from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Tue Mar 31 23:57:04 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA7522 +0000 Subject: Re: Finish -- A.J. Thramer Would love to hear your opinion after you investigate, A.J. George Bourke----------From: A.J.Thramer Subject: Re: FinishDate: Monday, March 30, 1998 4:46 PM C.J. Wohlford wrote: O.K. After reading A.J.Thramer latest posting I have one more questionthen I'll shut up. Has anyone had any experience using a product called"Sikkens Cetol." Apparently boat builders & owners are leaving behindSpar Varnish, Poly. & Oils in droves for this product. They say itlastslonger and is more durable. In fact, they are quite fanatical about it.Not sure how it would work on bamboo but from what I've heard ittendsto darken teak a little more than varnish, that's all I know. Kind ofexpensive too. Around $30 quart. Anyway, just thought I'd throw thatoutthere. I dream about having my finishes last 100+ years. Have seenwhatcan happen to Spar Varnishes over time and this worries me. Regards,Chris WohlfordHi Chris,I will most definately look into that type of finish. This constantquestioning of the status quo is what I think building is all about.A.J.Thramer from FLYROD777@aol.com Wed Apr 1 00:08:23 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod silk Yes. They area good source for materials and knowledge and will workwithyou. Mark from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 1 00:15:08 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA17679 +0000 Subject: Re: thread? Nylon stretches. George Bourke ----------From: jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Subject: thread?Date: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 11:33 AM I don't really want to start a long thread here or challenge anyone'spractices but....aside from the very important traditional role thatsilk thread has served over the years for bamboo rod building and itsbeauty, is there any reason not to use nylon thread for guide wraps?Will nylon serve the function as well or is there a real practicaladvantange to using silk? Jim Kubichek from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 1 00:25:37 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA26145 +0000 Subject: Re: blackening chrome What is "black chrome"? I've heard the term before and even seen an itemthat I was told was "black chromed" (it was striking, but still reflects aLOT oflight). Any fishing rod components available in "black chrome"? (Irealize suchitems would be mostly suitable for display pieces.) Thanks in advance,George Bourke ----------From: LECLAIR123 Subject: Re: blackening chromeDate: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 6:02 PM John,There is no way to blacken chrome. You must first strip offthechrome plating with,Hydrochloric (muriatic )acid and water.About 50/50.Afteryouhave stripped off the chrome, then you can balcken the stainless guide withOxidizer. Let me know if you need any more info. Dave LeClair from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 1 00:30:50 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA28043 +0000 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread I'd go for some...is there a way of showing available colors? George Bourke ----------From: CA Lucker Subject: Custom Order For Silk ThreadDate: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 5:33 PM The first year the Planing Form Nesletter came out I solicited interestfromrod builders who wanted to place a custom silk thread order. In thosedays,it seems everyone was looking for a 3/0 or 4/0 5115 (Corticelli JavaBeige) Dickersonand so many others used -- it looks like a nice gold with color preserveranda warm chestnut with straight spar.Anyway, I called Belding Corticelli. They said that the minimum order custom color in size 3/0 was something like a 2 dozen spools of anunGodlynumber of yards each. The cost for the entire order eight years ago was$740.00. I remember the price per 100 yards of thread worked out to beabout50 cents. Not bad. Are there enough interested people out there this time to give it a go?All we need to decide is the size and color. I have many of the original colors to send the manufacturer as a sample.Chris Lucker from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 1 00:32:15 1998 WAA07623 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Update George, Thanks. I actually live in the SF Bay area. Will go down there thisweekend. G. Hinde wrote: C.J. Californiawhich sells Kinkame brand silk thread from Japan. I have a color sampledisplay. In it are 223 samples which Kinkame makes. The price per100yd.spool is a little less than that given by Anglers workshop. At least itwas the last time I bought silk thread.The Thread is high qualityand the colors are great! Size may be aproblemif you need 2/0 or 3/0.When I purchased the thread I asked for the smallest diameter Kinkamemadeand recieved size 50 which is similar to size A (maybe a tiny bitthinner). I don't know if Kinkame makes anything thinner now or not. Itdoes come in 100yd spools and the retail store will ship out-of- state(country?). In general, I would rate Kinkame thread to be quite similartoBelding Corticelli size A.The retail store is:BRITEX FABRICS146 Geary Street, San Francisco, California 94108Tel. 392-2910I don't remember if there is a minimum mail order size, I bought 12spools. GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 1 00:35:26 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA314 +0000 Subject: Re: stanley plane Note: Someone else mentioned the Stanley #12-920 which is very similartothe#12-020. But the Stanley brochure identifies the #12-020 as the 9-1/2. George Bourke ----------From: irish-george@worldnet.att.net Subject: Re: stanley planeDate: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 9:54 PM Stanley #12-020 (it is in the brochure that is packed INSIDE plane boxes&is identified as 9-1/2 therein) George Bourke ----------From: MMills1@zoomit.sikorsky.com Subject: stanley planeDate: Monday, March 30, 1998 5:17 AM Hi all, Can someone please tell me the stanley catalog/part number for the9.5 block plane that everybody, except me, seems to know about. Everyhardware store that I go to seems to have what is called a low angle blockplane. This unit is an adjustable throat block plane. But it is not 9.5" longor anything else. Is the 9.5 a bench plane or a large block plane. Someone please enlighten me! Thanks,Mark MillsWest Palm Beach ,Fl from skyboss@ibm.net Wed Apr 1 00:45:24 1998 for; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 06:45:17 GMT Subject: Re: blackening chrome Here is a quote from a page on the internet about blackchrome............... http://www.noreast.com/fly/tackle/blkchrm.htm Black Snake Guides from PerfectionRemember those black snake guides of old? They were just about the onlysnake guides available back in the Bamboo Rod Era. Trouble is, they wereusually coated with a black lacquer which didn't stand up very well to linefriction and the elements. They certainly had no place in the salt, but some freshwater fly roddersadvanced the theory that because the guides were blackened, they wouldn'treflect sunlight and, perhaps, spook wary trout in small, clear- runningstreams. Besides, many fly rodders just liked the look of black snakeguides. Black-lacquered guides were very popular until hard-chromed stainlesssteelsnake guides came along, and they've been the standard for all fly rodderssince. But what right- or wrong-minded fly rodder wants standard whenthere's an option? Perfection Guides is giving us one this season with hard, black chromesnakeguides. This isn't a paint or anodization. It's a pure black chrome platingover Perfection's stainless steel wire snake guides. In other words, it'sthe same process Perfection uses to manufacture standard, silver snakes,butwith different chrome. The guides are comparable in every way, and they're available on up to asaltwater Size 6, so there is no reason why they cannot be used onsaltwaterfly rods. Are they better? Not really. Both the silver and black versionshave the same hard-chrome plating, the same stainless underneath, andtheycome in the same sizes, but, hey . . . They look cool. Far as I know, no manufacturer is building with Perfection's black chromeguides in 1997, so it's a custom-rod venture for now. The guides arecurrently available to independent tackle dealers through Merrick Tackle,Inc. (914-688-2216). Also take a look here........... http://www.metroplexweb.com/fireclad/ Hope this helps a bit, Ken Holder -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: blackening chrome What is "black chrome"? I've heard the term before and even seen an itemthat I was told was "black chromed" (it was striking, but still reflects aLOT oflight). Any fishing rod components available in "black chrome"? (Irealize suchitems would be mostly suitable for display pieces.) Thanks in advance,George Bourke ----------From: LECLAIR123 Subject: Re: blackening chromeDate: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 6:02 PM John,There is no way to blacken chrome. You must first strip offthechrome plating with,Hydrochloric (muriatic )acid and water.About 50/50.Afteryouhave stripped off the chrome, then you can balcken the stainless guide withOxidizer. Let me know if you need any more info. Dave LeClair from channer@frontier.net Wed Apr 1 00:48:11 1998 Subject: Re: Finish At 08:23 PM 3/30/98 EST, you wrote:Dear Chris I have used Cetol extensively, although not on rods, and can definitelyrecommend it for teak! It does seem to last longer on resinous/dense hardwoods and is perfectlyfineon spruce and other light density woods. Be advised, however, that it dardens these latter woods more thansomewhat.This may be a blessing if you are looking for a nice honey- color onunflamedcane. On the other hand there is a possibility of uneven coating color, dueto the dark tint. This shouldn't be much of a problem for "dip-tubers",thatis unless the cost makes you go all Don Knotts. My strong recommendation is that you do extensive testing with thisproduct onbamboo rods and let me know how it goes! Seriously, I believe there's apartial can in the boatshop, so I will try it on a scrap butt. Thanks fortheinspiration. Helps to balance out the exaspiration :-) Oh, one more thing: You want to take some pains with surface preparation. Iseem to recall that scratches in light-toned woods seem to show throughthisstuff real good. Bamboo might be even worse. Word to the wise. Davy Davy Davy;Is Setol a varnish or an oil finish, such as tung oil? I've been usingMan-O- War and I like the results, but it can be rather labor intensive ifyou get any crap in the last coat.John Channer from channer@frontier.net Wed Apr 1 00:49:24 1998 Subject: Re: thread? At 03:54 PM 3/31/98 EST, you wrote:In a message dated 3/31/98 11:39:31 AM Pacific Standard Time,jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us writes: I don't really want to start a long thread here or challenge anyone'spractices but....aside from the very important traditional role thatsilk thread has served over the years for bamboo rod building and itsbeauty, is there any reason not to use nylon thread for guide wraps?Will nylon serve the function as well or is there a real practicaladvantange to using silk? Nylon thread stretches more than silk, and you can build upquite a bit of force on the blank with the thread if you wrap with too much tension. But, it's less critical on a solidbamboo blank than on a graphite blank. If you are used towrapping graphite rods, the same tension should be usedon a cane rod. readily available. For following tradition, and for appearance, silkis better. Silk lays flatter and is readily smoothed over with aburnishing tool. I use silk. If Gudebrod is discontinuing it's silkthread, I better go lay in a supply. That's the thread I use. Darryl Hayashida Darryl; If you haven't tried the Japanese silk from Anglers Workshop, youshould, at least one spool, I like it better than Gudebrod. The size 50 isa little smaller than 00 and the 100 is about 000, plus they have a lotmore colors than Gudebrod, which may not necessarily be a good thing, likea resaurant with a long menu. My .02John Channer from channer@frontier.net Wed Apr 1 01:00:57 1998 Subject: Re: blackening chrome At 09:02 PM 3/31/98 EST, you wrote:John,There is no way to blacken chrome. You must first strip off thechrome plating with,Hydrochloric (muriatic )acid and water.About 50/50. Afteryouhave stripped off the chrome, then you can balcken the stainless guide withOxidizer. Let me know if you need any more info. Dave LeClair Dave;Thanks for the tip, I'll give it a try, got some spare parts to use up.John Channner from JMennen473@aol.com Wed Apr 1 01:10:12 1998 Subject: Re: Coloring blanks w/ iodine To all: Regarding the concomitant use iodine and ammonia, I would not touch thiscom-bination! I do know from experience that iodine crystals and concentratedNH4OHforms nitrogen triiodide which in the dry state is EXPLOSIVE. It iscompletelyunstable in its DRY form and cannot be touched with a feather. As far ashousehold iodine solution and common ammonia, I do not know - never didit.No matter which reagents you use it sounds risky to me even though youhavealcohol in the common iodine solution. You have been warned! John from jstickle@erols.com Wed Apr 1 05:08:03 1998 Subject: Re: Videos - Where to Get? Where can you buy Wayne's video? Jeff Stickle from fishhack@juno.com Wed Apr 1 06:05:40 1998 06:38:58 EST Subject: Drying cane I was just given some freshly cut cane from a local supply and would liketo know how long I should dry it before trying to split it. The cane ispresently in my shop and I keep it at approx. 70F . Stuart DardenNorth Carolina _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Wed Apr 1 07:09:59 1998 (METDST) Subject: Taper for 4-Piece, Aftma 5, 6.5 or 6.6 Ft Has anyone a taper for a 4-piece, Aftma5, 6.5 or 6.6 ft. rod?Action medium ? Thanks for any help! Stefan from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Apr 1 07:48:06 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA06106; Wed, 1 Apr 199808:13:14 Subject: Re: Coloring blanks w/ iodine At 02:09 AM 4/1/98 EST, JMennen473 wrote:To all: Regarding the concomitant use iodine and ammonia, I would not touch thiscom-bination! I do know from experience that iodine crystals and concentratedNH4OHforms nitrogen triiodide which in the dry state is EXPLOSIVE. It iscompletelyunstable in its DRY form and cannot be touched with a feather. As far ashousehold iodine solution and common ammonia, I do not know - never didit.No matter which reagents you use it sounds risky to me even though youhavealcohol in the common iodine solution. You have been warned! John Iodine vapor, like the related chlorine, is extremely toxic. If you want totry iodine effects you might try something like tincture of iodine orbetadine disinfectant. Another approach might be Lugol's iodine strainwhich is a test for starch. It may also stain some of the carbohydrates inthe bamboo. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from sniderja@email.uc.edu Wed Apr 1 08:04:00 1998 Am splitting bamboo for Wayne's 7' 4 wt everyone raves about. However,uponchecking tapers on the rodmakers web site and in Wayne's book, I find thatthey do not agree. Which taper is the preferred taper, i.e. the "SirDarryl" special? Secondly, what are the recommendations for lettering darkly flamedbamboo?Thanks in advance--flame me, blame me, but simply give me good advice!Jerry Snider from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Apr 1 08:07:23 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane In a message dated 98-03-31 22:59:09 EST, you write: Hank - what is poly spar? A combo?Rhanks,RTyree from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Apr 1 08:14:23 1998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: And we can't agree on much Thanks for your replies...sounds like I'll just stick with Wayne's videos, the Garrison book, and the other books I have...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: And we can't agree on much Author: at Tcpgate In a message dated 3/31/98 11:58:40 AM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: The video I saw belonged to someone else and if I remember correctlywasnot nearly as instructive as Wayne's. It was about 20 years ago.Someone else on the list may know if it's available and worth the cost. Probably the Digger Degere video. You are right, it doesn't showvery much detail, just a brief overview, and I think it's only 20 minutesto a half hour long. It's okay if you never have made a rod before, buta waste of money if you are going to get or have gotten Wayne'svideo. It's even a waste if you have gotten the Garrison or Cattanachbook. Darryl Hayashida > from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Apr 1 08:19:231998 0500 Subject: Re[2]: Videos - Where to Get? Cabela's is where I got it...I think it was $46 plus shipping (2 tapes). I don't have their number offhand, but they do have a web site and 800 information might help. The catalog was the Cabela's Tackle Crafts catalog (they have many catalogs). I have seen it elsewhere, but don't remember where. Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Videos - Where to Get? Author: at Tcpgate Where can you buy Wayne's video? Jeff Stickle from gwr@seanet.com Wed Apr 1 08:22:31 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA10125 for; Subject: Re: blackening chrome George, Call Al Bellinger. I'm not an expert when it comes to metals so I hopeI'm not misstating myself here. It seems that Al is working with someonewho can take nickel silver hardware and then plate it with an alloy ofchrome & titanium (?). I've got one seat with this stuff on it in my hand.Looking at the butt plate is like looking into a black mirror - perfectlyblack & perfectly reflective. This may be what you were talking about. Mostof my rods are created - at least partially - to serve as display pieces sothis black gloss is worth the extra expense. Al also tells me that it ismuch more durable a finish than his blueing. Hope this helps you or anyoneelse who wants to track down some of this stuff for a rod. RussGolden Witch Rodsgwr@seanet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: blackening chrome What is "black chrome"? I've heard the term before and even seen an itemthat I was told was "black chromed" (it was striking, but still reflects aLOT oflight). Any fishing rod components available in "black chrome"? (Irealize suchitems would be mostly suitable for display pieces.) Thanks in advance,George Bourke ----------From: LECLAIR123 Subject: Re: blackening chromeDate: Tuesday, March 31, 1998 6:02 PM John,There is no way to blacken chrome. You must first strip offthechrome plating with,Hydrochloric (muriatic )acid and water.About 50/50.Afteryouhave stripped off the chrome, then you can balcken the stainless guide withOxidizer. Let me know if you need any more info. Dave LeClair from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 1 09:18:38 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Warning advice The only way this can be a virus is if it is in a file attachment. e-mailcannot be a virus.Bret from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Wed Apr 1 09:26:08 1998 with ESMTP id 273 for ;Wed, 1 Apr 1998 09:30:00 -0600 Subject: Barnes' Building Bamboo Flyrod Can anyone give me a review of the George Barnes "How To Make BambooFlyrods" book? Does anyone have any idea of its current value and where a good sourcemay be? Thanks.... Jim Kubichek from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 1 09:32:35 1998 Subject: Re[2]: Silk Thread Update - Britex RO>George, Thanks. I actually live in the SF Bay area. Will go down therethisRO>weekend. RO>G. Hinde wrote: RO>> C.J.RO>>RO>> For what its worth there is a retail store in San FranciscoCalifoRO>> which sells Kinkame brand silk thread from Japan. I have a colorsampleRO>> display. In it are 223 samples which Kinkame makes. The price per100yd.RO>> spool is a little less than that given by Anglers workshop. At least itRO>> was the last time I bought silk thread.RO>> The Thread is high qualityand the colors are great! Size may be aproblemRO>> if you need 2/0 or 3/0.RO>> When I purchased the thread I asked for the smallest diameterKinkame madeRO>> and recieved size 50 which is similar to size A (maybe a tiny bitRO>> thinner). I don't know if Kinkame makes anything thinner now or not. ItRO>> does come in 100yd spools and the retail store will ship out-of-stateRO>> (country?). In general, I would rate Kinkame thread to be quitesimilar tRO>> Belding Corticelli size A.RO>> The retail store is:RO>> BRITEX FABRICSRO>> 146 Geary Street, San Francisco, California 94108RO>> Tel. 392- 2910RO>> I don't remember if there is a minimum mail order size, I bought 12spoolsRO>>RO>> GeorgeRO>> Greys River Rod Co.RO>> ghinde@inconnect.comRO>> I tried to order some thread from them a couple of years ago - gave upbecause I didn't feel comfortable with their sales method. I called in and got told that for fishing thread I had to FAX in mycolor choices and they'd check and see if they could fill the order.They didn't seem to know the thread dia. (A, 00, 50, 100 or what - I wasquoted big and small dia.) and other that some #'s off a color chart inthe Sinclair restoration book I didn't know what each color looked likethat I was ordering. Might be different if you could go to the store and just buy somethread. Don Burns from jfoster@gte.net Wed Apr 1 10:17:20 1998 Subject: Re: Moisture Control Hi Wayne I forgot to mention, i throw in some desicant too. little bags,microwaveable. jerry from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Apr 1 10:33:17 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 1Apr 1998 11:34:00 -0500 Subject: Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo Flyrod I just picked up a copy in Jan. I believe it was 60.00, first edition. If you can find it though a store or list you are lucky. Try fly-fishing shows. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Apr 1 10:33:34 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 1Apr 1998 11:34:00 -0500 Subject: Re: stanley plane Just for the record I disagree...most of us have purchased tools and what not over a lengthy time period. Even now, there are tools (not necessary) I want. If you consider the cost of the raw materials, a bamboo rod runs about $100 with a tube. Not in cluding labor of course ( a hobby write off for most of us ). My advice...(not worth much)...buy the best tools you can afford. If that means waiting another month or two, so be it. Nothing is worse than a cheap tool. If your budget is so tight that you can't get proper tools then you need to re- think getting into bamboo rod building! This is not a cheep hobby or profession! Bryant C. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from GDAVIS@EXODUS.VALPO.EDU Wed Apr 1 11:11:47 1998 #20257) rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Wed,1 Apr 1998 11:12:39 CST Subject: Review of Barnes' Reading Barnes is a cure for RA (rodmaker's angst) created by readingGarrison.Rods made simply can be good, really. Try inter library loan or perhaps the author himself still has some copies. He is/was on line. - Grayson from dhaftel@att.com Wed Apr 1 11:45:27 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 12:13:47-0500 Subject: RE: stanley plane 4.0.995.52 John, I can agree with that. I don't have a lot of money to throw at my rodbuilding, at least not all at once. I think patience is the key here.I save what I can and make purchases as I accumulate enough cash to doso. I buy the best quality tools I can justify... ONCE! If I were to go on a strict diet (IOW, not eat for a few weeks, live ina cardboard box... you get the picture...) I would be able to buyanything I want to. That, however, is not how the "real world" works... Just keep throwing those pennies into the jar... Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Jon Lintvet [SMTP:jlintvet@clarityconnect.com]Sent: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 6:25 AM Subject: Re: stanley plane Just for the record I disagree...most of us have purchased tools and what not over a lengthy time period. Even now, there are tools (not necessary) I want. If you consider the cost of the raw materials, a bamboo rod runs about $100 with a tube. Not in cluding labor of course ( a hobby write off for most of us ). My advice...(not worth much)...buy the best tools you can afford. If that means waiting another month or two, so be it. Nothing is worse than a cheap tool. If your budget is so tight that you can't get proper tools then you need to re- think getting into bamboo rod building! This is not a cheep hobby or profession! Bryant C. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 1 12:12:28 1998 Subject: Re: 7' 4 wt. Taper In a message dated 4/1/98 6:08:37 AM Pacific Standard Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: Am splitting bamboo for Wayne's 7' 4 wt everyone raves about. However,uponchecking tapers on the rodmakers web site and in Wayne's book, I findthatthey do not agree. Which taper is the preferred taper, i.e. the "SirDarryl" special? I used the taper in the book, with a little modification. I didn't like thewaythe stress went above the 200,000 line, so I added .002 to the 5, 10, and15 inch stations. In retrospect I'm glad I did while watching Jamie Lylewinging 90 feet of line back and forth. Secondly, what are the recommendations for lettering darkly flamedbamboo?Thanks in advance--flame me, blame me, but simply give me goodadvice! White or silver Testor's model paint and an old fashioned dip typeletteringpen. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 1 12:13:17 1998 Subject: Re: Coloring blanks Last night I threw some scrap pieces of bamboo intosome hot Rit dye. I was dyeing up some feathers forfly tying. The bamboo took the dye and was colored,but very lightly, and not very evenly. Seems like thefibers take up the dye differently. But why wouldn'twood stain work? Anybody try it? Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 1 12:13:23 1998 Subject: Re: thread? In a message dated 3/31/98 10:54:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,channer@frontier.net writes: Darryl; If you haven't tried the Japanese silk from Anglers Workshop, youshould, at least one spool, I like it better than Gudebrod. The size 50 isa little smaller than 00 and the 100 is about 000, plus they have a lotmore colors than Gudebrod, which may not necessarily be a good thing,likea resaurant with a long menu. My .02 Thanks, I will try it out. Always looking for improvements. Darryl Hayashida from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Apr 1 13:13:30 1998 Subject: Re: Coloring blanks Sir D. I have tried oak stain on scrap pieces to match Heddon era rods,and it appears to work fine. I think Mac MacDowel does the same. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu----------From: SalarFly Subject: Re: Coloring blanksDate: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 10:12 AM Last night I threw some scrap pieces of bamboo intosome hot Rit dye. I was dyeing up some feathers forfly tying. The bamboo took the dye and was colored,but very lightly, and not very evenly. Seems like thefibers take up the dye differently. But why wouldn'twood stain work? Anybody try it? Darryl Hayashida from ghinde@inconnect.com Wed Apr 1 13:34:41 1998 0000 (209.140.67.112) Subject: Re: Re[2]: Silk Thread Update - Britex Don When I ordered from Britex I had the sample display and knew thatsize50was the size I wanted (the size info was given by someone who had beentothe store). The sampler was a life saver! It has the color #s as well asactual samples so you can see the "real" dye colors. I just ordered X manyspools of each color at size 50 ,gave them the plastic card N0., and waitedaout one week. At the time shipping was $5.00. If it makes a difference,I think I did the transaction through my company not as an individual.George Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Re[2]: Silk Thread Update - BritexDate: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 6:32 AM RO>George, Thanks. I actually live in the SF Bay area. Will go down therethisRO>weekend. RO>G. Hinde wrote: RO>> C.J.RO>>RO>> For what its worth there is a retail store in San FranciscoCalifoRO>> which sells Kinkame brand silk thread from Japan. I have a colorsampleRO>> display. In it are 223 samples which Kinkame makes. The price per100yd.RO>> spool is a little less than that given by Anglers workshop. Atleast itRO>> was the last time I bought silk thread.RO>> The Thread is high qualityand the colors are great! Size may be aproblemRO>> if you need 2/0 or 3/0.RO>> When I purchased the thread I asked for the smallest diameterKinkame madeRO>> and recieved size 50 which is similar to size A (maybe a tiny bitRO>> thinner). I don't know if Kinkame makes anything thinner now ornot. ItRO>> does come in 100yd spools and the retail store will shipout-of-stateRO>> (country?). In general, I would rate Kinkame thread to be quitesimilar tRO>> Belding Corticelli size A.RO>> The retail store is:RO>> BRITEX FABRICSRO>> 146 Geary Street, San Francisco, California 94108RO>> Tel. 392- 2910RO>> I don't remember if there is a minimum mail order size, I bought 12spoolsRO>>RO>> GeorgeRO>> Greys River Rod Co.RO>> ghinde@inconnect.comRO>> I tried to order some thread from them a couple of years ago - gave upbecause I didn't feel comfortable with their sales method. I called in and got told that for fishing thread I had to FAX in mycolor choices and they'd check and see if they could fill the order.They didn't seem to know the thread dia. (A, 00, 50, 100 or what - I wasquoted big and small dia.) and other that some #'s off a color chart inthe Sinclair restoration book I didn't know what each color looked likethat I was ordering. Might be different if you could go to the store and just buy somethread. Don Burns from CALucker@aol.com Wed Apr 1 13:55:15 1998 Subject: Re: creamy custard color under varnish, or gold as used on may Paul Youngrods.Chris from CALucker@aol.com Wed Apr 1 14:15:52 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread Everybody has got to remember that we are exploring making a custom runorder.That means big minimum order for each size and color. It will be most helpful if we try to arrive at a concensus on a single colorand size. Everyone who is interested in getting involved in the custom order shouldsitdown with his or her silk color chart if they have one (the charts with realsilk thread samples, not color chips. You don't learn anything by wetting acolor chip). If you don't have a color chart, try to find someone who hasone. I know they are hard to find. My Corticelli chart must be forty yearsold. But those color chip things thread manufacturers send out nowadaysarereally not very good. The colors are rarely accurate. It's too hard and tooexpensive for a printer to hold colors within precise ranges.Please E-mail me on list so that other readers get an idea how popular orunpopular this project is. We might find enough support for a few colors.ThanksChris Lucker from CALucker@aol.com Wed Apr 1 14:20:59 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread I am looking for a concensus of what color folks want for the first order. Soyou tell me. Do you want Payne Brown (Java Beige 5115), do you wantLeonardpale green (Lettuce _____), do you want Dickerson Chestnut (Antique Gold5175), do you want EC Powell Tan (Pongee ____)? The color choice is forthemajority of you guys to decide. If I were to pick a color, I would select BC Antique Gold 5175 (Also calledsomething else Gold in more recent charts) in 4/0.Chris Lucker from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Apr 1 14:46:18 1998 Subject: Stanley Parts Steve, Kurt and Chris - thank you for steering me towards parts sourcesforthe repair of my old Stanley 9-1/2 plane. And Chris for Marriott's #.Regards,Richard from jczimny@dol.net Wed Apr 1 15:05:13 1998 Subject: Re: Coloring blanks w/ iodine Nope. They just rubbed it on.John Nodewrrior wrote: John,Did F.E. Thomas Co. use the iodine in an enclosed atmosphere as describedwiththe amonia?I did the amonia trick on a built blank I bought cheap a long time ago. Iusedhousehold amonia and set the whole thing over a floor register for a heatsource. It worked great! The only thing is, the amonia condensed on theinsideof my enclosure which kinda gave me the willies for my bare blank. Butitdried out fine...I'd want to refine the technique and try it again someday. Rob from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 1 15:13:28 1998 Subject: Re[2]: Re[2]: Silk Thread Update - Britex If someone could send me a Britex color chart I'd gladly pay thepostage. