from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 1 00:19:11 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun In a message dated 4/30/98 8:05:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,flyrod@artistree.com writes: Don't quote on this but this gun really lookslike it could be a Steinel with Sears name on it. No doubt about it. It is a nice heat gun.Darryl from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 1 01:19:23 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A9C81C200BC; Fri, 01 May 1998 00:20:56 MDT Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides At 07:30 PM 4/30/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>On a similar note, does anyone use Pac Bay guides and are they anyRO>good? I like Perfection, when they are consistent. RO>John Channer John, I use them, what's your question: A) Are they as good looking as the best of the old Perfection guides -nope. (I use the black guides) B) How do they hold up - don't know yet. Most are on rods that haven'tbeen fished. There's on restored rods I'm trying to sell. Note: There are old and new designs to the snake's twist. Make sure youget all of one or the other or the rod will look funny. Old ----> ---/\/--- New ----> ---/|/--- I think that's correct. Don Burns Don;Thanks, what I was wondering is : when you order a batch of guides, dotheyall look the same? The last 3 or 4 times I have bought guides ( economicsforces me to buy parts 1 rod at a time) they look like they were made by 3or more companies. The last batch of black guides I got some were shinyblack, some were flat, some had completely flat feet and others had aslight round were it rises to the curve. I suppose it is possible that thesupplier is substituting for out of stock sizes, but they all hadPerfection stock #s and were all priced the same,besides, the H&H guidesIhave bought had the ends of the feet pre-butchered by some moron. MaybeI'mtoo picky, but I like a little consistency if I can get it. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 1 01:58:18 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A2E91C200C8; Fri, 01 May 1998 00:59:53 MDT Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides At 12:21 AM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:John,I've used Pac Bay guides on everything I've done , for the price theycan't bebeat.All guides are preground and on the plated guides they're ground beforeplating.I know a lot of people stand by Fuji , but then people like Loomis , StCroixect...use Pac Bay on thier production rods. I know that price is a factor, buttheyuse them with no fear of still putting thier name on the rod.BTW Sorry I did'nt mean to swear (L,St C.)Dewayne Davison Dewayne;Thanks for the info. Do they do a good job grinding? I have bought H&H for2 rods and they are pre-ground, too, but the ones I got had the worstimaginable grinding job done on them. They were whacked off at an angle,burned , and no 2 feet were the same length. Most of them weren't evensalvageable, I wound up returning them and using Perfection instead. Ihavere-finshed some old rods that had very nice guides,Heddon and Phillipsoninparticular. I am told these were Perfection guides, if so, I wonder whythey changed the way they are made, the new ones don't seem to look thesame at all. I will have to try Pac Bay next time, I think they are in oneof the catalogues I have. Thanks again John Channer from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 03:29:36 1998 BAA03485 Subject: Re: Heat Gun And if someday Darryl ever does get around to building that "Neunemann"style oven he will find that his gun heats up the oven quite quickly andthe variable temp. feature does a great job at holding a constant temp.setting. And you can quote me on that. : )Chris SalarFly wrote: In a message dated 4/30/98 8:05:56 PM Pacific Daylight Time,flyrod@artistree.com writes: Don't quote on this but this gun really lookslike it could be a Steinel with Sears name on it. No doubt about it. It is a nice heat gun.Darryl from sats@gte.net Fri May 1 05:13:44 1998 Subject: Re: Japan FAA27440 Don't get me wrong, I would be overjoyed to have gone throughthe same experience he did, to see how someone else makesa rod, but there was just too much of the mystical tone in hisposts. Darryl Hayashida Darryl, He loves Japan. He really feels at home there. It was interesting that in one of his posts, he mentioned that his mentorhad acopy of Garrison's book. I'm interested, because he and I had a small misunderstanding about thebamboorods that were made and sold to G.I.'s after the war. And to a lot of us, working with our hands is spiritual. The feeling we getcatching fish on flys we've tied, or rods, we've built is something beyondprideof ownership... Glad you're doing well. I hope to try one of your rods in the future. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from Canerods@aol.com Fri May 1 06:59:50 1998 Subject: Re: Heddon Parts In a message dated 98-04-30 22:57:42 EDT, you write: Bret, I was one of the people. You told me to hang in there until the originalposter replied. I'm loking for reelseats, ferrules and rod sections. (mids and tips mostly) Don Burns Canerods@aol.com or Flyfisher@cmix.com from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 07:21:06 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Hi All, I am going to build the Neuneman heat gun oven. Has anyone built thisthing.His pipe measurments are in metric, but I can't seem to find stove pipethatsmall. All I can get is 6" and 4" dia stove pipe. I don't know if my heat gunwill heat up a pipe that big. Does anyone have successful dimentions orotherpipe diameters that worked for them.Thanks Mark Mills from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 1 07:30:33 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Heddon Parts Don, What do you need in ferrules? As far as mids and tips go I make bantiesoutof them but if I get stuff I don't want I will post. I am going to look atone today so I will let you know on that. How much are you willing to payfortips etc. as i live in Heddon country and run across stuff al the time.Bret from stpete@netten.net Fri May 1 08:06:56 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id IAA12969 for Subject: Re: Heat Gun MMills1189 wrote: Hi All,I am going to build the Neuneman heat gun oven. Has anyone built thisthing.His pipe measurments are in metric, but I can't seem to find stove pipethatsmall. All I can get is 6" and 4" dia stove pipe. I don't know if my heatgunwill heat up a pipe that big. Does anyone have successful dimentions orotherpipe diameters that worked for them.Thanks Mark Mills Mark, I've built the Neuneman style oven using 6" and 4" pipe I picked up atthe local discount hardware store. I used a 6" flanged "starter" ringto mount the oven on a board for a base and I used a 6" cap for the top.All I had to do to assemble was: a) align open, split 4" and 6" pipe with the 4" pipe inside the 6"b) put three sheetmetal screws through both pipe from the insidec) snap together the 4" pipe, then the 6"d) screw the 6" starter flange to a board for a stable basee) cut two holes in a 6" cap one for the heatgun that goes into the6" but not into the 4", and one for the exhaust that comes from the4"f) put a 3" elbow as an exhaust pipe The starter flange is about 5" high so thats where the airflow from the6" gets to flow down and up into the 4". I use a Milwaukee which adjusts via the vents on the side of the gun. It's just one I had. It'll get to 300-350 pretty quick. I think itwould work much better with a variable heatgun. Watch out - the pipegets very hot. I used insulation under the starter flange/base andaround the pipe. Good Luck,Rick from andrew_harsanyi@ibi.com Fri May 1 08:16:42 1998 0400 Subject: Re[2]: Heat Gun Thanks to everyone for their suggestions....seems like there are a lot of good choices...Andy ______________________________ Reply Separator_________________________________Subject: Re: Heat Gun Author: at Tcpgate I bought a Wagner from Sears. I waited until there was a sale (almost every other weekend). It is variable speed, electroniccontrol, and came with a couple access. including the spreadernozzel. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri May 1 08:19:01 1998 Subject: RE:12 foot three piece and more RO>I received a phone call from a guy today that had some bamboo rods togive tRO>me since I was the only one he knew of that would appreciate thethought. IRO>got a 3 piece 12 ft 2 handed Montague Redwing, a 3 pc 8 ft Payne , a 3pc 8RO>orvis, a three piece 8 ft Hardy and a 3 pc 8 ft L.L. Bean. I thoughtsomeonRO>was looking for the taper for a 2 handed salmon rod and I think I mayhaveRO>what they were looking for. If anyone is interested let me know and IwillRO>measure it this weekend and post .RO>Bret Bret, I wish I knew that would give me a Payne rod. Don from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri May 1 08:19:18 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides RO>Thanks, what I was wondering is : when you order a batch of guides, dotheyRO>all look the same? The last 3 or 4 times I have bought guides (economicsRO>forces me to buy parts 1 rod at a time) they look like they were made RO>or more companies. The last batch of black guides I got some wereshinyRO>black, some were flat, some had completely flat feet and others had aRO>slight round were it rises to the curve. I suppose it is possible that theRO>supplier is substituting for out of stock sizes, but they all hadRO>Perfection stock #s and were all priced the same,besides, the H&Hguides IRO>have bought had the ends of the feet pre-butchered by some moron.Maybe I'mRO>too picky, but I like a little consistency if I can get it. RO>John Channer John, I've not had that type of problem with the Pacific Bay guides. They alllook the same. As far as the cosmetics, they look like they are "painted" with a glosspaint compared to the old Perfection tungsten steel's dull look. Pac Bayguides come with pre-ground feet - still need some touch-up work. Theycome with sharp pointy corners - ground by the same morons? I think Perfection has had some major production troubles, I knowAngler's Workshop couldn't supply me with any because their backorders The shiny guides sound like they were Pac Bay guides. containers divided into old style and new style. I guess until the oldones are gone? I happen to like the shape of new style guides myself,but have some of each style for restorations. B.M.'s, price forwalk-in's is $0.35 each. I don't know what the bulk order price would besince I haven't purchased more than ~20 of each size at a time. Don Burnsflyfisher@cmix.com or cnaerods@aol.com PS - I do have some old Perfection #1 & #2 Tungsten steel guides thatI've been hoarding for restorations, can't seem to find any more ofthese guides myself. from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Fri May 1 08:25:31 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 1 May 1998 09:24:37 -0400 Fri, 1 May 1998 09:24:37 -0400 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I just got of the phone with Steinel... I was looking for a source andthey gave me the following two mail order places. (I must say I'mimpressed. I sent them an EMAIL yesterday asking for a vendor and theyrepleyed within two hours. I'm a little odd in that I'm comfortable withparting with my money to someone who actually works for it!!!) Connector Microtools 817-283-4882 Tools on Sale 612-224-4859 Any suggestions on which model to buy??? from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri May 1 08:32:39 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Given that Cane grown here probably will not have all the attribute thatmakethe imported stuff so "right" due to altitude, yearly rainfall, mountainoussoil or whatever. I've often wondered if a little genetic tweaking alongwithour technology in pesticides and fertilization could actually make asuperiordomestic bamboo. If we could only get Archer-Daniels- Midlandinterested...heck, there are pot growers that are supposedly growing stuffthat is much stronger that the stuff from the 60's (according to our ownpresident)! Rob from spalding@harrynormanrealtors.com Fri May 1 08:42:07 1998 Subject: HELP!! In Wayne's book he mentions that most taper listings must be devided bytwo in order that you arrive at the correct dimension of an individualstrip. So, does this mean that in setting up the planing form for finalplaning, where the tip taper references .070 at the 00 location, theactual debth that would be set would be .035 ??!! Sorry if this seemsremedial, but this has been my first major stumbling block, though Isuspect that there will me many more to follow. ThanksSpalding from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 08:53:40 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was also goingtoinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the top andone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along the pipe.Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark from sats@gte.net Fri May 1 08:55:32 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides IAA15014 Thanks for the info. Do they do a good job grinding? I have bought H&H for2 rods and they are pre-ground, too, but the ones I got had the worstimaginable grinding job done on them. They were whacked off at an angle,burned , and no 2 feet were the same length. I'm glad I'm not the only one having these problems! Because I'm not selling rods, I try to salvage what I can from scrap. But Ican't always depend on getting what I need, so I've bough guides from alocalbuilder and from catalogs. Not good, is mild. Most don't come ground down, Size of feet can be verydifferent, etc. etc. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net Most of them weren't evensalvageable, I wound up returning them and using Perfection instead. Ihavere-finshed some old rods that had very nice guides,Heddon and Phillipsoninparticular. I am told these were Perfection guides, if so, I wonder whythey changed the way they are made, the new ones don't seem to look thesame at all. I will have to try Pac Bay next time, I think they are in oneof the catalogues I have. Thanks again John Channer from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 08:59:09 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Rob ,Those are my thoughts exactally.Why can't we grow a superior cane? Mark from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 09:01:06 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! Yes Sir, That is exactally what it means....Divide the rod diameter in twoandset your forms to that spec. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri May 1 09:03:36 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 1May 1998 10:05:19 -0400 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides I am a little concerned with the discussion about guides. In particular, the way the feet are coming "as purchased." I would really have a hard time believing these guides are meant to be put on a rod. I have always assumed, and taught classes (graphite) where I point out the importance of dressing the feet. I have always used H&H guides and found the quality exceptional. I believe the feet ate pressed and then hacked off with a grinding wheel (at very high speed) which would explain the burned ends. I would suggest using a dremel moto tool (or something similar) with a light abrasive disc. I spend about 45 min dressing the guide feet and shortening them for a rod. I don't like doing it, but it is similar to dressing the slits on a ferrule. You don't have to, but it sure looks pretty under clear wraps! Take care,I will put a picture of the bit I use on the web page under tools. Take a look this evening if you have the time. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Fri May 1 09:04:56 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.0.1);Fri, 1May 1998 10:06:41 -0400 Subject: Re: HELP!! Yes...divide the dimension by two and set the forms to the new number. The ones given ar the dimension across flats...a diameter if you will. Your new number will be the radius if we were talking about a circle.Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 09:13:50 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown I almost forgot, If that does'nt work, blame it on "El Nino"..... Mark from hall@Summa4.COM Fri May 1 09:23:50 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0- 49776U700L100S0)with SMTP id AAA17564 for ;Fri, 1 May 1998 10:23:48 - 0400 199814:23:47 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id KAA03872 for ;Fri, 1 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id KAA24574 for Subject: Re: HELP!! Hi All,So from the replies, the below form setting calculation seemscorrect. Given this is so, does this mean the following? 1. Waynes tapers are for a unfinished rod2. The scraping of the enamel (0.002 or so) does not affect thiscalculation Thanks all,Dan Spalding White wrote: In Wayne's book he mentions that most taper listings must be devided bytwo in order that you arrive at the correct dimension of an individualstrip. So, does this mean that in setting up the planing form for finalplaning, where the tip taper references .070 at the 00 location, theactual debth that would be set would be .035 ??!! Sorry if this seemsremedial, but this has been my first major stumbling block, though Isuspect that there will me many more to follow. ThanksSpalding from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 09:47:04 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! Dan,Yes,Wayne's tapers are for an unfinished rod, not a strip.You can leave the enamel side of strip .001 or .002 oversize to allow forscraping. Don't scrape into the power fibers though. Mark from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 1 10:01:07 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Japan with tom Morgan mill and bob millwards mill it takes just a few hours from split and straightened strips to glue up. At merritt bob told me hetakes 4 passes on each side and ends up at +/- .001. I saw ademonstration of tom Morgan and in a few minutes the strip was done andthe glued up section, he had, showed no glue lines. ----------From: Dell[SMTP:flyfisher@nextdim.com] Sent: Thursday, April 30, 1998 6:01 PM Subject: Re: Japan I started planing rods on a 2 ft. v-groove block and after my thirdrod Itimed actual working time at 29 hrs. Now with an adjustable planingformthat is down to 20 hrs. for a completed rod. How much time does ittake witha milling machine? from Canerods@aol.com Fri May 1 10:09:24 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides All, If you try to recover old snake guides - buy yourself a bottle of Duro"Extend" and dip the guides into the stuff. Extend removes any surface rustand leaves behind a gray coating (some will wash off during the cleanupwash),works better than steel wool and manual labor, IMHO. If the guide is very rusty - best to chuck it away or use on a wall-hanger. Don BurnsCanerods@aol.com or Flyfisher@cmix.com from jcole10@juno.com Fri May 1 10:16:54 1998 09:36:02 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Gun JonThanks for info on heat gun. I saw on E-mail that you had a "BindingKit",. Would like more information on it ., before I start trying tobuild one. Thanks in advance John E. Cole708 Hardwicke DriveKnoxville, TN 37923Ph 432/693-2690E-Mail jcole10@juno.com _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from gwr@seanet.com Fri May 1 10:23:07 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id IAA27173 for; Subject: Tungsten snakes available If anyone would like info on obtaining small tungsten snake guides (mostly1/0, Perfections, circa 1950), please contact me off-list. Thanks, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com from jcole10@juno.com Fri May 1 10:39:09 1998 09:50:30 EDT Subject: Re: Heat Gun MarkGlad you ask, I would like to know about the Neuneman oven also. John Cole On Fri, 1 May 1998 08:20:29 EDT MMills1189 writes:Hi All, I am going to build the Neuneman heat gun oven. Has anyone built this thing.His pipe measurments are in metric, but I can't seem to find stove pipe thatsmall. All I can get is 6" and 4" dia stove pipe. I don't know if my heat gunwill heat up a pipe that big. Does anyone have successful dimentions or otherpipe diameters that worked for them.Thanks Mark Mills _____________________________________________________________________You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e- mail.Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.comOr call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654- 5866] from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Fri May 1 10:47:12 1998 Fri, 1 May 1998 23:46:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Home grown On Fri, 1 May 1998, MMills1189 wrote: Rob ,Those are my thoughts exactally.Why can't we grow a superior cane?Mark Perhaps there is a botanist out there who can help. There are plenty of cases of trees that are great timber in one area and useless in others. The obvious ones that come to mind are Spotted Gum and Sydney Gumwhich I believe are the Eucalypts growing around California that everyone hates and the timber is used for fire wood. Here the timber is used for boat building, house framing, basicaly everything Oak is used for in the US. Jarrah is another that grows to an excellent timber here in Western Australia but wont even grow in the Eastern states. Montery Pine form Washington (I believe) is not I'm told not much of a tree in the US but grow to huge suckers out here.There is a bloke in Queensland growing Tonkin, has been for about 5 years and has told me he pours gallons of water onto them and although they've grown very tall wont thicken. Maybe the Chinees talk to them? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from jaw12@health.state.ny.us Fri May 1 11:13:02 1998 (InterLock SMTP Gateway 3.0 for rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu);Fri, 1 May 1998 12:12:38 -0400 Fri, 1 May 1998 12:12:38 -0400 Subject: Re: Home grown And He would know! Nodewrrior@aol.com on 05/01/98 09:32:03 AM Please respond to rodmakers@wugate.wustl.edu Subject: Re: Home grown Given that Cane grown here probably will not have all the attribute thatmake the imported stuff so "right" due to altitude, yearly rainfall,mountainous soil or whatever. I've often wondered if a little genetictweaking along with our technology in pesticides and fertilization couldactually make a superior domestic bamboo. If we could only getArcher-Daniels-Midland interested...heck, there are pot growers that aresupposedly growing stuff that is much stronger that the stuff from the60's(according to our own president)! Rob from Leessinker@aol.com Fri May 1 11:23:27 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides John, The grind job on ther Pac Bay is acceptable for the most part, concideringthemass production involved. Wayne suggest that guides be shortened ( tohelprelieve stress) and all reduced to a standard length , which would involveregrinding in any event.Inspection of each guide and touch up of inferior feet and fit to the blankshould always be done , nothing should be taken for granted it saves timeinthe long run .Dewayne I hope Wayne corrects me if I'm wrong. from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 1 11:34:12 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! In a message dated 5/1/98 7:52:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,MMills1189@aol.comwrites: Don't scrape into the power fibers though. Why not? As long as your strip has good power fiber all the way through, scraping into the power fiber form the enamel side won'taffect the strength, and improve the appearance a lot. Darryl from thramer@presys.com Fri May 1 11:37:20 1998 Subject: Pac Bay Guides If you are given a choice use the second generation Pac Bay. The firstgeneration had some problems with the wire hardness. This is NOT frommyown experience but from numerous reports. The black guides from Pac Bayand Perfection will groove over time. Pac Bay are what you are recievingmost of the time when you order Perfection as the company has had supplyproblems for an extended period of time. I cannot justify the cost ofH&H guides to myself, that same feeling I get from plasic $600 rods. The Pac Bay guide are quite inexpensive if you can scrape together$400 between a few of you. It appears to me that they are the only gamein town. I believe that they also handle Gudebrod products.A.J.Thramer from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 12:29:04 1998 KAA23783 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I agree insulation is a must. Holds temp. much better and for longerperiods oftime. Went so far as to add a 8" pipe around outside of 6" (with 4" inside)andstuffed (actually I wrapped) insulation in the 2" gap. Just make sure youtakethepaper backing off the insulation if there is any. The outside pipe getswarminstead of hot and the oven looks neater which makes my wife happierwhenshowingoff the shop to visitors. I also modified to use in a horizontal position as opposed to a vertical. Ifyouthink about it for a minute all you have to do is add some wire mesh (tosupportthe cane strips) the length of the inside of the 4" pipe and put a removablecapon the end. I then store the oven in an upright position when not in use.Best Regards,Chris Mark, I've built the Neuneman style oven using 6" and 4" pipe I picked up atthe local discount hardware store. I used a 6" flanged "starter" ringto mount the oven on a board for a base and I used a 6" cap for the top.All I had to do to assemble was: a) align open, split 4" and 6" pipe with the 4" pipe inside the 6"b) put three sheetmetal screws through both pipe from the insidec) snap together the 4" pipe, then the 6"d) screw the 6" starter flange to a board for a stable basee) cut two holes in a 6" cap one for the heatgun that goes into the6" but not into the 4", and one for the exhaust that comes from the4"f) put a 3" elbow as an exhaust pipe The starter flange is about 5" high so thats where the airflow from the6" gets to flow down and up into the 4". I use a Milwaukee which adjusts via the vents on the side of the gun.It's just one I had. It'll get to 300-350 pretty quick. I think itwould work much better with a variable heatgun. Watch out - the pipegets very hot. I used insulation under the starter flange/base andaround the pipe. Good Luck,Rick from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri May 1 12:35:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A69F97401D6; Fri, 01 May 1998 10:30:07 PST Subject: Re: HELP!! The so called power fibers are more dense on the outer area of the strip soany removal of fibers will weaken the strip. look at the end of a culm youcan see that as the structure of the fibers get more dense as theyprogress from interior to exterior.-----Original Message----- Subject: Re: HELP!! In a message dated 5/1/98 7:52:22 AM Pacific Daylight Time,MMills1189@aol.comwrites: Don't scrape into the power fibers though. Why not? As long as your strip has good power fiber all the waythrough, scraping into the power fiber form the enamel side won'taffect the strength, and improve the appearance a lot. Darryl from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 12:39:20 1998 KAA24724 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I forgot to mention one other thing. If you have problems securing the 6" &4"tubetogether with screws or bolts try using rivets. I remember picking up acheaprivettool for less than $10 at the hardware store and have found it invaluable. C.J. Wohlford wrote: I agree insulation is a must. Holds temp. much better and for longerperiodsoftime. Went so far as to add a 8" pipe around outside of 6" (with 4" inside)andstuffed (actually I wrapped) insulation in the 2" gap. Just make sure youtakethepaper backing off the insulation if there is any. The outside pipe getswarminstead of hot and the oven looks neater which makes my wife happierwhenshowingoff the shop to visitors. I also modified to use in a horizontal position as opposed to a vertical. Ifyouthink about it for a minute all you have to do is add some wire mesh (tosupportthe cane strips) the length of the inside of the 4" pipe and put aremovablecapon the end. I then store the oven in an upright position when not in use.Best Regards,Chris Mark, I've built the Neuneman style oven using 6" and 4" pipe I picked up atthe local discount hardware store. I used a 6" flanged "starter" ringto mount the oven on a board for a base and I used a 6" cap for the top.All I had to do to assemble was: a) align open, split 4" and 6" pipe with the 4" pipe inside the 6"b) put three sheetmetal screws through both pipe from the insidec) snap together the 4" pipe, then the 6"d) screw the 6" starter flange to a board for a stable basee) cut two holes in a 6" cap one for the heatgun that goes into the6" but not into the 4", and one for the exhaust that comes from the4"f) put a 3" elbow as an exhaust pipe The starter flange is about 5" high so thats where the airflow from the6" gets to flow down and up into the 4". I use a Milwaukee which adjusts via the vents on the side of the gun.It's just one I had. It'll get to 300-350 pretty quick. I think itwould work much better with a variable heatgun. Watch out - the pipegets very hot. I used insulation under the starter flange/base andaround the pipe. Good Luck,Rick from Patrick.Coffey@PSS.Boeing.com Fri May 1 12:48:08 1998 (5.0.1458.49) Subject: RE: Heat Gun I made mine out of rectangular ducting, 8" for the outside and 6" forthe inside and used 1' insulation duct board between the two forinsulation and small round pipe for the cane and pop riveted the wholething together. I made the 6" one inch shorter than the 8" put a cap onthe 6"and 8" and put 1"suct between them. It stays relatively cool andholds temperature quite nicely. ----------From: C.J. Wohlford[SMTP:flyrod@artistree.com] Sent: Friday, May 01, 1998 11:32 AM Subject: Re: Heat Gun I agree insulation is a must. Holds temp. much better and for longerperiods oftime. Went so far as to add a 8" pipe around outside of 6" (with 4"inside) andstuffed (actually I wrapped) insulation in the 2" gap. Just make sureyou take thepaper backing off the insulation if there is any. The outside pipegets warminstead of hot and the oven looks neater which makes my wife happierwhen showingoff the shop to visitors. I also modified to use in a horizontal position as opposed to avertical. If youthink about it for a minute all you have to do is add some wire mesh(to supportthe cane strips) the length of the inside of the 4" pipe and put aremovable capon the end. I then store the oven in an upright position when not inuse.Best Regards,Chris Mark, I've built the Neuneman style oven using 6" and 4" pipe I picked upatthe local discount hardware store. I used a 6" flanged "starter"ringto mount the oven on a board for a base and I used a 6" cap for thetop.All I had to do to assemble was: a) align open, split 4" and 6" pipe with the 4" pipe inside the 6"b) put three sheetmetal screws through both pipe from the insidec) snap together the 4" pipe, then the 6"d) screw the 6" starter flange to a board for a stable basee) cut two holes in a 6" cap one for the heatgun that goes into the6" but not into the 4", and one for the exhaust that comes fromthe4"f) put a 3" elbow as an exhaust pipe The starter flange is about 5" high so thats where the airflow fromthe6" gets to flow down and up into the 4". I use a Milwaukee which adjusts via the vents on the side of thegun.It's just one I had. It'll get to 300-350 pretty quick. I think itwould work much better with a variable heatgun. Watch out - thepipegets very hot. I used insulation under the starter flange/base andaround the pipe. Good Luck,Rick from fbcwin@fsbnet.com Fri May 1 12:52:08 1998 (Post.Office MTA v3.1.2 release (PO205-101c) Subject: Re: HELP!! Dan,If you're going to leave a trace of enamel, just set your forms approx.001oversize. For example, at the tip setting you mentioned, .035, if you leaveonalittle enamel, try setting your form at .036.And if you think that's tiny, try a 2-weight at .024" at the tip!Harry Boyd Dan Hall wrote: Hi All,So from the replies, the below form setting calculation seemscorrect.Given this is so, does this mean the following? 