from destinycon@mindspring.com Tue Apr 21 14:37:41 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Bellinger Beveller At 08:28 PM 4/21/98 +0200, you wrote:snipAny chance, You could remedy this? Picture or drawing? Surelytheremust be other listmembers in the same situation as I. Carsten I for one would like to see this also.Gary H. from CALucker@aol.com Tue Apr 21 14:39:08 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller My favorite rough mill, and the safest I have made, was adapted from anoldcast iron six inch planer I bought for $30 at a place called Old Tools inSanta Monica. (That is a good place for LA people to check out) If youknowhow a planer works, the following alterations will make sense to you. Remove the square shaft that is designed to hold planer blades. Lathe-up anew shaft to hold one inch hole HSS cutters (about $50 a pair new, $10 apairused). Cut a keyway so the cutters stay still and add a couple of shaftcollars to keep the cutters in the same place on the shaft. Install the newshaft. Add a piece of 3/4 inch MDF board, or any wood on the cast iron planer bed.Lower the cutters into the board a ways so that the cutter tips cut a littleinto the board. Now you have a reference for lining up your hold downs andfence (Think of the Dickerson rough mill photo in the Dickerson book). Makeyour hold down anyway you want, but consider the following: a half inchrouter bearing spinning on a 1/4 inch steel shaft. The steel shaft is heldwithin center holes in a pair of bookended 3/4 inch brass rod piece. Thebrass rod pieces aare held to the base of the planer by bolts and springsthrough vertical holes through the brass rod pieces. Confusing enough?Fences are made with a simple piece of aluminum, or wood or whatever. Makefence adjustable and close to the cutters. Allow the cutters to shape thefence. The spring-loaded arm that forces the cane against the fence cvanbeany setup that works like a horizontal see-saw. Make sure youconventionalcut -- climb cutting will rip the bamboo out of your hands and stick thestrip in the wall across the room. Use about 1 hp and 5500 rpm for 2.75inchcutters. Finish mills aren't that much more difficult to make, they just weigh moreandtake up more room. Chris Lucker from OBorge@aiss.uic.edu Tue Apr 21 14:40:19 1998 Subject: RE: Bellinger Beveller Isn't there a drawing of the Millward mill in the Best of the PF? There is (small) a picture of Bellingers Beveller at: http://www.oregonlink.com/bellinger/cane_beveler.html Olaf BorgeSystems Programmer/System SoftwareUniversity of Illinois/AISS/CNO312/996-5212 -----Original Message-----From: Carsten Jorgensen [SMTP:cmj@post11.tele.dk]Sent: Tuesday, April 21, 1998 1:29 PM Subject: Sv: Bellinger Beveller Chris wrote (snipped) When I find a used piece of machinery that may be adapted to makesomethingrelated to bamboo rod construction, I buy it and make the new machine. But don't rely on me to make a mill for you. I am no smarter than atrainedchimp. I can barely work a lathe, but I can stare at photos of bamboomills,apply some logic, and figure out how to make one. The most importantthing toremember is DON'T REINVENT THE WHEEL. Go to a used machine tooljunkyardandsee what you can buy for a few bucks that you may adapt to bamboowork. Chris Lucker Chris There I was, preparing an offer, You could not refuse (78 dollars for amill, shipping included).Well, seems like I have to make it myself. Have just one problem (for astart) I really don.t knowhow a mill works, nor have I ever seen a picture of such device. Any chance, You could remedy this? Picture or drawing? Surely theremustbe other listmembers in the same situation as I. Perhaps this could be a "Please publish it, Jerry" project? regards Carsten from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Apr 21 15:02:13 1998 (205.236.248.154) Subject: Re: Loose ferrules I use a cotton bud or swab and wipe the ferrule generously with theoxidisingsolution.TerryLECLAIR123 wrote: Bob,The best way is to glue the ferrules onto the blanks.Then fit themale to female.Then, mask off the cane at the end were it meets theferrule.Alsomask off the male ferrule were it goes into the female.When you dip theferrulesinto the oxidizer,lower it in untill you have only the ferrule in thesolution.You can see thru the bottle.Don't worry about getting the oxidizer on the cane.Ifyou glued the ferrule on properly and masked the cane with maskingtape,youwon't have any problem with the solution damaging the cane.Afterdipping,rinse in water.I use two containers .Dip into the first one and then into thesecondone. Then wipe dry with a paper towel. Dave L. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Apr 21 16:13:01 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA28574 +0200 Subject: making reels QAA06456 This listserver robot or whatever keeps telling me: exceeding messagesize limit65 KB. And the pict is only 48,1 kb. I'll try again, but if I reduce the sizeofthe pict much more, You'll need a microscope to wiev it. Regards, Carsten from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Apr 21 16:13:08 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAB28574 +0200 Subject: making reels boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD6D7B.2215C920" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD6D7B.2215C920 Here we go again, picture of wooden reels. BTW, all exterior =metalfittings are made out of brass. regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD6D7B.2215C920 name="tworeels.jpg" filename="tworeels.jpg" 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 ------=_NextPart_000_0030_01BD6D7B.2215C920-- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Tue Apr 21 16:29:28 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA9002 +0200 Subject: Sv: Bellinger Beveller QAA03047 Isn't there a drawing of the Millward mill in the Best of the PF? There is (small) a picture of Bellingers Beveller at: http://www.oregonlink.com/bellinger/cane_beveler.html Olaf Borge Olaf Thanks for the URL I'll check my copy of the Best of the PF, as soon as I have it back from afriend of mine. Anthony, if You are reading this: I WANT MY BOOK BACK,PRONTO.No more screaming. regards, Carsten from bjcoch@arkansas.net Tue Apr 21 16:31:17 1998 mail.anc.net (8.8.8/SCO5) with ESMTP id QAA05180 for Subject: Re: hollow-built rods mark m. freed wrote: A (perhaps) elementary question: How does one prevent the fluting of a hollow-built rod from fillingup with glue? (Which, I would submit, adds mass and therefore inertiawithout significantly increasing he modulus of elasticity necessary toovercome the additional mass.)Yes that would add mass, and it would not be balanced mass at that.Theway I keep it out is to use only enough to form the bond and I add anadhesive channel to the strips. The channel gives the adhesive somewhere togo other that the hollowed area. Bryant C. from jdunnigan@wyle.com Tue Apr 21 16:51:06 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA367C 0700 0700 Subject: Garrison style rod binding machine =_NextPart_000_01BD6D33.E4636200" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6D33.E4636200 AllGarrison style rod binding machineAre they available, and if so where? Seems like a slick tool. jd ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6D33.E4636200 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6D33.E4636200-- from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Tue Apr 21 17:18:48 1998 with SMTP id AAA16885 for ;Tue, 21 Apr 1998 22:18:14 +0000 message Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine RAA12082 JD, Lon Blauvelt sells them. I think they go for about $250.00, but don't quotemeon that...His number is (207) 781-5235. He doesn't have a website or e-mail, soyou'llhave to do it the old fashioned way. Give him a call. Good luck... Dennis Haftel ----------AllGarrison style rod binding machineAre they available, and if so where? Seems like a slick tool. jd from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 21 17:39:34 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A06F96300FE; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 16:40:47 MDT Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller At 01:41 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-04-20 20:56:31 EDT, you write: dollars on mills and bevelers, you're making us working class folksjealous.John(broke asusual)Channer >> I have sold rough mills for as little as $72 including motor, pair of 2.75inch cutters and micrometer adjuster. This price even included shippingand$4 profit for me. If you look around, you can find the parts to make a finish mill for lessmoney than some of you pay for simple planing forms, certainly lessmoneythanyou pay for a good used South Bend or Logan lathe. And, I am not kidding,youcan build a rough mill for less than a gallon of decent varnish.Chris Lucker Chris;I hope that didn't sound like whining, it really was a lame attempt athumor. I was actually wondering if you had any good ideas involving theuseof routers to bevel with. I've been playing around with a horizontal routertable, but I have yet to figure out a way to keep it from taking the stripaway from me. Feeding climb cut keeps the bit from blowing the caneapart,but it grabs the strip out of my hands. Any ideas will be much appreciated.Thanks.John Channer from CALucker@aol.com Tue Apr 21 18:38:28 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller In a message dated 98-04-21 18:43:06 EDT, you write: JohnI gave up my tries at milling or beveling with a router. I wouldconventionalcut, and would sharpen the cane strip into a gradual point to keep thecutter from blowing the cane apart. I used a pair of three wing carbide cuttersmounted on a half inch shaft from Anama. They are neat cutters --married oneway they would cut sixty degree strips; married another way they wouldcutninety degree strips. The problems was, however, that the collet of therouter could not withstand the battle with the bamboo. Unless the cutswerevery light, the router bit would get forced off-center within thecollet, orthe collet would get forced out of round. Using a router to cut cane, Ispentmore time with a dial indicator checking to keep my spindle on center thanIdid cutting cane. Stick with 2.5 to 3 inch cutters and a one inch shaft. Chris Lucker from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 21 18:43:34 1998 Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine JD,There is a guy named William Olsen that is selling them his # is in thePlaning form.Bret from anglport@con2.com Tue Apr 21 19:12:13 1998 admin.con2.com (8.7.4/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA13330 for Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller John,Can you put enough pressure on the strip with a strong featherboard?Or will that push so hard that the strip will be fed INTO the bit andannihilated? I'm working this idea over in my head but have yet to putanything together.I was the guy looking for the "female" 60 deg router bit so I couldtake both cuts at once. I'm not greedy; I'd be happy to just get a levelshape on the strip and fully taper the thing from there. I think I've lookedin every corner for that lousy bit and they ain't none to be had!! I am nowtrying to get a rise out of the Rec.Woodworking newsgroup. I figure ifthere's one to be had, somone on THAT board should be able to point metoward it. If several of us put our minds and designs together we might come upwith something that worked well enough to make it worth getting a"mini-run" of custom made bits (I hear ONE has been estimated at around$200and I see you're about as careful with a buck as I am). If I'm going to payTHAT kind of moolah, I want to know the thng is DEFINITELY going to dothejob. That isn't much for a good tool but it's big bucks for a "maybe".Art At 08:11 AM 3/4/98, you wrote:At 01:41 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-04-20 20:56:31 EDT, you write: dollars on mills and bevelers, you're making us working class folksjealous.John(broke asusual)Channer >> I have sold rough mills for as little as $72 including motor, pair of 2.75inch cutters and micrometer adjuster. This price even includedshipping and$4 profit for me. If you look around, you can find the parts to make a finish mill for lessmoney than some of you pay for simple planing forms, certainly lessmoneythanyou pay for a good used South Bend or Logan lathe. And, I am not kidding,youcan build a rough mill for less than a gallon of decent varnish.Chris Lucker Chris;I hope that didn't sound like whining, it really was a lame attempt athumor. I was actually wondering if you had any good ideas involving theuseof routers to bevel with. I've been playing around with a horizontal routertable, but I have yet to figure out a way to keep it from taking the stripaway from me. Feeding climb cut keeps the bit from blowing the caneapart,but it grabs the strip out of my hands. Any ideas will be muchappreciated.Thanks.John Channer from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Apr 21 19:18:41 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net TAA26018 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller And, I am not kidding, youcan build a rough mill for less than a gallon of decent varnish.Chris Lucker Chris, Would you have any rough drawings you could post showing a simple mill? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from CALucker@aol.com Tue Apr 21 20:39:59 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller Amana sells a router bit that will cut sixty degree strips or ninety degreestrips. The router bit setup costs just over $100 (1993)The bit setup consists of a shaft, or whatever you call the arbor thing, andapair of three wing carbide cutters. One side of the cutters have 30 degreeangle, the other side of the cutters have a 45 degree angle. Match thecutters whichever way you want to make hexes or quads. But, I don't thinkrouters work well for cutting finish strips or even real rough strips. Igavemy Amana cutters away to a pro rod builder outside of San Francisco. Chris from dpeaston@wzrd.com Tue Apr 21 20:52:07 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA11971; Tue, 21 Apr 199821:49:54 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller At 01:51 PM 4/21/98 EDT, CA Lucker wrote:When I find a used piece of machinery that may be adapted to makesomethingrelated to bamboo rod construction, I buy it and make the new machine. This past year I moved and am still in the process of completing myworkshop.I have not been able to build any new machines because I cannot even getto mylathe, much less a level place to work. But, I can assure you I will bemaking more machines by summer. Regarding prices, the mills vary in price on whether they are rough millsbased upon some simple shaft and bearing thing I find, or a $350horizontalmetal mill I adapt to be a finish bamboo mill. But don't rely on me to make a mill for you. I am no smarter than atrainedchimp. I can barely work a lathe, but I can stare at photos of bamboomills,apply some logic, and figure out how to make one. The most importantthing toremember is DON'T REINVENT THE WHEEL. Go to a used machine tooljunkyard andsee what you can buy for a few bucks that you may adapt to bamboo work. Chris Lucker I would be interested if you could attach some pictures. I haven't got theslightest idea what a bamboo mill looks like. -Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 21 20:56:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE9C5AF00CE; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:57:48 MDT Subject: bevellers Art;A featherboard would work feeding the right way, then it wouldn't kickbackat you. I made some spring loaded roller hold-downs that hold the stripdown o.k., but they allow the router bit to pull the strip thru.Try lookingat milling cutters made for metal working, there might be one made thatyoucan use , or possibly have one made for less than $200. Good luckJohn Channer from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 21 20:57:07 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AEBB5B000CE; Tue, 21 Apr 1998 19:58:19 MDT Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller At 07:37 PM 4/21/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-04-21 18:43:06 EDT, you write: of routers to bevel with. I've been playing around with a horizontalroutertable, but I have yet to figure out a way to keep it from taking the stripaway from me. Feeding climb cut keeps the bit from blowing the caneapart,but it grabs the strip out of my hands. Any ideas will be muchappreciated.Thanks.John Channer JohnI gave up my tries at milling or beveling with a router. I wouldconventionalcut, and would sharpen the cane strip into a gradual point to keep thecutter from blowing the cane apart. I used a pair of three wing carbide cuttersmounted on a half inch shaft from Anama. They are neat cutters --marriedoneway they would cut sixty degree strips; married another way they wouldcutninety degree strips. The problems was, however, that the collet of therouter could not withstand the battle with the bamboo. Unless the cutswerevery light, the router bit would get forced off-center within the collet,orthe collet would get forced out of round. Using a router to cut cane, Ispentmore time with a dial indicator checking to keep my spindle on centerthan Idid cutting cane. Stick with 2.5 to 3 inch cutters and a one inch shaft. Chris Lucker Chris;I'm a carpenter and have about 4 or 5 routers laying around and I thought Imight be able to use one to cut down the hand planing some.What I wasworking on is using a form with a groove in it and a flush trimming bit tocut with. I will try your suggestion of pointing off the strip and feedingconventionally. Bob Milwards design says to feed climb cut. I would rathercut horizontally if possible. I may have to scrap the whole approach andtry something different, let me see, I have a hand held power plane,maybe............John Channer from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Apr 21 20:58:40 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 21Apr 1998 22:00:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Quick Survey if You Have Time? Thanks for the response. I appreciate it. I. What motivates consumers to purchase a bamboo fly fishing rod? ie: Function, Aesthetic,Social,and Situational I don't know, I have never bought a bamboo rod. I can only conjectureon why others would. The reason I wouldn't buy a cane rod is cost,but if a new graphite and a new cane rod cost the same I would buy bamboo. II. What are the attitudes or perceptions associated with individuals fly- fishing with bamboo? Depends on the age of the individual, and what they are fishingwith. An old gray haired man with a South Bend or Heddon wouldbe perceived as traditional. A young guy with an Orvis or Winstonwould be perceived as a yuppie. Someone like me, fishing a cane rod he made himself, probably perceived as an anomaly. But in every case someone fishing a bamboo rod is perceived as more committed to the sport, more likely to have been flyfishing longer, and more likely to stay in it. III. How are individuals purchasing bamboo fly fishing rods?ie: Shows, Retail Stores, Magazines I really haven't seen many cane rods purchased. I would guessat a retail store, so that someone could test cast it first beforehe bought it. The ones I've sold were to people I knew, and theysaw the rod and tested it first. IV. Who is competing for the bamboo rod demand? Large manufacturers, Orvis, Winston, T&T, etc. V. Where do you look to purchase when you are interested in buying an item related to fly-fishing, Do you prefer the large retailers such as Orvis or do you look to smaller morespecialized outfits. I am lucky in that I live very close to Bob Marriott's, so I can go lookat and compare flyfishing items. Most of the things I can't get thereare only available through smaller specialized outfits. Orvis doesn'tsell NS ferrules, guides, reel seats etc. anymore. VI. Advantages/Disadvantages of a bamboo rod from Orvis (or anyone similar) versus an independent maker such as yourself? The tapers I use are better than Orvis bamboo rod tapers. Orvis willlikely be in business longer than me, and probably be around tofix rods handed down to grandkids. My rods cost a lot less. VII. Describe a typical first time bamboo rod purchaserie: Income Level, Social Class, Occupation, Age, Urban/Rural, Lifestyles, Brand Loyalty, Price Sensitivity. All the first time bamboo rod purchasers I've seen were the peoplewho bought them from me, and the only reason they bought themwas because they had used one of my rods, liked it and got it alot cheaper than from a retail store. The only thing similar betweenall of them were they were all middle class, and they all flyfished. Darryl Hayashida Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Apr 21 20:58:41 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 21Apr 1998 22:00:08 -0400 Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine I sell them...take a look at the web page below under tools. AllGarrison style rod binding machineAre they available, and if so where? Seems like a slick tool. jd Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from CampblRods@aol.com Tue Apr 21 21:09:05 1998 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller Chris, I would be interested in more info. on your finish mills. I plan topurchase the best beveler or mill available or I'd just keep hand planingfromstart to finish. If you are interested, please send me some info andreferences.Thank you,Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.19 Sargent Drive Brewer,Maine 04412CampblRods@aol.com from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 21 21:54:01 1998 Subject: Re: Re: How Do I Feel? I turn the power back on when I'm not rod building :-)Hank. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue Apr 21 22:26:52 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Tue, 21Apr 1998 23:28:29 -0400 Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine I am sorry about this. I meant to send it directly to him. I sell them...take a look at the web page below under tools.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277- 9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 22 00:15:53 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA21175 +0000 Subject: Re: Making Reels Back when I ordered my bamboo from Andy Royer, he mentioned that hesellsbamboo flooring. Hmmm,I wonder if you laminate that stuff if you could have a bamboo reel on yourbamboo rod? George Bourke ---------- Subject: Sv: Making Reels Although it falls somewhat outside the precise topic of the list I think that the making of one's own reel falls within the spirit ofthe list so I'd like to suggest it a a topic of discussion.Marty Ball Marty and others There is no reason why reels should not be made out of wood. Enclosed is apicture of two reels I made out of wood. Both are being fished regularly,without any trouble. The smaller one is a #3 reel with a "How to stop atrain disc brake" (Nice to know if one should ever catch a train) theother a # 4-5 with an ordinary clickety-click brake. And no, bearingsaren't made out of wood. I must admit tho, that I am in the process ofmaking a reel out of aluminium. All credits due to the Myford Lathe Co. inmerry old England regards Carsten---------- from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 22 00:20:28 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA23447 +0000 Subject: Re: Sv: Making Reels If wood is suitable (especially for the bamboo crowd), I wonder what thegraphite lovers might pay wood)? George Bourke ---------- Subject: Re: Sv: Making Reels Carsten,You forgot to send the pictures.Gary H. At 08:10 PM 4/21/98 +0200, you wrote: Although it falls somewhat outside the precise topic of the list I think that the making of one's own reel falls within the spirit ofthe list so I'd like to suggest it a a topic of discussion.Marty Ball Marty and others There is no reason why reels should not be made out of wood. Enclosed isapicture of two reels I made out of wood. Both are being fished regularly,without any trouble. The smaller one is a #3 reel with a "How to stop atrain disc brake" (Nice to know if one should ever catch a train) theother a # 4-5 with an ordinary clickety-click brake. And no, bearingsaren't made out of wood. I must admit tho, that I am in the process ofmaking a reel out of aluminium. All credits due to the Myford Lathe Co. inmerry old England regards Carsten ---------- from cmj@post11.tele.dk Wed Apr 22 06:11:09 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA13752 +0200 Subject: Sv: Making Reels boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD6DF0.39D9DE00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD6DF0.39D9DE00 I=B4ll try again sending the picture. If this fail, I=B4ll give up regards Carsten ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD6DF0.39D9DE00 name="tworeels.jpg" filename="tworeels.jpg" 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 ------=_NextPart_000_000A_01BD6DF0.39D9DE00-- from Fallcreek9@aol.com Wed Apr 22 07:58:14 1998 Subject: Re: Spin Tapers In a message dated 98-04-21 10:32:26 EDT, you write: Davy: I did. It was an attempt to build a really light casting rod for 1/4oz or less lures, but was a flop - too light. It was "developed" using theGarrison method, but my dreamed-up stess curve was in error for theintendeduse. So, did the next best thing and converted it to a spin rod for thefamily rack. Turned out to be a good one. Hope you like it.Regards,Richard from donkovach@email.msn.com Wed Apr 22 09:03:37 1998 SMTPSVC;Wed, 22 Apr 1998 07:03:03 -0700 Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller John,If you haven't already, you might want to talk to Al Medved about hisroutersetup. I know he uses it for rough planing exclusively. I don't know if hehas any problems with his setup, he has never mentioned anythingspecific. Don Kovach -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bellinger Beveller Chris;I hope that didn't sound like whining, it really was a lame attempt athumor. I was actually wondering if you had any good ideas involving theuseof routers to bevel with. I've been playing around with a horizontal routertable, but I have yet to figure out a way to keep it from taking the stripaway from me. Feeding climb cut keeps the bit from blowing the caneapart,but it grabs the strip out of my hands. Any ideas will be muchappreciated.Thanks.John Channer from bairdart@burgoyne.com Wed Apr 22 09:29:32 1998 0600 Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines Steven, While looking through the flyfishing.com clssifieds i came acrossaplaner being sold by Mark Hutton, huttomm@aol.com. He is asking 1500.00 It sounds more like what you are looking for istead of the Morgan mill infoi CampblRods wrote: I'm interested if anyone knows of a beveler or milling machine for sale. Myshop has been limited too hand planing for the last six years. I wouldappreciate any help on locating a machine for my business. Thanks,Steven N. CampbellCampbell Rod Co.Brewer,MaineCampblRods@aol.com from dragnfly@uniserve.com Wed Apr 22 11:24:28 1998 Subject: unsubscribe boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0036_01BD6DD0.6F936E00" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BD6DD0.6F936E00 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BD6DD0.6F936E00 ------=_NextPart_000_0036_01BD6DD0.6F936E00-- from jdunnigan@wyle.com Wed Apr 22 13:39:51 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA6D0E 0700 0700 Subject: Questions =_NextPart_000_01BD6DD7.B92F4140" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6DD7.B92F4140 All Two questions. I have asked the list a couple times if there are any =classes, or someone willing to give instruction in the SF bay area. The =reply seems to be no. So what books and videos should the do it your =selfer with no formal classes have? I have bought and read the Garrison = Now here is the next and I hope this isn't a can of worms, but here it =is. To node or not to node? And if it is not to node what =instructional material explains this techniques well? jack ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6DD7.B92F4140 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6DD7.B92F4140-- from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Apr 22 14:13:34 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Questions Jack,I can't respond to the nodeless debate, but here's my $.02 worth onyourfirst question. Garrison's book is very helpful in understandingrodbuilding.The only diffiiculty I have with it is that it makes rodbuilding sound somuchharder than it has to be. Buy a copy of WayneCattanach's book. You will learn a much more straightforward way ofbuildingrods. In fact, if you follow Wayne's instructions to the letter, you willcomeout with a very usable rod on your first try. I know I did, and I have nospecial mastery of woodworking or metalworking skills. And from what I have been told, Wayne's video is extremely helpful as well. Ihaven't seen it, but I think he covers the same basic material as is in thebookin a visual format.Wayne is a frequent contributor to this list and seems to delight inhelping newcomers to the craft. I hear through the grapevine that he willhavea new book out in the next few months, but be sure and get a copy of thecurrentbook. Even if you get the new book when it comes out,you'll eventually want both.Go to your local library and search for anything else you can find onrodbuilding. I've learned from Claude Kreider's book, Garrison's, McClane'sEncyclopedia, Vince Marinaro's (no, not Ed!) and others. Finally, take theplunge and get started. When you actually start building rods,you may find someone in the Bay are willing to offer more specific advice. Myperception is that some builders are a little reluctant to answer hoursworth ofquestions from those who only might actually build a rod.Hope this helps,Harry Boyd from MMills1189@aol.com Wed Apr 22 15:43:04 1998 Subject: Roughing forms Hi all,Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the taperless, 60deg secondaryroughingforms. What I'm looking for is the 60deg depth and an easy way to cut itintowood. I would imagine that the depth could vary depending on your desiredfinal rod dimensions. I realize that you would want it to be slightlyoversize, but how much is a happy medium? Thanks Mark Mills from jdunnigan@wyle.com Wed Apr 22 16:12:11 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA65A2 0700 0700 Subject: RE: Questions =_NextPart_000_01BD6DF4.631C78A0" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6DF4.631C78A0 Harry Where can a person get ahold of Wayne's book and video. What are the =titles? Thank you for the help very much -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Questions Jack,I can't respond to the nodeless debate, but here's my $.02 worth =on your first question. Garrison's book is very helpful in =understanding rodbuilding. The only diffiiculty I have with it is that =it makes rodbuilding sound so much harder than it has to be. Buy a copy =of WayneCattanach's book. You will learn a much more straightforward way of =building rods. In fact, if you follow Wayne's instructions to the =letter, you will come out with a very usable rod on your first try. I =know I did, and I have no special mastery of woodworking or metalworking=skills. And from what I have been told, Wayne's video is extremely helpful as well. =I haven't seen it, but I think he covers the same basic material as is =in the book in a visual format.Wayne is a frequent contributor to this list and seems to =delight in helping newcomers to the craft. I hear through the grapevine =that he will have a new book out in the next few months, but be sure and =get a copy of the current book. Even if you get the new book when it =comes out,you'll eventually want both.Go to your local library and search for anything else you can =find on rodbuilding. I've learned from Claude Kreider's book, =Garrison's, McClane's Encyclopedia, Vince Marinaro's (no, not Ed!) and =others. Finally, take the plunge and get started. When you actually =start building rods,you may find someone in the Bay are willing to offer more specific =advice. My perception is that some builders are a little reluctant to =answer hours worth of questions from those who only might actually build=a rod.Hope this helps,Harry Boyd ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6DF4.631C78A0 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD6DF4.631C78A0-- from MMills1189@aol.com Wed Apr 22 17:04:24 1998 Subject: Re: Questions I got mine from The Anglers Art from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 22 17:42:14 1998 Subject: RE: Questions At 01:41 PM 4/22/98 -0700, you wrote:Harry Where can a person get ahold of Wayne's book and video. What are thetitles? Thank you for the help very much Jack,I don,t want to step on Harry's toes but if you would go to JerryFoster's Rodmakers Page you will be amazed at the amount of info you willfind. I would give you the ULR but the last time I tried that I foundmyself in deep DoDo. I'm sure Jerry or someone else will chime in soon.Gary H. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Apr 22 17:42:38 1998 Subject: Re: Loose ferrules Electro plating is putting new metal over the base metal using a solutionof chemicals with metal anodes and an electric current.Such as goldplating,nickel plating,bronze plating,etc.If you don't have the equipment yourself,mosttowns have a plating company or possibly a local jewler that may be willing toplate them for you. Dave L. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Apr 22 18:20:09 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Questions 52E83F1C6438A65DD6862280" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- 52E83F1C6438A65DD6862280 Jack,Gary's right. There is a welath of information available on the web,andJerry's page is far and away the best place to start. I think I've attached alink, (I'm a minister, not a computer guru) but the sight is located at: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Being old fashioned and liking print materials, I still recommendWayne'sbooks and videos, available through Angler's Art, Cabelas, and other retailflyfishing outlets, as well as through the link to Wayne's Home page listedunderMakers on Jerry's Rodmakers Page. Give Wayne a call. You'll learn as muchin afew minutes of talking with Wayne as you will in an hour of reading myposts.There's lots of information out there but it does take some detectivework.Hope this helps.Harry Heidt wrote: At 01:41 PM 4/22/98 -0700, you wrote:Harry Where can a person get ahold of Wayne's book and video. What are thetitles? Thank you for the help very much Jack,I don,t want to step on Harry's toes but if you would go to JerryFoster's Rodmakers Page you will be amazed at the amount of info youwillfind. I would give you the ULR but the last time I tried that I foundmyself in deep DoDo. I'm sure Jerry or someone else will chime in soon.Gary H. --------------52E83F1C6438A65DD6862280 Content-Base: "http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.html" Error 404 HTTP Error 404 404 Not Found The Web server cannot find the file or script you asked for. Pleasecheck theURL to ensure that the path is correct. Please contact the server's administrator if this problem persists. --------------52E83F1C6438A65DD6862280-- from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Apr 22 18:21:30 1998 Subject: Re: Questions Cabela's carries both his book and video. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Heidt Subject: RE: QuestionsDate: Wednesday, April 22, 1998 3:44 PM At 01:41 PM 4/22/98 -0700, you wrote:Harry Where can a person get ahold of Wayne's book and video. What are thetitles? Thank you for the help very much Jack,I don,t want to step on Harry's toes but if you would go to JerryFoster's Rodmakers Page you will be amazed at the amount of info youwillfind. I would give you the ULR but the last time I tried that I foundmyself in deep DoDo. I'm sure Jerry or someone else will chime in soon.Gary H. from saltwein@swbell.net Wed Apr 22 18:48:27 1998 gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net SAA22926 Subject: Re: Questions Read all of the books and materials you can find, by all means. You canalso glean a wealth of material from the archive of the rodmakers list.It can seem a daunting task to wade through all of the material, but itis well worth it. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 22 19:24:50 1998 Subject: 9' Heddon 2-3/4F All, OBTW - A cane rod collector/friend and his wife were visiting and thismorning we were casting a few of my rods in the back yard. We got to the9' Heddon #14 2-3/4F, GBG rated, and he soon was casting it into theneighbor's yard (remember - small lots in CA) and he agreed that thisrod is a beaut' if someone was looking for a WF8 for lt.salmon/steelhead/LM bass. Just have big arms! Sorry I can't offer a taper, my own 2-3/4F rod is restored and I didn'tdo the restoration job - varnish is ???? thick. Don Burns PS - a Heddon 2-3/4F uses a 21/64th butt/mid ferrule and a 13/64thmid/tip ferrule. from CampblRods@aol.com Wed Apr 22 19:56:42 1998 Subject: Re: Bevelers or Milling machines Thanks Bob, I'll look into it.Steve Campbell from MMills1189@aol.com Wed Apr 22 20:11:43 1998 Subject: Fwd: Roughing forms boundary="part0_893293835_boundary" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_893293835_boundary --part0_893293835_boundary byair12.mail.aol.com (vx) with SMTP; Wed, 22 Apr 1998 16:50:45 -0400 with ESMTP id QAA20920; Subject: Roughing forms Hi all,Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the taperless, 60deg secondaryroughingforms. What I'm looking for is the 60deg depth and an easy way to cut itintowood. I would imagine that the depth could vary depending on your desiredfinal rod dimensions. I realize that you would want it to be slightlyoversize, but how much is a happy medium? Thanks Mark Mills --part0_893293835_boundary-- from Grhghlndr@aol.com Wed Apr 22 20:31:52 1998 Subject: Waynes book and video Waynes book and video is available at Anglers Art 800-848-0102 or is it1020.Try both. Bret from cmax@jymis.com Wed Apr 22 23:38:12 1998 0600 Subject: unsubscribe Thanks for all the great advice.Chris Maxfield from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 23 01:16:22 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ACF089600F0; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 00:17:20 MDT Subject: sale rods Hi guys;A fellow called me last nite saying he had some rods he needed to sell.Idon't really have any sort of market for them and this is a backwater area If any of you are interested, he has 3 nice rods to sell. The best one is aPhillipson Powr-Pakt, 8' HEH. Its in near mint condition, the grip is soclean it may not have ever been fished. It has both tips full length andthe original bag and tube, $450 or close. The next is a South Bend 346,9',2 tips, wraps are yeelow or gold tipped maroon.It doesn't have any writingon the shaft so I don't know what line weight it is for It is in very goodcondition, fished some, but well taken care of, $200. The last is what weboth take to be an English made rod, it has very strange dowelled ferruleswith an exterior screw lock contraption, 4" nickle slide band reel seat,9.75" cork grip.Wraps are orange with gold intermediates spaced at about1"at the grip and getting down to about .5 or less at the tips.Its in goodshape for its age, it appears to be Calcutta cane, all guides are snakesand it is fishable as is , the varnish is fine and shows no signs ofalligatoring or melt down. Its a good thing, I'ld hate to have to re-finishit. It comes with a fitted velvet covered form, bag and a nice linedleather tube. This rod is unmarked and neither he nor I can guess who madeit or what it might be worth, make an offer.Contact me off-list if you areinterested.John Channer from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 23 01:25:24 1998 Subject: Re: Roughing forms In a message dated 4/22/98 6:15:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,MMills1189@aol.com writes: Hi all,Can anyone tell me the dimensions of the taperless, 60deg secondaryroughingforms. What I'm looking for is the 60deg depth and an easy way to cut itintowood. I would imagine that the depth could vary depending on yourdesiredfinal rod dimensions. I realize that you would want it to be slightlyoversize, but how much is a happy medium? Thanks Mark Mills My roughing form is a birch 1 X 6 board 2 ft. long. On one side I havetwo 90 degree slots cut with a router. One 1/4 inch deep and one1/8 deep. One slot is 1 inch from one edge and the other is 1 inch from the other edge. On the other side I have the same arrangement with 60 degreeslots. I put the deeper 60 degree slot on the other side of theboard of the shallower 90 degree slot, just so that there is no chance of the wood being too thin between the slots. I use the 90 degree side just to take the square edge off of the strips (pith side).Flip the board over and establish a good equilateral triangular strip on the 60 degree side. The reason Ihave two slots, one deeper than the other is for butt stripsand tip strips. Lets see if I can do this in ascii art. If it looks strange to youit's probably the spacing coming out wrong on your textreader. End view of board____| || |Deeper 90 deg slot --> \ / \ / from tom@cet-inc.com Thu Apr 23 06:46:38 1998 0000 Subject: Wes Jordan Rods I stopped by Gloria Jordan's Fly Rod Shop last weekend while visitingVermont. When she found out I make cane rods, she was very interested inwhat folks like us are doing these days. I believe that when Wes was atOrvis, Gloria was in charge of rod finishing. She has fallen on some toughtimes recently. As a result of an operation on her foot, she has missedseveral weeks of work at her full time job and has been told by heremployerthat they will not be holding her job. She also operates a small shop in hergarage selling used bamboo rods, flies and accessories. She indicated thatdue to her current financial situation she is forced to sell some of Wes'spersonal rods. I promised her to put something on this list to see if anyonewas interested. A brief description of the three rods that she showed mefollows: 1) 8'6", "99", 2pc flyrod. 2) 8', 2pc flyrod, bag has a tag thatindicates length of rod and (12) for ferrule size, there are no markings onthe rod like the typical production rods from Orvis. 3) Rocky Mountain 3pc.6'6", 3-5/8 oz. spinning rod. The two flyrods are in excellent condition,the spinning rod appears unfished. If you are interested or would like moreinformation on the rods, or other items, please contact Gloria at:Gloria Jordan's Fly Rod ShopRoute 7A NorthP.O. Box 667Manchester Center, VT 05255 Phone: 802-362-3186 I hope that this use of the list in not taken by anyone to be inappropriate,Tom Whittle from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Thu Apr 23 08:40:25 1998 08:40:18-0500 08:40:18-0500 Subject: Band Agate Stripping Guides Hello,I am searching for Band Agate Stripping Guides, made by Heddon ifpossible. Anybody have a lead as to where I might be ableto locate this kind of guide? Homer from cmj@post11.tele.dk Thu Apr 23 09:02:16 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA46204 +0200 Subject: Sv: Making Reels JAA13658 Back when I ordered my bamboo from Andy Royer, he mentioned that hesellsbamboo flooring. Hmmm,I wonder if you laminate that stuff if you could have a bamboo reel onyourbamboo rod? George Bourke Now, that would be something special. My immediate reaction is that is itpossible. I think the problem, if any, might be the glue. On the other hand,laminated wood, IMO, is as strong, if not stronger, than "ordinary" wood.Any carpenters og skilled wood workers out there care to comment? regards Carsten from Ragnarig@aol.com Thu Apr 23 09:03:52 1998 Subject: Re: sale rods Dear John Can you give more specs on the English rod: how long, how many sections,etc.? Thanks,Davy from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 23 09:10:21 1998 Subject: RE:Band Agate Stripping Guides RO>Hello,RO>I am searching for Band Agate Stripping Guides, made by Heddon ifRO>possible. Anybody have a lead as to where I might be ableRO>to locate this kind of guide? Homer Homer, Heddon bought their guides. Is it real agate or agateen? (red glass)I've got a couple of the agateens - What ferrule size rod are youtrying to put the guide on? Contact me off-list if interested. I can't read email address from postsoriginating from a list-serv. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from donkovach@email.msn.com Thu Apr 23 09:18:47 1998 SMTPSVC;Thu, 23 Apr 1998 07:18:02 -0700 Subject: Re: Spain Fernando,I will let my brother-in-law know that he can look you up when he is inMadrid. He and I have checked out a couple of rivers in the Madrid area,but trout season had already ended. I believe the one river was in a townjust south of Madrid called Trabucar. I'm not sure if my spelling on thatis any good or not. Are you currently building bamboo rods? If so, do you sell them to thepublic? I am pretty sure my brother would be very interested in looking atsome rods. Right now he is using an old south bend that he refinished. Don Kovach P.S. Have you ever tried barbo on a fly? Lot's of fun! -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Spain Hello Don, Thanks for your kind words. I'm afraid I don't live near by Malaga,I live in Madrid and I'm not aware of the best south fishing spots. Thebest action though is around middle and north of Spain, where you canstill find very good native populations, sea trouts and even someatlantic salmons. Anyway you can tell your brother-in-law that I'malways ready to fly fishing if he comes around. Regards,Fernando Rada. from jcole10@juno.com Thu Apr 23 11:16:10 1998 12:14:44 EDT Subject: Bamboo Rod Tubes Just started making BAMBOO RODS and I need to know where I can find rodtubes that include tip tubes. E-Mail jcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 23 12:27:11 1998 Subject: Short One Piece Rods I am currently working on a 5ft. one piece 4 DT.I thought I would write in to comment on how amazedI am on how quickly the work is going. In two evenings I had all the strips planed to final dimemsions and readyto glue. No ferrule to worry about, so after a little scrapingand sanding, a finish goes on, and it's ready to wrap. This project has been the easiest one I've done so far.I've even already found the rod tube for it. It was meant I've looked at the stress curve to see the effect of addinga ferrule later, just in case I find that carrying a 5ft. rodis too inconvienient, and the effect will be minimal. I doubtI'll even be able to tell the difference. If I like the way it casts, I'll post the taper. Darryl from sniderja@email.uc.edu Thu Apr 23 13:36:02 1998 Subject: Re: Short One Piece Rods If it works I, for one, would love to have the taper. Recently build TomSmithwick's 5'6" 5 wt and several people have simply fallen in love withthe way the rod casts (in spite of my ineptness at rod building!). Alsowould be interested in anyone with tapers for short (6'6" and under) rodsthat cast 5 and 6 wt lines.Jerry Snider.At 01:25 PM 4/23/98 EDT, you wrote: I am currently working on a 5ft. one piece 4 DT.I thought I would write in to comment on how amazedI am on how quickly the work is going. In two evenings I had all the strips planed to final dimemsions and readyto glue. No ferrule to worry about, so after a little scrapingand sanding, a finish goes on, and it's ready to wrap. This project has been the easiest one I've done so far.I've even already found the rod tube for it. It was meant I've looked at the stress curve to see the effect of addinga ferrule later, just in case I find that carrying a 5ft. rodis too inconvienient, and the effect will be minimal. I doubtI'll even be able to tell the difference. If I like the way it casts, I'll post the taper. Darryl from flyfisher@brinet.com Thu Apr 23 17:01:45 1998 18:03:11 -0400 Subject: Re: Short One Piece Rods SalarFly wrote: I am currently working on a 5ft. one piece 4 DT. .... If I like the way it casts, I'll post the taper. Even if you don't like it, post the taper. Donald Yeltonflyfisher@brinet.com from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Apr 23 17:21:06 1998 Subject: Re: Short One Piece Rods I understand that one piece is a great casting rod. Robert Clarke ----------From: Jerry Snider Subject: Re: Short One Piece RodsDate: Thursday, April 23, 1998 11:35 AM If it works I, for one, would love to have the taper. Recently build TomSmithwick's 5'6" 5 wt and several people have simply fallen in love withthe way the rod casts (in spite of my ineptness at rod building!). Alsowould be interested in anyone with tapers for short (6'6" and under) rodsthat cast 5 and 6 wt lines.Jerry Snider.At 01:25 PM 4/23/98 EDT, you wrote: I am currently working on a 5ft. one piece 4 DT.I thought I would write in to comment on how amazedI am on how quickly the work is going. In two evenings I had all the strips planed to final dimemsions and readyto glue. No ferrule to worry about, so after a little scrapingand sanding, a finish goes on, and it's ready to wrap. This project has been the easiest one I've done so far.I've even already found the rod tube for it. It was meant I've looked at the stress curve to see the effect of addinga ferrule later, just in case I find that carrying a 5ft. rodis too inconvienient, and the effect will be minimal. I doubtI'll even be able to tell the difference. If I like the way it casts, I'll post the taper. Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 23 17:25:48 1998 Subject: Re: Short One Piece Rods In a message dated 4/23/98 3:02:19 PM Pacific Daylight Time,flyfisher@brinet.com writes: I am currently working on a 5ft. one piece 4 DT. I got a private email saying I said it was a 5wt before.A 4DT rod will cast a 5WF with no strain. A DT linestays fat all the way through to the reverse taperand adds a lot of weight as the cast gets longer.A WF gets into the running line after 35 ft. or so,and doesn't add as much weight as the cast gets longer. All rods made to cast a DT line will castat least one weight higher WF line. If I like the way it casts, I'll post the taper. Even if you don't like it, post the taper. No, if it casts badly I don't want to inflict it onanyone else. I think a lot of bad tapers are out there for reasons like this. Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 23 18:34:39 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A033F05013C; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:35:15 MDT Subject: Re: sale rods At 10:01 AM 4/23/98 EDT, you wrote:Dear John Can you give more specs on the English rod: how long, how many sections,etc.? Thanks,Davy Davy;Its a 9' rod, 3 pc.,2 tips,all sections full length and not too crookedconsidering how old it must be. I think it has 12 guides on it, all snakes.Like I said, it has very strange ferrule, there is a square thread on thefemale and the male has a hook on the outside that engages the thread andthen you twist to lock them together. There is also a dowel pin coming outthe bottom of the male.They also have a slight waist to them.there isn'tany markings of any kind on the rod or the form so I don't know what lineweight it is for, in those days I think the angler was supposed to decidethat for himself.Let me know if you want to make him an offer, I know hewants to sell these things.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 23 18:46:22 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A30683600EC; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:47:18 MDT Subject: Re: Sv: Making Reels At 07:49 PM 4/22/98 +0200, you wrote: Back when I ordered my bamboo from Andy Royer, he mentioned that hesellsbamboo flooring. Hmmm,I wonder if you laminate that stuff if you could have a bamboo reel onyourbamboo rod? George Bourke Now, that would be something special. My immediate reaction is that is itpossible. I think the problem, if any, might be the glue. On the otherhand, laminated wood, IMO, is as strong, if not stronger, than "ordinary"wood.Any carpenters og skilled wood workers out there care to comment? regards Carsten Carsten and George;I haven't seen Andy's flooring, but most of the laminated flooring I haveseen is like plywood,i.e. wood veneers glued together with the finish sidebeing the best veneer. Most of it has also been only 3/8ths thick, but Isuppose you could glue 2 pieces back to back and have finish on both faces.What I would wonder about is the type glue used to laminate the flooringand what would you do about covering the edges where the veneers show.Personally I think I would rather work with a dense, stable, tight grainedsolid wood. Teak and Mahogany come to mind first, but I am sure there aremany possibilities..02John Channer, carpenter from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 23 19:27:24 1998 Subject: BFR - Issue 2 All, My issue of "The Bamboo Fly Rod" arrived today - don't post any messages Don Burns from Bambull@webtv.net Thu Apr 23 19:38:47 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idRAA11740; 101.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA00614; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:38:45 -0700 from Bambull@webtv.net Thu Apr 23 19:41:51 1998 mailsorter-105.bryant.webtv.net (8.8.8/ms.gso.08Dec97) with ESMTP idRAA15965; 101.iap.bryant.webtv.net(8.8.8/mt.gso.26Feb98) id RAA01348; Thu, 23 Apr 1998 17:41:48 -0700 Hello from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Thu Apr 23 20:07:29 1998 for Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine message Dennis Haftel wrote: JD, Lon Blauvelt sells them. I think they go for about $250.00, but don'tquoteme on that...His number is (207) 781-5235. He doesn't have a website or e- mail, soyou'llhave to do it the old fashioned way. Give him a call. Good luck... Dennis Haftel ----------AllGarrison style rod binding machineAre they available, and if so where? Seems like a slick tool. jd I made mine. It took a few hours and cost about $20 for the parts. Itworks great.Traver Becker from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 23 20:14:07 1998 Subject: What's happened? I did a test post - proved that I'm no longer getting a bounce of my ownmessages - what's that command again? Thx Don Burns PS - For those in mount 52 - "Man your brooms" from jcole10@juno.com Thu Apr 23 20:44:46 1998 21:44:09 EDT Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine message Traver,I would like to have more details on how you made your binding machine.Also need information on suppliers for rod tubes.John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 23 20:49:44 1998 Subject: Wrong email - sorry Subj: What's happened? I did a test post - proved that I'm no longer getting a bounce of my ownmessages - what's that command again? Thx Don Burns PS - For those in mount 52 - "Man your brooms" Sorry was supposed to go to FF@ - I guess I got tso happy wiht themagazinearriving that I need some computer retraining! Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 23 20:52:21 1998 Subject: Re: Band Agate Stripping Guides Homer,I have some old Heddon butt sections I might be willing to partwith ifyou are interested contact me off list. They have the original agate guideson them.bret from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Thu Apr 23 21:38:50 1998 for Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine message JOHN E COLE wrote: Traver,I would like to have more details on how you made your binding machine.Also need information on suppliers for rod tubes.John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] John,Look at the Rod Builders page. There is an artical by Chris Bogart on"Unlocking The Mysteries of the Garrison Binder". Its very good and haslots of pictures. Also, Garrison's book and Wayne's book both have plans sewing machine shop(free from his junk parts box), and bought thepulleys,nuts, and bolts. I made mine out of aluminum with brasspulleys.If You have to buy all the material it might cost $30. It was excitingto watch it work when it was done. I'm building my first rod and havealmost no $$$. I've built my rough forms, steel forms, binder, and oven.I think it will give me great pride to build my first rod with equipmentthat I made.I also built my own node press vise. But, If I had the moneyto buy the stuff, I probably would have.Good luck,Traver Becker from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 23 21:39:22 1998 Subject: Re: Band Agate Stripping Guides RO>Homer,I have some old Heddon butt sections I might be willing to partwith iRO>you are interested contact me off list. They have the original agateguidesRO>on them.RO>bret Bret, If Homer isn't interested - I am. I need a few Heddon ferrules andreelseats. Any other Heddon rod sections? Sorry for replying on list - I can't read email addresses if the postcomes through a list serv. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com from jcole10@juno.com Thu Apr 23 22:20:07 1998 23:19:24 EDT Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine Traver,I have just started spliting bamboo for my first rod. Don't have alltools in place yet, but I just could'nt wait to get started. I just foundout about this E-Mail today. Don't know how to find Rod Builders page. Ihave made some of my tools and have bought some of them.John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from FLYROD777@aol.com Thu Apr 23 23:10:31 1998 Subject: Tungsten Guides Does anyone know where I can get some tungsten snake guides orsomething thatlooks like tungsten? Need a set for 9 ft rod built in the 40's. Mark Hallowell847-688-1330flyrod777@aol.com from Fishstink@aol.com Thu Apr 23 23:20:53 1998 Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides Contact Dave LeClair at LECLAIR123@aol.com. He has English Brass platedsnakeguides that look alot like tungsten to me.Mike from Ragnarig@aol.com Fri Apr 24 00:15:49 1998 Subject: Re: sale rods Dear John That rod sounds interesting. The only other rod I've seen with that sort offerrule is a Gale spey rod, also British, but a thirteen-footer and well ableto use such a coupling. I expect this rod is either another Gale or theseferrules were made by them or someone else who sold them to othermakers aswell. They match your description exactly and seemed heavy as what isthis. Do I grasp the obvious with both paws or what? If you can give me any idea of what he wants for this jewel,please shootme aline off-list, as I can only take a shot in the dark otherwise. Thanks,Davy from FLYROD777@aol.com Fri Apr 24 00:58:22 1998 Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides Thanks for the info Mark from FLYROD777@aol.com Fri Apr 24 01:03:09 1998 Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine When making the binder I added a new touch (we all have to play) I went tothesewing store and bought a sewing machine tensioning device ($11). I useditverus thee tension washers or button washers. The nice extra is it has anumbered dial on top so you can pre set the tension. Just my $.02. Mark from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Apr 24 06:55:03 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA29473 Subject: Cork Hey Everyone, I am still trying to figure out the differences in cork prices withouthaving to hock the crown jewels. I have prices for "flor" grade ranging from .53 to .89 per ring.One place sent me samples and it is superb material, but I am concernedthat an order might not render the same thing. Has anyone dealt withExpanko? I actually paid more for what was characterized as "extra finespecie" from Custom Tackle. It was very disappointing material. I have seen many different standards and means of grading cork in myshort search. I am drawing the conclusion that the best is known as"flor" grade. The reason I select "flor" is that it seems to be anindustry standard and gives me a starting place for my expectations. Ifanyone has a different, or more knowledgable understanding, pleaseenlighten me. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jcole10@juno.com Fri Apr 24 08:25:15 1998 09:23:09 EDT Subject: Re: Cork SteveI recently attended a seminar on rod building where cork was discussed."Flor" cork is supposed to be the best, but "the best"is the best of whatthat dealer has in stock. The large rod building companies are buying thevery best cork produced and the supply houses get what's left. By theway, "Custom Tackle" is a very reputable company and I feel sure if youcontact them , they will do their best to make you happy. No, I an notconnected with them, but I met Bob McKamey, owner, and his sidekickScottAbell, at this seminar and they are very nice people. John E. Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Apr 24 09:12:26 1998 Subject: Re: Perrfect!! Richard, I got the tan silk yesterday and it is exactly the color I was looking for! AThousand thanks! Now I just hafta get the time to put together a ron to useiton...I can't see any reason why nobody seems to carry this color of tan as itseemsso obviously "right" for bamboo. I've put some of my size A nylon for testcolors and I know how nice it looks. Well, I gotta go to my day gig, againthank you! Rob Hoffhines P.S. If you come to Grayrock '98 I owe you dinner or beer or something! from eestlow@srminc.com Fri Apr 24 09:18:30 1998 1997)) id862565F0.004DF3E9 ; Fri, 24 Apr 1998 09:11:27 -0500 Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine John, The Rodmakers page url is: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Happy hunting! -Ed Estlow from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Fri Apr 24 09:25:40 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id JAA26730 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id JAA15351 for ; Fri, 24 Apr1998 Subject: Re: Cork I just got some cork yesterday from Angler's Workshop. I don't know howit is listed in the catalog but just asked for "the second best grade"when ordering over the phone. (Somebody has to settle for second best,right?) I was pleasantly surprised by what I got. It was, I think, $0.99 per ring. You can temper this recommendation by the fact that I'm really not a cork connoisseur. Some builders have very high standards for theircork. ......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Fri, 24 Apr 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Hey Everyone, I am still trying to figure out the differences in cork prices withouthaving to hock the crown jewels. I have prices for "flor" grade ranging from .53 to .89 per ring.Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri Apr 24 09:32:57 1998 Subject: Re: Found: Garrison book I seem to remember a thread that "The BOOK" was out of print again. OrvisChicago has a copy...for $80! (312)440-0662 Rob Hoffhines from jcole10@juno.com Fri Apr 24 10:05:42 1998 11:04:54 EDT Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine Ed Thanks for reply. John E. ColeJcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Apr 24 10:14:10 1998 Subject: Re[2]: Found: Garrison book RO>I seem to remember a thread that "The BOOK" was out of print again.OrvisRO>Chicago has a copy...for $80! (312)440-0662 RO>Rob Hoffhines Rob, I remembered that thread too. So I recently posted that I saw a copy at my local FF shop and got toldthe book is back. I guess all the rodmakers guys bought them up so fastthat the publisher saw $$ signs. Don B.flyfisher@cmix.com from thramer@presys.com Fri Apr 24 14:29:41 1998 0000 Subject: Silk Thread Pearsalls Gossamer Silk is available in a wide range of colours and canbe ordered through Alec Jackson, their US distributor. He has starteddistribution recently and can be reached at 206-488-9806.The Gossamer is about 2/0 in size.A.J.thramer from hexagon@odyssee.net Fri Apr 24 15:43:04 1998 (205.236.249.107) Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides Tungten guides were just spring steel guides but were called tungstenbecausethey contained a small amount. They should have been called music wireguides,itwould have been more honest.Terry FLYROD777 wrote: Does anyone know where I can get some tungsten snake guides orsomething thatlooks like tungsten? Need a set for 9 ft rod built in the 40's. Mark Hallowell847-688-1330flyrod777@aol.com from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Fri Apr 24 16:15:24 1998 for Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine eestlow@srminc.com wrote: John, The Rodmakers page url is: http://home1.gte.net/jfoster/index.htm Happy hunting! -Ed Estlow I meant RodMAKERs not builders.Traver Becker from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Apr 24 16:37:07 1998 Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides RO>Tungten guides were just spring steel guides but were called tungstenbecausRO>they contained a small amount. They should have been called musicwire guideRO>would have been more honest.RO>Terry RO>FLYROD777 wrote: RO>> Does anyone know where I can get some tungsten snake guides orsomething tRO>> looks like tungsten? Need a set for 9 ft rod built in the 40's.RO>>RO>> Mark HallowellRO>> 847-688-1330RO>> flyrod777@aol.com Mark, You can buy Pacific Bay guides in black - they are as close as you'llfind today. Bob Marriott's sells them at a good price. Don Burns from FLYROD777@aol.com Fri Apr 24 18:00:31 1998 Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides Ah now does anyone have the address for Bob Marriots? Mark from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri Apr 24 18:21:40 1998 Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides RO>Ah now does anyone have the address for Bob Marriots? RO>Mark Mark, Sorry, I didn't include it before. Bob Marriott's Flyfishing Store2700 West Orangethorpe AvenueFullerton, CA 92833(714) 525-1827 FAX - 5783Orders (800) 535-6633 FAX orders (800) 367-2299 Try this URL for them too: www.bobmarriotts.com Don Burns from saltwein@swbell.net Fri Apr 24 19:18:39 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net TAA23276 Subject: Re: Cork JOHN E COLE wrote: SteveI recently attended a seminar on rod building where cork was discussed."Flor" cork is supposed to be the best, but "the best"is the best of whatthat dealer has in stock. The large rod building companies are buying thevery best cork produced and the supply houses get what's left. By theway, "Custom Tackle" is a very reputable company and I feel sure if youcontact them , they will do their best to make you happy. No, I an notconnected with them, but I met Bob McKamey, owner, and his sidekickScottAbell, at this seminar and they are very nice people.John E. Cole John, I wasn't trying to put Custom Tackle down, just describing what Isuspect is a problem obtaining good cork anywhere. The cork order Imade was small enough to absorb. I am trying to get more informationbecause I believe to get good cork you have to make a good size order from a distributor. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from amcsmith@nlis.net Fri Apr 24 20:20:08 1998 Subject: granger gentlemen,any one have some knowlege about granger rods and can give me an ideaabout them i have a 9' granger special that i like very much. also am looking fora crisp dt-4wt taper for a 71/2' 3 peace rod would really like some input iam new to bamboo so need something fairly fast action am working on acheaprod winderwill furish a materials list if it works well, also found plans for metalplaning forms on tom penroses page they look good any suggestions thanks chris smith from LECLAIR123@aol.com Fri Apr 24 20:21:03 1998 Subject: Re: Al,Just thought I'd say hi.Havn't talked to you in awhile.How are yourdogs doing? Great I hope. I enjoyed you guys comming out that day. Hope to see youguys again one of these days. Dave LeClair from flyrod@artistree.com Sat Apr 25 02:19:45 1998 AAA04054 Subject: Re: granger The latest issue (Mar./April) of "The Planing Form" has a number ofGrangerTapers listed.RegardsChris Wohlford chrisannmarie wrote: gentlemen,any one have some knowlege about granger rods and can give me an ideaaboutthem i have a 9' granger special that i like very much. also am lookingfora crisp dt-4wt taper for a 71/2' 3 peace rod would really like some inputiam new to bamboo so need something fairly fast action am working on acheaprod winderwill furish a materials list if it works well, also found plans for metalplaning forms on tom penroses page they look good any suggestionsthanks chris smith from flyrod@artistree.com Sat Apr 25 02:29:59 1998 AAA04280 Subject: Sure is quite out there What's going on? Guess everyone just got their new issue of the "ThePlaningForm" and "The Bamboo Fly Rod." Oh well....back to winding those silkwraps. from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat Apr 25 08:42:12 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA36168 +0200 Subject: Silk Lines IAA13409 Gentlemen Not having any expirience with silk lines myself, I have noticed some ofYouraving about using silk lines. Recently I met a fellow flyfisher, also a silk line fan. He has a HEH line(whatever that is) that 5 years ago got sticky. Being a bit of an inventor,hereconditioned it, adding some additives to the stuff, You soak the linewith. Hehas used the line infrequently for the past 5 years, and claims it it still inperfectly good conditioned, with no stickyness whatsover. Having only tried it on one line, he would like to recondition more lines, inorder to perfect his method. So, if any of You have old, sticky silk lines, please contact me. Myaquiantancewill then, costfree, recondition Your lines. It'll cost you absolutelynothing.I'll pay the return post. When more trials have been done, I'll post "the reciept" on the list for alltouse. He is, BTW also a rodbuilder, both cane AND graphite, and knows what he isdoing regards, Carsten cmj@post11.tele.dk from sats@gte.net Sat Apr 25 13:28:11 1998 Subject: Re: NAA23903 Al,Just thought I'd say hi.Havn't talked to you in awhile.How are yourdogs doing? Great I hope. I enjoyed you guys comming out that day. Hope to see youguys again one of these days. Dave, Didn't make it to all, almost went into my bit bucket.] Good luck --Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat Apr 25 17:26:55 1998 Subject: Re: Test ING 123 from SalarFly@aol.com Sat Apr 25 19:08:14 1998 Subject: A Bamboo Cannon First a little background:Some of you may remember a couple months agoat a fishing exposition I spent a day in the BambooFlyrod Magazine booth splitting cane, planing cane,and answering questions. We were right in front of thecasting pond, and they had a distance casting contest.Steve Rayjeff, Jamie Lyle, Lori-Ann Murphy and a fewothers were competing. Mark Metcalf and I startedtalking about building a bamboo rod for distancecasting. We both feel that a bamboo rod can bemade that will out distance the graphite rods. Whatwe want to do now is prove it. We already have some ideas, such as hollow, doublebuilt, 9 ft. long, staggered ferrule, titanium guides,double stripper guide. What we aren't too sure aboutis the taper. I have seen some posts here saying theparabolic rods can throw a lot of line, but is it anybetter than a well executed fast taper? Lets hear your ideas! This is our chance to kill oneof the bamboo myths ie. "Bamboo can't cast as far asgraphite". This rod _will_ be built, and we want it to beready for the San Mateo flyfishing fair in November. Darryl Hayashida from steveobg@nacs.net Sat Apr 25 20:16:06 1998 Subject: Re: Sure is quite out there C.J. Wohlford wrote: What's going on? Guess everyone just got their new issue of the "ThePlaningForm" and "The Bamboo Fly Rod." Oh well....back to winding those silkwraps. Or perhaps they've all gone fishing... -Steve (Just returned from fishing) -- -Someone once said,"If life is going to exist in a Universe of this size, then the one thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion." from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sat Apr 25 20:51:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A1DE29A600B0; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 18:46:06 PST Subject: Re: Sure is quite out there I'm going fishing Monday, wont be so crowded.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Sure is quite out there C.J. Wohlford wrote: What's going on? Guess everyone just got their new issue of the "ThePlaningForm" and "The Bamboo Fly Rod." Oh well....back to winding those silkwraps. Or perhaps they've all gone fishing... -Steve (Just returned from fishing) ---Someone once said,"If life is going to exist in a Universe of this size, then theone thing it cannot afford to have is a sense of proportion." from rcurry@top.monad.net Sat Apr 25 21:50:34 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Darryl,Take a look at Chris Bogart's 9'6". Chris made me a blank, hollowbuilt, nodeless, and very much the cannon. He based his design on aLeonard Tournament taper.Best regards,Reed from rennyg@ibm.net Sun Apr 26 00:23:22 1998 out1.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id FAA92090 for; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:23:14 GMT Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Darryl, be lost by disproving the myth than what may be gained by leaving italone. What if indeed it's proven that bamboo can cast further thangraphite (although I'm skeptical, given the modulus numbers I've heardregarding the 2 materials)? Do we really want to contend with a massiveshift in the popularity of bamboo? Don't you think that once bamboo wasrecognized as superior in all aspects to graphite, that the major rodcompanies with the big bucks would quickly make needed changes tocapture the huge new market, not to mention cornering the suppliers ofthe best of the source materials? A good share of the beauty of bamboo for me is its tradition. Bringmass manufacturing into the field and that tradition becomes as trampledas a trout stream after a logging company has cleared the forest aroundit. Thus from my standpoint, build the rod(s), but please don't tell methe results in its comparison to graphite. I am perfectly happy fishingbamboo regardless of whether it casts further than graphite and I haveno ill feelings for those that fish graphite simply because they believerightly or wrongly it is possible to cast further.Renny SalarFly wrote: .... Mark Metcalf and I startedtalking about building a bamboo rod for distancecasting. We both feel that a bamboo rod can bemade that will out distance the graphite rods. Whatwe want to do now is prove it.......This is our chance to kill oneof the bamboo myths ie. "Bamboo can't cast as far asgraphite". This rod _will_ be built, and we want it to beready for the San Mateo flyfishing fair in November. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sun Apr 26 00:30:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A53B2BF60096; Sat, 25 Apr 1998 22:25:15 PST Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Which is best, how far or how well? Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Darryl, be lost by disproving the myth than what may be gained by leaving italone. What if indeed it's proven that bamboo can cast further thangraphite (although I'm skeptical, given the modulus numbers I've heardregarding the 2 materials)? Do we really want to contend with a massiveshift in the popularity of bamboo? Don't you think that once bamboo wasrecognized as superior in all aspects to graphite, that the major rodcompanies with the big bucks would quickly make needed changes tocapture the huge new market, not to mention cornering the suppliers ofthe best of the source materials? A good share of the beauty of bamboo for me is its tradition. Bringmass manufacturing into the field and that tradition becomes astrampledas a trout stream after a logging company has cleared the forest aroundit. Thus from my standpoint, build the rod(s), but please don't tell methe results in its comparison to graphite. I am perfectly happy fishingbamboo regardless of whether it casts further than graphite and I haveno ill feelings for those that fish graphite simply because they believerightly or wrongly it is possible to cast further.Renny SalarFly wrote: .... Mark Metcalf and I startedtalking about building a bamboo rod for distancecasting. We both feel that a bamboo rod can bemade that will out distance the graphite rods. Whatwe want to do now is prove it.......This is our chance to kill oneof the bamboo myths ie. "Bamboo can't cast as far asgraphite". This rod _will_ be built, and we want it to beready for the San Mateo flyfishing fair in November. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Apr 26 00:49:08 1998 Subject: Re: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Renny,Well said. I don't care if bamboo can cast as far as graphite, I fish itbecause I like it over other materials. I liked flyfishing because thereweren't the tournaments like bass fishing etc. and now they've even donethat( the one fly) etc. Lets just leave this alone, maybe I am old school but Iremember when there wasn't all the BS in this hobby as there is todaywhatwith all the newbees and yuppies involved. I remember when people wouldaskmy wife where I was and she would say fly fishing and they would go " flyfishing whats that?) Now everywhere you look it is the in thing to do. Soifwe want to be able to buy our rod building stuff and not have to fight thebigguys let sleeping dogs lie and forget the cannon.Bret from channer@hubwest.com Sun Apr 26 02:52:21 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A8151E200E6; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:53:57 MDT Subject: bamboo cannon Darryl; impression that casting had as much , if not more, to do with who's handheld the rod as with what that hand held. Unless you can get someone whocan compete with the current distance champions( if there is such a thing)I wouldn't hope for much. As for bamboo ever seriously competeing forsaleswith graphite, I don't think it will ever happen. If that were possiblethen it would have already happened.Profit is what drives any industry andif the profit was in bamboo, then the racks in the fly shops would be fullof bamboo rods, not graphite.Just .002c's worth.John Channer from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sun Apr 26 04:55:51 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA41648 +0200 Subject: Sv: A Bamboo Cannon EAA31282 Sir D Even if such a cannon is built, You still face the biggest problem: Who isgoingto use it? All the big time stars are, as I think we agreed on a couple ofmonths ago, on the payrole of one of the big companies. If You think, You are gonna get one of them to use the Cannon, forget it.Theyknow, which side of the bread is buttered. If "The Cannon" is built, you have to make direct contact to Orvis, Loomisorwhatever and have them promote the thing by "sponsoring" a famous(Competent)caster. How do you rate the chance of success, and, if the miracle shouldhappen, who is going to be in control? As usual no flaming is intended, but I sure wouldn't bet on this one. As Isaida couple of months ago: You can't beat the mega-buck selling machine. But it sure could be fun doing the thing..................... regards Carsten from jstickle@erols.com Sun Apr 26 05:43:33 1998 Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides Terence Ackland wrote: Tungten guides were just spring steel guides but were called tungstenbecausethey contained a small amount. They should have been called music wireguides,itwould have been more honest.Terry FLYROD777 wrote: Does anyone know where I can get some tungsten snake guides orsomethingthatlooks like tungsten? Need a set for 9 ft rod built in the 40's. Mark Hallowell847-688-1330flyrod777@aol.com Last year Merrick Tackle 1-800-686-8904 (wholesale only) carried atungsten guide at abour $4.25 each. This year it is discontinued but,they are selling a plated (w/tungsten) guide. It looks like a gun metalgrey color and is cheaper than last year's model. Jeff Sticklejstickle@erols.com from channer@hubwest.com Sun Apr 26 08:16:55 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A42547600E2; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 07:18:29 MDT Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides At 06:41 AM 4/26/98 -0400, you wrote:Terence Ackland wrote: Tungten guides were just spring steel guides but were called tungstenbecausethey contained a small amount. They should have been called music wireguides, itwould have been more honest.Terry FLYROD777 wrote: Does anyone know where I can get some tungsten snake guides orsomething thatlooks like tungsten? Need a set for 9 ft rod built in the 40's. Mark Hallowell847-688-1330flyrod777@aol.com Last year Merrick Tackle 1-800-686-8904 (wholesale only) carried atungsten guide at abour $4.25 each. This year it is discontinued but,they are selling a plated (w/tungsten) guide. It looks like a gun metalgrey color and is cheaper than last year's model. Jeff Sticklejstickle@erols.com Try Ricks Rods, they claim to have older Perfection guides. There is alink thru Rodmakers to them.John Channer from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Apr 26 11:41:14 1998 (205.236.249.137) Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon So this guy Metcalf says that bamboo can outcast graphite in distancecasting?Sir, he was either pulling your pisser or was drunk.Terry SalarFly wrote: First a little background:Some of you may remember a couple months agoat a fishing exposition I spent a day in the BambooFlyrod Magazine booth splitting cane, planing cane,and answering questions. We were right in front of thecasting pond, and they had a distance casting contest.Steve Rayjeff, Jamie Lyle, Lori-Ann Murphy and a fewothers were competing. Mark Metcalf and I startedtalking about building a bamboo rod for distancecasting. We both feel that a bamboo rod can bemade that will out distance the graphite rods. Whatwe want to do now is prove it. We already have some ideas, such as hollow, doublebuilt, 9 ft. long, staggered ferrule, titanium guides,double stripper guide. What we aren't too sure aboutis the taper. I have seen some posts here saying theparabolic rods can throw a lot of line, but is it anybetter than a well executed fast taper? Lets hear your ideas! This is our chance to kill oneof the bamboo myths ie. "Bamboo can't cast as far asgraphite". This rod _will_ be built, and we want it to beready for the San Mateo flyfishing fair in November. Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sun Apr 26 11:56:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A62844301D0; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 09:51:52 PST Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Who has the records that were set in the heyday of tournament castingwhenbamboo rods were being used so they can be compared to the records thatarebeing set with todays graphite rods.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon So this guy Metcalf says that bamboo can outcast graphite in distancecasting?Sir, he was either pulling your pisser or was drunk.Terry SalarFly wrote: First a little background:Some of you may remember a couple months agoat a fishing exposition I spent a day in the BambooFlyrod Magazine booth splitting cane, planing cane,and answering questions. We were right in front of thecasting pond, and they had a distance casting contest.Steve Rayjeff, Jamie Lyle, Lori-Ann Murphy and a fewothers were competing. Mark Metcalf and I startedtalking about building a bamboo rod for distancecasting. We both feel that a bamboo rod can bemade that will out distance the graphite rods. Whatwe want to do now is prove it. We already have some ideas, such as hollow, doublebuilt, 9 ft. long, staggered ferrule, titanium guides,double stripper guide. What we aren't too sure aboutis the taper. I have seen some posts here saying theparabolic rods can throw a lot of line, but is it anybetter than a well executed fast taper? Lets hear your ideas! This is our chance to kill oneof the bamboo myths ie. "Bamboo can't cast as far asgraphite". This rod _will_ be built, and we want it to beready for the San Mateo flyfishing fair in November. Darryl Hayashida from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Apr 26 12:28:08 1998 Subject: Penetrol? All, Has anyone experimented with adding Penetrol (by the Flood Co.) to sparvarnish? It's designed to boost the VOC level. Don Burns from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun Apr 26 15:17:49 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon At 12:41 PM 4/26/98 -0400, you wrote: Sir, he was either pulling your pisser or was drunk.Terry Now there's an image for ya! from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun Apr 26 15:22:28 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon At 09:56 AM 4/26/98 -0700, you wrote:Who has the records that were set in the heyday of tournament castingwhenbamboo rods were being used so they can be compared to the records thatarebeing set with todays graphite rods.Dell Coppock, Dell, Trout Fly Distance:1937Dick Miller, Hunting Beach, CAAverage: 176 2/3Longest: 183 Salmon Fly Distance:1944Robert Piros, St. Louis, MOAverage: 186 1/3Longest: 192The records I have (NAACC) cover the years from 1921 to 1948(missing23&27). But these were years before they were using a "double-haul". Alsoremember all of the restriction put on rods through these years. If weare talking no restrictions on size or weight one would have to wonder ifit could be done. --- Now, how long of a line can a graphite rod cast? ---Gary H. P.S. I sure would like to see any records from the post WWII era. from SalarFly@aol.com Sun Apr 26 15:26:14 1998 Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides In a message dated 4/24/98 4:02:33 PM Pacific Daylight Time,FLYROD777@aol.comwrites: Ah now does anyone have the address for Bob Marriots? http://www.bobmarriotts.com Darryl from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sun Apr 26 16:11:41 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine That's what you got.Hank. from penr0295@uidaho.edu Sun Apr 26 16:12:41 1998 OAA11254 doing-bs Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon casting site of sorts at:http://home.att.net/~slowsnap/index.htm The following "History of the Double-Haul" is from that site. The first documented description of the double haul known to ye oldeauthor was at the 1934 American Casting Association national tournamentinSt. Louis Missouri. A Portland Oregon man, Marvin K. Hedge, won the flyrod distance event using a technique that was unknown to the othercasters. This was the double haul. At that time the average of the threebest of five casts was used to determine the winner and Marvin Hedgeaveraged 136 5/6 feet with a long cast of 147. As were many of theprominent casters of that era, Marvin Hedge was a tackle rep. The longestwinning average before that had been 121 2/3 feet in 1928 and the longestlong cast had been 124 in 1931 so it seems that the double haul providedan edge but not a huge edge. However, in following years this changed. By1937 an average of 176 2/3 with a long cast of 183 was recorded in thenational championships. One thing to remember is that these were outdoorcontests with the wind helping so some differences could be traced to abrisk favoring wind. Also, these were bamboo rod figures. In the 1997 nationals the men'seventwas won by Steve Rajeff with a 182 and the women's with a 137 by AliceGillibert, which was also a new women's record. Biggest change of coursehas been the graphite rod. The rod for this event is now 9 feet longversus 9'6" in the thirties. We also have nylon running line now. However,the double haul is still the same and still the name of the distance game.Sometime this year (1998) we will have some new scientific stuff in thetips for experienced casters page about the double haul and the effects ofdifferent sequences and timing strategies upon that cast Thomas PenroseBend, OR from flyrod@artistree.com Sun Apr 26 16:27:50 1998 OAA08009 Subject: Bamboo Entrepreneurs I have seen numerous posts on this list regarding the little guyscompetingagainst the big boys. Most seem to be negative in nature and state that itwould be extremely difficult if not impossible to compete. Well, I'm sorrybut this line of thinking does not accomplish anything. I live and work inSilicon Valley and deal with this issue on a daily basis in the high-techworld. This country has been producing entrepreneurs since it declaredindependence in 1776. You want to hear some recent success stories? Take a look at any of thefollowing industries:Micro breweriesSnow Board CompaniesSurf Board CompaniesComputer Software & HardwareCalif. & Oregon WineriesMountain Bike CompaniesTennis RacketsGolf ClubsThis list could go on and on... You would not even be reading this communication via your browser ifsomeone did not invent and market the product and it was college studentnot Microsoft! It's not a question of whether change is good or bad but rather if you wantto participate. I for one encourage your participation if not only to findpositive healthy solutions to the negative issues that can arise from thechange. Best Regards,Chris "I've calmed down now" Wohlford P.S. - Darryl - Build that baby! And please let me buy you dinner when yourin San Mateo this Nov. from saltwein@swbell.net Sun Apr 26 16:53:04 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net QAA08017 Subject: Fishing the rod I got out with my first bamboo rod today. I went to a friends pond. The rod cast beyond my expectations and even did well in roll casting. It held up to bringing in a dozen or more of the 9"-10" blue gills thathis pond features, and both of my friends raved about the way it casts. All in all a good outing. Regards, SteveIndependence, Mo from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Apr 26 16:54:46 1998 Subject: Re: Penetrol? Don,I use Penetrol when we do outside painting and it helps immensly in thedurability of the coatings to the weather. I would not hesitate to add it tothe finish if you are so inclined. You asked if anyone else has tried whydon't you be the first and report back to the rest of us.Bret from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Sun Apr 26 17:00:17 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod Congratulations Steve, it does feel good, doesn't it!Harry Steve Trauthwein wrote: I got out with my first bamboo rod today. I went to a friends pond.The rod cast beyond my expectations and even did well in roll casting. It held up to bringing in a dozen or more of the 9"-10" blue gills thathis pond features, and both of my friends raved about the way it casts.All in all a good outing. Regards, SteveIndependence, Mo from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun Apr 26 17:49:41 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon At 02:12 PM 4/26/98 -0700, you wrote:There is a tournament fly casting site of sorts at:http://home.att.net/~slowsnap/index.htmsnipThomas PenroseBend, OR Thomas,Thank you. Gary H. from jfoster@gte.net Sun Apr 26 18:29:01 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Terry I forgot to congratulate you this morning, i think that was a Hall ofFamer'. Jerry from jfoster@gte.net Sun Apr 26 18:36:27 1998 Subject: [Fwd: resigning from list] A8D425B2C3677262D8A6D862" This is a multi-part message in MIME format.-------------- A8D425B2C3677262D8A6D862 Mike jerry --------------A8D425B2C3677262D8A6D862 (Intermail v3.1 117 242) with ESMTP wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id SAA05456 for; Organization: The Miller Family Subject: resigning from list Mr Foster, two weeks ago I cancelled my AOL service but I forgot to unsubscribe from the List.My former email address wasEMILLER257@AOL.COM.Please remove that address from the list . Sorry if this caused anyone problems. Sincerely, Ed Miller --------------A8D425B2C3677262D8A6D862-- from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Apr 26 19:07:10 1998 Subject: RE:Fishing the rod RO>I got out with my first bamboo rod today. I went to a friends pond.RO>The rod cast beyond my expectations and even did well in roll casting. RO>It held up to bringing in a dozen or more of the 9"-10" blue gills thatRO>his pond features, and both of my friends raved about the way it casts.RO>All in all a good outing. RO>Regards, SteveRO>Independence, Mo Steve, Good going sir - now wipe that SEG off your face. Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun Apr 26 19:08:09 1998 Subject: Re[2]: Penetrol? RO>Don,RO>I use Penetrol when we do outside painting and it helps immensly intheRO>durability of the coatings to the weather. I would not hesitate to addit tRO>the finish if you are so inclined. You asked if anyone else has triedwhyRO>don't you be the first and report back to the rest of us.RO>Bret I was wondering if it will reduce any chance of runs in the varnish orincrease the chance. Don from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun Apr 26 19:35:06 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Penetrol? At 05:06 PM 4/26/98 -0600, you wrote:snipincrease the chance. Don Don, Is Penetrol a wetting agent?Gary H. from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun Apr 26 19:41:21 1998 (205.236.249.224) Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Jerry Foster wrote: Terry I forgot to congratulate you this morning, i think that was a Hall ofFamer'. Jerry Thanks Jerry,Imagine how much money could have been saved on the Stealth aircraftproject if the designers had asked some of us guys for advice!Terry from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Apr 26 19:45:28 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id TAA18607 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id TAA19322 for ; Sun, 26 Apr1998 Subject: Rod wrapping supports How do people support their rod sections when wrapping guides? I've got a pair of homemade supports with caster wheels mounted on a base that worked OK for round rods but is a nuisance for cane. Would a V-notch support work better or do people just freehand it?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Sun Apr 26 19:50:37 1998 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id TAA29698 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id TAA20083 for ; Sun, 26 Apr1998 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod Congratulations, Steve. I finished my first just about a year agoand I know how you feel. Have a good summer fishing the rod, thenstart the next one.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. On Sun, 26 Apr 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: I got out with my first bamboo rod today. I went to a friends pond. The rod cast beyond my expectations and even did well in roll casting. It held up to bringing in a dozen or more of the 9"-10" blue gills thathis pond features, and both of my friends raved about the way it casts. All in all a good outing. Regards, SteveIndependence, Mo from channer@hubwest.com Sun Apr 26 20:17:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id ACED61C00E2; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:18:37 MDT Subject: Re: Fishing the rod At 04:54 PM 4/26/98 -0700, you wrote:I got out with my first bamboo rod today. I went to a friends pond. The rod cast beyond my expectations and even did well in roll casting. It held up to bringing in a dozen or more of the 9"-10" blue gills thathis pond features, and both of my friends raved about the way it casts. All in all a good outing. Regards, SteveIndependence, Mo Steve;Congratualtions! Great feeling, isn't it John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sun Apr 26 20:23:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AE5423D00E8; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:24:36 MDT Subject: Re: Rod wrapping supports At 07:45 PM 4/26/98 -0500, you wrote:How do people support their rod sections when wrapping guides? I've got a pair of homemade supports with caster wheels mounted on a base that worked OK for round rods but is a nuisance for cane. Would a V-notch support work better or do people just freehand it?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank;I use v-notched supports with a rubber band stretched across the rod totension it so I can let let go of the rod without the thread unravelling. Iglued felt to the notches, also.Low tech, but works for me. BTW, thanks fora great program, I've had lots of fun with it and I think I'm even learningsomething, to. John Channer from Canerods@aol.com Sun Apr 26 20:42:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Penetrol? In a message dated 98-04-26 20:37:39 EDT, you write: Gary, from their literature - "Penetrol is a stable, durable paint oil whichcompensates for the adverse effects that weather and surface conitionshave onpaint." Also claims to mix with varnish. Adds extra oils to paint and varnish. Don from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sun Apr 26 21:10:48 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A7DB4FA01D0; Sun, 26 Apr 1998 19:05:15 PST Subject: Re: Rod wrapping supports Frank & John, instead of felt try using sheared wool such as used in flydrying patches or fleece it will let the rod turn more even.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Rod wrapping supports At 07:45 PM 4/26/98 -0500, you wrote:How do people support their rod sections when wrapping guides? I've got a pair of homemade supports with caster wheels mountedon a base that worked OK for round rods but is a nuisance for cane.Would a V-notch support work better or do people just freehand it?......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and aEmployed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. Frank;I use v-notched supports with a rubber band stretched across the rod totension it so I can let let go of the rod without the thread unravelling. Iglued felt to the notches, also.Low tech, but works for me. BTW, thanksfora great program, I've had lots of fun with it and I think I'm even learningsomething, to. John Channer from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun Apr 26 22:13:19 1998 Subject: Re: J Ryall reels Does anybody have a URL or email address for Ryall? Rob Hoffhines from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Apr 26 22:22:05 1998 Subject: Re: Re[2]: Penetrol? Don,Penetrol is not really supposed to thin the material it is supposed toenhancethe open time and help penetration.bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sun Apr 26 22:26:32 1998 Subject: Re: Rod wrapping supports frank,I have been using a V shaped stand for 20+ years on cane and others, pad itwith felt strips and it should work just fine. If you want dimensions formine let me know.Bret from kgabd@clsp.uswest.net Sun Apr 26 22:32:34 1998 Subject: Re: J Ryall reels Nodewrrior wrote: Does anybody have a URL or email address for Ryall? Rob HoffhinesRob, just joined this forum and saw your name. Don't have the URL butwondered how those forms worked out that I sent you. Homer says you aredoing fine work & says hi. Kevin. from aalin@juno.com Sun Apr 26 23:45:32 1998 00:44:30 EDT Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 01:33:06 EDT Grhghlndr writes:Renny,Well said. I don't care if bamboo can cast as far as graphite, I fish itbecause I like it over other materials. I liked flyfishing because thereweren't the tournaments like bass fishing etc. and now they've even done that( the one fly) etc. Lets just leave this alone, maybe I am old school but Iremember when there wasn't all the BS in this hobby as there is today whatwith all the newbees and yuppies involved. I remember when people would askmy wife where I was and she would say fly fishing and they would go " flyfishing whats that?) Now everywhere you look it is the in thing to do. So ifwe want to be able to buy our rod building stuff and not have to fight the bigguys let sleeping dogs lie and forget the cannon.Bret AMEN!! I am not an 'old-dog', but I believe in the old ways of FF. Iguess I was raised by a good-'ole boy.... This is my first response to a posting, and I was wondering what is agood book for a newbie? Jason MartinAalin@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 27 00:15:42 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA5560 +0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs I, too, am in Silicon Valley and for 13 years owned a couple of companies(small,the larger one got up to 27 employees). Actually, being small has business advantages...you just have to be awareof themand move to capitalize on them. One obvious advantage is the ability to goaftermarkets that are "too small" for large companies. You can bet that acompany thesize of General Motors is NOT looking to diversify by snapping up any ofthe bamboofly rod market; however, it still is important to companies the size ofWinston andThomas & Thomas. Another advantage of small companies is the ability tomake decisionsquickly...if the bamboo rod market all of a sudden had a large demand for,say, 4' - 3wt - 3pcrods, I'm certain that Winston and Thomas & Thomas could have goodofferings injust a month or two. If General Motors was trying to offer a competingmodel, I'm surethat the report from their "fact finding committee" wouldn't even be in bythen! (Let alonethe feasibility studies, the ROI for management, the legal department'sreport and warnings,etc., etc., etc.) I believe that it is easier to MAINTAIN quality in asmall firm, though it isvery doubtful that you'd decide that ISO 9000 certification (which DOESNOTinsure ANYlevel of quality, only repeatability) was a good way to spend $100,000 ofcorporate funds. Just know your strong points (and your weak points), capitalize on yourstrong points andat least guard against being hurt by your weak points. George Bourke ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Bamboo EntrepreneursDate: Sunday, April 26, 1998 3:31 PM I have seen numerous posts on this list regarding the little guyscompetingagainst the big boys. Most seem to be negative in nature and state thatitwould be extremely difficult if not impossible to compete. Well, I'msorrybut this line of thinking does not accomplish anything. I live and workinSilicon Valley and deal with this issue on a daily basis in the high- techworld. This country has been producing entrepreneurs since it declaredindependence in 1776. You want to hear some recent success stories? Take a look at any of thefollowing industries:Micro breweriesSnow Board CompaniesSurf Board CompaniesComputer Software & HardwareCalif. & Oregon WineriesMountain Bike CompaniesTennis RacketsGolf ClubsThis list could go on and on... You would not even be reading this communication via your browser ifsomeone did not invent and market the product and it was collegestudentnot Microsoft! It's not a question of whether change is good or bad but rather if youwantto participate. I for one encourage your participation if not only tofindpositive healthy solutions to the negative issues that can arise from thechange. Best Regards,Chris "I've calmed down now" Wohlford P.S. - Darryl - Build that baby! And please let me buy you dinner whenyourin San Mateo this Nov. from stpete@netten.net Mon Apr 27 00:17:06 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id AAA15577 for Subject: Jason, get Wayne Cattanach's book. Jason, I have the Garrison book and Wayne Cattanach's book. I think each hasits merits, but if you only get one (he he he! like that'll happen!),get Cattanach's book. That coupled with some of the FAQ pages and aread of the archives on the Rodmakers Page should provide you with allyou'll need to get started. There are other books out there and some are classics and weregroundbreaking efforts for their time, but Wayne's book is the essenceof modern day bamboo rodmaking. KEEP IT SIMPLE. Mr. Barnes proved thatwith his early efforts and his book is inspirational. It's not thatcomplicated. Pay attention to detail and it'll all work out. Goodluck. Rick from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 27 00:18:18 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA7065 +0000 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Would it have been made out of bamboo??? ;^) George Bourke ----------From: Terence Ackland Subject: Re: A Bamboo CannonDate: Sunday, April 26, 1998 5:41 PM Thanks Jerry,Imagine how much money could have been saved on the Stealth aircraftproject if the designers had asked some of us guys for advice!Terry from gwr@seanet.com Mon Apr 27 00:25:16 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id WAA27939 for; Subject: Good Book (was Bamboo Cannon) Jason, I just read through Jack Howell's new tome, "The Lovely Reed." It's agood one and he gears it toward newbies. Russgwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com This is my first response to a posting, and I was wondering what is agood book for a newbie? Jason MartinAalin@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from measter@sdcoe.k12.ca.us Mon Apr 27 01:23:43 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs What the hell are you guys talking about!! There is nothing in theoriginal post about going into production on the thing. Some guy justwants to build a rod. So let him build the rod while you take a valium. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon Apr 27 01:54:53 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA15803;Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:54:20 +0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs I don't know what "post" you are referring to...Chris said "postS" so Iassumed thathe is referring to the Jon Lintvet surveys that people have sent to theRodmakerslistserver instead of directly to Jon. Also, many people on this list(George Mauer,George Barnes, Chris Bogart, A.J. Thramer, Wayne Cattanach, and others)buildbamboo fly rods professionally, for sale and DO run businesses doing so. So mellowout, catch up with the conversation, and be tolerant. This is a very nicelist wheremost people on it GO OUT OF THEIR WAY to answer others' questions. Justbecausehaving a business doesn't interest you, doesn't mean that it isn't a validtopic ofdiscussion. Even if the topic doesn't interest you in the context ofbamboo rods,you may find the info useful in other areas.(BTW -- I wouldn't want to build bamboo rods professionally either.) George Bourke----------From: mark east Subject: Re: Bamboo EntrepreneursDate: Sunday, April 26, 1998 3:30 PM What the hell are you guys talking about!! There is nothing in theoriginal post about going into production on the thing. Some guy justwants to build a rod. So let him build the rod while you take a valium. from flytier@worldonline.nl Mon Apr 27 05:59:20 1998 (METDST) Subject: Re: Handles wrote: I was looking at one of Tom Moran's very nice handles the other day.It features inset bamboo strips (running fore 'n aft) in anotherwise all cork handle filler: these to take the pressure fromthe reel bands, and to prevent the bands from biting into the cork.Does anyone have any advice to offer on the making and fitting ofthese two bamboo strips....Tom spent some time at Thomas and Thomas, but I believe the rod I sawpre-dates that period. John, Apologies for the delay responding to your thread. Heavy backlog of email... ;-( Anyway, to address the last point you made: Before Tom went to work feature the bamboo strips you refer to. Cheers,Hans ====================== You have friends in Low Places======================= ============================================================================= from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Apr 27 06:28:23 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA20097 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod Steve, Good going sir - now wipe that SEG off your face. Don Burns Don, That grin is hard to wipe off! I should finish my Milward binder todayand have the second rod wrapped by the end of the week. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Apr 27 06:34:57 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA21558 Subject: Re: Rod wrapping supports Frank Stetzer wrote: How do people support their rod sections when wrapping guides? I have a support made in the form of commercial rod wrapping supportsexcept I used walnut and put a 1/2" radius at the bottom of the V's. Ithen glued strips of suede ( from my fly tying desk) in the bottom of theV's. Instead of rubber bands I use elastic that is found in sewing centers totension the rod in the holder. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Apr 27 06:46:32 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA24223 Subject: Re: Good Book (was Bamboo Cannon) Jason, I think Cattanach, Garrison and the archives are a must. I wouldrecommend that you go to the library to find a copy of the Barnes book,to read. I doubt if I would have made the effort in bamboo without thisbook. It makes it all seem doable. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from MMills1189@aol.com Mon Apr 27 07:39:53 1998 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod Steve, What was your first rod? was it a new design?Mark from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon Apr 27 08:03:11 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Darryl,I built a 3 pc ,8' , 7wgt. I could false cast 110' I'll send you the taperwhen I get the time-I'm up to my ears in guiding and teaching fly fishingright now. The rod was one of 6 of that taper I made and I took the finalmeasurements after it performed so well.Regards,Hank. from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Mon Apr 27 08:05:01 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:04:27 -0400 Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:04:27 -0400 Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine I have a store locally that does repairs and has a box full of tensionershe sell for $1-$2 a piece. Check out your local repair shops... Also agreat source for cheap turning motor, etc. FLYROD777@aol.com on 04/24/98 02:02:31 AM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Garrison style rod binding machine When making the binder I added a new touch (we all have to play) I went tothe sewing store and bought a sewing machine tensioning device ($11). Iused it verus thee tension washers or button washers. The nice extra is ithas a numbered dial on top so you can pre set the tension. Just my $.02. Mark from Ragnarig@aol.com Mon Apr 27 09:16:18 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Well, I guess I am going to have to reassess the way I am doing thesethings. See, I've been thinking all along that Steve RaJeff was Three differentcats,and that this 135 ft. casting was a kind of relay. Now I go to his websiteand find that this is a singles competition. Kreitzkrutzifix! from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Mon Apr 27 09:48:17 1998 Subject: Re: [Fwd: resigning from list] I'll take care of Jer', thanks... Mike- ps: will we be seeing you in Grayrock this year??? from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Apr 27 09:57:05 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAB21044 +0200 Subject: Sv: Handles JAA15698 ---- wrote:I was looking at one of Tom Moran's very nice handles the other day.It features inset bamboo strips (running fore 'n aft) in anotherwise all cork handle filler: these to take the pressure fromthe reel bands, and to prevent the bands from biting into the cork.Does anyone have any advice to offer on the making and fitting ofthese two bamboo strips. Hello John Haven't seen Tom Morans page, but here is how I make bamboo inserts asYoudescribed: make a 60 degrees split in your planingform - straight taper. File a groove in the cork with a (surprise - surprise) 60 degrees small file Glue up Thats all there is to it Regards, Carsten from AWood70928@aol.com Mon Apr 27 10:22:59 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Handles Carsten, That's way to easy - there just has to be more to it :))) A couple of questions, how deep do you make the groove in the cork, andwhatdo you use for glue? How many inserts do you normally use in a grip, andhowdo you go about shaping them afterwards? Last - I promise - have youusedother woods - say that match the real seat? Thanks for the great idea, Al Carsten wrote from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon Apr 27 10:46:38 1998 Subject: Re[3]: Penetrol? RO>Don,RO>Penetrol is not really supposed to thin the material it is supposed toenhanRO>the open time and help penetration.RO>bret Thanks Bret. Don from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Apr 27 11:18:19 1998 JAA17432 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Mark,I was referring to the many posts that have appeared on this list in therecent past but more specifically the post listed below. Sorry if this wasconfusing but past discussions have based themselves around weather onecan compete with larger established companies if Bamboo Rods becamepopular with the public. This would include mass production, marketingandso on. I personally know of one small company that is about to give massproduction of Bamboo Rods a go and I was simply trying to giveinspiration to others who think about doing so. I suspect that there a fewbuilders out there that do think about it.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Renny Greenmum said........Don't you think that once bamboo was recognized as superior in allaspects to graphite, that the major rod companies with the big buckswouldquickly make needed changes to capture the huge new market, not tomentioncornering the suppliers of the best of the source materials?..... mark east wrote: What the hell are you guys talking about!! There is nothing in theoriginal post about going into production on the thing. Some guy justwants to build a rod. So let him build the rod while you take a valium. from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Apr 27 12:16:09 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net MAA24782 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod MMills1189 wrote: Steve, What was your first rod? was it a new design?Mark Mark, I built a 7' 4 wt. to the Wayne Cattanach taper. The one DarrylHayashida raved about. Thanks Darryl. Regards, SteveIndependence, Mo from jfoster@gte.net Mon Apr 27 13:12:22 1998 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod DarrylWhy don't you let me post your taper, i know it's a slight mod to acatt taper. i think thats good. seems to make another good rod. regards jerry from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon Apr 27 13:16:45 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Bret,I need to preface this with a disclamer: THIS IS NOT A FLAME! justanother way of looking at it. If we are talking casting touraments....they have been held longbeforeanyone on this list was born. I personaly picked-up my first fly rod in1950- something and remember, at that time, my dad and his croniestalkingdistance and "cannons". Looking at the over all picture it does seem to bepart of the tradition of the sport. Let's not forget that at some point weare all considered 'up-starts'. That doesn't necessarily mean a lack ofsincerity - more a lack of experience. I also liked the way things were(nostalgia is comfortable) but that is not to say I don't like the way theyare (change is exciting). IM-not~so-HO without change and new ideas itwould all get rather boring. So, Darryl, get your big dog out (no matterwhat drunk's pulling on it) and put him in the fight.Gary H. At 01:33 AM 4/26/98 EDT, you wrote:Renny,Well said. I don't care if bamboo can cast as far as graphite, I fish itbecause I like it over other materials. I liked flyfishing because thereweren't the tournaments like bass fishing etc. and now they've even donethat( the one fly) etc. Lets just leave this alone, maybe I am old school but Iremember when there wasn't all the BS in this hobby as there is todaywhatwith all the newbees and yuppies involved. I remember when peoplewould askmy wife where I was and she would say fly fishing and they would go "flyfishing whats that?) Now everywhere you look it is the in thing to do.So ifwe want to be able to buy our rod building stuff and not have to fight thebigguys let sleeping dogs lie and forget the cannon.Bret from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 27 13:42:06 1998 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod In a message dated 4/27/98 11:17:07 AM Pacific Daylight Time,jfoster@gte.netwrites: Darryl> Why don't you let me post your taper, i know it's a slight mod toacatt taper. i think thats good. seems to make another good rod. regards jerry It's just an extra .002 inches in diameter at the 5, 10, and 15 inchstations, because I thought the stress curve went up too high atthose points. Nothing special.Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 27 13:45:24 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon In a message dated 4/27/98 11:18:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,destinycon@mindspring.com writes: So, Darryl, get your big dog out (no matterwhat drunk's pulling on it) and put him in the fight.Gary H. Have no fear, it's going to get built, I'm just not so sureI can beat the graphite guys, but I sure am going to havefun trying.Darryl from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon Apr 27 13:48:19 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA12062 +0200 Subject: Sv: Sv: Handles NAA01656 -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----Fra: AWood70928 Til: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Emne: Re: Sv: Handles Carsten, That's way to easy - there just has to be more to it :))) A couple of questions, how deep do you make the groove in the cork, andwhatdo you use for glue? How many inserts do you normally use in a grip, andhowdo you go about shaping them afterwards? Last - I promise - have youusedother woods - say that match the real seat? Thanks for the great idea, Al Carsten wrote File a groove in the cork with a (surprise - surprise) 60 degrees smallfileGlue up. Thats all there is to it>> Hello Al We seem to misunderstand each other. I'm talking about inserting bamboostripslongitudal in a reel seat made of cork, opposit to the reel. If I have given You a great idea, please share it :-) Otherwise - it IS easy, and there is no more to it. Strips go from top tobottomof reel seat. Groove and thickness of strips correspond. I use ordinarywhiteglue. Afterwards use fine wet'n dry paper. As to distance between twoinserts(which is what I use) 1/3 of an inch. This prevents sliding rings from embedding in the reel seat, but stillkeeps therings from sliding when fishing. Nice, easy solution, looking good, working alright - what more can onewish? regards Carsten from rennyg@ibm.net Mon Apr 27 14:42:34 1998 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA19874 for; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:42:29 GMT Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Chris,While I stand completely by my original post, in reading some of therepliesit appears that a few may have mistakenly interpreted my post as a flametoDarryl's idea of building a "Bamboo Cannon". I emphasize that I haveabsolutely the highest possible regard for Darryl who has time and timeagaincontributed original and outstandingly high quality advice regarding rodmaking. As for entrepreneurs, I doubt that anything I can say (nor anyone on thislist, for that matter) will have much impact in the attainment of theirgoals. Consequently, I doubt they they are in any real need of your defense!Renny C.J. Wohlford wrote: Mark,I was referring to the many posts that have appeared on this list in therecent past but more specifically the post listed below. Sorry if thiswasconfusing but past discussions have based themselves around weatheronecan compete with larger established companies if Bamboo Rods becamepopular with the public. This would include mass production, marketingandso on. I personally know of one small company that is about to give massproduction of Bamboo Rods a go and I was simply trying to giveinspiration to others who think about doing so. I suspect that there a fewbuilders out there that do think about it.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Renny Greenmum said........Don't you think that once bamboo was recognized as superior in allaspects to graphite, that the major rod companies with the big buckswouldquickly make needed changes to capture the huge new market, not tomentioncornering the suppliers of the best of the source materials?..... from AWood70928@aol.com Mon Apr 27 14:53:29 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Sv: Handles In a message dated 4/27/98 2:50:22 PM Eastern Daylight Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: Nope Carsten, you were perfectly clear in your post - My mind must stillbe abit numb from floating around in that 42 degree water in an undisclosedpondhere in Northern New Hampshire yesterday. Somehow I miss read it as youwereputting the bamboo strips in the Handle itself. Sorry about that. However,it did give me an idea and I have some experimenting to do right now - Iwilllet you know how it turns out. Thanks Al from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Apr 27 15:40:06 1998 (205.236.249.144) Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Sure George.Terry irish-george@worldnet.att.net wrote: Would it have been made out of bamboo??? ;^) George Bourke ----------From: Terence Ackland Subject: Re: A Bamboo CannonDate: Sunday, April 26, 1998 5:41 PM Thanks Jerry,Imagine how much money could have been saved on the Stealth aircraftproject if the designers had asked some of us guys for advice!Terry from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon Apr 27 16:02:25 1998 (205.236.249.144) Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Chris,I hope these guys that intend to take on the big guys are not going to handplane!It might also be worth looking back to a posting last week concerning thewidow of WesJordan having to sell some of his personal rods to cover an operation.There is no money in bamboo rods, there never has been, it is too labourintensive. Companies like T&T and Winston make their money from thegraphiterods they put out and other catalogue goodies.I guess if a guy is used to low pay and long hours then rodmaking would beok, but to someone that is used to a good salary and benefits it is notmuchof dream.Terry C.J. Wohlford wrote: Mark,I was referring to the many posts that have appeared on this list in therecent past but more specifically the post listed below. Sorry if thiswasconfusing but past discussions have based themselves around weatheronecan compete with larger established companies if Bamboo Rods becamepopular with the public. This would include mass production, marketingandso on. I personally know of one small company that is about to give massproduction of Bamboo Rods a go and I was simply trying to giveinspiration to others who think about doing so. I suspect that there a fewbuilders out there that do think about it.Best Regards,Chris Wohlford Renny Greenmum said........Don't you think that once bamboo was recognized as superior in allaspects to graphite, that the major rod companies with the big buckswouldquickly make needed changes to capture the huge new market, not tomentioncornering the suppliers of the best of the source materials?..... mark east wrote: What the hell are you guys talking about!! There is nothing in theoriginal post about going into production on the thing. Some guy justwants to build a rod. So let him build the rod while you take a valium. from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon Apr 27 17:16:10 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Big Money and rodmakers have ALWAYS intertwined Lyle Dickerson - Lyle worked for a brief period for the John WiddicombFurniture - after Lyle went into rod amking John would call to placeorders susposed to be for clients and friends - after John death a safe wasopenedand there were 200 unfished Dickersons. Hl Leonard - Mills owned a controling share for several years - thenJohnsonWax company supported them - it was only after the Wax company decidedthatthey weren't going to underwrite the company that they fell into rearswiththe IRS and eventually were closed T&T - Up until the Irish Tax laws were changed a few years ago thecompanybleed 2 - 3 million a year - now under Lon Decker the image has changed Scott - The Scott Rod Company is owned by William Clay Ford - Mr FordMotorCompany himself - there recent move to Teluride was because thepresident JimFinney(A Gerber Baby Food grandson) wanted to be close to the companyand livein an 'appropiate' setting Powell - Charles S just bailed them out Orvis - I was to by their former marketing person that the bamboo deptwaskept for the "Image" from jdunnigan@wyle.com Mon Apr 27 18:20:26 1998 (Netscape Messaging Server 3.5) with SMTP id AAA272 0700 0700 Subject: working? =_NextPart_000_01BD71F7.5FD04F30" ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD71F7.5FD04F30 Has the fishing gotten good and everyone is occupied, or is the reason Ihaven'tgotten any mail is on my end? Jack------ =_NextPart_000_01BD71F7.5FD04F30 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 ------ =_NextPart_000_01BD71F7.5FD04F30-- from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 27 18:25:58 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A45457600E6; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 17:27:16 MDT Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon At 02:44 PM 4/27/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 4/27/98 11:18:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,destinycon@mindspring.com writes: So, Darryl, get your big dog out (no matterwhat drunk's pulling on it) and put him in the fight.Gary H. Have no fear, it's going to get built, I'm just not so sureI can beat the graphite guys, but I sure am going to havefun trying.Darryl Darryl;Will you(or your champion)be able to use your own rod? I was looking atthewebsite about casting tournaments and they all said that sponsors rodsmustbe used. I don't mean to dampen the excitement, just curious.Maybe you'llhave to hold your own tournament. John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Apr 27 18:32:52 1998 Tue, 28 Apr 1998 07:32:36 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Sv: Making Reels On Fri, 6 Mar 1998, john channer wrote: Back when I ordered my bamboo from Andy Royer, he mentioned that hesellsbamboo flooring. Hmmm,I wonder if you laminate that stuff if you could have a bamboo reel onyourbamboo rod? George Bourke Now, that would be something special. My immediate reaction is that isitpossible. I think the problem, if any, might be the glue. On the otherhand, laminated wood, IMO, is as strong, if not stronger, than "ordinary"wood.Carsten Carsten and George;I haven't seen Andy's flooring, but most of the laminated flooring I haveseen is like plywood,i.e. wood veneers glued together with the finishsidebeing the best veneer. Most of it has also been only 3/8ths thick, but Isuppose you could glue 2 pieces back to back and have finish on bothfaces.What I would wonder about is the type glue used to laminate the flooringand what would you do about covering the edges where the veneers show.Personally I think I would rather work with a dense, stable, tight grainedsolid wood. Teak and Mahogany come to mind first, but I am sure therearemany possibilities..02John Channer, carpenter Rosewood is a wood that was used for center pin type reels beforeplactics. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from flyrod@artistree.com Mon Apr 27 18:49:25 1998 QAA25655 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Terry,God knows, that's a good point (I'm still wrapping this rod silk). I do knowthey have their own computer controlled beveled for rough tapering but I'mguessing that they are hand planing final taper. Maybe that Morgan planerwouldsave time? I heard they are planning on selling 1 tip rods starting around$650(see page 26 of the latest issue of "The Bamboo Fly Rod" if you want toknowwho I'm talking about) I don't really know how they plan on doing it but itgotme thinking just the same (and that got me in trouble). We all sure know how labor intensive this craft is but let's just supposethatsomeone has a background in manufacturing processes. Might come inhandy forstreamlining production. What can be automated? Seems like there aremany laborintensive products out on the market but if the right machines andprocessesare applied.... As for the labor force....well...I hate to say it but I've seensome pretty cheap labor here in California. Maybe a company would evensend itover the border or overseas. I by no means am advocating this but couldsee howa company could rationalize doing so. I have seen a lot of fishing gearmanufactured oversees. As for the popularity of Bamboo...who knows what the next marketplacefad willbe. The 90's have surprised me a bit because it seems like people havebeenlooking for more quality products and willing to pay a little extra for it.Although I think that $2000 might be a tad high for anyone. We are also ontheverge of seeing the baby boomer generation getting ready to retire. Thisworries me some. Are they all going to take up fly fishing? I'm going tohaveto drive out into the middle of Nevada to find some peace! I know that thismight sound a bit selfish but I'd rather fight fish than crowds. Anyway,fromyour past posts it sounds like your business has or is starting to pick upandbased on your web site, I personally agree with most of how you marketyourrods and wish you luck. These are just some thoughts and all disclaimers apply.Best Regards.Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I hope these guys that intend to take on the big guys are not going tohandplane!It might also be worth looking back to a posting last week concerningthewidow of WesJordan having to sell some of his personal rods to cover an operation.There is no money in bamboo rods, there never has been, it is too labourintensive. Companies like T&T and Winston make their money from thegraphiterods they put out and other catalogue goodies.I guess if a guy is used to low pay and long hours then rodmaking wouldbeok, but to someone that is used to a good salary and benefits it is notmuchof dream.Terry from SalarFly@aol.com Mon Apr 27 19:00:45 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon In a message dated 4/27/98 4:30:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,channer@hubwest.com writes: Will you(or your champion)be able to use your own rod? I was looking atthewebsite about casting tournaments and they all said that sponsors rodsmustbe used. I don't mean to dampen the excitement, just curious.Maybeyou'llhave to hold your own tournament. Or Bamboo Flyrod Magazine will have to be one of the sponsors.Darryl from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon Apr 27 19:04:35 1998 Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:04:26 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Sv: Making Reels Rosewood is a wood that was used for center pin type reels beforeplactics. Arh, make that plastics. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Mon Apr 27 19:56:29 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A96A40D00E8; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:57:14 MDT Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon At 07:59 PM 4/27/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 4/27/98 4:30:12 PM Pacific Daylight Time,channer@hubwest.com writes: Will you(or your champion)be able to use your own rod? I was looking atthewebsite about casting tournaments and they all said that sponsors rodsmustbe used. I don't mean to dampen the excitement, just curious.Maybeyou'llhave to hold your own tournament. Or Bamboo Flyrod Magazine will have to be one of the sponsors.Darryl Darryl;Please excuse my ignorance, I responded to your previos post before I readthe new Bamboo Fly Rod magazine. It seems there are tournaments whereyoucan use your own rod. John Channer from aalin@juno.com Mon Apr 27 21:00:10 1998 21:57:04 EDT Subject: Re: Good Book (was Bamboo Cannon) hehe.. I guess the first thing I will do is ask for them for mybirthday.. maybe my daughter will get me one! ;) Thanks russ, I think I will look into it! Jason On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 22:21:34 -0700 "Golden Witch" writes:Jason, I just read through Jack Howell's new tome, "The Lovely Reed." It's agood one and he gears it toward newbies. Russgwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com This is my first response to a posting, and I was wondering what is agood book for a newbie? Jason MartinAalin@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from aalin@juno.com Mon Apr 27 21:00:10 1998 21:57:03 EDT Subject: Re: Jason, get Wayne Cattanach's book. Thanks Rick... I will be sure to do that once I have all the tools made,bought, or atherwise... Jason On Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:15:52 -0500 stpete writes:Jason, I have the Garrison book and Wayne Cattanach's book. I think each hasits merits, but if you only get one (he he he! like that'll happen!),get Cattanach's book. That coupled with some of the FAQ pages and aread of the archives on the Rodmakers Page should provide you with allyou'll need to get started. There are other books out there and some are classics and weregroundbreaking efforts for their time, but Wayne's book is the essenceof modern day bamboo rodmaking. KEEP IT SIMPLE. Mr. Barnes proved thatwith his early efforts and his book is inspirational. It's not thatcomplicated. Pay attention to detail and it'll all work out. Goodluck. Rick _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from saltwein@swbell.net Mon Apr 27 21:16:47 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net VAA04463 Subject: The Lovely Reed Has the Howell book been released yet? Amazon books doesn't have ityet. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from FLYROD777@aol.com Mon Apr 27 23:11:59 1998 Subject: Re: Tungsten Guides Thanks for the address Mark Hallowell from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 28 00:01:48 1998 Tue, 28 Apr 1998 13:01:39 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: fishfest People of the list. For reasons a bit obscure to explain I was lucky enough to spend from the week before Easter to yesterday with breaks every three days to resuply the boat game fishing 40 miles off the coast of Perth (Aust). We caught some marlin and mackerel but what I think is of most interest to the list is a fish I believe is found around the world called Dolphin Fish or Mahi Mahi or Durango. You sight fish for these using fly gear and when the school turns up feeding they're all lit up increadibly intensely azure and change colour as the fight goes on, and the fights go on for a long time. I caught a couple of 15lb plus before my fly line broke on one fish during it's *4th* run and I changed to game gear. The realy good thing about these fish is they fight faster and longer than bone fish making several runs and when they're around you can fish for them for as long as you can face catching them. A couple of years back the Dept of Marine and Fisherys set up FAD's which I think stands for Fish Attracting Devices, they are just old trawling nets moored creating floating structures, they work. Without these you would have to spend all day trolling.Anyhow the point of this post is to let anybody out there in cyberspace interested know about these as one of the fellows on the boat with mewas saying a return ticket to Aust from the US is about $750, currently our dollar is trading at about .65 cents to the US$. We can thank the Asian tiger economies for the exchange rate but it's good for tourists. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@nextdim.com Tue Apr 28 00:39:37 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AA6E6AD01D0; Mon, 27 Apr 1998 22:34:38 PST Subject: Re: fishfest Tony and all, yes the Dorado are great fish, I'm going to Loreto, Baja Surin late July for my second trip and yes I will be with my bamboo rodsagain,a nine wt. and a ten wt.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: fishfest People of the list. For reasons a bit obscure to explain I was luckyenough to spend from the week before Easter to yesterday with breaksevery three days to resuply the boat game fishing 40 miles off the coastof Perth (Aust). We caught some marlin and mackerel but what I think isof most interest to the list is a fish I believe is found around theworld called Dolphin Fish or Mahi Mahi or Durango. You sight fish forthese using fly gear and when the school turns up feeding they're alllit up increadibly intensely azure and change colour as the fightgoes on, and the fights go on for a long time. I caught a couple of 15lbplus before my fly line broke on one fish during it's *4th* run and Ichanged to game gear. The realy good thing about these fish is they fightfaster and longer than bone fish making several runs and when they'rearound you can fish for them for as long as you can face catching them.A couple of years back the Dept of Marine and Fisherys set up FAD's whichI think stands for Fish Attracting Devices, they are just old trawlingnets moored creating floating structures, they work. Without these youwould have to spend all day trolling.Anyhow the point of this post is to let anybody out there in cyberspaceinterested know about these as one of the fellows on the boat with mewassaying a return ticket to Aust from the US is about $750, currently ourdollar is trading at about .65 cents to the US$. We can thank the Asiantiger economies for the exchange rate but it's good for tourists. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 28 02:41:11 1998 Tue, 28 Apr 1998 15:40:55 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: fishfest On Mon, 27 Apr 1998, Dell wrote: Tony and all, yes the Dorado are great fish, I'm going to Loreto, Baja Surin late July for my second trip and yes I will be with my bamboo rodsagain,a nine wt. and a ten wt.Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com flyline to the deep inside of 5 months.That's one Cortland 444 and one Scientific Anglers.Just as an aside, about 50% of the Dolphin Fish caught had at least one fish hook in the mouth or stomach from a previous encounter. Some of the hooks were SS but enough were mild steel and rusted to be able to judge from the good condition of the fish that even if the hooks are swollowed there *appears* to be minimal effect on the fish.Anybody contemplating FF'ing for these should get an anti-reversing reel. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Apr 28 06:24:00 1998 gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net GAA16381 Subject: urac 185 If you have refrigerated the resin, can you use it directly from therefrigerator? Should it be warmed? Does it affect the handlingproperties? Thanks in advance. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from fhar@world.std.com Tue Apr 28 06:35:36 1998 Subject: resources in massachusetts ( or new england or mail order ) Hello, I just subscribed to the rodmakers listserver. I just took a course infly fishing - might buy a rod but after seeing the price it seemskind of practical to try and make one. I'm probably going to wanta salt water version as well as a stream version - that's anotherreason i'd like to learn how to make a rod - then buying the tackleis not nearly as expensive - and I might buy one too but anyways, I'llappreciate hearing what you have to say. I have a 30 foot sailboat ( bristol sloop ) and a 34 foot cruiser, oldwooden pembroke but in nice shape - two working v8's that aren't too bad on gas - i keep them in Newburyport where fishing is very good. Idon't get to use them as much as I would like so I'm thinking of makingthem available to others - the current on the merrimack can be pretty tricky so it's important that anyone trying to use them be familiar,or I can take them out - I haven't chartered before so I'm trying toproceed cautiously - just in case you have any advice about it or knowhow I might post this info - thanks again. Frank from hall@Summa4.COM Tue Apr 28 07:19:22 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0- 49776U700L100S0)with SMTP id AAA14534 for ;Tue, 28 Apr 1998 08:19:20 -0400 199812:19:20 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id IAA12475 for ;Tue, 28 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA17819 for Subject: Re: resources in massachusetts ( or new england or mail order ) Frank,Get the Anglers Workshop catalog. I just received mine (I had to bevery patient!), and it was well worth the wait. Look into a 9 weight forthe north shore briny areas.With regards to the merrimack, as you know this is a formidableriver.I understand why you would have restraint in letting most anyone captiana boat there. Perhaps the Parker would be better for your endeavors(just watch out for the low water. Fly fishing here is best when thereare few boats, which rules out the merrimack most of the time. Good Luck,Dan East Coast (USA) Fly Anglers,The salt water offers some wonderful flyfishing opportunities forbass(and to a lessor extent, bluefish). For schoolies (bass less than 30"),a bamboo taper suitable for (atlantic) salmon would be more thanadequate. These fish are available in droves, in one months time (herein NH anyway). Seek the bays to advoid the winds. Frank E Harrington wrote: Hello, I just subscribed to the rodmakers listserver. I just took a course infly fishing - might buy a rod but after seeing the price it seemskind of practical to try and make one. I'm probably going to wanta salt water version as well as a stream version - that's anotherreason i'd like to learn how to make a rod - then buying the tackleis not nearly as expensive - and I might buy one too but anyways, I'llappreciate hearing what you have to say. I have a 30 foot sailboat ( bristol sloop ) and a 34 foot cruiser, oldwooden pembroke but in nice shape - two working v8's that aren't toobad on gas - i keep them in Newburyport where fishing is very good. Idon't get to use them as much as I would like so I'm thinking of makingthem available to others - the current on the merrimack can be prettytricky so it's important that anyone trying to use them be familiar,or I can take them out - I haven't chartered before so I'm trying toproceed cautiously - just in case you have any advice about it or knowhow I might post this info - thanks again. Frank from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 28 07:23:50 1998 Tue, 28 Apr 1998 20:23:41 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: resources in massachusetts ( or new england or mail order ) On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Frank E Harrington wrote: Hello, I just subscribed to the rodmakers listserver. I just took a course infly fishing - might buy a rod but after seeing the price it seemskind of practical to try and make one. I'm probably going to wanta salt water version as well as a stream version - that's anotherreason i'd like to learn how to make a rod - then buying the tackleis not nearly as expensive - and I might buy one too but anyways, I'llappreciate hearing what you have to say. I have a 30 foot sailboat ( bristol sloop ) and a 34 foot cruiser, oldwooden pembroke but in nice shape - two working v8's that aren't too bad on gas - i keep them in Newburyport where fishing is very good. Idon't get to use them as much as I would like so I'm thinking of makingthem available to others - the current on the merrimack can be pretty tricky so it's important that anyone trying to use them be familiar,or I can take them out - I haven't chartered before so I'm trying toproceed cautiously - just in case you have any advice about it or knowhow I might post this info - thanks again. Frank Hey! A wooden boat owner who fishes fresh and salt wanting to make canerods!Welcome aboard.Wooden boats and cane rods are very simmilar. The boats are a labour of love that gives the owner a lot of pleasure and keeps them floating for someone in the future and the rods are a pleasure to make and fish that someone in the future will treasure. Buy Wayne's book, consider making wooden forms if money is tight (wooden boats and all ;-) ) and jump in with both feet. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue Apr 28 07:36:45 1998 Subject: Re: fishfest Tony Is that $750 Yankee or Aussie? I've got small relatives in the Adelaideareawhom I've never seen, let alone corrupted. Be nice to have a crack at 'em! Davy from MMills1189@aol.com Tue Apr 28 07:36:48 1998 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod Darryl,Was that a mod to Wayne Cattanach's 7042 or 70342 ?Thanks, Mark Mills from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Apr 28 07:46:05 1998 gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net HAA09968 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod MMills1189 wrote: Darryl,Was that a mod to Wayne Cattanach's 7042 or 70342 ?Thanks, Mark Mills Mark, I started the Fishing the rod string. I mentioned Darryl because heexpounded on the qualities of the rod so much I picked it for my firstrod. I built the 7042 to Waynes specifications. I am not saying theycame out that way (VBG). They were close enough,evidently, to make apretty good rod. I would highly recommend the taper. Regards, SteveIndependence, Mo from MMills1189@aol.com Tue Apr 28 07:49:21 1998 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod Steve, Was that rod the two or three piece 7ft 4wt.Thanks, Mark from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Apr 28 08:10:18 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: resources in massachusetts ( or new england or mail o I would go graphite with a 9 weight..you can save a lot of money by buyingthe blank and building it yourself. This is probably a good intro to rod building. In vey general terms what you do to build a rod from a graphite blank isthe very tail end of what it takes to finish a bamboo rod. I've done graphite, Iam slowly inching my may forward on bamboo. It's a whole nother world... If you were to spend $500 on a new graphite rod, you could build one withvery good components for $325 to $350 ($250 for the blank). There are cheaperand more expensive rods of course. Some manufacturers: Winston, Sage,G.Loomis, Scott, Thomas and Thomas...there are many others... Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: resources in massachusetts ( or new england or mail ordeAuthor: at Tcpgate Frank,Get the Anglers Workshop catalog. I just received mine (I had to bevery patient!), and it was well worth the wait. Look into a 9 weight forthe north shore briny areas.With regards to the merrimack, as you know this is a formidableriver.I understand why you would have restraint in letting most anyone captiana boat there. Perhaps the Parker would be better for your endeavors(just watch out for the low water. Fly fishing here is best when thereare few boats, which rules out the merrimack most of the time. Good Luck,Dan East Coast (USA) Fly Anglers,The salt water offers some wonderful flyfishing opportunities forbass(and to a lessor extent, bluefish). For schoolies (bass less than 30"),a bamboo taper suitable for (atlantic) salmon would be more thanadequate. These fish are available in droves, in one months time (herein NH anyway). Seek the bays to advoid the winds. Frank E Harrington wrote: Hello, I just subscribed to the rodmakers listserver. I just took a course infly fishing - might buy a rod but after seeing the price it seemskind of practical to try and make one. I'm probably going to wanta salt water version as well as a stream version - that's anotherreason i'd like to learn how to make a rod - then buying the tackleis not nearly as expensive - and I might buy one too but anyways, I'llappreciate hearing what you have to say. I have a 30 foot sailboat ( bristol sloop ) and a 34 foot cruiser, oldwooden pembroke but in nice shape - two working v8's that aren't toobad on gas - i keep them in Newburyport where fishing is very good. Idon't get to use them as much as I would like so I'm thinking of makingthem available to others - the current on the merrimack can be prettytricky so it's important that anyone trying to use them be familiar,or I can take them out - I haven't chartered before so I'm trying toproceed cautiously - just in case you have any advice about it or knowhow I might post this info - thanks again. Frank from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Apr 28 08:56:08 1998 Subject: Re: resources in massachusetts ( or new england or mail o Frank,At those prices, you could put together a great cane rod with blanks from Bob Corsetti ($325). This would give your an intro to cane.Best regards,Reed andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: I would go graphite with a 9 weight..you can save a lot of money bybuying theblank and building it yourself. This is probably a good intro to rodbuilding.In vey general terms what you do to build a rod from a graphite blank isthevery tail end of what it takes to finish a bamboo rod. I've done graphite, Iamslowly inching my may forward on bamboo. It's a whole nother world... If you were to spend $500 on a new graphite rod, you could build onewith verygood components for $325 to $350 ($250 for the blank). There arecheaper andmore expensive rods of course. Some manufacturers: Winston, Sage,G.Loomis,Scott, Thomas and Thomas...there are many others... Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Tue Apr 28 09:39:46 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: resources in massachusetts ( or new england or mail o $500 is near the top end (though they do go higher still)...as I said there are significantly cheaper graphite ones as well (like half that price new). Nevertheless, I myself might be interested in a good cane blank at $325 (for a two to a six-weight)...I didn't know they existed. Also, does this include the reel seat, cork, guides, etc.? Where can I find out more about them? I have heard not so good things about some other cane blanks that were similar in price...Partridge, I think... On the other hand, while I lift weights I am not sure I would want a 9 weight bamboo rod...also, how are they in handling wind and large clousers/deceivers etc.? Am I mistaken in these concerns? Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: resources in massachusetts ( or new england or mail o Author: at Tcpgate Frank,At those prices, you could put together a great cane rod with blanks from Bob Corsetti ($325). This would give your an intro to cane.Best regards,Reed andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: I would go graphite with a 9 weight..you can save a lot of money bybuying theblank and building it yourself. This is probably a good intro to rodbuilding.In vey general terms what you do to build a rod from a graphite blank isthevery tail end of what it takes to finish a bamboo rod. I've done graphite, I amslowly inching my may forward on bamboo. It's a whole nother world... If you were to spend $500 on a new graphite rod, you could build onewith verygood components for $325 to $350 ($250 for the blank). There arecheaper andmore expensive rods of course. Some manufacturers: Winston, Sage,G.Loomis,Scott, Thomas and Thomas...there are many others... Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator from Canerods@aol.com Tue Apr 28 09:42:55 1998 Subject: Re: fishfest Tony, What did you use for chum? Still no sign of that Titebond II package? Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or canerods@aol.com from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Tue Apr 28 10:27:46 1998 with ESMTP id 281 for ;Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:31:23 -0500 Subject: Shear Stress & Titebond II In gluing up my splices with titebond II for a nodeless rod I havenoticed that the strength of the glue is very good when flexing thestrip from front to back (enamel to pith) but the shear stength (side toside) is quite poor. When you glue the six strips together, howimportant is the shear strength? Is there another glue that is anoption for nodeless constructoin? This is my first attempt at anodeless rod. Thanks! Jim Kubichek from stetzer@csd.uwm.edu Tue Apr 28 10:52:01 1998 KAA31406 batch3.csd.uwm.edu (8.8.4/8.6.8) with ESMTP id KAA31312 for (8.8.4/8.6.8)with SMTP id KAA17204 for ; Tue, 28 Apr1998 Subject: French rod design ala Lespinay & Bremond I was thumbing thru back issues of "The Planing Form" and came acrossan article in issue #32 (Mar/Apr 95) by Josselin de Lespinay which describes some approaches to cane rod building apparently common inFrance. The article was originally in French and the translation leaves a little to be desired. It descibes a splicing system toreplace ferrules, which I think I figured out, but there a two more interesting things I'd like to learn more about. The first is an alternative to Garrison's stress curve analysis: Here in France, our choices have been in accordance with DanielBremond's theory. Bremond belives that rod design should imposeequal stress on the outer fiber of the cane, and this stress shouldbe calculated the entire length of the rod. This is contrary toGarrison... The second is hollow building which seems to make a lot of shorthollows: We also lighten all of our rods. We do this because it has a positive influence on the number of vibrations/minute of the rod...The rods we make are hollowed out to form coves, which vary from1" to 2", depending on the placement of nodes. The fact that the rods are hollowed or not is also considered into the computer taperprogram. I wonder if anyone on the list has a deeper under standing of the rationaleor mechanics behind this design system than I was able to get from these passages? Lespinay has a book, "La Cane A Mouche". He also included three rod tapers in the article. I ran 2 thru myHexrod program, and the stress curves are quite flat and the stressvalues are very low (max around 100,000). Of course I'm not allowing technique. If you use my Hexrod you can retrieve the rods as "lesp1" and "lesp2" and look for yourself.......................................................................Frank Stetzer "...a cheerful comrade is betterstetzer@uwm.edu than a waterproof coat and a Employed by, but not speaking for foot-warmer." Henry Van Dyke,Univ of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, USA "Fisherman's Luck", 1899. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Apr 28 11:08:34 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: Merritt Just got back from the Rodmakers Workshop at Corbett Lake in MerrittB.C. and a great time was had by all. We got a chance to watch TomMorgan's hand mill in action and saw split and sorta straightened stripgo to ready to glue in a matter of minutes. With his mill the only thingelse needed to make a bamboo flyrod is a binder. The anvil on the millhas push/pull screws and you can accurately set your taper and have itcome out +/- .001. The push/pull screws for the anvil are on five inchcenters and the tapers than can be set are unlimited. It uses two 60degree carbide inserts to do the cutting and cuts both sides of thebeginning and final bevel at the same time. He had a but section thatthey had made with the mill using 61 1/2 degree angle and resorcinolglue and no glue lines were visible. Goes from mill to glue up in oneday. Talked to Bob Millward and the mill that he gave the plans to inthe best of the planing form also goes from mill to glue up. With eitherone of these no planing form is required and even anybody totally ineptwith tools can make a rod that accurately matches the taper he/she istrying to make. Tom Smithwick had a spiral rod he had made using a Garrison taper and inmy opinion was the most impressive rod there. Everybody who cast it wasable to easily put out half to all the fly line without any problem invery windy conditions. It took a slow Garrison and speeded it up not bymaking the action faster but by going all the way down to the grip forpower like a parabolic. Andy Royer was there with a bundle of cane from his last shipment andALL the culms in it contained plenty of power fiber. Very nice stuff. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 28 11:28:25 1998 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod In a message dated 4/28/98 5:39:15 AM Pacific Daylight Time,MMills1189@aol.com writes: Darryl,Was that a mod to Wayne Cattanach's 7042 or 70342 ?Thanks, Mark Mills The modification (.002 increase to the 5, 10, and 15 inch station)applies to both the 2 piece and the 3 piece 7ft. 4DT because at those points both rods are identical. It isn't until after the first ferruleon the 3 piece that the taper is different. Darryl from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Tue Apr 28 11:28:56 1998 with ESMTP id 249 for ;Tue, 28 Apr 1998 11:32:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Merritt Do you know if either of the mills you described are for sale? cost? Thanks! Jim Kubichek from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 28 11:30:41 1998 Subject: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs Thanks for all the input guys, and I think I can bePolitically Correct in saying guys, since I have notseen a woman post on this list yet. Thank you to Tom Penrose who pointed out thatsomeone in 1937(!) was casting with a bamboorod distances that equal the graphite rods oftoday. Please keep the dialogue going, for my part I havenot taken anybody's post as a flame, even Terry's. But, I do need suggestions for a taper. I will belooking into Reed's suggestion of the Chris Bogarttaper, and I am waiting for Hank Woolman's taper.What I am looking for is someone who has seena rod cast in the 180 ft range, and can give me aclue as to where I might find the taper. The onlyclues I have right now is it might have been aLeonard Tournament rod in 1937, and Chris Bogart'srod is based on it. Tom Smithwick has suggestedspiraling the tip section to make it stiffer, I thinkthat idea has a lot of merit. Anybody know about the Castle-Connel Kick taperthat was supposed to be amazing in the amountof line it could throw? Darryl from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Apr 28 11:40:50 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Merritt Tom Morgans mill cost $1995 and his email address is rodsmiths@imt.netand he will send you a brochure. Bob Millwards phone number is604-985-0860, I don't know if he sells them but they are pretty easy tomake with a router and some wood and metal. ----------From:jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us[SMTP:jim_kubichek@s- hamilton.k12.ia.us] Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 9:27 AM Subject: Re: Merritt Do you know if either of the mills you described are for sale? cost? Thanks! Jim Kubichek from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue Apr 28 12:11:58 1998 28 Apr 98 13:11:30 -0500 0500 28 Apr 98 13:09:09 -0500 Subject: Re: Merritt does anyone know if there are any plans for this mill machine? Or is thereany way to buy one?-----Original Message----- Subject: Merritt Just got back from the Rodmakers Workshop at Corbett Lake in MerrittB.C. and a great time was had by all. We got a chance to watch TomMorgan's hand mill in action and saw split and sorta straightened stripgo to ready to glue in a matter of minutes. With his mill the only thingelse needed to make a bamboo flyrod is a binder. The anvil on the millhas push/pull screws and you can accurately set your taper and have itcome out +/- .001. The push/pull screws for the anvil are on five inchcenters and the tapers than can be set are unlimited. It uses two 60degree carbide inserts to do the cutting and cuts both sides of thebeginning and final bevel at the same time. He had a but section thatthey had made with the mill using 61 1/2 degree angle and resorcinolglue and no glue lines were visible. Goes from mill to glue up in oneday. Talked to Bob Millward and the mill that he gave the plans to inthe best of the planing form also goes from mill to glue up. With eitherone of these no planing form is required and even anybody totally ineptwith tools can make a rod that accurately matches the taper he/she istrying to make. Tom Smithwick had a spiral rod he had made using a Garrison taper and inmy opinion was the most impressive rod there. Everybody who cast it wasable to easily put out half to all the fly line without any problem invery windy conditions. It took a slow Garrison and speeded it up not bymaking the action faster but by going all the way down to the grip forpower like a parabolic. Andy Royer was there with a bundle of cane from his last shipment andALL the culms in it contained plenty of power fiber. Very nice stuff. from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 28 12:14:02 1998 Subject: Re: Merritt In a message dated 4/28/98 9:46:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time,Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com writes: Bob Millwards phone number is604-985-0860, I don't know if he sells them but they are pretty easy tomake with a router and some wood and metal. There is an article on it in "The Best of The Planing Form".Darryl from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 28 12:22:33 1998 Subject: RE:Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs RO>But, I do need suggestions for a taper. I will beRO>looking into Reed's suggestion of the Chris BogartRO>taper, and I am waiting for Hank Woolman's taper.RO>What I am looking for is someone who has seenRO>a rod cast in the 180 ft range, and can give me aRO>clue as to where I might find the taper. The onlyRO>clues I have right now is it might have been aRO>Leonard Tournament rod in 1937, and Chris Bogart'sRO>rod is based on it. Tom Smithwick has suggestedRO>spiraling the tip section to make it stiffer, I thinkRO>that idea has a lot of merit. Darryl, My 9' Heddon #14 2-3/4F, the one that casts the WF8 line so well, wassold yesterday - so I'm not going to let you guys test cast it as Ipromised last Sat. Sorry, but money talks. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or canerods@aol.com from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue Apr 28 12:38:07 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Merritt it doesn't look like it would be all that difficult to build if one hadthe plans and I dont think the plans are for sale. Tom Morgan will sentyou a very good brochure and that will give you a pretty good idea howit goes together. ----------From: John McKinnon[SMTP:jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca] Sent: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 9:09 AM Subject: Re: Merritt This message uses a character set that is not supported by theInternet Mail Service. To view the original message content, openthe attached message. If the text doesn't display correctly, save theattachment to disk, and then open it using a viewer that can displaythe original character set.> from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Apr 28 12:43:02 1998 (205.236.248.227) Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs I was visiting the FF museum in Vermont a couple of years ago andmanaged totag on the end of a conducted tour of the rodmaking dept. of Orvis acrossthestreet.The Graphite rod building shop was a hive of activity, quite interesting infact.The bamboo shop was empty, the beveller was covered in plastic. Therewas nobamboo to be seen. We were all a week too late, the guide said, they hadfinishedtheir production run. There was a bunsen burner flickering away on Tom'sbenchbuthe was off wandering around somehereI do not believe that Orvis make cane rods anymore, probably have not doneforyears. They may perhaps have a stock of blanks or have them madeelsewhere.I mentioned to the guy in the museum that I did not think that Orvis wasmakingcane rods, and he just smiled.Terry Wayne Catt wrote: Big Money and rodmakers have ALWAYS intertwined Lyle Dickerson - Lyle worked for a brief period for the John WiddicombFurniture - after Lyle went into rod amking John would call to placeorders susposed to be for clients and friends - after John death a safe wasopenedand there were 200 unfished Dickersons. Hl Leonard - Mills owned a controling share for several years - thenJohnsonWax company supported them - it was only after the Wax companydecided thatthey weren't going to underwrite the company that they fell into rearswiththe IRS and eventually were closed T&T - Up until the Irish Tax laws were changed a few years ago thecompanybleed 2 - 3 million a year - now under Lon Decker the image has changed Scott - The Scott Rod Company is owned by William Clay Ford - Mr FordMotorCompany himself - there recent move to Teluride was because thepresident JimFinney(A Gerber Baby Food grandson) wanted to be close to the companyand livein an 'appropiate' setting Powell - Charles S just bailed them out Orvis - I was to by their former marketing person that the bamboo deptwaskept for the "Image" from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue Apr 28 12:58:19 1998 28 Apr 98 13:57:47 -0500 0500 28 Apr 98 13:57:28 -0500 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Which town was the FF. Museum in. I am going there soon and it would be anice side trip.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs I was visiting the FF museum in Vermont a couple of years ago andmanaged totag on the end of a conducted tour of the rodmaking dept. of Orvis acrossthestreet.The Graphite rod building shop was a hive of activity, quite interesting infact.The bamboo shop was empty, the beveller was covered in plastic. Therewasnobamboo to be seen. We were all a week too late, the guide said, they hadfinishedtheir production run. There was a bunsen burner flickering away on Tom'sbench buthe was off wandering around somehereI do not believe that Orvis make cane rods anymore, probably have notdoneforyears. They may perhaps have a stock of blanks or have them madeelsewhere.I mentioned to the guy in the museum that I did not think that Orvis wasmakingcane rods, and he just smiled.Terry Wayne Catt wrote: Big Money and rodmakers have ALWAYS intertwined Lyle Dickerson - Lyle worked for a brief period for the John WiddicombFurniture - after Lyle went into rod amking John would call to placeorders susposed to be for clients and friends - after John death a safe wasopenedand there were 200 unfished Dickersons. Hl Leonard - Mills owned a controling share for several years - thenJohnsonWax company supported them - it was only after the Wax companydecidedthatthey weren't going to underwrite the company that they fell into rearswiththe IRS and eventually were closed T&T - Up until the Irish Tax laws were changed a few years ago thecompanybleed 2 - 3 million a year - now under Lon Decker the image has changed Scott - The Scott Rod Company is owned by William Clay Ford - Mr FordMotorCompany himself - there recent move to Teluride was because thepresidentJimFinney(A Gerber Baby Food grandson) wanted to be close to the companyandlivein an 'appropiate' setting Powell - Charles S just bailed them out Orvis - I was to by their former marketing person that the bamboo deptwaskept for the "Image" from rmoon@ida.net Tue Apr 28 13:01:01 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs Darrell I have made a couple of Castle Connell Kick taper rods. actually boththe same tapen. It is a delightful rod to use, but a power house itisn't. In the hands of a capable caster it will probably get out to 90'but I have never been able to do it myself. It really was designed forladies and youth who might find a heavier rod tiring. It does not takemuch effort to make moderate casts. It is my wife's favorite rod. Ralph from hexagon@odyssee.net Tue Apr 28 13:03:20 1998 (205.236.248.227) Subject: Re: Shear Stress & Titebond II I certainly would not use Titebond when there are adhesives on the marketwith a long proven track record in the lamination of cane rods going backover 50 years. Titebond may be ok if you are not intending the rods forsaleand you may not perhaps mind having a nodeless bamboo rod turn into windchimes in your hand!I remember a year or so ago, Tony down there in Wallaby Creek was a realTitebond fan and was always recommending it.He now uses Urac 185.You have to be very careful about the information highway, and this goesforany of these rec. type lists, you cannot take all you read as good advice.Terry jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: In gluing up my splices with titebond II for a nodeless rod I havenoticed that the strength of the glue is very good when flexing thestrip from front to back (enamel to pith) but the shear stength (side toside) is quite poor. When you glue the six strips together, howimportant is the shear strength? Is there another glue that is anoption for nodeless constructoin? This is my first attempt at anodeless rod. Thanks! Jim Kubichek from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 28 13:23:17 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs In a message dated 4/28/98 11:03:32 AM Pacific Daylight Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: I have made a couple of Castle Connell Kick taper rods. actually boththe same tapen. It is a delightful rod to use, but a power house itisn't. In the hands of a capable caster it will probably get out to 90'but I have never been able to do it myself. It really was designed forladies and youth who might find a heavier rod tiring. It does not takemuch effort to make moderate casts. It is my wife's favorite rod. Thanks for the reply. I guess the quest continues...Darryl from TSmithwick@aol.com Tue Apr 28 13:32:14 1998 Subject: Re: French rod design ala Lespinay & Bremond In a message dated 4/28/98 3:55:57 PM, you wrote: Frank - I don't know about a better understanding, but I read the book andbuilt one of the rods. The spliced ferrule is a proven idea, and as hesuggests, makes the rod cast as though it is longer. The hollow buildingmethod is the scalloped semi-hollow method, similar to that of Powell. As to the taper, I built the "Alosa" from the article. It is a powerfulcaster, but has a stiff feel, as you might well expect. I brought it toMerritLake, and a few people loved it, others did not. It definitely is not foreveryone. I borrowed the book from Ron Barch, and in return, promised himanarticle, which is now in his posession and will be in an upcoming PlaningForm. from tom@cet-inc.com Tue Apr 28 13:39:49 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs John,The Museum is on Historic Route 7A in Manchester, VT. Phone 802-362- 3300 notfar from Orvis. They have a web site also but I don't know the address. Ifyou don't mind stopping in the Orvis retail store on your way to themuseum,I think you can get coupons for $1 off admission to the museum. On April 18th, I was in town and attended a session advertised in a localnews guide entitled "The Art of Casting The Cane Rod" on the Orvis pondfeaturing rods from the Museum. They had a 10' Leonard, an early Cross rodand two Wes Jordan rods that belonged to Dick Finlay who was doing thedemo.The one Wes Jordan rod was not a production rod but a shortened versionofthe nymph. It was a very nice rod, I wish I could have gotten the taper.Dick is/was a Board member emeritis of the museum. When he found outthat Ibuilt rods, he showed a great deal of respect. As he pointed out, very fewrods from Orvis were actually built by one person. He and anotherinstructorasked if I had any rods along. (Like I would go anywhere without at leastone) I just happened to have two along that they casted and were verycomplimentary of. Tom Whittle---------- Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Which town was the FF. Museum in. I am going there soon and it would be anice side trip. from thoman3@ibm.net Tue Apr 28 14:02:13 1998 151.ga.us.ibm.net ; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 19:02:04 GMT [166.72.76.151] didn't use HELO protocol Subject: Re: Merritt Coffey, Patrick W wrote: Just got back from the Rodmakers Workshop at Corbett Lake in MerrittB.C. and a great time was had by all. We got a chance to watch TomMorgan's hand mill in action and saw split and sorta straightened stripgo to ready to glue in a matter of minutes. With his mill the only thingelse needed to make a bamboo flyrod is a binder. The anvil on the millhas push/pull screws and you can accurately set your taper and have itcome out +/- .001. The push/pull screws for the anvil are on five inchcenters and the tapers than can be set are unlimited. It uses two 60degree carbide inserts to do the cutting and cuts both sides of thebeginning and final bevel at the same time. He had a but section thatthey had made with the mill using 61 1/2 degree angle and resorcinolglue and no glue lines were visible. Goes from mill to glue up in oneday. Talked to Bob Millward and the mill that he gave the plans to inthe best of the planing form also goes from mill to glue up. With eitherone of these no planing form is required and even anybody totally ineptwith tools can make a rod that accurately matches the taper he/she istrying to make. Tom Smithwick had a spiral rod he had made using a Garrison taper andinmy opinion was the most impressive