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com RO> When I ordered from Britex I had the sample display and knewthatsize 50RO>was the size I wanted (the size info was given by someone who hadbeen toRO>the store). The sampler was a life saver! It has the color #s as wellasRO>actual samples so you can see the "real" dye colors. I just ordered XmanyRO>spools of each color at size 50 ,gave them the plastic card N0., andwaitedRO>aout one week. At the time shipping was $5.00. If it makes adifference,RO>I think I did the transaction through my company not as an individual.RO>GeorgeRO>Greys River Rod Co.RO>ghinde@inconnect.com from polanich@ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 1 15:24:48 1998 15:24:10 dfw-ix15.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Wet behind the ears I am new to the list and the craft of bamboo rods. Currently living inCalifornia's Bay Area, I do not get to fish as often as I'd like. I findmyself tying a lot of flies and hopelessly tinkering with my gear.Recently, while browsing a friend's library, I came upon a reprint ofGarrison's book on bamboo rods. To make a long story short, I am interested in getting my hands on somebamboo and getting into the craft. Does anyone know of a way I can getstarted, get a little taste, without putting a second on my house for thetools? Are there classes offered in CA? Tight lines, JonathanFish in my heart, water on the brain and wet behind the ears. from eestlow@srminc.com Wed Apr 1 15:32:21 1998 1997)) id862565D9.0075C23A ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 15:26:14 -0600 Subject: Re: Wet behind the ears Quickest way is to try Jerry Foster's website: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Also, Bruce Conner's site has guidelines for wooden forms which manyswearby. (Sorry, I don't have his url).And....... keep tuned to this list. Best regards,Ed Estlow polanich@ix.netcom.com on 04/01/98 04:30:12 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Wet behind the ears I am new to the list and the craft of bamboo rods. Currently living inCalifornia's Bay Area, I do not get to fish as often as I'd like. I findmy self tying a lot of flies and hopelessly tinkering with my gear.Recently, while browsing a friend's library, I came upon a reprint ofGarrison's book on bamboo rods.To make a long story short, I am interested in getting my hands on somebamboo and getting into the craft. Does anyone know of a way I can getstarted, get a little taste, without putting a second on my house for thetools? Are there classes offered in CA?Tight lines,JonathanFish in my heart, water on the brain and wet behind the ears. from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 1 15:40:07 1998 NAA04976 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Update - Britex I'll see if they have one when I visit the store this weekend.Regards,Chris Wohlford flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: If someone could send me a Britex color chart I'd gladly pay thepostage. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com RO> When I ordered from Britex I had the sample display and knewthatsize 50RO>was the size I wanted (the size info was given by someone who hadbeen toRO>the store). The sampler was a life saver! It has the color #s as wellasRO>actual samples so you can see the "real" dye colors. I just ordered XmanyRO>spools of each color at size 50 ,gave them the plastic card N0., andwaitedRO>aout one week. At the time shipping was $5.00. If it makes adifference,RO>I think I did the transaction through my company not as an individual.RO>GeorgeRO>Greys River Rod Co.RO>ghinde@inconnect.com from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Wed Apr 1 15:41:44 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);1 Apr 98 16:45:09 EST EST Subject: Re: Re[2]: Re[2]: Silk Thread Update - Britex How about if someone adds the color chart to a web page?Joe M. If someone could send me a Britex color chart I'd gladly pay thepostage. from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Apr 1 15:56:27 1998 (206.186.6.162) Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread You can all build Garrison tapers guys but please dont all use the samecolourwraps.Terry CA Lucker wrote: Everybody has got to remember that we are exploring making a customrun order.That means big minimum order for each size and color. It will be most helpful if we try to arrive at a concensus on a singlecolorand size. Everyone who is interested in getting involved in the custom ordershould sitdown with his or her silk color chart if they have one (the charts withrealsilk thread samples, not color chips. You don't learn anything by wettingacolor chip). If you don't have a color chart, try to find someone who hasone. I know they are hard to find. My Corticelli chart must be fortyyearsold. But those color chip things thread manufacturers send out nowadaysarereally not very good. The colors are rarely accurate. It's too hard andtooexpensive for a printer to hold colors within precise ranges.Please E-mail me on list so that other readers get an idea how popular orunpopular this project is. We might find enough support for a few colors.ThanksChris Lucker from hall@Summa4.COM Wed Apr 1 16:04:39 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 120- 40365U700L2S100)with SMTP id AAA9907 for ;Wed, 1 Apr 1998 17:04:35 - 0500 199822:04:35 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id RAA04324 for; Wed, 1 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id RAA05214 for Subject: Lawrence Waldron's planing forms Hi All,I am interested in making Lawrence Waldron's metal planning forms(rockmaple is hard to find here in New Hampsire, unless I want to cut up myplanning table!!), following Thomas Penrose specifications, but usingkey stock as it is available. I was wondering if anyone has built these forms yet? Did you run intoany snags/bugs? Thomas's instructions seem well written andunderstandable for a beginner like myself. A 12 foot piece of 7/8 inch square key stock is costing me $55 dollars,so combined with the other hardware would be a costly pursuit. The pins,set screws and cap head bolts come in a quantity of 100 pcs, so if I gothrough with it, will have leftovers for others. Let me know if you areinterested in this Waldron hardware. Thanks for any responses, Dan from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 1 16:09:03 1998 Subject: Tight budget Seth,if you are thinking on getting in to this hobby because of a tight budgetthenyou had better rethink the whole thing or plan on making every last toolyouwill need. I bought my finish form from Lon Blauvelt and a binder fromanother guy but have made all my other tools and I already have enoughinvested that i could have bought one fine rod from most of the makers outthere and had money left over. I was always taught by my father that ifyouare going to invest in something buy the best as it is cheaper in the longrun. I am using my dads old Stanley 9.5 plane and some other top qualityitems that were his and some are over 60 years old and going strong. Theinitial outlay was quite expensive for some items that i have bought thrutheyears but when you compare the longevity of these compared to the cheapimitations then the cost is less in the long run. The bitter taste of acheapproduct far outlives the sweet taste of a cheap price.Bret from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Wed Apr 1 16:22:19 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Wed, 01 Apr 98 17:21:31 EST Subject: Re: Scraping Plane Insert Chris, For the truely obscure reference. There is a painting by G.Callebote (sp?), a french painter of the last century, that depicts threeguys refinishing a wooden floor with large bench planes with scraperinserts. Beside them is a bottle or two of wine. It's a nice statementabout men and work, but not exactly germane to rodbuilding, I just happento like the painting. B.At 11:54 AM 3/31/98 -0800, you wrote:Now this is an ingenious solution. Could not justify the cost in pickingup theLie-Nielen Scraper (especially since my wife wants a new dishwasher -guess I'mnot doing a good enough job on the dishes) Anyway, I just picked up aVeritasScraping Plane Insert (about $25.00). This insert fits into a #4 through#8 BenchPlane (Bailey). Darn thing works great! Man, who thinks of these things.Grantedthe bench plane is a lot bigger then the Stanley or Lie-Nielsen scraperbut ithas the weight and the insert provides for an adjustable depth & angle. Nomorehand scraping, yeah! Sorry, I'm kind of excited. BTW - Saw these at TheJapaneseWoodworker & Garrett Wade. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 1 16:27:28 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread Chris,if enuf gys r interested I wuld b willing 2 giv it a go.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 1 16:40:21 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Videos - Where to Get? Jeff,call Anglers Art at 1-800-848-1020.Bret from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 1 16:46:25 1998 Subject: Slide Show CD I'm embarking on a journey of ten thousand steps. I bought a CD-R(records on a CD) with this in mind. I am putting together a slideshow on how to make a bamboo rod, hopefully to show at localfly fishing clubs. I have the capability of transferring this slide showand a narration to a CD. And possibly with another $300 dollarinvestment even put short video clips on the CD. It's slow going,but the project is going to be done sooner or later. My question to everyone on the list, while the slide show is in a fluid state and can be easily changed, what would you like to see?Some things I know would be very interesting I can't show, suchas making your own planing forms, because I haven't made myown. Others I know from this list interests people, such as the wayI heat gun and flame a culm, splitting to 32 strips, the drip tube.I would like some input, especially from some of the guys justgetting into the craft. What seems to be real fuzzy in your mindseven after reading the book and watching the video? Should I even do this since Wayne already has a video out? Darryl Hayashida from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 1 16:47:07 1998 OAA13808 Subject: Re: Wet behind the ears Jonathan,If you mean the San Francisco Bay area I don't know of any classes maybesomeone else does. I've heard great things about Wayne Cattanach's video.Probably better than any class because you can always rewind. For caneyoucan always drive out to Stockon to Tuxedo Cane @ 209-948-6508 (callfirstand make an appointment), it's about 1.5 hrs drive from S.F. I know it'salmost sacrilegious to this list not to use Demarest or Andy Royer butTuxedo lets me go through their supply and pull out what I want. NewJerseyand Seattle are a little too far away for that. Tuxedo does have a 3 piecemin. purchase which can be kind of expensive (total of around $75.00). I'mtrying to get out there again soon and could get you an extra piece or two Visiting him would be good though because they are friendly,knowledgeableand they build their own rods as well. One other thing about Tuxedo is thatthey have different harvest years dating back to 1992. Stuff is wellseasoned. It gets real hot out in the Central Valley of Calif. with almostno humidity and all their cane is in a big fabricated metal warehouse withthe drying splits put in all ready. Mold is not a problem. Also located in the Bay area is:1) The Japan Woodworker in Alameda (1-800- 537-7820) Has The Planes,Hockblades, Water stones, etc.2) Hida Tools in Berkeley (800-443-5512) has Bamboo Hatchets, Splitters,Saws and a lot of other cool stuff.3) Britex Fabrics in San Francisco apparently has Silk Thread. Stillchecking on this one.4) Jim Adams in Berkeley (510-849-1324) is a great source for books &vintage cane rods, pay him a visit. Hope I don't sound like an advertisement and this info is of use to you. Regards,Chris Wohlfordchris@artistree.com P.S. - I even hear we even have a some Tonkin Cane growing along withabouta hundred other species of bamboo in a park somewhere in the bay area.Theolder woman at Hida Tools would know where. polanich@ix.netcom.com wrote: I am new to the list and the craft of bamboo rods. Currently living inCalifornia's Bay Area, I do not get to fish as often as I'd like. I findmy self tying a lot of flies and hopelessly tinkering with my gear.Recently, while browsing a friend's library, I came upon a reprint ofGarrison's book on bamboo rods. To make a long story short, I am interested in getting my hands on somebamboo and getting into the craft. Does anyone know of a way I can getstarted, get a little taste, without putting a second on my house for thetools? Are there classes offered in CA? Tight lines, JonathanFish in my heart, water on the brain and wet behind the ears. from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 1 17:04:51 1998 PAA15536 Subject: Re: Scraping Plane Insert Robert,In Northern California fine Wine & fine Cane Rod building also go hand inhand.;) Robert Milardo wrote: Chris, For the truely obscure reference. There is a painting by G.Callebote (sp?), a french painter of the last century, that depicts threeguys refinishing a wooden floor with large bench planes with scraperinserts. Beside them is a bottle or two of wine. It's a nice statementabout men and work, but not exactly germane to rodbuilding, I justhappento like the painting. B. from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 1 17:05:11 1998 OAA14857 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Update - Britex Oh man, I do this for a living and calibrating color on the Internet ishell. I could give it a shot but everyone's monitor display colorsshades a little bit differently. This is why most web designers only usethe Netscape/Explorer 216 color palette And this color palette sucksbig time. I could save as a JPEG but only people with a 24 or 32 bitcolor card will get a close match and even then I wouldn't trust it. Regards,Chris Wohlford Joe Mulvey wrote: How about if someone adds the color chart to a web page?Joe M. If someone could send me a Britex color chart I'd gladly pay thepostage. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 1 17:06:55 1998 Subject: Re: Wet behind the ears Jonathan,If you want to get started in this hobby and don't have a lot of money Iwouldsuggest that first off you buy Wayne's and Garrisons books and alsoWayne'svideo and do some studying first. Secondly I would suggest buying someproject rods and practice your finishing and wrapping techniques then asyougo along and can afford to buy some tools I would buy a little at a timeuntilyou accumulate a good set of quality tools. This is something you can dotherest of your life so don't mortgage the house or the kids so you can jump inwith both feet. Take it slow and enjoy the journey, also there are a lot oftools you can make yourself. I also build guns and I get just as muchenjoyment from making a special tool or part for my guns. I made my rough in forms and some other tools and bought some as I couldafford them. Look in antique stores for planes and also go to someauctionsyou will be surprised what you find for not to much money, oh and alsolook atgarage sales I bought some unbelievable bamboo rods that way.Bret from fer@surfplanet.com Wed Apr 1 17:09:17 1998 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id XAA19867 for; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 23:10:02 GMT Subject: Re: Warning advice The only way this can be a virus is if it is in a file attachment. e-mailcannot be a virus.Bret Hi Bret, I've been trying to find out something about this warning messages (as theone Ireceived/sent yesterday) and you're right, is not possible to get infectedviaE-Mail unless you open and execute an attachment application file. OpeningaWordfile could be also dangerous because of the macros (the virus could bethere). Ialso found that there are lots of false warning messages in the net. So...sorryabout that. Fernando from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 1 17:09:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Silk Thread Update - Britex Chris,I would be interested in a color chart also.Bret from hall@Summa4.COM Wed Apr 1 17:53:28 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 120- 40365U700L2S100)with SMTP id AAA11319 for ;Wed, 1 Apr 1998 18:53:23 -0500 199823:53:23 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id SAA04890 for ;Wed, 1 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id SAA08294 for Subject: Re: Slide Show CD Darryl,I currently have only read E. Garrisons and Waynes book. I have beenin-tune with the rodmakers list for about a month now.I found (as others has mentioned) that this art has a multitude ofwaysof doing different differently. To me, this is the beauty of this artand gives me appreciation and interest in it. At the same time, it has aoverloading affect. My current strategy is to choose a path requiring the least risk (forexample no torches or serious chemicals) with emphasis on learning theart of accurate planning. Later, enhancements to this process would besubstituted/added based upon what areas interest me. This would probablybe deriving tapers and flaming.If your intended audience are newcomers, perhaps separate thebasics, from the "optional processes". Hope this helps, Dan SalarFly wrote: I'm embarking on a journey of ten thousand steps. I bought a CD-R(records on a CD) with this in mind. I am putting together a slideshow on how to make a bamboo rod, hopefully to show at localfly fishing clubs. I have the capability of transferring this slide showand a narration to a CD. And possibly with another $300 dollarinvestment even put short video clips on the CD. It's slow going,but the project is going to be done sooner or later. My question to everyone on the list, while the slide show is ina fluid state and can be easily changed, what would you like to see?Some things I know would be very interesting I can't show, suchas making your own planing forms, because I haven't made myown. Others I know from this list interests people, such as the wayI heat gun and flame a culm, splitting to 32 strips, the drip tube.I would like some input, especially from some of the guys justgetting into the craft. What seems to be real fuzzy in your mindseven after reading the book and watching the video? Should I even do this since Wayne already has a video out? Darryl Hayashida from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Apr 1 18:19:26 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Re: Lawrence Waldron's planing forms Dan,Might be worth your while to check around a little. I paid only $13.80formy 12' long piece of 3/4" key stock. Also, I bought the other hardwarerecommended youcanbuy individual pieces from Enco. As far as cash outlay I've got less than$30inmy forms, but much, much more than that in sweat equity! More researchmight betime consuming, but may save you a few dollars.Harry Boyd Dan Hall wrote: Hi All,I am interested in making Lawrence Waldron's metal planning forms(rockmaple is hard to find here in New Hampsire, unless I want to cut up myplanning table!!), following Thomas Penrose specifications, but usingkey stock as it is available. I was wondering if anyone has built these forms yet? Did you run intoany snags/bugs? Thomas's instructions seem well written andunderstandable for a beginner like myself. A 12 foot piece of 7/8 inch square key stock is costing me $55 dollars,so combined with the other hardware would be a costly pursuit. The pins,set screws and cap head bolts come in a quantity of 100 pcs, so if I gothrough with it, will have leftovers for others. Let me know if you areinterested in this Waldron hardware. Thanks for any responses, Dan from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Apr 1 18:44:13 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0600 Subject: Prazi lathe All you metalurgists, ;) A friend dropped off a Prazi (sp?) metal lathe, 15"between centers, at my house with explicit instructions tokeep it until he needed to borrow it back from me. It has athree-jaw chuck, live center, and power feed. Can anyoneshare with me some information about the quality of thislathe for making reel seats, turning ferrule stations, etc?I can't beat it for the price!Also, I remember a while back some suggestions forgood reading on basic lathe work. Without my having to goback through the archives, can you suggest a good text ortwo for learning to do the kinds of lathe work involved inrodmaking, or perhaps just a good general guide tolathework? from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 1 18:46:34 1998 QAA04891 Subject: Re: Lawrence Waldron's planing forms Dan,Rock Hard Maple is also know as Eastern Maple or Sugar Maple (it is thetreethey useto make Maple Syrup) or Acer Saccharum (but not Silver or Western Maplethat'ssofterand not as heavy) and as a former resident of upstate New York I rememberitbeingreadily available at good prices. Paid $20.00 for more than 12 feet of ithereon thewest coast to build my roughing forms, splicing blocks etc., My $.02 worth. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Dan Hall wrote: Hi All,I am interested in making Lawrence Waldron's metal planningforms(rockmaple is hard to find here in New Hampsire, unless I want to cut up myplanning table!!), following Thomas Penrose specifications, but usingkey stock as it is available. I was wondering if anyone has built these forms yet? Did you run intoany snags/bugs? Thomas's instructions seem well written andunderstandable for a beginner like myself. A 12 foot piece of 7/8 inch square key stock is costing me $55 dollars,so combined with the other hardware would be a costly pursuit. Thepins,set screws and cap head bolts come in a quantity of 100 pcs, so if I gothrough with it, will have leftovers for others. Let me know if you areinterested in this Waldron hardware. Thanks for any responses, Dan from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Apr 1 18:55:37 1998 Subject: Re: Color chart - Britex Please respond thru the list as I'd like a chart too. Rob from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Apr 1 18:55:54 1998 (205.236.249.79) Subject: Re: Tight budget Come on Bret,all you need is a planing form and a block plane basically. If you can keepitsimple it can be a real hobby without the pressure of trying to sell thejunk tooffset the money spent on useless equipment.TerryGrhghlndr wrote: Seth,if you are thinking on getting in to this hobby because of a tight budgetthenyou had better rethink the whole thing or plan on making every last toolyouwill need. I bought my finish form from Lon Blauvelt and a binder fromanother guy but have made all my other tools and I already have enoughinvested that i could have bought one fine rod from most of the makersoutthere and had money left over. I was always taught by my father that ifyouare going to invest in something buy the best as it is cheaper in the longrun. I am using my dads old Stanley 9.5 plane and some other top qualityitems that were his and some are over 60 years old and going strong. Theinitial outlay was quite expensive for some items that i have bought thrutheyears but when you compare the longevity of these compared to thecheapimitations then the cost is less in the long run. The bitter taste of acheapproduct far outlives the sweet taste of a cheap price.Bret from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 1 19:03:42 1998 QAA05637 Subject: Re: Prazi lathe Harry,Boy, I'm full of comments today. I'd better get back to work and stopthis but I did pull this info from the archives and had it in my files.Hope this helps. BTW - I really liked the Army link. Can't beat theprice of a free download.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford ----------------------------------------------------------------- Brownells, Inc. (515) 623-5401 FAX -3896:200 South Front StreetMonetuma, IA 50171-1000 Item #053-009-000 "The Amateur's Lathe" @$17.40 ----------------------------------------------------------------- Lathe Corp., 400 West Sample St., South Bend, Indiana. USA, 46601 Phone 1-800-24-LATHE or (219) 289-7771 or FAX (219) 236-1210. The cost is$20.00 U.S. Their part number for the book is CE3450. ---------------------------------------------------------------On-line US Army Manual with Chapter 7 on using a lathe. Way Cool! (ourtax dollars at work.)http://www.atsc-army.org/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/tc/9-524/toc.htm -----------------------------------------------------Harry Boyd wrote: All you metalurgists, ;) A friend dropped off a Prazi (sp?) metal lathe, 15"between centers, at my house with explicit instructions tokeep it until he needed to borrow it back from me. It has athree-jaw chuck, live center, and power feed. Can anyoneshare with me some information about the quality of thislathe for making reel seats, turning ferrule stations, etc?I can't beat it for the price!Also, I remember a while back some suggestions forgood reading on basic lathe work. Without my having to goback through the archives, can you suggest a good text ortwo for learning to do the kinds of lathe work involved inrodmaking, or perhaps just a good general guide tolathework? from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 1 19:16:20 1998 Subject: Re[2]: Custom Order For Silk Thread RO>You can all build Garrison tapers guys but please dont all use the samecoloRO>wraps.RO>Terry Good philosophy, Terry. Don Burns from rawhitejr@cyberportal.net Wed Apr 1 19:29:30 1998 Subject: Re: Lawrence Waldron's planing forms Dan Hall wrote: Hi All,I am interested in making Lawrence Waldron's metal planning forms(rockmaple is hard to find here in New Hampsire, unless I want to cut up myplanning table!!), following Thomas Penrose specifications, but usingkey stock as it is available. I was wondering if anyone has built these forms yet? Did you run intoany snags/bugs? Thomas's instructions seem well written andunderstandable for a beginner like myself. A 12 foot piece of 7/8 inch square key stock is costing me $55 dollars,so combined with the other hardware would be a costly pursuit. The pins,set screws and cap head bolts come in a quantity of 100 pcs, so if I gothrough with it, will have leftovers for others. Let me know if you areinterested in this Waldron hardware. Thanks for any responses, Dan Dan: New Hampshire, huh? Where abouts? I'm in Claremont. I havebeenfollowing therodmakers list for several weeks and I also would like to try making a rod.Building a planingform would be the first item to build/aquire. I am a toolmaker, and couldhelpyougather thecapscrews, pins, etc. without having to buy a box of 100. Maybe we shouldtalkabout gettingtogether and making a pair of planing forms. I have use of an array ofmachinetools where Iwork, and could probably get steel ordered through the company (maybe).I will go off-line in about an hour (9:30) and won't be back on untiltomorrowafternoon, but Ido check my e-mail in the morning (5:00) before going to work.. Hope tosee areply from you.Bob from thramer@presys.com Wed Apr 1 19:30:47 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>You can all build Garrison tapers guys but please dont all use thesamecoloRO>wraps.RO>Terry Good philosophy, Terry. Don BurnsHi Don,I wanted some black/red variegated thread and Chris Mcd said youcornered the market on size 'D'? Too scary to order from Belvoirdale butI would like to dig up a spool for my own rod.A.J.Thramer from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 1 19:37:37 1998 RAA02143 Subject: Re: Color chart - Britex Just a note on the color charts. It has been my experience that theyusually charge for these charts. Everyone I have seen has been at least$10.00. I will visit the Britex store and do my best to evaluate thequality, selection and availability of the silk. I will also ask aboutthe availability of a color chart and report back to the list. But Iencourage all of you interested in their product to pursue this endeavoron your own as well. In other words please don't ask me for a chart, askthem. Their info is: Britex Fabrics146 GearySan Francisco, CA 94108415-392-2910 BTW - I just realized that I had spoke to these people about a month agoand they had told me they carried size 50 in many colors. I'm sorrythat I did not ask about a color chart. I had also spoke to YLI Corporation and did receive a color chart fromthem. They sell Size #50 in 212 colors and size #100 in 61 colors. Isthat enough colors for you? Chart was free. (Specify YLI Silk ThreadPamphlet or you will get about a hundred other Pamphlets as well onstuff you really don't want) Their Info is:YLI Corporation482 North Freedom Blvd.Provo, Utah 846021- 800-854-1932 ----------------------------------------- Nodewrrior wrote: Please respond thru the list as I'd like a chart too. Rob from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 1 19:47:11 1998 RAA03073 Subject: Re: Color chart - Britex Another Number for YLI. Looks like they have two offices. This was the number that sent me the info:YLI Corporation161 West MainStreetRock Hill, SC 297301-800-296-8139 This is the info listed on the Silk Color Chart:YLI Corporation482 North Freedom Blvd.Provo, Utah 846021-800-854-1932 from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 1 19:55:45 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA27459 for Subject: Re: Prazi lathe At 06:42 PM 4/1/98 -0600, you wrote:All you metalurgists, ;) A friend dropped off a Prazi (sp?) metal lathe, 15" Don't know about the Prazi directly, but a valued friend who was quite a"dabbler" in metalworking praised the brand highly and often. good reading on basic lathe work. Without my having to goback through the archives, can you suggest a good text ortwo Get yourself a copy of LindsayPublications" "Metalworking Books" Catalog(They have a website athttp://www.keynet.net/~lindsay/and their address is Po Box 538 Bradley, IL 60915-0538 Phone: 815-935-5353Many on this list have suggested South Bend's "How to Run a Lathe" and Ithink it's about 25 simoleons at S.B. These guys have it on pg 16 of theircatalog for 7.95. There are many more, too!Give 'em a try. You won't be disappointed. (Most of their stuff is fromoutta-date sources, but aren't we, too, outta- date?) All the usualdisclaimers...yada yada....Art from EMiller257@aol.com Wed Apr 1 20:33:42 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane Darryl, you're right, us cheapskates cant afford new cane rods but we likethem enough to go through the rigors of learning the craft and a littleingenuity helps. Garrisons book show a number of homemade contraptionsthatserved their purpose. We are just trying to accomplish the same thing.........Ed Miller from d_price@global2000.net Wed Apr 1 20:36:48 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA30111 for; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:36:41 -0500 Subject: Re: Prazi lathe Harry Boyd wrote: All you metalurgists, ;) A friend dropped off a Prazi (sp?) metal lathe, 15"between centers, at my house with explicit instructions tokeep it until he needed to borrow it back from me. It has athree-jaw chuck, live center, and power feed. Can anyoneshare with me some information about the quality of thislathe for making reel seats, turning ferrule stations, etc?I can't beat it for the price!Also, I remember a while back some suggestions forgood reading on basic lathe work. Without my having to goback through the archives, can you suggest a good text ortwo for learning to do the kinds of lathe work involved inrodmaking, or perhaps just a good general guide tolathework? Harry is it a sd model???very nice....you should be able to make verynice ferrels and reel seat fittings with it......worth 2600.00 new!!Dave Price from d_price@global2000.net Wed Apr 1 20:53:45 1998 mail1.