1. Waynes tapers are for a unfinished rod2. The scraping of the enamel (0.002 or so) does not affect thiscalculation Thanks all,Dan Spalding White wrote: In Wayne's book he mentions that most taper listings must be devidedbytwo in order that you arrive at the correct dimension of an individualstrip. So, does this mean that in setting up the planing form for finalplaning, where the tip taper references .070 at the 00 location, theactual debth that would be set would be .035 ??!! Sorry if this seemsremedial, but this has been my first major stumbling block, though Isuspect that there will me many more to follow. ThanksSpalding from royera@sprynet.com Fri May 1 13:08:07 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Personally, I think everyone should grow bamboo. Its aesthetics arematchedonly by a peacefulness the plant exudes. An easiness flows through yourbody while walking through an established grove of healthy bamboo, theleaves whisper ancient secrets to one another and if you rest in theirmidst, you can hear what they are saying... Yeah yeah, enough of that hippy shit, what can we build from it? We cangrow hundreds of kinds of bamboo here in the states including tonkin.However, like any tropical bamboo, you will not grow bamboo to itsmaximumpotential unless you are growing it where it is happy. Arundinariaamabilisis happy in the small geographic area in southern China. It grows in thehills at an altitude of 200-500 metres (650' -1650') in an area thatreceives 120cm (47") of rain May through August and 15cm (6") of rainOctober through January. The temperatures range from 15-30 C. (65-85F.)throughout the year with low temperature rarely going below 5 C. (41 F.) I also heard about the wind and its effects on the quality of the bamboo. Iwas told that if we were to dry bamboo in October, the combination oflotsof direct sun and strong winds would result in green coloured bamboo. Iwasalso told that a visible ring around the moon meant that it would rain thenext day. My wife from Tennessee tells me that if cows are laying downthefish are biting... There is as much bullshit as mysticism floating aroundin China. I am not discounting the wind and its potential effects on thegrowth pattern of bamboo, I happen to think there are other reasons. Bamboo is a plant. Like all plants, conditions exist which will result inhealthy and unhealthy growth. As a farm crop, much of the tonkin beinggrown in China is being grown in an unhealthy manner which gives us poorquality material. Too much of the bamboo is being grown as a monocropand,like many wild things, it needs to be grown in accordance to nature.Meaning, on a hillside, you should not see bamboo growing alone but with ahealthy undergrowth of smaller plants. Bamboo grown in a symbioticrelationship is most healthy. Some farmers grow better bamboo. While inChina last summer, I noticed the same farmers mark on several ofthelargest, best looking pieces of cane. When visiting Winston's shop lastOctober, I was looking at a large collection of older cane with GlennBrackett. I saw the butt end of a very nice, large piece of cane and pulledit out of the pile. There again, was that same farmers slash mark! My point is, that two things (at least) are needed to grow the kind oftonkin cane that rodbuilders desire; the right climate and proper farmingtechniques. If you find the first, you can learn the second. I think Gib Cooper at Tradewinds Nursery [(541) 247-0835] may be thebestsource for live plants. He should also be of assistance in determining howbest to grow this bamboo and what you may expect from it. It is true thatit would take several years before the plants reach maximum size but youcanappreciate them immediately. And remember, once a good grove of bambooisestablished, poles are harvestable every three to four years. Genetic tweaking? Ah yes, that's how we live it in these advanced firstworld countries. To answer the question; yes, you probably could get agenetically tweaked new species that would be all that you need. The mantodo it is Dr. John Woods at West Wind Technologies in TN. They have beenpropagating and tweaking bamboos for years. There are in a bit of adifferent league however. Build a genetically superior bamboo for flyrodconstruction? I imagine they would be happy to, for a few hundredthousanddollars. West Wind Technologies is part of a movement promoting bambooasthe fibre of the future. This is the market promoting bamboo as buildingmaterials to "first world" countries. Products such as flooring, veneers,structural beams, paneling, OSB... Fairly big-time stuff. So, a bamboothat would be perfect for flyrod builders would also appeal to othermarketscapable of throwing around big money, but those people are already outtherethrowing money into finding a bamboo which already exists. A bamboowithsuper dense, strong fibres would be appreciated by many but I can notimagine a market that needs a bamboo to be as pretty as flyrod builderswould like it. I think you guys down South should give it a go. Talk to Gib and get someplants in the ground. Now is the time of year to do it. I personally don'tbelieve you will achieve what you are looking for in terms of a "super"tonkin cane, but you can certainly grow some beautiful stuff. And, youmayfind a few poles in ten years that will be perfect for a cane rod. It is true that I have a vested interest in everyone buying the tonkin grownin Southern China but as I understand it, tonkin is the best cane forrodbuilding and the Guandong province in China is where that bamboogrowsbest. I have access to dozens of species of bamboo from around the worldand I have yet to find a bamboo with the fibre density matching that oftonkin cane. I applaud any and all attempts to find better bamboo or growtonkin elsewhere. Cordially, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri May 1 13:16:18 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Mark, Do yourself a favor, forget the candy thermometers. Go to your localheating & air-conditioning supplier and get some high temp. thermometers.If you go digital they are easier to read and more accurate.Gary H. At 09:52 AM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was alsogoing toinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the topandone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along the pipe.Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 13:37:27 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Andy,Very nice,very nice indeed. I really enjoyed that piece.Now how about breaking up some of those bales so us little guy's can getsomeof your good S**T. Mark Mills from anglport@con2.com Fri May 1 14:33:19 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun At 11:21 PM 4/30/98 EDT, you wrote:I use a Milwaukee and it came with its own stand. Bret,What color is that Milwaukee? I was warned off the black ones as they'renotmade by Milwaukee Tools but some other similarly-named company. Ifyou'vegot a black one and it works, they seem to be a helluva lot cheaper thanthered ones! I'd like to save the bucks and try it out.Art from royera@sprynet.com Fri May 1 14:47:54 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Thank you. I sell 3-9 poles cut in half shipped via UPS. After that I sell fullbundles of 10 pcs. Please write to me at the below address for moredetails. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: Home grown Andy,Very nice,very nice indeed. I really enjoyed that piece.Now how about breaking up some of those bales so us little guy's can getsomeof your good S**T. Mark Mills from destinycon@mindspring.com Fri May 1 14:48:12 1998 Subject: In Search Of... To; A.J,I just compleated your 3pc. 7'9" for a 3wt. and when the finish curesI'moff to the river....Thanks!!! To; Everyone, butalas I don't have the taper. Can anyone help me out? As a matter of factI would appreciate any of Pinky's tapers. Gary H. from dhaftel@att.com Fri May 1 14:48:30 1998 8.6/EMS-1.2sol2) Server InternetMail Connector Version 4.0.995.52) 15:09:08-0400 Subject: RE: Home grown 4.0.995.52 I'd take a few pieces!! Dennis Haftel -----Original Message-----From: MMills1189 [SMTP:MMills1189@aol.com]Sent: Friday, May 01, 1998 2:37 PM Subject: Re: Home grown Andy,Very nice,very nice indeed. I really enjoyed that piece.Now how about breaking up some of those bales so us little guy's can getsomeof your good S**T. Mark Mills from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 14:59:31 1998 MAA29861 Subject: Re: Home grown Last year I read an article in the paper (Sunday Real Estate section) aboutacouple that bought a house in the SF Bay area that had a stand of bamboogrowing in the back yard. To make a long story short they were having ahell ofa time getting rid of it. They cut it down, it came back, they poisoned it, itcame back, they dug up the roots, it came back, they even brought in abulldozer and dug up the whole backyard and it still came back. I guess theroot systems are quite extensive. Sometimes you just can't kill abeautifulthing. Personally, I would love a stand of Bamboo in my backyard. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from flyrod@artistree.com Fri May 1 15:03:06 1998 NAA00233 Subject: Re: Heat Gun The Milwaukee I saw a maker using was Red.Chris Art Port wrote: At 11:21 PM 4/30/98 EDT, you wrote:I use a Milwaukee and it came with its own stand. Bret,What color is that Milwaukee? I was warned off the black ones as they'renotmade by Milwaukee Tools but some other similarly-named company. Ifyou'vegot a black one and it works, they seem to be a helluva lot cheaper thanthered ones! I'd like to save the bucks and try it out.Art from gwr@seanet.com Fri May 1 15:07:23 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id NAA16937 for; Subject: Re: In Search Of... Gary, You need to buy Jack Howell's book "The Lovely Reed." He's got asection of about 50 tapers, most miked out by Daryll Whitehead, and theyinclude a 7'6" Gillum among a total of 10 Gillum tapers. I'd just give youthe taper, but I don't know where I'd stand with Jack & his publisher if Idid. Anyway, the book is worth every penny of it cost, probably more. CallBarry Serviente at The Angler's Art to order a copy. Phone: (800) 848-1020. Read & enjoy, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com -----Original Message----- Subject: In Search Of... To; A.J,I just compleated your 3pc. 7'9" for a 3wt. and when the finish cures I'moff to the river....Thanks!!! To; Everyone, alas I don't have the taper. Can anyone help me out? As a matter of factI would appreciate any of Pinky's tapers. Gary H. from royera@sprynet.com Fri May 1 15:26:15 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown (Don't be afraid!) Bamboo's got a bad reputation. It is very easy to control when it isplanted by using a rhizome barrier or other, natural, barrier. Bamboo doesmuch of its growing beneath the ground. It has a root ball or rhizomestructure about 16" beneath the soil. It is from these rhizomes thatbambooshoots. It is hard to maintain twenty years after it has been plantedbecause the underground root system is now extensive and invisible. Anyoneinterested in growing bamboo should do a little research which is easy todoon the internet or at a library. Anyone interested in growing a lot ofbamboo should contact Daphne Lewis who wrote a book called "Bamboo ontheFarm." Ms. Lewis is a wonderful resource and has worked to promotebambooas a cash crop here in the States. Please write to me if you want hernumber. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx----- Original Message----- Subject: Re: Home grown Last year I read an article in the paper (Sunday Real Estate section) aboutacouple that bought a house in the SF Bay area that had a stand of bamboogrowing in the back yard. To make a long story short they were having ahell ofa time getting rid of it. They cut it down, it came back, they poisoned it,itcame back, they dug up the roots, it came back, they even brought in abulldozer and dug up the whole backyard and it still came back. I guesstheroot systems are quite extensive. Sometimes you just can't kill abeautifulthing. Personally, I would love a stand of Bamboo in my backyard. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 1 15:29:23 1998 Subject: Scraping Power Fiber (Was: HELP!!) In a message dated 5/1/98 10:39:51 AM Pacific Daylight Time,flyfisher@nextdim.com writes: The so called power fibers are more dense on the outer area of the stripsoany removal of fibers will weaken the strip. look at the end of a culmyoucan see that as the structure of the fibers get more dense as theyprogress from interior to exterior. This is true, but notice what I said:As long as your strip has good power fiber all the waythrough, scraping into the power fiber form the enamel side won'taffect the strength, and improve the appearance a lot. First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no more than.005 from the outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida from hall@Summa4.COM Fri May 1 15:55:18 1998 custsrv1.vitts.com(Post.Office MTA v3.1 release PO203a ID# 0- 49776U700L100S0)with SMTP id AAA17712 for ;Fri, 1 May 1998 16:55:12 - 0400 199820:55:12 UT (8.8.5/8.7.1) with ESMTP id QAA06075 for ;Fri, 1 summa4.summa4.com (8.8.5/8.7.1) with SMTP id QAA07843 for Subject: Re: HELP!! Harry et all,Thanks for your clarification. To summerize:If one wants most/all of the enamel off, one should increase the depth(oversize) by the amount they want to take off (.001 oversize forleaving some enamel on, .005 oversize for scraping all enamel off). Oncedone planing (flats only) the 6 strips whas this extra depth. One isleft with the enamel to scrape. The amount of enamel one has to scrape(per strip), to get back to the original finished rod taper, is theamount of the oversize.Some different camps exist on how much can/can't be scraped.Appearsthe consensis is, given that you have (100%)power fibers throughout thestrip (a requirement really), taking up to .005/strip is not a big loss,leaving one with a nicer finish.So if the intent is to leave some enamal, oversize by .001, if want allenamel off, plus a hair, oversize by .005. Sorry for the reiteration, but if the above is not correct, pleasecorrect me. Thanks for your patience,Dan Harry Boyd wrote: Dan,If you're going to leave a trace of enamel, just set your forms approx.001oversize. For example, at the tip setting you mentioned, .035, if youleaveon alittle enamel, try setting your form at .036.And if you think that's tiny, try a 2-weight at .024" at the tip!Harry Boyd Dan Hall wrote: Hi All,So from the replies, the below form setting calculation seemscorrect.Given this is so, does this mean the following? 1. Waynes tapers are for a unfinished rod2. The scraping of the enamel (0.002 or so) does not affect thiscalculation Thanks all,Dan Spalding White wrote: In Wayne's book he mentions that most taper listings must be devidedbytwo in order that you arrive at the correct dimension of an individualstrip. So, does this mean that in setting up the planing form for finalplaning, where the tip taper references .070 at the 00 location, theactual debth that would be set would be .035 ??!! Sorry if this seemsremedial, but this has been my first major stumbling block, though Isuspect that there will me many more to follow. ThanksSpalding from rclarke@eou.edu Fri May 1 16:17:50 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown (Don't be afraid!) I appreciate your attitude Andy! It would be fun to grow my own, but inthe mean time, I'll continue to buy your's ( well as soon as I use up theculms filling up my living room). Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: Andy Royer Subject: Re: Home grown (Don't be afraid!)Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 1:26 PM Bamboo's got a bad reputation. It is very easy to control when it isplanted by using a rhizome barrier or other, natural, barrier. Bamboodoesmuch of its growing beneath the ground. It has a root ball or rhizomestructure about 16" beneath the soil. It is from these rhizomes thatbambooshoots. It is hard to maintain twenty years after it has been plantedbecause the underground root system is now extensive and invisible. Anyoneinterested in growing bamboo should do a little research which is easytodoon the internet or at a library. Anyone interested in growing a lot ofbamboo should contact Daphne Lewis who wrote a book called "Bamboo ontheFarm." Ms. Lewis is a wonderful resource and has worked to promotebambooas a cash crop here in the States. Please write to me if you want hernumber. Regards, Andy Royerroyera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx----- Original Message-----From: C.J. Wohlford Date: Friday, May 01, 1998 1:10 PMSubject: Re: Home grown Last year I read an article in the paper (Sunday Real Estate section)aboutacouple that bought a house in the SF Bay area that had a stand of bamboogrowing in the back yard. To make a long story short they were having ahell ofa time getting rid of it. They cut it down, it came back, they poisonedit,itcame back, they dug up the roots, it came back, they even brought in abulldozer and dug up the whole backyard and it still came back. I guesstheroot systems are quite extensive. Sometimes you just can't kill abeautifulthing. Personally, I would love a stand of Bamboo in my backyard. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from MMills1189@aol.com Fri May 1 17:27:49 1998 Subject: Re: Home grown Andy, Glad to hear you are breaking bails,the last time I mailed you, you wereselling only full bails. Can you send the list your current prices for smallquantities. Your home grown input was great. Thanks Mark Mills, WestPalmBeach, Fl. from sats@gte.net Fri May 1 17:27:50 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides RAA24856 All, If you try to recover old snake guides - buy yourself a bottle of Duro"Extend" and dip the guides into the stuff. Extend removes any surfacerustand leaves behind a gray coating (some will wash off during the cleanupwash),works better than steel wool and manual labor, IMHO. If the guide is very rusty - best to chuck it away or use on a wall-hanger. Thanks for the advice. I've got a pot full of fairly large snakes that I got from a fella in Tampa. However they're all silver, not black. My localsource This helps a lot. Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from sats@gte.net Fri May 1 17:27:52 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! RAA24872 Some different camps exist on how much can/can't be scraped.Appearsthe consensis is, given that you have (100%)power fibers throughout thestrip (a requirement really), taking up to .005/strip is not a big loss,leaving one with a nicer finish. Be very careful about removing power fibers. A little goes a long way. I'vebeen experimenting along these line's (don't have anything to report yet,except that it's easy to mess up a rod doing this.) Terry "Sunfish" KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from mcdowellc@lanecc.edu Fri May 1 17:59:09 1998 (1.37.109.24/16.2) id AA061033391; Fri, 1 May 1998 15:56:31 -0700 Subject: Weakening a rod I plan to experiment a little with weakening a mid and tip section of a 9' rod by reducing the taper by very slight increments. I'll use a finish sandpaper and take a stroke or two from each flat and then mic. it. The goal being to eventually arrive at a taper that might more closelyresemble the taper of a 6' rod built the way rods are best built. I suppose a way to start is measure the three diameter's and even them out to the smallest measurement at that point if there is variation. Then determine the areas that need reduced and very carefully proceed from there. Having made a few mid/tip banty rods it seems to be largely a potluck on the final action. Any of these rods will cast line of course, but some are definitely better at it than others. I hope to come up with a more specific method to arrive at a useable mid/tip banty. Not necessarily a pre- determined line wt. but more an action and taper that iscomplimentary of any line at all. I can hear the comments already. Why would you want to do this? Whocares? etc., but there seem to be plenty of people at least starting out with mid/tip rods prior to moving on to raw materials and never looking back. In this kind of project, how much sanding is too much might be mostlybased on who made the blank in the first place and how much sanding they did to remove the glue etc. when the blank was initially completed. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri May 1 18:09:12 1998 Subject: RE:Weakening a rod RO>In this kind of project, how much sanding is too much might be mostlybasedRO>on who made the blank in the first place and how much sanding they didtoRO>remove the glue etc. when the blank was initially completed. RO>Chris McDowell Chris, John Cooper has experimented with putting old noodles into desicant and"drying" old rods out. That might be something to also test on yourproject rod. Don Burns from cbogart@shentel.net Fri May 1 18:14:08 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun ArtWe have been over this previously - All rpt All Milwaukee heatguns (even the red ones) are now made by Wagner - they bought outMilwaukee heat gun business about 3-4 years ago. Chris At 11:21 PM 4/30/98 EDT, you wrote:I use a Milwaukee and it came with its own stand. Bret,What color is that Milwaukee? I was warned off the black ones as they'renotmade by Milwaukee Tools but some other similarly-named company. Ifyou'vegot a black one and it works, they seem to be a helluva lot cheaper thanthered ones! I'd like to save the bucks and try it out.Art Regards Chris from stpete@netten.net Fri May 1 18:58:52 1998 cedar.netten.net (8.8.8/8.6.12) with SMTP id TAA20851 for Subject: Re: Heat Gun MMills1189 wrote: Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was alsogoing toinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the topandone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along the pipe.Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark Mark, I drilled a hole and put in a thermometer about 2/3 of the way up theoven into the 4" section. Works for me. Two or three thermometerswould probably be more accurate but the air is moving up so I figure itspretty consistent in the 4" tube. Rick from rclarke@eou.edu Fri May 1 19:18:34 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun Wayne's oven works pretty slick as well. Take a look at http://www.eou.edu/fao/bamboo.htm It was not as difficult as I had expected. Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu ----------From: stpete Subject: Re: Heat GunDate: Saturday, May 02, 1998 4:57 AM MMills1189 wrote: Thanks Rick,Thats about what I was going to do. Glad to hear it works.I was alsogoing toinstall a couple of candy thermometers into the 4" pipe. One at the topandone near the bottom just so that I can look at the temps along thepipe. Whatdid you do for accurate temps? Mark Mark, I drilled a hole and put in a thermometer about 2/3 of the way up theoven into the 4" section. Works for me. Two or three thermometerswould probably be more accurate but the air is moving up so I figure itspretty consistent in the 4" tube. Rick from SalarFly@aol.com Fri May 1 19:27:46 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! In a message dated 5/1/98 3:29:13 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sats@gte.netwrites: Some different camps exist on how much can/can't be scraped.Appearsthe consensis is, given that you have (100%)power fibers throughoutthestrip (a requirement really), taking up to .005/strip is not a big loss,leaving one with a nicer finish. Be very careful about removing power fibers. A little goes a long way.I'vebeen experimenting along these line's (don't have anything to report yet,except that it's easy to mess up a rod doing this.) Are we talking about making a new rod, or altering an alreadyexisting rod? With a new rod, we can remove the outer enamel and go into the power fibers and still preserve the planned diameter of the blank. With an already existing rod, the only thingyou can do is reduce the diameter. In that case, yes you are goingto alter the action or line wt the rod casts. Lets figure out what weare doing here before we go any further. Darryl Hayashida from rclarke@eou.edu Fri May 1 19:30:13 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting Here we go. Two Piece Salmon Fly Rod, 15 ft length, weight 2 1/2 pounds, at 6 inchintervals: Tip: .215, .227, .273, .294, .310, .359, .387, .415, .440, .487, .520,.540, .564, .564 Butt: .564, .600, .626, .690, .710, .736, .750, .802, .812, .830, .967,.967, .967 ----------From: Roger Long Subject: Re: Tournament CastingDate: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 8:18 AM Robert, I would be very interested in any two-handed tapers that you have. Ithink bamboo would be wonderful for spey and other two-handed castingtechniques. Thanks,Roger Long Robert Clarke wrote: from Tournament Fly and Baitcasting by Earl Osten, 1946 Measurements for a "highly recommended tournament trout fly rod,9 ftweightis 8 oz, 2 piece,in 6 inch intervals": ---------- tip.120.180.220.240.262.268.270.280.304.329 butt.329.363.400.402.425.457.504.512.512 Someone might want to feed this into hexrod to see what the stresscurveis. It is in 6 inch intervals, there may be a way to convert it to 5inchintervals. There are also other tapers for two handed rods. Anytakers? comments? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from dpeaston@wzrd.com Fri May 1 19:32:27 1998 mail.wzrd.com (8.8.8/8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA16698; Fri, 1 May 199820:07:55 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod At 03:47 PM 5/1/98 PDT, CHRISTOPHER C MCDOWELL wrote:I plan to experiment a little with weakening a mid and tip section of a 9' rod by reducing the taper by very slight increments. I'll use a finish sandpaper and take a stroke or two from each flat and then mic. it. The goal being to eventually arrive at a taper that might more closelyresemble the taper of a 6' rod built the way rods are best built. I suppose a way to start is measure the three diameter's and even them out to thesmallest measurement at that point if there is variation. Then determine the areas that need reduced and very carefully proceed from there. Having made a few mid/tip banty rods it seems to be largely a potluck on the final action. Any of these rods will cast line of course, but some are definitely better at it than others. I hope to come up with a more specific method to arrive at a useable mid/tip banty. Not necessarily a pre- determined line wt. but more an action and taper that iscomplimentary of any line at all. I can hear the comments already. Why would you want to do this? Whocares? etc., but there seem to be plenty of people at least starting out with mid/tip rods prior to moving on to raw materials and never looking back. In this kind of project, how much sanding is too much might be mostlybased on who made the blank in the first place and how much sanding they didto remove the glue etc. when the blank was initially completed. Chris McDowellmcdowellc@lanecc.edu Chris, I have done this sort of "adjustment." I have one of those Japanesepost-war GI rods. It never threw aany line from #6-#4 with any kind of tight loop. I read one of Darryl'sposts about making a rod throw a tight loop by reducing the diameter oftheregion about 5 inches from the tip. I measured up the taper of the "cheaprod" and plotted it with hexrod. Indeed, the stress curve showed excessivestiffness in the area 5-6" behind the tip. I used sandpaper to reduce thethickness in that area enough to increase the stress in that region.Testing the rod showed a significant improvement of its loop formingability, but it still is a mediocre to poor rod due to the quality of thecane. The workmanship on the rod is good but the materials are poorquality. I suggest that you use the stress plot of the rodas a guide, but remember that when you remove cane from the outside youareprobably removing