from AWood70928@aol.com Thu Apr 9 19:59:39 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rods & float tubes? In a message dated 4/9/98 6:35:12 PM Eastern Daylight Time,rcurry@top.monad.net writes: Reed, I notice you didn't mention any specific names of rivers or streams :) Hinthint. Al from jfoster@gte.net Thu Apr 9 20:07:47 1998 Subject: Re: website shutdown Tom get to me offline i can probably build it behind your link for you jerry from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Apr 9 20:21:44 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA20947; Thu, 9 Apr 199821:20:00 Subject: Re: jewellery At 10:27 AM 4/9/98 -0500, Bryant J. Cochran, Jr. wrote: Douglas P. Easton wrote: Bryant, This sounds good; how does one determine the correct size for the line? I use 3 pieces,(short leftovers from making shooting tapers), of the linesizethe rod is designed to cast, if these fit smoothly through the snake guidethatis the small size for that line weight. The large size is 2 numbers up from thesmall size number. I always use spinning rod guides fro the strippers andlargeloop tiptops. You can get more info on guides from Angler's Work Shop orClemens.Bryant C. Thanks, Bryant. This is the most definitive answer to this question I'veseen. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 9 21:21:08 1998 Subject: Re: Re: jewellery Terry,I have to agree with Bryant-I usually over size my stripper and thesnakesand i've had only one complaint and he wasn't going to buy the rod anyway.Regards,Hank.P.S. I use only the wire tip tops-often over size on larger line rods. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 9 21:23:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Grand silk order Chris,I'll go in for a half dozen spools of 2 of the most popular colors.Hank. from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Thu Apr 9 21:24:18 1998 SMTP idTAA15173 for ; Thu, 9 Apr 1998 19:24:08 - Subject: Re: Grand silk order flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>I'd be happy to order a couple of spools in the agreed upon colors. WouldbRO>happy to throw in $5 - $10 (US).RO>Joe Mulvey Same here, Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or Canerods@aol.com Me Too! from cphisey@neca.com Thu Apr 9 21:50:35 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Sizing At 03:26 PM 4/9/98 EDT, you wrote:I agree with AJ on this and would be interested the Payne brown andantiquegold, a dozen or two of each. My preference would also be size A or 00. Chris ,I'd go along with this,let us know what is needed orderwise tomakethis work for you without you killing yourself.Best to keep it simple.Thanks,Charlie Hisey from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Apr 9 22:04:33 1998 (METDST) Subject: wooden 5-strip planing form Hi Rodmakers! Has anyone a drawing/guidance for a wooden, 5-strip planing form?Or there`s one finished to sale? Thanks for all answers! Stefan/Switzerland from Nodewrrior@aol.com Thu Apr 9 22:53:50 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Sizing Maybe we should compromise somewhere between 0000 and A?How 'bout 00?Just an idea... Rob Hoffhines from anglport@con2.com Thu Apr 9 23:10:58 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id AAA03617 for All,I could swear I saw something about a router bit which would LEAVE a 60degedge on a shelf, a la a bullnose bit, but not rounded. ---------| || |\ /\ // \/ \| || |--- ----| || |Has anyone seen such an item in any catalog? Thanks,Art from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 10 00:19:04 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA5173 +0000 Subject: Re: SewellDunton rod I bought a couple of Sewell Dunton blanks from T&T when they first boughthim out.They were good quality with nice ferrules...but T&T may have introducedsome QCthat wasn't there before the purchase, i.e., they may not have soldcomponents thatbelow a certain level of quality. George W. Bourkeaka:irish-george@worldnet.att.net ----------From: john channer Subject: Re: SewellDunton rodDate: Thursday, February 19, 1998 8:20 AM At 11:27 AM 4/8/98 EDT, you wrote:To all,I'm replacing a ferrule on a Sewell Dunton rod and am wonderingaboutthequality of the rods in general. This one has random node spacing withthenodes on the mid on the same locus on strips 1,2 4,5. I also find thattheguide feet are not filed nor are the ferrule ends. The wraps are sizeA-atleast they're larger than the OO I'm using. One of the tip ferrules ismissing. Whoever took it off butchered the bamboo. The other maleferrule onthe 2nd tip had to be removed as I couldn't match it . The slide wasindentedinto the cane in 2 spots 180 degrees from one another-I thought theferrulewas pinned-not so. I ended up filing the ferrule off and replacing thesetwith a super z-the female ferrule that had replaced the original wastoolarge My question is: Does this quality of workmanship obtain throughouttheSewell Dunton rods or do they vary considerably? I must say the finishandcosmetics are great and the taper seems good.Thanks in advance for any info.Hank. Hank;Sewell Dunton bought out Montague's bamboo rod division when theycloseditout, he had been a bamboo broker previously. While this should be a goodclue as to the quality of his rods, seeing as he used all of Montague'soldequipment, it should be noted that when Sewell got out of the rodbusiness,he sold all of the equipment to Thomas &Thomas. Check out Dick Spurr's "Bamboo Rodmakers, Past and Present".John Channer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Fri Apr 10 00:58:51 1998 mtigwc03.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA25211 +0000 Subject: Re: CMT makes a couple of bits that could work (depending on how you dothings).One is an edge trimming bit, 30 degrees (for a two-piece adjustableplaningform, 30 degreeson one side + 30 degrees on the other side gives you 60 degrees), partnumber for that is821.030.11 and price is $15.90. The other choice, for a one piece planingform (60 degreeplough cut) is called a 60 degree laser point bit, part number 858.001.11and price is$32.90.Both of these items are in the catalog the The Japan Woodworker sent me(itONLYhas CMT router bits and saw blades) when I requested information on thebamboo froe theysell that some in the group have been raving about. Does anyone have thepart number andprice on that? George Bourkeirish-george@worldnet.att.net----------From: Art Port Subject: Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 9:20 PM All,I could swear I saw something about a router bit which would LEAVE a60degedge on a shelf, a la a bullnose bit, but not rounded. ---------| || |\ /\ // \/ \| || |--- ----| || |Has anyone seen such an item in any catalog? Thanks,Art from channer@hubwest.com Fri Apr 10 01:31:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AD3F1E00DC; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 00:33:35 MDT Subject: Re:RE: SewellDunton rod At 05:42 AM 4/9/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>Hank;RO>Sewell Dunton bought out Montague's bamboo rod division when theyclosed itRO>out, he had been a bamboo broker previously. While this should be agoodRO>clue as to the quality of his rods, seeing as he used all of Montague'soldRO>equipment, it should be noted that when Sewell got out of the rodbusiness,RO>he sold all of the equipment to Thomas &Thomas. Check out DickSpurr's "RO>Bamboo Rodmakers, Past and Present".RO> John Channer John, I've read this also. I've always wondered - was the equipment inquestion some of Montague's production rod equipment or was it theirhand-built rod dept's equipment? My impression is that the betterMontague rods where hand- planed. Montague did make a few nice rods - the Manitou, Red Wing etc. plus thecustom Varney rods made by the company's head-rodmaker. Don Burns Don;I wondered about that,too. But not being the least bit interested inMontagues, what I've always wondered is whatever happened to Heddon'sequipment. Judging by the Heddon's I've seen and their reputation forquality I would much rather run into their equipment and patterns, itdoesn't cost any more to dream big. By the way, does anyone have thetapers Rods of any length/weight? I'ld offer to buy these tapers, if I had anymoney to spend that is. One thing about this hobby, it will cure yourexcess cash problems in a big hurry.John Channer from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Apr 10 06:38:42 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA24706 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Sizing Nodewrrior wrote: Maybe we should compromise somewhere between 0000 and A?How 'bout 00?Just an idea... Rob Hoffhines I would be interested in several spools of 00. Regards, Steve Independence, MO from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Apr 10 07:27:20 1998 Subject: Re:RE: SewellDunton rod At 04:04 PM 2/20/98, you wrote:One thing about this hobby, it will cure yourexcess cash problems in a big hurry.John Channer John,You must not be married. Gary from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 10 07:44:15 1998 Subject: Re: wooden 5-strip planing form Stefan - To my knowledge, the only forms available are some aluminumversionsmade by George Barnes. If you want to purchase forms I would recommendyoucontact George, who is on this list.Making five strip forms is possible. Bill Fink and I did an article for TPF afew years ago, and it is also in "The Best of the Planing Form". Bill becameinterested in 5 strip design, and has built some dry fly rods of impressivecasting ability.There is a lot to this, contact me off list if you want further information. Tom Smithwick from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Apr 10 08:03:08 1998 1997)) id862565E2.00471C84 ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 07:56:43 -0500 Subject: Re: wooden 5-strip planing form Richard Tyree also builds five sided rods. He may have some input as well. -Ed Estlow from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Apr 10 08:04:31 1998 Subject: Re:RE: SewellDunton rod RO>Don;RO>I wondered about that,too. But not being the least bit interested inRO>Montagues, what I've always wondered is whatever happened toHeddon'sRO>equipment. Judging by the Heddon's I've seen and their reputation forRO>quality I would much rather run into their equipment and patterns, itRO>doesn't cost any more to dream big. By the way, does anyone have thetapersRO>for any 8' or shorter 35's, 60's, Presidents or even maybe a #1000 RodofRO>Rods of any length/weight? I'ld offer to buy these tapers, if I had anyRO>money to spend that is. One thing about this hobby, it will cure yourRO>excess cash problems in a big hurry.RO> John Channer John, I've got an 8' Heddon #125 (3/2) 1-3/4F that I'm bringing back form thedead right now. don't believe a Heddon taper would differ model tomodel. When I get the rod ready to refinish, I'll post the taper. Note: I'mscarfing the mid and tips - all are broken at the mid/tip ferrulestations. But I don't believe I'll be off taper by much, if at all. Don Burns from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Apr 10 08:18:55 1998 1997)) id862565E2.00488B53 ; Fri, 10 Apr 1998 08:12:22 -0500 Subject: Tensile Strength Is it true that bamboo has a higher tensile strength than steel? I could bewrong but I seriously doubt it. Steels have a tensile strength of anywhere from 30,000 psi (that's POUNDS per square inch) to 350,000 psi for thespecialty steels. Typically I've seen bamboo strengths quoted in osi - OUNCES per square inch. I point out the obvious - there is a factor of 16between them. I have seen in recent threads that people are nervous aboutgoing over 200,000 osi in the stress curves. 200,000 osi is 12,500 psi,much lower than even cold rolled steel's allowable or ultimate tensilestrength (around 30,000 psi, I believe). Regards,Ed Estlow Grhghlndr on 04/09/98 06:24:36 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Bamboo rods & float tubes? Don,I don't do any float tubing but I am not very tall and I don't carry awadingstaff so when I get into sticky situations when wading I use my rod as acounter balance by sticking the tip section in the water ( sort of like atightrope walker would use his balance pole for ) I have done this foryearsand I have never had a problem with any rods. Also I fish a lot in the rainand under other adverse conditions and have never had a rod fail. Everyonethinks our bamboo rods are not very tough but they can take more abusethanmost people give them credit for. Don't forget bamboo has greater tensilestrength than steel.Bret from TSmithwick@aol.com Fri Apr 10 08:58:18 1998 Subject: Re: Tensile Strength In a message dated 4/10/98 1:23:35 PM, you wrote: Ed - I have heard it said that ultimate tensile strengths in bamboo doapproach those of mild steel. I am not sure how much that means in termsofrodbuilding, other than an estimation of breaking strength. The functionsof arod, in terms of casting ability and resistance to sets would have more todowith yield strength, (the ammount of force that creates permanentdeformation)and I have no knowledge of that number or how to measure it. I suspect youcould get into trouble in a hurry comparing two very different materialsonthe basis of numbers alone. from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Fri Apr 10 09:20:07 1998 09:19:59-0500 09:19:58-0500 09:19:58-0500 Subject: Re:RE: SewellDunton rod Speaking of Heddon Rods,I am looking for Heddon reel seat parts and spacers.I have a Heddon Pal Pro fiberglass rod that needs the endcap part for the reel seat. It needs to be black.Also, the spacer is bakelite. Looking for one of those also. Does anybody know where I might find these items? Thanks.Jon Poling At 06:04 AM 4/10/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>Don;RO>I wondered about that,too. But not being the least bit interested inRO>Montagues, what I've always wondered is whatever happened toHeddon'sRO>equipment. Judging by the Heddon's I've seen and their reputation forRO>quality I would much rather run into their equipment and patterns, itRO>doesn't cost any more to dream big. By the way, does anyone have thetapersRO>for any 8' or shorter 35's, 60's, Presidents or even maybe a #1000 RodofRO>Rods of any length/weight? I'ld offer to buy these tapers, if I had anyRO>money to spend that is. One thing about this hobby, it will cure yourRO>excess cash problems in a big hurry.RO> John Channer John, I've got an 8' Heddon #125 (3/2) 1-3/4F that I'm bringing back form thedead right now. don't believe a Heddon taper would differ model tomodel. When I get the rod ready to refinish, I'll post the taper. Note: I'mscarfing the mid and tips - all are broken at the mid/tip ferrulestations. But I don't believe I'll be off taper by much, if at all. Don Burns from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Fri Apr 10 09:30:26 1998 09:30:23-0500 09:30:22-0500 Subject: Re:RE: SewellDunton rod At 09:20 AM 4/10/98 -0600, you wrote:Speaking of Heddon Rods,I am looking for Heddon reel seat parts and spacers.I have a Heddon Pal Pro fiberglass rod that needs the endcap part for the reel seat. It needs to be black.Also, the spacer is bakelite. Looking for one of those also. Does anybody know where I might find these items? Thanks.Jon Poling At 06:04 AM 4/10/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>Don;RO>I wondered about that,too. But not being the least bit interested inRO>Montagues, what I've always wondered is whatever happened toHeddon'sRO>equipment. Judging by the Heddon's I've seen and their reputation forRO>quality I would much rather run into their equipment and patterns, itRO>doesn't cost any more to dream big. By the way, does anyone have thetapersRO>for any 8' or shorter 35's, 60's, Presidents or even maybe a #1000Rod ofRO>Rods of any length/weight? I'ld offer to buy these tapers, if I had anyRO>money to spend that is. One thing about this hobby, it will cure yourRO>excess cash problems in a big hurry.RO> John Channer John, I've got an 8' Heddon #125 (3/2) 1-3/4F that I'm bringing back form thedead right now. don't believe a Heddon taper would differ model tomodel. When I get the rod ready to refinish, I'll post the taper. Note: I'mscarfing the mid and tips - all are broken at the mid/tip ferrulestations. But I don't believe I'll be off taper by much, if at all. Don Burns from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri Apr 10 09:55:51 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id JAA15294 for Subject: Re: Art Port wrote: All, I could swear I saw something about a router bit which would LEAVEa 60degedge on a shelf, a la a bullnose bit, but not rounded.Has anyone seen such an item in any catalog?Art, check out the CMT catalog from THE JAPAN WOODWORKER They havesome neatchamfer bits on page 30. They also have V groving bits and one of them isa60 deg. laser point bit that you can make wooden forms with! The bitsarelisted in the 30-35 dollar range - a good value. Bryant C. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri Apr 10 11:06:48 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: heat treatin check out the heat treating at this web side. Their explanation is thesame as what Walton Powell told me (steam rupture). This is a prettyinteresting way of heat treating. http://www.gtii.com/paulyoung/ Patrick from flyrod@artistree.com Fri Apr 10 13:01:29 1998 LAA17849 Subject: Re:Bamboo Froe numbers Part number for Bamboo Froe from Japan Woodworker is #09.812.5 (doesnot havewood handle) . I personally liked Hida Tools version better. Hida's partnumber is G-3605 B w/out wood handle or part # G-3604 A which doeshave a woodhandle. Note: you will probably will want to make your own wood handlesinceit will be much less expensive. Something like a piece of 3/4 inch dowelsplitin half wrapped with a lot of duct tape will work fine. BTW - These are awork of blacksmithing art. My froe was signed by the maker, just like afinesplit cane fly rod! Hope this helps. Chris Wohlford irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: CMT makes a couple of bits that could work (depending on how you dothings).One is an edge trimming bit, 30 degrees (for a two-piece adjustableplaningform, 30 degreeson one side + 30 degrees on the other side gives you 60 degrees), partnumber for that is821.030.11 and price is $15.90. The other choice, for a one piece planingform (60 degreeplough cut) is called a 60 degree laser point bit, part number 858.001.11and price is$32.90.Both of these items are in the catalog the The Japan Woodworker sentme (itONLYhas CMT router bits and saw blades) when I requested information on thebamboo froe theysell that some in the group have been raving about. Does anyone have thepart number andprice on that? George Bourkeirish-george@worldnet.att.net----------From: Art Port Subject:Date: Thursday, April 09, 1998 9:20 PM All,I could swear I saw something about a router bit which would LEAVE a60degedge on a shelf, a la a bullnose bit, but not rounded. ---------| || |\ /\ // \/ \| || |--- ----| || |Has anyone seen such an item in any catalog?Thanks,Art from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Apr 10 13:46:22 1998 Subject: digital caliper Anyone,I need a new caliper. I have only owned dial types. I am thinking aboutadigital. Any opinions? Gary from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri Apr 10 13:53:32 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Art, I don't know much about router bits, but I have one that cuts a 60degreegroove. It's from Sears. (craftsman) Looks a little like this: | || |\ /\ /\/ Wouldn't that do the same thing, with some sort of guide?Harry BoydArt Port wrote: All,I could swear I saw something about a router bit which would LEAVE a60 degedge on a shelf, a la a bullnose bit, but not rounded. ---------| || |\ /\ // \/ \| || |--- ----| || |Has anyone seen such an item in any catalog?Thanks,Art from david.j.rogers@intel.com Fri Apr 10 14:19:31 1998 Subject: RE: Router bit The Bellinger beveller has a cutter very similar to this. Does anyone know were they get this tool? Maybe custom? David All,I could swear I saw something about a router bit which would LEAVE a60deg edge on a shelf, a la a bullnose bit, but not rounded. ---------| || |\ /\ // \/ \| || |--- ----| || |Has anyone seen such an item in any catalog? Thanks,Art from dryfly@erols.com Fri Apr 10 14:33:29 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Love my digital caliper, quicker to read. Be nice to see a digitaldepth gauge. Heidt wrote: Anyone,I need a new caliper. I have only owned dial types. I am thinkingabout adigital. Any opinions? Gary from donkovach@email.msn.com Fri Apr 10 14:46:12 1998 SMTPSVC;Fri, 10 Apr 1998 12:45:39 -0700 Subject: Re: digital caliper I just ordered a depth gauge from Enco, and I saw they have a couple ofdigital depth gauges in their most recent catalog. They were priced atwellover a hundred dollars though. D.K. Love my digital caliper, quicker to read. Be nice to see a digitaldepth gauge. from thramer@presys.com Fri Apr 10 14:48:48 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Router bit Rogers, David J wrote: The Bellinger beveller has a cutter very similar to this. Does anyoneknow were they get this tool? Maybe custom? David All,I could swear I saw something about a router bit which would LEAVE a60degedge on a shelf, a la a bullnose bit, but not rounded. ---------| || |\ /\ // \/ \| || |--- ----| || |Has anyone seen such an item in any catalog?Thanks,Art Bellinger uses two milling cutters back to back. When dull you canreverse the blades and go again.A.J.ThramerPS they are about 30-40 dollars each and quite readily available. from bjcoch@arkansas.net Fri Apr 10 14:50:48 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id OAA29149 for Subject: Re: Bamboo Froe numbers C.J. Wohlford wrote: I requested information on the > bamboo froe theysellthatsome in the group have been raving about. Does anyone have the partnumber andprice on that? George Bourke irish-george@worldnet.att.net George, the part number is 09.812.5 price is 19.95 in my 94 catalog.Bryant C. from cbogart@shentel.net Fri Apr 10 14:59:20 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper GaryAt this point - if you are going to go digital - get a good one if youplanto drop the big bucks. Stick with a quality brand. This is not the time tosave$$.If you are cost conscious then stay with your analog one and be happy. Itdoesjust as good a job for a lot less.My digital one is a Starrett - I can not justify it on a cost /performance scale - but it isreal neat! - a toy in other words. You may opt not for SPC output and getsolarpower - but then . . . have fun. Chris On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 14:48:39 -0400, Heidt wrote: Anyone,I need a new caliper. I have only owned dial types. I am thinkingaboutadigital. Any opinions? Gary Regards Chris from flyfisher@brinet.com Fri Apr 10 15:43:42 1998 16:44:27 -0400 Subject: Re: digital caliper Heidt wrote: Anyone,I need a new caliper. I have only owned dial types. I am thinkingabout adigital. Any opinions? I work in a precision machine shop and everyone there uses Mitutoyodigital calipers. They are MUCH easier to read, not that dial ones arehard, but you can see numbers not hands. They are accurate to .0005. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from flyfisher@brinet.com Fri Apr 10 15:45:11 1998 16:45:54 -0400 Subject: Re: digital caliper Robert S Williams wrote: Love my digital caliper, quicker to read. Be nice to see a digitaldepth gauge. They are available. So are digital micrometers. They also make themthat plug into computers. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from anglport@con2.com Fri Apr 10 17:11:18 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18534 for Subject: Re: Harry,I know about the 60 deg veining bit but that would take TWO passes at astrip to "mill" it. I have built a router fixture (jig?) which holds therouter so its axis is horizontal (to bore tenons for cabinetry) and it seemsto me that I could pass a strip of cane UNDER the horizontal bit and cut thewhole 60 deg cross-section in one fell swoop! Since I already have theapparatus, I thought that for the price of a bit I could try it out andmaybe make the initial tapering a breeze!I already have two sources for the one I'm hoping to get so I'll let TheList know of my progress on this in the future.BTW, thanks to the fellows who suggested Japan Woodworker and CMT.They bothlook promising.Artps: Sorry for not deleting the rest of this but I was afraid it would makeno sense w/o the diagrams At 01:51 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Art, I don't know much about router bits, but I have one that cuts a 60degreegroove. It's from Sears. (craftsman) Looks a little like this: | || |\ /\ /\/ Wouldn't that do the same thing, with some sort of guide?Harry BoydArt Port wrote: All,I could swear I saw something about a router bit which would LEAVE a60 degedge on a shelf, a la a bullnose bit, but not rounded. ---------| || |\ /\ // \/ \| || |--- ----| || |Has anyone seen such an item in any catalog?Thanks,Art from anglport@con2.com Fri Apr 10 17:15:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18760 for Subject: RE: Router bit At 12:16 PM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote:The Bellinger beveller has a cutter very similar to this. Does anyone know were they get this tool? Maybe custom? David David,I'm sure the Bellinger beveller has a more substantial cutter than a routerbit (at least I hope so!)- probably a mill cutter from metalworking. I don'tthink mine would hold up to the stress of turning out great nos of blanks. Ialso wouldn't expect mine to have the mass required to TAPER the strips.Art from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Apr 10 17:15:42 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Donald, Chris,...Guess I should have said this to start with but what I have looked atisaBrown & Sharp, because the depth rod is round (0.60"). Sound reasonable?Gary from anglport@con2.com Fri Apr 10 17:23:11 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA19244 for Subject: Re: Router bit A.J.,I'm presuming that each of the Bellinger cutters cuts only 30 degs of thefull 60 deg included angle. Am I right? I don't think I want to get involvedin creating an arbor (or two) that would hold them accurately enough to dothat job. They just got better looking though since I got an e-mail rightafter yours from Fred Damsen of Japan Woodworker who assures me thatneitherhe nor CMT stocks such a bit!!!!Ah well, such is life, eh?Art At 12:53 PM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote:Rogers, David J wrote: The Bellinger beveller has a cutter very similar to this. Does anyone Bellinger uses two milling cutters back to back. When dull you canreverse the blades and go again.A.J.ThramerPS they are about 30-40 dollars each and quite readily available. from anglport@con2.com Fri Apr 10 18:33:48 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23138 for Subject: RE: Router bit (JERRY) Just to prove that you're not wasting your time archiving all thoseposts..... Does this ring a bell? Art (And did you ever get an answer??????) BTW, if you'll rat out which Mike it was, I'll go after him directly!! Subject: Re: sanding Mike Where did you find a 60 Deg. inward router bit? Jerry from jczimny@dol.net Fri Apr 10 18:45:03 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Gary,I used the Brown&Sharp for the very reason that you so astutely spotted.Thedepthmeasuring rod is small in diameter and round. It fits small ferrules easilyandisequally handy for measuring cuts on the lathe and mill. I use mine all thetime. Heidt wrote: Donald, Chris,...Guess I should have said this to start with but what I have lookedatis aBrown & Sharp, because the depth rod is round (0.60"). Soundreasonable?Gary from jczimny@dol.net Fri Apr 10 18:55:05 1998 Subject: Re: SewellDunton rod Sewell Dunton bought out the cutting machinery and bamboo stocks ofseveral rodmanufacturers when glass became popular. As I understand, he kept someof thebetter machines and broke up those which the company didn't need. WhenThomas&Thomas bought Dunton, they got everything- cane stocks, glued-up sectionsand three very good milling machines. T&T kept two of the longest bedmills andsold the other. To the best of my knowlege all three are still in use.Dunton never made a hand planed rod. They did have a very good master rodmakerin the shop. (His name now escapes me) The very best that Dunton maderepresentshis best work.John Zimny john channer wrote: At 05:42 AM 4/9/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>Hank;RO>Sewell Dunton bought out Montague's bamboo rod division when theyclosed itRO>out, he had been a bamboo broker previously. While this should be agoodRO>clue as to the quality of his rods, seeing as he used all of Montague'soldRO>equipment, it should be noted that when Sewell got out of the rodbusiness,RO>he sold all of the equipment to Thomas &Thomas. Check out DickSpurr's "RO>Bamboo Rodmakers, Past and Present".RO> John Channer John, I've read this also. I've always wondered - was the equipment inquestion some of Montague's production rod equipment or was it theirhand-built rod dept's equipment? My impression is that the betterMontague rods where hand- planed. Montague did make a few nice rods - the Manitou, Red Wing etc. plus thecustom Varney rods made by the company's head-rodmaker. Don Burns Don;I wondered about that,too. But not being the least bit interested inMontagues, what I've always wondered is whatever happened to Heddon'sequipment. Judging by the Heddon's I've seen and their reputation forquality I would much rather run into their equipment and patterns, itdoesn't cost any more to dream big. By the way, does anyone have thetapers Rods of any length/weight? I'ld offer to buy these tapers, if I had anymoney to spend that is. One thing about this hobby, it will cure yourexcess cash problems in a big hurry.John Channer from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri Apr 10 19:15:04 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Thank you all for the input It's a done deal. Guess it's a B&S.Gary At 07:37 PM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote:Gary,I used the Brown&Sharp for the very reason that you so astutely spotted.The depthmeasuring rod is small in diameter and round. It fits small ferruleseasily and isequally handy for measuring cuts on the lathe and mill. I use mine all thetime. from anglport@con2.com Fri Apr 10 19:24:25 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA26775 for Subject: Re: A different info repository All,I have just gotten access to several masters' rods to mike and realize thatI have no way of reasonably estimating the varnish thickness on them. I'venoticed in the past that several fellows take runs at estimates but I neverconsidered how rough those guesses might be. It would be a great help ifwecould preserve that data for all when we refurbish a rod. I'm sure that thevarious makers had somewhat consistent thicknesses of varnish from rodtorod, even if they didn't try to. Their very methods of most effectively (orcost-effectively) finishing must have imposed maxima and minima ontheir"film thicknesses", no?Anybody have any idea about a PHY ? I just finished miking a Para 15 anditvaries wildly from the one in the Tapers Files. No matter what I consider avarnish thickness, it ain't gonna bring MINE into correspondence with"ours".Any ideas?Art from thramer@presys.com Fri Apr 10 20:19:13 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit Art Port wrote: A.J.,I'm presuming that each of the Bellinger cutters cuts only 30 degs of thefull 60 deg included angle. Am I right? I don't think I want to getinvolvedin creating an arbor (or two) that would hold them accurately enough todothat job. They just got better looking though since I got an e-mail rightafter yours from Fred Damsen of Japan Woodworker who assures me thatneitherhe nor CMT stocks such a bit!!!!Ah well, such is life, eh?Art At 12:53 PM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote:Rogers, David J wrote:The Bellinger beveller has a cutter very similar to this. Doesanyone Bellinger uses two milling cutters back to back. When dull you canreverse the blades and go again.A.J.ThramerPS they are about 30-40 dollars each and quite readily available. It is a metal cutting head and two of them are ganged up on one shaft,each cutting one side of the bamboo strip. Al felt it was easier to usehis Whitehead beveler to initially taper the strips, use the Dickersonbeveler he makes to put the taper into the strips and finish them on theblocks by hand for the last .010" or so as there was a problem gettingthe glue seams tight enough to meet his standards.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Fri Apr 10 20:25:51 1998 Subject: Re: A different info repository Art Port wrote: All,I have just gotten access to several masters' rods to mike and realizethatI have no way of reasonably estimating the varnish thickness on them.I'venoticed in the past that several fellows take runs at estimates but Ineverconsidered how rough those guesses might be. It would be a great help ifwecould preserve that data for all when we refurbish a rod. I'm sure thatthevarious makers had somewhat consistent thicknesses of varnish fromrod torod, even if they didn't try to. Their very methods of most effectively (orcost-effectively) finishing must have imposed maxima and minima ontheir"film thicknesses", no?Anybody have any idea about a PHY ? I just finished miking a Para 15 anditvaries wildly from the one in the Tapers Files. No matter what I consideravarnish thickness, it ain't gonna bring MINE into correspondence with"ours".Any ideas?ArtArt,Nothing unusual about tapers that varied from one rod to another in myexperience with older production rods. It has occurred to me that mightexplain why the old boys used to have the maxim that if you find a rodthat feels 'just right' you had better buy it off the rack immediately.I firmly believe that the standards of construction that we adhere tothese days would be quite humorous to many of the last generation ofbuilders. A.J.Thramer from anglport@con2.com Fri Apr 10 20:47:56 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA02102 for Subject: Re: Router bit AJ,Al is asking a LOT more of his machine than I wished to ask of mine.All I want to do is get the 60 deg bevel started so I don't have to do thatextra planing. I'm hoping that if I straighten enough and mount a couple ofvertically spring-fed roller-bearings to hold the rind side of the cane flaton the table (close enough to the bit), I can bring the horizontally mountedbit down enough to carve both bevels on the strip at once. The router is mounted on a pivoting board mounted to a vertical wallso that the bit sticks through the wall to bore out tenons which would bepush-fed INTO the bit in its original design. This would just give anexisting machine another task. All us computer nerds know aboutmulti-tasking, right?If I can adapt the thing i can make it worth my while to drawpictures and schematics;Buh, foist, I got to git me oneathem BITS!!!!Art At 06:23 PM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote:Art Port wrote: A.J.,I'm presuming that each of the Bellinger cutters cuts only 30 degs ofthefull 60 deg included angle. Am I right? Al felt it was easier to usehis Whitehead beveler to initially taper the strips, use the Dickersonbeveler he makes to put the taper into the strips and finish them on theblocks by hand for the last .010" or so as there was a problem gettingthe glue seams tight enough to meet his standards.A.J.Thramer from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 10 21:09:17 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo rods & float tubes? Nope.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 10 21:09:20 1998 Subject: Re: Silk Thread Sizing Chris,I'm inclined to go with A.J. on thread size and color while I can't do $500I can handle $250. Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 10 21:09:55 1998 Subject: Re: Re:RE: SewellDunton rod Thanks to A.J.,Reed, Don , and John for the info.Hank. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Apr 10 22:17:05 1998 Subject: Heddon Parts Jon,There was a gentleman named Bernard Hills that had bought up all ofHeddonsstuff when he was working for Heddon and he had a lot of that kind ofstuff.Unfortunately Bernard passed away a few years ago and Leon Hansonbought allthe stuff that Bernard had. Leon lives in Plymouth Michigan and I used tohave his phone # but I can't find it anymore. I am sure if you callinformation at either 248-555- 1212 or 313-555-1212 you could get his#. I amnot sure of the prefix as they have changed them around as of late. If youdon't find Leons # let me know and I will ask my brother to get it for youashe lives close to him. Or possibly Wayne or Ron Barch has it.Bret from jfoster@gte.net Fri Apr 10 22:46:58 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't thinkit was the bit we are looking for, i can't remember the guy's name buthe had a setup with the correct bit at the grayrock meeting a couple ofyears ago, maybe some one else remembers, as i recall it was set up todo the rough 60's, no taper. great little gadget, i asked him to bringit this year.. jerry from FLYROD777@aol.com Fri Apr 10 23:37:55 1998 Subject: Re: Cute Chris ! Wayne "To node or Not to node, that is the question" Just kidding Wayne Mark Hallowell from FLYROD777@aol.com Fri Apr 10 23:47:10 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper My machinests at the Navy Machinest School are leary about digital. Justanopinion Mark Hallowell from measter@sdcoe.k12.ca.us Sat Apr 11 00:25:50 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) grizzly sells the bit you're looking for in 90 deg. great if you want todo quads. I looked at having one done for me but the guy wanted 200bucks and as it was untested I passed.mark from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 00:58:42 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A6F9B600BA; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:00:25 MDT Subject: Re: Router bit At 09:57 PM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote:AJ,Al is asking a LOT more of his machine than I wished to ask of mine.All I want to do is get the 60 deg bevel started so I don't have to do thatextra planing. I'm hoping that if I straighten enough and mount a couple ofvertically spring-fed roller-bearings to hold the rind side of the caneflaton the table (close enough to the bit), I can bring the horizontallymountedbit down enough to carve both bevels on the strip at once. The router is mounted on a pivoting board mounted to a vertical wallso that the bit sticks through the wall to bore out tenons which would bepush- fed INTO the bit in its original design. This would just give anexisting machine another task. All us computer nerds know aboutmulti-tasking, right?If I can adapt the thing i can make it worth my while to drawpictures and schematics;Buh, foist, I got to git me oneathem BITS!!!!Art At 06:23 PM 4/10/98 -0700, you wrote:Art Port wrote: A.J.,I'm presuming that each of the Bellinger cutters cuts only 30 degs ofthefull 60 deg included angle. Am I right? Al felt it was easier to usehis Whitehead beveler to initially taper the strips, use the Dickersonbeveler he makes to put the taper into the strips and finish them on theblocks by hand for the last .010" or so as there was a problem gettingthe glue seams tight enough to meet his standards.A.J.Thramer Art;I built a similar set up and use a flush trimming bit and a wooden formmade with a 60 d router bit. Actually, it takes two forms the way I have itset up, first a rough form to get the first side bevelled, then the 60dform for the other side. I feed climb cut( the wrong way for a router tocut) and I'm hoping to get the bugs out of the system enogh to get close tofinal taper with it t he finish by hand, but have a ways to go. The damnthing chatters like crazy and ocassionally takes the strip away from me,amworking on a way to use a pin set below the surfase of the form and ageared crank feed to keep everything where it belongs. I will let you knowif and when I get it working right.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 00:59:08 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A70FB700BA; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:00:47 MDT Subject: Re:RE: SewellDunton rod At 08:29 AM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote:At 04:04 PM 2/20/98, you wrote:One thing about this hobby, it will cure yourexcess cash problems in a big hurry.John Channer John,You must not be married. Gary Gary;25 years this july, its also been roughly that long since I had any money,I've put most of the rodmaking stuff on credit cards and play the 5.9%shuffle. Such is life.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 00:59:22 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A723B900BA; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:01:07 MDT Subject: Heddon taper Don;It would be great to have that taper. The only Heddon I have is a #14- 6/79'. I've tried to compare this to the tapers in the archives and the one ortwo that have been posted and can't find many similarities altho I havebeen told that they made thier blanks all the same and just trimmed themindifferent places for different rods. Can't have too many tapers layingaround.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 06:56:32 1998 Subject: RE:Heddon Parts RO>Jon,RO>There was a gentleman named Bernard Hills that had bought up all ofHeddonsRO>stuff when he was working for Heddon and he had a lot of that kind ofstuff.RO>Unfortunately Bernard passed away a few years ago and Leon Hansonbought allRO>the stuff that Bernard had. Leon lives in Plymouth Michigan and I usedtoRO>have his phone # but I can't find it anymore. I am sure if you callRO>information at either 248-555- 1212 or 313-555-1212 you could gethis #. IRO>not sure of the prefix as they have changed them around as of late. IfyouRO>don't find Leons # let me know and I will ask my brother to get it foryou aRO>he lives close to him. Or possibly Wayne or Ron Barch has it.RO>Bret Bernard Hills was Heddon's last head rodmaker. I too would be interested in that phone #. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com orcanerods@aol.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 06:56:48 1998 Subject: RE:Heddon taper RO>Don;RO>It would be great to have that taper. The only Heddon I have is a #14-6/7RO>9'. I've tried to compare this to the tapers in the archives and the oneorRO>two that have been posted and can't find many similarities altho I haveRO>been told that they made thier blanks all the same and just trimmedthem inRO>different places for different rods. Can't have too many tapers layingarounRO> John Channer John, I've got a few 9' Heddons myself, one is a 2-3/4F power-plus taper. Getsheavy real fast. Michael Sinclair's recent Heddon book said that they made all of theirsections in 4' lengths, then trimmed to size. That's how their first 2piece 7' rod was made - an employee trimmed down a mid and tips for alonger rod. The factory liked it so much that they made it into a model.(#51 - later #21 & #31 too) This is the only Heddon fly rod made withouta swelled butt. Don B. from flyfisher@brinet.com Sat Apr 11 07:04:02 1998 08:04:54 -0400 Subject: Re: digital caliper Heidt wrote: Donald, Chris,...Guess I should have said this to start with but what I have lookedatis aBrown & Sharp, because the depth rod is round (0.60"). Soundreasonable?Gary I don't have any experience with that brand, butin the shop we typicallydon't use the depth gauge on the caliper because it is dificult to getaccurate readings with it. (It's only good for estimates.) We use dialdepth gauges or depth micrometers. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from flyfisher@brinet.com Sat Apr 11 07:15:03 1998 08:15:55 -0400 Subject: Re: Router bit Has anyone tried using a shaper/molder? The kind that cut molding usepre- shaped blades so you might be able to cut the 60 d all in one pass. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Apr 11 07:41:41 1998 (205.236.248.92) Subject: Re: digital caliper FLYROD777 wrote: My machinests at the Navy Machinest School are leary about digital. Justanopinion Mark Hallowell I guess the salt spray rots them out?Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Apr 11 07:44:20 1998 (205.236.248.92) Subject: Re: digital caliper Donald Yelton wrote: Robert S Williams wrote: Love my digital caliper, quicker to read. Be nice to see a digitaldepth gauge. They are available. So are digital micrometers. They also make themthat plug into computers. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com SPC in rodmaking, why not indeed?Terry from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Apr 11 08:01:48 1998 Subject: Transitional Lines All,I purchased recently a line, new in the box, that seems to mark thetransition between the silk lines and the modern "microsphere" plasticlines. It is a Cortland "333" Non-Sinkable Bonded Finish Nylon Line(Cortline) in WEIGHT HCH. In the attached brochure it is designated asthe "Finest 'TOP WATER' Line with Bonded Finish". (Note the absence ofclaims that it floats.)Why this line is of interest is twofold: 1/ that the line core, as seenthrough the clear plastic finish, is still braided to taper, similar toa silk line, and the finish is uniform thickness; and 2/ The statementthat "To attain correct weight these lines are constructed to exceedslightly the standard calibrations of oil treated lines and aredesignated by weight rather than size."This is the first instance I've found of the move toward the bloatedsausage lines of the modern era. The tip, which is billed as an H(.025), measures out at .036, an F. In my book 144% is more than "exceedslightly". Other interesting differences include the fact, according to thebrochure, that the line comes with only 6" of level "H". It was usual suggests trimming this 6" carefully back to "balance best with theparticular design leader you intend using". Fate forfend if you changeleaders. Care instructions include using the special line cleaner(supplied), and "Dry out line after use by reeling onto line dryer andyou're ready for your next trip." Best regards,Reed from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 11 08:47:04 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) Jerry I think you are talking about Al Medved and his router basedbeveler - it uses a straight bit (very easy to find) and a 60 degree "V"slot. Then it works the same as the Whitehead beveler. I believe plans for his are in the planing form and I have copy somewhere fromAL - or give him a call. BTW he also has a version for doing splices Chris On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 21:44:51 -0500, Jerry Foster wrote: Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't thinkit was the bit we are looking for, i can't remember the guy's name buthe had a setup with the correct bit at the grayrock meeting a couple ofyears ago, maybe some one else remembers, as i recall it was set up todo the rough 60's, no taper. great little gadget, i asked him to bringit this year.. jerry Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 11 08:47:05 1998 Subject: Re: Cute Chris ! MarkIt is very poetic - Shakespeare could not have said itbetter himself or made as good a rod! It does bring up a good question of the choice many rodmakers havetoday.eChris On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 00:37:13 EDT, FLYROD777 wrote: Wayne "To node or Not to node, that is the question" Just kidding Wayne Mark Hallowell Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 11 08:47:06 1998 Subject: Re: Heddon Parts Bret Leon Hanson number is (313) 459-2993and address is 1566 NantucketPlymouth, MI 48170 Chris On Fri, 10 Apr 1998 23:16:25 EDT, Grhghlndr wrote: Jon,There was a gentleman named Bernard Hills that had bought up all ofHeddonsstuff when he was working for Heddon and he had a lot of that kind ofstuff.Unfortunately Bernard passed away a few years ago and Leon Hansonbought allthe stuff that Bernard had. Leon lives in Plymouth Michigan and I used tohave his phone # but I can't find it anymore. I am sure if you callinformation at either 248-555- 1212 or 313-555-1212 you could get his#. I amnot sure of the prefix as they have changed them around as of late. If youdon't find Leons # let me know and I will ask my brother to get it for youashe lives close to him. Or possibly Wayne or Ron Barch has it.Bret Regards Chris from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 11 08:57:02 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Terry The SPC software demo is available from the Starrett web siteif you want to see the future of rodmaking fanaticism for accuracy. Unless you get a portable recording unit - you have to drag the computerintothe shop.The question I ask them now that you know all the stations of the stripsbothbefore andafter glueing and can plot it out 3 ways to sunday - then what? Do you gotoget the perfectzero tolerance graphs and ability to repeat it? We must remember the customer only sees the rod not the processelse wewould never eat sausage! Chris On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:44:25 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: Regards Chris from destinycon@mindspring.com Sat Apr 11 09:13:23 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper At 08:41 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote: FLYROD777 wrote: My machinests at the Navy Machinest School are leary about digital.Just anopinion Mark Hallowell I guess the salt spray rots them out?Terry OK.........the caliper?....or the machinest?Gary from richjez@enteract.com Sat Apr 11 09:31:26 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) JerryI thought he had two bits in his setup.Rich Jezioro At 09:44 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't thinkit was the bit we are looking for, i can't remember the guy's name buthe had a setup with the correct bit at the grayrock meeting a couple ofyears ago, maybe some one else remembers, as i recall it was set up todo the rough 60's, no taper. great little gadget, i asked him to bringit this year.. jerry from richjez@enteract.com Sat Apr 11 09:31:27 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Great Lakes Naval Training Center is on Lake Michigan and is still "fresh"water. At least as of 8am when I was down there last. Rich Jezioro At 08:41 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote: FLYROD777 wrote: My machinests at the Navy Machinest School are leary about digital.Just anopinion Mark Hallowell I guess the salt spray rots them out?Terry from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 09:33:31 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18968 for Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) Thanks Jerry.... ...... Art At 09:44 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't think jerry from jczimny@dol.net Sat Apr 11 09:34:56 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Indeed they should be. But only if you're working in 10ths.John Zimny FLYROD777 wrote: My machinests at the Navy Machinest School are leary about digital. Justanopinion Mark Hallowell from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 09:40:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19257 for Subject: Re: Router bit Mark,I ran into that wall a few years back (I think it was $50 bucks then; giveyou an idea how MANY years back). I wonder with all the machinists wehavein this group if it isn't possible to modify a (high speed) straight 3/4"bit on a lathe and retemper it? Once it's softened (annealed?) it should bea breeze to do with a thread cutter. Then just reharden. Or is that like thekid who says to Dad "All ya gotta do is take the engine out and put it backin again--how long could it take?"Art At 09:32 PM 4/10/98 +0000, you wrote:grizzly sells the bit you're looking for in 90 deg. great if you want todo quads. I looked at having one done for me but the guy wanted 200bucks and as it was untested I passed.mark from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 09:44:53 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19481 for Subject: Re: Router bit John,I'll keep in touch and let you know how my design turns out. Chatter wasn'tone of my worries..perhaps I'd better think this through some more on allcounts. Just remember to LET GO!! I almost didn't in a particularly stupidstunt on my radial arm saw a long while back, but I can still count to ten.Art Art;I built a similar set up and use a flush trimming bit and a wooden formmade with a 60 d router bit. Actually, it takes two forms the way I haveitset up, I will let you knowif and when I get it working right.John Channer from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 09:57:18 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20245 for Subject: Re: Router bit Don,That's the concept I'm working off, but I don't have a shaper and I do havea router. The $200 custom jobbie starts to look like a steal when youcompare it to the price of a shaper AND the needed cutters!Still looking,Art At 08:11 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Has anyone tried using a shaper/molder? The kind that cut molding usepre-shaped blades so you might be able to cut the 60 d all in one pass. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 10:26:27 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21704 for Subject: Thanks, Jerry Snider Jerry,Just got the Sci Am photocopy this am. Appreciate it. If I can ever returnthe favor let me know.Art from stpete@netten.net Sat Apr 11 11:06:20 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA12570 for Subject: Re: Heddon taper I've got a Heddon #115 Premier 8'6", 2F, 3/2. It's been recoated withvarnish by an oldtimer a long while back. Other than that, it's alloriginial. Bag, tube, etc. I understand that the #115 was the Model 20 grade blank made for Searsonly had fewer guides. Anyone out there with M.Sinclair's book,'Heddon, The Rod with the Fighting Heart', that can confirm this? Ihave only his 'Restoration' book. I'd be glad to take the taper, but you guys had better give me somepointers on taking tapers of existing rods with varying finishes. Also,if you average station readings on all flats (3 per station?) Whathappens if a guide is at the station? Let's hear your methods. I wantto contribute to this list but, I don't want to give you guys bum info. I also have an 8' Phillipson Pacemaker that I really like. I'd postthat one also if anyone wants it. Rick Crenshaw from flyfisher@brinet.com Sat Apr 11 11:08:31 1998 12:09:25 -0400 Subject: Re: digital caliper Terence Ackland wrote: Donald Yelton wrote: Robert S Williams wrote: Love my digital caliper, quicker to read. Be nice to see a digitaldepth gauge. They are available. So are digital micrometers. They also make themthat plug into computers. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com SPC in rodmaking, why not indeed?Terry Someone just needs to make the program to enter the stats into a taperprogram. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Apr 11 11:18:11 1998 (205.236.248.141) Subject: Re: digital caliper Cris,STP is used in production manufacturing as as means of tracking qualityor thelack of.It has no practical use for us.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terry The SPC software demo is available from the Starrett web siteif you want to see the future of rodmaking fanaticism for accuracy. Unless you get a portable recording unit - you have to drag the computerintothe shop.The question I ask them now that you know all the stations of the stripsbothbefore andafter glueing and can plot it out 3 ways to sunday - then what? Do yougo toget the perfectzero tolerance graphs and ability to repeat it? We must remember the customer only sees the rod not the processelsewewould never eat sausage! Chris On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:44:25 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: Regards Chris from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Apr 11 11:28:43 1998 (205.236.248.141) Subject: Re: digital caliper Is it digital technology or vernier calipers that the freshwater 'salts' arelearyof?Terry J. C. Zimny wrote: Indeed they should be. But only if you're working in 10ths.John Zimny FLYROD777 wrote: My machinests at the Navy Machinest School are leary about digital. Just anopinion Mark Hallowell from flyfisher@brinet.com Sat Apr 11 11:31:45 1998 12:32:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Router bit Art Port wrote: Don,That's the concept I'm working off, but I don't have a shaper and I do havea router. The $200 custom jobbie starts to look like a steal when youcompare it to the price of a shaper AND the needed cutters!Still looking,Art Jesada has a good selection of router bit. I noticed several 60 d onesthat might do the job. Some of them have bearings for chamfering thatmight do what you want. They run about $36.50. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 11:45:33 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE92C70152; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:47:14 MDT Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) At 10:43 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Thanks Jerry.... ...... Art At 09:44 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't think jerry Art;Shrubbery?? from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 11:51:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AFE315400BA; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:52:51 MDT Subject: Re: Router bit At 10:54 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:John,I'll keep in touch and let you know how my design turns out. Chatterwasn'tone of my worries..perhaps I'd better think this through some more on allcounts. Just remember to LET GO!! I almost didn't in a particularly stupidstunt on my radial arm saw a long while back, but I can still count to ten.Art Art;I built a similar set up and use a flush trimming bit and a wooden formmade with a 60 d router bit. Actually, it takes two forms the way I haveitset up, I will let you knowif and when I get it working right.John Channer Art;Don't worry about my fingers, I'm a carpenter and believe me, I know whento let go! Learned that the hard way a long time ago, still have all ten,but one of them won't straighten out any more. I built my horizontal routertable so my hands couldn't get near the cutter for that very reason. Thanks John(careful in Colorado)Channer from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 11:58:12 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28951 for Subject: Re: Router bit Don,I'm looking...I'm looking....(Is there a mantra tht might help?)Art At 12:28 PM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Art Port wrote: Don,That's the concept I'm working off, but I don't have a shaper and I dohavea router. The $200 custom jobbie starts to look like a steal when youcompare it to the price of a shaper AND the needed cutters!Still looking,Art Jesada has a good selection of router bit. I noticed several 60 d onesthat might do the job. Some of them have bearings for chamfering thatmight do what you want. They run about $36.50. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 12:01:28 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29237 for Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) At 02:18 AM 2/22/98, you wrote:At 10:43 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Thanks Jerry.... ...... Art At 09:44 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't think jerry Art;Shrubbery?? John,I dunno----can ya smoke it?Artps: I got a feelin' we're gonna have to take this off-list if it gets muchwackier. from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 12:03:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2DBDD0152; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:05:31 MDT Subject: Re: Heddon taper At 11:02 AM 4/11/98 -0500, you wrote:I've got a Heddon #115 Premier 8'6", 2F, 3/2. It's been recoated withvarnish by an oldtimer a long while back. Other than that, it's alloriginial. Bag, tube, etc. I understand that the #115 was the Model 20 grade blank made for Searsonly had fewer guides. Anyone out there with M.Sinclair's book,'Heddon, The Rod with the Fighting Heart', that can confirm this? Ihave only his 'Restoration' book. I'd be glad to take the taper, but you guys had better give me somepointers on taking tapers of existing rods with varying finishes. Also,if you average station readings on all flats (3 per station?) Whathappens if a guide is at the station? Let's hear your methods. I wantto contribute to this list but, I don't want to give you guys bum info. I also have an 8' Phillipson Pacemaker that I really like. I'd postthat one also if anyone wants it. Rick Crenshaw Rick;You're right about the 115's, they were #20's with fewer guides andcheaperreel seat, the 125's were standard # 20's with different color thread. Withthe programs available these days you can make your measurements ascloseto 5" as you can and record the distance accurately for the ones that havea guide in the way and the program will figure out the 5" dimensions foryou. Check out Frank Stetzer's version of Hexrod thru Rodmakers, it even iscapable of deducting for varnish, but you have to enter how much. Whemyoumeasure, take all three flats and average.What line weight Pacemaker doyouhave, I'ld be interested in a 5 or 4 weight. I would also be interested inthe Heddon, I assume that the 2F is an HEH or D (5/6).John Channer from stpete@netten.net Sat Apr 11 13:38:25 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA18749 for Subject: Re: Heddon taper John, The Heddon is for HDH or E, so I guess that rates it a 6 wt, but I findit throws a DT #5 well. I use it for multi-purpose fishing ontailwaters and have to make 20' to 50' casts depending on where I'mstanding and how high the water is. A DT#6 makes for better shortcasts. The Phillipson casts a DT#5 well, but I find the Wulff TT 5/6 to be thesuperior line for it. I'll take the tapers tonight or tomorrow and post by Sunday night. Rick from Millsx5@aol.com Sat Apr 11 14:16:36 1998 Subject: Test Having watched for a couple of months I wanted to see if I could get on.Hello to everybody.Mike Mills from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 14:27:57 1998 Subject: Re: RE:Heddon Parts Don,Bernard and I were very good friends and I spent a full day with himsittingin his kitchen talking about rod building, hunting and life in general justtwo days before he died. There are not many people like him in the worldandwhen they pass it is a great loss to us all. I miss him very much and thinkof him and his friendship often.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 14:32:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Heddon Parts Chris,Thanks I don't know what I did with his # but now I have it again. The lasttime I talked to Leon I was sure that he said he had all the bamboo stuffBernard had and I think he may have or knows who has the rest of thestuff.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 14:42:22 1998 Subject: John Channer/ Heddon rods John,I have a Petrie Special made by Heddon that I am looking to possibly sell. 9',3pcs21/2 ferrules. All pieces are the correct length and it looks like originalvarnish but professionally rewrapped. If you are interested let me knowandmake an offer. It is in a cardboard type tube with the original bag and Iwould say the rod is in VG condition. It has been fished as the handle isdirty from sweat and fish juice but will clean up nicely.Bret from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 16:21:38 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AF4528011C; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:23:17 MDT Subject: Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods At 03:41 PM 4/11/98 EDT, you wrote:John,I have a Petrie Special made by Heddon that I am looking to possibly sell.9',3pcs21/2 ferrules. All pieces are the correct length and it looks like originalvarnish but professionally rewrapped. If you are interested let me knowandmake an offer. It is in a cardboard type tube with the original bag and Iwould say the rod is in VG condition. It has been fished as the handle isdirty from sweat and fish juice but will clean up nicely.Bret Bret;While I'ld love to buy it, I'm afraid the current debt to income ratioaround this house won,t allow for it:i.e. I'm broke and haven't evenfigured out how much of what I don't have Uncle Sam is going to want. Outof idle curiosity, what is a Petrie Special, that is one I haven't heardof. I have a #14 HCH or D 9' 3 pc. 2 1/2 F with a featherweight reel seatthat I used for smallmouth fishing back in Illinois, nice rod forstreamers, but too heavy for the trout fishing I do here in Colorado.I wasgoing to sell it thru one of the dealers, but 9' rods are such a drag onthe market these days I figure I'll just hang on to it.If I have anygrandchildren, maybe it will be worth something to them.Good fishin' toyouJohn Channer from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Apr 11 16:52:22 1998 ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:52:14 +1200 Subject: Re: Router bit At 03:31 PM 21/02/98, you wrote:At 09:57 PM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote: Just regarding the discussion on routers and 60 degree angles . I picked upa really interesting book in a garage sale last week .It is called "freshwater tackle " by John Knight , and published in 1949 . The name meansnothing to me but may to some of you and there is a very interesting andapparently informed discussion on cane rods . One of the more interesting comments is the following : " Here again theproduction boys take a short cut . They do not have time to work to closetolerences . Instead their rotary cutters are set at 61 and a half degrees .This ensures a snug fit at the surface of the rod , even though the insideof the rod depends upon a padding of glue to fill up the gaps " Given that many of the old "production" rods were very good rods and thisbook suggests else where that " there are very few handmade rodsavailabletoday " these comments may be relevent to those considering some formofbeveller . regards ian kearney Deleted AJ,Al is asking a LOT more of his machine than I wished to ask ofmine.if and when I get it working right.John Channer Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Sat Apr 11 17:09:22 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Heddon taper Hello, I collect Heddon rods and have about 20 of them in various models andlengths. I can provide tapers when I get the time if interested. I have amodel 20 7 1/2' 2 pc. Featherweight, 8' 2pc Folsum 1522, and 8' 3pc Model10. In the longer rods I have Model 35 and 50's and one Model 60 Deluxe in8 1/2' 2F. Please let me know if any of these tapers would be of interest. I also have several project rods for sale if interested. Email for list. Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 19:53:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods John,I was told that a Petrie Special was made for a store as one of their rods.Unfortunately I obtained this rod after Bernard Hills passed away so Icouldnot ask him about it. Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Apr 11 20:00:35 1998 Subject: Re: Test Hello Mike, Welcome aboard. Dave L. from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 20:06:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3ED9F0118; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:07:57 MDT Subject: Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods At 08:52 PM 4/11/98 EDT, you wrote:John,I was told that a Petrie Special was made for a store as one of their rods.Unfortunately I obtained this rod after Bernard Hills passed away so Icouldnot ask him about it. Bret Bret;Your previous post piqued my curiosity, so I looked thru Mike Sinclair'sbook and discovered that the Petie Special was one of their many traderods.Unfortuneately the book doesn't specify what quality level this rodis, it was their only one for Petrie Sporting Goods in Madison, Wisc. Maybethe wrap colors might match one of their standard models and all they didwas to letter it for Petrie, this was common on many of their trade rods.Ifyou are interested in Heddon, Mike's book is very informative.John Channer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 20:13:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods John,This rod is as good as any Heddons that I have seen. The cane is straightandit has the standard reelseat of theirs plus the ferrules and everything elseis of Heddon quality.Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 20:27:34 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Heddon taper RO>I've got a Heddon #115 Premier 8'6", 2F, 3/2. It's been recoated withRO>varnish by an oldtimer a long while back. Other than that, it's allRO>originial. Bag, tube, etc. RO>I understand that the #115 was the Model 20 grade blank made forSearsRO>only had fewer guides. Anyone out there with M.Sinclair's book,RO>'Heddon, The Rod with the Fighting Heart', that can confirm this? IRO>have only his 'Restoration' book. It's a #20 with fewer guides and cheaper reelseat per "Heddon, The Rodwith the Fighting Heart" by Michael Sinclair. OBTW, this book islight-years ahead of his earlier restoration book in both proofreadingand editing. An excellent book for Heddon collectors. RO>I'd be glad to take the taper, but you guys had better give me someRO>pointers on taking tapers of existing rods with varying finishes. Also,RO>if you average station readings on all flats (3 per station?) WhatRO>happens if a guide is at the station? Let's hear your methods. I wantRO>to contribute to this list but, I don't want to give you guys bum info. The 8'6" #17 (Black Beauty) 2F in the archives should have the sametaper. RO>I also have an 8' Phillipson Pacemaker that I really like. I'd postRO>that one also if anyone wants it. RO>Rick Crenshaw from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 20:27:36 1998 Subject: RE:RE:Heddon Parts RO>Don,RO>Bernard and I were very good friends and I spent a full day with himsittingRO>in his kitchen talking about rod building, hunting and life in generaljustRO>two days before he died. There are not many people like him in theworld anRO>when they pass it is a great loss to us all. I miss him very much andthinkRO>of him and his friendship often.RO>Bret Bret, You should put in writing some of his rodmaking knowledge. Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 20:27:52 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Heddon taper RO>Hello, RO>I collect Heddon rods and have about 20 of them in various models andRO>lengths. I can provide tapers when I get the time if interested. I have aRO>model 20 7 1/2' 2 pc. Featherweight, 8' 2pc Folsum 1522, and 8' 3pcModelRO>10. In the longer rods I have Model 35 and 50's and one Model 60 DeluxeinRO>8 1/2' 2F. RO>Please let me know if any of these tapers would be of interest. RO>I also have several project rods for sale if interested. Email for list. RO>Thanks, RO>Mike Mike, How about stripping down the 7'6" #20 and give us the taper. I would be interested in this taper, even with the varnish. Does it havethe ferrule size marked on it? (I think there was both "0-3/4F" and1-1/2F two- piece rods) Also the 8' Folsom taper, if you get a chance. Don Burns PS - Mike's a good source for project rods. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 20:31:25 1998 Subject: RE:Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods RO>John,RO>This rod is as good as any Heddons that I have seen. The cane isstraight aRO>it has the standard reelseat of theirs plus the ferrules and everythingelseRO>is of Heddon quality.RO>Bret John, Bret and all, Michael Sinclair can be reached at: Caneclinic@aol.com - it takes sometime to get a reply sometimes. I don't know if he picks up his mail eachday. He runs a rod restoration business besides writing his books. Ipassed on Jerry's site to him some time ago and asked him to joinrodmakers too. Maybe he's out there lurking? Don Burns from lblan@provide.net Sat Apr 11 23:14:28 1998 Subject: RE: Router bit If you can find suitable shaper blades, CMT sells a 1/2" shank arbor thatwill allow the use of shaper blades in a router. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, April 11, 1998 8:12 AM Subject: Re: Router bit Has anyone tried using a shaper/molder? The kind that cut molding usepre- shaped blades so you might be able to cut the 60 d all in one pass. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from anglport@con2.com Sun Apr 12 08:30:08 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15595 for Subject: RE: Router bit At 12:13 AM 4/12/98 -0400, you wrote:If you can find suitable shaper blades, CMT sells a 1/2" shank arbor thatwill allow the use of shaper blades in a router. Larry,Now THAT's something that might be workable. I never considered such asolution. This is some powerful brain-trust we have going here. Now, how about we work on ways I could knock another $2000 off myincome taxes?Seriously, thanks,Art from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Apr 12 11:46:57 1998 Subject: Re: RE:RE:Heddon Parts Don,I plan on going up to his daughters house soon to sit down with her andpossibly work on an article for The Bamboo Rod magazine. I am sure thatshehas many photographs of her dad in his shop and at Heddon. I wish that Iwould have kept notes when I was with him but I didn't. All I can go onwiththis is what I remember him showing me and I will have to sort out whatis hisand what I learned elsewhere.Bret from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Apr 12 19:36:08 1998 Subject: Blue Ridge Rodmakers Bamboo BBQ To All In response to those who wanted an mid atlantic / eastern / southernget together for rodmakers this year: I have finally seen daylight from taxes and rods to finalize plans 16/17 May 1998. It just happens this coincides with excellentsmallmouthfishing on the South Fork of the Shenandoah River and prime time on the Shenandoah National Park mountain streams for native brook trout. So bring your fishing gear - good news is a 5 day out of state licence is about$6 and you don't need a trout stamp or National Forest stamp for either fishing - best bargin around! I will have fly tying vise set up for thosewhoare pattern challanged or just want to try some new ideas. This is an informal affair for rodmakers to get together and enjoygood rods, fishing, and refreshments. The shop will be open and benchesset up for those who want to bring gadgets and things to share. The riverisabout 250 yrd walk / drive from the shop and there is a public fishing lake parking across the street. On Saturday I will be starting about 0800 to get things open for everyone and it will go until ???? On Sunday it is fishing in the AM andat 2:00 PM my friends at the Shenandoah Lodge is giving me the useof the Lido Deck and their "big Bertha" BBQ grill plus the assistance oftheir head chief who always out does himself. I will have sodas and beer campgroundsat the Shenandoah River Outfitters who are less than a half mile furtherdowntheroad the number is 540 743-4159 to make reservations - I have most ofthe otherplaces to stay linked off my homepage (www.shentel.net/canerod). So for those who plan to come please send me an email off thelistserveso I can plan to have enough for everyone. Directions and other info tofollow. Please pass the info on to anyone who is a rodmaker and would like toattend. Regards Chris from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Apr 12 21:43:09 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Well the way I feel aafterr 22 years it may very well be the machinest Mark H from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Apr 12 21:44:03 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Jerry How close are you? Be nice to have someone else local to touch baseswith. Local 847-688-1330 or 2429 (W) Mark H from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 13 00:35:08 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA22237 +0000 Subject: Thanks to all for froe info Thanks to all who responded! George W. Bourke (NOT Barnes)aka irish-george@worldnet.att.net from stpete@netten.net Mon Apr 13 00:46:36 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA14150 for Subject: Phillipson Pacemaker taper Here is the taper for my Phillipson Pacemaker. 8'0", 3/2, casts a WulffTT 5/6 very nicely. Obviously has a swelled butt into that funkylooking but very comfortable Phillipson full wells grip. tip 32" 0" .0705" .08510" .09615" .10920" .12525" .13730" .149 mid3" .1755" .18410" .19315" .20620" .21525" .22430" .229 butt3" .2625" .26610" .28915" .29420" .30622" .345 this is the swell just before the wrap at the grip. Varnish on the rod plus one re-dip, so figure from there on thethickness. Rick from stpete@netten.net Mon Apr 13 00:54:42 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA14339 for Subject: Taper for Heddon Premier #115 Taper is taken from Heddon Premier #115, 8'6", 2F, 3/2, for HDH or Eline. tip 34-1/2"0" .0835" .10110" .11015" .12320" .14025" .15030" .16733" .173 mid3" .1745" .17810" .19515" .21020" .22525" .23730" .25133" .258 butt3" .2865" .29010" .30015" .31920" .32623" .422 this is the dramatic swelled butt of this rod before itgoes into the grip Varnish is old original plus one "hand(finger) applied job by some oldtimer who knew this was just a damn good tool. So figure your varnishthickness from there. Rick from bairdart@burgoyne.com Mon Apr 13 03:12:28 1998 Subject: Senate fly rod To list, I would like to know if anyone has any info on a "Senate" flyrod, 9' three piece, w/ 2 tips. Any help would be appreciated. ThanksBob B. from bairdart@burgoyne.com Mon Apr 13 03:12:29 1998 Subject: Senate fly rod To list, I am trying to find out any information i can about a "Senate"fly rod. Can anyone supply info. Thanks in advance Bob B. from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 13 06:06:15 1998 Subject: RE:Senate fly rod RO>To list, I would like to know if anyone has any info on a "Senate" flyRO>rod, 9' three piece, w/ 2 tips. Any help would be appreciated. ThanksRO>Bob B. Bob, The Sinclair restoration book has a H-I Senate rod listed during the1930's. Spec's are listed as round cane, NPB reelseat, NPB ferrules withrolled welts. Agate stripper and tungsten steel snake guides. Green/goldwraps and broad green bands on butt & mid. Gold intermediates. Cost newwas $12. Sound close? Don Burns from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Apr 13 07:58:32 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks, Jerry Snider No problem. Wish that it had copied better!Jerry Snider.At 11:36 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote: Jerry,Just got the Sci Am photocopy this am. Appreciate it. If I can ever returnthe favor let me know.Art from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Apr 13 08:10:04 1998 (205.236.248.80) Subject: Re: heat treatin Coffey, Patrick W wrote: check out the heat treating at this web side. Their explanation is thesame as what Walton Powell told me (steam rupture). This is a prettyinteresting way of heat treating. http://www.gtii.com/paulyoung/ Patrick Pat,the lumber industry has been kiln drying their product for years. Steamplasticises wood fibers, I cannot imagine fibers getting torn apart.I was once told that Young developed flaming to hide the badly markedcanethey were forced to pick over during the embargo.An interesting site, even though most of it is a crock.Terry from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 13 08:58:06 1998 Subject: RE:RE:Heddon Parts RO>Don,RO>I plan on going up to his daughters house soon to sit down with her andRO>possibly work on an article for The Bamboo Rod magazine. I am surethat sheRO>has many photographs of her dad in his shop and at Heddon. I wish thatIRO>would have kept notes when I was with him but I didn't. All I can go onwitRO>this is what I remember him showing me and I will have to sort outwhat is hRO>and what I learned elsewhere.RO>Bret Bret, Maybe Michael Sinclair could help you with details. He just completedhis Heddon book and must have good notes on Bernie. Try to contact himat Caneclinic@aol.com. Don Burns from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Apr 13 13:15:16 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Swelled butt forms List, I'm making a new set of forms and would like to build ina taper for swelled butts. Do any of you have anysuggestions for dimensions? I'm just guessing, but wouldthink about .150 to .225 over a space of 5 inches. Therehas to be someone with better ideas than a guess.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from bob.kossler@TANDEM.com Mon Apr 13 13:23:24 1998 conn01.mis.tandem.com (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: the big bamboo Finally a first post. I have been following the various threads on thislist for months and now have a question.How do I order my first batch of cane from Andy Royer. The quality ofhis can sounds compelling and would having never purchased, this seems to be as good a reference as it gets.Any information would be helpfull.Thanks in advance,BobBamboo Flyrod Builder WannaBe. -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Thursday, April 09, 1998 5:49 PM Subject: Re: the big bamboo I also have been pleased with the cane Andy has sent. I appreciatethiseven more when I here Terry say similar things. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Terence Ackland Subject: the big bambooDate: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 8:50 PM About 6 weeks ago I received a shipment of 2 bales of cane from myregular supplier which has been getting worse over the years, whichIwas lead to believe was the Chinese adjusting to a free marketeconomy.A. Royer phoned me a couple of weeks ago and suggested I try some ofhisbamboo. the freight from the west coast was about $75 so I decidedthatI should order 4 bales asthe shipping was about the same as for one bale.I received my Royer cane on Friday and got to unwrap 2 bales and Imustadmit that this is the best cane I have ever seen in the 15 years ofrodmaking.I remember a year or so ago when Royer first appeared on the listwith apromise of supplying good bamboo, I made a comment on how can a newkidon the block be in a position to supply unmarked can whenestablishedcompanies cannot. The cane I received is thick, yellow and unmarked. I have some thatmustbe 4in dia, incredible.I feel great, all is not lost, perhaps there is good bamboo outthere.Terry from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Apr 13 15:15:03 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms In a message dated 4/13/98 6:23:36 PM, you wrote: Harry - I have not spent a lot of time on swelled butts, so take this as my$.02, and not much else. First, I would put the swell further up the groovethan the .150 mark. A lot of light line tapers have dimensions less than.300at the end of the action length. My own homemade forms have a swell of about .030. I doubt that even thatmuchswell is necessary to stop the action, my feeling is that anything morethan10% is showing off. BUT, I have nothing against showing off, and considertheextreme butt swells you see on some T&T's or Leonards to be marks ofrodbuilding skill. Before I attacked my forms any further, however, Iwouldmake a 60 degree groove in a board with my router table and plane someteststrips to see if I was going to run into any problems. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Apr 13 15:52:43 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 13Apr 1998 16:54:05 -0400 Subject: Ferrule Producers I was wondering who manufactures ferrules (in mass quantities). I am not curious who resales them. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 13 17:38:33 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA05867 for; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:42:26 +0100 Subject: Handles I was looking at one of Tom Moran's very nice handles the other day. Itfeatures inset bamboo strips (running fore 'n aft) in an otherwise all corkhandle filler: these to take the pressure from the reel bands, and toprevent the bands from biting into the cork. Does anyone have any advicetooffer on the making and fitting of these two bamboo strips. The corks on the same handle were also nicely shaped (milled/sanded) toaccommodate the reel foot. I've tried to do this on my own cork fillers,but end up tearing the cork. Can anyone offer insight on the best way toachieve the shape. Tom's were very accurate, and very smooth, and clearly(unless he drinks less than me) the result of machine work (maybe a veryhigh speed miller with fine sandpaper insteed of a cutter). Tom spent some time at Thomas and Thomas, but I belive the rod I sawpre- dates that period. John Cooper (England) from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 13 17:38:33 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA05864 for; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:42:24 +0100 Subject: Stoner fluting Is anyone milling semi-hollow rods with Winston-like fluting for his ownuse (obviously not for sale, which would infringe the patent, and infuriateWinston). I invented this a few years ago, on paper, and was verypissed-off to find that Winston (Stoner) had invented that particularwheellong before me. John Cooper (England) from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Apr 13 17:59:27 1998 (205.236.249.185) Subject: Re: the big bamboo Try royera@sprynet.comKossler, Bob wrote: Finally a first post. I have been following the various threads on thislist for months and now have a question.How do I order my first batch of cane from Andy Royer. The quality ofhis can sounds compelling and wouldhaving never purchased, this seems to be as good a reference as it gets.Any information would be helpfull.Thanks in advance,BobBamboo Flyrod Builder WannaBe. -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Thursday, April 09, 1998 5:49 PM Subject: Re: the big bamboo I also have been pleased with the cane Andy has sent. I appreciatethiseven more when I here Terry say similar things. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Terence Ackland Subject: the big bambooDate: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 8:50 PM About 6 weeks ago I received a shipment of 2 bales of cane from myregular supplier which has been getting worse over the years, whichIwas lead to believe was the Chinese adjusting to a free marketeconomy.A. Royer phoned me a couple of weeks ago and suggested I try some ofhisbamboo. the freight from the west coast was about $75 so I decidedthatI should order 4 bales asthe shipping was about the same as for one bale.I received my Royer cane on Friday and got to unwrap 2 bales and Imustadmit that this is the best cane I have ever seen in the 15 years ofrodmaking.I remember a year or so ago when Royer first appeared on the listwith apromise of supplying good bamboo, I made a comment on how can anewkidon the block be in a position to supply unmarked can whenestablishedcompanies cannot. The cane I received is thick, yellow and unmarked. I have some thatmustbe 4in dia, incredible.I feel great, all is not lost, perhaps there is good bamboo outthere.Terry from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Apr 13 18:08:55 1998 Subject: Re: Handles/cork reelseats I've considered having a grinding stone cut to do just that. I can't find ahooded sliding band seat a la Garrison on the market. My guru HomerJenningswho worked with Moran while in the U.K. once mentioned seeing a routerbittool with a dozen or more blades. But I don't remember if it was in Moran'sshop. Next time I talk to him, I'll mention it... Rob from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Apr 13 18:11:01 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 13Apr 1998 19:12:30 -0400 Subject: Quick Survey if You Have Time? I hope some of you will take the time to respond to this short survey. A buddy of mine and I are in a consumer behavior class in which we have to write a paper on a product and target market. Since there is no public primary research available, I thought I might do some of my own with the help of you all. Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond. I. What motivates consumers to purchase a bamboo fly fishing rod? ie: Function, Aesthetic,Social,and Situational II. What are the attitudes or perceptions associated with individuals fly- fishing with bamboo? III. How are individuals purchasing bamboo fly fishing rods?ie: Shows, Retail Stores, Magazines IV. Who is competing for the bamboo rod demand? V. Where do you look to purchase when you are interested in buying an item related to fly-fishing, Do you prefer the large retailers such as Orvis or do you look to smaller morespecialized outfits. VI. Advantages/Disadvantages of a bamboo rod from Orvis (or anyone similar) versus an independent maker such as yourself? VII. Describe a typical first time bamboo rod purchaserie: Income Level, Social Class, Occupation, Age, Urban/Rural, Lifestyles, Brand Loyalty, Price Sensitivity.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Apr 13 18:12:14 1998 (205.236.249.185) Subject: Re: Stoner fluting A patent provides protection for 17 years from the date of being grantedin theUS. So you can whistle and flute as much as you like.Cooper wrote: Is anyone milling semi-hollow rods with Winston-like fluting for hisownuse (obviously not for sale, which would infringe the patent, andinfuriateWinston). I invented this a few years ago, on paper, and was verypissed-off to find that Winston (Stoner) had invented that particularwheellong before me. John Cooper (England) from RVenneri@aol.com Mon Apr 13 18:51:44 1998 Subject: Re: Handles/cork reelseats Rob,I have not made a hooded seat as of yet but am willing to try. Why don'tyousend me a drawing or a sample set and I will see what I can do.Bob V Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from bairdart@burgoyne.com Mon Apr 13 19:31:50 1998 Subject: Re: Senate fly rod Don, Your description is right on the mark. Thank you for the reply. Bob B. flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>To list, I would like to know if anyone has any info on a "Senate" flyRO>rod, 9' three piece, w/ 2 tips. Any help would be appreciated. ThanksRO>Bob B. Bob, The Sinclair restoration book has a H-I Senate rod listed during the1930's. Spec's are listed as round cane, NPB reelseat, NPB ferrules withrolled welts. Agate stripper and tungsten steel snake guides. Green/goldwraps and broad green bands on butt & mid. Gold intermediates. Cost newwas $12. Sound close? Don Burns from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 13 20:06:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A6D318500C2; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:07:31 MDT Subject: Re: Handles At 08:23 PM 4/13/98 +0100, you wrote: I was looking at one of Tom Moran's very nice handles the other day. Itfeatures inset bamboo strips (running fore 'n aft) in an otherwise all corkhandle filler: these to take the pressure from the reel bands, and toprevent the bands from biting into the cork. Does anyone have any advicetooffer on the making and fitting of these two bamboo strips. The corks on the same handle were also nicely shaped (milled/sanded) toaccommodate the reel foot. I've tried to do this on my own cork fillers,but end up tearing the cork. Can anyone offer insight on the best way toachieve the shape. Tom's were very accurate, and very smooth, andclearly(unless he drinks less than me) the result of machine work (maybe a veryhigh speed miller with fine sandpaper insteed of a cutter). Tom spent some time at Thomas and Thomas, but I belive the rod I sawpre- dates that period. John Cooper (England) John;I just finished shaping a cork grip yesterday and I started out with theSupr-sander that Jerry mentioned( look in the tools list in Rodmakers) Iwent thru the three grits you get with it and they rough shaped the cofkvery quickly, then I followed up with sandpaper down to 400 grit. I useemery cloth in medium and fine first as they seem to last longer, then goto 220 and 400. Sanding belts for a belt sander work well,too. I've triedrasps and they work o.k., but anything like a woodturning chisel will justblow your cork apart. My .02.John Channer from anglport@con2.com Mon Apr 13 20:11:35 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25147 for Subject: Re: Ferrule Producers Jon,I used to deal directly with Rodon in Newark (NJ) and Ron (I think it wasBensley) then sold the business to Cortland (up by you). If they don't MAKEthem they must have farmed the job out. BTW, Rodon's Super-z males wereINCREDIBLY oversized. I can't TELL you how long I spent reducing theirdiameter to fit their females. I would buy ANYBODY's that were closer tospec if they were quality ferrules. Art At 04:52 PM 4/13/98 +0000, you wrote:I was wondering who manufactures ferrules (in mass quantities). I am not curious who resales them. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance. from anglport@con2.com Mon Apr 13 20:30:34 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA26843 for Subject: Re: Handles Jon,Just saw one of his lovely rods this week for the first time. If it's anyconsolation, there are now two of us who can't figure how he does that!I'vebeen mulling it over for about 2 or 3 days; if I experience an epiphany I'llget back to you. Anyone else?Art At 08:23 PM 4/13/98 +0100, you wrote: I was looking at one of Tom Moran's very nice handles the other day. Itfeatures inset bamboo strips (running fore 'n aft) in an otherwise all corkhandle filler: John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 13 21:57:35 1998 Subject: RE:Re: Senate fly rod RO>Don, Your description is right on the mark. Thank you for the reply. BobB. Bob, Not mine, Michael Sinclair's - from his "Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbook". Also, sounds like the quality of one of my dad's old Montague Sunbeams.They didn't even bother to plane/sand the cane's enamel away - hence the"round" cane. Don B. from FLYROD777@aol.com Mon Apr 13 22:47:29 1998 Subject: Montague Rod Info Needed Need help. Picked up a Montague Fly rod to restore for a customer tonight.It is a 1940 version of the"Flash". It is 9' and in good shape. Does anyoneknow what type of glue they used than and opinions as to fish it or not. Oneferrule will need replacement on the butt section. Yellow brass cracked. Canthese ferrules still be purchased? Origional price was $6.25 and my bestguess is was in the medium to low range. Any suggestions, ideasopinions? Mark Hallowell847-688-1330 from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 13 23:06:24 1998 Subject: Re: Stoner fluting In a message dated 4/13/98 3:46:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jcooper@interalpha.co.uk writes: Is anyone milling semi-hollow rods with Winston-like fluting for hisownuse (obviously not for sale, which would infringe the patent, andinfuriateWinston). The patent was from 1951, and all rights have long since expired. Whichmeans you can make the fluted rods for sale legally. I talked to a patentlawyer about this - No, I wasn't thinking of selling fluted rods, I wastryingto locate the patent and the subject of me making them legally came up.In fact, if the patent is current, you cannot even make them just for yourself without paying the patent holder for the privilege of doing so. Darryl Hayashida from SBDunn@aol.com Tue Apr 14 00:25:31 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order Me too. from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 14 00:29:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4738600C8; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:30:27 MDT Subject: Re: Montague Rod Info Needed At 11:46 PM 4/13/98 EDT, you wrote:Need help. Picked up a Montague Fly rod to restore for a customertonight.It is a 1940 version of the"Flash". It is 9' and in good shape. Does anyoneknow what type of glue they used than and opinions as to fish it or not. Oneferrule will need replacement on the butt section. Yellow brass cracked.Canthese ferrules still be purchased? Origional price was $6.25 and my bestguess is was in the medium to low range. Any suggestions, ideasopinions? Mark Hallowell847-688-1330 Mark;The biggest favor you can do yourself is to get a copy of MichaelSinclair's " Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook", it is a must have foranyonerestoring/refinishing production rods.I doubt that you will be able to findany original brass ferrules any more, but Anglers Workshop sells chromeplated brass ones cheap, replace both of them.If you can't see any purpleglue lines from recorinol glue then it is probably glued withurea-formaldehyde(Urac or Casco Resin glue)Unfortuneatly, it will cost yourcustomer more to have this rod refinished, even if you don't replace theferrules, than it is worth, even if he could sell it, a refinished Flash ismaybe worth $100. 9' production rods are not worth much these days andmostof the dealers won't even take them.Another.02 fromJohn Channer from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 14 01:33:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3902020136; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:34:56 MDT Subject: taper suggestion Guys;I hope this doesn't sound like a complaint, because it isn't, I reallyappreciate the tapers that have been posted on the list, they are veryinformative, but I would like to suggest that when an old rod is measuredthat the measurements be taken with the rod assembled and starting atthetip. There have been some tapers posted with the numbers going from thebutt forward and some starting over at each ferrule and I am never sure ifI am getting them right when I enter them into Hexrod.I am sure this willmake things a little easier for everyone. Thanks again to all those thathave gone to the trouble to post tapers.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 14 06:37:27 1998 Subject: RE:Montague Rod Info Needed RO>Need help. Picked up a Montague Fly rod to restore for a customertonight.RO>It is a 1940 version of the"Flash". It is 9' and in good shape. DoesanyonRO>know what type of glue they used than and opinions as to fish it or not. OnRO>ferrule will need replacement on the butt section. Yellow brasscracked. CRO>these ferrules still be purchased? Origional price was $6.25 and mybestRO>guess is was in the medium to low range. Any suggestions, ideasopinions? RO>Mark HallowellRO>847-688-1330 Mark, I've seen some late-era (1950's?) Montagues with purple glue lines(resorcinol glue), but most of the earlier rods must've used hide glue.I'd repair a delamination in a Montague with Titebond II glue. As tofishing with a Montague - there's a few good ones and there's some#%$#@%$#%$#. The only way to get a new ferrule that exactly matches the Montague'sstyle would be to steal one off a junker rod. Finding a undamagedferrule will be hard, most of them seem to have cracks. You might wantto epoxy the old one on and overwrap it with thread. If you do all theferrules it won't look bad. If you want a cheap replacement ferrule, the Ni-plated brass ferrules onthe market are of a different shape and you'll find that you'll need tobuild up the male ferrule's cane with some thread. Not a good solution,IMHO. I've been looking for a source of Montague ferrules and have never foundone. Don Burns from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Apr 14 06:45:02 1998 Subject: RE: Stoner fluting John,I'm not sure but I think his patent has expired.So flute away! -----Original Message-----From: Cooper [SMTP:jcooper@interalpha.co.uk]Sent: Monday, April 13, 1998 2:21 PM Subject: Stoner fluting Is anyone milling semi-hollow rods with Winston-like fluting for hisownuse (obviously not for sale, which would infringe the patent, andinfuriateWinston). I invented this a few years ago, on paper, and was verypissed-off to find that Winston (Stoner) had invented that particularwheellong before me. John Cooper (England) from bairdart@burgoyne.com Tue Apr 14 07:55:57 1998 Subject: Re: Senate fly rod Don, The Senate I have is very well built. The round comes from beingmilled, not leaving the enamel intact. All of the nickle silver appts. arevery well done. Some even have some engraving. As for the overall quality,Iwould say it is a far cry from the many H-I's that i have ever seen andworked on. Bob B. flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>To list, I would like to know if anyone has any info on a "Senate" flyRO>rod, 9' three piece, w/ 2 tips. Any help would be appreciated. ThanksRO>Bob B. Bob, The Sinclair restoration book has a H-I Senate rod listed during the1930's. Spec's are listed as round cane, NPB reelseat, NPB ferrules withrolled welts. Agate stripper and tungsten steel snake guides. Green/goldwraps and broad green bands on butt & mid. Gold intermediates. Cost newwas $12. Sound close? Don Burns from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 08:57:30 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Swelled butt forms Tom and Harry,Is it possible to reposition the strip into the deeper part of theform and derive a swelled butt that way? Or ,if there's no more room ontheform do the strips up to the swell and reset the forms? It would be alittletricky at first but I bet it could be done. Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 08:57:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit John,This farm boy lost 5 in a corn picker some years ago so I take my shoesoffif I need to count above 6(5+ the paw). I'm considering a lathe - shouldtakecare of the other 5. I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ride horsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass. IguessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman. from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 14 09:27:45 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit At 09:56 AM 4/14/98 EDT, you wrote:John,This farm boy lost 5 in a corn picker some years ago so I take my shoesoffif I need to count above 6(5+ the paw). I'm considering a lathe - shouldtakecare of the other 5. I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ridehorsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass. IguessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman. Wow! I'm only missing the end of one (joiner) and boogered up another(table saw). Feeling lucky I can still count to twenty-one.Gary from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 09:33:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Ferrule Producers Jon,Try Bailey Woods'. His address has changed and you'll have to get it offthe rodmakers web page.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 09:33:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Montague Rod Info Needed Mark,I have to agree with John-also, back in '48 I bought a couple ofMontagues(Rapidans, I think) and 20 years later I let my niece use 'em andthey both snapped above the ferrule. This may have been due to poor careon mypart but I thought I'd caution you for what it's worth.Regards,Hank. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 14 09:40:47 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Senate fly rod RO>Don, The Senate I have is very well built. The round comes from beingRO>milled, not leaving the enamel intact. All of the nickle silver appts. areRO>very well done. Some even have some engraving. As for the overallquality, IRO>would say it is a far cry from the many H-I's that i have ever seen andRO>worked on. Bob B. Bob, Good to hear. I don't know if you've got NS ferrules - for your sake I hope so. Butsome of the H-I rods had workable plated ferrules, much thicker brassthan the paper- thin brass on many Montague rods. Don from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Apr 14 09:50:42 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit FISHWOOL wrote:I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ride horsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass.I guessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman.Hank,As long as you don't have your life defiled by anything as insipid as"meaningful employment", I'd say you're one of the winners.A few of us were standing on the porch of the Clubhouse one night ofthe last Grayling get-together, and the talk turned to getting out ofthe rat-race. (I don't know if you've noticed, but the rat is gettingfaster and smarter these days.) Anyway, it was interesting to note thatnot only do these people all share a love of cane rods, but they allhave well formulated escape plans. I'm not clever enough by half to haveplanned the way they had, but I won't drop in the harness, either. I'mgoin' over the wall...Reed from anglport@con2.com Tue Apr 14 10:22:43 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23890 for Subject: Re: Router bit Hank,I had a real eye-opener a few years back. I had always assumed that thosetypes of errors were made by idiots (myself included--I almost took afingeroff in a printing press when in college), until a friend of mine, the mostcareful man I ever knew, took most of 4 fingers off in a table saw he hadused successfully for over 40 years! My first thought was; It really CANhappen to anyone.Be well,Art ps: You're absolutely right about that lathe. I've heard all sorts of storesabout how you can tell machnists by their lack of a right index-finger- tipdue to flicking a bit off a turning piece of work. At 09:56 AM 4/14/98 EDT, you wrote:John,This farm boy lost 5 in a corn picker some years ago so I take my shoesoffif I need to count above 6(5+ the paw). I'm considering a lathe - shouldtakecare of the other 5. I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ride horsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass. IguessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman. from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Tue Apr 14 10:23:37 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Tue, 14 Apr 98 11:23:04 EDT Subject: hollow-built rods A (perhaps) elementary question: How does one prevent the fluting of a hollow-built rod from fillingup with glue? (Which, I would submit, adds mass and therefore inertiawithout significantly increasing he modulus of elasticity necessary toovercome the additional mass.)Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 14 10:30:22 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms Hank - It might be possible to play around with the forms as you suggest,butwhere you have a steep taper in a short distance, it wouldn't take much ofanerror to give you an open glue seam. Most, if not all of the rods withextremebutt swells I have seen have been made with a machine, and that is why Iadvised Harry to proceed with a bit of caution. It is a topic that interestsme, however, and one of these days I am going to do some experimentation. from dhaftel@att.com Tue Apr 14 10:30:38 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 11:30:27-0400 Subject: RE: Router bit/rat race 4.0.995.52 Reed, This rat is stuck deep in the maze, no cheese in sight!!! I'd like tohear some of those plans! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Reed F. Curry [SMTP:rcurry@top.monad.net]Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 10:52 AM Subject: Re: Router bit FISHWOOL wrote:I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ride horsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass.IguessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman.Hank,As long as you don't have your life defiled by anything as insipid as"meaningful employment", I'd say you're one of the winners.A few of us were standing on the porch of the Clubhouse one night ofthe last Grayling get-together, and the talk turned to getting out ofthe rat-race. (I don't know if you've noticed, but the rat is gettingfaster and smarter these days.) Anyway, it was interesting to note thatnot only do these people all share a love of cane rods, but they allhave well formulated escape plans. I'm not clever enough by half to haveplanned the way they had, but I won't drop in the harness, either. I'mgoin' over the wall...Reed from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 14 10:42:29 1998 Subject: Re: hollow-built rods In a message dated 4/14/98 3:28:31 PM, you wrote: Mark, This is anything but an elementary question. Take a look at thearticleon Powell in issue #1 of the Bamboo Rod. Look closely at the picture of thesemi-hollow cross section. It is fuzzy, but it looks to me like the cavityis1/4 filled with glue. Chris Bogart taught me a technique of using Epon epoxy, an scrubbing thestrips with a toothbrush to remove most of the glue. We glued up such arodwith great success. A test piece we glued and then split showed noencroachment into the cavity from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 14 11:18:57 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms In a message dated 4/13/98 11:22:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.com writes: I'm making a new set of forms and would like to build ina taper for swelled butts. Do any of you have anysuggestions for dimensions? I'm just guessing, but wouldthink about .150 to .225 over a space of 5 inches. Therehas to be someone with better ideas than a guess. I took a look at my Colorado Bootstrap forms last night. It hasa short section near one end with set screws 2 1/2 inchesapart instead of 5 inches so that you can do a swelled butt.It won't go from .150 to .225 in 5 inches. I was able to make it go from .150 to .210, and I possibly could make it swell more, but I don't do swelled butts and I didn't want to permanently tweak my forms. There was another interesting way to swell a butt that I saw. Instead of extra bamboo in the swell, it had rosewood inserts between the splines. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 14 11:24:24 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit/rat race In a message dated 4/14/98 8:35:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,dhaftel@att.comwrites: This rat is stuck deep in the maze, no cheese in sight!!! I'd like tohear some of those plans! "The only thing about being in the rat race is that if you win,all you proven is that your a bigger rat than everyone else." Can't remember who originally said it, but the quote sticks in my memory. Darryl from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Tue Apr 14 11:25:37 1998 11:25:32-0500 11:25:31-0500 11:25:30-0500 Subject: RE:Heddon Parts Hello Bret.Thank you very much for the information about Leon.I will try tonight to contact him. Again, thank you.Sincerly,Jon Poling At 04:55 AM 4/11/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Jon,RO>There was a gentleman named Bernard Hills that had bought up all ofHeddonsRO>stuff when he was working for Heddon and he had a lot of that kind ofstuff.RO>Unfortunately Bernard passed away a few years ago and Leon Hansonbought allRO>the stuff that Bernard had. Leon lives in Plymouth Michigan and I usedtoRO>have his phone # but I can't find it anymore. I am sure if you callRO>information at either 248-555- 1212 or 313-555-1212 you could gethis#. IRO>not sure of the prefix as they have changed them around as of late. IfyouRO>don't find Leons # let me know and I will ask my brother to get it foryou aRO>he lives close to him. Or possibly Wayne or Ron Barch has it.RO>Bret Bernard Hills was Heddon's last head rodmaker. I too would be interested in that phone #. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com orcanerods@aol.com from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Tue Apr 14 11:32:43 1998 (METDST) Subject: Warning - Bad preserver Hi european rodmakers! Warning - i think the color preserver from "Elettra-Sport" (Italy) KK 1is (sorry) really sh....!I (try) use it two or tree times, but it never works fine. It`s tothick,like a soup. I tried it with acetone as thinner, but it worked only forseveral minutes - then it was thicker than before! Regards Stefan from thramer@presys.com Tue Apr 14 11:40:57 1998 0000 Subject: Montague Ferrules I ran into the Montague ferrule problem 8-10 yrs ago. It was animportant rod for the family so I machined a set out of nickel silverbar stock. The ferrules were designed to be easily made with tube anddrawing, they were quite intricate to reproduce. And expensive.A.J.Thramer from bdavid@umich.edu Tue Apr 14 11:45:46 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:45:44 -0400 Subject: Re: RE:Heddon Parts LAA11523 John, Here is Leon's Number Leon F Hanson Phone : 313-459-2993 Our area code has since changed to 734... But i think that 313 may stillwork.. Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------David A. BerrieOracle Programmer/DBAUniversity of Michigan Medical CenterAnn Arbor, MI 48109-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jon Poling 04/14 1:25 PM >>>Hello Bret.Thank you very much for the information about Leon.I will try tonight to contact him. Again, thank you.Sincerly,Jon Poling At 04:55 AM 4/11/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Jon,RO>There was a gentleman named Bernard Hills that had bought up all ofHeddonsRO>stuff when he was working for Heddon and he had a lot of that kind ofstuff.RO>Unfortunately Bernard passed away a few years ago and Leon Hansonbought allRO>the stuff that Bernard had. Leon lives in Plymouth Michigan and I usedtoRO>have his phone # but I can't find it anymore. I am sure if you callRO>information at either 248-555- 1212 or 313-555-1212 you could gethis#. IRO>not sure of the prefix as they have changed them around as of late. IfyouRO>don't find Leons # let me know and I will ask my brother to get it foryou aRO>he lives close to him. Or possibly Wayne or Ron Barch has it.RO>Bret Bernard Hills was Heddon's last head rodmaker. I too would be interested in that phone #. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com orcanerods@aol.com from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Tue Apr 14 12:40:37 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Anglers Workshop Does anyone have a current URL or a phone number for Anglers Workshop. Thanks Mick from anglport@con2.com Tue Apr 14 13:11:01 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07155 for Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop Mick,www.anglersworkshop.com siteinfo@anglersworkshop.com e- mail360-225-9445 for orders360-225-6359 cust. serv.These are from '97 catalog. Hope you weren't asking 'cause you tried themand they're dead!Use 'em in good health!Art At 10:05 AM 4/14/98 -0800, you wrote: Does anyone have a current URL or a phone number for Anglers Workshop. Thanks Mick from saweiss@flash.net Tue Apr 14 13:39:05 1998 Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop ----Original Message----- Subject: Anglers Workshop Does anyone have a current URL or a phone number for Anglers Workshop. Mick,I recently got their March catalog.http://www.anglersworkshop.comtel: 1(360)225-6359 Steve from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 14 14:29:05 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit/rat race In a message dated 4/14/98 9:25:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,SalarFly@aol.comwrites: "The only thing about being in the rat race is that if you win,all you proven is that your a bigger rat than everyone else." That's what I get for rushing and not reading what I wrote. I shouldhave written: "The only thing about being in the rat race is that if you win,all you've proven is that you're a bigger rat than everyone else."^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^I need a proper usage checker along with a spell checker. Darryl from fer@surfplanet.com Tue Apr 14 15:41:12 1998 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA14774 for; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:42:58 GMT Subject: Re: Warning - Bad preserver gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: Hi european rodmakers! Warning - i think the color preserver from "Elettra-Sport" (Italy) KK 1is (sorry) really sh....!I (try) use it two or tree times, but it never works fine. It`s tothick,like a soup. I tried it with acetone as thinner, but it worked only forseveral minutes - then it was thicker than before! Regards Stefan Thanks Stefan, this is Fernando Rada from Spain. It's funny, do you knowwhat KK means in spanish?Regards. from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Tue Apr 14 15:57:33 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re[2]: Anglers Workshop --simple boundary Thanks all.My catalog seems to have disappeared. As you might guess my wife won't"fessup". Maybe I should consider making the credit card bill disappear too. Mick ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Re: Anglers WorkshopAuthor: ----Original Message----- Subject: Anglers Workshop Does anyone have a current URL or a phone number for Anglers Workshop. Mick,I recently got their March catalog.http://www.anglersworkshop.comtel: 1(360)225-6359 Steve --simple boundary (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Mon, 13 Apr 98 23:44:25 -0800 intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id LAA23634 for Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop --simple boundary-- from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Tue Apr 14 16:18:41 1998 16:18:38-0500 16:18:37-0500 16:18:37-0500 Subject: RE:Heddon Parts Thank you very much, Dave!Jon Poling At 12:45 PM 4/14/98 -0400, you wrote:John, Here is Leon's Number Leon F Hanson Phone : 313-459-2993 Our area code has since changed to 734... But i think that 313 may stillwork.. Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------David A. BerrieOracle Programmer/DBAUniversity of Michigan Medical CenterAnn Arbor, MI 48109-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jon Poling 04/14 1:25 PM >>>Hello Bret.Thank you very much for the information about Leon.I will try tonight to contact him. Again, thank you.Sincerly,Jon Poling At 04:55 AM 4/11/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Jon,RO>There was a gentleman named Bernard Hills that had bought up all ofHeddonsRO>stuff when he was working for Heddon and he had a lot of that kind ofstuff.RO>Unfortunately Bernard passed away a few years ago and Leon Hansonbought allRO>the stuff that Bernard had. Leon lives in Plymouth Michigan and Iused toRO>have his phone # but I can't find it anymore. I am sure if you callRO>information at either 248-555- 1212 or 313-555-1212 you couldget his#. IRO>not sure of the prefix as they have changed them around as of late. IfyouRO>don't find Leons # let me know and I will ask my brother to get it foryou aRO>he lives close to him. Or possibly Wayne or Ron Barch has it.RO>Bret Bernard Hills was Heddon's last head rodmaker. I too would be interested in that phone #. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com orcanerods@aol.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 14 18:40:07 1998 Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:38:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, TSmithwick wrote: Hank - It might be possible to play around with the forms as you suggest,butwhere you have a steep taper in a short distance, it wouldn't take muchof anerror to give you an open glue seam. Most, if not all of the rods withextremebutt swells I have seen have been made with a machine, and that is why Iadvised Harry to proceed with a bit of caution. It is a topic thatinterestsme, however, and one of these days I am going to do someexperimentation. The last rod I made I swelled the butt just by winding out my wooden form untill I got the right taper. I had to make a fine adjustment to the form involving adding an extra 2 adjustment screws between the normal ones at 5" centres but that's the nice thing about making them myself.Worked fine and there are no gaps as a result. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 14 18:45:44 1998 199819:45:40 -0400 Subject: Re: hollow-built rods Mark That question was answered at Roscoe by Tom Smithwick doing a joint demo of hollowing and gluing and then split the test section open.If you do it right - it does not fill up. Also Per Brandon has a similarsection he cut open that he displays. Chris A (perhaps) elementary question: How does one prevent the fluting of a hollow-built rod from fillingup with glue? (Which, I would submit, adds mass and therefore inertiawithout significantly increasing he modulus of elasticity necessary toovercome the additional mass.)Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from bairdart@burgoyne.com Tue Apr 14 18:49:21 1998 Subject: Re: Senate fly rod Don, The ferrules, wind check and the reel seat, are all NS. Like I said itsnotlike any H-I that i have ever seen. Bob B. flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Don, The Senate I have is very well built. The round comes frombeingRO>milled, not leaving the enamel intact. All of the nickle silver appts.areRO>very well done. Some even have some engraving. As for the overallquality,IRO>would say it is a far cry from the many H-I's that i have ever seenandRO>worked on. Bob B. Bob, Good to hear. I don't know if you've got NS ferrules - for your sake I hope so. Butsome of the H-I rods had workable plated ferrules, much thicker brassthan the paper- thin brass on many Montague rods. Don from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 19:06:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit Reed,I'm not sure I'm out of the rat race. Marcia and I are running 5 4session fly fishing schools this month and guiding in between. I think wehave2 days in the month not spoken for. I'm not complaining 'cause that's whatwedo. It helps to keep the wolf from the door.May's just as bad but June gets better- TTBBQ!Regards,Hank.P.S. Hope we'll see you at Greyrock. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 19:07:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Anglers Workshop Mick and Art,I used 'em this morning and they worked-I just got the '98 cataloguewiththe same numbers.Hank. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Apr 14 19:29:57 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms Tom, Hank, Tony, and others -- Thanks for the help!Harry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 14 19:32:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Warning - Bad preserver Fernando,Watch your mouth. KK from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 14 19:32:54 1998 Subject: Re: Senate fly rod RO>Don, The ferrules, wind check and the reel seat, are all NS. Like I saiditsRO>like any H-I that i have ever seen. Bob B. What the heck - must of slipped out the back door? I've got a '20's or early '30's 7'-something H-I (3/1) that's aninteresting rod too. Quality isn't as good as yours, but how many 7'4" -7'6" three piece rods did H-I make? The 3 rod sections all differ by +/-1/4" and so I know mine's got normal H-I quality built-in. Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 14 19:34:08 1998 Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop RO>Mick and Art,RO> I used 'em this morning and they worked-I just got the '98 cataloguewitRO>the same numbers.RO> Hank. Am I the last one without the '98 catalog? Don B. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 14 19:43:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit/rat race One suggestion I can make to you guys is don't open a fly shop and thinkthisis a dream come true as it will surely turn into a nightmare. I tried itbecause I wanted to get out of construction and own a fly shop boy what amessthat business turned out to be.Bret from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Apr 14 21:10:48 1998 Subject: Montague Rod Help Just want to say thanks to all that helped me. It will help me in myrecommendation. Mark Hallowell from richjez@enteract.com Tue Apr 14 22:07:06 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Router bit Talking about the TBBQ, when is it. I bug ate my hard drive last week andthe drive had to be reformatted to save it. All was lost. If somone lets me know whne it is, I will make it again. Rich Jezioro At 08:06 PM 4/14/98 EDT, you wrote:Reed,I'm not sure I'm out of the rat race. Marcia and I are running 5 4session fly fishing schools this month and guiding in between. I think wehave2 days in the month not spoken for. I'm not complaining 'cause that's whatwedo. It helps to keep the wolf from the door.May's just as bad but June gets better- TTBBQ!Regards,Hank.P.S. Hope we'll see you at Greyrock. from richjez@enteract.com Tue Apr 14 22:07:13 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Quick Survey if You Have Time? 1. My first fly rod was a telescoping metal one. My mother got me a heddon from a garage sale. It was a major improvement. I bought a fenwickgraphiteand is was nice but the bamboo has a much more sensitive feel. I fish forrelaxation and there are podns with bluegills that are nearby. Withbamboo,I can feel thier fins working. No so with graphite or my metal one. 2 I am not sure if you are asking my perception ot that of others. Formyself. I have tried a number of rods at grayrock and discovered the rengeof differences that can be made into a bamboo rod. I like that I can make arod to suit my tastes and situation. As for others precptions, they seem to see bamboo as quaint but old. New,even the hexagraphite is good and cool. 3. Since I cannot affore new ones, garage sales, flea markets, and auctionsare my sources. I bought one at a gun show too. 4. I am not sure what you are asking. If it is what other materials carcompeting with bamboo, the large manfuactures have the advertizingmoney consumer who is taught and believes newer, bigger, faster, is better. 5. I avoid the big name houses when possible. Use smaller places like likelocal stores of mail order like anglers workshop. 6.The flexability of the indenpendent maker is an advantage. Orvis couldprice a rod lower and still make money buit they have the name and yuppiedollars so as PT Barnum said, There is....... 7. You got me here. I haven't sold rods and am the only one of my friendswho like bambee, so I don't know. Rich Jezioro At 07:10 PM 4/13/98 +0000, you wrote:I hope some of you will take the time to respond to this short survey. A buddy of mine and I are in a consumer behavior class in which we have to write a paper on a product and target market. Since there is no public primary research available, I thought I might do some of my own with the help of you all. Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond. I. What motivates consumers to purchase a bamboo fly fishing rod? ie: Function, Aesthetic,Social,and Situational II. What are the attitudes or perceptions associated with individuals fly- fishing with bamboo? III. How are individuals purchasing bamboo fly fishing rods?ie: Shows, Retail Stores, Magazines IV. Who is competing for the bamboo rod demand? V. Where do you look to purchase when you are interested in buying an item related to fly-fishing, Do you prefer the large retailers such as Orvis or do you look to smaller morespecialized outfits. VI. Advantages/Disadvantages of a bamboo rod from Orvis (or anyone similar) versus an independent maker such as yourself? VII. Describe a typical first time bamboo rod purchaserie: Income Level, Social Class, Occupation, Age, Urban/Rural, Lifestyles, Brand Loyalty, Price Sensitivity.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Apr 15 00:29:56 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms In a message dated 98-04-14 12:25:03 EDT, you write: Darryl Is this the guy who carries those rosewood splines all the way back to thereel seat? Goes to a lot of shows? Interesting. Davy from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 15 08:06:41 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25598 for Subject: Re:Mystery rod pix Bret,Did you ever get those pictures? I sent them last Weds. If they promptmorequestions, fire away.Art from bairdart@burgoyne.com Wed Apr 15 09:46:17 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms Darryl and Davy, In my rod collection i have several rods built by George A.Burtis. His rods have the most exaggerated swelled butt section i haveeverseen. He would use mahogany inserts, presumably to cut the extra weight.Theyare very striking in appearance. If you ever see one you will never confuseitwith any other makers rods. Bob B. Ragnarig wrote: In a message dated 98-04-14 12:25:03 EDT, you write: Instead of extra bamboo in the swell, it had rosewood insertsbetween the splines. Darryl Is this the guy who carries those rosewood splines all the way back tothereel seat? Goes to a lot of shows? Interesting. Davy for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:45:54 Subject: Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! Jerry,I believe it's time you started a weekly plug for your web site. Itcouldbe of great help to many. http://home1.gte.net/foster/index.htmGary At 09:21 AM 4/16/98 -0400, you wrote:I would appreciate anyone providing an address to reach Andy Royer. Thanks, Seymour Birnbaum SalarFly wrote: Last year I bought a bundle of cane from Andy Royerthat I didn't think was top quality. The appearancewas great, but the power fiber layer was thin. I wrotein to this list giving my opinion back then. I just got a few culms of his latest shipment, andthey are excellent! They are about 3" at the base,and all of them are still at least 2 1/4" at the topof the culm. And power fiber like you wouldn't believe!Most of the culms have at least 1/4 of an inch thickpower fiber at the base (13/32" total wall thickness)and the power fibers are still 1/8 of an inch (7/32"wall thickness) at the top of the culm. I could tellright away these culms were loaded with power fiber from the heft when I first picked them up. Appearanceis excellent also, light straw colored, with only a fewwater marks, and no leaf scars. There is a little moldat the ends of a couple of the culms, but it is minor. I highly reccommend Andy Royer's latest batch ofcane, and I am going to order some more to putaway to season. Let's hope he will be able tocontinue to supply Tonkin Cane like this inthe future. Good job Andy! Darryl Hayashida from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Apr 16 08:50:27 1998 Subject: Guide spacing for "Sir Darryl" special I wasn't able to find guide spacing for the "Sir Darryl" special in thearchives. Would someone be willing to provide it? Thanks in advance.Jerry Snider from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 16 08:53:22 1998 Subject: error See I can't even get it right!http://1.gtenet/jfoster/index.htmGary from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 16 08:58:53 1998 Subject: Re: error At 09:55 AM 4/16/98 -0400, you wrote:See I can't even get it right!http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmGary I give up!!! from jfoster@gte.net Thu Apr 16 09:09:24 1998 Subject: Re: error Garyhttp://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 16 09:35:00 1998 Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:33:52 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Recycled Shavings On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, C.J. Wohlford wrote: This might seem like a strange question but has anyone used theirshavings for mulch or compost in their garden? Have a ton of shavings(figuratively speaking of course) and was thinking of putting it to gooduse. Does it break down quickly or does it take some time? Will morethan likely give it a try but any insight would be appreciated. Thanksin advance. Chris Wohlford The shavings make great compost. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 10:15:59 1998 Subject: Re: Guide spacing for "Sir Darryl" special In a message dated 4/16/98 6:56:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: I wasn't able to find guide spacing for the "Sir Darryl" special in thearchives. Would someone be willing to provide it? Thanks in advance. I use the guide program that comes with Wayne's book. If you don't haveit let me know, and I'll run it for you. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 10:19:24 1998 Subject: Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! In a message dated 4/16/98 6:50:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,destinycon@mindspring.com writes: Jerry,I believe it's time you started a weekly plug for your web site. Itcouldbe of great help to many. Good idea since we are getting so many new members. Perhaps MikeBiondo should put it in the "welcome to the list" message everyone getswhen they subscribe. Darryl from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Apr 16 10:48:15 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 16Apr 1998 11:49:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Finish - for Bamboo Rods I use the same varnish I dip in. The stuff is thinner than any epoxy I have ever used. Also, varnish goes tack free is a shorter period of time in my experience. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Apr 16 10:55:52 1998 (4.1/SMI-4.0); Thu, 16 Apr 98 09:39:59 CDT Subject: Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! Darryl sayeth... Good idea since we are getting so many new members. Perhaps MikeBiondo should put it in the "welcome to the list" message everyone getswhen they subscribe. That has been on my to-do list for...oh, about 2 years now. Just ask ChrisBogart!Sorry guys, I really do need to get that welcome message updated. Okay, new goal for myself...I WILL have that welcome message updatedbeforeshowing up at "Rodmakers at Grayrock" & TroutBumBarbeque, or else... Hmmmm...wonder how I can talk my boss into changing my job title, and Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 16 11:20:22 1998 Subject: Re: error Jerry,I guess I'm living proof that a person is still allowed in thecommunityafter they pass the Z in alzheimers. Gary At 08:07 AM 4/16/98 -0500, you wrote:Garyhttp://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Jerry from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Apr 16 11:54:55 1998 Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop No Robert Clarke ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Re: Anglers WorkshopDate: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 4:32 PM RO>Mick and Art,RO> I used 'em this morning and they worked-I just got the '98catalogue witRO>the same numbers.RO> Hank. Am I the last one without the '98 catalog? Don B. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Apr 16 13:08:36 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: Finish I have done several graphite rods and don't really like either Flex Coat (especially the thick stuff). I have had some good luck with the UD40 stuff (2-part). I have also found that a cheap (ie $16) motor and stand to turn the rod is absolutely necessary. I tried the turn every 15 minutes approach and maybe it's just me, but I had trouble sticking to the timer and making it look right. The motor really help during application as well. I also don't like a lot of finish on the wraps, and even the thin flex coat is thick. I have recently purchased some finish from Manhattan Custom tackle which requires several coats but is extremely thin...we'll see how it works. I have also experimented with heating the finish before and after mixing - before is better, otherwise it seems to harden more quickly...you have time to apply at least several guides even if you are slow (in a pot of hot water) and spreading it on aluminum foil before application. Both to help cut down on bubbles. Then again there is always the old butane lighter for that (do not flame directly). can make regardless of whch finish you use. Just my opinions...others may disagree...and I am still learning...but without trying to sound cocky I think my wraps are at least as good asWinston, Sage, et al...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Finish Author: at Tcpgate I can't speak to the bamboo rod but my advice with the graphite is tostay with the tried and true, Flex Coat high build or thin or Clemen'sCrystal coat. I have found that rotating by hand every 15 minutes is enough to producea smooth finish on guides. I would also suggest getting either ofClemen's books, Fiberglass Rod Making or (and preferred) Advanced CustomRod Building. Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello Rod Builders,I know this is a baited question. I refinished a bamboo and used aurethane spar over the entire rod - bamboo as well as thread. I ampretty happy with my handiwork - hey - I have low standards! I am now ready to finish my first graphite rod. A nice little StCroix 7', 3wt, 2 pc. I have read the Skip Morris book and the GarciaBook, but still have those newbie questions lingering. Should I use Gudebrod 5 minute epoxy on the thread wraps? Could Iuse the urethane spar? I don't have a rotating device. I expect torotate manually. If I use 5 min epoxy, it should be dry in 5 minutesat 70 degrees and moderate humidity. Will it sag after 10 - 15minutes? If this goes well, I may have to refinish the bamboo again!!! Thanks in advance,Joe Mulvey from anglport@con2.com Thu Apr 16 13:47:44 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23607 for Subject: Re: PHY Para taper (Variances) Jerry, I decided to interpolate those missing nos from the nearest availablestations.I figured that 35 3/4" is 5 3/4 away from 30" and 35" is 5" away from 30".If the rise from 30 to 35 3/4 is .009, I can set up the proportion: 23 20 -- --4 4------ = -------.09 X (Actually, 4 3/4 is to a .09 spread as 5 is to a proportional spread) This gives a difference of .0078 or .008 for our purposes. Thus, the 35"station should be.193 + .008 or .201.Using the same method with 50 3/4" and 55", I got .237 for a 51"approximation. ( I tried to get a 50" setting as that's where the formswould be set anyway but extrapolating into the ferrule area gave whatseemedto be an unacceptable dimension of .233, given the one above the ferrule (5" away) is also .233.)I think it's generally safe to use this method since the tapers arenecessarily linear BETWEEN any 2 stations as nothing can tweak the formsbetween the screws.Hope this helps (and hope I didn't tell you more that you really wanted toknow), Art BOTTOM LNE: 35" is .201, 51" is .237 At 06:05 PM 4/15/98 -0400, you wrote:Jerry, I'm sorry too. That rod went back to its owner last night. There's nore-miking it now! regardsArt from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Apr 16 13:50:16 1998 (METDST) Subject: New tapers needed Hi rodmakers! Has anyone a taper for a 3 pc / 6.6 ft/#5 or 6 rod?also same weight/sections for a 6.3 ft?Action medium to fast Thanks for any help Stefan from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 14:50:47 1998 Subject: Re: New tapers needed In a message dated 4/16/98 11:54:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,gespliesst@bluewin.ch writes: Has anyone a taper for a 3 pc / 6.6 ft/#5 or 6 rod?also same weight/sections for a 6.3 ft?Action medium to fast Learn about stress curves. You will be able to develop any taper you want. I can develop the tapers for you, but be aware - what I like in an action you might not. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 14:51:46 1998 Subject: Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! In a message dated 4/16/98 6:29:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu writes: I would appreciate anyone providing an address to reach Andy Royer. His email address is:royera@sprynet.com from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 15:14:49 1998 Subject: Re: Quick Survey if You Have Time? I. What motivates consumers to purchase a bamboo fly fishing rod? ie: Function, Aesthetic,Social,and Situational I don't know, I have never bought a bamboo rod. I can only conjectureon why others would. The reason I wouldn't buy a cane rod is cost,but if a new graphite and a new cane rod cost the same I would buy bamboo. II. What are the attitudes or perceptions associated with individuals fly- fishing with bamboo? Depends on the age of the individual, and what they are fishingwith. An old gray haired man with a South Bend or Heddon wouldbe perceived as traditional. A young guy with an Orvis or Winstonwould be perceived as a yuppie. Someone like me, fishing a cane rod he made himself, probably perceived as an anomaly. But in every case someone fishing a bamboo rod is perceived as more committed to the sport, more likely to have been flyfishing longer, and more likely to stay in it. III. How are individuals purchasing bamboo fly fishing rods?ie: Shows, Retail Stores, Magazines I really haven't seen many cane rods purchased. I would guessat a retail store, so that someone could test cast it first beforehe bought it. The ones I've sold were to people I knew, and theysaw the rod and tested it first. IV. Who is competing for the bamboo rod demand? Large manufacturers, Orvis, Winston, T&T, etc. V. Where do you look to purchase when you are interested in buying an item related to fly-fishing, Do you prefer the large retailers such as Orvis or do you look to smaller morespecialized outfits. I am lucky in that I live very close to Bob Marriott's, so I can go lookat and compare flyfishing items. Most of the things I can't get thereare only available through smaller specialized outfits. Orvis doesn'tsell NS ferrules, guides, reel seats etc. anymore. VI. Advantages/Disadvantages of a bamboo rod from Orvis (or anyone similar) versus an independent maker such as yourself? The tapers I use are better than Orvis bamboo rod tapers. Orvis willlikely be in business longer than me, and probably be around tofix rods handed down to grandkids. My rods cost a lot less. VII. Describe a typical first time bamboo rod purchaserie: Income Level, Social Class, Occupation, Age, Urban/Rural, Lifestyles, Brand Loyalty, Price Sensitivity. All the first time bamboo rod purchasers I've seen were the peoplewho bought them from me, and the only reason they bought themwas because they had used one of my rods, liked it and got it alot cheaper than from a retail store. The only thing similar betweenall of them were they were all middle class, and they all flyfished. Darryl Hayashida from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Apr 16 16:17:18 1998 0400 Subject: Re[3]: Finish Actually I meant to say U-40 (as Greg correctly says in another post). I think there may be a couple kinds...I'll check which one I used when I get home tonight (I think it was DuraGloss). One application did it but I didn't find it overly thick (which is why I liked it). Also, the pot of hot water I mention below is what I put the 2 containers of U-40 in for about a half minute prior to mixing to thin the stuff out.After mixing in a plastic cup I VERY briefly put the mixture in the same hot water to eliminate bubbles. It may harden more quickly after doing this but I still found it remained thin long enough to do guides on a rod section. Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re[2]: Finish Author: at Tcpgate I have done several graphite rods and don't really like either Flex Coat (especially the thick stuff). I have had some good luck with the UD40 stuff (2-part). I have also found that a cheap (ie $16) motor and stand to turn the rod is absolutely necessary. I tried the turn every 15 minutes approach and maybe it's just me, but I had trouble sticking to the timer and making it look right. The motor really help during application as well. I also don't like a lot of finish on the wraps, and even the thin flex coat is thick. I have recently purchased some finish from Manhattan Custom tackle which requires several coats but is extremely thin...we'll see how it works. I have also experimented with heating the finish before and after mixing - before is better, otherwise it seems to harden more quickly...you have time to apply at least several guides even if you are slow (in a pot of hot water) and spreading it on aluminum foil before application. Both to help cut down on bubbles. Then again there is always the old butane lighter for that (do not flame directly). can make regardless of whch finish you use. Just my opinions...others may disagree...and I am still learning...but without trying to sound cocky I think my wraps are at least as good asWinston, Sage, et al...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Finish Author: at Tcpgate I can't speak to the bamboo rod but my advice with the graphite is tostay with the tried and true, Flex Coat high build or thin or Clemen'sCrystal coat. I have found that rotating by hand every 15 minutes is enough to producea smooth finish on guides. I would also suggest getting either ofClemen's books, Fiberglass Rod Making or (and preferred) Advanced CustomRod Building. Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello Rod Builders,I know this is a baited question. I refinished a bamboo and used aurethane spar over the entire rod - bamboo as well as thread. I ampretty happy with my handiwork - hey - I have low standards! I am now ready to finish my first graphite rod. A nice little StCroix 7', 3wt, 2 pc. I have read the Skip Morris book and the GarciaBook, but still have those newbie questions lingering. Should I use Gudebrod 5 minute epoxy on the thread wraps? Could Iuse the urethane spar? I don't have a rotating device. I expect torotate manually. If I use 5 min epoxy, it should be dry in 5 minutesat 70 degrees and moderate humidity. Will it sag after 10 - 15minutes? If this goes well, I may have to refinish the bamboo again!!! Thanks in advance,Joe Mulvey from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 16 17:35:59 1998 Subject: Garrison book All, I had a few minutes to kill today and stopped at a local FF shop, theyhave one copy of the Garrison/Carmichael book still in shrink wrap @$75. I believe this is out of print again? If so, I'd pick it up and ship it for cost (don't forget LA county 8.25%sales tax too) plus postage, if someone can't find it elsewhere. CONTACT ME OFF LIST OR YOU GO TO THE END OF THE LINE. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 16 17:37:17 1998 Subject: RE:Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! RO>Hmmmm...wonder how I can talk my boss into changing my job title,and RO>Mike BiondoRO>RODMAKERS Listguy You mean you've got a life beyond the list? Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 16 17:41:30 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine In a message dated 98-04-16 00:45:41 EDT, you write: Did you ask when we'd get billed? Don Burns from bob.kossler@TANDEM.com Thu Apr 16 17:57:02 1998 conn01.austx.tandem.com RAA05443 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine I asked when do I get billed and was told that they were installing anaccounting system and the bill would be in the mail. Also, the magazine was supposed to be out in two weeks. That was mid March. Still waiting Bob -----Original Message-----From: Canerods [SMTP:Canerods@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 3:41 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine In a message dated 98-04-16 00:45:41 EDT, you write: Just got off of the phone with Mark Metcalf.He wants me to let this list know that thesecond issue is in the mail and all whohave subscribed should be getting themsoon. >> Did you ask when we'd get billed? Don Burns from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Apr 16 19:01:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish To All: I use regular Flexcoat that's thinned 15% with methyl ethyl ketone (MEK:available from hardware stores). This really eliminates bubbles, helps itflow, and keeps it from setting up before I've finished coating the wraps.MEK would work on other forms of epoxy finishes, I'm sure. --Rich from stpete@netten.net Thu Apr 16 19:01:24 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA15478 for Subject: First stab at Hexrod I'm interested in the PHY Driggs River posted by Wayne C. and reposted posted for 6" stations) and got the detailed report (extrapolations to1" dimensions). Then I got the planing form report for 5" increments. 1. Any problems with doing this kind of thing? Are we losing much in the translation from 6" readings to calculations for a 5" output? 2. Are the ferrule sizes computed by the program reliable? That is,if you've made a taper from the program did you find the computed ferrule size to be the proper one to use? 3. John Channer, the tapers were posted "backwards", that is 0" was something like .209 while 45" was .070. Also, the taper was listed with each section starting at '0'.Finally, the readings were for the '0' mard to be the thick end of the section and the 45" dimension being the thin end of each section.I now know what you mean by not knowing if you "got it right" when you enter that type of taper posting into Hexrod. It's much easiertoenter the dimensions of the assembled rod. Thanks for letting me in onTHAT. Hexrod virgin no longer, Rick from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 16 19:16:00 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Rick -There were several rod makers of the past that worked in 6" - 3" andeven 11/2" increments - with the planing forms built at 5" centers that is thebestyou will do - I would doubt that you could tell the difference casting thedifferent rods. I have test run the Windows(it hurts to say that) versionandnext week the troutbums at Grayrock are going to give it a workout Wayne from JDemp1@AOL.COM Thu Apr 16 19:40:31 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order would be interested in a few spools -------Jed from BGray75837@aol.com Thu Apr 16 20:04:00 1998 Subject: listserv Would someone please tell me how to get off this listserv. Not that I haveanything aginst any rod makers, it's just that I use my computor many forbusiness and all of this e-mailings are taking up too much room. Thanks, Billy Graybgray75837@aol.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 16 20:51:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re:__PFLUEGER_Medalist_1492_ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 16 20:51:17 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit Rich,The TBBQ is June 26th and 27th. Wayne has more details.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 16 20:51:22 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit/rat race Brett,I have to say "Amen" to the fly shop comment. I tried it for 6 years(about5 years too long). Now that I'm guiding and teaching and building rods I'finally in the black. The inventory was eating me up.Hank. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 16 20:59:47 1998 VAA11705;Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:59:39 -0400 Subject: Blue Ridge Rodmakers BBQ To All I have posted info and directions off of my home pagewww.shentel.net/canerodwith a link from rodmaking classes page for the get together for thosewho planto attendand need directions. More info to follow. Chris from CALucker@aol.com Thu Apr 16 21:06:57 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order Regarding the custom silk order: It looks like the color is going to be either what is known as New Curry orAntique Gold (Corticelli 5175, a warm gold that goes chestnut with tungoilvarnish) or Java Beige (Corticelli 5115 a medium brown that is very verycloseto what you see on Payne's when you use color preserver, and pretty darkandmuddy when you don't). I prefer the 5175 color, but it's not entirely my decision. I am still getting requests and suggestions, so give me another weekbefore Ilet all interested know about our color choice, size choice, and whetherwecan get additional colors. Chris Lucker from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Apr 16 21:23:19 1998 Subject: Re: jewellery In a message dated 98-04-08 20:25:21 EDT, you write: snip Terry Longair Terry: Contact me off list and I will share some good casting rod taperswithyou. Would post to the list, but zero interest shown in past offers. Regards,Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Apr 16 21:31:39 1998 Subject: Re: Sewell Dunton rod Hank - I have an 8 - 0, # 5, 2-pc made around 1970 from a Dunton blank. Atthe time it was the only blank offered with a light- weight line. Exceptforthe node spacing, all is quite ok, including the glue lines which are quitewell defined by the resorcinol glue used. The rod has a med- fast taperthatis quite plesant to cast. The node spacing indicates the splits werechosenrandomly and probably from different culms. In one places on the butt,nodeson three adjacent flats are in quite close proximity. However, it is a goodfishing rod. Regards,Richard from gwr@seanet.com Thu Apr 16 21:41:03 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13941 for; Subject: Re: Grand silk order Chris, I neglected to give a color preference when I asked to be counted in onthe order. 5175 would be best for me, though I'd take a few spools of theother to help bulk up an order. If you go with the 5175, I'd get at least adozen spools, maybe more depending on price. Thanks, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com Regarding the custom silk order: It looks like the color is going to be either what is known as New CurryorAntique Gold (Corticelli 5175, a warm gold that goes chestnut with tungoilvarnish) or Java Beige (Corticelli 5115 a medium brown that is very verycloseto what you see on Payne's when you use color preserver, and pretty darkandmuddy when you don't). I prefer the 5175 color, but it's not entirely my decision. I am still getting requests and suggestions, so give me another weekbeforeIlet all interested know about our color choice, size choice, and whetherwecan get additional colors. Chris Lucker from gwr@seanet.com Thu Apr 16 21:44:19 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14061 for; Subject: Re: jewellery Richard, The interest isn't zero, it's just not vocal. I prefer flyrods myself,but I grew up on spinning gear and my old man would love nothing betterthanto have me build him a spinning or casting rod now that I'm getting intothis side of the discipline (straying from plastic). I'd sure appreciate itif you'd post to the list. Thanks, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: jewellery In a message dated 98-04-08 20:25:21 EDT, you write: snipcastingTerry Longair Terry: Contact me off list and I will share some good casting rod taperswithyou. Would post to the list, but zero interest shown in past offers.Regards,Richard from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Thu Apr 16 21:46:05 1998 8.7/8.7) idWAA35140 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:42:47 - Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Don Burns wrote: Did you ask when we'd get billed? from FLYROD777@aol.com Thu Apr 16 21:46:29 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Wayne When do you think it will hit the streets? By the way how are the troutbumsin Grayrock? Looking forward to the gathering. Do you have a date. Iremember you saying in late Jun. Thanks Mark JerryI thought he had two bits in his setup.Rich Jezioro At 09:44 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't thinkit was the bit we are looking for, i can't remember the guy's name buthe had a setup with the correct bit at the grayrock meeting a couple ofyears ago, maybe some one else remembers, as i recall it was set up todo the rough 60's, no taper. great little gadget, i asked him to bringit this year.. jerry from richjez@enteract.com Sat Apr 11 09:31:27 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Great Lakes Naval Training Center is on Lake Michigan and is still "fresh"water. At least as of 8am when I was down there last. Rich Jezioro At 08:41 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote: FLYROD777 wrote: My machinests at the Navy Machinest School are leary about digital.Just anopinion Mark Hallowell I guess the salt spray rots them out?Terry from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 09:33:31 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA18968 for Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) Thanks Jerry.... ...... Art At 09:44 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't think jerry from jczimny@dol.net Sat Apr 11 09:34:56 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Indeed they should be. But only if you're working in 10ths.John Zimny FLYROD777 wrote: My machinests at the Navy Machinest School are leary about digital. Justanopinion Mark Hallowell from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 09:40:07 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19257 for Subject: Re: Router bit Mark,I ran into that wall a few years back (I think it was $50 bucks then; giveyou an idea how MANY years back). I wonder with all the machinists wehavein this group if it isn't possible to modify a (high speed) straight 3/4"bit on a lathe and retemper it? Once it's softened (annealed?) it should bea breeze to do with a thread cutter. Then just reharden. Or is that like thekid who says to Dad "All ya gotta do is take the engine out and put it backin again--how long could it take?"Art At 09:32 PM 4/10/98 +0000, you wrote:grizzly sells the bit you're looking for in 90 deg. great if you want todo quads. I looked at having one done for me but the guy wanted 200bucks and as it was untested I passed.mark from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 09:44:53 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id KAA19481 for Subject: Re: Router bit John,I'll keep in touch and let you know how my design turns out. Chatter wasn'tone of my worries..perhaps I'd better think this through some more on allcounts. Just remember to LET GO!! I almost didn't in a particularly stupidstunt on my radial arm saw a long while back, but I can still count to ten.Art Art;I built a similar set up and use a flush trimming bit and a wooden formmade with a 60 d router bit. Actually, it takes two forms the way I haveitset up, I will let you knowif and when I get it working right.John Channer from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 09:57:18 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA20245 for Subject: Re: Router bit Don,That's the concept I'm working off, but I don't have a shaper and I do havea router. The $200 custom jobbie starts to look like a steal when youcompare it to the price of a shaper AND the needed cutters!Still looking,Art At 08:11 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Has anyone tried using a shaper/molder? The kind that cut molding usepre-shaped blades so you might be able to cut the 60 d all in one pass. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 10:26:27 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA21704 for Subject: Thanks, Jerry Snider Jerry,Just got the Sci Am photocopy this am. Appreciate it. If I can ever returnthe favor let me know.Art from stpete@netten.net Sat Apr 11 11:06:20 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id LAA12570 for Subject: Re: Heddon taper I've got a Heddon #115 Premier 8'6", 2F, 3/2. It's been recoated withvarnish by an oldtimer a long while back. Other than that, it's alloriginial. Bag, tube, etc. I understand that the #115 was the Model 20 grade blank made for Searsonly had fewer guides. Anyone out there with M.Sinclair's book,'Heddon, The Rod with the Fighting Heart', that can confirm this? Ihave only his 'Restoration' book. I'd be glad to take the taper, but you guys had better give me somepointers on taking tapers of existing rods with varying finishes. Also,if you average station readings on all flats (3 per station?) Whathappens if a guide is at the station? Let's hear your methods. I wantto contribute to this list but, I don't want to give you guys bum info. I also have an 8' Phillipson Pacemaker that I really like. I'd postthat one also if anyone wants it. Rick Crenshaw from flyfisher@brinet.com Sat Apr 11 11:08:31 1998 12:09:25 -0400 Subject: Re: digital caliper Terence Ackland wrote: Donald Yelton wrote: Robert S Williams wrote: Love my digital caliper, quicker to read. Be nice to see a digitaldepth gauge. They are available. So are digital micrometers. They also make themthat plug into computers. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com SPC in rodmaking, why not indeed?Terry Someone just needs to make the program to enter the stats into a taperprogram. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Apr 11 11:18:11 1998 (205.236.248.141) Subject: Re: digital caliper Cris,STP is used in production manufacturing as as means of tracking qualityor thelack of.It has no practical use for us.Terry Chris Bogart wrote: Terry The SPC software demo is available from the Starrett web siteif you want to see the future of rodmaking fanaticism for accuracy. Unless you get a portable recording unit - you have to drag the computerintothe shop.The question I ask them now that you know all the stations of the stripsbothbefore andafter glueing and can plot it out 3 ways to sunday - then what? Do yougo toget the perfectzero tolerance graphs and ability to repeat it? We must remember the customer only sees the rod not the processelsewewould never eat sausage! Chris On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 08:44:25 -0400, Terence Ackland wrote: Regards Chris from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Apr 11 11:28:43 1998 (205.236.248.141) Subject: Re: digital caliper Is it digital technology or vernier calipers that the freshwater 'salts' arelearyof?Terry J. C. Zimny wrote: Indeed they should be. But only if you're working in 10ths.John Zimny FLYROD777 wrote: My machinests at the Navy Machinest School are leary about digital. Just anopinion Mark Hallowell from flyfisher@brinet.com Sat Apr 11 11:31:45 1998 12:32:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Router bit Art Port wrote: Don,That's the concept I'm working off, but I don't have a shaper and I do havea router. The $200 custom jobbie starts to look like a steal when youcompare it to the price of a shaper AND the needed cutters!Still looking,Art Jesada has a good selection of router bit. I noticed several 60 d onesthat might do the job. Some of them have bearings for chamfering thatmight do what you want. They run about $36.50. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 11:45:33 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE92C70152; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:47:14 MDT Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) At 10:43 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Thanks Jerry.... ...... Art At 09:44 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't think jerry Art;Shrubbery?? from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 11:51:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AFE315400BA; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 10:52:51 MDT Subject: Re: Router bit At 10:54 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:John,I'll keep in touch and let you know how my design turns out. Chatterwasn'tone of my worries..perhaps I'd better think this through some more on allcounts. Just remember to LET GO!! I almost didn't in a particularly stupidstunt on my radial arm saw a long while back, but I can still count to ten.Art Art;I built a similar set up and use a flush trimming bit and a wooden formmade with a 60 d router bit. Actually, it takes two forms the way I haveitset up, I will let you knowif and when I get it working right.John Channer Art;Don't worry about my fingers, I'm a carpenter and believe me, I know whento let go! Learned that the hard way a long time ago, still have all ten,but one of them won't straighten out any more. I built my horizontal routertable so my hands couldn't get near the cutter for that very reason. Thanks John(careful in Colorado)Channer from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 11:58:12 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA28951 for Subject: Re: Router bit Don,I'm looking...I'm looking....(Is there a mantra tht might help?)Art At 12:28 PM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Art Port wrote: Don,That's the concept I'm working off, but I don't have a shaper and I dohavea router. The $200 custom jobbie starts to look like a steal when youcompare it to the price of a shaper AND the needed cutters!Still looking,Art Jesada has a good selection of router bit. I noticed several 60 d onesthat might do the job. Some of them have bearings for chamfering thatmight do what you want. They run about $36.50. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 11 12:01:28 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA29237 for Subject: Re: Router bit (JERRY) At 02:18 AM 2/22/98, you wrote:At 10:43 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote:Thanks Jerry.... ...... Art At 09:44 PM 4/10/98 -0500, you wrote:Hi Art ya it was Mike, list supremo, Biondo, and he answered but i don't think jerry Art;Shrubbery?? John,I dunno----can ya smoke it?Artps: I got a feelin' we're gonna have to take this off-list if it gets muchwackier. from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 12:03:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2DBDD0152; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 11:05:31 MDT Subject: Re: Heddon taper At 11:02 AM 4/11/98 -0500, you wrote:I've got a Heddon #115 Premier 8'6", 2F, 3/2. It's been recoated withvarnish by an oldtimer a long while back. Other than that, it's alloriginial. Bag, tube, etc. I understand that the #115 was the Model 20 grade blank made for Searsonly had fewer guides. Anyone out there with M.Sinclair's book,'Heddon, The Rod with the Fighting Heart', that can confirm this? Ihave only his 'Restoration' book. I'd be glad to take the taper, but you guys had better give me somepointers on taking tapers of existing rods with varying finishes. Also,if you average station readings on all flats (3 per station?) Whathappens if a guide is at the station? Let's hear your methods. I wantto contribute to this list but, I don't want to give you guys bum info. I also have an 8' Phillipson Pacemaker that I really like. I'd postthat one also if anyone wants it. Rick Crenshaw Rick;You're right about the 115's, they were #20's with fewer guides andcheaperreel seat, the 125's were standard # 20's with different color thread. Withthe programs available these days you can make your measurements ascloseto 5" as you can and record the distance accurately for the ones that havea guide in the way and the program will figure out the 5" dimensions foryou. Check out Frank Stetzer's version of Hexrod thru Rodmakers, it even iscapable of deducting for varnish, but you have to enter how much. Whemyoumeasure, take all three flats and average.What line weight Pacemaker doyouhave, I'ld be interested in a 5 or 4 weight. I would also be interested inthe Heddon, I assume that the 2F is an HEH or D (5/6).John Channer from stpete@netten.net Sat Apr 11 13:38:25 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id NAA18749 for Subject: Re: Heddon taper John, The Heddon is for HDH or E, so I guess that rates it a 6 wt, but I findit throws a DT #5 well. I use it for multi-purpose fishing ontailwaters and have to make 20' to 50' casts depending on where I'mstanding and how high the water is. A DT#6 makes for better shortcasts. The Phillipson casts a DT#5 well, but I find the Wulff TT 5/6 to be thesuperior line for it. I'll take the tapers tonight or tomorrow and post by Sunday night. Rick from Millsx5@aol.com Sat Apr 11 14:16:36 1998 Subject: Test Having watched for a couple of months I wanted to see if I could get on.Hello to everybody.Mike Mills from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 14:27:57 1998 Subject: Re: RE:Heddon Parts Don,Bernard and I were very good friends and I spent a full day with himsittingin his kitchen talking about rod building, hunting and life in general justtwo days before he died. There are not many people like him in the worldandwhen they pass it is a great loss to us all. I miss him very much and thinkof him and his friendship often.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 14:32:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Heddon Parts Chris,Thanks I don't know what I did with his # but now I have it again. The lasttime I talked to Leon I was sure that he said he had all the bamboo stuffBernard had and I think he may have or knows who has the rest of thestuff.