Lucker from donkovach@email.msn.com Mon Mar 23 15:47:45 1998 SMTPSVC;Mon, 23 Mar 1998 13:47:10 -0800 Subject: Re: Adress from Al Medved Al Medved does not currently have an e-mail address. He has talked aboutsigning up for internet service, but as of a few weeks ago he had not yetdone it. He does have printed plans available for building his beveler, buthe does not build and sell them. Don Kovach -----Original Message----- Hi, heres Switzerland In the archives i read about Al Medved and his beveler. Anyone knowshis adress/e-mail?Someones know this beveler? from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Mar 23 16:00:30 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAC19430 +0100 Subject: The Silver Lake Rod QAA26363 Everybody - HELP please Has been contacted by a fellow, who from his grandfather has inheritedthe lowerpart of a rod called "The Silver Lake Rod". He has asked me to make him themissing tip. The rod is described as probably 8 feet long, and with no moretextthan the name. Does anybody have the sligthest idea of, what this is? And if miracles arepossible - how about a taper? And yes, I did ask further questions (color of tippets, type of ferrule etc.)but the poor mannie canna see one end from the other of a fish'pole! Any, and I do mean ANY, information will be appriciated. Best regards Carsten from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Mar 23 16:00:34 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAB19430 +0100 Subject: Sv: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? QAA18570 -----Oprindelig meddelelse----- Subjekt: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? My answer is: The feeling, man - the feeling So it might be a bit short (not my style) but the feeling is the essentialpartof fishing bamboo. Sorry, can't come any closer Best regards Carsten from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Mon Mar 23 16:46:21 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 23 Mar 98 17:35:32 EST Subject: Re: Tapers AJ, Always enjoy your posts. For my next rod, I'd like to try a 8', 7wt,light salmon rod. Garrison has something close, but I'm concerned it mightnot be quick enough for my liking. Would you have a recommendation? --Bob. At 01:04 PM 3/23/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi All,I brought my taper books to work today, if you have a request for ataper I will be happy to honor it today.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Mar 23 16:54:07 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers A.J.I had the pleasure of casting one of your 7'9" 3wt rods that I rememberbeinga 3pc. One fellow had it at Grayrock last summer but I've forgotten who itwas. I'd love to make one for myself someday.Many Thanks!!, Rob Hoffhines from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Mar 23 17:25:08 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: [1] plane angle OK, Bryant, I'll bite. Tell us more about the Japanese planes and irons...Where doyou get them, what do they cost, how do you use them, etc.ThanksHarry Boyd Bryant J. Cochran, Jr. wrote: Tony; I have two planes and 10 irons. I sharpen all the irons and thensimplyreplacethem as they dull. This way I don't have a fortune invested in planes (justinirons).I agree with your thoughts on hock irons but I have a few japanese ironsthatare farsuperior to the hock product, you do have to get used to a pull planeinstead ofa pushplane but man do they shave fine!! Bryant C. from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Mar 23 17:28:50 1998 Subject: Re: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? Darryl, I believe that when someone decides that his trade or hobby is importantto him that he gets the best tools for the job. If you are a golfer, you crave Ping clubs; a shooter, a Purdy shotgun; arace car driver, a F1 car - not because they're sexy or "the fellows"will be envious, but because they're the best tools for the job. (okay -maybe some of my examples are challengeable) Bamboo isn't right for a fellow that's just taking up the sport of FFand might not stick with it. It's place is with the person that hasdecided to spend a good deal of his time enjoying this sport. If thatsomeone is a bonefish fisherman, then bamboo is a toy - if the person isdry fly fisher on a gin-clear spring creek and is using 6x or 7x tippetso as to not spook trout, then a bamboo rod will outshine any make ofstiff graphite rods. It's now the proper tool. It's not a cure-all orrequired rod for everyone that goes FFing. Also, if someone is enjoying FFing for the historical aspects of thesport, then bamboo can very well be the only type of rod (greenhearttoo?) that the person should own. But then maybe a historical classicbamboo rod or reproduction might be best here with a silk or horsehairflyline. A 2nd example of this type of sport would be a black-powdershooter with his muzzle-loading rifle. All IMHO, Don Burns from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 23 18:20:40 1998 Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:19:21 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: [1] plane angle On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, Bryant J. Cochran, Jr. wrote: Tony Young wrote: I bought a 9-1/2 recently as I wanted to have a few planes handy tosavestopping and sharpening too often and thought I'd try this rather thanget another 60-1/2. Tony; I have two planes and 10 irons. I sharpen all the irons and thensimplyreplace them as they dull. This way I don't have a fortune invested inplanes(just in irons). I agree with your thoughts on hock irons but I have afewjapanese irons that are far superior to the hock product, you do have togetusedto a pull plane instead of a push plane but man do they shave fine!!BryantC. You're right about the Japaneese irons being better than Hock, my problem with them from the point of view of planing rods is that the laminated cutting edge is so brittle it may be a problem with coming into contact with the steel of the forms? My forms are wood so it's not a problem.Garret Wade (before pulling out of Australia) used to sell Japaneese irons for the 60 - 1/2 & 9 1/2. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Mar 23 18:29:39 1998 Tue, 24 Mar 1998 08:27:46 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? On Mon, 23 Mar 1998, SalarFly wrote: I'm sure we have all heard the question in some formor another. I have never been able to come up with a good answer. My first reaction is to answer "If you have to ask, you won't understand the answer". The funniest answer I have heard is "It's like polyester underwear. It lasts longer and is easier to take care of, but just doesn'tfeel the same". of the taper when you have to buy the blank instead ofmaking it yourself, but for a cane rod buyer this isn'ta good justification for spending twice as much or more How do you answer this question? Darryl Hayashida If the person has used a cane rod before and asks I generaly say something like "perhaps a cane rod isn't for you". Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Mar 23 18:33:47 1998 Subject: Re: Guide wraps TSmithwick wrote:are similar to those Hardy used at times in that the thread winds up theguidefoot as usual, but at the end turn back on themselves for 5-6 turns, sothatthere is a collar of two thread layers. there an easy way to get this effect? Tom,When I do double wraps on ferrules I do the first wrap and completeasnormal, then I put on one varnish coat, which mostly soaks in. After thevarnish dries, I put the second wrap right over the first.Would this work for you? 5-6 turns is about what you do for thoseintermediates you like so much.Best regards,Reed from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Mar 23 19:19:17 1998 Subject: Re: Guide wraps Dear Tom I generally do this sort of work on my fly-tying bench (my cradle is asimpleportable job) where there is permanently installed a good lightedmagnifier. Come to think of it, I do virtually everything I can under that glassnowadays! Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Mar 23 19:25:10 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers Dear A.J. Re. the offer of your tapers (in case you're still at work) I recall yousaying that you had a few which were designed specifically for those whowanted to transition from plastic. If you have such a taper for about a 3 wt. medium-fast dry fly action Iwouldbe very grateful to see it! Thanks,Davy Riggs from anglport@con2.com Mon Mar 23 20:05:51 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA19146 for Subject: Re: Commercial rod making Ditto!!!Art At 11:48 AM 3/23/98 -0600, you wrote:If anyone has access to that copy of S.A., I would sure be happy to pay tohavea copy of the article made and sent and Ill bet others would too! Thanks Jim Kubichek May, 1929 issue of Scientific American. There is a two-page spread,with 13photos, of bamboo rod building at the Goodwin Granger Co. The title is:"FromBamboo Forests to Fishing Rods." Jerry Snider from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 23 21:11:22 1998 0000 Subject: 8ft 4wt Catskill Dry Taper (Dx) 0 .0705 .08610 .10015 .11820 .13425 .14830 .16035 .17440 .18645 .19850 .21255 .22860 .24465 .25870 .27475 .28880 .30485 .322to 96" .322A medium fast traditional dry taper, The Dx tapers are my standardcommercial tapers. 14 ferrule and 3 3/4 oz with a bellinger SB seat.A.J.Thramer from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 23 21:15:39 1998 Subject: production rods and tapers A.J.;I'm glad to hear that you can turn out a rod in such good time and I hopeyou are making a decent living at it. I'm sure it will be quite a few yearsbefore I can even come close. Actually, all I hope for is that I can makeenough to supplement Soc.Sec. if I manage to live that long.If you havealready posted your 8' Dx taper, don't bother to post it again, just tellme so I can look it up in the archives, it sounds like one Iwould love tohave in addition to the Px taper you posted today. Thanks alot for sharingyour hard work with the rest of us.John Channer from bciesiel@goisd.k12.mi.us Mon Mar 23 21:15:45 1998 with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 1.2); Mon, 23 Mar 1998 22:17:40 - 0500 Subject: First Bamboo Rod To rodmakers: I would like to thank the rodmakers web sight for providing me with much of the information needed for helping me build my first bamboo rod this winter. With the help of Wayne and Hoagy Carmichael's books along with added information from the archives I can deem my first endeavor as a success. I hope to make many more. I have been fly fishing in Michigans Upper Peninsula for over 25 years but never with bamboo. I can now fully appreciate the amount of effort it takes to make a bamboo rod and can see why bamboo rods and fly-fishing go hand in hand. Hopefully, at some time in the future I can contribute to your web sight. Thanks again,Brian Ciesielczyke-mail address:bciesiel@goisd.k12.mi.us from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 23 21:16:48 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Tapers Nodewrrior wrote: A.J.I had the pleasure of casting one of your 7'9" 3wt rods that I rememberbeinga 3pc. One fellow had it at Grayrock last summer but I've forgotten whoitwas. I'd love to make one for myself someday.Many Thanks!!, Rob Hoffhines0 .0685 .08210 .09415 .10820 .12025 .13630 .15235 .17040 .18445 .19250 .20455 .21260 .23465 .25470 .27475 .28680 .302to93" .302 An 11 and 16 ferrule, I use truncated on the 3pc rods. 3 7/8 oz with aBellinger seat. This is the semi para taper, If you want a Thramer 3wtthis is probably the only way to get one as I DETEST building them awsthey are so prone to damage from abuse by a clod.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 23 21:19:28 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Tapers Robert Milardo wrote: AJ, Always enjoy your posts. For my next rod, I'd like to try a 8', 7wt,light salmon rod. Garrison has something close, but I'm concerned itmightnot be quick enough for my liking. Would you have a recommendation? --Bob. At 01:04 PM 3/23/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi All,I brought my taper books to work today, if you have a request for ataper I will be happy to honor it today.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill HallUniv. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128Bob, I will dig up the 'big wood' taper book for tommorrow. It will be afull para taper for a lt steelhead rod.A.J. from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 23 21:28:58 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Tapers Jerry Foster wrote: Hi AJ I'd certainly like to build one of your 7.5' , i think you said it was apara...??? (not as fast) also if you would like me not to put them on the page i would glad tohonor that, or i'll post them with your premission.. regards Jerry Foster0 .0745 .08610 .10015 .11420 .12625 .14430 .16235 .17840 .19245 .20050 .21255 .22060 .22865 .25270 .28475 .30080 .316to 90" .316This is a Px taper,5wt, 13 ferrule and 3 7/8 oz 0 .0725 .08810 .10215 .12020 .13425 .14830 .16235 .17640 .18845 .20250 .21855 .23460 .25065 .26470 .27875 .29280 .302to 90" .302This is a Dx 5wt taper, 13 ferrule and 3 5/8 oz from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 23 21:30:41 1998 0000 Subject: Posting tapers Jerry Foster wrote: Hi AJ I'd certainly like to build one of your 7.5' , i think you said it was apara...??? (not as fast) also if you would like me not to put them on the page i would glad tohonor that, or i'll post them with your premission.. regards Jerry FosterJerry,Please feel welcome to put the tapers on your website. Any taper I sendout I will consider to be OK for publication. from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 23 21:36:13 1998 0000 Subject: 8ft 5wt Castkill Dry (Dx) 0 .0745 .09010 .10615 .12420 .14025 .15630 .17035 .18240 .19645 .20850 .22255 .23460 .25065 .26670 .28075 .29680 .31285 .330to 96" .330A classically tapered 8ft 5wt, 14 ferrule, 4 1/8oz. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Mar 23 23:03:45 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA8789 +0000 Subject: Re: Commercial rod making Perhaps someone with a copy can scan for posting on Jerry Foster'swebsite??? George Bourke ----------From: Jerry Snider Subject: Commercial rod makingDate: Monday, March 23, 1998 7:08 AM While you folks are pursuing the "commercial" rod building line, youmight,just out of interest, take a look at the May, 1929 issue of ScientificAmerican. There is a two-page spread, with 13 photos, of bamboo rodbuilding at the Goodwin Granger Co. The title is: " from Bamboo Forests toFishing Rods." Interesting photos of the nodes being ground off withwhatappears to be a huge drum sander, and other interesting stuff.Jerry Snider from KDLoup@aol.com Mon Mar 23 23:25:56 1998 Subject: Re: [1] plane angle Harry, The Japan Woodworker (see Rodmakers page) carries Japanese planeirons.However, I don't remember seeing any that fit a 9 1/2. Being hand madesomeare very pricy (one is $202) while others are in the $30-40 range.Unfortunately, the catalog appears to carry irons for wooden bodied planesonly. Kurt Loup from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Mar 24 00:36:22 1998 Tue, 24 Mar 1998 14:36:07 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: [1] plane angle On Tue, 24 Mar 1998, KDLoup wrote: Harry, The Japan Woodworker (see Rodmakers page) carries Japanese planeirons.However, I don't remember seeing any that fit a 9 1/2. Being hand madesomeare very pricy (one is $202) while others are in the $30-40 range.Unfortunately, the catalog appears to carry irons for wooden bodiedplanesonly. Kurt Loup Give Garret Wade a try. I got a Japanees iron for a wooden body bench plane at the same time I ordered my Hock and was told they were available time and prefered to sell me one of them rather than get the Hock in forme.Laminated cutting tools from Japan are extremly nice tools to use and I get all goose bumpy when I take out my Japaneese chisels to use *but* the edges are brittle, so although you shouldn't ever drop a chisel or iron you may not get too many chances with these. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Mar 24 07:24:37 1998 Subject: Re: Guide wraps In a message dated 3/24/98 12:37:14 AM, you wrote: It might, I stripped the rod last night and confirmed they used the sametechnique as Hardy. This is the first Pezon & Michel I have ever done, and Iam impressed with the quality of the rod. I'll post the taper as soon as Ican. from EMiller257@aol.com Tue Mar 24 07:52:39 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers A.J., how about your favorite dry fly taper? Ed M. from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Mar 24 07:57:27 1998 0700 Subject: Plane blade angles At 22:42 21/03/98 EST, you wrote:Don,I figure the 25 deg. angle is "sharper " than the 37 deg. Is that what youmeant? I know that Tony likes the 60 1/2 plane with what I call the sharperangle.This is not meant to be a flame-I'm truly asking for info.Regards,Hank. Hank, The 25 deg. angle is certainly more pointed but sharper, I don't know. WhatI do know is that it will lift/chip nodes or anywhere else the grain ofthe cane runs away from the plane. The steeper angle of the micro beveltends to stop the chipping thing a lot. Still there is no substitute forstraight cane. Occasionally you get a strip with a node that will not plane withoutchipping no matter the attempted cure. I find about the only way to get bythis sore spot is to reverse the planning action. Flipping the forms andcane every 2 strokes is a pain but does the job.About once/ winter I get a strip like this - expect that most of us do. regards, Don from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Mar 24 07:57:28 1998 0700 Subject: And we can't agree on much Guys, This a resend of a previous post that was eaten by the list server lastweekend. For those that got it I apologize for resending - for those thatdidn't, perhaps there's some food for thought. I modified the post a tad since the weekend reflecting furtherdisagreements. Guys, Had a guy over yesterday who is just starting the cane building businessand attempting to understand the processes involved. As I went into myspiel, I realized from the contacts I've had over the past 15 years withfolks that build cane rods that we don't agree on much. Cane Suppliers: There are at least two with their fans Cane Splitting: At least three methods Cane Tempering: At least 4>5 methods and don't let us get intotemperatures/time stuff. Form material: Wood, steel and aluminum Forms: Push/pull, Garrison method and now milling machines Binders: At least 3 systems using a host of binding cords, drive belts andthe rest Planes: Most of us agree on the 9 1/2 with fans of both Stanley and Record. Sharpening angles: Seems to be a lot of different experiences here Glues: At least 5 are prevalent - Shell epon, Urac, Titebond II, Nytrex andresorcinol Node or Nodeless - the jury is still out How many Strips: 4 or 5 or 6 or ? Tempering: Before final planning or before Humidity Control: For those that live in soggy places Finish Materials: Varnish, Varathane, Tung Oil, animal droppings and whoknows what else Finish Method: Dipping, Spraying, Finger Painting, Hand rubbing Guides: Perfections, Pac Bay, H&H, make 'em yourself, single or doublefoot, Fugi [ugh] Wrappings: Nylon or Silk - and don't forget the variegations Color Persever or not: and the bunch of methods Flaming: Or not Impregnation: Or not And so on and so on. There was a discussion on the list about a year ago of how to use thebestprocess to build the best rod. Don't think we've arrived there yet. So I unconfused the poor bugger and told him how I do it. Then, when hegets a few cane cuts, he can figure out what works for him. regards, Don from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Mar 24 07:59:26 1998 Subject: Tapers A.J. Thramer,Thank You for sharing with the list.Gary Heidt from bairdart@burgoyne.com Tue Mar 24 08:00:58 1998 Subject: "Senate" fly rod bairdart@burgoyne.com wrote: anyone,I purchased a fly rod that is unusual. The bamboo is round instead ofhex. All of the hardware is nickel silver, with some nice detailengraved. The real seat is solid ns. The tip tops are fashioned from nswire , laid against the bamboo and silk wrapped on. You can see that thebamboo is six sided then milled perfectly round. It is three piece withtwo tips. Everything on the rod is original. The wraps are green tippedred. The only marking on the rod is Senate stampped into the real seat.The tipps are very delicate and the action very slow. Thanks in advanceto anyone who might be able to tell me more on this rod. Bob B from EMiller257@aol.com Tue Mar 24 08:12:36 1998 Subject: Record 9 1/2 Would anyone have a source for parts to repair a Record 9 1/2 block plane?Ineed a new adjusting lever (moves the iron forward and back) and the localretailer cant order one until he has a minimum order for Record products.Anyhelp would be much appreciated. Ed Miller from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Tue Mar 24 09:50:53 1998 Subject: planes All the talk about plane iron angles has raised a question in my mind.I'm gradually assembling the tools to build my first rod. As a hobbyistcabinetmaker, I have many of the tools, but the only QUALITY (i.e.,fully adjustable throat, etc.) block plane I have is a Stanley low angleplane. My budget is very tight (hence the decision to build a bamboorod rather than buy one) and I don't want to run out and spend $50 on a9 1/2 plane unless I have to. Will my low angle plane do the trick? Ithink Garrison used one sometimes. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 24 10:17:34 1998 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much That's exactly why this list exists. If we all agreed on everything,all we would need to do is put it in a FAQ, and we could all forgetabout this discussion list. I'm glad we all don't all agree on everything. I think Tony Young put it very succinctly a few months ago:"Wot, there's only one way to skin a cat?" Darryl Hayashida from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue Mar 24 10:51:03 1998 24 Mar 98 08:30:21 -0500 0500 24 Mar 98 08:30:07 -0500 Subject: do not enter this is a test no email for a day boundary="----=_NextPart_000_005C_01BD56FF.0C8DA2E0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BD56FF.0C8DA2E0 test.John McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BD56FF.0C8DA2E0 test.John McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_005C_01BD56FF.0C8DA2E0-- from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Mar 24 10:58:50 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Record 9 1/2 At 09:10 24/03/98 EST, you wrote:Would anyone have a source for parts to repair a Record 9 1/2 blockplane? Ineed a new adjusting lever (moves the iron forward and back) and thelocalretailer cant order one until he has a minimum order for Record products.Anyhelp would be much appreciated. Ed Miller Ed, Give Lee Valley Tools a shout - their web address is on Rodmaker WebPage. They usually carry a large stock of replacement parts for all the toolsthey sell. Don from donkovach@email.msn.com Tue Mar 24 11:22:15 1998 MicrosoftSMTPSVC;Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:21:24 -0800 SMTPSVC;Tue, 24 Mar 1998 09:21:16 -0800 Subject: Test Message boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000D_01BD571F.42B36E20" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BD571F.42B36E20 I have not been able to get a message through to anyone on the list, =even though I receive messages every day. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BD571F.42B36E20 I have not been ableto = day. ------=_NextPart_000_000D_01BD571F.42B36E20-- from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 24 12:06:19 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Tapers EMiller257 wrote: A.J., how about your favorite dry fly taper? Ed M. 0 .0705 .08210 .09615 .11020 .12625 .14230 .15835 .17440 .18645 .19650 .204 55 .21060 .23265 .25870 .27475 .284to 84" .284This is a Px taper, 13 ferrule, 3 5/16oz, 4line. A pleasant taper to usebut the reason it is one of my favorites is that it was my firstsuccessful taper.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 24 12:17:57 1998 0000 Subject: Leonard 38 This is the taper I have for a Leonard 38, 0 .0645 .08010 .09215 .10520 .11825 .13030 .14035 .14840 .15645 .18150 .19855 .21260 .22365 .23570 .25075 27280 .290I don't know how accurate it isA.J.Thramer from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Mar 24 12:33:08 1998 0500 Subject: Why Buy Bamboo? I sent this yesterday but it didn't seem to make it.... Some may not want to hear this, but the cosmetics of bamboo rods are one key reason why some people will spend the money for them. I amnot ashamed to admit that I am one of these people. However, there are other reasons that are just as important to me. The action and feel, roll casting ability, the way the rod seems to cast itself when you get it right (not something I always do), is just as high on my list. Then there is the history and the precision and craftmanship that's involved in its making. I like thinking about what it must have been like to fish 100 years ago....the gear, the unspoiled coutryside. I can appreciate a fine bamboo rod even more now that I have some (though admitedly limited) idea what's involved in making one. Once (hopefully) I do make one I bet that will open a whole new world of appreciation for me. Any one of these reasons may not be enough to make me spend big bucks on a new bamboo rod, but together all this makes using a bamboo rod all the more pleasurable, and therefore worth buying (even a new one). I don't look at fishing gear as just a means to an end, and I appreciate all kinds (including graphite rods...which I DON'T feel are all alike, spinning gear, 'old' previously owned tackle, etc.). I appreciate the diversity. Conditions, my mood, quarry, location...all influence what I decide to fish with at any given time. While I can still have a great time fishing with cheap, ugly, poor quality gear (even I don't cath anything, as someone else said), I certainly enjoy it much, much more with tackle that looks and feels good as well as improves the chance of hooking and landing a fish. Andy from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 24 13:10:19 1998 0000 Subject: 8ft 7wt 0 .0805 .09410 .11015 .12620 .14025 .15830 .17435 .19440 .21245 .22650 .23455 .24260 .24865 .27670 .30275 .32480 .34085 .360to 96" .360This is a Px taper A.J.Thramer from dhaftel@att.com Tue Mar 24 13:13:09 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 10:00:54-0500 Subject: RE: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? 4.0.995.52 intangible aspect of flyfishing. I don't for sure, but it might be thenostalgia, the feel, curiosity, the pastoral experience that some of uslook for while we're fishing, the list goes on... I have about as many graphite rods as I have uses for, and they're ok,but they just don't seem to "round out" the picture. I have made (or toquote Mr. Cattanach... built) quite a few graphite rods and they lookand fish as well as any factory rod I've used. I also like the idea ofcatching a trout on a rod that I made/built/rebuilt, on a fly that Itied, on a leader that I tied, etc... That said, I don't think you can really explain in words the qualitiesof bamboo to the average Joe, and I don't think we'll convert everyone,but you seem to be doing a good job of getting "the word" out. Enough of that esoteric crappie... (I couldn't resist!) They just feelgood! Dennis HaftelIST-COE/APT(732) 805-2714dhaftel@att.com -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Monday, March 23, 1998 2:07 PM Subject: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? I'm sure we have all heard the question in some formor another. I have never been able to come up with a good answer. My first reaction is to answer "If you have to ask, you won't understand the answer". The funniest answer I have heard is "It's like polyester underwear. It lasts longer and is easier to take care of, but just doesn'tfeel the same". of the taper when you have to buy the blank instead ofmaking it yourself, but for a cane rod buyer this isn'ta good justification for spending twice as much or more How do you answer this question? Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 24 14:23:02 1998 Subject: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences Thinking back to our Node vs. Nodeless debate, most ofthe nodeless guys complained about "pesky nodes" andthe lifts and chips they produce. I couldn't see the problemthey were having. Sure I got a few lifts, but they were aminor problem. Surely less of a problem than doing 18to 36 or more scarfs. After experimenting with the bevel angle last Saturday,I started wondering. Perhaps the people having so muchtrouble with lifts are sharpening their plane blades at25 or less degrees. I just happened to start sharpeningat 30 degrees from the start by accident. The directionssaid to sharpen at 25 or 30 degrees, and I chose 30 forno good reason at all. 25 degrees did produce lifts at just about every node during my testing, where 30 degreesproduced none. To go further. About a month ago I wrote in about usinga Stanley Quick-Grip clamp to hold my splines in the form.Others wrote in that holding the splines weren't a problem.Again perhaps they are sharpening at 25 degrees, whilemy irons are at 30 degrees. The steeper angles greatlyincrease the effort it takes to cut a shaving, and having topush harder on the plane will tend to shift the spline in theform. Another difference someone already wrote in about. He saidhe couldn't plane six strips without resharpening, and foundthat the iron stayed sharp longer when sharpened at a steeper angle. What do you think? Something as simple as plane ironbevel account for some of our differences in technique? Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 24 17:20:38 1998 Subject: Re:Why Buy Bamboo? I don't look at fishing gear as just a means to an end, and I appreciate all kinds (including graphite rods...which I DON'T feel are all alike, It's a matter of degree. Get several graphite rods from differentmanufacturers, same length and line weight, and several bamboo rods from different makers. Cast them all, and tell me the graphite rods vary as much as the bamboo rods. This is usually a problem,because if I was trying to duplicate a certain action perfectly, Iprobably won't be able to do it. I can get close, but not exact. Darryl Hayashida from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 24 17:38:27 1998 0000 Subject: Leonard 38 A.J.Thramer wrote: This is the taper I have for a Leonard 38,0 .0645 .08010 .09215 .10520 .11825 .13030 .14035 .14840 .15645 .18150 .19855 .21260 .22365 .23570 .25075 27280 .290I don't know how accurate it isA.J.Thrame from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Mar 24 17:59:21 1998 Subject: Tapers from A.J. Thramer A.J.I didn't request any of your tapers but I wanted to thank you and say Iwill be building the 7'9" 3wt rod you posted for Rob yesterday. Hope youdon't mind but I'll be giving your name second billing when I sign it.Thanks again.Gary p.s. Hope this comes through as I seem to be in list serve limbo. from jfoster@gte.net Tue Mar 24 19:19:48 1998 Subject: web Added Stefan Grau's page to the makers list.Hi Ted. Jerry from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 24 19:44:50 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Tapers from A.J. Thramer Heidt wrote: A.J.I didn't request any of your tapers but I wanted to thank you and sayIwill be building the 7'9" 3wt rod you posted for Rob yesterday. Hope youdon't mind but I'll be giving your name second billing when I sign it.Thanks again.Gary p.s. Hope this comes through as I seem to be in list serve limbo. To all,My tapers are available to all who have an interest, I have spent mostof 20 yrs experimenting and building them. Most of all I have enjoyedusing them and sending the 'little children' out so others may enjoythem;it is a great source of satisfaction to me. In addition I thinkthat others will modify them to fit their own fishing style. I will continue to honor requests as they come in.A.J.Thramer ps The second 'billing' is a nice thing to do, thank you from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Mar 24 19:57:12 1998 Subject: Re: Why Buy Bamboo? Because they are there.Bret from jsbond@inforamp.net Tue Mar 24 21:03:04 1998 Subject: Re: Glace Cotton RE Glace Cotton, This material is readily available in Toronto, it is a standard 4 ply cottonthread used in textile manufacturing. I will post the pricing information JB At 15:56 23/03/98 EST, you wrote:John Bradford asked me to share this with the network.He has locatedwhat hethinks is the last available supply of 12/4 natural glaced cotton bindingthread.Thisis John's favorite size for all around binding.As John said this is "ThePerfect Shit".In order to get some for himself he had to buy the whole lot.He wants tosharethese 1 lb. spools at cost .Price is $20 which includes shipping.Anyoneinterestedcan contact John. FAX 817-263-4404Phone 817-292-3324 This is a non profit offerGeorge James Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from stpete@netten.net Tue Mar 24 22:12:31 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id WAA13429 for Subject: Re: Tapers from A.J. - how'd I miss it? A.J. Thramer, How did I miss the posting for the 7'9" 3 wt? Is it possible to pointme to where I could find it? or if not, could you repost it? That'sone I'd love to have. I was casting to a pod of 20"+ trout in a catchand release area Saturday. My 5 wt Heddon was a bit too much for themidge pupa they wanted. Those old trout in the C&R are difficult tofool. I'll need a light line that can handle a 15 foot leader to 8X. Whadda ya think? Rick from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 24 23:34:26 1998 Subject: Re: Tapers from A.J. - how'd I miss it? The list server has been doing strange things lately. Several of my posts have been lost. At least I haven'tseen them. Maybe some get them and some don't. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Mar 25 00:50:50 1998 Wed, 25 Mar 1998 14:50:40 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Tapers from A.J. - how'd I miss it? On Wed, 25 Mar 1998, SalarFly wrote: The list server has been doing strange things lately. Several of my posts have been lost. At least I haven'tseen them. Maybe some get them and some don't. Darryl Hayashida I'd agree that seems to be the case lately. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Mar 25 07:33:53 1998 Subject: Glace Cotton 12/4 To all;John Bradford phoned last night to say he grossly underestimatedshippingcostson the cones of 12/4 glace cotton.All future orders will need to add $4 forshipping.Current orders will honor the original offer of $20 including shipping.George from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Wed Mar 25 10:08:21 1998 +0100 (MET) Subject: Re: web Jerry Foster wrote: Added Stefan Grau's page to the makers list.Hi Ted. Jerry Thank you very much! Cheese&Chocolate Rods from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Wed Mar 25 11:02:50 1998 25 Mar 98 12:08:54 -0500 0500 25 Mar 98 12:08:38 -0500 Subject: is there a problem with the server?? boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD57E6.BD875720" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD57E6.BD875720 I have not received anything for the last 2 days.John McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD57E6.BD875720 I have not received anything forthe = days.John McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01BD57E6.BD875720-- from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Wed Mar 25 11:35:57 1998 25 Mar 98 12:41:51 -0500 0500 25 Mar 98 12:41:16 -0500 Subject: Thanks mike boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0024_01BD57EB.4DA79000" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BD57EB.4DA79000 Thanks Mike for your help I realy missed the listJohn McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BD57EB.4DA79000 Thanks Mike for your help I realy= listJohn McKinnonjmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca ------=_NextPart_000_0024_01BD57EB.4DA79000-- from michael@wupsych.wustl.edu Wed Mar 25 13:22:25 1998 CST Subject: List Stuff Hello Folks... Just wanted to let everyone know that I will be away fromemail for a few days. If anyone has list problems I willattend to them as soon as I return. Alas, no fishing though... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Wed Mar 25 14:24:06 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re:Tapers --simple boundary Thanks for posting all the wonderful tapers. What a gold mine (and a greatwayto start off the week). I am looking for a taper for a new rod. Somethingin a6' 3" or a 6' 6" that will present a dry fly with elegance. Do you haveanything in your book that might work? Thanks Mick Coymcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: TapersAuthor: Hi All,I brought my taper books to work today, if you have a request for ataper I will be happy to honor it today.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com --simple boundary (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Mon, 23 Mar 98 13:17:41 GMT intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id NAA07200 for 0000 Subject: Tapers --simple boundary-- from thramer@presys.com Wed Mar 25 14:32:48 1998 0000 Subject: Tapers re: Mick Coy has never been equaled IMHO.A.J.Thramer from bburn@imt.net Wed Mar 25 14:34:17 1998 cu.imt.net(8.8.5/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA12589 for ;Wed, 25 Mar Subject: truncated ferrules Gentlemen, Up to now I've built two piece rods. I am now working on two rods that areof three piece construction. A 4 wt. and a 6 wt. both are 8 1/2' in length.I am contemplating the use of truncated ferrules but am not sure whentheyshould be used. Do I put truncated ferrules on the top and standard lengthon the bottom? Or do I put truncated ferrules on the 4 wt. and standardlength on the 6 wt. which will see tougher conditions? I guess thequestionI'm asking is there a standard rule of thumb concerning the use oftruncatedferrules? I may also add that my primary concern is function anddurability.Weight and aesthetics are second. Any words of wisdom and advise will beappreciated. Thaks Bill Blackburn from thramer@presys.com Wed Mar 25 14:51:42 1998 0000 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules William Blackburn wrote: Gentlemen, Up to now I've built two piece rods. I am now working on two rods thatareof three piece construction. A 4 wt. and a 6 wt. both are 8 1/2' in length.I am contemplating the use of truncated ferrules but am not sure whentheyshould be used. Do I put truncated ferrules on the top and standard lengthon the bottom? Or do I put truncated ferrules on the 4 wt. and standardlength on the 6 wt. which will see tougher conditions? I guess thequestionI'm asking is there a standard rule of thumb concerning the use oftruncatedferrules? I may also add that my primary concern is function anddurability.Weight and aesthetics are second. Any words of wisdom and advise willbeappreciated. Thaks Bill BlackburnHi Bill,Use the truncated ferrules on three pc rods. Or maybe not. They aremuch more prone to problems than std length ferrules. To get them tostay on PIN THEM. A.J.Thramer from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Wed Mar 25 14:58:17 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re:Tapers re: Mick Coy --simple boundary I have heard that the Young Midge is a good one. It is settled. Off to theworkbench I go. ThanksMick____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Tapers re: Mick CoyAuthor: has never been equaled IMHO.A.J.Thramer --simple boundary (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Wed, 25 Mar 98 12:44:46 GMT intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id MAA20813 for 0000 Subject: Tapers re: Mick Coy --simple boundary-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Mar 25 16:21:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: truncated ferrules A.J.No offense but you recommend pinning ferrules. Doesn't this have apotentialto weaken an already weak area by doing this?Bret from jfoster@gte.net Wed Mar 25 17:31:58 1998 Subject: [Fwd: My subscription to rodcrafters.] BB6134D6558AF9C49C45BA28" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- BB6134D6558AF9C49C45BA28 Mike --------------BB6134D6558AF9C49C45BA28 (Intermail v3.1 117 242) with ESMTP Subject: My subscription to rodcrafters. Sir,May I ask is the listserver malfunctioning? because I used to getregular E- mail for the subscription, and I no longer recieve anypostings... could you please respond... Thanks a lot!Bob Parsons --------------BB6134D6558AF9C49C45BA28-- from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Mar 25 18:19:25 1998 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules In theory, I agree. But I have no experience with truncated ferrules andwould be anxious to hear about AJ's. It seems to me that with modernadhesives, even with the smaller amount of area on truncated ferrrules,pinning is extraneous at best and structurally deficient at worst. AJ? --Rich from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Mar 25 18:39:29 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Oversize sections List, I just finished sanding the string and glue off of allthree sections of the rod I'm working on, and have run intoa dilemma: The sections consistently measure out .009" -.011" oversize. Each of the individual strips was carefullymeasured before gluing and binding. Each strip was within.002 of the desired measurements, with .001 intentionallyallowed for the final removal of enamel after gluing. Canit be that the glued strips were not bound tightly enough,and the increase in size is due to glue lines? Or, we'vehad some awfully humid weather here in Louisiana, could thecane have grown by .011 due to moisture re-entry?A second question presents itself. Do I finish therod, or scrap it? Any insight will be appreciated. I don't want this tohappen again. Thanks, Harry Boyd from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Mar 25 18:44:21 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules RMargiotta wrote:snip from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Mar 25 19:10:14 1998 Subject: Re: Oversize sections In a message dated 3/25/98 4:41:01 PM Pacific Standard Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: A second question presents itself. Do I finish therod, or scrap it? Any insight will be appreciated. I don't want this tohappen again. Hard to say what caused the oversize, but go ahead and finishit. So you have a rod for the next one or two line sizes larger,so what? Not to worry. Alternatively, you can take off quite abit of the outside without compromising the power fibers.Six of one, half dozen of the other. In any case, finish it. It willturn out fine. Darryl Hayashida from drinkr@voicenet.com Wed Mar 25 19:23:17 1998 Subject: Cork Suppliers advice boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004B_01BD582A.F860B500" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BD582A.F860B500 I located a cork ring supplier near my home. ( Expanko Cork in West =Chester,Pennsylvania ) Iwas wondering if anyone on the list has dealt =with them before. Price was .69 per cork ring flower quality. Minimum =order of 100 plus $40. set up charge. Has anyone dealt with them =before. Also has anyone come across some excellent quality cork from =another supply source available in lots of 100 pieces.Thanks in advance, = ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BD582A.F860B500 I located a cork ring supplier near= Expanko Cork in West Chester,Pennsylvania ) Iwas wondering if anyone on= ------=_NextPart_000_004B_01BD582A.F860B500-- from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Mar 25 19:23:42 1998 Subject: Re:Tapers re: Mick Coy MickWhy the attachment? At 12:43 PM 3/25/98 GMT, you wrote:I have heard that the Young Midge is a good one. It is settled. Off to theworkbench I go. ThanksMick____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Tapers re: Mick CoyAuthor: Date: 3/25/98 12:37 PM has never been equaled IMHO.A.J.Thramer Attachment Converted: "C:\PIPEPLUS\DOWNLOAD\RFC8221.TXT" from DrBamboo@aol.com Wed Mar 25 19:45:25 1998 Subject: Re: Cork Suppliers advice Dave;Price sounds nice,but have to wonder about quality.I get 5 star from C&Dcork bythe 1000 for more money.If intersted in 100 rings e-mail me direct forparticulars.George from thramer@presys.com Wed Mar 25 20:24:32 1998 0000Received: from ppp3.eug1.presys.com (HELO allen) (207.48.109.147) Subject: Truncated Ferrules,Pinning&Dogma The stresses in a truncated ferrule do not cause a problem , it is themounting and dismounting. A commercial rod has to endure an almostendless litany of travails. Not every owner has the knowlege these daysto know how to take care of the rod. The most common problem seems tobea tight ferrule fit that results in the angler not joining the sectionscompletely which leads to the stresses in the ferrule to skyrocket, theferrule then slips during dismounting.The pin does not seem to affect the strenghth of the ferrule enough tolead to ferrule or cane failure. It does ensure that the ferrule won'tcome off till you want it to. IE: It may weaken the ferrule area butthat is not where rods fail, they fail at the junction of the ferruleto bamboo. I have had 1/2 dozen failures of the ferrule where it slipped out ofabout 300 rods, each failure was taken care of promptly but is a sinkingfeeling I can do without. You can reach your own conclusions about rodbuilding, but you have to be willing to question the currentconventional wisdom. Experiment, question, and have fun. 50 years ago wewould have been having this discussion if you DIDN'T pin your ferrules.A.J.Thramer from FLYROD777@aol.com Wed Mar 25 20:57:00 1998 Subject: HELP Need help. I am getting my regular "E" mail but I am not getting the mail from the postings. I know my "E" mail got on the board about my trip toEngland because I got some direct "E" mail back to me. I miss reading this.Can any buddy help? My "E" mail address is FLYROD777@aol.com. Oh buy the way I tried to join again, just in case I may have been booted ofthe system by accident, it told me I was a member. Thanks Mark Hallowell from WayneCatt@aol.com Wed Mar 25 21:06:07 1998 Subject: Truncated Ferrules Harry -Yes, we are alive and well here in Casnovia - just getting some thingsdone - 90 days and counting. Structurally truncated ferrules are strongenoughto go the distance. Personally I use them on all 3 piece rods and rods lessthan 7' 6" #4. The rod that I use day to day has a #12 that has been abusedand still survives. I read AJ's post concerning them coming off easier -thereis less glue surface - but usually a loose ferrule is an indicator of anotherproblem. Awhile back there was a thread on loose ferrules and somecorrections. from what I've seen usually a loose ferrule is caused from agluestarved joint - usually because the rod section is laid flat when the glueiscuring. This can easily be prevented by standing the section upright. Withthesection upright any glue sag will settle to fill the gap between bambooandnickle silver yielding a solid bond. Secondly glue failures can be caused bycontaminates left in the ferrule from manufacturing - flux or debris. Myproblem has been that once on I destroy them if I need to take them off.On a second note, I read your post of the oversized rod. If you can get itto within .003 - .004 on the tip and .005 - .006 on the butt it should castwithin the line weight that it is intended to. The rod should obviously befinished - take the 'undertaker approach' - they bury their mistakes -rodmakers just fish theirs. Beyond that the question is why the oversizing.Isuspect that the strips may have been over before gluing. I am confidentthatyou have biffed the tip of your depth gauge and then didn't follow closeenough with the dial caliper to catch it. When the point of the depth gaugeisbad it will adjust the forms 'fat'. This is where a setting fixture can savethe day - I don't have one - somehow I always get there after they are allsold and at $3 per point I find myself just changing points. I've have to putthat on my 'to do' list.Three piece rods are very much in demand these days - for severalreasons.The airlines are getting very cranky about the length of carry on baggage -a7' 6" 3 piece rod just makes the maximun length. Some say that they castbetter. Others just like the appeal. Looking back it has been several yearssince I have made a 2 piece rod - even the 6'3" is a cute bundle in a 3 piece- my daughter's purple rod is a 3 piece. And that brings up the latest. Terry O' Connor (aka J. Austin Forbes)just send Lyndi a couple of his new fly reel designs- in purple. Now with alittle help from a pantone marker there will be a purple line to fish withaswell. Bruce Richards made one for his wife, Sue, a couple of years ago andword has it that to stay the course at home he can't make any more. cut bamboo strips (ie the Leonard beveler) - a mill uses a cutting wheel.AlBellinger's machine would then be considered a mill. Wayne from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Mar 25 21:29:42 1998 Subject: Re: HELP Mark, Sure wish I could help. Mike (the list guy) just had a posting saying heknew about it but would be out of town for a couple days, I'd try himanyway, if you haven't. I was in list limbo for about three days, did thestop, start, etc. and it seemed to work for me. Good luck hope someone isof more help than me! Gary At 09:56 PM 3/25/98 EST, you wrote:Need help. I am getting my regular "E" mail but I am not getting the mail from the postings. I know my "E" mail got on the board about my trip toEngland because I got some direct "E" mail back to me. I miss readingthis.Can any buddy help? My "E" mail address is FLYROD777@aol.com. Oh buy the way I tried to join again, just in case I may have been bootedofthe system by accident, it told me I was a member. Thanks Mark Hallowell from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Mar 25 21:32:29 1998 Sorry I sent that to the wrong address, Please ignore.Gary from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Mar 25 21:36:08 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 25Mar 1998 22:37:25 -0400 Subject: Re: Oversize sections Definitely finish the rod! You will end up with a line size or two over and that's it. If the dimensions are consistently oversized the action won't be affected. I have had this problem lately with the strips being .002 over consistently...what can you do? I sand the blank considerably because I like the look of the power fibers. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Mar 25 22:27:20 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 25Mar 1998 23:28:40 -0400 Subject: Binding Thread A little bit of useless info for everyone out there in computer land. People always ask me how much thread I use to bind a rod so I measured after I unwrapped a section today... 52" section (4' but oversized for planing) 1/8" wraps... 54' of 16/4 thread, 18 yards. So...a 4800 yard spool of binding thread is more than enough ... roughly 266 8' rods! (Too much time on my hands) Time to get back to the Monetary Theory and Policy Paper! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Mar 25 22:48:58 1998 Subject: Re: truncated ferrules Dear Rich I get the impression that not everybody understands how epoxy works. Isympathize with the compulsion to make tightly fitted joints but, with acaneto ferrule joint, I don't see how it can be beneficial. Most of the epoxiesflex well and the mating surfaces need some tooth and the resin alwaysworksbetter with a little body. The ferrules I make in-shop don't need it but the store-bought specimensgetthat area roughed up good. I don't make these things for a living, but I definitely don't want to seethem again, except at the fishin' hole. Then of course there's always the chance that I've missed the point herecompletely... Davy from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Wed Mar 25 23:50:15 1998 (MET) Subject: Coloring blanks Help wanted! I heard about coloring a blank with ammoniak steam.How that works?What solution i need?It works also with a finished, glued blank?It works alo with brushing the "solution" on the blank, thentempering it in an oven?Different ways? Thans for all answers Stefan-swiss chees & chocolate rodmakerhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Mar 26 00:20:17 1998 Subject: Re: Casting 3pc vs 2pc Colleagues,Wayne mentioned in a post that some people think that a three piece rodcastsbetter than a deuce. Given that if one uses the same stress curve, there ismore weight involved with the extra ferrule and consequently morebamboo tocompensate for it. All this always means larger dimensions in the butt andtherefore more weight. this may not be a big deal in shorter rods, but I'vealways thought that this is why the Paul Young rods, especially the bigparaswere/are 2pc.The portability and classic look of the three piece format cannot bedenied,but does anybody agree with me that here, like most things in life, thereis acompromise?Please fire away! Rob Hoffhines from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 26 01:12:40 1998 Subject: oversize sections Harry;What kind of glue do you use? I found that with urac and the powdercatalyst that comes with it my sections were consistantly fat by about.01.They still cast the intended line o.k., but I still wanted betteraccuracy.I found that (with the help of Dr. Bamboo and John Zimny)usingammonium chloride mixed with water for the catalyst works much better.Thewater helps to thin the resin and gives you a little more time to bind andstraiten before its so sticky you can't deal with it any more. I have foundthat my sections are still a bit bigger than I want, but its down to about.005. My urac got too old, so I bought some epon instead,hopefully I canget the @#$%$^& things strait before the glue dries and I have to use theheat gun to do it. Ammonium chloride is available from the Science Fair inNewark, Del. 302-453-1817. I had to buy 500 grams for about $40.00. If Igoback to urac, this will be enough to do about 1000 rods, so if you want totry it without buying a large quantity, let me know and we'll worksomething out.Hope this helps.John Channer from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Thu Mar 26 07:21:15 1998 emf h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:21:00+0100 1998 14:19:36+0100 Subject: knicke =_NextPart_000_01BD58C2.34A4B0B0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD58C2.34A4B0B0 ----------Von: gespliesst@bluewin.chGesendet: Donnerstag, 26. M=E4rz 1998 15:45An: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduBetreff: Coloring blanks Hallo Stefan, wie geht es dir mit deinen gef=E4rbten blanks.hast du bereits farbfotos gemacht ? ich hatte auch keine fotos von meinen ruten und habe mir welche machen =m=FCssen.es ist auch gar nicht so einfach fotos von einer angel zu machen.vor allem wenn man so ein antifotograph ist wie ich. aber einige sind ganz brauchbar geworden.ich schicke dir einige n=E4chste woche ich habe diese woche nur etwas zu=wenig zeit. ich habe eine frage?wenn du deine spleise verleimst wie richtest du sie gerade?ich habe noch keine richtig gute methode gefunden.am besten ist es wenn ich die blanks auch einer glatte unterlage drehe.so wie es kinder mit teig machen um eine nudel zu bekommen (weist du =wie ich meine?)damit bekomme ich ganz gute ergebnisse.am anfang habe ich gewichte an die blanks geh=E4ngt war aber nicht =zufrieden.man kann gar nicht soviel gewicht hinh=E4ngen um eine leichten knick =auszugleichen. wie gerade sind deine blanks.haben deine keinen knick(auch keinen =leichten ?)vielleicht h=E4nge ich da einem ideal an das ich nicht ereichen kann.mit den ringen kann ich die ungeraden stellen meist ausgleichen.die probleme tretten auch nur im spitzenteil auf.was hat dann vorang die weichere seite oder der ausgleich des knickes. leibe gr=FCsse alex ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD58C2.34A4B0B0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD58C2.34A4B0B0-- from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Thu Mar 26 07:52:39 1998 emf h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:51:57+0100 14:50:04+0100 Subject: knick (straight sections) =_NextPart_000_01BD58C6.75DE8C50" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD58C6.75DE8C50 Hi folks, sorry but I have posted the wrong version to the wrong address.Sometimes I am a little bit confused with all the new technologyaroundme I always have the problem that my finished section are not perfectlystaight.I spend a lot of time to straighten them but they never get a straightsection.Is it possible to get a perffectly straight section? What should I try out? I build knotless rods.When I glue the pieces together to a splice they have the tendency to gospiral.Sometimes more and sometimes less.I cant find out where the problem is. I have already try a lot.My first idea was that the splicing block was wrong. But since I got a newmetall splicing block thesame problem still occurs.I began to make very careful rough planing on the pieces before I put theminthe splicingblock. It's a lot of work and the result is still the same.It's sometimes a bit frustrating.Especially when I have to spend a lot oftimeto straighten thesplices before planing. Do other knotless builders have the same problem??How do they deal with that problem?? Thanks a lot ALEX ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD58C6.75DE8C50 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD58C6.75DE8C50-- from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Thu Mar 26 09:45:16 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu,26 Mar 1998 09:46:20 CST Subject: Re: oversize sections I found that sections which got fat after gluing would slim down after hanging for a month in a cabinet with a light bulb inside. I'm inclined to think that moisture in the glue seeped into the bamboo and caused my problem because I stored my strips in the drying cabinet over the weeks it took me to plane them. Wayne's "dull point" point is also a good one. Another good cure for point problems would be to buy a standard 60 degree groove from George Mauer. If you set your dial indicator to a such standard, rather than to zero, you are setting the depth gauge with the shoulder of the point rather than its tip. Because you measure the planing form with the shoulder also, the condition of the tip of your depth gauge will not matter. You can double-check the standard groove by fitting a piece of bamboo to it and measuring that with your dial caliper. The dial caliper can be checked by measuring a few different sizes of music wire of known diameters. After you stay up late standardizing your instruments, there will be no time left for planing, and you will be too tired in the morning to fish. - Grayson from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Thu Mar 26 10:03:11 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re[2]:Tapers re: Mick Coy --simple boundary Good question on the attachment. We use a local e mail program calledCC- Mail. It may just drag around excess baggage. ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Re:Tapers re: Mick CoyAuthor: MickWhy the attachment? At 12:43 PM 3/25/98 GMT, you wrote:I have heard that the Young Midge is a good one. It is settled. Off to theworkbench I go. ThanksMick____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Tapers re: Mick CoyAuthor: Date: 3/25/98 12:37 PM has never been equaled IMHO.A.J.Thramer Attachment Converted: "C:\PIPEPLUS\DOWNLOAD\RFC8221.TXT" --simple boundary (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Wed, 25 Mar 98 17:30:21 GMT intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id RAA22464 for Subject: Re:Tapers re: Mick Coy --simple boundary-- from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Mar 26 10:10:47 1998 Subject: Fwd: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences boundary="part0_890928611_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_890928611_boundary I don't think this ever made it on the list. Please excuse me if you have seen it before. Darryl Hayashida Thinking back to our Node vs. Nodeless debate, most ofthe nodeless guys complained about "pesky nodes" andthe lifts and chips they produce. I couldn't see the problemthey were having. Sure I got a few lifts, but they were aminor problem. Surely less of a problem than doing 18to 36 or more scarfs. After experimenting with the bevel angle last Saturday,I started wondering. Perhaps the people having so muchtrouble with lifts are sharpening their plane blades at25 or less degrees. I just happened to start sharpeningat 30 degrees from the start by accident. The directionssaid to sharpen at 25 or 30 degrees, and I chose 30 forno good reason at all. 25 degrees did produce lifts at just about every node during my testing, where 30 degreesproduced none. To go further. About a month ago I wrote in about usinga Stanley Quick-Grip clamp to hold my splines in the form.Others wrote in that holding the splines weren't a problem.Again perhaps they are sharpening at 25 degrees, whilemy irons are at 30 degrees. The steeper angles greatlyincrease the effort it takes to cut a shaving, and having topush harder on the plane will tend to shift the spline in theform. Another difference someone already wrote in about. He saidhe couldn't plane six strips without resharpening, and foundthat the iron stayed sharp longer when sharpened at a steeper angle. What do you think? Something as simple as plane ironbevel account for some of our differences in technique? Darryl Hayashida --part0_890928611_boundary Subject: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences Organization: AOL (http://www.aol.com) Thinking back to our Node vs. Nodeless debate, most ofthe nodeless guys complained about "pesky nodes" andthe lifts and chips they produce. I couldn't see the problemthey were having. Sure I got a few lifts, but they were aminor problem. Surely less of a problem than doing 18to 36 or more scarfs. After experimenting with the bevel angle last Saturday,I started wondering. Perhaps the people having so muchtrouble with lifts are sharpening their plane blades at25 or less degrees. I just happened to start sharpeningat 30 degrees from the start by accident. The directionssaid to sharpen at 25 or 30 degrees, and I chose 30 forno good reason at all. 25 degrees did produce lifts at just about every node during my testing, where 30 degreesproduced none. To go further. About a month ago I wrote in about usinga Stanley Quick-Grip clamp to hold my splines in the form.Others wrote in that holding the splines weren't a problem.Again perhaps they are sharpening at 25 degrees, whilemy irons are at 30 degrees. The steeper angles greatlyincrease the effort it takes to cut a shaving, and having topush harder on the plane will tend to shift the spline in theform. Another difference someone already wrote in about. He saidhe couldn't plane six strips without resharpening, and foundthat the iron stayed sharp longer when sharpened at a steeper angle. What do you think? Something as simple as plane ironbevel account for some of our differences in technique? Darryl Hayashida --part0_890928611_boundary-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Mar 26 10:20:13 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: oversize sections John, I'm using epoxy (Nyatex) and after reading some of the responses Ireally doubt that the glue caused my oversized sections. Currently I thinkthat moisture re-entry and dinged 60 degree points on my depth gauge arethepossible culprits. I look forward to any other thoughts.Thanks for your interest, though. I can see where that might be aproblem with urac. One of the neat things about this list is thewillingnessof those with much experience to help those of us with little!Harry john channer wrote:big snips from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Thu Mar 26 10:52:01 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re:Tapers --simple boundary A.J.I have a friend that has one of your 7wt. Gx (nice rod). I understand youPx/Dxdesignation, what is the Gx series? ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: TapersAuthor: Hi All,I brought my taper books to work today, if you have a request for ataper I will be happy to honor it today.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com --simple boundary (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Mon, 23 Mar 98 13:17:41 GMT intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id NAA07200 for 0000 Subject: Tapers --simple boundary-- from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Mar 26 12:20:57 1998 (MET) Subject: Re: knicke MAA30622 Hallo Alex! Danke fèr Dein mail von heute. Auch ich bin etwas im Zeitdruck, desshalbfasse ich mich so kurz wie måglich: 1. Fotos sende ich Dir mit meinem versprochenen Katalog baldmåglichs( inca. 10 Tagen) - muss auch noch welche fèr David Popp und eineAngelzeitschrift machen, geht dann alles in Einem.Ich schreibe hie und da Reportagen fèrs "Fliegenfischen" und fèrsSchweizer "Petri-Heil", n€chstens soll etwas èber "Gespliesste"erscheinen. 2. Ich k€mpfe beim Richten des Blanks mit genau den gleichen Problemenwie Du ( & wohl die Meisten Rutenbauer).Auch ich habe es frèher mit Gewichten probiert, doch da wir im 3.Stockwohnen, hatte meine Freundin berechtigte Zweifel, ob meine Ruten nichtbald beim Nachbarn im Untergeschoss landen wèrden - heisst jaschliesslich Flieg(en)ruten, oder? Quatsch, Hobel ( €h Spass) beiseite: Meist "walle" auch ich meine Blankteile, wie Du treffend beschreibst wieeinen Teig, und zwar sofort nach dem Verleimen - mein Klebstoff wirktbereits nach 20 Minuten!Ja, auch ich beobachte Knicke meist im Spitzenteil, liegt wohl ander "Sache"?! Vielleicht liegts am "Binder"?Nach 2 Tagen Trockenzeit richte ich die Knicke mittels einemOptiker-Heissluft-Ger€t - manchmal gehts besser oder schlechter.Je nach Knick habe ich den Bl€nk auf einem planen Tisch auch schon aufder Gegenseite des Knicks mit schweren Bleiplatten beschwert, fèr dieDauer von ca. 5. Tagen - auch hier, manchmal o.k. oder nicht.Ich habe mir sagen lassen, dass Richten das Schwerste am Rutenbau ist(wir wissens ja), und dass keine Rute exakt stimmt!!!!!Auch nicht die von grossen Rutenbauern!!!!!!Das Richten ist meist eine auf mehrere Tage verteilte Arbeit, die Augend. Menschen "irren" sehr schnell, vorallem wenn Sie eine Gerade messensollen ( solltest Du als Mediziner wissen).Sogenanntes "kaschieren" mittel Ringen etc, benutzen nicht nur wirBeide!Was ist denn die weiche/harte Seite an einem Blank? Ich glaube diesersogenannte "Sprung" ( Overlap) spielt bei gerollten Kohlenfaserblankseine gråssere Rolle, als im Bambus. îbrigens war mein bester, d.h.geradester Blank meine erste Gespliesste aus Gartenbambus(!!!!).Vor drei Jahren besuchte ich einen CH-Rutenbauer ( nicht mehr aktiv),keiner seiner sonst wirklich herrlichen Ruten war echt gerade! Verkauftund gefischt hat er trotzdem.Meinen Kunden sage ich immer zum Voraus, dass Tonkin halt einNaturmaterial ist und ausschliesslich von hand bearbeitet wird, leichteBiegungen sind normal - haben die Meisten akzeptiert. Gleiches Argumentgilt ja auch fèrs Leder bei Sofas etc. Mit meinen Argumenten will ich mich nicht entschuldigen oder dasProblemwegreden, jeder Rutenbauer such nach Verbesserungen, so auch ich.Bin gespannt was der Listserve auf dein Problem antwortet - falls DuMails direkt an Deine Adresse erh€ltst, mache doch ein "Forward" anmich. Danke u. Grèsschen Stefan/ Swiss Cheese & Chocolate Rods PS: Frage, wie bindest Du beim Verkleben den Blank u. welchen Leimbenutzt Du? from thramer@presys.com Thu Mar 26 13:42:30 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Tapers mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us wrote: A.J.I have a friend that has one of your 7wt. Gx (nice rod). I understand youPx/Dxdesignation, what is the Gx series? ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: TapersAuthor: Date: 3/23/98 1:04 PM Hi All,I brought my taper books to work today, if you have a request for ataper I will be happy to honor it today.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com --------------------------------------------------------------- Name: RFC822.TXTPart 1.2 Type: Plain Text (text/plain)Encoding: 7bitThe Gx taper is a variation of the Px taper, a stiffer butt.A.J.Thramer from anglport@con2.com Thu Mar 26 13:56:32 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA25723 for Subject: Re: Truncated Ferrules At 09:59 PM 3/25/98 EST, you wrote:Harry -Yes, we are alive and well here in Casnovia - just getting some thingsdone - 90 days and counting. Structurally truncated ferrules are strongenoughto go the distance. This is where a setting fixture can savethe day - I don't have one - somehow I always get there after they are allsold and at $3 per point I find myself just changing points. I've have toputthat on my 'to do' list. Wayne Wayne,OK, I'll bite, what's a "setting fixture"? I may not know what all themetalworking devices ARE, but I've usually HEARD of them!I would havethought that a setting fixture was a pre-planed piece of bamboo. Sayingyou're going to BUY one reminds me of the time a teacher at my school wasasked by the principal if he thought of using a "mnemonic device" to teachthe planets' order in the universe (Mary's Violet Eyes...) and he replied"There weren't any in the supply room when I looked". Help!Art from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Thu Mar 26 14:10:25 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 26 Mar 1998 15:09:50 -0500 Subject: Furling question (Hey you guys in the UK) Please excuse the non-rodbuilding question, but it is closely related. I have read in the Micropatterns book by Darrel Martin about ahand-crancked widing machine that he called both a winder and a furlingengine. He claims that this type of thing is available in London FFshops, etc. I am very interested in finding a good quality two or threehook winder. If anyone know where I might locate one, or even ship meone if wire them the money. Thanks. Please respond off list. from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Mar 26 14:17:43 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id OAA14449 for Subject: Re: Why should I get a Bamboo Flyrod? SalarFly wrote: For me it's the tapers, the fine tuningof the taper. How do you answer this question? Darryl HayashidaI usually have them cast a few of my wands and tell me why they shouldget one. This is throwing their question back to them but with newsensory information to draw on. The persons whom I've done this way findthat they either love bamboo or prefer plastic. I am of the belief thatfly fishers give information that allows one to decide for oneself. Howelse does one's expertise expand? Bryant C. from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 26 14:23:16 1998 Subject: oversize sections Harry;Now you've got me wondering, I'm going right out to the shop after lunchand check my point, maybe its the problem and not the glue, or maybe both.John Channer from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Mar 26 14:32:32 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id OAA16499 for Subject: Re: Casting 3pc vs 2pc Nodewrrior wrote: Wayne mentioned in a post that somepeoplethinkthat a three piece rod casts better than a deuce. This always means largerdimensions in the butt. I've always thought that this is why the Paul Youngrodswere/are 2pc. Rob Hoffhines I have built and fish several different constructions of the same taper. Ihaveeight, five weight rods all are 9' 6" and of each type ofconstruction,(standardspline, nodeless spline, hollowed spline, hollowed- graphite reinforcedspline),with one 2 piece and one three piece. thiese rods let me show all theeffects ofthe different types of construction. Bryant C. from jfoster@gte.net Thu Mar 26 16:29:57 1998 Subject: mail problems Hi all on more time for Mike,Biondo that is..when you have mail problems try to subscribe again, if you get a messagethat says you are already subscribed, then try this; send this messageto this address. listproc@mail.wustl.edu SET RODMAKERS MAIL ACK if you don't start getting mail, send your problem directly to mike offline or post it on the listserver and mike will see it.. if you send itto me i just forward it to mike.. he has to fix the problem, if there isone, regards jerry PS: Chris you sneaky devil..i still can't get you qt to downloadwithout stalling out. from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Mar 26 17:16:53 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 26 Mar 98 18:16:08 EST Subject: Re: Furling question (Hey you guys in the UK) John, Did you see the article in FF or FRR on this topic. I think in thelast yr. B.At 03:09 PM 3/26/98 -0500, you wrote:Please excuse the non-rodbuilding question, but it is closely related. I have read in the Micropatterns book by Darrel Martin about ahand-crancked widing machine that he called both a winder and a furlingengine. He claims that this type of thing is available in London FFshops, etc. I am very interested in finding a good quality two or threehook winder. If anyone know where I might locate one, or even ship meone if wire them the money. Thanks. Please respond off list. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Mar 26 18:08:55 1998 Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:08:36 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: knick (straight sections) On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Christoph wrote:Hi folks,I always have the problem that my finished section are not perfectlystaight.I spend a lot of time to straighten them but they never get a straightsection.Is it possible to get a perffectly straight section? What should I tryout?I build knotless rods.When I glue the pieces together to a splice they have the tendency to gospiral.Sometimes more and sometimes less.I cant find out where the problem is. I have already try a lot.My first idea was that the splicing block was wrong. But since I got anewmetall splicing block thesame problem still occurs.I began to make very careful rough planing on the pieces before I putthem inthe splicingblock. It's a lot of work and the result is still the same.It's sometimes a bit frustrating.Especially when I have to spend a lot oftime to straighten thesplices before planing.Do other knotless builders have the same problem??How do they deal with that problem??Thanks a lot ALEX Can't say I'm having that problem. The only time I've had lots of twists and kinks was one very hot day using UF and I had problems with the binder. The glue went critical too soon to allow me to straighten before drying.I don't know if your binder is working properly, or the glue you use but I'd suggest trying Shell Epon as it cures so slowly and bind by hand if the binder is giving you grief.I have to admit I've only used Epon on one tip section but I bound it, straightened it and hung it to cure then only had to *slightly* straighten the very tip about 2" from the end. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Mar 26 18:16:19 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 26Mar 1998 19:17:39 -0400 Subject: Re: Truncated Ferrules I believe Wayne is talking about the little calibration blocks I sell. They are a piece of cold rolled bar stock which is flattened and drilled/chamfered (sp) to a precision outside diameter. This way, the point never touches bottom and has a chance to deflect/deteriorate. The depth is always less than the thickness. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Mar 26 18:17:50 1998 Fri, 27 Mar 1998 08:17:03 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Fwd: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, SalarFly wrote: Darryl Hayashida Thinking back to our Node vs. Nodeless debate, most ofthe nodeless guys complained about "pesky nodes" andthe lifts and chips they produce. I couldn't see the problemthey were having. Sure I got a few lifts, but they were aminor problem. Surely less of a problem than doing 18to 36 or more scarfs. After experimenting with the bevel angle last Saturday,I started wondering. Perhaps the people having so muchtrouble with lifts are sharpening their plane blades at25 or less degrees. I just happened to start sharpeningat 30 degrees from the start by accident. The directionssaid to sharpen at 25 or 30 degrees, and I chose 30 forno good reason at all. 25 degrees did produce lifts at just about every node during my testing, where 30 degreesproduced none. To go further. About a month ago I wrote in about usinga Stanley Quick-Grip clamp to hold my splines in the form.Others wrote in that holding the splines weren't a problem.Again perhaps they are sharpening at 25 degrees, whilemy irons are at 30 degrees. The steeper angles greatlyincrease the effort it takes to cut a shaving, and having topush harder on the plane will tend to shift the spline in theform. Another difference someone already wrote in about. He saidhe couldn't plane six strips without resharpening, and foundthat the iron stayed sharp longer when sharpened at a steeper angle. What do you think? Something as simple as plane ironbevel account for some of our differences in technique? Darryl Hayashida It likely you are correct. I'm using both a 60-1/2 & 9-/12 (not because the book says to, it's just developed that way). The angle of the iron is the same as original because I don't use a device to sharpen so I can't say exactly what the angle is.Hock Irons on both planes. The 60-1/2 cuts easier but does require sharpening more often than the 9-1/2.I seem to be able to continue planing longer between shapening with the 9-1/2. Presumably increasing the angle further will improve the edge life but you may need multi grips to hold the spline in place ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from fiveside@net-gate.com Thu Mar 26 18:18:57 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA07439 for Subject: Disconnect To the list,Looks like I've been disconnected since 3/21. If I missed anythingimportant please send again. Been struggling with that quad and notpayingattention. Bill from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Mar 26 18:29:25 1998 byhead.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id TAA20760; Thu, 26 Mar199819:29:10 -0500 Subject: Re: knick (straight sections) Alex Three things to check: One - do you alternate strips with left and right hand splices. Two - All strips have good triangles.Three - The tension on binding cord is too great. All of the above can contribute to twists after gluing. Chris On Thu, 26 Mar 1998 14:50:00 +0100, Christoph wrote: Hi folks, sorry but I have posted the wrong version to the wrong address.Sometimes I am a little bit confused with all the new technologyaroundme I always have the problem that my finished section are not perfectlystaight.I spend a lot of time to straighten them but they never get a straightsection.Is it possible to get a perffectly straight section? What should I tryout? I build knotless rods.When I glue the pieces together to a splice they have the tendency to gospiral.Sometimes more and sometimes less.I cant find out where the problem is. I have already try a lot.My first idea was that the splicing block was wrong. But since I got anewmetall splicing block thesame problem still occurs.I began to make very careful rough planing on the pieces before I putthem inthe splicingblock. It's a lot of work and the result is still the same.It's sometimes a bit frustrating.Especially when I have to spend a lot oftimeto straighten thesplices before planing. Do other knotless builders have the same problem??How do they deal with that problem?? Thanks a lot ALEX from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 26 19:33:57 1998 Subject: Epon Bill&Chris;I just finished my first glue up with Epon, it went just fine, I think,but I was wondering if the normal consistency is something like coldhoney?If so, can or should it be thinned or warmed up or something? I have keptit in the closet since I got it about a month ago and it is probably about60 in there. Also if you guys or anyone else for that matter have any goodtips for straightening before the glue sets up I would be very interested.I got fairly close, but quit while I was ahead. Thanks alot.John Channer from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Mar 26 19:48:39 1998 Subject: Re: Casting 3pc vs 2pc I personally favor 3 piece rods for three reasons, none of which mayhold water. Enjoy the following soft-boiled theories.1/ More sections allow makers to use more complex tapers. Thinkaboutit. I have a 5 piece rod that has truly a bizarre taper, but it castsfine. And a dream rod that I cast recently was a 5 piece as well.2/ Portability. Not really a big concern for most people, but Ifavor9'-10' rods.3/ Durability. A few old-time makers held that the center ferruleofthe two piece placed the join at the point of greatest power and strain(please don't cite the contradictory evidence of the stress curves).F.E. Thomas (according to Keane) would only sell long 2 pc rods to"experienced anglers".Best regards,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Mar 26 20:01:06 1998 byhead.globalcom.net (8.6.12/8.6.10) with SMTP id VAA07697; Thu, 26 Mar199821:00:48 -0500 Subject: Re: Epon John Yes it does have a thicker consistency than you may be used toespeciallyif you have used Nyatex. But it should be warmed a bit to room temp - itwillspreadeasier. Use a cheap toothbrush to spread with.As far as straightening - see my last post - getting rods straightaftergluingis dependent upon doing a number of things right prior to that step. Somepeopleare just a day late and dollar short at this point trying to correct aftertheills) have beendone. But here is one tip for Epon users who may just have a difficult strip.If youroll and roll and the strip still wants to go its own way - wait an hour ortwountilthe epoxy starts to gel and then you may be able to finesse that stubbornbendout at this point. This is especially true in butt sections. Chris On Thu, 26 Mar 1998 17:18:51, john channer wrote: Bill&Chris;I just finished my first glue up with Epon, it went just fine, I think,but I was wondering if the normal consistency is something like coldhoney?If so, can or should it be thinned or warmed up or something? I have keptit in the closet since I got it about a month ago and it is probably about60 in there. Also if you guys or anyone else for that matter have any goodtips for straightening before the glue sets up I would be very interested.I got fairly close, but quit while I was ahead. Thanks alot.John Channer from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Thu Mar 26 20:07:30 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:06:56 -0500 Subject: Re: Furling question (Hey you guys in the UK) Robert Milardo wrote: John, Did you see the article in FF or FRR on this topic. I think in thelast yr. B.At 03:09 PM 3/26/98 -0500, you wrote:Please excuse the non-rodbuilding question, but it is closely related. I have read in the Micropatterns book by Darrel Martin about ahand-crancked widing machine that he called both a winder and afurlingengine. He claims that this type of thing is available in London FFshops, etc. I am very interested in finding a good quality two or threehook winder. If anyone know where I might locate one, or even ship meone if wire them the money. Thanks. Please respond off list. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill HallUniv. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128Yes I did, that's what got me started in this. The approach in themicropatterns book is supposed to be a little better, in that you have alittle more precise control. from d_price@global2000.net Thu Mar 26 20:07:50 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA26189 for; Thu, 26 Mar 1998 21:07:47 -0500 Subject: Re: Truncated Ferrules Art Port wrote: At 09:59 PM 3/25/98 EST, you wrote:Harry -Yes, we are alive and well here in Casnovia - just getting somethingsdone - 90 days and counting. Structurally truncated ferrules are strongenoughto go the distance.This is where a setting fixture can savethe day - I don't have one - somehow I always get there after they areallsold and at $3 per point I find myself just changing points. I've have toputthat on my 'to do' list. Wayne Wayne,OK, I'll bite, what's a "setting fixture"? I may not know what all themetalworking devices ARE, but I've usually HEARD of them!I would havethought that a setting fixture was a pre-planed piece of bamboo. Sayingyou're going to BUY one reminds me of the time a teacher at my schoolwasasked by the principal if he thought of using a "mnemonic device" toteachthe planets' order in the universe (Mary's Violet Eyes...) and he replied"There weren't any in the supply room when I looked".Help!Art Art I find that if I'm not shure where my dial indicator is set that ifI plane a set of pieces a little over size (set forms over size)andcheck buy binding them by hand and measuring the points and seeing howmuch they are out(I make them exact and the glue makes up for sandinglater)I can get the dail indicator set and leave it there!!!!.Dave Price from tripp@olywa.net Thu Mar 26 21:10:21 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA7015 for ;Thu, 26 Mar 1998 19:12:28 -0800 Subject: Binder Design - Which is best I'm ready to build a binder! I'm sure this has been discussed at length, so rather than take up thebandwidth, could someone direct me to which archive this thread may livein? Thanks in advance, Mark Tripp from channer@frontier.net Thu Mar 26 21:31:09 1998 Subject: epon Chris;Thanks for the tips. Next rod I'll put the glue out on the tying/wrappingdesk for a couple of days ahead and I'll defineately try going back overthe bends an hour or so after glueing.John Channer from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Mar 26 21:42:16 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Oversize sections Harry,I second Darryl's advice. If you have good depth of power fibers filing.009-.011" shouldn't hurt the finished rod . I know this is heresy for somebut "the book" was full of a lot of unnecessary b.s. IM-not so- HO.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Mar 26 21:42:52 1998 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much Don,I'm glad you unconfused the poor bugger as I've been confused since Istarted back in the 70's and enjoying every minute.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Mar 26 21:43:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Guide wraps Tom And Reed,When I do double wraps on the ferrules I find that I get a good lie of thethread if I follow the same thread spiral as the 1st layer-the 2nd layerseemsto nest into the 1st. It helps if the thread tension is less on the 2nd layer.I've found that wrapping against the 1st layer's spiral doesn't work for meunless I varnish the 1st layer and then wrap.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Mar 26 21:45:21 1998 Subject: Re: oversize sections To all,I've bought NH4 Cl powder from my local druggist in small quantitiesandit worked!Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Mar 26 21:45:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re:Why Buy Bamboo? Darryl,I'm interested in your finding duplication of action to be difficult. Ifind that 2 rods of the same taper and heat treatment to vary in action soperhaps even a .001" variance is enough to cause a difference. Perhaps thevariation in power fibers in the same culm can be the culprit. In any caseI've been trying to duplicate an 8', 3 pc. for a 7 that would false cast 110'of line and still give an accurate cast at 20'. And it was a straight taper,too. The other 6 rods have been good rods, just not like that one. I'm stilltrying.Regards,Hank from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Mar 26 21:46:25 1998 Subject: Re: Plane blade angles Don,Thanks for the info-I, too have had to reverse the planing stroke due toanode-Chris Bogart probably has several words of wisdom on the nodesubject.Anyway, I will steepen my plane angle a little and see if the chippinglessens.Regards,Hank. from EMiller257@aol.com Thu Mar 26 21:52:07 1998 Subject: Re: Truncated Ferrules Jon, I would like to know how to acquire one of those blocks. Do you haveanynow for sale? What is the best way to contact you for ordering (phone orE-Mail)? How much? Thanks....Ed Miller from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Thu Mar 26 22:10:56 1998 0700 Subject: Re: oversize sections At 10:19 26/03/98 -0600, you wrote: Harry, You mentioned about the strips being within 0.001>0.002" prior to gluing.Was that the actual strip measurement taken @ the same stations that youused for your measurement after gluing or was that the measurement ofyourform with the depth gauge. Don John, I'm using epoxy (Nyatex) and after reading some of the responses Ireally doubt that the glue caused my oversized sections. Currently Ithinkthat moisture re-entry and dinged 60 degree points on my depth gauge arethepossible culprits. I look forward to any other thoughts.Thanks for your interest, though. I can see where that might be aproblem with urac. One of the neat things about this list is thewillingnessof those with much experience to help those of us with little!Harry john channer wrote:big snipsmy sections were consistently fat by about .01. from KDLoup@aol.com Thu Mar 26 23:11:27 1998 Subject: cork ring filler List,Having recently turned one of my first grips, I am hoping someone willshare their method of filling the cork defects. Also, has anyone gluedringswith Titebond II? That's what I plan to do before epoxying the grip to theblank. Thanks in advance. Kurt Loup from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Mar 26 23:30:01 1998 Fri, 27 Mar 1998 13:29:24 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re:Why Buy Bamboo? On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Darryl,I'm interested in your finding duplication of action to be difficult. Ifind that 2 rods of the same taper and heat treatment to vary in actionsoperhaps even a .001" variance is enough to cause a difference. Perhapsthevariation in power fibers in the same culm can be the culprit. In any caseI've been trying to duplicate an 8', 3 pc. for a 7 that would false cast110'of line and still give an accurate cast at 20'. And it was a straight taper,too. The other 6 rods have been good rods, just not like that one. I'm stilltrying.Regards,Hank Hank,sounds an eminently worthwhile rod to try to repeat!!! Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Mar 27 00:13:19 1998 Subject: Scrape - Measure - Scrape Harry (et al)I hope that you don't think that I'm picking on you but I thought that itmight be of interest to expound on an area.Too often we as humans will take the short approach. That is - in thecourse of a long term project we will cut corners to shorten the journey.Suchcan be the case of planing bamboo. Hour after hour we will stand at aworkbench and toil. Where we can miss our mark is just at the end. Wewillplane to the surface of the forms and then race to glue the work - only tofind that OOps. If there is a secret here it is only that many of us havelearned the hard way that accuracy takes time.Consider this - a sheet of writing paper is about .003" thick. If thepieces of a section were each off by this thickness the overall error wouldbe.006" flat to flat. OK. With dial caliper and scraper in hand. First measurethen scrape. Break the work up into 5" segments offset by 2 1/2". Measuretheentire strip - writing the dimensions on the masking tape behind theforms.Then start at the tip and march your way down the strip - measure scrapemeasure. Work a 5" area lifting the scraper from the work at the end ofthattravel. The scraper should be set at .0005 or so and you can use judgmentinareas where there are several thousands to go (2 passes equals athousanths).Not enough off - then repeat the steps again and again until you hit thetarget dimensions. Yes - you may well take several hundred measurements.Andyou may find the the forms aren't adjusted right or other items off the 6reasons I can't cut it list. Timewise I spend an hour and a half or so doingjust as I have described. But it narrows the margin of error.Understand - every area of rodmaking involves a certain margin of errororindifference. The bamboo varies - the dimensions - the thickness ofvarnish -the list is each step of the process. If anything - time at this teaches youto try to keep the window of error of each of the steps as narrow aspossible.I have a sign on the wall in back of my workbench - it reads" The BeatingWillContinue Until The Moral Improves - Management" Wayne from channer@frontier.net Fri Mar 27 00:56:02 1998 Subject: epon Onis;I was wondering if anyone else was hanging their rods with weight onthem.I do that, too, but not that heavy. I'll have to see about tying on someheavier thread and increasing the weight. Also will have to make a hangingrack for the back bedroom where I tie flies and wrap and varnish rods. Myworkshop where I do the messy work is not heated and I have to bring theglued up blanks inside to cure in the varnishing cabinet. Thanks for theinput.John Channer from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Mar 27 07:09:51 1998 0700 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much At 22:39 26/03/98 EST, you wrote:Don,I'm glad you unconfused the poor bugger as I've been confused since Istarted back in the 70's and enjoying every minute.Hank. Hank, The dilemma I found myself in with the new guys is telling them how tobuild a rod. There are so many methods used to arrive @ an acceptable rodthat they get confused as to what is the "best" way. I don't think there isa "best" way. Each of us must determine for ourselves how we relate tothevarious techniques that can/are used. As we progress through the caneminefield, we add/discard techniques/tools that we previously thoughtwereindispensable. And so we grow - not so much as builders but more asexperimenters. Some of us arrive @ a place where we are content with theprocesses/tools/techniques used. But just constructing an acceptable rodisonly part of the cane thing. Tapers will keep us up half the night. And sothe learning process continues. from the discussion on the list, cane builders will never be reallycontent. Always experimenting - looking for the ultimate in fishing tools. But, oh how I wish there was a best way. Sure would cut the cost of theprogram and I could get some fishing done. regards, Don from tom@cet-inc.com Fri Mar 27 07:18:49 1998 0000 Subject: Re: cork ring filler Kurt,I use Titebond II or other wood working glues to assemble my cork rings. Imake sure that I use enough so that some squeezes out when I press thecork.Before using sandpaper on the handle, I use a lathe tool bit to "true" thehandle. I also epoxy the grip on the handle when it's completed. I try toget the best cork I can and find no need to fill defects.Tom Whittle ---------- Subject: cork ring filler List,Having recently turned one of my first grips, I am hoping someone willshare their method of filling the cork defects. Also, has anyone gluedringswith Titebond II? That's what I plan to do before epoxying the grip to theblank. Thanks in advance. Kurt Loup from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Mar 27 07:27:13 1998 Subject: Re: cork ring filler In a message dated 3/27/98 5:15:51 AM, you wrote: cork dust. For a big, deep pit that runs the length of the cork ring, use anexacto knife and cut out a wedge shaped piece. Then, pick a cork ring ofsimilar appearance and cut a wedge that will fill what you have cut.TitebondII is excellent on cork grips. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Mar 27 07:29:12 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: oversize sections Don,Those were the actual strip measurements, done with extremepatience andcare, using a dial caliper first, and then checking and double checking withamicrometer. Those measurements were prior to gluing. Wayne's post onthissubject gave a very close description of the methods used. And no, I don'tinanyway think Wayne was picking on me. He has been and continues to be agreathelp!I spent approx. one hour per strip, not per section, but per strip, gettingthingsjust right. Before gluing I was as confident as possible, for a beginner,thatthings were very close (.0005 to .001) to exact.Can moisture re-entry be the problem? We had over 14 inches of raininFebruary, and these strips were glued near the end of January.Don Andersen wrote: At 10:19 26/03/98 -0600, you wrote: Harry, You mentioned about the strips being within 0.001>0.002" prior to gluing.Was that the actual strip measurement taken @ the same stations thatyouused for your measurement after gluing or was that the measurement ofyourform with the depth gauge. Don John, I'm using epoxy (Nyatex) and after reading some of the responses Ireally doubt that the glue caused my oversized sections. Currently Ithinkthat moisture re-entry and dinged 60 degree points on my depth gaugeare thepossible culprits. I look forward to any other thoughts.Thanks for your interest, though. I can see where that might be aproblem with urac. One of the neat things about this list is thewillingnessof those with much experience to help those of us with little!Harry john channer wrote:big snips with itmy sections were consistently fat by about .01. from dhaftel@att.com Fri Mar 27 08:16:06 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 09:15:42-0500 Subject: RE: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences 4.0.995.52 IAA18972 Hey Darryl, When you sharpen your blade(s) to 30Ÿ do you take the edge "all the wayout" to make a completely flat edge, or do you create a "compound edge" either? I know the Stanley pamphlet mentions the compound style forbench planes but I was wondering if this might offer any advantages incane planing. Thanx... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: SalarFly [SMTP:SalarFly@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, March 26, 1998 11:10 AM Subject: Fwd: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences I don't think this ever made it on the list. Please excuse me if you have seen it before. Darryl Hayashida Thinking back to our Node vs. Nodeless debate, most ofthe nodeless guys complained about "pesky nodes" andthe lifts and chips they produce. I couldn't see the problemthey were having. Sure I got a few lifts, but they were aminor problem. Surely less of a problem than doing 18to 36 or more scarfs. After experimenting with the bevel angle last Saturday,I started wondering. Perhaps the people having so muchtrouble with lifts are sharpening their plane blades at25 or less degrees. I just happened to start sharpeningat 30 degrees from the start by accident. The directionssaid to sharpen at 25 or 30 degrees, and I chose 30 forno good reason at all. 25 degrees did produce lifts at just about every node during my testing, where 30 degreesproduced none. To go further. About a month ago I wrote in about usinga Stanley Quick-Grip clamp to hold my splines in the form.Others wrote in that holding the splines weren't a problem.Again perhaps they are sharpening at 25 degrees, whilemy irons are at 30 degrees. The steeper angles greatlyincrease the effort it takes to cut a shaving, and having topush harder on the plane will tend to shift the spline in theform. Another difference someone already wrote in about. He saidhe couldn't plane six strips without resharpening, and foundthat the iron stayed sharp longer when sharpened at a steeper angle. What do you think? Something as simple as plane ironbevel account for some of our differences in technique? Darryl Hayashida from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Mar 27 08:33:12 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Why Buy Bamboo? Is it possible that the great makers of the past did the same thing asthe great violin makers of the past and that is instead of trying tomatch a certain taper to the nearest 1000 they adjusted their taper tocompensate for the difference in power fibers from one piece of bambooto another. I know that is what the great luthiers of the past did, asno two pieces of wood, even from the same tree, were alike and theyadjusted the thickness and taper of their tops to compensate for this.The top of a violin is a lot like a bamboo rod in that it has to befairly stiff but flexible to be able to vibrate (bend) efficiently. ----------From: FISHWOOL[SMTP:FISHWOOL@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, March 26, 1998 7:40 PM Subject: Re:Why Buy Bamboo? Darryl,I'm interested in your finding duplication of action to bedifficult. Ifind that 2 rods of the same taper and heat treatment to vary inaction soperhaps even a .001" variance is enough to cause a difference. Perhapsthevariation in power fibers in the same culm can be the culprit. In anycaseI've been trying to duplicate an 8', 3 pc. for a 7 that would falsecast 110'of line and still give an accurate cast at 20'. And it was a straighttaper,too. The other 6 rods have been good rods, just not like that one. I'mstilltrying.Regards,Hank from harry37@epix.net Fri Mar 27 08:34:01 1998 JAA28028 Subject: Keystone, Colorado To the list-- I may be in the Keystone, Colorado, area on business in mid August. from what I can determine, it's somewhat southwest of Boulder. Can anyone suggest any water to check out in that area? Thanks, Greg Kuntz from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Mar 27 08:45:14 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA00867 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id IAA06470 for ; Fri, 27 Mar1998 Subject: Re: knick (straight sections) Two additional things I can think of, both of which caused me trouble on my first 2 rods: First, when you cut your culm sections from between the nodes, don'tgo too close to the nodes. I think you should discard 1 inch on eachside of the node. Otherwise the strips you split will often havebig or little twists or bends in the last half inch or so, which willthrow everything off. Or the strip will be thicker near the node, whichleads me to idea two: Second, make sure the strip is seating squarely in the splicing jig.Sometimes there are little ridges on the pith side, or some other unevenness which can cause them to cant in the jig. It is worthwhile to make a couple passes with the plane on the pith side of each strip to square it up.--------------------------- -------------------------------------------Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 26 Mar 1998, Christoph wrote: Hi folks, I build knotless rods.When I glue the pieces together to a splice they have the tendency to gospiral.Sometimes more and sometimes less.I cant find out where the problem is. Thanks a lot ALEX from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Mar 27 08:57:53 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id IAA03029 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id IAA08110 for ; Fri, 27 Mar1998 Subject: RE: Why Buy Bamboo? I took off work and went fishing yesterday. My partner asked my whysomebody would want to fish bamboo. I told him, if he likes baseballin the summer (and I know he does), he'd like bamboo. It's relaxed,comfortable, quirky, and inefficient yet elegant. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Mar 27 10:24:05 1998 Subject: RE: Why Buy Bamboo? RO>I took off work and went fishing yesterday. My partner asked my whyRO>somebody would want to fish bamboo. I told him, if he likes baseballRO>in the summer (and I know he does), he'd like bamboo. It's relaxed,RO>comfortable, quirky, and inefficient yet elegant.RO>......................................................................RO>Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is better Frank, Or ask why use a wood bat when there's AL bats? Don from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Mar 27 14:55:26 1998 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences OAA31100 When you sharpen your blade(s) to 30Ÿ do you take the edge "all the wayout" to make a completely flat edge, or do you create a "compound edge" either? I know the Stanley pamphlet mentions the compound style forbench planes but I was wondering if this might offer any advantages incane planing. I have always had my irons sharpened at 30 deg. for the complete bevel.When I experimented with other angles I had to sharpen the completebevel for 25 deg. because you can't not sharpen the whole bevel whenyou go to a shallower. When I started sharpening steeper I only sharpenedabout an 1/8th inch wide strip due to laziness. It was a lot of work togrind the whole bevel to the different angles. I don't think it makes muchdifference using a compound edge for planing bamboo. In woodworkinga compound edge is used to lessen the drag of the blade going throughthe wood, much as a hollow ground knife is used to skin animals. It lessens the material to metal contact. On a plane iron sometimes it's called a chip breaking bevel. The bamboo strip is so narrow, and since the bamboo curls up and away from the blade as it is cut, I feel acompound edge on your plane blade is unneccessary. Darryl Hayashida from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Mar 27 15:51:15 1998 Subject: Re: Keystone, Colorado At 09:34 AM 3/27/98 -0500, you wrote:To the list-- I may be in the Keystone, Colorado, area on business in mid August. from what I can determine, it's somewhat southwest of Boulder. Can anyone suggest any water to check out in that area? Thanks, Greg Kuntz Greg,Keystone is more than somewhat SW, in fact it due west of Denver upI- 70.When your in Keystone forget the Snake river that runs through the valleyand head to Breckenridge and the Blue. If you don't mind lots of peoplewatching the hole that is under the bridge at the discount mall has been agood producer for many more years than the mall has. In fact that wholestrech is quite fishable. I have also had good fishing on the first fewmiles before it enters Lake Dillon. If you need someone to show you a fewspots I have a friend just out side Keystone that loves an excuse to gofishing. Contact me off list and we'll get you hooked up. Gary from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 27 16:19:49 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Why Buy Bamboo? Don,As an x-pitcher and baseball player we all know nothing is as sweet as thesound of a baseball well hit off of a hickory bat. The clunk of an aluminumbat just don't get it.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 27 16:25:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences Darryl,I am using two different planes one with compound angle and one angledall theway back. I feel I get less drag with the compound VS. the other. My $02worth.Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Mar 27 16:29:02 1998 Subject: RE: Why Buy Bamboo? RO>Don,RO>As an x-pitcher and baseball player we all know nothing is as sweet astheRO>sound of a baseball well hit off of a hickory bat. The clunk of analuminumRO>bat just don't get it.RO>Bret Bret, You mean it's something like using a bamboo rod? Don from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Mar 27 16:43:10 1998 Subject: Re: Keystone, Colorado Greg,I would suggest trying the Blue or Ten Mile creek or tailwaters of Willforkreservoir at Kremmling. I called a friend out there who is a guide and thisis what he suggested for you.Bret from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Mar 27 17:15:44 1998 Subject: Re: Why Buy Bamboo? In a message dated 3/26/98 7:47:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: I'm interested in your finding duplication of action to be difficult. Ifind that 2 rods of the same taper and heat treatment to vary in actionsoperhaps even a .001" variance is enough to cause a difference. Perhapsthevariation in power fibers in the same culm can be the culprit. In anycaseI've been trying to duplicate an 8', 3 pc. for a 7 that would false cast110'of line and still give an accurate cast at 20'. And it was a straighttaper,too. The other 6 rods have been good rods, just not like that one. I'mstilltrying. I know what you mean. I have made 5 of the Sir D Favorite. All of themnice casting rods, but each of them with their own characteristics. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Mar 27 17:19:44 1998 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences In a message dated 3/27/98 2:29:02 PM Pacific Standard Time,Grhghlndr@aol.comwrites: I am using two different planes one with compound angle and one angledall theway back. I feel I get less drag with the compound VS. the other. My$02worth. Have you tried waxing the sole? Major reduction in drag. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri Mar 27 17:37:21 1998 Sat, 28 Mar 1998 07:37:02 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: RE: Why Buy Bamboo? On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>I took off work and went fishing yesterday. My partner asked my whyRO>somebody would want to fish bamboo. I told him, if he likes baseballRO>in the summer (and I know he does), he'd like bamboo. It's relaxed,RO>comfortable, quirky, and inefficient yet elegant.RO>......................................................................RO>Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is better Frank, Or ask why use a wood bat when there's AL bats? Don Actually this is a better comparison than it at first seems.Years back in Cricket (you may not know what Cricket is but it's a game of bats and balls played by quite a few people around the world) a fast bowler called Dennis Lillie played an innings with an Al bat just to be different.The first thing you noticed was it went "tingnnging" rather than "crack" when he hit the ball, the second was he amost lost all feeling inhis hands from the shock. It delivered more power to the ball, but it didn't compare with willow as a bat. Al baseball bats are not realy the same because at least they work but I used to like hearing a "crack" and feeling the hit better than using Al. I seem to remember being able to direct the bat at the backstop better using Al though. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from KDLoup@aol.com Fri Mar 27 17:49:13 1998 Subject: Re: cork ring filler Tom and Tom, Thanks for the advice. Tom where are you buying the cork that doesn'tneed filler? Kurt Loup from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Fri Mar 27 18:38:23 1998 dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: cork rings Has anyone done buisness with Cork Specialties, Inc. in Miami, Florida? Iran across their web pagehttp://www.corkgrips.com/and emailed them for a price list. The sell handles and cork rings. Theprice they sent me for the cork rings is:$0.53 ea. for 1 1/8" flor quality,$0.64 ea. for 1 1/4" flor quality,$0.40 ea. for 1 3/4" A quality; plus 10% Federal excise tax. Minimum order is $75 and they pay shipping Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from jfoster@gte.net Fri Mar 27 18:41:53 1998 Subject: web Added Russ Goodings, Golden Witch rods to the makers page, good pics ofhis restorations Jerry from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Mar 27 18:50:10 1998 Subject: Re: Why Buy Bamboo? FISHWOOL wrote: I've been trying to duplicate an 8', 3 pc. for a 7 that would false cast110'of line and still give an accurate cast at 20'. Hank,What happens to the other 90' of line you had in the air?Reed from gwr@seanet.com Fri Mar 27 19:24:01 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA18249 for; Subject: Re: cork rings Onis, I bought from them about a year ago. I got several hundred of their"flor" grade rings. For the price they are not bad, but they were not allflor quality. Nice folks to do business with. If you are willing tohigh-grade and pitch a few dozen rings out of each hundred, you'll still begetting a decent price/ring. Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com Has anyone done buisness with Cork Specialties, Inc. in Miami, Florida? Iran across their web pagehttp://www.corkgrips.com/and emailed them for a price list. The sell handles and cork rings. Theprice they sent me for the cork rings is:$0.53 ea. for 1 1/8" flor quality,$0.64 ea. for 1 1/4" flor quality,$0.40 ea. for 1 3/4" A quality;plus 10% Federal excise tax. Minimum order is $75 and they pay shipping Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Mar 27 21:24:13 1998 Subject: Re: cork ring filler Kurt,I use color preservative, putting it in the depressions and sanding thearea 'til the cork powder fills the hole-it's a lot less messy than foolingaround with white lead mixtures, etc.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Mar 27 21:24:22 1998 Subject: Re: Re: And we can't agree on much Don,Part of the joy is searching for the holy grail-put down that plane and gofish-the grail will still be out there somewhere.Tight lines,Hank.P.S. Temp. here reached 82 f.- yes, you guessed it ,I was working on a rod-I must have screwed up my priorities somewhere. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Mar 27 21:24:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Why Buy Bamboo? Reed,It's back on the reel-a very versatile rod :-)Hank.P.S. I gave the rod away for a steelhead trip I haven't gotten yet-thatwas 5 years ago-oh wel , lose some ,win some. from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Mar 27 21:27:03 1998 Subject: Re: Furling question (Hey you guys in the UK) In a message dated 98-03-26 15:21:52 EST, you write: John Henk Verhaar has a really good on-line article on the subject. A linkshowsyou how to do it faster with a drill/driver. If you do this once by hand,chances are the second one will be "motorized". http://www.idg.dk/mj/tacktech/henk/index.html Davy Riggs from gwr@seanet.com Fri Mar 27 22:01:10 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA22776 for; Subject: Taper request Is anyone who is willing to share it in possesion of the taper for thelittle salmon rod that Orvis (Wes Jordan I guess) made for Lee Wulff? I'dappreciate any help. Thanks in advance, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Fri Mar 27 22:19:06 1998 0700 Subject: Re: Plane Blade Bevel Angle and Differences WAA31217 At 15:54 27/03/98 EST, you wrote: When you sharpen your blade(s) to 30Ÿ do you take the edge "all the wayout" to make a completely flat edge, or do you create a "compound edge" toeither? I know the Stanley pamphlet mentions the compound style forbench planes but I was wondering if this might offer any advantages incane planing. I have always had my irons sharpened at 30 deg. for the complete bevel.When I experimented with other angles I had to sharpen the completebevel for 25 deg. because you can't not sharpen the whole bevel whenyou go to a shallower. When I started sharpening steeper I only sharpenedabout an 1/8th inch wide strip due to laziness. It was a lot of work togrind the whole bevel to the different angles. I don't think it makes muchdifference using a compound edge for planing bamboo. In woodworkinga compound edge is used to lessen the drag of the blade going throughthe wood, much as a hollow ground knife is used to skin animals. It lessens the material to metal contact. On a plane iron sometimes it's called a chip breaking bevel. The bamboo strip is so narrow, and since the bamboo curls up and away from the blade as it is cut, I feel acompound edge on your plane blade is unneccessary. Darryl Hayashida Darryl et al, Micro bevels are used extensively for planning to cut down sharpeningtimeand strengthen the plane blade edge. Hock blades will require less caredue to the thickness of their blades. For those using Stanley or Record"outta the box" blades, a micro-bevel does reduce chattering. Most longterm builders I know use a micro-bevel. regards, Don from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Mar 27 22:32:12 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 27Mar 1998 23:33:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Plane Angles and Those last .002's I have tried several angels in my sharpening techniques. I have settled on a 35* angle (or very close) for all planing. At 30* I ended up with lifting when taking deep cuts. However, when using the 35* I can take rather deep cuts and at the same time get down to .002 cuts when I want to. I have tried much steeper angles and do think they take too much effort. Anyhow....this brings me to another point in regards to what Wayne said about patience... I have found I can scrape the forms when I take a .002 cut for the last few passes. However, I also end up with strips .002 over sized. I don't think there is a correlation with those numbers. I do know with a scraper, even a small one, I can get to the correct dimensions. I attribute this to the blade not being able to engage the strip when the form is so close to the surface of the bamboo. I have found two solutions...1) Setting my forms shallow by .002. 2) after planing, pushing my strips 1/4" up in the forms and taking my plane blade out to scrape the length twice on both sides. I know this isn't very scientific....but it has worked for me! Hope this helps someone. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Mar 27 22:32:18 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 27Mar 1998 23:33:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Truncated Ferrules Take a look at my home page off the rodmakers page...Munro Rod Company. I am not currently taking orders because a tool and die maker may be producing them for me shortly. I wil let you know. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Mar 27 22:32:20 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 27Mar 1998 23:33:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Binder Design - Which is best Check my page in a short while. I will have some pictures of the binders I sell. I really cannot describe them in words. I took designs from Garrison, Cattanach, and Bogart. Take care. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from KDLoup@aol.com Fri Mar 27 22:42:16 1998 Subject: Re: cork ring filler Hank,Are you referring to the white Flex Coat product or varnish? Kurt from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat Mar 28 07:18:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: cork ring filler Kurt,I'm referring to the clear lacquer type.Hank. from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Mar 28 08:19:48 1998 Subject: Re: Why Buy Bamboo? Hank / Darryl I have always been under the assumption that a rodmaker putsa bit of his soul into each and every rod he makes - you just cannot put thesame bit of soul in every one - Maybe that explains it. Chris On Fri, 27 Mar 1998 18:14:51 EST, SalarFly wrote: In a message dated 3/26/98 7:47:47 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: I'm interested in your finding duplication of action to be difficult. Ifind that 2 rods of the same taper and heat treatment to vary in actionsoperhaps even a .001" variance is enough to cause a difference. Perhapsthevariation in power fibers in the same culm can be the culprit. In anycaseI've been trying to duplicate an 8', 3 pc. for a 7 that would false cast110'of line and still give an accurate cast at 20'. And it was a straighttaper,too. The other 6 rods have been good rods, just not like that one. I'mstilltrying. I know what you mean. I have made 5 of the Sir D Favorite. All of themnice casting rods, but each of them with their own characteristics. Darryl Hayashida Regards Chris from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Mar 28 09:15:36 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Scrape - Measure - Scrape Wayne,As per our conversation yesterday afternoon, I'm going to try to drivesome of of the moisture out of the strips with a long, slow, application ofheat.Perhaps I can shrink the strips back to roughly the intended dimensions. Istillhaven't determined what is the most economical method of long-term lowheattreatment, though. Even before my wife vetoed using her oven, I measuredand30"strips won't quite fit. When I figure it all out I will post my results tothelist. I think all of us in warm humid climates will be able to learnsomething.Another question: While I'm watching and weighing these sectionsI'llstart on the next rod. After planing to 60's, I'll heat treat @ 375 for 7minutes. To prevent moisture re-entry, what sort of constanttemperature do Ineed to maintain? Would 100 - 120 degrees be enough? I can do that withthesimple light bulb fixture?Any ideas are appreciated...HarryWayne Catt wrote: Harry (et al)I hope that you don't think that I'm picking on you but I thought that itmight be of interest to expound on an area.snip from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Sat Mar 28 10:02:26 1998 (MET) Subject: Monic Fly Line for Bamboo rods Dear Friends! Today i received a "new" Flyline for testing, call "Monic", is clear incolor.Weight 5,WF, floating( think exists also in other weights and also assinking line).Has anyone experience with this line, fished with split cane rods?Is it a good line? I think must be, especially for clear, low watersin mountains?! Thanks for all answers Stefan/Swiss trout hunter from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat Mar 28 16:18:01 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sat, 28Mar 1998 13:12:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Scrape - Measure - Scrape I really don't think constant heat is necessary. After talking to quite a few cabinet makers, simply placing your strips in a 1" pvc tube (capping of course) will suffice. Even if the strips absorbed the x cubic inches in the tube you would still be fine. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 from anglport@con2.com Sat Mar 28 19:33:43 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA19923 for Subject: Re: Mystery rod/ Ferrules Guys,I've got a rod with absolutely no markings on it and so don't hope for much,but while searching through all the documentation I can find I noticed thatthe ferrules HAVE NO WELTS! Anybody ever see that before? The fellowwhoasked me to look at it gave me the old "It's a custom job so you probablywon't find anything on it" I took that to mean he had no idea where it came from and Uncle Harry (or whoever) told him it was specially made.I thinkthey're NiSi too!If anyone knows of a maker who used unwelted ferrules, lemme know andI'llput the rest of the details up at that time.Art from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Mar 28 19:45:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Mystery rod/ Ferrules Art, I also have some rods with no welts on ferrules. Mine are not oldcustomjobs either. One was a japanese rod I know that much.Bret from anglport@con2.com Sat Mar 28 20:03:30 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA21469 for Subject: Re: Mystery rod/ Ferrules At 08:43 PM 3/28/98 EST, you wrote:Art, I also have some rods with no welts on ferrules. Mine are not oldcustomjobs either. One was a japanese rod I know that much.Bret Bret,Thanks;This one is old enough (or cheap enough) to have a cork sheeting handle.Theseat looks like a Chubb Montague (or any no of others) but the seat iscrimped onto the cork with two pin punches (looks pretty cr*ppy). The rodhas intermediate wraps every 3" on the butt and randomly on the otherthree(mid and tips)ranging from to 2" to 4"! The funny part is those NiSi-lookingferrules. I think somebody found a not-too-great rod and fully butchered itas an "upgrade". Your opinion?Art from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 28 20:19:54 1998 Subject: mystery rod Art;Have you read Michael Sinclair's Rod Restoration Handbook?As near as Icantell from what I've read there and elsewhere, unwelted ferrules are eithervery old or very cheap. Montague and H-I both used unwelted ferrules ontheir cheapest trade rods.Look at the cane work if you are in doubt as toquality. Visible glue lines, voids, and nodes next to each other all denotebottom of the barrel rods.On the other hand, if the glue lines are good,the nodes are actually staggered to some definite pattern and the hexshapeis good all the way out to the tips, then it is of better than averagequality and possibly worth some effort.I just finished refinishing an H-ITonka Prince, which was about an average rod for them and it is a poorlymade piece of junk, I only did it because it was the guys grandfathers andhe really wanted it done. As soon as the varnish sets up I'm going to castit and see if it casts any better than it looks, I sure hope so. I alsohave another rod to do that had a cheap plastic(not bakelite) reel seat,very irregular wraps and guide spacing, nodes next to another in severalspots, but also had Granger ferrules,good glue lines and general cane workand casts great, go figure.Out here on the frontier we take what canecomesalong because otherwise its a long drive to see one.The opportunity to seemany different cane rods by different makers is about the only thing Ienvyyou city folk.John ChannerDurango,Co. from anglport@con2.com Sat Mar 28 20:34:28 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA23544 for Subject: Re: mystery rod At 06:04 PM 3/28/98, you wrote:Art;Have you read Michael Sinclair's Rod Restoration Handbook?As near as Icantell from what I've read there and elsewhere, unwelted ferrules areeithervery old or very cheap. Montague and H-I both used unwelted ferrules ontheir cheapest trade rods.Look at the cane work if you are in doubt as toquality. John ChannerDurango,Co. John,My problem is that I READ the book back when I first got it and NOW I'mjusttrying to work off the pictures in it. Not the ideal way to do the detectivejob, but I figured they would give me some idea of where I was going.Thanks back and reread everything from 10 to 15 years ago! Another victim of C-R-Sdisease!Be talkin' to ya,Art from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Mar 28 21:13:55 1998 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much Don Most amazing (and aggravating) to me is all the people who come up andsaysomething like, "I've been working on a rod since 1989" or "Well, I've beengetting all my tools and fixtures together for a few years, but I just don'tknow where I'd put the oven." They've obviously got some kind of desire todoit but there's a terrific angst associated with it. I went so far as to help one guy make a nice wooden planing form and itjustsat on his bench with a spline in it for about six months. In this case hewas overwhelmed by the perceived need for absolute precision. If they would just get off it and make something... precision comes later.Perfection, never. But the good ones won't happen until the "less good"oneshave. Come to think of it, this isn't really something for me to be concernedabout,is it? I'm even wondering if I should go ahead and punch the "send" button. Oh, what the heck. My next posting will be more cohesive, I'm sure. Davy from channer@frontier.net Sat Mar 28 21:35:17 1998 Subject: Re: mystery rod At 09:41 PM 3/28/98 -0500, you wrote:At 06:04 PM 3/28/98, you wrote:Art;Have you read Michael Sinclair's Rod Restoration Handbook?As near as Icantell from what I've read there and elsewhere, unwelted ferrules areeithervery old or very cheap. Montague and H-I both used unwelted ferrules ontheir cheapest trade rods.Look at the cane work if you are in doubt as toquality. John ChannerDurango,Co. John,My problem is that I READ the book back when I first got it and NOW I'mjusttrying to work off the pictures in it. Not the ideal way to do the detectivejob, but I figured they would give me some idea of where I was going.Thanks back and reread everything from 10 to 15 years ago! Another victim of C-R-Sdisease!Be talkin' to ya,Art Art;My problem is I'm a book aholic, all my rodmaking books,magazines, copiesof TPF and bamboo rod catalogues sit in piles next to and behind the lazyboy and if i'm sitting down, I've got my face buried in one or the other.Itsure beats television until I go out to the shop. BTW, what's C-R- Sanyway,or do I not want to know?John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Mar 28 21:36:06 1998 Subject: Re: mystery rod RO>My problem is that I READ the book back when I first got it and NOW I'mjustRO>trying to work off the pictures in it. Not the ideal way to do thedetectiveRO>job, but I figured they would give me some idea of where I was going.ThanksRO>for the update on what I should have remembered. I guess I'll have to goRO>back and reread everything from 10 to 15 years ago! Another victim ofC-R-SRO>disease!RO>Be talkin' to ya,RO>Art Art, Michael's book is the best book around for production rod spec's,however, there's lots of editing errors in it. Lot's of holes too. I guess we can pray that he does a 2nd edition soon to correct theediting and then maybe a 2nd book to fill in some holes. His Heddon book is lightyears ahead of the restoration book in editingand content - too bad he's only been able to do the Heddon line of rodsthat well. Don Burns PS - if the ferrules (without welts) are shouldered - my best guess isMontague. I've got a few rod sections by them that have that type offerrule. from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Mar 28 21:40:28 1998 Subject: Re: Why Buy Bamboo? In a message dated 98-03-27 09:37:20 EST, you write: Dear Patrick While I'm sure that one bamboo culm differs nearly as much from the nextasspruce logs differ, I'm equally certain that all the little nuances andaccidents have just as much to do with it. (Ever tried to tap- tunebamboo?Dr. Hutchins' little trick don't work neither 'cause the glitter just rollsright off at every frequency :-) Once you've made a bunch of rods and observed how all these things relatetothe qualities of the finished product, you start to get an inkling of how tobring off the effect you want. At least I think I'm starting to get aninkling. In the shop of a friend in Munich I saw a Strad that, over the centuries, hadbeen doubled, patched, neck lengthened and I don't know what-all and itstillhad a tone and range that would make you salivate. You just can't bringthatoff with a micrometer, you know? Davy from anglport@con2.com Sat Mar 28 21:48:32 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA28653 for Subject: Re: mystery rod Art, Michael's book is the best book around for production rod spec's,however, there's lots of editing errors in it. Lot's of holes too. Don Burns PS - if the ferrules (without welts) are shouldered - my best guess isMontague. I've got a few rod sections by them that have that type offerrule. Don,They're shouldered; I'll delve deeper into the Montague part of the book.Art from anglport@con2.com Sat Mar 28 21:55:38 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA28988 for Subject: Re: mystery rod Art;My problem is I'm a book aholic, all my rodmaking books,magazines,copiesBTW, what's C-R-Sanyway,or do I not want to know?John ChannerJohn,C---can't; R---remember; S---sh*tI had your disease- --a looong time ago. I thought it would still stand meingood stead, but I am continually finding that I've forgotten whole RAFTs ofinfo that I had down pat "back when". I now have the pile you're talkingabout (and then some) next to my computer and if I EVER get done readingall27 MILLION months of the Archives I'm going to reread every d*mn one ofthethings, from Kreider and Holden to "The Best of the Planing Form"!I certainly appreciate all the help that you guys afford on this list.Art from channer@frontier.net Sun Mar 29 00:03:38 1998 Subject: Re: mystery rod At 11:02 PM 3/28/98 -0500, you wrote: Art;My problem is I'm a book aholic, all my rodmaking books,magazines,copiesBTW, what's C-R-Sanyway,or do I not want to know?John ChannerJohn,C---can't; R---remember; S---sh*tI had your disease- --a looong time ago. I thought it would still stand meingood stead, but I am continually finding that I've forgotten whole RAFTsofinfo that I had down pat "back when". I now have the pile you're talkingabout (and then some) next to my computer and if I EVER get done readingall27 MILLION months of the Archives I'm going to reread every d*mn one ofthethings, from Kreider and Holden to "The Best of the Planing Form"!I certainly appreciate all the help that you guys afford on this list.Art Art:Now I get it, must be a little slow on the uptake tonite. I only have thatproblem with short term memory. I can't remember what I did yesterday orlast week, but 5 years ago is no problem, 10 is easier and 25 easieryet.Iknow what you mean about the archives, they go on forever, but itsinteresting reading.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Mar 29 05:23:32 1998 Sun, 29 Mar 1998 19:23:24 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Mystery rod/ Ferrules On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Art Port wrote: Guys,I've got a rod with absolutely no markings on it and so don't hope formuch,but while searching through all the documentation I can find I noticedthatthe ferrules HAVE NO WELTS! Anybody ever see that before? The fellowwhoasked me to look at it gave me the old "It's a custom job so you probablywon't find anything on it" I took that to mean he had no idea where itcame from and Uncle Harry (or whoever) told him it was specially made.I thinkthey're NiSi too!If anyone knows of a maker who used unwelted ferrules, lemme know andI'llput the rest of the details up at that time.Art Are they turned from solid rod? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from DocBry8146@aol.com Sun Mar 29 07:11:06 1998 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much "Precision comes later, perfection never".............well put. Not only inrod building my friend. In the relentless pursuit of perfection, Dr. Bryan Wierwill from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 29 08:20:16 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA11787 for Subject: Re: Mystery rod/ Ferrules At 07:23 PM 3/29/98 +0800, you wrote:On Sat, 28 Mar 1998, Art Port wrote: Guys,I've got a rod with absolutely no markings on it and so don't hope formuch, If anyone knows of a maker who used unwelted ferrules, lemme knowand I'llput the rest of the details up at that time.Art Are they turned from solid rod? Tony Tony,To sound really uninformed, how can you tell? There seems to be noplating;that's why I'm thinking they're NiSi, but solid? They ARE shouldered if thathas a bearing on the diagnosis....Art from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Mar 29 09:08:25 1998 Subject: Re: varnish In a message dated 98-03-14 09:32:34 EST, you write: *John: thanks for such a good description on your varnish techniques andexperiences.* I use a rubber stopper to seal it. I squeeze the stopper tolet the air out and get it right down to the varnish. I haven't had anyproblems with it skinning over or setting up in the tube using thismethod.If it is going to be a long time before I use it, I will float a teaspoonor so of thinner on top of the varnish before I close the tube.Use a tubeor straw in the thinner then put your finger over it to hold in the thinnerthen release on top of the varnish. *Not sure how to duplicate the rubber stopper you mention, above, butwouldlike to use that method. Any suggestions where such an item might beavailable? Ok, that straw is better than dipping with a spoon and sloppingitin. Thanks.* Another trick that works for meif I sand thru the varnish, or if I find a void in the finish, is to use aneedle and put a drop in the void, let cure, then carefully sand andpolish. *Again, sounds better than the small-tip brush I'v used as such usuallyputstoo much varnish on the spot.* The worst thing about spar varnishes to me is that they darken yourthreadconsiderably. After much experimenting with color preservatives I havesettled on Dave LeClairs poly( I know I'm contradicting myself,but it doeswork very well) blend rod varnish. *I have used the Clemens "Brilliance" color preserver with good results. No the rod shaft, even over varnish. Recommend the small bottle if you try it,as it seems to seperate after a year or thereabouts.** If ( or when) you find it necessary to strip varnish of any make, SafestStripper works fine and doesn't stink up your shop or back room orbasement.Sorry to sound like a commercial for these products,but I find I get moreand more opinionated as life goes on. All disclaimers apply. I hope you getsome use out of these ramblings.John Channer >> *Thanks for your help John, Richard from rmoon@ida.net Sun Mar 29 09:59:13 1998 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much Davy I could not have said it better. Well doneRalph from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Mar 29 10:13:22 1998 Subject: Re: varnish, avoiding skin in tube I've been filling the gap above the varnish with a product called "Dust off"which is used in the darkroom for blowing dust off negatives etc. It's justaninert gas that replaces the oxygen rich air in that space between thevarnishsurface and the cap atop my tube. Works for me and is easy to find. Rob Hoffhines from channer@frontier.net Sun Mar 29 10:33:02 1998 Subject: Re: varnish Fallcreek9 wrote: In a message dated 98-03-14 09:32:34 EST, you write: *John: thanks for such a good description on your varnish techniques andexperiences.* I use a rubber stopper to seal it. I squeeze the stopper tolet the air out and get it right down to the varnish. I haven't had anyproblems with it skinning over or setting up in the tube using thismethod.If it is going to be a long time before I use it, I will float a teaspoonor so of thinner on top of the varnish before I close the tube.Use a tubeor straw in the thinner then put your finger over it to hold in the thinnerthen release on top of the varnish. *Not sure how to duplicate the rubber stopper you mention, above, butwouldlike to use that method. Any suggestions where such an item might beavailable? Ok, that straw is better than dipping with a spoon andslopping itin. Thanks.* Another trick that works for meif I sand thru the varnish, or if I find a void in the finish, is to use aneedle and put a drop in the void, let cure, then carefully sand andpolish. *Again, sounds better than the small-tip brush I'v used as such usuallyputstoo much varnish on the spot.* The worst thing about spar varnishes to me is that they darken yourthreadconsiderably. After much experimenting with color preservatives I havesettled on Dave LeClairs poly( I know I'm contradicting myself,but itdoeswork very well) blend rod varnish. *I have used the Clemens "Brilliance" color preserver with good results. No tothe rod shaft, even over varnish. Recommend the small bottle if you tryit,as it seems to seperate after a year or thereabouts.** If ( or when) you find it necessary to strip varnish of any make, SafestStripper works fine and doesn't stink up your shop or back room orbasement.Sorry to sound like a commercial for these products,but I find I getmoreand more opinionated as life goes on. All disclaimers apply. I hope yougetsome use out of these ramblings.John Channer >> *Thanks for your help John, Richard Richard;The rubber stoppers I mentioned should be available at any hardwarestore,look in the aisle with all the bins of nuts and bolts and such.Tell me more about Clemens brilliance, I've tried most everything I canfind, but haven't run into this yet, it does sound kind of like U-40. Ididn't have mush luck with u-40, the varnish bled under the wraps anddarkend it in bands on each edge.Maybe I didn't do it right. Do you haveany trouble with the wraps cracking, I have this trouble on rods I haveused laquer on, unfortuneatly, the color seems to turn out best withlaquer.Be "talking" to youJohn Channer from anglport@con2.com Sun Mar 29 10:56:14 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA19619 for Subject: Re: varnish *I have used the Clemens "Brilliance" color preserver with good results. No tothe rod shaft, even over varnish. Recommend the small bottle if you tryit,as it seems to seperate after a year or thereabouts.** John Channer >> *Thanks for your help John, Richard Richard;The rubber stoppers I mentioned should be available at any hardwarestore,look in the aisle with all the bins of nuts and bolts and such.Tell me more about Clemens brilliance, Do you haveany trouble with the wraps cracking, I have this trouble on rods I haveused laquer on, unfortuneatly, the color seems to turn out best withlaquer.Be "talking" to youJohn Channer John,One of the problems I had drove me crazy. Unfortunately I don'tstill have all the details (only the horrid ones I'll relate to you).I tried "standard " color preserver on one of my blanks (two, if Iremember correctly--I'm REAL slow to learn) and they dippedbeeyootifully---ONCE! I dipped them a second time and the varnish (maybepolyurethane) actually BUBBLED UP at every @^$$#@&&^^*& wrap! Istripped thefirst coat of varnish, dipped again, and voila(!) they foamed all over again(and I do mean FOAMED--it looked like the effect of a stripping agent).Hasanyone complained of such a fiasco on list? I couldn't find any mention ofit in the archives.I then went to Clemens' latex (I believe) preserver , the Brilliancethe others are touting, and had no more trouble. I STILL prefer to usenothing though. It may darken, but at least it doesn't blotch. I had one tip I didn't like and ive wrapped it with every color I'll everconsider using . I then covered each with preserver and varnish and justvarnish. At least I can POINT ot the color I'll get when all is finished.Art from saweiss@flash.net Sun Mar 29 15:08:02 1998 Subject: Self-Introduction I guess that I have been lurking long enough.I'm a dentist, retired after spending a career with the US Public HealthService. My current occupation could be defined as a fishing bum, since I guide,teach flytying , & flycasting for the local Orvis dealer (do I detect someimpending comments?). I have built several graphite & glass rods. Now I'm putting together asetup archives, as well as from Wayne's book, Garrison's and Kreider's. Hope to be talking with you in the future Steve Weiss from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Mar 29 17:06:47 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Self-Introduction Welcome Steve! Don't lurk too long. You will probably never enough to feelcompletely comfortable. Jump in and get started, learn as you go, and Ihopeyou get as much enjoyment from this craft as so many others of us do. Dr. Harry Boyd, Jr. Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: I guess that I have been lurking long enough.I'm a dentist, retired after spending a career with the US Public HealthService. My current occupation could be defined as a fishing bum, since I guide,teach flytying , & flycasting for the local Orvis dealer (do I detect someimpending comments?). I have built several graphite & glass rods. Now I'm putting together asetup Rodmakersarchives, as well as from Wayne's book, Garrison's and Kreider's. Hope to be talking with you in the future Steve Weiss from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun Mar 29 20:56:52 1998 Subject: Re: varnish In a message dated 98-03-29 11:45:06 EST, you write: JohnClemens Brillianc requirs several coats. Directions say to thin to 50- 50(Ithink) with water for the first 2-3 coats, then full strength for a coupleofcoats. With the thin first coats, it seems to wet out the thread quite welland thus no varnish bleed for those awful dark bands (yes, we all seem tohaveseen them) that require a rewrap. At least when the material is fresh. Incase you are not familiar with Clemens, there tele no is 610-395- 5119,fax610-398-2580, 9:00-5:00 Eastern time. Hope this turns out to be good info. Regards,Richard from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Sun Mar 29 21:48:36 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id UAA27606 for; Sun, 29 Mar 1998 20:48:29 -0700 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much Ragnarig wrote: Don Most amazing (and aggravating) to me is all the people who come up andsaysomething like, "I've been working on a rod since 1989" or "Well, I'vebeengetting all my tools and fixtures together for a few years, but I justdon'tknow where I'd put the oven." They've obviously got some kind of desireto doit but there's a terrific angst associated with it. I went so far as to help one guy make a nice wooden planing form and itjustsat on his bench with a spline in it for about six months. In this case hewas overwhelmed by the perceived need for absolute precision. If they would just get off it and make something... precision comes later.Perfection, never. But the good ones won't happen until the "less good"oneshave. Come to think of it, this isn't really something for me to be concernedabout,is it? I'm even wondering if I should go ahead and punch the "send"button. Oh, what the heck. My next posting will be more cohesive, I'm sure. Davy Thanks for hitting the "send" button. I finished my wooden forms 2 monthsagoandI've had this mental block about starting the planing because of theperceivedneed for precision. Glad to hear I'm not the only one. Now to get off mybuttand get on with it . . . from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Sun Mar 29 22:09:20 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA28145 for Subject: Plane The other day I went looking for a plane for cutting final taperswith (I already have a Stanley #60 1/2 which some of you say willsuffice for rough planing). I came across a plane in a pawn shop thatlooks (to me) just like a Stanley 9 1/2, but is made by a company calledMillers Falls. It's designated as a No. 16, and looks well-made to myuntrained eye. I figured for 25 bucks I couldn't go too wrong. Cananyone tell me anything about the quality of this plane and whether itis suitable for bamboo work? Thanks in advance for any replies. --Matt CliffordMissoula, Montana from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Sun Mar 29 22:15:29 1998 0700 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much At 20:48 29/03/98 -0700, you wrote: Ragnarig wrote: Don Most amazing (and aggravating) to me is all the people who come up andsaysomething like, "I've been working on a rod since 1989" or "Well, I'vebeengetting all my tools and fixtures together for a few years, but I justdon'tknow where I'd put the oven." They've obviously got some kind of desireto doit but there's a terrific angst associated with it. I went so far as to help one guy make a nice wooden planing form and itjustsat on his bench with a spline in it for about six months. In this case hewas overwhelmed by the perceived need for absolute precision. If they would just get off it and make something... precision comeslater.Perfection, never. But the good ones won't happen until the "less good"oneshave. Come to think of it, this isn't really something for me to be concernedabout,is it? I'm even wondering if I should go ahead and punch the "send"button. Oh, what the heck. My next posting will be more cohesive, I'm sure. Davy Thanks for hitting the "send" button. I finished my wooden forms 2monthsago andI've had this mental block about starting the planing because of theperceivedneed for precision. Glad to hear I'm not the only one. Now to get off mybuttand get on with it . . . Matt, Get after it and don't be afraid to make mistakes - that's how we alllearn. You have no idea how bad my first rod was. Over tempered, lousynodes, crappy varnish job and it was crooked, but it caught fish. The nextones were better and better. Now I'm getting fairly picky, but there arestill errors and I'm working @ reducing the number of them. A young fellow dropped by the other day and we were BSing about rodbuilding and I told him I considered it a good day where I didn't have tocorrect too many of yesterdays mistakes and actually progressed. However the first one turns out - enjoy it. There will be others. Have fun - isn't that what its all about, Don from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Mar 