power fibers and should remove less than stress analysis suggests. Good luck. Doug EastonTonawanda, NY from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 1 20:37:19 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japan Tony,I agree-there's room for all of us in here and the english teacherobviously enjoys being "the little grasshopper" .I'd have given my right armto have been in his shoes some years ago (well, maybe not the whole arm).Hank. from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri May 1 20:45:01 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id A93A17026E; Fri, 01 May 1998 18:39:06 PST Subject: Re: Tournament Casting The following are measurements taken from varnished two-handedSteelhead rodmade With fluted hollow butt in 1958 by King White of B.C. Canada that Ihave built 9wt. DT. 10 1/2oz.2" .120 5".135 10".156 15".177 20".195 25".217 30".239 35".256 40".27545".288 50".303 55".317 60".327 65".344 70"- ferrule 75".360 80".37285".38690".392 95".398 100".408 105".421 110".446 115".455 120".468End of male ferrule-70 3/16" end of female ferrule 69"cork-120 to 140" with 6" butt grip. More of overhead rod but spey castreasonably well. -----Original Message----- Subject: Re: Tournament Casting Here we go. Two Piece Salmon Fly Rod, 15 ft length, weight 2 1/2 pounds, at 6 inchintervals: Tip: .215, .227, .273, .294, .310, .359, .387, .415, .440, .487, .520,.540, .564, .564 Butt: .564, .600, .626, .690, .710, .736, .750, .802, .812, .830, .967,.967, .967 ----------From: Roger Long Subject: Re: Tournament CastingDate: Wednesday, April 29, 1998 8:18 AM Robert, I would be very interested in any two-handed tapers that you have. Ithinkbamboo would be wonderful for spey and other two-handed castingtechniques. Thanks,Roger Long Robert Clarke wrote: from Tournament Fly and Baitcasting by Earl Osten, 1946 Measurements for a "highly recommended tournament trout fly rod,9 ftweightis 8 oz, 2 piece,in 6 inch intervals": ---------- tip.120.180.220.240.262.268.270.280.304.329 butt.329.363.400.402.425.457.504.512.512 Someone might want to feed this into hexrod to see what the stresscurveis. It is in 6 inch intervals, there may be a way to convert it to 5inchintervals. There are also other tapers for two handed rods. Anytakers? comments? Robert Clarkerclarke@eou.edu from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 1 20:55:59 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Home grown Mark, A bundle only costs 250.00 from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 1 20:56:31 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Heat Gun Art, I have both, have had the black one for about 15 years and it stillworks.Bret from Grhghlndr@aol.com Fri May 1 20:57:49 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Home grown List,Andy's cane is really good stuff too.Bret from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 1 21:14:47 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1F049F00B6; Fri, 01 May 1998 20:16:16 MDT Subject: Pacific Bay Don;Glad to hear Pac Bay's guides are consistent, to get a full rods worth ofPerfections I've had to resort to stealing from some of my old rods to getthe job done. I will defineately try them on my next rod, unless I can sellthe customer on bronze hardware, I like Dave's guides alot, but the last 3rods I have made they either wanted chrome or black. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Fri May 1 21:14:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A1F349F00B6; Fri, 01 May 1998 20:16:19 MDT Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides At 10:01 AM 5/1/98 +0000, you wrote:I am a little concerned with the discussion about guides. In particular, the way the feet are coming "as purchased." I would really have a hard time believing these guides are meant to be put on a rod. I have always assumed, and taught classes (graphite) where I point out the importance of dressing the feet. I have always used H&H guides and found the quality exceptional. I believe the feet ate pressed and then hacked off with a grinding wheel (at very high speed) which would explain the burned ends. I would suggest using a dremel moto tool (or something similar) with a light abrasive disc. I spend about 45 min dressing the guide feet and shortening them for a rod. I don't like doing it, but it is similar to dressing the slits on a ferrule. You don't have to, but it sure looks pretty under clear wraps! Take care,I will put a picture of the bit I use on the web page under tools. Take a look this evening if you have the time. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ Jon;I don't mind grinding feet at all, in fact I would rather do it myself thanhave some imbecile at the factory make a mess out of the job. What I amrefering to is guide feet that are pre-ground to the point where there isnothing left to touch up. I have had this problem on at least 25% of theH&H guides I bought, so I won't buy them any more. I will try Pac Bay forblack and chrome guides, but will use Dave LeClair's bronze guideswheneverpossible, they are the best I have used. John Channer from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri May 1 21:21:42 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... Gary, I have a good 8' 6wt 2pc taper of Pinky's. I built it as a big trout rod butit throws the IL sized bass hairbugs admirably. The stress curve issimlisarto that of the Payne parabolic in the archives(!).I plan to do A.J.'s 7'9" next for a client, please tell me how yours turnedout, I'd love to hear! I just taped guides on a Driggs and casted it...whatacool action!! I'm curious to see how she fishes! Rob Hoffhines from steveobg@nacs.net Fri May 1 21:32:14 1998 Subject: What have I found? Hi, Folks,I recently purchased a rod for the ridiculous sum of $20.00 from anantique store.The varnish looked downright terrible, all cracked and bubbled. It had aPfleuger 707 automatic fly reel attached to it, and, since I have ayoung neighbor boy that wants to learn fly fishing, but can't use hisleft hand, I basically bought the reel to give to him.The rod, I thought was shot. missing the stripping guide, and at leastone (probably two) snake guide, frayed intermediate wraps, bad varnish,cork wasted away... well, it looked like hell.there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up thenickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing cronies(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideawhat this might be. I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofthis 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of afirst bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aline, I'll have learned a lot from it. Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O -----I seem to have misplaced my tagline.----- from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 1 21:34:32 1998 Subject: Re: Re: HELP!! I have to agree with Darryl-the "don't touch the power fibers" mystique issomuch B.S. When we plane a taper we're cutting across power fibers, if wekeepnodes we have a discontinuity. I f the culm has ample fibers planing theoutside won't hurt a thing IM not so HO.HANK. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Fri May 1 21:34:40 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! Yep, .035 " from rennyg@ibm.net Fri May 1 21:43:20 1998 out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id CAA80802 for; Sat, 2 May 1998 02:43:16 GMT Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Darryl, I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, such asan oak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example, cottonwood,was atleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cell structurethanthefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, my questionhereiswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo with smallercells,nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given your point ofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestionseemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I am curiouswhetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn'tapplyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no more than.005fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from gwr@seanet.com Fri May 1 22:06:20 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id UAA07004 for; Subject: Re: What have I found? Hi Steve, If I've got my history right ( from Sinclair & others), the Cross Rod Co.of Lynn, Mass. was formed in 1920 by a Mr. Forsyth & a Mr. Cross. WesJordan (later of Orvis fame) was their rodmaker. In '26 CR Co. waspurchased by South Bend. South Bend continued to issue rods under theCrossname in Indiana. Presumably since your rod is marked Lynn, Mass., it wasproduced between '21 & '26, though it is possible that reelseats sostampedwere still used from the new headquarters in Indiana until the parts ranout.Value? Hommel suggests, for an 8 1/2' 3piece 2-tip "Forsyth" trout rod(no Tournament models mentioned), a value of $55.00 for a poor conditionrodand up to nearly $300.00 in mint condition. Mint restored might see avalueof $225.00- $250.00. At any rate, it sounds like an excellent project rodwith a bit of history behind it.If you don't already have it, you should consider picking up a copy ofSinclair's "Bamboo Rod Restoration Handbook."Best of luck, Russgwr@seanet.comhttp://www.goldenwitch.com -----Original Message----- Subject: What have I found? Hi, Folks,I recently purchased a rod for the ridiculous sum of $20.00 from anantique store.The varnish looked downright terrible, all cracked and bubbled. It had aPfleuger 707 automatic fly reel attached to it, and, since I have ayoung neighbor boy that wants to learn fly fishing, but can't use hisleft hand, I basically bought the reel to give to him.> The rod, I thoughtwas shot. missing the stripping guide, and at leastone (probably two) snake guide, frayed intermediate wraps, bad varnish,cork wasted away... well, it looked like hell.there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up thenickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing cronies(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideawhat this might be. I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofthis 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of afirst bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aline, I'll have learned a lot from it. Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O -----I seem to have misplaced my tagline.----- from flyfisher@nextdim.com Fri May 1 22:14:22 1998 (SMTPD32-4.03) id AE2D1E0248; Fri, 01 May 1998 20:08:29 PST Subject: Re: What have I found? Steve you have a rod that was made during the time that Wes Jordanworked don't lose the markings.-----Original Message----- Subject: What have I found? Hi, Folks,I recently purchased a rod for the ridiculous sum of $20.00 from anantique store.The varnish looked downright terrible, all cracked and bubbled. It had aPfleuger 707 automatic fly reel attached to it, and, since I have ayoung neighbor boy that wants to learn fly fishing, but can't use hisleft hand, I basically bought the reel to give to him.The rod, I thought was shot. missing the stripping guide, and at leastone (probably two) snake guide, frayed intermediate wraps, bad varnish,cork wasted away... well, it looked like hell.there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up thenickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing cronies(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideawhat this might be. I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofthis 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of afirst bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aline, I'll have learned a lot from it. Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O -----I seem to have misplaced my tagline.----- from anglport@con2.com Fri May 1 22:37:33 1998 Subject: Re: Heat Gun At 09:56 PM 5/1/98 EDT, you wrote:Art, I have both, have had the black one for about 15 years and it stillworks.Bret Sounds like a good buy to me. The guy at Steinel (who was so helpful whenIwanted to modify my Steinel gun) warned me strongly against thenon- Milwaukee Tool Co model but the price is too good to just ignorewithoutfurther investigation!Thanks from Nodewrrior@aol.com Fri May 1 23:45:55 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers On Thursday, May 7th at 8:00 PM there will be a gathering of rodmakers intheChicago area at Coren's Rod and Reel (773)631-5202 in Norwood hts. Justaninformal meet-n-greet and share ideas, cast rods etc. Call Eric HeckmanatCoren's for more details. Rob Hoffhines from flyfisher@cmix.com Fri May 1 23:52:08 1998 Subject: RE:What have I found? RO> there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up theRO>nickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.RO>Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"RO> Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing croniesRO>(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideaRO>what this might be. RO> I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofRO>this 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of aRO>first bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aRO>line, I'll have learned a lot from it. Steve, I popped this off the best online web site for production rodinformation - Dick Spurr's "The Classic Angler" url:http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm I don't see any 8'6" tournament rods listed. If you are correct in the major rod list people. Too bad you stripped it already - this might be a"special" rod and a collector would've wanted it "as-is". Prices shownare all based upon a rod in excellent original condition. See the URL Thank Dick Spurr for the url too, Don Burns from kgabd@clsp.uswest.net Sat May 2 00:16:02 1998 Subject: Re: What have I found? Steve-o wrote: Hi, Folks,I recently purchased a rod for the ridiculous sum of $20.00 from anantique store.The varnish looked downright terrible, all cracked and bubbled. It had aPfleuger 707 automatic fly reel attached to it, and, since I have ayoung neighbor boy that wants to learn fly fishing, but can't use hisleft hand, I basically bought the reel to give to him.The rod, I thought was shot. missing the stripping guide, and at leastone (probably two) snake guide, frayed intermediate wraps, bad varnish,cork wasted away... well, it looked like hell.there is no decal or signature on the rod, but, in cleaning up thenickle/silver reel seat, I found the legend, "Cross Rod and Tackle Co.Lynn, Mass. The Forsyth tournament"Now, I've never heard of it, and neither have my two fishing cronies(Dad, and Gramps) So I was wondering if anyone on the list has any ideawhat this might be. I stripped the old varnish, and, if I can get the twists and set out ofthis 8.5' three piece, I feel I will have an excellent prospect of afirst bamboo rod. LOTS of work left to do, but even if it never throws aline, I'll have learned a lot from it. Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O -----I seem to have misplaced my tagline.