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id VAA30910 for; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:53:40 -0500 Subject: Re: Jerry Snider wrote: Am splitting bamboo for Wayne's 7' 4 wt everyone raves about. However,uponchecking tapers on the rodmakers web site and in Wayne's book, I findthatthey do not agree. Which taper is the preferred taper, i.e. the "SirDarryl" special? Secondly, what are the recommendations for lettering darkly flamedbamboo?Thanks in advance--flame me, blame me, but simply give me good advice!Jerry Snider Jerry I did the one on your page(wc 7042)...as my first rod...and havehad nothing short of amasement from all that have casted it..includingsalesmen at the Orvis Hdq.....this one guy up there(Walt)is the bestcaster I've ever seen and I had to pry it out of his hands....they allsay the same thing..fast like graphite but will cast a short line ,withgreat control at all distances...never casted a bamboo rod that feltthis good...Dave Price P.S. THANKS WAYNE!!!!!! from jczimny@dol.net Wed Apr 1 21:29:48 1998 Subject: Re: Color chart - Britex YLI has moved to Rock Hill. It is no longer in Utah. They import KanagawaSilk which is the stuff I mentioned.John C.J. Wohlford wrote: Another Number for YLI. Looks like they have two offices. This was the number that sent me the info:YLI Corporation161 West MainStreetRock Hill, SC 297301-800-296-8139 This is the info listed on the Silk Color Chart:YLI Corporation482 North Freedom Blvd.Provo, Utah 846021-800-854-1932 from ghinde@inconnect.com Wed Apr 1 21:42:20 1998 (209.140.67.115) Subject: Re: Color chart - Britex C.J.I live in Salt Lake City, Utah. As soon as I get time I'm going to visitYLI CORP. & check out the thread.George Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: Color chart - BritexDate: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 6:40 PM Just a note on the color charts. It has been my experience that theyusually charge for these charts. Everyone I have seen has been at least$10.00. I will visit the Britex store and do my best to evaluate thequality, selection and availability of the silk. I will also ask aboutthe availability of a color chart and report back to the list. But Iencourage all of you interested in their product to pursue this endeavoron your own as well. In other words please don't ask me for a chart, askthem. Their info is: Britex Fabrics146 GearySan Francisco, CA 94108415-392-2910 BTW - I just realized that I had spoke to these people about a month agoand they had told me they carried size 50 in many colors. I'm sorrythat I did not ask about a color chart. I had also spoke to YLI Corporation and did receive a color chart fromthem. They sell Size #50 in 212 colors and size #100 in 61 colors. Isthat enough colors for you? Chart was free. (Specify YLI Silk ThreadPamphlet or you will get about a hundred other Pamphlets as well onstuff you really don't want) Their Info is:YLI Corporation482 North Freedom Blvd.Provo, Utah 846021- 800-854-1932 ----------------------------------------- Nodewrrior wrote: Please respond thru the list as I'd like a chart too. Rob from ghinde@inconnect.com Wed Apr 1 21:54:24 1998 (209.140.67.115) Subject: Re: Color chart - Britex Thanks for the info about the move . Now I won't waste my time going toProvo. Then again, the action on the Provo River has been great! Somaybe......... ----------From: J. C. Zimny Subject: Re: Color chart - BritexDate: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 8:22 PM YLI has moved to Rock Hill. It is no longer in Utah. They import KanagawaSilk which is the stuff I mentioned.John C.J. Wohlford wrote: Another Number for YLI. Looks like they have two offices. This was the number that sent me the info:YLI Corporation161 WestMainStreetRock Hill, SC 297301-800-296-8139 This is the info listed on the Silk Color Chart:YLI Corporation482 North Freedom Blvd.Provo, Utah 846021-800-854-1932 from saweiss@flash.net Wed Apr 1 23:13:09 1998 Subject: Re: Lawrence Waldron's planing forms -----Original Message----- Subject: Lawrence Waldron's planing forms Hi All,I am interested in making Lawrence Waldron's metal planning forms(rockmaple is hard to find here in New Hampsire, unless I want to cut up myplanning table!!), following Thomas Penrose specifications, but usingkey stock as it is available. I was wondering if anyone has built these forms yet? Did you run intoany snags/bugs? Thomas's instructions seem well written andunderstandable for a beginner like myself. A 12 foot piece of 7/8 inch square key stock is costing me $55 dollars,so combined with the other hardware would be a costly pursuit. The pins,set screws and cap head bolts come in a quantity of 100 pcs, so if I gothrough with it, will have leftovers for others. Let me know if you areinterested in this Waldron hardware. Thanks for any responses, Dan Dan,I'm interested in building a set of forms too, so I would be willing to buypart of your stock of hardware. Would you have enough for providing mewiththe bolts, screws, and pins for two forms? How much would it cost? Howcan Iget a copy of Waldron's plans? Thanks,Steve Weiss from saweiss@flash.net Wed Apr 1 23:16:37 1998 Subject: Re: Tight budget -----Original Message----- Subject: Tight budget Seth,if you are thinking on getting in to this hobby because of a tight budgetthenyou had better rethink the whole thing or plan on making every last toolyouwill need. I bought my finish form from Lon Blauvelt and a binder fromanother guy but have made all my other tools and I already have enoughinvested that i could have bought one fine rod from most of the makersoutthere and had money left over. I was always taught by my father that ifyouare going to invest in something buy the best as it is cheaper in thelong>run. I am using my dads old Stanley 9.5 plane and some other topqualityitems that were his and some are over 60 years old and going strong. Theinitial outlay was quite expensive for some items that i have bought thrutheyears but when you compare the longevity of these compared to the cheapimitations then the cost is less in the long run. The bitter taste of acheapproduct far outlives the sweet taste of a cheap price.Bret Bret,Does Lon Blauvelt build forms? If so, how can I contact him?Thanks,Steve Weiss from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Wed Apr 1 23:36:14 1998 SMTP idVAA17519 for ; Wed, 1 Apr 1998 21:36:08 Subject: Re: stanley plane irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: Note: Someone else mentioned the Stanley #12-920 which is verysimilar tothe#12-020. But the Stanley brochure identifies the #12-020 as the 9- 1/2. George Bourke THE #12-020 AND #12-920 ARE BOTH STANLEY 9 1\2S. THE #12-920 ISTHE "CONTRACTOR'S" MODEL WITH THE SOLE ALREADY MILLED FLAT.(?) THE #12- 020IS NOT MILLED PERFECTLY FLAT( from WHAT I UNDERSTAND).T. BECKER from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 2 00:03:34 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA13763 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Update - Britex (Chris Wohlford) Chris, That would help me. I use Kodak's CMS and have a 24 bit card.Maybe others do too??? Regards,George Bourke----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: Silk Thread Update - BritexDate: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 3:01 PM Oh man, I do this for a living and calibrating color on the Internet ishell. I could give it a shot but everyone's monitor display colorsshades a little bit differently. This is why most web designers only usethe Netscape/Explorer 216 color palette And this color palette sucksbig time. I could save as a JPEG but only people with a 24 or 32 bitcolor card will get a close match and even then I wouldn't trust it. Regards,Chris Wohlford Joe Mulvey wrote: How about if someone adds the color chart to a web page?Joe M. If someone could send me a Britex color chart I'd gladly pay thepostage. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 2 00:09:41 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA16312 Subject: Re: Prazi lathe a Lathe". Go to http://www.dejanews.com and search for some ot thekeywords mentioned. Pick a posting by Dennis Armstrong (he has abunch of the books & cheap)...I got mine (new) from him for approximately$8.75 ppd at about the same time I "won" an E- Bay auction for the sameitem for ~$20.00, not ppd. George Bourke ----------From: Harry Boyd Subject: Prazi latheDate: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 4:42 PM All you metalurgists, ;) A friend dropped off a Prazi (sp?) metal lathe, 15"between centers, at my house with explicit instructions tokeep it until he needed to borrow it back from me. It has athree-jaw chuck, live center, and power feed. Can anyoneshare with me some information about the quality of thislathe for making reel seats, turning ferrule stations, etc?I can't beat it for the price!Also, I remember a while back some suggestions forgood reading on basic lathe work. Without my having to goback through the archives, can you suggest a good text ortwo for learning to do the kinds of lathe work involved inrodmaking, or perhaps just a good general guide tolathework? from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 2 00:28:11 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA26726 Subject: Re: stanley plane The store I was in only had the 12-920 in stock (which looked well- madeinSheffield, England). The Stanley brochure, however, listed it as being abit longerthan the 12-020 (less than an inch longer), and had the 12-020 (also madeinSheffield, England) costing slightly more (less than $2.00 difference if Irememberright). I'd be surprised if either plane didn't have its sole milled flat(kinda uselessas a plane if it isn't, isn't it?). I'm sure either plane would work well,BUT since thedimensions of the two planes ARE DIFFERENT, I thought it might causeproblems 12-020 asthe model 9-1/2.) George Bourke ----------From: tbeckfam@pacbell.net Subject: Re: stanley planeDate: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 10:11 PM irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: Note: Someone else mentioned the Stanley #12-920 which is verysimilartothe#12-020. But the Stanley brochure identifies the #12-020 as the 9-1/2. George Bourke THE #12-020 AND #12-920 ARE BOTH STANLEY 9 1\2S. THE #12-920 ISTHE "CONTRACTOR'S" MODEL WITH THE SOLE ALREADY MILLED FLAT.(?) THE#12- 020IS NOT MILLED PERFECTLY FLAT( from WHAT I UNDERSTAND).T. BECKER from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 2 07:06:56 1998 Subject: Re: stanley plane At 10:11 PM 4/1/98 -0800, you wrote:irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: Note: Someone else mentioned the Stanley #12-920 which is verysimilar tothe#12-020. But the Stanley brochure identifies the #12-020 as the 9- 1/2. George Bourke THE #12-020 AND #12-920 ARE BOTH STANLEY 9 1\2S. THE #12-920 ISTHE "CONTRACTOR'S" MODEL WITH THE SOLE ALREADY MILLED FLAT.(?) THE#12- 020IS NOT MILLED PERFECTLY FLAT( from WHAT I UNDERSTAND).T. BECKER Mr. T,Irish-George could be a little hard of hearing, but we try to not yellathim. ;-) from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Thu Apr 2 07:53:33 1998 with ESMTP id 278 for ;Thu, 2 Apr 1998 07:57:12 -0600 Subject: Rod Design via V. Marinaro I was reading "In the Ring Of the Rise" by Vincent Marinaro last night.I was reading the chapter on Rod Design and found some information Iwanted to get feedback on. He has some interesting ideas but the one Iam most interested in is found on page 48-49. Here, he suggests that acertain amount of pith included in each strip will act as a stresscushion and produce a rod that is much smoother casting. He also goeson to say on page 51 that the pith will help prevent failure by ruptureof the rod. He is also an advocate for longer (9 ft.) rods. Doesanyone have any reaction to his claims in the rod design section? Thanks for your replies, Jim Kubichek from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Apr 2 09:14:54 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 2Apr 1998 10:16:08 -0500 Subject: Re: Tight budget Lon's # 207-781-5235. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Apr 2 09:47:51 1998 Subject: Re: Diamond stones I was wondering, I've been using the green #1200 diamond stone as apreliminary step before going to my #8000 waterstone for honing. The#1200takes way too long so I want to get a heavier diamond stone for this 1ststepin sharpening. I just need to know which one would be best. Any help wouldasalways, be greatly appreciated. Rob Hoffhines from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Apr 2 10:13:11 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro Was that Vince or Ed? Just to save someone else from saying it. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Subject: Rod Design via V. MarinaroDate: Thursday, April 02, 1998 5:51 AM I was reading "In the Ring Of the Rise" by Vincent Marinaro last night.I was reading the chapter on Rod Design and found some information Iwanted to get feedback on. He has some interesting ideas but the one Iam most interested in is found on page 48-49. Here, he suggests that acertain amount of pith included in each strip will act as a stresscushion and produce a rod that is much smoother casting. He also goeson to say on page 51 that the pith will help prevent failure by ruptureof the rod. He is also an advocate for longer (9 ft.) rods. Doesanyone have any reaction to his claims in the rod design section? Thanks for your replies, Jim Kubichek from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Apr 2 10:22:07 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id KAA03507 for Subject: Re: Moisture Control Wayne Catt wrote: I had a lengthy chat with a list member recently concerningmoistureStoring part in a plastic tubewith a desicant makes sense. Otherwise the bamboo at this point thenbecomesthe desicant. Wayne I am a Martin Guitar Repair man and I thought I would share someknowledge tothelist on this very important subject.( Lutherie requires 6% - 8% moisturecontentin the woods for tonal reasons). I have a dry storage cabinet for the woodsused.This cabinet also holds my bamboo. I took a corner of my shop and builtwallstheinside sheathing is cedar,because I like the smell, the walls are filledwithfoamand the outside sheathing is chip board.There is a 2" tall slit at the top fortheescape of air and a blower and heating element at floor level. This set upallowscomplete control of the enviroment inside the cabinet. The column of airremovesthe excess moisture which is controled with a humidity control and athermocoupleregulates the heating element. I realize that most of the list memberswill notwant to get this fancy but you can do it simple with the same results.Bryant C. from dryfly@erols.com Thu Apr 2 10:30:23 1998 Subject: Re: Diamond stones I am currently using the same #1200 diamond stone and I spend about aminute or so sharpening my blade before I go to the #8000 waterstone. Imicro bevel my blades and once completed, the micro bevel is probablyless than 1/32th of an inch but it cuts like a dream. I use two planesto plane six strips and then resharpen both. Using a micro bevel hasconsiderably shortened my sharpening time. Give it a try. My $0.02Bob Nodewrrior wrote: I was wondering, I've been using the green #1200 diamond stone as apreliminary step before going to my #8000 waterstone for honing. The#1200takes way too long so I want to get a heavier diamond stone for this 1ststepin sharpening. I just need to know which one would be best. Any helpwould asalways, be greatly appreciated. Rob Hoffhines from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Apr 2 10:51:20 1998 (METDST) Subject: [Fwd: Taper for 4-Piece, Aftma 5, 6.5 or 6.6 Ft] Subject: Taper for 4-Piece, Aftma 5, 6.5 or 6.6 Ft Has anyone a taper for a 4-piece, Aftma5, 6.5 or 6.6 ft. rod?Action medium ? Thanks for any help! Stefan from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Thu Apr 2 10:55:50 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Moisture Control bryant if you are interested in by some good spruce guitar tops emailme. The shop I worked for bought our own logs cut them and air driedthem for years. They have both sitka and engleman-same as German spruceonly instead of shipping the logs to Germany and cutting them there theyare cut right here in the great northwest where they grow. ----------From: Bryant J. Cochran, Jr.[SMTP:bjcoch@arkansas.net] Sent: Thursday, April 02, 1998 8:19 PM Subject: Re: Moisture Control Wayne Catt wrote: I had a lengthy chat with a list member recently concerningmoistureStoring part in a plastic tubewith a desicant makes sense. Otherwise the bamboo at this pointthen becomesthe desicant. Wayne I am a Martin Guitar Repair man and I thought I would share someknowledge to thelist on this very important subject.( Lutherie requires 6% - 8%moisture contentin the woods for tonal reasons). I have a dry storage cabinet for thewoods used.This cabinet also holds my bamboo. I took a corner of my shop andbuilt walls theinside sheathing is cedar,because I like the smell, the walls arefilled with foamand the outside sheathing is chip board.There is a 2" tall slit at thetop for theescape of air and a blower and heating element at floor level. Thisset up allowscomplete control of the enviroment inside the cabinet. The column ofair removesthe excess moisture which is controled with a humidity control and athermocoupleregulates the heating element. I realize that most of the list memberswill notwant to get this fancy but you can do it simple with the same results.Bryant C. from thramer@presys.com Thu Apr 2 11:45:23 1998 0000 Subject: 4'4" 4wt 453 Someone asked for a 4'4" 2pc 4wt 0- .0685- .08410- .09615- .11420- .12825- .14430- .15835- .17640- .19245- .220to 52 .220 It uses an 11/64 ferrule based on a D taper 1 7/16ozFell free to use a 3wt alsoA.J.Thramer from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Apr 2 14:16:01 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Prazi lathe Thanks for all the help!! All the links are fun to follow. The one listedbelow prints out over 100 pages! I've got some reading to do, and it willbeat working. Thanks,Harrybig snip from thramer@presys.com Thu Apr 2 15:02:14 1998 0000 Subject: [Fwd: 8ft 7wt] Organization: A.J. Thramer Bamboo Rods Subject: 8ft 7wt 0 .0805 .09410 .11015 .12620 .14025 .15830 .17435 .19440 .21245 .22650 .23455 .24260 .24865 .27670 .30275 .32480 .34085 .360to 96" .360This is a Px taper A.J.Thramer from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Thu Apr 2 15:30:28 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Thu, 02 Apr 98 16:29:11 EST Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro I've heard that Marinaro's rods were incredibly slow, and that fitswith the comment about adding pith. I remember reading (perhaps inMarinaroor Garrison )that breakage occurs when fibers on the concave side of abendessentially buckle inward, form a wedge, and cut into those on theoppositeside. This seems to be more of a problem than tearing of the fibers on theconvex side of the bend. Under those conditions it is reasonable to assumethat pith would make the rod more break resistant. On the other hand, is breakage a problem? I have yet to breakeither a cane or a graphite rod at all, let alone overpowering it on a fishor casting etc. And I would guess that the common "wisdom" is that thereduced modulous of elasticity that results from the inclusion of pithdetracts so much from the casting dynamics as to render the problem ofbreakage so secondary as to become irrelevant. Given the composition of the rods and their length, they must havebeen very heavy, and therefore slow, because of their own inertialcharacteristics. Not having cast one it is difficult to be fair toMarinaro, but I am skeptical about how effecient a tool such a rod wouldbe. I have a great deal of respect for Marinaro for his commentary onfly design and drift analysis, but I have looked elsewhere for guidance onrod design. just some distracted thoughts, At 07:51 AM 4/2/98 -0600, you wrote:I was reading "In the Ring Of the Rise" by Vincent Marinaro last night.I was reading the chapter on Rod Design and found some information Iwanted to get feedback on. He has some interesting ideas but the one Iam most interested in is found on page 48-49. Here, he suggests that acertain amount of pith included in each strip will act as a stresscushion and produce a rod that is much smoother casting. He also goeson to say on page 51 that the pith will help prevent failure by ruptureof the rod. He is also an advocate for longer (9 ft.) rods. Doesanyone have any reaction to his claims in the rod design section? Thanks for your replies, Jim Kubichek Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from jsbond@inforamp.net Thu Apr 2 15:59:21 1998 Subject: Re: Diamond stones I have used the "blue" diamond stone wirh good success, for cleaning upnicks and then going to the stones as you are. I think the blue stone israted around 360. JB At 10:46 AM 4/2/98 EST, you wrote:I was wondering, I've been using the green #1200 diamond stone as apreliminary step before going to my #8000 waterstone for honing. The#1200takes way too long so I want to get a heavier diamond stone for this 1ststepin sharpening. I just need to know which one would be best. Any helpwould asalways, be greatly appreciated. Rob Hoffhines from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 2 16:24:50 1998 Subject: VB 5 - Help? Would like to chat with some member of the list that knows VB 5 - ForHex98 Wayne from maiello@yorku.ca Thu Apr 2 17:10:47 1998 (CycyC+loe0I/ULLVtDhwkYG1d4VFbdmo@sunlight.ccs.yorku.ca (8.8.7/8.8.5) with SMTP id SAA23320 for ;Thu, 2 Apr Subject: Re: VB 5 - Help? Hi Wayne.I have done some programs in VB 5.Let me know if I can help.I dont mind doing the programing if you like.Mauro Aiello. On Thu, 2 Apr 1998, Wayne Catt wrote: Would like to chat with some member of the list that knows VB 5 - 98 Wayne from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 2 17:30:51 1998 Subject: Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo Flyrod At 09:24 AM 4/1/98 -0600, you wrote:Can anyone give me a review of the George Barnes "How To Make BambooFlyrods" book? Does anyone have any idea of its current value and where a good sourcemay be? Thanks.... Jim Kubichek Jim,Just now saw a copy at e-bay. Go to the fourth page after putting"fishing" in searchhttp://pages.ebay.com/aw/search.htmlGary from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 2 17:53:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Tight budget Terry,you are right about this but you can also catch a trout with a worm and apiece of string tied to a bent saftey pin. I for one enjoy the many tools Ihave plus the rods and reels I have you spends your money and you getswhatyou gets.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 2 17:59:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Tight budget Steve,you can call Lon at 207-781-5235. His forms come very wel finished andIthink that they are one heck of a deal. Better than spending $850.00 assomepeople want for them. Lon sells his for $325.00 plus shipping.Bret from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Apr 2 18:47:09 1998 (206.186.6.169) Subject: Re: Tight budget I understand that some guys just love gadgets but I believe that it ispossibleto enjoy rodmaking with very little equipment. Do you honestly need a diptankand a wrapping machine?I wish that I had read G. Barnes's book firstTerry Grhghlndr wrote: Terry,you are right about this but you can also catch a trout with a worm and apiece of string tied to a bent saftey pin. I for one enjoy the many tools Ihave plus the rods and reels I have you spends your money and you getswhatyou gets.Bret from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 2 19:34:46 1998 Subject: Re: Re: stanley plane Richard,I was just abreviating polyurethane spar varnish (I use Helmsman).Hope to see you at Grayrock.Regards,Hank. from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 2 19:36:09 1998 Subject: Re: Tight budget At 07:47 PM 4/2/98 -0500, you wrote:I understand that some guys just love gadgets but I believe that it ispossibleto enjoy rodmaking with very little equipment. Do you honestly need a diptankand a wrapping machine?I wish that I had read G. Barnes's book firstTerry Grhghlndr wrote: Jim,I was hoping someone would review "How to Build Bamboo Flyrods" This is truly the essence of Mr. Barnes' book.Gary from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 2 19:37:29 1998 UAA03312;Thu, 2 Apr 1998 20:37:18 -0500 Subject: Re: Tight budget Terry Agree with you - that you can enjoy rodmaking with some verybasic tools and equipment. But to answer your question - no you don't need a dip tank - a good brush job is very nice (hard to get agood varnish suitable for brushing today). But a dip tube is just a lengthof pipe - thats all and yields very good results and not a cost driver.But, I do think you need a binder - A good binder pays for itself. ... They are very basic and cheap to make (I understand that some guys just love gadgets but I believe that it ispossibleto enjoy rodmaking with very little equipment. Do you honestly need a diptankand a wrapping machine?I wish that I had read G. Barnes's book firstTerry Grhghlndr wrote: Terry,you are right about this but you can also catch a trout with a worm andapiece of string tied to a bent saftey pin. I for one enjoy the many toolsIhave plus the rods and reels I have you spends your money and you getswhatyou gets.Bret from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 2 19:45:42 1998 Subject: correction My apologies: That should be "How to Make Bamboo Fly Rods"Gary from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Apr 2 19:50:00 1998 Subject: Re: Lawrence Waldron's planing forms Dan, MSC is a good resource for those shoulder bolts, set screws,etc.... Impossible to find in some small towns (like mine). Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Dan Hall Subject: Lawrence Waldron's planing formsDate: Wednesday, April 01, 1998 2:04 PM Hi All,I am interested in making Lawrence Waldron's metal planning forms(rockmaple is hard to find here in New Hampsire, unless I want to cut up myplanning table!!), following Thomas Penrose specifications, but usingkey stock as it is available. I was wondering if anyone has built these forms yet? Did you run intoany snags/bugs? Thomas's instructions seem well written andunderstandable for a beginner like myself. A 12 foot piece of 7/8 inch square key stock is costing me $55 dollars,so combined with the other hardware would be a costly pursuit. The pins,set screws and cap head bolts come in a quantity of 100 pcs, so if I gothrough with it, will have leftovers for others. Let me know if you areinterested in this Waldron hardware. Thanks for any responses, Dan from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Apr 2 19:58:14 1998 (206.186.6.169) Subject: Re: Tight budget Chris, the bestroute is the simplest. I for one has never had a scraping plane, would notknowhowto use it. I use a plane blade held in the hand just to remove the outerlayer.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terry Agree with you - that you can enjoy rodmaking with some verybasic tools and equipment. But to answer your question - no youdon't need a dip tank - a good brush job is very nice (hard to get agood varnish suitable for brushing today). But a dip tube is just a lengthof pipe - thats all and yields very good results and not a cost driver.But, I do think you need a binder - A good binder pays for itself. ...They are very basic and cheap to make ( To save money I would advise to go nodeless - junk the node pressvise, the heat treatment oven, the scraper plane and you will be $$ ahead. Chris Chris On Thu, 02 Apr 1998 19:47:16 -0500, Terence Ackland wrote: I understand that some guys just love gadgets but I believe that it ispossibleto enjoy rodmaking with very little equipment. Do you honestly need adiptankand a wrapping machine?I wish that I had read G. Barnes's book firstTerry Grhghlndr wrote: Terry,you are right about this but you can also catch a trout with a wormand apiece of string tied to a bent saftey pin. I for one enjoy the manytoolsIhave plus the rods and reels I have you spends your money and you getswhatyou gets.Bret from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Apr 2 20:06:56 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 2Apr 1998 21:08:13 -0500 Subject: Motors... I tried attaching my dip tube set up to a rod turner spinning at 4 rpm. I honestly thought it was too fast. Also, I didn't like the I would like to hear on/off list sources/types of motors people have used or would recommend. Thanks in advance, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Thu Apr 2 20:10:06 1998 (206.186.6.169) Subject: Re: Tight budget I have Barnes's modest book and I guess that it would not be very wellreceivedonthis list because he makes rodmaking look too simple. lookatthis book. How can planing and gluing 6 strips of bamboo together be thatdifficult? Terry Heidt wrote: At 07:47 PM 4/2/98 -0500, you wrote:I understand that some guys just love gadgets but I believe that it ispossibleto enjoy rodmaking with very little equipment. Do you honestly need adiptankand a wrapping machine?I wish that I had read G. Barnes's book firstTerry Grhghlndr wrote: Jim,I was hoping someone would review "How to Build Bamboo Flyrods"foryou.This is truly the essence of Mr. Barnes' book.Gary from jfoster@gte.net Thu Apr 2 20:39:45 1998 Subject: Re: Tight budget Bret Take a look at Terry's home page before you take any guff about toy's. Iknow he's a professional machinest, but really? Jerry from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 2 21:07:55 1998 WAA20916;Thu, 2 Apr 1998 22:07:54 -0500 Subject: Re: Motors... Jon Motors! who needs freaking motors! I do it the oldfashioned way - manually - with a paw and claw arrangementthat gives me control of the process - I can stop, I can back up. Never did see the sense of a motor. Chris On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:06:34 +0000, Jon Lintvet wrote: I tried attaching my dip tube set up to a rod turner spinning at 4 rpm. I honestly thought it was too fast. Also, I didn't like the I would like to hear on/off list sources/types of motors people have used or would recommend. Thanks in advance, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 2 21:11:55 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Tight budget Jerry,What is Terry's home page address.BretP.S. I can take the guff as I have very thick skin. from jfoster@gte.net Thu Apr 2 21:31:18 1998 Subject: Re: Tight budget Comeon Bret, it's listed on the page under makers.... jerry from jfoster@gte.net Thu Apr 2 21:37:55 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... Jon look under supplies on the web page, there's a listing for herbach andrademan, almost near the bottom, they sell stepper motors assembled andin kits for less than $25. call them and get a catalog. jerry from tausfeld@earthlink.net Thu Apr 2 21:44:43 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... Now Chris, No electrical devices, come on, what fun is that. I guess its a good way to practice the hand twist retreive. latertom Chris Bogart wrote: Jon Motors! who needs freaking motors! I do it the oldfashioned way - manually - with a paw and claw arrangementthat gives me control of the process - I can stop, I can back up.Never did see the sense of a motor. Chris On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:06:34 +0000, Jon Lintvet wrote: I tried attaching my dip tube set up to a rod turner spinning at 4rpm. I honestly thought it was too fast. Also, I didn't like the I would like to hear on/off list sources/types of motors people haveused or would recommend. Thanks in advance, Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Apr 2 22:01:58 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 2Apr 1998 23:03:20 -0500 Subject: Re: Motors... I use the reel method also. However, if I am doing the blank alone with no components, a power feed would be nice. I do three or so coats before wrapping the rod. Then..one more after the wraps are done. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from DocBry8146@aol.com Thu Apr 2 22:15:55 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... Hello out there. Is any one home? Please remove me from your mailing list. Thank you. Dr. Bryan Wierwill from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Apr 2 22:29:32 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... In a message dated 98-04-02 21:08:46 EST, you write: Jon: Grangers is one source. Relatively inexpensive, reversible gearmotorsdown to one rpm. With one rpm, a 1-1/4 wooden spool would provide about4"/min. I use a string over wooden pullys (shop made) tho, so that I canmanually lower the sections into the tube, ie., it takes only a little forceto cause the string to slip on the wooden pullys. Regards,Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Apr 2 22:51:37 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... In a message dated 98-04-02 22:53:42 EST, you write: Chris - powered thru a timer, it is also a good way to do other thingswhilethe section is inching its way out. RTyree from rennygr@ibm.net Thu Apr 2 23:19:33 1998 byout1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA91072 for; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 05:19:30 GMT Subject: Re: Motors... Jon, After many years of being forced to wake up too early in the morning, Iobtained a small measure of revenge against my electice alarm clock byscavenging it's electric motor for some rod turning. At precisely 1rpm, something similar might partially serve your needs for a slower rpm motor. Renny Jon Lintvet wrote: I tried attaching my dip tube set up to a rod turner spinning at 4rpm. I honestly thought it was too fast. Also, I didn't like the I would like to hear on/off list sources/types of motors people haveused or would recommend. from KDLoup@aol.com Thu Apr 2 23:33:47 1998 Subject: Re: 4'4" 4wt 453 AJ,Thanks. I had requested the taper. Kurt Loup from tripp@olywa.net Thu Apr 2 23:49:05 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA10582 for ;Thu, 2 Apr 1998 21:51:20 -0800 Subject: Re: Tight budget I just received one of Lon's forms, and must agree. For the price, theyare nicely worked. Since I was already ordering, I also got one of thegauges w/tip that he sells. Being a novice, I found Lon to be greatly encouraging. He even went so faras to hand write two pages of rod maker contacts in my area. One heck of a nice guy -- who makes a quality product. My 2cnts. -Mark you can call Lon at 207-781-5235. His forms come very wel finishedand Ithink that they are one heck of a deal. from channer@hubwest.com Fri Apr 3 00:56:39 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A86166C0140; Thu, 02 Apr 1998 23:57:37 MST Subject: Re: Motors... At 09:06 PM 4/2/98 +0000, you wrote:I tried attaching my dip tube set up to a rod turner spinning at 4 rpm. I honestly thought it was too fast. Also, I didn't like the I would like to hear on/off list sources/types of motors people have used or would recommend. Thanks in advance, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon;Why use a motor? I use an old cheap fly reel I had, gives me all thecontrol I need and didn't cost me anything.I imagine any kind of reel wouldwork, just use fly line backing on it so it doesn't twist. My .02John Channer from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 3 00:58:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: 7' 4 wt. Taper Darryl,I,in my infinite ignorance, have been pushing above the 220,000 stresslinewith fine tips from .054 up-even on 8' tapers- for some time now. I havefoundthe only trouble to be a set (after lifting large fish )which I can take outeasily. So far no delams or breaks. I find the finer tips give a softer feelto straight line tapers and also gives me room to add wood here and takeitaway there without adding weight appreciably. I think we've becomelocked into the 220,000 oz./ sq. in. thru "the book". Just my $.02.Regards,Hank. from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Apr 3 07:00:11 1998 Subject: Re: Tight budget At 09:10 PM 4/2/98 -0500, you wrote:I have Barnes's modest book and I guess that it would not be very wellreceived onthis list because he makes rodmaking look too simple. look atthis book. How can planing and gluing 6 strips of bamboo together be thatdifficult? Terry Mr. George Barnes,Now that we have put you on the spot, I would like to here from theauthor. How much has your technic changed? It's my understanding, fromyour postings, that you are still using wood forms. Is this correct? I'msure you use a binder. Is this correct? The questions go on and on. Ifyou would rather keep your dog out of this fight I willunderstand.....although you started it in 1977. ;-) Gary P.S. If I were to send you my copy would you sign it for me? from sekarkkain@NCSBSR03OU.ntc.nokia.com Fri Apr 3 07:11:56 1998 QAA13210 for; Fri, 3 Apr 1998 16:11:42 +0300 (EET DST) Windows NT(tm)) +0300 OU) Subject: Re: Motors...and planes. I was just wondering if anyone has used PC-controlled stepper motor to do the job. Come on, guys? There must be at least one computer freak whohas done it. After all, this is 90`s. And why not, if both electronics and rodmaking are close to your heart,why not to combine them such a producing way? Seppo PS. Received my Stanley 9 1/2 a couple a weeks ago, at least mine is #12- 020. The quality of the plane was not completely satisfying, because there was a casting defect on the body of the plane. Fortunately, it is just cosmetic matter. Other thing that "ate my nerves" was that there was a scratch on the sole of the plane. I think I will overcome this, though. In a message dated 98-04-02 21:08:46 EST, you write: used or would recommend. Jon: Grangers is one source. Relatively inexpensive, reversible gear motorsdown to one rpm. With one rpm, a 1-1/4 wooden spool would provideabout4"/min. I use a string over wooden pullys (shop made) tho, so that I canmanually lower the sections into the tube, ie., it takes only a little forceto cause the string to slip on the wooden pullys. Regards,Richard from dhaftel@att.com Fri Apr 3 07:48:51 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 08:50:21-0500 Subject: RE: Tight budget 4.0.995.52 Mark, What does Lon charge for the gauge and tip?? I had the pleasure oftalking to him at the Somerset, NJ Fly-stuff Show in Jan., but I forgotwhat he told me the price was... I do remember that it was a Starretttip, though, but I'm not sure who made the gauge. Lon is a really great guy to talk to, BTW. We stood around and "jawed" booth (not the least of which was my friend who had the unmitigated gallto actually BUY something while we talked!). He's one of those rarefolks who'll take the time to explain things, and in plain English! Dennis HaftelIST-COE/APT(732) 805-2714dhaftel@att.com -----Original Message-----From: Mark A. Tripp [SMTP:tripp@olywa.net]Sent: Friday, April 03, 1998 12:46 AM Subject: Re: Tight budget I just received one of Lon's forms, and must agree. For the price, theyare nicely worked. Since I was already ordering, I also got one of thegauges w/tip that he sells. Being a novice, I found Lon to be greatly encouraging. He even went so faras to hand write two pages of rod maker contacts in my area. One heck of a nice guy -- who makes a quality product. My 2cnts. -Mark you can call Lon at 207-781-5235. His forms come very wel finishedand Ithink that they are one heck of a deal. from jfoster@gte.net Fri Apr 3 08:36:12 1998 Subject: [Fwd: QUERY] 91943894BB08F56EB13171BC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 91943894BB08F56EB13171BC Reed Can you or someone help the fellow. jerry --------------91943894BB08F56EB13171BC (Intermail v3.1 117 242) with ESMTP Fri, 3 Apr 1998 09:28:46 +0200 (MET DST) Subject: QUERY HiPerhaps this is not right, but I have recieved a question about Pezon etMichel 8 foot Galla,Parabolic.Unfortunately I don't know too much about them. Can you help me with theoriginator, year for making this etc.Would I also be permitted to add your site to minehttp://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6392/SincerelyHarry --------------91943894BB08F56EB13171BC-- from jfoster@gte.net Fri Apr 3 08:38:02 1998 Subject: [Fwd: Cane Rods] 7A84358DD8811DCA663F3751" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 7A84358DD8811DCA663F3751 Can one of our Norwegian friends give this guy a hand. Thanks Jerry --------------7A84358DD8811DCA663F3751 (Intermail v3.1 117 242) with ESMTP Subject: Cane Rods jerry, I purchased cane rods from Asbjorn Horgard in Trondheim in the1960-1970's and found them to be of superior quality. I contacted themrecently and they informed me that they sold all their bamboo andcomponents and that I should contact a rod builder by the name of AvidNygard, Astronomvn.38, 7036 Trondheim, Norway. I called him but he didnot speak english. I have since written him but he has not replied. Doyou have any contacts in Norway which I might contact in my quest forthese Norwegian rod blanks? Thank you for your help. Frank Bis --------------7A84358DD8811DCA663F3751-- from dryfly@erols.com Fri Apr 3 09:00:37 1998 Subject: Re: Tight budget I got a depth gauge from Lon a year ago March and it was $100. Worksfine. Bob Haftel, Dennis, CT wrote: Mark, What does Lon charge for the gauge and tip?? I had the pleasure oftalking to him at the Somerset, NJ Fly-stuff Show in Jan., but I forgotwhat he told me the price was... I do remember that it was a Starretttip, though, but I'm not sure who made the gauge. Lon is a really great guy to talk to, BTW. We stood around and "jawed" booth (not the least of which was my friend who had the unmitigatedgallto actually BUY something while we talked!). He's one of those rarefolks who'll take the time to explain things, and in plain English! Dennis HaftelIST-COE/APT(732) 805-2714dhaftel@att.com -----Original Message-----From: Mark A. Tripp [SMTP:tripp@olywa.net]Sent: Friday, April 03, 1998 12:46 AM Subject: Re: Tight budget I just received one of Lon's forms, and must agree. For the price, theyare nicely worked. Since I was already ordering, I also got one of thegauges w/tip that he sells. Being a novice, I found Lon to be greatly encouraging. He even went sofaras to hand write two pages of rod maker contacts in my area. One heck of a nice guy -- who makes a quality product. My 2cnts. -Mark you can call Lon at 207-781-5235. His forms come very wel finishedand Ithink that they are one heck of a deal. from dryfly@erols.com Fri Apr 3 09:08:43 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... Jon The stepper motor kit from H&R doesn't inlcude a power supply. Makesure you ask about one if you order the kit (adds another $13 to thecost of the kit). Furthermore, you'll need to add a pulley wheel orsome other way of spooling the string. Works fairly slick in that you can speed up, slow down, reverse andpause...and oh yeah, lest I forget, lots of flashing red lights. Bob Jerry Foster wrote: Jon look under supplies on the web page, there's a listing for herbach andrademan, almost near the bottom, they sell stepper motors assembledandin kits for less than $25. call them and get a catalog. jerry from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Apr 3 09:57:49 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAB47390 Subject: Sv: [Fwd: Cane Rods] JAA17846 -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----Fra: Jerry Foster Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Emne: [Fwd: Cane Rods] Can one of our Norwegian friends give this guy a hand. Thanks Jerry Jerry I've send the guy a note, telling him to contact me if he think I can be ofanyhelp. Norwegian and danish (not hte pastry) is very much related. regards Carsten from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Fri Apr 3 10:12:50 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 03 Apr 98 11:11:27 EST Subject: Re: [Fwd: 8ft 7wt] AJ, Thanks abunch for reposting that taper 8'-7wt.. The original neverdid get to me. Much appreciated. Bob. At 01:06 PM 4/2/98 -0800, you wrote:Message-ID: Date: Tue, 24 Mar 1998 10:14:35 -0800From: "A.J.Thramer" Organization: A.J. Thramer Bamboo RodsX-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (Win95; I)MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: 8ft 7wt Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 0 .0805 .09410 .11015 .12620 .14025 .15830 .17435 .19440 .21245 .22650 .23455 .24260 .24865 .27670 .30275 .32480 .34085 .360to 96" .360This is a Px taperA.J.Thramer Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Apr 3 10:35:48 1998 Subject: Re: 4'4" 4wt 453 Has anyone actually built this taper? If so, can you provide input re theoutcome?J. SniderAt 09:49 AM 4/2/98 -0800, you wrote:Someone asked for a 4'4" 2pc 4wt 0- .0685- .08410- .09615- .11420- .12825- .14430- .15835- .17640- .19245- .220to 52 .220 It uses an 11/64 ferrule based on a D taper 1 7/16ozFell free to use a 3wt alsoA.J.Thramer from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 3 10:37:40 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... I tried attaching my dip tube set up to a rod turner spinning at 4 rpm. I honestly thought it was too fast. Also, I didn't like the Slow down the pull rate in another way. Use the old blockand tackle method. Get some monofilament - 10 lb. testis fine, but get the better grade that has a harder slickerfinish. Tie the end to your hook on the ceiling, bring it downto the top of your dip tube, through the eye of a snap swivel(the type for spin fishing), back up to the hook, loop it over the hook, then back down to the dowel being turned byyour rod turning motor. Use some mono to tie a loop on yourblank or rod, hook it to the snap swivel. See what this does? doubles the length of line needed to raisethe rod out of the dip tube, reducing the pull rate to half of yourprevious pull rate. To reverse, pull the dowel out of the rod turning motor and spin it Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 3 10:41:29 1998 Subject: Re: 7' 4 wt. Taper In a message dated 4/2/98 11:02:31 PM Pacific Standard Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: Darryl,I,in my infinite ignorance, have been pushing above the 220,000 stress linewith fine tips from .054 up-even on 8' tapers- for some time now. I have foundthe only trouble to be a set (after lifting large fish )which I can takeouteasily. So far no delams or breaks. I find the finer tips give a softerfeelto straight line tapers and also gives me room to add wood here and takeitaway there without adding weight appreciably. I think we've becomelockedinto the 220,000 oz./ sq. in. thru "the book". Just my $.02. There is a grey area for max stress. I wouldn't think twice about 220 to240,000. 240 to 260,000 I would look at the application, not that high I think I would avoid, unless it was a rod for myself, and only used for small fish. Darryl Hayashida from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Apr 3 11:17:09 1998 JAA20073 Subject: Re: Motors... I'll 2nd that - lots of flashing lights. My wife and friends think the wholesystem looks like something from a 1950's B-rated Sci-Fi movie! Robert S Williams wrote: Jon The stepper motor kit from H&R doesn't inlcude a power supply. Makesure you ask about one if you order the kit (adds another $13 to thecost of the kit). Furthermore, you'll need to add a pulley wheel orsome other way of spooling the string. Works fairly slick in that you can speed up, slow down, reverse andpause...and oh yeah, lest I forget, lots of flashing red lights. Bob from cmj@post11.tele.dk Fri Apr 3 11:23:31 1998 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA47942 Subject: Sv: [Fwd: Cane Rods] LAA08871 -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----Fra: Jerry Foster Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Emne: [Fwd: Cane Rods] Can one of our Norwegian friends give this guy a hand. Thanks Jerry JerryI am embarrassed to admit, that in my feverish pushing all of the buttonsof myPC, I clumsily deleted the forwarded enclosed message from Frank Bis.Could Youplease re-mail it to me? regards Carsten "Hit'em when You can"Jorgensencmj@post11.tele.dk from thramer@presys.com Fri Apr 3 11:50:00 1998 0000 Subject: 4'4" 4wt Built? I am apalled that someone would think that I would post an imaginarytaper! Tapers are proven by the result NOT by what the computer saysthey are going to do. I have built 7 of the 4'4" rods. A med fast taperthat is surprisingly not a toy. Some have lined them with a DT 3 tospeed the rod up to fast.A.J.Thramer from sniderja@email.uc.edu Fri Apr 3 12:17:11 1998 Subject: Re: 4'4" 4wt Built? Don't be apalled at all!! You misinterpret my message, or perhaps Imisstated (as usual). I am absolutely thrilled that this is a REAL rod--Iam a short rod fanatic, and I have a friend that is even worse. I recently absolutelyloved it--except that it was a tad too long! I would like to make this(your) taper in a one piece, nodeless. Any recommendations/comments?And truly, thanks for the short taper!Jerry SniderUnfortunately, I recently was stung on a computerized taper for a 5 foot 5wt someone published based on a known taper for an 8 footer. Spent 60hoursbuilding the thing, and about all it is good for is a decent spinning rod(shudder!!) blank (although it DOES throw a 7 wt line rather decently.) At 09:54 AM 4/3/98 -0800, you wrote:I am apalled that someone would think that I would post an imaginarytaper! Tapers are proven by the result NOT by what the computer saysthey are going to do. I have built 7 of the 4'4" rods. A med fast taperthat is surprisingly not a toy. Some have lined them with a DT 3 tospeed the rod up to fast.A.J.Thramer from saweiss@flash.net Fri Apr 3 12:36:01 1998 Subject: classes Does anyone know of a good rodmaking class available within reasonabledriving distance of Albuquerque NM?Steve Weiss from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 3 12:42:21 1998 Subject: Pezon & Michel salmon rod Here is a taper for a rod I am re varnishing. It is 9 1/2 feet long, with 39"sections. It has a 6 inch removable fighting butt, that also allows it to becast two handed. I believe an 8 weight line will be correct. The action ofthis rod is slow, and it is as comfortable to cast as a cane rod of this sizeand line weight can be. Dimensions are without varnish. tip3/4" - .0805-.09510-.11715-.14020-.15525-.17230-.19435-.20537.5- .212 mid3"- .2435- .24310-.25115-.26020-.26925-.27630-.28535-.29637.5- .296 butt3"-.3195-.32510-.33515-.34520-.35525-.36628-.380 from CALucker@aol.com Fri Apr 3 13:35:38 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... I use a 900 to 1 gear reducer that I picked up when they closed the ShipsCoffee Shop in Westwood in 1984. The gear reducer was used to rotatethe piedisplay by the Coffee Shop cash register. I hook up a 1140 RPM motor andwithdraw at 1.1 inches per minute. I have also used the 16 RPM hardware store barbecue motor for $32.00, butIhad to add too many other pulleys to may contraption to get thewithdrawalrate around the magic inch per minute rate for Spitani or InterluxSchoonerVarnish. For Epafanes I withdraw at about 2.25 inches per minute.Chris Lucker from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Apr 3 14:09:03 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... In a message dated 98-04-02 23:37:53 EST, you write: Jon: Make that "Grainger".RT from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Apr 3 14:09:27 1998 Subject: Re: 7' 4 wt. Taper In a message dated 98-04-03 02:12:03 EST, you write: Hank: You are in pretty good company. Check out the Payne (Grayrock 96)inthe taper archives on the RM's page. A great rod. Also, there is a 7- 0Paynethat I've cast that was very nice, indeed. It was reported to have a # 3 tiptop. Regards,RTyree from thramer@presys.com Fri Apr 3 14:35:28 1998 Subject: Re: classes Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: Does anyone know of a good rodmaking class available within reasonabledriving distance of Albuquerque NM?Steve Weiss I believe that they give some type of instruction at Alta Vista ClassicAnglers in Phoenix. 602-277-3111.I suppose you will have to define reasonable but closer than MichiganA.J.Thramer from jdunnigan@wyle.com Fri Apr 3 14:48:13 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id AAA5227 0800 Subject: Classes in SF Bay =_NextPart_000_01BD5EFD.D46249F0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5EFD.D46249F0 OK Since we are on the subject of classes, how about some classes in the SanFranbay area in California. Anyone have any ideas? Jack------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5EFD.D46249F0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD5EFD.D46249F0-- from jfoster@gte.net Fri Apr 3 15:23:30 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: [Fwd: Cane Rods] thanks Carsten jerry from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Apr 3 15:38:59 1998 Subject: Nylon thread - FS or swap All, With all the talk about thread, I remembered that I've got a 8.5"x11"x4"box crammed full of nylon thread that I'll never use and that I shouldclear off the storage shelf. The spools range from several large 2400 yd spools of "C" size thread ondown to 50 yd spools of "00" - in all kinds of colors. Some Gudebrod,some Holland and some not marked as to Mfg. I believe some of theGudebrod spools are in colors not produced today. I'd swap for silk thread or ?? If anyone's interested, please email me off list. Don Burns flyfisher@cmix.com OR canerods@aol.com from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Apr 3 16:50:34 1998 Subject: Re: classes Steve -You do have a couple of options west of the Mississippi - I know thatRalphMoon has given classes over the years - he is located in Idaho - he is a listmember but I don't have an e-mail handy. At one time Jack Howell livedandmade rods in your town - I have tried to raise Jack lately without success-Jack is the author of the new book The Lovely Reed - If you get ahold ofJackhe might be willing to help you out. Jack - You too have several local rod makers - at one time Sir D talked ofhavingclasses - I don't know where exactly he is with it - perhaps he might do anindividual lesson. One of the big obsticles with classes is the tool thing - let's say thateach student requires $850 worth of tools - if you want several students- say7 - which is a good number to make it worth the instructors while - youcantie up close to $7000 when you throw in the extras - then consider a placetoconduct the classes - then add in food for everyone - it can become aproject. Wayne from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Apr 3 17:05:06 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... Richard If you varnished then put guides on - then let the bugger run!If you got guides on - then you have to pay attention to every lastdetail - so if you do that then what good is the motor - Additionally, just to stir the brine, you really want a non-linear speedwhenpullingsections - one speed does not fit all - slower near the butt - faster nearerto the tip. Control is the word. Chris On Thu, 2 Apr 1998 23:50:24 EST, Fallcreek9 wrote: In a message dated 98-04-02 22:53:42 EST, you write: No electrical devices, come on, what fun is that. I guess its a good way to practice the hand twist retreive. Chris - powered thru a timer, it is also a good way to do other thingswhilethe section is inching its way out. RTyree Regards Chris from gwbarnes@gwi.net Fri Apr 3 17:12:59 1998 Subject: Re: Tight budget 91085758145EDF8869C73F8E" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 91085758145EDF8869C73F8E Heidt wrote: At 09:10 PM 4/2/98 -0500, you wrote:I have Barnes's modest book and I guess that it would not be very wellreceived onthis list because he makes rodmaking look too simple. look atthis book. How can planing and gluing 6 strips of bamboo together bethatdifficult? Terry Mr. George Barnes,Now that we have put you on the spot, I would like to here from theauthor. Gary: First off, I'm not Mr. for two reasons. I'm so old it frightens me whensomeonesays Mr. Barnes. The other, when my Father, an old time yacht skipper, saidmister with his special tone of voice reserved for such terms, it was timetostep back out of the way. As for your first question, would it suffice to say that I still use the sameold hunting knife to split cane? I've one steel set of forms, a number made of aluminum but the usualapproachis to use a wooden form made from hard maple, ground pins every fiveinches andadjusted with push/pull screws. I've gone through a series of binders. Started with simple bobbins, then ontoa binder built on the pattern used by Cecil Pierce, a Milwood type which Inever really got adjusted, then a modification of one of the other binderthatworked fine, ending up with a Garrison type made from aluminum andbrass. Thelast my favorite as it's the smoothest working of all. Heat treating went from the pipe and blow torch to a vertical double tubeovenheated with a heat gun to a full blown insulated electric heat strip jobwiththermostat. When I started there was nothing really available except top secrets. Whatgotme going was when I tried to but some milled strips from Orvis and theyessentially told me I was crazy. (That's one thing that hasn't changed)Found abit of information in an old Fishing Encyclopedia and went from there. Thefirst form was not adjustable and getting two strips alike, let alone six,tookconsiderable verbal instructions to both plane and form. The most recent adventure came as a result of watching the thread on thevalueof brass ferrules. I chose to believe our English friend that they areperfectly acceptable but as usual went whole hog. I decided some brassreelseats would be attractive. Have finished four, three with bubinga woodinsertsand the fourth with mansonia. Excellent contrast. Have been "milking thebrains" of several epoxy makers and have enough information now to coatthebrass with epoxy to prevent corrosion and discoloration. No problem with the book. Send it along and I'll get it back to you. I'm attaching a photo of a F. E. Thomas Special taper just recentlycompleted.(Just look at the rod not the photography.) The case is iroko, also known asAfrican teak but not a member of the teak family. Also attaching photo ofbrassreel seat. George> from CALucker@aol.com Fri Apr 3 17:40:07 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... Regarding your thoughts about needing different varnish dip tubewithdarwalspeeds for different diameter rod sections (ferrule end of a butt vs corkend, onespeed is just fine. I use 1.1 inches per minute for all sections because Ivarnish as many as six sections at a time. At this slow of a withdrawalrateyou get even coats.Chris Lucker from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Apr 3 17:49:22 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... Wow - a power varnisher! the Binford 2000 Turbo finisher! But you are right - need a slow speed - finishing is not a raceto see how fast you can do it. Takes time and patience. chris Fri, 3 Apr 1998 18:39:24 EST, CA Lucker wrote: Regarding your thoughts about needing different varnish dip tubewithdarwalspeeds for different diameter rod sections (ferrule end of a butt vs corkend, onespeed is just fine. I use 1.1 inches per minute for all sections because Ivarnish as many as six sections at a time. At this slow of a withdrawalrateyou get even coats.Chris Lucker Regards Chris from Canerods@aol.com Fri Apr 3 18:05:04 1998 Subject: Re: Custom Order For Silk Thread I just remembered there was someone posting (maybe a year ago) that saidhepurchased all of B-C's remaining silk trhread stock. Does anyone still havethat person's name? Don from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Apr 3 18:35:12 1998 Subject: Re:Slow Motors... ChrisAt this slooww rate do you still have to stop for guides?