29 23:28:03 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 30Mar 1998 00:29:25 -0400 Subject: test Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from mrj@seanet.com Sun Mar 29 23:50:30 1998 (8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA17324 for; 0800 Subject: RE: Plane If it's blade angle is about 21degrees or so it should do fine. The heavier the better. I don't know too much about Miller Falls but I do know that a really good Stanley G12-020 can be had here in Seattle for about 35 bucks. Assuming this plane is a standard size you could always get a hock blade have even thought of adding lead to the body of mine (I haven't done it, just thought about it.) to increase it's weight. Martin Jensen -----Original Message----- Subject: Plane The other day I went looking for a plane for cutting final taperswith (I already have a Stanley #60 1/2 which some of you say willsuffice for rough planing). I came across a plane in a pawn shop thatlooks (to me) just like a Stanley 9 1/2, but is made by a company calledMillers Falls. It's designated as a No. 16, and looks well-made to myuntrained eye. I figured for 25 bucks I couldn't go too wrong. Cananyone tell me anything about the quality of this plane and whether itis suitable for bamboo work? Thanks in advance for any replies. --Matt CliffordMissoula, Montana from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 30 00:08:21 1998 Subject: Re: varnish At 09:51 PM 3/29/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 98-03-29 11:45:06 EST, you write: The rubber stoppers I mentioned should be available at any hardwarestore,look in the aisle with all the bins of nuts and bolts and such.Tell me more about Clemens brilliance, I've tried most everything I canfind, but haven't run into this yet, it does sound kind of like U-40. Ididn't have mush luck with u-40, the varnish bled under the wraps anddarkend it in bands on each edge.Maybe I didn't do it right. Do you haveany trouble with the wraps cracking, I have this trouble on rods I haveused laquer on, unfortuneatly, the color seems to turn out best withlaquer.Be "talking" to youJohn Channer JohnClemens Brillianc requirs several coats. Directions say to thin to 50- 50(Ithink) with water for the first 2-3 coats, then full strength for a coupleofcoats. With the thin first coats, it seems to wet out the thread quitewelland thus no varnish bleed for those awful dark bands (yes, we all seem tohaveseen them) that require a rewrap. At least when the material is fresh. Incase you are not familiar with Clemens, there tele no is 610-395- 5119,fax610-398-2580, 9:00-5:00 Eastern time. Hope this turns out to be good info. Regards,Richard Richard;Thanks for the info , I'll give it a try.Some colors I would like to usereally need color preserver of some kind.John Channer from saweiss@flash.net Mon Mar 30 00:10:07 1998 Subject: Re: Plane -----Original Message----- Subject: Plane The other day I went looking for a plane for cutting final taperswith (I already have a Stanley #60 1/2 which some of you say willsuffice for rough planing). I came across a plane in a pawn shop thatlooks (to me) just like a Stanley 9 1/2, but is made by a company calledMillers Falls. It's designated as a No. 16, and looks well-made to myuntrained eye. I figured for 25 bucks I couldn't go too wrong. Cananyone tell me anything about the quality of this plane and whether itis suitable for bamboo work? Thanks in advance for any replies. --Matt CliffordMissoula, Montana Another US toolmaker that no longer exists. I have couple of largerMillers Falls bench planes that are well made, comparable to Stanleys.The MF block planes I have seen are similar to the cheaper Stanley modelsand look like they take the same irons. You probably should tune the soleand do a good sharpening. Try it on rough planing first. Steve Weiss from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Mon Mar 30 02:32:03 1998 (METDST) Subject: [Fwd: Coloring blanks] Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. --------------72A7312D57A8 Soory, i`m not in rush, but don`t know if this mail was received: --------------72A7312D57A8 (MET) Subject: Coloring blanks Help wanted! I heard about coloring a blank with ammoniak steam.How that works?What solution i need?It works also with a finished, glued blank?It works alo with brushing the "solution" on the blank, thentempering it in an oven?Different ways? Thans for all answers Stefan-swiss chees & chocolate rodmakerhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau --------------72A7312D57A8-- from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Mar 30 06:51:14 1998 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much Don Just tell them to take the same approach they take to havingSex - just do it. Also to use the same philosophy: Even the worse rod you make will still be good! Or conversely tell them to take the sameapproach to sex they have taken to rodmaking. Chris On Sun, 29 Mar 1998 21:43:04, Don Andersen wrote: At 20:48 29/03/98 -0700, you wrote: Ragnarig wrote: Don Most amazing (and aggravating) to me is all the people who come upand saysomething like, "I've been working on a rod since 1989" or "Well, I'vebeengetting all my tools and fixtures together for a few years, but I justdon'tknow where I'd put the oven." They've obviously got some kind ofdesireto doit but there's a terrific angst associated with it. I went so far as to help one guy make a nice wooden planing form and itjustsat on his bench with a spline in it for about six months. In this casehewas overwhelmed by the perceived need for absolute precision. If they would just get off it and make something... precision comeslater.Perfection, never. But the good ones won't happen until the "less good"oneshave. Come to think of it, this isn't really something for me to be concernedabout,is it? I'm even wondering if I should go ahead and punch the "send"button. Oh, what the heck. My next posting will be more cohesive, I'm sure. Davy Thanks for hitting the "send" button. I finished my wooden forms 2monthsago andI've had this mental block about starting the planing because of theperceivedneed for precision. Glad to hear I'm not the only one. Now to get off mybuttand get on with it . . . Matt, Get after it and don't be afraid to make mistakes - that's how we alllearn. You have no idea how bad my first rod was. Over tempered, lousynodes, crappy varnish job and it was crooked, but it caught fish. The nextones were better and better. Now I'm getting fairly picky, but there arestill errors and I'm working @ reducing the number of them. A young fellow dropped by the other day and we were BSing about rodbuilding and I told him I considered it a good day where I didn't have tocorrect too many of yesterdays mistakes and actually progressed. However the first one turns out - enjoy it. There will be others. Have fun - isn't that what its all about, Don Regards Chris from MMills1@zoomit.sikorsky.com Mon Mar 30 07:27:07 1998 30 MAR 98 08:32:27 EST Subject: stanley plane Hi all, Can someone please tell me the stanley catalog/part number for the9.5 block plane that everybody, except me, seems to know about. Everyhardware store that I go to seems to have what is called a low angle block plane. This unit is an adjustable throat block plane. But it is not 9.5" long or anything else. Is the 9.5 a bench plane or a large block plane. Someone please enlighten me! Thanks,Mark MillsWest Palm Beach ,Fl from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Mar 30 07:37:52 1998 Subject: Re: Plane In a message dated 3/30/98 4:13:56 AM, you wrote: I can't give you chapter and verse on these people, and don't know if theirquality was always good, but I would suggest you buy the plane. Bill Finkbrought one over a couple months ago, and we tuned it up. It was very wellmade, and heavier than the Stanley. The sole took very little effort toflatten, and the blade is quite good. from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Mar 30 08:30:57 1998 Subject: WTD:8'0" Heddon 1-3/4F taper All, I need the taper for a rod rod that I'm restoring - it needs a couple ofscarf repairs. (mid and tip) The rod is an 8' Heddon 1-3/4F. Also, if anyone has a 7' Heddon 51, 31 or 21 taper (a 2 piece rod) Icould use that one too. Thx, Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com/Canerods@aol.com Wishful collector of Gillum and Dickerson rods - owner of Montague, H-Iand Heddon rods from saweiss@flash.net Mon Mar 30 08:50:20 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane -----Original Message----- Subject: stanley plane Hi all,Can someone please tell me the stanley catalog/part number for the 9.5block plane that everybody, except me, seems to know about. Everyhardwarestore that I go to seems to have what is called a low angle block plane.This unit is an adjustable throat block plane. But it is not 9.5" long oranything else. Is the 9.5 a bench plane or a large block plane. Someoneplease enlighten me! Thanks,Mark MillsWest Palm Beach ,Fl The 9 1/2 is a block plane. Current Stanley catalog # 12-920, 6" long,fully adjustable cutter & mouth, made in England.Garrett-Wade sells it, as well as the Record 9 1/2, which is a bit betterquality. Both are in $45-$50 range.www.garrettwade.com1-800-221-2942 Steve Weiss Steve Weiss from SSteinzor@atg.state.vt.us Mon Mar 30 09:07:00 1998 0500 Subject: RE: stanley plane Is there any reason one could not simply use the low angle block plane?I've already got one of those and am somewhat loath to invest $50 in atool I might not need. (Tight budget is why I've decided to buildrather than buy bamboo.) -----Original Message-----From: Dr. Steven A. Weiss [SMTP:saweiss@flash.net]Sent: Monday, March 30, 1998 9:57 AM Subject: Re: stanley plane -----Original Message-----From: MMills1@zoomit.sikorsky.com Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 6:32 AMSubject: stanley plane Hi all,Can someone please tell me the stanley catalog/part number for the9.5block plane that everybody, except me, seems to know about. Everyhardwarestore that I go to seems to have what is called a low angle blockplane.This unit is an adjustable throat block plane. But it is not 9.5"long oranything else. Is the 9.5 a bench plane or a large block plane.Someoneplease enlighten me! Thanks,Mark MillsWest Palm Beach ,Fl The 9 1/2 is a block plane. Current Stanley catalog # 12-920, 6"long,fully adjustable cutter & mouth, made in England.Garrett-Wade sells it, as well as the Record 9 1/2, which is a bitbetterquality. Both are in $45-$50 range.www.garrettwade.com1-800-221-2942 Steve Weiss Steve Weiss from dryfly@erols.com Mon Mar 30 10:15:39 1998 Subject: Re: Plane Matt Clifford wrote: The other day I went looking for a plane for cutting final taperswith (I already have a Stanley #60 1/2 which some of you say willsuffice for rough planing). I came across a plane in a pawn shop thatlooks (to me) just like a Stanley 9 1/2, but is made by a company calledMillers Falls. It's designated as a No. 16, and looks well-made to myuntrained eye. I figured for 25 bucks I couldn't go too wrong. Cananyone tell me anything about the quality of this plane and whether itis suitable for bamboo work? Thanks in advance for any replies. --Matt CliffordMissoula, Montana Make sure you can buy replacement blades. I once saw an old Crafstmanplane that was like a 9 1/2 but the 9 1/2 hock blade would not fit it. Bob from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Mon Mar 30 10:56:01 1998 (METDST) Subject: Signing rods Question: Think sometimes i`m old in mind - i just finished two blanks,one in an tung oil, the other in a waxed finish. Problem, i "forgot" to sign the blank before this finishes!Can i do signing the blanks after this finishes with a felt-pence, and hold this on the surface? Thanks for all helps Stefan from rmoon@ida.net Mon Mar 30 11:33:32 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane Seth it is possible to use the low angle, but I promise you that youwill have more problems than you can imagine. I use my low angle only equivalent is the plane I use 110% of the time. and I have four ofthem. Do yourself a favor and spend the money, It is worth everypenny. Shop around a little. I have seen a wide variation on prices ofa 9 1/2 Ralph from saweiss@flash.net Mon Mar 30 12:09:49 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane -----Original Message----- Subject: RE: stanley plane Is there any reason one could not simply use the low angle block plane?I've already got one of those and am somewhat loath to invest $50 in atool I might not need. (Tight budget is why I've decided to buildrather than buy bamboo.) -----Original Message-----From: Dr. Steven A. Weiss [SMTP:saweiss@flash.net]Sent: Monday, March 30, 1998 9:57 AM Subject: Re: stanley plane -----Original Message-----From: MMills1@zoomit.sikorsky.com Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 6:32 AMSubject: stanley plane Hi all,Can someone please tell me the stanley catalog/part number for the9.5block plane that everybody, except me, seems to know about. Everyhardwarestore that I go to seems to have what is called a low angle blockplane.This unit is an adjustable throat block plane. But it is not 9.5"long oranything else. Is the 9.5 a bench plane or a large block plane.Someoneplease enlighten me! Thanks,Mark MillsWest Palm Beach ,Fl I recently bought a good used plane for $20 from a local tool collector. Theplane was in perfect working condition, but not a collectable modelbecauseit isn't old enough or scarce enough. Lots of these collectors pick upthese "user" tools to trade or sell to guys like us.Good hunting.Steve Weiss from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 30 15:10:42 1998 0000 Subject: Bamboo Building and the Mistique There is some mention about the need to keep the bamboo slips in acontrolled low humidity environment. This does not make alot of sense tome on a practical level although I can see the point on a needlesslyesoteric and retentive level.Once the rod leaves your shop(whether for public or personal use) itwill be subjected to a wide variety of conditions, one of which will bethe high humidity environ of the streamside. If your rod has beenartificially babysat throughout its life what will happen when it isgreeted by the harsh reality of 'life on the streets'.It can be argued that the rod blank has a waterproof finish but thisis not true as even the best varnish most certainly will allow aconsiderable tranpiration of water vapor back and forth.This is a sign I believe of the 'overmistification' (help!) ofrodbuilding. Indeed it has been pointed out that it stalls manyrodbuilders out,this is a shame as there are many common hobbies orpursuits that are MUCH more difficult than building a split cane rod.Even more so with the proliferation of books,videos,classes,ready madeequipment, and ready sources of supply that we have now that were notpresent even 20 years ago. This has lead to the aformentionedpresentation of rodbuilding as being too dificult for the average personwho is handy with tools to achieve. It has also led to a certainpedantic thought trail about how to build a rod that tend to stifle thecreative approach that many would bring to the construction of the rodsbut are afraid to swim against the current of 'politically correct'rodbuilding. As I peruse the groups postings I always appreciate the new approachesthat other members bring to the craft and indeed I have found manyhelpful and interesting solutions to the problems of building the rodsin the posts on the group. Many times the mere voicing of the questionhas led me to an improvement to one problem or another. In conclusion I would encorage all newcomers to building to jump inheadfirst, only in that way will you know what questions to ask andprogress down the road to improving a rod that is truly your own. My ownrods are still evolving and improving to this day which supplies theincentive to build the next one.A.J.Thramerthramer@presys.com ps Terry where are you? from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Mar 30 15:12:26 1998 NAA14904 Subject: Silk Thread Read in the "The Best of The Planing Form" about Pearsall's silk. Anyonehave any comments? F.Y.I. - Bob Marriotts lists this product in theircatalog with a fairly good selection of colors. Also, noticed that "Things Japanese" (source of Silk Thread listed onRodmakers web site) has a product called "COLORHUE" for dyeing silk.Anyone tried using this to match colors or create their own colors forbuilding/restoration? from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Mon Mar 30 15:25:22 1998 with ESMTP id 276 for ;Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:28:37 -0600 Subject: Bamboo culm wall thickness? What wall thickness range should one expect on 2" bamboo culms? Anyresponses are helpful. I am trying to evaluate my first shipment ofbamboo! Thanks. Jim Kubichek from jfoster@gte.net Mon Mar 30 15:49:08 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Building and the Mistique AJ I try to control the humidity of my strips while planing, to some degree( I merely stick them in a capped 1" peice of pvc) because here in texasthe humidity jumps around quite a bit. I agree, i think once the rod iscompleted and i'm fishing it, it gets subjected to a lot of harshness,imho i think that the rod will readjust to the relative humidity whereever the rod is.. my thought about controling it during the planingprocess was a hope that the taper was not moving around (expanding,contracting) in progress a lot. I don't often get the chanch to do a rodstart to finish in one sitting. This is not a religious thing. just athingMake sense.?Jerry from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Mar 30 15:57:22 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bamboo Building and the Mystique the whole idea is to not trap excessive moisture in it when you varnishand how do you know you have your taper right if the bamboo has swollenup with moisture. ----------From: Jerry Foster[SMTP:jfoster@gte.net] Sent: Monday, March 30, 1998 12:47 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo Building and the Mistique AJ I try to control the humidity of my strips while planing, to somedegree( I merely stick them in a capped 1" peice of pvc) because here intexasthe humidity jumps around quite a bit. I agree, i think once the rodiscompleted and i'm fishing it, it gets subjected to a lot of harshness,imho i think that the rod will readjust to the relative humidity whereever the rod is.. my thought about controling it during the planingprocess was a hope that the taper was not moving around (expanding,contracting) in progress a lot. I don't often get the chanch to do arodstart to finish in one sitting. This is not a religious thing. just athingMake sense.?Jerry from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Mar 30 16:16:51 1998 Subject: RE: stanley plane Steven,If your a little short don't even think about spending $45 or $50 on aplane. I must have ten or twelve and haven't spent more than $10 on any ofthem. I like the older "made in USA" Stanley's that can be found in Hockshops & Junk stores everywhere. Just watch for unrepairable knicks andgouges in the soles and with a "little" work you are on your way. I alsoreplace the cap iron with the new "made in England" type because they arealittle longer and tend to hold the blade a little firmer this tends to holddown the chatter. But this is where your costs start to rise, when youstart tuning. One last note on the older stanleys watch where the bladesits on the body of the plane. In the last years of making them in the U Sthey started to cheap out and some were set on the adjusting lever insteadof the post on the plane body. (these were usually maroon in color) Gary PS Now that I've gone on this long another word to the wise would be tomake sure you like the feel of a Stanley. All brands fit your hand alittle differently. At 10:07 AM 3/30/98 -0500, you wrote:Is there any reason one could not simply use the low angle block plane?I've already got one of those and am somewhat loath to invest $50 in atool I might not need. (Tight budget is why I've decided to buildrather than buy bamboo.) from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Mar 30 17:03:36 1998 PAA18744 Subject: J.C. Boegeman Lathe Is anyone using a J.C. Boegeman Micro Lathe? Any comments on quality,ease of use, what features & tools to buy would be very muchappreciated. Thinking of purchasing one and it looks a little cheaperthan the Sherline. But in this world you usually get what you pay for. Best RegardsChris Wohlford from royera@sprynet.com Mon Mar 30 17:33:09 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo culm wall thickness? Jim, I am glad you finally have your cane. Now, is it any good... The wall thickness of 2" poles should range from about 7-15mm at thebottom.It seemed to me that the seven foot poles which I received (and sent sevento you) were all missing the bottom meter or so of the pole. The wallthickness of these poles missing the bottom portion is significantly less,perhaps 5-9mm. This was the same scenario as all of my twelve footpoleslast fall. Some people did not mind, some said they could only makelighterweight rods from them. The density of the power fibers is more importantthan the overall diameter of the pole. Some people would love to have 3inch poles but the power fibers in those are often not as dense as they arein the 2 inch poles. I sent the poles to you because they looked clean, and nicely coloured.Unfortunately, I did not take the time to learn enough about what it is thatyou intend to build. It may be the case that they will work only forsmaller weight rods. The twelve foot poles do have the bottom section.When I mentioned sending you the seven foot poles as an alternative, I wasnot aware that they were missing the bottom portion and I apologize. Letmeknow if these poles are not sufficient for your needs. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx -----Original Message----- Subject: Bamboo culm wall thickness? What wall thickness range should one expect on 2" bamboo culms? Anyresponses are helpful. I am trying to evaluate my first shipment ofbamboo! Thanks. Jim Kubichek from Fishstink@aol.com Mon Mar 30 17:46:58 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread CJ,I have used Pearsall's "Naples"a few times and like the result. I have onlyused it for tipping as it is a finer diameter thread (mic's out at .004) thanGudebrod's. I buy my thread from Marriott's. The only problem with buyingthread from Marriot's is if they are out of stock with the color you want itcan take them months to receive a shipment. (three months in my case)Marriotsalso carries Pearsall's "marabou". Strange thread as it seems to be doubledand loosely twined, but they have it on sale in thier outlet store at .25 aspool,(black and white only). I bought a few spools because I couldn't passup.25 for anything!Mike from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Mar 30 18:24:01 1998 QAA29608 Subject: Finish O.K. After reading A.J.Thramer latest posting I have one more questionthen I'll shut up. Has anyone had any experience using a product called"Sikkens Cetol." Apparently boat builders & owners are leaving behindSpar Varnish, Poly. & Oils in droves for this product. They say it lastslonger and is more durable. In fact, they are quite fanatical about it.Not sure how it would work on bamboo but from what I've heard it tendsto darken teak a little more than varnish, that's all I know. Kind ofexpensive too. Around $30 quart. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that outthere. I dream about having my finishes last 100+ years. Have seen whatcan happen to Spar Varnishes over time and this worries me. Regards,Chris Wohlford from channer@frontier.net Mon Mar 30 18:27:33 1998 Subject: Re: J.C. Boegeman Lathe At 03:06 PM 3/30/98 -0800, you wrote:Is anyone using a J.C. Boegeman Micro Lathe? Any comments on quality,ease of use, what features & tools to buy would be very muchappreciated. Thinking of purchasing one and it looks a little cheaperthan the Sherline. But in this world you usually get what you pay for. Best RegardsChris Wohlford Chris;I have a Bogeman lathe and so far it seems just fine. I got the pulley set,motor and tool set from them when I ordered it, I guess I didn't need allthe tools because I only use 1 of them. I just use it for turning ferrulestations and grips and reel seat stations, I don't know if it is accurateenough to turn ferrules with or not, I'm a carpenter, not a machinist. Aslong as I can buy good hardware for a good price I will let someone that isgood at it make those parts. If you are going to turn your grips after theyare glued to the rod and use the live center, then you have to stretch thehead and tail stocks all the way out to the end of the rail. I just use the3-jaw chuck(I forgot, I got that with it, too.)without the tailstock and itworks o.k.I think if I was planning on eventually making my own ferrulesand reel seats I would take a seious look at either a full size lathe, ormaybe Grizzly's small lathe. I think it is about $500.00 and it will cutthreads, the Bogeman won't.Hope this helps.John Channer from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 30 18:35:33 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Building and the Mistique Jerry Foster wrote: AJ I try to control the humidity of my strips while planing, to some degree( I merely stick them in a capped 1" peice of pvc) because here in texasthe humidity jumps around quite a bit. I agree, i think once the rod iscompleted and i'm fishing it, it gets subjected to a lot of harshness,imho i think that the rod will readjust to the relative humidity whereever the rod is.. my thought about controling it during the planingprocess was a hope that the taper was not moving around (expanding,contracting) in progress a lot. I don't often get the chanch to do a rodstart to finish in one sitting. This is not a religious thing. just athingMake sense.?JerryHi Jerry,Yes it does make sense if you have to plane the rod over an extendedperiod of time. My rods are usually heat treated, planed and glued upover a two or three evening time span.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 30 18:42:01 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Finish C.J. Wohlford wrote: O.K. After reading A.J.Thramer latest posting I have one more questionthen I'll shut up. Has anyone had any experience using a product called"Sikkens Cetol." Apparently boat builders & owners are leaving behindSpar Varnish, Poly. & Oils in droves for this product. They say it lastslonger and is more durable. In fact, they are quite fanatical about it.Not sure how it would work on bamboo but from what I've heard it tendsto darken teak a little more than varnish, that's all I know. Kind ofexpensive too. Around $30 quart. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that outthere. I dream about having my finishes last 100+ years. Have seen whatcan happen to Spar Varnishes over time and this worries me. Regards,Chris WohlfordHi Chris,I will most definately look into that type of finish. This constantquestioning of the status quo is what I think building is all about.A.J.Thramer from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Mar 30 19:03:31 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo culm wall thickness? I just received another order (12 foot poles) from Andy today, and atinitial glance, they look very good. Andy has been great, and has beenwilling to work with me on part of an order that had thinner wallthicknessthan I was hoping. This last shipment looks very good. I will be goingthrough it tonight, and will report back to the list on thickness,diameter,and power fiber thickness if I can determine. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Andy Royer Subject: Re: Bamboo culm wall thickness?Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 3:33 PM Jim, I am glad you finally have your cane. Now, is it any good... The wall thickness of 2" poles should range from about 7-15mm at thebottom.It seemed to me that the seven foot poles which I received (and sentsevento you) were all missing the bottom meter or so of the pole. The wallthickness of these poles missing the bottom portion is significantlyless,perhaps 5-9mm. This was the same scenario as all of my twelve footpoleslast fall. Some people did not mind, some said they could only makelighterweight rods from them. The density of the power fibers is moreimportantthan the overall diameter of the pole. Some people would love to have 3inch poles but the power fibers in those are often not as dense as theyarein the 2 inch poles. I sent the poles to you because they looked clean, and nicely coloured.Unfortunately, I did not take the time to learn enough about what it isthatyou intend to build. It may be the case that they will work only forsmaller weight rods. The twelve foot poles do have the bottom section.When I mentioned sending you the seven foot poles as an alternative, Iwasnot aware that they were missing the bottom portion and I apologize. Letmeknow if these poles are not sufficient for your needs. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx -----Original Message-----From: jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 1:31 PMSubject: Bamboo culm wall thickness? What wall thickness range should one expect on 2" bamboo culms? Anyresponses are helpful. I am trying to evaluate my first shipment ofbamboo! Thanks. Jim Kubichek from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Mon Mar 30 19:23:19 1998 mailfep3-hme1 via dsmap-1.22 0800 Subject: Re: stanley plane type="54455854"; Seth Steinzor wrote: Is there any reason one could not simply use the low angle blockplane?I've already got one of those and am somewhat loath to invest $50 in a tool I might not need. (Tight budget is why I've decided to buildrather than buy bamboo.) Seth: You can try to use a low angle block plane (like a stanley 60 1/2) foryour work. But I wouldn't. Reason: The 'low angle of attack' will havea tendency to 'lift' the nodes. Few things are as frustrating as seeinggood cane ruined by tearing the nodes all to hell. As some recentthreads have alluded -- a stanley 9 1/2 with a 'razor sharp' bladebeveled to 35 degrees will slice through those nodes quite nicely. Checkout flea markets and antique shows for antique tool dealers. Thosefellows should have stanley 9 1/2's for around $25 - $30 dollars. Find aclean one with a good blade and learn how to sharpen it -- you'll be wayahead of the game.Trying to cut corners with your planes or planingforms will bring you mucho disappointment -- since these are the mostimportant tools for building cane rods. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Mar 30 19:27:49 1998 Subject: Re: Finish Dear Chris I have used Cetol extensively, although not on rods, and can definitelyrecommend it for teak! It does seem to last longer on resinous/dense hardwoods and is perfectlyfineon spruce and other light density woods. Be advised, however, that it dardens these latter woods more thansomewhat.This may be a blessing if you are looking for a nice honey- color onunflamedcane. On the other hand there is a possibility of uneven coating color, dueto the dark tint. This shouldn't be much of a problem for "dip-tubers", thatis unless the cost makes you go all Don Knotts. My strong recommendation is that you do extensive testing with thisproduct onbamboo rods and let me know how it goes! Seriously, I believe there's apartial can in the boatshop, so I will try it on a scrap butt. Thanks for theinspiration. Helps to balance out the exaspiration :-) Oh, one more thing: You want to take some pains with surface preparation. Iseem to recall that scratches in light-toned woods seem to show throughthisstuff real good. Bamboo might be even worse. Word to the wise. Davy Davy from MasjC1@aol.com Mon Mar 30 19:45:16 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Building and the Mistique A.J. I'm working on my first rod. About a month ago I had straightened andflattened my strips and planed to the initial 60 degree angle. I then putthemaside until the next weekend when I could resume work. Much to mydismayseveral strips were no longer straight and the nodes had risen. Myassumptionwas that the humidity here in Houston had caused the dimensional changes.So Idecided to build a heat box. I was afraid to use the oven as a thermostatgonebad could result in some very high temperatures and is a potential sourceoffire. I thought a box with a light bulb would work. I started with some kiln dried lumber and assembled the box with a 95wattlight bulb in the bottom as a heat source. The box is a steady 100 degrees.Unfortunately the first time I opened the door it would not close. Thedimensional change was approximately 1/4 inch between the door and theframe.Off came the door. Out came the plane. Fixed. I let it sit with the light onall week. The following week, same problem. Same solution only this timeI hadto remount the latch as I had planed down to the outside mounting screws.Thispast weekend things were better only 1/16 inch. Planned some more. Itnowlooks like I might have removed enough moisture, and wood, after threeweeksthat the door will now work. I will see if I can get back to rod buildingthisweek end. Mark "hate living in a swamp" Cole from CALucker@aol.com Mon Mar 30 19:48:36 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread I think you mean you used Pearsalls Gossamer. Naples is the big threadthatcomes in only a few colors and is even too large for modern steelheadflies.Pearsalls Marabou is sort of a floss.Chris from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Mar 30 19:49:30 1998 Subject: Re: Re: And we can't agree on much To all beginners,I had my tools and cane and a light bulb oven (don't ask) and I justcouldn't get started 'til I saw a video of Garrison splitting cane- slam,bang,crunch and I thought "Hell, I can do that!" and I've been going downhill eversince. Don't let the mystic surrounding this silly game hold you back. Asyougo along you'll find that the things you knew were true just ain't so anymore. The learning curve is part of the joy in our endeavors.Regards,Hank. from CALucker@aol.com Mon Mar 30 19:49:31 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread I actually wrote that silk thread article for Dick Sherman to hand out attheBritish Columbia Conclave several years back. I have yet to find anythingtobeat Pearsalls. I still endorse it. It takes a lot longer to wrap a rod, butPearsalls is so tight that it looks great when varnished.Incidentally, Pearsalls Sherry Spinner is a great replacement for Paynebrownwhich is most commonly replaced with Java Beige (Corticelli 5115).Chris Lucker from thramer@presys.com Mon Mar 30 20:01:12 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Building and the Mistique(aka swampman) Masj C1 wrote: A.J. I'm working on my first rod. About a month ago I had straightened andflattened my strips and planed to the initial 60 degree angle. I then putthemaside until the next weekend when I could resume work. Much to mydismayseveral strips were no longer straight and the nodes had risen. Myassumptionwas that the humidity here in Houston had caused the dimensionalchanges. So Idecided to build a heat box. I was afraid to use the oven as a thermostatgonebad could result in some very high temperatures and is a potentialsource offire. I thought a box with a light bulb would work. I started with some kiln dried lumber and assembled the box with a 95wattlight bulb in the bottom as a heat source. The box is a steady 100degrees.Unfortunately the first time I opened the door it would not close. Thedimensional change was approximately 1/4 inch between the door andthe frame.Off came the door. Out came the plane. Fixed. I let it sit with the light onall week. The following week, same problem. Same solution only thistime I hadto remount the latch as I had planed down to the outside mountingscrews. Thispast weekend things were better only 1/16 inch. Planned some more. Itnowlooks like I might have removed enough moisture, and wood, after threeweeksthat the door will now work. I will see if I can get back to rod buildingthisweek end. Mark "hate living in a swamp" ColeHi Mark,This has been enlightening for me to see what other builders have togo through concerning dimensional changes in their bamboo strips.In western Oregon where I build the summers are dry and the wintersare very humid(when is it not raining?) but the problem dissapears whenthe room is heated even slightly. I didn't know I had it so good untilnow.About the 'swamp' thing:) I can't think of a more difficultenvironment to be hampered with, rodbuilding presents enoughdifficulties without Mother Nature adding to the difficulties.A.J.Thramer from Fishstink@aol.com Mon Mar 30 20:18:23 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread ChrisThe spool says "Naples" on it. I haven't tried "Gossamer" but I hear its'goodstuff.Mike from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Mar 30 20:18:32 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Building and the Mistique A.J.,Well said. I tried to voice similar thoughts on another post but you hitthe nail on the head.Regards,Hank. from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Mar 30 20:21:19 1998 (206.186.6.177) Subject: Re: Finish Is Cetol pigmented? I believe it is?Spar varnish is not for flyrods, it is far too soft. Try a a good interiorpolyurathane such as Valspar it is good and hard and will not soften theaction.Terry C.J. Wohlford wrote: O.K. After reading A.J.Thramer latest posting I have one more questionthen I'll shut up. Has anyone had any experience using a product called"Sikkens Cetol." Apparently boat builders & owners are leaving behindSpar Varnish, Poly. & Oils in droves for this product. They say it lastslonger and is more durable. In fact, they are quite fanatical about it.Not sure how it would work on bamboo but from what I've heard it tendsto darken teak a little more than varnish, that's all I know. Kind ofexpensive too. Around $30 quart. Anyway, just thought I'd throw that outthere. I dream about having my finishes last 100+ years. Have seen whatcan happen to Spar Varnishes over time and this worries me. Regards,Chris Wohlford from jsbond@inforamp.net Mon Mar 30 21:25:46 1998 Subject: Canadian Binding thread I noticed some postings regarding "glaze (or glace) cotton thread" lastweek. I purchased 3600 metres of 12/4 thread in natural for $21.00 CDN. Thispriceincludes all taxes. The source is Cansew at 28 Apex Rd in Toronto. This is a supply house forthe garment trade. JBJames Bond, Toronto, Canada Fax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Mar 30 21:48:56 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Dear Chris Evidently I haven't been paying close enough attention. You say you do usePearsall's Gossamer, right? If so, where are you getting it? This is thesame stuff I used to use when tying fancy wet flies, right? What size is it compared to A, 00 etc? Can you get it in the full range ofcolors? Do you know how its strength/weave compares to other brands? Howdoes the cost stack up? Sure would appreciate further info. I recall this stuff had great color. Thanks,Davy from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Mar 30 22:02:33 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread In a message dated 98-03-30 16:19:13 EST, you write: CJ and Mike : I've tried Pearsalls Gossamer, like it and recommend it. When Ilast purchased it, the thread size was advertised as 4/0, but seemed a bitlarger than old fly tying silk of that size. The thread takes colorpreserving quite well, also. BTW, do you have an 800 # for Marriotts? Would like to have one of theircatalogs. Thanks,Richard Tyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Mar 30 22:07:56 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane In a message dated 98-03-30 17:22:03 EST, you write: Steven - another item to watch for on the older planes is the toothedadjusting cam. I have one that has severely worn and distorted teeth andthusis not operable.Regards,Richard Ps - Anyone know who might have such a part available? from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Mar 30 22:33:25 1998 UAA08191 Subject: Re: Canadian Binding thread I also recently purchased some glace cotton thread from ATS (AtlantaThread &Supply) 1-800-847-1001.Sizes 16/4 & 24/4 available in White, Natural, Black @ around $19.00 eachfor4800 yards. FYI - natural is a few bucks cheaper. Hope this helps. RegardsChris Wohlford James Bond wrote: I noticed some postings regarding "glaze (or glace) cotton thread" lastweek. I purchased 3600 metres of 12/4 thread in natural for $21.00 CDN. Thispriceincludes all taxes. The source is Cansew at 28 Apex Rd in Toronto. This is a supply houseforthe garment trade. JBJames Bond, Toronto, CanadaFax (416) 444-8380E-Mail jsbond@inforamp.net from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Mar 30 22:38:38 1998 UAA08522 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Richard ,800 number for Marriotts is 1-800-535-6633 or go to their web site athttp://www.bobmarriotts.com. Catalog costs a few bucks but I think theygive youa coupon for the cost. Just recieved the latest catalog a few days ago. Best RegardsChris Wohlford Fallcreek9 wrote: In a message dated 98-03-30 16:19:13 EST, you write: have any comments? F.Y.I. - Bob Marriotts lists this product in theircatalog with a fairly good selection of colors. CJ and Mike : I've tried Pearsalls Gossamer, like it and recommend it. When Ilast purchased it, the thread size was advertised as 4/0, but seemed abitlarger than old fly tying silk of that size. The thread takes colorpreserving quite well, also. BTW, do you have an 800 # for Marriotts? Would like to have one of theircatalogs. Thanks,Richard Tyree from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Mar 30 22:41:44 1998 UAA08710 Subject: Re: stanley plane Richard,Someone once sent me the following info: For parts contact one of thefollowingtwo full-service parts guys. West Coasters can contact Pete "I keep thebest andpart the rest" Niederberger at (415) 924-8403 after 5 p.m. Pacific time. EastCoasters contact Chuck Hegedus at (404) 974-7508 (He may go south forthewinter). Have not done business with either one of these guys but you cangivethem a try if you like. Hope this helps. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Fallcreek9 wrote: In a message dated 98-03-30 17:22:03 EST, you write: sits on the body of the plane. >> Steven - another item to watch for on the older planes is the toothedadjusting cam. I have one that has severely worn and distorted teeth andthusis not operable.Regards,Richard Ps - Anyone know who might have such a part available? from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Mar 30 22:53:56 1998 Subject: Re: Sherry Spinner I was under the impression that this color was no longer produced. But thepearsalls in the colors I do use is a wonderful silk for wrapping. Fly andField in Glen Ellyn IL is my source, I don't recall their website address tho.They always have a good supply but it kinda freaks them out when I tellthemwhat I use it for...poor guys are addicted to plastic. Hoffhines from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Mar 30 23:00:57 1998 VAA10274 Subject: Re: Finish Terry,I also use Interlux Clipper Clear Varnish (which is a Polyurethane Varnishwith UV protection) and I like it but I am kind of curious why yourecommendan Interior Poly. My experience has been that it becomes brittle and crackswith prolonged exposure to sunlight. For instance this can be seen oninteriorwindow sills and floors that have direct exposure to sunlight. Also, I don'tknow if Cetol is pigmented. Forgive me but I'm not really sure as to whatpigments are. I had always thought that pigments are added to letexteriorwood expand & contract (due to heat & cold) and as of lately provide forUVprotection. Hope I don't sound negative here. I really do appreciate yourinput. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Is Cetol pigmented? I believe it is?Spar varnish is not for flyrods, it is far too soft. Try a a good interiorpolyurathane such as Valspar it is good and hard and will not soften theaction.Terry from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Mar 30 23:36:31 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo putters Has anybody had any experience in making golf clubs with bamboo shafts?I knowGarrison was first exploring this before getting "sidetracked' into flyrods.Are there tapers out there, and sources for hardware? Just curious... Rob Hoffhines from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Mon Mar 30 23:38:32 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id WAA03212 for Subject: Re: Plane TSmithwick wrote: In a message dated 3/30/98 4:13:56 AM, you wrote: Millers Falls. >> I can't give you chapter and verse on these people, and don't know if theirquality was always good, but I would suggest you buy the plane. Bill Finkbrought one over a couple months ago, and we tuned it up. It was verywellmade, and heavier than the Stanley. The sole took very little effort toflatten, and the blade is quite good. Thanks for all your responses. I bought the plane and the sole flattenedbeautifully with emery cloth taped to plte glass. Tested it on some scrapbamboo and it seems to rough plane well (I'll find out about finish worksoonenough). Incidentally, I compared it to a 9 1/2, and it is indeedsignificantly heavier. from KDLoup@aol.com Tue Mar 31 00:02:24 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane Richard,Garrett Wade carries replacement parts for Stanley planes. Maybe theycan help. Kurt Loup from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Mar 31 00:12:20 1998 Tue, 31 Mar 1998 14:12:12 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Bamboo putters On Tue, 31 Mar 1998, Nodewrrior wrote: Has anybody had any experience in making golf clubs with bambooshafts? I knowGarrison was first exploring this before getting "sidetracked' intoflyrods.Are there tapers out there, and sources for hardware? Just curious... Rob Hoffhines Sounds like there are some oversized rods around you could use ;-). Maybe Garrisons first rods were undersized golf club shafts?Just kidding. Tony/***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from saweiss@flash.net Tue Mar 31 00:26:33 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: stanley plane In a message dated 98-03-30 17:22:03 EST, you write: sits on the body of the plane. >> Steven - another item to watch for on the older planes is the toothedadjusting cam. I have one that has severely worn and distorted teeth andthusis not operable.Regards,Richard Ps - Anyone know who might have such a part available?Richard,check tool collectors, sometimes they may have a junker that can becannibalized.Steve Weiss from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Mar 31 04:53:31 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo putters In a message dated 98-03-31 00:38:42 EST, you write: Dear Rob The taper I most often use is "Old Horrocks-Ibbbotson 9-footer buttsection"as I know a guy who's got a barrel of "repair sections", few of which willever be part of a rod again. He doesn't like to give up butts for thispurpose, but I do him favors. Dark stains from the feet of the stripper can be covered with a cunninglittletartan wrap or somesuch. If you must build a new section, I think most of the ready-made putterheadshave a hosel of about .300" i.d., (which corresponds nicely to the H-I lowerjoint, by the way) but my strong recommendation is that you try to find anoldone and use your time at the planing form in making rods. I just checked and Golfsmith has a website @ golfsmith.com. They've gotheads, grips- all that stuff. Good luck,Davy from channer@frontier.net Tue Mar 31 07:52:12 1998 Subject: blackening chrome Anyone know a way to blacken a dull chrome perfection stripper ??John Channer from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Mar 31 10:17:45 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo culm wall thickness? I measured my shipment last night, and it looks pretty good from what Icantell. Thickest wall is at .424" and a diameter of 2.4" at the but end. This had a thickness of .232" at the tip. Thinnest was .294" at the but,but most were in the .36" to .38" range for thickness. Not sure on thedepth of power fibers, though they looked deeper than last shipment. Hopethis helps. I wasnt to thank Andy for being so great to work with. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Robert Clarke Subject: Re: Bamboo culm wall thickness?Date: Monday, March 30, 1998 5:01 PM I just received another order (12 foot poles) from Andy today, and atinitial glance, they look very good. Andy has been great, and has beenwilling to work with me on part of an order that had thinner wallthicknessthan I was hoping. This last shipment looks very good. I will be goingthrough it tonight, and will report back to the list on thickness,diameter,and power fiber thickness if I can determine. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Mar 31 10:50:36 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: And we can't agree on much Hank, is that a video that is purchasable? I just got Wayne's and it is fantastic so far (though I have only been through a part of the first tape). Seeing the work done on video really does help. While all I have done is some test splits (I still need to make a rough planing form and am still saving for steel planing forms), Wayne's instructions and attention to detail really help take some of the insecurity out of taking the next step. Though I guess until you've done it the first time (like anything else) you really don't know what to expect. I certainly won't start on the best culm. If I look at it logically (not always easy), bamboo is relatively cheap so all I would really waste through mistakes is time....and even then I would be gaining experience, so the time I "wasted" would still have been worthwhile, right? I can rationalize anything.... Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much Author: at Tcpgate To all beginners,I had my tools and cane and a light bulb oven (don't ask) and I justcouldn't get started 'til I saw a video of Garrison splitting cane- slam,bang,crunch and I thought "Hell, I can do that!" and I've been going downhill eversince. Don't let the mystic surrounding this silly game hold you back. Asyougo along you'll find that the things you knew were true just ain't so anymore. The learning curve is part of the joy in our endeavors.Regards,Hank. from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Tue Mar 31 10:52:45 1998 (METDST) Subject: E-mail from Bellinger Hi teachers! Can you give me the e-mail adress from Al Bellinger? ThanksStefan from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Mar 31 11:05:51 1998 Subject: RE: E-mail from Bellinger I don't think they have one but here is their URL: http://www.oregonlink.com/bellinger/index.html -----Original Message-----From: gespliesst@bluewin.ch [SMTP:gespliesst@bluewin.ch]Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 7:48 PM Subject: E-mail from Bellinger Hi teachers! Can you give me the e-mail adress from Al Bellinger? ThanksStefan from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Mar 31 12:01:43 1998 Subject: Re: E-mail from Bellinger URL http://www.shofftackle.come-mail info@shofftackle.com Gary At 05:47 PM 3/31/98 -0800, you wrote:Hi teachers! Can you give me the e-mail adress from Al Bellinger? ThanksStefan from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Mar 31 12:14:32 1998 Subject: RE: E-mail from Bellinger Stefan,Sorry I gave you the wrong info this is correct.Gary At 11:05 AM 3/31/98 -0600, you wrote:I don't think they have one but here is their URL: http://www.oregonlink.com/bellinger/index.html -----Original Message-----From: gespliesst@bluewin.ch [SMTP:gespliesst@bluewin.ch]Sent: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 7:48 PM Subject: E-mail from Bellinger Hi teachers! Can you give me the e-mail adress from Al Bellinger? ThanksStefan from CALucker@aol.com Tue Mar 31 12:15:43 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Fortunately, I travel to England and Scotland every year, well at leastuntilwe had our son, that is. I would go to Farlows, Hardy, John Dickson & Son,and fly fishing shop we'd happen on to in small villages. I would buy quiteabit of Pearsalls in some of the rarer shades (Sherry Spinner is one ofthem)and all but one package of each color of seal fur I could find. I don't wantyto be accused of being the carpetbagging American. When I did buy Pearsalls and other soft hackle materials in the late 1970'sthrough the mid 1980's I got my stuff through the famous fly tyingmaterialsdistributor Veniard. They are located in Croydon, just south of London. Theyhad an extensive catalogue of materials, such as jackdaw, golden plover,snipe, and my favorite -- moorhen. I'm sorry I do not have their number,butthe 00 operator will give it to you.ChrisPS from CALucker@aol.com Tue Mar 31 12:20:36 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Regarding Pearsalls silk, I forgot to add that Gossamer is about 4/0, but Ihave found some plastic spool Gossamer that leans toward 3/0. Pearsallsswitched to plastic spools for Gossamer some time in the early 1980's.Naples is somewhat larger in diameter -- perhaps even as large as size A,which is really too large for a neatly-wrapped rod, IMO. Sue Burgess, if her mail order company is still around, should have a goodselection of Pearsalls. Does anyone remember her address? She wasn't inCroydon also, was she?Chris from CALucker@aol.com Tue Mar 31 12:26:07 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo putters You can buy golf club hardware from Ralph Maltby's GolfWorks (800) 848-8358.This is also a good place to buy golf shaft epoxy - the stuff I use to setferrules when I don't use pliobond. Can you imagine the stress thatattacksthe bond between a golf club head and the end of a shaft?Chris from flyrod@artistree.com Tue Mar 31 13:15:27 1998 LAA23306 Subject: Silk Thread Update Well, I guess its good we are having this discussion. Just talked toAnglersWorkshop and they told me Gudebrod has discontinued their Silk Threadline.Moment of silence..... Now for some good news they (Anglers Workshop) docarrytheir own line of silk thread. Don't know how good it is but ordered someto tryout. Bob Marriotts had all the colors of Pearsall in stock (17 colors total).Fly& Field (http://www.flyfield.com/) has 10 colors in stock. Also very niceguys.Be warned that this thread is sold in small 45 meter spools at around$3.00 ea.Ilike the look of this stuff. Very fine wraps. Wish they had more colors, butthat's the same old story. Anyway hope this is of some help. Best RegardsChris Wohlford P.S. Hoffhines, Thanks for the tip about Fly & Field. They were raving aboutthenew Bamboo Rod Magazine. You might have finally converted them! Nodewrrior wrote: I was under the impression that this color was no longer produced. Butthepearsalls in the colors I do use is a wonderful silk for wrapping. Fly andField in Glen Ellyn IL is my source, I don't recall their website addresstho.They always have a good supply but it kinda freaks them out when I tellthemwhat I use it for...poor guys are addicted to plastic. Hoffhines from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Tue Mar 31 13:35:15 1998 with ESMTP id 313 for ;Tue, 31 Mar 1998 13:38:55 -0600 Subject: thread? I don't really want to start a long thread here or challenge anyone'spractices but....aside from the very important traditional role thatsilk thread has served over the years for bamboo rod building and itsbeauty, is there any reason not to use nylon thread for guide wraps?Will nylon serve the function as well or is there a real practicaladvantange to using silk? Jim Kubichek from flyrod@artistree.com Tue Mar 31 13:50:58 1998 LAA26334 Subject: Scraping Plane Insert Now this is an ingenious solution. Could not justify the cost in picking uptheLie-Nielen Scraper (especially since my wife wants a new dishwasher - guess I'mnot doing a good enough job on the dishes) Anyway, I just picked up aVeritasScraping Plane Insert (about $25.00). This insert fits into a #4 through #8BenchPlane (Bailey). Darn thing works great! Man, who thinks of these things.Grantedthe bench plane is a lot bigger then the Stanley or Lie- Nielsen scraper butithas the weight and the insert provides for an adjustable depth & angle. Nomorehand scraping, yeah! Sorry, I'm kind of excited. BTW - Saw these at TheJapaneseWoodworker & Garrett Wade. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Mar 31 13:54:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: And we can't agree on much Andy,The video I saw belonged to someone else and if I remember correctlywasnot nearly as instructive as Wayne's. It was about 20 years ago. Someoneelseon the list may know if it's available and worth the cost.Regards,Hank. from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Mar 31 13:57:43 1998 Subject: Re: thread? Jim, I think it has to do with the springiness of Silk vs. Nylon. Myunderstanding is that nylon will cut into bamboo more so than silk. I amsure that others can add more to this than me. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Subject: thread?Date: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 11:33 AM I don't really want to start a long thread here or challenge anyone'spractices but....aside from the very important traditional role thatsilk thread has served over the years for bamboo rod building and itsbeauty, is there any reason not to use nylon thread for guide wraps?Will nylon serve the function as well or is there a real practicaladvantange to using silk? Jim Kubichek from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 31 14:08:23 1998 Subject: Re:Coloring blanks Help wanted!I heard about coloring a blank with ammoniak steam.How that works?What solution i need?It works also with a finished, glued blank?It works alo with brushing the "solution" on the blank, thentempering it in an oven?Different ways? I've been waiting for someone else to answer this, since I'venever done it myself, but we went over this a couple of monthsago on this list. The basic process is to get some clear plastic tubing long enough and of the right diameter to put your rod section or bamboo strips in. Plug one end, and tape the other end to the opening of your ammonia container and let it situntil it gets to be the right shade of brown you want. Theammonia liquid stays in the bottle, only the fumes go up into the tube. Others mentioned that regular household ammonia isn't strong enough to color the bamboo, and blueprint developing ammonia should be used. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 31 14:36:10 1998 Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much In a message dated 3/31/98 11:58:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: The video I saw belonged to someone else and if I remember correctlywasnot nearly as instructive as Wayne's. It was about 20 years ago.Someone else on the list may know if it's available and worth the cost. Probably the Digger Degere video. You are right, it doesn't showvery much detail, just a brief overview, and I think it's only 20 minutesto a half hour long. It's okay if you never have made a rod before, buta waste of money if you are going to get or have gotten Wayne'svideo. It's even a waste if you have gotten the Garrison or Cattanachbook. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 31 14:55:25 1998 Subject: Re: thread? In a message dated 3/31/98 11:39:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us writes: I don't really want to start a long thread here or challenge anyone'spractices but....aside from the very important traditional role thatsilk thread has served over the years for bamboo rod building and itsbeauty, is there any reason not to use nylon thread for guide wraps?Will nylon serve the function as well or is there a real practicaladvantange to using silk? Nylon thread stretches more than silk, and you can build upquite a bit of force on the blank with the thread if you wrap with too much tension. But, it's less critical on a solidbamboo blank than on a graphite blank. If you are used towrapping graphite rods, the same tension should be usedon a cane rod. readily available. For following tradition, and for appearance, silkis better. Silk lays flatter and is readily smoothed over with aburnishing tool. I use silk. If Gudebrod is discontinuing it's silkthread, I better go lay in a supply. That's the thread I use. Darryl Hayashida from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Mar 31 14:58:06 1998 (205.236.248.63) Subject: Re: Finish Cris,90% of a rods life is tucked away in a an aluminum tube, the amount ofsunlightitreceives is very small. Spar varnishes are designed to be soft so that theycanwithstand the rigors of temperature and humidity changes on articles leftoutsideall year round.Pigment is colour and from the pictures I have seen in boating ads forCetolyourflyrod will look like a red barn!Terry C.J. Wohlford wrote: Terry,I also use Interlux Clipper Clear Varnish (which is a PolyurethaneVarnishwith UV protection) and I like it but I am kind of curious why yourecommendan Interior Poly. My experience has been that it becomes brittle andcrackswith prolonged exposure to sunlight. For instance this can be seen oninteriorwindow sills and floors that have direct exposure to sunlight. Also, Idon'tknow if Cetol is pigmented. Forgive me but I'm not really sure as to whatpigments are. I had always thought that pigments are added to letexteriorwood expand & contract (due to heat & cold) and as of lately provide forUVprotection. Hope I don't sound negative here. I really do appreciate yourinput. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Is Cetol pigmented? I believe it is?Spar varnish is not for flyrods, it is far too soft. Try a a good interiorpolyurathane such as Valspar it is good and hard and will not soften theaction.Terry from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Tue Mar 31 14:58:23 1998 (8.8.3/8.8.0)with SMTP id OAA00510 for ; Tue, 31 Mar1998 Subject: Re:Coloring blanks To the list: I've heard that the F.E. Thomas Browntone rods were colored chemically. Does anyone know if they used this technique or another? Help wanted!I heard about coloring a blank with ammoniak steam.How that works?What solution i need?It works also with a finished, glued blank?It works alo with brushing the "solution" on the blank, thentempering it in an oven?Different ways? I've been waiting for someone else to answer this, since I'venever done it myself, but we went over this a couple of monthsago on this list. The basic process is to get some clear plastic tubing long enough and of the right diameter to put your rod section or bamboo strips in. Plug one end, and tape the other end to the opening of your ammonia container and let it situntil it gets to be the right shade of brown you want. Theammonia liquid stays in the bottle, only the fumes go up into the tube. Others mentioned that regular household ammonia isn't strong enough to color the bamboo, and blueprint developing ammonia should be used. Darryl Hayashida Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Mar 31 15:03:27 1998 (205.236.248.63) Subject: Re: Bamboo putters Do you like a fast taper or a parabolic taper?Terry Nodewrrior wrote: Has anybody had any experience in making golf clubs with bambooshafts? I knowGarrison was first exploring this before getting "sidetracked' intoflyrods.Are there tapers out there, and sources for hardware? Just curious... Rob Hoffhines from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 31 15:27:18 1998 0000 Subject: Re: E-mail from Bellinger gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: Hi teachers! Can you give me the e-mail adress from Al Bellinger? ThanksStefanAl doesn't have an e-mail addressA.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Tue Mar 31 15:30:00 1998 0000 Subject: Re: thread? jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: I don't really want to start a long thread here or challenge anyone'spractices but....aside from the very important traditional role thatsilk thread has served over the years for bamboo rod building and itsbeauty, is there any reason not to use nylon thread for guide wraps?Will nylon serve the function as well or is there a real practicaladvantange to using silk? Jim KubichekHi Jim, There is no functional reason to use only silk thread, onlytraditionand a smoother appearance. Nylon is stronger and won't rot away likesilk can. The problem is one of the current supply of nylon. To achievea smooth and attractive wrap you have to use 2/0 nylon, the currentproduction of 2/0 looks to me to be merely A with one of the three pliesremoved which results in a 'ropey' look to the wrap. Old production of2/0 was three ply and wrapped quite smooth, the challenge is to find oldproduction of Gudebrod nylon.The above is confined to wraps that are color preserved, although thenylon would also go clear with just varnish the color doesn't seem asvibrant.A.J.Thramer from bjcoch@arkansas.net Tue Mar 31 15:50:40 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id PAA13664 for Subject: Re: stanley plane Seth Steinzor wrote: Is there any reason one could not simply use the low angle block plane?I've already got one of those and am somewhat loath to invest $50 in atool I might not need. (Tight budget is why I've decided to buildrather than buy bamboo.) If your budget is so tight that you can't get proper tools then you need tore- think getting into bamboo rod building! This is not a cheep hobby orprofession! Bryant C. from fiveside@net-gate.com Tue Mar 31 16:04:31 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA20234 for Subject: 3 Pc/ Ferrules Hi Reed and All,Can't help coming back on the subject of multiple ferrules. In my viewthe 1: Ferrules wear out (I fish a lot)2: Ferrules are a nuisance to fit3: Ferrules are expensive4: Ferrules are stiff metallics and take up about 2 inches(4 inches for 3pc) of valid cane flexing length. That's why 1-piecers fish better5: Ferrules come only in 64'ths and can seriously compromize the roddesignat the points where they are fitted6: Ferrules lead to dry rot on older classic rods7: Ferrules seem to cause stress concentrations in unpredictable places On the other side, I've never tried to take a one-piecer on an airplane ora pack trip. But 2-piecers seem to work. Bill from fer@surfplanet.com Tue Mar 31 16:28:33 1998 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA18010 for; Tue, 31 Mar 1998 22:28:44 GMT Subject: Warning advice VIRUS ALERT !!!!! To all, If any of you receive an E-mail entitled "WIN A HOLIDAY",DON'T OPEN IT !!!. It would erase all your hard disk.It's a new and very dangerous virus and few people knows it. This warningcamethis morning from Microsoft. Please share this warning advice with allyourInternet friends.BESIDES, don't open any E-mail entitled "RETURNED OR UNABLE TODELIVER". Thisvirus would stay in your computer and would cause malfunction. Regards and take care,Fernando Rada. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 31 16:29:59 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane In a message dated 3/31/98 1:53:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,bjcoch@arkansas.net writes: Seth Steinzor wrote:Is there any reason one could not simply use the low angle block plane?I've already got one of those and am somewhat loath to invest $50 in atool I might not need. (Tight budget is why I've decided to buildrather than buy bamboo.) If your budget is so tight that you can't get proper tools then you need tore- think getting into bamboo rod building! This is not a cheep hobby orprofession! Bryant C. Hey Bryant! Lighten up! (I'm saying this in an entirely friendly fashion).The reason I started building cane rods was the exact reason Sethgives. Nothing wrong with asking about alternatives. We even haveaccomplished rod makers out there that are using the low angleplane. I started heat gunning and flaming my culms because I couldn't afford an oven. I developed my "drip tube" because I couldn'tafford the stepper motors and electronics for a regular pull dip tube.You would probably laugh if you saw my binding machine - all handmade, but it works. It CAN be a cheap hobby if you are clever enough. Darryl Hayashida from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Mar 31 17:04:39 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane At 03:48 PM 3/31/98 -0600, you wrote: If your budget is so tight that you can't get proper tools then you need tore- think getting into bamboo rod building! This is not a cheep hobby orprofession! Bryant C. Bryant,As a hobby I can't think of one that is as inexpensive as rod building.My neighbor builds RC sail boats. His last boat cost nearly $4,500, tolaunch, plus hundreds of hours of work. The guy on the other side golfs.When was the last time you priced a round of golf, not to mention theequipment and the hours involved? All hobbies cost a lot these days butrod building has to be at the lower end of the price scale. Most of thetools can be made and the raw matereials are well within reason. And astohours spent in the shop, it's a hobby, like my neighbors I write them off.I don't think I would term it cheap but, I would say, relitively speakinginexpensive. I can't speak to the to the professional side, like I say itis a hobby for me. Gary from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Mar 31 18:14:59 1998 Subject: Re: thread? RO>Nylon thread stretches more than silk, and you can build upRO>quite a bit of force on the blank with the thread if you wrapRO>with too much tension. But, it's less critical on a solidRO>bamboo blank than on a graphite blank. If you are used toRO>wrapping graphite rods, the same tension should be usedRO>on a cane rod. RO>For practicality nylon is better. It's stronger, lasts longer, and isRO>readily available. For following tradition, and for appearance, silkRO>is better. Silk lays flatter and is readily smoothed over with aRO>burnishing tool. I use silk. If Gudebrod is discontinuing it's silkRO>thread, I better go lay in a supply. That's the thread I use. All, Some of the classic production rods mfg'd after WWII used nylon thread.Phillipson and others used the stuff. Darryl, the last couple of times that I was at Marriott's most of theGudebrod silk thread bins were empty. Try Angler's, Clemens, Netcraftor???? Don Burns from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Mar 31 19:21:43 1998 Subject: Re: Finish Along these same lines, I noticed that Minwax has a new product called"ClearShield" for exterior wood. Does anyone know anything about this? --Rich from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Mar 31 19:24:09 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Is that with or without color preserver (for the Payne thread match)?? --Rich from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Mar 31 19:38:28 1998 Subject: Gudebrod Silk Thread Dropped by Bob Marriott's on the way home to askabout the silk thread. Here's the skinny: Gudebrod wants to be a manufacturer only. They don't even want to wholesale distribute their stuff. Pac Bay is going to pick up the distributorship of the rod building stuff. The guys at Marriott's called Pac Bay to see if they are going to drop any Gudebrod items. The guys at Pac Bay said everything that Gudebrod sold before will be available through them, and yes the silk thread will still be available. The Gudebrod silk thread bins were full at Marriott's. Darryl Hayashida from CALucker@aol.com Tue Mar 31 19:40:40 1998 Subject: Custom Order For Silk Thread The first year the Planing Form Nesletter came out I solicited interestfromrod builders who wanted to place a custom silk thread order. In thosedays,it seems everyone was looking for a 3/0 or 4/0 5115 (Corticelli JavaBeige) Dickersonand so many others used -- it looks like a nice gold with color preserveranda warm chestnut with straight spar.Anyway, I called Belding Corticelli. They said that the minimum order foracustom color in size 3/0 was something like a 2 dozen spools of anunGodlynumber of yards each. The cost for the entire order eight years ago was$740.00. I remember the price per 100 yards of thread worked out to beabout50 cents. Not bad. Are there enough interested people out there this time to give it a go?All we need to decide is the size and color. I have many of the original colors to send the manufacturer as a sample.Chris Lucker from CALucker@aol.com Tue Mar 31 19:43:14 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Payne used color preserver so you have to as well, whether you are usingJavaBeige (Corticelli 5115) or Sherry Spinner (wood spool PearsallsGossamer).While I don''t usually use color preserver, my favorite is VarathaneDiamond-- the water-based exterior varnish that looks like milk when you firstput iton. For a Payne, however, I would stick to lacquer. For an EC Powell, useorange shellac or Violin Varnish over 5175 Antique Gold or Pongee. For aMaslan-made EC Powell, use any old store shellac over that ChestnutBrown 00Gudebrod silk that PHY used to use. It's a shade lighter than the old Orvisstuff.Chris Lucker from LECLAIR123@aol.com Tue Mar 31 20:04:48 1998 Subject: Re: blackening chrome John,There is no way to blacken chrome. You must first strip off thechrome plating with,Hydrochloric (muriatic )acid and water.About 50/50. Afteryouhave stripped off the chrome, then you can balcken the stainless guide withOxidizer. Let me know if you need any more info. Dave LeClair from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Mar 31 20:22:40 1998 Subject: RE:Gudebrod Silk Thread RO>Dropped by Bob Marriott's on the way home to askRO>about the silk thread. Here's the skinny: RO>Gudebrod wants to be a manufacturer only. They don'tRO>even want to wholesale distribute their stuff. Pac Bay isRO>going to pick up the distributorship of the rod buildingRO>stuff. The guys at Marriott's called Pac Bay to see ifRO>they are going to drop any Gudebrod items. The guysRO>at Pac Bay said everything that Gudebrod sold beforeRO>will be available through them, and yes the silk threadRO>will still be available. RO>The Gudebrod silk thread bins were full at Marriott's. RO>Darryl Hayashida Sounds good - maybe we can get PacBay to make the old time jasperthreads again. Don from DocBry8146@aol.com Tue Mar 31 20:24:10 1998 Subject: Re: blackening chrome I don't want to be on your mailing list any more take me off of it !!!!! from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Mar 31 20:32:59 1998 Subject: RE:Custom Order For Silk Thread RO>The first year the Planing Form Nesletter came out I solicited interestfromRO>rod builders who wanted to place a custom silk thread order. In thosedays,RO>it seems everyone was looking for a 3/0 or 4/0 5115 (Corticelli JavaBeige)RO>for wrapping in Payne colors, or 5175 (Antique Gold) the stuff thatDickersoRO>and so many others used -- it looks like a nice gold with colorpreserver anRO>a warm chestnut with straight spar.RO>Anyway, I called Belding Corticelli. They said that the minimum order RO>custom color in size 3/0 was something like a 2 dozen spools of anunGodlyRO>number of yards each. The cost for the entire order eight years agowasRO>$740.00. I remember the price per 100 yards of thread worked out tobe abouRO>50 cents. Not bad.RO>Are there enough interested people out there this time to give it a go?RO>All we need to decide is the size and color.RO>I have many of the original colors to send the manufacturer as asample.RO>Chris Lucker Chris, How can I find out what colors B-C makes (made)? The antique gold is onethat I'd go for. I could be talked into ordering a spool of most colorsif they are TRUELYin 3/0. I just did that with Grahame @all-sizes-are-the-same- no-matter-what-you-thought-youordered-Belvoirdale. (IE: all will arrive size B - if you've ordered 3/0(in 50/3 or maybe 100/3 or ??? metric) (: from ghinde@inconnect.com Tue Mar 31 21:47:41 1998 (may beforged)) 0000 (209.140.67.209) Subject: Re: Silk Thread Update C.J. which sells Kinkame brand silk thread from Japan. I have a color sampledisplay. In it are 223 samples which Kinkame makes. The price per 100yd.spool is a little less than that given by Anglers workshop. At least itwas the last time I bought silk thread.The Thread is high qualityand the colors are great! Size may be a problemif you need 2/0 or 3/0. When I purchased the thread I asked for the smallest diameter Kinkamemadeand recieved size 50 which is similar to size A (maybe a tiny bitthinner). I don't know if Kinkame makes anything thinner now or not. Itdoes come in 100yd spools and the retail store will ship out-of- state(country?). In general, I would rate Kinkame thread to be quite similar toBelding Corticelli size A.The retail store is:BRITEX FABRICS146 Geary Street, San Francisco, California 94108Tel. 392-2910I don't remember if there is a minimum mail order size, I bought 12spools. GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Silk Thread UpdateDate: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 12:18 PM Well, I guess its good we are having this discussion. Just talked toAnglersWorkshop and they told me Gudebrod has discontinued their Silk Threadline.Moment of silence..... Now for some good news they (Anglers Workshop)docarrytheir own line of silk thread. Don't know how good it is but ordered someto tryout. Bob Marriotts had all the colors of Pearsall in stock (17 colorstotal). Fly& Field (http://www.flyfield.com/) has 10 colors in stock. Also very niceguys.Be warned that this thread is sold in small 45 meter spools at around$3.00 ea. Ilike the look of this stuff. Very fine wraps. Wish they had more colors,butthat's the same old story. Anyway hope this is of some help. Best RegardsChris Wohlford P.S. Hoffhines, Thanks for the tip about Fly & Field. They were ravingabout thenew Bamboo Rod Magazine. You might have finally converted them! Nodewrrior wrote: I was under the impression that this color was no longer produced. Butthepearsalls in the colors I do use is a wonderful silk for wrapping. FlyandField in Glen Ellyn IL is my source, I don't recall their websiteaddress tho.They always have a good supply but it kinda freaks them out when I tellthemwhat I use it for...poor guys are addicted to plastic. Hoffhines from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Mar 31 21:52:46 1998 Subject: Re: Warning advice This "warning" is b.s.! E-mail is not a virus carrier. If I didn't open maildemon I wouldn't be able to correct my wife's wrong addresses on her mailthatdidn't post. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Mar 31 21:53:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re: stanley plane Thanks, Darryl,Some of us seem to get a little uptight about this craziness. I'm goingthe expensive rout with a 6" drip-dip tube that takes 7 gal. of poly sparbutI can leave 3 or 4 sticks in the tube to dry at once-it gives me a dust free(almost) drying chamber in my dust laden shop. My finishes have improvedimmeasurably.Regards,Hank. from jczimny@dol.net Tue Mar 31 22:10:41 1998 Subject: Re: Coloring blanks Yep! They used iodine. And nobody in the shop wanted that job.John Zimny TERRY FINGER wrote: To the list: I've heard that the F.E. Thomas Browntone rods were coloredchemically. Does anyone know if they used this technique or another? Help wanted!I heard about coloring a blank with ammoniak steam.How that works?What solution i need?It works also with a finished, glued blank?It works alo with brushing the "solution" on the blank, thentempering it in an oven?Different ways? I've been waiting for someone else to answer this, since I'venever done it myself, but we went over this a couple of monthsago on this list. The basic process is to get some clear plastictubing long enough and of the right diameter to put your rodsection or bamboo strips in. Plug one end, and tape the otherend to the opening of your ammonia container and let it situntil it gets to be the right shade of brown you want. Theammonia liquid stays in the bottle, only the fumes go upinto the tube. Others mentioned that regular householdammonia isn't strong enough to color the bamboo, and blueprintdeveloping ammonia should be used. Darryl Hayashida Terry Fingertfinger@services.state.mo.us from jczimny@dol.net Tue Mar 31 22:12:58 1998 Subject: Silk There is silk available and it is of surpassing quality. It is Japanesein origin and sold by YLI Corp. in Rock Hill NC. The old Hunter'd silkwas the best I've ever used and this is just as good. I believe thatit's the same stuff the Anglers' Workshop sells. It's also available from George Maurer.John Zimny from saweiss@flash.net Tue Mar 31 22:18:06 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread -----Original Message----- Subject: Custom Order For Silk Thread The first year the Planing Form Nesletter came out I solicited interestfromrod builders who wanted to place a custom silk thread order. In thosedays, Chris,Include me, I will probably go for a few spools, depending on coloravailability.Steve Weiss> from saweiss@flash.net Tue Mar 31 22:18:17 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: stanley plane In a message dated 3/31/98 1:53:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,bjcoch@arkansas.net writes: Seth Steinzor wrote:Is there any reason one could not simply use the low angle blockplane?I've already got one of those and am somewhat loath to invest $50 inatool I might not need. (Tight budget is why I've decided to buildrather than buy bamboo.) If your budget is so tight that you can't get proper tools then you needtore- think getting into bamboo rod building! This is not a cheep hobby orprofession! Bryant C. Hey Bryant! Lighten up! (I'm saying this in an entirely friendly fashion).The reason I started building cane rods was the exact reason Sethgives. Nothing wrong with asking about alternatives. We even haveaccomplished rod makers out there that are using the low angleplane. I started heat gunning and flaming my culms because Icouldn't afford an oven. I developed my "drip tube" because I couldn'tafford the stepper motors and electronics for a regular pull dip tube.You would probably laugh if you saw my binding machine - all handmade, but it works. It CAN be a cheap hobby if you are clever enough. Darryl Hayashida I certainly agree with you, Darryl. Your approach can provide someinteresting and rewarding challenges. Also you really pay your dues byworking out different solutions to your problems and ultimately canbecome abetter craftsman.Some people can't fish without having an expensive guide on some famousriver giving them instructions, tying on their flies and landing their fish.Others, like me, want to be off by themselves, working things out at ourownpace and taking our gratifications the way they suit us.Steve Weiss from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Mar 31 22:38:29 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo putters In a message dated 98-03-31 16:09:24 EST, you write: I guess something with a pretty good "hinge" in the butt...I just wanna do afancy putter or two for some friends who don't fish...poor souls... from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Mar 31 22:43:17 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod silk Coren's rod & Reel in Chicago has a supply of their 00 silk. Also alot ofreelseats guides, cork, etc. Eric and Bill are great guys and magicians withaflyrod! (773)631-5202 Tell them I sent you! Rob Hoffhines from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Mar 31 22:48:11 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread I'm into it! preferably the Payne color in 0000. Love to try the antique goldtoo. Rob from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Mar 31 22:50:16 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread Chris, I've also been trying to get silk in a discontinued Gudebrod nylon shade#707tan. Seems close to what I've seen on PHYs and the tan on GrangerAristocrats. Rob Hoffhines from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Mar 31 22:55:44 1998 Subject: Re: blackening chrome I've gotten a neat effect on regular chrome snake guides by CAREFULLYheatingover an alcohol lamp. It turns a nice iridescent blue. It's easy to over do itand end up with a dull grey if it gets too hot. Haven't tried it on hardchrome. I've been using Mildrum SRMCs for my strippers and usingLeClaire'sPayne solution-looks nice!! Robster from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Mar 31 23:10:46 1998 Subject: Re: Coloring blanks w/ iodine John,Did F.E. Thomas Co. use the iodine in an enclosed atmosphere as describedwiththe amonia?I did the amonia trick on a built blank I bought cheap a long time ago. Iusedhousehold amonia and set the whole thing over a floor register for a heatsource. It worked great! The only thing is, the amonia condensed on theinsideof my enclosure which kinda gave me the willies for my bare blank. But itdried out fine...I'd want to refine the technique and try it again someday. Rob from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Mar 31 23:11:51 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Building and the Mistique Jerry What part of Tx are you in? I'm in the Navy and was just told I have theoption to retire (22Yrs) or go to Ingallside. Any input? Mark Hallowell from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Mar 31 23:22:29 1998 Subject: Moisture Control I had a lengthy chat with a list member recently concerning moistureandas happens the good pastor and I chatted on other common interests aswell.Hind sight told me to post a summary to the list for all to share. Moisture and moisture re entry can be a problem in most areas of theworld. The idea that I have always had was to keep the pieces under tightcontrol until I had the finish on and then let nature take over. I think thatis practical. That length of control time can be up to a month or so at thesnail I move. For others it is only a couple of days and no real control isneed other than not spilling coffee on the parts.I have had two occassions to watch the drying out of an assembled(glued)with excess moisture. The first concern is a control to monitor how therod isdoing. A powder scale that reads in grains is a good device to do that with.The second element is a dry place to store the rod to allow the moisturetoescape to. moisture goes to dry - just as heat goes to cold. from myshakeypast I learned that - ball park - for every 4 degrees you raise the airtemperature over 'normal' the humidity is reduced by 10 %. So In you areliving in a hot wet region say where the average daily temperature is 80andthe humidity is 80 - 100% you would need to store rod parts at between115 and120 degrees to obtain a 'dry environment' - 125 degrees wouldn't hurt. The plan of action is that the weight of all part is determined andrecorded and then the parts are stored in the dry air for as long as acontinued weight lose is seen - which could be as much as a week or more.Myprediction is that there will be a 6 - 7 % weight lose in that period. Andwith that much weight removed the dimensions should shrink by 10% - time willtell.Now let's extend this example to a winter condition to see the changes.Once the outside air is below freezing no moisture is added frominfiltration.But a house generates moisture from many sources. Most homes in belowfreezingwill see a hunidity in the range of 30 - 45% - the higher the humidity themore frost effect that you will see on the inside of windows. Nowapplying ourrule of thumb if the house temperature is kept at 70 degrees - then dry aircan be had by increasing a control temperature to 82 to 88 degrees.A drawdack that I see to just storing parts in a plastic tube is that thetube is at the humidity of the surrounding atmosphere and that therepeatedopenings will refresh the moisture content. Storing part in a plastic tubewith a desicant makes sense. Otherwise the bamboo at this point thenbecomesthe desicant. Wayne from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 31 23:48:25 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA2581 +0000 Subject: Re: stanley plane Stanley #12-020 (it is in the brochure that is packed INSIDE plane boxes &is identified as 9-1/2 therein) George Bourke ----------From: MMills1@zoomit.sikorsky.com Subject: stanley planeDate: Monday, March 30, 1998 5:17 AM Hi all, Can someone please tell me the stanley catalog/part number for the9.5 block plane that everybody, except me, seems to know about. Everyhardware store that I go to seems to have what is called a low angle block plane. This unit is an adjustable throat block plane. But it is not 9.5" long or anything else. Is the 9.5 a bench plane or a large block plane. Someone please enlighten me! Thanks,Mark MillsWest Palm Beach ,Fl