-----Steve, according to Mike Sinclair's book, Cross Rod & Tackle was founded Bend bought the company in 1926 and acquired Jordan in the deal. SouthBend rods were priced to compete with production rods (Montague, H-Ietc) Cross rods were higher quality to compete with Gramger, Thomas,Edwards, etc. Cross rods disappeared from South Bend's line after WWII.Good luck. Kevin. from irish-george@worldnet.att.net Sat May 2 00:30:56 1998 mtigwc04.worldnet.att.net(post.office MTA v2.0 0613 ) with ESMTP id AAA8991 Subject: Re: Home grown When I was growing up in Southeastern Michigan, I planted some bamboothatan aunt gave me. (It definitely was NOT the stuff bamboo rods are madefrom.)The owner of the apartments I lived in tried to get rid of the stuff...itthrived in spiteof being dug up, having salt and battery acid thrown on it, and probably ahost ofother attempts as well. Too bad it wasn't Tonkin or even Calcutta. Itonly got toabout 1/2" diameter with a very distinct "groove" running down everysinglestalk itever grew and was thin-walled and weak. But VERY hardy! George Bourke ----------From: C.J. Wohlford Subject: Re: Home grownDate: Friday, May 01, 1998 2:03 PM Last year I read an article in the paper (Sunday Real Estate section)about acouple that bought a house in the SF Bay area that had a stand of bamboogrowing in the back yard. To make a long story short they were having ahell ofa time getting rid of it. They cut it down, it came back, they poisonedit, itcame back, they dug up the roots, it came back, they even brought in abulldozer and dug up the whole backyard and it still came back. I guesstheroot systems are quite extensive. Sometimes you just can't kill abeautifulthing. Personally, I would love a stand of Bamboo in my backyard. Best Regards,Chris Wohlford from flyrod@artistree.com Sat May 2 01:18:42 1998 XAA06309 Subject: Re: What have I found? Steve,Please do post the taper when you can. I would love to see it. Thanks.Chris Wohlford Any info would be appreciated, and I'll try to borrow a mic to get thetaper if anyone wants it. Regards,-Steve-O from SalarFly@aol.com Sat May 2 01:55:09 1998 Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber I didn't say there was _no_ difference. This is what I said: Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. You lost me with your comparison between oak and cottonwood.A better comparison would be between larger cells and smallercells within the same piece of oak. Darryl **************************************************************************I recall reading somewhere that the reason a slow growing tree, such asan oak,produced a wood of much higher strength than, for example, cottonwood,was atleast in part because oak has a much denser, i.e., smaller cell structure than thefaster growing but larger cell structure of cottonwood. Thus, myquestion here iswhy would one not expect the denser outer fibers of bamboo withsmaller cells, nothave a greater strength (power) than the inner fibers? Given your pointofkeeping things in perspective, with scraping no more than .005, thequestion seemsmore hypothetical than of any consequence, but, nonetheless, I amcurious whetherI may have missed something or whether the cell size principle justdoesn'tapplyto bamboo.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... First let me put this in perspective. This is scraping no more than.005 fromthe outside of a strip ( .010 from total diameter). You're fooling yourself if you think the extreme outer .005 is alot stronger than the layers under it. Sure there is a gradationbut the inner power fiber isn't extra weak and the outer fiber extrastrong. Truth is there is hardly any difference in strength betweenouter fiber and inner fiber. Notice I am saying inner and outerpower fiber. This is 100 percent power fiber - no pith between fibers. Darryl Hayashida --~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Renny GreenmunEducational Services Program4218 NE 115th St.Seattle, WA 98125-5853 Voice - (206) 368-8922 FAX - (206) 440- 9431~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 03:33:29 1998 Sat, 2 May 1998 16:33:17 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... out, I'd love to hear! I just taped guides on a Driggs and casted it...whatacool action!! I'm curious to see how she fishes! Rob Hoffhines Like a dream, I'll bet. /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 03:44:37 1998 Sat, 2 May 1998 16:44:30 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japan On Fri, 1 May 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Tony,I agree-there's room for all of us in here and the english teacherobviously enjoys being "the little grasshopper" .I'd have given my rightarmto have been in his shoes some years ago (well, maybe not the wholearm).Hank. I envy him a little. To behave in that way here in Australia would be certifiable but it's nice to get realy wraped up in something. That's something you just can't do once you're armed with stress curves and a mechanical perspective of the western approach. Actually, I don't see the scientific approach as being that different to the mystical one but from a differnt angle.Basicaly I think it's a shame to rain on somebody's parade and there are plenty of people around who'd wonder what planet we cane rod makers are from regardless as to if we just collect tapers we'll never make or chant a mantra while sharpening a plane iron :-) Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from bc@fyptt.fyptt.zjpta.net.cn Sat May 2 04:08:24 1998 SVR4) Subject: Re: Home grown List, Some people has asked me where he can buy good quality tonkin cane forflyrod making. Here I highly recommend Andy's cane to you.The qualityof his cane is really good, no slash marks, good drying and goodcolor.His pole is direct from the Chinese supplier, the only oneresource in China, who can specially select and process such Tonkin canewith no slash marks for flyrod. It is difficult to find out big tonkincane with no slash mark in tonkin originating place after the reform ofChinese farming system. To secure good quality cane, Andy always inperson come to China to select cane one by one and ship the container. Contact Andy at: E-mail:royera@sprynet.com(206) 463-3771 ph(206) 463-3012 fx Cao QungenTel/Fax:++86 571 3341953 http://www.bamboo.org/abs/BambooChinaService.html from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 06:15:51 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0BC44200BC; Sat, 02 May 1998 05:17:16 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers At 12:45 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:On Thursday, May 7th at 8:00 PM there will be a gathering of rodmakers intheChicago area at Coren's Rod and Reel (773)631-5202 in Norwood hts. Justaninformal meet-n-greet and share ideas, cast rods etc. Call Eric HeckmanatCoren's for more details. Rob Hoffhines Rob;That figures, I move away from the accursed city, and the next thing Iknowthere is a rodmakers gathering there. Still not enough to get me to goback.Have fun! John Channer(now living in)Durango,Co. from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 06:23:24 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A28044D00BC; Sat, 02 May 1998 05:24:48 MDT Subject: Flamed rods Hi guys;I am working on my first flamed rod and I have a question. Should I goahead and heat treat it when I get it roughed out? Will this be too muchheating and make the cane brittle, or is it a can't/won't hurt thing? Ilike the fact that heat treating finishes straightening, but I don't wantto damage the cane. TIA for any suggestions. John Channer from RMargiotta@aol.com Sat May 2 06:35:22 1998 Subject: Blackening snake guides -- Clemens Has anyone used the black snakes that Dale Clemens sells? He claims thattheywon't groove "like regular black snakes". Cost is $0.95 per snake. --Rich from SealRite@aol.com Sat May 2 07:12:24 1998 Subject: Re: Bamboo Entrepreneurs Bill Gates visited an old firm called Xerox in the late seventies or earlyeighties. He was contracted by Apple computer to write a new opertaingsystem.Xerox had terminated and shelved a project designed to automate theworkplace. Xeros's project had computers that had push button icons, draganddrop file structure, something called e mail, etc. It was designed by abunchof "futurists" that had a vision, unfortunately it was not shared by Xerox. Bill basically stole the whole concept of windows from steveobg@nacs.net Sat May 2 07:16:00 1998 Subject: Re: What have I found? flyfisher@cmix.com wrote: Steve, I popped this off the best online web site for production rodinformation - Dick Spurr's "The Classic Angler" url:http://www.gorp.com/bamboo.htm 9*' 5 oz. Model 170 Tournament $3009' 4 oz. Model 159 Tournament $325 I don't see any 8'6" tournament rods listed. If you are correct in the major rod list people. Too bad you stripped it already - this might be a"special" rod and a collector would've wanted it "as-is". Prices shownare all based upon a rod in excellent original condition. See the URL Thank Dick Spurr for the url too, Don Burns Don, and all who repliedThanks for the reply, Those prices certainly made me blink...However, I don't think THIS rod will go up for sale, as my son (12 Yrs) hasexpressed an interest in it. -Like he could pry it out of my hands with acrowbar.Now I have to go see if I misread my tape measure... Regards,-Steve-O ---Looking foreward to building a bamboo rod from the begining...--- from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 07:54:02 1998 Sat, 2 May 1998 20:53:54 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Fri, 1 May 1998, Golden Witch wrote: Gary, You need to buy Jack Howell's book "The Lovely Reed." He's got asection of about 50 tapers, most miked out by Daryll Whitehead, and theyinclude a 7'6" Gillum among a total of 10 Gillum tapers. I'd just give youthe taper, but I don't know where I'd stand with Jack & his publisher if Idid. Anyway, the book is worth every penny of it cost, probably more. CallBarry Serviente at The Angler's Art to order a copy. Phone: (800) 848-1020. Read & enjoy, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from gwr@seanet.com Sat May 2 08:20:48 1998 mx.seanet.com(8.8.8/Seanet-8.7.3) with SMTP id GAA15404 for; Subject: Re: In Search Of... Tony, They don't have one listed in the (older) catalog I've got so I checkedwith a few search engines but still no luck. They do have a fax (717)243-8603, but nothing as quick & inexpensive as the internet. You canreachthem by snail at:The Angler's ArtP.O. Box 148Plainfield, PA 17081 Russ Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 08:39:30 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A26739600E4; Sat, 02 May 1998 07:40:55 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 06:16 AM 5/2/98 -0700, you wrote:Tony, They don't have one listed in the (older) catalog I've got so I checkedwith a few search engines but still no luck. They do have a fax (717)243-8603, but nothing as quick & inexpensive as the internet. You canreachthem by snail at:The Angler's ArtP.O. Box 148Plainfield, PA 17081 Russ Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer from Fallcreek9@aol.com Sat May 2 08:43:34 1998 Subject: Re: Flamed rods John: I have always used normal heat treating procedures on my flamedcane.Has had no adverse results that I can see.Regards,Richard Tyree from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat May 2 10:00:30 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sat,2May 1998 11:02:07 -0400 Subject: Re: Heat Gun I enjoyed talking with you last night. I hope I answered all of your questions. Take care, Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from 76250.1771@compuserve.com Sat May 2 11:05:19 1998 Subject: What have I found? Steve-The Cross Rod & Tackle Co. started in 1920 with Wes Jordan as headrodbuilder. They made three models available in different sizes andconfigurations...the Cross, the Forsyth, and the Essex. In 1924 The Crosssaltwater rod was double built but the Forsyth and Essex were singlebuilt.The Forsyth was the more expensive of the singlebuilt rods and thetournament models built for distance casting. The bamboo under the reelseat was lightened and the reel seat made out of very thin nickelsilver tosave weight so as not to exceed the weight limit for tournament casting.The Cross co. was sold to South Bend in the mid 20's. I don't think SouthBend used the Forsyth name on the rods they made under the Cross label.Soyou probably have a Wes Jordan built 8.5' designed for distance casting from the early 1920's. I'd guess it would restore to a nice or at leastinteresting rod. Regards, Dennisp.s. find a copy of "Wes Jordan-Profile Of A Rodmaker" for a completehistory of Wes and Cross rods. from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat May 2 11:58:22 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sat,2May 1998 13:00:08 -0400 Subject: Re: HELP!! Did you ever get the scraper? I sent it out a while back.Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836-7558 (607) 277- 9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat May 2 12:07:32 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id MAA05045 for Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers Nodewrrior wrote: On Thursday, May 7th at 8:00 PM there will be a gathering of rodmakersin theChicago area at Coren's Rod and Reel (773)631-5202 in Norwood hts.Just aninformal meet-n-greet and share ideas, cast rods etc. Call Eric HeckmanatCoren's for more details. Rob HoffhinesRob, I heard about this meeting and called thereyesterday(Fri.)Bill told me that they would start at 6:30 PM.Double check with Eric. I'm looking forward to meeting some of the local guys and sharing experiences. Hope to see ya there, Ed Miller from rennyg@ibm.net Sat May 2 12:21:00 1998 out2.ibm.net (8.8.5/8.6.9) with ESMTP id RAA39330 for; Sat, 2 May 1998 17:20:57 GMT Subject: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Sorry about the confusion with the analogy using two types of wood. Therationalebehind using different species of wood was that, unlike bamboo, itappears thatdifferent cell sizes in wood are pretty much randomly distributedthroughout thematerial. Thus one would expect wood strength of a given species to notto varymuch from one area to another. Bamboo, on the other hand, even within thepowerfiber area, exhibits a distinct change in cell size from interior toexterior,with a much higher density (smaller cells) toward the outside of the culm. I'm undoubtedly splitting more hairs here than cane, so I apologize for thebandwidth.Renny SalarFly wrote: ... You lost me with your comparison between oak and cottonwood.A better comparison would be between larger cells and smallercells within the same piece of oak. from cbogart@shentel.net Sat May 2 12:21:16 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... TonyTry Amazon.com - got my copy from them this week. Chris On Sat, 2 May 1998 20:53:52 +0800 (WST), Tony Young wrote: On Fri, 1 May 1998, Golden Witch wrote: Gary, You need to buy Jack Howell's book "The Lovely Reed." He's got asection of about 50 tapers, most miked out by Daryll Whitehead, andtheyinclude a 7'6" Gillum among a total of 10 Gillum tapers. I'd just giveyouthe taper, but I don't know where I'd stand with Jack & his publisher if Idid. Anyway, the book is worth every penny of it cost, probably more. CallBarry Serviente at The Angler's Art to order a copy. Phone: (800) 848-1020. Read & enjoy, Russ Goodinggwr@seanet.com Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Regards Chris from rmoon@ida.net Sat May 2 12:39:17 1998 Subject: Thanks To all of those of you who contributed some while ago to the thread onblade angles. I guess that even an old dog can learn new tricks. Ihave traditionally set my blade angle about 25 degrees, and waspleasantly surprised when the hock blade made planing even easier. Acouple of days ago, I ground one of my stock blades to about 32degrees. It performs even better than the hock. I simply cannotunderstand why such a miute difference in blade angle can cause such aradical difference in the ease of planing. To all of you again mysincere thanks. Ralph Moon from jlintvet@clarityconnect.com Sat May 2 13:00:53 1998 mail.clarityconnect.com with SMTP (Eudora Internet Mail Server 2.1); Sat,2May 1998 14:02:40 -0400 Subject: Re: Blackening Snake Guides Wow...I have never had a problem with the H&H guides. Then again, I haven't been doing this all that long. I will have to take a look at the bronze guide on of these days. Right now I am trying to figure out what snake guides one would use with a N/S Mildrum stripping guide. Jon Lintvet12B College Circle Ithaca, NY 14850(800) 836- 7558 (607) 277-9781 www.clarityconnect.com/webpages4/jlintvet/ from LECLAIR123@aol.com Sat May 2 13:14:55 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... I just bought a new book that I think is a great book.It is called Classic &Antique Tackle by A.J. cambell. It gives the complete history of rods and reels from the begining to todays tackle and builders.It is very interesting reading. Thebook sells for $50.00 ,But can be purchased from Amazon.com books for$35.00. Dave L. from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat May 2 13:28:00 1998 Subject: Re: Re: What have I found? Cross rod There is a gentelman here in so. Bend that had two Cross rods in brand newnever fished condition I bought and sold one but I think he still has theother one.bret from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat May 2 13:40:08 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA44932 Subject: Sv: Flamed rods NAA18000 Hi guys;I am working on my first flamed rod and I have a question. Should I goahead and heat treat it when I get it roughed out? Will this be too muchheating and make the cane brittle, or is it a can't/won't hurt thing? Ilike the fact that heat treating finishes straightening, but I don't wantto damage the cane. TIA for any suggestions. John Channer John, we are talking religion here. I'll risc my neck in saying: Go ahead,flameon. PHY flamed his rods until almost black in places, and from the 2 PHYrodsI've tried, it works. I've always flamed rods on the outside alone, butsome,also before splitting into strips, use the heatgun on the inside as well.Forstraightening, use the heatgun, as it won't burn the bamboo. You could gonodeless, saving Yourself a lot of time, since straightening is reducedconsiderably. If You flame too much, make a carbon rod instead regards Carsten from emiller257@dataflo.net Sat May 2 13:55:58 1998 wddataflo.dataflo.net (8.8.5/8.7.3) with SMTP id OAA07959 for Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers john channer wrote: At 12:45 AM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:On Thursday, May 7th at 8:00 PM there will be a gathering of rodmakersin theChicago area at Coren's Rod and Reel (773)631-5202 in Norwood hts.Just aninformal meet-n-greet and share ideas, cast rods etc. Call Eric HeckmanatCoren's for more details. Rob Hoffhines Rob;That figures, I move away from the accursed city, and the next thing Iknowthere is a rodmakers gathering there. Still not enough to get me to goback.Have fun! John Channer(now living in)Durango,Co.John, what didnt you like about Chicago? Traffic? Road rage?Pollution? Too far to drive to find trout? Expensive housing? Lousy weather? At least its only a few hrs. to Wisc. and Michigan. Ed M. from rmoon@ida.net Sat May 2 13:59:25 1998 Subject: Re: Sv: Flamed rods Carsten, Tell me more about those carbon rods. The time I tried tomake them in my steel pipe blow torch scientific heat treater, theyburst into flame when I opened the plug. Did I do something wrong?Ralph from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 14:13:29 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0A93D500DA; Sat, 02 May 1998 13:14:49 MDT Subject: Re: Sv: Flamed rods OAA20327 At 08:40 PM 5/2/98 +0200, you wrote: Hi guys;I am working on my first flamed rod and I have a question. Should I goahead and heat treat it when I get it roughed out? Will this be too muchheating and make the cane brittle, or is it a can't/won't hurt thing? Ilike the fact that heat treating finishes straightening, but I don't wantto damage the cane. TIA for any suggestions. John Channer John, we are talking religion here. I'll risc my neck in saying: Go ahead,flame on. PHY flamed his rods until almost black in places, and from the 2PHY rods I've tried, it works. I've always flamed rods on the outsidealone, but some, also before splitting into strips, use the heatgun on theinside as well. For straightening, use the heatgun, as it won't burn thebamboo. You could go nodeless, saving Yourself a lot of time, sincestraightening is reduced considerably. If You flame too much, make a carbon rod instead regards Carsten Carsten;I don't know what kind of heat gun you are using, but my cheapo 2 speedwill turn anything flammable into charcoal if you're not carefull, I'veburned thru more than one strip with it. It is still better than an alcohollamp. John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 14:28:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A4133FB00DA; Sat, 02 May 1998 13:29:23 MDT Subject: Chicago rodmakers Ed;All of the above, plus.Don't forget the wonderful gangs and non- existentcrime rate, it even followed us out to the corn fields between Chi andRockford. I lived in Chicago area all my life, until 3 years ago when wecame out here on vacation, went home, fixed up the 120 yr old wreck, putiton the market and came out here to find a job.Now we're Rocky MountainHighand will never come down, its great!Only one problem; too many rivers andnot enough time.Flip someone off on the Edens for me, but don't forget toduck if they shoot back. John Channer from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat May 2 14:33:23 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago rodmakers John, I ran some SOB off on the Dan Ryan for you a while back.Bret from WayneCatt@aol.com Sat May 2 15:41:33 1998 Subject: TTBBBQ IV & Rodmakers At Grayrock 98 TTBBBQ IV. The flier advertises the Makers Rod and explains the details ofTTBBBQ. I have been asked by a few list members about the get togetherand anycost factors. So here is the scoop. The $50 TTBBBQ fee for the Rodmakersgroup covers the cost of BOTH events TTBBBQ IV and Rodmakers AtGrayrock. TheRodmakers will still be having the Thursday night cookout at WhisperingPines(The Love Bugs - aka Frank Love's) - Friday night RoadKill Cookoff andHomeBrew Beer Taste - and commemorative aprons as usual.TTBBBQ is a fund raiser as well as a social event - last year there wasnearly $4000 raised for environment groups - a part of the admission feegoesto this end. Those involved in organizing TTBBBQ appreciate theCommitmentthat the Rodmakers have made with the Makers Rod Raffle and offeredthis.Another offering is that those wanting to bring their wives and kids toTTBBBQand Rodmakers At Grayrock the end cost for each will be $25 ($50 feewith $25instant cash rebate). On the organizational end the single fee structure will save several ofus some grief. Vic Edwards is taking registrations - TTBBBQ IV c\o VicEdwards, POBox 116, Grayling,MI 49738. For those that know that they areattending we would ask that you forward Vic the money by May 15, 1998 -ANDplease attach a note saying Rodmaker as well.Now, If you don't wish to be part of TTBBBQ IV and yet want to come toRodmakers At Grayrock 98 - JUST SHOW UP. There will be a bucket to put afewbucks in to help cover costs. Vic, Steve & et el are working hard to plan a special evening forTTBBBQIV - there will be the Makers Rod raffle which I'm sure will be exciting.As (tenative) is as follows Friday (June 19) Saturday(June 20)Fish or Make rodsSunday(June 21)Fish the Dead Stream Swamp - Beaver Pond Hunt - Bring Compass orGPS Monday(June 22)Fish or make rodsTuesday(June 23)Fish the Jordan - Camp out on the Jordan - Camp site on state land inheadwaters - bring marshmellows - campfire songs? Wednesday(June 24)Hands on workshop - culm to frist tapered strip (group 1)Fish the Jordan (am) - return to Clubhouse Thursday(June 25)Hands on Workshop - culm to first tapered strip (group 2)Evening - Cookout @ Frank's - Fish the Manistee Friday(June 26)Demarest Talk on BambooMill demos - working to get Morgan and Bellinger Sharpening table - a display of all stones holders and discussionIRS - Excise Tax TalkFlee Market & Swap - Sell - Trade - Swap - Dicker (no Ginsu knives)Afternoon hands on things (volunteers needed)Rodmakers Challenge CourseEast Branch Tribute to JJ - 5:00Evening Rodmakers RoadKill CookOff & HomeBrew Beer Taste Saturday(June 27)Round Table (all involved)Glue a ThonFinish a thonAdvance Hands on Break for TTBBBQ IV at 5:00 If you have any questions or comments about events or somethingspecificthat you would like to see or do please contact me - e mail -waynecatt@aol.com or phone 616-675-5894 (eve) Wayne from sats@gte.net Sat May 2 15:50:38 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! PAA24282 Are we talking about making a new rod, or altering an alreadyexisting rod? With a new rod, we can remove the outer enamel and go into the power fibers and still preserve the planned diameter of the blank. With an already existing rod, the only thingyou can do is reduce the diameter. In that case, yes you are goingto alter the action or line wt the rod casts. Lets figure out what weare doing here before we go any further. Exactly. Once a section has been "glued up" it's got a taper; diameter;line- wt.; action; and about 10 other ingredients. Removing cain from thereonout will change, to some degree, everyone of those factors. What happens to a rod section when you remove .001 from the outside ofthatsection? Will it bend easier? Will it break easier? Will it slow the action? Will it change the rod wt? These are questions that I don't think anyone has answered. I've neverseen itdiscussed here. I do know that the old masters would change the actions of rods to findnewtapers by taking a few .000 off the outside at one place or another. I remember, you telling of changing the "feel" of a rod, by removing a few.000,to make it roll cast better. I've been testing the results of removing cain from the outside (nevermorethen .005) to see what changes took place. I haven't had time to do enoughresearch to give any good answers yet. If anyone on the list can shed anylight on this, I'd be interested to hear it. --Terry KirkpatrickSafety Harbor, Fl.(Old Tampa Bay)sats@gte.net from cmj@post11.tele.dk Sat May 2 15:51:56 1998 0000 (Netscape Mail Server v2.02) with SMTP id AAA57358 Subject: Sv: Sv: Flamed rods printable to 8bit by wugate.wustl.edu idPAA24372 Carsten, Tell me more about those carbon rods. The time I tried tomake them in my steel pipe blow torch scientific heat treater, theyburst into flame when I opened the plug. Did I do something wrong?Ralph Ralph, dont open your steel pipe blow torch scientific heat treater untileverything have cooled down. Lotsa heat plus oxygen means fire from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 17:10:40 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AA3342300C8; Sat, 02 May 1998 16:12:03 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago rodmakers At 03:32 PM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:John, I ran some SOB off on the Dan Ryan for you a while back.Bret Bret;I'm sure he had it coming to him. Out here about all we have to deal withon the roads are deer, elk, and Winnebagos. The deer and elk are smarterthan most drivers in Chicago, and the ones on the North Shore are evenworse.Winnebagos are only a problem between Memorial Day and Labor Day.Igladly leave to you my share of the traffic jambs. John Channer from iank@nelson.planet.org.nz Sat May 2 17:21:07 1998 ; Sun, 3 May 1998 10:21:00 +1200 Subject: Re: In Search Of... I would endorse Dave's comments . A very interesting book and veryaccessible via Amazon even to the more remote ( and desirable ) parts oftheplanet . A lot of the information is USA based but more then enough in the book forme to consider it excellent buying as a souce of information on both reelsand rods . Iank At 02:14 PM 2/05/98 EDT, you wrote:I just bought a new book that I think is a great book.It is called Classic &Antique Tackle by A.J. cambell. It gives the complete history of rods and reels from the begining to todays tackle and builders.It is very interesting reading.Thebook sells for $50.00 ,But can be purchased from Amazon.com books for$35.00. Dave L. Ian Kearney phone 0064 03 5445556104 Champion Road Fax 0064 03 5440374Richmond New Zealand email iank@nelson.planet.org.nz from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat May 2 19:15:10 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers John,This will be my first summer away from the Aspen music festival in 7years. Imay be joining you in leaving this trout desert.Any good orchestras in Durango? Rob Hoffhines from channer@hubwest.com Sat May 2 19:55:13 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A0AC5CB00B6; Sat, 02 May 1998 18:56:12 MDT Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers At 08:14 PM 5/2/98 EDT, you wrote:John,This will be my first summer away from the Aspen music festival in 7years. Imay be joining you in leaving this trout desert.Any good orchestras in Durango? Rob Hoffhines Rob;My daughter plays flute and oboe in the DHS band and orchestra, so thatsthe main one I know of, but I have heard that the San Juan Symphony isverygood. I have also heard the Fort Lewis College orchestra and they aregood,also, but I get the impression that you are a proffessional, so that'sprobably not much use to you. Try Denver, but live up in the mountainsaway from the city. John Channer from Canerods@aol.com Sat May 2 20:41:34 1998 Subject: Re: Blackening snake guides -- Clemens In a message dated 98-05-02 07:39:39 EDT, you write: Rich, No. But, I believe Clemens buys lots of their stuff and relabel it as their own.IE Clemens cork restorer vs the U40 stuff. Therefore, a total seat-of-the- pants guess is that they're Pacific Bay guides. I've been thinking about ordering a few myself - just to test my theory. IMHO, Don Burns