from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 1 00:19:11 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun In a message dated 4/30/98 8:05:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,flyrod@artistree.com writes: Don't quote on this but this gun really lookslike it could be a Steinel with Sears name on it. No doubt about it. It is a nice heat gun.Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 1 01:19:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A9C81C200BC; Fri, 01 May 1998 00:20:56 MDT Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides At 07:30 PM 4/30/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>On a similar note, does anyone use Pac Bay guides and are they anyRO>good? I like Perfection, when they are consistent. RO>John Channer John, I use them, what's your question: A) Are they as good looking as the best of the old Perfection guides -nope. (I use the black guides) B) How do they hold up - don't know yet. Most are on rods that haven'tbeen fished. There's on restored rods I'm trying to sell. Note: There are old and new designs to the snake's twist. Make sure youget all of one or the other or the rod will look funny. Old ----> ---/\/--- New ----> ---/|/--- I think that's correct. Don Burns Don;Thanks, what I was wondering is : when you order a batch of guides, dotheyall look the same? The last 3 or 4 times I have bought guides ( economicsforces me to buy parts 1 rod at a time) they look like they were made by 3or more companies. The last batch of black guides I got some were shinyblack, some were flat, some had completely flat feet and others had aslight round were it rises to the curve. I suppose it is possible that thesupplier is substituting for out of stock sizes, but they all hadPerfection stock #s and were all priced the same,besides, the H&H guidesIhave bought had the ends of the feet pre-butchered by some moron. MaybeI'mtoo picky, but I like a little consistency if I can get it. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 1 01:58:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2E91C200C8; Fri, 01 May 1998 00:59:53 MDT Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides At 12:21 AM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:John,I've used Pac Bay guides on everything I've done , for the price theycan't bebeat.All guides are preground and on the plated guides they're ground beforeplating.I know a lot of people stand by Fuji , but then people like Loomis , StCroixect...use Pac Bay on thier production rods. I know that price is a factor, buttheyuse them with no fear of still putting thier name on the rod.BTW Sorry I did'nt mean to swear (L,St C.)Dewayne Davison Dewayne;Thanks for the info. Do they do a good job grinding? I have bought H&H for2 rods and they are pre-ground, too, but the ones I got had the worstimaginable grinding job done on them. They were whacked off at an angle,burned , and no 2 feet were the same length. Most of them weren't evensalvageable, I wound up returning them and using Perfection instead. Ihavere-finshed some old rods that had very nice guides,Heddon and Phillipsoninparticular. I am told these were Perfection guides, if so, I wonder whythey changed the way they are made, the new ones don't seem to look thesame at all. I will have to try Pac Bay next time, I think they are in oneof the catalogues I have. Thanks again John Channer from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 03:29:36 1998 BAA03485 Subject: Re: Heat Gun And if someday Darryl ever does get around to building that "Neunemann"style oven he will find that his gun heats up the oven quite quickly andthe variable temp. feature does a great job at holding a constant temp.setting. And you can quote me on that. : )Chris SalarFly wrote: In a message dated 4/30/98 8:05:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,flyrod@artistree.com writes: Don't quote on this but this gun really lookslike it could be a Steinel with Sears name on it. No doubt about it. It is a nice heat gun.Darryl from sats@gte.net Fri May 1 05:13:44 1998 Subject: Re: Japan FAA27440 Don't get me wrong, I would be overjoyed to have gone throughthe same experience he did, to see how someone else makesa rod, but there was just too much of the mystical tone in hisposts. Darryl Hayashida Darryl, He loves Japan. He really feels at home there. It was interesting that in one of his posts, he mentioned that his mentorhad acopy of Garrison's book. I'm interested, because he and I had a small misunderstanding about thebamboorods that were made and sold to G.I.'s after the war. And to a lot of us, working with our hands is spiritual. The feeling we getcatching fish on flys we've tied, or rods, we've built is something beyondprideof ownership... Glad you're doing well. I hope to try one of your rods in the future. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from Canerods@aol.com Fri May 1 06:59:50 1998 Subject: Re: Heddon Parts In a message dated 98-04-30 22:57:42 EDT, you write: Bret, I was one of the people. You told me to hang in there until the originalposter replied. I'm loking for reelseats, ferrules and rod sections. (mids and tips mostly) Don Burns Canerods@aol.com or Flyfisher@cmix.com from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 07:21:06 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Hi All, I am going to build the Neuneman heat gun oven. Has anyone built thisthing.His pipe measurments are in metric, but I can't seem to find stove pipethatsmall. All I can get is 6" and 4" dia stove pipe. I don't know if my heat gunwill heat up a pipe that big. Does anyone have successful dimentions orotherpipe diameters that worked for them.Thanks Mark Mills from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 1 07:30:33 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Heddon Parts Don, What do you need in ferrules? As far as mids and tips go I make bantiesoutof them but if I get stuff I don't want I will post. I am going to look atone today so I will let you know on that. How much are you willing to payfortips etc. as i live in Heddon country and run across stuff al the time.Bret from stpete@netten.net Fri May 1 08:06:56 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA12969 for Subject: Re: Heat Gun MMills1189 wrote: Hi All,I am going to build the Neuneman heat gun oven. Has anyone built thisthing.His pipe measurments are in metric, but I can't seem to find stove pipethatsmall. All I can get is 6" and 4" dia stove pipe. I don't know if my heatgunwill heat up a pipe that big. Does anyone have successful dimentions orotherpipe diameters that worked for them.Thanks Mark Mills Mark, I've built the Neuneman style oven using 6" and 4" pipe I picked up atthe local discount hardware store. I used a 6" flanged "starter" ringto mount the oven on a board for a base and I used a 6" cap for the top.All I had to do to assemble was: a) align open, split 4" and 6" pipe with the 4" pipe inside the 6"b) put three sheetmetal screws through both pipe from the insidec) snap together the 4" pipe, then the 6"d) screw the 6" starter flange to a board for a stable basee) cut two holes in a 6" cap one for the heatgun that goes into the6" but not into the 4", and one for the exhaust that comes from the4"f) put a 3" elbow as an exhaust pipe The starter flange is about 5" high so thats where the airflow from the6" gets to flow down and up into the 4". I use a Milwaukee which adjusts via the vents on the side of the gun. It's just one I had. It'll get to 300-350 pretty quick. I think itwould work much better with a variable heatgun. Watch out - the pipegets very hot. I used insulation under the starter flange/base andaround the pipe. Good Luck,Rick from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri May 1 08:16:42 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: Heat Gun Thanks to everyone for their suggestions....seems like there are a lot of good choices...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Heat Gun Author: at Tcpgate I bought a Wagner from Sears. I waited until there was a sale (almost every other weekend). It is variable speed, electroniccontrol, and came with a couple access. including the spreadernozzel. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri May 1 08:19:01 1998 Subject: RE:12 foot three piece and more RO>I received a phone call from a guy today that had some bamboo rods togive tRO>me since I was the only one he knew of that would appreciate thethought. IRO>got a 3 piece 12 ft 2 handed Montague Redwing, a 3 pc 8 ft Payne , a 3pc 8RO>orvis, a three piece 8 ft Hardy and a 3 pc 8 ft L.L. Bean. I thoughtsomeonRO>was looking for the taper for a 2 handed salmon rod and I think I mayhaveRO>what they were looking for. If anyone is interested let me know and IwillRO>measure it this weekend and post .RO>Bret Bret, I wish I knew that would give me a Payne rod. Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri May 1 08:19:18 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides RO>Thanks, what I was wondering is : when you order a batch of guides, dotheyRO>all look the same? The last 3 or 4 times I have bought guides (economicsRO>forces me to buy parts 1 rod at a time) they look like they were made RO>or more companies. The last batch of black guides I got some wereshinyRO>black, some were flat, some had completely flat feet and others had aRO>slight round were it rises to the curve. I suppose it is possible that theRO>supplier is substituting for out of stock sizes, but they all hadRO>Perfection stock #s and were all priced the same,besides, the H&Hguides IRO>have bought had the ends of the feet pre-butchered by some moron.Maybe I'mRO>too picky, but I like a little consistency if I can get it. RO>John Channer John, I've not had that type of problem with the Pacific Bay guides. They alllook the same. As far as the cosmetics, they look like they are "painted" with a glosspaint compared to the old Perfection tungsten steel's dull look. Pac Bayguides come with pre-ground feet - still need some touch-up work. Theycome with sharp pointy corners - ground by the same morons? I think Perfection has had some major production troubles, I knowAngler's Workshop couldn't supply me with any because their backorders The shiny guides sound like they were Pac Bay guides. containers divided into old style and new style. I guess until the oldones are gone? I happen to like the shape of new style guides myself,but have some of each style for restorations. B.M.'s, price forwalk-in's is $0.35 each. I don't know what the bulk order price would besince I haven't purchased more than ~20 of each size at a time. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com or cnaerods@aol.com PS - I do have some old Perfection #1 & #2 Tungsten steel guides thatI've been hoarding for restorations, can't seem to find any more ofthese guides myself. from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Fri May 1 08:25:31 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 1 May 1998 09:24:37 -0400 Fri, 1 May 1998 09:24:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I just got of the phone with Steinel... I was looking for a source andthey gave me the following two mail order places. (I must say I'mimpressed. I sent them an EMAIL yesterday asking for a vendor and theyrepleyed within two hours. I'm a little odd in that I'm comfortable withparting with my money to someone who actually works for it!!!) Connector Microtools 817-283-4882 Tools on Sale 612-224-4859 Any suggestions on which model to buy??? from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri May 1 08:32:39 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Given that Cane grown here probably will not have all the attribute thatmakethe imported stuff so "right" due to altitude, yearly rainfall, mountainoussoil or whatever. I've often wondered if a little genetic tweaking alongwithour technology in pesticides and fertilization could actually make asuperiordomestic bamboo. If we could only get Archer-Daniels- Midlandinterested...heck, there are pot growers that are supposedly growing stuffthat is much stronger that the stuff from the 60's (according to our ownpresident)! Rob from spalding@harrynormanrealtors.com Fri May 1 08:42:07 1998 Subject: HELP!! In Wayne's book he mentions that most taper listings must be devided bytwo in order that you arrive at the correct dimension of an individualstrip. So, does this mean that in setting up the planing form for finalplaning, where the tip taper references .070 at the 00 location, theactual debth that would be set would be .035 ??!! Sorry if this seemsremedial, but this has been my first major stumbling block, though Isuspect that there will me many more to follow. ThanksSpalding from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 08:53:40 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was also goingtoinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the top andone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along the pipe.Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark from sats@gte.net Fri May 1 08:55:32 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides IAA15014 Thanks for the info. Do they do a good job grinding? I have bought H&H for2 rods and they are pre-ground, too, but the ones I got had the worstimaginable grinding job done on them. They were whacked off at an angle,burned , and no 2 feet were the same length. I'm glad I'm not the only one having these problems! Because I'm not selling rods, I try to salvage what I can from scrap. But Ican't always depend on getting what I need, so I've bough guides from alocalbuilder and from catalogs. Not good, is mild. Most don't come ground down, Size of feet can be verydifferent, etc. etc. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net Most of them weren't evensalvageable, I wound up returning them and using Perfection instead. Ihavere-finshed some old rods that had very nice guides,Heddon and Phillipsoninparticular. I am told these were Perfection guides, if so, I wonder whythey changed the way they are made, the new ones don't seem to look thesame at all. I will have to try Pac Bay next time, I think they are in oneof the catalogues I have. Thanks again John Channer from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 08:59:09 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Rob ,Those are my thoughts exactally.Why can't we grow a superior cane? Mark from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 09:01:06 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! Yes Sir, That is exactally what it means....Divide the rod diameter in twoandset your forms to that spec. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri May 1 09:03:36 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 1May 1998 10:05:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides I am a little concerned with the discussion about guides. In particular, the way the feet are coming "as purchased." I would really have a hard time believing these guides are meant to be put on a rod. I have always assumed, and taught classes (graphite) where I point out the importance of dressing the feet. I have always used H&H guides and found the quality exceptional. I believe the feet ate pressed and then hacked off with a grinding wheel (at very high speed) which would explain the burned ends. I would suggest using a dremel moto tool (or something similar) with a light abrasive disc. I spend about 45 min dressing the guide feet and shortening them for a rod. I don't like doing it, but it is similar to dressing the slits on a ferrule. You don't have to, but it sure looks pretty under clear wraps! Take care,I will put a picture of the bit I use on the web page under tools. Take a look this evening if you have the time. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri May 1 09:04:56 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 1May 1998 10:06:41 -0400 Subject: Re: HELP!! Yes...divide the dimension by two and set the forms to the new number. The ones given ar the dimension across flats...a diameter if you will. Your new number will be the radius if we were talking about a circle.Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 09:13:50 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown I almost forgot, If that does'nt work, blame it on "El Nino"..... Mark from hall@Summa4.COM Fri May 1 09:23:50 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0- 49776U700L100S0)with SMTP id AAA17564 for ;Fri, 1 May 1998 10:23:48 - 0400 199814:23:47 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id KAA03872 for ;Fri, 1 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA24574 for Subject: Re: HELP!! Hi All,So from the replies, the below form setting calculation seemscorrect. Given this is so, does this mean the following? 1. Waynes tapers are for a unfinished rod2. The scraping of the enamel (0.002 or so) does not affect thiscalculation Thanks all,Dan Spalding White wrote: In Wayne's book he mentions that most taper listings must be devided bytwo in order that you arrive at the correct dimension of an individualstrip. So, does this mean that in setting up the planing form for finalplaning, where the tip taper references .070 at the 00 location, theactual debth that would be set would be .035 ??!! Sorry if this seemsremedial, but this has been my first major stumbling block, though Isuspect that there will me many more to follow. ThanksSpalding from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 09:47:04 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! Dan,Yes,Wayne's tapers are for an unfinished rod, not a strip.You can leave the enamel side of strip .001 or .002 oversize to allow forscraping. Don't scrape into the power fibers though. Mark from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 1 10:01:07 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Japan with tom Morgan mill and bob millwards mill it takes just a few hours from split and straightened strips to glue up. At merritt bob told me hetakes 4 passes on each side and ends up at +/- .001. I saw ademonstration of tom Morgan and in a few minutes the strip was done andthe glued up section, he had, showed no glue lines. ----------From: Dell[SMTP:flyfisher@nextdim.com] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 1998 6:01 PM Subject: Re: Japan I started planing rods on a 2 ft. v-groove block and after my thirdrod Itimed actual working time at 29 hrs. Now with an adjustable planingformthat is down to 20 hrs. for a completed rod. How much time does ittake witha milling machine? from Canerods@aol.com Fri May 1 10:09:24 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides All, If you try to recover old snake guides - buy yourself a bottle of Duro"Extend" and dip the guides into the stuff. Extend removes any surface rustand leaves behind a gray coating (some will wash off during the cleanupwash),works better than steel wool and manual labor, IMHO. If the guide is very rusty - best to chuck it away or use on a wall-hanger. Don BurnsCanerods@aol.com or Flyfisher@cmix.com from jcole10@juno.com Fri May 1 10:16:54 1998 09:36:02 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Gun JonThanks for info on heat gun. I saw on E-mail that you had a "BindingKit",. Would like more information on it ., before I start trying tobuild one. Thanks in advance John E. Cole708 Hardwicke DriveKnoxville, TN 37923Ph 432/693-2690E-Mail jcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from gwr@seanet.com Fri May 1 10:23:07 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA27173 for; Subject: Tungsten snakes available If anyone would like info on obtaining small tungsten snake guides (mostly1/0, Perfections, circa 1950), please contact me off-list. Thanks, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com from jcole10@juno.com Fri May 1 10:39:09 1998 09:50:30 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Gun MarkGlad you ask, I would like to know about the Neuneman oven also. John Cole On Fri, 1 May 1998 08:20:29 EDT MMills1189 writes:Hi All, I am going to build the Neuneman heat gun oven. Has anyone built this thing.His pipe measurments are in metric, but I can't seem to find stove pipe thatsmall. All I can get is 6" and 4" dia stove pipe. I don't know if my heat gunwill heat up a pipe that big. Does anyone have successful dimentions or otherpipe diameters that worked for them.Thanks Mark Mills _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri May 1 10:47:12 1998 Fri, 1 May 1998 23:46:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Home grown On Fri, 1 May 1998, MMills1189 wrote: Rob ,Those are my thoughts exactally.Why can't we grow a superior cane?Mark Perhaps there is a botanist out there who can help. There are plenty of cases of trees that are great timber in one area and useless in others. The obvious ones that come to mind are Spotted Gum and Sydney Gumwhich I believe are the Eucalypts growing around California that everyone hates and the timber is used for fire wood. Here the timber is used for boat building, house framing, basicaly everything Oak is used for in the US. Jarrah is another that grows to an excellent timber here in Western Australia but wont even grow in the Eastern states. Montery Pine form Washington (I believe) is not I'm told not much of a tree in the US but grow to huge suckers out here.There is a bloke in Queensland growing Tonkin, has been for about 5 years and has told me he pours gallons of water onto them and although they've grown very tall wont thicken. Maybe the Chinees talk to them? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Fri May 1 11:13:02 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 1 May 1998 12:12:38 -0400 Fri, 1 May 1998 12:12:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Home grown And He would know! Nodewrrior@aol.com on 05/01/98 09:32:03 AM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Home grown Given that Cane grown here probably will not have all the attribute thatmake the imported stuff so "right" due to altitude, yearly rainfall,mountainous soil or whatever. I've often wondered if a little genetictweaking along with our technology in pesticides and fertilization couldactually make a superior domestic bamboo. If we could only getArcher-Daniels-Midland interested...heck, there are pot growers that aresupposedly growing stuff that is much stronger that the stuff from the60's(according to our own president)! Rob from Leessinker@aol.com Fri May 1 11:23:27 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides John, The grind job on ther Pac Bay is acceptable for the most part, concideringthemass production involved. Wayne suggest that guides be shortened ( tohelprelieve stress) and all reduced to a standard length , which would involveregrinding in any event.Inspection of each guide and touch up of inferior feet and fit to the blankshould always be done , nothing should be taken for granted it saves timeinthe long run .Dewayne I hope Wayne corrects me if I'm wrong. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 1 11:34:12 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! In a message dated 5/1/98 7:52:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,MMills1189@aol.comwrites: Don't scrape into the power fibers though. Why not? As long as your strip has good power fiber all the way through, scraping into the power fiber form the enamel side won'taffect the strength, and improve the appearance a lot. Darryl from thramer@presys.com Fri May 1 11:37:20 1998 Subject: Pac Bay Guides If you are given a choice use the second generation Pac Bay. The firstgeneration had some problems with the wire hardness. This is NOT frommyown experience but from numerous reports. The black guides from Pac Bayand Perfection will groove over time. Pac Bay are what you are recievingmost of the time when you order Perfection as the company has had supplyproblems for an extended period of time. I cannot justify the cost ofH&H guides to myself, that same feeling I get from plasic $600 rods. The Pac Bay guide are quite inexpensive if you can scrape together$400 between a few of you. It appears to me that they are the only gamein town. I believe that they also handle Gudebrod products.A.J.Thramer from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 12:29:04 1998 KAA23783 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I agree insulation is a must. Holds temp. much better and for longerperiods oftime. Went so far as to add a 8" pipe around outside of 6" (with 4" inside)andstuffed (actually I wrapped) insulation in the 2" gap. Just make sure youtakethepaper backing off the insulation if there is any. The outside pipe getswarminstead of hot and the oven looks neater which makes my wife happierwhenshowingoff the shop to visitors. I also modified to use in a horizontal position as opposed to a vertical. Ifyouthink about it for a minute all you have to do is add some wire mesh (tosupportthe cane strips) the length of the inside of the 4" pipe and put a removablecapon the end. I then store the oven in an upright position when not in use.Best Regards,Chris Mark, I've built the Neuneman style oven using 6" and 4" pipe I picked up atthe local discount hardware store. I used a 6" flanged "starter" ringto mount the oven on a board for a base and I used a 6" cap for the top.All I had to do to assemble was: a) align open, split 4" and 6" pipe with the 4" pipe inside the 6"b) put three sheetmetal screws through both pipe from the insidec) snap together the 4" pipe, then the 6"d) screw the 6" starter flange to a board for a stable basee) cut two holes in a 6" cap one for the heatgun that goes into the6" but not into the 4", and one for the exhaust that comes from the4"f) put a 3" elbow as an exhaust pipe The starter flange is about 5" high so thats where the airflow from the6" gets to flow down and up into the 4". I use a Milwaukee which adjusts via the vents on the side of the gun.It's just one I had. It'll get to 300-350 pretty quick. I think itwould work much better with a variable heatgun. Watch out - the pipegets very hot. I used insulation under the starter flange/base andaround the pipe. Good Luck,Rick from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri May 1 12:35:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A69F97401D6; Fri, 01 May 1998 10:30:07 PST Subject: Re: HELP!! The so called power fibers are more dense on the outer area of the strip soany removal of fibers will weaken the strip. look at the end of a culm youcan see that as the structure of the fibers get more dense as theyprogress from interior to exterior.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: HELP!! In a message dated 5/1/98 7:52:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,MMills1189@aol.comwrites: Don't scrape into the power fibers though. Why not? As long as your strip has good power fiber all the waythrough, scraping into the power fiber form the enamel side won'taffect the strength, and improve the appearance a lot. Darryl from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 12:39:20 1998 KAA24724 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I forgot to mention one other thing. If you have problems securing the 6" &4"tubetogether with screws or bolts try using rivets. I remember picking up acheaprivettool for less than $10 at the hardware store and have found it invaluable. C.J. Wohlford wrote: I agree insulation is a must. Holds temp. much better and for longerperiodsoftime. Went so far as to add a 8" pipe around outside of 6" (with 4" inside)andstuffed (actually I wrapped) insulation in the 2" gap. Just make sure youtakethepaper backing off the insulation if there is any. The outside pipe getswarminstead of hot and the oven looks neater which makes my wife happierwhenshowingoff the shop to visitors. I also modified to use in a horizontal position as opposed to a vertical. Ifyouthink about it for a minute all you have to do is add some wire mesh (tosupportthe cane strips) the length of the inside of the 4" pipe and put aremovablecapon the end. I then store the oven in an upright position when not in use.Best Regards,Chris Mark, I've built the Neuneman style oven using 6" and 4" pipe I picked up atthe local discount hardware store. I used a 6" flanged "starter" ringto mount the oven on a board for a base and I used a 6" cap for the top.All I had to do to assemble was: a) align open, split 4" and 6" pipe with the 4" pipe inside the 6"b) put three sheetmetal screws through both pipe from the insidec) snap together the 4" pipe, then the 6"d) screw the 6" starter flange to a board for a stable basee) cut two holes in a 6" cap one for the heatgun that goes into the6" but not into the 4", and one for the exhaust that comes from the4"f) put a 3" elbow as an exhaust pipe The starter flange is about 5" high so thats where the airflow from the6" gets to flow down and up into the 4". I use a Milwaukee which adjusts via the vents on the side of the gun.It's just one I had. It'll get to 300-350 pretty quick. I think itwould work much better with a variable heatgun. Watch out - the pipegets very hot. I used insulation under the starter flange/base andaround the pipe. Good Luck,Rick from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 1 12:48:08 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Heat Gun I made mine out of rectangular ducting, 8" for the outside and 6" forthe inside and used 1' insulation duct board between the two forinsulation and small round pipe for the cane and pop riveted the wholething together. I made the 6" one inch shorter than the 8" put a cap onthe 6"and 8" and put 1"suct between them. It stays relatively cool andholds temperature quite nicely. ----------From: C.J. Wohlford[SMTP:flyrod@artistree.com] Sent: Friday, May 01, 1998 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Heat Gun I agree insulation is a must. Holds temp. much better and for longerperiods oftime. Went so far as to add a 8" pipe around outside of 6" (with 4"inside) andstuffed (actually I wrapped) insulation in the 2" gap. Just make sureyou take thepaper backing off the insulation if there is any. The outside pipegets warminstead of hot and the oven looks neater which makes my wife happierwhen showingoff the shop to visitors. I also modified to use in a horizontal position as opposed to avertical. If youthink about it for a minute all you have to do is add some wire mesh(to supportthe cane strips) the length of the inside of the 4" pipe and put aremovable capon the end. I then store the oven in an upright position when not inuse.Best Regards,Chris Mark, I've built the Neuneman style oven using 6" and 4" pipe I picked upatthe local discount hardware store. I used a 6" flanged "starter"ringto mount the oven on a board for a base and I used a 6" cap for thetop.All I had to do to assemble was: a) align open, split 4" and 6" pipe with the 4" pipe inside the 6"b) put three sheetmetal screws through both pipe from the insidec) snap together the 4" pipe, then the 6"d) screw the 6" starter flange to a board for a stable basee) cut two holes in a 6" cap one for the heatgun that goes into the6" but not into the 4", and one for the exhaust that comes fromthe4"f) put a 3" elbow as an exhaust pipe The starter flange is about 5" high so thats where the airflow fromthe6" gets to flow down and up into the 4". I use a Milwaukee which adjusts via the vents on the side of thegun.It's just one I had. It'll get to 300-350 pretty quick. I think itwould work much better with a variable heatgun. Watch out - thepipegets very hot. I used insulation under the starter flange/base andaround the pipe. Good Luck,Rick from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri May 1 12:52:08 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: HELP!! Dan,If you're going to leave a trace of enamel, just set your forms approx.001oversize. For example, at the tip setting you mentioned, .035, if you leaveonalittle enamel, try setting your form at .036.And if you think that's tiny, try a 2-weight at .024" at the tip!Harry Boyd Dan Hall wrote: Hi All,So from the replies, the below form setting calculation seemscorrect.Given this is so, does this mean the following? 1. Waynes tapers are for a unfinished rod2. The scraping of the enamel (0.002 or so) does not affect thiscalculation Thanks all,Dan Spalding White wrote: In Wayne's book he mentions that most taper listings must be devidedbytwo in order that you arrive at the correct dimension of an individualstrip. So, does this mean that in setting up the planing form for finalplaning, where the tip taper references .070 at the 00 location, theactual debth that would be set would be .035 ??!! Sorry if this seemsremedial, but this has been my first major stumbling block, though Isuspect that there will me many more to follow. ThanksSpalding from royera@sprynet.com Fri May 1 13:08:07 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Personally, I think everyone should grow bamboo. Its aesthetics arematchedonly by a peacefulness the plant exudes. An easiness flows through yourbody while walking through an established grove of healthy bamboo, theleaves whisper ancient secrets to one another and if you rest in theirmidst, you can hear what they are saying... Yeah yeah, enough of that hippy shit, what can we build from it? We cangrow hundreds of kinds of bamboo here in the states including tonkin.However, like any tropical bamboo, you will not grow bamboo to itsmaximumpotential unless you are growing it where it is happy. Arundinariaamabilisis happy in the small geographic area in southern China. It grows in thehills at an altitude of 200-500 metres (650' -1650') in an area thatreceives 120cm (47") of rain May through August and 15cm (6") of rainOctober through January. The temperatures range from 15-30 C. (65-85F.)throughout the year with low temperature rarely going below 5 C. (41 F.) I also heard about the wind and its effects on the quality of the bamboo. Iwas told that if we were to dry bamboo in October, the combination oflotsof direct sun and strong winds would result in green coloured bamboo. Iwasalso told that a visible ring around the moon meant that it would rain thenext day. My wife from Tennessee tells me that if cows are laying downthefish are biting... There is as much bullshit as mysticism floating aroundin China. I am not discounting the wind and its potential effects on thegrowth pattern of bamboo, I happen to think there are other reasons. Bamboo is a plant. Like all plants, conditions exist which will result inhealthy and unhealthy growth. As a farm crop, much of the tonkin beinggrown in China is being grown in an unhealthy manner which gives us poorquality material. Too much of the bamboo is being grown as a monocropand,like many wild things, it needs to be grown in accordance to nature.Meaning, on a hillside, you should not see bamboo growing alone but with ahealthy undergrowth of smaller plants. Bamboo grown in a symbioticrelationship is most healthy. Some farmers grow better bamboo. While inChina last summer, I noticed the same farmers mark on several ofthelargest, best looking pieces of cane. When visiting Winston's shop lastOctober, I was looking at a large collection of older cane with GlennBrackett. I saw the butt end of a very nice, large piece of cane and pulledit out of the pile. There again, was that same farmers slash mark! My point is, that two things (at least) are needed to grow the kind oftonkin cane that rodbuilders desire; the right climate and proper farmingtechniques. If you find the first, you can learn the second. I think Gib Cooper at Tradewinds Nursery [(541) 247-0835] may be thebestsource for live plants. He should also be of assistance in determining howbest to grow this bamboo and what you may expect from it. It is true thatit would take several years before the plants reach maximum size but youcanappreciate them immediately. And remember, once a good grove of bambooisestablished, poles are harvestable every three to four years. Genetic tweaking? Ah yes, that's how we live it in these advanced firstworld countries. To answer the question; yes, you probably could get agenetically tweaked new species that would be all that you need. The mantodo it is Dr. John Woods at West Wind Technologies in TN. They have beenpropagating and tweaking bamboos for years. There are in a bit of adifferent league however. Build a genetically superior bamboo for flyrodconstruction? I imagine they would be happy to, for a few hundredthousanddollars. West Wind Technologies is part of a movement promoting bambooasthe fibre of the future. This is the market promoting bamboo as buildingmaterials to "first world" countries. Products such as flooring, veneers,structural beams, paneling, OSB... Fairly big-time stuff. So, a bamboothat would be perfect for flyrod builders would also appeal to othermarketscapable of throwing around big money, but those people are already outtherethrowing money into finding a bamboo which already exists. A bamboowithsuper dense, strong fibres would be appreciated by many but I can notimagine a market that needs a bamboo to be as pretty as flyrod builderswould like it. I think you guys down South should give it a go. Talk to Gib and get someplants in the ground. Now is the time of year to do it. I personally don'tbelieve you will achieve what you are looking for in terms of a "super"tonkin cane, but you can certainly grow some beautiful stuff. And, youmayfind a few poles in ten years that will be perfect for a cane rod. It is true that I have a vested interest in everyone buying the tonkin grownin Southern China but as I understand it, tonkin is the best cane forrodbuilding and the Guandong province in China is where that bamboogrowsbest. I have access to dozens of species of bamboo from around the worldand I have yet to find a bamboo with the fibre density matching that oftonkin cane. I applaud any and all attempts to find better bamboo or growtonkin elsewhere. Cordially, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri May 1 13:16:18 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Mark, Do yourself a favor, forget the candy thermometers. Go to your localheating & air-conditioning supplier and get some high temp. thermometers.If you go digital they are easier to read and more accurate.Gary H. At 09:52 AM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was alsogoing toinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the topandone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along the pipe.Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 13:37:27 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Andy,Very nice,very nice indeed. I really enjoyed that piece.Now how about breaking up some of those bales so us little guy's can getsomeof your good S**T. Mark Mills from anglport@con2.com Fri May 1 14:33:19 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun At 11:21 PM 4/30/98 EDT, you wrote:I use a Milwaukee and it came with its own stand. Bret,What color is that Milwaukee? I was warned off the black ones as they'renotmade by Milwaukee Tools but some other similarly-named company. Ifyou'vegot a black one and it works, they seem to be a helluva lot cheaper thanthered ones! I'd like to save the bucks and try it out.Art from royera@sprynet.com Fri May 1 14:47:54 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Thank you. I sell 3-9 poles cut in half shipped via UPS. After that I sell fullbundles of 10 pcs. Please write to me at the below address for moredetails. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: Home grown Andy,Very nice,very nice indeed. I really enjoyed that piece.Now how about breaking up some of those bales so us little guy's can getsomeof your good S**T. Mark Mills from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri May 1 14:48:12 1998 Subject: In Search Of... To; A.J,I just compleated your 3pc. 7'9" for a 3wt. and when the finish curesI'moff to the river....Thanks!!! To; Everyone, butalas I don't have the taper. Can anyone help me out? As a matter of factI would appreciate any of Pinky's tapers. Gary H. from dhaftel@att.com Fri May 1 14:48:30 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 15:09:08-0400 Subject: RE: Home grown 4.0.995.52 I'd take a few pieces!! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: MMills1189 [SMTP:MMills1189@aol.com]Sent: Friday, May 01, 1998 2:37 PM Subject: Re: Home grown Andy,Very nice,very nice indeed. I really enjoyed that piece.Now how about breaking up some of those bales so us little guy's can getsomeof your good S**T. Mark Mills from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 14:59:31 1998 MAA29861 Subject: Re: Home grown Last year I read an article in the paper (Sunday Real Estate section) aboutacouple that bought a house in the SF Bay area that had a stand of bamboogrowing in the back yard. To make a long story short they were having ahell ofa time getting rid of it. They cut it down, it came back, they poisoned it, itcame back, they dug up the roots, it came back, they even brought in abulldozer and dug up the whole backyard and it still came back. I guess theroot systems are quite extensive. Sometimes you just can't kill abeautifulthing. Personally, I would love a stand of Bamboo in my backyard. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 15:03:06 1998 NAA00233 Subject: Re: Heat Gun The Milwaukee I saw a maker using was Red.Chris Art Port wrote: At 11:21 PM 4/30/98 EDT, you wrote:I use a Milwaukee and it came with its own stand. Bret,What color is that Milwaukee? I was warned off the black ones as they'renotmade by Milwaukee Tools but some other similarly-named company. Ifyou'vegot a black one and it works, they seem to be a helluva lot cheaper thanthered ones! I'd like to save the bucks and try it out.Art from gwr@seanet.com Fri May 1 15:07:23 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16937 for; Subject: Re: In Search Of... Gary, You need to buy Jack Howell's book "The Lovely Reed." He's got asection of about 50 tapers, most miked out by Daryll Whitehead, and theyinclude a 7'6" Gillum among a total of 10 Gillum tapers. I'd just give youthe taper, but I don't know where I'd stand with Jack & his publisher if Idid. Anyway, the book is worth every penny of it cost, probably more. CallBarry Serviente at The Angler's Art to order a copy. Phone: (800) 848-1020. Read & enjoy, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: In Search Of... To; A.J,I just compleated your 3pc. 7'9" for a 3wt. and when the finish cures I'moff to the river....Thanks!!! To; Everyone, alas I don't have the taper. Can anyone help me out? As a matter of factI would appreciate any of Pinky's tapers. Gary H. from royera@sprynet.com Fri May 1 15:26:15 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown (Don't be afraid!) Bamboo's got a bad reputation. It is very easy to control when it isplanted by using a rhizome barrier or other, natural, barrier. Bamboo doesmuch of its growing beneath the ground. It has a root ball or rhizomestructure about 16" beneath the soil. It is from these rhizomes thatbambooshoots. It is hard to maintain twenty years after it has been plantedbecause the underground root system is now extensive and invisible. Anyoneinterested in growing bamboo should do a little research which is easy todoon the internet or at a library. Anyone interested in growing a lot ofbamboo should contact Daphne Lewis who wrote a book called "Bamboo ontheFarm." Ms. Lewis is a wonderful resource and has worked to promotebambooas a cash crop here in the States. Please write to me if you want hernumber. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: Home grown Last year I read an article in the paper (Sunday Real Estate section) aboutacouple that bought a house in the SF Bay area that had a stand of bamboogrowing in the back yard. To make a long story short they were having ahell ofa time getting rid of it. They cut it down, it came back, they poisoned it,itcame back, they dug up the roots, it came back, they even brought in abulldozer and dug up the whole backyard and it still came back. I guesstheroot systems are quite extensive. Sometimes you just can't kill abeautifulthing. Personally, I would love a stand of Bamboo in my backyard. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 1 15:29:23 1998 Subject: Scraping Power Fiber (Was: HELP!!) In a message dated 5/1/98 10:39:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,flyfisher@nextdim.com writes: The so called power fibers are more dense on the outer area of the stripsoany removal of fibers will weaken the strip. look at the end of a culmyoucan see that as the structure of the fibers get more dense as theyprogress from interior to exterior. This is true, but notice what I said:As long as your strip has good power fiber all the waythrough, scraping into the power fiber form the enamel side won'taffect the strength, and improve the appearance a lot. First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no more than.005 from the outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida from hall@Summa4.COM Fri May 1 15:55:18 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0- 49776U700L100S0)with SMTP id AAA17712 for ;Fri, 1 May 1998 16:55:12 - 0400 199820:55:12 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA06075 for ;Fri, 1 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA07843 for Subject: Re: HELP!! Harry et all,Thanks for your clarification. To summerize:If one wants most/all of the enamel off, one should increase the depth(oversize) by the amount they want to take off (.001 oversize forleaving some enamel on, .005 oversize for scraping all enamel off). Oncedone planing (flats only) the 6 strips whas this extra depth. One isleft with the enamel to scrape. The amount of enamel one has to scrape(per strip), to get back to the original finished rod taper, is theamount of the oversize.Some different camps exist on how much can/can't be scraped.Appearsthe consensis is, given that you have (100%)power fibers throughout thestrip (a requirement really), taking up to .005/strip is not a big loss,leaving one with a nicer finish.So if the intent is to leave some enamal, oversize by .001, if want allenamel off, plus a hair, oversize by .005. Sorry for the reiteration, but if the above is not correct, pleasecorrect me. Thanks for your patience,Dan Harry Boyd wrote: Dan,If you're going to leave a trace of enamel, just set your forms approx.001oversize. For example, at the tip setting you mentioned, .035, if youleaveon alittle enamel, try setting your form at .036.And if you think that's tiny, try a 2-weight at .024" at the tip!Harry Boyd Dan Hall wrote: Hi All,So from the replies, the below form setting calculation seemscorrect.Given this is so, does this mean the following? 1. Waynes tapers are for a unfinished rod2. The scraping of the enamel (0.002 or so) does not affect thiscalculation Thanks all,Dan Spalding White wrote: In Wayne's book he mentions that most taper listings must be devidedbytwo in order that you arrive at the correct dimension of an individualstrip. So, does this mean that in setting up the planing form for finalplaning, where the tip taper references .070 at the 00 location, theactual debth that would be set would be .035 ??!! Sorry if this seemsremedial, but this has been my first major stumbling block, though Isuspect that there will me many more to follow. ThanksSpalding from rclarke@eou.edu Fri May 1 16:17:50 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown (Don't be afraid!) I appreciate your attitude Andy! It would be fun to grow my own, but inthe mean time, I'll continue to buy your's ( well as soon as I use up theculms filling up my living room). Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Andy Royer Subject: Re: Home grown (Don't be afraid!)Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 1:26 PM Bamboo's got a bad reputation. It is very easy to control when it isplanted by using a rhizome barrier or other, natural, barrier. Bamboodoesmuch of its growing beneath the ground. It has a root ball or rhizomestructure about 16" beneath the soil. It is from these rhizomes thatbambooshoots. It is hard to maintain twenty years after it has been plantedbecause the underground root system is now extensive and invisible. Anyoneinterested in growing bamboo should do a little research which is easytodoon the internet or at a library. Anyone interested in growing a lot ofbamboo should contact Daphne Lewis who wrote a book called "Bamboo ontheFarm." Ms. Lewis is a wonderful resource and has worked to promotebambooas a cash crop here in the States. Please write to me if you want hernumber. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx----- Original Message-----From: C.J. Wohlford Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 1:10 PMSubject: Re: Home grown Last year I read an article in the paper (Sunday Real Estate section)aboutacouple that bought a house in the SF Bay area that had a stand of bamboogrowing in the back yard. To make a long story short they were having ahell ofa time getting rid of it. They cut it down, it came back, they poisonedit,itcame back, they dug up the roots, it came back, they even brought in abulldozer and dug up the whole backyard and it still came back. I guesstheroot systems are quite extensive. Sometimes you just can't kill abeautifulthing. Personally, I would love a stand of Bamboo in my backyard. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 17:27:49 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Andy, Glad to hear you are breaking bails,the last time I mailed you, you wereselling only full bails. Can you send the list your current prices for smallquantities. Your home grown input was great. Thanks Mark Mills, WestPalmBeach, Fl. from sats@gte.net Fri May 1 17:27:50 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides RAA24856 All, If you try to recover old snake guides - buy yourself a bottle of Duro"Extend" and dip the guides into the stuff. Extend removes any surfacerustand leaves behind a gray coating (some will wash off during the cleanupwash),works better than steel wool and manual labor, IMHO. If the guide is very rusty - best to chuck it away or use on a wall-hanger. Thanks for the advice. I've got a pot full of fairly large snakes that I got from a fella in Tampa. However they're all silver, not black. My localsource This helps a lot. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Fri May 1 17:27:52 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! RAA24872 Some different camps exist on how much can/can't be scraped.Appearsthe consensis is, given that you have (100%)power fibers throughout thestrip (a requirement really), taking up to .005/strip is not a big loss,leaving one with a nicer finish. Be very careful about removing power fibers. A little goes a long way. I'vebeen experimenting along these line's (don't have anything to report yet,except that it's easy to mess up a rod doing this.) Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri May 1 17:59:09 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA061033391; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:56:31 -0700 Subject: Weakening a rod I plan to experiment a little with weakening a mid and tip section of a 9' rod by reducing the taper by very slight increments. I'll use a finish sandpaper and take a stroke or two from each flat and then mic. it. The goal being to eventually arrive at a taper that might more closelyresemble the taper of a 6' rod built the way rods are best built. I suppose a way to start is measure the three diameter's and even them out to the smallest measurement at that point if there is variation. Then determine the areas that need reduced and very carefully proceed from there. Having made a few mid/tip banty rods it seems to be largely a potluck on the final action. Any of these rods will cast line of course, but some are definitely better at it than others. I hope to come up with a more specific method to arrive at a useable mid/tip banty. Not necessarily a pre- determined line wt. but more an action and taper that iscomplimentary of any line at all. I can hear the comments already. Why would you want to do this? Whocares? etc., but there seem to be plenty of people at least starting out with mid/tip rods prior to moving on to raw materials and never looking back. In this kind of project, how much sanding is too much might be mostlybased on who made the blank in the first place and how much sanding they did to remove the glue etc. when the blank was initially completed. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri May 1 18:09:12 1998 Subject: RE:Weakening a rod RO>In this kind of project, how much sanding is too much might be mostlybasedRO>on who made the blank in the first place and how much sanding they didtoRO>remove the glue etc. when the blank was initially completed. RO>Chris McDowell Chris, John Cooper has experimented with putting old noodles into desicant and"drying" old rods out. That might be something to also test on yourproject rod. Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Fri May 1 18:14:08 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun ArtWe have been over this previously - All rpt All Milwaukee heatguns (even the red ones) are now made by Wagner - they bought outMilwaukee heat gun business about 3-4 years ago. Chris At 11:21 PM 4/30/98 EDT, you wrote:I use a Milwaukee and it came with its own stand. Bret,What color is that Milwaukee? I was warned off the black ones as they'renotmade by Milwaukee Tools but some other similarly-named company. Ifyou'vegot a black one and it works, they seem to be a helluva lot cheaper thanthered ones! I'd like to save the bucks and try it out.Art Regards Chris from stpete@netten.net Fri May 1 18:58:52 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA20851 for Subject: Re: Heat Gun MMills1189 wrote: Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was alsogoing toinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the topandone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along the pipe.Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark Mark, I drilled a hole and put in a thermometer about 2/3 of the way up theoven into the 4" section. Works for me. Two or three thermometerswould probably be more accurate but the air is moving up so I figure itspretty consistent in the 4" tube. Rick from rclarke@eou.edu Fri May 1 19:18:34 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Wayne's oven works pretty slick as well. Take a look at http://www.eou.edu/fao/bamboo.htm It was not as difficult as I had expected. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: stpete Subject: Re: Heat GunDate: Saturday, May 02, 1998 4:57 AM MMills1189 wrote: Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was alsogoing toinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the topandone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along thepipe. Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark Mark, I drilled a hole and put in a thermometer about 2/3 of the way up theoven into the 4" section. Works for me. Two or three thermometerswould probably be more accurate but the air is moving up so I figure itspretty consistent in the 4" tube. Rick from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 1 19:27:46 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! In a message dated 5/1/98 3:29:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sats@gte.netwrites: Some different camps exist on how much can/can't be scraped.Appearsthe consensis is, given that you have (100%)power fibers throughoutthestrip (a requirement really), taking up to .005/strip is not a big loss,leaving one with a nicer finish. Be very careful about removing power fibers. A little goes a long way.I'vebeen experimenting along these line's (don't have anything to report yet,except that it's easy to mess up a rod doing this.) Are we talking about making a new rod, or altering an alreadyexisting rod? With a new rod, we can remove the outer enamel and go into the power fibers and still preserve the planned diameter of the blank. With an already existing rod, the only thingyou can do is reduce the diameter. In that case, yes you are goingto alter the action or line wt the rod casts. Lets figure out what weare doing here before we go any further. Darryl Hayashida from rclarke@eou.edu Fri May 1 19:30:13 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting Here we go. Two Piece Salmon Fly Rod, 15 ft length, weight 2 1/2 pounds, at 6 inchintervals: Tip: .215, .227, .273, .294, .310, .359, .387, .415, .440, .487, .520,.540, .564, .564 Butt: .564, .600, .626, .690, .710, .736, .750, .802, .812, .830, .967,.967, .967 ----------From: Roger Long Subject: Re: Tournament CastingDate: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 8:18 AM Robert, I would be very interested in any two-handed tapers that you have. Ithink bamboo would be wonderful for spey and other two-handed castingtechniques. Thanks,Roger Long Robert Clarke wrote: from Tournament Fly and Baitcasting by Earl Osten, 1946 Measurements for a "highly recommended tournament trout fly rod,9 ftweightis 8 oz, 2 piece,in 6 inch intervals": ---------- tip.120.180.220.240.262.268.270.280.304.329 butt.329.363.400.402.425.457.504.512.512 Someone might want to feed this into hexrod to see what the stresscurveis. It is in 6 inch intervals, there may be a way to convert it to 5inchintervals. There are also other tapers for two handed rods. Anytakers? comments? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri May 1 19:32:27 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16698; Fri, 1 May 199820:07:55 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod At 03:47 PM 5/1/98 PDT, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:I plan to experiment a little with weakening a mid and tip section of a 9' rod by reducing the taper by very slight increments. I'll use a finish sandpaper and take a stroke or two from each flat and then mic. it. The goal being to eventually arrive at a taper that might more closelyresemble the taper of a 6' rod built the way rods are best built. I suppose a way to start is measure the three diameter's and even them out to thesmallest measurement at that point if there is variation. Then determine the areas that need reduced and very carefully proceed from there. Having made a few mid/tip banty rods it seems to be largely a potluck on the final action. Any of these rods will cast line of course, but some are definitely better at it than others. I hope to come up with a more specific method to arrive at a useable mid/tip banty. Not necessarily a pre- determined line wt. but more an action and taper that iscomplimentary of any line at all. I can hear the comments already. Why would you want to do this? Whocares? etc., but there seem to be plenty of people at least starting out with mid/tip rods prior to moving on to raw materials and never looking back. In this kind of project, how much sanding is too much might be mostlybased on who made the blank in the first place and how much sanding they didto remove the glue etc. when the blank was initially completed. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Chris, I have done this sort of "adjustment." I have one of those Japanesepost-war GI rods. It never threw aany line from #6-#4 with any kind of tight loop. I read one of Darryl'sposts about making a rod throw a tight loop by reducing the diameter oftheregion about 5 inches from the tip. I measured up the taper of the "cheaprod" and plotted it with hexrod. Indeed, the stress curve showed excessivestiffness in the area 5-6" behind the tip. I used sandpaper to reduce thethickness in that area enough to increase the stress in that region.Testing the rod showed a significant improvement of its loop formingability, but it still is a mediocre to poor rod due to the quality of thecane. The workmanship on the rod is good but the materials are poorquality. I suggest that you use the stress plot of the rodas a guide, but remember that when you remove cane from the outside youareprobably removing power fibers and should remove less than stress analysis suggests. Good luck. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 1 20:37:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japan Tony,I agree-there's room for all of us in here and the english teacherobviously enjoys being "the little grasshopper" .I'd have given my right armto have been in his shoes some years ago (well, maybe not the whole arm).Hank. from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri May 1 20:45:01 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A93A17026E; Fri, 01 May 1998 18:39:06 PST Subject: Re: Tournament Casting The following are measurements taken from varnished two-handedSteelhead rodmade With fluted hollow butt in 1958 by King White of B.C. Canada that Ihave built 9wt. DT. 10 1/2oz.2" .120 5".135 10".156 15".177 20".195 25".217 30".239 35".256 40".27545".288 50".303 55".317 60".327 65".344 70"- ferrule 75".360 80".37285".38690".392 95".398 100".408 105".421 110".446 115".455 120".468End of male ferrule-70 3/16" end of female ferrule 69"cork-120 to 140" with 6" butt grip. More of overhead rod but spey castreasonably well. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tournament Casting Here we go. Two Piece Salmon Fly Rod, 15 ft length, weight 2 1/2 pounds, at 6 inchintervals: Tip: .215, .227, .273, .294, .310, .359, .387, .415, .440, .487, .520,.540, .564, .564 Butt: .564, .600, .626, .690, .710, .736, .750, .802, .812, .830, .967,.967, .967 ----------From: Roger Long Subject: Re: Tournament CastingDate: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 8:18 AM Robert, I would be very interested in any two-handed tapers that you have. Ithinkbamboo would be wonderful for spey and other two-handed castingtechniques. Thanks,Roger Long Robert Clarke wrote: from Tournament Fly and Baitcasting by Earl Osten, 1946 Measurements for a "highly recommended tournament trout fly rod,9 ftweightis 8 oz, 2 piece,in 6 inch intervals": ---------- tip.120.180.220.240.262.268.270.280.304.329 butt.329.363.400.402.425.457.504.512.512 Someone might want to feed this into hexrod to see what the stresscurveis. It is in 6 inch intervals, there may be a way to convert it to 5inchintervals. There are also other tapers for two handed rods. Anytakers? comments? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 1 20:55:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Home grown Mark, A bundle only costs 250.00 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 1 20:56:31 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Heat Gun Art, I have both, have had the black one for about 15 years and it stillworks.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 1 20:57:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Home grown List,Andy's cane is really good stuff too.Bret from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 1 21:14:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1F049F00B6; Fri, 01 May 1998 20:16:16 MDT Subject: Pacific Bay Don;Glad to hear Pac Bay's guides are consistent, to get a full rods worth ofPerfections I've had to resort to stealing from some of my old rods to getthe job done. I will defineately try them on my next rod, unless I can sellthe customer on bronze hardware, I like Dave's guides alot, but the last 3rods I have made they either wanted chrome or black. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 1 21:14:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1F349F00B6; Fri, 01 May 1998 20:16:19 MDT Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides At 10:01 AM 5/1/98 +0000, you wrote:I am a little concerned with the discussion about guides. In particular, the way the feet are coming "as purchased." I would really have a hard time believing these guides are meant to be put on a rod. I have always assumed, and taught classes (graphite) where I point out the importance of dressing the feet. I have always used H&H guides and found the quality exceptional. I believe the feet ate pressed and then hacked off with a grinding wheel (at very high speed) which would explain the burned ends. I would suggest using a dremel moto tool (or something similar) with a light abrasive disc. I spend about 45 min dressing the guide feet and shortening them for a rod. I don't like doing it, but it is similar to dressing the slits on a ferrule. You don't have to, but it sure looks pretty under clear wraps! Take care,I will put a picture of the bit I use on the web page under tools. Take a look this evening if you have the time. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon;I don't mind grinding feet at all, in fact I would rather do it myself thanhave some imbecile at the factory make a mess out of the job. What I amrefering to is guide feet that are pre-ground to the point where there isnothing left to touch up. I have had this problem on at least 25% of theH&H guides I bought, so I won't buy them any more. I will try Pac Bay forblack and chrome guides, but will use Dave LeClair's bronze guideswheneverpossible, they are the best I have used. John Channer from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri May 1 21:21:42 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... Gary, I have a good 8' 6wt 2pc taper of Pinky's. I built it as a big trout rod butit throws the IL sized bass hairbugs admirably. The stress curve issimlisarto that of the Payne parabolic in the archives(!).I plan to do A.J.'s 7'9" next for a client, please tell me how yours turnedout, I'd love to hear! I just taped guides on a Driggs and casted it...whatacool action!! I'm curious to see how she fishes! Rob Hoffhines from steveobg@nacs.net Fri May 1 21:32:14 1998 Subject: What have I found? Hi, Folks,I recently purchased a rod for the ridiculous sum of $20.00 from anantique store.The varnish looked downright terrible, all cracked and bubbled. It had aPfleuger 707 automatic fly reel attached to it, and, since I have ayoung neighbor boy that wants to learn fly fishing, but can't use hisleft hand, I basically bought the reel to give to him.The rod, I thought was shot. missing the stripping guide, and at leastone (probably two) snake guide, frayed intermediate wraps, bad varnish,cork wasted away... well, it looked like hell.there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up thenickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing cronies(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideawhat this might be. I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofthis 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of afirst bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aline, I'll have learned a lot from it. Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O -----I seem to have misplaced my tagline.----- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 1 21:34:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re: HELP!! I have to agree with Darryl-the "don't touch the power fibers" mystique issomuch B.S. When we plane a taper we're cutting across power fibers, if wekeepnodes we have a discontinuity. I f the culm has ample fibers planing theoutside won't hurt a thing IM not so HO.HANK. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 1 21:34:40 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! Yep, .035 " from rennyg@ibm.net Fri May 1 21:43:20 1998 out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA80802 for; Sat, 2 May 1998 02:43:16 GMT Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Darryl, I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, such asan oak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example, cottonwood,was atleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cell structurethanthefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, my questionhereiswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo with smallercells,nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given your point ofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestionseemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I am curiouswhetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn'tapplyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no more than.005fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from gwr@seanet.com Fri May 1 22:06:20 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA07004 for; Subject: Re: What have I found? Hi Steve, If I've got my history right ( from Sinclair & others), the Cross Rod Co.of Lynn, Mass. was formed in 1920 by a Mr. Forsyth & a Mr. Cross. WesJordan (later of Orvis fame) was their rodmaker. In '26 CR Co. waspurchased by South Bend. South Bend continued to issue rods under theCrossname in Indiana. Presumably since your rod is marked Lynn, Mass., it wasproduced between '21 & '26, though it is possible that reelseats sostampedwere still used from the new headquarters in Indiana until the parts ranout.Value? Hommel suggests, for an 8 1/2' 3piece 2-tip "Forsyth" trout rod(no Tournament models mentioned), a value of $55.00 for a poor conditionrodand up to nearly $300.00 in mint condition. Mint restored might see avalueof $225.00- $250.00. At any rate, it sounds like an excellent project rodwith a bit of history behind it.If you don't already have it, you should consider picking up a copy ofSinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook."Best of luck, Russgwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message----- Subject: What have I found? Hi, Folks,I recently purchased a rod for the ridiculous sum of $20.00 from anantique store.The varnish looked downright terrible, all cracked and bubbled. It had aPfleuger 707 automatic fly reel attached to it, and, since I have ayoung neighbor boy that wants to learn fly fishing, but can't use hisleft hand, I basically bought the reel to give to him.> The rod, I thoughtwas shot. missing the stripping guide, and at leastone (probably two) snake guide, frayed intermediate wraps, bad varnish,cork wasted away... well, it looked like hell.there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up thenickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing cronies(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideawhat this might be. I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofthis 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of afirst bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aline, I'll have learned a lot from it. Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O -----I seem to have misplaced my tagline.----- from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri May 1 22:14:22 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AE2D1E0248; Fri, 01 May 1998 20:08:29 PST Subject: Re: What have I found? Steve you have a rod that was made during the time that Wes Jordanworked don't lose the markings.-----Original Message----- Subject: What have I found? Hi, Folks,I recently purchased a rod for the ridiculous sum of $20.00 from anantique store.The varnish looked downright terrible, all cracked and bubbled. It had aPfleuger 707 automatic fly reel attached to it, and, since I have ayoung neighbor boy that wants to learn fly fishing, but can't use hisleft hand, I basically bought the reel to give to him.The rod, I thought was shot. missing the stripping guide, and at leastone (probably two) snake guide, frayed intermediate wraps, bad varnish,cork wasted away... well, it looked like hell.there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up thenickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing cronies(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideawhat this might be. I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofthis 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of afirst bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aline, I'll have learned a lot from it. Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O -----I seem to have misplaced my tagline.----- from anglport@con2.com Fri May 1 22:37:33 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun At 09:56 PM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:Art, I have both, have had the black one for about 15 years and it stillworks.Bret Sounds like a good buy to me. The guy at Steinel (who was so helpful whenIwanted to modify my Steinel gun) warned me strongly against thenon- Milwaukee Tool Co model but the price is too good to just ignorewithoutfurther investigation!Thanks from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri May 1 23:45:55 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers On Thursday, May 7th at 8:00 PM there will be a gathering of rodmakers intheChicago area at Coren's Rod and Reel (773)631-5202 in Norwood hts. Justaninformal meet-n-greet and share ideas, cast rods etc. Call Eric HeckmanatCoren's for more details. Rob Hoffhines from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri May 1 23:52:08 1998 Subject: RE:What have I found? RO> there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up theRO>nickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.RO>Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"RO> Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing croniesRO>(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideaRO>what this might be. RO> I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofRO>this 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of aRO>first bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aRO>line, I'll have learned a lot from it. Steve, I popped this off the best online web site for production rodinformation - Dick Spurr's "The Classic Angler" url:http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm I don't see any 8'6" tournament rods listed. If you are correct in the major rod list people. Too bad you stripped it already - this might be a"special" rod and a collector would've wanted it "as-is". Prices shownare all based upon a rod in excellent original condition. See the URL Thank Dick Spurr for the url too, Don Burns from kgabd@clsp.uswest.net Sat May 2 00:16:02 1998 Subject: Re: What have I found? Steve-o wrote: Hi, Folks,I recently purchased a rod for the ridiculous sum of $20.00 from anantique store.The varnish looked downright terrible, all cracked and bubbled. It had aPfleuger 707 automatic fly reel attached to it, and, since I have ayoung neighbor boy that wants to learn fly fishing, but can't use hisleft hand, I basically bought the reel to give to him.The rod, I thought was shot. missing the stripping guide, and at leastone (probably two) snake guide, frayed intermediate wraps, bad varnish,cork wasted away... well, it looked like hell.there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up thenickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing cronies(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideawhat this might be. I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofthis 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of afirst bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aline, I'll have learned a lot from it. Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O -----I seem to have misplaced my tagline.-----Steve, according to Mike Sinclair's book, Cross Rod & Tackle was founded Bend bought the company in 1926 and acquired Jordan in the deal. SouthBend rods were priced to compete with production rods (Montague, H-Ietc) Cross rods were higher quality to compete with Gramger, Thomas,Edwards, etc. Cross rods disappeared from South Bend's line after WWII.Good luck. Kevin. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat May 2 00:30:56 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA8991 Subject: Re: Home grown When I was growing up in Southeastern Michigan, I planted some bamboothatan aunt gave me. (It definitely was NOT the stuff bamboo rods are madefrom.)The owner of the apartments I lived in tried to get rid of the stuff...itthrived in spiteof being dug up, having salt and battery acid thrown on it, and probably ahost ofother attempts as well. Too bad it wasn't Tonkin or even Calcutta. Itonly got toabout 1/2" diameter with a very distinct "groove" running down everysinglestalk itever grew and was thin-walled and weak. But VERY hardy! George Bourke ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: Home grownDate: Friday, May 01, 1998 2:03 PM Last year I read an article in the paper (Sunday Real Estate section)about acouple that bought a house in the SF Bay area that had a stand of bamboogrowing in the back yard. To make a long story short they were having ahell ofa time getting rid of it. They cut it down, it came back, they poisonedit, itcame back, they dug up the roots, it came back, they even brought in abulldozer and dug up the whole backyard and it still came back. I guesstheroot systems are quite extensive. Sometimes you just can't kill abeautifulthing. Personally, I would love a stand of Bamboo in my backyard. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from flyrod@artistree.com Sat May 2 01:18:42 1998 XAA06309 Subject: Re: What have I found? Steve,Please do post the taper when you can. I would love to see it. Thanks.Chris Wohlford Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O from SalarFly@aol.com Sat May 2 01:55:09 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber I didn't say there was _no_ difference. This is what I said: Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. You lost me with your comparison between oak and cottonwood.A better comparison would be between larger cells and smallercells within the same piece of oak. Darryl **************************************************************************I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, such asan oak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example, cottonwood,was atleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cell structure than thefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, myquestion here iswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo withsmaller cells, nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given your pointofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestion seemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I amcurious whetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn'tapplyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no more than.005 fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 03:33:29 1998 Sat, 2 May 1998 16:33:17 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... out, I'd love to hear! I just taped guides on a Driggs and casted it...whatacool action!! I'm curious to see how she fishes! Rob Hoffhines Like a dream, I'll bet. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 03:44:37 1998 Sat, 2 May 1998 16:44:30 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japan On Fri, 1 May 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Tony,I agree-there's room for all of us in here and the english teacherobviously enjoys being "the little grasshopper" .I'd have given my rightarmto have been in his shoes some years ago (well, maybe not the wholearm).Hank. I envy him a little. To behave in that way here in Australia would be certifiable but it's nice to get realy wraped up in something. That's something you just can't do once you're armed with stress curves and a mechanical perspective of the western approach. Actually, I don't see the scientific approach as being that different to the mystical one but from a differnt angle.Basicaly I think it's a shame to rain on somebody's parade and there are plenty of people around who'd wonder what planet we cane rod makers are from regardless as to if we just collect tapers we'll never make or chant a mantra while sharpening a plane iron :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from bc@fyptt.fyptt.zjpta.net.cn Sat May 2 04:08:24 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: Home grown List, Some people has asked me where he can buy good quality tonkin cane forflyrod making. Here I highly recommend Andy's cane to you.The qualityof his cane is really good, no slash marks, good drying and goodcolor.His pole is direct from the Chinese supplier, the only oneresource in China, who can specially select and process such Tonkin canewith no slash marks for flyrod. It is difficult to find out big tonkincane with no slash mark in tonkin originating place after the reform ofChinese farming system. To secure good quality cane, Andy always inperson come to China to select cane one by one and ship the container. Contact Andy at: E-mail:royera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx Cao QungenTel/Fax:++86 571 3341953 http://www.bamboo.org/abs/BambooChinaService.html from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 06:15:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0BC44200BC; Sat, 02 May 1998 05:17:16 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers At 12:45 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:On Thursday, May 7th at 8:00 PM there will be a gathering of rodmakers intheChicago area at Coren's Rod and Reel (773)631-5202 in Norwood hts. Justaninformal meet-n-greet and share ideas, cast rods etc. Call Eric HeckmanatCoren's for more details. Rob Hoffhines Rob;That figures, I move away from the accursed city, and the next thing Iknowthere is a rodmakers gathering there. Still not enough to get me to goback.Have fun! John Channer(now living in)Durango,Co. from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 06:23:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A28044D00BC; Sat, 02 May 1998 05:24:48 MDT Subject: Flamed rods Hi guys;I am working on my first flamed rod and I have a question. Should I goahead and heat treat it when I get it roughed out? Will this be too muchheating and make the cane brittle, or is it a can't/won't hurt thing? Ilike the fact that heat treating finishes straightening, but I don't wantto damage the cane. TIA for any suggestions. John Channer from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat May 2 06:35:22 1998 Subject: Blackening snake guides -- Clemens Has anyone used the black snakes that Dale Clemens sells? He claims thattheywon't groove "like regular black snakes". Cost is $0.95 per snake. --Rich from SealRite@aol.com Sat May 2 07:12:24 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Bill Gates visited an old firm called Xerox in the late seventies or earlyeighties. He was contracted by Apple computer to write a new opertaingsystem.Xerox had terminated and shelved a project designed to automate theworkplace. Xeros's project had computers that had push button icons, draganddrop file structure, something called e mail, etc. It was designed by abunchof "futurists" that had a vision, unfortunately it was not shared by Xerox. Bill basically stole the whole concept of windows from steveobg@nacs.net Sat May 2 07:16:00 1998 Subject: Re: What have I found? flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: Steve, I popped this off the best online web site for production rodinformation - Dick Spurr's "The Classic Angler" url:http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm 9*' 5 oz. Model 170 Tournament $3009' 4 oz. Model 159 Tournament $325 I don't see any 8'6" tournament rods listed. If you are correct in the major rod list people. Too bad you stripped it already - this might be a"special" rod and a collector would've wanted it "as-is". Prices shownare all based upon a rod in excellent original condition. See the URL Thank Dick Spurr for the url too, Don Burns Don, and all who repliedThanks for the reply, Those prices certainly made me blink...However, I don't think THIS rod will go up for sale, as my son (12 Yrs) hasexpressed an interest in it. -Like he could pry it out of my hands with acrowbar.Now I have to go see if I misread my tape measure... Regards,-Steve-O ---Looking foreward to building a bamboo rod from the begining...--- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 07:54:02 1998 Sat, 2 May 1998 20:53:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Fri, 1 May 1998, Golden Witch wrote: Gary, You need to buy Jack Howell's book "The Lovely Reed." He's got asection of about 50 tapers, most miked out by Daryll Whitehead, and theyinclude a 7'6" Gillum among a total of 10 Gillum tapers. I'd just give youthe taper, but I don't know where I'd stand with Jack & his publisher if Idid. Anyway, the book is worth every penny of it cost, probably more. CallBarry Serviente at The Angler's Art to order a copy. Phone: (800) 848-1020. Read & enjoy, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from gwr@seanet.com Sat May 2 08:20:48 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA15404 for; Subject: Re: In Search Of... Tony, They don't have one listed in the (older) catalog I've got so I checkedwith a few search engines but still no luck. They do have a fax (717)243-8603, but nothing as quick & inexpensive as the internet. You canreachthem by snail at:The Angler's ArtP.O. Box 148Plainfield, PA 17081 Russ Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 08:39:30 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A26739600E4; Sat, 02 May 1998 07:40:55 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 06:16 AM 5/2/98 -0700, you wrote:Tony, They don't have one listed in the (older) catalog I've got so I checkedwith a few search engines but still no luck. They do have a fax (717)243-8603, but nothing as quick & inexpensive as the internet. You canreachthem by snail at:The Angler's ArtP.O. Box 148Plainfield, PA 17081 Russ Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat May 2 08:43:34 1998 Subject: Re: Flamed rods John: I have always used normal heat treating procedures on my flamedcane.Has had no adverse results that I can see.Regards,Richard Tyree from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat May 2 10:00:30 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sat,2May 1998 11:02:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I enjoyed talking with you last night. I hope I answered all of your questions. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sat May 2 11:05:19 1998 Subject: What have I found? Steve-The Cross Rod & Tackle Co. started in 1920 with Wes Jordan as headrodbuilder. They made three models available in different sizes andconfigurations...the Cross, the Forsyth, and the Essex. In 1924 The Crosssaltwater rod was double built but the Forsyth and Essex were singlebuilt.The Forsyth was the more expensive of the singlebuilt rods and thetournament models built for distance casting. The bamboo under the reelseat was lightened and the reel seat made out of very thin nickelsilver tosave weight so as not to exceed the weight limit for tournament casting.The Cross co. was sold to South Bend in the mid 20's. I don't think SouthBend used the Forsyth name on the rods they made under the Cross label.Soyou probably have a Wes Jordan built 8.5' designed for distance casting from the early 1920's. I'd guess it would restore to a nice or at leastinteresting rod. Regards, Dennisp.s. find a copy of "Wes Jordan-Profile Of A Rodmaker" for a completehistory of Wes and Cross rods. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat May 2 11:58:22 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sat,2May 1998 13:00:08 -0400 Subject: Re: HELP!! Did you ever get the scraper? I sent it out a while back.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277- 9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat May 2 12:07:32 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA05045 for Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers Nodewrrior wrote: On Thursday, May 7th at 8:00 PM there will be a gathering of rodmakersin theChicago area at Coren's Rod and Reel (773)631-5202 in Norwood hts.Just aninformal meet-n-greet and share ideas, cast rods etc. Call Eric HeckmanatCoren's for more details. Rob HoffhinesRob, I heard about this meeting and called thereyesterday(Fri.)Bill told me that they would start at 6:30 PM.Double check with Eric. I'm looking forward to meeting some of the local guys and sharing experiences. Hope to see ya there, Ed Miller from rennyg@ibm.net Sat May 2 12:21:00 1998 out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA39330 for; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:20:57 GMT Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Sorry about the confusion with the analogy using two types of wood. Therationalebehind using different species of wood was that, unlike bamboo, itappears thatdifferent cell sizes in wood are pretty much randomly distributedthroughout thematerial. Thus one would expect wood strength of a given species to notto varymuch from one area to another. Bamboo, on the other hand, even within thepowerfiber area, exhibits a distinct change in cell size from interior toexterior,with a much higher density (smaller cells) toward the outside of the culm. I'm undoubtedly splitting more hairs here than cane, so I apologize for thebandwidth.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... You lost me with your comparison between oak and cottonwood.A better comparison would be between larger cells and smallercells within the same piece of oak. from cbogart@shentel.net Sat May 2 12:21:16 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... TonyTry Amazon.com - got my copy from them this week. Chris On Sat, 2 May 1998 20:53:52 +0800 (WST), Tony Young wrote: On Fri, 1 May 1998, Golden Witch wrote: Gary, You need to buy Jack Howell's book "The Lovely Reed." He's got asection of about 50 tapers, most miked out by Daryll Whitehead, andtheyinclude a 7'6" Gillum among a total of 10 Gillum tapers. I'd just giveyouthe taper, but I don't know where I'd stand with Jack & his publisher if Idid. Anyway, the book is worth every penny of it cost, probably more. CallBarry Serviente at The Angler's Art to order a copy. Phone: (800) 848-1020. Read & enjoy, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Regards Chris from rmoon@ida.net Sat May 2 12:39:17 1998 Subject: Thanks To all of those of you who contributed some while ago to the thread onblade angles. I guess that even an old dog can learn new tricks. Ihave traditionally set my blade angle about 25 degrees, and waspleasantly surprised when the hock blade made planing even easier. Acouple of days ago, I ground one of my stock blades to about 32degrees. It performs even better than the hock. I simply cannotunderstand why such a miute difference in blade angle can cause such aradical difference in the ease of planing. To all of you again mysincere thanks. Ralph Moon from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat May 2 13:00:53 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sat,2May 1998 14:02:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides Wow...I have never had a problem with the H&H guides. Then again, I haven't been doing this all that long. I will have to take a look at the bronze guide on of these days. Right now I am trying to figure out what snake guides one would use with a N/S Mildrum stripping guide. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat May 2 13:14:55 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... I just bought a new book that I think is a great book.It is called Classic &Antique Tackle by A.J. cambell. It gives the complete history of rods and reels from the begining to todays tackle and builders.It is very interesting reading. Thebook sells for $50.00 ,But can be purchased from Amazon.com books for$35.00. Dave L. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat May 2 13:28:00 1998 Subject: Re: Re: What have I found? Cross rod There is a gentelman here in so. Bend that had two Cross rods in brand newnever fished condition I bought and sold one but I think he still has theother one.bret from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat May 2 13:40:08 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA44932 Subject: Sv: Flamed rods NAA18000 Hi guys;I am working on my first flamed rod and I have a question. Should I goahead and heat treat it when I get it roughed out? Will this be too muchheating and make the cane brittle, or is it a can't/won't hurt thing? Ilike the fact that heat treating finishes straightening, but I don't wantto damage the cane. TIA for any suggestions. John Channer John, we are talking religion here. I'll risc my neck in saying: Go ahead,flameon. PHY flamed his rods until almost black in places, and from the 2 PHYrodsI've tried, it works. I've always flamed rods on the outside alone, butsome,also before splitting into strips, use the heatgun on the inside as well.Forstraightening, use the heatgun, as it won't burn the bamboo. You could gonodeless, saving Yourself a lot of time, since straightening is reducedconsiderably. If You flame too much, make a carbon rod instead regards Carsten from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat May 2 13:55:58 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07959 for Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers john channer wrote: At 12:45 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:On Thursday, May 7th at 8:00 PM there will be a gathering of rodmakersin theChicago area at Coren's Rod and Reel (773)631-5202 in Norwood hts.Just aninformal meet-n-greet and share ideas, cast rods etc. Call Eric HeckmanatCoren's for more details. Rob Hoffhines Rob;That figures, I move away from the accursed city, and the next thing Iknowthere is a rodmakers gathering there. Still not enough to get me to goback.Have fun! John Channer(now living in)Durango,Co.John, what didnt you like about Chicago? Traffic? Road rage?Pollution? Too far to drive to find trout? Expensive housing? Lousy weather? At least its only a few hrs. to Wisc. and Michigan. Ed M. from rmoon@ida.net Sat May 2 13:59:25 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Flamed rods Carsten, Tell me more about those carbon rods. The time I tried tomake them in my steel pipe blow torch scientific heat treater, theyburst into flame when I opened the plug. Did I do something wrong?Ralph from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 14:13:29 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0A93D500DA; Sat, 02 May 1998 13:14:49 MDT Subject: Re: Sv: Flamed rods OAA20327 At 08:40 PM 5/2/98 +0200, you wrote: Hi guys;I am working on my first flamed rod and I have a question. Should I goahead and heat treat it when I get it roughed out? Will this be too muchheating and make the cane brittle, or is it a can't/won't hurt thing? Ilike the fact that heat treating finishes straightening, but I don't wantto damage the cane. TIA for any suggestions. John Channer John, we are talking religion here. I'll risc my neck in saying: Go ahead,flame on. PHY flamed his rods until almost black in places, and from the 2PHY rods I've tried, it works. I've always flamed rods on the outsidealone, but some, also before splitting into strips, use the heatgun on theinside as well. For straightening, use the heatgun, as it won't burn thebamboo. You could go nodeless, saving Yourself a lot of time, sincestraightening is reduced considerably. If You flame too much, make a carbon rod instead regards Carsten Carsten;I don't know what kind of heat gun you are using, but my cheapo 2 speedwill turn anything flammable into charcoal if you're not carefull, I'veburned thru more than one strip with it. It is still better than an alcohollamp. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 14:28:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4133FB00DA; Sat, 02 May 1998 13:29:23 MDT Subject: Chicago rodmakers Ed;All of the above, plus.Don't forget the wonderful gangs and non- existentcrime rate, it even followed us out to the corn fields between Chi andRockford. I lived in Chicago area all my life, until 3 years ago when wecame out here on vacation, went home, fixed up the 120 yr old wreck, putiton the market and came out here to find a job.Now we're Rocky MountainHighand will never come down, its great!Only one problem; too many rivers andnot enough time.Flip someone off on the Edens for me, but don't forget toduck if they shoot back. John Channer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat May 2 14:33:23 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago rodmakers John, I ran some SOB off on the Dan Ryan for you a while back.Bret from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat May 2 15:41:33 1998 Subject: TTBBBQ IV & Rodmakers At Grayrock 98 TTBBBQ IV. The flier advertises the Makers Rod and explains the details ofTTBBBQ. I have been asked by a few list members about the get togetherand anycost factors. So here is the scoop. The $50 TTBBBQ fee for the Rodmakersgroup covers the cost of BOTH events TTBBBQ IV and Rodmakers AtGrayrock. TheRodmakers will still be having the Thursday night cookout at WhisperingPines(The Love Bugs - aka Frank Love's) - Friday night RoadKill Cookoff andHomeBrew Beer Taste - and commemorative aprons as usual.TTBBBQ is a fund raiser as well as a social event - last year there wasnearly $4000 raised for environment groups - a part of the admission feegoesto this end. Those involved in organizing TTBBBQ appreciate theCommitmentthat the Rodmakers have made with the Makers Rod Raffle and offeredthis.Another offering is that those wanting to bring their wives and kids toTTBBBQand Rodmakers At Grayrock the end cost for each will be $25 ($50 feewith $25instant cash rebate). On the organizational end the single fee structure will save several ofus some grief. Vic Edwards is taking registrations - TTBBBQ IV c\o VicEdwards, POBox 116, Grayling,MI 49738. For those that know that they areattending we would ask that you forward Vic the money by May 15, 1998 -ANDplease attach a note saying Rodmaker as well.Now, If you don't wish to be part of TTBBBQ IV and yet want to come toRodmakers At Grayrock 98 - JUST SHOW UP. There will be a bucket to put afewbucks in to help cover costs. Vic, Steve & et el are working hard to plan a special evening forTTBBBQIV - there will be the Makers Rod raffle which I'm sure will be exciting.As (tenative) is as follows Friday (June 19) Saturday(June 20)Fish or Make rodsSunday(June 21)Fish the Dead Stream Swamp - Beaver Pond Hunt - Bring Compass orGPS Monday(June 22)Fish or make rodsTuesday(June 23)Fish the Jordan - Camp out on the Jordan - Camp site on state land inheadwaters - bring marshmellows - campfire songs? Wednesday(June 24)Hands on workshop - culm to frist tapered strip (group 1)Fish the Jordan (am) - return to Clubhouse Thursday(June 25)Hands on Workshop - culm to first tapered strip (group 2)Evening - Cookout @ Frank's - Fish the Manistee Friday(June 26)Demarest Talk on BambooMill demos - working to get Morgan and Bellinger Sharpening table - a display of all stones holders and discussionIRS - Excise Tax TalkFlee Market & Swap - Sell - Trade - Swap - Dicker (no Ginsu knives)Afternoon hands on things (volunteers needed)Rodmakers Challenge CourseEast Branch Tribute to JJ - 5:00Evening Rodmakers RoadKill CookOff & HomeBrew Beer Taste Saturday(June 27)Round Table (all involved)Glue a ThonFinish a thonAdvance Hands on Break for TTBBBQ IV at 5:00 If you have any questions or comments about events or somethingspecificthat you would like to see or do please contact me - e mail -waynecatt@aol.com or phone 616-675-5894 (eve) Wayne from sats@gte.net Sat May 2 15:50:38 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! PAA24282 Are we talking about making a new rod, or altering an alreadyexisting rod? With a new rod, we can remove the outer enamel and go into the power fibers and still preserve the planned diameter of the blank. With an already existing rod, the only thingyou can do is reduce the diameter. In that case, yes you are goingto alter the action or line wt the rod casts. Lets figure out what weare doing here before we go any further. Exactly. Once a section has been "glued up" it's got a taper; diameter;line- wt.; action; and about 10 other ingredients. Removing cain from thereonout will change, to some degree, everyone of those factors. What happens to a rod section when you remove .001 from the outside ofthatsection? Will it bend easier? Will it break easier? Will it slow the action? Will it change the rod wt? These are questions that I don't think anyone has answered. I've neverseen itdiscussed here. I do know that the old masters would change the actions of rods to findnewtapers by taking a few .000 off the outside at one place or another. I remember, you telling of changing the "feel" of a rod, by removing a few.000,to make it roll cast better. I've been testing the results of removing cain from the outside (nevermorethen .005) to see what changes took place. I haven't had time to do enoughresearch to give any good answers yet. If anyone on the list can shed anylight on this, I'd be interested to hear it. --Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat May 2 15:51:56 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA57358 Subject: Sv: Sv: Flamed rods printable to 8bit by wugate.wustl.edu idPAA24372 Carsten, Tell me more about those carbon rods. The time I tried tomake them in my steel pipe blow torch scientific heat treater, theyburst into flame when I opened the plug. Did I do something wrong?Ralph Ralph, dont open your steel pipe blow torch scientific heat treater untileverything have cooled down. Lotsa heat plus oxygen means fire from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 17:10:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AA3342300C8; Sat, 02 May 1998 16:12:03 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago rodmakers At 03:32 PM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:John, I ran some SOB off on the Dan Ryan for you a while back.Bret Bret;I'm sure he had it coming to him. Out here about all we have to deal withon the roads are deer, elk, and Winnebagos. The deer and elk are smarterthan most drivers in Chicago, and the ones on the North Shore are evenworse.Winnebagos are only a problem between Memorial Day and Labor Day.Igladly leave to you my share of the traffic jambs. John Channer from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat May 2 17:21:07 1998 ; Sun, 3 May 1998 10:21:00 +1200 Subject: Re: In Search Of... I would endorse Dave's comments . A very interesting book and veryaccessible via Amazon even to the more remote ( and desirable ) parts oftheplanet . A lot of the information is USA based but more then enough in the book forme to consider it excellent buying as a souce of information on both reelsand rods . Iank At 02:14 PM 2/05/98 EDT, you wrote:I just bought a new book that I think is a great book.It is called Classic &Antique Tackle by A.J. cambell. It gives the complete history of rods and reels from the begining to todays tackle and builders.It is very interesting reading.Thebook sells for $50.00 ,But can be purchased from Amazon.com books for$35.00. Dave L. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat May 2 19:15:10 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers John,This will be my first summer away from the Aspen music festival in 7years. Imay be joining you in leaving this trout desert.Any good orchestras in Durango? Rob Hoffhines from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 19:55:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0AC5CB00B6; Sat, 02 May 1998 18:56:12 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers At 08:14 PM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:John,This will be my first summer away from the Aspen music festival in 7years. Imay be joining you in leaving this trout desert.Any good orchestras in Durango? Rob Hoffhines Rob;My daughter plays flute and oboe in the DHS band and orchestra, so thatsthe main one I know of, but I have heard that the San Juan Symphony isverygood. I have also heard the Fort Lewis College orchestra and they aregood,also, but I get the impression that you are a proffessional, so that'sprobably not much use to you. Try Denver, but live up in the mountainsaway from the city. John Channer from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 2 20:41:34 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening snake guides -- Clemens In a message dated 98-05-02 07:39:39 EDT, you write: Rich, No. But, I believe Clemens buys lots of their stuff and relabel it as their own.IE Clemens cork restorer vs the U40 stuff. Therefore, a total seat-of-the- pants guess is that they're Pacific Bay guides. I've been thinking about ordering a few myself - just to test my theory. IMHO, Don Burns from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat May 2 21:05:22 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod Dear Chris It's an idea with merit: at least I hope it is, as it's one on which I'vespent some time in recent years. There are many old mediocre rods whichwillnever have much value and need a rebuild anyway so, like, why not? I justhope we don't destroy all the good old nine-footers because shorter rodsarede rigeur right now- some of the long ones are great, and will do thingstheshorter ones can't. It's like violins- and Patrick Coffey will bear me out on this, I'm sure.Guys like Stradivari, Guarneri and Bergonzi made fiddles with short necks,elegant ornamentation and subtle dynamic nuance to best express theBaroquemusic of their day. Along comes the Romantic era and virtually all the good old master fiddlesgetliterally butchered to make them usable for the louder, more dynamicworks ofcats like Beethoven and Wagner. Even today, when an old, original violinsurfaces on the market, most people will automatically splice on a new,longerneck, rebrace it and "update" it because that makes it more valuable to amodern musician. But now there is a greater appreciation for older music, with RenaissanceandBaroque ensembles appearing all over the world, and there are a lot ofpeoplewho would kill for a really original Strad. Unfortunately though, theydon'texist. Actually, I think there is one viola, but that is only because itresides in a major museum and probably can't be sold. Sorry about that. Meanwhile, back at the planing form... My suggestion is to start on the lower section(s) first, get the generalflexabout like you want it, then do whatever it is you think would improve thetip, rather than just thin the entire length of the rod right off the bat. Thelatter method will, likely as not, produce a result you don't like and can'teasily remedy. And be sure to use the planing form, to ensure that the splines come outrelatively even. All the best,Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat May 2 21:10:00 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting This is a little different from the current thread but... A few days ago, somebody was talking about tapers for Spey rods. I've got a good one, a thirteen-foot Gale, and I'd be happy to supply thetaper if anyone is interested. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat May 2 21:18:12 1998 Subject: sharkskin Is anybody familiar with an abrasive made by Sandvik called "Sharkskin"orsomething like that? It's a thin self-adhesive metal sheet with a uniform pattern of pin- prickswhich do the sanding. I picked up a couple sheets of coarse-grain but Iwonder if they also make fine. Has anybody used this for rodmaking? Any impressions/observations? Once this stuff is stuck to a level block, it'll almost level like a plane. Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 21:20:05 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 10:19:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... Russ,thanks for that. Tony On Sat, 2 May 1998, Golden Witch wrote: Tony, They don't have one listed in the (older) catalog I've got so I checkedwith a few search engines but still no luck. They do have a fax (717)243-8603, but nothing as quick & inexpensive as the internet. You canreachthem by snail at:The Angler's ArtP.O. Box 148Plainfield, PA 17081 Russ Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 21:51:43 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 10:51:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... /***** snip'd bit's re The lovely Reed and it's availability *******/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer I've seen it listed at Amazom.com for $US35.00 but they don't yet have stocks. Hate to mention anything as crass as money but the puney $AUST makes that a $AUST 25 (approx) dollar diff in the price. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 21:53:58 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 10:53:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sat, 2 May 1998, Chris Bogart wrote: TonyTry Amazon.com - got my copy from them this week. Chris I tried them yesterday but they listed it as not in stock. Guess they haven't updated it yet. Thanks, I'll give my VISA a thrashing right now. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 21:59:33 1998 Subject: Re: Re: HELP!! I did-thanks, Jon.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 21:59:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japan Hey, TonyI didn't know you blokes were so uptight about emotion-heck, I wascertifiable the day I was born and haven't improved one iota since.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 21:59:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Renny,If you are seeing a definate gradation in power fiber within the areathatwill constitute the rod you wish to plane find a better culm and use thatculm for a lighter rod.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 22:00:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Flamed rods John,I don't use a heat gun to flame -I use a standard propane torch on mySTRIPS before planing-my 2 stage heat gun would light up the cane unlessI'mvery careful, which I ain't.Regards Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 22:01:37 1998 Subject: Re: Flamed rods John and Carsten,I've flamed outside alone, inside-outside alone, and both with addedheattreatment. I, frankly ,can't quantify any difference although I did cook onetoo much and gave it to a young friend whose father took her to the BigHornwhere the guide broke it-(Ralph-note-that's not how to make carbon rods).Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 22:01:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Flamed rods Raiph,Too much O2- use NO2 as a medium. ;-)Hank. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat May 2 22:17:53 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers John,Denver had a trombone aud. a few years ago, they picked the local guy...so Igotta wait for somebody to retire, get kicked out or die.My fiancee wants to know if your daughter wants a flute teacher.Figures the only thing I like nearly as much as music generates even less$$$! Rob from wrightj@babe.net.au Sat May 2 23:03:18 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers Nodewrrior wrote: John,This will be my first summer away from the Aspen music festival in 7years. Imay be joining you in leaving this trout desert.Any good orchestras in Durango? Rob HoffhinesSomehow I am receiving this mail I am not John from Rodmakers but did go see Billy Pate last night here in Asuteralia not sure about Durango or its orchestrasa from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat May 2 23:32:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: In Search Of... Pruett says they don't mind selling to us but they prefer to have thedealerssell it. I first ordered from them and found out Barry at anglers had it so Icalled Pruett to check availability and told them i did biz with Anglersandthey said i should buy from him. Guys I have had nothing but the bestservice from Anglers and I encourage you all to buy form them. 1-800-848- 1020.Bret from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 23:37:10 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 12:36:58 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japan On Sat, 2 May 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Hey, TonyI didn't know you blokes were so uptight about emotion-heck, I wascertifiable the day I was born and haven't improved one iota since.Hank. Hank,we're not realy, at least I'm not. Guess I just kind of enjoyed the exercise. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 00:05:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AB5264800B6; Sat, 02 May 1998 23:06:26 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 10:51 AM 5/3/98 +0800, you wrote: /***** snip'd bit's re The lovely Reed and it's availability *******/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer I've seen it listed at Amazom.com for $US35.00 but they don't yet have stocks. Hate to mention anything as crass as money but the puney $AUST makes that a $AUST 25 (approx) dollar diff in the price. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony;Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. I wonderhow Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for the bumsteer. John Channer from SalarFly@aol.com Sun May 3 01:38:13 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! In a message dated 5/2/98 1:54:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sats@gte.netwrites: Exactly. Once a section has been "glued up" it's got a taper; diameter;line- wt.; action; and about 10 other ingredients. Removing cain fromthereonout will change, to some degree, everyone of those factors. I believe the original poster was discussing planing splines, notaltering an existing rod, but when I make a rod I plan on removingat least .001 from the blank after it is glued up. Hence I make theblank that much oversize. Lately I have been planing off the enamelside of my splines for appearance before glue up. Haven't noticed any difference in strength, but a much improved appearance. What happens to a rod section when you remove .001 from the outside ofthatsection? Will it bend easier? Will it break easier? Will it slow the action? Will it change the rod wt? Yes to all the above, but depending on what the original rod was,maybe not much to even be noticed. A heavier line wt rod will beaffected less than a lighter line wt rod. An analysis usingstress curves will answer most of these questions. These are questions that I don't think anyone has answered. I've never seen itdiscussed here. Maybe not all at the same time, but it has been in one form oranother. I do know that the old masters would change the actions of rods to findnewtapers by taking a few .000 off the outside at one place or another. Yes, some did, they called it tuning the rod. I remember, you telling of changing the "feel" of a rod, by removing afew.000,to make it roll cast better. Yes to this also. One of my experimental tapers. I ended up removing.010 from a 10 inch section of the butt section. It was a drastic removalof material (at least I think so), to get any kind of discernable changein the action. I've been testing the results of removing cain from the outside (nevermorethen .005) to see what changes took place. I haven't had time to doenoughresearch to give any good answers yet. If anyone on the list can shedanylight on this, I'd be interested to hear it. I think we will have to start talking about percentages of removedmaterialto diameter to make any sense. .005 of bamboo removed closer to the tip will have a lot more effect than .005 removed near the handle. Again, an understanding of stress curves will help a great deal here. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 02:15:11 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 15:14:43 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sat, 2 May 1998, john channer wrote: At 10:51 AM 5/3/98 +0800, you wrote: /***** snip'd bit's re The lovely Reed and it's availability *******/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer I've seen it listed at Amazom.com for $US35.00 but they don't yet have stocks. Hate to mention anything as crass as money but the puney $AUST makes that a $AUST 25 (approx) dollar diff in the price. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony;Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. Iwonderhow Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for the bumsteer. John Channer It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun May 3 06:29:47 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... RO>> Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. IwondeRO>> how Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for the bumsteer.RO>>RO>> John Channer RO>It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. RO>Tony John, Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustments ever72.7 mm? from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 06:30:07 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A58B67600B6; Sun, 03 May 1998 05:31:23 MDT Subject: humblest apology Tony;I am bent over, please kick me. I should never respond right after theevening nap. My most humble apology.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 07:28:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A32149F00D2; Sun, 03 May 1998 06:29:21 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 04:28 AM 5/3/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>> Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. IwondeRO>> how Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for thebumsteer.RO>>RO>> John Channer RO>It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. RO>Tony John, Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustments ever72.7 mm? Don;Metric is one new trick this old dog will resist to the bitter end. I am acarpenter and metric would be a big pain, besides, I make enough mistakeswith the system I am used to. I apologized to Tony for presuming tocorrecthis math, I sometimes forget that anyone in the world is better at maththan I am. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why put afull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. John (confused by the world, as usual)Channer from sats@gte.net Sun May 3 09:11:37 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod JAA05405 It's like violins- and Patrick Coffey will bear me out on this, I'm sure.Guys like Stradivari, Guarneri and Bergonzi made fiddles with shortnecks,elegant ornamentation and subtle dynamic nuance to best express theBaroquemusic of their day. Along comes the Romantic era and virtually all the good old masterfiddles getliterally butchered to make them usable for the louder, more dynamicworks ofcats like Beethoven and Wagner. I agree, and don't try to "shorten" a rod that has all pieces full length. It'slike making a hot-rod out of a perfectly maintained '32 ford. Once the topischopped it's hard to go back. However, there are plenty of rods out there with tips and mid sectionsthat arebroken (dare I say mangled) The glue may be letting go and the ferrulesare amess. In my opinion, they're candidates for experimentation. My suggestion is to start on the lower section(s) first, get the generalflexabout like you want it, then do whatever it is you think would improvethetip, rather than just thin the entire length of the rod right off the bat.Thelatter method will, likely as not, produce a result you don't like and can'teasily remedy. You're right here, at least in the idea of having a method to your madness. I've experimented some with rebuilding a few rods. (I have a ton of rodsthatare missing tips, or have tips 13" long!) Just taking .002 off the rod all the way along it's surface, won't do it. removingan inch or two from one or more section. (most rods I come across are"dimensionally challenged") So the question is, where to make the cuts? I can cut at the butt trying to keep the smaller tip end which means thatI'lldo less sanding to remove outside diameter. I can try to preserve the action by cutting a little off each end, thensandingthe whole thing. I can even everything up by removing extra length from the Tip end, whichwillmake the rod stiffer. All three with DRAMATICLY change the action. All three will require different amounts of sanding in different places tokeep from getting a stress curve that looks something like the results of theL.A.earthquake on the Richter scale. I Built a sanding block with outriggers, to keep it level, much like the idea flatsurface to work on. I use different grits of sandpaper. (I occasionally scrape, but am doinglessand less of it. I check my work as often as I would if I were finishing a strip of bamboo. I'm working on a way of Controlling what I'm doing, so it's not hit andmiss. So far I've discovered that a little goes a long way. One other thing. Look at the end section of the bamboo before you start.As Darryl has said, there's Bamboo and there's bamboo. If the power fibersseemto run out toward the center, then even LESS removing of the outer fiberswillcause a Larger impact. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun May 3 09:45:10 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sun,3May 1998 10:46:56 -0400 Subject: Re: 1998 Grand Gathering, Sat., May 23 and Sun., May 24, 1998 Did you get the message a while back from me? I wanted to know if anyone was doing a glue-up or a nodeless talk. Are you all giving out any door prizes? I would be willing to give you a splice block to give away if you want. Take care... camping in the Elora Gorge area. Is there a chance you can fish or can put me in touch with some people who would like to? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun May 3 10:00:51 1998 Subject: Re: Still In Search Of... Rob,Yes, I would like this taper. I guess I'll just have to wait for moreofPinky's tapers, until my book arrives (I have been waiting for more than amonth now, as I refuse to pay publisher prices). Thanks to all for yourresponses.As to A.J.'s 7'9" taper, I did throw a bit of line with the guides tapedin place, I couldn't help myself. My first impression was -I Like It- butit's not for everyone. It is a bit slower than I thought it was going tobe. (I did not, and have not, run a stress curve on it.) My initialreaction was that it will take the right caster to make it perform the wayit should. (ie. do not let just any fool use it: it's not going to comeback in the same condition.) After I have a chance to fish it I'll giveyou an up-date. Please remember this comes from a couple casts with theguides taped on. Gary H. At 10:20 PM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:Gary, I have a good 8' 6wt 2pc taper of Pinky's. I built it as a big trout rod butit throws the IL sized bass hairbugs admirably. The stress curve issimlisarto that of the Payne parabolic in the archives(!).I plan to do A.J.'s 7'9" next for a client, please tell me how yours turnedout, I'd love to hear! I just taped guides on a Driggs and casted it...whatacool action!! I'm curious to see how she fishes! Rob Hoffhines from Canerods@aol.com Sun May 3 10:30:20 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... In a message dated 98-05-03 08:33:16 EDT, you write: John, The mark-up on books is huge - Crown books (nat. bookstore chain) offersa 10%discount on all of their books. I have a discount card for Waldon bookstorethat gives me a discount there too. But if I buy a paperback novel or otherbooks at the local Costco warehouse club store I get them at about 50% oflist. The latest Tom Clancy book was $3.95 vs $7.95 suggested list price, Ithink. So all Amazon is doing is discounting from list price to increase theirvolume(low overhead business - no retail stores), while the publisher is sellingtoyou at list. (Doesn't want to sell retail and sticks it to you for theinconvenience?) But the profit is so high on any business that does comein -why not advertise? Try buying spackplugs through your local new car dealer - think they'll becheap? Will they sell them to you - heck yes. Check out a Barnes Noble or Super Crown bookstore in your town - I'll bettheydiscount special orders too. Don Burns from longroge@isu.edu Sun May 3 11:32:53 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting Davy, I'm always interested in tapers for two-handers. After I get someexperience making 7 to 9 footers I'd like to focus on spey rods for a while. In themeantime I'm trying to accumulate some tapers and ones that come with arecommendation areespecially nice to have. Thanks,Roger Davy wrote This is a little different from the current thread but... A few days ago, somebody was talking about tapers for Spey rods. I've got a good one, a thirteen-foot Gale, and I'd be happy to supply thetaper if anyone is interested. Davy from saltwein@swbell.net Sun May 3 12:13:35 1998 gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net MAA09965 Subject: Re: In Search Of... . Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. Let's see. Amazon.com buys a thousand copies from Pruett at $20 a copy(maybe as low as $18), then sells them at $35 a copy. Not a bad profitmargin! Pruett takes out a full page ad so that Amazon.com will buy 1000 (ormore copies). We see it for thity-five at amazon.com (or $40 at localstore) and think "What a deal" and bingo Visa cards are ringing up allover. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun May 3 12:28:38 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sun,3May 1998 13:30:26 -0400 Subject: Parabolics I just finished my first parabolic, and I am concerned about the dangers in casting (if there are any). There was a recent comment about not leaving a parabolic in the hands of an inexperienced caster. Why is this? What is the timing issues? I guess I am jus overwhelmingly confused. The rod has a couple more coats of varnish on the wraps to go and then i find out for myself I guessJon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun May 3 13:00:24 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod In a message dated 98-05-03 10:15:54 EDT, you write: Terry - I am looking for a good Granger n/s uplock reel seat. Any chanceyouhave a discard butt section with one attached you'd consider parting with? Ifso, please let me know.Thanks and Regards,Richard Tyree from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sun May 3 13:02:50 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AE7898E0274; Sun, 03 May 1998 10:50:48 PST Subject: Re: Parabolics Jon, would you leave any of your rods in inexperienced hands. Trueparabolics are slow action rods so unless the caster has enoughexperienceto feel the rod work they have trouble waiting to let the rod do the work -----Original Message----- Subject: Parabolics I just finished my first parabolic, and I am concerned about thedangers in casting (if there are any). There was a recent commentabout not leaving a parabolic in the hands of an inexperiencedcaster. Why is this? What is the timing issues? I guess I am jusoverwhelmingly confused. The rod has a couple more coats of varnishon the wraps to go and then i find out for myself I guessJon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from rennyg@ibm.net Sun May 3 14:10:52 1998 out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA45284 for; Sun, 3 May 1998 19:10:48 GMT Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Hank,Thanks for the response. It forced me take a closer look at the culm I hadbeenviewing as well as the 3 others I have on hand. Upon closer inspectionwith themost powerful magnifying glass I own, I now believe part, but not all, ofwhat Ihad been observing as a change in gradation of cell size was an opticalillusion. What I noticed this time was that although the cell size doesappearto become smaller toward the outside of the culm, the more significantchange isthat cells become darker with each successive layer. The interior of theinnercells is almost completely the color of the pith, with each successivelayer ofcells toward the outside exhibiting less & less of the light color. However, ifthe change in color is indicative of greater fiber strength (??), then theremaystill be some question as to the advisability of removing material fromtheoutside of the culm, thereby begging the original question.Renny FISHWOOL wrote: Renny,If you are seeing a definate gradation in power fiber within the areathatwill constitute the rod you wish to plane find a better culm and use thatculm for a lighter rod.Regards,Hank. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun May 3 14:51:55 1998 Subject: Re: TTBBBQ IV & Rodmakers At Grayrock 98 Yet further explaination - In years past there has always been a certainamount of trading and selling at the get togethers. This years it has beenrecommended that it is formalized. That is - set up tables and let anyonethatwants display whatever. The example that comes to mind is what the localTUchapter does each spring - a swap meet of sorts - clean out the closet oftheitems that you wish to recycle and bring them along - but let's limit it tofly fishing and rod making interests. Now whose turn is it to get the rodthisyear - Chris or Reed???? from saltwein@swbell.net Sun May 3 17:20:29 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net RAA20375 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 17:46:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A40810100BE; Sun, 03 May 1998 16:47:36 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 11:29 AM 5/3/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-05-03 08:33:16 EDT, you write: carpenter and metric would be a big pain, besides, I make enoughmistakeswith the system I am used to. I apologized to Tony for presuming tocorrecthis math, I sometimes forget that anyone in the world is better at maththan I am. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. John (confused by the world, as usual)Channer John, The mark-up on books is huge - Crown books (nat. bookstore chain) offersa10%discount on all of their books. I have a discount card for Waldon bookstorethat gives me a discount there too. But if I buy a paperback novel or otherbooks at the local Costco warehouse club store I get them at about 50%oflist. The latest Tom Clancy book was $3.95 vs $7.95 suggested list price,Ithink. So all Amazon is doing is discounting from list price to increase theirvolume(low overhead business - no retail stores), while the publisher is sellingtoyou at list. (Doesn't want to sell retail and sticks it to you for theinconvenience?) But the profit is so high on any business that does comein -why not advertise? Try buying spackplugs through your local new car dealer - think they'll becheap? Will they sell them to you - heck yes. Check out a Barnes Noble or Super Crown bookstore in your town - I'll bettheydiscount special orders too. Don Burns Don;I am scaring myself, I think I am getting used to paying more foreveything here. Durango is not on the way to anywhere from anywhere, soanything that comes here makes a special trip, thereby driving cost up.When gas in Albuqueque was down to .96 , we were still paying 1.29 and itdidn't come down until every radio station in the area was screaming atmaxoutput about it. Thanks everyone for telling me about Amazon, just ordered from them this morning, if it takes a month, I'll still be here.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 17:51:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A53810C00BE; Sun, 03 May 1998 16:52:40 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 12:15 PM 5/3/98 -0700, you wrote:. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. Let's see. Amazon.com buys a thousand copies from Pruett at $20 a copy(maybe as low as $18), then sells them at $35 a copy. Not a bad profitmargin! Pruett takes out a full page ad so that Amazon.com will buy 1000 (ormore copies). We see it for thity-five at amazon.com (or $40 at localstore) and think "What a deal" and bingo Visa cards are ringing up allover. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO I guess that's why I'm a nail pounder instead of in the add game ormarketing, just not devious enough. I sometimes loose sight of the factthat the root word of marketing is "mark", altho marketers will tell youits market.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun May 3 18:34:58 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... RO>Don;RO> I am scaring myself, I think I am getting used to paying more forRO>eveything here. Durango is not on the way to anywhere from anywhere,soRO>anything that comes here makes a special trip, thereby driving cost up.RO>When gas in Albuqueque was down to .96 , we were still paying 1.29and itRO>didn't come down until every radio station in the area was screamingat maxRO>output about it. Thanks everyone for telling me about Amazon, justorderedRO> from them this morning, if it takes a month, I'll still be here.RO>John Channer John, Just remember: LA's crime, LA's smog, LA's freeways and LA's 11 to 12 million people.(in the greater LA area) See, doesn't Durango sound better and better? Don PS - We pay ~$1.20 for phase II anti-smog bilge-crap regular-gradegasoline out here in LA-LA land. OBTW, phase II = 10% less fuel economyover phase I, which is in turn about 5% - 10% less than the good oldstuff. Anyone else remember 12:1 compression sport cars, Sunoco 260 or ExxonSuper Extra. (both ~120 octane?) Plus where's my #@#@$#% S&H greenstamps, my free NFL football glass and how about a full-service station?Cheap gas my butt! from gwr@seanet.com Sun May 3 19:00:07 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19536 for; Subject: Trumpet/Bell Guide Source??? Hi all, Does anyone know of a source for nickel silver trumpet or bell guides?How about nickel silver tip tops with either three or four rings solderedtogether? If you'd like to move a personal collection, please contact meoff list. Thanks in advance. Russgwr@seanet.com from saweiss@flash.net Sun May 3 20:25:53 1998 Subject: Binding thread In my on-going search for rod-making stuff, today I found some thread attheflea market.Supposedly for stitching leather, hard, cotton, no fuzzies, about .022".Made by A. Lewis Thread Corp, NY. Label inside the spool reads "Morton 5CORD". Any comments on the suitability of this stuff for wrappingrough-planed sections for heat treating? It's probably too thick for glue-upof tip sections.Steve Weiss from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 21:25:46 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 10:25:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: humblest apology On Sun, 3 May 1998, john channer wrote: Tony;I am bent over, please kick me. I should never respond right after theevening nap. My most humble apology.John Channer Nothing to apologise for, not your fault we use Monopoly money over here.My big problem is that I have too damn much home brew to get through. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun May 3 21:27:44 1998 Subject: Re: A quick fix 4 the sine wave I just put guides on a taper that I worked out and test casted it. Ishould'veboosted the tip a few thou as the sine wave effect explained inGarrison/Carmichael appeared. Being a one piece, and having put a reelseatonit and what the heck, it's MY rod I put a cleared silk wrap between the tiptop and first snake wrap. It smoothed it out beautifully! NOT the kind ofthing I'd do on a rod I'd ever sell though! But it saved an experiment fromending up as a back scatcher... Rob Hoffhines from gwr@seanet.com Sun May 3 21:33:13 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23333 for; Subject: Heddon No. 1 Sport-Special I just received a 5' 2 pc. (offset ferrule) Heddon No. 1 Sport- Specialbaitcasting rod in need of restoration. This rod is in bad shape, but itwas the owner's father's rod and will, upon restoration, be passed on tohisdaughter - otherwise it would fall into the "why bother" category. Thefacsimile of Heddon's catalog on page 204 of Mike Sinclair's book,"Heddon...," shows a drawing of this rod. This rod was previously "re-finished" and the bright red silk on one guideseems to be all that was left of the original wraps. If anyone has moreinfo on the intermediates, decals, inscriptions, ferrule wraps &c., I wouldgreatly appreciate your input. There is no ghosting from the originalintermediates (assuming that there were original intermediates as in thecatalog drawing). I would be interested in purchasing or trading for any or all of thefollowing, all apparently of of nickel plated brass:The taper (winding check)The slide band with attached triggerThe reel seat If someone has loose Heddon baitcasting parts but you're not sure if theywere from this particular model, I'd be happy to give precisemeasurementsand descriptions. Thanks much, Russgwr@seanet.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 21:41:28 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 10:41:04 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sun, 3 May 1998, john channer wrote: Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustmentsever72.7 mm? Don;Metric is one new trick this old dog will resist to the bitter end. I am acarpenter and metric would be a big pain, besides, I make enoughmistakeswith the system I am used to. I apologized to Tony for presuming tocorrecthis math, I sometimes forget that anyone in the world is better at maththan I am. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. John (confused by the world, as usual)Channer Metric is very good to use but imperial has advantages. When boat building (huge engeneering concerns excepted) all pretty much everyone uses is imperial, a quarter inch is less precise sounding than 6mm and a foot is easier to imagine than 30cm for eg but when talking nuts and bolts you don't need to convert fractions so most go over to metric.Thou of an inch is a good size and it looks strange even to my eyes when I see the French dimensions in TPF, so it's all what you're accostomed to using. I guess I just round the centres off to 73mm :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun May 3 21:42:39 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... Agree, it is a very good book and I use it all the time. Mark Hallowell from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 21:52:51 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 10:52:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Parabolics On Sun, 3 May 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: I just finished my first parabolic, and I am concerned about the dangers in casting (if there are any). There was a recent comment about not leaving a parabolic in the hands of an inexperienced caster. Why is this? What is the timing issues? I guess I am jus overwhelmingly confused. The rod has a couple more coats of varnish on the wraps to go and then i find out for myself I guess Until you get the hang of it, you'll prob want to push the rod too hard as at first you'll find that in attempting longer casts the cast will collapse at about mid distance.As I make my rods nodeless, I have found on my one and only rod made with yellow glue (a disaster) my Father (Loomis user) cracked scarfs in the butt just above the cork.Keep in mind these rods do all the work and you have to learn how they work. Depending on what rods you've used before you may take a little time to learn this (if you're used to Loomis rods give yourself a while) but I'd suggest lawn casting for a while, then putting the rod away and try again next day etc rather than just deciding you're going to crack this sucker in an afternoon.I know people who've fished glass a lot generaly pick paras up and cast them straight away. IMHO they are worth learning to use properly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 3 21:54:53 1998 (205.236.248.232) Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Chris,I am not building too many rods at present, I am in the process of puttingtogethera new beveller that will allow me to build a rod without touching a planeatall!I really want to get away from hand planing but at the same time buildinga rod from the same culm. This requires equipment that must not make too muchscrap,which was not the case with many of the production machines of the past.I amnotinterested in any of the old designs using milling cutters that hadgeometrysuitedto cutting metal.Fly fishermen would be prepared to invest in a cane rod if they could buyit offthe shelf and the price was around the $750- $800 mark. There is a hugemarketoutthere that cannot be tapped into by hand planers because they cannot buildthemfast enough.Producing cane rods that can be displayed and handled in tackle shops is Ithinkthe way to go.Len Codella said once that he could sell 10 of my rods before he sold a$1200rod.The problem is I have run out of steam and need to get a more professionalapproach. I cannot build rods and also machines, so the rods have beenmore orlesshalted for the present.Terry C.J. Wohlford wrote: Terry,God knows, that's a good point (I'm still wrapping this rod silk). I doknowthey have their own computer controlled beveled for rough tapering butI'mguessing that they are hand planing final taper. Maybe that Morgan planerwouldsave time? I heard they are planning on selling 1 tip rods starting around$650(see page 26 of the latest issue of "The Bamboo Fly Rod" if you want toknowwho I'm talking about) I don't really know how they plan on doing it but itgotme thinking just the same (and that got me in trouble). We all sure know how labor intensive this craft is but let's just supposethatsomeone has a background in manufacturing processes. Might come inhandy forstreamlining production. What can be automated? Seems like there aremanylaborintensive products out on the market but if the right machines andprocessesare applied.... As for the labor force....well...I hate to say it but I'veseensome pretty cheap labor here in California. Maybe a company would evensend itover the border or overseas. I by no means am advocating this but couldseehowa company could rationalize doing so. I have seen a lot of fishing gearmanufactured oversees. As for the popularity of Bamboo...who knows what the next marketplacefad willbe. The 90's have surprised me a bit because it seems like people havebeenlooking for more quality products and willing to pay a little extra for it.Although I think that $2000 might be a tad high for anyone. We are alsoon theverge of seeing the baby boomer generation getting ready to retire. Thisworries me some. Are they all going to take up fly fishing? I'm going tohaveto drive out into the middle of Nevada to find some peace! I know thatthismight sound a bit selfish but I'd rather fight fish than crowds. Anyway,fromyour past posts it sounds like your business has or is starting to pick upandbased on your web site, I personally agree with most of how you marketyourrods and wish you luck. These are just some thoughts and all disclaimers apply.Best Regards.Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I hope these guys that intend to take on the big guys are not going tohandplane!It might also be worth looking back to a posting last week concerningthewidow of WesJordan having to sell some of his personal rods to cover an operation.There is no money in bamboo rods, there never has been, it is too labourintensive. Companies like T&T and Winston make their money from thegraphiterods they put out and other catalogue goodies.I guess if a guy is used to low pay and long hours then rodmakingwould beok, but to someone that is used to a good salary and benefits it is notmuchof dream.Terry from dhaftel@att.com Sun May 3 21:58:58 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 09:00:38-0400 Subject: I'm back! 4.0.995.52 Art & Mike, Thanks for the assistance. As you can see, I have successfully resubscribed to the list. I'll behere once again, lurking and occasionally pestering with questions, etc. Thanks again! Dennis Haftel ( from work) from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 22:03:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A05056F00E6; Sun, 03 May 1998 21:04:48 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 04:33 PM 5/3/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Don;RO> I am scaring myself, I think I am getting used to paying more forRO>eveything here. Durango is not on the way to anywhere from anywhere,soRO>anything that comes here makes a special trip, thereby driving costup.RO>When gas in Albuqueque was down to .96 , we were still paying 1.29and itRO>didn't come down until every radio station in the area was screamingatmaxRO>output about it. Thanks everyone for telling me about Amazon, justorderedRO> from them this morning, if it takes a month, I'll still be here.RO>John Channer John, Just remember: LA's crime, LA's smog, LA's freeways and LA's 11 to 12 million people.(in the greater LA area) See, doesn't Durango sound better and better? Don PS - We pay ~$1.20 for phase II anti-smog bilge-crap regular-gradegasoline out here in LA-LA land. OBTW, phase II = 10% less fuel economyover phase I, which is in turn about 5% - 10% less than the good oldstuff. Anyone else remember 12:1 compression sport cars, Sunoco 260 or ExxonSuper Extra. (both ~120 octane?) Plus where's my #@#@$#% S&H greenstamps, my free NFL football glass and how about a full-service station?Cheap gas my butt! Don;Anytime anything pisses me off all I have to do is look up at the mountainsand I'm over it instantly.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 22:03:54 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 11:03:40 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young On Sun, 3 May 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO Steve,happily. The taper is on my computer at home so I'll need to get therefirst.This taper is via WC who mic'd a PHY Driggs he was restoring. It's said Paul made a lot of variations intentional and otherwise but regardless of all that this is a very nice rod to cast. I made it for myself and on the first day was fishing with it when a bloke I met on the stream asked touse it. He fished with it all day then bought it. I still need to make another. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 22:11:29 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A22858200E6; Sun, 03 May 1998 21:12:40 MDT Subject: Re: Binding thread At 07:29 PM 5/3/98 -0600, you wrote:In my on-going search for rod-making stuff, today I found some thread attheflea market.Supposedly for stitching leather, hard, cotton, no fuzzies, about .022".Made by A. Lewis Thread Corp, NY. Label inside the spool reads "Morton 5CORD". Any comments on the suitability of this stuff for wrappingrough-planed sections for heat treating? It's probably too thick for glue-upof tip sections.Steve Weiss Dr. Steven;Make sure it's not waxed, from my years in the horse business I can tellyou that most thread for leather work and shoe repair is waxed, it mightleave marks on your rod or possibly burn.Just a thought.John Channer from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 3 22:13:20 1998 (205.236.248.232) Subject: Re: In Search Of... Tony,I remember when I live in South Africa in the early 70s they changed tothemetric system. It was to be done on a certain day (M day I think it wascalled)on that day everything changed over, all the shop scales and gas pumps etc.The company I worked for had all the engineering drawings changed over tometricand were issued on M day and the imperial drawings removed.Imperial does not convert very tidily to metric plus the fact all themachineshad imperial leadscrews so we had to convert back as we were working!This wasinthe days before elecronic calculatorsTerry Tony Young wrote: On Sun, 3 May 1998, john channer wrote: Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustmentsever72.7 mm? Don;Metric is one new trick this old dog will resist to the bitter end. I am acarpenter and metric would be a big pain, besides, I make enoughmistakeswith the system I am used to. I apologized to Tony for presuming tocorrecthis math, I sometimes forget that anyone in the world is better atmaththan I am. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. John (confused by the world, as usual)Channer Metric is very good to use but imperial has advantages. When boatbuilding (huge engeneering concerns excepted) all pretty much everyoneuses is imperial, a quarter inch is less precise sounding than 6mm anda foot is easier to imagine than 30cm for eg but when talking nuts andbolts you don't need to convert fractions so most go over to metric.Thou of an inch is a good size and it looks strange even to my eyes whenI see the French dimensions in TPF, so it's all what you're accostomed tousing.I guess I just round the centres off to 73mm :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 22:15:40 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 11:15:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sun, 3 May 1998 flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>> Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. IwondeRO>> how Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for thebumsteer.RO>>RO>> John Channer RO>It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. RO>Tony John, Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustments ever72.7 mm? Any bets on what the Euro (currency) is going to do? Not only are they all metric but but nobody can decide on who will be the main bank to theextent they will be playing musical chairs where the Dutch will be first, but only enough the Germans are swapping a rock solid currency for one that is only as good as all the other countries involved which include Ireland, Italy and (I think) Greece! I'll keep my Aussies, our currency may only be good for Monopoly but at least everybody knows the rules. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 22:22:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4B159600E6; Sun, 03 May 1998 21:23:29 MDT Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young At 11:03 AM 5/4/98 +0800, you wrote:On Sun, 3 May 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO Steve,happily. The taper is on my computer at home so I'll need to get therefirst.This taper is via WC who mic'd a PHY Driggs he was restoring. It's said Paul made a lot of variations intentional and otherwise but regardless of all that this is a very nice rod to cast. I made it for myself and on the first day was fishing with it when a bloke I met on the stream asked touse it. He fished with it all day then bought it. I still need to make another. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony;Is the Driggs a parabolic action or did Young make other actions,too? John Channer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon May 4 00:09:50 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA25168 +0000 Subject: Re: In Search Of... I don't think that it is that devious. Probably just an agreement by thepublisher notto sell under list so he doesn't undersell his distributors (he certainlyis capable ofunderselling them all, if he did, why would they distribute the book?). So, the publisherwinds up being a "last resort" if you cannot find it more conveniently(locally) orcheaper (a distributor). George Bourke ----------From: john channer Subject: Re: In Search Of...Date: Sunday, May 03, 1998 9:50 AM At 12:15 PM 5/3/98 -0700, you wrote:. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then whyput afull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. Let's see. Amazon.com buys a thousand copies from Pruett at $20 acopy(maybe as low as $18), then sells them at $35 a copy. Not a bad profitmargin! Pruett takes out a full page ad so that Amazon.com will buy 1000 (ormore copies). We see it for thity-five at amazon.com (or $40 at localstore) and think "What a deal" and bingo Visa cards are ringing up allover. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO I guess that's why I'm a nail pounder instead of in the add game ormarketing, just not devious enough. I sometimes loose sight of the factthat the root word of marketing is "mark", altho marketers will tell youits market.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 00:26:22 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 13:26:13 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sun, 3 May 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,I remember when I live in South Africa in the early 70s they changed tothemetric system. It was to be done on a certain day (M day I think it wascalled)on that day everything changed over, all the shop scales and gas pumpsetc.The company I worked for had all the engineering drawings changed overtometricand were issued on M day and the imperial drawings removed.Imperial does not convert very tidily to metric plus the fact all themachineshad imperial leadscrews so we had to convert back as we were working!This wasinthe days before elecronic calculatorsTerry You must have worn out a few slide rules.You're right, the two don't convert to one another easily at all and M day is a bit painful. At the time all the school kids were issued with little 1 litre vol cubes that showed the relationship between linear and volumetric measurements and this is where metric is very good. It wasactually illegal to trade using imperial measurements from M day on, so shops weren't allowed to say things like cabbage tupence h'pney (whops decimal currency was 20 years before that :-) a 1lb/500gms My lathe is metric and it's a hasle converting to thou when makingferrules.I think you have a 60 deg pitch for your screws and metric is 58 deg, or visa versa? I guess that was just to keep things exciting. I used to have an old UK made car with a few UNC, Imperial and metric nuts and bolts all over it. I wound up resorting to fencing wire to hold things together when ever possible, it was all the same gauge. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 00:28:14 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 13:28:06 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO Tony;Is the Driggs a parabolic action or did Young make other actions,too? John Channer Others on the list could answer if PHY made non paras, but the Driggs is one. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Finanplanr@aol.com Mon May 4 02:04:47 1998 Subject: Re: Cross Forsyth Rod...Lucky you! Congratulations! Your Cross rod is a find that should make you very happy. Ihappen to have one just like it, except mine is 8 foot...the only one of thatlength I have ever seen, although I have seen several 9 footers on rod listsover the years. Mine is unsusual in that is is single built...quite a few ofthe Cross rods were double built, as I recall...The rodmaker??? Oh yes,youmay have heard of him...fellow by the name of Wes Jordan...Yes, THE WesJordan, who apparenlty owned Cross Rod and Tackle before he went towork forOrvis... MIne is particluarly interesting as it was one of four rods I bought thatgotme inetersted in cane rods so many years ago...I did restore mine with thefull intermediates, and original guides and I have cast it after restoration.Although it prefers a silk line, it cast like dream...like a dream. If youhave a copy of my book, you will find a photo of my Cross Forsyth on page85,on the drying rack, right after varnishing...Yes, I still have it...No, Idon't think I would ever sell it.... Stu Kirkfield from flyrod@artistree.com Mon May 4 02:30:58 1998 AAA29026 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Terry,Wow. That's some feedback. I remember recently talking with a gentlemanfromRick'sRods in Colorado (http://www.ricksrods.com/). He mentioned they madeproductionequipment. I'm pretty sure we were talking about bamboo since that wasall I wastalking about. I mention planing forms and he mentions this equipmentthey makein the$10K to $20K range. Kind of like I pull out a knife and he pulls out a canon. Seems like $700-$800 is, for lack of a better word, the "target" pricerange.Interesting to here Len Codella comments. All I know is if I bring a bamboorodinto aany of the small fly fishing shops in the area people are falling over eachother toget a look at it. It's always interesting because most people have not evenseenareal live bamboo fly rod let alone cast one. Graphite sure is boring. But asyouknowthere is whole generation raised on graphite so it almost seems like youhave todesign the split cane tapers to mimic graphite (whoa..heresy!) or in otherwordsafast dry fly action. I personally would love to get away from using the plane. Between thecomputerkeyboards and the planing I worry about having problems with my handswhen I getolder. My father's generation complain about their backs. My generationwillcomplainabout their wrists. Hope to hear more about your endeavors in the future. Best Regards. Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I am not building too many rods at present, I am in the process of puttingtogethera new beveller that will allow me to build a rod without touching a planeatall!I really want to get away from hand planing but at the same timebuilding arod from the same culm. This requires equipment that must not make toomuch scrap,which was not the case with many of the production machines of thepast. I amnotinterested in any of the old designs using milling cutters that hadgeometrysuitedto cutting metal.Fly fishermen would be prepared to invest in a cane rod if they could buyitoffthe shelf and the price was around the $750- $800 mark. There is a hugemarketoutthere that cannot be tapped into by hand planers because they cannotbuildthemfast enough.Producing cane rods that can be displayed and handled in tackle shops isIthinkthe way to go.Len Codella said once that he could sell 10 of my rods before he sold a$1200rod.The problem is I have run out of steam and need to get a moreprofessionalapproach. I cannot build rods and also machines, so the rods have beenmore orlesshalted for the present.Terry C.J. Wohlford wrote: Terry,God knows, that's a good point (I'm still wrapping this rod silk). I doknowthey have their own computer controlled beveled for rough tapering butI'mguessing that they are hand planing final taper. Maybe that Morganplanerwouldsave time? I heard they are planning on selling 1 tip rods startingaround$650(see page 26 of the latest issue of "The Bamboo Fly Rod" if you want toknowwho I'm talking about) I don't really know how they plan on doing it butitgotme thinking just the same (and that got me in trouble). We all sure know how labor intensive this craft is but let's justsupposethatsomeone has a background in manufacturing processes. Might come inhandy forstreamlining production. What can be automated? Seems like there aremanylaborintensive products out on the market but if the right machines andprocessesare applied.... As for the labor force....well...I hate to say it but I'veseensome pretty cheap labor here in California. Maybe a company wouldeven senditover the border or overseas. I by no means am advocating this but couldseehowa company could rationalize doing so. I have seen a lot of fishing gearmanufactured oversees. As for the popularity of Bamboo...who knows what the next marketplacefadwillbe. The 90's have surprised me a bit because it seems like people havebeenlooking for more quality products and willing to pay a little extra forit.Although I think that $2000 might be a tad high for anyone. We are alsoontheverge of seeing the baby boomer generation getting ready to retire.Thisworries me some. Are they all going to take up fly fishing? I'm going tohaveto drive out into the middle of Nevada to find some peace! I know thatthismight sound a bit selfish but I'd rather fight fish than crowds. Anyway,fromyour past posts it sounds like your business has or is starting to pickupandbased on your web site, I personally agree with most of how youmarket yourrods and wish you luck. These are just some thoughts and all disclaimers apply.Best Regards.Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I hope these guys that intend to take on the big guys are not going tohandplane!It might also be worth looking back to a posting last week concerningthewidow of WesJordan having to sell some of his personal rods to cover an operation.There is no money in bamboo rods, there never has been, it is toolabourintensive. Companies like T&T and Winston make their money fromthegraphiterods they put out and other catalogue goodies.I guess if a guy is used to low pay and long hours then rodmakingwouldbeok, but to someone that is used to a good salary and benefits it is notmuchof dream.Terry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 04:28:30 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 17:28:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) OK, here's the Driggs taper for all you paraholics again. THESE ARE ON SIX ( 6) INCH CENTERS 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Mon May 4 07:29:16 1998 with ESMTP id 269 for ;Mon, 4 May 1998 07:32:53 -0500 Subject: Ah....Springtime Sorry to take up the space but I thought many of you would be interestedin the following news brief I picked up today from the web.Jim Kubichek 06:09 PM ET 05/01/98 Animal rights group wants to ban park fishing GATLINBURG, Tenn. (Reuters) - Animal rights activistscampaigning for a ban on fishing in U.S. National Parks sent outa man dressed as a fish to plead their case Friday.The man, calling himself ``Gill the Fish,'' delivered aletter to officials at Great Smoky Mountains National Park andparaded around the gate of the park for about an hour passingout information.The campaign is being pushed by People for the EthicalTreatment of Animals, a group which says that ``animal sufferingof any kind is not sport'' and that ``fish feel pain'' whencaught.Smoky Mountain park prohibits fishing for native brook trout but allows the taking of brown and rainbow trout, two speciesnot native to the area. A spokeswoman said the park did not planto change its policies because it considers fishing vital tocontrolling populations of both non-native species. ^REUTERS@ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 07:39:38 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 20:39:27 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime On Mon, 4 May 1998 jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: Sorry to take up the space but I thought many of you would be interestedin the following news brief I picked up today from the web.Jim Kubichek 06:09 PM ET 05/01/98 Animal rights group wants to ban park fishing GATLINBURG, Tenn. (Reuters) - Animal rights activistscampaigning for a ban on fishing in U.S. National Parks sent outa man dressed as a fish to plead their case Friday.The man, calling himself ``Gill the Fish,'' delivered aletter to officials at Great Smoky Mountains National Park andparaded around the gate of the park for about an hour passingout information.The campaign is being pushed by People for the EthicalTreatment of Animals, a group which says that ``animal sufferingof any kind is not sport'' and that ``fish feel pain'' whencaught.Smoky Mountain park prohibits fishing for native brook trout but allows the taking of brown and rainbow trout, two speciesnot native to the area. A spokeswoman said the park did not planto change its policies because it considers fishing vital tocontrolling populations of both non-native species. ^REUTERS@ Whaddaya recon Gill'd weigh cleaned and filleted? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 08:10:29 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I built a two and a half footer and a four footer using the dimensions youdescribe, and with a Sears heat gun I have no problem getting up to temp.In fact, will likely built one an inch larger on each pipe. I did stuffinsulation between the two sections, and used an adjustable elbow at theexhaust end instead of simply laying a piece of metal to protect the heatgun. I lay my oven on its side and use hardware cloth to place the bambooon. It also works well when vertical.Jerry SniderAt 08:20 AM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:Hi All, I am going to build the Neuneman heat gun oven. Has anyone built thisthing.His pipe measurments are in metric, but I can't seem to find stove pipethatsmall. All I can get is 6" and 4" dia stove pipe. I don't know if my heat gunwill heat up a pipe that big. Does anyone have successful dimentions orotherpipe diameters that worked for them.Thanks Mark Mills from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon May 4 08:33:59 1998 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young I took Tony's Driggs taper, ran it thru Stetzer's hexrod to get 5" spacingandit worked out to be a stellar rod. Casting the para this radical is adifferent thing from a typical taper but nothing too weird for a goodcaster.I am curious to see how it is to fish the thing with such intangables ashowit picks up line off the water etc. Rob Hoffhines from saweiss@flash.net Mon May 4 09:17:14 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Heat Gun I built a two and a half footer and a four footer using the dimensions youdescribe, and with a Sears heat gun I have no problem getting up to temp.In fact, will likely built one an inch larger on each pipe. I did stuffinsulation between the two sections, and used an adjustable elbow at theexhaust end instead of simply laying a piece of metal to protect the heatgun. ...... Jerry,I'm missing something in your description. Doesn't putting insulationbetween the two pipes interfere with the air flow?Steve Weiss from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 09:40:01 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 22:38:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young On Mon, 4 May 1998, Nodewrrior wrote: I took Tony's Driggs taper, ran it thru Stetzer's hexrod to get 5" spacingandit worked out to be a stellar rod. Casting the para this radical is adifferent thing from a typical taper but nothing too weird for a goodcaster.I am curious to see how it is to fish the thing with such intangables ashowit picks up line off the water etc. Rob Hoffhines Please note, it's not my taper. It came via WC.I've mentioned before how much I like this taper. Using a WF#3 you can realy shoot line. The most noticeable thing about it is the very tight loop you can cast, even into a decent breeze.Local conditions dictate mostly nymphing and because the rod casts all the way back, picking up line is smooth and casting reasonably big and I hate to admit it weighted nymphs is about as good as I can imagine it getting. I actually think this is a good taper to use as an ititial go at paras as it's short and it has an obvious style to it in use.Having said said it's great for nymphing, obviously it's good for dry fly too it's just not a dry action. Not great for roll casting though.The bloke who bought the rod I made who has since become a good friendwas talking about it in the pub the day he decided to buy it and we were drinking wine. Penfolds (it's cheep enough to drink by the bucket here ;-) ) and he said it was a delicate little number with a cheeky after taste. The rod, can't remember the wine. Make, fish, enjoy. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from MMills1189@aol.com Mon May 4 09:43:50 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Jerry,Thanks for the response. How do you put insulation in between the twopipes,does'nt it restrict the air flow since the air must flow down the largepipeand up into the small pipe? Thanks Mark Mills. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 4 09:44:33 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bamboo Entrepreneurs actually mackintosh stole windows from Xerox and gates stole it fromMac. ----------From: SealRite[SMTP:SealRite@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 02, 1998 5:11 AM Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Bill Gates visited an old firm called Xerox in the late seventies orearlyeighties. He was contracted by Apple computer to write a new opertaingsystem.Xerox had terminated and shelved a project designed to automate theworkplace. Xeros's project had computers that had push button icons,drag anddrop file structure, something called e mail, etc. It was designed bya bunchof "futurists" that had a vision, unfortunately it was not shared byXerox. Bill basically stole the whole concept of windows from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 4 09:57:30 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: sharkskin they do make fine but its not real fine. I bought some years ago mountedon plastic handles an kind of used them as abrasive planes. My feelingsis that they are good for node filing but way to course for sandingstrips except if you are of the roughing the glue surface school. ----------From: Ragnarig[SMTP:Ragnarig@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 02, 1998 7:17 PM Subject: sharkskin Is anybody familiar with an abrasive made by Sandvik called"Sharkskin" orsomething like that? It's a thin self-adhesive metal sheet with a uniform pattern ofpin-prickswhich do the sanding. I picked up a couple sheets of coarse-grain butIwonder if they also make fine. Has anybody used this for rodmaking? Any impressions/observations? Once this stuff is stuck to a level block, it'll almost level like aplane. Davy from Canerods@aol.com Mon May 4 09:59:07 1998 Subject: Re: Cross Forsyth Rod...Lucky you! In a message dated 98-05-04 03:12:56 EDT, you write: Stuart, Any chance of a new reprinting of your book? I've been seaching for a copyforseveral years - always a day late or a dollar short, it seems. Don Burns from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 10:00:41 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I would stay far away from candy thermometers. I tried using two ofthem,and there was a 25 degree!! difference between the two. However, when Iswitched the SAME thermometer between the top and the bottom of theoven,the temp range varied less than 4 degrees per thermometer! J. Snider At 06:57 AM 5/2/98 -0500, you wrote:MMills1189 wrote: Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was alsogoing toinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the topandone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along the pipe.Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark Mark, I drilled a hole and put in a thermometer about 2/3 of the way up theoven into the 4" section. Works for me. Two or three thermometerswould probably be more accurate but the air is moving up so I figure itspretty consistent in the 4" tube. Rick from kgabd@clsp.uswest.net Mon May 4 10:20:49 1998 Subject: Re: Cross Forsyth Rod...Lucky you! Canerods wrote: In a message dated 98-05-04 03:12:56 EDT, you write: Ihappen to have one just like it, except mine is 8 foot...the only one ofthatlength I have ever seen, although I have seen several 9 footers on rodlistsover the years. Mine is unsusual in that is is single built...quite a few ofthe Cross rods were double built, as I recall...The rodmaker??? Oh yes,youmay have heard of him...fellow by the name of Wes Jordan...Yes, THE WesJordan, who apparenlty owned Cross Rod and Tackle before he went towork forOrvis... MIne is particluarly interesting as it was one of four rods I bought thatgotme inetersted in cane rods so many years ago...I did restore mine withthefull intermediates, and original guides and I have cast it afterrestoration.Although it prefers a silk line, it cast like dream...like a dream. If youhave a copy of my book, you will find a photo of my Cross Forsyth onpage 85,on the drying rack, right after varnishing...Yes, I still have it...No, Idon't think I would ever sell it.... Stu Kirkfield >> Stuart, Any chance of a new reprinting of your book? I've been seaching for acopy forseveral years - always a day late or a dollar short, it seems. Don BurnsDon, I'm with you - that book is hard to come by. Kevin. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 10:32:45 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber If you cut cross sections of bamboo and study it under the microscope youwill find that, in measuring the wall thickness and the diameter of eachfiber in a fiber bundle, they will be rather consisently the same size,thickness, etc. So Darryl is absolutely correct. These fiber bundles areassociated with the vascular or water/food conducting cells, and sort oflook like a Darth Vader mask, the larger cells being the conducting cells.As you go to the interior, these bundles of vascular bundles becomefartherapart, i.e., are separated by cortex parenchyma (thin walled) cells. Thefarther you go towards the center of the culm, the fewer bundles there areand the farther apart they are. As long as the bundles are densely packed,they will be just as strong on the inner surface as they are on the outersurface. Theoretically, if you selected a strip of bamboo packed SOLIDwithbundle fibers, i.e. something you might select for an 8-9 wt rod and youwant to build a 4 wt., you probably could build the thing inside out, i.e.the nodes to the center, and (again, in theory) it would likely be just asstrong. I state this from a plant anatomist's point of view and not that ofan engineer!Jerry SniderAt 07:41 PM 5/1/98 -0700, you wrote:Darryl, I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, such asanoak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example, cottonwood,was atleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cell structurethan thefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, myquestionhere iswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo with smallercells, nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given your pointofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestion seemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I am curiouswhetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn't applyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no morethan.005 fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon May 4 10:36:53 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA261396054; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:34:14 -0700 Subject: RE: Weakening a rod Davy, Terry, thanks or the input. I agree that you must have a plan before you start sanding. When I sit a 6' rod next to a mid tip from a 9' it is very clear even without the dial caliper that the majority of the work is in the top half of the tip section. This also seems like the most dangerous part to mess with. The mid is very close to the butt of the 6' in these two rods, but the tip is larger at the upper end although pretty close on the lower half. The 9' rod is the standard Heddon made 7/8 wt.? or so. I also don't like the idea of wrecking a 9' rod to make a short one. It's the heavier line wt. taper that makes them virtually of non-use to me. I've always used mismatched tips and mids from the bone pile, or I've ordered a set of tips from one of the catalogs and mated them with an orphan mid section. What is also true with these mid/tip rods is that if you get the rod in the ballpark and then test cast it and work a little more until you have an action that is acceptable, you're done. They won't likely feel like a 6' rod made from raw materials and an exact taper, but they're a starting point for developing the interest further for some. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 10:38:58 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber The larger vs. the smaller cells in an Oak cross section simply indicatesspring wood and summer wood. Early in the spring, when the plant resumesgrowth, it grows rapidly (lots of moisture, good climitological conditions)and the cells are larger in size, and there are fewer of them. As theseason continues and there is less moisture, the cells are smaller. Duringthe winter, little growth occurs. This is why trees have "annual" growthrings. Even works in the tropics, where there are wet and dry seasons butno winter. However, in these wood types, the cells/tissues consist of farmore than merely fibers, there is a mixture of fibers and conducting cells.If one could grow a "tree" with ONLY fibers, wow!!Jerry Snider At 02:54 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: I didn't say there was _no_ difference. This is what I said: Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. You lost me with your comparison between oak and cottonwood.A better comparison would be between larger cells and smallercells within the same piece of oak. Darryl **************************************************************************I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, such asan oak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example,cottonwood,was atleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cell structure than thefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, myquestion here iswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo withsmaller cells, nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given yourpoint ofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestion seemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I amcurious whetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn'tapplyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no more than.005 fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from flyfisher@nextdim.com Mon May 4 11:10:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A72610F01E0; Mon, 04 May 1998 09:04:54 PDT Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) Hi all, How many patterns are there for the "Driggs" and variants?Followingare the two that I have built.7'2" "Driggs" 7'2" Variant0"-.068" 0"-.0645"-.082" 5"-.080"10"- .103" 10"-.100"15"-.115" 15"-.110"20"-.138" 20"-.134"25"-.147" 25"-.142"30"-.158" 30"-.154"35"- .175" 35"-.170"40"-.195" 40"-.190"43"-.200" 43"-.200"0"-.207" 0"-.204"5"-.215" 5"-.210"10"- .225" 10"-.220"15"-.240" 15"-.236"20"-.253" 20"-.250"25"-.263" 25"-.262"30"-.270" 30"-.270"35"- .270" 35"-.270"40"-.270" 40"-.270"43"-.270" 43"-.270"Have fun,Dell CoppockSpokane, WA-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) OK, here's the Driggs taper for all you paraholics again. THESE ARE ON SIX ( 6) INCH CENTERS 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 11:11:06 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Oops! Sorry. I used THREE sections of pipe, a 7" outer section, a 5"section (with insulation between the two), and the inner 4" section. sortof a hybrid between the Nunemann (sp?) and the newly designed one on theRodmaker's Web page. At 08:18 AM 5/4/98 -0600, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 7:13 AMSubject: Re: Heat Gun I built a two and a half footer and a four footer using the dimensions youdescribe, and with a Sears heat gun I have no problem getting up to temp.In fact, will likely built one an inch larger on each pipe. I did stuffinsulation between the two sections, and used an adjustable elbow attheexhaust end instead of simply laying a piece of metal to protect the heatgun. ...... Jerry,I'm missing something in your description. Doesn't putting insulationbetween the two pipes interfere with the air flow?Steve Weiss Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon May 4 11:18:59 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 17:14:57 +0200 Subject: Risp: Vocation ----------Da: Boretti Marco A: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Data: domenica 21 dicembre 1997 17.09 Dear Friends,I want inform you that I am in vocation from 25 December to 04.January1998.I send to all subscriber my best wishes, Merry Christmas and Happy NewYear. Marco Boretti from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon May 4 11:19:04 1998 Subject: Info about making beveler patterns. Dear Rodmakers friends,I have two bevelers machines : one from Al Bellinger, the other fromDarrylWhithead.I work very well with that of Darryl Whithead, but I found some problemsinbuildingpatterns with the machine of Bellinger.I should therefore be much grateful if you would send me by E-mail or Faxsome compleate explanations about the way of making patterns andcuttingthe right taper on wood patterns by using this beveler of Bellinger. Sincerely,Marco Boretti. m.boretti@agonet.it Fax . 0039.523.320088 from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon May 4 11:23:31 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA14174 +0200 Subject: Sv: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young LAA26544 I took Tony's Driggs taper, ran it thru Stetzer's hexrod to get 5" spacingandit worked out to be a stellar rod. Casting the para this radical is adifferent thing from a typical taper but nothing too weird for a goodcaster.I am curious to see how it is to fish the thing with such intangables ashowit picks up line off the water etc. Rob Hoffhines How about sharing this taper with the rest of us, please. regards Carsten from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon May 4 11:58:39 1998 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) Here's the one I did and it seems way off the others... Heck, it works!!1 .0705 .09010 .10615 .12620 .14225 .15230 .16035 .18540 .20045 .21050 .218 55 .22860 .24565 .25870 .26375 .270 etc. Rob Hoffhines from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Mon May 4 12:02:26 1998 (METDST) Subject: New source for bamboo? Dear friends! Today i`ve seen a new adress (source?) for tonkin on the www:http://www.progresstrading.com/ The sell some cheap tonkin, think it`s not the real stuff we need,but mabye a cheap source for beginners for testing the art ofrodmaking?! Regards Stefan/Switzerland from saltwein@swbell.net Mon May 4 12:09:28 1998 gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net MAA12985 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young Nodewrrior wrote: I took Tony's Driggs taper, ran it thru Stetzer's hexrod to get 5" spacingandit worked out to be a stellar rod. Casting the para this radical is adifferent thing from a typical taper but nothing too weird for a goodcaster.I am curious to see how it is to fish the thing with such intangables ashowit picks up line off the water etc. Rob Hoffhines Rob, Do you have the figures handy for the 5" spacing on the "Driggs"? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from thramer@presys.com Mon May 4 12:58:27 1998 0000 Subject: A.J.'s 3wt HiAll,My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYS beenthey are a rod for the experienced bamboo user. NO heavy fish played offthe rod, NO bead heads, NO wieghted flies. Small to medium dries only. The 4wts will do all of the above but I have always viewed the 3wtsas the lightest taper that bamboo should be used for, an outlook that isborn out by the the old makers rods.the confusion results from the stupid method of line rating that manynewer anglers have grown up with. ie: the graphite underrating of lineweights. This confusion has resulted in some misunderstanding before,read: Iwant a delicate rod for trout ,answer: 4wt . It is not the faultof the new angler rather it is a result of the plastic boys ignorance ofthe AFTMA line rating system. Sorry for the rant (again)A.J.Thramer from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon May 4 13:01:07 1998 Subject: Re: Risp: Vacation Marco,I know I've been a little behind this year but you've just made me feelright up-to-date. ;-)Gary H. At 04:58 PM 5/4/98 +0200, you wrote: ----------Da: Boretti Marco A: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Data: domenica 21 dicembre 1997 17.09 Dear Friends,I want inform you that I am in vocation from 25 December to 04.January1998.I send to all subscriber my best wishes, Merry Christmas and Happy NewYear. Marco Boretti from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon May 4 13:24:11 1998 Subject: R: Risp: Vacation Excuse me,But I send the E-mail message for error.Sincerely,Marco ----------Da: Heidt A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: lunedá 4 maggio 1998 20.04 Marco,I know I've been a little behind this year but you've just made mefeelright up-to-date. ;-)Gary H. At 04:58 PM 5/4/98 +0200, you wrote: ----------Da: Boretti Marco A: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Data: domenica 21 dicembre 1997 17.09 Dear Friends,I want inform you that I am in vocation from 25 December to04.January1998.I send to all subscriber my best wishes, Merry Christmas and HappyNewYear. Marco Boretti from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon May 4 13:30:27 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA202696468; Mon, 4 May 1998 11:27:48 -0700 Subject: Thramer 6' 4 wt. I recently finished a 6' 4 wt. rod made on a Thramer taper and wow!!! This rod was for my nine year old daughter's birthday and we began our casting lessons this past weekend. Key words here are "Envy", "May I borrow your fly rod honey" etc. The wraps are purple (sound familiar), what is it with little girls and the color purple? She doesn't even like Barney!! Now I'll take her to the upper Deschutes in a couple of months where only the mosquitos are thicker than the rising fish, and not by much I might add. This is just one of those group hug posts, no real scientific content. The rod is beautiful and I'm a happy camper. Perhaps too much coffee!!! Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rennyg@ibm.net Mon May 4 13:34:44 1998 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA36138 for; Mon, 4 May 1998 18:34:37 GMT Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber I am working on my first flamed rod and I have a question. Should I goahead and heat treat it when I get it roughed out? Will this be too muchheating and make the cane brittle, or is it a can't/won't hurt thing? Ilike the fact that heat treating finishes straightening, but I don't wantto damage the cane. TIA for any suggestions. John Channer John, we are talking religion here. I'll risc my neck in saying: Go ahead,flameon. PHY flamed his rods until almost black in places, and from the 2 PHYrodsI've tried, it works. I've always flamed rods on the outside alone, butsome,also before splitting into strips, use the heatgun on the inside as well.Forstraightening, use the heatgun, as it won't burn the bamboo. You could gonodeless, saving Yourself a lot of time, since straightening is reducedconsiderably. If You flame too much, make a carbon rod instead regards Carsten from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat May 2 13:55:58 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07959 for Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers john channer wrote: At 12:45 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:On Thursday, May 7th at 8:00 PM there will be a gathering of rodmakersin theChicago area at Coren's Rod and Reel (773)631-5202 in Norwood hts.Just aninformal meet-n-greet and share ideas, cast rods etc. Call Eric HeckmanatCoren's for more details. Rob Hoffhines Rob;That figures, I move away from the accursed city, and the next thing Iknowthere is a rodmakers gathering there. Still not enough to get me to goback.Have fun! John Channer(now living in)Durango,Co.John, what didnt you like about Chicago? Traffic? Road rage?Pollution? Too far to drive to find trout? Expensive housing? Lousy weather? At least its only a few hrs. to Wisc. and Michigan. Ed M. from rmoon@ida.net Sat May 2 13:59:25 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Flamed rods Carsten, Tell me more about those carbon rods. The time I tried tomake them in my steel pipe blow torch scientific heat treater, theyburst into flame when I opened the plug. Did I do something wrong?Ralph from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 14:13:29 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0A93D500DA; Sat, 02 May 1998 13:14:49 MDT Subject: Re: Sv: Flamed rods OAA20327 At 08:40 PM 5/2/98 +0200, you wrote: Hi guys;I am working on my first flamed rod and I have a question. Should I goahead and heat treat it when I get it roughed out? Will this be too muchheating and make the cane brittle, or is it a can't/won't hurt thing? Ilike the fact that heat treating finishes straightening, but I don't wantto damage the cane. TIA for any suggestions. John Channer John, we are talking religion here. I'll risc my neck in saying: Go ahead,flame on. PHY flamed his rods until almost black in places, and from the 2PHY rods I've tried, it works. I've always flamed rods on the outsidealone, but some, also before splitting into strips, use the heatgun on theinside as well. For straightening, use the heatgun, as it won't burn thebamboo. You could go nodeless, saving Yourself a lot of time, sincestraightening is reduced considerably. If You flame too much, make a carbon rod instead regards Carsten Carsten;I don't know what kind of heat gun you are using, but my cheapo 2 speedwill turn anything flammable into charcoal if you're not carefull, I'veburned thru more than one strip with it. It is still better than an alcohollamp. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 14:28:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4133FB00DA; Sat, 02 May 1998 13:29:23 MDT Subject: Chicago rodmakers Ed;All of the above, plus.Don't forget the wonderful gangs and non- existentcrime rate, it even followed us out to the corn fields between Chi andRockford. I lived in Chicago area all my life, until 3 years ago when wecame out here on vacation, went home, fixed up the 120 yr old wreck, putiton the market and came out here to find a job.Now we're Rocky MountainHighand will never come down, its great!Only one problem; too many rivers andnot enough time.Flip someone off on the Edens for me, but don't forget toduck if they shoot back. John Channer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat May 2 14:33:23 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago rodmakers John, I ran some SOB off on the Dan Ryan for you a while back.Bret from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat May 2 15:41:33 1998 Subject: TTBBBQ IV & Rodmakers At Grayrock 98 TTBBBQ IV. The flier advertises the Makers Rod and explains the details ofTTBBBQ. I have been asked by a few list members about the get togetherand anycost factors. So here is the scoop. The $50 TTBBBQ fee for the Rodmakersgroup covers the cost of BOTH events TTBBBQ IV and Rodmakers AtGrayrock. TheRodmakers will still be having the Thursday night cookout at WhisperingPines(The Love Bugs - aka Frank Love's) - Friday night RoadKill Cookoff andHomeBrew Beer Taste - and commemorative aprons as usual.TTBBBQ is a fund raiser as well as a social event - last year there wasnearly $4000 raised for environment groups - a part of the admission feegoesto this end. Those involved in organizing TTBBBQ appreciate theCommitmentthat the Rodmakers have made with the Makers Rod Raffle and offeredthis.Another offering is that those wanting to bring their wives and kids toTTBBBQand Rodmakers At Grayrock the end cost for each will be $25 ($50 feewith $25instant cash rebate). On the organizational end the single fee structure will save several ofus some grief. Vic Edwards is taking registrations - TTBBBQ IV c\o VicEdwards, POBox 116, Grayling,MI 49738. For those that know that they areattending we would ask that you forward Vic the money by May 15, 1998 -ANDplease attach a note saying Rodmaker as well.Now, If you don't wish to be part of TTBBBQ IV and yet want to come toRodmakers At Grayrock 98 - JUST SHOW UP. There will be a bucket to put afewbucks in to help cover costs. Vic, Steve & et el are working hard to plan a special evening forTTBBBQIV - there will be the Makers Rod raffle which I'm sure will be exciting.As (tenative) is as follows Friday (June 19) Saturday(June 20)Fish or Make rodsSunday(June 21)Fish the Dead Stream Swamp - Beaver Pond Hunt - Bring Compass orGPS Monday(June 22)Fish or make rodsTuesday(June 23)Fish the Jordan - Camp out on the Jordan - Camp site on state land inheadwaters - bring marshmellows - campfire songs? Wednesday(June 24)Hands on workshop - culm to frist tapered strip (group 1)Fish the Jordan (am) - return to Clubhouse Thursday(June 25)Hands on Workshop - culm to first tapered strip (group 2)Evening - Cookout @ Frank's - Fish the Manistee Friday(June 26)Demarest Talk on BambooMill demos - working to get Morgan and Bellinger Sharpening table - a display of all stones holders and discussionIRS - Excise Tax TalkFlee Market & Swap - Sell - Trade - Swap - Dicker (no Ginsu knives)Afternoon hands on things (volunteers needed)Rodmakers Challenge CourseEast Branch Tribute to JJ - 5:00Evening Rodmakers RoadKill CookOff & HomeBrew Beer Taste Saturday(June 27)Round Table (all involved)Glue a ThonFinish a thonAdvance Hands on Break for TTBBBQ IV at 5:00 If you have any questions or comments about events or somethingspecificthat you would like to see or do please contact me - e mail -waynecatt@aol.com or phone 616-675-5894 (eve) Wayne from sats@gte.net Sat May 2 15:50:38 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! PAA24282 Are we talking about making a new rod, or altering an alreadyexisting rod? With a new rod, we can remove the outer enamel and go into the power fibers and still preserve the planned diameter of the blank. With an already existing rod, the only thingyou can do is reduce the diameter. In that case, yes you are goingto alter the action or line wt the rod casts. Lets figure out what weare doing here before we go any further. Exactly. Once a section has been "glued up" it's got a taper; diameter;line- wt.; action; and about 10 other ingredients. Removing cain from thereonout will change, to some degree, everyone of those factors. What happens to a rod section when you remove .001 from the outside ofthatsection? Will it bend easier? Will it break easier? Will it slow the action? Will it change the rod wt? These are questions that I don't think anyone has answered. I've neverseen itdiscussed here. I do know that the old masters would change the actions of rods to findnewtapers by taking a few .000 off the outside at one place or another. I remember, you telling of changing the "feel" of a rod, by removing a few.000,to make it roll cast better. I've been testing the results of removing cain from the outside (nevermorethen .005) to see what changes took place. I haven't had time to do enoughresearch to give any good answers yet. If anyone on the list can shed anylight on this, I'd be interested to hear it. --Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat May 2 15:51:56 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA57358 Subject: Sv: Sv: Flamed rods printable to 8bit by wugate.wustl.edu idPAA24372 Carsten, Tell me more about those carbon rods. The time I tried tomake them in my steel pipe blow torch scientific heat treater, theyburst into flame when I opened the plug. Did I do something wrong?Ralph Ralph, dont open your steel pipe blow torch scientific heat treater untileverything have cooled down. Lotsa heat plus oxygen means fire from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 17:10:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AA3342300C8; Sat, 02 May 1998 16:12:03 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago rodmakers At 03:32 PM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:John, I ran some SOB off on the Dan Ryan for you a while back.Bret Bret;I'm sure he had it coming to him. Out here about all we have to deal withon the roads are deer, elk, and Winnebagos. The deer and elk are smarterthan most drivers in Chicago, and the ones on the North Shore are evenworse.Winnebagos are only a problem between Memorial Day and Labor Day.Igladly leave to you my share of the traffic jambs. John Channer from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat May 2 17:21:07 1998 ; Sun, 3 May 1998 10:21:00 +1200 Subject: Re: In Search Of... I would endorse Dave's comments . A very interesting book and veryaccessible via Amazon even to the more remote ( and desirable ) parts oftheplanet . A lot of the information is USA based but more then enough in the book forme to consider it excellent buying as a souce of information on both reelsand rods . Iank At 02:14 PM 2/05/98 EDT, you wrote:I just bought a new book that I think is a great book.It is called Classic &Antique Tackle by A.J. cambell. It gives the complete history of rods and reels from the begining to todays tackle and builders.It is very interesting reading.Thebook sells for $50.00 ,But can be purchased from Amazon.com books for$35.00. Dave L. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat May 2 19:15:10 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers John,This will be my first summer away from the Aspen music festival in 7years. Imay be joining you in leaving this trout desert.Any good orchestras in Durango? Rob Hoffhines from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 19:55:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0AC5CB00B6; Sat, 02 May 1998 18:56:12 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers At 08:14 PM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:John,This will be my first summer away from the Aspen music festival in 7years. Imay be joining you in leaving this trout desert.Any good orchestras in Durango? Rob Hoffhines Rob;My daughter plays flute and oboe in the DHS band and orchestra, so thatsthe main one I know of, but I have heard that the San Juan Symphony isverygood. I have also heard the Fort Lewis College orchestra and they aregood,also, but I get the impression that you are a proffessional, so that'sprobably not much use to you. Try Denver, but live up in the mountainsaway from the city. John Channer from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 2 20:41:34 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening snake guides -- Clemens In a message dated 98-05-02 07:39:39 EDT, you write: Rich, No. But, I believe Clemens buys lots of their stuff and relabel it as their own.IE Clemens cork restorer vs the U40 stuff. Therefore, a total seat-of-the- pants guess is that they're Pacific Bay guides. I've been thinking about ordering a few myself - just to test my theory. IMHO, Don Burns from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat May 2 21:05:22 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod Dear Chris It's an idea with merit: at least I hope it is, as it's one on which I'vespent some time in recent years. There are many old mediocre rods whichwillnever have much value and need a rebuild anyway so, like, why not? I justhope we don't destroy all the good old nine-footers because shorter rodsarede rigeur right now- some of the long ones are great, and will do thingstheshorter ones can't. It's like violins- and Patrick Coffey will bear me out on this, I'm sure.Guys like Stradivari, Guarneri and Bergonzi made fiddles with short necks,elegant ornamentation and subtle dynamic nuance to best express theBaroquemusic of their day. Along comes the Romantic era and virtually all the good old master fiddlesgetliterally butchered to make them usable for the louder, more dynamicworks ofcats like Beethoven and Wagner. Even today, when an old, original violinsurfaces on the market, most people will automatically splice on a new,longerneck, rebrace it and "update" it because that makes it more valuable to amodern musician. But now there is a greater appreciation for older music, with RenaissanceandBaroque ensembles appearing all over the world, and there are a lot ofpeoplewho would kill for a really original Strad. Unfortunately though, theydon'texist. Actually, I think there is one viola, but that is only because itresides in a major museum and probably can't be sold. Sorry about that. Meanwhile, back at the planing form... My suggestion is to start on the lower section(s) first, get the generalflexabout like you want it, then do whatever it is you think would improve thetip, rather than just thin the entire length of the rod right off the bat. Thelatter method will, likely as not, produce a result you don't like and can'teasily remedy. And be sure to use the planing form, to ensure that the splines come outrelatively even. All the best,Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat May 2 21:10:00 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting This is a little different from the current thread but... A few days ago, somebody was talking about tapers for Spey rods. I've got a good one, a thirteen-foot Gale, and I'd be happy to supply thetaper if anyone is interested. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat May 2 21:18:12 1998 Subject: sharkskin Is anybody familiar with an abrasive made by Sandvik called "Sharkskin"orsomething like that? It's a thin self-adhesive metal sheet with a uniform pattern of pin- prickswhich do the sanding. I picked up a couple sheets of coarse-grain but Iwonder if they also make fine. Has anybody used this for rodmaking? Any impressions/observations? Once this stuff is stuck to a level block, it'll almost level like a plane. Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 21:20:05 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 10:19:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... Russ,thanks for that. Tony On Sat, 2 May 1998, Golden Witch wrote: Tony, They don't have one listed in the (older) catalog I've got so I checkedwith a few search engines but still no luck. They do have a fax (717)243-8603, but nothing as quick & inexpensive as the internet. You canreachthem by snail at:The Angler's ArtP.O. Box 148Plainfield, PA 17081 Russ Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 21:51:43 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 10:51:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... /***** snip'd bit's re The lovely Reed and it's availability *******/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer I've seen it listed at Amazom.com for $US35.00 but they don't yet have stocks. Hate to mention anything as crass as money but the puney $AUST makes that a $AUST 25 (approx) dollar diff in the price. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 21:53:58 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 10:53:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sat, 2 May 1998, Chris Bogart wrote: TonyTry Amazon.com - got my copy from them this week. Chris I tried them yesterday but they listed it as not in stock. Guess they haven't updated it yet. Thanks, I'll give my VISA a thrashing right now. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 21:59:33 1998 Subject: Re: Re: HELP!! I did-thanks, Jon.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 21:59:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japan Hey, TonyI didn't know you blokes were so uptight about emotion-heck, I wascertifiable the day I was born and haven't improved one iota since.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 21:59:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Renny,If you are seeing a definate gradation in power fiber within the areathatwill constitute the rod you wish to plane find a better culm and use thatculm for a lighter rod.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 22:00:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Flamed rods John,I don't use a heat gun to flame -I use a standard propane torch on mySTRIPS before planing-my 2 stage heat gun would light up the cane unlessI'mvery careful, which I ain't.Regards Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 22:01:37 1998 Subject: Re: Flamed rods John and Carsten,I've flamed outside alone, inside-outside alone, and both with addedheattreatment. I, frankly ,can't quantify any difference although I did cook onetoo much and gave it to a young friend whose father took her to the BigHornwhere the guide broke it-(Ralph-note-that's not how to make carbon rods).Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 22:01:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Flamed rods Raiph,Too much O2- use NO2 as a medium. ;-)Hank. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat May 2 22:17:53 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers John,Denver had a trombone aud. a few years ago, they picked the local guy...so Igotta wait for somebody to retire, get kicked out or die.My fiancee wants to know if your daughter wants a flute teacher.Figures the only thing I like nearly as much as music generates even less$$$! Rob from wrightj@babe.net.au Sat May 2 23:03:18 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers Nodewrrior wrote: John,This will be my first summer away from the Aspen music festival in 7years. Imay be joining you in leaving this trout desert.Any good orchestras in Durango? Rob HoffhinesSomehow I am receiving this mail I am not John from Rodmakers but did go see Billy Pate last night here in Asuteralia not sure about Durango or its orchestrasa from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat May 2 23:32:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: In Search Of... Pruett says they don't mind selling to us but they prefer to have thedealerssell it. I first ordered from them and found out Barry at anglers had it so Icalled Pruett to check availability and told them i did biz with Anglersandthey said i should buy from him. Guys I have had nothing but the bestservice from Anglers and I encourage you all to buy form them. 1-800-848- 1020.Bret from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 23:37:10 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 12:36:58 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japan On Sat, 2 May 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Hey, TonyI didn't know you blokes were so uptight about emotion-heck, I wascertifiable the day I was born and haven't improved one iota since.Hank. Hank,we're not realy, at least I'm not. Guess I just kind of enjoyed the exercise. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 00:05:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AB5264800B6; Sat, 02 May 1998 23:06:26 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 10:51 AM 5/3/98 +0800, you wrote: /***** snip'd bit's re The lovely Reed and it's availability *******/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer I've seen it listed at Amazom.com for $US35.00 but they don't yet have stocks. Hate to mention anything as crass as money but the puney $AUST makes that a $AUST 25 (approx) dollar diff in the price. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony;Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. I wonderhow Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for the bumsteer. John Channer from SalarFly@aol.com Sun May 3 01:38:13 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! In a message dated 5/2/98 1:54:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sats@gte.netwrites: Exactly. Once a section has been "glued up" it's got a taper; diameter;line- wt.; action; and about 10 other ingredients. Removing cain fromthereonout will change, to some degree, everyone of those factors. I believe the original poster was discussing planing splines, notaltering an existing rod, but when I make a rod I plan on removingat least .001 from the blank after it is glued up. Hence I make theblank that much oversize. Lately I have been planing off the enamelside of my splines for appearance before glue up. Haven't noticed any difference in strength, but a much improved appearance. What happens to a rod section when you remove .001 from the outside ofthatsection? Will it bend easier? Will it break easier? Will it slow the action? Will it change the rod wt? Yes to all the above, but depending on what the original rod was,maybe not much to even be noticed. A heavier line wt rod will beaffected less than a lighter line wt rod. An analysis usingstress curves will answer most of these questions. These are questions that I don't think anyone has answered. I've never seen itdiscussed here. Maybe not all at the same time, but it has been in one form oranother. I do know that the old masters would change the actions of rods to findnewtapers by taking a few .000 off the outside at one place or another. Yes, some did, they called it tuning the rod. I remember, you telling of changing the "feel" of a rod, by removing afew.000,to make it roll cast better. Yes to this also. One of my experimental tapers. I ended up removing.010 from a 10 inch section of the butt section. It was a drastic removalof material (at least I think so), to get any kind of discernable changein the action. I've been testing the results of removing cain from the outside (nevermorethen .005) to see what changes took place. I haven't had time to doenoughresearch to give any good answers yet. If anyone on the list can shedanylight on this, I'd be interested to hear it. I think we will have to start talking about percentages of removedmaterialto diameter to make any sense. .005 of bamboo removed closer to the tip will have a lot more effect than .005 removed near the handle. Again, an understanding of stress curves will help a great deal here. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 02:15:11 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 15:14:43 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sat, 2 May 1998, john channer wrote: At 10:51 AM 5/3/98 +0800, you wrote: /***** snip'd bit's re The lovely Reed and it's availability *******/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer I've seen it listed at Amazom.com for $US35.00 but they don't yet have stocks. Hate to mention anything as crass as money but the puney $AUST makes that a $AUST 25 (approx) dollar diff in the price. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony;Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. Iwonderhow Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for the bumsteer. John Channer It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun May 3 06:29:47 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... RO>> Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. IwondeRO>> how Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for the bumsteer.RO>>RO>> John Channer RO>It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. RO>Tony John, Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustments ever72.7 mm? from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 06:30:07 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A58B67600B6; Sun, 03 May 1998 05:31:23 MDT Subject: humblest apology Tony;I am bent over, please kick me. I should never respond right after theevening nap. My most humble apology.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 07:28:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A32149F00D2; Sun, 03 May 1998 06:29:21 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 04:28 AM 5/3/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>> Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. IwondeRO>> how Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for thebumsteer.RO>>RO>> John Channer RO>It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. RO>Tony John, Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustments ever72.7 mm? Don;Metric is one new trick this old dog will resist to the bitter end. I am acarpenter and metric would be a big pain, besides, I make enough mistakeswith the system I am used to. I apologized to Tony for presuming tocorrecthis math, I sometimes forget that anyone in the world is better at maththan I am. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why put afull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. John (confused by the world, as usual)Channer from sats@gte.net Sun May 3 09:11:37 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod JAA05405 It's like violins- and Patrick Coffey will bear me out on this, I'm sure.Guys like Stradivari, Guarneri and Bergonzi made fiddles with shortnecks,elegant ornamentation and subtle dynamic nuance to best express theBaroquemusic of their day. Along comes the Romantic era and virtually all the good old masterfiddles getliterally butchered to make them usable for the louder, more dynamicworks ofcats like Beethoven and Wagner. I agree, and don't try to "shorten" a rod that has all pieces full length. It'slike making a hot-rod out of a perfectly maintained '32 ford. Once the topischopped it's hard to go back. However, there are plenty of rods out there with tips and mid sectionsthat arebroken (dare I say mangled) The glue may be letting go and the ferrulesare amess. In my opinion, they're candidates for experimentation. My suggestion is to start on the lower section(s) first, get the generalflexabout like you want it, then do whatever it is you think would improvethetip, rather than just thin the entire length of the rod right off the bat.Thelatter method will, likely as not, produce a result you don't like and can'teasily remedy. You're right here, at least in the idea of having a method to your madness. I've experimented some with rebuilding a few rods. (I have a ton of rodsthatare missing tips, or have tips 13" long!) Just taking .002 off the rod all the way along it's surface, won't do it. removingan inch or two from one or more section. (most rods I come across are"dimensionally challenged") So the question is, where to make the cuts? I can cut at the butt trying to keep the smaller tip end which means thatI'lldo less sanding to remove outside diameter. I can try to preserve the action by cutting a little off each end, thensandingthe whole thing. I can even everything up by removing extra length from the Tip end, whichwillmake the rod stiffer. All three with DRAMATICLY change the action. All three will require different amounts of sanding in different places tokeep from getting a stress curve that looks something like the results of theL.A.earthquake on the Richter scale. I Built a sanding block with outriggers, to keep it level, much like the idea flatsurface to work on. I use different grits of sandpaper. (I occasionally scrape, but am doinglessand less of it. I check my work as often as I would if I were finishing a strip of bamboo. I'm working on a way of Controlling what I'm doing, so it's not hit andmiss. So far I've discovered that a little goes a long way. One other thing. Look at the end section of the bamboo before you start.As Darryl has said, there's Bamboo and there's bamboo. If the power fibersseemto run out toward the center, then even LESS removing of the outer fiberswillcause a Larger impact. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun May 3 09:45:10 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sun,3May 1998 10:46:56 -0400 Subject: Re: 1998 Grand Gathering, Sat., May 23 and Sun., May 24, 1998 Did you get the message a while back from me? I wanted to know if anyone was doing a glue-up or a nodeless talk. Are you all giving out any door prizes? I would be willing to give you a splice block to give away if you want. Take care... camping in the Elora Gorge area. Is there a chance you can fish or can put me in touch with some people who would like to? Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from destinycon@mindspring.com Sun May 3 10:00:51 1998 Subject: Re: Still In Search Of... Rob,Yes, I would like this taper. I guess I'll just have to wait for moreofPinky's tapers, until my book arrives (I have been waiting for more than amonth now, as I refuse to pay publisher prices). Thanks to all for yourresponses.As to A.J.'s 7'9" taper, I did throw a bit of line with the guides tapedin place, I couldn't help myself. My first impression was -I Like It- butit's not for everyone. It is a bit slower than I thought it was going tobe. (I did not, and have not, run a stress curve on it.) My initialreaction was that it will take the right caster to make it perform the wayit should. (ie. do not let just any fool use it: it's not going to comeback in the same condition.) After I have a chance to fish it I'll giveyou an up-date. Please remember this comes from a couple casts with theguides taped on. Gary H. At 10:20 PM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:Gary, I have a good 8' 6wt 2pc taper of Pinky's. I built it as a big trout rod butit throws the IL sized bass hairbugs admirably. The stress curve issimlisarto that of the Payne parabolic in the archives(!).I plan to do A.J.'s 7'9" next for a client, please tell me how yours turnedout, I'd love to hear! I just taped guides on a Driggs and casted it...whatacool action!! I'm curious to see how she fishes! Rob Hoffhines from Canerods@aol.com Sun May 3 10:30:20 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... In a message dated 98-05-03 08:33:16 EDT, you write: John, The mark-up on books is huge - Crown books (nat. bookstore chain) offersa 10%discount on all of their books. I have a discount card for Waldon bookstorethat gives me a discount there too. But if I buy a paperback novel or otherbooks at the local Costco warehouse club store I get them at about 50% oflist. The latest Tom Clancy book was $3.95 vs $7.95 suggested list price, Ithink. So all Amazon is doing is discounting from list price to increase theirvolume(low overhead business - no retail stores), while the publisher is sellingtoyou at list. (Doesn't want to sell retail and sticks it to you for theinconvenience?) But the profit is so high on any business that does comein -why not advertise? Try buying spackplugs through your local new car dealer - think they'll becheap? Will they sell them to you - heck yes. Check out a Barnes Noble or Super Crown bookstore in your town - I'll bettheydiscount special orders too. Don Burns from longroge@isu.edu Sun May 3 11:32:53 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting Davy, I'm always interested in tapers for two-handers. After I get someexperience making 7 to 9 footers I'd like to focus on spey rods for a while. In themeantime I'm trying to accumulate some tapers and ones that come with arecommendation areespecially nice to have. Thanks,Roger Davy wrote This is a little different from the current thread but... A few days ago, somebody was talking about tapers for Spey rods. I've got a good one, a thirteen-foot Gale, and I'd be happy to supply thetaper if anyone is interested. Davy from saltwein@swbell.net Sun May 3 12:13:35 1998 gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net MAA09965 Subject: Re: In Search Of... . Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. Let's see. Amazon.com buys a thousand copies from Pruett at $20 a copy(maybe as low as $18), then sells them at $35 a copy. Not a bad profitmargin! Pruett takes out a full page ad so that Amazon.com will buy 1000 (ormore copies). We see it for thity-five at amazon.com (or $40 at localstore) and think "What a deal" and bingo Visa cards are ringing up allover. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sun May 3 12:28:38 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sun,3May 1998 13:30:26 -0400 Subject: Parabolics I just finished my first parabolic, and I am concerned about the dangers in casting (if there are any). There was a recent comment about not leaving a parabolic in the hands of an inexperienced caster. Why is this? What is the timing issues? I guess I am jus overwhelmingly confused. The rod has a couple more coats of varnish on the wraps to go and then i find out for myself I guessJon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sun May 3 13:00:24 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod In a message dated 98-05-03 10:15:54 EDT, you write: Terry - I am looking for a good Granger n/s uplock reel seat. Any chanceyouhave a discard butt section with one attached you'd consider parting with? Ifso, please let me know.Thanks and Regards,Richard Tyree from flyfisher@nextdim.com Sun May 3 13:02:50 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AE7898E0274; Sun, 03 May 1998 10:50:48 PST Subject: Re: Parabolics Jon, would you leave any of your rods in inexperienced hands. Trueparabolics are slow action rods so unless the caster has enoughexperienceto feel the rod work they have trouble waiting to let the rod do the work -----Original Message----- Subject: Parabolics I just finished my first parabolic, and I am concerned about thedangers in casting (if there are any). There was a recent commentabout not leaving a parabolic in the hands of an inexperiencedcaster. Why is this? What is the timing issues? I guess I am jusoverwhelmingly confused. The rod has a couple more coats of varnishon the wraps to go and then i find out for myself I guessJon Lintvet12B College CircleIthaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558(607) 277-9781www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from rennyg@ibm.net Sun May 3 14:10:52 1998 out5.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id TAA45284 for; Sun, 3 May 1998 19:10:48 GMT Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Hank,Thanks for the response. It forced me take a closer look at the culm I hadbeenviewing as well as the 3 others I have on hand. Upon closer inspectionwith themost powerful magnifying glass I own, I now believe part, but not all, ofwhat Ihad been observing as a change in gradation of cell size was an opticalillusion. What I noticed this time was that although the cell size doesappearto become smaller toward the outside of the culm, the more significantchange isthat cells become darker with each successive layer. The interior of theinnercells is almost completely the color of the pith, with each successivelayer ofcells toward the outside exhibiting less & less of the light color. However, ifthe change in color is indicative of greater fiber strength (??), then theremaystill be some question as to the advisability of removing material fromtheoutside of the culm, thereby begging the original question.Renny FISHWOOL wrote: Renny,If you are seeing a definate gradation in power fiber within the areathatwill constitute the rod you wish to plane find a better culm and use thatculm for a lighter rod.Regards,Hank. from WayneCatt@aol.com Sun May 3 14:51:55 1998 Subject: Re: TTBBBQ IV & Rodmakers At Grayrock 98 Yet further explaination - In years past there has always been a certainamount of trading and selling at the get togethers. This years it has beenrecommended that it is formalized. That is - set up tables and let anyonethatwants display whatever. The example that comes to mind is what the localTUchapter does each spring - a swap meet of sorts - clean out the closet oftheitems that you wish to recycle and bring them along - but let's limit it tofly fishing and rod making interests. Now whose turn is it to get the rodthisyear - Chris or Reed???? from saltwein@swbell.net Sun May 3 17:20:29 1998 gw1adm.rcsntx.swbell.net RAA20375 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 17:46:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A40810100BE; Sun, 03 May 1998 16:47:36 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 11:29 AM 5/3/98 EDT, you wrote:In a message dated 98-05-03 08:33:16 EDT, you write: carpenter and metric would be a big pain, besides, I make enoughmistakeswith the system I am used to. I apologized to Tony for presuming tocorrecthis math, I sometimes forget that anyone in the world is better at maththan I am. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. John (confused by the world, as usual)Channer John, The mark-up on books is huge - Crown books (nat. bookstore chain) offersa10%discount on all of their books. I have a discount card for Waldon bookstorethat gives me a discount there too. But if I buy a paperback novel or otherbooks at the local Costco warehouse club store I get them at about 50%oflist. The latest Tom Clancy book was $3.95 vs $7.95 suggested list price,Ithink. So all Amazon is doing is discounting from list price to increase theirvolume(low overhead business - no retail stores), while the publisher is sellingtoyou at list. (Doesn't want to sell retail and sticks it to you for theinconvenience?) But the profit is so high on any business that does comein -why not advertise? Try buying spackplugs through your local new car dealer - think they'll becheap? Will they sell them to you - heck yes. Check out a Barnes Noble or Super Crown bookstore in your town - I'll bettheydiscount special orders too. Don Burns Don;I am scaring myself, I think I am getting used to paying more foreveything here. Durango is not on the way to anywhere from anywhere, soanything that comes here makes a special trip, thereby driving cost up.When gas in Albuqueque was down to .96 , we were still paying 1.29 and itdidn't come down until every radio station in the area was screaming atmaxoutput about it. Thanks everyone for telling me about Amazon, just ordered from them this morning, if it takes a month, I'll still be here.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 17:51:27 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A53810C00BE; Sun, 03 May 1998 16:52:40 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 12:15 PM 5/3/98 -0700, you wrote:. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. Let's see. Amazon.com buys a thousand copies from Pruett at $20 a copy(maybe as low as $18), then sells them at $35 a copy. Not a bad profitmargin! Pruett takes out a full page ad so that Amazon.com will buy 1000 (ormore copies). We see it for thity-five at amazon.com (or $40 at localstore) and think "What a deal" and bingo Visa cards are ringing up allover. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO I guess that's why I'm a nail pounder instead of in the add game ormarketing, just not devious enough. I sometimes loose sight of the factthat the root word of marketing is "mark", altho marketers will tell youits market.John Channer from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun May 3 18:34:58 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... RO>Don;RO> I am scaring myself, I think I am getting used to paying more forRO>eveything here. Durango is not on the way to anywhere from anywhere,soRO>anything that comes here makes a special trip, thereby driving cost up.RO>When gas in Albuqueque was down to .96 , we were still paying 1.29and itRO>didn't come down until every radio station in the area was screamingat maxRO>output about it. Thanks everyone for telling me about Amazon, justorderedRO> from them this morning, if it takes a month, I'll still be here.RO>John Channer John, Just remember: LA's crime, LA's smog, LA's freeways and LA's 11 to 12 million people.(in the greater LA area) See, doesn't Durango sound better and better? Don PS - We pay ~$1.20 for phase II anti-smog bilge-crap regular-gradegasoline out here in LA-LA land. OBTW, phase II = 10% less fuel economyover phase I, which is in turn about 5% - 10% less than the good oldstuff. Anyone else remember 12:1 compression sport cars, Sunoco 260 or ExxonSuper Extra. (both ~120 octane?) Plus where's my #@#@$#% S&H greenstamps, my free NFL football glass and how about a full-service station?Cheap gas my butt! from gwr@seanet.com Sun May 3 19:00:07 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id RAA19536 for; Subject: Trumpet/Bell Guide Source??? Hi all, Does anyone know of a source for nickel silver trumpet or bell guides?How about nickel silver tip tops with either three or four rings solderedtogether? If you'd like to move a personal collection, please contact meoff list. Thanks in advance. Russgwr@seanet.com from saweiss@flash.net Sun May 3 20:25:53 1998 Subject: Binding thread In my on-going search for rod-making stuff, today I found some thread attheflea market.Supposedly for stitching leather, hard, cotton, no fuzzies, about .022".Made by A. Lewis Thread Corp, NY. Label inside the spool reads "Morton 5CORD". Any comments on the suitability of this stuff for wrappingrough-planed sections for heat treating? It's probably too thick for glue-upof tip sections.Steve Weiss from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 21:25:46 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 10:25:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: humblest apology On Sun, 3 May 1998, john channer wrote: Tony;I am bent over, please kick me. I should never respond right after theevening nap. My most humble apology.John Channer Nothing to apologise for, not your fault we use Monopoly money over here.My big problem is that I have too damn much home brew to get through. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sun May 3 21:27:44 1998 Subject: Re: A quick fix 4 the sine wave I just put guides on a taper that I worked out and test casted it. Ishould'veboosted the tip a few thou as the sine wave effect explained inGarrison/Carmichael appeared. Being a one piece, and having put a reelseatonit and what the heck, it's MY rod I put a cleared silk wrap between the tiptop and first snake wrap. It smoothed it out beautifully! NOT the kind ofthing I'd do on a rod I'd ever sell though! But it saved an experiment fromending up as a back scatcher... Rob Hoffhines from gwr@seanet.com Sun May 3 21:33:13 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id TAA23333 for; Subject: Heddon No. 1 Sport-Special I just received a 5' 2 pc. (offset ferrule) Heddon No. 1 Sport- Specialbaitcasting rod in need of restoration. This rod is in bad shape, but itwas the owner's father's rod and will, upon restoration, be passed on tohisdaughter - otherwise it would fall into the "why bother" category. Thefacsimile of Heddon's catalog on page 204 of Mike Sinclair's book,"Heddon...," shows a drawing of this rod. This rod was previously "re-finished" and the bright red silk on one guideseems to be all that was left of the original wraps. If anyone has moreinfo on the intermediates, decals, inscriptions, ferrule wraps &c., I wouldgreatly appreciate your input. There is no ghosting from the originalintermediates (assuming that there were original intermediates as in thecatalog drawing). I would be interested in purchasing or trading for any or all of thefollowing, all apparently of of nickel plated brass:The taper (winding check)The slide band with attached triggerThe reel seat If someone has loose Heddon baitcasting parts but you're not sure if theywere from this particular model, I'd be happy to give precisemeasurementsand descriptions. Thanks much, Russgwr@seanet.com from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 21:41:28 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 10:41:04 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sun, 3 May 1998, john channer wrote: Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustmentsever72.7 mm? Don;Metric is one new trick this old dog will resist to the bitter end. I am acarpenter and metric would be a big pain, besides, I make enoughmistakeswith the system I am used to. I apologized to Tony for presuming tocorrecthis math, I sometimes forget that anyone in the world is better at maththan I am. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. John (confused by the world, as usual)Channer Metric is very good to use but imperial has advantages. When boat building (huge engeneering concerns excepted) all pretty much everyone uses is imperial, a quarter inch is less precise sounding than 6mm and a foot is easier to imagine than 30cm for eg but when talking nuts and bolts you don't need to convert fractions so most go over to metric.Thou of an inch is a good size and it looks strange even to my eyes when I see the French dimensions in TPF, so it's all what you're accostomed to using. I guess I just round the centres off to 73mm :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from FLYROD777@aol.com Sun May 3 21:42:39 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... Agree, it is a very good book and I use it all the time. Mark Hallowell from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 21:52:51 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 10:52:23 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Parabolics On Sun, 3 May 1998, Jon Lintvet wrote: I just finished my first parabolic, and I am concerned about the dangers in casting (if there are any). There was a recent comment about not leaving a parabolic in the hands of an inexperienced caster. Why is this? What is the timing issues? I guess I am jus overwhelmingly confused. The rod has a couple more coats of varnish on the wraps to go and then i find out for myself I guess Until you get the hang of it, you'll prob want to push the rod too hard as at first you'll find that in attempting longer casts the cast will collapse at about mid distance.As I make my rods nodeless, I have found on my one and only rod made with yellow glue (a disaster) my Father (Loomis user) cracked scarfs in the butt just above the cork.Keep in mind these rods do all the work and you have to learn how they work. Depending on what rods you've used before you may take a little time to learn this (if you're used to Loomis rods give yourself a while) but I'd suggest lawn casting for a while, then putting the rod away and try again next day etc rather than just deciding you're going to crack this sucker in an afternoon.I know people who've fished glass a lot generaly pick paras up and cast them straight away. IMHO they are worth learning to use properly. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 3 21:54:53 1998 (205.236.248.232) Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Chris,I am not building too many rods at present, I am in the process of puttingtogethera new beveller that will allow me to build a rod without touching a planeatall!I really want to get away from hand planing but at the same time buildinga rod from the same culm. This requires equipment that must not make too muchscrap,which was not the case with many of the production machines of the past.I amnotinterested in any of the old designs using milling cutters that hadgeometrysuitedto cutting metal.Fly fishermen would be prepared to invest in a cane rod if they could buyit offthe shelf and the price was around the $750- $800 mark. There is a hugemarketoutthere that cannot be tapped into by hand planers because they cannot buildthemfast enough.Producing cane rods that can be displayed and handled in tackle shops is Ithinkthe way to go.Len Codella said once that he could sell 10 of my rods before he sold a$1200rod.The problem is I have run out of steam and need to get a more professionalapproach. I cannot build rods and also machines, so the rods have beenmore orlesshalted for the present.Terry C.J. Wohlford wrote: Terry,God knows, that's a good point (I'm still wrapping this rod silk). I doknowthey have their own computer controlled beveled for rough tapering butI'mguessing that they are hand planing final taper. Maybe that Morgan planerwouldsave time? I heard they are planning on selling 1 tip rods starting around$650(see page 26 of the latest issue of "The Bamboo Fly Rod" if you want toknowwho I'm talking about) I don't really know how they plan on doing it but itgotme thinking just the same (and that got me in trouble). We all sure know how labor intensive this craft is but let's just supposethatsomeone has a background in manufacturing processes. Might come inhandy forstreamlining production. What can be automated? Seems like there aremanylaborintensive products out on the market but if the right machines andprocessesare applied.... As for the labor force....well...I hate to say it but I'veseensome pretty cheap labor here in California. Maybe a company would evensend itover the border or overseas. I by no means am advocating this but couldseehowa company could rationalize doing so. I have seen a lot of fishing gearmanufactured oversees. As for the popularity of Bamboo...who knows what the next marketplacefad willbe. The 90's have surprised me a bit because it seems like people havebeenlooking for more quality products and willing to pay a little extra for it.Although I think that $2000 might be a tad high for anyone. We are alsoon theverge of seeing the baby boomer generation getting ready to retire. Thisworries me some. Are they all going to take up fly fishing? I'm going tohaveto drive out into the middle of Nevada to find some peace! I know thatthismight sound a bit selfish but I'd rather fight fish than crowds. Anyway,fromyour past posts it sounds like your business has or is starting to pick upandbased on your web site, I personally agree with most of how you marketyourrods and wish you luck. These are just some thoughts and all disclaimers apply.Best Regards.Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I hope these guys that intend to take on the big guys are not going tohandplane!It might also be worth looking back to a posting last week concerningthewidow of WesJordan having to sell some of his personal rods to cover an operation.There is no money in bamboo rods, there never has been, it is too labourintensive. Companies like T&T and Winston make their money from thegraphiterods they put out and other catalogue goodies.I guess if a guy is used to low pay and long hours then rodmakingwould beok, but to someone that is used to a good salary and benefits it is notmuchof dream.Terry from dhaftel@att.com Sun May 3 21:58:58 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 09:00:38-0400 Subject: I'm back! 4.0.995.52 Art & Mike, Thanks for the assistance. As you can see, I have successfully resubscribed to the list. I'll behere once again, lurking and occasionally pestering with questions, etc. Thanks again! Dennis Haftel ( from work) from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 22:03:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A05056F00E6; Sun, 03 May 1998 21:04:48 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 04:33 PM 5/3/98 -0600, you wrote:RO>Don;RO> I am scaring myself, I think I am getting used to paying more forRO>eveything here. Durango is not on the way to anywhere from anywhere,soRO>anything that comes here makes a special trip, thereby driving costup.RO>When gas in Albuqueque was down to .96 , we were still paying 1.29and itRO>didn't come down until every radio station in the area was screamingatmaxRO>output about it. Thanks everyone for telling me about Amazon, justorderedRO> from them this morning, if it takes a month, I'll still be here.RO>John Channer John, Just remember: LA's crime, LA's smog, LA's freeways and LA's 11 to 12 million people.(in the greater LA area) See, doesn't Durango sound better and better? Don PS - We pay ~$1.20 for phase II anti-smog bilge-crap regular-gradegasoline out here in LA-LA land. OBTW, phase II = 10% less fuel economyover phase I, which is in turn about 5% - 10% less than the good oldstuff. Anyone else remember 12:1 compression sport cars, Sunoco 260 or ExxonSuper Extra. (both ~120 octane?) Plus where's my #@#@$#% S&H greenstamps, my free NFL football glass and how about a full-service station?Cheap gas my butt! Don;Anytime anything pisses me off all I have to do is look up at the mountainsand I'm over it instantly.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 22:03:54 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 11:03:40 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young On Sun, 3 May 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO Steve,happily. The taper is on my computer at home so I'll need to get therefirst.This taper is via WC who mic'd a PHY Driggs he was restoring. It's said Paul made a lot of variations intentional and otherwise but regardless of all that this is a very nice rod to cast. I made it for myself and on the first day was fishing with it when a bloke I met on the stream asked touse it. He fished with it all day then bought it. I still need to make another. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 22:11:29 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A22858200E6; Sun, 03 May 1998 21:12:40 MDT Subject: Re: Binding thread At 07:29 PM 5/3/98 -0600, you wrote:In my on-going search for rod-making stuff, today I found some thread attheflea market.Supposedly for stitching leather, hard, cotton, no fuzzies, about .022".Made by A. Lewis Thread Corp, NY. Label inside the spool reads "Morton 5CORD". Any comments on the suitability of this stuff for wrappingrough-planed sections for heat treating? It's probably too thick for glue-upof tip sections.Steve Weiss Dr. Steven;Make sure it's not waxed, from my years in the horse business I can tellyou that most thread for leather work and shoe repair is waxed, it mightleave marks on your rod or possibly burn.Just a thought.John Channer from hexagon@odyssee.net Sun May 3 22:13:20 1998 (205.236.248.232) Subject: Re: In Search Of... Tony,I remember when I live in South Africa in the early 70s they changed tothemetric system. It was to be done on a certain day (M day I think it wascalled)on that day everything changed over, all the shop scales and gas pumps etc.The company I worked for had all the engineering drawings changed over tometricand were issued on M day and the imperial drawings removed.Imperial does not convert very tidily to metric plus the fact all themachineshad imperial leadscrews so we had to convert back as we were working!This wasinthe days before elecronic calculatorsTerry Tony Young wrote: On Sun, 3 May 1998, john channer wrote: Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustmentsever72.7 mm? Don;Metric is one new trick this old dog will resist to the bitter end. I am acarpenter and metric would be a big pain, besides, I make enoughmistakeswith the system I am used to. I apologized to Tony for presuming tocorrecthis math, I sometimes forget that anyone in the world is better atmaththan I am. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why putafull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. John (confused by the world, as usual)Channer Metric is very good to use but imperial has advantages. When boatbuilding (huge engeneering concerns excepted) all pretty much everyoneuses is imperial, a quarter inch is less precise sounding than 6mm anda foot is easier to imagine than 30cm for eg but when talking nuts andbolts you don't need to convert fractions so most go over to metric.Thou of an inch is a good size and it looks strange even to my eyes whenI see the French dimensions in TPF, so it's all what you're accostomed tousing.I guess I just round the centres off to 73mm :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 22:15:40 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 11:15:33 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sun, 3 May 1998 flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: RO>> Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. IwondeRO>> how Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for thebumsteer.RO>>RO>> John Channer RO>It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. RO>Tony John, Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustments ever72.7 mm? Any bets on what the Euro (currency) is going to do? Not only are they all metric but but nobody can decide on who will be the main bank to theextent they will be playing musical chairs where the Dutch will be first, but only enough the Germans are swapping a rock solid currency for one that is only as good as all the other countries involved which include Ireland, Italy and (I think) Greece! I'll keep my Aussies, our currency may only be good for Monopoly but at least everybody knows the rules. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 22:22:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4B159600E6; Sun, 03 May 1998 21:23:29 MDT Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young At 11:03 AM 5/4/98 +0800, you wrote:On Sun, 3 May 1998, Steve Trauthwein wrote: Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO Steve,happily. The taper is on my computer at home so I'll need to get therefirst.This taper is via WC who mic'd a PHY Driggs he was restoring. It's said Paul made a lot of variations intentional and otherwise but regardless of all that this is a very nice rod to cast. I made it for myself and on the first day was fishing with it when a bloke I met on the stream asked touse it. He fished with it all day then bought it. I still need to make another. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony;Is the Driggs a parabolic action or did Young make other actions,too? John Channer from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Mon May 4 00:09:50 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA25168 +0000 Subject: Re: In Search Of... I don't think that it is that devious. Probably just an agreement by thepublisher notto sell under list so he doesn't undersell his distributors (he certainlyis capable ofunderselling them all, if he did, why would they distribute the book?). So, the publisherwinds up being a "last resort" if you cannot find it more conveniently(locally) orcheaper (a distributor). George Bourke ----------From: john channer Subject: Re: In Search Of...Date: Sunday, May 03, 1998 9:50 AM At 12:15 PM 5/3/98 -0700, you wrote:. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then whyput afull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. Let's see. Amazon.com buys a thousand copies from Pruett at $20 acopy(maybe as low as $18), then sells them at $35 a copy. Not a bad profitmargin! Pruett takes out a full page ad so that Amazon.com will buy 1000 (ormore copies). We see it for thity-five at amazon.com (or $40 at localstore) and think "What a deal" and bingo Visa cards are ringing up allover. Regards, SteveIndependence, MO I guess that's why I'm a nail pounder instead of in the add game ormarketing, just not devious enough. I sometimes loose sight of the factthat the root word of marketing is "mark", altho marketers will tell youits market.John Channer from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 00:26:22 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 13:26:13 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sun, 3 May 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,I remember when I live in South Africa in the early 70s they changed tothemetric system. It was to be done on a certain day (M day I think it wascalled)on that day everything changed over, all the shop scales and gas pumpsetc.The company I worked for had all the engineering drawings changed overtometricand were issued on M day and the imperial drawings removed.Imperial does not convert very tidily to metric plus the fact all themachineshad imperial leadscrews so we had to convert back as we were working!This wasinthe days before elecronic calculatorsTerry You must have worn out a few slide rules.You're right, the two don't convert to one another easily at all and M day is a bit painful. At the time all the school kids were issued with little 1 litre vol cubes that showed the relationship between linear and volumetric measurements and this is where metric is very good. It wasactually illegal to trade using imperial measurements from M day on, so shops weren't allowed to say things like cabbage tupence h'pney (whops decimal currency was 20 years before that :-) a 1lb/500gms My lathe is metric and it's a hasle converting to thou when makingferrules.I think you have a 60 deg pitch for your screws and metric is 58 deg, or visa versa? I guess that was just to keep things exciting. I used to have an old UK made car with a few UNC, Imperial and metric nuts and bolts all over it. I wound up resorting to fencing wire to hold things together when ever possible, it was all the same gauge. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 00:28:14 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 13:28:06 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO Tony;Is the Driggs a parabolic action or did Young make other actions,too? John Channer Others on the list could answer if PHY made non paras, but the Driggs is one. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Finanplanr@aol.com Mon May 4 02:04:47 1998 Subject: Re: Cross Forsyth Rod...Lucky you! Congratulations! Your Cross rod is a find that should make you very happy. Ihappen to have one just like it, except mine is 8 foot...the only one of thatlength I have ever seen, although I have seen several 9 footers on rod listsover the years. Mine is unsusual in that is is single built...quite a few ofthe Cross rods were double built, as I recall...The rodmaker??? Oh yes,youmay have heard of him...fellow by the name of Wes Jordan...Yes, THE WesJordan, who apparenlty owned Cross Rod and Tackle before he went towork forOrvis... MIne is particluarly interesting as it was one of four rods I bought thatgotme inetersted in cane rods so many years ago...I did restore mine with thefull intermediates, and original guides and I have cast it after restoration.Although it prefers a silk line, it cast like dream...like a dream. If youhave a copy of my book, you will find a photo of my Cross Forsyth on page85,on the drying rack, right after varnishing...Yes, I still have it...No, Idon't think I would ever sell it.... Stu Kirkfield from flyrod@artistree.com Mon May 4 02:30:58 1998 AAA29026 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Terry,Wow. That's some feedback. I remember recently talking with a gentlemanfromRick'sRods in Colorado (http://www.ricksrods.com/). He mentioned they madeproductionequipment. I'm pretty sure we were talking about bamboo since that wasall I wastalking about. I mention planing forms and he mentions this equipmentthey makein the$10K to $20K range. Kind of like I pull out a knife and he pulls out a canon. Seems like $700-$800 is, for lack of a better word, the "target" pricerange.Interesting to here Len Codella comments. All I know is if I bring a bamboorodinto aany of the small fly fishing shops in the area people are falling over eachother toget a look at it. It's always interesting because most people have not evenseenareal live bamboo fly rod let alone cast one. Graphite sure is boring. But asyouknowthere is whole generation raised on graphite so it almost seems like youhave todesign the split cane tapers to mimic graphite (whoa..heresy!) or in otherwordsafast dry fly action. I personally would love to get away from using the plane. Between thecomputerkeyboards and the planing I worry about having problems with my handswhen I getolder. My father's generation complain about their backs. My generationwillcomplainabout their wrists. Hope to hear more about your endeavors in the future. Best Regards. Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I am not building too many rods at present, I am in the process of puttingtogethera new beveller that will allow me to build a rod without touching a planeatall!I really want to get away from hand planing but at the same timebuilding arod from the same culm. This requires equipment that must not make toomuch scrap,which was not the case with many of the production machines of thepast. I amnotinterested in any of the old designs using milling cutters that hadgeometrysuitedto cutting metal.Fly fishermen would be prepared to invest in a cane rod if they could buyitoffthe shelf and the price was around the $750- $800 mark. There is a hugemarketoutthere that cannot be tapped into by hand planers because they cannotbuildthemfast enough.Producing cane rods that can be displayed and handled in tackle shops isIthinkthe way to go.Len Codella said once that he could sell 10 of my rods before he sold a$1200rod.The problem is I have run out of steam and need to get a moreprofessionalapproach. I cannot build rods and also machines, so the rods have beenmore orlesshalted for the present.Terry C.J. Wohlford wrote: Terry,God knows, that's a good point (I'm still wrapping this rod silk). I doknowthey have their own computer controlled beveled for rough tapering butI'mguessing that they are hand planing final taper. Maybe that Morganplanerwouldsave time? I heard they are planning on selling 1 tip rods startingaround$650(see page 26 of the latest issue of "The Bamboo Fly Rod" if you want toknowwho I'm talking about) I don't really know how they plan on doing it butitgotme thinking just the same (and that got me in trouble). We all sure know how labor intensive this craft is but let's justsupposethatsomeone has a background in manufacturing processes. Might come inhandy forstreamlining production. What can be automated? Seems like there aremanylaborintensive products out on the market but if the right machines andprocessesare applied.... As for the labor force....well...I hate to say it but I'veseensome pretty cheap labor here in California. Maybe a company wouldeven senditover the border or overseas. I by no means am advocating this but couldseehowa company could rationalize doing so. I have seen a lot of fishing gearmanufactured oversees. As for the popularity of Bamboo...who knows what the next marketplacefadwillbe. The 90's have surprised me a bit because it seems like people havebeenlooking for more quality products and willing to pay a little extra forit.Although I think that $2000 might be a tad high for anyone. We are alsoontheverge of seeing the baby boomer generation getting ready to retire.Thisworries me some. Are they all going to take up fly fishing? I'm going tohaveto drive out into the middle of Nevada to find some peace! I know thatthismight sound a bit selfish but I'd rather fight fish than crowds. Anyway,fromyour past posts it sounds like your business has or is starting to pickupandbased on your web site, I personally agree with most of how youmarket yourrods and wish you luck. These are just some thoughts and all disclaimers apply.Best Regards.Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I hope these guys that intend to take on the big guys are not going tohandplane!It might also be worth looking back to a posting last week concerningthewidow of WesJordan having to sell some of his personal rods to cover an operation.There is no money in bamboo rods, there never has been, it is toolabourintensive. Companies like T&T and Winston make their money fromthegraphiterods they put out and other catalogue goodies.I guess if a guy is used to low pay and long hours then rodmakingwouldbeok, but to someone that is used to a good salary and benefits it is notmuchof dream.Terry from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 04:28:30 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 17:28:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) OK, here's the Driggs taper for all you paraholics again. THESE ARE ON SIX ( 6) INCH CENTERS 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us Mon May 4 07:29:16 1998 with ESMTP id 269 for ;Mon, 4 May 1998 07:32:53 -0500 Subject: Ah....Springtime Sorry to take up the space but I thought many of you would be interestedin the following news brief I picked up today from the web.Jim Kubichek 06:09 PM ET 05/01/98 Animal rights group wants to ban park fishing GATLINBURG, Tenn. (Reuters) - Animal rights activistscampaigning for a ban on fishing in U.S. National Parks sent outa man dressed as a fish to plead their case Friday.The man, calling himself ``Gill the Fish,'' delivered aletter to officials at Great Smoky Mountains National Park andparaded around the gate of the park for about an hour passingout information.The campaign is being pushed by People for the EthicalTreatment of Animals, a group which says that ``animal sufferingof any kind is not sport'' and that ``fish feel pain'' whencaught.Smoky Mountain park prohibits fishing for native brook trout but allows the taking of brown and rainbow trout, two speciesnot native to the area. A spokeswoman said the park did not planto change its policies because it considers fishing vital tocontrolling populations of both non-native species. ^REUTERS@ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 07:39:38 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 20:39:27 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime On Mon, 4 May 1998 jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: Sorry to take up the space but I thought many of you would be interestedin the following news brief I picked up today from the web.Jim Kubichek 06:09 PM ET 05/01/98 Animal rights group wants to ban park fishing GATLINBURG, Tenn. (Reuters) - Animal rights activistscampaigning for a ban on fishing in U.S. National Parks sent outa man dressed as a fish to plead their case Friday.The man, calling himself ``Gill the Fish,'' delivered aletter to officials at Great Smoky Mountains National Park andparaded around the gate of the park for about an hour passingout information.The campaign is being pushed by People for the EthicalTreatment of Animals, a group which says that ``animal sufferingof any kind is not sport'' and that ``fish feel pain'' whencaught.Smoky Mountain park prohibits fishing for native brook trout but allows the taking of brown and rainbow trout, two speciesnot native to the area. A spokeswoman said the park did not planto change its policies because it considers fishing vital tocontrolling populations of both non-native species. ^REUTERS@ Whaddaya recon Gill'd weigh cleaned and filleted? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 08:10:29 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I built a two and a half footer and a four footer using the dimensions youdescribe, and with a Sears heat gun I have no problem getting up to temp.In fact, will likely built one an inch larger on each pipe. I did stuffinsulation between the two sections, and used an adjustable elbow at theexhaust end instead of simply laying a piece of metal to protect the heatgun. I lay my oven on its side and use hardware cloth to place the bambooon. It also works well when vertical.Jerry SniderAt 08:20 AM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:Hi All, I am going to build the Neuneman heat gun oven. Has anyone built thisthing.His pipe measurments are in metric, but I can't seem to find stove pipethatsmall. All I can get is 6" and 4" dia stove pipe. I don't know if my heat gunwill heat up a pipe that big. Does anyone have successful dimentions orotherpipe diameters that worked for them.Thanks Mark Mills from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon May 4 08:33:59 1998 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young I took Tony's Driggs taper, ran it thru Stetzer's hexrod to get 5" spacingandit worked out to be a stellar rod. Casting the para this radical is adifferent thing from a typical taper but nothing too weird for a goodcaster.I am curious to see how it is to fish the thing with such intangables ashowit picks up line off the water etc. Rob Hoffhines from saweiss@flash.net Mon May 4 09:17:14 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Heat Gun I built a two and a half footer and a four footer using the dimensions youdescribe, and with a Sears heat gun I have no problem getting up to temp.In fact, will likely built one an inch larger on each pipe. I did stuffinsulation between the two sections, and used an adjustable elbow at theexhaust end instead of simply laying a piece of metal to protect the heatgun. ...... Jerry,I'm missing something in your description. Doesn't putting insulationbetween the two pipes interfere with the air flow?Steve Weiss from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 09:40:01 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 22:38:56 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young On Mon, 4 May 1998, Nodewrrior wrote: I took Tony's Driggs taper, ran it thru Stetzer's hexrod to get 5" spacingandit worked out to be a stellar rod. Casting the para this radical is adifferent thing from a typical taper but nothing too weird for a goodcaster.I am curious to see how it is to fish the thing with such intangables ashowit picks up line off the water etc. Rob Hoffhines Please note, it's not my taper. It came via WC.I've mentioned before how much I like this taper. Using a WF#3 you can realy shoot line. The most noticeable thing about it is the very tight loop you can cast, even into a decent breeze.Local conditions dictate mostly nymphing and because the rod casts all the way back, picking up line is smooth and casting reasonably big and I hate to admit it weighted nymphs is about as good as I can imagine it getting. I actually think this is a good taper to use as an ititial go at paras as it's short and it has an obvious style to it in use.Having said said it's great for nymphing, obviously it's good for dry fly too it's just not a dry action. Not great for roll casting though.The bloke who bought the rod I made who has since become a good friendwas talking about it in the pub the day he decided to buy it and we were drinking wine. Penfolds (it's cheep enough to drink by the bucket here ;-) ) and he said it was a delicate little number with a cheeky after taste. The rod, can't remember the wine. Make, fish, enjoy. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from MMills1189@aol.com Mon May 4 09:43:50 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Jerry,Thanks for the response. How do you put insulation in between the twopipes,does'nt it restrict the air flow since the air must flow down the largepipeand up into the small pipe? Thanks Mark Mills. from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 4 09:44:33 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Bamboo Entrepreneurs actually mackintosh stole windows from Xerox and gates stole it fromMac. ----------From: SealRite[SMTP:SealRite@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 02, 1998 5:11 AM Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Bill Gates visited an old firm called Xerox in the late seventies orearlyeighties. He was contracted by Apple computer to write a new opertaingsystem.Xerox had terminated and shelved a project designed to automate theworkplace. Xeros's project had computers that had push button icons,drag anddrop file structure, something called e mail, etc. It was designed bya bunchof "futurists" that had a vision, unfortunately it was not shared byXerox. Bill basically stole the whole concept of windows from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Mon May 4 09:57:30 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: sharkskin they do make fine but its not real fine. I bought some years ago mountedon plastic handles an kind of used them as abrasive planes. My feelingsis that they are good for node filing but way to course for sandingstrips except if you are of the roughing the glue surface school. ----------From: Ragnarig[SMTP:Ragnarig@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 02, 1998 7:17 PM Subject: sharkskin Is anybody familiar with an abrasive made by Sandvik called"Sharkskin" orsomething like that? It's a thin self-adhesive metal sheet with a uniform pattern ofpin-prickswhich do the sanding. I picked up a couple sheets of coarse-grain butIwonder if they also make fine. Has anybody used this for rodmaking? Any impressions/observations? Once this stuff is stuck to a level block, it'll almost level like aplane. Davy from Canerods@aol.com Mon May 4 09:59:07 1998 Subject: Re: Cross Forsyth Rod...Lucky you! In a message dated 98-05-04 03:12:56 EDT, you write: Stuart, Any chance of a new reprinting of your book? I've been seaching for a copyforseveral years - always a day late or a dollar short, it seems. Don Burns from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 10:00:41 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I would stay far away from candy thermometers. I tried using two ofthem,and there was a 25 degree!! difference between the two. However, when Iswitched the SAME thermometer between the top and the bottom of theoven,the temp range varied less than 4 degrees per thermometer! J. Snider At 06:57 AM 5/2/98 -0500, you wrote:MMills1189 wrote: Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was alsogoing toinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the topandone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along the pipe.Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark Mark, I drilled a hole and put in a thermometer about 2/3 of the way up theoven into the 4" section. Works for me. Two or three thermometerswould probably be more accurate but the air is moving up so I figure itspretty consistent in the 4" tube. Rick from kgabd@clsp.uswest.net Mon May 4 10:20:49 1998 Subject: Re: Cross Forsyth Rod...Lucky you! Canerods wrote: In a message dated 98-05-04 03:12:56 EDT, you write: Ihappen to have one just like it, except mine is 8 foot...the only one ofthatlength I have ever seen, although I have seen several 9 footers on rodlistsover the years. Mine is unsusual in that is is single built...quite a few ofthe Cross rods were double built, as I recall...The rodmaker??? Oh yes,youmay have heard of him...fellow by the name of Wes Jordan...Yes, THE WesJordan, who apparenlty owned Cross Rod and Tackle before he went towork forOrvis... MIne is particluarly interesting as it was one of four rods I bought thatgotme inetersted in cane rods so many years ago...I did restore mine withthefull intermediates, and original guides and I have cast it afterrestoration.Although it prefers a silk line, it cast like dream...like a dream. If youhave a copy of my book, you will find a photo of my Cross Forsyth onpage 85,on the drying rack, right after varnishing...Yes, I still have it...No, Idon't think I would ever sell it.... Stu Kirkfield >> Stuart, Any chance of a new reprinting of your book? I've been seaching for acopy forseveral years - always a day late or a dollar short, it seems. Don BurnsDon, I'm with you - that book is hard to come by. Kevin. from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 10:32:45 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber If you cut cross sections of bamboo and study it under the microscope youwill find that, in measuring the wall thickness and the diameter of eachfiber in a fiber bundle, they will be rather consisently the same size,thickness, etc. So Darryl is absolutely correct. These fiber bundles areassociated with the vascular or water/food conducting cells, and sort oflook like a Darth Vader mask, the larger cells being the conducting cells.As you go to the interior, these bundles of vascular bundles becomefartherapart, i.e., are separated by cortex parenchyma (thin walled) cells. Thefarther you go towards the center of the culm, the fewer bundles there areand the farther apart they are. As long as the bundles are densely packed,they will be just as strong on the inner surface as they are on the outersurface. Theoretically, if you selected a strip of bamboo packed SOLIDwithbundle fibers, i.e. something you might select for an 8-9 wt rod and youwant to build a 4 wt., you probably could build the thing inside out, i.e.the nodes to the center, and (again, in theory) it would likely be just asstrong. I state this from a plant anatomist's point of view and not that ofan engineer!Jerry SniderAt 07:41 PM 5/1/98 -0700, you wrote:Darryl, I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, such asanoak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example, cottonwood,was atleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cell structurethan thefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, myquestionhere iswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo with smallercells, nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given your pointofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestion seemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I am curiouswhetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn't applyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no morethan.005 fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon May 4 10:36:53 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA261396054; Mon, 4 May 1998 08:34:14 -0700 Subject: RE: Weakening a rod Davy, Terry, thanks or the input. I agree that you must have a plan before you start sanding. When I sit a 6' rod next to a mid tip from a 9' it is very clear even without the dial caliper that the majority of the work is in the top half of the tip section. This also seems like the most dangerous part to mess with. The mid is very close to the butt of the 6' in these two rods, but the tip is larger at the upper end although pretty close on the lower half. The 9' rod is the standard Heddon made 7/8 wt.? or so. I also don't like the idea of wrecking a 9' rod to make a short one. It's the heavier line wt. taper that makes them virtually of non-use to me. I've always used mismatched tips and mids from the bone pile, or I've ordered a set of tips from one of the catalogs and mated them with an orphan mid section. What is also true with these mid/tip rods is that if you get the rod in the ballpark and then test cast it and work a little more until you have an action that is acceptable, you're done. They won't likely feel like a 6' rod made from raw materials and an exact taper, but they're a starting point for developing the interest further for some. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 10:38:58 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber The larger vs. the smaller cells in an Oak cross section simply indicatesspring wood and summer wood. Early in the spring, when the plant resumesgrowth, it grows rapidly (lots of moisture, good climitological conditions)and the cells are larger in size, and there are fewer of them. As theseason continues and there is less moisture, the cells are smaller. Duringthe winter, little growth occurs. This is why trees have "annual" growthrings. Even works in the tropics, where there are wet and dry seasons butno winter. However, in these wood types, the cells/tissues consist of farmore than merely fibers, there is a mixture of fibers and conducting cells.If one could grow a "tree" with ONLY fibers, wow!!Jerry Snider At 02:54 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: I didn't say there was _no_ difference. This is what I said: Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. You lost me with your comparison between oak and cottonwood.A better comparison would be between larger cells and smallercells within the same piece of oak. Darryl **************************************************************************I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, such asan oak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example,cottonwood,was atleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cell structure than thefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, myquestion here iswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo withsmaller cells, nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given yourpoint ofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestion seemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I amcurious whetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn'tapplyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no more than.005 fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from flyfisher@nextdim.com Mon May 4 11:10:44 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A72610F01E0; Mon, 04 May 1998 09:04:54 PDT Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) Hi all, How many patterns are there for the "Driggs" and variants?Followingare the two that I have built.7'2" "Driggs" 7'2" Variant0"-.068" 0"-.0645"-.082" 5"-.080"10"- .103" 10"-.100"15"-.115" 15"-.110"20"-.138" 20"-.134"25"-.147" 25"-.142"30"-.158" 30"-.154"35"- .175" 35"-.170"40"-.195" 40"-.190"43"-.200" 43"-.200"0"-.207" 0"-.204"5"-.215" 5"-.210"10"- .225" 10"-.220"15"-.240" 15"-.236"20"-.253" 20"-.250"25"-.263" 25"-.262"30"-.270" 30"-.270"35"- .270" 35"-.270"40"-.270" 40"-.270"43"-.270" 43"-.270"Have fun,Dell CoppockSpokane, WA-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) OK, here's the Driggs taper for all you paraholics again. THESE ARE ON SIX ( 6) INCH CENTERS 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" Tony, Would you be so kind as to send me this taper. I have a basterdizedform of the taper and would like to compare it before I build one. Thank you. Regards, SteveIndepdenence, MO /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from sniderja@email.uc.edu Mon May 4 11:11:06 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Oops! Sorry. I used THREE sections of pipe, a 7" outer section, a 5"section (with insulation between the two), and the inner 4" section. sortof a hybrid between the Nunemann (sp?) and the newly designed one on theRodmaker's Web page. At 08:18 AM 5/4/98 -0600, you wrote: -----Original Message-----From: Jerry Snider Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 7:13 AMSubject: Re: Heat Gun I built a two and a half footer and a four footer using the dimensions youdescribe, and with a Sears heat gun I have no problem getting up to temp.In fact, will likely built one an inch larger on each pipe. I did stuffinsulation between the two sections, and used an adjustable elbow attheexhaust end instead of simply laying a piece of metal to protect the heatgun. ...... Jerry,I'm missing something in your description. Doesn't putting insulationbetween the two pipes interfere with the air flow?Steve Weiss Jerry Snidere-mail: Sniderja@email.uc.eduhttp://www.biology.uc.edu/snider/jerry.htm from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon May 4 11:18:59 1998 Mon, 4 May 1998 17:14:57 +0200 Subject: Risp: Vocation ----------Da: Boretti Marco A: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Data: domenica 21 dicembre 1997 17.09 Dear Friends,I want inform you that I am in vocation from 25 December to 04.January1998.I send to all subscriber my best wishes, Merry Christmas and Happy NewYear. Marco Boretti from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon May 4 11:19:04 1998 Subject: Info about making beveler patterns. Dear Rodmakers friends,I have two bevelers machines : one from Al Bellinger, the other fromDarrylWhithead.I work very well with that of Darryl Whithead, but I found some problemsinbuildingpatterns with the machine of Bellinger.I should therefore be much grateful if you would send me by E-mail or Faxsome compleate explanations about the way of making patterns andcuttingthe right taper on wood patterns by using this beveler of Bellinger. Sincerely,Marco Boretti. m.boretti@agonet.it Fax . 0039.523.320088 from cmj@post11.tele.dk Mon May 4 11:23:31 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA14174 +0200 Subject: Sv: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young LAA26544 I took Tony's Driggs taper, ran it thru Stetzer's hexrod to get 5" spacingandit worked out to be a stellar rod. Casting the para this radical is adifferent thing from a typical taper but nothing too weird for a goodcaster.I am curious to see how it is to fish the thing with such intangables ashowit picks up line off the water etc. Rob Hoffhines How about sharing this taper with the rest of us, please. regards Carsten from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon May 4 11:58:39 1998 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) Here's the one I did and it seems way off the others... Heck, it works!!1 .0705 .09010 .10615 .12620 .14225 .15230 .16035 .18540 .20045 .21050 .218 55 .22860 .24565 .25870 .26375 .270 etc. Rob Hoffhines from gespliesst@bluewin.ch Mon May 4 12:02:26 1998 (METDST) Subject: New source for bamboo? Dear friends! Today i`ve seen a new adress (source?) for tonkin on the www:http://www.progresstrading.com/ The sell some cheap tonkin, think it`s not the real stuff we need,but mabye a cheap source for beginners for testing the art ofrodmaking?! Regards Stefan/Switzerland from saltwein@swbell.net Mon May 4 12:09:28 1998 gw4adm.rcsntx.swbell.net MAA12985 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young Nodewrrior wrote: I took Tony's Driggs taper, ran it thru Stetzer's hexrod to get 5" spacingandit worked out to be a stellar rod. Casting the para this radical is adifferent thing from a typical taper but nothing too weird for a goodcaster.I am curious to see how it is to fish the thing with such intangables ashowit picks up line off the water etc. Rob Hoffhines Rob, Do you have the figures handy for the 5" spacing on the "Driggs"? Regards, SteveIndependence, MO from thramer@presys.com Mon May 4 12:58:27 1998 0000 Subject: A.J.'s 3wt HiAll,My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYS beenthey are a rod for the experienced bamboo user. NO heavy fish played offthe rod, NO bead heads, NO wieghted flies. Small to medium dries only. The 4wts will do all of the above but I have always viewed the 3wtsas the lightest taper that bamboo should be used for, an outlook that isborn out by the the old makers rods.the confusion results from the stupid method of line rating that manynewer anglers have grown up with. ie: the graphite underrating of lineweights. This confusion has resulted in some misunderstanding before,read: Iwant a delicate rod for trout ,answer: 4wt . It is not the faultof the new angler rather it is a result of the plastic boys ignorance ofthe AFTMA line rating system. Sorry for the rant (again)A.J.Thramer from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon May 4 13:01:07 1998 Subject: Re: Risp: Vacation Marco,I know I've been a little behind this year but you've just made me feelright up-to-date. ;-)Gary H. At 04:58 PM 5/4/98 +0200, you wrote: ----------Da: Boretti Marco A: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Data: domenica 21 dicembre 1997 17.09 Dear Friends,I want inform you that I am in vocation from 25 December to 04.January1998.I send to all subscriber my best wishes, Merry Christmas and Happy NewYear. Marco Boretti from m.boretti@agonet.it Mon May 4 13:24:11 1998 Subject: R: Risp: Vacation Excuse me,But I send the E-mail message for error.Sincerely,Marco ----------Da: Heidt A: rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Data: lunedá 4 maggio 1998 20.04 Marco,I know I've been a little behind this year but you've just made mefeelright up-to-date. ;-)Gary H. At 04:58 PM 5/4/98 +0200, you wrote: ----------Da: Boretti Marco A: RODMAKERS@mail.wustl.edu Data: domenica 21 dicembre 1997 17.09 Dear Friends,I want inform you that I am in vocation from 25 December to04.January1998.I send to all subscriber my best wishes, Merry Christmas and HappyNewYear. Marco Boretti from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon May 4 13:30:27 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA202696468; Mon, 4 May 1998 11:27:48 -0700 Subject: Thramer 6' 4 wt. I recently finished a 6' 4 wt. rod made on a Thramer taper and wow!!! This rod was for my nine year old daughter's birthday and we began our casting lessons this past weekend. Key words here are "Envy", "May I borrow your fly rod honey" etc. The wraps are purple (sound familiar), what is it with little girls and the color purple? She doesn't even like Barney!! Now I'll take her to the upper Deschutes in a couple of months where only the mosquitos are thicker than the rising fish, and not by much I might add. This is just one of those group hug posts, no real scientific content. The rod is beautiful and I'm a happy camper. Perhaps too much coffee!!! Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from rennyg@ibm.net Mon May 4 13:34:44 1998 out4.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id SAA36138 for; Mon, 4 May 1998 18:34:37 GMT Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Jerry,Thanks for the additional information. Fascinating! I don't mind beingabsolutelywrong when I learn something in the process. Unfortunately, it's all toooftenI'm just absolutely wrong.Renny Jerry Snider wrote: If you cut cross sections of bamboo and study it under the microscopeyouwill find that, in measuring the wall thickness and the diameter of eachfiber in a fiber bundle, they will be rather consisently the same size,thickness, etc. So Darryl is absolutely correct. These fiber bundles areassociated with the vascular or water/food conducting cells, and sort oflook like a Darth Vader mask, the larger cells being the conducting cells.As you go to the interior, these bundles of vascular bundles becomefartherapart, i.e., are separated by cortex parenchyma (thin walled) cells. Thefarther you go towards the center of the culm, the fewer bundles thereareand the farther apart they are. As long as the bundles are densely packed,they will be just as strong on the inner surface as they are on the outersurface. Theoretically, if you selected a strip of bamboo packed SOLIDwithbundle fibers, i.e. something you might select for an 8-9 wt rod and youwant to build a 4 wt., you probably could build the thing inside out, i.e.the nodes to the center, and (again, in theory) it would likely be just asstrong. I state this from a plant anatomist's point of view and not thatofan engineer!Jerry SniderAt 07:41 PM 5/1/98 -0700, you wrote:Darryl, I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, such asanoak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example, cottonwood,was atleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cell structurethan thefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, myquestionhere iswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo withsmallercells, nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given your pointofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestion seemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I amcuriouswhetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn't applyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no morethan.005 fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from stpete@netten.net Mon May 4 13:48:11 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA01024 for Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell OK, Dell, which rod did you prefer? Rick Dell wrote: Hi all, How many patterns are there for the "Driggs" and variants?Followingare the two that I have built.7'2" "Driggs" 7'2" Variant0"-.068" 0"-.0645"-.082" 5"-.080"10"- .103" 10"-.100"15"-.115" 15"-.110"20"-.138" 20"-.134"25"-.147" 25"-.142"30"-.158" 30"-.154"35"- .175" 35"-.170"40"-.195" 40"-.190"43"-.200" 43"-.200"0"-.207" 0"-.204"5"-.215" 5"-.210"10"- .225" 10"-.220"15"-.240" 15"-.236"20"-.253" 20"-.250"25"-.263" 25"-.262"30"-.270" 30"-.270"35"- .270" 35"-.270"40"-.270" 40"-.270"43"-.270" 43"-.270"Have fun,Dell CoppockSpokane, WA from stpete@netten.net Mon May 4 13:52:19 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA01258 for Subject: Re: Thramer 6' 4 wt. CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote: I recently finished a 6' 4 wt. rod made on a Thramer taper and wow!!!This rod was for my nine year old daughter's birthday and we began ourcasting lessons this past weekend. Key words here are "Envy", "May Iborrow your fly rod honey" etc. The wraps are purple (sound familiar),what is it with little girls and the color purple? She doesn't even likeBarney!! Now I'll take her to the upper Deschutes in a couple of monthswhere only the mosquitos are thicker than the rising fish, and not bymuchI might add. This is just one of those group hug posts, no real scientificcontent. The rod is beautiful and I'm a happy camper. Perhaps too muchcoffee!!! Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mac, This is a taper that I missed when I was booted from the list by someinfernal snafu that only computer wizards understand. Would you mindsharing the taper? (If Mr. Thramer has made it public. Thank you!) Thanks, Rick from destinycon@mindspring.com Mon May 4 13:56:17 1998 Subject: Re: A.J.'s 3wt A.J.I believe I started this with my "First Impression" of "MyConstruction"of "Your Taper"....after a FEW casts with the guides TAPED on. As we allknow this is NOT a valid evaluation of any rod, so I would like to iterate:I was surprised NOT disappointed. It was slower than I THOUGHT it wouldbe (without doing a stress curve this was just a feeling). And likeyourself I don't think it is for the average angler. Once again I'mexcited about this rod and in NO way wanted to disparage you or the taper.I'm sorry if you or anyone took it that way.Gary H. At 11:03 AM 5/4/98 -0700, you wrote:HiAll,My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYS beenthey are a rod for the experienced bamboo user. NO heavy fish played offthe rod, NO bead heads, NO wieghted flies. Small to medium dries only. The 4wts will do all of the above but I have always viewed the 3wtsas the lightest taper that bamboo should be used for, an outlook that isborn out by the the old makers rods.the confusion results from the stupid method of line rating that manynewer anglers have grown up with. ie: the graphite underrating of lineweights. This confusion has resulted in some misunderstanding before,read: Iwant a delicate rod for trout ,answer: 4wt . It is not the faultof the new angler rather it is a result of the plastic boys ignorance ofthe AFTMA line rating system. Sorry for the rant (again)A.J.Thramer from flyrod@artistree.com Mon May 4 14:12:16 1998 MAA00987 Subject: Re: New source for bamboo? Noticed it was in the LA area. Maybe someone would be kind enough tostop by and check it out for the list? Progress Trading Co.663 Brea Canyon Rd. Suite 2Walnut, California91789- 3045Phone: 909-869-9244Fax: 909-869-9344 gespliesst@bluewin.ch wrote: Dear friends! Today i`ve seen a new adress (source?) for tonkin on the www:http://www.progresstrading.com/ The sell some cheap tonkin, think it`s not the real stuff we need,but mabye a cheap source for beginners for testing the art ofrodmaking?! Regards Stefan/Switzerland from Finanplanr@aol.com Mon May 4 15:23:20 1998 Subject: Re: The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod...Master's Secrets of Restoration &Repair I have received a number of emails from folks who have inquired about thepossibility of a second edition of my book, "The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod...AMaster's Secrets of Restoration and Repair". Please be advised that I amactively searching for a publisher to do just that! It's very gratifying tosee such interest. Thanks for making my day! Of course, if Robert Redford approaches me to make a movie based on mybook,that would be okay with me also! Stu Kirkfield from flyfisher@nextdim.com Mon May 4 15:23:43 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A27D2640184; Mon, 04 May 1998 13:18:05 PDT Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell Hi Rick, I prefer the original.Dell C.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell OK, Dell, which rod did you prefer? Rick Dell wrote: Hi all, How many patterns are there for the "Driggs" and variants?Followingare the two that I have built.7'2" "Driggs" 7'2" Variant0"-.068" 0"-.0645"-.082" 5"-.080"10"- .103" 10"-.100"15"-.115" 15"-.110"20"-.138" 20"-.134"25"-.147" 25"-.142"30"-.158" 30"-.154"35"- .175" 35"-.170"40"-.195" 40"-.190"43"-.200" 43"-.200"0"-.207" 0"-.204"5"-.215" 5"-.210"10"- .225" 10"-.220"15"-.240" 15"-.236"20"-.253" 20"-.250"25"-.263" 25"-.262"30"-.270" 30"-.270"35"- .270" 35"-.270"40"-.270" 40"-.270"43"-.270" 43"-.270"Have fun,Dell CoppockSpokane, WA from thramer@presys.com Mon May 4 15:37:00 1998 Subject: Re: A.J.'s 3wt Heidt wrote: A.J.I believe I started this with my "First Impression" of "MyConstruction"of "Your Taper"....after a FEW casts with the guides TAPED on. As we allknow this is NOT a valid evaluation of any rod, so I would like to iterate:I was surprised NOT disappointed. It was slower than I THOUGHT itwouldbe (without doing a stress curve this was just a feeling). And likeyourself I don't think it is for the average angler. Once again I'mexcited about this rod and in NO way wanted to disparage you or thetaper.I'm sorry if you or anyone took it that way.Gary H. At 11:03 AM 5/4/98 -0700, you wrote:HiAll,My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYS beenthey are a rod for the experienced bamboo user. NO heavy fish played offthe rod, NO bead heads, NO wieghted flies. Small to medium dries only.The 4wts will do all of the above but I have always viewed the 3wtsas the lightest taper that bamboo should be used for, an outlook that isborn out by the the old makers rods.the confusion results from the stupid method of line rating that manynewer anglers have grown up with. ie: the graphite underrating of lineweights. This confusion has resulted in some misunderstanding before,read: Iwant a delicate rod for trout ,answer: 4wt . It is not the faultof the new angler rather it is a result of the plastic boys ignorance ofthe AFTMA line rating system.Sorry for the rant (again)A.J.Thramer I didn't take it that way at all, I was concerned that someone was goingto make the 3wt for a customer which is OK with me by the way. I simplywanted to make it clear that an indelicate user can damage the light 3wt. I could have made them more durable by sacrificing some of thedelicacy in the tip, a descision I declined to do. Please enjoy!A.J.Thramer from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Mon May 4 15:49:18 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 04 May 98 16:48:27 EDT Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Jerry, So would we see the same in cane, i.e., "spring/faster" growth, and"nonspring/slower" growth, and would this effect cell structure orstrengthand fiber density? Is slower growth always stronger? Does "fastergrowth" get stronger over time, i.e. age? I'm only guessing here, notbeing a botanist, but if culms achieve mature height in one season, thereis no slow growth in a culm to speak of, unlike oaks. And they do age,cell structure improves in strength with age. A penny for your thoughts.Bob. th ageAt 11:37 AM 5/4/98 -0400, you wrote:The larger vs. the smaller cells in an Oak cross section simply indicatesspring wood and summer wood. Early in the spring, when the plantresumesgrowth, it grows rapidly (lots of moisture, good climitologicalconditions)and the cells are larger in size, and there are fewer of them. As theseason continues and there is less moisture, the cells are smaller. Duringthe winter, little growth occurs. This is why trees have "annual" growthrings. Even works in the tropics, where there are wet and dry seasons butno winter. However, in these wood types, the cells/tissues consist of farmore than merely fibers, there is a mixture of fibers and conductingcells.If one could grow a "tree" with ONLY fibers, wow!!Jerry Snider At 02:54 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote: I didn't say there was _no_ difference. This is what I said: Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. You lost me with your comparison between oak and cottonwood.A better comparison would be between larger cells and smallercells within the same piece of oak. Darryl **************************************************************************I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, suchas anoak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example,cottonwood,wasatleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cellstructurethan thefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, myquestionhere iswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo withsmallercells, nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given yourpoint ofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestionseemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I amcuriouswhetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn'tapplyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no morethan.005 fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith betweenfibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from RHD360@Maine.Maine.Edu Mon May 4 15:49:20 1998 MAINE.maine.edu(IBM VM SMTP V2R3) with TCP; Mon, 04 May 98 16:48:29 EDT Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) Tony, What's the origin or meaning of "Driggs"? I'm guessing it's not aform of EC currency for use down under, nor a new ale, but then ...what anice complement to Mr. Young to have an ale named after him. Bob. At 05:28 PM 5/4/98 +0800, you wrote:OK, here's the Driggs taper for all you paraholics again. THESE ARE ON SIX ( 6) INCH CENTERS 0" - 203"6" - 190"12" - 160"18" - 150"24" - 138"30" - 115"36" - 095"42" - .070" 0" - 265"6" - 265"12" - 265"18" - 260"24" - 245"30" - 225"36" - 215"42" - 205" /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Robert M. Milardo17 Merrill Hall Univ. of MaineOrono, ME 04469207 581- 3128 from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Mon May 4 15:50:39 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA141984879; Mon, 4 May 1998 13:47:59 -0700 Subject: RE: Thramer 6' 4 wt. Hi Rick, I don't know if this taper was an earlier post by A.J. or not. He guided me through the making of this rod and I don't have the taper. I am one of the fortunate beginners who has a pro to show me the process. I accessed the taper at his shop and didn't record it. I'm sure if he sees this and it's a taper he wants to share he will provide it to you as he did several others a couple weeks back. Macmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon May 4 16:22:39 1998 (205.236.249.128) Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Chris,I had both hands operated on for carpal tunnel about 4 years, the surgeonsaid Ihad thetoughest cartilage he had seen. He could hardly cut it! The dead fingersarenot aproblem any more but I do not have the strength to hold a plane for longperiods, thefingers start to ache.I was off work for a total of almost 12 weeks and was paid by thecompany I amemployedwith. I often think what would have happened if I had been rodmaking as afulltimeliving!TerryC.J. Wohlford wrote: Terry,Wow. That's some feedback. I remember recently talking with agentleman fromRick'sRods in Colorado (http://www.ricksrods.com/). He mentioned they madeproductionequipment. I'm pretty sure we were talking about bamboo since that wasall Iwastalking about. I mention planing forms and he mentions this equipmenttheymake in the$10K to $20K range. Kind of like I pull out a knife and he pulls out acanon. Seems like $700-$800 is, for lack of a better word, the "target" pricerange.Interesting to here Len Codella comments. All I know is if I bring abamboorod into aany of the small fly fishing shops in the area people are falling over eachother toget a look at it. It's always interesting because most people have notevenseen areal live bamboo fly rod let alone cast one. Graphite sure is boring. Butasyou knowthere is whole generation raised on graphite so it almost seems like youhavetodesign the split cane tapers to mimic graphite (whoa..heresy!) or in otherwords afast dry fly action. I personally would love to get away from using the plane. Between thecomputerkeyboards and the planing I worry about having problems with my handswhen Igetolder. My father's generation complain about their backs. My generationwillcomplainabout their wrists. Hope to hear more about your endeavors in the future. Best Regards. Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I am not building too many rods at present, I am in the process ofputtingtogethera new beveller that will allow me to build a rod without touching aplane atall!I really want to get away from hand planing but at the same timebuilding arod from the same culm. This requires equipment that must not make toomuchscrap,which was not the case with many of the production machines of thepast. Iam notinterested in any of the old designs using milling cutters that hadgeometrysuitedto cutting metal.Fly fishermen would be prepared to invest in a cane rod if they couldbuy itoffthe shelf and the price was around the $750- $800 mark. There is ahugemarket outthere that cannot be tapped into by hand planers because they cannotbuildthemfast enough.Producing cane rods that can be displayed and handled in tackle shopsis Ithinkthe way to go.Len Codella said once that he could sell 10 of my rods before he sold a$1200 rod.The problem is I have run out of steam and need to get a moreprofessionalapproach. I cannot build rods and also machines, so the rods have beenmoreor lesshalted for the present.Terry C.J. Wohlford wrote: Terry,God knows, that's a good point (I'm still wrapping this rod silk). I doknowthey have their own computer controlled beveled for rough taperingbut I'mguessing that they are hand planing final taper. Maybe that Morganplanerwouldsave time? I heard they are planning on selling 1 tip rods startingaround$650(see page 26 of the latest issue of "The Bamboo Fly Rod" if you wanttoknowwho I'm talking about) I don't really know how they plan on doing itbutit gotme thinking just the same (and that got me in trouble). We all sure know how labor intensive this craft is but let's justsupposethatsomeone has a background in manufacturing processes. Might come inhandyforstreamlining production. What can be automated? Seems like thereare manylaborintensive products out on the market but if the right machines andprocessesare applied.... As for the labor force....well...I hate to say it but I'veseen> > > some pretty cheap labor here in California. Maybe a companywould evensend itover the border or overseas. I by no means am advocating this butcouldsee howa company could rationalize doing so. I have seen a lot of fishing gearmanufactured oversees. As for the popularity of Bamboo...who knows what the nextmarketplace fadwillbe. The 90's have surprised me a bit because it seems like people havebeenlooking for more quality products and willing to pay a little extra forit.Although I think that $2000 might be a tad high for anyone. We arealso ontheverge of seeing the baby boomer generation getting ready to retire.Thisworries me some. Are they all going to take up fly fishing? I'm goingtohaveto drive out into the middle of Nevada to find some peace! I know thatthismight sound a bit selfish but I'd rather fight fish than crowds.Anyway,fromyour past posts it sounds like your business has or is starting to pickupandbased on your web site, I personally agree with most of how youmarketyourrods and wish you luck. These are just some thoughts and all disclaimers apply.Best Regards.Chris Wohlford Terence Ackland wrote: Chris,I hope these guys that intend to take on the big guys are not going tohandplane!It might also be worth looking back to a posting last weekconcerningthewidow of WesJordan having to sell some of his personal rods to cover anoperation.There is no money in bamboo rods, there never has been, it is toolabourintensive. Companies like T&T and Winston make their money fromthegraphiterods they put out and other catalogue goodies.I guess if a guy is used to low pay and long hours then rodmakingwouldbeok, but to someone that is used to a good salary and benefits it isnotmuchof dream.Terry from tfinger@services.state.mo.us Mon May 4 16:31:34 1998 SMTP idQAA18048 for ; Mon, 4 May 1998 16:31:50 - Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Bob Milardo wrote: Jerry, So would we see the same in cane, i.e., "spring/faster" growth, and"nonspring/slower" growth, and would this effect cell structure orstrengthand fiber density? Is slower growth always stronger? Does "fastergrowth" get stronger over time, i.e. age? I'm only guessing here, notbeing a botanist, but if culms achieve mature height in one season, thereis no slow growth in a culm to speak of, unlike oaks. And they do age,cell structure improves in strength with age. A penny for your thoughts.Bob. from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon May 4 16:33:55 1998 Subject: Re: The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod...Master's Secrets of RO>I have received a number of emails from folks who have inquired abouttheRO>possibility of a second edition of my book, "The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod...ARO>Master's Secrets of Restoration and Repair". Please be advised that IamRO>actively searching for a publisher to do just that! It's very gratifyingtoRO>see such interest. Thanks for making my day! RO>Of course, if Robert Redford approaches me to make a movie based onmy book,RO>that would be okay with me also! RO>Stu Kirkfield Stu, If you need a balding, over-weight, aging main-character role filled -I'll work cheap. Try Dick Spurr @ the Classic Angler url, he publishes many cane rodrelated reprints. Email me if you need his email address or the urlsite. MEanwhile, standing in line waiting for a copy of your book. Tight lines, Don Burns from hexagon@odyssee.net Mon May 4 16:34:36 1998 (205.236.249.128) Subject: Re: In Search Of... Tony,Whitworth threads are 55 deg as are BSF(british standard fine) all theothersare 60deg including metric, unc and unfTerryTony Young wrote: On Sun, 3 May 1998, Terence Ackland wrote: Tony,I remember when I live in South Africa in the early 70s they changed tothemetric system. It was to be done on a certain day (M day I think it wascalled)on that day everything changed over, all the shop scales and gas pumpsetc.The company I worked for had all the engineering drawings changedover tometricand were issued on M day and the imperial drawings removed.Imperial does not convert very tidily to metric plus the fact all themachineshad imperial leadscrews so we had to convert back as we wereworking! Thiswas inthe days before elecronic calculatorsTerry You must have worn out a few slide rules.You're right, the two don't convert to one another easily at all and Mday is a bit painful. At the time all the school kids were issued withlittle 1 litre vol cubes that showed the relationship between linear andvolumetric measurements and this is where metric is very good. It wasactuallyillegal to trade using imperial measurements from M day on, so shopsweren't allowed to say things like cabbage tupence h'pney (whopsdecimal currency was 20 years before that :-) a 1lb/500gmsMy lathe is metric and it's a hasle converting to thou when makingferrules.I think you have a 60 deg pitch for your screws and metric is 58 deg, orvisa versa? I guess that was just to keep things exciting. I used to havean old UK made car with a few UNC, Imperial and metric nuts and boltsallover it. I wound up resorting to fencing wire to hold things togetherwhen ever possible, it was all the same gauge. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon May 4 16:53:59 1998 Subject: Re: A.J.'s 3wt I appreciate your rant A.J., I just loved the graceful way that 3wt handledline. I'll make a sweet blonde one for myself someday. Rob Hoffhines from anglport@con2.com Mon May 4 16:59:43 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young Amen,Art I took Tony's Driggs taper, ran it thru Stetzer's hexrod to get 5" spacingand.. Rob Hoffhines How about sharing this taper with the rest of us, please. regards Carsten from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon May 4 17:06:57 1998 Subject: Re:Avoiding embarassment I hope I didn't step on any toes in the thought that I might build a 7'9" onsomeone elses (A.J.'s) taper (ie blood sweat and tears). I didn't realizethatmaybe not everybody would be as generous as A.J. has been in sharing hisknowledge. I for one, am grateful! As it turns out I'll be doing a 4wt of myown design but in the future if the idea of using someone's taper for $$bothers anybody PLEASE say so in the posting of that taper. I would hopethatwe would all respect the designer's wishes. Rob Hoffhines from Nodewrrior@aol.com Mon May 4 17:14:18 1998 Subject: Re: "Driggs" e pluribus unum Steve Those are 5" spacings in my earlier post.Build the rod...it's pretty neato- Rob from anglport@con2.com Mon May 4 17:24:06 1998 Subject: Re: The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod...Master's Secrets of Restoration& Repair Stu,Who would you want to play the part of the dip.............(tube)?Art At 04:18 PM 5/4/98 EDT, you wrote:I have received a number of emails from folks who have inquired aboutthepossibility of a second edition of my book, "The Fine Bamboo Fly Rod...AMaster's Secrets of Restoration and Repair". Please be advised that I amactively searching for a publisher to do just that! It's very gratifying tosee such interest. Thanks for making my day! Of course, if Robert Redford approaches me to make a movie based on mybook,that would be okay with me also! Stu Kirkfield from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon May 4 17:47:58 1998 Subject: RE:A.J.'s 3wt RO> the confusion results from the stupid method of line rating that manyRO>newer anglers have grown up with. ie: the graphite underrating of lineRO>weights. This confusion has resulted in some misunderstanding before,RO>read: Iwant a delicate rod for trout ,answer: 4wt . It is not the faultRO>of the new angler rather it is a result of the plastic boys ignorance ofRO>the AFTMA line rating system.RO>Sorry for the rant (again)RO>A.J.Thramer He stoots - he scores. Once again - 100% dead on. Want an 8 wt. rod , just buy a 6 wt $age,IMHO. Don Burns from jcole10@juno.com Mon May 4 18:38:47 1998 19:36:51 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Gun Anyone I just finished building an oven today . Have it insulated and can heatit to 220" in 15 min or less, but I need to know where I can find athermometer that reads 350 and higher. Also needs to have a small stem. John Cole On Mon, 04 May 1998 10:59:01 -0400 Jerry Snider writes:I would stay far away from candy thermometers. I tried using two of them,and there was a 25 degree!! difference between the two. However, when Iswitched the SAME thermometer between the top and the bottom of the oven,the temp range varied less than 4 degrees per thermometer! J. Snider At 06:57 AM 5/2/98 -0500, you wrote:MMills1189 wrote: Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was alsogoing toinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the top andone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along the pipe.Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark Mark, I drilled a hole and put in a thermometer about 2/3 of the way up theoven into the 4" section. Works for me. Two or three thermometerswould probably be more accurate but the air is moving up so I figure itspretty consistent in the 4" tube. Rick _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 19:26:51 1998 Tue, 5 May 1998 08:26:19 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell OK Dell, I'll ask.I thought I had an original and the ones you listed aren't the same soooo, would the real Driggs please stand up? Tony On Mon, 4 May 1998, Dell wrote: Hi Rick, I prefer the original.Dell C. OK, Dell, which rod did you prefer? Rick Dell wrote: Hi all, How many patterns are there for the "Driggs" and variants?Followingare the two that I have built. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 19:30:10 1998 Tue, 5 May 1998 08:29:00 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) On Mon, 4 May 1998, Robert Milardo wrote: Tony, What's the origin or meaning of "Driggs"? I'm guessing it's not aform of EC currency for use down under, nor a new ale, but then ...what anice complement to Mr. Young to have an ale named after him. Bob. I'm not an expert on PHY, I just like his rods but I believe Driggs is a river he liked to fish and the Driggs River Special was his idea of a pretty good rod for the vacinity. It's a pretty good rod for my vacinity too. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from lblan@provide.net Mon May 4 19:45:02 1998 Subject: RE: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) The Driggs River is a small Upper Peninsula (Michigan) stream. Larry Blan -----Original Message-----From: owner-rodmakers@wugate.wustl.eduOn Behalf Of Robert MilardoSent: Monday, May 04, 1998 12:50 PM Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) Tony, What's the origin or meaning of "Driggs"? I'm guessing it's not aform of EC currency for use down under, nor a new ale, but then ...what anice complement to Mr. Young to have an ale named after him. Bob. from mcliff@mssl.uswest.net Mon May 4 19:51:42 1998 mssl1.mssl.uswest.net (8.8.3/8.8.3) with ESMTP id SAA24457 for Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime Yeah, we've got 'em here, too. Want to ban fishing in Glacier &Yellowstone. Frankly, I think they are about the least of a fisherman's worries rightnow. At least they're principled. Their reasoning is that fish haveneurochemical pain systems like ours, (true) that they must feel the samesort of pain (sounds right), and therefore we should never catch them. Idon't agree, but I've got a lot more respect for them than the fools whothink meat is born in plastic wrap, not to mention the subsidized foolswhoclearcut, strip mine & etc . . . I'll shut up now. Sorry for the bandwidth. jim_kubichek@s-hamilton.k12.ia.us wrote: Sorry to take up the space but I thought many of you would be interestedin the following news brief I picked up today from the web.Jim Kubichek 06:09 PM ET 05/01/98 Animal rights group wants to ban park fishing GATLINBURG, Tenn. (Reuters) - Animal rights activistscampaigning for a ban on fishing in U.S. National Parks sent outa man dressed as a fish to plead their case Friday.The man, calling himself ``Gill the Fish,'' delivered aletter to officials at Great Smoky Mountains National Park andparaded around the gate of the park for about an hour passingout information.The campaign is being pushed by People for the EthicalTreatment of Animals, a group which says that ``animal sufferingof any kind is not sport'' and that ``fish feel pain'' whencaught.Smoky Mountain park prohibits fishing for native brook trout but allows the taking of brown and rainbow trout, two speciesnot native to the area. A spokeswoman said the park did not planto change its policies because it considers fishing vital tocontrolling populations of both non-native species. ^REUTERS@ from k5vkq@ix.netcom.com Mon May 4 20:00:38 1998 20:00:04 dfw-ix11.ix.netcom.com via smap (V1.3) Subject: Re: Ah....Springtime Sorry, but this reminds me of the Bill Clinton burial kit; a hatpin, a hotwater bottle and a matchbox. First you use the hot water bottle to give itan emema, then you use the hatpin to let out all the hot air, then you burythe remains in the matchbox. Regards,Onis from flyfisher@nextdim.com Mon May 4 20:31:52 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AABD4CA01E4; Mon, 04 May 1998 18:26:21 PDT Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell Hi Tony, you don't suppose Paul had a odd sense of humor and made upthesedifferent tapers just to give people some thing to try to figure out. Hemade his Para-15 with both wet and dry action tips so maybe some of theDriggs were designed with a similiar, with a rod as light as the Driggs Iwouldn't think soDell Coppock.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell OK Dell, I'll ask.I thought I had an original and the ones you listed aren't the samesoooo, would the real Driggs please stand up? Tony On Mon, 4 May 1998, Dell wrote: Hi Rick, I prefer the original.Dell C. OK, Dell, which rod did you prefer? Rick Dell wrote: Hi all, How many patterns are there for the "Driggs" and variants?Followingare the two that I have built. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Mon May 4 20:42:53 1998 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young (fwd) RO>I'm not an expert on PHY, I just like his rods but I believe Driggs is aRO>river he liked to fish and the Driggs River Special was his idea of aRO>pretty good rod for the vacinity. It's a pretty good rod for my vacinitytoo RO>Tony I think the Driggs is a river in - New Jersey? Don Burns from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon May 4 20:53:29 1998 Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young In a message dated 98-05-04 10:44:06 EDT, you write: Tony: You are in good company. The late, great AJ McClane liked the para's paragraph titled, "The Fly Rod for Small Streams", page 335 in the firstedition of his great work, "McClane's Standard Fishing Encyclopedia". Thereferenced is a description of the PHY Perfectionist which I remember himreferring to in other writings. Not sure how it stacks up against theDriggs,but the Perfectionist is definitlly in the para catagory. After his passing,his Perfectionist went for auction at one of the prestigious NE US events;often wondered what the sale price was.Regards,Richard from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon May 4 20:56:31 1998 Subject: Driggs Info I have been following the Driggs thread - The numbers that Tony postedare the original taper in 6" format that was used on their mill - I got itwhen I made some rods for Todd Young back in 86. The name Driggs derivesfromthe 'Original' name Driggs River Special (Circa 1956). The Driggs River islocated in the Upper P of Michigan and is a delightfull stream to fish - Oneof the things that Paul was know for was that he tried different tapersandthere were also a few machining errors that have added some varients aswell.FYI - the Driggs is a 7' 2" rod nad NOT a 7' 3". from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon May 4 21:01:10 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Heat Gun John, go to Jerry fosters page and look up Grand Technologies underCommercialtools and parts. i went up there the other day and bought a strip heateranda thermometer i think that is the one you want.bret from flyfisher@nextdim.com Mon May 4 21:12:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A43A54101E4; Mon, 04 May 1998 19:06:50 PDT Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell Hi all, I quote Ernest Schwiebert from "Trout". The Driggs Special wasnamed rod for 5x tippets with power to turn heavy fish away from logjams andbrushpiles. He also says that Paul was a restless artisan that made manyvariations on his basic themes.Dell Coppock -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell OK Dell, I'll ask.I thought I had an original and the ones you listed aren't the samesoooo, would the real Driggs please stand up? Tony On Mon, 4 May 1998, Dell wrote: Hi Rick, I prefer the original.Dell C. OK, Dell, which rod did you prefer? Rick Dell wrote: Hi all, How many patterns are there for the "Driggs" and variants?Followingare the two that I have built. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon May 4 21:17:25 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolics Jon,Don't worry about the parabolic action-give it a go-the first one I builtI didn't like at first but I like it now-I had to adjust my timing from mystraight line tapers.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon May 4 21:17:56 1998 Subject: Re: Re: In Search Of... John,Tony's talking $aust,not$us.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Mon May 4 21:18:13 1998 Subject: Re: Re: In Search Of... Don , I believe that's more like 127 mm as it's 25.4 mm/ ".Hank. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Mon May 4 21:21:06 1998 Subject: The Driggs 7'2"-2 7/8 oz While the Driggs was developed for use on narrow trout streams it is aperfectly efficient on average and large waters, as it will cast muchfurtherthan good control is to be had. It carries a rather powerful tip, and theaction is well down in the butt, but its speed is sufficient for good drywork, and with nymphs, it is a delight to use. There are also those whofindlarge bluegills a picnic on this rod. there are many, as in the case of theMidge, who make this their main rod. Ladies love it, there is never thattiresome top-heavy feel, and it doesn't tire small wrists, as a longer rodmight. for casting under 35 feet, use a 5 wght line. if the castingaverages40 feet or more, use a 4 wght line. with silver ferrules and our two-bandreelseat, the rod finishes at 23/4 oz. If I am not mistaken the Driggs is ariver in Michigan that Paul Young used to fish. Oh yeah the above wastaken from a Paul H. young rod catalog that Jack Young gave me around 1974when Iused to stop in and see him and buy flytying material and talk cane rods. Iasked him for an apprenticeship and he told me to get a better paying job.Bret from WayneCatt@aol.com Mon May 4 21:31:27 1998 Subject: Re: A.J.'s 3wt AJ -I don't feel that you are 'Ranting' - you are right on with what you havesaid. Your words remind me of an article several years ago in one of the FFmags - for the story they interviewed several of the graphitemanufactures -Don Green was one of them. In his interview Don commented that 'they'couldmake delicate rods and showed the author an experimental but added thattherod wouldn't survive in the real world of fishing. What most modern flyfishers don't realize is that a GOOD rod willleadercast through it's design distance. Today, the casual flyfisher is given theimage of distance as king - which is fine in some fishing situations. Asituation that some refer to as the 'penile effect' in flyfishing. from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Mon May 4 21:36:28 1998 Tue, 5 May 1998 10:36:17 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant/Tony Young On Mon, 4 May 1998, Fallcreek9 wrote: In a message dated 98-05-04 10:44:06 EDT, you write: paras as it's short and it has an obvious style to it in use.Having said said it's great for nymphing, obviously it's good for dry fly too it's just not a dry action. >> Tony: You are in good company. The late, great AJ McClane liked thepara's paragraph titled, "The Fly Rod for Small Streams", page 335 in the firstedition of his great work, "McClane's Standard Fishing Encyclopedia". Thereferenced is a description of the PHY Perfectionist which I rememberhimreferring to in other writings. Not sure how it stacks up against theDriggs,but the Perfectionist is definitlly in the para catagory. After hispassing,his Perfectionist went for auction at one of the prestigious NE USevents;often wondered what the sale price was.Regards,Richard I'm not trying to teach anybody anything here but I'll give the reason I like paras even for dry flying. This is possibly the reason McClane like them too. The paras action is such that you can get a cast happening with very little effort, in fact in the case of dry fly fishing which the paras aren't normaly conected with the lift of the line off the water once you get the hang of it is the one and only backcast before shooting the line again. I know you can do this with a dry action but it's smoother with these rods. Of course when nymphing and the line drifts passed you and is full length behind you, it's just a flick and it's back upstream. I've mentioned I'm not an expert on PHY but I think he fished mainly dry? The terrain here in Western Australia is not ideal for fly fishing. The banks can be steep and unwadeable with heavy cover but also normal type streams but very heavy cover. The more false casting you do the better chance of hangups, hence my preferance for paras. Their only drawback is that if you lend one to someone they think all cane rods are like paras and as Terry has mentioned this isn't a good thing if you want to sell them. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from Rsholiton@aol.com Mon May 4 23:25:20 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago rodmakers John, You need to look up Dick Griffith, who moved from Chicago to Durango. He'sonKing Ntn Rd. and is a great caster and knowledgable fisherman and hatedChicago! Bob from FLYROD777@aol.com Mon May 4 23:26:40 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers Me too! Mark from FLYROD777@aol.com Mon May 4 23:31:08 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Flamed rods I concur with the torch. I think you can control it better. My .02 Mark from Fallcreek9@aol.com Mon May 4 23:39:35 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun In a message dated 98-05-04 19:43:57 EDT, you write: John - Try Grangers 1-800-323-0620 Granger # 6T455 , $26.00 (1996 catalog # 387), -40 to 450dF, digital,goodaccuracy (think + - 2dF), approx .125" stem. Mine works just fine.Regards,RTyree from FLYROD777@aol.com Mon May 4 23:45:20 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolics(training) Ok everyone, explain true parabolics for us green horns. I have usedwebstersand the internet to truely understand, but I'm no closer. So train me! Mark Hallowell from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue May 5 00:02:24 1998 Tue, 5 May 1998 13:02:11 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell On Mon, 4 May 1998, Dell wrote: Hi Tony, you don't suppose Paul had a odd sense of humor and made upthesedifferent tapers just to give people some thing to try to figure out. Hemade his Para-15 with both wet and dry action tips so maybe some oftheDriggs were designed with a similiar, with a rod as light as the Driggs Iwouldn't think soDell Coppock. I don't know if PHY had that kind of sence of humor but I do :-) /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Tue May 5 00:08:13 1998 Tue, 5 May 1998 13:08:00 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Paul Young "Driggs" variant-Dell On Mon, 4 May 1998, Dell wrote: Hi all, I quote Ernest Schwiebert from "Trout". The Driggs Special wasnamed rod for 5x tippets with power to turn heavy fish away from logjams andbrushpiles. Dell Coppock That's about the size of it. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from saweiss@flash.net Tue May 5 00:18:14 1998 Subject: Re: A.J.'s 3wt -----Original Message----- Subject: A.J.'s 3wt HiAll,My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYS been.... AJ,I admit that I am fairly new to casting bamboo, but am a proficient caster.I have a late model Orvis 7' 3-wt Battenkill that casts both 2-wt and 4-wtlines better than a 3-wt (all DT). It also casts a triangle taper 3-4 betterthan the DT3.Is this mostly my inexperience with bamboo or are there possibly othervariables in rod design working here?Steve Weiss from Ragnarig@aol.com Tue May 5 08:10:49 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolics(training) Dear Mark Don't get too hung-up on the term "parabolic". I think it's just a termcoined by Everett Garrison (or some other engineering type) to define theaction of rods by P&M and Payne etc. He called it that because the graphed taper described a parabola, i.e. itflexed markedly in the area of the grip. Nowadays we just use it mainly todifferentiate between these type actions and those which are termed"progressive" etc. and have stiffer butts. Davy from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue May 5 09:17:37 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: FW: bamboo milling machine Just received this email from Tom Morgan regarding his hand mill I sawdemonstrated at the conference at Merritt. It's a understatement to saythat one can go from split and straightened strips to glue up in a heartbeat. If I hadn't seen it myself first had I wouldn't have believed it.With this mill all you need to build a bamboo flyrod is a binder, heattreating device and the mill in one day.Dear Patrick, Thanks for your interest in the Hand Mill. We will get a brochure outto you this week. Sorry for the delay we have been out of town. The Hand Mill is very accurate. You set the taper using a dialindicator. This takes between ten and fifteen minutes and can be setwithin .001. The plane then cuts the strip to the taper you set andtothe angle of the cutters. Traditionally, cutters are set at 60degrees. However, I recommend 61 1/2 degrees. This undercuts thebamboo slightly making the edges come together tightly while stillproviding good glue joints. The strips are all precut until they areone pass from being finished. The cutter is then set for the finaldimension and each strip is then cut one final time. Each strip isthenexactly the same size as all of the others. The adjustable bed is set up with adjusting screws every five incheswhich is the standard for hand planing. You should be able to cut anyregular taper except a swelled butt. The cost of the machine and all of the accessories to cut one angle is$1995 plus shipping. Additional angles for four or five strip rods is$200. You could choose other than a six strip cutter as your firstchoice. If you have any other questions after receiving the brochure pleaseletme know. We went to a Bamboo Conference of rod builders in BritishColumbia last week and showed the Hand Mill. It generated atremendousamount of interest. Thanks again,Tom Morgan from DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com Tue May 5 11:20:48 1998 Subject: RE: bamboo milling machine Patrick,What is Tom's e-mail address? -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W [SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 7:17 AM Subject: FW: bamboo milling machine Just received this email from Tom Morgan regarding his hand millI sawdemonstrated at the conference at Merritt. It's a understatementto saythat one can go from split and straightened strips to glue up ina heartbeat. If I hadn't seen it myself first had I wouldn't havebelieved it.With this mill all you need to build a bamboo flyrod is abinder, heattreating device and the mill in one day.Dear Patrick, Thanks for your interest in the Hand Mill. We will get abrochure outto you this week. Sorry for the delay we have been out oftown. The Hand Mill is very accurate. You set the taper using adialindicator. This takes between ten and fifteen minutes and canbe setwithin .001. The plane then cuts the strip to the taper youset andtothe angle of the cutters. Traditionally, cutters are set at60degrees. However, I recommend 61 1/2 degrees. This undercutsthebamboo slightly making the edges come together tightly whilestillproviding good glue joints. The strips are all precut untilthey areone pass from being finished. The cutter is then set for thefinaldimension and each strip is then cut one final time. Eachstrip isthenexactly the same size as all of the others. The adjustable bed is set up with adjusting screws every fiveincheswhich is the standard for hand planing. You should be able tocut anyregular taper except a swelled butt. The cost of the machine and all of the accessories to cut oneangle is$1995 plus shipping. Additional angles for four or five striprods is$200. You could choose other than a six strip cutter as yourfirstchoice. If you have any other questions after receiving the brochurepleaseletme know. We went to a Bamboo Conference of rod builders inBritishColumbia last week and showed the Hand Mill. It generated atremendousamount of interest. Thanks again,Tom Morgan from Jon.A.Poling-1@tc.umn.edu Tue May 5 11:26:41 1998 11:26:14-0500 11:25:16 -0500 11:25:16-0500 Subject: Rod Tube for Heddon #13 I have a Heddon Model #13 flyrod. I amlooking for a Heddon aluminum tube for it.It needs to be 38"-40" long, for flyrod.The rod is 9"6', 3 pc. Thanks. JP from thramer@presys.com Tue May 5 11:34:44 1998 0000 Subject: Re: Parabolics(training) FLYROD777 wrote: Ok everyone, explain true parabolics for us green horns. I have usedwebstersand the internet to truely understand, but I'm no closer. So train me! Mark HallowellHi Mark,Look back in the archives a couple of months back, I went through arundown on how a para action works.A.J.Thramer from thramer@presys.com Tue May 5 11:38:22 1998 0000 Subject: Re: A.J.'s 3wt Dr. Steven A. Weiss wrote: -----Original Message-----From: A.J.Thramer Date: Monday, May 04, 1998 12:01 PMSubject: A.J.'s 3wt HiAll,My 3wt tapers ARE a specialist taper. As 3wt rods have ALWAYSbeen.... AJ,I admit that I am fairly new to casting bamboo, but am a proficientcaster.I have a late model Orvis 7' 3-wt Battenkill that casts both 2-wt and 4-wtlines better than a 3-wt (all DT). It also casts a triangle taper 3-4betterthan the DT3.Is this mostly my inexperience with bamboo or are there possibly othervariables in rod design working here?Steve WeissHi Dr Steve,Orvis is selling a 4wt rod with 3 wt on the shaft. Their detachment from cane(not building their own blanks anymore) and emphasis ongraphite has contaminated their cane ratings as many othermanufacturers.A.J.Thramer from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Tue May 5 11:46:32 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Tue,5May 1998 12:48:15 -0400 Subject: Fitting Ferrules I am having a dickens of a time final fitting the ferrule from REC on this para. The male doesn't seem to work it's way down any further than the first 3/16". Are you supposed to sand the wear marks or above the wear marks? Arg! Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue May 5 11:47:27 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: bamboo milling machine I found it by looking up "Tom Morgan Rodsmith" on the internet. ----------From: Burrill, Dean[SMTP:DBURRILL@TELEHUB.com] Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 9:20 AM Subject: RE: bamboo milling machine Patrick,What is Tom's e-mail address? -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W [SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 7:17 AM Subject: FW: bamboo milling machine Just received this email from Tom Morgan regarding his hand millI sawdemonstrated at the conference at Merritt. It's a understatementto saythat one can go from split and straightened strips to glue up ina heartbeat. If I hadn't seen it myself first had I wouldn't havebelieved it.With this mill all you need to build a bamboo flyrod is abinder, heattreating device and the mill in one day.Dear Patrick, Thanks for your interest in the Hand Mill. We will get abrochure outto you this week. Sorry for the delay we have been out oftown. The Hand Mill is very accurate. You set the taper using adialindicator. This takes between ten and fifteen minutes and canbe setwithin .001. The plane then cuts the strip to the taper youset andtothe angle of the cutters. Traditionally, cutters are set at60degrees. However, I recommend 61 1/2 degrees. This undercutsthebamboo slightly making the edges come together tightly whilestillproviding good glue joints. The strips are all precut untilthey areone pass from being finished. The cutter is then set for thefinaldimension and each strip is then cut one final time. Eachstrip isthenexactly the same size as all of the others. The adjustable bed is set up with adjusting screws every fiveincheswhich is the standard for hand planing. You should be able tocut anyregular taper except a swelled butt. The cost of the machine and all of the accessories to cut oneangle is$1995 plus shipping. Additional angles for four or five striprods is$200. You could choose other than a six strip cutter as yourfirstchoice. If you have any other questions after receiving the brochurepleaseletme know. We went to a Bamboo Conference of rod builders inBritishColumbia last week and showed the Hand Mill. It generated atremendousamount of interest. Thanks again,Tom Morgan from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Tue May 5 11:51:11 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Tom Morgans web site is {SMTP:rodsmiths@imt.net} from FLYROD777@aol.com Tue May 5 12:05:20 1998 Subject: Re: Parabolics(training) Thanks Mark from jmckinnon@ottawa.iti.ca Tue May 5 12:07:44 1998 5 May 98 13:07:01 -0500 0500 5 May 98 13:06:43 -0500 Subject: Re: bamboo milling machine his address is rodsmiths@imt.net-----Original Message----- Subject: RE: bamboo milling machine Patrick,What is Tom's e-mail address? -----Original Message-----From: Coffey, Patrick W [SMTP:Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com]Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 1998 7:17 AM Subject: FW: bamboo milling machine Just received this email from Tom Morgan regarding his hand millI sawdemonstrated at the conference at Merritt. It's a understatementto saythat one can go from split and straightened strips to glue up ina heartbeat. If I hadn't seen it myself first had I wouldn't havebelieved it.With this mill all you need to build a bamboo flyrod is abinder, heattreating device and the mill in one day.Dear Patrick, Thanks for your interest in the Hand Mill. We will get abrochure outto you this week. Sorry for the delay we have been out oftown. The Hand Mill is very accurate. You set the taper using adialindicator. This takes between ten and fifteen minutes and canbe setwithin .001. The plane then cuts the strip to the taper youset andtothe angle of the cutters. Traditionally, cutters are set at60degrees. However, I recommend 61 1/2 degrees. This undercutsthebamboo slightly making the edges come together tightly whilestillproviding good glue joints. The strips are all precut untilthey areone pass from being finished. The cutter is then set for thefinaldimension and each strip is then cut one final time. Eachstrip isthenexactly the same size as all of the others. The adjustable bed is set up with adjusting screws every fiveincheswhich is the standard for hand planing. You should be able tocut anyregular taper except a swelled butt. The cost of the machine and all of the accessories to cut oneangle is$1995 plus shipping. Additional angles for four or five striprods is$200. You could choose other than a six strip cutter as yourfirstchoice. If you have any other questions after receiving the brochurepleaseletme know. We went to a Bamboo Conference of rod builders inBritishColumbia last week and showed the Hand Mill. It generated atremendousamount of interest. Thanks again,Tom Morgan