-(assuming thatyouput guides on before varnishing) Rob from WDHCJL@aol.com Fri Apr 3 19:30:04 1998 Subject: Anyone know Richard Shillers E-mail # Sorry for the space but bumped into Dick in the Smokey Mountains lastweek andwe ended up parting company without exchanging such things. Dickshowed me a$500. reel seat, amazing!! Did have the wonderful opportunity to meetStanSmart, short visit but longer next time! Thanks.doug hall from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Apr 3 19:31:25 1998 Subject: Re: classes Steve -I just got off the phone with Jack Howell - he too is now living east ofthe Misssissippi - however his plans are taking him west of the pacificsoon -sorry for the miss information. Wayne from CALucker@aol.com Fri Apr 3 20:03:37 1998 Subject: Re: Slow Motors... I always put guides on before dipping. I stop and either use one of thoseblow- ball lense cleaner things, or if I can't find where I left the blow-ball.I use a straw or a piece of tubing to blow the varnish out of the guides.After about twenty seconds or so I start again. My finishing steps are:tung oil on bare straightened and clean blankwrap guides50/50 or so varnish and Windsor- Newton Turpentine on wrapsrepeat90/10 varnish/thinner on wrapsDip tubeDip tubeDip tubeIf the rod is for me I don't rub out the varnish. If the rod is for someoneelse, I think about rubbing the varnish and talk myself out of it. Myvarnishjobs look better than that found on a Leonard, Edwards, Thomas, Garrison,Powell, etc, but not as good as a Howells, Payne or old T&T. Chris Lucker from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Fri Apr 3 20:28:40 1998 8.7/8.7) id Subject: Re: Nylon thread - FS or swap Don,Any chance of getting a reading on your 00 nylon thread colors? I havea similar thread box (silk & nylon), but ya' never know when someonewantsa nylon color that just isn't in the box :>) I'll dig through the threadbox to see if there are any silk threads - do you have any specific needsat the moment - no jaspers, of course : from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Apr 3 20:44:24 1998 Subject: Re: Tight budget George,Great looking rod and case!I tried making some harps from Iroko once, nearly killed me. The dustof that wood is one of the most toxic I've found. My lungs couldn'thandle it.BTW, do you have any copies of your book available for sale?Best regards,Reedrcurry@top.monad.net from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Apr 3 21:11:43 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... In a message dated 98-04-03 18:16:59 EST, you write: from FLYROD777@aol.com Fri Apr 3 21:21:31 1998 Subject: Re: classes If you can afford to get up to Mich. go to Waynes, it is worth it and thefellowship is unmeasurable. Mark from jfoster@gte.net Fri Apr 3 21:22:00 1998 Subject: web Added mar 98 to archives jerry from davidjrogers@hotmail.com Fri Apr 3 21:23:46 1998 Fri, 03 Apr 1998 19:23:13 PST Subject: Cutting bamboo on a tablesaw I was messing around with cutting bamboo on my tablesaw and found that all I could get was a bunch of jitter and frayed bamboo. Anyone know what kind of blade I need to cut bamboo on a tablesaw? Is the motor on a tablesaw too slow? I couldn't rip or do crosscuts. ______________________________________________________Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Apr 3 21:31:38 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... Another source of motors is from old turntables. You remember, they spunthin, flat, usually black disks at speeds from 33-78 r.p.m. Best regards,Reed from FLYROD777@aol.com Fri Apr 3 21:32:23 1998 Subject: Re: Motors... If your on a budget use an old fly reel. It works fine and you can stop andstart as you need. As for the tank I used a pipe like Wayne has in his bookand built a portable dustfree containment area on top of the pipe. It onlycost me a few bucks. I cut two circles in half inch plywood and gluedvelcroon the edge of each. Than I bought a piece of clear vinal and sew velcro onthe top and the bottom. I attach the two pieces of wood with four piecesofpvc pipe. I basically looks like a big trash can that is clear. Put a holein the bottom piece of plywood for the pie to fit in so when you lift therodout it is in th container. I put a lamp in it to get some heat in it. Thedoor is also velcroed (sp?) It's cheap and being in the Navy it helps when Imove. Mark H from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 3 21:54:15 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Motors... Jon et al.One of my friends who restores rods snatches the sections out of thetubeas fast as he can. He will stop at each guide to let the varnish drain offtheguide before continuing. He does beautiful work. As I have dust problems Idoit differently.Regards,Hank. from RckyMtKane@aol.com Fri Apr 3 22:28:30 1998 Subject: Re: classes Steve and anyone interested:I have been doing classes on a one-on-one basis and recently did a classwith three students with a great deal of success. I was doing this on atrialbasis to see if I wanted to continue to teach rod building and for the timebeing I guess I will. Call me if you are interested. This is 25 miles N. ofDenver. P.S. Check out my web site at www.jearguello.com Joe E. Arguello303-857-1507rckymtkane@aol.com from rcurry@top.monad.net Fri Apr 3 22:36:44 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote:of the rod. He is also an advocate for longer (9 ft.) rods. Doesanyone have any reaction to his claims in the rod design section?Jim,He certainly is right about longer rods, IMHO. Also, his statementsabout tip-heavy (clubby) parabolics is true in my experience. Actually,most of what he said seems like goodness to me.I wouldn't mind trying his 9' 4oz rod.Best regards,Reed from saweiss@flash.net Fri Apr 3 22:56:14 1998 Subject: Re: classes -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: classes Steve -You do have a couple of options west of the Mississippi - I know thatRalphMoon has given classes over the years - he is located in Idaho - he is alistmember but I don't have an e-mail handy. At one time Jack Howell livedandmade rods in your town - I have tried to raise Jack lately withoutsuccess -Jack is the author of the new book The Lovely Reed - If you get ahold ofJackhe might be willing to help you out. Wayne,I also know Jack, but he now lives in New Zealand. You may know that heisa concert clarinetist. I guess one goes where the work is. from KDLoup@aol.com Fri Apr 3 22:59:22 1998 Subject: Re: Cutting bamboo on a tablesaw David,I tossed around the idea of making a case out of a section of bamboo. Asan experiment, I used my tablesaw to make the end cuts. They came outperfect. I used a Freud teflon coated thin kerf carbide blade with 24 teeth(ripping). I haven't tried making rip cuts though. Kurt Loup from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Apr 4 01:45:38 1998 Subject: Re: classes In a message dated 4/3/98 2:51:38 PM Pacific Standard Time,WayneCatt@aol.comwrites: You too have several local rod makers - at one time Sir D talked ofhavingclasses - I don't know where exactly he is with it - perhaps he might doanindividual lesson. Still trying to work out the finances of obtaining the tools. The Long BeachCasting Club wants to have the classes, and they have the perfectfacilities having the classes on weekends, probably four weekends in a row, maybetwice a year. The only thing stopping us is getting the planing forms andother tools. I think they want to keep the tools at the clubhouse for peopleto use on their own when if they want to try it by themselves. It would benice if we could get an oven, binder, dip tube and lathe also. Anybody have any rod building tools to donate to the Long Beach Casting Club? They are a non profit organization, and you can write off thedonation on your taxes.... Darryl Hayashida from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Sat Apr 4 05:01:33 1998 (8.8.7/8.6.11)with SMTP id MAA20722 for ; Sat, 4 Apr1998 12:02:59+0100 Subject: Parabolic Pezon &. Michele I've just acquired a very nice circa 1965 - 70 Pezon &. Michel 9' staggeredferrule (6") Parabolic. It is without markings, but looks as though itmight throw a #6, but it would be interesting to hear from anyone whoknowsthis range of rods as to what else it might be. It has a small all aluminium'up' reel fitting into a cork hooded upper seat. It's as straight as anarrow (unusual for Pezon &. Michel). Does anyone have a note of what the markings should be on this rod. I'dliketo restore it to new appearance. The rod is wrapped black, but this may beare- wrap. Thanks in advance for any information. John Cooper (England) from fishhack@juno.com Sat Apr 4 07:01:36 1998 08:00:44 EST Subject: Need quad taper 5-6wt. I was wondering if anyone could suggest a quad taper for a 6ft. /7ft. rod thanks.Stuart Darden _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from m.boretti@agonet.it Sat Apr 4 08:55:33 1998 Subject: R: Parabolic Pezon &. Michele Dear Mr. Cooper,If you want info about your Pezon et Michel 9', write or contact : LA MAISON DE' LA MAOUCHE1 Boulvard Henry IV 75004 Paris ( France )Phone 1.43.54.60.46 this is a very nice shop where it's possible to buy any sort of pieces ofrecange ( thread - ferrule - snake - reel seats ) about Pezon et Michel, news andoldest. SincerelyMarco Boretti m.boretti@agonet.it ----------Da: J.Cooper A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: sabato 4 aprile 1998 13.00 I've just acquired a very nice circa 1965 - 70 Pezon &. Michel 9'staggeredferrule (6") Parabolic. It is without markings, but looks as though itmight throw a #6, but it would be interesting to hear from anyone whoknowsthis range of rods as to what else it might be. It has a small allaluminium'up' reel fitting into a cork hooded upper seat. It's as straight as anarrow (unusual for Pezon &. Michel). Does anyone have a note of what the markings should be on this rod. I'dliketo restore it to new appearance. The rod is wrapped black, but this maybe are- wrap. Thanks in advance for any information. John Cooper (England) from tball@mail.portup.com Sat Apr 4 09:02:06 1998 Subject: Tightbond II boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD5FA8.EE930980" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD5FA8.EE930980 What is the thermal destruction point of this glue. Making my first =nodeless rod, I spliced my splines and was thermal setting the bamboo. =Oven got hotter than I wanted. About the 390 mark. The scarf joints =had brown lines where some glue wasn't scraped off. I let the splines =cool down and then flexed the splines and they all seem to hold just =fine. Will these scarf joints let go after I glue and finish the whole =rod or did I just luck out? Tom from Trout Lake ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD5FA8.EE930980 What is the thermal destruction = = from Trout Lake ------=_NextPart_000_0032_01BD5FA8.EE930980-- from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Apr 4 09:17:59 1998 (205.236.249.106) Subject: Need for accuracy? Imagine putting all your slines together, as per gluing up and thenlooking at the end section. there should be a perfect hexagon and each'across the flat dimension' should measure the same. This being so takeone spline out and put in your planing form and remove another .001 andthen put it back in place and re-measure. The across flat measurementwill .002 undersize! from that .001 that was removed most of it was pithright?Just a thought,Terry from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 4 09:22:22 1998 Subject: Re:Slow Motors... Rob Yes you have to stop for guides - the varnish on the guide itselfhas a tendency to run down onto the rod and cause a run. Stop and letthe varnish flow off a guide then procede. Chris On Fri, 3 Apr 1998 19:34:03 EST, Nodewrrior wrote: ChrisAt this slooww rate do you still have to stop for guides?-(assuming thatyouput guides on before varnishing) Rob Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 4 09:35:50 1998 Subject: Re: Tightbond II TomAccording to Borden Custom Pak - that is a point of contentionwithinthe glue indrustry. Just how strong the glue is after a heating to thesetemps.I did much worse in an unintended experiment and did the wise thing likeyouand let the strips cool off before flexing - seems to have full strength.Theproblemwith heat is flexing while it is hot will produce a failure. I would say youare safewith those strips.Now to advoid the problem - heat treat the internodal sections beforespliting and splicing - no need to heat treat latter. Chris On Sat, 4 Apr 1998 09:06:18 -0500, Tom wrote: What is the thermal destruction point of this glue. Making my firstnodelessrod, I spliced my splines and was thermal setting the bamboo. Oven gothotterthan I wanted. About the 390 mark. The scarf joints had brown lineswhere someglue wasn't scraped off. I let the splines cool down and then flexed thesplines and they all seem to hold just fine. Will these scarf joints let goafter I glue and finish the whole rod or did I just luck out? Tom from Trout Lake Regards Chris from flyh2o@worldnet.att.net Sat Apr 4 10:04:39 1998 (post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with SMTP id AAA7637 Subject: Re: Parabolic Pezon &. Michele PM made an 8 ft 10 inch 4wt "Sawyer" nymph rod in which the butt wasferruled into the handle/reel seat section, technically a 3 piece rod.Believe wrap colors depended on the grade of the rod, "PPP" being thehighest grade, "Normale" grade was done in red. I have a Super Parabolic PPP and wraps are green tipped with red.Signature wrap is the "tricoulor", blue,white,red. This is a 7'6'' 5wtrod, the "Super Colorado" and the reel seat is the normal PM corkinsert,downlock aluminum seat in a sort of purplish color. I also have a "Fario Club" made for Abercrombie and Fitch by PM. Brownwraps with the inside ends of wraps tipped darker brown. Reel seat isaliminum and of the powell type. Have seen other PM ritz tapers made forNorm Thompson and Abc. Ftch. and they were similiar. The Super Coloradodescribed above is I believe more typical of PM though I understand theSawyer Nymph rod was also done in brown. Have never personally seen a 9ft PM though I have seen them on lists up to10 ft. At 12:00 PM 4/4/98 +0100, you wrote:I've just acquired a very nice circa 1965 - 70 Pezon &. Michel 9'staggeredferrule (6") Parabolic. It is without markings, but looks as though itmight throw a #6, but it would be interesting to hear from anyone whoknowsthis range of rods as to what else it might be. It has a small allaluminium'up' reel fitting into a cork hooded upper seat. It's as straight as anarrow (unusual for Pezon &. Michel). Does anyone have a note of what the markings should be on this rod. I'dliketo restore it to new appearance. The rod is wrapped black, but this maybe are- wrap. Thanks in advance for any information. John Cooper (England) Mike Leitheiser "When the trout are lost, smash the state."Tom McGuane from RckyMtKane@aol.com Sat Apr 4 10:35:43 1998 Subject: Salt Lake City To the Gentleman In Salt Lake:I ment to respond to your E-mail, but inadvertantly deleted yourmessage. Sorry about that please resend your E- mail address and I'm surewecan work out a time! Sorry to the list for this message.Joe from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Apr 4 10:52:41 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolic Pezon &. Michele John,I couldn't find any reference to that particular length/model but Ihave some catalogues I haven't checked yet.Have you tried asking at Turner's? Follow this lead:http://www.turners1838fly.demon.co.uk/pezon.htm Best regards,Reed from stpete@netten.net Sat Apr 4 13:18:56 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA15388 for Subject: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue Chris Bogart wrote:According to Borden Custom Pak - that is a point of contention withinthe glue indrustry. Just how strong the glue is after a heating tothese temps.I did much worse in an unintended experiment and did the wise thing likeyou and let the strips cool off before flexing - seems to have fullstrength. The problem with heat is flexing while it is hot will producea failure... Now to avoid the problem - heat treat the internodalsections before spliting and splicing - no need to heat treat latter. Regards, Chris Chris, I am at this point. Now which glue should I use to glue up therod. I'd like to use Epon but it requires heat setting. Should I stickto Resorcinal or Urac? I'd be grateful for your recommendation. Rick from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 4 13:31:29 1998 Subject: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue Rick Epon does NOT require a heat set - Nyatex does. Big difference - also the thermal deflection temp of Epon and Titebondare about the same so no problems during straightening. You would runinto problems with the other glues because they require much moreheat to straighten then Epon and could cause a failure in Titebond. Does that help? Chris On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 13:15:23 -0600, stpete wrote: Chris Bogart wrote:According to Borden Custom Pak - that is a point of contention withinthe glue indrustry. Just how strong the glue is after a heating tothese temps.I did much worse in an unintended experiment and did the wise thing likeyou and let the strips cool off before flexing - seems to have fullstrength. The problem with heat is flexing while it is hot will producea failure... Now to avoid the problem - heat treat the internodal>sectionsbefore spliting and splicing - no need to heat treat latter. Regards, Chris Chris, I am at this point. Now which glue should I use to glue up therod. I'd like to use Epon but it requires heat setting. Should I stickto Resorcinal or Urac? I'd be grateful for your recommendation. Rick Regards Chris from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Apr 4 13:58:12 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA17794 for Subject: Been disconnected again Been off for the last few days. Mike Biondo tells me the problem is withmylocal provider so I will get after Net-Gate. Anyhow If I missed anythingplease post again. Thanks. Bill from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 4 15:47:02 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA27646 for Subject: Re: Been disconnected again At 02:30 PM 4/4/98 -0500, you wrote:Been off for the last few days. Mike Biondo tells me the problem is withmylocal provider so I will get after Net- Gate. Anyhow If I missed anythingplease post again. Thanks. Bill So, Bill, I guess you didn't hear about winning the Jersey Lott.... ah....never mind. I can probably pick up your small winnings for you.Art from stpete@netten.net Sat Apr 4 16:41:07 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id RAA23588 for Subject: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue Chris Bogart wrote: Rick Epon does NOT require a heat set - Nyatex does. Bigdifference - also the thermal deflection temp of Epon and Titebondare about the same so no problems during straightening. You would runinto problems with the other glues because they require much moreheat to straighten then Epon and could cause a failure in Titebond.Does that help? Chris Chris, that helps very much. Thanks for the info. I guess I'll ordersome Epon. Any particular formula number? I'll scour the archives forthe number and source. If you have any info on the latest source andformula number I'd thank you once again. I look forward to the day when I know enough to contribute. I found outlast night my 10 year old daughter's best friend is having her 79 year old grandfather move in with them. He's coming from Idaho and has builtcane rods!! I bet he's got some old tricks. His name is Morrell. Can'twait to meet him. Rick from tripp@olywa.net Sat Apr 4 16:56:04 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0-36370U5000L500S0)with ESMTP id AAA11255 for ;Sat, 4 Apr 1998 14:58:31 -0800 Subject: Re: Tight budget Dennis: Lon is charging $110.00 Plus about 5 bucks shipping. The gauge is aMitutoyo, No. 2904F. I beleive the tip is a Starret. Regards, Mark from fishhack@juno.com Sat Apr 4 18:23:48 1998 19:22:48 EST Subject: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue Is there any reason not to use Resorcinal? Stuart DardenNorth Carolina _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from flyrod@artistree.com Sat Apr 4 20:21:11 1998 SAA04913 Subject: Britex Silk Thread Paid a visit to the Britex Fabrics in San Francisco to check out theirsilk thread supply. Very large store. Silk was located on 4th floor!They took one look at me and the first thing they said was "are you afly fisherman?" Figured that was a good sign. They were very muchintersted in expanding that side of the market. Anyway they carry abrand called "Kinkame," which is from Japan. Got a color chart whichconsists of 203 swatches of silk thread. Cost $20.00. Kind of feltlike a kid in a candy store. Being somewhat new to cane rod buildingand shying away from any type of restoration work my knowledge oftraditional silk has been somewhat limited. But here it goes. To be fair I would want to compare this to known entity. To me thiswould be the Gudebrod brand. I know for a fact (based on the latestGudebrod product brochure) that Gudebrod is Size 00 (also known as 2/0)and it's diameter is 0.005 (0.125 mm). In my opinion the Kinkame brandappears to be the same exact thread. I compared a number of samples fromeach under magnification and maybe (and this is a big maybe!) theKinkame is ever so slightly larger. But I would not call Kinkame a sizeA. (Gudebrod says size A is 0.006 (0.175 mm). In fact I would say that from a number of samples that all Gudebrod and Kinkame sizes varied justslightly between themselves and each other but not by that much. Thismight be due to manufacturing process. (i.e. different production days,quality of raw material, etc.) As for the Twist of the Gudebrod andKinkame silks they appear to be identical. Nice tight twist with Oh, what the hell. These 2 brands of thread look exactly alike! I'mthinking is this Gudebrod's supplier or what? Great selection of colors(203 colors) at a good price of $3.25 ea. for a 100 meter spool. Theysell a number of sizes and the color chart is in Japanese so this whatyou want. Kinkame Silk Thread in 100 meter spool (the black spool not the pink),in color number ???. Note: The 100 meter black spools also say #50 on them while the 50 meterpink spools say #30 on them and are a larger diameter size with a morelimited color selection. Note: The silk samples in the Kinkame Color Chart are not the same sizeand twist of thread I'm talking about. But the colors appear to beaccurate. Britex Fabrics146 Geary Street (right off of Union Square for people in the area)San Francisco, CA 94108415-392-2910web site: http://www.britexfabrics.com/ In conclusion, I think it's a fine quality product with a wide range ofcolors that will allow me to finally do my own thing as far as colorsgo. But please note that this is only my opinion and that alldisclaimers apply. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from ghinde@inconnect.com Sat Apr 4 22:42:26 1998 (may beforged)) 0000 Subject: Re: Britex Silk Thread C.J.Glad you like the thread! Thanks for looking at the diameters. I neverdid measure the actual thread diameter. I just did a side-by-sidecomparison with Gudebrod 2/0 and B.C.'s size A. Sorry I forgot about the4th floor part. GeorgeGreys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Britex Silk ThreadDate: Saturday, April 04, 1998 7:24 PM Paid a visit to the Britex Fabrics in San Francisco to check out theirsilk thread supply. Very large store. Silk was located on 4th floor!They took one look at me and the first thing they said was "are you afly fisherman?" Figured that was a good sign. They were very muchintersted in expanding that side of the market. Anyway they carry abrand called "Kinkame," which is from Japan. Got a color chart whichconsists of 203 swatches of silk thread. Cost $20.00. Kind of feltlike a kid in a candy store. Being somewhat new to cane rod buildingand shying away from any type of restoration work my knowledge oftraditional silk has been somewhat limited. But here it goes. To be fair I would want to compare this to known entity. To me thiswould be the Gudebrod brand. I know for a fact (based on the latestGudebrod product brochure) that Gudebrod is Size 00 (also known as 2/0)and it's diameter is 0.005 (0.125 mm). In my opinion the Kinkame brandappears to be the same exact thread. I compared a number of samplesfromeach under magnification and maybe (and this is a big maybe!) theKinkame is ever so slightly larger. But I would not call Kinkame a sizeA. (Gudebrod says size A is 0.006 (0.175 mm). In fact I would say that from a number of samples that all Gudebrod and Kinkame sizes variedjustslightly between themselves and each other but not by that much. Thismight be due to manufacturing process. (i.e. different production days,quality of raw material, etc.) As for the Twist of the Gudebrod andKinkame silks they appear to be identical. Nice tight twist with Oh, what the hell. These 2 brands of thread look exactly alike! I'mthinking is this Gudebrod's supplier or what? Great selection of colors(203 colors) at a good price of $3.25 ea. for a 100 meter spool. Theysell a number of sizes and the color chart is in Japanese so this whatyou want. Kinkame Silk Thread in 100 meter spool (the black spool not the pink),in color number ???. Note: The 100 meter black spools also say #50 on them while the 50meterpink spools say #30 on them and are a larger diameter size with a morelimited color selection. Note: The silk samples in the Kinkame Color Chart are not the same sizeand twist of thread I'm talking about. But the colors appear to beaccurate. Britex Fabrics146 Geary Street (right off of Union Square for people in the area)San Francisco, CA 94108415-392-2910web site: http://www.britexfabrics.com/ In conclusion, I think it's a fine quality product with a wide range ofcolors that will allow me to finally do my own thing as far as colorsgo. But please note that this is only my opinion and that alldisclaimers apply. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from bc@fyptt.fyptt.zjpta.net.cn Sun Apr 5 03:29:47 1998 Subject: introduction of a supplier fo Tonkin bamboo cane for rod making Dear Rodmaker group friends, I am a Chinese producer and exporter of Tonkin bamboo pole and own abamboo pole processing factory in Huaiji Town, where is the only oneplace in the world of distrbution of such special bamboo speices(Tonkin) for flyrod making.I am a new face to the group, and also a new man on such business ofsupplying the bamboo raw material for flyrod making even have beeninvolved in the bamboo business for many years.Our quality Tonkin canes meet the following standards by very strictlyselection. 1.No slash marks (You may know that it is very difficult to find thecane with no slash marks from other suppliers now).2.No burnning marks( We select naturally straight cane for suchspecial cane products to avoid any man made marks if cane need to bestrigthen by burnning)3.No cracks on the cane4.Very reasonable price because your buying is directly from thesupplier of the Tonkin cane original place. 5.Good color--white- yellow 6.Dried enough to avoid getting muldding7.Wide size type for your selection.45mm~50mm(in base diameter) x 3.66m (in length) 50mm~55mm(in base diameter) x 3.66m (in length) 55mm~60mm(in base diameter) x 3.66m (in length) Our year production capability is 25000 pcs (for four 40' containers)We are now looking for a wholesale customer, even also do some retailbusiness but the minimum order quantity of 100 pcs(10 bales)will berequired for retail business. WE warmly welcome your cooperation,question and suggestion .Bamboo flyrod,a enviroment friendly product,let your life morecolorful. Regards, Cao QungenHuiji Aozhai Tonkin Bamboo Cane Processing Factory Bamboo China ServiceTel/Fax:++86 571 3341953 http://www.bamboo.org/abs/BambooChinaService.html from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Apr 5 08:00:37 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net IAA12152 Subject: CORK Is there a definitive statement as to what one may expect,in quality ofcork, compared to what is ordered? I ordered some extra fine. I think it was somewhere near a buck a ring.I would have characterized two of the lot of 24 as xf, the rest wentdown hill from there. I placed one of what I considered the best rings in the first or mostprominent position on a rod and found a hole inside when I turned it. No evidence of it from the outside. I have seen a lot of post from people who frown on adding cork dust to ahandle. I would personally like to have premium cork for handles, buthave lost confidence in ordering it. I don't know how you can order onegrade of cork and recieve what I would have to call four differentgrades. This is with limited experience, just going by obvious defectsseen by the eye. Is there a solution or should I start practicing with a cork paste? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Apr 5 08:38:10 1998 Subject: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue Sturat Other than the Ugliness you can get from it if you are notreal careful - it is great for rods - however for nodeless you shouldwork with glues with the same heat charateristics for splices andsplines - the only difference between the two glues for nodelessis that for splices you want something with a quick grip and setuptime (Titebond-II) and for splines a glue with long set up time (Epon)so you have time to bind and straighten several sections at onetime. Make your own choices. Chris On Sat, 04 Apr 1998 19:22:48 EST, Stuart N Darden wrote: Is there any reason not to use Resorcinal? Stuart DardenNorth Carolina _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] Regards Chris from drinkr@voicenet.com Sun Apr 5 08:39:00 1998 0000 Subject: Info on Swell Butts I have been reading about swells in rods in the Garrison Bible and waswondering if any one wants to expound on the merits. As a rod feature Ithink it is interesting to view. How does one build it into a rod andhandle . Has anyone built it into their forms like Garrison and how is theform used with the swell built in. Is their any book or article with thisinformation that anyone can provide? Thanks in advance, David Rinker from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Apr 5 08:52:29 1998 Subject: Re: CORK Steve Many sources of cork out there - you have to find one that you cantrust with telling you the true grade of the cork and then guard thatsourcewith your life. It is hard to find. Many rodmakers buy bulk and resort againdiscarding substandard. Some of the sources out there do that and giveyou the discards and keep the good stuff. I have a wholesale source that is very good and he will tell meexactlywhat grade it is and will not sell to me if it is not up to my standards -seemsthat a lot of graphite rod builders will accept less quality stuff. Verylittleof the"really good stuff" gets to the retail market Chris On Sun, 05 Apr 1998 08:02:21 -0700, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Is there a definitive statement as to what one may expect,in quality ofcork, compared to what is ordered? I ordered some extra fine. I think it was somewhere near a buck a ring.I would have characterized two of the lot of 24 as xf, the rest wentdown hill from there. I placed one of what I considered the best rings in the first or mostprominent position on a rod and found a hole inside when I turned it. No evidence of it from the outside. I have seen a lot of post from people who frown on adding cork dust to ahandle. I would personally like to have premium cork for handles, buthave lost confidence in ordering it. I don't know how you can order onegrade of cork and recieve what I would have to call four differentgrades. This is with limited experience, just going by obvious defectsseen by the eye. Is there a solution or should I start practicing with a cork paste? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Regards Chris from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Apr 5 10:11:27 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA09285 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id KAA15026 for ; Sun, 5 Apr1998 10:11:25 Subject: Re: Britex Silk Thread Is the "Kinkame" brand what Angler's Workshop sells? The spools I have are stamped "K-N-K", but have another name on the printed label. I have size #100 which is supposed to be about 3/0 but I think it is finer. I wrapped a rod with it yesterday and my head still hurts. Last year I used it fine but this year I guess I need a magnifier. Or switch to size 50.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from anglport@con2.com Sun Apr 5 10:24:58 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA09143 for Subject: Re: CORK At 08:02 AM 4/5/98 -0700, you wrote:Is there a definitive statement as to what one may expect,in quality ofcork, compared to what is ordered? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO Steve,After dealing with mail-order cork for abut 25 years, I've taught myselftoscrutinize EVERY ring I add to a handle and thus place it where theimperfections will do the least harm. You can usually see the faultsclearlyenough to foretell whether the turning will expose them and nuts toanyonewho decides to turn it to a smaller diameter after-the-fact. Doing thatmakes an awful lot of the "crap" usable SOMEWHERE.Probably something you've already realized,Art from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Apr 5 13:33:41 1998 Subject: Re: Britex Silk Thread Chris,I just bought a spool of Kinkame silk thread friday at a sewing shop to tryout. I am very curious as to the results. The thread looked like it wasgoing to work very well.Bret from flyrod@artistree.com Sun Apr 5 14:14:38 1998 MAA11763 Subject: Re: Britex Silk Thread Frank,I meant to try the Anglers Workshop silk but decided to cancel the orderwhen I found out about Britex. I do know that the 100 meter spool of 2/0is the smallest size Britex carries. There were a few odd sized spoolsthere that I will check for the initials K-N-K but all I can tell youright now is that Kinkame silk says "Kinkame" on all but one of the spoolsI bought. That odd-man-out spool has Japanese characters on it. All thespools do have a silk worm drawing on them (Probably their logo). Hopethis helps. BTW - I taped down all the samples in the Color Chart last night and justpainted the tips of the samples with the varnish I use. Found some veryagreeable colors. Also found matches for all the Gubebrod & Pearshall'scolors I had. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Frank Stetzer wrote: Is the "Kinkame" brand what Angler's Workshop sells? The spools Ihave are stamped "K-N-K", but have another name on the printedlabel. I have size #100 which is supposed to be about 3/0 but I thinkit is finer. I wrapped a rod with it yesterday and my head still hurts. Last year I used it fine but this year I guess I need a magnifier. Orswitch to size 50.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Apr 5 18:43:37 1998 Subject: Re: Re: 7' 4 wt. Taper Richard,I don't know about the"pretty good company" but I do know that everytime Iturn out a good taper I've reinvented the wheel-but ain't it fun?Regards,Hank. from Ragnarig@aol.com Sun Apr 5 19:37:09 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro In a message dated 98-04-03 23:40:57 EST, you write: anyone have any reaction to his claims in the rod design section?Jim, >> It's always a mystery to me that more people don't take the time todeveloplonger rods in bamboo. One of my favorite rods is an old E.F. Thomas 9-footer, with which I canroll- cast better than any rod I've used. This and a few other exceptional traitsmake properly conceived longer rods tops in my book. The ability to castthree or four flies in a nice, easy loop without getting them alldiscombobulated is another valuable quality for myself and others. The idea that bamboo is only worthwhile for rods of less than eight feet inlength is often presented to me and is just evidence of lazy thinking. Thematerial is extremely versatile, but no more so than the imagination oftheone who utilizes it. Davy from d_price@global2000.net Sun Apr 5 19:42:20 1998 mail2.global2000.net (8.9.6/SecureMode) with SMTP id UAA17597 for; Sun, 5 Apr 1998 20:42:14 -0400 Subject: Re: 4'4" 4wt Built? A.J.Thramer wrote: I am apalled that someone would think that I would post an imaginarytaper! Tapers are proven by the result NOT by what the computer saysthey are going to do. I have built 7 of the 4'4" rods. A med fast taperthat is surprisingly not a toy. Some have lined them with a DT 3 tospeed the rod up to fast.A.J.Thramer A.J. what would you change if it where to be made one piece??????.Sounds like a fun rod to own!!!Dave Price from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun Apr 5 21:11:56 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Sun, 5Apr 1998 22:13:19 -0400 Subject: Crook! Two things...I have not been able to reach the rodmakers page for a few days...just me? Second...a few of you know how little time I have spent with bamboo on a stream (slim to none). Anyhow, on a rod I finished a few weeks ago I have noticed crooked tip sections. Now I know they were straight when I wrapped and finished them. I built along the straight line. Now however, after fishing for a little while (boy do they cast nice), weird things have happened. Since I don't know what a set is...a set was the first thing to come to mind. Any Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Mon Apr 6 07:34:12 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Mon, 06 Apr 98 08:19:08 EDT Subject: Re: Crook! John, A couple of things come to mind. It is not uncommon, I think, forcane rods to take a casting set, but it generally takes some time todevelop. I'm right- handed, and tend to cast in a forty-five degree plane.This has put a gradual curve down and very slightly to the left (comparedtothe back of the rod.) I think an important question to ask is whether this is necessarilya bad thing. It seems to me that there comes a point when we have to stopforcing the materials into the perfectly linear shapes we want them, andletthe tool behave the way it will, do the job we want it to. Math and sciencedo describe the universe, but it is only an approximation, and only works heaven and earth, Jon, than are dreamt of in your in all your stressanalysis. (_Hamlet_, I.v.166). Of course, it may be that there is excessive setting, and, as I'msure has occured to you, the aspects of building to address are moisturecontrol and heat treating. If the individual splines weren't pretty closeto being the same size, that, too, could cause one side of the finished rodto be stiffer than another. Eventually the rod will come into equillibriumwith the environment, and all these parameters will re-roganizethemselvesinto something new-- outside the "laboratory". Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Apr 6 07:51:46 1998 Subject: Re: Tight budget George,I stand admonished, my Dad had a Mr. look also. I feel your book is ofgreat value to any first time builder of a bamboo angle. I believe itshows that passion is more important than money and that refinement,suchas yours, only comes with time. As "they" say, from humble beginings....Well nuf of my drivel, thank you for your posting. Two things, first, how are you forming the butt cap swell for the reeltang? I've tried several methods without pleasing results. Second, if youwould e- mail me your address my copy, of your book, will be in the mail.Again thank you. Garydestintcon@mindspring.com from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Apr 6 08:06:07 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro Jim,In addition to inspecting most of Vince Marinaro's rods and rod makingtools, I actually had an opportunity to cast Vince's favorite trout rod lastweekend, the 9'4" for 7wt. "Penns Creek". Also tried his favorite salmonrodthe "Penobscot", and a 7' for 4wt, and also his "Guppy" (6' something for4wt). All of these rods that I cast were later models made during the1970's. They were all very impressive in their performance. While his bookdiscussed longer rods, and his favorites were long, the short rods wereamazing. He also built a "Guppy Junior" one ounce rod that is the mostdelicate rod I've ever seen. I took some pictures and may be able to sharewith the list when they're developed.Tom Whittle---------- Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro Jim,He certainly is right about longer rods, IMHO. Also, his statementsabout tip-heavy (clubby) parabolics is true in my experience. Actually,most of what he said seems like goodness to me.I wouldn't mind trying his 9' 4oz rod.Best regards,Reed from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 6 08:33:38 1998 Subject: Article on planes All, The April 1998 "Wooden Boat" magazine has a nice short article onplanes, chisels and spokeshaves. It shows many of the old Stanley planes- the 9 1/2 isn't one of them! Don Burns from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Apr 6 09:51:43 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro In a message dated 4/6/98 1:06:45 PM, you wrote: Tom - Are these the rods now owned by the museum in Manchester, VT?I've beeninterested in Marinaro's ideas myself, but have never gotten theopportunityto cast or measure one. Vince was so secretive that he made sure no onegotany specifics while he was alive. Any chance of measuring tapers on theserods? It would be of great interest I am sure. from rmoon@ida.net Mon Apr 6 10:57:42 1998 Subject: Re: classes Wayne I hear you! I am still doing a little teaching, but probablymore on a one to one basis than classes. To do a class does indeedrequire a logistical genius. Still I am open to suggestions. RalphMoon rmoon@ida.net from rmoon@ida.net Mon Apr 6 11:17:05 1998 Subject: Re: Crook! Mark. Interesting that you should point out that casting sets may notnecessarily be a bad thing. Depending on the dynamics of the castingstroke, I personally think that it is probably a natural occurance andnot necessarily a fault. I have no data to back up my thoughts but itmight be interesting to investigate this a little. On the other hand asyou point out severe sets are more likely to be faulty rod building.Ralph from thramer@presys.com Mon Apr 6 12:00:35 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue Stuart N Darden wrote: Is there any reason not to use Resorcinal? Stuart DardenNorth Carolina _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] No,A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Mon Apr 6 12:07:51 1998 0000 Subject: Re: 4'4" 4wt Built? David Price wrote: A.J.Thramer wrote: I am apalled that someone would think that I would post an imaginarytaper! Tapers are proven by the result NOT by what the computer saysthey are going to do. I have built 7 of the 4'4" rods. A med fast taperthat is surprisingly not a toy. Some have lined them with a DT 3 tospeed the rod up to fast.A.J.Thramer A.J. what would you change if it where to be made one piece??????.Sounds like a fun rod to own!!!Dave PriceHi Dave,If it were a one piece rod I would add a Ferrule!A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Mon Apr 6 12:09:43 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Crook! Jon Lintvet wrote: Two things...I have not been able to reach the rodmakers page for afew days...just me? Second...a few of you know how little time I have spent with bambooon a stream (slim to none). Anyhow, on a rod I finished a few weeksago I have noticed crooked tip sections. Now I know they werestraight when I wrapped and finished them. I built along thestraight line. Now however, after fishing for a little while (boydo they cast nice), weird things have happened. Since I don't knowwhat a set is...a set was the first thing to come to mind. Any Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/Hi Jon,Determine if the crook is in the ferrule area or in the rest of thecane.A.J.Thramer from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 6 13:01:05 1998 Subject: Re: Crook! Assuming the set is in the tip section, A little bit of crookedness in a rod doesn't affect the casting at all, but, it does give a wrong impression of you as a rod maker.Unfortunately the second thing someone does when lookingat one of your rods is to sight down the rod to see how straightit is (the first is to look at the guides and the wraps). The heat treatment method has a lot to do with how easily a rod takes a set. A few years ago someone on this list posted that if someone took it into account in designing a taper, heat treatment wouldn't be needed at all. Being new to the craft, I tried it. Doesn't work. The blank took severe sets and held them. I have noticed also, that if the set is induced by a large fish or by bending the rod by hand and holding it bent, the rod goes back to straight by itself. A few years ago, after a days fishing I noticed a set in my rod. We were leaving to go home when I noticed it, so I put the rod in the case, and decided to straighten it later. We ended up going to arestaurant that night and it got late getting back, so I skippedstraightening it that night. The next day I used the other tip to fish with. When I finally got some spare time to try and straightenit, I took it out, and the set was gone. The first thing I would do to take out a set is rest it a while. Perhaps this is one of the reasons cane rods traditionally came with two tips.If there is still a set in it after a few days, then I would take stepsto straighten it. While we are on the subject, last weekend I had the opportunity tolook at a bunch of graphite blanks from three different companies. They were firsts, not seconds. None of them were what I would call perfectly straight. I believe one of the biggest myths in rodmaking is that graphite rods are straighter than bamboo rods.Have you noticed that once you put on the guides the rod looks straighter? It's an optical illusion. As long as the guides arelined up the eye is fooled into thinking it's straight. Darryl Hayashida from teekay35@interlynx.net Mon Apr 6 13:22:20 1998 Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro Tom, many years ago I had the opportunity to hear, and later, talk to VinceMarinaro about rod building. I remember that he liked rabbit glueforbuilding, and contorted willow for reel seats. Otherwise he was vagueabout the rod tapers beyound what he said in his book. There was also afilm made which showed his rod building techniques. I believe that it wasSid Neff who showed this film at one of the Izaak Walton Club meetins. Perhaps one of our Pennsylvania friends could track it down. ----------From: TSmithwick Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. MarinaroDate: Monday, April 06, 1998 10:50 AM In a message dated 4/6/98 1:06:45 PM, you wrote: tools, I actually had an opportunity to cast Vince's favorite trout rodlastweekend, the 9'4" for 7wt. "Penns Creek".>> Tom - Are these the rods now owned by the museum in Manchester, VT?I'vebeeninterested in Marinaro's ideas myself, but have never gotten theopportunityto cast or measure one. Vince was so secretive that he made sure no onegotany specifics while he was alive. Any chance of measuring tapers ontheserods? It would be of great interest I am sure. from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Mon Apr 6 13:42:56 1998 with ESMTP id 248 for ;Mon, 6 Apr 1998 13:46:36 -0500 Subject: Re: Marinaro Film It would be really great if that film can be found if it can be transferredtovideo and made available! Thanks for the reply. Jim Kubichek ted john knott wrote:There was also a film made which showed his rod building techniques. from tom@cet-inc.com Mon Apr 6 13:47:54 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro Ted,I was told that Sid Neff did some kind of documentary on Vince. Rumor hasitthat he was last in the Pittsburgh area but I have not been able to trackhim or the film down. Friends close to the family do not know of anycopieslocally ( southcentral PA).ThanksTom Whittle---------- Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro I believe that it wasSid Neff who showed this film at one of the Izaak Walton Club meetins. Perhaps one of our Pennsylvania friends could track it down. ----------From: TSmithwick Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. MarinaroDate: Monday, April 06, 1998 10:50 AM In a message dated 4/6/98 1:06:45 PM, you wrote: tools, I actually had an opportunity to cast Vince's favorite trout rodlastweekend, the 9'4" for 7wt. "Penns Creek".>> Tom - Are these the rods now owned by the museum in Manchester, VT?I'vebeeninterested in Marinaro's ideas myself, but have never gotten theopportunityto cast or measure one. Vince was so secretive that he made sure no onegotany specifics while he was alive. Any chance of measuring tapers ontheserods? It would be of great interest I am sure. from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Apr 6 14:26:27 1998 MAA02848 Subject: Re: classes Darryl,I noticed that Frank Armbruster advertises "Free loaners (planing forms)toworkshop instructors" in The Planing Form newsletter. It might be anoption ifyou have not thought about it all ready. Chris Wohlford Still trying to work out the finances of obtaining the tools. The LongBeachCasting Club wants to have the classes, and they have the perfectfacilities onhaving the classes on weekends, probably four weekends in a row, maybetwice a year. The only thing stopping us is getting the planing forms andother tools. I think they want to keep the tools at the clubhouse forpeopleto use on their own when if they want to try it by themselves. It wouldbenice if we could get an oven, binder, dip tube and lathe also. Anybody have any rod building tools to donate to the Long Beach CastingClub? They are a non profit organization, and you can write off thedonationon your taxes.... Darryl Hayashida from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Mon Apr 6 16:14:02 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Mon, 06 Apr 98 17:13:26 EDT Subject: Re: Crook! Ralph, Thanks for the support for what I feared would be received as aseriously screwy idea. Like you, I have no articulated knowledge that a casting set is auseful feature in a rod. But I do wonder if the tool isn't trying totell me something, and I, in my mania to control all parameters andimpose order on chaos, am just not listening. I seriously suspect that straightness is, in fact, just a preconceivedaesthetic requirement that we interpret as a sign ofcompetent/incompetent building, and that this aesthetic requirementsneaks over and hides in our thinking about functionality when we aren'tlooking. Certainly a casting set looks like a loss of control over what we aredoing, but do you think it could also be an acknowledgement of(surrender to) the way what we have built interacts with the largerworld?Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from mleider@postoffice.ptd.net Mon Apr 6 16:30:27 1998 Subject: Philly Inquirer Article was reading the Philadelphia Inquirer on Sun. and opened up to a nicearticle on Tom Maxwell.....found a copy of it at the Inquirerwebsite....here's the url: http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/98/Apr/05/sports/OUT05.htm the article is the same, but in the paper there's a nice pic. of him, inhis shop, holding a rod....thought you guys might be interested...... matt leidermanhttp://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from gwr@seanet.com Mon Apr 6 16:54:46 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA05125 for; Subject: Re: Philly Inquirer Article Thanks for the lead Matt - an enjoyable article, even without a picture. Russ was reading the Philadelphia Inquirer on Sun. and opened up to a nicearticle on Tom Maxwell.....found a copy of it at the Inquirerwebsite....here's the url: http://www.phillynews.com/inquirer/98/Apr/05/sports/OUT05.htm the article is the same, but in the paper there's a nice pic. of him, inhis shop, holding a rod....thought you guys might be interested...... matt leiderman>http://home.ptd.net/~mleider/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon Apr 6 17:40:40 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Rod Design via V. Marinaro rabbit glue is a hide glue that is stronger than hide glue made fromhorses and cows. I have some and have used it and it is quite a bitstronger. On the absurd end of the scale the strongest, supposedly, isfrog glue made from a poisonous frog from south America. Remember don'tput your fingers in your mouth. ----------From: ted john knott[SMTP:teekay35@interlynx.net] Sent: Monday, April 06, 1998 11:17 AM Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. Marinaro Tom, many years ago I had the opportunity to hear, and later, talk toVinceMarinaro about rod building. I remember that he liked rabbit glueforbuilding, and contorted willow for reel seats. Otherwise he was vagueabout the rod tapers beyound what he said in his book. There was alsoafilm made which showed his rod building techniques. I believe that itwasSid Neff who showed this film at one of the Izaak Walton Club meetins. Perhaps one of our Pennsylvania friends could track it down. ----------From: TSmithwick Subject: Re: Rod Design via V. MarinaroDate: Monday, April 06, 1998 10:50 AM In a message dated 4/6/98 1:06:45 PM, you wrote: makingtools, I actually had an opportunity to cast Vince's favorite troutrodlastweekend, the 9'4" for 7wt. "Penns Creek".>> Tom - Are these the rods now owned by the museum in Manchester, VT?I'vebeeninterested in Marinaro's ideas myself, but have never gotten theopportunityto cast or measure one. Vince was so secretive that he made sure noonegotany specifics while he was alive. Any chance of measuring tapers ontheserods? It would be of great interest I am sure. from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Apr 6 18:48:51 1998 Subject: Re: Crook! I have one rod with a modest "casting set". This in no way affects theperformance of the rod and I have never been inclined to straighten it.One oldtimer told me that if a section has a "jump" (obvious spine)then inevitably a set will occur at that point. Seems to make sense.Graphite rods inevitably have a "jump"; do they take sets?Overlining a rod and/or Lefty Kreh style casting can put a set intoanycane rod, I bet; as can hauling sinking line into the air.Best regards,Reed from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Apr 6 18:58:03 1998 Subject: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue In a message dated 98-04-04 19:31:12 EST, you write: Dear Stuart Resorcinol is just about the only glue which is generally considered to beentirely waterproof. In fact, the Navy used to require it for mostapplications on their boats. As opposed to epoxies, it needs about 150 pounds-per-square- inchclampingpressure (Navy's numbers) and an absolutely tight fit, the lack of whichdoesn't really hurt an epoxied joint. A lot of people don't like it because it has a short setting time, incomparison to many epoxies, and you have to be in control of your bindingoperation. The other problem is a visible purple glue-line, which guyswithten-power loupes will ever be pointing out to you. I use it all the time. I think it's the best glue there is. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Apr 6 19:09:24 1998 Subject: Gudebrod fuzzies Dear Listers I just wrapped a new rod with Gudebrod silk for the first time. Besidesdarkening more dramatically under finish than any silk I've used, it cameoffthe spool very fuzzy in places. Most of it burned away over the hotplatebutnot really enough. I peeled the first layer off the spool, thinking it had scuffed on something,but still very rough. The thread tensioner looks OK and doesn't hurt myothersilks. What gives? Has anybody else had problems with this stuff? Davy from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Apr 6 19:20:12 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Info on Swell Butts CB43A716CEDDA143B2E16C7B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- CB43A716CEDDA143B2E16C7B David,I may have somehow missed any posts in response to your queries,but Iwonder the same sorts of things. Were swelled butts designed to keep theactionin front of the grip? Were they developed to give more material butt,making itsimpler to attach handles? Is there a "standard" placement for the swell,orlength to the swell? What does the swell do to the action, if anything? Theonly mention I remember in Garrison about swells concerned the design oftheforms. Have we missed something?Just wanted you to know someone had read your post. I'll look forwardtowhat the more advanced makers say on the subject.Harry Boyd David K. Rinker wrote: I have been reading about swells in rods in the Garrison Bible and waswondering if any one wants to expound on the merits. As a rod feature Ithink it is interesting to view. How does one build it into a rod andhandle . Has anyone built it into their forms like Garrison and how is theform used with the swell built in. Is their any book or article with thisinformation that anyone can provide? Thanks in advance, David Rinker --------------CB43A716CEDDA143B2E16C7B begin: vcardfn: Harry Boydn: Boyd;Harryorg: First Baptist Churchadr;dom: 507 Highland Street;;;Winnsboro;Louisiana;71295;email;internet: fbcwin@fsbnet.comtitle: Pastortel;work: (318)435-4359tel;fax: (318)435-2278 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------CB43A716CEDDA143B2E16C7B-- from CALucker@aol.com Mon Apr 6 19:39:36 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies That's the new Gudebrod for you. The new 00 is bigger than the old 00 andnotwound as tightly. I recommend that you singe with something more controllable than a hotplate.Try an alcohol lamp.Chris L from thramer@presys.com Mon Apr 6 20:12:34 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies Ragnarig wrote: Dear Listers I just wrapped a new rod with Gudebrod silk for the first time. Besidesdarkening more dramatically under finish than any silk I've used, itcame offthe spool very fuzzy in places. Most of it burned away over the hotplatebutnot really enough. I peeled the first layer off the spool, thinking it had scuffed onsomething,but still very rough. The thread tensioner looks OK and doesn't hurt myothersilks. What gives? Has anybody else had problems with this stuff? DavyHi Davy,Yup! The stuff can be pretty fuzzy, it seems to vary from one spool toanother. Tell 'em what to do with their ten power loupes!A.J.Fellow rescorcinol fan from anglport@con2.com Mon Apr 6 21:51:56 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA09771 for Subject: Jerry; Archives? I've been trying to download the Mar '98 Archives and they are giving mefits. I thought I had the whole thing but notice that the correspondencestops on or about Mar 24. I can't believe that no one posted from the 24thto the 31st. Did you separate those dates and intend to put them in withApril or did I get a fractured set?If they'll be in April, I'll just wait and get them then; but if they'rereally in the Mar files I'll keep trying to download.I've been isolating the "how-tos" from the "hiyas" of the Archives and ifanyone is interested in the results, I'll forward them. I warn you that Ijust figured out how to make tables-of- contents (they don't all have oneyet) and several run to close to 100 pages of Microsoft Word.I don't know if they'd be useful for building the Annotated Archives, but ifyou want them for that, let me knowArt from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Apr 6 22:03:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue Davy,I find most of the twerps with 10 power loups have too much time ontheirhands and couldn't plane anything accurately any way.Just my $.02.Regards,Hank. from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Apr 6 22:07:27 1998 XAA27927;Mon, 6 Apr 1998 23:07:24 -0400 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies Davy You said the thread tensioner looks ok - - - If you are tensioning thethread then that will contribute to your problem of fizzies - you musttensionthe spool and let nothing touch the thread. Chris On Mon, 6 Apr 1998 20:04:58 EDT, Ragnarig wrote: Dear Listers I just wrapped a new rod with Gudebrod silk for the first time. Besidesdarkening more dramatically under finish than any silk I've used, it cameoffthe spool very fuzzy in places. Most of it burned away over the hotplatebutnot really enough. I peeled the first layer off the spool, thinking it had scuffed onsomething,but still very rough. The thread tensioner looks OK and doesn't hurt myothersilks. What gives? Has anybody else had problems with this stuff? Davy from jczimny@dol.net Mon Apr 6 22:20:50 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies Yup! I've had the same problem with Gudebrod and the old Belding- Corticelli.I'vehad vey little problem with the Elephant and the Japanese silks - they aresuperb.John Zimny A.J.Thramer wrote: Ragnarig wrote: Dear Listers I just wrapped a new rod with Gudebrod silk for the first time. Besidesdarkening more dramatically under finish than any silk I've used, itcameoffthe spool very fuzzy in places. Most of it burned away over thehotplatebutnot really enough. I peeled the first layer off the spool, thinking it had scuffed onsomething,but still very rough. The thread tensioner looks OK and doesn't hurt myothersilks. What gives? Has anybody else had problems with this stuff? DavyHi Davy,Yup! The stuff can be pretty fuzzy, it seems to vary from one spool toanother. Tell 'em what to do with their ten power loupes!A.J.Fellow rescorcinol fan from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Apr 6 23:19:19 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies Chris Yeah, I guess I'll have to make a spool tensioner. What do I need, just acouple of SAE washers with a spring in the middle and a wing nut on top? Whatare you using? Here I'm the guy who's always preaching "make your own tools," and I'musingthis rig simply because an SF major I know left it with me when he wenttoOki. Thanks for the nudge. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Apr 7 00:13:02 1998 Subject: Heat-treating ns And another thing... Does anybody know how to bring out the copper color in ns? Can you heatitenough without flowing the solder? I've got an old rod in need of a stripper and all I've got is ns. Thanks,Davy from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 7 07:18:30 1998 Subject: Re: Heat-treating ns Davy - The reason you see a copper appearance on some NS parts and not onothers is because there are several alloys with varying nickel content. Ifthecopper color isn't there, there isn't much you can do about it. Polish thestuff up and live with it. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Apr 7 08:55:46 1998 Subject: Re: Heat-treating ns Davy,Try this from Garrrison/Carmichael 2nd ed.:" in a 1 cup beaker, fill it comfortably with plain tap water. Add at least3tablespoons of granulated Kodak fixer and stir. Add 4-5 drops ofconcentratednitric acid and stir until uniformly cloudy" Polish clean and did your nsparts until it turns a nice coppery brown. I've used it on one the ferrules,winding check and Mildrum SRMC stripper on one rod this fall and I realllyliked it as did my client. It got rather splotchy on the reel seat though soI'll relegate it to smaller parts in the future. Rob from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Apr 7 10:14:47 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Dickerson's use of cane A364292FCB39A88112819E12" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- A364292FCB39A88112819E12 Last night I read in Martin Keane's book about LyleDickerson using only smaller diameter cane in his rods.Apparently he used something similar to only the top half ofthe culms we get today. He also used, according to Keane,only oblong culms, and only 1 strip per culm. The reasoninghad something to do with enamel thickness and power fiberdensity. Any ideas on the validity of his reportedpractices? I got the idea that he wanted power fibers onlyon the outer edges of his rods rather than through to thecenter. Maybe pith is lighter than power fibers? Solid,but lighter rods?I have a few 12' culms with grower's marks thatcircle the cane and extend up to 65" from the butt end.Other than the grower's marks, these are some of the bestcolored, least water-marked cane I have. If I hear somegood arguments for Dickerson's supposed practice, perhaps Icould use these culms after all.Any insight will be appreciated. Harry Boyd --------------A364292FCB39A88112819E12 begin: vcardfn: Harry Boydn: Boyd;Harryorg: First Baptist Churchadr;dom: 507 Highland Street;;;Winnsboro;Louisiana;71295;email;internet: fbcwin@fsbnet.comtitle: Pastortel;work: (318)435-4359tel;fax: (318)435-2278 version: 2.1end: vcard --------------A364292FCB39A88112819E12-- from CALucker@aol.com Tue Apr 7 12:29:42 1998 Subject: Re: Dickerson's use of cane Back in the early eighties I spent a day with Tim Bedford using themachinesthat he acquired from Dickerson. I took notes and pictures. I got to askBedford about your same question. Mr. Bedford said he wasn't quite surewhatMartin Keane was talking about. Bedford said that Dickerson generallyusedstrips from one or sometimes two culms per rod. Mr. Bedford also corrected what he thought was a Keane mistake aboutDickerson's varnishing work. Mr. Bedford said that Diskerson dipped twotothree coats of varnish on his rods -- not one coat. Chris Lucker from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 7 12:32:13 1998 Subject: Re: Dickerson's use of cane In a message dated 4/7/98 8:19:14 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.comwrites: I have a few 12' culms with grower's marks thatcircle the cane and extend up to 65" from the butt end. Wow! That's a major growers mark. 5.5 feet up? I hope you gota discount off of the regular price for that one. Go ahead and use the part with the growers marks. I know this goes against conventional wisdom, but when you are at the roughing outthe 60 deg. angle stage, plane down the outside flat until the growersmark is gone. Sure, do most of the planing on the pith sides, and onlytake off enough of the outside flat to eliminate the blemishes, but I'm sure you will find there is plenty of power fiber left to be useable in your rod, unless you have culms with a very thin power fiber layer. If you take the time to thoroughly examine a culm you are workingon, you know what to look for, and know what you are doing, youwon't compromise the strength of your rod by removing some of theoutside flat of your splines. Most rods aren't much thicker than .350 at the butt - I know thereare some, but most rods aren't much thicker than .350 at thethickest. That's less than 3/16ths of an inch power fiber needed ineach spline. It would have to be a very poor culm indeed to not beable to take less than .010 off of the outside and not still have enoughpower fiber left. Be warned though, there are a few culms out there that you can't dothis to. I own a few. Darryl Hayashida from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Tue Apr 7 12:59:06 1998 (METDST) Subject: Rod silk Dear friends! Any source for rod wrapping silk ( not nylon!) in UK or France? Thanks for all answers Stefanhttp://www.BuchLang.com/~grau from h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at Tue Apr 7 15:01:45 1998 emf h9451015@asterix.wu-wien.ac.at; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:01:37+0200 21:14:33+0200 Subject: AW: Rod silk =_NextPart_000_01BD626A.29264030" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD626A.29264030 Hello Stefan, Try to contact: "Agutters"MarionvilleSouth Stour AvenueAshfordKent TN23 7RSGB Tel: 01233/626748Fax: 01233/641787 They will send you a catalog.I buy there some silk thread two years ago and it works well. ALEX ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD626A.29264030 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD626A.29264030-- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 7 16:17:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies Davy,I've used a spring between 2 washers then the spool then a washer and awingnut. I find I often have to use a hackle plier on the wingnut to keep it from turning.REgards,Hank. from AWood70928@aol.com Tue Apr 7 16:31:37 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies In a message dated 4/7/98 5:25:29 PM Eastern Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: Hank, If you have some room, try putting a regular nut on before your wing nutandthen tighten down to the nut - that solved the turning problem for me. AlManchester, NH from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 7 17:19:27 1998 with SMTP id AAA28727 for ;Tue, 7 Apr 1998 22:18:53 +0000 with lastmessage Subject: Re: Tight budget RAA07415 Thanks for the replies. I placed an order with Lon this morning. Nowcomes thehard part. Waiting... Dennis Haftel ----------Dennis: Lon is charging $110.00 Plus about 5 bucks shipping. The gauge is aMitutoyo, No. 2904F. I beleive the tip is a Starret. Regards, Mark from lblan@provide.net Tue Apr 7 17:27:29 1998 Subject: RE: Gudebrod fuzzies boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD6252.C2855440" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD6252.C2855440 Or, hacksaw a slot in the bolt and bend the tail of the spring to fit intothe slot. The spring can't turn with the spool - nor can it spin the nut.Use one wingnut for easy adjustment. Larry Blan wingnut. I find I often have to use a hackle plier on thewingnut to keep it from turning. >> Hank, If you have some room, try putting a regular nut on before yourwing nut andthen tighten down to the nut - that solved the turning problem for me. Al ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD6252.C2855440 name="Larry Blan.vcf" filename="Larry Blan.vcf" BEGIN:VCARDVERSION:2.1N:Blan;Larry;;;FN:Larry BlanORG:;TITLE:NOTE:TEL;WORK;VOICE:TEL;HOME;VOICE:(313) 728- 6423ADR;WORK:;;;;;;United StatesLABEL;WORK;ENCODING=3DQUOTED- PRINTABLE:=3D0D=3D0A, =3D0D=3D0AUnited =StatesADR;HOME:;;31520 Grandview;Westland;MI;48186;United States of AmericaLABEL;HOME;ENCODING=3DQUOTED-PRINTABLE:31520 =Grandview=3D0D=3D0AWestland, MI 48186=3D0D=3D0AUnited States ofAmericaEMAIL;PREF;INTERNET:lblan@provide.netREV:19980407T222304ZEND:VCARD ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01BD6252.C2855440-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 7 17:34:12 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue Hank,Those are the same guys that stand around with a pipe stuck in their faceandcan't cast or catch a fish, to much money and to much time on their hands.Lets see them contend with nodes and bamboo splinters.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 7 17:35:08 1998 Subject: japanese silk I was looking at a catalog from Anglers Workshop today and waswondering aboutthe Japanese silk thread that they were carrying. Does anyone use it andisit any good. Thinking about this over Pearsalls.Bret from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 7 17:35:21 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AA7E159F00C6; Tue, 07 Apr 1998 16:36:46 MST Subject: Re: Dickerson's use of cane At 10:13 AM 4/7/98 -0500, you wrote:Last night I read in Martin Keane's book about LyleDickerson using only smaller diameter cane in his rods.Apparently he used something similar to only the top half ofthe culms we get today. He also used, according to Keane,only oblong culms, and only 1 strip per culm. The reasoninghad something to do with enamel thickness and power fiberdensity. Any ideas on the validity of his reportedpractices? I got the idea that he wanted power fibers onlyon the outer edges of his rods rather than through to thecenter. Maybe pith is lighter than power fibers? Solid,but lighter rods?I have a few 12' culms with grower's marks thatcircle the cane and extend up to 65" from the butt end.Other than the grower's marks, these are some of the bestcolored, least water-marked cane I have. If I hear somegood arguments for Dickerson's supposed practice, perhaps Icould use these culms after all.Any insight will be appreciated. Harry Boyd Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\vcard28.vcf"Harry;I have Dickerson, A Man and His Rods by Jim Shaff , and that is not what issaid about his cane selection at all. This book says he only used thelargest culms available and used strips from 2 culms per rod, alternatingthem. I also seem to remember it saying that he sawed his strips. Thisbookis interesting reading, altho like most books on rodbuilders it doesn'tgive any tapers. It is available from Dick Spurr at Centennial ClassicSales.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 7 17:40:47 1998 Subject: RE:japanese silk BretRO>I was looking at a catalog from Anglers Workshop today and waswondering aboRO>the Japanese silk thread that they were carrying. Does anyone use itand isRO>it any good. Thinking about this over Pearsalls.RO>Bret Bret, I use it and I know of at least one other rod restorer that also usesit. It's the same as YLI's thread and it's good stuff. Don Burns from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Apr 7 17:53:23 1998 Subject: Re: japanese silk I like it. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Grhghlndr Subject: japanese silkDate: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 3:32 PM I was looking at a catalog from Anglers Workshop today and waswonderingaboutthe Japanese silk thread that they were carrying. Does anyone use it andisit any good. Thinking about this over Pearsalls.Bret from CharlesIrvine@compuserve.com Tue Apr 7 18:01:27 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies SAA09780 Cabela sells one pretty cheap, comes with a c-clamp which I removed andattached the rest to my rod wrapping jig, works great, no fuzziesChuck from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 7 18:33:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re: japanese silk Don and Robert,Thanks I will give it a go, I also saw other things from them that lookedpretty good.Bret from flyfisher@brinet.com Tue Apr 7 18:41:55 1998 19:42:35-0400 Subject: 60 degree point Does anyone have the cat # to order the 60 degree point from MSC? I hadit and lost it and can't find it in the catalogue. Thanks, Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 7 18:56:17 1998 TAA22316;Tue, 7 Apr 1998 19:56:13 -0400 Subject: RE: Gudebrod fuzzies Larry Brass bolts - of course ! A student of mine found a bunch of Brassbolts of appropriate size in a plumbing supply store - previously used fortoilets. Look very nice. Chris On Tue, 7 Apr 1998 18:27:01 -0400, Larry Blan wrote: Or, hacksaw a slot in the bolt and bend the tail of the spring to fit intothe slot. The spring can't turn with the spool - nor can it spin the nut.Use one wingnut for easy adjustment. Larry Blan wingnut. I find I often have to use a hackle plier on thewingnut to keep it from turning. >> Hank, If you have some room, try putting a regular nut on before yourwing nut andthen tighten down to the nut - that solved the turning problem for me. Al from bairdart@burgoyne.com Tue Apr 7 19:02:26 1998 Subject: classes Sorry to the list for using the band for a personal message, but i lost all my files over the weekend. Classes in colorado, could you please reconnect with me. I'm very serious about taking classes from you. Thanks Bob B. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Tue Apr 7 19:04:09 1998 Subject: Re: japanese silk I like and use both Angler's and the Pearsall's and like both equally. Theonly reason for using both is the color selection.My .02 Rob from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Apr 7 19:22:12 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net TAA18243 Subject: Signing Rod I am at the stage of signing my first rod. I built the "Sir Darryl" toWayne's taper. Let me rephrase that, I intended to build the "SirDarryl". It's the first one and I am still happy with it. I have abutt and one tip planed on the second rod, that will be a lot closer tospecs. My question is what do others use as a signature, that is of coursebesides my name. Rod #1, or some secret code to check back to a logthat describes the rod? W.C. Taper? I am just curious as to wether or not anyone mentions the taper. Idon't see myself competing in the field of developing tapers as thereare so many talented people contributing in this area. Actually I don'tsee my self competing in rod building at all, it is too much fun. Give me some of your solutions to signing and I will extrapolate asolution for myself. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from RMargiotta@aol.com Tue Apr 7 19:22:41 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies Chris: Why don't you just buy one of these cheapo rod winding devices? I believeCabela's sells them. (I can't remember where I got mine.) Basically just aC-clamp with a screw that holds the thread with wing nuts and washers. Costsless than $10. --Rich from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Apr 7 19:36:14 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: Signing Rod Steve,I sign my rods in black India Ink as follows: Harry Boyd, Jr. Maker3901-WC 93-4The numbers mean: (3901) I am 39 years old (really!), and this is the firstrod I built this year.(WC 93-4) Wayne Cattanach taper, 93" 4 weight.Also, a local jeweler engraves the butt caps with Harry Boyd Maker inthree lines. ( I tie flies for him and he doesn't charge me. Can't beatthat deal!) Hope this gives you an idea. Let us know what you come up with. Whoknows,you may even develop some sort of standardHarry Steve Trauthwein wrote: >snip from thramer@presys.com Tue Apr 7 19:48:52 1998 0000 Subject: Pipes HEY! I rather enjoy standing around with a pipe stuck in my face, try a 3/4or a full bent to clear the cast:)A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Tue Apr 7 19:52:34 1998 0000 Subject: Re: japanese silk Grhghlndr wrote: I was looking at a catalog from Anglers Workshop today and waswondering aboutthe Japanese silk thread that they were carrying. Does anyone use it andisit any good. Thinking about this over Pearsalls.BretHi Bret,Japanese silk that is sold by anglers is good stuff. It has a ratherstiff? lay to the fibers and almost no fuzzies. I prefer the largersize British silk is softer , while US silk is very soft and fuzzy. Onthe flipside British pipe tobacco is about as good as it gets.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Tue Apr 7 19:55:05 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Signing Rod Steve Trauthwein wrote: I am at the stage of signing my first rod. I built the "Sir Darryl" toWayne's taper. Let me rephrase that, I intended to build the "SirDarryl". It's the first one and I am still happy with it. I have abutt and one tip planed on the second rod, that will be a lot closer tospecs. My question is what do others use as a signature, that is of coursebesides my name. Rod #1, or some secret code to check back to a logthat describes the rod? W.C. Taper? I am just curious as to wether or not anyone mentions the taper. Idon't see myself competing in the field of developing tapers as thereare so many talented people contributing in this area. Actually I don'tsee my self competing in rod building at all, it is too much fun. Give me some of your solutions to signing and I will extrapolate asolution for myself. Regards, SteveIndependence, MOInventing a code of your own is tons of fun! A.J.Thramer from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Tue Apr 7 20:08:43 1998 mailfep4-hme1 via dsmap-1.22 0700 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies type="54455854"; At the risk of sounding really 'unsophisticated'-- and without the useof fancy devices et al ... I simply 'park' a the spool of silk beneathmy butt (as Hoagy describes in the Garrison book) and have all thetensioning control I need ... it works for me! Pilots call it flying pants ; ) !! Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Tue Apr 7 20:19:01 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Signing Rod At 19:23 07/04/98 -0700, Steve wrote:I am at the stage of signing my first rod. My question is what do others use as a signature, that is of coursebesides my name. I am just curious as to wether or not anyone mentions the taper. Steve, Your name - some serial number of your own design - and anacknowledgmentof the taper designer if not you. Built a Paul Young taper over winter So the rod is marked ANDERSENSerial #####PHY Para 15 on butt and serial # only on tips Don from WayneCatt@aol.com Tue Apr 7 21:00:15 1998 Subject: Guidance? A couple of years ago I realized that several looking for classes inbamboo rod making were not going to make it to Mi - so I started passingoninformation of other classes about the country. This may sound odd tosome -but the truth is that I just can't do more than I'm doing at this time - sowhy not - I usually get 5-6 phone calls a week. SO - here is the offer -Forthose offering classes - forward information and I will include it with theinformation that I pass on.Secondly - I am beta testing a full windows version of Hexrod (for methat's hard to spit out) - I am having CD's made for some to try - Ifinterested please e-mail off list - waynecatt@aol.com Wayne from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 7 21:08:46 1998 Subject: Re: Signing Rod Steve,I use the code no. of my taper-year- the no. of that year's rod i.e. 1 3rdone finished in '97 the no. would be 754-97-3. There are many ways to dothis,the above is just my way.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 7 21:09:01 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Dickerson's use of cane I would like to reinforce Darryl's comments re planing outside powerfibers.The majority of the 40 culms I have could be planed that way ,if necessarysoplane those grower's marks away if your culm is otherwise o.k.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 7 21:11:45 1998 Subject: Re: RE: Gudebrod fuzzies Larry,The wingnut is separated from the spool by a washer. I will try yourset-up which I assume is: washer, spool, washer, spring, washer, nut? Minehasbeen washer, spring, washer ,spool, washer ,nut.Regards,Hank. from fishhack@juno.com Tue Apr 7 21:13:00 1998 22:07:48 EDT Subject: Square taper suggestions? Before I modify an existing hex taper for a square rod, I thought I'd askone more time if anyone has a favourite square taper they would like tosuggest. Thanks.Stuart DardenNorth Carolina _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 7 21:14:15 1998 Subject: Re: Pipes HEY, A.J.,I used to suck a pipe 'til one "went out" and I stuck it in my pocket- oh,well, I didn't like that coat much anyway.Regards,Hank. from fishhack@juno.com Tue Apr 7 21:14:20 1998 22:07:48 EDT Subject: Re: Tightbond II / compatible glue Dear StuartResorcinol is just about the only glue which is generally considered to be entirely waterproof. In fact, the Navy used to require it formostapplications on their boats. Davy My local supplier has Resorcinol and polyurethane adhesives, so I wastrying to decide which to use. I guess the Resorcinol would be a goodchoice even though the poly's claim to 100% waterproof. I suppose Icould always use purple silk to highlight the purple glue line. Stuart DardenNorth Carolina _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 7 21:19:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies Thanks, Al. from tlongair@telusplanet.net Tue Apr 7 22:50:18 1998 clgrps05.agt.net" ESMTP withESMTP id ; Tue, 7 Apr 1998 21:49:29 -0600 Subject: jewellery Hi all,I have been following the list for some time, collecting materialsandtools. Tonight, blackened the pith out of my culm, flamed the enameland split the half into sixths using the wandering split technique.My question for anyone since I am ordering jewellery for the rod nowand was wondering about the advantages of various tip tops. I see Ihave a choice of ring of ceramic or SIC, or the more traditional wireloop. The wire loop comes in regular, large and extra large loop size.I am planning to build the Sir D 7" 4wt. Are there advantages to alarger or smaller loop size?I was also wondering if there are any tapers for bamboo spin castingrods. I would love to make a rod for my father but alas he refuses touse a fly rod.Thanks for your help.Terry Longair from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Apr 7 22:50:45 1998 (205.236.248.95) Subject: the big bamboo About 6 weeks ago I received a shipment of 2 bales of cane from myregular supplier which has been getting worse over the years, which Iwas lead to believe was the Chinese adjusting to a free market economy.A. Royer phoned me a couple of weeks ago and suggested I try some of hisbamboo. the freight from the west coast was about $75 so I decided thatI should order 4 bales asthe shipping was about the same as for one bale.I received my Royer cane on Friday and got to unwrap 2 bales and I mustadmit that this is the best cane I have ever seen in the 15 years ofrodmaking.I remember a year or so ago when Royer first appeared on the list with apromise of supplying good bamboo, I made a comment on how can a new kidon the block be in a position to supply unmarked can when establishedcompanies cannot. The cane I received is thick, yellow and unmarked. I have some that mustbe 4in dia, incredible.I feel great, all is not lost, perhaps there is good bamboo out there.Terry > from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Apr 8 00:28:23 1998 Subject: Re: Gudebrod fuzzies Dear Chris, Larry, Hank et Al Thanks a mica for the info. I'll put it to good use soon, but first I gottafinish my little car-top dinghy before the snow gets back above 3,000 ftinthe Cascades! Another thread question: Where do you get that almost-bamboo- coloredtranslucent stuff that everybody seems to like so well? Apparently, noteverybody comprehends the spiritual significance of raspberry silk (!) Davy from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Apr 8 08:24:23 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order Colleagues,Just an appeal to all to consider going in with Chris Lucker an the largesilkorder from Belding Corticelli. For those of us who occasionally dorestorations these are colors we are all likely to wish we had someday!Andheck, nice silk is nice silk! I think we have a wonderful opportunity thanksto Chris and hate to see it pass... Rob Hoffhines from hall@Summa4.COM Wed Apr 8 08:42:39 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 120- 40365U700L2S100)with SMTP id AAA16780 for ;Wed, 8 Apr 1998 09:42:35 -0400 199813:42:35 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id JAA07475 for ;Wed, 8 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id JAA08967 for Subject: Re: Grand silk order Rob, Chris et al,I have to agree with Rob's plead. Chris, please let the list knowwhereyou are at with this. I know you requested from the group which colors/sizes/quantitiesthegeneral folks are looking for. I have only restored my own 2 less famousrods, so don't have any particular color needs. I would rely on whatother folks see for the demand(s). Thanks Chris, Dan Hall Nodewrrior wrote: Colleagues,Just an appeal to all to consider going in with Chris Lucker an the largesilkorder from Belding Corticelli. For those of us who occasionally dorestorations these are colors we are all likely to wish we had someday!Andheck, nice silk is nice silk! I think we have a wonderful opportunitythanksto Chris and hate to see it pass... Rob Hoffhines from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Apr 8 09:32:10 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 8Apr 1998 10:33:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Signing Rod I always give respect to the designer of the taper...Just like I write my name basically. Jon Lintvet -maker-Cattanach - taper- (on another spline) Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Wed Apr 8 09:50:14 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);8 Apr 98 10:53:53 EST EST Subject: Re: Grand silk order I'd be happy to order a couple of spools in the agreed upon colors. Would be happy to throw in $5 - $10 (US).Joe Mulvey Rob, Chris et al,I have to agree with Rob's plead. Chris, please let the list knowwhereyou are at with this. I know you requested from the group which colors/sizes/quantitiesthegeneral folks are looking for. I have only restored my own 2 less famousrods, so don't have any particular color needs. I would rely on whatother folks see for the demand(s). Thanks Chris, Dan Hall Nodewrrior wrote: Colleagues,Just an appeal to all to consider going in with Chris Lucker an the largesilkorder from Belding Corticelli. For those of us who occasionally dorestorations these are colors we are all likely to wish we had someday!Andheck, nice silk is nice silk! I think we have a wonderful opportunitythanksto Chris and hate to see it pass... Rob Hoffhines from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Wed Apr 8 09:57:43 1998 Subject: RE: Grand silk order Same here. -----Original Message-----From: Joe Mulvey [SMTP:jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us]Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 8:53 AM Subject: Re: Grand silk order I'd be happy to order a couple of spools in the agreed uponcolors. Would be happy to throw in $5 - $10 (US).Joe Mulvey Rob, Chris et al,I have to agree with Rob's plead. Chris, please let thelist know whereyou are at with this. I know you requested from the group whichcolors/sizes/quantities thegeneral folks are looking for. I have only restored my own 2less famousrods, so don't have any particular color needs. I would relyon whatother folks see for the demand(s). Thanks Chris, Dan Hall Nodewrrior wrote: Colleagues,Just an appeal to all to consider going in with Chris Luckeran the large silkorder from Belding Corticelli. For those of us whooccasionally dorestorations these are colors we are all likely to wish wehad someday! Andheck, nice silk is nice silk! I think we have a wonderfulopportunity thanksto Chris and hate to see it pass... Rob Hoffhines from bjcoch@arkansas.net Wed Apr 8 10:15:15 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id KAA23066 for Subject: Re: jewellery Terry Longair wrote: My question for anyone since I am orderingjewellery for the rod now and was wondering about the advantages ofvarioustip tops. I see I have a choice of ring of ceramic or SIC, or the moretraditional wire loop. The wire loop comes in regular, large and extralarge loop size. I am planning to build the Sir D 7" 4wt. Are thereadvantages to a larger or smaller loop size? There are two lines of thought on this subject; Beauty and Functionality.The beauty train of thought is that the guides and tiptop should be inproportion to the size line that the rod is made for. The functionality freely. I have built two of the same taper rods and fitted them with thetwo "styles" of guide thoughts. My findings (what feels best to me) arethat the stripper(s) should be larger than the beauty train of thought,the running guides should "fit the line size", and the tiptop should beslightly over size for shooting line and in case you bring the nail knotback into the rod tip by accident when landing a fish. The rods I buildnow have theis "guide system" and all the owners tell me that they castlike a dream (no line slap or hanging up). The best way I know of todecide on which you prefer is to build the rod and tape on the guides andcast enough times so you can see the differences in performance and feel from bjcoch@arkansas.net Wed Apr 8 10:20:49 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id KAA25475 for Subject: Re: Signing Rod Steve Trauthwein wrote: I am at the stage of signing my first rod.My question is what do others use as a signature, that is of coursebesides my name. Rod #1, or some secret code to check back to a logthat describes the rod? W.C. Taper?Give me some of your solutions to signing and I will extrapolate asolution for myself. I usually sign in this manner: Built for, by, line weight(s) length,model. On two or more tip rods I label each tip since they usually aredifferent in taper, ie: fast, medium, slow. Bryant C. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Wed Apr 8 10:29:14 1998 Subject: SewellDunton rod To all,I'm replacing a ferrule on a Sewell Dunton rod and am wondering aboutthequality of the rods in general. This one has random node spacing with thenodes on the mid on the same locus on strips 1,2 4,5. I also find that theguide feet are not filed nor are the ferrule ends. The wraps are size A- atleast they're larger than the OO I'm using. One of the tip ferrules ismissing. Whoever took it off butchered the bamboo. The other male ferruleonthe 2nd tip had to be removed as I couldn't match it . The slide wasindentedinto the cane in 2 spots 180 degrees from one another-I thought theferrulewas pinned-not so. I ended up filing the ferrule off and replacing the setwith a super z-the female ferrule that had replaced the original was toolarge My question is: Does this quality of workmanship obtain throughout theSewell Dunton rods or do they vary considerably? I must say the finish andcosmetics are great and the taper seems good.Thanks in advance for any info.Hank. from thramer@presys.com Wed Apr 8 11:23:13 1998 0000 Subject: Re: SewellDunton rod FISHWOOL wrote: To all,I'm replacing a ferrule on a Sewell Dunton rod and am wonderingabout thequality of the rods in general. This one has random node spacing with thenodes on the mid on the same locus on strips 1,2 4,5. I also find that theguide feet are not filed nor are the ferrule ends. The wraps are size A- atleast they're larger than the OO I'm using. One of the tip ferrules ismissing. Whoever took it off butchered the bamboo. The other maleferrule onthe 2nd tip had to be removed as I couldn't match it . The slide wasindentedinto the cane in 2 spots 180 degrees from one another-I thought theferrulewas pinned-not so. I ended up filing the ferrule off and replacing the setwith a super z-the female ferrule that had replaced the original was toolarge My question is: Does this quality of workmanship obtain throughouttheSewell Dunton rods or do they vary considerably? I must say the finishandcosmetics are great and the taper seems good.Thanks in advance for any info.Hank.I have Dunton rods that were quite well made and the same rod model thatwas structurally unsound. A rather large variation in quality. The goodones can be pretty good casting rods though.A.J.Thramer from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 8 11:57:10 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order RO>I'd be happy to order a couple of spools in the agreed upon colors. Would bRO>happy to throw in $5 - $10 (US).RO>Joe Mulvey Same here, Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or Canerods@aol.com from CALucker@aol.com Wed Apr 8 14:19:16 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order Regarding the custom silk order, I will give the idea a few more days topercolate. After that, I shall contact everyone who has expressed interesttofind a consensus for color and size. At present, it looks like theconsensusis for 5/0 or 4/0. Color is not as narrowed-down. Chris Lucker from hall@Summa4.COM Wed Apr 8 14:41:14 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 120- 40365U700L2S100)with SMTP id AAA27170 for ;Wed, 8 Apr 1998 15:41:11 -0400 199819:41:10 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id PAA10396 for ;Wed, 8 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id PAA22467 for Subject: Re: Grand silk order Chris,Count me in as well. Thankyou,Dan Hall CA Lucker wrote: Regarding the custom silk order, I will give the idea a few more days topercolate. After that, I shall contact everyone who has expressedinterest tofind a consensus for color and size. At present, it looks like theconsensusis for 5/0 or 4/0. Color is not as narrowed-down.Chris Lucker from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Apr 8 15:09:15 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Grand silk order me also! ----------From: Dan Hall[SMTP:hall@Summa4.COM] Sent: Wednesday, April 08, 1998 12:41 PM Subject: Re: Grand silk order Chris,Count me in as well. Thankyou,Dan Hall CA Lucker wrote: Regarding the custom silk order, I will give the idea a few moredays topercolate. After that, I shall contact everyone who has expressedinterest tofind a consensus for color and size. At present, it looks like theconsensusis for 5/0 or 4/0. Color is not as narrowed-down.Chris Lucker from gwr@seanet.com Wed Apr 8 15:13:49 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA06365 for; Subject: Re: Grand silk order Chris, I'd pick up a few spools. Thanks, Russ gwr@seanet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Grand silk order Regarding the custom silk order, I will give the idea a few more days topercolate. After that, I shall contact everyone who has expressedinteresttofind a consensus for color and size. At present, it looks like theconsensusis for 5/0 or 4/0. Color is not as narrowed-down.Chris Lucker from hexagon@odyssee.net Wed Apr 8 15:18:09 1998 (205.236.248.233) Subject: Re: Info on Swell Butts A swelled butt allows you to have a reasonable diameter grip that wouldlookugly on say a Garrison taper in the smaller sizes.Terry David K. Rinker wrote: I have been reading about swells in rods in the Garrison Bible and waswondering if any one wants to expound on the merits. As a rod feature Ithink it is interesting to view. How does one build it into a rod andhandle . Has anyone built it into their forms like Garrison and how is theform used with the swell built in. Is their any book or article with thisinformation that anyone can provide? Thanks in advance, David Rinker from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Apr 8 15:26:42 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 8Apr 1998 16:28:08 -0400 Subject: Rodmakers... Did I miss something? I have not been able to connect to Jerry's page in over a week. Hmmm... Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from RVenneri@aol.com Wed Apr 8 16:43:47 1998 Subject: Re: 60 degree point catalog # for 60 degree center gauge06597785 Steel import 4.9506597793 Chrome import 5.9586413879 Chrome starratt 11.65 Bob V Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Apr 8 17:04:27 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order And you can count me in, too. --Rich Margiotta from flyfisher@brinet.com Wed Apr 8 17:11:38 1998 18:12:00-0400 Subject: Re: 60 degree point RVenneri wrote: catalog # for 60 degree center gauge06597785 Steel import 4.9506597793 Chrome import 5.9586413879 Chrome starratt 11.65 Thanks! Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 8 17:56:06 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmakers... Jon,It must be you. Just went there. No problem.Gary At 04:26 PM 4/8/98 +0000, you wrote:Did I miss something? I have not been able to connect to Jerry's page in over a week. Hmmm... Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Apr 8 18:44:33 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA00222; Wed, 8 Apr 199819:42:50 Subject: Re: jewellery At 10:14 AM 4/8/98 -0500, Bryant J. Cochran, Jr. wrote: Bryant, This sounds good; how does one determine the correct size for the line? There are two lines of thought on this subject; Beauty andFunctionality.The beauty train of thought is that the guides and tiptop should be inproportion to the size line that the rod is made for. The functionality freely. I have built two of the same taper rods and fitted them with thetwo "styles" of guide thoughts. My findings (what feels best to me) arethat the stripper(s) should be larger than the beauty train of thought,the running guides should "fit the line size", and the tiptop should beslightly over size for shooting line and in case you bring the nail knotback into the rod tip by accident when landing a fish. The rods I buildnow have theis "guide system" and all the owners tell me that they castlike a dream (no line slap or hanging up). The best way I know of todecide on which you prefer is to build the rod and tape on the guides andcast enough times so you can see the differences in performance andfeel Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from frankc@webspan.net Wed Apr 8 18:55:12 1998 Subject: Urac 185 I just spent about an hour searching through the archives trying tolocate the message that contained the source for the agent that can beused to slow down Urac 185. I think I read it a few months ago but couldnot locate it. Can anyone give me the information or some method offinding it in the archives without reading about grits. Thanks from EMiller257@aol.com Wed Apr 8 19:19:42 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order I'd be interested in two or three spools also. Ed Miller....... from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 8 19:19:43 1998 Subject: Re: jewellery At 09:42 PM 4/7/98 -0600, you wrote:snip Terry Longair Terry, I have found a few Robert Crompton 5 & 6 strip spinning rod tapers. Theproblem is they are all measured at 6" increments. Converting to 5" issimple enough and I don't beleive it would make much of a difference on aspinning rod. I have done this on two casting rods and they seem to castjust fine. Although mine are the only two casting rods I have ever cast sothis is not an endorsment. I'm sure someone else, on the list, is morecapable of addressing this point. If you would like what I have feel freeto contact me and I will send them to you. Garydestinycon@mindspring.com from RVenneri@aol.com Wed Apr 8 20:39:27 1998 recipients from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 8 21:56:31 1998 Subject: Re: Re: japanese silk A.J.What size do you suggest?Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 8 22:00:48 1998 Subject: Re: Rodmakers... Jon,Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I can never connect to his page with anyconsistancy but i blame that on AOHELL not his page. I have it bookmarkedandI found out that I only have half of it loaded.Bret from saweiss@flash.net Wed Apr 8 23:02:13 1998 Subject: Re: Urac 185 -----Original Message----- Subject: Urac 185 I just spent about an hour searching through the archives trying tolocate the message that contained the source for the agent that can beused to slow down Urac 185. I think I read it a few months ago but couldnot locate it. Can anyone give me the information or some method offinding it in the archives without reading about grits. Thanks Frank,This may be the exerpt from the archives that you are seeking: Urac is mfg. for the plywood industry, hence the catalyst is in the powderwhich is ground walnut shells. The powder is intended to be a filler ofvoids in the mfg. of plywood. He got that from the mfg. of urac. Assuggested by the manufacturer, the mix produces a mixture that is quitethick...at least that has been my experience. As I understand it, and it iswith their blessing, John recommends ammonium chloride (NH4CL) as thecatalyst, sans powder. Source of NH4CL:The Science fair140 College SquareNewark DE 19711(302) 453-1817They will package 500 grams (lifetime supply) of reagent grade forapprox.$25 Might package less if requested. Procedure for use: Mix NH4CL 5% to10%into solution with distilled water. Mix the solution 10% into the Uracliquid. This produces a 1/2 to 1 % catalyst mix that provides a good potlife and adhesive that is thinner than with the supplied powder/catalyst.Also I talked with George Mauer last week and he has started using theammonium chloride and feels it is a great improvement. He alsorecommendedheat setting the glue immediately after gluing in your oven at 150 to 200degrees for 1 hour, then letting it set 24 hours before removing string. Good luckSteve from FLYROD777@aol.com Wed Apr 8 23:02:17 1998 Subject: Re: 60 degree point ENCO also has these. Ph# is 1-800-873-3626. reasonable onvernier calipers and dial indicators. Mark Hallowell from FLYROD777@aol.com Wed Apr 8 23:06:53 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order Let me know. Mark Hallowell from jfoster@gte.net Wed Apr 8 23:36:21 1998 Subject: web added Mr. Zimny's adhesive faq update to the tips page, and RobertVenneri's custom rod components to the suppliers page, good lookingjewelry for a good price. jerry from jfoster@gte.net Wed Apr 8 23:46:25 1998 Subject: Re: Jerry; Archives? Art I'm having a similar problem..i may have to split the archive, a lot ofchatter.....I had better luck if i hit the reload button. Jerry from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 9 00:45:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0DD1D8600CE; Wed, 08 Apr 1998 23:47:09 MST Subject: Re: Rodmakers... At 10:54 PM 4/8/98 EDT, you wrote:Jon,Don't feel like the Lone Ranger, I can never connect to his page with anyconsistancy but i blame that on AOHELL not his page. I have itbookmarkedandI found out that I only have half of it loaded.Bret Bret and Jon;I had the same trouble using Internet Explorer, I downloaded Netscape andhaven't had any problem since, I suggest trying it out.My .02John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 9 00:46:33 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A104F2D00D2; Wed, 08 Apr 1998 23:47:48 MST Subject: Re: Grand silk order At 03:12 PM 4/8/98 EDT, you wrote:Regarding the custom silk order, I will give the idea a few more days topercolate. After that, I shall contact everyone who has expressedinterest tofind a consensus for color and size. At present, it looks like theconsensusis for 5/0 or 4/0. Color is not as narrowed-down. Chris Lucker Chris;I'ld be interested in some, too. Let me know what sizes, colors, sizespools, and cost per spool you can/need to order. Thanks for theopportunity.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 9 00:46:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A114F2E00D2; Wed, 08 Apr 1998 23:48:04 MST Subject: Re: SewellDunton rod At 11:27 AM 4/8/98 EDT, you wrote:To all,I'm replacing a ferrule on a Sewell Dunton rod and am wondering aboutthequality of the rods in general. This one has random node spacing with thenodes on the mid on the same locus on strips 1,2 4,5. I also find that theguide feet are not filed nor are the ferrule ends. The wraps are size A-atleast they're larger than the OO I'm using. One of the tip ferrules ismissing. Whoever took it off butchered the bamboo. The other maleferrule onthe 2nd tip had to be removed as I couldn't match it . The slide wasindentedinto the cane in 2 spots 180 degrees from one another-I thought theferrulewas pinned-not so. I ended up filing the ferrule off and replacing the setwith a super z-the female ferrule that had replaced the original was toolarge My question is: Does this quality of workmanship obtain throughout theSewell Dunton rods or do they vary considerably? I must say the finishandcosmetics are great and the taper seems good.Thanks in advance for any info.Hank. Hank;Sewell Dunton bought out Montague's bamboo rod division when they closeditout, he had been a bamboo broker previously. While this should be a goodclue as to the quality of his rods, seeing as he used all of Montague's oldequipment, it should be noted that when Sewell got out of the rodbusiness,he sold all of the equipment to Thomas &Thomas. Check out Dick Spurr's "Bamboo Rodmakers, Past and Present".John Channer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 9 00:59:55 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA18518 Subject: Re: Grand silk order Me too. And a vote for Payne colors. George Bourke---------- from penr0295@uidaho.edu Thu Apr 9 01:13:35 1998 XAA16767 doing-bs Subject: website shutdown Since I am no longer an employee of the University of Idaho, my websitewith pages regarding making planing forms, etc. is scheduled fortermination in mid-May. I am not sure how long it might be before I amable to put the site back up at a different location. If anyone wants toprint out any of this information, now would be the best time. Thomas PenroseBend, ORhttp://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/Default.htm from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 9 02:45:30 1998 Thu, 9 Apr 1998 15:45:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: website shutdown On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Thomas Penrose wrote: Since I am no longer an employee of the University of Idaho, my websitewith pages regarding making planing forms, etc. is scheduled fortermination in mid-May. I am not sure how long it might be before I amable to put the site back up at a different location. If anyone wants toprint out any of this information, now would be the best time. Thomas PenroseBend, ORhttp://www.uidaho.edu/~penr0295/Toms/Default.htm I'd offer to house the info on my website but I'm using work's account too so maybe someone else out there could help out? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 9 03:12:43 1998 Thu, 9 Apr 1998 16:12:35 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Planes I've been away doing boy's own stuff and just got back (should have unsubscribed for the duration ;-)First thing I noticed upon my return home was the latest Wooden Boat mag has an article on planes and is worth a look even if you don't like boats.To make it easy for rapid browsing in the newsagents the article is on page 54 of WB141 (March/April).Just in case you don't know what a Record 9-1/2 looks like(?) you can see one as well as a LN low angle block plane.Interestingly there is also a mention of an overgrown chisel called a Slick.The article mentions these are used for amonst other things for making scarfs and that is how I make my scarfs for nodeless rods. I clamp the section into a scarfing block and a single stroke from the slick makes the cut because the slick is very heavy and the handle is so long you can realy put your weight behind it. Also, on page 112 is an article on the Incra Rules for the last word on accurate marking on wood. Looks like it only(?) goes down to 1/64th but this is great for woodworking.While I'm at it I might as well mention it also has an article on *real* Americias Cup boats capable of sailing in *real* weather not the flimsy mega million dollar toys of today sailed by tecnocrats and are as to a realyacht a Sage is to a PHY Driggs. These older boats weren't what you'd call cheap but they're still sailing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jstickle@erols.com Thu Apr 9 05:05:50 1998 Subject: WoodenBoat Plane Article As a librarian I would like to comment on the "latest issue" article inWooden boat. 1. There is no Stanley 9 1/2 shown. 2. The cite for thearticle is: "The Boatbuilder's Essential Edge Tools" Photographs by Darel BridgesWoodenBoat Number 141, March/April 1998pages 54-59 Jeffrey R. StickleAnnandale, Virginia from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Thu Apr 9 07:38:07 1998 9 Apr 98 08:44:27 -0500 0500 9 Apr 98 08:44:02 -0500 Subject: Re: Grand silk order Let me know I will probably be interested in it also.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Grand silk order Regarding the custom silk order, I will give the idea a few more days topercolate. After that, I shall contact everyone who has expressedinteresttofind a consensus for color and size. At present, it looks like theconsensusis for 5/0 or 4/0. Color is not as narrowed-down.Chris Lucker from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 9 07:42:56 1998 Subject: Re:RE: SewellDunton rod RO>Hank;RO>Sewell Dunton bought out Montague's bamboo rod division when theyclosed itRO>out, he had been a bamboo broker previously. While this should be agoodRO>clue as to the quality of his rods, seeing as he used all of Montague'soldRO>equipment, it should be noted that when Sewell got out of the rodbusiness,RO>he sold all of the equipment to Thomas &Thomas. Check out DickSpurr's "RO>Bamboo Rodmakers, Past and Present".RO> John Channer John, I've read this also. I've always wondered - was the equipment inquestion some of Montague's production rod equipment or was it theirhand-built rod dept's equipment? My impression is that the betterMontague rods where hand- planed. Montague did make a few nice rods - the Manitou, Red Wing etc. plus thecustom Varney rods made by the company's head-rodmaker. Don Burns from stpete@netten.net Thu Apr 9 08:01:53 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA05782 for Subject: Re: Grand silk order CA Lucker wrote:... I shall contact everyone who has expressed interest... I'd like to participate in the order. I'm strictly amateur so I'm opento colors and I'll go along with the consensus on size. Rick Crenshaw from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 9 09:43:43 1998 Subject: Bamboo rods & float tubes? All, Does anyone routinely float tube FF and use a bamboo rod? Have you hadany problems from getting the rod wet? Don Burns from WILHELM.RON@EPAMAIL.EPA.GOV Thu Apr 9 10:12:24 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Thu, 09 Apr 1998 09:10:06 -0400 Subject: Re: Grand silk order -Reply Chris, This sounds good. Count me in. If possible let me know the details. Ron from bjcoch@arkansas.net Thu Apr 9 10:27:41 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id KAA08017 for Subject: Re: jewellery Douglas P. Easton wrote: Bryant, This sounds good; how does one determine the correct size for the line? I use 3 pieces,(short leftovers from making shooting tapers), of the linesizethe rod is designed to cast, if these fit smoothly through the snake guidethatis the small size for that line weight. The large size is 2 numbers up fromthesmall size number. I always use spinning rod guides fro the strippers andlargeloop tiptops. You can get more info on guides from Angler's Work Shop orClemens.Bryant C. from AWood70928@aol.com Thu Apr 9 10:58:30 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rods & float tubes? In a message dated 4/9/98 10:52:03 AM Eastern Daylight Time,flyfisher@cmix.com writes: Don, Does a kick boat count? If so, I fish from a kick boat a lot here in NewHampshire. Our ponds seem to be a bit better than the streams in thesouthernpart of the state. I use several different cane rods from 3 to 6 wt's fortrout and an old 8wt salmon rod for bass. Some of the rods are new -some areold, some impregnated and some varnished. I haven't had any problemswithwater hurting any of them. I am conscious of not sticking the tip in thewater like I might a graphite, and I do take them out of their tubes when Iget home and let them air out. I get a lot of strange looks and always hearthe comments that I can't reach out as far as the guys with hi tech gear.Well, I always thought the idea of a tube was that it was supposed to getyoucloser to the fish without spooking them, so that argument escapes me. Idoknow that with that 7 foot 3 wt I can drop a midge on the water with lessof aripple than mother nature herself would make. It's just a relaxed way offishing for me, using cane rods on a pond out of the kick boat. Seeing ashowour ponds don't open up for a couple of weeks here yet, thanks for thequestion, it brought back some fond memories. Al WoodardManchester, NH from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Apr 9 11:59:25 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 09 Apr 98 12:58:39 EDT Subject: Re: Grand silk order:Chris, Count me in for a couple ofspools. B. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from thramer@presys.com Thu Apr 9 12:39:45 1998 Subject: Silk Thread Sizing In regard to the preffered size of silk I woulf like to see size A inthe Belding Corticelli. The BC thread I have used was very soft andwrapped super flat compared to the British or Japanese thread. Size Aworked for Garrison because of the unique properties of BC thread. Imight think about 2/0. No use whatever for finer thread though. think it is practical for the person handling the purchase to send out 1- 2 spools. A minimum of 1 - 2 dozen might be more practical.Other colors would be the BC Antique Gold or Granger Green.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Thu Apr 9 12:44:51 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rods & float tubes? flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: All, Does anyone routinely float tube FF and use a bamboo rod? Have you hadany problems from getting the rod wet? Don BurnsHi Don,I float tube constantly and have had no problems with water. One rod Iuse is an 8 5/6 para varnished and the other is an 8 1/2 6/7 paravarnished.A.J.Thramer from jdunnigan@wyle.com Thu Apr 9 13:27:47 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.01) with SMTP id AAA49C9 0700 Subject: Forms =_NextPart_000_01BD63A9.8FD9F250" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD63A9.8FD9F250 All Has anyone used the forms from Colorado Bootstrap?Any impressions of quality, value, functionality for both the Metal and theWoodforms?Any other sources of forms? Also does anyone know if there would be someone available for instructionin theSF bay/San Jose area if perspective student has the necessary tools. Names, phone numbers oremailaddresses of instructorswould be greatly appreciated. Thanks Jack------ =_NextPart_000_01BD63A9.8FD9F250 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD63A9.8FD9F250-- from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Apr 9 14:28:22 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Sizing I agree with AJ on this and would be interested the Payne brown andantiquegold, a dozen or two of each. My preference would also be size A or 00. from anglport@con2.com Thu Apr 9 15:04:25 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA20388 for Subject: Re: Jerry; Archives? Jerry,I reloaded until I was blue in the face. I can't seem to get the WHOLEmonth. I used to think that if the whole file didn't come in, the machinedidn't recognize any part of it. How can I have a usable Mar. '98 Archivewithout the last 5 days?????ArtAt 10:44 PM 4/8/98 -0500, you wrote:Art I'm having a similar problem..i may have to split the archive, from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 9 16:59:17 1998 Subject: Cute Chris ! As we have been talking about rod making classes I thought I wouldsharedwith the list the good sense of humor that runs with the group. Today Irecieved a box - upon opening it I discovered a picture - a note - and a lotof nodes. Apparently Chris (Bogart) has just finished conducting a class.Chris, as most know, makes nodeless rods and has taught others as well -evidenced by the box of nodes. Cute Chris Cute - Nodes Are Our FriendsWayne from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Apr 9 17:15:21 1998 Subject: Re: SewellDunton rod FISHWOOL wrote:My question is: Does this quality of workmanship obtain throughouttheSewell Dunton rods or do they vary considerably? I must say the finishandcosmetics are great and the taper seems good.Thanks in advance for any info.Hank.Hank,I've seen a lot of Dunton rods up here in N.H. and can only remark thathe, and his son, were not interested in producing "show" rods. Usuallythe fittings, even on his salmon sticks, were inexpensive, and lookedit. However, I never detected any open glue joints. And didn't Gingrichin "Joy of Trout" give him high praise for his repair work, or am Ithinking of someone else?But it's all in the tapers, and he used Montague tapers, which weremade extra woody to overcome poor cane and sanding of nodes.Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Apr 9 17:18:00 1998 Subject: Re: SewellDunton rod flyfisher@cmix.com wrote:Montague did make a few nice rods - the Manitou, Red Wing etc. plus thecustom Varney rods made by the company's head- rodmaker. Don BurnsDon,I have a beautiful Manitou 9' 3wt, that I wouldn't trade for mostLeonards.Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Apr 9 17:26:23 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Sizing A.J.Thramer wrote: In regard to the preffered size of silk I woulf like to see size A inthe Belding Corticelli. The BC thread I have used was very soft andwrapped super flat compared to the British or Japanese thread. Size Aworked for Garrison because of the unique properties of BC thread. Imight think about 2/0. No use whatever for finer thread though. think it is practical for the person handling the purchase to send out 1- 2 spools. A minimum of 1 - 2 dozen might be more practical.Other colors would be the BC Antique Gold or Granger Green.A.J.ThramerA.J.,I agree about the BC, the twist is different and does lay better. I getmany different BC silks (including one of my favorites - Antique Gold)in size A, for as little as 1.25 a spool (depending on age of marking)at a nearby fabric Mill Store.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Apr 9 17:29:35 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rods & float tubes? AWood70928 wrote:Does a kick boat count? If so, I fish from a kick boat a lot here in NewHampshire. Our ponds seem to be a bit better than the streams in thesouthernpart of the state. Al,You must be fishing the wrong streams. I find some great fishingdownhere.Best regards,ReedTemple, N.H. from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 9 17:37:26 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Bamboo rods & float tubes? RO>Hi Don,RO> I float tube constantly and have had no problems with water. One rod IRO>use is an 8 5/6 para varnished and the other is an 8 1/2 6/7 paraRO>varnished.RO>A.J.Thramer A.J. Thanks for the reply. Don PS - I've tried to email you directly regarding jasper thread - did youreceive my 2 posts? from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 9 17:37:28 1998 Subject: RE:Silk Thread Sizing RO>In regard to the preffered size of silk I woulf like to see size A inRO>the Belding Corticelli. The BC thread I have used was very soft andRO>wrapped super flat compared to the British or Japanese thread. Size ARO>worked for Garrison because of the unique properties of BC thread. IRO>might think about 2/0. No use whatever for finer thread though.RO> For Payne brown in size A I could be counted on for $500, I don'tRO>think it is practical for the person handling the purchase to send out 1RO>- 2 spools. A minimum of 1 - 2 dozen might be more practical.RO> Other colors would be the BC Antique Gold or Granger Green.RO>A.J.Thramer Colors and sizes above are what I'd want too. But quanity would need tobe less, in my case - can't swing $500 at the moment. Uncle Sam's IRStook all my spare lunch money. Maybe $100? Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 9 17:48:17 1998 Subject: Re: SewellDunton rod RO>flyfisher@cmix.com wrote:RO>> Montague did make a few nice rods - the Manitou, Red Wing etc. plustheRO>> custom Varney rods made by the company's head-rodmaker.RO>>RO>> Don BurnsRO>Don,RO> I have a beautiful Manitou 9' 3wt, that I wouldn't trade for mostRO>Leonards.RO>Reed Reed, I've an unlabled 8'6" Monty trade rod that's almost a Manitou/Redwing inspec's. The cane work was as good as any that I've seen on anyproduction rod. Still it's a strange rod, the ferrules were downgradedto NS straight tube (not Montague bottle-style) serrated rolled-weltferrules. A real strange ferrule - how much could they have saved bygoing to rolled-welt yet still serrating it? But trade rods were made toorder. My 7'6" Fishkill is a nice rod too. Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 9 17:50:35 1998 Subject: Re: SewellDunton rod RO>Hank,RO> I've seen a lot of Dunton rods up here in N.H. and can only remarkthatRO>he, and his son, were not interested in producing "show" rods. UsuallyRO>the fittings, even on his salmon sticks, were inexpensive, and lookedRO>it. However, I never detected any open glue joints. And didn't GingrichRO>in "Joy of Trout" give him high praise for his repair work, or am IRO>thinking of someone else?RO> But it's all in the tapers, and he used Montague tapers, whichwereRO>made extra woody to overcome poor cane and sanding of nodes.RO>Reed Reed, i have an 8'6" Heddon #14 - 2F that's labeled "Restored by SewellDutton" - too bad it's got a bum single tip. (being scarfed right now)Sewell's restoration work seems okay, not special. Don Burns from rcurry@top.monad.net Thu Apr 9 18:07:25 1998 Subject: Re: SewellDunton rod flyfisher@cmix.com wrote:My 7'6" Fishkill is a nice rod too. Don BurnsDon,I had a 9' Fishkill with blackened NS (rolled welt) serrated ferrulesand the nicest, finely threaded brass/NS skeleton reelseat with a walnutinsert. Unfortunately, the action was lamentable.Reed from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 9 18:36:09 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rods & float tubes? Don,I don't do any float tubing but I am not very tall and I don't carry a wadingstaff so when I get into sticky situations when wading I use my rod as acounter balance by sticking the tip section in the water ( sort of like atightrope walker would use his balance pole for ) I have done this foryearsand I have never had a problem with any rods. Also I fish a lot in the rainand under other adverse conditions and have never had a rod fail. Everyonethinks our bamboo rods are not very tough but they can take more abusethanmost people give them credit for. Don't forget bamboo has greater tensilestrength than steel.Bret from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 9 18:41:24 1998 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.ER67J3138764=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Cute Chris ! --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.ER67J3138764=_=_=_ Wayne Believe it or not - it was the student(s) idea. But isn't technologygreat! I just happened to have them scanned and included for the benefitof the the group now that you brought up the subject - He He He...... Believethis is the offending picture. I have plenty more . . Chris On Thu, 9 Apr 1998 17:46:40 EDT, Wayne Catt wrote: As we have been talking about rod making classes I thought I wouldsharedwith the list the good sense of humor that runs with the group. Today Irecieved a box - upon opening it I discovered a picture - a note - and a lotof nodes. Apparently Chris (Bogart) has just finished conducting a class.Chris, as most know, makes nodeless rods and has taught others as well -evidenced by the box of nodes. Cute Chris Cute - Nodes Are Our FriendsWayne Regards Chris --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.ER67J3138764=_=_=_ 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 --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.ER67J3138764=_=_=_-- from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu Apr 9 19:48:05 1998 mailfep2-hme1 via dsmap-1.22 Subject: Re: website shutdown type="54455854"; Tony Young wrote: On Wed, 8 Apr 1998, Thomas Penrose wrote: Since I am no longer an employee of the University of Idaho, mywebsitewith pages regarding making planing forms, etc. is scheduled fortermination in mid-May. I am not sure how long it might be beforeI amable to put the site back up at a different location. If anyonewants toprint out any of this information, now would be the best time. Thomas: You can get several megabytes of FREE web site space at Geocities. Itcosts absolutely nothing and no strings attached. It's real easy toaccess with any standard FTP software and they're very user friendly.Check them out for full details and instructions athttp://www.geocities.com Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Apr 9 19:50:59 1998 Subject: Re: the big bamboo I also have been pleased with the cane Andy has sent. I appreciate thiseven more when I here Terry say similar things. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Terence Ackland Subject: the big bambooDate: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 8:50 PM About 6 weeks ago I received a shipment of 2 bales of cane from myregular supplier which has been getting worse over the years, which Iwas lead to believe was the Chinese adjusting to a free market economy.A. Royer phoned me a couple of weeks ago and suggested I try some of hisbamboo. the freight from the west coast was about $75 so I decided thatI should order 4 bales asthe shipping was about the same as for one bale.I received my Royer cane on Friday and got to unwrap 2 bales and I mustadmit that this is the best cane I have ever seen in the 15 years ofrodmaking.I remember a year or so ago when Royer first appeared on the list with apromise of supplying good bamboo, I made a comment on how can a newkidon the block be in a position to supply unmarked can when establishedcompanies cannot. The cane I received is thick, yellow and unmarked. I have some that mustbe 4in dia, incredible.I feel great, all is not lost, perhaps there is good bamboo out there.Terry from triadvertising@sprintmail.com Thu Apr 9 19:55:46 1998 mailfep2-hme1 via dsmap-1.22 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Sizing type="54455854"; TSmithwick wrote: I agree with AJ on this and would be interested the Payne brown andantiquegold, a dozen or two of each. My preference would also be size A or00. I would be interested in several dozen each of Payne brown and antiquegold. Joe Loverti Loverti Custom Cane Fly Rodshttp://www.triadvertising.com/canerods