from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat May 2 21:05:22 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod Dear Chris It's an idea with merit: at least I hope it is, as it's one on which I'vespent some time in recent years. There are many old mediocre rods whichwillnever have much value and need a rebuild anyway so, like, why not? I justhope we don't destroy all the good old nine-footers because shorter rodsarede rigeur right now- some of the long ones are great, and will do thingstheshorter ones can't. It's like violins- and Patrick Coffey will bear me out on this, I'm sure.Guys like Stradivari, Guarneri and Bergonzi made fiddles with short necks,elegant ornamentation and subtle dynamic nuance to best express theBaroquemusic of their day. Along comes the Romantic era and virtually all the good old master fiddlesgetliterally butchered to make them usable for the louder, more dynamicworks ofcats like Beethoven and Wagner. Even today, when an old, original violinsurfaces on the market, most people will automatically splice on a new,longerneck, rebrace it and "update" it because that makes it more valuable to amodern musician. But now there is a greater appreciation for older music, with RenaissanceandBaroque ensembles appearing all over the world, and there are a lot ofpeoplewho would kill for a really original Strad. Unfortunately though, theydon'texist. Actually, I think there is one viola, but that is only because itresides in a major museum and probably can't be sold. Sorry about that. Meanwhile, back at the planing form... My suggestion is to start on the lower section(s) first, get the generalflexabout like you want it, then do whatever it is you think would improve thetip, rather than just thin the entire length of the rod right off the bat. Thelatter method will, likely as not, produce a result you don't like and can'teasily remedy. And be sure to use the planing form, to ensure that the splines come outrelatively even. All the best,Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat May 2 21:10:00 1998 Subject: Re: Tournament Casting This is a little different from the current thread but... A few days ago, somebody was talking about tapers for Spey rods. I've got a good one, a thirteen-foot Gale, and I'd be happy to supply thetaper if anyone is interested. Davy from Ragnarig@aol.com Sat May 2 21:18:12 1998 Subject: sharkskin Is anybody familiar with an abrasive made by Sandvik called "Sharkskin"orsomething like that? It's a thin self-adhesive metal sheet with a uniform pattern of pin- prickswhich do the sanding. I picked up a couple sheets of coarse-grain but Iwonder if they also make fine. Has anybody used this for rodmaking? Any impressions/observations? Once this stuff is stuck to a level block, it'll almost level like a plane. Davy from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 21:20:05 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 10:19:29 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... Russ,thanks for that. Tony On Sat, 2 May 1998, Golden Witch wrote: Tony, They don't have one listed in the (older) catalog I've got so I checkedwith a few search engines but still no luck. They do have a fax (717)243-8603, but nothing as quick & inexpensive as the internet. You canreachthem by snail at:The Angler's ArtP.O. Box 148Plainfield, PA 17081 Russ Russ,Does The Angler's Art have an email address? Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 21:51:43 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 10:51:31 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... /***** snip'd bit's re The lovely Reed and it's availability *******/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer I've seen it listed at Amazom.com for $US35.00 but they don't yet have stocks. Hate to mention anything as crass as money but the puney $AUST makes that a $AUST 25 (approx) dollar diff in the price. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 21:53:58 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 10:53:28 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sat, 2 May 1998, Chris Bogart wrote: TonyTry Amazon.com - got my copy from them this week. Chris I tried them yesterday but they listed it as not in stock. Guess they haven't updated it yet. Thanks, I'll give my VISA a thrashing right now. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 21:59:33 1998 Subject: Re: Re: HELP!! I did-thanks, Jon.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 21:59:36 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Japan Hey, TonyI didn't know you blokes were so uptight about emotion-heck, I wascertifiable the day I was born and haven't improved one iota since.Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 21:59:52 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Scraping Power Fiber Renny,If you are seeing a definate gradation in power fiber within the areathatwill constitute the rod you wish to plane find a better culm and use thatculm for a lighter rod.Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 22:00:04 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Flamed rods John,I don't use a heat gun to flame -I use a standard propane torch on mySTRIPS before planing-my 2 stage heat gun would light up the cane unlessI'mvery careful, which I ain't.Regards Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 22:01:37 1998 Subject: Re: Flamed rods John and Carsten,I've flamed outside alone, inside-outside alone, and both with addedheattreatment. I, frankly ,can't quantify any difference although I did cook onetoo much and gave it to a young friend whose father took her to the BigHornwhere the guide broke it-(Ralph-note-that's not how to make carbon rods).Regards,Hank. from FISHWOOL@aol.com Sat May 2 22:01:48 1998 Subject: Re: Re: Sv: Flamed rods Raiph,Too much O2- use NO2 as a medium. ;-)Hank. from Nodewrrior@aol.com Sat May 2 22:17:53 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers John,Denver had a trombone aud. a few years ago, they picked the local guy...so Igotta wait for somebody to retire, get kicked out or die.My fiancee wants to know if your daughter wants a flute teacher.Figures the only thing I like nearly as much as music generates even less$$$! Rob from wrightj@babe.net.au Sat May 2 23:03:18 1998 Subject: Re: Chicago Rodmakers Nodewrrior wrote: John,This will be my first summer away from the Aspen music festival in 7years. Imay be joining you in leaving this trout desert.Any good orchestras in Durango? Rob HoffhinesSomehow I am receiving this mail I am not John from Rodmakers but did go see Billy Pate last night here in Asuteralia not sure about Durango or its orchestrasa from Grhghlndr@aol.com Sat May 2 23:32:26 1998 Subject: Re: Re: In Search Of... Pruett says they don't mind selling to us but they prefer to have thedealerssell it. I first ordered from them and found out Barry at anglers had it so Icalled Pruett to check availability and told them i did biz with Anglersandthey said i should buy from him. Guys I have had nothing but the bestservice from Anglers and I encourage you all to buy form them. 1-800-848- 1020.Bret from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sat May 2 23:37:10 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 12:36:58 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: Japan On Sat, 2 May 1998, FISHWOOL wrote: Hey, TonyI didn't know you blokes were so uptight about emotion-heck, I wascertifiable the day I was born and haven't improved one iota since.Hank. Hank,we're not realy, at least I'm not. Guess I just kind of enjoyed the exercise. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 00:05:06 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id AB5264800B6; Sat, 02 May 1998 23:06:26 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 10:51 AM 5/3/98 +0800, you wrote: /***** snip'd bit's re The lovely Reed and it's availability *******/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer I've seen it listed at Amazom.com for $US35.00 but they don't yet have stocks. Hate to mention anything as crass as money but the puney $AUST makes that a $AUST 25 (approx) dollar diff in the price. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony;Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. I wonderhow Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for the bumsteer. John Channer from SalarFly@aol.com Sun May 3 01:38:13 1998 Subject: Re: HELP!! In a message dated 5/2/98 1:54:03 PM Pacific Daylight Time, sats@gte.netwrites: Exactly. Once a section has been "glued up" it's got a taper; diameter;line- wt.; action; and about 10 other ingredients. Removing cain fromthereonout will change, to some degree, everyone of those factors. I believe the original poster was discussing planing splines, notaltering an existing rod, but when I make a rod I plan on removingat least .001 from the blank after it is glued up. Hence I make theblank that much oversize. Lately I have been planing off the enamelside of my splines for appearance before glue up. Haven't noticed any difference in strength, but a much improved appearance. What happens to a rod section when you remove .001 from the outside ofthatsection? Will it bend easier? Will it break easier? Will it slow the action? Will it change the rod wt? Yes to all the above, but depending on what the original rod was,maybe not much to even be noticed. A heavier line wt rod will beaffected less than a lighter line wt rod. An analysis usingstress curves will answer most of these questions. These are questions that I don't think anyone has answered. I've never seen itdiscussed here. Maybe not all at the same time, but it has been in one form oranother. I do know that the old masters would change the actions of rods to findnewtapers by taking a few .000 off the outside at one place or another. Yes, some did, they called it tuning the rod. I remember, you telling of changing the "feel" of a rod, by removing afew.000,to make it roll cast better. Yes to this also. One of my experimental tapers. I ended up removing.010 from a 10 inch section of the butt section. It was a drastic removalof material (at least I think so), to get any kind of discernable changein the action. I've been testing the results of removing cain from the outside (nevermorethen .005) to see what changes took place. I haven't had time to doenoughresearch to give any good answers yet. If anyone on the list can shedanylight on this, I'd be interested to hear it. I think we will have to start talking about percentages of removedmaterialto diameter to make any sense. .005 of bamboo removed closer to the tip will have a lot more effect than .005 removed near the handle. Again, an understanding of stress curves will help a great deal here. Darryl Hayashida from tyoung@perth.dialix.com.au Sun May 3 02:15:11 1998 Sun, 3 May 1998 15:14:43 +0800 (WST)(envelope- from tyoung) Subject: Re: In Search Of... On Sat, 2 May 1998, john channer wrote: At 10:51 AM 5/3/98 +0800, you wrote: /***** snip'd bit's re The lovely Reed and it's availability *******/ Guys;Why not order it direct from the publisher, Pruett Publishing? Cost is$50.00 from them, ph. # is 800-247-8224 John Channer I've seen it listed at Amazom.com for $US35.00 but they don't yet have stocks. Hate to mention anything as crass as money but the puney $AUST makes that a $AUST 25 (approx) dollar diff in the price. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ Tony;Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. Iwonderhow Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for the bumsteer. John Channer It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. Tony /***********************************************************************/Tony Younghttp://www.iinet.net.au/~mainpeak/flyrod.htmlThe Australian connection A computer without windows is like a fish without a bicycle /***********************************************************************/ from flyfisher@cmix.com Sun May 3 06:29:47 1998 Subject: Re: In Search Of... RO>> Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. IwondeRO>> how Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for the bumsteer.RO>>RO>> John Channer RO>It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. RO>Tony John, Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustments ever72.7 mm? from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 06:30:07 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A58B67600B6; Sun, 03 May 1998 05:31:23 MDT Subject: humblest apology Tony;I am bent over, please kick me. I should never respond right after theevening nap. My most humble apology.John Channer from channer@hubwest.com Sun May 3 07:28:12 1998 (SMTPD32-4.02c) id A32149F00D2; Sun, 03 May 1998 06:29:21 MDT Subject: Re: In Search Of... At 04:28 AM 5/3/98 -0600, you wrote: RO>> Hate to correct anyone's math, but its$15.00, which is still more. IwondeRO>> how Amazon can sell it cheaper than the publisher?Sorry for thebumsteer.RO>>RO>> John Channer RO>It's not $15 in AUSTRALIAN dollars. RO>Tony John, Tony's got those Australian "metric" dollars - you know - 5/8ths of areal one. Let's see, Canada's gone and converted to metric now too. Hey, theirdollar's now about 5/8ths too. Good grief - let's hope we don't ever convert. Don Burns PS - Besides - who's ever heard of a planing form with adjustments ever72.7 mm? Don;Metric is one new trick this old dog will resist to the bitter end. I am acarpenter and metric would be a big pain, besides, I make enough mistakeswith the system I am used to. I apologized to Tony for presuming tocorrecthis math, I sometimes forget that anyone in the world is better at maththan I am. Just checked out Amazon and ordered The Lovely Reed. I stilldon't understand how they can sell it cheaper than the publisher will.Also, if Pruett would rather have us buy thru distributors, then why put afull page add in the Bamboo Fly Rod with the price and an 800 number. John (confused by the world, as usual)Channer from sats@gte.net Sun May 3 09:11:37 1998 Subject: Re: Weakening a rod JAA05405 It's like violins- and Patrick Coffey will bear me out on this, I'm sure.Guys like Stradivari, Guarneri and Bergonzi made fiddles with shortnecks,elegant ornamentation and subtle dynamic nuance to best express theBaroquemusic of their day. Along comes the Romantic era and virtually all the good old masterfiddles getliterally butchered to make them usable for the louder, more dynamicworks ofcats like Beethoven and Wagner. I agree, and don't try to "shorten" a rod that has all pieces full length. It'slike making a hot-rod out of a perfectly maintained '32 ford. Once the topischopped it's hard to go back. However, there are plenty of rods out there with tips and mid sectionsthat arebroken (dare I say mangled) The glue may be letting go and the ferrulesare amess. In my opinion, they're candidates for experimentation. My suggestion is to start on the lower section(s) first, get the generalflexabout like you want it, then do whatever it is you think would improvethetip, rather than just thin the entire length of the rod right off the bat.Thelatter method will, likely as not, pro