rod there. Everybody who cast itwasable to easily put out half to all the fly line without any problem invery windy conditions. It took a slow Garrison and speeded it up not bymaking the action faster but by going all the way down to the grip forpower like a parabolic. Andy Royer was there with a bundle of cane from his last shipment andALL the culms in it contained plenty of power fiber. Very nice stuff. from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 28 14:59:27 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs RO>John,RO>The Museum is on Historic Route 7A in Manchester, VT. Phone 802-362-3300 notRO>far from Orvis. They have a web site also but I don't know the address.IfRO>you don't mind stopping in the Orvis retail store on your way to themuseum,RO>I think you can get coupons for $1 off admission to the museum. There's a link on Dick Spurr's Classic Angler for the museum's url. from thramer@presys.com Tue Apr 28 16:02:54 1998 Subject: Tournament Casting Not to burst any bubbles but DISTANCE casting is best left to thematerial that suits it best, graphite. For the purpose of competitionyou are unlikely to find anyone with a high degree of skill to handicapthemself by using bamboo. The design criteria of a tournament taper iseasily achieved. The stiffest rod of the lightest weight, smallest crosssection that you can achieve. No mention of the ability to fight fishprotect tippets or lay a fly down with delicacy. You are also nowbutting heads with alot of money. Remember that the cost ofproduction(largely done with unskilled to semi skilled labor) ofgraphite would lead you to believe that they should retail for no morethan 200 at the high end. This leaves an considerable portion of therevenues to dedicate to 'image building'. Some one has to pay for thebig name celebs and that person is the fool who buys into the hype andpurchase one of the grossly overpriced rods. Fiberglass for $300?PUHHHLEASE!In bamboo it would be foolish to compete with plastic at what it doesthe best. There used to be another type of tournament casting whichinvolved line handling and accuracy which seems to better suit thestrenghts of cane. The best I have heard it put was that graphite is made for casting butbamboo is made to catch fish.Perhaps a bamboo division will fill the bill.A.J.Thramer from channer@hubwest.com Tue Apr 28 17:09:35 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A3E81780102; Tue, 28 Apr 1998 16:10:48 MDT Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs At 12:25 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: Thanks for all the input guys, and I think I can bePolitically Correct in saying guys, since I have notseen a woman post on this list yet. Thank you to Tom Penrose who pointed out thatsomeone in 1937(!) was casting with a bamboorod distances that equal the graphite rods oftoday. Please keep the dialogue going, for my part I havenot taken anybody's post as a flame, even Terry's. But, I do need suggestions for a taper. I will belooking into Reed's suggestion of the Chris Bogarttaper, and I am waiting for Hank Woolman's taper.What I am looking for is someone who has seena rod cast in the 180 ft range, and can give me aclue as to where I might find the taper. The onlyclues I have right now is it might have been aLeonard Tournament rod in 1937, and Chris Bogart'srod is based on it. Tom Smithwick has suggestedspiraling the tip section to make it stiffer, I thinkthat idea has a lot of merit. Anybody know about the Castle-Connel Kick taperthat was supposed to be amazing in the amountof line it could throw? Darryl Darryl;I seem to remember seeing tapers for a couple of tournament rods in theback of Claude Kreider's book. Now if I can only find the book, I bought itbefore I moved and it hasn't surfaced in 3 years. If you don't have it ,let me know and I'll send out a search party. I think the rod was a Winstonand the taper was given in 6" increments and of course no given lineweight. John Channer from cbogart@shentel.net Tue Apr 28 18:23:56 1998 199819:23:51 -0400 Subject: Re: Shear Stress & Titebond II JimIf you had read my original posts on glues - it is the lateral orpressure as you say shear strength that will break the joint. Also foundthat some highly recommended glues perform very poorly compared totitebond in this test. So try a number of the glues you have available and pick one that youfeel confortable with after giving them all the same sheer test. I think youwill besurprised by the results. Chris On Tue, 28 Apr 1998 10:26:45 -0500, jim_kubichek@s- hamilton.k12.ia.uswrote: In gluing up my splices with titebond II for a nodeless rod I havenoticed that the strength of the glue is very good when flexing thestrip from front to back (enamel to pith) but the shear stength (side toside) is quite poor. When you glue the six strips together, howimportant is the shear strength? Is there another glue that is anoption for nodeless constructoin? This is my first attempt at anodeless rod. Thanks! Jim Kubichek from anglport@con2.com Tue Apr 28 18:37:10 1998 Subject: Re: Lack of mail Anyone,My server went down for the weekend and I've received no mail sinceFriday.When I tried today, I got mail, just none from the list. Since those twoevents seemed to coincide, I thought that resubscribing was the way to go.On trying that, I was notified that mine was an invalid request. Does thatmean that I am STILL on the list (if so, why no mail in two days)? should Itry to unsubscribe and THEN resubscribe? I guess this is rather futilesinceI have no way of knowing if I'll get your response. I guess I'll use thismessage as a test, eh? Getting smarter all the time,Art from Grhghlndr@aol.com Tue Apr 28 18:39:08 1998 Subject: Re: The Lovely Reed Steve,Call Anglers Art at 800-848-1020 or0102 i can't remember. I got mineabouttwo weeks ago.Bret from saltwein@swbell.net Tue Apr 28 19:06:08 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net TAA05236 Subject: Re: Fishing the rod MMills1189 wrote: Steve,Was that rod the two or three piece 7ft 4wt.Thanks, Mark It was the two piece. Regards, Steve from rclarke@eou.edu Tue Apr 28 20:16:33 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting from Tournament Fly and Baitcasting by Earl Osten, 1946 Measurements for a "highly recommended tournament trout fly rod,9 ftweightis 8 oz, 2 piece, in 6 inch intervals": ---------- tip.120.180.220.240.262.268.270.280.304.329 butt.329.363.400.402.425.457.504.512.512 Someone might want to feed this into hexrod to see what the stress curveis. It is in 6 inch intervals, there may be a way to convert it to 5 inchintervals. There are also other tapers for two handed rods. Any takers? comments? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu From: A.J.Thramer Subject: Tournament CastingDate: Tuesday, April 28, 1998 2:07 PM Not to burst any bubbles but DISTANCE casting is best left to thematerial that suits it best, graphite. For the purpose of competitionyou are unlikely to find anyone with a high degree of skill to handicapthemself by using bamboo. The design criteria of a tournament taper iseasily achieved. The stiffest rod of the lightest weight, smallest crosssection that you can achieve. No mention of the ability to fight fishprotect tippets or lay a fly down with delicacy. You are also nowbutting heads with alot of money. Remember that the cost ofproduction(largely done with unskilled to semi skilled labor) ofgraphite would lead you to believe that they should retail for no morethan 200 at the high end. This leaves an considerable portion of therevenues to dedicate to 'image building'. Some one has to pay for thebig name celebs and that person is the fool who buys into the hype andpurchase one of the grossly overpriced rods. Fiberglass for $300?PUHHHLEASE!In bamboo it would be foolish to compete with plastic at what it doesthe best. There used to be another type of tournament casting whichinvolved line handling and accuracy which seems to better suit thestrenghts of cane. The best I have heard it put was that graphite is made for casting butbamboo is made to catch fish.Perhaps a bamboo division will fill the bill.A.J.Thramer from rcurry@top.monad.net Tue Apr 28 20:31:59 1998 Subject: Re: resources in massachusetts ( or new england or mail o andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote:Nevertheless, I myself might be interested in a good caneblank at $325 (for a two to a six-weight)...I didn't know theyexisted. Also, does this include the reel seat, cork, guides, etc.?Where can I find out more about them? Andy and Frank,Bob Corsetti may be found in Nashua, N.H.. He is one of the mostrespected dealers in cane; very pleasant to do business with, andexcellent prices. Phone : (603)886-0411 Fax: (603)595-2458 Best regards,Reed from emiller257@dataflo.net Tue Apr 28 20:47:06 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id VAA14256 for Subject: Re: [Fwd: resigning from list] Mike Biondo wrote: I'll take care of Jer', thanks... Mike- ps: will we be seeing you in Grayrock this year???Mike, I cant say .Might bestarting new job soon. I will definitely try to get some time for Grayrock, but the gods have to intervene. Thanks for asking......Ed Miller from FISHWOOL@aol.com Tue Apr 28 21:33:18 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Lack of mail I got your message on the list . Did you receive this ?Hank. from tbeckfam@pacbell.net Tue Apr 28 21:37:56 1998 mail-gw6.pacbell.net (8.8.8/8.7.1+antispam) with SMTP id TAA16275 for Subject: Re: Penetrol? Grhghlndr wrote: Don,Penetrol is not really supposed to thin the material it is supposed toenhancethe open time and help penetration.bret Penetrol will will cause runs and affect the consistancy of paint andvarnish if you use TOO MUCH. But, it will improve application andspreading properties alot if you use the right amount in your finish. Traver Becker from SalarFly@aol.com Tue Apr 28 22:00:37 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon In a message dated 4/26/98 2:58:12 AM Pacific Daylight Time,cmj@post11.tele.dk writes: Even if such a cannon is built, You still face the biggest problem: Who is going to use it? All the big time stars are, as I think we agreed on acouple of months ago, on the payrole of one of the big companies. There are still a few excellent casters out there. One guy we have inmind was at the fly fishing exposition where they had the castingcontest I wrote about previously. This contest was supposedly open to anyone. This guy steps up and casts well over 100 ft. The announcergoes over to him and takes the rod away and hands it to the next guyin line. Each contestant was supposed to get three casts. His firstcast wasn't even measured. I don't think this contest was fixed, notreally, but the sponsor wouldn't have gotten as much bang for his buckunless a "name" won it. Darryl from flyfisher@cmix.com Tue Apr 28 22:47:37 1998 Subject: Re:RE: Penetrol? RO>Grhghlndr wrote:RO>>RO>> Don,RO>> Penetrol is not really supposed to thin the material it is supposed toenhRO>> the open time and help penetration.RO>> bret RO> Penetrol will will cause runs and affect the consistancy of paint andRO>varnish if you use TOO MUCH. But, it will improve application andRO>spreading properties alot if you use the right amount in your finish.RO>Traver Becker Thanks to all that responded. Sounds like something else to master - nottoo much, but some is a good thing. Don BurnsFlyfisher@cmix.com or Canerods@aol.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 28 22:49:32 1998 Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:49:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: fishfest On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Ragnarig wrote: Tony Is that $750 Yankee or Aussie? I've got small relatives in the Adelaideareawhom I've never seen, let alone corrupted. Be nice to have a crack at 'em! Davy $US 750, apparently for some reason the cost has fallen to mid 1980 prices. Possibly it's some deal to do with the Sydney olympics? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from cmax@jymis.com Tue Apr 28 23:04:10 1998 Subject: Chris Maxfield unsubscribe Sorry, havn't been able to keep up with the list. Please remove my nameandemail from the list. If this isn't the correct protocol please let me know.Once again, many thanks to all the contributing members. Chris Maxfield from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 28 23:08:28 1998 Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:08:18 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Shear Stress & Titebond II On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: I certainly would not use Titebond when there are adhesives on themarketwith a long proven track record in the lamination of cane rods going backover 50 years. Titebond may be ok if you are not intending the rods forsaleand you may not perhaps mind having a nodeless bamboo rod turn intowindchimes in your hand!I remember a year or so ago, Tony down there in Wallaby Creek was arealTitebond fan and was always recommending it.He now uses Urac 185.You have to be very careful about the information highway, and this goesforany of these rec. type lists, you cannot take all you read as good advice.Terry Hang on a sec Terry, I've never even *seen* a bottle of Titebond II. All I've ever used has been UF, Resorcinol and lately Shell Epon. I *tried* some yellow glue once and made a posting on the list warning of the disaster awaiting anybody doing this, but I certainly NEVER recomended it. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 28 23:16:41 1998 Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:16:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Lack of mail On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: I got your message on the list . Did you receive this ?Hank. Yep. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue Apr 28 23:35:26 1998 Wed, 29 Apr 1998 12:35:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: fishfest Don, What did you use for chum? There were 6 of us, including my 13 yo son and we all contributed to the chuming, skiper too. The first day out is always bad but conditions were very confused and we were bobbing about like a cork while drifting over the FAD's. Far too rough to even consider using a fly rod on day one as you had to hang on to something all the time. Magnificent situation though as there were dolphins jumping through waves right at the boat while we were catching fish and Dolphin Fish (think I'll start calling them Mahi Mahi from here on) jump about 6-7 feet out of the water while fighting them made for realy spectacular visuals. The weather got better on the last two days and everybody started taking photos but all we got these two days were Mahi Mahi but that's not too bad.This was the last trip for the season and was prob the best. I took a Texas General with me realy just because it was kind of expected of me. I thought it wouldn't be as good as my graphite rod and wasn't as far as fighting was concerned but it was better to cast in the conditions because it was so much more forgiving casting on a moving platform. It got twisted into knots though but didn't break. Still no sign of that Titebond II package?No, not yet but it'll turn up. I noticed Terry pointed an accusing finger at me for having recomended it's use in the past. It could be he wascorrect but just not yet, if you know what I mean ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from cphisey@neca.com Wed Apr 29 00:22:23 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs At 07:29 AM 3/11/98, you wrote:At 12:25 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: Thanks for all the input guys, and I think I can be>>Politically Correct insaying guys, since I have notseen a woman post on this list yet. Thank you to Tom Penrose who pointed out thatsomeone in 1937(!) was casting with a bamboorod distances that equal the graphite rods oftoday. Please keep the dialogue going, for my part I havenot taken anybody's post as a flame, even Terry's. But, I do need suggestions for a taper. (snip) Darryl Darryl;I seem to remember seeing tapers for a couple of tournament rods in theback of Claude Kreider's book. Now if I can only find the book, I bought itbefore I moved and it hasn't surfaced in 3 years. If you don't have it ,let me know and I'll send out a search party. I think the rod was a Winstonand the taper was given in 6" increments and of course no given lineweight. John Channer from Claude Kreider's book ;NO 7 A dry fly rod built by the author, withwhich James Corbell won the 1947 National Accuracy Dry FlyChampionship.End 6" 12" 18" 24" 30" 36" 42" 48" 54" 57" FerruleButt .390 .390 .370 .360 .345 .325 .305 .290 .280 .270 .265 .265Tip .260 .245 .220 .195 .180 .160 .135 .125 .110 .090 .080Darryl,I have a copy of Earl Osten book "Tournament Fly & Bait Casting"thatI would lend you if you think it would be helpful in your Quest.(also haveKreider's book)You can reach me @ cphisey@neca.com or reply to list.Charlie Hisey from rhicks@d.umn.edu Wed Apr 29 02:53:36 1998 Subject: Blackening Snake Guides I have ground the feet of some black Hopkins & Holloway stainless steelsnake guides. I am having trouble finding a way to reblacken the groundareas. Does anyone have a good method that will blacken these areas andnot bleed under silk wraps when they are varnished with spar varnish? Thanks for any help. _____________________________________________________________________ Randall E. Hicksrhicks@d.umn.edu from Finanplanr@aol.com Wed Apr 29 03:02:37 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Re: Renny Greenmun's comments about bamboo vs graphite...It's awfullyhard toargue such beautifully placed sentiments. Renny, I do believe I must agreewith everything you said. When you come right down to it, it doesn'treallymatter which material casts further. For me, and I suspect for you, itbecomes a matter of aesthetics and beauty and grace... Stu Kirkfield from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 29 08:35:10 1998 Subject: Re: fishfest RO>On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Ragnarig wrote: RO>> TonyRO>>RO>> Is that $750 Yankee or Aussie? I've got small relatives in theAdelaide aRO>> whom I've never seen, let alone corrupted. Be nice to have a crack at'emRO>>RO>> DavyRO>> RO>$US 750, apparently for some reason the cost has fallen to mid 1980RO>prices. Possibly it's some deal to do with the Sydney olympics? RO>Tony Tony, Airline prices are all over the place - we just booked tickets toEngland for mid to late June. Cost ~$1,150 each for a roundtrip coachticket on United Airlines. If I was willing to fly other airlines -prices were $1,050 - $4,400. If I booked for a trip with a return to the USA by the 24th of June thenthe prices started at ~$450 even on United! It seems that the 24th is the end of "off season" drop-dead date. So itdepends so much upon "in season" or "off season", day of the week, phaseof the moon etc. and of course the airline. My wife's conference runsuntil after the 24th and we couldn't shift to save the money. #$$#%$#%$% But it you are planning a fishing trip, a shift to different days of theweek, or departure and return dates, can save you $100's ($1,000's?) ofdollars. There's a couple of very good on-line airline ticket sites if anyone isinterested. We got much better information than through the company std.travel agent. (not working very hard) This seems to be true of mosttravel agents, IMHO. United's site search works okay, but after the search is completed andyou "accept" a flight plan and go to next page - "The pay for the ticketpage", it comes back with even more flights options at even cheaperrates sometimes. Flights it couldn't find until you accepted certainstopover cities, I guess. United's site isn't just for United flights and many of the itinerariesare for other airlines if you search for "best price". It's neat to beable to pick your seats from a display of the airplane and the remainingempty seats - all done with graphics. Want a middle seat right next tothe overflowing head - no problem. Click, you've got it. We pickedthe seats next to the crying kid with loaded diapers. The anti-Christ (MS's - Bill Gates) has a site (his fingers are intoeverything, aren't they?), BUT we got a higher price quote from his sitethan I did from United's own site and for the exact same flights! So I'dstay away from it, IMHO. Wee Willie's site is "cooler" and offers bettersearch routines -- but I think he's making a few extra bucks off eachbooking. He's got a big mortgage on that new house, I guess - what withsales of being Win98/99/2000 delayed until he buys off more politicians! IMHO, Don Burns from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 29 08:40:42 1998 Subject: Re: fishfest RO>Don, RO>> What did you use for chum? RO>There were 6 of us, including my 13 yo son and we all contributed totheRO>chuming, skiper too. The first day out is always bad but conditionswereRO>very confused and we were bobbing about like a cork while driftingoverRO>the FAD's. Far too rough to even consider using a fly rod on day one asRO>you had to hang on to something all the time. Magnificent situationRO>though as there were dolphins jumping through waves right at the boatRO>while we were catching fish and Dolphin Fish (think I'll start callingRO>them Mahi Mahi from here on) jump about 6-7 feet out of the waterwhileRO>fighting them made for realy spectacular visuals. The weather gotbetterRO>on the last two days and everybody started taking photos but all wegotRO>these two days were Mahi Mahi but that's not too bad.RO>This was the last trip for the season and was prob the best. RO>I took a Texas General with me realy just because it was kind ofexpectedRO>of me. I thought it wouldn't be as good as my graphite rod and wasn't asRO>far as fighting was concerned but it was better to cast in theconditionsRO>because it was so much more forgiving casting on a moving platform.ItRO>got twisted into knots though but didn't break. RO>>RO>> Still no sign of that Titebond II package?RO>No, not yet but it'll turn up. I noticed Terry pointed an accusing fingerRO>at me for having recomended it's use in the past. It could be he wascorrectRO>but just not yet, if you know what I mean ;-) RO>Tony Tony, I guess they weren't kidding aout 6 - 8 weeks when I went to the P.O.,but what the heck - I just sent a rod to NYC from LA and that took 8 or9 days with Priority Mail. Talk about false advertising, "2 to 3 days from the Post Office", mybutt. (USA TV ad by the U.S. Post Office) I should have stuck with UPS. Don from rmoon@ida.net Wed Apr 29 08:48:22 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs Darnel, This past weekend at the Eastern Idaho Fly Tying Expo, I had a chance tosee what may be your real cannon. It was a Winston rod, 2/1 15' long.It was a special order made for Myron Gregory a famous tournamentcaster. It was a very heavy two handed salmon rod and although I didnot take any dimensions, I would say that the butt just ahead of thecork had to be at least an inch in diameter. The tip at the tip toplooked to be somewhere about .300". The rod now belongs to the FFF andis on display at the International Fly Fishing Center in Livingston. Ifyou ar any one else wants to see it tell Bob Wiltshire the director"Ralph sent You." If any of you will be at the FFFConclave in IdahoFalls, I will have the rod there for exhibition, along with a superbStimson and Lambuth Spiral. Ralph from rmoon@ida.net Wed Apr 29 08:56:28 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon boundary="------------ABA068520D89AA7B1A1CA38C" --------------ABA068520D89AA7B1A1CA38C I am curious as to what the current light rod casting records are now.Anyone know. I was browsing last night and found some references to130' casts before 1923 with rods in the 4-5 oz range. That is prettygood and I really wonder if it may not be comparable. to currentdistances. With specialized equipment anything seems possible. I sawSteve Rajeff cast over 300" once. But I question as A.J. does why weshould be concerned. Distance is in my opinion one of the leastimportant parts of fly fishing. It is strictly an ego trip experienceand serves no earthly purpose. Maybe this is sour grapes since I can'tcast very far. It seems to me that a fly rod must have sufficientstrength to cast a rated distance effectively, but why overbuild forthat effect? --------------ABA068520D89AA7B1A1CA38C I am curious as to what the current light rod casting records are pretty good and I really wonder if it may not be comparable. to current Distance me that a fly rod must have sufficient strength to cast a rated distanceeffectively, but why overbuild for that effect? --------------ABA068520D89AA7B1A1CA38C-- from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Wed Apr 29 09:22:10 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: fishfest I didn't really follow this particular thread so I am not sure where this fishing was done (Hawaii?), but for those of you closer to the east coast there is actually a rather large Mahi Mahi population in the Gulf Stream there. I went off North Carolina last year for tuna and packed a flyrod for Mahi Mahi but it was too rough. My friends said that the year before they caught over 60 (along with tuna) while chumming and that they were incredible fighters....the cool thing about North Carolina vs. further up north is that the gulf stream is very close to shore so the boat ride to get there is shorter (though I still chummed the whole time). The fish (tuna as well) can be caught less than 15 feet from the boat! I just wish I didn't get seasick so easily... Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: fishfest Author: at Tcpgate Don, What did you use for chum? There were 6 of us, including my 13 yo son and we all contributed to the chuming, skiper too. The first day out is always bad but conditions were very confused and we were bobbing about like a cork while drifting over the FAD's. Far too rough to even consider using a fly rod on day one as you had to hang on to something all the time. Magnificent situation though as there were dolphins jumping through waves right at the boat while we were catching fish and Dolphin Fish (think I'll start calling them Mahi Mahi from here on) jump about 6-7 feet out of the water while fighting them made for realy spectacular visuals. The weather got better on the last two days and everybody started taking photos but all we got these two days were Mahi Mahi but that's not too bad.This was the last trip for the season and was prob the best. I took a Texas General with me realy just because it was kind of expected of me. I thought it wouldn't be as good as my graphite rod and wasn't as far as fighting was concerned but it was better to cast in the conditions because it was so much more forgiving casting on a moving platform. It got twisted into knots though but didn't break. Still no sign of that Titebond II package?No, not yet but it'll turn up. I noticed Terry pointed an accusing finger at me for having recomended it's use in the past. It could be he wascorrect but just not yet, if you know what I mean ;-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from kgabd@clsp.uswest.net Wed Apr 29 09:23:00 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Finanplanr wrote: Re: Renny Greenmun's comments about bamboo vs graphite...It's awfullyhard toargue such beautifully placed sentiments. Renny, I do believe I mustagreewith everything you said. When you come right down to it, it doesn'treallymatter which material casts further. For me, and I suspect for you, itbecomes a matter of aesthetics and beauty and grace... Stu KirkfieldStu, how do I get a copy of your book? Kevin. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Apr 29 09:41:05 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 29Apr 1998 10:42:35 -0400 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides Use a permanent black sharpe pen. Let it dry. I use it with Poly Varnish so try it on a scrap dowel or something. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from rmoon@ida.net Wed Apr 29 09:50:04 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon I just reread my posting. Even I can cast 300". Would boou believethat it was 300'. Sorry about that!Ralph from longroge@isu.edu Wed Apr 29 10:16:31 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting Robert, I would be very interested in any two-handed tapers that you have. Ithink bamboo would be wonderful for spey and other two-handed castingtechniques. Thanks,Roger Long Robert Clarke wrote: from Tournament Fly and Baitcasting by Earl Osten, 1946 Measurements for a "highly recommended tournament trout fly rod,9 ftweightis 8 oz, 2 piece,in 6 inch intervals": ---------- tip.120.180.220.240.262.268.270.280.304.329 butt.329.363.400.402.425.457.504.512.512 Someone might want to feed this into hexrod to see what the stresscurveis. It is in 6 inch intervals, there may be a way to convert it to 5 inchintervals. There are also other tapers for two handed rods. Any takers? comments? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Wed Apr 29 10:19:55 1998 with ESMTP id 305 for ;Wed, 29 Apr 1998 10:23:30 -0500 Subject: Re: fishfest Don, If you have time, would you be willling to post the URLs of the sites youcheckforairline info? Thanks Jim Kubichek from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 29 10:55:38 1998 Subject: Re: fishfest- ticket url's RO>Don, RO>If you have time, would you be willling to post the URLs of the sitesyou chRO>airline info? Thanks RO>Jim Kubichek Jim, Here's the one's I've looked at: United Airlines: https://www.ual.com/secure/ Cheap tickets: http://www.cheaptickets.com/ MicroSoft's Expedia: http://expedia.msn.com/daily/home/default.hts There's lot more - So do a search! Try my ISP's search page: http://www.cmix.com/links/searchers.html-ssi Enter: "tickets airline" I got lots and lots of hits. Don Burns from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 29 11:55:11 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon The subject of why should we care if bamboo can cast as far as or farther than graphite has come up a few times. A legitimate question. a matter of promotion. He needs to get as many people ashe can to pick up his magazine and look through it. If you werea graphite only flyfisherman and you saw "Bamboo for Distance"on the cover, wouldn't your interest be piqued? rely heavily on stress curves generated by a PC, and hopefully I'm going to be able to answer one of my questions about rod tapers - "What properties of a taper contribute to distance?" Darryl from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 29 11:55:16 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs In a message dated 4/28/98 10:23:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,cphisey@neca.comwrites: Darryl,I have a copy of Earl Osten book "Tournament Fly & Bait Casting"thatI would lend you if you think it would be helpful in your Quest.(also haveKreider's book)You can reach me @ cphisey@neca.com or reply to list.Charlie Hisey Thanks for the tip, let me check with Metcalf to see if he has thatbook. He seems to have every book in the world on bamboo rods in his office. Darryl from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Apr 29 12:04:59 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs I have had a request to post a spey taper from this book, and can postothers if needed. Hopefully not violating any copywright laws. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: SalarFly Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo EntrepreneursDate: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 9:54 AM In a message dated 4/28/98 10:23:07 PM Pacific Daylight Time,cphisey@neca.comwrites: Darryl,I have a copy of Earl Osten book "Tournament Fly & Bait Casting"thatI would lend you if you think it would be helpful in your Quest.(alsohaveKreider's book)You can reach me @ cphisey@neca.com or reply to list.Charlie Hisey Thanks for the tip, let me check with Metcalf to see if he has thatbook. He seems to have every book in the world on bamboo rods in his office. Darryl from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Wed Apr 29 12:15:34 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Wed, 29Apr 1998 13:17:18 -0400 Subject: Bill Ballen Could someone please confirm Bill Ballen's Phone # for me? Thanks in advance. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jcole10@juno.com Wed Apr 29 12:50:25 1998 13:49:28 EDT Subject: Bob Millward's Planing Mill Rodmakers List, I am trying to locate a copy of the plans to Bob Millward's planing mill.My copies of THE PLANING FORM do not go back that issue. I have tried toreach Bob by phone with no response. Thanks John Cole 708 Hardwicke DriveKnoxville, TN 37923 E-Mail jcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Wed Apr 29 12:56:49 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bob Millward's Planing Mill its in the best of the planing form ----------From: jcole10@juno.com[SMTP:jcole10@juno.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 10:44 AM Subject: Bob Millward's Planing Mill Rodmakers List, I am trying to locate a copy of the plans to Bob Millward's planingmill.My copies of THE PLANING FORM do not go back that issue. I have triedtoreach Bob by phone with no response. Thanks John Cole 708 Hardwicke DriveKnoxville, TN 37923 E-Mail jcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Apr 29 13:00:37 1998 Subject: Re: Bob Millward's Planing Mill It is in the "Best of" as someone mentioned earlier. I looked it over lastnight, and it will take some time for someone like me to figure it out, butit looks pretty good. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: JOHN E COLE Subject: Bob Millward's Planing MillDate: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 10:44 AM Rodmakers List, I am trying to locate a copy of the plans to Bob Millward's planing mill.My copies of THE PLANING FORM do not go back that issue. I have tried toreach Bob by phone with no response. Thanks John Cole 708 Hardwicke DriveKnoxville, TN 37923 E-Mail jcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 29 13:16:19 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon concerns of commercialism on my part. As for the Magazine,I for one would like to see it succeed, so I'll try to help it out Darryl The subject of why should we care if bamboo can cast as far as or farther than graphite has come up a few times. A legitimate question. a matter of promotion. He needs to get as many people ashe can to pick up his magazine and look through it. If you werea graphite only flyfisherman and you saw "Bamboo for Distance"on the cover, wouldn't your interest be piqued? rely heavily on stress curves generated by a PC, and hopefully I'm going to be able to answer one of my questions about rod tapers - "What properties of a taper contribute to distance?" Darryl from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Wed Apr 29 13:33:00 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA266924621; Wed, 29 Apr 1998 11:30:21 -0700 Subject: Bill Ballen # Jon, There's a phone number for him in the BFR magazine on page 43 that says 516-246-8004. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 29 13:51:26 1998 Subject: Re: Lack of mail Hank (and all),Check! Had to do the old double shuffle (out and back in).But I'm BAAAACK!Thanks all,Art At 10:28 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote:I got your message on the list . Did you receive this ?Hank. from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 29 14:11:55 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon At 07:48 AM 4/29/98 -0600, you wrote:I just reread my posting. Even I can cast 300". Would boou believethat it was 300'. Sorry about that!Ralph Ralph,I didn't have the heart to point it out.....Art from SalarFly@aol.com Wed Apr 29 16:00:54 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs In a message dated 4/29/98 6:53:46 AM Pacific Daylight Time,rmoon@ida.netwrites: This past weekend at the Eastern Idaho Fly Tying Expo, I had a chance tosee what may be your real cannon. It was a Winston rod, 2/1 15' long. I have no doubt a 15 ft. long rod could throw a lot of line, but we want tomake the rod 9 ft. long so that no one will say "Well of course it castslonger. Look how much longer the rod is." Also, I think we are tryingto stay within the 9 ft. rod length catagory in the competitions. Darryl from HomeyDKlown@worldnet.att.net Wed Apr 29 16:25:07 1998 with SMTP id AAA22693 for ;Wed, 29 Apr 1998 21:24:33 +0000 withlast message Subject: Re: Lack of mail QAA16220 Hey Art.. How'd you do it??? I have the same problem at my work e-mail address. Ihavebeen "off list" for a few weeks now, and have been wasting serious "goofoff"time!! I'm all ears... ...Well, eyes, really! Thanks! Dennis Haftel ( from home!) ----------Hank (and all),Check! Had to do the old double shuffle (out and back in).But I'm BAAAACK!Thanks all,Art At 10:28 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote:I got your message on the list . Did you receive this ?Hank. from jcole10@juno.com Wed Apr 29 16:37:00 1998 17:35:40 EDT Subject: Re: Bob Millward's Planing Mill Patrick,Thanks for your reply. I am looking forward to getting the book.John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from jcole10@juno.com Wed Apr 29 16:37:20 1998 17:35:40 EDT Subject: Re: Bob Millward's Planing Mill Robert,My daughter has ordered "The Best Of" for me for Father's day. Hope itcomes before then. Thanks for your reply.John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from TSmithwick@aol.com Wed Apr 29 16:48:25 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon In a message dated 4/29/98 2:00:21 PM, you wrote: Ralph - I have always built fishing rods myself, rods that cast easily andarecomfortable to use for the sport of fishing. I have also expressed someconcern to Darryl as to whether cane can actually compete with graphitefordistance casting.But, tournament casting is a sport just as legitimate as fishing, so whynotbuild specifically for the purpose. I think it will be interesting to find outjust how well we can do with current bamboo technology, which hascertainlychanged since the last time it was extensively used in competition. from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 29 16:50:11 1998 Subject: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? All, What's the goin' rate for a copy of the Barnes book? I ask becausethere's for up for auction on eBay. It's @ $90 (?) and still going. Don B. from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 29 17:24:05 1998 Subject: Re: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? At 02:49 PM 4/29/98 -0600, you wrote:All, What's the goin' rate for a copy of the Barnes book? I ask becausethere's for up for auction on eBay. It's @ $90 (?) and still going. Don B. Don, Go here---http://daniel.interloc.com/cgi- bin/texis/scripts/frameless/results.htmlIf this is not right let me know.Gary H. from michael@wugate.wustl.edu Wed Apr 29 17:34:58 1998 Subject: List Problems (was Re: Lack of mail) Dennis Haftel seez... Hey Art.. How'd you do it??? I have the same problem at my work e-mail address. Ihave been "off list" for a few weeks now, and have been wasting serious"goof off" time!! Okay folks, here's my o-fish-al instructions to anyone having this problem.And, as Art found out, the list processor might not actually unsubscribeyou, in some instances it will just postpone delivering any further mail toyou. Either way though, the following is your best course of action as itwill clear up any other problems that might exist. BTW, you might want tofile these instructions away. After all, you never know when the ol' listprocessor demons will single you out... :-) So here ya go: If the listproc software encounters delivery problems it willautomatically un- sub a user, or stop mail delivery. If youhave not been receiving RODMAKERS mail, this is most likelywhat has happened. The best cure is to first un-sub yourself from the list, and thenre-subscribe. The un-sub/re-sub usually clears up any problemsthat might exist. listproc@mail.wustl.edu In the body of the message:unsubscribe RODMAKERSsubscribe RODMAKERS yourfirstname yourlastname Let me know if you have any problems... Mike BiondoRODMAKERS Listguy from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 29 17:38:13 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs At 04:54 PM 4/29/98 EDT, you wrote: I have no doubt a 15 ft. long rod could throw a lot of line, but we want tomake the rod 9 ft. long so that no one will say "Well of course it castslonger. Look how much longer the rod is." Also, I think we are tryingto stay within the 9 ft. rod length catagory in the competitions. Darryl Darryl,Doesn't the tournament rules impose restrictions, for eachdiscipline,onthe rods? I know there has to be some sort of baseline but it seems alittle like the apple and orange thing to put the two rods under the samerestrictions. Gary H. from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 29 17:42:04 1998 Subject: Re: Lack of mail Dennis,If you were ON the list, go to the rodmakers page and access "Join/ResignRM". That will give you an e-mail blank to insert an "Unsubscribe" into. Idon't know whether to do it in the "Subject" area or the body so I did it inboth. I waited to see the unsub message before I sent the next e-mail with(yours would be) "Subscribe Rodmakers Dennis Haftel" in both places (Iweara belt AND suspenders). Do this from work or you'll knock yourself off athome. It apparently devines your return e-mail address from the messageyousend.Good luck,Art At 04:34 PM 4/29/98 PDT, you wrote:Hey Art.. How'd you do it??? I have the same problem at my work e-mail address. Ihave been "off list" for a few weeks now, and have been wasting serious"goof off" time!! I'm all ears... ...Well, eyes, really! Thanks! Dennis Haftel ( from home!) ----------Hank (and all),Check! Had to do the old double shuffle (out and back in).But I'm BAAAACK!Thanks all,Art At 10:28 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote:I got your message on the list . Did you receive this ?Hank. from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 29 17:57:07 1998 Subject: Re: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? Don,Don't know if it's still there but the latest Anglers' Art has a first ed in"good plus" condition for $65. If you don't have their address, get back tome.Art At 02:49 PM 4/29/98 -0600, you wrote:All, What's the goin' rate for a copy of the Barnes book? I ask becausethere's for up for auction on eBay. It's @ $90 (?) and still going. Don B. from cbogart@shentel.net Wed Apr 29 18:03:38 1998 TAA14378;Wed, 29 Apr 1998 19:03:28 -0400 boundary="_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_"Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Ralph Don't you know - it is a penal thing! Chris --Original Message Text--- I am curious as to what the current light rod casting records are now. Anyoneknow. I was browsing last night and found some references to 130' casts before 1923 with rods inthe 4-5oz range. That is pretty good and I really wonder if it may not be comparable. to current distances.With specialized equipment anything seems possible. I saw Steve Rajeff cast over 300" once. But Iquestion as A.J. does why we should be concerned. Distance is in my opinion one of the least importantpartsof fly fishing. It is strictly an ego trip experience and serves no earthly purpose. Maybe this is sourgrapessince I can't cast very far. It seems to me that a fly rod must have sufficient strength to cast a rateddistance effectively, but why overbuild for that effect? --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_ Ralph Don't you know - it is a penal thing! Chris --Original Message Text---From: Ralph W MoonDate: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 06:54:50 -0600 I am curious as to what the current light rod casting records are now. Anyoneknow. I was browsing last night and found some references to 130' castsbefore1923 with rods in the 4-5 oz range. That is pretty good and I reallywonder ifit may not be comparable. to current distances. With specializedequipmentanything seems possible. I saw Steve Rajeff cast over 300" once.But I question as A.J. does why we should be concerned. Distanceis inmy opinion one of the least important parts of fly fishing. It is strictly anego trip experience and serves no earthly purpose. Maybe this is sourgrapessince I can't cast very far. It seems to me that a fly rod must havesufficientstrength to cast a rated distance effectively, but why overbuild for thateffect? --_=_=_=IMA.BOUNDARY.HTML_4862608=_=_=_-- from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Apr 29 18:07:16 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs In "Tournament Fly and Baitcasting", they do show different categories fordifferent types of rods. Not sure if the rules have changed since the bookwas written. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Heidt Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo EntrepreneursDate: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 3:41 PM At 04:54 PM 4/29/98 EDT, you wrote: I have no doubt a 15 ft. long rod could throw a lot of line, but we wanttomake the rod 9 ft. long so that no one will say "Well of course it castslonger. Look how much longer the rod is." Also, I think we are tryingto stay within the 9 ft. rod length catagory in the competitions. Darryl Darryl,Doesn't the tournament rules impose restrictions, for eachdiscipline,onthe rods? I know there has to be some sort of baseline but it seems alittle like the apple and orange thing to put the two rods under the samerestrictions. Gary H. from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Wed Apr 29 18:16:27 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? Gary,I'm eavesdropping, but since you posted this to the list I guess that'sokay. When I tried the url below I got a "not enough search criteria"message. What exactly are we searching for here? Does it have anythingtodo with Geo. Barnes book?Thanks,Harry Boyd Heidt wrote: At 02:49 PM 4/29/98 -0600, you wrote:All, What's the goin' rate for a copy of the Barnes book? I ask becausethere's for up for auction on eBay. It's @ $90 (?) and still going. Don B. Don,Go here---http://daniel.interloc.com/cgi- bin/texis/scripts/frameless/results.htmlIf this is not right let me know.Gary H. from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 29 18:28:54 1998 Subject: Re: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? Harry,Yes, I do have a problem with those things! But if you punch Start anewSearch it will go to Interloc's book search. Then put in George Barnesinfo and they have a copy for $35.00. Some day I'm going to get one ofthose things right!Gary H. At 06:14 PM 4/29/98 -0500, you wrote:Gary,I'm eavesdropping, but since you posted this to the list I guess that'sokay. When I tried the url below I got a "not enough search criteria"message. What exactly are we searching for here? Does it have anythingtodo with Geo. Barnes book?Thanks,Harry Boyd Heidt wrote: At 02:49 PM 4/29/98 -0600, you wrote:All, What's the goin' rate for a copy of the Barnes book? I ask becausethere's for up for auction on eBay. It's @ $90 (?) and still going. Don B. Don,Go here---http://daniel.interloc.com/cgi- bin/texis/scripts/frameless/results.htmlIf this is not right let me know.Gary H. from bob.kossler@TANDEM.com Wed Apr 29 18:31:24 1998 conn01.austx.tandem.com SAA12442 Subject: RE: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? Harry,when you get the message "not enough search criteria", just click on newsearch. Then put in George Barnes name as search criteria and voila! You will get three or morelistings, one being the book on flyrod making with an asking price of $35.00 Bob -----Original Message-----From: Harry Boyd [SMTP:fbcwin@fsbnet.com]Sent: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 4:15 PM Subject: Re: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? Gary,I'm eavesdropping, but since you posted this to the list I guessthat'sokay. When I tried the url below I got a "not enough search criteria"message. What exactly are we searching for here? Does it have anythingtodo with Geo. Barnes book?Thanks,Harry Boyd Heidt wrote: At 02:49 PM 4/29/98 -0600, you wrote:All, What's the goin' rate for a copy of the Barnes book? I ask becausethere's for up for auction on eBay. It's @ $90 (?) and still going. Don B. Don,Go here---http://daniel.interloc.com/cgi- bin/texis/scripts/frameless/results.htmlIf this is not right let me know.Gary H. from anglport@con2.com Wed Apr 29 18:36:10 1998 rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Potential planing form problems? Anybody got some advice?The reason this is all in brackets is I tried to send it awhile back and gotit bounced back. I'm now trying again.Art I was just GIVEN a set of forms-with-the-differential-screws and as Iwaskissing the feet of the fellow who had them (almost) made (the screwsstillneed to be "differentialized" which I hope I can do) he mentioned that hehoped the screws would be able to flex the bars, since the bars are of ONEINCH keystock! Any thoughts on just how flexible those bars are going to be when Istick the screws into them? I don't build rods with swelled butts (YET)so Idon't expect that I'm going to be making wild changes over any 5" span,butwill the normal swell/shrink of a taper be too drastic for such a heavybar?If push comes to shove I can always use them for the initial tapers andmyexisting set of forms for the final planing. I'm merely anticipatingtroubleand trying to see if I'm correct to be worried.Art from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Apr 29 18:45:10 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides Randall,I run into the same problem with my Englosh Bronzed Guides.Ibought a wood touch up pen at the True Value Hardware store.They come inlight,med. and dark.After I file the feet,I touch them up with this pen ( it dries injust a few seconds ). I have had no problem with any bleed thru after varnishing thewraps. Hope this helps. Dave L. from flyfisher@cmix.com Wed Apr 29 18:56:18 1998 Subject: Re: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? RO>At 02:49 PM 4/29/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>>All,RO>>RO>>What's the goin' rate for a copy of the Barnes book? I ask becauseRO>>there's for up for auction on eBay. It's @ $90 (?) and still going.RO>>RO>>Don B.RO>>RO>Don,RO> Go here---RO>http://daniel.interloc.com/cgi- bin/texis/scripts/frameless/results.htmlRO> If this is not right let me know.RO>Gary H. Gary, Thanks for the feedback Don B. from rclarke@eou.edu Wed Apr 29 18:57:46 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides I have used Dave's suggestion and it works. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: LECLAIR123 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake GuidesDate: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 4:42 PM Randall,I run into the same problem with my Englosh BronzedGuides.Ibought a wood touch up pen at the True Value Hardware store.They come inlight,med. and dark.After I file the feet,I touch them up with this pen ( itdries injust a few seconds ). I have had no problem with any bleed thru after varnishingthewraps. Hope this helps. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Wed Apr 29 19:23:14 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Terry,One of my customers who has a shop just down the street fromOrvis,told me that they haven't been making blanks for some time.He said that overthe years alot of there blanks that wern't good enough at the time, were setaside and that they are using THEM to build there NEW bamboo rods.These are what you would call seconds,slight defects,or what ever.It's possible. Dave LeClair from thramer@presys.com Wed Apr 29 19:47:13 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Potential planing form problems? Art Port wrote: Anybody got some advice?The reason this is all in brackets is I tried to send it awhile back and gotit bounced back. I'm now trying again.Art I was just GIVEN a set of forms-with-the-differential-screws and as Iwaskissing the feet of the fellow who had them (almost) made (the screwsstillneed to be "differentialized" which I hope I can do) he mentioned that hehoped the screws would be able to flex the bars, since the bars are ofONEINCH keystock! Any thoughts on just how flexible those bars are going to bewhen Istick the screws into them? I don't build rods with swelled butts (YET)so Idon't expect that I'm going to be making wild changes over any 5" span,butwill the normal swell/shrink of a taper be too drastic for such a heavybar?If push comes to shove I can always use them for the initial tapers andmyexisting set of forms for the final planing. I'm merely anticipatingtroubleand trying to see if I'm correct to be worried.Art Hi Art,I use a set of differential bars and the screws have NO problemflexing the steel. Mine are the standard 3/4 but I can't imagine thatthe extra 1/4 will matter a bit.A.J.Thramer from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 29 20:05:58 1998 Subject: Re: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? To All,As long as I'm screwing URL's....I have found quite a few good books(likea 2ed edition Garrison/Carmichael for $55.00) at bibliofind. If you need abook its worth the look.Gary H. http://www.bibliofind.com yea it'll suprise me if it's right too! from sats@gte.net Wed Apr 29 20:11:52 1998 Subject: Re: Rod wrapping supports UAA12672 How do people support their rod sections when wrapping guides? I've got a pair of homemade supports with caster wheels mounted on a base that worked OK for round rods but is a nuisance for cane. Would a V-notch support work better or do people just freehand it? Frank. I use the V notches too. Put the thread in a weighted thimble (severalnutsaround the neck.) and hang it over the edge of the work bench. It runsthrougha very simple guide that's fastened to a 2x4 about 12 in long. I keeptensionon the rod by putting a piece of old fly line (with a weight at the front endand tied on the other) over the section. I wrap top away from me, soturningthe section toward the tie down slips good while turning top toward me puts alittle bit more tension on the line. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from RMargiotta@aol.com Wed Apr 29 20:22:24 1998 Subject: Re: A Bamboo Cannon Darryl: I think we all owe all you some respect if not downright thanks for yourinquisitive nature. Stay at it! Just to do something to see if it can bedone is reason enough, in my opinion. I seem to recall that Hiram Hawes was a tournament caster. Does anyonehave aHawes taper that could of use to Darryl? Maybe Martin Keane has one --I'lltry to contact him. --Rich from destinycon@mindspring.com Wed Apr 29 20:23:05 1998 Subject: Re: G. Barnes' rodmaking book? Boy, have you ever had one of those days? I'm really not screwing URL'sI'm screwing-UP URL's. I going to go have a drink!!G. H. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Apr 29 20:47:33 1998 Thu, 30 Apr 1998 09:46:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Re[2]: fishfest On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: I didn't really follow this particular thread so I am not sure where this fishing was done (Hawaii?), but for those of you closer to the east coast there is actually a rather large Mahi Mahi population in the Gulf Stream there. I went off North Carolina last year for tuna and packed a flyrod for Mahi Mahi but it was too rough. My friends said that the year before they caught over 60 (along with tuna) while chumming and that they were incredible fighters....the cool thing about North Carolina vs. further up north is that the gulf stream is very close to shore so the boat ride to get there is shorter (though I still chummed the whole time). The fish (tuna as well) can be caught less than 15 feet from the boat! I just wish I didn't get seasick so easily... Andy This particular trip was 40 miles off the coast of Perth (AUST). You're right about catching them 15 feet from the boat, that's the reason I mentioned them on the list. The fish are almost made for fly fishing. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Wed Apr 29 21:10:09 1998 Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:09:57 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: fishfest On Wed, 29 Apr 1998 flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>On Tue, 28 Apr 1998, Ragnarig wrote: RO>> TonyRO>>RO>> Is that $750 Yankee or Aussie? I've got small relatives in theAdelaideaRO>> whom I've never seen, let alone corrupted. Be nice to have a crackat'emRO>>RO>> DavyRO>> RO>$US 750, apparently for some reason the cost has fallen to mid 1980RO>prices. Possibly it's some deal to do with the Sydney olympics? RO>Tony Tony, Airline prices are all over the place - we just booked tickets toEngland for mid to late June. Cost ~$1,150 each for a roundtrip coachticket on United Airlines. If I was willing to fly other airlines -prices were $1,050 - $4,400. If I booked for a trip with a return to the USA by the 24th of June thenthe prices started at ~$450 even on United! It seems that the 24th is the end of "off season" drop-dead date. So itdepends so much upon "in season" or "off season", day of the week, phaseof the moon etc. and of course the airline. My wife's conference runsuntil after the 24th and we couldn't shift to save the money.#$$#%$#%$% But it you are planning a fishing trip, a shift to different days of theweek, or departure and return dates, can save you $100's ($1,000's?) ofdollars. There's a couple of very good on-line airline ticket sites if anyone isinterested. We got much better information than through the companystd.travel agent. (not working very hard) This seems to be true of mosttravel agents, IMHO. United's site search works okay, but after the search is completed andyou "accept" a flight plan and go to next page - "The pay for the ticketpage", it comes back with even more flights options at even cheaperrates sometimes. Flights it couldn't find until you accepted certainstopover cities, I guess. United's site isn't just for United flights and many of the itinerariesare for other airlines if you search for "best price". It's neat to beable to pick your seats from a display of the airplane and the remainingempty seats - all done with graphics. Want a middle seat right next tothe overflowing head - no problem. Click, you've got it. We pickedthe seats next to the crying kid with loaded diapers. The anti-Christ (MS's - Bill Gates) has a site (his fingers are intoeverything, aren't they?), BUT we got a higher price quote from his sitethan I did from United's own site and for the exact same flights! So I'dstay away from it, IMHO. Wee Willie's site is "cooler" and offers bettersearch routines -- but I think he's making a few extra bucks off eachbooking. He's got a big mortgage on that new house, I guess - what withsales of being Win98/99/2000 delayed until he buys off morepoliticians! IMHO, Don Burns Just in case anybody *is* interested in coming down this way, remember it's geting into winter now, the trout season is closed and the Roaring 40's will be blowing in prety soon, at least around my way. The best place to consider right now (until around Nov anyhow) is the Northern Territory and Queensland (Great Barrier Reef). Both these are tropical and the fishing is still good. In fact this is the only time of the year to vist these two places IMHO. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from saweiss@flash.net Wed Apr 29 22:46:37 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0029_01BD73B8.B956EBA0" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BD73B8.B956EBA0 -----Original Message-----From: Chris Bogart Date: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 5:10 PMSubject: Re: Bamboo Cannon Ralph Don't you know - it is a penal thing! Chris Chris,Do you mean penal or penile? There's quite a difference.Must be penile as applies to Bill Clinton, if he's guilty. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BD73B8.B956EBA0 -----Original = rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= <rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu= Wednesday, April 29, 1998 5:10 PMSubject: Re: thing!ChrisChris,Do you mean penal or penile? There's = difference.Must be penile as applies to Bill = guilty. ------=_NextPart_000_0029_01BD73B8.B956EBA0-- from Ragnarig@aol.com Wed Apr 29 23:03:24 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs In a message dated 98-04-29 20:23:48 EDT, you write: Dear Dave Before I got out of the service, a few years ago, I called Orvis fromoverseasand asked about the availability of bamboo seconds ( from which I builtseveralrods in my high-school days) as I was in a remote location and didn't havetime or tools for the whole process. I thought it was impressive they no longer made seconds and I told themso.They told me they had "other means of disposing of them". Somethingabouttheir hundred-some-year-old reputation. My relationship with Orvis was a good one "back in the day"; They gave megoodvalue for my exchanges and/or cash and never rushed me when I got behindon myaccounts. They were unique in the Sporting world and, for me at least, aninvaluable asset. I understand this is a different time and different people but I have a lotofgood memories associated with Orvis and won't do anything to threatenthiskharma. Like trade with them, for instance. Davy from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Thu Apr 30 02:05:05 1998 ; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:04:57 +1200 Subject: Re: Bamboo Cannon and Bamboo Entrepreneurs At 07:29 AM 11/03/98, you wrote:At 12:25 PM 4/28/98 EDT, you wrote: Thanks for all the input guys, and I think I can bePolitically Correct in saying guys, since I have notseen a woman post on this list yet. Thank you to Tom Penrose who pointed out that deleted Darryl;I seem to remember seeing tapers for a couple of tournament rods in theback of Claude Kreider's book. Now if I can only find the book, I bought itbefore I moved and it hasn't surfaced in 3 years. If you don't have it ,let me know and I'll send out a search party. I think the rod was a Winstonand the taper was given in 6" increments and of course no given lineweight. John Channer John/Darryl The book gives a taper for a " number 12 Leonard Tournament rod " on page31. Your memory is right in that it is in 6" increments . I can fax you a copyif you do not have a copy there .. regards iank Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 30 07:44:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs/Orvis rods I would not put it past orvis to do as Dave Leclair says they are doing withrods. They don't make anything else that they sell so why make bamboorodblanks. It seems to me that they steal alot of things from other people.Take for instance their hex wooden rod tubes, I think those were probablystolen from Ron Barch as I have not seen anyone else with them. I knowtheystole some fly patterns from people and put their own name on it and onand onand on. You all know orvis is called the whore of the industry by everyoneout there and this is the reason. Their motto hurray for orvis and f---everyone else.Bret from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 30 08:49:34 1998 Subject: FWD: Japanese rodmaking info All, The following post is part one of several messages posted on FF@ by ayoungfellow that is just beginning his rodmaking - but in Japan. I think you'll be able to follow all of the thread, even without thecompletesets of 2-way posts. Don Burns PS - I'm trying to get him to sign-on to rodmakers! Post: from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 30 09:01:52 1998 Subject: Japan - part #2 In a message dated 98-04-27 21:01:34 EDT, you write: from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 30 09:01:55 1998 Subject: Japan - part #3 In a message dated 98-04-29 22:20:02 EDT, you write: from Canerods@aol.com Thu Apr 30 09:02:18 1998 Subject: Japan - part #4 In a message dated 98-04-30 02:47:34 EDT, you write: Are the few tools he's bought American orJapanese? I've heard some good thingsabout some of the Japanese tools being produced > today. It seems that Hoshihara-sensei likes thestanley planes the most ... so he uses thoseexclusively. As per his splitter, beveler,planing forms, etc ... this all seem to bemade in Japan. Hoshihara-sensei is a die-hardDYI, so what he cannot make (or make better),he buys. And Garrison WAS the man. He's the fatherof almost all of today's rod builders. Hoshihara-sensei speaks in awed tones whenGarrison's name is spoken ... it seems that Ghas quite the effect. Cheers & Tight Lines, Christian==Mr. Christian THALACKERc/o Asaina Michiko-san Otaru University of CommerceMatsugae 2-6-30 Otaru International Center047-0022 Hokkaido JAPAN Midori 3-5-21 Otaru047 Hokkaido JAPANEmail: Hokkaido_Flyfisher@yahoo.comHompepage: http://members.tripod.com/~Nijimasu/O.html >> from MMills1189@aol.com Thu Apr 30 10:06:02 1998 Subject: Home grown Hi All,Has anyone ever attempted to grow their own Tonkin? The plants(Arundinariaamabilis) are quite available from U.S.mail order nurseries. What makesChina's culms so good. What ...They have better dirt? Mark Mills from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 30 10:23:25 1998 Subject: Re: Japan I think it's great that rod making is alive and well in Japan,and someone is willing to show someone else how to makethem, but tell Christian Thalacker to get real. It's basic woodworking skills, not mysticism with hushed tones and awesomeskill. Anyone willing to put in the time and effort can make them. Don't get me wrong, I would be overjoyed to have gone throughthe same experience he did, to see how someone else makesa rod, but there was just too much of the mystical tone in hisposts. Darryl Hayashida from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Apr 30 10:35:31 1998 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Home grown Mark, I looked into growing my own last year. The climateof my locale (Vicksburg, Mississippi) is a close analogto climate of where the cane is grown in China, so I figuredthat I had a good chance of some decent cane. Problemwas I couldn't find good prices on the plants. A one-gallonbucket was about $98 (US) last year. A little more thanI wanted to spend. Let me know if you can find betterprices. -Jerry --------------------------------------------------------Jerry Ballard 04/30/1998 from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Thu Apr 30 10:35:34 1998 Subject: Blackening Snake Guides When I grind the feet of H&H black DLC guides, I reblacken them byspraying the shiny feet with black lacquer, let dry overnight and thenbake them in a 300 degree oven for 1 hour. Turned out great but a blackpremanent marker sounds a lot easier. Wish I'd thought of theSharpie...would have saved a lot of work Dennis from ballard@zen.wes.army.mil Thu Apr 30 10:36:27 1998 (5.x/SMI-SVR4) Subject: Re: Japan I agree with you Darryl, but it does make fornice reading. ;-) --------------------------------------------------------Jerry Ballard 04/30/1998 from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 30 10:50:28 1998 Subject: Re[2]: Japan RO>I think it's great that rod making is alive and well in Japan,RO>and someone is willing to show someone else how to makeRO>them, but tell Christian Thalacker to get real. It's basic woodRO>working skills, not mysticism with hushed tones and awesomeRO>skill. Anyone willing to put in the time and effort can make them. RO>Don't get me wrong, I would be overjoyed to have gone throughRO>the same experience he did, to see how someone else makesRO>a rod, but there was just too much of the mystical tone in hisRO>posts. RO>Darryl Hayashida Darryl, I think he's a young guy that's seen too many Kungfu movies and is alsotaken in by the change in culture. Don Burns from FISHWOOL@aol.com Thu Apr 30 10:58:53 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Davy,Back in the late 70's I was an Orvis dealer and got 2 years behind in myaccount. They had stopped billing me and when I called them about it theysaidthey had written it off-I sent 'em a check anyway. I guess there were somanyof us " on the edge" in the early 80's that they assumed I'd decamped-anyway,their service was great and while they may be making only synthetic rodstodayand if I can find the source of their product I can get it more cheaply (i.e.Hodgeman wading shoes ,etc.) they've been around a long time. Mymemories ofthem are pretty good.Hank. from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Thu Apr 30 11:06:06 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Thu, 30 Apr 98 12:05:16 EDT Subject: Re: FWD: Japanese rodmaking info Don, Thanks for sharing. That is one amazing story. I wonder how thiscultural formality influences how they actually go about fishing?? --Bob. Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 30 11:24:49 1998 Subject: Re[2]: FWD: Japanese rodmaking info RO>Don, Thanks for sharing. That is one amazing story. I wonder how thisRO>cultural formality influences how they actually go about fishing?? -- Bob. RO>Robert M. MilardoRO>17 Merrill HallRO>Univ. of MaineRO>Orono, ME 04469RO>207 581-3128 Robert, I remember that some time back the list was trying to find out aboutJapanese bamboo. Plus the fellow is teaching english to the locals, sohe can write well - made for a good yarn. It would be nice if he'd join the list. Don from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Thu Apr 30 11:43:29 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:42:36 -0400 Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:42:36 -0400 Subject: Binders Can anyone speak to the quality of William Olsen's binder advertised in theplaning form? Any other sources? from MMills1189@aol.com Thu Apr 30 11:49:53 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Jerry, I found some Tonkin plants at "Tradewinds Bamboo Nursery". 2gal./$30 ,3gal./$46. This price includes shipping.E-Mail: bambugib@harborside.com.I think they might have a web page but I have not checked:(www.harborside.com/bamboo/). They sent me their online catalog via E-Mail.I mean everybody keeps saying how wonderful it is to be the handcraftsmenof the best rod blanks around. Well would'nt it be even better and more"mystical" (there's that word again) if you actually grew and harvested thebamboo yourself? Mark Mills from flyfisher@nextdim.com Thu Apr 30 12:21:54 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A1E265AE0096; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 10:16:18 PST Subject: Re: Home grown Hi all, Don't you think if "Tonkin Cane" could be grown here in the U.S.that would be of the same quality as the bamboo from China, that CharlesDemerest Co. would have long ago had large plantations here in thiscountrygiven the problems that they have getting the quality that all of us rodbuilders would like to have?Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Home grown Mark, I looked into growing my own last year. The climateof my locale (Vicksburg, Mississippi) is a close analogto climate of where the cane is grown in China, so I figuredthat I had a good chance of some decent cane. Problemwas I couldn't find good prices on the plants. A one-gallonbucket was about $98 (US) last year. A little more thanI wanted to spend. Let me know if you can find betterprices. -Jerry --------------------------------------------------------Jerry Ballard 04/30/1998 from MMills1189@aol.com Thu Apr 30 13:04:21 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Dell,Not necessarily, I thought that Demearest is an importer, not a farmer.Anyway, thats not the point, would'nt it be fun to try to grow your own. Imean why is China's dirt better than ours. Can't we use modern fertilizerstogrow good cane. Do you really believe that China has better farmingtechnologythan us. I doubt it highly. Something to ponder about if you care. Mark from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Thu Apr 30 13:19:19 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) 0500 Subject: Re: Home grown Jerry,If you find some Tonkin you want to try, give me acall. Right across the big muddy from you, I've got access toseveral thousands of acres of prime delta farm land, throughpeople in my church, as well as a county agent and numerousprofessional farmers. Plus, my wife has several acres (1300) ofhill land in the Red River drainage. On top of all that, I'd bewilling to put in a little sweat equity!Harry Jerry Ballard wrote: Mark, I looked into growing my own last year. The climateof my locale (Vicksburg, Mississippi) is a close analogto climate of where the cane is grown in China, so I figuredthat I had a good chance of some decent cane. Problemwas I couldn't find good prices on the plants. A one-gallonbucket was about $98 (US) last year. A little more thanI wanted to spend. Let me know if you can find betterprices. -Jerry --------------------------------------------------------Jerry Ballard 04/30/1998 from rhicks@d.umn.edu Thu Apr 30 13:41:05 1998 mail.d.umn.edu (8.8.6.Beta3/8.8.3) with SMTP id NAA14196 for Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides Dennis, Thanks for the idea about using black lacquer to cover ground feet onblack snake guides. I was thinking of using black model airlplaneenamel. I have tried the black Sharpie idea. Unfortunately, mineralspirits takes it right off I found out so I was worried about thinningmy wrap varnish with mineral spirits. Instead, I sprayed the guide feetwith a clear acrylic spray after using the black Sharpie. The sprayalso dissolves the black Sharpie marks. So, I then recoated the feetwith the black Sharpie and then wiped on some full strength Man-O-Warvarnish. This seemed to solve the problem until I was testing guidespacing. When I used latex tubing rubber bands to hold the guides onthe blank, the black color on the guide feet chipped. So I decided tosee what other people were using. The black Sharpie idea may work but Iseem to have to continually retouch it. Randy Hicks ========================= When I grind the feet of H&H black DLC guides, I reblacken them byspraying the shiny feet with black lacquer, let dry overnight and thenbake them in a 300 degree oven for 1 hour. Turned out great but a blackpremanent marker sounds a lot easier. Wish I'd thought of theSharpie...would have saved a lot of work Dennis _____________________________________________________________________ Randall E. Hicksrhicks@d.umn.edu from flyfisher@nextdim.com Thu Apr 30 14:22:56 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AE3D15C6008A; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 12:17:17 PST Subject: Re: Home grown Hi all, at the rod builder meeting at Corbett Lake in 1992 we had inattendence Mr. Demerest and his son, who have traveled to China manytimes,and they related the problems that they had with the growers andexportersconcerning the grade of bamboo that the rods builders need to use, thepointbeing, whether they are importers and not farmers it seems that if thebamboo would grow somewhere else it would be to their advantage to havesomeone here grow it for them. There have been numerous studies cocerning thebamboo that grows in neighboring provinces in China and the bamboo is notasgood. At the meeting there was also a biology student from a Californiacollege working for her masters that smuggled some shoots out of Chinatotry to grow her own, I have never heard the outcome of her experiment. Iagree that it would be great if the bamboo could be grown here it wouldmaybe mean some what cheaper prices not having to pay for shipping andimport fees.Sincerely,Dell Coppock,"IN THE GREAT NORTHWEST"http://www.trwebsites.com/dell/e-mail flyfisher@nextdim.com- ----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Home grown Dell,Not necessarily, I thought that Demearest is an importer, not a farmer.Anyway, thats not the point, would'nt it be fun to try to grow your own. Imean why is China's dirt better than ours. Can't we use modernfertilizerstogrow good cane. Do you really believe that China has better farmingtechnologythan us. I doubt it highly. Something to ponder about if you care. Mark from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Thu Apr 30 15:23:48 1998 0400 Subject: Heat Gun Does anyone know where I can mail order either the Black and Decker heat gun that I think Wayne recommends or that Bosch I've heard about. I found a Black and Decker and some others but they either don't have the wide nozzle, or have one or two temperature settings only. I would like to have a variable setting. Thanks, Andy> from dryfly@erols.com Thu Apr 30 15:33:48 1998 Subject: Re: Binders The Olsen binder is patterned after the Garrison binder and the quality isexcellent. It's very dependable, extremely sturdy, easy to set up, use andclean. However, the cost is high, $300. I am very happy with mine. Ifmoneyis an issue consider Jon Lintvet's binder-in-a-box kit (about $95???). LonBlauvelt also makes and sells binders (about $250???). Some people bindbyhand (about $0???). Just my $.02Bob jaw12@health.state.ny.us wrote: Can anyone speak to the quality of William Olsen's binder advertised intheplaning form? Any other sources? from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Thu Apr 30 15:35:46 1998 15:35:41-0500 15:35:41-0500 Subject: Heddon Fiberglass Baitcasting... Hello,I know this is way off the subject, here, butI am looking for a Heddon Mark IV or Vquality baitcasting rod with trigger grip,cork handlw with walnut rings. Doesanyone know where I might find one from hall@Summa4.COM Thu Apr 30 15:38:57 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0- 49776U700L100S0)with SMTP id AAA29779 for ;Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:38:54 -0400 199820:38:54 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA29941 for ;Thu, 30 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA28171 for Subject: Re: Heat Gun Andy,MSC has a variable heat gun by Master Appliances. Cost I believe wasaround $90. Temp. range is from 200 to 1000F. Did'nt see any attachments(2.5" spreader) in the catalog. I'd check around and see if you could dobetter than this price. Dan andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Does anyone know where I can mail order either the Black and Deckerheat gun that I think Wayne recommends or that Bosch I've heardabout.I found a Black and Decker and some others but they either don't havethe wide nozzle, or have one or two temperature settings only. Iwouldlike to have a variable setting. Thanks, Andy from rmoon@ida.net Thu Apr 30 16:48:20 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Dell, I recall that there were two plantings of Tonkin in the US. Onein Louisiana and I think the other in CA (not sure of this). Again I amrelying on an old man's memory, but I think that it was Letcher Lambuthwho tried some rod making with the Lousiana Cane and came rapidly to theconclusion that it was not at all suitable for rod making. I don'tthink that it is because we have inferior dirt or dumber farmers. As Iunderstand it is primarily the result of climatical conditions. How wasMerritt? Ralph from saweiss@flash.net Thu Apr 30 16:48:51 1998 Subject: Orvis repair Last week, on the Green below Flaming Gorge, I took a bad fall and broke anice old Battenkill. I wedged my foot between shifting rocks on aboulder- covered bank and almost broke my leg as I fell. I was lucky, andonly broke a piece of bamboo.Does anyone have a recommendation about what glue might be best tomend asplintered type break in a bakelite-impregnated rod?Steve Weiss from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 30 16:58:19 1998 Subject: RE:Orvis repair RO>Last week, on the Green below Flaming Gorge, I took a bad fall andbroke aRO>nice old Battenkill. I wedged my foot between shifting rocks on aRO>boulder-covered bank and almost broke my leg as I fell. I was lucky,andRO>only broke a piece of bamboo.RO>Does anyone have a recommendation about what glue might be best tomend aRO>splintered type break in a bakelite-impregnated rod?RO>Steve Weiss Steve, Sorry, I've not tried that kind of repair yet. Call Orvis and ask forthe bamboo rod shop - they might be able to help you out. Ask for aquote for a new tip - they might have them too. They do restoration workat decent prices - if the rod is an Orvis. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com from jczimny@dol.net Thu Apr 30 17:40:06 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun You can call Black&Decker direct and they will sell you an attachment kitoverthe phone.John Zimny andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Does anyone know where I can mail order either the Black and Deckerheat gun that I think Wayne recommends or that Bosch I've heardabout.I found a Black and Decker and some others but they either don't havethe wide nozzle, or have one or two temperature settings only. Iwouldlike to have a variable setting. Thanks, Andy from TSmithwick@aol.com Thu Apr 30 18:38:25 1998 Subject: Re: Orvis repair Steve - Sorry to hear of your mishap. I would go with a quality epoxy. TheShell Epon would certainly work. There is also a thick, hard boatbuildingepoxy called Evercoat epoxy paste, which has great gap filling properties.Ihighly recommend it for splices and repairing splintered breaks from jcole10@juno.com Thu Apr 30 18:55:11 1998 19:53:55 EDT Subject: Re: Binders BobI need more information on Jon Lintvet. Phone # Addresse or what ever.Thanks John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 30 19:11:35 1998 Fri, 1 May 1998 08:11:26 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japan On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, SalarFly wrote: I think it's great that rod making is alive and well in Japan,and someone is willing to show someone else how to makethem, but tell Christian Thalacker to get real. It's basic woodworking skills, not mysticism with hushed tones and awesomeskill. Anyone willing to put in the time and effort can make them. Don't get me wrong, I would be overjoyed to have gone throughthe same experience he did, to see how someone else makesa rod, but there was just too much of the mystical tone in hisposts. Darryl Hayashida Yes and no, I think you need to take into account the enviroment. I don't need to tell anybody Japan is where laminated swords (and plane irons and chisels) have been made for centuries. These items were made with the same reverance shown in Christian's story about cane rods while in the West we bang em out like plastic rods.Most on the list like being obscure amatures, Terry is the flag bearer of the industrialist an I'm an amature of the beer and skittles type.Leave Christian alone, I somehow think being a "little grasshopper" will heighten his enjoyment of what is a simple hobby. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from rclarke@eou.edu Thu Apr 30 19:27:23 1998 Subject: Re: Binders Jon Lintvet12 B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850800 836-7558 He is also listed on the rodmakers page. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: JOHN E COLE Subject: Re: BindersDate: Thursday, April 30, 1998 4:43 PM BobI need more information on Jon Lintvet. Phone # Addresse or what ever.Thanks John Cole _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from jcole10@juno.com Thu Apr 30 19:28:34 1998 20:26:56 EDT Subject: Re: Binders Bob,I just tried your cheap binding method ($0???) Do you know where I canfind a needle, tweezers and bandages!.John On Thu, 30 Apr 1998 16:35:12 +0000 Robert S Williams writes:The Olsen binder is patterned after the Garrison binder and the quality isexcellent. It's very dependable, extremely sturdy, easy to set up, use andclean. However, the cost is high, $300. I am very happy with mine. If moneyis an issue consider Jon Lintvet's binder-in-a-box kit (about $95???). LonBlauvelt also makes and sells binders (about $250???). Some people bind byhand (about $0???). Just my $.02Bob jaw12@health.state.ny.us wrote: Can anyone speak to the quality of William Olsen's binder advertised in theplaning form? Any other sources? _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from saltwein@swbell.net Thu Apr 30 19:32:24 1998 gw3adm.rcsntx.swbell.net TAA00294 Subject: Taper Mill Hey Everyone, I just finished looking over the tapering mill designed by BobMilward. It looks straight forward and easy to build. Has anyone onthe list built one or seen one work? I was wondering what keeps the strip from being shot through themill,with the climb cut mentioned? Is there an initial 60* planed on one side of the strip to facilitateloading it in the carrier? If anyone has used one of these I would sure appreciate some input. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 30 19:38:34 1998 Fri, 1 May 1998 08:38:17 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japan On Fri, 1 May 1998, Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, SalarFly wrote: I think it's great that rod making is alive and well in Japan,and someone is willing to show someone else how to makethem, but tell Christian Thalacker to get real. It's basic woodworking skills, not mysticism with hushed tones and awesomeskill. Anyone willing to put in the time and effort can make them. Don't get me wrong, I would be overjoyed to have gone throughthe same experience he did, to see how someone else makesa rod, but there was just too much of the mystical tone in hisposts. Darryl Hayashida Yes and no, I think you need to take into account the enviroment. I don't need to tell anybody Japan is where laminated swords (and plane ironsand chisels) have been made for centuries. These items were made with the same reverance shown in Christian's story about cane rods while in the West we bang em out like plastic rods.Most on the list like being obscure amatures, Terry is the flag bearer of the industrialist an I'm an amature of the beer and skittles type.Leave Christian alone, I somehow think being a "little grasshopper" will heighten his enjoyment of what is a simple hobby. Tony Forgot to mention, I think they turned some cane into a bound rod sectionin 5-6 hrs, that makes for a 25-30hr rod. They may be navel gazing but they're not wasting time. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Thu Apr 30 19:44:33 1998 dfw-ix13.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Home grown I did some research on growing Tonkin. I have some land in Arkansas andthought to grow some there so I could build using my own stock when Iretire but I have about given up the idea. There are several nurseriesgrowing Tonkin in the US. However, the band of acceptable climate is onlyapproximately from Tennessee on the north (where it is being grown) toLousiana on the south (where it is also grown). Further south it is to hotand further north it is to cold. The minimum temperature is 10 degreesandthe temperature in central Arkansas gets down to zero. It also takesabout15 years before the cane is mature enough to harvest. Supposedly, ittakesthis long for the plant to store enough silica. I didn't consider the timeelement a problem but the temperature is. I found a list on the web withaddresses of growers of bamboo. I blanket emailed all and got severalreplies. One fellow said his cane was 8 years old and about 3/4 inch indiameter. I've heard that it only grows well in China but I think it takesso long to reach maturity that no one has really taken the time to try.Just my own opinion. Regards,Onisk5vkq@ix.netcom.com from steveobg@nacs.net Thu Apr 30 19:55:46 1998 Subject: Airline Prices (was Fishfest) Hi, folks. here in the Cleveland area called Price Line. The Idea is that you namethe price and the airlines name the flight.Give them a try at http://www.priceline.com Hope it helps at least ONE person make the trip. -Steve-0 from rmoon@ida.net Thu Apr 30 19:58:50 1998 Subject: Re: Taper Mill Steve. I had the opportunity of watching Bob and his mill at work. Forhi m it worked great, and while I think I'd still do the final planing made one for myself, I was not quite as happy. I found that anydeviation from Bob's specs creates its own set of problems. I need torework mine and tinker and refine it a bit more, before I will feelcomfortable about using it. If you are serious about making one, Ithink you would be wise to contact Bob and discuss some of your concernswith him. Like I said for him it was great, for me needs some work Ralph from flyfisher@nextdim.com Thu Apr 30 20:01:03 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AD8B719C0146; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 17:55:39 PST Subject: Re: Japan I started planing rods on a 2 ft. v-groove block and after my third rod Itimed actual working time at 29 hrs. Now with an adjustable planing formthat is down to 20 hrs. for a completed rod. How much time does it takewitha milling machine? -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Japan On Fri, 1 May 1998, Tony Young wrote: On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, SalarFly wrote: I think it's great that rod making is alive and well in Japan,and someone is willing to show someone else how to makethem, but tell Christian Thalacker to get real. It's basic woodworking skills, not mysticism with hushed tones and awesomeskill. Anyone willing to put in the time and effort can make them. Don't get me wrong, I would be overjoyed to have gone throughthe same experience he did, to see how someone else makesa rod, but there was just too much of the mystical tone in hisposts. Darryl Hayashida Yes and no, I think you need to take into account the enviroment. I don'tneed to tell anybody Japan is where laminated swords (and plane ironsandchisels) have been made for centuries. These items were made with thesame reverance shown in Christian's story about cane rods while in theWest we bang em out like plastic rods.Most on the list like being obscure amatures, Terry is the flag bearer ofthe industrialist an I'm an amature of the beer and skittles type.Leave Christian alone, I somehow think being a "little grasshopper" willheighten his enjoyment of what is a simple hobby. Tony Forgot to mention, I think they turned some cane into a bound rod sectionin5-6 hrs, that makes for a 25-30hr rod. They may be navel gazing butthey're not wasting time. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 30 20:11:14 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A19328100B4; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:12:51 MDT Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides At 01:50 PM 4/30/98 -0500, you wrote:Dennis, Thanks for the idea about using black lacquer to cover ground feet onblack snake guides. I was thinking of using black model airlplaneenamel. I have tried the black Sharpie idea. Unfortunately, mineralspirits takes it right off I found out so I was worried about thinningmy wrap varnish with mineral spirits. Instead, I sprayed the guide feetwith a clear acrylic spray after using the black Sharpie. The sprayalso dissolves the black Sharpie marks. So, I then recoated the feetwith the black Sharpie and then wiped on some full strength Man-O-Warvarnish. This seemed to solve the problem until I was testing guidespacing. When I used latex tubing rubber bands to hold the guides onthe blank, the black color on the guide feet chipped. So I decided tosee what other people were using. The black Sharpie idea may work but Iseem to have to continually retouch it. Randy Hicks ========================= When I grind the feet of H&H black DLC guides, I reblacken them byspraying the shiny feet with black lacquer, let dry overnight and thenbake them in a 300 degree oven for 1 hour. Turned out great but a blackpremanent marker sounds a lot easier. Wish I'd thought of theSharpie...would have saved a lot of work Dennis _____________________________________________________________________ Randall E. Hicksrhicks@d.umn.edu Randall;I use Testor's enamel before I wrap, let dry overnite before wrapping.Varnish does not seem to make it run or bleed thru if it is dry first. Itried gun black, but the wire must be chrome or stainless, didn't color itat all. On a similar note, does anyone use Pac Bay guides and are they anygood? I like Perfection, when they are consistent. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 30 20:11:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A19E28200B4; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:13:02 MDT Subject: home grown Guys;I remember reading in either Wayne's book or Garrison's that the reasonthat the bamboo grown in China is superior is because of the monsoonwindsthat the cane has to deal with as it grows, this makes for stronger plants.Just a thought John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 30 20:17:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2F92C600B6; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:18:49 MDT Subject: Re: Japan At 08:11 AM 5/1/98 +0800, you wrote:On Thu, 30 Apr 1998, SalarFly wrote: I think it's great that rod making is alive and well in Japan,and someone is willing to show someone else how to makethem, but tell Christian Thalacker to get real. It's basic woodworking skills, not mysticism with hushed tones and awesomeskill. Anyone willing to put in the time and effort can make them. Don't get me wrong, I would be overjoyed to have gone throughthe same experience he did, to see how someone else makesa rod, but there was just too much of the mystical tone in hisposts. Darryl Hayashida Yes and no, I think you need to take into account the enviroment. I don't need to tell anybody Japan is where laminated swords (and plane ironsand chisels) have been made for centuries. These items were made with the same reverance shown in Christian's story about cane rods while in the West we bang em out like plastic rods.Most on the list like being obscure amatures, Terry is the flag bearer of the industrialist an I'm an amature of the beer and skittles type.Leave Christian alone, I somehow think being a "little grasshopper" will heighten his enjoyment of what is a simple hobby. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony;Don't tell me Kung Fu was popular down-under, too!! John Channerp.s. Is Kwai Chang Cane any good for rod making? from channer@hubwest.com Thu Apr 30 20:27:19 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A556F200DE; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:28:54 MDT Subject: re: Japan Dell;Is that 29 hrs. from raw culm to wrapped and varnished rod??????? If so,what am I doing the hard way that it takes me more like 60 or 70 or maybeeven more( i don't keep track because I really don't want to know, but ittakes me a looooong time to build a rod)?I work a full time job plus sidework on Saturday and Sunday is for fishing, so it takes me about 2.5-3months to finish a rod. Any time saving suggestions will be muchappreciated! Thanks John Channer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Thu Apr 30 20:56:31 1998 mtigwc05.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA27878 Subject: Re: Home grown Years ago, I heard that the region in China the bamboo comes from waswindy...and the effects of the wind on the development of the Tonkin cane's powerfiberswas what made it so desirable. (How's that for mystical?) ;^) George W. Bourke ----------From: MMills1189 Subject: Re: Home grownDate: Thursday, April 30, 1998 11:03 AM Dell,Not necessarily, I thought that Demearest is an importer, not a farmer.Anyway, thats not the point, would'nt it be fun to try to grow your own.Imean why is China's dirt better than ours. Can't we use modernfertilizers togrow good cane. Do you really believe that China has better farmingtechnologythan us. I doubt it highly. Something to ponder about if you care. Mark from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Apr 30 21:09:04 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Davy,I hope your right. I've also had good service from Orvis over theyears. It's hard to say for sure if the info that guy gave me was true or not.Wemay never know for sure if Orvis is still making there own blanks or not. Dave L. from LECLAIR123@aol.com Thu Apr 30 21:22:16 1998 Subject: Re: Binders I saw one of Olsen's binders at a show in NJ a couple of years ago,itlooked like it was made very well. I don't remember the rod maker that wasusingit,but he said it worked great. Dave L. from flyfisher@nextdim.com Thu Apr 30 21:31:08 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A2AA72630146; Thu, 30 Apr 1998 19:25:46 PST Subject: Re: Japan Hi John and all, the process that I use is a combination of steps that I got from reading and talking with other rod builders then taking what seemedtowork best for me. I flame my cane with a propane torch then divide theculminto strips as taught by Dawn Holbrook of Seattle so that strips aresequence in the fisished rod in a way to eleminate variables in the culm. Ithen straighten using a heat gun and vise to flatten the nodes, I fist wastaught to use alcohol lamp but all I did was burn up my bamboo, then topreliminary planing block for first angle then to the planing form. Whenfirst planing I some times use a bench plane which is about 12" longtakingheavy cuts down to .040 over then change to Stanley 9 1/2 for finishplaning. I made copys of Garrison in making my planing form and gluingwrapper. I use Birchwod-Casey's Tru-Oil for my rod finish and urethane onthe guide wraps, it dries quick and is a very tough finish. .-----Original Message----- Subject: re: Japan Dell;Is that 29 hrs. from raw culm to wrapped and varnished rod??????? Ifso,what am I doing the hard way that it takes me more like 60 or 70 ormaybeeven more( i don't keep track because I really don't want to know, but ittakes me a looooong time to build a rod)?I work a full time job plus sidework on Saturday and Sunday is for fishing, so it takes me about 2.5-3months to finish a rod. Any time saving suggestions will be muchappreciated! Thanks John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Thu Apr 30 21:32:01 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides RO>On a similar note, does anyone use Pac Bay guides and are they anyRO>good? I like Perfection, when they are consistent. RO>John Channer John, I use them, what's your question: A) Are they as good looking as the best of the old Perfection guides -nope. (I use the black guides) B) How do they hold up - don't know yet. Most are on rods that haven'tbeen fished. There's on restored rods I'm trying to sell. Note: There are old and new designs to the snake's twist. Make sure youget all of one or the other or the rod will look funny. Old ----> ---/\/--- New ----> ---/|/--- I think that's correct. Don Burns from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 30 21:55:23 1998 Subject: Heddon Parts Whoever was asking me about Heddon parts please e-mail me off list as Ilostall my mail somehow and don't know who wanted what.Bret from flyrod@artistree.com Thu Apr 30 21:59:34 1998 TAA18471 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Andy -Another choice for you might be a Sears Craftsman Industrial Heat Gun(Model #927801- Variable Temp.) & Heat Gun Tip (Item #911802 - 3" SurfaceNozzle) Sawthe gun at Sears recently for $99.00 & tip is about $10.00. I also use thepipe welding tip which is curved and allows me to keep the strip at anexactheight from the heat gun tip. Don't quote on this but this gun really lookslike it could be a Steinel with Sears name on it. I know it's a bit expensivebut I've been really happy with the performance. I've also seen a Milwaukeebrand heat gun but I think you would need to build a stand to keep itupright.Hope this helps.Best RegardsChris Wohlford andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com wrote: Does anyone know where I can mail order either the Black and Deckerheat gun that I think Wayne recommends or that Bosch I've heardabout.I found a Black and Decker and some others but they either don't havethe wide nozzle, or have one or two temperature settings only. Iwouldlike to have a variable setting. Thanks, Andy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Thu Apr 30 22:00:40 1998 Fri, 1 May 1998 11:00:16 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japan Tony;Don't tell me Kung Fu was popular down-under, too!! Yeh, we wind up with all the same crap on TV you fellows get, and wemake some of our own too. I don't see much point in everyone jumping in with how quickly they can make a rod unless it's for a living. The point I'm making is that Christian *realy* enjoys what he's doing and his method seems efficient too. Why knock it? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 30 22:09:07 1998 Subject: 12 foot three piece and more I received a phone call from a guy today that had some bamboo rods to givetome since I was the only one he knew of that would appreciate the thought. Igot a 3 piece 12 ft 2 handed Montague Redwing, a 3 pc 8 ft Payne , a 3 pc 8ftorvis, a three piece 8 ft Hardy and a 3 pc 8 ft L.L. Bean. I thought someonewas looking for the taper for a 2 handed salmon rod and I think I may havewhat they were looking for. If anyone is interested let me know and I willmeasure it this weekend and post .Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 30 22:13:10 1998 Subject: Re: Binders I have one of William Olsens binders and I like it just fine. well made andvery smooth.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Thu Apr 30 22:22:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Heat Gun I use a Milwaukee and it came with its own stand. from SalarFly@aol.com Thu Apr 30 22:30:04 1998 Subject: Re: Japan Yes and no, I think you need to take into account the enviroment. I don'tneed to tell anybody Japan is where laminated swords (and plane ironsandchisels) have been made for centuries. These items were made withthe same reverance shown in Christian's story about cane rods while inthe West we bang em out like plastic rods.Most on the list like being obscure amatures, Terry is the flag bearerofthe industrialist an I'm an amature of the beer and skittles type.Leave Christian alone, I somehow think being a "little grasshopper"will heighten his enjoyment of what is a simple hobby. I'm even more aware than most of the sensei - student relationshipdue to my heritage and training - decades of martial arts where thistype of thing is inflated past all reason. Perhaps that's why I tend to tryand tone down this type of "little grasshopper" thing. Funny you should mention swordmaking. I am going to trade a rod with a fairly well known knifemaker in this area, and I am trading for a knife (it's so large it's almost a sword) - a tanto. Forgot to mention, I think they turned some cane into a bound rodsectionin 5-6 hrs, that makes for a 25-30hr rod. They may be navel gazing but they're not wasting time. He mentioned that it was a single tip rod. The 5ft. one piece I am makingwas planed from rough strip to ready to be glued in 4 hrs. Darryl Hayashida from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Thu Apr 30 22:52:43 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Thu, 30Apr 1998 23:53:46 -0400 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I bought a Wagner from Sears. I waited until there was a sale (almost every other weekend). It is variable speed, electroniccontrol, and came with a couple access. including the spreadernozzel. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Leessinker@aol.com Thu Apr 30 23:21:39 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides John,I've used Pac Bay guides on everything I've done , for the price they can'tbebeat.All guides are preground and on the plated guides they're ground beforeplating.I know a lot of people stand by Fuji , but then people like Loomis , St Croixect...use Pac Bay on thier production rods. I know that price is a factor, buttheyuse them with no fear of still putting thier name on the rod.BTW Sorry I did'nt mean to swear (L,St C.)Dewayne Davison