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 14:42:22 1998 Subject: John Channer/ Heddon rods John,I have a Petrie Special made by Heddon that I am looking to possibly sell. 9',3pcs21/2 ferrules. All pieces are the correct length and it looks like originalvarnish but professionally rewrapped. If you are interested let me knowandmake an offer. It is in a cardboard type tube with the original bag and Iwould say the rod is in VG condition. It has been fished as the handle isdirty from sweat and fish juice but will clean up nicely.Bret from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 16:21:38 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AF4528011C; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 15:23:17 MDT Subject: Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods At 03:41 PM 4/11/98 EDT, you wrote:John,I have a Petrie Special made by Heddon that I am looking to possibly sell.9',3pcs21/2 ferrules. All pieces are the correct length and it looks like originalvarnish but professionally rewrapped. If you are interested let me knowandmake an offer. It is in a cardboard type tube with the original bag and Iwould say the rod is in VG condition. It has been fished as the handle isdirty from sweat and fish juice but will clean up nicely.Bret Bret;While I'ld love to buy it, I'm afraid the current debt to income ratioaround this house won,t allow for it:i.e. I'm broke and haven't evenfigured out how much of what I don't have Uncle Sam is going to want. Outof idle curiosity, what is a Petrie Special, that is one I haven't heardof. I have a #14 HCH or D 9' 3 pc. 2 1/2 F with a featherweight reel seatthat I used for smallmouth fishing back in Illinois, nice rod forstreamers, but too heavy for the trout fishing I do here in Colorado.I wasgoing to sell it thru one of the dealers, but 9' rods are such a drag onthe market these days I figure I'll just hang on to it.If I have anygrandchildren, maybe it will be worth something to them.Good fishin' toyouJohn Channer from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat Apr 11 16:52:22 1998 ; Sun, 12 Apr 1998 09:52:14 +1200 Subject: Re: Router bit At 03:31 PM 21/02/98, you wrote:At 09:57 PM 4/10/98 -0400, you wrote: Just regarding the discussion on routers and 60 degree angles . I picked upa really interesting book in a garage sale last week .It is called "freshwater tackle " by John Knight , and published in 1949 . The name meansnothing to me but may to some of you and there is a very interesting andapparently informed discussion on cane rods . One of the more interesting comments is the following : " Here again theproduction boys take a short cut . They do not have time to work to closetolerences . Instead their rotary cutters are set at 61 and a half degrees .This ensures a snug fit at the surface of the rod , even though the insideof the rod depends upon a padding of glue to fill up the gaps " Given that many of the old "production" rods were very good rods and thisbook suggests else where that " there are very few handmade rodsavailabletoday " these comments may be relevent to those considering some formofbeveller . regards ian kearney Deleted AJ,Al is asking a LOT more of his machine than I wished to ask ofmine.if and when I get it working right.John Channer Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from mstevens@ptdprolog.net Sat Apr 11 17:09:22 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Heddon taper Hello, I collect Heddon rods and have about 20 of them in various models andlengths. I can provide tapers when I get the time if interested. I have amodel 20 7 1/2' 2 pc. Featherweight, 8' 2pc Folsum 1522, and 8' 3pc Model10. In the longer rods I have Model 35 and 50's and one Model 60 Deluxe in8 1/2' 2F. Please let me know if any of these tapers would be of interest. I also have several project rods for sale if interested. Email for list. Thanks, Mike Michael StevensRR 1 Box 307CEffort PA 18330 610 681 5670 mstevens@ptdprolog.net Stevens Sight & Tool CoMaker of fine sights for antique single shot target rifles Collector of Heddon and other bamboo flyrods and casting rods. HeddonRiverRunt Spooks and Coxe baitcasting reels. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 19:53:29 1998 Subject: Re: Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods John,I was told that a Petrie Special was made for a store as one of their rods.Unfortunately I obtained this rod after Bernard Hills passed away so Icouldnot ask him about it. Bret from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat Apr 11 20:00:35 1998 Subject: Re: Test Hello Mike, Welcome aboard. Dave L. from channer@hubwest.com Sat Apr 11 20:06:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3ED9F0118; Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:07:57 MDT Subject: Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods At 08:52 PM 4/11/98 EDT, you wrote:John,I was told that a Petrie Special was made for a store as one of their rods.Unfortunately I obtained this rod after Bernard Hills passed away so Icouldnot ask him about it. Bret Bret;Your previous post piqued my curiosity, so I looked thru Mike Sinclair'sbook and discovered that the Petie Special was one of their many traderods.Unfortuneately the book doesn't specify what quality level this rodis, it was their only one for Petrie Sporting Goods in Madison, Wisc. Maybethe wrap colors might match one of their standard models and all they didwas to letter it for Petrie, this was common on many of their trade rods.Ifyou are interested in Heddon, Mike's book is very informative.John Channer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat Apr 11 20:13:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods John,This rod is as good as any Heddons that I have seen. The cane is straightandit has the standard reelseat of theirs plus the ferrules and everything elseis of Heddon quality.Bret from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 20:27:34 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Heddon taper RO>I've got a Heddon #115 Premier 8'6", 2F, 3/2. It's been recoated withRO>varnish by an oldtimer a long while back. Other than that, it's allRO>originial. Bag, tube, etc. RO>I understand that the #115 was the Model 20 grade blank made forSearsRO>only had fewer guides. Anyone out there with M.Sinclair's book,RO>'Heddon, The Rod with the Fighting Heart', that can confirm this? IRO>have only his 'Restoration' book. It's a #20 with fewer guides and cheaper reelseat per "Heddon, The Rodwith the Fighting Heart" by Michael Sinclair. OBTW, this book islight-years ahead of his earlier restoration book in both proofreadingand editing. An excellent book for Heddon collectors. RO>I'd be glad to take the taper, but you guys had better give me someRO>pointers on taking tapers of existing rods with varying finishes. Also,RO>if you average station readings on all flats (3 per station?) WhatRO>happens if a guide is at the station? Let's hear your methods. I wantRO>to contribute to this list but, I don't want to give you guys bum info. The 8'6" #17 (Black Beauty) 2F in the archives should have the sametaper. RO>I also have an 8' Phillipson Pacemaker that I really like. I'd postRO>that one also if anyone wants it. RO>Rick Crenshaw from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 20:27:36 1998 Subject: RE:RE:Heddon Parts RO>Don,RO>Bernard and I were very good friends and I spent a full day with himsittingRO>in his kitchen talking about rod building, hunting and life in generaljustRO>two days before he died. There are not many people like him in theworld anRO>when they pass it is a great loss to us all. I miss him very much andthinkRO>of him and his friendship often.RO>Bret Bret, You should put in writing some of his rodmaking knowledge. Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 20:27:52 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Heddon taper RO>Hello, RO>I collect Heddon rods and have about 20 of them in various models andRO>lengths. I can provide tapers when I get the time if interested. I have aRO>model 20 7 1/2' 2 pc. Featherweight, 8' 2pc Folsum 1522, and 8' 3pcModelRO>10. In the longer rods I have Model 35 and 50's and one Model 60 DeluxeinRO>8 1/2' 2F. RO>Please let me know if any of these tapers would be of interest. RO>I also have several project rods for sale if interested. Email for list. RO>Thanks, RO>Mike Mike, How about stripping down the 7'6" #20 and give us the taper. I would be interested in this taper, even with the varnish. Does it havethe ferrule size marked on it? (I think there was both "0-3/4F" and1-1/2F two- piece rods) Also the 8' Folsom taper, if you get a chance. Don Burns PS - Mike's a good source for project rods. from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 11 20:31:25 1998 Subject: RE:Re: John Channer/ Heddon rods RO>John,RO>This rod is as good as any Heddons that I have seen. The cane isstraight aRO>it has the standard reelseat of theirs plus the ferrules and everythingelseRO>is of Heddon quality.RO>Bret John, Bret and all, Michael Sinclair can be reached at: Caneclinic@aol.com - it takes sometime to get a reply sometimes. I don't know if he picks up his mail eachday. He runs a rod restoration business besides writing his books. Ipassed on Jerry's site to him some time ago and asked him to joinrodmakers too. Maybe he's out there lurking? Don Burns from lblan@provide.net Sat Apr 11 23:14:28 1998 Subject: RE: Router bit If you can find suitable shaper blades, CMT sells a 1/2" shank arbor thatwill allow the use of shaper blades in a router. -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Sent: Saturday, April 11, 1998 8:12 AM Subject: Re: Router bit Has anyone tried using a shaper/molder? The kind that cut molding usepre- shaped blades so you might be able to cut the 60 d all in one pass. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from anglport@con2.com Sun Apr 12 08:30:08 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA15595 for Subject: RE: Router bit At 12:13 AM 4/12/98 -0400, you wrote:If you can find suitable shaper blades, CMT sells a 1/2" shank arbor thatwill allow the use of shaper blades in a router. Larry,Now THAT's something that might be workable. I never considered such asolution. This is some powerful brain-trust we have going here. Now, how about we work on ways I could knock another $2000 off myincome taxes?Seriously, thanks,Art from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Apr 12 11:46:57 1998 Subject: Re: RE:RE:Heddon Parts Don,I plan on going up to his daughters house soon to sit down with her andpossibly work on an article for The Bamboo Rod magazine. I am sure thatshehas many photographs of her dad in his shop and at Heddon. I wish that Iwould have kept notes when I was with him but I didn't. All I can go onwiththis is what I remember him showing me and I will have to sort out whatis hisand what I learned elsewhere.Bret from cbogart@shentel.net Sun Apr 12 19:36:08 1998 Subject: Blue Ridge Rodmakers Bamboo BBQ To All In response to those who wanted an mid atlantic / eastern / southernget together for rodmakers this year: I have finally seen daylight from taxes and rods to finalize plans 16/17 May 1998. It just happens this coincides with excellentsmallmouthfishing on the South Fork of the Shenandoah River and prime time on the Shenandoah National Park mountain streams for native brook trout. So bring your fishing gear - good news is a 5 day out of state licence is about$6 and you don't need a trout stamp or National Forest stamp for either fishing - best bargin around! I will have fly tying vise set up for thosewhoare pattern challanged or just want to try some new ideas. This is an informal affair for rodmakers to get together and enjoygood rods, fishing, and refreshments. The shop will be open and benchesset up for those who want to bring gadgets and things to share. The riverisabout 250 yrd walk / drive from the shop and there is a public fishing lake parking across the street. On Saturday I will be starting about 0800 to get things open for everyone and it will go until ???? On Sunday it is fishing in the AM andat 2:00 PM my friends at the Shenandoah Lodge is giving me the useof the Lido Deck and their "big Bertha" BBQ grill plus the assistance oftheir head chief who always out does himself. I will have sodas and beer campgroundsat the Shenandoah River Outfitters who are less than a half mile furtherdowntheroad the number is 540 743-4159 to make reservations - I have most ofthe otherplaces to stay linked off my homepage (www.shentel.net/canerod). So for those who plan to come please send me an email off thelistserveso I can plan to have enough for everyone. Directions and other info tofollow. Please pass the info on to anyone who is a rodmaker and would like toattend. Regards Chris from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Apr 12 21:43:09 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Well the way I feel aafterr 22 years it may very well be the machinest Mark H from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun Apr 12 21:44:03 1998 Subject: Re: digital caliper Jerry How close are you? Be nice to have someone else local to touch baseswith. Local 847-688-1330 or 2429 (W) Mark H from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 13 00:35:08 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA22237 +0000 Subject: Thanks to all for froe info Thanks to all who responded! George W. Bourke (NOT Barnes)aka irish-george@worldnet.att.net from stpete@netten.net Mon Apr 13 00:46:36 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA14150 for Subject: Phillipson Pacemaker taper Here is the taper for my Phillipson Pacemaker. 8'0", 3/2, casts a WulffTT 5/6 very nicely. Obviously has a swelled butt into that funkylooking but very comfortable Phillipson full wells grip. tip 32" 0" .0705" .08510" .09615" .10920" .12525" .13730" .149 mid3" .1755" .18410" .19315" .20620" .21525" .22430" .229 butt3" .2625" .26610" .28915" .29420" .30622" .345 this is the swell just before the wrap at the grip. Varnish on the rod plus one re-dip, so figure from there on thethickness. Rick from stpete@netten.net Mon Apr 13 00:54:42 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA14339 for Subject: Taper for Heddon Premier #115 Taper is taken from Heddon Premier #115, 8'6", 2F, 3/2, for HDH or Eline. tip 34-1/2"0" .0835" .10110" .11015" .12320" .14025" .15030" .16733" .173 mid3" .1745" .17810" .19515" .21020" .22525" .23730" .25133" .258 butt3" .2865" .29010" .30015" .31920" .32623" .422 this is the dramatic swelled butt of this rod before itgoes into the grip Varnish is old original plus one "hand(finger) applied job by some oldtimer who knew this was just a damn good tool. So figure your varnishthickness from there. Rick from bairdart@burgoyne.com Mon Apr 13 03:12:28 1998 Subject: Senate fly rod To list, I would like to know if anyone has any info on a "Senate" flyrod, 9' three piece, w/ 2 tips. Any help would be appreciated. ThanksBob B. from bairdart@burgoyne.com Mon Apr 13 03:12:29 1998 Subject: Senate fly rod To list, I am trying to find out any information i can about a "Senate"fly rod. Can anyone supply info. Thanks in advance Bob B. from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 13 06:06:15 1998 Subject: RE:Senate fly rod RO>To list, I would like to know if anyone has any info on a "Senate" flyRO>rod, 9' three piece, w/ 2 tips. Any help would be appreciated. ThanksRO>Bob B. Bob, The Sinclair restoration book has a H-I Senate rod listed during the1930's. Spec's are listed as round cane, NPB reelseat, NPB ferrules withrolled welts. Agate stripper and tungsten steel snake guides. Green/goldwraps and broad green bands on butt & mid. Gold intermediates. Cost newwas $12. Sound close? Don Burns from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Apr 13 07:58:32 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks, Jerry Snider No problem. Wish that it had copied better!Jerry Snider.At 11:36 AM 4/11/98 -0400, you wrote: Jerry,Just got the Sci Am photocopy this am. Appreciate it. If I can ever returnthe favor let me know.Art from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Apr 13 08:10:04 1998 (205.236.248.80) Subject: Re: heat treatin Coffey, Patrick W wrote: check out the heat treating at this web side. Their explanation is thesame as what Walton Powell told me (steam rupture). This is a prettyinteresting way of heat treating. http://www.gtii.com/paulyoung/ Patrick Pat,the lumber industry has been kiln drying their product for years. Steamplasticises wood fibers, I cannot imagine fibers getting torn apart.I was once told that Young developed flaming to hide the badly markedcanethey were forced to pick over during the embargo.An interesting site, even though most of it is a crock.Terry from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 13 08:58:06 1998 Subject: RE:RE:Heddon Parts RO>Don,RO>I plan on going up to his daughters house soon to sit down with her andRO>possibly work on an article for The Bamboo Rod magazine. I am surethat sheRO>has many photographs of her dad in his shop and at Heddon. I wish thatIRO>would have kept notes when I was with him but I didn't. All I can go onwitRO>this is what I remember him showing me and I will have to sort outwhat is hRO>and what I learned elsewhere.RO>Bret Bret, Maybe Michael Sinclair could help you with details. He just completedhis Heddon book and must have good notes on Bernie. Try to contact himat Caneclinic@aol.com. Don Burns from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Mon Apr 13 13:15:16 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Swelled butt forms List, I'm making a new set of forms and would like to build ina taper for swelled butts. Do any of you have anysuggestions for dimensions? I'm just guessing, but wouldthink about .150 to .225 over a space of 5 inches. Therehas to be someone with better ideas than a guess.Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from bob.kossler@TANDEM.com Mon Apr 13 13:23:24 1998 conn01.mis.tandem.com (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: the big bamboo Finally a first post. I have been following the various threads on thislist for months and now have a question.How do I order my first batch of cane from Andy Royer. The quality ofhis can sounds compelling and would having never purchased, this seems to be as good a reference as it gets.Any information would be helpfull.Thanks in advance,BobBamboo Flyrod Builder WannaBe. -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Thursday, April 09, 1998 5:49 PM Subject: Re: the big bamboo I also have been pleased with the cane Andy has sent. I appreciatethiseven more when I here Terry say similar things. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Terence Ackland Subject: the big bambooDate: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 8:50 PM About 6 weeks ago I received a shipment of 2 bales of cane from myregular supplier which has been getting worse over the years, whichIwas lead to believe was the Chinese adjusting to a free marketeconomy.A. Royer phoned me a couple of weeks ago and suggested I try some ofhisbamboo. the freight from the west coast was about $75 so I decidedthatI should order 4 bales asthe shipping was about the same as for one bale.I received my Royer cane on Friday and got to unwrap 2 bales and Imustadmit that this is the best cane I have ever seen in the 15 years ofrodmaking.I remember a year or so ago when Royer first appeared on the listwith apromise of supplying good bamboo, I made a comment on how can a newkidon the block be in a position to supply unmarked can whenestablishedcompanies cannot. The cane I received is thick, yellow and unmarked. I have some thatmustbe 4in dia, incredible.I feel great, all is not lost, perhaps there is good bamboo outthere.Terry from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Apr 13 15:15:03 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms In a message dated 4/13/98 6:23:36 PM, you wrote: Harry - I have not spent a lot of time on swelled butts, so take this as my$.02, and not much else. First, I would put the swell further up the groovethan the .150 mark. A lot of light line tapers have dimensions less than.300at the end of the action length. My own homemade forms have a swell of about .030. I doubt that even thatmuchswell is necessary to stop the action, my feeling is that anything morethan10% is showing off. BUT, I have nothing against showing off, and considertheextreme butt swells you see on some T&T's or Leonards to be marks ofrodbuilding skill. Before I attacked my forms any further, however, Iwouldmake a 60 degree groove in a board with my router table and plane someteststrips to see if I was going to run into any problems. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Apr 13 15:52:43 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 13Apr 1998 16:54:05 -0400 Subject: Ferrule Producers I was wondering who manufactures ferrules (in mass quantities). I am not curious who resales them. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 13 17:38:33 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA05867 for; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:42:26 +0100 Subject: Handles I was looking at one of Tom Moran's very nice handles the other day. Itfeatures inset bamboo strips (running fore 'n aft) in an otherwise all corkhandle filler: these to take the pressure from the reel bands, and toprevent the bands from biting into the cork. Does anyone have any advicetooffer on the making and fitting of these two bamboo strips. The corks on the same handle were also nicely shaped (milled/sanded) toaccommodate the reel foot. I've tried to do this on my own cork fillers,but end up tearing the cork. Can anyone offer insight on the best way toachieve the shape. Tom's were very accurate, and very smooth, and clearly(unless he drinks less than me) the result of machine work (maybe a veryhigh speed miller with fine sandpaper insteed of a cutter). Tom spent some time at Thomas and Thomas, but I belive the rod I sawpre- dates that period. John Cooper (England) from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 13 17:38:33 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with ESMTP id XAA05864 for; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:42:24 +0100 Subject: Stoner fluting Is anyone milling semi-hollow rods with Winston-like fluting for his ownuse (obviously not for sale, which would infringe the patent, and infuriateWinston). I invented this a few years ago, on paper, and was verypissed-off to find that Winston (Stoner) had invented that particularwheellong before me. John Cooper (England) from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Apr 13 17:59:27 1998 (205.236.249.185) Subject: Re: the big bamboo Try royera@sprynet.comKossler, Bob wrote: Finally a first post. I have been following the various threads on thislist for months and now have a question.How do I order my first batch of cane from Andy Royer. The quality ofhis can sounds compelling and wouldhaving never purchased, this seems to be as good a reference as it gets.Any information would be helpfull.Thanks in advance,BobBamboo Flyrod Builder WannaBe. -----Original Message-----From: Robert Clarke [SMTP:rclarke@eou.edu]Sent: Thursday, April 09, 1998 5:49 PM Subject: Re: the big bamboo I also have been pleased with the cane Andy has sent. I appreciatethiseven more when I here Terry say similar things. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Terence Ackland Subject: the big bambooDate: Tuesday, April 07, 1998 8:50 PM About 6 weeks ago I received a shipment of 2 bales of cane from myregular supplier which has been getting worse over the years, whichIwas lead to believe was the Chinese adjusting to a free marketeconomy.A. Royer phoned me a couple of weeks ago and suggested I try some ofhisbamboo. the freight from the west coast was about $75 so I decidedthatI should order 4 bales asthe shipping was about the same as for one bale.I received my Royer cane on Friday and got to unwrap 2 bales and Imustadmit that this is the best cane I have ever seen in the 15 years ofrodmaking.I remember a year or so ago when Royer first appeared on the listwith apromise of supplying good bamboo, I made a comment on how can anewkidon the block be in a position to supply unmarked can whenestablishedcompanies cannot. The cane I received is thick, yellow and unmarked. I have some thatmustbe 4in dia, incredible.I feel great, all is not lost, perhaps there is good bamboo outthere.Terry from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Apr 13 18:08:55 1998 Subject: Re: Handles/cork reelseats I've considered having a grinding stone cut to do just that. I can't find ahooded sliding band seat a la Garrison on the market. My guru HomerJenningswho worked with Moran while in the U.K. once mentioned seeing a routerbittool with a dozen or more blades. But I don't remember if it was in Moran'sshop. Next time I talk to him, I'll mention it... Rob from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Apr 13 18:11:01 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 13Apr 1998 19:12:30 -0400 Subject: Quick Survey if You Have Time? I hope some of you will take the time to respond to this short survey. A buddy of mine and I are in a consumer behavior class in which we have to write a paper on a product and target market. Since there is no public primary research available, I thought I might do some of my own with the help of you all. Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond. I. What motivates consumers to purchase a bamboo fly fishing rod? ie: Function, Aesthetic,Social,and Situational II. What are the attitudes or perceptions associated with individuals fly- fishing with bamboo? III. How are individuals purchasing bamboo fly fishing rods?ie: Shows, Retail Stores, Magazines IV. Who is competing for the bamboo rod demand? V. Where do you look to purchase when you are interested in buying an item related to fly-fishing, Do you prefer the large retailers such as Orvis or do you look to smaller morespecialized outfits. VI. Advantages/Disadvantages of a bamboo rod from Orvis (or anyone similar) versus an independent maker such as yourself? VII. Describe a typical first time bamboo rod purchaserie: Income Level, Social Class, Occupation, Age, Urban/Rural, Lifestyles, Brand Loyalty, Price Sensitivity.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Apr 13 18:12:14 1998 (205.236.249.185) Subject: Re: Stoner fluting A patent provides protection for 17 years from the date of being grantedin theUS. So you can whistle and flute as much as you like.Cooper wrote: Is anyone milling semi-hollow rods with Winston-like fluting for hisownuse (obviously not for sale, which would infringe the patent, andinfuriateWinston). I invented this a few years ago, on paper, and was verypissed-off to find that Winston (Stoner) had invented that particularwheellong before me. John Cooper (England) from RVenneri@aol.com Mon Apr 13 18:51:44 1998 Subject: Re: Handles/cork reelseats Rob,I have not made a hooded seat as of yet but am willing to try. Why don'tyousend me a drawing or a sample set and I will see what I can do.Bob V Venneri's Custom Components21 Chuck Hill RoadSaugerties N Y 12477914 246 5882 from bairdart@burgoyne.com Mon Apr 13 19:31:50 1998 Subject: Re: Senate fly rod Don, Your description is right on the mark. Thank you for the reply. Bob B. flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>To list, I would like to know if anyone has any info on a "Senate" flyRO>rod, 9' three piece, w/ 2 tips. Any help would be appreciated. ThanksRO>Bob B. Bob, The Sinclair restoration book has a H-I Senate rod listed during the1930's. Spec's are listed as round cane, NPB reelseat, NPB ferrules withrolled welts. Agate stripper and tungsten steel snake guides. Green/goldwraps and broad green bands on butt & mid. Gold intermediates. Cost newwas $12. Sound close? Don Burns from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 13 20:06:46 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A6D318500C2; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 19:07:31 MDT Subject: Re: Handles At 08:23 PM 4/13/98 +0100, you wrote: I was looking at one of Tom Moran's very nice handles the other day. Itfeatures inset bamboo strips (running fore 'n aft) in an otherwise all corkhandle filler: these to take the pressure from the reel bands, and toprevent the bands from biting into the cork. Does anyone have any advicetooffer on the making and fitting of these two bamboo strips. The corks on the same handle were also nicely shaped (milled/sanded) toaccommodate the reel foot. I've tried to do this on my own cork fillers,but end up tearing the cork. Can anyone offer insight on the best way toachieve the shape. Tom's were very accurate, and very smooth, andclearly(unless he drinks less than me) the result of machine work (maybe a veryhigh speed miller with fine sandpaper insteed of a cutter). Tom spent some time at Thomas and Thomas, but I belive the rod I sawpre- dates that period. John Cooper (England) John;I just finished shaping a cork grip yesterday and I started out with theSupr-sander that Jerry mentioned( look in the tools list in Rodmakers) Iwent thru the three grits you get with it and they rough shaped the cofkvery quickly, then I followed up with sandpaper down to 400 grit. I useemery cloth in medium and fine first as they seem to last longer, then goto 220 and 400. Sanding belts for a belt sander work well,too. I've triedrasps and they work o.k., but anything like a woodturning chisel will justblow your cork apart. My .02.John Channer from anglport@con2.com Mon Apr 13 20:11:35 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA25147 for Subject: Re: Ferrule Producers Jon,I used to deal directly with Rodon in Newark (NJ) and Ron (I think it wasBensley) then sold the business to Cortland (up by you). If they don't MAKEthem they must have farmed the job out. BTW, Rodon's Super-z males wereINCREDIBLY oversized. I can't TELL you how long I spent reducing theirdiameter to fit their females. I would buy ANYBODY's that were closer tospec if they were quality ferrules. Art At 04:52 PM 4/13/98 +0000, you wrote:I was wondering who manufactures ferrules (in mass quantities). I am not curious who resales them. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks in advance. from anglport@con2.com Mon Apr 13 20:30:34 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA26843 for Subject: Re: Handles Jon,Just saw one of his lovely rods this week for the first time. If it's anyconsolation, there are now two of us who can't figure how he does that!I'vebeen mulling it over for about 2 or 3 days; if I experience an epiphany I'llget back to you. Anyone else?Art At 08:23 PM 4/13/98 +0100, you wrote: I was looking at one of Tom Moran's very nice handles the other day. Itfeatures inset bamboo strips (running fore 'n aft) in an otherwise all corkhandle filler: John Cooper (England) from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 13 21:57:35 1998 Subject: RE:Re: Senate fly rod RO>Don, Your description is right on the mark. Thank you for the reply. BobB. Bob, Not mine, Michael Sinclair's - from his "Bamboo Rod RestorationHandbook". Also, sounds like the quality of one of my dad's old Montague Sunbeams.They didn't even bother to plane/sand the cane's enamel away - hence the"round" cane. Don B. from FLYROD777@aol.com Mon Apr 13 22:47:29 1998 Subject: Montague Rod Info Needed Need help. Picked up a Montague Fly rod to restore for a customer tonight.It is a 1940 version of the"Flash". It is 9' and in good shape. Does anyoneknow what type of glue they used than and opinions as to fish it or not. Oneferrule will need replacement on the butt section. Yellow brass cracked. Canthese ferrules still be purchased? Origional price was $6.25 and my bestguess is was in the medium to low range. Any suggestions, ideasopinions? Mark Hallowell847-688-1330 from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 13 23:06:24 1998 Subject: Re: Stoner fluting In a message dated 4/13/98 3:46:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jcooper@interalpha.co.uk writes: Is anyone milling semi-hollow rods with Winston-like fluting for hisownuse (obviously not for sale, which would infringe the patent, andinfuriateWinston). The patent was from 1951, and all rights have long since expired. Whichmeans you can make the fluted rods for sale legally. I talked to a patentlawyer about this - No, I wasn't thinking of selling fluted rods, I wastryingto locate the patent and the subject of me making them legally came up.In fact, if the patent is current, you cannot even make them just for yourself without paying the patent holder for the privilege of doing so. Darryl Hayashida from SBDunn@aol.com Tue Apr 14 00:25:31 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order Me too. from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 14 00:29:11 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4738600C8; Mon, 13 Apr 1998 23:30:27 MDT Subject: Re: Montague Rod Info Needed At 11:46 PM 4/13/98 EDT, you wrote:Need help. Picked up a Montague Fly rod to restore for a customertonight.It is a 1940 version of the"Flash". It is 9' and in good shape. Does anyoneknow what type of glue they used than and opinions as to fish it or not. Oneferrule will need replacement on the butt section. Yellow brass cracked.Canthese ferrules still be purchased? Origional price was $6.25 and my bestguess is was in the medium to low range. Any suggestions, ideasopinions? Mark Hallowell847-688-1330 Mark;The biggest favor you can do yourself is to get a copy of MichaelSinclair's " Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook", it is a must have foranyonerestoring/refinishing production rods.I doubt that you will be able to findany original brass ferrules any more, but Anglers Workshop sells chromeplated brass ones cheap, replace both of them.If you can't see any purpleglue lines from recorinol glue then it is probably glued withurea-formaldehyde(Urac or Casco Resin glue)Unfortuneatly, it will cost yourcustomer more to have this rod refinished, even if you don't replace theferrules, than it is worth, even if he could sell it, a refinished Flash ismaybe worth $100. 9' production rods are not worth much these days andmostof the dealers won't even take them.Another.02 fromJohn Channer from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 14 01:33:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3902020136; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 00:34:56 MDT Subject: taper suggestion Guys;I hope this doesn't sound like a complaint, because it isn't, I reallyappreciate the tapers that have been posted on the list, they are veryinformative, but I would like to suggest that when an old rod is measuredthat the measurements be taken with the rod assembled and starting atthetip. There have been some tapers posted with the numbers going from thebutt forward and some starting over at each ferrule and I am never sure ifI am getting them right when I enter them into Hexrod.I am sure this willmake things a little easier for everyone. Thanks again to all those thathave gone to the trouble to post tapers.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 14 06:37:27 1998 Subject: RE:Montague Rod Info Needed RO>Need help. Picked up a Montague Fly rod to restore for a customertonight.RO>It is a 1940 version of the"Flash". It is 9' and in good shape. DoesanyonRO>know what type of glue they used than and opinions as to fish it or not. OnRO>ferrule will need replacement on the butt section. Yellow brasscracked. CRO>these ferrules still be purchased? Origional price was $6.25 and mybestRO>guess is was in the medium to low range. Any suggestions, ideasopinions? RO>Mark HallowellRO>847-688-1330 Mark, I've seen some late-era (1950's?) Montagues with purple glue lines(resorcinol glue), but most of the earlier rods must've used hide glue.I'd repair a delamination in a Montague with Titebond II glue. As tofishing with a Montague - there's a few good ones and there's some#%$#@%$#%$#. The only way to get a new ferrule that exactly matches the Montague'sstyle would be to steal one off a junker rod. Finding a undamagedferrule will be hard, most of them seem to have cracks. You might wantto epoxy the old one on and overwrap it with thread. If you do all theferrules it won't look bad. If you want a cheap replacement ferrule, the Ni-plated brass ferrules onthe market are of a different shape and you'll find that you'll need tobuild up the male ferrule's cane with some thread. Not a good solution,IMHO. I've been looking for a source of Montague ferrules and have never foundone. Don Burns from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Apr 14 06:45:02 1998 Subject: RE: Stoner fluting John,I'm not sure but I think his patent has expired.So flute away! -----Original Message-----From: Cooper [SMTP:jcooper@interalpha.co.uk]Sent: Monday, April 13, 1998 2:21 PM Subject: Stoner fluting Is anyone milling semi-hollow rods with Winston-like fluting for hisownuse (obviously not for sale, which would infringe the patent, andinfuriateWinston). I invented this a few years ago, on paper, and was verypissed-off to find that Winston (Stoner) had invented that particularwheellong before me. John Cooper (England) from bairdart@burgoyne.com Tue Apr 14 07:55:57 1998 Subject: Re: Senate fly rod Don, The Senate I have is very well built. The round comes from beingmilled, not leaving the enamel intact. All of the nickle silver appts. arevery well done. Some even have some engraving. As for the overall quality,Iwould say it is a far cry from the many H-I's that i have ever seen andworked on. Bob B. flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>To list, I would like to know if anyone has any info on a "Senate" flyRO>rod, 9' three piece, w/ 2 tips. Any help would be appreciated. ThanksRO>Bob B. Bob, The Sinclair restoration book has a H-I Senate rod listed during the1930's. Spec's are listed as round cane, NPB reelseat, NPB ferrules withrolled welts. Agate stripper and tungsten steel snake guides. Green/goldwraps and broad green bands on butt & mid. Gold intermediates. Cost newwas $12. Sound close? Don Burns from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 08:57:30 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Swelled butt forms Tom and Harry,Is it possible to reposition the strip into the deeper part of theform and derive a swelled butt that way? Or ,if there's no more room ontheform do the strips up to the swell and reset the forms? It would be alittletricky at first but I bet it could be done. Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 08:57:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit John,This farm boy lost 5 in a corn picker some years ago so I take my shoesoffif I need to count above 6(5+ the paw). I'm considering a lathe - shouldtakecare of the other 5. I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ride horsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass. IguessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman. from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 14 09:27:45 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit At 09:56 AM 4/14/98 EDT, you wrote:John,This farm boy lost 5 in a corn picker some years ago so I take my shoesoffif I need to count above 6(5+ the paw). I'm considering a lathe - shouldtakecare of the other 5. I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ridehorsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass. IguessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman. Wow! I'm only missing the end of one (joiner) and boogered up another(table saw). Feeling lucky I can still count to twenty-one.Gary from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 09:33:23 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Ferrule Producers Jon,Try Bailey Woods'. His address has changed and you'll have to get it offthe rodmakers web page.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 09:33:39 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Montague Rod Info Needed Mark,I have to agree with John-also, back in '48 I bought a couple ofMontagues(Rapidans, I think) and 20 years later I let my niece use 'em andthey both snapped above the ferrule. This may have been due to poor careon mypart but I thought I'd caution you for what it's worth.Regards,Hank. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 14 09:40:47 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Senate fly rod RO>Don, The Senate I have is very well built. The round comes from beingRO>milled, not leaving the enamel intact. All of the nickle silver appts. areRO>very well done. Some even have some engraving. As for the overallquality, IRO>would say it is a far cry from the many H-I's that i have ever seen andRO>worked on. Bob B. Bob, Good to hear. I don't know if you've got NS ferrules - for your sake I hope so. Butsome of the H-I rods had workable plated ferrules, much thicker brassthan the paper- thin brass on many Montague rods. Don from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Apr 14 09:50:42 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit FISHWOOL wrote:I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ride horsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass.I guessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman.Hank,As long as you don't have your life defiled by anything as insipid as"meaningful employment", I'd say you're one of the winners.A few of us were standing on the porch of the Clubhouse one night ofthe last Grayling get-together, and the talk turned to getting out ofthe rat-race. (I don't know if you've noticed, but the rat is gettingfaster and smarter these days.) Anyway, it was interesting to note thatnot only do these people all share a love of cane rods, but they allhave well formulated escape plans. I'm not clever enough by half to haveplanned the way they had, but I won't drop in the harness, either. I'mgoin' over the wall...Reed from anglport@con2.com Tue Apr 14 10:22:43 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA23890 for Subject: Re: Router bit Hank,I had a real eye-opener a few years back. I had always assumed that thosetypes of errors were made by idiots (myself included--I almost took afingeroff in a printing press when in college), until a friend of mine, the mostcareful man I ever knew, took most of 4 fingers off in a table saw he hadused successfully for over 40 years! My first thought was; It really CANhappen to anyone.Be well,Art ps: You're absolutely right about that lathe. I've heard all sorts of storesabout how you can tell machnists by their lack of a right index-finger- tipdue to flicking a bit off a turning piece of work. At 09:56 AM 4/14/98 EDT, you wrote:John,This farm boy lost 5 in a corn picker some years ago so I take my shoesoffif I need to count above 6(5+ the paw). I'm considering a lathe - shouldtakecare of the other 5. I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ride horsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass. IguessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman. from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Tue Apr 14 10:23:37 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Tue, 14 Apr 98 11:23:04 EDT Subject: hollow-built rods A (perhaps) elementary question: How does one prevent the fluting of a hollow-built rod from fillingup with glue? (Which, I would submit, adds mass and therefore inertiawithout significantly increasing he modulus of elasticity necessary toovercome the additional mass.)Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 14 10:30:22 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms Hank - It might be possible to play around with the forms as you suggest,butwhere you have a steep taper in a short distance, it wouldn't take much ofanerror to give you an open glue seam. Most, if not all of the rods withextremebutt swells I have seen have been made with a machine, and that is why Iadvised Harry to proceed with a bit of caution. It is a topic that interestsme, however, and one of these days I am going to do some experimentation. from dhaftel@att.com Tue Apr 14 10:30:38 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 11:30:27-0400 Subject: RE: Router bit/rat race 4.0.995.52 Reed, This rat is stuck deep in the maze, no cheese in sight!!! I'd like tohear some of those plans! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: Reed F. Curry [SMTP:rcurry@top.monad.net]Sent: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 10:52 AM Subject: Re: Router bit FISHWOOL wrote:I still play the guitar, tie flies, fly fish, ride horsesas well as plane a few rods between training beagles and mowing grass.IguessI can't complain-too damn busy.Hank (I forgot to let go of the corn stalk) Woolman.Hank,As long as you don't have your life defiled by anything as insipid as"meaningful employment", I'd say you're one of the winners.A few of us were standing on the porch of the Clubhouse one night ofthe last Grayling get-together, and the talk turned to getting out ofthe rat-race. (I don't know if you've noticed, but the rat is gettingfaster and smarter these days.) Anyway, it was interesting to note thatnot only do these people all share a love of cane rods, but they allhave well formulated escape plans. I'm not clever enough by half to haveplanned the way they had, but I won't drop in the harness, either. I'mgoin' over the wall...Reed from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 14 10:42:29 1998 Subject: Re: hollow-built rods In a message dated 4/14/98 3:28:31 PM, you wrote: Mark, This is anything but an elementary question. Take a look at thearticleon Powell in issue #1 of the Bamboo Rod. Look closely at the picture of thesemi-hollow cross section. It is fuzzy, but it looks to me like the cavityis1/4 filled with glue. Chris Bogart taught me a technique of using Epon epoxy, an scrubbing thestrips with a toothbrush to remove most of the glue. We glued up such arodwith great success. A test piece we glued and then split showed noencroachment into the cavity from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 14 11:18:57 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms In a message dated 4/13/98 11:22:26 AM Pacific Daylight Time,fbcwin@fsbnet.com writes: I'm making a new set of forms and would like to build ina taper for swelled butts. Do any of you have anysuggestions for dimensions? I'm just guessing, but wouldthink about .150 to .225 over a space of 5 inches. Therehas to be someone with better ideas than a guess. I took a look at my Colorado Bootstrap forms last night. It hasa short section near one end with set screws 2 1/2 inchesapart instead of 5 inches so that you can do a swelled butt.It won't go from .150 to .225 in 5 inches. I was able to make it go from .150 to .210, and I possibly could make it swell more, but I don't do swelled butts and I didn't want to permanently tweak my forms. There was another interesting way to swell a butt that I saw. Instead of extra bamboo in the swell, it had rosewood inserts between the splines. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 14 11:24:24 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit/rat race In a message dated 4/14/98 8:35:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time,dhaftel@att.comwrites: This rat is stuck deep in the maze, no cheese in sight!!! I'd like tohear some of those plans! "The only thing about being in the rat race is that if you win,all you proven is that your a bigger rat than everyone else." Can't remember who originally said it, but the quote sticks in my memory. Darryl from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Tue Apr 14 11:25:37 1998 11:25:32-0500 11:25:31-0500 11:25:30-0500 Subject: RE:Heddon Parts Hello Bret.Thank you very much for the information about Leon.I will try tonight to contact him. Again, thank you.Sincerly,Jon Poling At 04:55 AM 4/11/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Jon,RO>There was a gentleman named Bernard Hills that had bought up all ofHeddonsRO>stuff when he was working for Heddon and he had a lot of that kind ofstuff.RO>Unfortunately Bernard passed away a few years ago and Leon Hansonbought allRO>the stuff that Bernard had. Leon lives in Plymouth Michigan and I usedtoRO>have his phone # but I can't find it anymore. I am sure if you callRO>information at either 248-555- 1212 or 313-555-1212 you could gethis#. IRO>not sure of the prefix as they have changed them around as of late. IfyouRO>don't find Leons # let me know and I will ask my brother to get it foryou aRO>he lives close to him. Or possibly Wayne or Ron Barch has it.RO>Bret Bernard Hills was Heddon's last head rodmaker. I too would be interested in that phone #. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com orcanerods@aol.com from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Tue Apr 14 11:32:43 1998 (METDST) Subject: Warning - Bad preserver Hi european rodmakers! Warning - i think the color preserver from "Elettra-Sport" (Italy) KK 1is (sorry) really sh....!I (try) use it two or tree times, but it never works fine. It`s tothick,like a soup. I tried it with acetone as thinner, but it worked only forseveral minutes - then it was thicker than before! Regards Stefan from thramer@presys.com Tue Apr 14 11:40:57 1998 0000 Subject: Montague Ferrules I ran into the Montague ferrule problem 8-10 yrs ago. It was animportant rod for the family so I machined a set out of nickel silverbar stock. The ferrules were designed to be easily made with tube anddrawing, they were quite intricate to reproduce. And expensive.A.J.Thramer from bdavid@umich.edu Tue Apr 14 11:45:46 1998 with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 12:45:44 -0400 Subject: Re: RE:Heddon Parts LAA11523 John, Here is Leon's Number Leon F Hanson Phone : 313-459-2993 Our area code has since changed to 734... But i think that 313 may stillwork.. Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------David A. BerrieOracle Programmer/DBAUniversity of Michigan Medical CenterAnn Arbor, MI 48109-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jon Poling 04/14 1:25 PM >>>Hello Bret.Thank you very much for the information about Leon.I will try tonight to contact him. Again, thank you.Sincerly,Jon Poling At 04:55 AM 4/11/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Jon,RO>There was a gentleman named Bernard Hills that had bought up all ofHeddonsRO>stuff when he was working for Heddon and he had a lot of that kind ofstuff.RO>Unfortunately Bernard passed away a few years ago and Leon Hansonbought allRO>the stuff that Bernard had. Leon lives in Plymouth Michigan and I usedtoRO>have his phone # but I can't find it anymore. I am sure if you callRO>information at either 248-555- 1212 or 313-555-1212 you could gethis#. IRO>not sure of the prefix as they have changed them around as of late. IfyouRO>don't find Leons # let me know and I will ask my brother to get it foryou aRO>he lives close to him. Or possibly Wayne or Ron Barch has it.RO>Bret Bernard Hills was Heddon's last head rodmaker. I too would be interested in that phone #. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com orcanerods@aol.com from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Tue Apr 14 12:40:37 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Anglers Workshop Does anyone have a current URL or a phone number for Anglers Workshop. Thanks Mick from anglport@con2.com Tue Apr 14 13:11:01 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07155 for Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop Mick,www.anglersworkshop.com siteinfo@anglersworkshop.com e- mail360-225-9445 for orders360-225-6359 cust. serv.These are from '97 catalog. Hope you weren't asking 'cause you tried themand they're dead!Use 'em in good health!Art At 10:05 AM 4/14/98 -0800, you wrote: Does anyone have a current URL or a phone number for Anglers Workshop. Thanks Mick from saweiss@flash.net Tue Apr 14 13:39:05 1998 Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop ----Original Message----- Subject: Anglers Workshop Does anyone have a current URL or a phone number for Anglers Workshop. Mick,I recently got their March catalog.http://www.anglersworkshop.comtel: 1(360)225-6359 Steve from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 14 14:29:05 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit/rat race In a message dated 4/14/98 9:25:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,SalarFly@aol.comwrites: "The only thing about being in the rat race is that if you win,all you proven is that your a bigger rat than everyone else." That's what I get for rushing and not reading what I wrote. I shouldhave written: "The only thing about being in the rat race is that if you win,all you've proven is that you're a bigger rat than everyone else."^^^^^^^ ^^^^^^^^I need a proper usage checker along with a spell checker. Darryl from fer@surfplanet.com Tue Apr 14 15:41:12 1998 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id UAA14774 for; Tue, 14 Apr 1998 20:42:58 GMT Subject: Re: Warning - Bad preserver gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: Hi european rodmakers! Warning - i think the color preserver from "Elettra-Sport" (Italy) KK 1is (sorry) really sh....!I (try) use it two or tree times, but it never works fine. It`s tothick,like a soup. I tried it with acetone as thinner, but it worked only forseveral minutes - then it was thicker than before! Regards Stefan Thanks Stefan, this is Fernando Rada from Spain. It's funny, do you knowwhat KK means in spanish?Regards. from mcoy@sduhsd.k12.ca.us Tue Apr 14 15:57:33 1998 R8.00.00) Subject: Re[2]: Anglers Workshop --simple boundary Thanks all.My catalog seems to have disappeared. As you might guess my wife won't"fessup". Maybe I should consider making the credit card bill disappear too. Mick ____________________Reply Separator____________________Subject: Re: Anglers WorkshopAuthor: ----Original Message----- Subject: Anglers Workshop Does anyone have a current URL or a phone number for Anglers Workshop. Mick,I recently got their March catalog.http://www.anglersworkshop.comtel: 1(360)225-6359 Steve --simple boundary (ccMailLink to SMTP R8.00.00); Mon, 13 Apr 98 23:44:25 -0800 intergate.sduhsd.k12.ca.us (8.8.5/8.8.0) with ESMTP id LAA23634 for Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop --simple boundary-- from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Tue Apr 14 16:18:41 1998 16:18:38-0500 16:18:37-0500 16:18:37-0500 Subject: RE:Heddon Parts Thank you very much, Dave!Jon Poling At 12:45 PM 4/14/98 -0400, you wrote:John, Here is Leon's Number Leon F Hanson Phone : 313-459-2993 Our area code has since changed to 734... But i think that 313 may stillwork.. Dave --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----------------David A. BerrieOracle Programmer/DBAUniversity of Michigan Medical CenterAnn Arbor, MI 48109-------------------------------------------------- ----------------------------------------------------------- Jon Poling 04/14 1:25 PM >>>Hello Bret.Thank you very much for the information about Leon.I will try tonight to contact him. Again, thank you.Sincerly,Jon Poling At 04:55 AM 4/11/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Jon,RO>There was a gentleman named Bernard Hills that had bought up all ofHeddonsRO>stuff when he was working for Heddon and he had a lot of that kind ofstuff.RO>Unfortunately Bernard passed away a few years ago and Leon Hansonbought allRO>the stuff that Bernard had. Leon lives in Plymouth Michigan and Iused toRO>have his phone # but I can't find it anymore. I am sure if you callRO>information at either 248-555- 1212 or 313-555-1212 you couldget his#. IRO>not sure of the prefix as they have changed them around as of late. IfyouRO>don't find Leons # let me know and I will ask my brother to get it foryou aRO>he lives close to him. Or possibly Wayne or Ron Barch has it.RO>Bret Bernard Hills was Heddon's last head rodmaker. I too would be interested in that phone #. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com orcanerods@aol.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 14 18:40:07 1998 Wed, 15 Apr 1998 07:38:59 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms On Tue, 14 Apr 1998, TSmithwick wrote: Hank - It might be possible to play around with the forms as you suggest,butwhere you have a steep taper in a short distance, it wouldn't take muchof anerror to give you an open glue seam. Most, if not all of the rods withextremebutt swells I have seen have been made with a machine, and that is why Iadvised Harry to proceed with a bit of caution. It is a topic thatinterestsme, however, and one of these days I am going to do someexperimentation. The last rod I made I swelled the butt just by winding out my wooden form untill I got the right taper. I had to make a fine adjustment to the form involving adding an extra 2 adjustment screws between the normal ones at 5" centres but that's the nice thing about making them myself.Worked fine and there are no gaps as a result. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 14 18:45:44 1998 199819:45:40 -0400 Subject: Re: hollow-built rods Mark That question was answered at Roscoe by Tom Smithwick doing a joint demo of hollowing and gluing and then split the test section open.If you do it right - it does not fill up. Also Per Brandon has a similarsection he cut open that he displays. Chris A (perhaps) elementary question: How does one prevent the fluting of a hollow-built rod from fillingup with glue? (Which, I would submit, adds mass and therefore inertiawithout significantly increasing he modulus of elasticity necessary toovercome the additional mass.)Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from bairdart@burgoyne.com Tue Apr 14 18:49:21 1998 Subject: Re: Senate fly rod Don, The ferrules, wind check and the reel seat, are all NS. Like I said itsnotlike any H-I that i have ever seen. Bob B. flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>Don, The Senate I have is very well built. The round comes frombeingRO>milled, not leaving the enamel intact. All of the nickle silver appts.areRO>very well done. Some even have some engraving. As for the overallquality,IRO>would say it is a far cry from the many H-I's that i have ever seenandRO>worked on. Bob B. Bob, Good to hear. I don't know if you've got NS ferrules - for your sake I hope so. Butsome of the H-I rods had workable plated ferrules, much thicker brassthan the paper- thin brass on many Montague rods. Don from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 19:06:57 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit Reed,I'm not sure I'm out of the rat race. Marcia and I are running 5 4session fly fishing schools this month and guiding in between. I think wehave2 days in the month not spoken for. I'm not complaining 'cause that's whatwedo. It helps to keep the wolf from the door.May's just as bad but June gets better- TTBBQ!Regards,Hank.P.S. Hope we'll see you at Greyrock. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 14 19:07:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Anglers Workshop Mick and Art,I used 'em this morning and they worked-I just got the '98 cataloguewiththe same numbers.Hank. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Tue Apr 14 19:29:57 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms Tom, Hank, Tony, and others -- Thanks for the help!Harry from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 14 19:32:44 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Warning - Bad preserver Fernando,Watch your mouth. KK from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 14 19:32:54 1998 Subject: Re: Senate fly rod RO>Don, The ferrules, wind check and the reel seat, are all NS. Like I saiditsRO>like any H-I that i have ever seen. Bob B. What the heck - must of slipped out the back door? I've got a '20's or early '30's 7'-something H-I (3/1) that's aninteresting rod too. Quality isn't as good as yours, but how many 7'4" -7'6" three piece rods did H-I make? The 3 rod sections all differ by +/-1/4" and so I know mine's got normal H-I quality built-in. Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 14 19:34:08 1998 Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop RO>Mick and Art,RO> I used 'em this morning and they worked-I just got the '98 cataloguewitRO>the same numbers.RO> Hank. Am I the last one without the '98 catalog? Don B. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 14 19:43:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit/rat race One suggestion I can make to you guys is don't open a fly shop and thinkthisis a dream come true as it will surely turn into a nightmare. I tried itbecause I wanted to get out of construction and own a fly shop boy what amessthat business turned out to be.Bret from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue Apr 14 21:10:48 1998 Subject: Montague Rod Help Just want to say thanks to all that helped me. It will help me in myrecommendation. Mark Hallowell from richjez@enteract.com Tue Apr 14 22:07:06 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Router bit Talking about the TBBQ, when is it. I bug ate my hard drive last week andthe drive had to be reformatted to save it. All was lost. If somone lets me know whne it is, I will make it again. Rich Jezioro At 08:06 PM 4/14/98 EDT, you wrote:Reed,I'm not sure I'm out of the rat race. Marcia and I are running 5 4session fly fishing schools this month and guiding in between. I think wehave2 days in the month not spoken for. I'm not complaining 'cause that's whatwedo. It helps to keep the wolf from the door.May's just as bad but June gets better- TTBBQ!Regards,Hank.P.S. Hope we'll see you at Greyrock. from richjez@enteract.com Tue Apr 14 22:07:13 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Quick Survey if You Have Time? 1. My first fly rod was a telescoping metal one. My mother got me a heddon from a garage sale. It was a major improvement. I bought a fenwickgraphiteand is was nice but the bamboo has a much more sensitive feel. I fish forrelaxation and there are podns with bluegills that are nearby. Withbamboo,I can feel thier fins working. No so with graphite or my metal one. 2 I am not sure if you are asking my perception ot that of others. Formyself. I have tried a number of rods at grayrock and discovered the rengeof differences that can be made into a bamboo rod. I like that I can make arod to suit my tastes and situation. As for others precptions, they seem to see bamboo as quaint but old. New,even the hexagraphite is good and cool. 3. Since I cannot affore new ones, garage sales, flea markets, and auctionsare my sources. I bought one at a gun show too. 4. I am not sure what you are asking. If it is what other materials carcompeting with bamboo, the large manfuactures have the advertizingmoney consumer who is taught and believes newer, bigger, faster, is better. 5. I avoid the big name houses when possible. Use smaller places like likelocal stores of mail order like anglers workshop. 6.The flexability of the indenpendent maker is an advantage. Orvis couldprice a rod lower and still make money buit they have the name and yuppiedollars so as PT Barnum said, There is....... 7. You got me here. I haven't sold rods and am the only one of my friendswho like bambee, so I don't know. Rich Jezioro At 07:10 PM 4/13/98 +0000, you wrote:I hope some of you will take the time to respond to this short survey. A buddy of mine and I are in a consumer behavior class in which we have to write a paper on a product and target market. Since there is no public primary research available, I thought I might do some of my own with the help of you all. Thanks in advance for taking the time to respond. I. What motivates consumers to purchase a bamboo fly fishing rod? ie: Function, Aesthetic,Social,and Situational II. What are the attitudes or perceptions associated with individuals fly- fishing with bamboo? III. How are individuals purchasing bamboo fly fishing rods?ie: Shows, Retail Stores, Magazines IV. Who is competing for the bamboo rod demand? V. Where do you look to purchase when you are interested in buying an item related to fly-fishing, Do you prefer the large retailers such as Orvis or do you look to smaller morespecialized outfits. VI. Advantages/Disadvantages of a bamboo rod from Orvis (or anyone similar) versus an independent maker such as yourself? VII. Describe a typical first time bamboo rod purchaserie: Income Level, Social Class, Occupation, Age, Urban/Rural, Lifestyles, Brand Loyalty, Price Sensitivity.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Apr 15 00:29:56 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms In a message dated 98-04-14 12:25:03 EDT, you write: Darryl Is this the guy who carries those rosewood splines all the way back to thereel seat? Goes to a lot of shows? Interesting. Davy from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 15 08:06:41 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id JAA25598 for Subject: Re:Mystery rod pix Bret,Did you ever get those pictures? I sent them last Weds. If they promptmorequestions, fire away.Art from bairdart@burgoyne.com Wed Apr 15 09:46:17 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms Darryl and Davy, In my rod collection i have several rods built by George A.Burtis. His rods have the most exaggerated swelled butt section i haveeverseen. He would use mahogany inserts, presumably to cut the extra weight.Theyare very striking in appearance. If you ever see one you will never confuseitwith any other makers rods. Bob B. Ragnarig wrote: In a message dated 98-04-14 12:25:03 EDT, you write: Instead of extra bamboo in the swell, it had rosewood insertsbetween the splines. Darryl Is this the guy who carries those rosewood splines all the way back tothereel seat? Goes to a lot of shows? Interesting. Davy for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:45:54 Subject: Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! Jerry,I believe it's time you started a weekly plug for your web site. Itcouldbe of great help to many. http://home1.gte.net/foster/index.htmGary At 09:21 AM 4/16/98 -0400, you wrote:I would appreciate anyone providing an address to reach Andy Royer. Thanks, Seymour Birnbaum SalarFly wrote: Last year I bought a bundle of cane from Andy Royerthat I didn't think was top quality. The appearancewas great, but the power fiber layer was thin. I wrotein to this list giving my opinion back then. I just got a few culms of his latest shipment, andthey are excellent! They are about 3" at the base,and all of them are still at least 2 1/4" at the topof the culm. And power fiber like you wouldn't believe!Most of the culms have at least 1/4 of an inch thickpower fiber at the base (13/32" total wall thickness)and the power fibers are still 1/8 of an inch (7/32"wall thickness) at the top of the culm. I could tellright away these culms were loaded with power fiber from the heft when I first picked them up. Appearanceis excellent also, light straw colored, with only a fewwater marks, and no leaf scars. There is a little moldat the ends of a couple of the culms, but it is minor. I highly reccommend Andy Royer's latest batch ofcane, and I am going to order some more to putaway to season. Let's hope he will be able tocontinue to supply Tonkin Cane like this inthe future. Good job Andy! Darryl Hayashida from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Apr 16 08:50:27 1998 Subject: Guide spacing for "Sir Darryl" special I wasn't able to find guide spacing for the "Sir Darryl" special in thearchives. Would someone be willing to provide it? Thanks in advance.Jerry Snider from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 16 08:53:22 1998 Subject: error See I can't even get it right!http://1.gtenet/jfoster/index.htmGary from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 16 08:58:53 1998 Subject: Re: error At 09:55 AM 4/16/98 -0400, you wrote:See I can't even get it right!http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htmGary I give up!!! from jfoster@gte.net Thu Apr 16 09:09:24 1998 Subject: Re: error Garyhttp://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Jerry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 16 09:35:00 1998 Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:33:52 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Recycled Shavings On Wed, 15 Apr 1998, C.J. Wohlford wrote: This might seem like a strange question but has anyone used theirshavings for mulch or compost in their garden? Have a ton of shavings(figuratively speaking of course) and was thinking of putting it to gooduse. Does it break down quickly or does it take some time? Will morethan likely give it a try but any insight would be appreciated. Thanksin advance. Chris Wohlford The shavings make great compost. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 10:15:59 1998 Subject: Re: Guide spacing for "Sir Darryl" special In a message dated 4/16/98 6:56:34 AM Pacific Daylight Time,sniderja@email.uc.edu writes: I wasn't able to find guide spacing for the "Sir Darryl" special in thearchives. Would someone be willing to provide it? Thanks in advance. I use the guide program that comes with Wayne's book. If you don't haveit let me know, and I'll run it for you. Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 10:19:24 1998 Subject: Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! In a message dated 4/16/98 6:50:00 AM Pacific Daylight Time,destinycon@mindspring.com writes: Jerry,I believe it's time you started a weekly plug for your web site. Itcouldbe of great help to many. Good idea since we are getting so many new members. Perhaps MikeBiondo should put it in the "welcome to the list" message everyone getswhen they subscribe. Darryl from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Apr 16 10:48:15 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 16Apr 1998 11:49:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Finish - for Bamboo Rods I use the same varnish I dip in. The stuff is thinner than any epoxy I have ever used. Also, varnish goes tack free is a shorter period of time in my experience. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Thu Apr 16 10:55:52 1998 (4.1/SMI-4.0); Thu, 16 Apr 98 09:39:59 CDT Subject: Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! Darryl sayeth... Good idea since we are getting so many new members. Perhaps MikeBiondo should put it in the "welcome to the list" message everyone getswhen they subscribe. That has been on my to-do list for...oh, about 2 years now. Just ask ChrisBogart!Sorry guys, I really do need to get that welcome message updated. Okay, new goal for myself...I WILL have that welcome message updatedbeforeshowing up at "Rodmakers at Grayrock" & TroutBumBarbeque, or else... Hmmmm...wonder how I can talk my boss into changing my job title, and Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 16 11:20:22 1998 Subject: Re: error Jerry,I guess I'm living proof that a person is still allowed in thecommunityafter they pass the Z in alzheimers. Gary At 08:07 AM 4/16/98 -0500, you wrote:Garyhttp://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Jerry from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Apr 16 11:54:55 1998 Subject: Re: Anglers Workshop No Robert Clarke ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com Subject: Re: Anglers WorkshopDate: Tuesday, April 14, 1998 4:32 PM RO>Mick and Art,RO> I used 'em this morning and they worked-I just got the '98catalogue witRO>the same numbers.RO> Hank. Am I the last one without the '98 catalog? Don B. from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Apr 16 13:08:36 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: Finish I have done several graphite rods and don't really like either Flex Coat (especially the thick stuff). I have had some good luck with the UD40 stuff (2-part). I have also found that a cheap (ie $16) motor and stand to turn the rod is absolutely necessary. I tried the turn every 15 minutes approach and maybe it's just me, but I had trouble sticking to the timer and making it look right. The motor really help during application as well. I also don't like a lot of finish on the wraps, and even the thin flex coat is thick. I have recently purchased some finish from Manhattan Custom tackle which requires several coats but is extremely thin...we'll see how it works. I have also experimented with heating the finish before and after mixing - before is better, otherwise it seems to harden more quickly...you have time to apply at least several guides even if you are slow (in a pot of hot water) and spreading it on aluminum foil before application. Both to help cut down on bubbles. Then again there is always the old butane lighter for that (do not flame directly). can make regardless of whch finish you use. Just my opinions...others may disagree...and I am still learning...but without trying to sound cocky I think my wraps are at least as good asWinston, Sage, et al...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Finish Author: at Tcpgate I can't speak to the bamboo rod but my advice with the graphite is tostay with the tried and true, Flex Coat high build or thin or Clemen'sCrystal coat. I have found that rotating by hand every 15 minutes is enough to producea smooth finish on guides. I would also suggest getting either ofClemen's books, Fiberglass Rod Making or (and preferred) Advanced CustomRod Building. Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello Rod Builders,I know this is a baited question. I refinished a bamboo and used aurethane spar over the entire rod - bamboo as well as thread. I ampretty happy with my handiwork - hey - I have low standards! I am now ready to finish my first graphite rod. A nice little StCroix 7', 3wt, 2 pc. I have read the Skip Morris book and the GarciaBook, but still have those newbie questions lingering. Should I use Gudebrod 5 minute epoxy on the thread wraps? Could Iuse the urethane spar? I don't have a rotating device. I expect torotate manually. If I use 5 min epoxy, it should be dry in 5 minutesat 70 degrees and moderate humidity. Will it sag after 10 - 15minutes? If this goes well, I may have to refinish the bamboo again!!! Thanks in advance,Joe Mulvey from anglport@con2.com Thu Apr 16 13:47:44 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA23607 for Subject: Re: PHY Para taper (Variances) Jerry, I decided to interpolate those missing nos from the nearest availablestations.I figured that 35 3/4" is 5 3/4 away from 30" and 35" is 5" away from 30".If the rise from 30 to 35 3/4 is .009, I can set up the proportion: 23 20 -- --4 4------ = -------.09 X (Actually, 4 3/4 is to a .09 spread as 5 is to a proportional spread) This gives a difference of .0078 or .008 for our purposes. Thus, the 35"station should be.193 + .008 or .201.Using the same method with 50 3/4" and 55", I got .237 for a 51"approximation. ( I tried to get a 50" setting as that's where the formswould be set anyway but extrapolating into the ferrule area gave whatseemedto be an unacceptable dimension of .233, given the one above the ferrule (5" away) is also .233.)I think it's generally safe to use this method since the tapers arenecessarily linear BETWEEN any 2 stations as nothing can tweak the formsbetween the screws.Hope this helps (and hope I didn't tell you more that you really wanted toknow), Art BOTTOM LNE: 35" is .201, 51" is .237 At 06:05 PM 4/15/98 -0400, you wrote:Jerry, I'm sorry too. That rod went back to its owner last night. There's nore-miking it now! regardsArt from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Thu Apr 16 13:50:16 1998 (METDST) Subject: New tapers needed Hi rodmakers! Has anyone a taper for a 3 pc / 6.6 ft/#5 or 6 rod?also same weight/sections for a 6.3 ft?Action medium to fast Thanks for any help Stefan from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 14:50:47 1998 Subject: Re: New tapers needed In a message dated 4/16/98 11:54:40 AM Pacific Daylight Time,gespliesst@bluewin.ch writes: Has anyone a taper for a 3 pc / 6.6 ft/#5 or 6 rod?also same weight/sections for a 6.3 ft?Action medium to fast Learn about stress curves. You will be able to develop any taper you want. I can develop the tapers for you, but be aware - what I like in an action you might not. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 14:51:46 1998 Subject: Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! In a message dated 4/16/98 6:29:20 AM Pacific Daylight Time,birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu writes: I would appreciate anyone providing an address to reach Andy Royer. His email address is:royera@sprynet.com from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 16 15:14:49 1998 Subject: Re: Quick Survey if You Have Time? I. What motivates consumers to purchase a bamboo fly fishing rod? ie: Function, Aesthetic,Social,and Situational I don't know, I have never bought a bamboo rod. I can only conjectureon why others would. The reason I wouldn't buy a cane rod is cost,but if a new graphite and a new cane rod cost the same I would buy bamboo. II. What are the attitudes or perceptions associated with individuals fly- fishing with bamboo? Depends on the age of the individual, and what they are fishingwith. An old gray haired man with a South Bend or Heddon wouldbe perceived as traditional. A young guy with an Orvis or Winstonwould be perceived as a yuppie. Someone like me, fishing a cane rod he made himself, probably perceived as an anomaly. But in every case someone fishing a bamboo rod is perceived as more committed to the sport, more likely to have been flyfishing longer, and more likely to stay in it. III. How are individuals purchasing bamboo fly fishing rods?ie: Shows, Retail Stores, Magazines I really haven't seen many cane rods purchased. I would guessat a retail store, so that someone could test cast it first beforehe bought it. The ones I've sold were to people I knew, and theysaw the rod and tested it first. IV. Who is competing for the bamboo rod demand? Large manufacturers, Orvis, Winston, T&T, etc. V. Where do you look to purchase when you are interested in buying an item related to fly-fishing, Do you prefer the large retailers such as Orvis or do you look to smaller morespecialized outfits. I am lucky in that I live very close to Bob Marriott's, so I can go lookat and compare flyfishing items. Most of the things I can't get thereare only available through smaller specialized outfits. Orvis doesn'tsell NS ferrules, guides, reel seats etc. anymore. VI. Advantages/Disadvantages of a bamboo rod from Orvis (or anyone similar) versus an independent maker such as yourself? The tapers I use are better than Orvis bamboo rod tapers. Orvis willlikely be in business longer than me, and probably be around tofix rods handed down to grandkids. My rods cost a lot less. VII. Describe a typical first time bamboo rod purchaserie: Income Level, Social Class, Occupation, Age, Urban/Rural, Lifestyles, Brand Loyalty, Price Sensitivity. All the first time bamboo rod purchasers I've seen were the peoplewho bought them from me, and the only reason they bought themwas because they had used one of my rods, liked it and got it alot cheaper than from a retail store. The only thing similar betweenall of them were they were all middle class, and they all flyfished. Darryl Hayashida from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Apr 16 16:17:18 1998 0400 Subject: Re[3]: Finish Actually I meant to say U-40 (as Greg correctly says in another post). I think there may be a couple kinds...I'll check which one I used when I get home tonight (I think it was DuraGloss). One application did it but I didn't find it overly thick (which is why I liked it). Also, the pot of hot water I mention below is what I put the 2 containers of U-40 in for about a half minute prior to mixing to thin the stuff out.After mixing in a plastic cup I VERY briefly put the mixture in the same hot water to eliminate bubbles. It may harden more quickly after doing this but I still found it remained thin long enough to do guides on a rod section. Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re[2]: Finish Author: at Tcpgate I have done several graphite rods and don't really like either Flex Coat (especially the thick stuff). I have had some good luck with the UD40 stuff (2-part). I have also found that a cheap (ie $16) motor and stand to turn the rod is absolutely necessary. I tried the turn every 15 minutes approach and maybe it's just me, but I had trouble sticking to the timer and making it look right. The motor really help during application as well. I also don't like a lot of finish on the wraps, and even the thin flex coat is thick. I have recently purchased some finish from Manhattan Custom tackle which requires several coats but is extremely thin...we'll see how it works. I have also experimented with heating the finish before and after mixing - before is better, otherwise it seems to harden more quickly...you have time to apply at least several guides even if you are slow (in a pot of hot water) and spreading it on aluminum foil before application. Both to help cut down on bubbles. Then again there is always the old butane lighter for that (do not flame directly). can make regardless of whch finish you use. Just my opinions...others may disagree...and I am still learning...but without trying to sound cocky I think my wraps are at least as good asWinston, Sage, et al...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Finish Author: at Tcpgate I can't speak to the bamboo rod but my advice with the graphite is tostay with the tried and true, Flex Coat high build or thin or Clemen'sCrystal coat. I have found that rotating by hand every 15 minutes is enough to producea smooth finish on guides. I would also suggest getting either ofClemen's books, Fiberglass Rod Making or (and preferred) Advanced CustomRod Building. Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello Rod Builders,I know this is a baited question. I refinished a bamboo and used aurethane spar over the entire rod - bamboo as well as thread. I ampretty happy with my handiwork - hey - I have low standards! I am now ready to finish my first graphite rod. A nice little StCroix 7', 3wt, 2 pc. I have read the Skip Morris book and the GarciaBook, but still have those newbie questions lingering. Should I use Gudebrod 5 minute epoxy on the thread wraps? Could Iuse the urethane spar? I don't have a rotating device. I expect torotate manually. If I use 5 min epoxy, it should be dry in 5 minutesat 70 degrees and moderate humidity. Will it sag after 10 - 15minutes? If this goes well, I may have to refinish the bamboo again!!! Thanks in advance,Joe Mulvey from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 16 17:35:59 1998 Subject: Garrison book All, I had a few minutes to kill today and stopped at a local FF shop, theyhave one copy of the Garrison/Carmichael book still in shrink wrap @$75. I believe this is out of print again? If so, I'd pick it up and ship it for cost (don't forget LA county 8.25%sales tax too) plus postage, if someone can't find it elsewhere. CONTACT ME OFF LIST OR YOU GO TO THE END OF THE LINE. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 16 17:37:17 1998 Subject: RE:Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! RO>Hmmmm...wonder how I can talk my boss into changing my job title,and RO>Mike BiondoRO>RODMAKERS Listguy You mean you've got a life beyond the list? Don Burns from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 16 17:41:30 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine In a message dated 98-04-16 00:45:41 EDT, you write: Did you ask when we'd get billed? Don Burns from bob.kossler@TANDEM.com Thu Apr 16 17:57:02 1998 conn01.austx.tandem.com RAA05443 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine I asked when do I get billed and was told that they were installing anaccounting system and the bill would be in the mail. Also, the magazine was supposed to be out in two weeks. That was mid March. Still waiting Bob -----Original Message-----From: Canerods [SMTP:Canerods@aol.com]Sent: Thursday, April 16, 1998 3:41 PM Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine In a message dated 98-04-16 00:45:41 EDT, you write: Just got off of the phone with Mark Metcalf.He wants me to let this list know that thesecond issue is in the mail and all whohave subscribed should be getting themsoon. >> Did you ask when we'd get billed? Don Burns from RMargiotta@aol.com Thu Apr 16 19:01:03 1998 Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish To All: I use regular Flexcoat that's thinned 15% with methyl ethyl ketone (MEK:available from hardware stores). This really eliminates bubbles, helps itflow, and keeps it from setting up before I've finished coating the wraps.MEK would work on other forms of epoxy finishes, I'm sure. --Rich from stpete@netten.net Thu Apr 16 19:01:24 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA15478 for Subject: First stab at Hexrod I'm interested in the PHY Driggs River posted by Wayne C. and reposted posted for 6" stations) and got the detailed report (extrapolations to1" dimensions). Then I got the planing form report for 5" increments. 1. Any problems with doing this kind of thing? Are we losing much in the translation from 6" readings to calculations for a 5" output? 2. Are the ferrule sizes computed by the program reliable? That is,if you've made a taper from the program did you find the computed ferrule size to be the proper one to use? 3. John Channer, the tapers were posted "backwards", that is 0" was something like .209 while 45" was .070. Also, the taper was listed with each section starting at '0'.Finally, the readings were for the '0' mard to be the thick end of the section and the 45" dimension being the thin end of each section.I now know what you mean by not knowing if you "got it right" when you enter that type of taper posting into Hexrod. It's much easiertoenter the dimensions of the assembled rod. Thanks for letting me in onTHAT. Hexrod virgin no longer, Rick from WayneCatt@aol.com Thu Apr 16 19:16:00 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Rick -There were several rod makers of the past that worked in 6" - 3" andeven 11/2" increments - with the planing forms built at 5" centers that is thebestyou will do - I would doubt that you could tell the difference casting thedifferent rods. I have test run the Windows(it hurts to say that) versionandnext week the troutbums at Grayrock are going to give it a workout Wayne from JDemp1@AOL.COM Thu Apr 16 19:40:31 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order would be interested in a few spools -------Jed from BGray75837@aol.com Thu Apr 16 20:04:00 1998 Subject: listserv Would someone please tell me how to get off this listserv. Not that I haveanything aginst any rod makers, it's just that I use my computor many forbusiness and all of this e-mailings are taking up too much room. Thanks, Billy Graybgray75837@aol.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 16 20:51:14 1998 Subject: Re: Re:__PFLUEGER_Medalist_1492_ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 16 20:51:17 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit Rich,The TBBQ is June 26th and 27th. Wayne has more details.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 16 20:51:22 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Router bit/rat race Brett,I have to say "Amen" to the fly shop comment. I tried it for 6 years(about5 years too long). Now that I'm guiding and teaching and building rods I'finally in the black. The inventory was eating me up.Hank. from cbogart@shentel.net Thu Apr 16 20:59:47 1998 VAA11705;Thu, 16 Apr 1998 21:59:39 -0400 Subject: Blue Ridge Rodmakers BBQ To All I have posted info and directions off of my home pagewww.shentel.net/canerodwith a link from rodmaking classes page for the get together for thosewho planto attendand need directions. More info to follow. Chris from CALucker@aol.com Thu Apr 16 21:06:57 1998 Subject: Re: Grand silk order Regarding the custom silk order: It looks like the color is going to be either what is known as New Curry orAntique Gold (Corticelli 5175, a warm gold that goes chestnut with tungoilvarnish) or Java Beige (Corticelli 5115 a medium brown that is very verycloseto what you see on Payne's when you use color preserver, and pretty darkandmuddy when you don't). I prefer the 5175 color, but it's not entirely my decision. I am still getting requests and suggestions, so give me another weekbefore Ilet all interested know about our color choice, size choice, and whetherwecan get additional colors. Chris Lucker from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Apr 16 21:23:19 1998 Subject: Re: jewellery In a message dated 98-04-08 20:25:21 EDT, you write: snip Terry Longair Terry: Contact me off list and I will share some good casting rod taperswithyou. Would post to the list, but zero interest shown in past offers. Regards,Richard from Fallcreek9@aol.com Thu Apr 16 21:31:39 1998 Subject: Re: Sewell Dunton rod Hank - I have an 8 - 0, # 5, 2-pc made around 1970 from a Dunton blank. Atthe time it was the only blank offered with a light- weight line. Exceptforthe node spacing, all is quite ok, including the glue lines which are quitewell defined by the resorcinol glue used. The rod has a med- fast taperthatis quite plesant to cast. The node spacing indicates the splits werechosenrandomly and probably from different culms. In one places on the butt,nodeson three adjacent flats are in quite close proximity. However, it is a goodfishing rod. Regards,Richard from gwr@seanet.com Thu Apr 16 21:41:03 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA13941 for; Subject: Re: Grand silk order Chris, I neglected to give a color preference when I asked to be counted in onthe order. 5175 would be best for me, though I'd take a few spools of theother to help bulk up an order. If you go with the 5175, I'd get at least adozen spools, maybe more depending on price. Thanks, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com Regarding the custom silk order: It looks like the color is going to be either what is known as New CurryorAntique Gold (Corticelli 5175, a warm gold that goes chestnut with tungoilvarnish) or Java Beige (Corticelli 5115 a medium brown that is very verycloseto what you see on Payne's when you use color preserver, and pretty darkandmuddy when you don't). I prefer the 5175 color, but it's not entirely my decision. I am still getting requests and suggestions, so give me another weekbeforeIlet all interested know about our color choice, size choice, and whetherwecan get additional colors. Chris Lucker from gwr@seanet.com Thu Apr 16 21:44:19 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA14061 for; Subject: Re: jewellery Richard, The interest isn't zero, it's just not vocal. I prefer flyrods myself,but I grew up on spinning gear and my old man would love nothing betterthanto have me build him a spinning or casting rod now that I'm getting intothis side of the discipline (straying from plastic). I'd sure appreciate itif you'd post to the list. Thanks, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: jewellery In a message dated 98-04-08 20:25:21 EDT, you write: snipcastingTerry Longair Terry: Contact me off list and I will share some good casting rod taperswithyou. Would post to the list, but zero interest shown in past offers.Regards,Richard from lsgorney@rs01.kings.edu Thu Apr 16 21:46:05 1998 8.7/8.7) idWAA35140 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 22:42:47 - Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Don Burns wrote: Did you ask when we'd get billed? from FLYROD777@aol.com Thu Apr 16 21:46:29 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Wayne When do you think it will hit the streets? By the way how are the troutbumsin Grayrock? Looking forward to the gathering. Do you have a date. Iremember you saying in late Jun. Thanks Mark from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Apr 16 22:45:14 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id XAA16857; Thu, 16 Apr 199823:43:10 Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish At 07:59 PM 4/16/98 EDT, RMargiotta wrote:To All: I use regular Flexcoat that's thinned 15% with methyl ethyl ketone (MEK:available from hardware stores). This really eliminates bubbles, helps itflow, and keeps it from setting up before I've finished coating the wraps.MEK would work on other forms of epoxy finishes, I'm sure. --Rich I just want to bring it to the attention of the group that the vapors ofMEK are very toxic; Toxic to the point that the organic chemists in myinstitution do not allow its use in many procedures where it used to be thestandard solvent. I believe it is toxic to both the liver and the brain.Use with care! -Doug Easton from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Apr 16 22:56:14 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 16Apr 1998 23:55:58 -0400 Subject: Cooking... Just thought some people may be interested...I had a short section of culm left over from cutting the nodes out of a rod and wanted to play. I split a 2" section out of it so that I had a reference piece. I set the over to 200 and left it in for 20 minutes. Nothing happened....later in the evening I realized the bamboo was still in the oven. I thought it would be charcoal but to my surprise it was not. I took i out and compared to the reference piece. 1 hour in the over and only the very slightest of chance. I have no doubt the moisture is gone, but the color surprised me. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from saweiss@flash.net Thu Apr 16 23:28:43 1998 Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish -----Original Message----- rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish At 07:59 PM 4/16/98 EDT, RMargiotta wrote:To All: I use regular Flexcoat that's thinned 15% with methyl ethyl ketone (MEK:available from hardware stores). This really eliminates bubbles, helpsitflow, and keeps it from setting up before I've finished coating thewraps.MEK would work on other forms of epoxy finishes, I'm sure. --Rich I just want to bring it to the attention of the group that the vapors ofMEK are very toxic; Toxic to the point that the organic chemists in myinstitution do not allow its use in many procedures where it used to bethestandard solvent. I believe it is toxic to both the liver and the brain.Use with care! -Doug Easton I have heard that acetone, being a ketone, can be used instead of MEK.Probably not as toxic. Anyone know about this?Steve Weiss from WayneCatt@aol.com Fri Apr 17 00:19:36 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Mark -Been hiding a bit of late - the gathering starts june 20 (unofficially)June26-27 are the official dates - as usual keeping busy - I have a July 5deadline with Nick Lyons Wayne from channer@hubwest.com Fri Apr 17 01:57:49 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ADDD42100C2; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 00:59:41 MDT Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod At 06:57 PM 4/16/98 -0500, you wrote:I'm interested in the PHY Driggs River posted by Wayne C. and reposted posted for 6" stations) and got the detailed report (extrapolations to1" dimensions). Then I got the planing form report for 5" increments. 1. Any problems with doing this kind of thing? Are we losing much in the translation from 6" readings to calculations for a 5" output? 2. Are the ferrule sizes computed by the program reliable? That is,if you've made a taper from the program did you find the computed ferrule size to be the proper one to use? 3. John Channer, the tapers were posted "backwards", that is 0" was something like .209 while 45" was .070. Also, the taper was listed with each section starting at '0'.Finally, the readings were for the '0' mard to be the thick end of the section and the 45" dimension being the thin end of each section.I now know what you mean by not knowing if you "got it right" when you enter that type of taper posting into Hexrod. It's much easiertoenter the dimensions of the assembled rod. Thanks for letting me inonTHAT. Hexrod virgin no longer, Rick Rick;I think that what usually throws me off is not knowing the length of theferrules(and trim wraps).I measured a couple of old rods I had by startingover at 0 each section, then went back and measured the assembled rodjustto see if I was getting the taper right by trying to figure out where thenumbers for the mid and butt were supposed to be and couldn't get itright.I suppose there is a way to do this, but I'm not sure how. Youshouldn't run into problems converting from 6" dimensions to 5" as long asthe measurements entered are correct. Wayne's original version suppliedwith his book and Frank Stetzer's updated Interface to Hexrod in theRodmaker's software section are both capable of converting anydimensionsgiven to 5" stations.I use the web version, I am not experienced enough onthis computer to come up with the stress curve diagrams on my own. Frankhas made it easy for lazy dummies like me to see what these curves looklike. What I find interesting is to compare the differences in rise perstation between different rods of the same lengthto see how differentmakers tweeked their tapers. Have fun with all this.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Fri Apr 17 02:02:15 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AEEA42900C2; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 01:04:10 MDT Subject: Re: listserv At 09:03 PM 4/16/98 EDT, you wrote:Would someone please tell me how to get off this listserv. Not that Ihaveanything aginst any rod makers, it's just that I use my computor many forbusiness and all of this e-mailings are taking up too much room. Thanks, Billy Graybgray75837@aol.com Billy;send an e-mail to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu ,for subject enter unsubcribeand for the message write "unsubscribe rodmakers,Billy Gray" or whatevername you used to subscribe in the first place.John Channer from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Apr 17 05:14:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish Doug: Absolutely right. I keep the stuff hidden away and use only about 1/4 tspata time for thinning the Flexcoat batch. Cleanup with acetone. --Rich> from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Apr 17 07:53:21 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine RO>>Don Burns wrote: Did you ask when we'd get billed? Good question, Don . . . still waiting for the invoice here in NE PA.RO>Len Gorney lsgorney@rs01.kings.eduhttp://www.kings.edu/~lsgorney/index.htmRO>"You never step in the same stream twice." Hericlitus circa 100 BC Yeah, I don't want to see them go under due to funding problems. Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Apr 17 08:02:13 1998 Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish RO>Doug: RO>Absolutely right. I keep the stuff hidden away and use only about 1/4tsp aRO>a time for thinning the Flexcoat batch. Cleanup with acetone. RO>--Rich The other good use for MEK is as a glue for styrene-type plastics. Ibelieve Testor use to sell it as their liquid model cement until some Rodcrafters (Clemens sponsored group?) had a nice chart of rodmakingchemicals and their good/bad points, oh I guess it was several yearsago. I'll see if I can find my copy and maybe they'll allow me toreprint it. Don Burns from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Apr 17 08:42:10 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 17Apr 1998 09:43:44 -0400 Subject: Re: Quick Survey if You Have Time? Thanks for the feedback. I was adding a couple pages to the paper today. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Apr 17 08:50:05 1998 Subject: Re: _PFLUEGER_Medalist_1492__2*" In a message dated 98-04-16 09:29:13 EDT, you write: I was down at GI Joe's the other day and they've got a reel from Eagle Clawwith the Grainger name on it. solid machined/cast aluminum, looks prettydecent, about $35 US. Davy from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Apr 17 08:54:19 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 17Apr 1998 09:55:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish I use acetone to cut flex coats light build. It seems to me the mix stays in a jelly state longer and I let the sections turn longer because of this. I mix about one or two drops into a 2cc mix of epoxy. I have heard that acetone, being a ketone, can be used instead of MEK.Probably not as toxic. Anyone know about this?Steve WeissJon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Apr 17 09:02:51 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: listserv Is there perhaps a "digest" version of this listserv that's available?My understanding is that you get one messge with everything in it for the day (or something like that). If so, I think I might switch to this to...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: listserv Author: at Tcpgate At 09:03 PM 4/16/98 EDT, you wrote:Would someone please tell me how to get off this listserv. Not that Ihaveanything aginst any rod makers, it's just that I use my computor many forbusiness and all of this e-mailings are taking up too much room. Thanks, Billy Graybgray75837@aol.com Billy;send an e-mail to listproc@wugate.wustl.edu ,for subject enter unsubcribeand for the message write "unsubscribe rodmakers,Billy Gray" or whatevername you used to subscribe in the first place.John Channer from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Apr 17 09:05:43 1998 0400 Subject: Re: Garrison book You can get it a few bucks cheaper via catalog (depending on tax vs shipping), I think Cabela's was around $70. One store, Efinger's in Bound Brook, NJ has it for $60!! My friend and I both paid 70-something via mail order and then saw it there...maybe they'll ship..their number is 732-356- 0604....Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Garrison book Author: at Tcpgate All, I had a few minutes to kill today and stopped at a local FF shop, theyhave one copy of the Garrison/Carmichael book still in shrink wrap @$75. I believe this is out of print again? If so, I'd pick it up and ship it for cost (don't forget LA county 8.25%sales tax too) plus postage, if someone can't find it elsewhere. CONTACT ME OFF LIST OR YOU GO TO THE END OF THE LINE. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Apr 17 09:11:58 1998 Subject: Re: wooden 5-strip planing form In a message dated 98-04-10 09:11:32 EDT, you write: Ed - actually, I purchased my 5-side steel forms from Frank Armbruster atColorado Bootstrap. Have no idea if he has any at the moment.Richard from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Fri Apr 17 09:19:37 1998 (4.1/SMI-4.0); Fri, 17 Apr 98 08:03:44 CDT Subject: Re: Re[2]: listserv Andy seez... Is there perhaps a "digest" version of this listserv that's available?My understanding is that you get one messge with everything in it for the day (or something like that). If so, I think I might switch to this to...Andy In the body of the message: SET RODMAKERS MAIL DIGEST That will do it for you... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Apr 17 09:23:29 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA31886 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id JAA31291 for ; Fri, 17 Apr1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Rick, I believe it is my version of the Hexrod program you are using(there are several in circulation). Wayne addressed the firstquestion and John the third, so I'll take a stab at the second. The program computes the appropriate ferrule size by rounding:if the rod dimension at the ferrule location is between 10.5 and11.5 -64ths, it recommends an 11/64th ferrule. I believe this is stated on the documentation page. It also gives the exact dimension(in 64ths) at that point. And the documentation says that "differentbuilders have different opinions" on what sizes of ferrules to use.Please don't rely on the program's judgement if your common sense orexperience tells you otherwise. A couple years ago there was a brief discussion on the list about choosing ferrule sizes and you mightwant to check the archives. This is not the question you asked, but the weight of the ferrules hasquite a big impact on the stress curve calculations. Usually, whensomeoneposts a classic rod taper we know the number of ferrules, but little else.The ferrule weights the program uses are based on the ones in Wayne'soriginal Hexrod program. But chances are the ferrules on the Driggs don't weigh the same as the modern ones. For some reason, people withnice old rods might let you mic them, but get all huffy when you want toremove the ferrules to weigh them. Don't take stress curve analysis too seriously. Its a poor representationof what goes on with a flyrod, and it makes a lot of assumptions asguesses.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, stpete wrote: I'm interested in the PHY Driggs River posted by Wayne C. and reposted posted for 6" stations) and got the detailed report (extrapolations to1" dimensions). Then I got the planing form report for 5" increments. 2. Are the ferrule sizes computed by the program reliable? That is,if you've made a taper from the program did you find the computed ferrule size to be the proper one to use? Hexrod virgin no longer, Rick from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Apr 17 10:19:21 1998 Subject: Re: Garrison book RO> You can get it a few bucks cheaper via catalog (depending on tax vsRO> shipping), I think Cabela's was around $70. One store, Efinger's inRO> Bound Brook, NJ has it for $60!! My friend and I both paidRO> 70- something via mail order and then saw it there...maybe they'llRO> ship..their number is 732-356-0604....Andy I thought people couldn't find it last year - sorry, sounds like it'sstill around. Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 17 10:24:14 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod In a message dated 4/17/98 7:28:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Don't take stress curve analysis too seriously. Its a poor representationof what goes on with a flyrod, and it makes a lot of assumptions asguesses. Yes and no. It is true at first you can't plot a stress curve and expect toknow everything about how the rod will cast. But, if you can get a fewrods together, measure them, plot the stress curves and cast them,really get to know the casting characteristics, and try and relate themto the stress curve, then stress curves begin to become a goodrepresentation of the action of a flyrod. If you then go on and makechanges to the stress curve, make the rod, and thouroughly testthe rod, you will be able to get a real good idea of how a rod willcast by just looking at it's stress curve. Darryl from plipton@sunvalley.net Fri Apr 17 10:36:50 1998 forged)) 0600 Subject: Rod case George Barnes: I was looking at your post back on April 3rd and I admire your work. I amtrying to build a rod case similar to your design. Would you share with mehow thick the wood is ( 1/2", 5/8", ?) and how wide you made your strips. Thanks Phil Lipton from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Apr 17 10:38:09 1998 1997)) id862565E9.005546E5 ; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 10:31:27 -0500 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Speaking of what really goes on with a fly rod, I still maintain that itwould be a good, fun, and educational exercise to instrument a fly rod witha set of strain gages and look at the stresses both during a cast in realtime, and with a rod statically loaded. I think this kind of experimentalstress analysis would be very educational to those of us who areinterestedin such things and it would speak to those who doubt or have concernsaboutanalytical methods such as Hexrod. Best regards,-Ed Estlow SalarFly on 04/17/98 10:23:11 AM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod In a message dated 4/17/98 7:28:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes:Don't take stress curve analysis too seriously. Its a poorrepresentationof what goes on with a flyrod, and it makes a lot of assumptions asguesses. Yes and no. It is true at first you can't plot a stress curve and expect toknow everything about how the rod will cast. But, if you can get a fewrods together, measure them, plot the stress curves and cast them,really get to know the casting characteristics, and try and relate themto the stress curve, then stress curves begin to become a goodrepresentation of the action of a flyrod. If you then go on and makechanges to the stress curve, make the rod, and thouroughly testthe rod, you will be able to get a real good idea of how a rod willcast by just looking at it's stress curve.Darryl from plipton@sunvalley.net Fri Apr 17 10:59:38 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Diamond stones Rob Hoffhines: When my blades need a more aggressive stone, I use the red DMT diamondstone. I think that is around an #800 grit. After sharpening on the green#1200, I use a "blue" Japanese water stone that is about #4000. I got it from Hida Tools and it is also available from the Japan Woodworker. I findthat it really speeds up the polishing before I go to the #6000 or #8000water stones. Phil Philip Lipton, PO Box 1003Sun Valley, ID 83353208-622-8585, 208-726- 9559, fax 208-726-0191 from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Fri Apr 17 12:06:28 1998 12:06:14-0500 12:06:13-0500 12:06:13-0500 Subject: Re: Re[2]: listserv So how often does e-mail come in on the DIGEST format for Rodmakers?Jon Poling At 09:20 AM 4/17/98 -0500, you wrote:Andy seez... Is there perhaps a "digest" version of this listserv that's available?My understanding is that you get one messge with everything in it for the day (or something like that). If so, I think I might switch to this to...Andy In the body of the message: SET RODMAKERS MAIL DIGEST That will do it for you... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Fri Apr 17 12:10:30 1998 12:10:13-0500 12:10:11-0500 12:10:11-0500 Subject: Re: Heddon taper Hello Rick,Can you tell me more about the Phillipson Pacemaker,line wt. it takes, number of pcs., how much em cost etc.Thanks, jon At 11:02 AM 4/11/98 -0500, you wrote:I've got a Heddon #115 Premier 8'6", 2F, 3/2. It's been recoated withvarnish by an oldtimer a long while back. Other than that, it's alloriginial. Bag, tube, etc. I understand that the #115 was the Model 20 grade blank made for Searsonly had fewer guides. Anyone out there with M.Sinclair's book,'Heddon, The Rod with the Fighting Heart', that can confirm this? Ihave only his 'Restoration' book. I'd be glad to take the taper, but you guys had better give me somepointers on taking tapers of existing rods with varying finishes. Also,if you average station readings on all flats (3 per station?) Whathappens if a guide is at the station? Let's hear your methods. I wantto contribute to this list but, I don't want to give you guys bum info. I also have an 8' Phillipson Pacemaker that I really like. I'd postthat one also if anyone wants it. Rick Crenshaw from channer@hubwest.com Fri Apr 17 13:04:15 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AA0428B012A; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 12:05:56 MDT Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod At 11:23 AM 4/17/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 4/17/98 7:28:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Don't take stress curve analysis too seriously. Its a poorrepresentationof what goes on with a flyrod, and it makes a lot of assumptions asguesses. Yes and no. It is true at first you can't plot a stress curve and expect toknow everything about how the rod will cast. But, if you can get a fewrods together, measure them, plot the stress curves and cast them,really get to know the casting characteristics, and try and relate themto the stress curve, then stress curves begin to become a goodrepresentation of the action of a flyrod. If you then go on and makechanges to the stress curve, make the rod, and thouroughly testthe rod, you will be able to get a real good idea of how a rod willcast by just looking at it's stress curve. Darryl Darryl;I can understand how all this works , in theory , but what I don'tunderstand is when you find time to go to work while you're building allthese rods.John(still likes to eat)Channer from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri Apr 17 13:37:25 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: Garrison book Actually I think you were right, Don, I heard it was out of print for a while. But it is available again...for how long I don;t know...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Garrison book Author: at Tcpgate RO> You can get it a few bucks cheaper via catalog (depending on tax vsRO> shipping), I think Cabela's was around $70. One store, Efinger's inRO> Bound Brook, NJ has it for $60!! My friend and I both paidRO> 70- something via mail order and then saw it there...maybe they'llRO> ship..their number is 732-356-0604....Andy I thought people couldn't find it last year - sorry, sounds like it'sstill around. Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 17 14:00:00 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod In a message dated 4/17/98 11:10:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,channer@hubwest.com writes: I can understand how all this works , in theory , but what I don'tunderstand is when you find time to go to work while you're building allthese rods. You want to buy a rod? I got a lot lying around. Darryl from saweiss@flash.net Fri Apr 17 14:46:17 1998 Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish Doug: Absolutely right. I keep the stuff hidden away and use only about 1/4 tspata time for thinning the Flexcoat batch. Cleanup with acetone. Rich,Aren't you still inhaling the MEK fumes (at close range) when you arecoating the wraps?Steve, still healthy liver, Weiss from thramer@presys.com Fri Apr 17 15:29:33 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Finish Douglas P. Easton wrote: At 07:59 PM 4/16/98 EDT, RMargiotta wrote:To All: I use regular Flexcoat that's thinned 15% with methyl ethyl ketone (MEK:available from hardware stores). This really eliminates bubbles, helpsitflow, and keeps it from setting up before I've finished coating thewraps.MEK would work on other forms of epoxy finishes, I'm sure. --Rich I just want to bring it to the attention of the group that the vapors ofMEK are very toxic; Toxic to the point that the organic chemists in myinstitution do not allow its use in many procedures where it used to bethestandard solvent. I believe it is toxic to both the liver and the brain.Use with care! -Doug EastonBefore we bring outb the HAZMAT team we are probably dealing with thesum total of 4-5 drops.A.J.Thramer from jdunnigan@wyle.com Fri Apr 17 15:59:22 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA2EB4 0700 0700 Subject: RE: Finish =_NextPart_000_01BD6A08.14AB3890" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6A08.14AB3890 Everyone is worried about a little MEK What about the effects of all the preservatives, flavor enhances, =additives, coloring agents, and environmental pollutants that we live =in. I doubt the sum total of the all the MEK fumes inhaled while =wrapping a rod would have the effect of all the toxins we ingest as =humans in this new electronic/plastic age. The message should be USE = Something to think about. Jack -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Finish Douglas P. Easton wrote: At 07:59 PM 4/16/98 EDT, RMargiotta wrote:To All: I use regular Flexcoat that's thinned 15% with methyl ethyl ketone =(MEK:available from hardware stores). This really eliminates bubbles, =helps itflow, and keeps it from setting up before I've finished coating the =wraps.MEK would work on other forms of epoxy finishes, I'm sure. --Rich I just want to bring it to the attention of the group that the vapors =ofMEK are very toxic; Toxic to the point that the organic chemists in myinstitution do not allow its use in many procedures where it used to =be thestandard solvent. I believe it is toxic to both the liver and the =brain.Use with care! -Doug EastonBefore we bring outb the HAZMAT team we are probably dealing with thesum total of 4-5 drops.A.J.Thramer------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6A08.14AB3890 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6A08.14AB3890-- from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Apr 17 16:07:38 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 17Apr 1998 17:09:06 -0400 Subject: Bailey Does someone have a number for Bailey Wood?Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri Apr 17 16:08:43 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 17Apr 1998 17:10:12 -0400 Subject: Re: Diamond stones I was curious about the diamond stones. They have always been a good selling item for me but I have never used one. When my blades need a more aggressive stone, I use the red DMT diamondstone. I think that is around an #800 grit. After sharpening on the green#1200, I use a "blue" Japanese water stone that is about #4000. I got it from Hida Tools and it is also available from the Japan Woodworker. Ifindthat it really speeds up the polishing before I go to the #6000 or #8000water stones. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Fri Apr 17 16:09:57 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Fri, 17 Apr 98 17:09:10 EDT Subject: Ferrules I thought all was going just fine but... I fitted the ferrule sections toeach other by polishing the male until the fit was snug, carefully mountedeach on the blank, then after the glue dried mated the rod sections to eachother. As you wave the rod it is pretty clear there is some movement inthe ferrule. The end of the male is a wee bit too small so that you canfeel it moving slightly inside of the female part when the sections arejoined together, but I couldn't feel the mismatch with the ferrule partsalone. When you separate the sections you hear the "pop" so I think partof the fit is fine. I know this is just another part of the learningcurve, but it is a disappointment nonetheless. I'm curious about youradvice. I can leave as is and live with it. Or, I can remove the male andtry again. Will I be able to remove the male without wrecking the blankand what would be the best way to do so?? The ferrule was glued on withslow cure Devcon, and the blank with URAC. Thanks in advance, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from CALucker@aol.com Fri Apr 17 16:48:33 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules You're sure that it is a loose metal-to-metal fit? If so, place the male ferrule in a three jaw and triangulate it. You will getthe great fit found on many classic rods of the past. You force the femaletochange shape as the male is inserted. This method is always better thanthemore popular squeezing the female ferrule, because you preserve theintegrityof the female if you ever get a replacement male ferrule. Remember, asferrules wear, the female gets larger and the male gets smaller. But areplacement male will always be too large 99.9% of the time. So whymake thefemale smaller? What did you think the Big Time professional shops did when they over- worked amale ferrule fitting? Chris Lucker from jczimny@dol.net Fri Apr 17 17:15:02 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules Bob,If you're detecting movement at the ferule and the problem is not in themale/female fit, then you'll have to remove and re-glue the offendingferrule.Carefully, heat it with your heat gun, it will come off. Then clean up,reglueand try to forget that it happened.John Zimny Robert Milardo wrote: I thought all was going just fine but... I fitted the ferrule sections toeach other by polishing the male until the fit was snug, carefullymountedeach on the blank, then after the glue dried mated the rod sections toeachother. As you wave the rod it is pretty clear there is some movement inthe ferrule. The end of the male is a wee bit too small so that you canfeel it moving slightly inside of the female part when the sections arejoined together, but I couldn't feel the mismatch with the ferrule partsalone. When you separate the sections you hear the "pop" so I think partof the fit is fine. I know this is just another part of the learningcurve, but it is a disappointment nonetheless. I'm curious about youradvice. I can leave as is and live with it. Or, I can remove the male andtry again. Will I be able to remove the male without wrecking the blankand what would be the best way to do so?? The ferrule was glued onwithslow cure Devcon, and the blank with URAC. Thanks in advance, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill HallUniv. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Apr 17 17:34:40 1998 Subject: Re: jewellery In a message dated 98-04-16 22:25:58 EDT, you write: Dear Richard (& anyone else to whom this may apply) I, for one, would be very interested in seeing some spinning rod tapers,especially proven ones for lightweight rods. Davy from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri Apr 17 17:55:11 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA043673552; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 15:52:32 -0700 Subject: Spin Rod Tapers I would be interested in spinning rod tapers as well. I've restored a Heddon #2500 President Expert, and a Cross Rod Co. baitcasting rod and in my opinion they both had the flex of a telephone pole. I would like to see a taper in the 6'-7' range also if available. Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from RMargiotta@aol.com Fri Apr 17 17:55:41 1998 Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish Steve: Sure thing (twitch, twitch). Hasn't affected me yet (twitch, twitch). Twitchy Richy from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Apr 17 18:22:07 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules Dear Robert If you have trouble getting an even fit, you can mic the male thoroughly,coatthe whole thing with Dykem or permanent marker and try to remove all thedyeevenly as you work it down. Keep repeating this process until you've got a"too-tight" fit and then clean up with crocus cloth. You will eventuallydevelop a "feel" (which should occasionally be "calibrated" by using thedyeor somesuch) for doing this job in a uniform manner. Actually, I should ask what kind of ferrules you're using. Are they yourown?If so (or even if not) make sure the female i.d. is uniform before you getcarried away with the male. If not, you'll never get a good fit. Yourreamershould be sharp enough to shave your thumbnail for the entire length of theflute and your tailstock must be dead-center. Hope this helps. It wasn't easy for me to get this right, but it seemed tostart working for me about the time I got the culm-splitting spline- planingsection-gluing glue-scraping thing to start making sense. Whistle a happy tune, Davy from channer@hubwest.com Fri Apr 17 18:30:49 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A695A040136; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:32:37 MDT Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod At 02:59 PM 4/17/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 4/17/98 11:10:17 AM Pacific Daylight Time,channer@hubwest.com writes: I can understand how all this works , in theory , but what I don'tunderstand is when you find time to go to work while you're buildingallthese rods. You want to buy a rod? I got a lot lying around. Darryl Darryl;I'ld love to, maybe then I could find out what these things are supposed tolook and cast like. Unfortuneately, the local economy(meaning at myhouse)dictates that I fumble along making my own.John Channer from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Apr 17 18:34:17 1998 gw2adm.rcsntx.swbell.net SAA17344 Subject: Re: Spin Rod Tapers My third rod will be a spinning rod for my wife. I would appreciateseeing tapers also. Thanks, SteveIndependence, MO from channer@hubwest.com Fri Apr 17 18:36:04 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A7C63C2012A; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:37:42 MDT Subject: Re: Bailey At 05:07 PM 4/17/98 +0000, you wrote:Does someone have a number for Bailey Wood?Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon;Look in any of your copies of the Planing Form, if you don't get thePlaning Form, then shame on you(just kidding, the # is 802-525-3623, faxis802-525-3982)John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Fri Apr 17 18:41:19 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A905A100136; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:43:01 MDT Subject: Re: Spin Rod Tapers At 03:47 PM 4/17/98 PDT, you wrote:I would be interested in spinning rod tapers as well. I've restored a Heddon #2500 President Expert, and a Cross Rod Co. baitcasting rod andin my opinion they both had the flex of a telephone pole. I would like to see a taper in the 6'-7' range also if available. Thanks. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Chris;I recall seeing a taper for an O****( there's the O word again) lightspinning rod in the Planing Form a couple of years ago, if you don't havethem back that far, let me know and I'll try to find it for you.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Fri Apr 17 18:49:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AB023CD012A; Fri, 17 Apr 1998 17:51:30 MDT Subject: Re: Ferrules At 05:21 PM 4/17/98, you wrote:I thought all was going just fine but... I fitted the ferrule sections toeach other by polishing the male until the fit was snug, carefullymountedeach on the blank, then after the glue dried mated the rod sections toeachother. As you wave the rod it is pretty clear there is some movement inthe ferrule. The end of the male is a wee bit too small so that you canfeel it moving slightly inside of the female part when the sections arejoined together, but I couldn't feel the mismatch with the ferrule partsalone. When you separate the sections you hear the "pop" so I think partof the fit is fine. I know this is just another part of the learningcurve, but it is a disappointment nonetheless. I'm curious about youradvice. I can leave as is and live with it. Or, I can remove the male andtry again. Will I be able to remove the male without wrecking the blankand what would be the best way to do so?? The ferrule was glued onwithslow cure Devcon, and the blank with URAC. Thanks in advance, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 Bob;Next time fit the ferrules after the are glued to the blank. You get moreleverage this way, therefore you wind up with the fit you need. If you fitthe ferrules together first they will always be too loose after assemblingthe rod.I use 600 and 1200 grit strips of sandpaper pinched around themaleso it has even pressure the whole length and then spin the rod shaft. Checkthe fit frequently.So far, this has worked well for me( watch the next onebe a total disaster now that I've had the nerve to open my big mouth) GoodluckJohn Channer from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Apr 17 19:30:37 1998 (205.236.249.191) Subject: Re: Ferrules The female gets larger and the male gets smaller- us old farts can vouchforthat! Terry CA Lucker wrote: You're sure that it is a loose metal-to-metal fit? If so, place the male ferrule in a three jaw and triangulate it. You willgetthe great fit found on many classic rods of the past. You force thefemale tochange shape as the male is inserted. This method is always better thanthemore popular squeezing the female ferrule, because you preserve theintegrityof the female if you ever get a replacement male ferrule. Remember, asferrules wear, the female gets larger and the male gets smaller. But areplacement male will always be too large 99.9% of the time. So whymake thefemale smaller? What did you think the Big Time professional shops did when they over- worked amale ferrule fitting? Chris Lucker from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 17 19:46:20 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine I subscribed by mail a month ago and haven't received a thing.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 17 19:46:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Don,I sent 'em a check with my subscription-maybe I'll foreclose on 'em :- ).Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 17 19:47:00 1998 Subject: Re: Re: First stab at Hexrod Darryl,I believe I can do the same analysis by looking at a graph of the taper- atleast so far in my limited experience.Regards,Hank. from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Apr 17 19:47:35 1998 (205.236.249.191) Subject: Re: Ferrules A ferrule should be on the rod and then fitted. If you fit a ferrule one toeach other in the hand it may feel a good fit but once glued to the rod theywill feel a lot looser because you can apply more leverage to the cane.Try this trick, purchase a small pipe cutter, the type plumbers use for 1/4diacopper pipe. Take the cutting blade out and clamp onto the female ferruleandclamp and turn, clamp and turn until you get the fit req. The ferrulemust beon the rod.Dont get upset, fitting ferrules is not easy and some of the mostexperiencedbuilders have trouble.Terry Robert Milardo wrote: I thought all was going just fine but... I fitted the ferrule sections toeach other by polishing the male until the fit was snug, carefullymountedeach on the blank, then after the glue dried mated the rod sections toeachother. As you wave the rod it is pretty clear there is some movement inthe ferrule. The end of the male is a wee bit too small so that you canfeel it moving slightly inside of the female part when the sections arejoined together, but I couldn't feel the mismatch with the ferrule partsalone. When you separate the sections you hear the "pop" so I think partof the fit is fine. I know this is just another part of the learningcurve, but it is a disappointment nonetheless. I'm curious about youradvice. I can leave as is and live with it. Or, I can remove the male andtry again. Will I be able to remove the male without wrecking the blankand what would be the best way to do so?? The ferrule was glued onwithslow cure Devcon, and the blank with URAC. Thanks in advance, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill HallUniv. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 17 19:49:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sewell Dunton rod Richard.This rod is a 3 pc. , 71/2' for a 5 and casts fairly nicely. There are noglue lines so they must have changed glues somwhere down the line.. Therod'scosmetics are good but they sure didn't worry about node spacing or filingguide feet.Regards,Hank. from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Apr 17 20:08:47 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine RO>Don,RO> I sent 'em a check with my subscription-maybe I'll foreclose on 'em:-).RO> Hank. Hank, Then I hope you see the next magazine. Don from stpete@netten.net Fri Apr 17 20:40:03 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id UAA10775 for Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Frank Stetzer wrote: Rick, I believe it is my version of the Hexrod program you are using(there are several in circulation). Wayne addressed the firstquestion and John the third, so I'll take a stab at the second. Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank, Thanks for the version on the web. I have Win95 and reallydidn't want to get into Wayne's DOS version that came with his book. Although I didn't try it (sorry Wayne), I appreciate all the work thatGarrison, Cattanach, you and the rodmakers have put in to make theprocesses more controllable and sensible. Your version is so easy, I amplotting all the tapers I am interested in making so that I can comparethe stress curves on the same size chart (apples to apples type thing,etc.). I still don't know what the curves really mean to the rodaction, but I understand the principles and I'll just have to build someexperience casting rods that I have the graphs of, then perhaps it willmake practical sense. Rick from stpete@netten.net Fri Apr 17 21:00:57 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id VAA11727 for Subject: Re: Heddon taper Jon Poling wrote: Hello Rick,Can you tell me more about the Phillipson Pacemaker,line wt. it takes, number of pcs., how much em cost etc.Thanks, jon The Phillipson Pacemaker is an 8'0", 3 pc. It casts a DT5 very well. Ialso use a Wulff Triangle Taper 5/6 and like it very much. I posted thetaper a while back. I've seen them sell anywhere from $500 to $250depending on condition. Mine is NOT for sale! But you can build onelike it per the taper posting. Rick from CampblRods@aol.com Fri Apr 17 21:45:33 1998 Subject: Bevelers or Milling machines I'm interested if anyone knows of a beveler or milling machine for sale. Myshop has been limited too hand planing for the last six years. I wouldappreciate any help on locating a machine for my business. Thanks, Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri Apr 17 22:00:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: error Hey, Gary,What were we talking about? :-)Hank. from Fallcreek9@aol.com Fri Apr 17 22:21:28 1998 Subject: Spin/Cast Rod Tapers Russ, Simon, Davy, Mac and Steve: The listing below is part one of those spin, spincast, and casting rodtapersI have. Hope you get some good from them: 1. 5-6, 2-pc, ultra light spin rod, # 11 F and # 4.5 tip top0" thru 60" @ 5" increments, sans varnish070 - 092 - 104 - 110 - 124 - 144 - 166 - 182 - 188 - 206 - 236 -250 -250 2. 5-0, 2-pc, UL spin rod, # 11 F and # 5 tip top0" thru 60" @ 5" increments, sans varnish072 - 074 - 092 - 104 - 110 - 124 - 144 - 166 - 182 - 188 - 206 -236 -250 - 250 Note: 1. and 2. actually are two different rods. Have built # 2 and it is afine taper. 3. 7-0 spin rod for 6 - 10 # monofiliment , 2-pc, # 15 F and # 6 tip top from 1.5" thru 70" random due to guides. Note: recommend graphingfor5" increments. 1.5-100 ; 4.5-115 ; 6.5 - 120 ; 10 - 132 ; 15 - 146 ; 19 - 134 ; 21.5 -167 ; 25 - 179 ; 30 - 194 ; 35 - 206 ; 40.5 - 214 ; 44.5 - 238 ; 50 - 252 ; 55 -267 ; 60 - 280 ; 65 - 294 ; 70 - 308 4. 73" Spin Cast, 2-pc with F between 41.5" and 45" dimensions, butcouldbe placed wherever the builder wants. This rod had permanent, straight handle, but could be made for off-set handle as well. A fairly slowaction, too slow for traditional (1940's and 50's) casting type reels but ok spincast or modern small reels such as Spidermiteand and light monoor spiderwire and 1/4-oz or smaller lures. Random measurements due to guides and ferrule. 1.25 - 080 ; 5 - 090 ; 10 - 111 ; 19.5 - 144 ; 25 - 156 ; 29 - 168 ; 31- 173 ; 35 - 181 ; 39.5 - 197 ; 41.5 - 200 ; 45 - 217 ; 49-7/8 - 237 ; 55 -270; 60 - 288 ; 65 - 307 ; 73 - 322 More later,RTyree from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Apr 17 22:26:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine List,When I talked to Mark Metcalf last month in Detroit he said they werehavingtrouble with their accounting program. If you guys are worried about themgoing under I would send them the money in an envelope with your nameandaddress and write the term limit you want on your subscription. I paid Mark at Detroit would be the same as any other mag you sent in payment for. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Apr 17 22:28:16 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Garrison book I read a thing the other day that said the publishers decided to reissue thebook because the Martha's Vineyard edition went over so well.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri Apr 17 22:31:28 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Hank,Call them that is what I did when the postoffice destroyed mine and I hadanew copy within a weekBret from gwr@seanet.com Fri Apr 17 23:32:52 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA18440 for; Subject: Re: Spin/Cast Rod Tapers Thanks for the tapers. I appreciate the time you took to mic them out andpost them. Russ from richjez@enteract.com Fri Apr 17 23:35:58 1998 0000 (147.126.253.18) Subject: Re: Ferrules Great suggestion TerryRich Jezioro At 08:47 PM 4/17/98 -0400, you wrote:A ferrule should be on the rod and then fitted. If you fit a ferrule one toeach other in the hand it may feel a good fit but once glued to the rodtheywill feel a lot looser because you can apply more leverage to the cane.Try this trick, purchase a small pipe cutter, the type plumbers use for1/4 diacopper pipe. Take the cutting blade out and clamp onto the female ferruleandclamp and turn, clamp and turn until you get the fit req. The ferrule mustbeon the rod.Dont get upset, fitting ferrules is not easy and some of the mostexperiencedbuilders have trouble.Terry Robert Milardo wrote: I thought all was going just fine but... I fitted the ferrule sections toeach other by polishing the male until the fit was snug, carefullymountedeach on the blank, then after the glue dried mated the rod sections toeachother. As you wave the rod it is pretty clear there is some movement inthe ferrule. The end of the male is a wee bit too small so that you canfeel it moving slightly inside of the female part when the sections arejoined together, but I couldn't feel the mismatch with the ferrule partsalone. When you separate the sections you hear the "pop" so I think partof the fit is fine. I know this is just another part of the learningcurve, but it is a disappointment nonetheless. I'm curious about youradvice. I can leave as is and live with it. Or, I can remove the male andtry again. Will I be able to remove the male without wrecking the blankand what would be the best way to do so?? The ferrule was glued onwithslow cure Devcon, and the blank with URAC. Thanks in advance, Bob.Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill HallUniv. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581-3128 from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Apr 17 23:39:17 1998 Subject: Re: Spin/Cast Rod Tapers The listing below is part one of those spin, spincast, and casting rodtapersI have. Hope you get some good from them: from SalarFly@aol.com Fri Apr 17 23:54:17 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod In a message dated 4/17/98 4:35:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,channer@hubwest.com writes: I'ld love to, maybe then I could find out what these things are supposedtolook and cast like. Unfortuneately, the local economy(meaning at myhouse)dictates that I fumble along making my own. You wouldn't like most of them anyway. I lot of them were made totest a theory of mine and they aren't a real good overall fishing rod.Like the one I made to see if the taper could affect the tightnessof the loop in the line. The resulting rod casts a tight loop all right,but doesn't roll cast at all. Or the one where I tested the theorythat heat treatment isn't neccessary, or the first couple Garrisontapers I made. Now I'm working on a 5ft. one piece 5wt. becausesomeone told me that short rods for heavier weight lines can be cast just as delicately as a light (2 -3 wt.) rod up close, but the weight of the line allows you to cast far if you need to, even with a short rod. Why a one piece? Don't have to buy a ferrule. If itworks I'll share the taper. I'm planning on fishing the Sierra Mtns.with it this summer. I'm thinking of testing the old adage "longrods for float tubes" with it also. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Apr 18 00:00:23 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod In a message dated 4/17/98 5:54:34 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: I believe I can do the same analysis by looking at a graph of the taper-atleast so far in my limited experience. Yeah, we went down that road before didn't we? Perhaps they can. Igraph up both in my spreadsheet, but I get most of my info fromthe stress graph. Darryl from Cmwall@aol.com Sat Apr 18 07:04:15 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks to A.J. etc. A.J. and Rob,What are the guide spacing on the 4'4"(little screamer) I have one ready toglue up. Haven't decided between one or two piece yet but think eitherwouldbe good. Any help with spacing would be appreciated. Thanks,"Mac"Wall from gwbarnes@gwi.net Sat Apr 18 07:31:27 1998 Subject: Re: Ferrules CA Lucker wrote: You're sure that it is a loose metal-to-metal fit? Bob: Here's another experience not previously mentioned and one that fallsunderChris'question. Years ago, a rod I'd made a fishing friend actually developed a clickingsoundwhile being fished. Since the fit had seemed ok we assumed the bondbetweenferrule and cane had failed. (At that time a heated "Pliobond" was used forferrules) When removed it became evident that the soldering of tubing when theferrule wasmanufactured had not been complete and the minor point of attachmenthad failed.Heating the ferrule to the point where the solder was again fluid solvedtheproblem. George from cbogart@shentel.net Sat Apr 18 08:41:23 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Daryl on Rodmakers homepage. I have cast the quad version and it is a really neat rod - it will give you a starting point for doing a short taperin that weight. Chris On Sat, 18 Apr 1998 00:53:42 EDT, SalarFly wrote: In a message dated 4/17/98 4:35:44 PM Pacific Daylight Time,channer@hubwest.com writes: I'ld love to, maybe then I could find out what these things are supposedtolook and cast like. Unfortuneately, the local economy(meaning at myhouse)dictates that I fumble along making my own. You wouldn't like most of them anyway. I lot of them were made totest a theory of mine and they aren't a real good overall fishing rod.Like the one I made to see if the taper could affect the tightnessof the loop in the line. The resulting rod casts a tight loop all right,but doesn't roll cast at all. Or the one where I tested the theorythat heat treatment isn't neccessary, or the first couple Garrisontapers I made. Now I'm working on a 5ft. one piece 5wt. becausesomeone told me that short rods for heavier weight lines can be cast just as delicately as a light (2 -3 wt.) rod up close, but the weight of the line allows you to cast far if you need to, even with a short rod. Why a one piece? Don't have to buy a ferrule. If itworks I'll share the taper. I'm planning on fishing the Sierra Mtns.with it this summer. I'm thinking of testing the old adage "longrods for float tubes" with it also. Darryl Regards Chris from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Sat Apr 18 09:36:19 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Re[3]: Finish I work for Boeing and we use MEK all the time in gallons, as long as youuse it in a well ventilated area and wear rubber gloves you are okay. Itis mainly absorbed through the skin and does congregate in mainly theliver and the brain. We have mechanics that have been using it for 20-30years bear handed with no ill effects, they even wash off the seal ontheir hands with it. They have been thoroughly by medical. The EPA givesthe same warning and we are currently going to other solvents that don'twork as good. You can use it but like all things is life one shouldexercise caution and common sense. Patrick ----------From: flyfisher@cmix.com[SMTP:flyfisher@cmix.com] Sent: Friday, April 17, 1998 5:01 AM Subject: Re: Re[3]: Finish RO>Doug: RO>Absolutely right. I keep the stuff hidden away and use only about1/4 tsp aRO>a time for thinning the Flexcoat batch. Cleanup with acetone. RO>--Rich The other good use for MEK is as a glue for styrene-type plastics. Ibelieve Testor use to sell it as their liquid model cement until some Rodcrafters (Clemens sponsored group?) had a nice chart of rodmakingchemicals and their good/bad points, oh I guess it was several yearsago. I'll see if I can find my copy and maybe they'll allow me toreprint it. Don Burns from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Apr 18 09:57:27 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Rick -In reading your post - there is nothing to be sorry for. When I posted thesource code for Hexrod it was my hope that others might pick up onsomethingthat I didn't even start. The whole idea of using stress curves started withthe Garrison work - I put it to computer code because I didn't want it totakeseveral nights with a calculator to alter rod tapers. For years it worked(andstill does) - I have a 2" thick binder filled with the results. My lifestyleand attitude stalled me from taking it to a higher plateau - however I havenow attempted to catch up with the rest of the world - $229 (VB5Professional) and two weeks later there is a soon to be released Win 95version. Hexrod was the first in a series of steps of a project that was a seriousplan about 12 years ago. Back then a company and I were going to create acasting robot to test fly rods and fly lines. The project never flew becauseof the wind tunnel and such that would be needed to create actual lifesituations. As intimidating as Hexrod may appear to some it is fairlysimple. Why the new version you ask - well in mid July I am going to be shippingapile of pictures and text off to NewYork and after nearly 2 millionimpressions on a Sharp 8800 copy machine I am retiring from the bookbusinessand thought that the program should be up to date as well. Wayne from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 18 10:49:54 1998 Subject: Rodmaker - Ed Pricer? All, I recently saw a used rod listed as being made by Ed Pricer, aCalifornia rodmaker. This was a new maker's name for me. I don't know inwhat time period Ed worked. (still works?) The rod had been reworkedwith a new seat and grip so I assume the rod wasn't of recent mfg. WasEd an amateur or professional maker? Does anyone have any knowledge atall of his work etc. It would be interesting to keep the flame alive with a written historyof some of these not well known makers. Thx, Don Burns from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Apr 18 13:00:04 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod In a message dated 98-04-18 11:02:49 EDT, you write: Dear Wayne I've been sitting here for half an hour staring at this on the screen, tryingmy best to come up with a reply that will do this image justice. Ken Kesey, are you lurking?. Davy from fiveside@net-gate.com Sat Apr 18 13:06:37 1998 ns1.net-gate.com (8.8.3/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA16277 for Subject: Recycled Shavings Whoosh To Those in Northern Climes:At last I can make a contribution to our rodmaking craft. Try packingyourshavings in paper bags. They make great fire starters. Whoosh. Bill from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat Apr 18 13:32:55 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Davy -The talk at breakfast one morning with Bruce, Leon, and myself wasthat wecould put a head on the robot in the likeness of Doug Swisher and run itaround to the shows. Wayne from anglport@con2.com Sat Apr 18 15:38:53 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id QAA17312 for Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Davy,Thanks for a good bellylaugh. I've been sitting here nursing a major P--- off(for no reason I could think of) and you broke me right out of it with yourcomment!Thanks again,(not Ken Kesey but),Art At 01:59 PM 4/18/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-04-18 11:02:49 EDT, you write: casting robot to test fly rods and fly lines. The project never flewbecauseof the wind tunnel and such that would be needed to create actual lifesituations. >> Dear Wayne I've been sitting here for half an hour staring at this on the screen, tryingmy best to come up with a reply that will do this image justice. Ken Kesey, are you lurking?. Davy from flyfisher@cmix.com Sat Apr 18 15:42:39 1998 Subject: New URL and bamboo/wood swelled butt picture All, I didn't closely follow the thread about a swelled butt and woodinserted into the butt. I did get a post today from someone that isfriends with a maker in Wis. that has rods like this. He posted the maker's new (Don Schroeder's new page and it maybe onlytemporarly up) - URL: http://www.geocities.com/Yosemite/Rapids/4433/schroeder.htm Don Burns from FLYROD777@aol.com Sat Apr 18 17:52:52 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Hope to see you in Grayrock! Mark from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Apr 18 18:29:26 1998 (205.236.249.183) Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod SalarFly wrote: In a message dated 4/17/98 7:28:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,stetzer@csd.uwm.edu writes: Don't take stress curve analysis too seriously. Its a poorrepresentationof what goes on with a flyrod, and it makes a lot of assumptions asguesses. Yes and no. It is true at first you can't plot a stress curve and expect toknow everything about how the rod will cast. But, if you can get a fewrods together, measure them, plot the stress curves and cast them,really get to know the casting characteristics, and try and relate themto the stress curve, then stress curves begin to become a goodrepresentation of the action of a flyrod. If you then go on and makechanges to the stress curve, make the rod, and thouroughly testthe rod, you will be able to get a real good idea of how a rod willcast by just looking at it's stress curve. Darryl Sir,this is reverse engineering if you work back from measuring old rods? There issurely no need for a computer programme working like this. Are yousuggestingthat a programme is only for newbies and that once experience is gainedyou donot need a computer? After all what is the difference between saystudying astress curve and a set of rod calibrations?Terry Ackland from hexagon@odyssee.net Sat Apr 18 18:33:43 1998 (205.236.249.183) Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod Ragnarig wrote: In a message dated 98-04-18 11:02:49 EDT, you write: casting robot to test fly rods and fly lines. The project never flewbecauseof the wind tunnel and such that would be needed to create actual lifesituations. >> Dear Wayne I've been sitting here for half an hour staring at this on the screen,tryingmy best to come up with a reply that will do this image justice. Ken Kesey, are you lurking?. Davy Perhaps attaching a Stanley 91/2 to the end of the robot arm would havemadethe shavings fly!Terry from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sat Apr 18 18:50:56 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Rust protection on forms List,I've never been accused of being shy about askingquestions, so here's one for ya. I just finished a set ofsteel planing forms. In the humid climate of Louisiana, doI dare put a little oil on the forms to prevent rust? Orwill that cause all kinds of problems with gluing the stripslater on, etc.? Without some sort of rust protection, theforms oxidize in a matter of hours. Will that really be aproblem?Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from harry37@epix.net Sat Apr 18 19:24:56 1998 UAA09685 Subject: Re: Rust protection on forms Harry Boyd wrote: List,I've never been accused of being shy about askingquestions, so here's one for ya. I just finished a set ofsteel planing forms. In the humid climate of Louisiana, doI dare put a little oil on the forms to prevent rust? Orwill that cause all kinds of problems with gluing the stripslater on, etc.? Without some sort of rust protection, theforms oxidize in a matter of hours. Will that really be aproblem?Thanks in advance,Harry BoydHarry, I have always used a light application of paste wax on the tables of mysaws with great results. The only downside would be the naturalslipperiness that the wax layer creates. I don't have a set of forms, soI can't comment on how well it would work for a planing form. Greg Kuntz from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat Apr 18 19:33:35 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod In a message dated 98-04-18 14:41:01 EDT, you write: Wayne If you want to make a hit at the shows, think Pam Anderson's... head... orsomething. Dressed properly, this could give added value to the windtunnel.Technology is, after all, for the people. Davy from jfoster@gte.net Sat Apr 18 19:55:05 1998 Subject: Re: Recycled Shavings Whoosh Bill My wife casts them in candle wax in cupcake papers, makes really greatstarters Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sat Apr 18 20:00:48 1998 Subject: Re: Rust protection on forms Harry Camellia oil works great jerry from jczimny@dol.net Sat Apr 18 20:09:04 1998 Subject: Re: Rust protection on forms There is a product, liquid, whose appellation is DynaGlide. I believe itis wax dissolved in solvent. It leaves a dry coating which discouragesrust yet does not transfer to the work. I would not use oil.John Zimny Harry Boyd wrote: List,I've never been accused of being shy about askingquestions, so here's one for ya. I just finished a set ofsteel planing forms. In the humid climate of Louisiana, doI dare put a little oil on the forms to prevent rust? Orwill that cause all kinds of problems with gluing the stripslater on, etc.? Without some sort of rust protection, theforms oxidize in a matter of hours. Will that really be aproblem?Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sat Apr 18 20:26:11 1998 SAA15053 doing-bs Subject: Surf Rod taper Anyone know of a source for tapers for spincasting surf rods? I wouldlike something that can handle 2-3 ounce sinkers and is around 10ft orlonger. Thomas PenroseBend, OR from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Sat Apr 18 22:30:56 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA11048 for Subject: Re: Grand silk order I would be interested in 5 spools of whatever color is chosen. from bairdart@burgoyne.com Sat Apr 18 23:12:09 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines I just recieved info from a gentleman named Tom Morgan. He makes areally nicemilling machine (hand). It has blade setups for four , five and six sidedrods.I have the info down at my studio. I will bring it home with me Sunday andforward on the info. It looks like a well thought out system from what ihaveseen so far. Bob B. CampblRods wrote: I'm interested if anyone knows of a beveler or milling machine for sale. Myshop has been limited too hand planing for the last six years. I wouldappreciate any help on locating a machine for my business. Thanks,Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Apr 19 00:42:39 1998 Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod In a message dated 4/18/98 4:32:02 PM Pacific Daylight Time,hexagon@odyssee.net writes: After all what is the difference between say studying astress curve and a set of rod calibrations? What ever works.... Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Sun Apr 19 01:48:31 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE9BD4F0138; Sun, 19 Apr 1998 00:50:03 MDT Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines At 10:09 PM 4/18/98 -0500, you wrote:I just recieved info from a gentleman named Tom Morgan. He makes areallynicemilling machine (hand). It has blade setups for four , five and six sidedrods.I have the info down at my studio. I will bring it home with me Sundayandforward on the info. It looks like a well thought out system from what ihaveseen so far. Bob B. CampblRods wrote: I'm interested if anyone knows of a beveler or milling machine for sale.Myshop has been limited too hand planing for the last six years. I wouldappreciate any help on locating a machine for my business. Thanks,Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com Bob;I sent in for the brochure on the Morgan beveller, it looks like a lot ofmoney for something that is basically a hand scraper/planing form. For$2000.00 I would want a powered machine that was going to save me a lotoftime. My .02John Channer from flyrod@artistree.com Sun Apr 19 02:02:30 1998 AAA19582 Subject: Re: Rust protection on forms A note from Frank Armbruster that came with my forms states that ColdRolled Steel rusts. There is no way around it. Everytime you touch theforms there is potential for rust. He cleans them with mineral spirtsand so far this has worked for me as well. He also states it is adifficult problem that he has learned to live with that it should noteffect the quality of the rod building. Sorry I could not be me morepositive but I do trust Frank's knowledge of metal working. Chris Wohlford from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Apr 19 06:15:45 1998 Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:15:32 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: First stab at Hexrod On Thu, 16 Apr 1998, stpete wrote: I'm interested in the PHY Driggs River posted by Wayne C. and reposted posted for 6" stations) and got the detailed report (extrapolations to1" dimensions). Then I got the planing form report for 5" increments. 1. Any problems with doing this kind of thing? Are we losing much in the translation from 6" readings to calculations for a 5" output? 2. Are the ferrule sizes computed by the program reliable? That is,if you've made a taper from the program did you find the computed ferrule size to be the proper one to use? 3. John Channer, the tapers were posted "backwards", that is 0" was something like .209 while 45" was .070. Also, the taper was listed with each section starting at '0'.Finally, the readings were for the '0' mard to be the thick end of the section and the 45" dimension being the thin end of each section.I now know what you mean by not knowing if you "got it right" when you enter that type of taper posting into Hexrod. It's much easiertoenter the dimensions of the assembled rod. Thanks for letting me inonTHAT. Hexrod virgin no longer, Rick This is a nice casting rod for it's type, so I'd suggest checking dimensions at 6" centres after you've set the form based on 5" centres. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun Apr 19 06:29:52 1998 Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:29:44 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Rust protection on forms On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, Harry Boyd wrote: List,I've never been accused of being shy about askingquestions, so here's one for ya. I just finished a set ofsteel planing forms. In the humid climate of Louisiana, doI dare put a little oil on the forms to prevent rust? Orwill that cause all kinds of problems with gluing the stripslater on, etc.? Without some sort of rust protection, theforms oxidize in a matter of hours. Will that really be aproblem?Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd Just keep using 'em, they'll stay shiny Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Apr 19 07:40:53 1998 (205.236.248.133) Subject: Re: Rust protection on forms Tony Young wrote: On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, Harry Boyd wrote: List,I've never been accused of being shy about askingquestions, so here's one for ya. I just finished a set ofsteel planing forms. In the humid climate of Louisiana, doI dare put a little oil on the forms to prevent rust? Orwill that cause all kinds of problems with gluing the stripslater on, etc.? Without some sort of rust protection, theforms oxidize in a matter of hours. Will that really be aproblem?Thanks in advance,Harry Boyd Just keep using 'em, they'll stay shiny Tony ***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Not always so Tony,some folk are born with "rusty fingers", whenever they touch steel itturnsinto rusty fingerprints overnight. When I was in an apprentice group wehad aguy that had to cover his work with oil before he went home. He was tolditwas an acid in the pores? perhaps this guy in LA suffers from thisproblem.Just being my usual contradictory self, Terry from SealRite@aol.com Sun Apr 19 09:28:19 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines Jeff Bellinger in Oregon used to make one. They are priced in the $2,800range, but do an excellent job. Stationary head, adjustable feed table.Based on the Dickerson design. Solid aluminum, Baldor motor, etc. Worksof atemplate. You set up a template for each taper. Craig Anderson from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Apr 19 10:28:43 1998 (205.236.248.154) Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines SealRite wrote: Jeff Bellinger in Oregon used to make one. They are priced in the $2,800range, but do an excellent job. Stationary head, adjustable feed table.Based on the Dickerson design. Solid aluminum, Baldor motor, etc. Works of atemplate. You set up a template for each taper. Craig Anderson To use these machines you have to start with a strip that has beenbevelled,andit only roughes the taper, leaving hand planing to finish.For me at least,putting an accurate 60deg angle on a strip made to the largestdimension of the taper is where all the hard work is, adding a taper takesbut afew light plane strokes.Terry from mfennell@tricon.net Sun Apr 19 11:52:42 1998 envelope- from (mfennell@tricon.net) Subject: Silk Order Count me in for two to three spools of each color of whatever you guysdecide! Mike Fennell from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun Apr 19 12:05:55 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines Terry l have l bellinger mill and l run 1/4 inch sq. strips thru it works just fine. l mill down to about .040 over heat treat and hand plane the rest . The cutis very smooth l think with some more practice l my be able to cut tofinishedsize. Gary from GLohkamp@aol.com Sun Apr 19 12:06:17 1998 Subject: Re: Rust protection on forms lve noticed that smokers leave alot of rusty finger prints on carbonsteel.Gary from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Apr 19 12:47:26 1998 Subject: Re: Rusty fingerprints Try playing a trombone in raw brass!! There is a prodct by blitzcloth calle"valve and slide care" that will help my horn, but it does leave an oilyresidue that I wouldn't want on my splines! Rob from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Apr 19 12:53:32 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Rust protection on forms Sorry, Gary, I don't smoke. The Louisiana climate is the problem, not thefellowwho made and uses the forms. I do want to say thanks to all who haveofferedsuggestions so far.Harrylve noticed that smokers leave alot of rusty finger prints on carbon steelGary from CampblRods@aol.com Sun Apr 19 13:22:28 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines Thanks Bob, I'll be looking for the info.S.N. Campbell from CampblRods@aol.com Sun Apr 19 13:23:35 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines Any idea of Bellinger's address, telephone, or E-mail?S.N.Campbell from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Apr 19 14:48:05 1998 (205.236.248.214) Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines Gary,I think you are right, practice is required with any of these machines. Iremembertalking to a guy that had purchased the Payne beveller and he could not getittowork. Most of these machines were very primitive, even the Orvis bevellerwas anold surface grinder and not a piece of purpose built equipment.An old rodmaker up here inMontreal showed me his beveller whichconsisted of along rack on which the pattern was clamped and the strip placed and justpushedthrough the ganged 30deg cutters. He sharpened the cutters himself making thetotal angle a few degrees less than 60 so that when the rod was glued upanyrollin the strip on machining was taken up in the center of the rod. I think ifthetruth was known most production rodmakers used this trick.Terry GLohkamp wrote: Terryl have l bellinger mill and l run 1/4 inch sq. strips thru it works justfine. l mill down to about .040 over heat treat and hand plane the rest . Thecutis very smooth l think with some more practice l my be able to cut tofinishedsize. Gary from bairdart@burgoyne.com Sun Apr 19 18:47:17 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines Contact: Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, 21505 Norris Road, Manhattan, Montana59741 Phone (406) 282 7110 Fax: (406) 282 7167 E.mail:rodsmiths@imt.net Web page: http://www.troutrods.com It looks andsounds like a great divise. When i called they were very helpful. Ireceived the brochure in less than a week from my request. I hope thiswill be of help to you. Bob B. CampblRods wrote: Thanks Bob, I'll be looking for the info.S.N. Campbell from CampblRods@aol.com Sun Apr 19 19:09:03 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines Thank you very much Bob. I appreciate the help.Steve Campbell from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Sun Apr 19 20:36:58 1998 bymssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id TAA04615 for Subject: Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo Flyrod Jon Lintvet wrote: I just picked up a copy in Jan. I believe it was 60.00, firstedition. If you can find it though a store or list you are lucky. Tryfly-fishing shows. Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Hey, I've got a first edition of Mr. Barnes' book. I'd be pleasedas punch to sell it for $60, if there are any takers. from dickay@alltel.net Sun Apr 19 21:39:13 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with ESMTP id AAA1043 0500 Subject: Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo Flyrod Matt, Contact me off-list with information. I'm interested Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Apr 19 21:40:54 1998 Subject: Re: Re: First stab at Hexrod Darryl,The bushwa about "delicate" presentation with"0", "1", and "2" wgts makesmelaugh. All I do is lengthen my leader on the tippet end. That short 5', 5wgtyou're building should do just fine-of course it helps to have long arms ifyou're in a belly boat. :-).Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Apr 19 21:43:07 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Grand silk order ChrisB-C 5175 would suit me also. I have a few spools but would get quite afewmore-they show up nicely on flamed rods unpreserved.Hank. from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Mon Apr 20 07:25:50 1998 with ESMTP id 332 for ;Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:29:07 -0500 Subject: Nodeless splice failures? I just finished planing and gluing splices for my first strip of splicedbamboo (practice). I used Titebond II glue and clamped each splice with3 pony clamps. After the strip had dried for 18 hours I tested thestrip. Disaster.....all of the splices failed. They were especiallyweak when bent left or right as compared to bending back & forth..Could it have been that the splice surfaces were too smooth for the glueto adhere effectively? Could the clamp pressure be too much resultingin not allow enough glue remaining in the splice? I will be planingmore splices soon and doing some more practice but wondered if any othernodeless rod builders have had similar experiences? Thanks for yourreplies! Jim Kubichek from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 20 09:16:44 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA28093 for; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:17:29 +0100 Subject: Loose ferrules Like everyone else who has access to a three jaw chuck, I have alwaystightened worn/loose ferrules by nipping up the female in the chuck. Itworks OK, but inevitably one feels that it's a bit of a bodge job - afterall, the ferrule will thereafter not be fitting perfectly, male to female -only on the compressed points. It doesn't give one the feeling that it's aproper job. I've had an idea, and I wonder whether the engineers amongst us can giveanopinion on it. It occurred to me that yacht rigging terminals are often swaged onto wirerigging with a sort of hydraulic press. This downsizes heavy stainlessferrules very efficiently. It seemed to me that if one can get a heavy SSferrule to compress evenly all round, it shouldn't be difficult to achievethe same with NS or brass. My thought is that it should be possible to fit plain wheels (rather thancutting wheels) to a straddle knurler, then tighten up at slow lathe speedto achieve gradual but entirely even compression on the tube - sufficienttodownsize the tiny amount that is required to restore a fit. The ferrulewould obviously need a mandrel, or at least a live tailstock centre tosupport it. It's got to work better than the butchery of three jaw pinching, surely. There are many designs and proprietary makes of straddle knurler. I'veattached a photograph of one featured by the British magazine, ModelEngineer - but I've seen better. Don't plumbers do something similar to copper pipes? John Cooper (England) from jcooper@interalpha.co.uk Mon Apr 20 09:26:30 1998 post.interalpha.net (8.8.7/8.6.11) with SMTP id PAA28492 for; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:27:04 +0100 boundary="=====================_893078694==_" Subject: Loose ferrules --=====================_893078694==_ Sorry - missed attachment on the first post. Like everyone else who has access to a three jaw chuck, I have alwaystightened worn/loose ferrules by nipping up the female in the chuck. Itworks OK, but inevitably one feels that it's a bit of a bodge job - afterall, the ferrule will thereafter not be fitting perfectly, male to female -only on the compressed points. It doesn't give one the feeling that it's aproper job. I've had an idea, and I wonder whether the engineers amongst us can giveanopinion on it. It occurred to me that yacht rigging terminals are often swaged onto wirerigging with a sort of hydraulic press. This downsizes heavy stainlessferrules very efficiently. It seemed to me that if one can get a heavy SSferrule to compress evenly all round, it shouldn't be difficult to achievethe same with NS or brass. My thought is that it should be possible to fit plain wheels (rather thancutting wheels) to a straddle knurler, then tighten up at slow lathe speedto achieve gradual but entirely even compression on the tube - sufficienttodownsize the tiny amount that is required to restore a fit. The ferrulewould obviously need a mandrel, or at least a live tailstock centre tosupport it. It's got to work better than the butchery of three jaw pinching, surely. There are many designs and proprietary makes of straddle knurler. I'veattached a photograph of one featured by the British magazine, ModelEngineer - but I've seen better. Don't plumbers do something similar to copper pipes? John Cooper (England)Received: from Ragnarig@aol.com Subject: Re: Loose ferrules Dear John Terry Acklund talked about this very process just the other day. Outfishingthen, were we? If you look back over last week's postings you'll see it,under "ferrules". Just found the ref. All the best,Davy from TSmithwick@aol.com Mon Apr 20 10:07:38 1998 Subject: Re: Loose ferrules John - The methods you describe would work, but there are some problems.Someyears ago I had similar thoughts and built a setup using a tubing cutter,replacing the cutting blade with a ball bearing the same size as thebackingwheels. All were less than 1/4" wide. The device worked, but had twoproblems.1) It worked too well, and it was easy to go too far. Also, the narrownessofthe rolls, meant you had to work in several stages along the ferrule, andgeteverything equal.2) The thing put a lot of torque on the rod section. I decided the ideal rig would have rolls about 3/4 inch long and that therolls should be crank driven to spin the ferrule without putting torque therod. I never found anything I could modify to accomplish this, and anythingIcould design was beyond my ability to build. Maybe you or someone elsecancome up with something. from rclarke@eou.edu Mon Apr 20 10:32:20 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine I spoke with Mark Metcalf on Friday and he said the issues would be out ina week or so. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: FISHWOOL Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod MagazineDate: Friday, April 17, 1998 5:45 PM I subscribed by mail a month ago and haven't received a thing.Hank. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon Apr 20 11:02:24 1998 gespliesst@bluewin.ch Wed Apr 15 09:54:06 1998 +0200 (METDST) Subject: Re: Warning - Bad preserver (sniped)what KK means in spanish?Regards. Hi Fernando, buenos dias, que tal(is that right?) KK is only the name of the preserver. Cordially Stefan from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 15 10:21:36 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id LAA04505 for Subject: PHY Para taper (Variances) All, I mentioned the other day thay I had a couple of rods to mike. This is thePara 15. Note that I have no way to tell the varnish thickness except as aSWAG (I think you call it). (Some questions below.) Here are the averages for the Para 15 Pos Tip 1 Tip 2 Wet 1 075 076 0595 096 097 08210 121 123 11415 128 129 11920 148 143 13725 172 171 17630 193 194 19135 3/4 202 199 196 (there's a guide at 35)40 215 216 21145 233 234 229 50 3/4 236 (there's another!)55 25460 26365 27370 28175 29180 29985 297 http://Home1.gte.net/jfoster/tapers/youngp15.html you'll see that the tips vary pretty wildly. Most of the raw data werewithin .002 of each other, the craziest were only about .005 off, flat toflat.Anybody care to comment? Am I just expecting too much? Art from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 15 11:52:46 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms In a message dated 4/14/98 10:32:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,Ragnarig@aol.comwrites: Is this the guy who carries those rosewood splines all the way back tothereel seat? Goes to a lot of shows? Interesting. No, the inserts were only in the swelled portion. The bamboo splines were normal, the only reason the butt was swelled was the rosewood. Where the swell started had an interesting sawtooth appearance because therosewoodhad to taper to a sharp point to be inserted between the bamboo splines. Darryl from jfoster@gte.net Wed Apr 15 12:10:26 1998 Subject: Re: PHY Para taper (Variances) Art Sorry i didn't respond sooner. If you can mic at even in. increments ithelps when you drop it into hexrod,, if your components fall on theboundries just slid up or fall back to the next even in. or go to bothsides. regards jerry from rmoon@ida.net Wed Apr 15 12:17:06 1998 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms Davy, Roobert Sigman in California is probably the man you were askingabout. He produces some modern bamboo rods with a distintive 19thcentury configuration with inlaid swelled butts. As I recall the inlaysdo go back to the reel seat. He does beautiful work Ralph from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Wed Apr 15 13:24:00 1998 dfw-ix7.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re:Mystery rod pix I thought I would pass this along. I've had less than desirable service from Small Parts Inc. (WWW.smallparts.com) lately. I've been ordering odditems such as endless belt material, etc. The first incident was morehumerous than irritating. Our 911 service informed us that they werechanging the house numbers on our street to better service this area. Thecounty instructed us to also change the mailing address as soon aspossible. I've been informing any mail order companies as I order tochange the address. I gave this information to Small Parts when I orderedseveral pieces of phosphor bronze last January. This information was notpassed on apparently, because I received three more calls to tell me myaddress was wrong. Each time I had to explain why my address waschanging. The order arrived about 10 days later with one item back ordered. I neverreceived the item even though my credit card was charged. I called themtoday and after being put on hold for 15 minutes was told the gentlemanwhohad handled my order was out and would not be back until after noon andwould call me back. I got a little upset then and told her the office wasmoving and I wouldn't be there to answer the phone so please either creditmy card or send me the item. Don't know if that worked; I am going onvacation to try out one of the rods I've built since joining the list.Guess I will find out after I get back. I'm going up to Arkansas to try a little warm water fishing and ifeverything works out, some trout fishing on the Little Red. I'll let youknow how the fishing is when I get back. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Wed Apr 15 14:00:33 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);15 Apr 98 15:04:11 EST EST Subject: Finish Hello Rod Builders,I know this is a baited question. I refinished a bamboo and used a urethane spar over the entire rod - bamboo as well as thread. I am pretty happy with my handiwork - hey - I have low standards! I am now ready to finish my first graphite rod. A nice little St Croix 7', 3wt, 2 pc. I have read the Skip Morris book and the Garcia Book, but still have those newbie questions lingering. Should I use Gudebrod 5 minute epoxy on the thread wraps? Could I use the urethane spar? I don't have a rotating device. I expect to rotate manually. If I use 5 min epoxy, it should be dry in 5 minutes at 70 degrees and moderate humidity. Will it sag after 10 - 15 minutes? If this goes well, I may have to refinish the bamboo again!!! Thanks in advance,Joe Mulvey from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Apr 15 14:02:18 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Swelled butt forms If you guys are interested in those mahogany inserts, some good picturesofsimilar rods by Thomas and Thomas are included in Silvio Calabi's "TheCollector's Guide To Antique Fishing Tackle." Kinda makes me wonder,How'd theydo that?Harry SalarFly wrote: In a message dated 4/14/98 10:32:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,Ragnarig@aol.comwrites: Is this the guy who carries those rosewood splines all the way back tothereel seat? Goes to a lot of shows? Interesting. No, the inserts were only in the swelled portion. The bamboo splineswerenormal, the only reason the butt was swelled was the rosewood. Wheretheswell started had an interesting sawtooth appearance because therosewoodhad to taper to a sharp point to be inserted between the bamboo splines. Darryl from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 15 14:20:20 1998 Subject: Re: Re:Mystery rod pix Art,Yes I got them monday but I haven't really had a chance to look at them. Iwill sit down and look at them tonite.Bret from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 15 14:28:56 1998 Subject: Re: Finish In a message dated 4/15/98 12:03:39 PM Pacific Daylight Time,jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us writes: Should I use Gudebrod 5 minute epoxy on the thread wraps? Could I use the urethane spar? I don't have a rotating device. I expect to rotate manually. If I use 5 min epoxy, it should be dry in 5 minutes at 70 degrees and moderate humidity. Will it sag after 10 - 15 minutes? No don't use 5 minute epoxy. It will kick over way too quickly andyou won't have enough time to get the bubbles out, smooth outthe epoxy, etc. If you want to use epoxy, use the regular longset epoxy made for thread wraps. It sets in about an hour. If youare going to do a few rods, invest in a rod turning motor. Cabela'shas a reasonably priced one for approx. $20 (Of course it's notas robust as the Flexcoat motor, but it will work). Darryl Hayashida from flyrod@artistree.com Wed Apr 15 14:30:59 1998 MAA01215 Subject: Recycled Shavings This might seem like a strange question but has anyone used theirshavings for mulch or compost in their garden? Have a ton of shavings(figuratively speaking of course) and was thinking of putting it to gooduse. Does it break down quickly or does it take some time? Will morethan likely give it a try but any insight would be appreciated. Thanksin advance. Chris Wohlford from thramer@presys.com Wed Apr 15 14:48:43 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Recycled Shavings C.J. Wohlford wrote: This might seem like a strange question but has anyone used theirshavings for mulch or compost in their garden? Have a ton of shavings(figuratively speaking of course) and was thinking of putting it to gooduse. Does it break down quickly or does it take some time? Will morethan likely give it a try but any insight would be appreciated. Thanksin advance. Chris WohlfordThe bamboo shavings break down rather slowly. If you have a good activecompost pile then you can add a judicious amount once in a while.A.J.Thramer from brown.mark@usa.net Wed Apr 15 16:38:00 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Finish Have a look at the Manhattan Tackle website (http://fishdoc.com/). Ofcourse they push their own product MCT -which is very good by the way- but the rodbuilding section has some really nice tips. The latex gloveapplication method works very well on graphite and someone on this listwas impressed with the technique on his bamboo blanks as well. They hadamethod for building up the guide wraps with epoxy similar to Winston rodswhich worked very well for me. Hope this helpsMark in Calgary Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello Rod Builders,I know this is a baited question. I refinished a bamboo and used aurethane spar over the entire rod - bamboo as well as thread. I ampretty happy with my handiwork - hey - I have low standards! I am now ready to finish my first graphite rod. A nice little StCroix 7', 3wt, 2 pc. I have read the Skip Morris book and the GarciaBook, but still have those newbie questions lingering. Should I use Gudebrod 5 minute epoxy on the thread wraps? Could Iuse the urethane spar? I don't have a rotating device. I expect torotate manually. If I use 5 min epoxy, it should be dry in 5 minutesat 70 degrees and moderate humidity. Will it sag after 10 - 15minutes? If this goes well, I may have to refinish the bamboo again!!! Thanks in advance,Joe Mulvey from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 15 16:54:33 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05365 for Subject: Re: PHY Para taper (Variances) Jerry, I'm sorry too. That rod went back to its owner last night. There's nore-miking it now! I have one or two other "double-mics" from which I maybeable to interpolate "on-the-inch" dimensions. I'll give it a try and explainmy methods if I forward any new data. The worst part is that I used thattechnique on three other rods and they're gone now too!Art At 11:08 AM 4/15/98 -0500, you wrote:Art Sorry i didn't respond sooner. If you can mic at even in. increments ithelps when you drop it into hexrod,, if your components fall on theboundries just slid up or fall back to the next even in. or go to bothsides. regards jerry from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 15 16:58:05 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05582 for Subject: Re:Mystery rod pix At 03:19 PM 4/15/98 EDT, you wrote:Art,Yes I got them monday but I haven't really had a chance to look at them. Iwill sit down and look at them tonite.Bret Bret,I wasn't trying to rush you. I just wanted to know if they got there.Thanks in advance,Art from fer@surfplanet.com Wed Apr 15 17:17:34 1998 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21541 for; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:18:52 GMT Subject: Re: Spain Donald Kovach wrote: Fernando,I saw your post regarding color preservers, and it piqued mycuriosity about your location. Are you anywhere near the Malagaarea. I ask because my sister and brother-in-law currently livethere. My brother-in- law is a fanatical flyfisherman from Canada, andis constantly looking for new fishing opportunities. He is a convertto bamboo flyrods, but does not have any exposure to others with asimilar interest. Even if you are not in that part of Spain, if youhappen to know of anyone in the area that is into flyfishing, I couldpass the info along. Thanks,Don Kovach P.S. I have been to Spaintwice, and it remains my favorite European country. Hello Don, Thanks for your kind words. I'm afraid I don't live near by Malaga,I live in Madrid and I'm not aware of the best south fishing spots. Thebest action though is around middle and north of Spain, where you canstill find very good native populations, sea trouts and even someatlantic salmons. Anyway you can tell your brother-in-law that I'malways ready to fly fishing if he comes around. Regards,Fernando Rada. from amcsmith@nlis.net Wed Apr 15 17:19:59 1998 Subject: new to bamboo gentlemen i am new to bamboo rods but over the past couple of years have discoverdthat i cannot afford or find enough good rods to feed my habbit my firstproject is to restore a h&i 9' approx 7wt?. the glue seems ok but ferrulesand wraps are bad.i have all the pieces and your guidance would help greatly. any info onthreads glue books anything would be of great help. from dpeaston@wzrd.com Wed Apr 15 17:25:38 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA18921 for Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:__PFLUEGER_Medalist_1492_=96_2=BE"_?= I have an opportunity to buy a Medalist 1942 - 2 3/4" Reel. Two questionspop up:1. Does this reel have the odd sort or foot which does not fit most reelseats?2. How much 3, 4, or 5 wt. line will it hold? Thanks in advance, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from fer@surfplanet.com Wed Apr 15 17:32:39 1998 bigfoot.cesatel.es (8.7.5/8.7.3) with ESMTP id WAA21681 for; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 22:34:30 GMT Subject: Re: Warning - Bad preserver gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: (sniped)what KK means in spanish?Regards. Hi Fernando, buenos dias, que tal(is that right?) KK is only the name of the preserver. Cordially Stefan Hi Stefan, Ok. As I can see how everybody is unfamiliar with Cervantes language(I know I should improve my Shakespeare too), I'll explain my let's saydistinguished joke: KK is pronounced in spanish as "caca" which isnothing but sh... Regards,Fernando Rada. from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 15 17:37:02 1998 Subject: RE:new to bamboo RO>gentlemen RO>i am new to bamboo rods but over the past couple of years havediscoverdRO>that i cannot afford or find enough good rods to feed my habbit myfirstRO>project is to restore a h&i 9' approx 7wt?. the glue seems ok butferrulesRO>and wraps are bad.RO>i have all the pieces and your guidance would help greatly. any info onRO>threads glue books anything would be of great help. Look for Michael Sinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook" @ $25.00(US$) - Cabela's and others carry it. Then get yourself a copy of anAngler's Workshop catalog and order your thread and such items fromthem. Don Burns PS - Angler's own silk thread, for the most part, has the same # asYLI's in Sinclair's book. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Apr 15 18:05:32 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA28810 +0100 Subject: Test, delete SAA08103 Just another test...................... from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Apr 15 18:15:17 1998 Subject: Re: PFLUEGER Medalist 1492 2*" Doug,#1 - Yes, the reelfoot requires filing down to fit most reelseats,unless you can find one of Bill Franke's "Pfoots" (no longer made).#2 - It will hold a modern #4DTF with a little backing, but justbarely. No way a #5. However, if you cut a DT in half, you could do it.Best regards,Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Apr 15 18:16:19 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit FISHWOOL wrote:May's just as bad but June gets better- TTBBQ!Regards,Hank.P.S. Hope we'll see you at Greyrock.Hank,I'll meet you at Spike's.Reed from rcurry@top.monad.net Wed Apr 15 18:19:52 1998 Subject: Re: Router bit/rat race Haftel, Dennis, CT wrote: Reed, This rat is stuck deep in the maze, no cheese in sight!!! I'd like tohear some of those plans! Dennis Haftel Dennis,I personally favor selective amnesia. Longterm disability willcompensate me if I should, through loss of memory, be unable to operatea comput)(#%^@@@@&%*(^%$ from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 15 19:09:25 1998 with SMTP id AAA27713 for ;Thu, 16 Apr 1998 00:08:51 +0000 withlast message Subject: Re: Router bit/rat race TAA13940 Reed, Touche' !!! I'll keep racing... For now! Dennis Haftel ----------Haftel, Dennis, CT wrote: Reed, This rat is stuck deep in the maze, no cheese in sight!!! I'd like tohear some of those plans! Dennis Haftel Dennis,I personally favor selective amnesia. Longterm disability willcompensate me if I should, through loss of memory, be unable to operatea comput)(#%^@@@@&%*(^%$ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Wed Apr 15 19:20:12 1998 Subject: Re: Thanks to A.J. etc. A.J. and the gang,I just did the tape on-the-guides test on my latest raw blank and the 4'4"isa little screamer! (a little trombonist's lingo 'dere) There is no handlereelseat or anything on her yet but yeow! whata cool little rod! It seemedtolike the 4 and 3wt equally depending on which side of 20' I was casting.Manythanks to You A.J. for a fun taper. And thanks to Chris Bogart as it's myfirst nodeless, and to Mr Stetzer as I converted it to a 1pc.Now back to work... Rob Hoffhines from channer@hubwest.com Wed Apr 15 21:04:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A7757570136; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 20:05:41 MDT Subject: Ammonia treatment Dr. Bamboo (a.k.a George Maurer);Would you be so kind as to explain treatment with ammonia carbonateHowdoyou go about it and what kind of color can you get? I like the color ofHeddon and Phillipson rods, can I expect to get this color withoutsteamingequipment? Thanks in advanceJohn Channer from 3i2i7n3@cmuvm.csv.cmich.edu Wed Apr 15 21:46:04 1998 CMUVM.CSV.CMICH.EDU(IBM VM SMTP V2R4) with TCP; Wed, 15 Apr 98 22:45:34 EDT Subject: Re: PFLUEGER Medalist 1492 =?iso-8859-1?Q?=96?==?iso-8859- 1?Q?_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?2=BE?= Doug, My experience has been that, yes, the 1492 DOES have a foot thatdoes not fit well with ordinary reel seats. I had an occasion to fit a corkreel seat to a Pfluger reel, and it was a whole lot of free hand work. The reel could, of course be refitted with a different foot, butthat would require some machining, etc, and probably isn't worth the work the second largely irrelevant. But you can just get a 5wt line on the reelwith a bit of backing. At 06:23 PM 4/15/98 -0400, you wrote:I have an opportunity to buy a Medalist 1942 - 2 3/4" Reel. Two questionspop up:1. Does this reel have the odd sort or foot which does not fit most reelseats?2. How much 3, 4, or 5 wt. line will it hold? Thanks in advance, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY Mark M. FreedDepartment of English Language and LiteratureCentral Michigan University from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Wed Apr 15 23:18:01 1998 SMTP idVAA23154 for ; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 21:17:54 Subject: Re: Recycled Shavings C.J. Wohlford wrote: This might seem like a strange question but has anyone used theirshavings for mulch or compost in their garden? Have a ton of shavings(figuratively speaking of course) and was thinking of putting it to gooduse. Does it break down quickly or does it take some time? Will morethan likely give it a try but any insight would be appreciated. Thanksin advance. Chris WohlfordI was told that the shavings make excellent packing material. But, ifyou want to use them in the garden, use them as mulch. Don't use them ascompost because they probably break down slowly. Spread a layer about3-4 inches thick around the drip line of your trees and shrubs and itshould cut down on watering by about 50%. You can also, if you havestrawberry plants, place a layer under the plants so the berries don'trest on the soil. It will keep the fruit from rotting befor its ripe.Besides, the birds can use it for nesting material. Lovely Bamboo!!! Traver Becker from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 15 23:43:48 1998 Subject: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! Last year I bought a bundle of cane from Andy Royerthat I didn't think was top quality. The appearancewas great, but the power fiber layer was thin. I wrotein to this list giving my opinion back then. I just got a few culms of his latest shipment, andthey are excellent! They are about 3" at the base, and all of them are still at least 2 1/4" at the top of the culm. And power fiber like you wouldn't believe!Most of the culms have at least 1/4 of an inch thickpower fiber at the base (13/32" total wall thickness)and the power fibers are still 1/8 of an inch (7/32" wall thickness) at the top of the culm. I could tell right away these culms were loaded with power fiber from the heft when I first picked them up. Appearanceis excellent also, light straw colored, with only a few water marks, and no leaf scars. There is a little mold at the ends of a couple of the culms, but it is minor. I highly reccommend Andy Royer's latest batch ofcane, and I am going to order some more to putaway to season. Let's hope he will be able tocontinue to supply Tonkin Cane like this inthe future. Good job Andy! Darryl Hayashida from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 15 23:44:25 1998 Subject: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine Just got off of the phone with Mark Metcalf.He wants me to let this list know that thesecond issue is in the mail and all whohave subscribed should be getting themsoon. from stpete@netten.net Wed Apr 15 23:58:08 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA12153 for Subject: Re: taper suggestion- remiked tapers john channer wrote: Guys;I hope this doesn't sound like a complaint, because it isn't, I reallyappreciate the tapers that have been posted on the list, they are veryinformative, but I would like to suggest that when an old rod ismeasured that the measurements be taken with the rod assembled andstarting at the tip. There have been some tapers posted with the numbersgoing from the butt forward and some starting over at each ferrule and Iam never sure if I am getting them right when I enter them into Hexrod.Iam sure this will make things a little easier for everyone. Thanks againto all those that have gone to the trouble to post tapers.John Channer OK, John, that would be me. I guess it is obvious that I am a novicehere. I read the tapers as if I had to set them up on my planing form.I have remiked the rods with them assembled and there is a difference. I suppose that it is also obvious that I don't (or haven't) run taperson Hexrod. I'm taking everyone's word on tapers and those damn chartsand graphs don't mean much to me yet. But I really should start withTHESE rods, because I know how they cast and I could actually start abaseline on reading stress curves. With all that said, and keeping inmind that this info could be worth less than what you're paying forit... Heddon Premier #115 8'6", 3/2, 2F, HDH or E.I'm estimating .003 varnish 0 .0855 .10110 .11015 .12320 .14025 .15030 .167 33.75" = welt end of female ferrule on mid 36 .17340 .17945 .19750 .21055 .22660 .24265 .254 68.38" = welt end of female ferrule on butt 70 .28675 .29880 .30985 .323 swell begins in earnest88 .33589 .37690 .41190.5 .426 91" = brass winding check and wraps begin Phillipson Pacemaker, 8'0", 3/2, 5 wt I estimate .004 varnish (measured where ferrule had been taped atdipping) 0 .0705 .08510 .09615 .10920 .12525 .13730 .149 31.125" = welt on female ferrule on mid 35 .18140 .19545 .20350 .21155 .22660 .238 62.88" = welt on female ferrule on butt 65 .26370 .27275 .28580 .29685 .359 Learnin' sumpin' new each day. Rick from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 16 00:16:57 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4864390134; Wed, 15 Apr 1998 23:17:58 MDT Subject: Re: taper suggestion- remiked tapers At 11:54 PM 4/15/98 -0500, you wrote:john channer wrote: Guys;I hope this doesn't sound like a complaint, because it isn't, I reallyappreciate the tapers that have been posted on the list, they are veryinformative, but I would like to suggest that when an old rod ismeasured that the measurements be taken with the rod assembled andstarting at the tip. There have been some tapers posted with the numbersgoing from the butt forward and some starting over at each ferrule and Iam never sure if I am getting them right when I enter them into Hexrod.Iam sure this will make things a little easier for everyone. Thanks againto all those that have gone to the trouble to post tapers.John Channer OK, John, that would be me. I guess it is obvious that I am a novicehere. I read the tapers as if I had to set them up on my planing form.I have remiked the rods with them assembled and there is a difference. I suppose that it is also obvious that I don't (or haven't) run taperson Hexrod. I'm taking everyone's word on tapers and those damn chartsand graphs don't mean much to me yet. But I really should start withTHESE rods, because I know how they cast and I could actually start abaseline on reading stress curves. With all that said, and keeping inmind that this info could be worth less than what you're paying forit... Heddon Premier #115 8'6", 3/2, 2F, HDH or E.I'm estimating .003 varnish 0 .0855 .10110 .11015 .12320 .14025 .15030 .167 33.75" = welt end of female ferrule on mid 36 .17340 .17945 .19750 .21055 .22660 .24265 .254 68.38" = welt end of female ferrule on butt 70 .28675 .29880 .30985 .323 swell begins in earnest88 .33589 .37690 .41190.5 .426 91" = brass winding check and wraps begin Phillipson Pacemaker, 8'0", 3/2, 5 wt I estimate .004 varnish (measured where ferrule had been taped atdipping) 0 .0705 .08510 .09615 .10920 .12525 .13730 .149 31.125" = welt on female ferrule on mid 35 .18140 .19545 .20350 .21155 .22660 .238 62.88" = welt on female ferrule on butt 65 .26370 .27275 .28580 .29685 .359 Learnin' sumpin' new each day. Rick Rick;I hope you didn't take that personally you are far from the first to post ataper I couldn't translate, but you are the first to provide me theopportunity to check my powers of deduction. I guess I'm not as smart as Ithought I was, I missed the numbers by enough to invalide the tapers Icameup with the first time. Thanks alot, I'm sorry to have caused you a lot ofextra work and I appreciate the correction.John Channer from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Thu Apr 16 05:03:29 1998 Subject: RE: Recycled Shavings I use what little shavings I have as tinder to start my wood burning stove. -----Original Message-----From: tbeckfam@pacbell.net [SMTP:tbeckfam@pacbell.net]Sent: Wednesday, April 15, 1998 10:53 PM Subject: Re: Recycled Shavings C.J. Wohlford wrote: This might seem like a strange question but has anyone used theirshavings for mulch or compost in their garden? Have a ton of shavings(figuratively speaking of course) and was thinking of putting it to gooduse. Does it break down quickly or does it take some time? Will morethan likely give it a try but any insight would be appreciated. Thanksin advance. Chris WohlfordI was told that the shavings make excellent packing material. But, ifyou want to use them in the garden, use them as mulch. Don't use them ascompost because they probably break down slowly. Spread a layer about3-4 inches thick around the drip line of your trees and shrubs and itshould cut down on watering by about 50%. You can also, if you havestrawberry plants, place a layer under the plants so the berries don'trest on the soil. It will keep the fruit from rotting befor its ripe.Besides, the birds can use it for nesting material. Lovely Bamboo!!! Traver Becker from jstickle@erols.com Thu Apr 16 05:24:51 1998 Subject: Re: Finish I can't speak to the bamboo rod but my advice with the graphite is tostay with the tried and true, Flex Coat high build or thin or Clemen'sCrystal coat. I have found that rotating by hand every 15 minutes is enough to producea smooth finish on guides. I would also suggest getting either ofClemen's books, Fiberglass Rod Making or (and preferred) Advanced CustomRod Building. Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello Rod Builders,I know this is a baited question. I refinished a bamboo and used aurethane spar over the entire rod - bamboo as well as thread. I ampretty happy with my handiwork - hey - I have low standards! I am now ready to finish my first graphite rod. A nice little StCroix 7', 3wt, 2 pc. I have read the Skip Morris book and the GarciaBook, but still have those newbie questions lingering. Should I use Gudebrod 5 minute epoxy on the thread wraps? Could Iuse the urethane spar? I don't have a rotating device. I expect torotate manually. If I use 5 min epoxy, it should be dry in 5 minutesat 70 degrees and moderate humidity. Will it sag after 10 - 15minutes? If this goes well, I may have to refinish the bamboo again!!! Thanks in advance,Joe Mulvey from jstickle@erols.com Thu Apr 16 05:30:27 1998 Subject: Re: PFLUEGER Medalist 1492 =?iso-8859-1?Q?2=BE?=" Here's one of Lefty Kreh's "Little Tips" - To find out how much line toput on a fly reel wind on the fly line first and them fill withbacking. Of course, it will be a good idea to then reverse the process. Reed F. Curry wrote: Doug,#1 - Yes, the reelfoot requires filing down to fit most reelseats,unless you can find one of Bill Franke's "Pfoots" (no longer made).#2 - It will hold a modern #4DTF with a little backing, but justbarely. No way a #5. However, if you cut a DT in half, you could do it.Best regards,Reed from harry37@epix.net Thu Apr 16 07:13:11 1998 IAA28876 Subject: Re: Finish Jeffrey R. Stickle wrote: I can't speak to the bamboo rod but my advice with the graphite is tostay with the tried and true, Flex Coat high build or thin or Clemen'sCrystal coat. I have found that rotating by hand every 15 minutes is enough to producea smooth finish on guides. I would also suggest getting either ofClemen's books, Fiberglass Rod Making or (and preferred) AdvancedCustomRod Building. Joe Mulvey wrote: Hello Rod Builders,I know this is a baited question. I refinished a bamboo and used aurethane spar over the entire rod - bamboo as well as thread. I ampretty happy with my handiwork - hey - I have low standards! I am now ready to finish my first graphite rod. A nice little StCroix 7', 3wt, 2 pc. I have read the Skip Morris book and the GarciaBook, but still have those newbie questions lingering. Should I use Gudebrod 5 minute epoxy on the thread wraps? Could Iuse the urethane spar? I don't have a rotating device. I expect torotate manually. If I use 5 min epoxy, it should be dry in 5 minutesat 70 degrees and moderate humidity. Will it sag after 10 - 15minutes? If this goes well, I may have to refinish the bamboo again!!! Thanks in advance,Joe Mulvey Joe, If you're looking for a high build, you should also consider u-40 ultragloss--you will need a turner, though. It's a 2-part that takes about3-5 hours to turn over, depending on the ambient temperature. Forgraphite work, you only need one coat, and it flattens out nicely. I'mtold that this is the finish Sage uses on its factory rods. Greg from dpeaston@wzrd.com Thu Apr 16 07:50:23 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA17479; Thu, 16 Apr 199808:48:21 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_PFLUEGER_Medalist_1492__2=BE"?= At 06:29 AM 4/16/98 -0400, Jeffrey R. Stickle wrote:Here's one of Lefty Kreh's "Little Tips" - To find out how much line toput on a fly reel wind on the fly line first and them fill withbacking. Of course, it will be a good idea to then reverse the process. Reed F. Curry wrote: Doug,#1 - Yes, the reelfoot requires filing down to fit most reelseats,unless you can find one of Bill Franke's "Pfoots" (no longer made).#2 - It will hold a modern #4DTF with a little backing, but justbarely. No way a #5. However, if you cut a DT in half, you could do it.Best regards,Reed Thanks much guys, I do not have the reel. It is on some one's list,otherwise the little tip would work fine. I do not think I will purchacethe reel since it has the dammnable foot problem. Thanks again, Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from AWood70928@aol.com Thu Apr 16 08:03:44 1998 Subject: Finish - for Bamboo Rods Hey All, I spoke with Phil at Manhattan Custom Tackle about his MPC finish and hetoldme that many bamboo builders were now using epoxy on their rods. GreenRiverRods I am led to believe uses an epoxy finish over their wraps. My question is, if you wrap after you varnish, what is everyone using for afinish on their wraps? Is there a trend towards some of the new thinnerepoxies? Thanks for you help. Al WoodardManchester, NH from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 16 08:24:28 1998 Subject: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_PFLUEGER_Medalist_1492__2=BE"?= RO>Thanks much guys, I do not have the reel. It is on some one's list,RO>otherwise the little tip would work fine. I do not think I will purchaceRO>the reel since it has the dammnable foot problem. RO>Thanks again, RO>Doug EastonRO>Tonawanda, NYRO>> > > Doug, Look at the Lamiglass Stillwater reels - comes in 3/4 and 5/6 versionsand the cost is about $50. Cast AL frame and spool - spool iscounterwt'ed too. Has a clicker drag. The Elite brand is also a nice reel for the money. (about the samespec's) Don Burns PS - The Diawa ST-506 is a nice 5/6 wt. reel if you can find a used one. from birnbaum@cheme.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu Thu Apr 16 08:24:46 1998 (echem16392.ECHEM.CWRU.Edu aa016926 for ; Thu, 16 Apr 1998 09:24:14-0400 Subject: Re: Royer Bamboo - Excellent! I would appreciate anyone providing an address to reach Andy Royer. Thanks, Seymour Birnbaum SalarFly wrote: Last year I bought a bundle of cane from Andy Royerthat I didn't think was top quality. The appearancewas great, but the power fiber layer was thin. I wrotein to this list giving my opinion back then. I just got a few culms of his latest shipment, andthey are excellent! They are about 3" at the base,and all of them are still at least 2 1/4" at the topof the culm. And power fiber like you wouldn't believe!Most of the culms have at least 1/4 of an inch thickpower fiber at the base (13/32" total wall thickness)and the power fibers are still 1/8 of an inch (7/32"wall thickness) at the top of the culm. I could tellright away these culms were loaded with power fiber from the heft when I first picked them up. Appearanceis excellent also, light straw colored, with only a fewwater marks, and no leaf scars. There is a little moldat the ends of a couple of the culms, but it is minor. I highly reccommend Andy Royer's latest batch ofcane, and I am going to order some more to putaway to season. Let's hope he will be able tocontinue to supply Tonkin Cane like this inthe future. Good job Andy! Darryl Hayashida from destinycon@mindspring.com Thu Apr 16 08:45:57 1998 Subject: ferrules This morning while glueing the ferrules on a three piece, 7' 4 wt., when Iattached the male ferrule to the tip section I THOUGHT that I had theferrule seated and the air driven out (using epoxy glue). However, tyingthe ends with thread, over time the ferrule "crept" up ca. 1/8" on me.Question: do I simply try to gently heat the ferrule and push it down? Do Iremove it completely and reattach? Do I use it as is and see how manydayson the stream it takes for it to break? Or do I begin immediately to builda new tip section? In the event that I can remove it for reglueing, what isthe solvent to use to clean glue out of the ferrule? It's darned tiny!!Thanks in advance, Jerry Snider. from thramer@presys.com Mon Apr 20 11:59:50 1998 0000 Subject: Bellinger Beveller Jeff Bellinger has been ill and Al has been struggling to fill thecurrent committments they had for the bevelers they had on order. It wasmy understanding that he was not going to accept any more orders forthem.In the under 2K price range the only available one I know about wasthe pre beveler made by Whitehead in Seattle. I don't know if he stillmakes them available.My beveler ran about 6K to have built.Cris Lucker seems to have an encyclopedic knowlege of bevelerdesigns.....A.J.Thramer from rcurry@top.monad.net Mon Apr 20 12:06:54 1998 Subject: Delicate Presentations FISHWOOL wrote: Darryl,The bushwa about "delicate" presentation with"0", "1", and "2" wgtsmakes melaugh. All I do is lengthen my leader on the tippet end. That short 5',5wgtyou're building should do just fine-of course it helps to have long arms ifyou're in a belly boat. :-).Hank.Hank,Yet another instance of the sausage lines manufactured today makingfishing more difficult. A silk line of 5wt., would have a terminaldiameter of .025".Do you suppose the advance of graphite, the call for higher linespeeds/tighter loops, is in order to improve presentation? I think,rather that it came about because the increased air resistance of therotund lines required it. To overcome the obese level line at theterminal end, they now sell waxed, tapered, braided leaders. What arethese but an attempt to extend and thin the line... and mimic silk?When is SA going to come out with a decent braided (silk ornylon)floating line?Close of tirade,Reed from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Apr 20 12:10:25 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 20Apr 1998 13:11:56 -0400 Subject: Starrett and Mitutoyo I will soon be carrying Starett and Mitutoyo tools. I would like to hear from some of the guys out there using their tools. Suggestions Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Mon Apr 20 13:14:35 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 20 Apr 98 14:13:39 EDT Subject: Re: Loose ferrules Many thanks for the suggestions for correcting/finetuning ferrule fits.(I'm glad I didn't thrash the offending member over the weekend and beforeI read all your suggestions. Your suggestions are hugely helpful.) Itmakes lots of sense to mount the ferrule and then fit male to female, butwhat would you do if you were blueing the ferrule (which is what I did)?You really must fit before blueing correcto? And you wouldnt dare dip theferrule into the blueing solution when premounted on the rod section??(I'monly guessing here that the Payne type solution would have negativeeffectson raw cane, glues etc.) Although maybe it would be better to premounttheferrule on the rod sections without glueing, fit the male and female,remove the ferrule, blue, remount and glue. Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from CALucker@aol.com Mon Apr 20 13:16:44 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller In a message dated 98-04-20 13:02:11 EDT, you write: AJ -- I seem to have learned so much about mills and bevelers because Imadeso many that didn't quite work before I finally started making successfulmills. of talking to folks who know how a good mill should be built. I amthankfulto guys like Charlie Jenkins, Sam Carlson, Tim Bedford, Ron Kusse, PressPowell, Tony Maslan, Bob Summers, Dawn Holbrook, Dick Sherman, PerBrandin andmy Grandfather for giving me ideas and solving my problems. I especiallythank the late Tim Bedford for allowing me to use Dickerson's equipment. If you want to make a simple finish mill, go buy a used horizontal metalmilling machine and convert the thing. All you need is a lathe and commonsense to make some of the parts. You will end up with a heavy, accuratelathethat will be better than anything I have seen for sale. Chris Lucker from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Apr 20 13:58:53 1998 Subject: Re: Delicate Presentations Reed,It doesn't sound like a tirade to me , Reed. The only thing keeping mefromsilk lines is the cost.Regards,Hank. from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 20 14:08:01 1998 Subject: Delicate Presentations (Was: First stab at Hexrod) In a message dated 4/19/98 7:45:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: The bushwa about "delicate" presentation with"0", "1", and "2" wgtsmakesmelaugh. All I do is lengthen my leader on the tippet end. That short 5',5wgtyou're building should do just fine-of course it helps to have long armsifyou're in a belly boat. :-). I generally fish with a 12' leader, and I think I'm coming up with thesame conclusions you are. I haven't noticed my fly landing with anyless force when I use a 2 or 3 wt. What I have noticed is when fishingin a place with small fish as with most the local places - S. Calif. isreally a desert after all - the feedback, or feel is better with the lighterweight rods when there is a fish on. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 20 14:13:41 1998 Subject: Re: Delicate Presentations In a message dated 4/20/98 12:04:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: It doesn't sound like a tirade to me , Reed. The only thing keeping mefromsilk lines is the cost. Me too. I would love to try one, cost is too much. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 20 14:56:07 1998 Subject: Re: ferrules I would remove it (using gentle heat) and reglue.Acetone softens hardened epoxy after a while.Use a little jar and soak the ferrule for a coupledays (after it is off), then use a toothpick to clean out the softened epoxy. I used to put jade knife handles on Buck folding knives. To get the wood handles off I soaked the knives in acetone. They were glued on with epoxy. After a couple days under acetone they just floated off. Darryl from thramer@presys.com Mon Apr 20 15:01:19 1998 0000 Subject: 0Weights, Silk The 0 wgt rods are NOT 0 wt!. Where did these plasic rod guys get theAFTMA size balls to rate there rods the way that they do is completelybeyond me. The rod is supposed to be rated with 30 ft of line. The rodsare underrated at least 2 weights and often 4 sizes. The blend of poorcasting technique and tournament tapered rods has led to a laughable. Ihave always maintained that a 3wt bamboo is as light a rod as ispractical consistent with not killing fish from exhaustion. Fortunatelythe bamboo community is the last bastion of truth in line weight rating,and a few other things. Don't EVEN get me started on lifetime warrantyfish poles and why a rod that should cost $200 is priced at $600. Do yousuppose that the full color ad spreads in your favorite mag of BS isfree do you? The rags exist only to sell, the same recycled articles areused only as filler between the ads. The fewer pages of drivel you willaccept to seperate the glossy product shots the more profit for thepublisher. Bamboo offers REAL value not just hyped latest and greatest.The used value indicated this with some authority.Well the pipe is going like a smokestack at GM and is as overheated asthe owner now!End of current rant,A.J.Thramer from dmanders@ccinet.ab.ca Mon Apr 20 15:08:23 1998 0600 Subject: Re: ferrules At 12:02 20/04/98 -0400, you wrote:This morning while glueing the ferrules on a three piece, 7' 4 wt., when Iattached the male ferrule to the tip section I THOUGHT that I had theferrule seated and the air driven out (using epoxy glue). However, tyingthe ends with thread, over time the ferrule "crept" up ca. 1/8" on me.Question: do I simply try to gently heat the ferrule and push it down? Do Iremove it completely and reattach? Do I use it as is and see how manydayson the stream it takes for it to break? Or do I begin immediately to builda new tip section? In the event that I can remove it for reglueing, what isthe solvent to use to clean glue out of the ferrule? It's darned tiny!!Thanks in advance, Jerry Snider. Jerry, I have run into the same problem. Took ferrule off and cleaned out the gluewith a reamer. Does a good job except for the last 0.010" or so. Then Imodified a dental pick to get the last of it out. The reamer did remove aminute amount of NS but didn't seem to hurt anything.When you buy a reamer - if there is a point @ the end - just grind if justabout off - this will allow the reamer to set just about to the bottom. Ihold the ferrule in the 3 jaw after I have removed it and clamped in thesoft jaws of my vice. I then use my tail stock chuck to hole the reamertool and turn things by hand. Some reamers are ground so you can use a taphandle. I have found that the spiral reamers work a tad better. Don from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Mon Apr 20 16:05:54 1998 16:05:04-0500 16:05:04-0500 Subject: Re: RODMAKERS digest 954 Hello, How do I respond to one specific title in the digest?Do I need to write to the one e-mail address associatedwith the article of interest or just respond like I am doingright now, to Rodmakers digest 954?JP At 03:02 PM 4/20/98 CDT, you wrote: RODMAKERS Digest 954 Topics covered in this issue include: 1) Re: Bevelers or Milling machines 2) Re: Bevelers or Milling machines 3) Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo Flyrod 4) Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo Flyrod 5) Re: First stab at Hexrod 6) Re: Grand silk order 7) Nodeless splice failures? 8) Loose ferrules 9) Loose ferrules 10) Re: Loose ferrules 11) Re: Loose ferrules 12) Re: Bamboo Flyrod Magazine 13) ferrules 14) Bellinger Beveller 15) Delicate Presentations 16) Starrett and Mitutoyo 17) Re: Loose ferrules 18) Re: Bellinger Beveller 19) Re: Delicate Presentations 20) Delicate Presentations (Was: First stab at Hexrod) 21) Re: Delicate Presentations Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 17:44:09 -0500From: Bob Baird Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machinesMessage-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Contact: Tom Morgan Rodsmiths, 21505 Norris Road, Manhattan, Montana59741 Phone (406) 282 7110 Fax: (406) 282 7167 E.mail:rodsmiths@imt.net Web page: http://www.troutrods.com It looks andsounds like a great divise. When i called they were very helpful. Ireceived the brochure in less than a week from my request. I hope thiswill be of help to you. Bob B. CampblRods wrote: Thanks Bob, I'll be looking for the info.S.N. Campbell Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 20:08:11 EDTFrom: CampblRods Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machinesMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Thank you very much Bob. I appreciate the help.Steve CampbellDate: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 19:37:02 -0600From: Matt Clifford Subject: Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo FlyrodMessage-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jon Lintvet wrote: I just picked up a copy in Jan. I believe it was 60.00, firstedition. If you can find it though a store or list you are lucky. Tryfly-fishing shows. Jon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558(607) 277- 9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Hey, I've got a first edition of Mr. Barnes' book. I'd be pleasedas punch to sell it for $60, if there are any takers. Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 21:33:31 -0500From: "Dick & Kathy Fuhrman" Subject: Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo FlyrodMessage-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Matt, Contact me off-list with information. I'm interested Dick Fuhrmandickay@alltel.net Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:31:31 EDTFrom: FISHWOOL Subject: Re: First stab at HexrodMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Darryl,The bushwa about "delicate" presentation with"0", "1", and "2" wgtsmakes melaugh. All I do is lengthen my leader on the tippet end. That short 5', 5wgtyou're building should do just fine-of course it helps to have long arms ifyou're in a belly boat. :-).Hank.Date: Sun, 19 Apr 1998 22:31:36 EDTFrom: FISHWOOL Subject: Re: Grand silk orderMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit ChrisB-C 5175 would suit me also. I have a few spools but would get quite afewmore-they show up nicely on flamed rods unpreserved.Hank.Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 07:23:24 -0500From: jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Subject: Nodeless splice failures?Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I just finished planing and gluing splices for my first strip of splicedbamboo (practice). I used Titebond II glue and clamped each splice with3 pony clamps. After the strip had dried for 18 hours I tested thestrip. Disaster.....all of the splices failed. They were especiallyweak when bent left or right as compared to bending back & forth..Could it have been that the splice surfaces were too smooth for the glueto adhere effectively? Could the clamp pressure be too much resultingin not allow enough glue remaining in the splice? I will be planingmore splices soon and doing some more practice but wondered if anyothernodeless rod builders have had similar experiences? Thanks for yourreplies! Jim Kubichek Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:15:19 +0100From: "J.Cooper" Subject: Loose ferrulesMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Like everyone else who has access to a three jaw chuck, I have alwaystightened worn/loose ferrules by nipping up the female in the chuck. Itworks OK, but inevitably one feels that it's a bit of a bodge job - afterall, the ferrule will thereafter not be fitting perfectly, male to female -only on the compressed points. It doesn't give one the feeling that it's aproper job. I've had an idea, and I wonder whether the engineers amongst us can giveanopinion on it. It occurred to me that yacht rigging terminals are often swaged ontowirerigging with a sort of hydraulic press. This downsizes heavy stainlessferrules very efficiently. It seemed to me that if one can get a heavy SSferrule to compress evenly all round, it shouldn't be difficult to achievethe same with NS or brass. My thought is that it should be possible to fit plain wheels (rather thancutting wheels) to a straddle knurler, then tighten up at slow lathe speedto achieve gradual but entirely even compression on the tube - sufficienttodownsize the tiny amount that is required to restore a fit. The ferrulewould obviously need a mandrel, or at least a live tailstock centre tosupport it. It's got to work better than the butchery of three jaw pinching, surely. There are many designs and proprietary makes of straddle knurler. I'veattached a photograph of one featured by the British magazine, ModelEngineer - but I've seen better. Don't plumbers do something similar to copper pipes? John Cooper (England) Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:24:54 +0100From: "J.Cooper" Subject: Loose ferrulesMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0Content-Type: multipart/mixed;boundary="=====================_893078694==_" Sorry - missed attachment on the first post. Like everyone else who has access to a three jaw chuck, I have alwaystightened worn/loose ferrules by nipping up the female in the chuck. Itworks OK, but inevitably one feels that it's a bit of a bodge job - afterall, the ferrule will thereafter not be fitting perfectly, male to female -only on the compressed points. It doesn't give one the feeling that it's aproper job. I've had an idea, and I wonder whether the engineers amongst us can giveanopinion on it. It occurred to me that yacht rigging terminals are often swaged ontowirerigging with a sort of hydraulic press. This downsizes heavy stainlessferrules very efficiently. It seemed to me that if one can get a heavy SSferrule to compress evenly all round, it shouldn't be difficult to achievethe same with NS or brass. My thought is that it should be possible to fit plain wheels (rather thancutting wheels) to a straddle knurler, then tighten up at slow lathe speedto achieve gradual but entirely even compression on the tube - sufficienttodownsize the tiny amount that is required to restore a fit. The ferrulewould obviously need a mandrel, or at least a live tailstock centre tosupport it. It's got to work better than the butchery of three jaw pinching, surely. There are many designs and proprietary makes of straddle knurler. I'veattached a photograph of one featured by the British magazine, ModelEngineer - but I've seen better. Don't plumbers do something similar to copper pipes? John Cooper (England) Attachment Converted: "c:\eudora\attach\knurler.jpg"Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:52:27 EDTFrom: Ragnarig Subject: Re: Loose ferrulesMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Dear John Terry Acklund talked about this very process just the other day. Outfishingthen, were we? If you look back over last week's postings you'll see it,under "ferrules". Just found the ref. diacopper pipe. Take the cutting blade out and clamp onto the female ferruleandclamp and turn, clamp and turn until you get the fit req. The ferrule mustbeon the rod.> All the best,DavyDate: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 11:02:49 EDTFrom: TSmithwick Subject: Re: Loose ferrulesMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit John - The methods you describe would work, but there are someproblems. Someyears ago I had similar thoughts and built a setup using a tubing cutter,replacing the cutting blade with a ball bearing the same size as thebackingwheels. All were less than 1/4" wide. The device worked, but had twoproblems.1) It worked too well, and it was easy to go too far. Also, thenarrowness ofthe rolls, meant you had to work in several stages along the ferrule, andgeteverything equal.2) The thing put a lot of torque on the rod section. I decided the ideal rig would have rolls about 3/4 inch long and that therolls should be crank driven to spin the ferrule without putting torquetherod. I never found anything I could modify to accomplish this, andanything Icould design was beyond my ability to build. Maybe you or someone elsecancome up with something.Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 08:30:42 -0700From: "Robert Clarke" Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod MagazineMessage-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I spoke with Mark Metcalf on Friday and he said the issues would be out ina week or so. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: FISHWOOL Subject: Re: Bamboo Flyrod MagazineDate: Friday, April 17, 1998 5:45 PM I subscribed by mail a month ago and haven't received a thing.Hank.Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 12:02:09 -0400From: Jerry Snider Subject: ferrulesMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 This morning while glueing the ferrules on a three piece, 7' 4 wt., when Iattached the male ferrule to the tip section I THOUGHT that I had theferrule seated and the air driven out (using epoxy glue). However, tyingthe ends with thread, over time the ferrule "crept" up ca. 1/8" on me.Question: do I simply try to gently heat the ferrule and push it down? Do Iremove it completely and reattach? Do I use it as is and see how manydayson the stream it takes for it to break? Or do I begin immediately to builda new tip section? In the event that I can remove it for reglueing, what isthe solvent to use to clean glue out of the ferrule? It's darned tiny!!Thanks in advance, Jerry Snider.Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 10:04:27 -0700From: "A.J.Thramer" Subject: Bellinger BevellerMessage-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Jeff Bellinger has been ill and Al has been struggling to fill thecurrent committments they had for the bevelers they had on order. It wasmy understanding that he was not going to accept any more orders forthem.In the under 2K price range the only available one I know about wasthe pre beveler made by Whitehead in Seattle. I don't know if he stillmakes them available.My beveler ran about 6K to have built.Cris Lucker seems to have an encyclopedic knowlege of bevelerdesigns.....A.J.ThramerDate: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:08:35 -0400From: "Reed F. Curry" Subject: Delicate PresentationsMessage-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FISHWOOL wrote: Darryl,The bushwa about "delicate" presentation with"0", "1", and "2" wgtsmakes melaugh. All I do is lengthen my leader on the tippet end. That short 5',5wgtyou're building should do just fine-of course it helps to have long armsifyou're in a belly boat. :-).Hank.Hank,Yet another instance of the sausage lines manufactured today makingfishing more difficult. A silk line of 5wt., would have a terminaldiameter of .025".Do you suppose the advance of graphite, the call for higher linespeeds/tighter loops, is in order to improve presentation? I think,rather that it came about because the increased air resistance of therotund lines required it. To overcome the obese level line at theterminal end, they now sell waxed, tapered, braided leaders. What arethese but an attempt to extend and thin the line... and mimic silk?When is SA going to come out with a decent braided (silk ornylon)floating line?Close of tirade,ReedDate: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 13:09:52 +0000From: "Jon Lintvet" Subject: Starrett and MitutoyoMessage-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7BIT I will soon be carrying Starett and Mitutoyo tools. I would like to hear from some of the guys out there using their tools. Suggestions Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:16:48From: Robert Milardo Subject: Re: Loose ferrulesMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Many thanks for the suggestions for correcting/finetuning ferrule fits.(I'm glad I didn't thrash the offending member over the weekend andbeforeI read all your suggestions. Your suggestions are hugely helpful.) Itmakes lots of sense to mount the ferrule and then fit male to female, butwhat would you do if you were blueing the ferrule (which is what I did)?You really must fit before blueing correcto? And you wouldnt dare diptheferrule into the blueing solution when premounted on the rod section??(I'monly guessing here that the Payne type solution would have negativeeffectson raw cane, glues etc.) Although maybe it would be better to premounttheferrule on the rod sections without glueing, fit the male and female,remove the ferrule, blue, remount and glue. Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:12:04 EDTFrom: CA Lucker Subject: Re: Bellinger BevellerMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 98-04-20 13:02:11 EDT, you write: current committments they had for the bevelers they had on order. Itwasmy understanding that he was not going to accept any more orders forthem.In the under 2K price range the only available one I know about wasthe pre beveler made by Whitehead in Seattle. I don't know if he stillmakes them available.My beveler ran about 6K to have built.Cris Lucker seems to have an encyclopedic knowlege of bevelerdesigns.....A.J.Thramer >> AJ -- I seem to have learned so much about mills and bevelers because Imadeso many that didn't quite work before I finally started making successfulmills. of talking to folks who know how a good mill should be built. I amthankfulto guys like Charlie Jenkins, Sam Carlson, Tim Bedford, Ron Kusse, PressPowell, Tony Maslan, Bob Summers, Dawn Holbrook, Dick Sherman, PerBrandinandmy Grandfather for giving me ideas and solving my problems. I especiallythank the late Tim Bedford for allowing me to use Dickerson's equipment. If you want to make a simple finish mill, go buy a used horizontal metalmilling machine and convert the thing. All you need is a lathe andcommonsense to make some of the parts. You will end up with a heavy, accuratelathethat will be better than anything I have seen for sale. Chris Lucker Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:51:27 EDTFrom: FISHWOOL Subject: Re: Delicate PresentationsMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Reed,It doesn't sound like a tirade to me , Reed. The only thing keeping mefromsilk lines is the cost.Regards,Hank.Date: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:05:30 EDTFrom: SalarFly Subject: Delicate Presentations (Was: First stab at Hexrod)Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/19/98 7:45:54 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: The bushwa about "delicate" presentation with"0", "1", and "2" wgtsmakesmelaugh. All I do is lengthen my leader on the tippet end. That short 5',5wgtyou're building should do just fine-of course it helps to have longarms ifyou're in a belly boat. :-). I generally fish with a 12' leader, and I think I'm coming up with thesame conclusions you are. I haven't noticed my fly landing with anyless force when I use a 2 or 3 wt. What I have noticed is when fishingin a place with small fish as with most the local places - S. Calif. isreally a desert after all - the feedback, or feel is better with the lighterweight rods when there is a fish on. DarrylDate: Mon, 20 Apr 1998 15:07:18 EDTFrom: SalarFly Subject: Re: Delicate PresentationsMessage-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit In a message dated 4/20/98 12:04:18 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: It doesn't sound like a tirade to me , Reed. The only thing keeping mefromsilk lines is the cost. Me too. I would love to try one, cost is too much. Darryl from jdunnigan@wyle.com Mon Apr 20 16:10:16 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA7E44 0700 0700 Subject: RE: 0Weithts, Silk =_NextPart_000_01BD6C62.ECF44C30" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6C62.ECF44C30 A.J. That was one of the best rants I have seen. Not to mention that these =magazines destroy some of the best trout waters by advertising them to =the LL Bean Crowd. Nothing like seeing your favorite trout stream in =the mags then next time you go there there are a bunch of fly fisherman =talking about how they should preserve this resource, and how it needs =to be saved. As they preach about all these streams should be catch and =release, usually they handle the fish so poorly that most of the fish =die. Then some famous writer will write some book about a river that =he/she has only fished for enough time to take a pile of pictures. I had =this one fly fishing writer tell me how the Beaverhead needs to be =saved, because it is not a catch and release fly fishing water. Little =did he realize the Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks electroshocks the =stream every year to maintain adequate records of fish population etc, = Why cant we fly fishermen learn to enjoy quiet water, without crowds, =and deny the urge to tell everyone about it. Once we realize this I =will no longer view fly fishermen as a plague of locust poised to =descend and clog any stream the possesses the possibility of catching =that "large" trout. Look at the San Juan, Green, Beaverhead, Silver = -----Original Message----- Subject: 0Weights, Silk The 0 wgt rods are NOT 0 wt!. Where did these plasic rod guys get theAFTMA size balls to rate there rods the way that they do is completelybeyond me. The rod is supposed to be rated with 30 ft of line. The rodsare underrated at least 2 weights and often 4 sizes. The blend of poorcasting technique and tournament tapered rods has led to a laughable. Ihave always maintained that a 3wt bamboo is as light a rod as ispractical consistent with not killing fish from exhaustion. Fortunatelythe bamboo community is the last bastion of truth in line weight rating,and a few other things. Don't EVEN get me started on lifetime warrantyfish poles and why a rod that should cost $200 is priced at $600. Do yousuppose that the full color ad spreads in your favorite mag of BS isfree do you? The rags exist only to sell, the same recycled articles areused only as filler between the ads. The fewer pages of drivel you willaccept to seperate the glossy product shots the more profit for thepublisher. Bamboo offers REAL value not just hyped latest and greatest.The used value indicated this with some authority.Well the pipe is going like a smokestack at GM and is as overheated asthe owner now!End of current rant,A.J.Thramer------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6C62.ECF44C30 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6C62.ECF44C30-- from CALucker@aol.com Mon Apr 20 16:33:59 1998 Subject: Re: 0Weithts, Silk In a message dated 98-04-20 17:13:19 EDT, you write: I don't like crowded waters any more than the rest of you. However, youmustremember that as long as our streams are public with few restrictions,anyone,and any LL Bean, and any Fly Fisherman Magazine has the right toencourage thecrowds to enjoy the public resource. If you want uncrowded waters, private ownership is the key. I know thisphilosophy is not popular in a world where too many people confuse rightswithprivileges. What irritates me is when the public thinks it has the right to access toprivate property. Or even worse, when a well-known save our fisheriesorganization trespasses on your property, clears a section of blackberries from the bank of a creek flowing through your property so the organizationmayhave a picnic and meeting about an endangered species off fish, and me thelandowner gets a summons for altering vegetation in a riparian corridor! Chris Lucker from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Apr 20 16:45:27 1998 Subject: Re: 0Weights, Silk AJ, How do you realy feel? ;-) Gary H. At 01:05 PM 4/20/98 -0700, you wrote:The 0 wgt rods are NOT 0 wt!. Where did these plasic rod guys get theAFTMA size balls to rate there rods the way that they do is completelybeyond me. The rod is supposed to be rated with 30 ft of line. The rodsare underrated at least 2 weights and often 4 sizes. The blend of poorcasting technique and tournament tapered rods has led to a laughable. Ihave always maintained that a 3wt bamboo is as light a rod as ispractical consistent with not killing fish from exhaustion. Fortunatelythe bamboo community is the last bastion of truth in line weight rating,and a few other things. Don't EVEN get me started on lifetime warrantyfish poles and why a rod that should cost $200 is priced at $600. Do yousuppose that the full color ad spreads in your favorite mag of BS isfree do you? The rags exist only to sell, the same recycled articles areused only as filler between the ads. The fewer pages of drivel you willaccept to seperate the glossy product shots the more profit for thepublisher. Bamboo offers REAL value not just hyped latest and greatest.The used value indicated this with some authority.Well the pipe is going like a smokestack at GM and is as overheated asthe owner now!End of current rant,A.J.Thramer from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Apr 20 17:20:26 1998 Subject: The Lovely Reed As I stepped onto the deck on my way into the house this afternoon Isawthat UPS had dropped a box off . The Box was from Anger's Art and inopeningit I discovered a copy of Jack Howell's new book 'The Lovely Reed'. So forthepast 2 hours I have been reading in the yard swing. The mid spring day isfarbetter than the -27 degree evening than Jack and I met in Grand Rapids. Ithink he has done a great job and would like to congratulate him. Wayne from thramer@presys.com Mon Apr 20 18:20:08 1998 0000 Subject: How Do I Feel? I admit it , I'm a tad peeved. I however have toned down how I reallyfeel! A few other peeves that I will someday have to unload on, strikebobbers, bead head nymphs, neoprene waders, fly floatant that does notfloat, filled cork, tobacco Nazis, teaching my children Social StudiesNOT History, fake bamboo rods.I promise that I will maintain my subdued and critical analysisthough!A.J.Thramer from cbogart@shentel.net Mon Apr 20 18:20:22 1998 TAA13568;Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:20:15 -0400 Subject: Re: Delicate Presentations HankThe last one I got at the Middleburg show cost all of $7.00 - neverleftthe original container and still had tags on the end. They are out there tobehad if you get lucky or traded for - just ask Reed - he always will work a deal. Chris On Mon, 20 Apr 1998 14:51:27 EDT, FISHWOOL wrote: Reed,It doesn't sound like a tirade to me , Reed. The only thing keeping mefromsilk lines is the cost.Regards,Hank. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Apr 20 18:30:01 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Re[3]: Finish Rich,MEK is a standard thinner used to thin epoxy and of course laquer. Nastystuff bad on the liver and central nervous system. You guys who are usingthese hot thinners make sure you wash real good after contact and andthat youdon't inhale to much of it. Also if you are using it in your basement makesure you have adequate ventilation as the fumes building up can goBOOOOMMMM.I knew a lady that was using it in her basement and she let the fumesbuild upand lit a cigarette. Needless to say she blew the hell out of herself.Bret from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Apr 20 18:32:49 1998 Subject: Re: 0Weights, Silk A J Thanks for the rant; you saved me the trouble! I'll just go out now and split some firewood (yes we still have a fire here)and I'll be fine. Davy from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 20 18:42:24 1998 Subject: RE:How Do I Feel? RO>I admit it , I'm a tad peeved. I however have toned down how I reallyRO>feel! A few other peeves that I will someday have to unload on, strikeRO>bobbers, bead head nymphs, neoprene waders, fly floatant that does notRO>float, filled cork, tobacco Nazis, teaching my children Social StudiesRO>NOT History, fake bamboo rods.RO> I promise that I will maintain my subdued and critical analysisRO>though!RO>A.J.Thramer A.J., Did you have a visit with Terry Ackland recently? Don B. PS - I agree with most of your rage - the neoprene wader one has mepuzzled - unless you're against float tubes also? The old crotch getsmighty cold elseways. PPS - You left out email systems that don't work - I'm not sure if yougot my last about the jasper thread being on the way. (Sent fromCanerods@aol.com?) from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 20 18:42:25 1998 Subject: RE: 0Weithts, Silk And just how much paper is used for all those tear-out, ball-up,toss-out useless bingo cards in these same magazines? And where does the paper come from - it comes from clear-cutting of thedrainage next to the trout streams these same magazines want to "save"! Don Burns PS - This is national turn off your TV week. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon Apr 20 19:12:56 1998 Subject: Re: The Lovely Reed Wayne,I also received The Lovely Reed friday and I read it over the weekend. Ithought it was well written and I must say I learned quite a bit from it. Iwould recommend this to anyone who wants a different slant on buildingrods.Huhm ( I wonder if a video will follow)?Bret from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 20 19:46:57 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ACD1F5C0138; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:48:17 MDT At 12:02 PM 4/20/98 -0400, you wrote:This morning while glueing the ferrules on a three piece, 7' 4 wt., when Iattached the male ferrule to the tip section I THOUGHT that I had theferrule seated and the air driven out (using epoxy glue). However, tyingthe ends with thread, over time the ferrule "crept" up ca. 1/8" on me.Question: do I simply try to gently heat the ferrule and push it down? Do Iremove it completely and reattach? Do I use it as is and see how manydayson the stream it takes for it to break? Or do I begin immediately to builda new tip section? In the event that I can remove it for reglueing, what isthe solvent to use to clean glue out of the ferrule? It's darned tiny!!Thanks in advance, Jerry Snider. Jerry;I had the same thing happen to me . I heated the ferrule and removed it,the soaked it in acetone overnite to get rid of the glue. When I reglued it, I made sure I scratched a groove in the cane for the excess glue and airto escape.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 20 19:51:29 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ADDDB27013C; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:52:45 MDT Subject: Re: Loose ferrules At 02:16 PM 4/20/98, you wrote:Many thanks for the suggestions for correcting/finetuning ferrule fits.(I'm glad I didn't thrash the offending member over the weekend andbeforeI read all your suggestions. Your suggestions are hugely helpful.) Itmakes lots of sense to mount the ferrule and then fit male to female, butwhat would you do if you were blueing the ferrule (which is what I did)?You really must fit before blueing correcto? And you wouldnt dare diptheferrule into the blueing solution when premounted on the rod section??(I'monly guessing here that the Payne type solution would have negativeeffectson raw cane, glues etc.) Although maybe it would be better to premounttheferrule on the rod sections without glueing, fit the male and female,remove the ferrule, blue, remount and glue. Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 Bob;Blue the ferrules first, then glue to rod, then fit together, just becareful with the sandpaper that you don't scratch the part that shows. Youwant to get any blueing off the slide portion of the male anyway.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 20 19:54:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE85B2D013C; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 18:55:33 MDT Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller At 02:12 PM 4/20/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-04-20 13:02:11 EDT, you write: current committments they had for the bevelers they had on order. Itwasmy understanding that he was not going to accept any more orders forthem.In the under 2K price range the only available one I know about wasthe pre beveler made by Whitehead in Seattle. I don't know if he stillmakes them available.My beveler ran about 6K to have built.Cris Lucker seems to have an encyclopedic knowlege of bevelerdesigns.....A.J.Thramer >> AJ -- I seem to have learned so much about mills and bevelers because Imadeso many that didn't quite work before I finally started making successfulmills. of talking to folks who know how a good mill should be built. I amthankfulto guys like Charlie Jenkins, Sam Carlson, Tim Bedford, Ron Kusse, PressPowell, Tony Maslan, Bob Summers, Dawn Holbrook, Dick Sherman, PerBrandinandmy Grandfather for giving me ideas and solving my problems. I especiallythank the late Tim Bedford for allowing me to use Dickerson's equipment. If you want to make a simple finish mill, go buy a used horizontal metalmilling machine and convert the thing. All you need is a lathe andcommonsense to make some of the parts. You will end up with a heavy, accuratelathethat will be better than anything I have seen for sale. Chris Lucker I wish you guys would stop casually talking about spending thousands ofdollars on mills and bevelers, you're making us working class folksjealous.John(broke asusual)Channer from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Apr 20 20:28:40 1998 Subject: Re: Loose ferrules I don't like deforming the female in any way.By a chuck or any otherway.The best way I have found to tighten a loose male is to electro plate themalewith Nickel.You can add as much as you want.Usually all you need is around .001 to .003 in. Then you can hand lap the male to the female for aperfectfit. Dave L. from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 20 20:31:04 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A728B69013C; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:32:24 MDT Subject: Re: 0Weights, Silk At 01:05 PM 4/20/98 -0700, you wrote:The 0 wgt rods are NOT 0 wt!. Where did these plasic rod guys get theAFTMA size balls to rate there rods the way that they do is completelybeyond me. The rod is supposed to be rated with 30 ft of line. The rodsare underrated at least 2 weights and often 4 sizes. The blend of poorcasting technique and tournament tapered rods has led to a laughable. Ihave always maintained that a 3wt bamboo is as light a rod as ispractical consistent with not killing fish from exhaustion. Fortunatelythe bamboo community is the last bastion of truth in line weight rating,and a few other things. Don't EVEN get me started on lifetime warrantyfish poles and why a rod that should cost $200 is priced at $600. Do yousuppose that the full color ad spreads in your favorite mag of BS isfree do you? The rags exist only to sell, the same recycled articles areused only as filler between the ads. The fewer pages of drivel you willaccept to seperate the glossy product shots the more profit for thepublisher. Bamboo offers REAL value not just hyped latest and greatest.The used value indicated this with some authority.Well the pipe is going like a smokestack at GM and is as overheated asthe owner now!End of current rant,A.J.Thramer A.J.;I used to wonder why something with about $100 in material and $60- $80inlabor costs $500 retail until I thought about what all those adds mustcost. If I was going to buy another graphite( I donated the only one I had,a St. Croix ) I would probably have to buy a South Bend or something Inever see any full page adds for, or buy a used rod and let someone elsepay for the advertising.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 20 20:31:31 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A744B6A013C; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:32:52 MDT Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? At 04:24 PM 4/20/98 -0700, you wrote:I admit it , I'm a tad peeved. I however have toned down how I reallyfeel! A few other peeves that I will someday have to unload on, strikebobbers, bead head nymphs, neoprene waders, fly floatant that does notfloat, filled cork, tobacco Nazis, teaching my children Social StudiesNOT History, fake bamboo rods.I promise that I will maintain my subdued and critical analysisthough!A.J.Thramer A.J.Why does everyone I run into on the San Juan ask me why I don't use anymphand a strike indicator? I usually wind up telling then that if I wanted tofish a worm I would use a spinning rod like you're supposed to. I will fishnymphs if nothing has risen in about a week, but I draw the line at weightand indicators. To me, flyfishing is casting a fly, not lobbing a weight..01 from John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 20 20:31:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A7502E50140; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:33:04 MDT Subject: RE: 0Weithts, Silk At 04:41 PM 4/20/98 -0600, you wrote:magazines destroy some of the best trout waters by advertising them tothe LLBean Crowd. Nothing like seeing your favorite trout stream in the magsthennext time you go there there are a bunch of fly fisherman talking abouthow theyshould preserve this resource, and how it needs to be saved. As theypreachabout all these streams should be catch and release, usually they handlethefish so poorly that most of the fish die. Then some famous writer willwritesome book about a river that he/she has only fished for enough time totake apile of pictures. I had this one fly fishing writer tell me how theBeaverheadneeds to be saved, because it is not a catch and release fly fishing water.Little did he realize the Montana Fish Wildlife and Parks electroshocksthestream every year to maintain adequate records of fish population etc,andsetslimits/ regulations correctly. >> And just how much paper is used for all those tear-out, ball-up,toss-out useless bingo cards in these same magazines? And where does the paper come from - it comes from clear-cutting of thedrainage next to the trout streams these same magazines want to "save"! Don Burns PS - This is national turn off your TV week. Don;Television has a great deal to do with why I build bamboo rods, there is nobetter, more serene place than the shop when all the women in the housewant to watch sitcoms. At least we have satellite so I can watch wildlifeprograms and History every once in a while.John Channer from CampblRods@aol.com Mon Apr 20 20:39:16 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller Chris, are you making any bevelers for sale? If so, I would be interestedinthe details and price. Thanks, Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.19 Sargent DriveBrewer,Maine 04412CampblRods@aol.com from LECLAIR123@aol.com Mon Apr 20 20:40:11 1998 Subject: Re: Loose ferrules Bob,The best way is to glue the ferrules onto the blanks.Then fit themale to female.Then, mask off the cane at the end were it meets the ferrule.Alsomask off the male ferrule were it goes into the female.When you dip theferrulesinto the oxidizer,lower it in untill you have only the ferrule in thesolution.You can see thru the bottle.Don't worry about getting the oxidizer on the cane.Ifyou glued the ferrule on properly and masked the cane with masking tape,youwon't have any problem with the solution damaging the cane.Afterdipping,rinse in water.I use two containers .Dip into the first one and then into thesecondone. Then wipe dry with a paper towel. Dave L. from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 20 20:42:16 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A9C97C900C2; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 19:43:37 MDT Subject: Heddon tapers Randy Hicks;Thanks for the tapers on the two Heddon's. It will be interesting to mikemy 9' #14 HCH to see if the taper is similar to your President. By the way,nice form that you use, I can't seem to get more organised than a plainsheet of paper, but I have at least progressed enough to use a new piece as slow. I think every Heddon that I have seen in the catalogs has beencalled Med/fast.Thanks againJohn Channer from kgabd@clsp.uswest.net Mon Apr 20 20:55:08 1998 Subject: Re: Loose ferrules LECLAIR123 wrote: I don't like deforming the female in any way.By a chuck or any otherway.The best way I have found to tighten a loose male is to electro plate themalewith Nickel.You can add as much as you want.Usually all you need is around .001 to .003 in. Then you can hand lap the male to the female for aperfectfit. Dave L.Dave, how do you electro plate the male ferrule? Nodes. from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Mon Apr 20 21:15:26 1998 bymssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id UAA08970 for Subject: Re: 0Weithts, Silk CA Lucker wrote: In a message dated 98-04-20 17:13:19 EDT, you write: I don't like crowded waters any more than the rest of you. However, youmustremember that as long as our streams are public with few restrictions,anyone,and any LL Bean, and any Fly Fisherman Magazine has the right toencourage thecrowds to enjoy the public resource. If you want uncrowded waters, private ownership is the key. I know thisphilosophy is not popular in a world where too many people confuserights withprivileges. What irritates me is when the public thinks it has the right to access toprivate property. Now look what happens when somebody breaks the rules and strays fromrodbuildingtopics. We're going to have a war on our hands in short order. Do NOT gothere! Long live the Montana stream access law. Matt CliffordMissoula from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Apr 20 21:33:46 1998 Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? In a message dated 98-04-20 19:46:45 EDT, you write: Don - The jasper thread is on the way??? Now there IS some news. Betyou arekidding, tho.Regards,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon Apr 20 21:36:07 1998 Subject: Need E-Address Carsten Jorgensen - please contact me off list. Need your current e- add.Thanks,RTyee from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Apr 20 22:19:03 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 20Apr 1998 23:20:32 -0400 Subject: Re: Nodeless splice failures? I don't know the specifics of your test, however, I know if the ends of the splice are not glued ie: the two strips are of different width and you try this test...a shearing with start where the glue line runs off the edge. Once it starts hold on! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Mon Apr 20 22:19:04 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Mon, 20Apr 1998 23:20:32 -0400 Subject: Re: 0Weights, Silk and a few other things. Don't EVEN get me started on lifetime warranty fish poles and why a rod that should cost $200 is priced at $600. Do yousuppose that the full color ad spreads in your favorite mag of BS isfree do you? The rags exist only to sell, the same recycled articles are Woh! If it were not for these magazines and the spectacular advertising found within, I would have never found fly-fishing or bamboo much less rodmaking. Perhaps I am unfortunate...no family member fished and these magazines/army of Orvis advertisments led me to where I am today. It is very easy to slam these establishments, but without them the industry would be dead! Sure fishing may be passed down generationally, however, I do not think this transition would be enough to fill anyones pocket. If the business was there, it would be on graphite rods from Orvis or some other private brand, w/ national brand recognition. Sure your favorite fishing spots may be less crowded, but contributions to TU and FFF would be sadly lacking. Has anyone taken a look recently at how much Orvis has donated to TU or any other restoration cause? I thin k we would all be astonished. Somehow I have a hard time thinking a donation from every bamboo rodmaker commercial/otherwise could even approach this mark. Sure I am bothered when I see an article for "bobbers" in American Angler, but I make a choice to put it down. Consumers have a tremendous amount of power when it comes to driving the marketplace. from a business standpoint, the G.Loomis and Sage print advertisments are superior to most of what we see in the popular media. I hate to admit it, but these giants are giving the consumer what they want. You can but a $200 fly-fishing rod, even a $35 one at Woolworths However, this isn't what the consumer wants. Orvis's primary market wants a new model every year! (sadly) They ant to be sold and want to feel like if they buy a rod the fish will come. Sex sells....in fishing...the sex are fish! Just for the record...I rarely buy from these giants that benefit from huge economies of scale. I would think for all the manufacturing benefits Orvis has they could offer a snipper under $12 :) I don't want to offend anyone, just thought I would interject some business application (or try to). Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Mon Apr 20 22:22:27 1998 bymssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA11389 for Subject: Re: Pleased as punch I've had two offers so far. I'll let you know if they don't pan out.Incidentally, i hope I didn't give anybody the impression that I don'tthink this is a great book. It truly is. It's just that at thisparticular moment in my life, (and especially in light of all the greatinfo available on this list), sixty bucks are looking just a tad bitgreater. Maybe you've been there. Thanks for your interest! --Matt Clifford Golden Witch wrote: Hi Matt, Have you sold it yet? If not, please drop me a line.I'd be happy to pay cash or to give you a very worthy trade, say a fewagate guides in nickel silver frames. Either way, I'd love to have acopy of the book for my library. Thanks much, Russ GoodingGolden WitchRods from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Mon Apr 20 22:38:01 1998 bymssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id VAA11949 for Subject: Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo Flyrod Dick: Tried to get you off list, but had problems (apparently you have"permanent fatal errors" -- yikes!). My apologies to everyone who hasto delete this message. Somebody else has offered me $60, but your message came in about ahalf hour earlier, so you can have first crack if you want it. I'm nobook expert, but the copyright page simply says says "Copyright 1977 byGeorge W. Barnes," and "published by Winchester Press," so I'm assumingit's a first edition (Were there any other editions? Does it matter?)The book is hardbound, mostly blue, and has a picture of George planingon the cover, (a la Garrison on the cover of the Carmichael book). Onesmall tear near the top left corner of the dust jacket. If you're interested and $60 sounds right, let me know and I'll drop it in the mail. --Matt from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 20 22:53:01 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A86E5920146; Mon, 20 Apr 1998 21:54:22 MDT Subject: Re: Pleased as punch At 09:22 PM 4/20/98 -0600, you wrote:I've had two offers so far. I'll let you know if they don't pan out.Incidentally, i hope I didn't give anybody the impression that I don'tthink this is a great book. It truly is. It's just that at thisparticular moment in my life, (and especially in light of all the greatinfo available on this list), sixty bucks are looking just a tad bitgreater. Maybe you've been there. Thanks for your interest! --Matt Clifford Golden Witch wrote: Hi Matt, Have you sold it yet? If not, please drop me a line.I'd be happy to pay cash or to give you a very worthy trade, say a fewagate guides in nickel silver frames. Either way, I'd love to have acopy of the book for my library. Thanks much, Russ GoodingGolden WitchRods Matt;Been there, still there, likely to be there for a long time to come.ThankGod for side jobs and the (very) occasional rod sale.John(married, withchild)Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 20 22:59:54 1998 Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? RO>In a message dated 98-04-20 19:46:45 EDT, you write: RO> got my last about the jasper thread being on the way. (Sent fromRO> Canerods@aol.com?)RO> >>RO>Don - The jasper thread is on the way??? Now there IS some news. Bet you aRO>kidding, tho.RO>Regards,RO>RTyree RT - Sure, as soon as you built that rod for me. Don PS - Thread was part of a swap with A.J. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon Apr 20 23:11:37 1998 Subject: Re: 0Weights, Silk AMEN BROTHER!! Robster from ghinde@inconnect.com Mon Apr 20 23:24:34 1998 0000 (209.140.67.208) Subject: Re: 0Weights, Silk A.J Not bad , but you really should try putting a little feeling into yourwriting! Thanks, I thought I was the only one who goes ballistic overlifetime warranties. George Greys River Rod Co.ghinde@inconnect.com ----------From: A.J.Thramer Subject: 0Weights, SilkDate: Monday, April 20, 1998 2:05 PM The 0 wgt rods are NOT 0 wt!. Where did these plasic rod guys get theAFTMA size balls to rate there rods the way that they do is completelybeyond me. The rod is supposed to be rated with 30 ft of line. The rodsare underrated at least 2 weights and often 4 sizes. The blend of poorcasting technique and tournament tapered rods has led to a laughable. Ihave always maintained that a 3wt bamboo is as light a rod as ispractical consistent with not killing fish from exhaustion. Fortunatelythe bamboo community is the last bastion of truth in line weight rating,and a few other things. Don't EVEN get me started on lifetime warrantyfish poles and why a rod that should cost $200 is priced at $600. Do yousuppose that the full color ad spreads in your favorite mag of BS isfree do you? The rags exist only to sell, the same recycled articles areused only as filler between the ads. The fewer pages of drivel you willaccept to seperate the glossy product shots the more profit for thepublisher. Bamboo offers REAL value not just hyped latest and greatest.The used value indicated this with some authority.Well the pipe is going like a smokestack at GM and is as overheated asthe owner now!End of current rant,A.J.Thramer from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Apr 21 06:33:05 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA02041 Subject: Paul Young "Driggs" variant I just finished reading about this taper in a 7'3" rod. I was intrigued available. Thanks in advance. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Apr 21 07:35:56 1998 Subject: Re: ferrules Thanks a bunch! I really, really appreciate the response!Jerry SniderAt 03:55 PM 4/20/98 EDT, you wrote: I would remove it (using gentle heat) and reglue.Acetone softens hardened epoxy after a while.Use a little jar and soak the ferrule for a coupledays (after it is off), then use a toothpick to clean out the softened epoxy. I used to put jade knife handles on Buck folding knives. To get the wood handles off I soaked the knives in acetone. They were glued on with epoxy. After a couple days under acetone they just floated off. Darryl from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Apr 21 07:48:14 1998 Don Burns PS - This is national turn off your TV week. What is a "TV?"Jerry Snider from sniderja@email.uc.edu Tue Apr 21 07:50:06 1998 Jerry;I had the same thing happen to me . I heated the ferrule and removed it,the soaked it in acetone overnite to get rid of the glue. When I reglued it, I made sure I scratched a groove in the cane for the excess glue and airto escape.John Channer Thanks a bunch, John!Jerry Snider from dickfuhrman@rheemote.com Tue Apr 21 08:34:50 1998 (may beforged)) Subject: Re: Barnes' Building Bamboo Flyrod Matt, Yes. I think I've convinced my wife that this is a collectors item andmaybe the kids will chip in with her to make this my fathers daypresent. ( That's the way I got my Garrison book last Father's Day.She's already indicated what she wants for Mother's Day. ) E-Mail your address and I'll get a check or Money Order in the snailmail to you. Here are several E-mail addresses for me. Home dickay@alltel.netWork dickfuhrman@rheemote.com orWork rdref@mail.rheemote.com My ISP for home has had some problems the last several months and onlysome of my E-Mail gets through. They say that they will have it curedthis week. ( That's what they said last month.) I know that only someof it gets through because I have subscribed to Rodmakers at both homeand work and I get postings at work that never get to my home address. The network Gurus at work keep changing up things here so that mailservice has been intermittent at best. Some days nothing and the nextday it works then it doesn't. Real frustrating. Home address is Dick Fuhrman6212 BostonFort Smith, AR 72903 Sorry for the band width just my time to vent. Dick from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Apr 21 09:10:33 1998 Subject: Spin Tapers Russ, Simon, Davy, Mac and Steve:Here is another taper for a bamboo spin rod. This 6' rod is light action, upto 1/4-oz. Bends well into the butt. Originally built as 1-pc, thenferruledwith no apparent change of response. 1.25 - 083 ; 5 - 085 ; 10 - 100 ; 15 - 123 ; 20 - 138 ; 25 - 155 ; 30 - 165 ; 34.5 - 175 ; 38.25 - 190 ; 40 - 196 ; 44.75 - 207 ; 50 - 220 ; 55 - 235 ; 60 - 245 ; 62.5 - 250 ; 65 > 72 - 255 Note: Reduce by 003/004 due to measured with varnish; unable to locateoriginal taper. More to follow,RTyree from Fallcreek9@aol.com Tue Apr 21 09:14:40 1998 Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? In a message dated 98-04-21 00:06:46 EDT, you write: Don PS - Thread was part of a swap with A.J. Don, thanks for the info.AJ - didn't mean to intrude. I thought Don was referring to an ongoing,veryfrusterating problem we both have with a supplier.Regards,Richard from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 21 09:21:09 1998 Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:19:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant On Tue, 21 Apr 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: I just finished reading about this taper in a 7'3" rod. I was intrigued available. Thanks in advance. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO This is a great taper if you like paras and if I was at home I'd forward it to you. I'm right now on a boat chasing fish that you don't catch on fly rods, and making the most of the last of the good weather so I wont go into it *but* I posted this taper which was an old posting of WC's only a couple of months back so if you look through the archives you'll find it.I expect to be home in a day or two so if you can't find it let me know. BE AWARE the taper is on 6" centres. Jerry, what say you put this little number in the hall of tapers fame? It's been asked for a few times now. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Apr 21 09:29:48 1998 Subject: Re: Spin Tapers Dear Richard Thanks much; I think I can use this one. Can you tell us who built theoriginal? Davy from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Apr 21 09:50:23 1998 0400 Subject: Re: 0Weights, Silk Look at the bright side....eventually plastic will be even more expensive and then consumers might even consider a bamboo rod. At600 the small makers...and what's wrong with a lifetime warranty regardless of how the rod is damaged? Andy p.s. I just had to hear more from A.J.! p.s.s. I have a new Parker bamboo rod and it is worth every penny!!! ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: 0Weights, Silk Author: at Tcpgate The 0 wgt rods are NOT 0 wt!. Where did these plasic rod guys get theAFTMA size balls to rate there rods the way that they do is completelybeyond me. The rod is supposed to be rated with 30 ft of line. The rodsare underrated at least 2 weights and often 4 sizes. The blend of poorcasting technique and tournament tapered rods has led to a laughable. Ihave always maintained that a 3wt bamboo is as light a rod as ispractical consistent with not killing fish from exhaustion. Fortunatelythe bamboo community is the last bastion of truth in line weight rating,and a few other things. Don't EVEN get me started on lifetime warrantyfish poles and why a rod that should cost $200 is priced at $600. Do yousuppose that the full color ad spreads in your favorite mag of BS isfree do you? The rags exist only to sell, the same recycled articles areused only as filler between the ads. The fewer pages of drivel you willaccept to seperate the glossy product shots the more profit for thepublisher. Bamboo offers REAL value not just hyped latest and greatest.The used value indicated this with some authority.Well the pipe is going like a smokestack at GM and is as overheated asthe owner now!End of current rant,A.J.Thramer from Marty.Ball@noaa.gov Tue Apr 21 10:08:29 1998 RFC822Gateway); Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:08:22 -0400Content-Identifier: 00594353CB662013Content-Return: Allowed Subject: Making Reels Although it falls somewhat outside the precise topic of the list I think that the making of one's own reel falls within the spirit of the list so I'd like to suggest it a a topic of discussion.In my admittedly naive view it seems that we go ballistic over the price of a Sage or Orvis rod but happily pay mega dollars for a Vom Hoffe, Ross or whatever reel. In the spirit of constructing your own tackle from fly to butt cap who has some ideas about building your own reel.I would think that something small that could be constructed on a miniature lathe like a Sherline or a Taig would be the place to start. Aluminum 6061-T6 Seems to be the material that most of the commercial reels are made of.What do the rest of y'all think? Marty Ball( Who is far away from building his own reel but likes to dream.) from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 21 10:34:30 1998 Subject: Re: Delicate Presentations (Was: First stab at Hexrod) Darryl,How does that 2 wgt do when there's a headwind?Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 21 10:34:37 1998 Subject: Re: Re: How Do I Feel? Hey, Gang,That bit about strike bobbers struck a chord but I do use weightednymphson occasion-my wife's good at short leader and line nymphing but it's a bitlike worming. Of course I turn off the electricity whenever I build rodsandlight my whale oil lamp after dark so I can sharpen my pen knife to cut andbevel the strips. Qh, and my cane comes via clipper ship and pony express(we're pretty remote here in The Plains. Va.) :- )Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 21 10:38:45 1998 Subject: Re: Making Reels How about wood?Hank. (G) from gwr@seanet.com Tue Apr 21 10:51:16 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA10749 for; Subject: Re: Making Reels Hank, A week or so ago on the ebay fishing auction there was a very pretty flyreel crafted primarily of mahogany with nickel silver bands & foot and abone handle. Might not have been the most practical reel, but it sure didlook good. Russ -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Making Reels How about wood?Hank. (G) from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 21 11:25:11 1998 Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? ,TOUCHE At 11:33 AM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote:Hey, Gang,That bit about strike bobbers struck a chord but I do use weightednymphson occasion-my wife's good at short leader and line nymphing but it's abitlike worming. Of course I turn off the electricity whenever I build rodsandlight my whale oil lamp after dark so I can sharpen my pen knife to cutandbevel the strips. Qh, and my cane comes via clipper ship and pony express(we're pretty remote here in The Plains. Va.) :- )Regards,Hank. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 21 11:35:08 1998 Subject: Re:RE: How Do I Feel? RO>In a message dated 98-04-21 00:06:46 EDT, you write: RO> RT - Sure, as soon as you built that rod for me. RO>RO> DonRO>RO> PS - Thread was part of a swap with A.J.RO> >>RO>Don, thanks for the info.RO>AJ - didn't mean to intrude. I thought Don was referring to an ongoing,verRO>frusterating problem we both have with a supplier.RO>Regards,RO>Richard Richard, Indirectly I guess I am. Sad too, because I might be willing to pay thehigher price if I know up front that's the going rate for 50 yds. BUT Idoubt if I would have purchased the larger dia. thread at any price. Maybe Grahame is related to Richard Nixon? Because there's a quote of Nixon's that Grahame should start using,IMHO. Don from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us Tue Apr 21 11:43:38 1998 (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) (envelope- from jmulvey@mis1.ci.newton.ma.us) 1.21);21 Apr 98 12:47:29 EST EST Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? What do you use for a power supply on your computer for e-mail? Mice or hamsters in a wheel? Joe Mulvey like worming. Of course I turn off the electricity whenever I build rodsandlight my whale oil lamp after dark so I can sharpen my pen knife to cutandbevel the strips. Qh, and my cane comes via clipper ship and ponyexpress(we're pretty remote here in The Plains. Va.) :- )Regards,Hank. from eestlow@srminc.com Tue Apr 21 11:49:14 1998 1997)) id862565ED.005BB680 ; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 11:41:44 -0500 Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? C'mon Guys, can we get back to rodmaking?-Ed Estlow "Joe Mulvey" on 04/21/98 12:46:30 PM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? What do you use for a power supply on your computer for e-mail? Mice orhamsters in a wheel? Joe Mulvey like worming. Of course I turn off the electricity whenever I build rodsandlight my whale oil lamp after dark so I can sharpen my pen knife to cutandbevel the strips. Qh, and my cane comes via clipper ship and ponyexpress(we're pretty remote here in The Plains. Va.) :- )Regards,Hank. from thramer@presys.com Tue Apr 21 11:56:05 1998 0000 Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? Fallcreek9 wrote: In a message dated 98-04-21 00:06:46 EDT, you write: RT - Sure, as soon as you built that rod for me. Don PS - Thread was part of a swap with A.J. Don, thanks for the info.AJ - didn't mean to intrude. I thought Don was referring to an ongoing,veryfrusterating problem we both have with a supplier.Regards,RichardWe know, it's OK. The problem is well known thanks to Don and hisunfortunate experience.A.J. from CALucker@aol.com Tue Apr 21 12:42:22 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller In a message dated 98-04-20 20:56:31 EDT, you write: I have sold rough mills for as little as $72 including motor, pair of 2.75inch cutters and micrometer adjuster. This price even included shippingand$4 profit for me. If you look around, you can find the parts to make a finish mill for lessmoney than some of you pay for simple planing forms, certainly lessmoney thanyou pay for a good used South Bend or Logan lathe. And, I am not kidding,youcan build a rough mill for less than a gallon of decent varnish.Chris Lucker from CALucker@aol.com Tue Apr 21 12:52:40 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller When I find a used piece of machinery that may be adapted to makesomethingrelated to bamboo rod construction, I buy it and make the new machine. This past year I moved and am still in the process of completing myworkshop.I have not been able to build any new machines because I cannot even getto mylathe, much less a level place to work. But, I can assure you I will bemaking more machines by summer. Regarding prices, the mills vary in price on whether they are rough millsbased upon some simple shaft and bearing thing I find, or a $350horizontalmetal mill I adapt to be a finish bamboo mill. But don't rely on me to makea mill for you. I am no smarter than a trainedchimp. I can barely work a lathe, but I can stare at photos of bamboomills,apply some logic, and figure out how to make one. The most importantthing toremember is DON'T REINVENT THE WHEEL. Go to a used machine tooljunkyard andsee what you can buy for a few bucks that you may adapt to bamboo work. Chris Lucker from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Apr 21 13:09:15 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA30198 +0200 Subject: Sv: Making Reels NAA29579 Although it falls somewhat outside the precise topic of the list I think that the making of one's own reel falls within the spirit of the list so I'd like to suggest it a a topic of discussion.Marty Ball Marty and others There is no reason why reels should not be made out of wood. Enclosed is apicture of two reels I made out of wood. Both are being fished regularly,without any trouble. The smaller one is a #3 reel with a "How to stop atraindisc brake" (Nice to know if one should ever catch a train) the other a #4-5with an ordinary clickety-click brake. And no, bearings aren't made out ofwood.I must admit tho, that I am in the process of making a reel out ofaluminium.All credits due to the Myford Lathe Co. in merry old England regards Carsten from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 21 13:14:35 1998 Subject: Re: Delicate Presentations (Was: First stab at Hexrod) In a message dated 4/21/98 8:35:57 AM Pacific Daylight Time,FISHWOOL@aol.comwrites: Darryl,How does that 2 wgt do when there's a headwind?Hank. I know what you mean....Seriously, this rod was made for local conditions around herein Southern Calif. Most of the streams are very small - 10 ft.across, and down in canyons covered with a canopy of trees orbrush. Wind usually isn't a problem. If it is you just walk around the next bend and the wind is blowing in a different directionrelative to the stream. I won't use this rod in the Sierra Mtns.where the creeks are bigger and more exposed. Although insome of the upper elevation streams it will be useful again. That's what's nice about making them yourself. You can tailorthe rod to the conditions you usually face, and make differentrods for different conditions. Darryl from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Apr 21 13:28:29 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA28586 +0200 Subject: Sv: Bellinger Beveller NAA31258 Chris wrote (snipped) When I find a used piece of machinery that may be adapted to makesomethingrelated to bamboo rod construction, I buy it and make the new machine. But don't rely on me to make a mill for you. I am no smarter than atrainedchimp. I can barely work a lathe, but I can stare at photos of bamboomills,apply some logic, and figure out how to make one. The most importantthing toremember is DON'T REINVENT THE WHEEL. Go to a used machine tooljunkyard andsee what you can buy for a few bucks that you may adapt to bamboo work. Chris Lucker Chris There I was, preparing an offer, You could not refuse (78 dollars for amill,shipping included).Well, seems like I have to make it myself. Have just one problem (for astart) Ireally don.t knowhow a mill works, nor have I ever seen a picture of such device. Any chance, You could remedy this? Picture or drawing? Surely there mustbeother listmembers in the same situation as I. Perhaps this could be a "Please publish it, Jerry" project? regards Carsten from anglport@con2.com Tue Apr 21 14:02:51 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09657 for Subject: Re: How Do I Feel? Hank,Ya know... I won't even CAST A NET for fish unless Jesus of Nazareth isstanding next to me and we're on the Sea of Galilee. I don't believe in rodsunless they were developed before that Macedonian who used the(putative)first fly --- a hank of wool tied to a hook! I don't even want to KNOW aboutthat new UPSTART bamboo stuff!!!!!I couldn't resist building on your effort, forgive me. Anybody else??Art At 11:33 AM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote:Hey, Gang,That bit about strike bobbers struck a chord but I do use weightednymphson occasion-my wife's good at short leader and line nymphing but it's abitlike worming. Of course I turn off the electricity whenever I build rodsandlight my whale oil lamp after dark so I can sharpen my pen knife to cutandbevel the strips. Qh, and my cane comes via clipper ship and pony express(we're pretty remote here in The Plains. Va.) :- )Regards,Hank. from anglport@con2.com Tue Apr 21 14:07:11 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id PAA09997 for Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller Chris,Care to post any simple directions? I'd love to see someone else's ideas ofwhat is workable. AND I'd probably be willing to go the $72 !! Hell, I'deven supply my own motor! Art At 01:41 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-04-20 20:56:31 EDT, you write: dollars on mills and bevelers, you're making us working class folksjealous.John(broke asusual)Channer >> I have sold rough mills for as little as $72 including motor, pair of 2.75inch cutters and micrometer adjuster. This price even included shippingand$4 profit for me. If you look around, you can find the parts to make a finish mill for lessmoney than some of you pay for simple planing forms, certainly lessmoney thanyou pay for a good used South Bend or Logan lathe. And, I am not kidding,youcan build a rough mill for less than a gallon of decent varnish.Chris Lucker from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 21 14:33:52 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Making Reels OAA01392 Carsten,You forgot to send the pictures.Gary H. At 08:10 PM 4/21/98 +0200, you wrote: Although it falls somewhat outside the precise topic of the list I think that the making of one's own reel falls within the spirit of the list so I'd like to suggest it a a topic of discussion.Marty Ball Marty and others There is no reason why reels should not be made out of wood. Enclosed isapicture of two reels I made out of wood. Both are being fished regularly,without any trouble. The smaller one is a #3 reel with a "How to stop atrain disc brake" (Nice to know if one should ever catch a train) theother a # 4-5 with an ordinary clickety-click brake. And no, bearingsaren't made out of wood. I must admit tho, that I am in the process ofmaking a reel out of aluminium. All credits due to the Myford Lathe Co. inmerry old England regards Carsten